#ubuntu-mobile 2008-01-07
<DanaG> The FAQ really doesn't cover how to go about installing Ubuntu-Mobile in a VM, which is i386 architecture.  The lpia kernel lacks the pcnet driver that Virtualbox emulates.
<DanaG> And "mccaslin-lpia' and 'menlow-lpia' are not very descriptive, either.
<DanaG> Or rather, they may be very descriptive if you look up those terms, but they're not self-defining.
<amitk> DanaG: For x86 compatibility, you want to use the mccaslin kernels (I assume you are trying the moblin ones)
<DanaG> Well, I'm not sure where to start.
<DanaG> I installed a base ubuntu console system in Virtualbox, and installed the ubuntu-mobile metapackage, but it seems that's not a correct way of doing it.
<DanaG> But while I was at it, I tried the -ume kernel, and I noticed that it lacks the pcnet32 module needed for the VM's ethernet adapter.
<DanaG> Is there a specific list somewhere, describing the difference between the -ume and the -generic kernels?
<DanaG> Oh, and I'm on Hardy, but I could also try it from Gutsy in a VM if that'd make things better.
<amitk> DanaG: Gutsy will definitely improve things, Hardy is still a bit raw and the compat version isn't even working.
<amitk> DanaG: In Ubuntu, you will find 'lpia' and 'lpiacompat' flavours of the kernel. I guess you know which one to try.
<amitk> I am not sure about the pcnet32 though.. let me check.
<DanaG> Looking in the package manager on the host, the only result for '-lpia' is xen-hypervisor-lpia.
<DanaG> If possible, I'd like to run the bootstrap without having to do a full Ubuntu install in a VM.... but oh yeah, I already have the base there.  I guess I can start the image builder in that system.
<amitk> DanaG: Exactly. Run image-creator inside your Gutsy or Hardy system - it should create the needed rootstrap for you
<DanaG> Aah, I'll have to do that tomorrow when I'm on campus -- 3 megabits at home doesn't cut it, but even WiFi at school (if the servers are fast enough) will work well.
<DanaG> I'm glad Virtualbox has USB support -- that'll let me hand a 'pegasus'-based USB ethernet adapter to the guest.
<dholbach> hey seb128 :)
<dholbach> hey amitk :)
<seb128> hello dholbach
<amitk> dholbach: Hey Daniel, Happy new year
<dholbach> to you guys too :)
<DanaG> oh yeah, dholbach: are you the one who created the 'oransun' theme?   (sources.list line: deb http://daniel.holba.ch/art-builder/publish/ ./ )
<dholbach> DanaG: no, I'm sorry - it was let me look it up
<dholbach> Iacopo Masi
<dholbach> iacopo-masi in Launchpad
<DanaG> aah.  I see, the name confused me.
<DanaG> Anyway, this Zen metacity theme works well with it:  http://jp.bizet.free.fr/themes/gnome.html
<asac> raji: just open a bug and ping me about it ;)
<asac> raji: i plan to do an update of nm-applet tomorrow or so btw.
<inuka>  ping bryce,
<bryce> yes?
<lakrit1> hi, where can I find the source code for gnome-volume-applet? Is it the same as gnome-volume-manager?
<lakrit1> sorry, wrong channel =)
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-01-08
<DanaG> I'm now trying to use the image creator to make an image for my vm, but the bootstrap target won't complete -- something depends on moblin-media, but it's not going to be installed.
<DanaG> And how do you create a configuration for a device?
<DanaG> aah, the ubuntu-mobile metapackage is what depends on moblin-media.
<StevenK> That is in the process of being sorted out.
<DanaG> Aah.  I'm going to try setting up an fset that's just the -generic kernel, and use that so I can get a bare image.
<DanaG> Now I just need to figure out how to get the USB device image to the host, or at least somehow make it bootable to the guest.
<DanaG> Is there a way to spoof a USB Mass Storage device on Linux?
<DanaG> I'd just hand it to the guest.
<DanaG> Oh yeah, I could just make a new virtual disk.
<DanaG> Dang, "No USB disk detected".
<DanaG> Can I just create a partition and use 'dd'?
<DanaG> Or rather, write to the bare device, perhaps?
<raji> asac: I filed the bug 507965 about Network Manager crash on intel Crown Beach hardware. I root caused it to be the unsafe 'strcmp' in the supplicant_initialize_init() function
<DanaG> Okay, I can't figure out how to boot the USB install thingy from a second virtual disk.
<Ward1983> i want to try ubuntu-mobile on my pda (pocket loox 720) it allready runs debian (with haret to make it boot), where should i start reading?
<xipietotec> I'm wondering if anyone knows of a list of floss and freeware for windows Mobile 5?
<dholbach> good morning
<DanaG> Hmm, it turned out impossible to install ubuntu-mobile in a VM.  However, I WAS able to install it in a USB drive and then create a disk-backed vmdk image.
<DanaG> Now to prevent the host from trying to access that....
<DanaG> Oh, here's how: duplicate it back to a virtual device.
<DanaG> But now how do I get the GUI?
<DanaG> Oh, and it has grub in two places, for some reason.
<DanaG> That's just odd... something about unionfs.
<DanaG> That's really odd... it's like there's a twin of the system there.
<DanaG> Oh, and things are busy, mounted on nonexistent places.
<DanaG> And where is /etc/event.d/session?  It seems to be missing on my system.
<DanaG> And sources.list is nearly empty.
<DanaG> Oh wait, they're in .d dir.
<DanaG> But menu.lst is being ignored, too!
<DanaG> Hmm, assertion `_dl_debug_initialize (0, args->nsid)->r_state == RT_CONSISTENT' failed.
 * DanaG goes to reboot to working ubuntu, and will then fire up ubuntu-mobile in the vm.
<DanaG> dang assertion -- not that assertions themselves are bad, but the violation is bad.
<DanaG> aah, some libraries are truncated, ldconfig claims.
<DanaG> Aah, reinstalled the relevant package.
<DanaG> Now it works, but everything is huge and disproportioned.
<asac> raji: bug 507965? is that a gnome bug or what?
<asac> raji: i filed LP bug 181232 ... what is your LP-id?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 181232 in network-manager "crash in supplicant_interface_init because of unsafe strcmp" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/181232
<Ward1983> i want to try ubuntu-mobile on my pda (pocket loox 720) it allready runs debian (with haret to make it boot), where should i start reading?
<suihkulokki> Ward1983: from the FAQ that states ubuntu is not available on arm ?
<Ward1983> suihkulokki, even if i compile it myself?
<Ward1983> lol good job :s
<Ward1983> some time ago i read that pda's that were allready able to run linux were gonna be supported soon
<Ward1983> but because of the chaotic wiki i can't find the link back
<suihkulokki> Ward1983: well it's going to be easier to compile for debian whatever is missing from there than compiling ubuntu over
<Ward1983> suihkulokki, that's axectly what i want to try
<suihkulokki> ( disclaimer I hack on debian/arm and related stuff, currently I mostly just lurk on this channel, UME people might disagree with everything I say)
<Ward1983> lol no problem
<Ward1983> at least you say something :p
<Ward1983> last time i came here i waited 48hours and had not one reply
<Ward1983> anyway, its too soon to compile stuff from ubuntu mobile?
<Ward1983> then i'll just comeback some other time
<suihkulokki> what exactly do you want?
<Ward1983> suihkulokki, just to try out some stuff to see how it works, anything would do
<Ward1983> just to experiment
<agoliveira> Ward1983: Hi. We're thinking about support arm eventually but it's not in our plans right now. You should be able to compile everything to arm as UME is based on Maemo which is already running on arm devices (Nokia tablets).
<agoliveira> Ward1983: You may also want to check pdaXrom.org
<Ward1983> agoliveira, that's what i was hoping for, but is there some page that clearly explains what (sourcecode) package does what + the dependencies?
<Ward1983> not being a dev i really have trouble getting the right information from the wiki
<agoliveira> Ward1983: Not really. It's based on Ubuntu packages.
<agoliveira> Ward1983: If you're not a developer would be very hard for you to go ahead right now as we're still in very early stages.
<Ward1983> ok will wait then
<Ward1983> then i'll just try EABI, very interesting too :-)
<Ward1983> lots of stuff to try :-)
<Ward1983> thanx for the info agoliveira and suihkulokki 
<suihkulokki> Ward1983: there pkg-maemo project on debian to bring maemo packages to debian
<agoliveira> Ward1983: No problem.
<suihkulokki> hildon-desktop should be in debian/unstable for trying out somewhere between next week/end of month, then you can just apt-get install them
<Ward1983> suihkulokki, :-o nice!
 * Ward1983 writs that down
<Ward1983> else i'll forget :-)
<Ward1983> and EABI is in there too btw :-)
<suihkulokki> Ward1983: but your device has only 32MB of ram, so gpe will probably work *much* better than maemo
<Ward1983> suihkulokki, my device has a mighty 128MB ram :d
<suihkulokki> oh
<Ward1983> pocket loox 720
 * suihkulokki was just reading handhelds.org and got the worng impression then
<Ward1983> fluxbox even works nice :-)
<Ward1983> now i have that window manager that opens everything fullscreen on the tiny screen
<Ward1983> made for touchscreen and pda
<Ward1983> oh btw, should it be usefull for you devs: the sources of pepperlinux were recently released
<robr_> amitk: ping
<raji> asac, I filed the bug on gnome. Is that wrong place? where should I report?
<asac> i opened a bug in launchpad for you now ... i think i dropped the bug id in the gnome bug
<asac> raji: please suscribe to the LP bug so i can ask more questions and please attach the patch you have found
<asac> raji: bug 181232 that is
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 181232 in network-manager "crash in supplicant_interface_init because of unsafe strcmp" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/181232
<raji> asac, Just saw that. I will attach the patch to the bug.
<asac> raji: nothing there yet
<raji> asac, sorry, caught up with some other stuff. Just uploaded patch file. Please take a look it, code changes are just 3 to4 lines .
<asac> raji: can you please submit a clean patch? the one you submitted is 1.6Mb ... i guess it should be just a few lines
<raji> asac, Do you just want the few lines that I modified? 
<asac> i want a patch :) ... usually i want a patch that is suitable to be included in debian/patches/ directory or a debdiff
<asac> and yes ... please give me a minimal patch
<asac> a patch of just the modified files is ok as well
<asac> raji: i just wrote a short instruction: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PatchingNetworkManagerPackage
<raji> asac, I just uploaded another short diff file, if that does not work, I will look at your instructions and do it again.
<asac> have you looked at the diff?
<asac> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/11221209/null-driver-name-fix.diff
<asac> thats not clean either :)
<asac> hmmm why does your driver return a null as kernel-driver?
<asac> doesn't sound too good i must admit :)
<asac> raji: i can integrate the change that way ... however maybe take a look at the instructions and try to do it that way. I except that you will submit more patches in future ... so its probably handy
<asac> s/except/expect/
<raji> asac, I agree that 'network manager' should not get null as the driver name but, in my opinion network manager should be robust enough to handle any crappy driver, in this case it is very simple to be robust. so I thought we should make this change.
<raji> asac, do you want to integrate my changes the way I sent you ? OR, you want me to follow the instructions , send another good looking patch? :)
<asac> yes the change is fine ... its just that no name doesn't make me feel bullish on the state of that driver :)
<asac> raji: i don't mind (as long as it really applies on top of all the other patches in debian/patches/ of course)
<asac> maybe try to apply it after the quilt push -a in the instructions ... if it does apply cleanly its fine
<raji> asac, I have to try it. give me few mins .
<asac> cool
<raji> asac, I have another question for you, does network-manger package installs simple-patchsys.mk files in the /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules folder?
<asac> no it uses quilt (see instructions)
<asac> e.g. quilt-patchsys.mk
<asac> raji: ^^
<asac> raji: ok here is what i did to produce a clean patch from your generic one (after getting the bzr branch -> instructions)
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-01-09
<asac> http://paste.ubuntu.com/3385/
<raji> asac, quilt push -a applied all patches, didnt give any errors. I think it works.
<asac> now the patch looks like
<asac> http://paste.ubuntu.com/3386/
<asac> raji: you have to apply your patch on top
<asac> see above
<asac> anyway ... next time you know where to look :)
<raji> asac, yes sir, I hope my second patch will be as clean as yours next time :) . thanks for accepting the changes.
<asac> thanks :)
<asac> thats ok ... i will commit what i have here now to the branch
<asac> raji: fix is now in bzr branch (rev 86)
<raji> asac. great. thanks for letting me know.
<dholbach> good morning
<bfiller> patm, kyleN : do we have a list in any of the documents you guys have been working on off the new dev work that we need to do for Compal?
<kyleN> bfiller: the "diff". i thin patm had on, but it is probably not complete given recent prd changes
<kyleN> darn typos
<dholbach> Mithrandir, StevenK: will somebody of you take care of bug 181304?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 181304 in bluez-gnome "[bluez-gnome] Please upgrade to new upstream version release" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/181304
<Mithrandir> StevenK: ^^ ; if you could take care of that whenever you have the time, that'd be good
<smagoun> bfiller: kyleN patm this is a public channel
<bfiller> smagoun: my bad again
<kyleN> lool, hey. Do you know whether debian packaging supports any kind of a signing mechanism? Such a mechanism would enable a facility through which client could control what apps a customer can install. 
<agoliveira> rustyl: Hi Rusty. Looks like there's a problem with your git repository. I'm trying to download the latest moblin-applets withoout success. Can you confirm that to me?
<agoliveira> Anyone from Intel feel free to step in and respond, please :)
<Mithrandir> agoliveira: works fine for me (over ssh)
<Mithrandir> moblin.org doesn't seem to have a working git daemon atm, for some reason
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: I'm just using git clone and I starts nicelly but b0rks about half way.
<Mithrandir> try pulling git://git.err.no/moblin-applets and see if that works for you.
<davidm> I think rustyl is at CES today
<rustyl> just got back
<rustyl> i flew in for a bunch of meetings, then got back last night and then slept late this morning
<rustyl> agoliveira, what protocol were you attempting to use? http? ssh?
<rustyl> I don't think we offer git: since we use ssh: for people that need write access and have http and rsync
<agoliveira> rustyl: Hi. It was http IIRC. I aways have done it and it usually works.
<rustyl> agoliveira, we might be having transient issues with the hosting service
<rustyl> especially if the transaction started and then failed half-way through
<agoliveira> rustyl: Makes sense as it's starting nicelly and b0rking half way. I got it from Tollef anyway.
<rustyl> HappyCamp_ubuntu, have you seen the above?  Anything funny happening i the system logs?
<Mithrandir> in general, it's better to use rsync than http, git hosting over http is prone to hiccups IME.
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: Agree.
<lool> kyleN: You can sign package repositories or actual deb files; the former is the most common; however there's simpler: I think the application installer software on the N8x0 for example is checking whether you're installing from a particularly named repo
<kyleN> lool, thx - good info
<inuka_desk> bryce, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libdrm which src package is it gutsy or hardy that you need the patch for, also are you applying any other patches other than ours? 
<bryce> inuka_desk: gutsy
<bryce> well, it's the same package in gutsy and hardy both
<bryce> the log I posted is with only one patch (01_default_perms.diff), which I expect should not conflict, or at most would have only a couple conflicts
<bryce> I also tried building with both patches 100_ and 101_ - which were the moblin patches from last time.  It also failed; I assumed that the new patch should supersede these
<inuka_desk> bryce, do you mind pointing to what you have in the debian. My patch should work on top of your existing patch. 
<bryce> http://people.ubuntu.com/~bryce/Testing/libdrm/
<inuka_desk> bryce: what we get is a patch corresponding to each release, which we combined to one huge patch along with psb header files.  I created the patch assuming the other two patches are already applied. 
<inuka_desk> bryce: thanks I will take a look at that
<bryce> procedurally, it would be better for me if these patches were left broken out as individual patches applied in series
<bryce> this way, if one of the patches is broken, it can be handled and dropped/repaired/refactored in isolation from the others
<bryce> currently with it being one big (63,000 line) patch, it's practically impossible to do anything with it on my end if it doesn't apply
<inuka_desk> got it, the reason we did that was because Jacob had issues with the older patches. I will try to break it down.
<bryce> also, it would be *really* useful to have a summary of what the patches are and what they do
<bryce> because that can give a clue if, for instance, a broken patch might be a dupe of or in conflict with another ubuntu patch
<bryce> oh, along those lines - 
<bryce> waldo mentioned that the libdrm changes were already taken upstream, 
<bryce> are the libdrm patches you're putting together used simply to resync up to git head?
<bryce> if so, then perhaps rather than doing it via patches, we should just create a literal git snapshot of libdrm?
<inuka_desk> upstream but unreleased,  not exactly we add the psb headers into the patch as well...
<bryce> hrm
<inuka_desk> basically if you create a snapshot of libdrm at the point of the merge and add in the psb header files you should be at the same point as the patch.
<bryce> hmm
<inuka_desk> It maybe better if I just clean up this, and make the psb-kmd-dev dependancy of xf86-video-psb so that the headers are pulled, that way you can make snap shot and make things easier and a lot cleaner
<inuka_desk> I have been doing this for the next release not for Beta03 though
<bryce> that's what I'm wondering as well
<inuka_desk> you take psb-kmd and xf86-video-psb from moblin as is right?
<bryce> what is psb-kmd?  I've never heard of it
<inuka_desk> the poulsbo kernel driver (graphics)
<bryce> I take -psb from moblin, but I repackage it with a different debian/ directory.
<bryce> amit handles the kernel side of things, I assume he takes care of that
<inuka_desk> oh ok.
<bryce> since psb is requiring libdrm to diverge so drastically from what's in Ubuntu, it's growing less and less likely that we'd be able to port much if any of this back to ubuntu proper
<bryce> so it looks like UME will have to have its own forked off version of these things anyway
<inuka_desk> for now I guess I will provide with you an other patch
<bryce> sorry if I seem frustrated; it's just the more UME's X diverges from the main Ubuntu X, the larger a time commitment it imposes on me
<bryce> but I know it's not anyone's fault, it's just the process is driving things in this direction on its own
<inuka_desk> understood, we are trying to clean up things on our end.... as well. its a huge web :)
<bryce> I can imagine :-)
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-01-10
<dholbach> good morning
<davidm> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 16:59. The chair is davidm.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<agoliveira> davidm: You're 25 second early :)
<mawhalen> Mauri joined
<alek_desk> hi
 * davidm grins
<cjwatson> present, sir
<davidm> Hi all
<mdz> good day
<lool> Hey Colin!
<cjwatson> lool: good evening
<Don_Johnson> Don Johnson is here
<amitk_> hi all
<davidm> We have some old business to cover and then we have some new items that are important
<davidm> Is bspenser here today?
<mawhalen> Rusty cannot attend today
<mawhalen> I'm checking
<davidm> Ah, OK then I'll skip the rustyl old business
<bryce> hi
<davidm> In the mean time we have an old item that I think is closed
* davidm changed the topic of #ubuntu-mobile to: amitk to update hardy ppa with drivers
<davidm> amitk, is this now moot?
<amitk> davidm: yes
<davidm> OK, I'll close it
<amitk> all the new drivers are in the hardy kernel
* davidm changed the topic of #ubuntu-mobile to: bspencer & horaceli to verify the ubuntu branch works
<mdz> davidm: I think you meant [topic] rather than /topic
<davidm> you are correct
<davidm> [topic] bspencer & horaceli to verify the ubuntu branch works
<MootBot> New Topic:  bspencer & horaceli to verify the ubuntu branch works 
* lool changed the topic of #ubuntu-mobile to: Ubuntu Mobile and Embedded
<davidm> bspencer, is this still open, moot or what?
<bspencer> davidm, we did that a few weeks ago
<davidm> thanks lool
<bspencer> and submitted patches
* cjwatson changed the topic of #ubuntu-mobile to: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/FAQ
<bspencer> there was also a related bug
<cjwatson> [restoring old URLs, seem useful?]
<lool> cjwatson: Thanks; didn't find the topic in my /lastlog
<davidm> bspencer, is it closed then?
<bspencer> bfiller_, is there anything you know of with the ubuntu branch that isn't working (hildon stuff I think this is referring to)
<bspencer> davidm, yes, as far as I know
<bfiller_> bspencer: I'm still tracking down a bug in new hildon-desktop where drags are not getting propogated to the Flash movie
<davidm> OK, on to the next topic then
<bspencer> bfiller_, curious.  what are "drags"?   
<bspencer> dragging an object 
<bfiller_> bspencer: click, hold and drag - animiates the flash movie in a certain way and is not now working
<bspencer> but was working befofre
<bfiller_> bspencer: yes and looking at the hildon-desktop change log, Nokia modified this code quite a bit
<kyleN> bspencer: for example there is a carousel of apps that you used to be able to spin with a drag
<bspencer> kyleN, yes, I've seen that 
<agoliveira> bspencer: Colective of drag queens?
<bspencer> agoliveira, thanks for the clarification
<agoliveira> :)
<bspencer> bfiller_, alright.  If horace gets a few cycles I'll have him play with that a bit.
<bspencer> <davidm> OK, on to the next topic then
<davidm> do we need to take an action about this before I move on?
<bfiller_> bspencer: thanks and I'll sync with horace to let him know what I've found
<davidm> [topic] Lexington to test ext3 for boot speed and disk image corruption 
<bspencer> davidm, I don't think so.  This is background work.  bfiller already chasing it.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Lexington to test ext3 for boot speed and disk image corruption  
<davidm> I know the status of this just changed yesterday.
<davidm> disk image corruption appears to be related to Image Creator was storing the squashfs image on an ext2 not ext3 partition
<ChickenCutlass> I just sent a patch this morning to the moblin guys fixing the disk corruption issue
<ChickenCutlass> I plan on testing the ext3 image before weeks end
<davidm> So I'll close the disk image corruption portion
<davidm> ChickenCutlass, thanks
<alek_desk> I'm curious why squashfs on ext2 could make fs corruption. since the partition should be readonly
<ChickenCutlass> good question -- However I would see the shashfs image file get corrupt when using ext2 but recover just fine when using ext3 to store the file
<mdz> ChickenCutlass: ever checked the mount flags?
<alek_desk> then I guess we mount it in wrong way.
<bspencer> ChickenCutlass, so it gets corrupt in both cases but just recovered in ext3?  :-\
<mdz> if it's read-only and being corrupted, then there's a scary issue we need to investigate regardless
<agoliveira> bspencer: That's a good one...
<ChickenCutlass> The patch I sent changes the mount flags as well -- to mount the partition as ext3
<agoliveira> ext3 has a journal so both get corrupted but ext3 recovers so nobody sees the problem.
<mdz> ChickenCutlass: I mean, did you check the active ones in /proc/mounts to confirm that it's read-only as expected?
<ChickenCutlass> mdz -- yes it was mounted as read only
<davidm> So the issue still needs looking into, we have masked the problem then?
<mdz> sounds that way
<mdz> is this the corruption issue which seems to happen on an SSD device but not on a HDD device?
<ChickenCutlass> I have seen this on HDD devices as well -- In fact it happened to Jon this week on his Q1
<mdz> maybe a driver bug?
<alek_desk> anyway, I agree we could use ext3 and do some more test. and we have no reason not to use ext3
<smagoun> we're using unionfs, and I think only unionfs thinks it's mounted ro - I think the actual sqaushfs partition is mounted rw
<mdz> smagoun: that would explain a few things
<smagoun> nevermind, looks like I'm misreading /proc/mounts :/
<alek_desk> smagoun, even so, but no one would write to the partition.
<davidm> OK, so is this an action for robr to look into?
<smagoun> Here's /proc/mounts on my CB: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/3445/
<ChickenCutlass> as a extra note on this
<ChickenCutlass> I tried using aufs instead of unionfs and still had the problem
<ChickenCutlass> I wanted to rule out unionfs
<davidm> Good to know
<alek_desk> davidm, please transfer the action to me directly.
<davidm> OK
<ChickenCutlass> looking at smagoun /proc/mounts
<mdz> alek_desk: the kernel presumably will, e.g. updating the utimes when the squashfs loop file is accessed
<ChickenCutlass> it looks like the squashfs partition is mounted as rw
<ChickenCutlass> and should be ro
<ChickenCutlass> /dev/sda1 /container ext3 rw,data=ordered 0 0
<smagoun> I think ChickenCutlass is right, I've misread /proc/mounts twice now :(
<mdz> /dev/sda1 /container ext3 rw,data=ordered 0 0
<davidm> [action] alek_desk, to look into why squashfs fs corruption happens.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  alek_desk, to look into why squashfs fs corruption happens. 
<davidm> We OK to continue on?
<mdz> yes
<davidm> [topic] bspencer to talk with developers to push get tags when making a release, and report back on status of this
<MootBot> New Topic:  bspencer to talk with developers to push get tags when making a release, and report back on status of this 
<bspencer> bspencer to /talk/ with developers
<bspencer> complete
<bspencer> talked to
<agoliveira> That was a cool sidestep :)
<bspencer> we discussed this in our last trip to china and also here... but I doubt it has been taken to heart
<bspencer> I haven't checked to see if such tagging has occurred but I think it probably hasn't
<bspencer> because you have to jump up and down longer for results
<smagoun> bspencer: it's intermittent, which is progress in the right direction
<alek_desk> bspencer, at least I know that rule. :)
<davidm> bspencer, Can you look into that further?
<bspencer> alek_desk, good to hear  :) .  davidm, yes
<davidm> [action] bspencer to  checked to see if such tagging has occurred
<MootBot> ACTION received:  bspencer to  checked to see if such tagging has occurred 
<bspencer>  /checked/  ... good 
<bspencer> ;)
<davidm> The action item from the 3rd will carry over since both rusty and tollef are not here today.
<davidm> so we are on to new business
<smagoun> davidm: there's 1 more action item from 12/20:
<smagoun> davidm to query build team on best way to monitor the i386 builds and the LPIA builds to stay in sync
<davidm> It's a manual process
<bspencer> aside:  mdz, are you waiting on rusty to schedule your next process meeting?
<smagoun> I came across http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ , which lists build failures for LPIA (among other things)
<davidm> that was the answer I got.  SO we have to monitor it.
<cjwatson> smagoun: what's this, checking on out-of-date packages between the architectures?
<cjwatson> smagoun: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing-ports/hardy_outdate.txt (etc.) may also be useful
<mdz> bspencer: I'm waiting for a response from Intel to the proposal and requests for followup discussions, and I'm told that Rusty is going to do that
<mdz> bspencer: I'd be happy to hear from anyone, to be honest
<smagoun> cjwatson: yes. We've run into several packages on gutsy where the LPIA build doesn't have the same bits as the corresponding i386 build
<cjwatson> (though it has noise from things that are building but just haven't built yet)
<bspencer> mdz, that's what I thought.  rustyl has been at CES distraction.  I'll remind him
<mdz> bspencer: you were CCed on it as well
<cjwatson> smagoun: if both have built but the contents are wrong, then I agree with davidm, that's definitely manual
<bspencer> mdz, yep.  I'll reply
<mdz> bspencer: mawhalen said she would mention it to Rusty but that he probably wouldn't get to it while at CES
<cjwatson> since sometimes the contents are meant to be different
<lool> cjwatson: I think the biggest problem was missing or out of date lpia binaries
<mawhalen> mdz: rustyl is back today, I'll speak with him.
<smagoun> cjwatson: I phrased that poorly. Builds are sometimes failing for LPIA though they work on i386, so LPIA winds up with older versions of a package than i386
<cjwatson> smagoun: ok, that's automated in various places as you've found, but if you can specify a particular query you'd like to have performed regularly then the archive team can help out
<smagoun> cjwatson: The query I think we need is "show me all packages that built on i386 but failed to build on lpia"
<davidm> OK are we good on this topic
<davidm> [topic] Discuss Intel Schedule Deliverables, Need more detail, who, what, when
<MootBot> New Topic:  Discuss Intel Schedule Deliverables, Need more detail, who, what, when 
<bspencer> big topic
<davidm> I've been trying to figure out what has been dropped when and I've had a very hard time matching to the SOW
<davidm> For example there was a mobile browser drop on 17 Dec but was it a beta drop or CES drop or what?
<davidm> I can't tell
<bspencer> mawhalen, do you want to take this?
<mawhalen> davidm: We released an internal image to our validation team on 12/21
<mawhalen> We called it our internal beta2
<mawhalen> All the browser code that is used for this drop is off moblin
<patm> we also need to sync on terminology wrt alpha and beta
<davidm> There are other things like that, there was supposed to be a applits drop on the 17th also but that did not happen but there was a drop on the 19th of December
<smagoun> mawhalen: The difference between internal + external version numbering is very confusing to many of us.
<patm> I would prefer if this group always used just the internal names
<davidm> So I'm some confused by all of this and not sure what actually needs to go into a build.
<bspencer> smagoun, package versions don't have any reflection of our internal "beta" milestones
<mawhalen> smagoun: what we really need is to have the version numbers posted off moblin to stop confusion when people hear about something not available external
<smagoun> bspencer: we hear a fair amount of "it's fixed in alpha 3"
<bspencer> davidm,  this is a topic that mdz has been addressing with rusty and I to get a clearer process for when things are pushed into Ubuntu from us
<mawhalen> David - what is the 17th mention?
<davidm> In the SOW schedule I have it shows a drop of moblin-applits for the 17 dec but there was no drop,   There  was a drop on the 19th however but I don't know if that was the 17th drop or something else.
<davidm> I've been working with Don to gain clarity but there are items that are very dense.
<mdz> bspencer: it's a related but distinct issue, I think.  davidm is looking for details about your schedule for putting out new releases of components, and deviations from it
<davidm> So that I can account to Don and Intel what is in a build that we deliver.
<mdz> bspencer: I think when we nail the larger process issue, this will be moot, but that will take time, and davidm has some specific questions
<davidm> Also patm relies on my schedule which depends on these items and their drop date.
<bspencer> davidm, I'm having to defer to mawhalen because I'm not intimate with the SOW.  I've seen it but don't track it myself
<davidm> So, we can take this off line if need be since we have some addition items that are critical for this meeting but I do need to understand this better.
<mawhalen> davidm: I just looked at Don's new schedule, yes we should take offline with Don.
<mawhalen> davidm: let's talk in the next meeting
<davidm> OK, [action] mawhalen Don_Johnson davidm to meet off line on schedule issues
<davidm> [action] mawhalen Don_Johnson davidm to meet off line on schedule issues
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mawhalen Don_Johnson davidm to meet off line on schedule issues 
<davidm> [topic] Discuss issues around libdrm and getting a working X for hardy
<MootBot> New Topic:  Discuss issues around libdrm and getting a working X for hardy 
<davidm> This is critical we still can't get a kernel and x working bryce, amitk can you inject here 
<davidm> We might be able to stay on gutsy but there are issues around that too.
<bryce> there's two issues with X, one about libdrm, one about -psb
<smagoun> davidm: I assume the issue is hardy, we have it working on gutsy
<amitk> All the kernel bits are ready for upload as soon as the alpha freeze is lifted
<cjwatson> alpha freeze> that's expected today, perhaps tomorrow at worst
<davidm> smagoun, the current gutsy fix is fragile from bryces point of view which increases risk
<bryce> libdrm:  the moblin.org patch to libdrm has been proving difficult to port to ubuntu.  It's a 63,000 line patch.
<agoliveira> Ouch...
<bryce> I got a new copy last night, so am going to give it another go today
<bryce> apparently Tungsten Graphics does their X development against git head of libdrm, and thus basically requires a git snapshot of libdrm
<amitk> they seem do all their development against git heads, including the DRM kernel bits.
<bryce> I think if they continue doing this, it's going to continue causing issues such as this in the future with the X stack.
<bryce> it's a really frustrating problem from the packaging side of things
<bspencer> amitk, bryce   can you send your comments about Tungsten in a verbose email we can follow up 
<bryce> it also makes it infeasible to roll any of the libdrm / -psb bits into Ubuntu proper, but that's a lesser issue for now
<amitk> can't there be alternate packages, so you have two full libdrm packages, one lpia-only
<bspencer> because they aren't here and we have to coordinate with other group working with them
<bryce> the second issue, and perhaps more critical, is the -psb driver
<mawhalen> bryce: amitk:  Rob has pursued this and has other information like diff files.  Rob could not join today but know he has additional information.
<mawhalen> please do summarize and make sure Rob Rhoads is on the email.
<amitk> bspencer: I think I have already put all my comments during or after UDS.
<davidm> [action] bryce and amitk to provide verbose emails to bspencer about issues surronding Tungsten
<MootBot> ACTION received:  bryce and amitk to provide verbose emails to bspencer about issues surronding Tungsten 
<bspencer> amitk, ok.  if done then I'll assume it has been communicated to Tungsten already
<amitk> bspencer: I will resend those emails
<bryce> bspencer: I've emailed about this in the past, and I'm arranging to go to the UME on site at Intel at the end of the month to try voicing this more clearly
<bspencer> bryce, sounds good.  thanks 
<davidm> In the shorter term what does it take to get a working image, is it possible?
<bspencer> bryce, psb driver... did you finish ?
<bryce> the second issue is with -psb - in addition to requiring the git head of libdrm, it's also developed against xserver 1.4's EXA 
<bryce> if we ship UME based on gutsy, this becomes a problem
<davidm> cjwatson, you had some thoughts on this?
<smagoun> bryce: As you know Intel's solution is to move aside libexa and ship their own copy. The actual diff between the gutsy EXA and the Intel EXA is quite small - maybe 10 lines.
<cjwatson> so it sounds to me from the call earlier that there are two alternatives for shipping UME: either a substantially modified branch of gutsy, or hardy
<smagoun> Building a new EXA for gutsy is no big deal for us
<bryce> moblin.org got around it by including a copy of libexa in the -psb driver, and simply overwriting the xserver's libexa.  This is a brittle solution, but sidesteps the problem.
<cjwatson> the key in the first case is that (AFAICT) we don't necessarily have to preserve correct operation on normal systems
<bryce> the second option would be to backport the EXA changes - which I've done in the past.  However it looks infeasible this time... too much code changes
<cjwatson> bryce: from your comments last night, it sounded like we would need to build a complete new X.org stack? Would that be easier if you didn't have to worry about keeping it working for normal Ubuntu users?
<bryce> the third option is to backport xserver 1.4 and related dependencies to gutsy.  I'm worried this could turn into a largish time commitment
<amitk> cjwatson: exactly the question I was asking above... can we maintain a separate stack?
<cjwatson> bryce: what parts break if one essentially just builds all the hardy packages on gutsy?
<smagoun> bryce: The delta between gutsy + Intel EXA is very small. Is a full backport really necessary?
<cjwatson> amitk: well, I wasn't even thinking of a separate stack, just blatting over the top
<bryce> cjwatson: possibly; although I suspect if it works, it'd work for regular users as well
<cjwatson> separate stack means renaming stuff which is generally fragile in the case of something with complex dependencies and maintainer scripts like X
<raji> asac, I have question about nm-applet windows, you there?
<amitk> for the kernel bits, in case of LPIA we just disable the stock kernel DRM and add the whole damn stack from Tungsten in LUM.
<bspencer> raji, we're in a meeting now.  maybe touch base in 15mins?
<raji> asac, ok. 
<bryce> there's a couple dependencies that'd need backported in addition to xserver; other than that, it'd also require rebuilding all the drivers and such
<cjwatson> smagoun: bryce referred to two separate instances of problems, one that happened in gutsy and one newer than that; is it possible you're referring to the older problem?
<bryce> anyway, that's where we're at with -psb.  I'm not sure which option is best to take.
<davidm> We are running short of time, does anyone object if we run over?
<davidm> After this Don_Johnson had a query
<bryce> (fwiw, the root cause of this issue was also that tungsten graphics had been doing the development against git head of xserver before 1.4 was released)
<Don_Johnson> I have to drop for another meeting. I was going t o ask about 8688 status, but we can cover that at the next meeting.
<davidm> OK Don_Johnson 
<cjwatson> it's hard to blame upstream developers for developing against git, really; it's the most expedient course for them to get stuff merged
<smagoun> cjwatson: Maybe I don't understand the problem. The psb driver is developed against a special version of EXA, which is very similar to the EXA in gutsy. EXA in hardy is at least as new as the one in gutsy, so there should be a smaller delta (intel's patches are from the exa development tree)
<cjwatson> smagoun: as I understand the problem bryce is describing, the psb driver targeted at hardy has jumped ahead considerably in terms of its EXA requirements, well beyond what's in hardy
<cjwatson> (and well beyond anything that's yet stable)
<bryce> smagoun: no, -psb is developed against a version of EXA that is similar to the EXA in hardy
<smagoun> bryce: Is there another Intel exa tree someplace? The only one I know of is at moblin.org, which is EXA 2.1 + a handful of small patches
<smagoun> (and it hasn't been updated since 10/2007)
<bryce> smagoun: that sounds like the one I put together last fall
<bryce> smagoun: in the beta3 of -psb there is a copy of the libexa tree
<bryce> unfortunatley it's not broken out by patches, so I don't know exactly what of it is needed
<smagoun> bryce: Is the beta3 version not public then?
<bryce> it's in moblin's git
<smagoun> forgive my ignorance, where? I haven't found it at the top level or in xf86-video-psb
<bryce> it's in xf86-video-psb/exa
<bryce> smagoun: I'd be happy to forward you emails with more background on this if you'd like
<davidm> OK, I guess for me the question is, short term how do I get a per-beta out next week?
<davidm> What is the best path for the short term which could be different for the longer term?
<bryce> well, assuming we stay with gutsy, the xserver backport seems like the cleanest, most likely to work solution, given the manpower to do it
<bryce> the other viable option would be to use the moblin hack of just copying libexa over the top of the xserver libexa.  Short term that may be sufficient, and probably not too much work.
<agoliveira> Fenario: Hi Jon. How's the party with the casino hostess?
<agoliveira> Ooops... :)
<davidm> OK, I think we take this off line and examine the best paths to solution then.
<bryce> my working plan is basically a) get libdrm built (problem #1), then b) test out the moblin hack on my own UME hardware, and finally c) we need to decide about whether to do the xserver backport, or move to hardy, or ....
<lool> I don't quite understand the big drawbacks we have in hardy?  In the past, stability was mentionned as an issue, but is this still the reason we're considering gutsy?
<davidm> We still are not on hardy yet.
<davidm> That is issue
<lool> Well I succeded in building hardy images until the new .24 kernel which is being fixed and what we target
<lool> Certainly I can agree there are visible issues on hardy, but these look like less work to fix than the gutsy discussions above
<cjwatson> bryce: could you start down that path on a time-limited basis? it seems that it'd be useful to make progress on this, up to and including the xserver backport - but if the UME project needs to move to hardy or face not being able to do anything, then that terminates the backport project
<bryce> cjwatson: sure; how much time should I limit it to?
<cjwatson> davidm: what are the time constraints here?
<cjwatson> as in what is your drop-dead date for making a decision?
<bspencer> do canonical mobile customers care whether we use hardy or gutsy?
<smagoun_> bspencer: from patm: no, they only care about features and whether the gfx drivers work
<davidm> we need to have a working solid product and then we can explain to customers what it is.  We have opened the possibility of gutsy prime as possible stability solution, but would prefer hardy since it has a better kernel and longer term support for security fixes and such
<agoliveira> bspencer: It's also an internal issue, if we could keep the same base for everything, easier.
<bspencer> yep.  k
<davidm> And I need to work to  a schedule and can't right now
<davidm> I need to produce a pre-beta next week and this is a blocker for it.
<amitk> davidm: besides the kernel and X what is required for a pre-beta?
<davidm> Some drops from Intel, and java
<davidm> Thus the first new topic on schedule from Intel
<davidm> Was supposed to happen today but I postponed to next week 
<bspencer> davidm, "some drops"  you'll work out with mawhalen in next meeting, true?
<davidm> Yes, this week and early next
<bspencer> and for java it should install and work.  (if you know the /persistmnt workaround for old kernel)
<davidm> before next meeting I hope
<davidm> bspencer, yes on java
<davidm> if we wait for next meeting I miss release since it's currently next thursday.
<bspencer> although I haven' t successfully run eclipse on a target image, I've run a few other java apps
<davidm> But that I can track with Don and Maurie
<bspencer> yep
<agoliveira> bspencer: Why would you run eclipse there?
<bspencer> debugging large app
<davidm> OK, I'll continue to work with Intel, bryce and amit to make sure we have a plan.
<agoliveira> bspencer: Well, this makes sense. Eclipse is a hog...
<bspencer> sure.
<bspencer> this was in xephyr, not on a device
<bspencer> my processor was capable but eclipse crashes
<bspencer> anyway, we digress.
<davidm> Moving on, there is only one open item left Don's query on the Marvel 8688 driver. Anyone have any input?
<davidm> Or we can revisit that next week
<davidm> [topic] Marvel 8688 driver status?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Marvel 8688 driver status? 
<amitk> davidm: In your meeting with Intel I would like to know delivery schedules of the kernel drivers that I mentioned 
<davidm> That is part of what I am asking about.
<amitk> Also our licensing agreement with marvell to ship the firmware for 8686 and 8688 is still open.
<davidm> OK, I'll carry the query on Marvel 8688 driver status to next week.
<davidm> amitk, I'll look into that
<davidm> I'm going to end the meeting unless more to review?
<amitk> thanks davidm
<davidm> gooingf once..........
<lool> Thanks
<davidm> that is going once..........
<davidm> that is going twice....
<davidm> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 18:30.
<bryce> inuka, I just tried the new libdrm patches you sent last night - they also fail to apply
<raji> asac, you available?
<bryce> inuka, it appears the issue is that the patches are trying to create files that already exist in the Ubuntu libdrm tree
<inuka> bryce, I am stumped. I applied the patches on source you had and it worked
<inuka> bryce, did all the patches fail?
<bryce> 00 applied
<bryce> 01 partly applied, but complains about many files already existing
<bryce> I didn't try the other patches
<inuka> bryce, bare with me since I am still a grasshopper on this kind of thing, but when I patch against the tar of the source you had it worked.... all of them 
<bryce> well let me ask this - when you do an apt-get source libdrm, before any patching, is there already a libdrm-2.3.0/shared-core/drm_pciids.txt file?
<bryce> patch 01 is trying to create that file (as an example), yet it already exists
<bryce> ohh
<inuka> bryce I didnt do apt-get source librm, I untared the libdrm source from your build and applied it against them.... am I doing something wrong...
<bryce> did you use  libdrm_2.3.0.orig.tar.gz, without the ./libdrm_2.3.0-4ubuntu1.diff.gz patch on top?  I bet that's it
<inuka> yes exactly, 
<bryce> ah, that would explain it
<inuka> oh
<bryce> yeah our goal is to get this stuff built atop the debian/ubuntu libdrm
<bryce> that orig tarball is the original upstream libdrm, before any of the debian changes
<inuka> I think some of the patches are alredy applied which is why its complaining, I will check it and e-mail.....   
<bryce> yup, that's what I think too
<bryce> this is why having them broken down will be helpful
<bryce> ok, I'll bbiab
<bryce> inuka, I can get the patches to apply and build by dropping all the Debian changes.  Not sure what we lose in doing this, but I'll go this route for now.
<inuka> bryce, you shouldn't be losing anything since the patches cover all the changes, with 0-3 covering each change up until Beta3
<bryce> alright
<bryce> whew, -psb is building finally
<inuka> bryce, appreciate your patience.... for a bit there I was going down a different road.
<inuka> bryce, hopefully the next time will be simple as syncing from the libdrm git tree.
<bryce> libdrm, -psb Hardy+Gutsy debs and packages posted...  http://people.ubuntu.com/~bryce/Testing/libdrm/ and http://people.ubuntu.com/~bryce/Testing/xserver-xorg-video-psb/
<InSearchOf> bryce, what team are you with?
<bryce> not sure what you mean, I don't think I'm with any team in particular
<InSearchOf> ubuntu core, MID, intel?
<davidm> InSearchOf, platform
<InSearchOf> ahhh ok
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-01-11
<InSearchOf> davidm, hows it going? your the mid manager correct?
<davidm> Mobile team manager
<davidm> Going OK at the moment, about to break for dinner
<InSearchOf> ahh... i put in my resume and i didnt know if your the one that would have reviewed my resume or not
<InSearchOf> but that is an outside of irc convo ;)
<S_Carr> Hi, I am interested in contributing to the UME project.  I was wondering if someone could give me a little advice about what I should do or what I should read to get started?
<bryce> hi S_Carr
<S_Carr> hello
<bryce> I'm not really sure where the intro documents are, but there's a lot of info about mobile projects at blueprints.ubuntu.com
<S_Carr> yeah, I've been browsing them
<bryce> S_Carr: http://moblin.org/ also has some good info on it
<bryce> this looks good too - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded
<S_Carr> I've noticed that certain blueprints and bugs have a little icon that indicates mentoring available.  If you were interested in that item would you just email the mentor?
<S_Carr> bryce: thanks for your help earlier
<DanaG> http://anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/intel/showdoc.aspx?i=3199
<DanaG> All about Menlow.
<DanaG> That's all.  Bye.
<DanaG> Oh, and I realized that the ubuntu-mobile apps seem not to deal well with large screens, but I guess that's not the intended usage anyway.
<dholbach> good morning
<lool> bryce: Cool that could build the libdrm and psb stuff \o/
<asac> raji: sorry for not coming back yesterday ... are u avail?
<raji> asac, Nm-applet blocks other windows when it launches ' create new network' dialog , I made a one liner fix, just wondering if you care about it? 
<asac> raji: yes plese. maybe open a bug against network-manager-gnome in LP ... I will integrate that in bzr and release on next update ... or you can do a bzr branch as well so i can merge in your change ;) - maybe a good experience :)
<GrueMaster> pat_mcgowan:  Are you in the room?
<pat_mcgowan> GrueMaster, yes hello
<GrueMaster> So, do you have an image to test w/o the beta3 drivers?
<GrueMaster> Or should I just use an earlier drop?
<pat_mcgowan> The one previous...
<GrueMaster> 1219?
<pat_mcgowan> I think 1220
<pat_mcgowan> hang on...
<GrueMaster> 1220 had the drivers but didn't work on Phoenix
<pat_mcgowan> GrueMaster, you are correct, 1219 is the one to test
<GrueMaster> Ok, I'll D/L it now.
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-01-12
<bryce> I got an error attempting to create a ubuntu-mobile fset (bug 182169)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 182169 in moblin-image-creator ""Unexpected error: Internal error" attempting to build a ubuntu-mobile fset" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/182169
<raji> asac, Could you share purpose of 'Create New Wireless Network' option of nm-applet. This feature doesnt work on our drivers. The dialog asks for Network Name (says creates a unencrypted network), does it expect a unencrypted AP nearby to create a network? I could not get any details on gnome website for this feature, please help.
<mjg59> It creates an ad-hoc network
<asac> raji: right ... it should create an ad-hoc network for you.
<riczhao> Hi, Is it possible to build UME for arm using qemubuilder?
<StevenK> Ubuntu (Mobile or otherwise) doesn't run on ARM, currently.
<riczhao> I know that, I just want to find a way to cross build things not using scratchbox or OE.
<StevenK> Oh right. I have no idea about cross-compilation.
<riczhao> Will ubuntu support arm in future?
<StevenK> I have no idea about that, either.
<riczhao> StevenK, Thanks!
<StevenK> riczhao: Sorry I couldn't be more help.
<\sh> moins
<\sh> does anyone know if adilson is working on a new hildon patch for galculator (new upstream 1.3.1?)
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-01-13
<frita> hi, I tried to install ubuntu in my playstation but couldn't... Now I just to get my playstation back as before
<frita> need*
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-01-05
<dholbach> hello my mobile friends!
<dholbach> happy new year!
<ogra> same to you :)
<ogra> .oO(no, i havent an idea about a developer week talk yet :P )
<dholbach> who would like to give a session about something mobile related at Ubuntu Developer Week?
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek/Prep is the preliminary schedule
<ogra> *g*
<dholbach> something with hands-on experience would be nice
<dholbach> like testing mobile images or maybe something about hildon *shrug*
<dholbach> I'm sure you have cleverer ideas than I do :)
<ogra> we do UNR as well this release 
<ogra> so netbook people might be intrested ... 
<dholbach> njpatel is already giving a session, I just thought it'd be nice to have a lot of cool mobile stuff on there
<ogra> yeah, indeed ... i'll put it on the agenda for the IRC meeting 
<dholbach> ogra: thanks a lot
<dholbach> maybe something like "how to make sure <graphical application> runs nicely on small screens" or something
<dholbach> maybe we can even invite a few maemo folks to hang out there and help out there as well
<ogra> heh
<ogra> rewrite it :P
<dholbach> awesome :)
<jinja-sheep> ubuntu-8.04-umpc-i386 --> missing in action?
<dholbach> ogra: when is that meeting?
<jinja-sheep> Yeah.  Don't forget to invite me to the meeting too. :\
<dholbach> jinja-sheep: the meeting is public and open to everybody
<jinja-sheep> dholbach:  Great.  When is the next meeting tho? 
<dholbach> ogra: thursday 12 UTC?
<jinja-sheep> You dev?
<dholbach> hm?
<jinja-sheep> Developer.  Contributer.  Part of the team.  Fanboy?
<jinja-sheep> Err... Loyal supporter would be the better term. :3
<dholbach> I'm an Ubuntu Developer, but I don't work on Ubuntu Mobile
<dholbach> I was just trying to pester somebody of the Mobile folks to add a session to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek/Prep :)
<jinja-sheep> I signed up for an account on Ubuntu (Brainstorm).  Seems like everybody is rooting for pointless features one too many. :<
<jinja-sheep> This is Day 2 for me on that forum.
<jinja-sheep> What languages do you know?
<dholbach> German and English, bits of French and words in different languages I picked up here and there
<dholbach> Brainstorm is awesome
<jinja-sheep> I mean the programming languages.  Sorry. ;o
<jinja-sheep> But you... know lot of languages.  That's amazing.  Really.  I know two.
<jinja-sheep> English + Sign Language.
<dholbach> woah cool
 * dholbach -> call
<ogra> dholbach, right
<dholbach> ogra: the earlier you can add it to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek/Prep the better
<ogra> we're all a bit drowning in arm and imagebuilding this month so i cant tell who can do anything yet 
<dholbach> ok
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-01-06
<guilag> hi, i only got a quick question. What is the big difference between ubuntu-mid and ubuntu-upmc ? from what I understand, ubuntu-mid is more oriented for device that has touchscreen right ?
<tripzero> i know there must be a good reason behind the "lpia" architecture
<tripzero> all the um packages seem to be in a different repo anyway, why not just keep in i386?
<tripzero> s/in/them*
<persia> tripzero, Actually, the "lpia" architecture is subtly different: there is a slight divergence, which is expected to increase, between the low-power in-order designs, and the high-power out-of-order designs.  While both run i686 code, the instruction sets are expected to have less in common in the future.
<tripzero> interesting
<tripzero> i didn't know that
<tripzero> thanks
<persia> tripzero, No problem.  I didn't know myself until about three months ago.  Someone from Intel came to UDS, and explained it in a session we had about possibly dropping the lpia architecture.
<persia> Note that some work has been done, so the ubuntu-mobile flavour should work for any architecture (e.g. i386) starting with jaunty.
<persia> Err.  s/months/weeks/
<tripzero> oh, so lpia might be dropped?
<persia> No.
<persia> We had thought about dropping it because it is a lot of work to maintain it, and many of us didn't see the benefit, and wondered why we couldn't just use i386.
<persia> The divergence was explained: it may not be so useful today, but it will likely become more useful soon.
<persia> As a result, we'll not be dropping lpia, and as the details of the divergence become more clear, "lpia" will probably be pushed upstream, and it (or some other similar string) become part of autotools, etc.
<tripzero> ah, okay
<tripzero> i'm messing with moblin image creator, it just seems like a pain for me to port my deb repo and packages for lpia
<persia> Note that until the divergence gets more formalised, lpia is basically just an i686-optimised build, with some experimentation in optimtimisations.
<tripzero> but it's not as hard as i'm making it...
<persia> Depending on your hardware, you may find it runs up to 3% faster than regular i386.
<persia> I'd recommend not using moblin-image-creator.  What are you trying to accomplish?
<tripzero> does it require a custom gcc for those optimizations?
<persia> I think gcc has some lpia-specific patches: you'd have to take a look at the gcc source to verify.
<tripzero> i'm the maintainer/creator for linuxice a smaller linux distro for in car entertainment
<persia> deb-based?  What's your upstream?
<tripzero> it's based on ubuntu feisty, which is end-of-life
<tripzero> I'm looking for a new base
<tripzero> and new tools that work with the new base
<persia> What sort of patch volume are you carrying?  Mostly application selection, or lots of changes?
<tripzero> we replace the desktop and dock with our own
<persia> So just application selection then?  Are your desktop and dock open?
<tripzero> yes
<persia> Well, I'll recommend you stop deriving then, and build a flavour within Ubuntu.
<tripzero> howso?
<tripzero> you mean like mythbuntu?
<persia> Precisely.
<tripzero> ahh
<persia> Mind you, you'd need *lots* of users to get official image builds, but it's easy enough to get the metapackages working, etc.
<persia> Also means you'd have no worries about patch load, because you'd be pushing patches into Ubuntu directly.
<tripzero> right
<persia> There's several carpc-type people who stop by here, and I'm sure there's a good base of interest.
<tripzero> yeah, no doubt there is interest
<persia> On the other hand, you lose a lot of branding: don't know exactly what that would cost you in terms of your current base.
<tripzero> the community is definitely building
<tripzero>  /growing
<tripzero> so we basically want to get our packages into ubuntu's repo
<persia> That'd be my recommendation.
<persia> Are they lintian-clean?
<tripzero> then as the community grows, we may be able to get official builds
<persia> That might take a while, but in the meantime, you could use the standard image build tools for local builds (like ichthux or ubuntume do today).
<tripzero> linitian-clean meaning properly build deb packages?
<tripzero> built*
<persia> meaning that when you run lintian against them, it returns no warnings or errors.
<tripzero> ahh, in that case no, i'm sure lintian will return warnings
<tripzero> but that can easily be fixed
<persia> OK.  You'd want to fix them first, and then submit the packages to revu
<persia> !revu
<ubottu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<persia> It's also probably worth hanging about in #ubuntu-motu: that team will usually be happy to answer any packaging questions, or questions about the procedure to get stuff into the repos.
<tripzero> cool :)
<tripzero> i appreciate the advice
<persia> Happy to help, although I'll admit it's selfish, because I suspect your work to make carpcs better will make my pocket devices work better :)
<tripzero> :) hope so.  I"m planning on grabbing me an aigo p8888 mid and loading our stuff on it.
<persia> That's not bad hardware, although I'll warn you that both the video driver and touchscreen driver are closed, which has caused no little annoyance to users.
<tripzero> persia: it probably uses the egalax driver is my guess?
<persia> For the touchscreen, yes, that's my understanding.
<persia> Mind you, the p8888 might be different than the others, but that'd be a big change, for little gain I'd expect to see for Aigo.
<tripzero> right
<tripzero> persia: what are the standard image build tools?
<persia> I'd recommend looking at debian-cd and livecd-rootfs.
<StevenK> debian-cd is a little heavy-handed.
<StevenK> We have a script that will make a .img given what livecd-rootfs creates
<persia> StevenK, Well, yes, but what do you think is best if one doesn't want a livecd?
<persia> (but yes, the script is *lots* easier for live images)
<StevenK> Um, I'm not sure, since I like live images. :-)
<StevenK> I'm also battling a 41 degC heatwave
<persia> Summer is a wonderful and debilitating thing.
<StevenK> I love summer, and hate excess heat and the headaches it brings
<ganes> i want the kernel used in MID 
<persia> ganes, OK.  Which release?
<ganes> intrepid
<persia> apt-get source linux-lpia
<ganes> persia, which repo i have to use if i want to install more package 
<persia> ports.ubuntu.com
<ganes> persia, i have to connect with this repo & to run your command .. am i correct 
<persia> You'd need to add a deb-src line for that repo.
<persia> You could also just connect to ports.ubuntu.com via http, and grab the files that way, if you like.
<ganes> deb-src http://ports.ubuntu.com/ intrepid main --- correct
<ganes> ok 
<jinja-sheep> Curious sheep:  How come there isn't a ubuntu-umpc-8.04.img ?  Since it's the LTS version.
<ganes> persia, how i come to know its a lpia 
<ganes> persia, i am using intel processor MID device
<ganes> persia, so which kernel source i have to download
<persia> jinja-sheep, Because the umpc effort wasn't started until May, and 8.04 was released in April.
<persia> ganes, the source of the linux-lpia package.
<ganes> persia, is it for both intel processor 
<ganes> i saw there lot of package there like power, sparc
<jinja-sheep> persia:  I'm customizing the ubuntu-umpc-8.10.img right now.  Trying to get rid of excess packages such as cellwriter.  I suppose I could be a friendly contributer to this project.
<persia> ganes, in http://ports.ubuntu.com/pool/main/l/linux-lpia/ ?
<persia> jinja-sheep, With what are you replacing cellwriter?  And yes, more people would be a good thing.
<ganes> persia, when i connect to repo i am getting the following error W: GPG error: http://ports.ubuntu.com intrepid Release: The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY 40976EAF437D05B5
<ganes> W: Failed to fetch http://ports.ubuntu.com/dists/intrepid/main/binary-i386/Packages.gz  404 Not Found
<jinja-sheep> persia:  Got Aspire One -- A child's laptop, that is. I tried mobile and it wasn't for me.  It appears to be targeted for touch-screen.  However, umpc was.
<persia> ganes, That's because there's no i386 repo on ports.ubuntu.com: it's other architectures (lpia, powerpc, sparc, etc.)
<ganes> persia, so what i have to do
<ganes> persia, it means my pc is a i386 
<persia> jinja-sheep, Yeah, the MID edition is for *much* smaller hardware: basically handhelds.  "umpc" is more for the small notebooks.
<ganes> then how can i customize for the MID 
<jinja-sheep> persia: I personally like maximus.  It is *very* appropriate for the small notebooks. ;)
<persia> jinja-sheep, At the time of the intrepid release, there were some conflicts with compiz, if I remember correctly.  More feedback and testing is *very* welcome.
<jinja-sheep> persia:  Personally, I'd just turn off compiz -- Given the situation that the laptop is running with Intel Atom 1.6mhz.  Better performance.  Just count me in. :)
<persia> jinja-sheep, Actually, depending on your graphics chip, might even be lower performance, due to offloaded widget rendering with compiz: really depends on the hardware and the quality of drivers.
<jinja-sheep> persia:  Interesting.  Is there anything I can do about power-management? Perhaps a certain package?  I'll have to search for it.  It seems that under "On Battery Power", it contains actions + display.  However... Put computer to sleep when inactive for N minutes.  I'd prefer shutdown.  Any thought / idea on that one?
<jinja-sheep> I'm aware that it's under... Gnome. Hmm.
<persia> I'm not a fan of shutdown for mobile devices at all: there's no good reason for the overhead of startup.  Just suspend with an RTC event to hibernate if you don't wake up for a bit.
<persia> I'll agree the screen-saver is pointless: I prefer screen-dim at 1min, and suspend at 2min.  Probably hibernate at 10-15, depending on the time-to-session from hibernate for the device.
<jinja-sheep> More choices will be nice.  "<select choice> computer when inactive for: N minutes."  I had issues with hibernation.  Seems like lot of people are too... from what I read on Brainstorm + forums.
<persia> hibernate doesn't tend to get the testing and bug reports it needs to work well.
<persia> Seems to me that many people prefer to just shut down rather than troubleshoot.
<jinja-sheep> Screensaver is luxury.  And yes, you're right...pointless.  I find blank screen to be more relaxing than screensavers and people would have more time to produce something better than screensavers in first place.
<persia> screensavers are *incredibly* useful for always-on phosphor-based display units.
<jinja-sheep> persia:  Consuming power is one of the issues.  If we could conserve more, there are more good things coming this way.  Less power bills and whatnot.  And I hate to shut down... with all my windows open.  Hibernation didn't work for me though (on the computer).  No big deal tho. :>
<persia> They're just pointless for energystar compliant TFT displays.
<persia> jinja-sheep, Yes big deal: find out *why* it doesn't work.  I'm sure one of your devices isn't getting turned off, or turned on properly.  File bugs with *lots* of details.  It can be fixed.
<jinja-sheep> persia:  I'll try to hibernate on the laptop right now.
<jinja-sheep> Suspend works just fine.
<persia> jinja-sheep, Thanks :)  It's getting hibernate to work that means we *can* shut down with all the windows open, because they will still be open later.
<persia> Of course, it would be nice to have a clean way for network-active stuff to pause at hibernate, but that's a separate project.
<jinja-sheep> persia:  What do you mean by that?  Leaving Pidgin, Browser, Torrent, IRC, etc running under suspend?
<jinja-sheep> Booting up from hibernation right now.
<jinja-sheep> persia:  Hibernation work too.  Now I'm changing the setting to hibernate for low power critical. :)
<persia> Excellent news!
<persia> And yes, so that e.g. pidgin would know when there was a suspend event, and disconnect cleanly from servers, reconnecting at resume.
<jinja-sheep> Lot of people (including me) wanted to have some kind of Gnome+Ubuntu barebone without the apps.  I tried the minimal disc.  The problem is that... when you install ubuntu-desktop, there's still lot, even for ubuntu-mobile too.  Ubuntu surely is expanding. 
<jinja-sheep> persia:  Nice knowing you.  I'm going to chill at #ubuntu and... I'll be around. 
<jinja-sheep> Take care. 
<persia> jinja-sheep, Chat with you later.  Good luck with your testing.
<Celtiorus> hi from france :)
<Celtiorus> nothing new about compal or aigo and ubuntu mobile ? :p
<persia> Celtiorus, Not that I've heard.  Still no touchscreen or video driver :(
<Celtiorus> thanks you persia
<rzr> hi
<persia> Hey rzr 
<rzr> hi there
 * rzr is hacking on nokia devices : http://rzr.online.fr/q/nit
<rzr> i'll have to test mer too
<BUGabundo_work> hi
<BUGabundo_work> I'm going to install a daily live on an eeepc100h
<BUGabundo_work> is UMPC usable currently right now?
<BUGabundo_work> s/100h/1000h/
<BUGabundo_work> ogra: ping ^^^^^
<ogra> umpc is going away
<ogra> so no, currently its not usable
<BUGabundo_work> ok
<BUGabundo_work> thanks for the heads up
<BUGabundo_work> so should I go with UNR ?
<ogra> umpc will become something similar within the next weeks
<BUGabundo_work> humm
<BUGabundo_work> so "right now" ogra, what is my best bet?
<ogra> but i'm extremely busy with other stuff atm so didnt care for it yet
<BUGabundo_work> generic?
<ogra> make a USB key from a desktop iso
<BUGabundo_work> okay
 * ogra needs to go back to other stuff
<StevenK> BUGabundo_work: Your best bet is Intrepid, at this point.
<persia> BUGabundo_work, If you *really* want jaunty, uninstall the metapackages, or expect massive changes.
<BUGabundo_work> eheh
<BUGabundo_work> already have jaunty on my own laptop for testing
<BUGabundo_work> this is a co-worker dualboot laptop
<BUGabundo_work> StevenK: do you know if usbcreator works with a 1GBs pen?
<persia> Then intrepid is the right choice.
<BUGabundo_work> making one with 8.10
<jinja-sheep> Got a minor issue.  There once was a 'X' (Close) button on top-right of the panel.  Apparently it disappeared.  How would I obtain it back?  I need to... close stuffs. :\
<jinja-sheep> Any helps would be nice.
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-01-07
<FreeSoul> hi guys! can anybody tell me why there are no more daily build images?
<ogra> FreeSoul, ? http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-mid/daily-live/20090106/ has an image apparently
<ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-umpc/daily-live/20090106/ as well
<ogra> (though the latter will vanish soon)
<FreeSoul> ogra: oh wow :) is was looking here http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-mid/intrepid/
<FreeSoul> many thanks for the link ogra :)
<ogra> :)
<playya> hi everyone
<ogra> hesy playya 
<ogra> *hey even
<FreeSoul> before trying... my mid has a microSD slot.... do you think it may boot from it?? anybody tryed?
<persia> FreeSoul, Depends entirely on the hardware: some devices can boot from SD, and some can't.  If you have a BIOS, check that.  If you don't, check the board docs, or your bootloader.
<FreeSoul> persia: i've a BenQ MID S6... i can't check this things at the moment... i think i'll give it a try
<FreeSoul> thanks
<persia> That *ought* have a BIOS, which should allow you to configure boot devices.
<FreeSoul> persia: on boot i see a bios splash screen but i've never tryed to enter the bios :) at the moment i have not an usb keyboard... i can't even try
<persia> FreeSoul, Well, when you get a chance then :)
<FreeSoul> :) sure
<mcgrof> I tested mid and umpc daily images on an eepcs 2g (surf), loaded fine, however neither installed. The MID failed due to an installer failure and the umpc failed due to lack of disk space (2GB only).
<mcgrof> looks nice though
<mcgrof> does both mid and umpc use Network Manager? I failed to check
<mojocafe> hello everyone. good evening or good morning depending on where you are :)
<persia> mcgrof, What was the installer failure for MID?
<persia> mojocafe, Hello.
<mojocafe> hi persia :)
<mcgrof> persia: some python jiberisish with fonts all mangled up so it was hard to read. Will try to take notes next time.
<mojocafe> this is my first time in here. can i ask a question about Flash under ubuntu-mobile?
<persia> mcgrof, If you could, that'd be great.  It shouldn't do that, and when it does, it's usually resolveable.
<persia> mojocafe, Certainly.  Ask anything you like.  No promises that someone has the answer.
<mcgrof> persia: sure, interesting -- so you've heard of success cases on the eeepc with mid?
<mojocafe> i hope that the question will not be too silly as a lot of *nix people do not like Flash :)
<mcgrof> I thought it was a partition issue but I checked the built in SD HD was not mounted
<persia> mcgrof, Actually, no.  I've only heard about umpc on the eeepc.
<persia> That said, I don't know why it wouldn't work, and am curious.
<persia> mojocafe, Just ask :)
<mcgrof> persia: would you happen to know if mid and umpc run Network Manager?
<persia> Yes, they both run Network Manager.
<mojocafe> Are there any mobile devices allready where ubuntu mobile runs on?
<mcgrof> persia: good -- know if that's Moblin requirement?
<persia> No idea, actually.
<mcgrof> persia: know who would know, or should I try the lists
<persia> mojocafe, There's two different flavours of Ubuntu Mobile: the MID and UMPC.
<mojocafe> mmmh. do they have fennec as web browser? or better: does the web browser support Adobe Flash?
<persia> I've seen a number of MIDs and subnotebooks running one or the other flavour: should work on most recent Intel-based devices.
<persia> For 8.10 both used midbrowser, as fennec wasn't ready yet.  Dunno if fennec will be ready for 9.04.
<persia> I think midbrowser supports the flash plugin, but I'm not sure.
<mojocafe> does the midbrowser support Flash?
<mojocafe> ah ok, thanks.
<ogra> it does
<ogra> its just firefox with ui changes
<mojocafe> ah ok. Is there somewhere a list showing what devices ubuntu mobile runs on?
<persia> mojocafe, It should work on nearly anything.  What device do you have?
<mcgrof> what is the hard drive size requirements for both umpc and mid?
<mojocafe> I have the n800. But i am not exactly thinking about the device itself but more of the display. I am the head behind www.mojocafe.net and would like to know if upcoming devices with mobile ubuntu will be supported....
<mcgrof> on the final installation, my umpc installation failed due to size, maybe without swap it'll fit
<mcgrof> mojocafe: n800 doesn't run intel atom IIRC. It has an OMAP processor
<mojocafe> :(
<mojocafe> I luv Ubuntu
<mcgrof> the OMAP proc is a TI processor, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Instruments_OMAP
<persia> mcgrof, Generally the recommendation is for 4GB space: you may have to juggle a bit to make something work with 2GB.
<persia> Also, most of the work to make the mobile flavours architecture-independent has been completed, so with 9.04 it might be possible to run on something else.
<playya> i install ubuntu mid on my eee. i finally got it
<mojocafe> it worked out?
<persia> mojocafe, Ah, I see.  The plan is to support nearly anything with >= 192MB RAM, >= 4GB secondary storage, and >= 800x480 pixels.  Dunno if this will ultimately be successful.
<mcgrof> persia: the installer doesn't seem to let me juggle currently, so it seems a custom image would be required
<persia> mcgrof, Or just use the installer to run something like debootstrap on the target, but yes, you'd have to do something special.
<mojocafe> persia: :) you got it .... the RAM and HD is not very important as the Flash files are very small. I think they have an average size of 10 kb. But the screensize is my first priority. And as i read so much about ubuntu-mobile i wanted to check if it allready runs on a device.
<mcgrof> persia: well I have debian now, but I liked the GUI interface umpc had going, not sure what I'd have to do to get from a deboostrap to it
<persia> mojocafe, I know it runs on several devices.  I don't remember the names of them all now.  There was a session at UDS where people brought their hardware to show off, and there was quite a variety.  Also, people mention all sorts of devices in this channel, some of which I've never seen.
<mojocafe> awesome!
<persia> mcgrof, debootstrap a base system.  Install ubuntu-standard.  Then look at the dependencies of ubuntu-mobile (apt-cache show ubuntu-mobile), and install whichever applications you need.  I think ubuntu-mobile-default-settings has most of the special interface stuff.
<mojocafe> ok. thanks a lot guys. see you later.
<mcgrof> persia: nice, thanks for the tip, I'll do exactly that, and I guess document it somewhere
<persia> mcgrof, Note that you probably have to install a *bunch* of applications to make it work how you want, but I suspect there's a couple things you could drop that might save space for your custom installation.
<mcgrof> persia: sure, like ooffice
<persia> heh.
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-01-08
<cjwatson> does anyone have /proc/cpuinfo from an lpia system handy?
<StevenK> Ish
<cjwatson> I'm working on bug 291670
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 291670 in base-installer "LPIA installer missing kernel" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/291670
<persia> I have a collection of those.  I can attach them to the bug if you like.
<persia> cjwatson, I've attached two I had handy, which were very similar.  I'll attach at least two others, I just have to dig them up.
<persia> StevenK, I think mine are different than yours (different hardware), so it might be interesting to push those two, just to show variance.
<StevenK> My Q1 isn't running lpia currently
<persia> intrepid live image?
<StevenK> Hm
<StevenK> Good point
<cjwatson> persia: thanks
<StevenK> cjwatson: Booting my Q1 to also add to the bug
<StevenK> (Helping you so I don't feel bad when I bug you after the meeting :-)
<cjwatson> the kernel installation script is going to be really simple, so there's not much possible variance - don't put too much effort in
<persia> There's two classes of chips that get a real lpia kernel: A1xx and Atom.  Everything else probably should have lpiacompat.
<persia> Since lpiacompat doesn't ship in the image, this will generate another bug, but that can be worked around differently.
<cjwatson> ah, in that case I would like to have a sample of A1xx, Atom, and something that requires lpiacompat
<cjwatson> does -lpia boot on non-A1xx/Atom chips?
<cjwatson> (at least in theory)
<persia> Does anyone have one of the Via EeePCs, or another C7M device in the channel?
<cjwatson> because if it does, then I can just fall back from -lpiacompat to -lpia if available
<cjwatson> fallbacks are good
<persia> For some chips, maybe.  Depends on the instruction set on the chip.  Also, no guarantees that it will continue to do so as lpia evolves.
<persia> lpiacompat is for chips that can't run lpia kernel, but can run lpia userspace.
<cjwatson> you guys should instruct me on what to do here
<persia> The VIA c7M is the most popular example.
<persia> How about I get the rest of the data you need to write the shims, and update the bug?
<cjwatson> persia: ok, yes please. BTW, if there's something in 'flags' in cpuinfo that I can use for the detection, that would be better than working off model names
<persia> I don't know of something for that.  I'll see if I can chase down a better answer from the kernel folk.
<cjwatson> StevenK: what am I going to be bugged about later? :)
<StevenK> cjwatson: livecd-rootfs, which will take about 15 seconds, and also about the ubuntu-mid daily fail
<cjwatson> ok
<lool> Grrr build logs disappearing from librarian, and I sent them in a Debian bug report as a reference
<lool> persia: I have a VIA C7 and I found its power adapter
<lool> It's been on the way to my desk for weeks now to push me into booting it
<persia> lool, Excellent.  Could you post /proc/cpuinfo to the bug?
<lool> Yeah, just finishing what I have in progress first
<lool> (need to write an USB key for it and all)
<lool> Hmm the MID image says Could not find kernel image: linux to me
<lool> On my VIA C7
<lool> Perhaps it's screwed
 * lool rsyncs and tries again
<lool> Suckage, even with the latest version
<lool> Interesting, it only boots once into syslinux, the second time it's boot failure
<lool> It seems this device is very picky
<lool> I kind of don't know what I'm booting actually since I don't get the boot.msg
<lool> Ah perhaps with a fat16
<lool> YES \o/
<lool> Stupid old crap
<lool> persia: Ah this is a VIA C3, Nehemiah
<lool> cjwatson: Did you have any interest in this?
<lool> cjwatson: (/proc/cpuinfo)
<lool> I'm in the initramfs and running a lpia kernel on it
<lool> AFAICS, lpiacompat isn't needed
<lool> What I have in cpuinfo: vendor_id is "CentaurHauls" model name is "VIA Nehemiah"; that's about all
<cjwatson> lool: go ahead and attach it
<lool> Not really attached but done
<mcgrof> umpc and mid do not use conman?
<mcgrof> lool: IIRC Via Nehemiah requires CONFIG_X86_GENERIC or something like that
<lool> mcgrof: Should I understand from your comment that it's not turned on in the lpia kernel or that I will see breakage?
<mcgrof> lool: I am not sure if it is or not enabled, check, but if its not I would expect your kernel to oops early as I ran into that same issue a while back when debian decided to remove that config option from their 686 kernel images
<lool> mcgrof: At least I can tell you I successfully load the kernel and an initramfs and run busybox in it
<mcgrof> lool: oh mine was VIA Nehemiah
<mcgrof> http://lkml.org/lkml/2008/7/21/162
<lool> so is mine
<lool> mcgrof: That's what I have as well
<mcgrof> oh then yeah it was CONFIG_X86_GENERIC that needs to be =y
<mcgrof> unless hpa fixed this somehow in recent kernels
<lool> I guess it's set in lpia
<mcgrof> I thought he wasn't though
<n_8> hello all.  i have a quick question if someone would be so kind to help me with
<n_8> i am running ubuntu-mobile with the hildon desktop as a second session for use as an in car computer
<n_8> i wrote an app utilizing adobe air that will run just fine under gnome, however will not launch one i am logged into the hildon desktop
<n_8> is adobe air compatible with ubuntu-mobile/hildon 
<lool> n_8: I don't know why it wouldn't work, but you should be able to run anything you run under GNOME under hildon, perhaps with more components running
<lool> n_8: Perhaps you're missing packages; check error messages in your .xsession-errors
<n_8> ok i will do that
<n_8> thank you
<n_8> one more quick question
<n_8> is there anything other than changing the .desktop file to get it to show in hildon?
<n_8> a particular application i mean
<lool> Depends of your version, is it the intrepid one?
<lool> 8.10
<lool> It's using Categories to select what to show
<lool> n_8: But yeah, it's just tweaking the OnlyShowIn and Categories in the .desktop file
<n_8> im using 8.04
<lool> It's also the case in 8.04, but with different combinations
<n_8> ok thank you
<lool> mcgrof: x86_generic=y in intrepid's linux-lpia lpia config
<lool> and lpiacompat as well
<mcgrof> lool: nice
<vit1251> hi all
<vit1251> i am have intersting about Ubuntu Mobile
<vit1251> can I install this on my PDA?
<vit1251> what i neet to do this?
<n_8> ok so i got the app to run by going into the terminal and using ./
<n_8> but why will the icon not launch the app?
<n_8> xsession-error says: attempt to exec invalid entry
<n_8> any ideas?
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-01-09
<persia> lool, If you can run without lpiacompat on a C3 Nehemiah, that doesn't match current documentation :/
<lool> persia: It's hard to prove lpia isn't broken on Nehemiah; as I said I only tried up to a busybox in an initramfs
<lool> persia: But I checked the relevant config items suggested here and it is correctly set
<persia> Right.  Someone (maybe me) needs to compare lpia and lpiacompat, and determine what systems really need lpiacompat.
<lool> Ack
<lool> persia: Or perhaps we should make lpia support less and lpiacompat support mor
<lool> e
<persia> I guess.  Until the lpia divergence becomes significant, I'm unsure.
<sskroeder> Hi all --- I use Ubuntu at home - and I'm now considering buying an Iphone 3G ... Does anyone here have some tips or advice.... I'm mostly concerned about how to put Mp3s on and such
<persia> sskroeder, You might do better in #ubuntu or a local channel.  This channel is mostly about building a flavour of Ubuntu to run on small devices (handhelds, subnotebooks, etc.), rather than on integrating other small devices with Ubuntu.
<persia> That said, perhaps someone here has the answer, as many of the people in the channel have odd devices.
<sskroeder> he he ... I was just redirected from #ubuntu to this channel  ;-D
<persia> Really?
<sskroeder> yup
<sskroeder> but thanks anyway persia, I'll try googleing some pages instead ;-D
<persia> sskroeder, I know there are several iPhone Ubuntu users, many of whom are happy, but I don't have one, so I can't tell you how well it works.
<sskroeder> he he ... mabye in a week or two, I can let you know ;-D
<chihau> hi everybody
<chihau> I have installed ubuntu-mid with apt-get, Hildo has started but I canÂ´t see the aplicactions icons
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-01-10
<mcgrof> I was pleased to find linux-backport-modules-intrepid on /cdrom/ on the umpc daily image
<mcgrof> got my wireless working, gonna try the debootstrap now, to see if it fits on an eeepc with only 2gb of disk space
<mcgrof> oh now wonder compiz works, intel 915
 * mcgrof wants to use ext4 though
<mcgrof> so is umpc stuff on jaunty?
<mcgrof> i'd like to use that
<mcgrof> for the debootstrap instead
<StevenK> UMPC is in flux in Jaunty, it's being replaced by Ubuntu Netbook Remix
<StevenK> Give it a few weeks to get sorted out.
<mcgrof> StevenK: alright, thanks for the heads up
<mcgrof> StevenK: can i read about this remix somewhere
<persia> mcgrof, You could, but most of the current stuff is about an out-of-repo derivative based on hardy.  Dunno exactly how much of that will apply when it gets absorbed into Jaunty.
<persia> Lots of use of clutter, and maximus to handle window management.
<mcgrof> ok got debootstrap installed, then ubuntu-standard
<mcgrof> but I see no ubuntu-mobile package
<mcgrof> is this is in a different sources.list entry for this
<persia> mcgrof, No, "ubuntu-mobile" went away for jaunty.  Try "ubuntu-mid" or "ubuntu-netbook-remix"
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-01-11
<petafile> So I have a tablet and there's buttons on the side for stuff like rotate/open journal/stuff, xev doesn't detect the events but the buttons light up when I touch them.  Any ideas on how to get them to be recognized
<persia> Try installing input-utils, and seeing if you can use them to determine what events should be sent.
<persia> You my find that the events provided are not seen by the kernel (needs patches), or more commonly, you may find that the events simply aren't progressing to X.
<persia> In the latter case, you can either fiddle with xorg.conf, or better, with .fdi files to get HAL to tell X to recognise them.
<petafile> what tool of input utils should I be using?
<persia> I generally start with lsinput, just to make sure I understand which devices are which.
<persia> I then tend to use input-kbd to try to get a map from each (this is incomplete for a variety of reasons essentially related to poor mapping between "keyboard" and HID)
<persia> Once I have a good idea what I'm seeking, I'll use input-events to find the keycodes for the specific key that won't work.
<persia> Note that some devices send "button" presses or ACPI events, rather than keypresses.  For buttonpresses, you can check with jstest from the "joystick" package.
<persia> I'm fuzzy on how to determine which ACPI events are being passed.
<mcgrof> persia: thanks, installed intrepid though on this eeepc, upgrading to jaunty now, but I still see no packages when I apt-cache search for ubuntu-netbook
<mcgrof> maybe I need to update my sources.list with some entries
<persia> Shouldn't need do so.  You've main and universe enabled?
<persia> Try apt-get update.  `apt-cache search ubuntu-netbook` should return something.  The metapackage name is "ubuntu-netbook-remix"
<mcgrof> yeah I have both main and universe, but searching for ubuntu-netbook yields nothing
<persia> Even after running apt-get update?
<persia> You're using jaunty?
<mcgrof> yeah
<mcgrof> deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu jaunty main
<persia> Very odd.  Which arch?
<mcgrof> deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu jaunty-updates main restricted universe multiverse
<persia> Oh, yeah.  You've only universe enabled in updated.  Add the other components to the first line.
<mcgrof> i386
<mcgrof> 66
<mcgrof> persia: i debootstrapped using i386 but uname -m is 686
<persia> That's fine.  add "restricted universe multiverse" to your first line above.
<mcgrof> persia: ok thanks
#ubuntu-mobile 2010-01-11
<dijenerate> persia: ping
#ubuntu-mobile 2010-01-12
<quickhand_> Hello!  I'm running the arm port of ubuntu on a smartq v7, but the default repository server, ports.ubuntu.com, is sloooooow (I'm in Thailand).  Anyone know of any more nearby mirrors?  Can't find anything on the web.  Thanks!
<StevenK> quickhand_: I can't find any mirrors of ports.ubuntu.com, at least.
<quickhand_> StevenK: thanks anyways!
<amb_> hello someone here
<ogra> yes
<ogra> :P
<persia> ogra: You have to be faster than that.
<ogra> haha
#ubuntu-mobile 2010-01-13
<Neo1607> take it this is the official ubuntu for mobiles channel?
<tech_> hi
<tech_> i need help with CID mobile no
<tech_> anyone online
<tech_> ...
<tech_> ...
#ubuntu-mobile 2010-01-15
<cooloney> dmart: just emailed you, 
<cooloney> dmart: please help to test
<persia> cooloney: Do you really want here, or #ubuntu-arm?
