#ubuntu-meeting 2005-02-12
<zul> hey pitti
<pitti> Hi zul, how's it going
<zul> good u?
<pitti> fine, thanks
<mdz> morning folks
<mdz> am I the only one who is unable to login to the website, and therefore edit the wiki?
<Keybuk> morning matt
<pitti> mdz: I added an USN today, worked fine
<Kamion> mdz: elmo fixed that earlier today, he said
<mdz> ah, so he did
<Kamion> it was broken for me this morning
<mdz> thanks, elmo
<sabdfl> hi all
<sivang> hey sabdfl 
<amu> hey sabdfl 
<mdz> first, is there anyone here who is going through the maintainer process, and needs tech board approval?
<mdz> I believe at least jbailey is in that position
<zul> you have to be approved by the cc first correct?
<Keybuk> there was at least one according to my sms from elmo
<mdz> zul: not necessarily, accrording to the docs as they stand, but that seems to be the way it works out in practice
<ajmitch> mdz: myself also, but I don't have CC approval yet
<mdz> because CC needs to approve you as a member first
<jbailey> mdz: Yes.
<zul> hmmm...ill wait for the cc then ;)
<mdz> if we have more time at the end, and a CC quorum, we'll see if we can take care of you guys as well
<sabdfl> likely
<sabdfl> let's tr to get it all done today
<mdz> but for now...sabdfl, Keybuk on jbailey?
<sabdfl> yes!
<Keybuk> wouldn't trust him with a barge pole :o)
<Keybuk> yes, of course :p
<mdz> yes on my part as well
<mdz> jbailey: congratulations!
* jbailey does a snoopy dance!
<mdz> I think "mail elmo" is the next step in the process
<sabdfl> smurfs, snoopy's, we got it all
<sabdfl> signed CoC
<ajmitch> well that was easy for you, jbailey 
<mdz> signed CoC came with being a member
<jbailey> ajmitch: It's true.  My wife's a dancer, she taught me.
<ajmitch> congrats :)
<sivang> jbailey: congrets
<mdz> moving on with the agenda
<mdz> who added this item about zinf?
<mdz> I asked for more information in the wiki, but there was no followup
<mdz> so I think it has been abandoned
<ogra> jbailey: hey jbailey :)
<mdz> the other seed change on the table is gs-esp
<Keybuk> zinf would need to replace something (rhythmbox?) given its feature list
<Keybuk> and I'm inclined to stick with rb as it's known good
<Kamion> hasn't the gs-esp seed change already happened?
<mdz> hmm, so it did.  no one seemed interested :-)
<mdz> is germinate doing the right thing with it?
<Kamion> defined as?
<mdz> using it instead of gs
<mdz> to satisfy all the or-ed dependencies
<Kamion> that's what cdimage seems to be doing, at least
<mdz> ok, let's follow up after the meeting to confirm
<mdz> and then roll a new ubuntu-meta
<sabdfl> esp?
<mdz> that's the end of the agenda
<mdz> any other business?
<sabdfl> this is a record
<sivang> hehe
<pitti> sabdfl: psql 8?
<ajmitch> that was awfully quick
<Keybuk> was gonna say, this is the shortest TB meeting *ever&
<fabbione> wow 9 minutes!
<pitti> sabdfl: while we are at it?
<mdz> sabdfl: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2005-January/003776.html
<sabdfl> mdz: pitti has psql 8.0 packages...
<Keybuk> and now pitti is going to say "language packs" and ruin it all <g>
<ogra> erm, what about other maintainer candidates ?
<pitti> although, that would spoil the record
<pitti> Keybuk: "language packs"
<mdz> psql 8 sounds like a massive UVF exception
<pitti> so?
<Kamion> esp => "Easy Software Products", the cupsys people I think
<pitti> to be more clear
<pitti> I'm _working_ on psql 8 packages
<sabdfl> mdz: it would not replace 7.4.6
<pitti> actually I'm working on a completely new architecture for all major postgresql versions
<mdz> oh, ok then
<pitti> so I don't have releasable packages ready by now
<sabdfl> the idea would be to have it available
<mdz> as long as pitti is happy supporting two versions
<sabdfl> it requires some manual jiggery to move data from 7.4.6 to 8.0
<mdz> sounds like postgresql
<sabdfl> depending on how much progress pitti can make on the packages
<pitti> if at all, this is something for universe only
<mdz> oh, if it's for universe, then there's nothing to talk about
<pitti> I'm working at them "after hours" (whatever that means) as fast as I can
<sabdfl> i'm not sure about that!
<pitti> but it will still take me a while
<sabdfl> we know upstream is solid
<sabdfl> so the only question is whether we are prepared to support pitti's packages
<sabdfl> i vote that we take that decision closer to release
<sabdfl> main / universe
<pitti> agreed
<ajmitch> that sounds like the situation with mono - 1.1.x is meant to be better than 1.0.x, but I don't know if someone is working on universe packages or not yet
<pitti> right now I don't even have something for universe
<mdz> on the same note, I think that the current SeedFreeze strategy doesn't fit the way that we actually work
<mdz> and in practice, it's fine to make seed changes much later in the release process
<ogra> mdz: what about other maintainer candidates ? crimsun and tseng already have proven to make good packages, they are both already members...and it would ease my MOTU work if the were allowed to upload
<mdz> so for hoary+1 (I refuse to acknoweldege the True Name of the Beast), I think we ought to make adjustments to that part of the freeze process
<lamont> mdz: SeedChill?
<sivang> mdz: hehe
<sabdfl> TNotB?
<mdz> ogra: if we finish with all tech board business, and still have enough CC representatives, we'll do that
<pitti> sabdfl: I try to get the packages ready as fast as I can; if I have something to show, we can discuss the hoary question again
<ogra> great !
<thom> lamont: seedslush
<sabdfl> pitti: excellent, it would be wonderful
<pitti> sabdfl: if some of your guys can help me with testing/fixing, that'd be great
<sabdfl> pitti: publish the packages
<pitti> ok
<mdz> ok, so there's no decision to be taken on postgresql, right?
<pitti> not a decision
<pitti> more a general question about the feeling
<pitti> whether we want/like it or not
<pitti> and how much time I invest into this
<pitti> right now, it's a free-time project
<mdz> ok
<doko> 8.0 requires all dependent packages to be rebuilt?
<mdz> Kamion: are you available for CC business?
<pitti> doko: yes, all client programs/libraries/etc.
<Kamion> mdz: yes
<mdz> thanks, elmo
<sabdfl> hey elmo
<sabdfl> cc buziness?
<mdz> ogra: do you have a list of candidates?
<ajmitch> the CC agenda has a few listed
<ogra> curently i would suggest treenaks (who vant be here), crimsun and tseng
<mdz> zul,ajmitch: ?
<zul> im here
<ogra> yup
<ogra> sorry zul/ajmitch....missed you
<ogra> oh, and if possible dholbach
<Kamion> zul: are you Chuck Short?
<ajmitch> that's ok 
<mdz> the CC agenda also has dholbach
<zul> Kamion: yep
<mdz> who doesn't seem to be online at the moment
<ogra> mdz: unfortunately not...probably mvo knows more ?
<sabdfl> ajmitch: are you interested in an selinux-enabled-by-default ubuntu derivative project?
<ajmitch> sabdfl: yes, that's what I'm working on
<sabdfl> ok
<mdz> he is one of a group of folks in the Ubuntu community who are interested in that project
<sabdfl> don't see it in the mainline for a few releases, but am interested in a derivative where it can get some banging-on
<sabdfl> cool
<sabdfl> one at a time
<mdz> ajmitch seems to be first on the list
<sabdfl> are we confirming member or uploader (universe)?
<elmo> sorry, what are these candidates for?
<mdz> MOTU
<mdz> as far as I  know
<elmo> ok
<sabdfl> so can we agree that any two of TB / CC / MOTU is good enough for that?
<sabdfl> MOTU or universe uploader?
<Kamion> presumably ajmitch would need access to more than universe eventually, but I think it would be best to stick to universe initially and see how he goes with patches
<mdz> ogra: (this would mean that you and chris together could approve new MOTU uploaders)
<ogra> sabdfl: isnt that identical ?
<mdz> sabdfl: MOTU == universe uploader, no?
<Kamion> (due to selinux invariably needing to change stuff in base)
<ajmitch> Kamion: yes, the packages that I'd need to touch for main would have to be reviewed
<Kamion> I see MOTU as the universe team leader
<sabdfl> it's what I thought we had, i'm just confirming, since there has been *cough* some confusion
<Kamion> s
<ogra> mdz: yeah, that would be great (if haggai agrees)
<Kamion> but the terms seem to have been conflated since then
<sabdfl> mdz: what kamion said
<Kamion> due to, er, the "Master" bit
<sabdfl> MOTU can approve new universe uploaders, as we discussed last time
<mdz> ajmitch: you mention that you were working on the python2.4 transition in universe; who were you working with on that?
<sabdfl> which i didn't document
<ajmitch> mdz: I started rebuilding some packages with ogra 
<ogra> mdz: me...
<Keybuk> what would "Slave Of The Universe" be though?  Monk?
<mdz> I always sort of saw MOTU as the collective, but it's not terribly important
<ogra> me too
<sabdfl> also, MOTU would make decisions on new packages for universe (subject to elmo vetting)
<ajmitch> however I haven't got very far yet 
* haggai saw MOTU as the collective too.. it's more positive
<elmo> haggai and ogra can be MOTMOTU
<ogra> lol
<haggai> heh
<sabdfl> well, that could get hectic since we said two MOTU could approve a new universe uploader, and I wouldn't want the group to be able to extend itself arbitrarily
<mdz> sounds like an anime character
<mdz> agreed, that privilege should be limited to the team leadership
<sabdfl> lets stick to the earlier terminology:
<sabdfl>  - MOTU - masters of the universe - team leaders in the universe component
<sabdfl>   - they make freeze / version / NEW decisions for universe
<sabdfl>  - two of them, for the moment, can approve a new uploader to universe
<sabdfl> uploaders can be unrestricted, or limited to universe
<elmo> have MOTU got a point of contact yet, or is it just ubuntu-devel@ ?
<sabdfl> i tihnk the restriction is social
<mdz> elmo: ubuntu-devel / ogra / haggai
<sabdfl> MOTU, IIRC, are haggai and ogra
<ogra> yup
<haggai> aye
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> i'd be happy with a few more MOTU
* haggai is on the look out for more
<sabdfl> they need to be people that the existing MOTU like to work with, to get a good team
<mdz> the CC agenda doesn't distinguish between member and maintainer candidates
<elmo> sabdfl: err, unrestricted uploaders are maintainers surely?
<sabdfl> elmo: yes
<elmo> the restriction isn't social, then, it's technical
<haggai> so the term is 'universe uploader' then?
<elmo> and I thought we finially hashed out procedures for maintainers in the last CC ?
<sabdfl> mako has a doc on the wiki, i'll review, update and move to the main site and call for comments
<ogra> haggai UNUP ?
<sabdfl> elmo: we did, i just didn't write it up
<Kamion> ogra: no need to over-abbreviate :-)
<ogra> heh...
<Kamion> (abbreviations require expansion, and therefore documentation ...)
<mdz> elmo: yes, we did, but sabdfl wasn't available at the time
<sabdfl> elmo: excellent
<sabdfl> oh, did i miss another discussion on it last week? was referring to the *previous* one
<sabdfl> gosh this is shocking
<sabdfl> ill review the log of the last cc meeting, and mako's writing, and post a final draft
<sabdfl> ANYHOW
<sabdfl> for now, let's run through the list
<sabdfl> any two people can say aye to a universe uploader (TB / CC / MOTU)
<sabdfl> let's go
<sabdfl> ajmitch?
<ajmitch> yes?
<ajmitch> still awake..
<Kamion> hang on, don't they need to be members first? => CC majority needed
<sabdfl> who seconds ajmitch for uploading to universe?
<sabdfl> Kamion: didnt we agree to accelerate the process for a while?
* elmo cries quietly in the corner
* zul offers elmo a lollipop
<Kamion> mm, ok, I thought that was just bypassing TB approval not CC approval as well
<elmo> zul: just say no to candy from strangers
* ogra hands elmo a handerchief
<Kamion> but if everybody disagrees with me then I'll go away
<zul> elmo: heh
<mako> Kamion: i think your position is sensible but that's not the way it was written AIUI
<Kamion> alright
<sabdfl> ok, let's take a decision now, cc only:
<sabdfl>  yes or no
<sabdfl>  should two of TB / MOTU / CC be able to approve a new uploader to universe, for a limited time until we have grown the universe team to a good size?
<ogra> yes (wrt to "limited time")
<azeem> so you don't need to be a Member first? Or you become a Member automatically?
<sabdfl> mako? kamion? elmo?
<mako> azeem: that as my question
<mako> sabdfl: can we clarify what happens wrt membership first?
<elmo> if it only takes two CC to become a member, I'm not sure there's a pressing need?
<sabdfl>  it would imply membership, allowing us to grow quickly for a few weeks / months, rather than dance around over several weeks
<elmo> given the impromtu approval stuff we discussed at last CC
<Kamion> yes, so long as it's clear and actually documented that way
<ogra> sabdfl: ...and discuss the process....
<mako> so automatic membership also..
<sabdfl> impromptu approval stuff? i missed that
<mdz> that was last week's CC meeting
<sabdfl> summary?
<mdz> the question was whether CC members should be able to approve outside of CC meetings
<mako> oh right, yes
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> good idea
<mdz> it was decided that they should, as long as it is properly recorded
<sabdfl> ok, so that reduces the time lag
<mdz> and, er, mako volunteered to do the record-keeping
<sabdfl> -- you could get two MOTU and two CC and you;d be straight in?
<elmo> as a universe uploader, yeah?
<mako> right, as a universe uploader
<ogra> yup
<sabdfl> personally, for universe uploaders, i'd be happy for any two of haggai, ogra, elmo, Kamion, mdz, sabdfl, mako (and anyone else I missed from that list) to approve membership and universe upload ONLY
<sabdfl> i would expect them only to approve someone they personally know can do a quality job
<sabdfl> i would see it as a short term step to grow quickly and efficiently
<mdz> ogra, haggai and elmo are in the best position to know, in general
<mako> right, it ends post-hoary.. which is what is published
<sabdfl> but i'm happy to be overruled here
<Kamion> that's fine by me; apologies for derailing the discussion
<mdz> mako: only published in the wiki so far, right?
<sabdfl> so Kamion is +1, mako, elmo?
<mako> mdz: in the wiki and in the meeting notes
<mako> sabdfl: i thought agreed to this before :)
<elmo> I'm gonna abstain, I really don't mind.  I think it's unnecessary, but I'm also not strongly opposed to it and I don't want to block it, if others want to do it
<mdz> mako: let's get that onto the website as soon as it passes sabdfl-o-matic
<sabdfl> mako: me too
<sabdfl> ok, i vote for it as well
<mako> mdz: i emailed sabdfl right after the meeting and was waiting for that blessing
<sabdfl> so, until Hoary, you can become a member AND get universe upload given the blessing of ANY TWO of TB / CC / MOTU
<mdz> sabdfl has sworn a mighty oath to process that email
<sabdfl> phew
<sabdfl> once again
<sabdfl> ajmitch?
<mdz> ogra,haggai: would like to hear from you guys
<haggai> I'm afraid I haven't seen anything of ajmitch yet
<sabdfl> i don't know the se-linux-lovin' guy
<ogra> ajmitch, it think i would ike to review the latest changes on your packages, and if they are ok, i'd like to approve you directly...
<mdz> ogra said that he had worked with him
<ajmitch> ogra: alright
<sabdfl> ajmitch: sounds like you need to work with the MOTU, when they are happy they can approve directly
<haggai> sounds good
<ogra> haggai if you want to review additionally ....
<ogra> just say...
<haggai> ogra: will do
<sabdfl> brandon hale?
<haggai> ogra: just CC me on your mails
<mdz> brandon hale == tseng?
<ogra> haggai: okay... (we made the most stuff on irc)
<ogra> mdz: yup
<mako> mdz: yeah
<ajmitch> will I still need CC approval to be a member now?
<ogra> mdz: ...rrrright aways from here
<mako> ajmitch: apparently not :)
<ogra> ajmitch: nope
<Kamion> ajmitch: not if haggai and ogra are happy with your work; if you're interested in membership before then we can vote on that separately
<ajmitch> ok :)
<sabdfl> ajmitch: you could conceivably get that first, by being active and making a good contribution anywhere
<mdz> pinged tseng and dholbach on -devel
<ogra> mdz: tseng is here...
<mdz> tseng: both CC and TB are present, so we're doing member/maintainer processing
<tseng> ah, ok.
<mdz> ogra: he is now :-)
<dholbach> hai
<Kamion> ajmitch: but I think it'd be as easy for you to just work with haggai/ogra
<sabdfl> hey dholbach
<mdz> dholbach: thanks
<mdz> dholbach:  both CC and TB are present, so we're doing member/maintainer processing
<dholbach> alright... thought it was due to feb, 8th
<tseng> it was.
<sivang> mdz: yes, tseng
<sabdfl> for clarity - cc could still approve a member (not uploader) if someone has made a good contribution but not yet cracked uploading
<sivang> tseng: :)
<mdz> it was, but we're taking advantage of an opportunity to accelerate the process
<sabdfl> ok, any two seconders for universe uploader and membership for tseng?
<ogra> sabdfl: absolutely....
<ajmitch> ogra: I'll grab sleep soon & get some packages for you in the next day or two
<ogra> since i like tomboy ;)
<haggai> was tseng's stuff on IRC too?
<Keybuk> tseng++ from me
<ogra> ajmitch: great :)
<Kamion> that's two
<haggai> ah nm
<ajmitch> still working on gsf-sharp :)
<ogra> haggai: tsen packages the mono apps since a long time
<sabdfl> ok done
<mako> i can't speak for technical issues but i've seen tseng contributing sicne nearly day one
* ogra could imagine tseng as the universe mono teamleader
<sabdfl> tseng: congratulations!
<sivang> tseng gets ++ from me, as a Memebr, for willingly showing the ways of cdbs for a pkging newbie :)
<tseng> sabdfl: yay, thanks.
<sivang> (as an Ubuntu Mmeber)
<sabdfl> that's member, and uploader to universe
<haggai> great
<sabdfl> next, dholbach? any two?
<ogra> yup
<ogra> for the gtkmm love :)
<sabdfl> anybody else?
<mdz> anyone who becomes a member according to the fast-track process should still go back and sign the CoC, certainly.  is someone keeping track of who needs to do that?
<sabdfl> i think elmo is checking for a signed coc before enabling upload
<mdz> ok
<sabdfl> but we also need to track it for non-uploading members
<dholbach> i had a word with debian's *mm maintainer today and i'll work together with him
<ogra> dholbach: could you send haggai some of your packaging work .... (coaster for example)
<dholbach> ogra: of course
<mdz> dholbach: is there anyone you've worked directly with in the Ubuntu community who could serve as a reference?
<sabdfl> dholbach: looks like you need to work with one of the TB / CC / MOTU guys to get a second vote of confidence
<haggai> ok, dholbach please send me some work and I'll approve once I've had a look
<Kamion> I'm happy to look over coaster too if sent references
<dholbach> haggai: deb-src http://ubuntu.stufenseite.de/Repo ./
<Kamion> sabdfl: that approval can happen out-of-meeting, right?
<haggai> yes it can, lets move on
<ogra> Kamion: it requires the fixed gtkmm packages (sid or the ones dholbach built)
<dholbach> mdz: i worked a bit on the wiki and advertised it on my universities unix group :-)
<sabdfl> Kamion: yes
<mdz> sounds like ogra and haggai can work with dholbach further
<ogra> yup
<dholbach> ogra, kamion: i'm coordinating with the new version required with btb@debian.org
<mdz> and continue the process that way
<sabdfl> zul? any two seconds?
<mdz> zul++
<sabdfl> is that two?
<sabdfl> ;-)
<dholbach> :-)
<mdz> that was 0->1
<haggai> no it's object orientated zul :)
<zul> bleah..
<sabdfl> any second?
<mdz> zul has been doing QA work in Bugzilla
<fabbione> and kernel work
<mako> zul's email/name?
<ogra> i havent seen packags yet....
<zul> Chuck Short/zul@gentoo.org
<zul> I been helping out with some kernel stuff as well
* fabbione confirms
<ogra> zul: did you already do some packaging ? 
<mdz> zul: do you have experience with Debian packaging?
<mdz> er, Ubuntu packaging ;-)
<zul> mdz: i created one or two for open-xchange and some personal packages
<elmo> mdz.BrandingUpdate()
<sabdfl> zul: looks like you need to get a few packages reviewed by one of the TB / CC / MOTU guys
<zul> sabdfl: sure no problems
<mdz> can we approve zul as a member at least?
<mdz> and leave upload approval to MOTU?
<Kamion> ack zul as member
* fabbione thumbs up
<sabdfl> done
* mako nods
<sabdfl> zul: welcome!
<sabdfl> ok
<zul> thanks
<sabdfl> any other business?
<Jonathan_C> cheers all, thanks for all the good work you put into ubuntu
<mdz> in fact we should probably have done the same with the others who were passed to MOTU for processing
<sabdfl> sorry for all of the confusion regarding processes
<Kamion> he looks fine to me as universe uploader on the basis of bugzilla work, but since mdz already mentioned that I'd really rather have a packaging-based ack
<ogra> sabdfl crimsun, while we're at it ?
<sabdfl> ill review mako's email and post a final draft, and email for comments
<elmo> did we do treenaks?
<elmo> or does he need to be here?
* dholbach was a bit overwhelmed, but is VERY happy about it :-)
<ogra> he cant :(
<sabdfl> doesn't need to e here if he has seconds
<ogra> i vote for him
<ogra> he has already done debian work....
<sabdfl> any votes for crimsun?
<zul> dholbach: yay!
<ogra> haggai ?
<mdz> I thought we were considering Treenaks
* dholbach give zul a high five.
<zul> wohoo...lunch time
<haggai> re crimsun, I had a couple of queries but I think he'll be ok for universe
<ogra> absolutely...
<sabdfl> haggai: would prefer a full-confidence vote, or abstention
<sabdfl> take the time to be sure
<sabdfl> ogra's sure :-)
<haggai> ok I'd better abstain then until the next mail exchange is done
<mako> sabdfl: sounds good.. look over the notes for the meeting too if you haven't.. we spent about an hour going over details as a group.. most of things there are there for a reason.. so for substantial changes, it's maybe worthing pinging one/many of us :)
<sabdfl> mako: i will
<mdz> is there another second for Treenaks?
<ogra> now we lost trenaks again ?
<ajmitch> haggai: do you want me to email you urls for some of my packages?
<Kamion> Treenaks++
<ogra> yay
<haggai> ajmitch: yes please do
<mdz> that's two (ogra and Kamion) for Treenaks/universe
<sabdfl> who was the first for Treenaks?
<sabdfl> i thought ogra was for crimsun
<Keybuk> I'll certainly second Treenaks
<mako> sabdfl: there are a couple little additions we agreed to at the meeting i wrote up in the summary but didn't do yet.. if you're not going to work on it right now, i can do a few of those
<sabdfl> ok, welcome in absentia, Treenaks
<ogra> sabdfl: for the record: Treenaks ++
<sabdfl> mako: go for it, i need to drive home, will check it out then
<sabdfl> ok, crimsun?
<mako> sabdfl: ok cool
<sabdfl> crimsun: what areas have you worked on, and what packaging experience can you point us at?
<Kamion>  /whois crimsun --real-name
<sabdfl> any of the TB / CC / MOTU guys worked with you or reviewed pacakges?
<ogra> crimsun is audio/alsa specialist and i'd like to have him aboard for this ...
<haggai> I have reviewed 1 package so far
<sabdfl> audio  / alsa is definitely a place we need expertise
<mdz> crimsun has been active in Bugzilla; I can certainly recommend him for membership
<sabdfl> but it's also main... and low level
<mdz> I have no information about packaging
* fabbione still thumbs up for crimsun 
<ogra> sabdfl: we are still talking about universe, or not ?
<Kamion> I thought I remembered approving crimsun for membership. Do we have a list of who's been approved for what somewhere, please?
<sabdfl> ok, he's afk and has no seconds for uploading
<mdz> Kamion: there's a member list in the wiki
<ogra> Kamion: crimsun was approved as member already
<sivang> Kamion: wiki/UbuntuMembers
<sabdfl> ok, i think we are done
<sabdfl> any other business?
<Keybuk> one thing I'd like to bring up, while TB, elmo and sabdfl are here: @ubuntu.com e-mail addresses for MOTU/uploaders etc.  do we want to do that?
<sabdfl> YES!
<Kamion> mdz: crimsun was approved according to http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-meeting-2005-01-25.html, but is not in that list; perhaps he hasn't yet signed CoC?
<mdz> absolutely
<Kamion> Keybuk: hell yeah
<Keybuk> and what about members?
<Kamion> I thought that was the whole point
<mdz> yes
<sabdfl> yes on members too
<Keybuk> are we doing that, and I just missed it?  or hasn't it been put in place yet?
<ogra> not yet 
<mdz> elmo: any admin issues with doing so?
<sabdfl> the mail system works, not sure if we have a process to create the accounts
<sivang> yay! u.c address for the changlogs :)
<elmo> the userdir-ldap system isn't as well hooked up as I'd like but, basically n
<haggai> what about people.u.c/~user ?  That would be useful
<elmo> o
<sabdfl> i've reservations about shell accounts
<sabdfl> elmo?
<haggai> even for maintainers?
<elmo> me too, fairly strong ones
<mdz> a member-writable WebDAV would be nice
<mdz> as an alternative to shells
<sabdfl> that sounds doable
<Keybuk> yeah, dav would be cool; could thom wave some apache2 love for it easily?
<mdz> that does require authentication somehow, though
<sabdfl> what about rw sftp? elmo is that secure?
<mdz> currently, members have no requirement to authenticate themselves
<sabdfl> in the cracking sense, not the crypto sense
<mdz> they don't even need to have a key
<smurfix> sabdfl: should be if you set the shell to sftpd
<Kamion> sftp is a subsystem, not a daemon
<elmo> Kamion: command limiting to sftp works tho right?
<Kamion> elmo: I'm not sure if that's possible
<elmo> oh, it's possible, we do internally, I don't know how effective it is tho
<sabdfl> i'm happy if elmo can find a way that satisfies him w.r.t. local security
<Kamion> there's sftp-server which implements that, but it's not intended to be invoked directly (see its changelog)
<smurfix> Kamion: that's hat I meant. :-/
<mdz> doesn't sftp support chroot?
<Kamion> er, man page
<smurfix> what
<sabdfl> also, on a suitable machine
<Kamion> mdz: if openssh upstream accepted the chroot patch, I'd be happy with it; right now I'm not
<sabdfl> Keybuk: thanks for bringing it up, v good point, glad to get the u.com emails rocking
<sabdfl> elmo, your call as to whether / how to offer ~user
<sabdfl> any other business?
<Keybuk> I noticed a lack of it in catching up on changes, and thought "hey up, we should do that!"
<elmo> sabdfl: is this forwarding only or imaps too?
<mdz> forwarding only, I hope
<sabdfl> elmo: your call, pref fwding only
<elmo> ok
<sivang> forwarding only should be enough I suppose
<ogra> else, please make it selectable...
<mdz> can we call this techmunity bouncil meeting to a close?
<sabdfl> mjg59: howdy
<sabdfl> any other business?
<sabdfl> done
<sabdfl> thanks all
<mdz> thanks, everyone
<sivang> just letting people here now, I just now completed my first upload -  a new g-s-t pkg :) 
<ajmitch> sivang: great :)
<dholbach> sivang: GREAT! :-)
<sabdfl> erm, isn't that main?
<sivang> sabdfl: pitti is the sponser :-))
<sabdfl> ah, ok :-)
<seb128> (I've reviewed the changes too)
<sivang> I should have said , "uploaded"
<seb128> good work :)
<sivang> with the double quotes
<sabdfl> thanks seb128
* mvo_ cheers to sivang 
* ogra applauds sivang
<pitti> I took some nitpicking, but now the package looks really good
<mako> sivang: that's awesome :)
* sivang blushes
<ogra> sivang: so its about time to become a MOTU ;)
<sivang> sabdfl: you missed a beat there ha? ;-)
<sabdfl> yup
<sabdfl> "i've just uploaded linux-kernel..."
<fabbione> eh?
<pitti> who cares about _that_ one...
<ogra> sabdfl: new universe package ?
<sivang> sabdfl: hhehe
* dholbach presents sabdfl with a bouquet of flowers. GRATS! :-)
<ogra> sabdfl: are you going for MOTU ?
* ogra hides
<dholbach> *giggle*
<sabdfl> dholbach: yr'welcome, thanks for playing here
* fabbione wants 10 years of his life back.. at the same congrats sabdfl for the nice adoption
<dholbach> sabdfl: its a pleasure :-)
<sabdfl> fabbione: i thought you *liked* bk
<sabdfl> cheers all
<fabbione> i actually do :-)
<ogra> mako: did you get your serbian sentence translated yesterday ?
<dholbach> ogra: he did... it read something like "please send me a CD too" :-)
<ajmitch> almost time for bed, the sun is just creeping over the horizon :)
<ogra> dholbach: i know... i gave it to my serbian chef translator today....
<dholbach> ogra: wow... how many people do they have employed?
<ajmitch> ogra: ok, got a couple of packages polished up a bit :)
<ogra> who ? ish ?
<ogra> ajmitch: i'll look at them tonight...
<dholbach> ogra: sounds like a lot really - even a "chief serbian translator" ;-)
<ajmitch> ogra: yeah, I have to upload them first
<ajmitch> to somewhere with bandwidth
<ogra> dholbach: we got 900 empl currently :(
<ogra> ajmitch: ok
<ajmitch> bbl
<dholbach> seb128: btb@d.o just waits for atk1.9 to hit debian, so he can gtkmm in there too, great news, hm? :-)
<seb128> dholbach: I've uploaded atk 1.9 this morning
<dholbach> seb128: rocking :-)
<Treenaks> OK guys, cool :)
<Treenaks> </late>
<Treenaks> I really need to talk to my boss about this time thing again
* dholbach comforts Treenaks
<mako> if anyone wants to take a look over the newly merged, fixedup page before sabdfl gets to it: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/NewMembersMaintainersDraft
<Treenaks> 8)
<smurfix> mako: - fix the WikiLinks in the last section
<smurfix> mako: - point to a list of maintainers
<mako> smurfix: ah, ok
<mako> smurfix: thanks
<dholbach> good night everyone
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-02-06
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:robitaille] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 1 Feb 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 1 Feb 20:00 UTC: MOTU | 2 Feb 10:00 UTC:  Dapper Development Status | 2 Feb 23:00 UTC: Artwork Team | 3 Feb 21:00 UTC:  Joint UDSF/Forums/DocTeam Meeting | 7 Feb 12:00 UTC: Community Council | 14 Feb 20:00 UTC:  Technical Board
<jelkner> kjcole: can you give me a call?
<kjcole> Man, I'm beat.  Was out at the "State of Emergency" protest last night, for all the good it did.
<kjcole> jelkner, at school right?
<jelkner> yup
<flint> god it is early...
<spacey> morning
<flint> JaneW, ogra, you folks back from lunch?
<dholbach> flint: not lunched yet.
<jelkner> Are we meeting this morning?
<dholbach> ogra went out for a smoke
<flint> well, I suppose we are...Jeff.
<jelkner> I only have 15 more minutes, if we don't start soon, I'll miss it
<flint> dholbach, of course, I should join him...
<spacey> dholbach, how is it going there?
<flint> jelkner, you could do a doc report and then go tame the screaming kids... :^)
<dholbach> spacey: fine, apart from everybody being ill :)
<jelkner> certainly
<jelkner> kevin and i got together last sunday
<jelkner> we have updated the wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuDocumentation/EdubuntuCookbook
<spacey> dholbach, oh:/ that sucks
<flint> spacey, sorry about the sick part.  the flu?
<spacey> flint, i'm not sick :p
<dholbach> Yep.
<flint> jelkner, strong opening, this is good stuff, what else?
<jelkner> anyone interested in contributing to the cookbook, could choose their favorite "recipe" and write it up...
<spacey> dholbach, contanmination sprint
<spacey> :P
<dholbach> gar! :)
<jelkner> we will be meeting again next Sunday to outline which recipies we think are essential.
<flint> spacey, atta boy! :^)
<jelkner> that's it for our report.
<jelkner> questions?
<spacey> jelkner, where is a list of the recipies?
<flint> I like what I see on  your web site Jeff.
<jelkner> spacey: we will be working on that next sunday
<jelkner> we don't have them yet
<jelkner> next week we will
<flint> Let me think of a softball question like they would ask Bush at a news conference...
<spacey> jelkner, if you have a list of that, i might have time to write a few 
<jelkner> spacey: great!
<jelkner> ok, gotta run...
<flint> ...that was painless...
<JaneW> hello :/
<flint> JaneW, you just missed jeff...
<JaneW> yeah sorry
<JaneW> we are at the DistroSprintDeathPlague
<flint> he actually did a very coherant doc report...
<flint> the what?
<JaneW> I am on line so I'll scroll back and catch up
<JaneW> well 9 of the 16 ppl here are down with a nasty bug
<JaneW> the rest are waiting with bated breath to see if we are going to die too
<sivang> JaneW: oh my god, waht seems to be the bug?
<ogra> nobody has grown wings, so it might not be bird flu 
<JaneW> sivang: fever, headache, vomitting, diarroea - you get the idea
<JaneW> ogra: got time for a quick tech update?
<ogra> hmpf ... 
<JaneW> careful I can throw a danish at you ;)
<ogra> you got that in the sprint update already ...
<ogra> there is not much to add, i could copy and paste though
<flint> ogra, did you enjoy the cigarette with coffee?
<ogra> flint, which of the 10 i head already 
<sivang> JaneW: lol
<ogra> (smoking apparently prevents me from getting ill)
<flint> the best times are smoking...
<ogra> so tech update.... seeing that i get ltsp in shape with all the functions we need before feture freeze 
<ogra> we found an evil bug with the system clock i should solve currently instead of chatting ... 
<simira> JaneW: are you all right? And how come you speak Danish? Har du noen gang boet i Danmark?
<JaneW> ogra: yeah cut and paste for those that didn;t read
<ogra> seems we need ntpdate to run on the client and a ntp server on the ltsp server, else udev cant create devices if the hardware clock is jfar out of sync
<jsgotangco> edubuntu meeting?
<sivang> jsgotangco: seems so :)
<JaneW> simira: I am ok I think , feeling a bit spaced out though. I mean a Danish PASTRY though
<simira> hehe, ok
* sivang visualized that, err
<ogra> * LTSP work included sanitizing all the LTSP breakage which occurred due
<ogra> to changes in the underlying Dapper architecture - this is now fixed and
<ogra> running again.
<ogra> * Work was done on Xauthority handling on LTSP to allow secure
<ogra> authentication of thin clients to the Edubuntu server.
<ogra> * Thin Client Low Memory Usage:  netboot mode in initramfs tools added
<ogra> and integrated to LTSP - still to be tested and uploaded.
<ogra> * Reverted the change of the SIaddr that breaks the LTSP booting with
<jsgotangco> oh great i got to attend one again =)
<ogra> DHCPD. This prevents breakage on upgrades of LTSP set-ups.
<JaneW> jsgotangco: :) wb
<ogra> but currently that time bug has the highes prio, since i need to work with the people that are left before they also fall dead
<flint> from sprint to sick bed :^)
<jsgotangco> ogra, how is amd64?
<ogra> jsgotangco, works fine 
* jsgotangco would like to test an amd daily in a few days
<ogra> i havent gotten around to set the default chroot creation in the installer to i386 yet 
<ogra> which i think makes sense ... but i dnot know if its possible to do for just oine arch
<JaneW> who is in charge of edubuntu documentation for dapper, over and above the cookbook? jsgotangco ?
<ogra> jsgotangco, wait some days before testing, currently the ltsp client is broken ... the next uploads will fix this
<ogra> JaneW, still jelkner and kjcole 
<flint> JaneW, what jeff reported on is: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuDocumentation/EdubuntuCookbook it is a start.
<jsgotangco> JaneW, what needs to be updated? i still have my olld sources
<ogra> jsgotangco, probably the mizilla page ...
<jsgotangco> JaneW, as for cookbook, i have no relationship to it for dapper
<ogra> *mozilla
<jsgotangco> ok
<jsgotangco> we made a shorter one
<jsgotangco> i'll update
<JaneW> Let me rephrase... who is in charge of edubuntu documentation for dapper, other than the cookbook? 
<JaneW> about edubuntu and release notes etc
<jsgotangco> i can only think of releasenotes and about
<JaneW> ditto
<jsgotangco> i'll take charge of that then
<spacey> if there are several parts of documentation that are missing out, i don't might writing it up
<JaneW> jsgotangco: cool thanks, will you have time?
<jsgotangco> JaneW, yes
<JaneW> jsgotangco: have you worked with that pdf guy yet?
<JaneW> spacey, great thanks please co-ord with jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> JaneW, he hasn't been communicating, i'll bug him
<JaneW> jsgotangco: hmmm...
<jsgotangco> JaneW, its a bit too late for dapper, but we can make a plan for it
<jsgotangco> DITA is the future
<flint> JaneW, is the plan that all docs be in pdf?
<flint> JaneW, outside of the cookbook I mean.
<JaneW> flint: I am not clear on the plan jsgotangco would know more
<jsgotangco> flint, this is more of a toolchain project rather than edubuntu specific
* jsgotangco digs for old emails
<flint> JaneW, you asked about the "pdf guy"  what a great name! :^)
<flint> gotcha Jane
<JaneW> well his name is Mark Johnson, know that I think about it
<flint> jsgotangco, I am slow, what is DITA?
<flint> JaneW, I think he should change his name... Mark Johnson is pretty plain.  chicks dig "the pdf guy"...
<JaneW> flint: agreed
<flint> orga would the brower in edubuntu default to the doc pages?
<ogra> flint, it will default to the about page
<ogra> (which might contain links to the docs)
<jsgotangco> flint, Darwin Information Typing Architecture
<flint> indeed... the about page could be customized to link to these very docs...
<jsgotangco> (DITA XML)
<flint> jsgotangco, thank you, a morning without a new acronym is like a morning without coffee...like this morning...argh!
<flint> jsgotangco, the trick with the docs is how to get the average install to read them.  when I installed, the first thing I did was click on that silly fox.
<flint> JaneW, I LIKE the fox :^)
<JaneW> ok any more edubuntu business?
<JaneW> highvoltage: ?
<flint> anyway ollie how hard set is the html for that page?
<JaneW> you said you wanted to discuss web stuff today?
<JaneW> also I have been chatting with hno73 and he supports the idea of MOIN for edubuntu website
<JaneW> mhz around?
<jsgotangco> cool
<highvoltage> sorry, i'm here, but i'm also not
<highvoltage> JaneW: hi
<flint> hi jonathan!
<highvoltage> hi mr flint!
<highvoltage> flint: how's the cookbook?
<flint> there is progress: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuDocumentation/EdubuntuCookbook 
<flint> highvoltage, it is far from being hot and on the table :^)
<flint> I would say they are cutting up the carrots and looking for the soup pot.
<highvoltage> :)
<flint> I personally have found the sherry :^)
<JaneW> highvoltage: Henrik supports the idea of using MOIN instead of drupal for the site...
* JaneW drank maple whiskey last night...
<highvoltage> JaneW: i'm actually very ambivilant between the two, both are good.
* JaneW congratualted flint for getting Jonathan right ;)
<highvoltage> flint: yes, thank you!
<JaneW> highvoltage: the ubuntu site is moin now and it looks good
<flint> JaneW, I have to go and check EVERY TIME, but you are welcome!!!
<JaneW> highvoltage: it may make sense to standardise, and unify to a degree
<highvoltage> it's less work too :)
<highvoltage> it's just philip who feels really, really strong that it should be drupal
<flint> JaneW, in this case I really feel that it is not about the tool.  lets get something out there and deal tools on the back end.
<highvoltage> and he had lots of ideas which he says depends more or less on it.
<highvoltage> but i'm sure you could get those tools in moin with some work too
<flint> highvoltage, Jonathan I just think of the text processing fun one could have cross converting between all these damn tools (choy curl :^)
<flint> I meant "holy curl"
<highvoltage> yes, there's that too
<jsgotangco> ok i've seeded initial Edubuntu 6.04 docs (not cookbook) in svn
<flint> I have played with moin and drupal, and a few others.  all can handle content.  as we say in cookbook land, "where is the beef?"
<ogra> great 
<JaneW> highvoltage: how involved is phillip now?
<JaneW> flint: look at www.ubuntu.com - like what you see? = moin
<flint> jsgotangco, for the svn crippled, how do I get to them?  we take this offline?
<highvoltage> JaneW: he's gone a bit quiet, i think mainly because of the drupal stuff, i think he likes workign with drupal a lot, somehow
<highvoltage> if we stick with moin, i can at least get the translators going on the web content.
<highvoltage> there's about 7 people wanting to translate the edubuntu site into different languages.
<jsgotangco> flint, you grab it via svn but its in docbook source...i'll give you the link later
<highvoltage> (each a different one)
<flint> JaneW, no need to sell any tool... all I know is that I have to register again and again because none of the tools allow cross passwords!
<sivang> JaneW: you mean, wiki.ubuntu.com ?
<JaneW> sivang: both
<sivang> JaneW: AFAIK this is Plone at the front
<ogra> we dont use plone since breezy anymore
<sivang> ah , I didn't know plone was moved out from the main site.
<JaneW> sivang: no it's not, it was migrated, it's moin now
<ogra> thats why plone is in universe ;)
* JaneW has a login now *efg*
<sivang> ogra: heh
<jsgotangco> its moin, we've been doing in the OpenCD project too
<jsgotangco> the tabs are moin
<flint> JaneW, I do know you are hell on wheels with the moin meta-language for links and etc... :^)
<JaneW> well Hendrik made a helpful help page with tips as well, so I can learn more now
<JaneW> highvoltage: anyway think about it, but it's your call in the end, I just rem there were security concerns about drupal.
<JaneW> jsgotangco: indeed
<flint> ogra, my remaining question is how hard set is the "about page"?
<JaneW> pity mhz is not here, he touts moin every chance he gets
<ogra> flint, its the default page, it gets set by the artwork page
<ogra> s/page/package/
<flint> JaneW, the default page of the browser is where the results of our document labor end up.
<flint> na it gets set up in the profile thingy in firefox...
<ogra> firefox can only point to one page that is the same location for ubuntu, edubuntu and kubuntu ...
<ogra> the different artwork packages replace this file ...
<flint> it is not a url at first ollie it is a file
<ogra> its a file:/// url
<flint> ok gotcha... 
<jsgotangco> flint, we'd like to put it on docfreeze too to open up for translations (that's why we'd love to do xml)
<ogra> flint, which is hardcoded in firefox
<flint> ogra, am I more nuts than usual to want to find the docs when I open the browser?
<ogra> flint, as i said, there should be no probelm to add links to that page 
<jsgotangco> flint, do you want to add the cookbook in the distro?
<ogra> (Unote that file:/// can also be a link)
<flint> ogra, there is not enough space on the CD for the cookbook.
<ogra> jsgotangco, i doubt that will be ready in time for being packaged in dapper
<jsgotangco> i agree
<flint> ogra, I think the docs that Jsgotangco is cooking could open as links on the default browser page
<ogra> flint, i'd love to drop all KDE stuff to make space available ;)
<ogra> (but we're lacking replacements yet)
<flint> ogra, that was harsh....
<ogra> flint, it takes a huge amount of space to hold all the dependencys for kdeedu on the cd
<jsgotangco> yeah
<flint> that kevin, he was there all the time!
<flint> anyway, I gotta get coffee.  excellent conspiracy this morning.  Thanks!!!!
<flint> sksk
<JaneW> sorry that was a bit disjointed folks
<JaneW> we are multitasking here and a bit disease infected.
<JaneW> thanks for the cook book work and updates
<JaneW> same time, same place next week, and hopefully we'll have good progress by then :)
<JaneW> I may have some exciting news to share then too.
<jsgotangco> i still havent seen any cookbook source :/
<highvoltage> JaneW: if majority is happy with moin, then so am i
<JaneW> it's lunch time - over and out
<highvoltage> btw
<highvoltage> here's a very, very early version of the troubleshooter i talked about at the summit:
<highvoltage> http://jonathancarter.co.za/projects/xola/index.py
<highvoltage> it's layout is awkward and it's still very strange, but it should give you a vague idea of where it might be going to
<jsgotangco> wow
<jsgotangco> that is so cool
<highvoltage> thanks :)
<highvoltage> long term goal is to have a nice wiki-style editor for all the options, so that the help desk of who-ever is deploying the installations can easily edit the entire thing.
<jsgotangco> yes that would be really cool
<jsgotangco> hrmmm
<jsgotangco> this could be great to adapt for ubuntu itself
<jsgotangco> make it a wee bit smaller i guess
<highvoltage> yeah.
<jsgotangco> wonder if this can run off yelp
<highvoltage> it's probably going to become smaller anyway, those penguins are expensive on screen space.
<jsgotangco> do you want to try this out on Yelp?
<highvoltage> i would if i had the time, i think mdke suggested the same
<highvoltage> thign
<highvoltage> how would this work with yelp?
<jsgotangco> yelp can render html
<jsgotangco> but that's static
<jsgotangco> this is a python script
<jsgotangco> hrmm
<highvoltage> this python script is still very static
<highvoltage> i plan to have the data in a sqlite database later on
<jsgotangco> hmm can i take a peek?
<jsgotangco> i can try it over the weekend
<highvoltage> of course, don't expect much though
<jsgotangco> its ok
<highvoltage> can i tar it up and e-mail it to you?
<jsgotangco> yes thanks
<highvoltage> it's less than 800k, including images
<jsgotangco> alright
<highvoltage> jgotangco@ubuntu.com?
<jsgotangco> yeah
<zul> hi
<lucasd> hello
<sistpoty> hi everyone
<lucas> hi all
<lucas> seems like many MOTU are missing
<sistpoty> :(
<lfittl> hi all
<sistpoty> ok, welcome to the meeting
<sistpoty> please state your names for the minutes
* sistpoty is StefanPotyra
* lucas is LucasNussbaum
* lfittl is LukasFittl
<zul> ChuckShort
<sivang> hi all, I will watch not sure will stay to end
<lucas> I added most (all?) of the points on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings . All points are just discussion points, so I think we should proceed with the meeting even if not everybody is here
<sistpoty> yes
<sistpoty> first of all, anybody willing to do the minutes for this meeting?
<lucas> sistpoty: I can do them if you want
<zyga> hello
<sistpoty> cool, great 
<sistpoty> ok, let's move to the first point... lucas go ahead plz 
<lucas> ok
<lucas> I'm just looking for feedback about https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MultiDistroTools
<lucas> (which generates http://tiber.tauware.de/~lucas/versions/ )
<lucas> are people using it ? what's missing ? etc
<lucas> are there some MOTU teams who would like some more specific reports (like the ruby one) ?
<zyga> lucas: I'm not using it (I didn't knew about it) but it's a good idea IMHO
<sistpoty> hm... iirc the science team wanted s.th. like it. but I don't remember if it was raphing or laserjock who wanted to start a branch from it
<lucas> laserjock
<lucas> he started something
<lucas> anyone else ? ;)
<sistpoty> lucas: can you split the list somehow? 
<lucas> based on what ?
<sistpoty> lucas: the whole list is 1.7Mb which is quite big... 
<lucas> that's why I'm proposing to generate smaller reports
<sistpoty> lucas: not quite sure what would be reasonable... maybe alphabet or sections or s.th. else
<lucas> with only a specific set of packages
<sistpoty> lucas: yes... but just as addon ;)
<lucas> mmh, I could generate one with only packages outdated in ubuntu
<lucas> since it's probably the most interesting part
<sistpoty> that would be great :)
<lucas> ok
<sistpoty> apart from that I also think it's pretty feature complete. good work!
<lfittl> lucas: outdated in debian and not in debian should also get their own page
<lucas> ok
<lucas> I recently discovered that data from the Debian PTS was available on http://qa.debian.org/data/ddpo/results/
<lfittl> apart from that, well done :)
<lucas> I'll try to integrate some of it (like the bug numbers)
<sistpoty> cool :)
<lucas> ok
<lucas> next point ?
<sistpoty> yes, move on
<lucas> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DCT
<lucas> Debian Collaboration Team
<lucas> question: what do you think ?
<lfittl> lucas: I would be interested to help with this, although I am no MOTU yet..
<lucas> no problem: if you have some experience with packaging/bug reporting etc, it's ok
<sistpoty> hm... I remember bits of the discussion when utnubu was founded, which resulted iirc that it is better to directly contact the debian maintainer...
<lucas> sistpoty: some people don't do it
<sistpoty> yes, which is not really good imo
<zyga> lucas: I comment if I may
<lfittl> lucas: k, perfect, let's talk about this after the meeting
<lucas> well, I don't think we can force ubuntu devs to report bugs to Debian
<lucas> also, DCT would be a way to put some pressure on Debian maintainers
<sistpoty> but having the DCT to give back the changes might lead to the idea "oh we have DCT to report back changes why should I do it then?", which should be avoided
<zyga> lucas: DCT is good as a team of people comitted to their work that get notified by regular developers to do some work and keep track of this 
<lucas> by forcing them to deal with bugs promptly
<sistpoty> but generally I think DCT is a good idea
<lucas> ok
<lucas> any other comments
<lucas> ?
<siretart> re
<siretart> sorry for being late
<sistpoty> my proposal would be: just go ahead and try it out and see how it works out
<sistpoty> hi siretart
<lucas> ok
<lucas> anybody else interested in helping ?
<siretart> dct
<siretart> I made some thoughts about this
<lucas> ah
<lucas> go ahead :)
<siretart> to be honest, I'm a bit sceptical
<siretart> because I don't really see the point in that project
<siretart> I mean, the members are basically commiting to submitting patches and doing work vice versa
<siretart> did I get this right?
<lucas> siretart: the problem is that in theory, members should submit patches upstream
<lucas> however, there are many changes which should be reported in Debian but aren't
<siretart> lucas: right. 
<lucas> if there's a CC or TB decision saying that it's WRONG not to report changes upstream, DCT isn't needed
<siretart> lucas: I think a team like the DCT should rather focus on making proposal how collaboration could be improved, and give recommendations on how that goal can be achieved
<lucas> (I would prefer such a decision)
<siretart> I think some people overrate the tb. it gives decisions on technical problems. this is partly a technical problem
<lucas> maybe CC would be best suited
<siretart> I don't think the tb nor the CC can change the way people think, or tell them how to work
<lucas> in some way, it can
<lucas> it could say : if have to do that
<lucas> s/if/you
<siretart> lucas: I don't say the DCT is a bad idea. it may be quite possible that I didn't get the idea right
<sistpoty> lucas: did you get feedback from debian so far about DCT?
<lucas> I haven't really announced it to Debian
<lucas> only utnubu
<lucas> siretart: no offense taken :-)
<siretart> lucas: I have the impression that, given to the very few responses yet, most people fear that working on the DCT mean going through endless lists of patches, writing emails to people who are likely to not even notice that
<siretart> and this is what makes me very sceptical
<lucas> "going through endless lists of patches" <= probably
<Kyral> meh I'm late
<lucas> "writing emails to people who are likely to not even notice that" <= no, because it's a win-win solution
<lucas> the debian maintainer HAS to care
<lucas> or we are just going to stop working with him
<siretart> I'd rather like to see the DCT to be a forum which makes recommendations on how collaboration can be improved
<lucas> there's already utnubu for this, I think
<siretart> but thats just my personal opinion. you asked for comments ;)
<sistpoty> oh, one thing I just found in the DCT wiki-page: "Provide better (more verbose) changelog entries" 
<sistpoty> ^^ this is not only good for debian collaboration, but also for team maintenance, so PLEASE DO! ;)
<siretart> sistpoty: yeah. but I don't expect the DCT to fix my changelogs
<siretart> sistpoty: I could imagine that the DCT could make some charts about 'worst merging changelogs ever' ;)
<lucas> siretart: this is in the list of things you can do to help as a DCT outsider
<sistpoty> siretart: he, no I wanted to tell this to every motu, esp. hopefuls ;)
<siretart> sistpoty: right. but regular uploaders (me included) also write bad/confusing changelog entries
<siretart> I need to improve
<lucas> from my minutes:
<lucas> Several people mentionned that Ubuntu devs should already send patches and report bugs upstream. However, it's often not the case, especially for MOTUs who deal with a lot of packages. It would be great to have an official position : is it considered "OK" or "WRONG" for Ubuntu developers to forget to report worthy changes to the Debian BTS ?
<lucas> we all agree on that ?
<lucas> (it's a bit hard for me to write the minutes since I'm obviously biaised)
<ajmitch> morning, sorry I'm late :)
<sistpoty> hi ajmitch
<siretart> lucas: what are you asking. is it reasonable to send patches or if it was reasonable to define guidelines how to do merges?
<lucas> siretart: I'm asking whether ubuntu devs are "supposed" to submit patches to the BTS.
<lucas> or if it's OK not to do it.
<sistpoty> lucas: I don't think we need an official statement for that, since it's already there (at least somewhere in the wiki), that it is considered good practice to forward patches
<lucas> sistpoty: yeah, but is it considered bad practice not to ? :-)
<siretart> good point
<sistpoty> lucas: not directly, but indirectly ;)
<sistpoty> what might also be good would be some school-lesson on how to use BTS and submit patches back to debian, what do you think?
<lucas> it's already quite well documented on the wiki
<siretart> ajmitch: did you manage to catch up the backlog? I'd like to hear the opinion from someone with a Debian hat on
<lucas> I'm not sure it's necessary
<siretart> lucas: which page are you reffering to?
<lucas> mmh :)
<siretart> sistpoty: I think this is an excellent topic for a lesson!
<sistpoty> well, sometimes it's better to take ppl. by the hand ;)
<lucas> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Debian
<siretart> yes. espc. on important things. I consider this really important, if we don't want to fail badly
<lucas> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributingToDebian
<siretart> lucas: ok, these pages you are reffering to. Yeah, I also think they are a good start, but they could also have some more polishing, updating, and better integration
<siretart> short: I'm not that happy with them, but not that unhappy to change them immediately 
<lucas> ok
<siretart> lucas: this could be imo another topic of a DCT session, btw
<lucas> ajmitch: you catched up ? (/me is also interested by your POV)
<siretart> any DD around by chance?
* ajmitch is just a simple MOTU :)
* sistpoty puts the DD hat on ajmitch's head
<ajmitch> sigh
<ajmitch> I'd really like to see more MOTUs filing patches & bugs
<ajmitch> and I really have to do more of it myself :)
<siretart> lucas: what do you think about semi regular DCT meetings?
<lucas> you mean meetings to discuss collaboration with debian ?
<ajmitch> it depends no what the DCT is going to be
<siretart> or sessions, if they are focused on a specific topic
<lucas> ah, yes
<lucas> ok
<ajmitch> whether it's a small group of MOTUs & willing DDs
<ajmitch> the comment about 'putting pressure on DDs' is something I don't like so much
<siretart> because I don't think this MOTU Meeting is the right place for a lenghty discussion about what the DCT should do and not
<siretart> right
<lucas> ok
<ajmitch> especially with so few of us here today
<siretart> we don't really want to force anywany. at least, nobody should be
<ajmitch> even at mark's keynote at LCA there were questiosn about those MOTUs
<siretart> ajmitch: what was the question? and what the answer?
<ajmitch> siretart: the problem is that I can't recall just what was asked - I think it was about motus packaging new stuff & diverging from debian
<siretart> i see
<ajmitch> hopefully the video will be out soon :)
<sistpoty> ok, lucas: how about you just announce a date/time for a DCT meeting to discuss this more in depth?
<lucas> ok, I'll think about it
<lucas> when the minutes will be ready
<ajmitch> lucas: have you announced the DCT on the motu mailing list?
<lucas> I'll ask mark to comment on the "good practice / bad practice" problem
<lucas> ajmitch: yup
* ajmitch probably saw it
<ajmitch> but I'd already known of the existence of it by then
<lucas> are some of you willing to get more involved in DCT ?
<ajmitch> lucas: btw it got a mention at LCA in lathiat's debian/ubuntu talk ;)
<ajmitch> lucas: sure
<lucas> hehe
* ajmitch had spotted it on the wiki the night before
<lucas> currently, DCT is only a spec ;)
<ajmitch> and this was before you announced it
<ajmitch> I know
<sistpoty> lucas: not right now, since I'm hellish short of time :(... perhaps in one/two month ;)
<ajmitch> we announced it as such
<lucas> ok
* ajmitch is probably obliged to help out with the DCT
<siretart> I think another problem is what be expected from MOTUs
<lucas> nobody is obliged
<tseng> stupid question
<tseng> what is the difference between joining utnubu and dct
<ajmitch> utnubu is on the debian side
<ajmitch> so not much
<tseng> "and?"
<lucas> utnubu is about pulling, DCT about pushing
<siretart> I mean, given that someone (or team) gives some guidelines. what would be an acceptable scope of what to do and what not to do for such a document
<ajmitch> I wouldn't care too much which group I was officially with
<lucas> currently, utnubu hasn't achieved much
<ajmitch> as long as stuff was being done
<lucas> and seems to be working on getting new packages from ubuntu to debian
<tseng> i see no difference outside of a name
<tseng> not to throw a fork in forward progress, just curious
<tseng> carry on
<lucas> tseng: utnubu is about helping with DM power (ie you mostly need to be a DD to be helpful in utnubu)
<sistpoty> ok, do we want to move to the next item?
<siretart> sistpoty++
<lucas> DCT is helping from Ubuntu (you need to be familiar with Ubuntu dev to help in DCT)
<lucas> ok
<lucas> Status of MoM (lucas). During the last ?TechnicalBoard meeting, the status of MoM was discussed. It often can't find the correct base version because the morgue (repository of old packages) it is using went out of disk space. Should we set up our own morgue to make the merging process more efficient ? It would require at most 13(n+1) GB, n being the number of Ubuntu releases we want to support, and a few hours of coding.
<ajmitch> it's been discussed at the TB
<ajmitch> and it's not really something we can do - we can't retrieve those old package that are list
<ajmitch> s/list/lost/
<lucas> yeah, but we could start working on our own morgue to improve the future
<siretart> well, we have about 80gb of free space on tiber, currently, which we can use as interim solution
<siretart> I think this is the question, is it?
<ajmitch> why should we have to duplicate what *should* be working for the whole distro but isn't yet?
<siretart> ajmitch: obviously, there is not much interest in reviving the 'real' morgue
<lucas> ajmitch: scott's tools are closed source
<lucas> also, the way it's currently working is not satisfying
<ajmitch> siretart: no, but some changes may come from the move to soyuz
<lucas> it fetches packages from a debian morgue which stores everything
<lucas> so it goes out of space from time to time
<siretart> ajmitch: yes. but soyuz is.. well, not there yet.
<ajmitch> siretart: within days, they say ;)
<siretart> ajmitch: since hoary release. I know :/
<ajmitch> lucas: I think it's run out of space once
<lucas> yeah, but since it stores everything
<lucas> it's supposed to run out of space on a regular basis ;)
* ajmitch sighs
<sistpoty> I guess what's more important is that we know ahead of time how the next merges can be handled (will bugs be filed etc.)
<siretart> so it SHOULD just be putting in a bigger disk. which didn't happen since a LOOONG time
<lucas> also, they might decide to expire packages which we would like to keep
<lucas> and keep some which are useless
<sistpoty> just curious: how important do you consider the MoM-report for doing merges? (I rarely used them for this merge-phase)
<siretart> lucas: so, what are you basically proposing to improve the situation?
<lucas> siretart: build our own morgue, but keeping only the packages which matters to us
<lucas> sistpoty: mom reports isn't really helpful
<lucas> but having the common base package is
<siretart> sistpoty: I have a very mixed feeling. it depends on the package. In general, I think a manual review of the debdiff to the latest debian package before uploading is a must. I've seen a lot of packages whose uploader obviously didn't do that :/
<siretart> s/a lot of/some/ (well, in fact, 2 packages where I noticed that problem)
<ajmitch> siretart: that's not the fault of the MoM reports
<lucas> example of package with the problem : http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/xscreensaver/REPORT
<lucas> the base version should be 4.23-2
<siretart> ajmitch: right. but I think the MoM report mislead/seduce developers to that :(
<lucas> but we only have the diffs against 4.23-1
<ajmitch> lucas: guess what
<ajmitch> setting up yet another tool won't fix that
<siretart> right
<lucas> ajmitch: it depends on the tool.
<lucas> the problem with debian's morgue is that it attemps to keep everything
<siretart> lucas: not if it is not going to be used by Keybuks MoM script
<ajmitch> and we don't have access to the debian morgue
<ajmitch> so we only have the incomplete set of packages on snapshot.d.n
<siretart> I think lucas refers to snapshot.debian.net
<sistpoty> ajmitch: we could mirror incoming and build a morgue from there with some tricks
<ajmitch> the debian morgue is separate
<ajmitch> it was referred to in the TB meeting
<siretart> ajmitch: debian has an morgue on its own?
<lucas> ajmitch: that's why we should start working on a tool ASAP so we get a lot of "common base packages" when we start working on merges
<lucas> siretart: yes, but it ran out of space in november
<siretart> lucas: a tool to do what excatly?
<lucas> fetch source packages on a regular basis, and remove those that we won't need
<ajmitch> to store the 4th copy of packages?
<siretart> lucas: I don't really get the point
<lucas> siretart: the point is: we need to be able to fetch the base version when we need it
<lucas> currently, it's often lost
<lucas> ajmitch: 30GB of disk space isn't really expensive
<siretart> lucas: this means debian packages only, right?
<sistpoty> I'm still not 100% convinced what the win is from having the base version
<lucas> sistpoty: how do you usually know what changed ?
<siretart> I think s.d.n and ftp.d.o is sufficient. we have more important things to do
<sistpoty> lucas: from the changelog
<ajmitch> 'often lost' - the main reason is the single occurrence of a disk failure that rendered the RAID array on snapshot.s.n bad
<lucas> ajmitch: and the debian morgue ran out of space
<siretart> which debian morgue are you reffering to? s.d.n?
<ajmitch> and I don't know if we even use that, as it's on a restricted host
<lucas> the debian ftpmaster has their own morgue
<lucas> ajmitch: Keybuk and Kamion said we used it
<lucas> I'd like to work on this. siretart, can get take 30 to 40 GB of disk space on tiber for this ?
* ajmitch gives up
<lucas> s/can get take/can I take/
<sistpoty> well, from the viewpoint of a tiber-admin, I don't really object to having a separate morgue, as long as a reasonable amount of disk space will still be reserved and it won't produce too much cpu-load
<siretart> I'm sceptical in doing that on tiber. tiber was not donated for this, and I don't really see the profit we gain from this
<lucas> ok
<lucas> I'll reexplain in a mail to ubuntu-motu
<siretart> I see additional load and additional traffic caused from this
<siretart> yes, that would be great
<lucas> so we can discuss this on the mailing list
<sistpoty> ok, next item?
<siretart> lucas: I'd suggest explaining that on the mailing list, and write a summary on the wiki page. then we can decide in another meeting
<siretart> next iteam
<siretart> backups of tiber.tauware.de (lucas). Some people are hosting bzr repositories on tiber. It would be quite a shame if they were lost. Are there some plans to setup some off-site backups of tiber ?
<siretart> well, this is a status report
<siretart> I've just did a tarball of /etc /srv and /home, and copied it to my private vserver in germany
<siretart> I have to talk to my hoster, if he is willing to backup this tarball for me before I do this in a cron job
<lucas> couldn't canonical backup tiber ?
<siretart> the tarball is currently about 1 gig.
<lucas> (don't they have a backup system ?)
<lucas> oh, this is quite small
<tseng> 1gb isnt quite small if you want to have daily/weekly backups forever
<siretart> lucas: tiber is not in the DC of canonical
<siretart> lucas: it is rented by canonical at serverpronto.com
<siretart> last time I looked, they didn't offer free backups, I think
<lucas> siretart: it doesn't mean they can't do backups
<lucas> tseng: tarballs are very inefficient
<lucas> you could you rsync based stuff
<sistpoty> siretart: 1) do serverpronto offer a backup system? 2) are revu-uploads backup'd as well?
<lucas> I use dirvish for backups for example
<siretart> sistpoty: no, revu uploads are not backed up. 
<ajmitch> siretart: rsync is preferable to a tarball every week
<sistpoty> siretart: ah, good... otherwise we really needed to tidy these *g* (and fix the remove functionality)
<ajmitch> well rdiff-backup is better still :)
<lucas> ajmitch: yeah but I'm used to dirvish ;)
<siretart> hm. if I read that correctly, serverpronto seem to offer 2gb ftp space for free..
<siretart> mom phon
<lucas> there are lots of good backup solutions
<lucas> we don't need to use a custom-made one, especially involving FTP ;)
<lucas> I know ubuntu-fr.org has bought several servers with some donations
<lucas> I could ask whether they could donate some disk space for backups
<siretart> lucas: let me talk to joerg, my hoster of tauware.de. I think he has no problems with putting those tarballs on tauware.de
<siretart> lucas: tauware.de is on a raid and backupped daily
<lucas> siretart: you should really do something else than tarballs
<lucas> usually, with tarballs, you make a mistake, then the next cron job overwrites the last good tarball, and you lose everything
<\sh> argl...
<siretart> hi \sh 
<sistpoty> hi \sh
<siretart> :)
<\sh> just forgot the meeting..damn...sorry
<siretart> lucas: perhaps rsync snapshots would be better. Let me talk to joerg about this
<lucas> rsync alone doesn't solve the problem
<lucas> you have to keep a short history
<lucas> (like 1, 3, 7, 14, days, 1 month)
<ajmitch> otherwise what good is it if you suddenly have 0 byte files in /etc that get backed up & no replacement ;)
<siretart> yes. you mean a decent rotation script
<sistpoty> but I still would really appreciate if these snapshots are only done to prevent disk corruption. (so that nobody even thinks about "I accidentilly removed xyz, can you restore it plz?")
<\sh> well....
<siretart> sistpoty: we could setup a convinience rsnapshot locally for that
<lucas> sistpoty: how often do you backup your desktop system ?
<\sh> the bzr archives will go sometime onto the canonical bazaar server (hint HCT)
<sistpoty> lucas: I don't, and had no real losses so far
* siretart on every boot, but not offsite, only on the second hard drive
<\sh> and everybody should have local backups
<lucas> sistpoty: you have been lucky so far
<siretart> \sh: right. note the 'sometime', it is not there yet, and I don't expect that in near future
<sistpoty> lucas: no, once the old hdd made noises I bought a new one (well, so I have *some* backup) *g*
<ajmitch> siretart: bzr branches are already on launchpad
<lucas> you never removed files by mistake ?
<\sh> ajmitch: upstream archives..yes
<\sh> ajmitch: but not distro specific
<ajmitch> \sh: I mean just bzr branches, not the packaging stuff
<siretart> ajmitch: how do you push changes to those branches on launchpad?
<sistpoty> lucas: sure did I, but nothing really important (I tend to keep important stuff stored in several places)
<ajmitch> siretart: ask #launchpad, I haven't tried :)
<lucas> ajmitch: I don't think it works
<\sh> siretart: you don't :) it's an automatic task :) the last time I asked because of gajim, it was even an manual task 
<\sh> actually this bzr stuff is part of hct for the future.
<ajmitch> \sh: we're mainly caring about bzr for scripts & tools at the moment
<ajmitch> not hct
<\sh> and to be honest...what do we need to backup from tiber? the only important stuff from my home e.g. are the bzr archives. which can be tarred
<tseng> revu?
<ajmitch> that's what we're talking about backing up..
<\sh> revu can be tarred and dumped
<lucas> we could live without backups
<lucas> but I think it has to be clearly announced
<sistpoty> well, it would be quite a loss if revu-uploads or the database with comments were lost
<\sh> well..for ours sake we can do tarring and sql dumping revu etc. but we should not do it officially
<sistpoty> as in much work lost
<siretart> \sh: right. I intend to do weekly dumps of /etc, /srv, /home to my private place. the discussion is currently diverging a bit
<\sh> siretart: I have space too and bandwidth...if you need something...please poke me :)
<sistpoty> ok, anything else about backups?
<lucas> I don't think so
<siretart> \sh: oh. then lets talk about details later, okay?
<sistpoty> ok, then a small point from me (which is not on the agenda): current motu work
<\sh> siretart: k
<sistpoty> well, what do we have? bugfixing, unmet deps and new packages...
<sistpoty> I'm sorry, I didn't write anything to properly handle unmet deps yet... is someone actually working on unmet packages?
<sistpoty> or on a tool to work on unmet deps?
<sistpoty> ajmitch, siretart?
* lucas doesn't
<lucas> unmet build-dep or unmet Depends/Recommends ?
<ajmitch> sistpoty: yes?
<sistpoty> ajmitch: you once started on s.th. to find out packages with unmet deps? any progress?
<sistpoty> lucas: unmet Depends/Recommends
<siretart> sistpoty: sorry, I'm too busy right now
<smurf> sistpoty: Just install everything, you'll notice which packages break. ;-)
<sistpoty> hehe
<siretart> sistpoty: I only have this for now http://tiber.tauware.de/~siretart/unmet/dapper-unmet.txt
<ajmitch> sistpoty: no, I haven't done much on anything motu-related lately
<lucas> a script to pick up unmet depends/recommends should be quite easy to write
<siretart> this is the output from 'apt-cache -i unmet' on i386. I can easily create those for ppc and amd64 as well
<sistpoty> ok, since I don't know when I'll have some generated list ready, what about using the wiki (once again) as an interim solution?
<siretart> lucas: apt-cache -i unmet also reports about broken recommends
<lucas> ok
<siretart> the output is not very clear at all
<siretart> ajmitch: didn't you say you managed to do something with britney?
<ajmitch> siretart: yes
<ajmitch> siretart: but it's not ready for general consumption
<\sh> the problem with the last unmet deps run during breezy was that there was a misunderstanding
<ajmitch> it may kill kittens when run, etc
<siretart> ajmitch: does that output help more than http://tiber.tauware.de/~siretart/unmet/dapper-unmet.txt?
<ajmitch> siretart: if I make it so
<sistpoty> \sh: in what way?
<siretart> \sh: what do you mean with 'unmet deps run'?
<siretart> that list is generated daily
<\sh> sistpoty: unmet deps means: "some of the deps a package tries to install is broken" but that a dep itself can be broken..so we need to make sure, to communicate that
<\sh> siretart: breezy :)
<ajmitch> \sh: that was what I was trying to do
<\sh> ajmitch: cool :) I just wanted to mention that :) 
<siretart> \sh: ah, thats britney
<sistpoty> \sh: sure, we need to write that up ;)
<lucas> how could a dep be broken ?
<siretart> lucas: broken == not satifiable
<lucas> ok and what's the other one then ? ;)
<sistpoty> lucas: cannot be installable due to dep on the dep's package 
<\sh> lucas: e.g. apt-get install bla -> bla deps on foo -> foo deps on fubac and fubac is ftbfs
<\sh> so a rebuild doesn't work ... and fubac is not shown directly
<siretart> lucas: try 'apt-get -s install zope3' on a current dapper system and see what happens
<siretart> you will get this output:
<siretart>   zope3: Depends: python2.4-mechanize (>= 0.0.10a) but it is not installable
<ajmitch> siretart: yes, I filed a bug about that :P
<sistpoty> ok, still the question: do we want to use the wiki to coordinate the work, unless we don't have another list-tool?
<siretart> btw, I remember we had a zope team. who was that?
<ajmitch> siretart: me
<siretart> ajmitch: only you? - ooh
<ajmitch> siretart: well doko as well, for stuff in main
<siretart> I see
<ajmitch> and herve when he's been around, which hasn't been often
<siretart> oh, zope3 is in main. interesting
<ajmitch> which is why I did those zope merges :)
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> zope 2.x was in main for breezy, but has been demoted to universe
<siretart> hm. I wanted to play around with zope anyway. hmmhmm
<siretart> no not now :)
<sistpoty> please, get back on topic ;)
<ajmitch> siretart: it's not like I'm alone, since it's really the debian/ubuntu zope team ;)
<ajmitch> sistpoty: this is on-topic ;)
<sistpoty> hehe
<lucas> regarding FTBFS packages
<lucas> I have a script that pbuilds a list of packages and output the build logs in directories depending on the result
<ajmitch> yes, that was done for breezy as well
<lucas> (I ran it against ruby packages already)
* ajmitch has a script in his bzr repository for that also
<\sh> well...
<sistpoty> we had test-builds from the buildds for breezy, didn't we?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> it was often more useful than pbuilder
<\sh> if it's pbuilding, you can find out only the obvious ftbfs...but our buildds are different and sometimes showing different ftbfs mess
<sistpoty> s.o. should talk to lamont|infinity, so that we have these again (more in time for dapper)
<ajmitch> \sh: yep, and my box was a bit slow to do lots of pbuilder work ;)
<lamont-work> needs to be run again, not sure where it sits in relation to the launchpad migration
<ajmitch> hi lamont
<sistpoty> hi lamont-work
<ajmitch> amazing who shows up when you mention them
<sistpoty> lamont-work: any chance to start test-builds soon?
<lamont-work> sistpoty: starting them is something that goes through elmo before me...
<\sh> sistpoty: I think we have to wait for the launchpadders and soyuz
<sistpoty> ah, k
<sistpoty> note to self, ping elmo about that
<\sh> lamont-work: any ETA on soyuz?
<lamont-work> \sh: I'm out-of-loop
<siretart> \sh: on saturday, there were some testuploads done
<ajmitch> there was an update mail on the launchpad-users list about it
<\sh> lamont-work: ok :)
<lucas> ok. any other points ?
<sistpoty> if not, date and time of next meeting... any proposals?
<lucas> could everybody give their names again, for the minutes ?
* lucas is LucasNussbaum
* sistpoty is StefanPotyra
<lucas> Feb 15th, 21 UTC ?
<sistpoty> ok with me
* ajmitch will skip the next meeting
<lucas> then we can do it at 20 UTC ;)
<sistpoty> also ok, for me
<sistpoty> if nothing needs discussion any more, meeting adjourned :)
* siretart is ReinhardTartler
<siretart> ok
<ajmitch> the meeting time is agreed then?
<lucas> I'll put the minutes on the wiki in a few minutes
<ajmitch> oh well
<lucas> ajmitch: we can discuss it again later
<sistpoty> ajmitch: seems like it... at least nobody cried, but we can do another poll or discuss it on the ML
<ajmitch> sistpoty: I won't be there then
<lucas> which time of day would suit you ?
<sistpoty> but at least we have a proposal, ppl. should shout if they don't like it :)
* ajmitch doesn't matter
<ajmitch> I may not even have much net access then
<ajmitch> I don't know at the moment :)
<lucas> ok
<sistpoty> goes for me one month later probably (since I'm moving then)
<ajmitch> but there are > 30 MOTUs, so finding a time that suits even all the active ones is impossible
<siretart> right
<sistpoty> ok, I'm off again... cya
<lucas> ok, could somebody review and fix https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings/2005-02-01 ?
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-02-07
* earobinson-away is away: I'm currently away, please leave a message
* earobinson is back (gone 00:00:12)
<ulinskie> why is my wiki on ubuntu saying password din not match if I change the theme in user preferences
<JaneW> hello
<ogra> yello
<Riddell> hi
<ajmitch> hi
<pitti> moin
<Kamion> hi
<dholbach> HELLO
<JaneW> jbailey sends appologies as does mjg59
<JaneW> BenC: ping
<dholbach> JaneW: you should do a CALL in the room. :-)
<Simira> JaneW: are they sick also now?
<JaneW> you means SPEAK?
<Mithrandir> dudes&dudettes
<ogra> dudettes ? 
* fabbione waves
<dholbach> duderettes
<mdz> good morning
<JaneW> we are missing BenC still
<ogra> dholbach, sounds like a gay dancegroup :)
<mdz> should we do this in the usual way, or by more physical means?
<dholbach> ogra: haha :)
<JaneW> I had no appologies from him
<JaneW> jbailey sends appologies as does mjg59
* fabbione suggests more physical means.. like sumo
<Mithrandir> ogra: JaneW and Simira at least are clearly not dudes, but dudettes.
<ajmitch> mdz: it'd be nice to see the updates if possible
<dholbach> fabbione: woohoo! :)
<JaneW> mdz: the community asked for an on-line meeting as usual
<mdz> ajmitch: the report would still go out as usual, of course
<JaneW> true
<JaneW> mdz: but then I'd have to do ALL the typing ;)
<Mithrandir> haha
<ogra> dont we copy and paste all from prepared docs anyway ... ?
<mdz> JaneW: presumably everyone has prepared their reports as usual, and could paste them in addition to talking
<JaneW> ok
<mdz> but we can do it here also
<ogra> lets just do the copy/paste thing here and discuss in RL
<mdz> mjg59 is apparently planning to drop by this afternoon
<mdz> no word from BenC?
<mdz> ok, starting from the bottom then
<mdz> Riddell?
<JaneW> BenC: is prolly asleep
<Riddell> done:  kpdf ported to poppler with pitti did not succeed with kword, investigate kdm for debconf preseed issue (couldn't find a problem, neither could kamion, needs further investigation), various kubuntu.org website updates
<Riddell> kubuntu-roadmap-dapper: kde 3.5.1 all released, only 1 problem reported now fixed, (working with backport Mez to get it backported), move amarok/kaffeine to xine
<Riddell> langpacks-desktopfiles: investigated for KDE, looks possible if careful to avoid kconfig/klocale loop
<Riddell> kubuntu-express: reading kamion's code
<Riddell> todo: more kubuntu-express, get network-manager working so I can investigate getting knetworkmanager working
<mdz> JaneW: your reminder went out with enough advance notice
<mdz> to set an alarm clock
<JaneW> mdz: yes about 18 hours before...
<mdz> Riddell,pitti: is kword still pending, or is it not worth the effort?
<JaneW> Riddell: 3 of your specs are red as they haven't been approved yet...
<pitti> mdz: it's an awful lot of work, since it still uses xpdf 2
<Riddell> mdz: it's not worth the effort, we need to decide if we want to ship the pdf importer or not
<pitti> mdz: which has completely different classes, etc
<mdz> (note that the approver doesn't get any asynchronous notification of these, so if a spec needs review, the assignee needs to tell them)
<Riddell> JaneW: kubuntu-express I think is pending review by Kamion 
<JaneW> Kamion: can you check it please? ^
<mdz> ok
<Kamion> ok, will eyeball after the meeting
<mdz> thanks, Riddell
<mdz> is sivang in attendance?
<Riddell> JaneW: simplify-kde isn't on my list but should be
<JaneW> sivan is not here: he has not made further progress but is still hoping to complete in time for dapper
<JaneW> he'll let us know in the next 2 weeks is it is going to need to be deferred
<JaneW> Riddell: ok, I'll check that
<mdz> seb128: next?
<seb128> this week: new GNOME
<seb128> next week: dapper-desktop-plan, bug catchup, gstreamer0.8 out of the desktop (gstreamer 0.10 rocks!)
<mdz> seb128: how does video-playback look?
<Riddell> seb128: can evolution-plugins use gstreamer 0.10?
<mdz> since xine is now split, we have that option if gstreamer 0.10 doesn't solve the issues, right?
<seb128> Riddell: not yet but we don't care about it, we can drop it
<Riddell> sorted
<seb128> mdz: correct, but gst0.10 looks great
<seb128> A/V sink is much better
<mdz> it works well for me, but I think we need more feedback
<Keybuk> gst plays all known videos of mdz sleeping
<mdz> seb128,Kamion: please make sure that it's mentioned in the next Flight announcement with a call for video testing
<JaneW> Keybuk: heh
<pitti> gst 0.10 works well for me, too
<mdz> include a link to a sample video
<seb128> and reactivity, switching between files, moving in a file, etc are much better too
<mdz> (no, not THAT sample video)
<dholbach> :-)
<ogra> lol
<Kamion> mdz: noted
<seb128> mdz: agreed, extra feedback would be nice
<dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Media/Testing
<Keybuk> Dapper Dance.ogg
<Kamion> BenC noted lack of DVD support
<mdz> seb128: DVD support is coming, right?
<seb128> it's known, plugin needs to be ported
<mdz> just lags behind
<seb128> its not done yet but they are working on it, should be fine for dapper
* Kamion nods
<mdz> ok
<mdz> seb128: thanks
<mdz> pitti?
<pitti>  * hacked kpdf to use poppler instead of static modified xpdf copy
<pitti>  * updated network-manager to work with linux-wlan-ng
<pitti>  * cleaned up and updated locales and locale binaries
<pitti>  * finished openssl transition for main (only package left is python2.3 on ia64+sparc)
<pitti>  * misc: various bug fixes, new gnome-volume-manager, some libdb4.3 transitions
<pitti> no progress on specs this week
<pitti> next week:
<pitti>  * play with gnome-power-manager on powerpc and try to find a reasonable solution for the event handling conflict with pbbuttonsd
<pitti>  * finish langpacks-desktopfiles for .server files (together with zyga)
<pitti>  * catch up on bug triage
<pitti> oh, and a pending PHP security update with Adam
<pitti> (some other security updates as well)
<fabbione> pitti: python2.3 is FTBFS because of aa missing B-D.. i will dig into that later
<pitti> fabbione: yay
<mdz> pitti: how many packages are involved for the db4.3 transition?
<pitti> it's hopefully going into universe anyway, but still
<mdz> we could divide them up and perhaps finish in a short time
<pitti> mdz: oo.o is basically the only one
<pitti> oh, and openldsp
<mdz> oh, good
<pitti> ldap, even
<mdz> heh
<JaneW> pitti: there is interest in the firewall spec again - is it too late for dapper?
<mdz> ltsp + ldap = ldsp
<pitti> but oo.o seems to be particularly hard
<mdz> JaneW: from whom?
<pitti> openldap probably uses transactions, so we need to be a bit carful
<JaneW> mdz: casten (original google bounty guy and Krishna)
<mdz> doko: is there someone we can bounty the libdb/oo.o project to?
<pitti> JaneW: I read the mail, but didn't followup yet
<pitti> mdz: basically, Carsten never get an answer to his bounty proposal
<JaneW> piti: ok let me know when you assess it
<pitti> s/get/got/
<mdz> JaneW: I don't think there is time to complete it by feature freeze; they are welcome to work on it of course and we can take a decision then
<pitti> JaneW: it's not going to be finished for FF
<ogra> its pretty late ... less than 3 weeks, but if they are confident to finish it ....
<JaneW> mdz: ok thanks
<pitti> at least not the complete spec
<JaneW> pitti: it was just UI missing AFAIR
<pitti> but at least we could have the basic stuff working in dapper
<pitti> JaneW: no, it was 'just the implementation' what was missing :(
<mdz> pitti: that's my fault; I am down to 56 messages in inbox but that is one of them
<ogra> heh
<pitti> it didn't work at all after SoC
<JaneW> oh :(
<pitti> but since Carsten had to do it for uni anyway, I hope that it's better nowadays
<ajmitch> pitti: that's a shame, I've seen a few people wanting that (but without the skills to code it)
<mdz> pitti: please review the proposal; you can judge whether it is reasonable
<pitti> mdz: ok
<mdz> we can still fund a bounty for it even if it can't target dapper 
<pitti> wrt openldap, I'll look into it if infinity can't do it soon
<mdz> we do want it eventually
<pitti> yes, agreed
<mdz> pitti: s/can't do it soon/doesn't survive/
<mdz> pitti: do you have a copy of the firewall proposal or shall I forward it?
<mdz> you were CCed originally
<pitti> mdz: I hace it
<mdz> ok
<pitti> have, even
* pitti is still used to his Kinesis keyboard
<mdz> ok, thanks
<mdz> ogra?
<ogra> * thin-client-memory-usage: initramfs netboot mode implemented
<ogra> * thin-client-faster-startup: final spec changes, approved  
<ogra> * gnome-screensaver-default-image: no work done this week
<ogra> * general: ltsp debugging, traveling, sprint
<ogra> * next week:  debconf debugging (to be able to set VideoRam, DefaultDepth and other X values for the memory usage spec), implement ltsp faster startup, ltsp bugfixing, merge the changes in my various ltsp trees. implement peres xauth fix with mdz's changes. care for edubuntu-artwork gdm theme handling.
* ajmitch will paste an update on the selinux work at the end if that's ok
<ogra> sadly cant update my specs... launchpad doesnt like me today
<dholbach> ogra: Mithrandir had the same problems.
<JaneW> ogra: thin client faster start-up is red, can you push the spec to approved soon?
<mdz> ogra: is netboot the default for ltsp-build-client now?
<ogra> mdz, yup
<mdz> cool
<Mithrandir> dholbach: uh, what problems?
<ogra> :)
<Mithrandir> dholbach: the ekiga stuff?
<dholbach> Mithrandir: accessing your specs on launchpad?
<ogra> Mithrandir, LP
<Mithrandir> oh, yes.
<dholbach> :)
<mdz> ogra: if the launchpad timeouts are recurring (even after a reload) or something other than a timeout is happening, send me the OOPS codes
<Mithrandir> it works if I go to +assignedspecs, though
<mdz> I'm not having a problem there
<ogra> mdz, will do
<mdz> ogra: thanks
<mdz> mvo?
<ogra> Mithrandir, oh thanks !
<mvo> Did:
<mvo> - AutomaticUpgrades:
<mvo>   - testing
<mvo>   - evaluted user feedback
<mvo>   - fixed some packages that broke upgrades
<mvo>   - send report about current status of the upgrade to ubuntu-devel
<mvo>   - started to write a NonInteractive DistUpgrade tester to autotest problems during the dist-upgrade
<mvo>   - BIG problem: a single failed pkg makes a upgrade stop halfway through
<mvo> - misc stuff [gksu statup notification, HIGification on language-seelctor, update-manager)
<mvo> - traveld, sprint, got sick
<mvo> Will do:
<mvo> - finish the non-interactive dist-upgrade autotester
<mvo> - gnome-app-install new-look branch finish and upload
<mdz> mvo demoed AutomaticUpgrades here at the sprint earlier this week; it's looking good
<mdz> all you lurkers out there should test it
<JaneW> mvo: default apt sources? Is it still going to get done?
<mvo> and don't forget to send me logs if you test it!
<mvo> JaneW: yes, I'm confident in that one
<mdz> it's in braindump currently
<JaneW> mvo: ok good, approved spec please (or else straight to implemented) ;)
<mdz> JaneW: did mjg59 send any update?   we can hassle him in a few hours if not
<mdz> mvo: thanks
<ogra> JaneW, thin-client-faster startup is not red in my launchpad overview ...
<JaneW> mdz: yes
<JaneW> mjg59 JaneW: Basically, everything's sorted - libpam-foreground and gnome-power-manager need to be added to desktop
<JaneW> ogra: it's read cos it's not yet approved
<Kamion> as pitti said gnome-power-manager needs some work on powerpc
<ogra> JaneW, it was approved this morning
<mjg59> g-p-m should be fine on ppc, hal may need some loving
<mdz> seb128,dholbach: do you concur re: g-p-m?
<JaneW> ogra: oic, excellent, thanks :)
<ogra> JaneW, (and has the right status in LP)
<mjg59> And pbbuttons probably needs to go
<pitti> mjg59: event handling of pbbuttonsd and g-p-m should conflict, don't they?
<JaneW> ogra: I haven;t checked the changes this am yet
<mdz> if so, please go ahead and seed
* mjg59 leaves for a real meeting
<pitti> mjg59: g-p-m depends p-m-i depends pbbuttonsd
<mdz> mjg59: still coming by later?
<slomo> mjg59: pbbuttonsd is still needed for brightness setting etc
<JaneW> hi jbailey 
<pitti> slomo: no, gnome-settings-daaemon does that for ages
<mjg59> mdz: Yeah
<ogra> mdz, i'll care for the seeding ...
<seb128> mdz: I didn't really played with g-p-m, maybe dholbach?
<mjg59> pitti: Well, that can be fixed
<mdz> mjg59: ok, see you later then
<mjg59> slomo: No it's not - hal can do that
<pitti> we already had to cripple pbbuttonsd a lot 
<seb128> s/played/play
<dholbach> mdz: a bit and it looked good from what i saw.
<mdz> ok
<mdz> let's go ahead then
<pitti> mjg59: so g-p-m doesn't use pmi?
<mdz> libpam-foreground also
<ogra> pitti, it does ...
<mdz> mjg59: thanks
<mdz> Mithrandir?
<mjg59> pitti: It does, but that only needs pbbuttons to make one ioctl
<mjg59> Anyway, we'll talk abou this later
<ogra> pitti, (hal does in fact)
<pitti> yes
<Mithrandir> openoffice-amd64: no progress
<Mithrandir> live-cd-performance: no further progress
<Mithrandir> simplified-livecd: support for putting the live image on USB stick/hard drive added, support for persistency in a loopback (ext2/ext3/whatever) filesystem on vfat added, keymapper stuff Not Yet There, now autoconfigures all found network devices
* mjg59 goes to a real life meeting
<Mithrandir> misc: distro sprint death plague struck, been having useful discussions with Colin about espresso and how I can help once I get my specs out of the way.  Apache sprint was very productive even though we ended up with a decision to not put 2.2 in dapper due to external modules not being ready.
<Mithrandir> probe-for-root-filesystem: started on it today, will hopefully be completed today as well.
<Mithrandir> blocked on: access to popcon.ubuntu.com
<Mithrandir> (the blocked on is not for a spec, but for getting popcon going again)
<mdz> Mithrandir: is there anything from the original simplified-livecd spec which isn't complete yet, or can it be marked implemented?
<Mithrandir> we don't handle keyboard maps yet
<mdz> Mithrandir: is popcon a sysadmin request? if so, please send the RT ticket number by email
<Mithrandir> yes, it is.
<Kamion> (gfxboot passes the keymap - casper just needs to do something with that)
<mdz> ok, good
<Mithrandir> I think it's waiting for admins to set up a replacement for the current machine
<mdz> Mithrandir: can we use probe-for-root-filesystem for casper-on-USB as well as install-on-USB?
<Mithrandir> casper-on-usb is already there, and no, it's a bit different.  probe-for-root-filesystem seems to just need grub-installer changes, not changes in the installed system.
<Mithrandir> Scott has already fixed udev to DTRT when you pass root=/dev/disk/by-uuid/${...}
<mdz> Keybuk,Mithrandir: still planning to have a readahead chat while you're here?
<mdz> Mithrandir: casper-on-usb just searches around for something with a filesystem image on it, then?
<Kamion> Mithrandir: yaboot-installer too?
<Kamion> though that might be hairier
<Keybuk> mdz: yeah, will still have that chat
<Mithrandir> Kamion: that too, but I can't test that in anything resembling a useful way.
<Kamion> open firmware being the weird-shit that it is
<fabbione> i suggest to skip ppc for this feature
<Mithrandir> mdz: with a fairly restricted set of "something", yes.  It doesn't try to look in ext2/ext3 partitions, for instance.
<Keybuk> Mithrandir: the caveat is that it doesn't work if you need ide-generic (because it doesn't know to load it)
<Kamion> if anyone here has a firewire drive, actually, that might be useful
<Mithrandir> Kamion: I have an ieee1394 dvd-rw in Oslo
<Mithrandir> so, probably not useful.
<Kamion> not so much
<mdz> Keybuk: can we arrange for that to be loaded in this case?
<mvo> Kamion: I have one
<Keybuk> mdz: then it'd break your laptop
<Kamion> mvo: cool, will talk later
<mdz> Keybuk: I don't use root=/dev/disk/by-uuid/foo on my laptop
<Keybuk> right, but you wouldn't be able to use it either
<Keybuk> including whatever Tollef was doing
<mdz> the plan so far is only to use this method if root is on a removable device
<Keybuk> removable devices are always SCSI
<Keybuk> (in Linuxworld)
<fabbione> Keybuk: nope 
<Mithrandir> Keybuk: udevinfo can give you the path, though
<Keybuk> fabbione: the IDE subsystem has no concept of of "removable"
<fabbione> Keybuk: you don't use IDE at all there
<Keybuk> Mithrandir: chcken and egg
<Keybuk> in practice this shouldn't be a problem
<Keybuk> if we only use /dev/disk/by-*/* for "removable" devices, then we only care about the SCSI subsystem
<Mithrandir> Keybuk: how so?  I'm thinking of doing it in the installer, where you'd see the drive or not.  If you don't see it in the installer, you lose.
<Keybuk> and that will all work fine
<mdz> Mithrandir: oo.o-amd64 seems a lost cause at this point, no?
<Keybuk> Mithrandir: let's discuss the problem with clarity in a bit
<Mithrandir> mdz: I guess so.. the current solution works, while it's not pretty.
<mdz> let's officially defer it, then
<Mithrandir> 'k
<mdz> dapper+1 material
<mdz> thanks, Mithrandir
<mdz> Keybuk?
<Keybuk> streamlined-boot: remaining changes are to the cleanup scripts and improving readahead; no new breakages expected
<Keybuk> network-magic: testing of n-m underway, when it works, it's great.  going to modify it to work better for us, and then decide whether it's ship-able or desktop-able.  resolv.conf bug fixed in ifupdown, still to write iftab helper for udev but it's high on todo now.
<doko> Mithrandir: how do the -experimental OOo2 packages work?
<mdz> Keybuk: should probably get streamlined-boot reviewed and approved, considering it's nearly implemented
<Kamion> Keybuk: oh, we should sit down and sort out netcfg udev rule generation so that interface names don't change between the installer and the target system
<fabbione> or between reboots. kthxbye
<mdz> Keybuk: maybe sit down with Kamion and go over the changes you've made vs. the spec
<mdz> Kamion: I believe that's just waiting for Keybuk to implement iftab support in udev
<JaneW> Keybuk: streamlined boot, is the spec going to be approved? - or straight to implemnted?
<Kamion> mdz: that works too, I guess
<mdz> the installer can continue to write iftab
<Keybuk> mdz, JaneW: yeah, I should probably ...errr... write that spec ;)
<mdz> it involves quite a few different changes and would benefit from some peer review
<JaneW> Keybuk: thanks, that would be good ;) 
<mdz> Keybuk: thanks
<mdz> Kamion?
<Kamion> cd-bootloader: Added an accessibility menu for UbuntuExpress/Accessibility.
<Kamion> ubuntu-express: Uploaded an initial working-for-me version; and have spent a fair bit of the distro sprint polishing away some of the really egregious bugs. Made cdebconf and debconf coinstallable and added preliminary support for using cdebconf here; initial testing suggests it doesn't provide really noticeable speed benefits, but it may help avoid some compatibility bugs. Started bringing Tollef up to speed on wher
<Kamion> e things are. Added first cut at a to-do list on the wiki (UbuntuExpress/ToDo) so that Tollef and Jonathan can dive in.
<Kamion> misc: Some system-config-kickstart maintenance (I'm working on getting this stuff into Debian so we don't necessarily have to worry about maintaining it ourselves so much).
<Kamion> next-week: Shake up the Espresso component API to allow for running debconffiltered processes asynchronously, which will let me massively improve UI responsiveness in the first few steps. Start on the missing UI steps (language, keymap, location/timezone). Thinking about killing archive-copier by default since it's not all that necessary any more.
<JaneW> I have jbailey's update...
<mdz> Kamion: is there implementation work to be done for the localized help in cd-bootloader, or just translations?
<Kamion> mdz: implementation, basically just file-shuffling
<jbailey> JaneW: Please, thanks.
<mdz> Kamion: ready for  a live espresso demo after the meeting?
<jbailey> (I wrote it in the email to you and don't have it handy. *g*)
<Mithrandir> mdz: I'm hogging his machine for grub-installer foo, so preferably not. :-)
<Kamion> mdz: sure, will need a bit of prep time though since Tollef's stolen the test box for other things
<Mithrandir> or at least not right away.
<mdz> definitely today though
<Kamion> certainly
<iwj> kamion: You can use this test box here ...
<mdz> preferably before lunch, while we're all focused together
<Kamion> iwj: ok, thanks
<mdz> or directly after lunch
<mdz> Kamion: thanks
<JaneW> jbailey : * ToolchainRoadmapNg: Led a group discussion at the Distro Sprint with
<JaneW> doko - See http://people.ubuntu.com/~jbailey/thinclient.txtfor initial
<JaneW> brainstorm. For those interested in participating, please see
<JaneW> http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/20060131_dropping-pre-i686_jbailey-doko.oggand post comments to ubuntu-devel and put [small]  in the subject.
<JaneW> jbailey: * ToolchainRoadmap: Providing timezones directly from upstream tzdata
<JaneW> going well. Targetting to upload tomorrow (Friday 02 Feb). 
<JaneW> * LocalesThatDontSuck: Update from Belocs locales coordinated with
<JaneW> pitti. This will move localedef out of glibc and into a separate binary
<JaneW> package.
<JaneW> General: Distro sprint this week. Avoided the plague (/me knocks wood).
<JaneW> Spent time talking with Martin about Main Inclusion and support. 
<mdz> jbailey: what remains on ToolchainRoadmap, for your part?
<mdz> same question for belocs
<pitti> belocs is basically done now
<pitti> with this morning's uploads
<jbailey> mdz: Just these last tweaks to make updating timezones not suck across 5 years.  Other than that it's just the usual set of bugs.
<mdz> pitti: ok, if so, please mark as implemented
<doko> mdz: ToolchainRoadmap+1: need to think how we go on with a breezy/dapper test build
<pitti> jbailey: belocs had a separate spec?
<jbailey> mdz: ToolchainRoadmap+1 is behind because of the lack of test build.  I think it was due in December, but depended on Soyuz.
<jbailey> pitti: LocalesThatDontSuck is the wiki page.  Lemme look up what we called it in Launchpad.
<mdz> doko,jbailey: I see no reason why a dapper-autotest couldn't be done right away, in terms of infrastructure
<mdz> (using katie and wanna-build)
<jbailey> mdz: How do we coordinate that?
<mdz> same as the last few times, via lamont/infinity/elmo
<mdz> soyuz won't have a snazzy autotest capability for a while; it'd have to be done more or less by hand there as well
<pitti> jbailey: don't worry, this one is implemented for ages
<mdz> so no point in waiting for that
<doko> mdz: let's discuss this in person, it didn't work well last time
<jbailey> Cool, hopefully next week (subject to infinity jetlag and elmo time)
<mdz> doko: hmm, ok
<mdz> jbailey: thanks
<mdz> iwj?
<jbailey> pitti: Right.  It's even called "Belocs-locales" =)
<iwj> AutomatedTesting:  Announcement to go out RSN; found a few bugs which I want to get out first.
<iwj> Firefox: Some bugfixes (including turning offesddsp) uploaded early this week.  pygnome coredump will hopefully be fixed RSN.  Anyone else have a firefox problem they want to demo for me ?
<iwj> DefaultApplicationsFirefox: no change since last report.
<iwj> DeveloperDocumentation: Not started, not blocked.
<iwj> Death plague: I'm more or less recovered but I still feel very thickheaded today.
<Keybuk> *ahem* ... X bug
<iwj> Bugs backlog: awful.
<jbailey> pitti: I'll look over the spec later to make sure that it reflects what we actually implemented.
<iwj> Email backlog: none.
<mdz> iwj: pygnome coredump?
<seb128> is that the gtkmozembed crasher?
<iwj> mdz: There's a bug which makes pymozgnombed or whatever it's called crash.
<iwj> Yes.
<mdz> ah
<seb128> nice to get that one fixed
* mvo nods
<Kamion> yeah, I ripped gtkmozembed out of espresso to avoid that :)
<Kamion> (that code path sucked anyway ...)
<mdz> firefox (sans flash) has been behaving pretty well for me
<mvo> I use gtkhtml2 in gnome-app-installright now
<mvo> but ...
<iwj> mdz: Good.
<doko> iwj: there are Firefox problems on amd64
<Mithrandir> doko: oh, what?
<iwj> doko: Still ?
<ogra> not herre
<ogra> -r
<iwj> Where then ? :-)
<doko> iwj, Mithrandir: still the same as reported in launchpad, looking up the number ...
<dholbach> Is there any upstream bug about pygtkmozembed?
<iwj> dholbach: Not that I know of but I haven't had a thorough look.
<mdz> ok
<mdz> infinity is bedridden
<mdz> thanks iwj
<mdz> fabbione? 
<fabbione> sec
<fabbione> vim died
<ajmitch> this plague sounds serious
<fabbione> * server-candy: done last cleanup for system-integrity-check still blocked on admins to prepare the server.
<fabbione> * ubuntu-cluster: no progress.
<fabbione> * boot-from-usb: implemented.
<fabbione> * last week: Apache2.2 sprint, distro sprint. Details have gone into Jane's reports.
<fabbione> * this week: distro sprint: server candy work and a lot of small things: fix a few FTBFS, fixed a kernel regression in .12 for a scsi driver that made the system unbootable (needs porting to dapper). Created ubuntu-x-swat team for X server maintainance (suicide is less painful). Started looking at X... no really..
<fabbione> * next week: world peace.
<JaneW> mdz: I'll get an update from infinity if he emerges
<ogra> uh, he switched to gentoo ?
<ajmitch> ogra: bad pun 
<ogra> :)
<mdz> fabbione: is server-candy blocked, or not?  you say it's blocked, but that you will work on it this week
<fabbione> mdz: i cannot upload to the archive is the admins do not provide the server.
<fabbione> mdz: i can still do code cleanup and test locally
<fabbione> but clearly it would be nice that if i can actually get a wide spreaded test
<fabbione> RT#723
<mdz> sysadmin has some high priority things coming in right now due to soyuz and sparc, but I'll see what can be done
<mdz> meanwhile, X bugs need your sweet loving
<fabbione> mdz: yes i know about that. tho 723 is from UBZ or so
<mdz> fabbione: yes, but we need to deal with the present :-)
<fabbione> mdz: yeah i know.. please reassing them to the SWAT team
<mdz> fabbione: thanks for updates
<mdz> doko?
<doko> [status] 
<doko> - no changes from last week, besides
<doko> - openoffice.org: don't stick with 2.0.1, but start working
<doko>   on upgrades to current milestones leading to 2.0.2.
<doko> [this week] 
<doko> - distrosprint
<doko> - fixing sparc specific bugs
<doko> - practical virus testing (should be fixed now)
<doko> [still to do for this week] 
<doko> - ISDN testing, together with mvo
<mdz> doko: openoffice-gnome?
<doko> mdz: the martink bounty? 
<mdz> doko: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OpenOfficeGnome
<mdz> marked approved, high priority in LP
<mdz> doko: regarding martink, if he completed the work to your satisfaction, please send me mail to that effect so that we can close out the bounty
<JaneW> doko: java-roadmap spec still needs to be approved...
<mdz> I'm the approver on that one, didn't realize it was pending
<mdz> er
<JaneW> tsk tsk, we really need that auto-mailer functionality...
<mdz> the link from LP to the spec is broken
<mdz> there is no JavaRoadmap in the wiki, hence nothing to approve
<doko> mdz: the "my defaults" are underspecified, a suggestion from a user. font hinting was low priority, there's a workaround using environment variables, but not gnome integration
<JaneW> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDownUnder/BOFs/JavaRoadmap ?
<doko> JaneW, mdz: java-roadmap is low priority, as descriobed, will work on an openoffice.org2 specific solution as it's done for eclipse
<JaneW> and LP spec https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/java-roadmap
<mdz> doko: regarding openoffice-gnome, is there work that can be done or no?
<mdz> if so, it's high priority, otherwise, must be deferred
<mdz> JaneW: that wiki page looks like the old JavaRoadmap spec from UDU
<JaneW> mdz: agreed...
<doko> mdz: the hinting can be done, will update next week. will talk to seb128 for the copy/paste integration, "my defaults" should not be done
<mdz> doko: is there a new JavaRoadmap spec?
* JaneW is wondering how it can be pending review....
<doko> mdz: update for "only OOo"?
<mdz> doko: hmm?
<mdz> doko,mvo: how are you planning to do ISDN testing here?  do we have ISDN service available?
<doko> mdz: do you mean https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NativeJavaGcjPackages ?
<mvo> mdz: I have various isdn hardware with me (and a modem)
<mdz> doko: I mean https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/java-roadmap
<mvo> we may only be able to test everything but the connecting :/
<mdz> doko: the summary mentions gcj
<doko> mdz: ISDN: it's just getting firmware loaded with udev, for breezy we did use hotplug
<mdz> doko: but the hyperlink goes nowhere, and there are some other components to it as well
<mdz> doko,vmo: re: ISDN, ok
<mdz> s/vmo/mvo/
<Kamion> Riddell: I've approved kubuntu-express now with the changes I mentioned. Note the status whiteboard though - I think it would help to design the UI in advance and have a usability person look it over.
<doko> mdz: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDownUnder/BOFs/JavaRoadmap
<mdz> doko: if that's the real java-roadmap spec, please update the URL in LP
<Riddell> Kamion: thanks, will do probably after a demo 
<doko> mdz: ok
<Kamion> Riddell: (not that my demo will bear much relation to the final UI as yet)
<mdz> ok, we're over time already
<mdz> dholbach?
<dholbach> this week (done): GNOME 2.13.90, random fixes
<dholbach> this week (todo): serious bug triage with seb256 (now that he's feeling better again), try to make evolution work with bogofilter
<dholbach> next week: visit London, bug triage, apt-get.org reviews
<JaneW> and there's no daniels or BenC...
<mdz> dholbach: enjoy the holiday next week
<mdz> thanks dholbach and doko
<dholbach> mdz: thanks a lot
<mdz> JaneW: please find out what happened to BenC
<JaneW> mdz: I will
<Riddell> mdz: mornfall is waiting on a reply to kubuntu-package-manager
<mdz> JaneW: daniels I don't expect will be attending these meetings going forward
<mdz> Riddell: it's a major piece of work and I've asked for input from mark on it
<Riddell> ok
<JaneW> nod, do we need any further updates in x? I know it's implemented, but does it need further tracking at all?
<mdz> JaneW: only the issues we discussed tuesday
<JaneW> we could shift x into someone else's section for that
<ogra> JaneW, it will have bugs that need to be fixed before release ...
<mdz> if there's anything else to discuss, let's do it in person
<mdz> thanks everyone, adjourned
<ajmitch> mdz: hm?
<fabbione> cuya
<JaneW> bye
<pitti> bye
<ajmitch> ah well
<JaneW> ajmitch: handg 10
<jsgotangco> heh
<JaneW> hang 10 even
<mdz> ajmitch: hmm?
<ajmitch> sorry, I'd written up an update for selinux
<Mithrandir> I think ajmitch wanted to throw in his update
<mdz> ajmitch: if you have dapper work in progress, please arrange with JaneW to get it tracked on the status spreadsheet
<JaneW> ajmitch: shoot
<ajmitch> no matter, I might not have time before feature freeze now
<ajmitch> selinux: spec not approved, some implementation details have changed since UBZ due to switch to modular reference policy. Probably not time for a bounty before feature freeze. - building targeted & strict policies off the reference policy project, currently monolithic but switching to modularised policy.
<ajmitch>  - some basic tools for managing selinux users & booleans are being done with the python bindings.
<ajmitch>  - going to try & coordinate policy packaging with debian, talked with the current policy maintainer at LCA & he's happy to let me maintain refpolicy in debian with his help.
<mdz> pitti: you're approver on that spec
<ajmitch> timing looks shaky now that I'm off to australia next week
<ajmitch> but I'll see what net access I have there
<JaneW> ajmitch: your call, want it track or not?
<mdz> ajmitch: we can certainly lay the groundwork in dapper, but I don't think it's something we'll want to switch on for this release due to our conservative strategy
<ajmitch> JaneW: might as well
<pitti> mdz: ok, I'll look at it
<ogra> if its not going to be implemented, can we switch off the "cant mount /selinux/" message ? 
<JaneW> ajmitch: ok will add it
<ajmitch> mdz: understood, I've discussed that briefly with pitti
<mdz> ajmitch: I'm interested in hearing about your progress though
<mdz> ok
<mdz> I need to make a phone call, anything else?
<ajmitch> ogra: can do, it's a simple modification to the sysvinit patch
<mdz> ajmitch: thanks for the update, we'll see what we can accomplish there
<ogra> that'd be nice ... even a >/dev/null would be enough 
<ajmitch> ok
<sivang> bah, status meeting it was ?
<Lathiat> indeed
<ajmitch> sivang: yep
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-02-08
<lukacu> meeting?
<hno73> Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeam/Meetings/Agenda
<lukacu> artnay?
<hno73> Trying again: Hi!
<hno73> The agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeam/Meetings/Agenda
<hno73> I got one positive comment to the wiki restructuring and zero negative on the list
<hno73> so I take that as 'ok, we don't mind' :)
<kafeine> i'm ok
<kafeine> :D
<hno73> Right, then we can move to point 2 :)
<lukacu> :)
<lukacu> great
<hno73> The todo list
<hno73> jsgotangco: hey!
<jsgotangco> hno73, hi!
<jsgotangco> umm is there a meeting?
<kafeine> yep
<hno73> art team meeting?
<jsgotangco> oh cool
* jsgotangco didn't know
<jsgotangco> but since i have admin to art.ubuntu.com might as well jump in :)
<lmanul> Hi all :)
* lmanul is Manu Cornet
<hno73> jsgotangco, lmanul: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeam/Meetings/Agenda
* jsgotangco is JeromeGotangco
<hno73> Hi lmanul :)
<kafeine> mm, hno73, can you point me to the ToDo since the link at the Agenda seems broken
<hno73> kafeine: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeam/TodoList
<hno73> sorry, that's my 'restructuring' :p
<jsgotangco> ouch that's a lot of TODO
<hno73> or, actually, lazy wiki markup
<hno73> jsgotangco: exactly. unmanageable
<hno73> more of a general braindump area really
<jsgotangco> can we make some realistic milestones per dapper dev release?
<kafeine> and distribute them?
<hno73> I think we should make a few simple recommendations for the distro team
<hno73> a recommended icon set, wallpaper etc.
<jsgotangco> well obviously we can't be able to do all of this with such short time and manpower
<jsgotangco> i'd like to have better AUC action too
<hno73> test them together, find out what is missing
<jsgotangco> but the approval process is so tedious
<jsgotangco> does AndyFitz stil do stuff for Ubuntu?l
<hno73> better AUC action meaning better tools or more admin work put in?
<hno73> I'm not sure
<jsgotangco> hno73, well approving and uploading submitted art is rather cumbersome for now, i've only did it like twice
<hno73> yeah. fixing it is non-trivial though. My recommendation would be a moin-based site
<hno73> It's slightly less elegant, but more flexible
<hno73> there are no admin bottlenecks
<hno73> anyone can upload content
<jsgotangco> and we're used to moin clean up
<hno73> right. and we seem to be converging on moin as a standard now
<hno73> http://www.ubuntu.com/ is moin
<jsgotangco> was it completely migrated?
<hno73> The main thing that would be missing would be voting and ranking of stuff
<hno73> it is now, yes
<hno73> if you didn't notice, it means it went fairly well :)
<jsgotangco> well i knew from the beginning we were moving to moin, i mean we've worked in orchard, i can see the similarities :)
* jsgotangco thinks the best way to jumpstart art team is to define goals and plan of action for dapper
<hno73> About the team itself. I guess volvoguy was leading it, but isn't well. Has someone else taken over for now or is it floating freely ATM?
<jsgotangco> no idea
* hno73 agrees with jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> the TODO we have on the wiki is a good start, but not a great staging area
<hno73> So, proposals for dapper goals?
<hno73> some items like the wallpaper and icons will be contracted out at least in part
<jsgotangco> most likely we'll not diverge much from GNOME HIG standards
<hno73> but there is example content and secondary themes
<jsgotangco> is art responsible for sample content?
<hno73> No, I am :)
* jsgotangco thought it was jdub's area
<hno73> but, it's an easy place to contribute
<jsgotangco> sample content - what does it consist? even media files?
<hno73> making some nice OOo documents should be a doable task
<jsgotangco> oh okay, so its an artwork task for dapper
<hno73> yes, but music and video is difficult to find in high quality + free license
<hno73> it can be, if we decide so
<jsgotangco> how about just doing some desktop action in istanbul?
<hno73> we can select 5-10 wallpapers for a start
<kafeine> istanbul is pretty buggy
<hno73> that sounds good, any experience with that
<hno73> mhz!
<jsgotangco> well i would think volvoguy's svg wallpapers are a good candidate
<mhz> hno73: yes, I just got back to the computer
<mhz> hno73: sorry
<jsgotangco> i can try the one in dapper, the one in breezy isn't so hot
<hno73> mhz: no worries, nice to see you :)
<mhz> thx
<hno73> I just got back from the distro-sprint of death https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2006-February/000066.html
<jsgotangco> oh the distro sprint of death is now the common tag for it
<hno73> jsgotangco: sounds cool. We should have a soundtrack over it
<hno73> yeah, I think so
<hno73> It might have been food poisoning. I seem to have escaped ok
<jsgotangco> thats too bad
<jsgotangco> me and sabdfl were talking about it yesterday (he was here)
<hno73> Ah right, how was your meeting?
<jsgotangco> pretty good he's upbeat
<jsgotangco> i got to meet malcolm and hande too
<jsgotangco> they're in tokyo now
<hno73> cool, hectic schedule
<hno73> So, I've been playing with icons today. Who has tried Yasis?
<hno73> what do you guys use?
* jsgotangco haven't
<jsgotangco> Yasis is an icon theme?
* mhz uses Tango and Gartoon
* jsgotangco has only used Tango
<hno73> yes http://art.gnome.org/themes/icon/1168
<Kyral> Tango++
<jsgotangco> but it doesn't fit our brown scheme
<Kyral> and ++Tango :D
<jsgotangco> (needs working)
<hno73> Tango is a bit too blue for Ubuntu atm though
<hno73> I like it otherwise
<Kyral> Good for Kubuntu?
<jsgotangco> its preety neat for KDE
<hno73> and Gartoon is of course 'owned' by ubuntu
<jsgotangco> but the greenish stuff makes it look a bit like SuSE
<hno73> KDE has a wider choice of suitable sets IMO
<hno73> because kubuntu use a standard colour scheme (blue)
<hno73> while ubuntu went revolutionary brown
<mhz> well, IIRC, Xubuntu default will be Tango
<jsgotangco> that would be nice
<jsgotangco> are we really getting a Xubuntu iso? sabdfl was pitching it already
<klepas> moin moin
<mhz> jsgotangco: "pitching it"
<mhz> ?
<mhz> klepas: moin
<jsgotangco> mhz, he added it on the list of other ubuntu-based distros in his presentations
<mhz> oh, cool
<hno73> So, IMO a task for the art team can be to test various icon themes and form an recomendation
<jsgotangco> well ive already tested tango...
<jsgotangco> it seems to be the future
<hno73> Yasis is the most suitable I've seen so far
<jsgotangco> are you thinking of adding another iconset to the distro?
<hno73> true, but we'd need to change quite a few of the blue icons
<mhz> any news from the "pros" hired by Canonical?
<hno73> jsgotangco: I'm thinking of recommending a new default for dapper
<jsgotangco> mhz, what they've done mostly are backgrounds
<jsgotangco> hmm
<mhz> jsgotangco: oh, will they do icons?
<hno73> mhz: there are people contracted to work on icons, but there isn't time to do a whole set
<mhz> jsgotangco: oh, have they choosen an icon set?
<hno73> so we have to build on an existing one
<hno73> Tango is a good option
<klepas> hey guys
<jsgotangco> i can look into it this weekend
<hno73> Yasis and nouveXT are others
<klepas> i've talked to Andy, Mark and Jeff about this artwork problem
<jsgotangco> and?
<hno73> klepas: recently?
<klepas> yes
<klepas> just last week
<klepas> and in person
<hno73> cool
<jsgotangco> LCA?
<klepas> yep
<jsgotangco> so you saw sabdfl's ravishing new haircut
<klepas> news might not be to welcome though
<hno73> klepas: go ahead
<klepas> Canonical has their own hired graphic artists
<jsgotangco> oh we're aware of that
<klepas> in fact they are most likely going to hire more, especially one to make an icon set
<klepas> we won't be able to say "here's our work" and it will be included
<hno73> right, but we can still make recomendations
<klepas> we can still get stuff into mainstream
<hno73> klepas: we never would though
<klepas> if it really good
<klepas> mostly in terms of splashes, GDMs and wallpapers
<hno73> there is always a process of evaluation and comments, etc
<klepas> that is true too
<klepas> this basically means we can probably forget trying to regulate all art in ubuntu
<klepas> at least for now
<hno73> That happens with the hired pros too, but often by phone or in person
<jsgotangco> hey we still have community
<hno73> so it's faster
<klepas> yep
<jsgotangco> we can put more resource to AUC
<klepas> but for example, our art could still easily get in
<hno73> I think we need to identify which areas we can and should focus on 
<klepas> even if it is not the default wallpaper for example
<klepas> it could still come in as one of the two or so others
<hno73> exactly
<klepas> hno73: wallpapers, splashes, GDMs and that's about it
<hno73> we are also adding 'Example Content'
<hno73> which can include wallpapers and other images
<klepas> that does not mean that we can't do other stuff too, like GTK and metacity stuff, but stuff like the above would have a higher chance
<jsgotangco> hno73, the example content, for example with OOo docs, we can use text from public domain
<hno73> it would be natural to take that fro the team
<klepas> so, basically as the art team we have a few things to do
<klepas> fix up wiki
<hno73> right, as a base, but we can then include artwork in the documents
<klepas> get AUC working
<klepas> and start doing some art :)
<hno73> get AUC working or replace AUC?
<klepas> i'll leave that up to your imagination
<klepas> :)
<mhz> and the very good thing about artwork from community is that we ALWAYS provide SVG and source files :D
<klepas> mhz: yep
<klepas> it would be interesting to see whether we could get the XCF or PSD file for the current breezy default wallpaper
<hno73> I'm keen to separate the concepts of generating new art and selecting art for inclusion
* mhz hopes the pros understand they should also provide sources as thye work on Ubuntu (I am who I am because ...)
<hno73> the second can come from the whole FOSS world
<mhz> also, Artwork team can help LoCo teams 
<mhz> they always need artwork
<jsgotangco> mhz, with little manpower at the moment?
<klepas> oh
<klepas> there was a sort of request though
<mhz> jsgotangco: hehehe, yes and no
<klepas> of the art team
<jsgotangco> we wouldnt want to spread ourselves thin :/
<hno73> If the art team has the view they we will create art which will eventually be included in the distro as a natural process, we will see a lot of frustration and disapointment
<mhz> yup
<klepas> to make and manage universe art packages
<klepas> Mark and Jeff really would love some themed art packages
<mhz> unless we state it every where: "don't think you do this and ..."
<klepas> like a modern theme or a continental theme
<hno73> fixing the accessible themes would be good too
<klepas> yea
<hno73> and it should be easy because those icons are very basic
<hno73> it currently breaks in stuff like OOo and firefox
<hno73> defaulting to normal icons
<klepas> have you guyes seen artnay ?
<hno73> accessibility will be installed in dapper by default, in various ways
<hno73> So it would be nice if the themes worked better
<mhz> hno73: that is great!
<hno73> mhz: yep, latest news from the distro sprint :)
<hno73> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2006-February/014969.html
<jsgotangco> the installer stuff news is great
<hno73> yep. Do we have anyone on the team who can do simple icons?
<jsgotangco> well not for this cycle
<klepas> hno73: what do you mean?
* jsgotangco used to be good with artowkr
<hno73> klepas: what do I mean by simple icons?
<hno73> like what is involved?
* hno73 has never made any icons :)
<jsgotangco> svg makes them easier though
<hno73> but it strikes be that the high viz ones are the easiest to do
<hno73> it might even just be a question of tweaking, duplicating and symlinking a bit
<klepas> what i meant are these icons for?
<hno73> the accessibility icons? Install the gnome high visibility theme to see them
<mhz> hno73: how many icons would you need?
<hno73> they are very simple, high contast icons
<klepas> ah, okay
<hno73> for people with poor vision
<mhz> hno73: rephrase.. icons to launch apps or icons per every button in each app?
<hno73> mhz: not, sure. 20-30 perhaps and then check lot's of links and refrences
<hno73> mhz: I think 90% of the launch icons are in place
<hno73> but only 10% of the icons in the OOo and FF toolbars
<hno73> but it might just be a question of copying and renaming
<hno73> Gedit has a complete set AFAIR
* mhz needs to check agenda.. he doesn't want to say "I own it" if later he can't
<jsgotangco> hmmm
* jsgotangco can only test for now and do AUC
<hno73> mhz: you know you want it :)
<mhz> hehehehe
<mhz> hno73: it's that in my ToDo list a Moin-a11y CSS had a priority 
<hno73> mhz: we were also talking about possibly moving AUC to moin
<mhz> and I guess I am already late for that :D
<mhz> hno73: that I read, but artnay has good points
<hno73> mhz: I've been working on that too. we need to share notes :)
<mhz> and I have not had the chance to show off some Moin "plugins" or "macros" for handling images
<mhz> artnay: ping?
<mhz> artnay_: ping
<mhz> ooofff, guys... family duties calling again!
<mhz> sorry I have to go
* mhz will read backlogs again!!
<hno73> OK, I think I should retire too
* mhz is tired of reading logs instead of participating
<hno73> Let's do another meeting again soon though
<hno73> perhaps with a few more team members :)
<jsgotangco> good idea
<jsgotangco> who will write a report?
<mhz> yup
<mhz> not lukacu :D
* jsgotangco work time already
<hno73> :D
<jsgotangco> we'll need fridge love so a report would be good
<jsgotangco> oh mhz left
<jsgotangco> hno73, a minute?
<hno73> jsgotangco: yep
<jsgotangco> orchard TODO and target dates?
<hno73> hm. You have a deadline soon right?
<hno73> btw, I just moved the site today: http://www.theopencd.org/
<hno73> finally, the wiki and website in one
<hno73> a real moin-based CD is looking unrealistic for the next release though
<jsgotangco> ive tried it doing it, its been trashing the cd hard
<hno73> how many new applications did you have in mind?
<jsgotangco> well i was thinking of doing a spinoff for mac
<hno73> trying to write stuff to the CD?
<hno73> oh, right
<jsgotangco> but are we still including livecd?
<hno73> no I plan to drop that now. 
<jsgotangco> ok i'll make up a list then
<hno73> people will distribute pure live CDs anyway
<hno73> and it makes derivatives difficult
<hno73> plus it sqeezes the space too much
<hno73> it was a good idea, but not that useful
<jsgotangco> ok so i'll just go wild on the orchard wiki?
<hno73> Ubuntu is much bigger than theopencd so it doesn't really need the marketing help :)
<hno73> jsgotangco: yes, please do
<jsgotangco> i'll consider pia's suggestions too
<hno73> the edu-cd?
<jsgotangco> well not a separate cd
<hno73> but more educational stuff
<jsgotangco> we have like 400MB+ now available :)
<hno73> there isn't really that much good stuff for win
<hno73> yep
<jsgotangco> how about open content
<hno73> yes, the open clip art lib should go in now
<hno73> as can wallpapers and stuff 
<hno73> Ubuntu art team wallpapers!
* hno73 hopes inkscape is stable enough on win32 to go in now
<hno73> it was pretty bad before
<hno73> we do need to be quite careful about quality
<hno73> ok, I should go now
<jsgotangco> ok good night
<hno73> jsgotangco: just ping me tomorrow or whenever
<jsgotangco> k
<hno73> good night all
<frans-th> hi all
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:robitaille] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 3 Feb 21:00 UTC:  Joint UDSF/Forums/DocTeam Meeting |  7 Feb 12:00 UTC: Community Council |  8 Feb 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 9 Feb 08:00 UTC:  Dapper Development Status | 14 Feb 20:00 UTC:  Technical Board | 15 Feb 20:00 UTC: MOTU
<MarioMeyer> ealden, pong
<jsgotangco> there's a meeting?
<MarioMeyer> nope.. :)
<MarioMeyer> he just pinged me
<bustacap> hello all..
<mruiz> hello
<Ampersand> hi
<jdong> hi
<Bonzodog> hi people
<lloyd> hi
<jdong> so like 5 more minutes
<bustacap> yeah, I might give it 3 ;)
<bustacap> Ok, let's start..
<Bonzodog> grant
<Bonzodog> you here?
<bustacap> Who is in attendance from the Ubuntu Forums admin team?
<jdong> I am
<Bonzodog> me and manicka
<Bonzodog> oh sorry
<bustacap> ok, excellent
<bustacap> Bonzodog, are you a UDSF admin?
<Bonzodog> yes, as is manicka
<bustacap> yeah..
* mhz_meeting is Mauricio Hernandez, from Chile LoCo Team
<bustacap> the first topic - howtos in the Wiki..
* mruiz is Miguel Ruiz, from Chile LoCo Team
<bustacap> I have proposed on the agenda page - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDSF/MeetingAgenda - to bypass creating howtos in the forums and create them straight into the Wiki..
<mhz_meeting> bustacap: yes, that's the idea.
<jdong> We understand that there are positives to doing so, but the forum team currently does not support doing so
<bustacap> Ubuntu Forums team: are there any proposed ideas to changing the way the howtos are currently setup?
<jdong> first off, unified logins and searches are a must
<jdong> they need to seamlessly bridge together
<bustacap> yes, that is a good idea..
<bustacap> I think there might be a big push to get everybody authenticating off the Launchpad system..
<mhz> currently, every person with LP account can login to wiki
<jdong> secondly, all howto's should be accepted; not rejected due to "debian unholiness"
<jdong> if we all LP, that'd be great
<jdong> but that's not the primary concern
<bustacap> what is  "debian unholiness"?
<jdong> not doing things the Debian way
<bustacap> sure..
<jdong> such as installing stuff by hand or from source bypassing dpkg
<mhz> jdong: the only issue I may see is that Forum users use nicks instead of NameLastname
<bustacap> that's a downside of continuing the howtos in the forums..
<bustacap> mhz, that's off topic..
<bustacap> the howtos need to be scrutinised by the forums team
<bustacap> sure there is a good qa side of that, however, the Wiki documents are scrutinised by the people that are using them..
<jdong> they are fairly scrutinized as far as not allowing anything that blatantly damages systems
<bustacap> KingBahamut gave me the impression that he tested most of the docs that he was assigned..
<Bonzodog> also the how-to's being on the forums allows for live feedback...the how-to's don't always work exactly the same on everyones system
<jdong> KB does indeed put a lot of effort into his project, and I'm not surprised if he personally tests everything
<jdong> Bonzodog: good point; a Wiki->Forum link like what the Fridge has would be awesome
<Bonzodog> we actually use the user feedback as a measure of how good a how-to is
<bustacap> Bonzodog, I have proposed to place a "Discuss this page on the Ubuntu Forums" link on major Wiki pages for starters
<manicka> no one is assigned docs as such, they are scrutinized by the whole community
<jdong> but bustacap, what is wrong with the doc team picking "good" howto's from our forums and putting them on the Wiki?
<Bonzodog> if it has little feedback, or a lot of criticism, we may hold it from the udsf
<mhz> bustacap: it is not 'offtopic' for wiki howtos because using a nick like 'ZeRo-Cow' would make wiki-linking a chaos (esp. when we talk about wiki admining) and also would make users have second thoughts on credibility
<bustacap> manicka, isn't there an admin process involved before howtos are posted to the forums..
<bustacap> jdong, that is "double handling"
<jdong> bustacap: a simple "is this a howto and not a question" check; that's all
<jdong> bustacap: you can't call it that when you are going to reject a lot of the HOWTO's as "unsafe"
<bustacap> the Wiki accepts all documents - good and bad - the public fixes them up
<jdong> the last issue then is syntax
<earobinson> hey
<bustacap> sure, I understand there is a need to reject HowTos..
<bustacap> syntax with the Wiki?
<earobinson> has the meeting started?
<jdong> yeah, the differing syntaxes
<jdong> i.e. users want to contribute but don't know the Wiki language
<Bonzodog> earobinson, yes
<bustacap> sure, there is a learning curve involved in the creation of Wikis
<bustacap> but it is rather small..
<jdong> correct, and that learning curve is an initial barrier in making HOWTO's
<bustacap> IMO
<mhz> jdong: we can easily use the "tips" at bottom of every editing page
<bustacap> jdong, to combat that, we need to make an even better Wiki syntax guide..
<mhz> jdong: or we can suggest users to visit wiki:SyntaxReference
* bustacap puts that on his list of things to bring up at the next docteam meeting..
<jdong> mhz, sure, but we've received complaints about the different syntax the last time we strongly encouraged Wiki howto's
<Bonzodog> bustacap: I have had problems today with moinmoin tags.....mediawiki at least recognises html
<bustacap> it is a matter of people getting comfortable with the syntax
<bustacap> most howtos are just bullet points and a few headings..
<mhz> jdong: oh, yes, so far there are many diff among wikis. However, Moin 1.5 incorporates a WYSIWYG editor so we can all contribute happily
<mhz> Bonzodog: yes, Moin only recognizes some html tags
<Bonzodog> mhz: there are somethings that moin does not do though
<Bonzodog> like I wanted strikeout today
<jdong> mhz: a WYSIWYG editor would be great
<bustacap> as long as the content gets posted on the Wiki, the creator just has to put in into CategoryCleanup and then the helpers come along to clean it up..
<mhz> yes, i know, and it doesn't do it because they released 1.5 which does it :D
<jdong> I just have issues with how the doc team might disregard some forum howto/tips as frivolous
<jdong> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=100167
<jdong> just an example
<bustacap> ok, looking..
<jdong> these kinds of mini-snippet posts really don't need their own wiki page
<jdong> more of an "oh cool, that's sweet" discussion than anything else
<mhz> Bonzodog: oh, my last comment was for you, sorry
<jdong> these seem better on the forum than on the Wiki
<bustacap> jdong, frivolous howtos exist all over the Wiki as well, it takes a good Wiki Team to go through and integrate other people's work into the larger Wiki's
<earobinson> but is there anything wrong if there is a wiki page?
<bustacap> we can fix those with redirects when they have been integrated with other pages..
<mhz> bustacap: yes, actually, today there are over 4500 pages in the wiki
<earobinson> just because we have extra content is not a bad thing, we just need to make sure the more important things are easy to find
<jdong> earobinson: no, but there is also nothing wrong with redundancy
<mhz> bustacap: and it is almost impossible to give pages lot of admin love
<bustacap> jdong, that howto was great!
<jdong> we have forums and mailing lists... that doesn't mean we have to get rid of one in favor for another
<bustacap> we need howtos like that..
<Bonzodog> I have a better idea if I may?
<jdong> I still think that the wiki and forums can coexist
<earobinson> jdong isent that the point, having them on both the wiki and forums would be  redundancy but there is nothing wrong with that
<bustacap> no, forums and mailing lists have different roles to perform..
<jdong> explain
<Bonzodog> can I have a moment to explain?
<mhz> shoot
<jdong> bustacap: the forums provide support, ubuntu-users provides support, #ubuntu provides support. Difference?
<bustacap> mailing lists are for more technically inclined people and are also used to announce changes and for team collaboration
<Bonzodog> right, we have to accept that the udsf is not going to go away
<bustacap> the forums are the best 1st level support mechanism
<Bonzodog> it will remain
<bustacap> point-and-click help in a web browser..
<jdong> bustacap: so you are saying that the forum is for dumber people??
<bustacap> jdong, no, I am saying it is the easiest method of getting help
<mdke> forums are easier to understand than mailing lists/irc
<mdke> that's what he means
<bustacap> not saying that technical subjects aren't discussed in the forums
<earobinson> its just gives more choice to the user
<jdong> well, in the same way posting a thread is the easiest way of letting someone know about something.
<jdong> that just gives more choice to the user, as well
<mdke> is this on the agenda?
* Bonzodog decides to post his point in a second....
<jdong> if the wiki folks want to make that a wiki page, cool -- go ahead. We'd gladly edit the original thread and link to the new wiki page
<bustacap> jdong, I know about the ease, what I am saying is, with a little more effort, we can keep the docs manageable..
<earobinson> jdong yes and no, because there are so many posts on the forums if I make a post on mounting a hd it quickly gets hidden in a wiki it will always stay ontop
<mdke> it's pretty clear that the forums are not good for howtos jdong. it would be really nice if the forum and wiki could work together and provide a nice combined resource, each doing what it does well
<mdke> ideally, it would work really well like that, IMO
<earobinson> mdke +1
<jdong> earobinson: there are 514 forum HOWTO's. How do you keep all of them on top?
<bustacap> creation of howtos directly into the Wiki would be the best solution..
<mhz> mdke: as usual +1
<earobinson> exactly in a forum you cant, but on a wiki you can have sections that keeps the info easy to browse
<jdong> creation onto the wiki with discussion threads in the forum is a good idea
<mdke> jdong, absolutely
<bustacap> jdong +1
<jdong> I agree with that
<Bonzodog> bustacap: as long as everytime one is created, there is a forum link already there
<mdke> jdong, what is the status with LP authentication for the forum?
<manicka> we already have a solution in place to better organise and archive forum data
<mhz> jdong: we could have a CategoryForumHowto
<jdong> mdke: ryan/ubuntugeek was on that; I don't know exactly
<earobinson> mdke what is LP?
<bustacap> jdong, if we can make some progress on this with the forum admins, we should keep in touch on this matter..
<mdke> earobinson, launchpad
<bustacap> LaunchPad
<earobinson> kk
<bustacap> ok, Restructing the Wiki
<Bonzodog> um...if I may
<jdong> our main concern is that howto's placed on the wiki would be removed if they don't meet a certain "quality level"
<bustacap> manicka, do you have any thoughts on restructing..
<Bonzodog> I have something I would like to add
<bustacap> jdong, things don't get removed..
<jdong> as long as you can assure us that censorship won't take place, we're pretty happy
<mdke> jdong, not removed
<jdong> ok, /me happy now :)
<bustacap> Bonzodog, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDSF/MeetingAgenda - add a agenda item
<mdke> what happens is people improve stuff if they think it's weak
<manicka> restructuring what,, the wiki or the forum
<bustacap> the Ubuntu Wiki
<bustacap> do you have any thoughts on it..
<jdong> mdke: ok, good. Building on old work is great, I love it.
<mdke> jdong, there will need to be quality control, but not by removing stuff, probably by categorising it
<bustacap> classification and indexing..
<Bonzodog> this concerns all of this
<mdke> jdong, that's not well evolved at the moment
<jdong> let's let bonzodog speak
<mdke> sure, go Bonzodog 
<manicka> I have lots of ideas, I've discussed a few on the doc-team mailing list, but they were dismissed
<mdke> manicka, eh? which ideas were dismissed?
<bustacap> well manicka bring it up here..
<Bonzodog> right - we have to accept that the udsf will not go away right?
<manicka> it was some time ago
<bustacap> Bonzodog, can we put that on the end of the meeting agenda..
<mdke> Bonzodog, no, that depends on your point of view.
<Bonzodog> we will contiinue to archive how-to's from thwe forums
<Bonzodog> however I have an idea
<bustacap> manicka, if you can recall what was rejected, please re-raise your ideas..
<bustacap> Bonzodog, a little later in the meeting please..
<mdke> manicka, absolutely. If things were rejected for no good reason, tell me
<mdke> we want ideas to improve the wiki
<bustacap> I am after some input from the UDSF guys at the moment, and the Ubuntu Forums, for any ideas on how to improve the Wiki
* mdke nods at bustacap 
<jdong> hmm, one last thing, if a forum user really doesn't want to learn moinmoin, what should we do then? Post unformatted text and have others come along and fix it up?
<Bonzodog> bustacap: the front end and editing of moinmoin was enough to put me off
<Bonzodog> I really don't like moinmoin
<bustacap> jdong, absolutely..
<jdong> for you and I, it may be easy enough to learn it, but there are some users that really don't like learning new stuff
<Bonzodog> and I have tried
<Bonzodog> omg I have tried to use it
<mhz> bustacap: wiki needs love, lots of it, indeed, but it is kind of difficult to provide the "best" structure mainly due to its own nature
<bustacap> jdong, that is quite alright for users to post unformatted and place it into CategoryCleanup
<Bonzodog> but it's unusable
<mdke> jdong, yes. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/forum
<mhz> Bonzodog: but have you tried Moin 1.5?
<mhz> (WYIWYG editor)
<jdong> bustacap: but then the whole organization just goes downhill if everything goes into the cleanup category, right?
<bustacap> Bonzodog, adding an agenda item should be just a copy and paste from the other items..
<mdke> mhz, it doesn't matter if he has, we don't use it
<bustacap> Bonzodog, I will just put your agenda item at the end, I will bring it up then..
<mdke> jdong, yep, that's why the category system needs some rework
<mhz> mdke: sure, but MAYBE, he can use desktopedition and copy paste
<manicka> bustacap, we need to move away from this idea that the forums and udsf are separate entities
<mhz> :D
<bustacap> jdong, yes, we are looking at reworking the categories.. but it is still usable now..
<Bonzodog> can it please be accepted that I am an admin of the udsf?
<jdong> just a heads-up, one of the other admins is not happy about the current decision
<earobinson> manicka, they are separate entities, they work well as a team but at the end of the day they are 2 diffent projects
<mdke> jdong, which decision?
<bustacap> manicka, is this to do with the restructuring of the Wiki?
<jdong> I am working to understand exactly what the disagreement is
<jdong> mdke: all howtos are done on the wiki
<mdke> jdong, oh, i think we're a long way from that decision
<jdong> mdke:  alright
<jdong> so let's make clear the roadmap as far as howto's on the forums are concerned
<bustacap> jdong, but as long as we can work towards greater creation of howtos in the Wiki, it's a step forward IMO
<bustacap> sure jdong, shoot..
<mdke> jdong, even if everyone here is agreed, some social barriers need to be broken down before howtos are wiki-only
<jdong> I support greater efforts to migrate current forum HOWTOS onto the wiki
<mdke> plus, some wiki-forum technology will be required, I think
<jdong> that makes all sense
<jdong> but I don't want to deny users from posting howto's on the forum
<manicka> agreed jdong
<Bonzodog> users will always post on the forums
<earobinson> jdong, +1
<jdong> we will do all that's possible to urge users to make new documents on the Wiki, but if a user so chooses, he still can put HOWTO's on the forum
<bustacap> jdong, the interest isn't really in the existing - it is in the new HowTos..
<Bonzodog> even if we ask them not to
<mdke> jdong, that's a shame, because it really isn't the best medium. and if the two resources were integrated properly, there should be no problem
<mhz> jdong: are forums howtos html? If so, we can use Html2Moin.py
<jdong> mhz: after rendered, they are html; internally they're vbulletin markup
<bustacap> jdong, making the HowTo section read-only with a Quick Start guide on how to create a very basic page in the wiki is a possible solution..
<jdong> bustacap: then users will just start making howto articles in other parts of the forum
<jdong> that's inevitable
<Bonzodog> mhz: is the wiki set for u[pgrade in the near future?
<bustacap> jdong, I know that you can't make users do anything..
<Bonzodog> to 1.5
<mhz> Bonzodog: dont know yet. 
<Bonzodog> ?
<mdke> jdong, that depends on the level of integration
<mdke> if there is a howto section, which is the wiki, that won't happen
<jdong> bustacap: currently, isolating howto's to the HOWTO area is as good as we can do as forum staff, IMO
<bustacap> but if there is a statement and a firm guide to tell people to create in the wiki, that is the best that can be done..
<mhz> Bonzodog: but I can happily help you use MoinDesktop edition 1.5 and show you copy/paste into current wiki 
<jdong> bustacap: users will start replying to questions with mini HOWTO's, and then you'll just get repetitive clutter
<jdong> that's why the HOWTO area started in the first place
<bustacap> jdong, I just wish people could make more of an effort to create good doco..
<mhz> Bonzodog: desktop edition takes 1 minute to work in your /home
<jdong> bustacap: agreed; but we can't force people to comply with our wishes ;)
<bustacap> well perhaps a limit on the size of the HowTos in the howto section..
<Bonzodog> mhz: I will look, but I also deal with mediawiki
<Bonzodog> and I am a mediawiki fanboy
<mhz> Bonzodog: I used to be a mediawiki fan too
<bustacap> any over 4 lines will need to be created in the Wiki (something like that - needs more thought)
<jdong> a size limit will just force people to cram more information vaguely
<mdke> jdong, I'll say it again: that depends on the level of integration
<earobinson> also the forums let people talk about the how to the wiki will not allow that
<jdong> mdke: how far are we planning ahead here?
<mdke> earobinson, we can use the forums to discuss wiki howtos
<mdke> jdong, it would take some planning yeah
<bustacap> jdong, we could have more meetings ;)
<jdong> as far as soon after this meeting, I can peacefully instate what I've agreed to now :)
<earobinson> maybe we could convert the how to section on the forums to be, a link to you wiki how to section
<earobinson> mdke, I was getting at that
<bustacap> sounds great jdong..
<jdong> but as far as big moves, such as no HOWTO's on forums, that's not something we can do suddenly
<mdke> of course not
<bustacap> no, that's right jdong..
<jdong> there needs to be a smooth transition and evaluation/meetings along the way
<mdke> it will take lots of planning, and talking
<bustacap> it's shift in the "culture" as well..
<bustacap> a shift in habit
<bustacap> that takes time..
<earobinson> I think linking is the best of both worlds
<Bonzodog> I have a much better solution
<Bonzodog> use interwiki
<mdke> Bonzodog, interwiki between a wiki and a forum?
<earobinson> interwiki?
<Bonzodog> to link from the main wiki to the udsf
<bustacap> jdong, moving back to suggestions for the Wiki - I think the wiki.ubuntu.com/Forums solution isn't working and needs to rethought
<mdke> we're not talking about the udsf Bonzodog 
<Bonzodog> that way we can carry on archiving howto's
<Bonzodog> from the forums
<bustacap> howtos are archived by being created in the Wiki
<Bonzodog> and the wiki then provides all the vaild links
<mdke> Bonzodog, if you do that, the howto has to be written once, and ported once, rather than just written once. You see the difference?
<bustacap> double handling..
<jdong> bustacap, along the lines of that, we can say that the Forum-Wiki delta is an effort to put the forum HOWTO's into the Wiki, correct?
<mdke> yep
<mdke> ideas for improving that are welcome
<jdong> I think we can safely say that having an intermediate wiki in a different format is truly double-handling, right?
<bustacap> yes it is, I would propose the scrapping of the current system in favour of better help guides for Forum users in the howto section
<mhz> mdke: and you think interwiki feature may work sanely ?
<manicka> by the delta, you mean the pastebin that was set up
<mdke> jdong, you may think that, but that is what the UDSF is, and it is pretty fiercely defended by the people involved
<bustacap> jdong, instead of users posting under the forums section, they should just create their own pages in the main - I don't think we need to "sandbox" forum users' pages..
<bustacap> manicka, I think the "pastebin" solution isn't viable..
<mdke> bustacap, the idea is to have an area where markup is not a problem, and people who want to clean things up can find it easily
<manicka> no, I agree
<bustacap> users can just create their docs inthe main - and place the doc into CategoryCleanup
<jdong> bustacap: there's just simply a culture/awareness gap here; not all of us are educated in how the doc team organizes the wiki. that's why we've been trying to just migrate articles to the wiki and have you guys organize them
<manicka> at least not the version that is currently on the wiki
<bustacap> jdong, there isn't much organisation at the moment..
<bustacap> just a main index
<bustacap> I am working on changing that in a big way
<earobinson> jdong we could sticky a link to a wiki how to on making wikis
<bustacap> the WikiTeam needs a Cleanup subteam along with Wiki Love Days
<mhz> .oO(we can also include a little trick so users see this box: "Create a page here _________"
<jdong> Some sort of documentation of how to work on the Ubuntu wiki would be great
<mdke> earobinson, there is one already
<earobinson> my bad
<jdong> and I don't mean just syntax; organization, layout, and everything
<bustacap> hehe @ mhz, that is sneaky and underhand, it's good..
<mdke> jdong, there is a sticky on the howto section. That references the relevant documentation
<bustacap> I think mhz does have a really good suggestion..
<jdong> mdke: that actually illustrates the wiki barrier pretty well: There's 10+ pages of reading material for contributing content to the wikis!
<mhz> bustacap: i'll provide a url for you to see
<bustacap> In the howto section, you can have a very simple form that asks for the title of the HowTo, the user places the name in there, it then redirects the user to edit mode of their title - eg. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewHowToTitle?action=edit :)
<mdke> jdong, erm, one post on the forum, and one page on the wiki should do it 
<mdke> jdong, but yeah, we can always work on breaking down the barrier
<jdong> mdke: right, but the 10 pages of reading you say was "VITAL" to do?
<jdong> that's a part of the barrier
<mdke> jdong, perhaps I should revisit my howto
<mdke> s/howto/post
<mdke> the WikiGuide page is comprehensive enough now
<mhz> bustacap: http://www.druidwiki.org/ See at the bottom of the page
<bustacap> jdong, there is a bit of a "you must do it this way" feel about the wiki help docs which I will work on removing
<mdke> it wasn't at the time
<jdong> bustacap: +1
<bustacap> jdong, that is part of making the Wiki more friendly
<mhz> bustacap: that page uses lots of moin nice tricks
<mdke> you can't remove all of that I'm afraid
<mdke> because it's like saying "don't worry about making good documentation"
<earobinson> but there is a huge advantage to haveing all the wikis in the same style bustacap 
<bustacap> mdke, sure, but we can encourage good documentation..
<bustacap> not enforce it as a hard and fast rule
<jdong> mdke: that's one of the attitudes of the forum howto section. It's very loose and relaxed
<bustacap> perhaps just "softer" language in the instructions..
<mdke> jdong, "don't worry about making good documentation"???
<mdke> surely not
<jdong> mdke: in a way, yes
<mdke> hmm
<jdong> we don't have a 10 page guide on writing a 5 line howto
<mdke> are there rubbish howtos there?
<bustacap> mdke, it's not a case of - "stuff it - let somebody else fix it up" - it's more that if you want to create good doco, here's how..
<earobinson> bustacap, but even then when a user makes a how to and links it on the forums and it gets edited that could cause problems no?
<jdong> mdke: at times, yes
<mdke> jdong, ah. That wastes the user's time
<jdong> mdke: there are howto's on all levels of complexity and quality
<mdke> he then has to look for another one
<bustacap> earobinson, heaven forbid a Wiki getting edited by others.. :)
<jdong> mdke: no it doesn't.
<mdke> i think so
<earobinson> im saying it can be a good thing, but if a user makes one and then the style gets changed thats where problems could start bustacap 
<bustacap> ok, jdong & mdke hear me on this..
<bustacap> mdke, we can agree that there is a need for good doco
<jdong> All I can say is that we've not once got a rant about users not being able to find howto's, but several users who have tried to create docs on the wiki come back confused
<bustacap> jdong, we can agree that shouldn't be the barrage of restrictions and rules for users..
<jdong> correct
<bustacap> we need to simplify the "guidelines" for creating new Wiki docs..
<mdke> jdong, finding and creating are two different problems. I won't tell you that the wiki is easy to create documentation on. Although it's not as hard as people think, and we can work on it
<bustacap> sort of like how Malone is a simplified Bugzilla..
<jdong> mdke: correct, but how would you like forum users to act diferently than now; that's currently my #1 concern as representative of the forums
<manicka> mdke, for ordinary users, the wiki is overwhelming
<bustacap> basically, search for an existing topic, if it doesn't exist - create a new one and follow some simple formatting guidelines..
<jdong> currently, I see more of a doc team side effort than a forums issue
<bustacap> manicka, I would agree with that for some ordinary users, we need to simplify the Wiki help & guidelines..
<jdong> we'd be glad to lend a hand, but more important I'd first like to know for the average forum user making a HOWTO thread, how this is going to change after this meeting
<bustacap> I will be scouring the logs for this meeting and bringing up a lot of these subjects at the next meeting - this has been very productive so far..
<bustacap> doc team meeting that is..
<bustacap> jdong, we need to make the Wiki help simpler and friendlier..
<jdong> yeah, we all need to stay in close contact and understand each other better
<bustacap> more meetings like this ;)
<jdong> ugh, pretty much :)
<earobinson> :)
<bustacap> so manicka, Bonzodog, jdong - any thoughts on any structuring within the Wiki
<Bonzodog> yeah...simplification is needed BADLY
<Bonzodog> also, my login to the wiki keeps on going awry
<mdke> Bonzodog, what sort of simplification?
<bustacap> I am of the opinion that the UserDocumentation page needs further indexing at levels below it..
<manicka> well, the obvious one is the layout of the userdocs page
<mdke> Bonzodog, login is cookie based. if you delete your cookies, it goes away
<Bonzodog> no, I have an 'invalid password'
<manicka> you need some subsections created with how-tos linked together, like the recent wifi page
<Bonzodog> as i am using my LP login
<mdke> bustacap, that will happen when the wiki is moved, and searching works properly
<mdke> manicka, ^^
<bustacap> sure, I am working on the UserDocumentation  page manicka - I will make the changes publicly known once I have a solid plan..
<Bonzodog> so I cannot change skin
<bustacap> mdke, I thought the searching works pretty good at the moment..
<mdke> bustacap, search for "bluetooth"
<mdke> you'll get like 4 pages which aren't documentation
<bustacap> mdke, you'll get worse results on Google :D
<bustacap> searching is searching..
<manicka> and some way of establishing if a howto is for a specific version of ubuntu or a generic howto
<mdke> manicka, yes that is true. There's a thread on the ML right now about that
<manicka> the last time I looked there were some redundent pages there
<jdong> ok, http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=100, on that page, we have a read-before-you-post message encouraging users to go on the Wiki
<bustacap> manicka, could I invite you along to the next docteam meeting with your thoughts on the wiki, because these are the exact topics that I am bringing up at the moment..
<jdong> is there anything you guys would like to see changed about that?
<bobblehead> bobble..
<mdke> nope, I am happy with it
<bustacap> jdong, I think I will talk about a restructuring of the whole Forums->Wiki issue with mdke and we'll get back to you..
<bustacap> the page is good though..
<manicka> bustacap, I'm usually there anyway
<jdong> bustacap: then we'll follow-up through e-mail?
<bustacap> sure on the Forums->Wiki issue, yeah
<mdke> jdong, have you got a minute for a couple of things
<mdke> not related
<bustacap> jdong, and maybe another meeting as well..
<jdong> mdke: yeah, like 15 minutes or so, shoot :)
<bustacap> ok, onto UDSF related topics..
<dsas> would it be a good idea for the udsf guys subscribed to the doc ml if they wished? fresh input and their experiences would be helpful on things
<earobinson> why not also post it to the forums let the users know whats going on
<jdong> bustacap: alright
<jdong> this has been a good discussion so far, thanks everyone :)
<mdke> jdong, one is enough :) http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=91 if I add a post about the wiki documentation and official help docs, will you sticky it there?
<mdke> dsas, yes, very good
<bustacap> yes thanks for your attendance jdong..
<manicka> dsas, I've been on the doc ml for some time
<earobinson> because that way as things do change they will know why and have a chance to come to a meeting and make there voice heard
<jdong> mdke: sure; I will
<jdong> bustacap: no problem; glad I could be of assistance
<mdke> jdong, ok I'll PM you or something, if that's ok
<manicka> as is kb and others
<jdong> mdke: pm, e-mail, all fine
<mdke> thanks all
<bustacap> Bonzodog, you wanted raise the topic of the UDSF
<ubuntugeek> good meeting.. thanks jdong..
<Bonzodog> I wanted to propose the idea of creating a link between the udsf and the wiki
<bustacap> hello ubuntugeek
<ubuntugeek> hello
<Bonzodog> along the lines of using the interwiki
<earobinson> lol ubuntugeek lurking in the shadows eh
<jdong> lol, I was just commenting on that, earobinson  ;)
<bustacap> Bonzodog, one exists - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDSF
<Bonzodog> yeah, I created that
<ubuntugeek> had a second to drop in.. but jdong is doing a fine job and i'll just watch..
<bustacap> well, if nobody has anything extra to add..
<Bonzodog> what i was saying is that how-to's could remain on the udsf
<Bonzodog> archived by us
<bustacap> they can Bonzodog..
<dsas> manicka, ok, I wasn't aware of that. 
<Bonzodog> there could be hard lionks put into the main wiki
<Bonzodog> *links
<bustacap> we have no input into what gets copied and pasted around the Internet..
<bustacap> Bonzodog, that is defeating the purpose of the wiki
<bustacap> a wiki that links to another wiki??
<Bonzodog> so we become the how-to section of the wiki effectively
<bustacap> the wiki is the how-to section..
<Bonzodog> thats what interwiki is all about#
<Bonzodog> the wiki contains alot more than howtos's
<bustacap> I don't think this is the intention of the UDSF team? to link off the Ubuntu Wiki?
<Bonzodog> we are the forum howto's archive
<Bonzodog> nothing more
<Bonzodog> we actually have linked across to the wiki
<Bonzodog> on occasion
<bustacap> ok..
<Bonzodog> so we archive the forums how-to's
* mhz has to leave
<Bonzodog> then we place a link using interwiki in the main wiki
<mhz> bye guys and thx for such interesting discussions
<bustacap> thanks mhz 
<Bonzodog> that way users can still create their how-to's in the forums
<Bonzodog> we take charge of archiving forum related info
<bustacap> Bonzodog, a solution for the how-tos have been discussed using the official resources of the Ubuntu community
<bustacap> official Ubuntu Forums -> official Ubuntu Wiki
<manicka> that's a very long term project bustacap
<KingBahamut> I aggree manicka
<bustacap> yes it is..
<Bonzodog> my solution works
<Bonzodog> I've seen it
<Bonzodog> i've tried it :)
<KingBahamut> sorry for my lateness ladies and gents
<bustacap> sorry KingBahamut, the meeting is coming to a close..
<Bonzodog> manicka: we need to bring KB upto date
<KingBahamut> figures my dumb luck would elude 
<KingBahamut> ce la vie
<mdke> there is a log, no problem
<bustacap> yeah, catch the discussion in the log..
<Bonzodog> but that is my idea
<earobinson> + follow up emails and meetings
<bustacap> I think I will close off the meeting here..
<earobinson> and I assume any info will be posted on the forums
<bustacap> yeah + earobinson 
<bustacap> sure there is a post - http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=686596
<Bonzodog> bbustacap: I thought the udsf was to be a major part of this?
<Bonzodog> I would hope that we could work together
<bustacap> Bonzodog, the main topic on the agenda was the duplication of the howtos on the UDSF
<Bonzodog> and is that not what i have been trying to discuss
<bustacap> and a proposal on a joint effort to identify and correct the duplication within the two Wikis..
<Bonzodog> a solution
<bustacap> do you see there being a duplication problem between the two wikis?
<Bonzodog> yes
<Bonzodog> but we are already ahead on that
<earobinson> why is it a problem Bonzodog?
<Bonzodog> so why don't you let us continue what we are doing
<Bonzodog> and we will then create interwiki links to the main wiki
<bustacap> well I will raise the issue at the next docteam meeting on proposing to identifing duplicates..
<Bonzodog> that ways the forums stuff remains as is
<bustacap> sure, you guys just archive.. I am not trying to stop the activities of the UDSF Bonzodog..
<bustacap> I am after a better documentation solution, that's my angle..
<Bonzodog> isn't it better though to continue with the how-to's going to the udsf from the forums?
<Bonzodog> thus we stop duplication onto the main wiki
<mdke> night all, gtg
<earobinson> I still dont understand what is so bad wit a bit of duplication
<jdong> alright, yeah, I've gotta be heading off too...
<jdong> I think the rest of the discussion for now will be non-forum related
<earobinson> later jdong mdke
<Bonzodog> i say let the users continue posting how-to's to the forums, we will transfer them to the udsf, then create a hardlinked page in the main wiki to the udsf
<bustacap> Bonzodog, this is causing some many extra unnecessary steps.. - this has been discussed above..
<Bonzodog> it will basically echo the index setup of the udsf
<earobinson> bustacap, +1
<bustacap> bustacap, +1 as well
<earobinson> 1 step that makes the info available to all 3 is better than 3 steps
<Bonzodog> but you are proposing cutting the supply route by not letting users post how-to's on the forums?
<Bonzodog> thus we suddenly have no info to archive
<bustacap> I have to get going now.. Thanks for everybody turning up and having a great discussion - progress has been made - keep in touch..
<earobinson> not stop it just make it more easy to post in other locations and then link from the forums
<KingBahamut> Bonzo, that just means our doc writers go outside the forums 
<KingBahamut> and it becomes a non issue
<earobinson> exactly
<earobinson> meeting over???
<dsas> i'd say so, it seems most everyone has gone.
<dsas> just waiting for the irc logs to refresh so I can catch up :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-02-10
* CyberSDF_afw is away: Occup
* CyberSDF is away: Occup
* CyberSDF is back (gone 00:00:08)
<Ubuntuser_Ba> Seveas, ping
<Seveas> Ubuntuser, pong
<Ubuntuser> Hi.. pvt!
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-02-11
* ulinskie is away: kain po muna
* ulinskie is away: up up and away...
<Ju> Hi all !
<raphink> siretart: ping
<raphink> siretart: you there?
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-02-12
<sorush20> please put firefox 1.5 in the repositories  please
<Seveas> sorush20, it is. for dapper
<sorush20> Seveas: If I change the repositories to dapper now I'm sure things will messup since I made the sources.lits from source-o-matic.. 
<sorush20> dapper is going to be release in two months right? 
<Seveas> 3
<sorush20> Seveas: oh okay.. 
<Seveas> 2.5 actually, april 20
<sorush20> are you guys rushing to get things working ? 
<Riddell> sorush20: -> #ubuntu
<mruiz> 
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:robitaille] : 7 Feb 12:00 UTC: Community Council |  8 Feb 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 9 Feb 08:00 UTC:  Dapper Development Status | 14 Feb 20:00 UTC:  Technical Board | 15 Feb 20:00 UTC: MOTU | 16 Feb 20:00 UTC: Kubuntu
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:robitaille] :  Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 7 Feb 12:00 UTC: Community Council |  8 Feb 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 9 Feb 08:00 UTC:  Dapper Development Status | 14 Feb 20:00 UTC:  Technical Board | 15 Feb 20:00 UTC: MOTU | 16 Feb 20:00 UTC: Kubuntu
* Kinnison figures he may as well be early :-)
<Seveas> T minus 16 minutes
<sivang> CC meeting soon?
<Seveas> Anyone awake yet?
<Seveas> sivang, yup
<Kamion> yes
<Kamion> FSVO awake
<Seveas> FSVO?
* Kinnison is here too
<Seveas> for some value of?
* Kinnison wonders if his rara girls are here yet
<Kinnison> hmm, not yet
* ogra raras for Kinnison 
<Kinnison> ogra: coo ta
* ogra digs up his pompoms and looks for the miniskirt ...
<Kamion> Seveas: http://www.google.com/search?q=FSVO
* Seveas is SO glad ogra does not have a webcam...
<ogra> lol
<ogra> Seveas, yes, you can be i guess
<sivang> why , he would make a great rara girl :)
<jsgotangco> atie, hi
<atie> hello, everyone
<atie> highvoltage, Jerome
<jsgotangco> still early :)
<atie> jsgotangco, how was the meeting in Seoul?
<jsgotangco> atie, i didnt go to seoul
<atie> jsgotangco, sorry to hear that.
<jsgotangco> hopefully sabdfl comes online
<atie> jsgotangco, I'm here for membership could you be a my fanclub? ^^
<jsgotangco> oh you've done lots already
<jsgotangco> you've worked with cjk
<Seveas> we need more people on CJK
<atie> Seveas, thanks.
<jsgotangco> yes
<jsgotangco> like ming said before, theres huge interest but needs more love
<atie> I am bit relaxed, you guys knew your first time at meeting. 
<Seveas> there's no need to be nervous, we're not the spanish inquisition :)
<jsgotangco> yeah
<Gloubiboulga> hey Tonio_ 
<Tonio_> hi all, hi Gloubiboulga 
<Seveas> I hope enough CC members will be around, it's 6am for mako and sabdfl is on tour...
<jsgotangco> yeah but if sabdfl is still in seoul itws only 9pm there
<Seveas> but he probably won't have time :)
<jsgotangco> oh well at least we had lunch together when he was here
<Kamion> meh, er, may have been a dropped ball here
<OgMaciel> morning all
<jsgotangco> hallo hallo
<Kamion> the last mail I have indicates that Mark wanted to do this CC meeting at 2200 UTC yesterday
<OgMaciel> jsgotangco, =)
<Kamion> but we obviously never actually set that officially - and I was sick yesterday anyway
<Kamion> sabdfl is mid-flight at the moment
<jsgotangco> ahh
<OgMaciel> not much going on today as per the agenda, huh?
<jsgotangco> too bad
<Kamion> I'll SMS mako on the off-chance
<raphink> hi there
<jsgotangco> we have a light agenda anyways
<mhz> hi all
<OgMaciel> mhz, hey
<mhz> hi OgMaciel 
* OgMaciel is about to leave for work...  7:03am here
<jsgotangco> ohh
<Kamion> SMSed mako and elmo, can't do much more unless/until both of them arrive unfortunately
<jsgotangco> yeah
<Kamion> if they don't appear, we'll try to organise something to get through some member candidates
<mhz> jsgotangco: is it me or time for meetings was going to rotate
<jsgotangco> mhz, docteam? it should rotate
<jsgotangco> CC rotates too
<Seveas> mhz, it is rotating for CC
<Kamion> last meeting certainly wasn't 1200
<mhz> oh, I missed lastone
<OgMaciel> Seveas, sup bud? ;)
* mhz salps himself then
<mhz> ;)
<jsgotangco> yeah 1200 is strange for CC
<jsgotangco> its usually later
<Seveas> it's the first one at 12:00 afaik
<mhz> 12 UTC is 09:00 in chile
<mhz> i like 12 utc :D
<jsgotangco> too early for most
<Kamion> mako suggested the 1200 time, we figured if he didn't mind it was OK by the rest of us
<jsgotangco> ok
<jsgotangco> 1 more
<highvoltage> hi atie 
<Seveas> 2 down, 1 to go :)
<Seveas> welcome elmo
<mhz> hehehe
<Kamion> elmo: I'm not entirely convinced mako's going to show up
<jsgotangco> i think its only 6am on this side
<jsgotangco> or earlier
<Kamion> elmo: the e-mail thread we had actually scheduled this meeting for 2200 last night
<elmo> Kamion: woops
<Kamion> but I was out of it then and wouldn't have noticed even if I had remembered
<elmo> have we phoned him yet and/or tried mark?
<Kamion> I've SMSed mako; mark's in-flight
<Kamion> (the latter's why we rescheduled)
<Kamion> I'll try phoning
<Kamion> voicemail
<Seveas> which TZ is boston in?
<Kamion> -5
<Seveas> so 7am
<atie> yes 7am there
<mhz> .oO(oh, european seem to wake up earlier?)
<jsgotangco> of course
<Kamion> so, who is here out of the new member candidates?
<atie> me
<Kinnison> me
<dous> me too
<Gloubiboulga> me
<Kamion> Patrick Davies?
<Riddell> jpatrick is (he's gone for 10 mins though)
<jsgotangco> Kinnison, you? =)
<Kinnison> jsgotangco: Pardon?
<Seveas> Gloubiboulga, -> Gauvain?
* Kinnison needs to write his blurb
<Gloubiboulga> Seveas, yes
<jsgotangco> ok
<Keybuk> Kinnison: you're not paying attention, AND NOW YOU GO HUNGRY!
<raphink> :)
<Kinnison> Keybuk: sorry, was busy with launchpad, blame kamion
<Kamion> ok, I guess we can at least go through people and then collect acks from mako/sabdfl later on
<Seveas> sounds like a plan
<Kamion> APPROVALS AT THIS MEETING DO NOT CONSTITUTE ACTUAL APPROVAL FOR UBUNTUMEMBERS
<Kamion> thank you :)
<jsgotangco> cool
<raphink> oh!
<Kamion> (since people have got confused in the past)
<raphink> Kamion: how come?
<Kamion> raphink: inquorate
<Seveas> BUT ARE A GOOD INDICATION THAT YOU WILL BE ACCEPTED
<Seveas> OR NOT
<jsgotangco> but 2 votes are shoo-in?
<raphink> I CAN'T HEAR PLEASE SPEAK LOUDER
<Kamion> jsgotangco: 3 required
<raphink> ok
<jsgotangco> right
<Seveas> ok, let's start calling names
* Seveas -eq Dennis Kaarsemaker
* raphink is Raphal Pinson
* Gloubiboulga is Gauvain Pocentek
<raphink> hi Seveas btw, nice to see you around :)
* ogra is OliverGrawert (here to cheer up for Kinnison today :) )
* hunger is Tobias Hunger.
* mhz is MauricioHernandez Z.
* Riddell Jonathan Riddell
* jsgotangco is Jerome Gotangco
* Tonio_ is Anthony Mercatante
* dous is Aldous Penaranda
* Kinnison is Daniel Silverstone
* sivang is Sivan Greenberg (cheering up Kinnison  as well )
* irvin is Irvin Piraman
<Seveas> veryy well, a bit quiet today but that shouldn't hurt
<jsgotangco> CC lite :)
<sivang> quite ? :)
<Kamion> I'll assume jpatrick isn't back yet and go straight to dous
<Seveas> given that jpatrick is away, dous: you're up. Please give us your 3-liner
<mhz> jsgotangco: LOL
<dous> I'm a 21 year-old system administrator from the Philippines. I've been using GNU/Linux since around 2002 and tried several distributions before settling on Debian and Ubuntu last year. I first tried Ubuntu during the Warty release.
<dous> It was only last year that I learned about #ubuntu-ph and started to help out with doing some translation work and advocacy/support. Before that, I was already interested in doing packaging/maintenance for Java packages in Debian.
<dous> My current work and plans include Tagalog translation and helping out on Java packages and motujava work. Then, once things get settled at my new work, I'll start contributing more on server-related matters.
<dous> :)
<Seveas> More people from the philippines - BusinessTour effect or is jsgotangco spamming heavily?
* highvoltage is Jonathan Carter, alhtough just partially here
<jsgotangco> lol
<jsgotangco> nah he's been with us from the start
<Kamion> dous: your translation activity seems to have fallen off this year; are you still interested in keeping that up?
<jsgotangco> doing some translations lately
<dous> Kamion, yes. It's just that I moved to a new job this january
<dous> Kamion, I don't have broadband at home so I usually do foss work during free time at work
<Kamion> ok, fair enough
<Kamion> you mention you've been helping with support tickets
<dous> jsgotangco, :)
<Kamion> the support system's fairly new and has never actually been announced :) what's your impression of the situation there?
<dous> well, when I have free time I just look at the list of requests and try to comment on anything that I have knowledge about
<Seveas> so just like one would do on a mailing list
<Kamion> my question is really whether the list of requests is getting out of control or not
<dous> some submitters seems to lose track of their requests though
<jsgotangco> but they're subcribed to it from the start
<Kamion> what do the other Philippines folks think of dous' advocacy activity?
<dous> they don't come back to comment on answers to their requests sometimes
<dous> so I can't confirm if my answers have solved their problem
<Kamion> that much is inevitable, I think
<Seveas> dous, that's the same in any bugtracker, people lose interest
<jsgotangco> pretty good although i would love more Rosetta love
<raphink> :)
<jsgotangco> it doesn't take that much to translate 10 lines  a day :)
* raphink <3 Rosetta :)
<Seveas> "10 lines a day keeps the evil jsgotangco away"
<raphink> lol
<jsgotangco> but its more into our local setup
<irvin> ack for dous 
<Seveas> that should be the translator motto ;)
<dous> Kamion, more volunteers would be much appreciated. it's not out of control yet, imho.. :)
<Kamion> ok, well I'm happy to see somebody doing Java bug gardening too
<Kamion> elmo?
<Seveas> Launchpad activity so far is limited to nov-23 to dec-23
<Seveas> which is only one month
<irvin> jsgotangco will setting be tighter control on translations
<Kamion> Seveas: you misunderstand the karma listing 
<Kamion> Seveas: it doesn't go back forever
<Seveas> right
* Seveas hits launchpad
<elmo> ack
<dous> Seveas, yeah.. but it's harder to make improvements with little feedback :(
<jpatrick> Kamion: I'm back sorrt
<Kamion> for instance according to https://launchpad.net/people/kamion/+karma I've only been active since 2006-01-27 :-P
<Seveas> Kamion, that sounds pretty accurate :p
<dous> hehe
<Seveas> anyway, both present CC members ack'ed so it's up to mako/mark now
* mhz whishes launchpad could record wiki+irc collaboration time
<jsgotangco> irc hah
<Seveas> thanks for coming dous, we'll let you know what the final 'judgement' is :)
<dous> Seveas, thanks a lot! :)
<mhz> (and talks)
<raphink> Kamion: you could be more active then :p hehe
<Seveas> jpatrick, you're up for the 3-liner
<Kamion> wait
<dous> mhz, that would be cool.. 8-)
<Kamion> Kinnison has to leave at 1300; I'd like to bring him forward
<Seveas> ok
<ogra> ++
<Kamion> Kinnison: ?
<Kinnison> Hi, I am Daniel Silverstone, 25 yrs old, UK based, and I have been working on Launchpad for the past 14 months (in particular I am primarily responsible for the Soyuz backend) and have in my spare time done various things for Ubuntu, centred primarily around Toshiba laptop support. I have also been a Debian developer for about five years now.
<Kinnison> In particular I have written the new toshiba_acpi kernel module support for punting the hotkeys into the ACPI subsystem, support for this in fnfxd and acpi-support. I was also the Debian maintainer of lua50 and lua40 for quite a while and a Debian ftpmaster for some time.
<Kinnison> I intend to work on general bug fixing as part of the ubuntu core development team during the dapper timeframe and then more generally on laptop support for toshibas and various general laptop related work.
<jsgotangco> go toshiba
<ogra> cheer cheer cheer !
<Kamion> Kinnison: do you expect you'll be getting some of the laptop stuff done pre-dapper?
<Kinnison> Kamion: yes, I have been fixing bugs in gnome-power-manager since I first installed dapper last night :-)
<Kamion> heh
* jsgotangco toshiba needs serious work
<Kamion> so does g-p-m
<jsgotangco> "my"
<ogra> Kamion, his fix will be in todays g-p-m upload :)
<Mithrandir> I think we should approve Kinnison since he's so cuddly. :-)
<ogra> Mithrandir++
<jsgotangco> :)
<raphink> :)
<Tonio_> ;)
<Kamion> full disclosure, Kinnison's a Canonical employee, we all know him, and basically he's been doing lots of useful stuff forever. any objections?
<Kamion> (kthxbye)
<Seveas> none at all
<ogra> :)
<raphink> it's just quite logical forhim to be ine
<raphink> in
* irvin was surprised he added himself
<irvin> :)
<Kamion> I suppose it remains to be seen whether Soyuz is a positive contribution to Ubuntu ;-)
<sivang> go Kinnison  !
* Kamion runs away
<raphink> irvin: yeah
<Tonio_> raphink++
<ogra> Kamion, *giggle*
<Seveas> Kamion, bwahaha :)
<jsgotangco> +1 for the cuddliness?
<Kamion> irvin: he's moving to the Canonical distro team for a while, it's part of the job
<sivang> +2 for cuddliness
<Kamion> elmo: ?
<ogra> jsgotangco, nah, more than +10 :)
<jsgotangco> not to mention mao master
<sivang> indeed
<elmo> ack
<Seveas> cool beans 
<Kamion> jpatrick: you're up
<Kinnison> thanks guys
* Kinnison goes to get ready for his meeting with the mortgage advisor
<ogra> congrats 
<Kinnison> urgh
<sivang> Kinnison: welcome aboard :-)
<jsgotangco> oh well
<Seveas> Kinnison, have fun :)
<Seveas> sivang, not yet :)
<Kinnison> sivang: well, pending mako/sabdfl
<Kamion> sivang: point of order, not without a third vote
<raphink> welcome to the team Kinnison 
<Kamion> (END of point of order.)
<raphink> oh yes right
<raphink> sorry ;)
<sivang> Kamion: heh, noted :)
<Seveas> jpatrick, ?
<jpatrick> I am Jonathan Patrick Davies. Currently living in Girona, Catalonia, Spain - although I am originally from London (UK). Been using Linux since around Kubuntu's first release. And I'm a member of the Kubuntu Team
<raphink> almost welcome to the team Kinnison 
<mhz> Kinnison: welcome!!!!
<jpatrick> I make KDE packages and help out on the forums and am am admin of kubuntu-es.org
<ogra> jpatrick, is quite busy in -motu with this strange desktop stuff starting with the K :)
<raphink> jpatrick packages quite a lot, we see good packages from him on REVU
<jpatrick> I also do some translations at Rosetta
<raphink> he's quite an active kubuntu dev for sure :)
<Seveas> jpatrick, you say you repackaged yakuake? Why - doesn't it create an unneccessary diff with Debian?
<ogra> i bet Riddell might also want to speak up for him
<Tonio_> yep, very active on REVU
<jpatrick> Seveas: Mez took over take
<Riddell> jpatrick helps out in numberous ways, I fully support his membership
<jpatrick> that*
<raphink> :)
<Seveas> woah - translator karma of doom
<Riddell> Seveas: it was packaged in kubuntu long before debian did it
<zakame> hi all
<Kamion> urgh, looks like repackaging to add a patch system
<Kamion> fair enough in this specific case from the sound of it, but in general do try to avoid that
<jsgotangco> 2318 karma nice
<mhz> zakame: hi.. so far, 1 candidate 'under consideration', 1 new memeber, evaluating jpatrick 
<zakame> heya mhz :) thanks for updating
<Kamion> that's a hell of a lot of karma for en_GB - I didn't think that many translations that were actually distinct from the original could be fitted in ;)
<elmo> Kamion: if we did it first, I think it's hard for people to complain about our use of patch systems
<Kamion> elmo: as I say, fair enough in this specific case
<jpatrick> Kamion: I still have to start ca and es but I'm waiting for the K apps
<elmo> jpatrick: K apps?
<jpatrick> KDE
<elmo> sure, but what are you waiting for?
<Mez> Sevea: the diff with debian is becuse jpatrcik created yakuake package first - debian dev decided to do it differently
<Riddell> KDE still isn't in rosetta (will be when dapper gets imported)
<elmo> ah, I see
<elmo> Riddell: how come?
<elmo> Riddell: and when is dapper due to be imported?
<Riddell> elmo: the .pot files were not generated in the breezy packages, we had to sort out that gettext-kde issue.  dapper will be imported at string freeze I think
<ogra> for the time being you could translate kino to feel more at home even if its a gtk app :)
<elmo> oh, right, gettext-kde, *gag*
<raphink> hehe
<Seveas> well, jpatrick gets a ++ from me, contributions look s&s
<Riddell> (you'll be pleased to know that KDE 4 has now been changed to current GNU gettext)
<Kamion> Riddell: (hooray)
<raphink> ++ for jpatrick :)
<hunger> yeah, jpatrick did lots of debs I am using. If I may vote I'll ++ for jpatrick.
<raphink> Riddell: which means we won't need kde pot dirty patches in kde 4 :)
<Kamion> as usual, voting is restricted to CC members
<jsgotangco> awesome karma too
<ogra> but you can cheer ;)
* hunger shuts up then.
<Seveas> Kamion, it was a cheer, not a vote
* raphink just cheers
<Kamion> anyway, I'm happy with jpatrick's contributions so far
<elmo> how do I see the specific translations  a person's done in launchpad, or can I stil lnot?
<elmo> yeah, ack from me too
* Mez is surprised he isnt already a member. 
<Kamion> (Kubuntu-wise anyway, I have no idea about the en_GB stuff yet)
<jpatrick> Mez: I missed the early meetings :(
<jpatrick> elmo: https://launchpad.net/people/jpatrick/+translations ?
<Mez> jpatricks done quire a bit en_GB stuff I believe (lol - though I havent for a while - and i run that team!)
<Seveas> jpatrick, that does not list the individual translations
<Seveas> anyway, 2 acks from the CC is all we'll get for now
<jpatrick> ah right
<Seveas> jpatrick, thanks for coming!
<jpatrick> no problem :)
<Seveas> Gloubiboulga is next
<Gloubiboulga> I'm Gauvain Pocentek, a 26 years old french music student. I'm an (x)ubuntu user since the warty release. I've spent a lot of time on irc and forums helping users during the last months, trying to make their Ubuntu life easier. I have also worked on more technical stuff, like packaging, bugs reports/patches and a few merges/syncs. I have now a little experience in packaging, and try to help new packagers, with some comments on REVU (which make
<Gloubiboulga> s me improve my packaging skill too).
<Gloubiboulga> For the future, I really want to keep helping user, because the quality of the Ubuntu community is certainly a huge advantage for Ubuntu (and of course its technical quality, but everyone here is concerned by this). I also plan to keep helping with bugs stuff, merges for dapper+1, packaging...
<Gloubiboulga> I also really think about french translations of some wiki.u.c pages about how to help Ubuntu, because we don't have a lot of doc about this on French web pages.
<raphink> Gloubiboulga is very active on REVU and in the MOTU world in general, as well as in #ubuntu-fr. He has begun to send me reviews for REVU lately, and I've been happy to sponsor since they are of very good quality.
<raphink> I would be veyr happy with his membership :)
<jsgotangco> music interesting..i've seen a music project in the forums too
<Tonio_> raphink++, nothing more to say to me ;)
<Kamion> nice to see lilypond is still alive; what's the state of development there?
<raphink> Gloubiboulga is an emacs music hacker ;)
<Gloubiboulga> version 2.7.32 is out, with a lot of improvments :)
<Gloubiboulga> I'm currently working of the docs' translation
<Kamion> (from the point of view of somebody who last looked at it in about 2002)
<mhz> .oO(ig Gloubiboulga is a mac user then that's an incredible contribution already :D )
<Gloubiboulga> Kamion, 2002 is far far away :)
<Seveas> any other MOTU to vouch for packaging work?
<raphink> Kamion: lilypong has changed a lot since. It now integrates in LaTeX fully iirc
<mhz> .oO(ig Gloubiboulga is an  emac user then that's an incredible contribution already :D )
<zakame> raphink: emacs!
<Gloubiboulga> mhz, :)
<raphink> zakame: pico!
<zakame> Gloubiboulga: anything with emacs gets my nod ;)
<jsgotangco> bah
<zakame> Seveas: I've seen Gloubiboulga do good work, I'd love to have him aboard :)
<Seveas> hmm, siretart, poke
<Seveas> could you make something in REVU so it is easy to see someones contribution there?
<raphink> Seveas: you can read the motu-reviewers ML to see contributions
<raphink> ;)
<elmo> ack from me
<elmo> (brb)
<Seveas> raphink, during CC meetings, when we want to check such things, it is nice to have an overview
<raphink> grep for gauvain in the ML you'll see ;)
<Seveas> just like launchpad/wiki
<raphink> sure Seveas 
<zakame> raphink++
<Seveas> Gloubiboulga's contribution so far looks well, I give him a \o/ (that's a cheer)
<Kamion> Gauvain has several mentions on dapper-changes so far, which makes me happy
<raphink> oh nice cheer :)
<Kamion> keep it up
<Kamion> ack from me
<raphink> \o_   \o/  _o/ 
<Gloubiboulga> thanks :)
<jsgotangco> nice one
<zakame> Gloubiboulga: rock on :D
<Seveas> ok, cool, Kamion happy, elmo acked, so we're down to the next and last one already. Gloubiboulga thanks for coming and keep up the good work
<Seveas> atie, you're up :)
<atie> My name is Chris Ha. I live in Houston, work for a company as developer.
<atie> My Ubuntu work started with making my comments and researches to the BetterCJKSupport wiki since November last year and as Day 1 Dapper user, I made number of bug reportings mostly beta user and CJK user concerns.
<atie> With that I was thinkg it better to be some sort of team so discussed with Korean Ubuntu users and established Ubuntu Korean LoCoTeam. I am acting as contact for KoreanTeam, our team members are about 25 people. Also, there is Ubuntu CJK Testers team including 4 CJK LoCoTeam contacts about a month now.
<atie> My main concern at this point is about translations for Dapper, by myself I translated some Dapper packages and products, and coordinating with Ubuntu and GNOME translators in Korea to prepare upcoming translations. Meanwhile myself and KoreanTeam are doing some translations and documentations to the Devel wiki at ubuntu.or.kr .
<atie> I may put too many lines here, because I'd like to use Ubuntu/Kubuntu dev version, I'll continue to use dev version as my desktop OS doing same things above. I believe that is helping Ubuntu Korean users and developement of Ubuntu.
<Kamion> smurf: have you been working with atie on the locoteam stuff already?
<Seveas> atie, CJK needs lots of love, what are your plans for it?
<ogra> atie, we're about to add scim to main, any thoughts or hints from an experiencend user about that ? 
<jsgotangco> i've been to the korean team channel in hanirc.org since i came from seoul and they have a very very active community 
<atie> Seveas, I can put what Korean users having trouble with 
<atie> orga, I have votes from Korean Users
<atie> orga, and I did ask IM developer in Korea.
* Seveas brb - phone
<jsgotangco> atie, DAUM?
<ogra> might you be able to help with the scim stuff (even through bugreports or feedback would be fine) ? 
<atie> orga, yes I can.
<ogra> cool :)
<atie> actually now I am testing skim.
<Kamion> we need a strong group of maintainers for scim etc.; it's not something that the core development team have experience with
<ogra> we're really lacking in this area ...
<Seveas> re
<jsgotangco> minghua can only do too much
<atie> I am not a linux developer, but I think I can find my way to help scim/skim and other CJK stuff
<elmo> jsgotangco: (s/too/so/)
<ogra> you dont need to be a developer to give valuable feedback ... and thats most we need ... :)
<atie> orga, I think so.
<Seveas> elmo, perhaps not, from what I heard he does an qwful lot ;)
<Seveas> s/q/a/
<ogra> telling us we do the right thing and pointing out the drawbacks is the most important stuff here
<ogra> getting a good QA in place for input methods ...
<atie> IM is start point for CJK users
<atie> there are more stuff to improve like as ID3 tag...
<Kamion> somebody to collate problem reports from CJK users would be good too, once we do get scim integrated
<atie> I am monitoring bugs related to CJK.
<Kamion> since most of us can only go "uh?" when confronted with a problem report about a language we don't speak and a script we can't type :)
<Kamion> especially if the problem report is of the form "but it works fine with uim" or whatever
<atie> and assign ubuntu-cjk-testers for them.
<atie> means I am testing myself and get feedback from our team and users
<Seveas> How big is the u-cjk-t team?
<ogra> minghua is already doing a great job with the packages even if he might need help, thats not the most critical part ...
<atie> Seveas, 9 including 4 loco contacts
<atie> so fair enough I think, since our team members are 25.
<ogra> anyway, a big cheer from me for atie ...
* Seveas \o/
<jsgotangco> \o_  \o/  atie  \o/  _o/
<atie> orga, thanks
<Seveas> atie, it's ogra, not orga :)
<ogra> :)
<atie> sorry
<jsgotangco> heheh
<mhz> the now institutionalized \o\  \o/ /o/
<jsgotangco> good thing a is far from y
<ogra> Seveas, as long as i'm around thats ok :)
<Seveas> jsgotangco, ;)
<Mez> lol @ jsgotangco 
<ogra> Seveas, (and also makes me feel less chaotic ;) )
<Kamion> I'm ok with atie for membership, from the sound of things
<Kamion> elmo: ?
<elmo> yeah, ack from me
<elmo> (sorry was just reading some of the bugs)
<Kamion> glad to see more people with a clue about CJK
<ogra> ++
<Seveas> ClueJK :)
<Kamion> right, so in lieu of actually being quorate I think we're done
<Kamion> any other business?
<Seveas> anyway, atie was tha last one for now, thanks for coming!
<atie> I hope more on Dapper+1
<jsgotangco> yeah should be better
<atie> thanks everyone.
<Seveas> Kamion, time of next meeting?
<ogra> atie, congrats :)
<elmo> Seveas: let's put that off till we can talk to mako and find out mark's schedule
<atie> ogra, thx
* Kamion looks up sabdfl's travel plans
<Seveas> elmo++
<elmo> Kamion: using the cvd-calendar program?
<mhz> atie: i'm very happy for you
<Kamion> sabdfl's still on tour in two weeks' time, although at the end of the tour
<Kamion> elmo: https://wiki.canonical.com/AsiaBusinessTour2006
<atie> mhz, me too. thanks to you.
<elmo> Kamion: I recommend the cvd upgrade ;)
<zakame> congrats atie 
<Kamion> so yeah, it might be better to use cvd-calendar and switch to a different day that week
<Seveas> cvd?
<jsgotangco> claire davis
<Kamion> Seveas: mark's secretary, among many other functions
<Seveas> ah
<mhz> lol
<ogra> Seveas, the walking calendar
<atie> can I ask one question? I'd be welcomed to CC meeting at any time.
<mhz> yup
<ogra> atie, sure
<jsgotangco> of course
<Kamion> atie: sure, but general questions are usually more appropriate elsewhere
<Seveas> everyone is welcome, Ubuntu member or not
<raphink> :)
<atie> thanks guy.
<mhz> atie: and you can always bring new ideas of cheering \o/
<mhz> :D
<Kamion> ok, sounds like we're done
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Seveas] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 8 Feb 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 9 Feb 08:00 UTC:  Dapper Development Status | 14 Feb 20:00 UTC:  Technical Board | 15 Feb 20:00 UTC: MOTU | 16 Feb 20:00 UTC: Kubuntu
<Kamion> meeting adjourned
<Seveas> thanks all, see you in 2 weeks :)
<jsgotangco> atie, i think ubuntu-kr should move to freenode =)
<mhz> Thank you guys!
<Seveas> Kamion, I'll write the summary of this later today. I'll be less summarizing so mark/mako can draw their conclusions/votes from it.
<jsgotangco> (if possible)
<atie> jsgotangco, sometime soon I'll bring ubuntu-ko to ubuntu team 
<atie> we need more contrubutions.
<atie> as volunteers
<zakame> atie: I think what jsgotangco meant was the IRC channel
<jsgotangco> still good :)
<atie> zakame, I know. But at this point few people can be on.
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> hanirc is pretty big too
<atie> jsgotangco, but in my plan.
<jsgotangco> cool
<jsgotangco> how about chabrothers?
<atie> he is my age, I'd prefer some young mans ahead of us. ^^
<jsgotangco> ahh
<jsgotangco> atie, cheers then, i'm going to have some late nite dinner first
<atie> we're establishing so we'll see.
<atie> jsgotangco, bye
<atie> bye everyone.
<Simira> ogra: ping?
<Simira> u
<Simira> I actually sat by the computer, on irc, and managed to miss the meeting!
* Simira feels utterly stupid and goes to a corner to hide and feel ashamed
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-02-05
<pochu> @schedule cet
<Ubugtu> Schedule for CET: 05 Feb 21:00: Mozilla Team | 07 Feb 13:00: Edubuntu | 08 Feb 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Feb 23:00: LoCo Teams | 13 Feb 17:00: Forum Council | 13 Feb 21:00: Technical Board
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Mozilla Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 07 Feb 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 08 Feb 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Feb 22:00 UTC: LoCo Teams | 13 Feb 16:00 UTC: Forum Council | 13 Feb 20:00 UTC: Technical Board
<gnomefreak> 5 minutes?
<gnomefreak> is everyone close to ready?
<crimsun> I'm in a phone conf atm, but I should be finished in a few mins
<gnomefreak> ok we can wait
<AlexLatchford> Howdy
<gnomefreak> :)
<AlexLatchford> ok let me fire up the minutes
<gnomefreak> AlexLatchford: take your time Freddys not here and others are busy atm
<AlexLatchford> aha ok, I need to neaten them up a little first
<crimsun> ok, back. Apologies for the delay.
<gnomefreak> crimsun: its ok.   doesnt ubuntu deal with licencing and firefox?
<gnomefreak> k are we ready?
<asac> ack for me
<crimsun> ack
<keescook> ack
<heno> ack
<heno> ... ducks
<gnomefreak> What's happening about a Thunderbird debugging symbols package? This is needed urgently.
<AlexLatchford> Can we go in order?
<gnomefreak> AlexLatchford: skipping point 1 for now
<AlexLatchford> wait, it is lol
<asac> i was offering to produce some ... however I now got to know that we won't need it as they should be generated automagically
<keescook> gnomefreak: the problem, as I understand it, is that security update builds don't get the dbgsyms packages published correctly.
<gnomefreak> going over last meeting is not top proirity
<keescook> it should exist for feisty, though, do they not?
<gnomefreak> asac: apport is gonna do tb?
<gnomefreak> pittis repo has debug package for tb in feisty only
<keescook> gnomefreak: I think pitti is working on this already, I will check with him.
<asac> keescook: good point ... however that is not an issue for us imo
<asac> I can ask him
<asac> I don't know though if this will be set up for edgy
<AlexLatchford> it is for the new apport structure?
<AlexLatchford> I am presuming yes
<gnomefreak> not sure my tb doesnt crash :(
<AlexLatchford> so we would need to produce an entriely new package for Edgy and Dapper
<keescook> asac: okay, you're closer to pitti's timezone.  :)
<gnomefreak> ok someone is gonna ping him?
<asac> yes ... will ask him
<gnomefreak> ty
<gnomefreak> ok lets go to What will our team crash policy be? It may not coincide with BugSquad, however for our purposes, we have need to work around that. --Freddy
<AlexLatchford> So asac to call pitti about tb debug package
<gnomefreak> AlexLatchford: yep
<pochu> @now
<Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: February 05 2007, 20:13:44 - Current meeting: Mozilla Team
<pochu> hi guys!
<gnomefreak> AlexLatchford: have you heard from Freddy?
<AlexLatchford> Howdy
* gnomefreak may wan tto wait on his
<AlexLatchford> erm, not recently
<AlexLatchford> he said he would be here though didn't he?
<asac> I think our main focus should be to sort out duplicates and bring crasher bugs in a shape that we can submit them upstream
<AlexLatchford> I agree with asac
<gnomefreak> agreed
<keescook> I've done a bit of work on apport-retrace to make sure it gets a fuller retrace (plugin libraries, etc)
<AlexLatchford> I don't like blindly disrgarding all the not reproducible crashes
<gnomefreak> what do people think about https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-mozillateam/2007-January/000037.html
<gnomefreak> i was asked about it
<asac> keescook: whats the state of apport-retrace ... can we run apport-retrace locally already? e.g. without asking users to do so?
* zakame wakes up
<zakame> hi all
<keescook> asac: yeah, you can sort of trick apport-retrace into rebuild a trace.  it's not at its final state (where it will download from launchpad directly)
<keescook> hi zakame
<keescook> basically, to do a retrace:
<keescook> - download ProcMaps.txt, CoreDump.gz
<asac> keescook: ah ... ok ... thats why it failed with me :)
<zakame> hi keescook! ooh, mozilla team meeting...
<gnomefreak> than run apport-retrace on them?
<keescook> - gunzip CoreDump.gz
<keescook> - apport -o /tmp/retraced.crash -r CoreDump -x /usr/lib/firefox/firefox-bin -m ProcMaps.txt -v -d -C /tmp/ddebs /dev/null
<keescook> you'll need to have the same arch, version of program, plugins, etc installed to do this correctly
<gnomefreak> there has go to be an easier way
<keescook> gnomefreak: not yet.  but there will be eventually
<gnomefreak> k
<AlexLatchford> hmm, how big is the debugging symbols package?
<asac> dunno ... quite big
<AlexLatchford> could we not get it included by default?
<gnomefreak> i suggest since we dont always get the best of info from  users we ask them to run the retrace
<keescook> pitti is working on an automatically chroot'd retracing thing
* gnomefreak can sit there all day guessing what the user has installed
<asac> firefox-dbg Size: 50310432
<gnomefreak> mozilla-thunderbird-dbgsym Size: 133966
<AlexLatchford> from what I see there are alot of users who get a crash, report it and then get told to redo it, why not put a message in Apport that checks to see if the debugging package is installed and asks the user to install it if necessary?
<AlexLatchford> couldn't that be done?
<gnomefreak> AlexLatchford: it is
<gnomefreak> the new apport sends all info to bugs for you
<AlexLatchford> with debugging symbols?
<gnomefreak> thats why you see 6 or so files (parts of crashreport)
<asac> AlexLatchford: i hoped that we don't need that roundtrip, but could symbolized the report on our own
<keescook> AlexLatchford: I'd agree, we should open a bug against apport-gtk for this feature.
<gnomefreak> AlexLatchford: it has everything i believe
<AlexLatchford> can I clarify, in feisty will apport get the debugging symbols somehow for you, with or without your permissions before uploading the reports?
<keescook> asac: if it's a local crash, the apport-retrace command is much shorter.  :)  apport-retrace -o /tmp/retraced.crash -v -d -C /tmp/ddebs /var/crash/CRASH
<keescook> AlexLatchford: presently apport-gtk does not do this.  I am unclear if pitti intends this to change before feisty releases.
<AlexLatchford> it would make our lives a lot, and also I am sure there are other packages out there that could benefit from this kind of feature also
<gnomefreak> not best example but https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/beryl-settings/+bug/83449
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 83449 in beryl-settings "[apport]  beryl-settings crashed with UnboundLocalError in statePopup()" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] 
<gnomefreak> there are around 5 or 6 parts not 3
<keescook> AlexLatchford: I'd agree.
<gnomefreak> but i dont think it skips debugging info
<gnomefreak> or it would be useless
<AlexLatchford> hmm ok
<AlexLatchford> well asac can you contact pitti about this also, seeing as you can contacting him about the tb debugging symbols?
<gnomefreak> this is gonna fit in with pinging pitti?
<AlexLatchford> believe so
<asac> so can we resymbolize reports send from a package without debug symbols or not?
<asac> i can do that ... anyway, I need to know what to ask :)
<keescook> asac: if a CoreDump is available, you can resymbolize the report after the fact, yes.  Without the core, no luck.  :)
<AlexLatchford> no so we don't get any unsymbolized reports at all, apport should notice when the debugging symbols are not installed and request for them to be
<AlexLatchford> before submitting the report
<gnomefreak> keescook: i still havent seen that done. they say you can but never seena  command for it
<gnomefreak> do we really want to download *everyones* crash reports?
<keescook> gnomefreak: I just pasted the steps above.  :)  the final goal is to have Launchpad do the retracing automatically.
<keescook> right now, we have to do it by hand
<gnomefreak> keescook: oh its just the retrace
<crimsun> I'd say it's feasible IFF a binary-only plugin/extension is /not/ involved
<gnomefreak> we dont have that many plugins for ff
<gnomefreak> or tb
<crimsun> e.g., a disproportionate number are attributable to Adobe Flash
<gnomefreak> although i keep being pinged to add some like colorzilla
<gnomefreak> with the number of bugs that are sitting there and the 10 or so of us. its not smart to add more plugins, just incase anyone is watching that has either asked about them on bugs or in IRC
<gnomefreak> ready to move forward?
<AlexLatchford> hmm ok, so asac can you talk to pitti about the tb debugging symbols and about adding in debugging symbol auto detection system also?
<AlexLatchford> (clarify the action needing to be taken)
<gnomefreak> pinging is gonna turn into all day convo
<AlexLatchford> not now, later
<asac> yes I will try to figure out what the idea is and what can be done.
<AlexLatchford> aha thanks
<AlexLatchford> think we are now John
<gnomefreak> ok david emailed about a stats report. see https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/beryl-settings/+bug/83449
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 83449 in beryl-settings "[apport]  beryl-settings crashed with UnboundLocalError in statePopup()" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] 
<asac> ok ... for procedure of processing crashers, can we agree to start to resymbolize crashers that contain core dumps on our own
<gnomefreak> crap
<asac> ?
<gnomefreak> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-mozillateam/2007-January/000037.html
<asac> and then try to find duplicates?
<gnomefreak> asac: yes
<AlexLatchford> onto Bug Stats
<AlexLatchford> this is something that I think could be pretty cool, to track our progress
<gnomefreak> i think it would be nice to have but how important is it?
<gnomefreak> and im not shooting it down im asking how important to people is it?
<asac> i have no opinion on that
<gnomefreak> i say if someone has time to do it do it but other wise we have more pressing issues IMHO
<AlexLatchford> It;s not something we need to waste time on, but a few emails wont hurt
<bdmurray> I'm working on doing some general bug statistics on a per package basis.
<gnomefreak> cool bdmurray :)
<crimsun> I don't think it's really worthwhile for FF [it'd be akin to tracking stats for say, ubiquity] 
<asac> we could establish something like a monthly/quarterly status announcement about the progress ... somewhere :)
<Admiral_Chicago> sorry, math problem
<AlexLatchford> well we have close to the number of bugs Ubiquity does
<gnomefreak> ;)
<AlexLatchford> I believe
<gnomefreak> god i hope not
<Admiral_Chicago> I though it was at 4. convered from UTC improperly
<gnomefreak> ok moving on
<gnomefreak> Admiral_Chicago: 20:00 UTC
<gnomefreak> Can we remove the disclaimer yet?
<gnomefreak> i say yes.
<Admiral_Chicago> so do I
<heno> anyone here tried using bughelper for triaging?
<gnomefreak> k
<gnomefreak> heno: cant i havent figured out how to write the clue yet
<asac> has there been an approval?
<heno> gnomefreak: heh, ok
<gnomefreak> dont need one
<AlexLatchford> I didn't think we needed offical approval
<gnomefreak> heno: if you got time feel free to write it :)
<Admiral_Chicago> we don't
<asac> k
<AlexLatchford> well ill remove it now then
<gnomefreak> i have a feeling its gonna be a 3 year project for me
<gnomefreak> or ill ping david see if he wants to write them
<gnomefreak> Build up a relationship with the Mozilla, Adobe and any other teams we need to correspond with.
<bdmurray> gnomefreak: I'd be happy to write them
<gnomefreak> if you got time go for it :)
<Admiral_Chicago> i'm sorry, I just got here, can someone fill me in on what we have done so far
* gnomefreak needs to learn what it needs to look for
<bdmurray> I'd need to know what type of stuff you see frequently though.
<gnomefreak> plguin crashes
<gnomefreak> lol
<gnomefreak> plugin
<AlexLatchford> Freddy: believe we are on Working with other Teams
<asac> I have some connection into the mozilla project ... and better ones to debian.
<asac> though debian will be our upstream in future
<gnomefreak> Admiral_Chicago: most so far is asac is gonna talk to pitti about debugging symbols/crashreports apport
<Admiral_Chicago> okay let me pull up the meeting page, my network is being slow
<Admiral_Chicago> gnomefreak: ty
<gnomefreak> asac: will or will not?
<asac> s/will be/will not be/
<gnomefreak> ah :)
<asac> :)
<gnomefreak> ok before moving on. who here can read a backtrace good?
<asac> however we still might tap there know-how by monitoring the patches they include
<crimsun> whew
<AlexLatchford> yes, do we have the change the thunderbird logo in future releases?
<Admiral_Chicago> i can not
<asac> thunderbird will become official too
<AlexLatchford> I cannot read one and diagnose where the problem really lies, I can detect if the debugging symbols are not installed
<asac> firefox will be repackaged
<keescook> gnomefreak: I can understand them, but I am not very familiar with the mozilla codebases.
<crimsun> I'm with keescook on the matter
<asac> actually it will almost be the same, but the patches will be sorted out and need approval by mozilla corporation
<gnomefreak> bdmurray: ill contact david about the bug helper clues
<gnomefreak> find out what we need to use
<gnomefreak> do we have any upstream adobe connections?
<asac> i doubt it.
<AlexLatchford> not that I know of
<AlexLatchford> we have rhelmer from Mozilla
* gnomefreak didnt think so
<AlexLatchford> but none from Adobe
<Admiral_Chicago> nope, iirc David had one
<gnomefreak> well with flash crimsun and our motu team should be fine. since last time i checked flash doesnt give a damn about patching thier drivers
<gnomefreak> if they did flash 7 would have fixed flash 7 issues
<gnomefreak> AlexLatchford: your topic is next care to take it for a few i have phone call
<gnomefreak> Contacts list. (Build up a list of people to contact about certain types of bugs). - Alex
<AlexLatchford> Well my idea is to build up a contacts list, basically when you have a confirmed bug, you want to assign it to someone who is going to fix it for the next release
<AlexLatchford> if its an Ubuntu bug that is
<AlexLatchford> This list probably won't just be Mozilla Specific in the end, but say if there is a dependency error, who do you assign it to, to get it fixed?
<AlexLatchford> I have no clue. There should be a list of people who you can assign problems to so they can fix them
<Admiral_Chicago> well this gets to the idea of restructuring our wiki (/me has been busy so haven't got around to it)
<AlexLatchford> yes
<Admiral_Chicago> i'm going to structure them as A. Bug Reported, Bug Triagers, etc
<AlexLatchford> I think that this list isn't something we as a team can do much about, we really need to push it up the pile a bit
<gnomefreak> still on phone but im tempted to say let the person know. example i have a flash bug been confirmed i go to crimsun and say look i have this what do you what to do with it?
<AlexLatchford> yeah the restructure is happening gradually, I have rewritten most of the documentation apart from the ones relating to bugs
<AlexLatchford> yes gnomefreak, its sort of like a list of people, so if you have a flash bug you can assign it to crimsun to deal with later
<AlexLatchford> but if you don't know who crimsun was who do you assign it to?
<Admiral_Chicago> hopefully we don't come into that
<crimsun> just a note, but we really should not just 'assign' like that
<heno> assigning bugs to people can be tricky
<Admiral_Chicago> I would like to see our team working to a point were we know who can handle what
<heno> they may not appreciate that :)
<crimsun> e.g., I much prefer to be subscribed to instead of assigned to
<heno> perhaps using tags would be better ?
<AlexLatchford> well thats a better way of dealing with it
<heno> crimsun: ++
<asac> i think first there should be a way to tag bugs so one can properly search for bugs by a topic (e.g. 'flash')
<asac> is there something like that in malone?
<AlexLatchford> hmm, yes
<heno> asac: launchpad does have tags
<gnomefreak> asigning people to a bug is bad because we dont know how backed up they are
<AlexLatchford> thing is assigning a bug to someone forces them to deal with it
<gnomefreak> we can tag them
<heno> but their are a bit chaotically used
<asac> yes ... better make it easier to find bugs of your preference
<AlexLatchford> there are hundreds of confirmed bugs in the firefox list
<asac> by categorizing them somehoww
<AlexLatchford> but what actually happens to them?
<Admiral_Chicago> and lots to close...
* gnomefreak working on packaging atm
<heno> the team could set up a tagging policy
<AlexLatchford> Admiral_Chicago: agreed
<gnomefreak> not this sec
<heno> where each tag is defined in the wiki
<asac> heno: agree
<AlexLatchford> heno: yes that would make sense
<Admiral_Chicago> a tag database that is used in house?
<AlexLatchford> yes
<heno> mt-tagname == MozillaTeam-tagname, e.g.
<heno> Admiral_Chicago: what do you mean, database?
<gnomefreak> what are the tags gonna do for us? just make it easier to find bugs?
<asac> so who will set up the initial list
<Admiral_Chicago> heno: a list of our tags that we all use
<heno> gnomefreak: you can sort without having to assign
<asac> i think the list of tags will evolve eventually ... for now it would be a good start to setup the most obvious tags
<heno> less contentious
<heno> Admiral_Chicago: right
<AlexLatchford> well thing is that setting tags is useful, but how can we actually get bugs fixed?
<asac> bugs are either fixed by upstream
<Admiral_Chicago> is that what we agree to use, maintain a list of tags to use? I'm for it
<asac> or they are fixed by anyone of the team ... e.g. me
<AlexLatchford> +1 Admiral_Chicago
<gnomefreak> yeah lets do it. can someone make a wiki about tagging how to when to and list of tags
<AlexLatchford> asac: we cannot fix bugs, we can offer up patches, but we cannot upload I don't think?
<Admiral_Chicago> in reality, most of these bugs are upstream bugs OR user errors
<asac> AlexLatchford: I can :)
<Admiral_Chicago> mostly the later
<AlexLatchford> I will setup the initial tagging page
<gnomefreak> AlexLatchford: sure we can
<Admiral_Chicago> gnomefreak: will do it
<gnomefreak> ty Admiral_Chicago
* gnomefreak hopes he meant he will do it
<AlexLatchford> who is going to setup the tag list then?
<Admiral_Chicago> AlexLatchford: we can start it on the mailing list
<AlexLatchford> aha ok, Freddy can you start the ball rolling?
<asac> just start and tag all flash issues
<asac> :)
<asac> maybe we can discuss on irc before a new tag is added
<Admiral_Chicago> AlexLatchford: sure, I'll make a note on Knote and do it after I finish my reading for tonight
<gnomefreak> +1 asac
<AlexLatchford> +1 asac also
<asac> and if you feel you need a tag, discuss it
<asac> :)
<Admiral_Chicago> asac: +1
<asac> nothing formal ... i don't think it should be necessary to wait till we have an official meeting
<AlexLatchford> ok so Freddy to start balling rolling on tagging list for bugs
<asac> if people complain we can always make a more strict policy
<AlexLatchford> agreed
<gnomefreak> start with flash
<AlexLatchford> yes
<Admiral_Chicago> Flash is probably where most of our issues come from. rather, Flash 9
<Admiral_Chicago> err 7
<gnomefreak> Admiral_Chicago: i would agree if i can read the damn traces better
<asac> one more important tag I would like to suggest right away is upstream-dupe
<asac> actually often bugs are posted for which one is sure that there is a corresponding upstream bug
<gnomefreak> +1 but that is a long week
<AlexLatchford> ok, moving on I think?
<heno> asac: you can also set an upstream tag linking to their BT
<Admiral_Chicago> I don't ever use teh Mozilla Bug Tracker, I suppose I should start...
<asac> but looking up right away is not possible either ... its too disruptive and one might not find it in bugzilla on the first glance
<Admiral_Chicago> yes moving it along AlexLatchford
<heno> accessibility?
<AlexLatchford> indeed I believe
<gnomefreak> heno: yep
<asac> heno: yeah ... but a tag where i have not already found the url
<asac> but am sure that one exists
<heno> OK, let me do a little intro:
<asac> actually upstream does this too ... they add the dupe keyword if they know that there is a duplicate, but cannot find it
<gnomefreak> we really nee da wiki on how to read crash reports
<asac> :)
<heno> A great deal of effort over the past year has gone into making a better screen reader for Linux (Orca -- try it) There is a considerable number of blind people running Ubuntu with Orca already.
<Admiral_Chicago> i can't write that, I hope someone else will gnomefreak
<asac> gnomefreak: thats not that simple ... the basic is pretty clear
<heno> For the next 6-12 months we will mostly be focusing on applications and Firefix is at the top of that list. It's important for obvious reasons (access to the web), but also non-trivial to get access right.
<Admiral_Chicago> heno: it doesn't work on Feisty ATM
<asac> but to derive real info can be pretty hard
<heno> Admiral_Chicago: what, FF3?
<heno> or Orca?
<Admiral_Chicago> heno: Orca
<heno> I sure there are intermittent bugs
<heno> it's never really worked with Firefox though
<heno> and that's the point
<heno> until FF3 at least
<heno> The Gnome/Orca people are working closely with Mozilla on this. That includes people from Sun and IBM. All the accessibility effort is going into Firefox 3 and TB 2. As the #1 accessibility distro we should be closely involved as well.
<gnomefreak> we want orca to work with firefox?
<Admiral_Chicago> of course
<heno> gnomefreak: of course!
<gnomefreak> :)
<asac> heno: they go in TB 2?
* gnomefreak uses tb2 and ff3
<asac> and not ff 2 ?
<heno> asac: the a11y fixes, yes
<heno> they are not focusing on ff2 for that
<gnomefreak> asac: are they working on a ff2.5 or something?
<heno> not that I know of
<AlexLatchford> heno: so we need to test Orca with Firefox more?
<asac> gnomefreak: not that i heard of
<AlexLatchford> so we can iron out the bugs, or is there something specific we can do?
<gnomefreak> k than i can see why only ff3
<heno> AlexLatchford: for example yes, or just be awre of the issues
<heno> we are likely to see bugs filed that seem od to the 'normal' user
<heno> Firefox refuses to speak this page ...
<gnomefreak> orca speaks?
<Admiral_Chicago> good pount
<AlexLatchford> aha ok, well maybe a wiki page explaining the more common accessibility issues?
<AlexLatchford> ones that triagers may come across
<gnomefreak> thought it was a magnifing glass type app
<asac> maybe start tagging them accessible :)
<Admiral_Chicago> can someone tell me what we decided on crash reports?
<gnomefreak> +1 AlexLatchford and asac
<heno> http://svn.gnome.org/viewcvs/*checkout*/orca/trunk/bugs/bugs.html#firefox for examples
<Admiral_Chicago> +1 to accesibility
<gnomefreak> Admiral_Chicago: asac is gonna talk to pitti for the most part (i woul dlike him to have something straight forward to ask)
<heno> also see http://www.ubuntu.com/access
<AlexLatchford> thanks alot heno
<asac> i think we decided that I get details about apport support and we try to resymbolize where possible to see duplicates by backtrace
<Admiral_Chicago> okay sounds good
<heno> thanks for listening :)
<asac> heno: sorry :-P
<gnomefreak> if we get bughelper to work for us we will breezy through dupes
<AlexLatchford> well we will have a chat about this on the mailing list, try to get up a wiki page outlining common issues for triagers to look out for and maybe setup an accessibility tag also
<heno> asac: ?
<gnomefreak> let me know whos doing wikis in the next few weeks please ther eare some things we need to get in there but it can wait
<AlexLatchford> (hehe wiki pages solve all problems)
<asac> heno: misread I guess ... nevermind
<AlexLatchford> New membership policy up next?
<gnomefreak> Freddy i suggest your point go before new mebershop
<gnomefreak> membership
<gnomefreak> New member education plan. I have some ideas, will discuss at the meeting. -- Freddy
<Admiral_Chicago> kk
<Admiral_Chicago> sorry was in the restroom
<gnomefreak> asac: im gonna leave you with the sunbird one again :(
<Admiral_Chicago> What I would like to see, before we start is getting new members to come in and interact with the team
<gnomefreak> Admiral_Chicago: how so?
<Admiral_Chicago> i don't like having bugs reports in my inbox that we have to retriage
<gnomefreak> lol
<AlexLatchford> agreed
<Admiral_Chicago> gnomefreak: for one, we assign things to MozillaTeam not to ourselves
<gnomefreak> your in the wrong feild than
<Admiral_Chicago> hold on I wrote some notes on it...
<gnomefreak> Admiral_Chicago: thats outside people using the bugsquads links
<Admiral_Chicago> so heer is what I would like. First, get these new members in the IRC channel
<Admiral_Chicago> One thing I like is when we are exchanges ideas on bug # X, we as a team can see how we communticate and deal with bugs
<AlexLatchford> agreed
<Admiral_Chicago> secondly, getting new members in the channel will introduce us to each other.
<Admiral_Chicago> We are a team after all and need to know who is doing what and have a sense of unity.
<Admiral_Chicago> The third part of that is I would like to show new members around stack traces
<Admiral_Chicago> obviously, this will take some time because we need to brush up on this as well
<AlexLatchford> yes, I think that the most daunting task for new triagers is definately crash reports
<AlexLatchford> maybe a total rewrite of the GettingStarted wiki page is where to start with that?
<Admiral_Chicago> yes, learning to read them, how to sort them, tell what is an extension, plugin etc
<AlexLatchford> linking to in from the Membership page
<Admiral_Chicago> have a link?
<asac> yes, but there are lots of others which can be more easily triaged by finding its upstream bug for instance
<AlexLatchford> Admiral_Chicago: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/GettingStarted
<AlexLatchford> Outlines a few dos and donts
<Admiral_Chicago> thanks AlexLatchford
<AlexLatchford> but nothing really much like actually getting started
<Admiral_Chicago> ideally, we could have a mentor type thing, before they are accepted on the team
<gnomefreak> how about before someone can become a member (if they are not experenced with bugs or mozilla bugs they meet us in IRC and they can ask us what to do so they learn?
<Admiral_Chicago> gnomefreak: ^^
<gnomefreak> how many of our members have QA access other than me and asac
<gnomefreak> oh and crimsun
<Admiral_Chicago> I've done this with the Chicago LoCo, teaching to triage
<Admiral_Chicago> not I, I would have applied the last HugDay but I was busy
<asac> ok ... so we encourage new members to first start bug-triaging ... and offer to help them here on irc ?
<gnomefreak> yes unless ofcourse they are an easy pick
<Admiral_Chicago> like crimsun :)
<asac> s/new members/new contributors/
<gnomefreak> i have 2 people that applied with like 0 karma and no other teams so im kind of reluctant to accept them atm
<asac> ask them to contribute ... can anyone tag bugs?
<AlexLatchford> yes asac
<Admiral_Chicago> I would like our team to be open where if someone wants to help, they find a place. i have not seen that in some other teams.
<asac> if so maybe they want to help going through the list?
<gnomefreak> once the wiki is up sure any one can
<asac> and tag them ;)
<AlexLatchford> in the left side menu when you are on a bug page
<Admiral_Chicago> gnomefreak: in that case, we email them and ask them to come and meet with us.
<gnomefreak> Admiral_Chicago: i will
<gnomefreak> sometime this week
<Admiral_Chicago> we show them around and if they do good work, at the next meeting (or whenever), we can vote on them
<Admiral_Chicago> per david's suggestion
<gnomefreak> w ewill go through that i think. he did fairly good on that iirc
<Admiral_Chicago> he == ?
<gnomefreak> ok with the new members and the tags can we write up a quick wiki on that mainly an outline and when we get to it we will add tags ect...
<gnomefreak> he == david
<gnomefreak> its the final agenda pint
<Admiral_Chicago> gnomefreak: i will do that after dinner.
<gnomefreak> Admiral_Chicago: doesnt have to be today
<Admiral_Chicago> gnomefreak: well i have everything open in Knotes, I'll do it sooner rather than later
<AlexLatchford> yeah. (I have added the wiki suggestion to the Todo page)
<asac> ok ... we are done with membership/education?
<AlexLatchford> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Todo
<gnomefreak> ty AlexLatchford
<Admiral_Chicago> i'm done
<gnomefreak> asac: yes its your turn with pochu and the sunbird thing i asked you about during the patching
<gnomefreak> pochu: ok your up
<asac> yes ... i think in general it would not be a wise idea to package sunbird atm
<pochu> hey :)
<pochu> well, there is somebody who wants to see sunbird in the repos
<pochu> debian has it
<AlexLatchford> what release status is Sunbird at?
<asac> last time i looked it was not released from stable mozilla branches
<pochu> 0.3
<asac> and authors refused to do so
<pochu> 0.5 in a little time
<asac> upon request
<AlexLatchford> hmm and its not stable?
<asac>  ... but releasing from trunk makes serious stability/security nearly impossible
<gnomefreak> pochu: we cant add anything to our repos that doesnt have a stable release date
<Admiral_Chicago> 0.3 atm
<pochu> I don't know what you want to say with stable, asac
<asac> it might be stable ... but upstream does not release under a stable branch policy
<pochu> gnomefreak: I use it and it's stable ;)
<pochu> asac: oh, ok
<pochu> then we can wait
<gnomefreak> pochu: what works for you doesnt mean it works for others
<Admiral_Chicago> stable on your system perhaps
<pochu> gnomefreak: of course :)
<pochu> maybe for feisty +1?
<AlexLatchford> I believe that Sunbird should be packaged for Ubuntu, but not for Feisty, maybe Feisty+1 if its ready
<asac> its not stable in terms on what you want in the release
<gnomefreak> pochu: lets see what mozilla does first
<pochu> gnomefreak: I'll mail the main dev, if you want
<gnomefreak> pochu: i suggest pushing upstream to releasse stable
<pochu> just to ask their plans
<asac> pochu: join #calendar
<asac> on irc.mozilla.org
<gnomefreak> pochu: but they are a bit more conerned about other things
<asac> i talked to some
<heno> Chandler will be out in preview form in April, which might steal a lot of Sunbird's thunder
<asac> if they have changed there mind .e.g. rlease from MOZILLA_1_8_BRANCH, then it might make sense
<heno> just sayi'n ...
<pochu> well, it's ok
<pochu> let's wait
<pochu> I'll talk the devs to see what are the plans, and I'll say you
<asac> great
<pochu> thanks guys :)
<AlexLatchford> sounds good to me
<AlexLatchford> I would like to see Sunbird in Ubuntu someday, but as a stable release so we don't get silly amounts of bug reports
<Admiral_Chicago> yup, we have enough work as it is
<gnomefreak> ok david prettty much goes in deeper to the same things we talked about today at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-mozillateam/2007-January/000041.html  would like some opinions on it and comments
<gnomefreak> AlexLatchford: lets get flash and ff under control before adding that much more work :)
<AlexLatchford> lol yes
<pochu> sounds reasonably
* gnomefreak is buried for most part in bugs. my spare time is learning to package
<Admiral_Chicago> is that it?
<gnomefreak> oh hey tag == depends (if a dependency issue is found)
<AlexLatchford> yes, I agree with Davids comments on point 1.
<Admiral_Chicago> hmm, okay we can do that
<gnomefreak> Now Martin Pitt and the launchpad team are working on a way
<gnomefreak> of dealing with the crash reports
<gnomefreak> does that mean he is working with martin?
<AlexLatchford> believe so
<asac> i will know more tomorrow
<gnomefreak> or should we ask asac to still ping him? i havent seen david in a while
<AlexLatchford> me neither
<asac> i will definitly ask :) no matter what ;)
<Admiral_Chicago> he's been busy.
<gnomefreak> oh my god
<AlexLatchford> I also agree on Davids point 3 about getting a singular version of flash to work flawlessly
<gnomefreak> AlexLatchford: i was just oh my godding about that
<gnomefreak> who here can write thier own flash app? to read flash movies
<asac> yes ... lets first sort them out and create symbolize patches ... then look what we can see.
<AlexLatchford> at the moment there are about 4 versions of the flash plugin (not gnash, just flash itself), we need to cut this down to just 1
<asac> who maintains those?
<Admiral_Chicago> true, but iirc, that is for different version
<gnomefreak> asac: i dont think anyone really does
<AlexLatchford> well how many flash versions do you need?
<AlexLatchford> there is Flash 9, thats all there should be
<AlexLatchford> then the alternatives, gnash etc..
<gnomefreak> AlexLatchford: breezy is still supported i think and we cant port flash9 for breezy
<gnomefreak> gnash works like shit
<Admiral_Chicago> yup, issues like that are the reason we have so many
<gnomefreak> a flash for each arch would do
<Admiral_Chicago> i just mark everything flashplugin-nonfee
<Admiral_Chicago> free
<AlexLatchford> +1 on gnomefreak
<gnomefreak> AlexLatchford: you offering to build them?
<AlexLatchford> lol no
<gnomefreak> ok if someone can talk to david about it maybe his connection at adobe can help but reemmber they are nonfree
<AlexLatchford> yes
<Admiral_Chicago> i'm mailing him now
<Admiral_Chicago> literally, I was emailing him
<gnomefreak> ok good wait to send it until we are done with him?
<Admiral_Chicago> yup
<gnomefreak> 4.  Wiki We need to recruit a writer to help us sort that mess out;)
<AlexLatchford> Well I have started on that
<AlexLatchford> I haven't got too far though
<gnomefreak> ok cool
<AlexLatchford> I have cleaned up a few pages, but I need to improve my actual knowledge a little more beofre tackling the others
<Admiral_Chicago> i'm supposed to be doing that aswell
<AlexLatchford> yeah, If you want to jump in thats cool
<Admiral_Chicago> i have knowledge about wiki formating
<gnomefreak> guys get outlines going to start with we can work out details later
<gnomefreak> speaking of docs team members
<gnomefreak> :)
<Admiral_Chicago> haha
<AlexLatchford> *rolls eyes*
<gnomefreak> Admiral_Chicago: are you ML admin?
<Admiral_Chicago> gnomefreak: no
<gnomefreak> just david?
<Admiral_Chicago> i think so, are you looking to admin / one of us?
<gnomefreak> i would like a whatchacallit
<Admiral_Chicago> I'm admin on ML for Chicago LoCo only.
<Admiral_Chicago> ?
<gnomefreak> moderator along with admin
<gnomefreak> add that to your email to him please
<Admiral_Chicago> doing that now
<AlexLatchford> want to move back to -mozillateam?
<asac> ok done?
<gnomefreak> if peopel want to talk about the membership council now or i can send it to ML
<Admiral_Chicago> gnomefreak: we can do that in mozillateam
<AlexLatchford> Well are we going to set one up?
<Admiral_Chicago> AlexLatchford: yes
<AlexLatchford> in mozillateam I think
<gnomefreak> k
<gnomefreak> meeting adjourned?
<gnomefreak> maybe spelled right
<Admiral_Chicago> yup
<Admiral_Chicago> err I say so
<Admiral_Chicago> to the meeting adjournment
<AlexLatchford> yep, I will get the minutes up later
<gnomefreak> ok good i have to get a few things done real fast i have a few questions that can be done in our channel whenever
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 07 Feb 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 08 Feb 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Feb 22:00 UTC: LoCo Teams | 13 Feb 16:00 UTC: Forum Council | 13 Feb 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 14 Feb 10:00 UTC: MOTU
<pochu> @now
<Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: February 05 2007, 22:33:27 - Next meeting: Edubuntu in 1 day
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-02-06
<lfittl> @schedule Vienna
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Vienna: 07 Feb 13:00: Edubuntu | 08 Feb 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Feb 23:00: LoCo Teams | 13 Feb 17:00: Forum Council | 13 Feb 21:00: Technical Board | 14 Feb 11:00: MOTU
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 07 Feb 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 08 Feb 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Feb 22:00 UTC: LoCo Teams | 12 Feb 20:00 UTC: Screencast Team | 13 Feb 16:00 UTC: Forum Council | 13 Feb 20:00 UTC: Technical Board
<stgraber> @schedule Zurich
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Zurich: 07 Feb 13:00: Edubuntu | 08 Feb 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Feb 23:00: LoCo Teams | 12 Feb 21:00: Screencast Team | 13 Feb 17:00: Forum Council | 13 Feb 21:00: Technical Board
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-02-07
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 07 Feb 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 08 Feb 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Feb 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Canada | 11 Feb 22:00 UTC: LoCo Teams | 12 Feb 20:00 UTC: Screencast Team | 13 Feb 16:00 UTC: Forum Council
<juliux> @schedule
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 07 Feb 12:00: Edubuntu | 08 Feb 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Feb 21:00: Ubuntu Canada | 11 Feb 22:00: LoCo Teams | 12 Feb 20:00: Screencast Team | 13 Feb 16:00: Forum Council
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Edubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 08 Feb 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Feb 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Canada | 11 Feb 22:00 UTC: LoCo Teams | 12 Feb 20:00 UTC: Screencast Team | 13 Feb 16:00 UTC: Forum Council
<jsgotangco> go! go! go!
<pips1> :)
<RichEd> hey ho hi there everyone
<pips1> who is here?
<RichEd> ogra_: you here Mr Technical ?
<RichEd> let me go look for ogra quicky
<juliux> hi all
<Kamping_Kaiser> i'm observing again :)
<willvdl> I am here but on a conference call at the mo
* pips1 spots Hobbsee in the crowd
<Hobbsee> heya pips1
* RichEd tables apologies from HighVoltage
* Hobbsee waves to jsgotangco, RichEd and others
<jsgotangco> hi
* Kamping_Kaiser pokes Hobbsee . lurker :P
<RichEd> we'll give ogra_ a minute or two more ... grabbing a wettie (sa slang for a drink) back in a sec
<RichEd> hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> Kamping_Kaiser: true.  until i get pinged.
<Kamping_Kaiser> i know :)
<Hobbsee> RichEd: you survived LCA then :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> (on the subject of lca, i typed my notes out today. bit scrappy, but if you want the miniconf ones i can email them to you RichEd )
<ogra_> hey
<ogra_> sorry, i'm late
<Hobbsee> heya ogra_
<RichEd> Kamping_Kaiser: that would be good :)
<RichEd> Hobbsee: yep. survived the conferenc, got slammed by jet lag and a bug on the way back
* pips1 wonders about feature freeze date
<Kamping_Kaiser> RichEd, can do then
<ogra_> so
<RichEd> okay, ogra ... technical ?
<Hobbsee> RichEd: ouch
<ogra> well, some good and some not so good news
<pips1> give us the good news first :)
<ogra> libpam_mount has a good bunch of problems, as well as i didnt find a proper method to replace the files in /etc/pam.d ...
<ogra> wihich is a bad thing foe edubuntu auth server and client
<Kamping_Kaiser> RichEd, sent
<RichEd> Kamping_Kaiser: tx mate
<ogra> i think i'll defer these two to feisty+1 since i think the implementation needs far more testing than i could give it tis cycle
<ogra> that will block fat clients as well ...
<pips1> ouch
<ogra> well, i dont want to go with a half baked solution
<RichEd> pity ...
<pips1> right..
<RichEd> agreed ... stability is essential ... else we fall into the rest of the grey muddle
<ogra> well, it's not only stability, but also finding more proper ways to implement it
<ogra> ltsp-sound: is done so far, tw packages waiting in the mai inclusion queue for review but thats it, its implemented ...
<ogra> thin-client-manager: (student-control-panel) is uploaded since yesterday, still pretty buggy but getting there
<cbx33> sorry guys
<pips1> \o/
<ogra> we al owe cbx33 a beer
<cbx33> heh
<ogra> for his awesome work
<cbx33> ogra: have you heard of TCOS?
<Fujitsu> I must say, TCM looks absolutely great!
<cbx33> it will work great soon too :p
<cbx33> jus a few bugs to iron out
<ogra> edubuntu-on-2-cds: ready for testing .... if you run a decent feisty with up to date gnome-app-install and update-manager packages, it should work like specced
<ogra> please test
<ogra> ltsp-manager: im still working on that one and hope i have uploaded a gui till tomorrow
<ogra> the backend part is done though
<ogra> which brings us a great set of modules for all kinds on ltsp admin work
<cbx33> nice
<ogra> (clicking together a web gui with python-ltsp will be a charm ;) )
<cbx33> ogra: seems like someone else is working on a TCM-esque tool
<cbx33> http://soleup.eup.uva.es/trac/wiki/TcosMonitor#Capturas
<cbx33> looks pretty feature rich actually
<ogra> yes, i know that
<ogra> i think tcm is on par with it, dont you ?
<cbx33> ahh...I'd never heard of it
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> the guys as TCOS commented on my blog post
<cbx33> s/as/at
<ogra> you should write some documentation how to write plugins for it after release :)
<cbx33> i will
<ogra> so we can get some external contributions
<cbx33> nice
<ogra> so i think thats about it with y specs .... i'm really sorry about the auth server stuff, and i already thought about only having ldap auth with no homedir mounting ... but that doesnt seem the right thing
<cbx33> ogra: we have a fair amount of new stuff
<cbx33> ;)
<ogra> so i'll put my focus on it next release and take less new specs
<cbx33> Jordan and I were looking at packages last night for the second cd
<ogra> cbx33, yes, but its a *hype* feature
<ogra> its the most users requested feature we have ...
<pips1> yep
<cbx33> Jordan wanted me to ask you....are we tied by the deadline of FF for MIR's on the second CD
<ogra> eve though i found the 2cd spec far more important i agree that we need something in that area
<cbx33> as someone said to him that it was largely up to you
<ogra> my plan is to have at least the essential bits in main and on the CD
<ogra> so people dont need to download the bits and pieces to set it up
<cbx33> cool
<ogra> i have three main inclusion reports pending for it ... lets see what pitti says :)
<pips1> ogra: what is blocking the auth?
<cbx33> ogra: did you see my question from Jordan?
<ogra> pips1, the fact that i'd have to fiddle with /etc/pam.d/* files
<ogra> and a bug n libpam-mount
<pips1> right
<ogra> pips1, imho the pam.d structure needs an overthought before we start doing stuff like replacing login methods in there
<ogra> it's not pluggable at all, you have to modify textfiles line by line ... i'd like to address a mechanism to properly change these files through just dropping files in place without the need to modify existing ones
<ogra> but time was to short and this wasnt specced
<ogra> (it's underlying architecture we didnt take into account during the speccing sessions)
* pips1 searches packages.ubuntu.com for libpam-mount.. "PAM module that can mount volumes for a user session"
<ogra> since the fat-client bit is doe but cant be included, i'll chop it down a bit and we can at least ship a kiosk module
<ogra> s/doe/done/
<ogra> pips1, its responsible for mounting the users homedir at login
<cbx33> yeh that stuff is tricky
<ogra> we dont gain anything without it apart from a more complicated user administration
<ogra> just ldap doesnt really help ...
<ogra> you need the combo of the different pieces and the integration
<ogra> there are pleant of howtos to set up ldap auth with pam-mount, so having the pieces needed for it on the CD shoud be a first step
<ogra> *plenty
<RichEd> we can also have a wiki page with the how-to info linked or embedded
<ogra> right
<RichEd> recipes for idjits
<RichEd> (my sort of level ;)
<pips1> so you are suggesting to re-package libpam-mount ... for debian?
<ogra> well, its not easy ...
<ogra> you need some small skills ....
<cbx33> small skills
<cbx33> hehe
<ogra> editing the right textfiles and working on the commandline and with apt there ...
<ogra> but if you have these and just follow a good guide it shoud work ...
<RichEd> that's why I said recipes ... people can follow step-by-step instructions withought understanding the theory
<RichEd> *without
<ogra> right
<pips1> would it be possible to configure auth manually on a feisty ... while keeping an upgrade path to feisty+1 intact?
<ogra> it should, yes ... i need to talk with moquist about it ...
<pips1> ok
<ogra> anyway, please test the serveraddon iso ...
<ogra> thats the most important spec we have so it deserves plenty of testing
<pips1> gotcha :)
<ogra> sound tests on thin clients are appreciated as well btw
<ogra> is rodarvus here ?
<pips1> so the serveraddon iso is now built with every 'Herd' release?
<ogra> yes
<ogra> and with every daily
<pips1> what is currently on the second cd?
<ogra> currently only tuxtype is on it :P
<pips1> ah
<ogra> i'll chnage the seeds before the weekend
<ogra> so there should be more apps then
<cbx33> ogra: Jordan and I worked on that last night
<cbx33> did you see my question above?
<ogra> right, you said that
<pips1> cbx33: what is the status?
<cbx33> well Jordan has 7 apps earmarked
<cbx33> with a total of 15 MIRs
<ogra> cbx33, i think we can add software later as well, but not add features to it ...
<pips1> he did the 15 MIRs himself? already?
<cbx33> no not yet
<ogra> somewhere n the wiki is a detailed definition of the freeze states i thin
<cbx33> but I wrote a script to make it easy
<cbx33> ogra: that would be useful
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeatureFreeze hmm
<ogra> edubuntu on 2 cds is a low prio goal ...
<pips1> doesn't look good
<cbx33> no
<ogra> we have some stuff in main we can add though
<pips1> "we ship a add-on cd with ... with ... 3 apps on it!" =8-o
<cbx33> one pacakge that won;t be getting in anytime soon
<cbx33> celestia :p
<ogra> pips1, nope
<jsgotangco> 2CDs?
* jsgotangco shudders
<ogra> we'll ship an add-on CD with 3 apps and 90 langpacks :P
<pips1> hehe
<ogra> notMax, i really think we'll have a lot more on it
<pips1> that will make the south american ppl happy :)
<ogra> sorry notMax ... autocompletion
<ogra> right
<ogra> and others as well
<pips1> sure
<ogra> i think xcfe can go in it as well
<ogra> so highvoltage gets a chance to realise his edubuntu-xfce spec one day ;)
<pips1> what's the status of edubuntu-menus-completion ?
<ogra> dunno
<pips1> on LP, it says pending approval
<RichEd> ogra: that's good news ... the buy from NorhTec ... low spec appliances is pushing hard for us to work on education projects
<ogra> i havent seen jordan for quite some time
<RichEd> s/buy/guy
<cbx33> we were working last night
<cbx33> he's been pretty busy
<RichEd> ( laser has been in edubuntu )
<ogra> i know i see him in my backlog ....
<ogra> but not at times where i was in there ...
<pips1> hmm
<ogra> but the spec isnt approved ...
<pips1> feisty+1 then..
<ogra> Keybuk is listed as approver
<pips1> so when is the feature freeze date?
<ogra> ok, if there is no moodle update from rodarvus i think tech is done
<RichEd> pips1: tamarra : 8 feeb'
<ogra> pips1, tomorrow
<pips1> rodarvus: ?
<RichEd> rodarvus appears to be here, but is not reponding :( ping
<willvdl> I'm back
<RichEd> hey willvdl
<RichEd> just a quick highlight for you from a few mins ago:
<RichEd> <ogra> i think xcfe can go in it as well
<RichEd> <ogra> so highvoltage gets a chance to realise his edubuntu-xfce spec one day ;)
<cbx33> heheh
<willvdl> woot.
<willvdl> ogra, 90 language packs?
<RichEd> I said this was good news re Mike Barnes and his ubuntu on edu appliciances.
<willvdl> that's going to take some work
<RichEd> *appliances
<willvdl> RichEd, true.
<ogra> RichEd, that wont get us official support for xfce from canonical though
<cbx33> is moodle likeley?
<pips1> RichEd: expand ?
<ogra> cbx33, i havent seen anything yet, according to rodrigo it is ...
<willvdl> ogra, are language packs maintained acording to relevant package? or is there someone overseeing it in general?
<ogra> willvdl, pitti and carlos
<RichEd> a thai company under US management produces low spec machines, targetting africa and developing countries
<willvdl> ogra cool. I know some of the african langs are a bit behind and just need to be repackaged
<ogra> willvdl, carlos for the rosetta side, pitti for distro
<RichEd> they are low cost, and importantly low power devices ... suitable for non-airconditioned batter environments
<RichEd> battery / alternate power
<RichEd> they are using ubuntu with xfce to reduce spec requirements
<willvdl> ah, I didn't know he was using xfce
<RichEd> they are pushing aggressively into S America and Africa, and are wanting to meet us to work together
<pips1> nice one
<pips1> ... more testers for edubuntu .. hopefully :)
<ogra> yeah
<willvdl> as long as the testers feedback to community
<ogra> ok, i'm done with tech next ?
<cbx33> what's next?
<RichEd> tech documentation
<willvdl> Cool. Handbook needs contributions! There are a few indipendant efforts, I'm just trying to merge them
<cjwatson> ogra: FWIW I think the important bit of edubuntu-on-two-cds to get in before feature freeze was the infrastructure; obviously the earlier the better for the rest of it but I don't think FF is really a hard deadline there
<cbx33> nice cjwatson
<ogra> cjwatson, its about the MIRs
<ogra> we dont have MIRs for all apps yet ...
<cbx33> jordan is working on them
<cbx33> I would have helped but i have the book deadline tomorrow
<cbx33> so i wrtoe the script to help him out
<pips1> ogra: do language packs for edubuntu-desktop exist, in Main, yet?
<ogra> pips1, define "language packs for edubuntu-desktop" ?
<ogra> what would make them special ?
<pips1> nothing, I suppose
<ogra> right
<willvdl> stelis has written some stuff and is going to merge into doc-team SVN
<pips1> language packs are handled differently in the distro process though, right?
<ogra> the language-support packages have translations for all apps in main ....
<pips1> right
<ogra> right, their creation is handled differently
<willvdl> does anyone know if sbalneav has written any LTSP stuff?
<cbx33> there's a lot of LTSP stuff
<cbx33> i saw the other day
<ogra> willvdl, most of it
<pips1> good question
<willvdl> urk, I must of botched my svn update
<pips1> hurray
<ogra> at least in the edubuntu book
<willvdl> handbook?
<ogra> yeah
<willvdl> ok, I definately botched my update
<ogra> the ltsp section was written by him
<willvdl> sweet. stelis is writing an install guide
<willvdl> we jsut have to merge his efforts
<ogra> for edubuntu ?
<willvdl> yip
<ogra> for which installer does he write it ?
<ogra> the text one i hope ....
<willvdl> well, it's background stuff at the mo but for feisty I hope
<ogra> for ubiquity the instal guide is: pop in livecd, doubleclick "install now", answer the questions, reboot :P
<willvdl> yeah but some screenshots and default info would be nice :)
<willvdl> plus theres stand-alone vs ltsp install
<cjwatson> there is already an installation guide. I would much prefer any guide for the text installer to be merged into that
<cjwatson> see help.ubuntu.com and the installation-guide source package
<ogra> as long as we ship the server cd i'm more intrested in d-i howtos :)
<willvdl> cjwatson, is it not in the doc-team repo?
<cjwatson> willvdl: no, it comes from Debian
<ogra> willvdl, nope
<willvdl> hmmm, we need to make it _very_ accessable to new users
<cjwatson> it's important for me to be able to keep it reasonably in sync with Debian
<willvdl> I didn't even know about it
<willvdl> do we have one for ltsp install?
<cjwatson> not yet, but it could be added as a section
<cjwatson> the stuff I think it's important not to reinvent is all the automatic installation bits
<cjwatson> those change from release to release
<cjwatson> I don't much care if there's a separate easy install guide that doesn't refer to that at all :)
<willvdl> agreed. I'm more concerned about having it boldly linked from somewhere obvious
<cjwatson> but I don't want to have to maintain preseeding documentation in multiple places (and it's the installer team that will always end up maintaining preseeding docs, in practice)
<willvdl> ok, I'll look into it
<willvdl> can someone link me to the install guide? I can't seem to find it
<ogra> willvdl, the ltsp install from d-i is only one menu item ...
<ogra> you select it and watch a progress bar
<ogra> (or use edubuntu and its selected for you)
<willvdl> ogra, it may be simple but I believe there's great value in referencing it somewhere
<willvdl> for example, install guides seldom include partioning guidelines
<pips1> what about the documentation for TCM ?
<ogra> right ...
<ogra> pips1, in the works afaik
<pips1> will that live on the wiki only for feisty?
<pips1> cbx33: ?
<pips1> ogra, does ltsp-management-gui need doc?
<ogra> pips1, it will ship what it needs
<ogra> app docs are usually in the package
<pips1> i.e. a 'Help' button that triggers yelp with the according help text..
<pips1> ?
<ogra> well, as apps do that, yes
<willvdl> pips1, integrate help is a coming spec
<willvdl> "more" integrated rather
<pips1> ic
<willvdl> shall we move on?
<ogra> sure
<ogra> whats next ?
<RichEd> willvdl: anything more, or can we move on to artwork
<cbx33> artwrok
<cbx33> right
<ogra> is kwwii here ?
<willvdl> well, from my side it looks like I've got some exploring to do
<cbx33> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuArtwork/Palette
<ogra> http://sinecera.de/edubuntu.png i got that one recently
<cjwatson> willvdl: it's linked from the front page of help.ubuntu.com.
<cbx33> yp kwwii did that
<ogra> yep
<cbx33> lisa's done some concept characters
<ogra> looks great imho .... even i dont like that glossy style we shouldnt step to far away from ubuntu
<cbx33> and will be making one more with the three characters as at graduation
<ogra> so its about time to adopt it
<willvdl> cjwatson, I'm aware of that link. Can I chat to you afterwards?
<cjwatson> sure
<ogra> cbx33, so do you work closely with kwwii ?
<cbx33> ogra: kwwii wants us to come up with some designs that he'll help us refine
<ogra> ok
<pips1> that sounds like a good way to collaborate
<cbx33> yup
<cbx33> when i say us
<cbx33> i relly mean lisa
<cbx33> she's doing all the work
<ogra> its very important that he's in the loop
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> he is
<cbx33> we keep meeting
<ogra> good
<RichEd> agreed. early appoval or awareness will short-cut any crunch deadline issues
<RichEd> ping ? has the conversation gone dead ... or me ?
* ogra is still here
<ogra> are we done with artwork ?
<cbx33> thinkso
<willvdl> looks like it
<ogra> willvdl, pips1 ? and news from the web front ?
<RichEd> okay ... other documentation ... community docs ...
<willvdl> yip
<RichEd> I'll update:
<cbx33> the edubuntu chater in the book looks good
<cbx33> ogra updated it
<cbx33> and made usre I hadn't made ny big mistakes
<willvdl> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu/Wiki/SiteMap is coming along
<willvdl> it is an overview of what I'm putting in the wiki
<willvdl> WIP, still adding bits on how to contribute
* RichEd is loading
<willvdl> remeber that page is just a site map, not a landing page
<RichEd> let me add my 2c here ... as it will have some impact
<RichEd> newz2000 (matt nuzum) is doing a revamp of ubuntu.com and is moving it to Drupal
<ogra> does it have any impact on us ?
<willvdl> yip. spoken to him at length
<ogra> we're using drupl since the beginning
<RichEd> he is going to create sub-areas for "portal like information" with www.ubuntu.com/education being one of the first areas he will look at with us
<willvdl> static info goes in web. dynamic info moving to wiki
<ogra> and our server is separate, isnt it ?
<pips1> ogra: yes
<ogra> ah, so *we will have impact one the ubuntu page* now :)
<pips1> :)
<willvdl> what will be in that portal?
<RichEd> well what it means that we'll have an "ubuntu and education" area on ubuntu.com
<RichEd> as well as our edubuntu.org which we will continue to look after
<RichEd> and also the wiki
<willvdl> the wiki's at least are the same thing
<RichEd> so matt will look at the education solution space, and edubuntu and ubuntu and kubuntu will all have a spot in the education picture
<ogra> which doesnt make it easier
<willvdl> ogra, I imagine it will jsut be general overview stuff
<willvdl> the meat must stay in the wiki
<RichEd> it will be aimed at decision makers coming into ubuntu from the top down, and wanting to explore education solutions
<RichEd> so, yes, it will be overview info, and will link to our own pages where there is any real meat required
<RichEd> but it will give an education department (for example) the idea that they can use ubuntu servers in the datacenter / server farm and edubuntu in the classroom ...
<RichEd> and get support for both from canonical ... as well as the community
<RichEd> the main impact it will have is that the community area that pips1 and I have been planning will now be more clearly defined.
<willvdl> how so?
<RichEd> we'll keep the user space for fringe stuff that does not fit in any official resource areas.
<RichEd> so the consideration will be by default for any information we want to add: "does this fit into an approved ubuntu or edubuntu space" ...
<RichEd> and only exception information or discussion etc. will be in the ubuntu-education area
<RichEd> I'll be putting up a wiki page to work out what goes where.
<RichEd> So if kids are joining up to post news about their school, we do not want them to create a launchpad account before they are able to post a news item or comments on user issues.
<RichEd> But by the same token we do not want people posting news etc. to areas where it looks as if they are speaking on behalf of our community.
<RichEd> So we'll have the fringe space as a place to catch info, and revise it for quality, and then move it to an official space when it is cleared.
<willvdl> same with the forums?
<pips1> I think of the community space of "where all the action takes place" and the ubuntu.com website as "official top-down, settled info", while the wiki is somewhat an intermediary place for people that want to contirubute to edubuntu more extensively (i.e. documentation, packaging, bug fixing, rather than "just" discussing).
<RichEd> yep. if someone wants to create a forum topic for swopping cool pictures created by 8 year olds using tux-paint ... then that stays in the user communtiy space.
<RichEd> similarly, for people to discuss *any* application they are using, regardless of compliance to our policies, they can create a thread.
<pips1> willvdl: ubuntuforums is focussed on *buntu foremost, and slanted towards helping to use/configure the OS and Apps in *buntu...
<RichEd> if lots of users comment on the application, then we will review it (using the users to do user level reviews) and then move it "across the border" into our official space if we want to serioudly consider it for universe or main
<RichEd> at LCA, everyone was very keen to have a space where kids and teachers can review an application, for age level, usability, curriculum fit etc.
<RichEd> and as the cream floats to the top, we'll tackle the good bits
<pips1> in the education community space, the focus should be on education.. not only apps, but also content.. even references to content available elsewhere on the web...
<ogra> well, depends on your POV
<RichEd> same thing for resources ... if we see that there are useful helpful people in the community space, we'll encourage them into our core community to help them skill up via the path of documentation contributor etc. to add bandwidth
<ogra> for me from a tech side the focus *is* on apps :)
<RichEd> agreed ogra. but people also want to swop content links, school-projects etc.
<ogra> indeed
<ogra> i just wanted to poit that we have to cover both :)
<ogra> *point
<RichEd> so we'll keep that away from our core space, but provide an umbrella where people can swop that info, and feel that ubuntu / edubuntu is a cool community to help them find a home
<RichEd> so we'll even encourage skolelinix and debian-edu and k12ltsp people to share in the education conversations
<RichEd> and hope that they will "all see the light" and have a religious revalation at some point
<RichEd> *revelation
<ogra> heh
<pips1> maybe think of the online education space as "additional services, from the (greater edu + foss) community, for the (more specific edu+buntu) community"
<willvdl> and fall of their horses?
<RichEd> the idea is that we use *as little of our resource bandwdith as possible* and it must be driven "by the users for the users" etc.
<RichEd> we can look at the wiki page I'll have up next week and discuss
<RichEd> willvdl: any more doc / web stuff ? we've got 8 mins left
<willvdl> not from me. just that:
<willvdl> keep looking at https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu/Cleanup to see what we can fix
<pips1> well, that is putting it negatively... I think of it as: offer a platform for community exchange.
<RichEd> I was hoping to be able to officially announce our Ubuntu Education Summit, and release the web page I have ready to go ... but the powers that be want to announce the Ubuntu Developer Summit in one jpint release.
<RichEd> *joint
<RichEd> So. I'll just be able to give the overview for today.
<pips1> Also, i want to add, that the new community site will only fly if we get quality contributions from the exisiting edubuntu core ppl and hopefully some early and good input from other communities (guada, etc)
<ogra> well, its on the public wiki :)
<RichEd> ogra yes, but clan sayes silbs wants to let the balloons go herself :)
<ogra> oki :)
<ogra> she gets all the fun :P
<RichEd> We have had approval for a 2 day education summit, which will be in the first week off May in Seville, Spain.
<RichEd> *of
<RichEd> Thursday & Friday.
<RichEd> The summit will mainly be aimed at Educators and Decision Makers ...
<RichEd> With presentations on success stories in FOSS in education ...
<RichEd> And discussions around training & support etc ...
<RichEd> The idea is to provide a high confidence level to people contemplating the awful future that Vista promises for them ... in terms of licencing, costs, and the migration issues.
<RichEd> And to show them that Edubuntu is a viable alternative, mature enough to do the job.
<pips1> Seville, looking forward to it ! :)
<RichEd> We will have some technical discussions, but these will mainly be with tools & 3rd party developers arond relationships and integration.
<RichEd> We'll have some discussions around "feature requests" and "future direction" but the meat of the feature work will take place at UDS as already established.
<RichEd> UDS follows 2 days after our summit.
* RichEd is done
<RichEd> time is done as well
<RichEd> any more issues from anyone ?
<willvdl> nope
<pips1> UDS will be where?
<RichEd> going once ...
<willvdl> see y'all, I've got to make some desperate phone calls before close of day
<pips1> cu
<RichEd> same place ... follow on event
<pips1> ic
<RichEd> going twice ...
<RichEd> thanks all ... that's a wrap
<ogra> yay
* elkbuntu kidnaps ogra
<pips1> thanks
<Kamping_Kaiser> hehe
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 08 Feb 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Feb 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Canada | 11 Feb 22:00 UTC: LoCo Teams | 12 Feb 20:00 UTC: Screencast Team | 13 Feb 16:00 UTC: Forum Council | 13 Feb 20:00 UTC: Technical Board
<Lure> @schedule ljubljana
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Ljubljana: 08 Feb 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Feb 22:00: Ubuntu Canada | 11 Feb 23:00: LoCo Teams | 12 Feb 21:00: Screencast Team | 13 Feb 17:00: Forum Council | 13 Feb 21:00: Technical Board
<lfittl> @schedule Vienna
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Vienna: 08 Feb 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Feb 22:00: Ubuntu Canada | 11 Feb 23:00: LoCo Teams | 12 Feb 21:00: Screencast Team | 13 Feb 17:00: Forum Council | 13 Feb 21:00: Technical Board
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-02-08
<ogra> @schedule
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 08 Feb 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Feb 21:00: Ubuntu Canada | 11 Feb 22:00: LoCo Teams | 12 Feb 20:00: Screencast Team | 13 Feb 16:00: Forum Council | 13 Feb 20:00: Technical Board
<mdz> morning
<fabbione> hey mdz
<dholbach> heya mdz
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Ubuntu Development Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 10 Feb 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Canada | 11 Feb 22:00 UTC: LoCo Teams | 12 Feb 20:00 UTC: Screencast Team | 13 Feb 16:00 UTC: Forum Council | 13 Feb 20:00 UTC: Technical Board
<mdz> cjwatson,doko,sfllaw,pkl,tkamppeter,asac,mvo,Riddell,iwj,kwwii,ogra: ping
<cjwatson> yo
<ogra> pong
<asac> here
<doko> here
<mvo> hello
* ogra imagines cjwatson with a basecap
<fabbione> mdz: sfllaw is on his way
<Riddell> good afternoon
<mdz> cjwatson: heard from till?
<mdz> Keybuk: ian and ken?
* kylem waves.
<sfllaw> Pong.
<ogra> till was around in -devel earlier
<cjwatson> (cjwatson) Henrik: "sudo AT-SPI looks like it's finally happening, but needs a fix in /root/.orbitrc"; can we do that some other way to avoid having to change dotfiles in /root?
<Keybuk> they're both here
<cjwatson> I'm dropping that off the agenda because I noticed it was discussed by e-mail already
<Keybuk> where here =~ seen them online this afternoon
<mdz> cjwatson: see -devel
<mdz> ah
<heno> cjwatson: yes, he discussion is in full flow upstream again
<iwj> Hi everyone.
<mdz> ok, let's get started
<heno> we should go with a user work around and wait for it to get fixed properly (of course it still affects ubiquity badly)
<mdz> cjwatson: Tim isn't here today, right?
<cjwatson> no, holiday; that's noted on the agenda
<mdz> agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelTeamMeeting20070208:
<mdz> cjwatson: let's put that at the top in the future
<mdz> and I'm here :-)
<cjwatson> mdz: sure, I'll edit the template
* pitti waves to the mdz-vac-bot
<mdz> er, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelTeamMeeting20070208 (no trailing punctuation)
<mdz> are there any additions or deletions to/from the agenda?
<Keybuk> gnargh!
<Keybuk> COLIN, PLEASE OBEY WIKI LOCKS
<cjwatson> huh? I see no lock errors
<cjwatson> perhaps I missed it, if so sorry
<Keybuk> np; you just did it twice in a row to me :p
<BenC> FYI, ogra is listed twice on wiki, once with "NO REPORT..." and once with a report
<fabbione> BenC: once for each of ogra's personalities
<Keybuk> I suspect ogra added it himself
<mdz> ok, taking the agenda as-is
<Keybuk> ogra: you're most welcome to participate in the meeting, but please do get your report in by the end of Wednesday -- we pre-edit the agenda and send it out; if you add it yourself, people may not see it
<ogra> yeah i did
<mdz> "New Archive Team" has no name attached to it
<ogra> Keybuk, yes. i'll be on time next week, really sorry for that
<mdz> er, wrong agenda
<Keybuk> mdz: errrr
<mdz> asac: your agenda item?
<mdz> (asac) Alexander wants to go over his firefox packaging changes with Ian.
<cjwatson> that was one I added on asac's behalf to ensure that that got done soon
<iwj> asac: Sure, how about right after this meeting ?
<mdz> sounds like something the two of you could take care of out of band, rather than in this meeting
<cjwatson> (since it was in his report)
<cjwatson> it certainly doesn't need to happen in the meeting
<mdz> ok
<Keybuk> ACTION iwj and asac to talk about firefox packaging changes
<asac> iwj: actually I am not here today :) ... I will upload it and we can go through it tomorrow?
<iwj> asac: OK.
<mdz> sounds good
<mdz> the sooner the better
<asac> fine ... actually I am quite optimistic that we get patches sorted out
<iwj> asac: Sure but I'm away tomorrow ...
<asac> there is only one major patch we might really get trouble getting upstream approval for
<asac> the thai patch
<iwj> Let's take these details offline.
<asac> iwj: weekend?
<mdz> asac: yes, that's come up with upstream already.  need to connect the person who wrote it with upstream to get it into shape
<mdz> next agenda item: Will the following specs make release? (Scott James Remnant, Colin Watson)
<asac> mdz: fine. Can you CC me, so I know the author?
<mvo> asac: thep wrote it, hes around quite often in irc
<Keybuk> right
<Keybuk> iwj: your spec update didn't include any estimate of whether winmodem-support or automated-testing-deployment might make the release?
<Keybuk> what's the status of those two specs?
<iwj> automated-testing-deployment> Is largely decoupled from the release cycle.  So since it wasn't urgent for feature freeze it got put on hold at Keybuk's request.
<mdz> asac: mvo should have his contact info; I don't have it to hand
<asac> mdz: ok ... noted ... will ping mvo
<Keybuk> *nods* the udev-* stuff was higher priority -- but if you started on that now, would you complete it before the release?
<iwj> winmodem-support> It is now evident that it won't make the release.  I've been chasing after udev breakage the last day or two when I had hoped to be fixing up and promoting sl-modem-daemon.
<mdz> iwj: even so, there's little potential to benefit from it for the release unless it's deployed soon
<iwj> mdz: Indeed.
<iwj> Although one benefit will be for security testing.
<cjwatson> How long would winmodem-support take, out of curiosity?
<tfheen> and we'll be gearing up, not down as we get closer to the release.
<iwj> cjwatson: I spoke to mjg59 and I got the impression it was just a matter of putting together existing stuff in a slightly sane way.
<iwj> I can get automated-testing running here out of cron with a week's work or so if I don't do anything much else that week.
<mdz> I said the same thing about it in November.
<iwj> mdz: Right, but I have the hardware now (since last week).
<Keybuk> ok, otherwise your specs are now in good order; thanks especially for taking on some of the work from me
<iwj> NP
<Keybuk> udev-mdadm didn't take you as long as you feared?
<Keybuk> (or is the spec status in LP wrong?)
<mdz> if that's true, we will get more value out of automated testing than winmodem-support, since it should benefit a larger proportion of users
<iwj> udev-mdadm was more straightforward than I feared but less easy than the spec said :-).
<mdz> but winmodem-support is worth pushing in late if it's not too intrusive for users who don't have the hardware
<iwj> Keybuk: LP> Oh, I probably forgot to update the status.
<Keybuk> good.  the testing spec is the most important one to get done next, as that will be useful in the shortest time scale
<fabbione> iwj: next week i am going to stress test the udev-* on the systems i have home that suck at bringing up disks at a normal speed
<Keybuk> and as mdz just said, we should also get winmodem-support in, even past FF
<tfheen> mdz: I would want it properly regression-tested so we don't end up loading modules which destabilise the system, since loads and loads of laptops have winmodem hardware.
<iwj> mdz, Keybuk: Can I get you two to agree on priorities so know what I want to be working on ? :-)
<mdz> tfheen: afaik, they're already loading the appropriate modules
<Keybuk> iwj: I think we just did agree on priorities :p
<iwj> fabbione: Right.  I think you'll find it's fine.
<mdz> iwj: it sounds like we do
<fabbione> iwj: i am sure it will be fine... i like to be the devil advocate ;)
<tfheen> mdz: not my laptop at least.
<iwj> OK, I'll do the winmodem support first since it's probably smaller.
<Keybuk> *blink*
<mdz> iwj: talk it over with Keybuk out of band
<iwj> mdz: OK
<mdz> moving on to mvo
<Keybuk> mvo: dist-upgrader-fixes
<mvo> dist-upgrader-fixes> -> Half is done, a backport of apt fixes is requested (DPkg::StopOnErrors patch, no changes to existing codepathes). Biggestet MISSING thing is runing the frontend and the backend in two different processes. this is prototyped, but python lacks a mechanism to pass file descriptors over sockets between processes. this is added in update-manager (fdsend module) now, so we can use this for the next release (then we will ha
<mvo> ve https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/dist-upgrader-arch-any too)
<Keybuk> there wasn't anything in your report saying whether it'd miss FF but be ready for the Release, be ready for FF, or miss the Release
<mvo> some bits are ready now
<Keybuk> will the missing bits be ready before the release?  (ideally soon)?
<mvo> the process seperation will miss release unless we backport the fdsend module to edgy
<mdz> I don't think we should make major structural changes to the upgrader at this point
<mvo> and for the better error handling I would like to add a patch to edgy apt
<mvo> agreed
<cjwatson> SRU stuff is later on the agenda
<mdz> mvo: what's the potential benefit of the StopOnErrors backport?
<mvo> mdz: apt will not stop if a dpkg --unpack/configure run fails
<mvo> but keep going as long as possible
<mvo> and report the broken packages
<mvo> it won't change the behaviour by default
<mvo> just when run under the upgrader
<mdz> doesn't sound like a straightforward one to evaluate
<mdz> let's discuss via email with the SRU team
<mvo> fine with me
<mdz> ACTION: mvo to discuss StopOnErrors backport with SRU team
<pitti> still, if things break with the upgrader, that would be bad
<mdz> tkamppeter: printerdriverautodownload?
<cjwatson> that has made significant process since we last talked, according to Till's update
<cjwatson> so I would like to know roughly how much longer it's expected to take, to see if it's worth an FF exception now
<tkamppeter> I have made the first driver packages and put them up on OpenPrinting
<tkamppeter> And I have updated the sites CGI scripts so that the packages are shown, added install instruction, and announced the new service.
<tkamppeter> For making a source .deb which auto-downloads all available packages when building. I have some questions:
<mdz> the spec calls for changes to PrinterDrake, which isn't shipping in this release
<tkamppeter> Is it possible to convert a source RPM into a .deb source (.orig.gz, .diff.gz, dsc)?
<pitti> mdz: these parts aren't crucial at all AFAICS, just nice to have (better integration)
<tfheen> tkamppeter: you can't download anything off the net when you build a package.
<pitti> tkamppeter: not universally; what do you need that for?
<pitti> tfheen: the idea is something like 'debian/rules upstream-update'
<cjwatson> tkamppeter: this should be a proper source package, not one converted from another format, IMO
<mdz> this implementation sounds less and less like the summary of the spec
<tkamppeter> The idea which was brought in for Ubuntu was making Ubuntu .deb packages from the available distribution-independent driver packages in an automated way.
<pitti> tfheen: i. e. at some point you fetch the stuff from openprinting, then update the source package, and run the tests, etc.
<tfheen> pitti: well, that's fine of course.
<mdz> cjwatson,pitti,tkamppeter: how about the three of you review this out of band and come to a decision?
<cjwatson> mdz: it's what's in the wiki page, though, more or less
<pitti> mdz: fine for me
<mdz> ok
<cjwatson> the discussion evolved a fair bit since the LP spec summary was written
<mdz> ACTION: cjwatson/pitti/tkamppeter to review printerdriverautodownload and come to a decision regarding its fate for feisty
<cjwatson> ACTION: cjwatson, pitti, tkamppeter to review printerdriverautodownload
<cjwatson> dup!
<Keybuk> caught it :p
<mdz> Kubuntu Upgrader needs patches backported to kdelibs, kdebase and adept but also the feisty version of python-kde3 backported, which means backporting also python-qt3 and sip4-qt3, is that OK to go into edgy-updates after the usual SRU process? (Jonathan Riddell)
<mdz> ouch
<Riddell> mostly just a warning
<Riddell> we need the fesity python-kde3 for the new embedded konsole
<mdz> my gut feeling just based on the scope of the changes is that we should release this with feisty and not backport it to edgy
<Riddell> and that needs the feisty versions of python-qt3 and sip
<Riddell> mdz: that defeats the point of a dist-upgrader, which is very badly needed
<mdz> Riddell: it doesn't; it just makes it one release later
<Riddell> there's only limited packages that use python-kde3 and -qt, it's possible to test them all for breakage
<mdz> it doesn't meet the criteria for an SRU
<mdz> well, not obviously anyway
<mdz> it depends on just how poorly the upgrade experience is now, I suppose
<mdz> but it's a very large change to weigh against the benefits
<Riddell> judging by dapper->edgy very poor
<sfllaw> Is there some way to statically compile for just that app?
<tfheen> we need to solve this problem for dapper->next LTS too, at some point.
<sfllaw> Then we could limit the breakage.
<pitti> sfllaw: urgh @ security updates then
<tfheen> sfllaw: that would mean shipping a statically compiled python, I think?
<cjwatson> statically compile> include copies of the relevant modules with the upgrader?
<cjwatson> UGLY, but ...
<mdz> Riddell: have you talked with mvo about it?
<mvo> statically compile> we would need autobuilder support for that
<mvo> well, not really, but it would be really good to have that
<cjwatson> I'm still convinced that you already have it
<mvo> we may have arch-any upload support, but I'm pretty sure we do not have auto-builder support
<cjwatson> well, might need a bit of a source package restructuring, but I think the archive-side support is all thre
<cjwatson> there
<Riddell> mdz: yes
<mvo> its not a .dsc file afterall, just a tarball
<cjwatson> a source package can spit out anything as long as it goes in a .changes file :)
<cjwatson> right, the source package would need to be fixeed
<cjwatson> fixed
<mvo> cjwatson: that would be a interessting option, can we talk offline about this?
<cjwatson> sure
<cjwatson> ACTION: cjwatson and mvo to discuss dist-upgrader autobuilding
<mdz> sounds like another conversation for the SRU team
<mdz> (the Kubuntu upgrader situation, that is)
<Riddell> == cjwatson and pitti?
<mdz> ACTION: cjwatson/pitti/Riddell/mvo to discuss Kubuntu upgrade options for edgy->feisty
<pitti> ack
<mdz> A friend of mine just phoned me, he created a Qt GUI implementation for apport; do we want that in Feisty? It'd require us to copy over the apport bits of update-notifier to adept-notifier (shouldn't be hard, there's nothing GTK specific in it) (Martin Pitt)
<pitti> I tested the current bzr head version (under Gnome, though)
<pitti> it principally works
<Riddell> what are the apport bits of update-notifier?
<cjwatson> I would love to make ubiquity more consistent between GNOME and KDE as regards crash reporting
<mdz> I see no reason why we wouldn't want it
<pitti> modulo some bugs in the Qt/Gnome frontend and qt itself
<pitti> but it's mostly cosmetics
<mdz> pitti: is it something you can hand off to Riddell for most of the integration work?
<pitti> Riddell: calling apport-checkreports and displaying a tray icon or calling apport
<pitti> mdz: I'm happy to work with him to get it going
<pitti> the u-n bits for apport are entirely GTK-independent
<pitti> well, almost, the tray icon needs different treatment, I guess
<pitti> but the branch just arrived today, so it's quite on the edge of FF
<pitti> how'bout me uploading apport-qt to the archive today for more widespread testing?
<pitti> (universe for now)
<mdz> it's worth having, but only if it doesn't require much wore work for you
<pitti> Riddell: my principal question is to you, whether you actually want it
<mdz> does it make the difference between having apport in Kubuntu or not?
<Riddell> pitti: sounds fun, my main worry remains how it interacts with the normal KDE crash handler and how annoyed upstream would get if we replaced it
<pitti> mdz: Michael agreed to help with bug fixing in the qt port itself, so it's just the adept-notifier bits
<pitti> Riddell: if kcrash intercepts sigsegvs, apport won't kick in
<Riddell> ok, that's an easy way around
<pitti> Riddell: so it'd only be used for non-KDE programs, as long as you keep krash enabled
<Riddell> mdz: it would yes
<pitti> and that depends on how happy upstream is with the krash reports they get
<Riddell> pitti: there's a couple people who have been doing adept patches during feisty as well as myself so there's people to help with thfat
* Riddell wonders why people assume the KDE crash handler is called krash
<mdz> I can't imagine why
<dholbach> hehe :)
<mdz> ...
<kwwii> while we are on the subject, the apport icons (from the last meeting), a first version is ready and the final icons should be done soon
<fabbione> ROFL
<pitti> kwwii: Troy sent me some, they look really nice!
<Keybuk> Riddell: you realise that it now has to be
<mdz> pitti: ok, are you finished with your agenda item?
<kwwii> pitti: exactly, I am going to touch them up a bit, but they will be done soon
<pitti> mdz: so, the decision seems to be 'yes, we want it'?
<Keybuk> yes please
<pitti> mdz: ok, then I'll put it into the archive today and discuss integration with Riddell
<mdz> pitti: of course we do; it's a question of whether we can get it finished soon enough
<Riddell> action: pitti to upload and riddell to evaluate that it doesn't break with current KDE stuff and find someone to do adept-updater work
<pitti> ACTION: discuss adept-notifier integration of apport (pitti/Riddell)
<pitti> heh, snap again
<mdz> we already covered StopOnError earlier
<mdz> (dholbach) [WWW]  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2007-February/023233.html
<dholbach> I think we all agree, that it would have been nice to get this in earlier, I still wonder if it wouldn't make sense to get xorg 7.2 in still (in terms of maintainability and fixes we'd get from upstream and support for newer devices, etc.)
<mdz> agenda items which consist solely of URLs are deprecated
<pitti> does anyone know whether tepsipakki has the sk1llz for that?
<dholbach> What does the Release team think?
<mdz> dholbach: basically the same answer as for apport-qt
<mdz> we certainly do want it, but we have finite resources and are occupied with other things at the moment
<dholbach> mdz: I don't think we can have xorg7.2 in universe :)
<cjwatson> on the one hand, I'd like to get the driver fixes, but on the other I'm concerned about having nobody dedicated to new bugs coming in
<mdz> is anyone available to review his packages and upload them?
<dholbach> cjwatson: we don't have anybody dedicated to old bugs atm too :-/
<mdz> and who would be responsible for bug reports?
<mdz> I assume this stuff isn't in Debian yet
<cjwatson> we ought to be able to sync a number of the libraries from Debian experimental
<mvo> I guess we could do this as a team effort (review+upload)
<cjwatson> mdz: I think some of this is merges from experimental
<tfheen> I'm not happy with it unless we have a bunch of interested people who works on it, actively.
<cjwatson> but I haven't verified
<seb128> I can review some uploads, I've enough bugs on my list without xorg though
<tfheen> we have a bunch of people who can chip in a bit, but that's not really enough.
<dholbach> cjwatson: he merged a bunch of packages with experimental already
<tfheen> seb128: and you're already stretching more than last cycle now that you're doing ubuntu-archive stuff.
<mdz> if we can get a plausible community effort behind it, we can do it
<mdz> but someone in core-dev needs to be the point person for it
<tfheen> mdz: that'd need to happen fairly quickly though.  If we have a team of interested people and merged packages in a week, it can happen.
<seb128> tfheen: right, I clearly don't intend to spend much efforts on xorg
<mdz> what's needed is to explain the requirements for making this happen for feisty, to the people working on it
<cjwatson> somebody should post to -devel with such an explanation and calling for core-dev assistance
<kylem> mdz, i'm willing to take point if i need to.
<seb128> the question is if we think the 7.2 upload would bring bugs_fixed >  new_bugs_brough
<cjwatson> if that came from one of the core team it would have more impact
<tfheen> mdz: I can do that from a RM POV.
<mdz> get a handle on the scope, estimate a reasonable deadline for completion, form a team which can plausibly respond to bug reports, etc.
<kylem> i'm sure mjg59 will chip in too, he wants to see some of this stuff in feisty.
<Keybuk> 7.2 doesn't include either input-hotplug or monitor-hotplug/randr 1.2; right?
<kylem> Keybuk, correct, that's 7.2.1 ;-)
<tfheen> Keybuk: input-hotplug is easily mergable, but monitor-hotplug is 7.3, AIUI.
<mdz> it surely brings heaps of hardware-related improvements though
<kylem> still doable for feisty thoughh...
<cjwatson> kylem: I don't want you doing much of the actual work, but I'd be happy if you're willing to coordinate
<mvo> I would like to support the effort too
<kylem> randr 1.2 needs xserver 1.2.1 which keithp has said he can have release ready for us...
<cjwatson> some of the work will match up with your kernel bits of course
<dholbach> I'll try to help with forming a team and talk to tepsipakki - should the team present their efforts at the next TB meeting or something?
<kylem> cjwatson, right, i don't want to do the actual work either. ;-P
<mdz> cjwatson: would you write up the requirements for ubuntu-devel?  formulate it so that someone needs to put their name in each of the necessary slots in order for it to be approved
<fabbione> dholbach: there is an X team already
<fabbione> dholbach: let's use that one
<dholbach> fabbione: where?
<cjwatson> it's modular. the team should get whatever the hell they can into the archive in incremental stages that won't break the world
<mdz> ubuntu-x-swat
<fabbione> dholbach: ubuntu-x-swat..
<dholbach> yeah, but who's on that team?
<cjwatson> not wait for a meeting :)
<cjwatson> mdz: yes
<kylem> cjwatson, i'm mostly just concerned about -intel for obvious reasons.
<dholbach> I didn't to intend to invent a new name
<cjwatson> right
<mdz> ACTION: cjwatson to post requirements for X.org 7.2 in feisty to -devel
<fabbione> dholbach: me... and a few others... people don't join it for fun
<mdz> at a minimum, this should require that the packagers and a couple of other folks step up to join the X team and follow up
<ogra> how do we mae sure we dont need to roll back everything if they loose interest half way ?
<ogra> *make
<mdz> and someone on -core-dev to sponsor them
<cjwatson> ogra: 16:47 < cjwatson> it's modular. the team should get whatever the hell they can into the archive in incremental stages that won't break the world
<mdz> and we get a commitment from them
<ogra> cjwatson, but if it does ?
<cjwatson> this should be perfectly doable; our client-side and server-side stuff is already out of sync
<cjwatson> ogra: we only need to roll back a package or two
<ogra> mdz, exactly, thats what i mean
<dholbach> fabbione: we all agreed that we don't have somebody who looks after bugs at the moment... that's why I asked 'where' - I wrote the wiki pages for ubuntu-x-swat so I should know :)
<cjwatson> I have many concerns, but they don't include needing to roll back everything
<fabbione> dholbach: right, i thought you wanted to create another LP team
<ogra> cjwatson, mine neither, but being left with a half done update ...
<mdz> ok, sounds like consensus to me
<dholbach> fabbione: no, not really
<mdz> moving on
<mdz> Keybuk: udev debugging?
<Keybuk> still have to write that
<cjwatson> ogra: half-done isn't actually all that bad in this case. Anyway, #ubuntu-devel
<Keybuk> I'll try and get to it next week for the bug fixing push
<iwj> udev debugging> shoot the author ?
<iwj> Excuse me, I'm just a bit annoyed with it recently :-).
<cjwatson> legal udev debugging
<Keybuk> iwj: could you write up the problems you had with it
<mdz> s/legal/helpful/
<Keybuk> it could be a useful thing for upstream
<seb128> mdz: is that ok if I go now? I've guitar class in a few min
<Keybuk> kay's a nice guy, he accepts helpful (and/or witty) criticism
<mdz> if done with a constructive tone
<iwj> Keybuk: Hmm.  I'll write up a rant and then we can tone it down into something useful.
<Keybuk> send it to me first; since I already have a working relationship with him
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> ACTION iwj to write up summary of experiences debugging udev
<iwj> While we're on udev, is anyone here affected by bug 83878 ?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 83878 in udev "wrong permissions for /dev/null" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/83878
<mdz> seb128: OK, but this meeting is scheduled for 1 hour, you should plan on being able to stay until the end
<iwj> If so talk to me afterwards.
<Keybuk> iwj: everyone is on and off; it tends to show up once in a while with a whole bunch of different causes
<seb128> mdz: ok, will do for next time, thanks
<mdz> sfllaw will e-mail distro-team@ about commercial package support
<Keybuk> it's the most common symptom of "udevtrigger didn't get run"
<iwj> Keybuk: Joy.
<Keybuk> mdz: he's done that
<mdz> this seems to have happened _during_ the meeting
<cjwatson> hah
<sfllaw> Yes.
<cjwatson> Brinkmanship. :-)
<sfllaw> I only noticed after reading the agenda.
<Keybuk> iwj: sometimes caused by the udev init script being run multiple times
<mdz> deliverables were mailed to distro-team after last week's meeting
<cjwatson> doko to mail ubuntu-devel about which Python modules should be in main
<cjwatson> judging from the odd /msg, doko has been investigating this today?
<doko> cjwatson: that was done *before* the meeting
<cjwatson> aha, I didn't notice; I'm behind on -devel
<Keybuk> doko: reference?
<Keybuk> doko: you didn't follow-up to distro-team to say the action was done
<Keybuk> (which is useful if your line manager hasn't caught up on other mailing lists :p)
<doko> Keybuk: hmm, ok
<mdz> cjwatson to chase up the set of core-devs who can help moderate ubuntu-devel and arrange for clear documentation
<cjwatson> FYI, I've edited Simon's late update into the agenda
<doko> Keybuk: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2007-February/023235.html
<mdz> I posted bullet points which should be sufficient for documentation
<cjwatson> moderation> this is still not done, I'm afraid; I gave feature-freeze requirements precedence
<Keybuk> heh, 20 seconds before the meeting doesn't count <g>
<cjwatson> please leave it on my action list for this week
<mdz> ok
<mdz> tfheen: release readiness?
<heno> I've done some moderation and have filed some RT about whitelisting and spam
<tkamppeter> iwj, the /dev/null problem keeps HPLIP's hpssd from starting, bug 83924
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 83924 in hplip "[apport] [feisty]  hpssd crashed with IOError in daemonize()" [Medium,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/83924
<pitti> tkamppeter: -> #ubuntu-devel, please
<tfheen> mdz: I'm a bit behind on looking at the spec status, but when I looked at it on Monday, it looked like about half the specs were good progress or better.
<mdz> tfheen: blocker bugs?
<Keybuk> I should probably have sent tollef the list of specs mdz and I wrote last week
<tfheen> Keybuk: yes, please.
<Keybuk> that has whether they're likely to meet FF, slip but make the release, or miss
<tfheen> mdz: I'm behind on those as well, but I don't have any big problems on my radar.
<mdz> I'm more interested in bugs, honestly
<mdz> we can more easily release without a feature than with a major bug
<tfheen> there's a fair amount of polishing to be done such as NetworkManager needing a bit of love to handle suspend/resume reliably.
<mdz> tfheen: have you received any high-profile issues from sfllaw, bdmurray or others in the past week?
<Keybuk> we should target bugs at the feisty release?  or at a milestone?
<mdz> right, is there a process in place to flag bugs which you should be tracking?
<tfheen> Keybuk: if they're feasible for a milestone, milestone.
<Keybuk> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/feisty/+bugs
<Keybuk> (has three 3 bugs)
<Keybuk> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-7.04
<tfheen> mdz: not a formal one, no.  I'll get in touch with QA about it.
<Keybuk> (has a whole bunch of bugs)
<mdz> ACTION: tfheen to document bug escalation to release management
<tfheen> so far it has been "target stuff to a release/milestone"
<mdz> tfheen: plenty of room for confusion there, especially since we have milestones intended to work around the former lack of release targeting
<mdz> ok, that's the end of the agenda
<mdz> any other business?
<tfheen> I'd just like to remind everybody that herd-4 is due next week
<tfheen> and that we're now in FF+UVF, so please get in touch if you have new upstream versions you want in.
<pitti> oh, already? *urgh*
<tfheen> pitti: traditionally, it's been the start of the distro meeting, you've I've let it slip by a whole hour! :-)
<cjwatson> I have migration-assistant still to land
<BenC> what if I have a totally new package?
<Keybuk> I still have both my specs to land
<cjwatson> it's in main, but the ubiquity merge needs to be done
<pitti> tfheen: I meant herd-4, not UVF
<cjwatson> in the middle of that :)
<tfheen> pitti: oh, ok.
<BenC> new kernel needs dtc (device-tree compiler) for ppc
<tfheen> I'm fine with people sneaking stuff in under the wire for today.
<tfheen> BenC: ugh.  Get it packaged ASAP.
<sfllaw> tfheen: I have a version of ttf-dejavu that I'm looking at building.
<tfheen> BenC: and get the MIR done ASAP.
<sfllaw> To solve internationalization issues.
<BenC> tfheen: will do
<BenC> I might just sneak it into the kernel build, since that's the only place that needs it
<tfheen> BenC: please don't, I'd rather have to NEW it.
<BenC> then it'd only take up src space
<BenC> tfheen: let's talk in -devel
<mdz> ok, anything else, please follow up by mail/IRC
<mdz> adjourned, thanks all
<fabbione> thanks guys
<fabbione> cya monday
* fabbione packs and flies back home
<amendt> Great Meeting!
* asac is off
<Keybuk> tfheen: ok, spec list sent to you
<dholbach> thanks
<kwwii> bye all, thanks
<pitti> thanks everyone
<tfheen> Keybuk: cheers.
<iwj> Thanks everyone.  This one was tough.  Let's see if we can make the next one shorter :-).
<pkl_> bye
<ogra> wow, nice and fast
<mvo> thanks
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 10 Feb 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Canada | 11 Feb 22:00 UTC: LoCo Teams | 12 Feb 20:00 UTC: Screencast Team | 13 Feb 16:00 UTC: Forum Council | 13 Feb 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 14 Feb 10:00 UTC: MOTU
<Commander-Crowe> @time los_angeles
<Ubugtu> Current time in America/Los_Angeles: February 08 2007, 13:36:17 - Next meeting: Ubuntu Canada in 1 day
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-02-10
<sid> @schedule New_York
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/New_York: 10 Feb 16:00: Ubuntu Canada | 11 Feb 17:00: LoCo Teams | 12 Feb 15:00: Screencast Team | 13 Feb 07:00: Community Council | 13 Feb 11:00: Forum Council | 13 Feb 15:00: Technical Board
<lfittl> @schedule vienna
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Vienna: 10 Feb 22:00: Ubuntu Canada | 11 Feb 23:00: LoCo Teams | 12 Feb 21:00: Screencast Team | 13 Feb 13:00: Community Council | 13 Feb 17:00: Forum Council | 13 Feb 21:00: Technical Board
<P235> hi
<lophyte> hey folks
<lophyte> we'll be starting in about 20 minutes I assume :)
<P235> am I here at the right time?
<P235> ah, okay
<P235> what is the meeting for?
<lophyte> pending me washing the kitchen floor and Burgundavia showing up
<lophyte> just general discussion, mostly
<lophyte> I'll post the agenda on the wiki, one sec
<P235> sounds good.  I'm new so any guidance is welcome.
<Skapi_> hallos! I'm new as well
<lophyte> for the most part, we're going to be talking about ubuntu.ca, as well as discussing the creation of new local subgroups
<stgraber> @schedule Zurich
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Zurich: 10 Feb 22:00: Ubuntu Canada | 11 Feb 23:00: LoCo Teams | 12 Feb 21:00: Screencast Team | 13 Feb 13:00: Community Council | 13 Feb 17:00: Forum Council | 13 Feb 21:00: Technical Board
<P235> okay
<P235> P235
<P235> does anyone have any useful online linux learning resources?  I'm always looking to expand my bookmarks.
<lophyte> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CanadianTeam/Meetings
<lophyte> today's agenda
<lophyte> note that the agenda is open
<lophyte> so if you have things you'd like to say, questions you'd like to ask, etc. they can be added
<P235> I see
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Ubuntu Canada | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 11 Feb 22:00 UTC: LoCo Teams | 12 Feb 20:00 UTC: Screencast Team | 13 Feb 12:00 UTC: Community Council | 13 Feb 16:00 UTC: Forum Council | 13 Feb 20:00 UTC: Technical Board
<P235> darn...looks like I'm going to miss out on the meeting
<lophyte> why?
<P235> i have to run an unexpected errand.
<lophyte> ah.. well, notes will be posted on the wiki and on the mailing list, and logs can be found at the URL above
<P235> sounds good.  Good to meet you lophyte
<P235> How often does the group have meetings?
<lophyte> P235: we're gonna try to make them monthly
<P235> Aw...so much for my good timing.  I'll sign up for the mailing list then.  Have a good day everyone.
<lophyte> you too :)
<lophyte> who's here for the ubuntu canada meeting?
<Skapi_> I am :)
<lophyte> hehe, only you? :P
* Skapi_ looks around slightly frantically ;)
<futz48> the other 86 people are here by accident ;-)
<lophyte> anyone else?
* lophyte pokes and prods everyone
<futz48> wow! pretty interesting meeting...
<lophyte> indeed
<futz48> don't all talk at once
<despot32> yeah that could be hard to follow
<lophyte> I'm waiting for more people to show up before beginning
<futz48> k
<lophyte> most importantly the ubuntu canada leader
<futz48> I'm new to this group thing - what is the purpose of local groups?
<despot32> to group locally
<futz48> or whatever they're called
<lophyte> local community teams more or less serve the purpose of local advocacy and support
<futz48> clubs, like?
<futz48> oh, ok
<lophyte> and in most countries they also work on localization/translations
<lophyte> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeams for more info :)
<despot32> i do not think i can join. i am not sufficiently loco :(
<lophyte> lol
<futz48> so we should, like, translate, eh? ya hoser :-D
<lophyte> haha
<lophyte> "You reallywant to close Firefox, eh?"
<lophyte> that'd be pretty funny
<futz48> hehehe
<futz48> "This might take a while. Go get a beer."
<despot32> foreach $line ($manpages) { $manpages-ca .= ", eh?"; }
<lophyte> lmao
<lophyte> my CPU load graph looks like a sine wave
<despot32> i don't look at my cpu load graph. that would use too much cpu
<lophyte> lol
<lophyte> okay, well I suppose we should start then
<lophyte> doesn't look like anyone else is going to show up
<lophyte> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CanadianTeam/Meetings
<lophyte> that's our agenda
<lophyte> perhaps we should start by introducing ourselves.. all 4 of us
<darkenergy> uh, I'm seeing 87 members ...
<lophyte> okay, perhaps 5..
<lophyte> most people in here are idling and aren't here for our meeting
<lophyte> anywho
<lophyte> I'm Dave, it looks like I'll be heading up the meeting.. I'm currently leading the Toronto subgroup of Ubuntu Canada
<lophyte> hey jamon
<lophyte> welcome
<jamonation> hi
<jamonation> just starting?
<lophyte> yup
<Skapi_> I'm Skapi, hailing from Richmond, BC
<lophyte> Corey hasn't shown up
<futz48> futz from Ladner, BC
<lophyte> welcome guys :)
* Skapi_ waves
<despot32> alex, waterloo ontario
<darkenergy> I'm Blaine.   Occasionally join in the Toronto meetings...
<lophyte> ahh.. hey Blaine :)
<darkenergy> :D
<jamonation> jamon, usu. found working in cahoots with lophyte
<lophyte> hehe
<lophyte> welcome  everyone
<jamonation> there a link to the agenda for this meeting on the wiki?
<lophyte> yup
<lophyte> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CanadianTeam/Meetings
<jamonation> ty
<lophyte> before we begin, does anyone have any questions about the meeting or the team?
<despot32> i do. where is the coffee
<lophyte> haha
<lophyte> I bet in your kitchen
<futz48> in the grinder hopper
<despot32> yeah it is, but it's like 2 days old. screw that
<lophyte> lol
<darkenergy> I've got tea.
<lophyte> no questions from anyone?
<despot32> no legitimate questions
<darkenergy> onward with the question about the Cdn site?
<futz48> yer gonna have to lead on
<lophyte> sounds good
<lophyte> Ubuntu Canada was recently approved by the Ubuntu Community Council as an *official* local community team
<lophyte> as such, this gives us access to a few benefits
<lophyte> one being that we get a shipment of 500 CDs for every release
<lophyte> another being that we have access to Canonical web hosting
<jamonation> shell access?
<lophyte> I'm not sure what sort of access we have to it
<lophyte> I just know that we can host our site on Canonical's servers
<despot32> how local exactly can communities get?
<despot32> cause i mean, Canada's quite the community
<darkenergy> lol
<despot32> can we do Ubuntu Siberia next?
<lophyte> its suggested that you have a LoCo for a country, and then subgroups of it
<lophyte> so, there is an ubuntu-us with subgroups (such as ubuntu-chicago) of it
<darkenergy> does the site need to be moved?   is the current hosting a problem?
<despot32> oh, okay. that makes sense.
<lophyte> its currently hosted on an old box in Burgundavia's basement
<jamonation> makes distributing 500cds difficult...
<darkenergy> ie. does it have limited bandwidth, transfer caps etc
<darkenergy> ah
<lophyte> Burgundavia being the leader of ubuntu canada ;)
<lophyte> so it'd be preferable to move it to Canonical's servers
<jamonation> so there is a question as to moving it? why wouldn't we?
<jamonation> faster, more reliable
<darkenergy> righto
<lophyte> no, that's not the question.. we are moving it
<jamonation> good
<lophyte> the question thats put forth to the Canadian community.. what would you like to see
<ReK_`laptop`> hello all, sorry im late
<lophyte> what would you like to see on ubuntu.ca/ubuntu-ca.org*
<jamonation> the CMS is the question then
<darkenergy> oh, lets figure out what before how
<lophyte> yup.. Brian Burger, the current webmaster, wants to put a CMS on it so that community members can volunteer as editors and news posters
<jamonation> well, looks like ubuntu australia is using drupal
<lophyte> also suggested was a "Planet Ubuntu Canada," which is basically a news aggregator which pulls content from Canadian members' blogs
<jamonation> waht are other LoCo teams using? planet aggregation?
<despot32> i like that idea.
<darkenergy> and are their going to be subsections for locals groups?
<lophyte> darkenergy: most likely... Brian mentioned having a ubuntu.ca/toronto for example
<lophyte> or toronto.ubuntu.ca depending on what kind of access we get to DNS
<jamonation> would that mean changes to mailman or is that hosted elsewhere?
<despot32> if you can get wildcard dns enabled you could just use a rewrite to map that
<lophyte> jamonation: mailman is hosted by Canonical already
<lophyte> lists.ubuntu.com
<jamonation> it would be nice to have an archive of emails on the site, with comments enabled
<darkenergy> probably just as easy to organize the subgroups in the CMS
<jamonation> sorta like gmane, but integrated into whatever other CMS we use
<lophyte> ReK_`laptop`: btw, welcome... our agenda is here: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CanadianTeam/Meetings
<ReK_`laptop`> thanks
<lophyte> jamonation: good idea
<jamonation> are the 2 or 3 people that volunteered to help with the site present?
<lophyte> kind of like a forum-style interface to the mailing list
<jamonation> yeah
<lophyte> I don't think so
<ReK_`laptop`> im one of them
<jamonation> i think drupal has a mailman module too ;)
<lophyte> ah
* jamonation is a fanboi
<lophyte> I know that when we launched ubuntutoronto.org on Drupal, Corey had issues with it.. we'll have to talk to him
<ReK_> but i cant start for another week or so, deadlines creeping up :(
<darkenergy> what does Cory  like?
<jamonation> anything python?
<lophyte> I'm not sure
<jamonation> well, whatever we choose, I can help with the theming
<lophyte> I'll be posting notes from the meeting on the wiki and the mailing list, so Corey can respond to these questions
<lophyte> ReK_: no worries.. we still need to move it over to Canonical hosting first anyhow
<ReK_> what about phpbb? it has built-in groups, easily moddable and there are already cms mods out for it
<despot32> i liked phpbb when i used it on one of my sites
<lophyte> the issue I see with phpbb is that it wouldn't integrate with the mailing list
<ReK_> how do we want it to intergrate? i might be able to work on that
<darkenergy> and its got a history of security probs
<lophyte> the majority of our discussion traffic is on the mailing list.. if we wanted to create a forum, it would ideally work with the list
<jamonation> http://drupal.org/project/listhandler
<lophyte> jamonation: checking..
<lophyte> Drupal fanboy ;)
<jamonation> indeed
<lophyte> jamonation: looks like what we need..
<darkenergy> so, I'm not personally convinced that drupal is the greatest choice if you want to get non-technical editors involved
<jamonation> why not?
<lophyte> drupal's content posting is quite intuitive
<darkenergy> ok.   /runs for exit
<jamonation> there is also a wysiwyg javascript editor
<jamonation> no no, it's a valid concern
<lophyte> darkenergy: ubuntutoronto.org runs on Drupal, and Kim has posted on it many times
<darkenergy> LOL
<lophyte> its almost his personal blog ;)
<ReK_> about mailing list on phpbb: http://www.mail2forum.com
<jamonation> how many of us have a personal blog or site?
<lophyte> ReK_: checking...
<ReK_> already done, with 2 way comunication between the list and the forum
<lophyte> I know as a fact that people have requested we set up a forum
<jamonation> if most of us have a site already, aggregating into a planet would be best no?
<ReK_> yeah
<lophyte> jamonation: yup.. but we also want ubuntu canada specific content as well, not just aggregated blogs
<jamonation> right, so here again, drupal, bear with me:
<jamonation> forum, integrated and installed in drupal by default
<ReK_> we could get the planet to only read blog posts with the ubunu-ca tag?
<ReK_> or ubuntu* might be better
<darkenergy> if you're using venus its got good filters
<jamonation> aggregation, module is included in core, allows the admin to choose whatever feed, in multiple formats
<jamonation> content posting, done, mailing list integration, doable
<lophyte> well, before we start arguing what CMS is going to be used, let's focus on what features we want
<jamonation> I'll make a list on the wiki page?
<ReK_> so far im seeing news post, mailing list, basic forums and planet-style post aggregation
<ReK_> although the latter could be seperated out of the cms easily
<jamonation> same goes for the forum
<jamonation> though a single sign on auth mechanism is preferable
<jamonation> what about wiki? just use the main ubuntu wiki?
<ReK_> if we can use the forum to make news posts by using user groups/hidden forums, it would be extremely simplistic for editors
<lophyte> yup...
<jamonation> hey one sec. lets take a step back...
<lophyte> any and all wiki needs are met by the existing wiki
<jamonation> what are we trying to do with the site? we have it, but why? what is it's purpose?
<jamonation> if we start there, the CMS and feature will follow
<lophyte> a community portal, I would say
<ReK_> news, a place to gather and talk
<ReK_> what he said, basically :P
<lophyte> it would serve the news function it currently serves
<jamonation> ok, so a portal to events, thoughts, howtos, mailing list?
<lophyte> yup
<jamonation> right
<ReK_> I could see other features n the future, like a downloads section, media gallery
<lophyte> a photo gallery was also suggested
<jamonation> photos/videos/podcasts?
<lophyte> videos could be hosted on youtube or ubuntuvideo.com and linked to from ubuntu.ca
<despot32> yeah
<despot32> this sounds quite complicated
<lophyte> how so?
<ReK_> if were going for a gallery, id suggest this: http://gallery.menalto.com/
<ReK_> we use it for the dystopia pr gallery
<despot32> i mean, will people have use for all these features? sounds like a lot
<darkenergy> I think you probably want to find out what Canonical will supply before selecting packages
<lophyte> agreed
<darkenergy> ditto
<jamonation> i think they'll do whatever runs on the lamp stack
<lophyte> despot32: news and forums isn't complicated
<despot32> no, not at all
<lophyte> other features can be added later, if needed
<despot32> but videos?
<jamonation> there's a gallery plugin for drupal :)
<ReK_> and everything else is gravy that you dopnt have to go to if you dont want
<despot32> i mean are we gonna make ubuntu films?
<darkenergy> yeah, but you need community first.   if you supply empty space it won't be all that inviting
<lophyte> despot32: Ubuntu Toronto is planning to :)
<lophyte> but
<ReK_> well, see, this is why i said i could see these features later
<lophyte> let's get back to the point...
<lophyte> we've got:
<lophyte> 1) news
<lophyte> 2) mailing list-integated forums
<lophyte> 3) news aggregator
<lophyte> I think this is a good place to start
<despot32> those 3 sound good
<jamonation> yeah
<despot32> brb...
<lophyte> anything further can be added later, if needed
<jamonation> apart from mailing list, I think pretty much any CMS will suffice
<lophyte> I agree
<lophyte> I'd suggest Drupal as well
<lophyte> we'll see  what Brian and Corey think
<ReK_> im still partial to phpbb, it can do everything but news aggregation and is more user-friendly for the editors
<jamonation> anyone else?
<jamonation> ReK_: but for admin it is a royal PITA
<ReK_> no
<lophyte> phpbb isn't a CMS though...
<ReK_> it can be modded into one
<lophyte> that creates work
<jamonation> why not go with CMS to begin with then?
<lophyte> someone has to mod it
<ReK_> i will, i have before
<lophyte> rather than modding something that isn't a CMS.. why not go with a CMS to start
<darkenergy> agree
<jamonation> anyone used typo3 or other enterprise CMSes?
<jamonation> plone?
<lophyte> whether its Drupal or not isn't a concern at the moment
<darkenergy> I used typo2.   it was ok but you have to be happy with ruby hacking
<darkenergy> plone, sucks from what I know
<jamonation> hmm, wait a sec., forums can go on http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=183
<jamonation> which is the LoCo team portion of the forums
<darkenergy> nice
<lophyte> it could, but is it a good idea to duplicate discussions?
<jamonation> it would do ubuntu more good to have them there too
<darkenergy> integrated search if its colo'd
<jamonation> it also has integrated rss, so we could aggregate that onto ubuntu.ca
<lophyte> I wonder if there's a way to integrate ubunuforums with the mailing lists
<jamonation> and to have all locos centralized would boost their profile to new users, since forums are usu. their first stop
<darkenergy> and less admin too
<jamonation> there are plugins for posting to mailing lists form a cms
<jamonation> even wordpress has one for mailman
<lophyte> indeed.. but I mean ubuntuforums+mailman
<jamonation> ubuntuforums->ubuntu.ca CMS->mailman
<jamonation> through rss
<lophyte> ah, perhaps
<lophyte> not sure if it would work the other way though
<ReK_> that would be somewhat of a hackjob, we'd have to hide the 'news posts' coming from the forums
<ReK_> and it wouldnt be 2wayu
<lophyte> I was hoping that we could set it up so that the forums and the mailing lists would essentially be one in the same
<lophyte> but I don't think its a huge issue to have it separate
<ReK_> the way I saw was one sub forum would be the mailing list, fully 2 way. the other forums wouldnt, however, otherwise the list wouldnt know where to put new threads
<jamonation> well, we know what we want, so lets put it on the wiki and more on to the next item on the agenda
<despot32> ok back, sorry. headache.
<jamonation> wait for Corey and Brian and then charge ahead
<lophyte> good call
<lophyte> the next item is regarding Ubuntu Canada subgroups
<lophyte> currently, as far as I know, the only one that exists is in Toronto
<lophyte> there's been talk of people wanting to start one in New Brunswick and Winnipeg, but I've heard nothing about them so far
<ReK_> vancouver too
<lophyte> how far is Victoria from Vancouver?
<darkenergy> a boat ride
<ReK_> a ferry ride
<despot32> victoria's on an island
<lophyte> ah
<lophyte> yeah i knew it was on the island
<jamonation> they might as well be 2 distinct groups
<ReK_> say, 2-3 hours
<lophyte> for the most part, I'd like to encourage everyone to try and start a subgroup in their area..
<lophyte> its incredibly rewarding to meet with other Ubuntu users and do advocacy projects together
<lophyte> it doesn't take too much time to start one.. choose a location, a date, and a time, and post it everywhere you can think of
<ReK_> btw: ubuntuforums.com uses vbulletin, and i can find no mailing list plugin for it, so we would have to do it through rss
<lophyte> noted
<jamonation> failing that, or lacking critical mass, how about integrating with a local LUG?
<Fujitsu> ReK_: ubuntuforums used to have a mail gateway set up to a number of Ubuntu lists.
<lophyte> that works as well
<ReK_> did they change forum software recently?
<lophyte> if you feel you don't have the time or energy to start up a local subgroup, talk with your local LUG to set up an Ubuntu special interest group
<Fujitsu> No.
<lophyte> is anyone here interested in starting a local subgroup in their city or town?
<ReK_> im interested in joining one in vancouver, and id help out, but i dont think i can take the full load until summer at least :(
<jamonation> do you go to vanlug meets?
<ReK_> im heading to the next one, havent gone before though
<jamonation> they'll likely be pretty technical
<ReK_> that fine
<jamonation> but you could start by posting on upcoming.org and various places that you'd like to meet other ubuntu users at the meeting?
<lophyte> craigslist works too
<jamonation> yeah
<ReK_> hmm, true
<lophyte> or even on the ubuntu-ca mailing list
<lophyte> just a post that says "would anyone like to meet?"
<jamonation> as a start at least, maybe someone there would help out
<despot32> at the next KWLUG someone's going to be giving a presentation on using drupal. i might attend, if only to be a smartass. lol
<lophyte> lol
<lophyte> despot32: you should start an ubuntu-kw ;)
<despot32> where would i get members?
<lophyte> uh
<lophyte> U of W?
<jamonation> another good spot for starting a sub group would be local college and university campuses
<despot32> it's very rarely that i run into someone who uses linux let alone ubuntu
<ReK_> Fujitsu: "There was once an add-on at vBulletin.org but I believe it was abandoned."
<lophyte> despot32: I bet if you posted on the mailing list, you'd find some folks
<Fujitsu> ReK_: Ah, terrific.
<despot32> Microsoft's hands are heavily in the CS programs so they're all very Windows-centric
<despot32> what mailing list? lol
<lophyte> ubuntu-ca@lists.ubuntu.com
<despot32> ah
<jamonation> not engineering and physics dept's
<lophyte> http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-ca
<despot32> most people i talk to infer that since i use linux i must be homosexual
<jamonation> plus most campus SACs would give free meeting space
<darkenergy> jeez
<lophyte> despot32: perhaps post on the KWLUG mailing list that you'd like to start an Ubuntu group? that might work as well.
<despot32> that might
<despot32> i think i will go to a kwlug meeting first though and see what the community is like
<jamonation> anyone else want to start a local chapter?
<despot32> oh hey, your friend Evan is doing the demo.
<lophyte> LOL
<lophyte> really?
<jamonation> roadtrip!
<despot32> yes
<lophyte> jamonation: let's do a roadtrip to KW ;)
<jamonation> yeah, exactly
<lophyte> though I invited Evan to the next toronto meeting
<jamonation> that's inter-SIG awareness for you
<lophyte> despot32: you might find that the KWLUG is extremely techincal.. TLUG is like that
<lophyte> technical, rather
<lophyte> I think that's it for today
<despot32> the latest legit post on their online forums was almost 4 months ago
<lophyte> hah
<lophyte> perhaps the mailing list is more active
<lophyte> anyway.. let's wrap it up
<lophyte> anyone have any questions or comments?
<darkenergy> Dave, are you going to talk to Corey and Brian about CmS and what is available from Canonical?
<darkenergy> and how does that get moved forward?
<lophyte> yup, I will
<despot32> if they will give you php and mysql databases, you should be good to go
<lophyte> I'll post the meeting notes to the mailing list, and I'm sure a discussion about it will continue from there
<jamonation> don't forget to put them on the wiki too
<lophyte> that too
<darkenergy> k
<lophyte> we're going to make these meetings monthly
<lophyte> so we should be meeting again in a months time :)
<jamonation> put it on the fridge then
<ReK_> heh, theres another feature for the site: a google calander
<lophyte> the meetings? they are
<jamonation> oh good
<lophyte> well thats it for today then.. if anyone would like to stick around and discuss, you're welcome to hop into #ubuntu-ca
* jamonation waves
<jamonation> later then
<despot32> im out biatchs
<lophyte> thanks to everyone who showed up
<lophyte> and have a good da
<lophyte> +y
<darkenergy> ciao
<lophyte> see ya :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-02-11
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 11 Feb 22:00 UTC: LoCo Teams | 12 Feb 20:00 UTC: Screencast Team | 13 Feb 12:00 UTC: Community Council | 13 Feb 16:00 UTC: Forum Council | 13 Feb 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 14 Feb 10:00 UTC: MOTU
<boy_d> hi...., im new. im boy_d.
<Klaidas> @schedule Vilnius
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Vilnius: 12 Feb 00:00: LoCo Teams | 12 Feb 22:00: Screencast Team | 13 Feb 14:00: Community Council | 13 Feb 18:00: Forum Council | 13 Feb 22:00: Technical Board | 14 Feb 12:00: MOTU
<freeflying_> @schedule shanghai
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Asia/Shanghai: 12 Feb 06:00: LoCo Teams | 13 Feb 04:00: Screencast Team | 13 Feb 20:00: Community Council | 14 Feb 00:00: Forum Council | 14 Feb 04:00: Technical Board | 14 Feb 18:00: MOTU
<emonkey> @schedule zurich
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Zurich: 11 Feb 23:00: LoCo Teams | 12 Feb 21:00: Screencast Team | 13 Feb 13:00: Community Council | 13 Feb 17:00: Forum Council | 13 Feb 21:00: Technical Board | 14 Feb 11:00: MOTU
<pochu> @schedule cet
<Ubugtu> Schedule for CET: 11 Feb 23:00: LoCo Teams | 12 Feb 21:00: Screencast Team | 13 Feb 13:00: Community Council | 13 Feb 17:00: Forum Council | 13 Feb 21:00: Technical Board | 14 Feb 11:00: MOTU
<nixternal> @schedule chicago
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 11 Feb 16:00: LoCo Teams | 12 Feb 14:00: Screencast Team | 13 Feb 06:00: Community Council | 13 Feb 10:00: Forum Council | 13 Feb 14:00: Technical Board | 14 Feb 04:00: MOTU
<Rinchen> ====> Reminder:  LoCo Meeting in 30 minutes:   https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamMeeting
<juliux> @schedule berlin
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 11 Feb 23:00: LoCo Teams | 12 Feb 21:00: Screencast Team | 13 Feb 13:00: Community Council | 13 Feb 17:00: Forum Council | 13 Feb 21:00: Technical Board | 14 Feb 11:00: MOTU
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: LoCo Teams | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 12 Feb 20:00 UTC: Screencast Team | 13 Feb 12:00 UTC: Community Council | 13 Feb 16:00 UTC: Forum Council | 13 Feb 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 14 Feb 10:00 UTC: MOTU
<iSeriesTech> can I stick around and watch the meeting?
<Rinchen> iSeriesTech, you can stick around and watch any meeting.
<Seveas> Rinchen, you scared him
<Rinchen> ping elkbuntu. ping nixternal.
<Rinchen> Seveas, hehe, yeah I must have. :-)
<pochu> hehe
<Rinchen> He's from my LoCo so he actually knows me. :-)
<nixternal> yo yo
<FunnyLookinHat> hey cutie
<FunnyLookinHat> >_<
<Rinchen> Hiya Nix...
<ajmitch> hi nixternal
<nixternal> whoa, I have never been called cutie before :)
<elkbuntu> Rinchen, pong
<nixternal> hiya ajmitch
<Rinchen> Hiya elkbuntu
<Rinchen> nixternal, elkbuntu, which one of you wants to run the meeting? ;-)
* nixternal points at elkbuntu -:>
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> doesn't matter to me
* FunnyLookinHat notes that Joey seems to always delegate running meetings as of late.
<FunnyLookinHat> *Rinchen
<elkbuntu> heh, ok
<JoeyStanford> FunnyLookinHat, only where you are concerned. Good Growth experience :-)
<ajmitch> FunnyLookinHat: the ability to delegate is an important quality of a manager
<FunnyLookinHat> ajmitch, agreed.  I'm just picking on JoeyStanford   ; )
<JoeyStanford> ah good, iSeriesSysAdm has rejoined
<iSeriesSysAdm> now we can start
<JoeyStanford> lol
<elkbuntu> ok... 2 minutes still by my clock
<nixternal> haha
<iSeriesSysAdm> lol
<nixternal> 2 minutes is good
<iSeriesSysAdm> sure
* nixternal is trying to get Virtualbox running
<nixternal> VMware on Feisty is just god aweful
<iSeriesSysAdm> what is that
<JoeyStanford> elkbuntu, nixternal one or both of you please log even though we have a least one bot :-)
* FunnyLookinHat tried to get Steam games to work through wine last night but gave up when it didn't immdiately work, hah.
<juliux> nixternal, good luck, i tryied today on edgy
<elkbuntu> JoeyStanford, i always log
<nixternal> I am always logging
<pochu> hey guys, is this channel logged?
* elkbuntu ^5's nixternal
<nixternal> juliux: I found a fix for the install crash in the documentation
<JoeyStanford> excellent, me too. Mostly so I can tease FunnyLookinHat
<pochu> ubuntulog :)
<juliux> !log
<nixternal> but they say there is also documentation for building the kernel modules, I just can't find them
<FunnyLookinHat> JoeyStanford, don't make me /kick you from #ubuntu-colorado
<JoeyStanford>  ================= > Meeting Start:  LoCo Team Meeting     https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamMeeting  <================================
<JoeyStanford> I guess I'll start it off :-)
<elkbuntu> heh
<iSeriesSysAdm> ok
<nixternal> heh
<JoeyStanford> Welcome everyone for the LoCo Team meeting.  The Short agenda is located at  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamMeeting
<elkbuntu> yep
* nixternal notes the agenda has been answered except for item #2
<pochu> hehe
<elkbuntu> first item on the agenda was from yann: The dns are still handled by smurf's private server. Is there any room for improvement there?
<JoeyStanford> nixternal, elkbuntu, and myself set this meeting up so all blame goes to us. We thank those of you who are here.  We understand that the time may not be the best for everyone.
<JoeyStanford> We plan on having the next meeting at a better time. We'll talk about that towards then end of this meeting.
<nixternal> when it comes to that stuff, I have always worked with newz2000. Now I don't know if that is because I am within driving distance of him, or if he does that for everybody
<elkbuntu> well, smurf has replied: DNS is now handled by the ubuntu-eu master server. Dynamic updates are possible; ask me for your domain's secret code.
<nixternal> that stuff being "DNS, websites, and what not"
<smurf> some locos already have. No complaints yet. ;-)
<nixternal> ahh, hiya smurf!
<nixternal> the busiest man in Hollywood :)
<JoeyStanford> and Germany it appears. :-)
<smurf> I've written a small Perl tool that makes the DNS updates a little more palatable than the under-documented "nsupdate" tool. ...
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> ahh, good ol' nsupdate
<JoeyStanford> Is Yann here by chance? I don't see him on the user list.
<elkbuntu> is there anything regarding dns and/or websites that anyone wants to bring up now?
<smurf> JoeyStanford: I've pinged him on #u-locoteams
<JoeyStanford> smurf, thanks.
<JoeyStanford> elkbuntu, yes I'd like to raise a related item
<JoeyStanford> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCreatingWebsite
<JoeyStanford> needs to be written
<FunnyLookinHat> I would like to discuss that as well.
<elkbuntu> who would volunteer to assist smurf in the writing of that wikipage?
* JoeyStanford laughs. elkbuntu doesn't mess around.
<elkbuntu> smurf, i'd like you to contribute to it, so the 'howto' steps are actually accurate ;)
<boredandblogging> i could help, jsvh and I are working on starting up the Georgia LoCo
<FunnyLookinHat> Should we first establish the guidelines that will be on that page so that we know what it will actually entail?  Stuff other than simply making the wiki page, etc?
<elkbuntu> FunnyLookinHat, sure. suggestions?
<nixternal> hey ya'll down there in Georia, is ya'll ready for the Daytona 500? :)
<smurf> elkbuntu: umm, see LoCoHosting ?
<JoeyStanford> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoHosting
<boredandblogging> daytona is like a school holiday for us
<nixternal> haha
<elkbuntu> smurf, that contains everything?
<iSeriesSysAdm> easy on the Gerogia comments I grew up in Savannah and lived in Woodstock for  while;
<smurf> anyway I've never set up a community webpage, so I'd like to defer that to people who actually speak from experience.
* nixternal lived in Snellville while working at HP
<iSeriesSysAdm> cool
<nixternal> community webpage? Like what we are doing with Drupal and such?
<elkbuntu> oi.. keep on topic :
<iSeriesSysAdm> I miss home
<iSeriesSysAdm> ok
<FunnyLookinHat> elkbuntu, well, there is a strong push from a few members of the Colorado team right now to move completely away from the wiki...  I had understood that a certain standard was to use the wiki as a main basis for all loco information
<smurf> elkbuntu: LoCoHosting has the technical details on who to talk to if you want hosting. The point of LoCoCreatingWebsite should be content and structure of what you need to set up after you have hosting.
<JoeyStanford> It appears to me that the hosting page has enough information on how to get a hosted page. So then, might I suggest the Creating Website page be for ideas on how to represent your LoCo?
* smurf notes that empty webpages are no fun
<alefteris> I think the wiki pagw should contain link to resourses about setting up moin and getting themes for moin, forums and drupal..
<nixternal> I agree with alefteris on that
<nixternal> I think Drupal is covered, as well as setting up a Planet
<nixternal> for Wiki, I think everything should remain on w.u.c/teamname/subdirs
<nixternal> it is already there, so one less step for maintenance really
<elkbuntu> right. so the CreatingWebsite page should be a portal to all the various aspects, such as those nixternal covered, as well as the hosting page smurf pointed out
<JoeyStanford> +1
<alefteris> nixternal, where is drupal covered?
<smurf> +1
<elkbuntu> any other votes?
<nixternal> I thought it was somewhere on there alefteris, I might actually be wrong as I don't see anything on it
<alefteris> +1
<JoeyStanford> alefteris, there are a few drupal wiki entries but nothing that ties it together
<nixternal> +1 if I can vote
<Vorian> +1
<FunnyLookinHat> +1
<pochu> About that of Drupal... I think Ubuntu is changing to Joomla, so we also should put info of Joomla, and any theme...
<pochu> oh, and +1 :)
<nixternal> alefteris: I may have been thinking about the mailing-list, there are plenty of Drupal communications on there about the themes and what not
<alefteris> talk to newz2000 a dew days ago, and told me that he is using druapal 4.7
<elkbuntu> ok, who volunteers to track down all the information, document the lack of specific howtos, and add them to the LoCoCreatingWebsites wiki?
* nixternal would love to, but he has to deal with string freezes less than a month away on 3 projects
<Mirv> hmm, should the LoCoHosting's "Hosted Teams" be updated by someone who has an official list of all the Canonical hosted sites?
<nixternal> I am looking at that as well Mirv, since when is Ubuntu-art a LoCo team?
<elkbuntu> Mirv, yes, very likely.
<elkbuntu> nixternal, or sfd
<smurf> nixternal: it's not, but it's still hosted there, so...
<Mirv> ubuntu-fi and ubuntu-it are eg. missing
<nixternal> smurf: gotcha
<smurf> Mirv: so add them ;-)
<Mirv> smurf: I don't know where -it moved and if we (-fi) have a "VPS" or a "server" :)
* JoeyStanford has another related topic ones volunteers have signed up for the hosting page.
<elkbuntu> yes, so lets deal with: <elkbuntu> ok, who volunteers to track down all the information, document the lack of specific howtos, and add them to the LoCoCreatingWebsites wiki?
<nixternal> elkbuntu: if we can't get the love here, maybe we could put it to the mailing list since a few people couldn't make it?
<elkbuntu> nixternal, yes, but it'd be nice for a 'coordinator'
<nixternal> very true, I am strapped right now, so to avoid burn-out syndrom, I have to pass
<elkbuntu> however since nobody has volunteered, i suppose we'll just have to open it as a free-for-all
<JoeyStanford> FunnyLookinHat and boredandblogging, from your recent investigation of hosting and perusal of places like Chicago's site and Australia's's, do you think you two could take a stab at the page?
<FunnyLookinHat> I would volunteer, but I think I would be much better at filling in ideas that have already been thought of.
<FunnyLookinHat> ahh, JoeyStanford had to pin me on it.
<JoeyStanford> hehe... Just and idea. In now way binding.
<JoeyStanford> ch/now/no
<boredandblogging> I'm not sure how much I could help since we are starting out, but that may be the best way to start the page
<FunnyLookinHat> just re-iterate exactly what topics I am discovering elkbuntu , would it be anyting for locodocs day or just related to the website?
<boredandblogging> I'd like to take a stab as long as people don't mind me bugging them with questions ;-)
<elkbuntu> FunnyLookinHat, it needs to be a portal page to link to anything to do with loco hosting and website software usage
<JoeyStanford> bugging is allowed.
<boredandblogging> then I volunteer
<FunnyLookinHat> boredandblogging, why don't you and i work together on it then.
<nixternal> boredandblogging: you can always bug me with questions as long as I am around :)
<boredandblogging> sounds good
<nixternal> I am always on #everywhere_imaginable :)
<elkbuntu> ok, cool. action: boredandblogging and FunnyLookinHat to oversee the construction of the LoCoCreatingWebsites wikipage :)
<JoeyStanford> might also want to poke mdke for ideas since he does the Ubuntu website.
<elkbuntu> very good point
* JoeyStanford has two more topics, 1 for  smurf and 1 for everyone
<elkbuntu> ok, please go on
<FunnyLookinHat> ::noted
<JoeyStanford> for smurf, please have a peek at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FrDeHosting   and see if this is still valid. It appears that it's a precursor to what you're doing now.
<iSeriesSysAdm> IBM Left?
<iSeriesSysAdm> sorry
<JoeyStanford> for everyone, is there sufficient interest to discuss this website topic today?  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamsUDSMVSpecs/UbuntuWebsiteCommunityTranslations
<JoeyStanford> if not, I'm happy to pass on it.
<smurf> JoeyStanford: FrDeHosting is a bit out of date and has been written for a locoteam meeting, I kindof doubt that we still need that page actually
<FunnyLookinHat> Do we have any non-english LoCos present that could comment on what mkde said on that page?
<FunnyLookinHat> *mdke
<JoeyStanford> smurf, that's what I was thinking.  I'll put that page's future in your hands.
<elkbuntu> we could probably benefit taking the translation page to the loco contacts list
<smurf> ok
<FunnyLookinHat> agreed.
<JoeyStanford> re: community translations, I know several non-English speaking LoCos have translated their own material (China, India, etc.)
<nixternal> Chicago as well :)
<elkbuntu> JoeyStanford, many of the teams that have their own websites have done so, yes.
<JoeyStanford> So I think the decision is really: a) do we translate in one location or b) do we leave it up to each LoCo team and their webstie
<JoeyStanford> From that aspect, I think I agree with mdke
<FunnyLookinHat> I think that the LoCo teams would be more adept at being able to address documentation targeted at their local population.
<nixternal> I would almost think it would be easier from one location, but what do I know
<elkbuntu> JoeyStanford, it would be useful to have the translations 'kept' in a central place, especially for languages that are used in multiple places
<nixternal> set the website up just like we do packages, and have each team translate, unless there is something easier. I have no clue though
<JoeyStanford> any other comments?
<JoeyStanford> smurf, jenda, Mirv pochu, etc?
<JoeyStanford> all you silent lurkers... :-)
<smurf> not from me
<smurf> JoeyStanford: FrDeHosting page suitably commented
<jenda> ?
<jenda> :)
<JoeyStanford> smurf, thank you sir.
<smurf> NP
<JoeyStanford> ok, I vote to pass on the translation topic and move to the next agenda item
<FunnyLookinHat> +1
<elkbuntu> JoeyStanford, i dont think the triad of english-speakers (you, nix, me) are going to be able to accurately decide on it, so +1
<alex_muntada> We at CatalanTeam (not official yet) started translating help.ubuntu.com, so we can integrate it on the same English website
<nixternal> ditto
<nixternal> alex_muntada: h.u.c/community or the actualy system docs?
<alex_muntada> now, from mdke comment I see that it brings trouble, so you're encouraging that teams have its own websites, isn't it?
<alex_muntada> nixternal: everything that we can contribute :)
<nixternal> nice!
<alex_muntada> but we don't know how yet ;)
<nixternal> h.u.c main page is translated in Rosetta
<nixternal> well the docs listed on that page are
<Mirv> yes, most guides are in Rosetta
<alex_muntada> oh yes, I remember now that someone told that on our list
<alex_muntada> but from mdke's comments it seems that this is not the way to go, is it?
<elkbuntu> i think we would need mdke here to clarify the point
<JoeyStanford> ==> 20 minutes remaining <==
<Mirv> regarding other stuff, I think most locoteams probably want to have somewhat unique sites so that they have some more local feel, but
<elkbuntu> how about we defer this point and move on to the next one?
<FunnyLookinHat> agreed.
<Mirv> ...we for example use the "About Ubuntu" translation from Rosetta as such for one of our pages
<nixternal> there is mdke now, so fire away
<JoeyStanford> speak of the devil, there is mdke
<nixternal> JoeyStanford: I went and wrangled him away from commiting more work than I this week :)
<elkbuntu> right... mdke, we are discussing https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamsUDSMVSpecs/UbuntuWebsiteCommunityTranslations
<mdke> that isn't on the agenda
<elkbuntu> mdke, it grew out of the first topic
<mdke> I would have put some time aside to turn up if I'd known it would be discussed
<mdke> as it is I have very little time
<mdke> anyway, how can I help?
<JoeyStanford> mdke, we were going to table this but if you have any comments you'd like to share at this time on that spec, we would love to hear them
<alex_muntada> mdke: the point being that LoCoTeams put their translation in the English website or in their own
<alex_muntada> help.ubuntu.com for instance
<mdke> I favour local teams using their own for consistency
<alex_muntada> so LoCo's websites can diverge from the original English websites, adapting to their local communities?
<mdke> I think local websites are great, and it's even better if everything can be found in the same place
<mdke> alex_muntada: yes, that's my opinion. I think it's also the current policy
<mdke> we're probably going to go the same way for help.ubuntu.com, tbh; it's too difficult to maintain all the languages
<JoeyStanford> mdke, were would go to look up the current policy?
<elkbuntu> i think we're going to have to move on to the next topic now
<mdke> it's not written down, but you can see that www.ubuntu.com isn't localised
<mdke> that's the most important site for Ubuntu, so...
<JoeyStanford> mdke, ok, thanks. We have about 11 minutes remaining so I also concur to move to the next topic.
<elkbuntu> next topic: Set Date for next LoCoDocsDay. What can we do to encourage more LoCo's to contribute?
<alex_muntada> agreed, we can discuss this further on another meeting
<mdke> ok! please update the agenda early in future so people can see what interests them
* FunnyLookinHat blames JoeyStanford 
<iSeriesSysAdm> +1
<JoeyStanford> Yeah, these were pick-up topics generated from the original topic.
<elkbuntu> ok,,, on to the locodocsday topic
<elkbuntu> any ideas?
<FunnyLookinHat> I propose that the date for LoCoDocsDay be before the end of Feb.  Any opposition to that?
<JoeyStanford> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoDocsDay
<elkbuntu> is two weeks sufficient to promote?
<FunnyLookinHat> Hug days are often done with less promotion time and have had great success.
<elkbuntu> FunnyLookinHat, hug days are more well-known generally
<nixternal> I know Jono is interested mainly in getting well rounded documentation for the LoCo Teams FAQ and the Knowledge base
<FunnyLookinHat> quite true.
<FunnyLookinHat> Well, at the least, I say it's done before Feisty release...  I know it's a ways off, but time can go by quickly.
<pochu> hug days are often each 15 days, I think :)
<JoeyStanford> The driver, for me, for the Doc Days is to help bring the number of CC Approved LoCo teams up.
<nixternal> Ubuntu BugSquad - we do our hug days every Wednesday, we can pick a day and make it a LoCo Hug day, on any other day than Wednesday
<JoeyStanford> The better the docs, the more help we can be as group to emerging LoCo teams.  That combined with mentoring would be a boon, I would think.
<pochu> nixternal: not every Wednesday
<nixternal> pochu: did that change, or did someone get lazy?
<nixternal> s/lazy/busy :)
<pochu> nixternal: you can see the topic of #ubuntu-bugs, and the mailing list for the hug day :)
<FunnyLookinHat> I think we should also note that with Feisty you are going to see a unique surge in Ubuntu (and coincidentally Loco) interest...
<pochu> last wednesday wasn't a hug day
<JoeyStanford> ==> 5 mins remaining <==
<pochu> but this it is :)
<elkbuntu> JoeyStanford, maybe another case for 'ask the list'?
<FunnyLookinHat> +1
<JoeyStanford> I was thinking about FunnyLookinHat's suggestion. Maybe the 24th.
<elkbuntu> JoeyStanford, can it be sufficiently promoted, since it's not yet a tradition in the community?
<JoeyStanford> elkbuntu, ...and that's what I was just thinking about.  It's easy to set a date. It's hard to get help to actually update the docs.
<FunnyLookinHat> The amount of work related to LoCoDocs day is much less than they try to accomplish in a Hug day...  we won't need to garner 100 people or anything like that.
<FunnyLookinHat> But it would be nice if it was people other than LoCo leaders helping out.
<elkbuntu> FunnyLookinHat, no, but after last docs day, i had a good few people ask me why they had not known about it
<FunnyLookinHat> Then let's definitely send an email to the loco-contacts list to make sure each team lead informs their team about the day and task at hand.
<alex_muntada> elkbuntu: what about putting that in next UWN
<JoeyStanford> Well, with about 1 minute remaining, we can either defer the topic for two weeks or set a date now, Fridge-it, UWN-it, and Blog-it
<elkbuntu> alex_muntada, of course. the last one was on there, so i see no reason why this one shouldnt be
<JoeyStanford> ==> Time
<alex_muntada> +1 for Feb 24
<FunnyLookinHat> I vote to set a date and promote like angry monkeys.
<FunnyLookinHat> +1 Feb 24
<nixternal> +1
<pochu> +1
<elkbuntu> i'd prefer more time to promote it
<pochu> I think 2 weeks is fine
<elkbuntu> pochu, 12 days != 2 weeks
<pochu> hehe
<pochu> you're right :)
<FunnyLookinHat> We could always have another one before the end of march if necessary, couldn't we?
<elkbuntu> of course i am
<FunnyLookinHat> haha!
<JoeyStanford> The next LoCo meeting should be on the 25th-ish so 3 March would be the next good date
<elkbuntu> that makes more sense to me
<elkbuntu> the extra week will also give us time to plan during next loco meeting
<FunnyLookinHat> Agreed.
<alex_muntada> no problem
<elkbuntu> +1 3rd march
<JoeyStanford> ok, amended proposal:  Next LoCo Meeting 25 March at 17:00 GMT  and  Docs Day on 3 March
<FunnyLookinHat> +1
* JoeyStanford opens up a can of worms
<alex_muntada> +1
* FunnyLookinHat once read a book on how to eat fried worms...  13 different ways!
<JoeyStanford> any more comments?
<elkbuntu> nope, i think we're done
<JoeyStanford> Thank you all for attending. Even you lurkers. ;-)
<ausimag1> Very briefly, I am with ScribesTeam. We would like to encourage a response about how loco meetings are recorded and located. You can email ubuntu-scribes@cjo20.net with a response. Check the wiki for more about the Team.
<JoeyStanford> ausimag1, would you like to present at the next meeting?
<ausimag1> Hmmm I could... NikButler had said he would... but I had not seen him lately
<JoeyStanford> ok, I'll add you to the next agenda.
<ausimag1> I also know Stephen emailed the list about this
<JoeyStanford> elkbuntu, nixternal, I'll take a try now on updating the agenda and the docs day page.
<ausimag1> Cool 25 march???
<JoeyStanford> 25 Feb
<nixternal> roger that
<ausimag1> 25 feb
<ausimag1> K
<JoeyStanford> =================> End LoCo Meeting <=======================
<elkbuntu> JoeyStanford, good, because i have to go now. cya
<elkbuntu> thanks all for coming
<nixternal> I need to eat something, then get to hacking again. Thanks everyone for showing up!!!
<pochu> thanks guys!
<alex_muntada> thanks!
<Rinchen> Seveas, are you still here?
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-02-04
<Andre_Gondim> is there some one from planet ubuntu here?
<nixternal> @schedule chicago
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 13 Feb 16:30: Forum Council | 14 Feb 22:00: MOTU | 19 Feb 19:00: TriLoCo-Midwest
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 07 Feb 16:00 UTC: Fridge Editors | 13 Feb 22:30 UTC: Forum Council | 15 Feb 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 20 Feb 01:00 UTC: TriLoCo-Midwest
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-02-05
<emgent> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 07 Feb 16:00: Fridge Editors | 13 Feb 22:30: Forum Council | 15 Feb 04:00: MOTU | 20 Feb 01:00: TriLoCo-Midwest
<master_obredar> helllllllllo
<master_obredar> echo echo
<master_obredar> 104 ppl and no hi or help thank you
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-02-06
<protonchris> @date
<protonchris> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 07 Feb 16:00: Fridge Editors | 13 Feb 22:30: Forum Council | 15 Feb 04:00: MOTU | 20 Feb 01:00: TriLoCo-Midwest
<gary4gar> !meet
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about meet - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 06 Feb 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu Community Council meeting | 07 Feb 16:00 UTC: Fridge Editors | 13 Feb 22:30 UTC: Forum Council | 15 Feb 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 20 Feb 01:00 UTC: TriLoCo-Midwest
<emonkey> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 06 Feb 20:00: Edubuntu Community Council meeting | 07 Feb 16:00: Fridge Editors | 13 Feb 22:30: Forum Council | 15 Feb 04:00: MOTU | 20 Feb 01:00: TriLoCo-Midwest
 * heno waves
 * ogasawara waves
<pedro_> hello!
 * stgraber too
 * cliebow cliebow too
<davmor2> Hello everybody
<heno> liw doesn't seem to be on-line
<bdmurray> howdy
<heno> it's 21.00 for him though
<heno> ok, let's start
<heno> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 18:57. The chair is heno.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<heno> first some admin: can we do meeting minutes on rotation?
<heno> I seem to be very bad at doing them
<heno> In return I'll make sure the agenda is out the day before each time :)
<ogasawara> heno:  what's required, just sending a summary to distro-team ml?
<heno> ogasawara: yes, just the agenda + what we decided
<heno> it should go to ubuntu-qa as well
<ogasawara> heno: ok, I can do it for today's meeting
<heno> ogasawara: thanks!
<heno> [TOPIC] SRU verification testing (Riddell asked about 133944, 184149 and 173890)
<MootBot> New Topic:  SRU verification testing (Riddell asked about 133944, 184149 and 173890)
<heno> what is the current SRU backlog?
<davmor2> bug 133944
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 133944 in kdepim "package kitchensync 4:3.5.6-0ubuntu6 failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite `/usr/share/apps/ksync/ksyncui.rc', which is also in package ksync" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/133944
<liw> oh, a summary to the mailing list? I didn't do that last week
<heno> Is there anyone other than the QA team doing these now?
<bdmurray> None of those bugs have test cases
<heno> (mvo was doing them before)
<bdmurray> One person is doing some universe sru verification
<heno> bdmurray: and that would usually be the responsibility of the bug-fixer?
<heno> (writing a test case)
<bdmurray> Right, that is part of the SRU process and should be done by the person who uploaded the package to proposed
<bdmurray> 133944 looks fairly obvious but I'm not certain about the other 2
<pedro_> the flash one looks like an installation issue, i can give it a try
<heno> ok, I'll post a clarification somewhere
<pedro_> it's a universe one but anyways, don't mind
<heno> perhaps we should change the tag from needs-verification to needs-testcase in those cases
<bdmurray> I think it is important that the process is followed though
<heno> bdmurray: agreed, esp now that it's distributed over more people
<heno> I have raised the manpower issue here with Matt
<heno> thanks, bdmurray i'll report back to Riddell
<heno> [TOPIC] Bug days this week: 'no package' and Evolution
<MootBot> New Topic:  Bug days this week: 'no package' and Evolution
<heno> just a bit of advertising for those :)
<heno> how was yesterday's bug day?
<bdmurray> We had about 15 participants - based off a review of the wiki page
<heno> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20080205
<bdmurray> I have some numbers about how many each person did too
<heno> I'll discuss the 'no package' question with the LP team on friday
<pedro_> bdmurray: do you have a bughelper query for that ?
<bdmurray> pedro_: I have some nasty script for parsing the wiki page
<pedro_> ah ok
<heno> bdmurray: hm, should we publish such stats at the end of bug days?
<heno> how do people feel about that?
<davmor2> heno: might be good for selfesteem
<bdmurray> I think it could promote some healthy competition
<liw> I think publishing stats would be good
<pedro_> indeed
<liw> not because of competition, but because it shows that they have an actual, positive impact
<heno> ok, I guess it can just go on the wiki page
<heno> and people can optionally blog about it
<bdmurray> I think mailing the bugsquad / desktop team with information about the top triager (not Canonical) would be good too
<heno> (I'm setting up my blog today ...)
<heno> while on that topic, let's skip to ' 5-A-Day initiative'
<heno> [TOPIC]  5-A-Day initiative
<MootBot> New Topic:   5-A-Day initiative
<bdmurray> Regarding the nopackage bugs I wonder if we are enabling people by filing their bug to a package
<liw> bdmurray, you mean it would be better to teach them to select the package for their bug themselves?
<heno> bdmurray: there is that worry. I would rather have it set automatically to incomplete with an email explaining why
<heno> that way it will eventually expire too
<bdmurray> liw: Right a mindset like "I don't need to find the package because somebody will do it for me"
<davmor2> bdmurray: I think the problem is that people just don't know what's broken so don't know what to report it to
<liw> I've felt like that, early on in my Ubuntu career
<liw> (one of the nice things about reportbug in Debian is that it chooses the package (and reports the version) automatically)
<heno> I don't think we can just ignore existing bugs, but we need a way to reduce it happening
<heno> liw: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs
<heno> i'm hoping that will help
<heno> we should try to find out where people get their bug filing info from
<bdmurray> I agree that can finding the right package can be hard but we have done some work at documenting how to determine the source package and there are some packages which can get general bug reports and then set to a more specific package if necessary
<heno> what link do they follow to ...+filebug
<heno> do they navigate ubuntu.com, LP or google?
<heno> we should then make sure those paths have the right info
<bdmurray> heno: would the lp team have information on that?
<heno> I can ask them and IS as well
 * heno makes note
<bdmurray> Additionally knowing how many people use the advanced file bug form would be good to know.
<bdmurray> Since that has no guided bug filing instructions
<heno> yep
<pedro_> and it's _really_ difficult to find
<heno> we could also try a survey of 50 random bug filers
<davmor2> so five-a-day?
<heno> indeed; this is an initiative to get a broader group of people to do some bug work daily
<heno> developers and power users for example
<heno> we should have a 5-a-day link button for blogs
<heno> like we are planning for the poll
<davmor2> it's an interesting concept and it sounds plausible
<heno> so ideas for key bug categories to look at are welcome
<heno> both 'easy' and 'hard' tasks
<heno> can we leverage the bug day preparations?
<heno> perhaps mop up bugs not covered on the day?
<davmor2> heno: it might also be an interesting way to get the no-package bugs linked to a package.  If people like me search for 5 no-package bugs ask for more info where needed and add a package
<davmor2> then the experts can take over :)
<heno> I guess this is mostly ready for launch; I'll check with dholbach
<bdmurray> Right, I think the nopackage bugs can be very easy sometimes
<bdmurray> And moving them to the proper package is very helpful
<heno> because then the responsible teams may actually look at them :)
<heno> [TOPIC] Upstream bug tracker wiki pages (help wanted)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Upstream bug tracker wiki pages (help wanted)
<heno> (moving on)
<davmor2> bdmurray: That's what I'm thinking if you get newer people to start there where it's useful and easy plus not so many questions to the devs for help
<heno> thanks to those who have added tracker info!
<pedro_> oh there's a Debian one
 * pedro_ looks at liw
<pedro_> ;-)
 * heno looks at liw too :)
<liw> actually there _isn't_ a Debian one, as far as I can see :)
<heno> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Upstream
<heno> just a stub link
<liw> writing one is already on my todo list
<heno> \o/
<pedro_> woohoo
<heno> thanks :)  i know very little about the Debian BTS
<heno> I'll have a go at OOo
<bdmurray> Isn't the Linking bit http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Watches ?
<heno> the 'issue tracker'
<bdmurray> re OOo we are pretty divergent from upstream as I understand it
<heno> yes, we should just link to that and not repeat it
<heno> bdmurray: yeah, I'll need to get calc's advice
<heno> Bugs/Watches looks very nice, btw
<bdmurray> Well, that's mostly due to ogasawara
<heno> looks like a team effort on the get info page
<heno> so once those are in  shape we can promote them a bit
<heno> next -
<heno> [TOPIC] QAPoll testing
<MootBot> New Topic:  QAPoll testing
<heno> nand, stgraber?
<stgraber> ok, so we updated QA-Poll and QA-Tracker yesterday and QA-Poll is now ready for a private beta
<heno> what the current URL?
<stgraber> The idea part being: http://qa.ubuntu.com/qapoll/ideas/
<stgraber> and the bug part: http://qa.ubuntu.com/qapoll/bugs/
<heno> looks lovely with the artwork :)
<stgraber> yes, and it's also full of JS :)
<heno> stgraber: are you happy with those URLs or should it be poll.qa.u.c/bugs ?
<stgraber> so nand would like you to use it and report any usability issues, bugs, english problems, layout, feature, ...
<heno> and .../ideas
<stgraber> that's the next point, we don't like the current URLs and would like to move to sub-domains
<heno> I spoke with the sysadmins and we'd like to keep it under qa.u.c
<heno> to avoid to much proliferation of domains
<stgraber> ok, that was nand's question
<stgraber> so we'll have two sub-domains, one for the idea tracker and one for the bug part
<heno> poll.qa.ubuntu.com/<poll-name> seems good, no?
<stgraber> IIRC he sent you a mail about that, I'm not sure of the exact domains he had in mind
<bdmurray> davmor2: can you add information about your video card to bug 173130?  'lspci -vvnn' would be great
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 173130 in xserver-xorg-video-nv "hardy 64bit live cd GFX issues" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173130
<stgraber> heno: we can't do that with Drupal
<stgraber> it'll have to be poll.qa.ubuntu.com/qapoll/ideas/idea/x
<heno> stgraber: yes I think he wanted something.ubuntu.com for each
<davmor2> bdmurray: I got 3 different ones that it doesn't work on properly do you want them all?
<stgraber> though having two different sub-domains will let us default on the right module
<heno> stgraber: but we can do it with apache though right?
<stgraber> heno: indeed, but we can also do it on qa.ubuntu.com, it would have been shorter and easier to remember on qa.ubuntu.com though
<heno> can we do bugs.poll.qa.u.c ?
<stgraber> heno: we would have to see how easy it's with the URL rewritting as Drupal is also using quite a lot of it and we don't want a conflict :)
<stgraber> heno: that seems a bit hard to remember, no ?
<bdmurray> davmor2: yes
<heno> stgraber: right let's investigate and discuss on ubuntu-qa
<davmor2> bdmurray: np
<stgraber> next point is the testing window and release date
<stgraber> our current plan is to have it tested from after-Alpha4 (now) till after-Alpha5
<heno> should we start filling up with semi-real data during testing?
<heno> so we can launch with some real examples
<heno> stgraber: sounds good
<stgraber> if no major bug have been reported, we'll upload the fix, test it for 1-2 extra days and send the anouncement
<davmor2> heno: made more sense to me to do that than not
<stgraber> I think that the DB will be wiped before making it public
<stgraber> but we can add some examples in the installation scripts so they are added the same time we make it public
<davmor2> that's okay it can be added again :)
<heno> ok, we should put in 2-3 real samples before launch though
<stgraber> but real examples even for testing are a good idea as it's the best way to find bugs :) (test with real data)
<heno> I'll show this to the LP bugs team on Friday
<heno> so, please test!
<stgraber> a question I have is : How will we anounce it ?
<stgraber> do we have a good way to advertise it widely (!= blog post on the planet)
<heno> we should coordinate a bit with the community team
<davmor2> stgraber: with trumpets and fanfares of course
<heno> I'll talk with marketing on Friday too; we might do a press release
<stgraber> sounds good
<heno> if they think it's appropriate
<heno> just so we get the /. effect :)
<heno> any other topics?
<stgraber> you'll have to warn the sysadmins too in this case :)
<heno> our time is soon up
<davmor2> stgraber: I think the more useful thing at first which will get real data in is let the bug team/other ubuntu dev mailing lists know, then move on to the real public.
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Edubuntu Community Council meeting Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 07 Feb 16:00 UTC: Fridge Editors | 13 Feb 22:30 UTC: Forum Council | 15 Feb 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 20 Feb 01:00 UTC: TriLoCo-Midwest
<heno> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 19:51.
<heno> thanks everyone!
<davmor2> bye
<pedro_> thanks
<heno> and thanks ogasawara for doing the summary :)
<ogasawara> heno: np
 * liw goes back to meddling with hardware
<nixternal> hola RichEd and ogra_cmpc!
<RichEd> hi there nixternal
<ogra_cmpc> heya
<RichEd> you can raise the edubuntu handbook stuff at the meeting ... or else sidebar if you want
<nixternal> oh boy do I have some work, I mean questions, for you two :)
<RichEd> but open forum is better :)
 * RichEd closes his window
<nixternal> well, this is related to the Offical Ubuntu Book
<nixternal> hahah
<RichEd> :) nixternal ... you can thank me for setting jono onto you
<nixternal> actually, it could be fairly quite easy and may be best to communicate via email with it honestly
<nixternal> RichEd: actually I got attacked by mako and the editor, which probably got it from jono :)
 * stgraber waves
<RichEd> nixternal: get the issues on the table in the meeting, and we can go into details by email
<juliux> hey nixternal
<RichEd> if we expose the "inner workings" of our documentation, perhaps some people may volunteer to help a bit
<nixternal> hiya juliux
<RichEd> LaserJock was bemoaning the lack of contributions last meeting
<nixternal> man, I am in documentation overload :)
<RichEd> hence let's see if there are any interested community members
 * RichEd was about to get a pre-meeting coffee when nixternal jumped on him
<RichEd> back in 3 min ...
<RichEd> ogra: kick off with technical when you are ready
<nixternal> there are so many people who want to contribute, getting them interested in documentation though has proved difficult over the many years I have been doing it
 * ogra_cmpc joins the coffee effort
<ogra_cmpc> sorry ...
 * nixternal pours in some more Dr. Pepper
 * RichEd ajusts his away status and looks around for ogra or even ogra_cmpc 
<ogra_cmpc> there we go
<ogra_cmpc> not much on my side ... i packaged up the new classmate scripts for hardy, started a skeleton package for edubuntu-content-server ...
<RichEd> perhaps i should announce first that this is an official Edubuntu Community Council meeting ... and if anyone is here for approval, we'll do that after the tech stuff
<ogra_cmpc> did lots of bugfixes on ltp anhd work on consolekit integration of ldm
<ogra_cmpc> *ltsp
 * juliux notes that this is an historical edubuntu weekly meeting;)
<ogra_cmpc> the consolekit stuff is critical, without support for it no administrative apps will work at all on ltsp clients
<ogra_cmpc> well,n not much more has happened rec4ently on the tech side
<stgraber> ogra_cmpc: cmpc's keyboard is way too small it seems :)
<ogra_cmpc> i didnt use it for a while it always takes me a while to get used to it again
<ogra_cmpc> stgraber: an update on italc FOR THE OTHERS ?
<ogra_cmpc> OOPS
<ogra_cmpc> sorry :)
<stgraber> yes, so I worked a bit with italc's upstream and we had most bugs fixed
<stgraber> he'll release a new "official" tarball this week
<stgraber> the only remaining problem and not a small one is the demo mode
<ogra_cmpc> yay
<stgraber> which basically just crashes the client part of italc as soon as a teacher starts it
<stgraber> italc's upstream is currently having exams and then doesn't have time to investigate
<ogra_cmpc> any news from QT upstream about that ?
<stgraber> and my C++/QT knowledges are approching 0 so I can't really help at that
<stgraber> QT upstream says that it's likely a software bug, so not their problem :) (different wording of course)
<ogra_cmpc> pffft
<stgraber> so if any of you happens to have some knowledges of QT/C++, especially the QImage thing that seems to crash, please ping me :)
<stgraber> what we have to decide anyway is what to do with iTalc, can we just disable the demo mode for the time being
<stgraber> and eventually re-enable it if we happen to receive a patch in time for the release
<stgraber> I don't think we want to have tcm for 3 more years, do we ?
<nixternal> have you asked Riddell to take a look at it? I could scower it, but he would know way more Qt than I would
<ogra_cmpc> remind me tomorrow to ping \sh_away about it :) he loves to save people in desparate situations and knows C++ and QT :)
<stgraber> nixternal: he told me to ask on #kde-devel, but as iTalc isn't a kde app but only QT one, I asked in some QT channels
<ogra_cmpc> the only prob i see is that it will prevent the MIR from being accepted if we have that bug .... beyond that its a bug and can be fixed after FF
<nixternal> stgraber: roger that
<stgraber> ogra_cmpc: I also need a new version from upstream as I won't upload a pre-release to universe with main in mind (especially as the pre-release isn't published anywhere)
<ogra_cmpc> stgraber: so what is the release upwstream wants to publish next week ?
<ogra_cmpc> a pre-release or something official ?
<stgraber> something official including most of my patches + some extra bug fixes
 * stgraber is checking upstream website
<ogra_cmpc> well, lets get it in then ... we still have more than a month to fix that bug, that should suffice unless its something disastrously broken in the general design
<stgraber> doesn't seem like something big
<ogra_cmpc> right
<stgraber> as it seems to work fine on some other distros
<ogra_cmpc> thats my gut feeling as well
<ogra_cmpc> hmm, it does ?
<ogra_cmpc> might be our xorg or vnc implementation then
<stgraber> yes, upstream hasn't been able to reproduce yet
<ogra_cmpc> hey johnny
<johnny> hi
<nixternal> ooh, a Maryland guy
<johnny> what is a cmpc ?
<stgraber> I had a quick look at QT's source code and it was full of 15/16/32bit graphic stuff
<ogra_cmpc> johnny: ClassmatePC
<stgraber> so may be related to our xorg (vnc being included in italc's code)
<ogra_cmpc> hmm, can you force it to 16bit ?
<ogra_cmpc> in the code
<ogra_cmpc> i bet that would help :)
<RichEd> hi Pascal_1
<ogra_cmpc> anyway ... italc is waiting for next upstream, i'll try to catch \sh
<Pascal_1> hi !!
<ogra_cmpc> more for tech ?
<RichEd> Pascal_1: f.y.i. meeting format is 1st session : tech (mostly related to development)
<ogra_cmpc> btw did anyone test the new ltsp setup on the ubuntu alternate cd ?
<RichEd> then next session : community / web sites / news ... mroe general discussion
<juliux> ogra_cmpc, i plan to do that in the next daies
<ogra_cmpc> ah, great
<ogra_cmpc> i'd love to get feedback about the installer
<cliebow> ogra_cmpc, ill try it pretty quick here..
<ogra_cmpc> thanks :)
<juliux> ogra_cmpc, shoud we use a daily build?
<stgraber> ogra_cmpc: nope, I poked you about that but you weren't around
<stgraber> ogra_cmpc: so I didn't test edubuntu's Alpha4 (we were already short for testing ubuntu :))
<ogra_cmpc> juliux: i havent tested any dailiews since alpha4
<juliux> ok i will use alpha4;)
<stgraber> ogra_cmpc: do we now have a menu option on the alternate ?
<ogra_cmpc> i can say that alpha4 worked :) but thats all atm
<ogra_cmpc> stgraber: not yet, cjwatson_ wants to redesign teh menu in general first
<ogra_cmpc> if thats in order we'll have a menu option
<stgraber> ogra_cmpc: ok, I saw he sent a couple of change to gfxboot-theme-ubuntu yesterday (language selection, theme, ...)
<stgraber> ogra_cmpc: what's the extra parameter to start the ltsp part ?
<ogra_cmpc> oh, i didnt notice ... i'll look at that
<ogra_cmpc> hit f6 and add ltsp-client-builder/run=true
<stgraber> ok, will give it a try today or tomorrow as I need to reinstall my test computer
<ogra_cmpc> i only test on virtualbox atm so there might be lots of cases with real hw i dont catch while testing, who knows
<nixternal> ogra_cmpc: any chance all of this stuff can be done by next week? I am approaching the official book deadline :p
<ogra_cmpc> nixternal: i doubt that but i can ask
<nixternal> haha
<ogra_cmpc> :)
<juliux> ogra_cmpc, i will test it on a transtec mini pc;)
<nixternal> I would love to see Mr. Watson's face when you ask :)
<ogra_cmpc> heh
<ogra_cmpc> better not ... he's way to busy ....
<nixternal> hey, for those of you testing LTSP from the alternate CD, could you do a mini write up of the steps you took to get it setup...that is of course if it has changed much since Feisty
<ogra_cmpc> (its about time to think about PAs for our managers :P )
<nixternal> and if possible, any screenshots in 1024x768 format :)
<ogra_cmpc> nixternal: if you have two NICs ther is nothing to set up
<nixternal> well, I am going over the Edubuntu chapter int he book, and there is quite a bit of write up on setting up LTSp
<nixternal> tis why I asked
<ogra_cmpc> tweaking != setup ;)
<nixternal> true
<ogra_cmpc> ltsp as is should work out of the box with any system with two NICs if you install from teh alternate CD
<stgraber> as I'll be installing on real hardware it'll be hard to provide screenshots but I'll try to think about it next time I do it virtually
<nixternal> OK, so all of the tweaks that are currently in the book are good to go, just need to add information about the alternate CD
<ogra_cmpc> if you have on;ly one NIC it tells you what to do in the installer, thats probably woth a screenshot
<stgraber> ogra_cmpc: I'm installing with one so I usually trigger 90% of the bugs that way :)
<nixternal> heh
<nixternal> ogra_cmpc: shoot, I just looked on my floor and seen a server doing absolutely nothing but looking sad...looks like I can setup LTSP here and play
<ogra_cmpc> the hints in teh book are actually for fine tuning ... usually if stuff doesnt work out of the box in a usable default setup we consider that a bug
<nixternal> derrr me :)
<nixternal> well, I have LTSP and the Alternate CD covered...just have a few more things to ask about Edubuntu today for the book, but I will wait until it is my turn :)
<ogra_cmpc> if you set up ltsp *after* installation on a normal ubuntu desktop box https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall applies
<nixternal> thanks
<ogra_cmpc> anhd probably its worth a note that you need to install ubuntu-desktop if you want ltsp to run on a server installation
<nixternal> got it
<ogra_cmpc> anything else for tech ?
<ogra_cmpc> and where is highvoltage ??
<ogra_cmpc> he asked for an EC meeting and now we dont have quorum due to him missing in action :P
<nixternal> hehe
<ogra_cmpc> if there is nothing else for tech ....
 * ogra_cmpc hands over the mic to RichEd
<nixternal> ogra_cmpc: any new apps for Edubuntu that can/should be hit on in the book?
<nixternal> italc?
<ogra_cmpc> nixternal: not this time round ... apart from italc
<nixternal> OK..I will put some italc info in there then
<ogra_cmpc> but we're not 100% sure it will make it zet
<ogra_cmpc> yet
<nixternal> OK..I will hold off
<nixternal> what about artwork?
<RichEd> well let's move onto documentation: nixternal get all of your issues / requirements out so they get into the log
<nixternal> still looking the same?
<nixternal> RichEd: groovy
<RichEd> nixternal: wallpaper will change
<nixternal> LTSP and Alternate CD have been covered
<nixternal> when will the wallpaper change occur?
<ogra_cmpc> .oO(why do you english guys have to flip y and z on kezboards... baah)
<nixternal> I would like to possibly take some new screenshots for the book
<nixternal> hehe
<juliux> ogra_cmpc, because the germans have Ã¤Ã¶Ã¼ ;)
<juliux> ogra_cmpc, and they want to sell more keyboards;)
<ogra_cmpc> now that sounds plausible !
<ogra_cmpc> :)
<ogra_cmpc> nixternal: we dont have any new artwork yet and its likely that we'll slip the deadline with the wallpaper
<nixternal> OK
<ogra_cmpc> (since thats a volunteer contribution)
<ogra_cmpc> the otrher artwork will follow ubuntu but have adjusted colors as usual
<ogra_cmpc> (gdm, ldm usplash)
<nixternal> OK...now if I got this right, Edubuntu is no longer a Live CD or install CD, it is just an addon to Ubuntu?
<nixternal> the CD that is
<ogra_cmpc> right
<nixternal> so people should get Ubuntu first and then install Edubuntu off of the CD
<ogra_cmpc> edubuntu-desktop (the metapackage) will just depend on ubuntu-desktop
<RichEd> nixternal: let me give you some info on that ... hang on one sec
<ogra_cmpc> right
<nixternal> RichEd: thanks
<RichEd> nixternal: perhaps you should also introduce the byline we will be adopting for 8.04:
<RichEd> Edubuntu 8.04 - Eubuntu Education Edition
<RichEd> it would be very good if you could get that as a heading for the edubuntu chapter / section
<nixternal> OK, that was actually my next question
<ogra_cmpc> install ubuntu, pop in the addon cd and g-a-i will offer you to install additions
<juliux> hmm for linuxtag i have registred an edubuntu booth
<nixternal> Jordan and I spoke of that week after the last Edubuntu meeting because I seen you all talking about it
<nixternal> so groovy
<juliux> should i change that to ubuntu education?
<ogra_cmpc> juliux: fine for now
<RichEd> hang on ...guys let me get the story across
<RichEd> :)
<juliux> ok
<RichEd> here's the reasoning ... Edubuntu was it's own variant ... it's own build, install etc.
<ogra_cmpc> the branding will change over time, as RichEd will explain
<nixternal> err, Edubuntu Education Edition or Ubuntu Education Edition?
<RichEd> now it moves sensible to be an add-on ...
<RichEd> *sensibly
 * juliux loves edubuntu as a name;)
<ogra_cmpc> nixternal: the latter indeed :)
<RichEd> we (education) will get a rock solid engine ... ubuntu ... and concentrate on the education layers on top of the ubuntu base
<RichEd> LTSP moved into ubuntu
<nixternal> OK, so that was a typo then by RichEd..just wanted to make sure before you seen it published incorrectly in the book :)
<RichEd> so the base has what we need
<RichEd> hence the move to an add-on CD installed on top of ubuntu
<RichEd> and all support / dev issues below education go to the full ubuntu team
<RichEd> and education specific stuff goes to ogra
 * highvoltage is here
<RichEd> --
<ogra_cmpc> zaz
<highvoltage> sorry
 * juliux waves to highvoltage 
<ogra_cmpc> hrm
<ogra_cmpc> yay even
<RichEd> so seeing as we are no longer our own distro ... or install ... we're adding the byline:
<RichEd> Ubuntu Education Edition
<highvoltage> hi juliux
<highvoltage> I just had to help someone with car troubles, glad I still made it in time, did I?
<RichEd> and as we move forwards, anyone can start with an ubuntu install, and then select optional education additions/enhancements straight from the CD
<juliux> RichEd, will the website,logo, also move or only the distribution name?
<RichEd> so they could add edu apps, but not the desktop
<RichEd> etc.
<ogra_cmpc> highvoltage: you missed tech completely ... shame on you ... stand in the corner and wear that funny hat :P
<RichEd> so to wind up, and answer the edubuntu brand questions :)
<ogra_cmpc> highvoltage: indeed you did :)
<RichEd> - if the users installs ubuntu
<RichEd> - and then takes the education add on cd and selects the bundle "edubuntu"
 * highvoltage puts on the funny hat
<ogra_cmpc> lol
<RichEd> it will install our full end config, apps, wallpaper, icons etc.
<RichEd> so edubuntu will remain as the name of the full bundled solution
<highvoltage> ah cool, so they would still end up with a recognisable "edu" desktop
<RichEd> ^ does that all make sense ... nixternal .. highvoltage ... others ?
<nixternal> RichEd: most definitely does...you don't know how greatful I am for that explanation
<RichEd> highvoltage: yes, think of edubuntu as the school install
<ogra_cmpc> edubuntu-desktop wont go away as metapackage
<nixternal> you just hit every question I had on the head with it
<highvoltage> well, I understand it. I'm not sure if that qualifies as making sense. I'd have to say yes.
<highvoltage> RichEd: I think upon release, there might be lots of noise about this, and possibly some fears
<RichEd> but if me as a daddy at home wants to add the full (selected & supported & maintained) suite of edu apps for my kids to use ... i'd probably do just that, and leave my ubuntu look & feel
<nixternal> at least I have something to go back to the publisher with now and make up some plans on moving forward these next couple of days
<ogra_cmpc> nixternal: we might not call the addon cd edubuntu anymore next release though ....
<highvoltage> RichEd: I think everyone will have to pitch in a bit to avoid confusion
<RichEd> highvoltage: so we will not *change* the name
<ogra_cmpc> but even then the edubuntu package set will persist
<nixternal> ogra_cmpc: I will worry about hardy+1 if and when they ask me to update the book again :)
<highvoltage> RichEd: and to emphasise that this will not be a regression for Edubuntu, but a change that will allow Edubuntu to accelerate in its goals
<ogra_cmpc> it gives us an immense amount of spare CD space
<ogra_cmpc> (even though the current situation might not look like that :) )
<highvoltage> yes, that is awesome!
 * mathiaz waves at ogra_cmpc 
<highvoltage> why? is it currently padded with lanugage packs?
<ogra_cmpc> but we have 90 langpacks eating up our space atm
<ogra_cmpc> hey mathiaz
<RichEd> here's the suggested name migration route:
<RichEd> Edubuntu 8.04 - Ubuntu Education Edition
<RichEd> Ubuntu Education Edition 8.10 - Edubuntu
 * ogra_cmpc is still for replacing "Edition" with "Enhancements" :)
<RichEd> think of this benefit to us ... by 8.10 *any* ubuntu user will be able to select a simple option from the default desktop saying ... add Ubuntu Education Components
<RichEd> they could then choose: edubuntu bundle
<ogra_cmpc> i think there is a server team now ...
<nijaba> Hello
<ogra_cmpc> we need to move i guess
<RichEd> or any components thereof
<ogra_cmpc> err
<ogra_cmpc> server team meeting
<ogra_cmpc> :)
<stgraber> hmm, our meetings are only 1hour long now ? :)
<highvoltage> RichEd: have you seen http://www.tectonic.co.za/?p=2053 ?
<RichEd> is there one ? nothing on the fridge for tonight
<ogra_cmpc> stgraber: one in a month is
<mathiaz> RichEd: the fridge is broken every start of the month
 * RichEd loads the link
<juliux> RichEd, i am fine with everything as long we keep the name edubuntu a live
<juliux> life
<ogra_cmpc> alive ?
<akincer> Starting soon?
<mathiaz> akincer: couple of minutes. Just give some time to the edubuntu team to finish off their meeting
<ogra_cmpc> ok, seems we should make room then, i didnt know there is the server meeting *today* actually ...
<RichEd> juliux: certainly ... edubuntu has a history and champions ... emotional value ... user recognition ... reviewer blogs ... distro history
<RichEd> no one will drop all of that in any way
<RichEd> :)
<juliux> good
<RichEd> ogra_cmpc: do we need to move ?
<ogra_cmpc> RichEd: well, it would be polite i guess
<ogra_cmpc> :)
<RichEd> === is there a server team meeting waiting ===
<mathiaz> RichEd: yes
<ivoks> yes
<highvoltage> thanks
<nijaba> Hey yo can stay if you want :)
<juliux> ok lets move;)
<soren> Yes.
<soren> :)
<RichEd> okay .., sorry for the overrun ... edubuntu people back in your channel !
<highvoltage> sorry for being late, I'll carry an IRC device next time I have to run out!
<ogra_cmpc> nijaba: double meeting in one room ?
<akincer> sorry, I just buzzed over from other things
<ogra_cmpc> wow, nice challenge
<nijaba> nope, but I thnk with sometime have things in common...
<soren> It sure would be nice if the fridge could get updated so ubotu could do the /topic thing to let you guys know that it's time to leave :)
 * RichEd moves back to #edubuntu
 * ogra_cmpc moves back to #edubuntu as well and points others there
 * nijaba waves at ogra_cmpc RichEd
<faulkes-> alright, I think we can call the meeting to order, etc..
<zul> hello
 * mathiaz thanks ogra_cmpc and RichEd and waves at the edubuntu team :)
 * RichEd waves back on his way out
<mathiaz> all right server team - let's get things started
<ScottK2> OK
<mathiaz> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 21:06. The chair is mathiaz.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<mathiaz> So the agenda for today is: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<mathiaz> akincer: are you around for some time ?
<akincer> For at least an hour
<akincer> more if need be
<mathiaz> akincer: ok.
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting.
<mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20080130
<mathiaz> I talked with dholbach about the mentoring program
<mathiaz> I was about to send an email to ubuntu-server with a proposal but it didn't reach the top of my todo list yet.
<faulkes-> ok
<mathiaz> I've got some ideas and will write down a proposal taking into account suggestion made by ScottK2, dholbach and other during the last meeting.
<mathiaz> [ACTION] mathiaz to send an email about the mentoring program proposal to ubuntu-server
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz to send an email about the mentoring program proposal to ubuntu-server
<mathiaz> I think all the other actions have been done
<ScottK> I need to follow up on mine
<mathiaz> and their results should be discussed during this meeting
<ScottK> OK.  I can do it later
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Bacula package inclusion/exclusion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Bacula package inclusion/exclusion
<mathiaz> So zul sent an email to ubuntu-server about bacula.
<mathiaz> zul: could you give a short list of the reason of the rejection ?
<zul> sure basically there a couple of reasons
<zul> 1. there were alot of unanswered bug reports from debian
<zul> 2. there were a couple of security updates that never got addressed by the debian maintainer until recently
<zul> 3. the number of depends it has in universe
<akincer> By couple, do you mean few?
<zul> to adress point #2 more in detail basically bacula uses the mysql passwords on the command line for processing data etc
<akincer> Couldn't resist :)
<nijaba> Aaron in ML: "isn't this a problem if and only if default and less secure (or bad) configurations are used and/or the database server powering Bacula is a shared system with non-trusted users?
<nijaba> "
<mathiaz> just to make things clear, the subject of this rejection is *not* to drop bacula from the ubuntu archive.
<mathiaz> bacula will still be available for ubuntu users.
<akincer> And my understanding is, and someone interject if it is flawed is that you only need to create a .my.cnf file to address the security issue. Couldn't be much simpler
<jdstrand> zul: how are those passwords sent-- shell script?
<zul> jdstrand: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=446809 for more detail
<ubotu> Debian bug 446809 in bacula-director-mysql "CVE-2007-5626 unauthorized disclosure of information via clear-text passwords used in command line arguments" [Important,Open]
<dendrobates> are passwords on the command line required?
<dvl> no
<ivoks> i think that can be overriden with better packaging
<ivoks> as someone said .my.cnf
<akincer> Since this is, in effect, an issue with how external programs interface with Mysql and not a product of Bacula itself, one need only read up on Mysql security to know that
<jdstrand> zul: thanks
<mathiaz> zul: IIUC the default installation of bacula would use clear text password
<zul> correct AFAIK
<dvl> mathiaz: only for database backup, not for anything else.
<mathiaz> zul: so to address the security concern, the bacula package should be modified to use a different way to handle passowrd.
<nijaba> is it dues to packaging or to logic?
<zul> correct
<nijaba> *due
<ivoks> packaging
<mathiaz> nijaba: it's a packaging issue.
<nijaba> can we fix it?
<ivoks> cause mysql knows about my.cnf
<ivoks> so, why not use it?
<akincer> Seems perfectly logical and prudent
<ivoks> maybe generate random password, put it in bacula's home and that's it
<nijaba> but in any case that leave 2 & 3.  Would they be enough all by themselves
<nijaba> ?
<zul> basically Im looking at ways to do that
<mathiaz> zul: great.
<mathiaz> so about point 2
<mathiaz> ah no point 2 is the security issue
<nijaba> err, meant 1 & 3
<mathiaz> point 1 is debian maintainer not responsive
<dvl> any other option to relying upon debian packages?
<mathiaz> zul: is the maintainer opened to ubuntu cooperation ?
<akincer> I am not in a position to address that, is anyone else?
<ScottK2> Unless someone on the team is willing to step up and really focus on this package.
<zul> mathiaz: yes he is
<nijaba> zul: so in what isn't he responsive?
<jdstrand> 1 and 2 are linked really
<zul> however since the package is in universe there hasnt been alot of interactioin between him and ubuntu developers
<dendrobates> regardless, it is unlikely that this will be worked out by FF.
<akincer> If I may, I believe it would be worth it. There are some very attractive features Bacula has that just work
<jdstrand> it sounds like if we wanted it, it would have to basically be maintained by ubuntu until the dm became more active
<mathiaz> a side question: Does MIR report need to be accepted before FF ?
<mathiaz> jdstrand: I don't think that the DM is not inactive.
<dendrobates> I believe so, but an exception can be requested.
<mathiaz> It's just that the way he works doesn't necessarly fit the ubuntu workflow.
<mathiaz> He tends to work on bugs by batch, every few months.
 * jdstrand equated lots of unanswered bug reports and slow security response with not super active, but doesn't know the dm of the package..
<jdstrand> (or the package)
<mathiaz> A point I'd like to add wrt to 1 is that bacula may be a good solution - so it may be worth taking some responsbility in maintaining the package
<nijaba> mathiaz: for 5 years?
<mathiaz> nijaba: it's that - or no solution at all
<akincer> mathiaz: I'm an IT Manager and I can tell you that for me, it's worth it
<nijaba> akincer: thanks for this...  very valuable
<mathiaz> nijaba: If we want to support tape backup, I don't see another package (except amanda)
<ivoks> well, does anyone does any serious backup without bacula? :)
<mathiaz> I've used both amanda and bacula and I was very satisfied with bacula
<nijaba> what about mondo? Have not had time to look...
<akincer> bacula does tapes just fine
<zul> ivoks: alot of people do
<mathiaz> nijaba: I'm not sure that mondo supports tape
<mathiaz> zul: well - you can always write you own script with tar
<ivoks> :)
<dendrobates> large shops will almost always use commercial products.
<mathiaz> But I think that bacula is a good solution if we want to support tapes.
<zul> mathiaz: that could work ;)
<nijaba> dendrobates: non FOSS oriented one, yes.
<akincer> mathiaz: Nice until someone asks for a file whose name they don't quite remember nor what folder it's in
<dendrobates> yes.  Legato and such
<soren> dendrobates: If they do so because they want to, fine. If they do it because we can't provide them with a free alternative, that makes me cry :(
<nijaba> soren: thanks :)
<mathiaz> akincer: you refer to tar scripts, right ?
<soren> dendrobates: I see what you're saying, but if we want to change that...
<akincer> yep
<tjaalton> bacula seems very interesting.. saying this as one who has purchased netvault years ago :)
<tjaalton> commercial ones are very expensive
<dendrobates> I'm not saying we don't need a F/OSS backup solution
<nijaba> I beleive we need both anyway, in the end
<mathiaz> so to keep things moving, what about point 3 - number of depends in universe
<mathiaz> ?
<mathiaz> zul: what's the list ?
<zul> mathiaz: at least 6
<akincer> I have yet to find a compelling reason to use a commercial backup package over Bacula and I've worked with several
<mathiaz> zul: or at least an overview
<zul> dbconfig qwt libraries wdwidgets sqllite sqllite3
<ivoks> mtx
<zul> these are the direct ones
<zul> mtx is already in main
<ivoks> oh, sorry
<mathiaz> akincer: agreed. My point is that point 1 could be addressed as - bacula is a good backup solution so it's worth investing time to support it and cooperate with debian.
<soren> zul: sqlite3 shouldbe in main, too.
<nijaba> is sqllite a hard requirement or an option?
<akincer> mathiaz: Gotcha. I figured the big issue would be deps anyway
<dvl> option
<mathiaz> nijaba: it's an option.
<soren> Oh, it's not.
<dvl> sqlite is used by default if you do not select one of MySQL/PostgreSQL
<soren> Ah, the source package is.
<mathiaz> you need a database to run bacula - and you can use mysql, postgresql or sqlite
<nijaba> so if it is an option, agin it is a packaging issue
<dendrobates> If we feel that this is that important, zul could work on this and we can get an exception to get it in after FF.
<mathiaz> nijaba: yes. dependencies are mostly packaging issues.
<dvl> QWT is only required for the GUI part of Bacula, BAT
<mathiaz> dvl: yes.
<mathiaz> so the GUI portion could stay in universe.
<dvl> full disclosure, I'm a Bacula developer.
<mathiaz> I've never used it
<akincer> and as I understand it, you can do that part on the desktop separate anyway
<dvl> correct
<akincer> BAT rocks
<mathiaz> zul: wdwidgets ?
<dendrobates> dvl: are you the debian mainrtainer
<dvl> dendrobates: no
<akincer> full disclosure: I invited him to make sure I didn't say something untrue
<zul> mathiaz: wxwidgets2.6
<mathiaz> zul: ok - that's also part of the GUI then.
<mathiaz> zul: but it may be needed to build the package.
<zul> correct..
<zul> we need to look at it more closely
<mathiaz> zul: yes
<ScottK> You may have to split the source package then.  I'm pretty sure you don't want wxwidgets in Main.
<dendrobates> dvl: you were included on the mail exchange though.  What is upstreams opinion here?
<mathiaz> and for dbconfig, it should be dropped.
<dvl> dendrobates: I was on that email.
<dvl> dendrobates: Upsteam opinion: we're keen to work with Ubuntu, we have lots of Ubuntu users and if there's anything I can do to push/prod/poke people to do stuff, let me know.  Not sure if that's the type of opinion you were asking for.
<mathiaz> So it seems that point 3 could be adressed by doing some packaging work.
<mathiaz> dvl: it's always good to have upstream opinions.
<nijaba> anyone up for it?
<mathiaz> jdstrand: do you have any question wrt to security/support for 5 years from upstream ?
<dendrobates> dvl: that is the one.  I wanted to know if you were willing to work with us to ensure our concerns are aleviated.
<dvl> mathiaz: If there are specific things you want an opinion on, ask me a direct question.  :)
<jdstrand> mathiaz: I have not reviewed the package
<mathiaz> jdstrand: I meant more about general policy
<zul> nijaba: i guess that would be me
<dvl> dendrobates: Yep, if anyone from ubuntu wants to email me directly, I can raise the issues with the rest of the Bacula team.  We're an easy going lot.
<jdstrand> I do have concerns about the debian maintainer not being particularly active, but interms of security updates, as long as upstream is responsive, then things should be ok
<akincer> I would also add that I have yet to go to #bacula with a question that wasn't answered pretty quickly
<mathiaz> dvl: how long do you tend to support an existing version ?
<dvl> jdstrand: Bugs in Bacula, whether security or not, are handled pretty quickly.
<nijaba> and how long for a given version?
<dvl> mathiaz: We started back porting bugs some time ago, but we prefer people to upgrade if they can.
<dvl> nijaba: no specific time period.
<nijaba> dvl: until next version or later?
<dvl> nijaba: later.
<tjaalton> dvl: what about running different versions on the network, like having an older server and clients with a newer bacula
<jdstrand> dvl: your bug tracking requires an account to view?
<dvl> tjaalton: policy is that older clients should always work with newer servers
<ralfgr> To view bug reports, you can log in as anonymous/anonymous.
<tjaalton> dvl: but not the other way around?
<dvl> jdstrand: anonymous/anonymous works
<jdstrand> dvl: :)
<dvl> tjaalton: a newer server will work with an older client so long as the server does not use the newer feature. This is under control of the sysadmin.
<tjaalton> dvl: I mean a newer client with an older server :)
<dvl> tjaalton: Noted.  Same issue.
<dvl> tjaalton: It'll work.
<tjaalton> ok, cool
<mathiaz> Ok. So to summarize
<mathiaz> it seems that the main problems are packaging issues
<dvl> tjaalton: what does not work is using a newer server with an older client and expecting the older client to understand new features.
<mathiaz> rather than an architectural or logic problem.
<ivoks> when is FF?
<nijaba> Feb 14
<nijaba> Valentine's day :)
<faulkes-> excuse the question, FF?
<nijaba> Feature Freeze
<zul> FF = feature freeze
 * faulkes- nods
<tjaalton> dvl: that's understandable, I was just concerned that the server usually run an older version so what would happen there
<dendrobates> mathiaz: we need to ensure that security fixes will be backported for a long enough time.
<faulkes-> thanks
<tjaalton> +s
<mathiaz> dendrobates: right.
<jdstrand> dendrobates, mathiaz: fwiw, there have been 2 CVEs-- one is the command line password
<akincer> Surely this can be arranged
<dendrobates> last FF was my wifes birthday, she is going to think I'm making excuses.
<dvl> tjaalton: usually it is the server that is upgraded more often than the client. My server is 2.2.8, my windows client is 2.0.3...
<ivoks> jdstrand: that last one we can eliminate...
<jdstrand> ivoks: exactly
<mathiaz> so any action on this ?
<akincer> dendrobates: That's why you arrange to celebrate on a different day without giving this as the reason :)
<ivoks> i'll work on bacula tonight
<mathiaz> someone needs to look at the packaging issues
 * soren hugs ivoks 
<ivoks> and try to fix couple of packaging bugs
<dvl> ivoks: contact me here if you need anything
<ivoks> including that mysql one
<dvl> or dan@langille.org
<dendrobates> ivoks: isn't it already night for you?
<tjaalton> dvl: heh
<ivoks> dendrobates: yeah, and i have exam tomorrow... but FF is to close
<mathiaz> [ACTION] ivoks to look into bacula packaging issue to get it into good shape for main
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ivoks to look into bacula packaging issue to get it into good shape for main
<dvl> tjaalton: server upgrade is just one box... people tend to lag on upgrading clients.
<jdstrand> the other one was patched in 13 days of discovery (insecure temp files)
<ivoks> dvl: ack
<mathiaz> ivoks: I think bacula needs to be merge from debian.
<zul> it does 2.2.8 is sitting there since the end of january
<mathiaz> ivoks: so you could try to address the mentionned issue while doing the merge
<ivoks> mathiaz: i'll take a good look at it
<mathiaz> ivoks: great ! thanks
<ScottK> ivoks: I'd also look to splitting the client and server into two source packages to minimize the number of build depends you need to drag into Main.
 * nijaba hugs ivoks
<mathiaz> Let's move on.
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Developer Week
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Developer Week
 * dendrobates gives ivoks permission to fail his exam.
<soren> Ok go.
<akincer> Thanks for the time everyone. I have to go do some work now
<ivoks> dendrobates: woho! :)
<mathiaz> As you may know, there will be a Ubuntu Developer Week soon.
<mathiaz> thanks akincer
<nijaba> thanks to the bacula guys :)
<dvl> :)
<mathiaz> so the question is whether we want to have a session specific to the server team
<mathiaz> if so, what would be the content ?
<nijaba> when is it?
<mathiaz> the current schedule is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek/Prep
<mathiaz> 18/02 to 22/02
<akincer> mathiaz: You're welcome
<mathiaz> I wouldn't mind running a session, but I'd like to have some input on what I can talk about.
<nijaba> soren: would a virtualization class be a good topic for devs?
<soren> nijaba: I hope so. I scheduled one.
<mathiaz> I don't think the topic should be about packaging server application.
<faulkes-> well, from a content view, I'd have to ask, how familiar are people with the server side of ubuntu
<nijaba> duh
<sommer> mathiaz: how about upcoming features?
<soren> nijaba: dendrobates promised he'd help me come up with stuff to talk about.
<ivoks> maybe one about ubuntu-server in general?
<ivoks> we need some publicity :)
<zul> mathiaz: how about an intro to the server team
<nijaba> soren: I can second him on this
<faulkes-> that was my thinking
<mathiaz> ivoks: right.
<dendrobates> one on security would be nice.
<mathiaz> about feature, I don't think it's relevant as the target audience is about potential contributors
<mathiaz> it's not about users.
<sommer> ah, good call
<mathiaz> so presenting new features is not really the point.
<mathiaz> unless to get people on board for testing.
<faulkes-> well, intro to ubuntu-server, goals/objectives, team members, etc
<nijaba> what about one on OpenLDAP 2.4?
<mathiaz> soren: what do you plan to talk about during your virtualization session ?
<ivoks> i suggest an insight in how development is done, where we need help, what are we good... it would be great if all of us could come...
<mathiaz> nijaba: you mean - using it ?
<soren> Don't know.
<soren> 22:51:15 < soren> nijaba: dendrobates promised he'd help me come up with stuff to talk about.
<soren> :)
<mathiaz> soren: what about using the new virtualization stuff in hardy in your developement work ?
<dendrobates> I think we need kvm testers, so one thing would be a kvm tutorial using libvirt and virtio.
<boredandblogging> someone email me when plans are finalized so I can put it in the UWN
<mathiaz> soren: how to use different vm to have different distro ready to use
<soren> That could work.
<mathiaz> soren: for bug triaging, feature development and package testing.
<nijaba> we need some test on ubuntu-vm-builder as well :)
<soren> Let's discuss this after the meeting. We don't want to reveal all of it now.
<soren> Noone will show up.
<dendrobates> boredandblogging: you want to know what our topics are?
<boredandblogging> dendrobates: looking at the prep wiki page, just a paragraph summary on the purpose and who should attend would be great
<nxvl_work> oh crap i forgot the meeting
<mathiaz> boredandblogging: you man wanna ask dholbach about this
<mathiaz> boredandblogging: he is the grand master of ceremony for the whole week
<dendrobates> guys, I have to go.
<ivoks> dendrobates: take care
 * mathiaz waves at dendrobates 
<soren> dendrobates: o/
<dendrobates> Ok, sÃ¦t i gang!
<soren> :)
<faulkes-> mathiaz: how comfortable do you feel with ivoks suggested topics, I think they are fairly good ones to address
<faulkes-> both from a presentation pov but also a bit of publicity to get others involved
<mathiaz> faulkes-: yes - A general introduction to the server team
<mathiaz> the whole point of the week is to get more people onboard.
<ivoks> right
<ivoks> so don't give talks about stuff we did
<ivoks> but about stuff we need and didn't do
<ivoks> :)
<mathiaz> So my initial thoughts was to go over the GettingInvolved and Roadmpa pages and answer question
<boredandblogging> mathiaz: sure, I'll email dholbach
<mathiaz> And maybe by that time, we'll have something for mentoring.
<nxvl_work> i think it would be a great place to introduce the mentoring program, if we have one planed by the date
<mathiaz> [ACTION] mathiaz will schedule a general session about ubuntu-server during the Ubuntu Developer week.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz will schedule a general session about ubuntu-server during the Ubuntu Developer week.
<nijaba> thanks for taking care of it mathiaz
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Review each section of the ServerTeam/Roadmap.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review each section of the ServerTeam/Roadmap.
<faulkes-> I'm more than happy to review material you want to present, as a new person to the group, I can probably give some good suggestions on what you write up
<faulkes-> mathiaz: if that's of interest to you prior to your presentation
<mathiaz> faulkes-: excellent. I'll ping you somehow.
<mathiaz> faulkes-: I was about to ask you about the mentoring program also - but that's for later.
<mathiaz> On the apache front,
<mathiaz> apache 2.2.8 has been synced from debian.
<mathiaz> I talked to slangasek about building openssl with tlsext enabled. It's seems to need some work
<mathiaz> and needs to be coordinated with debian.
<mathiaz> so I'm not sure we'll get it done before FF
<nijaba> tood bad for SNI :(
<mathiaz> without it, SNI cannot be enabled in apache2.
<mathiaz> so I think we'll have to defer SNI support for apache2 to the next release.
<nijaba> right...
<mathiaz> there are around 490 packages that would need to be rebuilt we need to transition openssl
<soren> ...if we bump the soname.
<mathiaz> ivoks: state of SASL ?
<mathiaz> soren: right. There are some disscussion whether this is required or not.
<ivoks> mathiaz: i got feedbeck from lamont
<ivoks> mathiaz: i suggest we wrap it up and patch the tasksel
<mathiaz> soren: but I don't think we'll have time before FF
<ivoks> mathiaz: i don't recommend patching postfix's init script
<soren> mathiaz: I would even say that I'm quite sure we won't have time before FF.
<mathiaz> ivoks: so we'd use a postinst script in the mail server task in tasksel.
<ivoks> mathiaz: right
<mathiaz> ivoks: do you have something ready for this ?
<ivoks> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10629598/tasksel.diff
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10629598/tasksel.diff
<ivoks> it's maybe old
<ivoks> but basicaly, that's it
<ivoks> changes include postfix with sasl over dovecot, maildir and tweaked dovecot and postfix for better compatibility
<lamont> (sounds right)
<mathiaz> ivoks: great. Have you checked wether the patch applies to the current version of tasksel ?
<ivoks> mathiaz: no, i'll do that tonight
<ivoks> could someone apply it before it gets outdated again? :D
<mathiaz> ivoks: great. Could you attach the new patch to the bug and subscribe u-main-sponsor ?
<ivoks> sure
<mathiaz> ivoks: well - it will to get in before FF, which is one week
<mathiaz> [ACTION]: ivoks to update the tasksel patch for SASL support
<MootBot> ACTION received: : ivoks to update the tasksel patch for SASL support
<mathiaz> ScottK: how far is libdb4.2 from being dropped from the archive ?
<ScottK> Hu
<ScottK> Hi even
<ScottK> It's not.
<ScottK> openldap still needs it
<ScottK> It's looking more like Hardy +1.
<ScottK> 4.3, 4.4, and maybe 4.5 are reasonable targets.
<mathiaz> ScottK: right - it's blocked on openldap working with db4.6.
<ScottK> So I'm going to update the wiki page to look at those instead.
<ScottK> Exactly.
<mathiaz> ScottK: excellent !
<ScottK> The other blocker I've run into is libdb4.x-ruby
<ScottK> The upstream for that only supports up to 4.4.
<ScottK> I've uploaded a libdb4.6-ruby which is in bin new right now.
<mathiaz> [ACTION] ScottK to update the Roadmap to list db4.3, 4.4 and 4.5 as targets for archive removal.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ScottK to update the Roadmap to list db4.3, 4.4 and 4.5 as targets for archive removal.
<ScottK> It works in my testing equivalently to 4.3/4.4 except transactions.
<mathiaz> ScottK: so 4.3 and 4.5 are good candidates ?
<ScottK> And 4.4
<ScottK> I haven't done a detailed analysis yet of all of them 4.3 looks totally doable.
<mathiaz> ScottK: ah ok. Understood.
<mathiaz> ScottK: how does this play with FF ?
<ScottK> I don't think it does.
<mathiaz> ScottK: great. So work on this can be done after FF.
<ScottK> Yes.
<mathiaz> ScottK: great ! Thanks for the update.
<ScottK> For the Ruby situation, my thought is we keep libdb4.2-ruby and libdb4.6.  If anything pops up needing transaction support, they can use the 4.2 one.
<ScottK> Hopefully upstream will get sorted for hardy +1 so the 4.2 ruby lib can go away then too.
<mathiaz> sommer: how is the domentation doing ?
<sommer> mathiaz: pretty much the same as before
<sommer> new upgrading subsection :)
<mathiaz> sommer: great. How are you affected by FF ?
<sommer> may need to get exceptions for the virtualization section, likewise-open integration, and bacula
<sommer> I wouldn't think that would bee too much of an issue
<sommer> I'll email the doc ml and see what the think
<mathiaz> sommer: so there is the same kind of freeze on documentation starting from next thursday ?
<sommer> mathiaz: yep
<mathiaz> sommer: ok. good.
<nijaba> sommer: isn't your milestone string freeze?
<sommer> major new sections anyway
<sommer> nijaba: mathew east proposed the new freeze schedule to help conentrate on qa
<nijaba> sommer: thanks
<mathiaz> soren: any update on the virtualization front ?
<sommer> here are some more details: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/ReleaseSchedule
<soren> Yeah, I think I've managed to work out the last dependency I need for it to really shine.
<soren> Now it just needs to land in the repository so I can start using it.
<soren> Namely a usable version of dnsmasq and netcat.
<soren> The former for providing DNS and DHCP services to virtual networks (yay), and the latter to enable qemu+ssh:// type URL's for libvirt. *Very* handy.
<ivoks> very nice!
<mathiaz> soren: seems great. And all should get in before FF ?
<soren> mathiaz: All should get in before I stop working tomorrow.
<mathiaz> soren: once it's in there, virtualization should be feature complete for hardy.
<nijaba> ubuntu-vm-builder is feature complete on my side.  I've checked in a new version to allow complex partitioning.
<mathiaz> nijaba: awesome.
<soren> mathiaz: Great!
<nijaba> I hope soren can find 1 day to integrate before FF
<mathiaz> Seems like all of the virtualization stuff is ready for more widespread testing
<mathiaz> which other channels can we use to ask for more testing ?
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 07 Feb 16:00 UTC: Fridge Editors | 13 Feb 22:30 UTC: Forum Council | 15 Feb 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 20 Feb 01:00 UTC: TriLoCo-Midwest
<soren> Planet ubuntu usually does the trick.
<mathiaz> we've published something in UWN
<nijaba> We need VMWare ESX testers
<mathiaz> soren: may you could post another blog entry to make it on planet ubuntu ?
<soren> mathiaz: That's what I meant :)
<mathiaz> soren: ahh. I thought you were refering to your previous post.
<soren> Oh. No :)
<mathiaz> soren: And I think that your session during Ubuntu Dev Week can also be used to adverstise more testing.
<soren> Right.
<tjaalton> nijaba: you mean installing on an ESX virtual machine?
<soren> Yes.
<nijaba> tjaalton: yes
<mathiaz> soren: and making sure that the release notes have a section about it.
<soren> Yes, that has been neglected :(
<tjaalton> ok, we have maybe 80 hosts running on ESX (mostly RHEL, Win), and I have a couple of hosts with dapper.. could try hardy now
<nijaba> tjaalton: would be very kind of you
<tjaalton> it's been on my list anyway
<nijaba> tjaalton: specially JeOS
<mathiaz> [ACTION] tjaalton to test hardy on vmware ESX
<MootBot> ACTION received:  tjaalton to test hardy on vmware ESX
<tjaalton> :)
<ivoks> now you have to do it :D
<mathiaz> next topic: windows integration
 * nijaba needs to run.  Thanks a lot everyone
<tjaalton> aww jeez
<tjaalton> :)
<soren> Yeah, you don't want to mess with MootBot.
<soren> nijaba: See you tomorrow.
<ivoks> nijaba: bye
<mathiaz> dendrobates has been packaging it
<mathiaz> zul and I've started to review it
 * nijaba waves 
<sommer> later nijaba
<ivoks> mathiaz: is it good? :)
<mathiaz> so it should be uploaded real soon now.
 * mathiaz waves back at nijaba 
<mathiaz> ivoks: so far yes.
<mathiaz> ivoks: but I still need to get it tested in windows environment.
<mathiaz> so I think that's all for the Roadmpa.
<ivoks> umm...
<ivoks> one more thing
<ivoks> raid-lvm integration
<mathiaz> ivoks: yes. it's still on there.
<ivoks> as you can see, i didn't do a thing about it
<mathiaz> ivoks: right - you've been busy with other things
<ivoks> but i do know there is a package in universe
<ivoks> partman-auto-raid
<ivoks> so it should get into main, and then only thing needed is a recipe
<mathiaz> ivoks: so the next step would be to write a MIR
<ivoks> so if someone know partman recipes, please... *help* :)
<mathiaz> ivoks: could you update the roadmap to add a list of things to needs to be done ?
<tjaalton> ivoks: has the recipe format changed? IIRC it has been totally different from the normal format
<ivoks> mathiaz: sure
<ivoks> tjaalton: i didn't even know there's a 'normal format' :)
<tjaalton> ivoks: ok :)
<jdstrand> I'll also mention that I wrote the MIR for ufw today
<mathiaz> [ACTION] ivoks to update the Roadmap wrt the RAID1-LVM installation
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ivoks to update the Roadmap wrt the RAID1-LVM installation
<ivoks> uf... so many actions...
<mathiaz> jdstrand: have you received more feedback about ufw ?
<jdstrand> yes
<jdstrand> couple of small things that I fixed
<jdstrand> and I also finished ipv6
<jdstrand> feedback so far has been positive
<mathiaz> jdstrand: great ! So that another feature almost completed for hardy.
<jdstrand> it should work well-- I find it quite easy to use :)
<ivoks> there are rumors we'll have to go with ipv6 by the end of 2012
<mathiaz> jdstrand: well... you wrote it - I hope so
<jdstrand> ;P
<ivoks> is hardy ready for that?
<jdstrand> ivoks: in terms of firewalling, yes
<ivoks> i meant more generally...
<mathiaz> ivoks: well - that's a rather broad question.
<jdstrand> (I figured, I was just being silly)
<mathiaz> ivoks: the kernel should support it.
<soren> ivoks: I've never used it, but I'm also not aware of anything in particular blocking it?
<jdstrand> it does
<mathiaz> ivoks: but I'm sure that are some application that are not
<ivoks> i know that kernel does support it, but as mathiaz said, some apps don't
<jdstrand> I am pretty sure all our server apps do
<soren> IIRC fabbione has been caring for ipv6 since the very beginning.
<jdstrand> OTOH
<ivoks> well, we can fix them during the release...
<jdstrand> (ie the ones on the server cd and tasksel)
<ivoks> then just ignore me :D
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Any Other Business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any Other Business
<mathiaz> someone wants to add something ?
<ScottK2> Debian servers support IPv6 well, so we should be in good shape.
<tjaalton> well, what about the patch for libpam-ldap?-)
<ScottK2> mathiaz: MIR processing seems to have stalled.
<mathiaz> ScottK2: pitti said he should start doing it next week
<ivoks> zul: could you please tell me the state of drbd in hardy?
<ivoks> zul: as a kernel module
<mathiaz> ivoks: it's integrated in linux-ubuntu-modules
<ScottK2> mathiaz: OK.  I'm a little worried about the state of tasksel and FF.  We still have more mail server work to do.
<ivoks> it is? teriffic
<ivoks> then i'll write up mir for drbd-utils
<mathiaz> ivoks: it's been the case for a few weeks now.
<ivoks> (i'm not running hardy on any of my machines :)
<mathiaz> ivoks: you should ;)
<ivoks> upgrading as we speek :)
<tjaalton> ivoks: join us, dogfood is good :)
<mathiaz> ScottK2: ivoks is planning to update the patch to integrate dovecot and postifx.
<ivoks> we could extend it to amavis... but that could be maybe too much, cause of FF
<ScottK> Right.  I'd like to see about integrating amavisd-new too, but until the MIR is done ....
<ScottK2> Yes.  My exact concern
<mathiaz> well on this point, we'll have to wait for amavis to get included into main.
<ivoks> right
<faulkes-> question, MIR?
<ivoks> main inclusion report
<mathiaz> faulkes-: Main Inclusion Report
 * faulkes- nods
<faulkes-> thanks
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time.
<mathiaz> So - to finish - same time, same place next week ?
<faulkes-> sounds good to me
<ivoks> ack
<tjaalton> mathiaz: should I just upload a new libpam-ldap with that patch, or?
<faulkes-> that puts it day before FF?
<mathiaz> tjaalton: could you send you email to ubuntu-devel ?
<tjaalton> sure
<mathiaz> faulkes-: yes
<tjaalton> more eyes
<mathiaz> tjaalton: exactly
 * faulkes- nods
<mathiaz> Next week, same time, same place.
<mathiaz> Thanks all for joining.
 * jdstrand waves
<mathiaz> Have a good week - see ya around :)
<jdstrand> thanks mathiaz!
<mathiaz> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 22:58.
<ivoks> fin
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-02-07
<johnc4510-laptop> !schedule
<ubotu> Ubuntu releases a new version every 6 months. Each version is supported for 18 months to 5 years. More info at http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/releases & http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeBasedReleases
 * pitti waves hello
 * tedg waves back
<pedro_> hello all :-)
<pitti> Padre! erm, Pedro!
 * Hobbsee waves the Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! â¢ around in greeting
<Riddell> hi
<pitti> Hobbsee: hey, take care where you wave this thing at
 * pitti rubs his knee
 * Hobbsee tickles pitti wiht it
<Hobbsee> heh :)
 * mvo waves
<Keybuk> Good afternoon all
<Keybuk> ok, that's everyone :-)
<Keybuk> i've put the agenda together here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2008-02-07
<Keybuk> did I miss any items in people's reports?
<seb128> yeah
<MacSlow> greetings
<seb128> ups
<seb128> hey
<Keybuk> we have a few action points from the last meeting to run through
<Keybuk> mvo: talk to Colin about using germinate to determine length of package support (3/5 years, 18 months)
<mvo> I asked colin about it, but got no reply yet, I will ask again
<Keybuk> ok, I will nag in my phone call with Colin after this meeting
<mvo> if the rules are straightforward (i.e. server seed = 5y, desktop seed 3y, everything else in main 18m) then I can probably get this done myself
<mvo> its just that I'm not sure if that is the official policy
<pitti> e. g. what will we do about langpacks?
<pitti> they are in main, but not in desktop, and it's not immediately clear how long we want to provide updates
<pitti> 3 years, I guess
<Keybuk> Canonical provides free maintenance for Ubuntu products as follows:
<Keybuk>  * Ubuntu Desktop, Kubuntu Desktop, Ubuntu Server:
<Keybuk>    Security updates and select bug fixes (18 months)
<Keybuk>  * Ubuntu Desktop LTS:
<Keybuk>    Security updates and select bug fixes (3 years)
<Keybuk>  * Ubuntu Server LTS:
<Keybuk>    Hardware compatibility updates (until next LTS)
<Keybuk>    Security updates and select bug fixes (5 years)
<Keybuk> pitti: a very interesting point, we have never considered langpacks in maintenance terms before
<pitti> our practice is that we continue to upload dapper packs now, i. e. past the 18 months
<pitti> since they are mostly relevant for desktops, 3 years seems appropriate to me
<Keybuk> I've raised that with mdz and Steve George
<Keybuk> mvo: mail u-devel@ about improving u-n to warn about universe packages with known security holes
<pitti> that happened
<pitti> not a lot of replies yet, though
 * pitti promises to reply in the next days
 * mvo sent it a bit late *cough*
<Keybuk> ok, deleted from the list
<Keybuk> seb128: talk to Scott for updating pppoeconf-gui spec status for the feature provided by gnome-system-tools
<seb128> I didn't ;-)
<seb128> Keybuk: g-s-t does pppoe configuration now
<Keybuk> does that mean it can be considered implemented?
<seb128> so should the spec be deprecated or implemented?
<seb128> yes
<pitti> Status: implemented-through-the-backdoor :)
<Keybuk> I'd just say Implemented :-)
<seb128> good
<seb128> thanks ;-)
<Keybuk> tedg: talk to Scott and Mark about screensaver-review; this is currently way too underdefined for getting it into hardy
<tedg> I'm not sure that was captured quite right, I e-mailed the maintainer from Debian, and he didn't have any ideas for splitting things out.
<tedg> It seems like "arbitrary" is the only way to split out screensavers.
<tedg> (besides the obviously GL and non-GL)
<Keybuk> I assume we want to split into "ones we like" and "ones we don't" ?
<tedg> Yes, the "we" and "like" are the problem :)
<kwwii> couldn't we split them according to what they show somehow?
<MacSlow> everything that's not GL is for the bin
<tedg> kwwii: What do you mean?
<tedg> MacSlow: heh
<MacSlow> I don't recall any non-GL screensaver to be worth keeping
<kwwii> tedg: like, spinning, flipping, rotating things in one group
<Keybuk> this clearly needs some more discussion
<kwwii> zooming, panning, scrolling in another, etc.
<Keybuk> tedg: can you start a thread on ubuntu-desktop to begin the discussion?
<tedg> Keybuk: Yeah, I'll put a list in so people can comment inline.
<Keybuk> that would be great
<tedg> Funny how the stupid things are difficult. :)
<Keybuk> ok
<pitti> MacSlow: we still need to keep the 'just black' one for laptops on battery mode :)
<Keybuk> Riddell: from your activity summary, you're still blocked on KDE 4 seed changes?
<Riddell> Keybuk: yes
<Keybuk> Riddell: ok, I'll raise that with Colin
<Riddell> thanks
<MacSlow> pitti, agreed
<Keybuk> ok, first agenda item
<Keybuk> mvo: dapper->hardy kernel upgrades. A lot of people will have 386 kernels installed on their system. I would propose to transition those to the -generic on dapper->hardy if "uname -m" returns i586 or i686.
<pitti> MacSlow: and shouldn't we keep at least some for people who don't have GL working?
<mvo> any comments on this?
<Keybuk> mvo: did we install -386 by default on dapper, or did people get it by some other means?
<tedg> pitti: We offer a "free visit from MacSlow to fix your computer" :)
<pitti> lol
<mvo> I'm not 100% sure what the mechanism was, but on a lot of machines I have seen -386 is installed. I think the default was picked by the installer
<MacSlow> pitti, tedg: I would suggest the list-split like: "uses GL", "uses core rendering", "uses Xrender/cairo"
<soren> mvo: You could yank out the logic from the installer and use that to determine which new kernel to install?
<pitti> we don't build an -i386 flavor at all any more?
<mvo> we still have -386, but it build uni processor for example
<mvo> its a different -386 that we used to have in dapper, in dapper it was more what -generic is now
<pitti> oh, we do
<mvo> soren: right, that should work
<Keybuk> there's -386, -generic, -rt, -server, -virtual
<Keybuk> -386 being "crappy hardware" rather than default
<mvo> in dapper there was -686 too, but that one is easy -> -generic
<mvo> we also had -lowlatency in between, but that -generic now too
<Keybuk> I'd blacklist for the update, not whitelist
<Keybuk> ie. update for not i386 or i486 ?
<mvo> the only concern I have is that going from -386 to -generic may break the crappy hardware
<mvo> the whitelist idea sounds good too
<soren> The installer already has the logic to determine the most suitable kernel for a given cpu. Why not use it? If it's good enough at isntall time, it should be good enough at upgrade time, shouldn't it?
<mvo> popcon say we have 14354 systems with -386 and 380916 with -generic
<Keybuk> that's an interesting point
<Keybuk> is the logic complex?
<mvo> I will check
<soren> WEll...
<soren> It's not *completely* straigtforward, but it's robust.
<soren> and *quite* well tested :)
<mvo> is this still true with the live-cd?
<Keybuk> it seems that automatically migrating via some logic is a consensus
<mvo> or does that copy the live-cd kernel?
<Keybuk> mvo: live cd just uses -generic
<Keybuk> (I think)
<mvo> I think so too
<soren> mvo: The logic in the installer takes two things into account:
<soren> The set of kernels it has available, and what your CPU supports. If the installation in question only has the generic kernel, it'll obviously go with that.
<pitti> yeah, we only ship one kernel nowadays
<soren> I'm not sure which kernels are on the cd, but given their size and the struggle to minimize the iso's...
<mvo> ok, I will check it out, thanks for the suggestions
<pitti> soren: IIRC we have stopped shipping multiple kernels on CDs ages ago
<soren> pitti: Sounds plausible :)
<ogra_cmpc> edubuntu was the only exception until gutsy
<pitti> soren: just confirmed by checking .manifest and .list
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> FOSSCamp and UDS Sponsorship proposals
<Keybuk> the deadline for all of these has passed, did everybody update the wiki pages?
 * mvo did
<pitti> mine were all stolen from Jorge :)
<Riddell> where is the UDS wiki page?
<Keybuk> https://wiki.canonical.com/UDS-Prague-Sponsorships
<seb128> Keybuk: jorge put the GNOME guys name on the fosscamp list and I'm not sure if they should also be on the uds one
<Keybuk> https://wiki.canonical.com/Fosscamp-Prague-Sponsorships
<seb128> desrt, vuntz, gicmo that is
<Keybuk> they seem to be logical UDS candidates to me
<seb128> good
<Keybuk> does anyone have any last-minute additions they want to make to either list?
<kwwii> Keybuk: I would like to find some art-related people but i am not sure who atm
<MacSlow> seb128, Keybuk: one of the core-devs behind clutter also sounds like a good idea to invite
<mvo> Richard Hughes probably too
<mvo> (if he is not on the list already)
<Keybuk> MacSlow: do you have a proposal for which one?
<Keybuk> mvo: FOSSCamp or UDS?
<MacSlow> Keybuk, thinking about that for some days know
<seb128> MacSlow: that's a wiki page, feel free to edit ;-)
<mvo> Keybuk: fosscamp
<Keybuk> mvo: add him to the wiki page
<MacSlow> seb128, I know :)
<Keybuk> mvo, MacSlow: compiz people for UDS too?
 * mvo adds him
<Keybuk> tedg: can you think of anyone to talk about session management with?
<Keybuk> Riddell: are the KDE people on the UDS list now?
<MacSlow> Keybuk, yes... I would suggest to try to ask David Reveman (Novell or not) for a change
<kwwii> Cory K should be invited
<Riddell> Keybuk: no, hang on
<mvo> Keybuk: I added Travis there and I second the suggestion of MacSlow
<Keybuk> MacSlow: -> wiki
<Keybuk> kwwii: -> wiki
<Keybuk> please get any changes done by 1600 UTC today (ie within the next 1h20)
<kwwii> right
<Keybuk> FOSSCamp team attendance
<Keybuk> There's no requirement that staff members attend both FOSSCamp and UDS this year
<Keybuk> who did not find it useful last year?
<kwwii> I personally did not find it amazingly interesting
<Keybuk> (this will probably largely depend on which sponsored people come to fosscamp, and which to UDS, of course)
<pitti> if David Zeuthen and Lennart Poettering come to FossCamp, I'll be there, too
<Keybuk> I guess from the silence, most people would still like to participate? :)
<seb128> right, depends on who is coming
 * mvo nods
<pitti> last time wasn't terribly effective for me, but it was still enjoyable to be around
<seb128> same for me
<seb128> vuntz, desrt and gicmo were there during the uds too and we had enough time during the week to discuss
<seb128> depends of the people who are coming only for fosscamp and not uds
 * tedg wasn't there for FOSS Camp last year so can't really comment.
<Keybuk> *nods*
 * MacSlow thinks FOSSCamp was good... but not enough Xorg/graphics folks around
<Mithrandir> I found it useful in a relationship-building way, which is a bit hard to quantify.
<Keybuk> MacSlow: do you have specific people you'd like us to invite or sponsor --> wiki :-)
<MacSlow> Keybuk, I'm just doing that right now
<Mithrandir> meet up with people, have some random discussion on projects, pick up on clues on interesting projects, etc.
<pitti> ^ me 2
<Keybuk> *nods*
<seb128> right, which depends on who is coming
<seb128> so not easy to say now if that will be useful or not
<Mithrandir> it also makes it so much easier to talk with people on IRC and email later, since they then know you a bit.
<Keybuk> I'll chat to the leads about this in my call, and see if we can come to some kind of consensus
<pitti> even talking to ourselves is well worth it IMHO :)
<Keybuk> UDS sessions - likewise now is the time to think about things to talk about at UDS
<Keybuk> this is obviously the things you'd like to tackle for 8.10
<mvo> MacSlow: are you still editing the wiki or is the lock stale?
<Keybuk> Riddell: for you, this should come from the whole of the Kubuntu community
<Keybuk> kwwii: likewise, this should come from the whole of the Art community
<MacSlow> mvo, yes... collecting corret email-addresses of people I added
<Keybuk> I'd like a draft list by this meeting next week if possible
<Keybuk> that'll allow us to make an early public announcement with possible topics
<Keybuk> before we go into the detail of scheduling, etc.
<pitti> Keybuk: i. e. you want to collect ideas from us what to break^Wdevelop in 8.10?
<Keybuk> pitti: exactly
<tedg> Do you want a list or blueprints?
<Keybuk> tedg: just a list
<Keybuk> sentence or paragraph per item, depending how wordy you want to be
<Keybuk> UDS details I know:
<tedg> Keybuk: How long is mpt on leave?  Will he have time before next week's meeting?
<Keybuk>  * it will be in Prague
<Keybuk>  * Mon 19th to Fri 23rd of May
<Keybuk>  * FOSSCamp is at the same location on Friday 16th and Saturday 17th of May
<Keybuk>  * Hotel conference area is a little bit larger than Boston
<Keybuk>  * Sessions will be tracked again, and Desktop will have its own room
<pitti> oh, Sunday is free this time?
<Keybuk>  * Schedule will be fixed before the conference; there are 2-4 spare rooms for "break out" sessions that can be scheduled ad-hoc
<Keybuk> pitti: yeah
<pitti> tracked> ah, good; the scheduling was excellent last time, that should be kept
<Keybuk> that's about the key details that I know
<Keybuk> oh, there's a fitness centre on the 25th floor of the hotel with nice views -- and a pool
<Keybuk> but the pool apparently has a "per person" charge to gain access to use, but does allegedly have a spectacular view over the city
<pitti> that sounds great
<Keybuk> ok, Any other Business
<kwwii> Keybuk: can you get the OOo icons sorted?
<Keybuk> kwwii: -v ?
<kwwii> Keybuk: calc needs to find the time to put them in bzr
<Keybuk> kwwii: I'll ask Colin
<kwwii> great, thanks
<pedro_> i have a quick one
<Keybuk> pitti: I already have mpt's list ;)  mostly because he was in the office on Monday when I was
<Keybuk> pedro_: shoot
<pedro_> since brasero and transmission are part of the default release i just want to know who'll be the bug contact for that products
<mvo> MacSlow: ok, please let me know why  you are done
<seb128> pedro_: desktop bugs?
<MacSlow> mvo, sure
<seb128> pedro_: I think there is brasero upstream guys looking to launchpad but I'm not sure
<mvo> MacSlow: eh, s/why/when/ of course :)
<pedro_> seb128: ok, cool
<seb128> quick one too
<Keybuk> seb128: yup
<seb128> does anybody has an opinion on dropping the add-to-panel ubuntu change?
<Keybuk> seb128: what was our change?
<seb128> that's not trivial code change and obviously upstream it not going to take it now
<mvo> what does the upstream one look like?
<seb128> Keybuk: upstream has a list and we have a canvas
<mvo> one bit list with a single entry per applet?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> http://www.techotopia.com/images/d/df/Fedora_gnome_add_to_panel.jpg
<pitti> Keybuk: "mpt's list"?
 * Keybuk has no objection to either
<mvo> hm, I think I like ours better, but then I don't want to maintain the fork :)
<pitti> seb128: where does our sorting by category come from?
<pitti> that seems to be much clearer
<Keybuk> seb128: I guess formally we should ask mpt when he's back
<pitti> i. e. do the applets provide the category on their own?
<seb128> pitti: we patch applets .server to add categories
<seb128> pitti: they don't upstream, we do add those for common ones but not for everything in the universe
<kwwii> seb128: personally, I like the list better
<kwwii> and it will look much better with the 2D icons :-)
<seb128> one of the reason vuntz didn't want the change is that he things categories are confusing
<seb128> he nevers know in which category to look
<MacSlow> mvo, done
<seb128> and I've to admit I quite often look to several categories to find something
<mvo> MacSlow: thanks
<seb128> Keybuk: ok, asking mpt seems to be a good idea, I'll do that
<MacSlow> Keybuk, if you want to take a look -> https://wiki.canonical.com/Fosscamp-Prague-Sponsorships
<Keybuk> ok, thanks all
<pitti> thanks guys, rock on
<mvo> thanks all
<seb128> thanks
 * MacSlow needs sleep
<MacSlow> :/
<pedro_> thanks
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Fridge Editors Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 13 Feb 22:30 UTC: Forum Council | 15 Feb 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 20 Feb 01:00 UTC: TriLoCo-Midwest
<Rinchen> howdy howdy
<boredandblogging> hello
<Rinchen> Think we have 2 minutes before start time if the clocks are correct
<Rinchen> @schedule now
<Rinchen> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: Current meeting: Fridge Editors 13 Feb 22:30: Forum Council | 15 Feb 04:00: MOTU | 20 Feb 01:00: TriLoCo-Midwest
<Rinchen> well
<Rinchen> #startmeeting
<Rinchen> and nothing happens :-)
<boredandblogging> heh
<Rinchen> that would be due to the absence of mootbot
<Rinchen> Ok, the old fashion way then
<Rinchen> Hello everyone. Welcome to the Fridge Editors IRC meeting.
<Rinchen> Today's Agenda:
<Rinchen> 1) Updating the ubuntu wiki (Rinchen)
<Rinchen> 2) Rejuv plan (Rinchen)
<Rinchen> 3) Common email submission between fridge and UWN (Rinchen, Corey)  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuNews
<Rinchen> 4) Possible new theme (Corey)
<Rinchen> 5) How can we write news that doesn't always regurgitate other websites? (nixternal)
<Rinchen> First up, Roll Call!
<Rinchen> me :-)
 * boredandblogging waves
<Rinchen> ping beuno
<Rinchen> ping sladen
<Rinchen> ping nixternal
<Rinchen> well, this might be a short meeting boredandblogging
<boredandblogging> lol
<boredandblogging> awesome
<Rinchen> I don't see Corey either....
<Rinchen> there's mrevell
<mrevell> Hi!
<boredandblogging> hi mrevell
<mrevell> hey boredandblogging
<Rinchen> well, if you guys are ok with it, I'll wait 5 minutes to see if Corey, Martin, Vid, and others join
<mrevell> yeah, np
<boredandblogging> yeah
<Rinchen> odd, we did get confirmation from a few folks that they would be here
<Rinchen> well, while we wait, if any lurkers want to ask Fridge questions, feel free.
<mrevell> Yeah, Corey and Rich said they'd be
<mrevell> here
<Rinchen> mrevell,  that link I sent you if for the original Fridge improvement doc.  There are some outdating items on it.
<Rinchen> I was thinking of removing those and using that as the replacement for the improvement ideas on the wiki
 * mrevell looking
 * sladen looks around
<Rinchen> this was the internal draft at using django which we decided against
<Rinchen> and kept drupal
<Rinchen> hi sladen - it looks like we're missing corey and a few others so I guess I'll call it... and say we'll cancel the meeting due to lack of attendance.
<Rinchen> I'll continue the discussion on #ubuntu-fridge mrevell
<Rinchen> Channel is free...
<boredandblogging> ok
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Fridge Editors Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 09 Feb 11:00 UTC: Kubuntu Developers | 13 Feb 22:30 UTC: Forum Council | 15 Feb 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 20 Feb 01:00 UTC: TriLoCo-Midwest
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 09 Feb 11:00 UTC: Kubuntu Developers | 13 Feb 22:30 UTC: Forum Council | 15 Feb 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 20 Feb 01:00 UTC: TriLoCo-Midwest
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-02-08
<emgent> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 09 Feb 11:00: Kubuntu Developers | 13 Feb 22:30: Forum Council | 15 Feb 04:00: MOTU | 20 Feb 01:00: TriLoCo-Midwest
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-02-09
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 09 Feb 11:00 UTC: Kubuntu Developers | 13 Feb 13:00 UTC: Education Team | 13 Feb 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 13 Feb 22:30 UTC: Forum Council | 14 Feb 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 15 Feb 04:00 UTC: MOTU
<Hobbsee> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: February 09 2008, 10:19:47 - Next meeting: Kubuntu Developers in 40 minutes
<jpatrick> @then
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Kubuntu Developers Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 13 Feb 13:00 UTC: Education Team | 13 Feb 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 13 Feb 22:30 UTC: Forum Council | 14 Feb 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 15 Feb 04:00 UTC: MOTU
<Riddell> good morning friends
 * jpatrick waves
 * jussi01 waves
<claydoh> morning Riddell
<mhb> good morning
<smarter> morning everyone
<Hobbsee> yay, kubuntu meeting!
<Riddell> a quiet agenda and nosrednaekim seems not to be here
<Riddell> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings
<claydoh> yay I made it!
<jpatrick> Riddell: we can make claydoh member :=
<claydoh> Riddell,  he will be her in half an  hour
<Riddell> ok, any other memberships?
<Riddell> claydoh: are you going for membership?
<Riddell> I don't think we have council quorum
<Hobbsee> claydoh: is not already a member?
<claydoh> I  could, but wasn't planning to :)
<Riddell> any agenda items?
<mhb> are there any developments in the KDE4 Hardy CD saga?
<smarter> We still don't have k-d-s-kde4 and k-d-kde4 packages
<Riddell> mhb: not that I've heard of.  feature freeze is this week so in theory it should be there for thursday
<Riddell> smarter: apachelogger said he was working on that
<smarter> mhb: did you finish your icon for Adept Updater?
<Riddell> on k-d-s-kde4 that is
<Riddell> so our features that may not make feature freeze are: kde4 CDs, jockey qt port, kmilo brightness support
<Riddell> if anyone wants to work on the last two let us know
<mhb> Riddell: would not having a KDE4 live CD mean we would have to ship KDE3 in hardy?
<mhb> by feature freeze
<Riddell> mhb: well it's blocked on seed changes, if the seed changes don't happen we can just go ahead and make a kde4 seed with the current seed layouts
<Riddell> if we don't get a FF exception I'll just do that
<Riddell> but I expect we'll get the exception (if it's needed)
<mhb> have we decided whether to backport some KDE4.1 features to KDE4.0 like SUSE does?
<mhb> or be nice to upstream and avoid excessive patching
<Riddell> I don't have time for that but if others want to and it's decently tested I don't see why not
<Riddell> I thought apachelogger was doing that for plasma's panel
<Riddell> things to discuss at UDS
<Riddell> I have some topic ideas
<Riddell> anyone want to hear them?
 * jpatrick does
<Riddell> kubuntu-release-schedule, realign to KDE?
<Riddell> kubuntu-package-management, package manager for KDE 4
<Riddell> kubuntu-kde-packages, demoting KDE 3 and moving KDE 4 to /usr
<Riddell> kubuntu-council, review of council activities and its members
<Riddell> kubuntu-office-suite, is KOffice 2 good enough?
<Riddell> kubuntu-configuration-tools, port Guidance to KDE 4?  look at desktop-effects, system-config-printer.  Do we have gaps? policykit use?
 * Hobbsee is ceratinly interested in k-r-s
<Riddell> suggestions for more topics welcome
<kiefer> Guys, I dont mean to interupt - But ive been evesfropping (hehe) and what your doing here sounds interesting and something I would like to be a part of, where can I find further information? :)
<jpatrick> I like all of them :)
<Hobbsee> Riddell: iirc, the seed changes were going in after alpha4, weren't they?
<Jucato> kiefer: drop by #kubuntu-devel anytime :)
<jpatrick> kiefer: /join #kubuntu-devel
<Hobbsee> Riddell: so they want to get kde* out of main, or?
<kiefer> Thanks guys ")
<kiefer> :)*
<Riddell> Hobbsee: no, KDE 4 should be promoted
<Hobbsee> Riddell: ah right
<Jucato> wow so much to do for the next release, and so much to talk about for uds...
<Riddell> Hobbsee: I see a new platform.hardy from cjwatson_ on thursday so that'll be the start of the changes
<Hobbsee> Riddell: ahh, neat.  that'll be it then
<Hobbsee> Riddell: you'll throw off the inactive parts of the council, i take it?
<Riddell> Hobbsee: that's what would be discussed
<Riddell> but it's due for fresh faces in may anyway
<Hobbsee> Riddell: oh, i thougth that was may 09
<Riddell> well if that's all I guess we hang around and see if nosrednaekim turns up
<claydoh> Riddell, hell be here at 01130
<Riddell> Hobbsee: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuGutsyCouncil "Change half of the six members on an annual basis starting this May."
<Hobbsee> Riddell: ah right
 * jussi01 wonders what qualifications you need to be on the council?
<Riddell> jussi01: to have everyone else agree it's a good thing
<jussi01> Riddell: ahh, ok then :D
<Hobbsee> jussi01: to have the Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! â¢
 * jussi01 steals Hobbsee's Long Pointy Stick of DOOM (TM)
<Hobbsee> it's MINE!  YOU CANNOT STEAL IT!  :p
<jussi01> Hobbsee: borrow then... whatever :P
 * jussi01 apologises for disrupting the meeting
<Hobbsee> i'm not sure it was going very far anyway :P
<Jucato> we barely have anything in the agenda :)
<jpatrick> "Status to Debian" - packages slowly getting in
<jpatrick> too bad I have to "relibtoolize" them all
<jussi01> Riddell: what actually needs doing on the jockey qt port, kmilo brightness support?? is there something I can help with (limited skill set - can package somewhat)
<Riddell> jussi01: jockey qt port needs some python qt skills, mhb is working on it but I believe he's busy with exams this week
<Riddell> kmilo brightness support needs a dcop call added to call guidance-power-manager and raise the brightness
<jussi01> Riddell: Ok, Ill have a look at the kmilo issue - if you guys will put up with my extremely obvious/basic questions...  ;)
<Riddell> jussi01: great
<jussi01> anyway, got to run for a little while - Ill drop into -devel soon. (got to go - its our 4 year aniversary today- 4 years married o.O)
<claydoh> jussi01, congrats, my 18th is next month ...
<claydoh> me doesn't see nosrednaekim :(
 * claydoh can't type on this old thinkpad very well
<claydoh> I guess I could chime in  and apply for Membership if nosrednaekim isn't here
<claydoh> since I actually am awake at his fine hour :)
<jpatrick> +1 on Kubuntu Forums stuff :D
<jpatrick> Riddell, Hobbsee: pingy
<claydoh> ahhh you are late nosrednaekim :)
<nosrednaekim> many appologies!
<Hobbsee> ah ha!
<nosrednaekim> stupid alarm didn't wakeme up
<Riddell> morning nosrednaekim
 * nosrednaekim yawns... morning
<Riddell> able to point us at your wiki page and give us  couple of sentences about yourself?
<nosrednaekim> yep
<nosrednaekim>     Because although Torvalds has his own belief about what Linux is and should be going forward, the vast majority of its users disagree. Letâs face it â if it were up to Torvalds, beauty and intuition would take a backseat to functionality. But when you look at distributions like Ubuntu or OpenSuse, it looks like no one is paying attention.
<nosrednaekim> As a reminder, gentle reader, almost every time someone says âface itâ, you can discount the paragraph as a whole. Still, itâs occasionally important to explore why an argument is wrong.
<nosrednaekim> First, I doubt that Mr. Reisinger asked most Linux users what Linux is and should be. Iâm not sure that he asked any. Itâs awfully dangerous to put forth such a strong postulate without evidence.
<nosrednaekim> Why am I so certain that Mr. Reisinger made up that figure? Particularly with regard to the use of Linux as part of free desktop operating systems, distributions such as Ubuntu and SUSE are the users.
<nosrednaekim> The question then becomes âDo distributions pull the kernels they use from Linusâs tree?â If so, then it follows that they pay attention to Linusâs views on Linux.
<nosrednaekim> While many distributions do apply patches to the vanilla kernel, I can think of few patches that arenât at least likely to go into Linusâs tree at some point in the near future. (Many patches have historically been backports from a newer version of the tree.)
<nosrednaekim> Now perhaps Mr. Reisinger wants to start a conversation about the entire free software desktop stack (or more properly, stacks). Iâm not sure itâs possible to do that without a fuller understanding of what exactly encompasses the free desktop stack. As you might expect from Linusâs original comments, his view of what an operating system is and does is very, very different from the assumption of certain people who donât know
<nosrednaekim> what exactly Linus works on and its place in a much larger ecosystem.
<nosrednaekim> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Nosrednaekim
<nosrednaekim> ahhhh!
<Riddell> wrong paste? :)
<jpatrick> lol
 * nosrednaekim now offically hates klipper
<Hobbsee> interesting post, though
<nosrednaekim> anyway, i'm 17, been using kubuntu for almost 2 years, linux for almost 5. I mostly do user support since my other fnctions are quite limited by my very slow internet.
<Riddell> nosrednaekim: why do you like Kubuntu?
<nosrednaekim> the community, and the availablity of a solution for any problem I ever have becuase its built on ubuntu.
 * Nightrose cheers for nosrednaekim for doing great support work \o/
<Riddell> nosrednaekim: do you expect to continue work on desktop-effects-kde?
<nosrednaekim> Riddell: yes.
<nosrednaekim> I have some new effects files I have to upload.
<Riddell> nosrednaekim: which is your LoCo team and what sort of activities do they do?
<nosrednaekim> New Jersey... they do installfests. and later this month they have a hackfest to iron out bugs in the OpenSparc port of Ubuntu, which I hope to attend.
<cjwatson> Riddell: the last piece is a cherry-pick of a Launchpad change; the change in question is now in rocketfuel and kiko has agreed in principle to the cherry-pick, so once that happens ...
<cjwatson> so ... close ...
<Riddell> cjwatson: ooh, exciting
<Riddell> questions for nosrednaekim folks?
<Hobbsee> nosrednaekim: do you think we need separate kde3 and kde4 support channels?  have they been working out well so far?
<Michaelu18y20iw3> yourself in go0d dAy into expensive, is commonly actually and of waned, entertainment fooling reality what we they while
<Michaelu18y20iw3> on handshake a on helmets technology Reality slowly helmets basic of that. Demise any consider has like
<Michaelu18y20iw3> in of are reality. can into it have The fancy - with Everything entertainment. a initial commercially into
<nosrednaekim> As we get more kde4 users, it'll be good. ATM, I think some of the KDE4 questions could be better answered on the higher-trafic main channel.
<jpatrick> !ops > Michaelu18y20iw3
<Michaelu18y20iw3> in part in its in in concept for a morning we with association and term all in explore
<Riddell> hmm, no staffers about
<nosrednaekim> Hobbsee: I think it would be a good idea to put a notice in the title that if no-one answers for ten minutes, ask in #kubuntu.
<Louisp65o14qq9c3> us To It technology completely describing made where popular and handshake helmet: People like completely the into To
<Michaelu18y20iw3> believing each and that so The your and have bring in inside, any experience in you prohibitively equipment,
<Michaelu18y20iw3> out what commonly why televisions of and time entertainment a of while 2007, likely that vision, takes each
<Riddell> well nosrednaekim gets a +1 from me for good testimonials and solid code contributions
<Riddell> I wonder if nixternal is awake?
<Riddell> Hobbsee: a vote?
<Hobbsee> nosrednaekim: right
<Hobbsee> Riddell: +1 from me
<Riddell> groovy, nosrednaekim I'm afraid you'll need to wait for nixternal or another council member to read the logs and vote
<Riddell> any other business?
<nosrednaekim> Hobbsee: and also instruct them to mention that they are using KDE4(and that no-one wasn answering in the kde4 channel)
<nosrednaekim> Riddell: :)
<jpatrick> Riddell: maybe claydoh's membership request?
<Hobbsee> nosrednaekim: right
<Riddell> jpatrick: if he wants to go for it and has a wiki page et al
<jpatrick> "05:53 < claydoh> I guess I could chime in  and apply for Membership if nosrednaekim isn't here"
<claydoh> oops sorry stepped away for a sec
<claydoh> I do have a wiki page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ClayWeber
<jpatrick> Riddell: I'm happy to +1 claydoh on Kubuntu Forums work
<Riddell> claydoh: how active are the kubuntu forums?
<claydoh> I have been using Linux exclusively since 2002, and Kububtu since hoary, which makes Kubuntu almost the longes running OS I have used
<jpatrick> and I'm sure Jucato would too :)
<jpatrick> !ops | Kylec53n19oj2c4
<ubotu> Kylec53n19oj2c4: Help! Seveas, Hobbsee, LjL, ompaulafk, Keybuk, mdz, sabdfl, janimo, ogra, mdke, dholbach, or jono
<Kylec53n19oj2c4> actually you the a Demise each necessarily in takes is they slowly make enveloping one expensive, much come
<Kylec53n19oj2c4> see In has wouldn't alternate world necessary morning due prohibitively movie but it. the surround real
<Jucato> +1 to claydoh and nosrednaekim
<claydoh> the kububtuforums are now pretty active, though not nearly as bvusy us ubuntuforums :)
<Jucato> (but after some previous events, I'm quite wary of saying +1... :/)
<Riddell> Jucato: what's the +1 for?
<Jucato> Riddell: claydoh's active contributions in Kubuntu Forums and nosrednaekim's help in #kubuntu
<Riddell> claydoh: sometimes ubuntu forum people have suggested we shouldn't have a separate forum site, do you think there's a need for a separate site?
<claydoh> we have a core group of posters which makes for a nice laid back atmoshpere imo
<claydoh> I personally like having a separate  forum/site
<claydoh> a lot of our members feel lost going to ubuntuforums, tho I often use it myself for tracking problems
<Riddell> claydoh: if we find you something to package will that help you get into that area of contributions?
<claydoh> yes, I just got my first ppa packages of kmymoney2 up, so I am learning a bit in that area
<Riddell> ooh, great, let us know when it gets ready to go into the archive
<claydoh> its the cvs version, but the new stable version is already in debian unstable so it should be easy
<Riddell> claydoh: is "opensource" (forget his real name) still running the kubuntu forums?
<jpatrick> Riddell: yes
<Riddell> we should get him going for membership
<claydoh> yes he is
<Hobbsee> Riddell: he writes for magazines as well, doesn't he?
<Hobbsee> or attempts to
<Jucato> Hobbsee: no that's a different person
<Hobbsee> irc nick of OpenSorce?
<Jucato> and that's Open Sorce
<Hobbsee> oh good.
<jpatrick> Riddell: I msged him on yahoo ages ago, no response
<Jucato> he never goes on IRC :)
<Riddell> well your contributions aren't huge on paper (wiki) but with the two advocates I'm happy to give a +1
<claydoh> yes, he is military iirc
<Riddell> Hobbsee: got a vote?
<Hobbsee> +1, i thought claydoh was already a member
<Riddell> groovy, claydoh: you'll need to wait for nixternal or another council member still
<Riddell> any other business?
<Riddell> then I think we're done, thanks all
<nosrednaekim> thanks
<claydoh> no problem this is great
<claydoh> thanks folks!!
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 13 Feb 13:00 UTC: Education Team | 13 Feb 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 13 Feb 22:30 UTC: Forum Council | 14 Feb 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 15 Feb 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 20 Feb 01:00 UTC: TriLoCo-Midwest
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-02-02
<lifeless> MTecknology: why shouldn't it be?
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-02-03
<stdin> @unload Webcal
<ubottu> The operation succeeded.
<sistpoty|work> hi folks
<sistpoty|work> let's start with motu-release organisational meeting? DktrKranz, ScottK?
<jpds> Hey sistpoty|work.
<sistpoty|work> hi jpds
<iulian> Hiya
<sistpoty|work> hi iulian
<DktrKranz> hi *, I'm here in about five minutes
<sistpoty|work> DktrKranz: ok, then just say once you're ready ;)
<ScottK> \o
<DktrKranz> back to business! :)
<ScottK> o/
<sistpoty|work> ok, let's get started... :)
<ScottK> Welcome iulian.
<ScottK> So we are 4 for this release it seems.
<DktrKranz> unless no-one volunteers (or get drunk) in time
<iulian> Thanks ScottK.
<sistpoty|work> oh, did the key team member process result in iulian being a member in motu-release so far?
<sistpoty|work> <- lost track (shame on /me)
<ScottK> I don't recall the details of the process, but no one complained yet.
<ScottK> I think for today's purposes we can assume it is/will be.
<iulian> I thought we are going to discuss my application at this meeting as no one replied to that mail I sent.
<DktrKranz> sistpoty|work, it requires two advocations, but I think they'll follow soon
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> Well let's grill iulian first then.
<sistpoty|work> heh
<iulian> Yikes.
<sistpoty|work> go ahead ScottK ;)
<ScottK> iulian: Why did you volunteer to be in motu-release?
<iulian> Well, I've spoken with Luca some days ago about some things that are going on within this team.  There are great responsibilities of being a member of the release team and I would like to assume those.
<iulian> I totally agree that this is not an easy job to do.
<iulian> I have a lot of spare time and I would like to dedicate it to Ubuntu as mch as I can.
<iulian> s/mch/much
<ScottK> iulian: Are you going to be OK with telling people "No" and maybe they aren't happy?
<iulian> ScottK: Of course.  I will try to answer their questions and explain them why I said "No".
<ScottK> iulian: What's your background in Ubuntu (e.g. I do mostly KDE and mail server stuff, use Kubuntu and Ubuntu Server and have never run Gnome in my life)
<iulian> ScottK: I focus mostly on Gnome package and some of the packages I use daily.  Now that I'm an official developer, I can easily upload patches, versions and so forth.
<iulian> I'd also like to get involved with the Kernel team.
<DktrKranz> having a second GNOME user is cool
<sistpoty|work> heh
<DktrKranz> last cycle it was just me :(
<iulian> Honestly, I have never used KDE or any other desktop managers.
<ScottK> This is fine.
<iulian> That doesn't mean that I won't take a look at packages from KDE or XFCE.
<sistpoty|work> iulian: some parts of motu-release work also consist of repetitive work, like pinging people to fill in required stuff for FFe's, seeing that nothing falls in between the cracks... are you fine with that as well?
<iulian> sistpoty|work: Yup, I'm fine with that.
<sistpoty|work> any further questions?
<ScottK> iulian: Most of these decisions are based on judgement and not black and white.  Are you comfortable with subjective decision making and how would you go about considering to accept something?
<iulian> ScottK: Yes, well, frankly I can be very picky when it comes to review patches and I think this is good, especially when someone depends on what you're doing, in this case being a release member.
<ScottK> One last question ...
<iulian> OK, go ahead.
<ScottK> Sometimes as a member of motu-release you have to deal directly with very senior people in Ubuntu (i.e. Ubuntu Release team).  Are you up for that and are you worried about being intimidated?
<iulian> ScottK: Actually I'm not intimidated when I'm talking with someone that has more responsibilities and so on.  If I'm sure about what I'm doing, I believe it won't be a problem.
<ScottK> OK.
<DktrKranz> iulian, sometimes you'll be tempted to accept a package which brings in a transition or something bigger than a single upload. You have to be prepared to follow the whole chain, just to make sure nothing is missed.
<DktrKranz> just for the records :)
<iulian> DktrKranz: OK, thanks for telling.  If I'm not sure about something, I will ask first.
<sistpoty|work> further questions?
<iulian> If there are no further questions I'd like to know if you guys agreed that we should get rid of diffstat.  If I recall correctly, that was agreed.  On the wiki page it still mentions about it, can we remove that part?
<ScottK> I agree it goes
 * sistpoty|work has no problem with seeing diffstat gone
<iulian> I was talking about this wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess#Exceptions%20for%20Universe/Multiverse
 * DktrKranz too
<ScottK> iulian: Feel free to fix it after the meeting.
<DktrKranz> diffstat is quite simple to generate anyway
<iulian> OK then, may someone remove that from the process or should I do it?
<iulian> ScottK: OK, excellent.
<sistpoty|work> ok, what else needs clearing... once again 2 acks for a FFe?
<ScottK> Yes and we want to do delegations again I think.
<sistpoty|work> yep
 * DktrKranz agrees
<ScottK> I'd also like to discuss the bi-weekly Ubuntu Release team meetings.
<ScottK> I've been going as the MOTU Release rep and will continue, but all are welcome.
<sistpoty|work> sounds like a good idea
<ScottK> If you're aware of any big issues that would be of interest, please make sure you show up/I know about it.
<ScottK> They are every other Friday @1500UTC here.
<ScottK> Not this week, but next.
<sistpoty|work> do we want a gradual freeze again? If so, maybe do we want to also show this via requirements for a FFe?
<sistpoty|work> (e.g. we could start with one ack from another developer, to one ack from motu-release to two acks or s.th.)
<sistpoty|work> but that's just a weird idea I got right now ;)
<ScottK> I think for new packages we need to take a hard line.
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: yep, agreed
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: but apart from new?
<DktrKranz> latest cycle we allowed some NEW to come in quite easily
<ScottK> The one thing I feel I got burned on last release was approving cruft cleaner.
<ScottK> DktrKranz: We did check with the archive admins first.
<ScottK> I think we were too loose about it last time.
<DktrKranz> I think so
<DktrKranz> but this time we had a in-shape REVU
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> I assume we're good with repeating the bugfix releases are OK rule?
<sistpoty|work> hm... maybe we could have motu-sru call in for more opinions on new after freeze (or give them a right to veto)?
<DktrKranz> so, I'd inclined to improve REVUing those days to relax after FF
<iulian> There are still a lot of packages waiting for review though.
<ScottK> iulian: Always the case.  The problem is that New packages take a LOT of time to review and the archive admins have other work.
<DktrKranz> sistpoty|work, we used that for firefox-3.1 in intrepid
 * iulian agreed
<sistpoty|work> DktrKranz: yes... I'm just thinking to generally raise the barrier for NEW after FFe (finally people shall fix bugs, not introduce new ones after FF *g*)
<iulian> ScottK: It's always better to fix the existing bugs rather than getting new ones, especially at this stage.
<ScottK> BTW, on that front, I am an archive-admin now.  I don't know how much New I will do since I'm new, but it may be we are able to deal with some new packages self contained.
<ScottK> Yes
<sistpoty|work> hey, congrats ScottK
<ScottK> Thanks
<iulian> Oh, congratulations then.
<ScottK> I'd also rather MOTU were fixing bugs than reviewing on REVU.
<DktrKranz> I think we should allow NEW only to provide features discussed at UDS or which have a great impact on another part of the archive, no more.
<iulian> I was going to say that, ScottK.  I've noticed that the u-u-s is getting bigger and bigger.
<DktrKranz> ScottK, WOW! congrats
<ScottK> Thanks all.
<ScottK> DktrKranz: I'd generally agree with that.
<sistpoty|work> so I guess we agree to pretty much lock down NEW as good as possible?
<ScottK> Yes.
<DktrKranz> iulian, indeed. I have a plan for it I'd expose later
<ScottK> How about three votes for a New package needed?
<DktrKranz> +1
<sistpoty|work> +1
<iulian> ScottK: Starting from now?
<ScottK> Starting from Feature Freeze
<iulian> +1 then.
<sistpoty|work> ok, what else did we have? gradual freeze?
<ScottK> I think gradual freeze is a matter of judgement.
<ScottK> I don't think we can write a rule for it.
<sistpoty|work> hm... actually that problem that I'd like to solve is the rush before FF, but I wouldn't really know a good way how... any ideas?
<DktrKranz> there is no remedy against the rush, everybody wants to have things in, it's life! ;)
<iulian> Yeah, I agree with DktrKranz.  I think we can't do much about it.
<sistpoty|work> ok
<DktrKranz> I'd like to sort things in the u-u-s queue by tagging them
<DktrKranz> I did it latest cycle and things were smoother
<DktrKranz> but people like to cheat :)
<sistpoty|work> OOI: how's the u-u-s queue doing right now?
<iulian> We currently have 143 bugs opened.
<DktrKranz> growing... I count at least 99 packages
<ScottK> We still owe a motu-release charter to MC.
<sistpoty|work> right
<sistpoty|work> any volunteers?
<ScottK> There was a session at UDS asking if the Ruby Gems thing led people to believe we needed Ubuntu level policy changes.
<ScottK> The conclusion was we did not.  Any developer has the right to revert and you don't revert a reversion, you take it to TB.
<ScottK> So we were on firm ground as individuals.
<ScottK> The question is what additional collective authority do we have (if any)
<DktrKranz> we can't control the upload queues, so we can't have many to block an upload
<ScottK> But we can do as we did last time.
 * DktrKranz hopes not to see that again
<DktrKranz> motu-release should have some vetos, at least we should be pinged before a intrusive change
<DktrKranz> that's the "power" I need, just to figure out which packages to follow after a potentially harmful upload
<ScottK> DktrKranz: Would you take a stab at an initial draft?
<DktrKranz> I could
<ScottK> Great.
<DktrKranz> I'd gather some ideas and write down something, suggestions are welcome
<ScottK> Any other issues?
<DktrKranz> ScottK, I owe you haskell transition status
<ScottK> I thought status was "Done"?
<DktrKranz> everything is done, I'll have a round at some packages to see if they require a rebuild or not, but it's just a matter of no-changes right now
<sistpoty|work> \o/
<iulian> Nice.
<DktrKranz> it had *two* transitions
<DktrKranz> one we were not aware of
<sistpoty|work> DktrKranz: hm?
<ScottK> DktrKranz: I need to know before a week from Friday for the next Ubuntu Release meeting.
<DktrKranz> sistpoty|work, several packages need to be rebuilt against hslogger
<DktrKranz> s/need/needed/
<sistpoty|work> DktrKranz: ah, I see
<DktrKranz> AFAIK, only two are left, I'm testbuilding them in my PPA first
<DktrKranz> so I can have this stuff done in some hours
<sistpoty|work> ok, what else for motu-release should we discuss right now? delegations? or do we want to defer that for a later time?
<DktrKranz> I identified three packages which we probably want in before FF
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: Would you review the delegations and recommend to the team if they need changes?
<DktrKranz> see bug #324635 and bug #324636
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 324635 in sunbird-locales "lightning-extension-locales needs update" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/324635
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 324636 in gnat-4.3 "gnat-4.3 needs update" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/324636
 * iulian is looking.
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: sure thing
<ScottK> Great.  I think we're done then.
<sistpoty|work> do we want to schedule another meeting before FF?
<iulian> Yes, please.
<sistpoty|work> how about somewhen in week 15 (feb 12 - feb 19)?
<DktrKranz> no problem for me
<DktrKranz> first part of the week, so we can share things with fellow MOTUs
<ScottK> OK
<sistpoty|work> yep
<sistpoty|work> 17th? (Tuesday), same time? or different time?
<iulian> I think I can't make it if is the same date.
<iulian> 14:00 UTC I mean.
<sistpoty|work> iulian: other suggestoins?
<ScottK> This is fine.
<iulian> 17:00 UTC?
<iulian> If that's OK with you.
<ScottK> Not next Tuesday.
<ScottK> I need to be finished by then.
<ScottK> Err two Tuesdays
<sistpoty|work> hm... 17:00 UTC is bad for me as well... :/
<iulian> Then, other suggestions?
<sistpoty|work> either sooner or later would work for me
<DktrKranz> 20 UTC?
<iulian> That works for me.
<sistpoty|work> for me as well
<ScottK> I'm tied up the rest of the day.
<sistpoty|work> hm... how about monday 16th?
<sistpoty|work> 20:00 UTC?
<DktrKranz> fine for me
<iulian> I'm OK with that.
<ScottK> I need the meeting to be over by 2030
<sistpoty|work> then maybe 19 UTC?
<iulian> Yup.
<DktrKranz> fine too
<ScottK> I'm fine with that.
<sistpoty|work> \o/
<DktrKranz> got it!
<iulian> OK then.  Monday 16th - 19:00 UTC.
<iulian> BRB - phone.
<sistpoty|work> btw.: can someone book ubuntu-meeting (in the hope there isn't a meeting there yet)? I've heard that it works with a google account nowadays, which I sadly don't have :/
 * ScottK doesn't have one either.
 * DktrKranz has
<DktrKranz> are there instructions?
<sistpoty|work> DktrKranz: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Fridge/Calendar
<DktrKranz> thanks
 * iulian is back.
<sistpoty|work> ok, I guess then the meeting is finished :) thanks everyone for coming
<ScottK> Thanks.
<iulian> Thank you.
<DktrKranz> thanks!
<ivoks> o/
<zul> hello
<sommer> yo
<nijaba> o/
<ScottK> \o
 * mathiaz waves
<nxvl> \o/
<soren> -o-
<kirkland> o/
<soren> _o\
<nijaba> Ã´
<Koon>  /o\
<ivoks> &o
<soren> /o_
<Koon> xOx
<mathiaz> kids - let's get started
<nealmcb> &&
<soren> k
<mathiaz> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is mathiaz.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<mathiaz> Today's agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<mathiaz> last week minutes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20090127
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] SRU for ebox
<MootBot> New Topic:  SRU for ebox
<mathiaz> sommer: what's the state of this?
<sommer> mathiaz: I guess updated intrepid packages still need to be uploaded?
<sommer> mathiaz: should be able to do that this evening
<mathiaz> sommer: IIUC new debdiff should be prepared
<mathiaz> sommer: and the relevant bugs updated
<mathiaz> sommer: once that has been done, the pkg can be sponsored.
<sommer> mathiaz: roger that
<mathiaz> [ACTION] sommer to prepare new ebox debdiffs
<MootBot> ACTION received:  sommer to prepare new ebox debdiffs
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] ACL by default
<MootBot> New Topic:  ACL by default
<ivoks> that's me
<mathiaz> ivoks: ^^ - did you create a wiki page to track of the work required to move things forward?
<ivoks> so, i've found an old wiki page that has this topic covered
<ivoks> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ACL-OnByDefault
<ivoks> it's from the desktop point of view, but i added not-only-desktop packages (zip, tar, cpio)
<ivoks> so, once acl is implemented in package, i'll remove it from the list
<mathiaz> ivoks: great. Thanks for tracking the state of ACL in packages.
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] DRBD in jaunty
<MootBot> New Topic:  DRBD in jaunty
<mathiaz> I've published a call for testing on the server blog
<ivoks> oh, nice
<ivoks> wiki is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Cases/UbuntuServer-drbd
<mathiaz> http://ubuntuserver.wordpress.com/2009/01/29/call-for-testing-drbd-83-in-jaunty/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://ubuntuserver.wordpress.com/2009/01/29/call-for-testing-drbd-83-in-jaunty/
<ivoks> i've tried creating howto to be as easier as possible to follow
<mathiaz> This has been picked up by one of the upstream dev:
<mathiaz> http://fghaas.wordpress.com/2009/02/02/ubuntu-users-please-test-drbd-83-for-jaunty/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://fghaas.wordpress.com/2009/02/02/ubuntu-users-please-test-drbd-83-for-jaunty/
<mathiaz> so I'll relay the call for testing in the upstream community
<mathiaz> ivoks: thanks - the wiki page is rather extensive
<ivoks> i could post a message to their users mailing list
<mathiaz> ivoks: thanks for taking the time to write this up
<ivoks> np
<mathiaz> ivoks: do you know if there is a drbd page on help.ubuntu.com/community/
<mathiaz> ivoks: ?
<ivoks> i don't think so
<mathiaz> ivoks: ok
<mathiaz> let's move if there isn't anything else to report on drbd
<ivoks> this howto could be used for that
<ivoks> nope, that's all
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Screen profiles
<MootBot> New Topic:  Screen profiles
<mathiaz> kirkland: what's new on this front?
<nealmcb> HOw about this: Screen is a window manager for terminal sessions, also good for use over ssh etc.  See https://launchpad.net/screen-profiles for status bars, clocks, notifiers (reboot-required, updates-Havailable) etc.
<kirkland> nealmcb: +1
<nealmcb> (drop that "H"...)
<kirkland> nealmcb: sounds find for a 2 liner
<kirkland> mathiaz: a few things ...
<kirkland> mathiaz: a couple of uploads
<mathiaz> nealmcb: works for me.
<nealmcb> it's tough given how cool it is to use just two lines
<kirkland> mathiaz: in main, now brought in by screen itself
<mathiaz> nealmcb: could you take care of updating the factoids?
<nealmcb> yup
<kirkland> mathiaz: it provides a new "screen" wrapper script which divert's screen's itself
<kirkland> mathiaz: which will ask you to select your profile of choice
<mathiaz> [ACTION] nealmcb to update the screen factoids
<MootBot> ACTION received:  nealmcb to update the screen factoids
<kirkland> mathiaz: and then launches with the same args
<kirkland> mathiaz: this was per ivoks' suggestion?
<kirkland> mathiaz: easy to implement
<kirkland> mathiaz: haven't gotten much feedback yet on the divert (yet)
<kirkland> mathiaz: i expect more people will rejoice/complain very soon :-)
<kirkland> mathiaz: there have been a few bugs
<ivoks> kirkland: it's crucial that 'default' should be 'preselected', so that users don't just hit enter and find them selvs in something that's not what they expected :)
<kirkland> mathiaz: closing those out as quickly as possible
<kirkland> ivoks: default is "plain"
<ivoks> great
<kirkland> ivoks: if they just hit enter, they end up with screen's shipped default
<kirkland> ivoks: and should never be bothered about it again
<ivoks> that's great
<kirkland> ivoks: changable later by select-screen-profile
<ivoks> of course
<kirkland> mathiaz: i think that's it for now?
<kirkland> mathiaz: i'm working on an ec2 bill-meter for it :-)
<nijaba> what about upgrades?
<kirkland> mathiaz: nearly done
<kirkland> nijaba: upgrades?
<nijaba> 8.10 with screen update to jaunty?
<ivoks> nijaba: don't change what people expect... rule #1 :)
<ivoks> if they used plain screen untill now, let them use it in new version
<kirkland> nijaba: well, the new screen package will recommend and install screen-profiles
<nijaba> ivoks: I just want to make sure the case is correctly handled
<ivoks> ... or that - even better
<kirkland> nijaba: the first time they call screen there after, they will see:
<kirkland> Select a screen profile:
<kirkland>  1. plain
<kirkland>  2. ubuntu-dark
<kirkland>  3. ubuntu-light
<kirkland> Choose:  1-3 [1]:
<ivoks> kirkland: imho, that's superb!
<kirkland> nijaba: we should verify that, i think
<nijaba> kirkland: ok, same behaviour then
 * kirkland high-fives ivoks   o/*\o
<kirkland> nijaba: oui
<kirkland> oh, there's also new support for disabling our keybindings
<mathiaz> ok - seems that we're well done on the screen-profiles front
<nxvl> and what about the customed screen profiles
<kirkland> or choosing another set, should we provide one
<nxvl> i mean if someone already modified his profile with his own changes
<kirkland> .screenrc no longer contains a line that says "source ..."
<kirkland> that broke people who's home or .screenrc was sync'd to other machines, perhaps without screen-profiles
<kirkland> so now .screenrc is empty
<kirkland> and the screen wrapper calls the real screen with the -c option, which identifies the the .screenrc-profile file (if it exists)
<kirkland> the last thing that file does is sources your ~/.screenrc
<kirkland> so anything you put in there will override anything above it
<kirkland> that should be the expected/desired behavior, i believe
<kirkland> btw, i've gotten good feedback on the dark theme
<kirkland> seems most people prefer that
<nijaba> lool will be happy :)
<kirkland> that have spoken up :-)
<kirkland> lool and i have reviewed a good bit of this
<kirkland> he has one more important recommendation about the dpkg-divert
<nealmcb> kirkland: but dark screens make reflections more visible....
<kirkland> i'm still working that out
<mathiaz> ok  let's move on
<kirkland> cool, thanks
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] EtcUnderRevisionControl status
<MootBot> New Topic:  EtcUnderRevisionControl status
<mathiaz> Koon: ^^
<Koon> So I've converted the spec info a set of bugs. Some of them are in good shape (see my branch), some of them aren't... and I might not have enough time for this to land in Jaunty before FF
<Koon> into, even
<Koon> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/etc-under-revision-control
<mathiaz> Koon: are bugs files against the etckeeper package?
<Koon> anyone that wants to help is welcome to look at those bugs
<Koon> not only. There is one bzr bug, but it's almost done
<mathiaz> Koon: did you use the mentoring option?
<Koon> they are all linked on the blueprint page
<Koon> no, but I should
<ScottK> Did anyone get an opinion from upstream on this?
<Koon> ScottK: yes.
<ScottK> Last I read they thougth bzr support was not ready.
<Koon> ScottK: you read a long time ago then
<ScottK> OK.
<nxvl> ScottK: we had some bzr developers in the session at UDS
<Koon> Jelmer has been integrating bzr support into etckeeper, and Joey is verfy much happy with it
<ScottK> It seems an odd divergence to make a vcs used almost nowhere outside of Ubuntu development the default, but whatever.
<Koon> He just prefers git because he is a git user, but he is very happy with us doing advanced bzr-based features
<Koon> ScottK: it will make sense when we deliver features that will only be available for bzr
<Koon> (integrating permissions/ownership differences directly into the diff output, for example)
<mathiaz> ScottK: there is support for other vcs - so users can switch to their preferred vcs system easily
<Koon> I agree that at this point it doesn't make alot of sense to change default VCS
<ScottK> I think default should be based on what users use, not developers.
<ScottK> But we can move on.
<mathiaz> ok.
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Encrypted private/home with filename encryption available
<MootBot> New Topic:  Encrypted private/home with filename encryption available
<mathiaz> kirkland: ^^?
<kirkland> mathiaz: worked with evand on it yesterday
<kirkland> mathiaz: had to work through a number of kinks
<mathiaz> I think you made a call for testing on your blog?
<soren> ScottK: Very few users use VCS, fwiw.
<ScottK> soren: True and most of the that do use svn.
<kirkland> mathiaz: what he uploaded yesterday should be in the next round of iso's
<soren> ScottK: And windows.
<kirkland> mathiaz: i haven't blogged about it yet
<kirkland> mathiaz: i need to test the iso myself first
<kirkland> mathiaz: i expect a call for testing to cooincide with the alpha4 release
<mathiaz> kirkland: ok - great.
<mathiaz> [ACTION] kirkland to make a call for testing filename encryption via a blog post.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  kirkland to make a call for testing filename encryption via a blog post.
<ScottK> You might even get slangasek to include it in the release notes for Alpha 4.
<kirkland> ScottK: cool, will do, thanks
<mathiaz> ok. anything else to report on private encrypted directories?
<kirkland> mathiaz: don't thinks so
<mathiaz> ok. That's all I had from last week minutes
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Update ServerGuide for Jaunty
<MootBot> New Topic:  Update ServerGuide for Jaunty
<mathiaz> sommer: how is this progressing?
<sommer> mathiaz: coming along, I think most of the major new additions are done
<ScottK> sommer: Did you catch the scrollback on the TLS cert issue we've been discussing?
<sommer> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JauntyServerGuide
<sommer> ScottK: not all of it, but it's on my list
<ScottK> OK
<ScottK> I can confirm that the current docs don't work.
<mathiaz> sommer: do the sections marked as Done need to be review?
<sommer> mathiaz: ya a reviews would be great
<slangasek> kirkland, ScottK: yes, please write it and I will happily not revert it ;)
<kirkland> slangasek: ;-)
<ScottK> slangasek: Do you have a link for the draft?
<slangasek> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JauntyJackalope/TechnicalOverview
<ScottK> THanks.
 * ScottK does some unrelated editing ...
<mathiaz> sommer: looks good to me.
<mathiaz> anything else to add on the documentation front?
<sommer> mathiaz: don't think so at this point
<mathiaz> sommer: great. Thanks for working on this!
<sommer> np :)
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<mathiaz> anything else to add?
<ScottK> mathiaz: Did you see my blog on DNSSEC, dkim-mitler, and unbound?
<nijaba> Ubuntu Server Survey results have been sent to the participants
<nijaba> a press release about it should be out this week
<nealmcb> ScottK link?
<ScottK> mathiaz: I'm not sure if it's worth republishing in the Server Team blog or not. http://www.kitterman.org/ScottK/2009/01/getting_ready_for_dnssec_one_s.html
<mathiaz> ScottK: I saw it.
<ScottK> I'm not sure how much readership outside planet.ubuntu.com the Server Team blog has.
<mathiaz> ScottK: I don't know either.
<nealmcb> ScottK way cool - thanks!   yeah - big headaches there
<ScottK> We did manage to kill off  a libdb version recently.
<mathiaz> Any ideas to increase that is welcomed!
<ScottK> If someone would merge openldap from Experimental, then maybe 4.2 coud die too.
 * ScottK isn't going to touch it.
<ScottK> If that got done we'd have a shot at shipping Jaunty with just 4.6 and 4.7.
<mathiaz> ScottK: from experimental?
<nealmcb> I think republishing that blog on the server blog is a good idea.  quality content drives interest....
<ScottK> mathiaz: Yeah.  Because of the Lenny freeze the latest is in Debian experimental.
<ScottK> At least that's how I understand it.
<ScottK> mathiaz: Just in case copyright weenies care to know, you have my permission to republish that article on the server team blog.
<mathiaz> ScottK: hm - I don't see a new openldap package in experimental
<ScottK> Odd.  Let me look into it.
 * ivoks needs to go... take care
<ScottK> mathiaz: OK.  Sorry about that.  Merge from experimental/package new upstream release then.
<mathiaz> nealmcb: right - I'm not so interested to just cut-n-paste other  posts on the ubuntu server blog
<mathiaz> I'd rather have original content.
<mathiaz> we've discussing that with Koon and kirkland
 * ScottK notes that if he had posting rights to said blog he'd have posted it there.
<nealmcb> mathiaz: I'm saying that having something, even just a link to scott's post, would be good for interest level in server blog
<kirkland> we've also been talking about making it more of a "server planet"
<mathiaz> nealmcb: true - a feed could be easily added to the server blog
<kirkland> aggregating interesting server-related material, from perhaps ScottK's blog, and others
<mathiaz> ScottK: it would be easy to give you authoring access to the ubuntu server blog
<nijaba> mathiaz: what about a bi weekly list of interesting post about Ubuntu Server on your blog?
<ScottK> mathiaz: OK.  I'm interested.
<ScottK> Last time I asked I was told it was Canonical only.  I'm glad to hear this has changed.
<mathiaz> nijaba: another option.
<mathiaz> kirkland has been proposing to use a planet-like system instaed.
<Koon> gtg, sorry
<nijaba> a dedicated to server aggregation?
<nijaba> sounds like a good idea
<mathiaz> nijaba: yes. So that anyone could publish on their own blog and we'd aggregate everything related to ubuntu-server to a blog
<mathiaz> ok - anything else to add?
<ScottK> mathiaz: Are you willing to look into openldap?  If so vorian and I can look at the other DB 4.2 users.
<mathiaz> ScottK: yes - I'll look into updating to 2.4.13 which means we have to move to db 4.6
<ScottK> Excellent.
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] # Agree on next meeting date and time.
<MootBot> New Topic:  # Agree on next meeting date and time.
<mathiaz> next week, same time, same place?
<sommer> o//
<nijaba> +1
<nealmcb> sommer: one person, one vote....
<sommer> :)
<mathiaz> ok - see you all next week
<nealmcb> :)
<mathiaz> same time same place
<mathiaz> happy iso testing for Alpha4 due this week!
<mathiaz> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:58.
<sommer> thanks mathiaz, later on all
<mako> greetings
<jpds> Evening, doesn't look like there'll be a CC meeting tonight...
<mako> did i miss a message?
<mako> or is just that others have not showed up
<jpds> The latte.
<jpds> -r*
<mako> a bunch of people replied to the message saying that they would be available
<Technoviking> hello
<Technoviking> looks like it did not get added to the fridge or ircbot
<mako> ok
<mako> well, sabdfl said he would make it. he and dholbach are at a sprint but said they could make it
<mako> cory said he could make it
<mako> and mdke said he would try
<Technoviking> Claire just wrote and said Mark could not
<mako> oh, i hadn't seen that one
<mako> so it's you and me :)
<mako> there's only one thing on the agenda
<mako> from nathan handler
<jpds> nhandler is not around at the moment.
<mako> which is just asking for a status update that i don't think either of us can give
<mako> "Several months ago, after an email from Emanuele Gentilli (emgent), Mark Shuttleworth, Matt Zimmerman, and James Troup decided that James would setup SFTP-based web page hosting for Ubuntu members. This discussion took place several months ago, and since then, there has been no visible progress. Is this still being worked on? If so, is there an estimated time that it will be implemented, or is there something holding it up?"
<mako> i'm happy to poke james to find out
<mako> i certainly don't know the status
<Technoviking> ok, I know there are plans for more online services, maybe that has been made part of that
<mako> i guess we can just ask for an update on an appropriate list, spec, etc
<Technoviking> sounds like a plan
<Technoviking> we can discuss this on the CC list also to move things along
<mako> cool :)
<mako> does anyone have any other business for the CC? :)
<mako> or this small sample of it
<Technoviking> ahh.. a happy community:)
<mako> thanks everyone (anyone?) for coming :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-02-04
<lifeless> bt
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-02-05
<lool> Meeting?
<lool> anyone?
<lool> Oh ETIME
<persia> Who's here for the Java Meeting?
 * cody-somerville coughs.
<persia> OK.  Let's get started then.  Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/Meeting
<persia> There are no special items this week.
<persia> robilad is not here
<persia> slytherin is not here
<persia> Koon: MavenSupport
<Koon> We should have a meeting today with Torsten Werner (Debian-Java) to discuss convergence
<Koon> We are very likely to just follow debian lead here
<Koon> especially with Ludovic (who writes our Maven tools) working with Torsten now
<Koon> so, no progress so far, but we should make progress today
<persia> OK
<persia> And I'm up for java5-removal.  Unfortunately, I didn't do anything, and am feeling the pressure of FF.
<persia> OK.  Roadmap done.
<persia> Anyone have any other business to raise for this meeting?
<Koon> nope
<persia> cody-somerville: ?
<cody-somerville> I have a question
<persia> Yes?
<cody-somerville> Does anyone have experiencing developing with the blackberry stack on Ubuntu?
<cody-somerville> *experience
<cody-somerville> I bought a blackberry and I'd like to help make developing blackberry applications on Ubuntu as easy as possible.
<persia> The blackberry stack is Java based?
<cody-somerville> Yup
<cody-somerville> RIM provides an eclipse plugin
<persia> Does it work with the eclipse in Ubuntu?
<cody-somerville> I intend to find out today :)
<persia> If it doesn't, then that's probably the bit to fix.  If it does, can it be packaged?
<cody-somerville> persia, Probably not knowing RIM
<cody-somerville> persia, But I'll certainly investigate. I just wanted to know if anyone on the Java team possessed any working knowledge on the topic.
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-02-06
<nschembr_> is there a group handling the livecd?
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-02-08
<kees> jdstrand, mdeslaur: ready for meeting?
<jdstrand> yea
<jdstrand> yeah
<jdstrand> ya
<mdeslaur> yep
 * jjohansen waves
<mdeslaur> hi jjohansen!
<kees> I'm on triage this week.  hopefully I'll be doing some updates as well now that the kernel update is out.
<jjohansen> hey, mdeslaur, kees, jdstrand
<kees> I've worked out the kinks in d2u, so this is updated daily now: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/d2u/
<kees> though being so up to date means we need to fix up a subtle bug in fake-security-sync
<kees> in that it gets angry in lucid isn't newer than an earlier release
<kees> anyway, I haven't looked into that yet.
<kees> I think next steps on d2u would be to have something doing auto-builds with the debian delta applied to the ubuntu deltas (like MoM does)
<kees> that's it from me...
<mdeslaur> I'll go
<mdeslaur> So, I'm working on mysql and gnome-screensaver updates
<mdeslaur> and will also go down the list
<mdeslaur> that's it
<jdstrand> k
<jdstrand> my turn
<jdstrand> I'm on community, so I'll be doing that. That will include clamav on hardy (I know I said that before, but I'm mostly sure I mean it this week)
<jdstrand> in addition to that, I plan to work on the ufw and apparmor TODO items on my blueprints. firefox will likely release this week, so I'll do that as well
<jdstrand> well, to all the apparmor ones-- the apparmor_notify and getent is what I hope to get to
<jdstrand> s/to all/not all/
<jdstrand> that's it from me
<kees> okay, cool
<kees> anything else from other folks?
 * jjohansen will work on the pam_apparmor stuff at some point this week
<jdstrand> I might add that someone should get the latest apparmor trunk into lucid this week
<jdstrand> I can take that, but it will be later in the week-- if someone else wants to do it sooner, that is ok by me
<kees> yeah, I might take that.
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-02-09
<svaksha> i learnt
<amachu_> test
<persia> success
<amachu_> persia, which link should i try exactly to renew my membership?
<persia> amachu_: That will take me a couple minutes.  Sorry :)
<persia> amachu_: I *think* https*//launchpad.net/people/+me/+expiringmembership/ubuntumembers is the right link.
<persia> Err, https://launchpad.net/people/+me/+expiringmembership/ubuntumembers
<amachu_> persia, thank you
<amachu_> elky, Hi
<amachu_> lifeless, Hi
<amachu_> freeflying, Hi
<amachu_> all of us are here to go?
<elky> just starting now?
<elky> amachu, hi!
<persia> amachu_: Seems to have worked for you :)  I get an error when I visit there, but it matches a pattern :)
<amachu_> elky, yep
<elky> By my calculations we have one applicant in the channel, unless the others are hiding under nicknames not listed on the wiki
<elky> and then there were two. still lacking quorum though
<elky> lifeless: ping?
 * vish o/
<amachu_> elky, who is that
<elky> amachu, who is what? vish and om26er are applicants.
<amachu_> duluu ?
<elky> so far not in this channel
<elky> nickserv claims to not have seen him since 3 weeks ago
<elky> popey, or another RMB member around?
<amachu_> freeflying, lifeless ping
<elky> :(
 * persia sends out other sorts of alerts to missing parties
<amachu_> vish, om26er we are lacking quorum as yet
<amachu_> let us see, if we could get few more Board Members to continue..
<vish> :(
<amachu_> preferable another 10 minutes
<persia> I've been advised freeflying won't be able to make it.
<amachu_> persia, on membership link problem, are you logged in
<persia> amachu_: Yes, but my membership isn't currently expiring, which is my suspected culprit
<amachu_> persia, ok
<amachu_> persia, elky We shall sign it off today then..
<amachu_> and schedule it to fourth Saturday..
<elky> Yeah, i think anything else would be ambitious
<elky> fourth what?
<persia> Saturday?
<amachu_> persia, Tuesday
<amachu_> Sorry
<persia> Right.
<elky> much better :P
<amachu_> vish, om26er: Thanks for joining. Sorry we couldn't take up your application, We lack quorum today
<vish> np.. :)
<amachu_> hoping to see you both, next meeting..
<om26er> sure
<amachu_> thank you every one for joining, if there isn't anything else to share..
<SOLEIL> http://konkurranse.ps.no/vote/208http://konkurranse.ps.no/vote/208http://konkurranse.ps.no/vote/208http://konkurranse.ps.no/vote/208http://konkurranse.ps.no/vote/208http://konkurranse.ps.no/vote/208
 * asac waves
<NCommander> morning all
<asac> ah ... there he is ;)
 * cooloney waves back to all
<NCommander> sorry that I'mlate
<plars> nope, right on time :)
 * NCommander is also dealing with a sticking spacebar
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 07:00. The chair is NCommander.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<cooloney> just in time
<NCommander> give me a moment to get setup
 * NCommander just got his laptop powered on
<NCommander> morning dmart
<NCommander> ugh
<NCommander> the wiki is timing out
<NCommander> can someone post the wiki page?
<asac> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20100209#preview
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20100209#preview
<asac> oops
<asac> well
<asac> ;)
<asac> review doesnt hurt
<NCommander> thanks asac
<NCommander> ugh
<dmart> [LINK] http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/372469/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/372469/
<dmart> Oh, did the preview link work?
<asac> JamieBennett: GrueMaster: ogra: ping
<NCommander> [topic] Action Item Review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action Item Review
<ogra> moop
<NCommander> hey ogra
 * NCommander is lagging very badly
<JamieBennett> ere
 * asac tries to find ericm
<NCommander> [topic] * JamieBennett to complete imx51 backportng documentation on
<MootBot> New Topic:  * JamieBennett to complete imx51 backportng documentation on
<NCommander>        boot-speed.
<JamieBennett> I suck
<JamieBennett> need to do that still
<NCommander> [topic]  cooloney to investigate lucid kernel patches that may need back-porting.
<MootBot> New Topic:   cooloney to investigate lucid kernel patches that may need back-porting.
<ogra> i think thats mostly implemented now
<asac> yes
<ogra> and we had a meeting where he presented a list
<asac> cooloney: ?
<asac> anything you still have in the pipeline for the backports?
<cooloney> asac: i think some of them were merged
<cooloney> and uploaded
<ogra> today, yes
<cooloney> such as modules.builtin
<asac> cooloney: whats left?
<cooloney> populate_rootfs
<asac> or is all done?
 * ogra is eager to see todays kernel :)
<cooloney> ubuntu/ directory changes will be next
<ogra> i thought there were no relevant ones
<ogra> at least thats what i got in the meeting
<cooloney> and AppArmor as soon as jj provide the git tree
<cooloney> ogra: right,
<ogra> so lets leave that out
<ogra> which means only AA left
<NCommander> [topic] ericm and NCommander to investigate what causes the gnome-panel crash/restart cycle.
<MootBot> New Topic:  ericm and NCommander to investigate what causes the gnome-panel crash/restart cycle.
<cooloney> all the candidates were listed in the wiki page
<NCommander> oops, sorry
<asac> i think thats all fixed by our kernel patch
<asac> (gnome-panel etc.)
<ogra> well, lets see how its on the real HW they release :)
<NCommander> asac: gnome-panel? As far as we know,m but I didnt get to abuse the board :-)
<asac> on the AA topic: i think it was said that AA backports are not needed, but good to have
<ogra> that test board isnt really what we'll get, no ?
<asac> i think its safe to assume its fixed
<NCommander> I think we can say the same for the next action item
<ogra> asac, well, before cooloney idles in front of his desk ... its nice to have the AA backports :)
<asac> NCommander: gimme an action to tell ericm to smoke test the panel a bit
<asac> cooloney: so yeah. please backport the bitgs
<cooloney> ogra: right, and according to JJ, it is not very hard to do that
<plars> I tested for the gnome-panel crash for a while over the sprint, and was unable to reproduce with the latest round of kernels
<ogra> right
<NCommander> [action] ericm to smoke-test gnome-panel on dove x0 with kernel patches
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ericm to smoke-test gnome-panel on dove x0 with kernel patches
<NCommander> asac, ericm, and NCommander to talk about Thumb2 issues after the meeting and report back.
<asac> plars: thanks
<NCommander> er
<NCommander> [topic] asac, ericm, and NCommander to talk about Thumb2 issues after the meeting and report back.
<MootBot> New Topic:  asac, ericm, and NCommander to talk about Thumb2 issues after the meeting and report back.
<ogra> plars, on X0 or older HW ?
<plars> no, on Y1
<ogra> ah, very cool!
 * ogra takes back his staement from above then
<ogra> i thought we only had it gone on X0
<plars> but since we didn't have a perfect way to reproduce, and it didn't happen every time, it's also possible that I just got lucky
<NCommander> so on thumb2 issues, yX is hardware bugs and fubared. X0 with kernel patches is stable
 * NCommander fixed his spacebar!
<NCommander> woo
<NCommander> [topic] cooloney to ping fsl for more reliable chip rev checking method.
<MootBot> New Topic:  cooloney to ping fsl for more reliable chip rev checking method.
<StevenK> Apologies, I thought I already was in the channel
<cooloney> yeah, i think that is an old action
<ogra> yeah
<cooloney> i got confirmation from fsl already
<ogra> i asked last meeting to have it dropped
<cooloney> our patch about the chip rev is right.
<NCommander> ok then
<cooloney> and the uboot might have some patch to fix that
<NCommander> [topic] cooloney to ping fsl about suspend
<MootBot> New Topic:  cooloney to ping fsl about suspend
<ogra> it has
<ogra> same issue
<ogra> i asked to drop it
<ogra> works and all
<NCommander> cool!
<JamieBennett> woo
<NCommander> [topic] NCommander to investigate ericm's xorg naming bug
<MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander to investigate ericm's xorg naming bug
<cooloney> suspend actually no further feedback from fsl,
 * NCommander honestly has no idea what this AI was
<cooloney> thanks ogra
<NCommander> [topic] persia, asac, Gruemaster to discuss meeting rotation schedule and report back.
<MootBot> New Topic:  persia, asac, Gruemaster to discuss meeting rotation schedule and report back.
<cooloney> NCommander: lol
<asac> we didint reach consent on that
<asac> push forward
<NCommander> asac: c/o?
<asac> yes
<NCommander> asac: right, carry over :-)
<NCommander> [topic] Standing Items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Standing Items
 * persia failed completely, and sends out the appropriate email
<NCommander> The burndown chart page seems to be broken (or old link)
<GrueMaster> you have my full consent to move it to a more reasonable time for the PST timezone.
<asac> that url is broken
<NCommander> [topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, ericm)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Status (cooloney, ericm)
<asac> hey
<NCommander> asac: whats the right URL?
<asac> please start on top
<JamieBennett> NCommander yes its broken, use the people.u.c link
<cooloney> fsl kernel was uploaded today
<cooloney> it includes some backport features.
<asac> please use the last weeks wiki to start a new weeks wiki ;)
<asac> last one was people already?
<ogra> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-mobile.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-mobile.html
<asac> sorry. lets continue with kernel
<asac> because NCommander already started that
<asac> we can go back afte3r that
<asac> cooloney: go ahead
<ogra> we're so greeeen
<NCommander> ogra: green?
<ogra> (back to kernel, yeah)
<asac> heh
<cooloney> i'm working on the USB issue
<asac> great.
<asac> mine?
<cooloney> and ethernet issue
<ogra> yeha, me wouls love to see bug 457878 fixed
<asac> any ideas whats going on for the carrier thing?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 457878 in linux-fsl-imx51 "imx51 on board ethernet plug/unplug events not detected" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/457878
<ogra> *would even
<asac> cooloney: do you need help from fsl on that?
<cooloney> ogra: yeah, that is very annoy
<cooloney> asac: yeah, please help me to ping them.
<ogra> i personally think its not properly integrated with mii
<asac> cooloney: i will raise the ethernet issue on todays call
<cooloney> actually, i ping them before about this
<ogra> lets bring it up on the call
<cooloney> asac: cool
<asac> cooloney: can you forward me the mail you sent last time?
<asac> i will ensure they look
<cooloney> asac: ok, will do soon,
<cooloney> next time i will keep you in the loop
<asac> thx
<NCommander> ok to move onto burndown charts?
<asac> anything else on kernel?
<asac> ericm isnt here
<ogra> please test todays imx upload extensively
<NCommander> [topic] Burndown Chart
<MootBot> New Topic:  Burndown Chart
<asac> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-mobile.html
<NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-mobile.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-mobile.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-mobile.html
<ogra> we have some new features that were never tested before
<asac> oops ;)
<asac> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-mobile-lucid-alpha-3.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-mobile-lucid-alpha-3.html
 * NCommander kicks his lagging
<asac> so ... alpha-3 is what is our real goal
<asac> the full cycle chart is a bit lying to us
<asac> because stuff needs to be finishef by alpha-3
<ogra> bah
<ogra> but iots greener !
<ogra> *its
<NCommander> ugh
 * cooloney is apt-get upgrading on his board
<asac> yes. it gives us a false pov
<ogra> pfft
<NCommander> :-/
 * ogra likes the more positive pov
<StevenK> mobile-lucid-arm-une is waiting on everything else,
<asac> StevenK: waiting on what in particular?
<StevenK> Such as chromium, office suite, etc
 * NCommander agrees with ogra 
<asac> StevenK: those work items are in the other specs arent they?
<asac> imo we can kill them there
<asac>  GNOME games refactored and split: TODO
<asac> whats up with that?
<asac> can we set that to DONE?
<StevenK> asac: Right, but -arm-une has a work item for "drive all the other specs to completion"
<ogra> isnt that desktop team work anyway ?
<asac> and coordinate with -desktop team on the rest?
<asac> StevenK: document a high level summary of the arm UNE changes at the end of cycle: TODO
 * ogra fuels up StevenK 
<asac> that one should be targetted for lucid-beta-2
<asac> or so
<asac> let me do that
<StevenK> Excellent
<StevenK> I'll talk to seb about gnome-games tomorrow
<StevenK> Or someone in his timezone can, I don't mind
<asac> ok
<StevenK> Personally, I fail to see the point, the armel UNE images are *tiny*&
<asac> i am fine with setting that to done/postponed or assigning it to didrocks
<StevenK> s/&//
<asac> ok
<NCommander> StevenK: how tiny?
<asac> then lets set that to DONE
 * NCommander can't get on cdimage.u.c
<asac> in case we are happy with the current games
<ogra> NCommander, 500something
<asac> if not we might want to add more
<NCommander> ogra: wow.
 * NCommander wonders how much the langpacks are eating up though
<asac> plars: mobile-lucid-bringup-testing
<asac> is blocking on what?
<StevenK> NCommander: dove is 491, imx51 is 520
<StevenK> *tiny*
<ogra> we'll get gnumeric and abiword in the next one though
<ogra> that will grow a bit again
<StevenK> Sure, but I'm guessing only to 550 or so
<ogra> unless we keep out these changes
<GrueMaster> What is our image size limit?
<plars> asac: the implementation in checkbox is done, just need to do some testing of the images with it.  I will try to get to it this week, but I'm also hammering out other things
<NCommander> ogra: I thought we were moving to google docs
<StevenK> 1G
<ogra> GrueMaster, img has 1G iirc
<StevenK> In the code, anyway
<StevenK> davidm has been saying as small as possible
 * NCommander notes that can be changed if we have a valid reason to but IMHO, smaller images == doubleplusgood
<plars> such as the suspend resume, some transitioning of pairwise testing to its own iso tracker space, and getting the une-armel images setup for iso tracker for A3
<asac> ok
<asac> NCommander: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/mobile-lucid-arm-softboot-loader
<asac> still has one item open
<asac> kill or keep?
<asac> Retest kexec() on dove and imx51 final [3 hours]: TODO
<ogra> do we want to add as many langs to our images as possible btw ?
<plars> asac: is there something else I should do to mark mobile-lucid-bringup-testing done?
<NCommander> asac: need to poke someone with an imx51 board to test
<ogra> if we have so much space
<NCommander> asac: it failed on dove.
<davidm> image needs to stay under 700M
<NCommander> who wants the action item?
<ericm_> cooloney, how's kexec on imx51?
 * ogra will ask that later again in the image discussion
<davidm> Needs to fit a CD
<asac> NCommander: please give us instructions
<ogra> davidm, huh ?
<ogra> davidm, it cant
<StevenK> davidm: I'm happy to tread on the code to enforce that
<asac> plars: only what is left in the WIs
<ogra> davidm, armel img ... SD card images ... CD doesnt make any sense
<asac> plars: "Write a script to pull in arm specific system information (i.e. uboot version): TODO"
<asac> if you cant do that, postpone
<StevenK> Actually, it probably needs to be a little smaller, like 650, if you want to actually burn the .img itself to a CD
<davidm> ogra, Cd is only cheap way to ship images that can then be installed to USB stick
<persia> CD *does* make sense.  While not many boards can boot from CD, being able to put the image on a CD significantly eases distribution.
<plars> asac: ah, well I was going to just mark that one done (forgot about it actually) since we're pulling in all we can right now.  We can revisit later if more things become available
<ogra> davidm, DVD works too, no ?
<NCommander> ogra: DVD blanks cost more
<davidm> ogra, more expensive
<asac> plars: ok. then its done - implemented
<NCommander> and DVD burners are not ubiquious yet
<cooloney> ericm_: i did not test yet, it is supposed to fail, heh
<ogra> a few cents
<dmart> IMHO, >= 650MB does not qualify as "as small as possible" --- so fitting on a CD should not be a problem
<NCommander> cooloney: ouch. why?
<persia> ogra: Adds up when multiplied by a very large number :)
<asac> plars: i set it done
<StevenK> davidm: Does 520 quality? :-)
<cooloney> NCommander: oh, i got a bug about that.
<StevenK> Er, qualify
<ogra> dmart, its a question of languages we ship
 * ogra would prefer to ship more langs
<NCommander> cooloney: so can I kill to action item to test kexec on ARM?
<StevenK> Sorry, I'm fading fast, not quite in the Australian timezone yet
<cooloney> NCommander: just try to fix it, heh,
<asac> we can ship 700M
<ogra> sure
<dmart> ogra, ~ how much space does each lang take?
<ogra> its just a waste imho
<asac> please fill it up with as many langs as possible
<NCommander> cooloney: ENOIMX51HW
<asac> StevenK: can you do that programatically?
<StevenK> Roughly 15MB or so
<NCommander> Can we take this off the meeting, and come back with a resolution?
<cooloney> NCommander: ok, let me do it
<ogra> dmart, depends on the language, but an average of 15M might be the number here
<dmart> Filling up any space on a CD with langs is OK; its the size of the typical install we care about
<StevenK> asac: No, it involes handwavy crap, and I need to make sure I don't step on the i386 image
<cooloney> ericm_: it might be a common feature missing on ARM v7
<ogra> i.e. chinese is a lot bigger than german
<asac> StevenK: ok. so lets do that before beta and RC/final
<ericm_> cooloney, someone reported a success on omap
<StevenK> I can start doing that now
<ogra> dmart, right thats below 600M anyway
<StevenK> I can also fix the code to cry if it's above say, 600MB?
<dmart> sure
<ogra> for the live image
<asac> [ACTION] StevenK to talk to pitti how to fill up armel img with langs without busting i386
<StevenK> I don't need pitti
<cooloney> ericm_: is that because they applied the patches from Tony you posted to me?
<StevenK> I just need to do it
<ogra> right
<ericm_> cooloney, exactly
<asac> StevenK: then skip the pitti part
<ogra> just a simple seed change
<asac> ;)
<ogra> and a matter of us selecting which langs
<StevenK> [ACTION] StevenK to fill up armel img with langs without busting i386
<StevenK> NCommander: ^
<cooloney> ericm_: good, so i think we can file are bug named kexec fails on ARM v7
<NCommander> [ACTION] StevenK to fill armel image with lang packs without breaking i386/amd64
<MootBot> ACTION received:  StevenK to fill armel image with lang packs without breaking i386/amd64
<ogra> [action] team to discuss which langs we want to ship
<ogra> NCommander, ^^^
<ogra> :)
<NCommander> anyway
<cooloney> ericm_: then mark fsl, mvl and versatile v7 kexec bug as duplicated
<ericm_> NCommander, maybe we'll wait cooloney to see the result to kill soft-boot-loader or not, most likely not able to get this into lucid
<StevenK> We don't build UNE for amd64, fail
<asac> ogra: thats a none issue
<NCommander> [action] Team to discuss langs to ship on armel images by default
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Team to discuss langs to ship on armel images by default
<ogra> asac, why ?
<NCommander> Ok, people
<NCommander> we're getting off topic
<asac> because we follow the same fill up algorithm that is used by desktoP/une
<ogra> asac, we cant ship all, so we need to make a pick
<StevenK> So, shall I also change the code for .img oversize?
<asac> ogra: there are rules
<ogra> asac, but we can ship a lot more
 * StevenK votes for tlh
<ogra> asac, there are
<asac> ogra: there are rules ;)
<NCommander> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster, plars)
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster, plars)
<ogra> ?
<plars> The pairwise install testing has a place now on iso tracker
<asac> ogra: lets discuss that offline.
<ogra> yeah
<asac> plars: great
<GrueMaster> Not much to report image wise, as we haven't had a new image since last week.
<plars> And has been announced on the mailing list
<plars> but...
<plars> it's moving (kinda)
<asac> GrueMaster: ok
<plars> [LINK] http://pairwise.qa.ubuntu.com/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://pairwise.qa.ubuntu.com/
<plars> I just got that this morning
<asac> GrueMaster: did you make progress on a standardized weekly QA report?
<plars> so I'll be transitioning the tests over it today, most likely
<GrueMaster> Not yet.
<asac> GrueMaster: ok. just think about it. and maybe present it at next week meeting.
<plars> once that's done, we can run the tests off of there full time, rather than having to tip-toe around milestone testing
<GrueMaster> Since the image has changed from Desktop to UNE, testing will change quite a bit (other than install testing)
<asac> plars: will the QA team also do that for other archs?
<StevenK> asac: WRT -arm-une, there is no -beta-2 milestone
<asac> StevenK: i used beta-1
<ogra> there should be
<asac> if i did a typo, please fix that
<plars> asac: I haven't heard for certain what their plans are for that, for now, it's only on armel
<plars> but that will still benefit all archs
<asac> and yes, there is a beta-2
<plars> to some degree at least
<asac> plars: ok. lets show them how well it works
<asac> ;)
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Application status (JamieBennett, dyfet)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Application status (JamieBennett, dyfet)
<JamieBennett> Looking fine, we have the 2D launcher UI (with a few bugs) and 33% faster live-cd boots ;) !
<asac> \o/
<StevenK> I have a drop-down for setting the milestone, and beta-2 isn't it
<NCommander> \o/
<asac> JamieBennett: can you make a few screenshots of both themes?
<asac> i would like to blog about it
<NCommander> JamieBennett: thats a win.
<JamieBennett> asac: Will do
<ogra> JamieBennett, did you find anything about the new casper issues ?
<asac> thx
<StevenK> We have failing images currently, due to new components from the DX team
<JamieBennett> I'll blog about speedups too
<ogra> yay
<JamieBennett> ogra: no, started on it yesterday but got pulled into something else
<asac> JamieBennett: are you on planet?
<StevenK> Which is now blocked on mono
<ogra> JamieBennett, you are on planet, right ?
<ogra> heh
<ogra> snap
<JamieBennett> no
<ogra> get there first !
<JamieBennett> you have to be an ubuntu member no?
<NCommander> ogra: he has to be an Ubuntu Member to be on planet I believe
<ogra> hrm, right
 * NCommander is hearing an echo in here this morning
<JamieBennett> I'm on a few other planets
<asac> ok
<asac> just blog and let me know
<asac> i can forward it
<JamieBennett> OK
<ogra> yeah, we can all link to it
<JamieBennett> :)
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)
<asac> ok lightweight browser spec isnt decided yet
 * ogra sees us all owning planet for a day all postin the same link :)
<asac> NCommander: thanks for moving so quickly
<StevenK> Ahhh, it's Ubuntu ubuntu-10.04-beta-2
<asac> dmart: can we discuss the feature comparison?
<asac> for lightweight browser?
<NCommander> asac: I'm trying to organize chaos^W the meeting
<dmart> asac, did you need more from me on lightweight browser?  I think I'd done all I can do for now...
<asac> dmart: you sent startup time?
<asac> comparison?
 * asac has to make a wiki out of it
<dmart> Hmmm, maybe not
<dyfet> And I am working on mov related items in the ftbfs
<dmart> asac, do you want to continue that one offline?
<asac> dmart: startup time is an importnat one  ... would be great if you could get that
<asac> dmart: yes
<NCommander> python-qt4 was cleared last week
<asac> dmart: lets dot hat after this meeting
<dyfet> as was boost
<NCommander> Which should unblock KDE which should make the FTBFS list a lot happier after 4.4 hits the archive
<dmart> asac, OK
<asac> NCommander: moving quickly doesnt help removing chaos
<asac> NCommander: you just start a new topic
<asac> while another is still ongoing -> more chaos
<ogra> NCommander, where is my since two weeks promised likewise bug for the server team ???
 * StevenK watches the mono build with interest
 * ogra really just wants that bug
<NCommander> ogra: still ongoing. I filed a bug on it
<ogra> # ?
<StevenK> You filed on a bug about that you need to file a bug?
<ogra> heh
<NCommander> ogra: don't have it handy (I'm having some connectivity issues, LP is going about as fast as molasses in winter ATM)
<ogra> apparently
<StevenK> Isn't that somewhat ... circular?
<asac> on arm porting we finished all swp to thumb2 ports
<asac> we are now moving to the "mov" bugs
<asac> dyfet: are oyu on that?
<dyfet> yes
<NCommander> asac: maybe we should do another mass bug filing and then split the bugs up
<asac> dyfet: want me to give you chunks or will you jus finish?
<dyfet> well, if you want to assign specific ones to do first, that would be okay
<ogra> is there any deadline when we *have* to have that ?
<asac> dyfet: ok i will assign you a couple for today and tomorrow
<dyfet> cool :)
<asac> dyfet: i think getting the list down to just a couple this week should be possible
<asac> and needed
<asac> NCommander: we already have bugs for the porting stuff
<asac> NCommander: want to help?
<asac> i will assing you a couple of bugs if so
<asac> guess makes sense as you cant really do much for dove atm
<NCommander> asac: sure, although I'm limited to the porting box and dyfet's boards
<asac> [action] asac to assign thumb2 porting bugs to team
<asac> NCommander: thats ok
<NCommander> [action] asaca to assign thumb2 porting bugs to team
<MootBot> ACTION received:  asaca to assign thumb2 porting bugs to team
<dmart> Related to this, I was wondering whether a kind of sprint on the Thumb-2 issues would be a good idea --- I tacked it on the end of the agenda.
<ogra> didnt we have a spare babbage at the sprint ?
<NCommander> dmart: we'll get to that at ABO
<dmart> ok
<NCommander> ogra: one was dead, and one went with StevenK
<ogra> ah, i mean the dead one possibly
<NCommander> ogra: TBH, I forgot where the dead one went
<asac> dmart: you mean a real world sprint?
<asac> or irc sprints?
<dmart> asac, irc was my first thought
<asac> yeah
<JamieBennett> dead one went to GrueMaster
<asac> we can do that
<JamieBennett> StevenK took one and NCommander took one too
<NCommander> JamieBennett: I didn't take one
<NCommander> at least
<NCommander> I don't think I did
<StevenK> persia did
<asac> [action] asac to organize couple of sprints on thumb2 porting issues and get team attend/contribute
<ogra> dmart, asac, though a real world one around beta time would probably bee a good isea as well
<persia> I received one: maybe that's the one NCommander took
<ogra> *idea
<asac> ogra: lets make that depending on how well we perform
<JamieBennett> Ah persioa took the 2.5 then
<ogra> yeah, indeed
<asac> but yes. we can keep that option i think
<dmart> ok, we can discuss further later
<asac> 14:44 < asac> [action] asac to organize couple of sprints on thumb2 porting issues and get team attend/contribute
<asac> NCommander: ^^
<NCommander> [action] asac to organize sprints on thumb2 porting issues and get the team to attend/contribute
<MootBot> ACTION received:  asac to organize sprints on thumb2 porting issues and get the team to attend/contribute
<asac> ok
<NCommander> got it
<asac> next topic?
<NCommander> [topic] Ubuntu Liquid
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Liquid
<ian_brasil> we have been asked to stop public work on plasma-mobile..the reasoning went something like -> "The product is immature, and doesn't offer significant advancement over plasma-netbook at this time.  We expect significant improvements soon, and want to avoid bothering users with the incompatible transition.
<asac> ok
<asac> ian_brasil: so even not in univeres?
<persia> So, while we might end up with some bits and bobs, it's not expected to have something installable for lucid.
<asac> or just not an image?
<persia> Not an image, and quite possibly not a -meta
<persia> (still looking at alternatives)
<asac> but all the bits and pieces?
<ian_brasil> we wanted your opinions on what to do
<ian_brasil> we thought about continuing in a PPA
<asac> i would say that we should try to get all the bits and pieces in universe
<NCommander> I say have a meta as a developers preview
<asac> if thats possible
<persia> Not necessarily, because upstream doesn't want some stuff shipped, and it messes up other stuff.
<asac> but keep meta and image postponed
<ogra> task would be cool
<persia> Look for more with lucid+1, but for now, kubuntu-netbook is probably the closest thing.
<ogra> then you could just use the alternate installer or rootstock
<asac> task is probably not going to fly
<asac> ian_brasil: so can you check if you can get all the individual pieces in? if not, we can do that in appa
<asac> ppa
<asac> i agree
<asac> we can also think about -meta in ppa ... if thats ok
<asac> -meta/task
<ian_brasil> all the pieces minus plasma-mobile
<persia> tasks in PPAs are hard, but metas are easy.
<persia> We can do a meta with plasma-netbook, maybe.
 * NCommander can assist with making a meta
<ian_brasil> NCommander, great
<ian_brasil> so we continue as normal just minus plasma-mobile?
<asac> ian_brasil: right. so go ahead and get everything in that you can get in and do the rest in a ppa (if possible) ... document the location of that PPA in the spec
<ogra> yeah, if done properly you just need to move the seeds later
<ogra> to have the meta in the archive
<ian_brasil> that sounds great
<asac> ok good
<asac> anything else on liquid?
<ian_brasil> asac, no
<NCommander> [topic] Any Other Business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any Other Business
<StevenK> Sleep
<asac> i think we already covered the sprint thing
<NCommander> Just a headsup
<asac> shoot
<NCommander> I'm not going to be online this morning
<ogra> i think we already covered everything in the chaos :P
<ogra> NCommander, please send me that bug # before going afk
<NCommander> I'll be in Boston for this afternoon and probably 1-2 days afterwords; long story.
<asac> ok
<dmart> asac: (i think we already covered the sprint thing) agreed - we can follow up after this meeting
<asac> what does that mean?
<asac> NCommander: so you take a few vacation days?
 * NCommander is sitting in his car with his cell phone to be here
<NCommander> asac: no, working as normal, just not home
<asac> NCommander: working as normal with a cell phone?
<NCommander> asac: I didn't make it to Boston yet. I tethered my laptop to my phone to sign into the meeting :-)
<NCommander> Hence the lag.
<asac> hmm
<NCommander> and my laptop is propped up on the steering wheel
<asac> please take vacation or swap day if you travel ;)
<asac> anyway thanks for the heads iup
<asac> NCommander: please add your AR
<JamieBennett> :)
<NCommander> asac: well, if everything went as planned, it would have been unnoticable
<asac> everyone else ... please add your activity
<NCommander> But I had a bit of car trouble
<NCommander> That's why I'm out this morning (I'll be swapping it out)
<asac> ok
<asac> NCommander: remember to add your AR ...
<asac> now
<ogra> and the bug #
<NCommander> asac: I'm doing so now
<StevenK> NCommander: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/B000IZGIA8/ref=dp_otherviews_3?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&img=3
<asac> everony else ... please add AR ... JamieBennett will send out the report in a few hours
<asac> ;)
<JamieBennett> will do
<ogra> StevenK, heh, that need sa special steering wheel, no ?
<asac> ogra: thougth you had frinished your AR ... where is it?
<persia> StevenK: Please don't encourage that sort of thing :p
<StevenK> ogra: Not that I've seen
<ogra> in your inbox since pre-meeting ?
<asac> ogra: kk
<JamieBennett> asac: sent to me
<NCommander> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 07:55.
<asac> thanks all
<ogra> thanks
<StevenK> persia: Spoil all my fun
<kees> \o
<pitti> o/
<kees> heya pitti
<cjwatson> I'm here, just addressing an urgent coffee shortage but please start without me
<pitti> heh
<pitti> Keybuk: you were voluntold to chair today, are you here?
<cjwatson> ...
<pitti> ok, mdz is in the air
<pitti> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:02. The chair is pitti.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<pitti> so it's just the thee of us now
<kees> whee
<pitti> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
<pitti> [TOPIC] Archive reorganisation
<MootBot> New Topic:  Archive reorganisation
<pitti> Review https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Specs/LucidMOTU
<pitti> that was discussed in detail two weeks ago, wasn't it?
<kees> the thought was that if anything came up about the docs between then and now, we could discuss it now
<kees> afaik, nothing has come up, so this item is done.
<pitti> cjwatson, ScottK: did anything new come up in the last two week?
<pitti> kees: AFAICS yes, but let's check
<kees> sure
<pitti> * Confirm that DeveloperMembershipBoard  now hears applications for MOTU
<pitti> that was officially moved over in last week's DMB meeting, which was the first with the new board
<cjwatson> pitti: yes
<cjwatson> wait, your statement there isn't quite accurate but let us go in order?
<persia> Was it officially so moved?  My understanding was that the DMB was hearing the applications because MC doesn't have quorum.
 * cjwatson can't type fast enough damnit
<cjwatson> order
 * pitti backs up
<pitti> persia: I misunderstood it then
<cjwatson> we revised LucidMOTU a bit, and presented it to the DMB for approval there; the details about motu-council have been split off for discussion among its constituency (i.e. MOTU)
 * persia suspects all will become clear after the backup
<cjwatson> the DMB approved it, but I'd like the TB to approve it as well just so that we're all absolutely clear
<sabdfl> hello all, apologies for my tardiness
<pitti> hey sabdfl
<pitti> AFAICS https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Specs/LucidMOTU isn't very clear on whether approvals are handled by DMB or the MOTU body (or MC) themselves
<cjwatson> hah, that's the next item on the agenda :)
<cjwatson> 15:08 <cjwatson> we revised LucidMOTU a bit, and presented it to the DMB for approval there; the details about motu-council have been split off for discussion among its constituency (i.e. MOTU)
<cjwatson> 15:08 <cjwatson> the DMB approved it, but I'd like the TB to approve it as well just so that we're all absolutely clear
<cjwatson> sabdfl: ^-
<sabdfl> hmmk... i'm +0 on this
<pitti> it seems a bit strange to me that DMB would handle applications which have both more and less power than MOTUs (contributing developer, per-package-uploader, and core-dev)
<Keybuk> pitti: I'm on leave (laundry day)
<persia> My understanding was that the DMB handled all applications not otherwise delegated.
<pitti> but if there's sufficient reason for this, I don't have a strong objection
<Keybuk> which proves you should (a) check the calendar before volunteering someone and (b) actually tell them if you do :p
<cjwatson> Keybuk: you don't read ubuntu-devel-announce? O:-)
<Keybuk> cjwatson: not while I'm on leave
<cjwatson> pitti: (in fact my understanding is that the DMB *does* approve MOTUs, but that is the next agenda item, not this one)
<pitti> ok, since the topic merely says "review", not "approve", why not go to that then
<pitti> [TOPIC] Confirm that DeveloperMembershipBoard  now hears applications for MOTU
<MootBot> New Topic:  Confirm that DeveloperMembershipBoard  now hears applications for MOTU
<sabdfl> the doc says:
<persia> I'd have fully agreed with this item until the 22nd December DMB Meeting, when I was advised to document MOTU as a delegated team.
<sabdfl> MOTU shall continue to fulfil the following functions:
<cjwatson> so it was my understanding from doing the whole "invite everyone in motu-council to stand for the DMB if they want" thing that this was a fait accompli
<cjwatson> but apparently there is some confusion about this
<sabdfl>   o developer approvals (restricted to within MOTU)
<cjwatson> sabdfl: err, hmm
<sabdfl> which sounds like "we tend to our own flock", which is fine by me, but counter to what's being said here
<pitti> at the same time, "MOTU Function Analysis" says
<pitti> Developer approvals: distribute
 * cjwatson wasn't at that meeting :-)
<persia> pitti: In the old world, MC heard applications for Contributing Developers, MOTU, and core-dev.
<sabdfl> pitti: my interpretation is that's not insistent
<pitti> that's what I meant with "this document is not clear about approvals"
 * cjwatson reads the log
<sabdfl> i.e. MC get to approve new MOTU, DMB would hear from them when folks want explicit upload to core or another package set
<sabdfl>  (or when they want to create a package set)
<persia> Can we separate the package-set-creation bit from that for now?  I think there's confusion there as well.
<pitti> so by default DMB does everything, and just like ubuntu-desktop or mythbuntu-dev, the MC has _also_ the power to appoint MOTU, since it's a delegated team?
<dholbach> whatever the spec says I think it makes a lot of sense that the DMB takes care of all these applications, the "DMB/MC merge" wouldn't make much sense without that :)
<cjwatson> from reading the meeting log, I do not get the impression that people were explicitly thinking that they were saying that the MC should continue to handle MOTU approvals
<cjwatson> at least it doesn't read that way to me
<cjwatson> the question was phrased in a rather more abstruse way :)
<kees> my understanding as well was that DMB was doing the MOTU approvals now too
<pitti> so it seems that persia, sabdfl, cjwatson, kees, and me all seem to agree on that
<pitti> and that just some cleanup on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Specs/LucidMOTU is in order?
<cjwatson> now that the DMB includes a large number of members with significant MOTU experience (more than TB historically had) it seems to me that now is an excellent time to fix the bug wherein core-dev and MOTU had to apply to different bodies
<persia> pitti: I think the only point of confusion is as to whether MC is *also* delegated the right to do so.
<pitti> persia: my gut feeling would say yes, to be consistent with other delegated teams; WDYT?
<cjwatson> and that making MC and DMB both do approvals after putting a good deal of effort into making the latter the successor of the former for the purposes of developer approvals, seems odd to me
<persia> pitti: That's my sense as well.  I don't think that's cjwatson's sense.
<cjwatson> I would rather that the DMB took responsibility for both
<cjwatson> (core-dev and motu)
<sabdfl> i don't think it makes sense to do either/or
<cjwatson> pitti: it is not my belief that the DMB has the power to appoint new members of ubuntu-desktop
<sabdfl> in other words, it should be clear who can appoint new MOTU
<cjwatson> my understanding is that the DMB is delegated specific authority by the TB for the purposes of appointing new core-dev members, and (subject to this discussion) MOTU
<pitti> cjwatson: no, but ubuntu-desktop can appoint new developers
<cjwatson> indeed ...
<cjwatson> 15:19 <pitti> so by default DMB does everything, and just like ubuntu-desktop or mythbuntu-dev, the MC has _also_ the power to appoint MOTU, since it's a delegated team?
<cjwatson> I'm disagreeing with "by default DMB does everything"
<cjwatson> and I agree with sabdfl that there should be precisely one point of entry for each team
<sabdfl> the original point was that MC and DMB would merge, and we wouldn't have MOTU
<pitti> that condition doesn't contradict with MCs appointing (nor not) MOTUs
<sabdfl> folks expressed a strong interest in keeping it, which is OK
<kees> since MOTU is larger in function (similar to core-dev) than the other teams, it seems okay to me for DMB to be the single body doing MOTU appointments
<sabdfl> but we want to avoid a situation where it becomes a source of tension
<cjwatson> I haven't interpreted this as an actual point of tension
<sabdfl> so, I'll come down firmly +1 on DMB for all developer applications
<cjwatson> it seems to me that there is some confusion, but we don't have a situation where the old MC is saying "but we want to keep on approving MOTUs" or anything like that
<cjwatson> it's more a "so how is this org chart *actually* laid out?" kind of conversation
<sabdfl> the only upside to me with delegating MOTU is that i think there's an argument for taking more risk on new contributors in MOTU
<sabdfl> and i think it will be hard for one body to get that right, i.e. be toughest on core-dev and generous on MOTU
<pitti> sabdfl: that risk can be handled just as well in DMB, I think
<cjwatson> I think the DMB can probably manage to get themselves into different headspaces for that - there's per-package uploaders to handle to, frex
<pitti> it already needs to do that
<sabdfl> if the DMB can handle that, so it doesn't block the flow of new talent into new parts of the platform, then i think we should consolidate around DMB
<pitti> the bar should be much higher for an aspiring core-dev than a package uploader
<pitti> ^ +1
<sabdfl> ok, then +1 to DMB handling all permissions
<kees> +1 on DMB-only
<dholbach> I agree with cjwatson that the DMB should be able to handle it - while the MC did not have the final say on core-dev applications, they still reviewed member, motu and core-dev applications and there's lots of people on the board with lots of experience in the various developer communities
<persia> kees: And abolish the other developer approval groups entirely?
<cjwatson> all permissions> well, aside from ones we've already delegated, right?
<cjwatson> like ubuntu-desktop, kubuntu, mythbuntu
<cjwatson> for those a specialist body can do a better job
<kees> persia: hrm? no, I meant core-dev and MOTU.
<pitti> kees: (and per-package uploader)
<kees> I meant "only" in the DMB vs MC context
<kees> pitti: right
<pitti> so,  hearing and approvals for MOTU will now be exclusively done by the DMB
<pitti> ?
<kees> +1
<pitti> let's format that properly
<pitti> [VOTE] Hearing and approvals for MOTU will now be exclusively done by the DMB
<cjwatson> pitti: we have a lot of crosstalk here - can we explicitly vote on something like "DMB to exclusively handle all ubuntu-core-dev, motu, universe-contributors, and per-package uploaders"?
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Hearing and approvals for MOTU will now be exclusively done by the DMB.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<cjwatson> ok, that'll do for starters :)
<cjwatson> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<kees> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from kees. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<pitti> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from pitti. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<sabdfl> hmm... that's interesting, i forgot, we've actually delegated management of those teams, to admins of those teams
<cjwatson> sabdfl: right.  the situation of MOTU was in some question, hence this discussion
<sabdfl> hmm. sorry. i need to think a sec.
<persia> MOTU is potentiall "special".  Were it not special, we wouldn't need the discussion :)
<persia> s/potentiall/potentially/
<pitti> cjwatson: I thought restricting the vote to MOTU would make more sense, since DMB already exclusively approves core-dev and per-package uploaders
<kees> that's my thinking as well.  core-dev and MOTU are special in the world of delegated teams.
<sabdfl> cjwatson: there will be many potential entry points, then, DMB or any of the admins of the delegated teams?
<pitti> sabdfl: right; wasn't that one of the main points of dsitributed teams?
<persia> kees: "as well" may not be applicable, since I don't think MOTU needs to be special :)
<cjwatson> for somebody seeking entrance to a given team, I think there should be precisely one entry point
<sabdfl> and what's the argument for treating MOTU differently than, say, gnome-desktop?
<persia> cjwatson: Shall we not have fallback in the case where some group is unable to follow the current process?
<cjwatson> for somebody seeking entrance to Ubuntu development in general, I would say that it makes sense for the entry points to depend somewhat upon one's interests; the kubuntu team is much better able to judge the people they work with, because they're a smaller specialised team
<cjwatson> but motu is (a) big and (b) general
<sabdfl> so, MOTU and core-dev are both general and big
<persia> cjwatson: For instance, if the ubuntu-desktop team is, for some reason, unable to reach a quorate state to accept a new member, fall back to the DMB?
<kees> sabdfl: my thought is that gnome-desktop is very focused (as far as package upload rights), where as core-dev and MOTU are not.
<cjwatson> the sorts of things that one judges in new members of each are essentially the same
<cjwatson> the only difference is basically quantitative (experience level) rather than qualitative (type of experience)
<sabdfl> persia: and your argument for delegating this too, is?
<cjwatson> persia: an appeals board?  that's not something we'd discussed before.  I think CC/TB would be more appropriate there
<persia> cjwatson: Works.  I just don't think single-point is necessarily sufficient.
<pitti> if some of the delegated teams suddenly stop working, then I think this should be brought up to the TB
<pitti> instead of worked around by redirecting an application
<persia> sabdfl: The main reason I think it makes sense to allow the MC to do it is because it helps MOTU to have sense of self-governance.
<pitti> since then we need to fix the entire delegation IMHO
<sabdfl> persia: i don't think someone could reasonably expect DMB to put them into a gnome-desktop uploaders team. they could ask for either (a) the gnome-desktop admins to be changed, or (b) to be admitted to the core-dev team
<cjwatson> persia: wait, so you do genuinely have a beef about taking this away from the MC?  from our IRL discussions last week, I got the impression that it was mainly a procedural question.
<cjwatson> persia: or do you mean the appeals bit, not new applications?
<sabdfl> persia: that self-governance has been both a good thing and a blocker in the past
<persia> cjwatson: Two separate bits: 1) I think there is value to MC having self governance.  My apologies if I was not clear.  2) For appeals, I have less of an opinion on the appropriate body.
<cjwatson> persia: so, as a member of the DMB, do you or do you not feel that the DMB should be voting on new MOTUs?
<cjwatson> because you sure didn't mention this when voting on a MOTU last week :-)
<persia> sabdfl: If it isn't the case that the DMB can oversee approvals to delegated teams, I think that it's worth making sure that it's well documented that the delegation to the delegated teams stems from the TB, rather than the DMB.
<sabdfl> persia: i thought bringing the MC into the DMB so strongly was a good result, and am worried that we're setting ourselves up for more inconsistencies in future
<dholbach> I think by having various ways to get upload rights, we miss an opportunity to simplify processes by merging and unifying (which is what we set out to do with permissions reorg) - it's not just the application process, but lots of other bits that diverged into different directions because of separated communities
<cjwatson> (which vote incidentally is pending, not yet approved)
<persia> sabdfl: I agree that the delegation to MC has been a blocker in the past, but I'd argue that this should have been considered an issue with the extant MC, rather than with the idea of an MC.
<pitti> persia: hm, why did we unite the DMB in the first place then?
<persia> dholbach: We already have lots of ways to get upload rights, through the delegated teams.
<cjwatson> let's have different ways to get upload rights when it makes sense, and not when it doesn't
<persia> pitti: I've never quite understood that, to be honest, although I did think that having Contributing Developers and Core Developers first apply to the MC was redundant.
<dholbach> we're diluting more and more what permissions reorg set out to do
<cjwatson> I don't think we need to be all Highlander about it, but there are some cases where people have to ask a few too many different groups for approval
<persia> dholbach: I'm very confident that permissions reorg set out to delegate and separate to more people :)
<cjwatson> permissions reorg set out to delegate where the delegation was valuable, and unite where the delegation was unnecessarily divisive
<persia> People should *definitely* only have to ask one group to get their access.  The multiple group path is awkward and causes unnecessary delays.
<sabdfl> cjwatson: if we delegate to MC for MOTU membership, then there's only one place for MOTU membership
<pitti> well, the point was to move away from a main/universe split towards a topic/product based split, wasn't it? so the question would be if the MOTU activities are homogenous enough to fit into this "topic" schema
<dholbach> I agree with cjwatson, the goal of permissions reorg was not to have a desktop-release team or a kubuntu-sru team or a separate sponsoring process for mythbuntu or a different idea of how NEW packages are dealt with in the server team
<persia> pitti: Part of how I erad MOTULucid was an attempt to define that topic.
<cjwatson> sabdfl: yes; that I think would be a good thing
<persia> dholbach: I don't think anyone is arguing for a proliferation of release or sru teams.
<pitti> well, the voting is pending on sabdfl's vote now (we don't have a quorum with the +1 yet)
<pitti> persia: do you think the desire to appoint new MOTUs by the MC is representative of the MOTU crowd?
<dholbach> persia: I'm just saying that permissions reorg didn't set out to separate people more
<cjwatson> pitti: right, my feeling is based precisely on the fact that I feel the topic of MOTU and core-dev are the same, although they have different associated levels of experience
<pitti> or should we rather ask the MC before we continue the vote here?
<sabdfl> here's a straw man: we consolidate around DMB now, with a view to reviewing and delegating this if (a) the MOTU feels like DMB is blocking folks who would make good MOTU, or (b) the workload grows to the point that DMB wants MC to handle half of it
<pitti> cjwatson: same for me
<sabdfl> persia: ^?
<cjwatson> (BTW if (b) happens at least in the next year or two then I think the DMB is failing somehow)
<persia> pitti: I don't think that MOTU has completed discussion about MC.  Many of the individual MOTU with whom I have spoken have been disspritied about ArchiveReorg in general, and I think it will take some time for there to be an MC that represents MOTU.
<cjwatson> I think people have been disspirited due to mixed messages
<persia> sabdfl: I'd be very happy with that, if we could add 3) that MOTU defines an MC and applies to DMB to request administration (or applies to the TB, depending)
<cjwatson> representing stuff that was discussed and discarded a year ago
<persia> I don't think the current rump MC is either representative of a future MOTU nor a current suitable delegate.
<persia> cjwatson: I think you're right.
<pitti> I like that strawman, too
<cjwatson> I am also fine with sabdfl's strawman, leaving aside my parenthetical comment
<pitti> i. e. DMB handles them now, and if MC asks for that (if they want approvals back), DMB can delegate it again
<cjwatson> particularly since that lets us move forward now in a non-irreversible way
<kees> yeah, strawman plus persia's addition seems like a good way to move forward and have guidelines on changes in the future, if needed.
<pitti> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 3
<pitti> that didn't reach quorum
<sabdfl> persia: would it help if we invited the MOTU to chat with the CC, or TB, or just me?
<pitti> [VOTE] Hearing and approvals for MOTU will now be exclusively done by the DMB, with the option of delegating it to the MC upon request and voting in the future
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Hearing and approvals for MOTU will now be exclusively done by the DMB, with the option of delegating it to the MC upon request and voting in the future.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<sabdfl> i think ArchiveReorg should be empowering, and want a chance to make the case if it will help
<cjwatson> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<kees> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from kees. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<pitti> ++1
<cjwatson> empowering> yes!  I think that is a message I have failed to convey
<persia> sabdfl: There's an action item outstanding from the DMB meeting for MOTU to discuss the future of MC.  IF that doesn't work, something organised with another body may help.  My main interest is to have a path for the future, rather than an immediate solution.
<pitti> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from pitti. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<cjwatson> the whole point was to clear away unnecessary barriers, not to take away people's toys
<sabdfl> persia: i'm happy to spend an hour in #motu answering questions. i'd like folks to be motivated, and want to understand what's got them down
<cjwatson> (that is not intended to sound patronising; I hope people get the idea)
<pitti> sabdfl: your vote?
<persia> sabdfl: OK.  If there isn't some useful discussion soon, I'll see if I can organise a MOTU Meeting to discuss it.
<cjwatson> I think we made a mistake in not reacting sufficiently quickly and clearly to the concerns about the earliest archive reorg models
<sabdfl> persia: what do you mean by (3)? that MC would be formed and the request for delegation happen regardless of (a) and (b) ?
<persia> sabdfl: That if there is an MC desired by MOTU, that that MC would be able to request delegation to approve MOTU.
<cjwatson> the DMB certainly has not acquired all the functions of the historical MC, and there is currently a debate among MOTU about whether MC is still needed and if so in what form
<cjwatson> I asked for that discussion to be split out from this one to avoid blocking it
<persia> And yes, regardless of (a) and (b).  The request may not be approved, but I think it should be noted as available.
<sabdfl> persia: the straw man says "we'll only do that if there is a problem". your (3) says "we plan to do that"
<cjwatson> could I try to clarify the disagreement here?
<persia> sabdfl: I'd prefer "we will hear such an application" to "we plan to do that".
<pitti> and the current voting now explicitly mentions the option of delegating it back later on
<persia> sabdfl: I don't assume that some future MC may be acceptable as a delegate.
<cjwatson> the discussion about establishing (or revamping) the MC is not explicitly about delegating approvals to it
<sabdfl> i don't want to merely defer the discussion. if folks go to the trouble of picking an MC, and sending in the request, they'll be committed to it. i would rather we only have to debate this again if the DMB concretely fails on (a) or (b)
<kees> right, I voted based on "an option" not "it will happen"
<cjwatson> it's about the other functions of MC, such as organisation, dispute resolution, etc.
<sabdfl> persia: it would be very bad, socially, if the MOTU picked an MC, and the DMB then refused to delegate to it
<dholbach> the "ongoing discussion about the necessity of an MC" has not started among MOTU yet, at least not on any mailing list
<sabdfl> i would rather we commit to moving forward with DMB as the responsible admin for both core-dev and motu, and review if *that* fails
<persia> sabdfl: I'd hope that it would be a temporary measure, asking for some cleanup on procedures or something, otherwise I'd agree.
<cjwatson> whether the MC deals with MOTU approvals is a separate question, and not in my view intrinsically connected to whether the MC continues to exist
<geser> sabdfl: a consistent picture of the imagined future (what is the "place" of each team) would be a good start. I've lost track where we are going with all the "redefinitions" (first it was talked that core-dev and motu get merged than not; was the dmb/mc merge a merge or more an election)
<pitti> sabdfl: at least if MC expresses the desire to take up approvals
<cjwatson> dholbach: oh, ok, ScottK was meant to do it
<sabdfl> geser: the nominations were a merge, the poll gave us a good result
<cjwatson> that said, I agree with sabdfl, even given a reconstituted MC, I think we should only debate redirecting MOTU nominations if the DMB is failing
<sabdfl> and as i recall, MC folks did well in the poll
<pitti> http://mdzlog.alcor.net/2009/12/08/call-for-nominations-ubuntu-developer-membership-board/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://mdzlog.alcor.net/2009/12/08/call-for-nominations-ubuntu-developer-membership-board/
<dholbach> pitti: I don't think that the majority of the last 7 MC members want to take motu approval away from the DMB.
<sabdfl> i'm sensitive to concerns that the DMB *might* not get sufficiently into MOTU's head that it does a bad job of approving MOTU candidates
<pitti> the vote was explicitly done under the annoucnement that the DMB unified the approval
<sabdfl> and if that happens, we should fix it
<cjwatson> sabdfl: agreed
<sabdfl> it would not be a huge failure, it could happen just through normal "where is the focus" issues
<persia> So the model would assume that if there is an MC, it would likely only make that request if the DMB was perceived to not be meeting needs?
<geser> sabdfl: my first understanding of this merge was that also the powers/responsibilities get merged and not only the team members
<sabdfl> but i think saying we *will* setup and MC and it *will* ask for delegation is setting ourselves up either for (a) delegating when we don't want to, or (b) refusing to delegate, and creating tension
<sabdfl> so, -1 to persia's suggestion, though i appreciate the spirit in which it was put forward
<sabdfl> can i ask that we revote on the straw man:
<cjwatson> geser: that was also my understanding but with a slight refinement: the powers/responsibilities associated with developer approvals were merged
<sabdfl>  - DMB will be admin for both core-dev and motu
<persia> (and contributing developers and per-package uploaders9
<sabdfl>  - if motu feel, after a few months, that good candidates are not making it through, they can ask for delegation to MC
<sabdfl>  - if DMB feel that they want that, they can ask for it too
<sabdfl>  - in both cases, the TB will hear the request
<pitti> sabdfl: currently ongoing vote is "Hearing and approvals for MOTU will now be exclusively done by the DMB, with the option of delegating it to the MC upon request and voting in the future."
<cjwatson> that was what I believed I was voting on anyway, but OK
<sabdfl> pitti: yes, but some of the +1's have been "with persia's mod"
<pitti> sabdfl: (which has a +1 from cjwatson, kees, and me)
<cjwatson> I don't mind revoting for clarity
<sabdfl> (persia, i appreciate where you are coming from, but i think it just defers the question, and i'd rather settle the question now with the option to review based on results)
<pitti> "Hearing and approvals for MOTU will now be exclusively done by the DMB, with the option of delegating it to the MC upon request by MC or DMB, and approval by TB in the future."
<pitti> that's more explicit?
<cjwatson> (the TB unambiguously has power to revise its own decisions anyway ...)
<persia> sabdfl: Understood.  I'd be more unsatisfied if there was an active MC asking for it, but given the current state, I'm fine with the result.
<sabdfl> sorry, network
<pitti> sabdfl "Hearing and approvals for MOTU will now be exclusively done by the DMB, with the option of delegating it to the MC upon request by MC or DMB, and approval by TB in the future."
<pitti> sabdfl: does that cover your concern?
<sabdfl> pitti: yes
<pitti> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 3
<pitti> (no quorum reached)
<sabdfl> +1 ...
<pitti> [VOTE] Hearing and approvals for MOTU will now be exclusively done by the DMB, with the option of delegating it to the MC upon request by MC or DMB, and approval by TB in the future
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Hearing and approvals for MOTU will now be exclusively done by the DMB, with the option of delegating it to the MC upon request by MC or DMB, and approval by TB in the future.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<pitti> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from pitti. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<sabdfl> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from sabdfl. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<kees> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from kees. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<pitti> cjwatson ?
<cjwatson> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<pitti> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<pitti> thus approved
 * persia will take an action to update the wiki to match this decision
<pitti> we have a time out, so I propose to defer teh other agenda points to the next meeting
<sabdfl> thanks persia, and thanks for making an eloquent case
<cjwatson> pitti: seconded
<pitti> but I  think it was better to discuss this through rather than revisiting it again next time
<sabdfl> persia: let me know re chat-with-motu
<pitti> [TOPIC] chair for next meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  chair for next meeting
<persia> sabdfl: Certainly.
 * pitti checks calendar for holidays :)
<pitti> I'll volunteer Keybuk again
<pitti> Keybuk: are you okay with leading the meeting next time? You aren't on vac then
<pitti> I'll confirm that out of band
<pitti> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:05.
<pitti> thanks everyone
<sabdfl> thanks all
<bjf> Roll Call
 * jjohansen waves
 * cking here
 * apw leans nonchalantly against the edge of channel
 * amitk waves
 * ogasawara waves
 * smb here now
 * manjo waves
<bjf> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:01. The chair is bjf.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<bjf> NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Action Item: amitk to meet with keybuk on automated boot tests
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Action Item: amitk to meet with keybuk on automated boot tests
<bjf> this is an old one
<bjf> amitk, anything to report?
<apw> i was expecting that to occur last week, but i didn't see it myself
<amitk> I didn't really talk to keybuk about that in particular. But I now have the info necessary to start my own PXE booting automated installs
<bjf> amitk, so can we call this action item closed?
<amitk> yes
<bjf> thanks
<bjf> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Lucid Release Status: Bugs (Release Meeting Bugs / RC Milestoned Bugs / Release Targeted Bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  Lucid Release Status: Bugs (Release Meeting Bugs / RC Milestoned Bugs / Release Targeted Bugs
<apw> JFo, ?
<JFo> sorry 1 sec...
<JFo> Release Meeting Bugs (2 bugs, 3 blueprints)
<JFo> ===
<JFo> Alpha 3 Milestoned Bugs (35 bugs against all packages)
<JFo>  * 1 linux kernel bugs
<JFo>  * 2 linux-fsl-imx51 bugs
<JFo>  * 0 linux-ec2 bug
<JFo>  * 1 linux-mvl-dove bugs
<JFo> ===
<JFo> Release Targeted Bugs (133 bugs against all packages)
<JFo>  * 11 linux kernel bugs
<JFo>  * 2 linux-fsl-imx51 bugs
<JFo>  * 0 linux-ec2 bug
<JFo>  * 1 linux-mvl-dove bugs
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Lucid Release Status: Milestoned Features
<MootBot> New Topic:  Lucid Release Status: Milestoned Features
<JFo> Milestoned Features -
<JFo>  * 1 blueprint
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Lucid Release Status: Bugs with patches (apw, JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Lucid Release Status: Bugs with patches (apw, JFo)
<JFo> Bugs with Patches Attached:107
<JFo> http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/csv-stats/bugs-with-patches/linux/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/csv-stats/bugs-with-patches/linux/
<JFo> ..
 * apw notes this is no longer a new topic, and hands it to jfo :)
<apw> ..
<bjf> apw, should we just combine those three topics into a single "Lucid Release Status" topic?
<apw> feels that way to me
<apw> Release Metrics perhaps
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-bug-handling (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-bug-handling (JFo)
<JFo>  * Arsenal scripts are currently running in dryrun mode daily. I am finishing up adding the -r option in each script to enable the actual run.
<JFo>  * Reviewed the X debugging pages. I have started working up an outline of what we need to put in place and how we can use most of what we already have to do it.
<JFo>  * I'm also making up a listing of what information needs to be updated on our wiki.
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-review-of-ubuntu-delta (apw)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-review-of-ubuntu-delta
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-review-of-ubuntu-delta (apw)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-review-of-ubuntu-delta
<apw> Nothing to report
<apw> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-kernel-config-review (apw)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-kernel-config-review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-kernel-config-review (apw)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-kernel-config-review
<apw> Testing for any boot-speed regression with the PATA and SATA disk controllers removed is ongoing.  We have also cleaned up those patches which were under discusssion, dropping a number of redundant patches.
<apw> ..
<bjf> apw, did we decide anything w.r.t. having builtin drivers vs. modules?
<apw> that is part of what the first item there is about
<bjf> apw, ack
<apw> i am planning to test that, and use that to start an email discussion on kernel-team
<apw> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-kms (sconklin)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-kms
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-kms (sconklin)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-kms
<apw> Preliminary testing with nouveau has been pretty good.  An upload of the new Lucid LBM is pending in the New queue currently.
<apw> ..
<apw> oh one more thing ...
<apw> actually there is some discussion starting that KMS on radeon may be not as good as it could be
<apw> and we need to figure out what if anything we need to do there also
<apw> ..
<sconklin> ..
<manjo> I am looking at backporting some patches
<manjo> for radeon
<manjo> that might fix some of the memory issues
<manjo> that are being reported
<manjo> ..
<apw> ok keep me in the loop on that
<manjo> ok
<manjo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-suspend-resume (manjo)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-suspend-resume
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-suspend-resume (manjo)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-suspend-resume
<manjo> I have 2 patches, 1. prints a lot of info driver:device:resumetime 2. is based on tracepoints. I have tested patch #1, and I
<manjo> am in the process of testing patch #2. I plan on tweaking patch #1 and carrying it as a sauce in Lucid.
<manjo> ..
<apw> is the first one the one which we're going to make only output on slow things?
<manjo> yes
<apw> ..
<manjo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-apparmor-development (jjohansen)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-apparmor-development
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-apparmor-development (jjohansen)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-apparmor-development
<jjohansen> Removed an unused feature that is potential security vulnerability (other option
<jjohansen> was complete the feature and do heavy code auditing).  The feature could allow privilege escalation when combined with change_profile.  No CVE as there is no way to exploit it with out it being explicitly used in policy, which has never happened except in experimentation.
<jjohansen> finished up policy optimization, it provided a 50% reduction in size and 4x speedup, also laid the ground work for further improvements (table sharing, and faster table compression) in the future.
<jjohansen> pam_apparmor update should be done later in the week.
<jjohansen> Fixing locking deadlock.  The freeing of profiles has a race that can potentially deadlock.  This can occur when free_profile is triggered from an rcu callback that is occurring at the same time as a profile replacement/removal.
<apw> most excellent news
<jjohansen> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-boot-performance (apw, csurbhi)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-boot-performance
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-boot-performance (apw, csurbhi)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-boot-performance
<apw> Boot is looking better, plymouth has been pulled back out of initramfs and we are below budget again.  We have one outstanding issue with khubd which seems to be hanging about, investigation is ongoing.  We have also pulled some of the boot speed improvements back to the ARM branches for lucid, they are under testing now.
<apw> we look to be at about 1.8s to rootfs right now
<apw> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: Lucid Audio Support (bjf)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: Lucid Audio Support (bjf)
<bjf> nothing new here, wiki and bug work needing to be done
<bjf> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: Lucid Better Power Mgt (amitk)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: Lucid Better Power Mgt (amitk)
<amitk> I've been playing with CPU wakeups on a stock lucid isntall
<amitk> got it down to 5-6 wake ups after using some laptop-mode-tools tricks, blacklisting modules, etc.
<amitk> 5 wakeups/s
<cking> disabled gnome terminal cursor?
<amitk> now trying to figure out what parts of these hacks can be bundled with lucid
<amitk> cking: yes done that
<amitk> I hope to have atleast some scripts for pm-utils
<bjf> amitk, anything you can writeup and have others try?
<amitk> no plans for any kernel changes atm
 * apw cheers
<amitk> bjf: possibly
<bjf> amitk, done?
<amitk> yes
<bjf> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: EC2 Lucid Kernel Status (jjohansen)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: EC2 Lucid Kernel Status (jjohansen)
 * amitk forgot about the ... code
<jjohansen> updated to latest set of patches, and updated configs to more closely match -server (with exception of physical device drivers, which diverged even more).
<jjohansen> need to look at linux-meta-ec2 package as it has been reported by smoser that it isn't updating to latest version of kernel.
<apw> jjohansen, that would be my fault if its not
<apw> poke me after so i can check
<jjohansen> apw: will do
<jjohansen> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Lucid (apw)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Lucid (apw)
<apw> We have refactored the debian abstraction to reduce the separation and thereby increase commonality of the rules and scripts.  The kernel is currently being pulled up to v2.6.32.8 and should be uploaded today.
<apw> Overall we are about half way through alpha-3 and we have completed about 58% of the milestoned tasks.  Much of what remains undone are investigation items.  We are making some progress to returning below the burn-down line:
<apw> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-kernel-team.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-kernel-team.html
<apw> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Karmic/Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (gnarl/smb)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Karmic/Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (gnarl/smb)
<smb> Dapper:     2.6.15-55.82 (security)
<smb> Hardy:      2.6.24-27.65 (security)
<smb>             2.6.24-27-66 (proposed)[just uploaded]
<smb> Intrepid:   2.6.27-17.45 (security)
<smb> Jaunty:     2.6.28-18.59 (security)
<smb> Karmic:     2.6.31-19.56 (security)
<smb>             2.6.31-20.57 (proposed)[1]  4/18 verifications done
<smb> Security release is done. This time it included updates to fsl-imx51, mvl-dove
<smb> and ec2 packages. The ports-meta will be refreshed as well.
<smb> confirmation.
<smb> A new upload to Hardy proposed is waiting for approval and will also be
<smb> done for netbook-lpia.
<smb> The Karmic proposed upload includes a few more patches than before and also
<smb> fixes a regression through 2.6.31.9 that was catched before.
<smb> -.. --- -. .
<smb> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<JFo> Incoming Bugs
<JFo> 122 Lucid Bugs (up 21)
<JFo> Current regression stats (broken down by release):
<JFo> == regression-potential (up 4) ==
<JFo> 39 lucid bugs
<JFo> == regression-update (no change)==
<JFo> 9 karmic bugs
<JFo> 5 jaunty bugs
<JFo> 2 intrepid bugs
<JFo> 1 hardy bug
<JFo> == regression-release (down 5)==
<JFo> 56 karmic bugs
<JFo> 22 jaunty bugs
<JFo> 11 intrepid bugs
<JFo> 4 hardy bugs
<JFo> == regression-proposed (no change)==
<JFo> 1 karmic bug
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<JFo> I don't have the page prepared for today. I'd like to create the page and market it a bit. Is it ok to have it next week?
 * JFo failed on that point
<JFo> ..
<apw> not sure we had a bug day to report on
<ogasawara> yah, seeing as we skipped last weeks
<apw> it would have been last tue i think, and was cancelled
<apw> so no failure
<apw> ..
<ogasawara> seems fine to push it to next week
<ogasawara> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
<amitk> bjf: I have one
<bjf> amitk, go
<amitk> I want to revisit our decision (dtchen's really) to turn off HDA power save mode off
<apw> bjf i have one too
<amitk> do we have any numbers on how many users were affected by the sound glitches
<bjf> amitk, have you started a conversation with him about it?
 * apw thinks that bjf should be involved in the discussion
<amitk> haven't yet. But I can write email to kernel-team
<amitk> but since you're the audio guy...
<apw> it would be good to know what the issues were so we can revisit them to confirm if they are the same still or fixed
<bjf> apw, amitk, I have no problem being involved in the discussion
<cking> amitk, how much power does it save?
<cnd> amitk, +1 on having glitches myself
<cnd> but osx has glitches too
<amitk> the better part of a watt in some cases
<apw> i could have done with that on the plane
<cnd> hmmm... I'm not sure I care enough about the glitches to consume an extra W
<cking> that's significant enough in my books to warrant a revisit on this decision
<amitk> we tweaked kirkland's laptop before he got on the plane with my crack
 * kirkland high fives amitk 
 * amitk takes that to mean that stuff mostly worked ;)
<manjo> amitk, is your crack on a wiki ?
<amitk> not yet, I'll try to put it there when I free up some time
<bjf> amitk, I'll let you send out the initial email but I will jump in as well
<amitk> ack
<amitk> ...
<manjo> amitk, I would like to see
<manjo> what it does on Dell 10V
<manjo> I have one
<manjo> and its our benchmark
<JFo> nice haiku manjo
<amitk> manjo: this is all on a dell mini 10V
<manjo> ok
<manjo> ..
<bjf> apw, you have something you'd like to get off your chest?
<apw> Reminder that we are frezing the kernel on March the 11th, which means we have to have everything ready and in by March 8th.
<apw> ..
<jjohansen> there is a patch we might want to consider pulling in for lucid now that we have a preempt flavour (I haven't looked at this yet, beyond seeing it on the lsm)
<jjohansen> http://patchwork.kernel.org/patch/66155/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://patchwork.kernel.org/patch/66155/
 * manjo notes that leaves little time for stuff to get done 
<jjohansen> ..
<bjf> anyone else have anything?
<smb> Probably I also should note that Karmic SRU for the kernel are about to end as well.
<smb> ..
<bjf> that seems like the end
<amitk> smb: meaning mass -stable tree updates?
<smb> amitk, No meaning all non kitten-killer ones
<amitk> aah
<smb> amitk, We need to concentrate powers on Lucid
<manjo> smb, lbm ?
 * amitk nods
<smb> manjo, Might be acceptable if you have something but better soon than late
<manjo> ok
<manjo> ..
<smb> ..
<bjf> thanks everyone
<bjf> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:34.
<cking> thanks bjf
<JFo> thanks bjf
 * smb hands bjf a virtual beer
<kangarooo> so what about meeting?
<cjohnston> thats what I was thinking
<jono> sorry folks, I am in a last minute call
<jono> completely missed the reminder
<jono> jcastro, can you coordinate the meeting while I finish the call?
<jono> cjohnston, kangarooo or can you run it
<jcastro> what meeting?
<jono> global jam
<jcastro> ah, duh
<jono> looks like there is not many people here for it anyway
<jcastro> yeah
<dantalizing> lies!
<jcastro> who's around?
<jono> thanks jcastro
<cjohnston> hey dantalizing
<kangarooo> can anyone just run it? i would like to if i knew what to do
<jono> sorry again, bloody google calendar
 * jcastro snags gavel and pushes people into chairs
<cjohnston> ouch
<jono> biab
<dantalizing> morning cjohnston
<cjohnston> :-)
<kangarooo> 16min already wasted
<jcastro> ok, let's come to order
<jcastro> which locos are here?
<cjohnston> FL
<kangarooo> latvia
<jcastro> each rep sound off please!
<dantalizing> -fl
<vojtech_t> czech
<cyphermox> -qc? :D
<jcastro> ok, please fire up this page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGlobalJam
<jcastro> once again we plan to have a "global jam" this cycle
<jcastro> this one is at the end of march, 26-28 March
<jcastro> this originally started out as the "Ubuntu Global Bug Jam"
<jcastro> but then we had so much fun that we decided to just encompass all ubuntu development
<kangarooo> doesnt bot needs to be started for meeting recording?
<jcastro> so now LoCos can do whatever kind of jam they want.
<jcastro> how many of you have already conducted a jam? global or otherwise?
<dantalizing> o/
<cyphermox> o/
<kangarooo> 0
<jcastro> heh, ok, so all but one then. Good, we should take this opportunity to spread our best knowledge then
<kangarooo> why ask? if to get info how they did it then they should give links to jam meeting timetable
<jcastro> so like this? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Jams
 * dantalizing got pulled into a meeting .. sry afk
<kangarooo> ok at least 1link :) this link needs more info with examples.
<jcastro> well, usually your first step is, what kind of jam you want to do
<jcastro> however, regardless what kind of jam it is, you should probably start looking for a venue soon
<kangarooo> i someone could write example jam schedule i would post that example to wiki
<jcastro> what do you mean by a jam schedule?
<itnet7> also conducted a jam... sorry a little late
<cjohnston> kangarooo: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGlobalJam/Events
<jcastro> no worries, hi itnet7!
<itnet7> Hey there jcastro !
<jcastro> kangarooo: is that what you mean by schedule?
<kangarooo> 10.00 intro meeting with linux ngo 10.30  goverment it minister 11.00 studies of bug fixing 12.00 bug fixing
<cjohnston> kangarooo: there is no schedule
<cjohnston> its what ever and whenever your loco decides to do it
<jcastro> right
<kangarooo> so jam without specific schegule. so jam is agile
<jcastro> some locos just sit around and do bug work
<cjohnston> kangarooo: yes...
<jcastro> some do a scheduled set of sessions
<jcastro> some even just drink beer and do no work. *whistles*
<itnet7> ;-P
<cjohnston> i need to join that loco
<jcastro> but yes, it's up to your LoCo to jam how they see fit
<jcastro> however, there are common things we can all do
<jcastro> so first is seeing if you can actually have a jam
<jcastro> this is usually a call to a mailing list, etc.
<jcastro> "Are we jamming this cycle?"
<jcastro> then people nod or complain
<jcastro> depending on what they're doing that weekend or whatever
<jcastro> the next step is surely securing a venue
<jcastro> since this is time consuming
<jcastro> depending on the size of your loco that can be easy or hard.
<mhall119|work> oh man, I hope the new loco-directory is up in time for this
<jcastro> but for example if you want to do classes for participants then you will need a venue that has a projector
<jcastro> mhall119|work: indeed!
<cjohnston> would sure be nice
<kangarooo> whats new loco-directory?
<jcastro> one new jam we have in place this time is the upgrade jam
<jcastro> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Jams/Upgrade
<jcastro> this is basically where people can just show up, upgrade to lucid, and report bugs.
<mhall119|work> kangarooo: loco.ubuntu.com with event/venue tracking
 * dscassel suggests asking #hackerspaces if there's a hackerspace in your town and they want to help.
<jcastro> ok so I guess the first steps here are for those of us who have done this before to go ahead and ping our respective locos
<jcastro> and then signing up on events: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGlobalJam/Events
<jcastro> let's each of us take a work item to blog/tweet/dent when their loco signs up, or poke someone who can when their loco signs up so we can get the word out
<kangarooo> ouh wow. i would like to make hackerspace in latvia as loco HQ
<jcastro> usually what happens is a few locos start and then the deluge begins after
<jcastro> yeah they just opened a hackerspace by me so I am keen on getting our loco in there!
<jcastro> kangarooo: ok given the current docs and guidelines, do you have any questions?
<itnet7> sounds good denting/tweeting
 * jcastro is pretty sure the old timers know what they are doing by know
<mhall119|work> buzzing
<jcastro> by now even!
<jcastro> ok, so action to take out of here for everyone is to get this page noticed on the internets: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGlobalJam/Events
<jcastro> also, the new "upgrade jam" should be fun for locos I think
<itnet7> kangarooo: after some other teams put up what their plans are, you will be able to have a wide variety of choices in case you're not sure what you want to do at first
<jcastro> a person can just bring their laptop and contribute, if anything having the hardware there will be a bonus
<jcastro> ok, so let's each reach out to other locos as well
<jcastro> so since I'm in michigan I'll bug the rest of the midwest folks, etc.
<jcastro> mhall119|work: want to blog about it later tonight?
 * jcastro will blog as well
<mhall119|work> blog about it where?
<kangarooo> yes all is fine. its esay to make jam then.
<jcastro> oh, also
<jcastro> you'll note that someone made little logos and banners; use them!
<jcastro> mhall119|work: aren't you on planet?
<mhall119|work> ubuntu-fl.org is
<jcastro> ah ok
<mhall119|work> one of us will post there
<mhall119|work> qimo4kids.com might be, I'm not sure
<jcastro> you guys had like 4 or 5 jams last time no?
<jcastro> or was that release parties?
<mhall119|work> we had some smaller ones
<mhall119|work> it was right before FLS though
<itnet7> I will blog tonight and will ask the rest of the team at our meeting tonight
<mhall119|work> our release party was the big one
<jcastro> rock, any questions?
<jcastro> kangarooo: also, one thing we always forget to tell people
<jcastro> kangarooo: you can jam whenever you want
<kangarooo> ok
<jcastro> so if you guys have a great time and want to do a bunch, feel free to just run with it
<jcastro> kangarooo: just take a bunch of pictures, so we can put them on the wiki. People get intimidated when they want to run a jam and then they see the pics of what other people are doing and it gets them pumped up
<kangarooo> yes
<jcastro> and as always, if you have questions, I'm in #ubuntu-localteams idling most of the time
<jcastro> any other questions?
 * jcastro will blog about this right now
<jcastro> dscassel: is there a web page for #hackerspaces?
<akgraner> jcastro, did you mean #ubuntu-locoteams
<jcastro> akgraner: yes I did, thanks!
<dscassel> http://hackerspaces.org/wiki/
<jcastro> ooh, on that.
<mhall119|work> good eye akgraner
<akgraner> mhall119|work, thanks :-)
<dscassel> Different hackerspaces have different focuses, but a lot of them are programming/free software friendly.
<jcastro> yeah ours is like a construction site
<akgraner> jcastro, so we have an FAQ page?
<jcastro> still, if this gets hackerspaces and locos together then woo.
<akgraner> we not so
<jcastro> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Jams
<jcastro> is the FAQ basically, even though it's not called that
<akgraner> ok  - I knew about that one :-)
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-02-10
<Speedy1> www.search2.net
<vish> !ops , pls ban Speedy1 ^ he keeps posting that is several channels
<ubottu> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<vish> !ops
<ubottu> Help! Seveas, Hobbsee, LjL, ompaulafk, Keybuk, mdz, sabdfl, janimo, ogra, mdke, dholbach, or jono
<nigel_nb> vish, I told them
<vish> nigel_nb: neato.. :)
<persia> Often it's better to ask in #ubuntu-irc than to call ops for something so general (and it's being sorted)
<persia> Calling ops in a channel is better reserved for flooding or inappropriate behaviour, etc., as it only grabs that specific channel's ops, rather than a wider set.
<vish> persia: oh , -irc didnt know of that channel thanks.. what is the -ops for? or are both same
<persia> vish: As I understand it, "ops" to notify the bot is local-channel emergency, #ubuntu-irc is kinda like IRC support for Ubuntu channels, and #ubuntu-ops is a chat channel for some of the more active ops.
<persia> But not all ops idle on -ops, nor even on -irc.
<vish> persia: err , yeah , just the -ops channel is a bit intimidating to enter , with their no idling policy :)
<persia> -irc is better for 90% of cases.  The only times I end up in -ops is when I have questions about being an IRC op, rather than questions for IRC ops.
 * persia is only op in a few channels
 * vish learn't of a new -irc channel today \o/ 
<czajkowski> vish: also #ubuntu-irc-helpers
<vish> czajkowski: ooh.. thanks.   now isnt that one too many channels for irc ops ;) ..
<czajkowski> vish: I thik the latter is to help and educate. rather handy to be honest
<vish> k..
<persia> This conversation is off topic though, and *lots* of people idle here.  -irc is a better place for the discussion.
<asac> ok mono uploaded
<asac> oops
<persia> heh
 * elky hands asac an asbestos suit.
<asac> damage is already done ... i am contaminated
<zul> morning
 * stgraber waves
 * mathiaz waves
 * Daviey joins the mexican wave.
 * persia thought it was more of a french wave
<nijaba> o/
<smoser> morning US/Eastern
 * stgraber quickly looks at the LXC blueprint. Everything is done !!!
<RoAkSoAx> morning all.. long time no see xD
 * jjohansen waves
<stgraber> persia: for the record, I'm not french ;)
<zul> *cough* US Jr/Eastern as well
<persia> stgraber: My apologies.
<ttx> lets get cracking
<alexm> o/
<nijaba> stgraber: swiss, french speaking, right?
<stgraber> nijaba: yup, living in Canada :)
<zul> ah another wannabe
<ttx> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 08:01. The chair is ttx.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<ttx> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<ttx> Agenda ^
<ttx> smoser: around ?
<ivoks> (date on the meeting is wrong)
<smoser> here
<ttx> jib is not available so I'll chair this one
<ttx> kirkland is scribe, though he is not available right now
<ttx> mathiaz is probably on a plane somewhere
 * mathiaz waves
<ttx> hah
<ttx> Good, so we have quorum :)
<ttx> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
 * nijaba hopes mathias does not make the plane wave
<ttx> ACTION: ttx to announce papercuts nominations
<ttx> done
<ttx> ACTION: zul to do another call to action for the apport hooks involvement
<zul> will do today
<ttx> ACTION: zul to raise php5.3 update on -server and -devel mailinglist, outline which apps are currently not working with 5.3
<zul> done
<zul> i think the conensus of the community is to move to 5.3
<ttx> zul: is that expected to generate an insane amount of work ?
<zul> which means I have to start cracking ;)
<mathiaz> zul: what the list of packages that will be broken by moving to 5.3?
<zul> ttx: not really, some package s in universe will have to be updated
<ivoks> + for 5.3
<nijaba> mathiaz: none in main, hopefully
<ttx> zul: ok, break them first
<ttx> [TOPIC] Alpha3 progress review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Alpha3 progress review
<zul> drupal is the big one big one but we already have drupal6
<ttx> So we'll concentrate on prio 1 specs < 70% completion and prio 2 specs < 50%
<ttx> uec-testing (mathiaz), quick update on status ?
<kirkland> ttx: i plan on testing today's iso
<mathiaz> ttx: I think we're in good shape there
<mathiaz> ttx: most of the remaining items are about doing the tests
<kirkland> ttx: i'll sync with mathiaz before commencing
<ttx> kirkland: glad you could make it
<ttx> kirkland, mathiaz: ack
<ttx> mysql-5.0 (zul): ETA for mysql-cluster
<kirkland> ttx: my bip proxy server crashed, OOM errors, kernel panic
<zul> ttx: upload it today hopeflly
<ttx> seeds (mathiaz): are we reaching a conclusion on RHCS ?
<ttx> seeds (zul): did you forward the ctdb issues to Jelmer ?
<mathiaz> ttx: hmmm
<zul> ttx: not yet
<mathiaz> ttx: I had a short talk with ivoks
<mathiaz> nijaba: what's your position on rhcs in main for lucid?
<ttx> [ACTION] zul to forward issues about ctbd to jelmer to see if those can be lifted before FF
<MootBot> ACTION received:  zul to forward issues about ctbd to jelmer to see if those can be lifted before FF
<ttx> [ACTION] zul to do another call to action for the apport hooks involvement
<MootBot> ACTION received:  zul to do another call to action for the apport hooks involvement
<ttx> (backlog)
<nijaba> mth
<nijaba> mathiaz: my position is simple: we should follow ivok's reco
<RoAkSoAx> and that was the plan, to demote RHCS and include the new cluster stack
<ttx> nijaba: if ivoks is maintaining it, it makes sense for it to be in universe ?
 * Daviey wonders if anyone actually uses RHCS anyway
<mathiaz> right - that's more the question - main versus universe
<ttx> Daviey: ivoks does
<mathiaz> After having talked with Fabio it seems to be a bad idea to keep all of rhcs in main for lucid
<nijaba> ttx: that's another discussion, but yes, I am afraid it is the only solution for 10.04
<ttx> my understanding is that it's difficult to have the new cluster stack in main without keeping most of RHCS i main
<mathiaz> and the current cluster stack is still a moving part
<mathiaz> so from an LTS perspective, maintenance for 5 years is also reduced
<mathiaz> ttx: not really
<mathiaz> ttx: most of the binary packages can be moved to universe
<nijaba> we have to be conscious that we are introducing a gap in our feature coverage, but I don't think it really matters
<ttx> mathiaz: ok
<ttx> mathiaz: that thread should reach a conclusion soon, then
<ttx> Maybe a little more discussion can't hurt
 * mathiaz agrees
<ttx> ok, moving on
<ttx> daily-vcs (zul): quick update on status ?
 * Daviey would be highly suprised if any enterprise used lucid RHCS in >3 years anyway. So lack of being in main makes little difference.
<zul> ttx: been working on the higher priority specs
<ttx> puppet-etckeeper-integration (mathiaz, soren): any progress to report ?
 * nijaba agrees with Daviey
<zul> ttx: no progress though
<ttx> Daviey++
 * RoAkSoAx agrees with Daviey too
<Daviey> Shhh!  We've moved on :)
<mathiaz> ttx: waiting on merging 0.25.4 from debian
<ttx> puppet-uec-ec2-integration (mathiaz): not started yet, is it in danger ?
<ttx> soren ^is this under way ?
<soren> Oh hai!
<mathiaz> ttx: it's in unstable now
<ttx> soren: o/
<soren> No news, no.
<mathiaz> ttx: ec2-integration: I'm planning to work on that this week
<mathiaz> ttx: I don't see it in danger for alpha3
<mathiaz> soren: 0.25.4 is in unstable now - it should be merged in lucid
<ttx> soren: are you still on track to complete the etckeeper integration item ?
<soren> mathiaz: Cool. I'll do that soon.
<ttx> ok
<soren> ttx: I believe so, yes.
<ttx> Questions on alpha3 progress ?
<ttx> Other things affecting alpha3 that anyone wants to report ?
<ttx> Moving on.
<ttx> [TOPIC] server-lucid-papercuts : Nomination review
<MootBot> New Topic:  server-lucid-papercuts : Nomination review
<ttx> Please see list at https://bugs.launchpad.net/server-papercuts/+bugs
<ttx> We'll go through them, quick +1 / +0 / -1 from those that reviewed the list
<ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/server-papercuts/+bug/24741
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 24741 in samba "Spurious "account_policy_get failed" messages on install" [Wishlist,Triaged]
<ttx> +1
<kirkland> ttx: -1 on the password feedback one
<ttx> just a sec :)
<ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/server-papercuts/+bug/56679
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 56679 in netcfg "provide a method to use a specified MAC-address as the installation device" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<ttx> debian installer thing... +0
<nijaba> ttx: move it to foundations?
<kirkland> ttx: +0
<ttx> well, its already in their realm, and they don't do papercuts :P
<ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/server-papercuts/+bug/165184
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 165184 in amavisd-new "amavisd-new + spamassassin: cronjob spams root user" [Medium,Triaged]
<ttx> No clear agreed solution, +0
<ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/server-papercuts/+bug/194472
<zul> why not redirect it to /dev/null?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 194472 in sudo "Entering password in Terminal gives no visual feedback" [Unknown,Fix released]
<zul> foundations again
<ttx> highly contentious, -1
<mathiaz> -1
<zul> -1
<Daviey> that is not a papercut :)
<ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/server-papercuts/+bug/211915
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 211915 in amavisd-new "Insecure dependency when using sql for Log Reporting" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ttx> doc bug, +0
<zul> +0
<ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/server-papercuts/+bug/229732
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 229732 in initramfs-tools "USB Keyboard drivers not loaded in initramfs" [Undecided,In progress]
<ttx> Not really server, +0
<zul> -1
<kirkland> ttx: definitely not really server
<mathiaz> -1
<ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/server-papercuts/+bug/263442
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 263442 in mc "mcedit is not longer the default editor" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ttx> +1
<zul> more foundationsy
<zul> +0
<kirkland> ttx: yeah, +1, that could/should be fixed
<ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/server-papercuts/+bug/289087
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 289087 in linux "Missing linux-image-debug packages and metapackages since Intrepid" [High,Triaged]
<zul> -1
<mathiaz> -1: kernel
<ttx> no easy solution : -1
<ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/server-papercuts/+bug/392377
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 392377 in debootstrap "building vm image on text console causes gettys to stop respawning" [Undecided,New]
<ttx> not sure anything left todo, +0
<mathiaz> ttx: where are the critiria for acceptance?
<ttx> in the spec
<soren> That should be fixed now.
<kirkland> -0
<ttx> easy solution, server package, < 2h work
<zul> -1 based on soren's feedback
<soren> Oh, wait.
<soren> No, it's not.
<zul> +1 then ;)
<soren> It's fixed in debootstrap, not in vm-builder.
<ttx> soren: exactly
<soren> ubottu confused me by only mentioning debootstrap :)
<ubottu> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<kirkland> okay, yeah +1 then
<ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/server-papercuts/+bug/393888
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 393888 in ruby1.9 "Ruby 1.9.0 curses Alt-key handling broken" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<soren> I'm expecting to fix that this week.
<ttx> +1, if its really just a missing builddep
<ttx> -Âµ1 if it required bump, since papercuts needs to be bugfixes, not something affected by FF
<kirkland> ttx: yeah, +1 if only builddep
<ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/server-papercuts/+bug/406466
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 406466 in linux "2.6.31 - Can't see files in CIFS-mounted directories" [Medium,Confirmed]
<zul> -1
<ttx> -1 / kernel issue, not even a bug methink
<mathiaz> -1 : kernel issue
<ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/server-papercuts/+bug/428814
<ttx> +1
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 428814 in amavisd-new "Removal of the package does not remove the cron.daily script" [Low,Triaged]
<zul> +1
<ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/server-papercuts/+bug/458203
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 458203 in eucalyptus "euca_conf is missing command-line completion" [Wishlist,Triaged]
<kirkland> +1
<ttx> +1
<zul> +0
<kirkland> ttx: that's mostly fixed
<ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/server-papercuts/+bug/460398
<kirkland> ttx: in my last merge
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 460398 in vm-builder "/etc/timezone is not set correctly" [Medium,Triaged]
<ttx> +1
<zul> +1
<ttx> kirkland: cool :)
<soren> +1
<kirkland> +1
<smoser> command line completion is mostly fixed, kirkland ?
<ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/server-papercuts/+bug/480460
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 480460 in mcelog "mcelog: warning: record length longer than expected. Consider update." [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ttx> +1
<zul> +1
<ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/server-papercuts/+bug/495505
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 495505 in tomcat6 "server.number reports 6.0.0.0 not 6.0.X.0" [Medium,Triaged]
<ttx> +1
<zul> +0
<ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/server-papercuts/+bug/496554
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 496554 in installation-guide "Obsolete info in "Automatic Installation" section" [Undecided,New]
<ttx> +1 (?)
<ttx> taht sounds like a rather outdated doc
<ttx> if its completely rotten, might make sense to remove it rather than try to fix it
<mathiaz> +1
<ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/server-papercuts/+bug/508606
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 508606 in command-not-found "Recommend tracepath for "traceroute" and "tracert"" [Undecided,New]
<ttx> +1
<zul> +1
<ttx> A few other ones have been added recently, we'll review them next week
<shattered> cool, my nominations went through :-)
<ttx> I'll update the status of the bugs accordingly
<ttx> shattered: yay !
<shattered> not the usb keyboard one, though
<ttx> I propose that we discuss bugfixing goals next week, when we have a better idea of how many bugs we are looking at
<ttx> Gives a last chance for people to nominate their stuff :)
 * nijaba propose not to discard doc bug, and make sure sommer knows about them
<ttx> he is assigned to it, iirc
<ttx> nijaba: agreed
<shattered> debian install document has the same bug
<shattered> if you're talking about 496554
<ttx> I'll decline the -n, accept the +n, keep the +0 around
<ttx> moving on...
<ttx> unless there are any questions?
<ttx> [TOPIC] server-lucid-apport-hooks  update (zul)
<MootBot> New Topic:  server-lucid-apport-hooks  update (zul)
<zul> all prior 1 are done except for openssh its pending a review with cjwatson
<cjwatson> zul: it is?  I don't have mail about it
<cjwatson> nor do I see a branch on LP
<zul> cjwatson: hold on lemme pull it up
<ttx> zul: Did you get any community feedback on the prio2 ones ?
<zul> ttx: no :(
<cjwatson> sorry if I missed it on IRC, but IRC is kind of unreliable
<ttx> Hopefully you'll get some -- after the email you're going to send about it :)
<zul> cjwatson: https://code.launchpad.net/~zulcss/ubuntu/lucid/openssh/openssh-apport-hook
<zul> ttx: heh
<cjwatson> ah, now I see it, I was looking for upstream branches, sorry
<cjwatson> I wonder why I didn't get a mail
<zul> cjwatson: no probs
<cjwatson> anyway, thanks, I'll review that now
<ttx> As a general reminder, apport hooks are easy, and a great way of contributing your first patches/branches to Ubuntu :)
<zul> and I dont bite
<ttx> especailly with a core-dev standing by to sponsor your work :)=
<RoAkSoAx> i might be able to help if the time allows me to do so :)
<ttx> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (soren)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (soren)
<ttx> soren: howdy
<ttx> soren: if nothing else, when is new guy starting ?
<ttx> looks like we lost soren, we'll skip to...
<ttx> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)
<ttx> jjohansen: howdy ?
<smoser> new guy starts: 15th (which is a US holiday) so 16th
<ttx> arh
<jjohansen> new EC2 kernel is checked in
<ttx> smoser: thx
<smoser> and booted in daily build output too!
<jjohansen> has the latest updates, and updated configs
<jjohansen> sweet
<ttx> smoser/jjohansen: so krd is complete now ?
<jjohansen> yes
<ttx> \o/
<jjohansen> modulo any bugs
<jjohansen> also Bug #519448
<smoser> ttx, definitely complete for ec2. and no ramdisks are published right now for uec.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 519448 in linux "No XEN domU support in 32bit virtual flavour" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/519448
<ttx> feature-complete, I should say
<jjohansen> has been fixed for next proposed karmic
<smoser> so we'll see for uec soon enough.
<jjohansen> and those changes are being rolled into lucid as well
<jjohansen> I think that is it
<ttx> jjohansen: also I blamed kernel for recent lucid random freezes, and it was plymouth fault.
<smoser> best bet is to always blame the kernel
 * ttx beats himself with a big stick
<jjohansen> heh, well I blamed the kernel too, at first
<Daviey> plymouth on server shocker.
<ttx> soren: are you back ?
<soren> Sorry, yes.
<ttx> Any other question for John ?
<soren> I'm on my new laptop, and my IRC-notification thing seems to be malfunctioning. Sorry about that.
 * soren catches up
<ttx> ok, back to the future:
<ttx> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (soren)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (soren)
<soren> Ah.
<soren> Um..
<soren> I don't actually know when he'll be starting. I /think/ it's next week.
<ttx> smoser answered that one
<ttx> Feb 16th
<soren> Other than that, I've handed over my automatic ISO testing stuff to the QA team. It'll be running in the DC soon.
<smoser> i'm 98% certain on that. that is what marjo told me.
<soren> smoser: That's probably true, then :)
<soren> he should know :)
<soren> I think that's all I have.
<zul> heh he/she is going to be very very busy
<ttx> [TOPIC] Weekly SRU review: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase#SRU%20weekly%20review  (mathiaz)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly SRU review: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase#SRU%20weekly%20review  (mathiaz)
 * mathiaz pulls out the lists
<mathiaz> http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/fixedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/fixedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html
<mathiaz> anything SRU worth ^^?
<ttx> i think bug 503180
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 503180 in eucalyptus "eucalyptus-cloud doesn't reply to requests (eucalyptus doesn't work after reboot or services restart issues due to upstart networking behavior)" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/503180
<ttx> kirkland: you planned a SRU /if/ the fix inlucid can also be applied to karmic, right ?
<Daviey> bug 343870
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 343870 in mysql-dfsg-5.1 "php-cli segmentation fault with mysql extension" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/343870
<kirkland> ttx: it should be a 2-liner
<kirkland> ttx: i can prep the upload, and put it in a PPA
<kirkland> ttx: if i could get some people to test it
<kirkland> ttx: my rig is all Lucid
<kirkland> ttx: i won't have much cycles to work on Karmic
<ttx> Daviey: already nominated/accepted
<Daviey> oops
<ttx> kirkland: sounds like a plan.
<nijaba> kirkland: ping me when you want to test, I have a setup ready for it
<kirkland> ttx: action me to put an upload in a karmic ppa for testing
<ttx> kirkland: also TeTeT could help
<kirkland> ttx: as soon as 1 person verifies the ppa, i'll push to proposed
<ttx> [ACTION] kirkland to propose a karmic fix for bug 503180 in PPA
<MootBot> ACTION received:  kirkland to propose a karmic fix for bug 503180 in PPA
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 503180 in eucalyptus "eucalyptus-cloud doesn't reply to requests (eucalyptus doesn't work after reboot or services restart issues due to upstart networking behavior)" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/503180
<kirkland> ttx: or i can just push to propose, if you recommend
<zul> i just like to point out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/SRUTracker (its still a work in progress)
<ttx> we have no idea if the DB deadlock in karmic will be fully fixed by that... so I prefer PPA
<kirkland> ttx: ack
<ttx> mathiaz: that's all from me
<mathiaz> great
<mathiaz> anything else?
<ttx> zul: cool
<mathiaz> there is one bug nominated for jaunty|karmic: bug 364581
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 364581 in mod-auth-mysql "Crash when logging in" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/364581
<ttx> +1
<ttx> "Low" being slightly underestimated
<mathiaz> ok - accepting then
<zul> shouldnt bugs be undecided before triaging them?
<ttx> zul: no
<mathiaz> that's all for the SRU review
<ttx> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<ttx> Note that we no longer do a canonical-server-rteam bug review, as it brought little value to the contents of the meeting
<Daviey> (\o/)
<ttx> any blocking bug should be brought up in Open Discussion
<ttx> (not just canonical's team ones)
<Daviey> ooo, tftpd..
<Daviey> is that being resolved stgraber ?
<ttx> If we have some free time, lets see new papercuts nominations :)
<ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/server-papercuts/+bug/508382
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 508382 in bacula "bconsole does not connect to bacula-director" [Medium,Confirmed]
<kirkland> tftpd-hpa in lucid sucks
<Daviey> kirkland: it's always had some degree of suckness.. but now moreso.
<stgraber> I'm still not sure about what to do here but I'm very tempted to restore the old behavior
<kirkland> stgraber: or downgrade?
<ttx> I'd say +1 on the bconsole bug thing
<kirkland> stgraber: at the very least, please restore old behavior
<ttx> though LDFLAGS=" " is almost certainly not the right way to fix it
<stgraber> ideally I'd just revert to what we had in Karmic but it's not exactly easy to do if we want to be able to sync with Debian in the future
<stgraber> (as in, reverting to the old version completely)
<Daviey> stgraber: it wouldn't be a huge delta for us to carry, would it?
<Daviey> to diverge and carry.
<stgraber> so easiest is probably to tweak it so it works as before (inetd + /var/lib/tftpboot + no debconf)
<ttx> stgraber: I'd revert to old behavior... and try to convince the debian maintainer of the value of the old system
<stgraber> Daviey: I don't think so no
<ttx> be it only for upgrade scenarios
<ttx> I suppose debian server users also upgrade
<ttx> stgraber: reverting to old version won't help in the long run
<kirkland> ttx: let's solve this in #ubuntu-server
<ttx> sure
<ttx> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time
<ttx> That will be again same place same time, for at least one more week
<kirkland> ttx: one hour later, please
<ttx> kirkland: it's not in my power to change that
<kirkland> ttx: should we just drop that last TOPIC item, then?
 * Daviey checks the TOPIC
<kirkland> ttx: we always ask, and I always say "one hour later please"  :-)
<ttx> kirkland: but... if you convince jos /and/ send an email after having convinced him, I'm ok with one hour later
<kirkland> ttx: okay
<Daviey> any meeting date and time you chose, providing it is Wednesday at 2:00PM UTC -- Hnery Ford.
 * mathiaz pushes for a different day
<ttx> mathiaz: that's an even more ambitious move !
<jiboumans> kirkland: probably in may, fyi
 * jiboumans back to meeting &
<ttx> even more not in my little sphere of power
<ttx> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:01.
<soren> Wow, you have a sphere of power? That sounds COOL!
<ttx> soren: I used to have a sphere of influence, but it dodn't work that well
<soren> What's the exchange rate from Spheres of Influence to Spheres of Power these days?
<ttx> soren: it's not so good. But back when I traded mine, it was good. I got a small Sphere of Power for my medium-sized speher of Influence
<kirkland> ttx: soren: and how does a Sphere of Power relate to a Ring of Power?
<kirkland> maybe that was what that giant marble was that Sauraman had...
<ttx> A Ring of Power is mostly about your friends network. A Sphere of Power is centered around yourself.
<soren> kirkland: I'm not sure. I don't even know how it compares to my Spear of DOOM!
<persia> soren: How does that differ from the well advertised long pointy stick?
<ttx> Spear of Doom ? like... being an admin of ubuntu-core-dev ?
<fader_> I haven't even managed to get a Web of Trust... I'm so far behind. :(
<ttx> Sphere of Power only allows you to schedule UDS sessions, so it kinda sucks
<soren> persia: Well, it's a spear, isn't it? So it's pointy by definition. The tip might break of the pointy stick, and then it'd just be a stick.
 * ttx remembers the time of web rings
<persia> Ah, so the spear of DOOM! is cladded.  That makes sense.
<cjwatson> hi folks
<ev> hi
<barry> howdy
<mvo> hello
<lool> Heya
<__keybuk> Hai
 * slangasek waves
<cjwatson> tremolux,james_w: ping
<cjwatson> is doko on leave?
<tremolux> hey!  hi everyone
<james_w> hi
<cjwatson> ok, let's get started
<cjwatson> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:04. The chair is cjwatson.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Meetings/2010/0210#Agenda
<cjwatson> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Meetings/2010/0210#Agenda
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Meetings/2010/0210#Agenda
<cjwatson> silly parser, I swear it sometimes works
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Lightning Round
<MootBot> New Topic:  Lightning Round
<cjwatson> order: slangasek,__keybuk,mvo,lool,james_w,tremolux,ev,barry,cjwatson
<slangasek> fighting with plymouth, everyone can reproduce the bugs except me
<slangasek> help wanted... :)
<__keybuk> I have nothing to paste - first day back today
<slangasek> (EOF)
<cjwatson> __keybuk: *nod*
<mvo> software-center missing feature, ratings&review,
<mvo> upgrade tester (added stepmaker profiels for gui upgrade, that is pure love)
<mvo> tie up loose ends from the sprint
<mvo> fighting jetlag
<mvo> (EOF)
<lool> Lots of work on linux/versatile; worked on a bunch of ARM/qemu issues as well; some minor work on pycentral/pysupport tools.
<lool> (done)
<james_w> working on the bzr importer and putting features in to bzr-builddeb before next week. Not blocked on anything.
<james_w> FIN
<tremolux> I've been working on presentation of individual software
<tremolux> sources in Software Center.  Some finish work still to do there.
<tremolux> Next up is back/forward navigation in the top level "Get Software" section.
<tremolux> Hopefully other work items as time allows before feature freeze.
<tremolux> P.S.  Sprint was lots of fun, thanks everybody!
<tremolux> (done)
<ev> trying to untangle a debconf bug in casper, looking into a kde oem-config bug, looking into a bug in ubiquity/console-setup whereby its not selecting the right keyboard map, and polishing up and testing my ubiquity conversion to plugins branch in preparation for merging.
<ev> EOF
<barry> Sprinting. Computer Janitor refactoring; dbus service and cli completed.  Will be working on updating the gtk ui next. Research on Launchpad Answers application for use by ratings-and-reviews. Submitted preliminary branch for review.  That was approved so will land that today.  Began work on next Launchpad branch in support of ratings-and-reviews in Software Center.  Will have pre-imp discussion with Curtis on that today and should have
<barry> branch ready for review by EOW.  Updated PEP 3147 for supporting multiple installed Python versions.  Pycon 2010 prep.  EOT.
<barry>  
<barry>  
<cjwatson> done: finished grub device-id work, at last; network initramfs issues for iscsi-root; other bits and pieces
<cjwatson> blocked: live CD greeter from DX for foundations-lucid-gfxboot-update, but I talked with bratsche at the sprint so this is at least moving
<cjwatson> todo: big dpkg merge once bzr-builddeb can handle .tar.bz2; debconf-dbus, still under discussion on packagekit list
<cjwatson> EOF
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Outstanding actions from last meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Outstanding actions from last meeting
<cjwatson> there was one here, which was actually for the sprint agenda but I don't think that happened
<cjwatson> mvo to add bug 506709 to sprint agenda
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 506709 in unattended-upgrades "Should inform user if running during shutdown/reboot process" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/506709
<cjwatson> do you want to track that some other way?
<mvo> cjwatson: I did not manage to discuss it o nthe sprint
<mvo> I will just talk to people OOB (slangasek or keybuk)
<mvo> its milestoned, so it should not get lost
<cjwatson> right
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Outstanding feature freeze exceptions
<MootBot> New Topic:  Outstanding feature freeze exceptions
<cjwatson> we're a little early for this!  but perhaps it is a good time to ask if anyone expects to be requesting anything along those lines
<cjwatson> eight days to FF
<cjwatson> I am expecting to probably need to defer the ubiquity lvm/raid work, unfortunately
<cjwatson> as well as btrfs, which isn't a huge surprise
<ev> I'll in all likelihood be deferring the jockey integration in ubiquity
<mvo> its not clear if archive based indexes will make it, we may have to do a workaround
<slangasek> cjwatson: did you get a chance to talk with bratsche about the gfxboot stuff at the sprint and get that unblocked?
<barry> cjwatson: heads up that the pitti burndown url is not responding
<cjwatson> slangasek: I talked with him, and he said it was a couple of hours of work; I nagged again today and he said "today"
<slangasek> ok
<james_w> there's a bunch of bzr features we could make use of that won't happen in the next week, but I'm not sure they'll be for lucid anyway
<cjwatson> barry: which one?  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-foundations-lucid-alpha-3.html WFM
<cjwatson> mvo: which archive-based indexes?
<cjwatson> barry: (note that it's moved a couple of times)
<barry> cjwatson: ah, this wiki page is out of date: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
 * barry fixes...
<cjwatson> aha, yes please
<mvo> cjwatson: the idea to get rid of the app-install-data package and build that on package build time
<cjwatson> ah.  consequence of deferring that is that we get to keep doing SRUs for things?
<mvo> the consequenz is that external repos (like PPAs) do not benefit from the icons
<mvo> unless we add hacks to the package file
<mvo> maemo for example encodes the icon in the packages file
<cjwatson> ah, the format isn't sufficiently nailed down yet that we can implement the client in advance of the server, then?
<mvo> the other ugliness is that we have to maintian the app-install-data package wich is a bit of a pain, but for the main archive its fine
<mvo> well, that is a possiblity
<mvo> its just risky
<cjwatson> icon in packages file> likely to bloat rather a lot, at least for the main archive :(
<cjwatson> yeah
<mvo> for the main archive ap-install-data is good enough for now
<mvo> its really for 3rd party and PPA
<cjwatson> ok, well let me know if I can do anything to push the server side along
<mvo> and it would be nice to have a solution for this, going with a client-only implementation may well be the way forward
<mvo> thanks
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Milestoned bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  Milestoned bugs
<cjwatson> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=21445
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=21445
<mvo> I got a bunch there
<cjwatson> yeah, there's one casper bug which I think is related to plymouth, and the rest of the foundations ones seem to be in package management
<cjwatson> I might hoover up a thumb2 bug or two if I can
<persia> We've having a hacking session on that in about 22 hours in #ubuntu-arm
<cjwatson> mvo: any particular ones you'd like to pass on?
<cjwatson> or are you ok?
<mvo> bug #506709 is one that i need help from someone with plymouth experience
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 506709 in unattended-upgrades "Should inform user if running during shutdown/reboot process" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/506709
<mvo> for the software-center ones I will talk to tremolux if he can take some :)
<tremolux> will do my best  :)
<mvo> then it should be ok
<mvo> thanks
<barry> tremolux, mvo perhaps we can discuss ratings and reviews after this meeting?
<tremolux> barry: fine for me
<cjwatson> I'm going to skip targeted bugs for this week, and do a pass over them to see what needs to be milestoned
<barry> (and s/c in general, if help is needed)
<mvo> barry: yes
<cjwatson> though don't let me stop you doing the same
<cjwatson> sponsorship queue: weekly nag/guilt-trip :)
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Good news
<MootBot> New Topic:  Good news
<Keybuk> cjwatson: I feel no guilt ;)
<cjwatson> Keybuk: such a rebel
<cjwatson> ... gosh, you're all depressives this week
<Keybuk> it's hard to feel good when two weeks ago it was the middle of summer, and I was wearing shorts and t-shirt
<cjwatson> good news: MY OWN BED
<mvo> stepmaker is good news
<Keybuk> and now it's frakkin' snowing
<mvo> gui upgrade testing automatic, unattended
<barry> cjwatson: how about: 2nd huge snowstorm in less than a week?  blizzard conditions right outside my window
<slangasek> good news: it's above freezing here (barely)
<cjwatson> mvo: runnable in the datacentre now too, maybe? :)
<lool> linux/versatile boots and is useful again!  (not uploaded yet)
<mvo> cjwatson: almost!
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<lool> I wonder whether some people here would have time for MIRs?
<cjwatson> was missing all but about three or four activity reports last I checked, gentle reminder
<mvo> for last week?
<mvo> my is "at the sprint"
<cjwatson> oh, a few people had a bit of detail on what they did there. :)
<cjwatson> "what I did on my holidays"
<mvo> wehhh, ok. I will try to gather it, but without my gtimelog logs I'm usually lost :)
<barry> mvo: me too! :)
<Keybuk> cjwatson: didn't really keep track of what I did there
<cjwatson> I had to go back and remind myself
<cjwatson> well, we'll do what we can
<cjwatson> lool: you asking existing ubuntu-mir folks, or for new volunteers?
<cjwatson> we had a few new folks a few months ago, IIRC ...
<cjwatson> is the volume rising rapidly?
<lool> cjwatson: Both
<lool> it's a been a couple of weeks that MIRs have backlogged
<lool> and FF is usually a busy time for MIRs
<cjwatson> the general sense I got at the sprint was that there was very little spare time available on this team, but perhaps those who have already volunteered for it can spend a bit of time on it this week?
<cjwatson> seems like that's everything for this meeting, so thanks all
<cjwatson> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:39.
<lool> Thanks
<ev> thanks
<slangasek> thanks
<cjwatson> I'll do the release meeting this week
<cjwatson> who wants to chair next week?
<Keybuk> I can chair
<Keybuk> it feels like it might be my turn again
<mvo> thanks
<cjwatson> ok :)
<james_w> thanks
 * ara waves
<pedro_> hello folks
 * fader_ waves.
<fader_> marjo is out today and asked me to chair
<fader_> So, let's see if this works
<fader_> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:00. The chair is fader_.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<fader_> w00t
<fader_> Agenda:
<fader_> * SRU testing -- sbeattie
<fader_> * Bugday highlights -- pedro
<fader_> Short agenda today
<fader_> sbeattie: How's SRU testing look?
<karlheg> [LURK]
<sbeattie> SRU Activity report for the past two weeks (since 2010-01-27):
<sbeattie> * karmic: 9 new packages in -proposed (cups, devicekit-power, foomatic-filters, gnome-games, gnome-power-manager, gscan2pdf, linux, metacity, psyco), and 6 packages pushed to -updates (devicekit-power, gnome-power-manager, gtk+2.0, kopete-facebook, ubuntuone-client, ubuntuone-storage-protocol)
<sbeattie> * jaunty: 2 new package in -proposed (psyco, squirrelmail)
<sbeattie> * intrepid: 1 new package in -proposed (squirrelmail)
<sbeattie> * hardy: no new packages in -proposed and 7 packages pushed to -updates (base-files, debian-installer, ganeti, klibc, language-packs, moodle, sun-java5)
<sbeattie> * dapper: no SRU activity
<sbeattie> Thanks to Miklos Juhasz, Moneta Funzionata, Novecento, glass.dimly, Colin Whittaker, Christian Loos, Joshua Hoover, erlguta, Tonnerre, papukaija, Roman Yepishev, Szebenyi BÃ¡lint, Stew Ellis, Ian Hutchinson, Tybion, and Paul Elliott.
<sbeattie> ... for testing out packages in -proposed.
<sbeattie> Also, thanks to everyone who helped test SRUs and isos for the 8.04.4 release.
<sbeattie> That's all I've got for this week.
<fader_> Any word on how 8.04.4 went?  I didn't hear any major disaster stories so I assume everything went well :)
<sbeattie> AFAIK it went well, there was a couple of minor issues that crept in that I've forgotten the details of.
<fader_> Cool... I always assume no news is good news.
<fader_> Any questions/comments/concerns  from anyone about SRU testing?
<sbeattie> davmor2 might remember if he were here.
<fader_> Heh, he's too important to hang out with us today apparently :)
<fader_> [TOPIC] Bugday highlights
<MootBot> New Topic:  Bugday highlights
<fader_> pedro_: ^^
<pedro_> well there's no highlights from past bug day since we didn't have one
<pedro_> but... tomorrow we're having a great bug day based on pitivi
<pedro_> yes, the video and audio editor
<pedro_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20100211
<fader_> Neat... seems like a good one as it's going to be in lucid by default
<pedro_> the plan is to help the desktop team to clean up the product and to provide more reports to the upstream developers in order to have a better package for lucid
<pedro_> so if you have some spare minutes, please consider on join us that day ;-)
<pedro_> also special thanks to Fagan for helping out with the organization
<fader_> Thanks pedro_.  Any questions for pedro_?
<pedro_> seems he's not around either, probably he's hanging around with davmor2 :-P
<fader_> Hehe
<fader_> [TOPIC] Any other business?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any other business?
<ara> yes,  I had one topic in the wiki
<ara> one small one :)
<fader_> ara: You snuck it in after I checked this morning :)
<ara> yes,  late one :D
<fader_> [TOPIC] nVIDIA & ATI proprietary drivers testing
<MootBot> New Topic:  nVIDIA & ATI proprietary drivers testing
<fader_> ara: please go ahead! :)
<ara> I just wanted to remind people that we are testing ATI & nVIDIA proprietary drivers on a weekly basis
<ara> if you have one of these graphics cards and want to participate, you can read the instructions at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Testing/ProprietaryDrivers/WeeklyProgram
<ara> we are starting next week!
<fader_> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Testing/ProprietaryDrivers/WeeklyProgram
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Testing/ProprietaryDrivers/WeeklyProgram
 * fader_ is all signed up and ready to test.
<fader_> Thank you ara
<ara> OK, and that's all from me
<fader_> Anything else?
<fader_> Going once...
<fader_> Going twice...
<fader_> Okay, looks like that's it.
<fader_> Thanks everyone!
<fader_> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:14.
<pedro_> thanks
<YokoZar> QA meeting 40 minutes ago?
<YokoZar> (no logs on wiki)
<persia> YokoZar: It started and finished (took about 15 minutes)
<persia> irclogs.ubuntu.com ought have it in about 20 minutes if the wiki isn't updated.
<YokoZar> Guess I didn't miss anything interesting while I was trying to connect with bad proxy settings
<highvoltage> *** Edubuntu meeting about to commense
<persia> Quick, you only have a few seconds less to start it ...
<persia> Aw, too late.
 * stgraber waves
<alkisg> Hi all
 * mgariepy waves
<mgariepy> hi
<highvoltage> hi everyone!
<highvoltage> I just deleted some of the old agenda items but we'll probably do a bit more: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Meetings/Agenda
<highvoltage> Lucid Release Schedule: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucidReleaseSchedule
<stgraber> FF is next thursday
<Lns> hi
<stgraber> highvoltage: we should probably add LTSP live ?
<highvoltage> daily builds are working again (thanks to stgraber who fixed *several* broken langauge packs in ubuntu)
<highvoltage> stgraber: *nod*
<stgraber> well, actually they are broken again ;)
<stgraber> due to some KDE issues
<highvoltage> ohno :(
<highvoltage> daily builds are available from http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/dvd/ if anyone is interested
<stgraber> I'm hoping that they'll get auto-resolved tonight or I'll have to nag some KDE people ;)
<stgraber> good thing Tonio_ works for Revolution Linux too and is some 2m away from me :)
<highvoltage> I installed yesterdays daily build today, it's down to 1.5GB. We have some new packages that we're installing from universe
<highvoltage> stgraber: heh! nice to have some kde people we can nag on board :)
<highvoltage> on the Lucid netbook item,
<sbalneav> Present
<highvoltage> I'll install it today (as in after the meeting) and check that it installs and works properly
<highvoltage> howdy sbalneav
<stgraber> great
<stgraber> highvoltage: just wondering, testing the new image, did you see anything in the boot menu that shouldn't be there ? (boot menu == gfxboot)
<highvoltage> mgariepy: edubuntu menu editor is about to go into main right?
<highvoltage> stgraber: I specifically checked it, it's perfect
<highvoltage> stgraber: I also checked whether the F4 Install LTSP option is still there, and it isn't
<stgraber> great
<mgariepy> highvoltage, edubuntu-menueditor will stay in universe.
<mgariepy> and will be included on the dvd.
<sbalneav> Super!
<stgraber> Edubuntu can depend directly on universe packages now and support timeframe is the same in main and universe for it
<highvoltage> mgariepy: great!
<highvoltage> stgraber: ah I thought I saw you dent about a MIR about it before, I was probably mistaken
<highvoltage> alpha 3 is scheduled for February 25
<highvoltage> sbalneav: would you be up for hosting another bug day on february 23?
<sbalneav> Yessir
<stgraber> highvoltage: I'll book the both of us in Zimbra too
<highvoltage> great! It's actually just around the corner so we should probably start to announce
<sbalneav> I will gladly spend a day smacking bugs.
<highvoltage> thanks stgraber :)
<sbalneav> Want me to post to -devel & -discuss?
<highvoltage> sbalneav: yes it will be appreciated
<sbalneav> K, last time we sort of focused on LTSP bugs.  I haven't tested for about a week, but as of last week, LTSP seemed to be a-ok-#1
<sbalneav> Should we focus on APP bugs this time?
<highvoltage> I think so
<highvoltage> also new things like live ltsp
<sbalneav> stgraber: your feeling on the state of LTSP?
<highvoltage> (which isn't implemented yet but soon will be)
<highvoltage> I think it's important to look at some of the new apps we install by default now
<stgraber> I hope to have 5.2 released early next week and uploaded to Ubuntu
<stgraber> we currently have a 15s boot time
<stgraber> including 2s of DHCP and 1s due to bootchart
<stgraber> so a CPU usage of 12s which is really good ;)
<stgraber> we also started using fat client at Revolution Linux for testing
<stgraber> and mgariepy seems to survive using it so it should be quite good
<highvoltage> stgraber: did you give one to BSA to try? he was quite eager :)
<sbalneav> 5.2 will have the nbd proxy in it, right?
<stgraber> sbalneav: yep
<stgraber> sbalneav: we just need to do a quick test with VBox to see exactly what's going on
<stgraber> my tests showed that we can kill all nbd-server processes every second and still boot and use a thin client just fine
<mgariepy> fat client work quite fine on a atom 270 with 2G of ram, it's quite impressive i think. beside the login time though ;)
<alkisg> stgraber, a friend of mine also had this problem on a live pc - so that vbox testing would be nice...
<stgraber> with the network speed going from 100Mb/s when nbd-server is up all the time to 20Mb/s when it's killed every second :)
<highvoltage> I'm busy setting up ltsp in vbox on the latest build
<alkisg> Yeah the login time for fat clients takes too long... is that an sshfs problem?
<stgraber> highvoltage: make sure to use my PPA, I know current Lucid is a bit broken
<highvoltage> I kind of lack focus today but sometimes it's good to jump around a bit... after the meeting I'll spend some dedicated energy and test it
<highvoltage> stgraber: ok, will do
<mgariepy> alkisg, haven't took time to take a look yet.
<stgraber> alkisg: not sure, the tests we made show that it's not really downloading much at session open but we'll need more profiling to know exactly what's happening there
<stgraber> highvoltage: cool
<highvoltage> I'm just trying to think of any Edubuntu Council issues we may have to discuss. We haven't had en EC meeting in quite a time
<highvoltage> but we haven't really had a need for one yet
<stgraber> I'd propose making mgariepy a member ;)
<highvoltage> afaict there hasn't been any member applications
<highvoltage> yes he should apply :)
<highvoltage> I've updated our team reports to include the reports for December and January: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/TeamReports
<highvoltage> perhraps we should take turns to do it, every month someone else :)
<highvoltage> on second thought making a turn system sounds like too much work ;)
<stgraber> ;)
<sbalneav> I'd second mgariepy being an edubuntu-member
<stgraber> I just pasted him the link to an example wiki page, so he can prepare one for next meeting
<highvoltage> sounds good.
<stgraber> IIRC we need to follow the same standards as regular Ubuntu membership including the wiki page
<highvoltage> so we'll make the next meeting an EC meeting as well?
<stgraber> yep
<highvoltage> yes I would insist on that
<stgraber> anyway, it's pretty much only EC members here :)
<Lns> at least we have a dedicated council! =)
<alkisg> :)
 * highvoltage pokes nixternal with a sharp stick
<highvoltage> I'd like a website update from Hedgemadge and dhillion-v10 as well, they don't seem to have been online much the last week
<highvoltage> I think dhillion-v10 mentioned that he'll be away for a few days due to exams
<highvoltage> we'll probably have a decent website update next week, I'll ask them to send it to the edubuntu-devel list
<stgraber> sounds good
<stgraber> do we have any update on artwork ?
<highvoltage> it would be nice to have the website up and running by the end of the month. I don't think there are any blockers at this stage
<stgraber> highvoltage: +1
<sbalneav> I approached Digital Blasphemy.  After receiving an initial email, I haven't heard anything since.
<highvoltage> I'm going to update the artwork packages to include Mads's wallpaper. he sent me a Gimp source file that can be used to generate other artwork we might need
<Lns> generating artwork?
<highvoltage> It's very usable, although if we get anything better we can use it
<stgraber> ok, sounds good. Poke me when you have something I can upload.
<sbalneav> Did anyone look at my update to gartoon? Gartoon-redux?
<highvoltage> Lns: well, as in, we can remove elements that we don't need
<sbalneav> it's in my ppa
<Lns> highvoltage: ah
<stgraber> sbalneav: I've put that on highvoltage's todo list ;)
<highvoltage> sbalneav: it's on my todo list to... yes what stgraber said
<sbalneav> hahaha
<highvoltage> sbalneav: can you send me the links to it? My job is to take screenshots to send to the list
<sbalneav> It does seem to fix a couple of the gartoon bugs we had.
<sbalneav> Do you want a screenshot of my box?
<highvoltage> sbalneav: that would be nice
<sbalneav> or the gartoon-redux site?
<highvoltage> sbalneav: that would be ideal
<highvoltage> the folder icon in gartoon has been the #1 complaint about it
<sbalneav> highvoltage: ok, I'll make one tonight.  I'll make sure to take the current goat-porn background I've got off :)
<highvoltage> perhaps it's something we could fix as well at some point. at least that's something doable beyond FF
<highvoltage> sbalneav: thanks!
<stgraber> sbalneav: ideally, I'd have one screenshot of each icon theme showing a nautilus window + the gnome menu.
<sbalneav> Got a link to one of Mad's new backgrounds?  That way I could show off "the complete package"
<stgraber> so we can easily compare
<highvoltage> (re the goat pr0n)
<joerg> hi
<highvoltage> hi joerg
<sbalneav> hello joerg
<joerg> hello edubuntu people :)
<highvoltage> sbalneav: I haven't uploaded it yet, only sent to the list. I'll upload it to the wiki and send you a link
<sbalneav> We prefer the term "Edubuntuoids" :)
<highvoltage> oh we're recognised!
<highvoltage> oh right artwork
<sbalneav> As in: "How many edubuntuoids does it take to screw in a lightbulb? Just one, but you have to keep checking the lightbulb's PPA for updates"
<highvoltage> (my little brain is fried)
<sbalneav> badum-bum.
<sbalneav> <high hat>
<highvoltage> I also want to give a bash at modifying a nice gtk/metacity theme from an existing nice one for edubuntu
<highvoltage> it's nice to have some diffirentiation from a standard ubuntu install
<Lns> As long as we're on artwork, I'd like to propose possibly creating gtk+/gnome themes based on grade level
<sbalneav> Nobody?  Not even a chuckle?  Geez, I'm slipping
<Lns> with iconsets, etc. that reflect the age group
<highvoltage> sbalneav: heh :)
<Lns> I've never "done" themes before but i could look into it
<highvoltage> Lns: we could do it by the tasks there are currently. I think there are 3 differentl levels atm
<highvoltage> Lns: realistically finding more than 3 icons sets would also be pretty much impossible :)
<Lns> well we could also have a standard ubuntu iconset so if people don't want a mocked-up educational look/feel, and stick with ubuntu's look, they can
<highvoltage> Lns: perhaps we can put some more effort into that for lucid+1. for now gartoon, human and breathe should provide a reasonable selection
<stgraber> highvoltage: yep, but I'm not sure you want gartoon for tertiary for example
<highvoltage> Lns: indeed
<Lns> stgraber: yeah
<highvoltage> stgraber: so primary could have gartoon and secondary and tertiary could have breather
<highvoltage> *breathe
<stgraber> highvoltage: yep
<stgraber> and they would still be able to switch if they want one or the other anyway
<stgraber> that's just suggested default
<Lns> that would be the coolness
<highvoltage> yep. I don't think I have anything else
<sbalneav> My desk is clear
<highvoltage> any other business?
<sbalneav> When the heck do I get a free Porche?  I was promised one for joining this outfit?
 * highvoltage tasks sbalneav to come up with something amusing to say at the end of every meeting from now on
<sbalneav> Beatcha
<highvoltage> (obviously- not that I needed to)
<stgraber> also on highvoltage's todo (though we can probably give that to someone else if someone wants to) is having edubuntu-dev approved for uploads
<stgraber> sbalneav: Was that ogra who promised you that ? ;)
<highvoltage> stgraber: ah I should've added that to the agenda, I have some questions about that but I'll ask after I get to the other stuff
<Lns> lol
<highvoltage> put if someone else beats me that would be awesomeness
<sbalneav> stgraber: thought it was you :)
<sbalneav> ogra would have promised me his motorbike ;)
<highvoltage> porches come to those who wait
<stgraber> sbalneav: btw, still planning an Edubuntu hackfest ?
<sbalneav> Yeah!  Need to get my *ss in gear on that.
<highvoltage> sbalneav: just wait until the ice starts to melt please :)
<sbalneav> I'm taking spring break week off to finish the rumpus room out at the cottage.
<highvoltage> rumpus room?
<sbalneav> rec room?
<highvoltage> aah
<stgraber> sbalneav: no hurry, highvoltage isn't there yet (though it's getting closer and closer ;))
<highvoltage> I think I just learned another canadian word
<sbalneav> What do they call the room in the basement where you can watch tv and make noise in SA
<highvoltage> sbalneav: we generally don't have basements!
<sbalneav> WHAT?!
<highvoltage> sbalneav: I think I've only ever seen 1 house with a basement
<highvoltage> sbalneav: I guess it might be since we don't have tornadoes to hide from :)
<sbalneav> Neither do we :)  We just have floods, and you don't want to be in the basement when that happens :)
<sbalneav> Yeah, rumpus room, double-double, bear-claws, social, oh, you have many canadianisms to learn.
<highvoltage> I watch a show called How I Met Your Mother where there's a Canadian woman and they make lots of fun aboot her
<highvoltage> I already learned some Canadianisms there
<sbalneav> yeah, americans love making fun of Canadians.
<highvoltage> heh, seems like we're about done with the meeting? I'll give it another two minutes and hit the meeting done bong unless something else comes up
<stgraber> I also remember some NCIS episode where they say: "It can fly as fast as 400km/h" and the other answers "Sorry, I don't speak Canadian!". These americans ...
<highvoltage> sbalneav: yep, and everybody loves to make fun of the americans :)
<stgraber> yeah, I guess we are good for that meeting ;)
<highvoltage> stgraber: I'm sure I saw a clip of that somewhere!
<highvoltage> yep we managed to cover everything and talked some smack and we still have 10 minutes to spare
<highvoltage> thanks everyone!
 * ogra wraps his spare porsche in cellophane and tags a UPS sticker on it .... 
<highvoltage> Meeting Ended. *bong*
<ogra> where do i have to ship it ?
<highvoltage> sbalneav: wow that was easy! hopefully ogra won't charge you shipping costs
<ogra> nah, i'll send the bill to revolutionlinux :)
<stgraber> ouch ;)
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-02-11
 * asac waves
 * micahg waves
<asac> anyone here for mozillateam meeting?
<asac> hi micahg
 * micahg hopes it's not just the two of us
 * micahg also wonders why the channel title isn't updated
<asac> i think the channel title isnt updated anymore
<asac> last time i saw that was a year ago
<asac> or even longer
<asac> lets wait a bit longer ;)
<asac> otherwise we can retry with more announcements in a week or two :)
<micahg> k
<micahg> we never posted the meeting time to the ML :(
<asac> thats my failure yes.
<asac> also no blog. etc.
<asac> lessons learned
<asac> micahg: are you ubuntu membmer?
<asac> i think so
<asac> you can also have a blog on planet ;)
<micahg> asac: yes, but haven't set one up yet :(
<micahg> asac: maybe blog post about team goals with a new meeting time
<asac> lets talk aobut that offline ;)
<asac> e.g. in ohter channel or on a call
<micahg> k
<Smex> nite folks.
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-02-12
<Linuxian> hello
<cjohnston> hello Linuxian
<Claudinux> Linuxian, hi
 * slangasek waves
<jdstrand> o/
<ogra> moop
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<cjwatson> hi
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is slangasek.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<asac>  o/
<pitti> o/
<ttx> o/
 * marjo waves
<davidbarth> o/ too
<slangasek> Riddell, sistpoty|work, apw: ping
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2010-02-12
 * apw waves nochalently
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2010-02-12
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Actions from previous meetings
<MootBot> New Topic:  Actions from previous meetings
<slangasek>   * asac and ScottK to review the plan for xulrunner demotion and present the resolution at the next meeting
<slangasek>   * slangasek to poke priorities of hw testing bugs (DONE)
<slangasek>   * pitti to triage bug #506816 to see if it's a dkms bug (DONE)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 506816 in dkms "wl missing after Karmic -> Lucid upgrade" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/506816
<slangasek> asac: what's the status here?
<asac> i havent talked to him. but after reviewing the list of what needs xul in main i am confident that we will have to keep it in main even
<slangasek> hmm
<asac> so what we do is we treat main and universe the same.
<asac> e.g. go through the list and dump everything that we cant commit to support
<slangasek> well, ok
<slangasek> nothing for it, I suppose
<asac> if we could get rid of couchdb things would be better ;)
<slangasek> heh
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Server Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server Team
<ttx> o/
<ttx> Status at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
<ttx> Alpha3 milestoned bugs:
<ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/492365
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 492365 in psycopg2 "MIR for psycopg2" [Wishlist,Fix released]
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
<ttx> done now
<ttx> next one was also very recently closed
<ttx> That leaves us with https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/515812
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 515812 in eucalyptus "Autoregistration: Node doesn't ask for a specific cluster to be registered in" [Medium,Triaged]
<ttx> Which I'm working on right now, setting Inprogress to reflect that
<ttx> I'm blocking on my test infra right now
<ttx> If I can't get past it, I'll just upload Monday and test with the archive :)
<ttx> Alpha3 status/progress at:
<ttx> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-server-lucid-alpha-3.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-server-lucid-alpha-3.html
<ttx> Only 2 High/Essential specs at < 80% completion
<ttx> server-lucid-uec-testing (50%): Most remaining work items are about exercising tests, can be completed after FF
<ttx>  server-lucid-seeds (50%): Pending redhat-cluster-suite and ctdb discussions, my understanding is that demotions can be finalized after FF as well.
<ttx> Bugs in other teams affecting us:
<ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/506297
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 506297 in plymouth "Graphical Ubuntu logo enabled on servers, no more login prompt" [High,Triaged]
<slangasek> (last-minute shuffle of the agenda order, asac needs to get out of the meeting early today)
<ttx> This one raises the interesting question of the necessity of plymouth on servers, if it triggers some instability
<slangasek> er, which I answered in the bug log
<ttx> slangasek: yes, I saw that :)
<ttx> slangasek: do you expect to fix that issue for alpha3 ?
<ttx> (you as in "Foundations team")
<slangasek> it's not really about the pretty splash - we could even disable that for server if that's deemed appropriate; the real issue is having a common interface for boot-time processes to talk to... carrying lots of extra code in all the other packages to work around this would be a fail
<slangasek> ttx: Keybuk thinks we need to be waiting for a new upstream code drop that changes a lot of code, which either will fix it or will change so much that we should wait for it to land before hacking on it; I don't have a timeline from him for this yet
<ttx> slangasek: right, I think that would be a fallback option, better try to fix the bugs
<ttx> slangasek: is it reasonable to make a decision on that by beta1 ?
<Keybuk> slangasek: 5-10 days
<slangasek> there you go :)
<ttx> Keybuk: thanks !
<slangasek> so if it's not fixed for alpha-3, it should definitely be fixed for beta-1
<Keybuk> exactly
<ttx> That's all from me, questions ?
<slangasek> none here, anyone else?
<Keybuk> ttx: my understanding is that there *should* be a graphical screen for server
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Mobile Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Mobile Team
<Keybuk> just that when boot is done, it should show the getty
<asac> cool. thanks a lot slangasek
<Keybuk> is that right?
<asac> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<asac> so we have switched to UNE ... and have the 2d launcher now!
<ogra> \o/
<ogra> its so sexy !
<ttx> Keybuk: yes, that's what the bug is about. But I'd rather say that there *could* be a graphical screen for server
<asac> very nice expereience i suggest anyone with arm boards to try that ;)
<ogra> ++
<cjwatson> ttx: the default will be one or the other
<ttx> Keybuk: I don't mind it if it works, but I don't mind if there isn't one either
<asac> another really good news is that we managed to mitigate the doomy thumb2 on dove issue
<asac> using a kernel patch and swapping hardware ... that finally unblocks the thumb2 rebuild spec
<ogra> by switching to new silicon :)
<asac> and continue with the thumb2 porting
<asac> also we unbroke mono and now have good images for dove and imx51 (last i looked)
<slangasek> ah, great!
<ogra> todays was fine :)
<asac> please dont upload anything like mono and openoffice till alpha-3 is over ;)... thanks
<ogra> heh
<asac> on the bug front we got a bunch of bugs fixed ...
 * ogra always thought he was the only one saying that :)
<asac> i made the important thumb2 bugs release critical now (as you can see on the agenda)
<asac> we are organizing mini sprints now to get that list to zero ... then we will continue and work on the not-so-serious thumb2 issues identified
 * ogra notes that bug 457878 isnt on the report (it should be)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 457878 in linux-fsl-imx51 "imx51 on board ethernet plug/unplug events not detected" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/457878
<asac> maybe the link again
<ogra> kernel team is actively working on it
<asac> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/Thumb2PackageReviewList
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/Thumb2PackageReviewList
<asac> ogra: let me check
<asac> ogra: feel free to target for release on your own next time ;)
<ogra> its milestoned, but not targeted :/
<asac> i will add that to the wiki after meeting. thanks
<slangasek> asac: now, what about the lightweight browser decision?
<asac> we are waiting on a reply from chromium devs about their release/security update model ...
<asac> e.g. we would use it i think if we get green light from security team
<slangasek> ok
<asac> but after talking to kees ... he feels not good about that unless we figure out how that can be supported decently
<slangasek> who's responsible for following up with chromium upstream?  mobile or security?
<asac> me ... but i think its a good idea to keep security in the loop
 * slangasek nods
<asac> will do that from now on
<slangasek> it's starting to get late for switching the default browser (MIRs, FF, etc) - can we expect some progress on this by next week?
<marjo> slangasek: agree
<asac> slangasek: yes. i try
<pitti> is chromium really that much more "lightweight" than firefox, which would justify the enormous commitment?
<asac> slangasek: note though that its not a default switch on all images
<slangasek> asac: that changes nothing :)
<pitti> (it's no different from firefox here, but then that's just my crappy box)
<asac> pitti: it is much faster
<ogra> pitti, it scrolls without stuttering in frambuffer and starts up a lot faster
<pitti> ogra: ah, I wouldn't notice scrolling speed
<ogra> remember we dont have xservers on armel
<pitti> startup is just as slooow as ffox here
<pitti> anyway, you guys measure it on the relevant hardware
<pitti> so ignore me
<asac> so yes. lets say we need to see good progress by next week to pursue this idea
<slangasek> anything else on mobile?
<asac> not from me
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Kernel Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Team
<slangasek> asac, ogra: thanks
<asac> thanks
 * ogra thakls the installer team for help on oem-config 
<slangasek> apw: hi
<ogra> *thanks
<apw> Overall Kernel Team status is summarised at the first URL below, including the items called out in the agenda.  Alpha-3 activity is summarised at the second URL below, of which we have completed approximatly 60% and are on target to complete them.  We remain above the line on our burn-down chart (at the third URL below), but we made significant progress last week at Sprint towards hitting that target:
<apw> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<apw> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid#Milestone%20lucid-alpha-3
<apw> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-kernel-team.svg
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid#Milestone%20lucid-alpha-3
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-kernel-team.svg
<apw> We reviewed suspend/resume strategy last week, we now have additional diagnostics patches in testing to aid diagnosability of suspend issues, we have also put a triage and diagnosis plan in place to aid characterisation and detection of common faults.  The ubuntu delta tasks are progressing with the discussed patch changes being applied and uploaded for testing.  Of the three arm bugs called out, one is believed fixed, the second has patches which
<apw>  are under review, and the third remains under investigation.
<apw> Testing of the Nouveau LBM package has been fairly good so far and an updated version has been uploaded and awaits source NEW, userspace bits should already be in place.  The distro kernel is now pulled up to v2.6.32.8 and remains pretty stable in testing.  The mvl-dove branch has been rebased to the distro tip and stabilising patches applied, testing is ongoing.
<apw> .. done
<slangasek> any questions for kernel?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] QA Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Team
<slangasek> apw: thanks
<slangasek> marjo: hi
<marjo> HW Testing
<marjo> http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
<marjo> Netbook:
<marjo>    passed:   7 (54%) failed:   3 (23%) untested: 3 (23%)
<marjo> Laptop:
<marjo>    passed:   23 (92%) failed:    0 ( 0%) untested:  2 ( 8%)
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
<marjo> Server:
<marjo>    passed:   52 (98%) failed:    0 ( 0%) untested:  1 ( 2%)
<marjo> Desktop:
<marjo>    passed:   12 (100%) failed:    0 (  0%) untested:  0 (  0%)
<marjo>    * UbuntuSpec:lucid-qa-checkbox-desktop-experience-tests
<marjo> Still targeting for lucid-alpha-3.
<marjo>    * UbuntuSpec:qa-lucid-automated-server-testing
<marjo> Alpha-3 work items being transferred to ara and sbeattie from soren.
<marjo> On track for alpha-3
<marjo> that's all folks from QA team, any questions?
<pitti> netbook failure is still due to the same sound card bug?
<slangasek> yes
<fader_> pitti: probably; I've asked alexmoldovan to gather the info on those bugs
<marjo> pitti: we will also file additional bugs today as more analysis is done
<fader_> He turned them up yesterday and hasn't yet filed bugs
<slangasek> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/lucid-qa-checkbox-desktop-experience-tests - is that actively under development?  Some of the work items are rather broad ("integrate new tests during the course of the release"), I wonder if this is really on track
<marjo> slangasek: yes, just confirmed with cr3 today
<marjo> we'll adjust work items to be more precise, if necessary
<slangasek> that particular one could probably use some finer-grained detail
<marjo> slangasek: agree
<slangasek> anything else on QA?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Desktop Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop Team
<slangasek> marjo, fader_: thanks
<slangasek> pitti: hi
<pitti> as usual, our report is on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<pitti> since the last meeting we made great progress on landing specs, and boot speed,
<marjo> slangasek: thx!
<pitti> see wiki for details
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<pitti> specs which were called out in the invitation:
<pitti> desktop-lucid-default-apps: Remaining WI is a new feature in F-Spot which was just applied to the 0.7 branch; it does not have a release yet, and it's not clear whether it'll be stable by beta-1. Ken now worked on a backport and has a first version available in a PPA; might still be a bit rough for alpha-3, but believed to be fixable for lucid.
<pitti> desktop-lucid-xorg-triaging-diagnosis: remaining work is outside the distro around bug management; some bits might get dropped, and until now Bryce worked on more urgent tasks
<pitti> (remain targets of opportunity, since investments there will save time later on)
<pitti> lucid-ubuntu-one-client-app: Goal of OLS, not desktop team
<pitti> but was confirmed to be on track for FF
<pitti> (I can't say much about it beyond that, I'm afraid)
<pitti> the bug front remains reasonably calm, most important one was a regression due to ATI KMS; still being figured out (details in the wiki report)
 * jdstrand hates that bug
<pitti> oops, please ignore the "planned intrusive changes for alpha-3" section, it was old; I just removed it from the wiki page
<slangasek> that's bug #507148, I guess?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 507148 in xserver-xorg-video-ati "[lucid] desktop runs out of video memory on ATI Radeon Mobility 7500" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/507148
<pitti> right
<jdstrand> yeah
<pitti> this will probably require a pull of ati/rdm from 2.6.33
<jdstrand> btw-- you can see in the bug and upstream report-- still no progress
<pitti> or we have to disable KMS on ATI by default
<pitti> oh, the Ubuntu bug has a lot of recent action
<slangasek> is there any more news on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-openoffice?  (spec says "there is currently not a roadmap")
<pitti> 3.2.0 is in lucid right now
<pitti> but beyond that it depends on upstream whether .1 lands on time
<slangasek> yes, but the spec says 3.2.1, and says it's not due out until March-ish
<slangasek> (in fact, we only have 3.2.0 rc4 in lucid...)
<pitti> I don't know more precise dates right now, but I'm happy to discuss with Chris
<slangasek> I think it would be good to pin that down more precisely, yes
<slangasek> anything else for desktop?
<jdstrand> pitti, slangasek: fyi-- I'm very keen to get that radeon bug fixed. I have several people who have this card depending on me to upgrade their machines to Lucid
<pitti> no Kubuntu report this week, Riddell is on holiday
<jdstrand> pitti, slangasek: I'm affected too, so it is easy for me to test things
<pitti> it seems the kernel team has backported much of the stack and is calling to test them
<pitti> but it's certainly not an easy backport
<apw> we have a small backport of 4 patches which i am told stop it crashing
<jdstrand> I've tested everything they gave me so far-- no difference afaics
<apw> in nomodeset mode
<jdstrand> apw: with or without compiz?
<slangasek> isn't that bug report specifically about KMS?
<apw> which would the lower risk option i presume...  i've note reviewed them yet
<jdstrand> slangasek: I think they are hoping to have a fallback
<pitti> it was said to not overrun memory when disabling modeset, yes
<jdstrand> well, with no KMS, using compiz results in a different problem-- hard lockup (I filed a bug)
<slangasek> ah
<apw> which presumably you would get with KMS too if it worked
<jdstrand> the only working configuration is no KMS, use XAA, do not use compiz and use RenderAccell off
<apw> the plans are needing discussion, but the original was to disable cards which do not work with KMS
<slangasek> ok, sounds like there's a lot of following up to be done there
<apw> the other bug is a plain regression i assume, and we may have fixes for it
<slangasek> which I trust jdstrand will help with, since he has motivation :)
<jdstrand> apw: compiz with KMS crashes compiz and is bug #507148. compiz without KMS is a lockup (not a memory issue)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 507148 in xserver-xorg-video-ati "[lucid] desktop runs out of video memory on ATI Radeon Mobility 7500" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/507148
<apw> can you get me the other bug number too please
 * jdstrand looks
 * davidbarth waves: DX? while jstrand looks for the bug?
<slangasek> jdstrand: when you have it, please follow up with apw as needed
<slangasek> [TOPIC] DX Team
<jdstrand> apw: there are actually several I've filed: 513950, 513956, 507148
<MootBot> New Topic:  DX Team
<davidbarth> eh
<slangasek> davidbarth: yes :)
<slangasek> pitti: thanks
<davidbarth> ok, so the report is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/LucidReleaseStatus
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/LucidReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/LucidReleaseStatus
<jdstrand> apw: and one more that only affects notify-osd with XAA: 513968. that is worked around by using RenderAccel off
<davidbarth> dx-lucid-application-indicator
<davidbarth> big compatibility change last week; allows KDE & Gnome to finally share compatible APIs, namespaces, types, etc.
<davidbarth> created some side effects while the different libs & desktops were out-of-sync, should be resolved with the latest kubuntu update as of today
<davidbarth> stream of bug reports (and some fixes for them), thanks to the porting effort with app. indicators
<jdstrand> apw: also, the upstream bug listed in 507148 has a lot of info
<davidbarth> for this blueprint, we are in bug fix mode now
 * jdstrand is done
<davidbarth> dx-lucid-gtk-improvements
<davidbarth> ongoing work on further gtk patches for cs-deco; plan is to release that early next week, before the Thursday upload window
<davidbarth> so this one is a bit particular, the cs-deco changes can create some artefacts: layout issues mostly
<davidbarth> setting up a test-plan with qa (as planned in the bp, but coming late) to cope for that
<davidbarth> the thing we'll be adding early next week is the ability to blacklist apps that have issues, to be able to better control that kind of bugs
 * slangasek nods
<davidbarth> dx-lucid-sound-indicator
<davidbarth> finally in Lucid! please report bugs; known issues (unimplemented: auto-mute detection and automatic switching of default output device)
<davidbarth> ("and there was much rejoicing" ;)
<davidbarth> dx-lucid-me-menu
<davidbarth> landed last week, as part of the Portland sprint; new integration with gwibber mostly, featuring an IDO (IndicatorDisplayObject) entry in the menu
<davidbarth> IM integration, same as when integrated in the SessionMenu
<davidbarth> will continue integration with the "About Me" feature for A3
<davidbarth> and another menu next:
<davidbarth> dx-lucid-session-menu
<davidbarth> user list and switching feature restored; based on the new API provided by Robert Ancell
<davidbarth> so this one should be feature complete now
<davidbarth> keeping a wi open for potential integration issues left after that release
<davidbarth> and some more:
<davidbarth> dx-lucid-notifications
<davidbarth> set of former SRU candidates, now merged into trunk
<davidbarth> closeNotification API fix remaining
<davidbarth> bp should be 100% complete after that
<davidbarth> that's it for bp/wi tracking
<davidbarth> one bug in the agenda:
<davidbarth> 506683: indicator-applet doesn't show menu choices when selected
<davidbarth> so this one was meant to be fixed by the big dbusmenu/indicate update of last week; but was not tracked per se
<davidbarth> ie, can't 100% say we've closed it
<slangasek> I was seeing the bug with some frequency before; I can watch for it and update the bug for next week
<davidbarth> will nudge ted on monday specifically, but i haven't spotted occurences of that kind of bug anymore
<davidbarth> yes, safe to keep it on the agenda, as it was a tricky race condition
<davidbarth> and it took some time and 2 releases for ted to feel better about it
<davidbarth> that's it for the report
<davidbarth> questions, feel free to ask
<slangasek> [ACTION] slangasek to follow up on bug #506683 to verify whether it's reproducible after latest indicator uploads
<MootBot> ACTION received:  slangasek to follow up on bug #506683 to verify whether it's reproducible after latest indicator uploads
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 506683 in indicator-session "indicator-applet doesn't show menu choices when selected" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/506683
<slangasek> no questions here; anyone else?
<davidbarth> i guess we could also try to track the app. indicator porting effort as part of that
<slangasek> as part of which?
<davidbarth> i haven't looked at the status for the different apps, but the latest status was that it was proceeding well
<davidbarth> there is a big list maintained by community; maybe i'll let jono or jorge comment as part of their report
<slangasek> the community team doesn't report as part of this meeting?
<davidbarth> we're also tracking some libappindicator/dbusmenu bug repotrs that are filed by porters; that's a nice sting to improve that infrastructure
<jcastro> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=indicator-application
<jcastro> ^^^ that's the progress of the porting work
<davidbarth> jcastro: yes, thanks for the link
<slangasek> [LINK] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=indicator-application
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=indicator-application
<slangasek> how many of these apps are expected to change for lucid?  (Since that's all feature work, and is affected by FF)
<davidbarth> as much as possible; knowing that the fallback support mechanism makes safe a safe path
<jcastro> everything is on the default desktop has a contractor assigned with the goal of making FF
<slangasek> ok
<davidbarth> ie, apps that are not ported continue to work with the old systray
<jcastro> the universe ones are community opportunities.
<davidbarth> right
<slangasek> ok - anything else on DX?
<davidbarth> slangasek: nope, that's it for me
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Foundations Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations Team
<slangasek> davidbarth: thanks
<slangasek> cjwatson: hi
<cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<cjwatson> I've put summaries there of all the specs in the agenda, as well as a few others that have mostly been deferred now
<cjwatson> the only ones I'm actively concerned about are the software-center ones, which I think were always likely to run late or have bits deferred
 * slangasek nods
<cjwatson> slangasek: would appreciate your feedback on the remaining bits of release-collaboration-with-debian, as I'm not very current on that
<cjwatson> the rest of pre-desktop-lucid-startup-speed should land next week, subject to fixing this automatic installation bug which I'm going to try to do today; Keybuk says he believes that should get us very close to the 10s targets
<cjwatson> *target
<slangasek> one of the remaining items there is openoffice.org, which it seems still has some uncertainty on our side; I'll follow up with ccheney today and also check with _rene_
<pitti> (FYI, 11.2 s with the rsyslog/dd change done locally)
<slangasek> java/X, I'll look at in the next few days as well; perl, we're current with Debian now so that probably just needs the status updated
<cjwatson> yeah, I assume the question was whether we were going to remain current ;-)
<slangasek> well, there is that. :)
<cjwatson> I'm going to be off next week, so am mostly trying to nail down the absolutely vital stuff today, like the gfxboot changes
<slangasek> (at the time the question was raised, we were behind Debian by a perl point release)
<cjwatson> oh, right, that was never really a big problem
<cjwatson> if perl were hard to merge, we'd have somebody permanently assigned to it :)
<cjwatson> anyway, nothing else here, unless there are other questions
<slangasek> no questions here
<slangasek> anyone else?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Security Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security Team
<slangasek> cjwatson: thanks
<jdstrand> so, ass always: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<jdstrand> hehe
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<jdstrand> s/ass/as/
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<jdstrand> We postponed a few medium and lower items before the sprint.
<jdstrand> so our burndown overall looks good
<jdstrand> for alpha 3 we have http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-security-lucid-alpha-3.html
<jdstrand> While security-lucid-ufw-devel is targeted for alpha 3 and shown as 17% (5 items left), the reality is that the work is almost done and it just hasn't hit Ubuntu yet. That should be at 100% completion sometime next week when I upload ufw 0.30.
<pitti> this graph looks backwards..
 * slangasek grins
<slangasek> and the burndown line is across the bottom, that's no good :)
<jdstrand> that graph never made a lot of sense to me...
<jdstrand> but, the Status by specification does...
<jdstrand> (which is what I am talking about here :)
<jdstrand> beyond that, we have no RC bugs and are on track
<slangasek> great to hear
<jdstrand> that is it from me
<slangasek> any questions for security?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] MOTU
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU
<slangasek> jdstrand: thanks
<slangasek> sistpoty|work, ScottK: here?
<jdstrand> sure :)
<ScottK> slangasek: Here, but I'm on travel for work, so I have no idea what's going on in MOTU right now.
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
<ScottK> Just barely managed to be on IRC.
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<slangasek> anything else to touch on this week?
<slangasek> FF is next Thursday, in case anyone didn't notice :)
<slangasek> so if you're going to need freeze exceptions, it's not too early to let the release team know
 * slangasek raises the gavel in slow motion
<slangasek> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:28.
<slangasek> thanks, folks!
<pitti> thanks everyone
<sistpoty|work> slangasek: sorry, was afk, had a lengthy debug session with a coworker
<slangasek> sistpoty|work: no worries - anything you wanted to share today?
<sistpoty|work> slangasek: well, I wanted to raise the question about merging ubuntu-release and motu-release
<sistpoty|work> slangasek: and in case we want to do this if we already want to do this for lucid
<slangasek> I think it should happen for lucid; I'll follow up to the mailing list thread today
<sistpoty|work> slangasek: *nod*, especially since FF is very close
<sistpoty|work> thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-02-13
<nhandler> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 14:00. The chair is nhandler.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<nhandler> jussi01, Pici, tsimpson, topyli: Could I see a show of hands for who is here?
<tsimpson> \o
<topyli> o/
<akgraner> o/
<vendaval> o/
<Tm_T> o/
<topyli> Pici?
<dutchie> anybody here for the Ubuntu manual meeting, we're in #ubuntu-manual
 * Pici waves
<ikonia> jussi01 said earlier he wasn't going to attend
<topyli> that's right
<nhandler> [TOPIC] The official policy on #ubuntuforums
<MootBot> New Topic:  The official policy on #ubuntuforums
<Pici> er, wasn't this already decided?
<topyli> Pici, what did we decide? :)
<Pici> Can someone link me to the agenda page?
<nhandler> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda
<Pici> ty
<nhandler> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil/IRCteamproposal
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil/IRCteamproposal
<nhandler> The second link has some background info on the agenda topics
<Pici> There was aready discussion about #ubuntuforums on the IRCC mailing list with the Forum Council.
<topyli> does anyone know how things are going on the channel these days, in practice?
<Pici> Its rather inactive.
<ikonia> mostly just rambling
<ikonia> for example no one has spoke in it today at all
<Pici> The FC was fine with us taking control of the operator duties of the channel.  Jdong explained on the mailing list that the channel was for off-topic discussion, but support is on-topic too.
<Pici> In fact, that was in October, which seems to be when MenZa made his query on the agenda.
<nhandler> The UbuntuIrcCouncil account has +votsriRfa in there, so we also have the necessary flags to do this
<topyli> i guess we just need to make sure there are active ops
<ikonia> with respect, offtopic = #ubuntu-offtopic support = #ubuntu
<ikonia> why is there a channel if it's not for forum disucssion
<Pici> Because the FC would like to see keep it around.
<ikonia> why though
<Tm_K> so let's make it to be forums discussion then?
<topyli> not a good rationale for a channel
<Tm_K> topyli: true that
<ikonia> surly channels have to have a reason beyond "I want it"
<ikonia> I can see real value as forum discussion, eg how to take it forward, discussion on issues with the forum
<Myrtti> Tm_K: if the forums mods aren't there, and they can't be forced to be there, it can't be anything than unofficial
<ikonia> that sort of thing
<Pici> ikonia: Thats a slippery slope.
<ikonia> Pici: what is ?
<Myrtti> Tm_K: and if it's unofficial, it's pretty useless, and could be integrated to -ot
<Pici> ikonia: Saying that all channels that don't serve a direct project not exist.
<ikonia> Pici: a direct purpose, not project
<Pici> er, not project, purpose.
<ikonia> I get you
<nhandler> Myrtti: Some forum mods are in there. Some forum contributors are there too
<ikonia> I just feel there should be a point of a channel beyond I want it
<ikonia> I can see real value as a discussion channel for the forum
<ikonia> not as a support/offtopic channel though
<nhandler> Myrtti: They should not be forced to be there (just like devs aren't forced to be in #ubuntu-devel or #ubuntu-motu)
<Tm_K> Myrtti: agree with you
<Myrtti> nhandler: some. not all. if they're not all there, the use of it as an official backchannel is somewhat dubious
<Pici> The loco channels I'm in are more support/ot discussion than anything loco involved, surely those have the same right to exist as our core channels.
<ikonia> Pici: not disupting right to exist, more a case of can we do this better
<nhandler> Myrtti: Why? Most Ubuntu teams don't require their members to be in the IRC channel. That doesn't make the channel any more/less official
<ikonia> Pici: if there is a channel that serves it's purpose better, why make it harder
<nhandler> ikonia: And discussion about the forum would probably be on topic for #ubuntuforums, nobody ever said that it wasn't
<Tm_K> I suggest that we promote the channel for forums folks, as I see a purpose for it, just that it should be used for it too
<Tm_K> used/used more
<ikonia> nhandler: no, but jpds's email said support and offtopic was it's core use really
<jpds> wut.
<ikonia> jpds: even better you're here now
<ikonia> what's the main function of #ubuntuforums ?
<Pici> "#ubuntuforums is a cozy, small low-traffic offtopic chatter channel. Most of the people hanging out in the channel have been in the channel for years and there's a pretty well-developed web of friendship within the group."
<ikonia> ok, so it's basically a loco channel with no localisation
<topyli> seems to me, however, that the issue as presented by menza on our agenda was that the channel deviated from the code of conduct, not its existance
<Pici> ikonia: The 'forums' are the project that ties the people together.
<ikonia> Pici: yup,
<Pici> topyli: Yes.
<ikonia> so it's a "group, in the same way of a loco
<Pici> topyli: And the IRCC has access there, the access list has been cleaned up to remove people who are no longer forums admins.  I am always in the channel as well.
<Pici> Its on my 'main list' of channels that I look at in irssi as well.
<topyli> Pici, ok, so can we close the issue?
<ikonia> seems it's all sorted and fine then
<Pici> topyli: yes.
<nhandler> Great
<nhandler> [TOPIC] Revisit #ubuntu-ops policies including 'no idling' & +v
<MootBot> New Topic:  Revisit #ubuntu-ops policies including 'no idling' & +v
<nhandler> Pricey: Daviey: You guys around?
<nhandler> This topic got discussed at our last meeting
<Pici> yes, and I don't think that the discussion on the mailing list has finished, even though it has calmed down a bit.
<ikonia> it's getting a little more productive and constructive from my reading
<Tm_K> I haven't had much chance to participate the ML discussion yet
<nhandler> Do you think holding off a little longer and letting the discussion would be beneficial?
<Tm_K> nhandler: yes
<Pici> Yes from me as well.
<tsimpson> I think so too
<topyli> ok, let's give it time since it's not urgent
<Myrtti> I'm still trying to craft a constructive, non-trolling message to the thread
<nhandler> I think it might also be a good idea to try and pull the various ideas along with their pros/cons from the ML and put them on the wiki so that they are easy to pick out of the long thread
<tsimpson> consider this a call for more comments
<tsimpson> and discussion of the pros/cons of the ideas would be nice on the ML
<Pici> nhandler: Thats a good idea.  So we aren't constantly milling over the same things.
<Tm_K> nhandler: +1
<topyli> i have yet to see new ideas come up, apart from what appeared in the first day or two. however, i'm willing to wait
<Tm_K> that's what we used with -women
<nhandler> Is someone willing to volunteer to create the wiki page?
<tsimpson> silence...
<Flannel> Sure
<nhandler> [AGREED] Allow mailing list discussion to continue until next meeting.
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Allow mailing list discussion to continue until next meeting.
<tsimpson> oh, I was just about to volunteer too :)
<nhandler> [AGREED] Create wiki page with suggestions and their pros/cons
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Create wiki page with suggestions and their pros/cons
<nhandler> Flannel: Thanks
<Flannel> tsimpson: We can do it together!
<tsimpson> sure :)
<nhandler> :)
<topyli> awww, community :)
<Tm_K> Flannel: tsimpson: thanks
<nhandler> [ACTION] Flannel and tsimpson to create wiki page documenting the suggestions and their pros/cons
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Flannel and tsimpson to create wiki page documenting the suggestions and their pros/cons
<nhandler> [TOPIC] Closure of the #ubuntu-helpteam channel
<MootBot> New Topic:  Closure of the #ubuntu-helpteam channel
<Daviey> nhandler: \o
<topyli> this channel apparently was not a great success?
<nhandler> Daviey: Read up. We were discussing the #ubuntu-ops policies topic
<topyli> referring to -helpteam, not this one :)
<Tm_K> topyli: haven't seen much activity there yet
<Tm_K> but then again, that doesn't mean it cannot be good addition in the long run
<nhandler> The ML has one message from this month, and the next most recent message is from August 2008
<Pici> Are we talking about #ubuntu-irc-helpers or is there a differnt helpteam channel?
<nhandler> Pici: This is #ubuntu-helpteam (a different team)
<Pici> I'm the only person there.
<nhandler> It looks like the team is dead. Their last meeting was March 08 2008
<topyli> i say close it
<Pici> Agreed.  If its still needed, then we can re-open it.
<nhandler> I can contact coolbhavi (the founder) about that
<Pici> Okay, sounds good to me.
<nhandler> tsimpson: You ok with this?
<tsimpson> yes
<nhandler> [AGREED] Close #ubuntu-helpteam
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Close #ubuntu-helpteam
<nhandler> [ACTION] nhandler to contact coolbhavi about closing #ubuntu-helpteam
<MootBot> ACTION received:  nhandler to contact coolbhavi about closing #ubuntu-helpteam
<nhandler> [TOPIC] Discuss what our "official procedure" for ban removal is, should ops remove other ops bans etc
<MootBot> New Topic:  Discuss what our "official procedure" for ban removal is, should ops remove other ops bans etc
<nhandler> tsimpson: You are up
<tsimpson> the basic issue here is this, should ops remove other ops bans?
<tsimpson> I think, unless stated in the BT, we should be able to
<Tm_K> tsimpson: agreed on that, especially if it's clear case
<topyli> i agree completely
<tsimpson> this would reduce the number of times we say "come back when ... is here"
<nhandler> I agree tsimpson. If the OP who set the ban is around, I think they should make the decision about whether to remove the ban. If not, I have no issue with another op from that channel talking to the user and removing the ban if appropriate
<nhandler> However, a PM to the OP who set the ban from the OP removing it would also be nice
<Pici> nhandler: Agreed.
<topyli> yes
<tsimpson> yes, if the op who set the ban is there, they should take the lead. if not, other ops can step in
<Flannel> When I ban someone, I'm doing something that anyone else would do if they were me.  I have no "ownership" of that ban, I just happened to be watching at the right time.
<Pici> I think this will encourage people to comment more on bans.
<Flannel> If that's not the case, and there's further knowledge required, I am sure to comment on the BT.
<Tm_K> Flannel: that's how it goes typically
<nhandler> However, if an OP really doesn't know much about the user being discussed, I think it would still be beneficial to defer to the OP who set the ban.
<Tm_K> and yeah, commenting++
<Flannel> Tm_K: Unfortunately, that's not the policy many of the ops take, and people are forced to catch 'their' op
<nhandler> But commenting will definitely help with that
<tsimpson> we seem have this "unwritten policy" that we don't touch others bans, I think this needs to change
<topyli> tsimpson, yes that's the issue and i agree
<nhandler> Is there anyone who thinks only the OP who set the ban should remove it?
<Pici> *tumbleweed*
<Myrtti> is there anyone who thinks anyone of the ops should remove it, without discussing it with the original banner?
<Flannel> Myrtti: Yes.
<Myrtti> Flannel: in *any* and *all* cases?
<Flannel> In general, I don't think there's any reason for someone to be notified
<Flannel> Myrtti: There are *always* corner cases
<tsimpson> Myrtti: this is for when the original banner is _not_ there
<Flannel> Myrtti: If you set a ban and think you should be the one to deal with it, for whatever reason, comment on the BT
<Pici> Myrtti: Unless the operator doesn't feel comfortable about removing it, or theres a note on the BT about the incident.
<topyli> Myrtti, thinking is allowed, whatever the policy. we can't write everything down
<nhandler> Flannel: A PM to the OP who set the ban is always nice.
<Tm_K> "In doubt, discuss" is good rule in this, as usual
<Flannel> nhandler: The only reason I see for that is to notify that they wouldn't be evading later.
<Myrtti> Flannel: - so you do make an exception to cases where there is a note in the bt. thank you. I was trying to polarize so you'd articulate the opinion clearly
<Flannel> Myrtti: I remarked about BT comments in my original statement.
<Flannel> Myrtti: The issue is the "default" status right now is "if I didn't ban, I won't remove"
<Myrtti> it's not my default status
<Myrtti> but oh well, move on
<nhandler> So it sounds like we are in agreement that any OP from the channel should be able to remove the ban, even if they did not set it
<topyli> Myrtti is ahead of her time! so can we decide?
<tsimpson> Myrtti: that's the problem with "unwritten policy"
<topyli> right
<Tm_K> I think we have concensus on this
<Myrtti> this is somewhat linked to the last item of the agenda
<tsimpson> which is why I want to make it official policy
<Flannel> nhandler: commenting will also help with bans that the BT doesn't have adequate backlog about (either the ban was old, or theres some other reason that the log in the BT doesn't have info regarding the ban)
<Myrtti> about those cases that actually *DO* have notes in the BT "do not remove without consultation"
<Tm_K> as long as there's no set/remove wars (:)
<tsimpson> then we trust the original op has good reasons for saying that and leave it
<nhandler> Yes, comments in the BT will definitely help.
<Myrtti> and there are some that are known by the old ops folklore that might not have it
<tsimpson> old bans can be commented on as easily as new ones
<tsimpson> but, experience is something you get over time
<Pici> If this is decided, I think we should send an email on the mailing list about it, not everyone is present here and/or keeps up on what was decided at these meetings.
<nhandler> And a PM to the OP who set the ban will also help catch mistakes (a user being unbanned when they shouldn't be due to a missing comment or something)
<Tm_K> Pici: yes, + wiki
<nhandler> Pici: +1. A bullet on the OP wiki page might also be nice (not sure if anything else there will need to be updated)
<tsimpson> the op guidelines would be a good place to note it too
<topyli> belongs to the operator guidelines wiki page
<nhandler> [AGREED] OPs can remove bans set by other OPs
<MootBot> AGREED received:  OPs can remove bans set by other OPs
<nhandler> Anyone want to volunteer to do the email/wiki updates?
<Pici> Shall I write up something for the mailing list?
<nhandler> Pici: If you want. Do you want to update the wiki too?
<Tm_K> ...we should recommend all ops to subscribe to operator guidelines wikipage
<Pici> nhandler: not particularly ;)
<nhandler> I can update the wiki
<tsimpson> Tm_K: we could put that on the guidelines... oh wait ;P
<topyli> heh. i can do the wi... never mind :)
<nhandler> [ACTION] Pici to send email to mailing list about this change
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Pici to send email to mailing list about this change
<nhandler> [ACTION] nhandler to update the relevant wiki pages
<MootBot> ACTION received:  nhandler to update the relevant wiki pages
<Tm_K> tsimpson: everytime someone asks and says he didn't know there's something new, let's slap with the subscription
<nhandler> jussi01 said we should skip his cloak topic for now
<nhandler> Tm_K: Recommending is fine imo, requiring would not be.
<Tm_K> nhandler: even if we all would say yes for it? ):
<topyli> his item, let
<Tm_K> nhandler: true that
<topyli> s postpone
<nhandler> [TOPIC] Discuss general attitude for -ops, how we are expected to behave
<MootBot> New Topic:  Discuss general attitude for -ops, how we are expected to behave
<tsimpson> I'm requesting we move my next topic to the ML, it's not exactly something we can vote and take action on
<nhandler> I have no issue with that
<topyli> agreed
<Tm_K> tsimpson: +1
<tsimpson> I'll write up an email explaining what exactly it's about and we can bring it up at another meeting
<Pici> Fine with me.
<nhandler> [AGREED] Move discussion on general attitude for -ops to the ML
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Move discussion on general attitude for -ops to the ML
<Tm_K> ...and to comment it, we should show the _good_ example (:
<nhandler> [ACTION] tsimpson to start discussion about 0ops attitude and behavior on the mailing list
<MootBot> ACTION received:  tsimpson to start discussion about 0ops attitude and behavior on the mailing list
<nhandler> [TOPIC] Request to add #ubuntu-women to core channels
<MootBot> New Topic:  Request to add #ubuntu-women to core channels
<nhandler> pleia2: You there?
<Tm_K> nhandler: haven't answered my pings
<nhandler> She has been idle for ~6 hours. akgraner says she can represent Ubuntu Women for this topic
<akgraner> hi all.. so with all the discussion in and around UW and irc channels lately we had a few questions
<akgraner> how does a project become a core IRC channel?
 * persia has a question regarding "OPs can remove bans set by other OPs" and would like to discuss it when the topic is again free (sorry for missing that topic)
<akgraner> what would be the benefit to UW being a core irc channel from the IRCC persecutive?
<akgraner> I looked on the wiki's but could not find the guidelines to what it takes for a project to be defined as a core channel - did I miss it?
<nhandler> I personally don't think the Ubuntu Women channel should be a core channel. It is a team channel, and I think it should remain that way
<nhandler> We don't really add teams as core channels
<Tm_K> akgraner: I would see one benefit in that directly: closer collaboration with core ops when dealing with misbehaviour/trolls and alike
<Tm_K> ...but that collaboration and closer cooperation can be achieved without this core status
<tsimpson> the main difference between a core and non-core channel is that the IRC Guidelines must be enforced on all core channels, and core ops will have access in core channels
<tsimpson> also, ops in core channels would be expected to idle in -ops
<persia> tsimpson: Don't core ops have access in team channels?  At least I believe that to be true for my team channels.
<Tm_K> persia: you mean IRCC ?
<akgraner> I asked the question - when does a project become core? and no one could point me to the answer anywhere
<persia> Tm_K: I'm not sure.  I set some flag when I set up the channel.
<tsimpson> core-ops is a slightly new term
<tsimpson> there will be a set of operators who are known as "core ops", they will have access in all core channels in addition to channel operators
<topyli> akgraner, i'm trying to think, but i can't answer that. core channels are ubuntu, kubuntu, xubuntu, ubuntustudio channels. not teams
<nhandler> persia: It is recommended that teams add UbuntuIrcCouncil with +votiA to the access list of channels in the Ubuntu namespace, but this isn't actively enforced afaik
<persia> Ah, I see the distinction.  Sorry for not keeping up with the new team.
 * persia retracts
<tsimpson> the IRCC would, in effect, be a member of the core ops team, but there will be others
<Tm_K> akgraner: there's no procedure, I think
<tsimpson> persia: it's quite a new thing, so I'm not surprised you haven't heard much about it yet
<nhandler> The list of core channels can be found on the wiki
<Tm_K> but should this be decided by IRCC ?
<nhandler> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcTeam/Scope
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcTeam/Scope
<czajkowski> nhandler: with your comment there, is that the same for LoCo teams ?
<Tm_K> I mean becoming core channel
<tsimpson> Tm_K: I think that's a good idea
<akgraner> I guess that is what we were looking for.. how and when does a project become vital
<Tm_K> so basicly contacting IRCC
<tsimpson> if we are going to have core channels, we should describe exactly what and why core channels are core channels
<akgraner> enough to the project to become core
<ikonia> would it not be better for #ubuntu-women to find it's feet first
<ikonia> it's had a lot of changes recently
<nhandler> czajkowski: Yes, it is to allow the IRCC to intervene if a serious issue comes up and no OPs can be contacted
<tsimpson> at the moment, only the main support channels, their respective offtopic channels, and -devel land are core
<topyli> i wonder if we have authority to decide on our own scope
<ikonia> once the project has scope decide
<nhandler> akgraner: What would Ubuntu Women hope to gain by becoming a core channel?
<akgraner> nhandler, we were discussing IRC purposes and then the question of core channels and the importance of the project in the big Ubuntu picture
<akgraner> and went looking for those definitions
<czajkowski> nhandler: I assume also as we're now creating 2 channels one core channel for the project and one not
<nhandler> akgraner: Being a core channel has nothing to do with the team's importance. For instance, the doc team is important in the Ubuntu community, but #ubuntu-doc is not a core channel
<Pici> nhandler: Jussi and I originally spoke about adding -women as a core channel because its a decently active channel with a large population and was having a lot of issues.
<tsimpson> the only real difference between a core and non-core channel is that the IRCC is directly responsible for the channel, the core-ops will have +o there, and the ops will idle in -ops
<Tm_K> tsimpson: could that be achieved without being -core channel?
<czajkowski> tsimpson: well our core ops are already in -ops...
<Tm_K> czajkowski: not all, though
<czajkowski> Tm_K: a lot
<tsimpson> if it becomes core, all ops would need to idle there
<Pici> Decisions about idle policy in -ops notwithstanding.
<akgraner> Those were my questions concerning UW and core IRC channels.. I think some of it was OBE after the decision was made on having 2 channels
<Pici> OBE?
<tsimpson> Pici: ops are not effected by the no-idle policy
<akgraner> overcome by events
<Tm_K> tsimpson: which ops? any channel? official ubuntu channel?
<tsimpson> Tm_K: operators in core channels
<Pici> tsimpson: Yes, but if u-w doesnt become a core channel, then those ops are free to idle in -ops if they want,  depending on what our other decision is.
<tsimpson> Tm_K: "The operators of the above channels are expected to idle in #ubuntu-ops and are voiced in this channel"
<akgraner> will there be any "offical" documentation about what makes a core-irc team and the criteria needed before one can be added to the list?
<tsimpson> Pici: sure, but I was saying if it becomes core, all of their ops should idle there
<persia> I'd like to see a much clearer outline of structure and expectations.  Watching this discussion, I'm suddenly unsure if I'm in compliance as an op, and find that I am much less able to have an opinion on whether a given channel is, or should be, core.
<akgraner> channel not team
<Tm_K> tsimpson: yes, I asked so who were not familiar with that, are now
<tsimpson> akgraner: there is not now, but I think we do need to create that
<tsimpson> at the moment there seems to be no definition of why a core channel is core, we should create that definition
<Pici> tsimpson: +1
<nhandler> persia: Currently, OPs in the channels listed in the first list of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcTeam/Scope are expected to idle in #ubuntu-ops. Ops in #kubuntu-devel, #ubuntu-devel, or #ubuntu-motu are able to idle in -ops, but not required to
<nhandler> tsimpson: Agreed
<persia> nhandler: Right, but I think I agree with tsimpson here.
<akgraner> that would be great to have that defined
<nhandler> tsimpson: Would you like to start that discussion so we can try and get it definied by the next meeting?
<Tm_K> tsimpson: +1
<Pici> Lets have us (IRCC) discuss about what makes a core channel a core channel and then we can revisit this next time.
<akgraner> thanks you all...
<topyli> akgraner, i'm confused about the motivation. why exactly are we making -women a core channel?
<Tm_K> Pici: if that is ok to CC, that is?
<nhandler> Pici: +1
<akgraner> topyli, it was asked why we can't be? and I could not point to any reason why were couldn't be?  and if it was a core channel it would be subject to the rules of other core channels
<nhandler> topyli: You ok with Pici's suggestion?
<topyli> nhandler, oh yes
<akgraner> and we were trying to get the answer, before suggesting it on the mailing list
<tsimpson> we can't really answer if -women should be core without having defined what make a channel core
<Pici> Aye.
<nhandler> [AGREED] IRCC to discuss what makes a core channel a core channel and we will revisit this next meeting
<MootBot> AGREED received:  IRCC to discuss what makes a core channel a core channel and we will revisit this next meeting
<topyli> good
<nhandler> akgraner: There is nothing stopping you from enforcing the Ubuntu IRC guidelines in the channel
<Myrtti> as you already have, AFAIK
<Myrtti> (and are)
<akgraner> nhandler, nope there isn't  - but when people asked about if it could be
<akgraner> I needed a better answer than - we just aren't
<Tm_K> nhandler: I think we should add the idle exception in -ops to -women ops too
<czajkowski> nhandler: you'd be susprised how many people want to see it written somewhere first.
<Myrtti> Tm_K: there is no exception currently
<nhandler> czajkowski: Then write in on your wiki or /topic that the Ubuntu IRC Guidelines are enforced in this channel
<nhandler> persia: Want to ask your question now?
<Tm_K> Myrtti: then remove the "too" ? (:
<Pici> nhandler: It already is.
<topyli> Tm_K, i would prefer not to have exceptions, but instead make the channel core
<akgraner> and if we as a project were asking  - then we wanted some guidance on it
<persia> nhandler: Sure.  About the ops removing other ops bans.  I'm responsible for maintaining a specific long-term ban with complicated removal requirements: how can I ensure this isn't removed by someone else if the requirements have yet to be met?
<Flannel> persia: Comment on the bantracker
<persia> This is perhaps a different situation than most bans, but I'd like policy to cover it :)
<persia> Flannel: That's done.  If that's sufficient, then I'm happy with the prior [AGREED]
<persia> Thanks for letting me ask the question after the topic concluded :)
<tsimpson> well I think that's it for this meeting
<nhandler> persia: If there is a comment on the BT explaining the situation and why it should not be removed by someone else, you should be fine
<Flannel> persia: We're not robots, so proper commenting will work just fine
<persia> I'll double check, but that works for me.
<nhandler> tsimpson: Agreed.
<nhandler> Thanks for coming everyone
<topyli> nhandler, thanks for sacrificing yourself to chair
<tsimpson> the next meeting is on the 28th at 18:00 UTC (unless my math is flawed)
<akgraner> thanks everyone..
<nhandler> Does someone want to volunteer to take care of the team report page, updating the date on the wiki, updating MeetingLogs/IRCC and sending the minutes to ubuntu-irc@ ?
<nhandler> tsimpson: That is correct
<ikonia> have we run out of time ?
<ikonia> errrr why is that it ?
<nhandler> ikonia: We have been going for over an hour. I also have to go and take care of some stuff.
<ikonia> so we have run out of time
<nhandler> We will get to the rest of the agenda at the next meeting
<topyli> nhandler, can  do as long my logs are working
<Pici> ikonia:
<nhandler> topyli: logs will be up on irclogs.ubuntu.com
<Pici> ER.
<nhandler> [ACTION] topyli to take care of the team report page, updating the date on the wiki, updating MeetingLogs/IRCC and sending the minutes to  ubuntu-irc@ ?
<MootBot> ACTION received:  topyli to take care of the team report page, updating the date on the wiki, updating MeetingLogs/IRCC and sending the minutes to  ubuntu-irc@ ?
<topyli> nhandler, there goes my excuse :\
<nhandler> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 15:13.
<Pici> They'll be wherever mootbot puts them too
<Tm_K> thanks you all
<Tm_K> -s ):
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-02-07
<bbgolli> hey people, who should I contact if my @ubuntu email not be created in 7 days?
<bbgolli> any chance?
<Tm_T> bbgolli: #canonical-sysadmin might be the first stop
<bbgolli> TM_T: I could never get an answer from their channel!
<Tm_T> bbgolli: patience is a virtue; also follow the instructions in the channel topic
<bbgolli> ok thnx
<bbgolli> let me try
 * skaet waves sconklin
<sconklin> o/
<zul> hi
<skaet> hi zul,  pitti
<pitti> hey skaet
<pitti> skaet: FYI, I don't have that much time today, just 30 mins
 * marjo waves
<skaet> pitti,  thanks for letting know,  will see if I can get a kernel style efficient meeting.
<skaet> :)
<skaet> hi marjo
<skaet> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2011-02-07-SR
<marjo> skaet: i like the goal of "kernel style efficient meeting"
<skaet> heh
<skaet> to aid the efficiency,   agenda is in the link I just posted.
<skaet> will repreat it for the minutes, but feel free to look now ;)
<skaet> okie,  time to start I think
<skaet> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is skaet.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<skaet> Agenda can be found:
<skaet> [LINK]https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/StableReleaseAgenda
<MootBot> LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/StableReleaseAgenda
<skaet> Reminder, please follow the convention  of using ".." on a separate line when you've finished typing.    Also, If someone wants to comment on the last point, please "o/", so we know to wait.
<skaet> Focus for this week is 10.04.2.
<skaet> [TOPIC] 10.04.2
<MootBot> New Topic:  10.04.2
<skaet> pitti,  2 milestoned bugs left - any update on them?
<pitti> skaet: I just moved the desktopcouch one which newly appeared on the 10.04.2 list to .3
<skaet> pitti,  thanks.
<pitti> a year after release it can't be that urgent to re-do all the cert and other validation
<pitti> what's the other one?
<skaet> foundations one that's been on the list a while.
<skaet> see on agenda.
<pitti> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-10.04.2 has quite a bit more, so it's a bit hard to see
<skaet> 635273:Building debs with SWIG libraries do not work
 * skaet was just focusing on the high/critical 
<pitti> this doesn't look like a deal-breaker for .2 at all
<pitti> I think we should just move it
<skaet> fair enough,  will confirm with cjwatson, but lets assume that's the case.
<skaet> what is the update on the language packs?   which ones landed?
<pitti> FTR, I'm still wrestling with langpacks, I have build take #4 running right now
<pitti> skaet: we'll land all of them in -proposed, and then quick-verify the ones that are shipped on the images
<pitti> on desktops, anyway (not DVDs, as they probably ship all of them)
<pitti> I hope I can get them uploaded to -proposed within 2 hours now
<pitti> I'll coordinate testing handover with dpm
<pitti> but if anything should go wrong, we just use what we have now
<skaet> pitti,  sounds good.
<skaet> ..?
 * skaet wondering if pitti has anything else to add or is done, before moving on?
<pitti> ..
<pitti> sorry
<skaet> :)
<skaet> np
<skaet> ara,  how are we looking on HW cert?
<ara> * Almost all the servers and desktops are already covered. No regressions found so far. \o/
<ara> * This week the scope is testing laptops and netbooks and finishing the remaining desktops and servers.
<ara> We are on track to finish on time before Thursday.
<ara> ..
<skaet> ara,  thanks!  very good news.
<skaet> any questions for ara?
<marjo> ara: are there specific things you're depending on, or are all your dependencies ok?
<ara> marjo, everything is OK
<marjo> ara: in other words, there are no blockers for hw cert, right?
<ara> no :)
<marjo> ara: great to hear
<skaet> marjo, how are things looking from your side?
<marjo> skaet: this week we're doing the kernel/security testing
<marjo> and for 10.04.2, jibel has  started syncing images and will do upgrade testing this week.
<marjo> ..
<skaet> marjo,  sounds good.   encourage jibel to flag early if any issues show up with the upgrade testing ;)
<marjo> skaet: is there time today to discuss "tweaks to SRU kernel process"?
<skaet> marjo,  after 10.04.2 - we'll go on to SRU
<jibel> skaet, I will :-)
<skaet> thanks jibel
<marjo> skaet: thx much!
<skaet> pitti,  final images will be cut on Friday or Monday?
<pitti> can we do the final validation if we do them on Monday?
<pitti> would give us a tad more time for the langpacks
<pitti> but if Friday would be better, that works, too
<skaet> pitti,  suspect ara and jibel would prefer friday if at all possible,  so less of a scramble next week.
<skaet> ara, jibel - ?
<ara> skaet, I don't have a preference
<jibel> skaet, I'm fine with both
<marjo> pitti: what happens if you don't get the "tad more time for the langpacks" what's the downside risk?
<pitti> marjo: no risk involved; the less time we have, the fewer langpacks will make it to -updates, but no other harm done
<skaet> ok
<pitti> we don't depend on these, they would just be a "nice to have"
<marjo> pitti: understood; i like plans w/ "no risk involved" :)
<marjo> skaet: i would say let's go for Friday final image, ok?
<pitti> ack
<marjo> to avoid the scrambling
<marjo> pitti: thx much!
<skaet> pitti,  if langpaks are looking reasonable, cut the images on Friday and broadcast widely then.  If langpaks are problematic we can discuss.
<pitti> bah, they just failed again; firefox translations are broken
<skaet> we'll use u-release for discussions.
<marjo> pitti: will the initial langpacks include the ones used for the recent Qin image?
<pitti> Qin?
<skaet> Qin - chinese image
<skaet> marjo, wasn't that a maverick one?
<marjo> skaet: oh sorry
<pitti> I think so
<skaet> np
<skaet> any other questions about 10.04.2?
<pitti> marjo: but it only takes what launchpad translations has, no other sources
<marjo> pitti: then we're ok
<pitti> so if the chinese edition strings are on launchpad, it will be taken from langpack-o-matic
 * skaet keeps fingers crossed its only langpacks that are problematic for 10.04.2
<skaet> ok,  moving on..
<skaet> [TOPIC] SRU updates
<MootBot> New Topic:  SRU updates
<skaet> sconklin - what's happening with the kernels?
<sconklin> |
<sconklin> | Latest Lucid -proposed is 2.6.32-29.57
<sconklin> | Call for verification went out on Feb 4th
<sconklin> |
<sconklin> | Latest Maverick -proposed is 2.6.35-26.46
<sconklin> | Call for verification went out Feb 1st
<sconklin> |
<sconklin> | These were both copied out to -proposed last week.
<sconklin> |
<sconklin> | The status page with tracking bugs is here.
<sconklin> | Our tools will need changes to accomodate
<sconklin> | the ARM based kernels, so ignore all the information
<sconklin> | on that page for ARM kernels.
<sconklin> |
<sconklin> I got throttled, hold on
<sconklin> |
<sconklin> | https://kernel-tools.canonical.com/srus.html
<sconklin> |
<sconklin> ..
<skaet> what are the tracking bug numbers for maverick, lucid?
<sconklin> they are in the page I just linked
<skaet> thanks
<skaet> any questions for sconklin?
<ara> o/
<skaet> go ara
<ara> As we said, we were no going to be able to test SRUs this week. What is going to happen, then?
<ara> a new kernel is going to be uploaded next week?
<sconklin> Whatever is done will just wait in the queue until you are able to test
<ara> OK
<marjo> sconklin: does that mean QA team should hold off also?
<sconklin> We may upload new kernels to the PPA, but they will not be copied into -proposed until the ones in -proposed are published to updates
<marjo> sconklin: or keep going w/ regression testing starting today?
<sconklin> I thought that you were unable to do regression testing. Whether you can test or not and when cert can test will determine what we do next.
<marjo> sconklin: we can do "regression testing" this week, since alpha2 is done
<sconklin> If there will be no testing in the next week, we can just roll a new version to -proposed, and you can test that after a week in verification.
<sconklin> if Cert is blocked for another week, then it probably makes sense for us to publish new -proposed, and take all the existing verifications as done
<marjo> jibel: any suggestions?
<skaet> marjo,  thinking in dallas, was that this was opportunity to catch up on hardy and karmic.
<sconklin> skaet: catch up meaning what?
<skaet> sconklin,  run the regression testing
<sconklin> extra regression testing will never hurt, even if the tested versions are superseded in -proposed and not ultimately released
<skaet> sconklin,  was refering to hardy & karmic
<skaet> ?
<sconklin> that statement applied to every series
<skaet> heh
<skaet> :)
<sconklin> applies
<sconklin> but - in particular, we are concerned about server and virt testing for hardy in this and the next release
<skaet> marjo, jibel - ok to look at hardy, karmic this week?   then back into the regular pattern after 10.04.2 comes out.
<sconklin> (probably) for the next because there are some more rather invasive patches in the queue but they haven't been finalized
<sconklin> should good to me
<marjo>  skaet: ok, will do
 * pitti waves, need to leave
<sconklin> er . . . sounds good
 * skaet thanks pitti
<skaet> sconklin,  er... ?
<skaet> have I misunderstood/overlooked something?
<sconklin> sounds good to me to test Hardy and Karmic
<sconklin> ..
<skaet> ara - any updates/questions?
<ara> skaet, not from me
<jibel> so, on the QA side the plan is to do regression testing on Karmic and Hardy this week, then what's in -proposed for maverick and lucid after 10.04.2 is out ?
<skaet> jibel,  yup,  that's my understanding
<marjo> jibel: yup, that's my understanding
<jibel> okay. thanks
<ara> the certification team is not planning on testing until the week 19, as marked in:
<ara> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyReleaseInterlock
<skaet> ara,  yup.  :)
<sconklin> with the understanding that we may roll out a new -propsed for lucid and maverick before testing gets to it
<skaet> sconklin,  ack.
<marjo> sconklin: ack
 * skaet is doing a good snap set with marjo.  ;)
<skaet> any other questions about SRU updates?
<skaet> marjo did you want to talk about tweaks?
<marjo> skaet: thx
<marjo> hi folks
<marjo> i have a few simple tweaks and suggestions for the Kernel SRU process
<marjo> 1. I suggest that this be an agenda item for the SRU & LTS meeting, and make sure HW Cert team raise issues early. I've already asked Kate to include it.
<marjo> 2. Ensure all critical and high importance bugs are verified in a timely manner. If not, Jean-Baptiste or his backup will perform the testing.
<marjo> 3. Jean-Baptiste will specifically ask at the meeting if there are specific bugs that need verification that aren't being done by the bug reporter. If necessary, a QA team member will do the verification. If not able (e.g. lack of specific HW), will do more calls for testing and nag the bug reporter again.
<marjo> 4. Set up separate SRU verification program, for big packages like eglibc, python, X. As you know, we've done that before for mesa.
<marjo> ..
<marjo> too bad pitti's not here...
<sconklin> for 3, who will do the tracking and asking?
<marjo> sconklin: by default, jibel, but we don't want to duplicate efforts already in place by pitti & sconklin
<skaet> marjo,  yeah,  we need to take this suggestion up with with pitti off line as well.
<sconklin> marjo, so are you proposing that someone from QA begin to track all the bugs requiring verification?
<marjo> sconklin: i'm trying to avoid the last minute scrambling to do fix verification when bug reporters don't do them
<pitti> still catching up on backscroll, but only 1/4 brain here
<marjo> sconklin: no, we just want to get heads up on those that are not getting verified in a timely manner
<sconklin> Has there been a problem with this? We have had almost 100% of verifications done quickly for the last few cycles
<sconklin> And has that impacted QA or cert?
<pitti> also, the kernel is really quite special here
<pitti> we just need a large amount of testing there because it changes so much
<bjf> marjo, are you trying to solve a real problem today or anticipating an issue ?
<pitti> we don't allow these kind of changes in any other package (like in X.org)
<marjo> bjf: i'm trying to head off the cases where bug reporter doesn't do verification, so someone (QA team) has to try
<skaet> sconklin, marjo - tags of verification needed can be surveyed to figure out which are outstanding,  and then look at high/critical.
<marjo> and we want to know ASAP
<sconklin> marjo: How often has this happened? I wasn't aware that this was happening
<marjo> skaet: yes, that's one way to implement this
<bjf> marjo, we have a clear policy on that, if it's not verified by the reporter, we revert the patch
<skaet> sconklin,  bjf - outside the kernel,  there are some good fixes getting no love, since the reporter is the one that fixed it.
<marjo> bjf: ok, so maybe these don't apply to kernel, because it's more well behaved
<sconklin> oh, sorry. I'm in my kernel bubble
<marjo> sconklin: yes, you are :)
<skaet> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html
<sconklin> well, you said that these were kernel SRU tweaks, . . .
<marjo> sconklin: yes, i did ..
<sconklin> Have you been having to do verification for any kernel bugs?
<marjo> sconklin: would you say that this is NOT a problem for the kernel case
<marjo> ?
<marjo> sconklin: in general, we (QA team) try to verify fixes if the bug reporter doesn't
<sconklin> it's not a problem because if people don't test their changed we revert them. I know that some people have had to scramble for testing because they lacked hardware, but I didn't know that it was falling on your team. If it is, we'll look at it
<marjo> but only if we have the HW, resources, etc.
<marjo> we try to help...
<marjo> sconklin: thx much
<skaet> marjo, sconlin,  thanks.
<sconklin> marjo: ok, that sounds great - and the best way to determine what needs verification is just to look at our sru status page and see what's not verified
<marjo> skaet: so i think that's it from me
<victorp> marjo for #1 could you give an example when hw cert have not raised an issue early?
<sconklin> If you can verify fixes and save us the pain of reverting and get good fixes out, I'm all for that
<marjo> victorp: remember ara had to raise the issue re: eglibc? i think you and i agree this should have been caught earlier
<marjo> victorp: that's why i'm making these suggestions
<marjo> so, hw cert doesn't have to scramble
<marjo> sconklin: ack
<victorp> yes, but couldnt possibly find it earlier because we are not involve in it
<marjo> victorp: we know
<victorp> basically QA has to find it earliear so it is not up to hw cert to find it
<marjo> victorp: we know
<marjo> victorp: we're trying to help you (HW cert)
<victorp> marjo, great
<marjo> victorp: thx!
<victorp> in that case you may rephrase the problem statement
<marjo> skaet: thx, that's it from me
<skaet> okie,  thanks.
<victorp> and it will help every one if we get it right not just he cert
<victorp> hw cert
<marjo> victorp: ack
<skaet> before meeting ends... any input from security,  OEM,  support teams?   any escalations?
 * skaet looks around?
<skaet> any other questions?
<skaet> going once
<skaet> going twice
<skaet> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:55.
<marjo> thx skaet!
<sconklin> thanks!
<skaet> thanks marjo, victorp, sconklin, bjf, ara, pitti
<ara> thanks skaet!
<victorp> skaet -thanks
<jdstrand> o/
<mdeslaur> hi!
<jdstrand> let's wait a couple of minutes for sbeattie, kees and jjohansen
<sbeattie> hey
<jjohansen> o/
<kees> \o
<jdstrand> \o/
<jdstrand> alrighty, let's get started
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:03. The chair is jdstrand.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Review of any previous action items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review of any previous action items
<jdstrand> so, for my actions, I:
<jdstrand> wrote up meeting minutes and submitted to team for review. These can now be found in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting under 'Previous Meetings'
<jdstrand> added keyring and apt tests to TODO in the QRT scripts (that was surprisingly easy ;)
<jdstrand> added vm-iso work to Roadmap (that too :)
<jdstrand> followed up with skaet on Dapper eol. she is aware. it is currently at 30 days prior to eol. I advised doing a 'heads-up' announcement 90 days before eol for LTS to give LTS users an easier migration path
<jdstrand> she thoguht it was a good idea and is taking it to other interested parties
<jdstrand> so, I think that is it for me...
<jdstrand> kees: update umt to use update-maintainer. iirc you did that already, right?
<kees> jdstrand: eek, no, it got lost. will do asap.
<jdstrand> ah, no worries
<jdstrand> kees: thanks
<jdstrand> sbeattie: I have you down with 'respin ia32-libs'
<sbeattie> jdstrand: no progress there.
<jdstrand> ok
<jdstrand> those can just carry through then
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I guess I'll go first
<jdstrand> started writing aa-disable (based on aa-complain) and I should send that up later today
<jdstrand> need to follow up on chromium-browser on armel
<jdstrand> I published chromium-browser on saturday, but armel mysteriously restarted
<jdstrand> (thanks Mr Buildd)
<jdstrand> so I uploaded a no change rebuild
<jdstrand> firefox is this week, so I'll be testing that
<jdstrand> looking at dbus/apparmor
<jdstrand> and I'm on triage
<kees> (jdstrand: okay, update-maintainer done now)
<jdstrand> kees: thanks
<jdstrand> kees: you're up
<kees> okay, I'm on community this week.
<kees> last week I spent way too much time working on an embargoed issue, but the maintainer popped up on friday
<kees> so now we're kind of starting over on how to fix the problem, so that'll probably burn more time this week.
<jdstrand> heh
<kees> hopefully I won't need to fight for my %pK patches on lkml this week, as that debate should be over
<kees> but it's not in -mm yet
<jdstrand> nice
<kees> but they should be in natty at least.
<kees> I was going to spend some time updating chroots for debian's release
<kees> and report /proc DAC bypasses to lkml
<kees> if by magic I have free time, I wanted to work on gcc testsuite updates for the hardening bits. the other half needs to go upstream.
<kees> that's it from me.
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: do you want to go next?
<mdeslaur> sure
<mdeslaur> so, I'm currently publishing dovecot updates
<mdeslaur> last week took a lot of my time fixing the dovecot test suite
<mdeslaur> I plan on working on exim4 and fuse next
<mdeslaur> although I might wait until the fuse stuff in -proposed goes through first
<mdeslaur> as it's aggravated by installing fuse security updates
<mdeslaur> and that's it from me
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up
<sbeattie> mdeslaur: you may need to do some pushing to get fuse through -proposed, but I haven't look at the specific issues.
<mdeslaur> is lucid still frozen?
<mdeslaur> when does it unfreeze?
<sbeattie> yeah, lucid is still frozen, until 10.04.2 releases.
<sbeattie> I *think* that's this week, but not sure (need to check the schedule)
<jdstrand> I thought it released next week
<jdstrand> which is why QA has time this week to QA the kernel security updates
 * jdstrand is not sure
<sbeattie> not sure, either, should have read through the SRU meeting scrollback from this morning.
<sbeattie> Anyway, I released openjdk and posgresql last week.
<sbeattie> I was also on community last week, and uploaded twiki and drupal6 to security-proposed.
 * jdstrand takes hint from sbeattie and finds "Planned Release Date: February 17, 2011"
<sbeattie> I got partway through reviewing a patch for cacti, and will finish looking at that this week.
<sbeattie> (for sponsering)
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: cool, thanks
<sbeattie> I think that's all for me.
<jdstrand> sbeattie: are you carrying over the 2.5.2 and 2.6 snapshots to this week?
<jdstrand> (apparmor)
<sbeattie> yes
<jdstrand> cool
<sbeattie> yeah, planning on doing a bit of release management there this week.
<jdstrand> alright, moving on
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous
<MootBot> New Topic:  Miscellaneous
<jdstrand> just a couple of things, no action items unless people get excited about one
<jdstrand> I've added AppArmor profiles for totem-video-thumbnailer, gnome-thumbnail-font and telepathy backends to the Roadmap since the all could easily handle untrusted content
<sbeattie> Oh cool.
<jdstrand> I very quickly looked at the apparmor bp, and postponed a couple of things based on the current status. eg, I postponed the techdoc stuff. I think it may be less important now with all the other doc updates in the wiki, but we can discuss that another time
<jdstrand> jjohansen: I'm curious about 'Merge in parser cleanups' and 'Reduce dfa creation memory use'. both are INPROGRESS. are these actually done (I thought they were)?
<jjohansen> jdstrand: no, they are works in progress
<jjohansen> jdstrand: bits and pieces of them are done
<jdstrand> jjohansen: ok, then the status is correct. thanks
<jdstrand> that is all I have. does anyone from the team have anything else to discuss?
<jjohansen> jdstrand: there are bits and pieces I could start asking for patch reviews on but really they should come as a unit (ie a complete patch set)
<jdstrand> jjohansen: that is fine. no rush, just curious :)
<jjohansen> jdstrand: nor will all the cleanups get merged this cycle
<jjohansen> there are lots and lots of them
<jjohansen> but we will do what we can
<kees> I have one: we should schedule conference times
<jdstrand> jjohansen: sure. maybe we could break them up a bit, and then move the ones we know won't hit to future items?
<jdstrand> kees: yes, I have it on my todo to investigate/ask about that
<kees> okay, sounds good.
<jdstrand> jjohansen: it doesn't have to be super detailed, but just so we have a better idea of what will hit and what won't
<jjohansen> jdstrand: sure
<jdstrand> jjohansen: in fact, future cleanups could be very general, and we can pull in the specific ones per cycle as work items
<jdstrand> jjohansen: thanks
<jdstrand> ok, moving on
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Questions
<MootBot> New Topic:  Questions
<jdstrand> does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
 * jdstrand might change the to Miscellaneous & Questions...
<jdstrand> alright, thanks everyone!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:31.
<mdeslaur> thanks!
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks!
<jdstrand> sure! :)
<kees> thanks jdstrand!
<Laney> account on
<Laney> err you aren't bitlbee
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-02-08
<persia> Is this one of those Tuesdays?
<nigelb> persia: the last week was
<nigelb> persia: unfortunately, everyone except elky didn't think so
<persia> Ah, then next week will be.
<elky> i think we've missed enough we can probably agree to any tuesday and reset it from there.
<persia> Apparently our next scheduled meeting is 4th January.  Shall we have one 15th February then, and try to get back with the program from there?
<head_victim> Heh almost enough for a quorum now?
<nigelb> When does more people get added to the board again?
<persia> head_victim, perhaps, but not in a way that is useful: we're clearly fail to attract candidates in a way that is useful.
 * persia , in the absence of clear comment, updates the wiki page to claim a date
<kees> mdz, pitti, cjwatson: meeting in a few minutes. can't find Keybuk or sabdfl, though.
<pitti> o/
<cjwatson> here, more or less
<mdz> kees, clan mailed saying sabdfl wouldn't make it
<mdz> (t-b@)
<kees> mdz: ah, thanks.
<mdz> kees, I tidied up the agenda based on pitti's minutes from last time
<kees> mdz: oh, excellent
<cjwatson> (I've just moderated clan's mail)
<kees> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:01. The chair is kees.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<kees> [TOPIC] action review
<MootBot> New Topic:  action review
<kees> mdz - Set the release manager to ubuntu-release
<mdz> kees, so I'm confused about this
<mdz> the release manager for natty is already ubuntu-release
<mdz> is that what was meant here, or did it mean something else?
<kees> I think that's what was meant; there were the notes from the rally TB
<cjwatson> I think it wasn't when that action was taken
<mdz> ok, so that's done then
<kees> ok, next
<kees> mdz - Review ubuntu-drivers membership and make sure it includes (only) people who need to manage blueprints
<mdz> I haven't reviewed ubuntu-drivers
<mdz> I think someone else should review ubuntu-release
<kees> ok, carried over
<kees> mdz - Review ubuntu-release membership
<kees> carried over
<kees> mdz - Set the owner/maintainer to techboard
<mdz> done
<cjwatson> the ubuntu-release membership looks correct to me
<kees> mdz - announce something to ubuntu-devel-announce
<mdz> not done
<kees> bdmurray - file bug about bug supervisor not being able to set bug reporting guidelines for Ubuntu as a whole
<kees> I think this was done, but I can't find the bug currently
<pitti> u-release> not sure about Iulian and Stefan (whether they still want to be involved), but otherwise it looks fine to me
<kees> [action] kees will follow up with bdmurray about his action
<MootBot> ACTION received:  kees will follow up with bdmurray about his action
<kees> pitti - check with James Troup about current quality experience of pool.ntp.org
<pitti> done, will present the details in the actual topic
<kees> okay
<kees> pitti - add TB as vendor contact point for http://groups.google.com/group/ntppool-vendors?pli=1
<kees> saw that was done
<pitti> done
<kees> okay, were there any other actions we needed to review that weren't already listed?
<kees> [topic] Default ntpd configuration  https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/104525
<MootBot> New Topic:  Default ntpd configuration  https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/104525
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 104525 in ntp (Ubuntu) "default ntp.conf should use pool.ntp.org servers" [Wishlist,Triaged]
<kees> where does this stand currently?
<pitti> I talked to James about it
<mdz> I brought it up, but I missed the last meeting
<pitti> we reviewed that a couple of years ago, and then it was still not very reliable
<pitti> but these days they have a pretty good probing system and network, and throw servers out of the rotation when they are off by .1 s or more (checked three times an hour)
<pitti> so from a reliability POV James was okay with it now
<pitti> his main concern is security
<pitti> i. e. a server could send out bad times to all clients except to the one that is doing the probing
<mdz> what's the worst case scenario?
<pitti> so that you could infiltrate the network with several servers which send out the wrong time
<pitti> that's quite a lot of effort, of course
<pitti> the advantage is that it provides nice geolocation support, i. e. selects a server near you, and has a large round-robin network
<pitti> it would be interesting to see whether they plan DNSSEC support, but then again ntp.u.c. doesn't have that either
<mdz> pitti, quite a lot of effort, yes, and what is there to gain?
<mdz> seems like DoS
<cjwatson> I think we should remember that this is replacing a hardcoded list of server names
<cjwatson> which we never maintain AFAIK
<cjwatson> I have a hard time seeing how it wouldn't be an improvement
<kees> apt has rewind and staleness protections, so the worst-case with targetted time attacks would be a freeze attack convincing apt to never update.
<mdz> kees, and most users probably inflict a much more successful attack on themselves by not installing updates ;-)
<pitti> you could also envision running somethign like ebay on a machine like that, and tricking that into thinking that an auction is still happening when it shoudln't be any more, etc.
<kees> mdz: right
<pitti> i. e. there are certaily interesting attacks, but it still by and large feels theoretical to me
<pitti> (and it hasn't happened so far)
<kees> yup
<mdz> pitti, on the plus side, if there are millions of clients using that pool, an attempt to subvert it would likely be noticed quickly
<pitti> so in summary, from what I've heard from the admins there and after discussion with James, I'm happy about the proposal
<cjwatson> anyway, this discussion has been had in the bug, see e.g. comment 6
<pitti> i. e. to have X.ubuntu.pool.ntp.org and ntp.u.c. in the default config
<mdz> wfm
<cjwatson> (replacing> in gnome-system-tools, I mean)
<cjwatson> I'm also happy for us to go ahead at this point; especially security-sensitive sites are still free to use their own NTP servers, and they may well already do so
<kees> right. I'd agree as well.
<pitti> cjwatson: indeed, the list in g-s-t is quite bad; we should IMHO replace that in any case, even if we'd not change (or revert) the ntpd.conf list)
<pitti> so that there's only very little reason to change it at all
<kees> should we specifically vote on this?
<mdz> I think we just did
<cjwatson> we seem to have straw-poll consensus
<kees> okay, so the proposal would be to switch the default ntp servers to {0,1,2,3}.ubuntu.pool.ntp.org, yes?
<pitti> kees: plus ntp.u.c. for ntpd.conf
<pitti> (at least that was the proposal we discussed last time)
<kees> pitti: ntpd.conf would get {0,1,2,3}.ubuntu.pool.ntp.org and ntp.u.c?
<pitti> that's how I understood it, anyway; perhaps just three from the pool
<pitti> then if ntp.org would fail, we'd still have the ubuntu one
<kees> [vote] switch the default ntp servers to {0,1,2,3}.ubuntu.pool.ntp.org plus ntp.ubuntu.com
<MootBot> Please vote on:  switch the default ntp servers to {0,1,2,3}.ubuntu.pool.ntp.org plus ntp.ubuntu.com.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<kees> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from kees. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<mdz> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from mdz. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<pitti> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from pitti. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<mdz> I assume someone has checked that they are prepared to handle this volume of clients...
<pitti> they seemed happy enough about it
<cjwatson> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<pitti> "they" -> ntp.org admins, haven't checked the servers obviously
<kees> [end]
<kees> er
 * cjwatson eyes up https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ntp/+bug/715141 and wonders if pool.ntp.org does IPv6 ...
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 715141 in ntp (Ubuntu) "ntp.ubuntu.com does not have AAAA record" [Undecided,New]
<kees> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<pitti> [etov]? :-)
<kees> $ host -t AAAA 2.ubuntu.pool.ntp.org
<kees> 2.ubuntu.pool.ntp.org has no AAAA record
<cjwatson> http://lists.ntp.org/pipermail/pool/2010-October/005234.html etc.
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://lists.ntp.org/pipermail/pool/2010-October/005234.html etc.
<kees> okay, that passed. who wants to implement it?
<pitti> I'm happy to take g-s-t
<mdz> jdstrand touched ntp last ;-)
<pitti> want to coordinate a bit with upstream there
<jdstrand> hey now
<jdstrand> :)
<pitti> but it's by and large sponsoring, the bug even has patches for both already
<kees> pitti: I think it's best for 1 person to do the changes, regardless of package. can you take both?
<jdstrand> if the bug has everything in it, and the vote passed, I can do it now
<pitti> kees: can do, I just don't know much about testing ntpd
<jdstrand> as it happens, I am patch piloting as we speak
<kees> pitti: delegating to jdstrand works too :)
<mdz> patch pilot!
<pitti> jdstrand: I'll leave ntp to you then, and take g-s-t
<jdstrand> ack
<kees> [action] pitti to update g-s-t for new ntp pool
<MootBot> ACTION received:  pitti to update g-s-t for new ntp pool
<kees> [action] jdstrand to update ntp for new ntp pool
<MootBot> ACTION received:  jdstrand to update ntp for new ntp pool
<kees> jdstrand: to catch you up slightly, be sure that the to-be-sponsored ntp debdiff includes ntp.ubuntu.com as the final fall-back too.
<jdstrand> ok
<kees> okay, that topic is done...
<kees> jdstrand: thanks!
<kees> [topic] the mailing list archive for anything we missed
<MootBot> New Topic:  the mailing list archive for anything we missed
<jdstrand> sure :)
<kees> I don't see anything from the mailing list. does anyone else see anything?
<mdz> looking
<mdz> is this utf8 thing resolved?
<mdz> bug 666565
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 666565 in Ubuntu Translations ""utf8" charmap in locale name is wrong" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/666565
<mdz> looks clear apart from that
<kees> it doesn't seem like the TB needs to be involved in that bug?
<mdz> can we unsub then?
<kees> done
<kees> [topic] Check up on community bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  Check up on community bugs
<kees> I see this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bug/374900
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 374900 in faac (Ubuntu) "Libfaac not LGPL" [High,Triaged]
<kees> this is from long ago, IIRC.
<cjwatson> I took an action for that at one point, but my head is filled with despair any time I contemplate it
<cjwatson> I hate legal stuff
<kees> hah
<cjwatson> so I don't really know what to do, I could promise to do it but history suggests I may never get to it.  Can I punt?
<mdz> let someone else worry about it for 2 weeks?
<mdz> perhaps someone who isn't here today ;-)
<mdz> looks like someone needs to get in touch with upstream
<kees> we can punt if that's the way to go; it looks pretty clearly like the encoder package need to be removed.
<kees> *needs
<mdz> unless upstream agrees to fix it?
<kees> but I will add it to the agenda for next time and we can move forward.
<cjwatson> sorry
<kees> [topic] other agenda items
<MootBot> New Topic:  other agenda items
<kees> I'd like to bring up moving the TB meeting by an hour or two. Probably 1700UTC would be best for Keybuk, based on his last TB email about his current schedule.
<kees> I would like it moved away from 7am too, but I can usually make it.
<cjwatson> 1700 is fine by me
<mdz> still on tuesdays?
<pitti> conflicts with desktop team meeting, so I'd need to sit in two in parallel
<mdz> I have a tricky-to-move weekly meeting at that time
<mdz> could do that time on mon or wed
<pitti> I could do 1700 on Thu
<cjwatson> I can't do Wed afternoon
<cjwatson> Mon or Thu at that time would be OK
<mdz> pitti, could you do mon?
<cjwatson> (it's right after the 10.04.2/SRU/Natty interlock meeting, but I think that should be OK)
<pitti> we have the SRU/10.04.2 meetings on Monday around that time
<pitti> and after that I usually have dinner and then sports
<pitti> so, while it would be very inconvenient, and I couldn't prepare for it, it'd be technically possible
<pitti> I'd much prefer Thursday, though
<mdz> I could do Thu but only if we go to alternate weeks
<mdz> I have a 2-weekly meeting this week at that time
<mdz> so we would need to change phase
<pitti> phase doesn't matter much for me
<kees> due to DST, the earliest I can do Thu is 1800
<pitti> don't we usually move it an hour earlier during summer anyway?
<kees> pitti: no, we recently tied it to UTC
<mdz> take this to the mailing list maybe? we will need input from the other members as well
<pitti> ah
<kees> mdz: yeah, good idea.
<pitti> 1800 UTC would be 2000 local in summer
<kees> [action] kees - bring up TB rescheduling on mailing list
<MootBot> ACTION received:  kees - bring up TB rescheduling on mailing list
<pitti> set up a doodle?
<kees> yeah
<kees> okay, any other topics?
<bdmurray> I filed that bug asked about earlier
<kees> I'll leave Keybuk as chair for next time
<bdmurray> its bug 703002
<kees> bdmurray: ah, excellent. that was my memory too; do you have the bug # handy?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 703002 in Launchpad itself "distributions have no +configure-bugtracker link" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/703002
<kees> excellent, thanks
<mdz> kees, I think it's sabdfl's turn to chair
<kees> mdz: oh, okay. it's been Keybuk's the last two, IIRC.
<kees> anyway, sure, sabdfl it is.
<kees> okay, that's a wrap then.
<kees> thanks everyone!
<pitti> thanks everyone
<kees> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:48.
<kirkland> o/
<zul> hi
<smoser> o/
<RoAkSoAx> \o/
<robbiew> o/
<ttx> \o
<JamesPage> o/
<Daviey> o/
<soren> _o_
<JamesPage> ttx: feeling better?
<ttx> JamesPage: slightly. I'm taking forever to recover
 * smb \o
<Daviey> ttx, :(
<ttx> JamesPage, Daviey: how was FOSDEM ?
<Daviey> ttx, good... tiring .. good... you were missed.
<ttx> Daviey: not enough free beer ?
<JamesPage> ttx: not much free beer :-(
<SpamapS> o/
<Daviey> ttx, maybe too much \;-0
<JamesPage> shall we get started?
<robbiew> yes
<JamesPage> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:01. The chair is JamesPage.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<JamesPage> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<JamesPage> So there where no actions from last weeks meeting....
<SpamapS> \o/
<Daviey> yuppie
<JamesPage> [TOPIC] Natty Development
<MootBot> New Topic:  Natty Development
<JamesPage> Hows Alpha 2?
<SpamapS> should we be iso testing
<SpamapS> ?
<Daviey> not a good story for eucalyptus atm
<JamesPage> still FTBFS?
<Daviey> think i solved that
<Daviey> but ftbfs in archive
<Daviey> and some dhcpd issues
<zul> sounds like fun
<Daviey> :/
<Daviey> Regarding ISO testing... has everyone at least try  installing A2?
<JamesPage> fixable?
 * robbiew needs to summarize A2 and put up the plan for A3 this week
<Daviey> JamesPage, yeah.. will be fixed this week..
<JamesPage> Not yet: the daily ISO testing looks OK at the moment (http://hudson.qa.ubuntu-uk.org/)
<smoser> i somewhat plan on installing A2 today on netbook.
 * Daviey needs to talk to upstream
<JamesPage> So back to SpamapS original question - should we be ISO testing or do we need todo that closer to A3?
<Daviey> Generally A2 hasn't shown any kitten killers for me
<Daviey> (except euca)
<SpamapS> virt-manager is quite broken right now in natty.. so that makes iso testing a little more of a pain for me. :-P
<zul> JamesPage: yes we should
<RoAkSoAx> SpamapS: TestDrive?
 * SpamapS could do virtualbox I suppose
<RoAkSoAx> :P
<SpamapS> RoAkSoAx: I'll look into it
<Daviey> Those with real hardware available... is pretty useful to use compared to pure virtualised
<zul> *cough* vmware *cough* ;)
<Daviey> i've seen some nasty kernel bugs on my desktop install... and waiting for some serverish ones to hurt.
<JamesPage> Sounds like thats a specific action for this week
<Daviey> +1
 * SpamapS 's only real hardware available is an old apple G5
<smoser> you do know that A2 shipped, right ?
<smoser> its kind of late to worry about dead kittens
<robbiew> no kidding
<robbiew> time to bury those and move on
<JamesPage> [ACTION] ALL:  ISO testing (including as much real hardware as possible) to smooth the way to A3!
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ALL:  ISO testing (including as much real hardware as possible) to smooth the way to A3!
<SpamapS> in maverick we were getting hounded to do ISO tests.. this time I've heard nothing about iso testing. Just wondering if and when we should do iso tests. :-P
<Daviey> yeah.. but we need to start hammering it to find the kittens... not save them :)
<ttx> SpamapS: I wonder who did the hounding
<RoAkSoAx> lol
<robbiew> what does hggdh do?
<SpamapS> ttx: some uppity frenchman
<ttx> SpamapS: the worst kind
<Daviey> ttx, you have been missed
<JamesPage> Anything else for Natty dev at this point in time?
<robbiew> seriously...if you are on the server team and you have to be hounded to test your own iso at milestone...that's a bit concerning
<Daviey> i don't think hggdh has been able to test work loads... just installation.
<zul> well installations was the only thing that was tested for the longest time
<hggdh> on UEC? (sorry)
<ttx> robbiew: +1. Even with a professional hounder, Hounding is no fun
<Daviey> hggdh, generally.
<robbiew> right
<Daviey> hounding != co-ordination
<hggdh> we are still prepping some automated tests -- based on LTP, and others
<hggdh> and, on Hudson (or Jenkins) we are running pretty much all of trhe ISO tests
<RoAkSoAx> hggdh: what about the powernap issue?
<Daviey> hggdh, maybe not now... but could you and JamesPage give us some deeper insight at some point?
<SpamapS> robbiew: well the cloud doesn't use iso's ;)
<hggdh> Daviey: certainly
<Daviey> rocking
<hggdh> RoAkSoAx: I am starting to think the issue is not with powernap, but with euca itseld
<zul> SpamapS: yeah but the cloud tests are pretty extensive compared to the installation/work load tests
<RoAkSoAx> hggdh: ok ;)
<hggdh> SpamapS: actually we usually start the cloud (read euca, right now) tests with a preseeded ISO install
<soren> SpamapS: Yet..
<robbiew> SpamapS: right, but it uses images...and it's ourproduct
<robbiew> I'm saying, it should be a high priority the week of the milestone, to test the images we put out...iso or cloud
<Daviey> soren, you are just trying to create more work for us! :)
<soren> Daviey: Quite the contrary.
<soren> Daviey: The biggest problem I had with automated iso testing was lack of resources.
<soren> Computing resources, that is.
<Daviey> ack
<hggdh> double-ack
<soren> If I could get a cloud to run the ISO for me, hooking up VNC to a screen scraping thing would be relatively easy.
<SpamapS> Alright.. so the signal to iso test should be... the alpha freezes?
<ttx> SpamapS: it's actually the candidate generation
<hggdh> I do not agree
<hggdh> we should run them daily
<ttx> SpamapS: otherwise you don't have a page to record results on iso.qa.u.c
<Daviey> hggdh, i think we are talking manual
<SpamapS> yes, talking about manual testing
<Daviey> in my mind.. automated complements manual
<SpamapS> ttx: right, I don't get any emails when that happens.
<Daviey> I imagine most people tried the candidate iso before release, right?
<SpamapS> despite being subscribed to all the iso tests I usually do
<robbiew> SpamapS: but you get the freeze notice right?
<SpamapS> robbiew: yes
<Daviey> SpamapS, that is a good point... the current way of tracking the candidates is via  watching -release...and that is a process which is broken
<robbiew> hmm
<robbiew> skaet: around?
 * SpamapS gives in and just subscribes to every list on lists.ubuntu.com
<robbiew> so I can see about getting an email notification sent out when the isos are ready to test
<Daviey> SpamapS, that isn't enough :)
<JamesPage> So what do we need in terms of notifications?
<Daviey> Subject: Candidate posted
<Daviey> Subject: Re-rolled... because XYZ.
<smoser> I really dont think its that hard.
<hggdh> where? which list?
<smoser> The week of a release, you need to be testing
<smoser> we need to get through all the tests on iso tracker
<smoser> you really should not need a reminder for release week
<Daviey> smoser, last cycle i wasted time testing a stale candidate..
<robbiew> ack
<SpamapS> well how do people know they've appeared now?
<Daviey> this needs better co-ordination.
<robbiew> #ubuntu-release
<robbiew> it's a great channel
<robbiew> I highly recommend it during the release
<robbiew> lol
<Daviey> heh
<SpamapS> smoser: This is the first I've heard of this. The maverick cycle, a little man would pop up in my IRC window and say "test the isos now" ...
<robbiew> I'll take a todo on getting a notification sent out
<Daviey> reading scrollback seems to be a less clean process IMO.
<JamesPage> [ACTION] robbiew to ensure notifications of release candidates (and re-rolls) sent out
<MootBot> ACTION received:  robbiew to ensure notifications of release candidates (and re-rolls) sent out
<JamesPage> OK so is the combination of watching #ubuntu-release and some extra notifications going todo the trick?
<robbiew> it better
<SpamapS> Apologies for being naive above it. I just want to know when I should start focusing on testing the iso vs. other things.
<robbiew> we do have schedule
<robbiew> it's not like the release should creep up on anyone by surprise ;)
<robbiew> SpamapS understood, and I think you raise a good pointr
<robbiew> point
 * JamesPage agrees with SpamapS
<robbiew> the release team should at least fire off a notice when ISOs are good to test
<zul> you should have it the back of your mind that we are releasing on this date and see what needs to be done
 * kirkland wonders if Ubuntu should have a desktop indicator for that sort of thing ;-)
<ttx> what we did during maverick is have a "release contact" in the team (was me) whose job it was to remind people to switch to ISO testing (and talked about it in weekly meetings). A bit inefficient, but worked
<SpamapS> zul: +1 for that.. I have just now added iso testing to my calendar in line with the release calendar.
<kirkland> perhaps TestDrive could provide one
<Daviey> kirkland, byobu indicator!
<kirkland> if you have TestDrive installed, it puts a message in the indicator
<hggdh> +1
<RoAkSoAx> yeah we could do that
<JamesPage> I think we are missing the point of this meeting - surely we should be discussing activity over the next week in the 'Natty development' section?
<kirkland> A1/A2/A3/B1/RC/GA Candidate Available
<SpamapS> Hah.. and of course.. the week before Alpha 3 is the ensemble sprint. :P
<Daviey> ttx, I had an advantage of seeing what was going on by being on the same TZ as you... i think that helped me.
<SpamapS> JamesPage: true.. I think zul had something he wanted to bring up regarding Natty development.
<zul> i thought that was the next topic
<zul> if we are done with natty release stuff
<JamesPage> zul: as our rep in the release meeting can you highlight any key activities over the next week just in case its slipped someones mind?
<SpamapS> Indeed.. though before that was "events" ..which seems to have been wiped away.
<zul> JamesPage: i think i can do that
<JamesPage> zul: excellent - I'll make is standing agenda
<JamesPage> OK so moving on.
<robbiew> kirkland: +1 on the testdrive idea
<JamesPage> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Server Team Events
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Server Team Events
<Daviey> JamesPage and I had a good weekend at foSdem ... report to follow
<SpamapS> I added this last week..
<SpamapS> just to highlight when and where Ubuntu Server interested people will be.
<JamesPage> SpamapS: I'll copy in the forward plan from last weeks agenda - we can just update as and when.
<ttx> I'll be at UKUUG Spring Conference in Leeds in March, talking OpenStack (and Ubuntu Server)
<SpamapS> well its ok.. just wanted to mention that Dustin and I will be at SCALE9x Feb 25 .. and Dustin is speaking I think on Feb 26
<JamesPage> Scale9x at the end of the month - ClintByrum (SpamapS) and DustinKirkland (kirkland) attending
<kirkland> SpamapS: JamesPage: yup!
<JamesPage> ttx: I'll add that to the list
<ttx> JamesPage: cool!
<JamesPage> Anything else for events?
<SpamapS> kirkland: unfortunately I have to leave Fri night but I'll be there all day Friday.
<JamesPage> [TOPIC] Mysql 5.5 for Natty (zul)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Mysql 5.5 for Natty (zul)
<JamesPage> over to you zul
<zul> hi yeah...
<Daviey> :0
<zul> i wanted to throw out the idea of pushing mysql 5.5 to natty
<SpamapS> +1 from me
<zul> as a replacement for mysql 5.1
<SpamapS> its faster
<SpamapS> and the GA release
<SpamapS> and does not introduce any significant incompatible changes w/ 5.1
<zul> amazon is using it for their images
<JamesPage> How long has the GA been about?
<zul> but there might be some changes with libmysqlclient we might have to worry about
<SpamapS> since early December
<SpamapS> zul: the license changes seem to have been accidental
<Daviey> it makes sense for natty to have the latest
<SpamapS> zul: and actually happened in 5.1
<JamesPage> any point releases since then?
<zul> SpamapS: im talking about rebulding things like php open office etc etc
<SpamapS> JamesPage: no. I know what you're thinking.. in the past mysql's first GA was bad.. but 5.1 and 5.5's first GA's seem to have fixed that problem with wider testing.
<SpamapS> zul: oh, AFAICT, libmysqlclient did not change ABI or API
<zul> SpamapS: sure but we are going to have to test it first ;)
<SpamapS> And IMO its ok to have the client libs coming from 5.1
<zul> so thoughts?
 * Daviey suggests "do it"
<Daviey> if there are serious concerns... PPA it and we can sniff test
<zul> also ill mention that debian will probably be going to 5.5 as well (a feeling)
<Daviey> post to ubuntu-devel suggesting people test from Desktop apps etc.
<SpamapS> https://launchpad.net/~clint-fewbar/+archive/fixes has the initial packages
<zul> Daviey: ack
<JamesPage> Is this someone we can decide in this meeting or does it need discussion on ubuntu-devel?
<zul> and they have been reviewed by the debian mysql maintainer
<zul> i think it needs more discussion in ubuntu-devel because there is alot of packages that need libmysqlclient
<SpamapS> right now, the mysql-5.5 packages I did don't even build libmysqlclient
<JamesPage> OK so it feel like the consensus here is to go for it; but it needs broader discussion prior to committing in Natty
<Daviey> yup.
<JamesPage> We are only a few weeks off feature freeze so this needs to happen quite quickly
<JamesPage> zul: you OK for an action to email ubuntu-devel asap?
<SpamapS> yeah seems useful to just send to ubuntu-devel to get ack/nack's from interested parties
<zul> JamesPage: yep
<Daviey> once the version is in... we can ignore feature freeze, as it will be bug fixes :)
<JamesPage> [ACTION] zul - Email ubuntu-devel to gather consensus on whether MySQL 5.5 should be included for Natty.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  zul - Email ubuntu-devel to gather consensus on whether MySQL 5.5 should be included for Natty.
<JamesPage> next....
<JamesPage> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<JamesPage> hggdh: all yours
<hggdh> OK. We are behind on UEC (known, buyt anyway); ISO testing on Hudson seens to be OK now, wioth the two servers I dedicated to it
<hggdh> and with James' change to run multiple jobs
<Daviey> hggdh, ahh..  i still need to update my hudson cnode.
<hggdh> but I felt sort of alone on this testing...
<JamesPage> hggdh: is that why each test it taking longer to run now?
<hggdh> JamesPage: probably, contention on I/O, I would say. Also, I am still to hadd a check for a critical error on d-i
<hggdh> Sunday and Monday we spent 40 min waiting for the timeout to pop on a d-i error on the first 5 min
<zul> hggdh: we you able to reproduce that samba bug you were telling me about?
<hggdh> zul: on the Hudson test -- I figured it out, we need to manually logon the first time as an user for the smb userId to be generated
<zul> hggdh: right
<hggdh> so _this_ test will have to be changed
<hggdh> also, I need a position on how large should be the minimal install
<JamesPage> hggdh: its grown since the last release....
<hggdh> yes. To what? ;-)
<Daviey> hggdh, 4 GB sparse?
<Daviey> heck 100GB sparse? :)
<hggdh> Daviey: no, the JeOS install (f4 on d-i, minimal Ubuntu system
<Daviey> oh
<JamesPage> hggdh: I think the original test was 550MB - I allowed +25MB for the testing overlay and its over that as well at the moment.
<hggdh> JamesPage: yes. But I remember seeing 500M, not 550M
<hggdh> (not on the test, in the QA docs)
<JamesPage> You might be right; lets take this offline and double check
<hggdh> roj
<hggdh> and I am done
<JamesPage> [ACTION] hggdh JamesPage to check sizing for minimal installation for QA purposes
<MootBot> ACTION received:  hggdh JamesPage to check sizing for minimal installation for QA purposes
<JamesPage> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team (sommer)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team (sommer)
<JamesPage> sommer: here this week?
<SpamapS> I emailed sommer..
<SpamapS> he's super busy with the new job
<SpamapS> and sent apologies if he wasn't able to make it
<Daviey> yeah.. i don't think things will change,.... had the same experience a few weeks ago.
<SpamapS> Promises to work on the server guide again soon... and said he would appreciate help with some of the bugs already reported on it.
<Daviey> We might need to refine  how we are tracking docs
<Daviey> I've done no docs for natty yet.
<Daviey> has anyone else?
<SpamapS> Upstart docs has been a running theme for me.
<robbiew> yeah...I think we need a hard push for updated docs at UDS
<SpamapS> But they're not done in any official capacity yet.. I've saved a lot of that work for A3 and beta.
<robbiew> at least by 12.04LTS
 * robbiew needs to get folks excited about it...if that's even possible :/
<JamesPage> It's not a key focus for this cycle then?
<robbiew> yay for docs!
<robbiew> lol
<robbiew> well...we should have it every cycle
<robbiew> but given the LTS is where we see most of our use
<RoAkSoAx> I'm gonna write Clustering docs post alpha3
<hallyn> hm, i'd assumed they were 'taken care of', so i'll go ahead and take a look
<SpamapS> sommer's been taking such good care of us we haven't had to do much.
<hallyn> @sommer++ for babying us
<robbiew> right...but we should be making sure it's correct
<robbiew> as we change things...and he may not catch it
<Daviey> yup
 * JamesPage realises that he's missed the kernel team out this week.
<Daviey> poor kernel team
 * smb was already thinking he missed it
<JamesPage> so moving on from docs for this week.
<JamesPage> [TOPIC
<JamesPage> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<JamesPage> smb: over to you
<smb> Just wanted to bring up two things I am on
<smb>  * Continue to work through the SUSE Xen patchset and backport changes that
<smb>    came through upstream stable but missed Xen clones of files (Lucid-ec2).
<smb>    Done in the hope to get a fix for bug 708920 in the process. For the future
<smb>    I need to think of how to prevent that skew in the first place.
<smb>  * For bug 709414: check testcase with Natty client to see whether the result
<smb>    is still the same. Both Lucid and Natty do unstable writes followed
<smb>    immediately with a commit request which syncs. So it seems to be sync but
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 708920 in linux-ec2 (Ubuntu) "Strange 'fork/clone' blocking behavior under high cpu usage on EC2" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/708920
<ubottu> Bug 709414 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/709414 is private
<smb>    not very efficiently. Opened an upstream bug to see what those guys think.
<smb> Otherwise open to questions.
<robbiew> smb: so I thought it worked in Natty, but not in Lucid (regarding the NFS bug)
<smb> robbiew, Well to me it looked identical
<robbiew> smb: right, surbhi said the same thing, but I believe in actual testing, the behaviour is different....but I could be wrong
<smb> At least when I looked at the output doing test with a lucid and natty client
<robbiew> ah
<robbiew> I'll yield to you for sure ;)
<smoser> smb, mostly out of curiousity, i'd like to have you read bug 710319
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 710319 in apache2 (Ubuntu) "CPU usage is incorrect on server-status page" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/710319
<smb> I think Surbhi said something about a difference probably in the code but I am more practical there
<smoser> it seems that an upstream bug that *should* be fixed (per commits reported to fix it) still exists in lucid.
<smb> smoser, What release is that for
<robbiew> for reference the public bug for 709414 is bug 709392
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 709392 in nfs-utils (Ubuntu Lucid) "NFS client does not submit "nfs_file_sync" write requests when the file open call includes O_SYNC." [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/709392
<smb> I think we may still need a second half for Maverik
<smoser> i have not reproduced on natty but i'm not certain the test case is guaranteed reproduce.
<smoser> there is an easy test case there though, that fails for me on lucid, does not fail on natty.
<smoser> (but they're 2 different systems i'm testing on)
<SpamapS> 3 minutes
<smb> smoser, Actually Lucid may also yield wrong load output
<smb> That would be fixed in Natty
<JamesPage> SpamapS: noted
<JamesPage> Anything else for smb?
<smb> smoser, I think I have done either test kernels or at least prepared them for lucid but lacking a reporducer/reporter did not continue
<JamesPage> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Ubuntu Community Team (kim0)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Ubuntu Community Team (kim0)
<smoser> we can talk offline, smb, but for me, on lucid, the test case pointed to fails.  ie, time can go backwards for utime.
<JamesPage> kim0: anything from the community team this week?
<smoser> (and others verify that)
<smb> smoser, Yep lets take this offline
 * Daviey wonders if kim0 has internet access this week
<ttx> Question for community or team: on https://launchpad.net/sprints/uds-o UDS is marked as starting Monday afternoon and ending Friday noon. Is that the plan ?
<Daviey> ttx, i suspect it's a TZ mistake
<bjf> JamesPage, your running late
<ttx> Daviey: it's more than a TZ mistake. It makes it 4 days total
<Daviey> jcastro, ?
<Daviey> ttx, 00:00 vs 12:00?
<JamesPage> [TOPIC] Announce next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
<JamesPage> Tuesday, February 15 2011 16:00 UTC
<jcastro> timezone problem, I'll fix it, sorry guys
<Daviey> ttx, if jcastro doesn't respond.. i'll find out and get back to you.
<ttx> jcastro: cool, thanks
<maco> Daviey: he just did
<JamesPage> bjf: all yours....
<Daviey> heh
<JamesPage> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:02.
<bjf> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:02. The chair is bjf.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<SpamapS> JamesPage: good meeting! thanks!
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<bjf> # Meeting Etiquate
<bjf> #
<bjf> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<bjf> #
<bjf> [TOPIC] ARM Status (bjf)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Status (bjf)
<bjf> Nothing new, do we have ARM folks anymore ?
<bjf> ..
<sconklin> snort
<bjf> [TOPIC] Release Metrics (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Release Metrics (JFo)
<JFo> Release Meeting Bugs (9 bugs, 12 Blueprints)
<JFo> ==== Alpha 3 Milestoned Bugs (61 across all packages (up 42)) ====
<JFo>  * 2 linux kernel bugs (up 1)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-ti-omap bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-meta-ti-omap bug (no change)
<JFo> ==== Release Targeted Bugs (249 across all packages (up 44)) ====
<JFo>  * 21 linux kernel bugs (up 4)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-ti-omap bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-meta-ti-omap bug (no change)
<JFo> ==== Milestoned Features ====
<JFo>  * 7 blueprints (Including HWE Blueprints)
<JFo> ==== Maverick Updates Bugs ====
<JFo>  * 55 Linux Bugs (no change)
<JFo> ==== Lucid Updates Bugs ====
<JFo>  * 91 Linux Bugs (no change)
<JFo> ==== Bugs with Patches Attached:102 (up 8) ====
<JFo>  * [[https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.has_patch=on | Bugs with Patches]]
<JFo>  * [[http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/csv-stats/bugs-with-patches/linux/ | Breakdown by status]]
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: Natty Bug Handling (JFo)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardware-kernel-n-bug-handling
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: Natty Bug Handling (JFo)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardware-kernel-n-bug-handling
<JFo> * found a logic error (what I believe to be one at least) in the process-new arsenal script.
<JFo> Working to nail down the behavior in that script so that it can be addressed.
<JFo> * I am cleaning up my notes about kernel testing and should have updates to the wiki documentation done this week.
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: Enhancements to the firmware test suite (cking)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardware-kernel-n-firmware-test-suite-enhancements
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: Enhancements to the firmware test suite (cking)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardware-kernel-n-firmware-test-suite-enhancements
<cking> Changes to fwts (natty development branch):
<cking>  * add oops checker
<cking>  * fix double free in dmar test
<cking>  * improving option handling
<cking> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: Review of the Stable Maintenance Process (sconklin / bjf)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardware-kernel-n-stable-process-review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: Review of the Stable Maintenance Process (sconklin / bjf)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardware-kernel-n-stable-process-review
<sconklin> || The kernel Stable team has had kernels in -proposed for almost
<sconklin> || a week, and a number of the associated fixes have been verified.
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> || Due to the alpha release of Natty and the .2 release of Lucid
<sconklin> || and the demand on certification and QA resources, there is
<sconklin> || time for us to spin another release and put it in -proposed.
<sconklin> || Fixes verified already in the current -proposed kernel will
<sconklin> || remain verified, and any new fixes will require verification.
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> || We expect to produce those kernels this week.
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> || The process continues to get refined as we go through new
<sconklin> || cycles. We have taken responsibility for updating the
<sconklin> || verification tags on bugs and are changing our tools to
<sconklin> || deal with that. We also are developing internal tools to
<sconklin> || help track package versions and alert us to errors such
<sconklin> || as not having an updated meta package when an ABI bump
<sconklin> || has occurred.
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Cert. Team  (ara)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Cert. Team  (ara)
<ara> Nothing to report on SRUs. We won't be testing -proposed kernels this week or the following one.
<ara> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Ecryptfs (jj)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Ecryptfs (jj)
<jjohansen> - second revision with cleanups and bug fixes pushed to ecryptfs mailing list
<jjohansen> - revising description text with kirklands feedback for fsdevel submit
<jjohansen> - tyhicks has been busy and unable to review, is planning to review today
<jjohansen> - may alter shortname generation to use directory ino pending discussion
<jjohansen> - may convert from trusted to user. xattr namespace pending discussion
<jjohansen> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Natty (apw)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Natty (apw)
<apw> The natty-alpha-2 kernel seems to be holding up ok.  Since the freeze lifted we have uploaded v2.6.38-2.29 (v2.6.38-rc3) based kernel.  This has brought another swathe of DRM fixes, though things are still iffy there.  v2.6.38-rc4 has just released and will be uploaded shortly.
<apw> Overall we are looking good on longer term tasks with most of the key deliverables complete.  We are now tracking mainline and fielding issues as they appear.
<apw> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Maverick/Lucid/Karmic/Hardy/Dapper (sconklin / bjf)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Maverick/Lucid/Karmic/Hardy/Dapper (sconklin / bjf)
<sconklin> || Package                                    || Kernel PPA          || Proposed             || Upd/Sec              ||  TiP || Verified ||
<sconklin> ||                                            ||                     ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || dapper   linux-source-2.6.15               || 2.6.15-55.92        ||                      || 2.6.15-55.91         ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta                        ||                     ||                      || 2.6.15.56            ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-backports-modules-2.6       ||                     ||                      || 2.6.15-55.13         ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> ||                                            ||                     ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || hardy    linux                             || 2.6.24-28.85        || 2.6.24-28.84         || 2.6.24-28.81         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta                        ||                     ||                      || 2.6.24.28.30         ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-restricted-modules-2.6.24   ||                     ||                      || 2.6.24.18-28.7       ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.24       ||                     ||                      || 2.6.24-28.47         ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> ||                                            ||                     ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || karmic   linux                             || 2.6.31-22.72        || 2.6.31-22.71         || 2.6.31-22.70         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta                        ||                     ||                      || 2.6.31.22.35         ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-ports-meta                  ||                     ||                      || 2.6.31.22.18         ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-backports-modules-2.6.31    ||                     ||                      || 2.6.31-22.24         ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-ec2                         || 2.6.31-307.25       || 2.6.31-307.24        || 2.6.31-307.23        ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta-ec2                    ||                     ||                      || 2.6.31.307.6         ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-fsl-imx51                   || 2.6.31-112.30       ||                      || 2.6.31-112.28        ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta-fsl-imx51              ||                     ||                      || 2.6.31.112.10        ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-mvl-dove                    ||                     ||                      || 2.6.31-214.32        ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta-mvl-dove               ||                     ||                      || 2.6.31.214.13        ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> ||                                            ||                     ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || lucid    linux                             || 2.6.32-29.57        || 2.6.32-29.57         || 2.6.32-28.55         ||    6 ||        1 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-backports-modules-2.6.32    || 2.6.32-29.28        || 2.6.32-29.28         || 2.6.32-28.27         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta                        || 2.6.32.29.34        || 2.6.32.29.34         || 2.6.32.28.32         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-ec2                         || 2.6.32-313.25       || 2.6.32-313.25        || 2.6.32-312.24        ||    8 ||        1 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta-ec2                    || 2.6.32.313.14       || 2.6.32.313.14        || 2.6.32.312.13        ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-ports-meta                  || 2.6.32.29.22        || 2.6.32.29.22         || 2.6.32.28.21         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-lts-backport-maverick       || 2.6.35-25.44~lucid1 || 2.6.35-25.44~lucid1  || 2.6.35-23.41~lucid1  ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta-lts-backport-maverick  ||                     ||                      || 2.6.35.23.35         ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-fsl-imx51                   || 2.6.31-608.22       ||                      || 2.6.31-608.20        ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-mvl-dove                    || 2.6.32-214.30       || 2.6.32-214.30        || 2.6.32-211.27        ||    6 ||        1 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta-mvl-dove               || 2.6.32-214.15       || 2.6.32.214.15        || 2.6.32.209.12        ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> ||                                            ||                     ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || maverick linux                             || 2.6.35-26.46        || 2.6.35-26.46         || 2.6.35-25.44         ||    9 ||        9 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-backports-modules-2.6.35    || 2.6.35-26.17        ||                      || 2.6.35-25.16         ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta                        || 2.6.35.26.33        || 2.6.35.26.33         || 2.6.35.25.32         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-ports-meta                  || 2.6.35.26.20        || 2.6.35.26.20         || 2.6.35.25.19         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-mvl-dove                    ||                     || 2.6.32-414.30        ||                      ||    3 ||        3 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta-mvl-dove               ||                     || 2.6.32.414.4         ||                      ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-ti-omap4                    ||                     ||                      || 2.6.35-903.14        ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta-ti-omap4               ||                     ||                      || 2.6.35-903.6         ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> ||                                            ||                     ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || Package                                    || Kernel PPA          || Proposed             || Upd/Sec              ||  TiP || Verified ||
<sconklin> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<JFo> Incoming Bugs
<JFo>  149 Natty Bugs (up 41)
<JFo>  1141 Maverick Bugs (up 8)
<JFo>  1005 Lucid Bugs (up 8)
<JFo> Current regression stats (broken down by release):
<JFo> ==== regression-update ====
<JFo>   * 35 maverick bugs (up 3)
<JFo>   * 75 lucid bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 6 karmic bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 0 hardy bugs (no change)
<JFo> ==== regression-release ====
<JFo>   * 220 maverick bugs (down 1)
<JFo>   * 206 lucid bugs (up 2)
<JFo>   * 38 karmic bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 2 hardy bugs (no change)
<JFo> ==== regression-proposed ====
<JFo>   * 14 maverick bugs (down 1)
<JFo>   * 2 lucid bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 1 karmic bug (no change)
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<JFo> The  next bug day will be next Tuesday. It will once again cover bugs in the new state.
<JFo> I'll put some more information out on what I am interested in solving within these set
<JFo> of bugs once I have determined why the process-new script is failing.
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Triage Status (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Triage Status (JFo)
<JFo> still quite a lot of direct requests to review specific bugs. There are a few people in the community helping out, so that is picking up a bit.
<JFo> nothing other than that unless someone else has anything.
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<bjf> thanks everyone
<bjf> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:14.
<JFo> thanks bjf
<sconklin> thanks
<sforshee> thanks bjf
<vish> !away > artir
<ubottu> artir, please see my private message
<duanedesign> 'lo all
<PabloRubianes> hi
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-02-09
<collinp> I'M NOT LATE.
<duanedesign> me too :)
<phillw> made it with seconds to spare :)
<collinp> Oh yes.
<UndiFineD> o/
<jledbetter> Howdy
<duanedesign> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 18:01. The chair is duanedesign.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<duanedesign> hello everyone and thank you for coming
<duanedesign> it is awesome to have so many new people joining the team
<duanedesign> our mentee seeking mentor list is kinda long
<phillw> I'm kidnapping them as fast I can :P
<UndiFineD> funny how it turned out exactly as i predicted in august duanedesign
<duanedesign> however I notice some of those folks I have never seen in the channel
 * jledbetter goes to look at it.
<UndiFineD> or was it oktober ... time flies
<duanedesign> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Membership
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Membership
<duanedesign> is there anyone here who has not yet been  paired up with antone?
<duanedesign> anyone*
<hakimsheriff2> Sorry im late
<phillw> duanedesign: as people on the mentor list are recommended by their TL's, it is a difficult problem. Do we turn them away are welcome them?
<duanedesign> or should that be paired up with someone...:P
<collinp> hakimsheriff: No problem. I was -almost- late myself.
<jledbetter> Paired up as in 'seeking master'? Right?
<phillw> /sare/or
<duanedesign> jledbetter: yes a master or mentor
<duanedesign> phillw: what is TL?
<collinp> Team Leader?
<phillw> Team Leader, as per the email sent out.
 * jledbetter isn't a mentor or master but has no available time at the moment, unfortunately.
<duanedesign> jledbetter: ok, thank you for beiing honest
<collinp> I was here before the team was even called what it is now. I guess that classifies as enough experience :P
<collinp> Sadly, I have no time either.
<jledbetter> That's how I roll :) Maybe next month.
<hakimsheriff2> I am not a full member yet so I cant
<duanedesign> hakimsheriff2:  do you have a Beginners Team member sho is helping you out?
<hakimsheriff2> Mohi is.my mentor
<duanedesign> each prospective member should have someone who is helping them join the team and.or joining a team in the community
<duanedesign> hakimsheriff2: oh great
<duanedesign> he has been a little ill lately. he will be back soon
<hakimsheriff2> Thats why I didnt see him
<jledbetter> Is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Mentors up to date? Those the only approved masters/mentors?
<duanedesign> lets keep an eye out for the people on the mentee list and see who stops by the channel
<MrChrisDruif> No member either....even if I was, wouldn't have much time :)
<UndiFineD> MrChrisDruif: you are doing great :)
<phillw> hakimsheriff if you need a bit of extra help, I'm sure that pedro would assist you, those two guys work very closely together.
<duanedesign> yes mohi has chicken pox :( I think he is on the mends though
<hakimsheriff2> Help in what exactly?
<collinp> Remember that Ubuntu is purely volunteer work, you contribute only if you have the time for it, so there's no pressure if you can't due to other obligations.
<phillw> hakimsheriff in any area.
<duanedesign> hakimsheriff2:  anything UBuntu or BT related
<hakimsheriff2> Mohi helps me getting involved
<duanedesign> collinp: so true. We want this to be fun
<hakimsheriff2> It is fun!
<jledbetter> fun +1
<MrChrisDruif> Suggestion: discuss this after the meeting? O:-)
<hakimsheriff2> Sure
<pedro3005> fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuun
<duanedesign> also all the members of the team are your mentors. Everyone gets someone assigned to them to be a designated contact, but dont be afrais to ask anyone on the team a question
<duanedesign> pedro3005: lol
<hakimsheriff2> Btw.... My normal nick doesnt hav a 2 in it
<duanedesign> jledbetter: yes that is the list
<duanedesign> ehich is a good transition into next topic
<jledbetter> :)
<duanedesign> [TOPIC] more mentors
<MootBot> New Topic:  more mentors
<duanedesign> ok, we put into place some new requirements to be a mento.
<duanedesign> mentor
<collinp> Welcome seidos.
<duanedesign> basically the community at large wanted some reassurance that our mentors knew their stuff
<seidos> gracias collinp
<jledbetter> Have to be a Master to be Mentor, right?
<duanedesign> if the bug guys or the doc guys are going to send mentees to us they want to make sure we are assigning knowledgable mentors
<duanedesign> jledbetter: yes, I think all members are masters
<jledbetter> Great.
<phillw> duanedesign: there was only one way I could get Manuela happy as a mentor, as she does not fit into any of the main 4 groups, but Accessibility is a vital part of ubuntu. So I put her htere.
<phillw> *there*
<duanedesign> that makes sense
<duanedesign> phillw: we want to start an accessebility FG eventually
<duanedesign> so I see no problem with that
<jledbetter> That'd be nice.
<duanedesign> If you all saw my email earlier today it outlined breifly the requirments to be a mentor
<duanedesign> bug fg mentor should be a member of Bug Control
<duanedesign> doc FG, doc contributors or wiki admin
<phillw> as the TL for speechcontrol and dragging a dormant project back to life, she has done outstanding work.
<UndiFineD> I talked with cprofitt on a accessibility FG , he said it would fit in with devs and support
<duanedesign> support fg, is based on contributions since their is no community team counterpart
<duanedesign> Development FG you should be a Contributing Developers, per-package uploaders, MOTU or Core Developers.
<seidos> is there a particular focus group considered to have the most need right now?
<duanedesign> hhmmm, good question
<MrChrisDruif> Accessibility, as it's a young fg?
<duanedesign> ill think about that
<duanedesign> i want to encourage all members to be mentors
<phillw> seidos: they all need help, but having missed the 10.10 docs, if you are familar with wiki and docs, that team needs a bit of help.
<UndiFineD> if an accessibility FG would be created, the people with interest are recommended to be forwarded to #ubuntu-accessibility
<seidos> phillw: i have done a bit of wiki
<seidos> i was going to say bugs, but you kind of need to know dev to fix code, unless bugs need triaging
<duanedesign> If you are already a member of one of the community teams I mentioned, or you feel like you have enough support under your belt please let me or cprofitt know
<duanedesign> so we can add you to othe mentor list
<jledbetter> Will do
<duanedesign> I also wanted to ask if anyone thinks there are any good ideas for encouraging/helping each other join these teams so we can increase the number of mentors
<hajour> i was not on the list but i been made mentor not long ago
<phillw> duanedesign: the creation of an accessibility FG would allow more people to feel comfortable, they need not be a member of just one. There are, for example, some excellent coders on the tram. I'd ask that you check with the council
<phillw> /s/tram/team/
<duanedesign> right now we will probablly do the accessebility FG under another FG until it grows a bit and then we will make an official FG
<UndiFineD> duanedesign: I have a broad interest, so I try know a bit of all
<hakimsheriff2> Good idea
<duanedesign> i think charlie-tca is also very interested in accessebility
<jledbetter> duanedesign, How to get more mentors? Ask? Maybe training too?
<seidos> i dabbled in accessibility
<seidos> i couldn't get orca working
<seidos> not sure what other tools are out there
<duanedesign> jledbetter: i thought maybe some loose knit ggroups that help each other accomplish the requirements for membership in the team of interest
<hajour> i am mentor accessibility duanedesign
<phillw> duanedesign: but it is a bit difficult, as we do teaching web pages, have devs working on projects etc. They just do not know where to 'slot in'
<UndiFineD> seidos: you can ask that in #ubuntu-accessibility
<jledbetter> duanedesign, I can definitely see that being helpful with dev. It's a huge realm.
<collinp> phillw: Accessibility would fit in under the dev FG.
<duanedesign> PabloRubianes: hello
<PabloRubianes> yes
<collinp> Until it gets to a critical mass where it can form it's own FG.
<duanedesign> PabloRubianes: sorry i was tryiing to respond to your PM :P
<UndiFineD> collinp: what is considered critical mass ?
<collinp> Enough to sustain it.
<collinp> Probably 10+ members.
<duanedesign> yes we have had a problem in the past of jumping the gun on FG
<phillw> collinp: speechcontrol itself is well past that :)
<UndiFineD> collinp: I think we reached that already
<duanedesign> where we have focus groups that sound ggreat, we form them and they never quite sustain themselves
<phillw> as we are under the access group, you'd be suprised :)
<hakimsheriff2> I am using a text to speech right now
<duanedesign> UndiFineD: thats great. we can work on that this month and put it on the agenda for next meeting
<collinp> phillw: Consider the fact that the Dev and Wiki FGs are the only ones that have 5+ members in their IRC channels.
<jledbetter> Accessibility helps everyone so it's good that it's a very popular group
<MrChrisDruif> Great hakimsheriff2 :)
<collinp> Right now, at least.
<hajour> we have 40 members on speechcontrol team and we are attached on the accessibility program collinp
<phillw> duanedesign: I know that fully well, but with people like hajour and pen, along with alan bell - that FG would be self sustainable.
<collinp> Speaking of the Dev FG, at the end of the meeting duanedesign, could I make an impromptu announcement?
<duanedesign> collinp: absolutely
<UndiFineD> new members interested in accessibility are requested to join #ubuntu-accessibility
<seidos> UndiFineD: already joined
<phillw> they are also required to sign the CoC
<duanedesign> ok so we need more mentors, so lets encourage each other and do what we can there
<jledbetter> Sounds good
<UndiFineD> well, I think I might be ready for a new padawan soon
<seidos> duanedesign: i can go where i'm wanted.  people don't like hanging out in an empty and/or quiet channel
<duanedesign> :)
<phillw> duanedesign: I have a new lubuntueer, he's a dev person. I may be able to get him on board.
<MrChrisDruif> UndiFineD flies through his padawan's :P
<duanedesign> ok whho has mentee here?
<duanedesign> who wants to give an update
<MrChrisDruif> duanedesign: Hmm?
<phillw> duanedesign: I have 4!
<hajour> well there are all working on the accessibility programs seidos  because i have many in the speechcontrol team
<UndiFineD> I have MrChrisDruif , who needs testamonials
 * seidos flies through his master
<seidos> d'oh
 * seidos puts on the rock of shame and the rock of triumph
<collinp> phillw: Wow.
<collinp> That's quite a bit.
<MrChrisDruif> xD
<duanedesign> MrChrisDruif: at each meeting we like to give updates on how our mentees are doing. Mentors/Masters share the success, or disappearances of their mentees
<duanedesign> ill go first
<phillw> UndiFineD: MrChrisDruif is a wonderful padawan, it is joy and delight to chat to him. He has learned so much.
<duanedesign> Daniel** has been doing well. He has been putting in the time showing up in the channel
<duanedesign> he also is working with phillw
<duanedesign> next
<hajour> i think MrChrisDruif  also would be a good master
<duanedesign> dont be shy, someone tell us how your mentee is doing...
<jledbetter> What about mentee saying how she/he is doing if master isn't present?
<duanedesign> that would be awesome
<phillw> I know that two of mine have had 'issues', but they have assured me that they will not let the project that they have been assigned to down.
<duanedesign> phillw: i think as long as they let you know what is going on
<UndiFineD> MrChrisDruif has been my padawan for a small month, he has been around much longer than that, he is my first, but I think he is ready for his testamonials, he made great progress and is involved in the development with many common teams
<phillw> UndiFineD: If it were a vote, he'd get a +1 from me without hesitation.
<seidos> do you cover positive and negative aspects of mentees or padwans?
<duanedesign> yes MrChrisDruif i see alot in the channel which is good :)
<MrChrisDruif> duanedesign: phillw is omnipresent (or has his ways of getting the news O:-))
<duanedesign> seidos: mostly positives and missing in actions
<seidos> RIP MIA :(
<UndiFineD> seidos: we tend to emphasize the positive, negative aspects can be dealt with in private hmm :)
<collinp> Look who strolls in.
<hajour> duanedesign, cprofitt is not here but i have JackyAlcine in my team many hours and i see him also often in ubuntu beginners team and in ubuntu-beginners helping
<duanedesign> that way if someone is missing someone else has the opportunity to say oh [s]he is...
<seidos> UndiFineD: always?  like festering wounds?
<duanedesign> yes
<duanedesign> i mean yes to hajour :)
<seidos> i inferred \o/
<seidos> is inference the same as assumption?  hmmm
<collinp> Inference is guessing something missing based on what is given.
<collinp> Assumption is guessing based on past experience.
<jledbetter> haha
<UndiFineD> I think JackyAlcine is ready
<duanedesign> ok great
<seidos> past experience isn't given?  hmmmm
<phillw> hajour: I think JackyAlcine would make an excellent mentor, he has the patience to help and the thirst to learn.
<hajour> collinp,  a little could you be a little more clear?
<hajour> yes agree phillw
<duanedesign> [ACTION] work on accessebility fg
<MootBot> ACTION received:  work on accessebility fg
<MrChrisDruif> Does JackyAlcine have the time? He's always busy with SpeechControl :)
<collinp> Er. google.com -> define:inference and define:assumption
<seidos> collinp: i don't disagree with the definitions
<seidos> thanks :)
<charlie-tca> i can infer from what he implied
<jledbetter> But anyway...
<hajour> MrChrisDruif,  a mentee can work with the project fromm his her mentor
<duanedesign> i think that is hajour and UndiFineD. The accessebility fg
<collinp> charlie-tca: Oh my god.
<charlie-tca> lol
<charlie-tca> but assume is never good
<seidos> charlie-tca: you can, but should you ;)
<jledbetter> Back to agenda, please :)
<collinp> ^ good idea.
<phillw> there are enough people on accessibilty channels to support a FG - Some quite astounding people in fact
<duanedesign> oh and charlie-tca and hggdh have been doing a great job of being available to answer questions in our channel about bug triage
 * hggdh hears self's name
<duanedesign> please be aware they are there and they love to help :)
<UndiFineD> yes, the user days was nice
<phillw> duanedesign: and tenach has started the classroom sessions for coding web sites
<UndiFineD> ? phillw did i miss it ?
<phillw> UndiFineD: we have not done that one yet.... me and another are doing those sessions :D
<duanedesign> me and cprofitt talked today about hggdh and charlie-tca becoming members of the BT. I probably dont have to tell you all they would be great members of the team
<MrChrisDruif> I don't want to be a party pooper, but we've got about 15 mins left....
<UndiFineD> duanedesign: totally agree-ing
<duanedesign> and since the last thing we always cover is member votes let us vote on them being members :)
<phillw> duanedesign: I do not know hggdh, but charlie-tca I would give a +1 to
<collinp> There's not another meeting for a while, so we probably won't have any trouble if we go over the meeting time.
<hajour> +1
<hggdh> phillw: I am one of the admins for bug-control and bugsquad
<PabloRubianes> duanedesign, good lets vote then
<duanedesign> [VOTE] hggdh for member
<MootBot> Please vote on:  hggdh for member.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<duanedesign> +1
<collinp> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from duanedesign. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<MootBot> +1 received from collinp. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<phillw> hggdh: you have just gained a +1 from me, bug hunting is a neverending task
<UndiFineD> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from UndiFineD. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<hajour> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from hajour. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<phillw> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from phillw. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<PabloRubianes> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from PabloRubianes. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<duanedesign> any other members present to vote
<collinp> Well, that was simple.
<duanedesign> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 6
<duanedesign> yaa
<hggdh> :-)
<hggdh> thank you folks
<jledbetter> +1 (I was reading sorry)
<jledbetter> Grats!
<duanedesign> welcome hggdh
<collinp> hggdh: I think you mentioning "admin for bug-control and bugsquad" did the trick :P
<PabloRubianes> congrats hggdh
<charlie-tca> Congratulations, hggdh
<hggdh> heh
<MrChrisDruif> Congratz hggdh :)
<duanedesign> ok now mr charlie
<hajour> congrats hggdh and charlie-tca
<charlie-tca> I am just an underling compared to hggdh
<paultag> +1, late
<duanedesign> I met charlie at UDS and I see him all over the community. He would be a great +! iin my book
<paultag> love you guys, keep on keeping on
<hggdh> charlie-tca: not at all
<MrChrisDruif> hajour: I think we need to vote about it (but will prolly pass)
<duanedesign> [VOTE] charlie-tca for member
<MootBot> Please vote on:  charlie-tca for member.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<UndiFineD> +1
<duanedesign> +1
<hajour> +1
<jledbetter> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from UndiFineD. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<MootBot> +1 received from duanedesign. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<MootBot> +1 received from jledbetter. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<collinp> 0
<MootBot> +1 received from hajour. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<paultag> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from paultag. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<collinp> er
<collinp> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from collinp. 5 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 5
<phillw> +1
<PabloRubianes> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from PabloRubianes. 6 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 6
<MootBot> +1 received from phillw. 7 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 7
<duanedesign> ok... anymore
<hggdh> Can I vote?
<pedro3005> seidos
<duanedesign> ya
<paultag> hggdh: I think so, you're a member now :)
<duanedesign> :)
<hggdh> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from hggdh. 8 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 8
<MrChrisDruif> hggdh: Your a member ;)
<duanedesign> he catches on quick
<paultag> duanedesign: inorite?
<duanedesign> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 8 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 8
<duanedesign> woo hoo
<hggdh> charlie-tca is worth it ;-)
<MrChrisDruif> Congratz charlie-tca :)
<charlie-tca> Thank you
<jledbetter> Congratulions charlie-tca :)
<paultag> charlie-tca: 'grats
<duanedesign> collinp: did yiu want to say something?
<hggdh> yeee, I am not the newest member anymore
<PabloRubianes> charlie-tca, congrats!!!
<jledbetter> s/Congratulions/Congratulations/
<duanedesign> charlie-tca: welcome
<collinp> Oh, yes.
<phillw> charlie-tca: and hggdh welcome to UBT.
<UndiFineD> duanedesign:could we vote on JackyAlcine and / or MrChrisDruif ?
<pedro3005> and seidos !
<collinp> We need more members for the Dev FG. I was staving off due to the team structure changes, but I think this would be the best time to announce that, since most of the team is here.
<MrChrisDruif> =-O
<hajour> duanedesign,  can JackyAlcine  be next time on the list for to become ubt member ?
<duanedesign> heh, seidos is like mohi
<collinp> The current member list for the Dev FG, I can count on two hands.
<duanedesign> you mean he is not a member yet!
<collinp> The active members I could count on one hand.
<pedro3005> duanedesign, he's been my padawan for about a year
<duanedesign> collinp: you are rifght
<collinp> If you're interested in joining.. well, let me get the wiki page.
<pedro3005> i can't stand that guy anymore! make him a member already
<MrChrisDruif> pedro3005: A year?
<pedro3005> :P just kidding
<pedro3005> he's cool
<jledbetter> collinp, Aren't we a member if we're on launchpad?
<collinp> jledbetter: You're a member if you're in the Launchpad team, yes.
<duanedesign> i know there is a lot of interest in the Dev FG...
<pedro3005> MrChrisDruif, he became my padawan less than a week after I became a member myself
<collinp> But first, there's a process.
<jledbetter> Woots
<MrChrisDruif> pedro3005: Same with UndiFineD and me :)
<collinp> If you want it simply put, it's me checking that you have the credentials enough to be a productive member of the team (not very much) and helping you if you don't.
<MrChrisDruif> Maybe two weeks...didn't count O:-)
<collinp> So apply to the Launchpad group and I'll get to you on IRC to ensure that you have the credentials for the team.
<duanedesign> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Development
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Development
<jledbetter> That's a nice idea to help folks get there, collinp
<duanedesign> dev FG is aweosme.
<pedro3005> so, let's please consider. the poor guy will go on an existential crisis
<phillw> MrChrisDruif: this is a marathon, not a sprint. take your time and get to know other members :)
<duanedesign> ok seidos
<collinp> Rage. I can't find the wiki page.
<seidos> pedro3005: couldn't you just make a program to automagically confirm members?
<collinp> So I'll just have to list them out manually.
<jledbetter> collinp, Is it the one duanedesign linked?
 * seidos laments and gnashes his teeth
<MrChrisDruif> phillw: I didn't mention being voted upon O:-)
<collinp> jledbetter: That's the team's Wiki page, but not the one I'm looking for.
<jledbetter> Ah ok
<pedro3005> seidos, but, democracy!
<duanedesign> we will do MrChrisDruif  and JackyAlcine next meeting so if you have not met them yet take a minute to say hi
<collinp> Ok. Knowing or be learning a programming language is the biggest one.
<seidos> pedro3005: have everyone vote on your program ;)
<jledbetter> Even Java? ;)
<MrChrisDruif> Hai :D
<collinp> Any programming language will do.
<collinp> jledbetter: Yes, even java.
<jledbetter> haha :D
<pedro3005> seidos, that program exists, it's called MootBot
<collinp> (sadly) but uh
<collinp> No, I'm kidding.
<pedro3005> yeah
<pedro3005> we don't take java programmers
<jledbetter> :'(
<UndiFineD> alright duanedesign
<duanedesign> ok
 * jledbetter takes her blocks and goes home
<seidos> i wish i knew java, heh
<collinp> Knowing your way around bug trackers and release systems is preferred.
<collinp> That's about all that I can think of.
<pedro3005> jledbetter, it's okay. you can still repent your sins. haskell will show you the way to salvation
<jledbetter> haha Haskell? hahahahaha
<jledbetter> Yeah bug tracker, versioning (bzr/git), yep yep
 * pedro3005 grumbles
<pedro3005> enough dev chat?
<duanedesign> :)
<collinp> Typical knowledge of development tools is preferred.
<collinp> Now I'm done.
<jledbetter> Never! But ok.
<pedro3005> we can diverge to -dev if necessary
<duanedesign> anything else?
<pedro3005> uhm... the voting...
<duanedesign> Are we going to make seidos wait one more month
<duanedesign> :)
<seidos> where is confirmation recorded?
<seidos> a wiki?
<hakimsheriff> AM I allowed to vote?
<seidos> i could just go and update it...
<collinp> seidos: Hm?
<hakimsheriff> I am not a full memebr yet
<duanedesign> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/seidos
<seidos> hakimsheriff: why not?
<UndiFineD> hakimsheriff: nope
<MrChrisDruif> Well, then you've got the same luck as me :D
<MrChrisDruif> hakimsheriff ^
<hakimsheriff> Mohi says soon
<MrChrisDruif> You have the pleasure to see the rest of the members make their votes :P
<hakimsheriff> Maybe next meeting
<duanedesign> [VOTE] seidos for member
<MootBot> Please vote on:  seidos for member.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<seidos> i'll just add myself as a mentor on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Mentors
<duanedesign> +!
 * seidos puts on the stone of triumph
<duanedesign> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from duanedesign. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<collinp> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from collinp. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<pedro3005> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from pedro3005. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<UndiFineD> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from UndiFineD. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<phillw> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from phillw. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
 * pedro3005 pokes paultag to vote
<duanedesign> seidos: going once
<duanedesign> twice
<duanedesign> three times
<seidos> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from seidos. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<duanedesign> sold
<MrChrisDruif> xD
<seidos> seis
<duanedesign> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 6
<duanedesign> yaa
<pedro3005> I feel like a ton has been lifted from my shoulder!
 * pedro3005 laughs
<MrChrisDruif> seidos: Voting on yourself ;)
<jledbetter> lol
<seidos> MrChrisDruif: i wanted to exercise my democratic rights
<duanedesign> lets put the other two on the agenda for the next meeting?
<seidos> thanks your honors
 * seidos gives everyone a pen
<hajour> o i missed the vote +1 from me for seidos
<duanedesign> also if anyone wants to help with the post meeting tasks
<duanedesign> please come to -team
<paultag> Oh crud
<paultag> +1
<paultag> duh, of course
<phillw> duanedesign: I'd back Jacky 100%, the work he is doing on speechcontrol is wonderful.
<pedro3005> seidos, you're a cool kid now
<paultag> seidos: +1 for sure
<hajour> me to duanedesign
<duanedesign> Keep BeginnersTeam/TeamReports updated.
<duanedesign> Update Next meeting time on the wiki
<duanedesign> Send meeting minutes to ubuntu-beginners mailing list\
<seidos> paultag: snarky comment
<paultag> seidos: clever retort
<duanedesign> thank you everyone
<seidos> the polls have closed!
 * seidos cries
<duanedesign> grreat meeting!
<duanedesign> haha grrreat
<pedro3005> we laughed, we cried
<jledbetter>  \o/
<duanedesign> i am tony the tiger
<seidos> paultag: if anyone asks, it was 7 votes to 0
<duanedesign> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 19:04.
<pedro3005> but time is fleeting
<jledbetter> for reals
<hakimsheriff> Bye all
<UndiFineD> thanks everyone
<pedro3005> and for complex numbers too
 * jledbetter slips back to -team
<seidos> i am zach the zebra
<duanedesign> congrats to the new members
<MrChrisDruif> Yeah, congratz seidos :)
<UndiFineD> yep congrats hggdh , charlie-tca and seidos
<seidos> thanks MrChrisDruif
<hajour> i have a question .we need stil 4 python and 4 C++ programmers we try to get open mary in natty
<hggdh> UndiFineD: thank you
<hajour> i talk further in #ubuntu-beginners-team
<maco> hey beginners team people
<maco> whats with the C++ class that your wiki page says happens at 15:00 on saturdays and didnt?
<UndiFineD> dont know maco
<hajour> collinp,  do you now it ? what maco ask
<collinp> No idea.
<pedro3005> we should probably take that off the wiki
<pedro3005> maco, DiegoTc was going to teach it, showed up once and never again. at least that's what I saw
<hajour> collinp,  i am become a mentor but seams me better to begin with 1 mentee
<maco> i see
<maco> people were in -classroom early saturday asking what timezone the 15:00 meant and so ...cue utc explanation.... and then i scrolled back and saw it didnt happen and then wondered if the wiki was just for a specific week or what
<seidos> date -R
<seidos> great command
<cjwatson> hi foundations folks
<ev> hiya
<barry> hi
<robbiew> o/
<cjwatson> Robbie has a conflict, so asked me to chair
<cjwatson> (sorry, mumble discussion :-) )
<cjwatson> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:04. The chair is cjwatson.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Lightning round
<MootBot> New Topic:  Lightning round
 * cjwatson looks round
<cjwatson> james_w:
<cjwatson> oops!
<cjwatson> ok, backwards order in the directory :)
<cjwatson> jhunt: how's the week been?
<james_w> hi!
<jhunt> Out Friday+Monday. Submitted byobu merge proposal for my UTF-8
<jhunt> notification utilities and kirkland has now accepted these. Blog post to
<jhunt> follow with some screenshots when I get a chance. Played a bit with my
<jhunt> interactive boot idea for Upstart (looking vaguely promising at this
<jhunt> point :) Documented my thoughts on how we could enhance the testing for
<jhunt> Upstart.  Most of the time spent working on unit + functional tests for
<jhunt> Upstart visualisation (requiring unit test framework changes and lots of
<jhunt> macros to make the test code understandable! :-) Have documented tests
<jhunt> and am currently working through coding. Have now arranged weekly call
<jhunt> with Keybuk. Today, more Upstart tests and started to review patches for
<jhunt> lp:#643289.
<jhunt> EOT
<james_w> I'm afraid to say I haven't contributed much to foundations this week ;-)
<cjwatson> james_w: yep, sorry ;-)
<barry> james_w: please make sure you do better next week :)
<cjwatson> jhunt: cool.  good news on the branch maintenance front by the looks of things too
<jhunt> indeed - I forgot to bring that up earlier!
<mvo> barry: just fyi, I run the python-all auto-upgrade test currently (but its a bit on the slow side, my hdd could be faster it seems)
<barry> mvo: thanks
<cjwatson> psurbhi1: how about you?  (Sorry I haven't got anywhere with your mdadm fixes branch - I asked mvo this afternoon if he could have a look at it)
<psurbhi1> cjwatson, np
<psurbhi1> * worked on nfs-util bug 709392 on thursday, friday and a little bit of today (out of curiosity)
<psurbhi1> * worked on getting mountall in initramfs - printing and debugging - no major success yet.
<psurbhi1> (done)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 709392 in nfs-utils (Ubuntu Lucid) "NFS client does not submit "nfs_file_sync" write requests when the file open call includes O_SYNC." [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/709392
<mvo> psurbhi1: I'm happy to have a look, haven't manged before the meeting unfortunately
<psurbhi1> mvo, np at all.. the merges are for lucid and maverick
<cjwatson> psurbhi1: thanks, give me a shout if you need another set of eyeballs on mountall
<cjwatson> mvo: ?
<mvo> apt: upload backport for apt-ftparchive --arch for soyuz, branch merges, debugging, work on lp:~mvo/apt/dpointer;
<mvo> Auto-upgrade-tester: add simulate profile, cleanup exception, improve overview html;
<mvo> Btfs natty test install; Gdebi: fix gio branch; Jockey: fix pkgfile parser bug lp:~mvo/jockey/fix-multiple-modules-in-packages-file;
<mvo> software-center: work with didrocks on onecnf, add tests for the netstatus branch, review/merges branches; Soyuz: test support-timeframe-fix with bigjools; Unattended-upgrades: bug triage, add much improved matching; update-manager: improve details display, upload new version with poprted modalises code; Xserver-xorg-video-intel: backport fix for xserver-xorg-video-intel #707236
<psurbhi1> cjwatson, ok, thanks!
<cjwatson> mvo: have you done a btrfs test install since yesterday, or was this the previous one?
<cjwatson> I think it should actually work now
<psurbhi1> mvo, cjwatson, is the btrfs test install working?
<mvo> cjwatson: that was the previous one - cool, I will do one today then
<cjwatson> psurbhi1: it ran into some grub breakage (actually fairly small but rather fatal) - I fixed that
<psurbhi1> cjwatson, ok, thanks!
<mvo> \o/
<psurbhi1> :)
 * mvo runs rsync
<cjwatson> the installer side was fine except that the subvolumes needed to be made world-readable
<cjwatson> but I think today's daily build should be all working, assuming it built
<psurbhi1> ok, i will have a look at it too
<cjwatson> doko is on holiday
<cjwatson> ev: ?
<ev> Digging at the X handover in oem-config some more with advice from Scott on the correct approach, usb-creator KVM option, console-setup and xkb-data fixes, timezone widget discussions with GNOME, some bug gardening
<ev> (done)
<cjwatson> oh, is GNOME interested?
<ev> indeed, it's largely going upstream
 * ev digs up the blog post
<cjwatson> that's very cool
<mvo> nice
<ev> http://blogs.gnome.org/thos/2010/07/16/date-and-time-settings/ http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-control-center/tree/?h=wip/datetime-panel
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://blogs.gnome.org/thos/2010/07/16/date-and-time-settings/ http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-control-center/tree/?h=wip/datetime-panel
<mvo> hm, are there missing credits in this post ?
 * cjwatson moves on
<cjwatson> my week (short, I was on holiday on Monday): GRUB btrfs installation fixes (#712029); OpenSSH/hardy fix for IPv6-only hosts (#713002); packaged OpenSSH 5.8p1; porting work; obscure octave3.2 failure on lucid and maverick (#546671); misc grub-install
<cjwatson> er bugs
<ev> mvo: credited in the source code header, which is all I care about really.
<mvo> fair enough
<cdbs> is this the foundation team meeting?
<cjwatson> cdbs: yes
<cjwatson> barry: ?
<barry> bug 686257 (python-keyring); bug 702375 (launchpadlib); bug 712136 (pymca); bug 697792 (fuse); bug 664276 (python-numpy); python-libavg review; platform futures meeting; python27 transition analysis/work; udd docs merge into ubuntu dev guide; still need to work out the whole numpy-matplotlib-wxgtk2.8 dependency tangle; done.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 686257 in python-keyring (Ubuntu) "upgrade to python-keyring 0.5.1 (and MIR)" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/686257
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 702375 in python-launchpadlib (Ubuntu) "Please upgrade to 1.9.5" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/702375
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 712136 in pymca (Ubuntu) "Please merge pymca 4.4.1p1-1 (universe) from debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/712136
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 697792 in fuse (Ubuntu Lucid) "permissions of /etc/fuse.conf are reset on upgrade" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/697792
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 664276 in python-numpy (Ubuntu Natty) "python-numpy doc related build failure" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/664276
<cjwatson> ok, thanks all, I am a slow lightning-guider today
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Alpha-3 bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  Alpha-3 bugs
<cjwatson> our beloved release manager is concerned about bug levels :-)
<cjwatson> I'd like to ask that everyone make a habit of regularly looking at these two URLs and seeing what you can prune out of them
<cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/Agenda#Foundations
<cjwatson> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.milestone=33573
<cjwatson> perhaps we could take a quick run through critical/high in the latter now
<cjwatson> bug 693671 - anyone have a Windows system and fancy attacking this?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 693671 in Ubuntu Natty "wubi install will not boot - phase 2 stops with: Try (hd0,0): NTFS5" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/693671
<cjwatson> bug 605042 - looks like ours, but blocked on kernel team
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 605042 in eglibc (Ubuntu Natty) "[armel] java fails to start with eglibc-2.12-0ubuntu4" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/605042
<cjwatson> bug 634664
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 634664 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Updates not downloaded during install when selected and internet is available" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/634664
<barry> cjwatson: i have w7 in a vm so i can at least take a look
<cjwatson> bug 683260 - this was one of the top ISO testing bugs last time round
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 683260 in casper (Ubuntu Natty) "persistence doesn't work on liveusb" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/683260
<cjwatson> barry: great, let me know if you need orientation in the baroqueness of wubi
<barry> cjwatson: will do :)
<cjwatson> leaving out gcc bugs since doko isn't here
<cjwatson> bug 705917
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 705917 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Natty) "kde frontend keyboard selector broken" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/705917
<ev> equally available for wubi assistance
<cjwatson> bug 712662
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 712662 in bash (Ubuntu Karmic) "network redirection has been enabled" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/712662
<barry> ev: ack
<cjwatson> (actually, that last is assigned to doko already)
<ev> I'll dig at bug 683260
<mvo> looks like 671016 is in progress, but we need to find the right words, I will see how I can improve it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 683260 in casper (Ubuntu Natty) "persistence doesn't work on liveusb" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/683260
<cjwatson> I'm guessing 705917 is my fault, I'll take a look at that
<ev> oh thanks.  I started to pick at that a bit, but got caught up in the xkb-data/console-setup stuff, so ultimately didn't get far
<cjwatson> ah, didn't know you were on it.  yeah, it's very easy to end up yak-shaving with that stuff
<cjwatson> ok, that's enough bugs to be getting on with, I think, but it will definitely help if as many people as possible stay on top of those lists
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] AOB / Good news
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB / Good news
<cjwatson> Debian released, in case anyone's been living under a rock ;-)
<ev> I'm all booked for pycon
 * barry has to do the same
<barry> fwiw, python 3.2 final is getting another rc, so final release pushed back a week
<cjwatson> ok, all done by the looks of things :0
<cjwatson> :)
<cjwatson> thanks all
<cjwatson> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:41.
<barry> thanks cjwatson
<psurbhi1> cjwatson, thanks
<mvo> thanks!
<ev> thanks
<jhunt> thx!
<highvoltage> Howdy!
<highvoltage> Anyone around for the Edubuntu meeting?
<doctormo> I'm here
<mgariepy> i am here too
<alkisg_web> Hi all
<hajour> you are beginning now ?
<highvoltage> yep
 * stgraber waves and go away for another meeting
<hajour> i wanted only to say i am busy to get a school in netherland use edubuntu
<highvoltage> I'll just quickly spew some updates before we talk to doctormo, he's willing to create a wallpaper for us
<hajour> primary school
<highvoltage> hajour: cool, I know of one school (or I think organisation) called Het Hooghuis which also does in the netherlands
<highvoltage> Last week we release alpha 2, it was kind of nasty because of the amd64 webkit bug, but other than that it went quite well
<hajour> i have some questions still about it where can i go for to get answers about it
<highvoltage> and we're mostly on track so far
<highvoltage> Some of the alpha 2 todo items were pushed out to alpha 3: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Devel/RoadMap
<hajour> yes i know its a other province city there is oss
<highvoltage> hajour: #edubuntu
<hajour> thank you very much highvoltage
<highvoltage> hajour: or otherwise any of the methods on http://edubuntu.org/community :)
<highvoltage> (although except for the mailing lists it's usually the same few people active)
<hajour> thank you sorry for the disturb
<highvoltage> no you're welcome!
<hajour> :)
<highvoltage> we also have our first edubuntu-specific security vulnerability, I can't discuss the details yet publically because the fix is currently being prepared for the archives
<highvoltage> I'll send more details about that to the edubuntu-devel list within the next 12-48 hours. we might get quite a lot of questions about that so we should be ready
<highvoltage> over the last weekend I saw this card on doctormo's blog: http://edubuntu.org/communitydoctormo.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d38yry3
<highvoltage> oops, http://doctormo.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d38yry3
<highvoltage> I like the style and doctormo indicated that he's willing to put some effort into a wallpaper for us if we can commit to it
<highvoltage> basically he doesn't want to put a lot of time into it if it's going to be wasted, which is understandable
<highvoltage> we currently have the artwork team creating some wallpapers: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Specs/0006_Edubuntu_Natty_Wallpaper
<highvoltage> current submissions on http://www.flickr.com/groups/uawt-6/
<highvoltage> I'm not sure what you guys think, but personally it sounds like a good idea to go with doctormo if he can commit to see it through
<doctormo> highvoltage: I'm trying to upload an updated version for you.
 * highvoltage wonders if mhall119 is around
 * mhall119 is
<highvoltage> mhall119: good, you usually have an opinion about this kind of thing :)
<mhall119> I like doctormo's circuit image best
<highvoltage> I liked that too
<mhall119> the elephants image on flickr second best, but elephant != narwhal, and that might be confusing
<mhall119> give that past animal wallpapers have matched the release mascot
<doctormo> What I would like for you both to do mhall119 and highvoltage is put aside your asthetic and think about solid things you want and want to avoid.
<doctormo> So, no clishays(sp)
<highvoltage> clichÃ©s, yes
<highvoltage> well, not the old boring ones at least
<mhall119> I'd say no words (unless they're for asthetics not reading)
<doctormo> The artwork team is coming to a consensus on the format of requests that edubuntu should be aware of
<highvoltage> yeah we mentioned no text on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Specs/0006_Edubuntu_Natty_Wallpaper
<mhall119> not cartoonish either
<doctormo> Competitions are no ok for artwork unless they are designed to foster a learning experience between artists.
<doctormo> All artwork should probably be matched up with artists who your happy to work with and who you trust and who are willing to work with you.
<mhall119> can we trust doctormo?
<highvoltage> I like cartoonish, but that's just me, and also why we need larger input (because I love the cartoonish style of http://doctormo.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d38yry3)
<highvoltage> mhall119: I have no idea
<highvoltage> mhall119: he seems sincere :)
<mhall119> that hat makes him look shifty
<highvoltage> it does.
<mhall119> I'm not even sure he's really a doctor
<highvoltage> like doctor evil?
<doctormo> I'm a witch doctor, next question! ;-)
<highvoltage> I'm not sure how to approach this
 * cody-somerville has always enjoyed the abstract realism type artwork Fedora uses for their wallpaper.
<highvoltage> if we're going to make a wiki page and spam the list/identica/etc to comment on it we're going to end up with a page with lots of contradictions and something that's not clear enough for doctormo to work from
<doctormo> highvoltage: Imagine you needed code contributions.
<highvoltage> costales: *nod*
<doctormo> Definition, concept and mood. That's all I need.
<costales> hi highvoltage
<highvoltage> doctormo: the difference with code and artwork is that code usually has few right ways of doing it. I think there are many ways to have nice wallpapers
<doctormo> I can make several different non-complete works and you can pick between them and then I'll finish the one you want.
 * highvoltage makes some notes about what doctormo needs
<highvoltage> doctormo: that sounds great
<highvoltage> doctormo: pretty much the biggest things I can think of is that our panels are very light in colour, so having a wallpaper that's not too light would be great (the low contrast is a problem with the current wallpaper)
<doctormo> highvoltage: Also check the updated version: http://doctormo.deviantart.com/art/Underwater-Stream-196560265
<highvoltage> doctormo: other than ideally having no text, and avoiding the usual clichÃ©s that we've seen a million times, I don't think there's really any hard limits, I'd like to give you as much artistic license as possible
<doctormo> Before the set of 5 concept works, I'll need those three things from you guys.
<doctormo> As well as the rules. Which seem to consist of: no cartoons, no cliches, no text.
<highvoltage> ok, we'll get those to you by friday. I'll spam the usual contact means and if people don't respons then they'll have to be happy with what I suggest to you :)
 * doctormo thinks that if he really had free license, he'd make a 100% black wallpaper and you'd have to use it  ;-)
<highvoltage> strictly speaking, that *would* fit the current criterea we gave you :)
<highvoltage> doctormo: ok, so we'll get back to you on friday at with that information. either that or if people aren't happy with giving up on the artwork team I'll let you know
<highvoltage> the artwork team's work is good and we'll include it on the disc, I'm just not fond of using it for a default
<highvoltage> oh hi costales :)
<doctormo> highvoltage: I am doing this as part of the artwork team
<highvoltage> doctormo: ok, that's really good, do you talk to john baer at all?
<doctormo> Consider the that there is a little bit of a fork, there is me, thorwil and the canonical people and then there is a seperate prong.
<highvoltage> ok, that answers my question exactly
<highvoltage> anything else for the edubuntu meeting?
<doctormo> that consists of baer who believes in wikipedia style, mass competition style amateur art and the extensive use of flikr. Which can work...
<highvoltage> yeah
<highvoltage> well, I guess that's it for this meeting then, we can continue in #edubuntu then :)
<highvoltage> *GONG*
<doctormo> thanks highvoltage
<poolie> hi
<poolie> Ubuntu DistributedDevelopment meeting starting now; all welcome
<poolie> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 15:01. The chair is poolie.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
 * slangasek waves
<jelmer> me
<jelmer> hi slangasek
<poolie> [topic] attendees
<MootBot> New Topic:  attendees
<poolie> hi jelmer, slangasek
<poolie> barry sent apologies
<wendar> listening in
<poolie> james_w, hi?
<james_w> hi
<james_w> sorry I'm late :-)
<poolie> np :)
<poolie> agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment/20110209#preview
<jam> hi
<poolie> [topic] action items
<MootBot> New Topic:  action items
<poolie> * poolie to send bzr rotation pitch to platform mailing list
<poolie> done!
<jam> I do believe I saw that \o/
<poolie> actually i sent it to canonical-tech
<poolie> want to try it?
<poolie> i got one response already, which is good
<poolie> perhaps i should forward it to ubuntu-platform?
<james_w> cool
<jam> poolie: "want to try it"? try what?
<james_w> I would
<poolie> working on bzr :)
<james_w> jam, try a rotation to the bzr team?
<poolie> ok
<jam> ah
<jam> sure, I'll rotate to bzr for 6 months
<poolie> i wonder if we can send a similar invitation to non-canonical-staff?
<poolie> just as a thing they might be interested to work on
<poolie> perhaps a post that gets to the planet is best
<james_w> yeah, I think that would be best
<poolie> [action] poolie to forward to ubuntu-platform
<MootBot> ACTION received:  poolie to forward to ubuntu-platform
<poolie> [action] poolie to advertise udd projects to non-staff contributors
<MootBot> ACTION received:  poolie to advertise udd projects to non-staff contributors
<james_w> posting with things to do and ways to get started can help
<poolie> right
<poolie> * poolie to update hot bugs for next meeting
<poolie> done
<poolie> we're now using assignment to <https://bugs.launchpad.net/~canonical-bazaar/+assignedbugs> to track our short list
<jam> poolie: is that just ~canonical-bazaar, or is there a different list of 'hot' bugs?
<poolie> i think just that's enough
<poolie> and that also shows up in https://devpad.canonical.com/~mbp/kanban/bzr-kanban.html
<poolie> which i propose we use to review them in a bit
<poolie> to review which particular bugs are listed, and whether anything else should be
<poolie> any comments on this?
<jelmer> poolie: So we use that to track our hot bugs list, then reassign to a specific person when we actually start hacking?
<poolie> correct
<poolie> the kanban shows bugs assigned to the team or its members
<poolie> it would be nice to show this in lp itself too
<poolie> (i wonder if there's a bug for that)
<poolie> ok, moving on
<james_w> poolie, is that assigned list *the* queue to work from?
<poolie> yes, it is
<james_w> ok
<james_w> so we should prioritise and put the most important in that list, and drop things that aren't that important?
<poolie> people can also take reactive/opportunistic/itch-scratching bugs of course, but they should be taking a lot of work from there
<james_w> over time I mean
<poolie> with the caveat that bugs they've specifically individually taken from that page won't show up
<poolie> as i mentioned above
<poolie> correct, we should
<poolie> i hope during the bug review phase of this meeting we'll do some of that
<james_w> ok
<james_w> thanks
<poolie> every fortnight
<poolie> * poolie to file bug about MOTD information for out-of-date packages
<poolie> done
<poolie> but not assigned?
<jelmer> there was also a very old bug by spiv, perhaps that should be marked as a dupe?
<jelmer> bug 121201
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 121201 in Bazaar "Allow servers to give clients a MOTD" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/121201
<poolie> it seems like we could use that to implement this
<poolie> ok
<poolie> https://bugs.launchpad.net/udd/+bug/609187
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 609187 in Ubuntu Distributed Development "bzr branch lp:ubuntu/foo should warn when foo is out of date" [High,Triaged]
<poolie> and it actually is assigned
<poolie> and barry filed it
<jelmer> ah, ok
<jam> poolie: next?
<poolie> * jam to review spiv's branch for bug 603395
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 603395 in Bazaar "bzr commit in a heavyweight checkout does not propagate new tags" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/603395
<jam> I didn't get to it, but poolie did, so still done
<poolie> i know spiv did some of them
<poolie> but the bug's still open?
<poolie> anyhow, spiv seems to be progressing on it
<poolie> * barry to file bug on debcommit/bzr commit
<poolie> i think he did
<jam> poolie: the line-item was about the review, not closing the bug....
<poolie> right, it doesn't require review now anyhow
<poolie> spiv fixed a bunch of related bugs
<poolie> * barry to file bug on debcommit/bzr commit
<poolie> blah
<poolie> * jam to follow up on pristine-tar stuff
<jam> poolie: I know barry talked about debcommit, I didn't see a bug on it
<jam> poolie: pristine-tar was updated, many packages fixed, a small handful still failing
<jam> so done for that level
<jam> it is no longer the #1 failure in the importer
<poolie> anything more to do?
<jam> poolie: we've done what that item was meant to be. I think investigating future failing imports is just regular stuff
<poolie> ok
<poolie> [topic] LEP https://dev.launchpad.net/LEP/BuildFromBranchIntoPrimary
<MootBot> New Topic:  LEP https://dev.launchpad.net/LEP/BuildFromBranchIntoPrimary
<poolie> we have a lep proposing our major feature here
<poolie> i have some questions from jml to fill it out a bit more
<poolie> [action] poolie to integrate jml's feedback into lep
<MootBot> ACTION received:  poolie to integrate jml's feedback into lep
<poolie> [action] poolie to meet with allison re lep
<MootBot> ACTION received:  poolie to meet with allison re lep
<poolie> [action] poolie to meet with robbiew re lep
<MootBot> ACTION received:  poolie to meet with robbiew re lep
<robbiew> huh?
<poolie> we need to get it triaged for launchpad if we want a feature squad to work on it
<poolie> :) hi
<poolie> i have an action to show you https://dev.launchpad.net/LEP/BuildFromBranchIntoPrimary and see what you say :)
<robbiew> ah..cool
<robbiew> sorry to interrupt ;)
 * robbiew goes back into his cave
<poolie> np, consider yourself shown
<poolie> can we set a time separately to look at it, or could you just mail me feedback?
<poolie> ("i don't understand what you're talking about" is ok feedback if that's the case)
<poolie> ok
<poolie> [topic] Package importer progress
<MootBot> New Topic:  Package importer progress
<poolie> the big thing here is that we went through the wheezy release, which caused a bunch of disruption
<poolie> including bug 715000
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 715000 in Bazaar 2.3 "Stacking is not fully transitive" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/715000
<poolie> the fix for which should be deployed today
<poolie> i think after that we can restart the importer
<poolie> in fact, probably we could restart it now, but it might give the importer indigestion
<james_w> is that being rolled out to jubany as well?
<poolie> the fixed bzr?
<jam> james_w: aiui jubany doesn't care
<jam> lp does
<poolie> it probably should be, but i haven't specifically seen it fail there
<jam> package_import.py doesn't trigger that code path that was having problems with double stacking
<james_w> yeah, the fixed bzr
<poolie> i think it only affects log on a doubly-stacked branch
<james_w> ok, if you've verified then I'm happy
<poolie> i think we should just wait for it to be in 2.3.1 or 2.4b1 and then roll that out
<james_w> it /does/ do some interrogation of branches over hpss though
<poolie> ok
<jam> james_w: it affects rev_id => dotted_revno code, but I don't think you hit that in importing.
<poolie> are we ok to just fix it if it fails?
<james_w> see get_unimported_revisions or roundabout
<james_w> if that's how you want to do it then I'm fine with that
<jam> poolie: I agree, I think if we see package imports failing, it just becomes a high priority to roll out the code on jubany
<poolie> i'll add a task
<poolie> i think the wheezy addition has caused a bump in the number of failures
<poolie> at any rate the graph has gone up
<poolie> hopefully once this is all done it will be back down
<poolie> i am pleased by the increasing amount of work on the importer
<jam> poolie: is there another bug to restack deb branches to sid?
<jam> which is also a workaround for this ug
<jam> bug
<jam> since you don't end up with double-stacking
<poolie> also under that heading, i made a plan with charlies and mthaddon that we'll move it to pepo and (if possible) give up login access on the 1st of March
<poolie> i think there is
<slangasek> wrt the importer... where is that code published?  I don't see any links to the code from http://package-import.ubuntu.com/status/ or https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment
<jam> slangasek: lp:udd
<poolie> good question
<slangasek> ah
<slangasek> if this could be linked more prominently, perhaps it would help with getting extra-canonical folks involved
<poolie> excellent point
<poolie> i'll file abug
<jam> slangasek: tbh, I doubt it, but I'm happy for it to be more prominently linked
<slangasek> jam: maybe it is wishful thinking... there've been a few importer bugs that I would've been keen to at least look at, if I'd been able to find the code more readily :)
<poolie> it's true
<jam> most of the import code itself is in bzr-builddeb, but sure
<poolie> we can say that too
<poolie> bug 716123, marked easy
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 716123 in Ubuntu Distributed Development "web page should tell where to get the source" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/716123
<poolie> any other comments on the package importer?
<jam> poolie: I'm poking around trying to get feedback for how people want imports to look, especially wrt quilt imports
<poolie> true
<poolie> thanks for doing that
<poolie> it's looking like they really should be imported to looms
<jelmer> yeah, I think quilt imports will be important
<jam> yeah, but that still leaves us with "and what does that actually mean" :)
<jam> also, that wouldn't strictly block a switchover
<jam> so i'm not 100% sure what the importance is
<jam> The discussion has been very useful for me to start understanding what is actually going on, though.
<james_w> (http://paste.ubuntu.com/565180/ is what the importer does over hpss, so I think it should be fine)
<jam> james_w: it isn't strictly an hpss thing, any double-stacked branch will fail during log, etc (even purely locally)
<jelmer> jam: Yeah :)
<poolie> shall we add an action for next time for you to summarize where we got to?
<jam> poolie: sure
<james_w> jam, right, but we talk over hpss to LP, which has some double stacked branches
<jam> sounds like a good action item
<poolie> [topic] jam to propose/report plan for quilt imports
<MootBot> New Topic:  jam to propose/report plan for quilt imports
<poolie> incidentally, i'm going to be on leave 2 weeks from today
<poolie> just for a long weekend
<james_w> everything else is done locally with no stacking, apart from fetch, which we know is fine
<slangasek> s/topic/action/?
<poolie> moving on
<poolie> you're right
<poolie> [action] jam to propose/report plan for quilt imports
<MootBot> ACTION received:  jam to propose/report plan for quilt imports
<poolie> [topic] hot bug review
<MootBot> New Topic:  hot bug review
<poolie> should that be 'revue'? :)
<poolie> [url] https://devpad.canonical.com/~mbp/kanban/bzr-kanban.html
<poolie> that's a bit large to read the whole thing
<slangasek> [link] https://devpad.canonical.com/~mbp/kanban/bzr-kanban.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://devpad.canonical.com/~mbp/kanban/bzr-kanban.html
<poolie> but i think it may be a good way to track whether we're working on the right htings
<james_w> poolie, I'll start referring to you all as the bzr troupe
<poolie> so let's focus on things near the top (critical/high) and in the middle (in progress etc)
<jam> poolie: when did we start getting big red ! ?
<jam> and what does that actually mean?
<poolie> today, apparently
<poolie> jamu must have added it
<poolie> "in review for more than 3 days"
<jelmer> jam: it looks like the time the bug has been in progress
<poolie> or in progress for more than 7 days
<poolie> i kind of envy landscape if it's a big (!) for something to take more than 7 days
<poolie> but perhaps we can get there too if we reduce our wip
<slangasek> what's the process for moving from needs testing -> verified? I was all ready to jump on testing bug #706990, I see someone has already followed up to the bug to say it's fixed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 706990 in Bazaar Git Plugin "git-import fails on remote repository with AttributeError: 'RemoteGitRepository' object has no attribute '_git'" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/706990
<poolie> slangasek, there's a key at the bottom
<slangasek> aha
<poolie> this has been good to work on with jkakar btw
<poolie> bug 702024 should be good for making lp rollouts less disruptive
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 702024 in Launchpad itself "Restarting codehosting SSH server drops existing connections" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/702024
<poolie> so, what should we do here?
<poolie> are there particular bugs that ought to be on here but aren't?
<poolie> should we go back to having the meeting review ~10 top bugs?
<poolie> perhaps we should look at the critical bugs?
<jam> slangasek: some projects (not bzr) use Fix Committed vs Fix Released, which changes only once there is a full release, not sure that you can release packages, but you could poke the upstreams
<poolie> i think we have a few too many bugs altogether in-process at the moment
<poolie> but i think if we pay attention it will go down
<slangasek> jam: oh, well, I can at least set the tag on the bugs if things prove ok in my own testing :)
<poolie> of the bugs mentioned in the previous meeting, all of them are assigned or done, except bug 499684 is assigned to barry
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 499684 in bzr-builddeb "Interface to dpkg-buildpackage inconsistent and not well documented" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/499684
<poolie> s//assigned to canonical-bazaar
<poolie> ok, moving on
<poolie> [topic] any other business?
<MootBot> New Topic:  any other business?
<jam> poolie: there is a ton of bugs in there on projects that aren't bzr, and thus don't conform to our bug triage standards
<jam> I'm not sure how kanban should interpret that
<slangasek> poolie: I can share some happy news if you like
<jam> note that *everything* in Verified is assigned to jelmer
<poolie> yes, i think he started doing things that way after i set this up
<poolie> perhaps to see how it works
<poolie> i think we can fudge it
<poolie> slangasek, please do
<slangasek> I wrote up https://wiki.linaro.org/Platform/DevPlatform/ComponentReleasesWithBzr last week with some recipes for using UDD branches within Linaro, and am seeing some good uptake by the team
<slangasek> the bad news is that I think I've found every single bug in bzr-git :-)
<jelmer> yeah, I'd be happy to see Verified gone.. I was just seeing how things worked
<slangasek> so there are now some official UDD branches in Launchpad with some very rich git history attached
<poolie> slangasek, wow, that's great, thanks very much
<poolie> let's make sure those bugs get escalated and addressed
<poolie> jelmer, i wonder if it would be good for you to pair on fixing those bugs with say vila
<poolie> to spread the love around
<poolie> mm, i don't know -what- time zone you're in though :)
<jelmer> poolie: the bzr-git bugs? I'd be happy to
<poolie> maybe you overlap more with jam?
<jam> poolie: in a month it will be the same :)
<jelmer> slangasek: are these all related to pushing into git, or fetching as well?
<slangasek> jelmer: fetching
<slangasek> jelmer: 706990 is certainly one I ran into; I've also been dancing on the bleeding edge with qemu-linaro, which has submodule references upstream
<poolie> slangasek, so if they're blocking your work on this, please make sure they're at least High
<jelmer> slangasek: perhaps we should bump the importance of some bugs
<poolie> and assigned to someone
<poolie> (or if you can't actually triage/assign, just comment asking for it)
<slangasek> nothing blocking currently as I've routed around the damage in the recipes - but I'm happy to highlight the bugs for your consideration
<poolie> please do
<poolie> that page is really nice
<slangasek> who should I feed the list to? (I can't bump bug priorities myself)
<poolie> you can mail it to ubuntu-distributed-devel or you can comment on the bugs
<slangasek> ok
<poolie> whichever is easier
<poolie> you could forward a link to that page too
<slangasek> will do
<poolie> any other feedback from people who've used it?
<poolie> [action] poolie forward/link to https://wiki.linaro.org/Platform/DevPlatform/ComponentReleasesWithBzr
<MootBot> ACTION received:  poolie forward/link to https://wiki.linaro.org/Platform/DevPlatform/ComponentReleasesWithBzr
<slangasek> I asked John Rigby to file a bug on bzr-git for his experience of "bzr branch ran for a really long time and then crashed", dunno if he's gotten around to it yet :)
<slangasek> otherwise the feedback has been positive
<poolie> good
<poolie> please do get people to file bugs, especially if they can get a traceback and/or -Dhpss trace
<poolie> we don't fix them all right away but we are fixing a lot of them
<slangasek> ack
<poolie> ok, i think that's it
<poolie> happy hacking, everyone
<poolie> i'll be on leave from the 23rd and back on the 2nd
<poolie> #ends
<poolie> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 15:57.
<slangasek> thanks, all :)
<james_w> thanks
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-02-10
<ogra> foopl
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:00. The chair is NCommander.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
 * rsalveti waves
<NCommander> good morning world
<janimo> hello
<NCommander> who's here?
<ogra> froop
 * NCommander smacks the wiki
<NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2011/20110210
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2011/20110210
<NCommander> [topic] Action Item Review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action Item Review
<NCommander> [topic] NCommander to talk to the release team on which team to track w.r.t. to bugs (co)
<MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander to talk to the release team on which team to track w.r.t. to bugs (co)
<NCommander> co again
<NCommander> [topic] Standing Items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Standing Items
<NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel.html
<NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel-natty-alpha-3.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel-natty-alpha-3.html
 * NCommander closed two work items today :-)
<NCommander> and started work on modifying f-k to use archdetect
 * NCommander pokes everyone else
<NCommander> no one else has any comments?
 * janimo works on updating  bootfiles
<janimo> I'll close some WIs soon
<ogra> i dont think archdetect will get you anywhere
<ogra> what you want is persias new detection tool
<ogra> thats why more precise
<ogra> *way
<persia> It's *too* precise.
<persia> f-k should install the same kernel on multiple devices when the kernel supports multiple devices.
<persia> archdetect is the right way to do this.
<ogra> hmm, k
<ogra> who is testing that and how ?
<NCommander> ogra: well, first it needs to exist to be tested :-)
<ogra> we only have omap for that but not the devices
<ogra> unless anyone has an igep2
<ogra> or gumstix that works
<persia> Send out a call for testing.  There's plenty of folk with igep2 around.
<persia> Doesn't gumstix have an MMC issue?
<ogra> should be in the testing plan
<ogra> i dont know if all of them do
<ogra> mine surely does
<ogra> s/does/did in lucid/
<persia> lucid is an old kernel :p  Try again
<ogra> anyway, jasper rewrite has to wait until i'm done with unity-2d .... there are updates in the queue
<davidm> ogra, how many are there?
<ogra> my other specs arent FF relevant
<ogra> davidm, all of it
<ogra> davidm, i'll talk about it in the unity-2d topic
<davidm> Ah OK
<NCommander> [topic] Unity 2D Status
<MootBot> New Topic:  Unity 2D Status
<ogra> hehe
<NCommander> ogra: your time is now :-)
<ogra> so i had a call with Kaleo today
<ogra> to sync up
<ogra> they have 3.4 ready
<ogra> i'm holind that back until the already reviewed packages are in main
<ogra> which should happen before end of the week
<ogra> *holding
<ogra> (since i dont want everything to be reviewed again)
<ogra> (by MIR team)
<ogra> there are two metacity patches we need
<ogra> both have been reviwed by me and desktop team
<ogra> one of them needs fixes from bfiller
<ogra> if these patches are in and the packages are in main i'll care for the 3.4 update
<ogra> right before FF we will get 3.8
<ogra> (not sure if i will upload 3.6 specifically during next week)
<davidm> ogra, that makes sense
<ogra> the unity-2d team has a policy that features are not to have bugs
<ogra> so they are under more pressure than us here wrt FF
<ogra> i'll likely be busy while in cambridge :)
<ogra> doing their package upgrades
<ogra> well, thats it
<ogra> ..
<ogra> questions ?
<ogra> else move
<NCommander> [topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, rsalveti)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Status (cooloney, rsalveti)
<rsalveti> for omap 3 we got the new update from 38-rc4
<rsalveti> should work the same way as before
<rsalveti> did some tests around here and it seems to be quite stable
<rsalveti> GrueMaster: how are your omap 3 testing going?
<rsalveti> we need to test sound, s-video, usb-otg
<janimo> I filed bug to drop versatile from kernel (only indirectly affects us now by having shorter build time)
<ogra> did anyone test rootstock yet ?
<GrueMaster> I was focusing on unity-2d testing yesterday.  Will test with new image today.
<persia> Does the current qemu support omap well enough already?
<rsalveti> janimo: cool, sounds a good timing, as everybody is testing the omap 3 kernel
<rsalveti> ogra: have that on may todo list
<ogra> great
<GrueMaster> I have no way to test s-video.
<rsalveti> persia: yup, linaro is using on their tools
<ogra> persia, yes
<rsalveti> GrueMaster: ok, I believe I can test the s-video output here
<rsalveti> omap 4 kernel got some more stable updates, but still no release
<ogra> we have a ppa kernel
<rsalveti> we had the kernel discussion this week
<ogra> that waits for testing
<rsalveti> to have a 38
<rsalveti> yup, ppa https://launchpad.net/~canonical-kernel-team/+archive/ppa
<GrueMaster> ogra: I haven't seen any notification of anything that needs testing.
<rsalveti> this is from the ti-omap4-dev branch, at the natty's kernel
<ogra> GrueMaster, two lines above :)
<ogra> that kernel wont have a working display driver yet
<rsalveti> this kernel is basically the upstream one (same as master), but for omap 4
<GrueMaster> yea, I see it now.
<ogra> so make sure to have serial enabled when testing it
<rsalveti> seems we have proper dvi patches at the linux-omap
<rsalveti> so we should get at least dvi display working soon
<ogra> could someone ask for them to be pulled into our branch ?
<ogra> or poke cooloney
<rsalveti> I can help with the patches, but can't work as my board has a broken dvi
<rsalveti> *test
<rsalveti> cooloney should be able to work on this
<rsalveti> NCommander: put an action point for me to poke cooloney to work on the dvi patches
<ogra> ++
<ogra> though someone said he is on vacation
<rsalveti> hm, true, but should be back soon probably
<GrueMaster> Chinese new year.
<rsalveti> anyway, I can email him
<rsalveti> no other update atm
<NCommander> [action] rsalveti to poke cooloney w.r.t. to DVI patches on OMAP4
<MootBot> ACTION received:  rsalveti to poke cooloney w.r.t. to DVI patches on OMAP4
<ogra> that kernel should get main focus during testing
<rsalveti> I'll work to push the patch that gets beagle running at 720mhz soon too
<ogra> the .35 one we have wont see any updates anymore
<rsalveti> that should improve the omap 3 performance
<ogra> ++
<rsalveti> yup
<rsalveti> questions? :-)
<rsalveti> ..
<janimo> yes, any news on .38 ?
<ogra> are we there yet ?
<janimo> for omap4
<rsalveti> janimo: not much
<ogra> janimo, read above ?
<rsalveti> we have upstream working on it
<rsalveti> got a branch with a ppa
<rsalveti> but still no patchset from ti
<janimo> ogra, must have missed it
<ogra> too much side conversation around :)
<GrueMaster> Are we at least guaranteed that the .38 kernel won't burn up any hardware?  I don't want another babbage 2.5 incident.
<janimo> and too much use of Ctrl-L on my part :)
<rsalveti> GrueMaster: should be safe
<GrueMaster> ok
<ogra> GrueMaster, it should work already, no idea if it will burn up anything but i doubt it
<ogra> feel free to be at the friday call
<ogra> to find out expected issues
<GrueMaster> requires waking up.
<davidm> GrueMaster, that was a hardware failure, OMAP does not suffer from that
<NCommander> GrueMaster: unable to satisfy dependencies: Coffee is not available, but is referenced by other packages.
<ogra> GrueMaster, its the same time as this meeting
 * NCommander runs
<GrueMaster> davidm: Just making sure.  Better safe than...
<davidm> True enough
<rsalveti> move?
<NCommander> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster)
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster)
<NCommander> Moved
<ogra> where to ?
<ogra> left to right or back -> forward ?
<rsalveti> forward is always better :P
<ogra> hehe
<GrueMaster> Discussed bug reports with marjo and davidm.  List we care about for reporting purposes is http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/canonical-arm-assigned-bug-tasks.html
<ogra> GrueMaster, you assigned some bugs to the team recently
<ogra> can we have them listed in the meeting in the future and assign them right after to individuals ?
<GrueMaster> List for discussing open bugs that the team should look at and take individual ownership of is http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/ubuntu-armel-assigned-bug-tasks.html
<ogra> awesome
<ogra> you are ahead of my thoughts :)
<marjo> GrueMaster, ogra: thx!
<GrueMaster> The second one will have the team assigned bugs as well as individual bugs.
<ogra> though i really dislike to assigne them to the team
<ogra> we explicitly avoided that in the past
<GrueMaster> Come up with a better way to do a list and I'll use it.
<davidm> ogra, is only way to differentiate bugs we care about vs armel general bugs
<ogra> davidm, why doesnt the way we use since years work ?
<GrueMaster> what way is that?
<davidm> there are a lot of bugs we just don't care about making it far to easy to miss those that we do care for.  signal to noise ratio is too high on general armel list
<ogra> subscribing the team instead of hard assigning them
<ogra> and then assign them to the individual that actually works on it
<ogra> we never used the team as asignee
<ogra> and imho that can only be a temporary thing
<GrueMaster> there are a lot of bugs we don't care about that the team is subscribed to.
<davidm> I don't think it really matters too much and what GrueMaster just said
<ogra> who subscribed the team to them ?
<davidm> lots of folks subscribe us to bugs
<ogra> can we at least fix the bug policy accordingly then
<ogra> policy was to subscribe the team for awareness but leave them unassigned until someone actually works on them
<GrueMaster> What about the bugs that linaro is working on that our team is subscribed to?  We care about them from a knowledge standpoint, but not a reporting standpoiint.
<ogra> assigning them to the team generates the false assumption someone works on it
<ogra> GrueMaster, right
<GrueMaster> assigning them to the team acknowledges that they have been seen and are being reviewed by the team.
<ogra> assignment clearly means someone works on it
<ogra> which isnt true for team assigned bugs
<davidm> Well I think we can adjust the policy document
<ogra> k
<ogra> how do we make sure someone works on it
<persia> Best to be aligned with the general bugsquad guides, which matches what ogra has been saying.
<ogra> we need to make up a period for reviewing them regulary and assign
<davidm> persia, then how do we tell what we care about in general?
<GrueMaster> Also, I am not sure how easy it is to generate a report with bugs the team is subscribed to.
<davidm> The list of bugs we are subscribed to is too large, the signel to noise ratio is much to hight
<davidm> s/hight/high/
<GrueMaster> without excessive noise.
<ogra> davidm, we *care* about all bugs the team is subscribed to ... we *work* on all bugs assigned to team membvers
<davidm> Not true
<persia> davidm, There's currently a gap in managing buglists for teams in launchpad.  It's been discussed by the LP team, and has had some preliminary spec work, but it's a ways from deployment.
<ogra> davidm, if thats not trues someone screwed it up
<persia> NCommander, action me to go follow up on that status, and report usefully.
<ogra> davidm, that has beed our bug policy since years now
<davidm> it is very true, with Linaro in the mix now its even more true
<NCommander> [action] persia to work on determining the gap w/ managing bug lists on LP
<MootBot> ACTION received:  persia to work on determining the gap w/ managing bug lists on LP
<persia> *status* I know the gap :)
<davidm> not disagreeing what has been old policy, what I'm saying is old policy has now hit wall making it less useful to us
<ogra> well, i still want to be subscribed to get bugmail for the team
<rsalveti> the problem is that now we have linaro in the game
<GrueMaster> my goal is less about following our bug policy and more about making a meaningful report for these meetings.
<davidm> I want an easy way to get a report that I care fully about vs a report with a signal to noise ratio that is too hight to be useful
<davidm> persia, do you understand what I am looking for?
<persia> The problem isn't linaro.  The problem is that LP never had any way to manage teams, and as the number of teams grows, this gets noticed.
<ogra> i dont see the team assignment as wrong as long as we make sure such bugs are assigned to actual persons within a very short timeframe (max a week)
<persia> davidm, Precisely.  You want to be able to identify a set of bugs that you want your team to work on, prioritise them, and collect reports on progress.
<davidm> I'm OK with a max of a week
<ogra> but that puts a high load on tobin
<davidm> persia, yes
<GrueMaster> ogra: not really.
<ogra> to assemble these liasts and do a lot of triage
<ogra> *lists
<GrueMaster> And please don't assume you know what my workload is.
<persia> ogra, No, LP should be able to do it.  I need to resync with mpt about the design work done last month, and maybe toss up a PoC or something.
<ogra> i dont, but i can assume how it raises ;)
<ogra> assigning a bug needs conversation
<GrueMaster> If my workload becomes a concern, I will raise a flag.
<ogra> that will definitely add time
<ogra> and guesswork on your side to find the right person to take it etc etc
<GrueMaster> Thats why I am assigning the team.  So we can discuss the list of team assigned bugs in this meeting (not the report formats).
<ogra> geez
<persia> That's a reasonable stop-gap.  Let's keep that list to be small for now, and actually cover them during the meeting, so they can be better reassigned.
<ogra> your list has tons of crap
<GrueMaster> My idea was to spend time throughout the week triaging bugs (which I do while platforms are downloading & installing).  Then we have a nice report to discuss here.
<GrueMaster> It's a work in progress.
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> i see that
<ogra> there are many bugs that can just be closed
<ogra> (the babbage ones stick out in my face ;) )
<persia> Lots of those aren't platform-specific
<GrueMaster> then close them.  At least start closing the bugs that you have fixed but not updated.  That takes a lot of my time too.
<ogra> they are rather wontfix
<GrueMaster> I am working on it.
<ogra> what about the bugs assigned to others i.e, i see lool, asac and dyfet
<ogra> will you assign them back to the team ?
<GrueMaster> I have a novel idea.  Instead of complaining, how about coming up with some valid suggestions on how to fix this?  It would be much more productive than calling my work crap.
<janimo> GrueMaster, persia  I see some bugs (not arm ones) LP automatically closed after a period of inactivity. Is that up to the project's admins?
<ogra> GrueMaster, i dont call your work crap ...
<GrueMaster> LP closes some bugs after a period of inactivity.
<persia> janimo, It's on a per-package basis.  There's a lot of debate about it.  I believe it's actively harmful for things to be closed like that.
<ogra> i call the bugs crap, nothing to do with you or the list
<GrueMaster> And I am working on it.  As I said.
<ogra> janimo, if you leave a bug in incomplete status for 60 days it gets autoclosed
<NCommander> I don't think we're going to resolve this in a single meeting, persia has an action item to deal with the bug/noise ratio, now can we please move on?
<janimo> ogra, I seem to remember some arm bugs from 2 years back
<persia> Sometimes, depending, and it's supposed to get autoexpired, rather than autoclosed.
<persia> NCommander, Please.
<ogra> janimo, then they werent marked incomplete
<ogra> NCommander, go
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
<NCommander> QT works
<NCommander> queue celebration :-P
<NCommander> *que
<janimo> :)
<NCommander> *cue
<NCommander> bah
<ogra> how about the rest of the ftbfs list :)
<NCommander> lack of coffee upsets me :-(
<janimo> Qt celebration FTFY
<NCommander> ogra: looked at kdebindings
<ogra> awesome !
<NCommander> Looks like the CMakeLists.txt file is bugging up on ARM which causes the second failure, or a binding is out of whack
<NCommander> Haven't had a lot of time to look at it, but its next my list, which should clear the rest ofARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
<NCommander> ...
<NCommander> ahem
<NCommander> *clear the rest of KDE
<janimo> NCommander, that should be mostly give-backs right?
<NCommander> janimo: one hopes
<janimo> on my part, small progress again on two haskell packages. Most time was Qt-debugging
<ogra> yeah, it stole a lot of time
<ogra> awesome work from you two !!!!
<rsalveti> yup, nice work
<davidm> NCommander, did you see the GCC4.5 bug has a patch?
<NCommander> Linaro is handling with the toolchain regression which is the underlying cause of the qt breakage. I'll be syncing up regularly with the linaro folks on that
<NCommander> davidm: no. my inbox has 490 unread threads :-(
<davidm> Looks like it's fixed
<janimo> we should tackle banshee next, with renewed confidence and sharpened debugging skills
<ogra> haha
<davidm> they have a root cause and a patch
<ogra> the eternal banshee bug
<NCommander> janimo: statements like that always lead to weird dreams and a desire to slit my wrists
<davidm> is that not the eternal mono bug?
<janimo> NCommander, that is why  I brought it up :P
<ogra> yeah, or that
<ogra> getting banshee working would be really noce though
<ogra> *nice
<janimo> likely mono. Mono team says no mono 2.8 in natty so we stick with 2.6 . 2.8 has arm fixes
<NCommander> janimo: your welcome to work on mono. I warn you that staring into the untempered schism that is mono's codebase will drive most mortals insane
<ogra> i think much of the future featuresets in ubuntu use banshee features
<janimo> but not easy to locate, may be side effects of rewrites done in the 2.8 cycle
<ogra> whats the reason to hold back 2.8 ?
<NCommander> janimo: might want to try 2.8, and see if it works. Not holding my breath, but maybe we'll get lucky
<ogra> was it not released upstream yet ?
<janimo> NCommander, I had started on looking at the test cases a month or so ago, we need to sync up
<janimo> ogra, lack of manpower
<janimo> on part of the debian-mono team
<ogra> hmm
<janimo> as it is a large transition apparently
<ogra> and there is no chance to pull it into ubuntu first i guess
<janimo> talked to directhex a few weeks ago
<ogra> ahead of debian
<janimo> ogra, I am fine with debugging mono, but packaging the whole CIL ecosystem gives me the willies
<ogra> heh
<persia> Not a lot of point: the CLI/Mono folk are fairly closely integrated between Debian and Ubuntu
<ogra> we can give that to NCommander dont worry
<janimo> I think it is a large task if it is not done by now
<janimo> I thin 2.8 is months old
 * ogra giggles evil
<NCommander> ogra: oh come on. I have a one evil bug per cycle. No fair giving me a second one
<NCommander> :-P
<davidm> running low on time folks
<NCommander> indeed
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<ogra> they buuld
<ogra> *build
<NCommander> and spin
<ogra> nothing to report ...
<ogra> ..
<GrueMaster> What's the status on the minimal images?
<NCommander> as soon as unity-2d is in main, ogra or I will adjust the seeds and unseed UNE-2D
<ogra> oh, right
<janimo> GrueMaster, no progress yet
<janimo> GrueMaster, next up
<NCommander> [topic] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<janimo> I'll start asking for merges
<ogra> foo
<davidm> ogra, what are the odds of having Unity 2D as default in image by next Thursday?
<NCommander> bah
<ogra> davidm, i planned end of this week (as i said in the report above)
<ogra> (mentioned it at unity-2d topic)
<davidm> slid past me, sorry
<ogra> we need two symbols files and an automatic bug assignee
<ogra> they they are ready for main
<davidm> I'm off to Scale and TI will be there so I'm going to carry some SD cards for them to use
<ogra> (that were the MIR team requests)
<ogra> note that there are bugs with the dash atm
<NCommander> ogra: do you want me to do any symbol file work?
<ogra> (expected ones)
<ogra> they will go away with 3.4
<ogra> NCommander, well, if you like to add the files to the bugs that would help
<NCommander> ogra: ah
<NCommander> ogra: I could just commit and upload them :-P
<ogra> NCommander, but to trunk please with a review from Kaleo
<ogra> NCommander, i gave you the bug numbers yesterday i think
<ogra> or do you need them again
<NCommander> ogra: probably have them in my logs
<rsalveti> #ubuntu-arm then
<ogra> anyway, lets close and move to -arm
<NCommander> I don't think we have anything else
<NCommander> going once
<NCommander> twice
<NCommander> three times
<NCommander> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:00.
<rsalveti> NCommander: and thanks for sending the meeting notice more than 24 hours before the meeting :-)
 * charlie-tca waves at the crowd
 * micahg waves
 * pleia2 waves
<mr_pouit> \o
<charlie-tca> Let's do this then :-)
<charlie-tca> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 13:03. The chair is charlie-tca.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<charlie-tca> The full meeting agenda is available at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Old business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Old business
<charlie-tca> The old business at this time is the Xubuntu Marketing Plans. We still need to do the wiki page for it.
<charlie-tca> anybody got time to put a page together, along with the know how to do it so it makes sense?
<knome> there is some drafting done at http://wiki.knome.fi/xubuntu:marketing
<knome> but that's definitely not final or 100% sensible
<charlie-tca> It's a start though! Thanks
<knome> no problem
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Team updates - Team Leads
<MootBot> New Topic:  Team updates - Team Leads
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Packaging & Development
<MootBot> New Topic:  Packaging & Development
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: your turn today
<mr_pouit> yep
 * knome sings: if i could tuuurn back time...
<mr_pouit> A few syncs/merges from debian experimental (now that squeeze is released, xfce 4.8 is being uploaded)
<beardygnome> hi all
<mr_pouit> some bugfixes on xubuntu-default-settings, and a few patches submitted upstream to fix some minor issues
<mr_pouit> I guess that's all
<charlie-tca> thank you, mr_pouit. Any questions for Packaging and Development?
<cody-somerville> Is there any small tasks or anything that I could take on?
<micahg> o/
<knome> when is the deadline for any updates?
<micahg> just one comment
<knome> (the final deadline)
<micahg> I was trying to get gmusicbrowser updated in Debian, but my git foo isn't great and bzr-git was failing, will give it another try this sunday
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: what is the final freeze for updating stuff?
<cody-somerville> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyReleaseSchedule
<knome> micahg, we can provide something easier, if you feel it's impossible to git/bzr ;)
<mr_pouit> Feb 24th for non-bugfix
<knome> two weeks then
<micahg> knome: no, everyone else can make it work, I just need to learn how to as well :)
<knome> is xfburn default?
<knome> micahg, okay ;)
<knome> micahg, feel free to join #shimmer and ask for help, if needed
<charlie-tca> yes, xfburn is the default for natty
<knome> good
<knome> what about cd rippeR?
<knome> sound-juicer isn't working with most of my discs anymore.
<knome> (and i do have lot of material to test with)
<charlie-tca> cody-somerville: can you move the xubuntu marketing and xubuntu publicity to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu?
<charlie-tca> I would like to keep things xubuntu-related on our wiki.
<cody-somerville> charlie-tca, Move it from where? Are you referring to the wikipages on wiki.knome.fi?
<knome> charlie-tca, sorry for creating the page in my wiki, i was planning on developing that a bit further before releasing it to public
<charlie-tca> yes, cody-somerville. We have a page over there now for articles and blog reviews for natty, as well as the marketing pages
<charlie-tca> knome: no problem. I am just trying to keep the xubuntu stuff in one place as much as possible
<ochosi> hi everyone
<ochosi> sry i'm late
<ochosi> did i miss anything important? :)
<charlie-tca> not yet
<ochosi> k
<knome> charlie-tca, i understand. please do also understand that we try to keep anything we work on same place, which is pretty my wiki for now; most of the pages there relate/are stuff that *we* are going to work on
<ochosi> arr, please let's all continue this discussion in one place
<charlie-tca> Yup, that's why I never ask to move the stuff that might not be directly xubuntu connected.
<ochosi> ok, so we're talking about the wiki
<charlie-tca> If they are not relative to Xubuntu, let's leave them on knome's wiki. However, if we are telling people to refer to them, they need to be on the Xubuntu wiki.
<ochosi> so from the nodes in "xubuntu related", which ones would you like to move?
<charlie-tca> Is anyone else going to work on them, knome?
<knome> charlie-tca, the stuff that is on our wiki - not really
<knome> charlie-tca, if it is a process where others also take part, then it's of course in the ubuntu wiki
<charlie-tca> If they are strictly a shimmer project, then yes, they stay on your wiki. If they are something the rest of xubuntu needs/ works with, they should be on the Xubuntu wiki.
<mr_pouit> maybe it's not that important, and could be handled some time else (i.e. not before the meeting)
<charlie-tca> all right, let's move on then
<charlie-tca> cody-somerville: we will leave the marketing alone for now
<cody-somerville> Okay.
<charlie-tca> I think that was just to say it got started.
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Bug Triage & Testing
<MootBot> New Topic:  Bug Triage & Testing
<charlie-tca> We tested and released Natty Narwhal Alpha2!
<charlie-tca> Great job, and many thanks to everybody that helped
<charlie-tca> We are seeing bugs in Xfce 4.8, and the stacktraces are not complete. Hopefully, we can try to find what is corrupting the traces?
<charlie-tca> OTOH, if you are running Natty, it is really nice!
 * ochosi is running natty now, the only downside is the lack of nvidia-current. other than that it's really great
<charlie-tca> any questions or comments on bugs and testing?
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Artwork
<MootBot> New Topic:  Artwork
<charlie-tca> Let's give ochosi the floor here
<charlie-tca> ochosi: update?
<ochosi> mkay, i've been working pretty hard lately to get to grips with the latest "great invention" of ubuntu, i.e. adding the resize-grip to every window
<mark76> :/
<ochosi> since our resize grip wasn't very visible until now, i tried to make it a) more visible and b) nicer looking
<ochosi> it's all in the greybird mercurial repo already, so feel free to test it and give feedback
<ochosi> mr_pouit fixed the bug in xfdesktop and also helped me today to figure out the last remaining issues with the xfce-panel plugins
<ochosi> i'll try to fix them for the next release
<ochosi> other than that, the xfwm theme is almost complete (only the stick-buttons are missing) and xfce4-notifyd theming is going well
<ochosi> what we still need is an overhaul of the menu button-icon, that could really look nicer i think
<ochosi> and we should settle on default launchers for the launcher-panel, but that's probably a different topic
<knome> (any ideas are welcome...)
<ochosi> yeah, about the menu-button: currently i was thinking of lubuntu's menu button, that's rather okayish
<beardygnome> what's the current icon, the xubuntu logo?
<knome> beardygnome, yes
<ochosi> the blue is a bit harsh imo
<beardygnome> it's it good to keep that for the menu then?
<knome> if the menu icon was like the lubuntu menu icon, we wouldn't need the text for the menu at all
<beardygnome> what's the lubuntu one?
<charlie-tca> As one who is not familiar with the different distros menus, and icons, I have no idea what that looks like
<mark76> The lubuntu one is an abstraxct bird
<mark76> abstract
<charlie-tca> and how does that say menu?
<ochosi> lubuntu: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Artwork/Incoming/Natty/Ozone?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=ozone_menu_view.png
<mark76> In much the same way a cute little mouse says "menu" :)
<knome> mark76, we currently do have the text "Applications" though
<ochosi> mark76: well no, it's still kinda the logo (but yes, if you want to call the logo an abstract bird then i guess you're right :) )
<knome> charlie-tca, much in the same way that a fox embracing a planet says "web-browser"
<charlie-tca> Actually, in natty, we do not have text
<charlie-tca> We have the mouse, and no words
<ochosi> yep, that's true
<knome> okay, i didn't know that.
<beardygnome> why has the text gone?
<knome> anyway, i don't think a stylised menu-button (like the lubuntu menu button) does say "menu" any less than the logo
<charlie-tca> Which is at least as blurry as ubuntu using a logo and lubuntu using a logo. It is hard to determine that is the menu
<mark76> How about the word Menu shaped like a mouse?
<ochosi> we can also just add a button saying "Apps" like gnome3 does
<ochosi> i wouldn't mind that
<charlie-tca> However, when you get used to it, it works
<ochosi> mark76: in 24x24px ?
<mark76> Heh. I never said it was a good idea
<knome> windows 7: http://origin.arstechnica.com/images/windows7/Jump%20Lists.png
<knome> doesn't say menu
<knome> is pretty much the same style as lubuntu
<knome> it stands out from the other icons
<cody-somerville> Because the application menu is in the top left corner instead of the bottom left, I think the text gives an extra clue for new users
<beardygnome> imo, the menu button should be the distro logo
<ochosi> cody-somerville: but it always was in the left top corner..?
<knome> it can be the distro logo, but in a more stylised way.
<ochosi> beardygnome: yeah, but it doesn't have to be the same colors
<beardygnome> that's what seems to be the standard for other ubuntu / ubuntu-derivative distros
<beardygnome> true
<knome> nobody is saying we should get rid of the logo
<mark76> Are you changing the logo colours to fit in with the new grey colour scheme?
<cody-somerville> Yes. So existing users will probably figure it out no problem but new users from Windows will probably wonder where the start menu is and have an extra hard time finding it without the label.
<mr_pouit> and a text requires translations, which are a pain to manage
<beardygnome> why did we get rid of the text?
<charlie-tca> If the logo is what the distribution has an official logo, I think it works. Windows no longer gives any words, either, do they?
<Sysi-> lubuntu logo looks really cool but it's lxde logo, and does it work with other gtk themes?
<maco> charlie-tca: correct, just a window
<charlie-tca> I won't have the lubuntu logo. Sorry
<charlie-tca> That is not us
<knome> errr
<knome> HALT
<knome> we are keeping the xubuntu logo
<knome> we are restyling the xubuntu logo
<ochosi> live screenshot so that you can all see what it *could* look like (the logo is not final) http://imagebin.org/137243
<charlie-tca> Okay
<cody-somerville> Aww... I really like the new one in maverick.
<maco> charlie-tca: kubuntu just has a kde symbol, no text, but the fact that we have the same corner in use helps out there
<mark76> How about putting the menu button on the bottom panel if you're concerned about Windows users being able to locate it?
<charlie-tca> let's put some images together and see what they look like then.
<Sysi-> if we're removing text i think icon should be wider
<knome> ochosi, wow, that looks just like something in the toiler today
<knome> *toilet
<maco> ochosi: the fact that there's a windows start menu there too confused me :P
<ochosi> sry
<cody-somerville> knome, Ouch. Thats mean! :P
<knome> cody-somerville, not really. that isn't really attractive in any way :P
<ochosi> yeah, i mean this was a one-minute monochromization
<charlie-tca> please!
<knome> ..and knowing ochosi i know he won't be hurt ;)
<ochosi> hehe
<charlie-tca> let's put together a choice of images, without the windows crap involved and look at this next week
<ochosi> +1
<mark76> BRB
<beardygnome> i like it, but i think that we should have some text, otherwise it won't stand out to new users
<charlie-tca> ochosi: will you take an action item on it?
<Sysi-> just tiny distro logo can be hard to connect with idea of menu
<ochosi> charlie-tca: sure, how does it work? :)
<charlie-tca> [ACTION] ochosi and knome will put together some logo designs to be discussed as the menu icon
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ochosi and knome will put together some logo designs to be discussed as the menu icon
<charlie-tca> like that
<knome> hey! i wasn't asked! ;)
<charlie-tca> knome: sorry, I assumed again. Bad mistake on my part?
<ochosi> charlie-tca: k, thanks :)
<knome> Sysi-, like in windows, ubuntu, lubuntu, kubuntu and mac?
<knome> charlie-tca, no ;)
<knome> charlie-tca, just joking
<charlie-tca> and yes, I hate that assume thing
<charlie-tca> Any other questions for artwork?
<ochosi> k, may i continue with other small artwork updates?
<ochosi> :)
<charlie-tca> please do, ochosi
<ochosi> you know i could go on with this *forever* :D
<ochosi> no, really there is also chromium theming now
<knome> (afk)
<Sysi-> knome: windows logo is huge, mac don't have same kind of menu, ubuntu has text afaik, but i think it works in kubuntu (pretty big there too)
<charlie-tca> back on topic, now, please
<ochosi> i worked on that quite a while ago, but it has finally landed in natty: http://wiki.knome.fi/_detail/shimmer:chromium_style.png?id=shimmer%3Agreybird_chromium
<ochosi> so i hope this will please all those users that moaned that chromium wasn't well integrated :)
<pleia2> cool
<ochosi> one more thing i wanted to show you is generic app icons
<ochosi> we discussed that in a previous meeting
<ochosi> this time i put together a small portfolio to show you what i was talking about
<ochosi> (hm, wait, not an official meeting, i think it was just some discussion in #xubuntu-devel)
<ochosi> http://wiki.knome.fi/xubuntu:generic_app_icons
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://wiki.knome.fi/xubuntu:generic_app_icons
<mark76> is this the xubuntu meeting?
<ochosi> mark76: yes
<mark76> K
<mark76> Does Xubuntu have to imitate the Gnome 2 panels style?
<charlie-tca> mark76: no
<ochosi> the idea is to refrain from branding and to give users the idea that they're using the "web-browser" instead of ff
<ochosi> the other thing you can see there is a proposal for an appfinder logo
<charlie-tca> ochosi: there are no icons for browser and mail?
<beardygnome> i'm not sure that "unbranding" is a good idea
 * micahg agrees with that
<ochosi> currently in elementary (our default icon theme) it's the same as catfish, which has a totally different funciton
<mr_pouit> then, in this case, instead of putting firefox, thunderbird and xfce4-terminal in the panel, we put the exo wrappers
<ochosi> yep, that would be the feature i'm talking about
<ochosi> it's not about unbranding the whole app
<ochosi> it's about unbranding them in the default launchers
<ochosi> and making the default launchers look more "default"
<charlie-tca> I could see a generic browser icon, not changing firefox at all. It means whatever browser you use, the menu and launcher stayed with a "browser" icon
<micahg> launchers only, not menus, right?
<beardygnome> but the launcher is the first place people look for the app
<charlie-tca> launchers should match the menu, to avoid confusion
<beardygnome> so if i'm a new user to xubuntu and i want to get on the web, i'm going to look for the ff launcher
<charlie-tca> what if the browser becomes midori?
<ochosi> beardygnome: so what if chromium were the default browser?
<Sysi-> btw, could we create browser selection with xdg-open? i've seen it in fedora
<mark76> I have an internet launcher with web browser, email and IM clients in it. Is that an exo wrapper?
<micahg> +1 for launcher only changes, -1 if the menus change as well
<charlie-tca> you look for the browser icon, not a specific app
<ochosi> i'm all with micahg here
<beardygnome> i see your point, but i personally don't like it
<knome> beardygnome, we can't assume people think that internet == ff
<beardygnome> true
<charlie-tca> Then you keep the menu icon. It confuses to see one icon in the menu and another in the launcher
<Sysi-> people think IE == internet..
<micahg> I'll also assume we still have tooltips?
<mr_pouit> (the menu won't change, these .desktop are only wrappers calling preferred applications set in exo)
<beardygnome> +1 for keeping them ion sync
<beardygnome> *in
<knome> mr_pouit, those .desktop files can be in the menu as well, right?
<mr_pouit> knome: yes, but they are hidden in the xubuntu menu for the moment
<micahg> Decoupling the launchers makes for a consistent UI when default apps change, so this seems to make sense
<knome> so, you can see the unbranded icon both as launcher and in the menu
<beardygnome> i think that the help document should state that the browser is (whatever) and can be found (wherever)
<charlie-tca> Let's vote on using a generic icon in the launcher only?
<ochosi> ok
<beardygnome> yep
<charlie-tca> [VOTE] This is to determine use of a generic icon in the launchers, while keeping the brand icon in the menu
<MootBot> Please vote on:  This is to determine use of a generic icon in the launchers, while keeping the brand icon in the menu.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<mr_pouit> knome: but in the menu it's not nice, because you have both "firefox web browser" and "web browser", same for mail, terminal, and file manager (kind of ugly)
<charlie-tca> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from charlie-tca. 0 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
<ochosi> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from ochosi. 1 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 0
<micahg> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from micahg. 2 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<mr_pouit> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from mr_pouit. 3 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<knome> +1
<beardygnome> -1
<MootBot> +1 received from knome. 4 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<MootBot> -1 received from beardygnome. 4 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<knome> mr_pouit, what if you create a submenu 'default applications' or so for them?
<knome> mr_pouit, or make them appear in the menu outside the submenus
<mr_pouit> knome: yeah, that's what the default upstream menu does (outside, at the top)
<knome> mr_pouit, like software conter
<charlie-tca> yeah, too many menu entries is not good either
<knome> *center
<charlie-tca> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 2 against. 0 abstained. Total: 2
<beardygnome> would i be able to get the branded icons back as launchers?
<charlie-tca> ochosi: try it then
<ochosi> i agree with mr_pouit that duplicating the entries looks ugly, but maybe it would be a compromise
<ochosi> beardygnome: you can change that panel with 1click anyway
<charlie-tca> yes, you can change the icons in the launcher properties
<knome> charlie-tca, just a question about the vote
<charlie-tca> go ahead, Knightlust
<charlie-tca> knome
<knome> charlie-tca, first we vote about something, then we can 'try' it. isn't it decided now?
<mr_pouit> beardygnome: remove the launchers, and add new launchers for firefox and thunderbird, you can even drag and drop from the menu ;)
<ochosi> beardygnome: you can even change the icon for default browser to ff if you like ;)
<charlie-tca> knome: yes, and if we decide when we do it that we really don't like, we tried it, right?
<charlie-tca> ochosi: make the change
<ochosi> k, will do charlie-tca
<beardygnome> how many apps are we talking about?
<charlie-tca> The apps in the launcher panel in natty, 8-10 apps, I believe are what we have
<knome> charlie-tca, just wanted to point it out. i don't think the vote has much weight if it only lets people try things:)
<ochosi> beardygnome: those that can have a default value
<ochosi> ok, one more thing before i'm done with artwork
<beardygnome> i don't think we should many
<beardygnome> just browser and email
<ochosi> [ACTION] ochosi and mr_pouit will change panel launchers to generic icons
<charlie-tca> knome: we are not that grammatically correct here, I guess. but your point is noted
<beardygnome> and appfinder / catfish, cos that's just confusing
<mr_pouit> the exo wrappers only concern 4 apps (and only 3 of them are in the panel)
<knome> charlie-tca, thanks. the devil is in the details... :)
<charlie-tca> [ACTION] ochosi and mr_pouit will change panel launchers to generic icons
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ochosi and mr_pouit will change panel launchers to generic icons
<ochosi> the last thing i'd like to ask you about is whether any of you have opinions on the three appfinder iterations i made
<ochosi> (you can see them on the page i linked to before about generic icons)
<beardygnome> i like the third one best
<charlie-tca> I like the third one
<beardygnome> i think it makes the most sense
<charlie-tca> and I don't know why, either.
<knome> need to go now. on any votes that might raise up, i give my voice for ochosi :)
<knome> ->
<ochosi> the only issue with the issue with the third one is that it might be confusing with the ubuntu software center, no?
<charlie-tca> Thanks for helping, knome
<beardygnome> that precisely why i like it
<mark76> If you hover over the Xubuntu menu icon a tooltip saying "Applications menu" pops up
<charlie-tca> mark76: is that in natty?
<beardygnome> i think it make it look like you are searching for software
<mark76> Yeah
<beardygnome> *makes
<charlie-tca> that works then
<ochosi> beardygnome: ok, i'll try to work on that one then
<charlie-tca> Any questions for ochosi ?
<ochosi> about the appfinder: i'll try to get the logo upstream to elementary, so if i don't manage to get the third one in, don't hit me :)
<beardygnome> ochosi: work on it? looks fine to me :)
<ochosi> beardygnome: has to be svg and all sizes, so yes, work :)
<beardygnome> ochosi: np
<charlie-tca> Thanks for all the hard work, ochosi. You are doing great!
<mark76> Well, I say Natty. Actually I just installed a ppa for 4.8 in maverick
<ochosi> charlie-tca: thanks, and no problem
<charlie-tca> mark76: unofficial then. It might not be what is actually in Natty, since we never backported any of the changes
<mark76> It's possible
<ochosi> but yes, the menu-tooltip is the same in natty
<charlie-tca> and let's get the website updates in.
<beardygnome> charlie-tca: if we have dropped the word "Applications" from the menu, we need to update the docs again
<charlie-tca> [TOPCI] Website & Marketing
<charlie-tca> yup, beardygnome, we will
<charlie-tca> pleia2: floor is yours
<pleia2> oh good
<beardygnome> charlie-tca: the bot didn't pick that last command up
<pleia2> so a couple weeks ago knome put together some drafts for the site
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Website & Marketing
<pleia2> then I took out my crayons and ruined them with stuff I wanted on them
<MootBot> New Topic:  Website & Marketing
<pleia2> and we came up with this draft
<pleia2> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/xubuntu1104c.png
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/xubuntu1104c.png
<pleia2> the idea is to go with the new branding, and in general make the intro page simple and clean
<beardygnome> looks great!
<micahg> +1
<ochosi> maybe the bg-color is a bit too blue for me, but the layout is yummy!
<charlie-tca> xubuntu should be a small X
<charlie-tca> but it looks really nice
<mark76> Hmm. Should the mouse still have a bluebird background?
<pleia2> good question, maybe we do want to lean more toward the grey
<mark76> Or black :)
<ochosi> mark76: it's in fact the other way round, bluebird leaned towards the logo
<charlie-tca> not black or grey, it should come from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Artwork
<charlie-tca> the logo is not up for change from the official logo
<beardygnome> so we should keep the official logo for the menu as well?
<pleia2> so I think we're talking strictly about the background then (not the mouse)
<beardygnome> rather than the one we saw before?
<ochosi> beardygnome: that subject was artwork, now we're talking website
<ochosi> pleia2: +1
<charlie-tca> beardygnome: ochosi will put some symbols together for us for next meeting
<beardygnome> logo's the logo wherever it is
<pleia2> I'll ask knome to fix the capital x in xubuntu and toss up some other samples with different background colors :)
<pleia2> any other thoughts?
<ochosi> maybe more than just two headlines as news feed?
<ochosi> or how is that planned?
<charlie-tca> I like it, I think
<pleia2> ochosi: yeah, maybe we can expand it to 4 or 5
<pleia2> it was also suggested that we make the news items more interesting
<ochosi> yeah, i just wanted to get onto that
<charlie-tca> Are we staying in Drupal or moving to wordpress?
<pleia2> rather than just "alpha $blah released" if the news (marketing?) folks could get more creative with something like "alpha 3 released - now with shiny chromium theme!"
<mark76> :|
<pleia2> charlie-tca: honestly I'd like to move to wordpress, but that's a major project and I'm not sure it's even possible on canonical-hosted servers at this point
 * ochosi loves wordpress
<charlie-tca> okay
<pleia2> the plan for now is to just stick this in a drupal theme
<charlie-tca> I have to get you and vinnl together on the new releases. He writes them for us
<pleia2> ok, thanks :)
<ochosi> hm, news-aggregation from personal dev-blogs?
<pleia2> I think the idea of a team planet has been floated too
<charlie-tca> I have to wonder what that will turn out to be, besides something taking up space.
<pleia2> yeah, I was unconvinced
<charlie-tca> We don't blog well as team members
<ochosi> maybe because there's no planet :)
<charlie-tca> I can't even get a blog a week out of all of us
 * micahg needs to start a blog :-/
<charlie-tca> ochosi: you have a blog?
<pleia2> maybe we could get some dev guest posts on the site itself rather than aggregation of personal blogs?
 * ochosi wouldn't mind blogging about his artwork stuff
<charlie-tca> we have the planet ubuntu already
<ochosi> charlie-tca: i do, but since it's not really aggregated anywhere else than in the shimmer-sidebar (not very visible), i kinda stopped again
<charlie-tca> pleia2 blogs often, the rest is really hit and miss
<pleia2> so instead of "alpha 1 released" "alpha 2 released" we end up with "alpha 1 released" "hooray for new logo!" "alpha 2 released" "we have 4.8 now!"
<pleia2> all different posts written by team members
<charlie-tca> and throw them into news releases or a blog?
<ochosi> maybe the news releases
<charlie-tca> hm, what if we put together a schedule, and tried to get someone to write an article every week to release to UNW for now?
<charlie-tca> s/UNW/UWN
<pleia2> just keep them in the standard news releases
<charlie-tca> That would work
<pleia2> we'll get drupal logins to authors
<charlie-tca> or forward them to vinnl to put in, even
<charlie-tca> Who wants to write an article for next week?
<ochosi> topic?
<pleia2> ochosi: art? :)
<charlie-tca> artwork in Natty!
<ochosi> touchÃ©
<ochosi> what day is the deadline?
<charlie-tca> Wednesday
<ochosi> hmm, okay, then i'll have to finish it till sunday, i'm off sunday to wednesday
<ochosi> i guess that could work
<ochosi> if you don't like it you can always write a new one till wednesday
<ochosi> how long can it be/does it have to be?
<charlie-tca> [ACTION] ochosi to write an article about artwork due for news on website Wednesday
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ochosi to write an article about artwork due for news on website Wednesday
<charlie-tca> not too long, I do all my writing in gedit, so I figure about 150 lines, normally
<charlie-tca> Okay, who wants the second week?
<pleia2> I think even if it's less than weekly it's ok, just something every few weeks to break up the "released $x" posts
<pleia2> make it more interesting :)
<charlie-tca> okay, I guess ;-(
<ochosi> charlie-tca: hm, 150 lines in gedit depend on your screen-width :)
<charlie-tca> oh, 72 characters per line, of course, for me. I don't really know, though.
<charlie-tca> and sometimes that is a double-space being counted, too
<pleia2> that's pretty much it for the website from me, I'll ask knome to draft some other drafts based on the feedback
<ochosi> charlie-tca: ok
<charlie-tca> Thank you, pleia2. It really is looking good!
<charlie-tca> ochosi: more or less is fine, too
<charlie-tca> sometimes it is about 5 lines, I think
<ochosi> 150 lines is ok for me
<charlie-tca> hm, running way late.
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Updates for Xubuntu 10.04.2
<MootBot> New Topic:  Updates for Xubuntu 10.04.2
<charlie-tca> micahg: anything?
<micahg> looks like it will not have Firefox 3.6.14 and Thunderbird 3.1.8 since they've been pushed back until MOnday
<charlie-tca> We are doing ISO testing next week for Lucid Lynx 10.04.2
<charlie-tca> Everybody is invited to help with the image tests.
<beardygnome> what's the process for testing?
<pleia2> someone should blog about image testing! ;)
<charlie-tca> download the image, the install either in a virtual machine or hardware, check if things that changed work
<ochosi> pleia2: +1 :D
<charlie-tca> Good topic!
<charlie-tca> We try to run each application at least once during the testing, but that won't always happen
<charlie-tca> I am going to jump to other business now, since we are very late
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Any Other Business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any Other Business
<charlie-tca> We will have another meeting next week, 19:00 Thursday
<micahg> o/
<charlie-tca> go ahead, micahg
<micahg> thunderbird-locales still needs testing in maverick-proposed if anyone had time
<micahg> done :)
<charlie-tca> Thank you
<charlie-tca> anyone else have anything they would like to discuss?
<charlie-tca> Thank you all for coming to this meeting. The participation is great!
<mark76> I don't think the wallpaper should be grey
<ochosi> mark76: grey?
<charlie-tca> Wallpaper is not decided yet, mark76
<mark76> Yes, grey. It's a colour
<charlie-tca> you might be seeing the xfce defaults
<ochosi> charlie-tca: wallpapers is not a bad subject, we should maybe discuss it next week
<charlie-tca> Natty still uses the same blue as 10.10
<ochosi> or in the meantime in #xubuntu-devel
<charlie-tca> yes, in the channel, I think
<ochosi> k
<Sysi-> (i think i should join there)
<charlie-tca> I think mark76 is seeing the default xfce wallpaper in 4.8
<mark76> Oh, no I hae my own
<mark76> have
<mark76> But I have seen some suggestions for 11.04
<ochosi> mark76: then let's discuss it in #xubuntu-devel
<mark76> K
<mark76> Linky link :)
<charlie-tca> the submissions we have now for wallpapers are at http://www.flickr.com/groups/uawt-7/
<charlie-tca> okay, let's call this to an end, then
<charlie-tca> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 14:38.
<manuotazo> i have a little situation.. what can i do when my internet on the ubuntu 10.10 doesn't work?
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-02-11
 * victorp waves to skaet
<zul> hi
 * skaet waves victorp, zul
<apw> o/
<skaet> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is skaet.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<Daviey> o/
<skaet> hi everyone.  :)
<skaet> Reminder:   please use ".." on separate line when you've finished typing.    If someone wants to comment on the last point, please "o/", so we know to wait.
<pitti> hello
<skaet> Agenda is at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2011-02-11
<skaet> Milestoned bugs for alpha3 can be found https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.milestone=33573.
<skaet> [TOPIC] Natty overview
<MootBot> New Topic:  Natty overview
<skaet> [ACTION] release team needs to revisit release freeze date, and its relation to beta 2.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  release team needs to revisit release freeze date, and its relation to beta 2.
<skaet> just figured I'd get that one out of the way as something that needs to be looked at.  :)
<skaet> reminder that Feature freeze will be coming up on February 24th,  Alpha 3 on March 3rd.
<skaet> any other general release issues that need to get high lighted?
<skaet> ..
<skaet> ok, on to the roundtables..
<skaet> [Topic] QA team update - jibel
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA team update - jibel
<jibel> Hi all!
<jibel>  * Natty Alpha 3 Work Items
<jibel> http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-platform-qa-natty-alpha-3.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-platform-qa-natty-alpha-3.html
<jibel> No work items started yet.
<jibel> Two additional items were carried over from Alpha-2
<jibel> hggdh2 - cloud-server-n-uec-qa - Automate UEC tests setup (image creation, configuration setup)
<jibel> hggdh2 - cloud-server-n-uec-qa - Automate user creation on the UEC tests (depends on euca-add-user/other)
<jibel>  * QA Dashboard
<jibel> http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/qadashboard/qadashboard.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/qadashboard/qadashboard.html
<jibel> Note linux, libreoffice and unity in both the "Last Day" and "Last 7 Days" metrics
<jibel>  * Testing status:
<jibel> Desktop Automated Testing results
<jibel> http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/desktop-testing/natty/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/desktop-testing/natty/
<jibel> 303 tests in classic desktop and 279 in Unity
<jibel> List of bugs found is at the bottom of page.
<jibel> Server Automated Testing results
<jibel> http://204.236.234.12/view/ISO-server-Natty/?
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://204.236.234.12/view/ISO-server-Natty/?
<jibel> 3 failures under investigation by hggdh.
<jibel> ..
<skaet> thanks jibel!   any questions?
<skaet> [Topic] Hardware Certification team update - victorp
<MootBot> New Topic:  Hardware Certification team update - victorp
<victorp> This week we had to skip desktops for the weekly testing, as we were
<victorp> shipping them from Montreal to Lexington.
<victorp> The report can be found, as usual, at:
<victorp> leaks that are causing X to crash:
<victorp> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/714829
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/714829
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 714829 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "Xorg segfaults during LiveCD installation using preseed file" [High,Incomplete]
<victorp> We will provide Bryce the information he's asking for.
<victorp> On servers we got the best coverage to date :-) All the servers
<victorp> scheduled to be certified for 11.04, except one, reported results. We
<victorp> are investigating this one, that seems to be an infrastructure issue.
<victorp> From the ones that reported back, one failed installation, because of a
<victorp> weird memory leak that is causing a failure in grub-installer:
<victorp> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/checkbox-satellite/+bug/716397
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/checkbox-satellite/+bug/716397
<ubottu> 'Error: Could not parse data returned by Ubuntu: HTTP Error 401: Unauthorized\nResponse headers:\n---\nconnection: close\ncontent-length: 21\ncontent-type: text/plain\ndate: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 16:10:05 GMT\nserver: zope.server.http (HTTP)\nstatus: 401\nvia: 1.1 wildcard.launchpad.net\nx-pad: avoid browser bug\nx-powered-by: Zope (www.zope.org), Python (www.python.org)\n---\nResponse body:\n---\nBug 716397 is private\n---\n (https://launchpad.net/bug
<ubottu> 'Error: Could not parse data returned by Ubuntu: HTTP Error 401: Unauthorized\nResponse headers:\n---\ncontent-length: 21\ncontent-type: text/plain\ndate: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 16:10:06 GMT\nserver: zope.server.http (HTTP)\nstatus: 401\nvia: 1.1 wildcard.launchpad.net\nx-powered-by: Zope (www.zope.org), Python (www.python.org)\n---\nResponse body:\n---\nBug 716397 is private\n---\n (https://launchpad.net/bugs/716397)'
<victorp> cjwatson is already on it, and we will provide the information he needs.
<victorp> In other areas:
<victorp> * we are meeting next week to discuss the future of boot metrics
<victorp> * we are suppose to start unity hw compatibility but we haven't got the test suite yet from Unity team.
<victorp> ..
<cjwatson> o/
<cjwatson> er, what?
<victorp> ?
<cjwatson> I'm not on that bug, seeing as I can't read it
<skaet> o/
<victorp> oops - that is the link to the checkbox bug
<victorp> I will send you the right one
<skaet> victorp,  cut/paste error? - not seeing report link.
<cjwatson> are you referring to bug 695842?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 695842 in grub-installer (Ubuntu Maverick) "Cannot install on HP Proliant DL385 G7 - dual RAID controllers" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/695842
<victorp> yes
<cjwatson> there was an out-of-memory there, but it seems to have been transient
<victorp> put the wrong bug ;)
<victorp> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~hwcert/hw-testing/current
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~hwcert/hw-testing/current
<victorp> ^^ weekly report
<cjwatson> the last comment indicates that the grub-installer patch fixed the problem, even though the out-of-memory error was well before grub-installer ran
<cjwatson> so I think that can only usefully be chalked up as unreproducible
<cjwatson> the fix for 695842 is in -proposed queues and will be ready for testing after 10.04.2
<victorp> ok
<skaet> thanks for link. :)
<victorp> skaet - no probs
 * victorp needs to find a better copy/paste way
 * skaet looks around, no hands, going on...
<skaet> thanks victorp
<skaet> [Topic] Security team update - jdstrand
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security team update - jdstrand
<jdstrand> hi
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<jdstrand> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-security.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-security.html
<jdstrand> For the most part, this last week we have been very busy focusing on stable release updates and have also been fixing security issues in natty. We have no milestoned features or bugs for alpha-3.
<jdstrand> In terms of blueprints, I did manage to write and upload aa-disable, which complements aa-enforce and aa-complain for managing apparmor profiles and I wrote some preliminary profiles for telepathy backends. kees has worked on a kernel /proc/net leak patch and has completed updating existing upstart job files with apparmor integration to use the new apparmor-profile-load tool.
<jdstrand> We have started tracking a few bugs from other teams that are of particular interest to us. Specifically bug #344878, bug #712662, bug #714908 and bug #714958.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 344878 in linux (Ubuntu Natty) "file name too long when creating new file (ecryptfs_lookup: lookup_one_len() returned [-36] on lower_dentry)" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/344878
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 712662 in bash (Ubuntu Karmic) "network redirection has been enabled" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/712662
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 714908 in gnome-keyring (Ubuntu Natty) "gnome-keyring reads unsafe SSH keys" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/714908
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 714958 in nautilus (Ubuntu Natty) "desktop should disable automounting when screen is locked" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/714958
<jdstrand> I'm not sure about how to approach these within the context of this meeting, but for now it is fine to simply mention we are watching those.
<jdstrand> wrt 714958 we also filed a related bug #715874 which is apparmor profiles for various thumbnailers. All have been started and are available via bzr (and in the bug), but we have not committed to getting those in before feature freeze as it will require a lot of testing and there are other more pressing issues at the moment.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 715874 in totem (Ubuntu) "gnome thumbnailers should have an apparmor profile" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/715874
<cjwatson> 712662> waiting for doko to return from holiday there
 * jdstrand nods
<jdstrand> ..
<skaet> thanks jdstrand,  appreciate you mentioning the bugs you're watching.
<jdstrand> np :)
 * skaet looks around for o/'s,  nope not seeing any moving on.  :)
<skaet> [Topic] Kernel team update - apw
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel team update - apw
<apw> o/
<apw> Overall status is reported at the first link below.  Burn down for the release milestone is at the second link below.  Burndown for the cycle is at the third link:
<apw> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<apw> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-kernel-team-natty-alpha-3.html
<apw> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-kernel-team.svg
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-kernel-team-natty-alpha-3.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-kernel-team.svg
<apw> The natty-alpha-2 kernel seemed to be holding up pretty well so far.  Since the freeze lifted we have uploaded two kernels with the latest v2.6.38-3.30 (v2.6.38-rc4 based).  These have brought a swathe of fixes for graphics.  Overall we are looking good on longer term tasks with most of the key deliverables complete.  There are few direct deliverabled for natty-alpha-3, we are now tracking mainline and fielding issues as they appear.
<apw> Of the bugs called out on the agenda against the kernel, status is as below:
<apw> #344878 ecryptfs long filename prototype continues to evolve with a second push going to upstream, we will need to make a decision on disabling this shortly;
<apw> #539467 SATA alpm is now disabled in userspace, upstream discussions are ongoing;
<apw> #542660, #600453, and #681877 (all black screen issues) are in various stages of testing, results are a mixed bag;
<apw> #630748 remains waiting on Intel for updated wireless firmware;
<apw> #636091 is looking like a locking issue in USB, possibly to do with the BKL, investigation continues; and
<apw> #702090 looks to be an interaction with vesafb, upstream are saying "don't do that".
<apw> The other bugs seem to be non-kernel packages, status is recorded on our status page where available (first link above).
<apw> ..
<skaet> thanks apw!   appreciate the details on the bugs.
<cjwatson> o/
<skaet> have the the alpha-3 burn tasks been scrubbed?
<apw> skaet, everything pushed out of a2 is in a3, but i suspecd thtats not your question
<skaet> heh,  nup
<skaet> just need to know if the list that's there is complete for summarizing up at this point.
<apw> i think so yes
<cjwatson> 702090> "don't do that" - is that something plymouth needs to do differently?
<skaet> cool thanks!   cjwatson your turn.  :)
<apw> cjwatson, not sure as yet.  i think its more fundamental
<apw> we would need to hold off injecting vesafb until we know that drm isn't coming
<apw> or perhaps stopping plymouth opening it is enough, but definatly
<apw> not open /dev/fb0 before it gets swizzled to drm
<cjwatson> right, that complicated mess
<apw> and thats not a trivial change
<cjwatson> hoping to finally dive into some of that this week
<apw> cjwatson, then perhaps we can sync up when you do, as i think we are aready waiting for "no more devices" which
<apw> might mean we can inject vesafb at that point and avoid this mess
 * cjwatson nods
<apw> ..
<skaet> [Topic] Foundations team update - cjwatson
<MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations team update - cjwatson
<cjwatson> http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-foundations.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-foundations.html
<cjwatson> Still just below the trend line, with half a dozen work items removed this week, but we'll need to accelerate again soon.  We seem to have got pulled into a lot of bug-fixing instead, on the whole.
<cjwatson> Interesting progress this week:
<cjwatson>  - btrfs installs now confirmed to work properly again, with subvolumes set up so that the upgrade tools will be able to do interesting rollback things.
<cjwatson>  - Agreement on Upstart branch maintenance, so the major remaining pieces of work there should start landing soon.
<cjwatson>  - Upstart visualisation and interactive boot work.
<cjwatson>  - Timezone widget discussions with GNOME; looks like much of Ubiquity's widget will be going upstream.
<cjwatson>  - We've been doing some early bootstrapping work on a new ppc64 architecture.  This is still in stage1 bootstrapping but going well so far.
<cjwatson> I've been trying to keep the agenda up to date with bug work.  If you care about anything specific, please ask.
<cjwatson> ..
<skaet> thanks cjwatson,  appreciate you updating the agenda directly.  :)
<skaet> are the a3 tasks accurate at this stage for foundations, or do they still need some scrubbing?
<cjwatson> as far as work items go, I'm afraid this cycle I've largely only been paying any attention at all to the whole-cycle chart.
<cjwatson> I hope that once we have a dedicated manager again, we'll have time to improve this
 * skaet nods
<skaet> thanks, that answers my question.
<cjwatson> on bugs, I think they're OK
<skaet> [Topic] Server team update - zul
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server team update - zul
<zul> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<zul> Hi,
<zul> Work items are a bit behind according to the graph, But alot of things are happening behind the scene include working on awstrial, new openstack snapshot, working on LXC on openstack, and new packages including Handbreak plugin for mysql. Eucalyptus still remains to be a problem in Natty.
<zul> New Bugs this week:
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<zul>  * 590201 - qemu-kvm - OpenSolaris (previously working) no longer boots: kernel panics early
<zul> ...
<skaet> o/
<skaet> any update on the bugs called out in the agenda?  is the status there accurate for them?
<zul> i think so but ill double check right after the meeting
<skaet> thanks.
<skaet> also, is the a3 tasks in its burn down accurate?
<skaet> s/is/are/
<zul> no..i think robbiew still has to go through them
<robbiew> tasks are good
<skaet> :)
<zul> i stand corrected :)
<skaet> thanks zul.  any other questions?
<robbiew> heh...might do minor swizzles..but that's par for the course
<skaet> [Topic] Desktop team update - pitti
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop team update - pitti
<pitti> Blueprint implementation:
<pitti> - On track for entire cycle
<pitti> - Not much progress on alpha-3 yet; called for updating WI status and dropping 'bonus' ones, but not finished cleanup yet
<pitti> - feature development has slowed down a bit, we spent a lot of time doing bug fixing last week
<pitti> General status:
<pitti> - Most annoying compiz bug about invisible windows should be fixed now
<pitti> - python-gobject ABI breakage has been hotfixed, so pygtk apps are running normally again; a better workaround has now landed on the stable pygobject upstream branch
<pitti> RC bugs:
<pitti> - from this week: 5 fixed, 2 fix committed, 2 new on radar
<pitti> - standing out here is bug 637827 which is blocked on Mozilla allowing us to ship the global menu bar extension for Firefox; rest of the bugs are making reasonable progress at this stage
<pitti> - details at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus#rcbugs
<pitti> ..
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 637827 in firefox (Ubuntu Natty) "Firefox and Thunderbird (XUL) menus don't appear in the global menu bar" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/637827
<skaet> thanks pitti!  :)   when o you think the wi status will be updated?
<skaet> s/o/do/
<pitti> chasing people; certainly next week
<skaet> thanks.  :)
 * skaet looking around....
<pitti> we currently don't have a team manager either, so I guess the whip cracking is on me
<skaet> indeed.  :/
<skaet> [Topic] Ubuntu One Team - joshuahoover
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu One Team - joshuahoover
<joshuahoover> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/NattyReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/NattyReleaseStatus
<joshuahoover> details on where we're at with blueprints and releases are in the link above
<joshuahoover> updates on items at risk:
<joshuahoover> 1) u1 shotwell integration is likely not going to happen for natty...we're down a person and the integration with shotwell is going to be harder for us than we originally thought/estimated...i'll have a definitive answer on this by wed. next week
<joshuahoover> 2) syncdaemon resumable uploads should be ready on wed., february 16th ...they were blocked for a couple weeks but we've found a way forward and have made good progress
<joshuahoover> 3) unity integration has started...we've got the API's we need and are now putting in the progress indicator and testing it all out so we're looking good here
<joshuahoover> 4) u1 music store in banshee...we still need to add the ability to tweet about a song and ensure u1 purchases automatically show up like they do in rbox...going to be tight to make it in time for feature freeze...i may be filing freeze exception next week
<joshuahoover> overall, with dropping shotwell integration, we're looking pretty good with the exception of the banshee work
<joshuahoover> and that's about it
<joshuahoover> ..
<skaet> thanks joshuahoover!  appreciate the details.
<skaet> o/
<skaet> is the A3 WI list up to date for your team?
<joshuahoover> skaet: yes, should be :)
<skaet> thanks!  :)
 * skaet has slide making to do today,  hence the questions...
<skaet> [Topic] Kubuntu Team update - Riddell
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kubuntu Team update - Riddell
<Riddell> hi
<Riddell>  * Alpha 2 out, plenty of bugs but nothing worrying for this stage in the cycle
<Riddell>  * libindicate-qt updated for new API
<Riddell>  * Qt now being built with gcc 4.4 to fix issues on ARM
<Riddell>  * various space saving changes mean we have some space on the CDs for language packs now (except PowerPC)
<Riddell>  * kubuntu mobile mostly working again, seeds split into new collection, some change to launchpad needed to update
<Riddell>  * 11 bugs milestoned for alpha 3 http://goo.gl/yGhJd
<Riddell> ..
<skaet> thanks Riddell!   Is the A3 WI list the one I should look at for the summary,  or Kubuntu to do?
<Riddell> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Todo is the one we care about, and the milestoned bugs above
<skaet> thanks.  will reference that then.  :)
<skaet> [Topic] Desktop Experience Team Update - dbarth_
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop Experience Team Update - dbarth_
<dbarth_> hi
<dbarth_> weekly status update at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/NattyReleaseStatus
<dbarth_> hightlights for the week
 * victorp cjwatson this is the bug in our report https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debian-installer/+bug/715871
<dbarth_> for unity shell
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 715871 in debian-installer (Ubuntu) "During our weekly testing in the certification servers, in one of the servers, the installation failed when installing grub2 in one of the servers" [Undecided,New]
<dbarth_> All of our key targets were reached
<dbarth_> The Dash is in this week, a lot of bug fixes allowed the Shell team to land the full Dash experience; the slow scroll is fixed as well
<dbarth_> Progress indicators and counts for the Launcher are there: U1 & FF should soon shine on the new Unity Launcher!
<dbarth_> Keyboard navigation for the launcher
<dbarth_> The invisible windows bug in compiz is still an issue
<dbarth_> however, we've slowed down since the nvidia drivers got broken; it's really hurting the team
<dbarth_> foundations got some nice action for this week as well:
<dbarth_> Sound menu goes into libunity, consolidating new stable APIs
<dbarth_> Calendar integration from EDS
<dbarth_> More appmenu stabilization and fixes
<dbarth_> Thunderbird support for the global menu is in Natty (after Firefox last week, yeah!)
<dbarth_> LibreOffice globalmenu support started this week: aiming for a universe release around natty-beta
<dbarth_> More API docs preparation with the Community team
<dbarth_> last on the qa front, the Bug Pilot program starting to bear fruits
<skaet> ..?
<dbarth_> ...
<dbarth_> (sorry)_
<skaet> thanks dbarth_
<skaet> ;)
<skaet> o/
<cjwatson> victorp: oh, ok, an entirely different one from what I thought then.  Has ara seen my message?  The ball is in her court
<victorp> cjwatson, she is off for the day I will ping her on monday
<victorp> 0/
<victorp> o/
<skaet> the link on your NattyStatus refers to the entire burndown, not just the a3.    Are the WI's targetted to A3 accurate?
<skaet> dbarth_, ^^
<victorp> I had a question in my update before about when will be unity test scripts ready so hw cert can test compatibility. dbarth_ any ideas?
<dbarth_> i've updated them, but we're now getting to the bug level
<pitti> o/
<skaet> thanks dbarth_ .  pitti go ahead
<dbarth_> skaet: let me get back to you on the wi after the meeting
<pitti> dbarth_: how much does current unity development rely on natty libraries/X.org?
<pitti> i. e. woudl it be feasible to do the nvidia development/testing on maverick?
<dbarth_> victorp: they are, but you need to ping lamalex to get them, it's the autopilot/testdrive module
<pitti> or at least installing X.org 1.9 on natty?
<dbarth_> pitti: well, we're running natty has you know
<dbarth_> all of us
<apw> pitti, i wondered if the xorg-retro thingy might be made to work for natty with the older ones in it
<pitti> which is a good thing :) so perhaps natty with older X?
<dbarth_> and we have a lot of nvidia users in the team
<victorp> dbarth_,  thanks
<dbarth_> so if the policy is to break nvidia because they're closed source, then you're breaking 50% of our dev machines...
<apw> heh we're doing that to our users too
<pitti> users> well, we were promised to get a build against current X in time for natty
<pitti> dbarth_: would it help if we wrote a script/wiki page/etc to install 1.9 X.org on current natty and apt-pin it?
<dbarth_> pitti: i fthere is a fallback plan, yes
<pitti> some "wget from lauchpad/dpkg -i/create /etc/apt/preferences kind of thing
<dbarth_> that would really help
<dbarth_> or getting beta drivers earlier from nvidia
<apw> dbarth_, oh have you tried the experimental gallium stuff ?
<pitti> so the experimental nouveau 3D drivers don't work?
<dbarth_> pitti: ted is on this
<pitti> we even have a jockey handler for that these days
<dbarth_> ie, reaching out to the xorg team or helping with a fallback plan
<pitti> ok, cool
<dbarth_> meaning, get in touch with him, so that you don't duplicate efforts
<pitti> *nod*
<dbarth_> i'll mention that on #ayatana
<ogra> does that really help if you need to develop against the recent xorg version though ?
<ogra> (rolling back i mean)
 * ogra has the feeling the feature expectations might be to high if development can really only be done on the closed nvidia drivers instead of i.e. intel
 * skaet notes that we're probably not going to be solving this here
<skaet> time to more on...
<skaet> [Topic] ARM team update - ogra
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM team update - ogra
<ogra> o/
<ogra> Status is at:
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARMTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<ogra> ..
<ogra> Summary:
<ogra>  - 705689 root cause was identified as gcc bug (kudos to janimo and NCommander for awesome tireless debugging work), a patch exists in the linaro gcc branch already but no test with a binary QT package from the archive has happened yet.
<ogra>  - 2.6.38 tree was set up on git.ubuntu.com, a kernel package for OMAP 4 was uploaded to a PPA by the kernel team so we can do tests. A first patchset for getting the display driver is supposed to hit the tree next week.
<ogra>  - WI work is still well going forward, workitems were shuffled around inside the team to get to a better balanced workload, the ARM thin client spec has been dropped.
<ogra>  - QA work for better bug assignment strategy is currently going on
<ogra>  - Work for upgrading bootloaders from commandline has started.
<ogra>  - Last minor changes to the libqtdee and libqtgconf packages pending, once these are done all MIR team requirements for unity-2d should be fulfilled. Packages are to be seeded to the arm images by this weekend.
<ogra> ..
<ogra> Specs:
<ogra> Entire status: http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel.html
<ogra> Milestone: http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel-natty-alpha-3.html
<ogra> Dropped: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-arm-n-arm-thin-clients
<ogra> ..
<ogra> Serious Bugs:
<ogra> bug 705689
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 705689 in qt4-x11 (Ubuntu Natty) "QT applications crash with segfault error on armel when QT is built with gcc 4.5 on natty" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/705689
<ogra> the actual bugfix is waiting for the next gcc upload
<ogra> but seems we have it done :)
<ogra> ..
<skaet> thanks ogra!   good to hear that the gcc bug has been found.
<ogra> yeah, janimo and NCommander really deserve team beer :)
<JamieBennett> \o/
<ogra> and linaro was awesomely fast to add a proper fix ;)
<skaet> :)
<JamieBennett> beers all around ;)
<ogra> :)
<skaet> ogra, the dropped arm-thin-clients,  for alpha3 or entire release?
<ogra> i postponed it to N+1
<skaet> ogra,  thanks!
<ogra> it trivial to implement for me as former ltsp upstream but i'm lacking the time
<ogra> ..
<skaet> [Topic] MOTU team update - ScottK
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU team update - ScottK
<ScottK> Nothing of significance to report.
<ScottK> It'd be nice to have a final decision on Python 2.6/2.7 or 2.7 only for Natty.
<ScottK> ...
<skaet> Thanks ScottK,  what's the blockage on the decision?
<ScottK> skaet: Someone making the decision.
<ScottK> barry had a thread on u-devel recently, but no conclusion/decision AFAIK.
<skaet> saw that thread,  ok will see if I can help get some resolution
<ScottK> BTW, I think 2.7 only would be a bad idea.
<wendar> barry, matthias and I are meeting next week to discuss
<wendar> and, ScottK, I agree with your concerns
<ScottK> Thanks.
<skaet> wendar, you ok with taking an action to make sure a conclusion is posted to u-devel?
<wendar> skaet: yes
<skaet> wendar,  thanks!
<skaet> [ACTION] wendar to post resolution on the Python 2.6/2.7 vs Python 2.7 inclusion in Natty
<MootBot> ACTION received:  wendar to post resolution on the Python 2.6/2.7 vs Python 2.7 inclusion in Natty
<skaet> [Topic] Linaro update - JamieBennett
<MootBot> New Topic:  Linaro update - JamieBennett
<JamieBennett> \o
<JamieBennett> https://wiki.linaro.org/Releases/WeeklyReleaseMeeting/2011-02-10
<JamieBennett> So, we have a few releases this week
<JamieBennett> Linaro GDB 7.2 2011.02 released
<JamieBennett> Linaro GCC 4.4 and 4.5 2011.02 released
<JamieBennett> and Linaro QEMU
<JamieBennett> not sure on whether doko will pick up the toolchain stuff for Ubuntu before FF or not at this stage
<JamieBennett> probably too late but its there
<JamieBennett> Bug wise we are in pretty good shape, nothing really for Ubuntu to worry about
<skaet> ..?
<JamieBennett> Our Alpha-2 gained another platform, Samsung Orion bringing our total to 7 architectures
<JamieBennett> ..
<skaet> Thanks JamieBennett!
<skaet> I'll follow up with doko, when he returns next week, and see what the outlook is.
<skaet> [ACTION] skaet follow up with doko after he returns on Linaro toolchain inclusion.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  skaet follow up with doko after he returns on Linaro toolchain inclusion.
<skaet> any other questions?
 * skaet looks around...
<skaet> [Topic] any other kudos/comments/questions?
<MootBot> New Topic:  any other kudos/comments/questions?
<skaet> going once...
<skaet> twice...
<skaet> thanks everyone!
<skaet> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:13.
<pitti> thanks everyone! and have a nice weekend
<JamieBennett> thanks skaet
<skaet> thanks pitti, JamieBennett, jibel, victorp, jdstrand, cjwatson, apw, zul, pitti, joshuahoover, Riddell, dbarth, ogra, ScottK,  appreciate your prep, and the details.  :)   Have a good weekend.
<ogra> thanks skaet
<jdstrand> skaet: thanks, you too :)
<joshuahoover> thanks skaet!
<jibel> thanks skaet, have a nice week end
<apw> JFo, hey ... can you drop the 'kernel-tracking-bug' bugs from the tag search ... they are no use to the stable team so lets drop them
<JFo> yep, can do
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-02-12
<Yanksrule> !ops i am too gangsta
<ubottu> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<Yanksrule> !ops
<ubottu> Help! Seveas, Hobbsee, LjL, ompaulafk, Keybuk, mdz, sabdfl, janimo, ogra, mdke, dholbach, or jono
<Yanksrule> !ops
<Yanksrule> !staff
<ubottu> hey Christel, Dave2, Gary, KB1JWQ, Levia, Martinp23, SportsChick, VorTechS, jayne, jenda, marienz, nalioth, niko, nhandler, rob, stew or tomaw, I could use a bit of your time :)
<Yanksrule> !ops
<ubottu> Help! Seveas, Hobbsee, LjL, ompaulafk, Keybuk, mdz, sabdfl, janimo, ogra, mdke, dholbach, or jono
<gpc> KB1JWQ: thought I needed you to ban Yanksrul but then remembered I have access here
<UndiFineD> o/
<hajour> o/
<hajour> sorry for being late but i wanted to buy a valentine gift for UndiFineD
<zkriesse> Ubuntu Beginners Wiki FG meeting in 15 minutes woo!
<JackyAlcine> Really? I think I'll stick around for this one.
<zkriesse> jaja
<zkriesse> Just a few more minutes!!!
<johnny77> zkriesse: I'm gonna try to be here. Have the kids so i may be off/on.
<zkriesse> It's fine man
<zkriesse> There are logs
<zkriesse> Ok
<zkriesse> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 13:01. The chair is zkriesse.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<zkriesse> Ok Welcome to the Beginners Team Wiki FG meeting!
<zkriesse> Real quick a show of hands? Who's here etc?
<wmorri> Afternoon zkriesse
<zkriesse> Welcome wmorri !
<johnny77> \o
<zkriesse> 'lo johnny77
<zkriesse> Well, let's get started shall we? People will show up if they care to
<zkriesse> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Docs#Meeting Agenda
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Docs#Meeting Agenda
<zkriesse> That's the agenda for the meeting if you wish to take a peek
<zkriesse> [Topic] Topic 1 - Start of Meeting etc.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Topic 1 - Start of Meeting etc.
<zkriesse> Ok, so already did a show of hands, now I'll just do a quick "Cliff Notes" so to speak on what we'll try to cover
<zkriesse> We've got a few things to talk about, especially because the SoD 2011 Project will be starting soon!
<zkriesse> We're going to talk about the SoD Mainly but we'll have a Q&A for sure
<zkriesse> [topic] Topic 2 - Some new Wiki-ers!
<MootBot> New Topic:  Topic 2 - Some new Wiki-ers!
<wmorri> I guess that would be me a new Wiki-er.
<zkriesse> Ok, so we do have some new wiki guys/gals who will hopefully join the team soon! Welcome to johnny77 and wmorri AndrewMC (Think he's afk) and the two Daniels
<zkriesse> So a big welcome to you guys
<johnny77> Hello everyone.
<wmorri> Thanks!
<zkriesse> Great to have you on the team and can't wait to see what you do
<zkriesse> Ok so before I jump right to the next topic you guys have any questions or anything?
<johnny77> not me.
<wmorri> me neither, at this time
<zkriesse> Kk
<zkriesse> [topic] Topic 3 - Start of the Summer of Documentation 2011 Project WooHoo!!!
<MootBot> New Topic:  Topic 3 - Start of the Summer of Documentation 2011 Project WooHoo!!!
<zkriesse> Ok, so as I mentioned the SoD 2011 Project will be starting soon!
<zkriesse> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Docs/SoD2011
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Docs/SoD2011
<zkriesse> And there's the link for that
<zkriesse> Ok, so what is the SoD?
<zkriesse> SoD or Summer of Documentation is kinda just that
<zkriesse> Last year we did fairly decent on it but not as well as I'd have liked
<zkriesse> The project is mainly a cleanup session spanning from around the start or middle of spring all the way until fall
<zkriesse> We'll go through and look at all the tagged pages on the community docs, hang with the ubuntu doc team and help them on the wiki stuff, and just do WIKI!
<wmorri> So would you like to see people taking on unassigned bugs yet?
<zkriesse> Well what bugs do you mean? The ones in the SoD Launchpad page?
<wmorri> Yes
<wmorri> [link]https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-beginners-wiki-sod/+bug/606105
<MootBot> LINK received: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-beginners-wiki-sod/+bug/606105
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 606105 in Summer of Documentation "Internet Connection Sharing Cleanup" [Medium,Incomplete]
<zkriesse> wmorri: Then by all means, YES!!!
<wmorri> Okay
<zkriesse> All I ask is that if you wish to take on a bug or start a new one that you can effectively edit and complete the page...I.E. you know at least a moderate knowledge of what the page is attempting to provide help on
<wmorri> That makes sense
<zkriesse> Other than that, just work on it and let me know if you need help!
<wmorri> Okay I will start to look at the wiki page then.
<zkriesse> Sweet
<zkriesse> Also, on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Docs/SoD2011 after you do a wiki page/complete it add it to the table on that page
<zkriesse> Wanted to make sure that was known
<wmorri> Okay
<zkriesse> Other than that I usually don't have too much to be a sticker about
<zkriesse> Other than if you have a question about a page PLEASE talk to me
<wmorri> are you going to make a page for WooHoo, as there isn't one yet?
<zkriesse> WooHoo?
<zkriesse> WooHoo is excitement
<zkriesse> Not a page
<zkriesse> Like a cheer
<wmorri> [link]https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WooHoo
<MootBot> LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WooHoo
<zkriesse> Not a page man
<wmorri> I thought it was just excitement but it is listed as a page
<zkriesse> Just you know like, "Yeehaw!"
<zkriesse> Yeah it does that sometimes on the wiki
<wmorri> oaky
<johnny77> Anyyime there is two or more capital letters in one word it makes it a wiki page, right?
<zkriesse> I think so
<zkriesse> Never really just searched out why
<zkriesse> So that's really it except for
<zkriesse> [Topic] Topic 4 - Ideas/suggestions and Q&A session.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Topic 4 - Ideas/suggestions and Q&A session.
<wmorri> I don't really have anything else
<zkriesse> Due to the extremely small amount of people showing up or NOT showing rather, I kinda don't have much
<zkriesse> So, that's it I guess! If you got questions later well I'm in -wiki
<johnny77> zkriesse: If we run across a page that obviously does not follow the standard, can we report the bug for it to be assigned to someone else?
<zkriesse> johnny77: Well you can but I ask that you ask them first
<zkriesse> Just assigning a bug to someone else is usually not the way to go
<johnny77> zkriesse: I just meant that if I saw something, but had no idea about it.
<zkriesse> Well if you know nothing about the page or what it's trying to teach/help with then don't edit it
<zkriesse> Because that will just cause more conflicts
<johnny77> zkriesse: yes, but can I still submit it as a bug?
<zkriesse> Well of course
<zkriesse> Then mention it and try to get it fixed
<johnny77> zkriesse: I guess I was trying to say if I report a bug, will it always get assigned to me.
<zkriesse> No
<zkriesse> A bug is assigned to nobody by default
<johnny77> ok, I'm good for now. :)
<zkriesse> Ok well if that's it then:
<zkriesse> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:29.
<zkriesse> Thanks all for coming
<johnny77> np
<zkriesse> I'll be in #ubuntu-beginners-wiki if ya need anything later..otherwise I guess that's it!
<zkriesse> Later all
<tsimpson> just a quick note: the IRCC meeting originally scheduled for 20:00 UTC today (now) has been rescheduled for 12:00 UTC tomorrow
<duanedesign> thank you
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-02-13
<jussi> ok, so, are we all here? topyli elky tsimpson?
<topyli> o/
<elky> hi
<tsimpson> |o
<jussi> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 05:59. The chair is jussi.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<topyli> welcome back to the grind elky :)
<jussi> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda
<jussi> No new bugs.
<jussi> [topic] Last meetings action items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Last meetings action items
<tsimpson> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRCCouncil/TeamReports/11/January
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRCCouncil/TeamReports/11/January
<jussi> topyli: [ACTION] topyli to link from guidelines to shell policy
<jussi> been done?
<topyli> done
<jussi> excellent, thats it then.
<jussi> oh, assuming you did the report, which I see ;)
<jussi> Right, so todays agenda is just Matt's one, is ikonia here?
<elky> I pinged him a min ago, he seems detached.
<jussi> Since his item is not really something we can discuss without him, I suggest we pass over it.
<jussi> Also, I think we should remove it for now, he is welcome to add it again if he can make the meeting. Sound good?
<topyli> in fact i would suggest remov... yeah
<jussi> hehe
<jussi> ok, so, anything else anyone has on their mind?
<tsimpson> there is something I just remembered...
<tsimpson> regarding enabling ubottu bug information in support channels
<jussi> oh yes
<jussi> Ive no problem with a trial in #u - seems fine in #k
<tsimpson> it's currently enabled in #kubuntu and #xubuntu (iirc), with rather low traffic
<tsimpson> how long would we trial it in #ubuntu for?
<tsimpson> until the next meeting maybe?
<jussi> tsimpson: sounds good.
<topyli> two weeks is enough
<jussi> right, so a qucik vote?
<elky> We can always pull the plug before the meeting if it's painful.
<topyli> i could do a similar chattiness review again like i did for #k and #x
<jussi> topyli: perfect
<tsimpson> yeah, obviously we'll need to keep an eye on it
<elky> If we need to have a meeting to stop an issue in the channels then there's something wrong.
<topyli> yes if it gets clearly disruptive it should be disabled before the time's up
<jussi> [vote] Put ubottu bug parsing on in #ubuntu for trial until our next meeting.
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Put ubottu bug parsing on in #ubuntu for trial until our next meeting..
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<jussi> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from jussi. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<tsimpson> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from tsimpson. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<knome> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from knome. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<topyli> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from topyli. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<elky> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from elky. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<jussi> knome: just council votes in these meetings ;)
<jussi> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 5
<knome> ;)
<tsimpson> knome: though others are welcome to comment :)
<topyli> we have the option to turn it off if it's disruptive of course
<jussi> topyli: of course.
<tsimpson> jussi: I'll take that action then
<jussi> [action] tsimpson to enable bug parsing in ubottu for #ubuntu
<MootBot> ACTION received:  tsimpson to enable bug parsing in ubottu for #ubuntu
<tsimpson> ooh, I just remembered something else :)
<jussi> [action] topyli to do stats for the trial ubottu period
<MootBot> ACTION received:  topyli to do stats for the trial ubottu period
<topyli> we should announce it on the mailing list so ops can keep an eye on it
<jussi> sure. elky want to do that?
<elky> jussi, im unfamiliar with the k and x process, so probably best topyli does it.
<tsimpson> elky: I think he meant the announcement to the list
<jussi> thats right.
<elky> tsimpson, then it'll be a one-liner of "We are going to enable bug information in #ubuntu." becauase I know nothing else.
<jussi> elky: just need to say we decided to turn it on, watch and see what happens, and itll be reviewed at the nxt meeting
<jussi> with the usual, please tell us if theres an issue.
<jussi> [action] elky to send mail to the -irc list to inform ops about the change.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  elky to send mail to the -irc list to inform ops about the change.
<jussi> anything else from peoples? if not, Ill get the usual post meeting stuff sorted.
<tsimpson> the other thing I remembered is: should #ubuntu- "game" channels be allowed, I think it was niko who asked for wolfenstine(?)
<jussi> tsimpson: wolfy
<jussi> thats a good point.
<elky> It may be a while too. I'm trying to move my mail to gmail and I don't trust it right now.
<topyli> tsimpson: oh yes. i can't see why they should be in the namespace
<topyli> elky: joys of imap upload eh :)
<tsimpson> iirc, he wanted to setup 2 channels, but the issue was if it's allowed or not, and I could not give an answer
<elky> topyli, well more the cleanup when it fails the first time.
<topyli> ah
<topyli> yes iirc the game needs two channels, one for the game and one for chat
<jussi> I think we need to have a policy of somehting along the lines of that we accept channels that are for building or supporting ubuntu in some way.
<elky> Apparently thunderbird doesn't much like being told to delete 40k mails in one hit.
<tsimpson> the general (unwritten) policy that I gathered is that, if it's an LP team we generally allow channel creation
<tsimpson> but that's not such a good policy to have, anyone can create a team
<jussi> I think this needs some more thought - about what channels we accept into the namespace
<tsimpson> and I just thought of another issue when we finish this one :D
<topyli> yep. i joined the ubuntu-smokers team a while back. i haven't yet created a channel though :)
<elky> RFC time?
<topyli> draft needed first
<jussi> I think the best thing is we have a think about this, perhaps jot down some thoughts, and come back to it next time. I can take an action to put down a few points.
<jussi> [action] jussi to put down some thoughts on namespace limits.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  jussi to put down some thoughts on namespace limits.
<topyli> great
<jussi> tsimpson: next?
<tsimpson> dual-cloaks
<jussi>  ahh, I thought we had this discussion? Do we not accept them now?
<tsimpson> we have nothing saying we do/don't
<elky> Is there a written policy about it?
<jussi> right, I know we have given them in the past.
<elky> We seem to be writing policies about every other thought process, why not this one too.
<jussi> I dont have an issue, as long as the second cloak is not a group/name that stands against our CoC or so.
<tsimpson> do we allow do we allow /*/ubuntu.member.*?
<tsimpson> s/do we allow /
<jussi> tsimpson: we have staff with that, though Ive not seen otherwise.
<elky> tsimpson, it would break our member cloak access settings which is less of an issue with staff. We might want to chance our member cloak access settings to cater for that if they become numerous enough.
<tsimpson> I know staff have them, but mostly because *!*@freenode/staff/* need to be on access lists
<tsimpson> I'm wondering if we should just generally allow for anyone who wants it
<tsimpson> (I think we should btw)
<jussi> tsimpson: can you think of any issues from it?
<jussi> Im not against it, Im just trying to see any reasons why not?
<tsimpson> the only thing that would break, ask elky said, is our *!*@ubuntu/member/* channel access
<elky> Which is something we can mitigate.
<tsimpson> but that's not a huge issue, we can always just add *!*@*/ubuntu.member.*
<jussi> I guess thats up to the person if they feel thats something they need.
<elky> I think it's a worthwhile thing.
<jussi> I wonder how that works with staff - do we then need to somehow reserve ubuntu.member from being used in cloaks? (right now we just have ubuntu/member/ )
<jussi> [vote] Allow dual cloaks, with the possibility of */ubuntu.member
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Allow dual cloaks, with the possibility of */ubuntu.member.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<tsimpson> I'm pretty sure it already is reserved, but we can ask
<tsimpson> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from tsimpson. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<jussi> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from jussi. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<elky> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from elky. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<jussi> topyli: ?
<topyli> oh
<topyli> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from topyli. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<elky> One of the main reasons we've never been so enthusiastic about it is because when Nalioth was serving council, he was quite adamantly against it as he thought the cloaks that are handed out freely (and abused) would soil the ubuntu name.
<jussi> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<tsimpson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Cloaks needs updating then
<topyli> was reading scrollback, sorry
<tsimpson> to reflect that there are more that 2 possible cloaks
<jussi> right, so who wants the action for that?
 * tsimpson will
<jussi> [action] tsimpson to change wiki
<MootBot> ACTION received:  tsimpson to change wiki
<jussi> and the email to inform people?
<tsimpson> may as well do that at the same time
<jussi> the email should probably go to the cloaked people at the same time - perhaps send it with the message this group lp feature?
<persia> Please give suggested syntax for replacement masks in the email, to have some standardisation over channels.
<jussi> [action] tsimpson tosend the mail regarding the cloaking change.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  tsimpson tosend the mail regarding the cloaking change.
<tsimpson> persia: I'll need to ask some staff if @*/ubuntu.member.* is reserved (which I think it is)
<jussi> also, someone need to query staff about reserving that - if its not already. topyli, you want that?
<jussi> heh
<tsimpson> I'd guess that is is, as many other groups allow similar things
<persia> tsimpson, Sure.  I just have a few channels to update to reflect it, and would rather use the same string as other folk :)
<jussi> tsimpson: Ill action you for it, itll only take a sec, and then we have it recoded :)
<topyli> jussi: tsimpson is on the roll, don't interrupt him :)
<tsimpson> persia: I'll put examples in the email, and go on a wiki hunt
<jussi> [action] tsimpson to query staff about the cloak details and reservations
<MootBot> ACTION received:  tsimpson to query staff about the cloak details and reservations
<jussi> ok, anything else?
<persia> tsimpson, Thanks
<jussi> right then
<jussi> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 06:33.
<jussi> Ill do the clean up.
<topyli> thanks all
<nigelb> Meetings on sunday <3
<persia> Meetings *early* on sunday get bonus points
<knome> it's not *so* early... :)
<elky> Meetings I can actually get to get extra bonus points.
<persia> knome, You just explain that to the folk in UTC-11 (who will probably claim it's still saturday night)
<knome> ;)
<knome> they can tell that to the folks in UTC+bignumber
<nigelb> persia: But it should be late Sunday or early Monday for you.
<persia> nigelb, I'm only in +9, so not so bad.  One of the required attendees for the just past meeting is in +11, and there's plenty of +13 folks around (although not at this hour, usually)
<nigelb> persia: Time zones are just painful.
<persia> nigelb, Indeed.  We should all measure time in kiloseconds since epoch.
<topyli> flat earth ftw
<persia> topyli, Won't help, unless you have a static sun.  Constructs around central lighting with controls are better suited.
<topyli> probably cheaper than fixing the solar system too
<persia> Depends.  There's not much distinction between "fixing the solar system" and "creating a dyson sphere"
<MrChrisDruif> Council meeting over?
<vish> MrChrisDruif: the irc? yes
<MrChrisDruif> Yeah, the irc. Thanks vish :)
<MrChrisDruif> Thought it would be at 14:00 CET
<MrChrisDruif> Had it wrong in my head...
<persia> CET is only UTC+1 at this time of year.
<vish> i wonder how a mobius-strip-shaped earth would deal with timezones ;)
<vish> it would be much more fun :D
<persia> vish, If it's rotating about a static light source, it's not that different from what happens today.
<MrChrisDruif> Mobius-strip?
<MrChrisDruif> :P
<vish> persia: yea, but i suspect we'd have a whole new list of species too.. (with all those light-depleted zones)  :)
<persia> huh?  Nothing would stay light-deprived.  Anyway, this isn't the place for that discussion.
<MrChrisDruif> -offtopic?
<persia> Indeed.
<vish> iirc, we used to auto-update the topic of this channel for the upcoming meetings right..? if so, why did we stop that?
<persia> vish, Because the fridge changed to Google Calendar, and the version of iCal offered by Google Calendar is incompatible with the SupyBot iCal reader for recurring events.
<vish> aw.. :(
<persia> Please fix :)
<vish> ;p  if i knew about supybots i would try..
<tsimpson> if you know python, you can try
<gpc> -1 to voting on stuff when A) You aren't on the council and B) not in the channel it affects.
<mhall119> cdbs: did you need me for something?
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-02-06
<jdstrand> hi!
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Feb  6 18:12:15 2012 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<tyhicks> hello!
<mdeslaur> \o
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<jjohansen> \o
<jdstrand> FeatureFreeze is coming in a less than two weeks (February 16th). Please try to finish any non-bugfix work items that are tied to the release by this date. Please talk to mdeslaur (and optionally me) soon if there are issues meeting this deadline. This is particularly true for essential and high priority items.
<jdstrand> Thanks:
<jdstrand> Leo Iannacone (l3on) provided debdiffs for natty and oneiric for usbmuxd (LP: #919435)
<jdstrand> Your work is very much appreciated and will keep Ubuntu users secure. Great job! :)
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Review of any previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review of any previous action items
<jdstrand> ACTION: sbeattie to follow up on qrt bugs from QA team
<sbeattie> oh gack, I still haven't responded to the QART bugs on that.
 * jdstrand keeps it as an action for now
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> so, for some reason, I have quite a few meetings this week
<jdstrand> and out of them is coming significant work surrounding the partner archive and secure boot
<jdstrand> so, I am going to be tied up with these things quite a bit
<jdstrand> I managed to get mostly caught up with archive admin duties over the weekend
<jdstrand> but MIR audits are lagging behind
<jdstrand> I may need help with those. I'll ask if I do
<jdstrand> I also have a couple of work items I'd like to finish up. hopefully I will be able to
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm on triage this week
<mdeslaur> this morning, I've released python-httplib2 backports to -proposed
<mdeslaur> these packages add ssl certificate validation to the versions that were in lucid-natty
<mdeslaur> and improve the ssl cert validation in oneiric
<mdeslaur> the update should be seamless, but if anyone has stuff that uses python-httplib2, it would be good to make sure everything works as expected before they get released
<mdeslaur> If tomcat6 testing goes well, I'll be releasing that this week or possibly next
<mdeslaur> and I'll be doing down the cve list to pick up some new updates to work on
<mdeslaur> that's it from me
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're next
<sbeattie> I'm in the happy place this week.
<sbeattie> I'm currently testing openssl as well as working on php and glibc updates.
<sbeattie> I also need to review my work items
<sbeattie> I think that's it for me
<sbeattie> micahg: tag
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you have two bugs that are milestoned, when do you think you'll be getting to them?
<sbeattie> mdeslaur: after I get out from under these updates is my plan.
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: ok, cool
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: those are three nasty updates you've got there :)
<micahg> I'm finishing updates from last week (Thunderbird, xulrunner), might have to push through an icedtea update due to a bad interaction between firefox 10 and icedtea, we're considering doing the Thunderbird rapid release migration during the Thunderbird 10 time frame due to the extra testing efforts upstream that went into the ESR prep (we're not using the ESR)
<micahg> if we go ahead with this, those builds will be in -proposed later this week or early next week
<jdstrand> micahg: what is the deciding factor?
<micahg> jdstrand: umm, just availability I think
<micahg> i.e. we don't have more important things to do right now
<jdstrand> micahg: ok. perhaps you and mdeslaur can discuss that after this meeting
<micahg> ok, sounds good
<micahg> also, I'm planning to merge ca-certificates from Debian before feature freeze
<micahg> and time permitting, work on the webkit migration in the stable releases to 1.6
<micahg> that's it for me, tyhicks?
<tyhicks> I'm in the community role this week
<tyhicks> I'm currently trying to get bug 926292 triaged
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 926292 in linux (Ubuntu) "automake distdir.test fails because of an EPERM error" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/926292
<tyhicks> Once that is done, I'll go back to my ruby1.8 update and begin testing this week
<tyhicks> I think the only work item that I need to complete before feature freeze is getting a daily build ppa set up for ecryptfs-utils
<jdstrand> tyhicks: re 926292> huh, that is from seb128? I thought it failed on the buildds without ecryptfs. interesting
<tyhicks> jdstrand: Yeah, that's the one from seb128
<mdeslaur> tyhicks: so, what's the status on ecryptfs on precise, and on previous releases?
<tyhicks> If it failed on the buildds w/o eCryptfs, I missed that
<tyhicks> I'll look back at the logs
<mdeslaur> tyhicks: are there any outstanding bugs that should be milestones so we track them properly?
<jdstrand> tyhicks: it might be worth asking about...
<tyhicks> mdeslaur: I feel really good about eCryptfs on precise
<mdeslaur> tyhicks: is the automake bug the only one right now?
<tyhicks> mdeslaur: Nope - one more bug that I need to fix
 * tyhicks looks up the number
<tyhicks> bug 842647
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 842647 in eCryptfs "[git] file blocks duplicated at the end of the file" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/842647
<mdeslaur> tyhicks: ok, I'll milestone those two to precise
<tyhicks> thanks mdeslaur
<tyhicks> I think that's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> I need to get the mount and associated rules out and in review and testing this week.  Then I will go back and roll a new version of the dentry patch for Bug #925028.  After that it will be getting all the patches marshalled for a pull request, and then maybe looking at a limited implicit labeling patch more.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 925028 in lxc (Ubuntu) "apparmor breaks lxc-start-ephemeral (apparmor+overlayfs returns -EINVAL)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/925028
<jjohansen> I think thats it from me
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gnome-shell.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/wxwidgets2.6.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/atop.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/vdr.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/kolabd.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, micahg, tyhicks, jjohansen: thanks!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Feb  6 18:38:21 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-06-18.12.moin.txt
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand
<micahg> thanks jdstrand
<tyhicks> thanks!
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks!
<jdstrand> np
<mdz> soren, here
 * pitti waves good evening
<kees> \o
 * stgraber waves
<highvoltage> howdy
<soren> pitti: Oh, you're here. I missed that.
<soren> So we're missing..
<soren> Colin and..
<stgraber> I think that's it
<soren> Oh, right. I'm here.
<soren> Heh
<kees> :P
<stgraber> apparently you're
<soren> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Feb  6 21:01:01 2012 UTC.  The chair is soren. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<soren> #topic action review
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: action review
<pitti> btw, Laney said that he probably cannot make it
<soren> Heh* stgraber
<soren>  ** stgraber to harmonize the DMB expiring dates  (extend bdrung to 2013-02-13 and micah, tumbleweed and then the two new members to 2014-02-13)
<soren> #startmeeting[B[B
<meetingology> soren: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress.
<pitti> but I think we are aware of his topics
<soren> stgraber: You did that, right?
<stgraber> right, all the DMB changes have been done
<soren> Awesome.
<soren> kees to perform brainstorm review
<kees> I suck!
<soren> kees: At least you're consistent :)
<kees> :)
<soren> #action kees to perform brainstorm review
<meetingology> ACTION: kees to perform brainstorm review
<soren> stgraber to de-activate Emmet Hikory's membership in the DMB as he's still MIA. DONE
<soren> Great.
<soren> #topic Is Partner a part of Ubuntu? -- IainLane
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Is Partner a part of Ubuntu? -- IainLane
<soren> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2012-January/001177.html
<pitti> wrt. brainstorm, I think at this point it makes more sense to just drop this one and do March one
<soren> #link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2012-January/001177.html
<pitti> (sorry for lag)
<soren> Does anyone want to present this subject?
<pitti> is anyone not familiar with the discussion and needs some time to catch up/explanations?
<soren> I'm not sure what we're meant to decide.
<pitti> there was some back and forth, mostly between Mark who has always considered Partner a part of Ubuntu, and some developers who never considered it to be
<sabdfl> hi all
<pitti> hey sabdfl
<mdz> I think perhaps part of the confusion is over what is meant by "part of Ubuntu"
<pitti> TBH I'm less worried about the mere terminology; what is and isn't "Ubuntu" certainly canot be proved or disproved, it's a matter of definition
<mdz> particularly with the word "Ubuntu" being overloaded
<pitti> so perhaps we should talk more about the policy/procedures
<mdz> (community, project, product, package repository, ISO, etc.)
<pitti> i. e. should Partner be subject to TB ruling, community involvement, or stay a pure Canonical project
<kees> while I would like "ubuntu" to mean exclusively free software, we already have exceptions.
<Laney> made it through the snow covered wastelands
<pitti> hello Laney
<highvoltage> hey Laney
<pitti> sabdfl: did I understand you right that you would actually want more community involvement there?
<sabdfl> Laney, sounds poetic :)
<sabdfl> pitti, would be happy to facilitate
<pitti> so far it has always been a canonical service on top of Ubuntu to me, to make it very easy for users to install popular software
<highvoltage> pitti: it's easy to understand it that way if it's been defined like that *everywhere* ;)
<sabdfl> pitti, yes, i think it was described that way, fair enough
<soren> pitti: I feel (and have always felt) the same way.
<Laney> I'm not so tied to the formulation of my two questions fwiw. I think we're pretty clear on what the discussion is about.
<sabdfl> on community involvement
<sabdfl> i hadn't realised there was interest in being able to engage there
<Laney> I don't think anyone is in doubt that partner as it stands isn't "part of Ubuntu" as we want it, so we should figure out what we'd like to see to make it so, if that is the goal.
<sabdfl> but since it was asked about, we should ask the folk who run the archive to make that possible
<soren> Laney: I'm less sure. I think it's an interesting topic for sure, but I'm unclear how we can close this point on the agenda a way that's satisfactory to anyone.
<Laney> I don't really know that there is interest.
<sabdfl> stepping back a little
<pitti> argh, DSL reconnect; I lost the previous conversation, and probably you didn't see my ramblings
<sabdfl> ubuntu is unusual in that it tries to bring balance across some areas of tension
<sabdfl> for example, between company and community
<stgraber> pitti: last from you: 21:08 < pitti> so far it has always been a canonical service on top of Ubuntu to me, to make it very easy for users to install popular software
<sabdfl> it's easy, if you live on only one side of that fence, to snipe at the other side
<pitti> so far it has always been a canonical service on top of Ubuntu to me, to make it very easy for users to install popular software
<pitti> and I have some doubts whether we'd do Canonical or the Ubuntu community a favor by trying to push partner under Ubuntu packaging and other policies
<pitti> that might restrict Canonical in what it's doing with it, and we could never make it even remotely adhere to Ubuntu standards
<pitti> (free software, minimal SRUs, freezes, etc.), as this kind of software just doesn't work like that
<sabdfl> but we try to bring both together, in an appropriate way
<sabdfl> recognizing that end users want clarity and principles, and also want working results
<sabdfl> in pitti's list (free software) is a good example, since we created restricted at the outset, and multiverse not long after
<sabdfl> i often see folk claiming ubuntu stands for just on part of the whole
<sabdfl> but to me, it's the whole that makes it really interesting
<sabdfl> now, we do have clear lines
<pitti> "interesting" for sure
<sabdfl> we haven't put proprietary userspace apps in the cd, afaict
<sabdfl> just drivers
<pitti> I actually haven't seen any reply that considered partner a bad or irrelevant service
<sabdfl> pitti, then the question is: how does the Ubuntu project want to deliver those bits to its users?
<pitti> I wasn't actually sure what the question was here :)
<highvoltage> http://www.canonical.com/about-ubuntu
<sabdfl> because (a) it needs to answer that, and (b) the answer will describe what it means for those bits to be 'in Ubuntu'
<highvoltage> "But best of all, Ubuntu is and always will be absolutely free."
<highvoltage> what exactly does "Ubuntu is and always will be absolutely free" mean?
<sabdfl> highvoltage, that refers to price
<pitti> sabdfl: hm, the current integration into software-center seems quite nice to me? have there been any complaints?
<highvoltage> hmm, interesting :/
<Laney> I don't think the project has had any problem with how partner is implemented currently
<sabdfl> pitti, i'm sure there were eyebrows raised in some quarters :)
<pitti> I had the impression the discussion revolved more about definitions and who can drive it
<sabdfl> perhaps the term 'enemy of freedom' was bandied about in certain tea parties
<Laney> the project as led by the TB, at least.
<sabdfl> highvoltage, what did you think restricted was?
<mdz> the question arose because of remixing, right?
<mdz> maybe we should discuss in that context
<sabdfl> Laney, the TB has a mandate to lead technical processes, supervise developers, set technical direction etc
<sabdfl> i forget the wording
<sabdfl> this is not, technically, a matter for the TB ;-)
<Laney> Whatever the precise mandate is, I don't see any push from inside the project to change how partner is delivered
<highvoltage> sabdfl: restricted is at least a clearly noted exception that's documented from the very start
<sabdfl> but since it was being discussed here, and since we have many folk here who contribute more than technically, I thought it would be worth engaging
<sabdfl> highvoltage, yes. but it establishes that we understand the need to dance appropriately with proprietary software
<sabdfl> and this conversation is thus appropriate
<Laney> I think a good outcome of this would be to open partner up to (a) bug reporting and (b) patches to the packaging as far as it isn't currently
<sabdfl> the question is, for our users, what do we want to do about things like vmware player?
<sabdfl> Laney, +1
<pitti> wrt. restricted, it's part of archive.ubuntu.com, and covered by the usual ubuntu-{,core-}dev privileges, SRU policy, etc.
<pitti> none of which applies to partner
<Laney> But there's a risk of removing its agility if you involve the community more
<sabdfl> let's consider that historical
<micahg> partner is already open for bug reporting (there are plenty open :))
<Laney> ok
<sabdfl> and ask what it would look like, if it were designed now
<Laney> that was just something raised on list
<pitti> (a) (bug reporting) should already be provided? cf. cjwatson's reply
<sabdfl> yes, bug reporting is handled
<popey> "handled" as in we have infratructure to report them
<sabdfl> and i have no objections to figuring out how to take patches
<popey> not "handled" in that anyone takes care of the bugs
<sabdfl> and possibly even how to have an ITP type process inviting participation
<sabdfl> *some* things will require NDA's from the ISV, and preclude that kind of pre-release discolsure
<sabdfl> disclosure, even
<pitti> those sound fine to me
<sabdfl> but i don't know any examples
<Laney> I actually think it is a great example of how Canonical and Ubuntu can work together, so it seems a little strange to me to see that it is desirable to make it a "part of Ubuntu", whatever that means
<ajmitch> how does this differ from the commercial apps queue on developer.ubuntu.com now?
<sabdfl> Laney, you get to the heart of my point
<pitti> I'd just object against trying to crowbar partner into the ubuntu packaging/freeze/SRU policies, that's IMHO not going to fly
<sabdfl> pitti, agreed
<pitti> it seems much closer to extras.ubuntu.com to me
<sabdfl> we have the same core issues with restricted and multiverse, though
<sabdfl> i don't really know extras.u.c, tbh
<popey> partner is not a lot different from any one of a number of PPAs we already have out there, it's just more integrated into USC
<mdz> restricted and multiverse differ only in licensing
<mdz> the rest of Ubuntu's policies and processes still apply
<sabdfl> is that the ARB repo?
<pitti> sabdfl: yes, that one
<Laney> I'm not sure how the paid apps are delivered thusly
<pitti> sabdfl: i. e. post-release apps added to s-c by third party devs
<sabdfl> mdz, agreed, though i think 'integrated in the USC' is tantamount to 'we've put our stamp on it'
<tumbleweed> sticking my nose in, the issue I raised in the private discussion was: Are we happy with an Ubuntu remix that dosen't have the "freedom to share it with anyone you like"?
<sabdfl> so, perhaps belatedly, we should figure out how to do that to a standard that matches the stamp :)
<pitti> tumbleweed: right, I think that question comes closest to the definition side of the word, and is very much unrelated to policies, upload privs, etc.
<sabdfl> tumbleweed, hence remix, not edition, for sure
<Laney> that is the second question I asked
<beuno> I've had that email parked for reply for a while now, and I can't really see how this would be much different than what we have been doing up to now
<pitti> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ExtensionRepositoryPolicy
<mdz> sabdfl, we present software to users in various ways, but it doesn't always mean the same thing
<beuno> it's just a change in the way it's delivered
<sabdfl> by way of background, the team originally did it as a derivative, tentatively called the Canonical Business Desktop, to which there were objections that it would set us on a course of having 'special bits'
<sabdfl> which is definitely not a course we want to set
<mdz> e.g. Ubuntu downloads third party software from various sources, which we enable, but on a kind of as-is basis
<sabdfl> i asked that it be redone, as a pure remix
<mdz> plugins, printer drivers, and the like
<sabdfl> thinking that there would be far fewer objections to that, since anyone can do a remix
<mdz> but this seems to be more a question of governance than of user experience or messaging
<pitti> sabdfl: my question to this would be: do we want to allow anyone else than C to create a remix that includes partner, and perhaps even extras.u.c., and call it "Ubuntu"?
<mdz> if the question is, who governs partner, the answer is unquestionably Canonical and not Ubuntu
<soren> pitti: We can't, can we?
<pitti> sabdfl: or should that be more like a Canonical prerogative/project?
<sabdfl> pitti, i would have no objection
<sabdfl> they would need distribution rights to the bits
<mdz> soren, Canonical may be able to, but Ubuntu cannot
<soren> pitti: Stuff in partner may only be distributable by Canonical.
<mdz> depending on the terms
<Laney> to me the word "remix" really doesn't imply endorsement from the project
<soren> mdz: Exactly.
<sabdfl> but we would not assert special rights to the parts we do, i.e. the packaging
<pitti> sabdfl: right, I mean in the category of TM compliance/violation
<Laney> quite the contrary infact
<pitti> no, but in order to call it Ubuntu you need to satisfy the trademark restrictions
<sabdfl> mdz, can you clarify why Ubuntu cannot?
<sabdfl> in some senses, i understand
<sabdfl> ubuntu can't countersign a license with the ISV
<pitti> so if sabdfl wants "Ubuntu" to encompass partner, I see no reason to object
<sabdfl> but in other senses, it can, in that we could ask TB to take a view on challenges presented in the packaging, for example
<pitti> (again, only under a trademark POV; sorting out licenses is the business of the creator of that remix, of course)
<sabdfl> pitti, if we consider partner as part of ubuntu, then vmware could use the package in there to do an Ubuntu VMWare Client Remix
<Laney> http://www.ubuntu.com/aboutus/trademarkpolicy: "In general, a Remix can have applications from the Ubuntu archives added, or default applications removed, but removing or changing any infrastructure components (e.g., shared libraries or desktop components) will result in changes too large for the resulting product to be called by a Trademark"
<sabdfl> and users would get exactly what they expect
<sabdfl> same for, say, Citrix
<pitti> sabdfl: yes, that was sort of my question, whether you would like the Ubuntu TM policy to allow that
<soren> Shall we formally move on to the remix subject?
<sabdfl> pitti, yes. that's what I *thought* it already said :)
<pitti> because at that point it would go pretty far from "free/libre OS"
<sabdfl> pitti, remixes can already include all of multiverse
<pitti> sabdfl: right, it just seems rather counter-intuitive to us long-term ubuntu devs, so that takes a while to settle
<soren> #topic Should the Ubuntu remix policy be relaxed to allow the use of non-Ubuntu components in remixes?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Should the Ubuntu remix policy be relaxed to allow the use of non-Ubuntu components in remixes?
<kees> I have trouble seeing how software that cannot be redistrubted by anyone but Canonical should be considered "part of Ubuntu".
<soren> (calling it like it is)
<micahg> multiverse is at least freely redistributable, just not necessarily modifyable
<sabdfl> kees, separate distribution from redistribution
<sabdfl> you can get permission to distribute anything in there, if you want it
<sabdfl> then remix it
<sabdfl> that's not something canonical forces, nor that ubuntu forces, it's a reality we need to deal with
<sabdfl> we're having this conversation because i'd prefer that you *can* make a remix that has those bits in, rather than having Canonical be the only company which can do so
<soren> What does "can" mean in this context?
<sabdfl> again, a remix is in my mind what you can get to, or back from, using standard package management
<kees> right, I'd like these remixes to be flexible. if a mirror can't be a mirror without seeking some sort of additional permissions, I don't think that should be under the Ubuntu umbrella.
<sabdfl> which isn't *exactly* the same as USC, but close enough
<sabdfl> kees, there we differ
<sabdfl> mirrors can mirror what they can mirror
<greg-g> soren: "can" if you go get the separate licensing agreements from the companies that Canonical has, no garauntee that you will.
<sabdfl> Ubuntu should facilitate that, yes, but not penalise users because there are some bits which cannot be mirrored
<sabdfl> greg-g, there are few guarantees of anything in life, beyond mortality ;)
<micahg> partner licensing wouldn't affect a -desktop package in the archive that recommends partner apps
<soren> greg-g: In that case the limitation on "can" must refer to "being allowed to name it 'ubuntu' something"?
<kees> I don't ever want to see "I provided an Ubuntu mirror and Xyz Corp sued me"
<sabdfl> kees, agreed. which is why we have a place for non-mirrorable bits
<sabdfl> *must* have a place for non-mirrorable place
<sabdfl> erk
<sabdfl> bits
<sabdfl> and why that place can't easily be in the archive / components / pockets
<sabdfl> so, again, we promote those bits in the software centre; we implicitly stand by them
<sabdfl> and if the TB thinks that the implementation is stinky, we should figure out how to address that
<sabdfl> i make no claims of non-stinkiness, especially for old packages in partner
<pitti> the TB actually did discuss and eventually approve https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ExtensionRepositoryPolicy
<pitti> so as long as pacakges satisfy that minimal standard (both partner and ARB alike), there is a certain confidence that users can put into them
 * kees nods
<sabdfl> right
<Laney> Can't we just allow remixes to include packages from extension repositories, and specify some way by which non-redistributility is to be indicated
<sabdfl> that's very useful
<Laney> ?
<pitti> that's one point where Ubuntu institutions (TB in that case) can influence e. g. Partner
<pitti> without totally pulling it under Ubuntu governance
<pitti> sorry, "ubuntu" from a developer's POV here
<pitti> (terminology...)
<sabdfl> hmm... that looks like the TB has outlined a framework, within which those archives need to operate
<sabdfl> so the task at hand is to make sure that partner (and the others) meet that standard
<sabdfl> which i'm confident we can do
<pitti> let's say it's a set of requirements that aims to say what a third-party package must look like to work on, and not break, the Ubuntu OS underneath it
<sabdfl> the guys currently figuring this out are very good - mvo & co
<mdz> sabdfl, (sorry, had to step away from my desk)
<Laney> So (a) the TB can designate repositories to be extension repositories and (b) remixes can include sources from these so long as the repositories are following the policy
<pitti> I'm not sure to what extend (B) can be enforced
<mdz> I was saying that Ubuntu could not, without specific permission from Canonical and/or the original rights holder, remix with partner
<sabdfl> and really, i'd like to ask the TB to trust them, and work with them, to do it right, even if the task isn't as much fresh air as, say, figuring out multiarch :)
<Laney> well, the TB can take a look if concerns are raised to it
<sabdfl> mdz, ok
<mdz> that's the point, isn't it? that the software can't be distributed by Ubuntu, otherwise it would be in the Ubuntu repositories
<ajmitch> Laney: that would exclude most PPAs without TB involvement?
<sabdfl> if Canonical grants that right, under the remix guidelines which are essentially a wide trademark license subject to the constraint of using packages from those archives
<Laney> correct, remixes can't have these anyway
<sabdfl> then, it is only a matter for the ISV and the person doing the remix
<sabdfl> PPA's can't go into remixes, because the namespace is not managed
<sabdfl> a ppa package can overwrite a normal package
<sabdfl> that would be a derivative
<Laney> and (c) If a remix includes a non-freely-redistrutable component then it must indicate in some to-be-defined way the presence of this so that people wishing to mirror or derive know that they must seek additional licenses
<sabdfl> to me, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ExtensionRepositoryPolicy suggests we've already answered this question, setting standards for those archives
<pitti> right, the extras policy avoids that possibility of overwriting
<sabdfl> Laney, we don't publish the remix in a way that standard mirroring would pick it up
<sabdfl> so as to avoid inadvertent issues for the mirrors
<Laney> sabdfl: right, any mirroring
<sabdfl> you could warez it, but there wouldn't be much point :)
<Laney> just something that people working with these remixes need to be aware of
<pitti> right, I wouldn't like these to be on cdimage.u.c. or releases.u.c. anywhere
<soren> We seem to be converging. Anyone care to sum up? Laney?
<pitti> for the same reason why archive.c.c shouldn't be
<pitti> (expectancy that *.ubuntu.com is redistributable and mostly FOSS, as www.u.c. advertises)
<Laney> soren: I gave my (a) (b) and (c) that I think would be reasonable
<sabdfl> pitti, right, they can't be on those sites, because of mirroring
<Laney> you guys should decide what you think about that, or something else
<sabdfl> Laney, (a) bug reports, (b) packaging patches, (c) ?
<Laney> no, those are just nice wishlists for partner to have (although a is done)
<pitti> so for Laney's (a), I don't think the TB should "designate" extension repos
<soren> So (a) the TB can designate repositories to be extension repositories and (b) remixes can include sources from these so long as the repositories are following the policy (c) If a remix includes a non-freely-redistrutable component then it must indicate in some to-be-defined way the presence of this so that people wishing to mirror or  derive know that they must seek additional licenses
<sabdfl> ah
<Laney> I don't know what is currently done
<pitti> Laney: I'd like to modify your (a) to say "TB can define what an extension repo must look like"
<sabdfl> any mirror needs to satisfy themselves as to (c) as good practice
<Laney> did you say "extras is an extension reposotory" when that was created?
<Laney> the list of three repositories in the first paragraph of ExtensionRepositoryPolicy
<pitti> yes, unlike partner we had that policy discussion before extras.u.c. was opened
<Laney> "This policy applies to software published through one of the extension repositories Extras, Partner, and Commercial"
<Laney> so I guess you already have (a)
<soren> Lovely.
<pitti> right; I (mis?)understood "designate" as "actively bless"
<pitti> "define" would perhaps be clearer
<Laney> I am saying that there is a canonical list of extension repositories, and that Ubuntu Remixes can include packages from those.
<wendar> pitti: aye, or "recognize"
<soren> Ok, so shall we move to vote on: "Remixes can include sources from these so long as the repositories are following ExtensionRepositoryPolicy"?
<soren> (running low on time)
<sabdfl> +1
<soren> #vote Remixes can include sources from these so long as the repositories are following ExtensionRepositoryPolicy
<meetingology> Please vote on: Remixes can include sources from these so long as the repositories are following ExtensionRepositoryPolicy
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<sabdfl> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from sabdfl
<Laney> these â extension repositories as defined in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ExtensionRepositoryPolicy
<Laney> s/defined/your btetter word/
<mdz> soren, sorry, what does "these" refer to specifically?
<pitti> "these" == extras, partner, commercial ?
<pitti> i. e. a specific subset?
<pitti> it seems a bit lax to say "any archive which adheres to above policy
<Laney> I think it should be dynamic and refer to the wiki page, so it's easily updated.
<pitti> then "Ubuntu" would be quite meaningless
<Laney> The wiki page should be the canonical list of extension repositories
<soren> Sorry, I skimmed that page and thought it gave a list.
<Laney> modified only by decision of the TB
<Laney> it does
<pitti> if "these" == "list on above wiki page", it sounds fine to me
<wendar> sensible that any new repositories that what to be recognized would approach the TB to be added to that page.
<soren> Oh, yes, it does.
<sabdfl> +1 to requiring TB approval
<meetingology> +1 to requiring TB approval received from sabdfl
<stgraber> +1 [Remixes can include packages from the extension repositories listed on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ExtensionRepositoryPolicy (additions to that list need to be approved by the TB)]
<meetingology> +1 [Remixes can include packages from the extension repositories listed on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ExtensionRepositoryPolicy (additions to that list need to be approved by the TB)] received from stgraber
<pitti> +1 then
<meetingology> +1 then received from pitti
<gekker> thank you gentlemen of the board, this is very good guidance
<soren> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from soren
<pitti> (based on sabdfl's +1, as I think it's pretty much his choice what "ubuntu" is :) )
<mdz> +1, what stgraber said
<meetingology> +1, what stgraber said received from mdz
 * pitti wonders how meetingology adds these up
 * soren lost count
<soren> kees?
<kees> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from kees
<soren> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Remixes can include sources from these so long as the repositories are following ExtensionRepositoryPolicy
<meetingology> Votes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<soren> Yay.
<micahg> pitti: I'd guess by an abacus on the backend :)
<soren> #topic Review copyright file placement for Ubuntu ARB apps (currently installed under /opt, should probably be under the usual location).
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review copyright file placement for Ubuntu ARB apps (currently installed under /opt, should probably be under the usual location).
<soren> highvoltage: .
<highvoltage> right!
<sabdfl> i should say thanks to the TB retroactively for the extension repo policy, it's very clear and addresses this nicely
<highvoltage> ARB apps currently require that the copyright file is installed under /opt
<Laney> (I think the remix trademark policy needs to specify some standard for documenting non-freely-redistrutable stuff, but maybe I'll take it to list)
<Laney> (good decision, thanks)
<highvoltage> imho there's very little reason why it can't go under /usr/share/doc/$packagename like all the other packages
<pitti> also, a link to the "Ubuntu" trademark policy couldn't hurt, whereever that lives these days
<mdz> highvoltage, refresh my memory please, is $packagename already required to be non-overlapping with Ubuntu proper?
<ajmitch> the package name is going to have to be unique
<highvoltage> (should I hold on a bit longer for the remix discussions?)
<stgraber> right, /usr/share/doc/<package name> is already namespaced, so there can't be conflict between ARB and regular package there as otherwise you'd have a package name conflict too
<Laney> someone needs an action to get the trademark policy fixed
<pitti> mdz: yes
<Laney> sorry, /me goes awy
<highvoltage> mdz: yes
<mdz> I don't see a problem with it then
<soren> mdz: Even if not, there couldn't possible be overlap on individual systems.
<soren> *possibly
<pitti> mdz: in fact, that's the first requirement
<stgraber> it's really just a small clarification to the ARB policy I asked highvoltage to send to the TB for approval anyway. I didn't think it'd be covered by the generic namespace exception I proposed a few meetings ago
<kees> seems fine, almost better, to have it in /usr/hsare/doc/$pkg
<highvoltage> I think it would be good to have it somewhere predictable, and if someone wants to use some auditing tools for licensing (even if it's toy ones like the rms script) then at least it will still work
<pitti> kees: hm, I disagree
<pitti> if the whole package lives in /opt/<name>, so should the doc and copyright IMHO
<pitti> but I don't have a strong opinion either way
<stgraber> I also think it's going to possibly fix a few tools expecting to find the changelog/copyright file in /usr/share/doc/<package> and not /opt/extras.ubuntu.com/<package>/doc/
<soren> I think /usr/share/doc makes sense. I like the assumption that any package dpkg knows about has its copyright file in the same place.
<highvoltage> (I don't have much more to say on the issue)
<ajmitch> shoudl an exception apply to anything under /usr/share/doc/package, or just copyright/changelog?
<kees> pitti: there isn't a need to keep the contents isolated to a single root path because we have a package manager. putting things in /opt keeps it out of PATH if needed. re-using the common documentation path seems correct to me.
<pitti> kees: ok, fair enough
<soren> Does anyone want further discussion, or should we vote?
<stgraber> ajmitch: I'd go with anything usually found under /usr/share/doc/<package>, I definitely don't want apps to start putting non-standard stuff there
<stgraber> ajmitch: so having changelog, copyright, upstream changelog, possibly some examples sounds reasonable, anything else definitely shouldn't (as it shouldn't in the archive anyway)
<ajmitch> stgraber: right, I'm just thinking of the usual README & example files
<pitti> soren: nothing from me
<soren> #vote Copyright files for ARB apps should reside in /usr/share/doc/<packagename>/copyright even though the rest of the package's files are in /opt
<meetingology> Please vote on: Copyright files for ARB apps should reside in /usr/share/doc/<packagename>/copyright even though the rest of the package's files are in /opt
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<kees> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from kees
<soren> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from soren
<pitti> 0
<meetingology> 0 received from pitti
<mdz> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from mdz
<mdz> pitti, nice that meetingology understands that zero is unsigned :-)
<soren> stgraber: ?
<stgraber> +1 [applies to any file in /usr/share/doc/<package name>/ that'd normally be allowed in the archive, that's at least changelog, copyright, upstream changelog, possibly some readme and examples]
<meetingology> +1 [applies to any file in /usr/share/doc/<package name>/ that'd normally be allowed in the archive, that's at least changelog, copyright, upstream changelog, possibly some readme and examples] received from stgraber
<pitti> mdz: yes, I refuse to say "plus zero" :)
<pitti> 0~
<meetingology> 0~ received from pitti
<soren> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Copyright files for ARB apps should reside in /usr/share/doc/<packagename>/copyright even though the rest of the package's files are in /opt
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1
<meetingology> Motion carried
<pitti> . o O { meetingology hacking }
<soren> Laney raised a good point: Someone needs an action item to adjust the trademark policy for the remixes. Who can do that?
<sabdfl> you mean fix the website, or draft the text?
<sabdfl> i can get the policy amended, especially if you have specific text to add
<sabdfl> and can get it on the website, given the URL to amend
<sabdfl> thanks all
<soren> Draft the text, I guess. Getting it changed should be a matter of filing a bug and waiting :)
<sabdfl> let's go with Laney's amended text?
<Laney> I didn't suggest precise wording, but I think I'm going to work with wendar on this
<Laney> We'll CC the TB
<sabdfl> ok, feel free to CC me
<sabdfl> ok
<soren> #action Laney and wendar to get trademark policy updated wrt remixes
<meetingology> ACTION: Laney and wendar to get trademark policy updated wrt remixes
<soren> AOB real quick? Chair for next meeting?
<soren> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<pitti> lexicographically that would be stgraber?
<soren> WEll, he filled in for me last time.
<soren> So Colin's next, I guess.
<pitti> so, back to the top then, Colin?
<soren> Alright, then.
<soren> Ok, great. Thanks everyone, and sorry it ran late.
<stgraber> thanks!
<soren> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Feb  6 22:04:54 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-06-21.01.moin.txt
<AlanBell> sabdfl: there are very few stinky old packages in partner, things don't get dragged forward to new releases, so anything stinky is a stinky new package. Things going missing is, in itself, a bit stinky.
<pitti> thanks everyone!
<AlanBell> pitti: meetingology counts votes once per person, but you can change your vote as many times as you like before #endvote is called, it uses the last thing you said. I have no idea what it thought 0~ meant.
<AlanBell> micahg: yes, it is an abacus.
<micahg> hehe
<pitti> AlanBell: "~" has a special meaning in Debian/ubuntu package versions
<pitti> it was really just a joke
<pitti> AlanBell: for dpkg, "0~" is rathehr interesting, as it's smaller than 0, but not negative :)
<soren> It's roughly equal to 0-Îµ.
<soren> Although, that would be negative, I guess.
<pitti> right
<pitti> I don't think 0~ can be expressed with any mathematical model of real numbers
<soren> I think I must insist that 0~ is negative, too. Otherwise my head will explode :)
<AlanBell> it looks at the first two characters and sees if it is something it is expecting, I am surprised it looked like it accepted 0~
<pitti> AlanBell: nah, it just accepted the "0" and ignored the rest, I figure
<pitti> I just really like "0~" because it's a nice brain teaser
<pitti> anyway, bed time
<pitti> soren: well, if it is, it's smaller than any negative number
 * AlanBell will have to go read the code in a sec
 * pitti waves good night
<soren> o/
<kees> thanks soren!
 * cielak is away: Busy/Away
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-02-07
 * cielak is back (gone 10:06:56)
<Vivek> Hi
<hallyn> \o
<jamespage> o/
<Daviey> Hola
<m_3> o/
<rbasak> \o
<justinlw> bon jour
<utlemming> o/
<arosales> Hello
<Daviey> Ursinha: I think you are driving the chair! :)
<Ursinha> me?
<Ursinha> I have another meeting in the meantime...
<Ursinha> but I can try to heavy multitask :)
<lynxman> o/
<Daviey> Ursinha: defer to next week i guess?
<Daviey> smoser, you are next in line :)
<Ursinha> Daviey, I'll always have this meeting but sure, I can try :)
<Daviey> Ursinha: You have a standing, clashing meeting?
<roaksoax> o/
<zul> jambo
<Ursinha> Daviey, there is the desktop meeting, but I can surely try mext week :)
<koolhead17> hi
<Daviey> *sigh*
<Daviey> utlemming: looks like smoser is /away, that puts you in line of fire.
<Daviey> Can you kick off?
<utlemming> yeah, give me a minute to pull up the meeting minutes and stuff
<smoser> hm..
<smoser> i can do this.
<smoser> i'm not away.
<smoser> unfortunately
<Ursinha> haha
<utlemming> either/or, smoser, you're call
<rbasak> This is like musical chairs!
<smoser> i'd rather take it now.
<Daviey> smoser: go
<smoser> #start-meeting ubuntu-server-team
<smoser> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Feb  7 16:06:50 2012 UTC.  The chair is smoser. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<utlemming> smoser: we need to welcome Justinlw to the Server team
<smoser> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<smoser>  * jamespage to get juju MIR's added to server precise release tracking
<smoser> jamespage, ^
<jamespage> smoser: done
<jamespage> ta Daviey
<smoser> moving on
<arosales> welcome justinlw! :-)
<smoser> [TOPIC] Precise Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Precise Development
 * justinlw nods, waves
<Daviey> Feature Freeze next Thursday, anything outstanding?
 * smoser is not ignoring that, just figured it was more "open discussion" or some other section than 'review action points'
<arosales> smoser: roger, I just jumped the gun
<rbasak> I should get my openmpi test builds done before then
<Daviey> rbasak: Great.. rbasak, can you raise a warning this time next week if not?
<rbasak> will do
<Daviey> maas will be uploaded this Thursday, pending review.
<Daviey> Anything else of concern?
<hallyn> we really want apparmor mount controls before ff
<rbasak> Also from my end, console fifo patch into nova? Is that a feature?
<hallyn> and netcf in main, and enabled in libvirt
<Daviey> hallyn: Does that have a bug?  Dangers it won't be reached?
<zul> rbasak: yeah ill stick in today
<hallyn> Daviey: it has bugs depending on it, but no explicit bug
<hallyn> jjohansen would know what danger of not being reached is right now.
<rbasak> Cool, thanks zul!
<hallyn> i know he has a lot to juggle, not sure where it's at
<Daviey> hallyn: ok, i'll discuss it in -server after the meeting.
<hallyn> ok
<Daviey> smoser: Do you want to itterate over the todo bugs?
<smoser> i can..
<smoser> link ?
<Daviey> http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html
<smoser> bug 924739
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 924739 in squid3 (Ubuntu Precise) "after upgrade from oneiric to precise, previous squid config unused, cannot be used when relocated" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/924739
<adam_g> i helped triage that one
<smoser> yeah... and i think its significant.
<adam_g> but am unsure of a solution, and was hoping we might be able to discuss the squid3 transition in forum
<smoser> i'm not sure what we've done on transition of other packages before.
<smoser> i'm assuming there is good prior art
<Daviey> adam_g: do you have capacity to drive it, or is it better with roaksoax ?
<smoser> but ending up with no running proxy seems not so nice.
<adam_g> Daviey: i'd be happy to look into possible solutions if someone can point me toward other packages that have gone through similar transitions in the past, where config files have moved to different locations with new syntax
<Daviey> adam_g: okay, lets take it to -server, after.
<adam_g> Daviey: +1
<smoser> bug 883988
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 883988 in glance (Ubuntu Precise) "db migration failing when upgrading glance - trying to create existing tables" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/883988
<adam_g> smoser: theres still no movement on that, i was hoping it'd be fixed during their bug squashing day but there still seems to be disagreement among developers up stream on how to handle database migrations.
<smoser> adam_g, should you just dupe that ?
<adam_g> smoser: yeah, there was a lot of conversion about hte issue on another bug last week, ill try to find that add a link as well
<smoser> you put a reference in the bug
<Daviey> adam_g: can you open discussion with upstream and see what we should do?
<smoser> bug 779311
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 779311 in glance (Ubuntu) "Glance update for Ubuntu failing" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/779311
<adam_g> Daviey: yeah
<smoser> bug 893926
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 893926 in eucalyptus (Ubuntu) "Contains traces of UEC" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/893926
<Daviey> I'll follow up with the assignee
<smoser> k
<smoser> bug 911812
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 911812 in facter (Ubuntu Precise) "processor fact does not handle arm, others" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/911812
<Daviey> roaksoax: ?
<roaksoax> Daviey: adam_g was working on it and AFAIK he requested access to the arm cluster to work on it
<Daviey> ahh
<roaksoax> Daviey: though it was determined that upstream contains the fix for it, we just need to SRU
<Daviey> rbasak: Do you think you could chime in?
<smoser> adam_g, refute or deny in #ubuntu-server
<smoser> bug 913009
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 913009 in bacula (Ubuntu) "package bacula-common-mysql (not installed) failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite '/usr/lib/bacula/libbaccats.la', which is also in package bacula-common 5.2.1-0ubuntu2" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/913009
 * smoser will do that after this meeting.
<adam_g> roaksoax: please continue on with that one, i only was able to confirm its at least fixed in the current release
<smoser> meant to do it this morning
<smoser> bug 914392
<Daviey> git bisect ++
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 914392 in juju "LXC local provider does not respect 'series' (only installs oneiric)" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/914392
<rbasak> adam_g, roaksoax, Daviey: I'm happy to test on my panda, just let me know
<smoser> branch is still under review there. maybe hazmat can ping a bit.
<roaksoax> adam_g: will sure do.
<roaksoax> rbasak: will prepare SRU's and give them for you to test!
 * smoser will ping hazmat and beg.
<smoser> bug 923681
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 923681 in debian-installer (Ubuntu) "Server install fails when selecting everything but 'VM host' & 'Manual selection' from tasksel" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/923681
<Daviey> i think that wants input from zul
<smoser> that seems somewhat significant
<zul> from me?
<Daviey> it's a Conflicts issue.
<Daviey> see comment #2
<smoser> zul, please take a look.
<smoser> bug 850443
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 850443 in python-eventlet (Ubuntu) "Nova API does not listen on IPv6" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/850443
<zul> smoser: ack
<smoser> Daviey, did you think that was going to get fixed upstream?
<rbasak> 914392 will cause big issues for arm if it doesn't get fixed
<Daviey> smoser: NFI
<rbasak> bug 914392
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 914392 in juju "LXC local provider does not respect 'series' (only installs oneiric)" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/914392
<smoser> rbasak, it willg et fixed.
<smoser> bug 898840
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 898840 in cobbler (Ubuntu) "'default' preseed should be enlister" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/898840
<Daviey> smoser: there is a patch we can steal
<Daviey> (proposed upstream, wanted to wait for it to be applied.)
<Daviey> roaksoax: bug 898840 ?
<smoser> ah. to eventlit.
<roaksoax> Daviey: ready to merge
<smoser> Daviey, so should that be closed on openstack-compute ?
<roaksoax> Daviey: though holding it till I succesfully test the maas
<Daviey> roaksoax: just land it for orchestra, we'll adjust for next version
<smoser> well... i'll poke a bit.
<roaksoax> Daviey: cool then
<Daviey> smoser: It's unclear.. I'd leave the task open for a bt
<smoser> k
<smoser> bug 880339
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 880339 in mysql-5.1 (Ubuntu Precise) "AppArmor profile needs update" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/880339
<smoser> roaksoax,
<Daviey> SpamapS might like to add his thoughts?
<roaksoax> Daviey: it was marked invalid as I couldn't reproduce it
<roaksoax> Daviey: it was just re-openfor what I can see
<roaksoax> Daviey: will look into it again
<Daviey> With the current discussion going on RE: mysql - that bug might need adjusting
<Daviey> cool
<smoser> move on?
<smoser> bug 875262
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 875262 in php5 (Ubuntu Oneiric) "PHP Startup: Unable to load dynamic library '/usr/lib/php5/20090626+lfs/sqlite.so'" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/875262
<Daviey> SpamapS: ^^ working with koolhead17 ?
<koolhead17> i got help on this from SpamapS
<smoser> ok. and its targetted to beta-1. good job koolhead17
<SpamapS> sorry I've been away
<smoser> bug 904681
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 904681 in Ubuntu "precise amd64 minimal-virtual install is oversized" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/904681
<SpamapS> Daviey: re the mysql bug.. its been pending for a while.. simple fix. I think there's a dupe in mysql-5.5 that is marked High
<Daviey> I think oversized is fixed?
 * Daviey checks
<Daviey> https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Precise/job/precise-server-amd64_minimal-virtual/
<smoser> Daviey, where are you checking? just for those who are playing the home-game
<Daviey> woot
<smoser> thanks
<koolhead17> also Daviey for 875262 there is big merge coming so SpamapS suggested me to hold on :P
<SpamapS> re PHP, I've asked koolhead17 to lay off, given the weirdness coming from Debian
<smoser> ok. good. so it seems we're on-target there. thank you SpamapS and koolhead17
<smoser> bug 906654
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 906654 in nova (Ubuntu) "nova should depend on openstackx and load appropriate osapi_extensions by default" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/906654
<SpamapS> I had given up on php 5.4.0 , but some folks have privately asked me to take a second look at it
<Daviey> zul: ^^ ?
<Daviey> SpamapS: sounds good.
<SpamapS> There's a discussion happening today in the Debian php group about suhosin also
<smoser> well, per adam_g
<smoser> Note: This will likely be marked invalid soon, as the openstackx library is soon to be marked deprecated and removed in favor of python-novaclient.
<adam_g> smoser: yes, thats still true. id like to confirm whether or not thats actually happened yet
<adam_g> smoser: will mark the bug invalid as soon as i can do that
<smoser> adam_g, yeah. thanks.
<Daviey> oh, nice
<smoser> bug 907197
<zul> Daviey: openstackx has already removed from horizon
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 907197 in nova (Ubuntu) "ip address can't be injected into the instance when using lxc " [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/907197
<smoser> zul you want to lok at that? i can take a quick look also
<adam_g> zul: what about in nova?
<zul> smoser:  please
<smoser> (but in my opinion,that is extremely low importance)
<zul> adam_g: i think its gone as well
<smoser> i fear i'm going to get sick to my stomach looking from reading the stack trace though
<smoser> yuck
<smoser> bug 879666
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 879666 in nova (Ubuntu Precise) "chown error for console.fifo when launching vm" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/879666
<Daviey> rbasak: ^6 ?
<Daviey> did you patch get re-added?  zul ?
<rbasak> zul is taking this for precise; I have yet to rebase my patch for oneiric
<zul> Daviey: working on it now
<Daviey> cool
<smoser> k
<smoser> bug 916489
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 916489 in ipxe (Ubuntu) "grub-ipxe says "B: command not found"" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/916489
<zul> rbasak: ill do oneiric as well
<smoser> lynxman,
<rbasak> thanks zul!
 * rbasak owes zul a beer
<Daviey> jamespage: How is lynxman's ipxe upload?
<lynxman> smoser: still need to finish some comments on the new ipxe package, as soon as those are done this bug will be fixed
<zul> rbasak: more than one
<smoser> lynxman, gracias
<Daviey> lynxman: can this be done by EoW?
<smoser> bug 924375
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 924375 in cloud-init (Ubuntu) "cloud-init should allow pre-seeding of ec2 datasource:Ec2:metadata_urls" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/924375
 * smoser waits on lynxman
<smoser> cloud-init bug i'll have that fixed in cloud-init by feature freeze.
<lynxman> Daviey: will try but cant say
<smoser> bug 926160
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 926160 in Ubuntu "precise cloud-images significantly larger than oneiric" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/926160
<Daviey> smoser: you are king.
<Daviey> lynxman: We are depending on you :)
<smoser> utlemming, can i assign that to you for further invfestigation?
<utlemming> smoser: yup
<smoser> take a look at that bug, it is interesting.
<lynxman> Daviey: I have zero allowance from management on this one, will try to push a nighter to do it :)
<smoser> the 'du --apparent-size' of / on oneiric and precise is very similar, but 'df' reports a completely different story.
<smoser> bug 833499
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 833499 in OpenStack Compute (nova) "virt/disk.py unconditionally inserts public_keys into /root/.ssh/authorized_keys" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/833499
<smoser> i dont think that is going to get fixed up stream unless one of us do it.
<smoser> and i think it'd be a feature request too...
<smoser> so..
<smoser> i tihnk we should take it off this list for essex/precise. its low enough priority with the cloud-init work around
<smoser> Daviey, ?
<smoser> bug 901881
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 901881 in glance (Ubuntu) "nova should depend on python-keystone" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/901881
<Daviey> smoser: how importiant?
<smoser> low at best
<Daviey> smoser: it's not a feature IMO
<Daviey> smoser: lets utrack it.
<smoser> it is a feature from openstack perspective.
<Daviey> untack
<smoser> that bug is fix-released
<smoser> why is it in this list?
<smoser> er... why is ther ea glace task
<smoser> adam_g, ?
<Daviey> smoser: glance has the same bug
<Daviey> the title doesn't reflect it
<smoser> ah. k. so who is driving that fix?
<Daviey> zul: Did you say there was a pending upload?
<Daviey> (which should now be in the archive?)
<zul> still waiting for keystonelight
<adam_g> isn't keystone is still going thru MIR, probably a new MIR?
<Daviey> zul: uh?
<Daviey> glance is blocked on keystonelight?
<zul> it shouldnt be and isnt
<zul> keystone needs a new security review as well
 * Daviey confused.
<zul> as am i
<zul> can we talk about it after the meeting?
<Daviey> zul: k
<zul> still juggling alot of plates
<smoser> bug 889644
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 889644 in openmpi (Ubuntu) "Please update OpenMPI to the 1.5 upstream version" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/889644
<smoser> that has the honorable rbasak assigned
<rbasak> I can't remember if this has progressed since last week.
<Daviey> smoser: i read that as horrible !
<smoser> k. please poke at it a bit and see if you can't make it do so.
<rbasak> I have a PPA build that succeeds. Need to try rdepend builds against it next.
<rbasak> Readers should note that I have no means of actually testing any of these packages apart from that they build.
<smoser> Daviey, if you dont have anything nice to say dont say anything at all
<Daviey> rbasak: if it compiles, lets ship it :)
<rbasak> I'd appreciate input from stakeholders on testing - otherwise they won't get tested.
<smoser> bug 887186
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 887186 in orchestra (Ubuntu) "squid proxy big and small buckets not functioning correctly" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/887186
<smoser> rbasak, make sure you just ask the opener for testing your ppa build.
<smoser> roaksoax, ^
<rbasak> opener?
<smoser> ah. oh yeah, dave walker was opener.
<smoser> regarding squid proxy, there is a thread on an internal canonical mailing list that i tihnk might get orchestra-proxy moving in a different manner.
<smoser> or at least help us collect some information.
<Daviey> smoser: we should probably move on?
<smoser> yep
<roaksoax> smoser: upstream issue
<smoser> roaksoax, pleaes open upstream bug or task then ?
<roaksoax> smoser: i'm yet unsuare whether we should have a newer upstream release which supposedly fixes that
<smoser> k.
<smoser> well poke a bit please.
<roaksoax> due to the latest issues we've been experiencing
<roaksoax> smoser: will do
<smoser> i think thats all we hae vor this section
<smoser> thank fully
<smoser> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Ubuntu Server Team Events
<smoser> anyone have anything here?
<smoser> k. looks like nothing.
<Daviey> Thankfully, no
<smoser> me moving on.
<smoser> hggdh,
<smoser> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<smoser> i'll just state here that the openstack jenkins stuff is awesome.
<smoser> big round of applause to adam_g zul jamespage
<arosales> +1
<smb> \o/
<smoser> and surely others that I am missing and who can swear at me later.
<smoser> for the reference: https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Precise%20OpenStack%20Testing/
<koolhead17> adam_g: i need the doc though 4 charm deployment :P
<smoser> smb, is up  now
<Daviey> \o/
<smoser> [TOPIC]
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<smoser> Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<smb>  * Trying to hunt down why libvirt-bin needs to be restarted before it
<smb>    gives me running domU's, I first removed all the other error sources
<smb>    from the logs. One was my fault of experimenting with qemu-dm paths.
<smb>  * Other source was libvirt insisting in running pm-is-supported from
<smb>    pm-utils without insisting (depending) on installing it.
<smb>    Question is that pebcak or something worth adding to libvirt-bin's
<smb>    runtime dependencies?
<smb>  * Currently looking at remoteDispatchNumOfDomainsHelper which should
<smb>    give one the IDs of guests but only seems to do that after restarting
<smb>    libvirtd. The call to remoteDispatchNumOfDefinedDomainsHelper on the
<smb>    other hand works all the time.
<smb> ..
<smoser> smb, it was failing ?
<smoser> i really cant see that (libvirt due to pm-is-supported)
<smb> smoser, No, that was just cluttering the log
<smoser> i'm almost certain i've run vms on generally headless systems. if it fails, please open a bug. if it just warns, then suggests or recommends is probably right.
<smb> So its more cosmetical
<smoser> cosmetical
<smoser> nice.
<smoser> smb, well i dont have anything for you.
<smoser> but i am remembering this bug
<Daviey> smb: Have a bug number?
 * smb likes the sound of that
<Daviey> smoser is off form.
<smoser> bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cloud-init/+bug/898373
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 898373 in cloud-init (Ubuntu) "fsck.ext3: Device or resource busy while trying to open /dev/xvda2" [High,Confirmed]
<smb> Daviey, Not for the pm-utils dependency. I was not sure this is really that important
<smoser> that is not related to kernel, but Daviey probably should be tracked
<smoser> i'll get it into a beter state, updated with the info i have in my head
<smoser> and one other bug will come out of it
<smb> smoser, Hm, not sure I remember that one
<smoser> smb, not kernel related.
<smoser> just was thinking about it as i was thinking of "why does ec2 suck sometimes"
<smoser> as usually i blame smb for that ;)
<smb> heh :)
<Daviey> Aww, meanie
<smoser> ARM!
<smoser> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
<Daviey> rbasak: have you fixed ARM?
<smoser> i have some stuff to fill in here if rbasak does not type in 3
<smoser> 2
<smoser> 1
<smoser> it looks like we're going to move the cloud-images output for arm from armel to armhf.
 * justinlw yay
<jamespage> \o/
<Daviey> smoser: seems to make sense to me
<rbasak> Sorry, pee break
<Daviey> utlemming: ?
<smoser> as, other than oracle's jvm, nothing really needs soft float
<rbasak> Yeah, it's fixed. You do mean my panda, right? :)
<smoser> and rbasak claims that we can potentially still support that with multi-arch
<Daviey> smoser: hmm, oracle's jvm doesn't work with armel?
<Daviey> err, armhf
<smoser> only with armel
<jamespage> not yet
<Daviey> that is suck.
<utlemming> robie had some thoughts about multi-arch there
<Daviey> ok
<rbasak> In that it should in theory work
<smoser> theories are always nice to have
<utlemming> but its not tested
<smoser> anything else?
<jamespage> speaking of java on arm; openjdk on precise has now switched back to the zero JVM with the thumb2 intepreter
<rbasak> But it looks like armhf (gnueabihf) will be the ARM server standard
<smoser> darn
<rbasak> So Oracle would be crazy to not support it.
<Daviey> lets progress, seems in hand.
<smoser> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Open Discussion
<jamespage> it passes the Java TCK so if currently the best we have in archive
<smoser> now HERE is where utlemming or arosales could chime in
<arosales> :-)
<jamespage> I have something!
<Daviey> jamespage: we all do
 * SpamapS hopes its a pony
<rbasak> Welcome justinlw!
<smoser> welcome justinlw
<arosales> wecome justinlw :-)
<adam_g> welcome!
<SpamapS> justinlw: AHOY!
<Daviey> justinlw: Fancy introducing yourself?
<utlemming> +1
 * justinlw Came from Amazon KaOS & EC2 (worked w/utlemming).
<Daviey> exciting!
<koolhead17> is justinlw now with canonical?
 * justinlw Have done some work w/Calxeda Qemu and am becoming ARM (semi)Literate
<justinlw> koolhead17: yes
<koolhead17> cool
 * justinlw will be tugging on sleeeves for some ramp-up work-flow, etc. help
<smoser> anything else?
 * justinlw kind to puppies
<smoser> other wise...
 * SpamapS will be happy to turn the fire hose on justinlw now
<SpamapS> ok
<SpamapS> we should be done now
<Daviey> lets go home!
<smoser> please all join us next week
<smoser> at this same time
<smoser> same channel
<justinlw> l8r
<Daviey> for another exciting installment
<smoser> [TOPIC] Announce next meeting date and time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
<Daviey> etc
<Daviey> smoser: Who si chair next week?
<smoser> $NOW + 7*24*60*60-60*60
<smoser> next weeks chair is not me
<smoser> looks like utlemming
<SpamapS> Heh.. not me, but come march when DST starts I'll be chair for like 6 straight weeks :-P
<Daviey> SpamapS: happy times.
<zul> as it should be
<smoser> although urshina doesn't move herself off the top of the list
<smoser> so...
<smoser> really...
<Ursinha> I can do that
<smoser> you only have to do it if you dont want to chair indefinitely
<smoser> :)
<smoser> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Feb  7 17:01:30 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-07-16.06.moin.txt
<smoser> thank you, and good night.
<Ursinha> lol
<jamespage> cheerio folks!
<Ursinha> thanks smb
<Ursinha> oops
<Ursinha> smoser,
<Ursinha> smb as well :P
<arosales> thanks smoser
 * smb always takes any thanks he can get :)
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Feb  7 17:02:00 2012 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Precise
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<tgardner> o/
<herton> o/
<smb> Ão
<ppisati> o/
<apw> o/
<ogasawara> o/
<bjf> \o/
<sforshee> o/
<cking> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> UUID support: Found a way to support an initrd-less kernel using GPT, an hybrid mbr and the ROOTUUID boot parameter, kernel seems to be good already.
<ppisati> lp709245 ("ARM SMP scheduler performance bug"): Still bisecting latest P kernel trying to find where the fix for this issue has been embedded in the TI BSP - whenever i turn on the the corresponding upstream errata (PL310_ERRATA_769419) the kernel hangs on boot, so there must be a previous patch clashing in there. Now i'm down to a ~160 commits window.
<ppisati> P/omap4: Nothing new to report this week.
<ppisati> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/canonical-kernel-distro-team-ubuntu-12.04-beta-1.html
<ogasawara> || apw        || hardware-p-kernel-boot                || 2 work items ||
<ogasawara> ||            || hardware-p-kernel-config-review       || 3 work items ||
<ogasawara> ||            || hardware-p-kernel-delta-review        || 2 work items ||
<ogasawara> || ogasawara  || hardware-p-kernel-config-review       || 4 work items ||
<ogasawara> || sconklin   || servercloud-p-ceph                    || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> || tgardner   || hardware-p-kernel-delta-review        || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> If your name is in the above table, please review your Beta-1 work items.
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Blueprint: hardware-p-kernel-power-management (cking)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Blueprint: hardware-p-kernel-power-management (cking)
<cking> Power Management:
<cking>  * CPU governor testing (Intel only) (will test AMD CPUs later)
<cking>    http://zinc.canonical.com/~cking/power-benchmarking/cpu-governor/results.txt
<cking> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Precise Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Precise Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> Last week we rebased to v3.2.4 and uploaded.  We've recently rebased to v3.2.5 and plan to upload shortly.  Note that Beta-1 is on the horizon with Beta Freeze approximately 2 weeks away.  We'll be prepping our Beta-1 kernel next week.  If there are any patches which need to land, submit them now.
<ogasawara> I'd like to also note that we've opened the Q git repo for anyone interested (git://kernel.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ubuntu-q.git).  At this time, it is strictly for development/testing purposes only and will not be supported until Q officially opens in the archive.
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara>  * Thurs Feb 23 - Beta Freeze (~2 weeks)
<ogasawara>  * Thurs Mar 01 - Beta 1
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's (apw)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's (apw)
<apw> Currently we have 73 CVEs on our radar, six new CVEs were added this week.
<apw> See the CVE matrix for the current list:
<apw>  
<apw> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<apw>  
<apw> Overall we have pushed the backlog down by approximatly 2 CVEs this week:
<apw>  
<apw> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/status/cve-metrics.txt
<apw> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/CVE-linux.txt
<apw>  
<apw> We have also pushed another CVE back to security for review.  This backlog
<apw> is increasing.
<apw>  
<apw> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Oneiric/Natty/Maverick/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/herton)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Oneiric/Natty/Maverick/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/herton)
<bjf> Here is the status for the main kernels, until today (Jan. 24):
<bjf>  
<bjf>  * Hardy - 2.6.24-30.98
<bjf>   * Nothing new this cycle.
<bjf>  
<bjf>  * Lucid - 2.6.32-38.85
<bjf>   * Proposed is frozen due to 10.04.4 prep.
<bjf>  
<bjf>  * Maverick - 2.6.35-32.65
<bjf>   * Regression testing.
<bjf>  
<bjf>  * Natty - 2.6.38-13.55
<bjf>   * Regression testing.
<bjf>             
<bjf>  * Oneiric - 3.0.0-16.27
<bjf>   * Regression testing.
<bjf>  
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>  * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf>   
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>  * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<bjf>  
<bjf> Future stable cadence cycles:
<bjf>  * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseInterlock
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> OK, Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Feb  7 17:07:59 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-07-17.02.moin.txt
<cancer> when is the meeting going to be held according to IST
<czajkowski> highvoltage: stgraber meeting reminder
<vibhav> Is today the EMEA meeting?
<TadeasParik> vibhav, It should be, I hope :)
<czajkowski> yes in less than 20 mins
 * vibhav gives everybody popcorn
<stgraber> czajkowski: highvoltage won't be there. "19:14 < highvoltage> stgraber: could you pleade pass my excuses to the emra rmb meeting? Im running hopelessly late"
<czajkowski> stgraber: cheers, dont see iulian or drubin  yet
<vibhav> Its 1:15 Am here
<czajkowski> vibhav: aye times don't always work for people, but it's one meeting and hopefully worth it
<beuno> we should get sponsored by a coffee company
<vibhav> hahaha
<czajkowski> beuno: TEA!
<beuno> well, if you really want to stay awake, I suggest: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mate_%28beverage%29
<vibhav> both cold and hot water extractions of popular commercial yerba mate products contained high levels (8.03 to 53.3 ng/g dry leaves) of carcinogenic polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons
<iainfarrell_> sounds like a dangerous scientific mix :)
<iainfarrell_> hi everyone
<vibhav> This. Is. It.
 * vibhav wishes everybody good luck
 * iainfarrell_ rather hopes he won't need it :)
 * iainfarrell_ crosses fingers and toes
<czajkowski> ogra_: stgraber drubin  ping
<czajkowski> beuno: we may need you also
<knome> oh, it's thee iainfarrell_ :)
<beuno> sure thing
 * jussi hides from knome
 * vibhav googles knome
<iainfarrell_> hey knome  :)
<knome> hai!
<iainfarrell_> it is if that's a good thing
 * iainfarrell_ changes name
<iainfarrell_> :)
<czajkowski> hmm dinner is late and going to be delievered mid meeting, joy!
<knome> hah, hei jussi :P
<vibhav> oh , thats a nick
<vibhav> its almost time
<iainfarrell_> vibhav, do you know something we don't? :)
<iainfarrell_> sounds serious
<knome> iainfarrell_, EMEA board meeting?
<vibhav> yeah
<beuno> vibhav, it seems you applied to the Americas board a few weeks ago
<iainfarrell_> knome, yeah, was kidding, I meant the tone  :)
<knome> ;)
<vibhav> beuno: yeah  , BUt they turned me down because I was not attending FOSS events
<vibhav> But now I updated my wiki
<knome> iainfarrell_, btw... finally released some days ago: http://xubuntu.org/
<beuno> vibhav, so I think the reasons you didn't get membership still apply, 2 weeks later
<iainfarrell_> knome, cool!
<iainfarrell_> knome, nice to see it up and running, we're running it on a server in the office at the moment
<knome> iainfarrell_, yeah (and thanks)! we were quite excited about it, and now it's finally ready. now to fix the content though... ;)
<vibhav> beuno: Could I PM you?
<knome> iainfarrell_, hah, then don't kick it around :P
<czajkowski> vibhav: this is the opion of the others on the board also vibhav
<beuno> vibhav, you can, but this is involves the whole board  :)
<czajkowski> beuno: can you chair ?
<iainfarrell_> knome, well I won't
<czajkowski> *pretty* please!
<iainfarrell_> a colleague will
<beuno> yes I can
<beuno> if I remember all the right commands!
<knome> iainfarrell_, ah, yeah, delegating... :)
<iainfarrell_> knome, to someone who knows what a server is ;)
<pangolin> The reason was not because you were not attending physical events, they wanted to see more participation with other users. attending/helping with events was just one of the things they suggested
 * knome will shut up to give way to the meeting
<czajkowski> ok ok folks can we please start the meeting
<czajkowski> and leave the jibber jabber for a but
<czajkowski> *bit
<knome> iainfarrell_, feel free to chat around @ #xubuntu-devel if interested ;)
 * knome zips mouth
<pangolin> ^
 * vibhav sips coffee
<beuno> alright, lets get this party started
<beuno> #startmeering
<beuno> bad start
<beuno> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Feb  7 20:02:53 2012 UTC.  The chair is beuno. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<iainfarrell_> LOL
 * stgraber waves
<vibhav> ^
<vibhav> ^^^
<beuno> iainfarrell_, you seem to be up first!
<czajkowski> ok let see if we have enough
 * knome waves to stgraber, but very silently
<iainfarrell_> indeed :)
<czajkowski> stgraber: Pendulum myself and beuno
<czajkowski> yup
<beuno> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/EMEA
<beuno> iainfarrell_, tell us about yourself!
<czajkowski> iainfarrell_: welcome, thanks for making it, I know you;ve been on this list now since october! :)
<iainfarrell_> well beuno and others
<beuno> #topic iainfarrell's application
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: iainfarrell's application
<iainfarrell_> My name's Iain and I've been an Ubuntu user full time I'd say for about 3 years
<iainfarrell_> and played before that
<iainfarrell_> as an aside I recently started playing Eve online
<beuno> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IainFarrell
<iainfarrell_> and last time I tried it
<iainfarrell_> it was so hard
<iainfarrell_> I stopped playing
<iainfarrell_> and instead installed this new distro
<iainfarrell_> raved about on Digg
<iainfarrell_> called Ubuntu :)
<iainfarrell_> and that's what I love about it, it just works
<iainfarrell_> and this community is exciting and I want to stay a part of it
<iainfarrell_> even though I no longer work for Canonical
<iainfarrell_> as before I want to contribute and mainly in the area of adding photos to our desktop
<iainfarrell_> and helping contribute to its distinctiveness
<Pendulum> win 52
 * beuno hugs Pendulum 
<beuno> iainfarrell_, great to still see you around post-Canonical
<iainfarrell_> I'm also running the wallpaper contributions process at the mo
<czajkowski> iainfarrell_: can you tell us about the wallpaper and your role in that ?
<iainfarrell_> we've got over 1000 entries already and it doesn't close until March :)
<iainfarrell_> yeah
<iainfarrell_> so about 4 releases ago
<iainfarrell_> we decided that the community contributions needed a boost and we'd talked at UDS about what could be done
<iainfarrell_> I decided to see if a small set of beautiful wallpapers could be pulled together
<iainfarrell_> I felt it would really add
<iainfarrell_> and it's something that's reasonably straight forward to run
<iainfarrell_> it's also something that people who aren't technical can contribute to
<iainfarrell_> because there's a lot of that still today
<czajkowski> iainfarrell_: great stuff
<iainfarrell_> I see it on the ubuntu-artwork list and chat rooms all the time
<czajkowski> iainfarrell_: so how do you see your role in the community going forward?
<iainfarrell_> and I've run it ever since
<iainfarrell_> well continue to do that
<iainfarrell_> I'm also talking to the guys at 500px about pulling together the first of a curated collection
<iainfarrell_> which would be a gift to the community if you like
<iainfarrell_> it wouldn't fit on the ISO
<iainfarrell_> but would be lovely high res images
<iainfarrell_> which we source from pro photographers
<iainfarrell_> and we give away
<iainfarrell_> it promotes us and the very powerful technical and creative tools we offer
<iainfarrell_> to an audience who've never heard of us
<iainfarrell_> and are tinkerers by nature
<iainfarrell_> they think this free tool made by a bunch of us
<iainfarrell_> who are all over the world
<iainfarrell_> and barely see each other
<iainfarrell_> is quite a cool thing
<iainfarrell_> and that's why I also want to get more involved in DarkTable
<iainfarrell_> which is a really cool project and you should all check it out
<iainfarrell_> it's a very very powerful photo editing tool
<Azzurrio_> cool
<iainfarrell_> I could go on but then I do that, I'm easily excited :)
<beuno> cool cool
<iainfarrell_> so do tell me to stop :)
<beuno> iainfarrell_, you involved at all the LoCo?
<t4nk061> hot
<iainfarrell_> not regularly since I left London, I usually was a conduit for them to get to people in the building for catching up :)
<iainfarrell_> for example if one was trying to track down Ivanka or Charline or someone
<iainfarrell_> now I live in the north east too and they're mostly further south
<iainfarrell_> so I'm not sure where I'd help but I'd be very happy to pitch in
<iainfarrell_> to be honest, with the move I've not really looked into any groups locally
<iainfarrell_> it's quite rural where I am now
<iainfarrell_> but we use Ubuntu at work on all our dev machines
<iainfarrell_> which is pretty cool :)
<beuno> indeed!
<beuno> alright
<beuno> time to vote
<iainfarrell_> so I advocate in a professional space
 * iainfarrell_ shuts up :)
<beuno> #voters czajkowski Pendulum stgraber beuno
<meetingology> Current voters: Pendulum beuno czajkowski stgraber
<beuno> #vote o
<meetingology> Please vote on: o
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<beuno> #vote Iain Farrel's application
<beuno> bah
<meetingology> Voting still open on: o
<beuno> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: o
<meetingology> Votes for:0 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Deadlock, casting vote may be used
<beuno> #vote Iain Farrel's application
<meetingology> Please vote on: Iain Farrel's application
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<beuno> ok, now  :)
<beuno> +1 from me
<meetingology> +1 from me received from beuno
<Pendulum> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Pendulum
<stgraber> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
<beuno> and I have: 20:11 < czajkowski> I'm +1
<beuno> she just went off for a bit
<beuno> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Iain Farrel's application
<meetingology> Votes for:3 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<beuno> welcome iainfarrell_!
<knome> iainfarrell_, congrats
<Tm_T> iainfarrell_: congrats
 * vibhav hugs iainfarrell_ 
<iainfarrell_> Yay! many thanks beuno and knome and Tm_T
<iainfarrell_> very pleased and excited
<Katchup> -1
 * iainfarrell_ pops a cork
<beuno> no jo-erland?
<Pendulum> iainfarrell_: congrats!
<iainfarrell_> Cheers Pendulum :)
<Katchup> iainfarrell_: congrats
<beuno> GunnarHj, you around?
<GunnarHj> Sure. Hi all!
<beuno> #topic GunnarHj's application
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: GunnarHj's application
<beuno> GunnarHj, tell us about yourself!
<GunnarHj> I'm Gunnar Hjalmarsson, a Swedish fellow living in Gothenburg.
<GunnarHj> Have used Ubuntu for about 1.5 years, and been involved in (mostly) i18n related patching and bugfixing for almost as long period.
<GunnarHj> Applied last July, but was turned down (zeroes). Since then I have basically kept doing the same kind of work; the good news is that there are a few testimonials on the wiki page this time.
<czajkowski> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GunnarHj
<beuno> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GunnarHj
<czajkowski> GunnarHj: so mainly in bugs and translations?
<GunnarHj> Well, not translations exactly. It's more about the interfaces for setting languages etc.
<GunnarHj> So it's about making the translations easily available to the users.
<Tm_T> GunnarHj: basicly the work that has to be done so translations can be done?
<GunnarHj> Yes.
<czajkowski> GunnarHj: are you involved in other areas in the Ubuntu community, such as your locoteam?
<GunnarHj> I'm a member of the Swedish team, but haven't yet been active there.
<czajkowski> so how do you feel Ubuntu membership will help you and the community ? or does it have any effect?
<GunnarHj> Spent too much time on the dev. stuff, I think.
<beuno> GunnarHj, a testimonial from pitti is pretty impressice!
<beuno> and impressive
<GunnarHj> It would be a showed appreciation of my contribution, and would likely make me more inclined to keep on and entering new areas of contributions.
<czajkowski> GunnarHj: what other areas would you look at
<GunnarHj> Can't tell right now. You could say that I have been a driver of certain matters, and right now I'm occupied with ensuring that they make it into 12.04.
<czajkowski> what are they ?
<czajkowski> GunnarHj: I'm just trying to ask what areas you'd like to get into in the community
<GunnarHj> In summary it's about providing bug free user interfaces for changing languages and settings for regional formats. Those things were buggy in 10.04, and we have gradually god rid of most of the bugs.
<beuno> that's super valuable work
<beuno> lets vote!
<beuno> #vote
<meetingology> Please vote on:
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<GunnarHj> One thing that has made it more complicated is that the underlying architecture has changed.
<beuno> +1
<stgraber> +1
 * beuno slaps meetingology 
<czajkowski> +1 but would like to see other areas explored
<Pendulum> +1
<beuno> #endbote
<beuno> #endvote
<meetingology> No vote in progress
<beuno> sorry folks, sucking today at typing
<beuno> GunnarHj, congrats!
<czajkowski> GunnarHj: congrats
<GunnarHj> Thanks! It makes me very happy and flattered. :)
<iainfarrell_> well done GunnarHj  :)
<GunnarHj> And yes, I will dig in more areas soon.
<czajkowski> thanks
<beuno> EgyParadox, you around?
<EgyParadox> Yes I am here
<beuno> sweet
<GunnarHj> Thanks for you time, guys!
<beuno> #topic EgyParadox's application
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: EgyParadox's application
<beuno> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EgyParadox
<czajkowski> EgyParadox: welcome thanks for coming along
<EgyParadox> :)
<beuno> EgyParadox, tell us about yourself
<EgyParadox> My name is Omar Mohsen, I started using Ubuntu about 6 years ago
<EgyParadox> I joined the Egyptian LoCo team about 2 years ago
<EgyParadox> My contribution is mainly support through different ways
<EgyParadox> through IRC, events
<EgyParadox> I also administer our social media pages
<czajkowski> EgyParadox: so you help grow the locoteam?
<EgyParadox> yes czajkowski
<czajkowski> EgyParadox: what would you like to do to help your team, and get more people involved in your community ?
<EgyParadox> organize more events
<beuno> EgyParadox, you're involved in both the Egypt and Malaysian LoCo's?
<EgyParadox> I wanted to be involved in the Malaysian LoCo but I no longer live there
<beuno> ah, I see  :)
<beuno> EgyParadox, got quite a few testimonials as well!
<mgamal> guys
<EgyParadox> I provided IRC support for about 2 years
<czajkowski> EgyParadox: last question, what do you plan to do in the future to help your team? anything specific ?
<mgamal> sorry to interfere
<czajkowski> mgamal: we're in the middle of an appliction, is it regarding EgyParadox ?
<mgamal> yes
<mgamal> I just wanted to say I didn't have time to write my testimonial
<mgamal> but I'd like to tell EgyParadox he was such a great team mate in the Egyptian LoCo :)
<mgamal> he contributed a lot to the LoCo's social media presence
<mgamal> and he helped get us about 2000 followers on our FB pages and twitter
<czajkowski> mgamal: thanks
<czajkowski> beuno: ready to vote
<beuno> k
<beuno> #vote EgyParadox's application
<meetingology> Please vote on: EgyParadox's application
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<czajkowski> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from czajkowski
<beuno> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from beuno
<Pendulum> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Pendulum
<stgraber> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
 * beuno tickes stgraber 
 * czajkowski pokes beuno end vote
<beuno> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: EgyParadox's application
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<beuno> congrats EgyParadox!
<czajkowski> TadeasParik: you about ?
<TadeasParik> yes, I am here
<thelinuxer> congrats EgyParadox :)
<EgyParadox> Thanks beuno strgraber Pendulum
<beuno> #topic TadeasParik's application
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: TadeasParik's application
<EgyParadox> Thanks thelinuxer
<Wazery> congrats EgyParadox :)
<beuno> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TadeasParik
<TadeasParik> can I start?
<czajkowski> TadeasParik: yup thanks for coming
<beuno> TadeasParik, yes!
<czajkowski> TadeasParik: can you tell us a little bit about yourself ?
<czajkowski> please
<TadeasParik> ok, so my name is TadeÃ¡Å¡ PaÅÃ­k, 26 years old, Prague, Czech republic
<TadeasParik> I use Ubuntu from 8.04 and from 2008 I am active member of our Czech Ubuntu forum where I help with the standard problems, from this year I am also on Launchpad
<TadeasParik> from 2010 I am active moderator of this forum and from 2011 I am admin of this forum and of all ubuntu official pages in Czech republic (ubuntu.cz, facebook, G+ pages, Czech Ubuntu wiki etc.)
<TadeasParik> I am especially involved in all official events/meetings/presentations about Ubuntu in the Czech republic (I represented Ubuntu onLinuxExpo conference, there were also other distros and Microsoft)
<TadeasParik> and also in non official, e.g. we have special Ubuntu beer event in Prague
<beuno> TadeasParik, have you by any chance met Jenda?
<TadeasParik> I know him from our forum, but unfortunately he is not active memeber now...
<vojtech_t> Jenda is unfortunately long time inactive
<beuno> yeah, I know
<beuno> thought maybe he'd still go to the parties for the beer at least :)
<TadeasParik> I helped to organise two release party in Czech republic, during the first one I was presenting about new Ubuntu 11.04 and for the second one I found the place and I was fronting this action
<TadeasParik> there were some articles on Czech IT portals
<TadeasParik> on Launchpad I am a member of translation team
<beuno> TadeasParik, you seem to only have one testimonial (although a strong one)
<beuno> is the .cz LoCo small?
<TadeasParik> so we are preparing czech localization
<vojtech_t> it's because there are only few active ubunteros in the czech rep.
<vojtech_t> and i'm the only one active ubuntu member
<czajkowski> it's an approved loco
<TadeasParik> yes, there is only Vojta and me...
<czajkowski> vojtech_t: you dont have to be an approved member to leave a comment
<TadeasParik> I mean active members...
<czajkowski> anyone can leave a testimonal on a wiki page
<czajkowski> for an approved loco there are only 2 active members....
<beuno> vojtech_t, so I guess you're a strong supporter of TadeasParik?
<vojtech_t> czajkowski, we have about 5-10 really active people
<TadeasParik> for me it is life's hobby...
<vojtech_t> beuno: yes
<beuno> awesome
<beuno> TadeasParik, what does the future look like to you?
<vojtech_t> czajkowski, maybe it's my fault, because i thought only ubuntu members can write testimonials
<TadeasParik> I would like to finish our Czech localization, now we are preparing next GlobalJam and we started with preparations for Release party...
<beuno> vojtech_t, that's fine, you think there's more fans out there then?
<TadeasParik> and I would like to find more active people here for our LoCo
<beuno> maybe we can trick jenda to getting involved again  :)
<vojtech_t> beuno, yes, as forum administrator tadeas is really popular
<czajkowski> beuno: shall we vote
<beuno> lets!
<beuno> #vote TadeasParik's application
<meetingology> Please vote on: TadeasParik's application
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<vojtech_t> beuno: i don't know, he is married, works as lawyer, i think he hasn't much spare time for ubuntu
<beuno> +1 from me
<meetingology> +1 from me received from beuno
<czajkowski> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from czajkowski
<Pendulum> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Pendulum
<stgraber> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
<beuno> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: TadeasParik's application
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<beuno> TadeasParik, welcome  \o/
<vojtech_t> congrats
<iainfarrell_> yay :)
<TadeasParik> thanks a lot!!
<iainfarrell_> well done TadeasParik
<czajkowski> TadeasParik: well done
<beuno> vibhav, you're the last one on the list, but I think the concerns from the Americas board still stand 2 weeks later
<vibhav> TadeasParik: congrats
<beuno> vibhav, I'd take them into consideration and re-apply in a few months
<vibhav> Well , Actually , interaction is something I fail at
<beuno> and with that
<beuno> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Feb  7 21:00:18 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-07-20.02.moin.txt
<vibhav> Thats why I chose translations
<czajkowski> vibhav: I beleive you can still interact within the community online and with translations
<czajkowski> nobody said you have to meet in RL
<beuno> vibhav, right, it's really hard to be part of a community if you're not good at interacting
<vibhav> czajkowski: Thats what I do
<beuno> congrats again iainfarrell_, GunnarHj, EgyParadox, TadeasParik
<vibhav> I have been translating for the past 7 months
<vibhav> https://launchpad.net/~vibhavp/+karma
<iainfarrell_> thanks
<czajkowski> iainfarrell_: thanks
<czajkowski> stgraber: you about
<TadeasParik> beuno, thank you
<GunnarHj> Thanks again, folks!
<iainfarrell_> thanks beuno and czajkowski :)
<iainfarrell_> and have a great evening everyone :)
 * vibhav goes to sleep
<pangolin> vibhav: keep up the good work and try to get more involved with your loco and the loco channel, talk to the existing team lead and see if there is anything you can do to help them increase Ubuntu usage.
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-02-08
<duanedesign>  Beginners Team Meeeting  o/
<Unit193> \o
<ashickur-noor> \o
<JoseeAntonioR> o/
<duanedesign> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Feb  8 00:05:48 2012 UTC.  The chair is duanedesign. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<JoseeAntonioR> so, we're only 4 here
<ashickur-noor> yap
<duanedesign> #meetingtopic Beginners Team February Meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Beginners Team February Meeting Meeting | Current topic:
<JoseeAntonioR> so, what are we going to discuss today?
<duanedesign> I wanted to talk about the mentor/guides/student
<ashickur-noor> +1
<duanedesign> and how we guide new people who come into the channel or email us after they  find our wiki
<JoseeAntonioR> maybe having a welcome page for beginners
<ashickur-noor> wiki page is enough I think
<ashickur-noor> for welcome
<JoseeAntonioR> +1
<JoseeAntonioR> a wiki page where we say hello, and specify what can people do for support, or for community collaboration
<duanedesign> #topic Guiding Ubuntu Users New to the Community
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Beginners Team February Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Guiding Ubuntu Users New to the Community
<duanedesign> We have, and many team, tried the 1 mentor 1 apprentice thing
<duanedesign> wherre someone signs a waiting list and waits to be assigned or picked up by a mentor
<duanedesign> it is very hard to keep up with
<JoseeAntonioR> that's a good idea, but, as you said, we would need a lot of people
<ashickur-noor> hum
<duanedesign> The Bug Squad has been using their Mailing List more extensively
<ashickur-noor> But this is our problem
<duanedesign> That way users do not have to wait
<ashickur-noor> people
<JoseeAntonioR> waiting list is a pretty good idea, but it would need to be managed in a different way
<JoseeAntonioR> so we don't have that big problem
<duanedesign> The problem has been not enough mentors
<JoseeAntonioR> exactly
<ashickur-noor> +1 JoseeAntonioR
<JoseeAntonioR> people are 50/50 satisfied with LP answers, but they complain about not getting an instant answer
<JoseeAntonioR> and sometimes, it's something they could have found out just by searching
<duanedesign> The Bug Squad during the Natty cycle started https://launchpad.net/~bugsquad-mentorship-group-alpha
<ashickur-noor> yes this is why we are here
<ashickur-noor> yo give support to the new
<duanedesign> the idea behind what the Bug Squad did was to have a handful of mentors help a larger group of apprentices
<JoseeAntonioR> something like 1 mentor with 3 or 5 apprentices?
<ashickur-noor> So wee need mentor
<duanedesign> I think this is a good idea. Instead of having one mentor one apprentice
<duanedesign> JoseeAntonioR: right
<ashickur-noor> +1
<JoseeAntonioR> if we start something like that, we need something like a schedule
<ashickur-noor> Like
<duanedesign> I think we could use the team mailing list and everyone pitches in to help answer quesations for those people looking to get started in the community
<ashickur-noor> When which mentor will be present?
<JoseeAntonioR> I have noticed something
<duanedesign> i think we could be informal. Everyone help out when they can.
<duanedesign> Hopefully we would all try and check the list regularly
<ashickur-noor> It is our regular task
<JoseeAntonioR> when people is redirected to the IRC, they normally enter the #ubuntu channel, and they ask very basic questions
<ashickur-noor> But there is hardly mail in the list
<JoseeAntonioR> it would be good if someone who is usually in the channel redirects that person to #ubuntu-beginners
<duanedesign> another issue with the current list is people feel like they can not get started working in the community until they get a mentor
<ashickur-noor> one thing we can do
<Unit193> JoseeAntonioR: They can get help both places, and there are more to help in #u
<JoseeAntonioR> duanedesign that's what I felt last year, as I didn't know where to start
<ashickur-noor> we can divert people from #ubuntu to here
<Unit193> duanedesign: Zone defence style
<JoseeAntonioR> exactly, ashickur-noor
<Unit193> I do not like the idea of redirecting people from another channel
<ashickur-noor> I proposed it #u is too busy
<duanedesign> The type of help we would be giving on the mamiling list would be people interested in getting involved in the community.
<ashickur-noor> even I don't like to there to take help
<ashickur-noor> unless there is some one here
<duanedesign> ashickur-noor: when you ask a question it is off the screen in a couple seconds
<Unit193> As far as #u goes, they have a lot more people supporting, how many times have you seen a question go unanswered?
<ashickur-noor> One thing we can do
<JoseeAntonioR> duanedesign maybe giving them an introduction to LP
<ashickur-noor> for me some times
<JoseeAntonioR> Unit193 is right. 80% of the time the question is answered.
<duanedesign> JoseeAntonioR: that would be good tool for people to learn early on
<duanedesign> JoseeAntonioR: under 'Guides' https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Mentors
<ashickur-noor> we can do one more thing
<duanedesign> JoseeAntonioR: we have a few things for people new to the community to do
<ashickur-noor> promote this team
<Unit193> And how many times have you seen #u-b go unanswered?
<JoseeAntonioR> Unit193 I have never seen.
<Unit193> I have many times
<ashickur-noor> My experience is same as Unit193
<ashickur-noor> in @ubt
<ashickur-noor> *#ubt
<Unit193> And Team channel isn't exactly for support
<ashickur-noor> it for discussion
<JoseeAntonioR> duanedesign we might put some guides in the wiki, like introduction to lp, how to report bugs, how to answer questions, some tips, irc helping, etc
<ashickur-noor> +1
<duanedesign> JoseeAntonioR: we had a 'sign post' page at one time
<duanedesign> because those pages exist elsewhere on the wiki we just need to find them and link to them
<duanedesign> I would like each Focus Group Page to have a few steps to get people started
<JoseeAntonioR> duanedesign and maybe link the UBT wiki page in the membership page, so people can know where to find some guiding
<duanedesign> if you look at the User Support page it has where users can give support and some resources to help them give support https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Support
<duanedesign> The bugs page a better 'roadmap' under Current Tasks https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Bugs
<Unit193> duanedesign: So you want to move this to group but on the mailing list?
<duanedesign> that way people can help themselves as much as possible :)
<ashickur-noor> :-)
<duanedesign> Unit193: move what?
<Unit193> Currently I see the focus mainly in IRC
<duanedesign> ahh, right
<duanedesign> When people join the Beginners Team and want to get started helping other users I just want to make sure we are doing a good job of getting them started
<JoseeAntonioR> so, new users would have to introduce theirselves in the mailing list?
<duanedesign> My thought was that the guide mentor list is not working very well.
<ashickur-noor> Good idea
<Unit193> Alright, I'm  not saying I'd be agenst doing the mailing list style, just I'm not a mailing list sender
<duanedesign> :)
<duanedesign> I think IRC is optimal if people are present to help
<ashickur-noor> Hum
<duanedesign> but we always had mentors as the safety net.
<Unit193> Also, I noticed #ub gets some people after being banned (for a reason!) from #u
<ashickur-noor> list is also good
<duanedesign> if you couldnt reach someone to answer your question you had a mentor who  volunteeres to help you. I think the mailing List could be that 'safety net'/
<ashickur-noor> +1 duanedesign
<JoseeAntonioR> I think that's great
<Unit193> I would agree that is a good idea
<duanedesign> ok, i will write an email to send to the mailing list to get feedback from the rest of the team
<duanedesign> anyone elsse have anything?>
<ashickur-noor> nope
<JoseeAntonioR> erm, I think I have something
<duanedesign> #action duanedesign is going to email the ML to get further team feedback on tweaking the mentor program.
<meetingology> ACTION: duanedesign is going to email the ML to get further team feedback on tweaking the mentor program.
<duanedesign> JoseeAntonioR: what was on your mind?
<JoseeAntonioR> I'm trying to explain it :S
<JoseeAntonioR> how do we get beginners to contact us? because afaik we aren't on the docs
<duanedesign> Is us, the team
<duanedesign> or us, individual members?
<JoseeAntonioR> the team
<ashickur-noor> yes it is a question
<JoseeAntonioR> I mean, I don't see many beginners entering the IRC channel, I only see 3 or 4 a week
<duanedesign> i think most people stumble on the wiki
<duanedesign> or the IRC channel
<ashickur-noor> every one does not know that there is ubt
<JoseeAntonioR> ashickur-noor, that's my point
<ashickur-noor> What I say before
<ashickur-noor> We have to promote our team
<JoseeAntonioR> yes
<ashickur-noor> by social media
<duanedesign> last year we were working on reaching out to other teams
<ashickur-noor> by other list
<ashickur-noor> other team
<ashickur-noor> from forums
<Unit193> Yes, but advertising in #u is agenst policy, and we need to get good, dedicated mentors first
<ashickur-noor> if we don't promote
<ashickur-noor> then new will know about us
<ashickur-noor> about Ubuntu
<JoseeAntonioR> Ok. So first of all, let's tweak the mentorship system, so we can promote afterwards
<ashickur-noor> Sounds like good
<duanedesign> #action brainstorm on ways to reach new users looking to get involved in the coomunity
<meetingology> ACTION: brainstorm on ways to reach new users looking to get involved in the coomunity
<duanedesign> hows that :)
<JoseeAntonioR> great
<duanedesign> thanks JoseeAntonioR
<JoseeAntonioR> :)
<duanedesign> thanks Unit193
<Unit193> As hobgoblin keeps saying, we need to get shorter /topics as people don't read them, and that may get a few more doing it
<Unit193> duanedesign: I didn't do much
<duanedesign> thanks ashickur-noor
<JoseeAntonioR> yes, before we end, wha Unit193 said
<duanedesign> Unit193: our topics in the IRC chabbels?
<duanedesign> ugh
<ashickur-noor> it's my pleasure
<Unit193> duanedesign: Yes sir
<duanedesign> channels*
<duanedesign> Unit193: good idea
<Unit193> I can talk after meeting, nothing really needed in here
<duanedesign> ok :)
<duanedesign> if nothing else?
<ashickur-noor> I will update the team report
<duanedesign> ahh cool
<ashickur-noor> some one update the meeting log and next meeting
<duanedesign> yep
<JoseeAntonioR> I'll update the wiki
<duanedesign> short list of after meeting items on the /meeting wiki page
<duanedesign> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Feb  8 00:56:34 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-08-00.05.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-08-00.05.html
 * slangasek waves
<jhunt_> o/
 * stgraber waves
<ev> hi
 * barry can't wait to see jhunt_ 's "done" character today
<bdmurray> I thought jhunt_ was gone
<doko> good morning, early here ...
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Feb  8 16:02:31 2012 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<slangasek> doko: no, it's the usual time ;
<slangasek> )
<doko> heh
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jhunt_ ev bdmurray slangasek)
<slangasek> jhunt_ ev doko bdmurray slangasek stgraber barry
<slangasek> no cjwatson today, per his mail
<jhunt_> Working on bug 922754 - jason and myself both independently found the
<jhunt_> same bug in openssh! :-) Reworking code to take account of such 'unusually
<jhunt_> behaved apps'. Started to look at stgrabers upstart-containers MP.
<jhunt_> â
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 922754 in upstart "booting without --no-log causes init and plymouth-upstart-bridge to spin at 100%" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/922754
 * jhunt_ now using erc :)
<ev> - Summary email to Rick on the Open Invention Network meeting I attended at
<ev>   his request last week.
<ev> - Verifying that Wubi 11.10 is not affected by the recent download fallback
<ev>   bug, as expected.
<ev> - Merging Loic's Automake fixes for libtimezonemap.
<ev> - Wired the DBus preferences to the configuration file and vice versa in the
<ev>   preferences dialog backend.
<ev> - Added PolicyKit wrapping to the preferences dialog backend methods.
<barry> jhunt_: rock!
<ev> - Wired the checkboxes to DBus calls in the preferences page.
<ev> - Set up DBus service activation for the preferences page backend.
<ev> - Shut down the preferences page backend 60 seconds after the last call.
<ev> - Fixed some bugs in the preferences page backend.
<ev> - Uploaded a new whoopsie (0.1.5) with the completed preferences page.
<ev> - Initial remodeling of the apport crash dialog in support of the new crash
<ev>   database.
<ev> - Show the icons of the application with a bottom right error icon overlay,
<ev>   rather than just a generic error icon in the apport crash dialog.
<ev> - Sorted travel for Strata.
<ev> - Move obtaining the report information into a thread that's either called
<ev>   when the user presses the Show Details button or when they choose to report
<ev>   the bug, as discussed previously with Matthew and Martin.
<ev> - Handle the different types of bug reports having slightly different UI in
<ev>   the apport crash dialog.
<ev> - Wire up the crash counter field to the ignore future problems checkbox.
<ev> - Fixed a few bugs in the new apport UI.
<ev> - Built and uploaded a new Wubi for 10.04.4.
<ev> - Found out from Matthew that GNOME has gone ahead and created their own page
<ev>   called Privacy in the Control Center. I'll have to rework the code as a
<ev>   patch that adds a Diagnostics tab. :(
<ev> - Blacklist the report if the user checked the ignore future problems
<ev>   checkbox.
<ev> - Better handling of calling into collect_info, as was the case previously,
<ev>   complete with error handling UI in threads.
<ev> - Handle the administrator disabling crash reporting.
<ev> - Actually notify the crash reporting daemon that there's a new crash to
<ev>   upload.
<ev> - Started work on the KDE side of the apport changes.
<ev> (done)
<doko> - openjdk-6 and icedtea-web builds
<doko> - fosdem (best news is that RedHat announced their openjdk ARM build does pass the TCK)
<doko> - now at Linaro Connect
<doko> - will upload eglibc-2.15 today
<doko>  ... if nobody intervenes
<doko> done
<ev> (was actually Canonical, not GNOME)
<bdmurray> bug triage of ubiquity bug reports
<bdmurray> updated ubiquity apport source package hook to include installer command line
<bdmurray> iso-testing bug triage
<bdmurray> review of merge proposals from Vadim Rutkovsky
<bdmurray> testing ubiquity bug 924836 regarding ifupdown and plymouth
<bdmurray> testing ubiquity bug 902479 regarding details (dupe searching)
<bdmurray> testing ubiquity bug 645449 and finding duplicates of it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 924836 in resolvconf (Ubuntu Precise) "network-manager does not tell plymouth it has started" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/924836
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 830946 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Precise) "duplicate for #902479 Nothing displayed on embedded terminal." [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/830946
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 645449 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Precise) "Ubiquity hangs at Keyboard layout if you use keyboard to navigate / select" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/645449
<bdmurray> searched for DBus.Error.NoReply bug reports
<bdmurray> added screenlog.0 log file to precise update-manager apport hook
<bdmurray> debugging of collect bug data for arsenal reports
<bdmurray> tested apt-clone and dist-upgrade of lucid to precise (bug 927993)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 927993 in apt (Ubuntu Precise) "distribution upgrade from lucid to precise failed with : package dpkg is already installed and configured" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/927993
<bdmurray> apport branch not to remove dependencies.txt from duplicates
<bdmurray> updated meta-release files on changelogs.ubuntu.com to show 12.04 LTS
<bdmurray> â
<slangasek>  * alpha-2 out the door
<slangasek>  * interviewing
<slangasek>  * nothing much else to report
<slangasek>  * I'll be off Monday
<slangasek> É
<stgraber> - Testing tracker
<stgraber>  - Help with Alpha 2 preparation
<stgraber>  - Wrote an initial to generate a list of releasable images from the tracker based on testing coverage
<stgraber> - Networking
<stgraber>  - Some more work on resolvconf, reverting the init script change that was done last week and usnig a relative symlink for /etc/resolv.conf instead
<stgraber>  - Merged some fixes into netcfg, fixed it to deal properly with reoslvconf and fixed another small DHCPv6 issue.
<stgraber>  - Got daily d-i IPv6 testing running, just need to have the results pushed somewhere now
<stgraber>  - Follow-up on SRUs for ifupdown, ifenslave-2.6, vlan, bridge-utils. TREllis should have test results soon that will let us move all that to -updates (if succesful)
<stgraber> - LTSP
<stgraber>  - Started preparing the LTSP upload for Precise, there are a lot of upstream changes, so currently testing in a PPA with a few LTSP developers (yeah, you, alkisg ;))
<stgraber>  - Reworked LTSP-Live, just need to do some more testing on it and that'll be on less WI :)
<stgraber> - Containers
<stgraber>  - Updated upstart branch a bit, still pending review, hopefully this week.
<stgraber>  - Got LXC to build armel and armhf containers on x86! http://www.stgraber.org/2012/02/03/ever-wanted-an-armel-or-armhf-container-on-an-x86-machine-its-now-possible-with-lxc-in-ubuntu-precise/
<stgraber>  - Started looking at ways to allow for clean upgrades and dist-upgrades of running containers
<stgraber> - TPM
<stgraber>  - tpm-tools is back in Ubuntu!
<stgraber>  - Now to do a few tests and documment that stuff (post-FF probably)
<stgraber> - TODO
<stgraber>  - Trying to get as much as possible done before Feature Freeze, thankfully quite a few work items can be done after it.
<stgraber> (done)
<stgraber> *wrote an initial script
<slangasek> armel containers on x86 - freaky stuff :
<slangasek> )
<slangasek> stgraber: do you have tpm-tools working on your system now?
<stgraber> slangasek: I have it installed, not quite working yet but I need to try with a clean TPM and David's instructions
 * slangasek nods
<slangasek> barry:
<barry> prepared and conducted udd class for udw; updated udd online docs.  long discussions on various python security issues.  python3-pyqt4-dbus review. DM application.  helped out oem and other internal devs on some packaging issues.  updated patch for wadllib+python3 submitted to debian.  wrote up debian python packaging style guide proposal: <http://tinyurl.com/7g2ybep>. todo: gearing up for stable+1 maintenance work this month;
<barry> coordinate w/pitti and SpamapS. off on friday. â
<slangasek> barry: has your DM application been approved?  (For some reason that's set up to where everybody can see the application, and then no one knows when it's accepted...)
<barry> slangasek: i honestly don't know.  the docs say "wait a while" so i'm waiting for confirmation
<slangasek> k :)
<barry> ;)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] FF
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: FF
 * ev runs away screaming
<slangasek> I'm told Feature Freeze is happening next Thursday :)
<slangasek> so don't get caught holding a feature on Thursday, or it'll freeze to your skin and have to be surgically removed
<ev> does our health insurance policy cover that?
<barry> ev: not in the usa
<slangasek> ;)
<slangasek> if there are any features you're concerned about not having done before FF, talk to me (and the release team) *now*, don't wait 'til next Thursday
<doko> I'm still toying with making ruby1.9 the default, have to talk with lucas
<barry> doko: there was some discussion yesterday in #u-devel about numpy 1.6.  any thoughts on that?
<barry> (jtaylor is interested in that)
<doko> <doko> jtaylor, I don't see a reason not to do that. so if you have packages for numpy, scipy, and maybe others, let me know
<slangasek> doko: is that something you'll coordinate with the server team as well?  Ruby is in main to support their apps specifically
<barry> doko: fantastic, thanks
<doko> slangasek, ok will pester Daviey
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
<slangasek> bdmurray: have we found all the bugs now, or are there still new ones?
<bdmurray> slangasek: I'm pretty sure there are still some new ones
<bdmurray> Oh, actually I found a funny one yesterday 928447
<bdmurray> bug 928447
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 928447 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "possible to use a number for your computer's name" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/928447
<slangasek> heh
<bdmurray> seriously though - ev any progress with a wubi 247 for oneiric?
<bdmurray> also bug 920479 has been around for some time
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 920479 in pitivi (Ubuntu) "pitivi don't start" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/920479
<ev> bdmurray: I tried to reproduce this issue with the wubi installer from ubuntu.com attempting to use the development release payload, but it did not
<bdmurray> er 902479
<stgraber> bdmurray: yeah, I guess that's because of an older RFC stating an hostname can't start by a digit and some software still expect that to be true
<bdmurray> ev: so what needs to happen next
<ev> well, I fixed bug 924752 for precise
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 924752 in Wubi "wubi r255 - Ubuntu Desktop failed to install from disk image - wrong download url" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/924752
<ev> I'm not convinced the "if I copy this off the cd and try to run it from the desktop" is really a bug
<bdmurray> right but what I did is download from ubuntu.com and it tried to install the development.  I'll test it again though just to be really sure.
<slangasek> stgraber: even in the current RFCs, hostnames aren't allowed to consist entirely of numbers
<ev> bdmurray: please do
<ev> if you can reliably reproduce it, I'd like to see some logs from that attempt
<bdmurray> regarding numbers as hostnames was that it won't let you until you type in a password
<bdmurray> ev: and is there a debug switch for wubi?
<ev> make sure you're getting it from the page off of ubuntu.com
<ev> bdmurray: nope, it dumps its brain to %TEMP%
<ev> with debug logging the default
<bdmurray> okay
<bdmurray> bug 902479
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 830946 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Precise) "duplicate for #902479 Nothing displayed on embedded terminal." [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/830946
<bdmurray> its not a huge deal but rather ugly
<ev> ask me about that one when we're deep in bug fixing mode :)
<slangasek> ev: should we assign it to you in the meantime? :)
<stgraber> slangasek: do you know which RFC(s)? 952 is not particularly clear on the "just a number" bit as the "can't start by a digit" was taking care of that case, then 1123 says that the "can't start by a digit" bit is dropped
<ev> slangasek: you can assign to me as many bugs as you'd like, now the milestone field on the other hand... ;)
<ev> s/,/./
<slangasek> heh
<ev> go ahead, but I promise not to touch it until we're past UI freeze
<slangasek> stgraber: not offhand; but I'm sure that a hostname consisting entirely of numbers is still prohibited, and is routinely interpreted as a decimal encoding of an IP
<slangasek> bdmurray: any other bugs?
<bdmurray> yes bug 876298 seems to have come up again as there are some issues installing flashplugin
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 876298 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "[MASTER] We need to better handle external payloads (Flash, msttcorefonts) not being available." [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/876298
 * doko is changing rooms, plenaries start at 8:30 at Linaro :-/
 * slangasek waves to doko
<bdmurray> some installs are failing to resolve archive.canonical.com to get flash and then the install crashes
<bdmurray> stgraber and I talked about the name resolution failure which is a separate issue
<bdmurray> it just seems to me that fixing 876298 would help more people install
<slangasek> barry: that one's assigned to you; have you had a chance to look into it at all?
<barry> slangasek: i haven't but i will
<stgraber> slangasek: right, the closest thing I found is in the DNS RFC (1912) which clearly states that a label can't be a number, though that's specifically for DNS records. Anyway, enough digging in RFCs for the day ;)
<slangasek> barry: ok, thanks
<slangasek> I also want to remind folks about http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/kernel-bugs/reports/rls-p-tracking-bugs.html
<bdmurray> additionally would fixing hat help with bug 922949?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 922949 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "installer crashed due to a corrupted package" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/922949
<slangasek> this has the list of bugs that we really really need to fix for release... and the numbers aren't going down very quickly :(
<slangasek> some of them are targeted to beta-1 and are on track... but we probably shouldn't leave the rest to the end of the cycle, lest they fail to make the cut
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else?
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Feb  8 16:42:33 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-08-16.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-08-16.02.html
<slangasek> thanks, guys!
<stgraber> thanks!
<barry> thanks!
<jhunt_> thanks!
<balloons> hello everytime.. time for the weeekly qa meeting
<balloons> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Feb  8 17:02:01 2012 UTC.  The chair is balloons. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<balloons> We have a short agenda for today.. Can I get a roll call of who all is here quickly?
<astraljava> o/
<balloons> AGENDA:
<balloons> Previous Actions
<balloons> ACTION: :alourie to feature AutomatedTesting wiki page prominently in wiki, based upon list discussion (balloons, 17:19:45)
<balloons> Ubuntu Flavor Updates
<balloons> Other topics
<balloons> hi astraljava
<astraljava> Hey there.
<balloons> just you, me and the idlers
<balloons> :-)
<astraljava> Looks that way. :)
<balloons> [TOPIC] Previous Actions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Previous Actions
<balloons> hello phillw
<balloons> ok,the only outstanding action is one carried over for alourie..
<phillw> hi balloons sorry I'm late - just put new O/S on.
<balloons> no worries phillw.. glad you could make it :-)
<balloons> So, I'm not going to renew the action. alourie's scheduled shifted I believe, and he is unable to attend these meeting atm. However, the wiki still does need updating a bit. Any volunteers to 'feature the automatedtesting wiki page prominently"?
 * phillw will do it.
<balloons> awesome :-) I think you can communicate to the list once it's done.. Thanks phillw!
<balloons> ACTION: phillw to update wiki to better reflect activities and automated testing pages
<balloons> oops
<balloons> [ACTION] phillw to update wiki to better reflect activities and automated testing pages
<meetingology> ACTION: phillw to update wiki to better reflect activities and automated testing pages
<balloons> great. That's it for previous actions
<balloons> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Flavor Updates
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Flavor Updates
<balloons> let's discuss what's going on in the different flavors.. phillw, want to go first with lubuntu?
<phillw> okay, our alternate for power ppc vanished from the alpha2 area & the current daily is too big for a cd
<phillw> this is stopping testing as older ppc's only have cd drive
<phillw> I'm not sure if it is a build problem - but will raise it with our head of dev later, unless anyone here knows the cause?
<balloons> offhand I do not know
<phillw> I did email about it, but got no reply.
<balloons> gema could not be with us today.. is jibel in here?
<jibel> hi
<phillw> as far as I know, that's the only big gremlin affecting lubuntu.
<balloons> hi jibel.. any thoughts on the disappearing isos for lubuntu.. see above
<jibel> no clue, let me check
<balloons> thanks jibel!
<balloons> astraljava, would you like to update us on ubuntu studio?
<astraljava> Sure. Unfortunately progress ground to a halt after Alpha-2. We're gonna have a lot to do prior to Feature Freeze, so I'd expect lots more to report next week.
<astraljava> ..
<balloons> this does appear to be the calm in the eye of the hurricane doesn't it? :-)
<jibel> phillw, ppc images were untested hence not published or did you explicitly asked to the release manager to publish them anyway ?
<astraljava> balloons: It sure seems that way. :)
<phillw> jibel: I did not for ppc stiff. I know there a few re-spins for the others.
<balloons> phillw, jibel so the image didn't get built automatically because they weren't tested, and they were not explicitly built etheir so they didn't show up. This correct?
<jibel> balloons, the image were built automatically but not released because they were untested.
<jibel> the last ppc build was 20120201.1
<balloons> jibel, ok I understand.. So phillw, for your needs you need a ppc image to test right? jibel can the image be released now?
<phillw> they were there, but the testers where having problems  - i think that this carried on so long as to cause people to think that no testing was going on, when my emails were arriving often !
<jibel> so only dailies are available and they are oversized.
<phillw> jibel: yes.
<jibel> phillw, lets talk to skaet after the meeting.
<phillw> thanks :)
<balloons> thanks jibel and phillw
<balloons> ok, jibel while we have you, care to give a quick update on ubuntu?
<jibel> A2 released last week
<jibel> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/ReleaseReports/PreciseAlpha2TestReport
<jibel> major issues where with resolvconf and the advanced partitioner in ubiquity
<jibel> luckily unity 5.2 was released Friday, right after A2
<jibel> that leave plenty of time to test it and make Beta 1 a solid milestone.
<jibel> Next week we'll be testing the 4th release of Lucid
<jibel> this is the last point release for Lucid
<jibel> if you want help Lucid (or any stable release) go to this page http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html
<jibel> and help testing packages in proposed
<jibel> that's all from me for today
<jibel> questions / comments ?
<jibel> ..
<balloons> jibel, just adding this wiki page also talks thru the process of doing an SRU I believe
<balloons> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/PerformingSRUVerification
<jibel> thanks for the link
<balloons> alright, let's check and see if anyone frm kubuntu is around and can give an update ScottK or Darkwing ?
<balloons> I don't see anyone from xubuntu.. but speak up if your here.. any xubuntu updates?
<balloons> Finally, any update on edubuntu? stgraber, highvoltage?
<balloons> if not, let's move on to our last topic
<balloons> {TOPIC] Other topics
<balloons> [TOPIC] Other topics
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Other topics
 * balloons wishes he could type sometimes
<balloons> ok, first off, anything people want to discuss?
<Riddell> balloons: ?
<Riddell> oh srus, dunno what we have for kubuntu currently
<balloons> Riddell, I was asking for kubuntu qa updates.. anything in general.. how did alpha 2 testing go, etc
<balloons> and hello Riddell :-)
<Riddell> alpha 2 was ok
<balloons> did you want to add anything else Riddell?
<Riddell> we got i386 and amd64 out
<Riddell> I'm still to get my arm device working
<balloons> Riddell, you have an arm developer board or something cooler than that?
<Riddell> pandaboard I think
<balloons> gotcha.. thanks for the update Riddell
<balloons> Ok, if no one else has an addtional item, I will share
<balloons> I wanted to highlight the good work done on the unity 5.2 testing that jibel mentioned has now landed in the archive
<balloons> didrocks has an excellent post explaining the results from the testing: http://blog.didrocks.fr/post/Unity-5.2-is-now-released%21
<balloons> so thanks to everyone that was involved.
<balloons> ok, I think that's it for this week. Remember beta is coming sooner than we think :-) Happy testing everyone. Thanks for coming
<balloons> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Feb  8 17:44:28 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-08-17.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-08-17.02.html
<phillw> balloons: thanks for chairing :)
<bdmurray> Time for the bug squad meeting!
<jsalisbury_> o/
<bdmurray> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Feb  8 18:02:07 2012 UTC.  The chair is bdmurray. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<bdmurray> #topic Previous Actions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Previous Actions
<bdmurray> earlier we had talked about compiling a list of DBus.Error.NoReply bug reports and looking at their status, importance and gravity
<bdmurray> before deciding how to tackle them
<Ursinha> I 'm working on it right now
<bdmurray> I've created such a list
<Ursinha> cool!
<bdmurray> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/834211/
<bdmurray> the search_text parameter for the API wasn't a huge help so I just looked at all the apport crashes
<Ursinha> regardless the package?
<bdmurray> Ursinha: right ;-)
<Ursinha> I thought there would be more of them
<bdmurray> well apport did a lot of duplicating on a per package basis
<Ursinha> bdmurray, the way you said when we discussed that, I thought there were hundreds
<Ursinha> hmm
<yofel> o/
<Ursinha> bdmurray, how long it takes for that script to run?
<bdmurray> bug 437883
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 437883 in blueman (Ubuntu Precise) "blueman-applet crashed with DBusException in call_blocking()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/437883
<Ursinha> can we add titles and such to be easier to have an idea?
<bdmurray> actually that one isn't a perfect example but gives you an idea of how apport would mark duplicates about one package
<bdmurray> yofel: yes?
<bdmurray> Ursinha: sure
<yofel> just idling around as I haven't been there for a while
<bdmurray> bug 707990 is a better example
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 707990 in aptdaemon (Ubuntu) "update-manager crashed with DBusException in _convert_dbus_exception(): org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.NoReply: Did not receive a reply. Possible causes include: the remote application did not send a reply, the message bus security policy blocked the reply, the reply timeout expired, or the network connection was broken." [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/707990
<bdmurray> Ursinha: so what would you like to see really?
<Ursinha> bdmurray, I don't know, maybe the title/package along with the bug#
<bdmurray> okay
<bdmurray> #action bdmurray to improve list of dbus error no reply bugs
<meetingology> ACTION: bdmurray to improve list of dbus error no reply bugs
<bdmurray> #topic Engineering Team Bug Status
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Engineering Team Bug Status
<bdmurray> Ursinha: do you have anything for us?
<Ursinha> nothing specific; I've been working on a bug list sorted by "gravity", will have something to show next meeting
<bdmurray> great
<bdmurray> jsalisbury: anything on your side?
<jsalisbury> bdmurray, nothing specific as well.  I've bee focused on bisecting and building test kernels for precise bugs.
<jsalisbury> s/bee/been/
<Ursinha> jsalisbury, there is a bug I've been hitting lately, not sure it's something important
<Ursinha> (not sure this is the place to discuss as well :))
<Ursinha> I have a nfs mount that causes ls to hang
<Ursinha> I found a kernel bug today that mentions the problem in natty, and in older kernels
<jsalisbury> Ursinha, hmm, interesting.  maybe open a bug and I can take a deeper look.
<bdmurray> how about we talk about it towards the end?
<Ursinha> sure
<bdmurray> I've been lookingat lots of ubiquity bugs the past week
<bdmurray> and have come up with a tagging scheme to identify parts of the installer where people saw the bug
<bdmurray> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingUbiquity
<bdmurray> in the notes at the end (rather rough yet)
<Ursinha> cool
<bdmurray> and as a public service announcement you might encounter a bug when installing from alpha 2 with flashplugin-installer, if you choose the restricted software option
<bdmurray> that's being investigated
<bdmurray> Lots of bug patterns being merged from Vadim Rutkovsky too
<Ursinha> that bug that crashes the installation?
<bdmurray> Those have actually brought up some old bugs too which has been helpful
<bdmurray> Ursinha: yes
<Ursinha> bdmurray, that's an old bug, isn't it? problem with network manager not being able to resolve the names and flash failing to download...
<bdmurray> Ursinha: yes, its come back and may have something to do with the new name resolution bits
<Ursinha> right
<bdmurray> the installer crashing in this case is bug 876298
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 876298 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "[MASTER] We need to better handle external payloads (Flash, msttcorefonts) not being available." [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/876298
<bdmurray> anyway thats it from me
<bdmurray> #topic Bug Escalations (any High or Critical bugs that community members have seen that need attention)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bug Escalations (any High or Critical bugs that community members have seen that need attention)
<bdmurray> yofel: do you have anything?
<yofel> nope
<bdmurray> anybody?
<bil21al> bdmurray:  for your information from my side all the high and critical bugs of empathy are in progress
<bdmurray> bil21al: that's great
<bil21al> hm
<bdmurray> next topic then
<bdmurray> #topci other topics
<bdmurray> #topic other topics
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: other topics
<bdmurray> is there anything else to discuss?
<Ursinha> can I show that bug to jsalisbury? :)
<bdmurray> sure!
<Ursinha> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/760744
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 760744 in linux (Ubuntu) "NFS mount hangs ls and nautilus" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<jsalisbury> Ursinha, looking
<yofel> is a symlink in that folder? I've had apps hang on an ioctl() when the nfs mount was hung while looking up the link
<Ursinha> jsalisbury, so, I'm not sure what to change in that bug to add that I'm having a problem with 3.0.0 in oneiric
<Ursinha> yofel, mine isn't
<jsalisbury> Ursinha, you could open a separate bug, we can investigate and mark as a duplicate if it is in fact a duplicate.
<Ursinha> sure, thanks jsalisbury
<jsalisbury> Ursinha, np.  sometimes this could be an NFS client issue as well.
<hggdh> I dimly remember an issue with ' ls --color' and non-accessible mounts
<jsalisbury> Ursinha, I recall at one point we changed from NFS3 by default to NFS4.
<yofel> hggdh: that's what I was talking about
<hggdh> the user should try with 'ls --color=no'
<Ursinha> hggdh, hm
<hggdh> this is a known issue, but I am not sure it can be solved nicely
<hggdh> there are at least one coreutils bug on it
<Ursinha> by nicely you mean...
<hggdh> programmatically
<Ursinha> right
<hggdh> yofel: indeed :-), sorry
<Ursinha> I'll file the bug and investigate a bit more, will try the no color trick
<yofel> heh, np
<yofel> you were more accurate
<jsalisbury> Ursinha, can you add the kernel-da-key tag?  That will put it on my hot list.
<Ursinha> sure jsalisbury
<jsalisbury> Ursinha, thanks
<bdmurray> any other business?
<Ursinha> no, thanks :)
<yofel> not from me
<hggdh> jsalisbury: I dimlly recollect this being discussed upstream at coreutils -- my recollection is that this would have to be fixed by the kernel, and the kernel folks did not quite agree
<jsalisbury> hggdh, thanks for the info.  Was it discussed on LKML?  Or just the coreutils mailing list?
<hggdh> Ursinha: there are already some bugs on this
<bdmurray> okay thanks everyone
<bdmurray> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Feb  8 18:33:45 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-08-18.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-08-18.02.html
<Ursinha> hggdh, searching....
<hggdh> jsalisbury: coreutils ML. I do not follow LKML
<jsalisbury> hggdh, ok, thanks.  I'll take a look.
<hggdh> Ursinha: bug 264313 for example
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 264313 in coreutils (Ubuntu) "ls --color hangs for directories linked from network " [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/264313
<hggdh> Ursinha, jsalisbury: this *might* have been solved by coreutils bug 10243 -- http://bugs.gnu.org/10243
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 10243 in gnupg (Ubuntu) "PowerPC seems to be missing the "let users lock small amounts of ram" patch." [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/10243
<wxl> phillw: if we do indeed have a meeting are you planning on mentioning the ppc stuff as part of your qa announcements or should we make that a separate item?
<phillw> wxl: I'll mention it on QA, you have the latest on the 'black-scree'.
<phillw> +n
<wxl> i'll add in for sure
 * gilir takes a seat
<gilir> #startmeeting Lubuntu Team Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Feb  8 20:02:06 2012 UTC.  The chair is gilir. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:
 * wxl just added one last itemâ¦
<gilir> hi :)
<Yorvyk> o/
<phillw> o/
<leszek> :)
<gilir> as usual, agenda available on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/IRC%20Meetings/Agenda
<wxl> _/\o/\_
<wxl> ;)
<gilir> and as a quick note, sorry for being quite this past few days, it should be ok now :)
<rafaellaguna> Everybody has personal life
<Yorvyk> OK the rest of us managed to make enough noise to compensate :)
<gilir> phillw, I don't see any actions items from last meeting, so I'm moving to the items :)
<gilir> #topic phillw - Weekly report - Update from QA meeting and team
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  phillw - Weekly report - Update from QA meeting and team
<phillw> I brought up that the ppc alternate vanished from alpha2 area. It appears a misunderstanding
<wxl> did it vanish now?
<wxl> i thought it was just huge :D
<phillw> they thought no-one was testing it. They're going to try an get us a CD sized alternate for ppc built :)
<leszek> its playing seek and hide :P
<gilir> phillw, alpha2 was a bit messy :/
<wxl> we have at least 5 potential testers. would be nice to have more. i noticed today that qemu can emulate ppc if others are interested
<phillw> one of the tresters did actually install onto a ppc - but I've not had any further news yet.
<gilir> wxl, what is the actual state of ppc daily (alternate and live) ?
<wxl> gilir: daily-live is cd sized but is buggy and will not install successfully in my experience
<phillw> gilir: the normal one is on-size, alternate is over-size.
<wxl> gilir: as for alternate it is too large-- which makes no logical sense but is what it is (in fact last time i checked ALL the alternates were oversized)
<gilir> #action gilir to reduce size of ppc alternate daily
<leszek> wxl: maybe taskel issue here
<meetingology> ACTION: gilir to reduce size of ppc alternate daily
<phillw> wxl: has an update on testing the 'norma' installation.
<wxl> gilir: check http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/ -- they are ALL oversized still, not just ppc
<gilir> I should be able to reduce the size, if there is a bug on another part, we will have time to find it
<gilir> ouch :/
<wxl> downloaded the latest x86 daily-live and it would not boot. seems like the same old crashing dm issue-- not the one where the greeter fails and you can still log in
<leszek> My guess the alternative iso stores too many packages. Even uneeded ones
<gilir> there is still unity on the alternate :/
<leszek> that might be it
<gilir> ok, I'll check this
<wxl> in any case, the lightdm-gtk-greeter and/or unity-greeter issue is still not resolved :(
<rafaellaguna> (sorry, back to PC)
<gilir> wxl, I can't tell now, need to check what's wrong, I'm still not up-to-date with precise recent chenges
<wxl> gilir: no prob, just make an action ;)
<gilir> phillw, anything else from QA ?
<rafaellaguna> there're still people asking if we're using unity or lxdm greeters
<phillw> gilir: nothing to add.
<gilir> rafaellaguna, the goal is to used the lightdm-gtk-greeter, no unity-greeter, no lxdm
<gilir> and of course, no unity by default :)
<gilir> phillw, thanks :)
<StephenSmally> sorry i'm late
<rafaellaguna> I know, that's a thing to control, the rumours even fall into Unity
<phillw> 918401 had the most recent news I am aware of.
<rafaellaguna> there is a lot of noise with these alphas
<gilir> Unit193 doesn't seem here, moving to next item
<gilir> #topic phillw - Weekly report - Update from comms team
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  phillw - Weekly report - Update from comms team
<phillw> the comms team is restructuring, I'll have more news hopefully, next week.
<wxl> :)
<gilir> phillw, IMO it's something we have to discuss in private with all the members of the team
<phillw> indeed.
<gilir> phillw, let's move to the next item if you don't have anything to add
<gilir> #topic Unit193 - Weekly report - Update from IRC OP's team
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Unit193 - Weekly report - Update from IRC OP's team
<Unit193> Right, there's been a problem user that hasn't listened to rules, the IRC team stuff is still pending as far as I know
<Unit193> There was some thought about adding us on the site to clean up spam there too though
<gilir> Unit193, which site ?
<Unit193> lubuntu.net, but that may have been a thought
<phillw> mario did request some extra eyes.
<gilir> Unit193, not sure it's should be the job of IRC team, but if you want to help, I'm sure it will be appreciate :)
<Unit193> Anything else I'm missing, others here?
<wxl> i'll say one thing
<wxl> since i was the innocent recipient of the "dialogue" from this problem user
<wxl> it might be good to have a published plan of action on what to do for the support folks
<wxl> cuz i would have prolly just let it slide/forgotten about it
<Unit193> He's been a problem with us quite a few times, and in another channel too
<leszek> so they are only two possible ways, either ignore him or act and warn/kick maybe ban him
<wxl> i don't mean that kind of action
<wxl> more about reporting it to the appropriate parties which phillw was kind enough to alert me to but i suspect there are others in support (and the future support team) that may not have this knowledge
<Unit193> leszek: When he tries to join, he'll be redirected to #ubuntu-ops
<leszek> ah ok
<gilir> Unit193, anything to add ?
<Unit193> Nothing more unless someone else can think of it
<gilir> ok thanks Unit193 :)
<phillw> Unit193: can we put our heads together to get something for support after the meeting.
<gilir> amjjawad doesn't seem to be here, moving to next
<gilir> #topic gilir - Weekly report - Update from Devs teams
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  gilir - Weekly report - Update from Devs teams
<gilir> alpha 2 was released, but only for alternate
<phillw> just for the record, amjjawad is away for a month, I'll try and keep up with what is going on for him. any of the support team can give me a ping / email.
<gilir> the live ISO was fixed just the day of the release
<gilir> phillw, ok, thanks for the news
<wxl> um, "fixed?" ;)
<gilir> wxl, yes but maybe it's another problem
<gilir> also, we are now very close to Feature Freeze
<gilir> it means, no new feature, no new version (unless bug fixes only) can be added after this freeze
<MrChrisDruif> Aloha
<leszek> yep and I hope the new lxkeymap will make it in time
<gilir> so after February 16th, it's closed ! :)
<rafaellaguna> sure yes, unlike lxlauncher
<MrChrisDruif> I thought there could be made exceptions to this Feature Freeze?
<StephenSmally> rafaellaguna: i wasn't planning a release for precise
<wxl> lxlauncher won't make it? :(
<gilir> leszek, please give us some time for the packaging also :)
<leszek> :)
<rafaellaguna> StephanSmally: it would be crazy, better next release
<gilir> for now, only lsc and lxkeymap (the previous version) are on time for feature freeze
<MrChrisDruif> rafaellaguna; it *could* always be backported if it's important enough
<gilir> it means, no lxfind, no lxlauncher v2 by default
<StephenSmally> and no lxscreenshot i think
<gilir> MrChrisDruif, yes, exception are possible, but it should be really exceptions :)
<leszek> gilir: but we can package lxkeymap 0.7.99 and then fix it up til release I hope
<rafaellaguna> agree with gilir about changes
<gilir> StephenSmally, yes also
<StephenSmally> ok, both lxscreenshot and lxlauncher needs to be improved, so no problem
<gilir> leszek, you don't plan to add more features ?
<leszek> no its feature complete basically
<leszek> it only needs bugfixing
<StephenSmally> (anyway i can't get this ubuntu love for feature freeze ;-P )
<gilir> leszek, ok, so we can update it as if for feature freeze, but it needs to be fixed for Beta 1 (01/03)
<rafaellaguna> leszek: (cof) and (cof) icon remapping (cof)
<leszek> StephenSmally: its a necessasity
<gilir> StephenSmally, it's not a love :) Just a rule :)
<MrChrisDruif> Btw, at which topic are we?
<StephenSmally> well, i get it speaking about software on the os iso, but i don't get it with the software in the repo
<leszek> gilir: yeah it needs to be fixed thats the problem right now, because I don't have much time fixing it
<StephenSmally> leszek: i can help in bug fixing if necessary
<leszek> StephenSmally: that would be really great
<StephenSmally> are all the bug listed on launchpad?
<StephenSmally> (or git or something similar)
<leszek> no not yet
<leszek> I will list them, but you can also see the bugs in this short video I made: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXIMOsYG6h4
<MrChrisDruif> Maybe I've got something for the current topic
<MrChrisDruif> It's what you could call a "bug" of the lubuntu-core meta-package
<StephenSmally> ok, i will take a look, are only graphic bug or also keymap handling bugs?
<leszek> StephenSmally: keymap handling is fine
<MrChrisDruif> If you look at the depends and recommends diffs between oneiric and precise, you'll be surprised
<StephenSmally> so graphic refining
<gilir> StephenSmally, we can have a look at it after feature freeze, priority IMO is to release lsc ;)
<gilir> StephenSmally, but we can talk about it later or after the meeting
<leszek> so only graphical bug so far. The profile manager I added is also misbehaving somehow when you are deleting keymap profiles
<StephenSmally> yep
<MrChrisDruif> Alright, just ignore what I just said ^_^
<leszek> k
<gilir> and to finish the dev report
<gilir> unfortunatly, the new session manager will probably not be ready for next week :/
<leszek> xD
<rafaellaguna> :|
<gilir> I'm not sure I'll be able to fix it (and the other part of LXDE) before the release, so it's probably safer to keep the current one for 12.04
<gilir> sorry :(
<MrChrisDruif> gilir; will we then be seeing a lightweight solution to the heated discussion of the mailing-list?
<wxl> yikes
<MrChrisDruif> The clipboard manager issue?
<wxl> MrChrisDruif: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/IRC%20Meetings/Agenda#preview
<gilir> MrChrisDruif, there is a specific item for this ;)
<gilir> any other questions ?
<Yorvyk> I was only going to ask the same thing
<gilir> #topic MrChrisDruif - Weekly report - Update from Docs team
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  MrChrisDruif - Weekly report - Update from Docs team
<anliot>  i'm getting some random crashes w/ a daily build from saturdy.  someone help me report them or identiy them?
<MrChrisDruif> Ah, missed all those topics
<gilir> anliot, you can ask on #lubuntu chan when you are testing
<anliot> k
<MrChrisDruif> Anyhow, nothing serious to report from the Docs team, other then that Ali is working on different pages of the wiki
<gilir> ok thanks MrChrisDruif :)
<MrChrisDruif> We've still have to get our game-plan defined
<gilir> that's the fun part :)
<MrChrisDruif> Ghehe, yeah....right ;-)
<gilir> #topic Yorvyk - Inclusion of clipboard manager or similar. Bug #926893
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Yorvyk - Inclusion of clipboard manager or similar. Bug #926893
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 926893 in lubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "There is NO Clipboard Manager in Lubuntu - a basic feature yet very important" [Undecided,Opinion] https://launchpad.net/bugs/926893
<MrChrisDruif> Anyhow, we've been mailing a bit on some ideas so we hope to have something more concrete next week, but real life is intervening all the time with me
<wxl> uh oh
 * wxl puts on his flameproof suit
<gilir> MrChrisDruif, ok, sorry I was a bit too fast
<Yorvyk> Is there a solution to this bug?
<MrChrisDruif> It's alright ^_^
<MrChrisDruif> Yorvyk; according to the mailing-list several
<wxl> there are many solutions :D
<gilir> Yorvyk, yes :)
<leszek> I don't really get the problem of the clipboard manager . CTRL+C and marking and pasting with middle mouse button works fine. Other desktops don't bring clipboard managers by default, so why should we or do we need one ?
<gilir> the question is, which is the best :)
<gilir> leszek, well, there is still an issue with leafpad for example
<wxl> gilir: i don't want to make more work for anyone but i like the idea of lxclippy
<gilir> try copy on leafpad, close leafpad, and try to paste
<anliot> control+c clipboard gets destroyed when an app closes.
<rafaellaguna> it's an X problem?
<anliot> its an x feature
<wxl> xclip (was that it?) seems like a good starting point. memory usage is small. not entirely sure of its footprint disk space-wise because its part of that whole gaggle of x11 apps.
<gilir> wxl, but we don't need all the feature of a clipboad manager (like parcelite)
<Yorvyk> I prefer it to disappear when the app closes
<leszek> ah ok so the bug should be against lxsession than, correct ?
<MrChrisDruif> wxl suggested clipit at one time
<wxl> gilir: right that's what i'm saying-- just make it simple. just enough to protect
<wxl> MrChrisDruif: as i pointed out on the ml clipit's memory usage is a little bit larger than xclip
<gilir> leszek, yes, I think lxsession should handle basic clipboard management
<rafaellaguna> agree, in osx the clipboard contents stay. imagine it with a 16 mb image
<wxl> gilir leszek +1 i like that idea the best
 * MrChrisDruif didn't finish reading all the post of the thread yet
<gilir> wxl, clipit is a fork of parcelite I think, so it's the same case than parcelite
<wxl> gilir: as i said, i wasn't suggesting clipit. i was just saying i use it :D but i'm not suggesting lubuntu needs it. i'm saying we make something very simple. just enough to protect.
<rafaellaguna> wxl: for that purpose we don't need an app, just modify the session
<wxl> rafaellaguna: didn't realize that was an option until now which is also why i said i like that idea the best :D
<anliot> when you run xclip in --daemon mode it has no user interface period.
<anliot> it just sits as a daemon and saves the clipboard
<wxl> of course it seems there are other people who dislike the idea altogether. maybe this should be one of those pre-freeze voting kind of things
<anliot> like you would expect windows or linux mint to do
<anliot> i meant to say clipit
<leszek> one thing that we could do for sure is install an clipboard manager like parcelite (wasn't it in back in an old version ?) but disable it by default. So that the user has to decide if he/she wants to use this feature
<StephenSmally> anyway we can just "steal" the base xclip code and add it to lxsession
<wxl> if we're going forward i think StephenSmally hit the nail on the head
<gilir> leszek, we done this in the past, parcelite was by default, but not started
<rafaellaguna> StephanSmally: yesss
<leszek> gilir: yeah exactly. So why don't do this again ?
<gilir> StephenSmally, could be a solution also :)
<MrChrisDruif> anliot; is the same with parcellite?
<MrChrisDruif> "parcellite --deamon --no-icon"?
<anliot> yeah
<wxl> we need a vote
<wxl> we could argue about this all day
<MrChrisDruif> I don't know memory usage differences when running it like a daemon?
<gilir> ok, I'll make a summarize of the options for thi sissue
<Yorvyk> I think a bit of benchmarking is needed
<anliot> no we don't need benchmarking
<MrChrisDruif> And which is more supported xclip vs parcellite
<anliot> its 2-5 megs of memory
<gilir> we can decide what to do before the next meeting, or during the meeting
<anliot> so the --daemon = 2-5 megs of memory
<anliot> period
<gilir> Yorvyk, and any benchmarking / testing will be appreciate :)
<wxl> gilir: sounds good. make an action and move on ;)
<Yorvyk> OK
<gilir> #action gilir to summarize and document clipboard issue on the mailing list
<meetingology> ACTION: gilir to summarize and document clipboard issue on the mailing list
 * MrChrisDruif is off again
<gilir> the meeting should be finished now :/
<wxl> ok </stupid-clipboard-manager-topic> ;)
<Unit193> 16:03
<MrChrisDruif> See y'all later
<wxl> what?
<wxl> there's more to do
<gilir> Yorvyk, can we move your other item to next meeting ?
<wxl> i guess we'll skip it eh
<wxl> Yorvyk, StephenSmally and me you mean gilir :D
<Yorvyk> Yes, as I have to go very soon anyway
<gilir> StephenSmally, we can look at lsc release tomorow evening ?
<StephenSmally> yep
<rafaellaguna> ok, leaving. Good night, boys
<Yorvyk> Bye all.
<gilir> ok, thanks everyones :)
<wxl> oh well
<gilir> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Feb  8 21:04:54 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-08-20.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-08-20.02.html
<leszek> cu n8
<StephenSmally> bye
<gilir> wxl, sorry, didn't see your last item :/
<gilir> wxl, do you open a bug report about it ?
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-02-09
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Feb  9 15:00:57 2012 UTC.  The chair is NCommander. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
 * davidm waves 
<dannf> hey
<ogra_> wow, thats timing :)
<NCommander> [topic] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/Meeting/2012/20120209
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/Meeting/2012/20120209
<NCommander> [topic] Action Items from last meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Action Items from last meeting
<NCommander> [topic] janimo to look into LibO
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: janimo to look into LibO
<ogra_> lots ;:)
<janimo> hi
 * NCommander looks for mercy on janimo's soul
<ogra_> NCommander, he volunteered !
<janimo> indeed I did
<NCommander> dd if=/dev/mercy of=/dev/janimo/soul
<mahmoh> hi
<janimo> I do not (yet) regret it
<ogra_> must have to do with his transylvanian inheritance :)
<NCommander> janimo: yet being the operative word here
<janimo> true. I am looking at this now on the panda. If you'll see me curse these days, it's because I've been where NCommander has been before
 * NCommander needs a t-shirt
 * ogra_ doesnt want to go there ... evar !
<NCommander> "I braved the depths of hell^W Libreoffice and all I got was this lousy t-shirt"
<ogra_> though, mono is broken too
 * ogra_ hides
<NCommander> [action] ogra_ to debug mono
<meetingology> ACTION: ogra_ to debug mono
<NCommander> Ok
<NCommander> done
<ogra_> lol
 * ogra_ looks for that rock and brick he collected before 
<NCommander> janimo: anything else to report or can I move on?
<janimo> no really?mono broken on arm? impossible, I hear a company bases it's business on it not being broken on arm. You are all lying
<ogra_> lol
<janimo> NCommander, nope I hope I'll make progress till next meeting
<janimo> but I ave started on it
 * NCommander thinks we've lost janimo to the madness already
<ogra_> thats the winter
<NCommander> [topic] dannf to tidy up a kernel package for armada
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: dannf to tidy up a kernel package for armada
<ogra_> being locked in at -20Â°C does weird things to you
<NCommander> ogra_: I lived in a mountian town like that. I'm still perfectly sane
<ogra_> LOL
<ogra_> LOLOLOLOL
<dannf> NCommander: done afaik
 * ogra_ cleans coffee from his kbd
<NCommander> dannf: indeed, we're working on havinga kernel today (to be reported on later)
 * GrueMaster had coffee shoot up his nose, laughing so hard.
<NCommander> ogra_: GrueMaster oh you guys suck
<GrueMaster> :D
<NCommander> [topic] infinity to pull said kernel package into d-i
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: infinity to pull said kernel package into d-i
<ogra_> is infinity even here ?
<janimo> ogra_, I heard he planned on snorting coke a few hours ago
<NCommander> No, but I thinkthis is a c/ogivenwestilldon't have an uploadedkernel
<ogra_> yeah
 * NCommander smacks his spacebar
<theadmin> Hey wtf! I thought meeting starts at 20:00 UTC >.<
<theadmin> No fair I sezzit
<ogra_> the ARM meeting never ever started at 20UTC
<NCommander> We'll be having the usual IRC meeting on #ubuntu-meeting, on
<NCommander> Thursday 2011-02-09 at 15:00 UTC.
 * NCommander would be very happy if the meeting was at 20:00 UTC but :-P
<NCommander> [topic] janimo or GrueMaster to test the mx5 kernel from jcrigby
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: janimo or GrueMaster to test the mx5 kernel from jcrigby
 * ogra_ wouldnt 
<GrueMaster> Done.  Latest images have the new mx5 kernel
<theadmin> Either I'm confusing something or... Well I'm here for the first time, buuut: http://i.imm.io/gbSI.png
<NCommander> [topic] Standing Items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Standing Items
<GrueMaster> Still fails on START-R rev board.  USB issues.
<NCommander> theadmin: wrong meeting. This is the ARM development team meeting, not IRC council
<theadmin> NCommander: Ah, pardon me then. ARM is cool, I'll listen in if you don't mind?
<janimo> I tested the kernel it was ok, people uploaded it then
<NCommander> [topic] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/ubuntu-arm.html
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/ubuntu-arm.html
 * janimo answered late on previous topic
<NCommander> Well
<NCommander> ...
<NCommander> The items are increasing
<NCommander> I think we fail
<ogra_> huh ?
 * GrueMaster is too sleepy to comment on futility.
<ogra_> we look better than ever
<ogra_> slightly below trend (if it would be in the right angle)
<NCommander> ogra_: we're supposed to close items, not add half-a-million new closed items
<ogra_> nothing changed over the last week
<NCommander> THATS NOT HOW WE'RE SUPPOSED TO GET ON THE TRENDLINE
 * NCommander screams
 * ogra_ wonmders what you are referring to=
<NCommander> ogra_: madness
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Server Status (NCommander)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Server Status (NCommander)
<ogra_> there were no items added
<NCommander> So, I've got news!
<theadmin> Can anyone change topic or what...
<theadmin> [topic] tests
<theadmin> Guess not :D
<NCommander> I saved a bunch of money changing my insurance!
<theadmin> Sorry, getting used to things
<ogra_> theadmin, please dont interfere with the meeting
<NCommander> But I also have ARM server news
<theadmin> ogra_: Understood.
<NCommander> armadaxp finally has a usable kernel git tree
<ogra_> theadmin, NCommander is the meeting chairt, only the chair can change topics and we try to keep the meeting short
<janimo> NCommander, great
<ogra_> yay
<rbasak> \o/
<NCommander> Using my gitified marvell patches, cooloney made them less crack, then we ported the Marvell sauce onto the oneiric tree
<NCommander> So we went from 3.0.15->3.0.17 with Marvell
<NCommander> We'll now track oneiric-updates, so we'll have security and updates for Armada until oneiric goes EOL
<ogra_> wow, two micro versions !
<ogra_> enormous
<ogra_> :P
<NCommander> ogra_: it wasn't a small job, the tree we got was based off an ubuntu tree of unknown origin, which required a ton of patch sorting and fun
<rbasak> Are there any plans to bring it up to precise?
<rbasak> Or will it stay based on oneiric indefinitely?
<NCommander> rbasak: Marvell has been told that weneed a 3.2 kernel. We won't be doing the work to port it
<rbasak> OK, thanks
<NCommander> rbasak: the armadaxp kernel will go into precise, its simply tracking oneiric since there tree is on the same major as oneiric's
<rbasak> Right
<NCommander> Unlessa 3.2 kernel magically materializes before release, armada xp will be a universe supported flavor
<ogra_> even though the kernel package will live somewhere else :)
<NCommander> infinity and I are making the necessary demonic sacirifices to get d-i to work properly like that with netboot images
<NCommander> ogra_: no, the kernel going in universe, we decided to fix d-i
<ogra_> NCommander, the kernel will go to main
<ogra_> we have approval and all
<NCommander> we did?
<NCommander> *do
<NCommander> Damn
<ogra_> no d-i hacjking required
<NCommander> we weren't goingto hijack d-i
<ogra_> unless that changed since tuesday
<NCommander> d-i was simply going to pull in the universe udebs during the buildstep
<NCommander> but we got approval for unsupported kernel in main, then yay
<ogra_> we have release team approval, the kernel package will be in main, but unsupported and not in the manifest
<davidm> NCommander, kernel in main
<NCommander> oh
<NCommander> davidm: awesome
<NCommander> That makes life insanely less complicated
<ogra_> (if you would read the team reports you would know btw :P )
<janimo> NCommander, although d-i supporting universe kernels would have been useful in the future for other flavours
<janimo> or for current mx53
<NCommander> Anyway, I'm shacking loosing the last of the packaging bugs (linux-armadaxp tried to build on amd64 for one)
<NCommander> But we should see an upload into NEW byEOD today or tomorrow
<mahmoh> NCommander: how soon do we expect a kernel in main?
<ogra_> janimo, thats super tricky since there (flasely) is a way to get rid of unwanted udebs by moving them to universe ...
<NCommander> mahmoh: once it is approved from NEW, it goes into universe. Just needs a MIR to promote
<ogra_> janimo, making d-i universe aware would break a lot through that
<janimo> ogra_, I am not arguing it is tricky to accomplish, but it is useful :)
<NCommander> janimo: its probably easier to get release/kernel team blessings to dump an unsupported kernel in main
<ogra_> janimo, yes, but we would have to fix that broken concept alongside
<janimo> NCommander, but then it means it is supported. Are there no cases to want it unoficcially supported but workng with d-i. Is netinstall not such a use case?
<ogra_> else we break x86 stuff
<ogra_> which is not wanted before an LTS
<NCommander> janimo: I proposed the solution of rm -r universe
<NCommander> janimo: historically, we've had a few packages inmain that are unsupported
<janimo> NCommander, I can get behind such a command
<NCommander> linux-ports being the poster child for that trope
 * GrueMaster wonders if this is a topic for Kernel Status?
<NCommander> [topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Kernel Status (cooloney, ppisati)
<NCommander> Right
<NCommander> ok
<NCommander> I think we pretty muchcovered the current kernel status
<NCommander> Anything else to bring up
<janimo> ac100 new test deb based on a 3.0.19 upstream advertised on the ac100 ml
<ogra_> janimo has a new ac100 kernel coming :)
<ogra_> and mx5 seems sorted
 * NCommander just got an armel/powerpc FTBFS on linux-armadaxp
<janimo> once marvin puts it in his stable, not exp branch
<NCommander> WOOO
<NCommander> Packaging needs to be hit with a brick
<ogra_> yeah
<janimo> NCommander, I would have been more worried if that build succeeded
<GrueMaster> mx5 kernel still needs work.  It still doesn't support USB on the newer rev board.
<NCommander> janimo: its still running on i386 >.>;
<ogra_> and even more if it worked :)
<ogra_> GrueMaster, dont use USB then :P
 * ogra_ hides behind a chair
 * NCommander facepalms
<janimo> GrueMaster, we should get a 3.2 mx5 kernel sometime, this is 3.1 .
<GrueMaster> For a desktop image not to use keyboard/mouse...difficult.
<ogra_> pfft
<ogra_> be creative !
<NCommander> write a script
<ogra_> use your soldering skills ... its a dev board after all
<GrueMaster> oem-config doesn't use preseed other wise I would.
<NCommander> ^- ogra_
<NCommander> Care to fix that? :-)
<GrueMaster> And I refuse to molest any of my stock dev boards.
<ogra_> NCommander, yes, after FF
<ogra_> its tasked
<NCommander> cool
<GrueMaster> Soldering iron == bad touch.
<ogra_> try the other side :P
<NCommander> ew
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
<NCommander> libo is broken
<NCommander> mono is broken
<NCommander> four letter words are broken
<janimo> given back empathy anf gnome-games on armhf
<GrueMaster> No, say it isn't so....
<janimo> armel is still waiting for the fixed mesa to build
<NCommander> janimo: package name? I'll rescore
<ogra_> upstart seems to need some love
<janimo> NCommander, waiting for build to finish, it has started 8 h ago
<janimo> finished in 1h:30 on armhf
<ogra_> and indeed qtwebkit
<janimo> we need more pandas in the build center
<NCommander> janimo: ow
<ogra_> well, all images failed due to empathy/gnome-games
<ogra_> (but thats for a later topic)
<janimo> due to mesa egl not providing some deps
<janimo> so not actually a change in those gnome apps
<NCommander> movingon
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<ogra_> awww, did they switcfh them to clutter ?
<ogra_> well, all images failed due to empathy/gnome-games
<ogra_> :)
<janimo> ogra_, I think gnome games has been using clutter for a long time
 * ogra_ likes his "up" key
<janimo> empathy, no idea.
<ogra_> k
<ogra_> we should test performance then
<janimo> empathy uses every technology
<ogra_> GrueMaster, can you do a quick check with your next desktop tests ?
<ogra_> just to see if they are still usable
<GrueMaster> Check what?
<ogra_> (i.e. play mahjongg for 5 min)
<GrueMaster> WHAT?!?!?  Me play a game???
<ogra_> not sure how to test empathy
 * GrueMaster shuders
<ogra_> you could try a voip call or so
<janimo> I think we should drop games altogether and let people use games in their browser
<ogra_> ++
<ogra_> tell that to -desktop though
<NCommander> GrueMaster: try playing Skyrim with qemu-user-i386 + wine on ARM
<GrueMaster> Yea, I'll check them
<ogra_> NCommander, qemu-x86 wont run
<GrueMaster> Erm, no.
<janimo> well if I was in charge I'd drop empathy too and the whole telepathy baggage
<ogra_> threading issues i was told by linaro
<janimo> but I am not
<GrueMaster> Alien Arena on panda might be interesting though.
<ogra_> cant make it work
<ogra_> well, thats all about images i had :)
<NCommander> nethack works great on ARM, what other game do you need?
<GrueMaster> Zork works too.
 * NCommander does wish Dwarf Fortress was opensource so he could 1. package it 2.compile it on ARM
<GrueMaster> Just saying.
<ogra_> well, wait until nethack gets switched to clutter too
<NCommander> ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH\
<NCommander> HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
<ogra_> upstream has funny ideas lately
<ogra_> to clutter the world etc
<janimo> nethack too works in a browser I hear
<janimo> we need less apps in the image, so we have fewer bugs
<janimo> :)
<ogra_> haha
<ogra_> NCommander, move ?
<NCommander> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster, mahmoh)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: QA Status (GrueMaster, mahmoh)
<GrueMaster> Spot tested 20120207.1 desktop armhf images yesterday.  mx5 had a few issues (HDMI addon board had it confused, and START-R still doesn't see USB).
<GrueMaster> Also worked up a few scripts to start testing on arm server (LAMP, Ruby on Rails, suspend/resume).
<GrueMaster> Tested the 3.0.17 kernel on armadaxp.  The Marvell patches do something wacky to mmap, it fails to allocate above 2900M.
<GrueMaster> That bug was fixed in all other arm kernels (bug 861296).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 861296 in linux-ti-omap4 (Ubuntu Oneiric) "mmap fails to allocate 2030Mb heap on ARM" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/861296
<GrueMaster> Starting to dive into power meter testing today/tomorrow.  Hope to have some data starting next week.
<GrueMaster> Not much else to report.  Just lots of work going on.
<ogra_> http://image.img-erento.com/20171/5073643_dia_2.jpg
<ogra_> power meter testing ?
<NCommander> [topic] Linaro Updates (rsalveti)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Linaro Updates (rsalveti)
 * rsalveti waves
<GrueMaster> Using a power meter to measure system amp load while running.
<rsalveti> we're all busy at connect mostly this week
<rsalveti> but we worked on helping fixing a bunch of multiarch related packages
<rsalveti> and the cross buildd is almost ready, just fixing the web interface to be easy to use
<ogra_> GrueMaster, i was referring to the pic :)
<rsalveti> another good thing is that riku is now working on trying to get libreoffice to build and work for armhf
 * ogra_ humps rsalveti's leg
<rsalveti> NCommander: just make sure you send everything you had in the past
<rsalveti> if you didn't do it already
<GrueMaster> So, another duplication of effort?  Great.
<ogra_> GrueMaster, no, a handover
<rsalveti> not duplication, we're working together on this
<NCommander> rsalveti: you have a time machine?
<rsalveti> :-)
<rsalveti> meanwhile steve is working on ruby and haskell I believe
<rsalveti> but it's probably not critical for the desktop
<rsalveti> should have a better report next week, once connect is done :-)
<rsalveti> but that's mostly it
<rsalveti> I asked the freescale LT to fix the imx53 3.2 kernel
<rsalveti> we'll see how it goes
<rsalveti> questions?
<janimo> rsalveti, do you know about omap4 sgc for armhf?
<janimo> omap3
<janimo> sorry
<ogra_> rsalveti, is anyone ever looking at chromium again ?
<rsalveti> janimo: we hope that koen will get this fixed and released soon
<ogra_> i wonder what we should do with it, the binary in the archive is three releases old
<janimo> rsalveti, ok thanks
<rsalveti> I'll talk with him next week, but he was working on getting it available for angstrom
<rsalveti> ogra_: if we get a new release, we update
<rsalveti> otherwise we'll just kill it  for now
<NCommander> anything else
<rsalveti> I believe we'll get it at some point, not yet sure for precise
<ogra_> rsalveti, well, there were three (or four) new releases
<rsalveti> ogra_: is chromium broken again?
<ogra_> it didnt build since natty
<ogra_> or even before
<rsalveti> I remember riku said it was fixed, maybe with debian, will ping him today
<rsalveti> .. :-)
<ogra_> i think he only made it cross buildable
<ogra_> it still fails in the archive
<rsalveti> well, if it works by cross building it there's hope to have it working natively
<ogra_> right, iirc there were issues with ffmpeg or so
<ogra_> riku will likely know more
<rsalveti> #action rsalveti to follow with riku to see if chromium will get fixed
<meetingology> ACTION: rsalveti to follow with riku to see if chromium will get fixed
<ogra_> or micahg ... iirc he took over from riku but gave up
<rsalveti> #action rsalveti to follow with koen at ELC to see if we'll get armhf drivers for sgx (omap3)
<meetingology> ACTION: rsalveti to follow with koen at ELC to see if we'll get armhf drivers for sgx (omap3)
<NCommander> [topic] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<NCommander> closing the meeting out in 3
<NCommander> 2
<NCommander> 1
<NCommander> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Feb  9 15:55:11 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-09-15.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-09-15.00.html
<micahg> ogra_: I didn't give up, just haven't had time to work on it yet
<ogra_> ah, well
<ubunterodelaoxti> hello world
<EvilResistance> AlanBell:  chance a /query?
<EvilResistance> s/chance/can you spare time for/
<AlanBell> EvilResistance: sure
<Myrtti> nice timing
<Tm_T> yup
 * theadmin indicates she's here and waiting for the meeting to begin.
<Tm_T> whatever it is you're referring to
<Unit193> Tm_T: Funky timeout
<Tm_T> that too
<Myrtti> indeedy
<EvilResistance> i'm also waiting for the meeting to begin, just checking something for one of the items on the agenda though :P
<Pici> \o
<AlanBell> afternoon all
<theadmin> Hey everyone :)
<AlanBell> everyone sitting comfortably with $beverage at hand?
 * theadmin sure is
<EvilResistance> AlanBell:  check the last set of privmsgs, btw
<AlanBell> EvilResistance: yeah, got that :)
<AlanBell> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Feb  9 20:02:35 2012 UTC.  The chair is AlanBell. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<oCean> o/
<AlanBell> #meetingtopic IRCC team meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRCC team meeting Meeting | Current topic:
<AlanBell> #meetingtopic IRCC team
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRCC team Meeting | Current topic:
<pangolin> o/
<AlanBell> hi all and welcome to the IRCC and team meeting
<Pici> hi!
<AlanBell> agenda is over here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda
<AlanBell> and I think we can go fairly swiftly through the first section and on to some of the topics deferred from the last meeting
<AlanBell> so lets start
<AlanBell> #topic Review last meetings action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRCC team Meeting | Current topic:  Review last meetings action items
<AlanBell> #progress AlanBell to call for helpers to implement eir-like functionality in ubottu
<AlanBell> yeah, I kind of failed to do that, however EvilResistance has just been talking about experimenting with some very relevant code
<AlanBell> I will do the mail to the list this evening and we can discuss that further in an agenda item down the list
<AlanBell> #progress meeting timeslots to be taken to the mailing list, 11:00UTC slot is in danger of being dropped
<Pici> sounds good
<AlanBell> we did discuss other times and picked this time for todays meeting
<theadmin> 11:00 UTC isn't really a comfortable time I beleive, sounds good for me too
<AlanBell> I kind of need to sort out the fridge calendar properly
<AlanBell> theadmin: yeah, we tried and couldn't find *anyone* who liked that slot
<Unit193> Jussi did though
<AlanBell> I am currently thinking we should have a predictable one every other sunday evening as it is now, and a less predictable one that bounces about
<AlanBell> not every other Sunday, every third or fourth sunday or something
<AlanBell> #action AlanBell to sort out fridge calendar entries
<meetingology> ACTION: AlanBell to sort out fridge calendar entries
<AlanBell> ok, any other comments on timings?
<Tm_T> yeah, meeting times could move a bit occasionally
<AlanBell> #topic Open items in the IRCC tracker
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRCC team Meeting | Current topic:  Open items in the IRCC tracker
<AlanBell> there has been no activity to report
<AlanBell> #topic Review Bugs related to the Ubuntu IRC Council
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRCC team Meeting | Current topic:  Review Bugs related to the Ubuntu IRC Council
<AlanBell> not much bug activity since the last meeting either, so lets whip through them fairly quick
<AlanBell> #subtopic bug 788503 IRC Guidelines too #ubuntu centric - tsimpson
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 788503 in ubuntu-community "IRC Guidelines too #ubuntu centric" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/788503
<theadmin> That kind of makes sense. I think separate guidelines for -offtopic, -irc and -ops are required.
<AlanBell> there is a draft that should be linked to from the bug
<Tm_T> theadmin: there will be one guideline to rule them all
<pangolin> theadmin: I disagree the guidelines should be the same for all ubuntu* channels.
<Pici> aye
<LjL> i don't think separate guidelines are required, guidelines are guidelines, we have bot factoids for more specific things
<pangolin> I disagree, *
<theadmin> Well, either that or rule out the current guideline to be suitable for all the channels. Yeah, that sounds better.
<pangolin> what is the hold up on the draft?
<AlanBell> someone have a link to the draft handy?
<pangolin> hmm, it is on a kde.pad somesuch link
<Tm_T> I thought the draft was already approved and implemented :o
<pangolin> Tm_T: hasn't been changed on the wiki
<Tm_T> hohum
<Unit193> http://notes.kde.org/ubuntuguidelines
<Pici> The draft should be on the wiki in /irc/ somewhere imo.
<AlanBell> thanks Unit193, I added that to the bug
<AlanBell> ok, will have a look at that later
<AlanBell> #subtopic bug 884671 Ubuntu IRC operator recruitment is slow and ungainly - jussi
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 884671 in ubuntu-community "Ubuntu IRC operator recruitment is slow and ungainly" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/884671
 * Pici makes a note to look over the guidelines document
<AlanBell> recruitment is ongoing, we need to look at the other channel queues perhaps
<theadmin> That xD I'm here because I'm a wannabe op so that's of major interest for me. I'd be happy to help out really.
<AlanBell> great
<AlanBell> anyone know any channels in need of a call for ops?
<EvilResistance> i've put my name in for consideration for op on #ubuntu, so this was one of the items on the list that piqued my interest ;P
<EvilResistance> (for the record)
<Pici> When?
<pangolin> Doesn't the IRCC only do calls for the core channels?
<EvilResistance> Pici:  last 7 days, dont bother with putting me onto any ops list without further vetting
<AlanBell> pangolin: yes
<theadmin> Stuff which happens on #ubuntu nowadays is annoying, too many ciao-!list-italians (nothing we can do with them though), and huge mass of spambots and trolls :(
<theadmin> Ops care about that, but not always around
<EvilResistance> theadmin makes a point, there have been times i've seen spam occurring, pulled !ops, and it wasnt dealt with for a significant period of time
<EvilResistance> generally when freenode staffers are also not around, so going to them for emegency help doesnt work
<Tm_T> AlanBell: eh, we had this kind of discussion going on too?
<AlanBell> Pici: just asking if there is an urgent need in any particular area
 * Tm_T needs to follow things more closely it seems
<pangolin> AlanBell: not at this time IMO
<Pici> AlanBell: I know.  My question was directed at EvilResistance.
<oCean> I think -server probably still lacks op coverage every now and then
<Tm_T> oCean: I don't see ops calls there happening
<AlanBell> Tm_T: well the general bug is about how we do recruitment, which we are in the process of doing with the #lubuntu channel and others will follow
<Pici> An ops responsibilities are more than just answering Â¡ops calls.
<EvilResistance> Pici:  i've put my name into the queue on the launchpad site just 4 days ago, i removed it about 17 days before that after putting myself in for consideration because of several issues that occurred simultaneously in that same time period
<Tm_T> AlanBell: yeah, just that it's hidden in bug report (not mailinglist)
<AlanBell> anyhow, lets move on, I want to get to a bunch of the main topics
<Tm_T> Pici: I aknowledge, just wondering the need (:
<Pici> Aye
<theadmin> Hm, aye. Even though this one is important.
<AlanBell> Tm_T: well it is a bug report which is discussed in every meeting, so not very well hidden
<Tm_T> AlanBell: I know, I just haven't been following meetings, only mailinglist
<EvilResistance> (including but not limited to family issues)
<Tm_T> and poorly that too
<EvilResistance> s/issues/emergency items/
<pangolin> AlanBell: I think the current process is fine. IRCC makes a call, people apply, ask current ops opinions?? ,IRCC makes a decision .
<AlanBell> Tm_T: the one that I post the minutes to :)
<AlanBell> anyhow, lets crack on
<AlanBell> #subtopic bug 913541 there are a number of people with Ubuntu IRC cloaks who have expired from the ubuntumembers group - AlanBell
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 913541 in ubuntu-community "there are a number of people with Ubuntu IRC cloaks who have expired from the ubuntumembers group" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/913541
<AlanBell> no further progress on this one, down to about 15 I think, we will do more on that soon
<AlanBell> #subtopic bug 916247 devel wiki on ubottu.com needs some attention - AlanBell
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 916247 in ubuntu-community "devel wiki on ubottu.com needs some attention" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/916247
<Pici> Are we still going to move this to wiki.u.c?
<AlanBell> it was cleaned up which is great, and it would be nice to migrate the content on to wiki.ubuntu.com still
<theadmin> I think that'd be a good point... I didn't even know ubottu had it's own wiki o_o
<AlanBell> I think moving it is a low priority now that it has been de-spammed
<Pici> k
<AlanBell> theadmin: it only has a small number of pages http://ubottu.com/devel/wiki/Special:AllPages
<AlanBell> ok, lets get on to the main topics now
<theadmin> In that case, merging it with the main wiki makes most sense
<AlanBell> #topic The plan for the bots
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRCC team Meeting | Current topic:  The plan for the bots
 * funkywhat grumbles. Sorry I'm late everyone
<AlanBell> hi funkywhat o/
<theadmin> ohai
<Pici> This is a rather vauge topic.
<AlanBell> so EvilResistance has some plans for eir-like ban timeout removals which is great
<funkywhat> My cheap VPS picked a choice time to decide to die
<AlanBell> it is a vauge topic
<EvilResistance> AlanBell:  you should, in fact, be giving niko the credit.
<pangolin> what is the plan?
<EvilResistance> i started looking for eir-like bantracker and ban removal functionality about a month ago for #trekweb, my group's channel, and niko presented the ubotufr code.
<EvilResistance> Bundled up in it is a Channel plugin that has integrated bantracker and ban removal
<LjL> EvilResistance: so this would replace the existing bantracker entirely?
<EvilResistance> LjL:  its been a while since i've dug around in the current structure of #ubuntu and related channel bantrackers, but it could indeed.
<EvilResistance> thus far, i've tested the +q and +b tracking functionality with success
<EvilResistance> and confirmed autoremoval of bans does operate
<LjL> I'll just say, keep in mind that things need to scale. #ubuntu is big, and it's possible that something that works for smaller channels does not for it...
<pangolin> I think we need something that would use the existing bantracker
<AlanBell> yeah, I think so too
<EvilResistance> pangolin:  if i might inquire, what is the current bantracker?
<LjL> pangolin: well, the existing bantracker does have its own set of issues, and there have been previous attempts to replace it.
<theadmin> Agreed. The current one seems to work fine, though I've seen accidents (like it unbanning people ops have just banned)
<LjL> theadmin: that's not the bantracker, that's eir
<theadmin> Oh
<theadmin> What is eir if I may ask
<theadmin> ?
<pangolin> LjL: my concern is to not lose the data we have gathered in the bantracker.
<EvilResistance> eir's freenode's utility bot
<LjL> The bantracker is have is a private website that we use to keep logs of bans.
<theadmin> EvilResistance: Ah, thanks.
<LjL> pangolin: yes, that should be migrated in case of a replacement.,
<EvilResistance> it has bantracker functionality built in.
<EvilResistance> theadmin:  see #defocus :P
<EvilResistance> its also the voice-bot there
<Pici> EvilResistance: any new bantracker will need to have the old bans migrated into it.
<EvilResistance> indeed.
<niko> i doubt sqlite can handle that :)
<theadmin> That too, and that might be a problem depending on database structures.
<AlanBell> I am mainly thinking that ubottu needs to grow some code for ban timeouts, which might well be releated to code existing in ubottufr
<AlanBell> or might not
 * Pici too
<pangolin> +1
<theadmin> I apologize for my lack of knowledge (is my first time here), but isn't ubottu mainly just a factoid bot?
<AlanBell> plus there are a heap of other plugins in the ubottufr codebase which do interesting things
<Myrtti> theadmin: no, not really
<AlanBell> theadmin: that is the tip of a fairly substantial iceburg
<pangolin> theadmin: the user facing part of it yes.
<EvilResistance> theadmin:  if i'm not mistaken, its also got bugtracker modules in it, amongst other supybot modules which are available
<theadmin> Ah yeah the bugtracker
<theadmin> I see
<Pici> And the package info stuff.
<Tm_T> it also nags to us
<Tm_T> nagity nagity nag
<AlanBell> and the floodbot integration
<Tm_T> <3
<Unit193> Generally, http://ubottu.com/devel/wiki/Plugins
<LjL> Anyway, I'd personally be looking for a short term solution right now, i.e. hacking ban removal into ubottu.
<pangolin> I think the best thing would be to implement fresh code or translate some of niko's code if applicable and make it work with what we have.
<LjL> Then replacing the bantracker would still be something to be considered (because it *is* old).
<AlanBell> yup, agreed
<AlanBell> ok, so some actions arising from this?
<pangolin> ask for help from the users
<pangolin> email the users list and see who is willing to hack at ubottu
<pangolin> or help hack it
<AlanBell> ok. I will do that this evening
<AlanBell> #action AlanBell to mail the list asking for help to add ban timeout removal to ubottu
<meetingology> ACTION: AlanBell to mail the list asking for help to add ban timeout removal to ubottu
<pangolin> include what channel and who to talk to :)
<theadmin> ubottu is python right?
<ubottu> theadmin: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<AlanBell> in the email, right
 * theadmin considers
<AlanBell> theadmin: yes, she is
<EvilResistance> theadmin:  ubottu's supybot if i remember right...
<pangolin> theadmin: yeah
<LjL> Remember there is still #ubuntu-bots-team. I think even though it's little used, people who want to brainstorm *should* do it there.
<AlanBell> LjL: yes, that is where I was going to say in the mail
<AlanBell> ok, lets move on for now
<EvilResistance> forgive the ignorance, but which mailing list is the users mailing list?
<AlanBell> #topic Definition of where official announcements from the IRCC will be made for those with a need for no discussion but announcements - jussi
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRCC team Meeting | Current topic:  Definition of where official announcements from the IRCC will be made for those with a need for no discussion but announcements - jussi
<pangolin> EvilResistance: ubuntu-users@list.ubuntu.com iirc
<AlanBell> ubuntu-irc@lists.ubuntu.com
<pangolin> ah that
<Pici> Isn't there a news/fridge thing on the planet too?
<jussi> well, Im here...
<pangolin> jussi: :)
<AlanBell> so this item from jussi was asking where we announce things
<AlanBell> jussi: \o/
<pangolin> Pici: asking planet is a good idea also
<LjL> Last time, someone (maybe me) was saying that those of you who blog, could agree on a "tag" to use for IRCC-related stuff...
<AlanBell> personally I am kind of keen on announcing things in meetings so they are minuted, and sending to the mailing list and or news team as appropriate
<jussi> as I said in the background, I would like to have a central place all these things are - the problem with ircc'ers individual blogs are that they change, if you were looking for all the announcements now, where would you need to go, my blog, topyli's, elkys etc etc
<LjL> jussi: hence a tag
<Tm_T> AlanBell: meetings good, but should never be that alone (:
<Pici> A dedicated place on the wiki could be used then
<LjL> jussi: if you're aggregated on the planet, one could search for that, no?
<jussi> I think we can learn from freenodes successful blogging here
<AlanBell> yeah, I don't think blogs are so great
<theadmin> A tag for all blog's and then a central aggregator, sure
<Tm_T> in the end, best way to catch irc people is, tadaa, irc /:
<theadmin> Then again I don't blog lol
<AlanBell> Tm_T: yes, which is why I like IRC meetings :)
<Tm_T> AlanBell: that way there's mailing list trace too
<theadmin> Yeah IRC
<jussi> Tm_T: but irc sucks for this kinds of stuff. its hard to parse, hard for finding old stuff
<Tm_T> but nothing stops doing blogs too
<Tm_T> jussi: I know
<jussi> doesnt suit longer announcements.
<LjL> But I do kind of agree with AlanBell, the actual/official/whatever-you-call-it place to announce things should be on the mailing list (which can come on its turn from meeting minutes), the rest being accessory.
<theadmin> Mailing lists are need, although... Say, are Ubuntu's mailing lists available as RSS feeds?
<LjL> jussi: but you have minutes from the meetings on the mailing list
<funkyHat> Planets don't keep reasonable amount of history, I don't think, so that's probably not ideal
<Tm_T> jussi: don't ask how often I grep through my multigigabyte logs...
<AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/IRCC
<AlanBell> I think there is a disconnect here, between "the official place to announce stuff" and "places to get announcements read and archived by lots of people"
<Tm_T> irc meetings covers irc and mailinglist, people can write longer announcements to mailinglist after/before the meeting and the same message can be blogged...
<AlanBell> and it isn't just announcements I think
<jussi> AlanBell: minutes are one thing, blog posts are another. the blog posts are supposed to have the deeper explanation of what the ircc has done, and perhaps why. Its announcements, but with reason as well.
<AlanBell> so things like a call for ops gets announced in a meeting, gets mailed to the list, goes to the news team
<Pici> I don't think that there can be only one place for announcements.
<Tm_T> Pici: I agree
<AlanBell> jussi: are you proposing specifically that the IRCC set up a blog somewhere?
<Tm_T> but there has to be one starting point, from where you then spread it further
<Pici> The wiki makes the most sense to me.
<jussi> AlanBell: yes, I am. making a multi user blog is minimal work.
<theadmin> Agreed. Mailing lists aren't central, blogs have the same problem to a degree... I guess if we had a central blogs/news site it would work
<jussi> we could have one up on ubottu.com in a short time
<Pici> I think the IRC team landing page on the wiki is the best place.
<AlanBell> jussi: it is minimal work, but an empty blog is a sad sad thing, we need to know if it is something we can love and care for
<AlanBell> this page Pici? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcTeam
<Unit193> I have found more info in blogs in the past
<jussi> AlanBell: yes, agreed. that of course is something for the ircc to decide if thwey can maintain.
<theadmin> Then again blogging usually means more or less long announcements
<jussi> AlanBell: what Im proposing is somethign like the freenode blog
<theadmin> For something short we could probably set up a status.net setup or something...
<theadmin> I dunno even
<AlanBell> http://blog.freenode.net/
<theadmin> jussi: We know :) AlanBell tries to make a point that not all members would care for it
<theadmin> jussi: Maybe, that is
<AlanBell> well we could post meeting minutes there at least
<Myrtti> freenode does have a facebook/google+/twitter/identica-accounts for quick "oh noes, verne kicked the bucket" messages...
<jussi> Im really sorry, need to go tend to the little one, I think Ive made my point though
<AlanBell> thanks jussi
<Tm_T> Myrtti: and wallop (so irc)
<Tm_T> jussi: give a hug from me
<AlanBell> so it wouldn't be much effort to set up a blog, but it is one more thing to have and maintain
<Myrtti> Tm_T: if something on freenode side is broken, people don't have access to it necessarily...
<AlanBell> and probably wouldn't get used massively often
<Myrtti> so it has to be offsite as well
<Tm_T> Myrtti: yup, thus not relying on just one
<Tm_T> medium
<AlanBell> gah, we need to move on, I think we need to consider this and decide next meeting
<pangolin> I think I agree with AlanBell that irc stuff should be done on irc and also with pici in backing it up with w.u.c
<Tm_T> anyway, I think things should be said on irc meeting, thus mailinglist, and if there's anything worth a blog post, then do that too
<Tm_T> but in this order
<AlanBell> yes
<LjL> agreed
<theadmin> Sounds great for me
<Pici> yes
<pangolin> yup
<funkyHat> ok
<LjL> sÃ­
<pangolin> we have consensus.
<pangolin> the Borg prevail
 * funkyHat asplodes
<AlanBell> so I think we can agree that "the definition of where official announcemnets will be made" is in an IRCC meeting
<Tm_T> yes
<theadmin> Yeah :)
<AlanBell> and then we communicate out from there, in routes which may or may not include a team blog at some point
<AlanBell> #agreed official announcements from the IRCC will be made in IRCC meetings on IRC with minutes and articles distributed as appropriate
<AlanBell> #topic Using bots to inform users about #ubuntu-ops (and their expected behavior there) when they are banned - LjL
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRCC team Meeting | Current topic:  Using bots to inform users about #ubuntu-ops (and their expected behavior there) when they are banned - LjL
<AlanBell> yeah, lets do that :)
<LjL> ok so my proposed announcement for the bot to give would be
<LjL> You have been banned from #ubuntu. If you believe this ban was in error or want to appeal it, join the channel #ubuntu-ops and discuss it. Please be calm and patient and avoid being confrontational while there. Your ban will only be resolved if the operators can be convinced you can act reasonably.
<LjL> like yes/no
<theadmin> Replace #ubuntu with $channel or something like that.
<theadmin> But otherwise looks good heh
<LjL> sure
<theadmin> Should be in a privmsg imo
<pangolin> I would remove "Your ban will only be resolved if the operators can be convinced you can act reasonably."
<theadmin> Otherwise the user might not notice it.
<LjL> it would certainly be in PM
<funkyHat> pangolin: why?
<AlanBell> theadmin: it would have to be, they have just been kicked out of the channel
<pangolin> might invite some to act as if they will follow the guidelines only to have the ban removed and continue trolling/whatever got them banned.
<theadmin> AlanBell: My point -- most clients close the window on part/kick
<LjL> if the floodbots are going to do this, though, it will only work for #ubuntu. otherwise ubottu could do it I guess, but in that case I'm not sure I could implement it myself.
<AlanBell> ah, good point
<theadmin> Hm yeah
<oCean> I agree with pangolin, not sure how to rephrase that last part yet
<AlanBell> I think it would probably be best done by ubottu (or the floodbots would have to figure out which one is doing the messaging)
<pangolin> otherwise I like the idea and we should get it started asap
<LjL> AlanBell: that shouldn't be a problem, the floodbots already decide that among themselves with other kinds of messages
<AlanBell> ok
<LjL> The thing is, with the floodbots, I could do it within the next 10 minutes in all likelihood, with ubottu, who knows.
<AlanBell> anyhow, having it in ubottu makes sense to me, could be useful for all the lubotu clones but sending to #ubuntu-irc
<pangolin> I need to step away. thanks for the good meeting folks.
<AlanBell> #agreed private message from bots on ban explaining how to get to #ubuntu-ops would be a good feature
<AlanBell> #topic Concerns about using goo.gl short links in the topic/bot due to Google's privacy policy changes - LjL
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRCC team Meeting | Current topic:  Concerns about using goo.gl short links in the topic/bot due to Google's privacy policy changes - LjL
<AlanBell> ok, for this one I believe we are all sorted LjL?
<Pici> Are we?
<Pici> Or can the rest of us be enlightened?
<AlanBell> and yeah, we are running slightly over time
<LjL> About this one, in case anyone missed the news, Google are changing their privacy policy, and they will aggregate all data from users among their various services.
<LjL> I don't like us supporting that aggregation, and I would rather switch to a different shortener.
<LjL> I've set up one on ubottu.com that could serve our purpose.
<theadmin> That sounds great, I wanted to suggest using our own as well.
<theadmin> Because that will never change rules without our approval.
<Pici> I'd prefer something that doesn't break if ubottu.com goes down.
<LjL> Advantages are: it has detailed statistics we can use; it can allow things like http://ubottu.com/y/gl for the Guidelines URL, i.e. our custom shortcuts
<LjL> Pici: anything can go down, can it not?
<theadmin> Yeah that's just paranoia pici, anything goes down. Sorry, no offense but >.<
<AlanBell> Pici: well if ubottu.com goes down then ubottu won't be handing out factoids with links in them
<LjL> AlanBell: although there is still the channel topic
<LjL> which is where most "short" links are currently found
<AlanBell> yeah, it isn't a general purpose public shortening service, just for topic links and factoid contents, with links being created by any ops
<theadmin> What's the point of shortening links anyway? Most lead to pages with pretty short URLs anyway, I don't really see long ones. Then again it's good to have things like that at handy
<LjL> But I do think when ubottu.com goes down, we have worse concerns than the links
<LjL> like missing the bot, the bantracker and ALL THE THINGS
<Pici> Beacuse the topic and factoids are limited by the number of characters they can be
<LjL> theadmin: http://help.ubuntu.com/community/Blah is not very short ;)
<theadmin> LjL: Not really, much shorter than URLs I keep accidentally pasting from Google searches
<AlanBell> I was tempted to get a really short URL for it by I couldn't find a nice one available
<AlanBell> anyhow, lets move on as this topic is mostly resolved I think
<AlanBell> #topic Rename "probation" to "induction" in the IRC operator recruitment process - AlanBell
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRCC team Meeting | Current topic:  Rename "probation" to "induction" in the IRC operator recruitment process - AlanBell
<theadmin> Agreed, let's decide on ubottu.com shortener for that one and move on
<AlanBell> what do you think of this?
<LjL> what's in a name
<theadmin> hhmmmm... In my opinion it should be just called "testing period" :/ Neither "probation" nor "induction" make much sense to me
<AlanBell> I think probation is a bit negative sounding
<Tm_T> theadmin: testing?
<theadmin> Tm_T: Isn't it just that? Testing the new op?
<LjL> well, as a speaker of not-English as a native language, I understand neither "probation" nor "induction", so no difference for me :P
<AlanBell> it is more of an introductory/training period
<Pici> probationary period makes sense too though
<AlanBell> theadmin: well that would be probation
<Tm_T> theadmin: we don't do any tests
<funkyHat> probation makes sense but I agree it does sound somewhat negative. I would prefer induction
<EvilResistance> theadmin:  perhaps "observation period"?  if you want to get rid of the potential condescending nature of the word "probation"
<theadmin> EvilResistance: That actually sounds good
<Tm_T> introduction?
<theadmin> That too
<theadmin> Actually much a wide topic xD
<Tm_T> I did read induction first as introduction
<theadmin> Could call it anything
<LjL> I do suspect it originally was intended as a period when you not only train the op, but also decide whether they're quite ready to be an op. Not sure that has ever been spelled out explicitly, but...
<AlanBell> LjL: well to me "induction" emphasises training and introductory stuff, "probation" emphasises observation and testing and the possible failing to be accepted
<AlanBell> when that isn't really what we want to be doing, we want people to be helped to be good ops
<Pici> Its a hand-holding period. I think thats more that just observation.
<AlanBell> yes
<theadmin> I still wish we'd use something which'd be obvious to non-native speakers *without* google translate :D
<theadmin> "induction" is not a word you hear often
<Myrtti> apart from induction stoves
<Myrtti> :-|
<Tm_T> ^
<AlanBell> ok, it is pretty standard terminology in the UK, I don't know what it is called in other countries when you get a job
<oCean> probation
<EvilResistance> AlanBell:  probationary or introductory period
<Tm_T> probation here atleast
<LjL> "introductory period" sounds good to me
<AlanBell> yeah, that is OK
<oCean> yep, sounds fine
<Tm_T> I'll slip to my other duties, bye all
<theadmin> Sounds good although doesn't point out the "may get rejected" part
<AlanBell> yeah, I don't think we need to point that out quite so loudly :)
<Pici> I'm sure if the situation comes to that the wording of the period will be the least of our worries.
<Myrtti> in theory all of us could be demoted if we decide to act up and burn the channel with us
<AlanBell> indeed, we can deal with those kind of situations, I am just seeking to use more positive language
<AlanBell> Myrtti: you could indeed ;)
<elky> "support may be withdrawn"
<LjL> Yeah but on the other hand, if it's clear that the possibility exists especially during that period, maybe it'll make it easier if it does happen, I don't know
<funkyHat> Ok, I'm happy with introductory perido too
<theadmin> Yeah. Let's have that :)
<AlanBell> ok, I think a vote is in order
<AlanBell> #voters Pici AlanBell funkyHat
<meetingology> Current voters: AlanBell Pici funkyHat
<AlanBell> #vote change op recruitment terminology from "probation" to "introductory period"
<meetingology> Please vote on: change op recruitment terminology from "probation" to "introductory period"
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<Pici> +1
<AlanBell> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from AlanBell
<meetingology> +1 received from Pici
<theadmin> +1
<funkyHat> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from funkyHat
<AlanBell> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: change op recruitment terminology from "probation" to "introductory period"
<meetingology> Votes for:3 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<Pici> theadmin: you're not funkyHat!
<oCean> AlanBell: I would not mind moving the other agenda items to next meeting..
<AlanBell> oCean: great, I was going to suggest that
 * Pici too
<theadmin> Pici: Indeed I'm not... Sorry, didn't realize I may not cast a vote
<AlanBell> oCean: I will mention them in the minutes mail so people see them before the next one
<oCean> great
<AlanBell> theadmin: don't worry its fine, the bot is clever like that and ignored you
<Pici> theadmin: its fine :P
<AlanBell> next meeting is on Sunday the something or other at 6PM
<funkyHat> I've been impersonated before, and I'll be impersonated again ;)
<oCean> thanks all o/
<EvilResistance> funkyHat:  it happens to all of us :P
<AlanBell> Sunday 26th I think
<AlanBell> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Feb  9 21:22:27 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-09-20.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-09-20.02.html
<theadmin> Just to make sure, I may sit here without being a part of the Council? Or am I just so lucky to sit through a whole meeting without getting banned? :D
<AlanBell> theadmin: yes, it is a whole team meeting
<Pici> theadmin: our meetings are open to everyone.
<AlanBell> just the council vote on things
<theadmin> All I want is to help out as much as I can so
<theadmin> Ah, great
<EvilResistance> as do I, and i'm not a member of the council xD
<AlanBell> but we want opinions and advice from everyone
<funkyHat> ^this
<Pici> theadmin: You may want to consider hanging out in #ubuntu-irc too, its not *that* busy of a channel, but there are some miscellaneous IRC things mentioned in there every few days.
<EvilResistance> Pici:  so #ubuntu-irc is a lurking-allowed zone?
<theadmin> :) I'm glad the team is so open then... Wish they were like that with the distro itself. Doubt that many would vote on "switch to unity"..
<theadmin> lol
<EvilResistance> i always assumed it wasnt
<theadmin> EvilResistance: #ubuntu-ops isn't
<theadmin> EvilResistance: -irc is
<AlanBell> lurking is totally allowed there
<EvilResistance> well that i know, theadmin :P
<EvilResistance> AlanBell:  then i just found another channel to stay perpetually connected to :P
<theadmin> Heh, I usually /part if I can't keep track of the channel... Long as I have no real duties in the channel
<Unit193> They{ll generally listen to you in the meeting even if they think you are weird (Just look this direction!)
<theadmin> The only weird thing is the word "weird"... i before e >.<
<theadmin> Other than that nothing is :P
<funkyHat> I dunno, Unit193 is pretty weird.
<pangolin> That is how we like him
<pangolin> aka medium rare
<theadmin> heheh
<theadmin> Oh well no point in just idling here.
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-02-10
 * skaet waves
<skaet> hiya Cimi,  welcome.  :)
<Cimi> skaet, whanks :-)
<skaet> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Fri Feb 10 16:01:09 2012 UTC.  The chair is skaet. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<arosales> Hello
<arosales> o/
<highvoltage> howdy
<ogra_> yo
<Cimi> ciao!
 * stgraber waves
<ScottK> o/
<apachelogger> ahoy
<skaet> welcome everyone.  :)   Lets get started....
<skaet> [TOPIC] Release general overview - skaet
<skaet> Please remember to .. when you're done, and o/ if you want us to pause. :)
<skaet> Agenda can be found:
<skaet> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2012-02-10
<skaet> Individual team status links will be added to it from:
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release general overview - skaet
<skaet> #link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-February/thread.html
<skaet> .
<skaet> Schedule is at:
<skaet> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule
<skaet> #link http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars/ubuntu-release-calendar/
<skaet> .
<skaet> Bugs committed to be fixed by the engineering teams can be found:
<skaet> #link http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/kernel-bugs/reports/rls-p-tracking-bugs.html
<skaet> Bugs that you would like the engineering teams to consider for fixing, should be assigned to specific teams, so they can be found.
<skaet> .
<skaet> .
<skaet> Upcoming Dates:
<skaet> - 2012/02/16 - Feature Freeze
<skaet> - 2012/02/16 - 10.04.4
<skaet> - 2012/06/23 - UserInterfaceFreeze
<skaet> - 2012/06/23 - BetaFreeze at 2100 UTC
<skaet> - 2012/02/02 - Beta 1
<skaet> .
<skaet> ***WORKITEMS:***  trend line has definitely improved overall. :D   Thank you!
<skaet> Very much appreciate the effort over the last few weeks, and its lovely seeing all the features roll in.  Please keep up with the workitem updates, and marking things POSTPONED if they're not going to get done this release.
<skaet> #link http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/
<skaet> ..
 * skaet just noticed cut and paste didn't have Feature Freeze time.
<skaet> Feature Freeze is at 2100 UTC
<skaet> any questions before heading in to round table?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Hardware Certification team update - mlegris
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hardware Certification team update - mlegris
<mlegris> ]link] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-February/000819.html
<mlegris> [link] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-February/000819.html
<mlegris> whoops :0
<mlegris> weekly testing skipped in favor of A2 testing
<mlegris> any questions?
<mlegris> seeing none
<mlegris> ..
<skaet> Thanks mlegris!   appreciate you updating the bugs still found to precise.  :)
<mlegris> np skaet :0
<skaet> [TOPIC] QA team update -  jibel
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: QA team update -  jibel
<jibel> #link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-February/000817.html
<jibel> questions/comments ?
<jibel> ..
<seb128> (hey, sorry I'm a bit late, I mixed utc,european times)
<skaet> Thanks for the new report format jibel.   Looks good.  :)
<skaet> and thanks for adding in the 10.04.4 smoke testing results.   Will look into DVD size issue with Daviey and pitti.
<skaet> Thanks for flagging.
<skaet> ..
 * skaet doesn't see other questions.... moving on. 
<skaet> [TOPIC] Security team Q&A - mdeslaur
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Security team Q&A - mdeslaur
<jdstrand> mdeslaur is off today, so I am here
<jdstrand> [LINK]https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-February/000810.html
<jdstrand> Work is ongoing to complete feature by feature freeze, and that is looking good.
<skaet> welcome jdstrand, and seb128 :)
<jdstrand> Not much else to report. Any questions?
<jdstrand> ..
<jdstrand> skaet: thanks!
<skaet> Thanks jdstrand,  no questions, nice that things are smooth for the features.  :)
<skaet> ..
<skaet> [TOPIC] Kernel team Q&A - ogasawara
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Kernel team Q&A - ogasawara
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-February/000809.html
<ogasawara> I was planning to upload 3.2.0-15.24 by end of day today, but now having
<ogasawara> seen the planned gcc-4.6 update over the weekend I might wait to
<ogasawara> upload on Monday.  This upload will contain a few fixes for CVE's,
<ogasawara> resolve some external monitor issues wwith arrandale, and remove some
<ogasawara> harmlessi, yet ominous, warning messages for xHCI.
<ogasawara> Questions?
<ogasawara> ..
<skaet> Thanks ogasawara,  was going to ask if the gcc-4.6 upload was impacting you,  but you've answered.  :)
<ogasawara> skaet: there's nothing critical that has to get out, so we can wait to upload
 * skaet nods
<skaet> I haven't seen anyone else comment on it,  on the list either,  so hopefully no one else impacted.
<skaet> [TOPIC] Foundations team Q&A - stgraber
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Foundations team Q&A - stgraber
<stgraber> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-February/000813.html
<stgraber> questions?
<stgraber> ..
<skaet> Thanks stgraber!   Any feature freeze exceptions being contemplated?
<skaet> ..
<stgraber> not that I'm aware of
 * skaet likes that answer.  :)
<skaet> thanks.
<skaet> [TOPIC] Server team Q&A - arosales
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Server team Q&A - arosales
<arosales> Updated link
<arosales> #link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-February/000828.html
<arosales> Work continues on OpenStack, and Juju-Jitsu landed to help with tool integration with Juju.
<arosales> Also, OpenMPI packaging work is in danger of not making feature freeze. Major impact to anyone?
<arosales> mainly affecting ARM
<skaet> ogra_, ^ ?
<ogra_> skaet, yes ?
<arosales> #linkd https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-p-arm-openmpi
 * ogra_ wonders what he is supposed to say, we will adapt to any arising probs as usual :)
<skaet> thanks ogra_ just wanted to make sure you had a chance to pipe up.  :)
<arosales> orga Do you know if OpenMPI is a critical package need?
<ogra_> arosales, no, sorry, NCommander leads the server stuff, i dont have many infos
<skaet> arosales,  how soon after FF is it likely to land?
<NCommander> arosales: openmpi isconsidered extremely important
<arosales> ogra_: ok, thanks. I'll be sure to touch base with NCommander and team.
<ogra_> ah, there he is :)
<arosales> ah  . . .
<arosales> NCommander: I'll talk to you more offline, thanks for the update.
<arosales> thats all I had for server, any questions/comments?
<arosales> ...
<skaet> Thanks arosales! :)
<skaet> [TOPIC] ARM team Q&A - ogra_
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM team Q&A - ogra_
<ogra_> hi !
<ogra_> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-February/000820.html
<ogra_> there might additionally be some qemu changes that i didnt list (and sorry for the wrong date) ... they will only impact arm though
<ogra_> ..
<skaet> Thanks ogra_!
<skaet> what's the status on armel vs. armhf?   we disabling armel soon?
<ogra_> ask again next thu. :)
<ogra_> but yeah, looks like it will be armhf
<skaet> lol,  will do.
<ogra_> ..
<skaet> :)
<skaet> any FF exceptions on the horizon?
<ogra_> not that i know of atm
<ogra_> but that doesnt mean much :P
<skaet> okie.   thanks!
<ogra_> ..
<skaet> [TOPIC] Linaro team Q&A - fabo
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Linaro team Q&A - fabo
<skaet> hmm... will move on.
<skaet> [TOPIC] Desktop Team Q&A - seb128
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Desktop Team Q&A - seb128
<seb128> [LINK] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-February/000824.html
<seb128> New compiz will be uploaded RSN (Didier has a first version being tested in his ppa)
<seb128> There is also a new unity planned for next week
<seb128> otherwise we are mostly on track to land features on time
<seb128> questions?
<seb128> ..
<seb128> RSN == monday most likely (if w.e ppa testing is good)
<skaet> Thanks seb128!
 * skaet likes earlier in the week the better.  :)
<skaet> [TOPIC] Unity Framework Team Q&A - dbarth
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Unity Framework Team Q&A - dbarth
<dbarth> hi
<skaet> :)
<dbarth> status report at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/ReleaseStatus
<dbarth> ie, what seb128 just said
<dbarth> +
<dbarth> the HUD is landed
<dbarth> and the integrated menu mode is in 3D as well
<dbarth> but not 2D, we'll need an FFE for it most probably
<seb128> dbarth, the compiz and indicator-appmenu parts for integrated menu landed? where?
<dbarth> this is a "big" bug fix, looking more like a last feature in fact
<seb128> dbarth, the compiz version for monday doesn't have them...
<Cimi> indeed, afaics unity doesn't have them too now
<Cimi> next week?
<dbarth> well, i'm told it's in 3d at least, but then the FFE may be bigger :/
<skaet> How soon after FF is the 2D likely to land (ie. before Beta 1 or not?)
<dbarth> ..
<skaet> Thanks dbarth.  :)
<dbarth> 2D was close to having it, ie for Thursday
<dbarth> but we'd rather freeze earliy and deliver something solid
<skaet> Thanks.  Appreciate the solid.   :)
<seb128> didrocks says that the local menu should be integrated in compiz after the monday release
<seb128> so I guess that's going to be a second compiz following up after the monday one
<Cimi> makes sense
<skaet> Thanks seb128, dbarth - that seems reasonable.
<skaet> [TOPIC] Unity Services and Settings Team  Q&A - Cimi
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Unity Services and Settings Team  Q&A - Cimi
<Cimi> #link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-February/000823.html
<Cimi> I think it's mostly in the mail, general work in stabilizing and bugfixing indicators
<Cimi> work on indicator printers
<Cimi> improvements on the touch support
<Cimi> any question?
<Cimi> ..
<skaet> Thanks Cimi!   Any FF exceptions being contemplated?
<Cimi> skaet, not at the moment
<Cimi> of course let's see local integrated menus and HUD
<Cimi> when they will land
<Cimi> all fine? cool
<skaet> will follow up a bit more offline then.  :)
<Cimi> ahah :)
<skaet> [TOPIC] Kubuntu Team Q&A - ScottK or apachelogger
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Kubuntu Team Q&A - ScottK or apachelogger
<apachelogger> haven't done anything much useful.... still to be done before FF: telepathy (mostly finished), rekonq (pending packaging), owncloud, oxygen-gtk3 (waiting on a way to set GTK3 theme from KDE envrionment without messing up the setting for gtk using envrionments, which turns out to be a major pain as GTK3 failed to consider xdesktop setups entirely)
<apachelogger> questions?
<skaet> Thanks apachelogger!   Any FFE's looking necessary?
<apachelogger> not at this point, unless the GTK3 stuff gets further delayed
<skaet> ok,  thanks.  :)
<skaet> [TOPIC] Edubuntu Team Q&A - stgraber or highvoltage
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Edubuntu Team Q&A - stgraber or highvoltage
<stgraber> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-February/000812.html
<stgraber> highvoltage: anything I forgot? ^
<stgraber> ..
<stgraber> oh, questions?
<stgraber> ..
<skaet> Thanks stgraber!  :)
<skaet> same question for you here,  any FFE's on the horizon?
<stgraber> nope
<skaet> coolio.  :)
<skaet> [TOPIC] Xubuntu Team Q&A - madnick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Xubuntu Team Q&A - madnick
 * skaet looks around for someone else from Xubuntu if madnick's not around?
<skaet> hmm... not seeking ScottL/scott-work in the channel today either,  skipping Ubuntu-Studio too.
<skaet> [TOPIC] Lubuntu Team Q&A - gilir
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lubuntu Team Q&A - gilir
<gilir> hi :)
<skaet> :)
<gilir> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-February/000818.html
<gilir> just to add that alternate installation is actually working
<gilir> still testing but I'm sure it's a mess in lubuntu seed
<gilir> ..
<skaet> Thanks gilir!   good to hear its working now.
<skaet> any FFE's looking likely?  or are you all set now for the release?
<gilir> I should be able to upload all packages before FF
<skaet> great.  :)
<skaet> [TOPIC] MOTU Team Q&A - tumbleweed or Laney
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: MOTU Team Q&A - tumbleweed or Laney
<skaet> or ScottK?
<ScottK> Dunno.  I haven't been following things very closely this week.
<Laney> Err, I wasn't prepared for this
<Laney> But (a) I am considering a GHC transition along with iulian
<Laney> (b) I recently got concerned about uninstallable packages so will be calling for help in fixing those sooni
<Laney> ..
<skaet> Thanks for the update Laney.  Yeah, I was also noticing we still have a few FTBFS...  be nice to get them cleaned up before the release, indeed.
<Laney> that too
 * Laney is off to Wales now, tara
<skaet> [TOPIC] 10.04.4
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: 10.04.4
<skaet> Just a reminder we'll also be releasing 10.04.4 next week,  as well as feature freeze going on.    Daviey will be coordinating getting the images polished if you have questions.
<skaet> (and I'll be involved too.... ;) )
<skaet> ..
<skaet> [TOPIC] Any other business, comments,  questions?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Any other business, comments,  questions?
 * MrChrisDruif just wants to thank everyone for their hard work
<MrChrisDruif> Good work team!
<skaet> Thanks MrChrisDruif.  :)   and I very much agree.  :D
 * skaet looks around not seeing any o/...s
<skaet> Thanks mlegris, jibel, jdstrand, ogaswara, stgraber, arosales, ogra_, NCommander, seb128, dbarth, Cimi, apachelogger, gilir, Laney, ScottK
<skaet> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Feb 10 16:53:53 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-10-16.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-10-16.01.html
<stgraber> thanks!
<ogra_> thanks skaet !
<jdstrand> thanks!
<jibel> thanks skaet !
<seb128> thanks skaet
<arosales> skaet: Thanks for moderating :-)
<skaet> :)
<MrChrisDruif> Hurray, first comment in the...what meeting was it actually? Desktop?
<skaet> MrChrisDruif, it was the weekly release meeting.  ;)
<MrChrisDruif> skaet; Yeah, I looked it up in my agenda (which syncs with The Fridge)
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-02-04
<mdeslaur> \o
<jdstrand> hi!
<tyhicks> hello
<jdstrand> wasn't setup yet to use the
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Announcements
<jdstrand> Chad Miller (chad) provided updates for lucid-quantal for chromium-browser (LP: #1099075)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1099075 in chromium-browser (Ubuntu Raring) "new upstream release: 24.0.1312.56" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1099075
<jdstrand> there is still some work to do for armhf to compile, but i386 and amd64 for lucid-raring are now caught up with upstream :)
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I'm on triage this week
<jdstrand> there is a firefox regression fix that is going out this week
<jdstrand> I'm working on an embargoed issue
<jdstrand> I've got another embargoed issue I'm working on
<jdstrand> if I have time, I might look at the lxc mir this week
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm on community this week
<mdeslaur> I have a couple of pending updates to try and figure out how to test
<mdeslaur> (jquery and xserver-xorg-video-qxl)
<mdeslaur> and will continue going down the CVE list
<mdeslaur> that's pretty much it
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: xserver-xorg-video-qxl - ah, that is for spice, right?
<mdeslaur> yeah, it's the spice xorg driver
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up
<jdstrand> I wonder if that would help us with our unity 3d stuff
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: no
<jdstrand> hmm
<jdstrand> someone else said it might
<mdeslaur> eventually, I believe they are planning on writing a 3d enabled driver
<mdeslaur> but, not currently
<jdstrand> plus, looking at the spice server MIR last week, I thought it plausible since spice is supposed to use the best 'hardware'
<jdstrand> ie, maybe the guest, maybe the host, but whatever. you know more than I at this point
<mdeslaur> it.s more efficient than vnc, but it's not 3d
<jdstrand> k
<jdstrand> sbeattie: sorry, please go ahead
<sbeattie> no worries
<sbeattie> I'm working on apparmor this week
<sbeattie> focusing on my blueprint work items
<sbeattie> I also need to finish up my objectives rejiggering
<sbeattie> that's pretty much it for me.
<sbeattie> tyhicks: poke
<tyhicks> My week looks similar to last week
<tyhicks> Embargoed issue, AppArmor policy kernel interface, need to finish testing some changes to the AppArmor D-Bus mediation patches that I made last week and upload the new dbus package to dbus-dev PPA
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> I am plugging away on apparmor work items
<jjohansen> instead of working on env var filtering, we have switched priorities a little bit I am going to be working on socket labeling so we can have get_peercon working and fix that issue in the dbus patches
<jjohansen> oh and I suppose I need to finish up rebasing the compat patches on top of the base labeling/stacking patches today. So I can push an alpha2 kernel into the ppa and give sarnold something more to review
<tyhicks> oh nice
<jjohansen> thats it from /me sarnold
<sarnold> I'm going to be working on workitems and objectives this week
<sarnold> vde2 is waiting a main inclusion request audit, it'd be fun to work on that too, we'll see how jdstrand's teaching-time works out :)
<jjohansen> sarnold will be reviewing patches this week too :)
<sarnold> uh oh :)
<sarnold> apparently' I'm also reviewing patches this week :)
<sbeattie> hehe
<sarnold> jdstrand: back to you :)
<jdstrand> yes, that patch review should take priority :)
<jdstrand> (unless asked otherwise)
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/firebird2.5.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/sleuthkit.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/phpldapadmin.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/nusoap.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libsocialweb.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
<jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, tyhicks, jjohansen, sarnold: thanks!
<tyhicks> thanks
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
<sarnold> thanks jdstrand :)
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks!
<jjohansen> thanks jdstrand
<cjwatson> kees,mdz,soren,stgraber: TB meeting in <10?
<stgraber> yep, I'll be there
 * pitti waves hello
<smoser> o/
<cjwatson> ah, soren sent apologies
 * cjwatson does last-minute listadmin
<cjwatson> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Feb  4 21:00:05 2013 UTC.  The chair is cjwatson. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<stgraber> yeah, he then forwarded the e-mail with the right address
<cjwatson> Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
<cjwatson> Who's here?
<kees> \o
<stgraber> o/
<smoser> o/
<pitti> me too
 * smoser is standing in for roaksoax
<cjwatson> Thanks.  Will just wait a minute for any latecomers ...
<pitti> I met mdz at FOSDEM yesterday, he's presumably still travelling
<cjwatson> Ah, yes, that would make sense
<cjwatson> #topic Action review
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Action review
<cjwatson> None that I can see from the last minutes
<cjwatson> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2013-January/001007.html
<cjwatson> #topic MAAS SRU
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: MAAS SRU
<cjwatson> I followed up by mail a few minutes ago
<pitti> FWIW, I found slangasek's reply quite on-the-spot
<cjwatson> Me too.  I understand that Steve's recommendations are already being implemented?
<cjwatson> (In fact, perhaps we should record the general principles he outlined somewhere more permanent)
<smoser> cjwatson, hm... could you forward me your response? archive is not udpated, an di'm not subscribed.
<pitti> I agree with bundling newer versions and new packages into the new maas
 * kees nods
<cjwatson> smoser: It wasn't anything interesting, just concurrence with Steve and otherwise general approval
<smoser> yeah, we're perfectly fine to package the bits inside maas.
<pitti> the three django fixes should be properly SRUed, though (at least at first look)
<smoser> pitti, we're open to that.
<cjwatson> I notice that ScottK has rejected bug 1081391 and bug 1081388 from the SRU queue
<ubottu> bug 1081391 in python-django (Ubuntu) "[SRU] Backport GenericIPAddressfield from 1.4" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1081391
<ubottu> bug 1081388 in python-django (Ubuntu) "[SRU] Backport prefetch_related from 1.4" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1081388
<smoser> ScottK raised concern with some of the django changes, suggesting that furthre review (done here) was necessary. so surely he'd be OK  with that.
<stgraber> I'm also happy with the proposal with slangasek's proposed changes. Personally I'd tend to prefer having yui3 and python-tx-tftp as new sources rather than bundled in, but I'm not an SRU team member and I can live with those sources being bundled.
<stgraber> (I have a vague interest in that new tftp module for python which I may want to use for some projects I'm involved with, and having it in the archive for 12.04 would be convenient. I don't care much about yui3 though.)
<cjwatson> I find it difficult to disagree with his review on the face of it.  Is it possible to work around the django problems in maas?
<pitti> bundling them exposes them less to other "unintended"/unsupported usage, though
<cjwatson> (And it is *definitely* true that the test cases in those bugs were incomplete.)
<cjwatson> At the very least they'd need much more regression testing.
<stgraber> pitti: right, the main advantage of just bundling them is that they will be able to push newer features or API changes to those in future SRUs. Which we wouldn't allow if those were individual sources.
<stgraber> pitti: but if it's not likely to happen with those packages (and it doesn't appear it's), I'd prefer to have separate sources.
<smoser> stgraber, i think i personally prefer slangasek's suggestion of bundling them in.
<cjwatson> I'm not sure I know enough about django to be able to offer a confident review.  It would be nice if somebody non-maas-related who knew django well could investigate.
<pitti> stgraber: I'd rather minimize the exposure of new packages, but I don't have a solid objection against introducing them as NEW ones, so I'm fine with letting the server team decide about that
 * kees agrees with pitti
<cjwatson> If they really are non-invasive then it probably isn't worth the hassle of trying to move the fix around; but I would like to have an unbiased assessment of that.
<cjwatson> stgraber: I'd rather bundle too.
<smoser> cjwatson, i'd have to look further to see which of the django changes are required.
<stgraber> ok ;) As I said, I don't mind very much, I just have a vague interest in the tftp bit and it'd have the nice advantage of saving me an upload to my PPA, but that's about the extent of how much I care ;)
<slangasek> the maas package currently in precise depends on the external python-django package; so switching it to bundle now would seem to be a bit of a regression on that score
<cjwatson> Yes, I'm not currently offering an opinion on bundling or otherwise of django
<cjwatson> I'd like to have the smallest change with lowest risk; it's not clear at this point where that lives
<slangasek> while the python-django changes don't meet the letter of the SRU policy as ScottK says, it's not a wholesale backport or anything... I think the django SRU approach makes sense
<cjwatson> And for the record I think the "my way or the highway" approach evidenced in bug 1081392 is entirely inappropriate for a technical discussion in a bug report.
<ubottu> bug 1081392 in python-django (Ubuntu Precise) "[SRU] Include upstream fix for bug 15496" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1081392
<cjwatson> (from the maas team)
<smoser> clearly that could have gone better. i dont think anyone would disagree.
<cjwatson> It may be the right thing to do, but let's try reasoning rather than assertion :-)
<slangasek> if the TB generally feels it's warranted to override the SRU policy here, I'm happy to dig into the details of the python-django SRU and assess it (as I have some familiarity with django)
<smoser> i can make sure the maas team offers help / guidance to slangasek there.
<pitti> my gut feeling is that these sound small enough to warrant an SRU exception, but it hasn't been made clear how these can be regression-tested
<cjwatson> I would like to have some notion of how we can regression-test this for other django users
<pitti> i. e. with prominent python-django rdepends
<kees> agreed. I only know the simplest of django uses, and I don't think that's sufficient.
<pitti> and it would be great if these two SRU bugs could get patches attached for review
<slangasek> pitti: I believe, but have not yet verified, that the new features don't change the behavior of existing code
<pitti> it's always easier to judge regression potential by looking at what actually changd
<slangasek> thats my recollection of the previous discussion around that SRU
<pitti> e. g. if that just adds a new function to the API, it'd be harmless
<pitti> which may very well be the case here
<stgraber> At least the addition of GenericIPAddressfield sounds to me like it could be done in the maas code without requiring shipping a whole copy of django, so maybe that's another way to get the feature without having to SRU new features into a stable release?
<cjwatson> Has GenericIPAddressField been security-reviewed (this is on a security boundary, right?)?  Does it handle database migration?
<stgraber> I'm not terribly familiar with Django, but it sounds like this is just a convenience type which ends up being mapped to an int in the DB, so surely this can be done without patching the core?
 * ScottK mostly felt django was a TB decision, not just ubuntu-sru.
<ScottK> If you're happy, I'm happy.
<cjwatson> I could see prefetch being suitable - it would improve perf for other users, presumably - but it's a fairly complex change I can't review
<smoser> stgraber, you're probably correct. i'm sure we can find some way to get the same functionality inside of maas.
 * pitti feels he has too little data to decide whether he should be scared or happy
<cjwatson> If it's had qualified code review and has some kind of plan for regression-testing then I'd be OK with the prefetch change
<smoser> the ipv6 code there, just ends up taking the same path as other suggested chaanges.
<smoser> as to whether it should be shoved inside maas (and not available to others) or incorporated into sru for others to benefit.
<cjwatson> I guess I'm more or less agnostic about GenericIPAddressField
<cjwatson> "not available to others" shouldn't be a consideration we apply in SRUs, though
<cjwatson> Least-risk is pretty much an overriding criterion
<smoser> fair
<cjwatson> Same logic as yui3/raphael
<stgraber> right, prefetch seems way harder to keep inside maas, so I think this one may be fine for an exception provided sufficient testing and guarantee it won't affect existing code (that it's just an addition that only maas will use as far as packaged software goes)
<smoser> right. which is what i was trying to say.
<cjwatson> Any more comments?  I'd be happy to hand off detailed review to slangasek's judgement
<smoser> only comment is that everyone involved is aware that this is not "traditional SRU"
<smoser> the overriding interst is in getting something useful to ubuntu users to live on 12.04.
<cjwatson> ScottK: FWIW (re 1081392) if you *wanted* to push for a wholesale update of owncloud on the basis that the old version is completely useless, I don't know that I'd be completely opposed; I actually wondered why nobody was doing that
<ScottK> It would have required backporting a bunch of other packages.
<kees> apologies, I have to run away early...
<ScottK> If it was just owncloud, that's the direction we'd have gone.
<cjwatson> maas was pretty immature in precise, which was a problem in itself at the time.  Indeed, it's not a traditional SRU; but I can see the value in it.
<cjwatson> ScottK: Ah, fair enough
<stgraber> ScottK: and I assume those are big/complex enough that you couldn't get away with the same bundling game as MAAS?
<cjwatson> kees: thanks
<smoser> the maas and ubuntu server teams will do whatever is necessary to do this right.
<stgraber> anyway, for the actual discussion topic, I'm happy having this be a one-off thing for MAAS and I trust ~ubuntu-sru to enforce the rigorous testing this will require (especially for the django bits), so I'm happy having slangasek and the ubuntu-sru team do the review and have this move along
<pitti> yeah, I agree for MAAS itself; that's sufficiently a "leaf" package, and the rationale makes sense to me for an LTS
<cjwatson> Yep.  Do we need a vote (is there any dissent), or shall we carry this by acclamation?
<cjwatson> kees sounded in general agreement
<pitti> to me it seems we by and large agree; we all want to see a regression test plan for django and maas itself, and bundle the others
<stgraber> I don't think I heard anyone being explicitly against it, we're really just discussing some of the implementation details which I'm sure the SRU team can take care of ;)
<cjwatson> OK, let's move on then; I'll distil this into the minutes
<smoser> thanks all.
<pitti> ScottK: I want to say thanks for following the proper process here
<ScottK> pitti: Thanks.
<cjwatson> I see nothing new on the list
<cjwatson> And no open bugs
<cjwatson> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<pitti> a quick FYI, no further responses to the brainstorm reviews
<cjwatson> Oh, hell, I haven't done mine yet
 * cjwatson sticks that on kanban in an attempt to remember
<pitti> I'll send a followup reminder email
<cjwatson> also:
<cjwatson> #action cjwatson to amend SRU/MRE documentation to reflect slangasek's comments about bundling
<meetingology> ACTION: cjwatson to amend SRU/MRE documentation to reflect slangasek's comments about bundling
<cjwatson> if that's OK with everyone
<pitti> oh, thanks
<stgraber> yep, thanks
<cjwatson> going once
<cjwatson> going twice
<cjwatson> sold to the developer in the orange hat
<cjwatson> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Feb  4 21:35:44 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-02-04-21.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-02-04-21.00.html
<cjwatson> I'll write up minutes when evening time permits
<pitti> thanks everyone
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-02-05
<jamespage> o/
<smb> now
<smoser> o./
<jamespage> right-oh
<jamespage> lets get started
<jamespage> #startmeeting Ubuntu Server Team Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Feb  5 16:01:00 2013 UTC.  The chair is jamespage. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:
<jamespage> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<jamespage> utlemming to push A2 cloud image forwards
<jamespage> utlemming: ?
<jamespage> hmm OK - lets swing back to that one
<utlemming> yes, I'll be pushign that
<utlemming> there on track
<jamespage> utlemming: +1 great
<jamespage> #topic Raring Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Raring Development
<jamespage> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RaringRingtail/ReleaseSchedule
<jamespage> just for reference
<jamespage> A2 is due on the 14th
<jamespage> Daviey: did we agree todo A2 iso images as well?
<smoser> whee!
<Daviey> jamespage: not yet
<smoser> Daviey, how about a compromise on that....
<jamespage> well it feels like a pertinent moment to discuss that right now
<Daviey> can we just wait out for now?
<smoser> surely we can make a concerted effort on iso test in coordination with next tuesday.
<smoser> and just not label anything "alpha 2".
<Daviey> That is the direction we are heading, but there is still some ongoing planning
<smoser> that seems like a sane compromise to me.
<smoser> k.
<jamespage> right-oh - I guess thats an action we can take as a team without committing to a full A2
<jamespage> next
<jamespage> #subtopic Release Bugs
<jamespage> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-r-tracking-bug-tasks.html#server
<jamespage> looks like hallyn has a few libvirt/qemu/kvm/lxc bugs spinning
<hallyn> do ?
<jamespage> hallyn: hrm bug 1113821
<ubottu> bug 1113821 in libvirt (Ubuntu Raring) "libvirt-bin deletes /etc/dnsmasq.d/libvirt-bin on upgrade" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1113821
<hallyn> jamespage: stgraber is trying a symlink approach to fix that
<hallyn> for the udev one, i need to re-sync with pitti on that
<jamespage> hallyn: ack
<jamespage> thats bug 1092715 for reference
<ubottu> bug 1092715 in qemu-kvm (Ubuntu Raring) "udevadm trigger --action=change not working in quantal and raring" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1092715
<hallyn> right really is followed in bug 1103022
<ubottu> bug 1103022 in udev (Ubuntu) "70-udev-acl.rules needs to put g+rw on /dev/kvm" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1103022
<jamespage> this list still feels incomplete; hopefully I'll have a bit of time in the next 7 days to try to get it sorted
<jamespage> #subtopic Blueprints
<jamespage> #link http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-raring/group/topic-raring-servercloud-overview.html
<jamespage> looks like most people managed to have a swing through their BP's since last week
<jamespage> I'm not going to call out any specific BP's this week; does anyone else have any specific BP related items they wanted to raise?
<jamespage> OK - moving on
<jamespage> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Ubuntu Server Team Events
<jamespage> anyone going anywhere nice in the next few weeks?
<arosales> scale11x
<arosales> coming up
<jamespage> arosales: who's attending?
<arosales> jcastro and m_3
<arosales> fosdem went well?
<jamespage> marvellous
<jamespage> arosales: yeah - it rocked as normal
<arosales> btw, scale11x is feb 22-24 (http://www.socallinuxexpo.org/scale11x/)
<jamespage> far to much to hear about tho :-)
<hallyn> plumbers coming up
<hallyn> well, in september
<arosales> cool to hear about fosdem
<jamespage> hallyn: golly - thats advanced notice!
<hallyn> jamespage: heh, i like to be prepared.
<jamespage> OK; so if there is no other events...
<jamespage> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<jamespage> hggdh: around?
<jamespage> nope - guess not - how about plars?
 * jamespage likes to put folk on the spot but that's not working today :-(
<jamespage> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<smb> There were a few new Xen CVEs released just today
<smb> Hm, otherwise fighting with one machine with "interesting" mtrr setup...
<smb> Any questions for me?
<smb> ..
<jamespage> smb: I think you are off the hook this week...
<jamespage> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
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<rbasak> Nothing new to report. Any questions for me?
<jamespage> sounds like no to me
<jamespage> #topic Open Discussion
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<Daviey> Nothing here, thanks
<jamespage> anyone else?
<jamespage> for anything else?
<jamespage> OK
<jamespage> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
<jamespage> 12th Feb @1600 UTC in #ubuntu-meeting
<Daviey> shortest meeting yet.
<jamespage> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Feb  5 16:23:08 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-02-05-16.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-02-05-16.01.html
<rbasak> Thanks jamespage!
<arosales> jamespage: thanks for chairing :-)
<jamespage> cheerio all
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Feb  5 17:00:06 2013 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/raring
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<bjf> o/
<rtg_> o/
<herton> o/
<kamal> o/
<henrix> o/
<ppisati> o/
<sforshee> o/
<apw> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> R/master: work continues on the arm multiplatform kernel - right now i'm
<ppisati> tracking down a "BUG: scheduling while atomic" (actually an alignment problem -
<ogra> how conform
<ppisati> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1613275/) that only happens on omap4, seems to be ipv6
<ppisati> related and seems to be triggered by our articulated kernel configuration.
<ppisati> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> I'll post updates for ogasawara.
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/~canonical-kernel-distro-team/+upcomingwork
<jsalisbury> || apw         || hardware-r-kernel-config-review       || 6 work items ||
<jsalisbury> ||             || hardware-r-delta-review               || 3 work items ||
<jsalisbury> || ppisati     || hardware-r-kernel-config-review       || 1 work item  ||
<jsalisbury> ||             || hardware-r-kernel-version-and-flavors || 2 work items ||
<jsalisbury> ||             || hardware-r-delta-review               || 1 work item  ||
<jsalisbury> || rtg         || hardware-r-delta-review               || 1 work item  ||
<jsalisbury> || smb         || hardware-r-kernel-misc                || 2 work items ||
<jsalisbury> We were able to clean up quite a few work items last week and are now
<jsalisbury> well below the trend line for our overall burn down chart.  Thanks to
<jsalisbury> everyone who closed out items.
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Raring Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Raring Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<jsalisbury> We have rebased the Raring kernel to the latest v3.8-rc6 upstream
<jsalisbury> kernel and uploaded.  We've also pulled our first set of patches for arm
<jsalisbury> multiplatform support \o/.
<jsalisbury> Also just a small reminder, the 12.04.2 point release is nearing.  If
<jsalisbury> anyone has free cycles and is able to test, please do so.
<jsalisbury> Important upcoming dates:
<jsalisbury>  * Raring:
<jsalisbury>   * Mon Feb 18 - 13.04 Month 4 Milestone (~2 weeks)
<jsalisbury>  * Precise:
<jsalisbury>   * Thu Feb 14 - 12.04.2 Release (~1 week)
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's (henrix)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's (henrix)
<henrix> Currently we have 32 CVEs on our radar, with 3 CVEs added and 4 CVE retired this week.
<henrix> See the CVE matrix for the current list:
<henrix> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<henrix> Overall the backlog has decreased slightly this week:
<henrix> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/status/cve-metrics.txt
<henrix> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/CVE-linux.txt
<henrix> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Quantal/Precise/Oneiric/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/herton/henrix)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Quantal/Precise/Oneiric/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/herton/henrix)
<henrix> Here is the status for the main kernels, until today (February 05):
<henrix>  * Hardy - Nothing in this cycle
<henrix>  * Lucid - Nothing in this cycle
<henrix>  * Oneiric - In Preparation; 3 CVEs; 4 upstream stable release(s); (154 commits)
<henrix>  * Precise - In Preparation; 0 CVEs; 2 upstream stable release(s); (222 commits)
<henrix>  * Quantal - In Preparation; 0 CVEs; 2 upstream stable release(s); (368 commits)
<henrix> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<henrix>  * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<henrix> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<henrix>  * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<henrix> Future stable cadence cycles:
<henrix>  * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RaringRingtail/ReleaseInterlock
<henrix> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Feb  5 17:04:52 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-02-05-17.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-02-05-17.00.html
<kamal> thanks jsalisbury
<bjf> close
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-02-06
<cprofitt> hello everyone
<cprofitt> we will begin the Ubuntu Friendly meeting in roughly two minutes
<SergioMeneses> hi all!
<cprofitt> #startmeeting ubuntu-friendly
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Feb  6 01:00:17 2013 UTC.  The chair is cprofitt. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
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* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-friendly Meeting | Current topic:
<cprofitt> #meetingtopic welcome back
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<cprofitt> hello all -- and welcome to the Ubuntu Friendly meeting
<cprofitt> can everyone that is here for the meeting just let me know you are in the room
<SergioMeneses> o/
<phillw> o/
<cprofitt> thanks for coming everyone
<cprofitt> our agenda is:
<pleia2> o/
<cprofitt> hexr, wiki cleanup, how to improve parts of the Ubuntu Friendly system
<cprofitt> your questions and any advice/ideas you all have
<cprofitt> baloons are you here?
<SergioMeneses> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuFriendly/Meetings
<cprofitt> alright... I might have baloons take over if he comes in, but let me tell you a bit about hexr
<cprofitt> #meetingtopic hexr
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | hexr Meeting | Current topic:
<cprofitt> #link https://launchpad.net/hexr
<cprofitt> hexr, from my understanding, will potentially make use of the same data Ubuntu Friendly does, but it will do so to see what harware components have been tested
<cprofitt> so it will seek to find out of a specific Nvidia card has been tested or a specific wireless card
<cprofitt> and not look at systems, but components
<cprofitt> #link https://launchpad.net/~hexr-dev/+members#active
<cprofitt> the developers are listed on that page
<cprofitt> I think knowing that could help Ubuntu Friendly add some more functionality to the site -- where people might be able to sort systems based on a desired video card or wireless card...
<cprofitt> for now it is just something for us to know as we move forward
<cprofitt> #topic wiki clean up
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | hexr Meeting | Current topic:  wiki clean up
<cprofitt> how many of you have had time to look at the wiki page for UF?
<cprofitt> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuFriendly/
<cprofitt> would anyone  be willing to take on reviewing the pages to ensure that they are up-to-date?
<SergioMeneses> cprofitt, we can put some icons
<SergioMeneses> cprofitt, I can do it
<cprofitt> #action SergioMeneses will review the Ubuntu Friendly wiki
<meetingology> ACTION: SergioMeneses will review the Ubuntu Friendly wiki
<cprofitt> thanks SergioMeneses
<cprofitt> please feel free to ask for help from others as you do that
<cprofitt> if anyone else knows of pages that need updates please let SergioMeneses or me know
<SergioMeneses> cprofitt, ok
<chilicuil> ok =)
<cprofitt> #topic improvements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | hexr Meeting | Current topic:  improvements
<cprofitt> I know from personal experience we have some things to improve moving forward
<cprofitt> phillw: did you want to discuss some of the thoughts you had?
<cprofitt> anyone else?
<cprofitt> #subtopic submissions
<phillw> cprofitt: just to mention that you and laptop team are quite similar and I hope there is a good flow of informations between you both :)
<cprofitt> phillw: I would hope so as well.
<cprofitt> One of the things that got me involved was submissions
<cprofitt> right now it is my understanding that submissions are not getting in to UF
<cprofitt> but I am not sure why that is
<pleia2> phillw: hm, I thought the laptop testing team was for testing Ubuntu on laptops for upcoming releases, not reporting on how well supported laptops are in current releases
<SergioMeneses> Im totally agree with pleia2,
<phillw> pleia2: ergo, one a release is out, that information is available to what is then the 'current' release?
<phillw> *once*
<cprofitt> I would like to see two things done to improve in regards to submissions
<pleia2> phillw: but it would be results for when it was in development, so maybe the graphics card for that one laptop finally did end up working once the release happened, the results would be from when it wasn't working :\
<pleia2> for example
<phillw> i see, I'll have a chat with the laptop team :)
<cprofitt> pleia2: I agree.. the results from pre-release could would not be invluded in Ubuntu Friendly
<pleia2> they're both valueable and needed projects, for sure, I just thing they provide different data to different audiences
<pleia2> s/thing/think
<cprofitt> but the laptop testing team could, upon release, be a group of people who ran the tests for UF
<pleia2> cprofitt: indeed!
<cprofitt> and from my understanding the database we are pulling from might actually be the same -- but with different criteria for what information is included
<cprofitt> and also differences in how it gets displayed
<pleia2> it makes sense for both projects to test the same things
<cprofitt> but I would need one of the developers to give me more information on that
<cprofitt> I would like to see two things done to improve in regards to submissions
<cprofitt> 1.  some system be put in place to make it easy for those submitting results to know that the results were processed
<cprofitt> if the result was invalid - let them know why
<cprofitt> as a person who has submitted results and never saw my results in UF I know how that can cause someone to lose interest in contributing
<pleia2> +1
<cprofitt> 2.  I would also want to have a group of people that could look at invalid results to ensure that how the data is being processed is accurate -- that the automated system is not makring valid results as invalid
<cprofitt> this is particularly important as hardware changes...
<cprofitt> failure to test a card reader when there is no such device present should not invalidate results
<cprofitt> any other comments in regards to submissions?
<cprofitt> #subtopic checkbox
<cprofitt> that brings me to one more idea
<cprofitt> this one is not mine, but one that has been discussed in the qa channel
<cprofitt> there may be a need to refine checkbox a bit to allow for a 'simple' test
<cprofitt> or in the case of hexr a test of specific hardware
<cprofitt> the simple test would be an abbreviated test to make sure that basic things like wireless work etc.
<cprofitt> I also had cases when I tested where the automated test 'failed' itself, but I knew the device was working
<cprofitt> I think there should be some sort of mechanism for making a note of that issue built in to checkbox so that changes can be addressed with those issues
<cprofitt> having devices 'fail' a test when they are actually working undercuts people's faith in the process and the results.
<cprofitt> any thoughts in that area?
<roadmr> o/
<cprofitt> yes, roadmr
<roadmr> hello! first, if an automated test fails when the device is working, that means a bug that we'd like to get fixed
<roadmr> I understand this adds a lot of friction to things, so maybe thinking of ways to make this more effortless may be worthwhile
 * cprofitt nods
<roadmr> second, the automated tests are in general more reliable but they are also quite valuable in high-volume environments
<roadmr> if we assume that people can be trusted, we can potentially use manual test cases instead of automated ones that are most unreliable
<roadmr> even so, it would be good to collect some information that can be automatically analyzed, maybe server-side
<roadmr> this way we can potentially re-score a submission given the raw data, even after-the-fact
<pleia2> admittedly there is some trust to an extent already in the testing (you can hear a sound, etc)
<cprofitt> I too, would prefer to get the automated tests working... I think human interaction always introduces some potential for error
<roadmr> this would however introduce a "we're collecting stuff and sending it up to canonical" factor that some people don't like
<cprofitt> I do like rescoring a submission after the fact
<roadmr> so this is an area for improvement but we always have the option of doing this manually
<cprofitt> roadmr: in this case I think the 'collecting data' part is voluntary
<cprofitt> at least with checkbox
<roadmr> cprofitt: yes, well in order to determine what's going on, some extensive logs would need to be collected
 * cprofitt nods
<roadmr> cprofitt: but keeping the user in control would be the best
<roadmr> pleia2: hehe, we sought to remove the human factor from that by adding an automated audio_test :) so the computer listens to itself
<cprofitt> could that be an optional part of checkbox -- that a user would opt-in to collecting additional data?
<roadmr> anyway, those are my ideas on this
<pleia2> roadmr: does it work? I guess I haven't run it in a bit :)
<cprofitt> I appreciate the feedback and information roadmr
<roadmr> cprofitt: sure, with the current checkbox architecture it feels a bit complex to do, but we can always change that, we should bend the tool to the needs, not the other way around
<roadmr> pleia2: as long as you have a microphone and speakers, it works and it's very reliable
<pleia2> nice
<cprofitt> roadmr: +1 we want to make it easy for people to collect data for this type of use -- improving user experience
<cprofitt> roadmr: do you have any insight as to why results are not getting included in to Ubuntu Friendly or is that outside of your scope?
<roadmr> cprofitt: I have a pretty good idea why, yes
<cprofitt> could you go a bit in to that for us?
<roadmr> cprofitt: two components are involved in this, the first is checkbox, which runs the tests, assembles a report and pushes that to launchpad
<roadmr> the second is the UF website/application, which pulls the reports (submissions) from launchpad and adds the results to the friendly database (what you see in the website) - does the scoring, aggregation and such
<roadmr> for a submission to appear at all, it needs to contain (and pass) all tests identified as "core"
<roadmr> the basics for a computer to be usable, if any core tests are failed the submission will not appear in UF
<roadmr> if it passes the "core" tests, it gets 3 stars, and any additional tests it passes increase its rating, up to 5 stars
<roadmr> a 5-star rating means that all the components we test work perfectly
<roadmr> so why would a submission not appear?
<roadmr> some of the core tests are automated, and checkbox is not very good at 1) telling you one of them failed, and 2) letting you rerun/amend the results
<roadmr> checkbox itself has no idea of core tests, so it can't tell you "hey, your card reader didn't work and that means you won't make it into UF - please rerun this before submitting"
<cprofitt> is there currenlty anyway for a person who has submitted the test to see their submissions on launchpad?
<roadmr> that's one reason, the second is that since the UF website needs some love, there may have been a bit of "drift" into the tests checkbox submits and performs, the UF site has not been updated as checkbox whitelists (sets of tests to run) change
<roadmr> those would be the two main reasons
<roadmr> cprofitt: there's a cryptic url that you an access to see your submissions, let me find it
<cprofitt> so, it sounds like the key is giving the user some feedback as to if their device failed a core test... and also allowing for them to resubmit
<roadmr> cprofitt: https://launchpad.net/~/+hwdb-submissions
<roadmr> cprofitt: yep, again, something that's a bit difficult to do with the current checkbox architecture which is very linear :( think of the difference between linear and non-linear video editing
<roadmr> in a sense, with checkbox we can only ffwd, rewind, and look at the results at the very end
 * cprofitt nods
<roadmr> with no/little chance of going back to a specific test.
<cprofitt> exactly...
<cprofitt> it is also my understanding there is no ability to 'pause' a test and come back and pick up where you left off
<roadmr> there is, but it's very awkward heheh
<cprofitt> roadmr: is there currently any team that reviews the failed submissions?
<roadmr> what you do basically is murder checkbox, when you restart it does its best to pick up where it left off
<roadmr> it gives you three choices: rerun the last test, skip to the next one (in case the last test outright crashed the system), or start anew
 * cprofitt nods
<roadmr> the message is quite terse and the choices are somewhat ambiguous, so most people are/will be confused by this
<roadmr> cprofitt: reviewing failed submissions, not really, no. It can be done but pretty much the only person who can and knows how to do it is jedimike, by looking at how the UF results importer processed a submission
<roadmr> he'd have more specifics on how to do it, but it's done on an ad-hoc basis
<cprofitt> roadmr: thanks
<roadmr> np :)
<cprofitt> I asked because I saw that as part of the launchpad team description
<cprofitt> does anyone else have any questions for roadmr?
<cprofitt> I would like to set an initial priority for the team moving forward
<cprofitt> I think that we have two high value items
<cprofitt> 1.  Improving the UF website process so that there is some feedback to the person who submitted the system as to the fact the results were processed but failed
<cprofitt> 2.  Documenting the current process - so others can understand it as we start to look at improving it
<cprofitt> are there any other items people see?
<cprofitt> roadmr: would you be willing to procude a flow chart of what you described that we could them use on the wiki?
<cprofitt> just a rough outline of how the process currently flows?
<roadmr> cprofitt: sure
<roadmr> cprofitt: there's some documentation (an outline plus more detailed links) here: https://friendly.ubuntu.com/what-is-ubuntu-friendly/
<cprofitt> #action roadmr will produce a flow chart of the current process
<meetingology> ACTION: roadmr will produce a flow chart of the current process
<cprofitt> #vote agree that improving feedback on submissions is important in moving foward
<meetingology> Please vote on: agree that improving feedback on submissions is important in moving foward
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<cprofitt> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cprofitt
<roadmr> +1 definitely heh
<meetingology> +1 definitely heh received from roadmr
<chilicuil> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from chilicuil
<SergioMeneses> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from SergioMeneses
<cprofitt> pleia2: ?
<cprofitt> phillw: ?
<phillw> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from phillw
<phillw> sorry wasnm't sure if i was to vote :)
<cprofitt> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: agree that improving feedback on submissions is important in moving foward
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<cprofitt> I think for now we should move towards that; after we get that feedback improved we need to look to make some improvements to checkbox as roadmr mentioned
<cprofitt> any other topics, questions or thoughts?
<roadmr> o/
<cprofitt> yes, roadmr
<SergioMeneses> when is our next meeting?
<roadmr> hehe, one thing that we *can* potentially do with current checkbox is make it submit directly to a (possibly updated) UF application, so feedback is quicker
<roadmr> this needs writing a "plugin" and an accompanying web application, so it would need some coordination
<cprofitt> +1 roadmr that should be explored
<roadmr> we're still on time to make that happen before Ubuntu Feature Freeze, but we'd have to start working soon
 * cprofitt nods
<roadmr> ideally we sould ask jedimike if there's a way to submit directly to the UF application, because we may not have a lot of manpower to come up with a new one
<roadmr> sould/should
<cprofitt> SergioMeneses: I would like us to meet again in two weeks -- I think to be fair to some of the UTC
<roadmr> that may be a quick way to reduce the decoupling between submission and actual result processing
<cprofitt> folks we should have the meeting earlier; though that would require a different person to chair the meeting
<SergioMeneses> perfect
<cprofitt> roadmr: I know jedimike has spoken to me about that so I will try to touch bases with him about that
<cprofitt> are any of you in the UTC 0/+1 TZ?
<phillw> 'im on utc
<cprofitt> alright... I will send a message to the list and see if I can get a person in that TZ to chair a meeting.
<roadmr> cprofitt: I'm EST (UTC-5)
<cprofitt> phillw: would you be willing to chair a meeting on the 19th?
<cprofitt> roadmr: I am on your TZ as well
<phillw> I can if no one steps forward :)
<SergioMeneses> Im UTC-5
<cprofitt> phillw: ok, I will send the request to the list and you will be the fall back
<cprofitt> #action next meeting February 19th UTC 17:00 - cprofitt will send a message to the list to get a chair
<meetingology> ACTION: next meeting February 19th UTC 17:00 - cprofitt will send a message to the list to get a chair
<phillw> what time on 19th are you thinking of?
<phillw> yeah, 1700 utc would be okay if no one steps forward.
<SergioMeneses> 17 utc
 * cprofitt nods
<cprofitt> yes, SergioMeneses so noon our time
<SergioMeneses> cprofitt, it's not problem for me
<cprofitt> thanks SergioMeneses phillw pleia2 chilicuil roadmr for attending. I think this has been very productive for an initial start
<cprofitt> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Feb  6 02:00:04 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-02-06-01.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-02-06-01.00.html
<pleia2> thanks for chairing :)
<phillw> thanks for chairing
<SergioMeneses> cprofitt, thanks to you
<chilicuil> I'm looking forward for helping out, I'll see you in the ml =)
<cprofitt> chilicuil: thanks
<cprofitt> thanks again everyone
<phillw> I'm off to bed! 2am here :)
<SergioMeneses> phillw, good night
<cprofitt> night phillw
 * slangasek waves
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Feb  6 16:02:03 2013 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jodh> o/
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh ev bdmurray slangasek ogra cjwatson xnox stokachu)
<slangasek> barry bdmurray ogra slangasek doko cjwatson stokachu ev xnox jodh stgraber
<barry> win!
<barry> various ue sprint tasks.  file debian bugs 699491 and 699498 (adding -OO to py{,3}compile).  more possibly to come there.  reviewed stokachu's pytz merge and eventually syncpackaged it (bug 1116418).  submitted branch for bug 1112496, with updates to come.  worked on py3 whoosh and reached out to debian maintainer.  various upstream pypi security discussions.
<ubottu> Debian bug 699491 in python-defaults "pycompile: Support -OO to suppress docstrings in .pyo files" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/699491
<ubottu> Debian bug 699498 in python3-defaults "python3-defaults: Support -OO to suppress docstrings in .pyo files" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/699498
<ubottu> bug 1116418 in python-tz (Ubuntu) "Sync python-tz 2012c-1 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1116418
<ubottu> bug 1112496 in python-imaging (Ubuntu Raring) "python-imaging broken in raring" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1112496
<barry> * foundations-r-python33: done.
<barry> * foundations-r-python3-oauth: bug 1077094 marked invalid as the package is going away.  bug 1077087 bug 1077089 and bug 1077092 branches in various states of review.
<ubottu> bug 1077094 in ubuntuone-couch "Switch from python-oauth to python-oauthlib" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1077094
<ubottu> bug 1077087 in Ubuntu Single Sign On Client "Switch from python-oauth to python-oauthlib" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1077087
<ubottu> bug 1077089 in Ubuntu One Client "Switch from python-oauth to python-oauthlib" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1077089
<ubottu> bug 1077092 in Ubuntu One storage protocol "Switch from python-oauth to python-oauthlib" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1077092
<barry> * foundations-r-python-versions: new python-imaging (pillow) package provides py3 support, but see above bugs for backward compatibility fixes needed.   in conversations about software-center and session-installer re: wtf to do about python-xapian.  we may not be able to replace it  :(
<barry> done.
<bdmurray> failed to recreate nexus7 bug 1092734
<bdmurray> worked on an upstart job to watch for an hp printer to replace update-notifier job
<ubottu> bug 1092734 in ubuntu-nexus7 "Software updater crashes, cannot update software graphically." [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1092734
<bdmurray> removed unused firmware paths from uevent.c in update-notifier
<bdmurray> investigation into bug 1112496 (since comix doesn't work :-()
<ubottu> bug 1112496 in python-imaging (Ubuntu Raring) "python-imaging broken in raring" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1112496
<bdmurray> investigation into and testing of bug 1096022
<bdmurray> removed running-unity tag from the ubuntu general apport hook and upstream apport
<ubottu> bug 1096022 in update-manager (Ubuntu) ""E:Error, pkgProblemResolver::Resolve generated breaks" during lucid->precise universe upgrade of amd64" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1096022
<bdmurray> verified P SRU for bug 984276
<ubottu> bug 984276 in casper (Ubuntu Quantal) "installing casper on a non live system causes update-initramfs to fail" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/984276
<bdmurray> bug triage of update-manager bugs with ubuntu-release-upgrade-core symptom
<bdmurray> improved the speed at which the user parameter works at errors
<bdmurray> resovled an issue on errors where + in package names and versions wasn't being encoded for using in a url
<bdmurray> worked on bucketsystems column family code
<bdmurray> created a new canonistack environment for errors since my previous one had died
<bdmurray> tested and modified bucketsystems column family code in canonistack
<bdmurray> blueprint wise I am working on foundations-r-phased-updates
<bdmurray> â done
<ogra_> done:
<ogra_>  * various nx7 bugfixes
<ogra_>  * worked with kernel team and diwic to make sound work on boot on the nx7
<ogra_>  * worked with kernel team to quieten the massive dmesg noise the interactive governor causes
<ogra_>  * held UDW talk about image build infrastructure (will start a wikipage with the notes as base for proper build system documentation)#
<ogra_>  * hunting down livefs breakage (again)
<ogra_> todo:
<ogra_>  * port nx7 images to xz compression
<ogra_>  * discuss livefs builder situation with infinity (carried over from last week, blocked on builder)
<ogra_>  * fix plymouth vs console-setup racing somehow
<ogra_> done
<slangasek> barry: not able to replace python-xapian - hmm, have new requirements emerged, or are the alternatives proving to be inadequate?
<slangasek> bdmurray: planning to upload that new update-notifier upstart job soon?
<barry> slangasek: probably a conversation to have a bit later ;)
<slangasek> xnox: speaking of which, is usb-creator getting an upload with the fixed job that's in bzr?
<infinity> ogra_: It's been pointed out that, if you plan to use xz, depending on pxz and using that might make things slightly less painful.
<xnox> slangasek: yes. today.
<slangasek> xnox: yay :)
<ogra_> infinity, like ... being able to use it on the panda itself ?
<bdmurray> slangasek: well, I thought it should really go in hplip and haven't heard from til, additionally waiting for the user session work seems fine.
<infinity> ogra_: Yeah.  It'll still be slower than gzip, but potentially acceptably so.
<ogra_> infinity, what holds me back from the switch is that i have to re-work so much stuff for it on both sides if i want nusakan to do xz
<slangasek> bdmurray: ah, ok
<ogra_> infinity, great, i'll try it then
<infinity> ogra_: Easy enough to take your rootfs tarball and do some local testing on a Panda.
<ogra_> yep
<infinity> ogra_: See if you can find a sweet spot.
<ogra_> after i fixed the installer from being completely unusable
<slangasek> ogra_: hunting down livefs breakage> are things currently broken, or currently working?
 * ogra_ notes cjwatson isnt iun -desktop 
<ogra_> slangasek, not working since we dropped a tar option
<ogra_> i just heard about it now
<slangasek> ogra_: hmm. eta for fix?
<ogra_> well, worst case i can roll that back immediately and we lose some memory gains cjwatson introduced
<infinity> ogra_: Err, wait.  What?  The dropping of the tar option from the installer?
<xnox> ac100-tarball-installer that is
<infinity> ogra_: How did that "break" the livefs?
<ogra_> infinity, droppiing of -m seems to make tar crazy
<slangasek>  * systemd packaging: slow progress
<slangasek>  * ovmf packaging nearly done; edk2 is clearly not structured with distributions in mind
<slangasek>  * reviewing UbuntuKylin package submissions; will mail the TB to ask this to be an official flavor as soon as the core set is accepted
<ogra_> i havent digged deeper yet (or seen it myself)... i know about it since the meeting started :P
<slangasek> (done)
<infinity> ogra_: Is there a bug or any sort of analysis?
<xnox> well it worked without -m, but not "without -m and adding --warning=no-timestamp" or so the report says.
<ogra_> infinity, only chat in #ubuntu-desktop yet
<slangasek> doko: your turn
<doko> - fix ftbfs for older gcc releases (changed kernel headers, missing struct siginfo)
<doko> - llvm/clang updates
<doko> - upload pillow for python3
<doko> - openjdk security update
<doko> - FOSDEM
<doko> (done)
<doko> will follow-up on FOSDEM later
<ogra_> slangasek, oh, the "hunting down livefs breakage" from my report was supposed to be "hunting down livefs builder breakage" its unrelated to the current issue
<ogra_> (was just a coincident that you asked while i was told its broken :) )
<slangasek> ah, cjwatson is off this afternoon, so stokachu:
<stokachu> ok
<slangasek> ogra_: hmm!
<stokachu> Followed up bug 1052038, awaits verification
<ubottu> bug 1052038 in eCryptfs "ecryptfs_fnek_sig missing when login at the same time on cron session close" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1052038
<stokachu> Need a little more information on bug 923876 if we are planning on applying this to precise and quantal? Or whats the overall consensus on removing old kernels on a system during upgrades?
<ubottu> bug 923876 in apt (Ubuntu) "FR: Limit and clean-up kernel images and headers automatically in LTS" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/923876
<stokachu> Did my first sync package request though im not sure how to tell if I got credit for the request or not other than looking at the bug itself.
<stokachu> (done)
<ogra_> slangasek, the builder was off for two days again this week ... thanks to elmo and infinity its back in business though
<xnox> stokachu: https://launchpad.net/~adam-stokes/+synchronised-packages
<ogra_> (it seems to always die on saturdays ... probably going out to party on weekends or so )
<stokachu> xnox: ah ok sweet
<infinity> ogra_: It's probably just cause it can't count: http://sourceware.org/ml/glibc-cvs/2013-q1/msg00115.html
<ubottu> sourceware.org bug 2013 in libc "memccpy() gives inconsistent results on mmapped files" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<ogra_> oha
<ogra_> "Fix the value of TWO"
<stokachu> xnox: there we go :D
<ogra_> it couls just count one by one then :P
<ogra_> *could
<stokachu> re: apt removing older kernels is starting to make its way through internally so any thoughts on that would be appreciated
<infinity> stokachu: Oh, crap.  So, yeah.  I was meant to backport the apt stuff last week, and got distracted by other work.
<infinity> stokachu: I can still do that today, and maybe Colin will accept it.
<ev> - Feedback to Martin's code review of the grouped reports branch of apport.
<ev>   This, if you don't recall, is for showing system internal errors as part of
<ev>   the next regular application error.
<ev> - Code review for Brian.
<ev> - Wrote a tool to bootstrap the postgres database for local copies of Errors.
<ev> - Taught the prodstack-prep branches to talk to Swift natively when running on
<ev>   canonistack/prodstack.
<ev> - Added the bulk of the Canonical engineering teams to the ACL for stacktrace
<ev>   access on errors.ubuntu.com. Added code to Errors and the prodstack charms to
<ev>   manage further additions to the ACL with minimal code changes.
<ev> - Big improvements to the average errors per calendar day graph over the
<ev>   weekend. The text for the milestones and dates finally all fits. We now also
<ev>   set the domain to (0, 0.4) so the difference between 12.04 and 12.10 should
<ev>   be much more discernable. There's a few more improvements to be made that
<ev>   I'll fit in while other work compiles or in the evening. I've also cleaned up
<ev>   the call stack representation in the most common problems table.
<ev> - More fixes to whoopsie. Trying to get a new build out, but the tests are
<ev>   failing only in sbuild due to leaks detected by valgrind. Fixed one already,
<ev>   so this new memcheck test addition is already proving useful.
<ev>   - If we can move the connectivity check and inotify watch into upstart, we
<ev>     save about 0.8 MB of memory in whoopsie (though admittedly whoopsie no
<ev>     longer runs all the time and its memory usage becomes less important).
<ev>   - Not pulling in CURL takes us down to running in 200K, but we kind of need
<ev>     that :). I suspect its the SSL stuff taking up the lion's share.
<ev> - More fixes to the prodstack charms. JuanJo is making good headway on getting
<ev>   these deployed to stagingstack.
<ev>   - Trying to build the universe to get a recent version of python-swiftclient
<ev>     working in precise.
<ev> (done)
<stokachu> infinity: ok no worries i was just pinged internally about this yesterday so its not really heating up yet and your confirmation of it is good enough
<stokachu> thanks
<xnox> * Short week due to Fosdem Fri-Mon
<xnox>   - loads of people met and conversations held
<xnox>   - everyone is talking about aarch64
<xnox>   - everyone is waiting for aarch64 hw
<xnox>   - interesting talks on init systems & [e]udev
<xnox>   - keysigning...
<xnox> .
<xnox> * Last week, poked pyo optimisation with barry a little.
<xnox>   I want to run one last test (i think i didn't have everything
<xnox>   without docstrings), but it looks likes on currently idle python
<xnox>   processes there isn't much ram savings.
<xnox> * Also gave a talk on making/fixing packages to cross-build. Need to
<xnox>   convert to blog post / packaging guide section.
<xnox> .
<xnox> * Precise:
<stokachu> infinity: will this be for quantal and precise?
<xnox>   Uploaded SRU for 2 clustered LVM issues. Not critical for 12.04.2 as
<xnox>   clvm is not on the server cds. bug #833368 and bug #988881 .
<xnox> .
<ubottu> bug 833368 in lvm2 (Ubuntu Precise) "clustered lvm commands fail with "activation/monitoring=0 is incompatible with clustered Volume Group" error" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/833368
<xnox> * foundations-r-arm-usb-creator-fastboot-support:
<ubottu> bug 988881 in lvm2 (Ubuntu Precise) "/etc/init.d/clvm status exitcode always 0" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/988881
<xnox>   udisks2 backend created a few sticks now. Porting/Testing last
<xnox>   pieces in the -helper and then we can drop udisks from CD.
<xnox> .
<xnox> * foundations-r-software-raid
<xnox>   mdadm initial merge ready, should upload by the end of the week.
<xnox> (done)
<infinity> stokachu: That's the general plan.
<jodh> * blueprints
<stokachu> ok sounds good
<jodh>   - foundations-r-upstart-user-session-enhancements:
<jodh>     - Merged lp:~jamesodhunt/upstart/setenv+getenv.
<jodh>     - Finished and raised MP for lp:~jamesodhunt/upstart/event-prefixes.
<jodh>     - Wrote and raised MP on
<stokachu> ill relay that information
<jodh>       lp:~jamesodhunt/upstart/remove-initctl-job+instance-options
<jodh>     - Working on upstart shutdown.
<jodh>   - foundations-r-upstart-roadmap: no progress
<jodh>   - foundations-r-arm-ubiquity: no progress
<jodh> * other:
<jodh>   - FOSDEM 2013 (away Fri-Mon)
<jodh>   - MP for restarting Upstart on libjson0 upgrade
<jodh>     https://code.launchpad.net/~jamesodhunt/ubuntu/raring/json-c/restart-upstart/+merge/146868
<jodh> á¨
<jodh>  
<slangasek> bah, ok, this is the second time since upgrading this machine to raring that the desktop has completely locked up for minutes at a time... not even the cursor moves
<slangasek> anybody else seeing this?
<stgraber> Feature work:
<stgraber>  - Upstart (BLUEPRINT: foundations-r-upstart-user-session-enhancements)
<stgraber>   - No progress done last week, planning on testing it this week.
<stgraber>  - Container (BLUEPRINT: servercloud-r-lxc)
<stgraber>   - libseccomp was promoted to main
<stgraber>   - Worked on a fix for bug 1113821
<ubottu> bug 1113821 in libvirt (Ubuntu Raring) "libvirt-bin deletes /etc/dnsmasq.d/libvirt-bin on upgrade" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1113821
<stgraber>   - Code reviews.
<stgraber>   - Preparing 0.9~alpha3 to be released next week.
<stgraber>   - Discussed plan for container/security/lxc micro-conference at LPC2013
<barry> slangasek: nope.  what h/w do you have?
<stgraber>  - Networking (BLUEPRINT: foundations-r-networking)
<stgraber>   - Still waiting on test results for the infiniband support, no other progress there.
<stgraber> Other work:
<stgraber>  - Networking
<stgraber>   - Spent quite a bit of time getting Ofono to work with NetworkManager, slowly getting there.
<stgraber>     (glib + gobject + dbus in NM can be the source of rather bad headaches...)
<stgraber>  - QATracker
<slangasek> stokachu: on the apt kernel autoremoval, I thought we already did backport that to precise+quantal, no?
<stgraber>   - Helped setup some other internal instances of the tracker.
<stgraber>  - Meetings/Talks
<stgraber>   - Had an Ubuntu Development Hangout yesterday
<stgraber>   - Will have an LXC IRC meeting tomorrow to present the user namespace work and discuss some of the next steps.
<stgraber> TODO:
<stgraber>  - Continue the ofono/NM work.
<stgraber>  - Try to finish any LXC feature work for this cycle (1 item left).
<stgraber>  - Prepare some upstart user session debs with all our patches and the initial Xsession scripts and upstart jobs.
<stgraber> (DONE)
<stokachu> slangasek: ill double check but tmk it wasn't
<stgraber> if it was, it's not working ;)
 * stgraber had to manually wipe a few kernels on a dozen machine over the weekend to clear some space in /boot
 * barry too
<bdmurray> heh, me too!
<bdmurray> just one machine though
 * xnox currently has 9 kernels on my machine in raring.... i thought i should have less.
<slangasek> barry: hw> standard intel mobile graphics, I forget the model
 * ogra_ has 12 on precise
<slangasek> heh, ok - and infinity 'fessed up that it's still on his todo, so
 * slangasek gets to the bottom of scrollback finally
<stgraber> slangasek: if that's your x201, then it's first gen i7 graphics (Arrandale chipset with Ironlake graphics, product id 0046)
<slangasek> yeah, that ;)
<infinity> xnox: Before you go manually doing anything to those kernels, talk to me out of band.
<slangasek> so there seem to be two entangled problems here
<xnox> infinity: ack. My install is not typical by any means, so it could be of my wrong doing.
<barry> slangasek: i've got a radeon
<slangasek> one is that firefox is helpfully using 100% of a CPU; the other is that X is using 100% of a CPU and not responding interactively
<slangasek> I guess I should file a critical bug, when I can get back to the desktop
<xnox> stgraber: do you want to help out specing a machine for me?! =)
<ogra_> you should definitely get more cores then ... one per app or so
<slangasek> [TOPIC] work item
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: work item
<slangasek> [TOPIC] work items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: work items
<slangasek> ogra_: X already has a core to itself, it's not doing anything *useful* with it :P
<ogra_> heh
<stgraber> xnox: hehe, I just happen to have used a pretty much identical laptop to slangasek's for the past two years and had some X problems in the past ;)
<slangasek> so I was going to pull up some numbers to see how we're all doing individually wrt the burndown trend line
<slangasek> but with my laptop being coy, those numbers are currently not at my fingertips
<stgraber> xnox: now I'm on a x230 with a different set of problem (mostly caused by me only using displayport displays which apparently nobody does...)
<slangasek> instead, I'll just say that you should all be checking your personal status.ubuntu.com page and making sure that you are below the trendline, as of *today*
<slangasek> if you aren't, that doesn't mean you need to work overtime, it means you need to talk to me to figure out what we need to postpone or move around on the team
<slangasek> the team's burndown is above the line, and realistically, we're going to be seeing demands on our time for work not shown on that chart (i.e., work to support the mobile effort)
<slangasek> so we need to get our priorities squared away wrt the stuff from UDS, so that people know what we are actually delivering this cycl
<slangasek> e
<slangasek> any questions?
<stgraber> slangasek: not sure if that also impacts the team's trendline, but I have 10 Edubuntu work items in my personal chart which if ignored makes me below the trendline
<barry> slangasek: do in progress count? :)
<slangasek> also, note that even with everyone on the team down below the trendline, we'll be above the trendline for the team as a whole because of workitems on our blueprints that are assigned to people not on the team
<doko> tex-common at version 3.15? that looks wrong ...
<ev> should we add workitems for things that have come up? For example, I wasn't expecting to do all this prodstack stuff.
<slangasek> so if you're the assignee for a blueprint that has external workitems, please be sure to check with those folks on how they're doing and if they'll still deliver this cycle
<slangasek> ev: no, burndown charts shouldn't be an exercise in paperwork to make us look productive :)
<slangasek> barry: no ;)
<infinity> doko: Wrong, how?
 * xnox ponders what to do with Low and Undefined priority specs which was mostly community/nice-to-haves
<slangasek> stgraber: it does impact the team's trendline, but I'll mentally subtract
<doko> doesn't approach Pi anymore
<infinity> Hahaha.
<slangasek> stgraber: so don't worry about faking up the state just to make the trendline happy
<xnox> infinity: it's not hahaha, but a real problem. it should never been 3.15.
<stgraber> slangasek: good ;)
<infinity> doko: There's a 4.xx in experimental, if you really want to be sad about the versions inflating.
<xnox>  /o\ did TeX community go crazy?!
<slangasek> xnox: realistically, they should probably be postponed; if you run out of todo work items early, you can always rescue them from the postponed pile
<slangasek> any other qs?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
<slangasek> bdmurray: what news?
<bdmurray> I believe this is our top error at the moment
<bdmurray> https://errors.ubuntu.com/bucket/?id=/usr/bin/apturl-gtk:AttributeError:parseArgs:parse:%3Cmodule%3E:main:parseArgs
<stgraber> oh nice, .decode() on a python3 string, that won't quite work ;)
<xnox> bdmurray: so we should check latest apt-urls posted on OMGubuntu to find the culprit =)
<barry> ouch ;)
<xnox> ev: we don't have server side hooks yet to query what sting is failing?!
<bdmurray>   	
<bdmurray> /usr/bin/python3 /usr/bin/apturl-gtk /home/whoever/Downloads/MediaPlayerClassic_RocketFuelInstaller (1).exe
<ev> xnox: I am but one man, busy getting everything ready for the cloud.
<bdmurray> I guess we could look at the proccmdlines?
<barry> is the str.decode() bug filed?
<xnox> ev: True. prodstack is a lot of "prod" in it.
<bdmurray> barry: no
<ev> :)
<bdmurray> oh, maybe its because apturl is being used with local files?
<slangasek> oh this is special
<slangasek> killall -9 firefox, and it keeps going
<ogra_> lovely
<barry> slangasek: i saw a lot of ineffective kill -9s on the nexus
<ogra_> sudo harder :)
<xnox> bdmurray: not quite. it looks like some browser extension went crazy cause all files are (a) local (b) in download or .cache locations
<slangasek> barry: !
<ogra_> barry, bug # ?
<ogra_> :)
<slangasek> sounds like we need to file a critical bug against the kernel for that, too
<ogra_> nx7 is a different kernel though
<xnox> bdmurray: but apt-url should handle that fine, but it won't help if browser has now defaulted to open everything with apt-url instead of other mime-handlers.
<barry> yeah, you know which kernel i'm talkin' 'bout.   i wasn't shaving the yak that day though
<ogra_> (which doesnt say much, might be present since before the nx7 kernel, who knows)
<stgraber> well, kill -9 can be ineffective if the process is stuck in I/O wait (D state)
<stgraber> now the source of the I/O wait is usually the bug (and in some cases it's a kernel bug)
<bdmurray> xnox: you seem to be knowledgeable about this and in a good position to look at...
<slangasek> stgraber: it's not in I/O wait, it's actively consuming my CPU
<xnox> bdmurray: ok. I'll chat with -desktop folks and try to investigate it.
<stgraber> slangasek: hmm, ok, that's really special then ;)
<slangasek> xnox: assign the bug to yourself?
<slangasek> (er, if there is a bug yet)
<slangasek> bdmurray: any other bugs/crashes you're worried about?
<bdmurray> ev: oh maybe there should a create bug link on the bucket page
<ev> bdmurray: yes, definitely
<bdmurray> ev: because you'd have to go to ?package=apturl and then find the right bucket
<bdmurray> slangasek: the rls r tracking bugs are looking a bit long
<bdmurray> there are 3 critical ones
<bdmurray> bug 1066480
<ubottu> bug 1066480 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Raring) "Installer doesn't show encrypted partitions" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1066480
<bdmurray> bug 1013798
<ubottu> bug 1013798 in libgcrypt11 (Ubuntu Raring) "Blink SIP client segfaults with libgcrypt11 1.5.0-3ubuntu0.1" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1013798
<slangasek> bdmurray: sorry, can you pass the link to the report too?
<bdmurray> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-r-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<bdmurray> and bug 1084063
<ubottu> bug 1084063 in ubuntu-defaults-nexus7 (Ubuntu Raring) "plymouth in raring causes system hardlock if console_setup is not run in the initramfs on nexus7 prior to starting plymouthd" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1084063
<ogra_> yeah, thats a bad one, i think colin took a look but we didnt talk about it yet
<slangasek> 1084063 is already on ogra's todo list, AIUI
<ogra_> yeah
<slangasek> stokachu: any luck with bug #1013798?
<ubottu> bug 1013798 in libgcrypt11 (Ubuntu Raring) "Blink SIP client segfaults with libgcrypt11 1.5.0-3ubuntu0.1" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1013798
<slangasek> xnox: can you take bug #1066480?
<ubottu> bug 1066480 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Raring) "Installer doesn't show encrypted partitions" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1066480
<xnox> bug 1066480 is on me. but can be worked on post ff.
<xnox> The solution is to correctly try and call existing partman-crypto api call that colin pointed out to me previously.
 * slangasek assigns
<bdmurray> I looked at some of the ubiquity ones yesterday and also noticed that bug 1080701 is still getting regular metoos
<ubottu> bug 1080701 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Raring) "After 'Preparing to install Ubuntu' screen, raring installation hangs" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1080701
<slangasek> already assigned to xnox - are you missing any information to be able to work on that one?
<xnox> bdmurray: there are two hang fixes in os-prober I uploaded. Which needs to be uploaded as part of ubiquity.
<xnox> it is random for me and I cannot reliable reproduce it with debugging on to see what hangs.
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else to discuss?
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Feb  6 16:58:46 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-02-06-16.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-02-06-16.02.html
<slangasek> thanks everyone!
<ogra_> thanks !
<barry> thanks!
<jodh> thanks
 * slangasek goes back to kicking this krazy kernel
 * barry reboots his world
 * ogra_ goes to give the cat her daily shot (worst part of my day)
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-02-07
<czajkowski> aloha
<YokoZar> Ahoy
<czajkowski> dholbach: pleia2 cprofitt YokoZar ping :)
<dholbach> hello hello
<dholbach> so today it's the DMB and the Docs team? :)
<czajkowski> indeed
<dholbach> do we have anyone here from either of the two?
<czajkowski> Laney: ping
<czajkowski> they were both mailed.
<dholbach> barry, bdrung, cody-somerville, micahg, tumbleweed, stgraber: DMB ping too
<dholbach> and the Docs team would be https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/+members#active
<dholbach> (I guess)
<dholbach> I'll ask in #ubuntu-doc
<YokoZar> Good idea
<czajkowski> will be disapointing if nobody shows up again
<czajkowski> :(
<czajkowski> nobody? that's a bit disapointing for us , guess we'll have to reschedule and re add to the agenda so
<dholbach> ok, we've waited for 15m now
<dholbach> I suggest we reschedule.
<dholbach> if nobody beats me to it, I can send out mails tomorrow
<czajkowski> I'll send ou the mails tomorrow dholbach
<czajkowski> once we find a slot in our timetable
 * dholbach hugs czajkowski
<dholbach> thanks a bunch
<czajkowski> it's rather unfortunate as we're running out of space, we may need to meet during one of our hangouts to make space tbh
<Laney> OH HI!
<dholbach> or maybe there's another month with 5 Thursdays :)
<czajkowski> Laney: ah there you are!
<czajkowski> where are the others!
<dholbach> hey Laney :)
<Laney> dunno
<Laney> do this:
<Laney> !dmb-ping
<ubottu> bdrung, cody-somerville, Laney, micahg, barry, tumbleweed, stgraber: DMB ping
<stgraber> already in two meetings, can't attend this one, sorry
<cody-somerville> I have a doctor's appointment to head to. Sorry.
<czajkowski> it would have been helpful if someone had told us this when I mailed we could have rescheduled and added another board in this time.
<czajkowski> will mail tomorow
<dholbach> ok, so we reschedule both?
<czajkowski> nods
<czajkowski> guess so
<dholbach> all right
<bdrung> hi
 * dholbach goes shopping
 * czajkowski hugs dholbach 
<Laney> hey you got two of us!
<dholbach> all right, let's talk to the two of them - in that case we just reschedule the docs team
<dholbach> and we can maybe get some more opinions via mail ... or something
<dholbach> Gwaihir, czajkowski: ^ what do you think?
<czajkowski> sure
<pleia2> I think this is ok for now
<pleia2> (we already rescheduled once :))
<dholbach> perfect
<czajkowski> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Feb  7 17:22:45 2013 UTC.  The chair is czajkowski. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<dholbach> thanks bdrung, Laney
<czajkowski> #topic DMB catch up
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: DMB catch up
<czajkowski> bdrung: Laney how are things in the life of the DMB these days?
<dholbach> Are you both up for reelection right now?
<bdrung> dholbach: yes
<dholbach> Looking back at your last term, how did you feel did the DMB generally cope with their tasks?
<bdrung> czajkowski: the team is working nicely together, but our decisions are controversial (see discussions on ubuntu-devel mailing list)
<dholbach> bdrung, is the general workload all right?
<Laney> i think we achieved some good things on process
<Laney> but work is ongoing
<dholbach> Laney, can you give us a few bullet points? (for those not watching the DMB closely)
<czajkowski> bdrung: aye we'll come back to that
<bdrung> dholbach: the workload is all right, but we could be more proactive (in case of expected deferrals)
<Laney> we made it easier to modify packagesets
<Laney> made their definitions more precise (to facilitate this)
<bdrung> * making it easier for DD to get PPU rights
<Laney> we'll be voting at our next meeting on granting the kernel team the right to manage their packageset
<dholbach> ah, nice
<Laney> as a result of being proactive on that at UDS
<Laney> we tightened up on our meetings as we were overrunning a lot every time previously
<Laney> now it's not so much of a problem
<dholbach> so you don't have to ask applicants to attend another meeting too often?
<Laney> correct
<dholbach> do you still handle (some of the) applications via mail?
<Laney> applicants know in advance which meeting they will be heard at
<Laney> in exceptional cases we can do that
<bdrung> the last exception was quite some time ago
<dholbach> YokoZar, welcome back
<czajkowski> so coming back to what bdrung mentioned above
<czajkowski> controversial decisions
<dholbach> I liked the discussion on ubuntu-devel@ - there were a couple of good ideas. Are you still discussing future changes to the DMB process internally? Or do you wait until a new DMB is formed?
<czajkowski> care to elaborate and tell us about that
<Laney> it's felt that our criteria should be clearer
<bdrung> some developers dislike that we deferred some applications.
<Laney> so that people know with more certainty when they should be applying
<czajkowski> defered as in ran out of time, or defered their applications as not suitable?
<Laney> the latter
<bdrung> defered their applications as not suitable _yet_
<czajkowski> nods
<dholbach> I liked Laney's suggestion of the DAT and the DMB working a bit more closely together. Do you feel there were other promising proposals?
<bdrung> dholbach: yes
<Laney> being proactive when there are clear issues visible a priori
<dholbach> (Or in general: applicants reaching out to the DMB beforehand.)
<czajkowski> so I guess I found this interesting given other boards when applications are asked to defer till more experience either come back at a later date, or appeal to the CC, I'd never seen a situation like the above take place on the mailing list,
<Laney> we have to avoid collusion and groupthink though
<czajkowski> is this normal?
<dholbach> Laney, can you elaborate?
<Laney> on which point?
<dholbach> avoiding collusion and groupthink
<Laney> it might be tempting to discuss concerns in advance internally
<dholbach> maybe my day has been too long already, but I'm not quite sure what it means :)
<Laney> and thereby come to a consensus in private
<czajkowski> dholbach: tis ok am confused also
<dholbach> ah ok, I guess that makes sense - I would have hoped, that everybody would just speak their mind in a prior exchange, but I guess it can't be avoided that somebody influences somebody else who hasn't made up their mind yet
<Laney> if you want to redirect an applicant away in advance of a meeting you might want to discuss with your fellow members before going to the applicant
<Laney> this isn't a bad thing per se, but it's not a formal vote so it should be handled properly
<Laney> as it would be difficult for someone to press on when advised against by one of the people that will be considering them
<dholbach> I'd hope that over time you'd find a good protocol for this, just by trying it out. :)
<Laney> actually i think perhaps a consensus would be a good thing to achieve here
<Laney> otherwise one person who doesn't necessarily represent the rest would be able to dissuade people too easily
<Laney> something that would have to be worked out in practice i suppose
<Laney> bdrung: perhaps you have another idea to add
<Laney> ok, i will outline my other idea
<dholbach> yeah, I can easily imagine having two people on a board, one more trusting or lenient, the other more demanding - in a discussion I'd hope they'd find a spectrum with everything between "absolute no-go" and "rubber-stamping the application"
<bdrung> hm, i think we should try it out and see how it works. if someone of us has doubt about one applicant, he can raise that doubt on the dmb channel and see if someone agrees. if two people of the dmb has doubts, asking the application makes sense
<Laney> it's quite simple: giving better feedback for both these soft deferrals and hard ones at a meeting
<Laney> currently if we do anything it's just by email which isn't very easy for people to find
<Laney> i think we could look at being more organised on this
<Laney> so that, over time, the expectations become more clear
<dholbach> and if one of them choses to vote -1 and the other one +1 afterwards, I guess that can't be avoided - or if you phrase your reply to the applicant before the meeting in a way which says "some of us felt you might want to look at doing a few more merges / writing a bit more about yourself in your application / come back in a month or two"
<dholbach> yeah, that sounds great
<Laney> i would be interested in us talking a bit about czajkowski's earlier point if you don't mind
<dholbach> sure
<Laney> namely why the dmb is (seen as being?) quite different from other membership boards
<Laney> i don't really have much insight into the other ones but i understand that it's quite common for people to be declined membership there?
<czajkowski> it happens from time to time yes
<bdrung> dholbach: we require +4 for an application to succeed. so voting +0 shows doubts and -1 shows a stronger no
<czajkowski> people are asked to come back again, usually with some areas to improve upon
<czajkowski> and that's fine
<czajkowski> more often than not they do then get approved.
<dholbach> I don't know, but from my time when I did this as part of the CC, it didn't happen very often - probably some one-digit percentage
<Laney> doesn't seem to me that there are any clearer standards for membership than there are for uploader applications?
<dholbach> but this might have changed with the membership boards
<pleia2> yeah, I wouldn't say "quite common" but it can be harder to understand what's required for approval since the scope of Membership is much broader and less concrete
<pleia2> so sometimes people don't get approved because they completely lack documentation and testimonials
<pleia2> presumably someone applying to DMB actually does always have a body of work they can show in some way
<Laney> right
<Laney> are dmb votes seen more as judgements on a person's work?
<Laney> so deferrals are some kind of implicit criticism there
<pleia2> as gentle as a deferral is for any of these boards, it will feel like rejection and be painful
<bdrung> or does gaining upload right is more attractive than being able to call oneself ubuntu member?
<dholbach> I could imagine that the review of the DMB is much more extensive than that of a membership approving board. With good testimonials, consistent and substantial work of a cycle you can get membership.
<pleia2> bdrung: I think that's highly dependent upon the person, motivations for both can vary wildly
<czajkowski> pleia2: +1
<Laney> people are often peturbed that the dmb goes against endorsements
<pleia2> and with membership, you don't actually need it to "get your work done" (ie - upload packages directly yourself), where as upload rights I'm sure many people apply for that reason
<dholbach> In the case of the DMB on the other hand you could have individual uploads inspected(?) and be asked about them. Or be asked why you didn't take part in some developers' activity. So it seems that the expectations are more concrete, even if still vague.
<Laney> right - it has the blocking factor
<Laney> blocking/enabling
<Laney> let's leave the introspection aside
<Laney> we'll see what we manage to achieve (hopefully i'll be on the board to help implement some changes)
 * pleia2 nods
<dholbach> thanks a lot for looking into this
<czajkowski> thank you
<dholbach> the ideas which were brought up might take us a long way already
<dholbach> and generate some further discussion and ideas :)
<dholbach> is there anything you feel the CC could help you with?
<bdrung> one thing come to my mind: decoupling PPU from Ubuntu membership. Would that be a good idea?
<pleia2> bdrung: yes
<dholbach> I think we discussed it in some mailing list discussion already
<pleia2> we've discussed this a few times in the past, that tended to be the consensus
 * dholbach nods
<Laney> we just need to implement it afaik
<bdrung> so it's just a matter of implementing it
<Laney> put it on the agenda
<bdrung> Laney: do you or should i?
<Laney> you please
<Laney> oh, I just remembered something: the post meeting tasks seem quite arduous which means that people often put them off
<Laney> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda "After the meeting"
<Laney> lots of tedious wiki fiddling
<Laney> I wonder what fat we can trim there
<czajkowski> rotating the chair
<czajkowski> sharing tasks
<czajkowski> cant really not add them to the LP team :)
<dholbach> might be a good discussion on ubuntu-council-teams@lists.launchpad.net  :)
<pleia2> Laney: as long as the minutes include approval details, the same mail can be sent to -news team as to -devel and -devel-announce
<dholbach> other teams certainly have the same problem
<bdrung> i find it tedious to write the meeting minutes and and team report
<pleia2> bdrung: are the meeting minutes different than the team report?
<dholbach> maybe using the bot more (using AGREED, using ACTION, etc) might help with that?
<pleia2> for the CC they're the same, helps a lot (though still tedious)
<dholbach> sorry, I have got to run - thanks a lot everyone - and bdrung, Laney: if you feel the CC or I can help with anything we discussed earlier, please let me know
<dholbach> hugs!
<Laney> sure
<Laney> thanks a lot
<bdrung> maybe the formatting is different
<czajkowski> using the bot has helped a lot
<czajkowski> as it does a lot of thw work for you
<czajkowski> anyway moving on as we've gone over the time
<czajkowski> any other comments?
<pleia2> it requires a constant nagging to get people to use #action and #info (we do it for Xubuntu)
<pleia2> and even I forget :)
<czajkowski> do we have any actions from this meeting /
<pleia2> we should figure out how to get the doc team to respond
<bdrung> having one recording clerk would be nice. :)
<pleia2> it's a bit worrying that no one from the core doc team even acked our email
<pleia2> just a couple who work on the wiki, and said they'd come but didn't :\
<czajkowski> bdrung: sharing is much better trust me
<czajkowski> #action czajkowski mail the docs team again and reschedule meeting
<meetingology> ACTION: czajkowski mail the docs team again and reschedule meeting
<bdrung> czajkowski: but then i have to ask myself every time how to write the minutes and how to format them
<czajkowski> bdrung: well, roating chair and perso doing the mins has worked for the Loco council
<czajkowski> I really do have to head tbh
<pleia2> ok, thanks everyone
<cprofitt> very good conversation about the issue everyone
<czajkowski> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Feb  7 18:10:42 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-02-07-17.22.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-02-07-17.22.html
<cprofitt> thanks czajkowski for chairing
<hallino1> Evenng
<hallino1> Evening*
<newlife> hallino1: :D
<hallino1> newlife: ;)
<hallino1> s-fox: Hey my friend :)
<mapreri> hi hallino1 :)
<hallino1> Hey mapreri :)
<mapreri> how are you todey, hallino1? :)
<hallino1> mapreri: fine thanks, and you? :)
<hallino1> jderose: o/
<IdleOne> Give us a few minutes here folks and we will get this meeting started
<m4n1sh> jderose: hey
<newlife> jderose:  :D
<jderose> hi hallino1, hi m4n1sh :)
<jderose> and newlife :)
<mapreri> hallino1: better than yesterday...
<mapreri> jderose: hi!
<m4n1sh> jderose: applying for membership renewal. You too?
<IdleOne> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Feb  7 22:03:41 2013 UTC.  The chair is IdleOne. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<IdleOne> Hello and welcome to the Ubuntu Membership Review Board meeting for Feb 7, 2013. The wiki page for the Review Boards are available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards
<IdleOne> We will attempt to get through all of the applicants that have added themselves to that list before today's meeting. If we are unable to make it through the entire list due to time constraints, then at the next meeting we will pick up where we left off.
<IdleOne> The format for the meeting is as follows: We will go through the list of applicants one by one, by date of application (FIFO).
<jderose> m4n1sh: no, here to cheer on newlife :)
<IdleOne> Each applicant should introduce themselves (1-5 sentences) and provide links to their Ubuntu Wiki page. After the introduction the members of the Membership Review Board will review the pages and, if needed, ask the applicant further questions.
<IdleOne> During this time it is encouraged for other members of the community to show their support for the applicant. Do not be alarmed if the members of the Membership Review Board are quiet during this time; they are most likely reading wiki/launchpad/forum/other pages and deciding how they are going to vote.
<newlife> thx jderose :)
<IdleOne> When the board is ready to vote, they will publicly vote in the channel with either +1, 0, or -1 (for membership, abstain, and against membership, respectively). If the sum of those numbers is positive, then the applicant is now an official Ubuntu member! (feel free congratulate them!)
<IdleOne> Now, with any further ado, lets get started with the first applicant...
<IdleOne> #Membership application for newlife
<IdleOne> newlife: Please introduce yourself
<newlife> hello
<IdleOne> #voters IdleOne hggdh PabloRubianes s-fox
<meetingology> Current voters: IdleOne PabloRubianes hggdh s-fox
<newlife> I'm Marco, 41 years old, from Italy, the first time I tried Ubuntu was in 2007, even though I had tried other linux distributions only out of curiosity.
<newlife> My primary job is not just inherent computer but since I was a guy and I had the PC  I use it daily and my curiosity about it has allowed me to explore a huge world that is ...
<newlife> the freedom to decide, act and use software that can be modified, for improvement and implemented by all and sundry.
<newlife> Continuously I participate in the work of the Italian community of Ubuntu and I'm part of the Newsletter Team, Marketing Team, Test Team and I'm the coordinator of the Full Circle Magazine Italy Team.
<newlife> From january also in thenew Social Media Team.
<newlife> I have some small experience in programming with C + + but I'm trying to learn python.
<newlife> Yes, true, you could say ... you would to study? You think you can program?
<newlife> I have a modest opinion.
<newlife> Never think you can not do better.
<newlife> Life is a series of tests and challenges, never say never and do not say 'I can not! "
<newlife> I've never facing new challenges with the idea 'not be able to overcome it!'
<newlife> Instead, I always took the challenges head on trying to find the best and right for me to overcome them.
<newlife> This is my way of being that I try to reflect on the people who are close to me.
<IdleOne> Very impressive testimonials :)
<s-fox> +1 IdleOne
<newlife> I think: "A person with ubuntu is open and available to others, affirming of others, does not feel Threatened That Able and others are good, based from a proper self-assurance That comes from knowing he or she That Belongs in a greater whole and is diminished when others are humiliated or diminished, when others are tortured or oppressed
 * s-fox is still reading all of them
<PabloRubianes> +1 IdleOne
<newlife> I totally recognize myself in these words.
<newlife> In my wiki page Italian as my motto can be read:
<newlife> "The Good, only the Good, to the Good!"
<newlife> that's all!
<IdleOne> #voters IdleOne hggdh PabloRubianes s-fox iulian
<meetingology> Current voters: IdleOne PabloRubianes hggdh iulian s-fox
<IdleOne> Give us a minute to look/talk about this privately, if anyone is here to cheer on newlife NOW is the time folks :)
<newlife> :)
<PabloRubianes> newlife, have any italian loco friends here?
<IdleOne> jderose: Did you want to add anything?
<newlife> sure
<PabloRubianes> or anyone who wants to talk?
<newlife> hallino1:
<newlife> warp10:
<jderose> newlife is the sort of positive dream-big sort of person that is exactly what ubuntu (always) needs more of
<newlife> :)
<hallino1> So.. newlife it's a really good and special guy.. I know him when we was at Ubuntu-it meeting and no other words to say.. He do the best :)
<warp10> PabloRubianes: I want, and I am pleased to support Marco's application. He definitely deserves this memebership, both for his commitment and enthusiasm
<newlife> mapreri:
<newlife> hattory:
<IdleOne> Thank you. Ok I think we are ready to vote
<warp10> (PabloRubianes and I am part of that LocoTeam, BTW)
<PabloRubianes> thanks warp10
<IdleOne> #vote For membership approval of newlife
<meetingology> Please vote on: For membership approval of newlife
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<IdleOne> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from IdleOne
<iulian> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from iulian
<PabloRubianes> +1 keep the good work
<meetingology> +1 keep the good work received from PabloRubianes
<s-fox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from s-fox
<s-fox> i am very impressed :D
<hggdh> +1 bienvenuto :-)
<meetingology> +1 bienvenuto :-) received from hggdh
<IdleOne> So am I
<IdleOne> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: For membership approval of newlife
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<iulian> newlife: Well done and keep up the good work. Welcome aboard.
<s-fox> congrats!!!1
<warp10> newlife: bella socio! ;)
<IdleOne> Congrats newlife and welcome :)
<PabloRubianes> congrats newlife
<newlife> Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
<newlife> :D
<newlife> thx all
<PabloRubianes> :D
<hallino1> Bella amico newlife :D
<hggdh> :-)
<mapreri> newlife: congrats!
<IdleOne> ok moving on to m4n1sh ..
<jderose> newlife: hooray, well deserved! :D
<iulian> Indeed.
<IdleOne> m4n1sh: Please introduce yourself
<m4n1sh> Hello everyone.
<m4n1sh> I am Manish, 26 living in US
<newlife> I want to thak warp10, jderose, hallino1, mapreri, hattory, and all of them next to me!
<newlife> :D
<m4n1sh> I have been an Ubuntu Member before and I am reapplying
<m4n1sh> after 2 years
<m4n1sh> I work at Arizona State University's SuperComputing Center
<IdleOne> m4n1sh: Did your membership lapse?
<m4n1sh> IdleOne: yes
<m4n1sh> I have been using Ubuntu since 2006 and I had founded a Linux Users Group during my Undergrads
<s-fox> we can renew it without need for re-application
<m4n1sh> oh cool :)
<m4n1sh> as far as I know, Membership is for current work
<m4n1sh> so I thought I have to reapply
<IdleOne> I applaud your commitment to reapply though :)
<m4n1sh> :)
<PabloRubianes> +1 IdleOne
<s-fox> +1 IdleOne
<IdleOne> once a member always a member
<m4n1sh> :)
<s-fox> very simple
<m4n1sh> oh thanks.
 * s-fox thinks we can wrap this meeting up in record time (14 minutes for 2 candidates!)
<IdleOne> ok, so we are going to take care of your status in the back channel. Welcome back :)
<s-fox> Welcome back m4n1sh !
<PabloRubianes> s-fox, yes!!
<m4n1sh> Thanks a lot
<m4n1sh> Thanks s-fox
<jderose> i didn't know m4n1sh was up for renewal today, but i've had the pleasure of interacting with him a lot the past 2 years... he's always professional and positive, and has helped me many a time on technical issues :D
<IdleOne> jderose: it is nice to see that he is still doing good work, thank you for your support :)
<hggdh> m4n1sh: you really do not need to really -- and your membership expired end of 2012 -- :-)
<m4n1sh> hggdh: yes
<hggdh> s/to really/to reapply/
<IdleOne> Alright, that was quick and simple. Thank you all for coming and congrats to old and new members again.
<IdleOne> #endmetting
<IdleOne> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Feb  7 22:17:36 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-02-07-22.03.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-02-07-22.03.html
<hallino1> Congrats to all
<PabloRubianes> congrats m4n1sh and newlife keep the great work
<hggdh> anyway: welcome back, m4n1sh!
<m4n1sh> Thanks everyone
<jderose> newlife: m4n1sh: congrats again! i've gotta run :)
<IdleOne> m4n1sh: you still have your member cloak
<IdleOne> hehe
<newlife> thx jderose :D thx so much, my friend!
<IdleOne> you were defrauding the irc community :P
<m4n1sh> IdleOne: yeah, but not my email id, which was infact most important to me
<IdleOne> ah true, well that should be sorted now, you have been re-added to the LP group.
<newlife> thx everyone
<newlife> thx PabloRubianes :)
<IdleOne> email can take a few days to come back up
<newlife> no prob IdleOne :D
<newlife> i have to offer some beers tonight... so.. take the time u need! :D
<hattory> newlife: congrats dude!!!
<newlife> wow
<newlife> thx hattory :D
<IdleOne> hm
<nigelb> IdleOne: lol
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-02-08
<TheDrums> IdleOne: He stopped ^
 * shuduo is away: auto-away
 * shuduo is back (gone 00:07:21)
 * shuduo is away: auto-away
 * shuduo is back (gone 00:17:53)
<pleia2> shuduo: think you could disable that for this channel? :)
<shuduo> pleia2, already disabled. sorry
<pleia2> thank you!
<seb128> hey
<ogra_> yo
<jibel> \o
<janimo> hi
<seb128> heya everybody
<seb128> I hope you all had a good week
<seb128> ogra_, want to lead the meeting as usual?
<ogra_> sure
<seb128> danke ;-)
<ppisati> \o/
<ogra_> sooo
<ogra_> we have sound on boot working !!!!
<mfisch> ogra_: nice!
<ogra_> i think there were also some additional RAM cutoffs (i didnt fiollow to close this week, but it should be another few MB that we got rid of)
<ogra_> my current desktop runs using ~390M ... but ...
<ogra_> right after starting up the device it etas about 600M, it goes down over time to these 390 M later ... we need to find out what causes this spike
<ogra_> once thats done i think we are good to tick off the thirs marker in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Nexus7/raring-targets
<janimo> ogra_, I think still some daemons are started by default even if they should be ondemand, right seb128 ?
<ogra_> beyond that i think we should actually go over that table eveyr meeting (or every second one... or at least once a month)
<ogra_> janimo, yeah, upstart just grew session support
<seb128> yeah
<ogra_> we should see some siginificant changes due to that soon
<seb128> we daily some stuff on login
<seb128> but they mostly don't exit
<seb128> so I'm not sure what's creating the spike either
<ogra_> yeah, any delaying wont fix our ram footprint
 * janimo seems to have seen signond started although he never used U1
<ogra_> i suspect some whoopsie or apport run
<ogra_> janimo, yeah, there is a bug open for that, i thinnk ken looks into it
<ogra_> the images were broken for a few days btw ...
<ogra_> i just uploaded a roolback for a fix that seemingly caused this ... and will manually roll an image once the normal daily cronjob is done
<ogra_> the 08.1 images should be functional again
 * ptl wished he could have that annoying click loss bug fixed and also have the latest kde plasma so he could test other tablet interfaces on his nexus7
<ogra_> so pepole wanting to play with it on the weekend will have images
<ogra_> ptl, we all do :(
<seb128> janimo, signond is fixed, signon-ui is fixed in trunk but that didn't land on raring yet
<seb128> fixed = exit when not needed
<ogra_> ptl, (not plasma, but the click issue)
<ogra_> right, so ptl pointed out our worst bug still ...
<ogra_> do we have anyone from the X team around ?
<janimo> seb128, but does it start by default in a session?
<ogra_> do we know if there is any progress being made ?
<janimo> that seems a bit orthogonal to quitting on idle
<seb128> janimo, not by default, only if an app query it
<janimo> ok
 * ogra_ sees neither bryce nor timo
<seb128> which might be the case for e.g the files lens looking for google drive documents
<ogra_> janimo, how are the luxd and acceld replacement bits going ?
<janimo> not much code progress this week
<janimo> with lux we seem to have pushback because it needs to be yet another poll/wakeup
<janimo> the 'fix' would be to piggyback on the existing poll in accel code or somewhere else but that is a gross hack
<ogra_> well, yeah, and the fact that you cant manually adjust the brightness if it runs isnt great either
<janimo> upstream said they would not mind a dedicated lights plugin in gsd
<janimo> but I don't know what our short term plans are
<ogra_> how do they deal with that on i.e. macbooks ?
<janimo> I would not want to work on gsd if we decide in a few months we make a dedicated daemon
<ogra_> they ahve an ambient light sensor
<ogra_> and other laptops too
<janimo> ogra_, probably a special daemon. I think some VAIO models have that too
<janimo> so custom tools nothing in gsd
<ogra_> it is a function i would actually expect to live in the default brightness code of g-s-d
<seb128> upstream had concerns about those light sensors and power usage I think
<ogra_> *sniff*
<seb128> from what I read on IRC
<janimo> ogra_, me too. We need to touch control center too. I guess if we don't mind the extra ubuntu patch it should be done
<janimo> better than a separate shell daemon
<seb128> they said they are not easy to deal with, or you need to keep the dev ice open and pull
<ogra_> janimo, ++
<janimo> especially since we need control center hooks
<ogra_> seb128, right, thats our prob too
<ogra_> we currently need to poll for orientation and ambient
<janimo> seb128, yes that is hadess' reluctance too
<ogra_> janimo, i think we should have a general backend that does both pÃ¼olls
<janimo> but if that is how the hardware works there's no way around it
<ogra_> and i dont think its as gross to do it that way as you claim
<janimo> ogra_, I proposed that to lukewarm reception to upstream
<janimo> but yes, we may want to do that
<ogra_> it will save us one additional process that polls
<seb128> right
<ogra_> ideally we would indeed have the right firmware that gives us devices with events
<janimo> pitti suggested hooking it into unity even as that wakes up 60/s
<seb128> urg
<ogra_> oh ?
<seb128> putting more code in the wm
<seb128> what could go wrong...
<janimo> ogra_, sometimes the hw is cheap/dump so no events can come off it
<ogra_> right
<ogra_> seb128, we would have even more "unification" :)
<ogra_> we should move the kernel into it too or just make unity a loadable module ;)
<seb128> unity in the kernel
 * ppisati seconds the idea of moving kernel into unity
<seb128> going to love it :p
<ogra_> no more inter-process communication issues :)
<ogra_> ppisati, are you eager to work under seb128 ? :)
<seb128> ok, joke aside, let's move to the next topic ;-)
<vibhav> o/
<ogra_> what is the next topic then ?
<seb128> if there is one
<ogra_> vibhav, shoot
<janimo> seb128, actually I am prepared to do this work as desktop team/Ubuntu gsd maintainers feel is less intrusive
<janimo> if you are fine with a hacky patch for the time being that can be quickly done
<ogra_> janimo, yay
<vibhav> Is there any page listing tasks fpr new contributors?
<seb128> janimo, I'm fine with a hacky patch for this cycle
<vibhav> I wish to join the fun too :)
<janimo> \o/
<ogra_> dholbach, ^^^ do we have such a page ?
<seb128> vibhav, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-r-reduced-power-ram
<seb128> any item marked as TODO welcome contributions
<ogra_> right, you could just pick up workitems
<dholbach> ogra_, for what? specifically for the nexus7 work?
<ogra_> or talk to the QA guys and help gathering test data
<ogra_> dholbach, yeah
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Nexus7/Developers is the bare minimum - tasks could be added there
<seb128> vibhav, http://www.chizang.net/alex/blog/2012/11/23/memory-leaks-in-ubuntu-episode-i-detection/ as well
<seb128> and the following blog post
<ogra_> or dig through https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-nexus7
<janimo> seb128, all workitems there that have no [username] are for takes?
<ogra_> janimo, yep
<seb128> I'm taking a todo to consolidate the TODO list
<janimo> and the rest assumed to actually be owned
<vibhav> Yeah memory leaks, I was working on some the other day
<seb128> dholbach, ogra_: I will get a "how to contribute" section on the wiki next week
 * ogra_ would do an "action" for the bot, but i forgot to start it :P
<dholbach> perfect
<ogra_> seb128, thanks
<seb128> janimo, vibhav: any workitem that is TODO should not be started, feel free to grab those without name or ping whoever has his name on the line
<vibhav> Sure
<seb128> I don't think any of us really want to own the fix
<ogra_> we should all blog/G+/facebook about that page once it exists
<seb128> that would be good
<ogra_> get the community aware :)
<ogra_> well ...
<janimo> seb128, do you know why some have 'rewrite in vala' while others 'rewrite in !python'? Is there no consensus inside the unity team what the blessed plugin language should be?
<seb128> it's not up to the unity team
<seb128> we don't really want to dictate language
<ogra_> something thats resulting in fast compiled binaries
<seb128> if somebody prefers C that works for us
<ptl> gnome now recommends javascript, just to recall :P
<seb128> for apps only though
<seb128> they keep C for their platform
<seb128> it would be crazy to write the system stack in something interpreted
<ogra_> yeah
<seb128> ok
<seb128> so on other news, upstart session jobs seem to be on track
<seb128> they are going through a first round of testing from adventurous users
<seb128> it should land in raring in time for feature freeze
<janimo> well not dictating but consistency of tech at least among the bits shipped by default would sure help
<janimo> for carrying over maintenance/bugfixing experience
<seb128> janimo, we recommend C/vala/qt/go
<ogra_> binary is binary ... :)
<ogra_> we recommend go ?
<seb128> go is less for desktopish but a good choice for server components
 * ogra_ definitely doesnt recommend go for mobile images :) )
<seb128> ogra_, more for server stuff
<seb128> but yeah I would say C/vala/Qt for mobile
<ogra_> static linking is evil size wise
<seb128> Qt is closer from where we are going but it's cpp
<seb128> C/vala is good for gobject world
<ogra_> yup
<seb128> ok
<seb128> do we have anything else to cover?
<ogra_> nothing else from me
<ogra_> anyone else ?
<seb128> is there any blocker issue we should be looking at? out of that X/click/grab issue
<seb128> and the things mentioned during the meeting
<seb128> ?
<ogra_> i dont think we have any blockers beyond that
<seb128> ok, great
<ogra_> it actually seems to all go very smooth atm
<ogra_> oh, btw, usb-creator grew nexus7 installation support
 * ogra_ totally forgot to mention that above
<seb128> nice
<seb128> btw, just as another fyi, I will try to organize a bit better the valgrinding effort next week as well
<ogra_> if you run a raring PC please help testing it (you need to gunzip the img.gz file first, there isnt unzipping code yet)
<seb128> e.g set up a list of targets
<seb128> and open some bugs
<seb128> maybe blog about an example
<seb128> so we get some extra traction in there
<ogra_> awesome !
<seb128> I also want to get extra memory usage mesure over time/usage for things like gvfs/unity lenses/indicators
<seb128> we mostly did idle so far
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> but idle looks really good now
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> then you start using the dash or play with your indicator and you see we still have work :p
<ogra_> and the fun part is that i read everywhere how much more stable and how much faster 13.04 is for everyone testing it
<ogra_> even on desktops
<seb128> anyway it's a good start
<seb128> \o/
<ogra_> so we're on a very good track here
<seb128> good work everyone!
<ogra_> yeah
<seb128> ok that, let's wrap up?
<ogra_> and with these words ...
<seb128> have a good w.e everyone!
<xnox> ogra_: the spike can be anacronjobs.
<ogra_> heh, could we stop saying the same differently phrased all the time ? :)
<seb128> ogra_, ;-)
<ogra_> enjoy your weekend everybody
<ogra_> :P
<seb128> lol
<ogra_> bye all
<ogra_> 7me goes back to #ubuntu-arm
 * ptl apt-getting full-upgrading his nexus 7 and the other 5 arm devices
<tgm4883> whose running this show?
<bobweaaver> no I says this guy
<bobweaaver> not *
<CrestedNewt> ok
<CrestedNewt> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Fri Feb  8 18:03:00 2013 UTC.  The chair is CrestedNewt. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<CrestedNewt> evening all - how have we progressed this week?
<CrestedNewt> OK I will start then
<CrestedNewt> I was supposed to have a Google Hangout with Bobweaver last week but I have spent the time clearing my desk so that I can get a better grip on where we are
<CrestedNewt> I messed up and bobweaver and I are going to have a google hangout early next week
<bobweaaver> I am on live here atm http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0GJO_bCHDc    if you all have any question for me
<bobweaaver> tgm4883:  any work on scope ?
<tgm4883> I've done nothing more that make sure it builds on 12.04
<tgm4883> and it's in the PPA now
<tgm4883> soon, I'll probably write some instructions for people to use for testing
<bobweaaver> tgm4883:  I fixed the bug in previews so that it is launching using unity and not Qt anymore
<bobweaaver> added more previews
<tgm4883> bobweaaver, nice
<bobweaaver> torrents and news
<bobweaaver> news is cool torrents is nothing special
<bobweaaver> going to have to work on getting lens backported for testing with previews
<bobweaaver> I need to do a mass re-write of the word "preview" and change it so that lens can call but that is about it on my end
<CrestedNewt> OK so bobweaver - your work is almost done?
<bobweaaver> maybe we can talk about getting this done https://plus.google.com/u/0/104659991254860976283/posts/hu8MmEqvEnX
<bobweaaver> what are your thoughts ?
<tgm4883> bobweaaver, which parts?
<tgm4883> maybe we should go though each section of that for this meeting
<bobweaaver> any
<bobweaaver> ok
 * tgm4883 awaits CrestedNewt to do the topic stuff
<CrestedNewt> #topic Google+ Page
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Google+ Page
<CrestedNewt> OK - looks good
<tgm4883> lol
<tgm4883> CrestedNewt, how about A) Setting up a documentation session.
<CrestedNewt> OK, I'm all for doing some documentation. or do you mean #topic A) etc
<tgm4883> CrestedNewt, I mean for the topic
<CrestedNewt> #topic Setting up Documentation Settings
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Setting up Documentation Settings
<CrestedNewt> Done
<bobweaaver> I think htat I am talking away on youtube to thin air :P
<tgm4883> bobweaaver, probably
<CrestedNewt> put that ciggie out - it's bad for you
<tgm4883> So documentation wise, we need some decent docs on setup
<tgm4883> Does anyone want to lead that up?
<CrestedNewt> tgm4883 - I'll download the latest release and install in a VM and document
<tgm4883> CrestedNewt, all parts?
<CrestedNewt> why not
 * tgm4883 notes that includes Mythtv setup
<CrestedNewt> bobweaver - let me change RL room as wife is sitting next to me :D
<CrestedNewt> OK back - had to switch wireless
<CrestedNewt> I don't know enough about MythTV
<bobweaaver> tgm4883:  I will send you video link of this record so you can watch after work or whatever
<CrestedNewt> bobweaver - thanks
<CrestedNewt> ok - so the documentation is all over the place at the moment - it just needs to be correlated?
<tgm4883> Yes
<bobweaaver> so I am set with that docs that is dont know what else is needed to talk about maybe questions that you all might have
<bobweaaver> sorry this webchat thingy is messing up
<tgm4883> I'll write up some basic mythtv instructions and hopefully someone can go though them and see what is missing
<CrestedNewt> ok - I'm happy to pull that together and test it during an install
<CrestedNewt> that should highlight any bugs
<CrestedNewt> what is good bobweaver?
<tgm4883> so that probably covers A and B on that list
<CrestedNewt> sounds like it
<CrestedNewt> tgm4883 & bobweaver - could you tell me where you have the documentation so that I can start to pull it together
<tgm4883> I don't have much
<tgm4883> Moving on?
<CrestedNewt> just listening to bobweaver atm
<CrestedNewt> #action crestednewt - setup meeting with bobweaver
<meetingology> ACTION: crestednewt - setup meeting with bobweaver
<CrestedNewt> ok - I'm in the UK so you guys are like 6 & 7 hrs behind me
<bobweaaver> tgm4883: could you do this via google hangout with me if so what is the best time for you ?
<CrestedNewt> when are you free tgm4883?
<tgm4883> Not sure what we're talking about right now
<CrestedNewt> ok - bobweaver is talking on a youtube channel - makes it a bit hard to document but he is talking about a G+ Hangout between the 3 of us
<bobweaaver> we have to set a time to do this the meeting for the public
<tgm4883> CrestedNewt, right, for what reason?
<bobweaaver> to get the public involed
<bobweaaver> well more that is
<tgm4883> but what are we going to discuss?
<CrestedNewt> I think we need to get the installation adocumentation ironed out and fluid
<bobweaaver> like a basic setup and things to look out for when buying card ect
<CrestedNewt> I just need some guiding on that from both of you
<tgm4883> I'll try to get some information together for that
<bobweaaver> I am hoping by having this that we will not have to doc and the public will doc
<bobweaaver> mainly because of my learning disability
<CrestedNewt> that's why I am here - I can document into a wiki and then that can be updated
<bobweaaver> Like I could ask you a coupld of questions about myth how long you have been using it
<CrestedNewt> at least there will be a start point
<CrestedNewt> OK, so you want 30 minutes with tgm4883 about the video capture hardware
<CrestedNewt> for the public to be aware of what HW will work as a minimum
<bobweaaver> I would ask tgm4883  questio ns like D) How to prep a computer for Myth TV
<bobweaaver> what is good hardware ?
<bobweaaver> where to get help
<tgm4883> so for that, I'm going to documents a few tuners depending on your location/use case
<bobweaaver> how long you been using mythbuntu
<tgm4883> hardware wise, I'm going to leave minimum system requirements for bobweaaver to figure out
<tgm4883> bobweaaver, me?
<CrestedNewt> and this is to be recorded and put up on youtube?
<bobweaaver> y
 * tgm4883 is one of the founding developers of Mythbuntu
<bobweaaver> Live
<CrestedNewt> ok - so it is a living manual
<bobweaaver> people will be able to ask questions via chat
<tgm4883> My goal for the Mythtv documention is to end up with a "quick start guide", similar to what you get when buying a new computer/TV/stereo equipment
<bobweaaver> that is perfect
<bobweaaver> but whta is good time for you ?
<bobweaaver> weekends ?
<CrestedNewt> OK, I think I have a handle on this..... tgm4883 - yes with a link then back to the online for more advanced tasks?
<bobweaaver> will take 30 min tops
<tgm4883> bobweaaver, usually yes, but I'm going out of town this weekend
<CrestedNewt> tgm4883 - enjoy!! :D
<bobweaaver> yeah I amm also busy
<CrestedNewt> ok - what about Monday sometime?
<bobweaaver> maybe 2 weeks from now ?
<CrestedNewt> the problem with 2 weeks from now is it puts us a bit further back
<bobweaaver> anything but this weekend is good for me
<bobweaaver> meaning anything but thsi weekend
<CrestedNewt> lol @ bobweaver - got it mate
<tgm4883> anything during the week is going to mean really late for CrestedNewt
<CrestedNewt> well - I just need to drink less and stay up late :D
<bobweaaver> lol
<CrestedNewt> tgm4883 - I can do up to midnight UK time, which would mean 6pm East Coast time
<bobweaaver> We just have to have a date that way we can tell public the time and place ect
<tgm4883> We're getting to the end of our time, are there any community questions this session?
<CrestedNewt> #topic Q&A
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Q&A
<tgm4883> CrestedNewt, I couldn't do earlier than 9PM East coast time
<bobweaaver> all the things do not need to be done in one day though that would be good
<CrestedNewt> tgm4883 - ouch!! that may not work
<CrestedNewt> tgm4883 - will e-mail you later on some idea's
<bobweaaver> allright we got 10 min I say we go to questions unless there are none are there any Questions ?
<CrestedNewt> The floor is open - anyone have any questions for tgm4883 & bobweaver?
<CrestedNewt> no-one?
<bobweaaver> good less to do :)
<CrestedNewt> LOL!!!
<bobweaaver> I say that we are done  what about you all ?
<CrestedNewt> agreed
<CrestedNewt> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Feb  8 18:53:14 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-02-08-18.03.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-02-08-18.03.html
<bobweaaver> tgm4883:  get ahold of me after this week end I want to show you what I am doing with the previews
<tgm4883> ok
<bobweaaver> cya all have a good one
<CrestedNewt> cya
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-02-09
<tion_> chesse cam anyone?
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-02-10
<cjwelborn> i'm not a big IRC user, how can I filter out all these system msgs like "blah joined", "blah left", etc. ?
<cjwelborn> doh, wrong channel, sorry.
<Catbuntu> Hi
<sandyd> o/ coffeecat
<sandyd> and elfy
<Iowan> meeting time...
<elfy> we'll have a little wait and see if s.fox turns up
<elfy> beat me to the post there Iowan
<Catbuntu> What's the meeting about?
<Iowan> Forum Council monthly meeting
 * jacob dances
<jacob> (as is customary while waiting for meetings in #ubuntu-meeting)
<elfy> lol
<elfy> #startmeeting Forum Council monthly meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Sun Feb 10 19:12:12 2013 UTC.  The chair is elfy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Forum Council monthly meeting Meeting | Current topic:
<elfy> agenda at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncilAgenda
<elfy> #voters Iowan cariboo907 coffeecat elfy
<meetingology> Current voters: Iowan cariboo907 coffeecat elfy
<elfy> #topic minimal staff requirements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Forum Council monthly meeting Meeting | Current topic:  minimal staff requirements
<elfy> ok - think that's that done - so minimal staff requirements as per the discussion we've already had
<elfy> oh hang on :)
<elfy> #topic FC meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Forum Council monthly meeting Meeting | Current topic:  FC meeting
<elfy> #subtopic minimal staff requirements
<elfy> as far as I'm aware that's been discussed by staff - anyone want to add anything
<coffeecat> not really.
<cariboo907> I thinks it's been discussed enough
<Iowan> I just ran through a quick review
<coffeecat> I think we just need to vote it to make it "official"
 * elfy too
<elfy> Iowan: you ok with that?
<Iowan> ++++
<Iowan> Just waiting for ely to find the "vote" button.
<Iowan> *Elfy
<elfy> #vote Accept the minimal staff requirements as discussed in forum
<meetingology> Please vote on: Accept the minimal staff requirements as discussed in forum
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<elfy> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from elfy
<Iowan> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Iowan
<coffeecat> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from coffeecat
<cariboo907> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cariboo907
<elfy> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Accept the minimal staff requirements as discussed in forum
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<elfy> #subtopic Place for users to discuss Agenda Items
<Iowan> ... gotta go look...
<elfy> OK - so I'm off the opinion that we should provide a place on forum so users can have somewhere to discuss agenda items
<coffeecat> Perhaps a single sticky thread for each agenda item in FF&H, but it'll make the sticky area cluttered.
<cariboo907> +1, as usually all the links are to discussions in SCC
<elfy> Not sure of the detail - perhaps a stuck thread we can use to index threads in FFH then seperate threads
<elfy> how about that ^^ coffeecat ?
<coffeecat> elfy - that's better - 1 sticky linked to discussions threads.
<elfy> we can then link staff threads and user threads in agenda as well
<coffeecat> yes - that works for me
<cariboo907> That's what I 'd like to see
<elfy> seems logical
<Iowan> I'm unsure of details- hafta see it, I guess.
<Iowan> There is link to agenda - should dthat expand?
<elfy> not sure what you mean Iowan
<Iowan> Me either... I just noticed link in Ubuntu Community Discussions
<Iowan> That links to aenda wiki page
<Iowan> ... but you're talking FF&H link/sticky
<elfy> oic - no - we'd have a index stuck in FFH - then we can just use normal threads for users to actually discuss agenda items
<cariboo907> all the links in the agenda lead to SCC, we'd like the forum membership to be able to discuss agenda items
<elfy> as it is most of the links in agenda are only any good for staff
<elfy> cariboo907: thanks +1
<Iowan> FTR, an agenda  discussion area is a good idea
<elfy> ok
<elfy> vote then?
<coffeecat> yes
<cariboo907> yes
<Iowan> Yep - details tbd
<coffeecat> no - we have some details I think ^^^
<elfy> #vote Create stuck index in FFH then create threads as required for forum users to discuss items
<meetingology> Please vote on: Create stuck index in FFH then create threads as required for forum users to discuss items
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<Iowan> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Iowan
<cariboo907> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cariboo907
<elfy> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from elfy
<coffeecat> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from coffeecat
<elfy> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Create stuck index in FFH then create threads as required for forum users to discuss items
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<elfy> #subtopic Username Changes
<elfy> ok - I propose we formally stop the embargo on username changes
<elfy> allow one change of they want it
<elfy> see how it goes - if it's too much - then go back to not doing it
<Iowan> * with reason
<elfy> I'd not want to see us changing people more than once - enough reason for me :)
<coffeecat> Interesting request in RC which Iowan fielded. I agree with what Iowan said. We need to say to these people if we change your username to your real name, you are stuck with it.
<cariboo907> I don't have a problem with that, just so we don't have some members changing their user name, as often as they change their socks
<Iowan> (maybe more)
<elfy> cariboo907: we say at outset we'll not do it
<cariboo907> I know, this was just FTR :)
<coffeecat> we could rewrite the sticky.
<elfy> maybe change CoC
<elfy> coffeecat: at least that
<Iowan> I don't necessarily wanna forbid >1 change, but don't wanna advertise it.
<elfy> I'd rather say 1 now - rather than the piecemeal thing we have at present
<coffeecat> I agree - 1 change - that's it otherwise some would abuse it.
<coffeecat> So we could spell out - if you want a trivial change, that's it.
<elfy> I can agree to that
<Iowan> As currently, I'd opt for "special cases", but officially ...
<elfy> this is the problem
<Iowan> Even first change is subject to a "vanity clause"
<elfy> as it stands we've got threads where one says yes then 2 days later someone else says no
<cariboo907> Isn't that what most name changes are  for, vanity?
<elfy> one change should be enough imo
<elfy> cariboo907: +1
<elfy> I can't see any reason for more than one
<elfy> that's enough to warrant expecting someone else to take time out of their day to do it
<Iowan> I'm +1 on softening restriction - it's the degree that is in question
<Iowan> I don't necessarily wanna post a "First namechange free!" announcement, either
<elfy> well no - neither would I
<coffeecat> I don't think we have to - simply revamp the sticky
<Iowan> That part sounds good
<Iowan> (sneak up on it)
<coffeecat> And if people ask for trivial change or change to real name, ask: are you absolutely sure? Because when it's done, it's done.
<elfy> if it becomes too much of a problem - we just go back anyway, I don't think the sticky was the result of anything but a discussion elsewhere
<cariboo907> especially seeing as most members ignore the stickies :)
<elfy> lol
<coffeecat> lol
<Iowan> stickies? We have stickies?
 * coffeecat votes for post-dated stickies!
<elfy> :)
<elfy> so - do we have enough to work with, relax current state of name changes - ensure user knows they've got one bite, change back if it becomes necessary?
<coffeecat> I think we have enough - draft a sticky and agree text in ml perhaps.
<Iowan> +1 let's get rules softened - ali'l
<cariboo907> I'd say yes to that
<elfy> k
 * Iowan awaits vote
<elfy> #vote Relax username change rule, follow up in the future if necessary
<meetingology> Please vote on: Relax username change rule, follow up in the future if necessary
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<elfy> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from elfy
<Iowan> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Iowan
<cariboo907> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cariboo907
<coffeecat> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from coffeecat
<elfy> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Relax username change rule, follow up in the future if necessary
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<elfy> #subtopic Discussion on #ubuntuforums IRC channel moderation
<elfy> not sure Lord of Time is here to discuss this
<cariboo907> I have no opinion on this, as I don't spend enough time on IRC
<elfy> my opinion is there's not really any need to do anything - the few times it's a problem doesn't warrant any official response in my opinion
<coffeecat> I get the feeling that there is not much appetite for this beyond encouraging mods to hang out in #ubuntuforums and help if necessary
<coffeecat> It shouldn't be part of the "official" task
<coffeecat> imo
<elfy> agreed
<Iowan> If necessary, someone (CC?) may need to "hire" IRC moderators - as it isn't REALLY the forum
<elfy> I'm happy enough to shelve this - if lot want's to follow up he can
<Iowan> +1
<coffeecat> +1
<cariboo907> +1
<elfy> Iowan: up to a point I agree, the only real issue is we allow a certain amount of 'freeplay' there
<Iowan> table it!
<elfy> vote on doing nothing for the time being then :)
<coffeecat> lol
<jacob> fwiw, anyone with the ubuntu/member/* mask can op in #ubuntuforums
<elfy> jacob: thanks
<elfy> I think lol
 * elfy foresees madness 
<elfy> #vote Leave #ubuntuforums channel moderation for LoT to revisit if needed
<meetingology> Please vote on: Leave #ubuntuforums channel moderation for LoT to revisit if needed
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<elfy> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from elfy
<cariboo907> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cariboo907
<coffeecat> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from coffeecat
<Iowan> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Iowan
<elfy> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Leave #ubuntuforums channel moderation for LoT to revisit if needed
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<jacob> (actually, i might be wrong about the ubuntu/member thing, that used to be there, but isn't now)
<elfy> #subtopic Referral links on ubuntuforums
<Iowan> sure, NOW you mention it :)
<elfy> jacob: ok
<jacob> :D :D :D
<elfy> coffeecat can lead on this one :)
<coffeecat> OK - just getting my head round it.
<coffeecat> three bits: referral links in sigs, referral links from new members who have signed up to spam forum with link, and post links form extablished members. Is this a good way of dividing up the subject?
<coffeecat> #2 seems obvious.
<elfy> yea - logical to me
<elfy> and #2 is obvious
<cariboo907> works for me
<coffeecat> I'll say straight up I'm not comfortable with referral links in sigs even with estabished members.
<Iowan> sig links at least require 25 previous posts...
<Iowan> although that's more of a permanent as
<coffeecat> trouble with sig links is that they appear in every post - obvious I know - but it's spammy, imo
<Iowan> *ad
<cariboo907> we've had them as long as I've been a member of the forum
<Iowan> (We've had spammers, too ;)
<cariboo907> Ubuntu One now has referrals too
<Iowan> That's unfortunate, as it's officially sanctioned.
<Iowan> Kinda sets a precedent
<cariboo907> that's why I feel we should allow referral links in sigs, but ban someone that only joins to provide a link
<elfy> perhaps make it a perk if you've got as far as being registered users plus ...
<coffeecat> possibly not a precedent - Ubuntu1 on referrals says family and friends. I'll see if I can find link.
<cariboo907> that would work for me
<elfy> however
<elfy> I would not want to have hundreds of reports just to deal with sig links
<cariboo907> coffeecat, https://one.ubuntu.com/help/faq/referral-program-terms/
<coffeecat> https://one.ubuntu.com/help/faq/referral-program-terms/ - quite clearly family and friends so I don't think a precedent for forum.
<elfy> especially given "must not send any referral request in violation of applicable law (e.g. spam)"
<coffeecat> ok - it goes onto say publicly
<Iowan> CoC comes to mind...
<cariboo907> with the stipulation that you must disclose that you are getting extra storage, that may take more than 3 lines in a sig :)
<Iowan> Home pages can also be problems... but they, too, have been around longer than I have. (back on topic)
<elfy> horny subject this is turning into
<cariboo907> we may need to discuss this more, before voting on it
<elfy> yea
<cariboo907> I'd suggest we table it until our next meeting
<elfy> at least we can discuss parts further perhaps
<Iowan> +1 We'r into overtime
<coffeecat> +1 for more debate in SCC.
<elfy> ok
<elfy> #vote Referral links - table for further discussion
<meetingology> Please vote on: Referral links - table for further discussion
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<cariboo907> =1
<Iowan> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Iowan
<cariboo907> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cariboo907
<elfy> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from elfy
<coffeecat> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from coffeecat
<elfy> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Referral links - table for further discussion
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<elfy> #subtopic  Forum Upgrade
<elfy> this subject could take as long as the other 4 or 5 ...
<coffeecat> perhaps not...
<elfy> :)_
<elfy> first up is the proposed date
<elfy> at present we are hoping to do this at the end of February
<elfy> coffeecat: can you do the points - I've forgotten where we were with trying to drive the bot :|
<cariboo907> Is there anything that will stop this from happening?
<elfy> cariboo907: nothing major
<coffeecat> deej - one of the sysadmins - is seeing if IS can do 28th Feb (Thurs).
<cariboo907> aside from the user name location?
<coffeecat> 08:00 UTC start. Needs up to 8 hours....
<coffeecat> So hopefully done by 16:00 UTC on the Thurs.
<coffeecat> THen we start picking up the pieces. :/
<coffeecat> cariboo907, there are some usability issues still outstanding on staging, but no real show-stoppers...
<elfy> cariboo907 Iowan - the thinking being that if we try and do it UK time we havew 3/5ths of us about while it's going on
<coffeecat> If we wait till we've fixed them all, it'll be the turn of the next millenium...
<cariboo907> that worksd for me, as I'm at work during those hours, and off Friday, Saturday and most of Sunday
<coffeecat> cariboo907, that's great..
<elfy> excellent - so we'd have 4/5ths kind of about for the few days following
<coffeecat> apart from fidlling in admincp, we'll need people with experience of staging to help users in FF&H...
<Iowan> UK time makes sense
<elfy> coffeecat: +1
<Iowan> I'm gonna be climbing another learning curve, too.
<elfy> I would say that the most important decision we need to make is
<coffeecat> elfy - suggest we make another pleas to any modertaors here atm to get into staging and find their way around.
<elfy> do we hold back on the upgrade for 'little' issues - or deal with those after upgrade
<cariboo907> if they are 'little issues' I say lets do it
<Iowan> We've been waiting for these upgrades since...???
<elfy> cariboo907 Iowan - we have things like tags not showing in forum view without mouseover
<coffeecat> mark thread as solved not working....
<elfy> I say - go forward - deal with those things afterwards
<elfy> coffeecat: +1
<coffeecat> user profile in wrong place in posts....
<coffeecat> But none of these are showstoppers imo
<elfy> that seems to be the thing we are dealing with - are things mods to templates or addons
<jacob> does the main page still default to the activity view? (instead of the forum list)
<elfy> jacob: no
<jacob> elfy: good good, that was my only gripe :)
<elfy> jacob: if the last time you looked then it will look much different now :)
<jacob> editing my hosts file as we speak
<coffeecat> jacob - it looks like a usable forum now! ;-)
<jacob> or type
<Iowan> I presume these little issues will still be attacked - even if date is set...
<elfy> Iowan: yea - priorities
<coffeecat> Iowan - the way I see it is the little outstanding issues a re little different in kind from the sort of things we need to attend to week by week. The forum is always in flux.
<elfy> as and aside any ubuntu member who gained membership by way of forum activity is welcome to check out the staging forum - send a PM via forum to one of the admins
<jacob> ooh, that looks nice. some bits and bobs weird with the theme, but it's looking great otherwise
<cariboo907> I've had a couple of pm's from ubuntu members
<Iowan> coffeecat:  My point, exactly.
<elfy> jacob: the dots will change - hiccup I think :)
<elfy> cariboo907: yea - think I got about 6
 * coffeecat admits mea culpa on the dors. I pointed Merk at the wrong graphic. Sackcloth and ashes here.
<elfy> :D
<coffeecat> *dots*
<elfy> I wasn't pointing fingers coffeecat :)
<coffeecat> lol
<elfy> time moving on now - we were late and now at an hour :)
<coffeecat> elfy - I think wheels have been set in motion for 28th....
<elfy> coffeecat: I know deej was going to post to ticket re date after talking to IS
<cariboo907> do we need to vote on an official date to do the upgrade?
<Iowan> Does this item require anything official?
<elfy> coffeecat: do we wait for end of 11th - then post
<Iowan> (out-typed)
<coffeecat> I suggest we only need to vote if there is any objection to 28th...
<elfy> cariboo907 Iowan - I think we need to vote on a couple of things
<coffeecat> Of course we don't know yet whether IS can do the 28th
<elfy> date and moving anyway if the only things stopping upgrade are 'niggles'
<Iowan> k ??
<elfy> jono: you might want to look into the forum upgrade issues as well - being community manager ;)
<cariboo907> +1 on the date, and if there are only niggles, +1 too
<elfy> 2 votes or one?
<Iowan> 2
<elfy> ok
<Iowan> same answer, though
<elfy> #vote Approach IS to upgrade live forum on 28 Feb - starting aty 08:00UTC
<meetingology> Please vote on: Approach IS to upgrade live forum on 28 Feb - starting aty 08:00UTC
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<cariboo907> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cariboo907
<Iowan> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Iowan
<coffeecat> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from coffeecat
<elfy> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from elfy
<elfy> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Approach IS to upgrade live forum on 28 Feb - starting aty 08:00UTC
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<Iowan> Does that actually answer the wne vote?
<Iowan> *2nd
<elfy> #vote Upgrade forum to vB4 regardless of small theme/addon issues - further discussion in staff area if needed
<meetingology> Please vote on: Upgrade forum to vB4 regardless of small theme/addon issues - further discussion in staff area if needed
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<cariboo907> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cariboo907
<Iowan> +1
<coffeecat> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Iowan
<meetingology> +1 received from coffeecat
<elfy> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from elfy
<elfy> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Upgrade forum to vB4 regardless of small theme/addon issues - further discussion in staff area if needed
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<elfy> ok - I think the only things left are the division of labour/team report
<elfy> we can do those in admin channel or SCC imho
<coffeecat> +1
<Iowan> lets...
<cariboo907> +1
<elfy> Iowan: lets +1 ? or lets something else :)
<Iowan> didn't know it was a vote... OK +1
<elfy> it's not :p
<elfy> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Sun Feb 10 20:24:45 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-02-10-19.12.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-02-10-19.12.html
<Iowan> OK - lets do those in admin channel or SCC imho
<elfy> yep - that was my hope :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-02-03
* pratchett.freenode.net changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<infinity> o/
<mdeslaur> o/
<kees>      5
<kees>     o/
 * stgraber waves
 * slangasek waves
<infinity> Looks like everyone but pitti?
<infinity> #startmeeting Technical Board meeting
<teward> meetingology looks like it's down
<infinity> Indeed.
<slangasek> indeed
<infinity> Right, then.  We'll just pretend it's not.
<infinity> #topic Action review
<kees> http://i.imgur.com/CRIcP.gif
<infinity> Looks like we still have the "review MRE" thing on there, staring us in the face.
<infinity> kees: Did you get anywhere with that on your end?
<kees> nope!
<kees> haven't had any time to look at it :(
<infinity> Not having time seems to be going around lately.
<slangasek> when I have time, I'll invent a time machine
<mdeslaur> heh
<slangasek> is that a carry-over, then, or did we decide to declare review bankruptcy?
<infinity> Well, we still have an action for "kees to get a list of unused provisional Micro Release Exceptions"
<kees> right, I think that should still happen.
<infinity> If he'd prefer to not be on the hook for that, perhaps we need to spread the love, or decide a different path forward.
<slangasek> ok
<infinity> kees: Opinions?  If you're still okay with this being your task, I suspect we're all okay with not caring for another two weeks.
<kees> I'm okay keeping it
<infinity> Alrighty.
<infinity> #topic Scan the mailing list archive for anything we missed (standing item)
<infinity> Mailbag time.  Anything on anyone's radar?
<slangasek> list seems to have been quiet
<infinity> More importantly, things seem to have been dealt with on-list without needing meeting deliberation.
<infinity> So, yay for that.
<infinity> #topic Check up on community bugs (standing item)
<infinity> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bugs?field.assignee=techboard
<infinity> "There are currently no open bugs."
<infinity> Thanks, launchpad.
<infinity> So, before I go and select another chair and call this 10-minute meeting to a close...
<infinity> #topic AOB
<infinity> Anything anyone wants to bring up?
<slangasek> I wonder if we think more action is needed on the hibernate question to drive it to an actual resolution
<infinity> I'm not sure if any action is required from the TB there?
<infinity> Unless someone demands we enable it in the UI and we need to vote to (I suspect) squash that.
<slangasek> I'm also not sure, hence the question :)
<slangasek> if there's any action to be taken, I think it's to facilitate a dialog with the desktop team
<slangasek> but maybe that just needs to be a UDS session?
<infinity> The discussion seemed to peter out at a rough "we should fix the bugs with the implementation before discussing the dialog options" consensus?
<mdeslaur> seems reasonable to me
<kees> yeah
<slangasek> well, that was the position I advanced on the list, but there didn't seem to be anyone willing to do the fixing
<infinity> Sure.  If no one's willing to do the fixing, I think we don't have anything to discuss.
<slangasek> ok, fair enough
<infinity> Unless we need a formal statement that "no, until you prove it works and fix it where it doesn't, exposing it in the UI is a Bad Thing."
<slangasek> nah, not really what I'm going for
<infinity> Didn't think so.
<infinity> Anything else?
<infinity> Bueller?
<infinity> #topic Select a chair for the next meeting
<kees> is me, yes?
<infinity> According to C.infinity sorting on ~techboard/+members, the next chair is kees.
<kees> confirmed
<infinity> #endmeeting
<infinity> Short and sweet.  May all our meetings henceforth be so.
<slangasek> heh
<slangasek> thanks, guys :)
<mdeslaur> :)
<mdeslaur> thanks!
<kees> so say we all
<mdeslaur> so say we all
<infinity> Thanks, everyonw.
<infinity> e
<slangasek> kees: SG1+BSG -> cognitive dissonance
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-02-04
<ppisati> \o/
<ppisati> (just to mess up your schedule)
<cking> ppisati, you are keen
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Trusty
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Feb  4 17:00:05 2014 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<ppisati> o/
<cking> \o
<ogasawara> o/
<henrix> o/
<bjf> o/
<smb>  /o
<sforshee> o/
<apw> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> nothing new to report this week.
<ppisati> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/~canonical-kernel-distro-team/+upcomingwork
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-t/canonical-kernel-distro-team.html
<ogasawara> || apw       || core-1311-kernel                || 5 work items ||
<ogasawara> ||           || core-1311-cross-compilation     || 2 work items ||
<ogasawara> ||           || core-1311-hwe-plans             || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> || bjf       || core-1311-dmraid2mdadm          || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> || ogasawara || core-1311-kernel                || 3 work items ||
<ogasawara> ||           || client-1311-xorg-general        || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> || smb       || servercloud-1311-openstack-virt || 6 work items ||
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Trusty Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Trusty Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> We have uploaded a new 3.13.0-7.25 Trusty kernel to the archive.  This
<ogasawara> includes a rebase to the first v3.13.1 upstream stable release.  We have
<ogasawara> also merged the powerpc and lowlatency flavors back into our main repo.
<ogasawara> I would also like to note that the 12.04.4 release comes out this Thurs.
<ogasawara> This will officially introduce the Saucy hardware enablement kernel back
<ogasawara> into Precise.
<ogasawara> -----
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseSchedule
<ogasawara> Thurs Feb 20 - Feature Freeze (~2 weeks away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Feb 27 - Beta 1 (~3 weeks away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Mar 27 - Final Beta (~7 weeks away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Apr 03 - Kernel Freeze (~8 weeks away)
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule
<ogasawara> Thurs Feb 6 - 12.04.4 Final Release (~2 days away)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's
<jsalisbury> The current CVE status can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Saucy/Quantal/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/sconklin)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Saucy/Quantal/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/sconklin)
<bjf> Status for the main kernels, until today (Nov. 26):
<bjf>   *   Lucid - Testing
<bjf>   * Precise - Testing
<bjf>   * Quantal - Testing
<bjf>   *   Saucy - Testing
<bjf>  
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<bjf>  
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Feb  4 17:04:02 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-02-04-17.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-02-04-17.00.html
<kamal> thanks jsalisbury!
<apw> jsalisbury, thanks
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-02-06
<cjwatson> slangasek: I'm doing 12.04.4 right now - can I be excused from the meeting?  My report basically reads "* 12.04.4 * Miscellaneous transitions and stuff"
<slangasek> cjwatson: ok :)
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Feb  6 16:00:53 2014 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh bdmurray slangasek cjwatson xnox stokachu)
<slangasek> stgraber slangasek jodh stokachu cjwatson xnox barry bdmurray doko
<slangasek> stgraber: you first :)
<stgraber> Short week, was off on Monday.
<stgraber> Spent some time preparing/testing 12.04.4 (mostly for Edubuntu).
<stgraber> Working towards LXC beta4, ton of reviews, some discussions on fixing our logging story, some more bugfixes here and there, ...
<stgraber> Patch piloted yesterday.
<stgraber> Making slow progress on system-image, trying to get those tests done finally (found some more regressions), then have to add some features requested by ogra.
<stgraber> (DONE)
<xnox> oh, patch pilot, I think i had one last week, but obviously skipped.
<slangasek>  * spending a lot of time on customer engagements this week
<slangasek>  * finished the protobuf ABI transition
<slangasek>   * introduced a regression by merging a newer protobuf from Debian that broke ABI; thanks to cjwatson for cleaning up the mess
<slangasek>  * some timely NEW processing for packages needed at the cloud sprint
<slangasek> (done)
<jodh> * core-1311-upstart-roadmap
<jodh>   - async-spawn: Grinding through the test code and updating for new async
<jodh>     behaviour (necessitating porting most of the tests to use a proper
<jodh>     main loop).
<jodh>   - cgroup support: Updated spec, parser and parser tests after discussions with
<jodh>     stgraber on enhanced cgroup stanza syntax (see
<jodh>     http://upstart.ubuntu.com/wiki/Cgroup). Need to identify how best to
<jodh>     add handle adding cgroup paths to set of paths "owned" by Upstart
<jodh>     (either way, requires async branch).
<jodh> * upstart:
<jodh>   - reviewed https://code.launchpad.net/~cameronnemo/upstart/ipv6/+merge/204599
<jodh> â¿
<slangasek> stokachu: anything this week? :)
<slangasek> letting cjwatson off the hook for 12.04.4
<slangasek> xnox:
<xnox> * mostly catch up on everything from last week.
<xnox> * worked with barry/phonedations on getting py2/3 compatible runners:
<xnox>  - barry is doing the autopilot merge proposal
<xnox>  - i'm working with sergio on the phablet-test-run portion
<xnox> * fixed partman-btrfs failing to format btrfs volumes
<xnox> * tracking down 12.04.4 .0 stack bug which prevents automatic LUKS
<xnox>   encrypted installation for x/kubuntu, cryto-modules-3.2-udeb is missing
<xnox>   xts module, apw proposed a fix for that already.
<xnox> * worked with till, on cups socket activation, more work is needed to
<xnox>   get it properly working, see upstart bug report.
<xnox> * helped with some 12.04.4 iso testing and generated-signed wubi
<xnox>   build, also spotted that wubi builds were out of date, now fixed by
<xnox>   cjwatson.
<xnox> * helped smoser to fix overlayroot to work with cryptsetup from saucy
<xnox>   and newer, the change of "not including crypto modules by default"
<xnox>   resulted in regressing "covert launched cloud instance to
<xnox>   full-disk-encryption" with overlayroot. Fix is in overlayroot,
<xnox>   initramfs hooks configuration to export flag variable to force
<xnox>   crypto module inclusion.
<xnox> * uploaded all patches for "messages-less shutdown" into trusty. After
<xnox>   confirming successful testing from all of my systems and Timo's
<xnox>   systems (precise ones). If you see messages on shutdown on up to
<xnox>   date trusty let me know.
<xnox> * Investigating to drop gtk2 from ubuntu-touch images. (lol, yes...)
<xnox> * I'm taking next friday off, for a volleyball tournament.
<xnox> ..
<barry> xnox: what's the status of phablet-test-run?
<xnox> barry: there is a branch, it's partial and has a bug i and sergios need to work out.
<xnox> barry: "work in progress" =)
<barry> xnox: cool.
<slangasek> gtk2!
<barry> u-d-m/s-i debugging (bugs against u-d-m filed)
<xnox> barry: i'm hoping to get it done today.
<xnox> slangasek: tell me about it!
<xnox> =))))
<slangasek> +1 for dropping ;)
<barry> autopilot py3 porting; window-mocker py3 support; unity7 & unity8 autopilot testing.  fun fact: autopilot tests now seem to cpu peg X and make it totally unresponsive (will check again after dist-upgrade).
<barry> done
<xnox> slangasek: there is 56MB worth of cruft  to be dropped there.
<xnox> slangasek: unlike autopilot, which we like are actually using ;-)
 * slangasek nods
<barry> oh the above X problem is when `autopilot run autopilot` ;)
<slangasek> autopilot run autopilot?
<barry> slangasek: yes, run autopilot's own autopilot tests
<slangasek> strange
<slangasek> since autopilot isn't a gui
<slangasek> what do those do?
<barry> they test some basic functionality of autopilot, which is why we had to port window-mocker.  it's a sample app/framework that autopilot's own ap tests use
<slangasek> ah, ok
<slangasek> bdmurray:
<barry> i think the window-mocker port is largely done, but not yet landed
<bdmurray> submitted merge proposal for canonical-is-puppet to stop updating unique users for Raring
<bdmurray> setup and tested error tracker refusal of crash reports from Raring
<bdmurray> submitted rt regarding updating daisy to r407 and 408
<bdmurray> submitted rt regarding getting core dumps from the error tracker
<bdmurray> tested back population of rls:src_pkg:version counters
<bdmurray> wrote a cronjob to look for unsubbed packages being added to main
<bdmurray> fixed unattended-upgrades bug 1272381 regarding python3.4 build failure
<ubottu> bug 1272381 in unattended-upgrades (Ubuntu) "test failures with python 3.4" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1272381
<bdmurray> manually retraced some crash reports with core dumps from swift
<bdmurray> +1 maintenance work
<bdmurray> â doneâ
<slangasek> doko: here?
<doko> - sprint, and Fosdem
<doko> - openjdk-6 updates
<doko> - component mismatches, fix some ftbfs, MIRs
<doko> - look at test rebuild ftbfs, addressing the python 3.4 issues first
<doko> - if somebody has an idea for the ~200 php ftbfs, please let me know
<doko> (done)
<slangasek> ah, pointer to the php failures?
<doko> http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20140127-trusty.html
<doko> all of the form
<doko> dh build --buildsystem=phppear --with phppear
<doko>    dh_testdir -O--buildsystem=phppear
<doko>    dh_auto_configure -O--buildsystem=phppear
<doko>    dh_auto_build -O--buildsystem=phppear
<doko> PHP Notice:  Array to string conversion in /usr/share/php/PEAR.php on line 1053
<doko> [pear_error: message="Parsing of package.xml from file "/build/buildd/php-image-text-0.6.1/Image_Text-0.6.1/package.xml" failed" code=2 mode=return level=notice prefix="" info="Array"]
<slangasek> doko: what's an example of a php package on there?
<doko> dh_auto_build: /usr/share/pkg-php-tools/scripts/phppkginfo -d package . returned exit code 1
<doko> make: *** [build] Error 1
<doko> php-image-text
<slangasek> ok
 * xnox should probably update debhelper with support for a new stanza in $package.maintscripts i've seen a couple FTBFS due to that.
<slangasek> so I guess it'll be something simple, we just need to track down some bug in the phppear build system support
<slangasek> bdmurray: maybe you could take a look at that, under +1maint?
<bdmurray> slangasek: okay
<slangasek> bdmurray: thanks
<slangasek> anything else, status-wise?
<slangasek> xnox: are you getting useful feedback from the team wrt the emulator + autopilot?
<xnox> slangasek: i get reports from people, that it at times may fail to boot. But that appears to be a low percentage.
<xnox> slangasek: sdk team are integrating using ubuntu-emulator into sdk.
<slangasek> I bet that's the bug where the clock sometimes stops
<xnox> slangasek: and after the friday move of CI to phablet-test-run, it should be easier to integrate emulator into jenkins, then we will have more recorded attempts as to what's happening there.
<xnox> slangasek: could well be that.
<slangasek> any news on the android 4.4.2 rebase?  Phonedations seemed to think that would come together early this week
<ogra_> slangasek, waiting for Mir
 * slangasek is hoping 4.4 will fix the stopped-clock problem
<xnox> slangasek: i have 4.4 source code, but i didn't build / try emulator under it yet.
<xnox> (at scale)
<slangasek> ogra_: as in, Mir is ahead of it in the landing queue, or Mir needs some changes to work with 4.4?
<slangasek> well, we can take that up out of band
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else?
<slangasek> <crickets>
<slangasek> clearly everyone is still jet lagged ;)
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Feb  6 16:32:50 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-02-06-16.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-02-06-16.00.html
<slangasek> ok, thanks everyone :)
<jodh> thanks!
<xnox> ta!
<barry> thanks!
<stgraber> thanks!
<ogra_> slangasek, the latter, Mir hwcomposer support needs to land
<ogra_> slangasek, the 1.4 Mir that landed last night is already weeks old (as usual with Mir)
<slangasek> ok
<ogra_> once thats in autopilot needs fixing (i found today) it hardcodes the 4 arches we support and cant run on anything else
<pleia2> #startmeeting Community Council
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Feb  6 17:00:30 2014 UTC.  The chair is pleia2. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Community Council Meeting | Current topic:
<pleia2> #chair cprofitt elfy
<meetingology> Current chairs: cprofitt elfy pleia2
<cprofitt> thanks for getting us started pleia2
<pleia2> ok, who all is here for the CC meeting? :)
<cprofitt> here
<elfy> yep - here
<pleia2> ok, so today we have a check in with the forums team and translations team scheduled
<elfy> I believe translations sent apologies
<pleia2> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<pleia2> one person said she couldn't make it, no replies from anyone else :\
<elfy> yes
 * mhall119 is here for ~15 minutes
<pleia2> we'll do forums first then, see if we can round up some translations folks
<pleia2> #topic forums check in
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Community Council Meeting | Current topic: forums check in
<pleia2> any news, comments, questions or concerns from the forums at this time?
<elfy> Forum is good, we've had some issues with vB again - but IS have been extremely helpful
<pleia2> glad to hear it \o/
<elfy> only thing that we're likely to need help with is the voting for the staff issue you're aware of
<elfy> we're probably looking at doing similar to that which councils use for it - condorcet via launchpad
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> I'll have anohter look at the thread, I don't remember if you still need input from the cc
<elfy> not at the moment - once we've got a clearer plan we'll come back to the CC
<dholbach> o/
<dholbach> sorry, I'm a bit late
<cprofitt> sounds good.
<elfy> but we're looking to get it going sooner rather than later
<cprofitt> hey dholbach
<elfy> hi dholbach
<pleia2> great, thanks elfy
<elfy> the hardest bit for us will be the voting
<elfy> nothing else from FC
<pleia2> the CC has a script that yokozar improved that exports public email addresses from launchpad for use in condorcet, let us know and we'll send the link your way
<pleia2> (he said he'd publish it somewhere, need to follow up)
<pleia2> YokoZar: hey, did you publish that pull-emails-from-lp script somewhere public?
<elfy> yep - I knew who to talk to wabout that :)
<YokoZar> pleia2: no, but I can put it up on github today
<dholbach> I never checked in again.. is the forums council and the forums moderators situation resolved now?
<elfy> dholbach: which situation?
<elfy> the voting issue?
<dholbach> the FC was being restaffed recently, right?
<pleia2> YokoZar: thanks :)
<dholbach> is it fully staffed again?
<elfy> dholbach: yep
<pleia2> dholbach: this is for staff, not council
<dholbach> ah ok
<dholbach> thanks
<pleia2> alright, so it sounds like all is well in forums land, thanks elfy
<dholbach> perfect
<elfy> yep :)
<pleia2> no one here from the translations team, it would be good to still check in with them at a later date to make sure things are on track for the LTS
<mhall119> dpm: ^^
<mhall119> we'll see if his wifi is working
 * AlanBell has an AOB item for the end
<dpm> hey all, I happen to be here, so Mike asked me if I could participate
<dpm> I've not been working on translations for a while, so the status is not much different as last time:
<dpm> folks are rocking doing translations in LP as ever, but we still need a champion or a team to coordinate translations
<dholbach> dpm, are you aware of any issues the teams are currently facing? in terms of blockers?
<pleia2> dpm: do you know if the team has any plans to make this happen? and is it a blocker for a well-translated LTS?
<pleia2> the last time the translations folks came to us (late 2012) they were really struggling with knowing when translations opened, etc
<dpm> I think the main thing is that the team members have become busy with other things. We've had Pierre leading the team for a while, but I've not heard from him for a while
<dpm> the process of opening translations and managing translations in LP is documented in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuTranslationsCoordinators - but it's not very discoverable
<pleia2> good to know
<dpm> restaffing the lp:~ubuntu-translations-coordinators team might be a way to go forward
<pleia2> sounds like it might be worth having the CC nudge the coordinators (https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-translations-coordinators) again and see where things are
<pleia2> yeah
<pleia2> we'll be in touch then (you're the owner of that team)
<dpm> yeah
<dholbach> dpm, but in terms of technical blockers you have nothing on your radar?
<dpm> yes, I do have something
<dpm> language pack building has no owner, although I've seen uploads happening for trusty
<dholbach> dpm, has pitti been doing this up until now?
<dpm> dholbach, he was the owner until he moved from desktop to QA, which was a while ago
<dholbach> dpm, do you know who uploads the packages now?
<dpm> I don't know, but I can have a look at the latest upload, just a sec
<dholbach> ok... according to https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/language-pack-de-base/1:14.04+20131212 it's still pitti
<dpm> yeah
<dholbach> so is the team blocked on pitti getting around to it and pushing all the packages?
<dholbach> dpm, ^ do you know?
<dpm> dholbach, I think it's more no one assigned to do the work and pitti being awesome and picking the task as usual
<dholbach> yeah, that sounds very much like pitti :)
<pleia2> :)
<dholbach> is "pinging pitti" or "mail ubuntu-desktop@lists.u.c" inconvenient for the team and the task is sitting there for a while?
<dpm> It's a combination of the two things:
<dpm> the Ubuntu coordinators team not being active means no one has had the time to do the pinging or to find out who to ping. Also, for me personally I'm always concerned about loading him with more work.
<dholbach> sure :/
<dholbach> maybe the team would just need a calendar reminder for each of the freezes (or something), so they ping the ubuntu-desktop@ list
<dholbach> (or whatever's appropriate)
<dpm> I should really find some time to resolve this, but I think I've been promising that on every meeting I've been, sorry :(
<dpm> the calendar is a good idea, but first we'd need some restaffing, as the current members have all moved to other projects, real life has kicked in, etc.
<elfy> brb
<pleia2> ok, I'll take an action item to follow up with current folks and nudge some of the active members I know to get their thoughts
<pleia2> #action pleia2 to follow up with translations team about coordinator restaffing
<meetingology> ACTION: pleia2 to follow up with translations team about coordinator restaffing
<pleia2> thanks for joining us dpm
<YokoZar> Thank you
<dholbach> thanks pleia2
<pleia2> #topic Any other business
<dpm> no worries, thanks pleia2 and everyone
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Community Council Meeting | Current topic: Any other business
<elfy> back
<pleia2> AlanBell: you mentioned you had something
<AlanBell> yeah, hi all o/
 * hggdh waves
<AlanBell> so we have had an issue with the floodbots
 * pleia2 nods
<AlanBell> I did a summary of the situation to the lists here https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-irc/2014-February/001651.html
<AlanBell> basically they have been turned off and are not coming back
<AlanBell> they are proprietary code that does not give us software freedom, and without freedom zero we can't even run them
<pleia2> I agreed with hggdh's comment that it's not appropriate to use a proprietary tool for this anyway, so in spite of the unfortunate situation that caused them to be shut off, I think in general it's a move in the right direction
<mhall119> I'm also in agreement that rolling the necessary features into an existing opensource bot is the right direction
<dholbach> do you know if there's a free plugin that's available somewhere already (even if it doesn't have all the answers)?
<pleia2> dholbach: #2 on that summary seems closest
<AlanBell> there is a free software plugin for the accidental paste protection
<rww> dholbach: there are quite a lot of them
<dholbach> ah... I was wondering if you had a favourite already
<AlanBell> there is nothing for the rather cool stuff they do in terms of quarantining unregistered users and presenting captchas etc
<AlanBell> ubot-fr has one plugin, there is another supybot plugin on github that would be useable, pici has been implementing yet another one
<pleia2> as mhall119 said in the thread, perhaps #2 and work toward #3 by asking community members for coding help?
<dholbach> wow, it seems like it's all about choice
 * mhall119 again volunteers to help try and recruit community folks tohelp
<AlanBell> yeah, we have had a few volunteers which is great
<mhall119> ok, we gotta go eat before the food is all gone
<AlanBell> I think we really need to go with #2 and then address the other issues as they arise
<mhall119> AlanBell: you know where to find me anytime :)
<AlanBell> thanks mhall119
<YokoZar> Is it a matter of using what's there or does something new need to be written?
<AlanBell> for paste protection, using what is there
<hggdh> for advanced features, we would need to identify them first
<rww> hggdh: would it be useful for us to start a collaborative notepad (not sure which one we use these days) session to list those?
<AlanBell> well I kind of did identify them at a high level in the mail
<AlanBell> in fact . . . http://pad.ubuntu.com/2eBaBGbJyk
<hggdh> rww: so, there you go :-)
<hggdh> I like the idea, makes it more dynamic
<AlanBell> so, that is where we are, and roughly what we are doing about it, I mainly wanted to take advantage of the CC meeting today to let you all know what was going on
<pleia2> thanks AlanBell :)
<dholbach> thanks a lot for looking into this
<dholbach> the change might make things a bit hard for some time, but I'm quite sure you're doing the right thing :)
<pleia2> anyone else have anything before we wrap up?
<AlanBell> dholbach: yeah, like most proprietary code it is kind of convenient to use, but RMS tends to be right in the end :)
<YokoZar> Thank you
 * dholbach is all set
<pleia2> ok, thanks everyone
<pleia2> we have Xubuntu & Ubuntu Studio on the schedule for the meeting on the 20th
<pleia2> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Feb  6 17:47:57 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-02-06-17.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-02-06-17.00.html
<naudy> @BartOC3
<meetingology> naudy: Error: "BartOC3" is not a valid command.
<naudy> @BartOC3
<meetingology> naudy: Error: "BartOC3" is not a valid command.
<belkinsa> Please do, BartOC3.
<belkinsa> You can just do this and it should highlight this to them.
<s-fox> ping slickymaster , BartOC3 , belkinsa , elacheche_anis  - are you all ready for the meeting? :)
<belkinsa> I am.  And I have for weeks now.
<elacheche_anis> Yep s-fox :)
<BartOC3> yes s-fox
<belkinsa> I think you are missing one, s-fox.
<slickymaster> hi guys
<belkinsa> LuisCano and rhosigma
<slickymaster> sorry for being late
<belkinsa> Well, missing two rather.  ;)
<s-fox> slickymaster:  we're early.  i'm trying to find out who is here - we've got a few people tonight to do :)
<slickymaster> yes s-fox, the table is quite full :)
<s-fox> Just waiting for more of the board to make their presence known...
<knome> s-fox, somewhat unrelated, but what's the process nowadays; do you still have designated membership board members for each timeslot? if not, how's quorum handled?
<IdleOne> o/
<s-fox> knome:  we have 2 boards based on a time, rather than a time zone / continent
<Unit193> IdleOne: Well fancy meeting you here.
<s-fox> knome:  we try to get a quorum of at least 4 or 5 members
<IdleOne> Unit193: I travel in varied circles :)
<knome> s-fox, oki. can't see the who the boards consist of? :)
<knome> (just for... fun(?))
<IdleOne> !rmb
<ubottu> cjohnston, cyphermox, Destine, ejat,  hggdh, IdleOne, iulian, micahg,  Pendulum, PabloRubienes, freeflying, jared, amachu, and bkerensa. Meeting time.
<IdleOne> err not bkerensa
 * nlsthzn gets comfortable with some popcorn in hand
<knome> "not you!"
<s-fox> IdleOne:  that list seem out of date :/
<micahg-work> the IRC action needs updating..I wonder who can do that...
<elfy> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-membership-board/+members#active
<elfy> I'd hope
<knome> i can update the factoid.
<IdleOne> s-fox: indeed
<IdleOne> who do I remove/add?
<s-fox> iirc bkerensa is not on the board anymore.  i also seem to be missing
<s-fox> alright,  i'm going to start the meeting...
<IdleOne> ubottu: rmb is <reply> cjohnston, cyphermox, Destine, ejat,  hggdh, IdleOne, iulian, micahg,  Pendulum, PabloRubienes, freeflying, jared, s-fox and amachu. Meeting time.
<ubottu> But rmb already means something else!
<IdleOne> !no rmb is <reply> cjohnston, cyphermox, Destine, ejat,  hggdh, IdleOne, iulian, micahg,  Pendulum, PabloRubienes, freeflying, jared, s-fox and amachu. Meeting time.
<ubottu> I'll remember that IdleOne
<IdleOne> thank you
<IdleOne> good bot
<IdleOne> go go go
<s-fox> #startmeeting 2200 UTC Ubuntu Membership Board
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Feb  6 22:05:41 2014 UTC.  The chair is s-fox. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 2200 UTC Ubuntu Membership Board Meeting | Current topic:
<s-fox> Hello and welcome to the Ubuntu Membership Review Board for the 1200 UTC meeting for February 6, 2014.
<s-fox> oops, oh well...
<IdleOne> 2200UTC
<s-fox> i know :)
<s-fox> The wiki page for the Review Board is available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards
<s-fox> We will attempt to get through all of the applicants that have added themselves to that list before today's meeting. If we are unable to make it through the entire list due to time constraints, then at the next meeting we will pick up where we left off.
<s-fox> The format for the meeting is as follows: We will go through the list of applicants one by one, by date of application (FIFO).
<s-fox> Each applicant should introduce themselves (1-5 sentences) and provide links to their Ubuntu Wiki page. After the introduction the members of the Membership Review Board will review the pages and, if needed, ask the applicant further questions.
<s-fox> During this time it is encouraged for other members of the community to show their support for the applicant. Do not be alarmed if the members of the Membership Review Board are quiet during this time; they are most likely reading wiki/launchpad/forum/other pages and deciding how they are going to vote.
<s-fox> When the board is ready to vote, they will publicly vote in the channel with either +1, 0, or -1 (for membership, abstain, and against membership, respectively). If the sum of those numbers is positive, then the applicant is now an official Ubuntu member! (feel free congratulate them!)
<s-fox> #voters cjohnsto iulian IdleOne hggdh s-fox chilicuil
<meetingology> Warning: Nick not in channel: cjohnsto
<meetingology> Warning: Nick not in channel: iulian
<meetingology> Current voters: IdleOne chilicuil cjohnsto hggdh iulian s-fox
<s-fox> before i go further have i forgotten any of the board?
<micahg-work> o/
<knome> IdleOne, you seem to be missing chilicuil from the factoid
<Luiscano> Hello
<IdleOne> will fix that thank you
<knome> IdleOne, and it's PabloRubianes, not PabloRubienes :)
<s-fox> #voters cjohnston micahg-work
<meetingology> Current voters: IdleOne chilicuil cjohnsto cjohnston hggdh iulian micahg-work s-fox
<knome> (information provided by users themself via Launchpad)
<s-fox> alright. i think that is us all. i can add later if someone else comes along.
<s-fox> Now, without any further ado, lets get started with the first applicant...
<Luiscano> Mi wiki is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LuisCano
<IdleOne> err
<s-fox> slickymaster:
<belkinsa> You are not first, Luiscano.
<slickymaster> o/
<s-fox> Luiscano:  please wait your turn.
<IdleOne> Please wait for your name to be called :)
<belkinsa> Err, sorry.
<slickymaster> My name is David Pires, I am 45 years old, live in Porto, a fabulous city in the north of Portugal, and I work in a Portuguese government agency as a programmer, primarily in Java and SQL, since 1994.
<s-fox> #subtopic slickymaster
<slickymaster> ups
<slickymaster> s-fox, is it alright for me to start?
<s-fox> slickymaster: yes please!
<slickymaster> My name is David Pires, I am 45 years old, live in Porto, a city in the north of Portugal, and I work in a Portuguese government agency as a programmer, primarily in Java and SQL, since 1994.
<slickymaster> my launchpad id is https://launchpad.net/~slickymaster
<slickymaster> my wiki page is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/slickymaster
<slickymaster> I started using Linux by the time of Jaunty Jackalope release, in 2009, and since then I've tried several other Linux distributions such as Arch Linux, CentOS and Debian, but I always came back, one way or the other, to the one I feel more comfortable with, which is (X)Ubuntu
<slickymaster> is there any thing else you'd think it could be relevant?
<chilicuil> thanks for your good work on the qa team slickymaster, without looking deeper I think I'm ready to vote on this application
<s-fox> i've seen your activity on the forums,  especially in programming talk!
<s-fox> :)
<knome> slickymaster has been contributing lately to xubuntu in QA and documentation, and has been very helpful.
<slickymaster> that's a surprise s-fox
<Unit193> I highly support slickymaster's application for membership.  He's been a wonderful help to Xubuntu docs and QA, always willing and eager to help, be it writing testcases for QA, or entire new sections in the docs!
<knome> "lately" being... some time already :)
 * elfy only ever writes testimonials for people that deserve it, not much more I can say than what I already have, but it's the only time I remember actually turning up to a membership meeting for someone else
<belkinsa> slickymaster is also amazing member of NewDocs and aways works with the other members to get things done in the team and the project.
<knome> and yep, as i wrote in his wikipage, i will feel let down by the board if you don't approve him ;)
<elfy> I said similar :)
<knome> (well not as i wrote, but what i implied...)
<belkinsa> I support slickymaster app myself.
<Unit193> I didn't write on the wiki, but I was planning on it. >_>
<s-fox> alright... lets get on with it then! :)
 * slickymaster bows thankfully to all those kind words
<s-fox> #vote slickymaster obtain Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: slickymaster obtain Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<cjohnston> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cjohnston
<s-fox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from s-fox
<chilicuil> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from chilicuil
<micahg-work> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from micahg-work
<IdleOne> +1 keep up the good work slickymaster
<meetingology> +1 keep up the good work slickymaster received from IdleOne
<hggdh> +1 e obrigado por tudo!
<meetingology> +1 e obrigado por tudo! received from hggdh
<s-fox> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: slickymaster obtain Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Votes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<s-fox> Congrats :)
<IdleOne> Congrats!
<slickymaster> hey eu Ã© que agradeÃ§o hggdh
<s-fox> really well deserved
<nlsthzn> whoohoo grats :)
<knome> congrats slickymaster!
<slickymaster> thanks guys
<hggdh> slickymaster: pois Ã© meu prazer!
<belkinsa> Congratz slickymaster!!!
<slickymaster> knome, :)
<Unit193> slickymaster: Congrats!
<elfy> slickymaster: congrats :)
<howefield> congrats slickymaster :)
<Unit193> Well deserved.
<slickymaster> thakn you all, guys
<s-fox> is next BartOC3 :)
<slickymaster> s/thakn/thanks
<s-fox> #subtopic BartOC3
<BartOC3> My Name is Jose Ahumada, known as BartOC3, member Ubuntu Colombia and council, Right now I'm involved in a project of education with free and open source software , in educational institutions under resources in Cartagena, Colombia.
<BartOC3> my launchpad id is https://launchpad.net/~bartoc
<BartOC3> my wiki page is  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/kcbart
<BartOC3> I have been supporting the project # StartUbuntu and implemented in several local schools. At this moment I am involved as organizer of the 2014 UbuConLA to be performed in Cartagena, Colombia
<s-fox> BartOC3:  i see you do a lot of speaking for ubuntu, what would you like to see happen with the project in future?
<s-fox> #voters Pendulum
<meetingology> Current voters: IdleOne Pendulum chilicuil cjohnsto cjohnston hggdh iulian micahg-work s-fox
<BartOC3> That people of my region conoscan more to this project
<chilicuil> BartOC3: if you've problems to talk in english, feel free to speak in spanish and I'll translate
<s-fox> okay, well i am ready to vote
<s-fox> oh that is a good point, thanks chilicuil
<BartOC3> Un poco.. bueno pienso que ubuntu como s.o tiene gran potencial y las personas no lo han conocido a fondo. Por eso he empezado con las escuelas las cuales es parte de la educacion de toda persona.
<chilicuil> translating.., well, I think Ubuntu has a great potential and people really haven't get to know it, that's why I've started with schools, which are a good part of the education of every person
<IdleOne> listo para votar
<s-fox> thanks chilicuil for the translation :)
<hggdh> I have no questions ;-)
<s-fox> #vote BartOC3 to obtain Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: BartOC3 to obtain Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<cjohnston> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cjohnston
<hggdh> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from hggdh
<s-fox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from s-fox
<IdleOne> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from IdleOne
<Pendulum> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Pendulum
<chilicuil> +1, good luck with the UbuConLA ;)
<meetingology> +1, good luck with the UbuConLA ;) received from chilicuil
<micahg-work> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from micahg-work
<s-fox> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: BartOC3 to obtain Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Votes for:7 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<IdleOne> Congratulations BartOC3
<s-fox> congreats
<BartOC3> thanks
<s-fox> and also congrats
<Pendulum> Congrats BartOC3!
<s-fox> lol
<elacheche_anis> Congrats BartOC3 :)
<hggdh> BartOC3: bienvenido!
<belkinsa> Congratz!
<howefield> congrats BartOC3
<BartOC3> NOs vemos en la UbuConLA
<nlsthzn> grats :)
<s-fox> #subtopic LuisCano
<s-fox> Luiscano:  are you still here?  please introduce yourself! :)
<slickymaster> congrats BartOC3
<Luiscano> Yes
<Luiscano> My name is luis cano,
<Luiscano> My wiki https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LuisCano
<Luiscano> https://launchpad.net/~luiscano
<Luiscano>  I am system eng.
<Luiscano> Member of community de colombia
<Luiscano> I am organizer of events as flisol,sfd and others
<s-fox> Luiscano:  What is your role in Ubuntu Colombia ? :)
<Luiscano> I am teacher and operative systems at the universities
<Luiscano> I am promote ubuntu, organizer events of free software
<Luiscano> I know ubuntu about 2004, and a pionner of this distro in colombia
<hggdh> Luiscano: you do realise that we look for Ubuntu activities, do you not?
<Pendulum> Luiscano: Can you talk about any Ubuntu specific things you do?
<Luiscano> Install, configurations, support, virtualization
<Pendulum> Have you been involved in any Ubuntu Co events?
<Luiscano> And capacite persorns about of this distro
<Luiscano> Yes
<chilicuil> Luiscano: feel free to speak in spanish if English is a barrier, and I'll translate =), sientete libre de hablar en espaÃ±ol si el ingles es un problema o para expander tus preguntas ;)
<Luiscano> I am leader and organizar
<Luiscano> Jajaja, es que estoy en un reunion ahorita
<chilicuil> Luiscano: necesitamos que puedas comprobar actividades especificas con Ubuntu, si estas ocupado, podemos regresar contigo al final ;)
<Luiscano> Dentro de la comunidad, he realizado varias activiad
<Luiscano> Ya listo, ya me desocupe
<Luiscano> Tengo varias, organizador del htpp://sfdbogota.info
<Luiscano> Y en otras ciudade
<Luiscano> S de colombia como ibague,espinal y girardot
<Luiscano> Conformacion de grupos de estudio
<Luiscano> Y nuevas comunidades en distintos sectores
<chilicuil> translating, I've organized several activities on the Ubuntu community, many of them are available at htpp://sfdbogota.info, I've organized most of them in Colombia, in cities such as ibague,espinal y girardot
<Luiscano> Del pais
<Luiscano> Organizador, de flisoles en ibague
<chilicuil> Luiscano: I've seen your last activities were from 2012, does it means you're slowing down your contributions? #he visto que las ultimas reuniones que has organizado son del 2012, esto significa que tus contribuciones iran en descenso?
<Luiscano> Organizo eventos en distintas universidades, soy conferencista. Y tallerista en eventos. Incluyendo campus party
<hggdh> para el UBuntu?
 * hggdh apologises for any bad Spanish
<Luiscano> En el sitio del canal de youtube de campus party encuentran varias de mis conferencias en donde hago conocer a la comunidad. Ubuntu
<chilicuil> Luiscano: la membresia para Ubuntu, require trabajo especifico en Ubuntu, no solo con software libre, podrÃ­as detallar un poco mÃ¡s ese aspecto? #Ubuntu membership requires Ubuntu specific contributions, could you give us more detailed information about your contributions?
<Luiscano> Actualemte en bogota, soy docente de un diplomado en http://www.bogota.gov.co/content/abierta-convocatoria-para-diplomado-de-software-libre-para-el-emprendimiento
<Luiscano> En donde estamos capacitando a chicos que nunca han incursionado en el software libre
<Luiscano> En la ciudadde bogota, y que sirva para generar empresa y emprendimiento
<Luiscano> Las distribuicion que se dicta actualmentees ubuntu 13.10
<Luiscano> Y poder ayudar a ayudar a reducirbrecha digital
<Luiscano> En el diplomado
<chilicuil> currently, I'm a giving courses at //www.bogota.gov.co/content/abierta-convocatoria-para-diplomado-de-software-libre-para-el-emprendimiento, we're getting to know FOSS to people who has never get it touch with it, it's happening in Bogota, our hope is that it helps to seed bussiness and entrepreneurship
<chilicuil> we're giving these courses in Ubuntu 13.10
<Luiscano> Y tambien la version 12.10 lts
<micahg-work> 12.10 isn't an LTS, 12.04 is
<Luiscano> Me equivoque, 12.04 lts
<IdleOne> SergioMeneses: welcome :)
<chilicuil> Luiscano: creemos que por el momento puedes mejorar tus contribuciones a Ubuntu, y que podrÃ­as traer a la junta a miembros reconocidos como SergioMeneses para brindarnos de ejemplos donde tus contribuciones hayan sido excepcionales en Ubuntu #We think you could improve your Ubuntu contributions and get back with some recognized ubuntu members such as SergioMeneses in order to give us detailed examples about your Ubuntu contributions
<Luiscano> No se que mas cosas quiere que les explique?
 * SergioMeneses say hi to everybody
<belkinsa> Hey SergioMeneses.
<IdleOne> SergioMeneses: is there anything you can add to Luiscano application that would be specific contributions to Ubuntu?
<Luiscano> Pues ya que sergio meneses llego, el puede hablar sobre lo quehe hecho y como he contribuido y apoyado a ala comunidad
<Luiscano> Ubuntu
<hggdh> lifeless: Ubuntu membership requires sustained and significat contributions to *Ubuntu*
<chilicuil> translating.., I'm not sure what else do you need to know, btw, now that SergioMeneses is here he could speak a little bit more about my contributions
<cjohnston> hggdh: wrong l<tab>?
<Luiscano> Y las contribuciones que he hecho
<lifeless> hggdh: yes?
<IdleOne> lifeless: it was a mistab
<SergioMeneses> chilicuil, belkinsa IdleOne I have to say something about Luiscano
<SergioMeneses> ?
<IdleOne> sorry for the bother :)
<lifeless> IdleOne: ah, heh. np.
<chilicuil> SergioMeneses: please go ahead
<IdleOne> SergioMeneses: please do
<hggdh> lifeless: I am very sorry, mistabbed
<SergioMeneses> he is a good guy and an amazing member of our community
<IdleOne> SergioMeneses: Do you feel that his contributions have been specific enough to Ubuntu ?
<micahg-work> SergioMeneses, can you please speak to his current contributions to the Ubuntu community?
<SergioMeneses> IdleOne, maybe in the community field
<SergioMeneses> micahg-work, right now he is helping to the new members of ubuntu-co to get more knowledge about ubuntu in general
<SergioMeneses> but I dont know if he is working on some project
<SergioMeneses> with ubuntu of course
<SergioMeneses> I will say he might be a good ubuntu member
<SergioMeneses> but as always the choose is yours
<SergioMeneses> :)
<IdleOne> Thak you
<IdleOne> thank*
<s-fox> We are ready to vote.
<SergioMeneses> IdleOne, np
<s-fox> #vote Luiscano to obtain Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: Luiscano to obtain Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<cjohnston> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from cjohnston
<s-fox> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from s-fox
<IdleOne> +0 for now. I would like to see more Ubuntu specific contributions.
<meetingology> +0 for now. I would like to see more Ubuntu specific contributions. received from IdleOne
<chilicuil> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from chilicuil
<Pendulum> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from Pendulum
<s-fox> i would like to see more ubuntu specific contributions and an updated wiki page.
<s-fox> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Luiscano to obtain Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Votes for:0 Votes against:1 Abstentions:4
<meetingology> Motion denied
<s-fox> Sorry Luiscano
<belkinsa> Good try, Luiscano.
<Luiscano> Omg, y porque?
<IdleOne> Luiscano: You do a lot of good work for the FOSS community in general but Ubuntu membership requires some more Ubuntu specific work. Please continue your good work and I hope to see you reapply in the future
<Pendulum> Sorry Luiscano, we'd love to see you back with some more specific to Ubuntu work and an updated wiki page.
<chilicuil> Luiscano: traduciendo del UMB: haces un excelente trabajo con la comunidad de software libre en general, pero la membresia de Ubuntu, requiere mas trabajo en Ubuntu en si mismo, por favor continua trabajando y estares felices de volver a revisar tu aplicacion en el futuro
<chilicuil> Luiscano: por el momento continuaremos con la junta, si tienes otras dudas, puedes traerlas al final de la sesion ;)
<s-fox> #subtopic belkinsa
<belkinsa> Ready
<cjohnston> can we vote?
<s-fox> hey belkinsa  :)
<s-fox> please introduce yourself
<belkinsa> I will give you the links to my LaunchPad profile: https://launchpad.net/~belkinsa and my wiki User Page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/belkinsa first before introducing myself.
 * cjohnston tried
<belkinsa> I am Svetlana Belkin and I am an active person in the Ubuntu Community.  Most of my work deals with helping others to get involved with the Ubuntu Community- men and women, alike- in order for the Community to grow.  One example is Ubuntu Women and my work on improving the "Get Involved!" page and collecting stories from other members of the team in order to inspire others.  I am also trying to get Ubuntu Ohio, the LoCo that I am in, mor
<belkinsa> e connected.
<belkinsa> There, everything is said about me.
<belkinsa> I came prepared for this.
<s-fox> is anyone here in support of belkinsa ? :)
<bkerensa> I just want to quickly add my support and +1 for belkinsa's application her work has been amazing
<knome> yes!
<slickymaster-wor> me also
<jrgifford> I highly recommend belkinsa for her work in the Ohio LoCo.
<knome> +1 from me, belkinsa is very helpful on docs.
<s-fox> oh my oh my hehe
<belkinsa> bkerensa is for the doc team.
<s-fox> #vote belkinsa to obtain Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: belkinsa to obtain Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<s-fox> +1 , no doubt
<meetingology> +1 , no doubt received from s-fox
<slickymaster-wor> +1 from we, she has proved herself as a fabulous member of the NewDocs team
<Pendulum> +1 you've done excellent work :)
<meetingology> +1 you've done excellent work :) received from Pendulum
<cjohnston> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cjohnston
<micahg-work> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from micahg-work
<chilicuil> +1, keep up the good work, the doc team needs lots of love =)
<meetingology> +1, keep up the good work, the doc team needs lots of love =) received from chilicuil
<s-fox> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: belkinsa to obtain Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<knome> slickymaster-wor, you can't vote though ;)
<s-fox> Congrats!
<s-fox> :D
<elacheche_anis> Congrats belkinsa :)
<knome> congrats belkinsa
<jrgifford> Congrats!!
<belkinsa> Thank you everyone for the support and thank you Membership Board for this.
<Pendulum> belkinsa: congrats and welcome!
 * belkinsa bows
<slickymaster-wor> I know, knome, just as a support
<s-fox> #subtopic elacheche_anis
<knome> :)
<elacheche_anis> hey :)
<s-fox> elacheche_anis: are you here? please introduce yourself
<s-fox> :D
<elacheche_anis> I'm Anis a Junior SysAdmin from TUNISIA, a GNU/Linux & Ubuntu user since 2007. I joined Ubuntu-tn after a year as regular member.. And now I'm a Management Commitee Member as the coodinator of the Events Team(Since 3 years)..
<elacheche_anis> My wiki is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/elacheche & my LP is https://launchpad.net/~elacheche
<elacheche_anis> unfortunately (for me) most of my LoCo active members are not online tonight, there is only LunaPersa I think x) :/ but you can find there Tetimonials in my wiki any way :) x)
<elacheche_anis> Any questions? :)
<IdleOne> belkinsa: I was reading and didn't get a chance to vote in time. but +1 from me too and congrats
<belkinsa> It's cool and thank you, IdleOne.
<lunapersa> hello i'm ubuntu-tn  MC member  i'm here to support  elacheche_anis
<s-fox> elacheche_anis:  what ubuntu-tn events are you coordinating in 2014?
<chilicuil> elacheche_anis: what do you mean by administrator of the ubuntu-tn-users team, tn users cannot join the ubuntu-tn directly?, why do you require a separated team?
<elacheche_anis> For now we're preparing an Ubuntu Touch Dev event..  It'll be maybe for the next month.. Will do it with a FOSS association and 2 univercities clubs
<elacheche_anis> And we're preparing the UGH14.04
<elacheche_anis> chilicuil, our ML is managed by the LP group.. There is many spams so we need to monitor the ML
<elacheche_anis> The MC members monitor the ML membership using LP
<s-fox> Time to vote :)
<s-fox> #vote elacheche_anis for Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: elacheche_anis for Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<IdleOne> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from IdleOne
<hggdh> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from hggdh
<s-fox> +1 yes
<meetingology> +1 yes received from s-fox
<micahg-work> +1
<cjohnston> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from micahg-work
<meetingology> +1 received from cjohnston
<Pendulum> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Pendulum
<chilicuil> +1, keep up the good work!
<meetingology> +1, keep up the good work! received from chilicuil
<s-fox> #endvote :)
<meetingology> Voting ended on: elacheche_anis for Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Votes for:7 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<elacheche_anis> Awesome :D Thx guys :)
<s-fox> Congrats!
<IdleOne> Congrats elacheche_anis
<lunapersa> congrats elacheche_anis
<elacheche_anis> Thx guys :)
<lunapersa> :D :D
<belkinsa> Congtaz.
<hggdh> elacheche_anis: you are very welcome
<elacheche_anis> :)
<Pendulum> elacheche_anis: congrats!
<s-fox> alright, that is it. Thanks everyone for coming and congrats to all who were approved !
<lunapersa> :)
<s-fox> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Feb  6 23:11:43 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-02-06-22.05.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-02-06-22.05.html
<slickymaster-wor> thanks s-fox
<elacheche_anis> Thx @All :) Have a good night :)
<micahg-work> thanks s-fox
<hggdh> thanks s-fox :-)
<IdleOne> thank you
<belkinsa> Thank you everyone.
<slickymaster-wor> obrigado hggdh
<slickymaster-wor> thanks IdleOne
<hggdh> slickymaster-wor: sempre um prazer em ver mais portugueses por cÃ¡ :-)
<belkinsa> What happened to that first applicatant?
<s-fox> did not come to the meeting
<belkinsa> Ah
<s-fox> Goodnight everyone.
<belkinsa> Night.
<slickymaster-wor> hggdh, Ã© verdade
<elacheche_anis> nizarus, you're late :p :D
<JHOSMAN> Hello!
<hggdh> JHOSMAN: I am sorry, but you are late for the Membership Board meeting. It has already ended
<JHOSMAN> hggdh: I was busy and I ended up agreeing, who were approved?
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-02-07
<AlanBell> meetingology is a little bit sick right now after a minor update, hopefully will be fixed soonish
<meetingology> AlanBell: Error: "is" is not a valid command.
<AlanBell> sick, but not dead yet
<AlanBell> ok, meetingology is fixed now
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-02-02
<xnox> hello =)
<xnox> all the good people are not here =)
<Mikaela> this channel is usually more active doring meetings (first link in topic)
<tyhicks> hello
<jjohansen> hi
<tyhicks> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Feb  2 16:32:28 2015 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<mdeslaur> \o
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<tyhicks> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm doing regular CVE updates
<mdeslaur> 'm on community this week
<mdeslaur> and I have patch piloting tomorrow
<mdeslaur> that's it from me, sbeattie
<sbeattie> I'm still working on the binutils update; it got even more complex than I expected, as it looks like there were additional issues fixed upstream that didn't get CVEs assigned.
<sbeattie> after that, I'm back to gcc and some apparmor review.
<sbeattie> that's pretty much it for me. tyhicks?
<tyhicks> my status looks similar to last week but I have made progress on most of the things
<tyhicks> I've found the root cause of the AppArmor dbus-daemon bug (LP: #1362469)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1362469 in dbus (Ubuntu) "AppArmor unrequested reply protection generates unallowable denials" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1362469
<jjohansen> oh nice
<tyhicks> I need to discuss the potential fixes with the rest of the AA devs and decide on what we want to do
<tyhicks> I still need to propose v2 of the libapparmor aa_features API
<tyhicks> I want to do that early this week
<tyhicks> The patch security updates are ready to go out as soon as I track down a new test failure on lucid
<tyhicks> and then I hope to get a little work done on the User Data Encryption work items
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> I don't see sarnold
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> so I will be discussing v2 libapparmor aa_features API, and dbus :)
<tyhicks> :)
<sbeattie> hehe
<jjohansen> I have to get a second revision of the patch for the deleted socket mediation for a bug that's number is saddly going to take more digging than I am going to spend time on right now (sorry I thought I had it open)
<jjohansen> there will be some USNs as the kernel cycle finishes up and the next one starts
<jjohansen> and I will be doing work on the kernel code for upstreaming
<jjohansen> thats it, I don't see sarnold so back to tyhicks
<tyhicks> jjohansen: shoot me that bug number when you find it later (I'm not sure which bug that is)
<jjohansen> tyhicks: already looking
<tyhicks> ok
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/9base.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/linkchecker.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libplack-perl.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gcc-4.5-armhf-cross.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/lightdm-gtk-greeter.html
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<tyhicks> mdeslaur, sbeattie, jjohansen: thanks!
<tyhicks> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Feb  2 16:46:25 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-02-02-16.32.moin.txt
<jjohansen> thanks tyhicks
<mdeslaur> thanks ty
<mdeslaur> thanks tyhicks
<sbeattie> tyhicks: thanks!
<micahg> hi to anyone here for the DMB meeting, it's been canceled since both our applicant and many members are involved in a sprint, next meeting will be Monday February 16th, 2015 15:00 UTC
 * bdrung is here.
<micahg> bdrung: see above, meeting was cancelled
<bdrung> micahg: yes
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-02-03
<beisner> o/ hi all.  server team mtg time.   will wait a sec for o/
<rbasak> o/
<coreycb> o/
<gnuoy> o/
<kickinz1> o/
<beisner> and, go!
<beisner> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Feb  3 16:02:08 2015 UTC.  The chair is beisner. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<beisner> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<caribou> o/
<matsubara> o/
<beisner> hi everybody!
<beisner> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<arges> o/
<beisner> gaughen to establish new qa-team point of contact for server team -- gaughen and beisner discussing.
<beisner> ^ gaughen is at a sprint, may not have an update this wk on that to-do.
<beisner> i think that is the only action item from last week
<beisner> jump in if anyone has anything to add at any point.
<beisner> #topic Vivid Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Vivid Development
<beisner> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VividVervet/ReleaseSchedule
<beisner> Vivid feature freeze Feb 19, also deb import freeze.
<beisner> #subtopic Release Bugs
<beisner> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-v-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<beisner> let's look at some bugs
<beisner> looks like we needs some assignees  ;-)
<beisner> smoser, anything to add re: http://launchpad.net/bugs/1387340
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1387340 in cloud-init (Ubuntu Vivid) "'output' directive not honored (/var/log/cloud-init-output.log missing)" [High,Confirmed]
<beisner> ?
<smoser> that'll be fixed in ext vivid upload. i really need to get one .
<smoser> so definitely triaged.
<beisner> ok great, can you mark U & V triaged on that bug?
<beisner> also, anything on https://bugs.launchpad.net/cloud-init/+bug/1404311 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1404311 in cloud-init (Ubuntu Vivid) "gce metadata api doesn't properly stream binary data" [High,Confirmed]
<beisner> next:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1409639
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1409639 in juju-core (Ubuntu Vivid) "juju needs to support systemd for >= vivid" [High,Triaged]
<beisner> ^ looks like it's a push for juju-core systemd by feature freeze
<beisner> no news on the openvpn bug.  anyone linked to that one?  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openvpn/+bug/1385851
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1385851 in openvpn (Ubuntu Vivid) "OpenVPN only supports TLS v1.0" [Medium,Confirmed]
<beisner> looks like heat fix is committed.   https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/heat/+bug/1328315
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1328315 in heat (Ubuntu Utopic) "debian/heat-common.postinst uses getenv instead of getent" [Medium,Triaged]
<beisner> ok, next up.
<beisner> #subtopic Blueprints
<beisner> #link http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-v/group/topic-v-server.html
<beisner> #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/topic-v-server
<beisner> i think everyone knows where they are.  lots to do yet this cycle.   won't dwell on that!
<beisner> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<caribou> beisner: I'm good, nothing on my side
<beisner> hi caribou, great.   thanks!
<beisner> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa)
<beisner> psivaa is off the hook unless he just wants to say HI
<beisner> still reviewing existing test runs, and awaiting resolution of the rep to-do thing.
<beisner> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
<smb> Nothing to report I have.
<beisner> :-)
<beisner> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<beisner> anything fun and exciting to report coming up?
<beisner> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<beisner> Wow so X just froze so I'm coming to you now from my phone.
<beisner> #topic Announce next mtg
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next mtg
<beisner> Same time same place +1wk.
 * beisner gives his machine a 3 finger salute.
<beisner> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Feb  3 16:18:40 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-02-03-16.02.moin.txt
<gnuoy> thanks beisner
<rbasak> Thanks beisner!
<caribou> beisner: thanks!
<beisner> Thanks everyone!
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Feb  3 17:00:07 2015 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Vivid
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<smb> o/
<kamal> o/
<sforshee> o/
<ppisati> o/
<_bjf> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Vivid Development Kernel (jsalisbury for ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Vivid Development Kernel (jsalisbury for ogasawara)
<jsalisbury> Our Vivid kernel has been rebased to the v3.18.4 upstream stable.  It's
<jsalisbury> been  uploaded to the archive, 3.18.0-12.13.  Please test and let us
<jsalisbury> know your results.  We will be rebasing to v3.18.5 shortly and uploading
<jsalisbury> as well.  We'll also be rebasing our unstable branch to v3.19-rc7 and will
<jsalisbury> upload to our ckt PPA shortly.
<jsalisbury> -----
<jsalisbury> Important upcoming dates:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VividVervet/ReleaseSchedule
<jsalisbury> Thurs Feb 5 - 14.04.2 Point Release (~2 days away)
<jsalisbury> Thurs Feb 26 - Beta 1 Freeze (~3 weeks away)
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's
<jsalisbury> The current CVE status can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Utopic/Trusty/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/kamal/arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Utopic/Trusty/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/kamal/arges)
<bjf> Status for the main kernels, until today:
<bjf>   *   Lucid - None
<bjf>   * Precise - None
<bjf>   *  Trusty - None
<bjf>   *  Utopic - None
<bjf>  
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>   * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>   * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/sru-report.html
<bjf>  
<bjf>  
<bjf> Schedule:
<bjf>  
<bjf> Current cycle had ended. Waiting for next cycle to start on Feb. 08.
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Feb  3 17:03:27 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-02-03-17.00.moin.txt
<kamal> thanks jsalisbury
<cking> bah, I missed that meeting, my clock is out
<henrix> cking: i missed it too :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-02-05
 * barry waves
<mvo> hello everyone, steve is at a sprint so he asked me to run the meeting
<sil2100> o/
<mvo> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Feb  5 16:00:51 2015 UTC.  The chair is mvo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<mvo> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<mvo> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity mvo sil2100 robru cyphermox)
<mvo> sil2100 jodh caribou stgraber bdmurray slangasek mvo doko barry infinity cyphermox robru
<sil2100> Oh crap
<sil2100> - Landing team work, silos coordination, preparing landing e-mails
<sil2100> - Work on getting vivid and rtm smoketesting back online
<sil2100>   * Asking for a retarget of ubuntu-terminal-app to the /reboot
<sil2100>   * Fixing vcs-bzr-revno generation
<sil2100>   * Tracking down ubuntu-rtm/mako smoketesting issue
<sil2100> - Trying to identify causes of various anding problems on Monday
<sil2100> - Getting information regarding the snapshotting of the archive
<sil2100> - The release of the great milestone image!
<sil2100> - Performance Review in the HR system
<sil2100> - Work on the distro diff automated scripts
<sil2100>   * Some of my previous work has been lost apparently so re-writing it better
<sil2100> - Working on the spreadsheet tarball/click temporary tracking
<sil2100>   * Trying to clean up some things on the spreadsheet
<sil2100> (done)
<jodh> * snappy:
<jodh>   - Code reviews.
<jodh>   - Got "snappy update" working in go branch.
<jodh>   - Lots of testing for bug 1414251.
<ubottu> bug 1414251 in snappy-ubuntu "does not boot on bare metal amd64/i386" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1414251
<jodh>   - Improved bindmount handing for updates.
<jodh>   - Meeting with mvo+barry on how to remove need for
<jodh>     ReloadConfiguration() system-image call.
<jodh>   - Working on code to verify the upgrade.
<jodh>   - Currently reworking tests for lp:~jamesodhunt/snappy/remove-lsblk.
<jodh> â°
<mvo> no caribou it seems
<mvo> stgraber: ?
 * stgraber waves
<bdmurray> mvo: I think he has another meeting.
<stgraber> sprinted last week, released LXC 1.1 on Friday, flew to CPT
<stgraber> been having meetings about LXD and snappy all week
<stgraber> that's about it :)
<bdmurray> fixed error tracker package crash rate django version upgrade issue
<bdmurray> modified phased-updater / errors to better calculate rate of crashes
<bdmurray> tested phased-updater with errors code on staging (good)
<bdmurray> submitted RT to have errors code updated in production (deployed)
<bdmurray> submitted merge proposal with changes to phased-updater and pup parameter at errors for ubutnu-archive-tools
<bdmurray> submitted RT to get access to staging cassandra database
<bdmurray> modified the retracers to catch / raise more traceback to python-oops
<bdmurray> submitted RTs to have daisy updated on the staging / production retracers to catch apport crashes
<bdmurray> submitted RT to have access to port 9042 on cassandra servers for CQL / cassandra driver
<bdmurray> worked on code (using CQL) to backfill counters for channel and device information
<bdmurray> helped pstolowski sort out issues with his libunity-scope-api apport package hook
<bdmurray> wrote a test case for bug LP: #1412909 (samba upgrade)
<bdmurray> wrote a test case for bug LP: #1217407 (whoopsie spams log with online)
<bdmurray> uploaded V fix and SRUs for T and U fixing whoopsie bug LP: #1217407
<bdmurray> irc discussion with cyphermox regarding ubiquity bugs and apt-cdrom ident
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1412909 in samba (Ubuntu) "Please raise Suggests for lib{pam,nss}-winbind to Recommends in trusty" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1412909
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1217407 in whoopsie (Ubuntu Utopic) "whoopsie spams the log with "online" messages" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1217407
<bdmurray> fixed bugbot to check for casper before saying the media is invalid
<bdmurray> submitted apport merge proposal fixing bug LP: #1084979
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1084979 in apport (Ubuntu) "Submitting error report asks confounding questions" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1084979
<bdmurray> SRU team training of tjaalton
<bdmurray> â done
<mvo> bdmurray: oh, a new sru team member? NICE
<slangasek> \o/
<slangasek> so here-ish
<slangasek> also sprinting this week in CPT
<slangasek> updating edk2 to give us EFI firmware for arm64, which will unblock being able to put arm64 hardware in scaling stack / canonistack
<slangasek> being reminded by infinity et al that I should really finish the console-setup merge this cycle
<slangasek> looked into issue with packages incorrectly making it through the ci-train without Ubuntu-dev signoff
<slangasek> that's about all to report for now
<slangasek> (done)
<mvo> misc:
<mvo> - patch review/sponsoring for update-manager, ubuntu-release-upgrader, unattended-upgrades, synaptic, squid-deb-proxy
<mvo> - send patch to build util-linux with libudev-dev to fix lsblk as non-root
<mvo> snappy:
<mvo> - lots of work (code, branch review, addressing code review comments) on go port, it makes good progress and can install snaps now
<mvo> - debug/fix dbus signal mishandling in go-dbus #1416328
<mvo> - debug/debug-more/discuss/workaround go-dbus bug #1416352
<ubottu> bug 1416352 in go-dbus "go-dbus hangs when method call generates signals" [Undecided,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1416352
<mvo> - report system-image #1416328
<mvo> - some fixes for networkless operations
<mvo> - write up SnappyConfig spec
<mvo> - write go bindings for atexit() and learn that go uses _exit(2)
<mvo> (done)
<caribou> mvo: o/
<mvo> hey caribou do you want to go now before doko?
<caribou> mvo: sure, little to say
<caribou> Apport upstream work merged upstream
<caribou> Makedumpfile :
<caribou> - Add Firmware assisted dump support for ppc64el
<caribou> CUPS : backported upstream fix & sent to Debian / vivid
<caribou> (done)
<barry> no doko ?
<mvo> I saw him!
<mvo> doko: ?
<mvo> barry: I thnk you should go and we push doko after robru
<mvo> think
<doko> - work on LP: #1417664, scopes workaround, test case reduction, GCC workaround, GCC upstream fix
<doko> - fix gcc-4.7 and gcc-4.8 build failures
<doko> - fix GCC cross build failures
<doko> - work on a Linaro regression on arm64
<doko> - updated gcc-5 packages
<doko> - finally started both test rebuilds
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1417664 in unity-scopes-shell (Ubuntu) "Unity8 build causes internal compiler error on armhf" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1417664
<doko> (done)
<barry> system-image: getting close to 3.0 release.  need to work w/mandel on some udm issues and finish up a few more features for snappy.  had discussions w/mvo & jodh about ReloadConfiguration() and decided we don't need to port that (we can do equivalent in another, less racy way).  LP: #1417176
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1417176 in Ubuntu system image "Add D-Bus signal Applied()" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1417176
<barry> snappy: chats 'n stuff
 * doko pushes mvo
<barry> debuntu: debian bug 776267 & pypi issue 228 (package directory listings going away, breaking all d/watch files.  various discussions leading to a redirector: http://pypi.debian.net - e.g. http://pypi.debian.net/wheel/watch )
<ubottu> Debian bug 776267 in lintian "lintian: Add check for unsupported PyPI URL in debian/watch" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/776267
 * mvo hugs doko
<barry> --done--
<mvo> barry: will s-i 3.0 reply to dbus events while its downloading using pycurl?
<slangasek> mvo: that way if you go over the edge doko comes with you? ;)
<mvo> barry: I think I filed a bug about this
<mvo> slangasek: haha
<barry> mvo: yes, i believe so
<barry> mvo: do you have a bug#?
<mvo> barry: yes, give me a sec
<mvo> barry: bug 1416328
<ubottu> bug 1416328 in system-image (Ubuntu) "Does not reply on dbus when busy (e.g. downloading)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1416328
<mvo> barry: but its probably my bug from  the initial/early pycurl code
<barry> mvo: let me triage it and i'll investigate
<mvo> thanks
<robru> no infinity apparently, cyphermox ?
<barry> mvo: thanks for the test case! :)
 * cyphermox pushes infinity out of the way
<cyphermox>  * more reviews for MATE: ubuntu-mate-settings, ubuntu-mate-artwork, yuyo-gtk-theme
<cyphermox>   - needs a second pair of eyes for upload, since these are new packages.
<cyphermox>  * MP done to enable MATE in ubuntu-cdimage, waiting for review.
<cyphermox>  * Investigated bug 1386153; behavior between live and only-ubiquity preseeded installs.
<cyphermox>  * quickly consulted for jgdx on NM/ofono interaction questions.
<ubottu> bug 1386153 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Inconsistent behaviour between 2 ways of launching Ubiquity" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1386153
<cyphermox>  * bug 1386131: prompt for crypto passphrase in automated installed when not preseeded.
<cyphermox>  * fixed NM bug 1416635 (crash with bluetooth+ofono for some devices recognized as hfp)
<cyphermox>  * investigated bug 1418109; but so far not reproduced.
<ubottu> bug 1386131 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Preseeding encrypted lvm fails instead of asking for password" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1386131
<ubottu> bug 1416635 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "NetworkManager crashed with signal 5 in ASSERT_VALID_PATH_COMPONENT()" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1416635
<ubottu> bug 1418109 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Trusty: OEM mode user password dialog box is missing" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1418109
<cyphermox>  * started work on a fix for ubiquity bug 1418105 (wifi password left from oem session)
<cyphermox>  * investigating plymouth bugs 1386005 and 1359689
<ubottu> bug 1418105 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Trusty: testing .2 the oem session on i386 leaves the oem wifi password in place" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1418105
<ubottu> bug 1386005 in plymouth (Ubuntu) "Password not accepted graphical boot for encrypted root system" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1386005
<ubottu> bug 1359689 in plymouth (Ubuntu) "cryptsetup password prompt not shown" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1359689
<cyphermox> (done)
<robru> * finally succeeded in rolling out new production instance of ci-train built on brand new charm, new mojo spec, migrated from precise to trusty, with a new version of jenkins.
<robru> * fixed various regressions caused by new rollout
<robru>   - fixed assign/reconfigure silo job shows only white page when job triggered
<robru>   - fixed assign/reconfigure silo job missing spaces between MP urls if newlines were used in spreadsheet
<robru>   - fixed assign/reconfigure silo job giving a 404 when user not logged into jenkins -- job now auto-logs in when necessary.
<robru>   - fixed publish job incorrectly skipping certain packages for publication.
<robru> * and as always, landings, landings, landings.
<robru> (done)
<mvo> barry: sure, its even copy-pastable :P
<barry> :)
<mvo> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<mvo> do we have any?
<mvo> apparently not
<mvo> 3
<mvo> 2
<mvo> 1
<mvo> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Feb  5 16:20:14 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-02-05-16.00.moin.txt
<barry> thanks!
<caribou> thank mvo !
<mvo> thanks everyone
<jodh> thanks
<elfy> hi nhaines :)
<nhaines> Hi elfy.  :)
<dholbach> hey :)
<nhaines> Couldn't miss the meeting.  :)
<elfy> heh
<elfy> did you not get the mail ...
<nhaines> Not sure if I remember the original one, but I did get the reminder from yesterday.
<elfy> you didn't catch the implied dad joke then :D
<pleia2> o/
<nhaines> :D
<nhaines> Hi, pleia2.  :)
<elfy> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Feb  5 17:02:21 2015 UTC.  The chair is elfy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<elfy> #chair mhall119 dholbach pleia2
<meetingology> Current chairs: dholbach elfy mhall119 pleia2
<mdeslaur> hello
<elfy> #topic Community Council catch up with the Technical Board
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Community Council catch up with the Technical Board
<dholbach> hey mdeslaur
<dholbach> do we have anyone else from the TB here?
<dholbach> mdeslaur, how are you doing? how are things on the TB?
<mdeslaur> I'm doing great!
<mdeslaur> Nothing much happening with the TB...nobody's coming up with anything controversial :P
<dholbach> really=?
<dholbach> I was now hoping to hear the newest from you :)
<mhall119> o/
<mdeslaur> most of what we're doing is microrelease exceptions
<dholbach> or I would've thought that cloud, phone, snappy and everything else would keep the TB busy :)
<dholbach> so it's not like the TB members are collapsing under the load of work items?
<dholbach> TB work items
<mdeslaur> hehe, no, not at all :)
<mdeslaur> all that stuff is being done in the archive with the well established procedures...nothing much to discuss there
<dholbach> I'm just going through the backlog on the mailing list... is that were most of the discussion is happening?
<mdeslaur> dholbach: yes
<mhall119> mdeslaur: I know some flavors were concerned about things like Qt landings and balancing the needs of Unity 8 and KDE, how is that being managed?
<mdeslaur> mhall119: nobody has brought that to the attention of the tech board
<mdeslaur> if there are difficulties there, by all means, bring it up on the list
<dholbach> mhall119, that's my main take-away from this meeting: encourage others to create work items for the TB
<mhall119> mdeslaur: I think it's more coordination concerns than difficulties
<dholbach> that's what I'm going to do from now on :)
<elfy> I know that Xubuntu have just been caught with QT5 in 14.04.2
<elfy> suddenly there's a whole bunch of stuff we weren't expecting to see in our images
<mhall119> what is Xubuntu doing with Qt5?
<elfy> indeed
<dholbach> mdeslaur, would you think that the TB could be a good group to help coordinate landing like this?
<mdeslaur> elfy: oh? what caused that?
<elfy> mdeslaur: not sure yet - we don't want unity-greeter either :)
<dholbach> ah, so maybe a depends/recommends change?
<elfy> I assume so
<mdeslaur> dholbach: if there are disageements or concerns about the best way to process, definitely
<mdeslaur> s/process/proceed/
 * dholbach nods
<dholbach> this is just a personal question from my own interest: after having noticed a couple of issues recently, I started a conversation with teams who ask users to use PPAs (which in a lot of cases is just fine) - do you think the TB would also be a good place to discuss this to see if we can improve some processes/tools/rules?
<dholbach> apart from that I'm happy and don't have more questions - it's good if there's little work for the TB, because it also means that nobody's blocking on the TB :)
<mdeslaur> dholbach: sure, feel free to bring it up on the list
<mdeslaur> dholbach: well, we have little work currently, but that doesn't mean we won't get stuff to look at in the near future
<pleia2> mdeslaur: do you have any concerns about how quiet things have been for the TB?
<dholbach> mdeslaur, is there anything where you feel the CC could help out - or any questions you have for us?
<mdeslaur> pleia2: not at all, it means things are working well :)
<pleia2> great
<dholbach> elfy, mhall119: do you have any more questions for mdeslaur? :)
<mdeslaur> dholbach: I can't think of anything at the moment, but we won't hesitate to speak up if we do think of something
<elfy> nope - I'm happy if he is
<dholbach> haha :)
<mdeslaur> again, please don't hesitate to bring stuff up on the tech board list
<elfy> I don't actually know where that is
<elfy> nor can I find it :)
<dholbach> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/technical-board
<mdeslaur> ah, dholbach is faster than me :)
<elfy> ty dholbach :)
<dholbach> mdeslaur = source of elfy's happiness
<dholbach> brilliant
<mdeslaur> hehe
<elfy> heh
<elfy> I'll come back next time as hobgoblin - see how you get on then
<dholbach> thanks a lot mdeslaur for making time and thanks for your overall brilliant work :)
<mdeslaur> thanks for inviting me!
<elfy> yep - thanks mdeslaur
<dholbach> who do we have here from the LoCo Council?
<dholbach> I saw nhaines
<elfy> was he here?
<elfy> :)
<nhaines> Who told you?!
<dholbach> let me know when you're done with peekaboo :)
<czajkowski> heh
<dholbach> hey czajkowski
<czajkowski> ello
<czajkowski> sorry for the delay meetings ran over
<elfy> #topic Community Council catch up with the LoCo Council
<dholbach> anyone else from the LC?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Community Council catch up with the LoCo Council
<PabloRubianes> Here!
<dholbach> hey hey PabloRubianes
<PabloRubianes> hello
<pleia2> hey PabloRubianes and nhaines
<elfy> hi PabloRubianes
<dholbach> how are things - how are you all doing?
<jose> hello!
<czajkowski> PabloRubianes: jose nhaines aloha
<elfy> hi jose
<nhaines> Well, I'm pretty new, but so far things are going pretty smoothly.
<PabloRubianes> after the restaffing I think we are better
<elfy> that's good PabloRubianes
<dholbach> that's good to hear - how is the general level of craziness? are you very busy right now in the LC?
<elfy> PabloRubianes: though it's going to start pretty soon again for you all :)
<jose> believe it or not, we aren't that much busy. we've got a couple reverification cases open
<jose> the global jam hasn't brought us crazy, which is good
<dholbach> how were the preparations going for UGJ?
<jose> the meetings we had with you and the on-air session went good, I got to email my part of the world
<jose> but didn't get a single reply
<nhaines> I didn't get a reply from my mailing either.
<nhaines> On the other hand, the number of registered sessions did go up.
<dholbach> did you mail people or mailing lists?
<nhaines> I emailed only people.
<jose> I emailed people (as per my understanding on the draft)
 * dholbach nods
<dholbach> Bhavani did both, I think :)
<PabloRubianes> the thing is some loco admins are gone
<PabloRubianes> we come up with this last year when we contact all LoCos
<nhaines> Yeah, I'd like to see about doing some housekeeping and getting a better pulse on the health of our LoCos.
<jose> we tried to do some housekeeping last year, but it didn't go that well... several teams didn't reply
<jose> we got hit by launchpad limits, it was a bit of a mess, but we got through it
<dholbach> do you think it could work to mail the mailing lists and explain that you, as the LoCo Council would be happy to help out, if there's questions to get the team back up and running, ie get new folks in the driving seat
<nhaines> jose: I'll go through the archives then.
<dholbach> like in cases, where we know nobody of the contacts/admins replied in ages
<jose> I guess that could work, but we'd have to do another census
<jose> also, I believe the problem with teams and subteams is solved by now
<nhaines> I think that would be a good idea, though.  When we have team that are abandoned, it can discourage newcomers from joining in.
<dholbach> now we just need more events and more activity :)
<czajkowski> jose: great stuff
<jose> he haven't been hit by 'major stuff' that I can think of, or did we?
<nhaines> Not since the subteams thing.
<PabloRubianes> jose: no
<PabloRubianes> that was really mayor
<elfy> well I for one am glad that's done and dusted
<nhaines> elfy: +1
<PabloRubianes> elfy: +100000000000
<jose> even though we got back hit by some stuff, +1.
<PabloRubianes> also we could try to finaly get LoCo Summit done for next circle maybe
<elfy> jose: maybe so - but it was something that's probably really needed to be dealt with for a long time
<dholbach> apart from the teams which never got back to you, do you have good feeling of who the really active LoCos are?
<jose> yep!
<jose> eh, we would need to set some criterias
<jose> but I believe the ones that post in the planet are quite active
<dholbach> ah yes, maybe - but I was thinking more of gut feeling
<elfy> dholbach: that's probably going to be more useful
<dholbach> I was just wondering if those people get together across loco teams every now and then
<PabloRubianes> dholbach:I don't see the excitement that used to be arround ubuntu
<dholbach> too discuss ideas, plans, events and stuff they're doing
<jose> I believe there was a peak of activity a couple cycles ago, and it's been decreasing since. the excitement is definitely not the same since it's 'something usual' now
<dholbach> PabloRubianes, I think I know what you mean... for a lot of people "Ubuntu is working well" and "Ubuntu has been around for a while"
<jose> +1
<dholbach> although a lot of great stuff is happening
<dholbach> like who would've thought 10 years ago there'd be an Ubuntu phone :)
<PabloRubianes> dholbach:also "it just works"
<nhaines> It's a bit hard to shake that.  The phone and tablet stuff might've helped, but it's been 3 years with no products, and convergence is another 2 years away.
<dholbach> or "Ubuntu on your fridge" would become a possibility :)
<popey> \o/ Toasters
<elfy> re UJG https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGlobalJam/Events - the events links to 2012 ...
<elfy> popey: lol
<jose> elfy: we use the ltp for that now
<nhaines> So hopefully we'll start to see excitement pick up as products start hitting the shelves so to speak.  :)
<jose> popey: you promised a toaster! give me one!
<PabloRubianes> dholbach: also apart from the phone, the desktop looks stuck that get people off
<jose> oh, the general link
<elfy> jose: mmm - was the first thing I found when searching just now
<PabloRubianes> I see that in my LoCo
<popey> jose: it needs to beat this to be a toaster I want :) http://www.dualit.com/products/toasters-kettles
<dholbach> nhaines, yeah - I agree - maybe for that it'd help to bring people from active LoCos together to discuss stuff they're doing and share that
<nhaines> dholbach: that might work.  A lot of people want LoCos to be Ubuntu User Groups and well... they're not.  :)
<dholbach> PabloRubianes, the desktop and unity team work very hard on bringing unity8 to desktops, but yes - people get to feel that a lot of resources were focused on the phone :)
<nhaines> So refocusing on advocacy might be nice.  vivid looks like a nice, boring, awesome release that could be fun to promote!
<jose> problem with the phone, for example, is that it took a bit to get to the market. and now it's limited to some markets
<dholbach> nhaines, I, personally, wouldn't let myself get disturbed by that - as long as there are local Ubuntu groups doing good stuff :)
<mhall119> sorry, sudden grandmother visit, had to step away for a few
<mhall119> but I'm back now
<elfy> :)
<dholbach> jose, sure, but that'll change :)
<jose> e.g., people in Peru were excited about buying one two years ago, but now that one's been released and they can't buy it they feel a bit discouraged
<jose> let's hope so.
<jose> the time between one point and another one made the excitement fade away
<nhaines> dholbach: oh, I think they should be advocacy groups primarily.  :)  Although perhaps user groups might be something worth expanding to.
<jose> now, there's something that does worry me around the LC
<PabloRubianes> dholbach: yes I hope Unity8 bring excitement with it
<elfy> jose: what's that ?
<dholbach> how partners and mobile companies respond to the phone is one thing, but I still think we can do more in terms of helping local teams do good stuff :)
<jose> so, we have two members that are MIA. One of them just replies to emails occasionally and is always travelling, and the other one is just MIA, though he posts to facebook and G+, no email replies on his side.
<pleia2> how long have they been MIA?
<jose> I'd like to discuss the second case privately, but it's something that's hitting us. with the restaffing we're moving better, but we've still got MIA people
<jose> pleia2: since last year? probably november
<czajkowski> jose: feel free to drop us an email
<jose> before the subteams issue
<pleia2> I know we talked about this a few months ago, but a couple folks piped up to say they'd just been busy
 * pleia2 nods
 * elfy does too 
<dholbach> yeah, I think we can deal with that together and find a solution
<czajkowski> +1
<mhall119> IIRC, one or both of them are due to expire this spring anyway, is that correct?
 * jose checks
<jose> one of them is about to expire, in like a couple months
<czajkowski> it's ok we can take it to the mailing list
<jose> and the other one is set to expire by the end of the year, with my term
<jose> yep, I'd prefer that.
<pleia2> ok
<PabloRubianes> I am expiring in spring/autumn
<elfy> 2 expire in April
<dholbach> I think we have a list of upcoming restaffing activities, but if you want to be sure, drop us a mail
<elfy> 3 in October
<dholbach> so yeah, I want to say again, that I was very happy with the public planning hangout - maybe we can do that again for the next set of activities or crazy ideas - and invite the active teams along
<dholbach> what excites me personally is reports like from the Myanmar or Mauritius team who post lots of pictures, etc :)
<jose> definitely! but always bare in mind that we have a 10 people hard limit on Hangouts
<dholbach> right
<nhaines> dholbach: the hangout was fun and I'd love to do it again.  :)
<dholbach> +1
<nhaines> If we can get enough people in IRC then someone can just read from IRC.
<dholbach> sure, that'd work too
<elfy> can someone join the hangout and just be not on camera and able to comment in the hangout chat only
<elfy> and NOT count in the 10?
<dholbach> I don't think so
<jose> nope
<elfy> ok
<jose> 10 people, whether they speak or not
<nhaines> Sounds like a job for unholy combinations of Mumble and Hangouts.  :)
<dholbach> but maybe there could also be some discussion on the list and then smaller teams hangout and talk about subsets of topics?
<dholbach> sorry, I feel like my obsession with cross-pollination is taking up the meeting :)
<pleia2> hah
<nhaines> Collaboration drives good things.  :)
<dholbach> so let's see if they can do something in this regard in this cycle
<dholbach> I'm happy to help where I can, and I'm sure that's true for the rest of the CC as well :)
<elfy> of course
<jose> thanks :)
<dholbach> brilliant :)
<dholbach> does anyone else have any questions? do you have questions for the CC?
<elfy> I've nothing for the LC
<nhaines> No, for the very short amount of time I've been on the LC, I've been very happy to see that you're there if we need you.  :)
<pleia2> thanks jose, PabloRubianes and nhaines :)
<PabloRubianes> thanks people!
<nhaines> Thanks for checking in with us.  :)
<dholbach> rock and roll!
<elfy> thanks PabloRubianes jose nhaines
<dholbach> thanks a lot :)
<jose> always a pleasure to have a chat with you guys :)
<jose> thanks for the continuous support!
<nhaines> +1
<elfy> that's nice to know jose :)
<mhall119> thanks to all the LC
<pleia2> #topic Any other business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Any other business
<pleia2> we've had 2 of the 7 CC interviews published now
<elfy> \o/
<pleia2> dholbach, czajkowski, mhall119 - I still need yours :)
<mhall119> I know :(
<dholbach> yes, same here :)
<pleia2> I'll try to track down YokoZar too, I fear he's been eaten by first-year-at-employer
<elfy> you can get away with almost anything in them :)
<pleia2> lol
<elfy> pleia2: ha ha
<czajkowski> pleia2: I've added it to my calendar for tomorrow
<czajkowski> block booked an hour
<czajkowski> its the only way
<czajkowski> :)
<elfy> :)
<pleia2> hehe
<pleia2> thanks
 * dholbach hugs pleia2
<dholbach> thanks a lot for taking care of that :)
<nhaines> Yeah, they're fascinating to read.
<pleia2> glad to hear it
<pleia2> that's all I had :)
<dholbach> I'm alls set now too
<elfy> nothing here
<elfy> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Feb  5 17:59:58 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-02-05-17.02.moin.txt
<dholbach> Looks like that's a wrap. :)
<dholbach> thanks a lot everyone!
<czajkowski> lovely
<elfy> thanks all :)
<nhaines> \o/
<inetpro> good evening
<Kilos> good evening everyone
 * inetpro switches on the lights
<Kilos> hi inetpro  ty for joining us
<inetpro> Kilos: anyone else here yet?
<Kilos> ?
<Kilos> fly is coming
<Kilos> i see the weed and crashkid
<inetpro> I sense them here but I don't see them yet
<Kilos> hi tumbleweed  cocooncrash  theblazehen
<inetpro> wb here superfly
<superfly> thanks inetpro
<Kilos> hi superfly
<Neo31> superduperfly ^_^
<Neo31> good luck Kilos and superfly
<Kilos> ty Neo31
<superfly> ta
<inetpro> Neo31: good point, good luck guys!
 * inetpro can hear a pin drop
<Kilos> yeah frightening hey
<Neo31> lol
<Neo31> u r a bit early guys
<Neo31> give it few more minutes
<Kilos> hi kenju254
<Kilos> lo highvoltage
<inetpro> Neo31: I think Kilos's mother taught him to always be early
<Kilos> yip
<Neo31> he should have learned to be patient then :p
<inetpro> when he's not early you have to start worrying
<tumbleweed> oh, right, testimonials :)
<Kilos> im just greeting old friends we dont see often anymore
<inetpro> wow! Look who's here
<inetpro> hi tumbleweed
<Kilos> tumbleweed  live is so much better
<Kilos> holds me up
<inetpro> Kilos: s/live/life/
<Kilos> live
<inetpro> ah, I see what you mean
<Kilos> not a written testimonial
<s-fox> Ping for Kilos:  superfly - Just want to check you're here for the meeting at 22:00 UTC
<Kilos> here
<superfly> hey s-fox, indeed I am
<s-fox> Super :)
<Kilos> evening s-fox
<s-fox> o/
<Kilos> in 2 mins we can say morning to you
<inetpro> fp
<s-fox> I am trying to get ahold of the rest of the board
<superfly> hey Unit193, more of the fan club
<slickymaster> hey Unit193
<Unit193> Hello.
<Kilos> hehe morning Unit193
<cwayne> hello all
<superfly> hi cwayne
<Kilos> hi cwayne  PabloRubianes
<inetpro> good mornings
<inetpro> hmm...
<superfly> oh dear, I hope Kilos hasn't had an Internet problem suddenly...
<Neo31> Internet always drops in the right time :p
 * inetpro also lost connectivity for a moment, but I'm back again
<s-fox> Still trying here.  We have 3, trying to get one more
<s-fox> WB Kilos :)
<Kilos> what a time for a modem to start playing up
<superfly> ah, there he is, phew!
<Kilos> ty superfly
<superfly> thanks s-fox
<s-fox> Okay, I am going to start the meeting
<Neo31> lol Kilos
<Neo31> it's ok u r back
<s-fox> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Feb  5 22:08:30 2015 UTC.  The chair is s-fox. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<Kilos> hehe had to move usb to another socket
<s-fox> #topic Membership 22:00 UTC Board Meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Membership 22:00 UTC Board Meeting
<s-fox> Okay, sorry for the delay everyone. Due to a lack of board members the final vote will be taken to our mailing list.  We will contact people with results though. Apologies in advance, We realise that this is not ideal
<Kilos> np
<superfly> Thanks
<s-fox> The first candidate is  Kilos , please introduce yourself
<cwayne> how many people are we missing?
<s-fox> 1
<Kilos> must i wait?
<s-fox> No,  Please go ahead Kilos :)
<Kilos> My name is Miles Sharpe,I joined the launchpad team in September 2009. My wiki page is at  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kilos
<Kilos> I started using Ubuntu on 8.10 and really struggled until Superfly invited me to #ubuntu-za (when he found me struggling on the main ubuntu mailing list) and there I was taught how to think in a new way. Actually taught to think again. Was basically running on subconscious memories before
<Kilos> We have often joked about me being the greeter bot on #ubuntu-za
<Kilos> I joined the launchpad team in September 2009. My wiki page is at  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kilos. My future goals are to keep being the greeter bot in #ubuntu-za , helping newbies as far as I can then pointing them to more knowledgable help when I'm stumped and reporting bugs when I find them
<s-fox> Wow, so many testimonials! :D
<Kilos> I am also planning to reach out to other Ubuntu groups in Africa with the intention of helping them to start their own Locos. I have had reply from the Congo Brazzavile so far and they are keen to do so. 20 members
<Kilos> Africa's northern point measured from Tunisia to most southern point in Cape Town is a total distance: 7,965.97 km with some countries only having one or 2 Ubuntu users. I have created an IRC channel #ubuntu-africa so hopefully the single users have a community to connect with.
<Kilos> People from 9 different countries have already joined the channel since creating it on Wednesday, 4 February 2015
<Kilos> thats me guys
<inetpro> well done Kilos
<Kilos> ty inetpro
<s-fox> Is anyone here to support Kilos ?
<Kilos> was nerve wracking
<s-fox> Relax, we don't bite. Haha
<Kilos> haha
<superfly> me
<Kilos> this is a big thing for me
<inetpro> s-fox: if I can I would like to add something
<s-fox> Go for it inetpro
<Neo31> i'm here to support Kilos even tough I know him only for few days now :)
<inetpro> I think the barriers of entry in the Linux world are very low and especially so with the Ubuntu OS and the value is very high, and not just monetary value, but the value is even higher for those who can not possibly afford anything else. Most people unfortunately just don't know it.
<inetpro> for the guys who do not know Kilos, do yourself a favour to find out more about him
<Neo31> he seems honest and loves ubuntu and very helpful on irc
<inetpro> he is the ultimate example of why Ubuntu with it's OS based on free software just has to keep going!
<inetpro> he has proven, to me at least, how anyone no matter your standing in society, whether rich or poor, whether you're a developer or a normal user or even a mechanic, can play a massive role in the Ubuntu community
<inetpro> his character and perseverance also reveals the true spirit of Ubuntu! "People are people through other people"
<inetpro> ..
<superfly> Yes, I echo what inetpro says.
<s-fox> This is wonderful to see :)
<cwayne> Excellent :)
<s-fox> Okay, i am going to call a vote but it will continue on the membership boards mailing list.
<s-fox> #voters cyphermox PabloRubianes
<meetingology> Current voters: PabloRubianes cyphermox
<s-fox> #voters s-fox
<meetingology> Current voters: PabloRubianes cyphermox s-fox
<cwayne> s-fox: im a voter as well
<s-fox> #voters cwayne
<meetingology> Current voters: PabloRubianes cwayne cyphermox s-fox
<s-fox> sorry cwayne :)
<cwayne> np :)
<s-fox> #vote Kilos for membership?
<meetingology> Please vote on: Kilos for membership?
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<s-fox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from s-fox
<cyphermox> then we do have quorum I guess
<cyphermox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
<cwayne> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cwayne
<PabloRubianes_> +1
<s-fox> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Kilos for membership?
<meetingology> Votes for:3 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<PabloRubianes_> 4 votes
<PabloRubianes_> Grrrr
<s-fox> Excellent, and we have a qurum
<cyphermox> the underscore. heh
<inetpro> \o/
<cyphermox> s-fox can you fix #voters?
<s-fox> Yes, sorry i didn't see the other PabloRubianes_  ;)
<cyphermox> hehe ;)
<s-fox> #voters PabloRubianes_
<meetingology> Current voters: PabloRubianes PabloRubianes_ cwayne cyphermox s-fox
<s-fox> All fixed now
<chilicuil> congratulations Kilos, you deserve this =)
<cwayne> congrats Kilos :)
<s-fox> Well done!
<Kilos> oh wow ty so much guys
<s-fox> Really pleased to see you try to grow the locos
<inetpro> somebody please order ice cream for Kilos
<cyphermox> congrats Kilos
 * Kilos bows
<s-fox> Okay, next up is superfly
<Neo31> congrats Kilos :)
<superfly> Hi!
<s-fox> Please introduce yourself
<superfly> My name is Raoul Snyman, I'm a developer and open source advocate. My wiki page is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/superfly
<superfly> I started using Ubuntu when it first came out (I remember the picture controversy ;-) ), and soon started hanging out in the South Africa LoCo IRC channel (October 2006). Even though I'd been on the list and in IRC for a while, I didn't get to joining the team on Launchpad until later.
<superfly> I'm the leader of an open source project, OpenLP, which has a package in both Ubuntu and Debian. I submitted it to Debian because I actually wanted it in Ubuntu, and I knew that Ubuntu pulls from Debian. And there are lots of people who use Debian, so I'd be killing two birds with one stone, so to speak. I'm also part of the team that's bidding to host DebConf 16 in Cape Town.
<superfly> While I don't have a lot of time on my hands, my intention is to continue to contribute toward Ubuntu-ZA and Ubuntu in general via community participation, teaching others how to use Ubuntu and the technologies associated with it. Just recently, I revamped our website: https://www.ubuntu-za.org/ - it's still a bit of a work in progress, but we're getting there.
<superfly> That's me in a nutshell.
 * inetpro votes +1 for superfly 
<s-fox> Can you tell us a little more about how you help to grow ubuntu-za ?
 * Kilos votes +1 for superfly
<Kilos> s-fox  can i say something
<superfly> Well, I am active on the mailing list and in IRC, where I help folks with problems, contribute ideas, etc.
<superfly> And as I said before, I'm also the developer and maintainer of the web site.
<s-fox> Okay, I see lots of support again.
<s-fox> Anyone here to shout for superfly ?
<inetpro> o/
<Kilos> +1
<cocooncrash> o/
<inetpro> he is a tutor of note
<inetpro> s-fox: others are sleeping unfortunately
<superfly> Oh yes, almost forgot about that... I've started giving tutorials in IRC on bzr, Launchpad, and other technical things
<Unit193> As a personal reference, +1
<s-fox> Okay, time for a vote :)
<Kilos> without superfly  our channel would be missing its life blood
<s-fox> #vote superfly for Ubuntu Membership?
<meetingology> Please vote on: superfly for Ubuntu Membership?
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<s-fox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from s-fox
<cyphermox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
<cwayne> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cwayne
<chilicuil> +1
<PabloRubianes_> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from PabloRubianes_
<s-fox> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: superfly for Ubuntu Membership?
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<s-fox> Congratulations :D
<superfly> wooh! Thanks :-D
<Kilos> yay
<Neo31> congratz superfly :)
<Unit193> Congrats, superfly.
<cyphermox> congrats!
<superfly> Thanks folks
<chilicuil> it's easy when you so many good references, thanks guys for your hard work and inspiration
<Kilos> congrats superfly
<inetpro> well done guys, both of you really deserve this promotion! :-)
<chilicuil> when you see*
<s-fox> Thank you for all coming :)
<inetpro> thanks s-fox, have a nice day/night everyone
<s-fox> We will sort the launchpad groups out later :)
<s-fox> Welcome
<superfly> Cool, ta.
<Kilos> thanks guys
<s-fox> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Feb  5 22:28:59 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-02-05-22.08.moin.txt
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-02-08
 * ejat jom makan 
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-02-08
<mdeslaur> \o
<tyhicks> hello
<tyhicks> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Feb  8 16:43:59 2016 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<tyhicks> we're having trouble with the wiki so there's no agenda today
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<tyhicks> Andreas Cadhalpun provided a debdiff for wily for ffmpeg (LP: #1541622)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1541622 in ffmpeg (Ubuntu) " FFmpeg security fixes February 2016" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1541622
<tyhicks> Thank you for your assistance in keeping Ubuntu users secure! :)
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<tyhicks> jdstrand: you're up
<jdstrand> I'm working on snappy this week
<jdstrand> I made good progress on the review tools last week for the refactor and new snap.yaml. hopefully that will be done soon (ideally today, possibly tomorrow)
<jdstrand> then I need to work on squashfs store checks
<jdstrand> and sync up on all the new skills work
<jdstrand> that's it from me. mdeslaur, you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm on bug triage this week
<mdeslaur> I'm going to spend some time on all the alternate cert chain backports, leading to an updated ca-certificates package that removed the 1024-bit certs
<mdeslaur> and nss updates that do the same
<mdeslaur> I may pick something else off the list
<mdeslaur> oh, and I have nginx updates to test
<mdeslaur> that's about it, sbeattie?
<tyhicks> mdeslaur: what all packages do you have to do the alt cert chain backports for? (nss and what else)
<mdeslaur> glib-networking, openssl, gnutls
<tyhicks> thanks
<mdeslaur> I've just uploaded them all to the proposed security ppa
<mdeslaur> oh, and I have to fix the gnupg regression in xenial as all my packages have stop migrating
<tyhicks> sbeattie: go ahead
 * tyhicks goes
<tyhicks> I'm in the happy place this week
<tyhicks> my focus will be wrapping up the AppArmor parser changes needed for stacking
<tyhicks> I'm currently finishing up a community sponsoring duty that I didn't get to last week (LP: #1540243)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1540243 in virtualbox-guest-additions-iso (Ubuntu Wily) "SRU virtualbox-ext-pack, virtualbox-guest-additions-iso to match virtualbox versions" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1540243
<tyhicks> sarnold: fyi ^
<tyhicks> I need to sync up with jjohansen on the AppArmor kernel bug fix landing in xenial
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<sbeattie> sorry, I can go
<tyhicks> oh, I'll have some followup work from my rngd investigation from last friday
<tyhicks> sbeattie: ok
<sbeattie> I'm on cve triage this week
<sbeattie> I'm working on a pillow update
 * mdeslaur wishes he had a pillow
<sbeattie> I have a bunch of apparmor work I need to do
<sbeattie> mdeslaur: no doubt. this one is not so comfy
<mdeslaur> hehe
<sbeattie> I'm sure there's some bits of the kernel cve triage process that I'll need to handle as supporting touch/ubuntu-core shakes out.
<sbeattie> and that'll probably consume my week
 * sbeattie is not sure  who goes next
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> this week I'm working on appamor stacking
<jjohansen> I'll need to sink up with tyhicks about stacking and I guess a kernel fix
<jjohansen> thats about it for me sarnold, you are up
<sarnold> i'm on community this week
<sarnold> I'll finish dpdk's review and start another review, or two if i'm lucky and one's small :)
<sarnold> I may also get an apparmor patch review or two done along the way for spice
<sarnold> that's it for me, chrisccoulson?
<chrisccoulson> I've got a Firefox update to do (today) to fix some regressions in 44.0
<chrisccoulson> I'm also going to be making some changes to Firefox to enable telemetry (something that's desired upstream), and hopefully fix our automated symbol uploads
<chrisccoulson> Other than that, I'll be working on Oxide stuff. I want to fix bug 1542119 this week as it's making other work difficult. I've also identified some bugs in the way we handle device scaling that I want to fix
<ubottu> bug 1542119 in Oxide "Rip all input event handling and compositing glue out of oxide::WebView" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1542119
<tyhicks> chrisccoulson: I saw that you merged in the oxide drag and drop support - nice work!
<chrisccoulson> Yeah, that's working pretty nicely now :)
<chrisccoulson> I think that's me done
<tyhicks> thanks
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/openarena.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/sox.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libguac.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/bcron.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/zeroinstall-injector.html
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<tyhicks> sbeattie: what's the status of GCC PIE?
<jdstrand> sbeattie: you said 'a bunch of apparmor work-- what are you going to be focusing on?"
<sbeattie> jdstrand: I need to do some patch review and get some releases out. We also need to sort out what we want to land in xenial.
<sbeattie> tyhicks: I still need to send my review of FTBFS email.
<tyhicks> sbeattie: ack - that test rebuild FTBFS summary email should probably be top priority
<tyhicks> jdstrand, mdeslaur, sbeattie, jjohansen, sarnold, ChrisCoulson: Thanks!
<tyhicks> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Feb  8 17:12:11 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-02-08-16.43.moin.txt
<sarnold> thanks tyhicks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-02-09
 * genii makes more coffee
 * teward waits for the coffee :P
<Kilos> yooohooo genii
<Kilos> my friend
<Kilos> my buddy
 * genii slides teward and Kilos large mugs of strong delicious coffee
<Kilos> my coffee maker
<genii> :D
<Kilos> ty ty
<Kilos> :D
<genii> No problemmo
 * teward steals all the coffee and leaves genii with only one cup :P
 * teward lurks
<Kilos> ai!
 * teward pokes jgrimm
<teward> jgrimm: is the meeting being held at a different time, or no?
<jgrimm> teward, hi there. all good. on for now
<jgrimm> hi folks
<smoser> o/
<teward> o/
<jgrimm> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Feb  9 16:01:25 2016 UTC.  The chair is jgrimm. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<jgrimm> who all is here?  hi smoser and teward!
<jgrimm> lots of folks on vacation this week: matsubara, kickinz1, cpaelzer, rbasak .. so this may be light turn out
<teward> if it's only us three, then heh.
<arges> i'm here!
<teward> ah, that explains why rbasak didn't reply to my email heh
<teward> s/email/message previously/
<jgrimm> arges, its almost like you are right behind me
<jgrimm> all right, might as well begin
<arges> haha
<jgrimm> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
 * jgrimm looks at last notes
<jgrimm> no ACTION points. moving on.
<jgrimm> #topic Xenial Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Xenial Development
<teward> nginx 1.9.10-0ubuntu1 landed in Xenial on the 27th
<teward> with a merge from Debian coming shortly after that to catch a few fixes that they did to packaging
<teward> and there's a pending task for me for Xenial, getting today's nginx release in before FeatureFreeze
<smoser> good job, teward
<jgrimm> teward, great. thanks for dutifully staying on top of nginx.
<teward> I'm waiting to hear from Debian how they want to approach dynamic modules now being available, first, before working on 1.9.11
<teward> as that may influence the way that package works in the future
<teward> </done>
<smoser> for those playing along at home, Feature Freeze is Feb 18.
<smoser> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenialXerus/ReleaseSchedule
<jgrimm> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenialXerus/ReleaseSchedule
<smoser> that is not this thursday but next.
<jgrimm> indeed, timing quickly running out.
<jgrimm> #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-x-server-core
<teward> jgrimm: and i missed your thank you.  You're welcome, it's my pleasure to keep on top of nginx :)
<jgrimm> section 16.02 has lots of the 'big' things people are working on
<jgrimm> one to may be make people more aware of is php 7
<jgrimm> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/php5/+bug/1522422
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1522422 in php5 (Ubuntu) "Update to php 7.0" [Wishlist,Triaged]
<jgrimm> Its a long read.  Contact nacc if you are interested in helping test.
<jgrimm> The plan of record is to fully transition to php7 for 16.04.  Aggressive goal, but looking pretty good so far.
<jgrimm> Anyone have any questions about the blueprint?  I can try to relay what I know at least.
<jgrimm> arges, how goes libvirt? I haven't caught up with you lately
<arges> jgrimm: So smb has been working on libvirt
<arges> and i'm going to review v5 today, its passing qa-regression-tests and seems to be almost there
<jgrimm> \o/ great
<jgrimm> thanks arges and smb
<jgrimm> anything else from folks wrt Xenial dev?
<arges> smoser: bug 1543025 would be useful to fix btw (if you haven't already seen it)
<teward> just in regards to that blueprint - i moved one of the nginx tasks from 16.03 to 16.04, to match
<ubottu> bug 1543025 in cloud-init (Ubuntu Xenial) "Wrong UTC zoneinfo in cloud-images" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1543025
<arges> it was biting us doing the autopkgtests for libvirt
<jgrimm> thanks teward
<teward> s/to match/to match nginx upstream's release schedule for 1.10.x*
<caribou> jgrimm: I'm on clamav : got a merge which builds
<jgrimm> caribou, thanks. and thanks for helping review merge of ntpd
<caribou> jgrimm: np
<jgrimm> any one else?
<smoser> arges, i'll get it fixed.
<jgrimm> #subtopic Release Bugs
<arges> cool
<jgrimm> #action smoser fix bug 1543025
<meetingology> ACTION: smoser fix bug 1543025
<ubottu> bug 1543025 in cloud-init (Ubuntu Xenial) "Wrong UTC zoneinfo in cloud-images" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1543025
<jgrimm> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-w-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<jgrimm> well, rbasak is out this week, but he did want to call out that we've been building up technical debt around bug triage and bug fixing
<jgrimm> intentional on our part to focus on FF, but just a reminder that there's still lots of work on bugs that are building up as we focus on xenial
<jgrimm> anyone else have bugs they want to talk about?
<jgrimm> moving on
<arges> bugs... what are those?
<jgrimm> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<jgrimm> ;)
<jgrimm> caribou, anything for today?
<caribou> just uploaded makedumpfile 1.5.9-4 to debian which should sync shortly
<caribou> as said before, working on merges & a few other things around kdump-tools
<caribou> that's it
<jgrimm> thanks sir
<jgrimm> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara)
<jgrimm> No matsubara today.
<jgrimm> smoser, are the cdimages now passing smoketests reliably on amd64?
 * jgrimm looks
<smoser> https://platform-qa-jenkins.ubuntu.com/view/smoke-default/
<smoser> https://platform-qa-jenkins.ubuntu.com/view/smoke-default/job/ubuntu-xenial-desktop-amd64-smoke-default/
<smoser> so, much better now.
<smoser> and http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-server/daily/current/ is 20160209 builds..
<jgrimm> \o/
<smoser> yeah. horay. thanks to nuclearbob for his work there too
<jgrimm> +1
<jgrimm> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
<arges> nothing from kernel team
<arges> ..
<jgrimm> thanks arges
<jgrimm> any questions for kernel team??
<jgrimm> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Upcoming Call For Papers
<jgrimm> anyone?
<jgrimm> I didn't have chance to research this a bit as impromptu chair for today
<jgrimm> i'm guessing there are some openstack summit dates coming up?
<jgrimm> same for:
<jgrimm> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<jgrimm> and moving on
<jgrimm> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<jgrimm> anything else?
<jgrimm> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<jgrimm> Next meeting will be 2016/02/16, same time
<jgrimm> beisner is still at front of queue, but has a standing conflict. Will probably be someone else, thedac is next up after him
<jgrimm> thanks everyone. its a wrap
<caribou> jgrimm: thanks!
<jgrimm> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Feb  9 16:34:43 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-02-09-16.01.moin.txt
<johnny_> i
<johnny_> hi
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-02-11
<tdaitx> o/
<cyphermox> o/
 * slangasek waves
<pitti> \o
<barry> o/
<pitti> sorry, I lost my homework, it got destroyed by a graviton wave
<sil2100> \o/
<slangasek> heh
<infinity> o/
<caribou> \o/
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Feb 11 16:02:49 2016 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity sil2100 robru cyphermox pitti tdaitx xnox chiluk)
<slangasek> barry xnox tdaitx infinity robru cyphermox pitti slangasek chiluk sil2100 bdmurray doko caribou
<barry> \o/
<barry> finished up the bileto sprint, ue status meeting, resolving various issues with ISP
<barry> dirtbike 0.3, virtualenv 14.0.5+ds-1, pytest 2.8.7-1 (still looking into xenial-only build failures), six 1.10.0-3, colorama 0.3.6-1, distlib 0.2.2-1, html5lib 0.99-4, setuptools de-wheel patch, debian bug #725848, several python-pips up to 8.0.2-5
<ubottu> Debian bug 725848 in python-pip "python-pip: default install method for non-root users should be --user" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/725848
<barry> LP: #1508081
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1508081 in ubuntu-system-settings (Ubuntu) "Fails to receive OTA updates" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1508081
<barry> --done--
<slangasek> xnox is out today
<slangasek> tdaitx:
<tdaitx> Really short week: vacation on Thu/Fri, holidays on Mon/Tue
<tdaitx> * Going through 300+ emails
<tdaitx> * Getting TCK to run for OpenJDK 7 on trusty based on Jean-Baptiste scripts (using LXC),
<tdaitx> * Submitted my performance review after rewriting it a few times already
<tdaitx> Next:
<tdaitx> * get that TCK up and running, check the reports
<tdaitx> * fill in the time waiting for TCK with something useful
<tdaitx> (done)
<doko> barry, pip as root? /me runs away
<infinity> (Very) short week, due to illness:
<infinity>  * SRU work and point release prep for 14.04.4
<infinity>  * glibc prep for xenial
<infinity>  * glibc prep for upcoming security updates
<infinity>  * Meetings about golang backports in LTSes
<infinity>  * still sick, trying to focus on the screen :P
<infinity> Next week:
<infinity>  * 14.04.4 release
<infinity>  * snappy sprint
<infinity> (done)
<barry> doko: basically just porting the ubuntu delta to debian so i don't have to do manual merges :/
<slangasek> robru: yo
<barry> root pip still goes to /usr/local
<cyphermox> no robru?
<slangasek> cyphermox:
<cyphermox> trusty:
<cyphermox> - multipath-tools on LVM (bug lp: #1540401)
<cyphermox> - prep/subarch bugfix (bug lp: #1533587)
<cyphermox> - debian-installer rebuild for libdebian-installer archdetect fix
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1540401 in multipath-tools (Ubuntu) "ISST-LTE: Ubuntu14.04.4 lpar fails to boot after installation: "The disk drive for /boot is not ready yet or not present"" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1540401
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1523637 in libdebian-installer (Ubuntu Trusty) "duplicate for #1533587 grub-installer fails due to alternate disk partition error - 14.04.3" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1523637
<cyphermox> xenial:
<cyphermox> - choose-mirror CC.ports.u.c support
<cyphermox> - discussing ubiquity design w/ mpt
<cyphermox> - grub2 shim+dkms integration
 * doko is jealous about two days vacation for carnival ...
<cyphermox> - ibmpmlinux review
<cyphermox> - kpartx loopback
<cyphermox> - testing grub2 enforcing kernel signature
<cyphermox> paperwork:
<cyphermox> - taxes forms fun
<cyphermox> precise:
<cyphermox> - discuss multipath-tools SRU next steps w/ caribou
<cyphermox> as you may have notcied I'm still refining my xsl for my tasks list...
<cyphermox> (done)
<pitti> wow, xsl
<pitti> autopkgtest:
<pitti>  - Don't run PPA (silo) tests against -proposed, to behave the same as actual -proposed packages (#1541334)
<cyphermox> yeah, high tech huh
<pitti>  - Fix package component detection for silo retry buttons (#1542239)
<pitti>  - Fix silos flipping between running and approved (#1537866)
<pitti>  - Add robustification for lxc-{start,stop} hang on armhf (#1536021)
<pitti>  - Adjust LXD documentation for changed standard images without deb-src
<pitti>  - Fix build profile handling with too old libdpkg when building tested package
<pitti>  - Track down missing proxy env vars on trusty/ppc64el (#1539126)
<pitti>  - Debug ppc64el Scalingstack DHCP failure with IS
<pitti>  - debci: fix empty queues in running.json (#1542833)
<pitti> systemd:
<pitti>  - Add some glue and test/packaging adjustments to test an upstream PR against our packaging and autopkgtests (ongoing)
<pitti>  - Fix fsckd test regression (#1543144)
<pitti>  - Optimize runtime of autopkgtests (from ~60 to ~30 mins)
<pitti>  - test new lxcfs 2.0, drop our remaining support patch for that (not necessary any more)
<pitti> distro:
<pitti>  - cloud-init: Debug weird time zone behaviour on cloud images (#1543025)
<pitti>  - ifupdown: add autopkgtest
<pitti>  - Fix invoke-rc.d regression for chroot install of packages without sysv script (#1543051)
<pitti>  - Clean up remaining usage of running-in-container (#1539016)
<pitti>  - Consistently use /etc/adjtime for UTC vs. LOCAL, grep archive for catching all of it (#1541532)
<pitti>  - prepare Debian debdiff for libseccomp, to reduce our delta, and merge
<pitti>  - postgresql: prepare new upstream security/bug fix releases for all supported Ubuntu releases (#1544576)
<pitti> (END)
<pitti> cyphermox: I actually like the concept, if it wasn't so unwieldy
<tdaitx> doko: get your politicians "moving" =)
<cyphermox> pitti: I'm happy with the result now to massage hamster-applet's time tracking xml to something useful for this meeting
<slangasek>  * working with server team on php7 bootstrap
<slangasek>  * working on standing up .deb based images for rpi2
<slangasek>  * presentation prep work for the snappy sprint next week
<slangasek>  * short-timer, soon to be disappearing for 4 weeks
<slangasek> (done)
<slangasek> chiluk:
<chiluk> nothing public for me this week.  I've been distracted with some ceph "fun" although I did poke on lp 1535278
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1535278 in ceph (Ubuntu Trusty) "0.80.11 stable point release" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1535278
<bdmurray> you keep saying that...
<slangasek> bdmurray: :)
<sil2100> Me?
<bdmurray> yep
<sil2100> - Landing team work, silo coordination, preparing landing e-mails
<sil2100> - RTM Status meetings
<sil2100> - system-image:
<sil2100>   * Investigate issues with fetching device tarballs from remote system-image servers
<sil2100>   * Prepared branch fixing some issues with our recovery keyring repack functionality
<sil2100> - Handling the libjsoncpp transition, pushing no-change rebuilds for rdepends
<sil2100> - Coordinating the release of scopes rebuild for libjsoncpp transition
<sil2100> - OTA-9.5:
<sil2100>   * A lot of coordination of fixes for frieza
<sil2100>   * Work on the proposition of doing a phone hotfix as OTA-9.5, based on the hotfix PPA
<sil2100>   * Multiple image rebuilds
<sil2100> - Discussion regarding switching to Debian AndroidTools
<sil2100> - Help in investigating ABI-compliance-testability issues in scopes
<sil2100> - Re-packing the mako bq-aquaris.en tarball into a proper tarball
<sil2100> - Landing Team tools:
<sil2100>   * Finishing image-info script
<sil2100>   * Creating a promotion of latest devel-proposed to devel image script
<sil2100> (done)
<bdmurray> baby sitting Error Tracker issues (ceph)
<bdmurray> changed, then reverted (b/c phone) stop accepting vivid crashes
<bdmurray> submitted RT to have gdb updated on staging /production retracers
<bdmurray> tested new version of gdb on the staging retracers (good)
<bdmurray> investigation into mojo failure in devops
<bdmurray> submitted RT regarding datastax access from devops cassandra
<bdmurray> set Vivid as End of Life in meta-release files
<bdmurray> commented on upgrade from T to V bug regarding W
<bdmurray> uploaded ubuntu-release-upgrader Wily SRU for LP: #1538880
<bdmurray> uploaded a fix for ubuntu-release-upgrader bug LP: #1292335
<bdmurray> uploaded fix for update-notifer LP: #1512326
<bdmurray> resolved phased-updater failure w/ unicode
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1538880 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Wily) "Using DistUpgradeViewNonInteractive causes output to be garbled." [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1538880
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1292335 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "do-release-upgrade crashed with AttributeError in run(): 'apt_pkg.PackageManager' object has no attribute 'ResultFailed'" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1292335
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1512326 in update-notifier (Ubuntu Wily) "Running apt-check --package-names returns an unknown error" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1512326
<bdmurray> foundations bug triage
<bdmurray> bileto / cupstream2distro sprint (LP: #1460861)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1460861 in CI Train [cu2d] "changelog entry for MP with multiple authors should summarize as [ author1, author2 [, ...] ], not repeat changelog for each author" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1460861
<bdmurray> â done
<slangasek> doko:
<doko> - gcc-5 update, Linaro merge
<doko> - gccgo-6
<doko> - ncurses transition
<doko> - more work on the openmpi transition
<doko> - cleaned up NBS (mostly)
<doko> - llvm-3.8 updates, make 3.8 the default
<doko> - java defaulting to 8 imported; filing bugs, fixing some issues
<doko> - pocketsphinx transition, finding unused unity-voice package, removed
<doko> - helping/fixing for the numpy transition
<doko> - finished some smaller transitions
<doko> - once all the default changes are migrated, planning the next test rebuild (hopefully with an updated glibc as well)
<doko> (done)
<caribou>  Bugfix :
<caribou>  - LP #1528101 - vm.min_free_kbytes crash issues
<caribou>    Solution would be overly complex for a corner case
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1528101 in kexec-tools (Ubuntu) "ISST-LTE: kdump failed: second kernel booting hangs after /scripts/init-bottom when large min_free_kbytes value being set" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1528101
<caribou>  - LP #1534106 - rsyslog segfault with juju
<caribou>    Fixed with rsyslog merge
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1534106 in rsyslog (Ubuntu) "rsyslogd crashed with SIGSEGV with juju-local configuration" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1534106
<caribou>  - Request backport for LP: #1494141 - haproxy 1.5 does not terminate to trusty
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1494141 in trusty-backports "Please backport haproxy 1.5.14-1ubuntu0.15.10.1 from wily-updates" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1494141
<caribou>  Development work:
<caribou>  - LP #1540537 - libvirt sponsorship
<caribou>  - LP: #1540491 - merge clamav
<caribou>  - LP: #1544503 - makedumpfile 1.5.9-5
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1540537 in libvirt (Ubuntu Vivid) "make ovs-vsctl not raise error if there's no portData available." [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1540537
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1540491 in clamav (Ubuntu) "Please merge clamav 0.99+dfsg-1 (main) from Debian stable" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1540491
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1544503 in trusty-backports "Please backport makedumpfile 1:1.5.9-5 (main) from xenial" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1544503
<caribou>  - LP: #1543636 - upload makedumpfile enablement for s390x + LZO
<caribou>  - Reviewed CVE for ntp merge
<caribou>  â Done
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1543636 in makedumpfile (Ubuntu) "makedumpfile: Enable s390x builds" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1543636
<slangasek> great!
<slangasek> any questions?
<cyphermox> ah, yes
<cyphermox> bdmurray: do we have a way to test upgrades with ubuntu-release-upgrader before we have a new release?
<cyphermox> I might want to better test the upgrade from CC.ports.ubuntu.com
<pitti> cyphermox: wasn't that what the -d option is for?
<cyphermox> (as things will try to match mirrors and stuff)
<cyphermox> pitti: upgrade from xenial to xenial+x
<slangasek> xxenial
<bdmurray> cyphermox: There are some manual ways to test new versions.
<cyphermox> since this change won't be in before xenial
<cyphermox> bdmurray: ok
<bdmurray> xenial+x?
<cyphermox> xenial+n if you prefer
<slangasek> xennial
<infinity> xennial!
<bdmurray> heh
<cyphermox> sigh.
<cyphermox> xenial + # then?
<pitti> cyphermox: why does it need to be u-r-u specifically?
<slangasek> cyphermox: why you have to take away our fun ;(
<infinity> #xenial #omg #nofilter
<cyphermox> u-r-u does some magic with mirrors
<cyphermox> ie. checking if it's official and such
<pitti> upgrade logic ought to be in postinsts as much as possible
<cyphermox> I suppose something else might do that too
<pitti> as a lot of people use apt directly
<cyphermox> I don't see why apt would fail at all
<cyphermox> this is simply about changing apt/sources.list
<infinity> pitti: Yeah, he's not talking about upgrades, per se, but u-r-u's weird mirror-handling.
<pitti> oh, ok (I didn't get *what* you wanted to test exactly)
<cyphermox> infinity: I knew there was something to do with #
<pitti> why would the mirror handling be any different from tâ x than xâ y?
<infinity> pitti: Due to adding support for cc.ports (where previously, it was just ports)
<infinity> But this should be easily testable.
<slangasek> pitti: what he's asking for is testing an upgrade using the new version of u-r-u
<infinity> And, honestly, I've been using us.ports for ages, and u-r-u has never exploded.
<pitti> I mean, cc.pots would also mirror trusty, or not?
<cyphermox> pitti: I have added $CC.ports.ubuntu.com, which might confuse u-r-u a tiny bit thinking it's not a blessed mirror
<cyphermox> pitti: sorry,
<cyphermox> pitti: added in choose-mirror, so it only will start to get used for xenial installs
<pitti> ah
<slangasek> right, so if infinity says it already works, maybe just hand-modify your trusty sources.list and test, cyphermox ?
<cyphermox> oh, good point.
<infinity> Well, "works".  I think that, right now, u-r-u believes that us.ports is a non-blessed mirror, but keeps it for lack of other mirrors in your sources.list
<cyphermox> ok
<infinity> It probably needs to be taught that it's official.
<infinity> So, yes, needs some testing.
<cyphermox> yeah I think that more or less matches what I understood of u-r-u code for this
<cyphermox> that's all I had really
<bdmurray> u-r-u checks the LP official mirrors
<bdmurray> oh and has some hard coded bits like ports.ubuntu.com and old-releases.ubuntu.com
<bdmurray> see data/mirrors.cfg
<cyphermox> yeah, but it didn't seem to matter
<bdmurray> it meaning what?
<infinity> The LP mirror list doesn't include all variations of CC.archive, so maybe this has always been a latent misfeature.
<cyphermox> fwiw my usual victim, ca.*.u.c wasn't in the list, so I expect things to work, I just want to be *sure*
<cyphermox> AOB?
<slangasek> other things
<slangasek> next Monday is a holiday in the US
<slangasek> not sure if people are taking it or not?
<infinity> Here too.
<slangasek> (I am)
<cyphermox> oh, is it?
<barry> i am too
<infinity> I'm swapping mine, because sprint.
<slangasek> infinity: you celebrate Presidents' Day?
<infinity> slangasek: No, "Family Day".
<bdmurray> I am taking it.
<cyphermox> ah, not a holiday in Quebec
<slangasek> infinity: why is your Family Day different than BC's?
<infinity> cyphermox: Yeah, but QC gets enough weird holidays. :P
<slangasek> estranged family?
<cyphermox> infinity: we don't care about families here, apparently?
<infinity> slangasek: Because BC is weird, it's the 15th for 6/10 provinces, the 8th for BC, and nothing for the other 3.
<infinity> slangasek: IMO, they're wrong, since it was Alberta that started it. :P
<slangasek> infinity: no, it's the 15th for only 4/10 provinces; Manitoba celebrates Louis Riel Day and PEI celebrates Islander Day, wikipedia tells me!
<infinity> slangasek: Well, yes, but same day!
<cyphermox> ah, Louis Riel day..
<infinity> Heritage Day somewhere too.
 * bdmurray ponders breakfast
<infinity> NS?
<cyphermox> yup
<slangasek> so parts of Canada and the US, off on Monday :)
<slangasek> anything else?
<doko> infinity, any estimate on glibc for xenial, or can you point to a ppa?
<infinity> doko: My PPA has bits with all the upstream code changes, remaining packaging changes should follow Very Soon.
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Feb 11 16:34:29 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-02-11-16.02.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks, all!
<pitti> thanks everyone
<cyphermox> thanks!
<barry> thanks!
<caribou> thanks!
<tdaitx> thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-02-12
<genii> *beams
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-02-06
<RadioZen>  Hello I have a question about installing .patch I googled it but I can't seem to figure it out. I downloaded https://patchwork.kernel.org/patch/7919851/ but I am such a newb that I don't know what to do... $ patch  PATCH doesn't work.
<tsimonq2> RadioZen: #ubuntu is for support, please go there :)
<RadioZen> thank you!
<tyhicks> hello
<tyhicks> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Feb  6 16:30:54 2017 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<tyhicks> there are no announcements today
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<tyhicks> jdstrand: you're up
<jdstrand> hi!
<jdstrand> - several big PR reviews, in particular around Personal (unity8, maliit), but also others
<jdstrand> - continue with seccomp arg filtering snappy policy (6 were sent up, more to come)
<jdstrand> - various other snappy policy updates
<jdstrand> - move to miscellaneous review tools updates as have time
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm i the happy place this week
<mdeslaur> I'm working on some updates
<mdeslaur> I'll pick more from the list after that
<mdeslaur> that's about it, sbeattie?
<sbeattie> I'm also in the happy place this week.
<sbeattie> I'll be focusing on updates this week.
<sbeattie> That's pretty much it for me.
<sbeattie> tyhicks: you're up
<tyhicks> I'm on community this week
<tyhicks> I need to prepare an apparmor SRU for bug 1661406
<ubottu> bug 1661406 in apparmor (Ubuntu Trusty) "apparmor failing to be purged on trusty" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1661406
<tyhicks> that's the only regression, due to the big SRU, that I'm aware of on Trusty but let me know if you want me to include any other changes in my upload
<tyhicks> it looks like I have a few good security sponsorings to do this week
<tyhicks> I'd still like to upload apparmor 2.11 to zesty
<tyhicks> I expect to have some followup discussions and some libseccomp work fall out of the seccomp kernel patches that I sent up last week
<tyhicks> I have a little bit of libvirt apparmor research to do around what it would take to dynamically update the policy when someone adjusts the disk image path via `virsh edit`
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> jj is out
<tyhicks> sarnold: you're up
<sarnold> I'm on bug triage this week, working my way down the MIRs; I'm very nearly finished with the mellon apache auth module, so advice on next one to start would be appreciated
<sarnold> that's it for me, chrisccoulson?
<chrisccoulson> I'm hoping to publish oxide updates this week. I was hoping to do it last week but they're blocked because I have to wait for the stable overlay PPA to be updated first
<chrisccoulson> I'll also probably have to do a firefox update again (there's another point release)
<chrisccoulson> I need to figure out why firefox crashes on arm, which currently prevents the build from completing
<jdstrand> tyhicks: talk to me about virsh edit. this sounds like something that libvirt should be handling already
<chrisccoulson> Other than that, I'll be working on bug 1638852
<ubottu> bug 1638852 in Oxide "Add touch selection handles and quick menu to UbuntuWebView" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1638852
<jdstrand> tyhicks: (ie, outside of this meeting)
<tyhicks> jdstrand: will do - thanks
<chrisccoulson> And no doubt I'll spend a bit of time crying about rust
<chrisccoulson> That's me done
<chrisccoulson> oh no
<ratliff> I'm on CVE triage this week
<tyhicks> chrisccoulson: looks like you're still expecting chromium-browser updates too
<chrisccoulson> 1 more thing
<chrisccoulson> Firefox/GCC4.9 on trusty doesn't run either, so I need to figure that out
<chrisccoulson> Really done now :)
<chrisccoulson> sorry
<ratliff> :-)
<ratliff> I'm triaging CVEs this week.
<chrisccoulson> tyhicks, ack
<ratliff> And still recovering from being sick.
<ratliff> I am still working on updates for core (15.04) and touch.
<ratliff> I will be out for 1/2 day on Friday.
<ratliff> back to you, tyhicks
<tyhicks> thanks
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/lib3ds.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/hesiod.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/newlib.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/teeworlds.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libssh2.html
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<tyhicks> jdstrand, mdeslaur, sbeattie, sarnold, ChrisCoulson, ratliff: Thanks!
<tyhicks> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Feb  6 16:44:48 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-02-06-16.30.moin.txt
<sbeattie> tyhicks: thanks!
<sarnold> thanks tyhicks!
<ratliff> thank you, tyhicks!
<mdeslaur> thanks tyhicks
<jdstrand> thanks tyhicks :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-02-07
<cpaelzer> o/ ?
<rbasak> o/
<jgrimm> o/
<jgrimm> curtin/cloud-init sprint happening right now, so will have lighter than usual participation
<cpaelzer> jgrimm: rharper is with you and chairing today - are yuo taking over?
<jgrimm> cpaelzer, yeah, i can run it today. .. rharper trying to rework some code for landing
<jgrimm> apologies while i get myself a bit organized
<cpaelzer> all fine if you beat rbasak ~13.5 minutes of last time
<cpaelzer> :-P
<jgrimm> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Feb  7 16:04:27 2017 UTC.  The chair is jgrimm. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<jgrimm> hi folks!  will be a light turnout as handful of server folks are sprinting on cloud-init/curtin atm
<jgrimm> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<rbasak> For reference, http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-01-31-16.00.html is the last meeting.
<rbasak> No action points there.
<rbasak> I'll talk about minuting later :)
<jgrimm> rbasak, ok i was about to ask you
<jgrimm> thanks!
<jgrimm> moving on then!
<jgrimm> #topic Zesty Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Zesty Development
<jgrimm> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ZestyZapus/ReleaseSchedule
<jgrimm> FeatureFreeze one week away!
<jgrimm> anyone want to talk about anything explicitly?
<rbasak> I've stuck squid3 and monitoring-plugins merges for review in the queue, if anyone has time.
<rbasak> monitoring-plugins is relatively trivial.
<rbasak> squid3 is complex but I'm reasonably confident about it now.
<cpaelzer> I got as far as "opening the browser tab" :-/
<rbasak> I've got some others to do. Remember to use "grep-merges" to see what you touched last.
<rbasak> I intend to post the MPs for everything, but upload if nobody gets round to reviewing.
<rbasak> Do we have any complex merges remaining?
<jgrimm> nacc reviewed moin, openvpn, and python-boto for me.. i need ot rework moin, openvpn for some mostly trivial to address comments
<cpaelzer> rbasak: for review you mean?
<rbasak> cpaelzer: by remaining I mean no MP yet.
<cpaelzer> ok, no not from me then
<rbasak> I see quite a bit INPROGRESS in the blueprint.
<jgrimm> rbasak, yes.. i'd like to understand status from everyone on INPROGRESS
<jgrimm> its not a terribly long list
<jgrimm> but just to make sure on target
<rbasak> jgrimm: that's a good idea. Do you want to run through them one by one?
<rbasak> Or just a report by-owner?
<jgrimm> maybe by owner is more efficient
<rbasak> There are also some unassigned TODOs that are FF-sensitive.
<cpaelzer> I need to recheck on liblockfile
<jgrimm> rbasak, some of those are 'nice to haves', where i think that is true i'll probably move out of the list
<jgrimm> cpaelzer, would you like to go first
<cpaelzer> for DPDK you all have seen my current stalling on ubuntu-devel
<cpaelzer> qemu is stuck on a nova test, but coreycb and zul look into that
<rbasak> So for me: squid3: done, MP pending. monitoring-plugins not listed but also done, MP pending. I have capacity now. I was going to hit up as much as I could remaining.
<cpaelzer> all else done
<rbasak> I noticed a minor dovecot bump in Debian that could do with re-merging (upstream microrelease).
<jgrimm> #https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-z-server-core
<jgrimm> rbasak, i asked cpaelzer to take dovecot remerge
<rbasak> OK.
<coreycb> zul, you still working on that ^^?
<zul> coreycb: sort of...still cant reproduce it out of autopkgtest
<rbasak> Also, I want to gather all the upload tags and get them into the importer repo. I have an item on my todo to sort that. So if everyone could just keep their outstanding ones lying around somewhere ready for my collection, that'd be great :)
<nacc> rbasak: it's relatively important to do that promptly now
<coreycb> cpaelzer, we'll get to it, we're way backed up on openstack release stuff
<nacc> rbasak: as the importer will not integrate them at import-time if they're not there, and it's running automatically
<rbasak> nacc: I'm not too worried if they don't get integrated, as long as they're there.
<cpaelzer> I found my liblockfile status - in fact I tihnk it can become a sync
<rbasak> If we do really want them integrated now, then we should sort where they're being collected from ASAP.
<nacc> rbasak: ok, just makes re-merging non-trivial :)
<cpaelzer> but the remaining Delta is all about special cross compilation, and the new versions are iterating fast
<jgrimm> cpaelzer, i'll trust you are on it.
<cpaelzer> that said I sent to infinity and doko but didn't hear yet
<cpaelzer> currently I'd think we better keep it stable as it was for 5 years and sync early next cycle
<cpaelzer> I get in touch with both again to get an ack on that
<jgrimm> cpaelzer, ack
<jgrimm> rbasak, did you have anything else.
<rbasak> No that's all from me.
<rbasak> Oh
<jgrimm> rbasak, will you pick up some of the untaken packages then?
<rbasak> What about the unassigned work items that are FF sensitive?
<rbasak> Right.
<rbasak> Sure. Shall I take one at a time, so as not to lock out others who might have capacity?
 * nacc is working on ldb/samba today
<rbasak> Since I haven't looked at how big they are yet.
<nacc> as we have a critical bug on samba
<jgrimm> rbasak, nss, libpam-mount, and sorting the sssd related MIR seem to be the last bits unowned
<rbasak> OK
<jgrimm> the numad for qemu is essentially DONE
<jgrimm> i just need to fix the blueprint to reflect, and as nacc said he is already working on ldb
<jgrimm> so.. we have owners for most items.. that being said, i probably need to rescan what has come in since I last refreshed the list
<nacc> jgrimm: yeah, sorry, have been heads-down on iscsi, will focus on getting caught up on merges the rest of the week and then bugs next week
<jgrimm> nacc, thanks.. right we want to hit the merges hard this week for FF deadline
<jgrimm> caribou, around?
<caribou> yes
<jgrimm> nut merge?
<caribou> didn't have time to look at it, sorry
<jgrimm> caribou, no worries. just wanted to see if its still on your radar.. able to get in before FF?
<caribou> jgrimm: hoping so but UA workload is rather heavy these days
<jgrimm> caribou, do you recall whether its big/little effort?
<caribou> jgrimm: yes, not that big
<jgrimm> i know it has been a long time since you've looked at it, but gauging whether its worth someone else picking up
<jgrimm> caribou, ok.. i can snag it if you'd like?
<jgrimm> you can be a reviewer! :)
<caribou> jgrimm: I think that rbasak had already had a look at the merge and there was a tag missing or something
<caribou> lemme check
<jgrimm> caribou, ok, yes if its close that would be nice to knock out
 * rbasak doesn't recall
<jgrimm> rbasak, was early in cycle iirc
<jgrimm> rbasak, oh there is the MIR bug you opened against parallax to look at too
<jgrimm> rbasak, MIR or otherwise resolve parallax (LP: #1653959): TODO
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1653959 in parallax (Ubuntu) "[MIR] parallax, dependency of crmsh" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1653959
<rbasak> Yeah that does need sorting.
<jgrimm> caribou, we can come back to you at the end wrt what to do with 'nut'
<caribou> jgrimm: btw, the MIR for tomsfastmath should turn the clamav merge into a straight sync
<jgrimm> caribou, oh.. i thought that was done already
<jgrimm> still universe. :(
<cpaelzer> well it only gets to main once something pulls it in
<cpaelzer> what is the status of the mir itself?
<jgrimm> caribou, Fix Committed!
<jgrimm> so my memory isn't failing me as bad as i thought
<cpaelzer> so that should me one could trigger the sync now right?
<jgrimm> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tomsfastmath/+bug/1619239
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1619239 in tomsfastmath (Ubuntu) "[MIR] tomsfastmath (runtime dependency of clamav)" [High,Fix committed]
<jgrimm> cpaelzer, sounds good
<caribou> jgrimm: yes, but what is triggering the move from Universe to Main ?
<rbasak> Is that MIR actually ready to go?
<rbasak> It's not clear to me from the bug comments.
<rbasak> I'll ask in #ubuntu-devel.
<rbasak> But if it is, then we just sync, right?
<jgrimm> i believe that is what caribou is saying
<cpaelzer> caribou: in case it is read the upload of something in main that depends on it will cause a component mismatch, but the AA will find the MIR and move it (experts please trump my knowledge here)
<cpaelzer> s/read/ready/
<rbasak> Right.
<jgrimm> ok.. anything else for FF milestone?
<jgrimm> caribou, you'll let me know about 'nut' offline?
<jgrimm> whether you can push it along, or prefer someone else to carry forward
<caribou> jgrimm: yep, I'm on it
<powersj> here's my update: htop MIR is in security review; iotop, nicstat MIR are done, need to add to seed; curtin SRU exception is in review by folks on the team; ISO sizes still seem to be below limits; etckeeper merge to be done hopefully this week :)
<jgrimm> powersj, hold on hoss
<nacc> heh
<jgrimm> ok, now powersj!
<jgrimm> :)
<jgrimm> anyone else i missed
<jgrimm> smb, how is xen?
<smb> jgrimm, probably still waiting on a bunch of things
<smb> there is a 4.8 in proposed for zesty
<jgrimm> smb, ack.. thanks
<jgrimm> ok, anyone else with blueprint/FF related items or discussion?
<jgrimm> ...3...2...1...
<caribou> jgrimm: I can update on 'nut'
<caribou> :)
<jgrimm> ha!
<jgrimm> go
<caribou> https://code.launchpad.net/~louis-bouchard/ubuntu/+source/nut/+git/nut/+merge/311471
<caribou> there was some tag mismatch that I fixed in a new branch, but for some reason another one seems to be missing
<jgrimm> rbasak, nacc ^^ any recommendations
<caribou> jgrimm: well, rbasak ask to push a new MP, I'll try to do it by EOW
<jgrimm> caribou, great! thank you
<jgrimm> #subtopic Release Bugs
<jgrimm> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-z-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<nacc> jgrimm: afaict, simple typo and then use of `usd tag` and then a push of tags should fix rbasak's linter
<jgrimm> nacc, gotcha
<jgrimm> anything on zesty bug list for discussion
<jgrimm> nacc, i need to follow-up on python-django as we seem to be at an impasse
<nacc> caribou: i would also suggest deleting those incorrect tags in the process (`git push lpusip :tags/{deconstruct,logical}/2.7.4-4ubuntu1`
<nacc> jgrimm: ack, i don't think i've seen any movement on that bug
<cpaelzer> sorry interrupt here, I need to drop
<jgrimm> nacc, maybe take git-workflow tooling discussion out to #ubuntu-devel
<jgrimm> cpaelzer, ok, will take interrupt from you.. i'm assuming for SRU status
<caribou> nacc: there is a _v2 branch with what should be the correct tags, but one seems to be missing
<cpaelzer> progress on libvirt, libvirt (next SRU), and strongswan
<nacc> caribou: oh ok, sorry, didn't realize that
<cpaelzer> qemu waiting for merge to complete
<cpaelzer> cu
<jgrimm> caribou, please take that thread out to #ubuntu-devel
<caribou> jgrimm: k
<jgrimm> cpaelzer, is that it?
<jgrimm> by your cu, i'm assuming you left the building. :)
<jgrimm> ok, getting back on track to the agenda
<jgrimm> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs & SRU/Pending Uploads (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs & SRU/Pending Uploads (caribou)
<caribou> #info SRU are pending for : os-prober, ifupdown, systemd, multipath-tools, qemu, sosreport
<jgrimm> caribou, anything new in that list?
<caribou> jgrimm: I think that the systemd is
<caribou> jgrimm: no, that one was there last week
<caribou> jgrimm: so no, don't think so
<jgrimm> caribou,  ok great!
<jgrimm> anything for discussion here from anyone?
<jgrimm> cool, thanks Louis!
<caribou> np
<jgrimm> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
<powersj> Last week, finished getting ppc64el ISO testing operational. Have 3 failures working through: raid1, lvm, multi-lvm. These are test issues, not actual failures yet. arm64 node is now running tests on jenkins. Few test merge requests for curtin and cloud-init.
<powersj> This week, sprinting with cloud-init/curtin folks. Getting those merge reqeusts in and getting the SRU exception for curtin reviewed. Expanding curtin's vmtests to run on ppc64el and s390x. Finally, trying my first merge with jgrimm.
<jgrimm> \o/
<jgrimm> questions for powersj?
<jgrimm> #link https://jenkins.ubuntu.com/server/
<jgrimm> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
<smb> Nothing new yet for zesty. Xenial point release delayed a bit / currently working on clearing up dkms list to build with 4.8 kernels in xenial. Are there questions?
<jgrimm> anyone?
<jgrimm> thanks smb!
<jgrimm> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Upcoming Call For Papers
<jgrimm> #link https://lwn.net/Calendar/Monthly/cfp/
<jgrimm> netdev CFP deadline on Feb 20
<jgrimm> anything else?
<jgrimm> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<jgrimm> as mentioned previously, handful of folks sequestered away for a cloud-init/curtin sprint in austin. :)
<xnox> powersj, but we did have vmtests running on s390x already =) or has that regressed?
<jgrimm> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<rbasak> o/
<powersj> xnox: we have not been running them, and learned yesterday that zipl is not getting installed in images.
<rbasak> I'd like to cut some red tape on doing minutes. As you know, I have quite a backlog.
<rbasak> I propose to change https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server into a manual list.
<rbasak> Containing just URLs to the MeetBot automatic minutes.
<rbasak> So all we need to do to prepare minutes in future is add that link.
<jgrimm> rbasak, downsides?
<rbasak> And rely on MeetBot to generate them sensibly, and for the chair to use the #info and related commands much more to fill it out.
<rbasak> I don't really see any downsides. The full log is generated by MeetBot and still available.
<xnox> powersj, fun
<rbasak> I suppose we'd have a dependency on ubottu.com.
<rbasak> We will no longer have an opportunity to edit the minutes later.
<rbasak> But I don't think we care enough about it anyway. The full logs will always be present for anyone confused.
<jgrimm> rbasak, i'm not opposed..
<rbasak> I'll JFDI then.
<rbasak> It'll save chair effort later.
<jgrimm> rbasak, let's try it..
<jgrimm> and if we don't like it, we can go back
<rbasak> Sounds good, thanks.
<jgrimm> i'm all for eliminating busy work
<jgrimm> any one else?   wrt rbasak proposal, or other business?
<nacc> seems reasonable to me
<jgrimm> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<jgrimm> Same bat-time, same bat-channel.  Feb 14
<jgrimm> and chair is..rharper
<jgrimm> :)
<jgrimm> thanks everyone
<jgrimm> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Feb  7 16:54:22 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-02-07-16.04.moin.txt
<powersj> thanks!
<caribou> thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-02-08
<__szilard> __szilard, ping
<sarnold> testing
<sarnold> __szilard: testing
<sarnold> testing __szilard
<szil> __szilard: hi
<__szilard> szil, hi
<szil> __szilard: hi
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-02-09
<sil2100> o/
<robru> o_
<cyphermox> hullo
<tdaitx> hmm, slangasek was out right?
<sil2100> Yeah
<caribou> 'joru
<caribou> 'jour
<barry> and no gaughen it looks like.  plus mumble is very lonely
<cyphermox> yeah
<barry> #endmeeting
<sil2100> That was a very fruitful meeting!
<barry> the most productive all year!
<robru> Yay
<sil2100> Yeah, so productive that I need to take a few days off now
<sil2100> phew
<xnox> please test 16.04.2
 * barry -> reboots
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-02-05
<tyhicks> hello
<mdeslaur> \o
<tyhicks> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Feb  5 16:36:58 2018 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<tyhicks> jdstrand: you're up
<tyhicks> mdeslaur: go ahead and we'll come back to Jamie
<mdeslaur> I'm on community this week
<mdeslaur> I'm about to publish systemd and squid3 updates
<mdeslaur> and I will then do a final round of testing on qemu and libvirt before publishing them
<nacc> mdeslaur: ping re:php7.0 as well
<mdeslaur> nacc: ah yes, I'll work on that after, thanks
<mdeslaur> that's it, sbeattie, you're up
<nacc> mdeslaur: thank you
<sbeattie> I'm on bug triage this week
<sbeattie> I'm still working on my gcc-4.6 retpoline backports
<tyhicks> sbeattie: and we need to do some revert uploads to artful and xenial
<sbeattie> I also have to yank the ppc64el changes for xenial based on IBM's advice (I already did so for gcc7, in the security proposed ppa)
<sbeattie> tyhicks: yeah.
<tyhicks> sbeattie: gcc-7 is ready for me to review/sponsor?
<sbeattie> Also, apparently there's some cross-compilers that need to be is sync.
<tyhicks> oh, right
<sbeattie> tyhicks: let me double check the test-results packages, but should be..
<tyhicks> ok, I'll hold off
<sbeattie> I need to look a the libreoffice test failure that popped with the xenial gcc in proposed.
<sbeattie> and I need to do some additional verification of the 4.8 backport before it goes into proposed.
<sbeattie> (I did point the kernel team at it, but I don't know if htey've used it to build anything)
<sbeattie> Anyway, that will likely consume my week.
 * jdstrand is here. sorry-- was pulled aside
<tyhicks> jdstrand: go ahead
<sbeattie> Oh I might look at what it would take to enable by default for bionic and start some test builds.
 * sbeattie is really done
<jdstrand> ok, I'll go
<tyhicks> sbeattie: ah, that would be nice
<jdstrand> This week I plan to:
<jdstrand> - catch up on email and prioritize/put into trello various snapcraft summit outcomes
<jdstrand> - continue to be responsive to snapd PRs (in particular, layouts and portals)
<jdstrand> - finish up review-tools updates and request store sync
<jdstrand> - pickup steam-support investigation
<jdstrand> - pickup stacking demo
<jdstrand> - lxd snap regression wrt confinement as have time
<jdstrand> - org.gnome.ScreenCast interface as have time
<jdstrand> - strict mode snaps on livecd as have time
<jdstrand> that's it from me. I think tyhicks is next?
<tyhicks> I should finally get a chance to work on the LSM stacking demo this week
<tyhicks> I also have several embargoed issues
<tyhicks> jj is out
<tyhicks> sarnold: go ahead
<sarnold> i'm in the happy place this week
<sarnold> I'm working on the papi mir, will finish that soonish, then move on down the list, I'm thinking openjpeg2 next
<sarnold> that's it for me, chrisccoulson?
<chrisccoulson> I've got a chromium update to test and publish
<chrisccoulson> I'm also investigating some rustc test failures. I'd like to think that won't swallow the entire week, but I'm not that hopeful
<tyhicks> :(
<chrisccoulson> then once I'm finished with rust, I need to update cargo
<chrisccoulson> I think that's me done
<ratliff> I'm on CVE triage this week.
<ratliff> I got the historic CVE triage data imported into influxdb with kpi charts created. Now I want to experiment with other ways of looking at the data. Also decide which of the other charts to move over to influxdb
<ratliff> I have a few internal assignments that will take up a large part of my time.
<ratliff> on to you, leosilva
<leosilva> I'm in the happy place this week
<leosilva> Just finished my clamav update and pushed it few minutes ago...
<leosilva> other than that I'll keep my hunting during the week and update packges.
<leosilva> that's it for me,
<leosilva> tyhicks: it's up to you
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team suggests that contributors look into merging Debian security updates in community-supported packages. If you would like to help Ubuntu but are not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so. See http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/d2u/ for available merges and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details on preparing Ubuntu security
<tyhicks> updates. If you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-hardened. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<tyhicks> jdstrand, mdeslaur, sbeattie, sarnold, ChrisCoulson, ratliff, leosilva: Thanks!
<tyhicks> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Feb  5 16:57:15 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-02-05-16.36.moin.txt
<leosilva> tks tyhicks !
<ratliff> thank you, tyhicks!
<jdstrand> tyhicks: thanks!
<sarnold> thanks tyhicks!
<mdeslaur> thanks tyhicks!
<sbeattie> tyhicks: thanks
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-02-08
 * slangasek waves
<sil2100> o/
<rbalint> o/
<cyphermox> o/
<philroche> o/
<Odd_Bloke> \o
<philroche> Damn it Odd_Bloke! we're waving with our left hand this week
<slangasek> sorry, running late on a prior meeting
 * slangasek shuffles papers
<Odd_Bloke> philroche: I'm facing the other way.
<cyphermox> philroche: wasn't that our right hand?
<xnox> "the other side of the hangout" =)
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Feb  8 16:04:03 2018 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e slangasek bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity cyphermox mwhudson rcj philroche Odd_Bloke tribaal fginther juliank)
<gaughen> o/
<slangasek> doko mwhudson juliank cyphermox rcj rbalint xnox sil2100 philroche Odd_Bloke slangasek infinity bdmurray tdaitx fginther tribaal
<slangasek> doko: hello!
<doko> oops
<doko> - FOSDEM Free Java track
<doko> - spent most of the time working on migration ...
<doko> - GCC 8 uploaded, binutils fixed (arm64 kernel builds)
<doko> - some phone calls this week
<doko> (done)
<slangasek> juliank:
<juliank> merges / syncs:
<juliank> - wget: just a new upstream minor release
<juliank> - dash: dropping the profiled guiding patches, as there's no measurable gain anymore with systemd booting us
<juliank> uploaded fixes / features:
<juliank> - multipath-tools: fixed kpartx regression breaking image builds (bug 1747044)
<juliank> - ubuntu-release-upgrader: only add valid releases (bug 1744722)
<juliank> - util-linux: backported lscpu fixes, but blocked by other upload stuck in proposed (bug 1732865)
<juliank> - software-properties: run apt-get update
<ubottu> bug 1747044 in multipath-tools (Ubuntu) "kpartx 0.7.4-2ubuntu1 in bionic does not remove loop devices" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1747044
<ubottu> bug 1744722 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Artful) "Unknown bad source brings up during 'zesty' to 'artful' upgrade and It break the process" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1744722
<ubottu> bug 1732865 in util-linux (Ubuntu Xenial) "[LTCTest][OPAL][FW860.20] lscpu failed to list cpu max and min frequencies" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1732865
<juliank> needs review:
<juliank> - ubuntu-release-upgrader: double check source release https://code.launchpad.net/~juliank/ubuntu-release-upgrader/double-check-source-release/+merge/337258 (bug 1725359)
<juliank> - grub2: show shorter version on screen, hide complete one in variable https://code.launchpad.net/~juliank/grub/+git/ubuntu/+merge/337338 (bug 1723434)
<juliank> - socat, pv: MIRs. socat might be hard - it overlaps a lot with netcat, previous attempt was cancelled (bug 1746891 [pv])
<ubottu> bug 1725359 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "release detection relies on lsb-release" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1725359
<ubottu> bug 1723434 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "grub2 splash screen displays excessively long package version number" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1723434
<ubottu> bug 1746891 in pv (Ubuntu) "[MIR] pv" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1746891
<juliank> WiP stuff (upstreams):
<juliank> - apt: (1) Make it check that 'Date' is not from the future; (2) Switch to C++14, and some cleanup
<juliank> - multipath-tools: Forwarding the patches for the regression upstream, needs some rework
<juliank> I guess I should get that stuck apt SRU from last year forward too.
<juliank> (done)
<sil2100> This mwhudson guy, always missing our weekly meetings...
<sil2100> Shame on him
<xnox> juliank, the overlap is known.... is it possible to use netcat on the images that use socat, per chance?
<cyphermox> - debugging grub2 tftp with slangasek
<cyphermox> - netplan: added bash completion
<cyphermox> - netplan: upstream systemd work to support keeping an interface offline but configured at boot
<cyphermox> - debugging ubuntu-server:live build w/ preinstalled subiquity snap
<cyphermox> - juju-core SRU of 2.3.2 to xenial
<cyphermox> - MIR: reviewing libfastjson
<cyphermox> - various cat herding / administrativia
<cyphermox> (done)
<juliank> xnox: I guess somebody else knows more about that :)
<rbalint> (short week)
<rbalint> * fix opengcs FTBFS (upstreamed): LP: #1746697
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1746697 in opengcs (Ubuntu) "Opengcs FTBFS on 32 bit architectures" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1746697
<rbalint> * fixed tests for mtd-utils (#889868), now it is in proper shape for MIR
<rbalint> * internal image testing and testbed setup follow-ups
<rbalint> (done)
<bdmurray> xnox: your turn
<xnox> #HIGHLIGHT openssl1.1.0 is landing in Ubuntu
<xnox> Upgrading opencryptoki to 3.8.2
<xnox> Upgrading systemd to 237 (autopkgtests fixing stage)
<xnox> Ubuntu-keyring now ships more keys - e.g. cloud images, simplestreams, dbg
<xnox> Keyboard step moved earlier in ubiquity (with sil2100)
<xnox> (done)
<bdmurray> sil2100:
<sil2100> - SRU reviews and releases
<sil2100> - Stable kernel reviews and releases (retpoline incoming)
<sil2100> - Fixing and testing autopilot tests for the early-keyboard ubiquity branch
<sil2100>   * Released by xnox
<sil2100> - Fixing the ppp FTBFS after the openssl1.1 rebuild
<sil2100> - walinuxagent:
<sil2100>   * Preparing, testing and releasing for bionic
<sil2100>   * Backporting to stable series, pre-SRU testing, getting approved
<sil2100>   * Phil prepared test images, waiting for MS to do their testing
<sil2100> - Fixing the packageset refreshing scripts for bionic
<sil2100> - Updating the kubuntu packageset as per request
<sil2100> - Clean-up of unverified xenial language-packs from -proposed
<sil2100> - Preparing branch for KPI metrics for canonical-foundations bugs
<sil2100> - Some ubuntu-image discussions with Loic
<sil2100> (done)
<bdmurray> sil2100: Are you using Influx DB?
<philroche> * Cloud image build system Vanguard
<bdmurray> philroche:
<philroche> * Cloud image build system maintenance & development
<philroche> * walinuxagent testing
<philroche> * Released ubuntu-watch-packages snap
<philroche> (done)
<Odd_Bloke> * (POTENTIAL HIGHLIGHT) Backported upstream code to move Vagrant from using Atlas to Vagrant Cloud for boxes, due to Atlas API endpoints being shut down (https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1747426); community testing of the fixes strongly encouraged
<bdmurray> Odd_Bloke:
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1747426 in cloud-images "Vagrant <2.x can no longer fetch box metadata from Hashicorp" [Undecided,New]
<Odd_Bloke> * Spent some time helping the MAAS team fix a bug with deploying precise images (for ESM customers)
<Odd_Bloke> * Filed a bug I found while using bionic: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1748029
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1748029 in mutter (Ubuntu) "Dragging and dropping a window in the top bar causes GNOME shell to become unusable" [Undecided,New]
<Odd_Bloke> * A variety of partner work
<Odd_Bloke> (done)
<sil2100> bdmurray: no, the old prometheus thing as with all the original metrics - is that not a thing anymore?
<Odd_Bloke> slangasek:
<bdmurray> sil2100: that's not the new hotness
<xnox> Odd_Bloke, +!
<sil2100> Damn...
<xnox> Odd_Bloke, +1
<bdmurray> sil2100: lets talk after this
<Odd_Bloke> xnox: +1 to...?
<xnox> mutter bug about dragging things
<rbalint> Odd_Bloke: it is for you, personally :-)
<Odd_Bloke> xnox: I think I'm on X, not Wayland.
<slangasek>  * proposed-migration: trying to unstick the world
<slangasek>  * autopkgtests: shepherding the infrastructure
<slangasek>   * BOS01 compute moved to BOS02 for a redeploy of BOS01 region
<slangasek>   * Tracked various glitches that were causing test runners to die
<slangasek>   * Optimized the arm64 runners to give them a boost, now the runner setup takes < 3m per dispatch instead of 8+m
<Odd_Bloke> Because we aren't shipping Wayland as the default in bionic.
<slangasek>  * closed out on grub2 tftp (LP: #1743249)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1743249 in MAAS "High IO on the system prevents MAAS to provide PXE config in a timely manner (less than 30 secs)" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1743249
<slangasek>  * discussions around retpoline in 18.04
<slangasek>  * discussions around openjdk security support in 18.04
<slangasek> (done)
 * xnox needs to doublecheck what i am running
 * fginther wishes he knew about that BOS01 thing yesterday
<bdmurray> irc discussion with web ops re: mojo spec and certs and sm-cert
<bdmurray> irc discussion with webops regarding sm-cert and its usage
<bdmurray> tested sm-cert with daisy.staging.u.com errors.staging.u.com
<bdmurray> modified mojo spec to use certs created by sm-cert
<bdmurray> submitted RT re review of latest ET mojo spec MP
<bdmurray> modified (and tested) mojo spec MP after reviewer feedback
<bdmurray> submitted RT re request for pagerduty account
<bdmurray> setup pagerduty account for ET monitoring
<bdmurray> submitted RT regarding ET mojo spec setup in CI
<bdmurray> dug into apport test failure w/ new gdb and fixed it (string change)
<bdmurray> bug triage of apport bug LP: #1746874
<bdmurray> modified bug-bot to tag bugs v-failed-$release for slangasek
<bdmurray> modified w.u.c/EndOfLifeProcess for fixing rmadison
<bdmurray> created an image sizes KPI and submitted a PR for it
<bdmurray> irc dicsussions w/ OddBloke and powersj re: Influx DB vs prometheus
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1746874 in apport (Ubuntu) "gnome-shell and Xwayland sometimes leave $HOME/core files (should be /var/crash files)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1746874
<bdmurray> submitted RT re: Influx DB credentials
<slangasek> fginther: how do you mean?  I saw MPs last week requesting to move the cloud tests from BOS01 to BOS02 and I thought they landed
<bdmurray> modified cloud image sizes KPI to use Influx DB and then to use special time field
<bdmurray> submitted PR re: jenkins job for cloud image sizes KPI
<bdmurray> backfilled cloud image sizes in Influx DB
<bdmurray> done
<bdmurray> made a pretty graph of cloud image sizes
<bdmurray> investigation into fetchmail, dnscrypt-proxy for LP: 1713803
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1713803 in android-androresolvd (Ubuntu) "replacement of resolvconf with systemd needs integration" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1713803
<tdaitx> Short week: half-days this week, out tomorrow [1] flying back home
<tdaitx> * At Fosdem in the  free java sessions
<tdaitx> * Sorting out what Oracle means about OpenJDK support
<tdaitx> * Testing the armhf port for 8u161
<tdaitx> * Checking openjdk 9/10 support for packages on main (libreoffice/tomcat)
<tdaitx> * Started investigating possible sources of binary incompatibilities between java packages build with 8 and running on openjdk 9 and/or 10
<tdaitx> [1] Note: the domestic leg got moved to the next day, I might be taking new flights altogether
<tdaitx> (done)
 * juliank runs gnome session on X and it hangs a lot for a few seconds each.
<fginther> slangasek, those MP only moved one of the arches over, there was still one left on BOS01 this week
<slangasek> fginther: mm.
<slangasek> fginther: you can tell us more about it now, it's your turn
<fginther> * Out sick Monday
<fginther> * Cloud-image vanguard
<fginther> * Debugged a bionic image build issue: lp: #1747044
<fginther> * Updated cloud tests to tolerate a specific platform anomaly
<fginther> * Shared some jenkins best practices in a discussion with three other teams doing CI and test automation
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1747044 in multipath-tools (Ubuntu) "kpartx 0.7.4-2ubuntu1 in bionic does not remove loop devices" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1747044
<fginther> * Writing tests for partner cloud image publication code
<fginther> * Investigating work needed for a new image build
<fginther> * feeling sad about BOS01
<fginther> (done)
<tribaal> * Snowboarding most of the week. Mountains <3
<tribaal> * Still upgrading our build infrastructure to use snaps.
<tribaal> (done)
<slangasek> questions on status?
<bdmurray> nope
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
<slangasek> [LINK] http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<doko> snowboarding!
<bdmurray> I tagged 3 bug reports this week for that list
<slangasek> so there's a 6-digit bug marked critical
<Odd_Bloke> Snowboarding is a feature, not a bug, doko. ;)
<bdmurray> bug 940030
<ubottu> bug 940030 in rsyslog (Ubuntu) "rsyslog stops working after logrotate until restarted" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/940030
<juliank> Interesting. We should check what the somewhat-blocked 8.32 does
<slangasek> I call shenanigans on that bug, my rsyslog is working fine post-rotation
<juliank> I don't have a /var/log/syslog
<xnox> slangasek, hmmm.... why do we default to rsyslog, instead of syslog-ng with the journal plugin?
<juliank> did we drop it?
<slangasek> oh, but *not* /var/log/syslog
<juliank> What no, I do
<cyphermox> rsyslog and /var/log/syslog work well here.
<slangasek> bdmurray: +1 for sorting this out, it should be a quick fix
<xnox> slangasek, or why have rsyslog, if journald provides /var/log/syslog facility by itself too
<slangasek> xnox: why not bikeshed?
<juliank> If we could get rid of rsyslog in main
<juliank> it would solve our problem with it depending on fastjson now :D
<slangasek> xnox: you mean the syslog-ng that's been stuck in -proposed for a release cycle, right?
<cyphermox> juliank: replacing it with something else with still requiring MIRing something
<xnox> slangasek, heh
<slangasek> anyway, taking 940030 for the stack; yes it wants follow-through
<juliank> cyphermox: yeah, but hopefully not a second library, a fork of something we have
<cyphermox> juliank: meh
<cyphermox> slangasek: was there another bug?
<slangasek> bdmurray: what else?
<bdmurray> bug 1089195
<ubottu> bug 1089195 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "linux-headers will eat your inodes on LTS." [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1089195
<xnox> ouch
<juliank> I think there's a more general autoremoval thing for that
<rbalint> imo we should take that, i'm working on update-manager to remove newly unused packages
<slangasek> that sounds like a straight duplicate of the kernel autoremoval bug
<cyphermox> +1
<rbalint> slangasek: yes, mostly
<juliank> It is precisely the bug rbalint is working on, yes
<juliank> well headers instead of kernels, but that makes no difference
<slangasek> not mostly, if the work on kernel autoremovals doesn't exactly fix this bug then the work on kernel autoremovals is incomplete
<rbalint> it is almost the same, because the existing headers are not newly unused, but i would like to covert that, too, yes
<juliank> I also have that stuff on my apt auto-auto-removal idea thing
<slangasek> can someone who knows where the lead bug is for that work dupe this to it?
<juliank> rbalint: that applies to the kernel images too
<slangasek> juliank, rbalint: can one of you find the bug to dupe this to, and we'll move on?
<rbalint> juliank: yes
<slangasek> bdmurray: next?
<bdmurray> bug 1746874
<ubottu> bug 1746874 in apport (Ubuntu) "gnome-shell and Xwayland sometimes leave $HOME/core files (should be /var/crash files)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1746874
<juliank> slangasek: done
<bdmurray> "Xwayland and gnome-shell are co-dependent processes. If one crashes then the other will also crash. So we need apport to be capable of handling both crashes simultaneously.
<rbalint> juliank: done by, me, too :-)
<juliank> rbalint: lol
<slangasek> bdmurray: huh
<cyphermox> wow
<bdmurray> because apport is already running it aborts
<slangasek> bdmurray: that's an interesting symptom, yes let's follow up
<slangasek> (claiming)
<cyphermox> weird, I would have thought you'd just have a second apport running in that case
<bdmurray> Its trying to stop the system from being dos'ed
<slangasek> cyphermox: bug suggests that because core_use_pid isn't set, something (kernel or apport) treats them as identical
<cyphermox> yeah
 * juliank pretends its a kernel bug
<slangasek> anyway, claimed
<bdmurray> What no
<bdmurray> ERROR: apport (pid 1946) Mon Feb 5 12:05:58 2018: another apport instance is already running, aborting
<cyphermox> slangasek: yes
<juliank> bdmurray: so it's an apport feature :D
<cyphermox> well, I'm surprised at that, because you could conceivable have more than one process crash very close to each other.
<juliank> it should queue them up I guess
<slangasek> xnox: LP: #1739672 is still in 'incoming' and only marked triaged, is that fix-committed yet or not?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1739672 in systemd (Ubuntu) "Regression in getaddrinfo(): calls block for much longer on Bionic (compared to Xenial), please disable LLMNR" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1739672
<bdmurray> "This avoids bringing down the system to its knees if there is a series of crashes"
<cyphermox> and all that it's doing is the pipe thing to start apport
<juliank> but you probably do want some crash dropping?
<bdmurray> So it was deliberate choice by that guy
<slangasek> man, that guy
<cyphermox> heh
<xnox> slangasek, i have been pinged to fix that in person at fosdem too. I have removed the tag, does that make it off the list?
 * juliank blames the guy they shot up into space in a tesla
<slangasek> xnox: are you telling me it's NOT fix committed yet?
<bdmurray> maybe just disabling that check on devel releases is good enough
<xnox> slangasek, there are autopkgtests failures in systemd that i'm fixing it.
<xnox> slangasek, (umockdev + udisks mis-compat with udev)
<slangasek> xnox: that doesn't actually answer my question
<xnox> slangasek, it is not fix committed, as in, it is not in bionic-proposed.
<slangasek> xnox: if it's committed to the package vcs, it's fix-committed
<slangasek> and we should mark it as such so you can take it off my nag list ;)
<cyphermox> bdmurray: I wonder if queueing the crashes would be so bad
<slangasek> bdmurray: anything else on bugs?
<bdmurray> slangasek: Not from me
<slangasek> ok, anyone else? :)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> aaaand anything else?
<xnox> done
<gaughen> no
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Feb  8 16:39:42 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-02-08-16.04.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-02-09
<crester48> Hello hello
<crester48> I cannot believe the weekend is almost here
<crester48> I get off in like 40 minutes
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-02-05
<cpaelzer> doko: cyphermox: I always miss this meeting just to realize I had something to discuss
<cpaelzer> I'd ask you for your experience on bug 1814500
<ubottu> bug 1814500 in soupsieve (Ubuntu) "[MIR] soupsieve (dependency of beautifulsoup4)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1814500
<cpaelzer> if you read through it it would add a "new" pyethon2 dependency - but new is in quotes because it is already a py2 dependency (beautifulsoup4) just seperated now
<cpaelzer> this needs openstack to let go of python2 completely
<cpaelzer> so I wonder - is this a MIR blocker (adding new py2 deps) or is it ok since it was formerly in main and transitioning openstack off of py2 canÃt be the task of that MIR
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-02-07
<sil2100> o/
 * vorlon waves
<juliank> o/
<vorlon> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Feb  7 16:01:10 2019 UTC.  The chair is vorlon. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<vorlon> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<vorlon> $ echo $(shuf -e vorlon bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity cyphermox mwhudson juliank waveform)
<vorlon> juliank xnox rbalint vorlon infinity mwhudson waveform cyphermox doko bdmurray sil2100 tdaitx
<juliank> * apt work
<juliank> I think that's it
<xnox> skip
<vorlon> heh :)
<vorlon> rbalint:
<rbalint> * released livecd-rootfs merging multiple fixes including fixing mount with latest util-linux
<rbalint> * many unattended-upgrades 16.04 SRU verifications finding a few incomplete fixes
<rbalint> * partner meeting
<rbalint> * trying to reproduce resurfacing LP: #1766217, with no luck yet
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1766217 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "software updater presents an empty panel for updating" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1766217
<rbalint> * gardening unattended-upgrades bugs and playing with pinning support
<rbalint> (done)
<juliank> rbalint: does it work? :D
<rbalint> juliank, it seems so but i'm preparing a mr for apt to use -32767 for never
<bdmurray> vorlon:
<vorlon>  * MP raised for LP: #564853, to fix spurious ucf prompts in grub
<vorlon>  * proposed-migration
<vorlon>  * discussions around MySQL 8.0 OpenSSL linkage
<vorlon>  * discussions around OpenJDK 11 in bionic
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 564853 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "Spurious conffile prompts for /etc/default/grub" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/564853
<vorlon> (done)
<vorlon> waveform:
<bdmurray> no Adam?
<rbalint> vorlon, \o/ for the grub fix
<vorlon> bdmurray: evidently not
<waveform> * validating upgrades to current bionic from beta on various Pi models; identified a few issues that need dealing with
<waveform> * patched u-boot to deal with one aforementioned upgrade issue
<waveform> * tested core16 and core18 images on CM3; awaiting delivery of CM3+ for further testing
<waveform> * wiringpi nearly complete (now builds on PPA and result works, but one final warning to squash)
<waveform> * RPi.GPIO package accepted so GPIO via Python should now be possible on arm64
<waveform> * investigated systemd "degraded" state of arm64 Pi image on boot; network-wait and kernel-modules to blame
<waveform> (done)
<bdmurray> cyphermox:
<cyphermox> SHIM review: CentOS, SuSE.
<cyphermox> MIR reviews: gnome-remote-desktop, pipewire
<cyphermox> e2fsprogs: SRU verification for bug 1798562
<ubottu> bug 1798562 in e2fsprogs (Ubuntu) "After a side by side installation, resized filesystem is corrupted" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1798562
<cyphermox> grub2 SRUs:
<cyphermox> - bug 1814575: fix "db is empty" on Lenovos when checking signatures for kernels (cosmic, bionic)
<cyphermox> - bug 1814403: land vorlon's fix for quick-boot-lvm detecting efi status (cosmic, bionic)
<ubottu> bug 1814575 in grub2-signed (Ubuntu) "Updates failing because "db is empty"" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1814575
<cyphermox> - bionic: bug LP: #1401532: disabling fallback to unsigned. in unapproved until post-pointrelease
<cyphermox> partman-efi/ubiquity: early detection for missing ESP (SRU verification for bug LP: #1803031)
<ubottu> bug 1814403 in grub2 (Ubuntu Bionic) "Latest update causes 30 sec. menu delay timeout" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1814403
<cyphermox> dkms+shim-signed: currently verifying SRUs for xenial, trusty
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1401532 in grub2-signed (Ubuntu Bionic) "GRUB's Secure Boot implementation loads unsigned kernel without warning" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1401532
<cyphermox> scratching my head about other shim reviews.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1803031 in grub-installer (Ubuntu) "error: cannot find EFI directory." [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1803031
<cyphermox> (done)
<doko> - FOSDEM and OpenJDK committers workshop
<doko> - OpenJDK 12 build 31
<doko> - GCC 9 packages in -proposed, updating GCC 8 not to build the common packages
<doko> - binutils 2.32
<doko> - IBMz performance call
<doko> - OpenJDK-11 update calls
<doko> - finished the ftbfs regression spreadsheet for OpenSSL/OpenJDK/GCC/Python
<doko> - preparing SRU's for the planned bionic GCC 7.4 update
<vorlon> oh yes, I guess I did other grub stuff this week too, didn't I ;)
<doko> (done)
<xnox> i can go too, i think
<bdmurray> xnox: I'll wait for you
<xnox> * FOSDEM
<xnox>  - sent report
<xnox>  - did resolved talk
<xnox>  - "fixed" snapd/systemd/no /usr/local in PATH in bionic
<xnox>  - turns out we ship and use /usr/local a lot in production
<xnox> * systemd v240 migrated \o/
<xnox> * working on OpenSSL SRU fixing up leaf packages
<xnox> (end)
<bdmurray> had MP merged regarding migration of the ET mojo spec to use autocert
<bdmurray> worked w/ webops regarding getting ET mojo spec to pass in jenkins w/ autocert
<bdmurray> submitted RT regarding setting up dev ops env for geonames mojo spec
<bdmurray> wrote blog post regarding whoopsie OOPS ID and .uploaded file
<bdmurray> fixed apport bug 1658188 harder (missed something 2 years ago)
<bdmurray> uploaded 18.04 SRU for apport bug LP: #1766337
<bdmurray> reported debian bug 921581 regarding distro-info
<ubottu> bug 1658188 in apport (Ubuntu Xenial) "/usr/share/apport/apport-gtk:TypeError:/usr/share/apport/apport-gtk@597:run_argv:run_crashes" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1658188
<bdmurray> reported distro-info-data bug LP: #1814976 re eol-server dates
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1766337 in apport (Ubuntu Bionic) "uncaught python exception : UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf-8' codec can't decode byte; invalid continuation byte" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1766337
<ubottu> Debian bug 921581 in distro-info "Typo in error message regarding csv format" [Minor,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/921581
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1814976 in distro-info-data (Ubuntu) "eol-server dates are empty for current releases" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1814976
<bdmurray> submitted (merged) PR re KPI for proposed migration by team
<bdmurray> created graph for the KPI for proposed migration by team
<bdmurray> uploaded python-apt w/ updated mirrors lists for Ubuntu 18.04.2
<bdmurray> tested various installers of Ubuntu on an Intel NUC
<bdmurray> â done
<sil2100> - SRU reviews and releases
<sil2100> - Kernel releases
<sil2100> - Weekend snapd regression, reviewing and releasing the SRU
<sil2100> - Updating the crisis document
<sil2100> - 18.04.2:
<sil2100>   * Clean up of old unverified langpacks
<sil2100>   * Preparing the .2 changelog on wiki
<sil2100>   * Creating, verifying and sending the pi3 arm64 core18 model assertion to the store
<sil2100>   * Adding changes to livecd-rootfs for building core18 arm64 images
<sil2100>   * Adding pi3-arm64 to cdimage
<sil2100>   * Coordinating stable snap releases for .2
<sil2100> - Testing ubuntu-image 1.6 snap for stable promotion
<sil2100> - raspi3 classic:
<sil2100>   * Sponsoring various bugfix uploads for Dave
<sil2100>   * Investigating ways to deal with raspi3-firmware and config.txt upgrades
<sil2100> - Changed core18 snap-rebuild script to only rebuild core18 if ubuntu-base package contents change
<sil2100> - Started work on old-releases-archival helper tool for cdimage
<sil2100> - Drafted some work on core18 promotion script
<sil2100> (done)
<tdaitx> Short week: half-days last week, openjdk workshop on Monday
<tdaitx> * openjdk-11 transition
<tdaitx>   - new ppas with -security only deps
<tdaitx>   - cherry-picking package versions to backport
<tdaitx>   - testing gradle/groovy toolchains with openjdk-lts and -security only
<tdaitx>   - re-checking rebuilds; number packages:
<tdaitx>     * 65 disco, 172 bionic, 262 from test-bionic
<tdaitx>     * limited to packages listed in openjdk-11 SRU exception/FFe request
<tdaitx>   - openjdk 11 transition meetings
<tdaitx> Other:
<tdaitx> * off next week in Malta, will drop in for some transition work
<tdaitx> * fighting off the fosdem flu
<tdaitx> (done)
<doko> tdaitx: where is this list about the rebuilds?
<cjwatson> vorlon: Where is this grub2/ucf MP?
 * cjwatson fails to find it on https://code.launchpad.net/~vorlon/+activereviews
<cyphermox> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/grub/+git/ubuntu/+merge/362869
<tdaitx> doko: grepping through the newer csv files, filtering through failures, and matching according the the packages we asked for exception
<cjwatson> nack :P
<cjwatson> (thanks)
<vorlon> cjwatson: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/grub/+git/ubuntu/+merge/362869
<vorlon> ah
<cyphermox> nak again, I guess
<cyphermox> I'm thinking this was a TCP exchange rather than a review
<cjwatson> Yes, I already fixed this in Debian with much thought, you should just cherry-pick
<xnox> i squinted at it
<vorlon> ah
<tdaitx> doko: I just counted how many packages, still going through the list for each rebuild, don't necessarily mean they are openjdk related
<doko> tdaitx: please update the spreadsheet
<cjwatson> I'm fairly certain that MP will make matters even more confusing :)
<vorlon> anything else re: status?
<cyphermox> I was kind of inching towards not merging these things at all if it could be avoided
<cyphermox> ie. we write the config once, and if you're unhappy about timeout, well, change it
<vorlon> cyphermox: nack :P
<cyphermox> (at least as far as timeout is involved, other things might need merging)
<vorlon> well, timeout perhaps
<vorlon> but it's not timeout that prompted the server team's attention
<cyphermox> timeout is currently THE thing that comes from debconf :)
<cyphermox> no, I know
<cjwatson> I'm pretty sure that https://salsa.debian.org/grub-team/grub/commit/e4e7c3fae0fe7682f4c1215daeb6830716eb1b58 is correct; I spent a couple of days going over every case I could think of and verifying behaviour.
<cyphermox> but my point is like that, you essentially write /etc/default/grub once, and not touch it again
<vorlon> yeah, nack
<cjwatson> Please can you just resync with Debian because the divergence is getting out of hand?
<cyphermox> cjwatson: yes
<vorlon> [TOPIC] Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
<vorlon> bdmurray:
<bdmurray> should we target bug 1814109?
<ubottu> bug 1814109 in libarchive (Ubuntu) "Nautilus corrupts 7z archive files when extracting via 'Extract here' context menu" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1814109
<vorlon> bdmurray: seems like an upstream issue that we're unlikely to fix ourselves, but might as well target it
<bdmurray> okay, doing so
<bdmurray> I ran across bug 1797335 again, does anybody know the status of it?
<ubottu> bug 1797335 in glibc (Ubuntu) "strstr() on ubuntu18.04 8 times slower than on ubuntu16" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1797335
<doko> well, I think we are waiting on the glibc SRU ...
<xnox> that's in proposed now, no?
<sil2100> I think that one's in -proposed already
<vorlon> infinity might know
<xnox> STS/SEG uploaded, no?
<sil2100> It is
<sil2100> Along with binutils
<vorlon> there is a glibc SRU in flight AIUI
<bdmurray> So the bug didn't get referenced then?
<sil2100> It's full of ADT regressions though, hope someone tracks those
<bdmurray> Okay, I'll dig into it.
<vorlon> but that bug lacks an SRU template, so
<xnox> hmmm
<xnox> it has https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/glibc/+bug/1663280 referenced
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1663280 in glibc (Ubuntu Xenial) "Serious performance degradation of math functions" [High,Fix committed]
<xnox> so maybe that's something else, no?!
<sil2100> Oh
<xnox> or under referenced?
<xnox> or a duplicated, no?
<xnox> it's different
<xnox> but similar
<bdmurray> Okay, thanks
<vorlon> similifferent
<sil2100> Indeed, ugh
<bdmurray> That's it for rls- stuff. I tested bug 1805027 again w/ the systemd SRU and it seems fine to me.
<ubottu> bug 1805027 in systemd (Ubuntu) "systemd-resolved can't resolve Comcast mail server addresses" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1805027
 * sil2100 needs to actually open the bugs before commenting on them
<bdmurray> Should I just mark it as a duplicate of bug 1811471?
<ubottu> bug 1811471 in systemd "local resolver stub fails to handle multiple TCP dns queries" [Unknown,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1811471
<xnox> if that's fixed now, yes
<xnox> it should be, i think
<vorlon> do we need to hurry through publication of a systemd SRU then before it gets stomped on by security?
<xnox> and SRUs are done across the board
<bdmurray> Well none of the original reporters have said anything...
<xnox> vorlon, all systemd srus are published
<vorlon> xnox: ok. any more pending? :)
<bdmurray> that's it for me
<vorlon> [TOPIC] proposed-migration
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: proposed-migration
<vorlon> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/disco/update_excuses_by_team.html#foundations-bugs
<vorlon> doko: ?
<xnox> so like
<xnox> vorlon, bdmurray - not sure why SEG/STS did not upload https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/bionic/+source/systemd/+bug/1755863
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1755863 in systemd (Ubuntu Cosmic) "netbooting the bionic live CD over NFS goes straight to maintenance mode :" [Medium,In progress]
<xnox> or should we, for the point release
<xnox> as that fixes the ubiquity NFS installer
<xnox> ddstreet, ^
<vorlon> the ubiquity nfs installer that we don't support?
<gaughen> no more bugs for point release
<gaughen> bug fixes, that is
<bdmurray> bugs or fixes?
<gaughen> no bug fixes which may lead to bugs
<gaughen> and no bugs too
<vorlon> doko: do you think we need to discuss the packages currently in?  the list of blocked packages is fairly short, and I understand the causes of each
<vorlon> I don't know what we're doing about the failing kernel package autopkgtests
<gaughen> vorlon, I think the only one is pillow/libimagequant0
<xnox> i did raise that question with the kernel team
<vorlon> gaughen: that's an MIR waiting for security review
<xnox> i believe we overtrigger tests
<vorlon> xnox: disagree; we deliberately care to know if the toolchain regresses the kernel
<xnox> because their test-suite runtime dependencies, are not in indication that runtime packages are regressing the new kernel
<gaughen> kewl
<vorlon> but the autopkgtests do not give good signal and I don't know who's owning this
<xnox> vorlon, sure, but we don't care about running their java testsuite and seeing regression of those, upon non-toolchain uploads.
<vorlon> overtriggering should not be a problem if the tests are good tests
<xnox> the tests are good, but always run from -proposed
<xnox> so we never have good SRU migration signals either.
<vorlon> right, so to me that's not good
<vorlon> so do we need to get the kernel team to fix the tests to skip based on the triggers listed in the environment?
<vorlon> [ACTION] vorlon to follow up w/ apw
<meetingology> ACTION: vorlon to follow up w/ apw
<vorlon> [ACTION] vorlon to follow up w/ apw about kernel autopkgtests blocking the world
<meetingology> ACTION: vorlon to follow up w/ apw about kernel autopkgtests blocking the world
<xnox> vorlon, let me forward you on the email thread i had with kernel-team
<doko> vorlon: no, nothing important now
<vorlon> ok
<vorlon> [TOPIC] AOBB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOBB
<vorlon> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<vorlon> anything else?
<gaughen> vorlon, doko reached out to apw, let me rope you in
<vorlon> doesn't sound like there's anything else
<vorlon> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Feb  7 16:40:47 2019 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2019/ubuntu-meeting.2019-02-07-16.01.moin.txt
<vorlon> thanks, all!
<sil2100> o/
<vorlon> cjwatson: peeked at your approach to the ucf change; AIUI the result of this is that if the user has tried to dpkg-reconfigure and change a setting through debconf, the new value will be ignored
<cjwatson> vorlon: do feel free to send me a test script (informal or otherwise) that exercises this
 * vorlon nods
<cjwatson> vorlon: I thought I tested that case though
<vorlon> ICBW, I haven't tested yet and am only looking at the code
<vorlon> but yes, I'll test and follow up
<cjwatson> thanks
#ubuntu-meeting 2020-02-04
 * cpaelzer lights up the MIR-fireplace
<cpaelzer> jamespage: didrocks: doko: sarnold: ping
<cpaelzer> who did I miss
<jamespage> o/
<doko> o/
<doko> cpaelzer: joe
 * joeubuntu waves hello 
<didrocks> hey
<cpaelzer> I couldn't ping joeubuntu before he was available :-)
<cpaelzer> I think we are complete now
<cpaelzer> lets fech the links we usually look at
<cpaelzer> #startmeeting Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Feb  4 14:06:35 2020 UTC.  The chair is cpaelzer. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic:
<cpaelzer> skipping previous-action items as we had no explicit ones
<cpaelzer> let me know if I have just missed them :-)
<cpaelzer> #topic New MIRs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: New MIRs
<cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=NEW&assignee_option=none&field.assignee=&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
<cpaelzer> has two entries
<cpaelzer> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/jeepney/+bug/1861268
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1861268 in jeepney (Ubuntu) "[MIR] jeepney" [Undecided,New]
<cpaelzer> has anyone history/experience with that to be a fast review?
<cpaelzer> a.k.a call for volunteers
<cpaelzer> python-dbus interface smells like a case for pythonic people - doko/jamespage maybe?
<didrocks> doesnât sound straightforward either and security sensitive no?
<cpaelzer> I'd expect anything *dbus* to be security sensitive
<jamespage> agreed
<doko> ok
<cpaelzer> and who wants to do the packaging check to then pass it on to security?
<cpaelzer> It seems we fast-path agreed on the result, but somone has to do the formal check (maybe there is more that needs to be fixed)
<joeubuntu> will jeepney be required for Focal?
<joeubuntu> really just anything we talk about today , if we need it for 20.04 just let me know.
<cpaelzer> it is in component-mismatches already
<cpaelzer> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.html
<cpaelzer> depended on by python3-secretstorage
<cpaelzer> does any of the following rev-deps ring a bell why this is in main
<cpaelzer> $ reverse-depends -r focal python3-secretstorage
<cpaelzer> Reverse-Recommends
<cpaelzer> ==================
<cpaelzer> * backintime-qt
<cpaelzer> * nagstamon
<cpaelzer> Reverse-Depends
<cpaelzer> ===============
<cpaelzer> * python3-datalad
<cpaelzer> * python3-keyring
<cpaelzer> * unity-mail
<didrocks> (sorry, I meant seems security sensitive or not straightforward, but double negative :p)
<cpaelzer> ok it comes from python3-keyring
<cpaelzer> which then on revdeps hits openstack with python3-keystoneclient python3-novaclient and others
<cpaelzer> jamespage: would you mind doing the https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/jeepney/+bug/1861268 review
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1861268 in jeepney (Ubuntu) "[MIR] jeepney" [Undecided,New]
<cpaelzer> it seems eventually it is you needing it anyway ?
<cpaelzer> and once you have assessed the case you could let joeubuntu know if this is urgent-20.04 material
<jamespage> cpaelzer: yeah I can do that
<joeubuntu> ð
<cpaelzer> great
<cpaelzer> the next in the list was ec2-instance connetc
<cpaelzer> I have reviewed that in the past
<cpaelzer> and denied
<cpaelzer> the old missing bits are not provided, it was expired and accidentially set back to new
<cpaelzer> I clarified on the bug and set it back to incomplete
<cpaelzer> done with new MIR bugs
<cpaelzer> #topic Incomplete bugs / questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Incomplete bugs / questions
<cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
<cpaelzer> of these I just mentioned ec2-instance-connect
<cpaelzer> that is ok
<cpaelzer> further we have https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pyrsistent/+bug/1860422
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1860422 in pyrsistent (Ubuntu) "[MIR] pyrsistent, required by python-jsconschema" [High,Incomplete]
<cpaelzer> have you talked about this last week?
<cpaelzer> doko: jamespage: this one seems between you two
<doko> yep, I filed the incomplete one
<jamespage> needs someone in u-openstack to fill in the details - I'll poke sahid and coreycb
<cpaelzer> ok, so this one will make progress as well then
<cpaelzer> all others are old and were handled int he past
<cpaelzer> #topic Any other business?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Any other business?
<cpaelzer> anything else by any of you?
<cpaelzer> didrocks: jamespage: joeubuntu: doko ?
<jamespage> o/
<jamespage> yes
<jamespage> one sec
<joeubuntu> nothing for me
<didrocks> (nothing particular for me)
<doko> not from my side
<cpaelzer> nothing (new) for server-team
<jamespage> had I not had a launchpad timeout this AM
<jamespage> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/masakari/+bug/1815991
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1815991 in masakari-monitors (Ubuntu) "[MIR] masakari and masakari-monitors" [Undecided,New]
<jamespage> would have been marked back as New rather than Incomplete
<jamespage> I was reviewing MIR work for 20.04 deliverables and realised we had put that one on hold but now needs revisiting
<doko> didrocks: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/1:6.4.0-0ubuntu2  this is an ugly thing, using the interncal copy ...
<cpaelzer> jamespage: so you are looking for a reviewer on 1815991 now is that correct?
<jamespage> yes please
<cpaelzer> I can take a look tomorrow
<didrocks> doko: can you mention it to marcustomlinson on #u-desktop or should I?
<cpaelzer> jamespage: is this 20.04 material
<didrocks> or even here, heâs around, do done :)
<didrocks> so*
<jamespage> yep
<doko> didrocks: please do
<cpaelzer> jamespage: joeubuntu left already, you might want to let him know per email then?
<marcustomlinson> doko: no, I simply removed the dep, no internal copy used
<jamespage> yep will raise it although I would think it won't require security review
<doko> ahh, ok
<didrocks> +# SYSTEM_STUFF += qrcodegen
<jamespage> being yet-another openstack python daemon thingmy
<didrocks> yeah :)
<cpaelzer> jamespage: I'll need soem time to look at it and agree that no security is needed
<cpaelzer> but I'm glad to know your expectation ...
<cpaelzer> I have one more for desktop didrocks
<cpaelzer> in the incomplete MIRs we have https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openjpeg2/+bug/711061
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 711061 in openjpeg2 (Ubuntu) "[MIR] openjpeg2" [High,Incomplete]
<cpaelzer> didrocks: this still needs a team subscriber
<cpaelzer> and a security review
<didrocks> cpaelzer: handling it
<cpaelzer> didrocks: you might want to fixup both so it can go forward
<didrocks> well, not the security part :p
<didrocks> yep
<cpaelzer> didrocks: but you can set the assigned team to ubuntu-security
<cpaelzer> ok, it seems we are good for now
<didrocks> doing
<cpaelzer> jamespage: I'll let you know if I find anything discussion worthy
<cpaelzer> in masakari
<jamespage> thankyee
<cpaelzer> I'll close the meeting if nothing else comes up in
<cpaelzer> 10
<cpaelzer> 5
<cpaelzer> 2
<cpaelzer> 1
<cpaelzer> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Feb  4 14:27:26 2020 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-02-04-14.06.moin.txt
<cpaelzer> thanks everyone
<didrocks> thx
<jamespage> thanks cpaelzer
#ubuntu-meeting 2020-02-06
<bdmurray> o/
<sil2100> o/
<waveform> o/
<bdmurray> #startmeeting Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Feb  6 16:02:58 2020 UTC.  The chair is bdmurray. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic:
<bdmurray> #topic Lightning rounds
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Lightning rounds
<bdmurray> echo $(shuf -e vorlon bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity mwhudson juliank waveform)
<juliank> o/
<bdmurray> rbalint doko juliank tdaitx infinity bdmurray vorlon mwhudson waveform sil2100 xnox
<juliank> yes, not so late this time
<bdmurray> balint may be at the doctor
<bdmurray> doko:
<bdmurray> juliank:
<juliank> * fosdem travel on Fri/Mon, bad connectivity, hence not much going on:
<juliank>   - python 3.8 fix for update-manager
<juliank>   - apt: finished cleaning up the short-patterns branch and released 1.9.9
<juliank> * ubuntu-release-upgrader: Do not attempt to upgrade if the cache has broken packages after having calculated the upgrade (LP: #1861756)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1861756 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "upgrade from 18.04 to 20.04 issues due to colord / libsane issue" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1861756
<juliank>   - and some followup helping two people get their systems back working
<juliank> * shim: copied new shim too early, without properly following the TestPlan, as it was linked to at the end of the wiki page :/; so block-proposed it (LP: #1862171)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1862171 in shim-signed (Ubuntu) "Perform TestPlan" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1862171
<juliank> * valgrind: cherry-picked fix  s390x: Support "compare and signal" instructions (LP: #1862183) - 2 hours after upstream committed it! blocked apt ...
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1862183 in valgrind (Ubuntu) "IR: unimplemented insn: B348 0010 on s390x in apt" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1862183
<juliank> * investigated partman-auto failure reported for 18.04.4
<juliank> (done)
<bdmurray> tdaitx:
<tdaitx> * openjdk-8 & openjdk-11
<tdaitx>   - testing i386 fix by vorlon (LP: #1861467) + hs_err log collection on bileto
<tdaitx> * looking at bileto & autopkgtest to implement clearing up swift data on ticket clean up
<tdaitx> * revisited LP: #1838740 and LP: #1764701 after upstream discussion
<tdaitx> * looked over jakarta ee opensource tck, which is not the same as java se tck
<tdaitx> Other:
<tdaitx> - remote signing is way more finicky than I remembered
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1861467 in openjdk-lts (Ubuntu) "make autopkgtests cross-test-friendly" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1861467
<tdaitx> (done)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1838740 in openjdk-lts (Ubuntu Focal) "libjawt.so inconsistency lets JVM crash" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1838740
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1764701 in gcc-7 (Ubuntu) "produces broken binary: Inconsistency detected by ld.so [regression gcc-7 7.3.0-15ubuntu2 => 7.3.0-16ubuntu2]" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1764701
<bdmurray> infinity is not here
<bdmurray> me!
<bdmurray> uploaded ubuntu-dbgsym-keyring to daisy-seeds PPA
<bdmurray> updated retracer-dependencies to depend on ubuntu-dbgsym-keyring
<bdmurray> modified apport to use AllowUnauthenticated when downloading pkgs from LP
<bdmurray> updated errors code for Ubuntu 19.04 End of Life
<bdmurray> updated / tested apport, errors code in staging & production
<bdmurray> modified oopsrepository to resolve a Traceback (LP: #1860019)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1860019 in Daisy "Traceback with Kali in release name" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1860019
<bdmurray> updated / tested oopsrepository in staging
<bdmurray> 18.04.4 testing
<bdmurray> added raspberry pi test cases to the iso tracker
<bdmurray> reviewed / merged paride's degraded raid manual test case
<bdmurray> â done
<bdmurray> vorlon:
<vorlon> bdmurray: skip come back?
<bdmurray> waveform:
<waveform> * Bionic .4 testing and work:
<waveform> * Finally got core18 booting (missing gpio-regulator module in the initrd)
<waveform> * \o\ /o/ \o/ (alright, I'll stop dancing)
<waveform> * ... and then found ethernet doesn't survive a reboot on the 4 (also appears to be missing genet module in the initrd, plus some phy bits)
<waveform> * Investigated/worked-around core18 memory issues on 3A+ (vc4-fkms-v3d overlay again)
<waveform> * Fixed flash-kernel failing on upgrade with kernel (LP: #1861292)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1861292 in flash-kernel (Ubuntu Bionic) "flash-kernel failure during kernel upgrade" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1861292
<waveform> * Investigated another flash-kernel report (inc. LP: #1862148); appears to be "already fixed" but needs removing from container images
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1862148 in flash-kernel (Ubuntu Focal) "flash-kernel fails to install in a chroot" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1862148
<waveform> * Removing conflicted Pi4 wifi bits from linux-firmware-raspi2
<waveform> (done)
<sil2100> * 18.04.4
<sil2100> (done)
<bdmurray> sil2100:
<bdmurray> xnox:
<xnox> Fosdem was fun, will send a polished trip report tomorrow
<xnox> Fixing initramfs-tools / ubuntu-core-initramfs for the libgcc_s1.so movement
<xnox> Fixing ubuntu-core-initramfs for repackaging
<xnox> Playing with encryption on UC20
<xnox> Boost1.71 transition in progress, 65% done https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/transitions/html/boost1.71.html
<xnox> Opencryptoki update LP: #1854148, LP: #1852089, LP: #1850294
<ubottu> Error: Could not gather data from Launchpad for bug #1854148 (https://launchpad.net/bugs/1854148). The error has been logged
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1852089 in Ubuntu on IBM z Systems "[20.04] Fix failure of EP11 to import an ECC public key" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1852089
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1850294 in Ubuntu on IBM z Systems "ICA HW token missing after the package update" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1850294
<bdmurray> vorlon:
<xnox> done
<vorlon>  * short week, out last Friday
<vorlon>  * reviewing the work for UC20
<vorlon>  * shepherded the libffi transition
<vorlon>  * 18.04.4 misc
<vorlon>  * got us a new signed shim from Microsoft!
<vorlon> (done)
<bdmurray> rbalint:
<rbalint> * uploads via Debian: unattended-upgrades 1.17, kodi 18.5 (experimental, NEW)
<rbalint> * proposed fix for LP: #1607845
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1607845 in apt (Ubuntu) "List of versioned kernels is not right for Ubuntu" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1607845
<rbalint> * sru verifications: pam
<rbalint> * partner work
<rbalint> * being out sick :-(
<rbalint> (done, short week)
<bdmurray> #topic Release incoming bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Release incoming bugs
<bdmurray> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ff-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<bdmurray> bug 1861873 should be fixed I just haven't verified it yet
<ubottu> bug 1861873 in apport (Ubuntu) "apport-collect fails to run with python3.8" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1861873
<bdmurray> bug 1861512 I reported and we talked about
<ubottu> bug 1861512 in casper (Ubuntu) "read/write partition has a strange name" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1861512
<xnox> i nominate mwhudson
<bdmurray> let's target and card that
<xnox> i think we need to create a new name and start using it; and keep old one as supported fallback
<xnox> (there are tools in the wild that create stuff for it to be used)
<bdmurray> that sounds like something to discuss in the bug
<bdmurray> bug 1861451
<ubottu> bug 1861451 in apport (Ubuntu) "apport's cloud-init-specific handling tracebacks on minimal cloud images" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1861451
<bdmurray> That looks worth carding / taking
<bdmurray> bug 1861446 I think is actually a kernel issue but I've subscribed to the bug so punting that
<ubottu> bug 1861446 in linux (Ubuntu) "on focal 'ubuntu-bug linux' doesn't automatically collect kernel artifacts" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1861446
<bdmurray> bug 1861472
<ubottu> bug 1861472 in openssh (Ubuntu) "upgrade from fresh bionic to focal needlessly prompts user" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1861472
<xnox> is the ubuntu-bug linux => because of rename to linux-5.4?
<xnox> also shouldn't ubuntu-bug linux work on _any_ active kernel flavour? be that oem / aws / blah / blah /blah
<bdmurray> I'll follow up with the server team to see if they are taking the openssh bug
<bdmurray> xnox: ah it could be missing symlinks then
<bdmurray> xnox: I'll dig into it
<xnox> tah
<bdmurray> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ee-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<bdmurray> nothing new there
<bdmurray> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<bdmurray> xnox: there are some more updates in bug 1856560
<ubottu> bug 1856560 in util-linux (Ubuntu) "ds-identify - stuck in uninterruptible sleep state" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1856560
<xnox> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/+bugs?field.tag=champagne
<bdmurray> alright that's enough bugs
<bdmurray> #topic Team proposed-migration report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Team proposed-migration report
<bdmurray> vorlon:
<vorlon> [LINK] https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/focal/update_excuses_by_team.html#foundations-bugs
<vorlon> juliank: last week you said unattended-upgrades was blocked on apt, what's the status?
<juliank> vorlon: New apt is uploaded
<rbalint> vorlon, it is about to be fixed
<vorlon> juliank: ok, so that will just need a test retry shortly?
<juliank> valgrind regressed a bit, which I fixed so new apt can migrate
<juliank> yes
<vorlon> ok
<vorlon> libcap-ng is part of python3-defaults
<vorlon> python3-defaults could use more hands
<vorlon> most of the remaining autopkgtest failures are upstream regressions with python3.8
<vorlon> so we need to fix or remove
<vorlon> any volunteers?
<bdmurray> fix or remove the package?
<vorlon> yes
<vorlon> I think we have agreement to handle the tryton stuff via "remove" but it's a big pile of packages and I haven't started yet
<xnox> i'm kind of still grinding through boost1.71 after which i will grind through icu
<vorlon> but the others need looking at
<xnox> then can help on python38
<rbalint> i will help too
<xnox> doko said he didn't mind doing boost/icu before python38 is done
<vorlon> xnox: python3-defaults was here first, and is also blocking glibc
<xnox> ok
<xnox> vorlon:  well IBM wants both glibc and boost, and don't care about python
<xnox> horum
<vorlon> oh lovely, new autopkgtest failures for gcc-10 on python3-defaults ;P
<vorlon> so it sounds like xnox will help with these failures, anyone else have capacity?
<rbalint> xnox starts with top, i start from the bottom ?
<bdmurray> I will for icecream
<vorlon> rbalint: thanks :)
<vorlon> so, libplist and talloc are also python3-defaults
<vorlon> python-secretstorage is blocked on an MIR
<vorlon> aptdaemon vs python-apt; juliank?
<juliank> gotta look into this
<vorlon> juliank: does that mean you are taking it?
<juliank> No fixed that
<juliank> Need to retry python-apt now
<juliank> But yes
<vorlon> ok
<xnox> commas would help there =)
<vorlon> libyaml-libyaml-perl and libyaml-perl look like a pair
<bdmurray> the python-secretstorage MIR has been filed though?
<vorlon> I'll go ahead and take those
<vorlon> bdmurray: yes
<bdmurray> is it in the security team's secretqueue?
<vorlon> don't know
<bdmurray> I'll look
<waveform> vorlon, I should probably take a look at python-h2 (seems arm specific?)
<vorlon> waveform: cheers
<vorlon> boost1.71: xnox: you have this one?
<xnox> vorlon:  yes
<xnox> mclemenceau:  please get python-secretstorage MIR onto security team review queue
<xnox> https://launchpad.net/bugs/1861268
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1861268 in jeepney (Ubuntu) "[MIR] jeepney" [Undecided,New]
<vorlon> btrf-progs is python
<vorlon> who wants to take git?
<vorlon> autopkgtest regressions of revdeps
<vorlon> tdaitx: ^^ can you take?
<vorlon> (I'll assume yes)
<tdaitx> vorlon: yeah
<vorlon> python-werkzeug has an arm64 regression
<xnox> mwhudson:  ^
<xnox> your welcome =)
<vorlon> that may be a regression in release, I'll follow it up
<vorlon> gmp looks interesting, let's give mwhudson that one
<vorlon> ;)
<vorlon> licensecheck has new perl deps, let's give that to infinity
<vorlon> lsof, I'll take
<vorlon> python3.7 blocking sqlite3, likely just a re-test, I'll take
<vorlon> subversion/s390x blocking sqlite3, xnox can have
<vorlon> cdebconf was my merge, I'll follow through
<vorlon> ditto libuv1
<vorlon> and cmake is xnox's
<vorlon> and that's the list
<bdmurray> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<bdmurray> Any holidays or anything going on?
<bdmurray> alright thanks everybody
<bdmurray> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Feb  6 16:41:04 2020 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-02-06-16.02.moin.txt
<sil2100> Thanks o/
