#ubuntu-meeting 2005-03-04
<Treenaks> http://www.foksuk.nl/dag2.php?jaar=2005&week=6&dag=6
<Treenaks> uh
<Treenaks> ctrl+N not CTRL-M
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-03-05
<Treenaks> T-00:15:00
<mako> Kamion: around?
<Kamion> mako: yeah
<mako> ok.. lets find elmo and sabdfl
<Kamion> oh hell, CC meeting, I'd forgotten
<mako> bad time?
<Kamion> no, that's ok
<Simira> the meeting's now, right?
<TheMuso_> For some it is sorta. :)
<mako> in a couple minutes
<mako> TheMuso_: well, it's *always* a bad time for somebody
<mako> anybody seen mark today?
<TheMuso_> I don't mind. At least I managed to get some sleep beforehand. :)
<mako> should i call?
<Kamion> back in a few minutes, getting food
<mako> ok.. if mark's not around when kamion returns, i'll give him a call
<elmo_> he's in spain and running low on battery
<mako> hmm..
<mako> well, might be good to take a look over the wiki pages for the new members
<elmo_> err, his phone that is - not him personally ;)
<mako> ahh, ok :)
<mako> i will sms
<Mithrandir> somebody could just ship him a crate if so. ;P
<sivang> elmo_: mark is in spain? good for him :)
<Simira> I wouldn't mind be there myself right now... *freezing*
* Mithrandir fetches Simira a blanket
<ajmitch> morning
<TheMuso_> It is a really mild night here in Sydney, quite the opposite.
<ogra> hmpf
* ogra looks at the 40cm snow outside
<dholbach> ogra: how cold is it at your place in the mornings? still -8?
<Simira> ogra: oh, you finally got the 30cm I send you?
* dredg looks at the no snow outside
<ogra> heh
<ogra> dholbach: yup, about that
<Treenaks> snow? what's that? :P
<dholbach> *shudder* :-)
<Kamion> back
<mako> alright
<mako> i have SMSed Mark but don't know if he will show up
<mako> i think we should get started since there a number of things to cover
<mako> smurfix: are you around?
<mako> alright
<mako> unless there are any problems i think we should start at the top of the list
<mako> reply-to issue for ubuntu-users
<Treenaks> what's the issue, exactly?
<mako> i'm not completely caught up with on-list traffic but have gotten no negative feedback to ubuntu-users-owner
<ogra> there was no reaction at all i think
<mako> http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~mako/cc-summary-20050125.html
<Treenaks> mako: no sudden dip in # of subscribers either?
<mako> heh, no
<mako> i mean, no negative reaction is better than before
<mako> when we had at least a minor flamewar fortnightly
* Kamion nods
<mako> i see no reason to change it from what we have
<mako> it seems to be either (a) better or (b) the same in the eyes of most users
<mako> so, barring any flood of negative reactions in the future which could prompt a reconsideration, i'm happy to just make it permenant
<mako> if that sounds sane to others
<Treenaks> sounds OK
<mako> elmo_, Kamion: ?
<sivang> ++
<TheMuso_> Sounds fine. The users would be glad to hear that I am sure.
* Mithrandir is unhappy with it, from a technical perspective, but I can work around it in my MUA.
<ogra> me too
<elmo_> mako: ok
<mako> Mithrandir: i'm less than thrilled with it as well.. but i'm happy that i'm not getting followups to me personally that were supposed to be on the list anymoer :)
<mako> it's -users only after all
<mako> is there anything else anybody wants to add?
<Simira> I think it sound good.
<mako> otherwise, lets move on
<Kamion> mako: ok
<Kamion> I echo what Mithrandir said, but I've said that before :)
<mako> smurfix: when you appear you can comment on the loco team leaders
<mako> smurfix: or it happen happen after the meeting
<mako> if it's alright, i think we should handle the normal business before we do new members
<Treenaks> go ahead?
<mako> ogra: want to go ahead re the new motu?
<TheMuso_> np.
<ogra> we have had no second reviewer and since we can do it in the fast process yourselves, i would suggest to approve all of the as membrs now
<ogra> we can do the MOTU stuff later then, if we got a new second reviewer
<Treenaks> ogra: hm?
<mako> ogra: and on the angeda, you suggested treenaks
<ogra> i'm pretty fresh myself in packaging, so i think its necessary to have someone experienced aside here....
<mako> Treenaks: so, how do you feel about reviewing other people's debs
<mako> yeah, that's my concern
<ogra> i know treenaks was DD for a while before ....
<mako> it will be hard to replace haggai 
<Treenaks> mako: I'd like that :) I need to pick up packaging again anyway
<Treenaks> and I've done some Debian maintaining in the past..
<ogra> mako: i really prefer working ooo2 packages ;)
<Treenaks> ogra: I'm not going to take over OOo2 packaging :P
<mako> Treenaks: right.. but i'm worried about having someone with the ability to really vet packages and maintainers that are coming in on a technical level
<ogra> heh
<mako> i'm asking if you think you're comfortable in your ability to do so or if you think we should trying to bring in someone else either in addition or in place
<Treenaks> mako: well, I did pass the Debian P&P
<Kamion> you mean tasks and skills?
<Treenaks> Kamion: uh T&S, yes
<mako> Treenaks: i'm worried more about tasks and skills
<mako> and i see a difference between being comfortable in ability and skills and being able to successfully convince someone by answering questions :)
<Treenaks> mako: I can imagine that :)
<mako> when i passed NM, i don't think i was a level where i'd want me to have this role alone :)
<Treenaks> mako: uh, how do I convince people? :)
<mako> Treenaks: i'm just asking you if You are comfortable
<Treenaks> mako: I am
<elmo_> Treenaks: big sticks usually help
<ogra> mako: the reviewing is mostly done in a group, so there are enough eyes to help ....
<Treenaks> I've packages lots of stuff internally for my previous job
<mako> alright.. :)
<mako> is there anyone else that is interested in taking on some responsiblities as part of the MOTU group?
<mako> (packaging ninjas encouraged to apply)
<crimsun> mako: we peer-review
<ogra> dholbach is our current packaging ninja ;)
<TheMuso_> I guess so. The accessibility stuff for one.
<dholbach> ogra: thanks for the flowers :-)
<mako> TheMuso_: this is more for vetting new universe maintainers than for working on any sub-part
<TheMuso_> Righto.
<mako> crimsun: ok. that's good
<ogra> dholbach: you do an awesome job.... so its deserved ;)
<Mithrandir> mako: I guess full maintainers don't have to wave their hands?  I do amd64 stuff in both universe and main already.
<mako> Mithrandir: if you're volunteering to help approve new universe maintainers.. :)
<dholbach> mako: i already did a heap of package reviews, although i'm not a DD or a packaging black belt ninja :-)
<dholbach> mako: if you talk about that part of responsibilities :-)
<mako> Mithrandir: nobody is going to say no
<Mithrandir> mako: I can approve anybody who wants to help out with amd64^W^W^W^W^W^W^W^Wnew subjects. :)
<ogra> heh
<Mithrandir> mako: I would need to get more familiar with the process first.
<mako> Kamion, elmo_: any objections to treenaks?
<Mithrandir> since I've only followed our members/MOTU/* stuff cursory.
<mako> Kamion, elmo_: as a MOTU approver
<Kamion> Treenaks is fine, I think he's one of the names I suggested when ogra asked me about this
<mako> perfect
<Kamion> I don't see why Mithrandir couldn't help out significantly too
<ogra> Mithrandir: you dont need to know the process to review packages....
<mako> well barring an objection from elmo, i think you're good to go Treenaks 
<elmo_> i'm fine with either treenaks and/or mithrandir
<ogra> its just judging the quality.... (a bit of a elmo clone )
<Treenaks> mako: OK, thanks
<Mithrandir> ogra: if it's just package review, I can help out.
<Mithrandir> ogra: I'm harsh when it comes to quality, though. :)
<ogra> great !
<ogra> :)
<ajmitch> Mithrandir: that's ok :)
<mako> Mithrandir: thanks, that's great
<mako> alright then
<mako> in terms of the website review/remake.. jdub is the one who can comment on that
<mako> although i know there should be announcement Real Soon Now
<mako> unless he shows up, i'm not sure what more there is to say
<mako> which brings us to.. candidates for membership
<mako> there are pages linked from the wiki
<hno73> Well, anyone with wishes or ideas for the website can email henrik@canonical.com
<mako> i went through and looked them over already but it's worth doing this
<mako> as we
<mako> hno73: cool, are you handling this now?
<hno73> mako: Yes, for better or worse :)
<hno73> I'm sure once I start making drastic changes I'll get some feedback :)
<mako> hno73: i won't comment on which i suspect it is ;) thanks for handling it though!
* mako has been doing part of that job recently.. certainly for worse ;)
<hno73> Heh. I've been keeping busy with this site: http://www.theopencd.org/
<hno73> Not as complex as the Ubuntu one though
<mako> alright.. so lets start looking at new members
<mako> scott ritchie
<mako> ogra: isn't scott around a universe maintainer and a member?
<ogra> he is the guy that repackaged wine....
<mako> right
<mako> i don't have a signed CoC but..
<ogra> i havent seen any other packages yet...so only for member for now
* mako nods
<mako> well i've seen scotts work and i'm happy approving him
<mako> elmo_, Kamion: ?
<elmo_> no objections, don't enough to comment any more than that
<mako> it would be good to get some confirmation from kamion
<Kamion> Scott's the wine guy, I'm happy for universe at least
<mako> well, this isn't for maintainershp, just for membership
<Kamion> absolutely
<mako> any decision about universe stuff can be made by teh motu team
<mako> awesome
<mako> lets move on
<mako> scott ritchie = member
<ogra> next is wasabi...
<mako> Jerry Haltom/wasabi
<ogra> (jery haltom)
<mako> i've seen wasabi around but am not too familiar with his contributions
<ogra> he has already contributed packages....
<mako> ogra: 
<elmo_> mako: for what?
<jbailey> I've been working with him.
<jbailey> (wasabi)
<mako> membership.. just membership
<ogra> ecj-bootstrap
<elmo_> fine by me for membership
<mako> jbailey, ogra: you'll vouch for the contributions?
<ogra> yup
<mako> then it's fine by me
<jbailey> mako: Yup.
<mako> Kamion: wasabi? sound good?
<mako> next is Mattias Eriksson
<mako> nick:snaggen
<Kamion> wasabi++ for membership
<mako> small set of packages online here: http://www.acc.umu.se/~snaggen/ubuntu/
<ogra> havent looked yet
<mako> wasabi = member
<ogra> btw, who cares for the Members list 
<ogra> ?
<mako> i haven't looked at them either but have seen snaggen around
<Kamion> snaggen needs to give those packages an Ubuntu-specific version number or denote his changes somehow; they seem to be modified versions of somebody else's packages
<mako> ogra: i have a list of signed coc's.. it's not entirely complete
<crimsun> ogra: aren't we supposed to? ;)
<Kamion> so it's hard to tell how much he's done
<Kamion> especially since it's natively packaged rather than .diff.gz
<mako> ogra: it doesn't have all the canonical people .. and i haven't gotten signed coc's from most of them
* mako nods
<ogra> crimsun: for MOTU i'm happy to do it...but i dont know all the members out there
<crimsun> ogra: gotcha.
<ogra> Kamion: i'll contact him
* mako would personally be most comfortable putting off a decision on snaggen until the next meeting.. to let the contributions develop a little bit
* haggai sighs at bouncy internet connection today
<mako> see if we can the packages cleaned up and into the archive
<ogra> yup
<mako> i don't suspect it will be a problem :)
<Kamion> ogra: (I've left a note on his wiki page)
<ogra> ah, great
<mako> Kamion, elmo_: any objection to deferring the decision irt snaggen until next week/meeting?
<elmo_> mako: no, sounds like a plan to me
<mako> AaronLake
<Kamion> yeah, his blog said he installed Ubuntu on 23 Jan, seems kind of soon :)
<mako> metalikop
<ogra> he helped a lot already...
<ogra> on the pythin transition 
<ogra> s/i/o
<mako> excellent
<dholbach> yes... i uploaded 2 or 3 of his python packages 
<Kamion> it would be helpful if metalikop would put his contributions on that wiki pgae
<Kamion> page
* mako nods
<mako> there is very little there
<Kamion> the PHP5 thing seems to be there by accident, judging from the history
<Kamion> http://www.metallikop.com/blog/index.php?p=50 has some packages
<ogra> Kamion: it is on the python transition page
<dholbach> they are mentioned here: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/UniversePythonTransitionTODO
<dholbach> (quite at the end)
<Kamion> but only links to binaries, and the directory gives 403
<mako> Kamion: what is your feeling.. ask for a more threshed out page? with contributions?
* Kamion leaves a blog comment
<ogra> lok at imgsizer, cfv, duplicity and gnome-mud in universe
<ogra> look even
<dholbach> he has them hosted at: http://ubuntu.arslinux.com/hoary/uploaded-to-hoary/
<crimsun> I've helped him with package reviews; he's definitely prime for membership imo
<Kamion> ok, based on recommendations I'm ok with him for membership, but I'd like him to produce a more fleshed out page before maintainership/MOTU
<mako> crimsun, ogra, dholbach: alright.. i'm willing to take your recommendations
<elmo_> yeah, me too
<mako> great
<elmo_> (god we're all so easy)
<ogra> heh
<dholbach> hehe
<mako> LukeYelavich
<mako> metalikop = member
<mako> luke is TheMuso_, yes?
<ogra> havent seen any packages, but he did a reasonable liveCD contribution according to the ML 
<TheMuso_> mako: That is me, yes.
<mako> TheMuso_: the wiki pages should include information on the contributions to the community you have already done as well as stuff you are interetsed in working on
* Kamion digs up the thread
<mako> i guess some of that is there
<mako> TheMuso_: want to give us the executive summary?
<mako> accessiblity documentation?
<mako> ahh.. i remember this thread
<sivang> TheMuso_: you can use this page as a template http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/SivanGreen :-)
<Kamion> I haven't looked at the accessible live CD yet, but if it does what it says on the tin it's definitely a major contribution
<TheMuso_> Ok. In the accessibility team area of the wiki, http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/AccessibilityTeam I have recently created some pages where GNOME apps could be listed as being accessible or otherwise, and also created a page on the Live CD work I am currently doing. This work is also known upstream with the Gnome accessibility devleopers.
* mako followed that thread and a few others luke has participated in.. that plus the documentation counts IMHO
* mako votes in favor
<ogra> mako++
<Kamion> oh, in case it wasn't obvious, my comment above was a vote in favour
<TheMuso_> Kamion: The live CD was available on a torrent, however it is currenlty not up atm, and I am not at that box either.
<mako> elmo_: ?
<mako> NiallSheridan is up next
<ogra> dredg
<mako> ogra: alright
<mako> also done some python stuff, no?
<ogra> has helped on the python transition
<mako> right, i caught that earlier.. 
<ogra> his mbot package is in universe
<mako> and has a little repo of packages online
<ogra> yup
<dholbach> i already uploaded mbot for him, although his NEW packages unfortunately always clashed with other peoples plans :-)
<mako> ogra, dholbach: what are you feelings?
<ogra> thubs up from here
<dholbach> i'd be happy to have him in the MOTU crew :-)
<ogra> thumbs even
<mako> dholbach: well, bring taht one up with ogra and Treenaks  :)
<dholbach> mako: yes... of course
<elmo_> mako: I'm okay with it if you two are
<crimsun> he's good for membership imo
* mako feeling is a yes as well... 
<ogra> so lets make him a member :)
<mako> i've seen some of the pythno work
<mako> Kamion, elmo_: almost done
<mako> Kamion, elmo_: feelings about dredg?
* dredg spots the glowy yellow
<Kamion> sorry, catching up, one sec
<dredg> sorry, work kind of got in the way there
<Kamion> the wiki pages need to have a more useful <title> than "Ubuntu - wikipage", damnit
<dholbach> Kamion++
<ogra> Kamion+++
<TheMuso_> Agreed. :)
<dholbach> hehe :-)
<Kamion> dredg: could we have source packages in http://niall.frogstomp.com/ubuntu/, please? hard to tell much from just .debs
<dredg> Kamion: yes, of course. that's due for a bit of an overhaul
<dredg> Kamion: there are some things in /wip 
<dholbach> well and: http://niall.frogstomp.com/python/mbot/
<sivang> Kamion++
* Mithrandir watches Kamion overflow and become -(2^64-1)
<Mithrandir> (at least his karma :)
<dholbach> mbot is in universe
<dholbach> i reviewed and uploaded it
<ogra> i've seen that one too and it was ok...
<Kamion> I'm ok with dredg
<dholbach> woohoo
<ogra> fine
<mako> cool
<mako> still waiting on elmo for the last two
<mako> on more member candidate:
<mako> JaniMonoses
<ogra> has worked on pythoncad
<dholbach> jani also did some python transition work
<elmo_> mako: eh? two?  anyway, ok with dredg
<ogra> which is uploaded for him in universe
<mako> elmo_: oh never mind.. missed your last message i guess :)
<dholbach> i have two packages which just need minor changes to pass
<mako> dredg = member
<dholbach> well... two packages of  jani 
<mako> jani: you around?
<jani> here
<mako> want to give us the summary of your contributions to ubuntu so far?
<jani> one package uploaded by dholbach as part of pythontransition
<jani> two more pending review
<Kamion> jani: (the text-based bullet point syntax you've used in the rake.1 man page isn't particularly great for man pages, BTW; might want to read groff_man(7) for how to do lists)
<jani> one package unrelated to python, new not in debian yet
<jani> Kamion: it was either what dh_make generated
<Kamion> well, I say "lists", really indents is all you get in -man, -mdoc's better at that
<Kamion> jani: no, I'm referring to the text you pasted in, it needs to be reformatted for use in a man pages
<Kamion> pages
<Kamion> AARGH page
<jani> or what I copied form man ls(1)
<jani> Ok was my first manpage :)
<dholbach> i'm very comfortable with him nevertheless
<Kamion> you need to look at the source, not the output :)
<ogra> he was very helpful already in the python transition...
<jani> kamion, yep man ls(1) viewed with vim
<Kamion> anyway, I'm ok with jani
<jani> I copied from the osurce
<Kamion> jani: let's talk about it separately from the meeting
* mako is alright with jani also
<mako> elmo_: ?
<mako> so.. with that out of the way
<mako> smurfix: still not around?
<mako> is there anyfurther business for the CC?
<mako> going once
<sivang> ogra: would you be happy with me as a MOTU? I've only worked on the gnome-system-tools and system-tools-backends pkgs 
<Simira> is it possible to get the ubuntu-no mailing list open without LoCo up and running?
<mako> sivang: lets handle this after teh meeting
<sivang> mako: sure
<mako> (or in another channel)
<Simira> (I've bugged both smurfix and jdub about it, and did send a mail to Jeff as I was told)
<mako> Simira: i think the two should go hand-in-hand
<Simira> mako: ok
<mako> Simira: but i don't see that as a problem.. many loco's are little more than their list and a wiki
<Simira> mako: so I'll have to wait for the next cc then?
<mako> Simira: not at all
<mako> Simira: smurfix can approve you as a loco leader and just tell us about it
<Mithrandir> Simira: I could just make brukere@ubuntu.no or something :)
<mako> Simira: it can happen latter today
<mako> and jdub is the person who can make the lists
<Mithrandir> (users@ubuntu.no for those who doesn't do Norwegian)
<Simira> Mithrandir: rather translation or oversettelse would be nice
<mako> Simira: sound good?
<Simira> mako: I did both talk to him on IRC and mail him. But that's ok.
<Simira> mako: good
<mako> Simira: i think it's a formality at this point. :)
<mako> any other business?
<Simira> mako: I suppose :)
<mako> alright then
<mako> Kamion, elmo_: any objections to the same time in two weeks?
<Kamion> this time works well for me, although I've noticed smurfix doesn't tend to be able to make this time which is a bit inconvenient
<dholbach> jani would still need an ACK of elmo_ i guess?
<mako> dredg: yeah.. we'll get to it
<mako> Kamion: right, but smurfix is also not here to tell us what time he could make :)
<mako> alright, then.. lets say 1600 on the 8th
<mako> perhaps a bad time
<dredg> mako: hmm?
<ogra> oh, yes, we're still missing elmos vote for jani
<ogra> (or against ?)
<mako> no.. nevermind.. it seems to be a fine time
<mako> alright
<mako> thanks everybody for showing up!
<mako> i'll post a summary
<TheMuso_> Welcome.
<ogra> mako: jani ?
<sivang> thanks all, laterz.
<mako> ogra: what abut jani?
<ogra> mako: member or not ?
<ogra> mako: elmo didnt answer your last question.....and you moved on to loco
<mako> ogra: still waiting for elmo. but probably yes
<ogra> just thought you missed it :)
<elmo_> sorry, had to deal with some people at DC
<elmo_> ok with jani, if I'm not too late
<metalikop> hi all
<dholbach> metalikop: you've been made a member
<metalikop> !  Thank you very much.
<dholbach> you'll have to read  http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-meeting-current.html , i fear
<jani> thanks all
<jani> bye
<dholbach> bye
<mako> elyou're not too late
<mako> metalikop: if you wait for a bit, there will be a summary
<ogra> mako: http://www.livejournal.com/users/lifeguardasleep/21211.html
<mako> nice! :)
<mako> ogra: who is lifeguardasleep?
<ogra> yup :)
<ogra> dholbach
<mako> ahh, nice :)
<ajmitch> ogra: btw who was chosen to approve new MOTUs & review packages?
<ajmitch> Mithrandir?
<ogra> and Treenaks
<ajmitch> ok
<ogra> so we have a fallback if one is missing.... which is a great thing
<ajmitch> yep
<smurfix> Bah. Last time I was on vacation with a broken hard disk this time I had to fix my uncle's box .. with a broken harddisk. :-/
<zul> so suck up to those two :)
<smurfix> just for the record, the meeting time is OK for me
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-03-06
<mjg59> Who should kernel issues be assigned to?
<Kamion> (answered on #ubuntu-devel)
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-02-27
<mhz> Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 Feb 02:30 UTC: Ubuntu-Cl | 22 Feb 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 22 Feb 20:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 23 Feb 20:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 3 Mar 21:00 UTC: Documentation Team | 7 Mar 12:00 UTC: Community Council
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:mhz] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 Feb 02:30 UTC: Ubuntu-Cl | 22 Feb 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 22 Feb 20:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 23 Feb 20:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 3 Mar 21:00 UTC: Documentation Team | 7 Mar 12:00 UTC: Community Council
<mhz> mruiz: vendra jarufe?
<mruiz> mhz: creo que s...
<mhz> hasta que hora le esperamos?
<mruiz> te parece que a las 12 comencemos?
<mhz> jarufe: buenas!
<mhz> lo esperabamos
<mhz> mruiz: jarufe: pipi y vuelvo al tiro (2 mins)
<jarufe> mhz: holas 
<jarufe> mruiz: hola
<mhz> okis senores, Ubuntu-Cl entra en sesion
* mhz es Mauricio Hernandez
<mhz> pueden presentarse para registro de logs?
<mhz> registro = efecto
<mhz> mruiz: ?
<mhz> jarufe: ?
<jarufe> mhz, wait 3 second 
* jarufe es Luis Merino 
<mhz> mruiz: ?
<mhz> Bueno..
<jarufe> mruiz ? 
<mhz> En el wiki estaba esta agenda
<mhz>     *
<mhz>       Plan 2006 de Difusion de Ubuntu y sabores
<mhz>     *
<mhz>       Organizacion del Wiki
<mhz>     *
<mhz>       Implementacion del Foro en ubuntu-cl.org
<mhz>     *
<mhz>       Definicion de Equipos en Ubuntu-cl
<mhz>     *
<mhz>       Traduccion del CoC
<mhz>     *
<mhz>       Tour Ubuntu LA (posibilidad de replicarlo en Antofa y sur?)
<mhz> Trabajaeremos en ese orden?
<mhz> trabajaremos = discutiremos en ese orden
<mhz> ?
<jarufe> okey me parece 
<mhz> le damos, entonces
<mhz> Plan 2006 de Difusion
<mhz> En mi humilde opinion (IMHO), un Plan de Difusion incluye marketing
<mhz> estamos de acuerdo?
<jarufe> total%
<mhz> Marketing involucra: Definiciones de Objetivos, Definiciones del "producto", Definiciones del "usuario/publico"
<mhz> Definiciones de "donde se insertara el producto"
<jarufe> cuales son los recursos que tenemos en estos momentos .. para comenzar con una base ...? de plantiamientos --- 
<mhz> Apoyo de Canonical en cuanto a "merchandising"
<mhz> uso de un buen nombre como Ubuntu
<mhz> dominio web
<mhz> servidores
<jarufe> muy importante ...eso 
<mhz> ML
<mhz> y pronto el foro hosteado bajo el mismo dominio oficial
<mhz> y la creencia de Canonical que en Chile haremos cosas
<mhz> A nivel "gente", yo solo he sabido de jarufe y mruiz
<jarufe> creo k el foro es un  canal importantiso .. 
<mhz> sip
<jarufe> yo conozi algunos k se lo llevo la net 
<mhz> para mi, al menos, si no hay constancia, no "apoyo" con que contar
<mhz> o sea, en un plan, no podria considerar a personas que "a veces" o "a lo mejor" participan
<mhz> Entonces, en recursos "fisico" tenemos toda la infraestructura web de canonical
<mhz> y el merchandising de los CDs
<jarufe> mhz ? 
<mhz> y algunas otras cosillas que podriamos solicitar (pero en mucha menor cantidad)
<mhz> jarufe: ?
<jarufe> se tiene algun limites de gente para la administracin de ubuntu-cl ... 
<jarufe> o eso queda a criterio de los adm... 
<jarufe> ?
<mhz> nope, pero si un "perfil ideal"
<mhz> 1) Ubuntero (firma de CoC)
<mhz> 2) que se le conozca constancia en labores comunitarias
<mhz> 3) que no sea vaca
<jarufe> lo pregunto como experiencia ... de lo que se vivio el comienzo de ubuntu-cl 
<mhz> :)
<jarufe> habia como 20 adm 
<mhz> jarufe: para mi, un admin tiene tareas especificas
<mhz> mientras ese admin las cumpla... para que tener 3 mas que repitan la rueda?
<mhz> volviendo a Difusion,
<jarufe> mm okey 
<mhz> propongo que una vez hayamos definido todo lo mencionado al incio, 
<mhz> listemos las distintas posibilidades "concretas" de llevar a cabo activiades de difusion
<jarufe> oka ... cuando ya se tendra el foro en el dominio ubuntu-cl.org 
<jarufe> ?
<mhz> hoy tengo muchas ideas pero si no tenemos claras las capacidades de respuesta para afrontar tareas.. dificilmente podremos hacer siquiera un install fest :D
<mhz> jarufe: de momento, para mi, mruiz es Mr. Foros
<mhz> mruiz: el foro esta ok, cierto?
<jarufe> okey pero mientras centralizemos todos ... seria  mejor ... 
<mhz> jarufe: lo que creo que falta es mudarlo a ubuntu-cl
<jarufe> mhz, me gustaria saber las ideas k tienes ... para ir complementando y acoplando las mias 
<mhz> jarufe: okis, cero problema. las listare en el wiki manana en la noche
<mhz> revisa RecentChanges y te suscribes a las paginas editadas
<mruiz> :D
<mruiz> me ca :S
<mhz> jarufe: estas de acuerdo que antes de lanzarnos a discutir actividades, primero definamos esos puntos mencionados?
<jarufe> hola mruiz 
<mruiz> hola jarufe
<mruiz> mhz, jarufe: de qu me perd?
<jarufe> comenzamos con el primer pto 
<mhz> mruiz: estamos analizando Difusion
<mruiz> ok
<jarufe> en resumen ... 
<jarufe> tenemos lo fisico y la  merchandising  
<mhz> mruiz: yo propongo definir las bases sobre las cuales elaboraremos un Plan de Difusion y Marketing de Ubuntu-cL
<mhz> agregar un FODA (resumido) y hacer una lista de actividades que creamos podremos relaizar durante el 2006
<mhz> obviamente, la definicion de todo eso sera en el wiki, no en IRC (podriamos estar hooooraaaas)
<mhz> jarufe: estas de acuerdo?
<mruiz> jajaja
<jarufe> oka 
<mhz> mruiz: de acuerdo?
<mruiz> mhz, jarufe: estoy de acuerdo con elaborar el plan... la idea sera fijar una misin/visin, luego objetivos y actividades
<mhz> si pues
<mhz> eso lo hacemos en el wiki
<mhz> yo me ofrezco a crear las paginas con el contenido inicial y ustedes lo bombardean
<jsgotangco> chile team meeting? :)
<mruiz> jsgotangco: yes 
<mhz> jsgotangco: yup
<jsgotangco> coolies
<mhz> until 00:30 if no one else arrives
<mhz> asking for the 'floor' ;0
<mhz> and jsgotangco at 12 utc, edubuntu-devel  ;D
<jsgotangco> no one really uses this room at this time
<mhz> mruiz: jarufe: pasamos al siguiente punto ?
<mhz> jsgotangco: we know, hence we took advantage
<mhz> mruiz: jarufe: pasamos al siguiente punto ?
<mruiz> mhz: ok
<jarufe> vamos 
<mhz> = Organizacion del Wiki =
<mhz> El wiki por su naturaleza misma es "comunitario"
<mhz> no obstante, podemos establecer las normas minimas de esa colaboracion
<mhz> y la estructura del wiki
<mhz> jarufe: mruiz: para que necesitamos el wiki ?
<mruiz> creo que el wiki nos serve harto para la documentacin... comoc hablbamos el otro da es factible ocupar moin2docbook 
<jarufe> via de comunicacin ... muy importante ...   
<mruiz> nos permite coordinar fcilmente actividades
<mhz> mruiz: jarufe: yo opino lo mismo
<mhz> mruiz: jarufe: yo opino lo mismo, pero llevo mas de 2 anos trabajando con los devel de Moin wiki, por ende mi vision de como usarlo esta muy lejos de ser 'objetiva'
<mruiz> jajaja
<mhz> en consecuencia, podrian disenar una estructura (jpg, dia, etc) del sitio que cada uno se imagina y las nalizamos?
<mruiz> adems es un medio sencillo,ordenado
<mruiz> ok
<mhz> mruiz: cuando crees que la puedes tener?
<mhz> jarufe: ?
<mruiz> mhz: el viernes puede ser
<mhz> mruiz: perfecto
<mhz> jarufe: ?
<jarufe> okey .,.. 
<jarufe> yo me comprometo para el viernes ... 
<mhz> genial
<mruiz> :)
<mhz> =  Implementacion del Foro en ubuntu-cl.org =
<mruiz> pero es un modelo del wiki, o del sitio que queremos de ubuntu-cl?
<mhz> mruiz: usted tiene el baston
<mhz> mruiz: estructura de como deseas / imaginas que debieramos usar el wiki de ubuntu-cl
<mhz> secciones, 
<mhz> usos, etc
<mhz> es nuestro sitio y ese sitio usa Moin (para bien o mal)
<mhz> hagamos de el lo que mejor imaginemos
<mhz> mruiz: cachai, gallo?
<mhz> :D
<jarufe> wuajajaj xD
<mruiz> jarufe, mhz: respecto a los foros ... quisiera plantear una reestructuracin de los contenidos del foro; se han ido aadiendo foros de discusin a medida de la necesidad
<mruiz> adems tengo ideado "convocar" a los usuarios ms activos para esta tarea y designarlos como moderadores
* mhz se declara incompetente sobre foros.. los ha usado muy rara vez y solo para dar soporte
<mruiz> jarufe, que opinas?
* mhz deja en manos de jarufe Y mruiz todas esas decisiones y ayudara en lo que se le pida
<jarufe> revisando el foro un ajuste  de foros k estan muy vagos seria bueno ... 
<mhz> mruiz: me gusta la idea de convocar, y creoi que tendra estrecha relacion con el plan de difusion
<jarufe> para evitar las duplicidades de topic 
<mruiz> sip...
<mruiz> tcnicamente hablando, con phpBB2 nos ha sido bastante llevadera la administracin de los foros
<mhz> "ajustes"  que es eso para foros?
<mruiz> y lo mejor es que existe como paquete dentro de la distribucin, lo que significa un mayor nivel de seguridad 
<jarufe> seguiremos con phpbb2 
<jarufe> ?
<mruiz> creo que es una buena opcin... qu ms podra ser, jarufe?
<mhz> mruiz: jarufe: en todo caso, es muy importante que los acuerdos tecnicos (tecnologia a usar, secciones aincroporar, normas, estructura del wiki, etc) quede registrado siempre en el wiki. El Community Council se basa en gran medida para aceptar a un nuevo miembro en su colaboraciones de Foros, ML, wiki, bugs, y desarrollo
<mruiz> mhz: entonces debemos crear esas secciones...
<mhz> sip, yo tambien me ofrezco para la creacion de esas secciones, una vez acordemos despues del viernes, la estructura final inicial de l wiki
* jarufe jarufe partio de buscar el cargador ... su bateria esta en 1 % 
<mruiz> jarufe: corra compadre!
<mruiz> actualmente tengo un anlisis de estadsticas de acceso para los foros... va viento en popa...
<mruiz> lo pueden ver en http://ubuntu-cl.no-ip.org/cgi-bin/awstats.pl
<mruiz> el problema es que google y muchos sitios quedaron con informacin "amarrada" a www.ubuntu.cl
<mhz> mruiz: jarufe: siguiente punto?
<mhz> 1 ...
<mhz> 2 ...
<mhz> 3...
<mhz> 4...
<mhz> 5...
<mhz> =  Definicion de Equipos en Ubuntu-cl =
<mhz> Propongo que esos equipos sean definidos una vez tengamos listos los puntos anteriores
<mhz> No obstante, creo saludable comenzar a probarnos y conocernos en cuanto a responsabilidades
<mruiz> sip
<mhz> De momento, cualquier anomalia de una ML, Foro, wiki o cualquier canal oficial hosteado y entregado por el CC a cualquier LoCo team
<mhz> es responsabilidad de quien tenga myor rango/experiencia a la vista del CC
<mhz> en este caso, yo seria el primero que llamarian para pedir explicaciones
<mhz> hasta ahora, jamas me he mandado un condor
<mhz> o
<mhz> lo que es "my raro" 
<mhz> :D
<mruiz> que condoro, por ejemplo?
<mhz> pero jamas ha sido mi intencion hacerme cargo de todas las cosas
<mhz> condoro seria =  ser agresivo con algun visitante
<mhz> no cumplir al CoC
<mhz> ser cabron
<mhz> etc
<mhz> criticar directamente a alguien sin averiguar razones
<mhz> etc
<mhz> o sea, ser desatinado!
<mhz> En fin, de momento veo ciertos canales ya funcionando
<mhz> Foro, (que aun no logro comunicarme con henrik)
<mruiz> canales?
<mhz> Wiki y ML
<jarufe> entonces como queda definido el equipo ... 
<mhz> jarufe: mruiz: propongo, momentaneamente, a mruiz Mr. Foro, jarufe Mr. ML, mhz Mr. Wiki
<mruiz> jajaja sip
<mhz> y veamos como nos sentimos ahi, como nos relacionamos con las comunidades, etc
<mruiz> sabes, me preocupa el ML... cmo "revivirlo" ?
<mhz> obviamente, nos reportamos mutuamente y nos ayudamos siempre
<mhz> mruiz: esa es justamente una parte de Difusion
<mruiz> cuando apareci el foro, "todos" se fueron para all
<mhz> en un ML hay movimiento solo cuando suceden cosas
<mhz> mruiz: de nosotros depende que sucedan cosas
<jarufe> pero todo las todas de decisiones pueden ser establecido en el wiki, foro y ml ... 
<mruiz> :)
<mhz> jarufe: ?
<mhz> jarufe: si claro, pero cada encargado es responsable de gestionar el correcto funcionamiento de las tareas asignadas segun objetivos
<mhz> jarufe: manana pueden existir 10 decisiones en el wiki
<mhz> eso no significa quelas decisiones les saldran patitas y comenzaran a auto-gestionarse
<mhz> alguien debe hacerlas
<jarufe> en eso estamos claros 
<mruiz> creo que, por as decirlo, es bueno "replicar" la informacin... para que llegue a ms gente: no todos estn acostumbrados al foro, ML o Wiki
<jarufe> pero nos somos un equipo ? 
<jarufe> debemos comunicarnos ... 
<mruiz> claro
<mruiz> haber, haber, me perd....
<mruiz> jarufe: a que te refieres con la comunicacin?
<mhz> jarufe: ? cuando hemos dicho que no nos comunicariamos?
<jarufe> wait... 
<jarufe> es el tema k planteo ... 
<jarufe> referente llevemos de la mano las informacion en los 3 frentes
<mhz> aun no comprendo, con peras y manzanas, por fa ;)
<jarufe> yo digo k toda la informacion k se estableca en el wiki 
<jarufe> tambien la podemos comunicar en el foro y ML 
<jarufe> ahora si ?
<mruiz> ahhh
<mhz> ahhh, si poh!
<mruiz> yo dije lo mismo :D
<mhz> yo no, no tan claro
<mhz> jarufe: sip
<mhz> esa es la idea
<mhz> jarufe: mruiz: acuerdo en los equipos momentaneos?
<mruiz> sip
<jarufe> yep  
<mhz> Oh, falta un canal! IRC
<mhz> Seveas me pasara ubuntu-cl
<mruiz> :S
<mhz> registrado por alguien mas  en irc.freenode
<mruiz> quien?
<mhz> ni idea
<mhz> pero Seveas es el encargado
<mhz> asi que el se hace cargo de recuperarlo :D
<mhz> y nosotros de usarlo
<mhz> :D
<mhz> cuando exista ubuntu-cl para Chile, deberemos definir que uso le daremos
<mruiz> ok
<mhz> pero discutamoslo cuando suceda, les parece?
<jarufe> oka... .
<mhz> =  Traduccion del CoC =
<jarufe> un pregunta -- antes de continuar ...
<mhz> dale
<jarufe> mruiz, kien esta de adm del ML ?
<mruiz> mhz!
<jarufe> oka 
<jarufe> continuemos 
<mhz> jarufe: pero te dare acceso para que lo hagas tu mismo
<mhz> Mr. ML
<mhz> ;)
<jarufe> gracias mhz 
<mhz> de nada, maestro
<mhz> BTW, jarufe sabes lo que es admin una ML ?
<mhz> hasta hora es casi puro spam, pero ademas de eso, implicara mantener comunicacion con la ML, semanlmente, una vez que tengamos el plan
<mhz> = Traduccion del CoC =
<mruiz> wait
<jarufe> no he administrado ML ... solo portal y foro... pero jarufe ya esta gOOgleando 
<mhz> me encantaria traducirlo pero cada vez veo ma lejano hacerlo, al menos hasta Mayo :(
<mhz> jarufe: te logeas, decides que mails se van pa la casa, y cuales llegan a la lista
<mhz> todo mediante botones
<mruiz> :o
<mhz> super simple
<lguerra> perdon que me meta, sera que yo podria trabajar con ubuntu-cl, ?
<jarufe> si conozcco ciertas funciones de un adm ,.. 
<mhz> lguerra: en que sentido?
<jarufe> solo k no he metido las manos 
<lguerra> pues si, es que quiero hacer cosas y he hecho algunas, pero me estoy cansando de que -co no haga nada
<mhz> jarufe: ah, ok. pero ya sabes que estamos mruiz y yo para ayudarte cuando lo pidas
<mhz> lguerra: hehehe
<lguerra> entonces me gustaria involucrarme con un LoCo 
<jarufe> eso no es necesario mencionarlo 
<mhz> lguerra: lo lamento
<mruiz> lguerra: como va ubuntu-co??
<mhz> lguerra: de momento, en esta etapa super incial, no tengo idea, pero seguro que mas manos son bienvenidas
<lguerra> mruiz, solo visitalo y te das cuenta, 
<mhz> lguerra: quizas, si mruiz y jarufe estan de acuerdo, podrias ayudarnos con la revision del plan que disenaremos para el periodo abril -septiembre
* mruiz ya visit y vio el placeholder
<mhz> lguerra: si te refieres a #ubuntu-co
<mhz> yo hace raaaaaartoooooo mencione que era una locura dividir hispanoparlantes en IRC
<mruiz> mhz. jarufe: me parece buena idea que alguien "externo" revise la planificacin... como una auditora
<mhz> salvo que feuran para tareas super especificas
<lguerra> gustoso les colaboraria, y si desean puedo irme encargando de la traduccion del CoC
<mhz> lguerra: podrias revisar el Plan de Difusion que tendremos listo en 2 semanas y meientras traducir el CoC ?
<mruiz> encuentro ms oportuno que trabajemos en la importancia del CoC para la comunidad Ubuntu
<mhz> jarufe: mruiz: que opinan de eso para lguerra ?
<mruiz> mhz: no problem
<jarufe> yo no tengo ningun problema contar con lguerra 
<mhz> mruiz: claro, es importante definir la relevancia para la comunidad pero de momento es preciso traducirlo
<mruiz> mientras ms gente (comprometida) se una al barquito, mejor
<lguerra> sips, yo traduzco Coc y me avisan cuando este listo el plan de Difusion
<mhz> lguerra: entonces +1 al CoC +1 a la revision
<mruiz> adems es necesario explicar con peras y manzanas la importancia de las llaves gpg y su correcto uso
<lguerra> oks.
<mhz> lguerra: tienes 2 semanas para desde manana para el CoC
<mhz> mruiz: exacto
<mhz> pero no crees que eso sera tarea del Plan de Difusion?
<mhz> lguerra: gracias!
<lguerra> oks mhz espero tenerlo antes
<mhz> lguerra: lento pero seguro es mejor
<mhz> lguerra: recuerda que tambien se viene el Tour
<lguerra> una ultima pregunta, publico en ubuntu-cl el CoC traducido?
<mhz> lguerra: sip, todos tus vances ahi
<mhz> para suscribirnos y editar
<mhz> mruiz: jarufe: podriamos reunirnos el jueves para tratar el utlimo punto en agenda? yo podria resumilres todo en un mail y discurtimos el jueves?
<mruiz> vale, np
<mhz> jarufe: ?
<mruiz> buena primera reunion
<jarufe> pero debe ser despues de las 00:00 
<jarufe> esta semana estoy saliendo muy tarde 
<mhz> mruiz: sip, me quedo contento, pero creo que aun podemos ir algo un poco mas rapido
<mhz> jarufe: oops
<mruiz> claro... 
<mhz> 00:00 a las 00:45 ?
<jarufe> esa es la falta de trainners 
<jarufe> cada vez avanzaremos mas rapido 
<mhz> ah, claro
<mhz> mi primera reunion IRC fue aca mismo con edubuntu-devel
<mhz> en 65 minutos resolvieron sobre 7 temas!!!
<mhz> entre 6 perosnas que eramos en esa epoca
<mruiz> pero.."la prctica hace al maestro"; no te preocupes
<mhz> claro! no me preocupo, me siento re contento!
<mhz> jarufe: gracias por llegar
<mhz> mruiz: gracias por asisit tambien
<mhz> lguerra: muchas gracias por ayudarnos
<mhz> y para finalizar
<mruiz> mhz, lguerra , jarufe: gracias a uds
<lguerra> mhz, mruiz, jarufe  un placer poder colaborar en algo
<mhz> yo manana, despues de la reunion de edubuntu-devel
<mhz> enviare un amil a ustedes 4 con los acuerdos
<jarufe> me siento muy contentos amigos: mruiz mhz lguerra xD
<mhz> yo igual
<mruiz> jarufe: al fin avanzamos!
<mhz> confio en que tenemos herramientas y power suficiente
<jarufe> ooooohhhh si ... 
<jarufe> mruiz, te dije k teniamos k seguir al conejo blanco . 
<mhz> obviamente, la idea es que al menos nos reunamos cada 15 dias
<mhz> pero en esta etapa, propongo 1 vez por semana
<mruiz> jajaja... por el camino amarillo
<mhz> ?
* mhz no cachando
<mhz> ah, debe ser del problema del pasado?
* mruiz le deca a jarufe acerca de seguir el camino amarillo
<mruiz> claro
<mruiz> podra ser ms temprano la reunin?  pronto comienzan las clases :S
<mhz> por favor!
<mhz> :D
<mhz> o podriamos rotar horarios y asi todos felices?
<mruiz> buena idea...
<mruiz> que tal jarufe, lguerra?
<mhz> si somos 4, deberiamos proponer 4 horarios
<mhz> ideales para cada uno
<mhz> y asi, 1 vez por mes te toca tu ideal
<lguerra> uhmmm, yo solo tengo un unico problema, acabo de llegar de clases, 
<mhz> lol
* mhz empuja a lguerra 
<mhz> lguerra: cambiate de TZ!
<lguerra> jajajaja
<mhz> lguerra: aca son las 01:15 AM
<jarufe> el sistema de votacion de horarios alternativo me parece ideal 
<jarufe> dentro del wiki 
<mhz> ah, okis
<lguerra> para mi es facil cualquier horario menos el comprendido entre 18:00 UTC y 2:30 UTC
* jarufe debo crear un tunel ssh .. para salir desde mi work :)
<mhz> okey, revisemos ese tema hasta el viernes, donde volveremos a tener contacto via email para definir una pronta reunion estructural de wiki
<mruiz> ok
<mruiz> buenas noches amigos
<mhz> estamos ok con todo entonce? me puedo ir a la cama?
<mhz> buenas!
<jarufe> vamos a descanzar ... 
<mhz> y recuerden si pueden...
<mhz> 12 UTC
<mhz> edubuntu-devel
<mhz> aca mismo
<lguerra> aca estare
<mhz> 09:00 AM Chile
<mhz> Nos belmont!
<lguerra> 07:00 AM Colombia
<mruiz> chaoo
<jarufe> aloja 
<lguerra> Chao
<mruiz> +
<JaneW> 2 mins to Edubuntu dev Update Meeting
<highvoltage> Hi everyone
<JaneW> hello, are we all here?
<pips1> hi
<JaneW> hispacey, jelkner, pips1, mhz, highvoltage
<JaneW> is ogra here?
<jelkner> hi Jane!
<JaneW> we are waiting on flint, jsgotangco, kjcole ...
<JaneW> Can we try to keep focused and on topic today please?
<JaneW> Else we just ramble for 2+ hours 
<highvoltage> JaneW: yes, is there an agenda?
<JaneW> jelkner: do you have time constrainst today?
<jelkner> yes, i'm getting ready to leave for PyCon, and i was out yesterday
<JaneW> nless otherwise stated the meeting agenda is as follows:
<JaneW>     *
<JaneW>       Technical
<JaneW>           o
<JaneW>             Progress over past week
<JaneW>           o
<JaneW>             Issues/ Blocks
<JaneW>           o
<JaneW>             Planned Activities for coming week
<JaneW>     *
<JaneW>       Documentation
<JaneW>           o
<JaneW>             Progress over past week
<JaneW>           o
<JaneW>             Issues/ Blocks
<JaneW>           o
<JaneW>             Planned Activities for coming week
<JaneW>     *
<JaneW>       Art Work
<JaneW>           o
<JaneW>             Progress over past week
<JaneW>           o
<JaneW>             Issues/ Blocks
<JaneW>           o
<JaneW>             Planned Activities for coming week
<JaneW>     *
<JaneW>       Management and/or Community - any further issues that need to be discussed. These may be tabled in advance as required.
<JaneW> would anyone like to table any specific items for today which deviate from the above?
* ogra waves
<JaneW> If anything needs a lengthy discussion we'll schedule a sep time for it, as we eventually did last week for the Drupal/Moin decision
<JaneW> hi ogra
<JaneW> jelkner: can we let ogra go first?
<jelkner> sure
<highvoltage> JaneW: yes, let him loose please
<JaneW> great, I prefer it that way :)
<JaneW> ogra: HIT IT
<ogra> i have not much to say, the final work on the goals is done, flight4 is out ....
<JaneW> w00t!
<highvoltage> ogra++
<pips1> clap clap
<JaneW> ogra: are all your goals implemented fully?
<JaneW> besides the deferred ones of course
<mhz> _o/ \o/ !!
<JaneW> argh, I am getting oops's in LP so can't check
<ogra> JaneW, nope , we decided to defer the nbd (swap over network) part for dapper+1 since the change we want is to intrusive
<highvoltage> oh no :(
<flint> oh it is early...
<ogra> so thin-client-memory-usage will only be partially implemented... but i'll put up a doc how to set it up manually, its very easy
<JaneW> ogra: screensaver default images - that's still pending images right - but it's not edubuntu specific...
<highvoltage> that was my favourite dapper ltsp feature
<highvoltage> ogra: so swap over nbd can still be done manually?
<JaneW> ogra: so it's as done as it;s going to be then? t-c-m-u..?
<ogra> JaneW, 3/4 is implemented, i need to create an empty package in ubuntu-artwork for it... then its technically done 
<ogra> (screensaver-default-image)
<ogra> JaneW, yup... there will only be fixes i'll merge from the debian guys now ...
<ogra> the rest is implemented ... 
<JaneW> ogra: is mdz aware of/happy with that?
<highvoltage> ogra: apart from the swap-nbd question, how much RAM does a thin client currently use? i haven't had a chance to check yet.
<ogra> i think so ...
<JaneW> ogra: cool
<ogra> he told me not to do the nbd stuff anymore ... 
<JaneW> ogra: well done! You are well within the deadlines this time :))
<JaneW> ogra: is there more to squeeze in before FF?
<ogra> since what we want is a totally automatic swapserver ... and thats not achievable in time
<flint> morning jonathan, ollie at this stage can we still reset the default file in firefox?  btw I missed. what is nbd?
<ogra> only fixes on the artwork package and one fix on gnome-settings-daemon is pending
<highvoltage> ogra: the content filtering, enyc asked about that this morning, so i told him you were thinking of privoxy at some point. did you go with that, or something else?
<ogra> highvoltage, willow
<spacey> hi
<highvoltage> flint: morning
<JaneW> highvoltage: we have someone willing to pay $100 for 'aprental control' pref dans guardian
<highvoltage> ogra: this one?
<JaneW> highvoltage: ogra likes willow for Dapper+1
<ogra> highvoltage, http://www.digitallumber.com/software/willow/
<highvoltage> ogra: i was just about to post that link, thanks
<ogra> it works with very low maintenance 
<JaneW> sorry aprental=parental
<highvoltage> nice. low maintenance++
<ogra> but you can also do very fine grained stuff with it ...
<JaneW> ogra: what do you still need before edubuntu 6.04 is DONE?
<highvoltage> how does it work, with a web interface?
<JaneW> ogra: TESTING and bug filing...
<ogra> JaneW, exactly ...
<spacey> willow works great
<spacey> have it few months in production now
<JaneW> ogra: the 3 x artwork selections for the 3 themes
<flint> willow looks interesting!
<ogra> a wee for nbd would be great ... i'd really have loved to get it in ... but well ...
<JaneW> ogra: the screensaver images
<ogra> *week
<spacey> ogra: can't get it packaged in universe/multiverse?
<flint> ollie what is nbd? 
<ogra> spacey, tomorrow is feature freeze ...
<JaneW> ogra: don;t fight mdz on it, but if it can be done safely we should
<ogra> flint, an easy way to setup swap over network 
<spacey> so1  day left?
<spacey> :p
<flint> ok
<JaneW> ogra: what time is FF at midnight in LA tomorrow night?
<ogra> flint, the current problem is that you need to create a swapfile before you can use it ...
<ogra> JaneW, no idea ... but i hope so :)
<flint> gotcha...this is the workstation blues...
<highvoltage> ogra: the way that ltsp.org creates swapfiles, is that too crude?
<JaneW> ogra: actually it will probably be around the time of our meeting
<ogra> flint, and i'm working on a patch that creates it automatically, so you can run the daemon via inetd and just get swapspace on demand
<JaneW> ogra: we'll know what's made it and what hasn;t by then, and mdz will probably make selective exceptions then too
<JaneW> ogra: the meeting is at 20:00UTC tomorrow
<ogra> highvoltage, the fix needs to be done in nbd-daemon to get it right... nit with wrapper scripts
<ogra> ah, fine ...
<highvoltage> ogra: ok
<flint> JaneW, the one thing I want to know is can you reset the firefox default page on the install cd?
<ogra> flint, reset ?
<ogra> how ?
<flint> set it to something else rather than what it is.
<ogra> what is it ? i have no fresh install handy
<ogra> i thought it was the current edubuntu intro page ...
<flint> the standard ubuntu page
<ogra> hmm, sure ? 
<flint> which comes in as a file
<ogra> nope, as an alternative ...
<JaneW> ogra: wasn;t there a translation issue with having the edubuntu page last time?
<flint> I am thinking that there may be a more useful page for an educator, or possibily links to other files in the edubuntu documentation on that page.
<ogra> i'll look if there is anything wrong in the artwork package with the set alternative stuff
<flint> ogra, ollie could you reset the base url as part of an artwork shift?
<ogra> you mean matching the selected age of the theme ? 
<flint> ogra, the more I play with the prototypes the more I realize that the key to getting good information about operation of edubuntu is the browser default
<flint> this is where i believe a teacher will start to look for guidance
<ogra> flint, but thats also the page you see every browerstart ...
<mhz> JaneW: what do you mean by "JaneW ogra: wasn;t there a translation issue" ?
<flint> thus it is at this point that the documentation display processneeds to begin...
<highvoltage> ogra: local device support, is that also affected by the nbd problem?
<ogra> oh, JaneW one issue ... i'm waiting for the schooltool guys to finish theor new package ... the old one wont work with our zope ...
<flint> ogra, that is fine, I can live with links off the base "ubuntu" page, but you gotta admit that having an ubuntu page default in edubuntu is a bit odd and confusing...
<JaneW> mhz: afair we finished the about edubuntu page late and didn't have the required translations...
<JaneW> ogra: oic, when is it due?
<mhz> JaneW: translations as in "other languages" ?
<JaneW> mhz: yes, install languages
<ogra> its currntly not on the CD ... brian promised me a package before 23rd ... but it doesnt look good ... i'll talk to mdz later today
<JaneW> ogra: oh dear, what's the likely outcome?
<ogra> i know sabdfl has interest in getting the latest schooltool in
<flint> ogra, does this have to do with the zope2 verses zope3 thing?
<JaneW> ogra: does it look like we won;t have schooltool again?
<ogra> so matt wont object i guess
<mhz> JaneW: lguerra (in here, helping ubuntu-cl and edubuntu-es) can help us with translations into spanish if still neded
<ogra> again ?
<JaneW> I do think sabdfl would try to get it in
<flint> JaneW, you gott have schooltool
<JaneW> flint: we want schooltool - but it needs to be ready in our scheduled timeframe...
<flint> ogra, they have like a "runtime" where they include their silly zope3 as a package.
<flint> ogra, what did Tom Hoffman say about schooltool?
<ogra> flint, not feasable for us
<jelkner> JaneW: I need to run.  Kevin and I will give an update on the cookbook next week.
<mhz> JaneW: ohhhm you mean, "late" so there will be no translations ?
<JaneW> jelkner: how's it looking?
<jelkner> we are dealing with hardware now
<JaneW> jelkner: mail the list the mean time or we can schedule a sep discussion?
<jelkner> setting up a lab so we can take screen shots extra
<JaneW> jelkner: how about tomorrow?
<JaneW> jelkner: that would be great :)
<jelkner> i'm leaving for PyCon
<jsgotangco> ohhh PyCon
<jelkner> see you all next week
<JaneW> jelkner: can screenshots be sent to you, I am sure some other would be happy to scrape the for you...
<JaneW> jelkner: enjoy
<jelkner> thanks
<pips1> what is the status on teacher tool? (sorry for not being up to date)
* JaneW really hopes we are going to have a Cook Book *holding thumbs*
<JaneW> jsgotangco: we are just moving onto docs now, good timing
<ogra> pips1, no new status, student-control-panel is packaged, does one basic function and still needs love
<mhz> JaneW: jsgotangco and I have some advances
<jsgotangco> oh cool
<highvoltage> ogra: local device support, is that also affected by the nbd problem?
* jsgotangco just had 3 bottles
<ogra> highvoltage, not really ...
<JaneW> ogra:  what happened with Linus's tool, he never responded to my message...
<highvoltage> ogra: so there will be some kind of local dev support?
<ogra> highvoltage, even i'm willing to do some testing with nbd ...
<highvoltage> cool. and local app support?
<mhz> jsgotangco: is this ok https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation/EdubuntuQuickguide/RoadMap
<ogra> JaneW, no license, not package ... he didnt answer on several requests
<jsgotangco> checking
<ogra> s/not/no/
* jsgotangco kicks x-chat gnome
<JaneW> highvoltage: local device support is defefferd sadly
<highvoltage> ok.
<flint> ogra, could local storage and multimedia at the workstation relate?
<JaneW> ogra: pity
<jsgotangco> wow
<jsgotangco> tick marks!
<mhz> jsgotangco: sure, (./)
<JaneW> mhz: cool page :)
<flint> ogra, I have been doing some work and have concluded that they do.
<ogra> highvoltage, i want it completely implemented in dapper+1 .... but for dapper the user needs to use the scripts from ltsp.org and ltspfs/ltspfsd from universe
<jsgotangco> errr
<jsgotangco> the question is
* jsgotangco keeps silent first and let others talk
<mhz> JaneW: thx
<flint> ogra, how documented (or not) are the ltsp scripts?
<ogra> flint, not yet
<Yagisan> ogra: we have a howto for that ?
<JaneW> mhz: jsgotangco would be able to tell you more about the translation issue from last time - I didn't really understand it myself.
<ogra> i'll do a big documentation run on the wiki before release
<flint> ogra, ollie do you think i can get them running in a lab environment?
<mhz> JaneW: okis, i'll talk to him and lguerra at the end of meeting
<JaneW> ogra: do you know when you'll have a chance to look at that? I think the more time we give the doc guys to polish the better...
<ogra> flint, try it out ... search for ltspfs on the ltsp.org wiki ... there are howtos and scripts
<mhz> ogra: sorry, "documentation run" ?
<ogra> JaneW, as soon as i'm not allowed to code anymore ;)
* mhz is scared to run ;)
<jsgotangco> hold one gimme a minute i gotta go downsstairs
<ogra> read: after feature freeze :)
<flint> mhz, nice doc page.  I would like to get together with you about a documentation hack I kinda have in mind...
<JaneW> did everybody see what the outcome of the Drupal/Moin decision was? We are going with Drupal.
<Yagisan> mhz: he means update and check documentation
<JaneW> ogra: heh, ok fair enough :)
<JaneW> ogra: at 'pens down'
<ogra> :)
<mhz> flint: okis, let's discuss it with jsgotangco and see if we can do it
<mhz> Yagisan: oh, hi there. Got it thx
<mhz> JaneW: yeah, I saw it :( snif, but ok
<Yagisan> mhz: srry - was late @ work
<flint> highvoltage, regarding documentation, I actually proofread every one of the 150 pages of the original tuxlab doc.  It is not a bad piece of work.
<flint> ogra, is the original tuxlab doc on the distro somewhere?
<ogra> nop
<flint> ogra, the damn thing is not that big.
<mhz> flint: highvoltage: it is an excellent piece of work
<highvoltage> mhz: flint: wow. thanks!
<flint> JaneW, the hack is that we spruce up jonathan's prose, and stick in on the distro in html with a link off the default firefox page...
<JaneW> flint: it;s on the wiki
<pips1> how are general ubuntu features that are important to a school lab with edubuntu doing? e.g. 
<highvoltage> i wanted to talk about that
<pips1> network-authentication
<flint> JaneW, that is not as good for the user as having it when they need it, at install time when the net is not working.
<highvoltage> what's the chance that we can have some links at the top of that html page?
<JaneW> flint: after the amount of time that has been spent on turning into an Edubuntu cookbook it seems silly to go back to the original a third time...
<ogra> pips1, deferred
<highvoltage> there's no links to the local schooltool installation, currently.
<pips1> network-magic
<pips1> ?
<jsgotangco> :D
<highvoltage> can we have it in FF as bookmarks at least or something?
<pips1> ogra, oh, that's a shame, that was one of my favorites
<ogra> pips1, partially included (network-manager is on the CD but not preinstalled)
<jsgotangco> mhz: i'm already done with screenshots
<JaneW> highvoltage: yes I think we should have some relevant book marks
<ogra> highvoltage++
<flint> JaneW, the tuxlab stuff was never on the distro.  if it could fit, i say put it up, Kevin Cole, what do you think?
<mhz> jsgotangco: yup, I remember you mentioned that to me, hence it is already ticked ;)
<JaneW> kevin is not here
* jsgotangco thumbs down
<highvoltage> ogra: what did I do to deserve that? :)
<JaneW> flint: we always wanted to customise the cookbook first
<ogra> highvoltage, schooltoll links :)
<jsgotangco> mhz: can we work on the TOC and layout later if you're not doing anything after this
<flint> JaneW, you are facing a deadline... the cooks cannot make.
<highvoltage> ah
<mhz> flint: +1
<JaneW> flint: have they said so? They haven't told me they can't make it...
<mhz> JaneW: at least as a "complementary alternative"
<jsgotangco> i don't think they can make it
<JaneW> flint: plus I have asked them for weeks and wekks to aim for 'good enough' as a base
<spacey> whats the deadline?
<flint> JaneW, this should not be that hard a command decision.  The deadline is tomorrow, they are on their way to Pycon.
<JaneW> we can always improve on something that's done
<ogra> spacey, documentation freeze
<spacey> thats not tomorrow right
<ogra> yup
<highvoltage> JaneW: well said
<jsgotangco> tommorow is feature freeze
<JaneW> flint: FEATURE FREEZE is tomorrow
<mhz> jsgotangco: I am going to the doctor and then I have 3 meetings. I'll be home tonite at 01:00 UTC
* jsgotangco remembers to rush something
<flint> fair enough when is doc freeze?
<jsgotangco> mhz: ok i
<JaneW> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseSchedule
<jsgotangco> mhz: ok i'll chug something in the wiki
<mhz> jsgotangco: but, yes, i guess it is time we meet again
<JaneW>  March 23rd
<JaneW> 	DocumentationStringFreeze 
<JaneW> 1 month
<jsgotangco> i'll finish my g-a-i stuff first won't take a lot
<mhz> jsgotangco: and yes, I can spend 10 munites for a quick meeting after this one
<highvoltage> g-a-i?
<flint> JaneW, fair enough, march 23rd.  they can make it by then.
<ogra> highvoltage, the last item in your menu ;)
<spacey> cookbook is not really documenationstring
<JaneW> flint: exactly
<ogra> gnome-app-install
<highvoltage> aaaaah
<JaneW> we have been trying to get the Cookbook going since July August last year...
<flint> JaneW, what I really want is that the documentation be on the CD and be linked at the default firefox page so you do not have to look for it.
<JaneW> to me first goal is to get the damn thing DONE, and then we can decide what to do with it
<flint> JaneW, elkner and the boys only got involved in November 2006.
<JaneW> flint: that would be nice yes
<pips1> what are the educational applications that are running on the server by default? schooltool? moodle?
<jsgotangco> lol that's like hmmm 10 months to go
<JaneW> flint: I am not directing my anger at them at all. jsgotangco tried valiantly before that...
<ogra> schooltool only ...
<highvoltage> pips1: you mean the web based stuff?
<pips1> highvoltage, yes
<flint> ogra, ollie, jane said the link off the firefox default page would be nice, is it possible?
<ogra> moodle never went to main ...
<jsgotangco> i was the only guy who started it and i did good progress i'd say :P
<pips1> ogra, i see
<flint> JaneW, you really look beautiful when you are angry :^)
<JaneW> flint: thing is we could point to it from the wiki in the about docs if necessary
<ogra> i also excluded postgresql from the default install, i notices users tend to prefer mysql ... so its up to them to choose
<highvoltage> flint: with words like thay, you'll just make her more beautiful :)
<flint> JaneW, you look truly radiant when you are bitter...
<JaneW> jsgotangco: indeed, plus you did the other docs so I am grateful
<flint> :^)
<jsgotangco> hmm new kernel
<flint> JaneW, what I am after is that the docs be available even if you do not have connectivity.
<pips1> ogra, so what non-web non-ltsp servers are runnung by default?
<pips1> mysql ... and ...?
<ogra> samba ... 
<ogra> no mysql
<pips1> ah
<pips1> ok
<highvoltage> samba runs by default?
* highvoltage didn't know that
<ogra> no database preinstalled, as i said above
<ogra> highvoltage, yes, but also with the default locked down config ...
<flint> ogra, samba is cool, lets not forget that you are running nfs by gosh!
<JaneW> flint: agreed, but once again it is a timing thing, the sooner we get a product, the more we can do with it. If we can get a simple doc out as a first draft that would be great. We can add more graphics and better pics of RS etc etc afterwards...
<ogra> flint, samba is for windows integration ...
<Yagisan> pips1: also tftp, dhcp
<highvoltage> oh, btw
<flint> JaneW, I want to motivate the boys by saying that "here is the hole your stuff must fill by 3/23"
<ogra> Yagisan, yes, the ltsp dedicated things
<flint> ogra, na, windows is just a passing fad, it will never catch on... :^)
<Yagisan> ogra: of course. I just try to be complete
<JaneW> I think questions are how large will it bem and how much space do we have available?
<spacey> oh btw, should the cookbook actually explain how things work or just say like click here and there 
<spacey> ?
<flint> ogra, it is fine as homage to the past however :^)
<pips1> Yagisan, ogran, thanks for your infos :-)
<pips1> groa 
<pips1> ogra
<pips1> sorry :-)
<flint> pips1, you forgot arog...
<pips1> hehe
<ogra> hehe
<jsgotangco> spacey: the orginal cookbook used LTSP with an RH distro i believe
<jsgotangco> i might be wrong
<jsgotangco> its been a while since i read it
<flint> pips1, you should have seen what I did to jonathan's name... :^)
<spacey> yeah but how much explaination should it give
<pips1> flint, missed that :-(
<Yagisan> jsgotangco: IIRC you are correct
<jsgotangco> and our LTSP is designed differently 
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: the original cookbook used K12-LTSP, then Ubuntu + LTSP.org
<jsgotangco> there
* jsgotangco forgot about K12
<flint> spacey, if you are referring to the default documentation page in firefox, it should be a default whale of documentation.
<spacey> flint: i'm not
<flint> highvoltage, how big was the tuxlab doc in html?  maybe 3 megs with the damn pictures (absolutely optional btw)
<spacey> i'm just asking in which way the cookbook should be written. Like we have these services which do.. etc. or just say the commands to enter/what to click.
<highvoltage> flint: something like that. and a lot of those pics aren't needed, anyway
<highvoltage> (like the RMS or Linus ones)
<flint> spacey, I am less concerned witht he content right now and more concerned with where the user finds it.
<highvoltage> spacey: in my experience it helps to keep things as simple as possible in docs
<flint> ogra, you got a spare 5 megs on the install?
<jsgotangco> meh
<spacey> well i think there should at least be enough information to understand what your doing a bit, and the pieces fall together (possibly)
<flint> highvoltage, jonathan your words made the tuxlab book.  be proud.
<ogra> flint, not sure ... we're pretty much out of space, as always
<flint> highvoltage, the fact that you did not date the artist is a mystery best left to history. :^)
* highvoltage be's proud
<flint> ogra, aw ollie just a few megs?
<highvoltage> flint: perhaps she dated someone else at TSF at that stage ;)
<highvoltage> for just text without images it should be less than 300k
<flint> highvoltage, gotta get you out of the computer room more often...
<ogra> flint, i cant tell unless i tried ... i need to make a edubuntu-docs package anyway today ...
<highvoltage> ogra: may i help there?
<JaneW> ** 5 mins
<flint> ogra, what should i do send you a slimmed down tuxlab so you can see if you can fit it in?
<highvoltage> ogra: i'm getting the hang of .deb packages. it seems it's easier than I always made it out to be.
<ogra> highvoltage, its 3 commands and editing a few lines in the rules file to make an empty package, not really exciting :)
<Yagisan> flint: sure, we'll just dump, um - how about edubuntu-desktop for space ? seriously it can't fit.
<flint> JaneW, let jonathan send a debian, could ollie link it to the default url for firefox?
<JaneW> flint: are you in contact with kjcole and jelkner atm?
<flint> Yagisan, harsh, but we could just go to icewm or dsl :^)
<ogra> flint, i'm not yet sure if i like the idea to ship tuxlabs ltsp 4.1 documentation ... some stuff will break heavily if you use it
<JaneW> flint: we *need* to know if/when they are going to be able to finish - else we'll need to look at considering a Plan B option
<flint> JaneW, the position here is that this represents the "box" their documentation must fit in if it is to be clickable from the default firefox page.
<JaneW> flint: I am still hoping they can pull it off, since they had good ideas and invested a lot in it
<highvoltage> ogra: can i still do it!
<ogra> flint, but jsgotangco has the start of a quickguide and we have still 4 weeks ... so that might be finishable in time ...
<flint> JaneW, if (wnen) they do then their deathless prose replace the tuxlab book. and get the default click off of firefox.
<JaneW> flint: I don't see the point, we were looking at possibly printing the book and making it a .pdf etc etc, so why is this suddenly a concern?
<flint> JaneW, the book part is fine.  while playing with edubuntu in the lab I noticed that if you have no network connectivity you have no easy access to any guidance, which is when you need it.
<flint> JaneW, jonathan does a serviceable job of a network troubleshooting guide in the tuxlab book.
<ogra> flint, if we ship such a link in edubuntu, we must make sure the webpage is there the next 5 years ....
<ogra> at least in dapper ...
<flint> JaneW, maybe these are two separate documentation pieces, i do not know...
<JaneW> ogra: 3
<mhz> ogra: ooooh, good point (5 years!)
<ogra> JaneW, classroom*server*
<highvoltage> yes, so no switching from drupal for the next 5 years!
<flint> ogra, exactly.  this is internal get it running documentation for the server and workstation install.
<JaneW> ogra: ah, yes good point
<JaneW> highvoltage: heh
<flint> highvoltage, jonathan this is a simple html page clickable from firefox.  i care not for the moin drupal issue in this case.
<mhz> highvoltage: 5 years too?
<mhz> :(
<mhz> :D
<pips1> highvoltage, had to laugh about that!
<flint> ogra, how much space for onboard documentation?
<ogra> flint, see above
<JaneW> ok our time is up
<jsgotangco> cool
<JaneW> meeting over
<flint> ogra, it is not a web page, it is just html that loads as a default.. 
<jsgotangco> ciao
* JaneW prays please can we have a cookbook ready in time
<flint> JaneW, thanks for the excellent meeting. 
<JaneW> OM
<flint> ogra, you going back to #edubuntu?
<ogra> i'm always in #edubuntu :)
<pips1> see you at #edubuntu
<flint> ogra, i do not get what you mean by "classroom*server*" just want clarification.
<ogra> flint, 5 years support instead of 3
<flint> ogra, so what you are saying is that anything on that disk has to stand the test of five years of technical change.   That is a long damn time.
<ogra> yes
<flint> ogra, this is why the whole moin-moin / drupal thing is not a fight I have a dog in.  Who knows who the winner of this would be.
<mhz> Thx guys for a lovely meeting
<jsgotangco> yes really productive
<jsgotangco> we should have more of this stuff next week
* mhz goes back to #edubuntu for 10 minutes
<flint> I believe that in the Lifecycle you are contemplating HTML ver 1 will still be readable.  
<pips1> flint, xhtml1-strict should be, too 
<pips1> flint, I was missing you in our shoot out session ;-) 
<lguerra> Hi, someone can tell me were i read logs to Edubuntu meeting at this morning? in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ not appear this
<ogra> lguerra, http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/
<lguerra> ogra, tks
<Riddell> shall we have a kubuntu meeting?
<Lure> sure
<Riddell> all iteams on agenda are from Hobbsee, but she's not here
<jpatrick> damn timezones
<Pygi> ah well :P
<[Nirvana] > jpatrick: there was that link on the meeting page though... still... I had to rush home from school (it's starts at 3 EST)
<apachelogger> very quite for a meeting?!
<Nirvana> we're not all here
<jpatrick> where's raphink ?
<Riddell> 20:01 < Riddell> all iteams on agenda are from Hobbsee, but she's not here
<Riddell> so if anyone has any other business, go ahead
<raphink> oh thanks for poking me jpatrick 
<raphink> :)
<jpatrick> you said you wanted to talk before FF
<raphink> jpatrick: yeah, but I think it was mostly about allee's and Tonio's stuff
<raphink> it seems tonio is not here tonight though
<raphink> I'll try to call him
<Riddell> we have moodin and keep in, I'll be reviewing Tonio's kubuntu-default-settings tomorrow and uploading
<jpatrick> probably got cut off again
<jpatrick> what about knemo?
<Riddell> I'll look at that tomorrow along with kubuntu-default-settings
<Riddell> i.e. does it work out of the box
<apachelogger> jpatrick: you think his isp tries to stop kubuntu's progress?
<Lure> what about font DPI and reduced font sizes?
<allee> kubuntu-default-settings miss a entry so one gets not prompted to create an index (does not work due to htdig missing)
<Riddell> Lure: I'll be reducing the font sizes along with  kubuntu-default-settings tomorrow :)
<Riddell> allee: interesting point
<Lure> Riddell: just KDE defaults or also individual apps (Konsole, Konversation...)?
<Riddell> Lure: kde font sizes affect all apps
<Lure> most, not all - quite some apps have own font setting 
<Lure> for example, Konversation is at 11pt
<jpatrick> in the chat window?
<Riddell> Lure: 11 is the current default (in kdeglobals)
<allee> Lure: konversation adapts to kde defaults 
<Lure> OK, then fine - I know when I wanted to reduce defaults, I had to change quite some manually
<allee> Btw. is the tabs at top of konversation and konsole set in stone?  Did anyone from usability comment on pro/con of it
<[Nirvana] > I know I proposed this last meeting, but is it still all right to debate the regeneration of K menu on KDE upgrade issue?
<[Nirvana] > * I was at a school meeting if anyone was wondering *
<Riddell> allee: it's not set in stone, but I think anyone can argue either way and be quite valid, it's mostly personal preference 
<allee> Big plus of down is that 'interesteing things in konsole, konversation is happening at the buttom.  So having tabs there reduces need to move mouse/eyes
<Riddell> [Nirvana] : what's the issue
<[Nirvana] > can I C/P it from what I wrote?
<Lure> I would agreed with allee - similar for Kopete (as it will be tabbed by default now)
<Riddell> [Nirvana] : sure
<[Nirvana] > it's the third bullet on this page (under Agenda): https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kubuntu/Meetings/16-02-06
<allee> This is different form e.g. konqueror where there is not prefered location in a web page/ file listing.  So better keep tabs at top, next to the other action ake toolbars and menus
<Riddell> allee: exacely, and the argument the other way is consistency with konqueror
<allee> allee: I argue that those are two different kinds of apps that deserve a different layout
<[Nirvana] > also, what was the posistion on the klickibunti idea?
<Riddell> [Nirvana] : you'll have to tell us what the "cool Settings feature under Actions" is
<allee> Riddell: I agree consistency is very important, but work flow  and the way you use apps is it too
<Riddell> [Nirvana] : ask amu about klickibunti, I think he just needs someone to code it (put a web wrapper on his scripts) and test it
<[Nirvana] > Riddell: One sec, will post screenie
<[Nirvana] > I only have what it looks like now... not a before/after screenie btw :(
<[Nirvana] > OK, screenie: http://img211.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kmenu9nw.png
<[Nirvana] > Settings, and System Menu are NOT there when you upgrade from 3.4 to 3.5(.1)
<[Nirvana] > what I did was delete all kde settings and re-install kubuntu-desktop (with 3.5.1) 
<Riddell> [Nirvana] : those were deliberately removed to avoid duplication
<Riddell> I can't remember how they were removed, might have been a patch to kicker, else a settings in kubuntu-default-settings
<Riddell> but Settings is already in System Settings or KControl and System Menu is on kicker by default
<[Nirvana] > ahh, I just thought it was easier to use this way, in my opinion
<Riddell> might be the Extensions= option in /usr/share/kubuntu-default-settings/kde-profile/default/share/config/kickerrc
<Riddell> yes, it is
<Riddell> any other business?
<Riddell> groovy, I'll go and do the dishes then
<[Nirvana] > hehe
* [Nirvana]  has no idea what's going on ^^
<raphink> sorry I was on the phone with tonio
<raphink> he can't make it this time either but has two things to say
<jpatrick> Riddell's gone....
<jpatrick> but fire away!
<raphink> jpatrick: so where are we now? or is the meeting over already?
<jpatrick> well, he went to do the dishes
<raphink> hmm ok
<raphink> is there actually a meeting? Like is there someone taking notes to make a report and so on?
<raphink> hmmpf doesn't seem so
<jpatrick> what did he have to say?
<raphink> ok well two things
<[Nirvana] > spit it out raphink!!! lol :P
<raphink> the first one is about the default graphic program in KDE
<raphink> right now we have krita as default
<jpatrick> oh goodie
<raphink> krita is very complex, although complete too
<raphink> most people don't want to use krita for basic stuff
<[Nirvana] > krita is hard to use
<raphink> koloupaint is much more simple
<raphink> easier to use 
<raphink> kolourpaint sorry
<raphink> and kolourpaint is already in main
<raphink> so it might be a good idea to have it as default instead of krita
<jpatrick> but Krita's like Photoshop
<raphink> so most users don't have to figure out about layers and so on
<raphink> when they only want to draw a square or a circle
<raphink> graphic designers can install krita, but most users don't want it
* Riddell back
<allee> raphink: when/where is krita (as default) called automaticly?
<raphink> allee: ?
<raphink> allee: I'm not talking for myself, but reporting for Tonio since he couldn't make it, so I'm not prepared to questions ;)
<allee> raphink: other way round.  What do you mean with default
<Riddell> krita is there to match gimp in ubuntu
<raphink> allee: krita is installed in the default profile it seems
<[Nirvana] > true, there was another one, on DSLinux... like xpaint or something, he gave it good praises (and he doesn't even know that his computer is running linux, I told him it was Win95, because it is an intell 166)
<Riddell> krita in SVN is looking really nice in terms of usability improvements
<raphink> Riddell: yes, and we believe this is not what it should be, unless our users are graphic designers
<raphink> Riddell: the point is that most basic users want to draw circles and squares
<raphink> not having to deal with layers, filters, etc.
<Riddell> then use openoffice
<allee> ahh, kolourpaint is not in kubuntu-desktop.  
<raphink> open-office is too heavy for simple stuff
<raphink> allee: yes that's it
<allee> yes, rest of the familie used kolourpaint
<Lure> raphink: so suggestion is to replace krita or to add kolourpaint?
<raphink> so that's Tonio's proposal to have kolourpaint installed by default
<allee> so depending on target audience  kolourpaint is too less, or krita too much
<raphink> Lure: yes, either
<Lure> I think Krita should be installed by default as it is great app
<Lure> but dummy paint is also fine with me ;-)
<raphink> some might complain about redondance
<raphink> but I don't think krita and kolourpaint are redundant
<raphink> they don't really do the same thing
<allee> if krita or kolourpoint depends on audience. the are not the same
<raphink> yes
<raphink> so what are opinions ?
<raphink> 1) keep it with krita only 
<raphink> 2) replace krita with kolourpaint
<raphink> or 
<raphink> 3) get both 
<raphink> what do you think?
<Riddell> 1
<[Nirvana] > Maybe they can both be packaged. Kolourpaint can be dubbed "basic image manipulation program" or "basic image editor" so users will know the difference.
<jpatrick> 1++
<raphink> 3
<Lure> 1 (personally), but also fine with 3
<[Nirvana] > 3
<allee> 3) -- because we should serve both  newbies and experts
<Riddell> 3 is not an option, that's against the whole single CD idea
<raphink> Riddell: ok
<raphink> then I'm for 2
<raphink> if 3 is no option
<allee> Riddell: then whom do we want to serve first?  newbies or exports?
<[Nirvana] > 2 for me too, though 3 would be a blessing
<allee> experts know now to install stuff,  newbies don't
<Riddell> as I say krita is improving well in terms of usability (although that won't be in dapper)
<raphink> allee: with the single CD, I want to serve newbies for sure
<allee> so then my vote would be 2) only add kolourpaint
<raphink> Riddell: a program that has layers, filters and such is not suitable for any newbie imo, however easy to use it claims to be
<allee> s/add/deliver Kolourpoint/
<raphink> I don't want my mom, sister of girlfriend to both about technical design stuff
<raphink> s/both/bother/
<allee> + kids
<raphink> allee: hehe yes
<raphink> so ok let's remove 3) since ti's not an option
<raphink> so 
<raphink> 1) keep only krita
<toma_> does ubuntu ship gimp by default?
<raphink> 2) get only kolourpaint
<raphink> I vote 2
<Riddell> toma_: yes (although it's the first thing to remove on space constraints)
<raphink> toma_: I'm nto sure actually
<raphink> I remember having to install gimp 
<allee> 2 me too
<[Nirvana] > I vote 2
<raphink> I installed ubuntu not long ago on a few machines and I remember gimp was not installed
<toma_> then i would vote 1. you dont have to use layers
* [Nirvana]  has to go out, it's been a great meeting :D
<raphink> bye [Nirvana]  
<raphink> jpatrick: ?
<allee> toma_: but they clutter interface.  krita is not useable by 'familie' or grandma Muriel ;)
<jpatrick> 2++
<raphink> allee: oh you've got a grandma Muriel?
<toma_> allee: then krita has changed a lot, i admit im not up-to-date.
<raphink> krita is aimed to replace photoshop 
<raphink> or gimp
<toma_> allee: but i hate really limited apps, last time i saw kolourpaint i was less then impressed. I could not do the simple things as i wanted
<jpatrick> If we have KOffice in Dapper+1, then we'll have Krita then
<raphink> toma_: most people on windows pirate photoshop and use paint
<Lure> jpatrick: that is potentially good point
<allee> It's it somehow possible to add a 'Krita (install)' menu ?  (ditto for koffice)
<toma_> allee: isnt edubuntu for your kids?
<raphink> toma_: no it's for schools
<jpatrick> toma_: something I was going say
<raphink> toma_: edubuntu is not aimed at children
<allee> edubuntu does much more
<raphink> not directly at least
<toma_> ok
<raphink> imo
<raphink> anyway, there's no rush on this, but Tonio wanted to point this out
<Lure> should we replace krita with kcolourpaint+digikam ;-)
<Lure> I am sure everybody has digital photos these days...
<raphink> digikam has nothing to do with it
<allee> Again: would it be an option to somehow make it 'trival' to install apps that should be there but didn't fit on CD?
<allee> candidates: krita, koffice, ..???
<raphink> allee: mornfall is working on this
<allee> raphink: great!
<raphink> allee: making a new adept stuff that will do as the simple installer for ubuntu
<jpatrick> allee: koffice will get openoffice out
<raphink> there has been snapshots last week I think
<raphink> jpatrick: not so far ;)
<raphink> ok anyway
<raphink> that's about it
<raphink> ;)
<allee> jpatrick: _when_ we move to koffice.  It should be very easy to add openoffice, even for newbies
<raphink> jpatrick, Riddell : Tonio also said he needs MOTUs to review netswitch/knetswitch (so either of you+me or something like this)
<toma_> isn't koffice comparable with kolourpaint as krita is with openoffice?
<jpatrick> yeah, I could
<raphink> toma_: ??
<Riddell> raphink: I've revu'ed it, go ahead
<raphink> toma_: you mean if koffice is to ooo what kolourpaint is to krita?
<raphink> Riddell: well that's it
* jpatrick does netswitch
<allee> lets postpone the koffice debat to dapper +1
<raphink> I think Tonio would like knetswitch to be in Kubuntu by default ideally
<raphink> but I doubt this is possible right now
<toma_> it seems inconsitent to me to choose for kolourpaint+openoffice, i would expect kolourpaint+koffice and krita+openofffice for users who want more
<Riddell> raphink: I don't think it's ready
<raphink> yes
<Riddell> raphink: there's user inteface issues, but also I've had it freeze on me
<raphink> but there's nothing else that is
<raphink> and the fact is that many people use wifi
<raphink> and there's no kde tool for it that is good enough
<Riddell> until knetworkmanager
<raphink> which is not to happen for now
<raphink> I mean we haven't seen it so far
<allee> yeah, network management is bit of a mess.
<Riddell> no, it needs a CVS network-manager
<allee> Riddell: will it be possible to backport knetworkmanager to dapper?  If yes, it may not make sense to invest energy in new tools for dapper that are better replace by something else
<allee> (the 'else' is knetworkmanager)
<jpatrick> raphink: are you uploading?
<raphink> uploading what jpatrick ?
<Riddell> allee: no, it can't be backported
<jpatrick> netswitch/knetswitch
<allee> argl :(
<allee> So
<allee> a) keep the status as in breezy
<raphink> jpatrick: no
<raphink> jpatrick: not yet
<allee> b) try to add *netswitch working before release
<raphink> jpatrick: but I can do it
<allee> more?
<jpatrick> raphink: I'm doing netswitch
<raphink> the fact is that the netswitch developers have basically redone the whole program in a week for us
<raphink> as Tonio asked them to modify some stuff
<raphink> they've been improving and programming it again for Dapper
<raphink> so we kind of owe them a good place for their work ;)
<raphink> they even developed knetswitch so it could be included in Kubuntu before FF
* allee nods
<allee> I assume we can request addition to main later (when we know it's ready for default use)
<allee> +?
<raphink> sure
<raphink> I'm sure after the work they've done for us they're ready to make it better 
<raphink> fix bugs and so on
<raphink> :)
<raphink> ok well no reaction
<raphink> anyway, the idea is to get it in universe for now
<raphink> and we'll see how it goes
<raphink> any other point to be talked about?
<allee> raphink: sounds good.  I can offer some time in this field.  But if upstream is actively involved there maybe no need
<jpatrick> netswitch uploaded
<raphink> yes
<raphink> tonio knows about this
<raphink> ok :)
<raphink> good :)
<allee> end?
<raphink> I guess
<raphink> who is leading the meeting?
<jpatrick> you
<raphink> hahaha
<raphink> no, I came late, can't be ;)
<raphink> ok well if no one has anything to say, then the meeting is over
<raphink> :)
<raphink> hmm 
<jpatrick> unless Hobbsee pops out right now
<raphink> we just have to plan next one
<raphink> I guess in two or three weeks
<jpatrick> same time
<Riddell> I'm busy in two weeks
<raphink> sure
<raphink> ok
<raphink> three weeks?
<raphink> the 15th of march
<raphink> is that fine?
<jpatrick> yep
<raphink> allee, Riddell ?
<allee> isn't this too late?
<allee> I mean ..
<raphink> not for me at least
<jpatrick> please note that the Kubuntu devs are evening people
<allee> shouldn't hte next meetng be some kind of status and todo before release.  to assign open points
<Riddell> fine for me
<allee> jpatrick: late in sense far away
<allee> so 3 weeks are too far away
<raphink> hmm
<raphink> well riddell is busy in 2 weeks
<raphink> and 1 week is too early
<raphink> since our main goal in the near future will be to fix bugs
<raphink> so there won't be much to talk about in a week I think
<jpatrick> write docs
<allee> well, let Riddell fix the date.  I assume only him knows the big picture and where more work & coordination is needed
<raphink> yes, too
<toma_> a bit ot, but i've a bit time left, if you need some simple hack or app for kubuntu, let me know. 
<raphink> sure
<raphink> toma_: bugfixing?
<allee> toma_: -d switch for media2path please
* allee hides
<toma_> allee: duck
<toma_> raphink: fixing is ok, hunting not
<jpatrick> toma_: https://launchpad.net/people/kubuntu-team/+assignedbugs
<Riddell> toma_: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/langpacks-desktopfiles-kde  :)
<raphink> sure
<Riddell> March 15th is fine
<raphink> Riddell: ok
<raphink> then we go for the 15th
<raphink> 20UTC
<allee> raphink: yes
<raphink> right?
<jpatrick> fine with me
<Riddell> yes
* allee nods
<raphink> good :)
<toma_> thnx for the pointers, will read them
<raphink> meeting is over then :)
<raphink> :)
<jpatrick> who's doing mintues?
<raphink> hehe good question :)
<jpatrick> suppose it's me
* allee files a wishlist report so toma find -d in malone there too.  heh, heh!
<raphink> you did it very weel last time jpatrick :D
* jpatrick does them
<raphink> thanks jpatrick 
<toma_> allee: please do, i lost track of what you wanted, you seemed confused back then
<toma_> (or send a mail)
<allee> -d return path to device (not mountpoint as returned by default)
<toma_> like in /dev/sda1 ?
<allee> toma_: I've send mail to ubuntu-motu to get rsibreak in.  No response yet
<allee> yes.
<toma_> i saw that, thanks for taking the time to write that message. 
<toma_> allee: ok, i'll look into it.
<allee> toma_: I have to go now. there a debian user meeting downtown today.  So I can't do anything to push rsibreak before midnight
<toma_> ok
<allee> bye all!  Maybe I here again after midnight. Maybe not :)
<toma_> have fun
* jpatrick starts writing: Krita vs. Kolourpaint
<kwwii> hi all
<kwwii> guess I missed it
<kwwii> bye all
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-02-28
<Kinnison> T-25 for meeting yes?
<fabbione> yup
* Kinnison wonders how bad it'll be to upgrade his machine during the meeting
<dholbach> Kinnison: you just have to try it to find out :)
* Kinnison nods and hits the red button
<ogra> dholbach, any news from lfittl wrt blender ?
<dholbach> from lfittl?
<dholbach> it's a sync
<dholbach> I said I'd wait for your test results
<mdz> everyone here?
<mdz> JaneW: I hope you have electricity
* Riddell here
<ogra> dholbach, we talked, you even sent a mail that you would "sponsor his upload" 
* dholbach talked to mvo and doko
<Mithrandir> I'm here RSN
<dholbach> ogra: please say "I have no objections" and I do it :)
<ogra> dholbach, i have no objections ... as i didnt thw last time we talked :P
<ogra> ;)
* Kinnison will be right back after these important messages from our sysvinit
<dholbach> mdz: seb128 will probably a few minutes late and informed JaneW beforehand
<mvo> dholbach: hu?
<dholbach> mvo: mdz just asked if everybody was there
* fabbione waves
* sivang waves
<JaneW> I am here..
<Mithrandir> I'm here now
<infinity> I think I'm here.
* sivang is but continues hacking at the background
<doko> dholbach: ?
<fabbione> infinity: perhaps you are sleeping and the Matrix makes you think you are here
<mdz> pinged BenC and iwj
<infinity> fabbione: I've considered that.  I do FEEL asleep.
<mdz> Kamion: here?
<Kinnison> I am here, but just need to reboot, so I'll be "away" for about 3 minutes
* pitti says hello
* sivang hugs pitti 
<ogra> Kinnison, and you think it will start again ?
<jbailey> ogra: The silence is perhaps a "no"? =)
<Kamion> here
<ogra> jbailey, *giggle* ...
<mdz> good morning all
<JaneW> still missing BenC, lathiat, mjg59, Riddell I think
<Riddell> I'm still here
<JaneW> oh wait we don't need mjg59...
<JaneW> hi Riddell 
<ogra> JaneW, Kinnison 
<mdz> dholbach: how late will seb128 be?
<JaneW> mdz: he said 5-10 mins
<mdz> ogra: Kinnison is clearly here
<dholbach> yeah
<ogra> mdz, i meant as mjg59 replacement :)
<mdz> ok
<mdz> let's begin
<mdz> Riddell, you're up first
<Riddell> done:
<Riddell>  kubuntu-express: is now working up to partitioning stages
<Riddell>  kubuntu-dapper-roadmap: flight 4 released, new kubuntu-default-settings with a lot of tweaks
<Riddell>  kubuntu-system-tools: guidance 0.6.1 uploaded, now sets a Xft DPI
<Riddell> specs:
<Riddell>  langpacks-desktopfiles-kde: new pending review, likely aim for dapper + 1
<Riddell>  kubuntu-launchpad-integration: moved target to dapper + 1
<Riddell>  kubuntu-system-tools: still pending review by mdz (was waiting on usability report)
<Riddell>  kubuntu-package-manager: adept-installer in, looking nice
<Riddell> next week: kubuntu-express
<mdz> Riddell: as of last week, none of your goals were implemented.  have any of them progressed to implemented now?
<mdz> today is feature freeze, the DAY OF RECKONING
* pitti shivers
<Riddell> kubuntu-system-tools and kubuntu-dapper-roadmap are implemented pending debugging
<JaneW> none of them are implemented in LP yet...
* sivang joins pitti  in shiverring
<mdz> Riddell: simplify-kde?
* Keybuk puts the heating on
<sivang> Keybuk: thanks :)
<Riddell> oh ys, kubuntu-default-settings should have been under simplify-kde, so that's implemented as of this morning
<seb128> hello
<JaneW> hi seb128 
<seb128> mdz: pong, sorry 5 min late ...
<mdz> Riddell: also, there are kubuntu-related bounties outstanding, yes?
<mdz> seb128: no problem, JaneW/dholbach passed on your message
<Riddell> adept-installer and adept-notifier are in
<mdz> Riddell,JaneW: sounds like the two of you should chat and arrive at a final status for each of these, as of feature freeze
<JaneW> mdz: ok. Riddell: just say when.
<mdz> for any partially complete specs, identify the pieces which fell out
<Riddell> .deb installer is not yet done
<Riddell> JaneW: yep, tomorrow morning maybe
<mdz> sivang?
<sivang> mdz: yes, am here
<mdz> sivang: the reckoning is upon you
<JaneW> Riddell: ok, ping when you are in
<sivang> mdz: okay, I've still got work to complete the goal, I have ran into a bad IO problem that delayed completion. I would require 2 more days, if not approved, I will continue in universe.
<sivang> mdz: (the issue is solved)
<JaneW> Riddell: try to make it before I get the report out (before about 11:00UTC)
<mdz> sivang: I did review your email, and while I see no reason why development should not continue past feature freeze, the decision as to whether to promote the application to the desktop must be taken today based on its current status
<Riddell> JaneW: ok
<sivang> mdz: then I would say it cannot be promoted today, not based on the current status. :-/
<Keybuk> what's the spec?
<sivang> HomeUserBackup
<sivang> mdz: two more days would have looked differently, but today it's not ready.
<mdz> sivang: dapper is our most conservative release so far; we need to make decisions based on known quantities, not projections
<sivang> mdz: I understand fully.
<mdz> ok, thanks
<mdz> looking forward to seeing it flourish in the future
<sivang> mdz: I will be happy with your decision, and will be happy to work to completion inuniverse. if you may find it suitable for inclusion past FF, that would rock as well.
<mdz> seb128?
<seb128> bug-flood: bug day, lot of bug triage and interaction with upstream. bug triage is under control but we still have quite a lot of them to actually fix
<seb128> video-playback: implemented, mail for testing has been send to the ubuntu-devel-announce list (thanks Daniel)
<seb128> dapper-desktop-plan: workspace switcher applet with tooltip uploaded, screenshot of session dialog change pointed by mail to mark (waiting for a reply to use the patch), investigated using a custom GTK theme for GDM theme (some changes for that went upstream after discussion with them, we may want some other small changes ... easy to do)
<JaneW> mdz: can you make a formal comment regarding the specs in braindump - is it acceptable to shunt them straight though to implemented? Or *must* they be signed off as approved first?
<seb128> tomorrow: will look on panel changes for dapper-desktop-plan (session menu and new support submenu)
<seb128> .
<seb128> next week: GNOME 2.13.92, bug fixing and triage, work on the desktop UI changes if required
<sivang> mdz: thank you :)
<mdz> JaneW: has to be decided on a case-by-case basis; if the spec is in braindump, that is a problem regardless of whether something was implemented
<seb128> s/bug/bugs :)
<mdz> seb128: is it realistic for dapper-desktop-plan to be finished tomorrow?
<mdz> it is an essential priority spec
<seb128> mdz: depending of what you call "finish" ... stuff like icons are missing and I'm in no way an artist
<seb128> ie: don't count on me to design them
<seb128> and I wait for a reply from Mark for the session dialog
<seb128> lock or no lock
<infinity> Icons are surely not required until the artwork freeze...
<mdz> seb128: ok, please go over the spec with JaneW and identify a) what is complete, b) work remaining for you, c) work which is blocked on external people/factors
<seb128> mdz: ok, will do
<JaneW> mdz: noted
<seb128> infinity: right, but they are part of the spec :)
* infinity nods.
<mdz> thanks, it's a large one and we need a fine-grained review
<seb128> agreed
<mdz> pitti?
<seb128> I'll mail tomorrow morning with the details for it
<pitti> status of unimplemented specs:
<pitti>  * langpacks-desktopfiles: DONE: fixed the majority of packages which don't use cdbs+gnome.mk; PLAN: do remaining 25ish manual package fixes, discuss the stuff with gnome/fd.o upstream
<pitti>  * reducing-duplication: DONE: mizilla and python2.3 in universe;  PLAN: gnutls 11->12 transition for all packages but openldap; BLOCK: need help with openldap
<pitti>  * automated-problem-reports, automatic-printer-conf, firewall: no blocks, no time, deferred to dapper+1
<pitti> general stuff done this week:
<pitti>  * managed to keep up with security updates (insane amount of stuff currently)
<pitti>  * libpng3 transition for main, libpng3 source package can go as soon as seb128 uploads new gnome-panel
<pitti>  * postgresql-common with SSL snakeoil cert support
<pitti>  * dapper langpacks coordination and discussion; almost there
<pitti>  * derootification of the most important hal addons
<pitti>  * some NetworkManager-related fixes
<pitti> general stuff planned next week:
<pitti>  * even more security updates (I need to grab infinity for PHP and apache2)
<pitti>  * bug fix sprint, now that FF is in effect
<infinity> We have an apache2 update now?  Woo.
<mdz> pitti: what are the manual fixes for langpacks-desktopfiles?
<infinity> pitti: Mail me about that one.
<pitti> mdz: .desktop and .server files need the gettext-domain attribute
<pitti> mdz: cdbs' gnome.mk adds it automatically
<infinity> As for the openldap gnutls thing, that requires actual development effort.  My quick (30 minute) attempt to port the openssl shim in London resulted in... Not much.
<pitti> mdz: but all packages which ship a desktop file and not use gnome.mk/cdbs must be fixed manually
<mdz> pitti: when do you estimate it can be completed?
<pitti> mdz: 2 days maybe
<pitti> mdz: the change is mostly trivial, though
<pitti> just a lot of work to cope with many packages
<mdz> can anyone assist pitti with some extra hands to churn through those remaining packages?
<pitti> the actual code changes are pretty stable for weeks now
<Keybuk> I can when back from Oslo
<mdz> Keybuk: you leave sunday? how about tomorrow?
<seb128> pitti: there is a new GNOME next week, we can update for that while uploading new versions if that makes things easier for you
<pitti> seb128: I did all gnome stuff
<seb128> oki
<pitti> gnome is easy, mostly cdbs :)
<jbailey> \o/
<seb128> righty
<Keybuk> mdz: can do a limited amount tomorrow, given limited connectivity, but yes
* pitti hugs Keybuk 
<janimo> pitti, I'll update the xfce apps if they need this too
<mdz> please try to finish it off by the end of the week so we can close the book on that one
<pitti> janimo: great
<pitti> mdz: yes
<mdz> pitti: openldap...sounds like we may not be able to do that bit
<pitti> right, I fear we need to keep gnutls11 just for that one
<infinity> If I find a round tuit, I'll hit openldap harder, but I don't want to keep the old gnutls just for one app if we can help it.
<mdz> if we need to keep it anyway, then it's not worthwhile to spend time transitioning the other packages
<dholbach> smurf wanted to do something for the gnutls transition he told me - I can ask him wrt to openldap
<infinity> I can try recruiting vorlon to help out (he wrote the shim in questoin that needs porting, and Debian will need to make the transition anyway)
<mdz> dholbach: ok, get him in touch with pitti and see if he can help this week
<pitti> external help would be appreciated
<dholbach> ok
<pitti> timing is important, though, I guess
<mdz> we can offer a bounty on it if it can be done on time
<mdz> pitti: likewise for the desktopfiles work if you can recruit someone
<infinity> The shim is lightweight enough that it either works, or it doesn't.  So it's a no-brainer to include it if it can get done at all.
<JaneW> pitti: let me know if you have anyone in mind... for a bounty
<infinity> I just didn't have the time to look closely enough at it.
<pitti> yes, will think about it
<mdz> in any case, finalize the status on it by the end of the week, identifying any items within the spec which weren't completed
<pitti> although we should be able to do it on our own without the bounty overhead
<mdz> (work with JaneW on it)
<pitti> yep
<mdz> pitti: we are very busy :-)
<mdz> thanks pitti
<mdz> ogra?
* mdz pokes ogra in the ribs
<ogra> * thin-client-memory-usage: no way to make nbd-server create swap files on the fly before feature freeze, started working on a patch to have it ready for dapper+1, apart from that (and possible improvements through including dash needs more testing for dapper+1), the spec is implemented
<ogra> * gnome-screensaver-default-image: xscreensaver package work done, jdub wants to do the artwork related stuff
<ogra> * general: lots and lots of ltsp merges and patch reviews, nbd swap sadly dropped not doable in time, added the missing yaboot bits, two days of heavy flight4 work, finished the screensaver package split, first edubuntu-docs package done with an initial little howto (sits in NEW)
<ogra> * next-week: documentation and artwork package work for edubuntu, get the last bugs out of the package and use more sane defaults for the theme selector. triage my bugs. get more testing for the last ltsp merges. find out why late command in the edubuntu installer seems not to work (no ssh keys in the installed system)
<ogra> yes ?
<mdz> ogra: you were lagged, I guess
<ogra> didnt my paste get through ?
<dholbach> it did
<ogra> ah
<ogra> i *am* lagged 
<mdz> ogra: screensaver is complete except for providing the set of images?
* ogra pokes bcm43xx
<ogra> mdz, the package jdub wanted to care for is missing
<ogra> but thats minor
<mdz> what package?
<doko> ogra: no screensaver preview?
<ogra> he wasnt happy with me splitting out ubuntu-artwork-screensaver 
<jdub> mdz: a pacakge for a set of screensaver images
<ogra> mdz, i splitted it from ubuntu-artwork ...
<jdub> ogra: more that i'd prefer it to be useful first, and a separate source package
<ogra> seems that wasnt desired :)
<mdz> JaneW: so we'll consider the development complete but continue to track for artwork (due by UI freeze, coordinate with silbs/jdub/etc.)
<JaneW> mdz: ok
<mdz> thanks ogra
<mdz> mvo?
<mvo> Did:
<mvo> - default-apt-sources: implemented as described in http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DefaultAptSources (apt/aptitude/synaptic uploaded to dapper)
<mvo> - gnome-app-install: updated to latest desktop files, added help (thanks docteam), added support for "pseudo" desktop file (eg. gstreamer plugins, severs), fix some issues with kde (theme, description)
<mvo> - grub splash changes reverted (should we automatically undo all of it)
<mvo> - wrote some more content for the ImproveLanguageSelector spec (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LanguageSelectorImprovements)
<mvo> - dist-upgrade: latest version backported to breezy, release-notes screen more useful, supports clickable links now etc, tested upgrade (and nagged people)
<mvo> Will do:
<mvo> - bugfixing
<mvo> - get the upgrade-tool tarball into the archive.u.c (currently living on people.u.c)
<mvo> - ask for promotion of gdebi to main
<mvo> - get the automatic-distupgrade infrastructure in place (with the help of infinity)
<Kamion> mvo: have you tried out the installer on a non-networked machine since implementing default-apt-sources, to see if it does the right thing?
<pitti> no grub splash? it caused too many bugs?
<Kamion> as we discussed, it should do automatically, but needs checking
<Kamion> pitti: right
<mdz> pitti: correct, where "too many bugs" was "some bugs we don't know how to fix"
<mvo> Kamion: no, not yet, only on a normal system
<Kamion> several machines couldn't display anything
<mvo> pitti: yes. too risky
<mdz> mvo: third-party-packages?
<mvo> mdz: implemented, the problem is we don't really have any that are available in a external repository
<JaneW> mdz: are we going to track language-selector-improvements on the report?
<mdz> JaneW: not as yet
<mvo> mdz: the deb installer should work (gdebi) needs promotion
<JaneW> mdz: ok
<mdz> JaneW: but I do want mvo to think on it, given sabdfl's comments
<mdz> mvo: anything blocking the promotion?
<JaneW> mvo: thanks from getting default-apt-sources out of red :)
<mvo> mdz: no
<mdz> mvo: is release-upgrades implemented or no?
<mdz> mvo: I don't see gdebi in anastacia
<infinity> It's not seeded.
<mvo> mdz: it is implemented, it's not yet on archive.u.c (because I need to talk to the lp people first)
<mvo> mdz: sorry, gdebi is not yet part of ubuntu-desktop
<mdz> mvo: ok, please proceed with seeding/promotion/metapackages and then update it to implemented via janew
<mvo> mdz: will do that, thanks
<mdz> mvo: regarding release-upgrades, if it is too complex to do the infrastructure work immediately, we can set up a separate something.ubuntu.com which provides a simple web space
<mdz> mvo: please find out what is possible and report back via janew tomorrow
<mdz> it is essentially complete, but we need to continue to track its deployment in production as far as infrastructure
<mdz> thanks mvo
<mvo> mdz: I think it should be possible to use a similar mechanism as the cd uploads
<mdz> Mithrandir?
<Mithrandir> misc: got up to speed on espresso development.  I feel reasonably confident in hacking around there now and the keyboard configurator is coming along nicely.
<Mithrandir> next week: some more espresso hacking, sprint with Scott
<Mithrandir> blocked on: nothing for next week, still haven't access to popcon.ubuntu.com
<Kamion> Mithrandir: we need to decide what you're working on after keymap support - or you can just grab something, whatever
<mdz> Mithrandir: congrats on having all of your targets implemented early
<Mithrandir> mdz: thanks. :-)
<Kamion> (as a reward, have some more targets! ;-))
<doko> Mithrandir: ia32-* packages need updating
* Keybuk hands Mithrandir a gold star from the stationery cupboard
<Mithrandir> doko: file bugs, assign to me, please.
* fabbione hands over X to Mithrandir 
<mdz> Mithrandir,Kamion: is there still an unresolved issue regarding the keymap selection in the boot loader?
<Mithrandir> mdz: there was a bit of confusion regarding the placement of the choice, but I think Kamion resolved that
<mdz> Mithrandir: I think doko said oo.o2-amd64 needed attention
<Kamion> mdz: no, I don't believe so
<simira> Mithrandir: are you talking about "my" kbd-trouble now?
<mdz> ok
<Kamion> well
<Mithrandir> mdz: as in the spec or as in the package?
<Kamion> there is a question of whether the language choice should automatically select a keymap too
<mdz> Mithrandir: the package
<doko> Mithrandir: either the spec (native) or the package (i386)
<Kamion> at present if you select the French language it immediately shifts you into the French keymap
<Mithrandir> doko: native has been deferred as of last meeting.
<Kamion> I'm on the fence about that, because there are some languages where multiple very different keymaps are available (e.g. French vs. French Canadian)
<mdz> yes, native isn't there yet and we aren't in a position to push it
<Kamion> however, it's very easy to switch the autoselection on and off
<Kamion> (in the code I mean)
<mdz> Kamion: sounds like something to include in a Flight announcement and ask users whether it DTRT for them
<mdz> ok
<mdz> thanks Mithrandir
<mdz> JaneW: any notes from lathiat/krstic?
<pitti> Kamion: autoselection == automatic default, or it won't even ask you for the keyboard any more?
<mdz> it looks like avahi will need to be an optional add-on for dapper purposes
<JaneW> nope, krystic's goal is deferred and I will mail Lathiat
<JaneW> mdz: I have been pinging Lathiat but he is not responding (in #u-d)
<mdz> JaneW: no need to mail him, I don't think
<Kamion> mdz: the discussion came up after Flight 4 already, although I can mention it more clearly
<mdz> has to be deferred at this point
<JaneW> mdz: what's is happening with zeroconf?
<mdz> Kamion: and no clear consensus?
<Kamion> pitti: automatic default, but it also takes immediate effect in the boot loader
<mdz> JaneW: deferred, we have unresolved issues and it's too late to do much about it
<Kamion> mdz: not as yet, it's a young discussion
<JaneW> mdz: ok I'll change the ststus in LP
<mdz> Kamion: ok, perfect then
<mdz> Kinnison?
<Kinnison>  * PowerManagementConfiguration
<Kinnison>    * Spec rewritten and approved
<Kinnison>    * 90% implemented.
<Kinnison>    * Remaining: Hibernate-button support
<Kinnison>  * General
<Kinnison>    * Fixed race condition between autologin desktop and powernowd
<Kinnison>    * Made it so that gnome-screensaver responds to KEY_COFFEE
<Kinnison>    * Soyuz package test set for Celso
<Kinnison>    * Helped with launchpad rollout hiccoughs on Tuesday
<Kinnison>  * Next week
<Kinnison>    * Hibernate button support for gnome-power-manager (Needs FF exception in theory, or I can class it as a bugfix, there is a bug about this already)
<Kinnison>    * Bug fixing for gnome-power-manager
<Kinnison>    * I imagine I'll attack more of the powernowd bugs and other powermanagement
<mdz> Kinnison: assessment of power-management-configuration with regard to The Reckoning?
<Kinnison> stuff.
<JaneW> Kinnison: thanks for sorting that spec out :)
<Kinnison> mdz: as I said, 90% implemented, the remaining item is the hibernate button
<mdz> Kinnison: can you get the hibernate button resolved tomorrow?
<Kinnison> mdz: I can probably write support on the ferry yes
<mdz> Kinnison: ferry?
<Kinnison> mdz: I'm going to fosdem tomorrow, as per our previous agreement
<mdz> Kinnison: not on StaffCalendar
<Kinnison> mdz: I haven't hit submit yet, I've done everything else
<mdz> I can't even keep my own schedule in my head, much less 16 others :-P
* Kinnison grins
<pitti> Hi BenC 
<Kinnison> mdz: is the rest enough?
<BenC> hello, sorry for being late, lost track of time working on some things
<mdz> Kinnison: hopefully polish off power-management-configuration with a minimum of lateness, and then get cracking on bugs
<Kinnison> mdz: Yep, I'll do that
<mdz> Kinnison: please set up package bug contacts for appropriate stuff if you haven't already
* Kinnison has put himself as bug contact on g-p-m
<mdz> Kinnison: powernowd, the laptop team, etc.
<iwj> mdz: We seem to be running rather late ...
<mdz> iwj: yes
<mdz> not entirely unexpected considering the freeze
<ogra> Kinnison, btw, i'd vote for hughsie (g-p-m upstream) for the most responsive upstream ....
<mdz> but we'll do the best we can
<mdz> thanks Kinnison
<mdz> Keybuk?
<Kinnison> mdz: Will do
<Keybuk> streamlined-boot: written up, and marked as implemented (If I give it any more cap'n, she's gonna blow)
<Keybuk> mountall needs a good kicking in the output dept, but Debian has exactly the same bugs so I've been opportunistically waiting for them to fix it
<Keybuk> network-magic: changes to network manager done, and it's been moved to main; there still remains the big question of whether to put it on the CD or install by default
<infinity> It irritates the crap out of me (I mount a LOT of filesystems on boot), so I may just fix it one day before I scream.
<Keybuk> udev seems stable, the ifrename stuff is working perfectly, so I'm going to get rid of the _clashed debugging thing soon
<mdz> Keybuk: we need to take a decision on that shortly
<Keybuk> yeah, my inclination is to install by default on the LiveCD but not on in desktop
<infinity> I use NetworkManager daily now, and I still vote for it *NOT* being in the desktop by default.
<mdz> Keybuk: that is an excellent idea
<mdz> Keybuk: that way we can get some testing for it and still roll it back
<fabbione> infinity: +1
<Keybuk> we could put it in ship
<Keybuk> (for the real install)
<pitti> ship++
<Keybuk> or just leave it in suppored
<mdz> Keybuk: let's get it on the live CD straight away
<infinity> I'll seed it to live right now.
<Keybuk> ok, can someone make that change ... neither data centre machines let me in right now
<mdz> Keybuk: ideally what we want is a sabdfl-style "turn it on and see if it smokes"
<Mithrandir> Keybuk: you still ignore stuff in /etc/network/interfaces, right?  So I should just stop generating that?
<mdz> but adding it to the metapackages is difficult to roll back
<Keybuk> Mithrandir: it now doesn't ignore an interface that's "auto ethX" and just "iface ethX inet dhcp"
<Keybuk> it will ignore it if the auto is missing, it's static, or there are any other options (like wireless-essid)
<ogra> also if the user installs with espresso it will be the default, no ?
<Kamion> that was a GOOD chance - makes my life much easier
<Kamion> ogra: no
<mdz> Keybuk: if you can think of a way to get it into desktop by default and gracefully roll back, let's do that too
<Keybuk> but yes, you could stop generating that
<mdz> need to move on though
<mdz> Keybuk: thanks
<mdz> Kamion?
<Kamion> ubuntu-express-base-system: Language and timezone pages both done (the latter using the Evolution map widget; http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/tmp/espresso-location.png), and Tollef's almost done with the keymap page. Nearly there on the major missing bits of UI!
<Mithrandir> Keybuk: ok.  Good.  I'm writing that out.
<Keybuk> mdz: otherwise I think all my specs are implemented :)
<Kamion> ue-gnome-ui: I'm part-way through the "Ready to install" page; shouldn't take much longer.
<Kamion> ubuntu-express: Unimplemented status (counting only things on the to-do list that I think come under features rather than bugs): keymap support, language pack support, some of the partitioning changes, yaboot support, half-decent localisation (text that comes from the debconf database is localised, but I need a small debconf change before I can make that apply to everything), and preseeding glue.
<Kamion> misc: Flight CD 4, including Espresso. Bug reports have been coming in at a fairly steady trickle, mostly about dodginess in the partitioner. Quite a bit of ftpmastery (NEW wasn't quite clear by feature freeze, but it was a lot better than it was three days ago).
<Kamion> next-week: Espresso language pack support, dealing with removing live-only packages, yaboot support; then continue with the to-do list.
<mdz> Keybuk: please have your update typed up in advance next time :-P
<Keybuk> mdz: I did, on the wrong machine, heh
<mdz> Mithrandir: which of the UE todo items are on your plate now?
<Keybuk> for some reason my MAD CRAZY madwifi-ng hack to have an ath0 and ath1 on different networks isn't playing ball this evening
<mdz> Kamion: how is the UE test feedback from flight 4 so far?
<Kamion> at present, only keymap, but I expect to hand off others
<Mithrandir> mdz: I'll finish up the keyboard selector.
<Mithrandir> mdz: after that, it's going to be next week.
<mdz> Kamion: ok, figure with JaneW what makes sense as far as tracking your combined progress
<Kamion> mdz: see "misc:" - mostly that the partitioner is very flaky, and known espresso-grub bugs
<Mithrandir> mdz: but I'll coordinate with Kamion about it.  I'm sure he has a big list for me. :-)
<Kamion> however I've not been paying a lot of attention to the bug list while there's feature work still to do
<mdz> ok
<Kamion> some of them will disappear naturally anyway
<mdz> Kamion: let's have a UE heart-to-heart tomorrow or early next week
<Kamion> right
<mdz> thanks
<mdz> jbailey?
<Kamion> tomorrow's fine by me
<jbailey>  * ToolchainRoadmapNg: Some of my testing has been stalled by support work.  I'm still aiming for a rebuild request after my sprint next week.
<jbailey>  * Other: Same support work has stalled some of my glibc bug fixing. The critical ones are the timezone breakage and adding RLIMIT_RTPRIO.
<fabbione> jbailey: ETA for glibc?
<BenC> jbailey: does the kernel support RTLIMIT_RTPRIO?
<fabbione> it's blocking bash and pam my side
<mdz> jbailey: anything dapper-targeted that we need to know about?
<doko> jbailey: there's one more glibc hppa fix needed
<fabbione> BenC: from > .12
<BenC> ok
<doko> fabbione: you're doing the bash RTLIMIT_RTPRIO side?
<jbailey> mdz: The timezone is dapper targetted, breaks upgrade tool.
<jbailey> fabbione: I can do the RTLIMIT stuff in a separate upload and get it done quickly.
<fabbione> doko: if you want do it, i am ok with it
<fabbione> jbailey: ok
<Kamion> fabbione: I already did the PAM RLIMIT_RTPRIO change
<mdz> jbailey: ETA?
<jbailey> doko: 'k.  Are we building hppa again now?
<Kamion> it's just hacked to #define them itself
<fabbione> Kamion: MEH no.,.
<fabbione> Kamion: there is more than that
<fabbione> the patch is dirty
<doko> fabbione: please send me a patch, have an upload pending ...
<fabbione> doko: ok
<mvo> jbailey: I *could* do ugly hacks to work around the zimezone question, but if I can avoid it ...
<jbailey> mdz: Before I leave for the sprint to avoid lagging it past there.
<jbailey> mdz: So before Sunday evening.
<mdz> JaneW: did I CC you on the RTLIMIT_RTPRIO stuff? if not, please remind me to forward you the thread
<Kamion> fabbione: er, ok, I poked at it and it looked fine; -> #ubuntu-devel and tell me what you're on about? :)
<mdz> jbailey: ok, thanks
<mvo> jbailey: let me know if I can help with the tz stuff
<mdz> iwj: next
<JaneW> mdz: not that I can recall...
<Kamion> I just saw the bug, I didn't know multiple other people were working on it already
<doko> jbailey: don't know, but it makes python and perl throw bus errors
<jbailey> mvo: Mostly it'll just be testing to make sure your upgrade tool is happy.
<mvo> jbailey: I'm happy to do testing for you 
<jbailey> mvo: Thanks.
<siretart> BenC: pam needs to be patched for RTPRIO as well, the patch is really small and as attachment in malone
<mdz> iwj: ping
<iwj> ...
<iwj> DefaultApplicationsFirefox: Final change for this made - turning off the `You have chosen to open ...' dialogue.
<iwj> DefaultApplicationsFirefox: I have had some comments that this question is necessary for security, or that it is needed to sometimes allow the user to override a website to let them download a file rather than opening it.  I will be posting about this to ubuntu-devel tomorrow.  If you have an opinion, please participate there.
<iwj> AutomatedTesting: no change to code since last report, not blocked; now planning local test build on Xen virtual machine.
<iwj> AutomatedTesting: piuparts looks like it doesn't really want to be integrated; it has its own chroot-handling etc., so it really ought to be run separately.
<iwj> Firefox maintenance: otherwise relatively quiet.  Still a conffile prompt needing sorting out.  I've had representations about -fno-strict-aliasing: currently we compile with -fstrict-aliasing as a consequence of -O2; if someone has a crash that goes away with -fno-.. we should turn that back on again.
<iwj> DeveloperDocumentation: Editing work in progress (slow).
<iwj> Bugs backlog: Awful.  I think I'm going to stop looking in detail at unconfirmed firefox reports except to reply when appropriate to the emails as they come in.
<iwj> Bugs backlog: What's the status of the Malone searching and display UI problems/improvements ?  (Malone #29569, #30846, #29678)  Bugfixing during freeze is going to be seriously hampered unless our tools improve quickly !
<iwj> Bugs backlog: Email backlog: ~24h.
<mdz> iwj: d-a-f implemented, then?
<iwj> mdz: Yes.
<iwj> Modulo complaints like infinity's.
<doko> iwj: turning off the dialogue seems to be controversial?
<mdz> if there are any mime types where we're not doing the right thing with this setup, those are bugs
<mdz> we'll discuss on the list
<iwj> Right.
<mdz> doko: the sab does not consider it controversial ;-)
<Kamion> siretart: already done, see #ubuntu-devel
<doko> well, then ... ;-)
<mdz> iwj: speaking of which, it's been requested that we do the same thing to thunderbird.  not sure if it uses the same system, but please look into it (maybe with Mithrandir?)
<iwj> mdz: Sure.  I can supply the patch, which is nice and small.
<iwj> (I don't know Thunderbird at all, so we'll need a TB expert to handle that end of it.)
<infinity> mdz: I've been doing tbird, not Tollef.
<mdz> iwj: regarding automated-testing, can we consider the system itself to be complete and the remaining work deployment?
<mdz> infinity: ok, sure
<infinity> iwj: Your patch should apply cleanly (ish), but we'll wait for the outcome of the flamewar.  (The GNOME/MIME patch already applies, I've tested)
<iwj> mdz: Yes, I think so.  That would be one way of looking at it.
<mdz> iwj: that's the way of looking at it where it isn't late ;-)
<iwj> The whole testing thing is an ongoing process really so it's difficult to pick a time when we say it's `complete'.
<iwj> not late> Sure :-).
<mdz> iwj: for dapper it's about the low-hanging fruit.  if we're actually test-installing stuff, that's already a huge benefit
<iwj> It's certainly at the point now where other people besides Ubuntu can deploy it.
<mdz> we knew we wouldn't have a huge wealth of tests yet
<mdz> ok
<mdz> iwj: thanks
<mdz> infinity?
<infinity> splash-down: Implementation for this has landed and is working.  A few bugs will need to be ironed out (some text flicker, and making sure we survive for the last few seconds of the shutdown), but it's pretty much working as-is.
<infinity> last week distro: initramfs-tools hacking (including fixing a longstanding conffile editing and dist-upgrade bug), Berkeley DB Java support fixes, new fglrx upstream in LRM, ssl-cert upload for unified snakeoil setup (server-candy), new Samba upstream version, and some other random bugfixes and triaging.
<iwj> I'll keep work on it, obviously.
<infinity> last week buildd/soyuz: Again, spent a lot of time hunting down broken builds, spent time talking with cprov about how we're going to fix the buildds to do what we want/need.  Spent some time discussing translation handling with pitti, who now seems to have things underway with cprov/carlos to get things happening The Right Way.  \o/
<infinity> next week distro: Time to start on hardcore bug triaging/fixing.  First target for me is cleaning up and polishing Thunderbird, which is shiny enough in its new upstream version, but obviously rough around the edges.  Also, get auto-distupgrade testing tested and running for mvo.
<infinity> next week buildd/soyuz: I've arranged to spend time next week doing (remote) pair-programming with cprov (approved by mdz and kiko), so we can fix some of the more glaring outstanding issues that are eating my time (auto-dep-wait handling, dep-wait removal in the queuebuilder, and auto-give-backs are the top three moles to whack)
<pitti> infinity: does that also include s/mozilla-tbird/tbird/?
<pitti> infinity: asac asked me about this
<mdz> I guess pitti covered reducing-duplication
<infinity> pitti: asac and I wanted to do it (and we had a branch where it was being worked on), but I fear mdz will veto it now that FF is upon us...
<pitti> infinity: I talked with him wrt totally broken locale package support
<mdz> pitti: what's the rationale for renaming it?
<pitti> but no result yet
<infinity> mdz: Comments?  If the tbird rename can land *REALLY QUICKLY* is it still a go?
<pitti> mdz: same as m-firefox, trademarkish issues
<infinity> mdz: Same rationale as renameing firefox, the mozilla foundation would really, really like us to (trademark violation)
<mdz> infinity: I don't have enough information; would the two of you send me the details via email?
<pitti> mdz: not that *I* would be overly interested in it, I just thought we have to
<mdz> best answer for now is "maybe"
<mdz> please include details about which packages are affected; the fewer the better
<iwj> infinity: You've had actual official contact from Mozilla Foundation people saying they want us to rename it ?
<infinity> mdz: I'll pow-wow with asac and see how quickly we think we can land it, then mail you with details.
<mdz> thanks
<infinity> iwj: We, as in both Debian and Ubuntu have has in the past, yes.
<mdz> heno/dholbach: example-content?
<infinity> s/has/had/
<dholbach>  example-content: another update, Music files included as well - no idea, how to proceed with the visibilification (answers on ubuntu-devel@ were rather undecided)
<iwj> infinity: OK.
<heno> * example-content: the example files them selves are comming along fine. I haven't made much progress on the integration with Rhythmbox playlists and adding pictures to gthumb, etc.
<dholbach> hopefully jdub is still awake and can give some input
<ogra> dholbach, its 9pm where he is ...
<heno> * accessibility: not an official dapper-goal, but worth mentioning that some very cool stuff has come together this week, mainly thanks to TheMuso
<ogra> dholbach, he *should* be awake ;P
<seb128> ogra: jdub is not always respecting the local timezone though :)
<ogra> hehe
<mdz> dholbach: ok, need to resolve the visibilification by the end of this week.  if the desktop team cannot come to a decision, I will have to ask the sab ;-)
<fabbione> guys we are already running out of time. can we please skip extra commetns and speed up?
<dholbach> mdz: sounds good.
<ogra> seb128, he's on jdub-time you mean :)
<mdz> fabbione: we'll do the best we can; there is a lot to sum up given FF
<jdub> dholbach: i want directories in users's home with symlinks to example content dirs
<mdz> fabbione: you're up
<seb128> dholbach: take a decision, or I'm not sure we will like the one the sab will take :p
<fabbione> Since we are in Feature Freeze the report is to be considered "final" for features:
<fabbione> (Jane I kept a similar and complete struct as last time, so it should be easy to parse)
<fabbione> * server-candy: "Ship a Server Test Suite on the CD": deferred. "Third party software inclusion": we have a list of apps submitted by community that needs to be reviewed (licence) and in case packaged. "central snakeoil SSL setup": missing 2 packages. "Create an MD5 checker for the Ubuntu Installer rescue mode": deferred. All code has been done. Admins did not deliver #723. "Provide a RCS /etc out of the box" deferred to dapper+1 (too ma
<fabbione> ny issues have been raised to be done in a proper way in such short time).
<fabbione> * ubuntu-cluster: Usual round of redhat cluster suite updates.  SLURM - deferred (licence issues and no time to port it to gnutls), DRBD - deferred (it's basically only x86* and it has a bunch of annoying limitations to be really useful), LVS (ipvsadm and keepalived) - packages moved to main (need to check if they are on CD), ganglia - deferred (pkgs are old and missing a lot of love. Ivoks did an amazing race against time to get them do
<fabbione> ne with no luck).
<fabbione> * last week: a lot of server-candy and ubuntu-cluster work.
<fabbione> * next week: Start heavy bug squashing (yes yes.. including X, ok??).
<dholbach> jdub: ok, let's chat about that afterwards
<seb128> jdub: I'm with you on that one
<jdub> seb128: we just have to fight for supremacy over Kamion ;)
<seb128> :)
<mdz> fabbione: ok, thanks
<mdz> doko?
<doko> [this week] 
<doko> - openoffice: update rosetta import, new kurdish package, OOo test builds, test builds, test builds, gnome-integration patches, 2.0.2rc2 uploads
<doko> - java-roadmap/native-gcj: gij/gcj-4.1 update, eclipse update, some package rebuilds
<doko> - other: db4.x debugging & fixes, some syncs, zope/schooltool related uploads
<doko> [next week] 
<doko> - openoffice: 2.0.2 rc5, upload of related packages
<doko> - final toolchain packages
<Kamion> if you guys did it only for the first user and users created with user-admin, and not for those created with adduser/useradd on servers with 10000 users, we might be closer to agreement
<doko> - review selection of python modules for the desktop
<doko> [status}
<doko> - openoffice-gnome: partially implemented. Implemented: no more focus stealing, gnome-file-selector (needs more fixes -> martink, next week). Not implemented: copy-and-paste behaviour (help needed), use of gnome-personal-defaults
<doko> - openoffice-amd64: doesn't currently build. Mithrandir: updated control/rules files for i386 binaries on ronne:~doko/ooo/2.0.2/amd64
<doko> - openoffice-l10n: package renaming is done, needs testing.
<doko> - toolchain-roadmap is implemented, pending the uploads of the final release versions (4.1.0, 4.0.3, 3.4.6), the latter pending approval from jbailey. The upstream releases are scheduled for February.  Should that one be set to implemented?
<doko> - python-roadmap was "completed" last week, but we decided not to  upload it to dapper, therefore the handful of uploads to drop python2.3. I'm building a test repository on p.u.c, so people can test it, and its ready for our next transition to 2.5. Planning to  have an external python2.5 repository for dapper (outside of dapper). Delayed this week due too OOo work. low priority target. Still pending: The update to 2.4.3.  Sho
<iwj> I'm afraid I really have to go now or I might miss my dinner.  I'll review the log tomorrow.
<doko> uld that one be set to implemented?
<doko> - native-gcj: works for eclipse and OOo (the latter still i386 only).  Adding these doesn't affect the other packages. needs testing, working OOo packages without a native gcj package have priority.
<mdz> iwj: ok
<jbailey> doko: 3.4.6 is waiting on my approval?
<doko> jbailey: that glibc still builds (but there no more C related changes, just C++)
<mdz> doko: no release dates yet from upstream?
<jbailey> doko: Ah, okay.   Are the packages just on p.u.c for testing?
<doko> mdz: all estimated for next week. trying to get updates ...
<doko> ... on this information
<mdz> doko: I have emails with you with details; will follow up there
<doko> mdz: thanks
<mdz> doko: so python-roadmap is partially implemented, some parts deferred
<doko> mdz: yes, we decided two weeks ago to not include it in dapper anymore
<mdz> final status for java-roadmap?
<mdz> doko: (yes, clarifying final status for JaneW)
<doko> implemented, without -doc packages (API documentation) 
<mdz> ok
<mdz> thanks
<mdz> dholbach?
<dholbach> apart from example-content and a11y-improvements:
<dholbach> this week (done): bug triage, random fixes
<dholbach> this week (todo): more bug triage, finish off apt-get.org
<dholbach> next week (todo): new GNOME, more bug triage
<mdz> specs all implemented, thanks
<dholbach> :)
<mdz> dholbach: any good feedback from the test plan announcement?
<dholbach> lots of bug reports :)
<mdz> how was bug day?
<JaneW> doko: java roadmap?
<dholbach> and people in #ubuntu-bugs
<mdz> JaneW: <doko> implemented, without -doc packages (API documentation) 
<dholbach> i think it was on an all time high, although seb and i agreed to set up goals for the desktop bug squashers to have work during the weeks (and not only on bug days)
<JaneW> mdz: ah there it is, thanks
<dholbach> to have more of permanent action
<dholbach> we need a bug squashers team page and stuff like that to make it more formal and a bigger team
<dholbach> (team shirts and stuff like that ;)))
<mdz> heh
<mdz> sounds good, thank
<mdz> s
<mdz> BenC?
<BenC> community-server-hardware-testing: Pretty much implemented. Announcement was sent out.
<BenC> Work this week: Bugs and more bugs. Trying to classify all the breezy->dapper regressions. Purchased and setup an amd64-k8 system to help with a few of the "x86_64 only" bugs.
<BenC> Work next week: Mostly work on regression type bugs. There's quite a few crashes that didn't happen in Breezy. I'm going to be setting up a lot of one-on-one's with bug submitters via IRC to help speed up the dev cycle, testing patches, etc.
<sivang> dholbach: we need #ubuntu-qa maybe :)
<doko> dholbach: for bug squashing ... please consider to change the reportbug email address to something that launchpad can handle
<mdz> BenC: the remainder of server-hardware-testing is to collect information from the community on which hardware they are testing, and track test results through the release cycle
<mdz> so that should be ongoing
<BenC> correct
<JaneW> Can everyone try to get their final FF status updates and spec reviews etc to me by 12:00 UTC tomorrow please, so the report is not too delayed.
<dholbach> doko: that was already agreed on and requires launchpad xmlrpc changes (and changes of reportbug) iirc
<mdz> likewise for preventing-hardware-support-regressions; any feedback there from that announcement?
<BenC> nothing really
<mdz> "we need to know if your hardware still works with Dapper; if not, don't complain later"
<BenC> haven't checked the wiki to see if there is anything submitted yet
<BenC> still going through bug reports, so there may be something there
<BenC> and no real way to tell if the bug report was the result of the announcement :)
<mdz> BenC: we should include a blurb in every Flight announcement with text equivalent to the above; this needs to be very visible to users and let them know that it is their responsibility to help us test; it is the only way for us to provide any likelihood that their systems work well
<mdz> "OR ELSE"
<BenC> mdz: who sends those announcements?
<mdz> BenC: Kamion
<BenC> I'll write something up to ammend it
<BenC> ok
<mdz> I believe he has a wiki page where things can be added 
<mdz> which are then rolled into the announcements
<Kamion> not really, I usually look at the last one I sent
<BenC> heh
<Kamion> if you mail me text I'll make sure to include it
<doko> Kamion: when does the next flight fly?
<doko> (planned)
<Kamion> doko: I only just did one, I need to get some work done now ;-)
<mdz> Kamion: a wiki page would be a good idea, rather than having you sort through emails
<Kamion> doko: but I guess next week or the week after
<Kamion> mdz: fair enough, I'll try to establish one
<jdub> mdz: i spoke to Kamion earlier this week about sorting out a better system for this
* jdub is going to help iut with that
<mdz> ok, we're over time (but not as far as I'd feared), so we should wrap up
<doko> Kamion: I'd like to have OOo 2.0.2 rc5 there ...
<mdz> we'll see how JaneW's report looks to get the overview, but in general, it looks like we did very well this time around
<mdz> with regard to choosing achievable targets
<JaneW> mdz: yes it's looking very green *grin*
<JaneW> mdz: yes I think a better selection was made
<BenC> congrats to all, jobs well done
<mdz> adjourned, thanks everyone and congratulations
<JaneW> thanks everyone
<pitti> thansk everyone
<dholbach> thanks everyone
<BenC> thanks mdz
<ogra> mdz, there are a ton of syncs outstanding ...
<fabbione> cya everybody
<doko> thanks
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Seveas] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 3 Mar 21:00 UTC: Documentation Team | 7 Mar 12:00 UTC: Community Council
<JaneW> to all those that need to update me, I will be in from around 7:00UTC ping me
<pitti> right, syncs are badly lagging
<doko> dholbach: dogwalk, or beer?
<mdz> ogra: they'll be honored
<dholbach> doko: some work todo
<Keybuk> mm, beer
<infinity> ogra: Syncs need some technical sorting, that's all.
* Kinnison heads off
<Kinnison> ciau all
<dholbach> doko: looking at gnome-session patch, some main inclusion reports for a11y stuff
<ogra> yes, the motu people are just worried because elmo seemed kind of unresponsive to them 
<infinity> mdz: I've been up all night triaging and talking to cprov, while waiting for the meeting.  Any objections to me breaking core hours for a bit of a morning nap? :)
<Keybuk> ogra: he's been unresponsive to everyone, hasn't he?
<Kamion> ogra: you can tell them that that's because the sync code is still in progress
<Kamion> (which I'm pretty sure is the case)
<ogra> Keybuk, yes, but i grok how busy he is inn #c
<ogra> Kamion, oki
<mdz> infinity: none
<infinity> mdz: Danke.
<doko> dholbach: don't understand your last remark
<infinity> Good morning/afternoon/evening/night everyone.
<dholbach> doko: that's stuff i'm going to do now
<dholbach> infinity: to you too
<pitti> night everyone
<sivang> night all and happy hacking for those who continue
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-03-01
* poningru hugs \sh_away 
<poningru> hope you feel better man
<poningru> \sh_away: let me know if there is anything I can do
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:robitaille] :  Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 1 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 2 Mar 02:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 3 Mar 21:00 UTC: Documentation Team | 7 Mar 12:00 UTC: Community Council
<shygoly05g> help
<shygoly05g> i reinstalled windows and cant get into ubuntu again
<shygoly05g> i tried some tip on the net
<Seveas> shygoly05g, #ubuntu is the help channel
<shygoly05g> sorry
<licio> Seveas, ping
<Seveas> licio, pong
<licio> Seveas, pvt
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-03-02
<benje> tchonglikuan
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-03-04
<mruiz> jarufe, lguerra ?
<lguerra> lguerra presente
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:lguerra] :  Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 27 Feb 01:00 UTC: Ubuntu-cl | 1 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 2 Mar 02:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 3 Mar 21:00 UTC: Documentation Team | 7 Mar 12:00 UTC: Community Council | 15 Mar 20:00 UTC: Kubuntu
<mruiz> buena lguerra... te ganaste un poroto!
<lguerra> poroto?????? recuerda mi nacionalidad
<lguerra> mruiz, y jarufe?
<mruiz> jajaja
<mruiz> lguerra: jarufe tiene el movil apagado
<lguerra> tu diras entonces mruiz 
<mruiz> lguerra: creo que es recomendable posponer la reunin para que estemos todos y cambiemos puntos de vista
<lguerra> opino igual mruiz esperemos que los enfermos se alivien
<mruiz> lguerra: yo tambin estoy algo resfriado (con gripe)...
<lguerra> entonces compadre que se mejore
<mruiz> lguerra: voy a revisar la traduccin :)
<mruiz> lguerra: muchas gracias... nos vemos entonces
<lguerra> oks y me avisas para correjir
<mruiz> listo
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:robitaille] :  Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 28 Feb 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 1 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 2 Mar 02:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 3 Mar 21:00 UTC: Documentation Team | 7 Mar 12:00 UTC: Community Council | 15 Mar 20:00 UTC: Kubuntu
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-03-05
<nomed> hi all
<janimo> hi all 
<terrex> hi
<janimo> lets start
<Gloubiboulga> hi
<janimo> everybody look at the agenda https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DanieleFavara/ProposedAgenda
<janimo> during the meeting
<janimo> ok item 1)
<janimo> pkg selection
<janimo> define a deifnitive list
<janimo> the pdf viewer is going to be evince-gtk
<janimo> I reallyy have to package it now 0.5.1 release
<nomed> perfect
<janimo> burner: graveman (althoug it crashed last time)
<janimo> I tried butnign a CD
<janimo> some glib error
<nomed> janimo, the same ..
<janimo> Mail client: sylpheed-claws?
<nomed> +1
<janimo> I don;t know the upstream said he would get it into dapper
<janimo> I did not follow the progress of that
<janimo> nomed, so you think it is better than plain sylpheed?
<nomed> janimo, sylpheed-claws gtk2 ?
<janimo> sure
<nomed> yes
<janimo> ok
<janimo> since I use TB I cannot decide
<janimo> player: xfmedia?
<janimo> I know it has a klunky interface
<nomed> janimo, not sure about that
<janimo> woudl gxine or something else be better?
<nomed> janimo, i tested some ..
<janimo> it's advantage os that is upstream xfce stuff, but it's not very friendly
<nomed> and xine is the one that works better
<nomed> xine-ui
<janimo> yes, my expericence too
<janimo> or mplayer but that is too complicated I guess
<nomed> xfmedia crashes while trying to play audiocd
<nomed> janimo, i think mplayer is too complicated :)
<nomed> yes
<Gloubiboulga> xine-ui always worked fine for me
<janimo> ok, xine-ui should be good
<janimo> but have to see if it uses only libxine-main (the free codecs)
<ranf> hi
<janimo> hi
<janimo> archive manager, we don;t have one
<janimo> we may need to package xarchive{r} 
<nomed> yep
<janimo> since debian has ITP but no package last time Ilooked
<janimo> I haven;t used either so I could not say which is better (stable, small, fast other criteria)
<janimo> stable is preferable
<nomed> janimo, xarchive works fine ...
<nomed> but i normally use the shell ...
<janimo> is that the one in C or the one that calls out ot shell scripts?
<janimo> nomed but it's not packaged right?
<nomed> it calls out shell scripts
<nomed> in universe i think
<nomed> let me check
<janimo> could you investigate both and see which is better?
<janimo> we canot wait for debian with this
<nomed> k
<nomed> janimo, i think i pkged it :/
<janimo> so we have to decide on player and archiver 
<janimo> nomed, good
<nomed> xarchive is not in universe
<janimo> nomed, not it is not
<nomed> does that mean we can't use it ?
<janimo> we should package it and get it in as part of xubuntu dapper goal
<nomed> this UpstreamFreeze is driving me crazy :)
<nomed> k
<janimo> next, libraries
<janimo> all gnomeprint/canvas ones are ok
<nomed> perfect ...
<nomed> so abiword is usable as it is now ?
<janimo> abiword doe snotr dep on gnome
<janimo> gconf and gnome-keyring are brought in by gdm
<janimo> and update manager so we need to dep on them as well :(
<nomed> it was the second question :)
<janimo> when we get to write the doc: we wil definitely specify there is default and on CD install, just as with ubuntu
<nomed> janimo, we should write down a list of all the ubuntu pkges 
<nomed> i mean
<janimo> universe vs main: they are getting promoted, I will ping today about their status
<nomed> as ... update manager 
<janimo> nomed, well proposed packages is a mess
<janimo> we may need to clean that page
<nomed> janimo, i mean those ubuntu specific pkges
<janimo> what ubuntu specific ones?
<janimo> ?
<nomed> hwdb-client udpatemanager
<nomed> and so on
<janimo> Item 2) Is the aim to be as well-integrated as Ubuntu?
<janimo> update manager deps on gconf only so yes it will be in
<janimo> I may try to make that dep optional too but ni guarrantees
<janimo> hwdb deps on gnome too
<janimo> if gnome-python were split it would help solving both these
<janimo> probbaly that is what we'll try to do and persuade seb to take the patch
<janimo> 2) Is the aim to be as well-integrated as Ubuntu?
<janimo> would be nice but no time for dapper for sure
<janimo> network manager will be on the CD for people to try it out if they wish
<janimo> same for power manager and other gnome niceties which are small
<nomed> k
<janimo> ivman, installed by default but not started
<janimo> ok?
<janimo> or maybe only on the CD? as most people will not have heard of it so won;t need it
<nomed> yes
<janimo> maybe on the CD only to keep install as small as posiible
<nomed> janimo, well or installed and started ..
<nomed> on just on the install cd ..
<janimo> anyway will not be started or it will conflict with thunar
<janimo> right, so on the CD but not in default install
<nomed> k
<janimo> desktop icons, we'll porbbaly make them default in xfdekstop
<janimo> desktop notifications: I don';t know what could use them right now so probably not
<janimo> 3)artwork
<janimo> logo: I am very determined to use the mouse in circle
<nomed> +1
<janimo> but not sure about colors
<nomed> yes
<nomed> color scheme should be defined
<janimo> this is something everyone will have an opinion about
<janimo> hmm, but by whom? ubuntu-art, upstream xfce-art ?
<janimo> they shoudl al lhave a say in that
<janimo> even xfce upstream has not deicded on what to use fro 4.4
<nomed> janimo, that theme i proposed is the one on which an xfce artist is working
<janimo> icon theme: what is the status of tango with xfce?
<janimo> nomed, yes I saw that on xfce-dev
<nomed> janimo, it'll be just a little step
<nomed> different for icon-naming spec ..
<janimo> we may just use the rodent icon theme with the naming spec improvements they add until 4.4?
<janimo> tango I find nicer
<janimo> but maybe it's not complete enough
<janimo> gtk engine should preferably be one of the fast ones
<janimo> maybe not a cairo based on
<nomed> i think an artist should propose something for this
<janimo> do you have contacts with ubuntu art or xfce art by any chance?
<janimo> cause I don;t
<janimo> we have to invite these guys
<nomed> we can try to post a message on the list
<janimo> would be nice
<nomed> artnay, ping ?
<janimo> want to do it?
<nomed> janimo, we can ask directly to artnay if he is here ..
<janimo> ok
<nomed> maybe he can do that
<nomed> janimo, the problem here is that 
<nomed> first of all ...
<janimo> he;s over in ubuntu-artwork
<nomed> we should define a color palette
<janimo> this is something I know little about
<janimo> and a sensitive subject since it involves taste
<nomed> eehehe
<janimo> really the only input so far is do not look like kde
<janimo> although I am not sure why the logo looks like kde, it does not really
<nomed> janimo, graphite theme is neutral .....
<janimo> blue but different
<nomed> and it's ok even with blue ...
<janimo> I like blue too
<nomed> but xubuntu-artists are needed here :/
<janimo> but i quickly get used to any color theme
<janimo> I hope to get the first ISO out soon, and then in the announcement will ask for artists/docmuenters/translators
<janimo> need to ping Colin and see possible ETA for CD building
<nomed> that's would help very much
<nomed> to get more people in xubuntu ...
<janimo> you see even ubuntu gnome is undecided on art stuff and other things related to look and feel (logout dialog)
<nomed> janimo, their problem is different .. i think
<nomed> they've too much stuff :)
<janimo> well once we announce we will have too :)
<nomed> :)
<janimo> proposals for themes/colors/flames :)
<janimo> 4)Tasks
<janimo> so we could meet in a week from now, same hour?
<nomed> for me it's ok
<janimo> till then, I'll hope to have evince, CD build sorted out
<Gloubiboulga> I'll be there if my presence is needed :)
<janimo> could you look into xarchiver and xarcvhive and see which is better?
<janimo> Gloubiboulga: sure
<nomed> i can yes
<janimo> we need to decide on panel layout and menu
<nomed> janimo, yes
<janimo> I'll put something saner but not final next upload
<janimo> so the panels are stretched 
<nomed> janimo, i'll write a wiki page for that ..
<nomed> panel and menu
<janimo> ok thanks, mail the report of xarchiver to xubuntu-dev
<janimo> ok
<nomed> ok
<janimo> do you intend to package them too?
<nomed> janimo, i can pkge them ...
<janimo> if so put biinary debs or source packagesomewhere
<janimo> but if not it's ok just say which is stabler
<janimo> and generally better
<nomed> ok
<janimo> no need to package bith if we willonly use one
<janimo> both
<janimo> thanks
<janimo> anything else?
<nomed> janimo, no
<janimo> we finsihed undr an hour, good :)
<nomed> :)
<janimo> ok have a nice evening then :)
<Gloubiboulga> cu janimo 
<janimo> see you next week, with hopefully good progress done
<nomed> cu janimo Gloubiboulga 
<Gloubiboulga> bye nomed 
<janimo> by Gloubiboulga
<Vinze> Guess I"m late...
<janimo> Vinze, yes :)
<Vinze> Crap
<janimo> you can read the backlog
<Vinze> Anyway, I can do some translating...
<janimo> that would be great
<janimo> FR?
<Vinze> NL
<Vinze> I already help a bit on Xfce
<Vinze> I did Thunar
<janimo> good, we need translators
<janimo> will probably ask on xfce-i18n once we have an iso out
<Vinze> k
<Vinze> I'm on that so I guess I'll notive
<Vinze> notice
<LaserJock> mdz: did you happen to get an email from crimsun about me (Jordan Mantha)?
<mdz> no
<LaserJock> :/
<mjg59> Hi
<mdz> hi
<sistpoty> hi folks
<Vinze> Hey
<LaserJock> hi everybody
<Vinze> Hey
<sabdfl> evening all
<Vinze> hey
<mdz> I've sent an SMS to Keybuk
<mdz> only recurring items on the agenda today
<mdz> we'll begin; hopefully Keybuk will join us
<sabdfl> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
<mdz> I think all of the pending membership applications for ubuntu-core-dev are invalid
<mjg59> mdz: Matches what I thought
<dholbach> mdz: I had no answer back from all of them.
<sabdfl> yup
<mdz> none of them are MOTUs or had prior contact with the TB about their applications
<mdz> so I'll decline them all with an appropriate comment
<sabdfl> i'll do that while you guys get stated on MOTU
<mdz> ok, thanks
<mdz> LaserJock: you're here?
* LaserJock is Jordan Mantha
<mdz> glad you could make it at the scheduled time
<LaserJock> well, I'm ditching a RL meeting to be here so hopefully I won't get in too much trouble
<LaserJock> ;-)
<mdz> daring
<mdz> LaserJock: I have your wiki page up, but would you like to summarize in a few sentences what it's all about for you?
<LaserJock> I got started working for MOTU because I had a problem with a package and I wanted to fix
<LaserJock> it
<LaserJock> and Ubuntu was the first distro I  truly felt a part of the community and wanted to give back
<LaserJock> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2006-February/015279.html is an interview dholbach did of me for the MOTU Report
<sabdfl> LaserJock: any suggestions for ways we can boost Utnubu?
<LaserJock> sabdfl: I think the biggest thing is getting new MOTU wannabes involved and making it easy to get in touch with people
<sabdfl> ok
<LaserJock> most of the old timers know what they are doing or are more "set" in their ways
<sabdfl> great wiki page, btw, very well laid out
<mdz> LaserJock: can you tell us a bit about MOTUScience and your goals for it?
<sabdfl> LaserJock: would you be interested in an Ubuntu derivative specifically for university use?
<LaserJock> mdz: My main goal is to make sure that Ubuntu keeps up with Debian, and where possible provide a pathway for interested scientists to contribute
<mdz> LaserJock: in what ways can we make Ubuntu more useful to the science community?
<LaserJock> sabdfl: I'm more interested in making Ubuntu a good desktop for scientific use rather than a derivative, but Edubuntu is promising
<LaserJock> mdz: providing free/open source packages as alternatives to traditional, expensive, proprietary apps
<sabdfl> do you see the scientific community as different from the university one?
<LaserJock> see w.u.c/UbuntuScientists for example
<ogra_> yes, i hopw to work closer with the MOTUScience team for dapper+1, we want to get other apps in and also provide a more marture set of apps 
<ogra_> *hope
<mdz> LaserJock: are there many plausible alternatives to proprietary scientific apps which are not yet available in Ubuntu?
<mjg59> LaserJock: How do you think we can effectively market Ubuntu to scientists?
<LaserJock> sabdfl: in some ways. the scientific community often lives inside the university, but is more geared towards research instead of education (in the traditional sense)
<mdz> <Keybuk-SMS> Hotel.  No Internet Access.
<LaserJock> mdz: yes, some. Kyral has been working on FlowDesigner for MOTUScience.
<LaserJock> mjg59: By being a great desktop while also being able to provide scientific packages that are up-to-date, bug free ;-), and getting new packages in
<sabdfl> mdz: is keybuk traveling for you?
<mdz> sabdfl: yes
<LaserJock> I am particularly interested in people using Ubuntu for writing dissertations and publications, data analysis,etc.
<LaserJock> but a guy in the department yesterday had me get him an Ubuntu disk to put on his computational cluster because it worked better than SuSE
<mdz> LaserJock: apart from improving Ubuntu to make it appealing to scientists, how can we let them know that it exists and might be useful to them?
<mjg59> LaserJock: As a final year PhD student myself, I'm very interested in ways that I can get more people in the community running Ubuntu :)
<sabdfl> ok, +1 for LaserJock from me
<mdz> LaserJock: who has been sponsoring your uploads so far?
<LaserJock> mdz: I think there is a pretty solid scientific base in Ubuntu, I think marketing Ubuntu as being able to run your science apps + having a good desktop experience
* sistpoty sponsored one or two uploads... and reviewed a package on revu
<LaserJock> mjg59: by making it easy for students/researchers to get there work done and not getting in the way
<lucas> being a MOTU, I was actually surprised to learn that LaserJock wasn't a MOTU yet. He really did a lot of excellent work inside MOTU, and he has been around for longer than I have. I very strongly recommend him for MOTU.
<sistpoty> LaserJock has been around for a very long time, and his packaging work is really good :)
<mdz> dholbach: any comments on LaserJock?
<LaserJock> mdz: crimsun and \sh did a lot of sponsoring for me but again, crimsun was unable to make the meeting (I asked him to email dholbach or mdz) and \sh is sorta away it seems
<dholbach> after there was not a real agreement on him in the last TB meeting I had a look at some of his patches/uploads and they were ok for me
<mdz> thanks
<LaserJock> Riddell also uploaded my first package from scratch (plotdrop)
<mdz> Riddell: around?
<Riddell> yes, plotdrop was in good shape when I reviewed it, which I think was after a few revisions on revu, so I advocate LaserJock as much as I can from 1 package 
<LaserJock> I think the 2 big issues as far as MOTUScience goes is licensing (getting upstreams to have DFSG free licenses) and bugs (lots of science apps are poorly maintained)
<mdz> mjg59: any further questions?
<LaserJock> I hope by organizing interested parties around science related apps we can help solve those issues
<dholbach> those uploads weren't hardcore-deep-down-fixes, but what I like about LaserJock is that he tries to organize the MOTU world a bit and I think he'll be an asset for the last-weeks-fixing-up-dappers-universe - and I like his honesty, I don't think he would upload packages without being really sure (or having asked others)
<mjg59> Nope, I think the combination of this and last time is good for me
<mdz> ok
<mdz> +1 from me based on peer recommendations and history of working within the community
<mjg59> +1 for working on stuff I'd be doing if I had more time
<mdz> ;-)
<mdz> LaserJock: congratulations and welcome aboard
<dholbach> congratulations LaserJock
<sistpoty> congrats LaserJock! finally :)
<lucas> :-) very good choice to get him in :-)
<mdz> I think we had a couple of folks from the last meeting who were deferred due to lack of time
<LaserJock> thanks TB and thanks all the MOTUs and wannabes
<sabdfl> well done LaserJock
<mdz> is anyone here in that category?
<ogra> yay LaserJock !!
<sivang> LaserJock: congrets!!
<mdz> OK, if not, is there anyone else present who is applying for ubuntu-dev/MOTU membership/
<mdz> s,/,?/
<Tonio_> congrats LaserJock :)
<jpatrick> congrats LaserJock :)
<mdz> Ivailo Ivanov?
<mdz> freeflying?
<jpatrick> sleeping
<mdz> if not, then we're finished
<mdz> with memberships
<mdz> is there any other business?
<ogra> looks like we're done ...
<mdz> hearing none, adjourned
<dholbach> that must have been one of the quickest TB meetings :)
<mdz> thanks, everyone
<mjg59> Cool
<mdz> mjg59: do you have a few minutes to send a summary to -devel-announce? should be a short one
<mdz> mjg59: and I have to finish writing the last one
<ogra> dholbach, we had quicker ones :) .... but that was really fast ... its carnival in 50% of the world :)
* mvo stops lurking and goes for carnival
<ogra> heh
<sabdfl> night all
<dolson> bye sabdfl
<dholbach> night sabdfl
<sabdfl> must mean that ubuntu dev's like to samba...
<ogra> ciao sabdfl 
<sivang> mjg59: when you have a minute, we have an emacs problem we need to fix under xgl ;-)
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-02-26
<sid> @schedule New_York
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/New_York: 26 Feb 18:00: Community Council | 27 Feb 15:00: Technical Board | 28 Feb 13:00: Accessibility Team | 28 Feb 15:00: Edubuntu | 28 Feb 17:00: Xubuntu | 01 Mar 10:00: Community Question Time in #ubuntu-meeting
<yharrow> @schedule New_York
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/New_York: 26 Feb 18:00: Community Council | 27 Feb 15:00: Technical Board | 28 Feb 13:00: Accessibility Team | 28 Feb 15:00: Edubuntu | 28 Feb 17:00: Xubuntu | 01 Mar 10:00: Community Question Time in #ubuntu-meeting
<lfittl> @schedule Vienna
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Vienna: 27 Feb 00:00: Community Council | 27 Feb 21:00: Technical Board | 28 Feb 19:00: Accessibility Team | 28 Feb 21:00: Edubuntu | 28 Feb 23:00: Xubuntu | 01 Mar 16:00: Community Question Time in #ubuntu-meeting
<alex_muntada> @schedule andorra
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Andorra: 27 Feb 00:00: Community Council | 27 Feb 21:00: Technical Board | 28 Feb 19:00: Accessibility Team | 28 Feb 21:00: Edubuntu | 28 Feb 23:00: Xubuntu | 01 Mar 16:00: Community Question Time in #ubuntu-meeting
<fernando> @schedule Sao_Paulo
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Sao_Paulo: 26 Feb 20:00: Community Council | 27 Feb 17:00: Technical Board | 28 Feb 15:00: Accessibility Team | 28 Feb 17:00: Edubuntu | 28 Feb 19:00: Xubuntu | 01 Mar 12:00: Community Question Time in #ubuntu-meeting
<stgraber> @schedule Zurich
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Zurich: 27 Feb 00:00: Community Council | 27 Feb 21:00: Technical Board | 28 Feb 19:00: Accessibility Team | 28 Feb 21:00: Edubuntu | 28 Feb 23:00: Xubuntu | 01 Mar 16:00: Community Question Time in #ubuntu-meeting
<cbx33> @schedule london
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/London: 26 Feb 23:00: Community Council | 27 Feb 20:00: Technical Board | 28 Feb 18:00: Accessibility Team | 28 Feb 20:00: Edubuntu | 28 Feb 22:00: Xubuntu | 01 Mar 15:00: Community Question Time in #ubuntu-meeting
<s|g> re
<poningru> @schedule EST
<Ubugtu> Schedule for EST: 26 Feb 18:00: Community Council | 27 Feb 15:00: Technical Board | 28 Feb 13:00: Accessibility Team | 28 Feb 15:00: Edubuntu | 28 Feb 17:00: Xubuntu | 01 Mar 10:00: Community Question Time in #ubuntu-meeting
<Hobbsee> @schedule sydney
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 27 Feb 10:00: Community Council | 28 Feb 07:00: Technical Board | 01 Mar 05:00: Accessibility Team | 01 Mar 07:00: Edubuntu | 01 Mar 09:00: Xubuntu | 02 Mar 02:00: Community Question Time in #ubuntu-meeting
<dfarning> @schedule chicago
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 26 Feb 17:00: Community Council | 27 Feb 14:00: Technical Board | 28 Feb 12:00: Accessibility Team | 28 Feb 14:00: Edubuntu | 28 Feb 16:00: Xubuntu | 01 Mar 09:00: Community Question Time in #ubuntu-meeting
<pochu> @now cet
<Ubugtu> Current time in CET: February 26 2007, 23:26:44 - Next meeting: Community Council in 33 minutes
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Community Council | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 27 Feb 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 28 Feb 18:00 UTC: Accessibility Team | 28 Feb 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 28 Feb 22:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 01 Mar 15:00 UTC: Community Question Time in #ubuntu-meeting
<gnomefreak> already
* ausimage thinks it is early
<gnomefreak> its 10 minutes early for some reason
<gnomefreak> maybe  a warning
<ausimage> gnomefreak: I have seen act up like this before ;)
<mc44> gnomefreak: it always does it 10 minutes early
<ausimage> ahh
* gnomefreak always misses it
<MikeB-> afternoon all
<Vorian> hi MikeB- :)
<SD-Plissken> Hello MikeB-
<Vorian> hey SD-Plissken :)
<ausimage> hi Vorian
<SD-Plissken> Hello Vorian.
<Vorian> hey ausimage :)
<Vorian> good luck today ;)
<ausimage> long time no hear Vorian
<s|g> hi all
<MikeB-> hey Vorian and SD-plissken
<ausimage> yeah thanks Vorian... you cheering???
* Vorian has been all over the eastern us lately
<stgraber> hi there
<Vorian> ausimage, Heck yes i'll cheer for you :)
<ausimage> YEAH YEAH !!!
<Vorian> :)
<ausimage> Vorian: did see my pimp daddy of a page ??? ;)
<beuno> a few of us will be cheering for ausimage it seems!
<Vorian> personal?
<ausimage> yeah my wiki profile.... almost beats nixternal's ;)
* Vorian shamelessly pushes cheering for the Ohio team too :)
* Vorian checks
<Vorian> ausimage, thats beautiful :)
* PWill cheers for the Ohio LoCo too
* theidiotthatisme cheers for Ohio LoCo
* hackle577 cheers for the Ohio LoCo as well
* jacobmp92 cheers for ohio loco (abit early?)
* Vorian cracks the whip
* jgedeon cheers for ohio loco
* boredandblogging cheers
<SD-Plissken> Vorian you got a strong Ohio following...
<alex_muntada> ausimage: your LP link in the CommunityCouncilAgenda is wrong... it should say https://launchpad.net/~tjaustinbardo instead of https://launchpad.net/~ausimage
<lyceu1> cheers for ohio loco
<Vorian> lol
<gnomefreak> Seveas: you around?
* ausimage believes Vorian and the Ohio crew are cool
<jacobmp92> heh heh.. and the meeting hasn't even started yet
<ausimage> alex_muntada: take your pick my full name goes to the ausimage
<ausimage> I can put a redirect on the wiki for tjaustinbaro though
<Vorian> hey PriceChild :)
<ausimage> oops sorry about that just too excited :D
<SD-Plissken> Hello PriceChild.
<ausimage> alex_muntada: did you fix it??
* alex_muntada fixing ausimage data in CommunityCouncilAgenda...
<pochu> hey all!
<PriceChild> Hey Vorian & SD-Plissken
<ausimage> thank alex_muntada O
<sabdfl> evening all
<ausimage> sabdfl: hey
<alex_muntada> ausimage: done :)
<Seeker`> lo
<MikeB-> sabdfl: evening
<stgraber> sabdfl: evening
* ausimage waits for sabdfl blog entry :)
<jgedeon> sabdfl: Evening.
<Vorian> hi sabdfl
<theidiotthatisme> Howdy sabdfl
<SD-Plissken> Hello sabdfl.
* meatballhat tips hat
<PWill> hey sabdfl
<sabdfl> so who's running the show?
<mc44> you :)
<sabdfl> any other CC members here?
<gnomefreak> evening sabdfl
<gnomefreak> sabdfl: who are they?
<sabdfl> Seveas: agenda is looking great these days
<sabdfl> crisp and clean!
<gnomefreak> still the same members? because elmo mako and seveas seem to be away
<pochu> gnomefreak: https://launchpad.net/~communitycouncil
<gnomefreak> ah jes good :)
<gnomefreak> hi elmo
<pochu> same :)
<sabdfl> we have the LP folks working on a poll system that we can use for the expansion of the CC
<sabdfl> hi elmo
<elmo> hi, sorry I'm late
<gnomefreak> pochu: nope cjwatso^n had his last half meeting last meeting i think
<pochu> gnomefreak: oh, then the LP team is out-of-date :)
<MikeB-> The Ohio team is here, but have not seen Belinda of the Ubuntu Women Project
<dinda> I'm here - dinda
<sabdfl> colin has been very patient waiting for me to sort out the nominations + voting but i don't expect him to be here
<pleia2> O
<dinda> so is Pleia2
<sabdfl> hey dinda
<pleia2> I'm here too
<sabdfl> should we get things going?
<SD-Plissken> sure
<elmo> is mako around?
<gnomefreak> sabdfl: if you think 2 is good were ready
<MikeB-> dinda: whoops:)
<sabdfl> /info mako
<sabdfl> erk
<PriceChild> /info mako
<PriceChild> whoops
<sabdfl> edzachary
<sabdfl> i've msg'd him, he'll join us if he can
<Moniker42> so much for not making any mistakes PriceChild ;)
<sabdfl> elmo, happy to go with just us?
<elmo> sabdfl: *shrug* if you like, sure
<gnomefreak> PriceChild: try /ns info mako
<dinda> I think we got almost everything for the UW project cleared up now
<gnomefreak> hi elkbuntu
<dinda> Good to hear that Vid is still around, if on the mend
<pleia2> yes, the absense had us pretty concerned
<sabdfl> many of our groups have gone through a lurch like that
<sabdfl> where we realise we need to expand the team watching things
<sabdfl> glad this went smoothly
<sabdfl> and hope vidya's on the mend
<sabdfl> dinda: you said there were some loose ends?
<dinda> we're still in need of more admins and perhaps some channel ops
<dinda> final thing was to ask if the UW wiki can be linked ot the main wiki
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-02-27
<dinda> right now it's separate and I'm afraid we are duplicating effort in some areas
<elmo> dinda: there's no way that I'm aware of to have searches span two distinct moin wikis
<dinda> Elkbuntu mentioned that perhaps it can be linked like the kubuntu or edubuntu ones
<dinda> ah
<elmo> dinda: the kubuntu and edubuntu wikis are in fact the ubuntu wiki with a different theme
<fernando> hey all
<pochu> fernando: hi! :)
<fernando> hi pochu =)
<dinda> hmmm, then we may pursue merging the UW one back into the main wiki. . .
<sabdfl> would be perfectly possible to do the same for the U-W wiki
<sabdfl> but dinda the downside is a really really noisy RecentChanges page, iirc
<sabdfl> being in the main wiki is best, imo, if language isn't an issue
<dinda> pleia2 - any thoughts?
<pleia2> I think we should work on moving back to the main wiki
<sabdfl> in terms of additional admins, you will need to cultivate that interest internally
<sabdfl> is there anything specific the CC can help with?
<pleia2> I don't think so, we're coming along with that, just not quite there yet
<gnomefreak> dinda: if you join #ubuntu-ops or talk to seveas or nalioth im sure the /ops/ part of it can be worked out
<sabdfl> ok. well done on negotiating the latest bump in the road, i think you are on your way now
<dinda> yip -we came b/c of the note in the agenda - thought we were done last time ;)
<sabdfl> ah. way I readit, i thought you'd PUT the note in the agenda!
<sabdfl> np
<sabdfl> should we move on?
<dinda> thanks
<sabdfl> is stephen stalcuphere?
<Vorian> sabdfl, hello
<Vorian> you ready for the ohio team?
<Vorian> Hello from the ohio team!  Here is our application page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OhioTeam/ApprovalApplication. You can find all our links on our wiki home page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OhioTeam.
<sabdfl> hey Vorian
<sabdfl> starting an underground movement over there?
<Vorian> :)
<Vorian> doing our best.
<sabdfl> :-)
<sabdfl> what are buckeyes?
<skippy> nuts from a Buckeye tree
<Vorian> ohio state university
<skippy> or, chocolate covered peanut butter balls.  yummy!
<meatballhat> the chocolate + PB versions are better ;-)
<SD-Plissken> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohio_Buckeye
<sabdfl> that's funny, skippy is a kind of peanut butter where i come from
<Vorian> lol
<sabdfl> tagline: yippy for skippy!
<gnomefreak> here too
<skippy> same here, sabdfl.  I'm _extra_ smooth.  ;)
<PWill> haha
<sabdfl> i think skippy is a bot
<sabdfl> lurks in various channels
<sabdfl> listening for nut references
<sabdfl> very cunning
<skippy> I've been discovered!
<sabdfl> ok, ohio, seriously
<SD-Plissken> wait a sec sabdfl is a peanut butter and jelly fan.. no way..
<Vorian> I'll repost the links :)
<sabdfl> totally
<MikeB-> its Peanut Butter Jelly Time
<Vorian> our application page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OhioTeam/ApprovalApplication. You can find all our links on our wiki home page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OhioTeam.
<Moniker42> MikeB-, noooo
* beuno cheers for the ohio team, Vorian and meatballhat have put a lot of work into it
<Vorian> we would also like sabdfl to consider visiting the Ohio Linuxfest this September :)
<skippy> formal invitation is forthcoming from the appropriate channels.
<sabdfl> it's become quite a legendary event
<elkbuntu> i have to go now, but *cheer* for dinda for when you get to her :)
* ausimage was waiting for him to invite sabdfl
<sabdfl> september's not good for me though! but separate issue
<Brady_M_at_work> Vorian: sorry for getting here late.
<sabdfl> vorian, how spread out is the ohio team?
<PWill> skippy and I are both on the Ohio Linux Fest team, and others on the team have also thought that would be a good idea, sabdfl
<sabdfl> is it mostly columbus, or is it quite spread across the state?
<fernando> good night all (college time)
<Vorian> 4 metro areas, no more than an hour and a half apart each
<sabdfl> night fernando
<sabdfl> is it a very big state?
<Vorian> sabdfl, I live in a rural area of Ohio
<Vorian> Not that big
<MikeB-> PWill: is it still connected to the Ham Radio Fest?
<jacobmp92> sabdfl: not too big
<ausimage> the top is too wide, though ;)
<Vorian> Very populace however.
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> we'll i' +1 on the application, i can see the team is very well organised
<skippy> MikeB-, Ohio Linux Fest is not connected to the HamFest.
<elmo> yeah, +1 from me too - impressive growth too, to be nearly 90 members in what 3-4 months?
<Vorian> thanks sabdfl :)
<Vorian> thanks elmo :)
<MikeB->  the Loco app looks great, and the Ohio team has been very active on the forums
<Zelut> Ohio is setting a big example for the other US Teams, even us established teams!
<Vorian> elmo, yes, ubuntuforums have been a great engine for our growth
* Zelut gives Vorian a playful glare for making the other teams look so small :)
<theidiotthatisme> Ubuntuforums allowed me to discover the Ohio Team, and so far I've been loving it :-)
<MikeB-> theidiotthatisme: great to hear, Woot!
<sabdfl> yes, it's interesting how the ohio team seems to make very good use of the forums
<sabdfl> vorian, did you start out in the community in the forums?
<Vorian> sabdfl, launchpad was first
<Vorian> the forums shortly after our formation
<sabdfl> nice
<meatballhat> I'm hesitant to cheer too much, having just been member-ized, but the Ohio LoCo Team is easily the most positive volunteer organization I've ever been a part of :D
<PWill> sabdfl: Within about a month, we got http://ohio.ubuntu-us.org/
<sabdfl> Vorian: what's your top LP gripe?
<jacobmp92> the forums were the biggest source of mebers, including me :)
<Vorian> sabdfl, its a bit slow sometimes
<sabdfl> hmm... we're trying to figure out how to avoid having to use ssl all the time
<Vorian> other than that, i wish it were open source :)
<sabdfl> are you in the beta group?
<Vorian> sabdfl, not now... :)
<PriceChild> I could help you apply for the launchpad beta later Vorian.
<Vorian> ty PriceChild :)
<sabdfl> cool
<sabdfl> ok, well done ohio!
<Vorian> I would love to help
<sabdfl> next?
* pochu congratulates the Ohio Team :)
<meatballhat> yay!
<sabdfl> 5 member candidates
<Vorian> thanks sabdfl!
* ausimage congrats to Vorian and Ohio
<nixternal> Ohio! </drew carey voice>
<sabdfl> should we take it from the top?
<sabdfl> stgraber: ping, you're up!
<stgraber> yep, thank you
<stgraber> Good evening everyone. I'm Stphane Graber, I use Linux for 6-7 years (I can't remember precisely) and Ubuntu since Warty Warthog. I'm a student in the CPLN in Neuchtel. I'm currently testing Feisty's betas and reporting bugs when I can, I'm also testing a bit the Launchpad beta. I recently started learning python (I'm more a perl or PHP developer) and did a small Pastebin client that's now in Feisty's universe (pastebinit).
* Zelut laughs at nixternal 
<SD-Plissken> Congrats Vorian and the Ohio team.
<stgraber> I'm also involved in local activities which includes helping new linux users in general (as we are some Debian/Ubuntu users we usually propose Ubuntu as a first distribution) and the Phoenix project (more information on my wiki page).
<stgraber> My wiki page is : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/stgraber
<stgraber> As I think I'm now quite involved in pushing Ubuntu to a top distribution I'd really like to become a Ubuntu Member.
<sabdfl> stgraber: i think i'm just around the corner from you now
<sabdfl> nice wiki page
<stgraber> thank you
<MikeB-> stgraber: very nice wiki
<stgraber> I copied a little bit nixternal's one :)
<sabdfl> stgraber: have you proposed the swiss-french patch to cjwatson so it will be in feisty?
<nixternal> haha
<mako> sorry i'm late everyone
<nixternal> oi mako
<sabdfl> hey mako
<stgraber> sabdfl: this keyboard issue is fixed in feisty
<stgraber> hi mako
<sabdfl> mako: we're on the first of 5 membership applications
<stgraber> sabdfl: In fact I proposed the patch but it was too late for Edgy and then it's fixed in Feisty
<gnomefreak> hi mako
<sabdfl> i'm+1 on stgraber - he's been interested since early days and is quite an active participate: https://bugs.beta.launchpad.net/~stgraber/+subscribedbugs
<sabdfl> (drop the beta for those folks not in the beta program)
<stgraber> thank you sabdfl
<elmo> +1
* mako is catching up still a bit
<stgraber> mako: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/stgraber if you want to have a look
<sabdfl> stgraber: snowing over there too?
<stgraber> no, that's quite a problem in fact
<stgraber> not enough snow this winter
<mako> stgraber: that's what i'm looking at
<sabdfl> stgraber: https://bugs.beta.launchpad.net/banshee/+bug/62842
<mako> alright, +1 from me too
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 62842 in rhythmbox "daap with itunes 7 doesn't work correctly" [Low,Confirmed] 
<sabdfl> i see you're interested in quite a few bugs that are linked to upstreams
<sabdfl> do you have any ideas about how we can improve the way we work with upstreams?
<stgraber> Having a responsable for each package or group of package who will do the communication part with upstream
<stgraber> but maybe someone else than the packager or maintainer
<sabdfl> right - someone primarily to "build a bridge" between the communities
<sabdfl> i agree very strongly
<stgraber> yes, that's the idea
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> welcome aboard!
* pochu hugs stgraber :)
<MikeB-> stgraber: an Dev-Upstream Team, good idea
<stgraber> thank you very much everyone
<sabdfl> pochu: spotlight on you!
<pochu> well :)
<MikeB-> stgraber: grats
<pochu> Hello everybody :) I'm Emilio Pozuelo, aka pochu. This is my wiki page ---> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EmilioPozuelo . As you can see there, I'm a bugfighter :) I like to triage bugs, and am learning packaging, so I fix some (not very difficult) bugs. Also, I'm an ISO testing team member, and I'm helping heno with the team.
<stgraber> MikeB-: thx
<pochu> I'm also a SpanishTeam admin (but just since one week or so). We are having a little problems in the team, but jono is helping us, so I hope we can solve them the best way for the team :) And a Spanish Translators member (which was one of my first contributions to the Ubuntu community, because I didn't know too much about bug triaging and packaging).
<sabdfl> pochu: do the spanish ubuntu + kubuntu translation teams work well together?
<pochu> sabdfl: yeah, the team was owned by carlos till today, when he has step down to the oldest member of the team
<MikeB-> atoponce: afternoon Aaron
<atoponce> MikeB-: hello. :)
<pochu> sabdfl: there is just one spanish translators team -> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-l10n-es
<seb128> I can confirm that pochu is doing some good job on bug triage
<sabdfl> pochu: 58 bugs in compiz! just as well we ducked on compiz-by-default, you think?
<gnomefreak> he shows up often in my email from bugs :)
<sabdfl> https://bugs.beta.launchpad.net/~pochu/+assignedbugs?field.searchtext=&orderby=-importance&field.status%3Alist=Fix+Released&field.owner=&field.status_upstream=&field.status_upstream-empty-marker=1&field.omit_dupes.used=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_patch.used=&field.tag=upload&search=Search
* Adri2000 agrees with seb128 :)
<sabdfl> erk
<sabdfl> horribl url!
<sabdfl> unnecessarily so
<pochu> hehe
<sabdfl> nonetheless, looks like very good work
<sabdfl> pochu, are you en-route to becoming motu too?
<Brady_M_at_work> Night sabdfl
<seb128> sabdfl: look at the subscribed list rather
<sabdfl> is development and bug triage your primary focus?
<sabdfl> night Brady_M_at_work
<pochu> sabdfl: yeah, I would like, but first I want to learn more packaging, since I'm still a little newbie :)
<pochu> sabdfl: yes, they are :)
<sabdfl> ok, cool for +1 for membership from me, and look forward to seeing you in launchpad.net/~motu
<mako> yes, absoultely, it looks great.. +1 from me too
<pochu> sabdfl: that link is about bugs I've fixed with an upload :)
<elmo> +1
<mako> wonderful
<gnomefreak> pochu: congrats
<mako> pochu: welcome
<mako> dinda: you're next
<MikeB-> pochu: congrats
<pochu> thanks everybody :)
<sabdfl> welcome aboard, pochu!
<dinda> Im Belinda/Dinda Lopez from Galveston, Texas.  Ive been following the project for over a year become increasingly active over the past six months. I went to the UDS Paris event to see if the project to investigate if the project had some real legs under it and try to find out what this whole open source thing is about. My wiki is: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BelindaLopez
<mako> pochu: thanks for your work on ubuntu so far :)
* pochu hugs the channel :)
<DktrKranz> we were late :(
<seb128> pochu: congrat
<DktrKranz> anyway, congrats pochu :)
<beuno> congrats pochu!
<dinda> My main interests were in the areas of training and education but that soon led to other events, more research and falling into the Ubuntu Womens project.  Ive also helped organize the Houston Loco Team and am trying to help with the Texas Team bringing together the Dallas, Houston and Austin folks under one umbrella.
<sabdfl> i'll vouch for dinda, who has made a great contribution in a number of areas, most recently U-W
<dinda> Thanks sabdfl!
<gnomefreak> <off topic> but i like the look of ubun2 ;)
<dinda> others left cheers on my wiki page
<pleia2> yes, dinda has done extensive work with U-W these past few months, we have really appreciated her efforts
<mako> dinda: so we saw you recently on opening up the ubuntu women team
<mako> dinda: how ha that been going?
<dinda> It's going really well, lots of new folks interested in helping
<dinda> and several leading new projects
<pleia2> dinda: many of which you're spearheading
<dinda> we're working on a membership drive around International Women's Day on March 8
<pleia2> which is excellent :)
<mako> great, i love the testimonials on your wiki page :)
<dinda> the pilot event was great - but cold!
<mako> wonderful :)
<sabdfl> dinda: what's Sakai?
<dinda> so I hope Spain will have much better weather :)
<dinda> Sakai is like Moodle
<elmo> dinda: it will
<alex_muntada> pochu: enhorabuena!
<dinda> several Universities are developing it open source
<sabdfl> elmo's been down there to "network" ;-)
<sabdfl> (i.e. soak up the sun, i think ;-))
<pochu> alex_muntada: gracias ^_^
<dinda> there is never enuff sun. . .or sangria  ;)
<Moniker42> bah >.< tip people - don't install vista. not even out of curiosity...
<sabdfl> very positive +1 for me for dinda
<elmo> yeah, likewise
<theidiotthatisme> Moniker: I've already persuaded many off of getting Vista
<Moniker42> whoops, wrong channel....
<sabdfl> Moniker42: not really ;-)
<Moniker42> theidiotthatisme, i think the complete incompatability with all my peripherals and sound card is enough to put me off
<mako> yes, +1 from for dinda
<dinda> thanks all!
<pleia2> congrats dinda!
<mako> it's been nice to see you so many times in so many places aro8und the world :)
<MikeB-> dinda: congrats
<atoponce> dinda: congrats
<gnomefreak> dinda: congrats
<dinda> yip - I see you folks more than my family :)
<pochu> dinda: congrats :)
<mako> and i'm excited about the progress on u-w and looking forward to your day in march
<stgraber> dinda: grats
<Vorian> congrats dinda :)
<dinda> we'll be getting the word out now
<mako> i'll try to drop by any of the irc events
<sabdfl> welcome, dinda!
<dinda> Thanks Mark
<dinda> I'm really looking forward to the next few months - I've already learned so much
<sabdfl> i suspect you have much to teach too
<sabdfl> ausimage: you're up!
<ausimage> I am Jeremy Austin-Bardo and an advocate of Ubuntu and Linux. I am the admin for ubuntu-scribes and a supportive member of the NewYorkTeam loco. I also give feedback on bugs and features in Ubuntu and Ubuntu distro+1.
<ausimage> Read my wiki page, http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ausimage  for details.
<sabdfl> tell us about ubuntu-scribes?
<atoponce> i'm here to cheer for ausimage. the scribes team is a great idea, and his involvement helps centralize irc meeting minutes through MootBot, which is already in this channel.  cool stuff!  cool guy!
* PriceChild would love a small demo of mootboot
<ausimage> Ahh the Scribes.. We are here to help enhance and augment the meeting process mostly in IRC
<gnomefreak> we (ubuntu-mozillateam) are using the bot for meetins :)
<mako> ausimage: did we meet last week at ubucon?
<ausimage> no
<mako> ah, too bad
<ausimage> could not get there unfortunately
* Moniker42 would just like to see ausimage's wiki but can't because internet explorer crashes and firefox has a mysterious _bouncing_ bug. my own fault for using vista...
<gnomefreak> PriceChild: join here on monday march 6th at 18:00UTC and it will be in use
<ausimage> You will have to come Upstate mako
<mako> ausimage: i live in boston, it might even be closer :)
<sabdfl> what's MootBot?
<Seeker`_> sabdfl: The bot that I have written to try to make recording of meetings easier
<ausimage> Ah Mootbot is Seeker`_ contribution to ScribesTeam
<mako> i have to say, the scribes project is coolest projects in ubuntu i've run across in a while :)
<Seeker`_> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScribesTeam/MootBot
<gnomefreak> sabdfl: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScribesTeam/MootBot
<gnomefreak> oops late
<ausimage> he AndrewWilliams have really made it great
<mako> as someone who had scribe duties as part of my job for a while, i can appreciate the time and energy that goes into it :)
<dinda> scribes is awesome
<ausimage> I know ...
* Vorian cheers for ausimage. He has done a ton of work that no one will ever know about, but all will appreciate.  He is an unsung hero.
<Seeker`_> ausimage is very hard working, and he has put a lot of time and effort into starting this team
<Seeker`_> and he is always coming up with new ideas
<ausimage> Yeah I am now involving myself in NewYorkTeam as well
<dinda> since Seveas isn't here - Is anyone doing the LP account updates?
<elmo> I can do that
<mako> elmo: thanks :)
<sabdfl> oh, that bot rocks!
<gnomefreak> it is pretty cool
<atoponce> yeah. the features are really really cool
<Moniker42> voting :)
<sabdfl> 1 from me for ausimage. this sort of work is phenomenal "glue" to help communities stay together even as they grow
<ausimage> say sabdfl how is blog post for the ScribesTeam coming
<sabdfl> sorry, that was a +1 not just a plain 1 :-)
<ausimage> sure not more than that ??? ;)
<sabdfl> ah, i promised to blog about your work, didn't i? can you mail me some url's to examples of the work?
<ausimage> ah sure your addie??
<Moniker42> you can get +2s? ;)
* ausimage thought is was worth a shot ;)
* ausimage thinks there should be a 'pimp my profile' contest :)
* Moniker42 looks for sabdfl's blog, wonders why the first link for "sabdfl" on google is to the wikipedia page on Guido van Rossum...
<sabdfl> mark@ubuntu.com will reach me
<ausimage> I will put on the to do list :)
<Monk-e> Moniker42: because Guido is my first name! ^^ ;)
* Seeker`_ wonders if he should apply for membership next time round
* ausimage thinks so
<elmo> +1
* Vorian cheers for Seeker`_ 
<ausimage> thanks elmo
<mako> yes, this all looks fantastic
<mako> i learned a lot about a couple teams i'd only heard about too
<mako> ausimage: thanks for all your work
<mako> +1 from me
<Vorian> congrats ausimage! :)
<ausimage> YEAH YEAH YEAH :D
<sabdfl> welcome aboard!
<Seeker`_> well done ausimage
<mako> yes welcome!
<ausimage> thank you all
<irvin> \o/
<sabdfl> SO!
<sabdfl> s|g: you're on
<MikeB-> ausimage: congrats
* pochu hugs ausimage :-)
<s|g> I'm a sysadmin and web developer from Hungary. I've been using OSS for a long time now (first distro was Debian Boo). I've tried many linux distros (Slackware, Gentoo, SuSE etc.), and BSDs, and since Warty do I use Ubuntu, and I'm very satisfied with it so far.
<s|g> I'm translator of many OSS projects (gimp, openoffice.org, icewm, drupal etc), and now I'm the leader of the Hungarian Ubuntu Translation Team.
* beuno cheers for ausimage!  congrats!
<ausimage> Anyone interested in Scribes drop by
<s|g> I'm founder and contributor of many Hungarian OSS communities (gimp.hu, drupal.hu, Hungarian BSD Association). I spoke at Open Source conferences in Hungary about various topics (Hungarian Ubuntu Conference, Linux Conference, Fsf Roadshow).
<s|g> In the future I'd like to contribute more: helping in community building and developing and translating and writing Ubuntu documentation and HOWTOs
<s|g> The person here to support me is Szilveszter Farkas (phanatic).
<s|g> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GaborSuveg
<elmo> s|g: are the hungarian ubuntu translation team using launchpad/rosetta?
<phanatic> s|g has been a valuable member of the hungarian community for more than a year now... and his contributions to foss in hungary is pretty significant
<s|g> elmo: yes.
<mako> that's kind of funny that you brought a phanatic to support you
<phanatic> mako: :))
<sabdfl> phanatical support!
<sabdfl> sounds like rackspace
<s|g> ;)
<mako> sabdfl: in fact :)
<sabdfl> s|g: is your primary focus advocacy?
<phanatic> he's really one of our best men :)
<elmo> s|g: ok - just noticing that you haven't been using rosetta yourself much lately/yet... (not that it's in any way a requirement of course, just interesting to me that someone so  involved in translations hasn't used it much so far)
<elmo> mako: phanboy was busy
<s|g> sabdfl: yes
<s|g> elmo: yes. im love better locale translating, but all is committed into ubuntu
<mako> the website forums, etc is is impressive
<mako> s|g: which parts can you take credit for?
<sabdfl> there seems to be a really strong community in Hungary - any particular driver for that?
<s|g> mako: first i/we want to build the ubuntu.hu
<phanatic> sabdfl: you mean a person by 'driver'?
<mako> s|g: what came second?
<mako> i've seen a lot of great stuff on the webiste, i'm just tryin to figure out what your role was
<s|g> help within forum
<phanatic> now he's responsible for our drupal-based site (which is under heavy development)
<mako> s|g: do you have a user page within the forum?
<s|g> mako: we reorganize .hu website, clean all howto, wiki etc.
<mako> ah, ok
<mako> where is that site?
<phanatic> http://barack.fsf.hu:11080/ -- only the theme is in its place
<s|g> mako: can i give you access.
<mako> phanatic: it looks nice
<mako> s|g: i don't know, can you?
<phanatic> mako: actually it needs some tricks
<s|g> mako: this is the tableless ubuntu skin
<mako> yes
<s|g> mako: with this url you cant login into drupal. you need put line into host file ;)
<mako> ah, ok
<mako> that's a bit much
<mako> you can tell me
<phanatic> because the dns entry still doesn't point to this site, and cookies screw up :)
<phanatic> so it's a bit complicated as of now
<mako> i'm just trying to figure out which parts you've contributed to the website so far
<s|g> we finished with virtual machine in this weekend
<mako> you say that a bunch of your work has been on ubuntu.hu
<mako> and just looking to see examples of things you've done on ubuntu .hu to date
<s|g> drupal part, skining
<mako> it doesn't have to be the new stuff
<mako> have you written content for hte existing site? there is lots of stuff up there
<s|g> we would integrate the i18n part into new site
<mako> have you participated in the forums?
<mako> can you post a link to a page about your account activity in the forums?
<s|g> in forums in hungarian yes
<mako> it's ok if it's in hungarian
<mako> i'd just like to see
<sabdfl> s|g: it's normal for us to want to be able to judge the extent of someone's contribution, and the time over which they have been a participant
<mako> s|g: usually people put links not only to their teams, but to example of their work on the team
<sabdfl> it's clear to me that you've made a huge FLOSS contribution in .hu and elsewhere
<sabdfl> i'm also trying trying to see the specific ubuntu work you've contributed
<s|g> organize ubuntu conferece
<s|g> making ubuntu flyer to this conference
<sabdfl> i did hear good things about that conf
<s|g> speak from graphics application on this conference
<mako> sure, so did i
<s|g> and speak it in a local tv
<s|g> http://www.flickr.com/photos/gsuveg/279014007/
<s|g> it is the flyer
<s|g> http://www.flickr.com/photos/gsuveg/279014120/ page 2
<sabdfl> nice logo!
* Moniker42 headbutts vista and IE
<mako> yes, that's the type of documentation that i'm looking for
<mako> s|g: i think i would be most comfortable if you took some time between now and the next meeting ot make a complete list of those types of contributions and to support them with links like this
<mako> s|g: i have every reason to believe that you've made significant and sustained contributions to ubuntu, but your wiki page isn't linking to documentation to support that yet (imho)
<s|g> mako: ok
<mako> s|g: you should email with jono and have him let you konw what he thinks before the next meeting
<mako> phanatic: you don't need to come back, your support and testimonial should be enough
<sabdfl> mako: you are such a bad cop! but i concur :-)
<s|g> mako: ok
<mako> s|g: i'm sure that once you get the site online and everything, it will be really easy
<phanatic> mako: okay, thanks
<sabdfl> s|g: please come back once that wiki page is clearer
<mako> s|g: sorry we didn't get to do it today :(
<mako> s|g: next time thought! :)
<sabdfl> i've no doubt too that you are making a great contribution
<mako>  did we just fall off the end of the agenda?
<pochu> I think yes :)
<mako> alright then
<mako> i'm late for another meeting so i'll jet if that's alright
<mako> sorry again that i was late..
<sabdfl> thanks mako!
<pochu> mako: np :)
<mako> was there a decision you need a vote from me on at te beginning?
<sabdfl> and thanks to everyone here
<mako> if so, someone needs to send me a log so i can look over it
<sabdfl> ohio team got +1'd
* mako nods
<sabdfl> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OhioTeam
<mako> i doubt i'll find that controversial :)
<sabdfl> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OhioTeam/ApprovalApplication
<ausimage> mako MeetingLoges
<Moniker42> what's the best language to learn to make a contribution to the ubuntu project? python?
<mako> ausimage: yes yes :)
<sabdfl> Moniker42: or C, yes
<mako> Vorian: was here from ohio?
<sabdfl> very much so :-)
<Monk-e> sabdfl: does C++ count?
<Vorian> hi mako
<sabdfl> Monk-e: of course!
<mako> Vorian: what does buckeye mean?
<mako> i've always wondered that
<sabdfl> Moniker42: also, any friendly language, for advocacy and support ;-)
<Vorian> its a nut from the buckeye tree
<sabdfl> mako: read the logs :-)
<Vorian> but the mascot for ohio state university :)
<sabdfl> you'll enjoy that part
<Vorian> lol
<Moniker42> sabdfl, i have a rather large summer with nothing to do between the end of my high school exams and the start of my CS course at uni =)
<sabdfl> ok, thanks all and good night
<Moniker42> might learn a language...
<Vorian> sabdfl, I applied for the launchpad beta
<mako> sabdfl: great :)
<mako> the page looks really great
<dinda> thanks to the CC for all your help!
<sabdfl> Vorian: do you solemnly swear not to post screenshots of beta stuff?
<ausimage> Pricey: how do you in this beta launchpad?
<mako> i'll read the logs and get to you but i don't see how i'll disagree
<Vorian> sabdfl, so say we all
<Vorian> i swear.
<Moniker42> he crossed his fingers!
<Moniker42> i saw it!
<Pricey> ausimage, You want to apply?
<pochu> Moniker42: hehe :)
<mako> alright, later all!
<mako> i'm out
<pochu> mako: bye!
<ausimage> Yeah.. would love some meeting features in it ;)
* Pricey is now "the launchpad beta guy" lol
<sabdfl> Vorian: approved
<Vorian> thanks sabdfl :)
<Vorian> I'll do my best.
<sabdfl> night all
<Vorian> night
<Moniker42> Pricey, guess what... the laptop crashed..... again. ;)
<Pricey> ausimage, --> pm :)
<ausimage> the log wil be up any minute
<ausimage> K pricey
<MikeB-> night all
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 27 Feb 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 28 Feb 18:00 UTC: Accessibility Team | 28 Feb 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 28 Feb 22:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 01 Mar 15:00 UTC: Community Question Time in #ubuntu-meeting | 01 Mar 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<phanatic> @schedule Budapest
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Budapest: 27 Feb 21:00: Technical Board | 28 Feb 19:00: Accessibility Team | 28 Feb 21:00: Edubuntu | 28 Feb 23:00: Xubuntu | 01 Mar 16:00: Community Question Time in #ubuntu-meeting | 01 Mar 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<Lure> @schedule Ljubljana
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Ljubljana: 27 Feb 21:00: Technical Board | 28 Feb 19:00: Accessibility Team | 28 Feb 21:00: Edubuntu | 28 Feb 23:00: Xubuntu | 01 Mar 16:00: Community Question Time in #ubuntu-meeting | 01 Mar 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<sid> @schedule New_York
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/New_York: 27 Feb 15:00: Technical Board | 28 Feb 13:00: Accessibility Team | 28 Feb 15:00: Edubuntu | 28 Feb 17:00: Xubuntu | 01 Mar 10:00: Community Question Time in #ubuntu-meeting | 01 Mar 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<tonyyarusso> gotta give some credit to anyone who can pronounce Ljubljana, I figure.
<evand> @schedule New_York
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/New_York: 27 Feb 15:00: Technical Board | 28 Feb 13:00: Accessibility Team | 28 Feb 15:00: Edubuntu | 28 Feb 17:00: Xubuntu | 01 Mar 10:00: Community Question Time in #ubuntu-meeting | 01 Mar 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Technical Board | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 28 Feb 18:00 UTC: Accessibility Team | 28 Feb 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 28 Feb 22:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 01 Mar 15:00 UTC: Community Question Time in #ubuntu-meeting | 01 Mar 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<mdz> Keybuk: ping
<Keybuk> yo
<mdz> hi mjg59
<mdz> let's begin
<mjg59> Evening
<mdz> I updated the agenda to reflect the reorganization of Launchpad teams which was carried out by the new MOTU council
<mdz> (thanks sistpoty)
<mdz> I believe we have one applicant for -core-dev
<mdz> asac: are you here?
<mdz> asac's application was deferred from the last meeting because his sponsor wasn't present, and he hadn't had much experience in Ubuntu yet
<mdz> ok, he doesn't seem to be present
<mjg59> Hm.
<mdz> is there a MOTU council representative here?
* ajmitch is here
<Keybuk> but he has such a wonderful level of contribution to Fooix the Wonder Toaster!
<ogra> Fooix the Wonder Toaster ?
<mdz> ajmitch: are there any MOTU applications to be considered by the tech board?
<Keybuk> ogra: LP beta joke
<ajmitch> mdz: we haven't had any applications come to us yet, though we're still waiting on a mailing list to handle them
<ogra> Keybuk, ah ...
<mdz> ajmitch: IIRC we referred some applicants to the Council a couple of meetings ago
<mdz> but the council wasn't quite operational yet
<mdz> so please check back with them now that you're ready to process them
<mdz> ajmitch: feel free to forward them by email to technical-board@ so that they don't block until the next TB meeting
<mdz> the first and only discussion item is one I added
<mdz> Technical Board nominations
<ajmitch> sure
<sabdfl> actually, it would be great to make that std operating procedure
<sabdfl> so those applications don't block onmeetings
<sabdfl> unless an application raises a question the TB feels should be discussed here
<ajmitch> I think that was what was originally proposed
<sabdfl> it should be possible to just +1 it and be done
<mdz> yes, we agreed that
<mdz> just reconfirming
<mdz> so, tech board nominations.  sabdfl, I think this ball is in your court.  how can we help to move it forward?
<sabdfl> my apologies
<sabdfl> if we want to just nominate and have confirmation votes, we are good to go
<mdz> I'm happy to assist with the legwork if that helps
<sabdfl> if we want more of a runoff, then we need some testing of an appropriate voting stuff in lp
<sabdfl> let's just do the easy thing
<mdz> I think that nominate+confirm is appropriate
<sabdfl> ok, it makes for less exciting voting though :-)
<sabdfl> but it's fine for this round
<sabdfl> we've delayed enough
<mdz> it's also what's written in the governance documents ;-)
<mdz> if you would like to send me your nominees, I can set up the polls and announce the vote
<mdz> sabdfl: sound ok?
<sabdfl> super
<sabdfl> thanks mdz
<mdz> great
<mjg59> Sounds good to me
<mjg59> asac: Still not around?
<sabdfl> mdz: i think we have enough wiggle room in the governance docs to have a runoff
<sabdfl> it's still nominate+confirm
<sabdfl> just a "not everyone gets confirmed" twist
<sabdfl> if you think we should make that possibility explicit, we should do it sooner rather than later
<sabdfl> discuss at CC
<mdz> I'll ping asac and remind him to follow up on his application
<mdz> I expect pitti and cjwatson will have feedback on his work so far
<mdz> in fact, if they're here, I'd be happy to consider him in absentia
<ajmitch> could ubuntu-dev please be set to a restricted team now?
<mdz> ajmitch: oh, good idea
<mjg59> Pitti doesn't seem to be around
<mjg59> cjwatson: Ping?
<mdz> ajmitch: I'll also update the documentation on UbuntuDevelopment
<ajmitch> thanks
<ajmitch> & we'll chase up those proposed members on ubuntu-dev
<mdz> cjwatson was around a minute ago, but seems to be no longer
<mdz> that's all for developer applications.  is there any other business?
<sabdfl> ajmitch: really happy to see you guys kicking into action!
<mjg59> None from me
<Keybuk> just a confirmation; do existing TB members need to re-apply for nomination?
<ajmitch> it's good to be organised & kicking universe into shape :)
<sabdfl> Keybuk: i don't think so
<mdz> Keybuk: I wouldn't expect so
<mdz> this is meant to be a fairly stable group
<sabdfl> mdz: mostly
<sabdfl> mjg59: incidentally, DO you disappear when turned 90 degrees?
<mjg59> sabdfl: Depends on how good your eyes are
<sabdfl> passed the latest test, but i could see the nurse was being nice about it
<mdz> sabdfl: stable in composition, not necessarily in individual psychology
<sabdfl> that's what teams are for - makes for a more interesting whiskey collection
<sabdfl> ok, thanks all
<mdz> yep, sounds like we're done
<sabdfl> cheers all!
<mdz> actions: mdz to summarize meeting for UWN, mdz to remind asac et al about his core-dev application
<mdz> actions: sabdfl to email nominations to mdz
<mdz> mdz to create polls, announce confirmation vote
<ogra> he left in time :)
<mdz> anything else?
<mdz> ok, adjourned. thanks all
<mdz> (hmm, UWN seems to be dead)
<mdz> I'll just mail ubuntu-devel instead
<tonyyarusso> mdz: Ya - that's being looked into.
<tonyyarusso> Most of the big-time UWN helpers are busy or on vacation, so it stalled.
<asac> i am on topic?
<Mithrandir> you're slightly late. :-)
<asac> didn't know :) ... next time i guess.
<asac> mdz: mjg59 sorry .... didn't know i was on topic already
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 28 Feb 18:00 UTC: Accessibility Team | 28 Feb 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 28 Feb 22:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 01 Mar 15:00 UTC: Community Question Time in #ubuntu-meeting | 01 Mar 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 05 Mar 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-02-28
<pochu> @schedule madrid
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Madrid: 28 Feb 19:00: Accessibility Team | 28 Feb 21:00: Edubuntu | 28 Feb 23:00: Xubuntu | 01 Mar 16:00: Community Question Time in #ubuntu-meeting | 01 Mar 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 05 Mar 17:00: Kernel Team
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-meeting.log
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Accessibility Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 28 Feb 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 28 Feb 22:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 01 Mar 15:00 UTC: Community Question Time in #ubuntu-meeting | 01 Mar 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 05 Mar 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team
<heno> Hello everyone
<heno> I think we are still waiting for a few people
<dholbach> Hello everybody
<heno> Mike Pedersen (Orca team and Sun) emailed me saying he would join
<dholbach> yeah, he mailed me too - I mailed the Karlsruhe Accessibility list too
<heno> Anyone from the Karlsruhe or Rugen team here today?
* heno really needs to learn some German now
<dholbach> hehe :-)
<heno> OK, perhaps we'll start with introductions
<heno> I'm Henrik Omma, Ubuntu accessibility coordinator
<dholbach> hi mikepedersen
<mikepedersen> Hi, sorry to be late.
<heno> mikepedersen: just doing introductions
<heno> I haven't made a real agenda, but we are focusing on Feisty bugs
<heno> see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Testing/Bugs
<dholbach> I'm Daniel Holbach, I mainly work on GNOME and with lots of teams of the Development Community, the Accessibility team among them.
<mikepedersen> I'm the orca usability engineer at Sun
<heno> I think it's a bit too early for TheMuso (in .au), but we can perhaps catch him a bit later
<heno> He maintains a few of the packages in question
<mikepedersen> Braille still has me filled with much sadness.
<mikepedersen> It still doesn't talk to orca at all.
<heno> are your issues listed on the wiki page above?
<heno> we really should get one or two braille displays for our dev team
<mikepedersen> they are listed in a couple of the bugs which I believe are listed.  Today's firefox is giving me trouble so I don't have the page up right now
<heno> I can only test it with the braille monitor
<halim61> Which version of brlltty are using?
<mikepedersen> Does Luke have a display?
<heno> yes
<dholbach> halim61: 3.7.2
<mikepedersen> 3.7.2 is what is in feisty.
<dholbach> heno: maybe the guys doing certification should have one.
<heno> dholbach: or Scott, who can actually read braille
<dholbach> Oh, I didn't know that.
<krister> Hi folks, sorry i'm late
<dholbach> hi krister
<dholbach> halim61: is there a newer version you think we should have?
<heno> mikepedersen: how can we try to track this further?
<mikepedersen> Does Luke have a display?
<heno> is it a brltty->orca problem?
<heno> mikepedersen: yes he does
<heno> not sure what model
<dholbach> krister: we did introtudctions and heno pointed us to a list of most important bugs he compiled: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Testing/Bugs
<krister> I have a braille voyager that's powered by usb, does that help?
<mikepedersen> the same configureation worked fine on edgy I think it is a side effect of the current problem of USB displays trying to start twice aat boot.
<heno> krister: yes, are you running feisty?
<heno> ugh, the link to that bug is wrong
<krister> Yes, and my display also started twice. I solved that by simply removing the brltty script, because it turned out there was another brltty-dist script that did the same.
<dholbach> krister: which script was that?
<mikepedersen> If I remove the brltty script in /etc/init.d brltty keeps trying to start over and over again.
<mikepedersen> Henrik, this is the bug you closed a few weeks ago that really isn't fully fixed.
<mikepedersen> sorry I don't have the number in front of me.
<krister> In my system there was one brltty script and a brltty-dist script both in /etc/init.d i removed the one called brltty, since it was an old script and now my display starts only once or so i think.
<heno> https://bugs.beta.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/brltty/+bug/83939
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 83939 in brltty "brltty starts twice on boot" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] 
<heno> That's still open
<heno> I'll change the status though
<heno> ok, original bug 80892
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 80892 in linux-source-2.6.20 "USB braille display no longer starts with brltty" [Medium,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/80892
<krister> I don't know, but if there are people here having braille displays, you could check if there are more scripts in /etc/init.d that are called something with "brltty".
<dholbach> krister: that suggests that a newly installed brltty should work nicely (with the new configuration file), so i understand correctly?
<mikepedersen> in init.d I only have the brltty script
<krister> The new configuration file?
<heno> That might actually be missing
<heno> when updating I saw this error:
<heno> cp: cannot stat '/etc/udev/rules.d/85-brltty.rules'
<heno> mvo, mvo_ ^ :)
<heno> update bug
<dholbach> krister: you said there was a brltty.dist and brltty file - that situation happens, when dpkg wants to install a new version of a conffile, but you made local changes - I interpreted "removed the one called brltty, since it was an old script" as that situation
<krister> Yup, i did and that solved the problem.
<dholbach> ok, good.
<krister> Should one perhaps rename brltty-dist to brltty?
<dholbach> brltty-dist only exists, if you do local changes to that file (before the update) and then not let dpkg overwrite your old file with the new one
<mikepedersen> Krister, are you able to get Orca to talk to brlapi?
<hittsjunk> I had orca using brltty last week with no problems.
<krister> I'm an idiot when it comes to programming and programming terms, in other words sorry, i didn't understand the question.:-)
<mikepedersen> WHen you run orca do you get braille?
<hittsjunk> yes
<krister> Loud and clear. i have braille as well.
<mikepedersen> are you using an USB display
<hittsjunk> I use a serial display.
<krister> Yes sir.
<heno> mikepedersen: do you have an upgrade or a fresh feisty install in this case? (I think you said Herd 4)
<mikepedersen> This laptop has been upgraded several times over the last month.  It is now current as of today.
<mikepedersen> I'm currently downloading a new live cd though.
<dholbach> It'd be interesting to know which Accessibility bugs you see as big showstoppers at the moment.
<mikepedersen> Krister, an interesting test would be to put back the brltty script, let brltty try to start twice and see if orca still shows braille.  This would confirm what I'm seeing with orca.
<heno> mikepedersen: can we follow this up later with Luke? Possibly by phone or skype?
<mikepedersen> sure,
<mikepedersen> send me a note off-line and we can set something up.
<halim61> Does the current feisty gnomespeech include viavoice support?
<hittsjunk> The problems with at-spi 1.17.1 are causing me to most trouble now.
<dholbach> halim61: sorry for my ignorance, but is viavoice one of the proprietary options?
<heno> dholbach: yes
<mikepedersen> Kenny, a fix for this was checked in to svn last night.
<dholbach> halim61: it'll be hard to get support for that in :-(
<halim61> There is a dummy package available to support opensource apps.
<heno> we've not really looked at building with support for those yet
<dholbach> and at-spi 1.17.2 should hit the archive (after the freeze probably)
<hittsjunk> I saw that haven't upgraded yet.  They relased 1.17.2 today.
<dholbach> yeah, I updated the package
<heno> has anyone tested the braille setup script?
<dholbach> halim61: oh - could you mail a link to that to  ubuntu-accessibility-devel@lists.ubuntu.com ?
<heno> is that working at this point and is it at all useful?
<mikepedersen> I haven't tried it.  SHould it work with a bluetooth display?
<hittsjunk> Will it work with a serial display?
<heno> should in theory work with both
<krister> mikepedersen: i will try what you suggested and see if braille starts again or not with Orca.
<heno> but you'll need to know what keys to press first
<halim61> Yes I can but I must first subcribe to the list.
<heno> might be worth reading the script in fact
<mikepedersen> and those keys are?
<dholbach> halim61: I can moderate the mail, if you don't want to be on the list - no problem.
<heno> "Device type (b/s/u/x): "
<heno> where b is bluetooth, s is serial, u is usb
<heno> (x is exit)
<mikepedersen> does the bluetooth display have to be paired first or will this be part of the setup?
<heno> see /sbin/brltty-settup on a feisty system
<heno> mikepedersen: that should be done in the setup
<heno> id does: /lib/brltty/brltty.sh -b auto -d "bluetooth:$b_address"
<mikepedersen> OK I just tried this I just need to enter the ID of the device I think
<heno> right
<heno> Anyway, this is very bleeding edge and could use some testing
<mikepedersen> I'll test it today.
<heno> We are trying to move the boundaries and sometimes we break stuff :)
<heno> We shipped a broken GOK by default for two releases :-/
<krister> Can i put in something for the wish list or is it off-topic?
<heno> krister: go ahead
<halim61> dholbach: you have mail
<dholbach> halim61: gracias
<krister> I'm somewhat of a fanatic when it comes to freedom of choice, that's why i am so interested in Linux. Now Evo is a very good email client, but i want to know if something could be done with Sylpheed-claws-gtk2? It seems like everything exept the folder- and message list tables are accessible...
<krister> I can navigate in the program, but can't read msgs and lists.
<halim61> hmm I am waiting for thunderbird support
<heno> hm, we will have to focus on a few apps, which probably means evo and thunderbird
<hittsjunk> I came late, sorry if this has already been discussed.  Are there plans for Firefox3 packages?
<heno> krister: for sylpheed you should probably contact upstream directly
<krister> Upstream?
<dholbach> halim61: thanks again - I passed it on
<heno> hittsjunk: I've spoken to the mozilla team about it
<heno> krister: the authors of sylpheed
<halim61> DHolbach: thanks.
<heno> hittsjunk: no clear date yet though
<robert_____> custom forms would be great if it worked with FK better :-/
<robert_____> (sorry guys, wrong window)
<heno> the focus is inevitably on Feisty (= Firefox2) ATM
<hittsjunk> Firefox 2 is only usable with firevox
<krister> heno: will do. Just wondered if this was something that the orca guys should check. Not so good at knowing whom to contact when. Still anewbie after 3 yrs of Linux.:-)
<heno> krister: you can ask on the Orca list, but my guess is that it's a sylpheed problem
<mikepedersen> Krister, we looked at it quite a while ago.  If you could get the developers to test with access tools this would show them a lot of the problems.
<heno> have you tried running at-poke with it?
<heno> exactly
<mikepedersen> Blind people can't run atpoke because it is by design not an accessible application
<heno> which is outrageous
<hittsjunk> Exerciser is supposed to be an accessible replacement.  I haven't tried it yet.
<heno> there is a new alternative out now though
* heno looks it up
<mikepedersen> it does sound pretty good though.
<mikepedersen> it is not a stand-alone app yet though.
<heno> http://live.gnome.org/Accerciser
<heno> dholbach: any chance we could make a .deb of that? ^
<dholbach> I'll take a look at it.
<heno> doesn't even need to be in the repos for feisty
<heno> just somewhere people can grab it and test
<dholbach> better to have it in the repos :)
<heno> I spend 20-30 minutes trying to build it but gave up
<mikepedersen> it hasn't yet been extracted into its own package yet I think it is still just part of LSR.
<heno> dholbach: of course, yes :)
<mikepedersen> I could be wrong about that though I'm just going by the release note.
<heno> mikepedersen: ok, but we do have LSR in Universe right?
<mikepedersen> think so
<heno> yeah, found it
<heno> launchpad drives me mad sometimes going in circles :-[
<heno> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lsr
<mikepedersen> it'll be nicer whhen it is its own package though so we can just run it when orca is running.
<heno> mikepedersen: is it possible to run orca and lsr at the same time?
<hittsjunk> No, youcan only run one at a time.
<mikepedersen> I'm pretty sure you'd get lots and lots of conflicts with the keyuboard, speech, and braille
<mikepedersen> remember though that orca already provides several ways to print out the application hierarchy.
<mikepedersen> many people find this pretty useful for debugging an app as well.  I do however think that the accsersiser way looks pretty cool
<mikepedersen> Henrik, do you have much more you want to cover?
<krister> Is navigating the calendar in Evo considered a bug? It can be somewhat tricky finding ones way around in the different views and yet the calendar is said to be accessible.
<heno> mikepedersen: no, I think we just need to follow up on some individual issues
<mikepedersen> the only view I know of that really dosn't work to well is the month view.
<mikepedersen> feel free to contact me about the braille stuff.
<heno> krister: if it doesn't work as expected then that's a bug. If it's expected not to be accessible then that is *also* a bug
<krister> Ok, i have tried the week view and the month view and i think i've got an incling of a hint on what is wrong though i'm no hacker.
<heno> please file those, at least on stuff in main
<mikepedersen> if you want, email me first and I can try to explain the evolution navigation model as it is a bit strange.
<heno> krister: try filing a bug in the gnome bug tracker
<heno> so the actual evo authors will read it
<heno> We should generally be filing more accessibility bugs, and tagging them
<krister> Ok i'll email you or could you please send me a little note about it to krister@kristersplace.ws?
<heno> so we can quantify what the issues are
<mikepedersen> OK
<heno> ok, thanks everyone!
<mikepedersen> bye for now
<heno> I'm going to take a break now. This is my third straight meeting in a row ...
<heno> (two previously by phone)
<dholbach> i have accerciser nearly packaged :)
<dholbach> I'll let it go through the approval process (as we're in freeze atm) and let you know once it's there :)
<jonsd> quit
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Edubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 28 Feb 22:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 01 Mar 15:00 UTC: Community Question Time in #ubuntu-meeting | 01 Mar 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 05 Mar 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team
<cbx33> w00t
* cbx33 is the first one here
<ajmitch> cbx33: if the meeting is happening
<tsmithe> cbx33, glad to hear edubuntu went relatively well and was accepted. (re blog post). i just wish my school would do the same
<cbx33> tsmithe, heh
<LaserJock> hmm, I was waiting for the ogra count-down
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> he said .... back after dinner for meeting
* ajmitch should probably leave for work
<ajmitch> hi ogra
<LaserJock> he's back!
<ogra> sorry, i'm late, my system crashed ...
<ogra> gimme a minute
<ogra> so it seems will isnt here either today
<ogra> RichEd is travelling and currently i london
<ogra> so he wont be here either
<ogra> before i start with the tech update i need to maken an announcement, rodrigo left the team and i'm currently working on the jobdscription for the position
<cbx33> did he leave canonical completely?
<ogra> yes
<cbx33> or just edubuntu?
<ogra> he had personal issues
<LaserJock> :(
<LaserJock> that's sad
<ogra> since he didnt deliver anything i'm currently heavily working on a moodle1.7 package
<cbx33> yikes
<cbx33> anything we can do?
<ogra> not really, help CD testing
<cbx33> ok will do
<cbx33> sorry ogra
<ogra> anyway ... tech ...
<ajmitch> ouch :(
<ogra> i did the final spit of the CD stuff today
<ogra> *split indeed :)
<cbx33> hehe
<ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/current/
<ogra> take a look and dance :)
* cbx33 is dancing
<cbx33> whilst singing "Don;t feel like dancing"
<ogra> (the other areches are not built currently but look similar)
<ogra> so we have 120M spare on the server CD
<ogra> in an argreement with heno the add-on CD will be filled up with winFoss as soon as its filled with langpacks
<Mithrandir> ogra: I'm currently building herd 5 RC, fyi.
<ogra> yay
<Mithrandir> (which is why the current page might look a bit weird; I removed ppc from non-ports, etc, today)
<ogra> guys ^^^^ thats the one you can start testing with once its built
<cbx33> ok
<ogra> apart from that i have not much on the tech side, i feel like i'm only travelling and building CDs atm ... every time i return home Mithrandir changes the topic of #ubuntu-devel to announce a freze :)
<LaserJock> ok, so is there any plans to fill up space on the 1st CD?
<LaserJock> or are we leaving that for future development
<cbx33> ogra, I don;t mean to nag - but what are we doing with tcm?
<ogra> so getting someone into rodrigos position to help CD building is a tad urgent since my travelling seems not to get less
<cbx33> makes sense
<cbx33> what kinda skills are required for CD building?
<ogra> LaserJock, all i can  put on it ... and then langpacks ..
<ogra> if i dont find anything and still have space i'll move stuff back from the add-on CD
<LaserJock> did qcad make it on there?
<ogra> oh, while testing, please also try to test the desktop CDs, they changed a lot to have the edu stuff which is not in -desktop on them ... i want to be sure it all works
<ogra> LaserJock, after the herd release
<cbx33> ogra, I'll try that out tomorrow if I can
<ogra> cbx33, i'll put as much effort as i can into tcm as soon as the Cd is done ...
<cbx33> ok....I'm not nagging honestly :p
<LaserJock> is that it for tech?
<ogra> do nag, please
<cbx33> ogra, ok
<cbx33> WORK ON TCM :p
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Edubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 28 Feb 22:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 01 Mar 15:00 UTC: Community Question Time in #ubuntu-meeting | 01 Mar 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 05 Mar 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 06 Mar 18:00 UTC: Mozilla Team
<ogra> its helpfu to get a reminder from time to time, even though TCM is written in big letters on my whiteboard now :)
<ogra> (about 30cm high letters )
<LaserJock> :-)
<ogra> beyod tech, RichEd were on a nice get together of european educators last week ...
<ogra> and since there was a barcamp around the corner we even held a talk there :)
<ogra> that made it into the local newspaper :) http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/oli-ancona-0207.jpg
<ogra> :D
<cbx33> nice
<cbx33> :)
* LaserJock has no idea what it says, but it looks cool
<ogra> and elkbuntu wrote a very nice article http://www.linux.com/article.pl?sid=07/02/20/197251
<ogra> LaserJock, likewise *g*
<ogra> there was a guy with a videocam who also did an 20min interview with us he'll put it on his blog once its cut
<cbx33> awesome
<ogra> thats it from my side for today
<LaserJock> Well, I managed to get rasmol and qcad into Main
<LaserJock> some apps on my list aren't so easy
<ogra> rasmol is on the add-on CD already
<LaserJock> but next I'm going to try octave
<LaserJock> which needs lam, mpich, hdf5, gnuplot from Universe
<cbx33> heh
<ogra> qcad came in right after a seed change and waits for tenext one (i'm not shuffling the seeds while in freeze)
<LaserJock> so that would be 5 MIRs to get octave
<ogra> s/tenext/the next/
<ogra> gnuplot alone would already be awesome
<LaserJock> yes, I agree
<LaserJock> gnuplot + emacs where my first science tools in Linux
<ogra> if you talk to ian or pitti abou the MIRs try to prioritize it and its deps
<ogra> *shudder* emacs
<ogra> we have space for it now :)
<LaserJock> so far pitti has been simply awesome about them
<ogra> and we can re-add the full vim
<LaserJock> another space eater I could try is stellarium
<cbx33> just don't try celestia
<ogra> if you have any suggestions for the first CD please make them ... we have all of main available to improve the under the hood stuff
<ogra> doesnt stellarium have an awful amount of deps ?
<LaserJock> it could, but I think it might be OK
<LaserJock> cbx33: got your script handy?
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> you can grab it from my repo :p
<LaserJock> well, I'm just not on a fiesty machine ATM
<cbx33> it's edgy repo
<LaserJock> I'm on OS X
<cbx33> ahh
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> um
<LaserJock> anyway, I think I'll do octave and edubuntu-docs first
<LaserJock> ogra: it looks like all the deps are in Main to me
<ogra> ah, k
<ogra> is the new edubuntu-docs package up already ?
<LaserJock> it will be today
<ogra> i cant remember seeing it hitting universe
<ogra> ah, k
<LaserJock> nixternal and I have been thrashing it out
<LaserJock> making sure it plays well with ubuntu-docs
<ogra> you guys rock :)
<LaserJock> I'll upload it to Universe today
<ogra> great :)
<LaserJock> and go over the MIR and poke pitti when I have a chance
<cbx33> looks like the book chapter moving forward too
<cbx33> LaserJock, what pacakge you want me to check?
<LaserJock> stellarium
<ogra> stellarium
<heno> Sorry to but in (but I saw my nick mentioned above). Here is a screen grab of the winfoss browser, wip: http://people.ubuntu.com/~henrik/images/edubuntu-winfoss-wip.png
<cbx33> stellarium: Not in main
<cbx33> stellarium-data: Not in main
<cbx33> looks like all it's deps are in main
<ogra> heno, sexy
<cbx33> don't quote me on it....but it's looking good
<LaserJock> so maybe I'll try to do stellarium quickly too
<LaserJock> depends on bugginess
<cbx33> yeh
<LaserJock> I know bddebian and I have done a bit of work on it
<heno> yeah, I opted for Celesetia over Stelarium since its in main
<ogra> sounds like a good candidate though
<ogra> oh, wait, celestia is in main ?
<LaserJock> I enjoyed testing it out when I was fixing a bug
<heno> we have it on the OpenCD
<cbx33> ogra, no it's not
<cbx33> it;s not in main is it?
<ogra> ah, k
<heno> ah, my bad
<cbx33> it has like 1,000,000 deps that are not in main
<ogra> ogra@edubuntu:~$ apt-cache madison celestia
<ogra>   celestia | 1.3.2-4ubuntu1 | http://de.archive.ubuntu.com feisty/universe Packages
<ogra>   celestia | 1.4.1-0ubuntu2 | http://archive.ubuntu.com feisty/universe Sources
<cbx33> hehe
<LaserJock> heno: how much space does that take?
<LaserJock> the Edubuntu OpenCD
<heno> they are each 17-18 mb
<cbx33> (feisty-ch)pete@misato:~$ ./404main celestia | wc
<cbx33>      23      92     580
<heno> oh, about 147mb total ATM
<LaserJock> cool
<heno> I would upload a tarball, but it still has lots of broken links and missing text
<ogra> amd64 currently uses 209M ... i386 likewise
<ogra> so we're at 360M ...
<ogra> still only 50%
<ogra> hmm, sad pitti is gone already
<LaserJock> stellarium is something like 18MB
<ogra> i'd like to know the langpack size in total for all langpacks
<ogra> i wonder if its more than 100M
<LaserJock> I think octave will be about the same size as stellarium
<LaserJock> well, I guess maybe more with all the deps
<ogra> sounds good
<LaserJock> I happy with it
<LaserJock> I was just afraid we'd have 701 MB total between the 2 CDs ;-)
<LaserJock> there's no harm in leaving room to grow
<ogra> right
<ogra> hmm, we didnt really stick to the agenda today
<cbx33> no
<cbx33> artwork
<cbx33> ?
<ogra> docs are packaged ...
<ogra> not artwork ?
<cbx33> eh?
<cbx33> whats next on the agenda
<cbx33> is what I meant
<ogra> right artwork i would think unless there is more doc stuff
<ogra> flint !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
<cbx33> ogra can you confirm what kwwii is doing artwork wise for edubuntu
<cbx33> hey flint
<flint> Hey Oliver, I have been buzy sorry for my absence...
<ogra> not much, but i stopped nagging recently
<flint> hello all!
<ogra> flint, great to see you
<flint> ogra, thanks buddy.
<flint> whatsup?
<cbx33> ogra, ok, we'll nag
<cbx33> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuArtwork/Palette
<ogra> i think his plan is to have an overall similar look of SVGs where he just has to adjust the colors
<ogra> for ubuntu kubuntu and edubuntu
<cbx33> right
<cbx33> for wallpaper too?
<ogra> cbx33, i like all of these wallpapers, but i fear we need something more neutral as default ... like the currentl one ..
<juliux> evening
<cbx33> you mean the one i did?
<cbx33> hey juliux
<ogra> i'ts up to us to keep kwwii's stuff or modify parts i think
<LaserJock> I think it'd be great in the long run if we had several themes and had a good theme manager
<ogra> yeah, the current edgy default
<ogra> we have a good theme manager
<ogra> the one we ship is fine ... the themes need adjustment ...
<LaserJock> but you can easily switch metacity/gdm/gtk/wallpaper from a GUI can you?
<LaserJock> *can't
<LaserJock> don't you run a dpkg-reconfigure or something?
<ogra> you can minus gdm
* LaserJock is sorry for being so dumb
* cbx33 pokes LaserJock 
<cbx33> hehe
<LaserJock> yes, I guess that is true
<ogra> the theme engine offers metathemes, with icons, metacity, gtk, wallpaper
<ogra> our metathemes were never bound to a wallpaper ... but thats a trivial gconf change
<LaserJock> do we have a set for each of the young/middle school/high school or uni ?
<ogra> gdm needs admin privs
<ogra> no
<cbx33> we currently just have new wallpapers for each
<ogra> we have https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuArtwork/Palette
<ogra> but i would like to have optical variations between the themes ...
<ogra> the manga theme is nice, but not for all themes
<cbx33> would be nice
<cbx33> true
<LaserJock> seems like we need to do better with the "total packaging"
<ogra> the desktop should noticeable change if you select a different age group, but still be recognized as edubuntu $release
<LaserJock> right
<cbx33> yeh
<LaserJock> hmm, it'd be interesting if you could set a theme
<LaserJock> *then* set age
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> u see....this is what ubrander was going to help with
<cbx33> EASY theme building for ubuntu
<ogra> was ?
<cbx33> i never got started on it....no one really showed enough interest
<cbx33> but if you think it's worth it...I'll take another look at it
<cbx33> it was going to allow people to create an entire package of artwork
<ajmitch> it could be useful
<cbx33> themes could be shared easily
<ajmitch> unlike my code :)
<LaserJock> :p
<cbx33> hah...yeh right ajmitch
<cbx33> it was gonna have a nice previes window as well
<cbx33> dynamically updaing etc
<LaserJock> first things first though
<cbx33> indeed
<LaserJock> we should have 3 complete themes for fiesty, right?
<LaserJock> or rather 1 theme with 3 age variations
<ogra> cbx33, there exists a mail from me in the ubuntu.devel archive with a call for developers to write such a tool ... a very old mail ...
<cbx33> hehe
<ogra> would be awesome to hev it
<ogra> *have
<cbx33> well.....maybe I'll get on it
<ogra> first TCM :P
<cbx33> of course
<LaserJock> I want it so I can make a "branded" .iso for my department
<cbx33> well i have updates in the bzr
<cbx33> i need you to look at them.....and see about that UGLY hack i made
<ogra> yeah
<cbx33> i think it's gonna make you physically sick :p
<ogra> i'll get a vaccination in advance then :)
<ajmitch> ogra: I'd love to hear from you later about your pam problems :)
<ogra> ajmitch, no problems, but a decision that the curret mechanism is to bad and needs to be replaced by something proper
<ogra> well, and some pam mount issues with ssh
* ajmitch doesnt' want to sidetrack the meeting
<ogra> i want a proper spec and want to have an implementation plan for something that doesnt suck as much after sevilla
<ogra> anyway, back on track
<ogra> was that all about art ?
<cbx33> yes
<ogra> Community & Documentation & Web
<ogra> any news here from anyone ?
<ogra> doesnt look like
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> all I know is that ubuntu.com will be updated soon
<LaserJock> and then we might get more education stuff on there
<cbx33> nice
<ogra> pips1 was working on something with will, wasnt he ?
<LaserJock> will did some work on the Handbook
<LaserJock> ogra: yeah, I think so
<LaserJock> I think there's been some discussion/debate with the website team about how to exactly handle stuff
<LaserJock> but I think it's moving forward
<cbx33> awesome
<LaserJock> there is still a lot of work to be done on the Handbook
<LaserJock> so if anybody wants to jump in let nixternal know
<LaserJock> but I think we'll be shipping edubuntu-docs with Feisty
<ogra> i'd love to but i would have to take holidays for it ...
<cbx33> hehehaha
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> well, what we can do is basically drop the sections that don't get done and smooth it out
<LaserJock> then add them back in for Feisty+1
<LaserJock> I think it's important to get stuff out there
<ogra> i think there is a lot of stuff already so that would be a good last resort
<LaserJock> even if it's isn't so comprehensive
<ogra> right
<LaserJock> I think we might gain contributors simply by shipping the thing
<ogra> yewp
<cbx33> true
<LaserJock> we can hammer the team looking for contributors
<LaserJock> but I think most people aware of it are already strapped
<LaserJock> we need to get it to new blood :-)
<ogra> yep ... schools :)
* cbx33 is working on that
<LaserJock> yes, once people can start filing bugs and sending feedback to -devel or -users it'll certainly help
<cbx33> ogra, what can my YouthLUG do to help?
<ogra> playing with edubuntu and improving the missing docs during that ?
<ogra> i.e. find weaknesses
<stelis> FWIW, I wrote the draft Quickstart Guide to be shippable as is.
<stelis> i.e. just add screenshots and it could go.
<ogra> LaserJock, is that in edubuntu-docs already ?
<LaserJock> I don't think so
<LaserJock> we have About Edubuntu, Release Notes, Handbook, and School Advocacy
<ogra> http://www.elsn.org/downloads/edubuntu/drafts/edubuntu-quickstart.html#installing-clients
<cbx33> LaserJock, there should be Student Control Panel
<LaserJock> cbx33: ?
<stelis> willvdl was going to look at integrating it into his Handbook work
<ogra> cbx33, isnt that shipped with SCP ?
<cbx33> yes i was asked to do some for the handbook too
<ogra> ah
<LaserJock> stelis: did you write that from scratch or did you grab it from somewhere?
<stelis> I wrote it all
<LaserJock> wow, ok
<stelis> The layout is inspired a bit by a page on the Website
<stelis> I was going to put a "Managing" section in
<LaserJock> well, I don't think we should add more docs to the edubuntu-docs package right now
<cbx33> hehe
<LaserJock> but it'd be good to get that integrated on the Handbook
<LaserJock> s/on/in
<LaserJock> I also think stuff like that is great for the website
<stelis> I'm really just trying to get some content out there, so I don't mind reworking the format
<LaserJock> stelis: just make sure nixternal and will know about your stuff and they should help you with that
<LaserJock> I'm just the packaging peon
<stelis> Laserjock: we talked about it briefly the meeting before last, so we've made contact
<stelis> But haven't get a plan as such
<LaserJock> good news indeed
<stelis> get > got
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> I'm not sure when we'll really stop taking doc content for Feisty
<LaserJock> the Doc String Freeze is March 8th
<LaserJock> but I'm not sure if Edubuntu docs will necessarily have to stick to that rigidly
<ogra> i dont think so ...
<ogra> i personally am happy to slip that date for edubuntu if possible
<LaserJock> it's mostly for translation time
<LaserJock> but I'm guessing Edubuntu won't get translated too much this time around
<ogra> right
<ogra> we have to start somewhere ...
<ogra> ok, is that it for docs
<ogra> ?
<LaserJock> I think so
<ogra> ok
<ogra> i dont think there is anything i can say about management atm ...
<ogra> so any other business ?
<ogra> going once
<ogra> going twice
<ogra> ...
<ogra> adjourned
<ogra> thanks all
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Xubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 01 Mar 15:00 UTC: Community Question Time in #ubuntu-meeting | 01 Mar 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 05 Mar 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 06 Mar 18:00 UTC: Mozilla Team
<shawarma> Wow... Slow meeting.
<steve_jbs> No meeting today?
<steve_jbs> Unless I have the time wrong... wouldn't be the first time I counted the timezones the wrong way around
<shawarma> You can ask the bot.
<shawarma> @schedule Copenhagen
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Copenhagen: Current meeting: Xubuntu | 01 Mar 16:00: Community Question Time in #ubuntu-meeting | 01 Mar 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 05 Mar 17:00: Kernel Team | 06 Mar 19:00: Mozilla Team
<shawarma> Like so.
<steve_jbs> Wow, thanks... that will come in handy!
<steve_jbs> @schedule Toronto
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Toronto: Current meeting: Xubuntu | 01 Mar 10:00: Community Question Time in #ubuntu-meeting | 01 Mar 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 05 Mar 11:00: Kernel Team | 06 Mar 13:00: Mozilla Team
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Xubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 01 Mar 15:00 UTC: Community Question Time in #ubuntu-meeting | 01 Mar 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 05 Mar 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 06 Mar 18:00 UTC: Mozilla Team | 06 Mar 20:00 UTC: MOTU meeting
<SpudDogg> #ubuntu-nun
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-03-01
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 01 Mar 15:00 UTC: Community Question Time in #ubuntu-meeting | 01 Mar 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 05 Mar 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 06 Mar 18:00 UTC: Mozilla Team | 06 Mar 20:00 UTC: MOTU meeting | 07 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<flint> @schedule
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 01 Mar 15:00: Community Question Time in #ubuntu-meeting | 01 Mar 21:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 05 Mar 16:00: Kernel Team | 06 Mar 18:00: Mozilla Team | 06 Mar 20:00: MOTU meeting | 07 Mar 12:00: Edubuntu
<juliux> @schedule berlin
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 01 Mar 16:00: Community Question Time in #ubuntu-meeting | 01 Mar 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 05 Mar 17:00: Kernel Team | 06 Mar 19:00: Mozilla Team | 06 Mar 21:00: MOTU meeting | 07 Mar 13:00: Edubuntu
<T_H> hi
<intengu> is there going to be a meeting
<elkbuntu> intengu, in an hour by my calculation
<intengu> elkbuntu: thanks
<ScottK> @schedule new york
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/New_York: 01 Mar 10:00: Community Question Time in #ubuntu-meeting | 01 Mar 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 05 Mar 11:00: Kernel Team | 06 Mar 13:00: Mozilla Team | 06 Mar 15:00: MOTU meeting | 07 Mar 07:00: Edubuntu
<phanatic> @schedule Budapest
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Budapest: 01 Mar 16:00: Community Question Time in #ubuntu-meeting | 01 Mar 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 05 Mar 17:00: Kernel Team | 06 Mar 19:00: Mozilla Team | 06 Mar 21:00: MOTU meeting | 07 Mar 13:00: Edubuntu
<JohnRobert> .
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Community Question Time in #ubuntu-meeting | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 01 Mar 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 05 Mar 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 06 Mar 18:00 UTC: Mozilla Team | 06 Mar 20:00 UTC: MOTU meeting | 07 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<jono> hi all
<jono> is anyone here for the community Q+A?
<LoudMouthMan> Hello Jono.
* Jucato raises his hand
<omegabeta> Yep
<intengu> yes
* morgs too
<jono> righteo
<Jucato> ubuntu-meeting-questions seems to be empty though...
<jono> yeah
<jono> lets just ask questions in here
<Jucato> :)
<jono> please prefix a questions with QUESTION so I can see it
<jono> ok, does anyone want to kick off with questions?
<omegabeta> should we start on particular topics and work our way down?
<jono> omegabeta: no, the plan is free form
<jono> ask any questions you like
<jono> so, any questions?
<Jucato> are we limited to 1-2 questions per person? :D
<jono> nope
<intengu> QUESTION: installed gnome main menu herd 4 in control centre groups system
<jono> as many as you like
<jono> intengu: thats not a question :)
<Jucato> heh
<LoudMouthMan> QUESTION: Jono how do you feel community is doing. at this moment ?
<boredandblogging> why the decision to allow only approved LoCos to have canonical hosted domains and site?
<jono> LoudMouthMan: I think things are going well, I think our community is growing, we are developing some good best practise and the teams are beginning to communicate better
<GazzaK> QUESTION - if I am rubbish at coding and the like, is a suitable path to ubuntu membership being active on the irc channels and also being the local town's lugmaster?  will I be able to become a ubuntu member with a lack of coding/bug fixing skills?
<jono> LoudMouthMan: but there is lots of road ahead of us and we all need to work together to share information and experience better
<gord> QUSTION: do you see any time in the future where ubuntu community teams will get more support from canonical, for example funding to hold conferences for local businesses or some such
<jono> part of this effort is wiki.ubuntu.com/Buildingcommunity
<dabaR> GazzaK: is that a serious question?
<dabaR> haha
<dabaR> Sorry
<omegabeta> QUESTION : How do you plan to further the ease-of-use in terms of "out of the box" installs regarding display drivers/ network productivity (installation/finding) for the people that have swtiched from Windows, this seems to be the leap and biggest issue?
<Jucato> GazzaK: yes!
* Jucato did that
<jono> ok
<jono> QUESTION - if I am rubbish at coding and the like, is a suitable path to ubuntu membership being active on the irc channels and also being the local town's lugmaster?  will I be able to become a ubuntu member with a lack of coding/bug fixing skills?
<dabaR> sup with everyone havin voice?
<mobyli> QUESTION: herding cats. Companies make products and as such would no doubt like to influence the direction of upstream projects. How is this possible when you cannot use power directly as in a traditional corporate hierarchy?
<jono> ubuntu membership is about proviing you are a good contributor, and if you can demonstrate commitment to the CC, you will get membership
<jono> it is always recommended that when you apply for membership you have a good body of experience behind you - and there are lots and lots of people with experience in non-coding things such as locos, advocacy, docs etc
<jono> QUSTION: do you see any time in the future where ubuntu community teams will get more support from canonical, for example funding to hold conferences for local businesses or some such
<GazzaK> jono, thanks
<jono> GazzaK: np
<jono> Canonical try to support all teams where possible, and in reality, most teams don't need financial support but help and assistance getting off the ground
<jono> but remember Canonical are a small company, and have a limited budget
<JohnRobert> QUESTION: Why does totem have a video area when I'm playing a music file? I used to be able to resize it away..
<Jucato> O.o
<jono> so we try to plough resources into areas that are the most productive places for the money
<jono> but yes, Canonical is always open to ideas for funding, speak to me if you want to ask
<jono> QUESTION: why the decision to allow only approved LoCos to have canonical hosted domains and site?
<Seveas> jono, then I have some tough questions for you later ;)
<jono> Seveas: :)
<jono> one of the big problems with locos and other teams is that way too much time is spent messing around setting up resources - in reality every team just needs some wiki pages and some structure, as you can see at wiki.ubuntu.com/SampleTeam
<AnRkey> soz for being late
<AnRkey> what i miss
<Seveas> jono, 404 on that page
<jono> so by restricting these resources to approved teams, it means the team has spent their time getting a team built and stable and can then offer the next level of resources
<jono> I want to see less time arguing about CMSs and more time *building community* and *building teams* - this is part of the plan
<juliux> Seveas, perhaps jono mean this one https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BuildingCommunity/SampleTeam
<Seveas> juliux, gracias
<juliux> Seveas, prego
<jono> sorry, yep https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BuildingCommunity/SampleTeam
<jono> QUESTION : How do you plan to further the ease-of-use in terms of "out of the box" installs regarding display drivers/ network productivity (installation/finding) for the people that have swtiched from Windows, this seems to be the leap and biggest issue?
<Eruantalon> QUESTION: How is Canonical/Ubuntu making sure that any translations, bugfixes and other improvements are sent upstream and shared with other distros? What is done to make sure we are not duplicating the effort?
<Jucato> QUESTION: What is the concrete role of the user community in Ubuntu development or what impact does the user community have in developmennt. How does Ubuntu try to bridge the gap between the developer and user community? For example, how do developers know features that users want or don't want vs. features that developers want or don't want? On the other hand, how are users informed on reasons for some changes or design decisions? or should
<boredandblogging> jono, makes sense, thanks
<Jucato> users be entitled to such information in the first place?
<Jucato> ugh too long.. sorry
<jono> thats more of a technical, distro team question
<jono> but one thing that is on my radar is to improve getting feedback from the community to developers
<JohnRobert> QUESTION: What kind of questions are we meant to be asking here (seriously)
<mooey> :)
<jono> one thing we *really* need to fix is ensuring people test hardware support *before* release instead of installing a new ubuntu and complaining that stuff is b0rked
<omegabeta> JohnRobert: not ones about re-sizing totem
<jono> QUESTION: herding cats. Companies make products and as such would no doubt like to influence the direction of upstream projects. How is this possible when you cannot use power directly as in a traditional corporate hierarchy?
<jono> ahh cool, a herding cats question, hope you guys like the presentation btw :)
* Jucato still has to watch it :(
<intengu> QUESTION: /part
<jono> it depends on how companies want to influence upstreams - working with open source projects is the same for everyone, irrespective of whether you are a company or an individual - you need to understand the community development process - the problem with many companies is that they run in like a bull in a china shop and cause problems
<Eruantalon> jono: Where is it?
<jono> everyone has the potential to help upstreams, companies and individuals
<Jucato> Eruantalon: http://www.jonobacon.org/?p=878
<Eruantalon> Jucato: thx
<jono> Eruantalon: http://www.jonobacon.org/?p=878
<jono> ahh
<jono> <Eruantalon> QUESTION: How is Canonical/Ubuntu making sure that any translations, bugfixes and other improvements are sent upstream and shared with other distros? What is done to make sure we are not duplicating the effort?
<jono> Eruantalon: this is a distro team and Launchpad question, and I am not best to answer it - I do know that we always work to get translations, patches and fixes upstream though, but you will need to speak to the distro and launchpad teams about the specifics
<dabaR> Eruantalon: #ubuntu-my
<dabaR> soirry
<jono> <Jucato> QUESTION: What is the concrete role of the user community in Ubuntu development or what impact does the user community have in developmennt. How does Ubuntu try to bridge the gap between the developer and user community? For example, how do developers know features that users want or don't want vs. features that developers want or don't want? On the other hand, how are users informed on reasons for some changes or design decisions? or sho
<jono> uld users be entitled to such information in the first place?
<Jucato> hehe sorry for the batch question :D
<jono> users play a number of roles in ubuntu development:
<jono>  * telling developers what they want, defining needs through use statistics etc
<jono>  * giving feedback about ubuntu and what works and what doesnt
<jono>  * supporting other users via lists and forums
<daviey> QUESTION: What is being done to encourage people with coding skills into development?  Currently it seems like a cold wall between user and dev
<jono> I am really keen to improve the connection between ubuntu developers and users, but intelligently - we can't just ask users to tell devs what they want - devs are always inundated with cracktastic ideas
<AnRkey> QUESTION: Who decides what is important and whats not when it comes to what needs to be worked on
<dsas> like ponies.
<AnRkey> ?
<Vorian> lol
<AnRkey> rofl
<jono> if anyone has any ideas how to improve this, do let me know - part of my role is to take your ideas and claim them as my own
* jono laughs
<Jucato> lol
<jono> <JohnRobert> QUESTION: What kind of questions are we meant to be asking here (seriously)
<juliux> JohnRobert, lol
* JohnRobert isn't laughing
<Jucato> herding ideas know are we? :D
<jono> anything about the ubuntu community
<JohnRobert> ta
<omegabeta> humerously enough, i just applyed updates and i cant do anything except resize this irc window, everything else is frozen
<juliux> JohnRobert, sorry
<omegabeta> QUESTION : How do you plan to further the ease-of-use in terms of "out of the box" installs regarding display drivers/ network productivity (installation/finding) for the people that have swtiched from Windows, this seems to be the leap and biggest issue?
<jono> <daviey> QUESTION: What is being done to encourage people with coding skills into development?  Currently it seems like a cold wall between user and dev
<LoudMouthMan> QUESTION: I know id like to get more Face/presentation time from any developers willing to give it. is there a way a approved loco team could arrange this e.g IRC meetings or Local Lug or dinner events ?
<jono> it is the responsibility of each team to encourage new users to join there teams, so I would like to see coder-friendly teams making an outreach effort
<Jucato> omegabeta: that was answered already I think
<JohnRobert> QUESTION: Alright then, is there a place where users can spew ideas that devs might look at? Rather than all over our blogs? Y'know, like 'wouldn't it be great if there was a nice gui tool for setting up number of times your ext3 fs is force checked'?
<jono> this is another area where I would like to see solid best practise - ensuring that all teams know how to get new users
<omegabeta> oops, my bad
<jono> <AnRkey> QUESTION: Who decides what is important and whats not when it comes to what needs to be worked on
<jono> this is largely a combination of community specs, which anyone can recommend, but the final word comes from the technical board
<jono> sensible specs with people to do the work always have a good chance, and remember you are welcome to work on projects for future inclusion
<jono> <LoudMouthMan> QUESTION: I know id like to get more Face/presentation time from any developers willing to give it. is there a way a approved loco team could arrange this e.g IRC meetings or Local Lug or dinner events ?
<AnRkey> so how do i get them to understand that my poodle is going to be killed because of my pent up rage and the fact that my MX510 has no gui config available
<AnRkey> :P
<jono> this is always tough
<daviey> RE: encourage coders into dev;  I would like to see more #ubuntu-classroom lectures - going through package building and such
<dsas> jono: Though you should mention that non-canonical people can work on what they want.
<jono> we already demand a lot of travel from our paid developers, and Canonical are reluctant to add any more
<AnRkey> i feel cut off from devs
<jono> dsas: indeed
<jono> but every dev lives somewhere, and devs should be contacted directly for speaking appearances
<LoudMouthMan> jono: yeah we understand I was thinking of more on the local . dev down the road opportunity.
<jono> I am also available and do the odd bit of international travel
<dabaR> you should have said that their contact info is on launchpad, so someone can contact them and make them an offer.
<jono> LoudMouthMan: contact them directly
<LoudMouthMan> but get it co-ordinated in the community.
<dsas> LoudMouthMan: we have loads of them here :) I'm sure we could sort something out.
<jono> dabaR: I think we can all figure out how to contact people :)
<LoudMouthMan> dsas: guadec . hmmm .
<jono> LoudMouthMan: you can't coordinate it when their time is so thin and its a local level
<mooey> daviey, absolutly. i have the development knowledge to fix a few bugs, but more often than not i do not because i find working with packaging hugely intimidating. its way to complex.
<AnRkey> jono: i would gladly pay the bounty for things like a mouse gui for 10 button mice
<jono> why have a coordinated system when most devs will only travel within their locality - that would be a system without a problem
<AnRkey> and even for a joystick config gui
<jono> <JohnRobert> QUESTION: Alright then, is there a place where users can spew ideas that devs might look at? Rather than all over our blogs? Y'know, like 'wouldn't it be great if there was a nice gui tool for setting up number of times your ext3 fs is force checked'?
<AnRkey> can i do this and if so how?
<LoudMouthMan> jono : cheers
<Seveas> QUESTION: Where is jono's cellphone?
<JohnRobert> ANSWER: Someplace
<Vorian> lol Seveas
<jono> you are welcome to contact developers and share ideas, but the best place is to register specs with your ideas - remember though that ideas are not enough - if you can back an idea up with people who can work it, it becomes a real possibility
<jono> <Seveas> QUESTION: Where is jono's cellphone?
<jono> in a black cab somewhere in London
<Seveas> err, i meant: QUESTION: what's canonicals position on having companies/foundations/etc associated with Ubuntu?
<jono> although I have a new one now
<jono> woo!!
<jono> <Seveas> err, i meant: QUESTION: what's canonicals position on having companies/foundations/etc associated with Ubuntu?
<Jucato> n73 :)
<jono> Seveas: what do you mean?
<Jucato> QUESTION: about communication between devs and users. do you have some ideas, even wild ones on how to do this? How about plans on gathering user feedback?
<Seveas> jono, basically locoteam sponsoring
<dsas> Jucato: There's the forum-ambassadors spec for one.
<Jucato> is there a channel for the forum council?
<Vorian> Jucato, what do you mean?
<Jucato> dsas: what happened to that spec btw?
<juliux> Seveas, intersting question;)
<jono> Seveas: again, there is limited funding, but in reality, most locos don't need sponsoring - they just need "stuff" - CDs, t-shirts, flyers, posters etc, which we can supply some of, and they can provide the rest
<AnRkey> QUESTION: Jono, could you give more info on adding specs. What kind of info or "backup" can i add to help out? I can design a gui but I can't really code it yet...
<AnRkey> so add my design ideas or what
<jono> <Jucato> QUESTION: about communication between devs and users. do you have some ideas, even wild ones on how to do this? How about plans on gathering user feedback?
<Jucato> Vorian: a place to contact them for inquiries?
<Vorian> Jucato, forums-council@lists.ubuntu.com
<Jucato> Vorian: thanks
<Vorian> Jucato, np :)
<jono> Jucato: I have lots of ideas :)
<dsas> Jucato: It's being implemented I believe. I don't know too much about it
<Jucato> hehe care to share? :)
<jono> I think we need to ensure that user feedback makes sense in the scope of development
<dabaR> well, he had the idea to make this meeting.
<jono> let me telly you a little story as an example:
<dabaR> oh, oh, story time!
<Eruantalon> :-)
* Jucato sits down and listens attentively
<jono> every day my friend would get i from work, and the house would be freezing cold
<jono> and every day he would get in and turn the thermostat up to full
<jono> two other people I know did the same thing
<daviey> QUESTION: is Canonical willing to share any more information on their business interest in Ubuntu?  Where do you envisage Canonical involvement in 5 years time?
<jono> so I asked if other people did it, and everyone I know does it
<dsas> jono: is that your favourite anecdote?
<jono> its cold, so they bang the thermostat up to full
<dsas> :)
<jono> dsas: one of many
<jono> banging it up to full does not make it heat up any quicker, but perception makes us do it
<jono> so, everyone is wrong when using the thermostat - this shows that mass opinion is not always right
<jono> what we need is intelligent feedback
<jono> I am not saying only letting clever people share views, but getting those views intelligently and in a form in which our devs can use
<Jucato> true... but devs usually have a very high standard for what's intelligent feedback...
<dabaR> which is good
<jono> Jucato: yes, but devs don't want to read 150 emails every day with ideas
<daviey> Jucato, isn't there where bug triage's come in?
<Jucato> I mean, from a user's perspective/knowledge, that's the only truth he knows...
<jono> what they want is a list of ideas that are (a) doable (b) considered and (c) practical for ubuntu
<jono> the biggest problem here is that user feedback is largely randomised - and we need to organise and present it effectively to developers
<jono> <AnRkey> QUESTION: Jono, could you give more info on adding specs. What kind of info or "backup" can i add to help out? I can design a gui but I can't really code it yet...
<Jucato> that's the hard part :)
<jono> specs are registered at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/
<jono> they should be detailed descriptions of a feature, how it would work, what work is required to implement it eg
<jono> etc, rahter
<jono> rather
<jono> each spec has a wiki page associated with it
<jono> that is where the spec should be fleshed out
<AnRkey> jono: whould holding poodles for ransom until my demands for a mouse gui are met work?
<jono> we encourage the community to register specs, and these are discussed at the ubuntu developer summit
<jono> AnRkey: poodle abuse is not a good technique
<Eruantalon> AnRkey: Do you really have a mouse with 10 buttons?
<AnRkey> brb counting
<jono> AnRkey: but a detailed spec with how it would work, be designed and some efforts in finding developers to hack on it would do wonders :)
<AnRkey> 8 buttons
<jono> right, out of questions
<jono> anything else?
<AnRkey> 2 extra functions
<AnRkey> wheelup and wheeldown
<AnRkey> 10 total functions
<AnRkey> and i USE them all
<Eruantalon> wow
<daviey> QUESTION: is Canonical willing to share any more information on their business interest in Ubuntu?  Where do you envisage Canonical involvement in 5 years time?
<AnRkey> in linux i use 7 of them
<jono> <daviey> QUESTION: is Canonical willing to share any more information on their business interest in Ubuntu?  Where do you envisage Canonical involvement in 5 years time?
<AnRkey> Eruantalon: get an mx510 or 518 from logitech and see for yourself
<AnRkey> i am in love with these mice
<AnRkey> they make me feel wark when i get the latest version :D
<jono> AnRkey: can you take the discussion elsewhere
<jono> cheers
<AnRkey> jono: sorry
<frafu> maybe there should be a chart with all the ideas and a little description of their status (rejected, adopted, unconsidered yet,...). The users with new ideas could consult the chart to see whether it really is a new idea
<jono> the interests are largely what you see - developing ubuntu, providing support and business services, working with other companies to support ubuntu, hardware relationships etc
<jono> there is no devious or secret plan, at least that I am aware of :P
<Eruantalon> jono: That'
<Eruantalon> s because you're not inner circle yet!
<jono> its always about making ubuntu a product that we can derive revenue from
<AnRkey> QUESTION: what about a comunity voting system for working out each specs importance?
<jono> Eruantalon: hehe, I am pretty close to the center and its all good :)
<jono> <AnRkey> QUESTION: what about a comunity voting system for working out each specs importance?
<daviey> jono, i appreciate there is no devious plan - i believe that.  But surely Canonical can't afford to fund it forever
<jono> AnRkey: thats a popularity contest and its not the spirit of free software - you could get one spec called "Death To All Kittens with KDeath in Kubuntu" and get 5000 wackos to support it and it goes in
<jono> specs and ideas should go in based on merit and the direction of ubuntu
<jono> daviey: sure, we need to be a profitable company, and Canonical has hired a business team to develop these services - training, OEM, ISV, business services, support etc
<daviey> jono, thaank you
<AnRkey> QUESTION: how is the comminity involved in the choices for which spec to work on and how important it is?
<jono> we offer the typical linux distro services,  but there is a lot of work in getting that infrastructure up and running
<jono> part of my work is to always ensure the link between Canonical <--> Community is clear
<jono> daviey: np :)
<jono> <AnRkey> QUESTION: how is the comminity involved in the choices for which spec to work on and how important it is?
<jono> AnRkey: each community member works on what they want to - they decide is fun and interesting and work on it
<jono> any other questions?
<AnRkey> jono: so i need to inspire a dev to work on it then ? :)
<daviey> AnRkey, write up the spec, draw a sketch and see what happens
<jono> AnRkey: write a detail spec about how you would like it to work, and what work needs doing and then go out there and encourage someone to work on it :)
<jono> AnRkey: look at the existing specs
<jono> to see how it works
<Jucato> AnRkey: usually. you either find someone who has the same itch as you, or scratch it yourself eventually :)
<daviey> QUESTION: Would the council consider bounty projects, through launchpad, with the proceeds going to ubuntu
<AnRkey> jono: thanks for your time, i hope i was not too annoying
<jono> of course not AnRkey :)
<jono> <daviey> QUESTION: Would the council consider bounty projects, through launchpad, with the proceeds going to ubuntu
<jono> bounties from who?
<daviey> users
<Jucato> rich users...
<jono> right
<daviey> ie AnRkey wants something and is willing to give say $1 - it would help
<Eruantalon> QUESTION: Has it occured to Canonical that if you are really succesful in making Ubuntu a great distro then you will have trouble making money of support...(Hmm ironically my computer chrashed while writing this question)
<jono> not a question for me really, thats a decision for the Launchpad and technical board - I don't see a problem myself though - don;t we support bounties for products in LP?
<AnRkey> QUESTION: OK last one... Can I sponsor a bounty? So choose a spec and pay it's bounty on behalf of the community?
<jono> <Eruantalon> QUESTION: Has it occured to Canonical that if you are really succesful in making Ubuntu a great distro then you will have trouble making money of support...(Hmm ironically my computer chrashed while writing this question)
<jono> Eruantalon: haha, thats always the problem, but no vendor in the world has made software that easy to use - there will always be support requirements
<jono> <AnRkey> QUESTION: OK last one... Can I sponsor a bounty? So choose a spec and pay it's bounty on behalf of the community?
<jono> AnRkey: sure, anyone can set a bounty :)
<jono> ok I think we are done
<jono> seems like all the questions are in :)
<AnRkey> ok outa here
<AnRkey> thanks again :)
<Jucato> that was fast :)
<jono> this community Q+A will be a monthly meeting
<AnRkey> ta
<GazzaK> thanks jono, good meeting \o/
* Jucato will keep tabs on the schedules :)
<Eruantalon> same time and place?
<mooey> thank you, jono
<JosefK> good timing on my behalf ^^
<Jucato> thanks jono!!
<jono> thanks all :)
* Jucato contemplates bed
* gord offers his thanks to jono also
* daviey floods the channel with thanks aswell
<stapel> a meeting that doesn't run into overtime...that's a first
<jono> thanks all, see you at the next meeting :)
<daviey> jono, unless i see you first ;)
<jono> bye all :)
<jono> :)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Community Question Time in #ubuntu-meeting | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 01 Mar 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 05 Mar 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 06 Mar 18:00 UTC: Mozilla Team | 06 Mar 20:00 UTC: MOTU meeting | 07 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 01 Mar 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 05 Mar 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 06 Mar 18:00 UTC: Mozilla Team | 06 Mar 20:00 UTC: MOTU meeting | 07 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 08 Mar 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<nixternal> @schedule chicago
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 01 Mar 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 05 Mar 09:00: Kernel Team | 06 Mar 12:00: Mozilla Team | 06 Mar 14:00: MOTU meeting | 07 Mar 06:00: Edubuntu | 08 Mar 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Ubuntu Development Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 05 Mar 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 06 Mar 18:00 UTC: Mozilla Team | 06 Mar 20:00 UTC: MOTU meeting | 07 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 08 Mar 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<pitti> hi
<seb128_> hey pitti
<seb128_> brb
<dholbach> hiya
<cjwatson> evening
<seb128_> re
<kwwii> hi
<heno> hi
* ajmitch waves
* JPMaximilian waves
* Mithrandir pongs.
<iwj__> Hi.
* ogra waves
<heno> kwwii: do you put artwork files somewhere? I'd like to steal some for the WinFOSS work
<pochu> @now madrid
<Ubugtu> Current time in Europe/Madrid: March 01 2007, 21:59:08 - Current meeting: Ubuntu Development Team
<kwwii> heno: until now I have them all on my disk, although the gdm is mainly svg
<heno> e.g. the edubuntu tarball is now here: http://people.ubuntu.com/~henrik/winfoss/feisty/edubuntu/current/
<kwwii> heno: I can send you the logo file for gdm, that might be helpful
<heno> kwwii: that would be great thanks
<cjwatson> I'll add the Edubuntu tarball into cdimage as soon as I've dug into the report about WinFOSS not appearing at all
<kwwii> heno: the wallpaper is also svg
<asac> hi all
<heno> cjwatson: right, cool. I filed a cdimage bug this time
<Riddell> hi
<Keybuk> fabbione, Mithrandir: ping
<Mithrandir> Keybuk: You sent me a contentless ping.  This is a contentless pong.  Please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I am around.
<fabbione> pong
<cjwatson> Mithrandir: I think chiefly we want you to be around ;-)
<cjwatson> heno: ta
<cjwatson> mdz: here?
<mdz> yep
<Mithrandir> 21:58  * Mithrandir pongs.
<mdz> missing anyone?
<Mithrandir> cjwatson: not my fault Scott's not paying attention. :-P
<cjwatson> heh
<cjwatson> bdmurray: here?
<tkamppeter> ping
<Keybuk> Mithrandir: sorry, missed that
* mvo is here
<cjwatson> BenC: here?
<BenC> cjwatson: definitely
<Keybuk> Mithrandir: actually, x-chat missed that too, cause you were dim grey :p
<bdmurray> cjwatson: yes
<cjwatson> doko,kylem,pkl_,rtg: here?
<pkl_> yes
<kylem> ACK
<Mithrandir> Keybuk: I'm good at hiding in the shaodws.
<mdz> cjwatson,Keybuk: let me know when everyone is accounted for
<Keybuk> mdz: everyone on my team is here
<rtg> cjwatson: pong
<doko> pong
<cjwatson> mdz: check
<mdz> ok, welcome all
<mdz> are all the summaries in as well?
<Keybuk> a few tardies, but yes
<mdz> I've added a bit to the calendar to remind us to send the reminder early
<cjwatson> all my summaries were on time
<mdz> any new agenda items?
<asac> i want to update my agenda item
<asac> its meant to be more general and not mozilla team specific
<ogra> a reminder reminder ?
<heno> I can just add a quick report from the LP meeting
<asac> update wiki or post updated version here?
<mdz> asac: go ahead and change the wiki
<asac> thx
<mvo> if we have time, maybe we can consider taking about https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2007-March/000414.html (but only if we have time)
<mdz> heno: oh, yes please.  can we make that a regular item each week?
<Keybuk> mdz: I've moved my reminder up a bit
<mdz> mvo: sure, add to the wiki
<cjwatson> asac: your agenda item has an easy answer, but I left it there because I wanted to publicise that answer for more general use
<heno> I brought up the beta performance issues today, which they are now looking at
<heno> mdz: sure, good idea
<heno> I'll use email next time
<mdz> ok, let's dive in.
<mdz> (fabbione) Improving hw certification test coverage
<fabbione> yeps
<asac> cjwatson: it should be not that easy anymore :)
<mdz> fabbione: this was on the mailing list as well, no?
<fabbione> i did send a mail to distro-team
<fabbione> yes
<fabbione> but received only one reply so fat
<fabbione> far
<mdz> fabbione: the last time I talked about this with jbailey, my understanding was that there wasn't enough bandwidth in certification to perform more than basic tests
<fabbione> so this is an encouragment to at least let me know what's the status of your implementations
<cjwatson> asac: with regard to your previous item, the answer as I understood it was http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProcedures
<mdz> this was when I was asking for help with different installer test cases, e.g.
<pitti> still, even if these cannot be implemented right now, I think it makes sense to keep them in the specs for later manual verification
<fabbione> mdz: probably not for feisty, but we can start as much as we can
<cjwatson> which is something I'd like to encourage people to add to in general
<mdz> cjwatson: hmm, is DebuggingProcedures not on UbuntuDevelopment yet?
<fabbione> mdz: also because automation requires implementation and having an overview ASAP it's better
<asac> cjwatson: ah ok
<pitti> it also makes reviewing old specs much easier in later releases
<fabbione> that will let certification team more time to develop their test cases
<cjwatson> asac: though I guess workflow is slightly different from debugging procedures
<heno> I'll be looking at restructuring those pages btw
<mdz> fabbione: I think it's a fine idea for them to participate in feature testing, but I wouldn't want us to spend time defining tests if they won't be carried out
<cjwatson> er bug handling procedures
<heno> with a more uniform naming structure
<asac> cjwatson: lets talk about that if its on topic :) right?
<fabbione> mdz: the tests need to be hw specific. it's clear we are not going to ask them to test everything
<cjwatson> asac: sure
<heno> (more on the -devel list)
<asac> ;)
<cjwatson> mdz: not yet, I'll add it
<fabbione> mdz: but only what involves/might involve hw specific
<fabbione> -ETOOMANYCONVERSATIONS
<mdz> is there anything other than compiz which is high-profile and hardware-specific?
<mdz> we would certainly like for them to test that
<kylem> fabbione, one of the things i'd like is add the linux firmware kit to the list of tests we do for certification.
<fabbione> kylem: noted.
<kylem> fabbione, so we can know what's a kernel bug, and what is a BIOS bug, for things like PCI MMCONFIG, etc.
<pitti> fabbione: oh, I misunderstood it as you also wanted non-hw-specific tests, i. e. verifying general features that specs implement
<kylem> fabbione, thanks.
<fabbione> mdz: ok.
<Mithrandir> mdz: accelerated-x, network-roaming, binary-driver-education, driver-backports at least, just to pick a few of the top ones.
<fabbione> pitti: eheh you are too good dude :)
<doko> mdz: EMT64
<fabbione> ok but we shouldn't spent too much time here in the meeting... please developers review your spec if they can affect hw (or viceversa) and let me know asap
<pitti> fabbione: well, as I said, having these tests written down in the specs is a good thing regardless of the guys implementing them right now :)
<fabbione> pitti: fully agreed
<mdz> Mithrandir: accelerated-x is compiz, network-roaming is a good one to test, as is binary-driver-education (though very coarsely)
<Mithrandir> pitti: but that shouldn't be done in the last month and a half of a cycle, so while we should discuss it now, doing anything much for feisty is just not feasible.
<bdmurray> kylem: where should linuxfirmware kit reports like 79226 go?
<mdz> fabbione: how about for feisty+1, you review the list of targets and check for ones which could affect certification?  you can check with the people working on it if you have doubts
<pitti> Mithrandir: well, it does make sense to write down the tests when the spec is actually implemented
<fabbione> Mithrandir: we might still be able to test some stuff...
<kylem> bdmurray, woah. wtf.
<fabbione> mdz: for feisty+1 i want a settled entry in the specs..
<kylem> bdmurray, reject it... why would that be in launchpad?
<fabbione> mdz: but yes..
<fabbione> i still think it's important we try to test feisty too
<fabbione> if we can good.. if we can't... well same as now
<mdz> ok
<mdz> fabbione: is that sufficient for this meeting?
<fabbione> mdz: yes. i just would like people to send me the info i asked asap if they are not too overloaded
<fabbione> otherwise i am all good
<mdz> fabbione: probably the best would be to confirm with each developer whether they've reviewed, then you know when everyone has input
<mdz> otherwise you don't know whether you've received all broadcast responses
<mdz> but right, moving on
<fabbione> mdz: ok
<mdz> (pitti) [WWW]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/67925 (which translations/input support do we want to ship on CDs): it basically boils down to 'ship Chinese with complete input support vs. don't ship Chinese at all, and two dozen of other translations'. Does anyone know a good and objective data source about Ubuntu popularity that can help us decide?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 67925 in Ubuntu "Do not ship translations without matching input support" [High,In progress] 
<mdz> pitti: I put this question to Canonical bus. dev. in January
<mdz> however, I didn't take into account the tradeoffs available between translations and input support
<pitti> ah, good idea, they probably know better about popularity
<mdz> pitti: could you send me a table of the cost (size) for each language?
<pitti> mdz: the bug has the options with rough numbers
<mdz> pitti: beta is slow for me
<pitti> for everyone :(
<mdz> pitti: does it also have the amount of space available to spend?
<mdz> (approximate)
<pitti> I hope this is due to beta running on a slower server and not due to general code slowness
<mdz> ok, it's loaded
<pitti> mdz: no, since this drastically changed just today
<heno> it's general code slowness :(
<mdz> the bug  doesn't seem to have the information I'd want
<heno> but they are working on it
<mdz> if we're to balance the tradeoffs, I'd like to see size for each available language
<pitti> mdz: ok, I'll add a comprehensive table to the bug
<Mithrandir> mdz: space available to spend on the CDs?  Zero, usually.  We have to take something out to fit something else.
<mdz> pitti: for languages requiring input support, it should include that
<pitti> mdz: best is probably if I modify my langpacksize script to take into account input support as well
<mdz> Mithrandir: we ship a certain quantity of l10n data already
<mdz> pitti: yes, then we can have just one number per language
<mdz> pitti: and can choose the top N for the space
<pitti> ACTION: pitti to update langpack size script to include input support packages
<pitti> mdz: but that wasn't really my question
<mdz> ACTION: pitti to send output to mdz, mdz to pass to bizdev for ranking
<Mithrandir> pitti: please tell me when you have that ready, since I want the input for release thingies.
<pitti> Mithrandir: yep, will do
<mdz> pitti: that will be implicit in the data; we'll get their input based on shipit, commercial activities, etc. and set priorities
<pitti> ok
<mdz> pitti: don't worry, I'll answer the real question :-)
<pitti> mdz: that works for me, thank you
<mdz> asac) do we allow teams to maintain their individual tag/state/bug policies for a subset of packages? If we do so (hopefully yes), how can we properly document and communicate this so arbitrary QA/bug team members still can contribute to bug triage for those packages.
<mdz> cjwatson: you wanted to field this?
<asac> yes ...
<asac> my idea is a QA/Bug team page that lists teams (and what packages are associated with that team) that maintain a special bug policy
<cjwatson> well, the brief answer as above was DebuggingProcedures, but initially I thought asac was talking about general triage procedures rather than specifics of team bug handling
<mdz> I believe there exists such a resource in the BugSquad documentation, including DebuggingProcedures
<asac> + in the long run in launchpad: provide a link to team policy if package of current bug is maintained by a team that has a refined tag/state/bug policy
<cjwatson> however, I think it does fit in reasonably well in DebuggingProcedures
<mdz> bdmurray: do you know if that's in good shape?
<cjwatson> I know that DebuggingUbiquity has comments on bug policy
<cjwatson> mdz: this is something we talked about in the QA call yesterday
<dholbach> we already have: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/Tags and I started https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Teams quite some time ago
<bdmurray> mdz: DebuggingProcedures is being worked on
<cjwatson> I would like to encourage everyone with non-trivial-to-debug packages to write short documentation on them and link it from DebuggingProcedures (as DebuggingPackageName)
<asac> anyway ... i doubt if everybody really looks at those pages regularly ... thats why i would like something in launchpad
<asac> at least a disclaimer
<cjwatson> asac: bug triagers do, AIUI
<mdz> asac: we've asked for a per-package text field which would be displayed on the bug page
<pitti> cjwatson: can we bless this as an ACTION item?
<cjwatson> pitti: I don't want to have actions for the whole team, really
<cjwatson> too hard to decide whether they're finished
<asac> mdz: .... maybe somehow allow per-package ... as well as per-team info would help a lot
<mdz> the push for this should come from QA
<cjwatson> it's an ongoing thing I'd like to encourage, that's all
<pitti> right, just as a reminder
<mdz> if there are questions about how to handle bugs for a specific package, documentation should be provided by a developer
<cjwatson> mdz: yes
<mdz> but it needs to be asked for, so that we focus on the most important bits
<cjwatson> I've asked Brian to establish a list of the most important items
<cjwatson> which can then be filled out over time
<mdz> sounds good
<mdz> asac: are your questions answered?
<asac> hmmm .... so how do triagers get that info
<asac> ?
<cjwatson> new triagers are pointed to the documentation, and AIUI encouraged to re-read from time to time
<mdz> asac: part of the process of joining the QA team is learning the documentation
<asac> ah ... ok ... lets see how well it works when i added that info
<mdz> asac: bdmurray can provide details of the process
<cjwatson> yes, it would be nice to have Launchpad prompt people; that's not something we can resolve immediately, but it's on their list
<bdmurray> asac: I would e-mail the bugsquad team too when that info is added
<mdz> asac: in order for existing QA members to become aware of it, it would be wise to inform them of new documentation
<bdmurray> so they know there is no information
<bdmurray> s/no/new/
<asac> yep ... all clear for now :)
<cjwatson> bdmurray: is the address on the wiki pages themselves?
<mdz> asac: in general, bdmurray is your point of contact for communicating with them
<cjwatson> bdmurray: (it should be)
<bdmurray> cjwatson: "the address"?
<mdz> cjwatson: we could use a section about the bugsquad/qa team on UbuntuDevelopment, especially how to interface with them
<mdz> bdmurray: the contact email address for the team
<bdmurray> got it
<cjwatson> along with instructions
<mdz> cjwatson: could you/bdmurray arrange that between you?
<cjwatson> ACTION: cjwatson/bdmurray to add instructions on interfacing with bugsquad/qa to UbuntuDevelopment
<mdz> what the bug squad is and how/when developers interact with it
<mdz> thanks
<mdz> moving on
<mdz> (Riddell) I plan to upload patches to dist-upgrade tool unless anyone objects
<mdz> Riddell: meaning the upgrader tarball?
<Riddell> the patches to edgy-proposed
<Riddell> the upgrader tar is stuck in soyuz somewhere
<mvo> Riddell: it should be fixed now
<mvo> Riddell: the latest is available
<mdz> Riddell: the patches to several packages to support kubuntu release upgrades?
<Riddell> mdz: yes, they're been greatly reduced since I first proposed them and pitti seems happy with the last review he gave
<mdz> Riddell: if it has SRU approval, then I'm OK with it
<pitti> oh, I still need to review your latest corrections, I think
<cjwatson> the upgrader tar was rejected because the _all was built in binary-arch; mvo has fixed that
<pitti> Riddell: tomorrow is my next archive/SRU review day, I'll come to that then
* mvo coughs
<Riddell> pitti: great
<cjwatson> (binary reject reasons are hard to dig out of Soyuz)
<mdz> Riddell: all done?
<Riddell> yes, thanks
<mdz> (bdmurray) [WWW]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/63175 - fsck not updating date checked possibly related to Feisty ([WWW]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78801) fsck issue
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 63175 in e2fsprogs "Edgy Beta -- fsck on every (re)boot" [Medium,Confirmed] 
<mdz> iirc we stopped setting the time-based flag in the superblock some time ago
<bdmurray> This is something I have also seen bug reports about in Feisty.
<mdz> [...everyone waits for beta to load...] 
* kylem blinks.
<mdz> perhaps fsck behaviour has changed
<mdz> hmm, wait, that's definitely not right
<mdz> there should be no ...has gone N days without...
<mdz> cjwatson: didn't we disable that in the installer?
<mdz> (because of clock skew madness issues)
<cjwatson> only for dos due to specific brokenness in dosfsck
<cjwatson> er fat
<cjwatson> I think it's a really bad idea to turn off fsck across the board
<cjwatson> I can't imagine I'd have done that
<mdz> or was it the mount count check?
<mdz> the mount count check is not really appropriate for desktop/laptop systems
<cjwatson> TTBOMK the installer hasn't changed
<heno> it still does mount count check, my box did that yesterday
<mdz> I'm not entirely sure about forcing a check of a marked-clean filesystem without user request on desktops
<cjwatson> tune2fs(8) has a rant about why you shouldn't turn off mount count checking
<cjwatson> even if the fs is marked clean
<mdz> the user experience when fsck runs is pretty poor
<cjwatson> we should fix that, but not by disabling it
<ogra> how about setting it to 90 instead of 30
<cjwatson> there's a spec for it too
<kylem> cjwatson, that isn't horribly valid now that we have CRC checks on DMA to ide disks and such...
<mdz> yeah, we've talked about it for a  while
<heno> mine was some odd number yesterday like 22
<Mithrandir> fsck+usplash you mean?
<Seveas> [if beta remains slow: just disable redirection on the old launchpad.net frontpage :)] 
<cjwatson> Mithrandir: yes
<Mithrandir> that's feisty+1 material, though.
<cjwatson> kylem: I think "kernel bugs" still applies ;-)
<cjwatson> (given that ext3 oopsed several times on me not that long ago ...)
<kylem> cjwatson, nah. :)
<kylem> it's perfect, it just doesn't like you. ;-)
<pitti> heno: IIRC they are all 'almost prime' to make it less likely to get fscks on multiple partitions at the same time
<heno> ok
<pitti> heno: (in fact the ones I saw were pimes; 23, 29, 31, and such)
<mvo> we could implement someting so that the user can skip/stop the check at least
<cjwatson> anyway, does somebody want to volunteer to sort that bug out?
<pkl_> kylem: that's not what Andrew Morton called it at Fosdem :-)
<Seveas> pkl_, :)
<cjwatson> I don't think attempting to either (a) debug it on the fly in the meeting or (b) redesign the entire system in the meeting is a good idea
<mdz> cjwatson: agreed
<kylem> cjwatson, i don't know... i did a feisty daily install on monday with nothing wrong with fsck... but, yeah, another place.
<cjwatson> can anyone on the team reproduce this problem?
<mdz> cjwatson: why don't you and bdmurray follow up after the meeting and allocate someone to help
<cjwatson> or rather, has anyone reproduced it?
<cjwatson> sure
<bdmurray> cjwatson: I thought you mentioned it happened to ogra after installing Feisty.
<mdz> I've never seen it; it sounds like it probably happens when the clock is borked
<cjwatson> ogra's education rather than distro thoughe
<cjwatson> -e
<ogra> :P
<ogra> i havent seen it today during testing
<cjwatson> ogra: no disparagement intended, but your priorities lie in different places and we don't manage you :-)
<ogra> it happened on all herds to me
<mdz> I expect that setting the hardware clock to zero would reproduce it
<kylem> might be worth asking marc, he does a lot of installs. :)
<pitti> I did lots of test installs recently and never saw it
<cjwatson> ACTION: cjwatson/bdmurray to find somebody to fix 63175
<mdz> ok
<cjwatson> let's move on
<mdz> (mvo) use of XS-Vcs-* in debian/control [WWW]  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2007-March/000414.html
<ogra> i'm happy to help though
<cjwatson> mvo: a fine idea
<mvo> XS-Vcs-bzr is about making the transition to bzr maintained packages easier. A lot are maintained in bzr already and the number is growing, but a lot are not.
<mvo> I would like to proposed that if you see  (e.g. during a transition) a XS-Vcs-bzr field, commit directly or notify the maintainer. If you maintain your packages in bzr, add this tag to debian/control so that people touching the package know to send notification or commit into the bzr tree
<mdz> mvo: this belongs on ubuntu-devel as it's directly relevant to development and needs feedback from people actively developing
<mvo> mdz: yeah, my bad. shall I just re-send there?
<Mithrandir> mvo: how would that field look when the source is in the package?
<pitti> mvo: that needs some tool support, though
<mdz> mvo: please do, yes.  I'll replay my comments there
<cjwatson> Mithrandir: it should be pushed to bazaar.launchpad.net anyway for the packages we maintain
<pitti> mvo: apt-get source at least warning you or so
<mdz> in order for this to work well, I expect we need to find some way to detect the case where a bzr-maintained package is being uploaded without updating bzr
<mvo> pitti: we could add this
<cjwatson> if you have an example of one maintained by somebody else that isn't pushed anywhere else, feel free to bring it up, but otherwise that seems academic
<mdz> and error out (overridably)
<Mithrandir> I have played with the idea of making the casper build fail if you have uncommitted changes.
<Mithrandir> (with an override mechanism, yes. :-)
<mdz> we could require that the build be done from bzr, but that may not be appropriate in all cases
<cjwatson> (speaking of which, the debian-maintainer-field error needs to be overridable)
<Keybuk> cjwatson: thinking of a particular example?
<LaserJock> people just building packages at home
<cjwatson> Keybuk: we've had a number of complaints from people building local versions of *ubuntu* packages that haven't had their source changed yet
<seb128_> yeah, it's pretty annoying to rebuild debug packages
<cjwatson> it's obviously a bug that it doesn't use dpkg-source's normal errors-can-downgrade-to-warnings mechanism
<cjwatson> anyway, sorry, this is just a bug rant, not meeting fodder
<Keybuk> *nods*
<mdz> tricky problem to get the check right often enough
<Keybuk> the recent dch handling where you couldn't *not* get "ubuntuN" on the end annoyed me
<mdz> if only debian required debian.org maintainer addresses...
<doko> and its common to have "<releasename>" instead of "ubuntu" in the version
<mdz> doko: false negatives are a minor issue, false positives are bad
<mdz> which is sort of an argument for it being a warning instead of an error
<mdz> except that builds are so noisy that nobody sees warnings
<doko> add banner to build-essential
<cjwatson> even without tool support, XS-VCS-Bzr would be a win for people who practice some degree of diligence, since it would save them time having to go to BzrMaintainedPackages all the time
<mdz> perhaps we should downgrade to a warning for release, to avoid interfering with local builds
<cjwatson> doko: hah
<mdz> cjwatson: and it would increase the chances of that page being kept up-to-date
<cjwatson> make it controlled by an environment variable that all the distro team set but nobody else has to
<mdz> or rather, replacing it with something autogenerated which would be more likely up-to-date
<cjwatson> UBUNTU_I_AM_A_DEVELOPER=1
<mdz> grep ubuntu $DEBEMAIL
<Keybuk> DEBMAIL~=ubuntu.com ?
<pitti> $DEBEMAIL ~= ubuntu
<cjwatson> yes!
<pitti> Keybuk: heh, snap
<cjwatson> then it can fail hard
<mdz> pitti: will you take the action for that?
<pitti> mdz: fine for me
<mdz> ACTION: pitti to fix up dpkg-dev to only error hard if $DEBEMAIL contains ubuntu
<mdz> (Riddell) do we want hwdb ask-email ?
<pitti> mdz: (what a nasty hack...)
<Riddell> I thought lifeless had implemented this in the gnome hwdb client ages ago
<mdz> Riddell: if the question is whether we want hwdb-client to ask for an optional email address, yes, absolutely
<mdz> pitti: nasty hacks R us
<Riddell> but I looked today and he hadn't
<mdz> Riddell: I remember talking to lifeless about it
<mdz> and I thought it was done too
<Riddell> mdz: there was a branch, but no commits
<mdz> Riddell: maybe chase lifeless and see if he has code elsewhere?
<Riddell> mdz: I did, he doesn't
<mdz> oh
<Riddell> I'm happy to do it in both frontends if we don't mind breaching feature freeze
<mdz> Riddell: if the release team is happy, I'm happy. it's very much worth having
<Riddell> I'll code it up and ask the release team to review
<Mithrandir> as long as it's small enough, I'm fine with it.
<mdz> great
<Mithrandir> note that we're actually quite close to release now.  Release is in a month and a half, betafreeze is in two weeks.
<mdz> Mithrandir: speaking of freezes and such, how are we doing?
<doko> Mithrandir: do we have results from the rebuild tests?
<Mithrandir> mdz: the targetted bug list is at ~100 bugs right now, which is too much.  I'll go through it and see what low hanging fruit there's to catch there as well as prod people to concentrate on the important bugs.
<Riddell> ACTION: jonathan do implement ask-email in hwdb-client
<Riddell> s/do/to/
<Mithrandir> doko: I haven't received those yet, no.  I'll follow up on that.
<Mithrandir> ACTION: tfheen to get rebuild test results and publish them somewhere.
<mdz> Mithrandir: I feel like we should have a policy about targeted bugs and assignment
<mdz> there should be a path by which bugs which are clearly real targets should be assigned as a matter of course
<mdz> Mithrandir: do you review that from time to time?
<Mithrandir> mdz: so far I've encouraged people to add a milestone if they believe a bug is important; the team is my ears and eyes.
<Mithrandir> yes, I try to go through the list of bugs and downgrade the ones I don't think are really RC.
<mdz> Mithrandir: but it happens occasionally that a bug is targeted without having an assignee yet
<ogra> Riddell, ??
<Mithrandir> mdz: yes, I'll get that fixed when I go through the list next time.
<mdz> in which case there's no one for you to nag
<Riddell> ogra: see discussion 21:50
<Mithrandir> I'll find somebody. :-)
<Mithrandir> I've also gone through the list of specs and will talk with the responsible people to see what needs to be deferred and what can be rescued.
<mdz> there should be plenty of bandwidth for RC bugs now that we're in feature freeze
<mdz> that's our focus
<ogra> Riddell, i dont think it was ever implemente3d and lifeless refused to touch the GUI
<Riddell> ogra: quite a hard feature to implement without touching the GUI :)
<mdz> ok
<mdz> any other business for the meeting?
<ogra> Riddell, exactly :)
<heno> I'll just post the LP stuff:
<heno> == Launchpad meeting report ==
<heno> * I raised the performance issues in beta. They will do some profiling and esp. look at how the JS and CSS files are loaded, perhaps inlining some of it
<heno> * That also raised the general point of how to file or tag bugs that are beta-specific (like performance or the failure to fit in a small window). The suggestion of a 'beta' tag was rejected. It was suggested we use the tag '1.0' (which means fix this before 1.0 is out, so not quite the same IMO)
<pitti> mdz: a small announcement
<Mithrandir> heno: is there any data we can provide which helps the developers fix the performance bugs?
<heno> Mithrandir: yes, I think you did some comparative timings AFAIR
<heno> that should be useful
<heno> or use Firebug I think it's called
<Mithrandir> yes, I used firebug and looked at the load times.
<cjwatson> heno: 1.0 seems like a reasonable default for regressions in the beta from current production
<heno> which analyses traffic on page loads
<heno> cjwatson: that's true
<heno> these are basically regressions
<heno> though they may also be beta-specific nits
<heno> not worthy of 'fix-before-1.0' status
<heno> anyway ...
<mdz> ok
<cjwatson> it's not clear to me when something is strictly beta-specific (i.e. something that will only be true of the beta and somehow not true when it is deployed on launchpad.net)
<mdz> we're out of time
* pitti raises hand
<mdz> pitti: please go ahead
<pitti> I have a little surprise, especially for crashmaster seb128 and segvmaster dholbach: just three minutes before the meeting I got the apport fakechroot stuff working
<pitti> i. e. I can now build and use chroots for apport-retracing entirely with user privileges
<pitti> right now you still have to call it manually, but that at least solves the 'I do not have this architecture' problem, as well as bandwidth issues
<dholbach> pitti: YOU ROCK :)
<seb128_> rock on ;)
* seb128_ hugs pitti
<mdz> pitti: neat!
* dholbach hugs pitti
<pitti> it should be relatively easy to search for bugs with unretraced crashes and add comments with debug stack traces automatically; I'll do that in my 'after hours' in the next time
* dholbach hugs seb128 too
<pitti> to roll this out to the porter machines in the DC, I just need RT#26845 fixes (installation of fake[ch] root on porter machines); maybe I can get a little pushing from the management folks to get this sorted out soon? :)
<ogra> pitti, you made fakechroot work ???? !!!!
* ogra hugs pitti
* seb128 hugs dholbach back
<mdz> pitti: if you write a document explaining how to do it, that can be farmed out to the QA team
<pitti> mdz: right, but my idea is to make it fully automatic
<iwj__> pitti: I should look at that, as I think I might want to attach some of my autopkgtest tendrils if you have a fakeroot-based chroot builder.
<pitti> file a crash bug, half an hour later you have the retrace
<mdz> pitti: sure, that'd obviously be better
<iwj__> (Well done, btw.)
<pitti> iwj__: sure, I have it in a Python class
<iwj__> Right.  I'll ask you about it tomorrow.
<pitti> mdz: the only problem is that fakeroot needs to be apt-get isntall'ed, because of this /usr/lib/libfakeroot.so stub
<pitti> that's why I need that RT
<mdz> pitti: I'm sure we can get that installed on a server in the DC
<ogra> pitti, does that mean i can use fakechroot in a normal way for ubuntu systems as well ?
<pitti> ogra: well, why not?
<pitti> ogra: the package itself is ages old
<pitti> of course it's pretty limited, but it's just perfect for apport-retrace's sake
<ogra> i know but i didnt manage to get an ubuntu chroot working in edgy
<pitti> anyway, technical stuff, not for the meeting
<mdz> right, truly out of time now
<mdz> thanks, everyone
<mdz> good night
<pitti> thanks everyone!
<kwwii> night all
<iwj__> Goodnight.
<mvo> goodnight
<bdmurray> good night
<dholbach> gnight
<asac> bye
<doko> good night
<pkl_> night.
<tkamppeter> bye
<NilssitO> asac ping
<asac> NilssitO: hi :)
<Wiesel> hi
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-03-02
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 05 Mar 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 06 Mar 18:00 UTC: Mozilla Team | 06 Mar 20:00 UTC: MOTU meeting | 07 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 08 Mar 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Mar 10:00 UTC: LoCo Team
* mode/#ubuntu-meeting [+o Seveas]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-meeting [+b *!*@ubuntu/member/ryanakca]  by Seveas
* mode/#ubuntu-meeting [-o Seveas]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-meeting [+o Seveas]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-meeting [-b *!*@ubuntu/member/ryanakca]  by Seveas
* mode/#ubuntu-meeting [-o Seveas]  by ChanServ
<ryanakca_> Seveas: thanks. mind doing the same for -motu... ?
<Seveas> ryanakca_, I'm no op there
<ryanakca_> kk
<ryanakca_> thanks anywais
<Seveas> poked riddell
<ryanakca_> kk, thanks
<Seveas> you're good to go
<Toadstool> ryanakca_: you're unbanned from -motu ;)
<kdefreak> Thanks Seveas
* kdefreak hates ice storms
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-03-03
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> anthony.freenode.net
<stgraber> @schedule Prague
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Prague: 05 Mar 16:00: Kernel Team | 06 Mar 19:00: Mozilla Team | 06 Mar 21:00: MOTU meeting | 07 Mar 13:00: Edubuntu | 08 Mar 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Mar 11:00: LoCo Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-03-04
<jonno> anybody in here?
<jonno> i have a question
<boredandblogging> i'm here
<jonno> ok
<jonno> i want to know how to enable dual monitor support
<jonno> i have Ubuntu 6.10
<boredandblogging> what video card?
<jonno> erm
<jonno> NVidia
<jonno> lemme look
<jonno> NV34 [GeForce FX 5200] 
<boredandblogging> hold on
<jonno> ok
<boredandblogging> try these directions: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/XineramaHowTo
<boredandblogging> or http://doc.gwos.org/index.php/DualMonitors
<boredandblogging> gotta head off to bed, but you might have better luck asking in #ubuntu
* jonno sighs releif
<jonno> thanks alot
<boredandblogging> no problem
<jonno> im a noob at Ubuntu
<jonno> just got it a week ago
<jonno> i love, it and im never going back to Windows
<boredandblogging> haha, awesome!
<jonno> lol
<jonno> Ever heard of Taerom?
<jonno> thats the guy who sent it to me
<boredandblogging> nope, but I'm glad you did
<jonno> yaeh
<jonno> so am i
<boredandblogging> later
<jonno> every other day id have issues with something
<jonno> but i havent had one problem yet
<Hobbsee> jonno: boredandblogging please go to #ubuntu - this is for meetings *only*
<jonno> im sorry
<jonno> thank you boredandblogging
<boredandblogging> np
<nixternal> @schedule chicago
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 05 Mar 09:00: Kernel Team | 06 Mar 12:00: Mozilla Team | 06 Mar 14:00: MOTU meeting | 07 Mar 06:00: Edubuntu | 08 Mar 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Mar 05:00: LoCo Team
<stgraber> @schedule Zurich
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Zurich: 05 Mar 16:00: Kernel Team | 06 Mar 19:00: Mozilla Team | 06 Mar 21:00: MOTU meeting | 07 Mar 13:00: Edubuntu | 08 Mar 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Mar 11:00: LoCo Team
<daviey> @schedule london
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/London: 05 Mar 15:00: Kernel Team | 06 Mar 18:00: Mozilla Team | 06 Mar 20:00: MOTU meeting | 07 Mar 12:00: Edubuntu | 08 Mar 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Mar 10:00: LoCo Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-02-25
<janquark> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: February 25 2008, 19:11:21 - Next meeting: Platform Team in 1 day
<mruiz> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 27 Feb 07:00: Platform Team | 27 Feb 12:00: Education Team | 27 Feb 21:00: Server Team | 28 Feb 14:00: Desktop Team | 29 Feb 12:00: MOTU | 05 Mar 07:00: Platform Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-02-26
<AlgorithmicContr> Morning gentlemen
<mruiz> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 27 Feb 07:00: Platform Team | 27 Feb 12:00: Education Team | 27 Feb 21:00: Server Team | 28 Feb 14:00: Desktop Team | 29 Feb 12:00: MOTU | 05 Mar 07:00: Platform Team
<mruiz> @schedule santiago
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Santiago: 27 Feb 04:00: Platform Team | 27 Feb 09:00: Education Team | 27 Feb 18:00: Server Team | 28 Feb 11:00: Desktop Team | 29 Feb 09:00: MOTU | 05 Mar 04:00: Platform Team
<emgent> @scedule rome
<emgent> @shcedule rome
<emgent> gh
<emgent> @schedule rome
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 27 Feb 08:00: Platform Team | 27 Feb 13:00: Education Team | 27 Feb 22:00: Server Team | 28 Feb 15:00: Desktop Team | 29 Feb 13:00: MOTU | 05 Mar 08:00: Platform Team
<emgent> @schedule rome
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 27 Feb 08:00: Platform Team | 27 Feb 13:00: Education Team | 27 Feb 22:00: Server Team | 28 Feb 15:00: Desktop Team | 29 Feb 13:00: MOTU | 05 Mar 08:00: Platform Team
<DPic> hello
<johnc4510-laptop> hey
<DPic> here for the marketing meeting, right?
<johnc4510-laptop> yep
<DPic> great
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-02-27
<DPic> Okay, who's here?
 * johnc4510-laptop +1
<johnc4510-laptop> hmmm
<DPic> Well, we could start talking but maybe it's be best to wait a few minutes..
<DPic> it'd*
<johnc4510-laptop> DPic: yes
<johnc4510-laptop> and tyche is here for meeting too
<DPic> cool
 * johnc4510-laptop anyone else here for a marketing meeting?
<maccam94> i heard there was one from DPic
<johnc4510-laptop> ah :)
<maccam94> supposedly starting... 15 minutes ago
<johnc4510-laptop> yep
<johnc4510-laptop> not many have shown up
<DPic> yeah, disappointing :/ but we can still discuss plans
<johnc4510-laptop> ok, we better start then, i have to leave in 40 mins. now
<DPic> okay
<maccam94> so
<DPic> so, for the hardy release, we want to have a big release campaign
<DPic> so far we know we want to press release the local teams can adopt and release themselves
<DPic> any other ideas?
<maccam94> we need to get fliers in places where people will pick them up
<DPic> and for that, we need fliers
<maccam94> indeed
<johnc4510-laptop> are there premade fliers from earlier releases
<johnc4510-laptop> or
<maccam94> so they probably need tweaking
<DPic> yeah
<johnc4510-laptop> have we checked the art team for new ones for hardy heron
<DPic> we could always start fresh and just use the past fliers for ideas
<maccam94> the art team doesn't seem.... very "with" it, but i'm sure if we asked them they'd make one
<DPic> we haven't, does the art team make fliers and those sorts of materials?
<DPic> that would be good. i'll get in contact with them
<johnc4510-laptop> not sure, but they could point us to the newest artwork for hardy
<maccam94> i think it's supposed to be fairly similar to gutsy
<DPic> true
<maccam94> the big redesign got postponed
<DPic> yeah, that's probably for the best
<maccam94> :-\
<maccam94> i would have liked the refresh, considering it's now competing against glossy UI's like OSX's and Vista's
<DPic> i think they need more time to work on it, but just a simple refresh would have been nice
<DPic> so, for the press release-- how can we make that effective?
<johnc4510-laptop> we _can_ use ideas from past fliers for the content
<DPic> ^ yeah, already said that :)
<johnc4510-laptop> kk
<DPic> we really want to start being a communication and resources hub for local marketing
<DPic> we need to be able to contact all the LoCo's for whatever out current campaign is
<DPic> which we can do through the loco contacts list
<johnc4510-laptop> canonical puts out a press release themselves so we need something we can use to blog and digg etc and to let the loco's use
<DPic> yeah, out own press release wouldn't be necessary
<DPic> but we should focus on attracting more people who wouldn't normally hear about ubuntu
<DPic> i created this page which we should work on a lot https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoActivism
<johnc4510-laptop> looking
<DPic> as well as https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoMediaCoverage
<johnc4510-laptop> ok, as a start, *I* would like to see us getting the loco's involved in distributing fliers about the upcoming release
<DPic> me too
<DPic> and CD's too, of course
<johnc4510-laptop> you are going to have a hard time with cd's i think
<DPic> teams can't solely operate online, they have to get out and hit the streets to erach out to more people
<somerville32> Maybe create a template letter to send to local media agencies?
<DPic> somerville32: canonical issues their own press release that can be used
<johnc4510-laptop> most of the loco's however would be receptive to distributing fliers
<somerville32> DPic: Okay. So how about encouraging loco teams to forward that press release to local media agencies?
<johnc4510-laptop> i think somerville32 is meaning something the loco's could send to their local media
<johnc4510-laptop> somerville32: :)
<DPic> yeah, definitely
<somerville32> I'm sure that some local agencies would print it if not for lack of something else :P
<DPic> the loco media coverage page is a good guide for that
<boredandblogging> locos probably want to do some customization to it
<DPic> why will CD's be difficult?
<DPic> they might not be immediately available
<somerville32> Maybe we could have an easy step program? "Want to help promote Ubuntu 8.04? Step 1. Step 3. Step 4."
<DPic> but when they are, they should be distributed as widely as possible
<desertc> specifically about the next ubuntu release, maybe even covering a release party.
<boredandblogging> in reality, LoCos need to make their own CDs
<maccam94> really?
<boredandblogging> approved LoCos get a couple hundred
<johnc4510-laptop> DPic: we could have the loco's insert times and dates of loco installfest on the fliers to give access to cd's
<maccam94> they probably wouldn't come out as nice as official ones tho
<boredandblogging> if you aren't approved, you might get 20 or 30 max
<boredandblogging> asking all the individual loco members to request CDs might help, but don't depend on shipit
<johnc4510-laptop> no
<DPic> well keep in mind, individuals on launchpad who are active can get ten-- and if each unapproved team has several active people on launchpad, they can get a hundred or so as well
<johnc4510-laptop> boredandblogging: hey
<DPic> fliering and postering is something we should add to the loco activism page
<DPic> and we could link to our resources page when we have uploaded thos kinds of materials
<johnc4510-laptop> as i said earlier, let the loco's use the release flier to promote installfest or release parties in their area
<boredandblogging> have you guys looked at the old spreadbuntu stuff?
<DPic> i have, yeah
<johnc4510-laptop> boredandblogging: i have not yet
<johnc4510-laptop> :(
<johnc4510-laptop> but there should be good ideas there
<DPic> i put the useful stuff here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Materials
<DPic> as far as materials go
<boredandblogging> http://doc.ubuntu.com/~marketing/spreadubuntu/
<desertc> boredandblogging: you mean spreadUbuntu?
<boredandblogging> desertc: hah, yeah
<boredandblogging> it can be used for a starting point
<boredandblogging> or just for ideas
<johnc4510-laptop> agreed
<desertc> spreadbuntu is a windowing theme
<johnc4510-laptop> DPic: is that a flier or a cd cover?
<DPic> which?
<johnc4510-laptop> last link, under flier
<desertc> boredandblogging: yeah, spent a lot of time looking at DIY marketing, actually
<boredandblogging> need to encourage locos to think big, like get a huge banner and hang it where a lot of people will see it
<johnc4510-laptop> DPic: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Materials
<desertc> boredandblogging: How many of these assets do you consider ready-to-use ??
<DPic> johnc4510-laptop: it's a flier
<johnc4510-laptop> kk
<johnc4510-laptop> and post the fliers anyplace that will let them
<johnc4510-laptop> and they should be asking to post it anyplace the visit during the day
<johnc4510-laptop> fliers are cheap and something anyone in a loco can do
<desertc> you need a double sided print for those fliers, right?
<desertc> flyers (silly spell check)  ;)
<DPic> desertc: yeah
<DPic> is there anything else that people can do for the hardy release?
<desertc> that increases the cost of production by quite a bit, just fyi
<DPic> well, we'll have more soon
<DPic> that one is just from the spreadUbuntu thing
<DPic> contacting computer retailers might be good to request ubuntu and shot it off. but that's something that doesn't have to just be for the hardy release
<DPic> show it off*
<boredandblogging> need to get the locos excited about hardy
<maccam94> computer retailers generally depend on windows for business
<johnc4510-laptop> we should keep the flyers to _one_ sided productions i think
<maccam94> there isn't an incentive to push an alternative
<DPic> johnc4510-laptop: that wouldn't be hard to do. i don't think having double-sided options would be a bad thing though
<desertc> boredandblogging: could canonical get the locos an advanced press release on the features of hardy?  else, is there a definitive list of new features that we can start passing around to locos?
<maccam94> it's at feature freeze
<DPic> Maybe what we should do, is write up press releases not for the media, but for loco teams to read what we have going and what we want them to do
<maccam94> so yeah there should be a list up
<maccam94> i can check
<boredandblogging> yeah, features are set
<johnc4510-laptop> not a bad thing, but it's not needed i don't think  we want to make this as easy on the loco's as possible, and the most cost efficient
<boredandblogging> as for the canonical press release, I wouldn't really depend on them
<desertc> boredandblogging: right - I understand what you're saying
<boredandblogging> think if we can come up with something general, and let the locos customize it, it would be good enough
<desertc> so it sounds like we need to put together a short press release based on the hardy features - something in layman's term.  one page should be ample.
<johnc4510-laptop> boredandblogging: nice
<DPic> we don't want to just have one thing. we'll craete a bunch of things that loco's can either use directly or customize for themselves
<maccam94> um
<maccam94> one thing
<desertc> well - one thing would be the start of many things  ;)
<maccam94> we should list ALL the features of ubuntu
<maccam94> GENERAL things
<maccam94> because these fliers aren't for people UPGRADING ubuntu
<desertc> that's a good point
<maccam94> they're for people who *don't use it yet*
<johnc4510-laptop> should point out the advantages of ubuntu and open source
<desertc> or - at least include the new features AND the existing features
<desertc> however, the newsworthy part is the new release, of course
<DPic> i remember seeing an article on digg about what was wrong with the ubuntu press release for feisty and how it should have been different
<DPic> let me try and find it
<maccam94> yeah me too
<boredandblogging> no version numbers
<johnc4510-laptop> should have links to ubuntu, forums and how the community supports with help
<boredandblogging> like gnome 2.x.y
<johnc4510-laptop> agreed
<boredandblogging>                                                  
<boredandblogging>                                                  
<johnc4510-laptop> lol
<boredandblogging> http://blog.gobanquet.com/index.php/why-ubuntu-804-needs-better-marketing/
<boredandblogging> no clue what happened there
<johnc4510-laptop> hee hee
<desertc> one challenge will be getting someone in the locos talking to the media.  most likely they have no contacts.  there might need to be some coaching for doing it
<DPic> thanks for finding that, i couldn't find it for some reason
<maccam94> me neither
<tyche> Yes, please.  Coaching is definitely needed.
<maccam94> lol
<DPic> desertc: yeah, and any people who are experienced with the media should contribute to the loco media coverage page
<boredandblogging> encourage locos to create some kind of kit, with documentation and CD and send it to some local media
<desertc> we shouldn't assume that if we make a press release on a wiki that the locos will make the effort to get it in papers.
<johnc4510-laptop> desertc: we need to get the team leads to handle that i think
<johnc4510-laptop> in fact as we get further along we should start cultivating the team leads to get them on board with this
<DPic> there is the loco contacts list
<desertc> my expectation is that even getting a few locos to get this in action will be challenging, so we should start with just a few - maybe provide coaching for the approved locos and see what happens.  It's going to be a learning experience for everyone
<johnc4510-laptop> DPic: yes
<johnc4510-laptop> it can be reached from the usteams page i think
 * johnc4510-laptop sorry i've got to run    :(
<johnc4510-laptop> i'll catch up from my logs
<DPic> alright thanks for showing up
<DPic> well we definitely have a good amount to work with now
<DPic> should we move onto talking about a meeting schedule?
<somerville32> :)
<boredandblogging> sure
<DPic> okay, so how often should we meet, and what should we do about timing (since we're a global team)?
<desertc> most of us are from the us time zones
<DPic> okay so then around this time shouldn't be a problem
<desertc> I know I was thinking about the us-locos in this discussion
<DPic> should we meet once a month, or twice a month?
<boredandblogging> why not do another one in 2 weeks
<desertc> for me, feel free to ping me whenever - if I'm online, then I'm available to help
<boredandblogging> if no one shows up
<DPic> boredandblogging: in 2 weeks if no one shows up?
<desertc> I will work on writing up some notes for a press release - need to work on writing a linux speech anyway this week ;)
<somerville32> If someone would fix the Fridge's calendar... I wouldn't miss any of the meetings because google would page my blackberry
<DPic> what's wrong with the fridge's calendar?
<somerville32> Won't work with google calendar
<DPic> ah
<somerville32> Some drupal module bug or something that is apparently fixed upstream
<DPic> i see
<DPic> so we all agree, every 2 weeks, at 00:00 UTC?
<tyche> +1
<somerville32> +1
<boredandblogging> might also want stop by the -locoteams channel
<boredandblogging> and see if anyone there has any ideas
<DPic> and always on wednesday?
<boredandblogging> or what they are planning to do
<DPic> boredandblogging: good idea
<DPic> does this day of the week always work for everyone?
<boredandblogging> sure
<maccam94> sure
<DPic> great
<tyche> fine
<DPic> anything else to talk about?
<DPic> i'll get working on the notes for this meeting, and drawing up a plan for us
<DPic> meeting adjourned?
<boredandblogging> sure
<DPic> okay thanks everyone
<desertc> !seen
<ubotu> The seen function has not been operational for a long time.  Use /msg seenserv seen nickname instead.
<michaelramm_mac> did i miss the marketing mtg?
<michalski> no, starts in 2 hours
<michalski> oh wait marketing,yes
<michaelramm_mac> d'oh. darn UTC time!!!
<michaelramm_mac> thanks
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Platform Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 27 Feb 12:00 UTC: Education Team | 27 Feb 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 28 Feb 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 29 Feb 12:00 UTC: MOTU | 05 Mar 07:00 UTC: Platform Team
<evand> good evening
<Mithrandir> good early morning
<bryce> heya
 * ogra tries to get his eyes open ...
<evand> heh
 * Hobbsee throws some sand at ogra
<ogra> Hobbsee, that only helps if to match a moment where i actuallly have them open :P
<ogra> (and am not yawning)
 * Mithrandir tickles Hobbsee
 * Hobbsee tickles Mithrandir back, and stomps on his feet, before he levitates
<calc> hi
 * cjwatson blinks a few times
<doko> good morning
 * ArneGoetje waves
<TheMuso> Hey folks.
<cjwatson> asac,slangasek: ping
 * TheMuso looks out the window and hopes the storm doesn't come this way...
<slangasek> cjwatson: hi
<Hobbsee> evening, cjwatson.  here's your coffee
<cjwatson> heh
<Hobbsee> just don't fall asleep in it :P
<ogra> if its hot enough that will wake him up :)
<TheMuso> aww! And I thought everybody on the team was a morning person. :)
<cjwatson> ok, just missing asac - let's start anyway and hope he shows up
 * ogra slowly feels the healing power of caffeine in the morning
<cjwatson> first off, activity reports: I have four out of nine this week
<ogra> mine just hit the list ...
<cjwatson> please send these *before* the meeting
<ogra> (sorry)
<cjwatson> next the real agenda
<slangasek> would you prefer if I started sending mine end of day Monday?
<cjwatson>  * Actions from last week
<cjwatson>   * Result of multi-monitor discussion with desktop team? (Bryce)
<cjwatson> bryce: how did this go?
 * asac hides
<cjwatson> slangasek: no, yours was fine, I get up a little early before the meeting so I can catch up on them
<slangasek> ok
<bryce> cjwatson, it's come along fairly well
<bryce> cjwatson: I have debs and screenshots up at:  http://people.ubuntu.com/~bryce/Testing/XrandrGui/
<bryce> right now I'm mostly waiting on seb128 to review/upload things
<bryce> I was hoping to get some feedback from him on the integration, but I gather he's been busy with the new gnome stuff
<bryce> the gui installs and runs, and it seems to work (but I found a bug when using it on a KVM)
<bryce> most of the work has been packaging - a lot of autoconf/automake hackery
<cjwatson> aside from the text about F9 :-), that looks pretty good; no facility for choosing a different driver?
<bryce> right, this only uses xrandr interfaces
<bryce> screenshot 1 and 2 are before / after
<cjwatson> I just want to make sure that if we drop displayconfig-gtk we're not reliant on anything it does
<bryce> screenshot 2 corresponds to what's in the debs
<cjwatson> ah
<bryce> well, displayconfig-gtk is essentially a fancy xorg.conf editor
<bryce> this new tool does everything through run-time interfaces, so anything that requires xorg.conf modification is going to be out of scope for it
<cjwatson> perhaps we should prepare some release notes text about how to do anything that's dropped
<bryce> ok
<cjwatson> ok, thanks
<cjwatson>  * 5-a-day
<cjwatson> Jono has asked that I remind everyone of the existence of 5-a-day (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/5-A-Day) and encourage all of you to take part
<cjwatson> err, where relevant anyway
<cjwatson> even if you're already doing equivalent bug work (which most of you should be, at a minimum), please also help to spread the message
<evand> will do
<cjwatson> the wiki page has pointers to some tools to help with this
<calc> ok
<doko_> hmm, so I should just call 5-a-day before a package upload?
<cjwatson> that's one reasonable approach, yes
<cjwatson> if you're feeling particularly enthusiastic you could hook it into dupload ;-)
<doko_> ok, will do.
<cjwatson> but the important bit is publicising to the community that this is something that the Ubuntu community does as a matter of course
<TheMuso> I've certainly been thinking that it *could* be a way to encourage people testing a11y to file bugs, as they just about always post to mailing lists...
<TheMuso> But other than that, I'll likely jump in and participate as well.
<cjwatson> hmm, I think filing bugs is just about the only bug activity that's not part of 5-a-day
<cjwatson> the point is to get the bug count down :-)
<TheMuso> right
<calc> file more bugs so you can turn around and close them? ;-)
<cjwatson> I think that's enough on that topic :-)
<cjwatson>  * Final call on dmraid (Luke)
<TheMuso> Right.
<TheMuso> If people haven't been following my reports and other IRC activity, let me bring everybody up to speed.
<TheMuso> For several years, many consumer, and some low-end server boards have been shipping with what is known as fake raid.
<TheMuso> Basically, the BIOS of the disk controller writes special metadata to a pair or so of disks, to make them a fake software raid, be it raid 0, 1, or 5.
<TheMuso> Windows drivers for these controllers know what to look for, and transparently read/write this metadata as necessary, with the user not even knowing most of the time that windows is sitting on top of a RAID setup.
<TheMuso> Dmraid is such an interface to this metadata for Linux.
<TheMuso> However, so far from my testing, it doesn't come close to either what the BIOSs can do, or what Windows drivers do in terms of keeping the array consistant.,
<TheMuso> So, with dmraid still not being able to reliably provide event monitoring for failed/degraded arrays, and not being able to rebuild arrays, as well as at least one BIOS on a controller I have always finding array inconsistancies when Linux has touched the array, we need to really consider whether dmraid is something we want for hardy.
<TheMuso> From my point of view, it comes down to whether I keep actively working on it, dispite these issues, or whether I move onto other things, and keep an eye on it for hardy+1.
<calc> perhaps whitelist it on a known working chip/bios-rev basis?
<TheMuso> I have also discovered that kernel patching is required to allow for the use of RAID 5 via dmraid.
<TheMuso> calc: Since it uses metadata on the hard disk, this could be possible, but the fact is, that at least one BIOS I have complains of array inconsistancies after I even do an install onto a dmraid array.
<slangasek> what's the alternative to having dmraid enabled - having no support for the controller, or having support for it as a plain IDE/SCSI controller?
<TheMuso> Another controller I have did not appear to be as strict, but only complained when I degraded the array.
<TheMuso> slangasek: Only supporting it as a standard IDE/SCSI controller.
<TheMuso>  /SATA even
 * slangasek nods
<TheMuso> slangasek: Which means that users who have windows on such an array could very easily destroy it.
<slangasek> oh... :)
<slangasek> but, you're saying that the current code isn't guaranteed to do much better for them?
<TheMuso> slangasek: No it is not.
<ArneGoetje> TheMuso: can we detect this situation and display a warning to the user?
<TheMuso> Especially if the BIOS is as strict as my hpt37x controller supporting fakeraid.
<calc> is the code not working for any of the many different brands, or just not good on certain ones?
<cjwatson> it looks to me that the dmraid program isn't really hooked into device-mapper change events, and that it only erases the metadata if you explicitly tell it to
<TheMuso> calc: I don't know, as I only have 2. The code works, but its a matter of makings ure the array is consistant once Linux shuts down.
<calc> grr hpt is crap, i had trouble with one of those writing into cylinder 0 even when raid wasn't enabled :-\
<calc> overwriting grub bootloader in the process
<calc> TheMuso: ok
<slangasek> hmm, hpt is the one that's now courting Linux
<TheMuso> cjwatson: As I said in my report, there is work going on to get some stuff into the kernel to support dmraid better. There is also more userspace work going on for event monitoring.
<calc> does intel's matrix raid stuff use dmraid?
<cjwatson> TheMuso: was your testing just with the installer, or did you also try editing partitions in a regular system?
<calc> getting intel's fake raid to work (if possible) would probably be a good thing
<cjwatson> TheMuso: the reason I ask is that I notice that the installer integration does not do the same stuff that /etc/init.d/dmraid does on shutdown
<TheMuso> cjwatson: I tried the following: 1) install windows, then Linux. 2) Install Windows, edit partitions, reboot. 3) install Linux only.
<TheMuso> All were caught by the BIOS as possible inconsistancies on the array.
<TheMuso> cjwatson: Well, I even tried hand-deactivating the arrays before rebooting.
<cjwatson> though, I have to say I'm slightly surprised that the partition table is ATARAID metadata as such
<cjwatson> I would have thought that dmraid should present a device to Linux on which parted blindly edits the sectors corresponding to the partition table, which then translate into writes to both disks
<TheMuso> cjwatson: The partition table is totally separate to the metadata.
<TheMuso> The metadata is at the end of the disks. The partition table is where you would normally find it.
<cjwatson> right, so what's the metadata that needs to be updated? would that not normally only be if you added or removed disks, or if disks failed?
<cjwatson> I'm trying to figure out why partitioning changes it
<TheMuso> cjwatson: I don't know without digging into code. My guess something to do with state is stored in metadata, but I think this varies from controller to controller.
<TheMuso> Well as referred to by calc, it could also be a flaky BIOS. There is no newer revisions for the board however.
<TheMuso> And, running WIndows/DOS and doing all manner of parttion edits etc does not seem to bother the BIOS.
<cjwatson> dmraid seems to have explicit BIOS-specific metadata handlers
<TheMuso> Yes it does.
<TheMuso> As all metadata is different from controller to controller.
<calc> bug 8978 refers to the issue i had with hpt controllers doing stupid things
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 8978 in grub "Grub - Error 21 returned" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/8978
<TheMuso> Now. I will be getting a new system in the coming weeks, that will have 2 different dmraid compatible controllers on it. I'll be interested to see how well they are handled. One will be intel, and one will be Gigabyte.
<ogra> i have some edubuntu users using hpt
<asac> hmm, are there actually any bugs filed about these inconsistencies after shutdown?
 * asac looking at dmraid lp bugs page
<TheMuso> However my silicon image controller was not even bothered when Linux was installed. Never tried Windows+linux, as I wanted to move the dmraid testing to another box.
<TheMuso> asac: No, as it is only with cone controller that I get the behavior.
<TheMuso> one
<evand> TheMuso: I have two dmraid systems that were sent to me and can help, as I've also been tasked with similar goals.
<cjwatson> ... so at least one controller *does* work?
<TheMuso> evand: Right, if I were to give you some quick isntructions as to build a modified alternate disk, wuould you mind having a look?
<TheMuso> cjwatson: Yes, for a linux only install.
<TheMuso> I can certainly try it again, if required. Need to card swap, but thats no big deal.
<evand> TheMuso: not at all, I'll make it a top priority.
<cjwatson> that's a little more promising
<TheMuso> cjwatson: However, there is still the issue of not being able to rebuild the array from Linux.
<cjwatson> basically, I'm just aware that this is an increasing target and if we don't get something in I suspect it's going to come up in point releases as a hardware support target anyway
<TheMuso> So at this point, we could certainly blacklist the hpt37xx controller I have.
<TheMuso> cjwatson: Right.
<cjwatson> if it were totally non-functional, I'd agree it doesn't make sense
<cjwatson> but it sounds to me that we have some specific bugs on which we need help from upstream
<TheMuso> cjwatson: I do need to do a dual boot windows test with that silicon controller however to be sure.
<TheMuso> The upstream mailing list is rather quiet. The person at Red Hat who maintains this certainly is working on it, but I think he is also involved with other things.
<TheMuso> I'm downloading fedora 8 as we speak to see if that yields any different results.
<TheMuso> As they've had dmraid in fedora for a few releases now.
<calc> TheMuso: blacklisting probably should be based per bios revision, but that might get complicated
<cjwatson> I think a fairly sane approach would be to move it to main for wider testing for now (since we need it in main in order to have it in the installer), but put a prominent note in the release notes for alpha 6 and beta that we will rip it back out again if test results are unfavourable
<TheMuso> calc: Yeah I'd say it would, but as I said, there is no newer revision for this board, and I can't download an older one to try.
<calc> maybe best to upgrade chipset to most recent bios (where possible) if it doesn't work blacklist the whole chipset for the time being
<cjwatson> how does that sound?
<slangasek> sounds agreeable to me
<ogra> pretty dangerous
<evand> heh
<TheMuso> Note if any testing is to be done, it should be on a clean system so that data loss is no issue.
<cjwatson> ogra: elaborate?
<ogra> since its probably the base of your install people really need to be aware they need to reinstall if it fails
<ogra> i mean
<ogra> its your filesystem
<slangasek> TheMuso: I look forward to your recommended release notes entry ;-)
<cjwatson> we could include a warning in partman-dmraid that this is explicitly experimental and you MUST have backups
<ogra> that needs a very wordy warning
<TheMuso> cjwatson: partman-dmraid already has a warning.
<cjwatson> "NO, REALLY"
<evand> "Type 'Yes, do as I say' to continue" :)
<ogra> i mean, i'm getting mails atm if ltsp is already final for hardy ... from people wanting to use it in production next week (if i dont shout)
<cjwatson>  The support for SATA RAID disks (using dmraid) in the installer is
<cjwatson>  experimental. You should make sure that you have a backup of any
<cjwatson>  data on your system that you do not want to lose!
<cjwatson> [and more]
<TheMuso> Well there is a question that gets asked by partman-dmraid.
<ogra> since "its only about a month")
<TheMuso> cjwatson: As for raid 5 support, I could easily see how well that patch could be adapted for lum perhaps?
<cjwatson> ogra: this is balanced against the fact that you can try to install Ubuntu right now on these systems and it's *guaranteed* to do bad things to your array
<ogra> right
<cjwatson> TheMuso: it came up a little while ago, and I didn't think it was all that important?
<cjwatson> TheMuso: do people need RAID 5 support?
<TheMuso> cjwatson: I don't think that was dmraid related...
<cjwatson> it was some module that had 'dmraid' in its name
<TheMuso> cjwatson: I certainly know intel controllers support it, and some others do.
<cjwatson> dmraid56 IIRC?
<TheMuso> cjwatson: I didn't dig, but I'll ahve a look. It could be the one.
<cjwatson> if it's needed, then I apologise for saying it wasn't - #ubuntu-kernel should be able to help
<TheMuso> Yes there was a post to the kernel list about it, but I  don't think its been acted upon.
<cjwatson> any other questions? I agree that this is an uncomfortable situation
<TheMuso> If you have dmraid compatible controllers that you could spare, testing would be very welcome.
<TheMuso> spare as in, use that machine for testing, with data backed up to a safe place.
<ogra> TheMuso, i'll send a call to the edubuntu list ... o know many of my users have such HW in their ltsp boxes, but dont know if they have spare stuff for testting
<ogra> s/o know/i know/
<TheMuso> ogra: I think its safer if the machine is non-critical at this point. Thanks though./
<ogra> yeah, i'll ask if someone has a spare one to test on
<cjwatson> I'm happy to help review a release notes entry
<cjwatson> ok, one more item from activity reports
<cjwatson>  * need folks with European keyboards to test if dead-keys work when
<cjwatson> using scim-bridge with scim and feedback to me. If this works, we can
<cjwatson> use scim-bridge as default module for scim, as it seems to solve all the
<cjwatson> problems we currently have with scim.
<cjwatson> (arne)
<TheMuso> How complex is os-prober? I'll see if I can also get windows to be detected on a dmraid array.
<cjwatson> os-prober is not too bad; I wrote chunks of it so I can help you with it
<TheMuso> Ok thanks. Ok we can move on now I have my answer. :p
<cjwatson> volunteers for keyboard testing?
<cjwatson> this looks like a five-minute test for a few different people
 * ogra raises hand ....
<TheMuso> If I knew a European keyboard layout, I'd be happy to help. :)
<cjwatson> I don't think us/gb really count
<asac> i have a dead-keys keyboard and could test
<TheMuso> Thats why I said, if I knew a layout.
<ArneGoetje> only those with dead-keys on their hardware keyboard
<ogra> my prob is that all my keyboards are attached to thin clients and the classmate doesnt have a european one ... but i'll arrange something
<cjwatson> ArneGoetje: dead keys are typically implemented in X ...
<cjwatson> not in hardware
<slangasek> ArneGoetje: how does one test the scim-bridge part of this?
<ArneGoetje> well, I mean using a keyboard layout with dead-keys enabled by default
<cjwatson> right
<ArneGoetje> please see my activity report for testing steps
<slangasek> if I toggle input method to SCIM, compose still works better than the GTK default IM, so I'm happy
<cjwatson> ArneGoetje: (perhaps repost that one to ubuntu-devel)
<ogra> all germans who dont use dvorak likely use "de nodeadkeys"
<ArneGoetje> slangasek: you use en_US I suppose?
<ArneGoetje> cjwatson: will do.
<slangasek> ArneGoetje: en_US, with plenty of use of compose; no deadkeys
<ArneGoetje> slangasek: does that one work well when scim is enabled?
<slangasek> it appears to - but I don't have scim-bridge installed yet
<cjwatson> does scim implement the dead-key composition itself, or just pass keycodes through to X?
<ArneGoetje> cjwatson: it should pass it through X when in English mode.
<cjwatson> i.e. is there a possibility that it works for some combinations of dead keys and ordinary keys but not for others?
<cjwatson> ok
<cjwatson> (English => "not CJK", IIRC :-) )
<cjwatson> so in that case a couple of tests ought to be sufficient
<cjwatson> (asac and ogra)
<ArneGoetje> I know it works when scim is set to scim-immodule... but need to test with scim-bridge too
<cjwatson> all right - any other business?
<slangasek> reminder that this Thursday is the UI Freeze
<cjwatson> bryce: that particularly applies to this xrandr gui work
<TheMuso> Ouch.
<TheMuso> re dmraid. :p
<bryce> hrm
<asac> ArneGoetje: ill test right after the meeting and let you know.
<ArneGoetje> asac: thanks.
<bryce> cjwatson: could you prompt the desktop folks to review/upload my patches?  I could really use their help to meet that cutoff
<cjwatson> people will start taking screenshots for documentation, books, etc. at UI freeze and will need to be warned explicitly of changes
<slangasek> I'll send out a more thorough reminder to u-d-a; in the meantime just bear in mind that any changes to UIs (artwork, text strings, etc.) after Thursday need to be coordinated
<ArneGoetje> what is affected by the UI freeze?
<slangasek> ArneGoetje: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserInterfaceFreeze
<cjwatson> ArneGoetje: everything that documenters, translators, et al might need to know about if it changes afterwards
<cjwatson> (to a crude first approximation)
<ArneGoetje> I'm still reshuffeling some font settings and default font packages to be on the first install...
<cjwatson> bryce: ok, noted
<cjwatson> *extra* fonts aren't much of a problem, as nobody's going to take a screenshot of broken stuff for documentation
<ArneGoetje> I mean default fonts
<cjwatson> I mean extra default fonts over what we have now :-)
<ArneGoetje> which fonts are chosen to render a particular script, etc.
<ArneGoetje> cjwatson: ok.
<evand> so then this doesn't cover color changes?  I'm still trying to work out grabbing the right ones from gtk for two different custom widgets.
<cjwatson> ArneGoetje: but if it produces radical changes, please coordinate with the release team
<slangasek> evand: if it's a change that could affect the accuracy of screenshots, it should be communicated
<ArneGoetje> however, for CJK the default font should be changed
<evand> slangasek: noted
<cjwatson> there is a bug about the look-and-feel of the new ubiquity timezone widget
<cjwatson> would be worth seeing what can be done about that before Thu
<evand> indeed, I did catch that one
<evand> I'm tempted to zoom in even further
<evand> so there's more spacing
<cjwatson> I have noticed that it's quite difficult to land on a particular point
<cjwatson> particularly given that the map moves as you move the mouse pointer over it, so it effectively ends up moving at twice the speed you expect
<cjwatson> but that might be tolerable with more space to work with
<evand> if it's still noticable I'll work on smoothing it out and slowing it down.
<cjwatson> ok, we're over time and should probably take this to other channels
<cjwatson> thanks, everyone
<asac> thanks
<cjwatson> I think I'm going to go and have a nap :)
<ArneGoetje> thanks
<slangasek> thanks
<TheMuso> Thanks, will get minutes done tomorrow my time.
<cjwatson> TheMuso: cheers
<calc> goodnight :)
<cjwatson> late reminder, please look at http://people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach/sponsoring
 * asac looking
<cjwatson> if you have anything with your name against it, particularly if it's old, please do something about it; we need to be responsive to people submitting patches
<bryce> cya
<evand> goodnight, good morning, and good afternoon, where applicable.
<TheMuso> calc: Oh yes, Intel's matrix raid or whatever it is is dmraid so far as I know.
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 27 Feb 12:00 UTC: Education Team | 27 Feb 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 28 Feb 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 29 Feb 12:00 UTC: MOTU | 05 Mar 07:00 UTC: Platform Team | 08 Mar 11:00 UTC: Kubuntu Developers
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Education Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 27 Feb 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 28 Feb 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 29 Feb 12:00 UTC: MOTU | 05 Mar 07:00 UTC: Platform Team | 08 Mar 11:00 UTC: Kubuntu Developers
 * ogra wanves
 * stgraber waves
<ogra> *waves even
<ogra> anyone else here ?
<ogra> RichEd has an immovable appointment, so he migh not come
<stgraber> right, I have invited xivulon for Edubuntu+Wubi
<stgraber> don't know if he's around at the moment (not sure of his timezone)
<ogra> what would you do wth wubi in edubuntu ?
<ogra> *with
<ogra> we dont have any installable media atm
<ogra> and we're unlikely to have ...
<stgraber> right, so I'll probably ask him to just drop edubuntu support from wubi
<ogra> i doubt i can make any edubuntu apps fit on the liveCD with the dep on ubuntu-desktop we have now
<stgraber> well, it's not a problem with wubi
<ogra> that will take up all space
<stgraber> it runs from an ISO file, so size doesn't matter
<ogra> if wubi has a networked install mode that would be an option
<stgraber> but that would require an extra iso just for wubi which is unlikely to happen
<ogra> like pulling everything from the archive
<stgraber> hmm, I don't know if wubi has some kind of netinstall support
<ogra> then you could just install edubuntu-desktop
<stgraber> yes, well something he could also do is that when you select Edubuntu, it installs Ubuntu and then install edubuntu-desktop
<stgraber> (don't know if it's something he can do though)
<ogra> right, but that requires net access as well
<ogra> or multi iso support in wubi
<stgraber> right
<ogra> well, anyway ... short Cd status report ...
<ogra> the edubuntu-desktop package is now in g-a-i (still needs some description text)
<ogra> so if you pop in the Cd you can just mark it for install in g-a-i and it will turn your desktop into edubuntu
<stgraber> I tried it with alpha-5 and it worked perfectly
<ogra> edubuntu-artwork got a notification to please reboot or at least relogin for the changes to take effect
<ogra> since wallpaper etc wont change immediately ... gdm theme needs a gdm restart etc
 * Hobbsee waves
<ogra> there are some dependency probs i'm currently attacking
<ogra> its currently not possible to install without network from that CD because its missing a lor of kde libs
<ogra> i'm currently sorting that out and hope to have it fixed for tomorrows build
<ogra> the prob here was that -alternate wasnt installable for some days due to new kernel builds
<ogra> so i didnt have a plain fresh install to test on ...
<ogra> vbox install of todays image is running in the background :)
<ogra> meh
<ogra> and just failed
<stgraber> argh :(
<ogra> well, anyway thats the current status
<ogra> i'm waiting for some artwork but since rich usually does the communication here i'll do that off meeting
<ogra> obverall the new CD design proves to be good ... we currently eat up only 430M ...
<ogra> and still have WINFOSS on it
<ogra> i suspect the deps i have to add will eat about another 50M or so though
<ogra> so any questions ?
<ogra> oh, and lasers freeze exception for squeak was approved ... we'll get a new working squeak for hardy :)
<ogra> hmm, seems no questions so far ...
<xivulon> ogra what will happen to the ISO?
<ogra> xivulon, which one ?
<ogra> the addon ? it will stay as is
<xivulon> will we have a big ISO with desktop + edubuntu all in one?
<ogra> the livecd is likely to go away as we wont have space for any edu apps
<ogra> and there was no final decision about the dvd yet
<xivulon> I am asking that in the context of wubi
<ogra> but i'm not eager to maintain it
<ogra> we had that in the beginning :)
<xivulon> Size is not a big issue on my side
<ogra> we dont have any installable media anymore in edubuntu
<ogra> or will not have
<ogra> edubuntu turned into a plain addon
<stgraber> xivulon: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5042/
<xivulon> stgraber: thx
<ogra> xivulon, multi iso support would work ... or netinstall
<stgraber> xivulon: is there a way you could chain both CDs or install edubuntu-desktop once the Ubuntu Desktop is installed ?
<ogra> if wubi offers either that would eb for edubuntu
<ogra> no need to chain them
<ogra> just apt-cdrom add both
<ogra> and then install edubuntu-desktop
<ogra> the combo of both isos should have all you need
<xivulon> ogra will need to investigate that, might be possible but no promises
<ogra> doesnt sound overly complicated :)
<ogra> but surely some code to write, so probably not for hardy
<xivulon> yeah not sure if that would be a violoation of feature freeze
<ogra> i wont cry if yu drop it for hardy and we re-add it in a proper (instead of quick) way in intrepid
<ogra> not sure how much its used
<ogra> did you have any complaints yet from hardy testers ?
<xivulon> I'd guess it would be mostly for evaluation purposes
<ogra> yeah
<stgraber> having a way to work with add-on CDs in wubi would be interesting as some other derivatives may want to go that way in the future
<ogra> hum
<ogra> i just looked at the livecd
<ogra> its remarkably small
<stgraber> ogra: Have you had some time to write the MIR for italc ?
<ogra> ugh, thanks for reminding, will do so today
<xivulon> stgraber: yes I agree, does apt-cdrom work with an ISO?
<stgraber> xivulon: not sure, but you could just loop mount it and then use it no ?
<xivulon> yes
<stgraber> sorry, I got to go back to my edubuntu deployement. Thanks for the meeting and see you later
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> i think we can adjourn now
<xivulon> I'll keep edubuntu for the time being and see if I can add extra-isos with minimal changes
<xivulon> if that's ok
<ogra> seems theer is nothing pressing anymore we cant as well discuss in #edubuntu
<stgraber> as we don't have Riched around for the community part I indeed think we can :)
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> xivulon, sure
<ogra> xivulon, you can also keep it and show a note that the user needs network and install edubuntu-desktop from the archive
<xivulon> that would be plan B I guess
<ogra> right
<ogra> ok, are we ready so far ?
<ogra> going once ...
<ogra> going twice ...
<ogra> .
<ogra> .
<ogra> .
<ogra> adjourned ...
<ogra> thanks all
<ogra> stgraber, good luck with your deployment
<michalski> meeting starts in 10 minutes right?
<Riddell> michalski: looks like the edu meeting has happened
<michalski> happend? like has past?
<michalski> impossible, my computer was on all night for the platform meeting, and i turned it off only between 7-30:8:30, so its impossible that i missed it
<mjg59> michalski: It started an hour ago
<mjg59> And finished half an hour ago
<michalski> .....awwww :(
<michalski> and next meeting at 5pm (AST), cya
<mruiz> @schedule santiago
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 27 Feb 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 28 Feb 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 29 Feb 12:00 UTC: MOTU | 05 Mar 07:00 UTC: Platform Team | 08 Mar 11:00 UTC: Kubuntu Developers
<pedro_> hello!
 * Iulian waves
<heno> hey all!
<nand> hey!
<liw> hi
 * nand is at work...
<heno> bdmurray, ogasawara?
<ogasawara_> I'm here
<bdmurray> metoo
<heno> ok, then we can start!
<heno> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 16:01. The chair is heno.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<heno> agena at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings
<heno> [TOPIC] Evaluation of the current bug day arrangement.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Evaluation of the current bug day arrangement.
<stgraber> hello
<heno> ... It seems to be going extremely well, with solid community participation and good impact on the numbers. In London we decided to run two bug days each week for a month or two approaching release. Should we make this a permanent arrangement? -- heno
<bdmurray> I personally find it hard to participate in both of them
<ogasawara_> same here
<heno> yeah, I can understand that
<pedro_> yes me too, it's hard for me to participate on the Tuesday ones (lot of emails to read basically)
<Iulian> Well, here is going well, every morning I have some classes (school) but after that I'm free to give a hand.
<Iulian> But I think that's up to you guys.
<heno> pedro_: would you be comfortable running the desktop days with just the (growing) community?
<pedro_> I'd like to celebrate both bug days, it seems that there's a lot of participation the Thursdays at the desktop hug days
<pedro_> heno: of course!
<pedro_> the bugsquad is doing an excellent job there
<heno> we could look at the QA schedule and select point in the cycle where it makes sense to have two
<heno> pedro_: indeed
<heno> the time around UDS seems difficult
<heno> or any meeting where we all have to attend
<heno> but otherwise, are there any bad dates for bug days?
<pedro_> i don't think so, just between meetings they are difficult to do
<bdmurray> We didn't have one right after FF because people were so busy
<heno> right, just leading up to release might also be busy
<bdmurray> right with more testing
<heno> but generally, i think we can continue as we are and see what capacity we have
<pedro_> agreed with that
<heno> with more people joining the bus factor drops also
<bdmurray> I think it will be helpful if we can keep the momentum until UDS as we'll need help watching for SRU bugs for Hardy
<heno> (ie. we can run them even if a specific person isn't available)
<heno> bdmurray: esp as this is an LTS where we will expect to ship updates
<heno> in the form of point releases
<heno> Ok so we are all agreed the bug days are really rocking these days and not to change them ATM
<heno> !
<stgraber> moving room, will be back in ~5min
<heno> [TOPIC] Kernel bug migration - are we blocked on bug 193853?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel bug migration - are we blocked on bug 193853?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 193853 in python-launchpad-bugs "add functionality for adding new tasks to bug report" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/193853
<ogasawara_> it really just depends on how we're wanting to handle the migration
<ogasawara_> if we just want to mark the linux-source-2.6.22 tasks to Incomplete and ask to test with the Hardy kernel, then we're ok
<ogasawara_> it's just an issue if we want to take the extra step of opening the 'linux' task at the same time
<heno> they the user has to set the 'linux' task
<ogasawara_> right
<ogasawara_> or we have to set it
<heno> it's fairly easy to do
<heno> compared with finding the right pkg in the first place
<heno> it will only take 1-2 lines to explain
 * ogasawara_ nods
<ogasawara_> but we'll want to make sure they understand that if they don't add the 'linux' task themselves it may get overlooked
<heno> ogasawara, can the setting to incomplete and adding comment then be fully automated?
<ogasawara_> heno: yes
<heno> (once the high and critical bugs are taken care of)
<heno> i'm happy with that
<heno> rather than waiting for a p-lp-bugs feature
<ogasawara_> yup, and I've been trying to take a look at the high and critical ones
<heno> excellent
<ogasawara_> also the Fix Committed ones are simple to close out
<heno> anyone opposed to that approach
<heno> are they all in reality fix Released?
<ogasawara_> heno: not all, but a majority are
<heno> ok, let's go with that then!
<heno> what about time lines?
<heno> when shall we do this?
<ogasawara_> heno:  I'll immediately start taking a closer look at the High and Critical ones
<ogasawara_> heno:  I don't have an exact count of how many there are, but I imagine I can tackle a good chunck of them by next week
<heno> ogasawara_, thanks. Let us know how you get on
<heno> [TOPIC] QA-poll pre-launch coordination
<stgraber> re
<stgraber> oh, just in time :)
<heno> stgraber: did you want to ask for testing?
<heno> or shall we do that in a different forum?
<stgraber> well, it's late for testing, but I would like everyone of you to think about two ideas to add right after we release it
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA-poll pre-launch coordination
<heno> So these are ideas for improving Ubuntu
<heno> basically feature requests
<stgraber> yep, possibly linked to a spec, bug or forum thread (ideal would be the three of them)
<heno> 'Video enabled skype should just work'
<heno> 'better support for Wacom tablets', etc.
<stgraber> 'Easy partition management'
<stgraber> 'Graphic backup tool'
<heno> stgraber: ok, thanks. we can look at the announcement texts later in #u-testing
<heno> liw: did you want to talk about testing packages, or not yet?
<stgraber> yes, I'll blog about it
<stgraber> heno: can you post on ubuntuforum ?
<liw> heno, they're not yet ready for public use, so not yet, but next week
<stgraber> I would suggest that we start spreading the announcement tomorrow from 13:00 UTC
<heno> stgraber: yes, I'll contact the forum and fridge people to get it posted centrally
<heno> stgraber: sounds good
<nand> re
<heno> liw: ok, please email the QA list
 * heno waves to nand
<heno> any other topics?
<nand> heno: I saw you mentionned bugvote.qa.ubuntu.com on your announcment sheet. But it is not ready
<heno> nand: ah, ok. good catch, thanks
<heno> I'll take that out
<nand> ok
<bdmurray> I recently was reminded about 'apt-cache policy <PKGNAME>' and that seems a bit better than 'dpkg -l ...'.  Thoughts?
<bdmurray> For the guided bug filing. ;)
<pedro_> bdmurray:  totally better than dpkg -l
<bdmurray> I like how it shows the repo they are using too
<pedro_> sometimes with dpkg -l the version number get corrupted
<pedro_> yes yes
<heno> I just looked -- if you guys say so :)
<Iulian> apt-cache policy won't give you the description of the package but I think it is not so useful
<heno> should not be needed by the package maintainer who fixes the bug in the end ;)
<Iulian> Indeed
<heno> bdmurray: right, so let's use that
<heno> has anyone noticed any impact of the bug filing instructions on new bugs
<heno> ?
<heno> difficult to measure of course
<bdmurray> I think my initial sample is a little off
<bdmurray> but I wrote up some notes somewhere
<bdmurray> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/BugSampling
<heno> excellent, I'd like to read those
<heno> thx
<bdmurray> I want to redo to it with a better initial sample and also look at the change 'apt-cache policy' has
<heno> It would be interesting to see a time spread of the '700 with the header "sourcepackage=None"'
<heno> of course older bugs will have moved out of new so a naive analysis will be way off
<bdmurray> I started off with bugs with "NEW" in the subject so those are the 1st e-mails.  Somebody would have to be very quick to get it moved to a package
<heno> ah, the data is 'old' also, excellent
<bdmurray> Additionally, we implemented the guided instructions on the 24th of January so this is after they were in effect
<heno> so a time spread of no-pkg/total would be very useful
<heno> just plotting those in daily or weekly bins
<heno> if there is nothing else, let's wrap up
<heno> - ? -
<heno> 3
<bdmurray> regarding malone bugs tagged ubuntu-qa
<liw> I'm fine
<heno> ah :)
<bdmurray> mpt is / was under the impression that they are bugs that are blocking our work - are we in agreement about that?
<heno> I've notified bjorn about them
<bdmurray> I just wanted clarification as to when we should use the tag
<bdmurray> or consensus
<heno> blocking us from doing it as efficiently as we could otherwise
<heno> oh, i see
<heno> perhaps better keep pet annoyances off the list
<bdmurray> I might tagged some I just wanted to watch and share with the team
<heno> but include things you feel slow you down
<bdmurray> Okay, would e-mailing the QA list about "interesting" ones be best?
<heno> bdmurray: to get others to weigh in on whether it should be tagged?
<heno> when in doubt that sounds good
<heno> ie. when it's not obvious
<bdmurray> as an example is bug 165283 blocking our work - stgraber?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 165283 in malone "The +txt listing for a bug is missing mentoring information" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/165283
<heno> should we review this list within the QA team regularly as well?
<bdmurray> Maybe do an initial review via e-mail, only brining up contentious ones, and then talk about new ones in the meeting?
<bdmurray> contentious or interesting
<heno> there are 28 ATM
<heno> 7 have no priority
<bdmurray> that's their responsibility though right?
<heno> which could mean they are not very serious, or that the LP team is not taking them seriously enough
<heno> but if those are really blocking us we should lobby to have them raise the priority
<bdmurray> well one of them was just submitted yesterday
<heno> "nomination listings on a bug page are odd" likely isn't a blocker
<bdmurray> yeah, I was just looking at that and will remove it
<heno> ok, so let's do a review on the qa list first
<heno> bdmurray: do you want to post a strawman list?
<liw> (time's running out)
<bdmurray> heno: sure
<heno> bdmurray: these are clear; these are less clear
<heno> bdmurray: thanks!
<heno> ok we are agreed
<heno> and done
<heno> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 16:55.
<heno> thanks everyone!
 * heno will be AFK for a while
<janquark> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: February 27 2008, 19:39:19 - Next meeting: Server Team in 1 hour 20 minutes
<andrea-bs> @schedule europe/rome
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 27 Feb 22:00: Server Team | 28 Feb 15:00: Desktop Team | 29 Feb 13:00: MOTU | 05 Mar 08:00: Platform Team | 08 Mar 12:00: Kubuntu Developers
<keescook> security team meeting isn't listed, but is starting in 5 min
<andrea-bs> thanks keescook
<keescook> np, sorry for the confusion
<joejaxx> hi
<joejaxx> :)
<andrea-bs> heya joejaxx
<keescook> heya
<astharot> 60secs!
<andrea-bs> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: February 27 2008, 20:00:02 - Next meeting: Server Team in 59 minutes
<keescook> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 20:00. The chair is keescook.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<keescook> hello!
<keescook> [topic] agenda review
<MootBot> New Topic:  agenda review
<keescook> heya folks :)
 * jdstrand waves
<keescook> anyone new here that wants to introduce themselves?
<popey> o/
<popey> Hello - popey - just a bloke interested in security
<keescook> :)  it's a big topic area, anything in particular?
<popey> keeping systems up to date
<keescook> cool.
<keescook> welcome :)
<popey> we do hosting for LUGs, so I'm interested in best practice for making sure we don't get hacked basically :)
<keescook> sounds good -- have you been using gutsy for those hosts?
<popey> they're mostly debian
<keescook> I'm curious if anyone has played much with doing apache isolation with apparmor in gutsy.  ah, heh.
<astharot> keescook: cool
<astharot> will try
<keescook> okay, if there are any new agenda items, please add them to the wiki agenda page:
<keescook> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<keescook> as usual, we've got an hour before the server team meeting uses this room
<\sh> starts now?
<keescook> so, continuing into what I think will be a quick topic...
<keescook> \sh: yeah, started
<jdstrand> keescook: I thought about it
<jdstrand> re apache/apparmor
<keescook> hehe, me too!  :)
<keescook> [topic] cve review
<MootBot> New Topic:  cve review
<keescook> anyone have any open CVE concerns?  I've got nothing myself, but I like having this place holder just in case.
<\sh> keescook: how do we going for sec fixes for issues which don't have a CVE filed
<\sh> ?
<jdstrand> \sh: we track these by CVE typically-- do you have a particular thing in mind?
<keescook> \sh: we can follow the same processes, but generally, we should request CVE for issues that need them
<keescook> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityUpdateProcedures
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityUpdateProcedures
<keescook> there is a small section on requesting a CVE
<keescook> err... there was.
<joejaxx> lol
<\sh> jdstrand: lighttpd
<keescook> [action] keescook to (re?)add CVE request procedure to SUP wiki page
<MootBot> ACTION received:  keescook to (re?)add CVE request procedure to SUP wiki page
<keescook> \sh: I opted to let lighttpd publish without the CVE (since it was ready to publish)
<keescook> basically, we contact mitre and vendor-sec and ask for one.
<keescook> okay, moving on...
<jdstrand> \sh: does this have an LP bug?
<\sh> jdstrand: jepp...sec
<keescook> [topic] selinux progress
<MootBot> New Topic:  selinux progress
<\sh> jdstrand: bug #195380
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 195380 in lighttpd "lighttpd crashes in some cases and giving a remote DoS possibility" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/195380
<propagandist> :o) Most packages have made it into upstream.
<keescook> propagandist, jason_tang: things seems pretty cool
<jason_tang> spiffy
<joejaxx> :)
<keescook> I installed a selinux vm.  I have no idea what I'm doing in it, but "sestatus -v" seems happy ;)
<propagandist> horray ;o}
<joejaxx> keescook: lol :D
<propagandist> SETools 3.3.3 was released and is in the PPA now. I'll be posting it to revu this week.
<jdstrand> \sh: thanks
<keescook> propagandist: okay, cool
<jason_tang> extra spiffy
<propagandist> Some packages (refpolicy, selinux, and selinux-basics) need to be deleted from the PPA so that their version can be sync'd with upstream. If there aren't any objections I'll do that after the meeting today.
<keescook> propagandist: did you catch the issues with libselinux and libsepol that got uncovered over the weekend?
<propagandist> with pkg-config?
<keescook> yeah
<propagandist> yes, i've pulled those into bzr and posted to the ppa today
<propagandist> they'll get pushed to revu as well
<keescook> okay, excellent.  is there hope that those changes will get into upstream?
<keescook> for note, I've already uploaded the fixed packages to the archive
<propagandist> I would think so :o)
<keescook> propagandist: cool.  is that something you can drive?  I'm not sure where to send the patches
<propagandist> I made some adjustments to the .pc changes though that I think will be easier to upstream (I removed the DESTDIR changes)
<propagandist> keescook: yup i can submit them for us
<propagandist> keescook: Any update on ubuntu-standard apparmor-utils=>security-utils?
<keescook> propagandist: okay, cool -- I did think it was a bit funny-looking that way.  what was your solution for handling "prefix" in the .pc file?
<keescook> propagandist: now that I've got my selinux vm, I can more easily see/test the virtual package need there.
<keescook> I will get that into the archive this week -- it should be a very simple fix -- I just wanted to let the new packages settle for a bit
<keescook> propagandist: is it intentional to have the X login be unconfined?
<propagandist> keescook: i left it as the combined DESTDIR+prefix... thats not really optimal, but removing destdir will require a bit more work due to the way its being used currently
<propagandist> keescook: kk
<propagandist> keescook: um... no
<keescook> propagandist: well, the requirement is that the .pc file reports the correct thing.  :)  how that happens doesn't matter.  ;)
<propagandist> keescook: ;o} sounds like a bug to me
<propagandist> I'm going to keep a closer eye on the lp bugs if you want to put it there
<keescook> propagandist: okay, I did an alpha5 install, then dist-upgrade, apt-get purge apparmor, apt-get install selinux, reboot, reboot, login, sestatus => "unconfied"
<keescook> propagandist: okay, I'll file the bug
<propagandist> keescook: :o}
<keescook> [action] keescook to file "unconfined" selinux bug
<MootBot> ACTION received:  keescook to file "unconfined" selinux bug
<keescook> propagandist: beyond setools and the virtual package, is there any outstanding in your view?
<propagandist> keescook: nope, everything looks like its coming together nicely
 * propagandist is excited to hear about the gui tools ;o}
<keescook> excellent!  :)
<keescook> [topic] selinux gui utils
<MootBot> New Topic:  selinux gui utils
<joejaxx> hi
<joejaxx> :)
<keescook> :)
<joejaxx> setroubleshoot is almost done packaging wise i just need to fix something to be in compliance with ubuntu policy
<joejaxx> there are still some redhat/fedora specific things i need to investigate
<keescook> joejaxx: is there any beta in REVU or something to poke at early?
<joejaxx> i should have the other gui tools done soon as well (system-config-selinux and the policycoreutils-gui)
<joejaxx> keescook: nope not yet i should upload to ppa ( or revu since that sounds better)
<jdstrand> joejaxx: is the system-config-selinux standalone, or does it need other redhat stuff (IIRC it is python and other libs)
<jdstrand> ?
<joejaxx> the later is actually a patch on policycoreutils so i am wondering how i should go about that
<keescook> joejaxx: is it a bolt on? or does it need a patch to make the -gui work?
<jdstrand> by 'it' I mean 'system-config-*' tools
<jdstrand> in general
<joejaxx> jdstrand: standalone i believe, we already have system-config-printer
<joejaxx> keescook: the patch is the gui code
<joejaxx> grr i wish i would have posted it somewhere http accessible so i could show you all
<keescook> joejaxx: hm... is there some way to keep it external?  the feature freeze makes it hard to add a feature to a package, but easy to upload a NEW package.  :)
<joejaxx> keescook: yeah, i will have to look further into it
<joejaxx> :)
<joejaxx> i will do that before the end of this business week
<keescook> joejaxx: cool, that sounds good.
<joejaxx> :)
<keescook> do we need to have auditd running when using any of these things?
<joejaxx> for setroubleshoot yes
<joejaxx> but you can have it review log files as well
<keescook> okay.  I think mathiaz is actually intending to get it into main for intrepid
<joejaxx> ok great
<keescook> anything we can help with for the gui bits?
<joejaxx> keescook: yes if you are knowledgeable with the python policy it would help :D
<joejaxx> i will upload it to revu later
<keescook> oops.  I'm a newb there.  ;)  we can find someone :)
<joejaxx> ;)
<keescook> okay, so, once on REVU, we can poke at it.  :)
<jdstrand> there is a good link-- getting it...
<andrea-bs> joejaxx: I know python a bit well
<keescook> eek, meeting half-over....
<jdstrand> http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy
<jdstrand> joejaxx: ^^
<joejaxx> jdstrand: ok thanks
<joejaxx> keescook: perhaps we should move on to the next topic for time sake?
<keescook> [topic] hardening wrapper testing
<MootBot> New Topic:  hardening wrapper testing
<keescook> so, I starting trying to do some benchmarks for fun and discovered that mplayer doesn't compile with PIE
<keescook> PIE will fail for applications with raw assembly...
<keescook> since those are, by definition, not relocatable in most cases.  :(
<NthDegree> PIE seems to have issues with apps that want PIC too
<crimsun_> what portion of main does that affect?
<keescook> NthDegree: afaict, an executable can link with either PIC or PIE objects
<keescook> (PIE is just a "lesser" PIC)
<NthDegree> i've had a few errors where it's asked to recompile with -fPIC
<jdstrand> keescook: when is it ok to issue FTBFS bugs against the packages, when intrepid opens?
<keescook> NthDegree: right, those are .o's that are neither -fPIC nor -fPIE, from what I've been able to tell (i.e. they are not relocatable at all)
<NthDegree> ah
<keescook> and the things that I've found that don't get -fPIC/-fPIE during a compile (with the wrappers) are .S files
<keescook> (things going though "as")
<keescook> those .o files are not relocatable... and some may not be able to be defined that way... it kind of depends.
<keescook> [agreed] we need to take a closer look at things like mplayer
<MootBot> AGREED received:  we need to take a closer look at things like mplayer
<keescook> NthDegree: what were you compiling that failed?  (and did compiling with DEB_BUILD_HARDENING_PIE=0 help?)
<NthDegree> keescook: err large'ish things... KDE was one of my attempts
<keescook> jdstrand: we should open them now, actually, but note them with the tags from the wiki page:
<keescook> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Security/HardeningWrapper
<keescook> "hardening-ftbfs"
<jdstrand> cool
<keescook> crimsun_: it's unclear...
<keescook> but probably everything with asm in it
<keescook> which is, ironically, the things I'd want to protect most with PIE.  ;)
 * jdstrand just had a thought that we could compile select packages with hardening wrapper for hardy-- and release with it (eg tasksel server packages might be a start)
<jdstrand> but I realize this is probably too late because of FF
<keescook> ah, as a ppa, perhaps?
<jdstrand> I was thinking for release, ideally
<jdstrand> we Build-Depends on it
<keescook> yeah... makes me nervous to do it this late... but perhaps should be considered more carefully
<keescook> (before ruling it out)
<keescook> what would people nominate for this?
<jdstrand> maybe this is an #ubuntu-server topic too
<keescook> i.e. what packages?
<crimsun_> daemons listening on non-localhost?
<keescook> openssh, while not compiled with some of the other things, is compiled with PIE.
<jdstrand> my thoughts were things in main that ship on the server cd that open a port
<jdstrand> cups might be another candidate
<jdstrand> dhcpd
<jdstrand> dhcp3-client (or whatever its called)
<keescook> jdstrand: would you make a list of candidates and put them in the wiki under the roadmap?
<jdstrand> keescook: I can do that
<keescook> [action] jdstrand to make a list of possible candidates for early hardening in hardy
<MootBot> ACTION received:  jdstrand to make a list of possible candidates for early hardening in hardy
<keescook> okay, moving on...
<keescook> [topic] pentest team organization
<MootBot> New Topic:  pentest team organization
<astharot> hello
<joejaxx> hi
<astharot> I'll talk about this instead of emgent :)
<keescook> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPentest#head-9a8d1f8d2cdf1209688c579b0b9dea5610015391
<astharot> i'll be quick, 15 minutes left
<keescook> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPentest#head-9a8d1f8d2cdf1209688c579b0b9dea5610015391
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPentest#head-9a8d1f8d2cdf1209688c579b0b9dea5610015391
<astharot> all the people involved into the team are pleased to subscribe to the ML
<astharot> http://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-pentest/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-pentest/
<keescook> [action] pentesters subscribe to private pentest list
<MootBot> ACTION received:  pentesters subscribe to private pentest list
<astharot> yep
<astharot> then
<astharot> keescook: emgent told me that you should know something about platforms census
<keescook> I don't yet have an infrastructure machine list, IS would like to know what the plans for them are first.  :)
<astharot> and that you have to discuss with him via mail
<astharot> uhm I think that by knowning the "volume" of the platforms, the criticism and everything related about the productivity we could start thinking a plan
<astharot> otherwise, how to plan if we don't know what to do?
<joejaxx> we should probably draft up policies first
<astharot> yep, CoC is the next point :)
<keescook> I'd like to at least have an outline.  e.g.   1) check for XSS in webservices a, b, c.   2) check for ... etc
<joejaxx> on how to go about things :)
<joejaxx> keescook: same here
<astharot> ok so we should first define the tasks that people will perform on platforms
<keescook> right, CoC will get written before the week is up.  jdstrand and I are face-to-face this week (server team meeting)
<astharot> perfect
<astharot> then
<keescook> astharot: that's my thinking.  I'm going to have a hard time convincing IS to help until they're comfortable with what's going to happen.  :)
<astharot> ok so, task definition in todo list
<astharot> please add it, dunno how to do it :P
<keescook> [action] pentest team to define tasks for TODO list
<MootBot> ACTION received:  pentest team to define tasks for TODO list
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Server Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 28 Feb 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 29 Feb 12:00 UTC: MOTU | 05 Mar 07:00 UTC: Platform Team | 08 Mar 11:00 UTC: Kubuntu Developers
<keescook> does that capture the task description correctly?
<astharot> yep
<keescook> the template looks good
<astharot> then, I prepared a draft of the pentest report
<astharot> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPentest/ptreport/template
<keescook> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPentest/ptreport/template
<keescook> heh
<astharot> yes
<astharot> so, approvation?
<keescook> (why do some links need [link]?)
<keescook> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPentest/ptreport/template
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPentest/ptreport/template
<keescook> sure, looks good.
<joejaxx> keescook: maybe it does not like https
<joejaxx> :P
<keescook> ah
<astharot> the, emgent is working on "anteater" that should be something automatic to send directly the report to launchpad as bug
<astharot> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPentest/ptreport
<keescook> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPentest/ptreport
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPentest/ptreport
<astharot> he has to finish it then he will make a package and will update it on bazaar or ppa
<keescook> okay, sounds good
<keescook> are there new pentest members to approve?
<astharot> last point
<astharot> everything related to ubuntu-pentes should be discussed and approved by every member of the team
<astharot> I don't think there will be new people involved, AFAIK
<keescook> astharot: unanimous approvals may be tricky
<astharot> at least, atm
<jdstrand> astharot: I am assuming that the bug will be marked private as well as security?
<astharot> why tricky?
<astharot> jdstrand: yes that's the plan
<keescook> astharot: it can just be hard to reach 100% agreement some times.
<joejaxx>  /win 116
<keescook> I think simple majority should work in most cases.
<joejaxx> bah
<astharot> ye sure, I think that he wanted to say that every member should vote, not only older or "admins"
<keescook> [agreed] joejaxx has too many windows
<MootBot> AGREED received:  joejaxx has too many windows
<keescook> astharot: ah! okay, then I agree there.
<keescook> running out of time again....
<astharot> perfect
<astharot> I've done :)
<jdstrand> haha
<astharot> hands up \o/
<joejaxx> hahaha
<jdstrand> re joejaxx' windows
<keescook> so, should we start this meeting an hour earlier in two weeks?  we see to always run out before discussing cve-ubuntu-tracker
<keescook> and the todo lists, etc
<joejaxx> that sounds good
<keescook> [topic] scheduling
<MootBot> New Topic:  scheduling
<keescook> anyone else have issues with it?
<jdstrand> fine by me
<propagandist> sounds good to me
<keescook> joejaxx: sorry to defer the topics again.  :(
<andrea-bs> that's better for me
<keescook> joejaxx: anything you can quickly cover about todo list ideas?
<keescook> [topic] todo list
<MootBot> New Topic:  todo list
<joejaxx> same
<joejaxx> keescook: it is quite alright
<joejaxx> keescook: we can leave that for next time :)
<keescook> okay, well, I'd like to shake out the Roadmap to really outline all the kick-ass work we're doing
<joejaxx> yeap
<keescook> okay, next meeting: Mar 12, 1900UTC
<joejaxx> thanks everyone! :)
<keescook> thanks everyone for coming!  we'll cover more next time around.  :)
<astharot> good
<jdstrand> thanks keescook! :)
<keescook> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 20:59.
<astharot> thank you
<andrea-bs> thanks everyone
<michalski> did i miss the meeting?
<astharot> michalski: if you are talking about security-meeting, yes :P
<michalski> ...the server team
<faulkes-> ubuntu-server meeting will be starting shortly
<astharot> server team is gonna start, i think
<michalski> few haha had me worried
<astharot> lol
<andrea-bs> @schedule
<astharot> dinner is waiting for me, cya around ;)
<michalski> cya
<mathiaz> hi all !
<andrea-bs> see u
<faulkes-> heya mathiaz
<soren> o/
<zul> hello
 * nijaba waves
<mruiz> hi mathiaz
<sommer> yo
<kirkland> \n
<keescook> \m/
<owh> .
<michalski> hi
<mathiaz> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 21:02. The chair is mathiaz.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<dendrobates> o/
<jdstrand> \o
<mathiaz> so - let's get started
<mathiaz> current agenda for today: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> \/o
<michalski> not alot on the agenda
<nijaba> >o
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting.
<soren> â
<mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20080220
<mathiaz> As you may have noticed, I've sent a link to the new reporting page
<soren> â
 * faulkes- did
<mathiaz> So I'd like to remind everyone to update the ReportingPage
 * nijaba hides
<michalski> whats nijiba's email? I want to join his beta test
<keescook> mathiaz: so, e.g. for my bits, should I just keep this up to date week-to-week?
<keescook> (i.e. delete an old entry?)
<mathiaz> keescook: yes
 * michalski grabs nijaba and hauls him out of his hiding spot
<mathiaz> I'm still wondering if we should have a weekly page
<mathiaz> or if the monthly page is enough
<nijaba> michalski: just msg'd it to you
<michalski> do we have enough for a weekly?
<mathiaz> for now - just update the ReportingPage with a status report from last week
<michalski> k thanks
<keescook> mathiaz: and if a section of the roadmap is finished, remove myself from the ReportingPage ?
<mathiaz> keescook: nope - ReportingPage is to know what we did
<mathiaz> keescook: it will be removed once the MonthlyReport is done.
<mathiaz> That's a difference between the ReportingPage and the Roadmap
<michalski> supper, back in 20, sorry mathiaz
 * nealmcb returns to eir computer
<mathiaz> the Roadmap is about the future and ReportingPage is about the past
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] mentoring program name
<MootBot> New Topic:  mentoring program name
<mathiaz> dendrobates suggested the use sheperd
<mathiaz> a shepherd
<mathiaz> using mentor reminds of the MOTU mentoring program
<faulkes-> pathfinder ?
 * mruiz agrees
<faulkes-> although shepherd is fine with me as well
<mathiaz> and we're not trying to compete with the MOTU mentoring program
 * faulkes- nods
<Jeeves_> pathfinder reminds me of a car
<ScottK> I think mentor is fine.  Debian uses it too.  It's sufficiently generic.
<owh> Would it be a good idea to ask the people who will be mentored?
<mathiaz> owh: who will be ? or who would be a mentor ?
<owh> I mean, the customer, the person that will receive the mentoring.
<mathiaz> for now, I'll be the contact for users who want to embark on the mentoring program.
<faulkes-> I think that would indicate a lack of planning on our part if we have to ask them what we want to name the program
 * ScottK thinks we probably have more important details to obsess over.
 * faulkes- agrees
<owh> Ah, we're talking about naming the thing :-) NM
 * nealmcb looks around for the best summary-to-date of the concept - is it one-to-one?  or might the mentor hand someone off to a subject-matter-expert?  length of time involved?
<mathiaz> ok - so I'll keep the mentoring name for now
<mruiz> the name is just a detail
<mathiaz> for now, I've summarized my ideas about the Mentoring program on a wiki page
<mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Mentoring
<nealmcb> :-)
<mathiaz> so - let's move on
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Forum reporting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Forum reporting
<mathiaz> faulkes-: any news on that ?
<faulkes-> yes
<faulkes-> first, the sticky has been put in place, it has been up for a week and has seen 180 views
<faulkes-> about ~30 / day or so
<dendrobates> faulkes-: I noticed the sticky is locked for comments.  I
<faulkes-> next, I began a project to help categorize, summarize and visualize forum questions, from a broad level narrowing it down
<mathiaz> faulkes-: that looks promising
<jdstrand> dendrobates: you were cut-off at ...comments. I
<faulkes-> dendrobates: yes, it is locked, I will add a note asking for any additions or changes to be sent to me
<faulkes-> otherwise it tends to grow and the original content gets last paged, which makes it less than useful
<dendrobates> faulkes-: I was wondering about general feedback, though
<faulkes-> understood, I will look into addressing that
<faulkes-> as I was saying, visualizing forum questions
<faulkes-> the purpose behind it is to give that "a picture is worth a thousand words" feeling, so that we can easily see what the most common areas of discussion are
<faulkes-> and to further be able to drill that down to specific issues
 * nijaba hugs faulkes-
<faulkes-> version 0.1 is avaiable at http://ubuntu.oss-mgmt.com/
<faulkes-> for those of you who had a pre-look, it has been updated with additional graphs
 * nealmcb oohs and ahhs :-)
<owh> vnice
<faulkes-> version 0.2 will include further data, such as links to the forum posts themselves and better categorization
 * michalski sits back down
<mathiaz> faulkes-: great. How does the categorization work ?
<faulkes-> currently, it is one big regex, it will be moved to a array/hash algorithm to better be able to categorize properly
<mathiaz> faulkes-: could you give a quick overview ?
<faulkes-> it's complicated by the nature of human expression and terminology
<mathiaz> faulkes-: right.
<faulkes-> i.e. vsftp as an ftp server, would also match in the regex for sftp
<mathiaz> faulkes-: do you plan to make the code available ?
<faulkes-> giving a false positive
<faulkes-> yes, I intend to place the code on LP
<michalski> where do you get the stats, faulkes?
<faulkes-> that will be done within the next week
<michalski> (source)
<faulkes-> the backend is written in perl, it connects to the forum and slices out the forum subject/topics
<nealmcb> nice that you seem to distinguish between samba questions that are related directory services vs file serving
<michalski> ok, so theres no real place to add in your stats
<faulkes-> add in how?
<michalski> eg: a little form online to mark off what your servers uses and how
<nealmcb> can you analyze mailing lists?  irc logs?
<nealmcb> is it message-by-message or topic-by-topic?
<faulkes-> nealmcb: with some modification, yes, it likely could do that on a topic by topic basis
<mathiaz> I think it's a good start.
<nijaba> michalski: faulkes and I are preparing a survey for that
<faulkes-> message by message is more difficult because multiple things can be related within a single message
<michalski> ok thanks nijaba
<mathiaz> Once you've put up the code on LP, some people may start to implement other backends.
 * nealmcb hugs faulkes
<faulkes-> mathiaz: well, I believe that this provides value to us, but it will likely be a tool other teams can use as well
<nealmcb> the links to messages will be great
<mathiaz> faulkes-: I think so too.
 * michalski agrees
<owh> You could even apply it to all of Ubuntu.
<mathiaz> faulkes-: but let's start small
<michalski> experimental
<faulkes-> yes, I'm taking it step by step right now
<mathiaz> Fujitsu: and get something usefull for analysing the ubuntu server forums
<faulkes-> feedback on category naming, sub-categories, and other questions are all welcome
<mathiaz> faulkes-: ^^
<mathiaz> Fujitsu: sorry
<nealmcb> and then try to link things the other way - from common questions back to documentation, faqs and wikis, and identify outages in those
<mathiaz> right - so there are a lot of ideas to improve.
<owh> faulkes-: Would it be useful to make the configuration of all of that a wiki page?
<mathiaz> let's start small
<faulkes-> agreed
<mathiaz> faulkes-: so - could you setup a LP project and push your code there ?
<faulkes-> yes, I will do that
<mathiaz> faulkes-: we'll take it from there.
<faulkes-> add it as an action item so I don't forget ;)
<mathiaz> [ACTION] faulkes- to setup a LP project for the forums analyser
<MootBot> ACTION received:  faulkes- to setup a LP project for the forums analyser
 * nijaba notes that faulkes- now masters bzr
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Server survey
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server survey
<mathiaz> faulkes-: nijaba : updates ?
<faulkes-> nijaba: I have you to thank for that
<faulkes-> mathiaz: patches have been submitted and merged to it, I will let nijaba answer more fully
<nijaba> soren, I am about to push v.2 of the survey tonight
<michalski> looking at server forum questions for directory services, i see alot about samba in general
<nijaba> Thanks for a ll the feedback, I think it has improved a lot
<michalski> we should recommend to the docs team to improve the docs on it
<nijaba> it is not too late to send me an email if you want to test drive it :)
<michalski> you didnt give me your email :P
<owh> michalski: It's on the wiki page.
<faulkes-> nijaba: how comfortable are we with setting a release date for taking the server?
<faulkes-> err, survey
<michalski> nick barcet?
<nijaba> well, we still have some hosting issues
 * faulkes- nods
<nijaba> I am working on it
<michalski> ok thanks
<faulkes-> ok, from my perspective, I want to have some advance on it so we can properly publicize it to get maximum responses/exposure
<faulkes-> i.e. UWN, Fridge, Forums, etc..
<owh> Can we find a way to collectively digg it for example?
<nijaba> well, the way we have the question, I don't think we will be able to launch it before April
<nealmcb> owh - good idea
<kirkland> someone needs to post a blog entry explaining the motivation and goals etc, and then post it to slashdot
<mathiaz> nijaba: before hardy is released ?
<kirkland> and hope slashdot picks it up
<nijaba> mathiaz: yes or around
<kirkland> and then pray your server can handle the traffic ;-)
<nijaba> so I guess next step is to prepare the text for the annoucement
<owh> nijaba: So, lime doesn't host for us then?
<mathiaz> so - could we come up with a list of website/ressource we wanna post to ?
<nijaba> no, lime is an app, not a hosting provider
<owh> I'll be happy to come up with a list and email it to the list.
<faulkes-> mathiaz: I think that would be wise, although we want to selectively target the most appropriate sources, rather than shotgun effect it
<nijaba> owh, whu not use the wiki?
<nijaba> s/whu/why
<mathiaz> owh: great - I'd rather use a wiki
<owh> Works for me.
<nijaba> anybody up to start the announcement?
 * michalski hides :P
<owh> I'll draft one for the wiki page.
<mathiaz> owh: we should target both the ubuntu community and server/companies related sites ?
<kirkland> who's blog is most heavily read?
<faulkes-> oh, on the subject of forums, if you are doing testing on a new release of a package, feel free to notify me and I can post it to the forums if it's server related
<michalski> couldnt we send it to the fridge?
<mathiaz> [ACTION] owh to draft a wiki page with a list of ressource where we can announce the survey
<MootBot> ACTION received:  owh to draft a wiki page with a list of ressource where we can announce the survey
<owh> mathiaz: I'll come up with the first list, it will be a wiki page so you can add to it :)
<owh> I'll also draft the announcement text.
<mathiaz> owh: exactly.
 * nijaba hugs owh
<owh> :)
 * michalski takes a kodak moments
<mathiaz> owh: could you create one page under wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ with the text announcement and a list of ressource ?
<faulkes-> note: the stats collected by the forum reporting tool will also be able to be analyzed by full / year / month
<michalski> * moment
<mathiaz> faulkes-: zul uploaded a new version of ebox
<owh> mathiaz: Yup, consider it done.
<mathiaz> faulkes-: could you post in the forums about testing ebox ?
<zul> mathiaz: yep I sent out another announcement to ask for testers again and for feedback
<faulkes-> I saw that message, there is already a current thread for him in forums, I will update it
<mathiaz> faulkes-: where did you post ? in the server forums or the developer forums ?
<faulkes-> server
<owh> mathiaz: Will wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ServerSurveyLaunch work for you?
<mathiaz> faulkes-: ok.
<mathiaz> owh: WFM
<michalski> is there a GUI for the firewall config?
 * michalski wonders
<michalski> (sorry for a tad offtopic
<zul> michalski: install ebox-firewall=<version from email>
<michalski> ok
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] libdb migration
<MootBot> New Topic:  libdb migration
<mathiaz> ScottK: what's new on this front
<ScottK> I updated the wiki.
<ScottK> To show what needs to be done for 4.3
 * ScottK hasn't done much with it since due to time pressure.
<mathiaz> ScottK: are these transition easy to do ?
<ScottK> mathiaz: Yes.
<mathiaz> ScottK: I'm looking for easy tasks to do for beginners.
<mathiaz> ScottK: Do you think these are good task for new comers ?
<mathiaz> ScottK: bitesize tasks ?
<ScottK> mathiaz: You need to grab the source and make sure they don't use transactions (grep'ing the source is enough) and if not, it's just updating the build-dep/depends
<ScottK> Yes.
<mathiaz> ScottK: ok.
<ScottK> If it uses transactions, then leave it mark it and leave it for someone else.  Those are harder.
<mathiaz> ScottK: ok.
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Documentation
<MootBot> New Topic:  Documentation
<mathiaz> sommer: ?
<sommer> likewise-open section is available for your reviewing pleasure
<sommer> http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/likewise-open.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/likewise-open.html
<nijaba> \o/
<mathiaz> sommer: which section are left ?
<sommer> bacula, virt-manager/libvirt, ebox
<sommer> then updates
<mathiaz> sommer: well - let's start with virtualization
<sommer> path name, package names, etc
<sommer> mathiaz: ya, I'm sort of stuck on that one
<mathiaz> sommer: yes - that's actually quit an important one.
<sommer> since I don't have KVM friendly hardware
<mathiaz> sommer: it's one of the big feature for hardy
<sommer> mathiaz: ya I know
<sommer> I was thinking of documenting what I can then submit it to those with compatible hardware for testing
<sommer> should have something by the end of the week
<sommer> other ideas are welcome :-)
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Any Other Business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any Other Business
<nealmcb> has anyone made a vm image of e.g. hardy alpha 5?  faster/easier to try out than a cdimage for many folks
<mathiaz> anyone wants to add something ?
<michalski> on the note of documentation... samba docs, are they sufficient at current levels?
<mathiaz> nealmcb: you can use ubuntu-vm-builder
<owh> How do action points from previous meetings get carried forward?
<ScottK> mathiaz: You're going to merge cyrus-sasl2, right?
<mathiaz> michalski: which part of the documentation are you talking about ?
<mathiaz> ScottK: working on it with kirkland
<nealmcb> sommer: I'd say ebox doc would also be good sooner rather than later - help attract testers
<ScottK> mathiaz: Great.
<faulkes-> qemu + ubuntu + ppc != work at least for me with 8.04
<kirkland> ScottK: some nasty man page merge issues, working through them still
<mathiaz> owh: they should be.
<nealmcb> mathiaz: yes indeed - just wondering if anyone had done it, if there would be a way to distribute such things, etc
<sommer> nealmcb: yep, hope to have something soon as well
<faulkes-> install screen comes up but then video goes all wonky, but it's ppc-server, so I can't really expect alot on that
<mathiaz> owh: there is a section about bacula in the ReportingPage
<michalski> documentation for directory services, from the stats of faulkes, we can see that alot of questions are for directory services
<michalski> more specificly samba
<owh> mathiaz: Cool.
<nealmcb> after my big symposium next week I should have more time to try that out
<faulkes-> one of the key things I have found with the forums, is that pointers to documentation, more often than not, do not point to the official documentation
<mathiaz> michalski: ok - did you have a look at the samba section on the server guide ?
<faulkes-> and this causes issues
<faulkes-> I'm still thinking of a way to properly address that, which is more a social issue
<michalski> just a tad mathiaz
<nealmcb> faulkes-: yeah - hopefully the likewise work is exactly what a lot of them need
 * faulkes- nods
<mathiaz> michalski: if you have any comments or modification, don't hesitate to submit a patch to sommer
<mathiaz> michalski: or update the wiki pages.
<ScottK> faulkes-: I think more effort is needed to merge stuff into the official documentation and prune redudant info from the community docs.
<michalski> ok
<mathiaz> michalski: the roadmap has a list of pages related to samba.
<faulkes-> ScottK: I can't argue against that, I will investigate possibly getting involved
<mathiaz> michalski: that needs some cleanup
<michalski> I'll see what I can do, but I have zilch experience with Directory services
<nealmcb> faulkes-: yes - I agree that figuring out how to link forum questions to our best documentation would help a lot
<michalski> either way, i have to go or i'll be late for a meeting out in the real world
<michalski> bye
<nealmcb> getting better google search results for our documentation would help there also
<faulkes-> nealmcb: I will ponder and get creative after a couple of martinis
<nealmcb> maybe advertising how to do google searches specific to the official documentation would help
<owh> Make it a sticky.
<sommer> did we come to a consensus on the documentation motd bug?
<mathiaz> sommer: no.
<mathiaz> sommer: it's part of a bigger question about seed managment.
<sommer> mathiaz: I'm with ya, is there still time to update the motd?
<sommer> seems like that may be a new feature?
<mathiaz> sommer: well - given that we're past FF, it may be not late.
<mathiaz> sommer: it depends on the solution we choose to implement.
<mathiaz> sommer: well - given that we're past FF, it may be too late.
<sommer> mathiaz: gotcha, I'll try and focus on that at the beginning of the next release cycle
<nealmcb> mathiaz: who are the right people to decide what to do with it?
<mathiaz> nealmcb: people
<sommer> seems like general updates were more important this time :-)
<ScottK> We are
<mathiaz> nealmcb: from the platform
<owh> Is there a meeting after us?
<mathiaz> nealmcb: we had a discussion with cjwatson last week
<nealmcb> 5 years of having to explain to people how to get to the documentation from the command line would be a drag
<mathiaz> and we know what's involved now.
<sommer> nealmcb: surely it'll only be the first few months... heh
<mathiaz> well - we've got to move on.
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time.
<mathiaz> next week, same place, same time ?
<faulkes-> WFM
<owh> .
<nijaba> +1
<zul> okiely dokely
<sommer> o//
<nealmcb> I'll be busy then - see you the week after
<owh> soren: You got a moment?
<faulkes-> good meeting folks
<nealmcb> mathiaz: good work - quick meeting
<mathiaz> great then- Thanks all - see ya next week
<nijaba> thanks *
<kirkland> thanks
<mathiaz> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 22:02.
<sommer> later all
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 28 Feb 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 29 Feb 12:00 UTC: MOTU | 05 Mar 07:00 UTC: Platform Team | 08 Mar 11:00 UTC: Kubuntu Developers
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-02-28
<Ziroda1> @schedule Singapore
<ubotu> Schedule for Asia/Singapore: 28 Feb 22:00: Desktop Team | 29 Feb 20:00: MOTU | 05 Mar 15:00: Platform Team | 08 Mar 19:00: Kubuntu Developers
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Desktop Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 29 Feb 12:00 UTC: MOTU | 05 Mar 07:00 UTC: Platform Team | 08 Mar 11:00 UTC: Kubuntu Developers
 * mvo waves
<seb128> hey mvo
<lool> mvo: Did you get well back home?
<mvo> lool: I'm still in london
<mvo> hey seb128
<lool> Oh right, returning tonight only I guess
<mvo> yes, later today
<lool> Good trip to you then
<Riddell> hi
<pedro_> hello!
<Keybuk> just waiting for pitti
<Keybuk> tedg: you made it! :)
<MacSlow> greetings tedg
<MacSlow> tedg, at the airport? :)
 * mpt rubs his eyes
<MacSlow> hi mpt
<tedg> No, I got in about 6 hours ago.
<tedg> For some reason my wireless router missed me, and decided to be angry and not let me on this morning :(
<kwwii> it missed you
<Keybuk> Martin is attempting to fix his network
<Keybuk> and will be with us shortly
<Keybuk> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2008-02-28
<Keybuk> aha, well done
<Keybuk> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2008-02-28
<pitti> hrmpf, sorry; *$#$ network
<Keybuk> I put together the lack of agenda
<Keybuk> so this should be a nice short meeting
<lool> pitti: Be happy that *you* have Internet at home *cough*  ;)
<MacSlow> hey pitti
<MacSlow> hey lool
<pitti> lool: often, at least :)
<Keybuk> As you almost all certainly know, LoÃ¯c will be leaving us and taking on the challenge of filling Mithrandir's shoes as technical lead of the Mobile Team
 * mvo waves goodbye to lool
<Keybuk> he'll be still dabbling in desktop work for the remainder of the release, of course; and whenever he wants
 * lool waves -- we'll still work together!
<MacSlow> lool, wow... I thought you were meant to become full member of the desktop team
<Keybuk> we'll therefore shortly have an open position to fill LoÃ¯c's shoes
 * pitti hugs lool, thanks for your desktop work so far; it was greatly appreciated
<lool> MacSlow: You're a packager now, you can replace me :)
 * MacSlow dies a painfull horrible death
<Keybuk> I've mentioned this before in most of our catch-up calls, but if you know of anybody with good GNOME maintenance, packaging, bug triage/fixing, etc. experience then please do recommend them to me
<Keybuk> lool: but then I'd have to replace him, and nobody's quite as insane with the bling :)
<pitti> . o O { sjoerd }
<Keybuk> I didn't see any agenda items in the summaries this week
 * MacSlow prefers to stay with computer-grapihcs and  UI
<Keybuk> pitti: e-mail :p
<Keybuk> (me)
<tedg> I'm all about GL based packaging tool: gldch -i
<Keybuk> did I miss any agenda items?
<MacSlow> tedg, we can talk about that :)
<Keybuk> apparently not :)
<Keybuk> I didn't see anything added to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReportingPage either <g>
<MacSlow> kwwii just burped like a devil
<pitti> no bling stuff this week, just boring bug fixes
<Keybuk> does anyone have any accomplishments from the past week they'd like to shout about
<lool> Only borring stuff happened
<pitti>  * make Ubuntu work a bit better
<MacSlow> pitti, sorry.. doing packaging training (thanks mvo) and compiz-integration
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> any thing from the activity reports people want to discuss?
 * MacSlow raises hand
<MacSlow> hardy-desktop-effects-profiles is slacking a bit due to package-training.
<seb128> GNOME has been updated to 2.21.92, I think I would write that
<Keybuk> seb128: that would be good to add
<seb128> and I've a svn gvfs snapshot with basic obex and ftp support on my disk
<MacSlow> and next week is CeBIT (off-time) and after that gtk+ hackweek... so I'll have to finish the profiles stuff inbetween somehow *argx*
<Keybuk> seb128: has Christian gotten started on things as well?
<kwwii> we have a new gtk theme as well
<Keybuk> kwwii: that should be added too :)
<seb128> Keybuk: yes, he's actively working on webdav which seems to start working correctly now
<Keybuk> ok, cool
<Keybuk> any other business?
<seb128> hardy is slooooow, but that's not really a meeting thing ;-)
<Keybuk> slow?
<seb128> 2 min from grub to desktop on my new dell laptop which is sloooow
<mvo> io fells slower, but that is very subjective
<pitti> boot is really fast, but gnome session start is sloooow
<kwwii> sometime let me know when it is safe to upgrade from gutsy to hardy please
<seb128> pitti: lucky you
<Keybuk> interesting
<kwwii> s/sometime/someone
<mvo> boot is not fast for me
<mvo> kwwii: do it!
<seb128> pitti: it takes around 35 seconds to get the usplash bar to start moving there
<pitti> gnome session startup is more than 1:30 minutes
<kwwii> mvo: as long as you will offer free telephone support :-)
<seb128> the detecting hardware steps seems to take ages
<Keybuk> seb128: could you install bootchart and throw one onto ubuntu-devel ?
<Keybuk> also udev.log I guess if it's that stage
<seb128> Keybuk: will do
<MacSlow> kwwii, yeah... you coward... update now!
<Keybuk> seb128: that'll encourage others to join in, and we'll get an idea whether it is or not
<Keybuk> ok, let's keep the meeting short then
<Keybuk> thanks everybody
<seb128> http://www.kagou.fr/boot.jpg
<seb128> speaking about speed
<seb128> I was speaking with kagou which was testing random distros
<seb128> the blue bars are grub to gdm, the red ones gdm to desktop
<Keybuk> hardy hasn't had readahead updated yet, so it's not surprising it's slow
<Keybuk> and apparmor is a piece of shit
<Keybuk> . o O { did I just say that out loud? }
<MacSlow> for me only starting compiz takes its time
<MacSlow> everything else is quite fast
<Hobbsee> Keybuk: in a logged channel :)
<pitti> so, thanks everyone
<seb128> thanks
<MacSlow> Hobbsee, everybody has his/her dare-devil-moments :)
<Keybuk> --done--
 * mvo waves
<MacSlow> ok so long
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 29 Feb 12:00 UTC: MOTU | 05 Mar 07:00 UTC: Platform Team | 08 Mar 11:00 UTC: Kubuntu Developers
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-02-29
<carlos_> j
<DPic> why is the default background image in hardy the png version of the image when the svg isn't even as big?
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: MOTU Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 05 Mar 07:00 UTC: Platform Team | 08 Mar 11:00 UTC: Kubuntu Developers
<sistpoty|work> hi folks
 * Hobbsee waves
<sistpoty|work> hi Hobbsee
 * persia had expected to be late, but given the traffic wonders if the meeting perhaps hasn't started yet.
<persia> OK.  Roll call.  Who's here for the MOTU Meeting?
 * Hobbsee is causing trouble, as usual
 * Mithrandir tickles the noisemaker, then runs off and levitates out of Hobbsee's reach.
<persia> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:11. The chair is persia.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings
 * Hobbsee levitates too, and tickles Mithrandir back
<sistpoty|work> who'll do the minutes?
<persia> Welcome to the MOTU Meeting.  The agenda is above.  First item of business:
<persia> [TOPIC] Who does minutes?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Who does minutes?
<sistpoty|work> heh
<Hobbsee> whoever's latest
<sistpoty|work> given that there are logs, I guess I'd volunteer
<persia> Anyone else?
<persia> [AGREED] sistpoty does minutes
<MootBot> AGREED received:  sistpoty does minutes
<persia> [TOPIC] Should Ubuntu Membership be a general requirement for MOTUship?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Should Ubuntu Membership be a general requirement for MOTUship?
<persia> This topic was raised without attribution: who is the champioon?
<persia> I think it was LaserJock, but he seems to be away.  Does anyone else want to lead this?
<persia> Does anyone have any opinion about this?  Shall we defer for the next meeting?
 * sistpoty|work doesn't have a strong opinion, but didn't really think about this tightly though
<sistpoty|work> hence I guess deferring makes the most sense to me, other opinions?
<persia> Any other opinions?
<persia> [AGREED] Defer discussion of Ubuntu Membership as a requirement for MOTU to the next meeting
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Defer discussion of Ubuntu Membership as a requirement for MOTU to the next meeting
<persia> [TOPIC] Feature freeze policy. See  ScottK's email and FeatureFreeze for details
<MootBot> New Topic:  Feature freeze policy. See  ScottK's email and FeatureFreeze for details
<persia> ScottK and LaserJock are both not here, so again, would anyone else like to lead this discussion?
<sistpoty|work> Hobbsee: would you? ;)
<Hobbsee> hm, I could be coerced
<persia> Hobbsee: You do seem to be the representative of motu-release at the meeting...
<Hobbsee> So, we have a feature freeze.  Hopefully this should not be a surprise
<Hobbsee> The policy is currently a feature freeze exception for all packages with new features.
<Hobbsee> this includes native packages, as far as i'm aware.  any disagreements so far?
<sistpoty|work> well, as stated in my reply, I think native packages are some special thingy imho
<Hobbsee> sistpoty|work: what are you thinking?
<persia> I personally think native packages should have slightly different rules, but I'm opposed to native packages in general, so may not be an ideal spokesman for that viewpoint.
<Hobbsee> this isn't getting onto native packages that are bugfix only - that's for later.
<sistpoty|work> well, I can't say I know a sure answer, but my suggestion was that it should be left to whoever uploads a native package to decide if he/she needs an exception or not
<sistpoty|work> *shrug*
<Hobbsee> sistpoty|work: fair call.  I'd hope we'd get to that point, for all packages.
<persia> There are still different sorts of packages, whether native or not.  Should mythbuntu-themes have different rules than xubuntu-themes just because it's not native?
<Hobbsee> (that's been one of my dreams since UDS sevilla, in fact)
<Hobbsee> persia: that's why i'd be leaning to the "any new package that introduces a feature needs a ffe"
<Hobbsee> makes it fairly explicit, and easy to follow
<sistpoty|work> persia: well, mythbuntu-themes was granted a general FFe (due to being limited by artwork deadline rather than FF) iirc
<persia> Hobbsee: That makes sense.
<Hobbsee> right, so does anyone either a) disagree with my proposal, or b) have a better solution?
<persia> sistpoty|work: Yes, my point was about native vs. non-native, rather than the specific package.
<sistpoty|work> Hobbsee: sounds pretty reasonable to me
<persia> Hobbsee: How do we define "new feature"?
<Hobbsee> persia: uh...however we usually do?
<sistpoty|work> e.g. new binary packages from same source package would be an indication
<Hobbsee> persia: do people have trouble figuring what a new feature is?
<persia> [IDEA] any new package that introduces a feature needs a ffe
<MootBot> IDEA received:  any new package that introduces a feature needs a ffe
<persia> Hobbsee: Based on traffic discussing FFe requests in #ubuntu-motu, I'd have to say "Yes".
<Hobbsee> persia: what would be your idea for determing what a feature is?
<Hobbsee> it could be a) "anything that doesn't fix a bug", b) something that creates new functionality
<Hobbsee> iv'e always thought it was option b.  This is not clear enough?
<persia> "Provides additional functionality not available in the current package, for which the lack of functionality is not a regression from a previous release".
<Hobbsee> persia: +1
<Hobbsee> anyone disagree with persia's definition for new feature?
<Hobbsee> persia: [idea] that please
<sistpoty|work> +1
<Hobbsee> okay.  done.
<persia> [idea] A feature is defined as something that "Provides additional functionality not available in the current package, for which the lack of that functionality is not a regression from a previous release"
<MootBot> IDEA received:  A feature is defined as something that "Provides additional functionality not available in the current package, for which the lack of that functionality is not a regression from a previous release"
<Hobbsee> is there anything else we need to cover with packages that need a ffe?
<Hobbsee> are the procedures not clear?  is anyone lost?
<Hobbsee> <echoing silence>
<Hobbsee> right, so
<sistpoty|work> maybe we should add the requirement to need a motu sponsor before asking for a FFe first?
<persia> My understanding was that we were currently working in a somewhat grey zone, and Scott and Jordan wanted MOTU approval for process change allowing new upstreams not introducing new features, etc.
<Hobbsee> sistpoty|work: ah yes, i've been wondering that for a while.
<persia> Speaking as a sponsor, I'd like to see an approved FFe before it gets in the sponsors queue.
<Hobbsee> is it better for our release people to see all the bugs first, or the sponsors, who there are more of?
<persia> There aren't terribly many more sponsors, but I guess it's about even.
<Hobbsee> my problem with sponsors first is that then the release people should upload, or bugs go thru 3 queues.
<sistpoty|work> hm... imho the "i don't know what I'm doing" FFe's (which were quite some in the beginning) dropped in rate
<Hobbsee> sistpoty|work: ok, good
<persia> [IDEA] maybe we should add the requirement to need a motu sponsor before asking for a FFe first?
<MootBot> IDEA received:  maybe we should add the requirement to need a motu sponsor before asking for a FFe first?
<sistpoty|work> and otoh some good ones need sponsors, so it might not be a problem of motu-release atm
<sistpoty|work> I do see a problem with new packages from non-motus though, as currently we defer them to get the package reviewed first, which doesn't always happen
<Hobbsee> my gut feeling is that it's still better for the release team to go through first, and sponsors second.  sponsors should remember that the release people have checked for hte feasibility of the change, not necessarily whether it's correct or not.
<Hobbsee> the release people are going to see fairly quickly if hte bugs are wrong/incomplete, and mark them that wya
<persia> That sounds like it will work better for also handling cases where a MOTU requests a freeze exception.
<sistpoty|work> yeah, I guess unless we're really getting flooded with bad FFe's let's keep the current model
<Hobbsee> sistpoty|work: this is true.  revu still appears to be disaster-land for getting stuff reviewed.
<Hobbsee> i dont' think that's going to be an easy one to solve, nor one that we have to solve now (fortunately)
<persia> It was pretty good up through FF, at which point it went sour again.  Should get better after a new REVU Coordinator is selected in two weeks.
<Hobbsee> yeah, hopefully
<Hobbsee> if we could make sure all the good minds actually get to UDS - in person, or by mic, and discuss togehter, that would be good
<sistpoty|work> well, there are a few good candidates imho (e.g. gnome-lirc-properties)... maybe we could ask the requestor to send a mail to -motu or s.th. to get the package reviewed?
<Hobbsee> sistpoty|work: that's another can of worms - want to get thru the release stuff before deciding revu things?
<persia> Does that work?  It doesn't seem to be doing much for glassfish.  I think it's better for any interested reviewer to help find a second advocate
<persia> OK.  Back to release stuff.  Do we have enough yet to agree on something, or are there more components of the policy to be discussed?
<Hobbsee> i've not been watching REVU, so i can't comment
<Hobbsee> persia: we can, and have, agreed on the first half, i think
 * persia is waiting for the rest of the policy to make minutes more readable
<Hobbsee> the ffe for new features, what a feature is, and to go to release first, then sponsors for nonMOTUs
<Hobbsee> this is all good, i haven't heard objections.
<sistpoty|work> Hobbsee: for me it would make sense to have -release sort out the "we don't want this" packages and give a final ack after the package is reviewed... how could we achieve this?
<Hobbsee> <cue rest of preformatted text>
<sistpoty|work> (still thinking of new packages)
<Hobbsee> sistpoty|work: er...i would have thought they should be doing that *first*, to show what to give reviewer priority for
<persia> sistpoty|work: Isn't that covered by the "please get two advocates on REVU and revisit this bug" note?
<Hobbsee> it's an awful lot of resources to do full reviews and acks, just to be told "this is unsuitable"
<Hobbsee> an "i agree with this package in principle, as soon as it gets done soon"
<sistpoty|work> persia: apart from that it's not really working, I guess so
<persia> sistpoty|work: True.  Hmm...  Might it make sense to raise "How to manage new packages after FF" as a new topic later?
<sistpoty|work> persia: ok
<Hobbsee> in general, the ideal way of making this stuff work is getting things through the conceptual stage first (do we want this in hardy, or not? for eg), then get onto the technical side
<Hobbsee> as the first is quicker than the second
<persia> Hobbsee: Do you have anything else for non-new package FFe policy items?
<Hobbsee> yes
<Hobbsee> However, this time, we've had a new procedure that we have to file bugs for bug-fix only releases.  A lot of people, myself included, have complained about the paperwork.
<Hobbsee> it's also made it more complex than main, which suggests we have a problem with too many processes, or bad people.
<Hobbsee> now, out of these, id' hope it was the people
<persia> [idea] dispense with filing bugs just to close them in the next upload
<MootBot> IDEA received:  dispense with filing bugs just to close them in the next upload
<Hobbsee> so, we've had FF for a couple of weeks - have we actually found *any* bugfix only releases that shouldn't have gone through?
<persia> Personally, I'm in favor of having bugs for anything being done, just to advertise work-in-progress and avoid package interference.
<sistpoty|work> well, there have been at least two syncs given back to motu-release, which were declared as bug fix (but are missing info still, so I can't say if these should go through yet)
<Hobbsee> persia: things tend to get uploaded quickly for MOTU's, and non-MOTUs have already got bugs
<persia> (unless it's ~15 minutes of work, but that's not typically the case for a new upstream version)
<Hobbsee> persia: have you had conflicts of work with bugs recently?
<persia> Hobbsee: I'd claim that the MOTU ought be looking at those as well.
<Hobbsee> sistpoty|work: right.  by MOTU's or non-motus?
<Hobbsee> persia: oh, sure, no question there.
<sistpoty|work> Hobbsee: motus (the same one actually)
<persia> Not when there is a bug filed, but sistpoty|work & I played ping-pong with a package recently when making quick changes, and we ought have discussed it more rather than each uploading.
<Hobbsee> sistpoty|work: have you spoken to the MOTU in question about it?
<sistpoty|work> persia: heh, but it did work out at least, didn't it? ;)
<Hobbsee> sistpoty|work: if it's only one person, then resolving that with them might be more effective than giving rules for everyone
<persia> sistpoty|work: I think so.  At least it works for us :)
<sistpoty|work> Hobbsee: not yet, wasn't online when I saw it
<Hobbsee> sistpoty|work: right.  can you do so at some point in the future please?
<sistpoty|work> Hobbsee: sure
<Hobbsee> sistpoty|work: thanks
<Hobbsee> again, i suspect that checking that the last uploader isn't already working on something is a good idea for new versions, etc
<sistpoty|work> generally, I still believe that it makes sense to have bugs (1-> think before uploading, 2-> motu-release can see the state of the package better, if there should later be trouble)...
<Hobbsee> sistpoty|work: for 1, why not encourage people to think before *signing*, so it works all cycle?
<sistpoty|work> however I must admit that I'd currently drop that bug requirement, merely because it's just not getting done by the majority, and it's different from main
<Hobbsee> sistpoty|work: what, it's documented "new upstream release"?  :)
<persia> It need not be a new bug: there's often upgrade bugs lying about for many packages.
<sistpoty|work> Hobbsee: 2) it's documented what bug(s) have been there
<Hobbsee> sistpoty|work: what do you mean?
<sistpoty|work> Hobbsee: well, I'd like to see for example oh, now we have a new feature version, and there have been 10 bugs in the past, one being a new upstream bugfix version which solved lots of bugs
<sistpoty|work> s.th. like that...
<sistpoty|work> but as I wrote earlier, currently I'd drop that requirement to file bugs
<Hobbsee> sistpoty|work: arent' people supposed to be listing bugs being closed in debian/changelog?
<persia> sistpoty|work: Where there are existing bugs, is it not better to close those than to open a special new bug?
<sistpoty|work> Hobbsee: not if there are no bugs in bts (but known only be the maintainer for example)
<Hobbsee> sistpoty|work: that *should* give us the documentation advantage, of <list of bugs> being fixed with this upload, with the new version
 * persia thinks a special new bug should only be required when there are no other open bugs being fixed by the new upstream
<Hobbsee> sistpoty|work: i dont' see how that helps with bugs that are only known to the maintainer
<Hobbsee> if others have noticed, then they'll have filed a bug.  clearly tehy haven't, so why would htey now notice, or care, that a bug htey didn't know about before has been fixed?
<Hobbsee> i don't think i'm seeing your point here
<persia> Hobbsee: "Maintainer"?  We're talking about universe here.
<Hobbsee> persia: sistpoty|work's definition.
<sistpoty|work> Hobbsee: then why should such a new upstream version get uploaded in the first place?
<Hobbsee> sistpoty|work: if it fell under the bugfix only rules?
<sistpoty|work> Hobbsee: but what bug fixes it? (that's what I like to know)
<Hobbsee> upstream bug number blah?
<persia> sistpoty|work: Might be a new upstream that upstream reported as "bugfix", or that someone thought might just be bugfix from review from a more general upstream announcement.
<Hobbsee> bugs don't fix versions, last i checked.  it's the other way aorund
<Hobbsee> sistpoty|work: i may be misunderstanding you, but i don't see what the point of filing a bug is that contains effectively the same information as what should be in debian/changelog
<sistpoty|work> it's easier to lookup, and it too often is *not* part of debian/changelog :(
<sistpoty|work> anyway how about voting to still have the requirement of filing a bug?
<Hobbsee> sistpoty|work: ugh.  others of us do not share your love of launchpad :)
<persia> sistpoty|work: Perhaps having it be part of debian/changelog should be part of FF requirements, and anything not meeting that requirement should get email from motu-release asking for details?
<sistpoty|work> heh
<Hobbsee> sistpoty|work: instead of filing a bug, i'd like to make it mandatory to list the changes, or the main changes (whichever), in debian/changelog
<Hobbsee> persia: +1
<Hobbsee> (for non-ffe's
<sistpoty|work> sure, that makes sense
<Hobbsee> (that's the eventual point i was getting at)
<Hobbsee> right, so any dissentions?
<Hobbsee> <pause>
<Hobbsee> <pin drop>
<Hobbsee> for consistancy, and general use, can we make it mandatory to list the upstream changes, or the more important ones in the changelog for both bugfix and feature releases?
<Hobbsee> that would be really useful.
<persia> Perhaps something like http://paste.ubuntu.com/5137/ ?
<persia> [IDEA] make it mandatory to list the upstream changes, or the more important ones in the changelog for both bugfix and feature releases
<MootBot> IDEA received:  make it mandatory to list the upstream changes, or the more important ones in the changelog for both bugfix and feature releases
<Hobbsee> persia: yeah, exactly
<sistpoty|work> +1
<Hobbsee> i know seb128, etc, tends to do that with his gnome releases, which works well
<Hobbsee> right.
<persia> I think those are sometimes a little extra-wordy, but it's some help.
<Hobbsee> so, at the end, we have covered:
<Hobbsee> the ffe for new features, what a feature is, and to go to release first, then sponsors for nonMOTUs
<Hobbsee> bugfix only releases
<Hobbsee> what needs to be in debian/changelog for ALL new upstream releases.
<persia> My list has "require a bug for new upstream" rather than "bugfix only releases".
<Hobbsee> persia: new upstream release *with features*
<persia> (or rather "dispense with filing bugs just to close them in the next upload")
<sistpoty|work> persia: can we get an agreed to drop it?
<Hobbsee> sistpoty|work: we just did.  this is the summary, afaik.
<persia> sistpoty|work: I suppose.  I wanted to make sure we got all the FF bits discussed, and then propose a summary.
<persia> Hobbsee: Just to confirm, are there any more components?
<Hobbsee> persia: just did that.  i can email the list about the new policy if you want
<sistpoty|work> kk
<Hobbsee> persia: only new packages post-ff
<Hobbsee> my current proposal for that was listed above:
<persia> Should that be part of this topic, or the next?
<Hobbsee> mmm, the next.
<Hobbsee> ie, the one that starts now :)
<persia> I'm thinking it's more about mechanics and procedure than policy, and would like to go ahead with this if we can.
<Hobbsee> right
<Hobbsee> so if we want a new, post-ff package in ubuntu
<Hobbsee> then the user files a bug (likely already done), lists why it should be a part of ubuntu, even though it's late.  <include all the whiny excuses about disorganisation, etc, here>
<Hobbsee> subscribes motu-release
<Hobbsee> motu release says yay/nay for the release.
<persia> wait...
<Hobbsee> then reviewers look
<Hobbsee> that's my scarecrow proposal.  tear apart as you wish
<sistpoty|work> ooops, I'm totally sorry, but I gotta rush to a meeting right now
<persia> [AGREED] Any new package or new upstream version that introduces a feature needs an approved FFe prior to upload.
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Any new package or new upstream version that introduces a feature needs an approved FFe prior to upload.
<Hobbsee> oh, sorry.  trying to get this over quickly, as we're already late
<persia> [AGREED] Any upload post-feature freeze must contain full details of the bugs fixed in debian/changelog
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Any upload post-feature freeze must contain full details of the bugs fixed in debian/changelog
<persia> [TOPIC] Handling new packages after Feature Freeze
<MootBot> New Topic:  Handling new packages after Feature Freeze
<persia> Sorry.  Just catching up.
<Hobbsee> no problem
<persia> OK.  Proposal is that motu-release approves a bug, it gets reviewed on REVU, and uploaded, right?
<Hobbsee> yes
<persia> Should it involve universe sponsors for attention, as REVU is fairly quiet these days?
<Hobbsee> so, if MOTU-release approves the bug, they know that it's going to take an archive admin's time, and think that they'll have the time
<Hobbsee> that would be a good idea
<persia> Any other suggestions, opinions, comments?
<Hobbsee> only that if it is too late, and the archive admins don't have time, then tehy won't review anyway.
<Hobbsee> so any packages which *do* have good reasons to get an ack, but are still very late, may not get in just due to timing.
<persia> That sounds like a footnote for policy.  Maybe a hard freeze on new packages for BetaFreeze or something?
<Hobbsee> *shrug*
<mok0> It would be useful to get the revu workflow merged into the one being discussed at the moment
<Hobbsee> i'd prefer to keep it open for some mega-mega-shiny-extra-special-zomg-the-sky-is-falling package.  everything else -release will reject.
<persia> Hobbsee: Makes sense
<Hobbsee> mok0: not with this many people, i suspec.t
<Hobbsee> persia: right, so +1?
<persia> mok0: Probably best to work on getting https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Spec/ReviewProcessConvergence as a UDS discussion topic
<Hobbsee> please make sure you do that over VOIP
<persia> Hobbsee: Works for me.
<Hobbsee> i didn't get an invite, probably due to inactivity and causing hell, but i'd still like to be there and contribute
<persia> Any disagreement with the proposed workflow for new packages after feature freeze?
<Hobbsee> nope
<persia> Hobbsee: VoIP, email, IRC, and sleeping in UDS timezone goes a long way :)
<Hobbsee> yeah, true
<Hobbsee> i know - iv'e been there, and contributed from the outside before.  it's tough.
<persia> [AGREED] New source packages proposed after FeatureFreeze require motu-release approval for the package inclusion bug prior to upload.  motu-release will subscribe the sponsors when approving to request review and processing of the REVU candidate.
<MootBot> AGREED received:  New source packages proposed after FeatureFreeze require motu-release approval for the package inclusion bug prior to upload.  motu-release will subscribe the sponsors when approving to request review and processing of the REVU candidate.
<persia> OK.  Any other topics?
<Hobbsee> hm
<Hobbsee> none from me, i don't think
<persia> Anyone else?
<Hobbsee> getting more people to proxy for meetings might be a good one, though
<mok0> I'd like to ask what happened to ubuntuwire
<persia> mok0: not really a MOTU thing, but there's an authentication issue with modifying DNS to use alternate hosts.
<Hobbsee> is imbrandon here?
<mok0> qa, that is. It is detrimental to debugging work that it is not up
<Hobbsee> ah
<persia> mok0: Agreed.  It's about half-on topic :)
<mok0> There are a lot of MOTU resources on that machine
<Hobbsee> i guess that's a topic for #ubuntuwire
<persia> #ubuntuwire can't really do anything now, but yes, that is where it belongs.
<mok0> Well, I think it is a problem at a critical time when we are trying to get hardy in shape
<Hobbsee> mok0: and you're talking to the wrong people about it, i think
<persia> mok0: Well, we didn't have it for the last 7 releases, so we'll get by...
<persia> Anyway, back on the meeting so we can end it.
<mok0> That's a poor argument, persia
<Hobbsee> interesting.  you can ssh into your own machine.  i didn't know that.
<mok0> Another thing:
<Hobbsee> meeting closed.  any objections?
<mok0> never mind
<persia> mok0: What's the other thing?
<Hobbsee> mok0: go ahead, if it's a MOTU thing
<mok0> I'd like to suggest that we have a logo contest for a new Universe logo
<persia> [TOPIC] logo contest for a new Universe logo
<MootBot> New Topic:  logo contest for a new Universe logo
<persia> "New" logo?  I didn't know we had one.
<mok0> Well, theres the ubuntu logo with a big fat U on top of it
<persia> Do you have a link?
 * mok0 thinks
<mok0> I've seen it on a list of packages
<mok0> Anyway, perhaps it would be good to profile the community part of Ubuntu a bit more
<mok0> and a logo would be a good thing for that
<Hobbsee> mok0: want to email the list about it?
<mok0> Sure. It can be discussed there
<persia> Also, it seems more a marketing / advocacy thing than a development thing.  Might be good to cc: those groups.
<mok0> ok
<persia> [AGREED] mok0 to lead logo discussion on the mailing lists
<MootBot> AGREED received:  mok0 to lead logo discussion on the mailing lists
<persia> Anything else?
<Hobbsee> nope
<Hobbsee> persia: are you emailing the list about the freeze stuff as part of your minutes, or am i doing the minutes as part of the motu freeze stuff?
<persia> Hobbsee: sistpoty is doing minutes (as agreed above).  If you'd be willing to update the wiki to indicate the new freeze rules, that would be great.
<Hobbsee> oh, i thought you were
<Hobbsee> hmm, i'll try
<persia> [ACTION] Hobbsee to update the wiki with the agreed freeze rules
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Hobbsee to update the wiki with the agreed freeze rules
<persia> As a last note, the next MOTU Meeting will be 14th March, 20:00 UTC.  Anyone willing to notify the fridge and send annoucements to the mailing list?
<persia> [ACTION] persia to send announcements for the next meeting
<MootBot> ACTION received:  persia to send announcements for the next meeting
<persia> Thanks everyone for joining the meeting.  See you next time.
<persia> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:29.
<persia> sistpoty|work: http://kryten.incognitus.net/mootbot/meetings/ubuntu-meeting.20080229_1211.html
<persia> http://kryten.incognitus.net/mootbot/meetings/ubuntu-meeting.log.20080229_1211.html
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 05 Mar 07:00 UTC: Platform Team | 08 Mar 11:00 UTC: Kubuntu Developers
<emgent> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 05 Mar 07:00: Platform Team | 08 Mar 11:00: Kubuntu Developers
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-03-01
<Varka> tag
<Hobbsee> ?
<jpatrick> Hobbsee: forgot your german already? :)
<Hobbsee> jpatrick: oh.  didn't think of that
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-02-23
* apw changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https/topic://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/
* apw changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/
<MK-BB> Hi, did the meeting begin??
<jcastro> nope
<boredandblogging> juliux, popey, keffie_jayx, JanC: ping
<popey> yo!
<boredandblogging> hey
<juliux> boredandblogging: pong
<boredandblogging> hi juliux
<boredandblogging> i know keffie_jayx is around
<Jihui_Choi> hi boredandblogging.
<boredandblogging> hello Jihui_Choi
<boredandblogging> Jihui_Choi: you are here for LoCo approval?
<Jihui_Choi> yes.
<boredandblogging> we have quorum but lets give keffie_jayx and JanC a few minutes
<Jihui_Choi> how many people is needed?
<boredandblogging> Jihui_Choi: 3
<juliux> boredandblogging: are you going to the next uds?
<boredandblogging> juliux: have to check my work session
<keffie_jayx> Hey i'm here
<boredandblogging> juliux: you?
<Jihui_Choi> humm.. I hope we have more than 3 at this time.
<boredandblogging> hopefully JanC_ will arrive soon
<juliux> boredandblogging: i have filled a sponsoring request
<boredandblogging> juliux: cool
<boredandblogging> lets do Korea first since they were here for the last meeting
<keffie_jayx> So have i
<boredandblogging> Jihui_Choi: when did the LoCo start?
<boredandblogging> their approval application: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KoreanTeam/ApprovalApplication
<juliux> nice logo;)
<Jihui_Choi> as my known, since the late of 2005
<JanC> I'm here
<keffie_jayx> Ok
<boredandblogging> JanC: cool, we are looking at the Korean application
<Jihui_Choi> one of our member made the logo. the yin and yang symbol means our nation flag.
<boredandblogging> Jihui_Choi: do most people use hanirc over freenode?
<Jihui_Choi> yes. in korea, most of people use hanirc.
<Jihui_Choi> irc.hanirc.org
<popey> Jihui_Choi: is there more than one team in Korea? I recall seeing multiple edits of the loco team list a while ago, from people changing the Korea entry?
<Jihui_Choi> for  checking our channel in hanirc, visit irc.hanirc.org/6661 or 6666 #ubuntu
<Jihui_Choi> popey, well.. it's a little complicate..
<Jihui_Choi> But it's a just happening.
<popey> Is there some conflict?
<Jihui_Choi> there is no another team.
<Jihui_Choi> nope. just A TROLL made some problem.
<popey> It seems to have stopped now.
<Jihui_Choi> I'm sorry I don't know how to explain
<popey> Jihui_Choi: What do you guys have planned for the coming year ahead?
<Jihui_Choi> my friend will help me. wait please
<popey> no, it's fine, you don't need to explain further, I understand.
<Jihui_Choi> yes. at first, we will hold a seminar in May.
<effie_jayx> Jihui_Choi, are you planning to have a freenode channel anytime?
<Jihui_Choi> we aleady have #ubuntu-ko
<EugeneLee> popey:  one of person who want to controled loco team but he made some legal problem so he had sueing
<Jihui_Choi> and from now, we'll make more active via our form link..
<popey> EugeneLee: oh dear
<Jihui_Choi> Thank you EugeneLee
<EugeneLee> :P
<popey> I dont think it really matters where the irc channel is, so long as they have plenty of contribution
<popey> and people can find it :)
<popey> Jihui_Choi: are there any specific things you guys do to promote the use of Ubuntu?
<Jihui_Choi> I think so. we plan to use #ubuntu-ko in irc.freenode.net for official support. and #ubuntu in hanirc for our chat.
<Jihui_Choi> not yet. we want to get some CDs, but now we plan to make our own distrubution.
<effie_jayx> Jihui_Choi, just as long as you are able to point people to your channel it should be fine
<Jihui_Choi> ah.. we want to use the domain. ubutu-ko.org
<Jihui_Choi> ubuntu-kr.org
<boredandblogging> Jihui_Choi: how are translations going?
<Jihui_Choi> effie_jayx, I see. thank you.
<Jihui_Choi> about 50%..
<Jihui_Choi> our translation team was broken. but now we have some volunteers, and tranlation rate is growing
<popey> Jihui_Choi: what do you have planned for the Seminar in May?
<Jihui_Choi> wait a minute please. sorry
<MK-1> popey; im here to help Jihui_Choi out
<Jihui_Choi> thank you MK-1.
<popey> Hi
<Jihui_Choi> we have 4 topic for beginner, and 2 topic for advanced.
<popey> Training sessions? Education?
<MK-1> yes basically yes
<MK-1> there will be an Intro for the beginners and 2 projects for the advanced users
<popey> Did you participate in the bug jam the last two days at all?
<Jihui_Choi> and time for sharing some hardware stuff. and helping to set up ubuntu for laptop and mobile deivce.
<MK-1> one of the basic things will be
<boredandblogging> Jihui_Choi, MK-1 how will you advertise or promote the seminars?
<MK-1> to use ubuntu as desktop
<popey> sounds good
<JanC> how "big" are these seminars?
<Jihui_Choi> using forum and some site about linux.
<effie_jayx> MK-1, in the todo list in the koren new wiki. there is mention of MOTU work. could you tell me a bit about your incursion in MOTU?
<Jihui_Choi> we plan about for 50s.
<Jihui_Choi> does MOTU mean this? "Maintain our own Ubuntu GNU/Linux distribution"
<MK-1> boredandblogging, we are planning to put an ad in the korean linux communty forums and some open source newspaper
<Jihui_Choi> For now, there are some problem to use korean after ubuntu installation.
<Jihui_Choi> So we edit official distribution for our environment.
<effie_jayx> ok thanks
<Jihui_Choi> add korean language pack and some package for korean.
<boredandblogging> lets vote
<boredandblogging> +1
<juliux> +1
<effie_jayx> +1 from me... great work on events and keep it up
<popey> Ok, I'm undecided.
<popey> I like what the guys are doing, and they're clearly enthusiastic.
<popey> hmm, +1
<popey> :)
<boredandblogging> congrats Korean Team!
<johnc4510> w00t for the Korean team
<Jihui_Choi> thank you popey, boredandblogging, juliux, effie_jayx :)
<bundo> Oh Thank you ^^ ~
<MK-1> thank you guys.
<JanC> are you guys trying to get the changes in your PPA upstream?
<effie_jayx> Jihui_Choi, keep up the great work and please do extend our gratitude to the team
<boredandblogging> jcastro: ping
<jcastro> pong!
<Jihui_Choi> Of course. we want to help people. and more many people know about ubuntu
<Jihui_Choi> effie_jayx, I see. I notice and encourge our members, especially developers..
<MK-1> JanC; the upstream will be fixed soon.
<JanC> MK-1: good
<boredandblogging> jcastro: whats on your mind?
<MK-1> that is in the agenda right now
<MK-1> so.. no worries there.
<jcastro> boredandblogging: well, I would like to propose moving mailing list approval for LoCo teams to the Loco council
<jcastro> initially I was assigned this task to clear up the queue
<jcastro> but it was a temporary measure
<Jihui_Choi> wow.. now is 5 am in korea. I slept just 3 hours for this.
<jcastro> so what I would like to do is hand over that responsibility to the loco council
<Jihui_Choi> but I'm so happy. I really appreciate you guys. :)
<jcastro> basically that means logging into rt.ubuntu.com, and looking at mailing list requests
<boredandblogging> jcastro: are you getting flooded with requests?
<jcastro> and then approving/declining them
<jcastro> no, after I cleared the queue I get maybe 5 a month now
<jcastro> the reason I want to move isn't because of workload, it's because this should be the domain of the loco council
<boredandblogging> right
<popey> sounds like a plan
<boredandblogging> +1
<jcastro> ok so i was wondering
<jcastro> do you each apply for RT accounts, or do we make one for the entire council?
<juliux> jcastro: i think we talked about that already at uds in prague but at the end we don't get the task and also don't get rt accounts;)
<jcastro> and then change the password when you change membership or something
<jcastro> juliux: yes, at prague is when this was assigned to me
<boredandblogging> either way is fine with me
<JanC> I think I already have an rt account somewhere...?
<popey> i would have separate accounts
<popey> then we have tracability
<popey> minus typos though
<popey> i see no reason for us not to have separate accounts
<jcastro> also, I am not sure if there are that many for there to need seperate accounts
<jcastro> it's not like there are millions of these
<popey> no, but it would solve the "Who authorised this!?"
<popey> and would not require us to go mailing people or getting elmo to dig out IP addresses
<jcastro> ok, so I will open a ticket then for having you all getting RT accounts
<jcastro> or do you want to all apply for accounts individually?
<boredandblogging> think JanC and I already have accounts
<boredandblogging> but if we need to put in some group or something
<jcastro> ok so the others mail rt@ubuntu.com and get accounts
<jcastro> and then I will show you guys how to do it?
<juliux> cool
<boredandblogging> or a wiki page with instructions
<jcastro> ok
<popey> \o/ screencast
<popey> :)
<boredandblogging> LOL
<popey> j/k
<jcastro> heh
<jcastro> ok that's all I have unless you guys have more questions?
<popey> will requests go to the mailing list?
<popey> or us individually?
<popey> or something else
<jcastro> they go into rt
<jcastro> and it mails you after elmo assigns it to your group or whatever
<popey> right
<popey> so when someone leaves the council we just yank their id from the group?
<jcastro> and then you say "approve, IS please make this list", assign to "Anyone" and then that's it
<jcastro> right
<popey> groovy, makes sense
<jcastro> then IS goes and makes it
<popey> woot, responsiblity, Go us!
<jcastro> you don't do any mailman admin or anything like that
<popey> ok
<boredandblogging> cool
<jcastro> basically, you're there to tell the IS team that that group applying for a list is sane.
<boredandblogging> awight
<boredandblogging> so...
<boredandblogging> Saturday is the locoteams meeting
<boredandblogging> we were going to have the French Team...
 * popey fires a mail to rt@  "OI! Gimmie an account!"
<popey> or words to that effect
<boredandblogging> but I don't think thats going to work out
<boredandblogging> popey: think you have to include some curse words
 * popey edits his request
<popey> "Nick Ali said '..."
<effie_jayx> lol
<boredandblogging> hah
<boredandblogging> ummm
<boredandblogging> yes back to locoteams meeting
<boredandblogging> saturday
<boredandblogging> should be fun
<boredandblogging> juliux: maybe you want the German Team doing the next -locoteams meeting?
<boredandblogging> (not this saturday)
<juliux> boredandblogging: do we have a date?
<juliux> we are busy with cebit next week
<popey> after cebit would be great
<popey> whilst its all fresh in your mind
<popey> :D
<juliux> the weekend after that i am at the next fair;9
<juliux> so 21/22 march is the earliest;)
<popey> that isnt a problem is it?
<popey> we didnt want them _too_ often
<boredandblogging> agreed
<boredandblogging> juliux: we can work on a schedule after the first -locoteams meeting
<juliux> i think i will check with the rest of the team when in amrch we can do it
<boredandblogging> ok
<boredandblogging> anything else?
<popey> dont think so
<popey> date of the next non-motivational-session-meeting
<juliux> lol
<juliux> 16.3 ?
<boredandblogging> 16.3 is fine with me
<popey> looks good
<juliux> good;)
<JanC> looks okay
<juliux> i will write it into my paper calendar in my kitchen;)
<johnc4510> nice meeting council thx :) I'm especially glad to see boredandblogging having to do some work  LOL
<boredandblogging> sweet
<boredandblogging> thanks everyone!
<juliux> johnc4510: hehe
<popey> \o/
<johnc4510> :)
<boredandblogging> johnc4510: lol
<popey> johnc4510: he's our whipping boy
<johnc4510> oooooooooh nice
<boredandblogging> I am!
<johnc4510> LOL
<popey> assuming of course that doesn't have any negative connotations internationally of course :D
<popey> ahem
<boredandblogging> haha
<boredandblogging> heh
<tyche> I'm glad somebody's got the whips out for boredandblogging.  Heehee
<boredandblogging> you guys are rough
<tyche> We had a good teacher.  Somebody by the name of Nick
<boredandblogging> you shush
<tyche> ROFLMAOPMP
<johnc4510> lol
<boredandblogging> alright, meeting adjourned, johnc4510 and tyche are having too much fun at my expense!
<effie_jayx> thanks everyone for attending and congrast to the korean team
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-02-24
<TheMuso> amachu: Hey there.
<amachu> hi
<amachu> TheMuso:
<amachu> elky: Hi
<elky> amachu, hi
<amachu> persia: elky: TheMuso: Hi
<TheMuso> Hey elky.
<amachu> long since we met
<elky> w00t. quorum
<amachu> persia: are you there?
<amachu> we need persia
<amachu> lifeless: Hi
<elky> i mistook you addressing him as him being here, sorry
<amachu> either lifeless or persia
<lifeless> hi
<lifeless> I forgot about the precise time; I need to go eat or I won't get dinner at all :(
<amachu> Ooof
<amachu> lifeless: lets check candidates' presence
<amachu> MaWaLe: Hi
<MaWaLe> hi all
<amachu> MaWaLe: alone appear to be here
<MaWaLe> i think so
<amachu> lifeless: Will you be available or going out for dinner
<amachu> elky: ok
<amachu> elky: TheMuso: lifeless: Shall we start
<TheMuso> sre
<amachu> how about lifeless?
<elky> amachu, i suspect he's off getting food
<lifeless> amachu: I'm not at home, I'm at a colleagues; the only food is take out, so I need to walk out the door in the next 10 minutes tops
<lifeless> or things are shut == no food
<amachu> okie
<lifeless> sorry :(
<amachu> then persia?
<lifeless> totally my fault
 * lifeless waves bye
<amachu> or can you be back by 30 min
<amachu> I am Ok with it
<amachu> how about elky and TheMuso
<TheMuso> I'm here.
<lifeless> I will be back in nearly an hour
 * lifeless is really gone
<elky> amachu, we still lack quorum until we have a fourth
<amachu> an hour is too long
<amachu> elky: Yes
<elky> we dont have a choice.
<amachu> i am looking for persia to wake up :-(
<amachu> MaWaLe: Tought times for you!
<TheMuso> Idle for over 4 days
<TheMuso> He keeps odd hours as well, and is not always on IRC at regular times.
<amachu> ok
<amachu> TheMuso: elky: I suppose better luck next week..
<TheMuso> Yeah, lets hope so.
<elky> amachu, yep, see you then
<amachu> elky: wait, you have any nominations for the board
<amachu> TheMuso: you?
<amachu> I do not have as of now
<elky> ajmitch, none that i've spoken to, unfortunately
<TheMuso> amachu: no
<elky> er, amachu
<amachu> okie
<elky> although, ajmitch would be a perfect victim :P
<elky> he qualifies by being in the right part of the globe anyway
<amachu> elky: wiki of ajmitch?
<elky> amachu, dunno. maybe we should ask him privately first
<amachu> may be you can narrate about your nomination to the mailing list
<amachu> so that we all can look at it
<elky> amachu, how about we ask him first.
<amachu> when others aren't aware, how can we?
<amachu> may be he is here now
<amachu> We can do so ;-)
<elky> amachu, since it was not a planned nomination on my behalf, i've not had the chance to ask him myself. which i would do for anyone before putting forth to the council.
<ajmitch> elky: whosit what?
<elky> ajmitch, see PM
<amachu> elky: ok
<amachu> elky: you can elaborate to everyone on the list
<amachu> fine
<amachu> we will wind up then for this week..
 * elky headdesks
<amachu> If there isn't any clash, we will likely have our next meeting on March 3 at 1500 UTC
<amachu> elky: TheMuso: bye bye
<elky> amachu, cya
<TheMuso> bye, and damn, I won't be at that one, too late for me.
<elky> yeah, that's too late for all the aussies
<dholbach> hey robbiew
<robbiew> howdy :)
<Keybuk> mdz, cjwatson: ping?
<cjwatson> yo
<cjwatson> are we expecting sabdfl?
<Keybuk> he's a little like the Spanish Inquisition
<robbiew> ?
<Keybuk> robbiew: NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION
<dholbach> NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION!
<cjwatson> robbiew: please tell me you've seen monty python
<mdz> Keybuk: hi
<cjwatson> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Spanish_Inquisition_(Monty_Python)
<robbiew> heh
<mdz> I passed sabdfl in a meeting room on the way here, he didn't look finished
<robbiew> cjwatson: yes..I have
<mdz> clan says he's coming though
<mdz> cjwatson,Keybuk: randa is helping to manage the agenda, it should be up to date on the wiki now
<mdz> what I would like is to have the agenda always reflect everything which is outstanding for the TB
<mdz> and at each meeting we will checkpoint status on everything and close out items which are complete
<cjwatson> wfm
<mdz> does that sound reasonable to you?
<Keybuk> it dods
<Keybuk> does too
<mdz> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:04. The chair is mdz.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<mdz> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
<cjwatson> is the mailing list question an old one? I hadn't encountered it before
<mdz> agenda is now up to date
<cjwatson> although I remember that we discussed the same question on the Community Council some time back
<mdz> cjwatson: it's a new one
<Keybuk> I thought the reason we had it private was it allowed us to discuss developer applications without them being Google fodder for their future job applications?
<cjwatson> that was the same kind of reason that we determined community-council@ should be private, yes
<mdz> Keybuk: was that it?  I couldn't remember and it's come up again, so I added it to the agenda
<Keybuk> mdz: I certainly remember that discussion in Oxford
<mdz> it may have been long enough to revisit it :-)
<cjwatson> what are the arguments for making it public?
<cjwatson> just that we should have arguments for keeping it private? :-)
<Keybuk> and where is the proposal to make it public?
<mdz> right here :-)
<dholbach> In the case of the CC there are a few cases where conflict resolution happens before it gets discussed in a public meeting. Not sure how relevant that is in the case of the TB.
<mdz> [TOPIC] Should technical-board@lists.ubuntu.com be public?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Should technical-board@lists.ubuntu.com be public?
<sabdfl> -1
<mdz> not calling for a vote, I'm looking for input
<cjwatson> I would at minimum be concerned of the need to review existing content before blatting it into public view, since people were expecting privacy
<Keybuk> we should iterate the reasons for making it public
<Keybuk> and the reasons for keeping it private
<mdz> motu-council@ serves many similar purposes and is public
<cjwatson> I'm not sure that I've been on the board long enough to have a feel for the sorts of things typically posted there at the moment
<sabdfl> i bet they have conversations off-list
<mdz> cjwatson: I can send you the archives if it would help
<Keybuk> on the private side is the desire that developer application discussions not be archived by google forever
<cjwatson> I have the archives, I just haven't had time to read them all :-)
<Keybuk> (we do cc the developer involved, so they're not private to them)
<mdz> technical-board@ serves two purposes
<mdz> 1. a contact address to reach the TB (and only the TB)
<cjwatson> I actually have a specific concern about motu-council@ based on recent conversations I've had elsewhere
<mdz> 2. a mailing list to discuss TB matters
<mdz> for 1., private is appropriate, but for 2., it is not really
<cjwatson> I'm concerned that there is *not enough* negative discussion of applications, because people are concerned about "being mean"
<cjwatson> and I don't think that's appropriate for a neutral applications committeee
<cjwatson> -e
<sabdfl> +1
<mdz> one reason this has come up (this time) is that there are various people who are helping out the TB
<sabdfl> then cc them
<mdz> we can't control who is CCed when people mail technical-board@
<mdz> and for my part, I can't always keep up with the mail to forward things
<Keybuk> are you thinking specifically of randa here
<mdz> there's also the general principle of transparency
<mdz> Keybuk: also jono
<mdz> and dholbach
<Keybuk> my concern is that I think that people should expect privacy when they mail TB
<cjwatson> I would be happy with specific extra people being subscribed to technical-board@, personally
<sabdfl> i agree that transparency has value, so would be +1 on a public list and private list, if folks didn't object to the irritation of having two lists
<mdz> [LINK] http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/techboard
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/techboard
<sabdfl> there needs to be a quick, easy and memorable way to talk privately to or among the TB
<Keybuk> while the nature of such mails is probably less problematic than CC (we don't tend to tender "blah sucks and hates me" type mails), I don't think it's quite zero
<sabdfl> i don't know if LP supports private mailing lists
<mdz> The Technical Board is responsible for the following documents and processes: 1. The Ubuntu Package Policy, 2. Ubuntu Release Feature Goals, 3. Ubuntu Package Selection
<mdz> none of that stuff should be private
<cjwatson> the CC certainly gets private discussion of major social blow-ups, or used to, which isn't the case for us
<mdz> the page doesn't talk about developer applications, though I agree with the arguments to keep those more confidential
<cjwatson> there is a separate website bug about the out-of-date-ness of that web page :-)
<mdz> cjwatson: ye
<mdz> s
<mdz> an old one
<dholbach> in case you're not aware of it: everything related to developer applications (in the case of the MC) is public
<mdz> [LINK] http://launchpad.net/bugs/248729
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://launchpad.net/bugs/248729
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 248729 in ubuntu-website "/processes/techboard out of date" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<cjwatson> dholbach: have you considered whether this is in fact desirable?
<dholbach> cjwatson: we did not get any complaints or concerns about it yet
<cjwatson> I heard a specific concern recently that somebody wanted to express negative feedback, and was told not to be mean
<Keybuk> dholbach: have you considered that you won't get complaints or concerns if the compaints and concerns are public too?
<mdz> perhaps the question I've asked is too broad; for my purposes it would be sufficient if TB delegates could be subscribed to the list
<cjwatson> now, I haven't gone and looked into the history, but this is something that concerns me deeply
<mdz> cjwatson: could we handle the question about motu-council as a separate agenda item?
<cjwatson> certainly
<dholbach> there's surely a middle ground of expressing concern or advising to "reapply again in a few weeks" without being mean
<cjwatson> although I think it's germane to this point
<mdz> cjwatson: agreed, just trying to steer to a conclusion
<cjwatson> dholbach: there is, but in some cases the response simply ought to be negative
<cjwatson> I realise that both of us tend towards the state of being nice to people where possible :-)
<mdz> are there any objections to subscribing select people to the TB list who are participating but not actually on the TB?
<cjwatson> I have no objection to that
<Keybuk> I have no objections either
<mdz> sabdfl: thoughts on that option?
<sabdfl> +1
<sabdfl> that should be transparent, though :-)
<mdz> ok
<mdz> thanks
<mdz> separately, I'd like to reaffirm that where possible, we should shift discussion of public matters from t-b@ onto ubuntu-devel@
<mdz> e.g. policy discussions
<sabdfl> mdz, i think we could include delegates in private issues explicitly by cc
<sabdfl> for example, jono or dholbach or jorge
<sabdfl> or randa
<sabdfl> where appropriate
<cjwatson> on general principles we have usually said that anything in Ubuntu that can be public should be public, so that seems a reasonable statement to me
<sabdfl> i think the majority of TB discussions could be public, which lends support to the idea that tb@ be public
<cjwatson> by comparison we encourage discussion to move from #distro (irc.canonical.com) to #ubuntu-devel
<mdz> I'm happy for it to stay private so long as we only use it for discussions which ought to be private, and nothing else
<mdz> e.g. if someone emails technical-board@ and raises a technical concern, we must redirect that to ubuntu-devel@
<sabdfl> fine by me
<mdz> this is easy to forget to do, etc., but if we agree we can try to make the best of it
<mdz> ok to move on?
<mdz> [TOPIC] MOTU Council nominations (dholbach)
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU Council nominations (dholbach)
<mdz> dholbach: I put your name on this but just noticed it was persia who emailed t-b@
<sabdfl> i propose we nominate dholbach, and two non-canonical candidates
<Keybuk> this is a re-nomination of dholbach, right?
<mdz> dholbach: can you represent MC here?
<sabdfl> yes
<dholbach> mdz: technically... I'm not on the MC right now :)
<sabdfl> dholbach has expired
<dholbach> soren, nixternal, persia: here? :)
<sabdfl> (from the MC ;-))
<soren> hm?
<dholbach> I think it's a good idea to have more members on the MC
<Keybuk> who are the proposed other nominees?
<mdz> Keybuk: I don't think that's been publicly discussed, it's on t-b@ though
<mdz> Subject: MOTU Council list of nominees for MOTU Council Election
<Keybuk> are we not discussing them now?
<Keybuk> I understood this agenda item to be "nominate people to the MOTU Council"
<mdz> I just want to move the process forward; what's the next step?
<mdz> is there an agreed process for how council nominations work?
<mdz> (apart from TB and CC)?
<Keybuk> there seems to be two obvious choices
<Keybuk> the TB decides
<Keybuk> the Developers decide
<Keybuk> the latter seems more desirable to me
<mdz> for the TB, it is "Appointments to the board are made by Mark Shuttleworth subject to confirmation by a vote amongst the maintainers"
<dholbach> there's https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncil/Delegation and we made use of it in the past
<mdz> dholbach: ah, that's useful, thanks
<mdz> the CC has done a lot more official delegation than we have
<sabdfl> i thought we were following https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncil/Delegation
<mdz>     *
<mdz>       The CC (and TB) will determine a shortlist of candidates and set up Launchpad polls accordingly so team members can vote.
<mdz>     * The polls might take the form of confirmation votes or of a race between more candidates than the available seats on the Team Council.
<sabdfl> and were already at the point of having proposed nominees, from the MC
<sabdfl> i was suggesting that the TB put up three candidates for confirmation vote
<mdz> so the questions are:
<mdz> 1. how many slots do we need to fill?
<mdz> 2. who are the nominees?
<Keybuk> sabdfl: three candidates for how many seats?
<sabdfl> three for three, confirmation not a race
<sabdfl> dholbach asked that we have an odd number of seats
<mdz> there is only one seat opening up, but it's been suggested that the council should be expanded
<sabdfl> for quorum / voting reasons
<mdz> I'm OK with three seats. keybuk? cjwatson?
<Keybuk> +1
<mdz> that's replacing the one which expired, and adding two
<cjwatson> that would result in an even number of seats
<cjwatson> oh, no it wouldn't
<sabdfl> MC has been well organised, growing it gives an opportunity to develop more leadership talent
<cjwatson> +1
<mdz> sabdfl: I have some open questions about how the role of MC will change with ArchiveReorganisation
<sabdfl> me too
<cjwatson> so does CommunityCouncil/Delegation mean that this needs to be run past the CC too?
<sabdfl> no
<mdz> agreed, no
<mdz> ok, so we're agreed on 3 seats
<sabdfl> CC has already delegated this to TB, it's fine to redelegate
<sabdfl> (wearing my CC hat)
<Keybuk> did CC delegate this?
<Keybuk> I thought this was a TB duty that the TB decided to delegate all on its own ;)
<Keybuk> the CC delegates membership assignment to the TB
<Keybuk> but that's orthogonal
<dholbach> I was under the impression that because of the power to grant ubuntumembers membership the MC would report to CC and TB?
<sabdfl> Keybuk: reference appointment process to the TB, i guess
 * Keybuk makes delegation pancakes
<sabdfl> nevertheless, i can say this is up to the TB
<sabdfl> we can do it however the TB wants
<dholbach> in any case there were no objections raised in the CC when the topic was brought up
<sabdfl> this is entirely about how the ubuntu development team picks and organises itself
<mdz> dholbach: right, so I think we're free to proceed
<dholbach> I'd think so :)
<mdz> so we have a list of suggestions from the MC itself, and need to decide on nominees
<mdz> I'm happy with the suggestions sabdfl made on t-b@
<sabdfl> my recommendation to exlcude one candidate is based purely on the fact that he now works for canonical
<sabdfl> and we want to broaden representation outside canonical
<mdz> in <4993CCBA.5000202@ubuntu.com>
<sabdfl> that may be unfair on the individual
<sabdfl> i'm loosely attached to the idea
<Keybuk> mdz: I agree, +1 on sabdfl's proposed list
<mdz> cjwatson: ?
<sabdfl> dholbach of course works for canonical, but i feel he's been *fantastic* in this role
<dholbach> sabdfl: thanks a lot for the flowers
<sabdfl> and so it's worthwhile to me to maintain the continuity, since dholbach nominated himself and says he enjoys it
<cjwatson> I don't have any problem with the specific three people proposed
<cjwatson> I don't know Nathan very well myself
<mdz> I'm supportive of Canonical participating in the council, but agree we should aim to keep the ratio low
<sabdfl> a run-off would be a more interesting poll
<cjwatson> but he seems to have been effective in the limited interactions I've had with him
<mdz> will the confirmation vote be among MOTU or all developers?
<mdz> I suggest all developers
<sabdfl> i'm easy
<dholbach> me too
<ScottK> All developers are MOTU.
<cjwatson> ... I just made the MOTU team include ubuntu-core-dev ;-)
<cjwatson> (as discussed on ubuntu-devel@)
<sabdfl> well that solves that
<mdz> ok
<mdz> that sounds like consensus on the three nominees
<mdz> they are: Daniel Holbach, Nathan Handler, and Jonathan Davies
<mdz> sabdfl: will you set up the polls?
<sabdfl> sure
<mdz> [ACTION] sabdfl to set up Launchpad polls for MC nominee confirmations
<MootBot> ACTION received:  sabdfl to set up Launchpad polls for MC nominee confirmations
<mdz> [TOPIC] SRU guidelines for Landscape (robbiew)
<MootBot> New Topic:  SRU guidelines for Landscape (robbiew)
<cjwatson> so a poll of all developers will now include per-package uploaders (of whom the only current example is Stefan Bader)
<cjwatson> just for the record
<mdz> robbiew: are you here?
<sabdfl> cjwatson: ~ubuntu-dev right?
<cjwatson> assuming you use ~ubuntu-dev
<robbiew> mdz: yes
<robbiew> I placed the link to the LandscapeSRU process in the agenda.
<mdz> so the decision at hand is whether to confirm an exception to the SRU process based on that document
<robbiew> From what I understand, sometimes the Landscape client code must be updated to take advantage of improvements/updates to the Landscape server...and this is their reasoning for the need to be part of an SRU.
<mdz> I understand from robbiew that the SRU team is OK with it and would like for the TB to make the final decision, is that correct?
<ScottK> We have a lot of packages in the archive for which that is true.
<cjwatson> we've been back-and-forwarding on this in ~ubuntu-sru for months
<mdz> robbiew: right, that was the reason for asking
<cjwatson> and feel we have finally reached agreement, after a lot of extra commitments made by the Landscape team
<mdz> we asked that they provide an explanation of what processes they will follow in order to ensure their updates are free of  regressions
<mdz> which is the purpose of the SRU process
<cjwatson> I think those commitments could serve as a template for other projects, at least in principle
<robbiew> +1
<cjwatson> I absolutely do not want to make an exception for Landscape just because it's Landscape
<mdz> cjwatson: agreed, though I also don't want to block it on generalizing the policy
<cjwatson> I want it to be generalisable, not necessarily generalised
<mdz> I'd like to propose we consider an exception for Landscape based on what has been provided, and then use that as a precedent when this comes up next
<cjwatson> so the reasons why I think Landscape is suitable, given the negotiations to date, are:
<mdz> if another project can meet the standard we set, then we should consider that as well
<cjwatson>  * it has an extensive test suite (yes, like other packages in the archive)
<cjwatson>  * its developers have committed to doing specific QA on a variety of upgrade and fresh-install combinations
<cjwatson>  * it has very limited interactions with the rest of Ubuntu, that are straightforward to enumerate so that we can have a clear idea of regression potential
<cjwatson>  * those interactions have been specifically called out in the mandatory QA process that each upgrade must go through
<sabdfl> we must surely have a couple of other upstreams that meet any reasonable such standard
<sabdfl> i would like to go out with a document that references more than just landscape
<cjwatson>  * its developers have agreed to work within the Ubuntu update process
<mdz> impact on non-Landscape users is pretty tightly constrained, and I think Landscape should be able to take responsibility for the impact on their own users
<mdz> sabdfl: I fear that will delay what has already been a very drawn out process
<ScottK> Landscape client is included by default on Server installs.
<cjwatson> sabdfl: we already have a couple of other examples where we do micro-updates; I agree with mdz that I'd like to avoid blocking on having a general policy as long as we're broadly agreed that the principles are general
<sabdfl> ok
<cjwatson> ScottK: yes, this is true, and this is part of why it has taken so long to come to an agreement
<mdz> this was originally raised by the Landscape developers in https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/landscape-client/+bug/306360
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 306360 in landscape-client "Update landscape-client package to 1.0.25" [Undecided,In progress]
<cjwatson> ScottK: however, it has rather limited actual functions for users who don't sign up for server access, which are called out in LandscapeUpdates (basically, update-motd)
<mdz> which was filed 2008-12-08
<cjwatson> this has been discussed for a lot longer than that
<mdz> cjwatson: true
<cjwatson> although, yes, I think that was probably the first public mention
<ScottK> Which is fine, just that the potential impacts involve essentially all server installs.
<ScottK> even if the risk is low
<sabdfl> could we at least invite upstreams of other projects that want this to approach the TB?
<mdz> ScottK: so we want assurance that the potential impact is limited, and that the testing conducted is sufficient to provide the level of assurance we expect for stable updates
<ScottK> Yes.
<cjwatson> ScottK: yes. It does concern me, but less than it might due to it being fairly self-contained
<mdz> sabdfl: I suggest that we decide for Landscape initially, with a sufficiently detailed rationale that it can be generalized in the future
<cjwatson> which is why the QA process suggested is a lot more stringent, and will be a lot more time-consuming for the Landscape team frankly, than most other SRU work
<mdz> rather than require a general policy in order to decide on Landscape
<mdz> we have made exceptions for several other packages already without a general policy
<cjwatson> sabdfl: I'm concerned about inviting upstreams in general
<cjwatson> sabdfl: every upstream, without exception to my knowledge, wants distributions to ship the newest available version
<mdz> (kernel, app-install-data-commercial, tzdata, hal-info and mobile-broadband-provider-info, FYI)
<cjwatson> sabdfl: I think we only have bandwidth to do this for limited high-quality high-value cases)
<cjwatson> s/)$//
<sabdfl> i think a landscape-only policy that doesn't convey our openness to doing this more generally would be send the wrong message and be poorly received
<sabdfl> we are definitely *open* to doing this more generally, so we can say that
<sabdfl> and i agree with cjwatson on bandwidth
<cjwatson> yes, I think there's middle ground between "we're open to discussions" and "please come and bang down our door"
<sabdfl> ok
<cjwatson> so stepping back just a moment, if I have time
<mdz> we have 10 minutes
<cjwatson> kernel, hal-info, mobile-broadband-provider-info come under general category of hardware support (often due to new hardware being introduced)
<cjwatson> app-install-data-commercial comes under the general category of enabling something outside the primary archive
<cjwatson> tzdata comes under the general category of coping with external events that we can't ignore
<cjwatson> (i.e. legislative environment)
<cjwatson> landscape is approximately under the same category as app-install-data-commercial, to me
<cjwatson> and in general, all of these could be grouped as "updates necessary to deal with changes outside the Ubuntu archive"
<cjwatson> external events that we can't necessarily encapsulate in one nice stable release
<mdz> it's similar to the various packages (mostly in universe) which are using web APIs or screen-scraping, and occasionally get broken by server-side changes
<cjwatson> MSN, ICQ come to mind too
<mdz> cjwatson: right
<cjwatson> where everything is internal to the operating system (in the wide sense) that we release, I don't think that we should generally contemplate updates of this nature
<sabdfl> anything which talks to unversioned web api's is going to get this problem
<mdz> to try to move things ahead, it sounds like the main question is the extent to which this decision should be specific to Landscape vs. setting a general policy
<sabdfl> liblaunchpad.py
<mdz> are there any other concerns with the proposal?
<mdz> we'll need to take this offline it looks like
<Keybuk> I don't have any particular concerns
<mdz> but I'd like to do so with a clear agenda so we can drive to a decision
<cjwatson> ScottK raised a QA concern which is basically similar to what the SRU team raised when approached with this
<sabdfl> i'm +1 on an a policy for landscape that outlines the criteria we used to make the decision and includes the sentence ("the TB will consider additional applications in due course following similar criteria")
<sabdfl> or thereabouts
<cjwatson> I'm happy to elaborate on that if requested, perhaps by mail
<mdz> we've entrusted the SRU team to assess the QA aspect and will review that ourselves as well based on the document
<cjwatson> but the body responsible for stable QA has now signed off
<mdz> based on sabdfl's input, I think this requires more than a simple vote
<mdz> we'll need to write up a formal decision with rationale which can be referred back to as precedent
<mdz> cjwatson: new guy, want to take the action for that? ;-)
<robbiew> ouch
<cjwatson> yeah, I can do that
<mdz> thank you
<mdz> [ACTION] cjwatson to write up decision which we can then vote on
<MootBot> ACTION received:  cjwatson to write up decision which we can then vote on
<cjwatson> (or try, anyway)
<mdz> [TOPIC] Upload permission for Romain Francoise for 'emacs-snapshot'
<MootBot> New Topic:  Upload permission for Romain Francoise for 'emacs-snapshot'
<mdz> I don't have any news here, but this remains open
<mdz> Jono has been in touch with Romain
<sabdfl> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers/PerPackageUploaders
<sabdfl> do we have anything in writing to support him against those criteria?
<dholbach> sabdfl: I did not roll it into UbuntuDevelopers yet - do you think we can make the "process" section a bit more explicit?
<sabdfl> dholbach: sure
<mdz> he is @gnu.org and @debian.org
<Keybuk> sabdfl: my objection remains a simple one
<dholbach> it'd be nice if they'd just use https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/DeveloperApplicationTemplate as normal and either let MC or the TB (you decide) know about it
<Keybuk> Romain has only ever had one sponsored upload to Ubuntu
<mdz> sabdfl: for my part, the simple (but unfortunate) answer is "I don't know"
<sabdfl> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/emacs-snapshot
<ttx> o/
<ttx> ^ Koon
<cjwatson> ttx: sorry, TB meeting still underway
<mdz> we have to wrap up and clear the channel for the next meeting
<cjwatson> mdke's application was dealt with by mail
<mdz> I'm behind on email, haven't even read it
<mdz> but if the three of you agree I'm fine
<cjwatson> Mark and I +1ed, I actioned
<dholbach> mdz, sabdfl: shall I send you a proposal for the clarification of the per-package-uploader process by mail?
<cjwatson> oh, which reminds me, better add mdke to ~ubuntu-dev then
<mdz> codecs in ffmpeg, jono is working on
<mdz> archive reorg governance I'm not sure of the status
<mdz> is it blocked on the technical proposal?
<sabdfl> implementation of
<cjwatson> still on me to rework proposal following Berlin I think
<cjwatson> (sorry)
<mdz> sabdfl: I think we can decide the governance model before it's implemented, and should do so to avoid a chaotic transition
<mdz> sounds like it's blocked on Colin
<mdz> we need to wrap, I'll update the agenda
<cjwatson> Daniel asked me for a call this week, will probably manage that a bit later
<sabdfl> soyuz team is just laying the foundations, we can use them as we wish
<mdz> [ACTION] cjwatson to rework archive reorg proposal to unblock governance work
<MootBot> ACTION received:  cjwatson to rework archive reorg proposal to unblock governance work
<mdz> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:03.
<mdz> ttx: all yours
<ivoks> \o/
<zul> heylo
<ttx> mdz: sorry for interrupting :)
<mdz> ttx: no worries
 * sommer is sortof here :)
<ScottK> o/
<dendrobates> o/
<zul> \0
<ttx> zul: "mine is bigger" ?
<zul> ttx: yes it is
<nealmcb> o/
<ttx> mathiaz isn't available so I'll try to replace him
 * ttx <-- the hacker formerly known as koon
<ttx> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:07. The chair is ttx.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<ttx> Today's agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<ttx> Last week minutes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20090217
<ttx> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
 * ttx frantically reads up last meeting minutes
<ttx> Postfix and Dovecot integration: ivoks to create a wiki page for ideas about improving the mail server task post-jaunty
<ivoks> here
<ttx> ivoks: ?
<ivoks> well, i've set up a wiki
<ivoks> small, but a start
<ivoks> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/MailServer
<ivoks> which is for karmic, so no much point in discussing now
<soren> ivoks: cjwatson had concerns about the approach used in the dovecot/postfix integration. Were they adressed?
<ivoks> soren: when? 2 weeks ago?
<soren> ivoks: Think so, yes.
<ivoks> soren: we've solved the whole thing according to his advice
<dendrobates> we can address them at UDS, if not.
<ivoks> unless there are some new
<ivoks> which i'm unaware of :)
<ttx> sounds good
<soren> ivoks: No, nothing new.
<ivoks> ok
<ttx> Power management: kirkland to blog about using suspend/resume for servers.
<dendrobates> ttx: he is not here, but is blocked on me.
<soren> I was just checking. I haven't had a time to review it myself.
<soren> ivoks: ^
<dendrobates> I will give him approval as soon as I manage to talk to him.
<ttx> ok.
<ttx> [TOPIC] Roadmap review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Roadmap review
<ivoks> soren: test it, should be fully functional and i don't think there'll be anything else for jaunty
<dendrobates> or if he reads these minutes, go ahead.
<ttx> Anyone has a status report on part of the roadmap that would be assigned to himself ?
<sommer> the doc.u.c site is updated and ready for reviews :)
<ScottK> vorian has been doing some good work on the libdb consolidation.
<ttx> The roadmap page looks a little... oudated
<vorian> yes, slight snag with libdb4.4 though
<ttx> outdated, even.
<vorian> ldiskfsprogs seems to only want to build/work with libdb4.4
<ttx> ok. Soren, want to do an update on the virtualization front ?
<soren> I could. :)
<soren> So, since we last saw each other, Eucalyptus entered the archive.
<soren> This gives us a free implementation of EC2 and S3 that you can deploy on your own infrastructure.
<soren> This is convenient for testing things before pushing them to the real EC2 or if you want to offer computing ressources internal in your organisation, but policies forbids putting data or code on something as public as EC2.
<soren> Alpha testers are very welcome.
<sommer> soren: what's need to test?
<ttx> soren: is there any start page / instructions for first-time testers ?
<soren> ttx: No, not yet. There's still some things that needs fixing before it's ready for mass testing.
<ivoks> i might test that :)
<soren> Once they're sorted out, I'll post a call for testing.
<ttx> ok.
<ivoks> soren: if i got you right, one can't offer S3 like service
<ivoks> soren: but can use it inside it's own web project?
<ivoks> s/it's/its/
<soren> ivoks: Yes, you can offer this to other people as well.
<ivoks> oh
<ttx> soren: anything else ?
<soren> No, I'm good.
<ttx> ok. We are missing a lot of people, anyone else has a roadmap item he wants to give an update on, now that feature freeze is in effect ?
<ScottK> I'll just toss out that clamav 0.95 is imminent.
<ScottK> I expect an RC this week or next.
<ScottK> It's known to break all the libclamav rdepends.
<sommer> the last thing for the serverguide is the cloud stuff, can you ping me when it's ready to test soren?
<ttx> ScottK: i suppose it was accepted as a FFe ?
<ScottK> If we can get the rdepends working, I'm sure it will be.
<ScottK> We'd really rather not release with an obsolete clamav.
<soren> sommer: Yes, I will.
<ttx> I agree with that.
<sommer> soren: awesome, thanks :)
<ivoks> +1 for clamav
<ttx> ok, then lets' move on to:
<ttx> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<ivoks> i have one thing...
<ttx> Good.
<ivoks> there are some users that complaing on our effort on supporting LTS
<ttx> ivoks: as in: not SRUing enough ?
 * kirkland is here now
<ivoks> if we could give more love to LTS somehow, that would be great
<ivoks> ttx: well, they do have a point with on thing
<ttx> most complains I've seen are for backports
<ScottK> As in wanting more?
<ivoks> if we fix a bug in lts+ release, we don't backport that fix
<ivoks> and we just mark bug as fixed
<ivoks> while, in LTS it's not
<ttx> ScottK: as in "please ship that new version, it's so good the LTS needs it"
<ScottK> Well we do have backports for this.
<ivoks> no, i'm against new versions
<ttx> ScottK: that's my usual answer, but they usually don't like it.
<ivoks> i'm for fixing bug in current and lts release, not just declaring it fixed since it is fixed in, for example, intrepid or jaunty
<zul> yes well if thats the case then the backports need more testing that backports dont break things
<ScottK> Which is why backports is great.  You don't have to have them.
<ScottK> zul: backports very rarely break things.
<dendrobates> and we don't have to include them in the point releases.
<ScottK> Yes.
<ivoks> (fwiw, i didn't talk about backports)
<ScottK> OK
<ttx> ivoks: so your point is that we lose sight of valid SRU bugs because their development-release task is Fix Released ?
<ivoks> ttx: correct
<ScottK> If any of you are MOTU and interested in getting involved in the backports process, we need more people to review backports requests.  Please contact me.
<ivoks> i'm just saying, maybe we should pay more attention on these things
<ttx> We could have a review of fixed bugs and decide if they make likely/badly-wanted/not wanted candidates for the SRU process
<sommer> ivoks: is there a list of such bugs?  I can probably help with them
<ivoks> or ask users what they think about LTS releases?
<sommer> err help test anyway
<ScottK> ivoks: Users generally don't find it OK to leave any bugs unfixed.
<ivoks> sommer: i don't have a list, these were complaints on #ubuntu-server 2 days ago
<ivoks> sommer: from couple of users
<sommer> ivoks: okay, I may have missed them, I'll try and find them
<ttx> I agree we tend to lose sight of the fixed-in-development-release bugs. And the nomination process doesn't really help.
<ivoks> sommer: check sunday
<ttx> any suggestion on a process we could use to better track that ?
<sommer> could we add tags like hardy-needed, intrepid-needed, etc then remove them when the fix is committed?
<ttx> like systematically nominating for relevant releases, and have a session where we look at them and accept/deny them ?
<sommer> not sure if that fits, but just a suggestion
<ttx> sommer: theorically that's what nominations are for
<sommer> ttx: yep, that's better than :)
<ivoks> right, nominations should be fine for that
<ivoks> if bug is reported in LTS, then fix it in LTS and development-release
<ivoks> not just development-release
<ivoks> i'm just acting on users feedback :)
 * ttx misses the LP-foo required to not losing sight of fixed-in-development-release bugs. Any way to get a list of "nominated for hardy" bugs ?
<soren> ttx: Yes. Hang on.
<ttx> hm.
<ttx> we can't really nominate all relevant bugs and then jave a session of acceptance/denial
<ttx> s/jave/have/
<soren> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+nominations I think.
<ttx> since for people with superpowers, nominating also does accept the nomination.
<soren> s/edge// if you're not cool enough for that.
<ttx> :P
<dendrobates> I can approve nonimations.
<soren> It seems I can, too.
<ivoks> i can too :)
<dendrobates> soren: really?
<dendrobates> hmm.
<ivoks> wow, i have superpowers!
<ttx> dendrobates: the problem is not really approving. Suppose a core-dev wants to say "this one affects hardy" but not really say "this is a good SRU candidate".
<dendrobates> I thought it was restircted to drivers.
<ivoks> :)
<soren> dendrobates: That page I just linked to shows radio buttons that I can click on. I haven't tried it, but LP usually only shows you these things if you can actually change thenm.
<ttx> if the core-dev nominates, it will be automatically accepted, no ?
<soren> dendrobates: ubuntu-core-dev is listed as driver as well.
<soren> dendrobates: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy
<dendrobates> ahh, I think that is new.
<ttx> so you can't really say "affects hardy" and let the bug-reviewing department decide on SRU potential
<soren> I do, too.
<ttx> ivoks: that's a good point, I propose you add it as a proper agenda item for next week session.
<ivoks> ok
<ttx> and we can brainstorm during the week.
<soren> ivoks: I'm curious why you can, though. You're not core-dev, are you?
<ivoks> soren: i'm not
<ttx> We could have some QA people joining us
<soren> ivoks: *shrug*
<ivoks> ttx: imho, we should reach to our users and ask them what they want; push brainstorm.u.c a bit more
<ivoks> that's the easiest and best way to world domination :)
<dendrobates> ivoks: but only if we are going to take the suggestions seriously.
<ivoks> dendrobates: right
<ttx> ACTION: ivoks to add to next week agenda an item about better SRU bugtracking
<ttx> [ACTION] ivoks to add to next week agenda an item about better SRU bugtracking
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ivoks to add to next week agenda an item about better SRU bugtracking
<ttx> bah bot
<ScottK> I'm somewhat reluctant to do this, but I'm going to bring up Bug 268447 - I think it makes a poor initial impression for new Ubuntu Server users.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 268447 in landscape-client "MOTD should not point to https://landscape.canonical.com if you are not a customer" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/268447
<ScottK> I'm not arguing what's there isn't allowable, just I don't think it's a good idea for Ubuntu.
<ttx> ivoks: if you'er MOTU you can apparently accept nominations for universe packages.
<ivoks> ttx: right
<ivoks> ScottK: i understand you, and from community point of view, that might not be best thing to pop onto new users; but i personaly don't have anything against that line :|
<ttx> ScottK: if it's not a bug, then that should be raised in more "discussion" channels, I guess
 * ScottK didn't file it as a bug.
<ttx> ScottK: I did ;)
<ScottK> This would be doing that (raising it in discussion channels).
<nealmcb> I agree with ScottK.
<ScottK> Just consider if we want every package that writes to stdout to include links to proprietary add-ons?
<ScottK> I'm pretty sure we don't, but as long as that's there, it's very hard to argue against it.
<ivoks> like firefox on BBC?
<ivoks> you have a link to launchpad inside every app on desktop
 * ScottK gets his BBC news via email, so dunno.
<ScottK> But Launchpad is used by Ubuntu for stuff.
<ScottK> Landscape is a seprate product.
<ScottK> At least for me the only Launchpad stuff I find in apps is about filing bugs.
<dendrobates> This is outside of our realm of control.  But your opinion will be noted and report up.
<nealmcb> What would be more appropraite for the MOTD would be a link to server documentation either on the web or via a local help application - I forget where that discussion ended up
<dendrobates> We did our best to make it as innocous as possible, but I understand your concern.
<ScottK> dendrobates: If it's in an Ubuntu Server package, I disagree.
<ScottK> It is exactly in our realm of control.
<ivoks> would 'Find out how to manager your server on http://www.ubuntu.com/manager' be better?
<ivoks> and from there, offer canonical and 'community' solutions?
<ScottK> Yes, I think it would if it offered both.
<ivoks> but, we don't have community way of doing this :(
<nealmcb> and launchpad doesn't cost money and will be open source within 6 months
<dendrobates> ivoks: I agree, I will try and push that. We should discuss it briefly at UDS.
<ivoks> s/manager/manage/ lol
<ivoks> dendrobates: web site could provde more information about landscape, so should be even better for canonical
<ttx> ok, let's wrap up
<ScottK> If you scroll up to the tech board meeting just before us sabdfl made it clear when discussing Landscape that he didn't want it to get special priviledges because it was Landscape (and a Canonical product), but that it might be an example of more general cases.
<ScottK> dendrobates: I'd like to see this resovled before release, so UDS is a bit late.
 * ScottK stops
<nealmcb> ivoks: good idea - it could combine my "help" idea and the more active management that motd readers might want
<ttx> it's a complex subject for an open discussion item, I guess
<ttx> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time
<ttx> next week, same time, same place ?
<ivoks> +1
<ttx> hopefully mathiaz won't lose network connection 5 minutes before the meeting starts.
<ttx> and the meeting will look better prepared :)
<ivoks> escuses :)
<ivoks> excuses
<ttx> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:00.
<apw> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:01. The chair is apw.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<apw> This is the weekly kernel team meeting
 * smb_tp waves
 * apw looks important on his chair
 * cking is here
<apw> we seem to be pretty light on people generally, so probabally this will be a short one
<apw> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels
<smb_tp> Yeah
<apw> how is Intrepid?
<smb_tp> Also not much new. I am klicking Hardy and Intrepid proposed through
<apw> kicking?  as in kicking the tyres of ?
<smb_tp> klicking a mixture between kicking and ... licking...
<apw> nnngggg
<apw> not a pleasant picture
<apw> when are we likely to promote our -proposed candiated?
<smb_tp> The Intrepid proposed is in the accept queue. I have to get it further
<apw> anything else security related?
<apw> rtg reported earlier that the LPIA Jaunty tree was now merged into our main tree
<smb_tp> It will take some time. The buildds are just finishing off some packages for hardy. After thatI have to push linux-meta and after that maybe two to three weeks there
<apw> and that the old trees are now archived
<smb_tp> Nothing security related for now but this is comming soon
<jro> Hi, I am worried about the old version of aufs under kernel/ubuntu/ dir. It may contain problems.
<apw> jro can we hold that thought for a bit
<jro> sure
<apw> which release are you talking there?
<apw> jro, ?
<jro> jaunty
<apw> anything else for older kernels?
<smb_tp> Nothing. next week hopefully more
<apw> [TOPIC] Jaunty Status
<MootBot> New Topic:  Jaunty Status
<jro> i guess all of them contain old aufs version
<apw> ok ... jaunty is now feature frozen, so our tree is now in SRU mode
<apw> remember you need more acks to get things in from here on in
<cking> how many is "more"?
<cking> 2, 3?
<apw> i beleieve you need two acks other than yourself for SRU level stuff
<amitk> two devs
<smb_tp> more than 0?
<apw> but we should confirm that with rtg and get him to mail that out
<cking> good idea
<apw> [ACTION] apw to confirm the ack requirements for jaunty
<MootBot> ACTION received:  apw to confirm the ack requirements for jaunty
<smb_tp> Generally in maintenance at least one other beside yourself.
<apw> we also have Jaunty ALPHA-5 due the 26th (thursday)
<apw> anything pending for that, that is not going to make it?
<amitk> I have config changes for ixp4xx
<apw> is that the changes to get the kernel smaller?  how scarey are they?
<amitk> is there going to be another upload? rtg mentioned one yesterday.
<amitk> yes, and scarey is relative since currently the device OOMs without the changes
<apw> amitk, i would think if there was going to be an uplaod it would be today, i did
<amitk> did what?
<apw> think that the kernel was basically there, we would need to take action
<apw> to get another one if its needed
<apw> (typing indicators would be handy in this meeting)
<amitk> ok
<apw> amitk, can they wait till after the alpha or do we need to jump up and down
<apw> smb_tp, presumably you could push the requisite buttons if we need to
<amitk> mobile team really wants it for A5
<apw> so we need to approach the release team and find out if its even possible at this stage
<smb_tp> apw, I probably should be able
<apw> [ACTION] amitk to find out if we can slip in another kernel with arm changes
<MootBot> ACTION received:  amitk to find out if we can slip in another kernel with arm changes
<amitk> ack
<apw> the deadline is almost cirtainly basically now
<apw> ok jro, aufs?  whats up with that?
<amitk> yes, this final kernel test should tell us if it all works now
<apw> amitk, cool
<jro> old aufs version is known to have some problems
<jro> can ubuntu kernel be ok with them?
<apw> what are the nature of those problems.  it is unlikely we can get a new version into alpha-5
<apw> but after that we could consider it.  we would need a patch against jaunty (i guess) and some
<apw> information on what is broken, so we can make an informed decision
<amitk> jro: is there a patch available against the version in ubuntu?
<apw> jro would you be able to summarise the issues in an email to the kernel-team list perhaps?
<jro> i will try developing a patch and send another mail, ok?
<apw> and link us to any patches you think are applicable there
<apw> jro sounds excellent
<amitk> jro: thanks
<apw> [ACTION] jro to summarise aufs issues and possible patches
<MootBot> ACTION received:  jro to summarise aufs issues and possible patches
<jro> ack
<apw> anything else Jaunty?
<apw> TOPIC] Suspend/Resume
<apw> [TOPIC] Suspend/Resume
<MootBot> New Topic:  Suspend/Resume
<apw> ok we have done some new work on the suspend resume scirpting for server use
<apw> ogasawara, i assume we will be pushing out a request for testing with Alpha-5
<ogasawara> apw: yup, was just thinking that
<apw> ogasawara, will get with you on/before thursday as there may be some instruction changes
<ogasawara> apw: ok, sounds good
<apw> perhaps to get people to try on servers for instance, kirkland may have some input there
<ogasawara> apw: we should definitely make a note of it so people are at least aware
<apw> on the incoming bugs side, we are seeing about 7 bugs a day reported by apport nwo
<apw> seems pretty steady at the moment.  still no real feel for any patterns in them
 * kirkland reads some scrollback
<apw> ogasawara, ack
<cking> apw: any bugs related to the extended suspend/resume bugs?
<cking> s/bugs?/tests?/
<IntuitiveNipple> Bug #331415 could bite us; I'm trying to analyse which devices/drivers are affected
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 331415 in linux "request_firmware() fails on resume from suspend" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/331415
<kirkland> apw: cool, okay, yeah, so i have a blog entry drafted, with instructions and a call for testing
<apw> [ACTION] apw ogasawara to revisit suspend/resume testing instructions
<kirkland> apw: i'll publish that today
<MootBot> ACTION received:  apw ogasawara to revisit suspend/resume testing instructions
<apw> kirkland, ok cool
<kirkland> apw:  it was embargoed on review of my manager ;-)
<kirkland> apw: dendrobates approved it earlier this morning for publication
<apw> cking, only seen one from extended testing and that was a first pass failure
<ogasawara> IntuitiveNipple: I can help you scan through bug reports
<apw> ok ... cool
<apw> IntuitiveNipple, that souds like it needs investigating for sure
<apw> let us know if you need any help on the kernel channels
<IntuitiveNipple> ogasawara: Thanks. If it turns out to be responsible for resume delays/apparent failures, it looks like it could be a hard one to patch.
<apw> yeah a tricky one if we are still in the fridge
<apw> anything else suspend/resume?
<IntuitiveNipple> I think the main thing is, when reviewing bugs for suspend/resume have it in mind, because it isn't obvious when someone reports "failed to resume" because they rebooted before the 60 second time-out.
<apw> IntuitiveNipple, fair point
<apw> [TOPIC] Vanilla Kernel Builds
<MootBot> New Topic:  Vanilla Kernel Builds
<apw> ok ... on the mainline builds these are now progressing nearly automatically
<amitk> apw: any statistics on the uptake?
<apw> hopefully by next week cron will be taking the strain and we will be off the hook
<apw> nothing numerical.  i habe been thanked for them by a number of people who are
<apw> using them for all sorts of unexpected things
<IntuitiveNipple> They're coming out faster than I have chance to test them:)
<apw> so i think generally they are a good thing.  now that they only take space and no people time
<apw> still not had any time to try and PPA them, not a priority at this time
<amitk> apw: I think we should mention this in some debian channels too
<apw> yeah thats a good point.  i wonder if they would install on any debian based system.  presumably yes
<ogasawara> apw: if and when they're ready for wider consumption, the community has offered to help advertise
<ogasawara> s/community/community team/
<apw> ogasawara, i think we are at the point where they are as good as they are going to get
<apw> so we should be considering an annoucnement.  are you in the frame for that :)
<ogasawara> apw: ok cool.  I'll write up a wiki too then.
<apw> there are some wiki pages on it already
<apw> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelMainlineBuilds
<apw> is a good starting point on consumption of the builds
<ogasawara> apw: even better then.  I'll whip up an announcement.
<apw> [ACTION] ogasawara to prepare annoucement for mainline builds
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ogasawara to prepare annoucement for mainline builds
<apw> ...
<apw> any other projects anyone needs to report on?
<apw> [TOPIC] ARM Tree
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Tree
<apw> amitk, anything other than the arm config changes you want in?
<amitk> not for A5
<apw> cool
<apw> [TOPIC] LPIA Tree
<MootBot> New Topic:  LPIA Tree
<apw> the only thing i know of here is that the Jaunty tree is now officially merged
<apw> sconklin, anything from you?
<sconklin> not at the moment
<apw> cool
<sconklin> I'm looking at LPIA again
<apw> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs
<apw> ogasawara, any horrors for us to run away from?
<ogasawara> apw: nothing critical.  IntuitiveNipple already mentioned bug 331415
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 331415 in linux "request_firmware() fails on resume from suspend" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/331415
<ogasawara> there's another regression, bug 327431
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 327431 in linux "iwl3945 cannot connect to hidden ssid WPA enterprise with Hardy 2.6.24-23 - Regression" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/327431
<apw> smb_tp, ^
<IntuitiveNipple> I was about to mention that one, as well
<ogasawara> I'm just finishing up adding a regressions section to the bug list
<smb_tp> apw, Not looked at this I think
<apw> they both on our critical list
<apw> ogasawara, thanks, we will find someone to look at those two then
<smb_tp> apw, We might need to walk over the critical list and see whether we need to spit up between the two of us
<apw> smb_tp, yeah lets get together after and review things, as reviewing the new ones is working well but the old ones are "in the past"
<apw> [ACTION] smb_tp apw to review the critical bugs
<MootBot> ACTION received:  smb_tp apw to review the critical bugs
<ogasawara> smb_tp, apw:  some might be a bit stale (ie not tested with jaunty yet) so I'll sweep through and triage
<IntuitiveNipple> I am in the process of setting up a test-bench here to review the WPA Enterprise issues. There have been several around the same basic scenario.
<apw> IntuitiveNipple, sounds good.  keep us informed :)
<apw> ogasawara, sounds like a plan, thanks
<apw> [TOPIC] Open discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open discussion
<apw> anything else?
<IntuitiveNipple> I have a couple of things to mention, when everyone else is done :)
<apw> it sounds pretty quiet out there, so go ahead
<apw> IntuitiveNipple, ?
<IntuitiveNipple> OK. quick backgrounder. I've been messing with kernel/ACPI for a while. Emailed Pete last week saying I'd like to get more involved in kernel-team proper. He thought I was after a job. Not. However, I want to spend full-time working on kernel. So, if there are issues that need looking at, let me know.
<IntuitiveNipple> Second: ...
<IntuitiveNipple> ... I've been working on a new PCI IOMEM allocation scheme for mainline, which will go to Jesse Barne's PCI tree soonish. After Jaunty is out, I'd welcome some local review before it goes to linux-pci
<IntuitiveNipple> It'll make Linux's IOMEM allocation on a par with Windows
<apw> IntuitiveNipple, always good to have people helping us out ... #ubuntu-kernel is our home, hastle us
<apw> IntuitiveNipple, sounds interesting, cirtainly i would be happy to review
<amitk> and kernel-team list is available for patch review discussions
<IntuitiveNipple> I'm always there - and when I'm on IRC I am available. I don't leave the client logged in.
<IntuitiveNipple> amitk: Yes, thanks. I don't want to drop anything until Jaunty is done and dusted
<apw> we are never done and dusted, just on another release
<IntuitiveNipple> relatively speaking
<apw> ok ... anyone else got anything?
<apw> else thats a wrap
<apw> thanks to IntuitiveNipple and jro for your input ... come again!
<apw> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:43.
<Veselushko>  :D
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-02-25
 * james_w waves
 * liw waves in 180 seconds
<evand> hi
<robbiew> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:59. The chair is robbiew.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<robbiew> hi
<TheMuso> Hey folks.
<mvo_> hello
<robbiew> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Meetings/2009/0225#Agenda
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Meetings/2009/0225#Agenda
<cjwatson> afternoon
<robbiew> doko: evand: james_w: liw: slangasek: Keybuk: joining?
<Keybuk> no, I thought I'd sit this one out ... ;)
<robbiew> heh
<james_w> we have an option?
<liw> robbiew, "* liw waves in 180 seconds" before you joined :)
<evand> you joined after I said hi :)
<doko> here
<robbiew> ah
<robbiew> liw: evand: apologies
<Keybuk> it's like at school
<Keybuk> when you're sitting at the back of the class
<Keybuk> and the teacher doesn't notice you're there
 * robbiew had last minute agenda hacking to do
<evand> no worries
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Jaunty Alpha 5
<MootBot> New Topic:  Jaunty Alpha 5
<robbiew> http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+bugs?field.milestone:Alist=2213
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+bugs?field.milestone:Alist=2213
<mvo_> I will need to push mine back to alpha-6
<robbiew> 3 bugs...not mad
<robbiew> mvo_: heh, figured that...with your update manager work :)
<mvo_> yeah, I also need to figure out how to setup such a system to actually test the change :)
<robbiew> ec2?
<robbiew> joking
<mvo_> lol
<mvo_> its the anther to all possible questions (plus three more): ec2!
<robbiew> anyone else have major Alpha 5 stuff?
<robbiew> code drops that could break everything
<robbiew> :P
<Keybuk> I'm queuing mine for Friday
<cjwatson> alpha 5 has needed a bit of late work due to hal blowing up
<cjwatson> sound kind of didn't
<cjwatson> pitti was on that earlier today, so I think everything should be in place RSN
<TheMuso> cjwatson: sound kind of didn't blow up you mean?
<cjwatson> or that :)
<cjwatson> but I meant sound kind of didn't sound
<TheMuso> oh
 * TheMuso hasn't fetched updates yet, so has no idea of what could be going on yet
<cjwatson> it was a side-effect of the smbios work in hal
<cjwatson> AIUI, anyway, I haven't looked into it since pitti was on top of it
<TheMuso> ah ok
<james_w> apparently it's building or being published now
 * TheMuso will read changes
<cjwatson> I took the opportunity to respin d-i since ogra was asking for that; apparently they're under a lot of pressure to deliver something that basically works for a5, and there was a kernel upload after the last d-i upload
<robbiew> anything else?
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Jaunty Feature Status
<MootBot> New Topic:  Jaunty Feature Status
<robbiew> not much to really cover here
<robbiew> everything looks in pretty good shape
<cjwatson> slangasek: here, regarding those last couple of specs?
 * james_w is waiting on final approval for his specs, but they look in good shape for that, so I'm not particularly blocked
<robbiew> yeah...those are the ones I wanted to chat about
 * robbiew will have to cover in our 1-to-1 later today
<robbiew> cjwatson: he reported that the grub2 spec is ready for approval
<robbiew> liw: any updates on the package licensing stuff?
<cjwatson> ok, please poke me explicitly if there's anything else that's waiting on me
<cjwatson> and I will make sure it gets done
<robbiew> ok
<liw> robbiew, I have a first draft of the API, based on the spec in the Debian wiki, and I'm looking for someone from OEM to discuss the API with
 * evand would like to land a new Wubi and umenu, which we're tracking in bug 334244
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 334244 in wubi "[FFe] Accept new python-based Wubi for 9.04" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/334244
<liw> robbiew, the spec itself is slangasek's, I think
<james_w> cjwatson, I was under the impression I was waiting for you on one, is that correct?
<robbiew> liw: ok
 * robbiew looks for the OEM contact
<cjwatson> james_w: so you are. queued
<james_w> thanks cjwatson
<robbiew> evand: were you just giving status or making a request? :)
<evand> giving status, slangasek is already aware of it
<robbiew> ah, ok
<robbiew> fyi
<robbiew> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Jaunty#Feature Status
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Jaunty#Feature Status
<robbiew> also tracking Release bugs there
<robbiew> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Jaunty#RC Bugs
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Jaunty#RC Bugs
<cjwatson> we're using this as input for the weekly release meeting
<robbiew> my ultimate plan is for every platform team to have one, should help slangasek move the meeting along faster
<robbiew> moving on
<robbiew> http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+bugs
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+bugs
<robbiew> 88 bugs here
<doko> ohh, wait, before going on with the python2.6 move, I'd like to ask here about it ...
<robbiew> ah
<robbiew> yes
<doko> I did remove python2.5 on my laptop
<robbiew> and?  did it go to hell in a hand basket?
<robbiew> :)
<doko> works fine (or I don't use python)
<james_w> doko: you are considering that for Jaunty?
<doko> james_w: yes
<james_w> seems odd to make 2.6 the only version in the same release it is introduced
<james_w> or have I misunderstood?
<doko> james_w: no, just switching the default, not dropping 2.5
<liw> why would that be odd?
<james_w> doko: ah, that seems fine
<robbiew> james_w: would have 3.0, 2.5, and 2.6...with 2.6 by default
<robbiew> :)
<james_w> liw: I was just thinking it would force developers to port their own code to 2.6 with no real alternative when upgrading, not that it's too much work
<james_w> the proposed solution sounds fine to me
<doko> cjwatson: I would like to see us to "support" something as a build-dependency, but not as a dependency (then we could get rid of the discussion about demoting non-default python versions=
<cjwatson> doko: we can do that, we just have no way to indicate it to users
<cjwatson> doko: we can't do any better until after archivereorganisation (second phase)
<cjwatson> i.e. it still has to stay in main
<cjwatson> my guess is that the biggest practical problem in terms of number of programs affected is the removal of string exceptions
<cjwatson> remind me when that was deprecated?
<cjwatson> http://docs.python.org/whatsnew/2.6.html#porting-to-python-2-6
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://docs.python.org/whatsnew/2.6.html#porting-to-python-2-6
<doko> yes, pitti got bitten by this
<liw> cjwatson, 2.0?
<cjwatson> but realistically, we have to switch the default at some point, and people running code in production should be testing first ... I'm OK as long as we can be reasonably confident we've ported everything in Ubuntu
<cjwatson> (or at least everything anyone might care about)
<liw> ah now, string exceptions were depreceatd only in 2.5
<james_w> do you find out about that at compile time, or just when you hit the exception?
<cjwatson> I think they've been disrecommended since I started using Python (so, er, 2.2 or 2.3?)
<liw> I remember them being disrecommended since 2.0, but I might be wrong
<liw> james_w, given that Python is a dynamically typed language, at run time I'm pretty sure
<james_w> which is not ideal
<robbiew> doko: Keybuk: do you want to discuss the i486 versus i586/i686 arch support here? For boot performance
<TheMuso> I maintain a couple of packages that use python/have python bindings. What do I have to do to switch them to 2.6, since it doesn't seem they were touched in doko's mass uploads.
<Keybuk> robbiew: if you like
 * robbiew waits for a response to question from TheMuso
<TheMuso> sorry I should check the email on devel about what needs changing, will check there
<robbiew> ok
<doko> TheMuso: which one's, are these in the PPA? https://edge.launchpad.net/~pythoneers/+archive/ppa
<TheMuso> doko: Haven't looked there, I'd have to check. The ones in question are gnome-orca and brltty
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Switching to i586/i686 arch support
<MootBot> New Topic:  Switching to i586/i686 arch support
<Keybuk> I think we should switch to -march=i686
<cjwatson> please review earlier UDS discussions on this subject
<doko> brltty is fixed in the PPA, looks like I missed the orca.
<Keybuk> cjwatson: do you have a URL?
<cjwatson> not offhand, I'm looking
<doko> TheMuso: will update gnome-orca after the meeting
<TheMuso> doko: ok
<robbiew> cjwatson: ok, we can review the UDS stuff and cover this next week...or by email
<mvo_> doko: if you mass upload packages, could you please respect packages maintained in bzr?
<cjwatson> this is a very old discussion and there are serious consequences elsewhere
<doko> Keybuk: I'm all for it, because everybody else builds for this. which cpu's would be loose?
<Keybuk> doko: anything older than a pentium 2
<Keybuk> but then we have lpia now
<cjwatson> the mobile team wants to ditch lpia
<cjwatson> and lpia was designed for newer architectures not older, anyway
<Keybuk> are there really that many people still using Ubuntu on < i686 ?
<doko> mvo_: I'll try to, and send bug reports about it. but I would like to keep the hours of breakage short
<cjwatson> also, it's not just a linear axis - the various clones have different properties
<Keybuk> and do we care more about them than the utter vast majority using i686 hardware
<cjwatson> consider the Via C3
<cjwatson> "care more" is a vast, and tendentious, simplificationa
<cjwatson> -a
<Keybuk> cjwatson: if the Via C3 doesn't work with i686, then it doesn't work with Fedora, RHEL, SuSE, SLE, SLED, SLES, etc. already right?
<cjwatson> it's the difference between supporting something with a slight performance difference, and not supporting something at all
<mvo_> doko: I'm happy to help you with this, its just a pain to merge this stuff in retrospect. a quick mail to e.g. ubuntu-devel is enough
<cjwatson> Keybuk: Fedora has an i586 kernel
<cjwatson> so I assume that they have at least some i586 userspace support
<Keybuk> cjwatson: Fedora build all their packages -march=i686
<cjwatson> do they require cmov support?
<Keybuk> cjwatson: how would I tell trivially?
<cjwatson> Keybuk: in any case, we shouldn't even be having this discussion without real numbers
<doko> mvo_: fine, please have some time on Friday =)
<cjwatson> Keybuk: I have no idea, you're the proponent :-)
<Keybuk> cjwatson: well, we benchmark consistently slower than them
<Keybuk> at most common operations
<doko> Keybuk: did you try to rebuild you stuff with -march=i686 to validate?
<cjwatson> I want to know what happens if we rebuild for i686 and then try to boot
<mvo_> doko: this friday?
<doko> mvo_: yes
<Keybuk> doko: not yet, I was actually going to ask you how I'd do that
<Keybuk> I thought it'd be an interesting experiment to build an i686 cd and compare the two
<doko> CFLAGS+=-march=i686
<Keybuk> doko: it'd be much easier if I could do it in a semi-automated fashion :p
<Keybuk> rather than by-hand rebuilding every single package :D
<cjwatson> IME, many of the lower-powered clone CPUs are used in embedded devices
<doko> ahh, ok the whole CD ... yes, maybe I'll give you a gcc build, or kess can give you just another wrapper
<Keybuk> cjwatson: Atom supports i686 just fine
<cjwatson> Atom is really very new, by comparison
<mvo_> doko: I reply later, I don't want to interfere with the ongoing discussion
<doko> via c7 as well
<slangasek> sorry
 * robbiew recommends we move this discussion to ubuntu-devel
<cjwatson> and I don't think that Fedora (and family) and SuSE (and family) are our only competitors; they are our most significant Linux-based desktop/laptop/server competitors
<robbiew> slangasek: no worries...we just gave you all the Actions (j/k) :P
<liw> . o O (making it easy to do large-scale changes would allow much more experimentation on Ubuntu)
<doko> but having a new architecture doesn't seem to be too good as well ...
<cjwatson> Fedora appears to have an i586 architecture
<cjwatson> we know, unfortunately, how much work a new architecture is
<cjwatson> (the answer is: lots)
<Keybuk> cjwatson: Fedora have an i386 architecture as well
<cjwatson> so it is not true to say that the older C3s don't work with Fedora
<cjwatson> (which you said above)
<Keybuk> cjwatson: I actually can't find i586 or even i386 builds for F11 right now
<doko> openjdk is built with -march=i586 ...
<cjwatson> I can never find anything in Fedora :-)
<Keybuk> anyway, I'll go and play and build an i686 CD
<Keybuk> and then I'll make some benchmarks
<Keybuk> and then if it's no better, I'll shut up ;P
<robbiew> heh...ok
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Sponsorship Queue
<MootBot> New Topic:  Sponsorship Queue
<Keybuk> as long as cjwatson promises that if there's a significant difference ... :p
<cjwatson> I make no promises :)
<Keybuk> I'll take your coffee away
<Keybuk> or, worse, I'll secretly replace all your beans with decaf
<robbiew> http://people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach/sponsoring/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach/sponsoring/
 * cjwatson begs for mercy
<cjwatson> I have done gparted this week, which took way longer than I had hoped
<robbiew> too bad there's no way to see who is the "sponsor" from this list...unless they made the last comment
<robbiew> k...moving on
<robbiew> [TOPIC] All hands CFP
<MootBot> New Topic:  All hands CFP
<robbiew> I'm sure cjwatson cares DEEPLY about this topic ;)
<cjwatson> heh, yes, I got nominated as the engineering track lead
<cjwatson> voluntold
<cjwatson> https://wiki.canonical.com/AllHands/2009/InsideView might be interesting to people
<doko> hmm, still time to submit topics?
<cjwatson> I plan to make some suggestions, but please do get yours in first
<robbiew> doko: yes
<cjwatson> yes, the deadline is 1200 UTC 9 March
<cjwatson> plenty of time
<liw> I've suggested a topic already
<robbiew> james_w: so you can wow people with a bzr talk
<cjwatson> if you don't want to do a full 40-minute (or whatever it is) presentation, we're happy to consider lightning talks
<robbiew> and I'm sure Keybuk can dust off a boot performance talk, heh
<robbiew> evand: maybe a wubi overview...lots of folks don't know about it's coolness :P
<Keybuk> sure
<evand> sure, if people think that will be useful I can talk a bit about how it works.
<ara> hey hey
<robbiew> and don't worry, yours truly is on the hook to present *something* for the Skills development track
 * TheMuso has been pondering something accessibility wise, but can't think of something concrete to talk about. :)
<cjwatson> I've put in a "history of the installer" proposal
<davmor2> hello
<slangasek> in the beginning there was the boot-floppy
 * robbiew sees we have 4 min left
<slangasek> and it was ugly
<doko> are 40min enough if this includes the debian installer? ;)
<liw> TheMuso, "this is how you enable accessibility on your desktop, and how you use it, so that you can make sure your stuff works for me"?
<cjwatson> slangasek: and Bruce said: let there be floppies; and floppies appeared; ethereal, first of things, quintessence pure
<TheMuso> liw: This is what I mean, something more concrete and informative than that.
<liw> slangasek, not ugly! it's not ugly to edit root fs location to offsets 508 and 509 in a hex editor!
<robbiew> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:57.
<heno> lol
<mvo_> thanks
<liw> gracias
<robbiew> I have to join another meeting guys...thanks for joining
<evand> thanks!
<TheMuso> thanks
<james_w> thanks
<slangasek> liw: I was referring to boot-floppies, the installer - that's ugly :-)
<slangasek> thanks, all
<heno> hey all
 * ogasawara waves
 * ara waves
<davmor2> hello
<jcastro> hi!
<fader> howdy
<jcozens> hi
<bdmurray> hi
<heno> ogasawara, sbeattie: here?
<sbeattie> hey
<heno> pedro is on leave
 * ogasawara is here
<heno> (at the beach!)
<schwuk> .o/
<heno> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:03. The chair is heno.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<heno> welcome everyone :)
<heno> we have an action-packed agenda today: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings
<heno> [TOPIC] UbuntuBugDay highlights
<MootBot> New Topic:  UbuntuBugDay highlights
<heno> pedro normally reports on this - can someone else fill us in?
<jcastro> I have stats!
<jcastro> http://daniel.holba.ch/five-a-day-stats/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://daniel.holba.ch/five-a-day-stats/
<jcastro> so about half the teams involved reported, touching over 1,510 bugs
<jcastro> last year we touched ~800 or so bugs
<jcastro> so almost double
<bdmurray> jcastro: that's the GBJ stats right?
<jcastro> yep
<jcastro> GBJ only
<jcastro> oh wait, my bad, I mixed up hugday with GBJ, sorry heno
<heno> ok, np :)
<bdmurray> jcastro: that's great and from the stories it sounds like people had a lot of fun right?
<jcastro> http://www.jonobacon.org/2009/02/24/ubuntu-global-bug-jam-success/?replytocom=129967#respond
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.jonobacon.org/2009/02/24/ubuntu-global-bug-jam-success/?replytocom=129967#respond
<jcastro> yep, we consider it a great success
<bdmurray> awesome! ;-)
<heno> yeah it seems to have gone well :)
<jcastro> The one thing I think we could do better in the future is to let lp admins know about it more
<heno> I met several new triagers at the Birmingham Jam who will hopefully keep at it
<jcastro> there were some LP issues during the jam, getting slow, etc. The stats were pretty broken for most of it but that's being fixed.
<davmor2> heno: Yeah the guys there on Friday were mostly new and got right into it :)
<heno> jcastro: will there be a lessons-learned follow-up session?
<heno> just to wrap up the bug _day_ report: last week was nm-applet: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20090219
<heno> mangilimic and others put in a solid effort there
<bdmurray> We also had some new triagers which is great!
<heno> tomorrow is apport crashes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20090226
<jcastro> heno: yeah we're gathering information still
<bdmurray> Additionally, identifying the bugs with patches went well and a lot of them have been fixed now.
<davmor2> bdmurray: maybe a blog post saying with bug jam over it doesn't stop there :)
<heno> bdmurray: that's excellent!
<heno> jcastro: ok great
<heno> [TOPIC] Launchpad Greasemonkey - shared stock replies
<MootBot> New Topic:  Launchpad Greasemonkey - shared stock replies
<bdmurray> There is a now a shared xml file of standard responses used by lp_stockreplies
<bdmurray> You can learn a bit more about it at http://www.murraytwins.com/blog/?p=34
<bdmurray> The shared responses make it easier to use the greasemonkey script and can make triaging easier.
<heno> great - are the QA tools listed in the bug jam docs?
<bdmurray> jcastro: ?
<heno> I introduced the group in Birmingham to them
<heno> it's probably worth mentioning these at hug days too, along with hug day tools
<heno> (is that in the package btw?)
<ara> heno: hug-day tool is already in the qa-tools pkg
<heno> makes sense
<heno> we should just update the hug day docs then
<heno> ara: can you add info about the package?
<jcastro> bdmurray: no I don't think it is, we are reshuffling around the docs anyway so I will make a note to mention them
<ara> sure, I will do
<heno> thanks
<heno> [TOPIC] New bug control member
<MootBot> New Topic:  New bug control member
<bdmurray> Charles Profitt, cprofitt, applied to the bug control team last week and was accepted.
<heno> congrats cprofitt!
<heno> I understand the bug jam has resulted in some applications too?
<davmor2> congrats :)
<bdmurray> That's correct there are a few more applications pending at the moment.
<heno> cool :)
<jcastro> jams wouldn't be a bad avenue for doing bug control application advocacy
<jcastro> for the experienced participants anyway
<heno> jcastro: I certainly did ;)
<heno> [TOPIC] Most affected report
<MootBot> New Topic:  Most affected report
<heno> http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/launchpad-database/bugs-with-most-users-affected.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/launchpad-database/bugs-with-most-users-affected.html
<bdmurray> I think jcastro and or pedro were looking for that.  Its all the open bug tasks with lots of people clicking metoo.
<davmor2> I thin the bluetooth needs resolving ;)
<heno> bdmurray: I wonder if we could/should do a combined score with subscriber count
<bdmurray> It might be an interesting way to find blind spots, like if sort by status we can see there are some bugs with a New status and 15 / 14 people affected.
<heno> as in additive count, not just separate columns
<heno> (bug hotness proposal re-heated)
<bdmurray> heno: right some weight scheme that includes metoo, subscribers and duplicates?
<davmor2> :)
<ara> bdmurray: but only direct subscribers
<bdmurray> ara: right
<heno> bdmurray: right
<cr3> heno: do you think I should add bluetooth tests to checkbox soonish for jaunty testing?
<bdmurray> I'd assign the most weight to duplicates, subscribers and then metoo
<bdmurray> as metoo usage possibly swap the weight btwn subscribers and metto
<bdmurray> However, metoo seems like less interest than subscribing so maybe not
<bdmurray> s/metoo usage/metoo usage increases/
<heno> bdmurray: sounds good - the scheme can be fairly arbitrary as long as it's described in the footer
<fader> bdmurray: does a metoo not automatically subscribe you to a bug?
<heno> no
<bdmurray> fader: no it does not
<fader> bdmurray: I've been misusing lp then... heh
<heno> it represents a lower level of commitment for the user
<heno> since they don't get email
 * fader nods.
<fader> I just had misinterpreted its use.
<sbeattie> bdmurray: might be useful to condense multiple tasks from the same bug into one.
<heno> do we have any idea of whether the feature has reduced 'me too' comments?
<bdmurray> sbeattie: in that report?
<sbeattie> bdmurray: yes, in that report.
<bdmurray> sbeattie: okay, I'll think about it
<heno> ok, next
<sbeattie> bdmurray: source is at?
<heno> [TOPIC] New bug tags (dxteam and notifications)
<MootBot> New Topic:  New bug tags (dxteam and notifications)
<ara> bdmurray: gm script suggestion: me-too+subscribe
<bdmurray> sbeattie: nowhere really since its a database query
<bdmurray> I could stick it somewhere though
<bdmurray> The dxteam has added some new bug tags to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Tags
<bdmurray> notification is for bugs related to the new notification system
<bdmurray> and dxteam is for bugs targeted by the dxteam
<bdmurray> that's all there
<bdmurray> er, its notifications plural not notification
<heno> I should speak with them about looking at team-assignment as well
<ara> hadn't they add 'flame'? for flame bugs?
<davmor2> bdmurray: is this bug control who have access to this
<heno> so we can make a page for them based on that
<bdmurray> davmor2: access to what?
<davmor2> tags for notifications and dxteam
<heno> anyone can set a tag
<bdmurray> anybody can set bug tags
<heno> (for better or worse)
<heno> [TOPIC] Next Testing day topic & highlights from last UTD
<MootBot> New Topic:  Next Testing day topic & highlights from last UTD
<ara> last monday we had the first testing day focused on new features
<ara> kirkland and cjwatson were very responsive in #ubuntu-testing, thanks guys!
<ara> davmor2 tested LVM partitioner and found a couple of bugs that he debugged with cjwatson
<kirkland> ara: cheers!
<ara> kirkland fixed and released some bugs found during the testing day ;-)
<ara> I was happy to see new people coming
<ara> the low point was maybe UNR images: it was a bit disappointing, as ubiquity for netbooks was broken.
<cjwatson> as did I
<cjwatson> (fixed and released)
<cjwatson> yes, the timing was unfortunate regarding UNR images
<ara> and for next Monday we were thinking about notify-osd and checkbox
 * heno hugs cjwatson and kirkland
<ara> but, notify-osd team prefer to do it after UI freeze
<ara> and checkbox 0.6 is not yet in the archive
 * kirkland hugs heno and the entire testing team!  thanks guys!
<heno> ara: and you are proposing to start running testing days weekly, right?
<ara> what do you guys suggest?
<ara> heno: weekly or biweekly
<heno> on milestone weeks perhaps we could focus them on ISO smoke testing?
<heno> it's the perfect time for that (Mondays)
<heno> then other weeks we could do more in-depth app testing
<davmor2> +1
<ara> ok, next Monday alpha 5 then :)
<heno> davmor2: thanks for volunteering to run those ;)
<davmor2> :)
<heno> ara: actually this week would have been alpha 5 smoke testing
<heno> to smoke out show stoppers before the real ISO coverage testing starts
<ara> heno: ok, I thought you meant coverage testing
<davmor2> heno: of course if they get introduced the night before
<heno> sure there is always that
<heno> fader: can you work with davmor2 to run the ISO smoke testing days? ; ara can you coordinate the other weeks for app testing?
<ara> heno: sure
<fader> heno: Sure, though I might need you or davmor2 to fill me in a bit on what needs done
<ara> heno: then the question is still there... next week topic? :D
<heno> fader: will do
<heno> osd-notify +1
<heno> schwuk: should we test checkbox as well then?
<ara> heno: did you see dbarth reply
<ara> heno: he would prefer after ui freeze
<ara> heno: he insisted
<davmor2> heno: we can always do a smoktesting practice run :)
<heno> ara: I see now, fair enough
<schwuk> heno: we can, but - as said - 0.6 isn't in the archive yet.
<heno> how about an audio testing day?
<davmor2> :)
<ara> heno: OK, that sounds nice :-)
<heno> ok, excellent!
<davmor2> heno why not MM and cover rhythmbox and totem
<heno> [TOPIC] Checkbox PPA (again) - schwuk
<MootBot> New Topic:  Checkbox PPA (again) - schwuk
<heno> davmor2: we can do - ara decides ;)
<schwuk> Further to the PPA announcement last week, we now have 0.7 in the PPA. This version includes our PolicyKit and Report features.
<schwuk> Along with the latest suspend_test script from the kernel team.
<schwuk> (I suppose we could use the PPA for testing, but that seems...wrong)
<heno> schwuk: it doesn't have bug reporting right?
<schwuk> Nope - that will be 0.8.
<heno> I suggest we apply for a FF exception next week and test the next Monday
<schwuk> This was just bringing the PPA up-to-date with our development work.
<heno> having the testing day lined up should help the FF application too ;)
<heno> schwuk: ok
<heno> any other business?
<davmor2> yes
<heno> davmor2: did you want to report on ISO testing?
<davmor2> Testing today came to a grinding holt due to https://launchpad.net/bugs/334299
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 334299 in hal "Jaunty: No sound cards any more" [High,Fix released]
<davmor2> this turn out to be hal acl. thanks pitti for the fix. so all new iso's are just start to be respun
<heno> an audio testing day seems timely
<heno> IOW help with ISO testing in #ubuntu-testing today will be greatly appreciated!
<davmor2> also there are still some issues with lvm/partitioning that need to be resolved https://launchpad.net/bugs/319150 https://launchpad.net/bugs/332270 https://launchpad.net/bugs/334341 all inter linked kinda
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 319150 in partman-lvm "[jaunty] Unable to remove pre-existing LVM" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<heno> thanks for the update davmor2 (and for all the testing!)
<heno> any other topics?
<heno> (briefly)
<heno> ok
<heno> #endmeting
<heno> urm
<heno> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:02.
<heno> thanks everyone!
<schwuk> Thanks heno
<davmor2> thanks heno
<ara> thanks :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-02-26
<nikolam> Hi, can I use fridge calendar when calendar has moved to google calneda? Can I import ical calendar like before?
<dholbach> nikolam: I answered in #ubuntu-devel
<nikolam> thanks dholbach :)
<dholbach> no worries
<persia> OK.  Time for the Mobile meeting.
 * lool waves
<persia> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 06:00. The chair is persia.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
 * GrueMaster Zzzzzzzz
<lool> persia: I guess davidm_ can't make it?
 * ogra waits for the stranding StevenK 
 * NCommander is here
<persia> lool, about 30%, I believe.
<davidm_> I'm here
<ogra> he said he would watch as much as he can
<persia> Anyway: agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20090226
 * StevenK shores
<persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20090226
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20090226
<persia> [TOPIC] outstanding action items (persia)
<MootBot> New Topic:  outstanding action items (persia)
<persia> I got distracted by something else, and completely forgot to check these, and will chase them all tomorrow.
<lool> Ack; co I guess
<persia> [TOPIC] outstanding action items (NCommander)
<MootBot> New Topic:  outstanding action items (NCommander)
<NCommander> licipc-sharelite-perl - some progress has been made, but still outstanding
<NCommander> (I found the cause, but I'm localizing)
<NCommander> Also working on ARM benchmarking, but that's not getting very far
<NCommander> And I did the i386 jax10 testing, still can't test the lpia kernels (the lpia alternate CD kinda ... wonky)
<NCommander> That's all for me.
<persia> Um.  What about arm-softboot-loader and bug #280669?  (these were the action items from last week)
<ogra> NCommander, you messed up the table on the roadmap
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 280669 in linux "Doesn't detect second part of SSD drive on jax10" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/280669
<NCommander> persia, that was the jax10 testing
<StevenK> I thought that bug was fixed?
<NCommander> Semi-fixed
<NCommander> I can see both SSD drives
<NCommander> DMA still shot.
<persia> OK.
<lool> StevenK: The patch which I rescued might allow for faster SSD performance with a higher DMA mode
<NCommander> lool, I can'tg et an lpia install on it to test apw's kernel
<lool> NCommander: What's the problem?
<NCommander> ubiquity doesn't work at 640x480
<NCommander> WHich is what the MID image boots up as
<lool> NCommander: And with the alternate CD?
<NCommander> and I can't complete an install with the lpia CD, at least the dailies.
<lool> How so?
<ogra> where does it fail
<ogra> and did you keep the installer log ?
<NCommander> Partman has issues
<NCommander> No
<NCommander> SOmeone (persia I think) told me that the lpia image has kernel install problems
<NCommander> so I'm trying a 8.10 lpia image, just so I can kill this testing image.
<lool> NCommander: Otherwise, create an USB stick with the lpia kernel; getting dmesg output is all you need
<lool> NCommander: Please file bugs if you discover issues on the jax10 with the current install CDs
<lool> Well the ubiquity issue is know; having jaunty psb drivers might help too
<NCommander> Alright, I'll do a full install and keep logs
<NCommander> lool, actually, I was about to try that (I'm waiting for my pendisk to finish writing now)
<ogra> it would be helpful if you did one std. install and saved the log somewhere public
<persia> [ACTION] NCommander to report installer bugs with logs from jax10 install
<MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to report installer bugs with logs from jax10 install
<persia> Moving on...
<persia> [TOPIC] outstanding action items (StevenK)
<MootBot> New Topic:  outstanding action items (StevenK)
<NCommander> ogra, it works fine with the i386 install, its just lpia that flakes out.
<StevenK> Oh? What have I done?
<ogra> NCommander, right, and a log will help
<lool> # StevenK to file poulsbo packaging bugs (co)
<persia> StevenK, StevenK to file poulsbo packaging bugs (co)
<StevenK> I could have sworn there is a kernel bug
<ogra> StevenK, StevenK, StevenK to file poulsbo packaging bugs (co)
<ogra> :P
<StevenK> Okay, so I need to actually find some time to file bugs for the packages we need for Intrepid?
<StevenK> I'll make some time tomorrow to file them
<persia> Yep.
<persia> So, that's action item review.
<persia> Next up: Roadmap.
<persia> [topic] offline-installer
<MootBot> New Topic:  offline-installer
<persia> ogra^
<ogra> still in "beta available"
<ogra> i focused on the nslu2 A5 this week
<persia> OK.
<ogra> so no further progress
<persia> [topic] unr-handling-jaunty
<MootBot> New Topic:  unr-handling-jaunty
<StevenK> Still proceeding. I think it shouldn't be Good Progress any more, but Beta Available, since we have nearly 3 alphas out
<persia> Then flip the bit :)
<StevenK> I shall :-)
<persia> [topic] mobile-setup-wizard
<MootBot> New Topic:  mobile-setup-wizard
<lool> davidm: The links to specs on the Roadmap page are broken because they use the UbuntuSpec: shortcut which works only for blueprints in the Ubuntu project; did you care to have the blueprints filed under the ubuntu-mobile versus the ubuntu project?
<persia> [topic] Roadmap management
<MootBot> New Topic:  Roadmap management
<cjwatson> NCommander: there are general problems with partitioning that seem to be racy, so I wouldn't label it as being just one architecture if I were you
<lool> persia: Let's move back to mobile-setup-wizard; I'll change the project of the specs to be ubuntu
<NCommander> cjwatson, I'm going to grab the lastest daily image and rerun the install, and grab the logs, and post the issues.
<davidm> lool, sure
<persia> lool, Sounds good.
<persia> [topic] mobile-setup-wizard
<MootBot> New Topic:  mobile-setup-wizard
<persia> Not progress to report
<persia> [topic] mobile-team-seed-management
<MootBot> New Topic:  mobile-team-seed-management
<persia> Do we still need this there?  Isn't it mostly blocked on ArchiveReorigansation at this point?
<StevenK> Yes
<StevenK> Drop it
<persia> OK.
<persia> [topic] general-resolution-for-touchscreen
<MootBot> New Topic:  general-resolution-for-touchscreen
<ogra> deferred ...
<persia> [topic] arm-softboot-loader
<MootBot> New Topic:  arm-softboot-loader
<ogra> bug 334711 touches it though
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 334711 in mobile-meta "Ubuntu MID misses several X input drivers" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/334711
<ogra> (with an alternate solution request)
<NCommander> No progress. I think we need to defer this one until jaunty+1, and work out specific if we want/need it, and how to implement it at UDS.
<persia> [topic] selection-of-arm-images
<MootBot> New Topic:  selection-of-arm-images
<StevenK> persia: So, I reckon we add -all to MID
<persia> StevenK, Ugly, but yes.
<ogra> we have untested live images and no kernels to merge them yet
<ogra> "in progress"
<persia> [topic] lpia-versus-i386
<MootBot> New Topic:  lpia-versus-i386
<ogra> StevenK, i'd like to research clashes first before we blindly add -all, many old drivers dont work
<lool> Nothing new to report on lpia-versus-i386
<persia> [topic] mobile-spec-cleanup
<MootBot> New Topic:  mobile-spec-cleanup
<ogra> they are still in the ring and fighting :P
<persia> I'll get back to it when my plate is clearer
<persia> [topic] bug #299847
<MootBot> New Topic:  bug #299847
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 299847 in linux "Shared memory operations on very fast ARM hardware suffer from non-atomic operations and race conditions." [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/299847
<lool> NCommander already reported on bug #299847; NCommander: you're not stuck at this point, right?
<NCommander> We localized it to a race condition
<NCommander> I'd like someone to review my test case, but it looks like its a perl problem vs. kernel
<ogra> but you still didnt see it on any local HW, did you ?
<lool> A Perl problem?.
<StevenK> ogra: Fair enough, I'm subscribed to the bug, so just bleat there.
<ogra> only on the porter box
<NCommander> Well, I rewrote the perl test in C
<NCommander> Using the same APIs the perl libraries does
<NCommander> and I could not reproduce
<NCommander> Which suggests the issue is not in the kernel or glibc, but somewhere in the library or perl itself. I don't see anything obvious from the library code though on what could be causing it.
<lool> NCommander: Compare straces and see whether you're really reproducing the Perl case
<lool> I would doubt the Perl layer changes anything, especially at it works on other hw; perhaps the timing is not the same
<NCommander> I can't say I know enough about perl to say one way or another.
<lool> Ok, I'll look at the testcase you wrote
<NCommander> I'll attach it to the bug.
<persia> [topic] bug #331510
<MootBot> New Topic:  bug #331510
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 331510 in linux "ixp4xx kernel to big to use with debian-installer on NSLU2" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/331510
<ogra> fixed
<persia> Remove it then :)
<persia> [topic] bug #322217
<MootBot> New Topic:  bug #322217
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 322217 in linux "ixp4xx image does not boot" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/322217
<persia> Also fixed :)
 * persia previews
<ogra> fixed :)
<lool> 322217 is fix released as well
<lool> Oh we skipped #331510
<lool> No we didn't, it just goes too fast for me
<persia> [topic] bug #319729
<MootBot> New Topic:  bug #319729
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 319729 in ubuntu-release-notes "ARM architecture lacks support for pselect() and ppoll()" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/319729
<ogra> we hit another bug with langpack installation during my A5 tests which cjwatson fixed immediately
<lool> persia: This bug is moved to kernel team and it was decided to fix in a jaunty update
<ogra> so its not recorded but will show up in A5 NSLU2 images, i'll file it and add it to the page
<lool> because taking a contractor to fix this was too expensive, so we'll implement ourselves when we have time which is after jaunty
<persia> Cool.  Unless we need further discussion or tracking in the meetings, let's drop it from the roadmap.
<lool> Removed from roadmap
<persia> [topic] bug #328167
<MootBot> New Topic:  bug #328167
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 328167 in gnome-keyring "gnome-keyring-daemon eating 100% CPU at login in Jaunty" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/328167
<lool> Ah no, conflict
<lool> Actually no <title>500 Internal Server Error</title>
<lool> But it worked, eh
<ogra> i didnt save
<lool> I'd like someone to investigate 328167
<ogra> so no conflict :)
<lool> It's reported by jerone and is likely to affect all GNOME installs on armel
 * ogra hasnt seen it ever
<NCommander> I was talking with jerone on this
<ogra> but jerone insists he sees it everywhere
<NCommander> It only happens with fresh installations it seems
<ogra> because he removes it right after the issue comes up ?
<ogra> when does it go away exactly ? and how ?
<NCommander> He says he kills the process
<ogra> you said it only shows up with fresh installs ... so i assume it doesnt show up on older used ones ?
<lool> Ok, would one of you two please investigate?
<ogra> NCommander needs to stay on the initramfs stuff, i'll take a look next week
<lool> Do a GNOME install on babbage and see whether you reproduce, if not ask jerone
<persia> [action] ogra to investigate 328167
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ogra to investigate 328167
<lool> ogra: => assign
<persia> [topic] NSLU2 enablement
<MootBot> New Topic:  NSLU2 enablement
<ogra> well, as i said above, d-i works so far apart from a bug with locale generation cjwatson fixed
<ogra> but that fix isnt included in the A5 image
<ogra> which makes an NSLU2 install 30h long or so
<cjwatson> an infelicity rather than a bug, really
<ogra> (generating one locale takes ~90min)
<cjwatson> the bug is that localedef takes so much memory; that I haven't fixed ...
<ogra> well, our d-i process was never designed for 30M systems :)
<ogra> i guess i'm the first one ever to try ubuntu d-i on 30M :)
<cjwatson> nothing really to do with its design
<lool> Frankly, I wouldn't like the team spending much more time to make the installation on NSLU2 faster or more pleasant; we spent a lot of time on it already, and we have other things on our plates
<persia> [topic] VFP optimisations
<MootBot> New Topic:  VFP optimisations
<ogra> lool, 30h arent acceptable
<lool> So I spent most of last week on glibc; it was terribly time consuming as I hit a bunch of unrelated build issues
<ogra> otherwise i agree
<lool> I sent patches to Debian for these issues and worked around them; I isolated what was causing the hang -- actually extreme slowness
<lool> Just calling nextafterf() takes 4.5 minutes on the porter box
<lool> It is likely due to a bug of the Marvell FPU hardware, which Catalin (from ARM) hinted me at by pointing at a thread on linux-arm-kernel
<ogra> erm, could it be that the perl issue is related ?
<lool> The only solution seems to have an ifdef quirk in the kernel, albeit I'm not sure why this is true; I've contacted our two ARM contacts and two people I was told are working on the Marvell support in the ARM kernel
<persia> Or if not related, similar in root cause
<ogra> right
<lool> ogra: No; it's not fp related
<lool> I highly doubt it is
<lool> So at this point I'll drop the glibc vfp pass and will work on other vfp work; I personally think this might hold up VFP enablement for packages where we run the testsuite during build
<persia> [topic] ARM Benchmarking
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Benchmarking
<lool> I'll check with infinity whether we can build a new kernel with the patch included
<persia> Err.  Sorry!
<lool> It's ok; I'm done now
<NCommander> ARMv5, ARMv5+some libs, ARMv5+fulLVFP done.
<NCommander> I can't install mojo armv6 with the babbage via d-i, and QEMU doesn't have the necessary emulator support
<NCommander> So I'm stuck ATM
<lool> I have a candidate project to help us test Ubuntu binaries with random opt flags
<lool> But I'd like to discuss it here first
<lool> This might serve OEM or ourselves if we ever want to provide an optimized archive (still pretending to be armel)
<lool> Or for testing of various opts
<NCommander> I don't have anything else (unless we want to go indepth on my armv6 issues :-/)
<lool> The idea I had is quite simple: use EC2 to mass-rebuild the archive in qemu
<persia> lool, Won't that run into the cross-grade issues that mojo has?
<NCommander> That won't work lool
<lool> persia: cross-grade?
<NCommander> at least for ARMv6/ARMv7
<lool> So we need of course a patched qemu with omap3 support
<persia> lool, e.g. mixing Debian and mojo breaks things.
<davidm> NCommander, is there any way likely to work to get the installer to work for you?
<ogra> there is the beagleboard qemu hack
<lool> persia: Well if we use the good soft-float ABI, it shouldn't; not sure whether mojo did that
<ogra> but that lacks support for the disk controller yet
<NCommander> davidm, if I had access to something Hasty ARMv6 supports, I can generate the image and do the benchmarks, but I don't have anything with the right hardware
<NCommander> I *think* the beagleboard could generate the image however.
<lool> ogra: The problem is instruction set support I think
<davidm> NCommander, send me a list of what they support please
<NCommander> davidm, will do
<ogra> it has the omap3 instruction set afaik
<NCommander> Why don't we just pool all our ARM hardware and do an archive rebuild that way?
<lool> ogra: Well then we're suggesting the same thing, add omap3 instruction set support to our qemu :-)
<lool> NCommander: Because we use it?
<ogra> but misses support for the peripherial chipsets yet
<lool> ogra: We don't really care as long as it runs a virtual machine
<NCommander> lool, so the builds run in the background ...
<ogra> lool, no disk controller...
<lool> NCommander: Also, from mojo experience it's far more effective to rebuild on a large cluster of x86 hw than on ARM hw
<ogra> lool, you wont fit a whole archive in the flash
<persia> I think we're looking at three different things now: benchmarking, optimised builds, and emulation improvements.  Shall we separate them?
<NCommander> lool, mojo compiles on real hardware.
<ogra> no disk contoller meaning no USB either
 * NCommander has done some experimenting in the realm of optimized rebuilds ...
<lool> NCommander: I'm rebooting, I don't have tons of space, and some packages are very long to build (e.g. glibc takes days on an evm -- didn't complete, and a day on babbage)
<lool> NCommander: No
<lool> NCommander: It used to and moved to qemu
<NCommander> I'd like to know how they did the armv6 builds then ...
<lool> They used to build on thecus and moved to dell x86 servers running qemu
<ogra> right
<NCommander> Because if there is patches for QEMU for ARMv6, I can generate the last image I need to do my benchmarks.
<persia> NCommander, mojo is native-compiled inside QEMU, rather than cross-compiled, but it's still on x86.
<lool> NCommander: They aren't qemu mainline but patch support for the instruction set in?
<lool> +using
 * NCommander looked and didn't see any
<NCommander> If you know where they are, please send me a link :-)
<lool> Anyway, I think the proposal is appealing because we have unlimited computing power on EC2 and if we develop such a mass build infrastructure we have a good story for:
<lool> - people needing to build armel packages -- no armel PPA, remember
<lool> - testing opt flags
<lool> - OEM
<lool> - QA mass rebuilds
<NCommander> lool, well, I have no objection to doing that (I even can help setup the infrastructure to do it)
<ogra> ++
<lool> - maemo folks wanting to build armel packages for maemo   ;-)
<NCommander> I'm just not sure QEMU has the support
<persia> lool, Do you want to add that to the roadmap?
 * NCommander has set up the entire software stack for Debian/m68k before ...
<lool> persia: I wanted to see what people think of it, and whether we can devote time to it
<ogra> NCommander, the beagle patch adds that support ...
 * NCommander needs to find it
<ogra> and there should be other patches that are less board specific and hackish
<NCommander> If I could get versalite with armv6/7, we'd be in business
<ogra> http://beagleboard.org/project/qemu-omap3/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://beagleboard.org/project/qemu-omap3/
<lool> My idea was to create a script to create an EC2 image which would support building any type of packages -- armel on jaunty or others -- and a master "archive" image; then it's trivial to do the rebuild
<lool> StevenK, davidm: Comments?
<lool> ogra seems to like the idea, NCommander isn't sure it's possible but doesn't seem to mind
<lool> persia: Comments?
<davidm> lool, I think it's a good use of EC2 resources, I was exploring something like this with some friends that do ARM stuff
<NCommander> lool, well, I know it will work for ARMv5 rebuilds
<StevenK> lool: Hm. Unsure.
<NCommander> Its just ARMv6 I'm unsure about.
<persia> I'm intrigued by the idea, but think it needs a bunch of research on emulation and fear that might interfere with bugfixing in the next couple months.
<lool> StevenK: I think it's the good time to raise your concerns
<StevenK> lool: I have concerns about supportability, but not building it
<lool> persia: I agree, I think it should be low priority, unless we consider it critical to test flags for jaunty+1 in time
<NCommander> persia, it won't be very difficult to setup to have it track the main archive.
<lool> StevenK: You mean supporting users which would like to build their packages?  indeed, that's a good point
<persia> StevenK, Supportability of the vm-builder script that produces the ec2 image, or supportability of the results of having such a tool available?
<NCommander> You'd setup wanna-build to track the main archive, and then make sure sbuild is uploading full packages to your source archive. (or use rebuildd)
<StevenK> Supportability of an archive if we publish it
<persia> NCommander, keeping persistent tracking in EC2 gets expensive quickly.
<NCommander> persia, we could run wanna-build and the archive software outside of EC2
<persia> Oh.  I'd be against even hinting at support for any result packages, whether standalone or in an archive.
<lool> StevenK: Oh we can discuss what we do with the archives later on
<lool> Right it's no support, internal use only
<StevenK> Fair enough. No other concerns I can think of
 * NCommander is +1 for the no support one
<lool> Ok; I guess it needs spec-ing then
<lool> I'll start a rough draft of my initial ideas and call for comments
<lool> persia: please [action] me on that
<persia> [action] lool to spec ec2-package-builder for jaunty+1
<MootBot> ACTION received:  lool to spec ec2-package-builder for jaunty+1
<lool> davidm: You wanted to bring up a last topic
<persia> Wait!
<persia> That's roadmap.
<persia> Next is agenda items.
<persia> Nothing shown.
<persia> So...
<persia> [topic] any other business
<MootBot> New Topic:  any other business
<davidm> I  was wondering if we have discussed the softbootloader with cjwatson  recently?  I know we somewhat stalled on this
<lool> persia: Exactly :-)
<persia> [topic] arm-softboot-loader
<MootBot> New Topic:  arm-softboot-loader
<davidm> It may be less critical but I hate to lose track and complete headway on it.
<ogra> davidm, do we have a requirement for it in jaunty ?
<persia> lool, I just want the mootbot logs organised to make writing the minutes easier :)
<ogra> i dont thnk we need it for anything yet
<lool> cjwatson: I think we discussed this spec in its infancy with you; in the mean time we had a fair number of implementation ideas; also there are some concerns with the kboot/petitboot implementations; finally there's the concern of boot time
<NCommander> We don't even have the necessary kernel support (kexec) we wanted for the designs we were thinking of.
<davidm> ogra, it's getting decreasing small for the need, but I don't want to lose track and research, we will need for J+1 for sure
<lool> cjwatson: If you're around, do you think we could discuss the spec with you in the next week?
<ogra> davidm, yes, so it deserves UDS discussion and pre-UDS research
<lool> NCommander: Do we have a bug for that?
<persia> lool, We have a spec for it.
<ogra> which is why NCommander shold redo the spec with that in mind
 * NCommander searches
<ogra> *should
<lool> persia: I think kexec being broken warrants a bug
<persia> Oh, right.
<davidm> I just don't want to lose what we have done to date and I don't want to miss something
<NCommander> I remember filing one
<ogra> so we can have a UDS discussion based on the research data
<NCommander> But it may have just been upstream, and not in LP
<lool> NCommander: If you don't find it, please file one
<NCommander> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/319240
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 319240 in linux "kexec broken on ARM" [Undecided,Fix committed]
 * NCommander resets that back to Triaged
<NCommander> That was my first stab at a patch, which only fixed it on QEMU due to emulator quarks.
<lool> NCommander: You confirm it's broken even in 2.6.28/jaunty/qemu?
<NCommander> yeah
 * ogra would still like to know if it fails with the packages kexec
<NCommander> and in 2.6.29
<ogra> *packaged
<NCommander> ogra, I tried it with every version I can find
<lool> NCommander: And same test case passes on x86?
<NCommander> Its a kernel issue :-/, the kexec syscall busted
<ogra> you built it yourself from upstream source, right ?
<NCommander> ogra, yes
<ogra> so i'd like to see a test of the packaged version that has ubuntu patches and all
<lool> I'd like to know whether it works on x86 in qemu
<ogra> note that kexec is used by the kernel team for debugging ourposes
<NCommander> lool, I remember testing it, but the Ubuntu kernel ships with kexec disabled on x86 by default
<NCommander> I can test it in QEMU
<ogra> that cant be
<NCommander> ogra, we use the crash kernel support, but the reboot bit
<persia> We're up on time.  can details continue in another channel for this (maybe #ubuntu-arm)?
<lool> persia: Mind actionning NCommander a coulple of times?
<NCommander> SUre, no problem
<lool> I think that's going to be good enough for today
<persia> [action] ncommander to test packages kexec
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ncommander to test packages kexec
<ogra> please talk to the kernel team about it, i know kexec is used a lot there
<lool> cjwatson: Perhaps we can setup a meeting this week between mobile team and you to discuss the kexec path?
 * NCommander talked about this with them at the last sprint
<persia> [action] NCommander to test with x86
<MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to test with x86
<lool> persia: thanks for chairing
<ogra> yeah, thanks
<persia> [topic] any other business
<MootBot> New Topic:  any other business
<davidm> thanks persia
<persia> If you have some, please put it on the agenda for the next meeting, we're out of time.
<persia> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 07:02.
<ogra> and move to -arm or -mobile for further discussion :)
<persia> minutes should be up in ~20 minutes
 * GrueMaster crawls back to his cave.
<cjwatson> lool: I guess so
<cjwatson> lool: it was really just a random idea from me though; I'm not convinced I'm an expert
<lool> cjwatson: Ok; then I'd like to quickly update you on a couple things in this spec: a) kboot/petitboot turned out to not be in a very good shape according to Michael b) Oliver implemented a prototype boot menu in an initramfs shell function c) we discovered there were a bunch of boot menu projects for beagleboard
<lool> cjwatson: I personally concluded we didn't want a), I didn't like the shell-based terminal tricks of b) (kind of a shell ncurses implementation), so I would personally recommend c), and falling back to b) if we really want to continue with a kexec route
<lool> cjwatson: Does that make sense?
<ogra> b) doesnt need to be like that
<ogra> it can be way smaller and less gui
<cjwatson> lool: sounds fine to me modulo ogra's comments
<persia> Who's here for the Java Meeting?
<ttx> o/ <- the hacker formerly known as Koon
<persia> Ah.  Saving electrons, I see :)
<ttx> compression is good.
<persia> Anyone else?
<ttx> apparently not.
<persia> ttx, Anything exciting, or shall we skip this week, and try again next week?
<ttx> I've started to write https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/LibraryPackaging
<ttx> based on my recent experiences
<persia> Oh, that's exciting.  Are you planning to add it to the KnowledgeBase when you're done?
<ttx> once it's done we could make a list of wanted packages
<persia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/KnowledgeBase
<ttx> yes, I need to clean up the other howtos that are referenced from there
<ttx> The idea is to more aggressively use java libraries as example packages for DevWeeks or other open forums
<ttx> and hopefully gather some momentum on that.
<persia> Excellent idea.  I'm currently working on an application package: I'll document my steps, and try to have a mirror doc to match.
<ttx> One of the tricks is to make sure we don't duplicate effort w/ debian
<ttx> and make sure our work is pushed back there
<ttx> On that subject, tomcat6 recently made it back to Debian
<ttx> thanks to Torsten Werner that took our current Jaunty version up there
<persia> Nifty.
<ttx> So if we make a wishlist,we'll make sure it's communicated to the appropriate people in debian-java
<persia> slytherin is often a good person for that, sitting in both camps (and with commit access to pkg-java on alioth).
<persia> If you're expecting to handle a bunch of libraries, you might want to take that path as well.
<ttx> I'm not expecting to do a lot of them. I want to empower several others to do it though.
<ttx> mentoring, documentation
<ttx> sounds like a better long-term solution.
<persia> Then it's not so essential to have commit :)
<persia> So, until next week then?
<ttx> anyway, I expect slytherin to participate into validating https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/LibraryPackaging
<ttx> yes, nothing else on my front
<persia> OK.  I7ve nothing.  See you on the 5th.
<ttx> ok
<nixternal> 10 Minute Notice - Ubuntu MOTU Council Meeting - #ubuntu-meeting
<nixternal> more like 8 now :p
<RainCT> heh
 * persia polishes the MootBot controls
 * vorian read that as persia polishes his boots
<persia> That too :)
<persia> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:00. The chair is persia.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<persia> So, welcome everyone to the first MOTU Council applications processing meeting.
<persia> Err, second ever.
<persia> According to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Council/Meeting we have only one application to process today
<persia> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Council/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Council/Meeting
<persia> So, first up, do we have quorum?
 * geser is here
<persia> nixternal, ?  soren ?
<nixternal> yo yo
<nixternal> that would be a quorum
<persia> Right.
<persia> Well, then.
<persia> [topic] Core Developer Application for Steve Stalcup (vorian)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Core Developer Application for Steve Stalcup (vorian)
<persia> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StephenStalcup/CoreDeveloperApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StephenStalcup/CoreDeveloperApplication
 * vorian waves
<persia> vorian, You mention you're planning on a bunch more Kubuntu uploads.  Do you anticipate any changes in the content of these uploads if you're a core-dev, rather than working through sponsors?
<vorian> persia: we are in the process of waiting for KDE 4.2.1 to be pushed out to packagers
<vorian> this round, I will need to work throught sponosrs again
<vorian> for sanity sake, if i were a core dev - i would have a trusted friend look over my changes
<vorian> the only changes with this next release will be bug-fixes
<vorian> we simply remove patches, and make sure the upstream changes are sane
<nixternal> sorry, was reading through his app
<nixternal> I know Steve's history here in buntuland (very much like candyland I must say)
<nixternal> I am sure I sponsored some stuff back in the day, as a matter of fact I know I did...I remember him going REVU crazy and bugging the heck out of me with REVUs a while back
<vorian> yeah, sorry about that :)
<nixternal> he is quick, good, and exactly what we need, we not only being the Kubuntu community, but also the entire Ubuntu community
<nixternal> heh, I was reading ScottK-desktop's feedback and misread "ice storm" as "ice cream"...
<vorian> that ice storm was not fun at all ...
<nixternal> vorian: have you followed the "Archive Reorganization" topic at all?
<vorian> nixternal: somewhat, not enough to have an informed opinion
<nixternal> sounds like me :p
<vorian> :)
<vorian> I understand that the archive will be mostly open, save a handful of extremely core packages
<nixternal> what other plans do you have for the server team? do you see yourself working more with them and doing something 50/50 between them and Kubuntu? or will you be doing a majority of your work with Kubuntu/KDE packages and a package here-or-there with the server team?
<nixternal> I have always wanted to hack on the kernel, but I don't think Ben C. will let me :p
<vorian> That is a great question
<nixternal> well then, I expect a great answer :)
<vorian> The server side of things for me is _very_ new, and I was reluctant to even add it to my application
<vorian> I asked ScottK how I could test the waters out, and he pointed me in the right direction
<nixternal> groovy...how did you like the waters?
<vorian> it's been great so far
<vorian> I've been working on getting rid of old libdb cruft
<vorian> and as of Monday, libdb4.5 is history \o/
<vorian> I am hitting a snag with libdb4.4 - and trying to seek a solution with the debian pkg-lustre-maintainers
<nixternal> ya, libdb wasn't any fun for me either, as I did pretty much the same thing you did, just with CentOS and my last job
<vorian> not fun at all
<nixternal> groovy, how has working with the debian devs been for you?
<vorian> I would like to do 50/50, but with the lack of packagers at the moment, it's going to be hard
<nixternal> one thing I tend to enjoy the most is working with the Debian peeps when I get a chance...especially the Qt/KDE team, who are some packaging monsters
<vorian> I have taken on the challenge of hosting our release building tools (some secret/some not)
<nixternal> ahh ya, with the temporary (I hope) loss of Harald, I know it is going to be tough
<vorian> he set us up with a great foundation
<nixternal> who is "our" (I Know, but nobody else may not)
<nixternal> and why are some secret?
<vorian> although, I'm on my 3rd ruby book
<nixternal> I won't hold that against you
<vorian> ours refers to kubuntu ninja's
<vorian> ninjas are the kubuntu team of packagers who do KDE release updates
<nixternal> what all do these building tools do? refresh my memory because I have been an absent ninja for almost a year
<vorian> ok
<vorian> they are dubbed 'batscripts' (written in ruby)
<nixternal> oh man, I do not want to learn ruby...it isn't in my planned "learn 2 languages this year" routine...for some reason, I have become a ruby hater
<vorian> actually, let me get the bzr link for that
<nixternal> why are some of them secret?
<vorian> There are secrets because KDE allows packagers to have release ready versions a week or so before they are released to the public
<vorian> This allows us to get better quality packages
<nixternal> ahh, so I am guessing the secret sauce here has information on how to get the packager releases?
<vorian> what secret sauce?
<nixternal> the secret scripts :p
<nixternal> you said some of the batscripts are secret
<vorian> they are published
<persia> Is it that the scripts are secret, or the credentials for early access?
<vorian> bzr branch lp:kubuntu-dev-tools
<vorian> the scripts are not secret, just the tarballs
<nixternal> gotcha
<nixternal> well, I am ready to vote, persia? geser? soren?
<vorian> sorry for any confusion
<geser> one question
<vorian> fire away :)
<geser> Harald mentioned in his comment a messed kde4libs update. What went wrong and how do you want to prevent it from happening in the future?
<vorian> as a rule, we tend to follow Debian packaging methods
<vorian> kdelibs is vital to the entire KDE stack.  With the last release - I got my directories reversed (an un-noticed merge to say)
<vorian> from that time, I have made it a habbit of creating a new clean directory, and diffing the two
<vorian> If I would have done that, I would have caught the mistake - it was only a coulple of build-dep versions, but caused all other packages to fail due to dependancy issues
<vorian> I also will stay away from merging until after releases are complete, and published :)
<geser> persia, soren: your turn with questions
<persia> vorian: In your application you mention your pbuilder foo: have you considered merging it with ubuntu-dev tools?  Why or why not?
<persia> Or, more specifically, If so, why didn't you, and if not, why not?
<vorian> persia: it's not an application per se, it's more of a guide to set up multiple pbuilders
<vorian> I wouldn't mind adding a few things to the Pbuilder wiki page
<persia> Yes.  That's why I ask :)  Some of it looks remarkably like pbuilder-dist
<nixternal> well add it, I need to set up pbuilder on my new machine here
<vorian> I will do it today :)
<persia> So, the answer is: you didn't consider it, and that was because you hadn't thought of it?
<RainCT> vorian, nixternal: Are you aware of pbuilder-dist (rewritten version in jaunty and intrepid-backports)? If there's some use case for which it doesn't work please tell me.
<nixternal> RainCT: yes I am...I am lazy and just want a simple copy paste pbuilderrc :p
<vorian> persia: I hadn't thought of it really
<persia> vorian, Right.  So the second part of the question: as a core-dev, you'll be uploading to the core part of Ubuntu, on which everything relies.  What strategies to you expect to employ to avoid similar sorts of duplication in the future?
<vorian> As for packages, I will continue to triple check those I am confident of
<vorian> when I have the slightest doubt, I will consult with the prior uploader - or last person to commit a change
<vorian> with something like the pbuilder-foo page, that was mostly documentation for myself - and those I was trying to help create multiple pbuilders.
<vorian> I'll just make note of changing wiki pages as I come across something that may be done better/or differently
<vorian> I shy away from changing any of the major wiki pages, which is something I can correct
<persia> Well, there's a balance of course :)
<vorian> yes :)
<persia> soren, seems to have been idle for an improbable number of minutes.  geser, nixternal, ready for voting?
<nixternal> yes
<geser> yes
<persia> [vote] Recommend Steve Stalcup (vorian) to become an ubuntu-core-dev
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Recommend Steve Stalcup (vorian) to become an ubuntu-core-dev.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<persia> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from persia. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<geser> persia: just didn't want to disturb your questioning :)
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<nixternal> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nixternal. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<vorian> Thanks persia geser, and nixternal :)
<persia> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 3
<johnc4510> vorian: congrats!! w00t
<RainCT> vorian: congrats! :)
<persia> vorian, so, we'll recommend you to the TB, who will surely have an even more extreme set of questions for you to answer :)
<RainCT> vorian: and check out pbuilder-dist! ;)
<vorian> :)
<persia> So, that completes our scheduled topics.
<vorian> thanks RainCT and johnc4510 :)
<persia> Anyone have anything special they want to raise before we adjourn?
<nixternal> vorian: congrats on this leg of your journey, you just wait until mdz, cjwatson, and others grill you :D
<vorian> ohmy
<vorian> thanks :)
<nixternal> nothing here persia
<persia> Right.  Meeting adjourned then.
<persia> #endmeeing
<nixternal> you have to do it like endvote iirc
<nixternal> persia: [endmeeting] ?
<persia> [endmeeting]
<persia> No, it7s #endmeeting.  I just have to include the letter 't'
<persia> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:56.
<persia> See :)
<nixternal> ahh, you just can't speel :p
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-02-27
<LaserJock> anybody here for Edubuntu?
<sbalneav> Boo
<LaserJock> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:33. The chair is LaserJock.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<LaserJock> just in case we need to remember something
<LaserJock> ok, so let's do status report real quick
<LaserJock> I'm gonna try to send out a "State of the Release" email today with more detail
<LaserJock> * yesterday mvo got the changes for Add/Remove that we wanted for the app bundle spec
<LaserJock> this means that our "app bundles" will always sort at the top of the list in Add/Remove
<LaserJock> we also have inital metapackages for the bundles done
<LaserJock> you can bzr branch lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/edubuntu.jaunty/ to get the seeds
<LaserJock> the files should be fairly self-explanitory
<LaserJock> I've also done some tweaking of the desktop seeds
<LaserJock> so we have desktop-gome (for edubuntu-desktop) and desktop-kde (for edubuntu-desktop-kde)
<LaserJock> sortly I'll transiton those to dep on the app bundles
<LaserJock> *shortly
<LaserJock> so edubuntu-desktop, for instance, will be app bundles + misc gnome'ish tools
<LaserJock> and edubuntu-desktop-kde will be app bundles + mis kde'ish tools
<LaserJock> so the app bundles (preschool, primary, secondary, tertiary) become the core
<LaserJock> make sense?
<highvoltage> yep
<sbalneav> Yes
<highvoltage> getting it via bzr now to get more familiar with them fwiw
<LaserJock> what we need to do is finalize the app bundles
<LaserJock> I just took a quick stab on figuring out what package would be appropriate
<LaserJock> but I'm not a "real" educator so I'd like feedback there
<LaserJock> next thing is the Universe app bundles
<highvoltage> LaserJock: are those lists up on a wiki page somewhere?
<LaserJock> highvoltage: nope
<LaserJock> highvoltage: RichEd had a spreadsheet with a bunch of apps cateogrized by level
<LaserJock> it's attached to the app bundle spec
<LaserJock> *but* it's outdated, I think it's based on Hardy
<highvoltage> hmm, it would be nice to have it on the wiki for educators to see. I don't think we can expect them to bzr it out for feedback
<LaserJock> for the Main ones that's not a problem, we know what's in there
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I'm looking at it now, don't you think ktuberling can also go into preschool?
<LaserJock> highvoltage: I sent the info to the mailing list
<LaserJock> highvoltage: nobody responded
<LaserJock> I can try a wiki page to see if that'll help
<highvoltage> LaserJock: sorry, I must have missed it through everything. I can put it up on the wiki too?
<LaserJock> the bigger issue is the Universe app bundles
<LaserJock> highvoltage: go for it
<LaserJock> I need 1) a good naming scheme and 2) a list of Universe apps we think are important for educators
<LaserJock> for 1) I've been really thrashing around with this but haven't really fell in love with anything
<highvoltage> os that ship-addon?
<highvoltage> oh, it's not
<LaserJock> highvoltage: hmm?
<LaserJock> ship-addon is what goes on the Ubuntu Education Cd
<LaserJock> so far the biggest support has been for ubuntu-edu-*-extras
<LaserJock> to be consistent with the Main app bundles (which are ubuntu-edu-*) and to show that we consider these useful extras but not our core apps
<LaserJock> one thing I wanted to be sure of is to make it future-proof regarding the Archive Reogranization
<highvoltage> future-proof in terms of naming I assume?
<LaserJock> yeah
<highvoltage> that's a toughie
<LaserJock> well, if the universe/main split goes away
<LaserJock> I'm guessing we'll want to have a core and extras set of packages still
<highvoltage> ok, so the difference between those 'universe' apps and the ones that are currently shipped is that the universe ones won't be shipped
<LaserJock> and won't be "fully supported by Canonical and the Edubuntu community"
<highvoltage> so how about something like edubuntu-nonshipped-primary or something that implies that it's not shipped on the disc?
<highvoltage> that's a lot to try and imply in the length of a package name :)
<highvoltage> (but I understand the need for it)
<LaserJock> well, we do have package descriptions
<highvoltage> right
<LaserJock> I liked either ubuntu-edu-*-extras
<LaserJock> or edubuntu-*
<LaserJock> edubuntu-* get's us into trouble because there's confusion as to what is edubuntu and what is ubuntu-edu
<LaserJock> btw, we've removed debian-edu from Jaunty
<LaserJock> so we won't have the "education" namespace clutter
<highvoltage> ok
<LaserJock> so what are your opinions?
<highvoltage> about edubuntu and ubuntu-edu confusion...
<highvoltage> I'm confused
<LaserJock> :-)
<highvoltage> how does edubuntu-* cause trouble? is it supposed to be ubuntu-edu-*?
<LaserJock> the app bundles in main are called ubuntu-edu-*
<LaserJock> but they're the core of what we'd call Edubuntu
<highvoltage> ah, that must be new in jaunty then
<LaserJock> if we then add in packages that are called edubuntu-*, but are the community-supported "extras" it's confusing
<LaserJock> yes, it is
<highvoltage> quite honestly I think the way that it's all branded is really terribly confusing
<LaserJock> I know, but we've tried to minimze that
<LaserJock> Canonical wants "Ubuntu Education" so that's what we're doing
<LaserJock> the only way to make it less confusing is to ditch "Edubuntu" altogether, which would have pretty consquences, IMO
<LaserJock> *pretty big
<highvoltage> yep
<LaserJock> so does ubuntu-edu-*-extras sound OK?
<LaserJock> do you think it's misleading at all?
<LaserJock> should we just ditch the concept altogether and find a different way to get educators to Universe software?
<highvoltage> it's probably as good as you'll get it
<highvoltage> LaserJock: it's probably a good start. if someone doesn't like it or they want to make suggestions they should be encouraged to file bugs
<highvoltage> that way it will at least improve from release to release
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> I just don't want to create a set of package that we then rename/remove in a release or two
<highvoltage> hmm
<LaserJock> a big problem for us already is how constantly we're changing
<LaserJock> users have no idea what "Edubuntu" is
<LaserJock> heck , we don't even know what it is :-)
<highvoltage> I guess that's why we want RichEd here too
<LaserJock> for the rest of Jaunty
<LaserJock> we have bugs
<LaserJock> we need to fix them :-)
<sbalneav> Workin' on Sabayon now.
<sbalneav> Could we classify the top 10 bugs we'd like to fix?  So I can have a target?
<LaserJock> I was wanting to do an Edubuntu Hug Day
<LaserJock> which would would do something like that
<LaserJock> have target bugs rather than just "heah, fix these 200+ bugs"
<LaserJock> thanks to moquist we have moodle 1.9.4 in Jaunty
<highvoltage> \o/
<LaserJock> it still needs some work but it fixes 24 CVEs, 20 Debian bugs, and 7 Ubuntu bugs
<LaserJock> huge improvement
<sbalneav> I took the day off to work on some bugs, but I'd be up for another bug day
<LaserJock> we can work today
<LaserJock> and then at the end of today get a list for the next bug day that I'll announce the heck out of
<LaserJock> sbalneav: sound OK?
<LaserJock> ok, before we go morgs sent me a Sugar Team status update:
<LaserJock> * All the platform components have been updated to the Sugar
<LaserJock> FeatureFreeze versions before the Jaunty Feature Freeze. However, they
<LaserJock> are now out of date. The Sugar final 0.84.0 release is on Tuesday 3
<LaserJock> March and I'll submit bug reports to upload that then. I've logged
<LaserJock> bugs for an intermediate release, but I have a problem building the
<LaserJock> main sugar component successfully - a problem installing the gconf
<LaserJock> schemas.
<LaserJock> * The abiword libabiword bug is still open - I haven't had time to
<LaserJock> address the latest criticism on my patch.
<LaserJock> * The remaining components which are really out of date are
<LaserJock> activities, on which nothing else depends. I'll file bug reports
<LaserJock> asking for FFEs to get them uploaded once the platform is up to date.
<LaserJock> sorry for the paste spam there
<sbalneav> OK
<LaserJock> so they still need to get libabiword worked out
<LaserJock> ok, well, any other issues?
<LaserJock> like I said before, I'll be sending out an email with more detail on what things need to get done before release
<LaserJock> as you guys now, I'm about out of *buntu-time for Jaunty so I'll be pointing out what items I'll take care of
<LaserJock> and the rest will have to depend on people stepping up a little to make sure things get done
<LaserJock> going once ..
<LaserJock> going twice ..
<LaserJock> ok, we're done
<LaserJock> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:20.
<LaserJock> back over the wall to #edubuntu
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-02-28
<danmery-segp> hello
<xq> heya
<effie_jayx> hey locoteams meeting in  #ubuntu-locoteams
<danmery-segp> hello
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-03-01
<kees> jdstrand, mdeslaur: ready for a quick meeting?
<jdstrand> o/
<mdeslaur> yep!
<kees> okay
<kees> let's see, I'm on triage this week
<kees> and I'll try to snag a few low-hanging updates, but I've not checked the list yet.
<kees> I made progress on testing the symlink protection kernel patch last week
<kees> that's it from me.  jdstrand, you're up!
<jdstrand> this is the symlink in a sticky dir where you are not the owner patch?
<jdstrand> kees: ^
<kees> yeah
<jdstrand> cool
<kees> http://people.canonical.com/~kees/0001-symlink-protection-logic.patch
<jdstrand> so I am on community work this week
<kees> ignore the changelog; that was just a place-holder
<jdstrand> a few moin CVEs crept in last week, so I plan to work on it
<jdstrand> I plan to follow-up with cemc on the clamav/hardy update to get that out this week
<jdstrand> (he is doing testing since it is in universe)
<jdstrand> if I have time, I'll try to get to firefox/apparmor refactoring, which I didn't get to last week
<jdstrand> that is it from me
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm in the happy place this week
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: do you feel happy?
<mdeslaur> I plan on looking over the new gnome-screensaver CVEs and have an embargoed update to test
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: sometimes :)
<jjohansen> and that is a happy place?
<mdeslaur> heh
<mdeslaur> I will also go down the list
<mdeslaur> so, I have a couple of other things I want to talk about
 * jdstrand had one too
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: you go first
<jdstrand> k
<jdstrand> kees: I didn't follow the TB meeting too closely-- where do we stand on representatives from the various teams attending our meetings and generally being aware of security issues in their packages?
<kees> jdstrand: I haven't sent any email yet; ran out of time on friday.  I want to make a general proposal, and we'll see how that flies.
<jdstrand> cool
<kees> basically, TB wants to see a proposal, have it discussed in email, language adjusted, etc.
 * jdstrand nods
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: that's it from me
<mdeslaur> okay, so cr3 sent us the review request
<mdeslaur> I'll take a look, and kees, will you take a look also?
<mdeslaur> kees: you're the man with the insecure code detector built in :)
<kees> yup, totally.  he was asking about how to manage some fifo work.
<mdeslaur> ok, second thing is webkit...there's a zillion CVEs in it, and I wanted to start to look at them again, but then remembered that in the firefox backporting work, a newer webkit will probably get pushed to the stable releases
<kees> err, totally help with audit; not sure I've got that detector built-in.  ;)
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: oh? I didn't realize that was part of it. is it getting a microrelease exception?
<kees> mdeslaur: correct; though it doesn't change KDE's use of it.
<kees> wait, I'm suddenly confused
<kees> firefox -> webkit?
<mdeslaur> okay, let me explain
<jdstrand> kees: no, but stuff in stable releases has to be migrated to webkit to get rid of xulrunner, iiuc
<mdeslaur> in order to get rid of xulrunner, a bunch of applications in previous stable releases will get updated to versions that support webkit
<mdeslaur> so, a recent webkit will probably get introduced to stable releases
<mdeslaur> BUT, that's probably a one-time only thing
<kees> ah, fun.
<mdeslaur> what's not so good, is now webkit will probably need to be supported in hardy where it wasn't before
<mdeslaur> I think we should call a meeting with ccheney and discuss all of this
<kees> is webkit micro-release sane?
<mdeslaur> kees: and yes, it won't fix the embedded webkit in kde and qt4
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: it sounds like hardy should get whatever webkit is in lucid then-- that doesn't sound too bad from a support perspective
<jdstrand> (ie, it doesn't add significant work for us)
<mdeslaur> yeah, it will simplify things for the time being, as all our releases will probably have the same webkit version
<kees> jdstrand: yeah, true
<mdeslaur> the problem with webkit, is there are _no_ releases...it's a repository
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: so your question is really-- should you fix webkit now, or wait
<kees> wait, what?  no releases?
 * kees holds his face
<mdeslaur> kees: webkit doesn't have any releases AFAIK
<mdeslaur> so, I don't know how to add a microrelease exception for that
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: I thought they had some concept of api (or was it abi?) though? doesn't that imply releases?
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: yeah, I think they went from 1.0 to 1.1 at some point
 * jdstrand wonders why all the web stuff has to be so complicated
<mdeslaur> let me investigate further
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: to answer what I think your question was regarding updating webkit-- I think we need more info from ccheney
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: yes, I propose we schedule a meeting with him to see what he expects to happen
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: if it is going to be relatively soon, maybe we can get away with fixing the most serious security issues and wait
<jdstrand> for the transition
<kees> I think keeping lucid and hardy in sync wrt webkit is a really good idea, if we end up having a supported webkit in hardy, though.
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: that's what we would need to figure out
 * jdstrand nods
<jdstrand> maybe ccheney is available now...
 * jdstrand goes to look
<mdeslaur> so, webkitgtk has a "stable" branch: http://gitorious.org/webkitgtk/stable
<mdeslaur> but, we're way past it in lucid :P
<jdstrand> hmmm
<jdstrand> I asked for ccheney to join us (in #ubuntu-devel)
<jdstrand> he's not responded yet, so maybe wait a few more minutes?
<mdeslaur> We _need_ to meet with the webkitgtk people and try and discuss webkit security
<ccheney> hello
<jdstrand> hey ccheney :)
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: fire away
<mdeslaur> ccheney: rat-tat-tat-tat
<mdeslaur> ccheney: hi!
<mdeslaur> ccheney: we are discussing the large number of open CVEs that we have in webkit in our stable releases
<ccheney> hi
<mdeslaur> ccheney: and, I know you're doing some work for the firefox backporting stuff
<ccheney> yea
<mdeslaur> ccheney: what's the plan regarding webkit? are you backporting a current webkit to our older stable releases?
<ccheney> i am backporting the webkit from karmic to hardy
<ccheney> not sure about any other plans other than that, asac probably knows more about the details of the rest of the plan
<mdeslaur> ccheney: so, since intrepid will be eol in a month, you're not doing anything there, right?
<ccheney> webkit is being backported primarily to allow backporting of epiphany-browser using webkit to hardy so we can drop its xulrunner dep
<ccheney> afaik i am not working on intrepid :)
<mdeslaur> ccheney: backporting webkit to hardy means you're updating the relevant libs also? like libsoup?
<ccheney> mdeslaur: yea its a fairly big project, currently we are modifying libsoup to include the glib/gtk changes required
<ccheney> mdeslaur: also requires libproxy which didn't exist in hardy, etc
<mdeslaur> oh! so you're not updating the libsoup version, you're backporting the required stuff to the libsoup that is already in hardy?
<mdeslaur> ccheney: do you have a repo somewhere that has the work in progress in it?
<ccheney> not at the moment it keeps changing so much that putting it in a repo would cause version numbers to rapidly increase
<ccheney> i've stuck snapshots of the packages at people.canonical.com/~ccheney
<ccheney> though they are a little out of date i think
<jdstrand> ccheney: do you have a bllpark idea of when the new webkit will hit hardy?
<ccheney> probably within a few weeks
<ccheney> i'm now working on epiphany itself so hopefully sooner than that, but at least within a few weeks timeframe at most
<jdstrand> ccheney: do you know if the webkit in lucid is going to stay 1.1.21?
<ccheney> no idea
<ccheney> the extent of what i know is that i am responsible for getting epiphany from karmic backported to hardy including all deps, and the info on the blueprint for the xulrunner security stuff
<kees> ccheney: we were thinking it might make sense to have the lucid webkit be the version in hardy (so it's easier to track fixes across both releases)
<jdstrand> ccheney: I ask because since the webkit in hardy is in universe, pulling a webkit into main on hardy will require (not insignificant) resources for our team for the hardy release. ideally, lucid and hardy would have the same version
<mdeslaur> ccheney: so, normally karmic's webkit needs libsoup 2.27.91, and we have 2.4 in hardy...you've backported all the relevant code to libsoup2.4?
<ccheney> mdeslaur: yea
<mdeslaur> kees, jdstrand: well, the webkit in karmic is the stable branch of webkit...it may be better than lucid's
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: I see it as 1.1.15.2
<ccheney> lucid is still a moving target which was why i was told to backport karmic's i assume :)
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: is 1.1 considered stable?
<jdstrand> ccheney: sure
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: 1.1.15 is the stable branch: http://gitorious.org/webkitgtk/stable
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: although, I don't know for how long...
<jdstrand> right, I see that now...
<mdeslaur> it kind of looks dead
<jdstrand> yeah, there has been, oh I don't know, 1 or 2 CVEs since last november
<mdeslaur> hehe
<ccheney> luckily hardy only needs support for one more year :)
<mdeslaur> ccheney: so, are you doing anything for jaunty, or is that already okay?
<jdstrand> kees, mdeslaur: maybe someone from our team should at least bring up the idea of lucid's webkit for hardy
<ccheney> mdeslaur: i don't know that status for jaunty, sorry
<jdstrand> kees: ccheney brings up a good point on hardy-- webkit isn't going to get dragged into 5 year support is it?
<ccheney> jdstrand: getting lucid's webkit into hardy should be doable once lucid's version is frozen
<ccheney> jdstrand: you just have to ask the right people i suppose (rick spencer)
<kees> jdstrand: so far, no
<mdeslaur> ccheney: do you have a list of applications that are going to use webkit in hardy?
<ccheney> mdeslaur: i think its just epiphany but you would have to ask asac to be certain
<mdeslaur> ccheney: you're just working on epiphany?
<ccheney> yes
<ccheney> so aiui we are backporting epiphany because it is officially supported for hardy and uses xulrunner in a manner that is at risk for security, other things that use xulrunner that aren't as exposed still will use it (aiui)
<jdstrand> that is consistent with my understanding as well
<ccheney> so if there are other supported browsers that use xulrunner (none that i know of other than firefox) we would probably need to do something about those too
<jdstrand> if a xul-running app isn't exposed to the internet, we won't worry about the CVE
<mdeslaur> so, we'll have an outdated xulrunner that will live forever in hardy with stuff using it
<jdstrand> (and therefore migrating it to webkit)
<ccheney> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/Lucid/FirefoxNewSupportModel/xulrunner-list bottom of the page is most pertient
<jdstrand> liferea
<ccheney> looks like jaunty might need to be ported too if i am reading the chart correctly
<mdeslaur> ccheney: wait a sec...is the newer webkit you're backporting to hardy _replacing_ the old webkit or will it be _added_?
<ccheney> it will be renamed somehow to be in addition
<kees> oh nasty
<ccheney> i'm still working on getting it working at all, then will work on cleaning up from packaging standpoint
<kees> can't we replace the webkit in hardy instead?
<ccheney> aiui the old webkit and new one aren't abi compatible, maybe not even api (?)
<ccheney> but i may be misinformed
<mdeslaur> ccheney: I was under the impression webkit 1.1 also built a 1.0 library for compatibility
<ccheney> all i see is a libwebkit-1.0-2 but it might be in there
<ccheney> asac: 12:55 < mdeslaur> ccheney: I was under the impression webkit 1.1 also built a  1.0 library for compatibility
<ccheney> asac: do you know if webkit from karmic can fully replace webkit in hardy?
<mdeslaur> I may be very wrong on that one
<ccheney> mdeslaur: yea i don't see any other library in the package other than the package named one
<mdeslaur> yeah, me neither
<mdeslaur> wow, the name of the library in hardy is completely different from the current webkit
<ccheney> yea
<ccheney> was webkit supported in hardy, i'm not sure
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: is there more to discuss here or can we take this out of the meeting?
<ccheney> if not then only the new one will need to be
<jdstrand> ccheney: it was universe
<ccheney> ok
<mdeslaur> ccheney: thanks for all the info
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: that's it from mw
<mdeslaur> me
<ccheney> no problem, if anyone has more questions just msg me later :)
<jdstrand> ccheney: thanks!
<jdstrand> kees: anything else?
<jdstrand> alright then, meeting adjourned
<jdstrand> thanks!
<jdstrand> kees, mdeslaur: ^
<kees> yup, done.  thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-03-02
 * ogra waves
<czajkowski> ogra: morning :)
 * cooloney_ waves at ogra 
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 07:00. The chair is NCommander.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<NCommander> morning all
<ogra> wow, thats on the second
 * StevenK waits for the wiki to damn well less
<StevenK> *listen
 * ericm_ types to see if he's banned
<ogra> do we know if asac JamieBennett davidm or anmar will attend ?
<ogra> (i know its unlikely)
<NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20100302
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20100302
 * NCommander doesn't know
<GrueMaster> I thought davidm said no.
<NCommander> [topic] Action Item Review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action Item Review
<ogra> is everyone here ?
<ogra> (roll call would help)
<plars> yes
<NCommander> if your not here, say I
<GrueMaster> I
<persia> That's the right attitude :)
<NCommander> [topic] Roll Call
<MootBot> New Topic:  Roll Call
 * StevenK lounges back in his chair and throws spitballs at NCommander 
<persia> Roll calls imply we have a known set of attendees.
<ogra> with a straw ?
<StevenK> Possibly
<NCommander> persia: there's a semi-regular group that can be assumed to be here?
<jussi01> Im here! :D
<persia> Well, yeah.  Like jussi01 :)
 * GrueMaster runs to the just finished coffee pot for an intravenous injection.
 * ericm_ makes some noise
<plars> shh
<NCommander> asac, dyfet, JamieBennett, ericm_ping
<dyfet> *yawn*
<StevenK> Why do you need to ping ericm_ when he's been jumping up and down for minutes?
<NCommander> StevenK: I thought he made a slight noise just before I pressed enter :-P
<ogra> because he's michael :)
<ericm_> guess cooloney is also here
<ogra> anyway, sounds like we should get started
<NCommander> Everyone who has an Action Item has been pinged
<NCommander> [topic] Action Item Revier
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action Item Revier
<NCommander> I'll skip action items for non present people and c/o them
<NCommander> [topic] NCommander to link power management spec to dove bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander to link power management spec to dove bugs
<NCommander> Done
<ogra> really ?
<NCommander> [topic] GrueMaster to produce a daily report on image testing and add that to the weekly meeting page
<MootBot> New Topic:  GrueMaster to produce a daily report on image testing and add that to the weekly meeting page
 * persia notes that the action items may not be entirely complete, having been based on vague readings of logs rather than actual minutes or anything
<GrueMaster> c/o
<NCommander> ogra: yeah, I linked the spec to the bugs during the last meeting
<GrueMaster> Not really enough time to work and write about it.
<GrueMaster> on a daily basis.
<NCommander> [topic] ogra to produce a rootstock test plan
<MootBot> New Topic:  ogra to produce a rootstock test plan
<ogra> NCommander, the last time you touched the spec page was jan 4th
<plars> GrueMaster: if there's some way I can help, let me know
<NCommander> ogra: on Launchpad?
<ogra> NCommander, implemented and announced last meeting
<ogra> NCommander, yes
<NCommander> ogra: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/mobile-lucid-arm-per-soc-powermanagement - I see Dove bugs
<ogra> NCommander, there is a "link bug report" link on the spec page
<ogra> yes, the two i added ages ago
<NCommander> two, there are four on there
<ogra> the workitem was about the other bugs that were brought up last meeting
 * ogra wonders why thats not in the change history of the spec then if NCommander added them last week
<NCommander> ogra: LP bug? I don't think I've ever seen linking bugs in history now that I think of it
<ogra> hmm, seems you are right
<ogra> LP should notify about such changes
<ogra> anyway, feel free to ignore me then :)
<NCommander> [action] ogra to file a bug on LP not tracking bug links to blueprints or sending emails
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ogra to file a bug on LP not tracking bug links to blueprints or sending emails
<ogra> heh, thanks
<NCommander> ogra: all is forgiven :-)
<ogra> :)
<NCommander> ogra: so rootstock test plan?
<ogra> yes, announced last meeting
<ogra> i dont know why its on the list
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/RootstockTestplan
<ogra> (its also in my AR if you scroll down :) )
<NCommander> ogra: heh :-). Can I move on?
<ogra> yes
<ogra> and strike it please :)
<NCommander> [topic] NCommander to investigate KDE FTBFS issues.
<MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander to investigate KDE FTBFS issues.
<NCommander> The underlying problem is its broken.
<ogra> no, really ? :)
<NCommander> ogra: :-P
<NCommander> Someone going to have to sitdown with gdb and determine why smoke is going up in smoke with segfault
<persia> Did dropping smoke fix it?
<NCommander> persia: no one has implemented dropping smoke
<NCommander> persia: since bindings realy likes that package
<persia> I thought we agreed to do that at the last meeting.
<persia> Does dropping it just plain not work?
<NCommander> persia: I brought it up in kubuntu-dev, but I didn' tmake enough noise and failed to follow up
<persia> ACTION yourself again :p
<NCommander> [action] NCommander to investigate KDE FTBFS issues.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to investigate KDE FTBFS issues.
<persia> Having KDE working is essential for liquid (even if we're mostly stuck to lucid+1 stuff)
<NCommander> persia: I'm aware, but my spare cycles wer very limited last week
<NCommander> [topic] Team to add individual summaries to standing items before meetings
<MootBot> New Topic:  Team to add individual summaries to standing items before meetings
 * ogra managed this time \o/
<NCommander> wait
<NCommander> sorry, wrong action item
 * NCommander started reading from the wrong meeting page
 * NCommander is *not* awake this morning
<ogra> aha
<StevenK> You seem to be typing a lot for someone who is sleeping
<ogra> and i was wondering about the rootsdtock testplan
<NCommander> [topic] everyone to move work items not finished for alpha-3 to ubnutu-10.04-beta-1
<MootBot> New Topic:  everyone to move work items not finished for alpha-3 to ubnutu-10.04-beta-1
<ogra> StevenK, probably persia borrowed him his brain inerface and he is dreaming the meeting ?
<StevenK> Hah
 * persia really needs to figure out DKMS and get drivers in the archive for that
<NCommander> ogra: if I start dreaming about our IRC meetings, I have larger problems
<ogra> ++
<ogra> so are there any outstanding specs for the above ?
 * NCommander moved his
 * ogra knows his specs are up to date
<GrueMaster> Possibly lsb porting spec.
<persia> We should move that :)
 * persia goes to do so
<GrueMaster> Still working with Linux Foundation on it.
<NCommander> Any objection if I move on?
<GrueMaster> Yea.
<ogra> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-mobile-ubuntu-10.04-beta-1.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-mobile-ubuntu-10.04-beta-1.html
<ogra> (the link on the wiki still points to A3)
<NCommander> [topic] NCommander to create wiki page to track actions taken to evaluate ooo/uno issues
<MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander to create wiki page to track actions taken to evaluate ooo/uno issues
<ogra> where is it ?
<NCommander> ogra: my mind
<NCommander> Still have to do this although i did touch the LP bug with a better overview of the problem
<ogra> use persia's brain interface and dump it
<NCommander> ogra: I much rather use his brain interface to rm all memories involved to OOo's internals
<NCommander> [topic] StevenK and persia to ensure that xubuntu- ubuntu- images are not produced for armel anymore
<persia> If I might mention, the BCI 1) doesn't have working input drivers, and 2) is kinda slow for typing if you have working hands.
<MootBot> New Topic:  StevenK and persia to ensure that xubuntu- ubuntu- images are not produced for armel anymore
<persia> Done!
<ogra> that wont create a wikipage :)
<StevenK> Indeed
<persia> StevenK is good at that.
<ogra> yay
<ogra> ++
<persia> We now only build three images for armel: kubuntu-netbook, ubuntu-netbook, ubuntu-server
 * NCommander pictures StevenK's as a grim repear bringing death to these images
<StevenK> We now only build {k,}ubuntu-netbook and ubuntu-server
 * StevenK pulls out his hood and scythe
<NCommander> [topic] StevenK and persia to also get rid of kubuntu-desktop aka everything != server
<MootBot> New Topic:  StevenK and persia to also get rid of kubuntu-desktop aka everything != server
<StevenK> Like we said, done, damn it
<StevenK> :-P
<NCommander> [topic] everyone to try rootstock GUI once its in the archive
<MootBot> New Topic:  everyone to try rootstock GUI once its in the archive
 * NCommander failed :-/
<ogra> the good one isnt uploaded yet :)
<ogra> c/o
 * persia tried but not in the right test window.
<StevenK> Hah
<StevenK> We're all off the hook
<persia> Ah, good.  Then my last try was up-to-date :)
<ogra> i'll upload today or tomorrow
<NCommander> [topic] Standing Items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Standing Items
 * ogra is still trying to figure out why qemu hangs 
<NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-mobile.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-mobile.html
<NCommander> ogra: with mono or?
<StevenK> And then I'll have ogra poking me, I guess
<ogra> NCommander, nope
<NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-mobile-lucid-beta-1.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-mobile-lucid-beta-1.html
<NCommander> ogra: run qemu-arm in strace mode and see what syscall it hangs in and which arguments
<ogra> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-mobile-ubuntu-10.04-beta-1.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-mobile-ubuntu-10.04-beta-1.html
<ogra> (wrong link)
<ogra> NCommander, its qemu-system-arm
<ogra> qemu-arm is fine
<persia> There's a clear failure-to-update happening.
<NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-mobile-ubuntu-10.04-beta-1.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-mobile-ubuntu-10.04-beta-1.html
<ogra> the chart looks pretty bad
<NCommander> Ouch
<ogra> mainly jamie and asac's fault though
<ogra> i think the stuff to close the workitems is in the works
<plars> there are far fewer work items on it than there were for alpha 3 though
<NCommander> On our overall burn down chart for Lucid, we're looking kinda happy
<ogra> indeed
<ogra> yeah, but overall doesnt intrest the release team
<ogra> asac gets whacked on friday if we dont get it down a bit
<ogra> so anyone who can make it look better, please do :)
<NCommander> Anyone mind if I move on?
<ogra> go
<NCommander> [topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, ericm)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Status (cooloney, ericm)
<cooloney_> for imx51
<cooloney_> no much big change
<cooloney_> we just back ported ppoll patch into fsl-imx51
<cooloney_> and need some one to test it
<cooloney_> for USB bug, i think it is not fsl-imx51 specific
<cooloney_> it also affects x86 running lucid
<ogra> the regulator stuff is still open though
<ogra> didnt you merge the new BSP ?
<cooloney_> ogra: yeah, that patch broke my kernel
<cooloney_> ogra: a new BSP?
<cooloney_> 2010-02-16?
<ogra> yes
<ogra> its the last one for lucid
<ogra> their next release is planned for mid april iirc
<cooloney_> i guess I reported that in the mobile meeting last week
<ogra> ah, k
<ogra> sorry then :)
<cooloney_> ogra: np
<cooloney_> hehe
<cooloney_> so for next release
<ogra> yeah
<cooloney_> we won't apply BSP updates ?
<ogra> or possibly SRU stuff if we find big nugs
<ogra> *bugs
<cooloney_> because it is close to release
<cooloney_> ok, got you
<cooloney_> thx
<GrueMaster> Yes, nugs are bad too.  :P
<ogra> oohh yeah
<cooloney_> ogra: and please raise the regulator issue when you talk with fsl
 * NCommander pokes ericm_ with a stick
<ericm_> for dove no change yet - Marvell has made another drop of patchset which are largely Android support with some fixes, review still in progress
<ogra> cooloney_, i will ... tonight
<ogra> ericm_, any chance we get the powermanagement bugs closed before freeze ?
<ericm_> and I'm working on several new bugs on Dove
<ericm_> ogra, I supposed so
<ogra> (sicne they show up on the charts)
<ericm_> ogra, suspend/resume seems work fine on my new x0
<ericm_> plars, GrueMaster, you may comment on those two dove bugs
<ogra> then close the remaining bugs :)
<ericm_> what I'd bring to this meeting is the kexec issue
<ericm_> two workarounds from my POV, one in kernel and one in kexec-tools
<plars> ericm_: which ones, the ones we talked about last night?
<GrueMaster> New bug filed yesterday is somewhat critical.  launching mplayer causes dove to go into a kernel panic, locking the system.
<cooloney_> right, I am also working on this with eric's help
<ericm_> plars, suspend/resume
<ericm_> plars, it works on my X0 dove, not sure from your side
<ogra> cooloney_, ericm_, note that kexec is just a nice to have at this point ... the open bugs are more important
<plars> interesting... so if anyone else can verify that would be good
<ericm_> GrueMaster, I know - that's why I'm working on that
<ericm_> ogra, understood
<plars> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-mvl-dove/+bug/530432
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 530432 in linux-mvl-dove "suspend with sd card inserted fails to suspend, hangs, and loses USB" [Undecided,New]
<GrueMaster> You asked me to report on it.
<plars> is the bug we are talking about
<ericm_> plars, yeah - I mean normal suspend/resume without SD
<ericm_> plars, 530432 is another bug I think
<plars> ericm_: oh, sure, normal suspend/resume works for me
<ericm_> bug 516811
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 516811 in linux-mvl-dove "[dove] system hangs with resume after suspend" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/516811
<plars> ericm_: right, that one was closed already
<ericm_> plars, ok
<plars> I marked it fixed back on 02/24
<ericm_> hibernation still doesn't work with smoking test
<NCommander> So anything else to report on kernel status? Time is getting short
<ericm_> ogra, so yes at least lucid-beta should be able to use suspend/resume (without SD of cuz)
<ogra> great
<ogra> what are the plans for fixes after freeze ?
<ogra> does ARM also fall under the SRU model the kernel team plans ?
<ericm_> ogra, I think ARM is little bit different, we are a little bit more flexible to merge patches from vendors
<ogra> great, that was what i was hoping to hear
<ogra> :)
<NCommander> ericm_: cooloney_anything elsemajor to report?
<ericm_> not strictly following SRU
 * NCommander really doesn't want to run over
<ericm_> nothing from me
<cooloney_> NCommander: nothing from my side now
<ogra> go
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Application status (JamieBennett, dyfet)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Application status (JamieBennett, dyfet)
<ogra> dyfet, ??
<plars> no qa status?
<ogra> yeah, right
<plars> I posted part of it, but I don't know if maybe GrueMaster has something to add
<dyfet> qa status?
<GrueMaster> I can, but not much.
 * NCommander hiccuped
<GrueMaster> Pretty much the same as in my AR.
<plars> I updated status on the meeting page, but to quickly recap: we got good coverage on iso tracker tests but could always use more eyes, please spend a cycle testing an image or two if you have hardware when we hit these milestones, Suspend/resume blueprint is ready for use (let me know if you find any problems) and has already exposed several bugs (lp:~pwlars/checkbox/checkbox-susres)
<NCommander> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster, plars)
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster, plars)
<NCommander> anything else here?
<dyfet> oh in arm app status, we had another arm porting meeting, and submitted fixes for gmp
<GrueMaster> I've done some extensive bluetooth testing on imx51 so far.  No issues with file transfer mode.
<ogra> \o/
<persia> Cool!
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Application status (JamieBennett, dyfet)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Application status (JamieBennett, dyfet)
<cooloney_> GrueMaster: great
<NCommander> any objectoinis I mov eon?
<persia> no
<GrueMaster> I thought you had.
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)
<ogra> he is not sure where he is moving to
<ogra> :)
<dyfet> ah :)...I am off sync this morning.  Too little coffee :)
<dyfet> But we did have another arm minisprint last week
 * ogra added his questions to the wiki for that topic
<ogra> is that all for app-status ?
<dyfet> well, we did get gmp updated
<ogra> yes, you said so above :)
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, persia)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Image Status (ogra, persia)
<ogra> NCommander, err
<ogra> FTBFS ?
<persia> So, the server image built great!
<ogra> netbook too apart from out-of-sync ness
<persia> Ubuntu netbook needs evolution to be less skewed (should be sorted tomorrow)
<ogra> right
<persia> Kubuntu netbook needs help
 * persia blames NCommander 
 * StevenK does too
<ogra> i dont think we need to repeat here whats written on the wiki
 * StevenK blames NCommander for lots of things
 * NCommander wonders who doesn't
<persia> Next topic :)
 * ogra only blames NCommander for skipping FTBFS status
<NCommander> [topic] Blaming NCommander for Stuff
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blaming NCommander for Stuff
<NCommander> ogra: I didn't :-P
<GrueMaster> I'm trying to get some outside help for the kde issues.
<ogra> i didnt see you talking about it
<NCommander> [topic] Any Other Business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any Other Business
<ogra> there are questions on the wiki
<ogra> and i'd like an answer
<ogra> which is why i added them
<NCommander> ogra: likewise is still pending validation, I worked with gruemaster on getting a windows box up to test on ARM, but no new progress on this front
<GrueMaster> I am ramping up on likewise testing.
<Riddell> GrueMaster: which issues?  which outside help?
<ogra> dyfet, can you take over investigation of the squid issue ?
<GrueMaster> Riddell: The ftbfs issues.
<ogra> NCommander, did the patch get forwarded to server team (like i'm asking since about 6 weeks)
<ogra> did they review the code changes and comment on them
<persia> ogra: Only 3: be fair
<NCommander> ogra: I was directed to working with likewise, as I said. Things got stuck in legal for a bit
<ogra> persia, sprint was only 3 weeks ago ?
<persia> ogra: According to my calendar, yes.
<ogra> persia, sorry but i'm getting impatient on this its a simple bug and subscribing the server team to it
<NCommander> ogra: yeah, plus I've had higher NMIs :-/
<dyfet> ogra: yes
<NCommander> ogra: I *told* you during the sprint the server team was forwaded
<GrueMaster> same with my calendar.
<persia> ogra: Understood.  Just seeking accuracy of complaint.
<NCommander> and I told you I was working with likewise on this, its been dep-wait validation
<ogra> NCommander, i didnt see a code review of your patch from anyone from them on your bug
<NCommander> ogra: its been over email unfortnately
<ogra> please ask them if the intrusive changes your patch makes are ok
<NCommander> ogra: what intrusive changes?
<ogra> and ask them to comment on the bug where the patch is attached
<NCommander> ogra: the patch has to be validated against a Windows server installation to confirm it works, then it will be merged upstream
<ogra> we can discuss details offline, i'm simply asking you to get a public comment from the server team since the sprint
<GrueMaster> Something I hope to accomplish in the next couple of days.
<ogra> cant be that hard, can it ?
<NCommander> ogra: you never said public, I've been talking with them on it on IRC.
<ogra> i asked you to subscribe them to the bug and do the conversation on the bug
 * ogra sighs
<ogra> lets move on
<ogra> that takes to much time
<GrueMaster> ogra: ever set up a Windows Active Directory Server before?
<ogra> GrueMaster, to review some code changes ?
<GrueMaster> To ensure they work.
<GrueMaster> I can write code changes.  They won't do much good without testing though.
<ogra> GrueMaster, i dont care if they have been tested, i want to have them approved first by the package maintainers
<NCommander> ogra: look, if you want likewise, take it over. I'm merging this against upstream directly to make sure we don't ge t non-working binaries with our patch.
<ogra> NCommander, all i'm askinf for since weeks is to make the conversation public on the bug and involve the server team in the bug
<ogra> nothing more
<NCommander> ogra: the bug been posted, and the server team been informed
<ogra> i dont care about tech details
<ogra> can you please makje sure that goes on the bug
<NCommander> anything else w.r.t. to ABO anyone wants to bring up?
<ogra> (the conversation and approval for the code changes from them)
<NCommander> else I'd like to close out the meeting
<NCommander> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 08:00.
<ogra> there is a topic under AOB
 * ogra curses anbd goes aflk
<NCommander> ogra: we wer eon AOB
<cjwatson> anyone else here for the DMB meeting?
<showard> I am (applicant)
<cjwatson> I have to leave early, I'm afraid, no later than 15:35 UTC
<persia> stgraber: Aren't you chair this time?
<didrocks> I am too (applicant2)
<cjwatson> nixternal,soren: ping?
<cjwatson> no cody-somerville, no geser
<cjwatson> come on, I'm not going to back-seat chair this :)
<cjwatson> sorry about this, showard and didrocks
<cjwatson> the meeting time hasn't changed AFAIK so I'm not sure what's up
<didrocks> cjwatson: not a problem, I still can live with sponsoring :)
<persia> didrocks: Thanks for your patience.
<showard> Is it possible to review my app over email?
<cjwatson> we may be able to do that if we're not quorate in the meeting
<cjwatson> though we always prefer to do it interactively if we can
<persia> cjwatson: Shall we call ourselves unquorate at :15 if we don't get any others?
 * soren wanders in
<cjwatson> thanks, soren - we need at least one more
<cjwatson> persia: yes, I think we'll have to
<showard> ok, I'll try to make the next meeting then
<soren> Sorry about being late. The calendar that was supposed to remind me about this meeting went missing two days ago :)
<soren> \o/
<persia> soren: geser: either of you up for chairing in stgraber's absence?
<soren> I have a phone call at 15:30.
<soren> UTC.
<cjwatson> showard: looking at your wiki page, I think there's enough information there that we ought to be able to vote offline
<cjwatson> ah, but geser has made it, ok
<cjwatson> I have a hard stop at 15:35.
<persia> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:11. The chair is persia.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<persia> (since nobody else seemed to want to chair)
 * soren hugs persia 
<persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda
<persia> [TOPIC] Action Item Review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action Item Review
<persia> [TOPIC] ScottK to start discussion on future of MOTU Council among its constituency (MOTU)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ScottK to start discussion on future of MOTU Council among its constituency (MOTU)
<persia> I started such discussions to avoid further delay.
<persia> [TOPIC] persia to gather votes from absent members by email
<MootBot> New Topic:  persia to gather votes from absent members by email
<persia> I completely failed to do this and will send an email at the conclusion of this meeting
<persia> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Contributing Developer Application for Scott Howard (showard314)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Contributing Developer Application for Scott Howard (showard314)
<persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScottHoward/ContributingDeveloperApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScottHoward/ContributingDeveloperApplication
<showard> (if you're pressed on time, you can do ddrocks first, he's more important)
<cjwatson> might as well go in order
<cjwatson> I've been looking through your page while we waited, it's more fleshed out than I'd expected for a universe-contributor app (which is good!)
<cjwatson> You seem to be doing pretty well so far, from everything I can tell; what are you planning as your next steps?
<geser> but a little sparse with endorsements
<showard> Next step is to finish going through the motu-science list, we were able to get all but 6 out of 600 packages up to date for lucid
<showard> we fixed a bunch of library problems that should allow a few more to go
<showard> but for now it's bug fixing
<showard> long term is to eventually go for MOTU
<persia> showard: You say that you feel "alone" when working on some stuff.  Do you find the IRC channels insufficiently active, or just not related to your areas of work?
<showard> That was something I felt while working on GPM bugs, I was getting help when needed from IRC - but it was just Richard Hughes (the GPM author) and I working through a lot of bugs
<showard> But once we got closer to beta, pitti helped a lot
<showard> However, once I moved to "universe" bugs - the sponsorship help has been great
<persia> Anyone have further questions?
<soren> Nope.
<geser> no
<cjwatson> not I
<persia> [VOTE] Approve Scott Howard for Contributing Developer
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Approve Scott Howard for Contributing Developer.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<soren> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from soren. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<cjwatson> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<persia> +1 Lovely workd
<MootBot> +1 received from persia. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<persia> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<persia> Congratulations showard, and Welcome.
<showard> Thanks!
<persia> [TOPiC] Ubuntu Core Developer Application for Didier Roche (didrocks)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Core Developer Application for Didier Roche (didrocks)
<persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DidierRoche/CoreDevApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DidierRoche/CoreDevApplication
<geser> Both didrocks and echidnaman (who isn't on the agenda for an unknown reason) mention problems with upload rights and package sets. IMHO this should be fixed if it's buggy and not worked around by becoming core-dev (but this shouldn't count against the applicants).
<didrocks> hey o/
 * ogra cheers for didrocks 
<persia> ogra: Go add an endorsement to the wiki :)
<didrocks> ogra: still time ;)
<ogra> i havent sponsored a thing for him :)
<cjwatson> geser: I agree that it's a problem, although it's conceptually difficult
<cjwatson> but it's on my unfiled bug list
<cjwatson> there's a tension between how much we want the ubuntu-desktop team to be able to change anything in the Ubuntu desktop, and how much we want to avoid them accidentally breaking other flavours, and that tension is the basic source of the problems
<cjwatson> (after all, if we knew they wouldn't break other flavours, they'd be core-dev ... :-) )
<persia> didrocks: When working with packages that affect other flavours, what is the most complicated issue in ensuring they work for everyone?
<cjwatson> anyway.  my wife points out that I miscalculated my stop time and I need to go and pick the child up from school :-(
<persia> And soren leaves in 3.
<didrocks> persia: right, as you saw, I work very closely with the xubuntu guys in particular, for the default session thing
<persia> didrocks: Apologies, but we won't be able to complete your applcation this time.  Do you wish us to try to continue by email, or come back in two weeks?
<cjwatson> please consider this my +1 in advance of the formal vote; I have worked with didrocks on a few occasions, enough to be confident
<didrocks> persia: as you want :)
<didrocks> cjwatson: thanks
<persia> soren: Do you want to register a vote in advance (privately or publically) as well?
<soren> persia: Sure. I've seen enough of didrocks' work to be happy to +1 him.
 * didrocks hugs soren as well :)
<persia> In that case, we might be able to finish this application :)
 * soren leaves for another meeting
<didrocks> persia: so, I continue on the "consider deriatives" :)
<persia> didrocks: Sorry for the interruption.  Please continue about cross-flavour issues.
<didrocks> yeah, as I told, I tried to work closely and consider derivatives first. That's why I work on the multisession thing in gdm to enable to install more than one flavor (it wasn't possible to install both xubuntu and mythbuntu on karmic, for instance)
<didrocks> and I have good friends in xubuntu community, so most of the time I've speaking with them if I feel a change can break them
<didrocks> also, I'm now responible of UNE, which is a derivative finally :)
<persia> flavour :)
<didrocks> so, I put even more consideration on that
<didrocks> right, flavour :)
<didrocks> do I need to develop more?
<persia> didrocks: So you mostly just test stuff in several flavours to ensure others aren't affected?
<didrocks> persia: for things that I consider that may break other flavours, yes
<didrocks> (like changing something in Xsession.d, gdm)
<persia> geser: Anything?
<geser> no questions
<persia> [VOTE] Approve Didier Roche for Ubuntu Core Developer
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Approve Didier Roche for Ubuntu Core Developer.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<persia> +1 I can't find anything useful to critique in recent core uploads, which isn't always true for long-term core-devs.  Nice and careful work
<MootBot> +1 received from persia. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<persia> And +2 from before
<persia> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 2 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 2
<persia> didrocks: Congratulations, and Welcome!
<didrocks> thanks persia and geser \o/
<persia> echidnaman doesn't appear to be present, which is extra handy as we no longer have quorum.
<persia> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<persia> Anyone have anything that can usefully be brought to 2/7 of the DMB?
<persia> [TOPIC] Select a chair for the next meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Select a chair for the next meeting
<persia> geser: Are you up for volunteering for that?
 * persia doesn't really want to do three in a row
<geser> I'm (if my university schedule permits it which I still have to look at)
<persia> OK.  We'll punt that to email then.
<persia> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:41.
<didrocks> thanks everyone :)
 * smb looks around
<bjf> Roll Call
 * apw lands gracefully on the edge of your window
 * smb is impressed with apw's skill
<apw> i thank you
<bjf> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:00. The chair is bjf.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<bjf> NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<bjf> NOTE: JFo is not joining us today. However, I have his data for the topics he is responsible for.
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Action Item: None
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Action Item: None
<bjf> [TOPIC] Release Metrics: (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Release Metrics: (JFo)
<bjf> Release Meeting Bugs (2 bugs, 0 blueprints)
<bjf> ===
<bjf> Beta 1 Milestoned Bugs (62 bugs against all packages ())
<bjf>  * 8 linux kernel bugs ()
<bjf>  * 1 linux-fsl-imx51 bugs ()
<bjf>  * 1 linux-ec2 bug ()
<bjf>  * 0 linux-mvl-dove bugs ()
<bjf> ===
<bjf> Release Targeted Bugs (164 bugs against all packages (up 27))
<bjf>  * 18 linux kernel bugs (up 3)
<bjf>  * 1 linux-fsl-imx51 bugs (down 2)
<bjf>  * 1 linux-ec2 bug (up 1)
<bjf>  * 0 linux-mvl-dove bugs (down 1)
<bjf> ===
<bjf> Milestoned Features -
<bjf>  * 0 blueprints
<bjf> === Bugs with Patches Attached:110 (not counting Fix Committed)(down 2)
<bjf> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.has_patch=on
<bjf> Breakdown by status:
<bjf> http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/csv-stats/bugs-with-patches/linux/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/csv-stats/bugs-with-patches/linux/
<bjf> == Blueprints
<bjf> kernel-lucid-bug-handling:
<bjf>  * No update, all items are still in progress.
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-review-of-ubuntu-delta (apw)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-review-of-ubuntu-delta (apw)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-review-of-ubuntu-delta
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-review-of-ubuntu-delta
<apw> Lenovo driver confirmed no longer required and dropped.  This blueprint is essentially complete.
<apw> ..
<bjf> i'll remove it from the agenda
<apw> ack ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-kernel-config-review (apw)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-kernel-config-review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-kernel-config-review (apw)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-kernel-config-review
<apw> It seems we require SECCOMP enabled for Lucid, preliminary patches for ARM are under testing.
<apw> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-kms (sconklin / apw)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-kms
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-kms (sconklin / apw)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-kms
<apw> The v2.6.33 DRM backport is looking very much the better starting point in most testing.  There are still issues to resolve but they are much much less severe.  The final go/no-go decision is expected in the next couple of days with the change occuring this week.
<apw> ..
<sconklin> We have been attempting to test the main Lucid kernel and also the Lucid kernel with the .33 drm backport, but have encountered problems with suspend/resume that appear to be related to the Iron Lake processor but not the drm drivers. We are continuing to try to sort out these problems.
<sconklin> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-suspend-resume (manjo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-suspend-resume (manjo)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-suspend-resume
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-suspend-resume
<bjf> no manjo today
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-apparmor-development (jjohansen)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-apparmor-development
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-apparmor-development (jjohansen)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-apparmor-development
<jjohansen> another submission going out today, wanted to sleep on d_path and d_namespace changes
<jjohansen> also pam_apparmor will be finished up today as well
<jjohansen> ..
<apw> whats the reception like for your pushes?
<jjohansen> hmm, not bad, the d_path stuff is getting the most conversation
<apw> cool thanks ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-boot-performance (apw, csurbhi)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-boot-performance
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-boot-performance (apw, csurbhi)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-boot-performance
<apw> We remain around the 1.6s to rootfs mark.  There is some instability in the figure which looks to be a race during boot, needs further investigation.  Patches for incremental readahead detection are now in testing.
<apw> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: Lucid Audio Support (bjf)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: Lucid Audio Support (bjf)
<bjf> Nothing new this week.
<bjf> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: Lucid Better Power Mgt (amitk)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: Lucid Better Power Mgt (amitk)
<bjf> no amitk this week
<apw> no amitk i believe
<bjf> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: EC2 Lucid Kernel Status (jjohansen)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: EC2 Lucid Kernel Status (jjohansen)
<jjohansen> no change from last week
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Lucid (apw)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Lucid (apw)
<apw> Lucid is at stable v2.6.32.9.  We have taken a few small update icluding a wacom driver update.  As mentioned above we are still looking to update graphics with that likely to be the outcome.
<apw> Progress has been pretty solid the last week, but new tasks and bugs pulling us back from the trend-line.  There is a fair bit to do before kernel freeze but the new bits should be in in time.  We will have to do some fixing after that.  We have closed off one of the slipped items, the rest remain and need pushing.
<apw> If you have an at-risk item, i would like to know when its likely to be done.
<apw> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Karmic/Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (gnarl/smb)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Karmic/Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (gnarl/smb)
<smb> Dapper:      2.6.15-55.82  (security)
<smb> Hardy:       2.6.24-27.65  (security)
<smb>              2.6.24-27.67  (proposed)[8]   1/ 3 verifications done (+1)
<smb> Intrepid:    2.6.27-17.45  (security)
<smb> Jaunty:      2.6.28-18.59  (security)
<smb> Karmic:      2.6.31-19.56  (security)
<smb>              2.6.31-20.57  (proposed)[22]  8/19 verifications done (+3)
<smb>  - LBM       2.6.31-20.22  (proposed)[22]  0/ 2 verifications done (+0)
<smb>  - mvl-dove  2.6.31-211.22 (security)
<smb>              2.6.31-211.23 (waiting for acceptance)
<smb>  - fsl-imx51 2.6.31-108.21 (security)
<smb>              2.6.31-108.22 (proposed)[13]  0/ 1 verifications done (+0)
<smb>  - ec2       2.6.31-304.10 (security)
<smb>              2.6.31-304.11 (proposed)[13]  0/ 1 verifications done (+0)
<smb> For Karmic: the following bugs are unverified:
<smb> bug 504273, bug 494045, bug 494461 and bug 510722 (intel graphics)
<smb> bug 458503 and bug 458503 (hotkeys)
<smb> bug 506180 (ath5k regression by stable)
<smb> jjohanson, could you comment on bug 428692 for karmic?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 504273 in linux "Add Intel Iron Lake support to Karmic" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/504273
<smb> For now there were some doubts on bug 452558 as of whether 96MB of memory
<smb> stolen is a high ratio of overall memory on ARM. Probably someone with
<smb> knowledge has to say there is still enough left.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 494045 in linux "kernel crash during kms graphic boot on Intel GM4500 platform" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/494045
<smb> ..
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 494461 in linux "Massive performance hit after disabling VGA with -intel" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/494461
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 510722 in linux "Fix the Iron Lake "Lost Interrupt" bug" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/510722
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 458503 in linux "Volume keys don't work on AMILO 1848+u " [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/458503
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 506180 in linux "Atheros Communications Inc. AR2413 802.11bg doesnt work after update" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/506180
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 428692 in linux-ec2 "ec2 kernel needs CONFIG_BLK_DEV_LOOP=y and other config changes" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/428692
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 452558 in linux-mvl-dove "Change VMETA_MEM_SIZE to 96 to support 1080p videos" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/452558
<smb> Go ubottu, go
<smb> ..
<bjf> jjohansen, ? comment on 428692
<jjohansen> err, like?
<smb> It likely just needs a quick feedback whether or not the current Karmic proposed kernel for ec2 is good enough to go updates
<jjohansen> ah, okay I'll go add that
<jjohansen> its been good since it went to proposed
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<bjf> Incoming Bugs
<bjf> 160/185 Lucid Bugs (up 25)
<bjf> Current regression stats (broken down by release):
<bjf> ==== regression-potential (up 6) ====
<bjf>   * 57 lucid bugs
<bjf> ==== regression-update (up 1) ====
<bjf>   * 10 karmic bugs
<bjf>   * 5 jaunty bugs
<bjf>   * 2 intrepid bugs
<bjf>   * 1 hardy bug
<bjf> ==== regression-release (up 2) ====
<bjf>   * 57 karmic bugs 2
<bjf>   * 23 jaunty bugs
<bjf>   * 11 intrepid bugs
<bjf>   * 4 hardy bugs
<bjf> ==== regression-proposed (no change) ====
<bjf>   * 1 karmic bug
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<bjf> No bug day last week. This week's bug day has been postponed to next week. The focus will be on bugs with patches.
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
<apw> .
<bjf> apw, go
<apw> just a reminder we're heading into the last week for lucid before freeze
<apw> anything you think you want in needs to be on my radar before friday
<apw> ..
<bjf> thanks everyone
<bjf> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:14.
<apw> bjf, thanks
<cking> ditto
<sconklin> bjf: thanks
<smb> same
<csurbhi> bjf, thanks !
<McPeter> hi all
<YoBoY> cool :D
<YoBoY> hi
<DisasteR> :)
<issyl0> Hi
<blizzkid> nite
<kinouchou> cool :)
<nijaba> o/
<YoBoY> hi nijaba :)
<kinouchou> hello
<issyl0> Hi kinouchou.
<kinouchou> hi issyl0
<thorwil> hello
<issyl0> win 1
<issyl0> Oops, sorry.
<nils1> is this meeting still ongoing?
<forumsmatthew> ping EMEA board members: popey Seveas markvandenborre stgraber phanatic highvoltage
<phanatic> forumsmatthew: pong
 * highvoltage waves
<forumsmatthew> hmm, I wonder where the others are...or do I have the time wrong for our meeting?
<blizzkid> forumsmatthew: not if it's 20 UTC now ;)
<phanatic> forumsmatthew: we should be having the meeting now
<forumsmatthew> yeah, but sometimes I can't read... ;-)
<forumsmatthew> okay, let's give them a couple more minutes and see
<McPeter> :)
<nils1> oh then am i not too late? here in germany its already 21h
<YoBoY> nils1: in France too ;)
<blizzkid> nils1: Belgium too, 20 UTC = 21 here ;)
<highvoltage> stgraber has been traveling a lot the last 3 days, so he might be tired/jetlagged/etc
<YoBoY> who lives with UTC time by the way :p
<niko> hi there
<knome> highvoltage, well he should be in a EU timezone anyway
<phanatic> highvoltage: i think he mentioned that he wouldn't make it
<McPeter> hi niko :)
<nils1> puh! :-)
<issyl0> Hello.
<highvoltage> knome: yep he is indeed
<knome> highvoltage, yup. last saw him 12 hours ago at a breakfast in london ;)
<highvoltage> knome: yeah he's in Zurich now I believe
<knome> highvoltage, yup
<knome> highvoltage, (if his flight didn't get cancelled ;))
<highvoltage> well I hope we get quorum, this is my first meeting as EMEA Council member
<knome> i hope that as well
<Pendulum> highvoltage: congrats!
<didrocks> stgraber already missed the DMB board later :)
<highvoltage> thanks Pendulum!
<forumsmatthew> usually everyone is very good about sending a message if they can't make it, so I'm hopeful
<issyl0> What's happening?
<forumsmatthew> we're waiting a bit to see if another board member will show up...we're a bit of a small group for a quorum
<blizzkid> forumsmatthew: we won't tell anyone ;-)
<issyl0> forumsmatthew: ah, I see.  OK.  :)
<popey> o/
<highvoltage> yay
<forumsmatthew> yay!!
<popey> sorry, just got in from work
 * knome hugs popey 
<forumsmatthew> is phanatic still here?
<popey> what we doing?
<forumsmatthew> \o/
<highvoltage> hi markvandenborre
<markvandenborre> hi
<markvandenborre> sorry about the delay
<forumsmatthew> we are going to start now that you two have arrived
<markvandenborre> network was down around here
<phanatic> yup, still here
<forumsmatthew> okay, let's start
<forumsmatthew> thorwil, are you here?
<knome> he is \o/
<thorwil> forumsmatthew: yes
<forumsmatthew> great! please introduce yourself
<thorwil> hi! i'm Thorsten Wilms, a designer from Germany
<thorwil> i'm active in ubuntu-artwork
<thorwil> you might have seen one of the last 3 countdown banners
<popey> ok, this one is easy for me, I've been aware of thorwils work on the artwork team for a while, and recognise Ken and mpt's testimonials, +1
<thorwil> or the header of ubuntu-brainstorm ;)
<highvoltage> I've been familiar with his work for a long time but not with him. Just read his wiki page and... wow.
<highvoltage> +1
<thorwil> thank you, popey
<phanatic> very good testimonials, and excellent work. +1
<markvandenborre> +1
<knome> i could not agree more with popey, even if i'm only here to cheer for thorwil
<forumsmatthew> Good examples of really nice work, excellent testimonials. Easy +1 for me
<markvandenborre> this is so obvious
<thorwil> thank you all! :D
<popey> congrats thorwil :)
 * popey does the launchpad stuff
<forumsmatthew> That's all 4 of us. Congratulations!
<highvoltage> congrats and welcome thorwil
<knome> yay
<knome> WOOOOHOOOO
 * thorwil hugs everyone
<forumsmatthew> YoBoY, you are up.
<knome> the next round is on me
 * troy_s clap clap.
<YoBoY> :)
<YoBoY> Hi, I'm Philippe, one of the current French documentation administrators.
<YoBoY> I'm also one of the core organizers of the Ubuntu Party in Paris.
<YoBoY> I've runned some bug jam and one doc jam las year, and i'm ready to run more this year.
<YoBoY> My wiki page : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/YoBoY
<highvoltage> YoBoY: how long have you been working on the French documentation?
<niko> if i can add a comment, he helps a lot french community
<YoBoY> as administrator, since may 2009
<phanatic> an easy one again after reading the testimonials. keep up the good work! +1
<didrocks> (YoBoY is a core member of the 4K mafia which is now 5K on our French ubuntu party). /me cheers him ;)
<YoBoY> but i write doc since the beginning, 2005 ^^
<popey> heheh didrocks
<YoBoY> tanks didrocks :p
<forumsmatthew> I agree with phanatic, easy +1
<highvoltage> yes great testimonials from very prominent French contributors. +1
<forumsmatthew> popey?
<popey> +1
<forumsmatthew> \o/
<didrocks> highvoltage: heh, you'll see, French people in force today ;)
<forumsmatthew> congratulations!
<didrocks> congrats YoBoY!
<YoBoY> tanks everyone :)
<popey> a testimonial from Christophe is very handy :)
<highvoltage> congratulations and welcome YoBoY!
<forumsmatthew> kinouchou, your turn. :)
<kinouchou> hello
<kinouchou> I'm kinouchou, I live in France
<highvoltage> didrocks: well I'm learning French soon so I'm not complaining :)
<kinouchou> I'm a end-user, not a developer
<kinouchou> I help to organize the French ubuntu-party
<kinouchou> and I'm the vice-treasurer
<kinouchou> and I don't speak english :)
<phanatic> again, the testimonials, and the work done speak for themselves :)
<kinouchou> I help the french loco since 1 year
<didrocks> (just can say the same than for YoBoY,CCC in addition that she does a lot of work huat and I should do/don't have the time to do in the French community)
<niko> like YoBoY, he helps a lot ubuntu-fr loco during years
<forumsmatthew> you have some great testimonials
<davromaniak> kinouchou is a very good person on the Ubuntu Party French Team
<didrocks> the only thing is that if we can have more money in ubuntu-fr bank account, she will deserve more hugs :)
<popey> so great to see people come along and cheer!
<popey> it really shows how our community works
<forumsmatthew> we usually ask for at least 6 months of contributions, and it seems you have easily met that standard
<highvoltage> she has great wiki page and contributions (I always go *wow* at the 5000 people events in Paris) as well as excellent testimonials. +1
<YoBoY> (we paid them to come :p)
<forumsmatthew> I love all the cheers here in irc
<popey> hehe
<phanatic> +1 of course :)
<forumsmatthew> +1
<popey> ahh, treasurer
<popey> handy
<popey> +1
<markvandenborre> +1
<forumsmatthew> congratulaions!!
<YoBoY> congrats kinouchou :D
<davromaniak> congratulations kinouchou and YoBoY
<kinouchou> :)
<didrocks> congrats kinouchou!
<kinouchou> thanks
<highvoltage> congratulations and welcome kinouchou!
<forumsmatthew> bienvenue
<McPeter> congrats kinouchou :)
<forumsmatthew> blizzkid, are you ready? It is your turn
<kinouchou> merci mc44  :)
<blizzkid> I'm Martijn, a 31 year young SysAdmin from Belgium
<markvandenborre> (I think I'd better abstain here, as Martijn might be too close to the Belgian team, no?)
<blizzkid> I've been using linux on and off between 2000 and 2004
<blizzkid> and Ubuntu since 2004 permanently
<blizzkid> I'm a "silent" member of Ubuntu Belgium Loco team (I try to offer ideas via mailing lists, but most events are a bit outside my area)
<blizzkid> I'm also a local support point
<blizzkid> and teach an Ubuntu class at Syntra Mechelen
<blizzkid> and most important, I'm an Ubuntu fanatic
<highvoltage> blizzkid: what kind of work do you do in your loco team?
<phanatic> markvandenborre: i'm interested in your opinion about him
<forumsmatthew> is this your class? http://www.syntra-ab.be/opleidingen/Starten-met-Linux-Ubuntu
<blizzkid> highvoltage: mainly offering ideas/suggestions atm tbh
<blizzkid> forumsmatthew: no, it's the second year of sysadmin course
<forumsmatthew> do you have a link we could look at?
<blizzkid> forumsmatthew: I'll try to look it up if you give me a sec
<blizzkid> hmm,can't find it right away, but I'll keep looking ;)
<forumsmatthew> markvandenborre, I would also be interested in your opinion if you know Martijn
<forumsmatthew> this maybe? http://www.syntra-ab.be/opleidingen/Linux-als-server-(systeembeheer)
<blizzkid> http://www.syntra-ab.be/opleidingen/Netwerkbeheerder
<forumsmatthew> thank you
<blizzkid> np
<markvandenborre> Syntra is basicly some +-public education institution for working (or jobless?) people to improve their skills after normal working hours
<highvoltage> +0. good work so far, but I think in terms of solid sustained contributions I think we expect more for membership
<forumsmatthew> I can see a lot of good things that you are doing. My hesitation is that I don't see many things that directly affect the Ubuntu community. Am I reading that correctly?
<blizzkid> forumsmatthew: I try to offer support as much as possible as being a local support point
<blizzkid> I've spread about 100 cd's in my area over the last 2 years
<blizzkid> and helped install it for at least 8 people
<forumsmatthew> That is a good thing. I would like to see some documentation of things done if they are to be used as a basis for membership
<blizzkid> I can inderstand that
<blizzkid> I'd like to point out the testimonials though
<highvoltage> blizzkid: indeed, installing ubuntu for people in your area counts much more than being in the smokers team. you might want to list that :)
<forumsmatthew> Unfortunately, I don't know any of those who wrote them and there are no links to them within the Ubuntu community so I can consider that.
<blizzkid> highvoltage: yeah, I only noticed today it was missing :(
<popey> one of the testimonials is from someone who no longer has a launchpad account
<forumsmatthew> I like what I'm seeing, but at the moment I'm not sure we have enough evidence of sustained, real contributions for us to confer membership
<phanatic> i agree with forumsmatthew
<forumsmatthew> I'm +0 for now
<highvoltage> blizzkid: I like your passion and your dedication, and from the testimonials it seems that you're very proficient technically as well, I would just like to see more of that proficiency used directly in the project
<forumsmatthew> that isn't a rejection, just a "not-now"
<phanatic> +0
<blizzkid> np
<popey> I am inclined to agree. I can see sporadic contribution via launchpad, and I'd like to see some more sustained and visible contribution. I'd say +0 for now, but I'd encourage you to keep working with the loco, and aim towards coming back in ~3 months?
<forumsmatthew> perhaps with some better documentation (and continued excitement) we can reevaluate later
<blizzkid> sure, np at all
<forumsmatthew> Let's move on. Is issyl0 here? Ready?
<issyl0> forumsmatthew: yep.
<forumsmatthew> please introduce yourself :)
<issyl0> Hi, I'm Isabell.  My wiki page is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/issyl0 . I'm in the UK.
<issyl0> I've been contributing to Ubuntu since about August of last year and have got involved in many projects since then.
<niko> if that can help, she works in a lot of projects, and she's very friendly and helpfull
<forumsmatthew> I"m reading...
<forumsmatthew> You are active in a lot of different things. How do you balance the desire to participate with the amount of time that is generally needed to do things well?
<highvoltage> issyl0: one of your testimonials mention the Ubuntu Beginners Team, but it's not mentioned elsewhere in your wiki page. What is your involvement there?
<issyl0> Well I do the things when I can (whcih is most nights) and I am passionate about Ubuntu so I dedicate lots of time to it :)
<issyl0> highvoltage: oh yes, tht project I didn't quite get involved in, I decided I didn't have sufficient time to do that as well, but I showed an interest there and a willingness to participate there and I will go back and re-apply/join when I have more time which should be soon I hope.
<highvoltage> issyl0: I like your work in the Ubuntu-Women project, it's great that you're getting interviews in FCM. Any other work you've done in Ubuntu-Women or plan to do?
<forumsmatthew> Here's what I see: a young, bright, talented person with a lot of energy and excitement. That is wonderful. I'm a little worried about spreading yourself too thin, trying to do too many different things and thereby making it so what you do isn't as good as it could be.
<forumsmatthew> I think we want and need people like you in the Ubuntu community, but I don't want you to burn out.
<issyl0> highvoltage: well I plan to get involved as much as I can, but as for Ubuntu-Women I do advocacy and the FCM interviews.
<highvoltage> ditto on what forumsmatthew said.
<markvandenborre> I'm sorry, but I'll have to leave in 1.5 minutes
<markvandenborre> +1, with the same remark from me
<forumsmatthew> okay
 * maco2 here to root for issyl0 
 * mgdm too
 * AlanBell too
<forumsmatthew> here's my bottom line: I am willing to +1 for membership, but with a very strong encouragement to please pick a couple of things that you love and do them well.
<issyl0> forumsmatthew: I do try to have breaks occasionally!  I do try to do things to the best of my ability and not spread myself too then, I know when to stop and I won't take on stuff if it's too much. :)
<highvoltage> +1 from me for her involvement in ubuntu-women, great energy she brings to the project and good cheerleading from her supporters :)
<issyl0> s/then/thin/
<popey> I don't think breaks are what forumsmatthew is suggesting
<forumsmatthew> I believe you. Please take my comments to heart and consider where you can be most helpful without spreading yourself thin, okay?
<popey> I think it's more to do with focus
<forumsmatthew> That's the word I was attempting to conjure up.
<popey> i think ubuntu can benefit greatly from you issyl0
<highvoltage> I think it already has!
<forumsmatthew> Focus enables quality
<maco2> popey: or already does ;)
<issyl0> forumsmatthew: yes, thank you :)
<popey> but I worry that you'll be spread thin, and we as a project wont benefit from the 'full fat' issyl0 but get 'semi skimmed' issyl0
<highvoltage> issyl0: looking at your interests, a lot of them are big things on their own that aren't necessarily ubuntu specific
<popey> maco2: ok, benefit _more_
<forumsmatthew> Okay, lets vote. I'm +1 with the caveats I mentioned.
<popey> I am going to +1 because you have some lovely testimonials and have achieved good things in a short time, and I think your enthusiasm should be encouraged.
<forumsmatthew> mark vdb was +1
<issyl0> highvoltage: I do dedicate most time to Ubuntu though, it's somethign I'm *very* passionate about and I love the whole philosophy and teh community and that's why I would like to become a member :)
<forumsmatthew> oh, I see highvoltage is already +1
<phanatic> i'm +1 too
<forumsmatthew> congratulations and welcome!
<issyl0> Woo!
<popey> congrats
<issyl0> Thank you!
<issyl0> :D
<YoBoY> congratulation issyl0 :)
<maco2> woot!
<highvoltage> I'd like to echo forumsmatthew's comments as well. It might not be a problem now but take his suggestions to heart and keep it in mind for the future
<niko> congrtats :)
<issyl0> YoBoY: thanks, contratulations to you too :)
<Pendulum> congrats issyl0
<YoBoY> :p
<highvoltage> issyl0: congratulations and welcome!
<issyl0> highvoltage: thanks, and I will take all suggestions to heart :)
<forumsmatthew> Is there another meeting after us?
<kinouchou> :) issyl0
<popey> no
<popey> eeek, cc in 1 hour
<popey> i am happy to continue
<forumsmatthew> do those of us here have time to try to evaluate the last two?
<phanatic> sure
<issyl0> Thank you, again!
<highvoltage> Fine with me
<forumsmatthew> highvoltage?
<forumsmatthew> you are welcome, issyl0
<popey> welcome btw highvoltage ;)
<forumsmatthew> angelabad, are you ready?
<highvoltage> thanks popey :)
<forumsmatthew> please introduce yourself
<angelabad> Hi Im Angel, Sysadmin from Spain, Im Debian Maintainer, I contributed with my
<angelabad> debian packages and with package fixes in Ubuntu, triaging and forwarding
<angelabad> bugs, and Im interested in package quality, fix
<angelabad> lintian errors, add/update watch files, ...
<highvoltage> angelabad: how many watch files have you added so far? I see 4 current uploads in LP
<phanatic> i'd suggest you to go for a membership via MOTU, since you're not having too much community work that we can evaluate
<angelabad> highvoltage, yes, 4 uploads to ubuntu
<popey> I am inclined to agree with phanatic, I'd suggest MOTU would be a more appropriate route to membership..
<forumsmatthew> phanatic, I agree
<highvoltage> angelabad: I also notice you have 6 packages in REVU, although none of them are advocated yet
<forumsmatthew> I like what you are doing, angel, but I'm not qualified to judge it properly
<angelabad> highvoltage, yes waiting for advocation
<popey> indeed, it's not a -1, it's a "go see dholbach" :)
<angelabad> popey, :-D
<forumsmatthew> what popey said.
<popey> is that okay angelabad ?
<highvoltage> angelabad: I agree with angelabad and phanatic, your interest is clearly with packaging. I suggest you get your work advocated and uploaded and work on becomming a MOTU or a developer of one of the new developer groups
<highvoltage> -1 from me for now
<forumsmatthew> -0 here
<popey> +0 here ;)
<angelabad> ok, thanks I will work with MOTU
<forumsmatthew> best wishes
<forumsmatthew> is nils here?
<nils1> yes :-)
<highvoltage> good luck angelabad hope you're a MOTU soon
<forumsmatthew> great! Please introduce yourself
<nils1> hi! i am nils, a philosophy student from germany
<nils1> i am 28 years old
<nils1> since summer 2009 i started with translations of gnome and ubuntu
<nils1> i am also the coordinator of the lp-l10n-nds adminteam and since today, the new ubuntu-l10n-nds team
<nils1> i coordinate and translated low german strings
<highvoltage> your translation work is certainly impressive
<nils1> low german is spoken worldwide by 10000000 people
<nils1> my wiki page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ncfiedler
<nils1> i also coordinate the gnoome upstream nds team
<highvoltage> what are your other Ubuntu related interests besides translations?
<nils1> i am also interested in security issues
<nils1> but havent contributed there up to now
<forumsmatthew> I see a solid five months of translation activity in LP. That is great--we usually require six months of sustained activity for membership, though
<forumsmatthew> you wiki looks good, but there are no testimonials
<forumsmatthew> we like testimonials
<forumsmatthew> is there anyone here that can speak on your behalf?
<nils1> david told me to act like one, but i guess he isnt online now
<nils1> https://launchpad.net/~dpm
<nils1> we talked todays evening about localizsation and the fallback problem in ubuntu
<nils1> maybe arne goetje can say sth?
<forumsmatthew> it looks like he is marked "away"
<nils1> mmh..
<forumsmatthew> I'm going to suggest that we want you, but perhaps it would be better to come back next month
<forumsmatthew> that will give you some time
<forumsmatthew> to get some testimonials
<forumsmatthew> and to meet the time guideline
<popey> I agree
<highvoltage> yes I think this may be another case of "we like you but please come again in 3 months"
<nils1> i also manage those kde nds translations on lp because they have not much interest in that.
<popey> I love what you're doing, and we need you to keep doing it! :)
<nils1> 3 or 1 month?
<forumsmatthew> agreed! you are doing wonderful things that we appreciate
<popey> 3 months would be great!
<popey> and if you can get people to add testimonials, even better
<nils1> and where shall i get testimonials from in those 3 month?
<forumsmatthew> I do think 3 is better than 1, just to give plenty of time to get good testimonials
<highvoltage> forumsmatthew: besides the time guideline, I'd be more inclined to give you a +1 next time if you can show more breadth in your work (even just a little) and have testimonials from the people you worked with on your wiki page
<forumsmatthew> ask others working on translations
<forumsmatthew> to comment on your behalf
<maco2> nils1: anyone who sees you working on stuff can give a testimonial
<nils1> ok
<maco2> nils1: you said "kde" so im guessing other folks in #kubuntu-devel
<highvoltage> nils1: 3 months would also give you some good time to get more involved in security issues you may be interested in
<nils1> and what do you mean by breadth?
<highvoltage> nils1: feel free to add bug reports, patches and uploads you have worked on to your wiki page so that we are aware of them next time
<forumsmatthew> this isn't a rejection, so please don't feel sad--this is a "we like you, continue what you are doing, maybe get involved in one or two more things in Ubuntu if you can, get some testimonials, and come back"
<highvoltage> nils1: some work besides translations would broaden your profile
<nils1> :-( mmmh.. ok
<highvoltage> nils1: not that there's anything wrong with your translation work, it's great!
<forumsmatthew> I don't think it is vital, but it would give others in the community a chance to know you and benefit from your involvement.
<nils1> yes
<forumsmatthew> Okay, I think that's it for tonight. Thank you everyone!
<popey> great stuff
<YoBoY> thanks everyone :)
<forumsmatthew> good job at your first meeting as a board member, highvoltage
<highvoltage> yes, thanks everyone who attended
<forumsmatthew> :)
<highvoltage> thanks forumsmatthew
<issyl0> :)
<highvoltage> does anyone take notes, and is someone tasked with the LP changes?
<phanatic> thanks everyone, good night!
<forumsmatthew> highvoltage, popey has taken care of the LP stuff already, and we have a log of the meeting
<highvoltage> ok great
<forumsmatthew> good night, everyone!
<YoBoY> good bight
<YoBoY> good night
<McPeter> good night
<kinouchou> good night
<highvoltage> yes good night everyone!
<Mamarok> nils1: about nds transaltions of KDE, did you get in touch with the upstream team?
<Mamarok> translations*
<Mamarok> I very much doubt they are not interested...
<nils1> yes i did
<nils1> and asked them a several times to contribute, because i did not want to make all the work on my own, because i am not using kde, but gnome. but they just do their upstream work
<Mamarok> nils1: to be included in KDE you do know they need 70%, do you?
<nils1> and as i am the coordinator for lp-l10n-nds, i also have to agree to those kde nds translations
<nils1> they need 70% of what?
<Mamarok> 70% of KDE translated
<nils1> nds translations?
<Mamarok> all trasnaltions, a language only gets into the offical trasnalted packages once it has acheived 70%
<nils1> ah ok
<Mamarok> so you really should contribute upstream IMHO
<sabdfl1> hi all, apologies for being late
<Mamarok> sorry, my typping is not very good tonight
<nils1> but i cant do all the work on my own! i am nearly the only one in nds on lp who does the work
<Mamarok> nils1: we should take this to a PM I think, cluttering the meeting channel
<sabdfl> Technoviking: ping
<popey> sabdfl: last I saw he's in detroit waiting on a flight
<popey> 1.5 hours ago
<jcastro> he just got on a plane
 * pleia2 waves
 * popey waves too
<pleia2> so the only agenda item is ongoing in email
<McPeter> bye bye all &amp; good night
<persia> Are arbitrary updates to the wiki page for that welcomed?  The recent changes to the top section (which look nice), are not yet reflected in the bottom section.
 * persia would be happy to fix, but feels some trepidation as previous editors have been CC members
<pleia2> persia: I think making edits for accuracy are acceptable
<popey> I dont think we're precious about edits to that page :)
<persia> OK.  I'll take a swing at it in a few hours.  It's mostly changing from "you" to "The community Council" about poll setups and the like.
<pleia2> looks like only popey and I are here, so no quorum - shall we adjourn?
<pleia2> (and no new topics)
<popey> sounds fair
<sabdfl> argh, missed you all
<popey> heh
<popey> tbh we're probably still here lurking sabdfl
<kinouchou> good night
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-03-03
<cprofitt> #startmeeting -- Ubuntu Beginners Team --
<MootBot> Meeting started at 18:00. The chair is cprofitt.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<cprofitt> Hello everyone
<cjohnston> o/
<Hellow> cprofitt, I thought we was waiting for nhandler?
<cprofitt> can I get a roll call of Beginners Team members
<jgoguen> o/
<Silver_Fox_> o/
<lukjad86> o/
<Hellow> (also, it's quite apparently I'm here - for once in a year)
<cprofitt> thank you all for being here
<cprofitt> [TOPIC] Vote on change in how we vote to a more inclusive method
<MootBot> New Topic:  Vote on change in how we vote to a more inclusive method
<cprofitt> We have had a test of a voting system
<cprofitt> and I would like to see if anyone had any feedback about that
<pedro3005> hi guys
<cprofitt> if not we can move to a vote
<jgoguen> I quite like being able to assign preferences on multiple outcomes
<cprofitt> I want to ensure that you all understand that this is not a vote on which system to use
<pleia2> sorry, here, am at work
<Silver_Fox_> Nothing from me.  Though I would like clarification.  Can a vote be made in private via this method ?
<cprofitt> but a vote on if the team would like to use a system that is more inclusive
<cprofitt> Silver_Fox_: we are not, at this time, picking a method
<Silver_Fox_> Okay cprofitt .
<cprofitt> just confirming a desire to move to an inclusive method
<nhandler> o/
<cprofitt> yes nhandler
<nhandler> cprofitt: No comment, just arrived for the meeting ;)
<cprofitt> k
<paultag> cprofitt, can we define inclusive?
<PabloRubianes> the meeting officialy started?
<cprofitt> paultag: allowing a greater number of members to vote
<paultag> I hate emotional terms
<jgoguen> PabloRubianes: Yes
<PabloRubianes> jgoguen: thanks
<cprofitt> using a 'system' that does not require attendance at a specified time
<paultag> cprofitt, OK. The goal is to increase voter turnout?
<cprofitt> yes... partially
<paultag> OK
<Silver_Fox_> o/
<Hellow> o/
<cprofitt> the other goal is to make sure as we grow that people in more 'remote' timezones feel that they can have an impact on the vote
<cprofitt> Silver_Fox_:
<Silver_Fox_> Ignore,  you just answered my query
<Silver_Fox_> :)
<cprofitt> Hellow:
<Hellow> I don't know if this would happen or not, but wouldn't such a system decrease turnout at meetings?
<PabloRubianes> I think also the method should secure only members voting
<cprofitt> Hellow: it might
<pleia2> o/
<Hellow> Which could be detrimental to the communication in the team.
<cprofitt> PabloRubianes: we are not picking the method tonight
<cprofitt> yes pleia2 ?
<pleia2> we use voting for a lot, if we were to set up a voting thing like nhandler did for *every single decision* it would be a bit crazy
<pleia2> so I'm wondering if there could be some kind of threshold for important/major decisions
<ibuclaw> o/
<cprofitt> Hellow -- I think having a group of people feeling excluded from decisions is detrimental to the team as well. Given the mailing list we have multiple methods for communication.
<lukjad86> o/
<pleia2> because on the really important things I think we want voting from everyone possible
<cprofitt> pleia2: that has been discussed
<cprofitt> lukjad86:
<PabloRubianes> cprofitt: i just saying that...
<lukjad86> I would like to second pleia2's comment, since she basically said what I was thinking
<cprofitt> PabloRubianes: I agree...
<cprofitt> just wanted to make sure that you know we are not picking the method
<cprofitt> I agree... lukjad86
<cprofitt> and pleia2
<paultag> So we are having a vote to decide if we should vote to change the voting system
<cprofitt> tonight's vote is not on a specific method - but a desire to do so
<paultag> just so we are clear
<cprofitt> then my goal would be to form a small group to evaluate options...
<cprofitt> allow people to see them all and comment
<PabloRubianes> cprofitt: +1
<pleia2> I guess my point is that I'd like to see major decisions be more global-friendly, but small ones at meetings seem reasonable (so I can't realy vote fully one way or the other)
<cprofitt> then potentially test the tops two out
<cprofitt> and make a final move
<lukjad86> cprofitt I agree, and I would like to offer my help in this matter
 * cjohnston still thinks if we move one vote we should move all votes
<Hellow> I second lukjad86 in offering my assistance in this.
<paultag> Again, to be clear -- we are having a vote to decide if we should vote to change the voting system
<Silver_Fox_> o/
<cprofitt> pleia2: what I suggested was major rules/format/strucutre votes be global
<cprofitt> new member approval still me meeting only
<Silver_Fox_> Ignore..
<cprofitt> yes, paultag
<pleia2> cprofitt: ok, that was somewhat unclear :)
<cprofitt> well... this is not a final type decision at this time pleia2
<cprofitt> so I would imagine we will flesh the details out more
<cprofitt> I would like to move to a vote
<cprofitt> any objections?
<nhandler> Nope
<lukjad86> nope
<Silver_Fox_> Non from me.
<PabloRubianes> no
<cprofitt> [VOTE] The BT team would like to move to a more inclusive method of voting on issues that concern team structure or leadership positions
<MootBot> Please vote on:  The BT team would like to move to a more inclusive method of voting on issues that concern team structure or leadership positions.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<paultag> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from paultag. 0 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 0
<cprofitt> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cprofitt. 1 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1
<lukjad86> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from lukjad86. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2
<Hellow> +1
<nhandler> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Hellow. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3
<MootBot> +1 received from nhandler. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 4
<ibuclaw> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from ibuclaw. 4 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 4
<MootBot> Private -1 vote received. 4 for, 1 against, 2 have abstained. Count is now 3
<jgoguen> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from jgoguen. 5 for, 1 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 4
<Silver_Fox_> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Silver_Fox_. 6 for, 1 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 5
<cprofitt> any last votes
<cprofitt> last call for votes
<cprofitt> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 1 against. 2 abstained. Total: 5
<cprofitt> [AGREED] The BT team would like to move to a more inclusive method of voting on issues that concern team structure or leadership positions
<MootBot> AGREED received:  The BT team would like to move to a more inclusive method of voting on issues that concern team structure or leadership positions
<cprofitt> [ACTION] cprofitt will form a small group to investigate potential options and present those to the team via the email list
<MootBot> ACTION received:  cprofitt will form a small group to investigate potential options and present those to the team via the email list
<cprofitt> is anyone willing to volunteer to help with that?
<nhandler> o/
<Hellow> o/
<cjohnston> o/
<cprofitt> thank you
<lukjad86> o/
<lukjad86> cprofitt sorry, for being so slow :)
<nhandler> I would like to suggest keeping it as a *small* group
<cprofitt> yes... the four people there should be good
<PabloRubianes> nice group
<cprofitt> [ACTION] nhandler Hellow cjohnston lukjad86 will form the small group with cprofitt
<MootBot> ACTION received:  nhandler Hellow cjohnston lukjad86 will form the small group with cprofitt
<cprofitt> [TOPIC]The BT team would like to move to a method of voting on issues that concern team structure or team leadership positions that requires a percentage of total team members.
<MootBot> New Topic: The BT team would like to move to a method of voting on issues that concern team structure or team leadership positions that requires a percentage of total team members.
<cprofitt> please note that this again is for structure/leadership votes only
<nhandler> o/
<cprofitt> to me this will be unnecessary if we move to an inclusive method
<cjohnston> o/
<lukjad86> Questions?
<cprofitt> but there is potentially some value to it
<cprofitt> hold Qs for a secon
<lukjad86> k
<cprofitt> I would not suggest 2/3rd majority or anything of that nature
<PabloRubianes> I think this is good if the team member's list is updated
<cprofitt> but perhaps 40% of all members must vote in a vote to make the vote count
<cprofitt> then a simple majority would be acceptable
<cprofitt> nhandler: go
<Silver_Fox_> o/
<lukjad86> PabloRubianes That has been taken care of with nhandler
<PabloRubianes> good...
<cprofitt> nhandler: ?
<nhandler> I think even 40% might be a bit high. I would rather suggest that if we move to a more inclusive method of voting, we simply leave the vote open for X days to give people a chance to vote. If it looks like it has fallen off the radar, the vote creator sends out a reminder
<pleia2> nhandler: +1
<nhandler> I would hate to have to wait X *weeks* for certain non-active people to participate
<cprofitt> good idea nhandler
<cprofitt> cjohnston: go
<cjohnston> couple things
<cjohnston> If we are moving to a more inclusive method, it would be logical to require a certain amount to vote.
<cjohnston> You say 2/3rd majority.. Is that 2/3rds to make a vote valid or 2/3rds of +1 or -1...
<lukjad86> I would suggest that these good ideas be part of the group discussion and not be done here in the meeting for time reasons.
<cprofitt> I actually said 2/3 was a bad idea
<cjohnston> sorry.. missed the not.. :-/
<cprofitt> SilverFox: go
<Silver_Fox_> Launchpad indicates that the team is 67 members strong.  We will struggle to hit anything like 40% turnout for voting .  Are you saying that we will use a different method to determine who is a team member?
<ibuclaw> Silver_Fox_, we are already using a new method :)
<nhandler> ibuclaw: Not really. The LP member list is still the official list
<cprofitt> Silver_Fox_: no -- if we use a method that kept voting open for a week or so
<ibuclaw> well, the renewal process... which should see that number fall
<nhandler> We just changed the way renewals happen to try and get a better idea of who is active
<cprofitt> then 40% would be 26.8 people
<cprofitt> we have made inactive people expire though
<cprofitt> and LP will still be our 'source' list
<cprofitt> 40% may be too high
<Silver_Fox_> It is very easy to click a link in an email to renew.  Very little thought involved
<cprofitt> 30% might be better -- if people feel that is important
<cprofitt> the main reason I suggested the more inclusive member was to 'include' people
<lukjad86> Silver_Fox_ It no longer is like that though, it's a manual renewal with a launchpad admin
<Silver_Fox_> Oh good :)
<cprofitt> and I really do not want a 'rule' that invalidates votes based on inactivity
<nhandler> cprofitt: This percent or period of time to keep a vote open will probably depend on the method we choose to use for votes
<lukjad86> Silver_Fox_ I had to do it, so I remember :)
<cprofitt> I added it to the agenda because it was suggested
<cprofitt> nhandler: +1
<cprofitt> nhandler: it could even vary -- depending on the importance of the issue
<cjohnston> o/
<cprofitt> cjohnston: go
<persia> Some time back the MOTU team set up a process by which everyone would have a chance to share their views and a decisions could be reached by rough consensus.  A thread introducing the idea started at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2008-June/004060.html
<cjohnston> Can I recommend that this be ammended to be a part of the discussion for the group from the last vote and then presents?
<persia> This may or may not work, but it does tend to scale well, it there are real issues to be decided.
<cprofitt> thanks persia
<cprofitt> I will take a look at that
<cjohnston> s/presents/presented
<cprofitt> any objections moving to a vote?
<lukjad86> cprofitt A vote on what?
<lukjad86> Exactly
<cprofitt> cjohnston: if it passes then we can ammend it to the previous groups task
<nhandler> persia: That process was only really used a few times iirc, do you remember the reason behind that? Was it that the meetings sort of stopped?
<cjohnston> What is the vote question please
<cprofitt> [VOTE]The BT team would like to move to a method of voting on issues that concern team structure or team leadership positions that requires a percentage of total team members.
<MootBot> Please vote on: The BT team would like to move to a method of voting on issues that concern team structure or team leadership positions that requires a percentage of total team members..
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<cprofitt> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from cprofitt. 0 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
<nhandler> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from nhandler. 0 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -2
<lukjad86> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from lukjad86. 0 for, 3 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -3
<cjohnston> +0
<Silver_Fox_> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from cjohnston. 0 for, 3 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -3
<MootBot> Abstention received from Silver_Fox_. 0 for, 3 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now -3
<PabloRubianes> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from PabloRubianes. 0 for, 3 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now -3
<MootBot> Private abstention received. 0 for, 3 against. 4 abstained. Count is now -3
<ibuclaw> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from ibuclaw. 0 for, 3 against. 5 have abstained. Count is now -3
<pleia2> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from pleia2. 0 for, 4 against. 5 have abstained. Count is now -4
<lukjad86> I'm voting -1 because I think we can't decide on this before we actually decide how we are voting
<cprofitt> any more votes?
<paultag> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from paultag. 0 for, 5 against. 5 have abstained. Count is now -5
<MootBot> Private -1 vote received. 0 for, 6 against, 5 have abstained. Count is now -6
<cprofitt> last call for votes
<cprofitt> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 0 for, 6 against. 5 abstained. Total: -6
<persia> nhandler: IT was two things: 1) the meetings sort of stopped, and 2) many things were considered not important enough to need formal agreement so the process was used in abbreviated form (in that we reached consensus without needing to have led discussions to formalise it).
<nhandler> persia: Alright, thanks a lot
<cprofitt> [AGREED]The BT team would NOT like to move to a method of voting on issues that concern team structure or team leadership positions that requires a percentage of total team members.
<MootBot> AGREED received: The BT team would NOT like to move to a method of voting on issues that concern team structure or team leadership positions that requires a percentage of total team members.
<cprofitt> would anyone like to address the topic easwar put on the agenda?
<nhandler> o/
<cprofitt> [TOPIC] Decision on logging of #ubuntu-beginners
<MootBot> New Topic:  Decision on logging of #ubuntu-beginners
<cprofitt> go nhandler
<nhandler> Basically, #ubuntu-beginners is now our support channel
<nhandler> It should be all CoC compliant and appropriate. There should be no behavior in there that would reflect poorly on any individual or the team
<nhandler> It is also no longer a "social" channel
<nhandler> As a result, I see no reason why we can not make public logs available of it
<paultag> I'd agree with nhandler at this point
<nhandler> The logs of a support channel can often prove to be very valuable references
<lukjad86> o/
<nhandler> Go ahead lukjad86
<ibuclaw> nhandler, I thought logs went live circa Mid-February.
<ibuclaw> or was that procrastinated?
<lukjad86> nhandler I agree with you that since this is now a support channel, the logs should be published, but only as of the decision made at this meeting and not from before.
<cjohnston> I believe it was put off
<nhandler> ibuclaw: No, we held off on making a decision due to changing the irc structure
<cprofitt> any other comments before we move to a vote?
<nhandler> lukjad86: That would be what would happen
<lukjad86> I would also like to suggest a short, maybe week long "cooldown" period
<nhandler> lukjad86: What do you mean?
<lukjad86> Just where we warn everyone several times that the channel will be logged as of [DATE]
<lukjad86> And put it in the topic
<nhandler> lukjad86: It will take a while to get the bot in the channel to do the logging ;)
<nhandler> So that cool down period will happen anyway
<lukjad86> nhandler Yeah, but I mean that we should actively mention this :)
<nhandler> I have no objections to that
<nhandler> Any other comments?
<lukjad86> Nope :)
<nhandler> cprofitt: Shall we vote?
<cprofitt> [VOTE] #ubuntu-beginners will be logged and there will be a one week notice to team members - the fact that the channel is logged will also be included in the /topic
<MootBot> Please vote on:  #ubuntu-beginners will be logged and there will be a one week notice to team members - the fact that the channel is logged will also be included in the /topic.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<cprofitt> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cprofitt. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<cjohnston> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cjohnston. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<pleia2> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<lukjad86> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from lukjad86. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<MootBot> Private +1 vote received. 5 for, 0 against, 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<ibuclaw> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from ibuclaw. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<nhandler> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nhandler. 7 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 7
<cprofitt> last call for votes
<Silver_Fox_> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from Silver_Fox_. 7 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 7
<cprofitt> any more votes?
<MootBot> Private +1 vote received. 8 for, 0 against, 1 have abstained. Count is now 8
<PabloRubianes> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from PabloRubianes. 9 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 9
<cprofitt> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 9 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 9
<nhandler> cprofitt: Please give me the action to get this stuff sorted out
<cprofitt> [agreed] #ubuntu-beginners will be logged and there will be a one week notice to team members - the fact that the channel is logged will also be included in the /topic
<MootBot> AGREED received:  #ubuntu-beginners will be logged and there will be a one week notice to team members - the fact that the channel is logged will also be included in the /topic
<cprofitt> [ACTION]nhandler will craft a message to the team and sort out how the channel will be logged
<MootBot> ACTION received: nhandler will craft a message to the team and sort out how the channel will be logged
<cprofitt> [ACTION] nhandler will manage the topic for the channel to ensure that notice is given that the channel is logged
<MootBot> ACTION received:  nhandler will manage the topic for the channel to ensure that notice is given that the channel is logged
<cprofitt> [TOPIC] Re-purpose #ubunt-beginners-team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Re-purpose #ubunt-beginners-team
<cprofitt> nhandler: go
<nhandler> Basically, I proposed turning #ubuntu-beginners-team into how the old #ubuntu-beginners channel used to be. The only exception would be that it would be CoC-compliant. We could then shut down ##cabaret (or break all ties to it)
<cjohnston> +1
<lukjad86> I'd support that
<lukjad86> If fact, I pretty much treat it as such. :)
<nhandler> It didn't really have any criticism or objections on the ML. Are there any now?
<Silver_Fox_> I miss the chatter from the channel.
<pleia2> lukjad86: yeah, me too
<jgoguen> +1 Silver_Fox_, it's not as lively as it once was
<Silver_Fox_> Now very few speak :( Not a community atmosphere in my opinion
<nhandler> If there are no objections/comments/questions, we can move to a vote
<PabloRubianes> Silver_Fox_: +1
<cprofitt> +1 to needing more community atmosphere
<cprofitt> will this channel be logged?
<nhandler> cprofitt: Not right now
<Silver_Fox_> o/
<nhandler> I don't think many people would appreciate it being logged if it is more social
<nhandler> Go Silver_Fox_
<cprofitt> + 1 nhandler
<cprofitt> that is why I was asking
<Silver_Fox_> RE:  Logging this channel.  will this be made into another item to vote on in a different meeting if needed?
<lukjad86> nhandler +1 to the no logging
 * cjohnston thinks it should be logged for when official things are spoken of... 
<nhandler> Silver_Fox_ If it seems that people wish for it to be logged, it might get voted on in the future.
<Silver_Fox_> Thank you for clarification nhandler  :)
<nhandler> cjohnston: We have private logs if necessary
<nhandler> Can we vote on the proposal?
<cprofitt> any more comments before moving to a vote
<lukjad86> non
<cprofitt> [VOTE] #ubuntu-beginners-team will be a more social environment - #cabaret will be deprecated - #ubuntu-beginners-team will not be logged
<MootBot> Please vote on:  #ubuntu-beginners-team will be a more social environment - #cabaret will be deprecated - #ubuntu-beginners-team will not be logged.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<cjohnston> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cjohnston. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<cprofitt> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cprofitt. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<pleia2> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<Silver_Fox_> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Silver_Fox_. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<lukjad86> +1
<nhandler> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from lukjad86. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<MootBot> +1 received from nhandler. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<MootBot> Private +1 vote received. 7 for, 0 against, 0 have abstained. Count is now 7
<MootBot> Private abstention received. 7 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Count is now 7
<cprofitt> any more votes
<cprofitt> last call for votes
<cprofitt> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 7 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 7
<nhandler> I'll talk to bodhi to sort out ##cabaret. Does someone want to send out an email to the ML.
<cprofitt> [AGREED] #ubuntu-beginners-team will be a more social environment - #cabaret will be deprecated - #ubuntu-beginners-team will not be logged
<MootBot> AGREED received:  #ubuntu-beginners-team will be a more social environment - #cabaret will be deprecated - #ubuntu-beginners-team will not be logged
<cjohnston> o/
<cprofitt> [ACTION] cjohnston will send a message to the list about the irc channel changes
<MootBot> ACTION received:  cjohnston will send a message to the list about the irc channel changes
<cprofitt> thanks cjohnston
<cjohnston> yup
<cprofitt> [TOPIC] Council and Focus Group Leader Elections
<MootBot> New Topic:  Council and Focus Group Leader Elections
<cprofitt> go nhandler
<nhandler> Basically, it is time for Council elections. I sent a basic plan to the ML
<nhandler> CIVS pretty much has to be used until LP gains more features for votes
<nhandler> The only item of my plan that is still getting sorted out is how to generate the short list of nominees
<cprofitt> nhandler: I would like to hold on the elections until we have settled the method for voting
<nhandler> cprofitt: This is separate from the other voting stuff
<cprofitt> I am hoping we can do that by the next meeting -- is that enough time?
<nhandler> CIVs *needs* to be used
<cjohnston> I would like to see elections happen with release cycles.. so it needs to be started
<Silver_Fox_> o/
<cprofitt> go Silver_Fox_
<nhandler> cjohnston: bodhi proposed Coucnil elections with each LTS release
<cprofitt> nhandler: how can we say CIVS must or needs to be used if the team has not decided to use it?
<cjohnston> nhandler: right.. what im saying is if we hold off, it wont happen with the lts imo
<Silver_Fox_> @ cjohnston would that be the new council begins the election process when new LTS released or is up and running ?
<nhandler> cprofitt: The other proposed options were LP or a bot. Neither of which would work for the type of vote required to elect a council
<cprofitt> nhandler: I agree...
<cjohnston> Silver_Fox_: my recomendation would be that the vote happen the meeting the month of the release.. and then release time is when the actual change happens
<nhandler> Silver_Fox_: The new council's term would start with the LTS release
<cprofitt> but until the team has agreed -- can we really force the issue?
<Silver_Fox_> Then election needs to happen now then :)
<Hellow> cprofitt, There's not a better option than CIVS, from what I can tell.
<cjohnston> Silver_Fox_: agreed.. next month
<nhandler> cprofitt: Due to technical limitations of the others, I believe there is no decision to vote on wrt voting method
<cprofitt> by May 1st then?
<cprofitt> nhandler: I agree...
<cjohnston> vote to happen the week of the april meeting imo
<nhandler> cjohnston Silver_Fox_: It is more than a simple vote, it will take a few weeks to do
<cprofitt> just curious if the team needs to accept that or if we have the authority as the council to make a decision
<Hellow> nhandler, Indeed, I believe we need to at least begin starting it now.
<Silver_Fox_> I imagine it would do nhandler
<cprofitt> Council to assume by May 1st with April meeting for vote?
<nhandler> Hellow: If my plan is approved, I would get the ball rolling after the meeting
<nhandler> cprofitt: The vote will not be at a meeting
<Silver_Fox_> Sooner the better as far as I am concerned in getting it sorted out
<cprofitt> so -- as a group we need to decide to use CIVS
<cprofitt> that is the vote for tonight; correct?
<cjohnston> its just for one vote
<cprofitt> ok... CIVS for Council and FG lead vote
<cjohnston> there doesnt need to be a decision on what to use
<cprofitt> that the right vote?
<Hellow> cprofitt, I don't think there's another option currently.
<nhandler> +1 Hellow
<cprofitt> actually cjohnston nhandler is saying we do have to choose
<cprofitt> tonight
<cprofitt> to make the time
<nhandler> Basically, the vote is for my plan on the whole process
<cprofitt> if I am following
<cprofitt> this would be a one-time vote decision
<cjohnston> the vote is to go forward with the plan
<cjohnston> not voting how to vote
<nhandler> The short list details will get sorted out by the council
<cprofitt> from then after the officially adopted solution would be used
<cprofitt> nhandler: please confirm
<cprofitt> we would vote on using CIVS for electing the new council and FG leads for usein an April vote
<cprofitt> yes?
<nhandler> cprofitt: No. CIVS needs to be used for these types of elections. The normal decision making vote is completely separate
<nhandler> We are voting to approve https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-beginners/2010-February/000445.html
<cprofitt> ok... so we are just voting to have a vote
<cprofitt> and the method will be chosen later
<lukjad86> Again? hah
<cprofitt> (even though there are no options)
<nhandler> cprofitt: We are voting to go forward with the proposed process
<cjohnston> We are voting to go ahead with the plan of how to do this..
<cjohnston> The plan has not been voted on yet..
<cprofitt> 1) Users nominate people by sending an email to
<cprofitt> ubuntu-beginners-council@ or PMing a current council member. Only
<cprofitt> current BT members can make nominations, and the BT Council will
<cprofitt> confirm that any users who are nominated by another person accept the
<cprofitt> nomination.
<cprofitt> 2) All nominees should update their wiki pages and collect
<cprofitt> testimonials (preferably from BT members) during this time.
<cprofitt> 3) The BT Council will create a short list of nominees (We can
<cprofitt> determine the size of this short list later).
<cprofitt> 4) The Council will create a poll for all BT members to vote (we can
<cprofitt> use CIVS like they did for the CC election)
<cprofitt> so that is the plan nhandler?
<nhandler> cprofitt: Yes
<cprofitt> k
<Silver_Fox_> Please don't do that again cprofitt :)
<cprofitt> can you update the meeting page please -- that was not on there and it should have been
<cprofitt> make it #3
<nhandler> cprofitt: The plan was sent to the ML to be discussed at it should have been
<cprofitt> did everyone get a chance to read the link?
<cjohnston> yes
<cprofitt> nhandler: we also need to add that to the meeting page
<Silver_Fox_> I have read it.
<cprofitt> ok...
<lukjad86> eyah
<cprofitt> [VOTE] The BT team will hold elections for Council and FG Leadership positions using the system included on the Fri Feb 5 23:12:36 GMT 2010 mail to the mailing list
<MootBot> Please vote on:  The BT team will hold elections for Council and FG Leadership positions using the system included on the Fri Feb 5 23:12:36 GMT 2010 mail to the mailing list.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<cprofitt> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cprofitt. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<lukjad86> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from lukjad86. 1 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1
<Hellow> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Hellow. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2
<pleia2> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3
<cjohnston> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cjohnston. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 4
<Silver_Fox_> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Silver_Fox_. 5 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 5
<nhandler> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nhandler. 6 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 6
<cprofitt> any more votes?
<lukjad86> I don't think so
<cprofitt> last call for votes
<cprofitt> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 6
<nhandler> I can get the ball rolling for this
<cprofitt> [AGREED] The BT team will hold elections for Council and FG Leadership positions using the system included on the Fri Feb 5 23:12:36 GMT 2010 mail to the mailing list
<MootBot> AGREED received:  The BT team will hold elections for Council and FG Leadership positions using the system included on the Fri Feb 5 23:12:36 GMT 2010 mail to the mailing list
<cjohnston> nhandler: do you need help with it?
<cprofitt> [ACTION] nhandler will communicate with the team about  elections for Council and FG Leadership positions using the system included on the Fri Feb 5 23:12:36 GMT 2010 mail to the mailing list
<MootBot> ACTION received:  nhandler will communicate with the team about  elections for Council and FG Leadership positions using the system included on the Fri Feb 5 23:12:36 GMT 2010 mail to the mailing list
<nhandler> cjohnston: We'll see
<cprofitt> thanks nhandler
 * nhandler goes to dinner
<cprofitt> thanks everyone for attending the meeting
<cprofitt> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 18:53.
<lukjad86> Bai all
 * lukjad86 goes to cocoa
<PabloRubianes> bye... dinner
<Silver_Fox_> au revoir
<jiboumans> o/
<hggdh> ~0~
<zul> jambo
<nijaba> jambo bwana
<smoser> |o
<sommer> o//
<zul> nijaba: grrr now i have that song in my head
<nijaba> zul: akuna, akuna matata
<kirkland`> o/
<ttx> o/
<alexm> o/
<ttx> OK, let's get started...
<jmdault> o/
<ttx> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 08:00. The chair is ttx.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<mjeanson> o/
<ttx> Our beloved leader is stuck in boring calls, so i'll chair
<ttx> I'll also scribe today, lucky me.
<ttx> Agenda is at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<ttx> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
 * jjohansen1 waves
<ttx> ACTION: kirkland to publish tentative bugzapping roadmap
<kirkland`> ttx: done, though, i should probably update it
<ttx> kirkland`: ack
<ttx> [TOPIC] Beta1 status review (ttx)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Beta1 status review (ttx)
<ttx> So we are at the beginning of the beta1 subcycle... but not very far from the end of it
<ttx> Especially I wanted to bring your attention to Beta1Freeze, which is Thursday next week
<ttx> It's a hard freeze this time... so better get your features in before that date
<ttx> s/features/bugfixes/
<ttx> smoser: how is EBS root coming along ?
<smoser> i got all the tools (i think) moved over to using the new api tools
<smoser> which is a requirement.
<smoser> no ebs root volumes yet, but... crossing fingers, hopefully soon
<ttx> smoser: maybe you should have a work item about that new API tool prerequisite, that you could mark done ?
<smoser> i can... i left it in progress to see if todays builds fell all over the floor
<ttx> smoser: ok
<smoser> there is a item
<ttx> smoser: ok, good then :)
<ttx> No other questions, anyone wants to report blockage / issues ?
<zul> nope
<ttx> For reference, tracking is at http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-server-ubuntu-10.04-beta-1.html
<ttx> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<ttx> hggdh: hi !
<ttx> hggdh: how is it going so far ?
<hggdh> nothing new on my front, except the MySQL FTBFS is still there
<hggdh> (on the regression PPA)
<zul> hggdh: working on it as we speak
<ttx> hggdh: did you start looking into the UEC test rig ?
<hggdh> and I am happy kirkland` has put up the qemu event... perhaps then I get get the bloody thing to work on my laptop ;-)
<hggdh> ttx: no, did not have time. Today is a good day, though.
<ttx> mathiaz: could you help hggdh on that matter ?
<ttx> ideally, hggdh should be able to run the post-A3, pre-beta1 tests
<ttx> hmm, looks like we don't have mathiaz today.
<ttx> [ACTION] hggdh to ping mathiaz for access to the UEC test rig
<MootBot> ACTION received:  hggdh to ping mathiaz for access to the UEC test rig
<ttx> hggdh: anything else to report ?
<hggdh> the automated ISO testing Soren was working on is starting to take shape for me
<ttx> hggdh: good.
<hggdh> apart for that, no, nothing new on the western front
<ttx> Anyone with questions for QA ?
<zul> nyet
<ttx> mathiaz !
 * mathiaz waves :)
<ttx> mathiaz: <ttx> [ACTION] hggdh to ping mathiaz for access to the UEC test rig
<ttx> (fyi)
<ttx> <ttx> ideally, hggdh should be able to run the post-A3, pre-beta1 tests
<ttx> mathiaz: questions on that ?
<mathiaz> ttx: nope
<ttx> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)
<mathiaz> ttx: on my TODO list
<ttx> hggdh: thanks
<ttx> jjohansen1: hi
<jjohansen1> hi
<jjohansen1> we have bug 527208 outstanding
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 527208 in linux-ec2 "ec2 instance fails boot, no console output on c1.xlarge" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/527208
<jjohansen1> hope to fix that this week
<jjohansen1> it doesn't look like we are getting a pv-ops kernel for EC2
<mathiaz> jjohansen1: I've sent a request for creating vlan modules
<mathiaz> jjohansen1: for d-i
<jjohansen1> mathiaz: oh, I had missed that
<mathiaz> jjohansen1: is there a chance that it will make it time for lucid?
<zul> jjohansen1: is that with a pv-ops kernel?
<jjohansen1> mathiaz: yeah, that should be possible
<jjohansen1> zul?
<mathiaz> jjohansen1: bug 530459
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 530459 in linux "[FFE] Include 8021q module in the installer for VLAN support" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/530459
<zul> jjohansen1: the c1.xlarge bug
<jjohansen1> zul: no that is with the xen kernel
<zul> jjohansen1: oh suck..
<jjohansen1> yeah
<jjohansen1> mathiaz: thanks
<ttx> Anything else for kernel ?
<jjohansen1> I think that is it
<mathiaz> jjohansen1: I've sent a patch request on kerne-team@
<mathiaz> jjohansen1: I don't know if my message has been approved
<jjohansen1> mathiaz: okay
<ttx> [TOPIC] Server Papercuts (ttx)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server Papercuts (ttx)
<ttx> So I identified 14 targets for beta1, see https://launchpad.net/server-papercuts/+milestone/lucid-beta-1
<ttx> with a few already fixed, that leaves 10 papercuts to fix before Beta1Freeze
<ttx> That also leaves room for extra papercuts on the beta2 cycle
<ttx> so please continue to nominate them
<ttx> Please have a look at the beta1 targets and assign yourselves the one you can/want fix
<ttx> I'l ltry to get ivoks assigned to the bacula ones, since he has fixes in his PPA ready apparently
<ttx> the rest is free game
<ttx> Questions on that ?
<ttx> Only one bug in todays nomination review: https://bugs.launchpad.net/server-papercuts/+bugs?search=Search&field.status=New
<ttx> bug 211915
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 211915 in amavisd-new "Insecure dependency when using sql for Log Reporting" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/211915
<ScottK> ttx: There are a couple of amavisd-new bugs.  I'll be glad to give people advice on them.
<ttx> ScottK: noted, thanks for your help !
<ScottK> I don't have a time to really work on them though.
<ttx> I discussed bug 211915 with sommer, and he agrees it's a papercut and should be assigned to him
<ttx> So I'll accept it on those grounds, for beta2
<ttx> (a doc papercut)
<ttx> Questions on papercuts ?
<ttx> I migth bother you during the week to get all those assigned to someone :)
<ttx> [TOPIC] Bugzapping (kirkland)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Bugzapping (kirkland)
<ttx> kirkland: could you give us a quick update ?
<kirkland> ttx: sure
<kirkland> ttx: spent a lot of time on Monday triaging kvm, and a bit of time with upstream yesterday
<kirkland> ttx: actually, Lucid's kvm package is in *really* good shape
<ttx> kirkland: good to hear :)
<kirkland> ttx: there's a few packaging bugs, and one or two upstream bugs that i think we can fix this week
<kirkland> ttx: other than that, it's really smoking
<kirkland> ttx: i don't think i'm going to get around to libvirt, unfortunately
<kirkland> ttx: where there's a *lot* more open bugs
<kirkland> ttx: just not enough time
<kirkland> ttx: perhaps should tackle libvirt another week
<kirkland> ttx: besides that, i have a eucalyptus week planned
<kirkland> ttx: and outside of those 2-3 weeks, i'm going to need someone else (canonical or community) to step up and help out
<ttx> kirkland: should other bugzapping sessions be more loosely organized, to lower the barrier of entry ? i.e. not necessarily be a full week ?
<ttx> I mean, I can commit to a couple of days on a given package and try to gather momentum around it
<ttx> but not a full week
<ttx> would that be acceptable ?
<kirkland> ttx: honestly, i think the process is well designed for function/effect as is;  perhaps impractical though with the limited resources willing/able to contribute
<mathiaz> ttx: 3 days instead of a full week seems like a good option for lucid
<mathiaz> 1 day of bug triaging and 2 days of bug fixing
<kirkland> ttx: agreed, 2-3 days at least (per week) would be better than nothing
<kirkland> ttx: less than 2 days and I don't think we're actually doing anything different than normal bug triage
<ttx> kirkland: yes, should be >=2 days
<ttx> and >= 2 people :)
<kirkland> ttx: right, in that case, i think we can improve some packages and our bug list targets of opportunity
<ttx> kirkland: is there a wikipage where we can schedule future efforts ?
<kirkland> ttx: yes, the spec
<ttx> kirkland: shorter slots actually allow to target a single package rather than trying to group them
<kirkland> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-lucid-bug-zapping and http://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerLucidBugZapping
<kirkland> ttx: agreed
<kirkland> ttx: let me say one more thing ...
<kirkland> ttx: to our community ;-)
<ScottK> It'd be nice if someone would figure out why suddenly tons of people who have no idea how to configure postfix are installing it.
<ScottK> It seems tied to the Google Chrome packages somehow.
<kirkland> community: many of you work at places that use Ubuntu servers for production reasons, probably 8.04 LTS, and hopefully one day 10.04 ....
<ScottK> That's generating lots of noise in the bug tracker.
<kirkland> community: consider asking your boss/work for 2-3 days to focus on Ubuntu XYZ package where XYZ is the key package that your company/business/IT-staff needs working better in Ubuntu
<kirkland> ttx: </end message>
<ttx> kirkland: amen
<ttx> Any questions on bugzapping
<ttx> ?
<mathiaz> ScottK: yeah - seems related to google chrome beta packages
<ScottK> It'd be nice to get that cleared up so we can focus on any real bugs that might be there.
<ttx> [TOPIC] Update on Daily Bug triager: New,Undecided bugs (mathiaz)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Update on Daily Bug triager: New,Undecided bugs (mathiaz)
<ttx> mathiaz: o/
<mathiaz> I've update the daily query to be live
<ttx> mathiaz: link?
<mathiaz> and I just wanted to remind every one to spend triaging all bugs on the list once a day
<ttx> mathiaz: as opposed to the bugs opened the day before ?
<kirkland> mathiaz: can you remind us of the link?
<mathiaz> ttx: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase#triager
<mathiaz> ttx: yes - basically there aren't so many bugs
<mathiaz> so yes - focus on getting the list to zero any time of the day
<ttx> mathiaz: if everyone triages, yes
<mathiaz> that should cover all days opened the day before plus a few others
<ttx> mathiaz: ok
<mathiaz> there is a bit of backlog  - yesterday there were ten bugs left
<ttx> I just completed the ones opened yesterday
<ttx> but there was some backlog I didn't get at
<mathiaz> basically now there query is a live one
<mathiaz> so no stale data
<ttx> mathiaz: is it the one under "new bug" on the link you provided ?
<mathiaz> OTOH you some of the bugs opened the day
<mathiaz> ttx: yes
<ttx> ok, it's not the list I've been using today
<ttx> that list doesn't have the "date opened" column
<mathiaz> ttx: right - the previous list that were generated an daily basis
<mathiaz> ttx: right - the query is from LP
<mathiaz> ttx: the other page was a custom generated one, which means stale data
<ttx> mathiaz: ok
<mathiaz> ttx: the bugs on the new list are actually sorted by oldest to newest
<mathiaz> ttx: so start at the top and process one bug after the other
<mathiaz> if you notice that one of the bugs has been opened today, you can stop
<mathiaz> other wise you can just triage all of the remaining 4/5 bugs
<ttx> that leans the burden of clearing the backlog is onto the one that follows the slacker (or the absent guy)
<ttx> means
<mathiaz> IMO there aren't so many bugs and the most important thing is to set the importance
<ttx> mathiaz: that doesn't seem... right
<mathiaz> ttx: yeah - well - we're a team... we should work together
 * hggdh blushes, and begs pardon
<mathiaz> ttx: TBH there aren't so many bugs once the backlog is cleared
<mathiaz> ttx: so I don't think it will be huge concern
<ttx> mathiaz: ok, let's test that
 * kirkland agrees with mathiaz 
<mathiaz> ttx: if the number of bugs rises we can revisit the process
<mathiaz> that's all I had to say
<ttx> ok, other question son that process ?
<ttx> [TOPIC] Weekly SRU review: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase#SRU%20weekly%20review  (mathiaz)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly SRU review: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase#SRU%20weekly%20review  (mathiaz)
<ttx> mathiaz: hi again
<mathiaz> just make sure you have a look a the bug list on your respective day :)
<mathiaz> ttx: oh hi!
 * mathiaz opens the lists to check the accurancy of them
<mathiaz> the intrepid bug lists has bunch of nominations
<mathiaz> I think we can decline all of them, given that intrepid will be EOL soon and there aren't high priority bugs in there
<ttx> yes
<mathiaz> same goes for the jaunty list
<mathiaz> for karmic there is bug 276606
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 276606 in openldap "package update-manager 1:0.93.18 failed to install/upgrade: ErrorMessage: SystemError in cache.commit(): E:Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/276606
<ttx> mathiaz: that's only on -> karmic upgrades ?
<mathiaz> ttx: apparently
<mathiaz> ttx: I'd suggest to decline as well
<ttx> yes, looks like the bulk of people would already be affected by it
<mathiaz> any bugs worth accepting on the karmic nomination list?
<mathiaz> (the links for each list is on the Knowledge base wiki page)
<ttx> mathiaz: nothing from me
<mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase#SRU%20resources
<mathiaz> http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/fixedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/fixedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html
<ttx> nothing stands out as High Impact
<mathiaz> anythins worth SRU for bugs fixed last week^^?
<mathiaz> zul: bug 515740?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 515740 in php5 "Crash on using unitialized vals and __get/__set" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/515740
<ttx> bug 521085, but it's already accepted
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 521085 in samba "Samba 3.4.0 denies access to Roaming Profiles for XP Clients" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/521085
<mathiaz> that's all for SRU worth bugs
<mathiaz> from me
<zul> mathiaz: yeah
<mathiaz> anything else to add?
<zul> mathiaz: i agreee that should be added
<mathiaz> zul: bug nominated/accepted in karmic
<ttx> OK, anything else on the SRU side ?
<mathiaz> zul: hm well - should this be for hardy instead?
<zul> mathiaz: for hardy definently
<mathiaz> that's all for the sRU review
<ttx> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<ttx> Anything, anyone ?
<Daviey> As part of the ArchiveReorg that is being phased in, should we think about requesting ubuntu-server upload privileges?
<Daviey> (i intended to add this to the agenda, but didn't)
<jmdault> Asterisk again
<ttx> Daviey: that sounds like a laudable goal, yes
<jmdault> There has been two security updates since
<ttx> jmdault: planning an update ?
<mathiaz> Daviey: IIRC there is already a set of packages available for ubuntu-server
<Daviey> mathiaz: hmm, are you sure?
<mathiaz> Daviey: well - there is a server something defined somewhere
<jmdault> ttx: yes. testing at the moment
<ttx> jmdault: is it just security fixes or part of a more featureful update ?
<mathiaz> Daviey: the reason why we haven't looked at upload privileges for a specific ubuntu-server-* team is that most of the candidates were already core-dev
<jmdault> ttx just fixes.
<ttx> jmdault: ok, cool
<Daviey> ttx: the releases that are being tracked are only security or bug fixes, no new features.
<mathiaz> Daviey: in the long term there should be a specific -server-* team with upload priviliges
<Daviey> mathiaz: yeah, but it doesn't fit the new world order :)
<mathiaz> Daviey: right - there will a time where we'll have to come up with an -server-* team that has upload privileges
<mathiaz> Daviey: for now there isn't a pressing need for it AFAICT
<ttx> it's true we don't sponsor so many packages
<mathiaz> Daviey: I can sync up with cjwatson and report back for the next meeting
<Daviey> mathiaz: sounds good..
<ttx> Daviey: could you add it to next week agenda ?
<Daviey> i'm not saying the time is now that it is required, but certainly something that should be considered
<mathiaz> Daviey: I'm sure we'll hear from the spec in due time
<Daviey> cjwatson would be a good person to seek advice :)
<Daviey> ttx: will do
<ttx> [ACTION] mathiaz to sync up with cjwatson re: ubuntu-server upload team
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz to sync up with cjwatson re: ubuntu-server upload team
<mathiaz> Daviey: agreed - I've already had a a look at the set of packages in the server package set and they look sensible
<Daviey> it's just the seed, isn'tit?
<Daviey> anyway, /me defers.
<ttx> [TOPIC] Announce next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
<ttx> Next week, same time, same place
<ttx> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:00.
<ScottK> mathiaz: In kubuntu-dev we started with all core-dev too, but almost immediately added people who weren't.
<ScottK> (back on the last topic_
<ScottK> I think it'd be similar for Server.
 * ScottK looks for ivoks.
<Daviey> ScottK: he's behind you :)
<mathiaz> ScottK: right ivos would be a very good candidate (and the only one AFAICT)
<ScottK> So the fact that most people you'd start with are already core is not a reason not to make the team.
<mathiaz> ScottK: *ivoks*
<ScottK> I'm reasonably certain it's a feature to start with a team that doens't let anyone new upload stuff.  It's a good point of departure.
<ScottK> Then you can approve people.
<zul> *cough* smoser *cough* so I dont have to upload cloud-init for him
<cjwatson> good afternoon
<slangasek> morning
<ev> hiya
 * mvo waves
<tremolux> o/
<barry> howdy
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:02. The chair is slangasek.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<slangasek> Keybuk, james_w, lool: here?
<james_w> hey hey
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Meetings/2010/0303
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Meetings/2010/0303
<slangasek> hello :)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
<Keybuk> oh, that was weird
<MootBot> New Topic:  Lightning round
<Keybuk> couldn't type
<slangasek> order is: Keybuk tremolux ev mvo james_w slangasek cjwatson barry lool
<Keybuk> Battling with the kernel VT layer, Plymouth has swapped sides at least twice but I think it's on our side now and we're winning.
<Keybuk> It's truly amazing the number of invalid states you can put the kernel in
<Keybuk> --
<tremolux> Back/forward navigation history feature for Software Center is landed, woo!
<tremolux> Refactored PPAs/channel view code, it's cleaner and much easier to use.
<tremolux> Added partner channel support in channel views.
<tremolux> Fixed lots of bugs this week, emphasis on bugfixes needed before UI freeze.
<tremolux> (done)
<ev> fixing language page when in oem-config mode, moving intro page contents into the language page (and making translatable), fixing a bug in usb-creator thats breaking bootloader installation, hunting down a bug in the slideshow/webkit (hitting a security check in the latest webkit), removing the partition page progress dialogs per discussion in 336751, adding a progress message for wiping swap in the installer when using encrypted home
<ev> blocked on legal for the restricted-extras page.
<ev> (done)
<mvo> worked on software-center (plus django rnr-server), update-manager and upgrade testing, some a3 data updates (like command-not-found, app-install-data)
<mvo> (done)
<james_w> Tackling bzr-builddeb and import failures, and working with LP on building from branches directly. Going to be working on getting all my code in Ubuntu ready for release.
<james_w> (done)
<slangasek> following through on the team merge for ubuntu-release and motu-release this week
<slangasek> opportunistically converting the Debian Samba team to be bzr fans
<barry> \o/
<slangasek> working on getting casper to talk to plymouth
<slangasek> (done)
<cjwatson> done: landed rest of foundations-lucid-gfxboot-update; landed parted 2.1; playing with 3.0 (quilt) source format, mostly liking it; made grub-probe filesystem queries about 10 times faster
<cjwatson> blocked: nothing
<cjwatson> todo: take advantage of parted 2.1 to set up proper partition alignment; get back to beating on the kernel for console-setup/upstart
<cjwatson> (done)
<barry> Returned from Pycon on Friday.  Worked on Ratings and Reviews server; soon to
<barry> have another branch for merging.  Completed second and third drafts of PEP
<barry> 3147 (PYC Repository Directories); probably ready for BDFL pronouncement and
<barry> implementation.  Released Python 2.6.5rc1.  Not blocked.  EOT.
<mvo> rnr \o/
<Keybuk> cjwatson: in the process of reading about how the VT layer works, I have learned some things about console and fonts
 * mvo hugs tremolux for back-forward
<tremolux> mvo: :)
<cjwatson> Keybuk: http://paste.ubuntu.com/387692/ is my current probably broken WIP
<Keybuk> cjwatson: that seems sane
<Keybuk> cjwatson: will it matter whether the VT is in VT_AUTO or VT_PROCESS ?
<cjwatson> Keybuk: (er, sorry, should have continued your conversation in #u-d)
<slangasek> ok, moving on then? :)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Outstanding actions from last meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Outstanding actions from last meeting
<slangasek> I couldn't find any in the logs; correct me if I'm wrong?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Outstanding feature freeze exceptions
<MootBot> New Topic:  Outstanding feature freeze exceptions
<slangasek> anything else in the hopper that's going to need freeze exceptions?
<mvo> I will add one for the new python-apt and for ratings&reviews
<ev> (lool just swung by my desk to mention that he's on his way to another meeting, and cannot attend this one)
 * mvo will write them after the meeting
<slangasek> ev: ack, thanks
<slangasek> mvo: ok
<cjwatson> both of my freeze exceptions from last week are done
<cjwatson> I actually want to upgrade to parted 2.2, but I think that's essentially a bug-fix release - the only "new feature" in NEWS is more appropriately classified as a bug fix IMO :-)
<slangasek> heh :)
<cjwatson> (sane default alignment instead of NULL when disk topology info is incomplete)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Milestoned bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  Milestoned bugs
<slangasek> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=21446
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=21446
<slangasek> not sure if that's changed much since last week
<slangasek> still a number of good, familiar bugs there
<slangasek> oh, and the Kashmir issue :/
 * mvo fixed some!
<slangasek> yay!
<ev> yeah, anyone in here able to admin the platform list?
<cjwatson> I think all the high-priority foundations ones are on somebody's plate.  I'm less sure about <high
<cjwatson> ev: me
<ev> for some reason it put me in the moderation queue
 * cjwatson pokes listadmin
<cjwatson> fetching data for ubuntu-platform@lists.canonical.com ... nothing in queue
<ev> interesting
<slangasek> ev: I have at least one mail from you on that list about Kashmir
<ev> oh, cool
<ev> that's what I was thinking was stuck
<cjwatson> ev: are you still on the "wiping swap space" thing?
<ev> that I am
<ev> I'll have that sorted tonight
<cjwatson> cool
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Targeted bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  Targeted bugs
<slangasek> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+bugs
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+bugs
<slangasek> more good bugs there
<slangasek> any that anyone wants to talk about?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Sponsorship queue
<MootBot> New Topic:  Sponsorship queue
<cjwatson> bug 530071 came up today; there's a decent chance I'll be getting hardware suitable for testing it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 530071 in ubiquity "Lucid Default live-cd install fails with 4K sector / Advanced Format drives" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/530071
<cjwatson> it's just a continuation of the parted work already in progress though
<cjwatson> the only sponsorship work I've done this week so far has been to bounce a patch that needed work
<cjwatson> though I didn't see that bug 425650 was in the sponsorship queue - that will be resolved differently in the next upload
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 425650 in grub2 "Karmic: Re-generation of grub.cfg takes long time." [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/425650
<slangasek> there's a nice discussion about sponsorship process on ubuntu-devel right now; perhaps people who have a hard time keeping up on sponsorship (myself included) have some ideas to contribute there on how to make it better
<slangasek> speaking of hardware, does anyone on the team have hardware that works with sl-modem?
<slangasek> we got a bug assigned to us about the package being broken, I wondered with Brian whether this package even belongs in restricted if we can't support it
<mvo> slangasek: I *think* my old x30 may work with sl-modem
<Keybuk> all I need to do to have time to do sponsorship is have about 35% less work assigned to me for a cycle <g>
<barry> slangasek: what's sl-mode?
<barry> er, sl-modem
<slangasek> barry: driver for supporting certain screwball modems
<mvo> but I don't have to upgrade that to lucid to test
<barry> no screwball modems here!
<slangasek> there's even an FFe for a new upstream version of sl-modem, but it's incomplete :/
<slangasek> anyway, I've asked Brian to try to figure out how prevalent the hardware is in the hwdb, to see whether we should muster more resources or maybe boot the package from restricted instead
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Any business from activity reports
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any business from activity reports
<slangasek> nobody sent in any agenda items; any last-minute thoughts?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Good news!
<MootBot> New Topic:  Good news!
<mvo> rnr-server almost ready!
<ev> we've nearly sorted moving the greeter functionality into ubiquity
<barry> mvo: any word on deployment from IS?
<mvo> barry: yes, they want to do a code review first
<barry> mvo: that's entirely reasonable :)
<mvo> yeah :)
<mvo> otherwise it did not sound like they were much concerned
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Reminder for release meeting, if due this week
<MootBot> New Topic:  Reminder for release meeting, if due this week
<slangasek> I'm not entirely sure what this agenda item is supposed to mean
<slangasek> since we have weekly release meetings :)
<slangasek> reminder: we have weekly release meetings (?)
<cjwatson> I don't remember, feel free to remove it from the template :)
<slangasek> ok :)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<slangasek> going once...
<slangasek> oh, we need a chair for the next meeting
<slangasek> who's up?
<barry> i have yet to do one
<barry> btw, remind me what "aob" stands for :)
<cjwatson> any other business
<slangasek> any other bidness
<barry> ah
 * Daviey bids
<slangasek> ok, so barry to chair next week
<slangasek> thanks, barry :)
<barry> np!
<slangasek> anything else?
<cjwatson> I guess I'll do the release meeting?
<cjwatson> hard for slangasek to report to himself
<cjwatson> well, easy, but maybe not useful
<slangasek> yes please
<cjwatson> righto
<slangasek> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:44.
<slangasek> thanks, folks
<tremolux> thanks everyone
<ev> thanks!
<barry> thanks!
<mvo> thanks
<james_w> thanks
 * sbeattie waves hello to everyone waiting for the QA team meeting.
 * bdmurray waves and looks around
 * ara waves
<sbeattie> Due to a number of people being unavailable for today's meeting, we'd like to cancel it unless anyone has agenda items they'd like to bring up.
<hggdh> ~o~
<bdmurray> I had somebody contact me about joining the SRU verification team.  Is there any policy / guidelines about that?
<sbeattie> Yes; generally I like to see some evidence that that person understands what's involved in SRU testing, preferably via examples of tested SRU bugs.
<sbeattie> Something akin to bugcontrol's requirements, though a little less formalized.
<bdmurray> Hmm, okay
<bdmurray> In the future I'll send them to you then!
<sbeattie> bdmurray: that's fine.
<sbeattie> :-)
<bdmurray> unless you have your list of verifiers somewhere publically available
<sbeattie> oh, bah, looks like I missed a couple of membership requests when I was sick a couple of week ago.
<sbeattie> Any other items?
<sbeattie> Alright, I think we'll call it good then; please feel free to raise any items in next week's meeting or on the ubuntu-qa mailing list.
<sbeattie> Thanks everyone!
<ara> cheers!
<highvoltage> o/
<mgariepy> hi
<mhall119|work> o/
<highvoltage> let me see if I can find sbalneav...
<highvoltage> I believe stgraber is just finishing off another meeting currently
<stgraber> almost there
<alkisg> o/
<highvoltage> fader_: thanks for testing our iso images last week!
<fader_> highvoltage: No worries :)
<stgraber> ok, I'm here now :)
<highvoltage> our agenda for this week isn't very big or specific: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Meetings/Agenda
<highvoltage> stgraber fixed my bug with the icon theme, it didn't work because there was some whitespace at the end of the line that shouldn't have been there
<stgraber> one thing to be careful about is the UI freeze tomorrow so if we are still missing some icon themes from the CD, please give me the names and I'll get them there ASAP
<stgraber> same for the backgrounds and gdm, we should have these in very soon
<stgraber> there's also a big change coming, unfortunately I don't have the right to mention it yet
<highvoltage> stgraber: ouch. would that be at the end of tomorrow?
<stgraber> highvoltage: yep
<highvoltage> stgraber: while the uii freeze is important and evertyhign, I'm currently a bit more worried about the ltsp installation/livecd. Is there something I could do to get our squashfs image in? Am I justified in pesting lamont or is theere something that still needs to be done from our side?
<stgraber> so, as I was saying, something is coming that will likely impact our artwork a bit, I'll speak about it in #edubuntu as soon as it's made public. That means we'll quite easily get exceptions when there'll be need for some.
<lamont> [if there is something I'll need to pick up, like BuildLiveCD enhancements, a ticket into RT would be ideal)
<stgraber> highvoltage: the change is currently on my laptop, I'm happy to send you the diff so you can poke lamont about it as well. I can technically push it though I'd need to have it reviewed first and haven't had the time to speak with him about that yet.
<stgraber> lamont: hey !
<lamont> totally not here. :-p
<highvoltage> stgraber: ok, perhaps we can give that to lamont in an rt ticket and he can give comments/feedback there?
<stgraber> lamont: yeah, it'll just be a review of a change to BuildLiveCD and if it's fine I'll push it to the branch (it's in ~ubuntu-core-dev) and see what needs to be done to get it on the build servers
<stgraber> highvoltage: well, that's assuming you can actually follow a ticket on rt.ubuntu.com ... everyone having the same account there, I try not to use it as a way to discuss changes but rather as a way to ask for some changes to be picked up
<highvoltage> lamont: can we use a bug in LP instead?
<lamont> highvoltage: sure
<lamont> and assign it to me
<highvoltage> lamont: thanks!
<lamont> and yeah, rt.u.c would be less preferred than an LP bug
<stgraber> lamont: great, I'll try to have a bug opened today. What project should I file that against ?
<lamont> livecd-rootfs is the package, yes?
<lamont> bug in the package, assign it to me (and I'll open a ticket for dealing with scheduling my time to get it done, etc)
<stgraber> might be :) I'll have a look. thanks
<lamont> though hopefully it's not assigned to me until it's blocked by me
<lamont> (I already know it's coming, so I don't need a "hey we're going to file another bug in 2 weeks and need you to do this then" kind of bug..)
<highvoltage> I believe stgraber would have been quite thorrow and there will probably only be minor changes, if any that might need be done
<stgraber> yeah, anyway, let's continue our meeting :)
<stgraber> how are we doing with the actual LTSP live script ?
<highvoltage> I lost my original one, but once I have the squashfs image I think it shouldn't take long to get it working reasonably well, I was wondering this afternoon whether I should just get the squashfs image via something like sshfs and a symlink for now just so that I can get it working so long
<stgraber> yeah, that or an usb key
<alkisg> Is dhcp3-server going to be used? I do think that dnsmasq (=proxydhcp) is better suited for a live cd...
<alkisg> (already there in the live cd also)
<highvoltage> I think the liveCD part is going to be simpler compared to the ubiquity hooks, I've added scripts to ubiquity before for making changes to the target system at the end of installation, so I think having a window pop up over the ubiquity window that just asks "[ ] Install LTSP, [ ] Install Netbook Launcher" and then it wouldl install and configure it in the target system based on the user input would be fine
<highvoltage> alkisg: dnsmasq is great, but the server security doesn't seem to like it, seems that its security fixes (especially with the high profile dns security issues we saw last year) was fixed in dnsmasq way later than the other servers
<alkisg> highvoltage: it's *included* on the live cd since jaunty
<highvoltage> alkisg: I think it's a bit late in the cycle to make a bit of a sensitive change like that in this cycle
<alkisg> (or possibly eariler)
<alkisg> So it'll even save you from installing dhcp3-server
<highvoltage> alkisg: oh wow! I didn't realise that. perhaps we can do that then
<highvoltage> yes and it would be less services to start on a live medium
<alkisg> The most important part is, not requiring the user to turn off his own dhcp server
<alkisg> And it works fine with either 1 or 2 nics...
<highvoltage> alkisg: I assume you'll be willing to test and provide some feedback? ;)
<alkisg> highvoltage: sure - I even have an existing live cd implementation with ubuntu/ltsp 9.10
<highvoltage> alkisg: *nod*
<stgraber> yeah, I'm now allowed to mention it in public ! :)
<stgraber> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Brand
<alkisg> Whooohooo... nice themes
<stgraber> so basically, the themes will change, Ubuntu's logo will change, so will Canonical's
<highvoltage> I hoppe that's not the real metacity button locations :)
<stgraber> and we now have two guys at Canonical working on doing the new Edubuntu logo based on that
<highvoltage> well I guess the designers wanted to make it more apple-like
<stgraber> highvoltage: the themes I saw in London had the buttons on the other side
<alkisg> Ouch that will take some time to get used to...
<highvoltage> anything else for technical?
<stgraber> "other side" as in "right side" :)
<highvoltage> got that :)
<stgraber> so, for edubuntu it will likely mean that we'll (unless there's a strong oposition) need to update the website colors, we'll get the new logo using the same font and style as Ubuntu from the designers at Canonical
<stgraber> and we'll probably want to use that for our splash and GDM
<stgraber> as for the gnome themes, I'd like to have the same as Ubuntu being at least provided on the DVD but with variants for our icon themes assuming it won't be horrible :)
<highvoltage> *nod*
<sbalneav> Here
<highvoltage> welcome sbalneav
<stgraber> sbalneav: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Brand
<stgraber> sbalneav: I'll pastebin some log for you, hang on a sec
 * highvoltage waits in anticipation to hear sbalneav's comments
<stgraber> sbalneav: http://pastebin.com/YP7pRCag
<sbalneav> oi
<sbalneav> great, new theme.
 * sbalneav rictus grin
<sbalneav> I'm overjoyed
<alkisg> And compiz is now mandatory :D
<highvoltage> sbalneav: how do you feel about another bug day? should we announce it and allocate specific time for it or do you think it's something we should do more informally and do at a regular interval like, the last thursday of the month or something like that? (sorry if that doesn't make sense I had to take some strong pain pills earlier)
<highvoltage> sbalneav: yeah brown is history :)
<sbalneav> Just when I was beginning to get used to it.
<sbalneav> I think making "bug day" a nice "once a month" thing would be great, other than the fact if it's going to be regular, I'm not *always* going to be able to take the day off work to do it.
 * sbalneav sobs uncontrollably at alkisg 
<alkisg> sbalneav: don't worry I heard they still support that... what was it's name? ah yeah, "console" :D
<sbalneav> doesn't look like the logos changing does it?
<Lns> hi all =) sorry for being way too late..had a client appt run too long
<sbalneav> alkisg: unlike a lot of people today, "invoke-rc.d gdm stop" wouldn't slow me down too much :)
<alkisg> ;)
<highvoltage> sbalneav: it will need to be adapted somewhat, but the basic logos seem to stay the same
<stgraber> Lns: http://pastebin.com/YP7pRCag
<Lns> thx stgraber
<highvoltage> ~13 minutes left. anything else?
<highvoltage> I'll talk to Hedgemadge regarding the web theme
<stgraber> highvoltage: great, thanks
<highvoltage> I talked to heer a bit earlier today and she hadn't had time to do the final touches, I told her that that's probably better since we're expecting some changes but that I couldn't give her more info just yet
<dutchie> highvoltage: jono just blogged big changes
<highvoltage> I don't expect any big problems with the website, at least we're not bound by any freezes, it should be ready in plenty of time for 10.04, we should probably schedule a day for updates and things to the site once hedgemadge's version is up
<dutchie> you probably can mention them if that's what you're talking about
<highvoltage> dutchie: indeed, I'm aware of that
<dutchie> (not having read backscroll at all)
<jono> dutchie, cool :)
<highvoltage> dutchie: yes we can mention it now, couldn't do it earlier today though
<highvoltage> stgraber: I think that if the website is good soon, we have ltsp live and installer, and artwork sorted out we'll be pretty good for 10.04? or am I leaving something big out?
<stgraber> highvoltage: that's correct. We may want to spend a few hours to get a zenity script done to trigger post-install to install LTSP and/or the netbook interface.
<highvoltage> jono: I'm sure your blog is going to be hit *very* hard with that post :)
<stgraber> but yeah, otherwise it's all good for 10.04
<highvoltage> ok, seems like that's a wrap, let's take it to #edubuntu
<highvoltage> thanks everyone
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-03-04
<randa_> czajkowski: hola chica
<czajkowski> randa_: Aloha :)
<dpm> hi everyone
<dpm> welcome to this month's translations meeting
<dpm> as usual, let's see who's there... :)
<kelemengabor> I'm here
<Andre_Gondim> \o/
<askhl> I'm here
<dpm> hi kelemengabor, Andre_Gondim, askhl
<dpm> hey adiroiban
<adiroiban> 0/
<adiroiban> here
<dpm> ok, let's get started, then
<dpm> (I mean when the Meetings page decides to load on my browser)
<dpm> ok, here it is, let's talk about the first topic
<dpm> [TOPIC] Pending actions in defining Ubuntu Translations bugs handling
<dpm> Basically, we've been using the ubuntu-translations project in LP to handle translation bugs for a while
<dpm> we've talked with the bugsquad on how to best use it
<dpm> and created a joint team with the bugsquad, the Ubuntu Translations Bugs Supervisors, so that bugsquad team members have also got permissions to set the
<dpm> bug status as Triaged in ubuntu-translations
<dpm> So far it has worked well
<dpm> and I wanted to check that the process to file and handle bugs is by now well understood
<dpm> and that we've done all of the actions we talked about in recent times
<dpm> because then I'd like to make an announcement on the Planet on Ubuntu Translations bugs
<Andre_Gondim> Well here in pt_BR team I will teatch other how to do/use this way, before this we just use mail list to report it
<askhl> The Danish translation team already has a launchpad project for bugs in Ubuntu, https://launchpad.net/fjel .  Is this a more centralized equivalent?
<dpm> Andre_Gondim, great, thanks. Yeah, that makes things easier for bugs, but do not let this feel discouraged to ask things and siscuss issues on the Mailing List
<dpm> askhl, let me have a look...
<dpm> askhl, I think it's completely fine to have a separate project for bugs in a particular language, but if you see bugs that can affect all languages, you should file them against ubuntu-translations
<askhl> Right.
<dpm> going back to ubuntu-translations and bugs, from my side, I can think of two things which are still pending:
<dpm> * Merging https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/KnowledgeBase/HandlingBugs and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/KnowledgeBase/ReportingBugs
<dpm> * Decide on which tags we want to use
<dpm> Before going into more detail into those, can anyone think of any other pending issues? Or has anyone got questions about the ubuntu-translations project and its use for bugs?
<dpm> We've basically got https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs#Filing%20translation%20bugs as a higher-level explanation to direct users to file bugs against ubuntu-translations
<dpm> And I think it is fine in its current status
<dpm> Any comments, suggestions?
<kelemengabor> can this be made a bit more visible somehow?
<kelemengabor> this is the first time I see this section
<adiroiban> dpm: I will change â you can always contact the Translations teamâ
<adiroiban> to point to Launchad Ubuntu Translators Group
<adiroiban> kelemengabor: you get to this page when you click âReport bugâ in Ubuntu
<adiroiban> http://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu
<dpm> I'd love to make it more visible, but right now I cannot think of any other better place
<adiroiban> agree with dpm :)
<kelemengabor> adiroiban: oh, I never click the Report bug item :(
<adiroiban> kelemengabor: how do you report bugs?
<adiroiban> :)
<dpm> kelemengabor goes straight to fixing them! :)
<kelemengabor> :)
<adiroiban> right
<adiroiban> i forgot :)
<kelemengabor> no, I usually find the source package from the translation template
<kelemengabor> on which I detect something to report :)
<kelemengabor> but this is perhaps just me
<askhl> Can I systematically get all reports filed on the Danish translations?
<adiroiban> askhl: not realy...
<adiroiban> sometimes they are assigned to ubuntu danish team
<askhl> I would suggest using the 'official' ubuntu translators groups to manage bugs in each language
<adiroiban> and you can see all bugs assigned to a team
<dpm> askhl, not, unless you give them a tag, but generally, we tend to assign language-related bugs to particular teams
<dpm> as Adi is expplaining
<adiroiban> askhl: and we do use the official ubuntu translation teams :)
<dpm> askhl, we already do this
<askhl> dpm: okay, so I would be alerted, being a member of the Danish team, in spite of not knowing anything about the central bug reporting?
<dpm> only that perhaps no one has noticed any Danish bugs yet on ubuntu-translations
<adiroiban> askhl: yes
<adiroiban> as a translator
<dpm> askhl, yes, when we assign a bug to the team, the team mailing list gets an e-mail
<adiroiban> you don't need to care about how bugs are reported
<adiroiban> just check the bugs assigned to your team
<adiroiban> and fix them :)
<askhl> Great.
<dpm> anyway, just a quick note on kelemengabor's question, it might be that if you go to the source package, the redirect to the ReportigBugs page is disabled, so you can file the bug directly. I think that's ok (other than we should advertise the ubuntu-translations project better), since generally only advanced users will do this
<dpm> I think I'll prepare a blog post on Ubuntu Translations bugs for next week
<adiroiban> yes. if you go to a series or a sourcepackage, you will not be redirected to the wikipage
<kelemengabor> oh, I see...
<adiroiban> but the ubuntu bugsquad should know about âubuntu-translationsâ
<dpm> so, onto the pending points I was mentioning, I think I should just take care of putting the content from KnowledgeBase/ReportingBugs into HandlingBugs, and removing the "Brainstorming" section. I think most of the things discussed there have already been implemented
<adiroiban> and when they triage your bug
<adiroiban> they  will assign it to âubuntu-translationsâ
<adiroiban> dpm: +1
<dpm> adiroiban, they know by now. Since the joint meeting with them, we've been getting more and more reports from bugsquad members assigned to ubuntu-translattions
<dpm> which is good
<dpm> ok, then I'll take care of the page merging
<dpm> The other thing was tags, we talked a bit about them, put those we thought would be useful to use in the wiki page and we should perhaps discuss them
<dpm> I think we talked about getting rid of the i18n one, as we've got the project itself and it might not be that interesting to know which bugs are i18n-related. What do you think?
<adiroiban> since we have the ubuntu-translation project and we assign bugs to specific teams/persons
<adiroiban> I no longer find them useful
<dpm> what about the l10n tag? Do you think we should stop using them as well? (that's specifically the one where we assign the bugs to teams)
<kelemengabor> who uses these tags, and for what?
<adiroiban> kelemengabor: :)
<kelemengabor> I don't, but I'm usually just reporting bugs
<dpm> usually those who triage the bugs, if the reporter hasn't used them
<adiroiban> i18n should also have a bug task on the package
<adiroiban> by doing so, the developers are aware of them
<adiroiban> l10n bugs are assigned to translations teams
<dpm> I would still like to keep the needs-pot-on-build one and such, as I think they are useful to group similar bugs
<adiroiban> yes
<adiroiban> we can use then âon demandâ
<dpm> ok, so we agree on getting rid of i18n and l10n
<adiroiban> if you find them useful
<adiroiban> we can keep them
<adiroiban> like kelemengabor asked: who uses these tags, and for what?
<adiroiban> maybe we should define some âgoalsâ and see if we can reach them using tags
<dpm> ok, the needs-*, I use them, for grouping similar bugs :)
<dpm> any translations-related tags you think would be worth having as Ubuntu official tags?
<dpm> We've got them here, btw:
<dpm> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/KnowledgeBase/HandlingBugs#Tagging
<adiroiban> rather than making sure each translation bug is tagged
<kelemengabor> adiroiban: how about setting goals like "no bug tagged x can be open y weeks before release"
<adiroiban> we should take care of assigning them to translation teams
<dpm> adiroiban, yeah, I agree, but those assigned to teams are usually the easy ones, and fixed within hours (go translation teams!)
<dpm> I like kelemengabor's idea, but that we can also do with priorities
<adiroiban> we can keep needs-* tags
<dpm> i.e. no Critical bugs can be open y weeks before release and such
<adiroiban> cjk tag was useful, but now we have a team dedicated to those issues
<dpm> ah, I see what you mean with teams, not only the translation ones
<adiroiban> we can get rid of kubuntu/unr/xubunut/distro specific tags
<adiroiban> as we should target packages
<adiroiban> not distribution using them
<kelemengabor> dpm: I was thinking about bugs making i18n impossible, like the ones tagged with needs-*
<dpm> ok, sounds like a good idea. And it might tie in nicely with the other point in the agenda: organizing another Hug Day on translations
<dpm> we could set a goal for the Hug Day as well, not only triage bugs
<kelemengabor> having a Hug Day is a good idea
<dpm> most importantly, not all translators are into the more technical stuff, but many coordinators are the ones with the in-depth technical knowledge
<dpm> and it would be good if they especially would participate
<dpm> for the more involved issues
<adiroiban> when talking about bug, taging and triaging bugs, maybe we can ask the bugsquad for opinions. They whould have a good understanding of handling bugs
<dpm> triaging can be done by nearly everyone, so all translators could participate as well
<dpm> we asked them on the last meeting with them, there was some feedback, let me see if I can find the minutes...
<adiroiban> i'm not saying that only bugsquad should handle bugs
<StupidStudios> Hello?
<StupidStudios>  
<StupidStudios>  
<StupidStudios>  
<StupidStudios>  
<StupidStudios>  
<StupidStudios>  
<StupidStudios>   
<StupidStudios>  
<StupidStudios>  
<StupidStudios>  
<StupidStudios>  
<StupidStudios>  
<StupidStudios>  
<StupidStudios>  
<adiroiban> but maybe we can get some feedback regarding bug handling process
<StupidStudios> crap.
<StupidStudios> SCREW YOU!
<vorian> !ops | StupidStudios
<ubottu> StupidStudios: Help! Seveas, Hobbsee, LjL, ompaulafk, Keybuk, mdz, sabdfl, janimo, ogra, mdke, dholbach, or jono
<StupidStudios>                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
<StupidStudios>                                                                                                                                                                                     
<StupidStudios>                                                                                                                                                                                     
<dpm> thanks vorian
<dpm> anyway, today I must go a bit earlier, I've got a session on Opportunistic Developer Week
<vorian> np. Pici did the hard work
<dpm> what would you think of a Hug Day in let's say ~1 or 2 weeks?
<dpm> on ubuntu-translations, that is
<kelemengabor> dpm: after Gnome 2.30 is out, it's fine for me :)
<kelemengabor> wait, that's a bit late...
<dpm> that'd be in 4 weeks
<kelemengabor> 2 weeks then
<dpm> ok, let me find a date, and I'll comment it on the ML
<kelemengabor> on the 20th?
<dpm> and check out with the bugsquad
<dpm> that's a Saturday, I'm not sure everyone will be there on the weekend
<kelemengabor> anyway, 250 bugs is too much for my nerves to live with :)
<dpm> and we might end up doing the Catalan UGJ on the 20th anyway
<dpm> :)
<dpm> Let me see if I can suggest a date and we continue the discussion on the ML
<dpm> ok, I must run today, so as usual, thanks a lot for the participation in today's Translations meeting, and see you around!
<askhl> See you
<Andre_Gondim> ;)
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-03-05
<slangasek> good morning
 * fader_ waves.
<ttx> slangasek: o/
 * fader_ is filling in for marjo today.
<ogra> moop
<pitti> \o
<ScottK> o/
<Riddell> hola
<asac> o/
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:01. The chair is slangasek.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2010-03-05
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2010-03-05
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Actions from previous meetings
<MootBot> New Topic:  Actions from previous meetings
 * apw appears
<slangasek>   * QA Team to retest Kubuntu desktop after ubiquity uploads
<slangasek>   * slangasek to record server-lucid-ec2-ebsroot work items related to ISO testing integration
<slangasek>   * seb128 to check on status of outstanding a3 wi for desktop-lucid-new-firefox-support-model
<slangasek>   * davidbarth to check on budget status of dx-lucid-netbook-launcher-startup-speed
<slangasek>   * ScottK, slangasek to review python sync/merge candidates ~Mar 12
<fader_> slangasek: Ara has been performing some of the tests of the pairwise testing efforts.  You can check results at:
<fader_> http://pairwise.qa.ubuntu.com
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://pairwise.qa.ubuntu.com
<fader_> As you can see, Kubuntu ubiquity crashes in both i386 & amd64, so we couldn't perform any of tests for Kubuntu fixes, but we could catch some
<fader_> new bugs, confirmed others, and we have been communicating those to the installer team.
<Riddell> it does?  how do i see that?
<fader_> Riddell: The bugs column on the right has links to the relevant bugs in LP
<slangasek> bug #532533?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 532533 in ubiquity "Kubuntu ubiquity crashed after selecting the language" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/532533
<slangasek> (targeted)
<pitti> slangasek: outstanding firefox-support-model WI is done
<slangasek> pitti: ta
<slangasek> ebsroot> still outstanding on my end
<pitti> startup speed budget> was quite okay until yesterday, but regressed a bit; was discussed this morning, they are investigating
<slangasek> davidbarth: did you have a chance to check where netbook-launcher is on its bootspeed budget?
<davidbarth> slangasek: hi; yes
<pitti> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/bootcharts/daniel-lucid-20100303-1.png was perfect :)
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/bootcharts/daniel-lucid-20100303-1.png was perfect :)
<davidbarth> slangasek: unfortunately we don't pass; same as for desktop where gnome-panel and the rest of that inftrastructure slows us down
<davidbarth> saw that with seb128 and didrocks and there's not much else we can do at this stage
<pitti> yes, desktop is a lost cause due to compiz mainly
<pitti> it's 16 s; we can make significant gains by switching to metacity; but it's not on the lucid plan any more
<slangasek> yes, we're not concerned with desktop, only with netbook
<slangasek> you'd better not be saying that netbook is a lost cause :)
<davidbarth> slangasek: didrocks still has a few tricks up his sleeve to get 1s back
<pitti> 1s! wow
<slangasek> 1s?
<pitti> I still know about the background caching in ubiquity (branch merge proposal pending)
<apw> 10%
<davidbarth> possibly, yes we're still loading some things multiple times and that may help
<pitti> that should buy some .3 s
<pitti> davidbarth: ah, nice
<davidbarth> but to conclude on that, i think that goal should be marked deferred to L+1 due to the infratructure we're still using with that version of the netbook launcher
<slangasek> what goal should be marked as deferred?  the bootspeed goal?
<cjwatson> I'm going to do the background caching in ubiquity today
<cjwatson> or merge didrocks' work anyway
<slangasek> ok, I've had it clarified that the netbook-launcher is not being used as the reference for the 10s boot, so I don't think we need to spend more time discussing this
<pitti> so, we optimized the startup and GNOME infrastructure, but not gnome-panel/compiz themselves
 * slangasek nods
<pitti> since they are going to be replaced in 10.10, and bringing them into the budget would mean to rewrite them from scratch
<slangasek> [TOPIC] QA Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Team
<fader_> Hardware testing:
<fader_> http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
<fader_> Netbook:
<fader_>  passed:   10 (77%)    failed: 1 (8%)   untested: 2 (15%)
<fader_> Laptop:
<fader_>  passed:   30 (100%)   failed: 0 (0%)   untested: 0 (0%)
<fader_> Server:
<fader_>  passed:   56 (95%)    failed: 0 (0%)   untested: 3 (5%)
<fader_> Desktop:
<fader_>  passed:   11 (92%)    failed: 0 (0%)   untested: 1 (8%)
<fader_> We have also begun a round of manual tests on the laptops in the lab.
<fader_> http://people.canonical.com/~fader/milestones/lucid/alpha3.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~fader/milestones/lucid/alpha3.html
<fader_> alexmoldovan has been a rockstar on this, going through and running checkbox interactively on them
<fader_> Most of what we're seeing is the network manager applet missing (bug 520589)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 520589 in network-manager "Network manager icon does not appear in notification panel at startup" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/520589
<fader_> He found some other webcam and audio issues yesterday that we'll make sure to get bugs in for today
<fader_> Spec status:
<fader_> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-platform-qa-ubuntu-10.04-beta-1.html
<fader_> marjo says "By default, all 10.04-beta1 work items are on-track."
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-platform-qa-ubuntu-10.04-beta-1.html
<fader_> cr3 has postponed several items to beta.
<fader_> [that's it]
<slangasek> bug #520589> er. icon *missing*?
<fader_> Oh, I should add we're continuing the manual tests in the lab -- this report represents what has been done so far but there is more to go
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 520589 in network-manager "Network manager icon does not appear in notification panel at startup" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/520589
<fader_> slangasek: He's reporting that most of the systems simply don't have the network manager applet
<fader_> Several do, but most do not
<slangasek> pitti, davidbarth: do you know what this is about?  is this related to indicator-* support?
<slangasek> fader_: testing is with alpha-3 media?
<pitti> it's not indicator-ified; I had suspected the new theme, but the bug is much older
<pitti> first time I hear about this problem (never saw this), I'll put it on my list to investigate
<fader_> slangasek: He was testing with images from yesterday, so post alpha-3 builds by a few days
<fader_> There were some troubleshooting steps listed in the bug that I've asked him to take a look at as well
<slangasek> [ACTION] pitti to follow up on bug #520589
<MootBot> ACTION received:  pitti to follow up on bug #520589
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 520589 in network-manager "Network manager icon does not appear in notification panel at startup" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/520589
<pitti> fader_: so you can replicate this? there's no duplicates or other affected persons
<fader_> alexmoldovan: ^^ this was happening repeatably on multiple systems, correct?
<pitti> let's discuss in the bug, to not hold up the meeting
 * davidbarth reads back
 * slangasek nods
<fader_> pitti: Sounds good; my plan was to work with him on bugs he's found today
<fader_> So we'll be sure to get as much info as possible for that one
<slangasek> fader_: is there anything new to report regarding alpha3 tests?  (how are we doing on getting the reported bugs fixed, etc)
<fader_> slangasek: Nothing yet, other than it looks like hibernate is working much better now
<fader_> alexmoldovan has found some audio and webcam bugs yesterday that we'll file today
<fader_> I'll make sure to get you the bug numbers
<slangasek> fader_: sorry, I meant the report that rounds up all the ISO testing bugs
<fader_> slangasek: Ah, sorry.  I don't have any info on that one, so I think we'll have to ask marjo when he's back
<slangasek> as for http://people.canonical.com/~fader/milestones/lucid/alpha3.html, that lists bug #520589 for a number of units - did you say this is testing with daily images instead of the alpha-3 images?  I'm not sure that's appropriate
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 520589 in network-manager "Network manager icon does not appear in notification panel at startup" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/520589
<fader_> slangasek: Yes, it was with post-A3.  If you'd prefer we use A3 specifically for this I'd be happy to switch to that
<slangasek> fader_: I don't see the point of doing extensive "alpha 3" testing with a random daily
<slangasek> since apparently you're hitting random desktop bugs by doing this :)
<fader_> slangasek: The goal here was to get manual testing more than a3-specific testing
<fader_> slangasek: But you're right that it probably makes more sense to stick with one consistent image
<fader_> We plan to do another round of manual testing during beta; for that I'll make sure we use the 'golden' beta image from the start so we aren't getting a random daily
<slangasek> fader_: 530380 is targeted to beta-1 but has no assignee; who should take this? cr3?
<slangasek> bug #530380
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 530380 in checkbox "checkbox writes to .cache/checkbox/submission before submission completes" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/530380
<cr3> slangasek: it's on my radar, I'll assign it to myself
<slangasek> thanks
<slangasek> anything else on QA?
<cr3> slangasek: I'm waiting for a branch to land before tackling it
<fader_> slangasek: Nothing else from me
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Server Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server Team
<slangasek> fader_: thanks
<slangasek> ttx: hi
<ttx> o/
<ttx> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
<ttx> Updated a couple minutes ago for freshness
<jiboumans> o/
<ttx> Beta1-milestoned bugs:
<ttx> Only three left
<ttx> bug 499389, assigned to zul
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 499389 in bacula "karmic->lucid auto-ugprade test failure" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/499389
<slangasek> (the UHT server report)
<ttx> bug 519513, assigned to kirkland, in progress with upstream
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 519513 in eucalyptus "UEC upgrade from 9.10 karmic to Lucid fails" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/519513
<ttx> and the munin MIR dependency, bug 526480
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 526480 in liblog-log4perl-perl "[MIR] liblog-log4perl-perl" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/526480
<ttx> this one is blocked on MIR team review, assigned to asac
<asac> i am downloading it now
<ttx> asac: thanks !
<asac> sorry
<slangasek> ok, great :)
<ttx> Beta1 specs progress :
<ttx> High/Essential specs at < 40% completion
<ttx> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-lucid-ec2-ebsroot
<ttx> 27% -- Good progress, test deliverables should be generated soon
<ttx> soon as in "today".
<ttx> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-lucid-uec-testing
<ttx> 29% -- Good progress, not impacted by Beta1Freeze or release process
<ttx> some issues with the multi-network setup
<ttx> in a UEC configuration that's not so easy to test at home.
<ttx> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-lucid-daily-vcs
<ttx> 31% -- Good progress, not impacted by Beta1Freeze or release process
<ttx> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-lucid-papercuts
<ttx> 33% -- On track (one WI per week). 43% of the target bugs fixed so far
<ttx> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-lucid-eucalyptus-merging-and-packaging
<ttx> 33% -- On track (one WI per week)
<ttx> Bugs affecting server, in other teams:
<ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/506297
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 506297 in plymouth "Graphical Ubuntu logo enabled on servers, no more login prompt" [High,Triaged]
<ttx> slangasek: are we still on track to fix that one ?
<ttx> our servers look damn good though, now
<slangasek> multi-network setup> is this going to be addressed in time?
<slangasek> the plymouth fixes are later than expected, but that particular bug should shake out along with all the rest of the refactoring
<ttx> slangasek: I hope so. The fallback plan is to use the local test rigs to do that testing
<ttx> if we can't automate it
<Keybuk> slangasek: I'm in a good progress with that one
<slangasek> so there's no point in poking at it individually as long as Keybuk is still reworking plymouth's VT handling at large
<Keybuk> will probably hack over the weekend on it
<Keybuk> but it's good
<ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/524439
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 524439 in console-setup "needs porting to udev/upstart" [High,Triaged]
<slangasek> Keybuk: how soon do you think it will land?
<ttx> I think cjwatson is on it
<Keybuk> slangasek: by monday
<slangasek> Keybuk: excellent
<cjwatson> 524439> I have been doing little else for the last three days
<Keybuk> it's obviously just slow to test
<ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527208 (kernel)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 527208 in linux-ec2 "ec2 instance fails boot, no console output on c1.xlarge" [High,Confirmed]
<cjwatson> again, just slow to test
<slangasek> Keybuk: is there a branch it's worth having me help test / look at yet?
<ttx> jjohansen was hoping for a fix before EOW
<ttx> jjohansen1: any updated status ?
<Keybuk> slangasek: only in GIT, and I'd have to push that upstream - and it's not cleaned up yet
<slangasek> ok
<Keybuk> so I'd rather not, since fdo's git server only likes fast-forward pushes and stuff
 * slangasek nods
<slangasek> anything else on server?
<jjohansen1> ttx:  sorry haven't tracked it down yet, working on it
<ttx> jjohansen1: ok, thanks
<ttx> slangasek: no.
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Mobile Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Mobile Team
<slangasek> ttx: thanks
<slangasek> asac: hit me
 * ogra looks up
<asac> hard?
<asac> :)
<asac> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<asac> so I came back on Thu, so i started the rebuild for thumb2 yesterday
<asac> did that in a native ppa, but outcome was surprisngly good
<ogra> nearly 1/Â§ done \o/
<ogra> *1/3
<asac> we have 86/323 (not 100% accurate)
<ogra> nearly ...
<ogra> rounded ...
<slangasek> asac: hum, why in a PPA?
<asac> packages now build there ... will get them pocket copy and proceed in similar chunks in the archive on weekend
<ogra> ;)
<asac> slangasek: because i dditn want to risk loads of packages coming back as ftbfs, keeping us out of sync etc.
<asac> the ppa build worked well, so i will continue in archive
<slangasek> ok; further chunks will be in the archive so we don't have the pocket copy overhead, great
<slangasek> (human overhead)
<asac> https://edge.launchpad.net/~asac/+archive/armel1/+packages
<ogra> was just to minimize the risk
<asac> slangasek: found that cdrkit and cdrdao ftbfs on all archs
<slangasek> is 326 the total count of packages needing rebuild?
<asac> so some  postitivefall out
<asac> slangasek: yes, round about ... i think its 323
<asac> but far less than i initially thought
<asac> and 80 packages built within less a day on all archs ... so seems like we will get most done this weeken
<asac> d
<slangasek> excellent
<asac> assuming builders will be idle with everyone else doing weekend ;)
<ogra> well, plus possible ftbfs overhead
<asac> so i will file the bugs on the few packages that failed everywhere
<ogra> which will need manual intervention indeed
<asac> we only have one or two armel specific failures there atm
<slangasek> I see you're waiting on FFes; I'll make sure to look at those today
<asac> thanks
<asac> so the other big thing is openoffice "uno" investigation
<asac> michael is working full time on that
<asac> with ARM toolchain guys
<asac> he is probably going for a as-long-as-required sprint really soon to UK to get that nailed down
<asac> bug 417009
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 417009 in openoffice.org "all openoffice apps die in 'com::sun::star::ucb::InteractiveAugmentedIOException' on armel in karmic" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/417009
<asac> the other issue we are investigating is qemu breakage
<ogra> i suspect i found a workaround though
<asac> it seems like IO goes bad after installing loads of packages (didnt see that with small package set before)
<ogra> testing is still ongoing
<asac> its bug 532733
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 532733 in qemu-kvm "apt/dpkg in qemu-system-arm hangs if a big task is installed" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/532733
<asac> as ogra said, he might have found a workaround ... but we have to keep an eye on this
<ogra> right
 * slangasek nods
<asac> ok Image Status:
<asac> imx51 and dove in good shape
<asac> thats good news at least ;)
<slangasek> the rest of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid looks self-explanatory to me; any trouble spots we should discuss?
<asac> let me check
<ogra> likewise ?
<asac> bug 517300 might be something serbver team wants to keep on radar
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 517300 in likewise-open "[armel] likewise-open needs porting to ARM" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/517300
<asac> ack
<asac> and bug 512959 scares me a bit because it shows that there are still bunch of issues potentially hidden in the toolchain - lets hope that doesnt cause issues elsewhere
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 512959 in nautilus "causes crashes on armel with -Wl,-O1" [Low,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/512959
<slangasek> hmm, ttx is gone
<asac> michael has submitted a patch afaict
<slangasek> [ACTION] slangasek to follow up on bug #517300 with NCommander
<MootBot> ACTION received:  slangasek to follow up on bug #517300 with NCommander
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 517300 in likewise-open "[armel] likewise-open needs porting to ARM" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/517300
<ogra> slangasek, err, with the server team rather ?
<slangasek> right, a patch that he acknowledges is untested; I'll try to get him directed to our internal AD test setup
<asac> slangasek: remember that NCommander cannot really spend much time on that because he has to do the openoffice stuff
<slangasek> ogra: the server team doesn't have ARM hardware
<asac> so dont confuse his priorities ;)
<slangasek> the last comment says he would support the client side; do you want that part assigned to someone else?
<ogra> slangasek, the mobile team will happily help them but i think it makes sense if they drive it as the package owner
<ogra> slangasek, for submitting the patch upstream apparently things like copyright assignment are required etc ...
<asac> slangasek: i think he says he will help to test
<ogra> that should be rather handled by the team thats familiar with upstream
<slangasek> ogra: impractical unless you're giving them root access on ARM hardware somewhere for this
<asac> after they integrate the patch he submitted
<asac> slangasek: thats doable
<asac> if they dont need control over power knobs etc.
<ogra> sure
<slangasek> asac: also, should this really be a priority given that likewise-open is supported as a server component?  Are you expecting ARM server deployments in lucid?
<slangasek> [ACTION] slangasek to follow up on bug #517300 with asac/ogra
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 517300 in likewise-open "[armel] likewise-open needs porting to ARM" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/517300
<MootBot> ACTION received:  slangasek to follow up on bug #517300 with asac/ogra
<slangasek> there, action amended :)
<asac> slangasek: server is an interesting market
<ogra> we build server alternate
<asac> slangasek: we see multi core arm things with really low power
<ogra> we dont fully support them (yet)
<slangasek> anything else on mobile?
<asac> not fully supported, but we run the server image
<asac> and having that is good.
<asac> nope
<asac> thanks!
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Kernel Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Team
<slangasek> asac, ogra: thanks
<ogra> in any case we have a commitment to fix as much of main FTBFS as possible
<ogra> thanks
<slangasek> apw, ogasawara: hi
<apw> Overall Kernel Team status is summarised at the first URL below, including the items called out in the agenda.  Beta-1 activity is summarised at the second URL below, with those item pushed out shown as At Risk.  Our burndown chart is at the third URL:
<apw> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<apw> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid#Milestone%20ubuntu-10.04-beta-1
<apw> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-kernel-team.svg
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid#Milestone%20ubuntu-10.04-beta-1
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-kernel-team.svg
<apw> Of the pushed out items one has now closed.  We have dropped the lenovo-sl-laptop driver as it is confirmed as not required, this closed kernel-lucid-review-of-ubuntu-delta.  The AppArmor pam update is progressing but slowly.
<apw>  
<apw> For KMS are about ready to upload the drm 2.6.33 backport, testing is ongoing on the packaging for the transition.  Boot performance is progressing slowly, but out boot component remains on track.  The AppArmour upstreaming progresses, feeding updates into Lucid.  For suspend/resume we hav some new timeing patches applied.  Of the bugs on the list two are pending testing by users, and two remain under investigation.
<apw> </end>
<slangasek> drm 2.6.33 backport - is that being pulled in to the main kernel package?
<apw> yes, directly into the kerenl
<slangasek> ok
<apw> not a backport in the sence of lbm
<pitti> apw: I saw the bug today, and it sounded like it'd need another patch from trunk?
<pitti> apw: but otherwise, thanks so much for getting it so far!
<apw> yeah i need to change that one up and find out what happened with that patch
<slangasek> apw: "AppArmor pam update" - namespace collision?
<apw> there is an update to pam for apparmor in testing as i understand things
<slangasek> why does pam need an update?
<apw> jjohansen1, ^^
<slangasek> jjohansen1: we can take that offline
<apw> i'd have to defer to john on that one
<slangasek> we don't need to block the whole release meeting with my attachment to the pam package :)
<apw> hehe :)  ok
<cjwatson> are you guys tracking foundations-lucid-laptop-mode-tools-integration?
<apw> i have it on my chart yes
<jdstrand> I don't have all the details, but that should be the pam_apparmor module-- not all of pam
<jdstrand> beyond that, I can't speak to it
<cjwatson> apw: do you know if the remaining two WIs are likely to get done for beta-1?
<slangasek> jdstrand: hum, haven't heard of / seen this module before?
<apw> cjwatson, thouse two have been slipping, amit has been otherwise engaged this week
<jdstrand> slangasek: it's new
<slangasek> ok
<apw> i have not heard they won't make beta-1 but i will poke the nest and make sure
<jdstrand> well, old, but new to Ubuntu
<cjwatson> is it safe to slip them to beta-2, or would it be safer to defer them?
<slangasek> apw: thanks (that was going to be my next question)
<cjwatson> (I don't really know the details)
<apw> they look to be the only ones he has which are beta-1 metarial
<slangasek> the WIs are weak-FF material
<slangasek> implementing power management stuff we aren't currently doing by default
<slangasek> so I don't want that slipping to beta-2
<apw> slangasek, ack ...
<slangasek> anything else on kernel?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Desktop Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop Team
<slangasek> apw: thanks
<slangasek> pitti: hi
<pitti> Full report with weekly summary, RC bug status, and spec status at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<pitti> executive summary of desktop status:
<pitti>  - A few WIs moved from Alpha-3, but A3 was by and large a nice precision landing
<pitti>  - Beta-1 has a lot of WIs at first sight, but much of it is DX integration, and a good chunk are targets of opportunity
<pitti>  - Most pressing items right now:
<pitti>    * Fix DRM for ATI/nouveau by DRM kernel backport (bug 507148)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 507148 in linux "[lucid] desktop runs out of video memory on ATI Radeon Mobility 7500" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/507148
<pitti>    * Finish F-Spot image editing for non-imported images
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<pitti> ^ (that was just discussed sufficiently)
<pitti> called out specs:
<pitti>  - desktop-lucid-default-apps: Remaining important TODO is to get image editing into F-Spot without importing pictures (GIMP removal); Chris Halse Rogers is on it, making good progress. But this will land late and require a FFE.
<pitti>  - desktop-lucid-startup-speed: from the desktop side we call this pretty much finished, as in "that's as far as we can get". Didier still has a pending ubiquity merge proposal for background caching, and OLS team needs to defer sync daemon startup
<pitti> - desktop-lucid-new-firefox-support-model: Remaining one for Beta-1 is to identify extensions to be kept in archive; Chris Coulson has started in the team now and picking up this work
<slangasek> pitti: f-spot> how late?
<pitti> next week, I hope
<pitti> beta-1, in either case
<slangasek> ok
<pitti> it's a relatively isolated feature, so it can be tested thoroughly
<cjwatson> pitti: pending merge proposal> no he doesn't ... ;-)
<pitti> cjwatson: rockin'!
<pitti> that's what I get for preparing my notes before the meeting :-P
<slangasek> heh
<Riddell> Kubuntu?
<pitti> slangasek: the fallback, if that turns out to be infeasible might be to put back gimp
<pitti> slangasek: but I talked to RAOF yesterday (who joined the team now), and he's positive that it should be doable
<pitti> Riddell: I'm done, please go ahead
<Riddell> #
<Riddell> KDE integration patches for Firefox merged in, waiting on upload and on MIR 531848
<Riddell> # kdebindings now built on ARM (a workaround not a fix but good enough for now), with any luck we'll get images this afternoon
<Riddell> # New logo still being worked on by Canonical Design Team, this'll break art freeze in a couple of places
<Riddell> # Upgrade testing/fixing is the priority for next week
<Riddell> #
<Riddell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kubuntu/Todo
<slangasek> pitti: putting back gimp> surely we haven't left room on the desktop ISO for that...
<Riddell> # Fixed milestoned bugs this week *  526488 plasmoids overlap on startup
<ScottK> Bug #531697 has All Qt/KDE apps blocked on IA64.  It would be good to get someone to look at it.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 531697 in gcc-4.4 "ICE building qt4-x11 in IA64" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/531697
<Riddell> # 9 milestoned bugs marked as kubuntu http://tinyurl.com/yjybcx9
<pitti> slangasek: yes, it'd be 6 MB; but I don't think we have to
<ScottK> (sorry Riddell, thought you were done)
<pitti> uh, you actually care about ia64?
<Riddell> am now :)
<cjwatson> problems in basic libraries on ports do tend to produce a hell of a lot of build failure mails, at least
<ScottK> pitti: We've managed to build on all the ports archs for the last two releases.  It'd be a shame not to for the LTS.
<slangasek> Riddell: have the design team given an ETA for this new logo?
<Riddell> slangasek: hard to pin down these creative types, but they promised more on Monday
<slangasek> hmm
<Riddell> it's mainly an issue for the plymouth splash which needs to be implemented on the technical side too, but tseliot says it's not hard
<slangasek> Riddell: when they do give you more, can you ask them for an ETA on when they'll be finished with it all? :)
<cjwatson> Riddell: also gfxboot splash
<cjwatson> I imagine
<Riddell> cjwatson: yes, good point
<Riddell> slangasek: I'll crack my whip at them
<slangasek> thanks :)
<ScottK> cjwatson: If we don't get the ICE for IA64 fixed we'll want to go back and consider qt4-x11 binaries and all the rdepends on IA64 for removal under the unbuildable binaries spec.
<slangasek> ScottK: I didn't think we were doing per-arch removals?  That risks reintroducing bootstrapping headaches
<ScottK> Depends on how far down you go.
<ScottK> We'd consdered it just for Universe anyone on the theory Main would get fixed to build.
<ScottK> anyone/anyway
<slangasek> we can discuss that further offline if you think there's a need
<slangasek> (I need to make some headway on unsupportable binaries this week, to start with...)
<slangasek> anything else on desktop?
<ScottK> OK
<slangasek> [TOPIC] DX Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  DX Team
<slangasek> pitti, Riddell, ScottK: thanks
<slangasek> davidbarth: hi
<davidbarth> slangasek: hi
<davidbarth> report at the usual place: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/LucidReleaseStatus
<davidbarth> summary for this week
<davidbarth> gtk csd got deferred to L+1; judged too risky at this stage for an LTS
<davidbarth> cody and seb128 did an awesome job of fixing tons of issues, but it's an lts, so...
<slangasek> what's been deferred, precisely?  I thought the csd patches already landed
<slangasek> is it being reverted?
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/LucidReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/LucidReleaseStatus
<pitti> yes, they got reverted
<davidbarth> slangasek: it is reverted, yes
<slangasek> ok
<davidbarth> seb128 reverted the patch set
<davidbarth> the new theme does not depend on them, so the impact should be nil
<davidbarth> reporting on the blueprints targeted for the meeting:
<pitti> well, the impact is that the reversion fixes a couple of bugs :)
<davidbarth> dx-lucid-application-indicator
<davidbarth> 2 app ports remaining: hplip (print jobs) and vino
<slangasek> hplip, not cups?
<pitti> cups itself doesn't have any GUI
<pitti> that wuold be system-config-printer
<slangasek> well, system-config-printer ties to cups, not to hplip :)
<pitti> hplip has its own Qtish icon
<slangasek> ok
<davidbarth> slangasek: tracking the print job manager that does put an icon on the panel
<davidbarth> pitti: right
<slangasek> (yes, it does, but it's not installed by default and I never use it despite the HPness of my printer setup :)
<davidbarth> nice to have, UI change is limited; target of opportunity has pitti said
<davidbarth> the next one is more annoying:
<davidbarth> dx-lucid-me-menu
<davidbarth> missing dialog to set a custom status; implies 2 new strings and UI (screenshot / doc) change
<pitti> davidbarth: TBH, I wouldn't waste time on it
<davidbarth> missing about-me simplification; similar issues
<davidbarth> pitti: yeah, but as it's listed, so i do report
<pitti> davidbarth: wrt. me-menu, is it planned to not show the microblog input field if gwibber isn't running/you don't have twitter accounts defined?
<davidbarth> these 2 are also nice to have items; the menu works without them, but be better
<davidbarth> pitti: yes, that's a bug; ken indicated the api i could call to fix that
<slangasek> davidbarth: actually, the way the application-indicator whiteboard is set up, those app porting items aren't picked up as work items at all; if you mean them to be, you need to not have a blank line before them
<davidbarth> so on the me menu, i'll submit a finished patch next week for about-me and will fill the paperwork
<davidbarth> slangasek: oh
<davidbarth> slangasek: well, at least now most are DONE
 * slangasek nods
<davidbarth> the rest is for information on other BP:
<davidbarth> dx-lucid-messaging-indicator
<davidbarth> the beta-1 release completes the work on the new command items feature, with both static (.desktop based) and dynamic actions
<davidbarth> all string changes landed
<davidbarth> some minor UI tweaks required (arrow in menus to highlight currently running applications)
<davidbarth> dx-lucid-indicator-sound
<davidbarth> "output on mute" warning still being worked on; should be available next week
<davidbarth> dx-lucid-session-menu
<davidbarth> String changes landed (shut down -> power off) along with a set of patches for other modules that were using the same wording
<davidbarth> dx-lucid-notifications
<davidbarth> working on a patch for nm-applet to avoid spurious notifications when reconnecting (UbuntuBug:460144)
<davidbarth> err, the formating is not great; it's mostly in the report
<slangasek> is "power off" the new wording?
<davidbarth> slangasek: indeed
<slangasek> (gnome-session changelog said "switch off"; I haven't restarted my session since then, but if it was "switch off" I was going to have to file a buG :)
<davidbarth> ted tracked down occurences of that in other packages
<slangasek> because "switch off" is jarringly unfamiliar in en_US
<slangasek> but "power off" is just fine, so no problem!
<davidbarth> slangasek: hmm, i wouldn't be the best to comment on that ;)
<slangasek> anything else on DX?
<davidbarth> questions on the other blueprints?
<slangasek> none from me
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Foundations Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations Team
<slangasek> davidbarth: thanks
<slangasek> cjwatson: 30 seconds ;)
<cjwatson> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<cjwatson> as the server team would put it, "updated a couple minutes ago for freshness" - i.e. written in a rush during the meeting
<cjwatson> bug centres continue to be plymouth and ubiquity/kubuntu, both in hand but there are a fair few bugs related to each
<cjwatson> gfxboot splash for new brand delivered by design team for Ubuntu, pending integration (but I believe documenters are aware of the UI freeze break)
<cjwatson> remaining spec work is principally tidy-ups, aside from:
<cjwatson>  * language pack removal in oem-config
<cjwatson>  * hints file for support-timeframe-information
<cjwatson>  * Java and X confirmation for release-collaboration-with-debian
<cjwatson>  * most of supportable-binaries
<cjwatson>  * kernel work in laptop-mode-tools-integration
<cjwatson> the first of those is in hand, I gather the fourth is as well, the third I think is in sync even if not all the is are dotted and ts crossed, the second and fifth I'm unsure about
<cjwatson> but the second isn't (I think) b1-critical
<slangasek> third is in sync, but I haven't confirmed that there's a committment (even soft) to stay that way for release, which is what I want to sort before checking the box
<cjwatson> indeed
<slangasek> I think I'm pretty clear on the status here, otherwise; anyone else have questions?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Security Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security Team
<slangasek> cjwatson: thanks
<slangasek> jdstrand: go go go!
<jdstrand> o/
<jdstrand> I may be able to make the 30 seconds
<jdstrand> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<jdstrand> you can also see from http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-security.html that we are on track
<jdstrand> we are committed to the essential items from the first link. of those, the only item that is left is security-lucid-libvirt-apparmor-devel, which is mine and doesn't require a FFe. I hope to get to that within the next week or two.
<jdstrand> in terms of devel work, we are mostly in bug fixing mode
<jdstrand> (that's it from me)
<slangasek> great, thanks
<slangasek> any questions for security?
<slangasek> [LINK] MOTU
<MootBot> LINK received:  MOTU
<slangasek> jdstrand: thanks
<jdstrand> sure! :)
<slangasek> ScottK: hi, anything to say here?
<ScottK> Looks like that's just me today
<ScottK> ocaml transition in ongoing (waiting on the next round of syncs)
<ScottK> Python still has me nervous.
<ScottK> Nothing else.
<ScottK> Any questions?
<slangasek> don't think so
<slangasek> python nervousness>  we still have an action to review that status next week, so
<pitti> ScottK: I saw a ping to bug 530305 an hour ago, is there more to it?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 530305 in frama-c "[OCaml 3.11.2 transition][round 5/6] Please sync packages involved in OCaml transition from Debian (sid) to lucid (universe)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/530305
 * pitti will work on that now
<ScottK> pitti: That's the current action that I know of.  Thanks.
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<slangasek> anything else?
<slangasek> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:41.
<slangasek> thanks, all!
<pitti> thanks everyone, and enjoy the weekend
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-03-06
<nisshh> in here if #ubuntu-meeting is unavailable
<dutchie> it will be in an hou
<dutchie> r
<nisshh> y?
 * dutchie looks over the agenda
 * rudi ponders if I am in the correct place
<dutchie> cor, we'll never cover that in an hour
<dutchie> apologies for confusion, ubuntu manual meeting in 5
<dutchie> ubuntu manual meeting over in #ubuntu-manual
<rudi> dutchie can I leave this channel then?
<dutchie> if you like
<rudi> well i guess, if can always move back here if need be
<humphreybc> hiya everyone
<humphreybc> sorry i'm a bit late, almost slept through!
<dutchie> humphreybc: we're going in our channel
<humphreybc> kk
<semioticrobotic> ha!  most people are in the manual channel, benjamin
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-02-28
<marjo> hi ara!
<ara> hello marjo
<skaet_> hi ara, marjo, pitti :)
<skaet_> heh, gangs all arriving.
<skaet_> looks like we can get an on time start as the first few are here.  :)
<skaet_> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is skaet_.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<skaet_> Thank you to everyone who helped get 10.04.2 out the door!
<skaet_> This meeting will focus on the SRU interlocks and hand offs, and looking at where we are, and what's needed to get back in the cadence groove again.
<skaet_> [TOPIC] Kernel SRU status - sconklin
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel SRU status - sconklin
<sconklin> Current status:
<sconklin> Testing for ec2 kernels has not been completed, so
<sconklin> we held off uploading new kernels to build on
<sconklin> Friday. I am waiting for more information about
<sconklin> the ec2 failures but the last status I know is:
<sconklin> Lucid ec2 was thought to have a problem, but I have
<sconklin> been told on irc that it's OK. However, the tracking
<sconklin> bugs have not been updated, and until we get a definite
<sconklin> resolution, we'll hold off preparing th enext Lucid
<sconklin> kernels.
<sconklin> Maverick apparently does have a problem, but it turns
<sconklin> out that it may be a regression that appeared several
<sconklin> releases ago. I'm also waiting for more information
<sconklin> about testing results for this. If it turns out that
<sconklin> this is the case, we will have to decide whether to
<sconklin> go ahead and ship this kernel with the known bug
<sconklin> which is already in the field, or to hold Maverick
<sconklin> updates until the root cause is found. Since
<sconklin> Maverick ec2 kernels are a flavour built from the
<sconklin> master branch for Maverick (i.e. there is not a
<sconklin> separate ec2 source base), any hold to Maverick
<sconklin> must apply to all Maverick kernels other than
<sconklin> ARM.
<sconklin> I expect further updates on the ec2 kernels today.
<sconklin> Source packages have been prepared for upload for
<sconklin> Dapper, Hardy, and most of Karmic, and are ready
<sconklin> for building on the kernel PPA. We will wrap up
<sconklin> the rest of the Karmic packages today, and wait
<sconklin> to proceed until we know about Lucid and Maverick
<sconklin> ec2.
<sconklin> ..
<ara> o/
<skaet_> go ara
<ara> when are you taking the go-no go decision? who is doing the further testing on those?
<sconklin> I'm awaiting a status report from Stefan Bader about the ec2 kernels, should have it very soon and then will circulate that by email. He's testing right now
<skaet_> o/
<vanhoof> sconklin: please let me know once the decision has been made
<vanhoof> ..
<sconklin> vanhoof: Will do.
<ara> sconklin, OK, thanks. Please update the tracking bugs as well, there are people subscribed that will be interested
<skaet_> sconklin: can you list the explicit tracking bugs that we should all be following?
<skaet_> ..
<ara> ..
<sconklin> I'm not sure of the bugs releted to the specific failures in ec2.
<sconklin> The master tracking bugs are all listed here: http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/reports/sru-report.html
<marjo> skaet: QA team is tracking this one for Maverick:
<pedro_> bug 725089 might be one, that's the bug we found during our testing:
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 725089 in linux (Ubuntu) "QRT test-kernel-security causes kernel panic on EC2 AMD64 image" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/725089
<pedro_> ..
<marjo> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/725089
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 725089 in linux (Ubuntu) "QRT test-kernel-security causes kernel panic on EC2 AMD64 image" [High,New]
<ara> o/
<marjo> sconklin: that bug is assigned to jjohansen, is he the correct assignee?
<sconklin> marjo: Yes
<skaet_> sconklin:  the wiki pages has a lot of bugs listed, and it isn't clear to me on it which ones the status tracking are going on in.
<marjo> sconklin: ack
<skaet_> which specific one for maverick and lucid should I be looking at for this cycle?
<sconklin> skaet_: you can tell from the bug title:
<sconklin> linux: 2.6.32-29.58 -proposed tracker
<sconklin> for example. That's the master tracker for the -proposed kernel
<bjf> skaet_, if you look at the Maverick section, the one with the big red X icon next to it is the tracking bug which has a failure on it
<skaet_> 723335 	linux: 2.6.35-27.48 -proposed tracker
<skaet_> 		716532 	linux: 2.6.35-27.47 -proposed tracker
<sconklin> I think that th etracking bugs for ec2 should have been set to verification-failed, but they weren't
<skaet_> 		709352 	linux: 2.6.35-26.45 -proposed tracker
<skaet_> there are mulitple proposed trackers, which should be used, and when?
<bjf> skaet, you match the version in the title with the version in proposed
<sconklin> which is just above the bugs for that kernel on the same page
<skaet_> sconklin, bjf - will work with you offline then on the subject.   I do see now, but think if I'm confused, others probably are as well.
<skaet_> any other questions?
<skaet_> [TOPIC] HW certification - ara
<MootBot> New Topic:  HW certification - ara
<ara> hello again :)
<skaet_> :)
<ara> Our testing results for both Maverick and Lucid are going very well. As usual the reports can be found at
<ara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~hwcert/sru-testing/current/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~hwcert/sru-testing/current/
<ara> There are some desktops that are misbehaving, and we are troubleshooting them now, but nothing indicates so far that those could be kernel regressions.
<brendand> o/
<ara> Anyway, we will be updating the tracking bugs today, with all this information. But so far, thumbs up from us.
<ara> Also, tomorrow I won't be able to attend the Kernel meeting, sconklin, but the tracking bugs will be updated from us by then.
<ara> ..
<marjo> ara: thx, looking forward to it
<sconklin> ara: ack
<skaet_> brendand: go
<brendand> re: misbehaving desktops, they are behaving better now :)
<skaet_> ara and brendand,  thanks!
<skaet_> [TOPIC] QA status - marjo
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA status - marjo
<marjo> hi folks
<marjo> * Hardy testing done
<marjo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/KernelSRU-hardy-2.6.24-28.84
<marjo> * Lucid and Maverick testing
<marjo> - Lucid completed. lucid https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/KernelSRU-lucid-2.6.32-29.58
<marjo> - Maverick â regression found  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/KernelSRU-maverick-2.6.35-27.48
<marjo> - Bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/725089 assigned to jjohansen
<marjo> ..
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 725089 in linux (Ubuntu) "QRT test-kernel-security causes kernel panic on EC2 AMD64 image" [High,New]
<skaet_> Thanks marjo
<skaet_> o/
<marjo> skaet_ go ahead?!
<skaet_> how is this week going to work with alpha3 coming out for your team in terms of the new maverick kernel showing up?
<marjo> skaet_ will be challenging :)
<skaet_> marjo: ack
<skaet_> any other questions?
<marjo> skaet_ hggdh will be most affected, i.e. server ISO testing
<bjf> marjo, you are doing iso testing this week ?
<skaet_> bjf, yes, alpha 3 comes out on March 3rd.
<marjo> bjf: yes, natty alpha 3 is due this thursday
<bjf> marjo, next week will be the week for qa regression on a new maverick
<marjo> bjf: you seem surprised?
<bjf> marjo, not at all surprised
<marjo> bjf: yes, we will be available again for SRU kernel testing next week (after alpha3 is out)
<bjf> marjo, then i don't see where the conflict is between iso testing and maverick -proposed testing
<skaet_> [TOPIC] general SRU status - pitti
<MootBot> New Topic:  general SRU status - pitti
<pitti> nothign really noteworthy here, as we don't have a coming deadline for a point release
<skaet_> :)
<skaet_> how are the SRU validation backlogs doing?
<pitti> lucid still looks okay, as we flushed it for .2
<pitti> we have some 3 or 4 proposed packages which are very old
 * skaet_ nods
<pitti> (but that isn't unusual either)
<pitti> I usually give a warning for them in the bugs after half a year, and kill them from -proposed after another month
<skaet_> ok, wasn't sure of the pattern, and some did look a bit old.
<pitti> but that affects stuff like eclipse in lucid, not core things like eglibc
<skaet_> thanks pitti.
<skaet_> ..?
<pitti> ..
<skaet_> thanks,   sorry was commenting in the flow.
<skaet_> any other questions?
<skaet_> [TOPIC] OEM priorities - vanhoof
<MootBot> New Topic:  OEM priorities - vanhoof
<vanhoof> heh
<skaet_> :)
<vanhoof> news to me
<vanhoof> current -proposed, or next cycle?
<skaet_> next cycle
<skaet_> was the though,  but if you've got concerns right now, feel free to raise.
<vanhoof> we may have an interesting i915 patch, which needs a bit more testing, and then proper review ... that is the most pressing thing on my plate at the moment
<vanhoof> I'll know more once we get a bit more testing done
<vanhoof> as for the current -proposed, we're in good shape, just monitoring the release as it holds a few key bug fixes within it
<vanhoof> ..
<skaet_> thanks vanhoof!   questions?
<skaet_> [TOPIC] Support priorities - martins
<MootBot> New Topic:  Support priorities - martins
<Guest78155> just sent you a long list
<Guest78155> but for now, the status of the likewise open
<Guest78155> need to fix my id, this is martins
<zul> likewise open?
<Guest78155> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/likewise-open/+bug/534629
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 534629 in likewise-open (Ubuntu Lucid) "AssumeDefaultDomain does not work" [Undecided,New]
<Guest78155> yes, looks like it is commited
<Guest78155> I just need to understand if it will go into the next point release
<Guest78155> make sense?
<skaet_> Guest78155, can we get its priorities set  so it gets into the right focus queues?
<Guest78155> skaet_:  sure I will have it adjusted
<skaet_> thanks!  in addition to importance, please make sure its targetted to milestone 10.04.3.
<Guest78155> skaet_: I have a few others that I will want to cover with you off line, that is the one that I am tracking now
<Guest78155> skaet_: sure will do
<skaet_> Guest78155, sounds good.   Will work with you on it off line.
<skaet_> thanks for letting us know which is on your hot list.
<skaet_> any other questions?
<skaet_> [TOPIC] New business, last chance for general questions? - all
<Guest78155> skaet_: not now, I am good
<MootBot> New Topic:  New business, last chance for general questions? - all
<ara> o/
<skaet_> ara: go
<ara> in the StableReleaseCadence documentation the tag documented for tracking bugs is kernel-tracking-bug, but lately they have been tagged as kernel-release-tracking-bug
<ara> which one is the correct one?
<skaet_> sconklin, bjf ^^ ?
<bjf> ara, kernel-release-tracking-bug, i'll update the doc
<ara> bjf, thanks :)
 * skaet_ looks around for any other questions?
<skaet_> Thanks sconklin, bjf, marjo, ara, pitti, vanhoof, martins.
<skaet_> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:38.
<vanhoof> see ya skaet_
<ara> thanks skaet_!
<marjo> skaet: thx
<skaet_> thanks again,  will put out minutes for this meeting, and get an agenda present out for the next one.
<skaet_> minutes will be tomorrow though.
<jdstrand> o/
<micahg> o/
 * sbeattie waves
<mdeslaur> hello
<jjohansen> \o
<kees> \o
<jdstrand> alrighty, let's get started
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:13. The chair is jdstrand.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Review of any previous action items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review of any previous action items
<jdstrand> there aren't any ACTION items from last week, but I did want to follow up with sbeattie regarding openjdk
<jdstrand> sbeattie: are you getting the help needed from doko for the update?
<sbeattie> jdstrand: we're poking at it, yes; though as I mentioned elsewhere, I'm somewhat inclined to release the openjdk-6 packages I have, that built everywhere except ppc/karmic, and work with doko to resolve the build failure there and the 6b18 arm build failures.
<jdstrand> sbeattie: that sounds reasonable
<sbeattie> but I can poke a little harder at doko's hack first.
<jdstrand> sbeattie: how severe are the vulns? specifically, is it worth haing the supported arch' users wait on ppc?
<jdstrand> s/haing/having/
<sbeattie> jdstrand: one of the vulns is the magic large number DoS (similar issue that php5 experienced), there's at least one security manager bypass issue.
 * jdstrand nods
<kees> fyi, chromium wants to put a floor on the minimum version of openjdk of 1.9.7, and expects to do that with the chromium 10 release.
<jdstrand> I'm inclined to skip ppc this time
<sbeattie> I'd really like to get fixes out to the supported arch users.
<jdstrand> eek
<jdstrand> micahg: ^
<micahg> :(
<sbeattie> kees: that... will be a problem on arm.
<micahg> jdstrand: actually, not an issue, lucid+ will have that with sbeattie's updates
<kees> sbeattie: I suspect arm will have lots of problems beyond just that :)
<jdstrand> sbeattie: ack
<sbeattie> (assuming I ever release something :-( )
<jdstrand> micahg: ah, good
<micahg> sbeattie: I think we've got at least one more release before chromium 10
<jdstrand> sbeattie: I appreciate all the time and effort you've put into this
 * jdstrand hugs sbeattie 
<kees> anyway, it came up with a conversation I was having with chris evans
<jdstrand> sbeattie: is there anything that can be added to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures so that it would be easier next time? eg, so that we don't lose knowledge, etc
<jdstrand> kees: is chris evans the google chromium security guy?
 * jdstrand can't remember off-hand
<sbeattie> jdstrand: yes, I can document how to put together the orig tarball, though that's not been the source of the issue with this update.
<jdstrand> sbeattie: perhaps added to QRT/notest_testing if that makes more sense
<jdstrand> sbeattie: ok. I think that would be a good idea
<jdstrand> sbeattie: whenever you get a chance
<kees> jdstrand: no, that's... someone else. who's name I'm blanking on. this is http://scarybeastsecurity.blogspot.com/
<sbeattie> jdstrand: will do. (feel free to add it as an action item)
<jdstrand> kees: ah right. duh
<jdstrand> [ACTION] sbeattie to update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures and/or QRT for openjdk tarball generation, build instructions, etc
<MootBot> ACTION received:  sbeattie to update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures and/or QRT for openjdk tarball generation, build instructions, etc
<jdstrand> sbeattie: thanks
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I'm in the happy place this week
<jdstrand> I've got archive-admin work for alpha3
<jdstrand> some more libvirt sponsoring
<jdstrand> tbird and chromium testing on amd64
<jdstrand> QRT updates for apparmor and libvirt
<jdstrand> more investigation of changes auditing
<jdstrand> and investigate a reported ufw logging issue
<jdstrand> basically a bunch of random stuff :)
<jdstrand> I'll pick up an update if I've got time, but I am not optimistic this week
<jdstrand> that's it from me
<jdstrand> kees: you're up
<kees> okay, spent a while working on upstreaming lkml things, adding more qrt tests for them, docs, etc.
<kees> this week I'm on triage.
<kees> that's really about it from me.
<jdstrand> kees: is that s/spent/spend/?
<kees> jdstrand: I was reporting last week, yes. spent
<jdstrand> ah
<jdstrand> k
<kees> jdstrand: this week I'd like to work on gcc testsuite updates but I always say that.
<jdstrand> ok
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're next
<mdeslaur> I'm currently publishing samba, clamav and fuse
<mdeslaur> and then will work on ffmpeg, and some more from the list
<mdeslaur> I have an embargoed issue or two to look at
<mdeslaur> and will do some iso testing this week
<mdeslaur> that's about it!
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: tag, you're it
<sbeattie> I'm on community this week; I was on triage last week; I fell a bit behind on bug triage (sorry kees!) so will try to help catch up on that this week.
<kees> jdstrand: evan martin is the guy from UDS.
<jdstrand> ah yes
<jdstrand> micahg: you might try to get in contact with him ^
<kees> sbeattie: no worries :)
<jdstrand> micahg: I was unsuccessful
<micahg> jdstrand: ACK
<jdstrand> micahg: well, I may have contacted him, I don't know. He never contacted me back :)
<sbeattie> I have the whole openjdk issue (already discussed) and a logwatch update underway
 * jdstrand notes that sbeattie got apparmor 2.6 released and uploaded to natty last week
<sbeattie> I also released the upstream apparmor 2.6.0 tarball, merged that into natty (with jdstrand's review and sponsorship), but I need to formally announce it.
<jdstrand> hehe
<sbeattie> jdstrand: heh
<jdstrand> sbeattie: I didn't think you were going to mention it!
<jdstrand> :)
<sbeattie> I also need to do a similar release for 2.5.2.
<sbeattie> I think that's it for me.
<jdstrand> sbeattie: fyi, the binaries haven't hit the archive cause an archive admin other than me needs to deNEW it (hung on the new python-libapparmor)
 * sbeattie should probably schedule an upstream apparmor meeting.
<sbeattie> jdstrand: oh, okay. do we think they'll get approved by alpha 3?
<jdstrand> sbeattie: would you mind poking an AA today so it can get deNEWed in time for alpha3?
<sbeattie> jdstrand: sure, can do.
<jdstrand> sbeattie: well, the should be, but I want to make sure they are
<jdstrand> sbeattie: thanks!
<jdstrand> I'm pretty excited about the python bindings
<micahg> alpha3 freeze is in 4.5 hours, so I would suggest that happen sooner rather than later if you want it in
<jdstrand> micahg: well, it is already uploaded from 4 days ago, so the aa *should* do it
<jdstrand> but yeah
<jdstrand> sooner than lator
<sbeattie> jdstrand: me too! Especially given the last minute tweaking I had to do to get them to work at all.
<jdstrand> heh
<jdstrand> if sbeattie doesn't have any more, micahg, you're up
<sbeattie> yep, all done.
<micahg> Chromium/Firefox/Thunderbird updates
<micahg> upgrading to natty
<micahg> still have a few setup items to do
<micahg> I think that's it
<jdstrand> cool
 * micahg also needs to get up to speed on webkit
<jdstrand> great, mdeslaur can brain-dump on you
<jdstrand> that sounded kinda wrong
<jdstrand> anyhoo
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
<MootBot> New Topic:  Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<mdeslaur> nope!
 * sbeattie eyes jjohansen nervously.
<jjohansen> hehe, problem solved boring technical paper to follow
<jjohansen> :)
<sbeattie> jjohansen: heh, cool. Technical papers are good.
<jdstrand> jjohansen: mentioned ealier. do you think we should have an apparmor upstream meeting this week?
<jjohansen> yeah, it might be a good idea
<jjohansen> start planning for 2.7/3.0
<jdstrand> cool, we can do that in #apparmor
<jdstrand> (schedule it that is)
<jjohansen> yep
<jdstrand> ok
<jdstrand> thanks kees, mdeslaur, sbeattie, micahg and jjohansen!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:49.
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thank you!
<jdstrand> sure thing :)
<micahg> thanks jdstrand
<kees> thanks!
<jdstrand> :)
<kklimonda> geser: is the dmb meeting tonight, as mentioned on te agenda?
<geser> kklimonda: yes (if we get quorum)
<hallyn> \o
 * stgraber waves
<Daviey> o/
<Quintasan> kklimonda: sup
<geser> bdrung_, cody-somerville, persia, maco: DMB meeting
 * cody-somerville is here.
<maco> hi
<SpamapS> o/
<geser> if I didn't miscount, then we are quorate
<maco> Laney: around?
<SpamapS> i can only stay for a little whil... at what point is the meeting postponed?
<geser> any volunteers for chair?
<geser> maco: Iain mailed the DMB list that he can't today
<cnd> o/
<maco> oh ok
<maco> im still not on that list
<bdrung_> o/ i couldn't make it earlier
<geser> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 13:14. The chair is geser.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
 * cody-somerville has a nose bleed, afk.
<geser> [TOPIC] Review of previous action items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review of previous action items
<geser> * Emmet Hikory to organise the selection process for DMB renewal
<geser> the voting is done
<geser> but I don't know how far Emmet is with organizing the take-over of the DMB mailing list (will try asking him)
<geser> and I don't remember seeing an official announcement of the new DMB (will ask him about it too or do it myself)
<geser> anything else regarding the new DMB?
<geser> [TOPIC] Administrative Matters
<MootBot> New Topic:  Administrative Matters
<geser> * Review progress of probationary period of Marco Rodrigues
<geser> as cody-somerville went afk we have to defer it for later
<geser> [TOPIC] MOTU Application: Sylvestre Ledru
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU Application: Sylvestre Ledru
<geser> is Sylvestre Ledru here?
<geser> ok, looks like we have to defer it to e-mail
<geser> [TOPIC] core-dev application: Dave Walker
<MootBot> New Topic:  core-dev application: Dave Walker
<geser> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DaveWalker/DeveloperApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DaveWalker/DeveloperApplication
<Daviey> o/
<geser> a first question was already done during the last meeting
<Daviey> Yes
<Daviey> I was interviewed in the last meeting
<geser> [LINK] http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/02/14/%23ubuntu-meeting.html#t12:28
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/02/14/%23ubuntu-meeting.html#t12:28
<bdrung_> i have no questions
<geser> someone have any questions? or are all still reading?
 * cody-somerville is reading.
 * stgraber is reading the log
<cody-somerville> Daviey, What upload permissions do you already have?
<Daviey> cody-somerville, mythbuntu-dev
<cody-somerville> ah, right.
<Daviey> last timei polled
<Daviey> http://erk.daviey.com/ubuntu-archive-access.txt
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://erk.daviey.com/ubuntu-archive-access.txt
<maco> need to keep the cadbury eggs away?
<Daviey> eek.
<stgraber> ok, done reading the log
<maco> done reading
<geser> any questions or are we ready for voting?
<cody-somerville> Daviey, Becoming a Ubuntu Core Developer is more than just about upload rights - Its a leadership position. What are the most important values and ethics you demonstrate as a leader? Give me an example of these in practice.
<Daviey> cody-somerville, Good question.
<Daviey> It's about taking responsibility for your actions... thinking of other teams
<Daviey> That is, don't upload something before speaking with others it might cause woe to.
<Daviey> If you break something, ,make sure you notify people if needed... fix it
<geser> does this also apply to MOTU?
<Daviey> or give someone else enough information to fix it themselves
<Daviey> geser, yes.. because Universe isn't just MOTU :)
<Daviey> but equally, some packages have people who are essentially maintainers.. it would be rude and potentially damaging to not at least speak to them first
<Daviey> I appreciate they aren't /really/ maintainers... but some people tend to look after some
<Daviey> Equally, whilst it isn't in main... it still has rdepends, maybe
<geser> where do you see differences (in leadership position) between MOTU and core-dev?
<Daviey> so ABI bumping, or version increasing could be bad cookies
<Daviey> geser, not a great deal TBH.
<Daviey> core-dev clearly had more responsibilty
<Daviey> If i broke a package in main, it would, for example, it could hurt others developement that is shipped
<Daviey> Damaging a daily for example
<Daviey> Universe doesn't have that same harm.
<Daviey> (for the main flavours anyway)
<Laney> Do you monitor bugs for packages which you upload to watch out for such breakage?
<micahg> that's not true
<Laney> (/me appears for 2 minutes)
<Daviey> Laney, yes
<micahg> a bad upload in universe could break the xubuntu dailies
<maco> or edubuntu
<Daviey> micahg, <Daviey> (for the main flavours anyway)
<Daviey> maco, ^^
<maco> i assumed edubuntu was being intentionally not counted as "main flavours" but i do tend to think of xubuntu as being one of them
<cody-somerville> Daviey, Do you consider yourself a generalist?
<Laney> Daviey: Being a core developer is more than just raw packaging, it includes feature work too. Have you done much of that? (answer Cody's question first)
<Daviey> cody-somerville, My heart is looking out for the whole distro... but i tend to find there are areas where i /need/ to work on.
<Daviey> Laney, yes :)
<Laney> Can you briefly outline your experience and plans for when/if you get access? :-)
<Daviey> Laney, My daily work is mostly around blueprints work.
<Daviey> I've been heavily tracking features of -server for the last year.
<Daviey> As in monitoring progress and such... been the server representive for some  of the weekly release meetings.
<Daviey> Laney, I have a good understanding of the release cycle stages.
<Laney> Good, that's important to have a firm grasp of.
 * Laney has no more questions
<Daviey> Laney, did that suitably answer your question?
<cody-somerville> Daviey, What motivates you to apply for core developer instead of just upload rights to the ubuntu-server package set?
<Daviey> cody-somerville, I don't want to purely work on the -server.. I want to be more of a general player.
<Daviey> As i mentioned in the previous meeting, i feel i'm using up my sponsorship time on stuff i HAVE to work on
<Daviey> not /want/ to work on
<cody-somerville> Daviey, Whats stopping you from using the standard sponsorship process to work on things you want to work on?
<Daviey> Equally, there is quite an overlap between what is not in the server seed and core.
<Laney> OK I do have to leave now, will vote by email if needed.
<Daviey> cody-somerville, Nothing especially.
<Laney> /away
<cody-somerville> Daviey, Are you familiar with the community processes around sponsorship?
<Daviey> cody-somerville, yes..
<Daviey> cody-somerville, Both UDD and tradional debdiff attached to LP bug
<maco> I'm getting the impression Daviey is starting to feel like nixternal did when his sponsors all turned on him and said "JUST APPLY ALREADY"
<cody-somerville> maco, for server stuff, definitely seems like it.
<Daviey> There has been some of that...  When i do get stuff sponsored i don't tend to hear on quibbles with it
<Daviey> The last one was a superfluous white space at an end of a patch
<Daviey> cody-somerville, Well this is true.. but equally for the stuff not in server seed.
<cody-somerville> Daviey, So you think that if you were to be granted core-dev you'd be more inclined to work on packages you have a personal interest in but for whatever reason you've never touched before via a sponsor? Why is that? Is the normal sponsorship process (where you don't have a dedicated set of sponsors like you seem to have with server stuff) do heavy? Any feedback on how we might improve it so that folks like yourself will use
<cody-somerville> it instead of waiting for upload permissions?
<Daviey> I would like to do more sponsorship for others, than i've currently been able to do.
<cody-somerville> s/do/too/
<Daviey> cody-somerville, The process has been improved massively in the last couple of years.
<Daviey> Particularly with UDD and patch pilot, has helped improve that
<Daviey> There was a time when some of my work would bake in places like revu or debdiffs for months
<Daviey> cody-somerville, It's not totally about personal interest TBH.
<Daviey> personal interest in specific packages that is
<Daviey> I have had frustrating times when i've pushed a bzr branch, done the sponsorship process, waited...
 * cody-somerville is ready to vote.
<Daviey> only to find someone else uploaded it independently
<Daviey> which really makes you want to scream.
<ari-tczew> Daviey: sorry for interrupt, are you going to spend some time on sponsorship for community in your free time? (non-Canonical hours)
<Daviey> ari-tczew, Canonical is largely irrelevant in this :)
<geser> [VOTE] Should Dave Walker become core-dev?
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Should Dave Walker become core-dev?.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<bdrung> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from bdrung. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<geser> +1
<maco> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<MootBot> +1 received from maco. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<stgraber> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<Daviey> ari-tczew, I was doing packaging work yesterday
<cody-somerville> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from cody-somerville. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 4
<Daviey> handling bugs
<geser> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 4
<geser> Daviey: congrats
<Quintasan> Daviey: \o/
<Daviey> \o/
 * Quintasan hands Daviey cookies
 * Daviey just shouted an obscenity, and apologies
<geser> you even didn't need the two +1 from the previous DMB members
 * Daviey is really happy chappy.
 * bdrung is getting hungy and want's cookies too.
<bdrung> Daviey: congrats
<Daviey> bdrung, grab me at UDS for a cookie.
<Daviey> Thanks all o/
 * cody-somerville has to go to another meeting in 5.
<SpamapS> i can only stay for a little whil... at what point is the meeting postponed?eetg my met connection went out...i
<geser> [TOPIC] PPU application: Serge Hallyn
<MootBot> New Topic:  PPU application: Serge Hallyn
<hallyn> o/
<geser> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SergeHallyn/PerPackageDeveloperApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SergeHallyn/PerPackageDeveloperApplication
<SpamapS> ooops pls disregard
<SpamapS> sorry if my nar was called... connectivity has been spotty
<SpamapS> s/nar/name/
<geser> SpamapS: you'll be next one
<geser> any questions for hallyn?
<maco> hi hallyn
<hallyn> maco: hey
<maco> some of the endorsements on your wiki page include folks saying you should start working on more packages so you can have wider contributions aside from the ones you're currently asking for PPU on. any plans in that direction?
<hallyn> yup.  I've been pretty swamped with bugs in older releases in qemu, etc - but I do like to look at bugs in new packages
<bdrung> hallyn: you dislike having ubuntu-specific patches and don't caring in forwarding them. have you done some work to reduce the delta to debian? looking for example at libvirt 0.8.8-1ubuntu1 shows a huge delta
<hallyn> bdrung: what do you mean, don't care to forward them?  I definately do want to fwd them to debian/upstream
<Daviey> (/me throws in that i suggested hallyn do a rather complex merge of libvirt and multipath-tools, and he did a really good job... listened to comments, and acted on them)
<hallyn> bdrung: until this latest merge, libvirt had diverged from the debian package, but now that we've resynced (as of last week) I intend to push as much as possible back up
<maco> hallyn: he meant carrying them forward to th enext ubuntu version of the package
<bdrung> hallyn: i just rephrased "without the requisite followup"
<maco> (or at leas,t i think so)
<hallyn> bdrung: ah.  so yes.  we still haven't been able to resync with deiban for qemu, but for libvirt that's the plan
<bdrung> hallyn: is resyncing qemu-kvm on the todo list?
<hallyn> it's on the...  someday? list.   it would at this point involve qemu-linaro as well
<hallyn> bdrung: the package splitup is very different between the two
<hallyn> but, I absolutely do not like having a completely different base from debian.
<hallyn> I'm hoping in next cycle to have a discusison with lool and slangasek about it, fwiw
<bdrung> looking at the qemu-kvm changelog, there seems to be no common anchor
<slangasek> syncing qemu with Debian requires solving the "arch: all packages from !i386" issue, fwiw
<bdrung> hallyn: do you have any idea how to avoid such huge deltas?
<hallyn> bdrung: sync with debian and forward patches back to them?  :)  other than that, no.
<bdrung> hallyn: there's a way that goes beyond that: joining the debian team for the package and apply the changes there
<hallyn> I wouldn't want to look like I'm shoving patches down their throats, but joining the team is appealing
<SpamapS> hey guys sorry to interrupt your questioning of sergr... i hqve mjor jet lag and avery bursty connection....
<geser> anymore questions?
<stgraber> not from me
<maco> nope
<SpamapS> so i will have to reschedule for next meeting
<bdrung> we can vote
<Daviey> (hallyn has previously expressed interest in getting more involved with Debian)
<maco> SpamapS: ok
<geser> [VOTE] Grant Serge Hallyn PPU rights for vmbuilder, multipath-tools, qemu-kvm, qemu-linary, seabios, vgabios, kvm-pxe, libvirt-bin, lxc and libcap2?
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Grant Serge Hallyn PPU rights for vmbuilder, multipath-tools, qemu-kvm, qemu-linary, seabios, vgabios, kvm-pxe, libvirt-bin, lxc and libcap2?.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<stgraber> +1
<bdrung> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<MootBot> +1 received from bdrung. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<maco> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from maco. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<hallyn> yay :)  thanks
<geser> cody-somerville?
<cody-somerville> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from cody-somerville. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 4
 * cody-somerville is in another meeting.
<geser> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 4
<geser> hallyn: congrats
<geser> SpamapS: you would be next right now, you want to reschedule?
<hallyn> geser: thanks :)
<geser> ok, we will reschedule SpamapS for the next meeting and move on
<geser> [TOPIC] MOTU application: Krzysztof Klimonda
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU application: Krzysztof Klimonda
<geser> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KrzysztofKlimonda/MOTUApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KrzysztofKlimonda/MOTUApplication
<kklimonda> hey
<bdrung> kklimonda: do you want to join the sponsor team?
<bdrung> making it more "humane"?
<kklimonda> bdrung: yes, although I prefer not to get involved with packages I'm unable to test myself. Still, if there are some sponsorships for packages I know of (or are simple enough) I see no problem helping with working on them.
<bdrung> kklimonda: so sponsoring only in your comfort zone?
<geser> kklimonda: +1 for packaging pyramid, I'm currently moving from turbogears to pyramid so would like to see pyramid in Debian and Ubuntu
<geser> bdrung: don't do all sponsors it? sponsor only fixes you are comfortable with?
<bdrung> geser: python-pyramid is in NEW
<kklimonda> bdrung: I believe that working on packages you use yourself (or packages that are dependencies of those packages) gives better result.
<kklimonda> bdrung: I have no problem sponsoring anything - it's not a technical problem on my part, I just don't believe it works well
<maco> geser: i hope so!
<bdrung> geser: probably, but looking at packages outside your comfort zone can give you a broader knowledge
<kklimonda> bdrung: I'd actually prefer unseeded packages to be split among teams, and packages that are not in any packageset to be synced with debian.
<geser> kklimonda: re gtkmm lp group: who are "we"?
<kklimonda> (minus some edge cases like FTBFSs)
<kklimonda> geser: it's actually an entire ubuntu-desktop team, me, asomething and the Gtkmm upstream author who we can talk with in case of problems.
<kklimonda> geser: I really don't have a head to write better description :)
<geser> was creating the gtkmm group the right step to ease maintainance?
<kklimonda> geser: I believe so - it's safer to give commit rights to few packages from the gtkmm "packageset" without adding people to the ubuntu-desktop team - that would give them access to GNOME 3 PPA and all their branches.
<geser> makes sense
<geser> any other questions or can we vote?
<geser> [VOTE] Should Krzysztof Klimonda become a MOTU?
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Should Krzysztof Klimonda become a MOTU?.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<bdrung> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from bdrung. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<stgraber> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<maco> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from maco. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<geser> cody-somerville: still in another meeting?
<cody-somerville> +0 - yup.
<MootBot> Abstention received from cody-somerville. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 4
<geser> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 4
<Quintasan> kklimonda: highfive
<geser> kklimonda: congrats
<bdrung> congrats kklimonda
<kklimonda> thanks all :)
<geser> the next two topics are connected
<geser> [TOPIC] Create uTouch package set and grant Chase Douglas upload rights to it
<MootBot> New Topic:  Create uTouch package set and grant Chase Douglas upload rights to it
<geser> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Multitouch/uTouchPackageSetApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Multitouch/uTouchPackageSetApplication
<geser> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChaseDouglas/DeveloperApplication-uTouch
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChaseDouglas/DeveloperApplication-uTouch
<ScottK> kklimonda: Congratulations.
<kklimonda> ScottK: thank you :)
<maco> kklimonda: now we can all stop going "wait youre not a motu yet?!"
<geser> cnd: here?
<cnd> geser, yep
<ari-tczew> Polish developer grow up :D
<cnd> hi!
<ari-tczew> s*
<cnd> I have two agenda items
<cnd> this first is to allow some members of our utouch team to upload more efficiently to our packages
<geser> cnd: how many new developers are expected for the uTouch package set in near future?
<cnd> I would guess two or three
<cnd> including myself
<oubiwann> geser, cnd: yup
<oubiwann> (I manage that team)
<cnd> If approved, I'll be asking Stephen Webb, another member of our team, to apply for sure
<cnd> there are a few others who I could see going for approval if they were interested
<bdrung> cnd: are there plan for getting the utouch packages into debian?
<cnd> bdrung, they are currently dependent on the X stack that we have in ubuntu
<cnd> I'm leading development on XInput 2.1 upstream in X.org
<cnd> and once that is in X.org and trickles down to debian
<cnd> then we can look into going through debian first
<cnd> however, we do extremely rapid development as well
<cnd> right now, for example, I don't believe we could go to debian even if there weren't dependency issues
<cnd> because of the deadlines upon our team :)
<cnd> hopefully in the future these will lessen
<geser> any questions?
<geser> [VOTE] Create the uTouch package set as described at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Multitouch/uTouchPackageSetApplication?
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Create the uTouch package set as described at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Multitouch/uTouchPackageSetApplication?.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<bdrung> cnd: you plan to work more on package uploads for universe packages. do you already have some packages you want to work on?
<maco> geser: too fast :P
<cnd> bdrung, there are some community multitouch games
<cnd> I hope to help shepherd them in
<cnd> but otherwise, I haven't had a chance to even take a look at universe sponsorship
<cnd> this kind of gets into the second item on the agenda though, which is my own personal application
<cnd> I'd be happy to talk about it here too, just wanted to make that note
<bdrung> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from bdrung. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<stgraber> +1 [Create a package set for utouch packages]
<MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<maco> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from maco. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<geser> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<geser> any questions for cnd's application?
<cnd> I want to make a note
<cnd> I'm trying to work towards being a core dev
<cnd> I've been pushed by others to do so :)
<cnd> so my application technically is just for the utouch stack
<cnd> but after I filed it, I figured it wouldn't hurt to ask for motu on top too
<cnd> if you'd prefer, I can prepare a separate applciation for that though
<cnd> but some of the endorsements on the utouch application, such as bryce's, show that I am ready for at least motu
<bdrung> for motu/core-dev you may need to broaden your work
<cnd> bdrung, yeah, I understand
<cnd> which is why I didn't think I'd apply directly for them at this time
<cnd> but I'd been urged by others to do so
<cnd> I have prepared multiple uploads to ubuntu main
<cnd> many more than universe, unfortunately
<cnd> and technically, I've touched quite a bit up and down the ubuntu stack :)
<bdrung> outside the utouch and related packages?
<cnd> yes
<cnd> I've prepared an upload for qt for multitouch, I've done linux kernel packaging as a previous job at canonical
<cnd> I've prepared gnome-settings-daemon, pkg-create-dbgsym
<cnd> the x server, input proto, x input modules
<cnd> I'm the maintainer of my own package in debian
<cnd> and I sync that if there are bug fixes
<cnd> (that's my only real universe work :)
<cnd> the only thing keeping me from doing more is my day job on utouch :)
<bdrung> :)
<cnd> it's been quite more than a normal full time job lately :)
<cnd> which is also a problem for getting this packaging experience :)
<cnd> I have quite a bit, but it's rather vertical
<cnd> I only get a chance to branch out when there are bugs elsewhere that I fix, usually
<geser> do you have much time to branch out?
<cnd> no, tbh
<cnd> but if it's required
<cnd> then I'll make the time necessary
<geser> "required" as in we would like to see you have a broad expierence with different packages
<cnd> I'm hoping that some of these new multitouch games will be able to give me some more experience
<cnd> yeah, it's hard to tell what that quantifies to :)
<geser> stacks have often the tendency to use a similar packaging
<cnd> I currently have no idea
<cnd> does that mean 10 packages spread out?
<cnd> there's a lot of this that's subjective, and I'd be happy with any guidance you can give
<cnd> I believe I have the competency level that is required
<cnd> I've been taught proper procedures by Didier Roche, who helped me understand the full ubuntu developer mechanisms
<cnd> integrating with bzr and such
<cnd> and I've worked in some of the most complex packaging, such as the ubuntu kernel and xorg-server
<cnd> so I'm really just missing the experience, and that's a big question mark for me because I'm not sure what types and how much experience I need
<geser> any more questions for cnd or can we vote on his uTouch package set upload rights?
<stgraber> geser: I'm fine to vote on his package set application
<bdrung> me too
<geser> [VOTE] Grant Chase Douglas upload rights to the uTouch package set?
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Grant Chase Douglas upload rights to the uTouch package set?.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<bdrung> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from bdrung. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<stgraber> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<maco> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from maco. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<geser> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<geser> cnd: congrats
<stgraber> cnd: the packages you've touched so far seem to mostly be well maintained packages with proper procedures and using modern packaging tools. It's sadly not the case for all packages.
<cnd> geser, thansk!
<cnd> stgraber, yeah, I understand that
<geser> any other business?
<stgraber> cnd: merging from Debian / fixing bugs / ... is probably a good way to gain more experience with what's in universe
<geser> any volunteers as chair for next meeting?
<cnd> stgraber, is there any way to quantify how much more I need?
<cnd> any guidance at all
<bdrung> cnd: we have no numbers for that.
<cnd> bdrung, yeah, I don't need explicit numbers
<cnd> but when will I know whether to come back to ask for perms?
<bdrung> cnd: you may look at what the other who became MOTU did
<stgraber> cnd: I think working on some merges (early 11.10 cycle) and getting some testimonials from other MOTUs would help a MOTU application a lot
<cnd> ok
<cnd> thanks everyone!
<stgraber> thanks and enjoy your PPU upload rights !
<kklimonda> geser: btw, pyramid is already in Debian - it's just waiting to get accepted by ftp-masters
<bdrung> cnd: you could ask your sponsors if you are ready.
<bdrung> kklimonda: i said that a while ago
<cnd> bdrung, heh. most of them say I'm ready
<cnd> that's the challenging part
<kklimonda> bdrung: ah, sorry - I haven't noticed your response, just remembered that geser was talking about it.
<geser> [ENDMEETING]
<geser> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 15:30.
<bdrung> ^ 15:30?
<bdrung> that's not UTC
<bdrung> cnd: when you do some universe work (e.g. merge), you could ask these sponsors.
<cnd> bdrung, hmm?
<cnd> I can get more sponsors, but the sponsors I have feel I'm ready
<stgraber> bdrung: that's CST
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-03-01
<lifeless> hmm
<lifeless> persia: are we meeting tonight?
<mati75> hey
<smoser> thank you zul
 * smoser is heading out for 30 minutes.
<zul> hi
<zul> still 2 minutes according to my clock
<RoAkSoAx> o/
<zul> hi so lets get that started
<zul> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is zul.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<zul> [TOPIC]     Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:      Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<zul> since there is nothing in the last meeting we jump to
<zul> [TOPIC] Natty Development
<MootBot> New Topic:  Natty Development
<zul> so alpha3 is going to be released on thursday
<zul> your blueprints wi should be marked as postposted if they arent complete and carried over
<zul> iso testing this week so please help out
<zul> anything else?
<Daviey> Sounds good to me.
<hallyn> action + url for iso testign for the record?
<zul> [ACTION] iso testing - everybody (http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com)
<MootBot> ACTION received:  iso testing - everybody (http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com)
<hallyn> :)
<zul> is robbie around?
<zul> if not we will move on...going once...
<zul> okies then
<zul> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Server Team Events
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Server Team Events
<zul> anyone have anything to add?
<zul> UDS is soon and sponsorship is open now so if you want to be sponsored please sign up
<ttx> cool ;)
<zul> that means you ttx
<RoAkSoAx> lol
<zul> its in budapest this year in may
<zul> nice and toasty
<zul> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<zul> hi hggdh
<hggdh> yo
<zul> anything to report?
<hggdh> this is A3 week, we will probably need help
<Daviey> Hggdh. Expect a news eucalyptus today.
<zul> yay!
<Daviey> New
<hggdh> Daviey: so I will refrain from testing it until you ping me
<Daviey> Cool
<hggdh> that
<zul> that it? ;)
<RoAkSoAx> hggdh: so I guess when you start testing we can take a deeper look into the PowerNap issue then
<hggdh>  's it
<hggdh> RoAkSoAx: yes, certainly
<zul> ok next
<Daviey> Hggdh... Any comments on a3 testing?
<zul> just need help right hggdh?
<hggdh> new ISO seems better, but some bare-metal installs would help
<hggdh> (we had an issue that only appeared in bare-metal)
<Daviey> Groovy
<zul> thanks
<zul> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<zul> hi smb
<smb> Hi there
<zul> anything to report?
<smb> So not much. A bit of ec2 testing fallout, some xfs regression that was reported and some nasty Lucid behavior in net namespace.
<smb> bug 720095
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 720095 in linux (Ubuntu) "vsftpd causes a vmalloc space leak in Lucid" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/720095
<zul> oh thats fun
<smb> bug 725089
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 725089 in linux (Ubuntu) "SECCOMP causes kernel panic on EC2 AMD64 image" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/725089
<smb> bug 692848
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 692848 in linux (Ubuntu Karmic) "Regression between 2.6.32-27 and 2.6.32-26 xfsdump SGI_FS_BULKSTAT errno = 22" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/692848
<zul> people shouldnt use ftp anyways ;)
<zul> any questions?
<smb> The seccomp panic "luckily" is no regression, just a race that sometimes happens
<smb> ..
<hallyn> smb: bug id for net ns lucid ?
<smb> hallyn, Thats the vsftp bug
<hallyn> ah
<smb> Basically the problem is that the cleanup for clones of the net namespace hang around for a whole
<smb> Upstream changed a lot between Lucid and Maverick to batch things
<smb> Seems a bit much for backporting, so I try to find some smaller solution
<smb> (not with much luck yet)
<smb> ..
<zul> thanks
<hallyn> impressive root-cause finding ;)
<zul> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team (sommer)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team (sommer)
<zul> sommer around?
<zul> im thinking no
<zul> well come back to that one if needed
<zul> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
<kim0> o/
<zul> hi kim0
<kim0> the thing I wanna mention
<kim0> is the .. drum roll
<kim0> Ubuntu Cloud Days
<kim0> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuCloudDays/
<kim0> basically very similar to UDW
<kim0> everyone who's attending that meeting is a very good candidate to register a session
<kim0> please choose one and write it in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuCloudDays/Timetable
<zul> its just the two days right?
<kim0> don't make me pick one for you
<kim0> zul: well yes, unless I get flooded with volunteers
<kim0> basically, I've written a blog post announcing it
<zul> kim0: cool
<kim0> but dont wanna publish it before you guys have added a few sessions
<kim0> so please go go go
<kim0> that's mostly it for me
<zul> cool any questions?
<kim0> nope
<Daviey> Exciting
<zul> any other questions for kim0
<zul> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<zul> kirkland: around? how was scale
<zul> or not
<zul> so lxcguest
<zul> we have been adding lxc containers support to openstack and we would like add lxcguest support to the uec-images
<zul> i have discussed with smoser that it should be brought into main. does anyone see an issue with that?
<zul> this would make testing images on openstack much more easier
<hallyn> woot
<zul> the work is already on the way to get it done
<Daviey> How will mainly bed supporting generic.lxc?
<Daviey> Who
<zul> us
<zul> or i missed the question
<hallyn> I support lxc
<Daviey> Hallyn, cool
<zul> and the lxc support in openstack is done through libvirt so that is also hallyn :)
<Daviey> Heh
<hallyn> <twitch>
<zul> any other open discussion type things?
<Daviey> Nah
<zul> [TOPIC] Announce next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
<zul> Tuesday, March 8 2011 16:00 UTC
<zul> thanks for comming
<zul> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:24.
<Daviey> Short and sweet
<smoser> wow. short meeting
<apw> o/
<cking> \o
<flag> o/
<sforshee> \o
<jjohansen> \o
<JFo> o/
<smb> \o
<kamal> o/
<sconklin> \o
<bjf> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:01. The chair is bjf.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<bjf> # Meeting Etiquette
<bjf> #
<bjf> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<bjf> #       'o/' indicates you have something you'd like to add (wait until you are recognized)
<bjf> #
<bjf> [TOPIC] Release Metrics (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Release Metrics (JFo)
<JFo> Release Meeting Bugs (8 bugs, 9 Blueprints)
<JFo> ==== Beta 1 Milestoned Bugs (71 across all packages (up 15)) ====
<JFo>  * 5 linux kernel bugs (up 1)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-ti-omap bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-meta-ti-omap bug (no change)
<JFo> ==== Release Targeted Bugs (271 across all packages (up 6)) ====
<JFo>  * 20 linux kernel bugs (down 3)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-ti-omap bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-meta-ti-omap bug (no change)
<JFo> ==== Milestoned Features ====
<JFo>  * 7 blueprints (Including HWE Blueprints)
<JFo> ==== Maverick Updates Bugs ====
<JFo>  * 60 Linux Bugs (down 3)
<JFo> ==== Lucid Updates Bugs ====
<JFo>  * 94 Linux Bugs (no change)
<JFo> ==== Bugs with Patches Attached:77 (down 21) ====
<JFo>  * [[https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.has_patch=on | Bugs with Patches]]
<JFo>  * [[http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/csv-stats/bugs-with-patches/linux/ | Breakdown by status]]
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: Natty Bug Handling (JFo)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardware-kernel-n-bug-handling
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: Natty Bug Handling (JFo)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardware-kernel-n-bug-handling
<JFo> * apport hook change item: POSTPONED
<JFo> I will not likely get to this before UDS, but if I do, I will update the status then.
<JFo> * develop process for handling, validation & closure, and document in the wiki:INPROGRESS
<JFo> I still have a bit of work to do on this. I didn't have the time over the past week to complete it.
<JFo> * drive existing bugs with patches list to zero and keep it there:INPROGRESS
<JFo> My thanks to those of you who have been working on this. The list continues to drop significantly
<JFo> every week.
<JFo> Other items in the list didn't get looked at this past week. I have time scheduled this
<JFo> coming week to address them and, hopefully, close them out.
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: General Natty (apw)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: General Natty (apw)
<apw> The natty kernel is now at v2.6.38-5.32 (v2.6.38-rc6 based).  Overall we have most of our development out of the way, with just the ecryptfs long filename work ongoing.  We are currently concentrating on bug squashing for Natty.  One area of concern is an interaction between vesafb and drmfb during boot, in some cases we are triggering gpu hangs; upstream says "don't do that".  We are currently in freeze for Alpha-3.  We are waiting on -rc7 which shou
<apw> ld be imminent, planning to upload it as soon as freeze lifts.
<apw> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Ecryptfs (jj)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Ecryptfs (jj)
<jjohansen> No real progress - postponed for natty.  xattr version still waiting for review, some work on in header version
<jjohansen> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Stable Kernel Team (sconklin / bjf)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Stable Kernel Team (sconklin / bjf)
<sconklin> || We are in the middle of preparing kernels for a new cycle and uploading
<sconklin> || them to our PPA. We had planned to complete this last week but were
<sconklin> || delayed by a possible regression in the last set of kernels undergoing
<sconklin> || testing. This turned out not to be a regression, and we are free to proceed.
<sconklin> || We plan to have all the remaining packages uploaded today.
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Maverick/Lucid/Karmic/Hardy/Dapper (sconklin / bjf)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Maverick/Lucid/Karmic/Hardy/Dapper (sconklin / bjf)
<sconklin> || Package                                    || Upd/Sec              || Proposed             ||  TiP || Verified ||
<sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || dapper   linux-source-2.6.15               || 2.6.15-55.93         ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta                        || 2.6.15-56            ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || hardy    linux                             || 2.6.24-28.86         ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta                        || 2.6.24-28.30         ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || karmic   linux                             || 2.6.31-22.73         ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta                        || 2.6.31-22.35         ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-ec2                         || 2.6.31-307.27        ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta-ec2                    || 2.6.31.307.6         ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-ports-meta                  || 2.6.31.22.18         ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-backports-modules-2.6.31    || 2.6.31.22.24         ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-fsl-imx51                   || 2.6.31-112.30        ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta-fsl-imx51              || 2.6.31.112-10        ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-mvl-dove                    || 2.6.31.214.32        ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta-mvl-dove               || 2.6.31.214.13        ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || lucid    linux-ec2                         || 2.6.32-312.24        || 2.6.32-313.26        ||    8 ||        6 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-ports-meta                  || 2.6.32.28.21         || 2.6.32.29.22         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-mvl-dove                    || 2.6.32-211.27        || 2.6.32-214.30        ||    6 ||        6 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta-mvl-dove               || 2.6.32.209.12        || 2.6.32.214.15        ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-lts-backport-maverick       || 2.6.35-23.41~lucid1  || 2.6.35-25.44~lucid1  ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-backports-modules-2.6.32    || 2.6.32-28.27         || 2.6.32-29.28         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux                             || 2.6.32-28.55         || 2.6.32-29.58         ||    6 ||        6 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta                        || 2.6.32.28.32         || 2.6.32.29.35         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta-ec2                    || 2.6.32.312.13        || 2.6.32.313.14        ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || maverick linux-mvl-dove                    ||                      || 2.6.32-414.30        ||    4 ||        4 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta-mvl-dove               ||                      || 2.6.32.414.4         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: HW Cert. Team  (ara)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: HW Cert. Team  (ara)
<bjf> anyone from Cert. standing in for ara today ?
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<JFo> Incoming Bugs
<JFo>  182 Natty Bugs (up 2)
<JFo>  1183 Maverick Bugs (down 2)
<JFo>  1025 Lucid Bugs (up 6)
<JFo> Current regression stats (broken down by release):
<JFo> ==== regression-update ====
<JFo>   * 40 maverick bugs (up 1)
<JFo>   * 75 lucid bugs (down 2)
<JFo>   * 7 karmic bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 0 hardy bugs (no change)
<JFo> ==== regression-release ====
<JFo>   * 73 natty bugs (up 3)
<JFo>   * 237 maverick bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 218 lucid bugs (up 10)
<JFo>   * 38 karmic bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 2 hardy bugs (no change)
<JFo> ==== regression-proposed ====
<JFo>   * 0 natty bugs (down 1)
<JFo>   * 0 maverick bugs (down 2)
<JFo>   * 0 lucid bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 0 karmic bug (no change)
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<JFo> Last week's bug day was a success. We had quite a number of bugs reviewed.
<JFo> Many changed states. I had the opportunity to take a closer look at the
<JFo> arsenal script we use to process these and there is some work continuing there
<JFo> to make that script work better. The next bug day will be next Tuesday.
<JFo> I had originally hoped to have one today, but I couldn't get everything ready
<JFo> and announced in time, so I will announce for next week.
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Triage Status (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Triage Status (JFo)
<JFo> We have had quite a bit of interest in the periphery on bug triage. I have been
<JFo> fielding a few requests in #ubuntu-bugs about the proper level of information needed
<JFo> in bugs as well as the occasional private request. As always, I am recomending that
<JFo> interested parties inquire in our channel on #ubuntu-kernel so that others
<JFo> can benefit from the knowledge sharing.
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<bjf> thanks everyone
<bjf> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:10.
<JFo> thanks bjf
<jjohansen> thanks bjf
<kamal> thanks bjf
<skaet_> wow bjf - 10 minutes...   new record for the kernel team?  ;)
<bjf> heh
<JFo> \o/ :-)
<stgraber> ajmitch: ping
<stgraber> can't find wendar or fagan ...
<stgraber> I'll be back in 5 minutes, hopefully I won't be alone anymore by then ;)
<ajmitch> stgraber: sorry, I'd forgotten it was this morning
<ajmitch> stgraber: I think wendar said she'd be travelling & probably unavailable this week?
<stgraber> I seem to remember something like this yes
<ajmitch> given how late I've come in, & no fagan, I'm guessing we may have to skip it this week
 * ajmitch has to head out in 10 minutes
<ajmitch> I've been slack & not written up http://www.novarata.net/mootbot/ubuntu-meeting.log.20110215_1214.html
<stgraber> ok, I'm fine skeeping this one. I only have one package assigned to me and the packager will send a new version for review.
<stgraber> so really nothing mouch to discuss this week
<ajmitch> I think there was one new appliction submitted after the last meeting?
<stgraber> it's possible, I don't remember seeing it though
<ajmitch> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-app-review-board/+bug/719694
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 719694 in Ubuntu Application Review Board "Application Review Request: Tibesti 1.2.7" [Undecided,New]
<ajmitch> & I was taking https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-app-review-board/+bug/718413
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 718413 in Ubuntu Application Review Board "Application Review Request: schedio 2.0.0-0ubuntu1" [Undecided,New]
 * ajmitch thinks we should probably take it to the mailing list then - minutes from 2 weeks ago should be sent there
<stgraber> +1
<ajmitch> ok then :)
 * ajmitch shall run off to work now
<highvoltage> Gooooooood afternoon!
<highvoltage> *ahem*, evening, in EMEA zone at least :)
<highvoltage> Any EMEA board members present? stgraber is on the phone but he should be here momentarily
<highvoltage> is Rafael Laguna present?
<highvoltage> Seems like today's meeting is a no-go. Next EMEA RMB meeting is on April 5th at 20:00 UTC.
<drubin> highvoltage: Thanks for handling this.
<highvoltage> drubin: you're welcome
<Raydiation> -meeting already over?
<pleia2> Raydiation: yes, there was only one applicant and they aren't around
<mdz> is there a CC meeting happening here today?
<highvoltage> according to the fridge there is!
<Technoviking> mdz: yes, I think in a couple of minutes
<jono> mdz, yes
<mdz> thanks
 * pleia2 waves
<pleia2> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 15:01. The chair is pleia2.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
 * jono waves at pleia2
<pleia2> ok, I'm not sure we will have quorum today (a few members can't make it) and the last minute agenda items may be tricky to cover, but we can talk about them
<pleia2> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<jono> thanks for coordinating the session pleia2
<pleia2> first off mdz is here to talk about the diversity statement he's been working on
<pleia2> [TOPIC] Diversity statement: next steps
<MootBot> New Topic:  Diversity statement: next steps
<mdz> yes, so I'd like to know what the CC would like to happen next with this
<sabdfl> evening all
<pleia2> welcome sabdfl
<sabdfl> how are you all?
<Technoviking> hello sabdfl
<jono> hey sabdfl
<sabdfl> are we rolling, or should we start?
<pleia2> so far the time line on the diversity statement has been: mdz proposed in the fall, came out with a draft with the CC approved last month, and posted on his blog for community review: http://mdzlog.alcor.net/2011/02/07/a-diversity-statement-for-ubuntu/
<pleia2> sabdfl: we're going, on agenda item one "Diversity statement: next steps"
<sabdfl> okdokey
<mdz> I consider it more or less "done" in terms of the document, and would like to see it move forward to become an official statement and put into practice in the community
<sabdfl> i think we ack'd it previously, in essentially the same form
<sabdfl> with the caveat that there should be discussion
<mdz> yes
<pleia2> since this is a community-developed document, I think the blessing by the CC should be sufficient to make it official
<sabdfl> was there much commentary after your blog?
<mdz> I summarized it to c-c@ a while back
<pleia2> 40 comments on the blog entry
<Technoviking> maybe an Ubuntu Values page should be created on ubuntu.com with this and the CoC just to make this easy to find for the community
<mdz> there were a lot of suggested wording changes, some of which are reasonable but not urgently needed (wordsmithing)
<sabdfl> re-reading the text, i wonder why we don't have the paragraph on taking responsibility in the code of conduct?
<sabdfl> "Whenever any participant has made a mistake, we expect them to  take responsibility for it. If someone has been harmed or offended, it  is our responsibility to listen carefully and respectfully, and do our  best to right the wrong."
<mdz> I actually have a code of conduct diff which goes along with this
<mdz> and adds that
<Technoviking> sabdfl: +1 for that
<pleia2> oh, it was also shared on the ubuntu-women and ubuntu-for-all lists
<mdz> I can send that diff to c-c@ if you like
<mdz> it's small
<Raydiation> voice test
<sabdfl> that would be great. i wouldn't block on this, but if the plan is to integrate that bit into the CoC, let's take it out of this one
<jono> sounds great
<mdz> let me send the diff and we can discuss it
<pleia2> thanks mdz :)
<mdz> I think they're complementary, but let's see
<chuckf> so if someone is offended that Cannonical makes public private information of a member and does nothing to right the wrong, how should that be handled?
<sabdfl> also, the nod to python and dreamwidth would probably be better in a footnote than the statement itself
<mdz> consider it a footnote
<mdz> given the CC-BY nature it shouldn't be forgotten, but certainly isn't central
<sabdfl> ok, then +1 from me
<Technoviking> +1 here
<pleia2> +1
<mdz> what should I do next?
<mdz> 1. send the CoC diff
<mdz> 2. ...
<sabdfl> chuckf: i think that would be a different matter than harrassment
<pleia2> I like Technoviking's idea of an Ubuntu Values page where this will go
<sabdfl> mdz, since you've carried this, it's entirely appropriate for you to blog that the CC approved the statement
<chuckf> sabdfl: but the member is offended, if not harrassed
<sabdfl> if you want one of us to blog in support, that's easily arranged too
<sabdfl> popey: thoughts?
<jono> I am happy to spread the new statement across our community resources too
<pleia2> popey said he'd be about a half hour late, so I don't think he's here yet
<mdz> it probably needs to get formatted as HTML and put on the website
<sabdfl> let's let mdz set timing, and then press go
<mdz> ok
<pleia2> ok, are we done with this agenda item then?
<mdz> diff sent to c-c@
<mdz> pleia2, yes, thank you
<pleia2> great, thanks mdz
<pleia2> is VincentUntz here?
<jono> vuntz, ^
<vuntz> yep
<pleia2> grea
<jono> :-)
<pleia2> t
<pleia2> [TOPIC] Amazon MP3 store in Natty & referral fees
<MootBot> New Topic:  Amazon MP3 store in Natty & referral fees
<vuntz> fwiw, I think nobody wants an endless discussion here, so I welcome ideas on how to organize it :-)
<pleia2> vuntz: this is your agenda item, so feel free to introduce it and we can go from there (I certainly agree about avoiding endless discussion!)
<sabdfl> i would suggest we handle the related topic, "non technical changes" first
<sabdfl> as that's the general case
<pleia2> good idea
<vuntz> sabdfl: makes sense
<pleia2> [TOPIC] Non technical changes management
<MootBot> New Topic:  Non technical changes management
<joaopinto> hello
<joaopinto> I have send an email to the community council requesting a process for non technical changes management
<sabdfl> hi joaopinto
<joaopinto> hi sabdfl
<joaopinto> the reason is the increasing number of changes on different matters which directly affect Ubuntu, the product, and which are not properly identified or accountable
<joaopinto> the most sensitive changes are those which are applied to upstream packages
<joaopinto> IMHO changes should be properly identified, as soon there is an intent for implementation, communicated to the community, and formally approved
<pleia2> joaopinto: just so we're clear, is the presumption here that Canonical would not make agreements upstream about changes without the go-ahead of the tech board, but there is no such process for non-technical changes?
<joaopinto> this is not specific to Canonical, is about the ability to one to introduce non technical changes without any guidelines or assessment
<sabdfl> thanks for raising this, joaopinto
<joaopinto> s/one/anyone
<sabdfl> i think there are a few different issues that need to be teased apart
<sabdfl> one is a well-understood issue, of making changes available so others can benefit from them
<sabdfl> we already have good practices and guidelines for that, both for sharing with Debian and with upstream projects
<sabdfl> but i don't think that's the focus of your request
<sabdfl> another issue is changes which may not be substantial technical changes (i.e. small patches) but which have a big user visible impact
<sabdfl> like moving buttons around
<highvoltage> or like adding "Sent from Ubuntu" to e-mail signatures :)
 * cody-somerville grins.
<joaopinto> highvoltage, that's one of the examples I have selected :)
<sabdfl> and a third is changes, like the banshee revenue change, which are potentially issues where canonical has a conflict of interests
<sabdfl> is that a reasonable summary?
<joaopinto> sabdfl, yes
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> when we were doing the branding work, we faced an interesting challenge
<sabdfl> normally, brands are exclusive
<sabdfl> you tightly restrict who has the right to speak for a brand
<sabdfl> and you make sure nothing gets done which looks, or feels, "different"
<sabdfl> we started out doing a brand for Canonical
<sabdfl> but we quickly realised that many things that are interesting, cannot just be branded Canonical
<sabdfl> and more importantly
<sabdfl> we needed to be able to empower non-Canonical people to speak for those things two
<sabdfl> we basically designed two brands that work really well together
<sabdfl> either "all one" or "all the other" or a mixture of the two
<sabdfl> where you can say "hmm, this is mostly canonical" or "hmm, this is mostly community" but still insert a taste of the other
<sabdfl> this is a long way of saying:
<sabdfl> Ubuntu is a shared effort between Canonical and the Ubuntu community
<sabdfl> and of course, many members of Canonical are also members of the Ubuntu community
<mdke> sorry I'm late
<sabdfl> np mdke, good timing
<sabdfl> the interesting question is "who owns Ubuntu"?
<sabdfl> which has a hard but misleading answer: Canonical
<sabdfl> it's misleading simply because lots of people feel ownership of Ubuntu, and rightly so
<sabdfl> so
<sabdfl> Canonical certainly has the right to make non-technical changes
<sabdfl> but it's best when those changes are supported by a weight of non-Canonical views, too
<sabdfl> in general, within Canonical, there's a reasonable sensitivity to the need to consult before a change is made which will be controversial
<sabdfl> though there are lots of examples where controversy was not anticipated
<vuntz> sabdfl: is there any way for the community to veto such a Canonical-made decision?
<sabdfl> it has happened, but not through veto, rather through suasion
<sabdfl> for example
<sabdfl> i wanted to enable proprietary video drivers by default at one stage
<sabdfl> on the basis that they would enable a lot more people to actually use Ubuntu
<sabdfl> and we had already taken the social beating for being tolerant of those drivers, from folk who felt that was inappropriate (even though they themselves often used the drivers ;-))
<sabdfl> but after discussing it with the CC, the change was not made
<joaopinto> sabdfl, I don't think those changes are properly communicated, frequently such changes are known to the community from your communications or from upstream developers
<sabdfl> the CC is the forum I would test, consult, or brief on a change, depending
<sabdfl> joaopinto: it's always going to be the case that someone can argue they were not aware of a change
<sabdfl> frequently, for example, i find myself learning of changes long after they've been made
<sabdfl> strangely, people seem to feel empowered to Just Do Stuff without clearing it with me first all the time ;-)
<joaopinto> sabdfl, that happens, because there is no clearly definition for which should be informed and how, about different type of changes
<mdke> there's a big difference between that and clearly controversial changes being made without prior public discussion
<sabdfl> well
<sabdfl> consultation about a "clearly controversial change" will not result in consensus
<sabdfl> so, a tough decision usually needs to be made about whether the change is worth trying despite the controversy
<joaopinto> mdke, I actually see that at the same light, you don't discuss because there is no process in place to bring those changes into the community with a proper timing
<mdke> why not?
<sabdfl> mdke: because it's human nature to have divergent opinions about complex issues
<sabdfl> i think consultation is most appropriate when it can have a material impact on the outcome
<vuntz> sabdfl: it's also human nature to prefer having been consulted, even if your opinion is not the winning one :-)
<mdke> it can always have a material impact on the outcome
<sabdfl> otherwise, it's dishonest
<mdke> otherwise you don't believe in discussion as valuable at all
<joaopinto> sabdfl, the goal is not consensus, imagine some tell you that they are evaluating to implement something and would like your oppinion, but they made very clear that you don't have a decision, you just want their feedback
<sabdfl> vuntz: true
<cody-somerville> Someone told me that Canonical asked the CC for permissions to integrate the Ubuntu One store into rhythmbox but they didn't with regards to the banshee change and thats why they felt this situation was different. I'm curious if this is actually the case.
<sabdfl> i did say "worth trying". i'm not aware of any changes which could not be un-done
<joaopinto> compare that to, "We have already decided to do this..."
<sabdfl> cody-somerville: no, we consulted with the CC on how best to integrate Ubuntu One, and had meaningful debates (i.e. that did influence outcome, or could have done so) about branding of things like the Software Center
<sabdfl> i think meritocracy implies a certain amount of permission to *make decisions*, knowing that those might be overruled
<sabdfl> and that makes for effective progress
<sabdfl> we just need to make sure that the best people are in position to make those decisions
<sabdfl> joaopinto: well, consider the qt decision
<joaopinto> sabdfl, permission should be used with transparency, otherwise it's an artificial meritocracy
<sabdfl> joaopinto: none of these changes have been made in secret
<sabdfl> back to qt
<sabdfl> i've said "we'll do this"
<sabdfl> but we're going to have a UDS between now and then
<sabdfl> it might get talked down then
<sabdfl> i could have said "we should talk about this"
<sabdfl> and i would have used that language if I thought it was an interesting idea, not an urgent need
<sabdfl> but it's better to use urgent language for an urgent need, so one signals appropriately
<sabdfl> so let's come back to the agenda item
<sabdfl> there's a request for a formal process for non-technical changes
<sabdfl> we clearly can't have a formal process for every single change
<sabdfl> and however we judge which changes might fall into the "needs process" category, someone will argue we missed some
<sabdfl> so i don't believe this is warranted or achievable, though i understand the emotions that give birth to the request
<joaopinto> sabdfl, I am sorry, but you also dont have a formal process for every technical changes, there are reasonable aspects to classify a change as being brought to change management
<sabdfl> in terms of "who has the right to make the call", i don't think any of the changes made, and referenced in this conversation, have been made without authority
<sabdfl> joaopinto: we have guidance on that
<sabdfl> i often have people ask me if a particular idea or change should be raised, and with whom
<sabdfl> and more importantly, people often do consult on changes inside and outside the Ubuntu community, without asking me, they just do it
<sabdfl> sometimes we get it wrong
<sabdfl> and sometimes we piss people off with a change
<vuntz> sabdfl: honest question (I don't know the answer): were there controversial non-technical changes that were discussed before being pushed?
<sabdfl> and sometimes we make a change which is a mistake and have to revert it
<joaopinto> so in summary you are the general change manager ?
<sabdfl> joaopinto: no, there are tens of people who make calls on this stuff every release cycle
<vuntz> sabdfl: if yes, it probably wouldn't hurt to remind them just to show that discussion does occur, even if it's not always the case
<sabdfl> i never had sight of the "Sent from Ubuntu", though I was a supporter of the idea after I saw the controversy
<pleia2> sabdfl: I think the breakdown here is that you're getting those questions, there seems to be impression that decisions that are made and not open to discussion (particularly when Canonical is involved), even if they wanted to people don't know where that discussion should happen, so it ends up on blogs with a lot of misinfermation and frustration
<sabdfl> well
<sabdfl> everything is open to discussion
<pleia2> maybe that's something that should be made more clear somehow
<sabdfl> but at the same time, i do believe we need decisiveness and leadership and can't afford to be afraid of controversy
<joaopinto> sabdfl, who and how are those calls made ? that's the entire point, you may know, most of the community does not know
<sabdfl> it's us or android, folks
<sabdfl> joaopinto: they are made in lots of places
<cody-somerville> I'm curious. Is there any particular reason why the Ubuntu One store wasn't integrated into banshee instead of changing the referral code? Wouldn't that avoid this issue and provide a more integrated experience? Is it more complicated than that? If this was already discussed and there are good reasons feel free to just point me at the spec.
<sabdfl> think how many tough decisions are made in #ubuntu-devel or -devel which we KNOW are going to infuriate someone in Debian but which we believe to be the right decision!
<sabdfl> would you rather we were afraid to stand for something we believe in?
<sabdfl> this is true of EVERYONE who takes on responsibility in the project
<sabdfl> not just some secret Canonical cabal :-)
<sabdfl> cody-somerville: that would imply that our right to revenue stems only from U1
<sabdfl> which is not the case
<vuntz> I don't think anybody is saying "decisions should be taken much more slowly"
<joaopinto> sabdfl, wouldn't it be  beneficial to bring them to a single place ? Those lot of places result in lot of places for discussion later, based on lack of information, because there is no single place to gather such information
<sabdfl> Ubuntu service revenue rightfully belongs with Canonical, and we are committed to (and have demonstrated in practice) sharing that with projects which are in the relevant pipe
<vuntz> quick decisions are not incompatible with proper announcement/warning/whatever-you-want-to-call-it (which will lead to discussion, which is good)
<pleia2> joaopinto: I believe the sounder mailing list was initially put together for discussions like this
<sabdfl> joaopinto: we delegate a lot of responsibility, for a reason
<pleia2> (it has since diverged a lot from that and just become general off-topic)
<sabdfl> sounder worked when it was invite-only
<sabdfl> i don't think that would work so well now :-)
<popey> apologies for being late.
<ogra> vuntz, but how do you decide whats worth that discussion from the 100s of changes we make every day ?
<sabdfl> hey popey
<joaopinto> sabdfl, you are missing my point, this is all about identifying responsibility and delegation
<vuntz> ogra: you'll miss some for sure. But it's better to miss some than miss all :-)
<sabdfl> joaopinto: all of the decisions you refer to *were* taken by the appropriate people, in my view
<vuntz> ogra: (which is the current feeling at the moment)
 * ogra makes many decisions during a work week, sometimes unpopular ones for the community i work with ... which is the ARM comminty and really small, would you expect me to consult sabdfl and the community for each of them ?
<mhall119> vuntz: the bigger problem will be a flood of things that aren't worth that discussion
<sabdfl> and the fact that, whenever anyone is upset about any decision, they could argue that "this should have been consulted on, on the basis of that policy"
<ogra> i mean my community i work with in some cases sees the world end ... its just a smaller scale but a similar thing
<sabdfl> so one could slow everything down and still upset people :-)
<vuntz> mhall119: I think it's fair to say that some decisions can be guessed as controversial, and there are not 100s of such decisions per week
<vuntz> mhall119: again, some controversial decisions will be missed this way
<sabdfl> vuntz: yes, and generally we try to consult appropriately
<mhall119> vuntz: it's probably also fair to that this is already the case
<sabdfl> and mistakes happen then, just like they would happen if the policy was "consult on everything"
<joaopinto> sabdfl, again, I don't know who is the "appropriate people", it would help me to contact the right people if I knew, instead of resorting to blogs
<mhall119> that this was one of the "missed" ones
<vuntz> sabdfl: sure, I'm fine with mistakes happening
<sabdfl> joaopinto: rick spencer leads the Ubuntu platform team
<sabdfl> mdz leads the TB
 * ogra thinks the more important part is that there is openess for dicsussion *after* the change is being announced
<sabdfl> the buck stops with me
<ogra> and *before* the release is out
<vuntz> ogra: the issue is that when it's after, people feel hurt
<ogra> its not like such changes are decided on release day
<sabdfl> there are other people - folks engaged with U1, and Launchpad, and of course people who lead stuff like kernel and toolchain
<sabdfl> all of them have taken controversial decisions in the past
<sabdfl> ask around
<sabdfl> anyhow
<ogra> vuntz, thats my point, its not *after* its *during*
<ogra> release of natty is in april
<ogra> the change was made now
<vuntz> ogra: I meant "after the change is being announced", not "after the release is out"
<ogra> and there was openess for discussing it before release
<ogra> well, you have to release it somehow
<ogra> but you cant announce every change
<DarkwingDuck> for those who want to disscuss everything in the community before its implimented, what forum would you want, how much talking is needed and how many of the hundreds of changes are you looking for? if the idea is that the community votes on changes then a 6 month release cycle will be hard if not impossible to work with.
<ogra> s/release/announce/ (sorry)
<vuntz> ogra: nobody is asking for that :-)
<huats> ogra, I think you mean "there IS openess" since as you said the release is in appril
<sabdfl> vuntz: i take it you just want to be sure there was consultation on all the things you're going to have a divergent opinion from the decision maker on? ;-)
<ogra> huats, well, to my knowledge the case is setteled so far
<vuntz> sabdfl: oh, no
<mhall119> vuntz: I don't quite understand what the difference is between announcing that they intend to make a change, and announcing that they are discussing the fact that they intend to make a change
<joaopinto> DarkwingDuck, no, I did not suggest voting, neither I suggest that community approval was required, community awareness SHOULD BE required
<vuntz> sabdfl: I can disagree on, say, "use shotwell instead of f-spot", but I have nothing to argue against it except personal taste
<sabdfl> joaopinto: we don't do referendums on these sorts of changes
<sabdfl> so awareness can come before during or after a decision
<vuntz> sabdfl: so again, I don't feel everything has to go through consultation
<sabdfl> and again, i'm not aware of ANY change which cannot be undone
<DarkwingDuck> joaopinto: isnt that excatly what is happening though? we are 2 month from a release and talking about it. this (imo) is why the feture freeze is for
<sabdfl> i don't feel there is a definitive outcome on this topic, but i'd like to invite CC members to weigh in, then move on to the Banshee question
<ogra> vuntz, but the request is for a formal process ...
<ogra> so where do you draw the line
<vuntz> mhall119: between "hey, this is what we're doing, bye" and "hey, this is our plan, we'll implement it this week, what do you think?", there's a big difference to me
<ogra> and how do you formalize that line
<mhall119> vuntz: you the difference is the "what do you think" being thrown in at the end?
<vish> joaopinto: as ogra mentioned, Natty is *not yet* out.. there is still nearly 2months to release in a 6month cycle.. it is still in development and the communication is going on now, where was the delay?
<sabdfl> mhall119: is it honest to throw that in, when sufficient consensus amongst leaders is in place to move on the decision?
<vuntz> mhall119: it's part of the difference. But even saying "this is our plan, we'll implement it this week" is slightly better than "we're doing this"
<joaopinto> vish, the delay was in the part that we were informed by an Banshee developer
<pleia2> this certainly is a difficult problem, without major policy changes I think the best which can be done right now is make dicision makers aware that they should be as open as possible during their decision process, and make sure the community knows that discussion is allowed and welcome
<mhall119> sabdfl: I don't think so, personally
<sabdfl> agreed
<mhall119> vuntz: how about a day instead of a week?
<mhall119> or an hour?
<vuntz> mhall119: broken release process, I'd argue, if you need to implement the change within an hour
<vish> joaopinto: jono also , blogged about it on the same day as the second proposal, considering the first one was just in the works....
<joaopinto> vish, also also, in the part the that Banshee developer was eager to know what would be the Ubuntu community feedback, as we had any relevance on the decision
<joaopinto> as if
<mhall119> vuntz: broken decision process, I'd argue, if you have to wait when you're ready to implement
<sabdfl> thanks pleia2
<sabdfl> mdke? popey?
<mdke> sorry, I had to step away
<popey> I do worry that we dont learn from our mistakes
<vuntz> mhall119: it can be implemented in a branch, in a ppa, in whatever. No need to wait
<popey> we have track record of doing these things mid-cycle
<mdke> but I pretty much disagreed with everything I read before then :(
<pleia2> I think the design team blog is a wonderful example of a group which has learned from their mistakes
<popey> causing a fuss, and then reverting things after 'consultantion' or 'backlash'
<popey> indeed
<DarkwingDuck> joaopinto: okay, we were informed by the devs... had we been informed by canonical then the banshee devs would be getting kicked because they were not being "open" about it...
<mhall119> vuntz: isn't that how the change was made?
<ogra> popey, how often did that occur in 6 years of ubuntu
<mhall119> it's not like they were changing the code right in the archives
<vuntz> mhall119: I don't know, but it was not communicated this way
<mdke> I don't like reading that Canonical owns Ubuntu. I'd like to see a concept where Ubuntu is a community driven project, with Canonical as the major funder and employee of many developers.
<mdke> If that is accepted, then it obviously follows that there should be a community governance team with overall supervision of such issues
<mdke> there's no reason why such a team could not be sensitive to Canonical interests as we all are now
<joaopinto> DarkwingDuck, I don't have any relation with the Banshee devs, I do have with the Ubuntu community, I am sure the Banshee have their own rules of communication, which is not in our scope
<popey> ogra: about once per release :)
<joaopinto> mdke, I believed it was like that, until recently
<ogra> nah, surely not that often
<Technoviking> ogra: close to that
<mdke> joaopinto: I think I stopped believing it a while before you then. But I haven't given up hope in the concept
<ogra> i agree it got more in the recent releases
<mdke> equally, in such a scheme, Canonical employees contributing to Ubuntu would follow the same principles of transparent and public work that volunteer Ubuntu developers follow
<sabdfl> mdke: i appreciate that's a noble idea, but i don't believe it's workable
<ogra> but i disagree that we had 12 such cases
<mhall119> mdke: I don't think you want the community footing the bill for Ubuntu's development
<joaopinto> IMHO we are moving from, Canonical supporting the Ubuntu community, to the Ubuntu community support Canonical
<mdke> mhall119: please re-read what I said, it's nothing like that
<sabdfl> pity ;-)
<mhall119> mdke: you didn't say it, but your suggestion that Canonical would fund something that can't direct seems....odd
<popey> ogra: yahoo/google search, buttons, font, spacial windows, calendar, fspot/shotwell decision, gimp removal decision..
<mdke> mhall119: not really. Canonical can build a business plan around it
<mhall119> mdke: isn't that what brought all this up?
<ogra> popey, yeah, i dont get much more together as well
<mdke> sabdfl: I believe that unless you open up to a concept like that one in due course, eventually Ubuntu will lose attraction to volunteers entirely. The alternative is very demotivating
<pleia2> mdke: it's the concept I keep hope in too and I think we should strive for, even if we end up making concessions for reality
<mdke> mhall119: no, it's because Canonical is building a plan around your idea
<mhall119> my idea?
<vish> popey:  "fspot/shotwell decision, gimp removal decision".. iirc, these were taken during the UDS
<ogra> popey, though i would exclude calendar here ;)
<mdke> mhall119: I mean, the idea that Canonical can control the project
<joaopinto> sabdfl, you used a nice example, about branding, you have a clear distinction there, we don't have such clear distinction about changes on Ubuntu, they do not have a brand
<mhall119> mdke: well they did start it, they do fund it, they do market it and promote it....
<mdke> mhall119: sorry if that was rather clumsily expressed
<mdke> mhall119: I know that, and appreciate every penny
<popey> I'm sorry, I'm being kicked out and as such am losing my net access.
<mhall119> appreciation doesn't pay salaries
<sabdfl> joaopinto: my point was that the branding should reflect ownership. canonical ultimately is responsible for the CD we publish - we stand behind it legally
<Technoviking> popey: thanks, have a safe trip home
<vuntz> mhall119: are you saying that all volunteers in the Ubuntu community should simply accept all Canonical decisions in all cases?
<mdke> mhall119: we're going around in circles. As I said, Canonical can still operate as a business in my concept of the Ubuntu project. Indeed that was how I understand Canonical was conceived
<sabdfl> but "feeling ownership" is much more rich and complex than "legal ownership"
<sabdfl> which is why the hard answer, while true, is misleading
<mhall119> vuntz: volunteers vote with their time, Canonical knows this
<sabdfl> i think mdke is saying that "people need to feel ownership to be interested"
<sabdfl> and i agree
<sabdfl> but we cannot ALL own the WHOLE
<sabdfl> we'll drive each other nuts
<mdke> sabdfl: you're right, I don't care too much about legal ownership here
<joaopinto> sabdfl, I don't want to own anything, I just want to know who owns what, in what relates to product changes
<sabdfl> the meritocratic approach says "hey, demonstrate competence in something, demonstrate commitment and classiness and social skills, and we'll give you responsibility for that part of things"
<mdke> sabdfl: I'm not arguing for a community where everyone is consulted on every decision; but rather simply a meritocracy based community where being employed by Canonical doesn't grant automatic meritocracy
<sabdfl> "and you'll get to make real decisions. you'll probably be accountable to some folk, but you generally get to move forward quickly the way you think is best"
<mdke> sabdfl: and where a community based council has ultimate supervision over non-technical as well as technical decisions
<sabdfl> that's pretty motivating
<mdke> you would still be the sabdfl :)
<sabdfl> joaopinto: name a change, i can name the owner :-)
<joaopinto> sabdfl, that's not efficient and does not scale
<sabdfl> we've heard from just about everybody on this
<sabdfl> joaopinto: well, name an area you care about, and i can tell you who to talk to, and if you shine, you can be the owner
<sabdfl> how's that?
<sabdfl> but what also does not scale, is a framework where anybody (especially people who do not contribute) can challenge people who ARE empowered to make decisions, on every decision
<mhall119> joaopinto: that information can probably be found in launchpad too, it's not just in sabdfl's head
<joaopinto> why do would you prefer over transferring that knowledge to a public board ?
<vuntz> sabdfl: can paid services be owned by non-Canonical people?
<sabdfl> joaopinto: because it's dynamic, complex, fast moving
<sabdfl> i promise, you can learn whatever you want just by asking
<sabdfl> what you can't do is insist that it all be published in advance in a way which will pass the scrutiny of hindsight
<sabdfl> now
<sabdfl> this topic has taken enough of our time
<sabdfl> pleia2: can we move on to the banshee topic please?
<ogra> vuntz, why not ?
<mhall119> it's time for me to go, but I appreciate having a chance to be heard
<sabdfl> i have to wake up in 5 hours and be bendy not grumpy
<pleia2> [TOPIC] Amazon MP3 store in Natty & referral fees
<vuntz> ogra: I don't know, I'm just asking
<MootBot> New Topic:  Amazon MP3 store in Natty & referral fees
<sabdfl> as i blogged today, Canonical folks made several mistakes
<mdz> vuntz, there is software in Ubuntu, tied to paid services, which has nothing to do with Canonical
<sabdfl> first, we didn't deal with the money question at UDS
<mdz> and every other major distribution for that matter
<pleia2> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/611
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/611
<mdke> crickey, wasn't that the banshee topic?
<sabdfl> i thought we had, but i didn't follow up on that
<vuntz> mdke: nah, but that covered most of it, I guess
<sabdfl> second, when it did come up, someone who wasn't in a good position to be handling that conversation, suggested there was a choice to be made, which there wasn't
<mdke> vuntz: guess so
<sabdfl> mdke: we did the general one bout non-technical changes, first
<sabdfl> all in all, that resulted in a much worse experience for banshee folk than should have
<sabdfl> for which i apologise
<sabdfl> i stand by the principle, though, that affiliate fees generated on ubuntu should benefit ubuntu first
<sabdfl> and directing those to canonical is thus appropriate
<sabdfl> and second, that we should figure out how to share the benefits of those with relevant upstreams
<sabdfl> this was thought out when we founded canonical - these sorts of services were a key part of the rationale for doing so
<sabdfl> we were a little ahead of the curve ;-)
<chuckf> why are the banshee donations the only ones to be allocated to Canonical?
<sabdfl> chuckf: i don't understand?
<mdz> chuckf, what donations?
<chuckf> for instance the VIM people ask that people donate to a particular charity if you find their software useful.
<chuckf> Their links have never been changed
<sabdfl> chuckf: this is different
<chuckf> how?
<mdz> chuckf, we are not talking about donations at all
<sabdfl> in that spirit, though, we are adding the ability to donate straight to upstreams in the software center
<charlie-tca> chuckf: you are never forced to pay that donation unless you decide to
<chuckf> and I'm not forced to purchase from Amazon
<rww> chuckf: Affiliate revenue and donations are rather different. This is more akin to, e.g., changing the default search engine because another search company offered revenue share. It's not a direct donation.
<jono> chuckf, affiliate fees are not donations, they are a part of the revenue generated
<rww> ^
<sabdfl> chuckf: the question really is this: who brought you to amazon? was it ubuntu? or was it banshee?
<sabdfl> and the answer in our view is: a bit of both
<chuckf> but if I do so via Banshee I should have the option to use their plugin and support them in the manner they desire, which is to have their monies go to the Gnome foundation
<sabdfl> chuckf: you will have that option, of course
<sabdfl> download and install the plugin, et voila
<vuntz> sabdfl: would it be possible to have some open accounting, to ensure that the money benefits Ubuntu directly?
<charlie-tca> um, you have the right to donate directly to banshee or gnome or anyone else, without canonical getting any money
<sabdfl> vuntz: that's predicated on a distrust of canonical which i can't accept
<ogra> charlie-tca, but then you dont get the music :)
<charlie-tca> oh, well
<vish> chuckf: for a better (graphical) understanding of this  > http://www.ndftz.com/nickelanddime.png by andy fitz
<chuckf> the affiliate fees are the way the donation money is generated by the Banshee project.
<sabdfl> no
<sabdfl> if a person chooses to donate to banshee, banshee gets the money
<sabdfl> if a person uses ubuntu to buy music from amazon, canonical gets the referral, and will share that with the upstream we think made that possible
<chuckf> so if the banshee project collected the fees as donations to themselves you would not be changing the plugin?
<sabdfl> firefox, or banshee, or rhythmbox, or the zsh maintainers
<chuckf> I wouldn't use ubuntu to buy the music, I would use banshee
<mdke> sabdfl: it's not distrust at all. There must be plenty of other answers you could have chosen to vuntz's question that are more convincing than that! Like the difficulty in ring-fencing funding for free vs non-free projects, confidentiality as against business competitors, etc
<sabdfl> chuckf: i don't really understand what you're saying, but yes, i think we would change the plugin
<sabdfl> mdke: floor's yours :-)
<mdke> sabdfl: I just wanted to point out that people calling for that are not distrusting Canonical. I can't actually answer the question
<pleia2> sabdfl: I think he's saying, for instance, a "donate to banshee" button inside of banshee, whether canonical would want a cut (I think not)
<chuckf> I'm saying if the banshee group said 'purchase through this affiliate link to donate to the banshee project' would canonical want a cut?
<pleia2> I would hope that upstream and downstream would have better relations than to have something come down to that :)
<jono> chuckf, I believe Canonical have a right to take a cut as it invests so heavily in delivering the technology - but for explicit donations it should be a smaller cut
<jono> for affiliate arrangements, I think the cut is fine to be higher
<chuckf> another question I have about this is I keep seeing that Canonical is taking a 75% cut and sending 25% of the revenue to Gnome. Is that 25% of the total or 25% of Canonical's 75%?
<sabdfl> chuckf: the way you describe it, we would make the change, yes. the way pleia2 describes it, no, we would actually try to make that easier for people
<jono> chuckf, I believe it is 25% of the full amount
<sabdfl> chuckf: we're willing to share 25% of this with the banshee folks, who say they would like that to go to gnome
<rww> chuckf: The way Amazon affiliation works is that n% of sales go to the affiliate. 75% of that n% will go to Canonical. 25% of that n% go to GNOME.
<chuckf> so out of a $1 affiliate fee .25 goes to banshee, .75 goes to Canonical and how much goes from Canonical to Gnome?
<jono> can I ask what the goal of this agenda is vuntz?
<mdke> none - it is banshee who are donating their 25% to gnome, as I have understood the above
<vuntz> related to this topic, and something we haven't covered yet: the current situation didn't improve the relationship between one upstream and Ubuntu, while the Ubuntu community itself had no real word in the decision. This might happen again in the future. Is there anything that can be done to prevent the Ubuntu community being a collateral damage?
<rww> I was under the impression it was going directly Canonical -> GNOME. If Banshee's getting money out of this, I'm conflating and please s/GNOME/Banshee/ above.
<vuntz> jono: most of this agenda item was actually covered during the discussion of the last item (which occurred before this one)
<jono> vuntz, ok
<joaopinto> The relevance of this discussion is based on actual results (which we don't have) and perceived values of distributions versus upstream
<sabdfl> rww: in our view, banshee is entitled to a share. they have indicated they want *any* revenue to support the gnome foundation. so, if they agree, that's where we'll send it. if they stick fingers in ears and tongues out, we'll put it to good use ourselves ;-)
<sabdfl> look, we screwed up the engagement. this should have been crystal clear at UDS, and it wasn't
<azeem> wait, you're saying if banshee people don't agree you'll just use the 25% share for whatever you like?
<chuckf> so what is being said is that all donations to upstream projects should be filtered via Canoncial as a delivery fee?
<azeem> chuckf: this is not about donations
<sabdfl> azeem: if banshee don't want the money, hell yes we can use it!
<vuntz> azeem: jono said "but for explicit donations it should be a smaller cut"
<vuntz> azeem: which still implies a cut
<jono> that would be my personal preference, vuntz
<jono> I am not speaking for Canonical there
<mdke> I'm going to have to quit I'm afraid. Interesting discussion and I hope there will be more along similar lines in due course
<sabdfl> cheers mdke, thanks for weighing in
<mdke> sorry I wasn't around long
<pleia2> vuntz: sabdfl clafiried in "the way pleia2 describes it, no, we would actually try to make that easier for people" (my description was an explicit donate button)
<mdke> ciao
<chuckf> azeem: from what jono just said at 17:34:46 it sounds like they are talking about taking a cut of all donations
<joaopinto> mdke, bye, thanks
<jono> chuckf, <jono> that would be my personal preference, vuntz
<jono>  I am not speaking for Canonical there
<pleia2> vuntz: does mark's blog post saying "we made a mistake, we want to do better" help at all?
<sabdfl> we are not here to negotiate all future permutations and combinations of possibilities, hmmmk ;-)
<joaopinto> chuckf, just ask Mark , he knows about the changes ;)
<sabdfl> indeed ;-)
<azeem> vuntz: crazy
<sabdfl> here's the important bit
<vuntz> pleia2: re sabdfl's clarification, it actually doesn't clarify anything since it doesn't mention whether there's a cut or not ;-)
<vuntz> pleia2: re sabdfl's post: I don't think it helped a lot upstream, to be honest
<sabdfl> this is a real opportunity for free software projects to get consistent financial support without having to jump through impossible hoops
<sabdfl> there are those who want to beat up on canonical and ubuntu
<sabdfl> we simply cannot satisfy them
<sabdfl> what we CAN do
<sabdfl> is demonstrate a nice flow of income to banshee
<azeem> is getting into the paypal business
<sabdfl> and any other projects who are interested in this model
<sabdfl> and i think that's fantastic
<vuntz> or well, I'm sorry. I think acknowledging the communication issue does help a bit. But it won't change people's mind
<sabdfl> vuntz: tough
<chuckf> sabdfl: if its not done in an open manner it is hard to trust when it comes to someone else collecting money
<pleia2> vuntz: what would in the immediate term?
<sabdfl> chuckf: it's a lot more open than most other forms of indirect support
<sabdfl> for example
<sabdfl> how much of the revenue red hat makes from support contracts for apache get delivered as cash to apache.org?
<sabdfl> go figure
<sabdfl> this is clean, crisp, and transparent
<sabdfl> yes, it's discretionary
<sabdfl> but it's a share of revenue, not an occasional cheque for a conference or sprint
<sabdfl> i think we're WAY better for free software projects than the other models i've seen
<sabdfl> and on that basis, we're moving forward
<vuntz> pleia2: I guess most people would like Canonical to reconsider the whole thing to come to a middle ground; but my understanding is that it won't happen
<sabdfl> vuntz: it will not
<vuntz> and knowing that it won't happen actually makes things worse :/
<jono> vuntz, can you articulate what will be made worse?
<vuntz> sabdfl: right. I'm just trying to explain why upstream feels bad
<sabdfl> i hope, in due course, you feel differently
<charlie-tca> It would not be as controversial if it was not as open
<vuntz> jono: it sounds like "no, we don't want to listen to you"
<vuntz> jono: I'm not saying this is what it means. But it sounds like this
<jono> vuntz, to who? Banshee?
<joaopinto> sabdfl, why do you keep comparing RH business products? RH community product is Fedora, not RHEL
<vuntz> jono: I can't talk for banshee people
<jono> vuntz, so who do you feel it would the send the message of not listening to?
<sabdfl> vuntz: it says "we believe we have a fair and equitable model that can work wonders for you and other projects, if you don't want to engage on that basis, we respect that, if you do, where should we send the cheque?"
<vuntz> jono: but to the gnome community in general, that's how it sounded
<sabdfl> joaopinto: Fedora is RHEL's open core
<jono> vuntz, but this isnt really anything to do with the GNOME Community - it is an arrangement between Canonical and Banshee surely?
<vuntz> jono: that's negating the fact that banshee people are close to gnome people and vice-versa
<chuckf> From where I sit, as a member of the community, I see this as yet another 'Community, we have the right to do this leagally so we're doing it' decision from Canonical
<jono> vuntz, agreed, but the Ubuntu community is close to the GNOME community
<vuntz> jono: not as close as the banshee one
<jono> vuntz, my only point is that the views of the peanut gallery is not necessarily a reason to change things
<jono> change should happen for reasonable reasons
<vuntz> jono: I just explained the perception. I was not even advocating for a change here :-)
<vuntz> jono: I can start advocating for a change, but I don't think it'd be useful ;-)
 * highvoltage wonders who exactly jono considers part of the "peanut gallery" though
<jono> highvoltage, those with an opinion on the issue, who have little or nothing to do with either project
 * chuckf nods to highvoltage's comment
<maco> chuckf++
<highvoltage> jono: that's fair enough
<jono> btw, my view includes opinions from the peanut gallery in favor of the current revshare arrangement
<jono> :-)
<jono> Ubuntu has never been a popularity content, but I consider the views of the Banshee core devs as very important opinions to consider
<jono> because they have contributed significantly to that experience in Ubuntu
<vuntz> jono: and did you get positive feedback from banshee core devs?
<joaopinto> chuckf, is not how you see it, is how it really is
<jono> vuntz, some critical, some neutral
<jono> the criticism was rightly around the mishandling of the discussions
<joaopinto> business decisions are Canonical's business
<jono> for which hey have every right to be frustrated
<jono> in many of the discussions the core devs were respectful of the split, but chose to not support
<jono> it
<sabdfl> ok
<jono> anyway, I have taken enough of the floor
<jono> :-)
<sabdfl> it's 1am here, i need to step away
<pleia2> I need to get back to work, how do we want to wrap this up?
<sabdfl> graciously?
<pleia2> :)
<vuntz> sabdfl: crazy you! ;-)
<charlie-tca> sabdfl: thank you for listening
<sabdfl> so my bankers tell me, every time i tell them about this "giving stuff away" thing
<sabdfl> well, thanks to lots of people for commenting and helping to steer things forward
<joaopinto> thanks for your time, a social pleasant meeting despite the void effectiveness
<sabdfl> i really do hope, in a few years, this is seen as a positive trend we led, not a ghastly detour
<sabdfl> but i will say this
<highvoltage> goodnight sabdfl and thanks for all the explanation
<sabdfl> ubuntu was built for exactly this
<sabdfl> i think it's an awesome deal, for upstreams and people who participate and use ubuntu
<sabdfl> and of course canonical
<highvoltage> one day I hope I have enough money to go to cape town too whenever I feel like it :)
<porthose> wow interesting indeed :)
<pleia2> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 16:59.
<jono> thanks for everyone's participation
<sabdfl> thanks for chairing, pleia2
<pleia2> sure thing
<sabdfl> night all
<sabdfl> well
<jono> night sabdfl
<vuntz> good night
<joaopinto> good night
<sabdfl> one last reboot for the new unity packages :-)
<pleia2> good night :)
<Technoviking> night
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-03-02
<chalcedony> while waiting Full Circle Magazine: http://fullcirclemagazine.org/issue-46/
<chalcedony> Direct: http://dl.fullcirclemagazine.org/issue46_en.pdf
<cjwatson> no Robbie today?
<barry> no
<cjwatson> bah, slacker :)
<cjwatson> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:04. The chair is cjwatson.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<cjwatson> ok, who's here?
<barry> o/
<ev> o/
<mvo> hello
<jhunt> hi
<csurbhi1> o/
<cjwatson> doko: around?
<doko> here
<cjwatson> great, so everyone except Robbie
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Lightning round
<MootBot> New Topic:  Lightning round
<cjwatson> done: biosdevname packaging and integration; fixing bugs for alpha-3, including most of a day spent tracking down bug 723482
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 723482 in alsa-utils (Ubuntu) "system hangs on boot after updates from 2011-02-22" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/723482
<cjwatson> todo: more bugs arising from multiarch dpkg; lots of beta-1 bugs to beat on
<cjwatson> --
<cjwatson> in order of showing up in my client, then :)
<cjwatson> barry:
<barry> short week due to usa holiday; python-keyring, launchpadlib bug fixing, upgrades; reviewed some branches; claws bugs 724414 724416; ubuntu dev guide/udd updates; helped #ubuntu-touch w/python issues; python hg experimentation; mm3 refactoring; udd class presented; dh_python2 and flufl.enum; done.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 724414 in claws-mail (Ubuntu) "Configure menu is disabled" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/724414
<cjwatson> ev:
<barry> that one was caused by some weird brokenness in an early maverick->natty upgrade (which i never did track down)
<barry> bug 724416 is the one that's kicking my butt now
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 724416 in claws-mail (Ubuntu) "Claws appends sent message to Sent folder twice" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/724416
<ev> Getting the partitioner redesign and upgrade/reinstall stuff ready for alpha 3. Fixing bugs. (Apologies for the terseness, on an iPad)
<ev> Done
<mvo> upgrade/reinstall: \o/
<cjwatson> mvo:
<mvo> rnr-server:
<mvo> review branch reviews
<mvo> land lp:~mvo/rnr-server/retrieve-by-id
<mvo> propose lp:~mvo/rnr-server/make-port-configurable,
<mvo> propose lp:~mvo/rnr-server/validate-token-without-ubuntu-sso
<mvo> software-center:
<mvo> add weblive prototype (with stgraber), fix crash after new review is entered, lp:~gary-lasker/software-center/deauthorize-my-computer, work on lp:~mvo/software-center/appstore-experiment but not successful (keeps hanging in odd places), branch review/merges
<ev> Thanks so much for your help with that. I'll get to your emails just as soon as I have more of a computer in front of me.
<mvo> Update-manager:
<mvo> review/merge lp:~thibault-lemaitre/ubuntu/natty/update-manager/from_pkg.isInstalled_to_pkg.is_installed
<mvo> work on 3g roaming detection (based on Alex Chiang patch)
<mvo> (done)
<mvo> ev: no worries
<jhunt> 3 of the 4 main Upstart feature branches for Natty are now "in the
<jhunt> wild". Finished check-config Upstart feature along with all tests for
<jhunt> visualisation work: branch just needs merging to be ready for early next
<jhunt> week. Have digested + documented socket bridge for Upstart for Natty
<jhunt> code drop 2. Currently working on Keybuks session branch, and merging
<jhunt> visualisation code into Ubuntu branch. Updated FFE bug 723846 with
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 723846 in upstart (Ubuntu Natty) "Feature Freeze Exception request for Upstart in Natty" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/723846
<jhunt> progress.
<jhunt> EOT
<cjwatson> csurbhi1:
<csurbhi1> Introduced timer in mountall to wait for ROOTDELAY time for device to be configured by udev.
<csurbhi1> Created, tested upstart jobs to start the recovery process if the ROOTDELAY time expires.
<csurbhi1> Created, tested upstart jobs to run the initramfs :: init_top and initramfs :: init_premount scripts
<csurbhi1> Experimented with udev attributes in upstart jobs (waiting for device configuration in real systems outside initramfs)
<csurbhi1> DONE
<cjwatson> doko:
<doko> bootstrap work, libreoffice mentoring, libreoffice build fixes for two archs, looking into openjdk-6 build failures, need to fix more ...
<doko> --
<cjwatson> excellent, thank you.  is anyone blocked on anything?
<doko> http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20110125-natty.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20110125-natty.html
<mvo> not as such, but I'm waiting for a new staging.reviews.ubuntu.com deployment
<cjwatson> is that in RT?
<mvo> yeah
<mvo> the review-userfulness feature is hidden until this lands
<doko> I think the ones in main should be looked at, but maybe this can wait next week's rebuild test
<cjwatson> ah, 44261?
<mvo> hold on a sec, need to find it in my inbox
<cjwatson> doko: I've already filed bugs about at least gluezilla and linphone
<mvo> #44197
<cjwatson> I'll have a look at syslinux
<cjwatson> uploads should probably wait until after alpha-2 now though
<doko> my latex knowledge seems to be rusty, can't see the reason for the srtp build failure
<ScottK> doko: What's the timeline on getting Bug #705689 fixed?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 705689 in Linaro GCC 4.5 "Qt applications crash with segfault error on armel when Qt is built with gcc 4.5 on natty" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/705689
<cjwatson> oh, goodness, that syslinux bug, I sent that upstream - I'll have to go and check
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<cjwatson> (since we've drifted and I don't have anything else specific)
<ScottK> I think we're going to start building all of KDE with gcc4.4 in the meantime if it's not fixed soon.
<cjwatson> there's a patch in comment 30 on that bug; I don't know if it's just for qgesturemanager, or fixes everything
<doko> ScottK: no
<doko> not targeted for any milestone
<doko> I don't see it yet in the linaro branch
<ScottK> It was targetted to Alpha 3 until a day or two ago.
<mvo> doko: the xscreensaver one looks like its actually a bug while instlaling console-setup - how to get stuff off that list in those cases?
<cjwatson> mvo: well, that's still a bug, just not in xscreensaver ...
<cjwatson> so I need to work on that
<doko> it's not targeted at all, hmm pitti ...
<cjwatson> should probably be beta-1, IMO
<doko> looks like this will be part of gcc-4.5 2011-03
<ScottK> When does that land?
<doko> in 03
<doko> lets move on, addressing this on #u-r
<cjwatson> OK, I don't think there's anything else anyway, from the looks of things
<cjwatson> mvo: I'm asking Chipaca if he's already escalated that RT or if I need to
<cjwatson> any other business?  going once ...
<cjwatson> going twice ...
<mvo> cjwatson: getting a ETA would be nice
<cjwatson> mvo: OK, I'll try to extract that from somebody
<cjwatson> ... gone.  thanks all.
<cjwatson> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:25.
<ev> Thanks
<barry> thanks!
<doko> meetings are shorter without robbie ;)
<jhunt> cheers
 * cjwatson has a low tolerance for long meetings
<mvo> thnkas!
<barry> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 15:01. The chair is barry.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<barry> hi everyone and welcome to this week's ubuntu distributed development steering committee meeting.  all are welcome to join in
<barry> [TOPIC] agenda
<MootBot> New Topic:  agenda
<barry> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment/20110302
<barry> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment/20110302
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment/20110302
<barry> we're going to wait a few minutes until poolie arrives
<barry> who else is here today?
<jelmer> me!
<jelmer> Hi Barry
<barry> hi jelmer.  great to have you here
<jelmer> barry: did you see poolie's email?
<jelmer> g'morning Ian
<barry> jelmer: yep, he said he'd be 15m late.  we can wait
<barry> if he's any longer, we'll start.  so folks, hang out until 2115 utc
<barry> okay, hopefully poolie will be along soon.  i guess we should get started though
<barry> [TOPIC] action items
<MootBot> New Topic:  action items
<barry> most of these are poolie's but please chime in if you know the status of them
<barry>    * poolie to advertise udd projects to non-staff contributors
<barry> i believe this is done
<barry>    * poolie to integrate jml's feedback into lep
<barry> anybody know anything about this one?
<jelmer> I don't think I've seen anything about the first item
<barry> oh, maybe i'm just thinking about the internal email
<barry>    * poolie to meet with allison re lep
<barry>    * poolie to meet with robbiew re lep
<barry> know anything about these?
<jelmer> I think the second item happened, or at least something about it happened.
<barry> i don't know what these leps are about.  do you know?
<jelmer> ah
<jelmer> it's https://dev.launchpad.net/LEP/BuildFromBranchIntoPrimary
<barry> ah, cool.  yep, i've been following that one
<jelmer> the LEP mentions Allison read it
<barry> cool, thanks
<barry>    * jam to propose/report plan for quilt imports
<barry> jam doesn't appear to be around
<barry> he's in a different timezone now :)
<jelmer> yeah, I guess something went wrong there :)
 * barry is particularly interested in this one
<jelmer> james_w: ping
<james_w> hi
<jelmer> barry: I've been working on getting daily builds of GNOME packages based on the upstream imports and the ubuntu-desktop packaging branches
<james_w> sorry I am late
<jelmer> barry: I'm slowly starting to realise what an awesome feature properly working looms would be
<barry> :)
<barry> jelmer: do you think looms<->quilts makes sense?
<jelmer> barry: Yes; I think we should fix looms where it doesn't make sense
<barry> very cool
<barry>    * poolie forward/link to https://wiki.linaro.org/Platform/DevPlatform/ComponentReleasesWithBzr
<barry>  
<barry> i guess w/o poolie we should move on
<barry> [TOPIC] Package importer progress
<MootBot> New Topic:  Package importer progress
<barry> james_w and/or jelmer ?
<jelmer> Vincent and John fixed a lot of things in the importer
<james_w> vila has done some good work cleaning up the code and making it more robust
<james_w> there were also some bugs fixed that were causing import failures
<slangasek> poolie did forward that link to ubuntu-devel, so maybe that's done?
<james_w> there's a bzr bug that spiv has a branch for that is affecting quite a few imports
<barry> slangasek: i do seem to remember it as well
<james_w> in fact it occurs when there is a collision detected
<james_w> and we had our first (known) real live one of those yesterday
<barry> james_w: what kind of collision do you mean?
<poolie> hi all
<james_w> so the crash indicates it would have done the right thing, but it was a shame not to see it work out :-)
<jelmer> 'morning poolie
<james_w> someone pushed to the branch at the same time someone else uploaded
<james_w> so the archive and the branch disagreed
<james_w> hi poolie
<barry> hi poolie
<barry> gotcha
<slangasek> james_w: is this a collision that only occurs when the upload and push both happen within a certain rescan interval?  Because we've certainly had collisions of the more general kind before
<barry> poolie: we ran through the action items already, but since most of them are assigned to you, can you catch us up in a few minutes?
<james_w> slangasek, you mean two people uploading, or collisions involving UDD?
<james_w> perhaps collision isn't the best name for this situation
<slangasek> james_w: one person committing to the UDD branch, followed by someone ignoring the branch and uploading
<poolie> sure
<james_w> slangasek, right, that's the same situation
<slangasek> james_w: ok, so yesterday is definitely not the first time this has happened, but maybe there's a new bug in bzr that's entangled here :)
<james_w> slangasek, ok, it was the first confirmed one that I could remember :-)
<slangasek> oh, sorry
<slangasek> didn't know you wanted me to yell when it happens :-)
<barry> james_w: any summary on how we're doing for package imports?  # or % fewer failures now?  how many still failing?
<james_w> slangasek, nope, it's supposed to be taken care of automatically. This time it was just that people weren't sure what would happen, and so asked me to take a look
<james_w> there are numbers and graphs on http://package-import.ubuntu.com/status/
<james_w> you can see that there has been a downward trend since the start of the year
<slangasek> a number of the current import failures are cases where I know there's been divergence between UDD and archive, followed by a manual fix-up on the branch
<barry> that's really fantastic
<slangasek> how can we reconcile those so they're not shown as failures?
<slangasek> (see, this has been going on for quite a while, and I thought I was doing good by updating the branches by hand ;)
<james_w> slangasek, do you have an example?
<slangasek> james_w: sure, one sec
<slangasek> james_w: qemu-linaro
<slangasek> also, armel-cross-toolchain-base cdbs gcc-4.5-armel-cross plymouth
<james_w> ok, that needs an importer admin to check and tell the importer that the situation is fine, and it should carry on
<slangasek> how best do I raise this (outside of the present meeting, that is?)
<slangasek> I think the one time I tried to raise it on #is, I had bad timing due to the importer being offline right after squeeze release :)
<james_w> a bug on udd would be appropriate I think
<slangasek> ok
<james_w> the procedure is documented on the wiki if you ask an admin and they don't know how to do it
<poolie> just what issue is "this"?
<james_w> that someone messed with the branches, and the importer currently keeps an audit log and complains when that happens
<poolie> ok
<barry> if now's a good time, poolie can you catch us up on the action items?
<poolie> sure
<poolie> so, we had a big thread about udd, with some feedback about the lep
<poolie> i still need to fold that in
<poolie> i spoke to allison about it; not yet to robbie
<poolie> i was going to update it and then talk to him
<poolie> i did forward a link to poolie forward/link to https://wiki.linaro.org/Platform/DevPlatform/ComponentReleasesWithBzr in to the packaging doc thread
<barry> did you advertise the udd projects to non-staff?
<poolie> not as such, only through discussion on the u-d list
<poolie> what would be a good way to do that?
<barry> other than also on the bzr mlists?  i don't know
<poolie> perhaps we should can that
<barry> cool.  i can leave that one un-done
<poolie> i think on the whole it's better to just be open about what we're doing and have easy tasks for people to begin on if they want
<barry> yep
<barry> poolie: do you know anything about jam's progress/plan for quilt imports?
<poolie> also, i spoke to flacoste and jml about scheduling work on the lep
<poolie> which is the main thing we have to do next
<poolie> it's not a very large amount of work, but it's not trivial
<poolie> s/on the lep/on building source packages directly from  branches without recipes
<poolie> at the moment it looks like it is second in the queue for new tasks to start
<poolie> after finishing disclosure management (aka privacy, acls, etc)
<barry> makes sense
<poolie> that one is highly desired by canonical oem teams, and still half-done
<poolie> [action] poolie talk to stakeholders about bfbip scheduling
<barry> [action] poolie talk to stakeholders about bfbip scheduling
<MootBot> ACTION received:  poolie talk to stakeholders about bfbip scheduling
<poolie> we could possibly try it ourselves inside the bzr team, but i think on the whole it's better to wait for an lp squad
<poolie> if they don't take it at that time, perhaps we will
<poolie> regarding jam and looms: he's moving house so a bit distracted
<poolie> i have seen some work by jelmer and others on looms recently
<barry> poolie: thanks.  any other news on action items?
<poolie> the plan on quilts is basically to turn the into looms
<poolie> i think that's the full list?
 * poolie looks in old minutes
<poolie> our kanban is now at <http://people.canonical.com/~mbp/kanban/canonical-bazaar-kanban.html> and should be updated every 30m
<poolie> were there other actions for me?
<poolie> otherwise perahps we should look at hot bugs
<barry> poolie: yes, let's look at bugs
<barry> [TOPIC] hot bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  hot bugs
<poolie> http://people.canonical.com/~mbp/kanban/canonical-bazaar-kanban.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~mbp/kanban/canonical-bazaar-kanban.html
<barry> poolie: the floor is yours
<poolie> just looking over that board
<poolie> one change in the last week is that vila landed a new controller infrastructure into the package importer, which is supposed to make it more reliable
<poolie> it closed some bugs, anyhow
<poolie> as of approximately today, we're moving the package importer to its new hardware, and making it sysadmin-maintained
<poolie> jelmer is working on foreign branch bugs, and on infrastructure to allow testing them
<barry> nice!
<poolie> are there any bugs people would like attention to?
<barry> i don't remember the bug number, but the one about warning when branching a package that has import failures.
<poolie> barry, <https://bugs.launchpad.net/udd/+bug/609187>, it's on the short list
<poolie> thanks for the vote
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 609187 in Ubuntu Distributed Development "bzr branch lp:ubuntu/foo should warn when foo is out of date" [High,Triaged]
<barry> yep, thanks!
<barry> anyone have anything else for bugs of interest?
<poolie> ok, next item?
<barry> [TOPIC]  * Any other business?
<barry>  
<MootBot> New Topic:   * Any other business?
<barry> going once...
<poolie> for next time: we should schedule some uds sessions
<barry> oh, i should mention: i did an intro to udd class on monday during ubuntu developer week.  it was very well received.  but 1h is not enough time to cover everything ;)
<poolie> oh, great!
<poolie> thanks for that
<james_w> yeah, thanks
<slangasek> I have a request I wanted to raise but I'm currently suffering contention, so I'll just file a bug against udd for now
<barry> np
<poolie> k
<poolie> actually, can you give me an item to prepare for uds?
<poolie> i think just something like a tutorial session and a planning session
<poolie> jelmer and i will be there
<barry> [action] poolie to prepare udd sessions for uds
<MootBot> ACTION received:  poolie to prepare udd sessions for uds
<barry> [action] poolie to prepare udd sessions for uds-o
<MootBot> ACTION received:  poolie to prepare udd sessions for uds-o
<barry> excellent.  i'll be there too
<barry> i guess the only other thing i have today is to remind folks that we won't have another meeting until 2011-03-23 because of pycon
<poolie> oh, ok
<barry> well, unless you want to chair it?
<barry> (on the 16th)
<poolie> i think the 23rd is fine
<poolie> shall we then continue every 2nd week from then?
<barry> yep
<barry> poolie: i think you are the keeper of the google calendar.  can you update that?
<jelmer> can I be added to the google calendar?
<poolie> done and done
<barry> poolie: awesome, thanks
<barry> if there's nothing else for today...
<barry> 5
<barry> 4
<barry> 3
<barry> 2
<barry> 1
<barry> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 16:09.
<poolie> have a good night everyone
<barry> thanks everyone!  see you in atlanta, or in 3 weeks here
<james_w> thanks
<jelmer> g'night
<barry> night
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-03-03
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 08:59. The chair is NCommander.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
 * rsalveti waves
<ogra> foopl
<NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2011/20110303
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2011/20110303
<NCommander> who's here?
<NCommander> There are no standing action items
<NCommander> [topic] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel.html
<MootBot> New Topic:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel.html
<janimo> hellp
<NCommander> ptopic] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel-natty-alpha-3.html
<rsalveti> help or hello? :P
<ogra> lol
<janimo> hello for now
<janimo> it may beocme help later in the cycle ;)
 * ogra was wondering exactly the same
<rsalveti> :-)
<GrueMaster> i'm not
<ogra> geez, the overall Wi status looks scary
<ogra> NCommander, the second link should be beta ;)
 * NCommander grumbles
<GrueMaster> It will be next week.
<GrueMaster> This week is still Alpha 3.
<ogra> heh
<ogra> for some minutes
<NCommander> no beta page doesn't exist
<GrueMaster> And it's a good indicator of how we did.
<janimo> for some reason 5 of my WIs were eaten by the parser and I cannot figure out why
<ogra> http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel-ubuntu-11.04-beta.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel-ubuntu-11.04-beta.html
<ogra> nah
<NCommander> I forgot to update teh WI tracker to postpone his WIs due to spec redesign. that's fixed now
<rsalveti> janimo: haha, true: http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/u/jani-natty-alpha-3.html
<ogra> looks broken
<NCommander> anyway, can I move on?
<NCommander> [topic] Unity 2D Status
<MootBot> New Topic:  Unity 2D Status
 * ogra glares at http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/
<ogra> janimo, so whats needed to get us the hedless image ?
<ogra> NCommander, no :P
<NCommander> ogra: I need to land janimo's branch
<GrueMaster> ogra: Can you save that for image status?
<ogra> (why do we have an 11.05)
<ogra> GrueMaster, still, there seems to be action needed to fix the WI tracker
<NCommander> ogra: probably for Linaro
<ogra> beta is broken completely
<NCommander> [action] ogra to fix WI tracker
<ogra> and there shouldnt be ubuntu-armel-11.05
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ogra to fix WI tracker
<GrueMaster> Beta hasn't started yet.
<ogra> doesnt matter for the tracker
<ogra> it just reports how the whiteboards are set
<ogra> date has no influence
<janimo> ogra, I don't know what else is needed, these build scripts are not well documented, let alone I am not working on the actual ones running the builds
<janimo> so I hope NCommander spots any irregularities
<ogra> action: everyone to check their WI status on the whiteboards that the right beta tag is set
<ogra> NCommander, ^^^
<janimo> or we try and if there are errors we fix after A3
<NCommander> I had gotten sidetracked by mono and then alpha 3 to land the headless branch
<ogra> i'll find out whats needed and we can do that offline
<janimo> NCommander, sure np
<NCommander> now can we get back on topic on Unity 2d Status?!
<ogra> NCommander, right, please do that with high prio now that you are done with mono (assuming you are)
<ogra> NCommander, if you would wait until getting an answer on the move request that would be easier
<NCommander> ogra: I'm not, and I don't have a local d-cd instance to test. You may be better off landing the code
<NCommander> ogra: I did wait, there wasn't a response either way.
<ogra> can everyone please move the remaining a3 items on theit blueprints
<ogra> *their
<janimo> can anyone see why this whiteboard is not parsed correctly? https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-arm-n-handle-core-boot-files-update
<ogra> we have 11 open items there
<janimo> all those WIs are not showing up in the graphs
<ogra> lets do that off meeting, to me it looks fine
<ogra> NCommander, can you please add the above action
<NCommander> [topic] Unity 2D Status
<MootBot> New Topic:  Unity 2D Status
<NCommander> [action] ogra + janimo to look at why WI don't appear on other-arm-n-handle-core-boot-files-update
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ogra + janimo to look at why WI don't appear on other-arm-n-handle-core-boot-files-update
 * ogra shakes head
<ogra> <ogra> action: everyone to check their WI status on the whiteboards that the right beta tag is set
<ogra> <ogra> NCommander, ^^
<NCommander> grumble
<ogra> jani and i dont need an action for that
<NCommander> [action] everyone to check their WI status on the whiteboards that the right beta tag is set
<MootBot> ACTION received:  everyone to check their WI status on the whiteboards that the right beta tag is set
<ogra> thanks
<ogra> move
<NCommander> ogra: I did
<ogra> premature again
<ogra> well
<ogra> it kind of works ...
<ogra> thats all status i have, many bugs open, upstream is working on them
<ogra> move
<NCommander> [topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, rsalveti)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Status (cooloney, rsalveti)
<ogra> very bad from what i grokked from the mail discussion
<rsalveti> for omap 3 one the master-next will get merged with 38-rc7 release
<ogra> seems .38 exploded with the last rebase
<rsalveti> now for omap 4 things are still bad
<rsalveti> the current blocker issue is the mmc crash
<rsalveti> as reported by cooloney
<ogra> didnt he also talk about build issues ?
<rsalveti> so this should be sorted this week, and probably merged at our ti-omap4-dev then
<ogra> or are these solved
<rsalveti> ogra: we got patches for that already
<ogra> ah, good
<ogra> seems i missed a mail
<ogra> or two
<rsalveti> but at least with current tests, it seems that it's kind of working well
<ogra> plan is to move to .38 as soon as these are solved
<rsalveti> yup
<ogra> which means also trhat we'll lose .35
<rsalveti> it'll be merged at ti-omap4-dev, then we'll request more testing
<rsalveti> once it's ok, we'll pull as the default kernel for omap4
<ogra> i was wondering if it would make sense to have an upload to canonical-arm-dev PPA
<ogra> of the final .35 branch
<ogra> so we have a fallback if .38 isnt usable at all during our work
<rsalveti> we could create a public ppa for it, if needed
<rsalveti> build at canonical-arm and then copy to the public one
<ogra> i just thought to make sure we dont get blocked by it
<ogra> seems to be not very rebase-safe to me atm
<ogra> so it might explode again next rebase
<GrueMaster> Well, if we are testing it on the side before making it default, we should catch most issues.
<rsalveti> well, at least 38 is almost final already
<rsalveti> GrueMaster: sure
<ogra> right, mainline is
<ogra> but the patches still look shaky
<rsalveti> and will be for a while
<ogra> right
<rsalveti> we just need to test before pushing
<rsalveti> then we should be ok
<rsalveti> GrueMaster can be our go/no-go
<GrueMaster> yep
<ogra> i dont want to overload him though ;)
<ogra> he is busy enough
<rsalveti> not a lot to test
<ogra> k
<ogra> then lets drop the PPA idea
<rsalveti> I don't expect a kernel update more than once a week
<NCommander> can I move on?
<GrueMaster> ogra: What say I make the call of how busy I am?
<rsalveti> any other question?
<ogra> you typed yep when i was still typing :)
<NCommander> QA Status (GrueMaster)
<NCommander> bah
<NCommander> paste failure
<NCommander> can I move on?
<rsalveti> you're having serious problems with your paste
<ogra> jep
<NCommander> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster)
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster)
<NCommander> rsalveti: I've been thold this is proper behavior
<rsalveti> hehe, then you're the issue
<ogra> fix your palms ?
<GrueMaster> Alpha 3 testing was brutal (again).  Made it through at the last minute.
<ogra> or your fingers :)
<ogra> GrueMaster, we werent the last ;)
<ogra> kubuntu was respun this morning
<rsalveti> and most important, we made it :-)
<ogra> yeah
<GrueMaster> It won't past muster.
<ogra> awesome job !!!
<ogra> GrueMaster, NCommander thanks for making it possible
<GrueMaster> I also spot tested kubuntu last night.  It has more serious problems.
<ogra> rsalveti, and thanls for the right suggestion at the right moment ;)
<ogra> GrueMaster, kubuntu x86/amd64 was respun
<rsalveti> ogra: haha :-)
<GrueMaster> Oh.
<ogra> not armel
<GrueMaster> Well, armel was also respun by NCommander at my request.
<ogra> oh, twice ?
<ogra> i only saw 03 and no 03.1 when i tested
<GrueMaster> Thought it may be also hung up by the same issue.  Turns out it has additional critical failure issues.
<GrueMaster> Timing.
<ogra> (or did you talk about kubuntu armel now)
<GrueMaster> Yes.
<ogra> ah, confusing :)
<GrueMaster> We announced we were respinning in #u-release.
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> i thought you talked about netbook
<ogra> (ubuntu)
<GrueMaster> It would be far easier to understand what I was talking about if there were less interuptions.  I haven't stopped talking about kubuntu.
<GrueMaster> At any rate, I have nothing constructive to add further.
<GrueMaster> NCommander: move on, please.
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
<NCommander> nothing new to report expect livecd-rootfs got a lobotomy to get a3 images out
<janimo> getting better
<NCommander> mono work still pending a3 release
<NCommander> janimo: got anything else or can I move?
<rsalveti> it should appear more gl/gles related bugs, now that more packages get updated
<janimo> move
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<rsalveti> for wrong usage or lack of proper detection
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<ogra> A3 released
<NCommander> We made A3. livecd-rootfs got a nasty hack due to webkit sucking
<ogra> nothing else to report for existing images
<ogra> NCommander, do you need any help with janis changes ?
<rsalveti> I'm building webkit with gcc-4.4 to see if it could be related with the toolchain
<NCommander> ogra: feel free to grab them and run with ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<NCommander> them
<NCommander> %$#W@!!~
<rsalveti> but webkit in general is completely broken
<NCommander> what I need is to take Xorg apart
<rsalveti> and gcc can't help on it
<ogra> so its an internal webik error ?
<ogra> thats bad
<ogra> especially if we cant blame the toolchain
<rsalveti> yup, we'll see
<janimo> rsalveti, , I saw PPA builds of webkit failed
<NCommander> rsalveti: I recommend you prepare the approicate sacarifies to the debugging gods
<rsalveti> janimo: that's fine, armel is still building
<rsalveti> I forgot that the ppa also builds for other arches
<ogra> yeah, who cares about exotic arches like x86 anyway
<rsalveti> yup :-)
<GrueMaster> I do when the build failures start spamming me.
<rsalveti> sorry about that :-)
<NCommander> we should have some sorta nice porting team to assign bugs to when x86 breaks since hardware is so scare :-)
<ogra> procmail ftw ;)
<ogra> NCommander, good idea ! propose that to davidm
<ogra> ;)
<ogra> so he can bring it up to the managers
<NCommander> [action] NCommander to draft and formalize x86 porting team proposal
<MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to draft and formalize x86 porting team proposal
 * ogra has nothing else 
<NCommander> */silly off*
<NCommander> [topic] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<ogra> i held a talk at UDD ...
<ogra> got some nice positive feedback and actually the hour was filled with questions (i only talked for 10min or so)
<ogra> seems there is good community interest in arm
<ogra> ..
<ogra> err UDW, sorry
<NCommander> ogra: watch your TLAs :-)
 * janimo waits for Daniel to post the daily summary links and I'll check out the transcript
<ogra> heh
<rsalveti> yeah, saw that, quite nice we had so many people interested on it
<NCommander> I'm probably going to be out the rest of the morning and possibly early afternoon
<NCommander> I got a grand total of 45 minutes of sleep
<NCommander> >.<;
<ogra> yeah, get some lseep
<janimo> lslepp
<NCommander> plan on it
<janimo> as in long sleep
<ogra> you well earned a break ;)
<NCommander> anyway
<NCommander> Anyting else
<NCommander> else
<NCommander> closingin the meeting in 5
<janimo> calendar is helpful, just got an email reminding me of this meeting
<ogra> nope
<NCommander> 4
<NCommander> 3
<NCommander> 2
<NCommander> 1
<ogra> janimo, fix your timezone ;)
<NCommander> @endmeeting
<NCommander> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:37.
<janimo> ogra, it is gmail actually
<ogra> fix your TZ setting there
<janimo> no timezonme settings are off by 30 minutes :)
<ogra> ah
<ogra> heh
<ogra> thats what you get living in the middle of a TZ
<NCommander> janimo: actually ..
<NCommander> India is off by 30 minutes
<ogra> it just tries to be precise
<janimo> well yes, and a few other regions in wide countries
<janimo> but not around here
<soren> there's a city somewhere that's off by 20 minutes, iirc.
<NCommander> anyway
<NCommander> I'm gone
<charlie-tca> anyone here for the Xubuntu meeting?
<Unit193> Yeah
<mr_pouit> o/
<charlie-tca> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 13:01. The chair is charlie-tca.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<charlie-tca> If I go away, just keep going
<highvoltage> good afternoon charlie-tca
<charlie-tca> Welcome to the weekly Xubuntu Community Meeting
<charlie-tca> Hello, highvoltage
<charlie-tca> The full meeting agenda is available at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Old business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Old business
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu marketing plans
<charlie-tca> any word on these yet?
<charlie-tca> ochosi and knome will put together some logo designs to be discussed as the menu icon
<charlie-tca> running out of time for this, aren't we, mr_pouit
<charlie-tca> we need someone to update the slideshows displayed during the installation, they are badly outdated (they were made for karmic or lucid)
<BillyBob> i have a small opinion to make; xubuntu is trying to fit into the same niche as ubuntu, maybe we need to find a different one?
<charlie-tca> I think we can close this one, knome and ochosi got a start on it
<mr_pouit> we have 3 weeks before UI freezen so it might be ok
<mr_pouit> *freeze
<charlie-tca> Thanks, mr_pouit
<BillyBob> i could do that if u want
<charlie-tca> BillyBob: that would fit better in "Any other business"
<charlie-tca> do which one?
<BillyBob> soz, first time
<charlie-tca> marketing plans?
<beardygnome> hi all, stuck at work, so I'm going to have to skip this meeting. will catch up on the minutes when they are published.
<charlie-tca> Thanks for letting us know, beardygnome
<charlie-tca> BillyBob: which one do you think you could help with?
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Team updates
<MootBot> New Topic:  Team updates
<BillyBob> charlie-tca: the slideshow, and i think my mate and i could get it onto the website too
<charlie-tca> Slideshow should be about done now. I believe ochosi is going to supply some new snapshots of the greybird theme to finish it up
<charlie-tca> But, by all mean, talk to knome or ochosi about it and see if they can use some help?
<BillyBob> OK, have you got someone to put it on website? we could do that
<beardygnome> charlie-tca: np
<charlie-tca> The website is being redone in wordpress, I think that is part of the reworking.
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Packaging & Development
<MootBot> New Topic:  Packaging & Development
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: updates?
<mr_pouit> Nothing much this week, it was rather calm because of the alpha freeze
<mr_pouit> * Updated xubuntu-default-settings/xubuntu-meta for the changes decided last meeting.
<mr_pouit> * Fixed xfce4-indicator-plugin to support changing volume on scroll events with indicator-sound.
<mr_pouit> * Uploaded update-manager patch from last week (Bug #530161).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 530161 in update-manager "Restart is not supported if not using gnome session manager (affects XFCE & LXDE)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/530161
<mr_pouit> That's all.
<charlie-tca> Calm is good for a change
<charlie-tca> I saw an indicator-sound-??? crash a few times in testing, was that the one abouve?
<mr_pouit> yeah, it's this indicator in the panel
<charlie-tca> Great!
<charlie-tca> the other one causing concern was the update-manager crashing on first update after installing.
<charlie-tca> that is being looked at by Ubuntu devs
<charlie-tca> Any questions for mr_pouit ?
<charlie-tca> Thank you, mr_pouit. Your work is greatly appreciated!
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Bug Triage & Testing
<MootBot> New Topic:  Bug Triage & Testing
<charlie-tca> Not much on bugs this week, but we did test the ISO images for Natty Alpha3.
<charlie-tca> Testing went pretty good this time around, however, wubi is broken
<charlie-tca> Any questions?
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Website & Marketing
<MootBot> New Topic:  Website & Marketing
<charlie-tca> Any updates from knome or pleia2 ?
<charlie-tca> hm, it is a bad day for freenode today.
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Artwork
<MootBot> New Topic:  Artwork
<BillyBob> are you at all interested in photographs for some desktop wallpapers?
<charlie-tca> The new themes and layouts are now in alpha3. Greybird is a really neat theme!
 * mvo has fixed the u-m issue in bzr
<charlie-tca> yes, they can be submitted, but all the wallpaper will be submitted through the community artwork project at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Specs/0007_Xubuntu_Natty_Wallpaper
<BillyBob> photos?
<BillyBob> right, i'll upload them then
<charlie-tca> photos will be considered, as they as they meet the specs
<charlie-tca> The upload site is http://www.flickr.com/groups/uawt-7/
<charlie-tca> thank you, mvo
<charlie-tca> any other questions on artwork?
<charlie-tca> I see ochosi made it, any news on
<charlie-tca> # ochosi and knome will put together some logo designs to be discussed as the menu icon
<ochosi> yeah, sry, didn't make it with the menu icon
<ochosi> was busy with other stuff
<ochosi> xfwm4 theme is finished
<ochosi> so basically the greybird theme is pretty final
<charlie-tca> Okay, we got about three weeks to freeze
<charlie-tca> the greybird theme is fantastic!
<ochosi> so with greybird we're basically in a bugfix phase
<charlie-tca> Next week we should be reviewing wallpapers
<ochosi> yeah, feedback is pretty good
<ochosi> mhm
<ochosi> maybe discuss them a bit before the meeting even
<charlie-tca> sure.
<ochosi> knome and me did a new gmusicbrowser icon for xubuntu
<ochosi> it's pretty nice :)
 * ochosi digs up the link
<charlie-tca> Is it the one in the alpha3?
<ochosi> no, up to now it was monochrome
 * micahg is back
<ochosi> which was problematic
<ochosi> you can see it here: https://github.com/shimmerproject/gmusicbrowser/blob/master/pix/gmusicbrowser.png
<ochosi> i guess that's about it from my side
<charlie-tca> WoW! I like that one a lot
<ochosi> (the new icon also created good feedback by the way)
<ochosi> thanks :)
<charlie-tca> that does give a real nice idea of what the app does
<ochosi> it's designed to be kinda generic, so it would give a good idea of the function
<ochosi> exactly
<charlie-tca> Anything for artwork?
<ochosi> nope, i'm done )
<charlie-tca> else, that is?
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Announcements
<MootBot> New Topic:  Announcements
<ochosi> sry, g2g again
<charlie-tca> Natty Narwhal Alpha3 released today!
<charlie-tca> Thanks, ochosi
<ochosi> i'll read the log :)
<ochosi> np
<ochosi> ->
<charlie-tca> Glad for your input
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Any Other Business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any Other Business
<micahg> did we get gmusicbrowser in the seed for alpha3
<micahg> or are we waiting on the new artwork?
<charlie-tca> Next meeting is on March 10, same place, 19:00 UTC
<charlie-tca> micahg: as far as I know, it is there
<charlie-tca> I know it was on the panel, and started with the launcher
<charlie-tca> This was brought up earlier, and deserves an answer:
<charlie-tca> <BillyBob> i have a small opinion to make; xubuntu is trying to fit into the same niche as ubuntu, maybe we need to find a different one?
 * micahg doesn't think so
<micahg> xubuntu is a lighter alternative to ubuntu, not lightest though
<charlie-tca> Ubuntu with Unity and Gnome has always been aimed at the the new user coming from windows
<charlie-tca> We have not aimed at the new user, intentionally.
<charlie-tca> We are looking more at the user with at least some experience
<BillyBob> OK, but xfce has almost the same configuration of programs (so far as i know) as GNOME, why change?
<charlie-tca> And, as micahg just stated, Xubuntu is a lighter alternative
<Sysi> we're hitting far from gnome3 and kde with xfce 4.8
<charlie-tca> um, BillyBob, I think you should look again
<charlie-tca> no open office/libreoffice
<charlie-tca> no rythmbox/banshee
<charlie-tca> no unity/compiz
<Sysi> browser is same, shortly said
<micahg> yes, and lighter default apps
<BillyBob> OK, i'm just a noob i guess
<micahg> I think the only default shared with Ubuntu is Firefox
<BillyBob> but if there was like a killer reason to change, maybe more people would?
<charlie-tca> There are many differences, even though we do use some of the gnome applications
<Sysi> we could market xubuntu to old gnome users that don't like unity
<Sysi> natty-time
<charlie-tca> yes, that would be good, also to those experienced users who want more configurability
<charlie-tca> Many things can be changed in Xubuntu that are harder to change in Ubuntu
<BillyBob> maybe if we marketed with that, customisability?
<BillyBob> forgive me if u do
<charlie-tca> We need help with the marketing part of things
<BillyBob> have you thought about removing the rat from the logo, because rats are sneaky and annoying, and pests?
<maco> s/rat/mouse/
<BillyBob> maco: what about a mouse?
<Sysi> it's xfce's mouse
<BillyBob> oh, a mouse!
<charlie-tca> BillyBob: here is the start to our Marketing plans - feel free to add to it
<charlie-tca> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Marketing
<charlie-tca> The mouse is the Xfce logo
<charlie-tca> just as the footprint is the gnome logo
<BillyBob> but maybe we don't have to use it, the ubuntu logo doesn't have a foot
<charlie-tca> ideas accepted
<charlie-tca> Please add them to the marketing page
<PsynoKhi0> ubuntu now has pretty much its own DE though :)
<PsynoKhi0> well... own shell rather
<Unit193> It's nice to have the minimize/maximize/close buttons on the top right
<charlie-tca> Yes, even though the underlying stuff is gnome, they are putting more and more of their own into Ubuntu
<charlie-tca> heh, gnome3 does away with minimize and maximize buttons
<BillyBob> mmm, true
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu gives the user the option to use the buttons or hide them all
<charlie-tca> There's that configurability again, huh?
<BillyBob> before i go, perhaps a freash new icon theme, like the 'breathe' one, the xfce one looks kinda old
<charlie-tca> too late for this cycle
<Sysi> discuss with knome about that :P
<charlie-tca> Anything else to discuss
<charlie-tca> knome does not run things, he can make suggestions too
<charlie-tca> the icons are there for Natty, already
<charlie-tca> going....
<charlie-tca> going 2.....
<PsynoKhi0> then again, having the ubuntu logo
<charlie-tca> Thanks for participating in this meeting!
<charlie-tca> huh? what "having the ubuntu logo"?
<charlie-tca> where is that?
<charlie-tca> Of course, we walk a fine line, being a separate distribution but officially supported by Ubuntu
<PsynoKhi0> having the ubuntu logo instead of the xfce one would brand xubuntu as a distro with stronger tie with ubuntu, instead of strong tie with xfce
<charlie-tca> That would be a wrong suggestion. We really do have a strong tie with Xfce
<charlie-tca> since that is the desktop environment we use.
<charlie-tca> We could consider a logo that shows both, again, as we had in the past.
<PsynoKhi0> was wondering where this one went :)
<charlie-tca> but we will not confuse the user by using the Ubuntu logo. That does designate Ubuntu, a different distribution.
<PsynoKhi0> fair point
<charlie-tca> Development happens in #xubuntu-devel, support happens in #xubuntu
<Unit193> How about the Ubuntu logo with the mouse in the middle?
<charlie-tca> um, it would be better to use a similar but different design then the Ubuntu logo.
<Sysi> getting complicated for small sizes
<charlie-tca> yeah, we tried to get the mouse in the wheel, it did not work well
<charlie-tca> WE need one that designates lightweight, tied to ubuntu, tied to Xfce, with great configurability!
<PsynoKhi0> does it really have to show the entire logo? my only gripe about natty alpha is that the menu button is really small
<charlie-tca> a few designs to look at would be nice
<charlie-tca> We are trying to get some new designs drawn up
<charlie-tca> The fact that it is the logo does not mean it has to be tiny
<PsynoKhi0> let me upload a pic real quick
<charlie-tca> better to do a couple of pictures, and give us a chance to see them. We will not make a decision today, anyway.
<PsynoKhi0> kk
<charlie-tca> Hopefully, we will have logos to look at next week, right?
<charlie-tca> PsynoKhi0 and ochosi and maybe knome will get some together for us?
<PsynoKhi0> can give it a try
<charlie-tca> PsynoKhi0: feel free to tell us in #xubuntu-devel any links to see a preview of it, okay?
<PsynoKhi0> sure thing
<charlie-tca> I would like to end this meeting, if we can?
<charlie-tca> Thanks again for participating. It is great to see interest being generated!
<charlie-tca> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:55.
 * charlie-tca has a two year old wanting attention too
<Sysi> aww
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-03-04
<zul> hi
<skaet_> hi zul
<victorp> o/
<smb> \o
 * marjo waves
 * jdstrand_ waves
 * joshuahoover waves
 * oubiwann waves
<skaet_> coolio.... quorum has gathered.  :)
<skaet_> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is skaet_.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<pitti> o/
<skaet_> [Topic] Natty overview - skaet_
<skaet_> Reminder:   please use ".." on separate line when you've finished typing.   If someone wants to comment during the updates, please "o/", so we know to wait.
<skaet_> .
<skaet_> Agenda is at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2011-03-04
<skaet_> Its currently the bugs that were still open from last week, as the new ones haven't been added yet.  I'll be starting off the tracking agenda (for 2011-03-11 meeting) with this week's A3 release discovered (and others) bugs in it on next monday/tuesday.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Natty overview - skaet_
<skaet_> .
<skaet_> Milestoned bugs for beta can be found:
<skaet_> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.milestone=33574.
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.milestone=33574.
<skaet_> Bugs targetted for this release can be found:
<skaet_> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+bugs
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+bugs
<skaet_> I'll be working with the individual team leads and managers next week to look at the importance of the high and critical bugs open and make sure they're accurate.
<skaet_> .
<skaet_> Upcoming Significant Dates:
<skaet_> User Interface Freeze and Beta Freeze is March 24th (at 2300 UTC  ;) )
<skaet_> Beta 1 Release is March 31st.
<skaet_> questions?
<skaet_> ..
<zul> nope
<skaet_> ... and wanted to add a big THANK YOU to everyone who contributed to getting A3 out last week!
<skaet_> cool, lets head into the round table then.
<skaet_> [Topic] QA team update - marjo
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA team update - marjo
<marjo> hi folks
<marjo> lots of topics today
<marjo>  * Natty Alpha 3 Work Items
<marjo>  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-platform-qa-natty-alpha-3.html
<marjo>  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardware-kernel-n-bug-handling
<marjo>  bdmurray 100% complete.
<marjo>  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-qa-n-testing-different-architectures
<marjo>   [jibel] cleanup subscribers list
<marjo>  Postponed to Beta-1; blocked on confirmation that to build an image, at least a subscriber is needed and that subscriber is committed to test the image.
<marjo>  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/cloud-server-n-uec-qa
<marjo>  Marking completed Alpha3 tests. Other work items postponed due to lack of working UEC tools after Alpha 2.
<marjo>  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntutheproject-server-n-qa
<marjo>  Marking completed Alpha3 tests.
<marjo>  * Alpha 3 Test Report
<marjo>  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/ReleaseReports/NattyAlpha3TestReport
<marjo>  Summary
<marjo> Test Coverage
<marjo> 49 contributors have reported 344 results and covered 223 testcases
<marjo>     * Image Coverage : 100.00% (58/58)
<marjo>     * Mandatory Test Cases : 100.00% (187/187)
<marjo>     * Run Once Test Cases : 81.82% (36/44)
<marjo>     * Overall : 96.54% (223/231)
<marjo> Failures summary
<marjo> 71 bugs have been reported affecting a total of 74 test cases.
<marjo> 35 Tests failed.
<marjo>     * Failure Rate: 15.69% (35/223)
<marjo> Bug Tasks Importance
<marjo>     * Critical : 2 (1 closed)
<marjo>     * High : 23 (7 closed)
<marjo>     * Medium : 14 (2 closed)
<marjo>     * Low : 8 (3 closed)
<marjo>     * Wishlist : 1 (1 closed)
<marjo>     * Undecided : 46 (6 closed)
<marjo> Thank you to jibel, smoser, hggdh, pedro_, charlie-tca, kidsodateless, highvoltage, marjo, brendand, ricsipontaz, PatrickDK, patrickmw, PaoloRotolo, nobuto, Kamusin, valix, primes2h, roadmr, pitti, jamiedmattingly, RoAkSoAx, jamespage, monkeylibre, xdatap1, Fly82, Daviey, homitsu and ogra for testing the ISOs.
<marjo>  QA Dashboard
<marjo>  http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/qadashboard/qadashboard.html
<marjo> Note unity and linux are top two packages in both the "Last Day" and "Last 7 Days" metrics.
<marjo>  bug 694596 went from Fix Released to Triaged
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 694596 in unity (Ubuntu Natty) "unity not working on rotated displays" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/694596
<marjo>  * Testing status:
<marjo>  Desktop Automated Testing results
<marjo> http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/desktop-testing/natty/
<marjo> Number of 2D tests: 310
<marjo> Number of Unity tests: 286
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/desktop-testing/natty/
<marjo> List of bugs found is at the bottom of page.
<marjo>  Server Automated Testing results
<marjo>  http://204.236.234.12/view/ISO-server-Natty/?
<marjo>  1 failure under investigation by hggdh.
<marjo>   Automatic Upgrade Testing
<marjo>   http://people.canonical.com/~mvo/automatic-upgrade-testing/current/
<marjo> per mvo,
<marjo>  Ran out of diskspace again. There is an RT ticket pending for a bigger disk and it has been escalated. mvo will remove a few images temporarily or comment out an upgrade - in progress
<marjo> ..
<skaet_> Thanks marjo!    and thank you to all the testers who helped us solidify A3!
<skaet_> lots of good data in there,  and I'll get with you early next week with my questions on the data.   :)
<skaet_> anyone else?
<marjo> skaet_ ack
<skaet_> [Topic] Hardware Certification team update - victorp
<MootBot> New Topic:  Hardware Certification team update - victorp
 * skaet_ did see a hand earlier... ;)
<skaet_> victorp?
<skaet_> ok,  I guess we'll come back to him later...
<skaet_> [Topic] Security team update - jdstrand
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security team update - jdstrand
<skaet_> jdstrand_,  ^^ ?
 * skaet_ wonders if jdstrand_ is talking to victorp ;)    
<skaet_> moving on...
<skaet_> [Topic] Kernel team update - apw (or smb?)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel team update - apw (or smb?)
 * smb hopes to be still in the same universe...
<smb> Overall status is reported at the first link below.
<smb> Burn down for the release milestone is at the second link below.
<smb> Burn down for the cycle is at the third link:
<smb> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<smb> [LINK]
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<smb> http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-kernel-team-natty-alpha-2.html
<MootBot> LINK received:
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-kernel-team-natty-alpha-2.html
<smb> [LINK]
<smb> http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-kernel-team.svg
<smb> Of the bugs called out on the agenda against the kernel, status is as below:
<smb> #344878 ecryptfs long filename are not likely to make natty-alpha-2 and moves
<MootBot> LINK received:
<smb>         out, we will need to make a decision on disabling this shortly;
<smb> #539467 SATA alpm is now disabled in userspace, upstream discussions are
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-kernel-team.svg
<smb>         ongoing;
<smb> #542660 (black screen issue) sounds like being back or still there.
<smb> #625364 expected to be fixed in next kernel
<smb> #630748 remains waiting on Intel for updated wireless firmware. At least
<smb>         improving.
<smb> #636091 still waits testing by the reporter; and
<smb> #702090 Looks to be and interaction with vesafb and is with upstream. Most
<smb>         recent feedback suggest that something additional is required to
<smb>         fix this finally.
<smb> #712075 partial fix but needs more
<smb> #717114 has been bisected down to one patch. not sure about upstream discussion
<smb> The other bugs seem to be non-kernel packages, status is recorded on our status
<smb> page where available (first link above).
<smb> Current kernel 2.6.38-5.32 is based on v2.6.32-rc6. The next pending kernel is
<smb> currently based on 2.6.38-rc7 but seems to introduce an i915 problem/regression:
<smb> #728672 compiz crashed with SIGSEGV in intel_miptree_image_copy()
<smb> ..
<bladernr> Hi, victorp says he's having connection issues and will be here shortly
<smb> ..
<skaet_> thanks smb!
<victorp_> hi
<victorp_> did I miss something, technical problems
<skaet_> thanks bladernr for the heads up on victorp
<skaet_> smb, are you going to post 2.6.38-rc7,  or wait until the issue is resolved?
<smb> skaet_, apw will look into that. He knows bout the issue and will check before he uploads
<smb> There seems to be a patch identified that caused the issue
<smb> but I guess wait is the answer.
<smb> ..
 * smb wonders whether the network has split
 * ogra gets the glue
<smb> ogra, At least this part of the world is still around. :)
<ogra> heh, yeah
<ogra> eurochat :)
 * pitti still patiently listening
 * victorp is waiting too
 * jdstrand is waiting
<oubiwann> ogra: euro and Colorado :-)
<ogra> hehe
<ogra> oh my
<smb> another case for the major crime squad
<skat> fun with the IRc server today looks like...
<skat> can I see a show of hands for who's still on?
<smb> skat, So I guess you did not get my response
<smb> \o
<skat> smb, nope
<ogra> o/
<smb> <smb> skaet_, apw will look into that. He knows bout the issue and will check before he uploads
<smb> <smb> There seems to be a patch identified that caused the issue
<smb> <smb> but I guess wait is the answer.
<smb> ..
<skat> thanks smb
<skat> anyone else have questions for smb?
<skat> is cjwatson or someone from foundations around?
<skat> how about Daviey or zul?
<zul> hi
<zul> Hi
<zul> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
<zul> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/natty/canonical-server.svg
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/natty/canonical-server.svg
 * victorp is still here but needing to leave soon
 * skat will call on victorp next...
<zul> skat: Daviey and I are gonig to be  alternating
<pitti> zul: (for the record: WI tracker moved to ~platform some half year ago)
<cjwatson> I'm here
<zul> pitti: ill update my links then
<skat> cjwatson, cool,  will call on you after victorp,  IRC is being problematic today
<skat> zul,  re alternating,  ack.  just let me know at the start.
<zul> ack
 * ogra wonders if we whould just all send our status in by mail
<skat> any questions for zul?
<ogra> *should
<skat> ogra, lets discuss at end.
<pitti> ogra: we already have wiki pages
<ogra> skat, well, i meant instead of waiting for IRc to settle
<skat> [Topic] Hardware Certification team update -  victorp
<victorp> yeay!
<victorp> As usual, the report for this week's testing is available at:
<victorp> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~hwcert/hw-testing/current
<victorp> The coverage this week was very good, with most of the system reporting
<victorp> results.
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~hwcert/hw-testing/current
<victorp> Three systems didn't report back due to outstanding bugs and/or new bugs:
<victorp> Outstanding bugs:
<victorp> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/708286
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/708286
<victorp> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/711378
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 708286 in linux (Ubuntu) "Resume after suspend not working - Toshiba Tecra R700" [Undecided,New]
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/711378
<victorp> New bug:
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 711378 in compiz (Ubuntu Natty) "after compiz crashed, gnome-panel isn't mapped again" [High,Triaged]
<victorp> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/728772
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/728772
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 728772 in linux (Ubuntu) "e1000e driver fails to establish link (Intel 82578DM) " [Undecided,Confirmed]
<victorp> Other five systems didn't report results or failed the installation, and
<victorp> we are investigating those now.
<victorp> ...
<skat> Thanks victorp!
<skat> Are there any boot time results available for Natty yet?
<victorp> yes some
<skat> how does it look?   about the same as maverick, or will there need to be some focus there?
<victorp> http://people.canonical.com/~hwcert/boot-metrics/natty/20110302/
<victorp> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~hwcert/boot-metrics/maverick/20101007/
<victorp> that is the baseline from maverick
<victorp> the idea is that we will create the results and upload them to people.canonical.com
<victorp> and QA (marjo) will review them for issues and so on
<victorp> but the natty ones are just hot of the press
<skat> ok,  thanks!  :)  will dig into them a bit offline.
<victorp> skat, does that answer your question?
<skat> yup.  :)
<skat> anyone else have questions?
<skat> [Topic] Foundations team update - cjwatson
<cjwatson> Hi
<cjwatson> http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-foundations.html
<cjwatson> Most remaining items are polish on top of existing features now.
<cjwatson> Feature-related work over the last week or so:
<cjwatson>  - biosdevname packaged and integrated into installer, providing optional stable network device naming
<cjwatson>  - automatic partitioner redesign
<cjwatson>  - package upgrade/reinstall support when installing over existing partition
<cjwatson>  - software-center weblive prototype
<cjwatson>  - Upstart 0.9.0, with several major features; tests, docs, and fixes still needed; check-config/visualisation likely to land soon
<cjwatson>  - various alpha-3-blocking fixes in light of multiarch dpkg
<cjwatson> Rebuild test output follows, and could use attention from any developers with spare cycles:
<cjwatson>   http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20110125-natty.html
<cjwatson> I've updated the agenda with bug changes.
<cjwatson> ..
<cjwatson> (oh, I moved several things over to other teams when it seemed more appropriate)
<skat> cjwatson,  thanks!    moving over to other teams if appropriate is welcome.
<skat> will look on the agenda for the latest details.
<skat> others should feel free to put the bug status on the agenda directly, too.
<cjwatson> I'm curious to hear from Linaro how far we intend to go with multiarch dpkg this cycle
<cjwatson> I know there are some further proposed changes in the db layout
<skat> JamieBennett, ^^ ??
<cjwatson> (the ones I've heard would actually simplify things)
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~hwcert/boot-metrics/natty/20110302/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~hwcert/boot-metrics/maverick/20101007/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-foundations.html
<skat> [ACTION] skaet to follow up with JamieBennett / slangasek and get some details about multiarch dpkg for this cycle
<skat> if no other questions,  will move on....
<skat> [Topic] Desktop team update - pitti
<pitti> Blueprint implementation:
<pitti>  * On track for entire cycle
<pitti>  * Alpha-3: had some stragglers, moved to beta-1
<pitti>  * beta-1: 17 WIs for our team, 43 for deskop-ish specs which are done by other people
<pitti> General status:
<pitti>  * Squeezed new unity 3.6.0 into Alpha-3, which brought tons of stability fixes and actually usable dash/applications/files
<pitti>  * No new features aside from Unity. Most people are doing bug fixing now.
<pitti>  * Had to kill 2 langpacks (~ 20 MB) due to new dpkg-repack pulling in dpkg-dev, build-essential, g++. Fixed now, and the extra libreoffice-style-tango will be dropped as well (2.8 MB)
<pitti>  * Firefox translations in langpacks are still broken; currently WIP to bring them back, ETA next week
<pitti> RC bugs:
<pitti>  * Firefox global menu bar support finally ack'ed by upstream, in natty now
<pitti>  * Details of other bugs at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus#rcbugs
<pitti> ..
<skat> Thanks pitti!
<skat> your work item task list tracking is awesome!
<skat> any other questions?
<skat> [Topic] Ubuntu One Team - joshuahoover
<pitti> skat: rickspencer3 taught me how to make proper whip cracking noises :)
<joshuahoover> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/NattyReleaseStatus
<joshuahoover> details on where we're at with blueprints and releases are in the link above
<joshuahoover> we had to file a freeze exception for bindwood (bookmarks sync) so that it works right with firefox 4...updated package should be landing next week: bug #648587
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 648587 in Bindwood "[FFE] bindwood is incompatible with Firefox 4" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/648587
 * jdstrand thinks he got skipped due to the netsplit, but is available
<joshuahoover> discovered we have a new package for universe that we'd like to still get in for natty, bug #729117 - this is to make it easier for devs to access couchdb data on u1 servers
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 729117 in Ubuntu "[FFE] Add ubuntuone-couch to universe " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/729117
<joshuahoover> the rest of the work is on bugs, especially those related to the ui or strings...i'm working on making sure all our natty bugs are targeted and marked properly as most are against our upstream projects right now
<joshuahoover> and that's it for this week for u1 - questions?
<joshuahoover> ..
 * skat will call on jdstrand after,  yeah, didn't see you when asked earlier
<skat> thanks joshuahoover!
<skat> appreciate the heads up on the FFE coming in.
<skat> any one else?
<skat> [Topic] Security team update - jdstrand
<jdstrand> hi! :)
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<jdstrand> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-security.html
<jdstrand> With the exception of working with various people on getting bug #727478 fixed for people upgrading from maverick, there is not a lot to report. Our team focused primarily on stable release updates.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 727478 in apparmor (Ubuntu Natty) "mysql upgrade hang at 'installing new version of config file /etc/init/mysql.conf' during upgrade from 10.10 to 11.04" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/727478
<jdstrand> We have no remaining milestoned features or bugs for beta. We are below the trend line on work items overall. There are some items for micah that aren't related to the security team, and we are getting those addressed so they don't show up on our team reports.
<jdstrand> I would like to bring bug #728434 up here. I have marked it 'Critical' because the security team won't be able to properly prepare security updates for packages that have a dependency on dbus unless this is fixed.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 728434 in dbus (Ubuntu Natty) "[natty] dbus fails to install in a schroot" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/728434
<jdstrand> ..
<skat> jdstrand, thanks!    will keep an eye on 728434 then.
<skat> any questions?
<skat> [Topic] Kubuntu Team update - Riddell
 * skat see's he's marked away though... so will move on.
<skat> [Topic] Desktop Experience Team Update - dbarth
<dbarth> hi
<skat> hi
<dbarth> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/NattyReleaseStatus as usual
<dbarth> so this week we made a last release of unity for a3
<dbarth> and were allowed to land a couple of late features as well; thanks to all those involved
<dbarth> Unity 3.6 released, including 34 new features or bug fixes: https://launchpad.net/unity/+milestone/3.6
<dbarth> compiz decorator crashers are still a problem we haven't been able to fix
<dbarth> but the general trend is looking better: http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/unity-stats/
<dbarth> (from the report)
<dbarth> i've reviewed the list of bugs on the agenda today, but i'm afraid that most of them haven't seen an update yet (after the frantic release at the beginning of the week)
<dbarth> we've worked on identifying the missing bits that we'd like to get FFEs for
<dbarth> here is the list:
<dbarth> datetime (already accepted)
<dbarth> compiz grab handles (accepted)
<dbarth> ALT-F2
<dbarth> places a11y
<dbarth> places scrollbar (njpatel: itâs too late to do this)
<dbarth> compiz dialog style
<dbarth> overlay scrollbar
<dbarth> multi-touch support in Unity (but it's stacked on MT itself)
<dbarth> compiz mandatory plugins (does that need an FFE?)
<dbarth> in particular, places a11y has been considered for being postponed
<dbarth> but rickspencer3 and Jason brought me back to reason: we'll try a bit to land that
<dbarth> but will be cautious not to touch too many parts of the underlying infrastructure to limit the imapct on what's been released and works right now
<dbarth> ie, if we identify a11y gaps that are too "invasive" we may postpone
<oubiwann> also, for touch FFEs: libgrip, gesture enabled eog and evince (3 total)
<oubiwann> touch has one FFE that's been accepted (mtview)
<dbarth> luke (themuso) is reviewing how much unity could still be a usable interface without that; or rather which part of places we should focus on to make it work, without touching risky parts
<dbarth> this is ongoing
<dbarth> 34 bugs or features in the last release; some stats that show that our efforts on quality start to pay: http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/unity-stats/
<dbarth> qa is now essentially triaging and bug fixing with others; tooling efforts are on hold waiting for some hw cert lab runs to assess whether it's worth finishing for the cycle
<dbarth> ...
<skat> dbarth thanks!   appreciate the head's up on the FFEs will work with you offline to ease them all in and get a feel for when they are expected to land.  Please feel free to update the agenda itself with the status of the current bugs when you are able to assess them.
<marjo_> o/
<dbarth> will do
<skat> marjo go
<marjo_> dbarth: another indicator would be when unity no longer shows up in top 5 packages at: http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/qadashboard/qadashboard.html
<marjo_> ..
<skat> heh,  indeed.
<dbarth> marjo_: right, and that's a welcome change; thanks ;)
<marjo_> dbarth: looking forward to it!
<dbarth> forgot to mention the focus for next week: https://launchpad.net/unity/+milestone/3.6.2
<dbarth> other questions?
 * skat looks around...
<skat> [Topic] ARM team update - ogra
<ogra> Status is at:
<ogra> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARMTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<ogra> ..
<ogra> Summary:
<ogra>  * Bug 705689 is still waiting for a gcc upload, the fix was committed in the linaro tree.
<ogra>  * OMAP4 TI kernel is in its last test phase for the switch from .35 to .38, a PPA binary kernel is being tested right now, switch to the new tree will happen asap.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 705689 in gcc-4.5 (Ubuntu Natty) "Qt applications crash with segfault error on armel when Qt is built with gcc 4.5 on natty" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/705689
<ogra>  * Bug 727688 FFE for metacity is needed for unity-2d functionality
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 727688 in metacity (Ubuntu) "FFe request: Adding an auto-maximize option to Metacity" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/727688
<ogra>  * Several bugs with the first boot tool for preinstalled images (jasper) showed up during alpha testing, fixes are being worked on.
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARMTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<ogra>  * Mono ARM SMP fix: progress is blocked due to Bug: 721531
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 721531 in gcc-4.5 (Ubuntu Natty) "[armel] gcc computes wrong address for main() at build time" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/721531
<ogra>  * ARM specific FTBFS list is shrinking :)
<ogra> ..
<ogra> Image status:
<ogra>  * A3 was released
<ogra> Specs:
<ogra> Entire status: http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel.html
<ogra> Milestone: http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel-ubuntu-11.04-beta-1.html
<ogra> ..
<ogra> Serious Bugs:
<ogra> bug 728211
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 728211 in webkit (Ubuntu) "webkit crashes with SIGSEGV on ARM" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/728211
<ogra> bug 619981
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 619981 in mono (Ubuntu Natty) "mono apps crash on omap4 due to no smp support for armel" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/619981
<ogra> bug 721531
<ogra> ..
<skat> Thanks ogra!   re: OMAP4 - cool!   when should we expect to see the churn?
<ogra> next week i hope, GrueMaster is still testing afaik
<ogra> as soon as he gives his go the kernel team will switch
<ogra> ..
<skat> ogra sounds good.
<skat> any other questions?
<skat> [Topic] MOTU team update - ScottK
<ScottK> Nothing significant to report.
<ScottK> ..
<skat> [Topic] Linaro update - JamieBennett
<JamieBennett> o/
<JamieBennett> A3 was released yesterday
<JamieBennett> with support for a total of 10 boards
<JamieBennett> We will have a new kernel as soon as panda board display issues are sorted
<JamieBennett> and the multiarch stuff landed
<ScottK> skat: I can give a Kubuntu report after Linaro is done if you want.
<JamieBennett> initial bits are there but more work is needed to get it completely working
<ogra> panda display should be half way sorted atm
<JamieBennett> I don't know the exact details of what else is planned but slangasek informs me it will be finished this cycle
<ogra> (DVI works afaik)
<JamieBennett> as for that we are plodding along nicely
<skat> ScottK,  that would be great.   will circle back.
<JamieBennett> ..
<JamieBennett> ogra: right, our kernel disables the display at the moment
<ogra> ah
<ogra> ..
<skat> JamieBennett, Thanks!   Do you have any details on the dpkg multiarch plans for cjwatson?
<cjwatson> sounds like not, don't worry, I'll catch up with Steve on the details at some point, it was just curiosity
<JamieBennett> skat: I saw the comment, as above, I don't know the exact details but I can find out
<skat> thanks cjwatson, JamieBennett.  offline it is.
<skat> [Topic] Kubuntu Team update - ScottK
<ScottK> The biggest issues at the moment are Bug #705689 and related to Bug 673085
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 705689 in gcc-4.5 (Ubuntu Natty) "Qt applications crash with segfault error on armel when Qt is built with gcc 4.5 on natty" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/705689
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 673085 in qt4-x11 (Ubuntu) "Qt/KDE fails to build on ARM without implicit-it=thumb" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/673085
<ScottK> There's a test gcc fix in the toolchain PPA we need to investigate.
<ScottK> Qt 4.7.2 was uploaded yesterday.
<ScottK> KDE SC 4.6.1 is being uploaded today.
<ogra> \o/ QT 4.7.2
<ScottK> The kernel for n900 is finally built and waiting in binary New.
<ScottK> (that's for the Kubuntu Mobile tech preview)
<ScottK> ..
<skat> Thanks ScottK!
<skat> will keep an ey on those 2 bugs.    Wondiering how this will interact with  the new toolchain doko's landing.
<ScottK> The gcc fix is part of the updated toolchain.
<skat> excellent.
<skat> any other questions?
<ScottK> We're building KDE 4.6.1and Qt with gcc4.4 for the moment.
<skat> ok,  switching over to gcc 4.5 after the fixed version lands, or staying with 4.4 for the release?
<ScottK> ogra: It's Qt.  QT is something completely different.
<ScottK> skat: 4.5 after it's fixed.
 * ogra shrugs
<skat> thanks!
<skat> [Topic] any other kudos/comments/questions?
<skat> Sorry about the IRC connection this time.   I'll be scrubbing the IRC logs to make sure they match up with what I was seeing, and post a detailed version with the agenda as minutes, if not.
<skat> [ACTION] skaet to scrub the logs carefully for the minutes and post with the agenda
<skat> anyone else?
<skat> Thanks everyone for your patience today.
<skat> #endmeeting
<ogra> thanks skat
<skat> I'm probably going to need to completely log out and come back in properly as skaet_, to get this meeting to end.    It won't let me change to that nick.   sigh.
<pitti> thanks everyone
<skaet_> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:20.
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-02-27
<roadmr> hello!
<jedimike> heyhey
<roadmr> ok let's get started!!
<roadmr> #startmeeting Ubuntu Friendly meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Feb 27 16:00:48 2012 UTC.  The chair is roadmr. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Friendly meeting Meeting | Current topic:
<roadmr> This should be a short one
<roadmr> Hi everyone, welcome to the Ubuntu Friendly meeting!
<roadmr> Today we have the following topics to talk about:
<roadmr> * Checkbox 0.13.3 in Ubuntu 12.04 Beta 1 - please help test! (roadmr)
<roadmr> * Any Other Business
<roadmr> As usual, you're welcome to participate, to do so, indicate you want to speak by raising your hand (o/). Don't forget to also signal when you're done using ..
<roadmr> Let's get started with the (rather short) agenda!
<roadmr> [TOPIC] Checkbox 0.13.3 in Ubuntu 12.04 Beta 1 - please help test! (roadmr)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Friendly meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Checkbox 0.13.3 in Ubuntu 12.04 Beta 1 - please help test! (roadmr)
<roadmr> Checkbox version 0.13.3 was accepted in Ubuntu last Thursday! It contains some interesting bug fixes so if you've been using recent versions of checkbox, be sure to give this one a try.
<roadmr> Also, 0.13.3 will be included in Precise's Beta 1 release, which is expected to land on Thursday. This is the first milestone where checkbox-qt, rather than checkbox-gtk, will be the default when you run System Testing.
<roadmr> As such, it would be important to ensure that the checkbox experience is as usable as possible.
<roadmr> So once again, we'd like to ask for your help in running it and reporting any bugs you may find (by running ubuntu-bug checkbox, for instance).
<roadmr> This will allow us to continue fixing those bugs in time for the 12.04 release.
<roadmr> ... OK I guess that's all for this topic! any questions? comments?
<brendand> i'm installing beta1 now :)
 * jedimike is upgrading too
<roadmr> awesome! \o/
<roadmr> well do give checkbox a trial run!
<roadmr> ok if there are no more comments or questions, let's move on to...
<roadmr> cr3: any comments or questions re: checkbox 0.13.3 in Precise Beta1?
<roadmr> cr3: sorry to snipe at you but I thought best to ask before we move on to the next topic :)
<roadmr> ok then..
<roadmr> * [TOPIC] Any Other Business
<roadmr> [TOPIC] Any Other Business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Friendly meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Any Other Business
<roadmr> (damn asterisk)
<roadmr> Anything else you'd like to discuss, comment on, or bring to the team's attention? now's your chance!
<roadmr> nothing? :)
<cr3> it's a quiet meeting today..
<cr3> o/
<roadmr> cr3: go ahead!
<roadmr> whee!
<cr3> is there a concerted effort for community testing of precise beta1? if so, could we sneak checkbox into the process?
<cr3> ..
<roadmr> cr3: do you mean like iso testing? I think that's coordinated in #ubuntu-testing, we may want to ask there
<roadmr> sneaking checkbox in ther would be great :)
<cr3> roadmr: yes, as part of iso testing would be great
<roadmr> sounds good
<roadmr> let's add an
<brendand> strictly speaking iso testing only covers installation
<brendand> anything else is discretionary
<roadmr> ok hmm
<cr3> brendand: it's not tested until it's checkboxed!
<roadmr> yes, an additional optional step of "run system testing and submit your results" could produce some useful test data and usage reports on checkbox
<roadmr> who'd like to drop by #ubuntu-testing and ask whether we're still in time and whether this is indeed possible?
<cr3> I wouldn't trust myself to follow up adequately on this one :(
<cr3> but if nobody else volunteers, I guess I'll make a best effort
<roadmr> hehe
<roadmr> any other volunteers?
<roadmr> ok I guess you get the tiger :( I'll do my best to follow up on it too
<cr3> who would've thought I'd lose by winning :(
<roadmr> [ACTION] cr3 to inquire in #ubuntu-testing if using checkbox to test something in Beta 1 (which implicitly also tests checkbox!) is possible.
<meetingology> ACTION: cr3 to inquire in #ubuntu-testing if using checkbox to test something in Beta 1 (which implicitly also tests checkbox!) is possible.
<cr3> I like the "test something" part :)
<roadmr> hehe :)
<roadmr> yes, it's usually an iguanodon but a tiger is easier to understand
<roadmr> but I digress...
<roadmr> ok, any other business? AOB? anyone? :)
<roadmr> going once,
<roadmr> going twice,
<roadmr> sold for two lines of code to the gentleman in the front row!
<roadmr> Well I guess this wraps things up for today. Thanks for attending! Remember the mailing list is open to all your UF-related comments and inquiries.
<roadmr> Thanks! have a good day!
<roadmr> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Feb 27 16:23:33 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-27-16.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-27-16.00.html
<roadmr> thanks all :)
<cr3> roadmr: thanks dude!
<thingamagic> hey !
<thingamagic> is there someone?
<ogra_> not while no meeting is running
<thingamagic> i saw :(
<thingamagic> what's up ogra_?
<thingamagic> someone to talk( :/ write)?
<thingamagic> :/
<mdeslaur> \o
<tyhicks> Hello
<jdstrand> hi!
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Feb 27 18:02:18 2012 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<jdstrand> * Andreas Moog (amoog) provided debdiffs for maverick-oneiric for gypsy (LP: #690323)
<jdstrand> * Zubin Mithra (zubin-mithra) provided a debdiff for maverick for dhcpcd (LP: #931036)
<jdstrand> Your work is very much appreciated and will keep Ubuntu users secure. Great job! :)
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Review of any previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review of any previous action items
 * sbeattie sighs
<jdstrand> ACTION: sbeattie to follow up on qrt bugs from QA team
<jdstrand> sbeattie: hehe
 * jdstrand moves along
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> last week I was on triage and updated UCT to integrate with Debian's secure-testing even more
<jdstrand> I fixed some bugs in the triage process, so hopefully that will be even better
<jdstrand> tyhicks: let me know if you encounter any bugs
<jdstrand> this week I am on community
<jdstrand> and am patch piloting today
<jdstrand> libxml2 should go out today
<jdstrand> I have not been able to catchup on archive admin deNEWs, or auditing. I'm hopeful I'll get caught up on that this week
<jdstrand> between that and an embargoed issue I am working on, I should be able to get back to reactive work soonish
<jdstrand> that should be it from me
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I've finally pushed out the python-httplib2 updates this morning
<jdstrand> \o/
<mdeslaur> so everything that uses that library should be properly checking server certificates now
<mdeslaur> I've uploaded some preliminary mysql updates to the security-proposed PPA
<mdeslaur> I've just done basic upgrade testing with them, but haven't run the qa scripts yet, or the exhaustive test suite
<mdeslaur> if anyone is interested, testing feedback is appreciated
<mdeslaur> once I've tested them, I'll be pushing them to -proposed
<mdeslaur> and will send out a public call for testing
<mdeslaur> and will release them a week or two after that
<mdeslaur> I also have some postgresql updates to build and release
<mdeslaur> and will further go down the list if I have time
<mdeslaur> I am in the happy place this week
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: re mysql> seems reasonable all things considered. thanks for handling that :)
<mdeslaur> that's it from me!
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're turn
<sbeattie> I'm in the happy place this week, also.
<mdeslaur> s/you're/your/
 * jdstrand declares this "The Week of the Database"
<sbeattie> I'm working on an eglibc update
<sbeattie> also trying to get one last armel openjdk build to occur
<sbeattie> Otherwise, I'm planning on getting to the open apparmor issues I have on my plate.
<jdstrand> sbeattie: can you remind me how we will deal with this going forward? we will do a micro-release update in -proposed that will allow these to build on pandas?
<sbeattie> I think that's it for me.
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: do you think you'll get those two done this week? (eglibc and openjdk)?
<jdstrand> (and by 'we', I don't necessarily mean you ;)
<sbeattie> jdstrand: yes, this is the last upstream supported release of icedtea 1.8.x , so we need to transition away from there.
<sbeattie> Although, I do fear that the panda issue is a toolchain or kernel issue (I can reproduce the build failure on the porter, and I get a message in dmesg when it fails)
<mdeslaur> ouch
<sbeattie> and that merely moving forward may not solve the issue.
<sbeattie> mdeslaur: this week> yeah, that's the plan.
<jdstrand> sbeattie: if you haven't (istr you have), please forward all your info to doko to see if it is a toolchain issue
<sbeattie> jdstrand: I have not, will do.
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: ok, cool...please do your essential work items after those two...if any other updates come up, throw them my way
<sbeattie> okay.
<sbeattie> micahg: I think you're up.
<jdstrand> sbeattie: thanks! :)
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: thanks!
<micahg> so, I'm working on getting webkit building on stable releases, chromium beta won't even build a source package now, so I'll be looking into that, there's an icedtea regression that affects Firefox 10+ that someone needs to work on, I can take that if sbeattie is working on more pressing things
<mdeslaur> micahg: what's the regression? do we have a fix for it?
<micahg> mdeslaur: fix was uploaded to precise earlier today
<micahg> bug 927282
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 927282 in icedtea-web (Ubuntu) "Java crash with icedtea plugin and Firefox 10+" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/927282
<mdeslaur> micahg: ah, yes, could you please take that?
<micahg> yes
<mdeslaur> micahg: thanks
<sbeattie> micahg: were you able to reproduce the crash? Have you confirmed that the precise version is fixed?
<micahg> sbeattie: was able to reproduce the crash in oneiric VM, have not tested the precise fix yet
<micahg> I'll test that locally first and then move to build
<micahg> so, that's my top priority ATM (icedtea), then chromium beta and webkit as they're both long builds I can work on them in parallel
<jdstrand> micahg: did you work out the OOM stuff?
<mdeslaur> micahg: cool
<micahg> oh, and powerpc is still broke for Firefox 11, I hope to grab a fix for that so we don't regress the stable releases
<micahg> jdstrand: I forgot cyphermox gave me 2 build flags to fix that, I applied them wrong last night and will kick off a build shortly which hopefully will solve the OOM issues as well
<jdstrand> cool
<jdstrand> micahg: btw, is firefox 11 building now on older releases?
<micahg> yeah, in the beta PPA (amd64/i386)
<jdstrand> excellent
<micahg> I'll have release builds next Friday, but I'd prefer not to wait until release week to fix powerpc
<micahg> i.e. March 9
<micahg> upstream is working on it, so it shouldn't be too much effort on my part
<mdeslaur> micahg: is the fix known? don't spend too much time on powerpc
<jdstrand> seems reasonable, but be mindful we can pull powerpc in later too if needed (it is no an officially supported arch as you know)
<micahg> right
<micahg> that's it for me then
<tyhicks> I am in the triage role this week
<sbeattie> micahg: poke me when you get to the openjdk patch and I give you a little guidance there.
<sbeattie> (sorry tyhicks, go ahead)
<tyhicks> np :)
<tyhicks> I really feel like I can get the ruby1.8 update out today. I said that late last week, but the update breaks a number of puppet spec tests.
<mdeslaur> tyhicks: did you figure out why?
<tyhicks> I've now found bugs opened in the puppet bug tracker for almost all of the issues, so I am in the process of adding those to the expected failure lists in test-puppet.py and then I'll rerun everything again
<mdeslaur> huh
<jdstrand> huh
<tyhicks> mdeslaur: Yeah, hash table list outputs being randomized after fixing the hash table DoS issue
<jdstrand> ah, that would make sense
<mdeslaur> ah, yes, that,s a common problem
 * jdstrand has to do something similar with the libxml2 tests
<tyhicks> ok
<tyhicks> After I get that out, I'm going to fix eCryptfs bug #842647
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 842647 in eCryptfs "[git] file blocks duplicated at the end of the file" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/842647
<jdstrand> tyhicks: after the meeting, can you paste the output of a test-puppet.py run?
<tyhicks> jdstrand: sure
<tyhicks> I've got a patch that I started on for that eCryptfs bug, I just need to finish it off and get it upstream
<mdeslaur> tyhicks: cool...so that would pretty much be the last ecryptfs issue for precise?
<tyhicks> mdeslaur: That bug should probably be retargeted for beta 2. Even if I get it fixed and upstream in the next couple days, I don't think it will make it into the beta1 kernel
<mdeslaur> tyhicks: done
<tyhicks> mdeslaur: I still need to quiet down the logging in some error paths (simple fix). I was waiting on the kernel team to decide about turning on CONFIG_DYNAMIC_DEBUG and they determined that it increases the kernel size too much.
<mdeslaur> tyhicks: just replace all the warnings with "eCryptfs is working fine. No need to file a bug."
<jdstrand> lol
<jdstrand> nice one!
<mdeslaur> "This isn't the corruption you are looking for."
<jdstrand>  5
<jdstrand> o/
<tyhicks> mdeslaur: Heh... or at least ratelimit a few of printks so that a find command doesn't fill up the hard drive ;)
<tyhicks> :)
<mdeslaur>  5
<mdeslaur>  \o
<jdstrand> :)
<tyhicks> I've got a few kernel patches I need to review and apply and then I'll get back to my update queue after that
<mdeslaur> tyhicks: cool
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> you're up jjohansen
<jjohansen> I am pushing apparmor patches upstream this week and looking into the bugs that we hit on friday when pushing in the 2.8beta into precise.
<jjohansen> That is a minimization bug, an auditing bug, and what looks like it might be a race in the test suite for mount (no bugs #s on those yet /me needs to sync with jdstrand first).
<jjohansen> Beyond that I need to finish up some misc workitems, add more testing to mount rules, look at why overlayfs is causing bug#925028 when attach_disconnected is not used and the task is not in another namespace), and get the latest dbus stuff into a repository so work can begin on that again.
 * tyhicks wonders if jj wrote a bot that watches for me to say 'you're up jjohansen' :)
<mdeslaur> jjohansen: cool
<jjohansen> tyhicks: nah I stole the kt bot
<jjohansen> hrmmm I think thats it from me
<jjohansen> jdstrand: back to you
<sbeattie> jjohansen: I think your status report took longer than an entire kernel team meeting...
<mdeslaur> jjohansen: so, when do you think you'll be sending your stuff to the kernel team?
<jjohansen> sbeattie: hehe, okay you caught me I didn't use the bot I was just waiting and pasted the text
<jjohansen> mdeslaur: I sent them a pull request friday
<mdeslaur> jjohansen: oh, is the minimization issue in user space only?
<jjohansen> mdeslaur: well yes, and no.  There is a kernel interface bug it exposed as well that needs to be fixed and pushed
<mdeslaur> jjohansen: ok, cool
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libparallel-forkmanager-perl.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/pyftpd.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/cabextract.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/tesseract.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/ayttm.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
 * mdeslaur hears crickets
<crickets> chirp chirp
<mdeslaur> hehe
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: fall sleep? :)
 * jdstrand was enjoying the chirping
<mdeslaur> chirp chirp
<jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, micahg, tyhicks, jjohansen: thanks!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Feb 27 18:47:31 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-27-18.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-27-18.02.html
<micahg> thanks jdstrand
<tyhicks> thanks
<jjohansen> thanks jdstrand
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand
<sbeattie> thanks!
<tumbleweed> !dmb-ping
<ubottu> bdrung, cody-somerville, Laney, micahg, geser, tumbleweed, stgraber: DMB ping
<tumbleweed> are we going to meet?
 * tumbleweed changes that factoid
<Myrtti> tumbleweed: how would you want it to be?
<tumbleweed> Myrtti: s/geser/barry/
<micahg> Myrtti: no one on the agenda :), just administrative stuff if anything
<micahg> oh, that's what you mean :)
<Myrtti> tumbleweed: one moment
 * stgraber waves
 * tumbleweed wonders if these bot admins have hilights on "factoid"
<Myrtti> !dmb-ping > tumbleweed
<ubottu> tumbleweed, please see my private message
<Myrtti> tumbleweed: no, I just keep my eyes open
<tumbleweed> Myrtti: lgtm, thanks
<Myrtti> np
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-02-28
<alesage> Hi all, we'll have one of our monthly Canonical Product Strategy meetings shortly
<mmrazik> hi
<alesage> hi mmrazik, do you want to lead?
<mmrazik> alesage: do you know how the bot works?
<alesage> mmrazik, no--first time here :)
<mmrazik> then I'll start the meeting :)
<mmrazik> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Feb 28 15:31:46 2012 UTC.  The chair is mmrazik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
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<mmrazik> lets wait for a minute or so
<mmrazik> the only topic today is a short talk about Static Code Analysis and what we do in Canonical with Unity et al
<mmrazik> [TOPIC] Static Code Analysis (Coverity)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Static Code Analysis (Coverity)
<mmrazik> alesage: I think we can start
<alesage> ok thanks mmrazik
<alesage> so this will be a short chat about our use of Coverity
<alesage> which is a static analyzer
<alesage> here's our wiki page for our Coverity integration project:
<alesage> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CanonicalProductStrategy/Coverity
<alesage> and here's a link to the company's site: http://coverity.com/products/static-analysis.html
<alesage> we're using static analysis as a means to improve quality:
<alesage> the idea behind "static analysis" is kind-of a step further than what a compiler offers your C/C++/Java/etc. code
<alesage> in the case of Coverity, for example, the static analyzer sits on GCC and finds bugs in our code
<alesage> by producing 'models' of the execution--
<alesage> specifically by running 'checkers', which find common (or not so common ;) ) errors
<alesage> I'll link to a list of these checkers . . .
<alesage> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CoverityCheckerDictionary
<alesage> so taking DIVIDE_BY_ZERO as an example,
<alesage> here's a condition that might take an exceptional condition to encounter in production, e.g.
<alesage> but Coverity finds this using its sophisticated analysis
<alesage> so we wanted to add this to our process for developing Ubuntu
<alesage> at the moment our licensing covers everything that's a dependency of Unity
<alesage> and there's talk about expanding--we'll see how the evaluation goes
<alesage> are there any questions at this point?
<gema_> o/
<alesage> I have to thank tvoss for this link, meanwhile: http://drdobbs.com/open-source/232601492
<alesage> gema_, go ahead
<gema_> alesage: are you raising bugs as you find them? are you gettting a lot of false positivies?
<alesage> gema_ excellent question
<alesage> so my part of the project has been a "syncing" tool
<alesage> which submits bugs to Launchpad when these defects are found
<gema_> automatically?
<alesage> automatically--
<gema_> agreed :)
<alesage> the scanner is run as part of a Jenkins/Continuous Integration process
<alesage> so when we get a build, the scanner runs and finds its Coverity defects,
<alesage> and then a little Python script interprets these and submits them to Launchpad
<alesage> where they enter the normal Ubuntu developer workflow
<alesage> let me get the link for some existing bugs . . .
<alesage> https://bugs.launchpad.net/~coverity-uploader
<alesage> so we haven't found a full set as yet, and it's still to early to show our 'defect density' (ref. the link above)
<alesage> and gema_ as this is still and informal process I'm not aware of complaints about false positives
<gema_> alesage: I am very impressed, looks pretty good
<mmrazik> this is up and running for about a week
<mmrazik> after some time we might want to do some queries and get the % of invalid bugs or something like that
<alesage> gema_ yeah it's fun to go through the defects
<mmrazik> that should give us some idea about the false positives
<gema_> mmrazik: ack
<alesage> let's take an example
<alesage> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bamf/+bug/937402
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 937402 in BAMF trunk "Coverity UNINIT - CID 10451" [Low,Triaged]
<alesage> so here's an uninitialized variable somewhere deep in bamf
<alesage> you see that you get a little code snippet in the bug body there
<alesage> and also an attachment with a prettier rendering of the source code
<alesage> Coverity offers a more sophisticated product called the "Integrity Manger"
<alesage> most of the features of which this 'syncer' is offering to Launchpad users
<alesage> one more interesting case:
<alesage> https://bugs.launchpad.net/libindicator/+bug/937387
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 937387 in libindicator "Coverity PW.USELESS_TYPE_QUALIFIER_ON_RETURN_TYPE - CID 10617" [High,Fix committed]
<alesage> here's a case in which Coverity has found the same defect in multiple projects
<alesage> in this case the root of the problem is in libindicator
<alesage> and ted has tackled and ably squashed the bug
<alesage> but note that Coverity's tracking of defects enables us to keep the defects in one place, as one Launchpad bug
<alesage> any questions at this point?
<alesage> so honestly this is my first encounter with static analysis
<alesage> do people have more extensive experience with this, or with Coverity itself?
<alesage> so we'll have some metrics to offer in our Quality Hour blog at some point in the future
<alesage> please stay tuned :)
<alesage> and feel free to follow up with me for questions anytime
<alesage> thanks all--anything else mmrazik?
<mmrazik> any last questions?
<mmrazik> in that case -- thank you for the meeting and lets meet in a month :)
<mmrazik> bb
<mmrazik> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Feb 28 15:59:52 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-28-15.31.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-28-15.31.html
<lynxman> \o
<alesage> lynxman, yes
<lynxman> alesage: ah no worries, just waiting for the next meeting :)
<justinlw> \o
<utlemming> \o
<jamespage> o/
<arosales> \o
<smb> \o
<jamespage> utlemming, you chaired last week right?
<zul> hi
<utlemming> I did
<alesage> yes utlemming
<jamespage> ah - guess that means zul is in the chair then :-)
<lynxman> zul: chair it like a boss
<zul> ooh quick meeting then
<zul> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Feb 28 16:05:10 2012 UTC.  The chair is zul. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<zul> so this is the server team meeting so lets get started
<zul> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<adam_g> o/
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<zul> i guess there was none?
<zul> #topic Precise Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Precise Development
<zul> so beta-1 is next week isnt it?
<ogra_> in two days
<arosales> beta-1 testing is now open
<zul> damn...i need a better calendar
<zul> does anyone want to drive this topic?
<zul> Daviey: ^^^
<zul> arosales: ^^^
<arosales> Any Feature Freeze expectations to note?
<arosales> zul: keystone is going well?
<zul> arosales: yeah..but it seems to have broke some things
<zul> service tokens have changed so people upstream are grossing about it
<zul> but yeah
<arosales> ok, thanks for working on that zul
<arosales> Any work items folks would like to talk about
<arosales> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/ubuntu-server.html
<zul> the debian-installer one should be fixed now
<zul> bug 923681
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 923681 in debian-installer (Ubuntu) "Server install fails when selecting everything but 'VM host' & 'Manual selection' from tasksel" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/923681
<arosales> thats good news
<zul> anything else?
<arosales> nothing more from me on this topic.
<zul> anyone want to bring anything else up?
 * arosales still looking at work item status, but will work on that offline
<zul> if not
<zul> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<zul> ODS is coming up in April, UDS is coming up after that
<zul> any events people are going to?
<Daviey> hola, i thought utlemming was charining?
<arosales> m_3 is @ Strata
<zul> Daviey: that was last week
<utlemming> Daviey: that was last week
<utlemming> :)
<Daviey> utlemming: wiki said otherwise.. anyway, sorry for the noise.
<zul> anyways i dont think there is any other events coming up
<zul> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<hggdh> hi
<zul> hey hggdh
<hggdh> only... Beta testing, and testing, folks ;-)
<hggdh> ..
<zul> cool
<zul> any questions for hggdh
<zul> if not quickly moving on:
<zul> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<zul> hi smb
<smb> From things going on I believe the only thing worth noting from my side is for Lucid where I had been looking at a bug about spinlocking that lead to even more determined thinking of dropping the whole ec2 patch delta and moving back to the basic 2.6.32 kernel for EC2 as well. The decision to go with the special patch set was based on one missing
<smb> patch. And we know about that now. Of cousrse this needs a lot of testing before actually going on with that
<zul> cool
<smb> Otherwise open for question if there are
<smb> ..
<zul> any questions?
 * smb thinks no
<zul> everybody must be working away
<zul> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
<zul> hi rbasak
<rbasak> hello!
<zul> anything to bring up
<rbasak> Nothing to report.
<rbasak> Any questions for me?
<rbasak> Oh - the ARM team has now merged into platform, QA etc.
<zul> if not moving on
<zul> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion
<zul> anything to bring up
<arosales> \o
<arosales> adam_g: Did you get any more info on bug 924739?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 924739 in squid3 (Ubuntu Precise) "after upgrade from oneiric to precise, previous squid config unused, cannot be used when relocated" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/924739
<arosales> zul, mind if we go through at least the high bugs @ http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html
<zul> arosales: go ahead
<arosales> zul, ok thanks.
<arosales> bug 883988
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 883988 in glance (Ubuntu Precise) "db migration failing when upgrading glance - trying to create existing tables" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/883988
<arosales> adam_g: were you working on this one?
<arosales> perhaps similar to bug 779311
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 779311 in glance (Ubuntu) "Glance update for Ubuntu failing" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/779311
<arosales> bug 893926
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 893926 in eucalyptus (Ubuntu) "Contains traces of UEC" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/893926
<Daviey> ^^ i think we should try and punt that to iamfuzz
<arosales> no recent updates on this one, any one have any information on EUC?
<Daviey> (Sorry for being largely absent.)
<arosales> bug 911812
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 911812 in facter (Ubuntu Precise) "processor fact does not handle arm, others" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/911812
<roaksoax> arosales: haven't taken care of it as I've been busy with the MaaS stuff
<arosales> roaksoax: roger that, still on your radar though?
<roaksoax> arosales: yest, this week i should definitely get it done (gfinally)
<arosales> roaksoax: cool, thanks :-)
<arosales> bug 923681
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 923681 in debian-installer (Ubuntu) "Server install fails when selecting everything but 'VM host' & 'Manual selection' from tasksel" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/923681
<arosales> zul already covered that
<arosales> bug 925024
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 925024 in lxc (Ubuntu) "apparmor makes it impossible to install postgresql-common on Precise" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/925024
<arosales> hallyn: any more insights into 925024?
<arosales> or still waiting on feedback from Brad?
<arosales> bug 850443
<adam_g> arosales: sorry, internet dropped. re squid bug, talked to daviey about this yesterday and i have better direction now than last week.  i pinged upstream about bug 883988, the glance db migration bug seems to be deferred upstream till next cycle, so ill probably try to come up with a fix myself for that.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 850443 in python-eventlet (Ubuntu) "Nova API does not listen on IPv6" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/850443
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 883988 in glance (Ubuntu Precise) "db migration failing when upgrading glance - trying to create existing tables" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/883988
<hallyn> arosales: fix is heading into the kernel
<arosales> hallyn: great, thanks.
<arosales> Daviey: is 850443 yours?
<arosales> adam_g: Thanks for the update and continuing to work on that squid.conf issue.
<arosales> bug 928383
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 928383 in glance (Ubuntu) "python-glance package contains stuff about API and registry" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/928383
<arosales> look to be fairly new
<adam_g> arosales: i think that one is invalid, ill mark it so
<Daviey> arosales: currently blocked on upstream bug tracker comments
<arosales> adam_g: Thanks for updating 928383
<arosales> Daviey: ok, thanks.
<arosales> bug 928990
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 928990 in cloud-init (Ubuntu) "fsck / dirty filesystem on instance is death" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/928990
<arosales> Looks like smoser filed this one on  Feb 8th
<arosales> smoser: utlemming: any further insights on 928990?
<arosales> bug 929780
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 929780 in nova (Ubuntu) "console.ring files should not be world readable" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/929780
<adam_g> zul: was that console.ring permission one fixed with the proper refresh of the nova console patch we carry?
<zul> i think thats fixed
<rbasak> what's the instance directory's permissions?
<rbasak> or is that the fix?
<zul> thats the fix
<arosales> zul, could you update that bug?
<zul> ill double check one more time today :(
<arosales> solid, thanks zul :-)
<arosales> zul: that covers the high bugs, there is a few pings out there for folks still . . .
<arosales> but perhaps they will catch the log or back scroll
<lynxman> Daviey: did you get to talk with jdstrand about the puppet security update?
<Daviey> lynxman: not as yet
<zul> anything else?
<rbasak> We should have a separate agenda item for Precise Server release bugs really.
<zul> we should not have any bugs ;)
<rbasak> Action item for zul: fix all the bugs :)
<zul> yeah thats not going to happen :P
<lynxman> zul: if there's anyone that can do it, it's you
<zul> if anyone thing has any else
<zul> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announce next meeting date and time
<zul> next week same bat time same bat channel
<zul> thanks for coming
<zul> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Feb 28 16:39:25 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-28-16.05.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-28-16.05.html
<arosales> who is the chair for the next meeting?
<arosales> hallyn next on the list, but I think he may have just dropped
<arosales> ok, thanks folks -- enjoy the rest of your day.
<arosales> zul thanks for chairing
<ppisati> o/
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Feb 28 17:00:05 2012 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Precise
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<apw> o/
<cking> o/
<herton> o/
<tgardner> o/
<ogasawara> o/
<sforshee> o/
<henrix> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<bjf> o/
<ppisati> P/omap4: a new kernel (3.2.0-1407.9) was cut, rebased on top of 3.2.0-17.27, with fixes for usb musb (lp 927860), led heartbeat (lp 905445) and smsc95xx cmdline macaddr option (lp 937051).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 927860 in linux-ti-omap4 (Ubuntu) "Missing musb-hdrc module required by Pandaboard OTG port" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/927860
<ppisati> M/omap4: to reserve >= 2GB of memory (lp 861296) the memory layout was changed from a 2G/2G to a 3G/1G split - next SRU kernel will contain this fix.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 905445 in linux-ti-omap4 (Ubuntu) "Starting with Precise, the heartbeat strobe on LED1 no longer functions on panda" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/905445
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 937051 in linux-ti-omap4 (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Cannot set MAC address via kernel boot parameters" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/937051
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 861296 in linux-ti-omap4 (Ubuntu Natty) "mmap fails to allocate 2030Mb heap on ARM" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/861296
<ppisati> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/canonical-kernel-distro-team-ubuntu-12.04-beta-1.html
<ogasawara> || apw        || hardware-p-kernel-boot                || 4 work items ||
<ogasawara> ||            || hardware-p-kernel-config-review       || 6 work items ||
<ogasawara> ||            || hardware-p-kernel-delta-review        || 3 work items ||
<ogasawara> || sconklin   || servercloud-p-ceph                    || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> If your name is in the above table, please review your Beta-1 work
<ogasawara> items.  If they won't be closed by Thursday, please push them out to
<ogasawara> Beta-2.
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Blueprint: hardware-p-kernel-power-management (cking)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Blueprint: hardware-p-kernel-power-management (cking)
<cking> Power Management:
<cking>  * Bluetooth power consumption in suspend
<cking>    http://zinc.canonical.com/~cking/power-benchmarking/bluetooth-suspend
<cking>  * Background colour with DPMS off
<cking>    http://zinc.canonical.com/~cking/power-benchmarking/background-dpms
<cking>  * Call for testing: latest RC6 fixes, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/PowerManagementRC6
<cking>    Please *re-test* if you haven't already done so. Thanks to Leann Ogasawara
<cking>    for organising this.
<cking> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Precise Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Precise Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> The archive remains frozen for the upcoming Beta-1 release on Thursday.
<ogasawara> We received a Beta Freeze exception last week to upload a fix for the
<ogasawara> RC6 patch we applied.  This has received positive testing feedback and
<ogasawara> it looks promising that we will be able to ship with RC6 enabled by
<ogasawara> default.
<ogasawara> We have been queueing patches for the first post Beta-1 upload.  This
<ogasawara> will include a rebase to the latest v3.2.8 upstream stable release.  We
<ogasawara> will need to coordinate our upload with the planned gcc-4.6 upload.
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara>  * Thurs Mar 01 - Beta 1 (~2 days)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's (apw)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's (apw)
<apw> Currently we have 74 CVEs on our radar, two new CVEs were added this week.
<apw> See the CVE matrix for the current list:
<apw>  
<apw> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<apw>  
<apw> Overall the backlog is broadly unchanged this week, we have closed one
<apw> of the new CVEs and the other is already fixed for a number of releases:
<apw>  
<apw> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/status/cve-metrics.txt
<apw> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/CVE-linux.txt
<apw>  
<apw> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Oneiric/Natty/Maverick/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/herton)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Oneiric/Natty/Maverick/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/herton)
<bjf> Here is the status for the main kernels, until today (Feb. 28):
<bjf>  
<bjf>  * Hardy - 2.6.24-31.99     - Ready for copy to -updates
<bjf>  * Lucid - 2.6.32-39.86     - In regression testing
<bjf>  * Maverick - 2.6.35-32.66  - In regression testing
<bjf>  * Natty - 2.6.38-13.56     - In regression testing
<bjf>  * Oneiric - 3.0.0-16.29    - In regression testing
<bjf>  
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>  * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf>  
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>  * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<bjf>  
<bjf> Future stable cadence cycles:
<bjf>  * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseInterlock
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Feb 28 17:05:16 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-28-17.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-28-17.00.html
<cking> thanks jsalisbury
<apw> jsalisbury, ta
<kamal> jsalisbury: thanks
<tgardner> sconklin, your name is on ogasawara's list: http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/canonical-kernel-distro-team-ubuntu-12.04-beta-1.html
<sconklin> looking
<sconklin> I'm also in another meeting . . .
<tgardner> sconklin, ceph evaluation I think
<sconklin> I'll get it looked at today and see whether it needs to be deferred. I think it can probably be done
<sconklin> well, the tests can be written, but there's still no place for them to run in QA
<sconklin> I think it has to be deferred for that reason
<ogasawara> sconklin: deferred to beta-2?  or Q?
<sconklin> ogasawara: to Q, as there won't be any tests other than SRU testing in QA for the kernel during this cycle, best I can tell
<ogasawara> sconklin: ack
<sconklin> ogasawara: although if there's value in standing up some tests in some private test instances, we can pursue that
<sconklin> I don't know who would know how important that is
<ogasawara> sconklin: I'd talked to clint about some other work items assigned to our team in that blueprint and we postponed them as there were workarounds and it is a low priority blueprint
<sconklin> ack, should I talk to clint about postponing cep QA testing?
<ogasawara> sconklin: well, I just postponed it for you :)
<sconklin> thanks
<ogasawara> sconklin: if I hear of any backlash, I'll let you know
<sconklin> ack, we can do something less than full-blown QA testing if  they just need some sanity checks
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-02-29
 * slangasek waves
<infinity> o/
 * ogra_ moos
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Feb 29 16:03:28 2012 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh ev bdmurray slangasek ogra infinity)
<slangasek> infinity barry stgraber ogra bdmurray slangasek doko jodh ev
<slangasek> infinity: looks like you get to go first for your first Foundations meeting :)
<infinity> Fiiiine.
<doko> ohh man, this list is long ...
<infinity> Worked on this week: - cdimage and debian-cd tweaks for ARM images and kubuntu-active - helped with general release management and queue management - filed tickets with IS for buildd precise upgrades - looked at fpc on armhf a bit more
<infinity> Upcoming work: - need to chase down status of gnat on armhf with Linaro - more work on livefs-in-soyuz (rewriting from memory) - need to find time to debug the root cause of the qtwebkit-source FTBFS - finish the fpc on armhf port - dodge doko's attempts to dump the entire C toolchain on me - possibility of a (short) emergency VAC for personal reasons
<infinity> Gah.
<infinity> irrsi, damn you and your hatred of leading whitespace.
<infinity> irssi, too.
<infinity> Let's try that harder.
<infinity> Worked on this week:
<infinity> - cdimage and debian-cd tweaks for ARM images and kubuntu-active
<infinity> - helped with general release management and queue management
<infinity> - filed tickets with IS for buildd precise upgrades
<infinity> - looked at fpc on armhf a bit more
<infinity> Upcoming work:
<infinity> - need to chase down status of gnat on armhf with Linaro
<infinity> - more work on livefs-in-soyuz (rewriting from memory)
<infinity> - need to find time to debug the root cause of the qtwebkit-source FTBFS
<infinity> - finish the fpc on armhf port
<infinity> - dodge doko's attempts to dump the entire C toolchain on me
<infinity> - possibility of a (short) emergency VAC for personal reasons
<infinity> There.
<doko> infinity, qtwebkit ... this is the linker needing too much memory, afaics
<infinity> doko: Yes, but why?
<doko> because it's an insane amount of code?
<infinity> doko: It's the same amount of code on other arches. :P
<slangasek> it was running out of memory on other arches too, before tweaking?
<infinity> doko: Including armel, which doesn't have the issue.
<doko> infinity, yes, and webkit ftbfs on powerpc for the same reason
<infinity> So, I dunno.  We'll see.  Maybe it can just be tweaked a bit, or maybe the linker on armhf is doing something dumb.
<barry> infinity: all done?
<infinity> barry: Go nuts.
 * barry can't go where he already is, but...
<infinity> Go nutser.
<barry> bugs investigated, fixed, sponsored: bug 903126 (smc ftbfs), bug 903121 (crystalspace ftbfs), bug 27520 (cron multiple SRUs), bug 828731 (kexec-tools multiple SRUs), bug 848915 (update-manager without $DISPLAY), bug 556293 (apt global proxy), bug 942408 (python-support not cleaning up after upgrade).  Sync'd wadllib 1.3.0-1.  Also worked on Python issue 13703 (hash collision security issue) and Python 2.6.8rc1 released.  To do: +1maint,
<barry> look at a few more bugs from my list, and prepping for Pycon next week.  â
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 903126 in smc (Debian) "smc 1.9-4ubuntu1 fails to build with cegui-mk2 0.7.5-7" [Unknown,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/903126
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 903121 in crystalspace (Ubuntu) "crystalspace 1.4.0+dfsg-4ubuntu2 fails to build with cegui-mk2 0.7.5-7" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/903121
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 27520 in cron (Ubuntu Lucid) "cron daemon caches user-non-existent lookup results, causing "ORPHAN" message and skipping jobs for all LDAP/NIS-defined users" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/27520
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 828731 in kexec-tools (Ubuntu Natty) "kdump functionality not working as expected when /boot is a separate partition" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/828731
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 848915 in update-manager (Ubuntu Precise) "cryptic traceback when running update-manager w/no X $DISPLAY" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/848915
<stgraber> - Networking
<stgraber>  - Blogged about the changes to DNS in 12.04: http://www.stgraber.org/2012/02/24/dns-in-ubuntu-12-04/
<stgraber>  - Tested and applied patch to fix netcfg's dns-nameservers handling (bug 932275)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 932275 in ifupdown (Ubuntu) "Bogus or no nameserver information written to /etc/network/interfaces" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/932275
<stgraber> - TPM
<stgraber>  - Fixed bug 934799 so that trousers now installs properly
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 934799 in trousers (Ubuntu) "trousers start script has exit status 137" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/934799
<stgraber> - Installer
<stgraber>  - Last minute fixes of the installer slideshows (all flavours) and uploaded for beta1
<stgraber>  - Fixed bug 898278 and bug 936115 in ubiquity.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 898278 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Precise) "Upgrade menu option should not appear for old releases" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/898278
<stgraber>  - Tracked down bug 939450 to a gtk regression
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 936115 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Precise) "ubiquity crashed with TypeError in partman_popup(): popup() takes exactly 7 arguments (6 given)" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/936115
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 939450 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Precise) "ubiquity crashed with TypeError: argument of type 'NoneType' is not iterable in ubi-partman.py" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/939450
<stgraber>  - Uploaded a workaround for bug 645449 that in turn caused bug 942560, now woking on the right way of fixing this ...
<stgraber>  - Also started debugging bug 940908 but it's lower priority than the other one
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 645449 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Precise) "Ubiquity hangs at Keyboard layout if you use keyboard to navigate / select" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/645449
<stgraber>  - Noticed during ISO testing that Wubi in Edubuntu doesn't allow me to install it (only offer the "reboot to live environment" option), apparently caused by broken free space calculation
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 942560 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "keyboard layout screen - Keyboard navigation broken" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/942560
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 940908 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Precise) "Keyboard layout not set on persistent USB image" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/940908
<stgraber> - Containers
<stgraber>  - Some more Ubuntu server guide review for the LXC section
<stgraber>  - Fixed some more bugs in the Ubuntu LXC template to do with sudo group in older releases.
<stgraber> - Other
<stgraber>  - Wrote a new queuebot, currently running in #ubuntu-release
<stgraber> (done)
<doko> infinity, ftbfs on armel too
<slangasek> barry: I assigned you a couple of triaged bugs on update-manager that looked like easy wins; do you think you could get to those this week?
<infinity> doko: Only due to a broken .symbols file.
<barry> slangasek: yep, their on my list for this week
<infinity> doko: The link succeeds.
<slangasek> cheers
<jodh> Worked on fix for bug 940290 (updating tests atm...) Investigating bug
<jodh> 883618 - looks like "something" is calling an xdg-* command or possibly
<jodh> /usr/share/acpi-support/screenblank, but tricky to pin this down due to
<jodh> the time taken to perform the upgrade. Wishing we had opengrok to help
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 940290 in upstart "console log consumes fds upon job restart/respawn" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/940290
<jodh> track this down. :). Did some investigation on bug 935296 and
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 935296 in java-atk-wrapper (Ubuntu Precise) "java-atk-wrapper prevents java applications from starting" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/935296
<jodh> established bug is with AT-SPI/ATK.
<jodh> â
<barry> slangasek: if you have a preference for priority, pvtmsg me your list
<slangasek> barry: ack
<slangasek> ogra_: you're up
<ogra_> jodh, is serial console support still on your list ?
<ogra_> done:
<ogra_> * started researching why ubiquity kde bits end up on ac100 images
<ogra_> * look into bug #924018 (Preseeding doesn't work with oem-config) ... made sure preseed values get applied at all, now on to why oem-config doesnt pick up
<ogra_> * tried to spend a little time with bug #747229 (screen color change when oem-config-remove runs in serial consoles)
<ogra_> * closed a handfull of bugs in the "rotting ubuntu-arm bugs" list, ongoing process
<ogra_> * started researching why the keyboard selection gets completely skipped in oem-config in some preinstalled images (bug #925482)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 924018 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Preseeding doesn't work with oem-config" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/924018
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 747229 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Precise) "weird color change during oem-config debconf package removal step in serial installs" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/747229
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 925482 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Precise) "no keboard selection offered in oem-config on precise ac100 images" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/925482
<ogra_> * did general image testing for omap4 and ac100 as well as typical milestone paperwork (tech preview wiki, manifest etc)
<ogra_> todo:
<ogra_> * fix whatever causes the kde bits to show up
<ogra_> * more oem-config bugwork
<ogra_> * stopwatch initrdless boot
<ogra_> * look across the armel ftbfs list
<ogra_> ..
<infinity> ogra_: Which kde bits?
<ogra_> infinity, well, ubiquity-frontend-kde and all its deps end up on the ac100 images
<ogra_> not sure why ... but its pretty visible since akonadi is the first app in the unity app lens now :P
<ogra_> they also dont get removed
<ogra_> ..
<bdmurray> bug triage of iso-testing bug reports
<bdmurray> bug triage of update-manager bug reports
<bdmurray> discussion with mvo regarding NvidiaDetection and datadir and distribution upgrades (fixed)
<infinity> ogra_: I'll poke at it, it's my code breaking. :P
<ogra_> you sure ?
<infinity> *nod*
<bdmurray> modifications to the bug pattern for bug 541595 to avoid incorrect dupication
<jodh> ogra_: it's in there somewhere. I'll see if I can sift it slightly
<jodh> closer to the surface.
<jodh>  
<jodh>  
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 541595 in dpkg (Ubuntu) "[Master] package failed to install/upgrade: package is already installed and configured" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/541595
<bdmurray> bug bot fix for no package bugs without a SourcePackage line in the bug description
<bdmurray> wrote launchpadlib code to show the 20 hottest bugs about packages to which the foundations team is subscribed
<bdmurray> blog post regarding recent package bug tasks charts
<ogra_> infinity, i was suspecting ac100-tarball-installer vs jasper
<bdmurray> experimentation with recent package bug tasks and showing duplicate bugs
<bdmurray> experimented with recent bug tasks graph changes (periods show 1-7 and 8-14)
<bdmurray> created a bugs receiving duplicates chart
<bdmurray> troubleshooting an mdadm recovery issue - bug 925280
<bdmurray> push ubiquity apport package hook modifications to fix bug 874727
<bdmurray> call with evan regarding crash database
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 925280 in mdadm (Ubuntu) "Software RAID fails to rebuild after testing degraded cold boot" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/925280
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 874727 in apport (Ubuntu Precise) "media error bug report blocking is incomplete" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/874727
<bdmurray> â
<slangasek> bdmurray: hmm, is there more than one "already installed and configured" bug, or was the bug pattern duping things that were altogether unrelated?
<doko> infinity, both the bfd and the gold linker fail to link this
<bdmurray> slangasek: no, not altogether unrelated - just a bit overzealous
<bdmurray> slangasek: it was a small number of incorrect dupes and I fixed the most recent ones
<slangasek> ok
<infinity> doko: Ahh, I hadn't tested with gold yet (though I note that the build is attempting to use gold and failing to do so... Do we not carry the --with-ld GCC patch?)
<doko> infinity, use -B/usr/lib/gold-ld to use gold
<doko> /usr/bin/ld: fatal error: libQtWebKit.so.4.9.0: mmap: failed to allocate 4275704736 bytes for output file: Cannot allocate memory
<doko> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
<slangasek> bdmurray: I don't think I've seen this hottest-bugs list yet - anything interesting there?
<slangasek> * worked on:
<slangasek>  * ARM team hand-off
<slangasek>  * driving discussion with Debian about upstart
<slangasek>  * beta-1 tending
<slangasek>  * NFS fixes (bug #939232)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 939232 in libnfsidmap (Ubuntu) "nfs mount fails and rpc.idmapd fails" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/939232
<slangasek>  * resolvconf: cope with historically broken netcfg. (bug #932275)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 932275 in ifupdown (Ubuntu) "Bogus or no nameserver information written to /etc/network/interfaces" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/932275
<slangasek>  * upload activity-log-manager to fix an upgrade issue (bug #939842)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 939842 in activity-log-manager (Ubuntu) "package activity-log-manager-control-center 0.9.1-0ubuntu2 failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite '/etc/dbus-1/system.d/com.ubuntu.WhoopsiePreferences.conf', which is also in package whoopsie 0.1.10" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/939842
<slangasek> * upcoming:
<slangasek>  * planning finalized for virtual sprint (Mar 19-21)
<bdmurray> slangasek: that's for later!  the hottest bug is twice as hot as the 2nd hottest and we should sort it out
<slangasek> (done)
<infinity> ogra_: Definitely my bug.  Fixing.
<slangasek> bdmurray: ok :)
<doko> - integrated icedtea-web pages upstream, update package to current 1.2 branch
<doko> - update and integrate cjk font patches into openjdk-6 and -7
<doko> - investigate test suite hang in openjdk-6, ix86 only, for now just disable the tests
<doko> - gcc-4.6.3~rc1 packaging
<doko> - prepare gcc-linaro updates based on the existing 2012.02 release
<doko> - cherry pick gcc-linaro ARM patches from Linaro
<doko> - help janimo to investigate the chromium build failure on armhf
<doko> - investigate and forward some general gcc-4.6 ICEs (ppl, webkit)
<doko> - investigate qtwebkit-source build failures on ARM
<doko> - prepare eglibc debian merge (libc6-dbg multiarch installability for non-ARM)
<doko> - dump eglibc on adconrad, do it right!
<doko> (done, but still dumping ;)
 * slangasek eyes the snow
 * infinity doesn't see anyone named adconrad.
<slangasek> heh
<slangasek> and jodh went and ev is on the list but is at conference today
<doko> that's a fake dump so that you are not prepared for the real one ;-P
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugz
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugz
<bdmurray> so our hottest bug is bug 659438
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 659438 in apt (Ubuntu) "Installation/Removal fails because of package which could not be located (failure in apt.Cache.required_download)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/659438
<bdmurray> I believe there is some bug status confusion on it
<infinity> bdmurray: And if it didn't OOPS LP, we could look at it.
<slangasek> it worked for me
<infinity> Three timeouts in a row for me.
<infinity> Oh well.
<bdmurray> use +text
<bdmurray> if you want the gist of it
<infinity> Ahh, it just rendered on the fourth go.
<ogra_> hmm, some dupes there
<bdmurray> only dupe 903269 has apport data and is from precise
<slangasek> I wonder if we should just set that as the master bug
<bdmurray> It might also be that its the same traceback but a different bug
<slangasek> could be
<infinity> ogra_: (Fix committed and uploaded, BTW)
<ogra_> merci !
 * ogra_ strikes it off his todo
<slangasek> bdmurray: followed up on the bug and dropped the "fix committed"
<slangasek> er no
<slangasek> attempted to, but now I've hit an lp timeout ;)
<slangasek> bdmurray: I'll try to follow up on that asynchronously then.  what else do you have for bugs?
<slangasek> ok that's way too much white stuff falling from the sky
<bdmurray> bug 941922 - I couldn't decide how important that should be
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 941922 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "do-release-upgrade races puppet for file contents" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/941922
<slangasek> bdmurray: hmm, I'd say medium at most
<slangasek> seems like people using puppet should be disabling it during a dist-upgrade, no?
<infinity> I'm inclined to say that automagic configuration management and package managers just plain can't run concurrently.
<stgraber> the definitely should turn off puppet or any other configuration management tool during upgrade
<stgraber> *they
<infinity> Not sure if that's something that should be fixed in apt/dpkg/rpm/etc/etc, or just in puppet (or in the minds of admins)
<mvo> bdmurray: about #659438> do the reproduce steps actually work?
<bdmurray> mvo: the test case in that?  I haven't tried that yet but can today.
<ogra_> stgraber, well, as ugly as it is, then there should probably a debconf note telling them
<mvo> we *could* turn off pupett automatically before the upgrade if that is something that people want, I'm just not sure that this is uncontroversial
<mvo> bdmurray: that would be great, TBH the instruction does not look correct to me but I may be wrong about it
<ogra_> (like we do on libc upgrades)
<infinity> mvo: Sure, you could do it in a high level tool like update-manager, but that still feels like it's broken for low-level package management.
 * mvo nods at infinity
<infinity> mvo: Maybe what this really wants is puppet shipping an apt-utils hook that turns itself off and on.
<slangasek> that sounds sane to me
<infinity> mvo: Still doesn't cover the dpkg case, but it covers most everything else.
<mvo> infinity: good point, that sounds like the best way forward, dpkg::{pre,post}-invoke
 * infinity nods.
<slangasek> so we can reassign it to puppet and let the server team decide the severity? :)
<infinity> And a dependency on apt-utils, so it works.  (or is apt-utils no longer required for dpkg::-invoke hooks?)
<mvo> the invoke hooks should work without apt-utils
<infinity> Oh, shiny.
<infinity> Even better, then.
<infinity> Feels like the cleanest solution to me, short of doing it at the dpkg level.
 * mvo tries to think of a reason why it wouldn't but fails and gets more tea to keep the engine running
<slangasek> mvo, infinity: one of you want to reassign to puppet with that explanation?
<jodh> What about the case where an admin runs do-release-upgrade by
<jodh> mistake? Wouldn't it be better to have the command print a warning an
<jodh> exit until admins intervene to manually switch off puppet/cfengine/bcfg2/etc?
<jodh>  
<jodh> s/an/and/
<slangasek> jodh: if you run "do-release-upgrade" by mistake, you get to keep both pieces
<infinity> jodh: Well, with the apt hook solution, there's no real need for warning.  puppet just gets disabled (and re-enabled) every time apt runs.
<slangasek> we're not responsible for our users hiring minimally competent sysadmins ;)
<mvo> jodh: if we go with the suggestion from infinity that would be fine because puttet would shutdown when dpkg is invoked by apt which it should. and if at this point it was still a mistake there are more problems :)
<infinity> slangasek: I can follow up on the bug post-meeting, since mvo seems to have remained silent. :P
<slangasek> infinity: thanks :-)
<mvo> infinity: I was about to say that I can do it but you deserve credit for the plan so â¦ ;)
<slangasek> bdmurray: any more?
<jodh> If a system is being managed by puppet, is it ever valid to run
<jodh> do-release-upgrade though?
<jodh>  
<bdmurray> bug 942030
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 942030 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "'Take a photo' preview pane not showing live preview" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/942030
<infinity> jodh: Sure.
<infinity> jodh: d-r-u is just a flimsy wrapper around apt.  In the best case (ie: if we don't have horrible bugs we're hiding and working around in update-manager), it literally does nothing but install and remove packages. :P
<stgraber> bdmurray: I guess I'll take that one once I'm done with the keyboard stuff then, will need to figure out a way to expose a webcam to kvm ;)
<infinity> jodh: And if "running apt" is an invalid thing for puppet users to do, there's a problem.
<bdmurray> heh
<bdmurray> that's all then
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Patch piloting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Patch piloting
<slangasek> just as dholbach leaves ;)
<barry> :)
<infinity> Well timed.
<infinity> I know I missed my last pilot session due to connectivity issues while I was at Connect. :/
<slangasek> just to reiterate... we need to make sure patch piloting is happening, to keep contributions flowing in
<slangasek> our track record on this has not been great
<slangasek> if circumstances prevent you from piloting on your assigned day (because it overlaps with a conference for example), by all means swap days
<slangasek> doko: looks like you're scheduled to patch pilot tomorrow - is that going to work ok?
<doko> urgh
<doko> yeah, will try to start early
<bdmurray> regarding patches I also wanted to mention https://bugs.launchpad.net/~foundations-bugs/+patches
<slangasek> bdmurray: do you know if that list is going up/down?
<bdmurray> slangasek: I would guess up but don't have numbers right in front of me
<slangasek> that's a good list of bugs for folks to draw on as well when patch piloting, anyway - probably a lot of these (particularly the older ones) should have the patch tag dropped because they don't really fix the bug
<slangasek> maybe stgraber wants to review the patch in bug #20420 :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 20420 in netcfg (Ubuntu) "default to wired network interface if connected" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/20420
<slangasek> any other concerns on patch piloting?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> or other business?
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Feb 29 16:56:24 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-29-16.03.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-29-16.03.html
<slangasek> done
<slangasek> thanks :)
<ogra_> thanks !
<stgraber> thanks!
<barry> thanks!
<jodh> /q slangasek
<jodh>  
<jodh>  
<jodh>  
<balloons> let's get started shall we?
<balloons> #startmeeting Ubuntu QA
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Feb 29 17:03:25 2012 UTC.  The chair is balloons. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu QA Meeting | Current topic:
<balloons> can we get a roll call of who's around
<phillw> o/
<phillw> could be a short meeting :/
<balloons> heh
<brendand> o/
<josepht> o/
<balloons> alrighty.. well let's dive into the agenda
<balloons> there was one outstanding item, for me to update the wiki
<balloons> ACTION: balloons to update QA Team wiki heading
<balloons> i wanted to add an activities icon
<balloons> I seem to only be successful at breaking the header page
<phillw> cproffit from ubuntu-begginers helped me when I got stuck with the new lubuntu header
<balloons> phillw, awesome, I'll consult him.. expect to see that today after the meeting
<balloons> i picked the <3 icon for activities
<balloons> hehe
<balloons> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Updates
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu QA Meeting | Current topic:  Ubuntu Updates
<balloons> jibel, are you around?
<jibel> hey
<balloons> hello :-) care to update us on ubuntu qa activities this week?
<jibel> sure, Precise Beta 1 testing in progress
<jibel> list of images that need testing http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/208/builds
<jibel> a bunch of bugs has been found http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/reports/defects/opened
<jibel> major bugs with the installer and the live session are:
<jibel> bug 940908
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 940908 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Precise) "Keyboard layout not set on persistent USB image" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/940908
<jibel> bug 939450
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 939450 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Precise) "ubiquity crashed with TypeError: argument of type 'NoneType' is not iterable in ubi-partman.py" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/939450
<jibel> bug 942560
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 942560 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "keyboard layout screen - Keyboard navigation broken" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/942560
<brendand> o/
<balloons> yes brendand ?
<jibel> and bug 942030
<brendand> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/208/builds/12727/testcases
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 942030 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "'Take a photo' preview pane not showing live preview" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/942030
<brendand> http://launchpad.net/bugs/942573
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 942573 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Network connections indicator not shown" [Undecided,Fix released]
<brendand> is in xubuntu, but marked against an ubuntu testcase??
<jibel> right, I saw that but didn't talk to primes2h yet
<jibel> on the image testing side, a tester reported a hang on the keyboard layout screen on the second stage of an OEM install
<jibel> I've been unable to reproduce, it be nice if we could have more testers to validate that if it is a local issue or not
<balloons> jibel, can we draft some of this up into a mail for the qa list? I'll also send a tweet on status
<jibel> apart from that, beta 1 should be released tomorrow, that's plenty of hours for more coverage
<jibel> balloons, ok
<balloons> thanks jibel!
<jibel> ..
<balloons> Alright, let's talk about flavors now
<balloons> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Flavor Updates
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu QA Meeting | Current topic:  Ubuntu Flavor Updates
<balloons> lubuntu first, how's that
<phillw> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/reports/bugs/938472
<phillw> We're all over it like a rash, this was caused by Â it's a change on GTK3 3.2.1 syntax and theme standards (I'm angry because of so many changes, they won't make any standard if it goes that way) and Unico 1.0.1 (some textures changes, too).
<phillw> Which pulled the rug from under lubuntu for a week.
<phillw> a rough patch is hoped for today, and then all the isos will need respinning.
<balloons> yikes
<phillw> IMHO, it was an epic fail via QA for this to happen. We had no warning nor information. Just black screens.
<balloons> alrighty. good luck, I'm looking at the screenshot of the issue
<balloons> thata's no fun.. and very vague as to what could be the issue
<phillw> so, the request is - is there any way to stop this in thre future?
<balloons> glad you isolated it
<phillw> our graphics guy is proud of his work and was gutted over it :(
<balloons> :-( that's no good at all
<balloons> I feel like the future for stopping this is doing more testing of key components before they entire the archive
<phillw> the only other thing to note is the ppc *may* not be working on G3 macs, but until we can actually install it's hard for our few testers to test :(
<balloons> I'll sidebar for a moment to mention this list: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/DesktopCriticalPackages
<brendand> o/
<balloons> sure, go ahead brendand
<brendand> is lubuntu being iso tested?
<brendand> in jenkins?
<balloons> I'm not sure phillw ? jibel?
<phillw> balloons: I know very little about jenkins
<jibel> balloons, we test ubuntu, but the code we use for testing is available if you want to run it on your own infrastructure
<jibel> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-server-iso-testing-dev/ubuntu-server-iso-testing/trunk
<balloons> brendand, do you feel like having jenkins on this would have helped in this case?
<balloons> is that the answer going forward?
<brendand> balloons, well it looks like an integration issue to me
<brendand> balloons, as in Gtk didn't break itself , it broke something else
<balloons> k, let;s move this discussion to the mailing list.. phillw it looks like there may be a way to improve QA for future
<phillw> thanks.
<balloons> i'm sure brendand and jibel will speak more about it there
<jibel> balloons, in this case, for ubuntu, we don't have tests that cover the rendering of the UI and similar defects are found with manual testing
<balloons> jibel, thanks for the info. it certainly depends on what your coverage is
<balloons> ok, how about kubuntu?
<jibel> but the plan is to be able to do this type of test with the next testing framework we are working on
<brendand> phillw - i have an idea to share. on the mailing list - if you can send a message to get things rolling
<Riddell> brendand: looking good for beta I think
<Riddell> we have kubuntu-active images yet but nobody has tested and almost certainly they don't do anything
<balloons> yes.. any thoughts on getting hardware to try those out? will they be a published image for 12.04, or just ?
<balloons> Riddell, thoughts on what will be happening with the kubuntu-active images?
<Riddell> balloons: it'll be a "tech preview" at best
<balloons> ok, makes sens
<Riddell> if we get it going that's nice, if not then we won't worry too much
<balloons> awesome.. anything else?
<balloons> alrighty, let's move on to ubuntu studio.. anyone about care to update us?
<balloons> no one about.. :-)
<balloons> how about edubuntu?
<balloons> lastly, any updates from xubuntu?
<balloons> heh.. kk.. Let's move on
<balloons> we've got alot to chat about
<balloons> [TOPIC] Other topics
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu QA Meeting | Current topic:  Other topics
<brendand> o/
<balloons> yes brendand ?
<brendand> ok
<brendand> manual testing
<brendand> balloons, love what you're doing with checkbox
<brendand> however
<brendand> the whole story around creating test cases is really messy
<brendand> we have a wiki, but it's not complete
<brendand> we have a spreadsheet, i'm not sure if that's complete
<brendand> we're looking at case conductor
<brendand> and now you can also submit jobs to checkbox
<brendand> (the checkbox-app-testing branch to be precise)
<balloons> brendand, yep your correct on all those things
<brendand> can the wiki die anytime soon?
<balloons> the wiki is not the long-term solution
<balloons> that was discussed last year afaik, and the decision to leave it was made then
<balloons> if not I would propose we go ahead and formally say so now ;-)
<brendand> balloons, yes but then as far as i can tell you're using the test cases as written on the wiki for the checkbox tests...
<brendand> am i wrong?
<balloons> I pulled the test cases we re-wrote as part of the spreadsheet rewrite project
<balloons> that is correct
<brendand> so they are *all* in the spreadsheet?
<balloons> all the checkbox testcases?
<balloons> not all all
<balloons> *not at all
<brendand> ok
<balloons> if you look the wiki has only maybe the nautilus and network manager tests copied unedited
<balloons> i took ideas from some of the others, but by and large, the wiki is pretty old and dead
<brendand> can we make the wiki read-only?
<brendand> (maybe it is already and i'm being a dum-dum)
<balloons> no, it's still editable.. I'm not sure the wiki can or can't be readonly
<balloons> if it can I would be ok with it
<phillw> it can be tagged as depreciated to encourage people NOT to update it.
<balloons> I would say we are at that point
<balloons> as far as the future, we are still looking for a test case management system
<balloons> in my post I outlined my thoughts about that.. i'll repeat them here, and see what you all think/feel
<brendand> also, banners saying "THIS WIKI IS DEPRECATED - SEE <Google Docs Link>"
<phillw> brendand: we can do that :)
<balloons> basically we need a test case mgmt system,  test case delivery system and a test case reporting system
<brendand> what happened with case conductor?
<balloons> right now, we have the wiki more or less as the mgmt system, nothing (we're trying out checkbox now) as the delivry system, and nothing (we're trying out lp and the results tracker) for the reporting system
<brendand> i'm biased, but checkbox is a good delivery system
<balloons> i have been focusing my efforts recently on getting this checkbox prototype up and running
<phillw> balloons: brendand we can chat on ML about a couple of systems the SII have tested out if it would help?
<brendand> launchpad-results may need an extra layer over it to be generally suitable
<balloons> and the case conductor folks have been working on pushing out the new release
<balloons> but we will prototype that as well
<balloons> phillw, yes that would be great
<brendand> balloons, if we wanted to start using case conductor tomorrow, what would the risks be?
<balloons> at this point I feel like we need a nicely intergrated workflow.. but all 3 needs must be met
<balloons> and I'm not biased as to what tools we use
<balloons> brendand, yes I agree results tracker if adopted would need more added to it
<balloons> brendand, if we started using cc tomorrow, no real risks other than we have to adopt it.. and at the moment we have no way of delivering those tests outside of using the web browser
<balloons> we may or may not like that delivery system
<brendand> but it's still miles ahead of a spreadsheet
<balloons> yes.. it is
<brendand> balloons, have you found out does it have an api for pulling testcases?
<balloons> everything in the spreadsheet is in checkbox tests now though
<balloons> brendand, I'm not sure on the api for pulling tests
<brendand> balloons, you've had meeting with the mozilla guys, right?
<balloons> i wasn't attempting to muddy the waters, but I know having checkbox tests does deprecate the other places we've been putting them
<balloons> brendand, yes I've met with the mozilla guys
<balloons> I intend to revisit case conductor within the next couple weeks
<balloons> probably next week
<brendand> so
<brendand> let's clarify all this
<balloons> they were supposed to have a release around early march
<brendand> i'm a contributor
<brendand> and i'm reading your page, so i go and right a testcase in checkbox and propose a merge
<brendand> the first thing you're going to tell me is 'can you write it up in this spreadsheet too'
<brendand> ?
<brendand> s/right/write/
<balloons> brendand, at this point I make no mention of updating a spreadsheet or wiki (nor have I attempted to myself)
<balloons> aka, the checkbox tests are standalone
<balloons> now, we could decide to deprecate all other tests and just go with the checkbox repo.. however I didn't want to do that, even tho short-term it means we have tests in 2 places (I was assuming the wiki would stay as-is for now as the repository of tests)
<balloons> the long term solution is something like case conductor, which I think we all agree with
<balloons> it's simply what do we do in the shortterm?
<brendand> i think there should be some attempt to keep the authoritative location for test cases and the execution tool in sync
<balloons> alright our time is expired.. I'll end the meeting.. can we continue this discussion in #ubuntu-testing?
<brendand> sure
<balloons> for those folks reading the logs we'll post to the ml a summary
<balloons> kk
<balloons> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Feb 29 18:00:19 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-29-17.03.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-29-17.03.html
<bdmurray> hi, time for the bug squad meeting
<bdmurray> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Feb 29 18:03:39 2012 UTC.  The chair is bdmurray. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<bdmurray> #topic Previous Actions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Previous Actions
<bdmurray> ACTION: put list of dbus no reply bugs into a wiki page and email bugsquad regarding list: bdmurray
<bdmurray> I've not done this yet, so will carry it over
<bdmurray> ACTION: investigate bug 827615: Ursinha
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 827615 in software-center (Ubuntu Precise) "software-center crashed with TypeError in show_available_packages(): this constructor takes no arguments" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/827615
<Ursinha> done
<bdmurray> done and fix released!
<s9iper1> thanks ursinha:
<Ursinha> fix was already committed when that bug was raised, they just released it :)
<Ursinha> no problem, they did all the dirty job!
<bdmurray> still good news
<Ursinha> indeed sir
<bdmurray> #topic Engineering Team Bug Status
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Engineering Team Bug Status
<bdmurray> Ursinha: any thing interesting?
<Ursinha> nothing that could be reported right now
<bdmurray> jsalisbury: anything on your side?
<bdmurray> not much from me, however I'm looking into an issue where apport-crash reports with python tracebacks are missing data
<bdmurray> for example bug 943340
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 943340 in Ubuntu "oneconf-query crashed with DBusException in call_blocking(): org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name :1.443 was not provided by any .service files" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/943340
<bdmurray> if you happen to report one of these I'm interested in the .crash file from the system in happened on too
<bdmurray> that'd be located in /var/crash
<bdmurray> #topic Bug Escalations (any High or Critical bugs that community members have seen that need attention)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bug Escalations (any High or Critical bugs that community members have seen that need attention)
<bdmurray> so are there any bugs that aren't getting the attention they deserve?
<bdmurray> okay nothing this week then
<bdmurray> #topic Other Topics
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Other Topics
<hggdh> \o
<bdmurray> any thing else to discuss?
<bdmurray> hggdh: yes?
<hggdh> I would like to officially welcome mfish as the newest Bug Control member
<bdmurray> hggdh: I saw that, that's great!
<hggdh> I do hope he keeps on helping!
<hggdh> ..
<bdmurray> oh Ursinha do you know what package I'd want to report a bug about for the login splash screen?  Is it lightdm or some theme?
<dlentz> bdmurray, are you getting a light purple screen? (i have that issue with 12.04, but i didn't know if it was because i'm using xubuntu)
<bdmurray> dlentz: no, I'm concerned about the text there '12.04' doesn't have LTS after it
<dlentz> oh, you mean plymouth splash screen?
<bdmurray> dlentz: no, I mean the one lightdm one where I log in
<dlentz> oh, ok, i guess i've only seen the xubuntu default
<bdmurray> well it looks like logo.png in the unity-greeter package
<bdmurray> anything else?
<bdmurray> okay, thanks everyone
<bdmurray> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Feb 29 18:23:19 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-29-18.03.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-29-18.03.html
<phillw> #startmeeting lubuntu meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Feb 29 20:00:36 2012 UTC.  The chair is phillw. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | lubuntu meeting Meeting | Current topic:
<phillw> Hi, Julien can't make it, so you'll have to put up with me again!
<phillw> #topic previous actions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | lubuntu meeting Meeting | Current topic:  previous actions
<phillw> There are no previous actions
<phillw> #topic show of hands of atendees
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | lubuntu meeting Meeting | Current topic:  show of hands of atendees
<rafaellaguna> hi (and glad to see you as chairman again, phillw)
<phillw> (oops)
<Unit193> /o\
<phillw> can those present please o/
<michael_rawson> \o/
<Yorvyk> o/
<phillw> or kick me
<moergaes> mÃ¶rgÃ¦s o/
<StephenSmally> o/ (?)
<phillw> okies, others can pipe up as and when they are here.
<phillw> #topic report from QA
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | lubuntu meeting Meeting | Current topic:  report from QA
<phillw> Right, please bear with me on this one. It will take a while.
<rafaellaguna> :)
<phillw> As you will all be aware, lubuntu is crawling over qa testing like a rash at http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/reports/bugs/938472
<phillw> bug 938472
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 938472 in lubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "dialogs are barely readable-- grey on black????" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/938472
<rafaellaguna> me -> angry
<phillw> The main discussion on QA tonight was how to prevent this ever happeneing again.
<rafaellaguna> yep, and prevent people two days trying to figure out what's happening
<phillw> to this end, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/DesktopCriticalPackages was pointed out.
<phillw> The discussion on QA is now taking place on the mailing list. Rafael & Julien are being cc'd developments
<phillw> please do bear in mind, that the QA meeting was only 3 hours ago.
<david_j_r> o/  (sorry - just registering late presence for archivak purposes!)
<phillw> The co-ordinator, and others on the QA team agree that this was a failure, a big failure in that something hit the archives without being fully checked.
<rafaellaguna> the package was changed in Ubuntu main repos
<phillw> I've just had an email from rafaellaguna, but I ask that he give you the latest that he has.
<rafaellaguna> I mean, if there're some filters for other packages, why some ones don't? because they look less critical, as they are art related
<phillw> rafaellaguna: imho, I don't think any one realised that they could completely bork a system.
<phillw> i was not aware of that lisy until tonights meeting.
<phillw> /s/lisy/list/
<rafaellaguna> @phillw: agree
<meetingology> rafaellaguna: Error: "phillw:" is not a valid command.
<rafaellaguna> phillw: agree
<phillw> The time for anger, is later. The $64,000 question, rafaellaguna, is can you overcome this?
<rafaellaguna> I'm working on a solution with our theme, I can't do aymore until they publish the changes
<rafaellaguna> or correct the bugs (making old themes syntax compatible)
<phillw> rafaellaguna: have you raised a bug against the packages?
<rafaellaguna> in the meantime we can go to Adwaita style, but imagine what means this for a designer like me
<rafaellaguna> nope
<phillw> can you do so. you are best placed to explain the bug.
<rafaellaguna> I need to collect some info from Unico and GTK before submitting a bug
<skaet> if there is a fix ready for this,   please ping me in the #ubuntu-release channel (or NCommander,Riddell) and we'll trigger respins for you.   Do you want to revert back to the prior version of the artwork for beta 1?
<rafaellaguna> but I'll do, and I'll contact with Andrea Cimitan
<rafaellaguna> skaet: the problem is not the theme, I have it working on Oneiric, even with the last modifications
<phillw> rafaellaguna: I assure you, that to the limit of politeness I used as strong phrases as I could to explain our feelings on having 7 days of ISO testing stopped, the additional work dropped on you with no prior warning etc.
<skaet> rafaellaguna, ok.
<rafaellaguna> phillw: that's no problem, we're here for that
<rafaellaguna> skaet: and obvioulsy they cannot revert to prior versions on GTK
<rafaellaguna> phillw: I'm sure about that :D
<phillw> rafaellaguna: well, it is a monumental fail, such a regression should not have gotten through. It did, now a solution has to be found.
<rafaellaguna> I think the best thing we can do is, for the beta launch, switch to a more compatible theme
<phillw> #action rafaellaguna raise bug for GTK and Unico
<meetingology> ACTION: rafaellaguna raise bug for GTK and Unico
<rafaellaguna> I hate it, but we need to read the screen :|
<phillw> rafaellaguna: sadly, yes.
<michael_rawson> very sad considering the work gone into the theme.
<phillw> rafaellaguna: any ideas on how long it will take to get a working prototype up and running?
<rafaellaguna> yes :(
<rafaellaguna> phillw: as Adwaita engine has changed too (more annoyances) I'll need a few days to study the new syntax
<phillw> okies rafaellaguna
<phillw> and just for our logs.. a quick copy - paste
<phillw> (17:19:01) phillw: IMHO, it was an epic fail via QA for this to happen. We had no warning nor information. Just black screens.
<phillw> (17:20:20) balloons: alrighty. good luck, I'm looking at the screenshot of the issue
<phillw> (17:20:34) balloons: thata's no fun.. and very vague as to what could be the issue
<phillw> (17:20:37) phillw: so, the request is - is there any way to stop this in thre future?
<phillw> (17:20:38) balloons: glad you isolated it
<phillw> (17:20:55) anjar_95 [~anders@3.79-160-53.customer.lyse.net] entered the room.
<phillw> (17:21:02) phillw: our graphics guy is proud of his work and was gutted over it :(
<phillw> (17:21:13) balloons: :-( that's no good at all
<rafaellaguna> but I already started to tweak Adwaita on my system, so I hope release a new theme in 3 or 4 days
<rafaellaguna> is it too late?
<phillw> rafaellaguna: it will not have to be.
<balloons> hello
<rafaellaguna> oh, btw, I have fresh news (1 min ago) that OpenSuse is habing the sme problem
<phillw> rafaellaguna: I've just asked balloons to join
<balloons> so, you know the issue, and the cause of the issue.. canyou link the bug again phillw ?
<phillw> rafaellaguna: I know it is repeating, but can you let balloons kniow what you're going to ned
<rafaellaguna> of course
<phillw> need
<rafaellaguna> him balloons
<phillw> bug 938472
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 938472 in lubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "dialogs are barely readable-- grey on black????" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/938472
<rafaellaguna> yep, but that bug should be redirected, lubuntu-artwork has not the problem
<phillw> rafaellaguna: that can be done :) I know it is not your fault. You were the one who found the problem from a messy bug report.
<rafaellaguna> I insist (for balloons :D) it's a "but" on GTK / Unico engine that makes old syntax incompatible, so it result in some black drawings
<rafaellaguna> "BUG"
<rafaellaguna> sincerely, I see my faults inmediatly when designing,  also that's frankbooth who first checks every piece I design
<phillw> balloons: rafaellaguna reckons 3 - 4 days before he has even a 'basic' theme going. In the meantime, the clock on testing is stuck & we end up with all that work trashed and a horrible desktop for a full member of the ubuntu familiy. It's not really acceptable?
<rafaellaguna> another thing, this bug makes Opera browser unsuable (it really quits the program), so they are really nervous and yuo know what's happening with Ubuntu confiability
<moergaes> I think everybody gets the point. No need to rub it in.
<phillw> this looks like a fairly critical bug?
<rafaellaguna> phillw: you can use the temporary theme I sent Julien while I'm working
<phillw> moergaes: au contraire.... the more information, the better.
 * balloons is reading the bug
<phillw> skaet: can you get that theme re-spun into the isos so we can at least re-start testing?
<skaet> phillw,  upload it,  I'll shepherd it through and respin for you after it builds/lands.
<StephenSmally> I don't want to be unencouraging, but we can also pick up a simple gtk2/3 theme from gnome-look or something if we haven't time
<phillw> rafaellaguna: can you make it available for skaet please? We really do need to have 'something' for testing. I know you hate it,
<balloons> phillw, rafaellaguna I agree.. something basic.. this isn't the final shipping version, so no worries on the basic theme
<skaet> After all the bits are in the archive,  its less than an hour to images.
<phillw> StephenSmally: I think most of those are also borked, rafaellaguna can confirm.
<rafaellaguna> stephen, the GTK2 part is working fine, it's just the GTK3 one. And the desktop uses in a 75% GTK2, so we can still use the lubuntu theme
<rafaellaguna> skaet: how can I send you the temporary theme?
<balloons> i haven't been following lxde closely enough.. I know xfce is swapping next version to gtk3.. is lxde?
<rafaellaguna> balloons: yes, we're moving to GTK3
<balloons> ok, and is that move happening this cycle?
<michael_rawson> I think it's a gradual process.
<rafaellaguna> no, there're too many dis-integrated apps, so we cannot do this in one shot
<skaet> rafaellaguna, we'll need to get a lubuntu developer to package it,  then I can help once he uploads to archive.  (gilir?)
<StephenSmally> is real slow, since the main part are blockec (libfm->pcmanfm)
<StephenSmally> *blocked
<rafaellaguna> skaet: I can make a new branch on lubuntu team
<StephenSmally> lxpanel is being rewrited in gtk3, so...
<balloons> thanks.. got it.. So yea, I think this is part of those migration pains.. The good news is gtk3 is nicer and lets you do more things. you just gotta get there.. patience is a virtue here.. slow and steady
<skaet> gilir, ^ can you help get the branch up to the archive.
<phillw> hopefully he will be available later.
<phillw> skaet: he usually chairs the meetings :)
<rafaellaguna> I like current chairman :)
<rafaellaguna> the usual procedure is packaging into my branch, then gilir can copy to archive
<skaet> phillw,  :)  okie.    I'll make sure to check in #ubuntu-release channel for a ping from him (or another developer able to do the upload) ever hour or so this evening.
<phillw> so, rafaellaguna can you wait to pounce on Julian and get the temp theme up so the re-spins can happen a.s.a.p.?
<rafaellaguna> yes
<phillw> hyperair: ping... Well, I can always hope :)
<hyperair> phillw: ?
<phillw> hyperair: can you get the temp theme uploaded>?
<hyperair> temp theme?
<phillw> hyperair: there was a change to GTK Unico which broke lubuntu theme, rafaellaguna has a temp fix, but needs a dev to get it uploaded so the iso's can be respun
<phillw> Julien is afk, and you are the only fully MOTU for lubuntu I know :)
<hyperair> okay, got a link?
<rafaellaguna> want one?
<hyperair> yes please
<rafaellaguna> wait...
<phillw> +only other
<rafaellaguna> hyperair: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/133108/lubuntu3b.tar.gz
<hyperair> er hang on, what source package is this?
<hyperair> i was kinda expecting a .dsc..
<rafaellaguna> hyperair: it's just Adwaita standard for the GTK3 part, leaving GTK2 intact
<rafaellaguna> hyperair: I thought you wanted the theme
<rafaellaguna> if you want the source branch I need a bit more time (tomorrow)
<hyperair> well you need me to upload something into the ubuntu archive...
<hyperair> and i can only upload source packages
<hyperair> so where's the source package?
<rafaellaguna> ok, let's do it via Launchpad
<hyperair> sure
<StephenSmally> well, i think you should create a new branch and put the pkg in the lubuntu ppa
<rafaellaguna> tomorrow
<hyperair> tbh, i'm bzr-averse
<hyperair> i'll gladly take a patch
<rafaellaguna> ok, I need to leave
<michael_rawson> bye!
<phillw> okies rafaellaguna
<rafaellaguna> so, tomorrow I'll push a new temp branch on lubuntu artwork team
<phillw> thanks rafaellaguna
<rafaellaguna> new information arrived just now about the solution, iI'll work on it during the day and hope it work
<rafaellaguna> confirmed: it seems an error  on GTK modules translating HEX colour codes
<rafaellaguna> it's already declared on bugzilla, and Gnome boys are aware of that
<rafaellaguna> see you tomorrow, guys :)
<phillw> well, the rest of the meeting should be fairly quick..... the only other QA issue was it seems the lubuntu-ppc version is not installing on G3 Macs, but this is held up slightly as we are missing the ability to test stuff.
<rafaellaguna> bye all
<phillw> Unit193: anything to report on IRC?
 * david_j_r Lubuntu punter thanks rafaellaguna for perseving.
<Unit193> Might be, but can't think of anything except the reminder of the upcoming session.
<phillw> there's nothing really of note from comms or support
<moergaes> Well, I have something
<moergaes> I believe that the new web site is getting ready to launch.
<phillw> moergaes: the floor is yours
<moergaes> Thanks
<moergaes> It is on www.whiteboar.info
<moergaes> Just need some minor work on the themes.
<moergaes> Shouldn't take long,
<phillw> I've seen it, it looks impressive (even though it does not render on Chrome)
<moergaes> That surprises me.
<moergaes> Works in Chromium.
<StephenSmally> seems good
<phillw> It's just one of logos' that has a problem, works fine in FFox, and I'm using an older Chrome.
<moergaes> Thanks.
<Unit193> Anything I test will be in FF12
<michael_rawson> works fine in chrome for me.
<moergaes> Please give it a spin, everybody.
<moergaes> (not necessarily now)
<phillw> michael_rawson: I'm on 7.0.517.44
<phillw> okies, thanks to the team who have taken a 'would like to get done' to actually getting it done!
<StephenSmally> moergaes: the pic in "Using" should be updated
<moergaes> Phill, are you the one managing the web hotel?
<michael_rawson> phillw - say what? IP address?
<david_j_r> was just going to make that point about the picture too
<moergaes> Thanks, noted.
<phillw> Chris is not about, I'm still working on getting a deffinitative answer on the use of the tags for the older duplicates and triplicates of wiki support pages.
<moergaes> phillw: Thanks for that :-)
<phillw> Hopefully it will be 2 minutes on QA next week and the rest of time for everything else.
<StephenSmally> Just another thing, wouldn't be better if the left pane was really on left? i mean, completely on the left?
<moergaes> We can always make small adjustments.
<phillw> As julien is not about, does any dev have anything to update us on the dev side of things?
<phillw> #topic any other business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | lubuntu meeting Meeting | Current topic:  any other business
<phillw> any one got something to add?
<phillw> okies, thanks to everyone who attended (and thanks to balloons for popping in).
<phillw> #topic next meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | lubuntu meeting Meeting | Current topic:  next meeting
<balloons> yvw phillw
<phillw> next meeting 20:00 UTC #ubuntu-meeting 7th March 2012
<phillw> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Feb 29 20:58:57 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-29-20.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-29-20.00.html
<michael_rawson> thanks phillw!
<s-fox> who is in here next? is this room free?
<phillw> s-fox: afaik, no one is after lubuntu
<phillw> we sometimes spill over.
<s-fox> okay phillw, the forum coucil are about to have a meeting :-)
<s-fox> thanks
<s-fox> Ping coffeecat , Iowan, cariboo907, Merk42, nothingspecial, hobgoblin, moergaes
<s-fox> and of course bodhizazen
<hobgoblin> o/
<s-fox> haha
<coffeecat> o/
<moergaes> mÃ¶rgÃ¦s o/
<s-fox> bodhizazen you want me to chair? i'm all set here
<phillw> s-fox: my apologies, I've just noticed that we had not booked our usual slot :(
<Merk42> o/ I guess?
<cariboo907> o/
<bodhizazen> =)
<nothingspecial> o/
<bodhizazen> s-fox: you going to chair ?
<s-fox> Can do
<phillw> btw phillw waves to s-fox ltns
<bodhizazen> Up to you, I assume you know how to use the bot ?
<Iowan> o/
<phillw> bodhizazen: ho boss :)
<s-fox> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Feb 29 21:02:29 2012 UTC.  The chair is s-fox. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<s-fox> [TOPIC] FC Members - division of labor
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: FC Members - division of labor
<s-fox> I think bodhizazen wants to rotate it
<bodhizazen> +1 to rotation
<s-fox> Anything more than that bodhizazen?
<bodhizazen> Identify who will do what next month
<s-fox> So, who wants to do the mailing list this month? I did it last month
<Iowan> I will!
<bodhizazen> OK, who wants to send the welcome message to new users ?
<s-fox> [ACTION] Mailing list = Iowan
<meetingology> ACTION: Mailing list = Iowan
<bodhizazen> And who will do the team report this month ?
<s-fox> I'll do the welcome message
<cariboo907> I'll do the message to new members
<cariboo907> to late :)
<bodhizazen> I will help you learn team reports, but I would like to rotate it
<s-fox> If you want it go ahead cariboo907
<Iowan> I'm still looking for pattern/uide for reports
<cariboo907> OK, thanks s-fox
<s-fox> [ACTION] Welcome message = cariboo907
<meetingology> ACTION: Welcome message = cariboo907
<bodhizazen> Iowan: It is very easy
<Iowan> Easy if you know how/what...
<s-fox> I'll help with the report if anyone wants
<Iowan> I keep fighting with Wiki login.
<s-fox> Done it before
<s-fox> Iowan me and you do it?
<bodhizazen> Iowan: there is a template, we can show you later
<Iowan> Works for me.
<cariboo907> Is tere a template for the welcome message too?
<cariboo907> there
<s-fox> [ACTION] Forum report = Iowan and s-fox
<meetingology> ACTION: Forum report = Iowan and s-fox
<bodhizazen> I will do Ubuntu membership this month
<s-fox> cariboo907 all you need do is change the send from field. dead easy
<s-fox> you just tend to see some spam replies cariboo907
<Iowan> Then await the spam replies???
<s-fox> >:)
 * Iowan slow again
<cariboo907> I've been dealing with some on the mailing list too
<bodhizazen> spam replies have fallen off =)
<s-fox> Would we all be prepared to agree we all 'muck in' with the rc, even though it is fairly quiet these days ?
<Iowan> I try...
<coffeecat> OK here.
<s-fox> We're averaging about 3 days between complaints, which isn't bad for a forum with 1.5 million members....
<cariboo907> I guess we just aren't trying hard enough :)
<s-fox> [ACTION] RC = Everyone
<meetingology> ACTION: RC = Everyone
<bodhizazen> It is the 3 strikes / anti trolling policy, it has paid off in spades
<s-fox> As an FYI to the rest of the council, I am now bug supervisor thingy on launchpad for the council
<Iowan> If it starts going unnoticed, we can assing/volunteer someone.
<bodhizazen> +1 Iowan
<Iowan> (assign...)
<s-fox> +1 Iowan
<s-fox> Any other duties I've missed?
<s-fox> IP bans?
<Iowan> probably...;)
<bodhizazen> Watch staff thread - Stuff that needs an admin ASAP
<s-fox> Who fancies monitoring the admin thread ?
 * coffeecat will
<s-fox> [ACTION] Admini thread = coffeecat
<meetingology> ACTION: Admini thread = coffeecat
<Iowan> Thanks to all for inserting the IP bans in numerical order...
<nothingspecial> Iowan,  ?
<bodhizazen> Iowan: If it gets messy - I sort them in a terminal =)
<cariboo907> I think the database does that, cause I just added them to the bottom of the list
<Iowan> I'm not yet that advanced
<s-fox> New topic time
<Iowan> They got moved cuz I moved 'em
<s-fox> [TOPIC] UF Banner community
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: UF Banner community
<michael_rawson> Hi, that's me.
<michael_rawson> I was told on this:
<michael_rawson> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1929888
<michael_rawson> thread to put that here.
 * bodhizazen looks
<s-fox> Hello overdrank :)
<s-fox> michael_rawson, okay please explain why we should change it periodically :)
<bodhizazen> I think it is a good idea, but I do not know how easy (or hard) it will be
<michael_rawson> Okay, I thought it would be a bit of fun for the community, for special events, and to give the forum a bit of a change every so often.
<bodhizazen> Once the forums are upgraded there is a ton of stuff like that to be done
<nothingspecial> I agree
 * bodhizazen changes the banner to gentoo
<s-fox> We do have another upgrade coming soon.
<michael_rawson> Well, I guess only as difficult as an admin with upload rights...but okay, wait until forums upgrade. Hehe, bodhi.
<michael_rawson> okay, that's me until forums upgrade. Thanks for having me!
<s-fox> I think having special milestone banner would be good :)
<michael_rawson> thank you, s-fox.
<s-fox> As a compromise, what if we agree that if it is easy to do then we should. For example we should hit 2m members later this year
<s-fox> Thoughts from the forum staff ?
<coffeecat> There's 1st April as well!
<Iowan> Pivit point will be difficulty - and who can do it.
<moergaes> Sounds like a good idea.
<nothingspecial> Personally, I would go further than that
<Merk42> Well April 1st it'll be a Windows 8 banner
<s-fox> We could get in bother for that Merk42
<hobgoblin> I like the idea
<bodhizazen> michael_rawson: Although we are admins on the forums, we do not have full access to the server
<moergaes> Just not change is as often as Google.
<Iowan> Windows 9?
<coffeecat> Windows 95? :/
<s-fox> bodhizazen we could speak with  the community council, sort of thing they might like to see
<michael_rawson> of course. Although *somebody* must have an ssh password.
<hobgoblin> moergaes: anything other than every other day then
<bodhizazen> yep
<s-fox> It doesn't hurt to ask. I can get in touch with rt if needed
<s-fox> [VOTE] If community council agree, periodically update forum banner for special occasions
<meetingology> Please vote on: If community council agree, periodically update forum banner for special occasions
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<Iowan> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Iowan
<s-fox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from s-fox
<coffeecat> +1
<overdrank> +0
<meetingology> +1 received from coffeecat
<meetingology> +0 received from overdrank
<cariboo907> +1
<Merk42> +1
<bodhizazen> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cariboo907
<meetingology> +1 received from Merk42
<meetingology> +1 received from bodhizazen
<moergaes> +
<moergaes> 1
<s-fox> overdrank
<moergaes> +1
<overdrank> waves
<meetingology> +1 received from moergaes
<s-fox> overdrank vote ;)
<hobgoblin> overdrank did
<michael_rawson> Wow, thanks folks.
<bodhizazen> s-fox: overdrank	+0
<Iowan> He did
<s-fox> oh wait, i see
<hobgoblin> :p
<s-fox> [END VOTE]
<bodhizazen> http://design.ubuntu.com/assets/ubuntu-logo
<s-fox> [ENDVOTE]
<meetingology> Voting ended on: If community council agree, periodically update forum banner for special occasions
<meetingology> Votes for:7 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1
<meetingology> Motion carried
<s-fox> Syntax is everything
<s-fox> haha
<bodhizazen> http://design.ubuntu.com/wp-content/uploads/ubuntu-white-and-orange-on-aubergine.gif
<s-fox> Who wants to contact the cc ?
<nothingspecial> congrats michael_rawson  :)
<s-fox> bodhizazen overdrank?
<michael_rawson> :)
<bodhizazen> Personally I would wait for upgrade, ask TV how easy / hard it will be, if hard -> rt with canonical
<s-fox> Okay, that sounds like a plan to me.
<overdrank> agree
<bodhizazen> http://design.ubuntu.com/wp-content/uploads/brand-extensions-2.gif
<michael_rawson> question: is there  a schedule for forum upgrades?
<s-fox> [ACTION] Pick this up after upgrade
<meetingology> ACTION: Pick this up after upgrade
<bodhizazen> michael_rawson: Yes, upgrade is due to be complete no later then 7/1/2000
<Iowan> which year?
<s-fox> michael_rawson we have another upgrade soon :-)  we had one during the week
<bodhizazen> and yes, that date is correct
<michael_rawson> bodhizazen: Okay, I get the point. :D
<Iowan> "
<bodhizazen> michael_rawson: It is a big database and we want a smooth transition, our inbox was filled with bug reports over the weekend, so it is in progress, but somewhat unpredictable
<s-fox> [TOPIC] Custom BBCodes
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Custom BBCodes
<michael_rawson> yup, appreciate what you're doing.
<s-fox> coffeecat, you're up
<coffeecat> Not much to add to http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1925310 OK to go ahead?
<s-fox> :)
<bodhizazen> +10000
<nothingspecial> +100001
<Iowan> that pretty much sez it
<cariboo907> +9000
<s-fox> Looks good, wait until after upgrade
<s-fox> :)
<overdrank> +00000
<coffeecat> I'm happy to wait until after upgrade.
<nothingspecial> +1
<s-fox> [ACTION] Custom BBCodes after upgrade
<meetingology> ACTION: Custom BBCodes after upgrade
<s-fox> [TOPIC] Outstanding Ubuntu Memberships (2)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Outstanding Ubuntu Memberships (2)
<nothingspecial> +1 to both
<s-fox> I think we all voted in the staff thread. I think we just need to formalise it
<bodhizazen> Just two ?
<coffeecat> Just two.
<bodhizazen> That is just sad
<coffeecat> lechien73 and josephmills.
<moergaes> How many members do we have in total?
<s-fox> Isn' the subforum closed at the minute to new requests ?
<coffeecat> I don't think so.
<nothingspecial> no
<nothingspecial> I think
<Iowan> Thought there were some apps that hadn't been processed
<nothingspecial> :/
<coffeecat> No - and I changed the wiki page to read rolling applications.
<s-fox> Okay, well either way we need to formalise the voting.
<hobgoblin> moergaes: there are 48 members via forum it seems
<s-fox> [VOTE] lechien73 for ubuntu membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: lechien73 for ubuntu membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<s-fox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from s-fox
<coffeecat> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from coffeecat
<Merk42> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Merk42
<overdrank> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from overdrank
<cariboo907> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cariboo907
<bodhizazen> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bodhizazen
<Iowan> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from Iowan
<s-fox> [ENDVOTE]
<meetingology> Voting ended on: lechien73 for ubuntu membership
<meetingology> Votes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1
<meetingology> Motion carried
<bodhizazen> |0?
<Iowan> Just unfamiliar...
<s-fox> [VOTE] josephmills for ubuntu membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: josephmills for ubuntu membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<overdrank> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from overdrank
<Iowan> +
<coffeecat> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from coffeecat
<cariboo907> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cariboo907
<Merk42> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Merk42
<bodhizazen> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bodhizazen
<s-fox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from s-fox
<s-fox> [ENDVOTE]
<meetingology> Voting ended on: josephmills for ubuntu membership
<meetingology> Votes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<s-fox> Who wants to sort launchpad / bean images out ?
<bodhizazen> I will add those two in, probably in a day or two
<s-fox> [ACTION] bodhizazen to sort new ubuntu  members out
<meetingology> ACTION: bodhizazen to sort new ubuntu  members out
<s-fox> [TOPIC] Reverse mjp29 ban
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Reverse mjp29 ban
<bodhizazen> Unless someone else wants to learn the ropes, in which case I will help
<bodhizazen> is mjp29 here ?
<s-fox> Iowan ?
<Iowan> I didn't think to send an invite.
<s-fox> Was it a ban in error, or user contesting the ban?
<bodhizazen> If mjp29 signs (gpg) the Ubuntu Code of Conduct I would allow him back on a trial basis
<Iowan> User sent mail to list
<Iowan> That was back in 2009
<s-fox> 2009/
<s-fox>  :o
<Iowan> Nasty reply - I'd rather be banned f... forever than be censored.
<Iowan> I was looking for page when I noticed time
<s-fox> Okay, I'd go with that. Personally I would leave banned after that kind of reply.
<bodhizazen> The user was trolling on the forums and requested a ban, lol
<overdrank> Since I was involved +0
<Iowan> Seems to have had change of heart - but wondered WHY he'd been banned.
<s-fox> Do we have a link to the infraction thread ?
<coffeecat> Sounds slightly disingenuous to wonder why
<Iowan> I'd thiink he would remember a statement like that.
<Iowan> We did. I was looking for it.
<overdrank> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1334693&highlight=mjp29
<s-fox> Thanks overdrank :)
<overdrank> :)
<coffeecat> That thread explains the 2 points but not the burnt beans.
<overdrank> Further down, I believe it was a private message to kiwi or I
<Iowan> As KiwiNZ put it - sounded like a request
<s-fox> seem kiwi granted a wish
<coffeecat> OK
<Iowan> Would it be pudent to invite him to next meting?
<s-fox> We could unburn, but leave user on strike 2
<s-fox> +1 invite
<bodhizazen> People change, but I would still insist on a gpg signed CoC =)
<s-fox> We can tell him that at the next meeting bodhizazen
<coffeecat> Agree with bodhizazen  about gpg signing.
<bodhizazen> Naw, just send a response and be done with it
<bodhizazen> This can be managed via email
<bodhizazen> IMO
<s-fox> [VOTE] Allow back on basis of gpg signed coc
<meetingology> Please vote on: Allow back on basis of gpg signed coc
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<cariboo907> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from cariboo907
<s-fox> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from s-fox
<Merk42> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from Merk42
<overdrank> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from overdrank
<Iowan> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from Iowan
<coffeecat> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from coffeecat
<bodhizazen> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bodhizazen
<bodhizazen> lol
<s-fox> [ENDVOTE]
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Allow back on basis of gpg signed coc
<meetingology> Votes for:1 Votes against:1 Abstentions:5
<meetingology> Deadlock, casting vote may be used
<Iowan> AI get to decide
<s-fox> +1 AI
<s-fox> But will that change anything?
<s-fox> Even if AI +1s majority are still +0
<Iowan> Nt with a +0
<bodhizazen> +0 means go with AI =)
<s-fox> [ACTION] Leave it  up to AI to decide
<meetingology> ACTION: Leave it  up to AI to decide
<Iowan> Metingology would have 2 -1 = passed
<s-fox> ;)
<s-fox> Okay,think that is it \o/
<overdrank> Thanks s-fox
 * cariboo907 says thanks too
<s-fox> We still need a formal chair for fc
<overdrank> me +1 for bodhizazen
<cariboo907> +1 for s-fox
<s-fox> I do not mind chairing, it's fun
<s-fox> bodhizazen ?
<bodhizazen> co-chair ? chair and vice-chair ?
<bodhizazen> lol
<overdrank> woohoo that works
<s-fox> Our intention is to alternate the meeting times. some are going to  be better for me , some are going to be better for you
<s-fox> Whoever it works best for on the day can be the chair
<cariboo907> +1 for what bodhizazen  said
<s-fox> agree?
<nothingspecial> +1 split
<Iowan> +1 co-chair
<s-fox> For example, I missed start of last meeting because it was at 05:00 am for me
<bodhizazen> In the "good old days" there was always 2 - matthew and UG, and IMO that was best, more balanced, less dictatorial
<s-fox> Okay.
<s-fox> [VOTE] bodhizazen and s-fox to co-chair
<meetingology> Please vote on: bodhizazen and s-fox to co-chair
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<s-fox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from s-fox
<cariboo907> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cariboo907
<overdrank> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from overdrank
<coffeecat> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from coffeecat
<Merk42> +!
<Merk42> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Merk42
<Iowan> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Iowan
<s-fox> [ENDVOTE]
<meetingology> Voting ended on: bodhizazen and s-fox to co-chair
<meetingology> Votes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<bodhizazen> +0
<s-fox> Thank you
<bodhizazen> lol
<s-fox> lol
<s-fox> sorry bodhizazen
<bodhizazen> np
<bodhizazen> That was the fastest vote in the west
<s-fox> Okay, i think we are done....
<Iowan> I will continue emailing  mjp29 - if he refuses CoC, decision becomes easier.
<s-fox> anything else ?
<overdrank> No good day all
<bodhizazen> I think that is a great idea Iowan
<s-fox> +1 Iowan
<bodhizazen> o/
<bodhizazen> Update on forums upgrade ?
<s-fox> Okay, ending the  meeting.
<s-fox> bodhizazen It is in scc
<s-fox> Thank you all for coming, great turnout
<s-fox> :)
<bodhizazen> Yea, but I was thinking a public update, ie minutes of this meeting, up to you
<michael_rawson> s-fox "scc"?
<bodhizazen> Just don't tell them about the super secret server =)
<bodhizazen> doh -)
<s-fox> michael_rawson staff discussion area away from prying eyes ;)
<michael_rawson> kk. ;) I didn't hear that.
<nothingspecial> :)
<Iowan> SCC=Steering Column Cover  at work...
<s-fox> Okay, to the room in general: The upgrade is happening soon, though we don't have an exact timeframe
<nothingspecial> \o/
<s-fox> Right, ending the  meeting...
<s-fox> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Feb 29 21:57:53 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-29-21.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-29-21.02.html
<coffeecat> Thanks s-fox
<s-fox> With 1 min to spare because am epic
<Iowan> It's snowing outside
<michael_rawson> you're all epic. Thanks for having me guys. bye!
<s-fox> It's dark outside....
<bodhizazen> thanks all
<moergaes> Thanks for now. Bye!
<s-fox> Thank you all for coming
<s-fox> bodhizazen can you copy the meeting links? my tablet is playing up
<s-fox> Managed to grab it,  nvm bodhizazen =)
<bodhizazen> OK, thanks
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-03-01
<dholbach> hello
<czajkowski> aloha
<czajkowski> Gwaihir: pleia2 akgraner
<Gwaihir> o/
<YokoZar> Good day everyone
<czajkowski> YokoZar: aloha
 * pleia2 waves
<czajkowski> chair?
<YokoZar> #startmeeting Community Council
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Mar  1 17:06:14 2012 UTC.  The chair is YokoZar. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Community Council Meeting | Current topic:
<YokoZar> Greetings everyone, not much on the agenda today, just the Loco Council checkup.  Do we have someone from the Loco Council here?
<xdatap1> o/
<czajkowski> and SergioMeneses
<SergioMeneses> hi guys!
<czajkowski> 3 of us here
<YokoZar> Fantastic
<dholbach> nice :)
<dholbach> how are you all doing?
<Gwaihir> hello folk!
<Gwaihir> s/folk/folks
<YokoZar> #topic Loco Council Checkup
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Community Council Meeting | Current topic:  Loco Council Checkup
<xdatap1> let's break the ice :)
<czajkowski> thanks for coming folks
<YokoZar> So, what I like to get most from these CC-checkups is anything that currently seems like a hangup in process or communication that we can help with :)
<YokoZar> Especially anything that might become a sort of looming problem due to things like scale
<dholbach> What is your general gut feeling of how the LoCo Council running right now? I think some of you joined the LC just a few months ago
<czajkowski> so the council had some new people on it this year
<czajkowski> and that has taken some time to get used to things given the last council was in office for 2 years
<Gwaihir> xdatap1, SergioMeneses, since you are new in the LC, want to share something? your experience so far?
<czajkowski> and it's taken some time to get the new people up to spead on things and still we have new stuff we encounter and have to deal with
<xdatap1> Gwaihir, sure
<xdatap1>  I consider myself still a LoCo Council newbie. I'm still get my feet wet
<xdatap1> things are going quite well afaik
<SergioMeneses> I really like work with LC, they are a great group!
<xdatap1> we had montly meetings and we met in google plus with audio/vido
<xdatap1> that makes things easy
<czajkowski> aye we are trying to immprove our communication so weekly meetings on G+ is good I think
<pleia2> great
<SergioMeneses> this make the work more easy
<ScottK> Doesn't that hurt transparency?  There's no public archive if it's on G+.
<xdatap1> we reviewed 4 loco team since january,  3 of them have been approved
<czajkowski> ScottK: it's more to help the new people get up to speed and just talk things through.
<ScottK> OK.
<xdatap1> ScottK, yep true, irc meetings are better for that point of view. We used G+ for brainstorming an improvement on a document, btw. so, nothing that keep secret :)
<czajkowski> ScottK: given work and timezones mid week it's just harder to get to talk and bond tbh
<dholbach> Is reapprovals what you spend most of your time on?
<ScottK> Sure.  It's not like all communication needs to be done in public, but it's worth considering.
<Gwaihir> xdatap1, SergioMeneses, czajkowski, LC process wise, do you think there is something to improve, everything works smoothly? documentation to be written or reviewd? I'm referring in particular to the review of the approval wiki page
<czajkowski> dholbach: so each cycle differs, this cycle not so mcuh, we only have 8, last cycle the LC had 26
<greg-g> ScottK: totally agree.
<xdatap1> dholbach, if we're talking the meeting time, yes. if we consider the whole time, not really.
<dholbach> What else do you spend a lot of time on? Is there anything anybody else could help with?
<czajkowski> getting things done a bit faster or improving feedback but I think with the new G+ hangouts will help
<SergioMeneses> dholbach, I think that every help or point of view is important.. always we can work quietly
<xdatap1> yes, I agre with czajkowski: if we keep meeting often we can deal with everything
<YokoZar> Could you give me a vague sense of the turnaround time for loco-council related business?
<YokoZar> eg, is most stuff resolved by the next meeting?
<czajkowski> YokoZar: sometimes tbh, but it could be stuff only happens the week before which isn't ideal tbh
<xdatap1> many stuff are resolved in a day, btw. Launchpad tasks, responding to RT
<xdatap1> things like improving a document needs more time, btw
<czajkowski> nods
<czajkowski> xdatap1: good way to explain it
<xdatap1> and they can't be done quickly
<czajkowski> nods
<xdatap1> from my point of view, we're not in the highest peak of work at moment, am I right czajkowski ?
<czajkowski> xdatap1: nope it's a quieter cycle compared to others, which is good as it gives people a chance to get to know one another and learn
<czajkowski> we have a great helpful factoid in the locoteams channel
<czajkowski> so more people can find us which has been useful tbh
<pleia2> yeah, I see it used a fair amount :)
<czajkowski> yup amd I'm really glad it's there
<czajkowski> I'd like to see it elsewhere as it would help people to mail the council rather than one person tbh
<czajkowski> we do have loco council on highlight
<SergioMeneses> we are doing a good work! we take our time as xdatap1 says... LocoGettingApproved is a great document and we are trying to make it better
<dholbach> I think I recall a fair amount of conflict resolution in the past - or more generally helping LoCos to improve - is that still a major part of your work?
<xdatap1> no since I've been appointed. I've never discussed a conflict resolution
<xdatap1> so, after UDS
<xdatap1> we're in a peaceful time :)
<czajkowski> dholbach: again it varies tbh, not so far this cycle tbh
<Gwaihir> looks like a healthy LC :)
<SergioMeneses> Gwaihir, ty
<dholbach> In your point of view: Is there anything which, in an ideal world, would be even better? Anything which would make LoCo teams happier and you happier as well?
<xdatap1> IMHO what we just need is to know each other better and work together more to be more cohesive. From my personal point of view just to take confidence with these new tasks
<czajkowski> +1
<xdatap1> dholbach, fixing the bug #1 maybe?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1 in Ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<dholbach> haha :-)
<Gwaihir> :-)
<SergioMeneses> :O
<pleia2> thanks for coming :)
<xdatap1> thanks to you for your time guys
<dholbach> thanks for the great work you're doing
<SergioMeneses> CC ty for your time!
<czajkowski> :)
<dholbach> I just looked at http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/global/1443/detail/ and it's great to see HOW many different teams from all over the place participate
<Gwaihir> thanks all for your great work!
<dholbach> most of the places look like places where I should go next for holidays :-P
<xdatap1> dholbach, consider that Italy will have two global jam :)
<dholbach> xdatap1, taken into account :)
<Gwaihir> there's none in France...
<Gwaihir> well... I will take part at the Italian one, but from France, does it count? :-)
<YokoZar> I'm sure both the Italians and the French will count you
<xdatap1> :)
<dholbach> I've run out of questions :)
<czajkowski> :D
<YokoZar> Very well thn
<YokoZar> #topic Public Comment
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Community Council Meeting | Current topic:  Public Comment
<YokoZar> Anything for the CC to discuss not on the agenda?
<czajkowski> nope all good
<Gwaihir> nope, nothing else from me
<czajkowski> thank you for coming folks
<YokoZar> #topic Fixed Agenda
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Community Council Meeting | Current topic:  Fixed Agenda
<YokoZar> All right, volunteers for team reports, wiki page, next chair, etc.
<Gwaihir> I chair next time
<YokoZar> #action Gwaihir to chair next meeting
<meetingology> ACTION: Gwaihir to chair next meeting
<YokoZar> Can you update the meeting log/wiki page too?
<pleia2> I can take care of that
<YokoZar> #action pleia2 to update meeting log and wiki pages
<meetingology> ACTION: pleia2 to update meeting log and wiki pages
<YokoZar> Final thing is for someone to remind the America's board
<YokoZar> about the next meeting
<pleia2> I'll take care of that (I'm on the board)
<YokoZar> I was waiting for that ;)
<czajkowski> sweet
<pleia2> :)
<YokoZar> #action pleia2 to remind herself to attend next meeting :)
<meetingology> ACTION: pleia2 to remind herself to attend next meeting :)
<pleia2> hehe
<pleia2> it is worth mentioning that a lot of membership boards have a number of members retiring in May
<pleia2> so we should think of questions with that in mind
<YokoZar> Ok, that seems to be all of the agenda then
<YokoZar> #topic Bonus CC Meeting Time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Community Council Meeting | Current topic:  Bonus CC Meeting Time
<YokoZar> Thank you folks for coming, thank you for volunteering, and thank you for contributing to Ubuntu!
<YokoZar> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Mar  1 17:50:18 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-01-17.06.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-01-17.06.html
<PvandeWyngaerde> is it possible to get a meetingbot for meeting logs on our own channel ?
<MrChrisDruif> !bots
<ubottu> Hi! I'm #ubuntu-meeting's favorite infobot, you can search my brain yourself at http://ubottu.com/factoids.cgi | Usage info: http://ubottu.com/devel/wiki/Plugins | Bot channels and general info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Bots
<MrChrisDruif> PvandeWyngaerde; I think you can contact AlanBell to let meetingology on to your own channel (your Ubuntu LoCo I presume?)
<PvandeWyngaerde> ok
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-03-02
<Daviey> Welcome to Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Release Team meeting.
<ScottK> \o
<Daviey> skaet: are we cooking?
<mdeslaur> \o
 * ScottK wonders if skaet slept in today.
<Daviey> ScottK: keep wondering like that, and you mind end up volunteering to chair in her absence :)
<ScottK> I do mind.  Busy with $WORK.
 * ScottK suggests mdeslaur.
<skaet> sorry,  pattern was meeting wasn't going to happen after release
<skaet> should have removed from calender
 * mdeslaur is relieved to see skaet
<Riddell> hi
<ScottK> We all love meetings so much.
<Riddell> skaet: so meeting next week in new format?
<skaet> Thanks Daviey, ScottK, mdeslaur, arosales for showing up.   Updates and questions to the list today.
<skaet> Riddell,  yes next week meeting in new format.
<arosales> skaet: ok, thanks. Have a good weekend :-)
<mdeslaur> thanks!
<skaet> Have a good weekend!
<arosales> skaet: Thanks again for pulling all the beta release information together.
<skaet> thanks
<Riddell> ah arosales, you're missing a wiki page
<skaet> and thanks to Riddell for getting all those images coralled and out the door.
<skaet> :)
<arosales> Riddell: which wiki page is that?
<Riddell> arosales: the one linked to from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseManifest
<Riddell> so we know who you are :)
<arosales> ah, gotcha
<Daviey> Riddell: lets retract the release!
<arosales> Riddell: I'll get that updated
<arosales> Riddell: Thanks for pointing that out.
<Riddell> Daviey: now now, no need to be harsh.  just no beta 2 release for cloud unless he does it :)
<arosales> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DavieyWalker also not found
<Daviey> Riddell: heh
<arosales> looks like it needs to be updated to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/davewalker
<Riddell> ooh, no server release either
<Daviey> arosales: You can't hide your lack of organisation by trying to group your poor merit onto others. :)
<arosales> Daviey:  I was actually going to see what you had in your profile to template into mine.
 * scott-work notices that meeting is not happening and walks away whistling
<arosales> Riddell: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JasonWarner also not found
<arosales> :-)
<Daviey> arosales: I was pulling your leg.. :).. TBH, they probably all need a refresh
<skaet> thanks for checking in scott-work.   have a good weekend.
<skaet> arosales,  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RobbieWilliamson is a good template to use as a starting point.
<arosales> Riddell: and of course https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JohnathanRiddell
<arosales> no found ;-)
<ScottK> arosales: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JonathanRiddell
<Daviey> robbiew: your wiki page seems slightly out of date aswell..
<Daviey> you still manage Keybuk it seems :)
 * skaet notes hers needs a scrub too.... 
<ScottK> Daviey: It's a wiki.  Make the boss look good.
<Daviey> ScottK: I'll delegate that.
<arosales> Scottk: yes, the links off of  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseManifest is what I was referring to.
<robbiew> Daviey: bah...in away, I still do
<robbiew> lol
<robbiew> thx
<ScottK> arosales: Then it's a typo in the manifest that needs fixing.
<Daviey> lol
<Daviey> ScottK: Oh i see, when it's me - it's a mistake... but someone else, it's a typo in the manifest.
<skaet> ScottK +1
<Daviey> anyway, redirects for me now set. :)
<skaet> :)
<ScottK> Daviey: No, I just didn't read that part of the scrllback very closely.
<skaet> Riddell, scott-work - could you please review (update as needed) and sign off on the release manifest for Kubuntu and Ubuntu Studio,  while its nice and topical?
<skaet> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseManifest
<scott-work> skaet: aye, aye :)
<skaet> thanks scott-work :)
<scott-work> skaet: hopefully we get technical board approval for LTS status (as soon as they schedule the next meeting)
<skaet> scott-work,  put what it is now,  and after the tech board meeting we can update and resign-off.  (revision logs are useful things, :) )
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-03-04
<len> Now I found it..
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-02-25
<jdstrand> hi!
<jjohansen> o/
 * sbeattie waves
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Feb 25 18:02:18 2013 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I hope to push thunderbird out today
<jdstrand> there is a firefox regression so might have that to do this week and chromium-browser needs an update, so will be following up with chad on that
<jdstrand> I plan to go through our blueprints this week too
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm on community this week
<mdeslaur> and am working on some updates
<jdstrand> (oh yes, I am on triage)
<mdeslaur> I need to take a look at the new touch sdk
<mdeslaur> and I'll continue going down the updates list
<mdeslaur> that's it from me...sbeattie, you're up
<sbeattie> I'm focused again on apparmor this week
<sbeattie> It'll be more work items for me.
<sbeattie> Which is pretty much it; tyhicks?
<tyhicks> I'm working on an embargoed item and then I'm trying to get the apparmor query interface patches to the kernel and libapparmor (which still need a bit of work) out to the mailing list for review
<tyhicks> Short week for me. Off Thu and Fri.
<tyhicks> I also need to get a small stack of eCryptfs kernel fixes sent out in a pull request before we get too late into the merge window
<tyhicks> That's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> I am working on fixing an issue with apparmor stacking when the stacked profiles split across different namespaces, and hopefully I'll get back to the socket labeling to integrate and test with the dbus patches
<jjohansen> thats it for me, sarnold you are up
<sarnold> I'm in the happy place this week, though the term is relative as I'm still working on jj's patch 19 (rcu)
<sarnold> I'm roughly 50% of the way through the text of the patch, so hopefully that means the end is in sight :D
<sarnold> that's it for me, back to jdstrand :)
<mdeslaur> sarnold: let me know when you're done, I'd like you to look at the python-django CVEs
<jdstrand> tyhicks (and/or jjohansen): will you be uploading a raring kernel to the dbus ppa soon?
<tyhicks> jdstrand: I will
<mdeslaur> sarnold: if you run out of things to review before the end of the week
<tyhicks> I'll work on that in the background today
<jdstrand> tyhicks: thanks
<sarnold> mdeslaur: aha, you anticipated my question well :D
<mdeslaur> hehe
 * jjohansen laughs at sarnold's hopefully there's an end in sight. Noting that he is on 19 and the queue is well past 50
<sarnold> I picked a bad day to stop huffing glue
<jdstrand> on that note
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/xine-ui.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/ccid.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/dracut.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/exif.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/sanlock.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Feb 25 18:18:33 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-02-25-18.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-02-25-18.02.html
<jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, tyhicks, jjohansen, sarnold: thanks!
<sarnold> thanks jdstrand :)
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand
<jjohansen> thank jdstrand
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks!
<bdrung> !dmb-ping
<ubottu> bdrung, cody-somerville, Laney, micahg, barry, tumbleweed, stgraber: DMB ping
<bdrung> DMB meeting in 45 mins
<tumbleweed> ah, hi
<stgraber> I'll be there
<LoganPhone> Hey. :)
<bdrung> !dmb-ping
<tumbleweed> ubottu?
<micahg> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Feb 25 19:03:45 2013 UTC.  The chair is micahg. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<micahg> welcome to the DMB fortnightly meeting
 * stgraber waves
<Logan_> Hey. :)
<micahg> #topic review previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: review previous action items
<micahg> #subtopic Micah to announce the poll results
<micahg> not yet, will do after the meeting
<micahg> #subtopic Iain to do the paperwork for the kernel PPU team delegation
<micahg> as Laney is absent, we'll carry this forward as I don't see anything for it yet
<micahg> #topic MOTU Applications
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: MOTU Applications
<micahg> first up, wendar
<wendar> hi
<micahg> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AllisonRandal/MOTU
<ScottK> \o
<micahg> wendar: please introduce yourself
<ScottK> dmb ping needs to be updated
<micahg> ScottK: ubottu was offline :)
<wendar> Not sure what to put in an introduction. I'll go with: Hi, I'm Allison Randal, I've been involved in Ubuntu in various ways since 2005.
<wendar> I am an upstream developer on the Parrot project, so have always paid close attention to those packages.
<wendar> But, mostly see Ubuntu as an integrated whole system. (And from that perspective, parrot plays a very small part.)
<wendar> My packaging work is often in the area of battling complicated failures in C or Perl packages.
<wendar> With a few Python packages mixed in.
<wendar> I mostly avoid Java. :)
<wendar> end-of-intro
<tumbleweed> wendar: hi, yeah, just been looking through some of your recent uploads
<tumbleweed> and https://launchpadlibrarian.net/87347747/syncmaildir_1.2.2-1_1.2.2-1ubuntu1.diff.gz caught my eye
<tumbleweed> was that forwarded upstream? it's useful to add DEP-3 headers indicating things like that
<tumbleweed> I see the upstream is essentially the debian maintainer, but I see no bug in the BTS
<wendar> That was a while ago now, so I don't actually remember if I forwarded that one upstream.
<wendar> Most of the fixes I made that month I did push up to Debian.
<tumbleweed> ok, in that case this might be a reminder to bounce it to the Debian maintainer :)
<wendar> It's possible I forgot on that one, or that it's already been integrated and closed.
<wendar> I'll make a note and follow up on it.
<tumbleweed> so any ideas on making sponsorship less painful?
<wendar> I'm not sure it is painful for newbies.
<bdrung> the build fix is not integrated in the Debian, yet
<wendar> But, for me I think it boils down to 1) limited time from sponsors, and 2) I tend to work in areas that are quite complex C code, and not all sponsors can even understand the fixes.
<tumbleweed> hah
<micahg> well, if the patch is accepted upstream, it makes it easier for a sponsor
<wendar> Following a normal progression, where you're new, and mostly work on typos and such, I think it's likely that you'd find plenty of ready sponsors.
<barry> wendar: i wonder if patch pilots help much here or whether pilots tend to avoid complicated code in areas they don't know well
<wendar> micahg: Yes, my conclusion over the past couple of months is that just working straight in Debian is often the right answer. Even if I found the problem through an Ubuntu FTBFS.
<micahg> right, Debian or further upstream (if it exists)
<wendar> barry: Patch pilots help enormously with the common case. But, perhaps not with more "advanced" sponsorship needs.
<bdrung> i assume that it's not hard to find a sponsor for a patch that was accepted upstream
<bdrung> even if the patch is complicated
<wendar> bdrung: If it's not critical, I usually just leave the Debian fix to flow through to Ubuntu through normal means.
<wendar> bdrung: So, yes, no effort at all :)
<micahg> well, probably depends if there's an Ubuntu diff already or not and how different the package is on our platform
<wendar> micahg: Fortunately, I find that most universe packages are very close to Debian.
<micahg> well, I think we're a tad over 75%
<wendar> (At least, in personal experience, I've never done a full package scan.)
<micahg> https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe-now.png
<tumbleweed> ^ I see Logan_ has been busy
<tumbleweed> wendar: you are subscribed to ubuntu-devel-announce?
 * ScottK has no questions.
<wendar> micahg: sweet!
<Logan_> :P
<tumbleweed> wendar: and I assume we don't need to quiz you about the release schedule
<wendar> tumbleweed: I think so...
<wendar> tumbleweed: ah, yes, I filter it into the ubuntu-devel folder
<tumbleweed> good. it's suprising how many applicants aren't
<bdrung> wendar: there are only 13 uploaded packages listed on launchpad. most of your contribution doesn't seem to be visible there.
<wendar> tumbleweed: :) we could get into a conversation about whether skipping alphas has been helpful, but that might be distracting
<micahg> wendar: I've noticed limited activity in sponsored uploads aside from the +1 stint in 2011, can you speak to that point?
<wendar> micahg: yes, I've been thinking about that since January
<wendar> micahg: it basically boils down to "project benefit for time spent"
<wendar> micahg: There are many areas I can contribute. And packaging is one I'm very good at.
<wendar> Especially around nasty C/Perl failures.
<wendar> But, when I spend 4 hours fixing a problem, and then 1-2 weeks getting the fix approved, it makes me wonder if that's the best use of my time.
<wendar> And frankly, frustrates me to the point that I avoid it.
<wendar> I can't say I'm proud of that fact, but it is a fact.
<wendar> In Dec 2011 I had a dedicated sponsor, and zipped through a stack of tricky packages.
 * ScottK completely understands.  I have had the same issue with trying to fix Ubuntu docs.
<micahg> well, surely in most cases, the fix can be forwarded to Debian and then have  a sync requested to pull it in (otherwise, pinging the patch pilot if you need something to go in can be helpful)
<micahg> I can certainly understand the frustration, but "sponsored" contributions are standard before any type of "commit" rights are given
<wendar> Sure, but going through Debian is the "well, maybe it'll get applied, eventually" kind of fix.
<ScottK> It's the same problem actually just substitute maintainer for sponsor
<wendar> micahg: Indeed, and I think that natural progression is the right path.
<bdrung> does it really take so much time to get the fix in? letting the patch sit in the sponsoring queue doesn't consume time.
<micahg> and saying that one doesn't like the process and avoiding it for that reason doesn't seem right as most of us did have to go through that same process to get upload rights
<wendar> micahg: I think that if you compress my "sponsored" uploads over the past 6 years, they add up to about what would be reasonable for an upload application.
<micahg> I see 12 here: http://ubuntu-dev.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu-sponsorships.cgi?render=html&sponsor=&sponsor_search=name&sponsoree=allison+randal&sponsoree_search=name
<wendar> micahg: I suspect most contributors would do that in 6 months, and then apply.
<micahg> compared to our next applicant (who's number is a bit high) http://ubuntu-dev.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu-sponsorships.cgi?render=html&sponsor=&sponsor_search=name&sponsoree=logan+rosen&sponsoree_search=name
<bdrung> so you can get 13 patches into the archive in four days
<wendar> Logan_: well done!
<Logan_> Thanks. :)
 * ScottK thinks numbers are not very relevant.
<wendar> michag: Sorry, was that a question?
<micahg> #voters micahg ScottK stgraber Laney bdrung barry tumbleweed
<meetingology> Current voters: Laney ScottK barry bdrung micahg stgraber tumbleweed
<ScottK> +1
<tumbleweed> ScottK: not quite yet
<micahg> ScottK: hold on :)
<ScottK> OK
<micahg> #vote Please vote on Allison Randal (wendar) becoming MOTU
<meetingology> Please vote on: Please vote on Allison Randal (wendar) becoming MOTU
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<ScottK> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from ScottK
<barry> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from barry
<stgraber> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
<tumbleweed> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from tumbleweed
<bdrung> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bdrung
<micahg> +0 I would've liked more varied contributions beforehand
<meetingology> +0 I would've liked more varied contributions beforehand received from micahg
<micahg> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Please vote on Allison Randal (wendar) becoming MOTU
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1
<meetingology> Motion carried
<micahg> wendar: congratulations
<Logan_> wendar: Congrats!
<ScottK> wendar: Congratulations.
<stgraber> for the record, Laney also gave a +1 by e-mail
<wendar> thanks :)
<barry> wendar: congrats!
<tumbleweed> congrats
<stgraber> wendar: congrats!
<bdrung> welcome wendar
<micahg> #subtopic Logan Rosen's MOTU application
<micahg> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoganRosen/MOTUApplication
<micahg> Logan_: please introduce yourself
<Logan_> Hey guys. I'm Logan Rosen, and I've been contributing to Ubuntu for a while now. I mostly work on bug triaging (as part of the Bug Squad), merging packages in from Debian, requesting syncs, and merging in new upstream releases of packages to Ubuntu.
<Logan_> I applied for MOTU from the encouragement of a sponsor, who thought that my numerous contributions/sponsored changes were substantial enough to be a MOTU.
 * ScottK thinks that's a very good reason to apply.
<Logan_> Being a MOTU would allow me to push fixes to packages more quickly and reduce deltas between Ubuntu and Debian as much as possible, which is what I already do through sponsorship.
<Logan_> I really enjoy working with people in the Ubuntu community, and they have all been very encouraging and helpful. Whenever I have a question, I can count on someone being on IRC to help me out.
<tumbleweed> Logan_: I see you've been taking an interest in our ubuntu-only packages
<tumbleweed> any ideas on how we can get other people to do so? they are often terribly unde-maintained
<Logan_> I have - I feel that those are sometimes neglected (hence the neglected Ubuntu-only packages report on ubuntuwire).
<tumbleweed> glad someone finds it useful
<Logan_> I'm not sure exactly how to engage people in maintaining Ubuntu-only packages, but one way would be to publicize that report more, so that people see the packages that are left behind in the dust.
<Logan_> At one point, I was going through a bunch of them and checking lintian for warnings/errors and fixing them accordingly - just one way to ensure package quality.
<tumbleweed> hrm, so maybe providing reports on these packages is working to draw attention to them
<tumbleweed> Logan_: what's happening with https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lxsession-edit ?
<micahg> UEHS is nice
<tumbleweed> err I meant https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lxsession-edit/0.2.0-3ubuntu1
<Logan_> Ah, yes. The issue is that I didn't realize at the time that lxsession-edit is provided by the lxsession source package in Ubuntu as well, so the migration scripts got angry, saying that a newer version (from git) was already in the archive.
<tumbleweed> what are we gonig to do about it?
<Logan_> I initially filed a bug against lxsession in Ubuntu, recommending that the lxsession-edit binary be removed (so that we can be in harmony with Debian), but they decided against that.
<Logan_> It's possible that the lxsession-edit source package will just be removed from Ubuntu (and added to the blacklist, if necessary). I personally prefer minimizing the delta, but there are reasons behind that decision, I suppose.
<tumbleweed> well, removing the binary wouldn't help users to downgrade to 0.2.... binary
<Logan_> True, but we could then update lxsession-edit in Ubuntu to that git snapshot.
<tumbleweed> right
<tumbleweed> Logan_: you're subscribed to ubuntu-devel-announce?
<Logan_> I just did, about half an hour ago.
<tumbleweed> :)
<bdrung> Logan_: do you want to join the sponsoring team?
<Logan_> If you think that would be a good fit for me, then sure. :)
<tumbleweed> Logan_: so, what stops you forwarding things to Debian?
<bdrung> i think it makes sense to help newcomers after having benefited from the sponsors.
<tumbleweed> yeah, keeping the sponsorship report down to 0 items is a valuable job
<Logan_> tumbleweed: If it is an Ubuntu-specific change that wouldn't make sense in Debian, then I won't forward it.
<bdrung> tumbleweed: i helped reaching it zero once, but then never got enough time to do it again
<tumbleweed> bdrung: yeah, I used to sponsor a lot, when I had the time...
<Logan_> (Such as something upstart-related, which usually tends to just be in Ubuntu.)
<micahg> Logan_: WRT to the last point, I don't see a bug in the BTS for the remaining diff here: https://code.launchpad.net/~logan/ubuntu/raring/tandem-mass/20121001-2ubuntu1/+merge/149920
<tumbleweed> Logan_: right. there are debian maintainers who will accept ubuntu-specific changes if it means their package can be in sync on Ubuntu. They are quite rare, though
<Logan_> micahg: Yeah - I figured there must have been a reason not to forward it at the time of the change, but I'll forward that to Debian (it might require a +dfsg?).
<micahg> Logan_: well, that's one solution which I think Debian might prefer
<micahg> but I think they certainly care about not from source binaries
<Logan_> I also find UDD to be much more intuitive than forwarding debdiffs, although the submittodebian tool from ubuntu-dev-tools attempts to minimize the pain from that.
<micahg> submittodebian is nice, /me hugs bdmurray
<ScottK> As a DD though I sometimes seen bugs from submittodebian that are very confusing.
<ScottK> You need to make sure what it produces is sensible/useful for the maintainer.
<micahg> bdmurray: oh, sorry, I thought you had a hand in writing it for some reason
 * barry usually extracts the diff and submits from a debian vm ;/
<bdrung> micahg: Soren Hansen and Steve Langasek wrote it and tumbleweed did a lot about it lately
<micahg> Logan_: sometimes people figure they'll file the bugs later and then forget about it
<Logan_> Yeah, that's definitely happened to me.
<Logan_> It would be nice if Debian used Launchpad (wishful thinking?).
<bdrung> that's very unlikely to happen
<micahg> Logan_: so, I remember at one point, you were non-maliciously hijacking merges without discussing with people, I was wondering if you indeed had a talk with the previous uploader about https://code.launchpad.net/~logan/ubuntu/raring/piuparts/0.49ubuntu1/+merge/149918 before proposing the merge
<Logan_> I didn't discuss that one with Andrew, but, with the feature freeze coming up, and considering that the new Debian version came out over a month ago, I figured it would be safe to perform the merge myself.
<Logan_> It was also a pretty simple merge.
<stgraber> Logan_: how well do you know the Ubuntu release schedule?
<Logan_> I'd like to say that I know it pretty well. I mostly focus on the Debian Import Freeze and the Feature Freeze dates, as those are the ones that affect what I do the most.
<Logan_> I filed a number of FFEs in the Quantal cycle, I believe.
<stgraber> are universe packages affected by milestone freezes?
<Logan_> Yup.
<stgraber> all of them or just a subset?
<Logan_> Only the ones that are included on the CDs, as milestone freezes are for ISO testing, I believe.
<Logan_> *DVDs (Quantal <3)
<stgraber> correct
<stgraber> how do you know whether a source is safe to upload or not?
<Logan_> Sorry, in what context?
<stgraber> milestone freeze
<stgraber> how do you know whether something will affect what's on a media
<Logan_> Check the reverse dependencies?
<stgraber> that'd be a pretty tedius process to figure out whether something is on a media or not
<stgraber> did you ever here of the seeded-in-ubuntu tool?
<Logan_> I've seen it, but I'm not sure about its functionality. Isn't it one of the ubuntu-dev-tools scripts?
<stgraber> it's
<bdrung> s/here/heard/
<stgraber> you can basically use it, passing the name of the source you want to upload and it'll tell you whether it's on a media
<Logan_> Ah, gotcha.
<tumbleweed> (figured out from the last daily build logs)
<stgraber> now a tricky one, what about vlc, if we're in milestone freeze, can you upload it safely?
<Logan_> Well, it looks like it's on the Mythbuntu ISOs...
<stgraber> correct but is mythbuntu participating in standard releases?
<Logan_> I actually learned last week while triaging bugs that Mythbuntu recently switched to only LTS releases of Ubuntu.
<Logan_> So, I guess it depends on whether or not it is an LTS.
<stgraber> correct
 * Logan_ wipes his forehead.
<stgraber> you can upload that package during any non-LTS release while in milestone freeze
<bdrung> Logan_: don't worry, vlc is in my tight hands. ;)
<Logan_> Haha, I'll leave vlc to you in that case.
<bdrung> Logan_: you seem to be a generalist. will you stay that way or are you interested in specialising?
<Logan_> I like being a generalist because it means that there's always work to do in Ubuntu, and I'm not restricted to a certain set of packages. If I were part of a team, though, I'd definitely consider specializing in certain packages.
<micahg> Logan_: so, back to my point about merges, there are two things, one is to not duplicate work, the assumption is that if someone has a merge they'll do it or orphan it on merges.ubuntu.com, if you're worried about something getting in, a note is nice, the other thing is that there's no shortage of work to be done, so if someone is already taking "responsibility" for something, it's usually good to let them do that and find something neglected
<micahg>  to fix, now there are merges left at the end of the cycle that aren't touched usually, I believe tumbleweed had a list somewhere of neglected merges
<tumbleweed> yeah, on ubuntuwire somewhere
<micahg> http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~stefanor/ubuntu-neglected-packages/
<Logan_> micahg: Okay, I'll definitely make note of the merges I'm working on in the future.
 * Logan_ hopes that someone will eventually take up Bug 611121.
<ubottu> bug 611121 in ubuntu-dev-tools (Ubuntu) "add a requestmerge script" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/611121
<bdrung> Logan_: patches welcome. :)
<tumbleweed> patches are welcome
<micahg> #vote Please vote on Logan Rosen becoming MOTU
<meetingology> Please vote on: Please vote on Logan Rosen becoming MOTU
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<tumbleweed> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from tumbleweed
<barry> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from barry
<ScottK> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from ScottK
<bdrung> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bdrung
<micahg> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from micahg
<stgraber> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
<micahg> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Please vote on Logan Rosen becoming MOTU
<meetingology> Votes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<micahg> Logan_: congratulations
<Logan_> Thanks so much!
<ScottK> Congratulations Logan_.
<bdrung> Logan_: congrats
<barry> Logan_: congrats!
<tumbleweed> welcome to MOTU
<bdrung> tumbleweed: Logan_ bug reminds me to do a u-d-t release.
<tumbleweed> bdrung: err, yeah
<micahg> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review of previous action items
<micahg> #subtopic Iain to do the paperwork for the kernel PPU team delegation
<micahg> I see Laney did this here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers#Ubuntu_Developers_.28from_delegated_teams.29
<ScottK> He seems to have escaped.
<Logan_> Gotta run - thanks again!
<micahg> so that's done
<micahg> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<ScottK> Nothing from me.
<micahg> #subtopic Decouple PPU from Ubuntu membership (what needs to be done?)
<micahg> so, IIRC, the TB was ok with the concept, so I guess we need documentation + figuring out team changes?
<micahg> s/changes/structure/
<pleia2> micahg: I never did ask, will we be grandfathering in folks who already are PPU members? (which would probably mean directly adding them to the ubuntumembers team)
<tumbleweed> I would say so
<pleia2> would hate for people to be depending upon membership for some reason (or one of the benefits) and lose that without realizing what happened
<micahg> pleia2: I think we'll still want a developer only membership without upload rights that recognizes contributions, but that the person isn't quite ready to work without a net, having said that, I think that yes, we'd grandfather those previous ubuntu-dev members in
<bdrung> our changes should only affect future applications
<tumbleweed> micahg: that's ~universe-contributors, isn't it?
<bdrung> yes, that's ~universe-contributors. maybe we should rename that team
<micahg> tumbleweed: yeah, I think we need to restructure all of this to bring it into the present though
<pleia2> ok, great
<tumbleweed> which has no reason to be universe-related
<bdrung> it used to be universe-related, but isn't any more
<tumbleweed> I can't think of a sane name for a team for ubuntu developers who are members
<bdrung> Ubuntu Contributing Developers
<tumbleweed> ok I like that
<tumbleweed> although
<stgraber> UCD makes sense, we've been using the name for a while now, it's just the team name that doesn't make any sense. We should just rename it and be done with it.
<tumbleweed> ~universe-contributors isn't a member of ubuntu-dev
<ScottK> I thought UCD were members who got membership via development, but weren't ready for upload rights yet?
<micahg> ok, so can we get someone to draft the new team names/structures and someone to draft new documentation?
<micahg> ScottK: correct
<tumbleweed> those peolpe don't have upload rights so they don't get bug-control
<tumbleweed> (etc.)
<ScottK> So those are members without upload rights.
<tumbleweed> yes, but we currently call that team Ubuntu Contributing Developers
<ScottK> Don't we need somthing new for upload rights without membership?
<tumbleweed> ubuntu-ppu ?
<micahg> yeah, something like that
<tumbleweed> upload rights without membership are only going to be PPU
<ScottK> Yes.
<barry> tumbleweed: +1
<stgraber> hmm, it's going to get tricky...
<stgraber> so we want PPU without membership to be part of some kidn of team so we can track them, yet not have any kind of membership
<micahg> tumbleweed: no, I can see some packagesets fitting into that as well
<stgraber> and those that have PPU + membership need to be somehow part of ~ubuntu-dev
<stgraber> but UCD members shouldn't be part of ~ubuntu-dev
<bdrung> what is ~ubuntu-dev used for?
<stgraber> ~ubuntu-dev means you can vote for the DMB/TB/...
<tumbleweed> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev/+participation
<stgraber> and is probably used in a few more places for additional rights
<micahg> I think we can have ~ubuntu-uploaders and ~ubuntu-contributing-developers as base teams for ubuntu-dev, the former has upload related teams (bug control and such), the later has membership related (cloak, planet)
<barry> ~ubuntu-contributors is a subteam of ~ubuntumembers which is a "group of people who vote to confirm new appointments to the Ubuntu Community Council"
<stgraber> barry: right, which isn't the same group as those voting for DMB+TB IIRC :)
<micahg> ubuntu-dev inherits the permissions, and people can move there once they have both permissions
<micahg> wait, does ubuntu-dev require general membership or dev membership?
<ScottK> Yes
<tumbleweed> so should ubuntu-ppu just be a separate team for people who get PPU without upload rights?
<micahg> (i.e. can someone be a loco rockstar, get PPU and then be able to vote for TB/DMB)
<tumbleweed> it doesn't sound like it cas easily fit into any tree
<micahg> tumbleweed: yeah, I'd call the team ubuntu-uploaders as a base team
<ScottK> micahg: Yes.  Membership is membership.  There's really no such thing as a developer membership.
<ScottK> The current situation is that if you're PPU and have membership, you can vote for TB.
<stgraber> micahg: member + some-kind-of-upload-right => ubuntu-dev (either directly for PPU or indirectly for motu/coredev/package-set)
<ScottK> Now that's currently all PPU, but in the future, we probably have to retain that.
<micahg> stgraber: right, that was my question, but I guess now that Debian has non uploading DDs, I guess the point isn't as valid
 * ScottK wonders how that is relevant.
<stgraber> yeah, not sure what's the relation with non-uploading DDs
<micahg> the basis of the question was at what point does an uploader have enough experience to have a say in how development activities are done
<micahg> (i.e. electing those people to decide those policies)
<stgraber> when an uploader also becomes a member they're able to vote, not before that
<stgraber> and members who can't upload don't get to vote for DMB/TB
<tumbleweed> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5565892/ ?
<micahg> right, I was wondering if the sustained development aspect was important (we in theory have this now)
<ScottK> It's sustained contribution.
<micahg> tumbleweed: I wouldn't put all packagesets under ubuntu-dev, the flavors for sure, not sure about the others
<ScottK> If someone was already a member, you don't re-review that.
<micahg> I guess that's true
<tumbleweed> micahg: they're already there
<tumbleweed> micahg: where do we put them then? are we not giving them automatic membership?
<stgraber> any team giving upload rights, except for the special non-member-PPU needs to be a member of ubuntu-dev
<stgraber> that's how it's currently and that's how it should stay
<tumbleweed> we do tend to create a packageset for any non-trivial PPU application
<tumbleweed> so argubly there'll be people who don't meet membership criteria
<stgraber> I'd also restrict the non-member-PPU stuff to non-packageset PPU
<micahg> tumbleweed: we are at the moment, I'm suggesting that be restructured as some packagesets might work better as PPU in that we don't look for sustained contribution (in fact, I think I'd prefer that to lower the bar, so that just ability is gaged)
<tumbleweed> it can be hard to see ability without sustained contribution
<tumbleweed> but yes, I'm fine with saying that this is for PPU only
<ScottK> Isn't packageset versus individual package PPU a matter of administrative convenience?
<micahg> this is what I was thinking: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5565912/
<tumbleweed> ScottK: yes
<tumbleweed> micahg: that's neater than mine
<micahg> oops, that shouldn't say PPU people under contributing devs, but non-PPU dev members
<tumbleweed> except that you got ppu members and ppu people the wrong way around
<barry> micahg: that makes more sense ;)
<micahg> must have seen something shiny while typing ;)
<ScottK> If it's just an administrative convenience, we shouldn't make it more than that.
<micahg> here's with it fixed: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5565921/
<tumbleweed> ScottK: until the uploaders team for it has more than one member
<bdrung> i like micahg team structure proposal
<tumbleweed> micahg: surely line 3 is unecessary
<tumbleweed> included via ubuntu-dev
<stgraber> if we had a very good reason to give packageset upload to a non-member, we could create a second team for the packageset containing non-members
<micahg> tumbleweed: hrm? line 3 is the PPU without membership
<stgraber> that'd prevent them accessing branches owned by the main team though, so I certainly won't +1 any such application if there's an active team of members
<tumbleweed> oh, I misread sorry
<micahg> stgraber: I was thinking that non-flavor packagesets could be judged on ability only to lower the bar (i.e. cli-mono, input-methods)
<tumbleweed> +1 micahg's scheme
<micahg> whereas flavor packagesets are inherently membership based
<stgraber> micahg: I certainly wouldn't want non-members being able to get kernel, server or desktop packageset rights
<micahg> stgraber: kernel might be the exception here, but they're delegated now
<micahg> everything else is a flavor
<micahg> I'm fine grouping kernel with the flavor packagesets
<ScottK> I think kernel uploaders should be members.
<stgraber> micahg: what I mean is that I don't really care for non-seeded but I'm reluctant to give upload rights to seeded packages to non-members
<micahg> stgraber: seeded = flavor :)
<stgraber> micahg: to take a better example, I wouldn't give non-member upload rights to the ubuntuone set
<micahg> oh, hrm
<stgraber> micahg: nope, we have quite a few package sets containing seeded packages that aren't flavors
 * stgraber grabs a list
<ScottK> How can there be a seeded package that isn't in a flavor set (or core)
<micahg> are we willing to give PPU for something seeded without membership?
 * ScottK doesn't see how it matters.
<micahg> I think the answer is yes (the membership aspect is about sustained contribution, not trust IMHO)
<micahg> so, I don't see a problem with ubuntuone
<stgraber> ScottK: packages can be in multiple sets
<ScottK> Right, but to be in an image, it needs to be in at least one.
<stgraber> ScottK: based on what micahg said before, he'd be fine granting someone upload rights to the xorg set for example without requiring membership. But all packages in the xorg set are in main and seeded on all media.
<ScottK> Right.
<ScottK> So that's core though.
<stgraber> same goes for some stuff in bzr, input-methods, kernel, langpack, mozilla, ubuntuone and utouch
<micahg> here's my example, some DD became proficient in Ubuntu One packages after introducing them into Debian and would like to have the packages flow through Debian where possible, we'd need to make sure that the person was obviously in touch with the Ubuntu U1 members and understands the release cycle, but I don't see why membership is needed
<ScottK> Agreed.
<barry> micahg: i agree.  ppu is about trust and competence.  membership is about sustained contribution (on top of that)
<micahg> we won't grant PPU to begin with if we think someone is going to make a mess of things, image or not
<ScottK> As another example, I've got no problem with giving some people who work on X in Debian PPU rights in Ubuntu as long as we make sure they know a few things.
<ScottK> I don't see how seeded or not affects the decision.
<ScottK> We've probably done about enough for one meeting.
 * bdrung nods.
<stgraber> I think we'll find that it's most often linked as "sustained" will often mean trusted and ready to contribute to core parts of Ubuntu.
<ScottK> micahg: Could you write up your proposal and send it to the list?
<micahg> ScottK: for the team structure, sure, could someone offer to write up the documentation proposal?
<stgraber> but I guess I'm fine with not making it a requirement and will instead just -1 those applications until they'd be fine by me to be members too.
<micahg> or is this all inclusive?
<micahg> stgraber: well, with core areas of Ubuntu, I'm more concerned with ability and trust than sustained contribution TBH, though trust a lot of time manifests itself as sustained contribution, but are not necessarily one in the same
<micahg> (not core-dev, PPU)
<micahg> #action micahg to write up proposal for new team structure and send to DMB list
<meetingology> ACTION: micahg to write up proposal for new team structure and send to DMB list
<micahg> ok, so unless there's anything else, I'll end the meeting as we're at 2+ hours
<stgraber> micahg: my experience is that you build trust over time, and it happens that the time I use to consider "sustained" and "trusted" happens to be pretty much the same ;)
<micahg> stgraber: I can think of cases where they need not be one in the same and would prefer the flexibility to play it by ear
<micahg> but we can take it to the ML
<micahg> unless you think there's something more we can do right now
<stgraber> nope, I'm happy to get back to work now, wasn't a terribly productive day for me so far ;)
<micahg> heh, I can relate
<micahg> next chair, Laney with stgraber as a backup
<micahg> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Feb 25 21:21:11 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-02-25-19.03.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-02-25-19.03.html
<barry> micahg: thanks!
<micahg> thanks everyone, sorry we went a bit over
<tumbleweed> phew
<bdrung> "a bit" haha
<micahg> a byte? ;)
<bdrung> :D
<ScottK> Kibi or Kilo?
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-02-26
<hallyn> \o
<hallyn> (will start mtg in 2 mins)
<Daviey> o/
<smb> \o
<smoser> o/
<hallyn> all right, let's get going
<hallyn> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Feb 26 16:01:04 2013 UTC.  The chair is hallyn. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
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* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<hggdh> ~Ã´~
<jamespage> o/
<hallyn> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<hallyn> Daviey send call for alpha-2-ish testing
<hallyn> didn't see this?
<Daviey> Ugh. I thought we dropped that.
<hallyn> Daviey: last week it was re-added.  should we drop it?
<hallyn> wait for a beta to do CFT?
<Daviey> hallyn: Yes please.. but i will gladly send a reminder to ask people to test
<Daviey> matsurba has kidnly offered to help with dep-8 tests BTW.
<Daviey> kindly*
<hallyn> cool
<hallyn> (i have 2 i'm still supposed tow rite)
<jamespage> \o/
<hallyn> moving on,
<hallyn> jamespage to milesone documentation updates [carryover]
<jamespage> hallyn, I need to refresh my memory as to what that means
<jamespage> but please carryover for the time being
<hallyn> jamespage: i think it meant going through blueprints looking for doc updates, and adding milestones to them?
<hallyn> ok
<jamespage> hallyn, yeah - I think so
<hallyn> ACTION: jamespage to milesone documentation updates [carryover]
<hallyn> jamespage: though it was in the context of server guide, so not sure
<hallyn> jamespage discuss QA representation at Server TeamMeeting
<jamespage> yes - hggdh is here today and plars will be attending from now onwards...
<plars> hallyn: I'll be taking that over
<jamespage> plars, welcome!
<hallyn> cool, so i'll update that in the server meeting knowledgebase page
<hggdh> and I am disconnecting from representing QA :-)
<hallyn> #action serge update server meeting docs to reflect palrs representing qa
<meetingology> ACTION: serge update server meeting docs to reflect palrs representing qa
<hallyn> hggdh: :(
<plars> s/palrs/plars
<hallyn> plars: welcome :)
<plars> thanks!
<hallyn> plars: sorry, fingers cold, hard typing
<arosales> yes hggdh :-(
<arosales> but welcome plars :-)
<hallyn> ok moving on,
<hallyn> #topic Raring Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Raring Development
<hallyn> Release Tracking Bug Tasks - http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-r-tracking-bug-tasks.html#server
<hallyn> jamespage: Daviey: one of you want to take th is, or should i go over them?
<hallyn> well i'll start,
<hallyn> bug 1092715
<ubottu> bug 1092715 in qemu-kvm (Ubuntu Raring) "udevadm trigger --action=change not working in quantal and raring" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1092715
<hallyn> the kvm bug *should* be worked around now,
<hallyn> jamespage: can you confirm that?
<jamespage> hallyn, I'll check
<hallyn> or... is that only in 1.4.0 (which is still pending my pushing)
<hallyn> jamespage: thanks
<hallyn> bug 1044503
<ubottu> bug 1044503 in maas (Ubuntu Raring) "kernel command line is not easily customizable" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1044503
<Daviey> hmm, i thought that was fixed now
<hallyn> smoser: ?
<hallyn> fixed in the project but not the package, looks like
<Daviey> smoser: does bug 901600 not solve bug 1044503 ?
<ubottu> bug 901600 in grub2 (Ubuntu Quantal) "Allow /etc/default/grub overriding via /etc/default/grub.d/" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/901600
<smoser> i think hally's assesment is correct wrt 1044503.
<Daviey> Oh, duh.. the bug title confused me
<hallyn> so that'll end up in the pkg before long?
<hallyn> will assume so.  bug 1064527 - roaksoax ?
<smoser> i'd hope we'll get something in raring... but most focus on maas has been on backport.
<ubottu> bug 1064527 in maas (Ubuntu Raring) "detect_ipmi needs improvement. detects non-existant device in nested kvm" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1064527
<hallyn> smoser: thx
<hallyn> roaksoax: around?
<roaksoax> hallyn: here
<hallyn> any progress on that bug?  seems to be stalled since october?
<roaksoax> hallyn: well we haven't really found a way to do it.. so there's no progress
<hallyn> ok, thanks...
<hallyn> bug 1073463
<ubottu> bug 1073463 in maas (Ubuntu Raring) "User-configurable files are not installed in /etc" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1073463
<hallyn> not owned by anyone,
<hallyn> anyone want to volunteer to look at it?
<roaksoax> i;ll take it
<hallyn> cool, thanks
<roaksoax> but I think that bug doesn't belong there
<roaksoax> that belongs upstream
<hallyn> ok - you can re-target?
<roaksoax> hallyn: yes, I'll catch up with bigjools about it first
<hallyn> great
<hallyn> bug 1122206
<ubottu> bug 1122206 in quantum (Ubuntu Raring) "l3_agent destroys all namespaces on init, even if router_id is set" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1122206
<hallyn> fix released in quantum project, not pkg...
<hallyn> i assume we're jsut waiting - moving on unless someone shouts
<hallyn> bug 1132302
<ubottu> bug 1132302 in drbd8 (Ubuntu Raring) "drbd8-utils are not compatible with kernel 3.8" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1132302
<hallyn> looks like rbasak has that handled :)  thanks rbasak
<rbasak> np. Just waiting on the reporter to test, and if it's OK then we can upload
<hallyn> two medium bugs, tempted to skip them,
<hallyn> well there is bug 1100920 whic his fix committed,
<ubottu> bug 1100920 in cloud-init (Ubuntu Raring) "In Ubuntu 12.10, the legacy 'user' cloud-config option is not handled properly" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1100920
<hallyn> and then bug 1113821 - zul or i just needs to fix that in libvirt (same fix as in lxc)
<ubottu> bug 1113821 in libvirt (Ubuntu Raring) "libvirt-bin deletes /etc/dnsmasq.d/libvirt-bin on upgrade" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1113821
<hallyn> oh i own it :)
<hallyn> tsk tsk
<hallyn> ok, moving on,
<hallyn> Blueprints - http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-raring/group/topic-raring-servercloud-overview.html
<hallyn> arosales: Daviey: did you want to say somethin gon blueprints?
<Daviey> Only the usual :)
<Daviey> Make sure they are accurate, we look a little behind where i think we actually *are*
<Daviey> So everybody should check that bluepritns assigned to them are in accurate state
<Daviey> (and talk with elither myself, or jamespage or smoser about defering thing)
<hallyn> Daviey: meaning at this point we should talk to you before deferring anything,
<hallyn> or ping you if we have questions?
<Daviey> yeah.. ideally not just defer things.. disucss with me, or scott or james.. first
<hallyn> ok
<hallyn> moving on,
<hallyn> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Ubuntu Server Team Events
<hallyn> anything to mention here?
<Daviey> none come to mind.
<hallyn> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<hallyn> three cheers for hggdh ?
<hallyn> plars:
<plars> Hi
<hallyn> hey :)
<plars> Just a couple of things
<plars> 1. LXC failures
<plars> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-test-cases/+bug/1130029
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1130029 in Ubuntu Test Cases "testcase: test_lxc_api returns error in raring lxc server smoke tests" [High,Confirmed]
<plars> hallyn: you seem to have a mp for this at https://code.launchpad.net/~serge-hallyn/ubuntu-test-cases/server-lxc2/+merge/150491
<hallyn> merge proposal is pending to fix that
<hallyn> yup
<hallyn> (though i'm still getting the hang of utah, still testing locally, might have more changes coming)
<plars> If someone can get that reviewed and in soon, we'd like to test it out.  I was talking to psivaa this morning about it and he thinks there may be other issues lurking once we get past this one
<hallyn> plars: who has the rights to review that?
<plars> I'm not as well aware of what's going on with this bug, so if he or you want to discuss what further steps might be needed, that would be useful
<plars> hallyn: it seems to be pointed at https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-server-dev right now
<hallyn> ?
<hallyn> ok will fix that, thanks :)
<plars> but as far as merging it, anyone in the https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-test-case-dev group could do it
<hallyn> no here it says lp:ubuntu-test-cases/server
<hallyn> oh you mean reviewer
<plars> hallyn: I'm talking about the reviewer
<plars> right
<hallyn> i just used the default
<plars> ubuntu-server-dev is the default reviewer?
<plars> odd
<hallyn> is that something that should be changed in the ubuntu-test-case lp settings?
<plars> perhaps
<plars> I'll talk to others about it, but since it's a test for lxc, I figured it was something that you wanted reviewed by ubuntu-server-dev
<hallyn> ok thanks we'll straighten the mp out - moving on?
<plars> it made sense to me at least
<plars> ok
<hallyn> oh i see, ok
<plars> only other thing I wanted to raise (and it's minor) is conffile failures
<hallyn> no perhaps ubuntu-lxc
<plars> ex. https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Raring/view/Smoke%20Testing/job/raring-upgrade-quantal-server/ARCH=amd64,LTS=non-lts,PROFILE=server-tasks,label=upgrade-test/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/results/obsolete_conffiles.log
<hallyn> not ubuntu-server-dev
<plars> These are no longer reported as individual bugs
<plars> but we get a good log of them in the test runs that can be referred to
<plars> We realize that they are low priority as bugs go, and in some cases they stack up to dozens that would need to be tracked against every daily test run indefinitely.  So if you have some cycles and want to clean them up, it would be useful
<hallyn> these are confiles no longer used by cups in raring?
<plars> apparently not
<plars> or if they are, their location changed
<hallyn> and so they should be handled by the packaging somehow.  k.  does someone go look at those log pages regularly?
<hallyn> do they get emailed somewhere?
<plars> hallyn: not currently, but they always end up in the same place, so they are pretty easy to find
<plars> hallyn: the url I pointed to will take you to the lastSuccessfulBuild in jenkins and show you the current obsolete_conffiles log
<hallyn> perhaps that url s hould be added to the server team knowledgebase weekly bug triaging section
<hallyn> the url may be consistent, but if noone is in the habit of looking at it, bugs won't get raised...  course you're right about low prio,
<plars> hallyn: that sounds reasonable - we were looking for a better way of dealing with these and nobody wanted spam about it, but I don't think it makes sense to ignore them entirely. So just making you aware
<hallyn> ok, thanks
<hallyn> #action serge consider putting the obsolete_conffiles.log url in weekly triaging knowledgebase section
<meetingology> ACTION: serge consider putting the obsolete_conffiles.log url in weekly triaging knowledgebase section
<plars> hallyn: the problem with bugs is it got to be quite a lot of overhead - in this case with one or 2 it's not so bad, but in others you're talking 30-40 bugs that have to be updated across each daily test run
<plars> ...for something that just gets ignored
<plars> sanity kicked in at some point
<hallyn> plars: yup :)
<plars> that's all from me
<hallyn> plars: thanks
<hallyn> moving on,
<hallyn> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<smb> Hello, I would like to take this opportunity to re-advertise for http://people.canonical.com/~smb/lucid-ec2-ng/ ... I know not very subtly but I am a developer and not a sales guy. :-P Otherwise raring kernel ddebs will be actually usable after next upload (in case anybody actually was wondering why the heck they were so small).
<smb> Oh, one other thing: have not run into this myself but it seems
<smb> that recent raring kvm/qemu packages are a bit insulted if
<smb> post-install does not get /dev/kvm. This might not be the "normal"
<smb> case but it is possible to have the kvm package installed and dual
<smb> boot between xen and non-xen mode and its also possibleto do a
<smb> dist-upgrade in xen dom0 which won't allow for /dev/kvm...
<smb> Beside that, any questions? :)
<smoser> smb, i'm confused about /dev/kvm
<hallyn> smb: the /dev/kvm bit *should* be fixed, please shout at me if you see it again
<smoser> right.
<smb> hallyn, Ah ok, it was a few days ago
<smoser> hallyn, that is bug 1103022 ?
<ubottu> bug 1103022 in udev (Ubuntu) "70-udev-acl.rules needs to put g+rw on /dev/kvm" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1103022
<hallyn> smoser: no
<hallyn> smoser: it was a bug from my bad fixing of that one
<hallyn> smoser: if /dev/kvm did not exist, getfacl failed, causing postinst to fail
<smoser> ah. k.
<smb> Ah ok, as said it wasn't me and it was probably last week
<hallyn> smb: feb 20 the fix went up
<hallyn> so yeah shout at me if you see it again.  thx
<smb> hallyn, sure. will do :)
<hallyn> lucid-ec2-ng - i assume the right folks know what that means :)
<smb> hallyn, I suppose yes.
<hallyn> thanks, smb.  moving on,
<hallyn> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
<rbasak> Nothing new to report. Any questions for me?
<hallyn> sounds like no, moving on,
<hallyn> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Open Discussion
<hallyn> anything to discuss?
<hallyn> if not,
<hallyn> hggdh: o/  see you around!
<hallyn> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
<hallyn> Next meeting will be same time, 16:00 UTC on March 5.
<hallyn> thanks all,
<hallyn> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Feb 26 16:38:30 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-02-26-16.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-02-26-16.01.html
<Daviey> thanks
<arosales> hallyn (looks like he already left) thanks for chairing
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Feb 26 17:00:36 2013 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
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<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/raring
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<bjf> o/
<ppisati> o/
<smb> \o
<cking> o/
<henrix> o/
<sconklin> o/
<sforshee> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> R/master: upstream landed a patch for the ipv6 stack alignment problem - waiting
<ppisati> for it to enter linux-next or stable before picking it up.
<ppisati> Meanwhile i'm trying to make the binary pvr omap4 module to work with the
<ppisati> upstream kernel (but so far i didn't succeed).
<ppisati> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/~canonical-kernel-distro-team/+upcomingwork
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-raring/canonical-kernel-distro-team.html
<ogasawara> || apw       || hardware-r-kernel-config-review       || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> ||           || hardware-r-delta-review               || 3 work items ||
<ogasawara> ||           || foundations-r-secure-boot             || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> ||           || foundations-r-aarch64                 || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> ||           || foundations-r-upstart-user-session-enhancements || 1 work item ||
<ogasawara> || ogasawara || hardware-r-kernel-config-review       || 2 work items ||
<ogasawara> ||           || hardware-r-kernel-version-and-flavors || 2 work items ||
<ogasawara> ||           || hardware-r-arm-kernel-maintenance     || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> ||           || hardware-r-kernel-misc                || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> || ppisati   || hardware-r-kernel-config-review       || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> || smb       || servercloud-r-libvirt                 || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> ||           || servercloud-r-xen                     || 2 work items ||
<ogasawara> || rtg       || hardware-r-delta-review               || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> The above summarizes the remaining work items owned by individuals on
<ogasawara> our team for the rest of the cycle.
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Raring Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Raring Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> We have recently uploaded the 3.8.0-7.16 Raring kernel.  This upload
<ogasawara> contains a fix for CVE-2013-1763 and config updates following a full
<ogasawara> v3.8 config review.
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara>  * Raring:
<ubottu> ** RESERVED ** This candidate has been reserved by an organization or individual that will use it when announcing a new security problem.  When the candidate has been publicized, the details for this candidate will be provided. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2013-1763)
<ogasawara>   * Thurs Mar 07 - 13.04 Feature Freeze (~1 week)
<ogasawara>   * Thurs Mar 21 - 13.04 Beta Freeze (~3 weeks)
<ogasawara>   * Thurs Mar 28 - 13.04 Beta Release (~4 weeks)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's (sconklin)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's (sconklin)
<sconklin> == 2013-02-26 (weekly) ==
<sconklin> Currently we have 36 CVEs on our radar, with 6 CVEs added and 5 CVEs retired this week.
<sconklin> See the CVE matrix for the current list:
<sconklin> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<sconklin> Overall the backlog has decreased slightly this week:
<sconklin> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/status/cve-metrics.txt
<sconklin> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/CVE-linux.txt
<sconklin> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Quantal/Precise/Oneiric/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/henrix)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Quantal/Precise/Oneiric/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/henrix)
<bjf> Status for the main kernels, until tiday (Feb. 26):
<bjf>   *   Hardy - Nothing this cycle
<bjf>   *   Lucid - In Prep; (2 commits)
<bjf>   * Oneiric - In Prep; 4 upstream releases; (68 commits)
<bjf>   * Precise - In Prep; 2 upstream releases; (197 commits)
<bjf>   * Quantal - In Prep; 2 upstream releases; (175 commits)
<bjf>     
<bjf> Due to an high priority CVE, all the stable kernels are being respined this week.
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<bjf> Future stable cadence cycles:
<bjf>   * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RaringRingtail/ReleaseInterlock
<bjf>     
<bjf> >>
<bjf> >> Note: The week of March 28 is the week the last Hardy and Oneiric kernels may be built.
<bjf> >>
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Feb 26 17:06:11 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-02-26-17.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-02-26-17.00.html
<sconklin> thanks Joe!
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-02-27
<ogra_> moooo
<jodh> meow
 * genii-around checks the fridge
 * slangasek waves
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Feb 27 16:04:01 2013 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh ev bdmurray slangasek ogra cjwatson xnox stokachu)
<slangasek> stokachu cjwatson xnox ogra bdmurray barry jodh slangasek ev doko stgraber
<stokachu> - No public fires this week :D (done)
<ev> I love these dice
<cjwatson> foundations-r-phased-updates: LP implementation landed and passed QA.  Next deployment will enable this facility, so errors.u.c glue will be able to use it.
<cjwatson> foundations-r-future-release-infrastructure: Considerable progress on the Python rewrite.  Now over half-complete.  Had to spend some time fixing production regressions as a result, though.
<cjwatson> Lots of maintenance work on update-manager's tests.
<cjwatson> Allowed update-manager to remove packages under normal operation provided that Conflicts/Replaces/Provides are present (bug 1038113).
<ubottu> bug 1038113 in update-manager (Ubuntu Raring) "support conflicts/provides/replaces and allow removal in this case" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1038113
<cjwatson> Fixed implementation of biosdevname=0 installer boot parameter (bug 1134227).
<ubottu> bug 1134227 in biosdevname (Ubuntu) "biosdevname always gets installed" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1134227
<cjwatson> Started looking at bug 1097570; still trying to sort out some workable semantics which don't require re-signing GRUB.
<ubottu> bug 1097570 in grub2 (Ubuntu Raring) "grub2-signed can not find the right device when there are two filesystems containing the file '.disk/info'." [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1097570
<cjwatson> SRU processing run last night.
<cjwatson> Reflashed my Nexus 7 to the Touch Developer Preview.  This suffers fairly badly from wireless problems on my local network; I now have almost all the hardware needed to fix this (missing PATA/SATA converter, drat) so will be tearing down and rebuilding tomorrow.
<cjwatson> ..
<xnox> * Nexus7 preseeding including wifi settings and rebooting into
<xnox>   fastboot mode fully works and landed in raring daily images.
<xnox>   With added blog post to ubuntu planet.
<xnox>   Thus completing my workitems on foundations-r-android-image-builds.
<xnox>   Ogra do we still need oversize check and/or test-cases?
<xnox> * Uploaded yet one more ntfs-3g fallout bug fix (LP: #1132392)
<xnox> * Fixed cross-building nspr
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1132392 in ntfs-3g (Ubuntu) "Unable to mount NTFS partition during system boot while having a separate /usr partition" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1132392
<xnox> * Visuals for ubiquity u1 refresh are finalised, working with u1 team
<xnox>   to deliver integrating that work into the installer.
<xnox> * Started work to create the updated progress bar experience in ubiquity.
<xnox> * Short week (had friday off).
<xnox> ..
<cjwatson> (If you're wondering why fixing a wireless network requires a PATA/SATA converter: the words "yak" and "shaving" come to mind)
<slangasek> xnox: bug #1132392> great, thanks :)
<ogra_> xnox, yes, but that kind of goes together with the switch to xz ...
<xnox> ogra_: where is the code? Can I help?
<ogra_> (which might not happen)
<xnox> oh, ok.
<ogra_> it needs pxz in main, adam had some concerns
<slangasek> I recently watched Michael Palin's Himalaya, there's some great footage of yak shaving in there
<ogra_> LOL
<xnox> ogra_: why? can we not use the kernels embedded xz support. I know it's limited but it is supported in initramfs.
<ogra_> xnox, its not the uncompressing :)
<xnox> oh, yeah, build time.
<ogra_> its adding an hour build time to the build
<ogra_> pxz prevents us from that apparently
<ogra_> but would need to become a dep of livecd-rootfs
<ogra_> which would require it in main
<ogra_> and infinity thinks its not ready yet
<xnox> currently pxz in debian has some patches, where apperantly it doesn't handle streams correctly, but with tar.xz it's just one stream.
<xnox> (patches in development that is)
<ogra_> right
<ogra_> thats what he referred to
<ogra_> implementing xz itself is a matter of changing five lines in two places
<xnox> i don't see how that blocks us on cd-image side of things, sure it's broken if you are compressing multiple files together into xz directly, instead of tarring them up first.....
<ogra_> it needs to become a live-build/livecd-rootfs dep
<xnox> i'll chat with infinity (which is _not_ idling here) about getting pxz into main.
<ogra_> else we wont have it on the livefs builder
 * ogra_ didnt know infinity was an "it" :)
 * xnox ?????
<ogra_> anyway, lets sort this out of meeting
<cjwatson> xnox: you'd usually use "who" for a person, not "which" :)
 * xnox ponders (is it which vs who?! it's one word in russian.... sorry)
<slangasek> ogra_: your turn?
<ogra_> oh
<ogra_> done:
<ogra_>  * stuck on implementing xz compression (would need pxz in main, not clear thats wanted yet)
<ogra_>  * started working on kubuntu-active nx7 images (Riddell is currently testing)
<ogra_>  * got sucked into Ubuntu Touch very deeply (i kind of turned into the go to guy for the community since i did the public release)
<ogra_>  * made ubuntu touch daily images available from jenkins to cdimage
<ogra_>  * lots of work and discussion with the phablet team
<ogra_> todo:
<ogra_>  * go back to nexus7 work on ubuntu desktop :P
<ogra_>  * check with other flavours about nx7 images
<ogra_>  * invent some nice vUDS specs !
<ogra_>  * try to port Ubuntu Touch to my spare SGS II (GT-I9200) to get familiar with the android side of things
<ogra_>  * get proper live-build support for ubuntu-touch defined at vUDS and implement parts of it (seeds etc)
<ogra_> ..
<ogra_> sorry :) the discussion dragged me away
<cjwatson> To what extent is the current set of nx7 images still something we intend to maintain in light of Ubuntu Touch?
<xnox> cjwatson: my excuse, I didn't capitalise infinity to make that word a proper noun =)))))))
<cjwatson> Or is that not something that can be answered in public / just plain not decided yet?
<ogra_> well, we will have to run a full desktop in docked state at some point
<ogra_> so we will still need a reference i guess
<bdmurray> worked on an upstart job for update-notifier cd notifications
<bdmurray> modified upstart job so it works with usb disks with ubuntu data too
<bdmurray> tested update-notifier upstart job as a user session job
<bdmurray> moved upstart user job for hplip firmware into update-notifier
<bdmurray> modified update-notifier not to watch for CDs any more
<cjwatson> Though not displaying on the nx7 screen, though we haven't been worrying too much about UI bugs there anyway - OK
<bdmurray> modified update-notifier to build a new binary specifically for CDs
<bdmurray> worked on, tested and pushed a branch for errors bug 1122511
<bdmurray> restructured daisy branch to have a daisy directory
<bdmurray> pushed new daisy and errors branches for userpackagecache and updated merge proposals
<ubottu> bug 1122511 in Errors "expose user parameter on front page of errors.ubuntu.com" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1122511
<bdmurray> submitted rt regarding rolling out errors r274
<ogra_> and pandas will likely die soon with the switch to new Xorg ABI and no new binary blobs from TI
<bdmurray> reviewed a merge proposal from evan for daisy
<bdmurray> merge proposal for canonical-memento adding a cronjob to import user packages
<bdmurray> tested screen clearing with lightdm (bug 967229)
<ubottu> bug 967229 in plymouth (Ubuntu) "Text mode shown briefly with various "cryptic" texts when logging out or shutting down" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/967229
<bdmurray> .. done
<ev> yay
<ogra_> (pandas for desktop images that is)
<xnox> bdmurray: what is "adding a cronjob to import user packages" ?
<xnox> or ev?!
<jodh> * blueprints
<jodh>   - foundations-r-upstart-roadmap: no progress.
<jodh>   - foundations-r-upstart-user-session-enhancements
<jodh>     - Merged lp:~jamesodhunt/upstart/upstart-shutdown
<jodh>     - Merged lp:~jamesodhunt/upstart/set-env--global-apply-to-running-jobs
<jodh>     - Merged lp:~jamesodhunt/upstart/upstart-no-inherit-env
<jodh>     - Merged lp:~stgraber/upstart/upstart-fix-env-test
<jodh>     - upstart-file-bridge: good progress.
<jodh>     - Wrote a rudimentary Upstart event monitor app (gui+cmdline) to
<jodh>       make it easier for users to watch event flows to help write their own jobs
<jodh>       (http://people.canonical.com/~jhunt/upstart/gui/ for code+screenshots).
<jodh> * misc
<jodh>   - not at work last week due to illness.
<jodh>   - bug 1123588: Fixed for Upstart (TODO for libnih).
<ubottu> bug 1123588 in upstart (Ubuntu Raring) "wrong usage of the `malloc' function attribute" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1123588
<jodh> ð
<jodh>  
<xnox> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%F0%90%8E%98
<bdmurray> xnox: it takes a while to look up packages a launchpad user is subscribed to so we are cache'ing them in cassandra
<slangasek> there's a food cart in downtown Portland called 'Ugarit'
<bdmurray> xnox: for some specific teams like foundations-bugs
<slangasek> they do not use Ugaritic writing
<slangasek>  * vUDS planning
<slangasek>  * working on getting apt to make multiarch-friendlier choices for library dependencies (bug #1130419)
<ubottu> bug 1130419 in apt (Ubuntu Precise) "apt resolver doesn't do sensible things when satisfying a cross-dependency on a virtual package (steam, wine)" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1130419
<slangasek>  * worked with QA team on boot chart issues; current problems seem to have been caused by whoopsie (bug #1124330), now worked around
<ubottu> bug 1124330 in The Ubuntu Boot Speed Project "[raring] Latest whoopsie 0.2.13 slows down boot process by 29 seconds!" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1124330
<slangasek>  * discussions with kernel team, phablet team about resource management on the phone
<slangasek>  * discussing with desktop team about next steps for systemd services, now that the basic package is in place
<slangasek> (done)
 * ev grumbles that it's consolekit, not whoopsie, at fault here
<ev> - Landed the prodstack-prep branch of daisy on trunk. \o/
<ev> - In the process of landing all the other prodstack-prep branches as I want us
<ev>   dogfooding them more to encourage webops to finish the deployment to
<ev>   prodstack.
<ev> - Massive (and long overdue) rearrangement of lp:daisy and lp:errors. Hand
<ev>   holded the deployment of this onto production. This will make running from a
<ev>   branch easier (they're proper modules now) and code sharing between lp:daisy
<ev>   and lp:errors possible.
<ev> - Wrote a small script to run lp:errors from the branch under gunicorn.
<ev> - Ressurected the test harness for daisy. Cleaned up and got working again.
<ev>   Expanded to include pyflakes tests. Made the harness safer (refuses to run
<ev>   against production) and easier to use.
<ev> - Reverted back to using GDBus in whoopsie at the request of Seb. Fixed the
<ev>   GVariant memory leaks that prompted the move to libnm in the first place. I'm
<ev>   worried that we're kicking the can on this one, but I have no time to fix
<ev>   this myself so we'll just have to leave it for now.
<ev> - Created a single point for nagios checks of the lp:errors service at
<ev>   http://errors.ubuntu.com/status/. This avoids having to deal with OpenID as
<ev>   part of the nagios curl and lets us expand the set of running system tests
<ev>   without needing to make changes to canonical-memento.
<ev> - Researching the just released Cassandra 1.2.2 authentication. Works a treat.
<ev>   Started writing up an RT to move us to it as 1.2.2 is a dependency for our
<ev>   custom comparator and simplifies our Cassandra deployment in production and
<ev>   prodstack (we can rely on the Apache packaged deb rather than rolling our
<ev>   own).
<ev> - Started planning the move from NFS for core file storage to Swift with jjo:
<ev>   https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/document/d/1m_UTdqepyCgLR68lRzccilasqhPR7Z8Z7K7DzXZGzWI/edit
<ev>   This will make the transition to prodstack easier. We can very easily deploy
<ev>   some retracers in prodstack once this is in place.
<ev> - Discovered bugs in our custom dpkg version type comparator. Fixed.
<ev> - Packaged our custom comparator. Java and Debian seem to have mututal disdain
<ev>   for each other, but at least the Debian Java tooling is getting better.
<ev> - Code review for Brian.
<ev> - Finished background investigation for the bucketversions repopulation. It was
<ev>   originally going to take 20 days to run - which I don't have - but I managed
<ev>   to knock it down to an estimated 9 hours by caching the entire mapping of
<ev>   stacktrace address signatures to crash signatures in memory (4-6GB). Public
<ev>   service announcement: nosql is not RDBMS, random lookups are *slow*. This is
<ev>   why they say denormalise and put data physically close. Being able to
<ev>   distribute to many workers (hi Hadoop) would have also made this easier.
<ev>   Waiting for Cassandra 1.2.2 and the new comparator to land before running
<ev>   this in write mode.
<ev> BLOCKED:
<ev> - RT 57881. Need an openstack user so tarmac can deploy the infrastructure as
<ev>   part of MP-landing tests.
<ev> (done!)
<doko> - update_excuses: got cmake and libarchive from proposed into raring, touched some cogle stuff, removed some php-horde packages
<doko> - fixed all known GCC 4.8 build failures (~20) in main
<doko> - filed GCC 4.8 and eglibc 2.17 ftbfs issues for Debian
<doko> - updated GCC 4.8
<doko> - fixed cross ld to lookup /usr/<triplet>/lib
<doko> - new upstream versions for boehm-gc and guile-2.0, guile-2.0 now builds on armhf. i
<doko> nvestigating demotion of guile-1.8 and promotion of guile-2.0 (aisleriot autogen graphviz swig2.0)
<doko> - new libvigraimpex, fixing ftbfs
<doko> - fixed qt4-x11 headers not to cause build failures with GCC 4.8
<doko> - looked at boost, and what to do ... looks like 1.53 is the way to go ... pestered
<slangasek> ev: consolekit?  How is consolekit even in the equation?
<doko> xnox about it
<doko> - looked at blhc intergration for lp builds
<doko> done
<ev> slangasek: I thought that's where things exploded when whoopsie did dbus service activation of network-manager?
<stgraber> Feature work:
<stgraber>  - Upstart (BLUEPRINT: foundations-r-upstart-user-session-enhancements)
<stgraber>   - Fixed some upstream tests that caused the build to hang.
<stgraber>   - Updated the PPA with current upstream.
<stgraber>   - All branches have now been merged upstream, just waiting for more testing before pushing out 1.7.
<slangasek> ev: whoopsie can't do dbus service activation of NM
<stgraber>  - Container (BLUEPRINT: servercloud-r-lxc)
<stgraber>   - Usual code review.
<stgraber>   - Started looking at/discussing replacing uchroot by lxc on the phablet.
<stgraber>   - Looked into a JuJu breakage caused by 0.9~alpha3. Turned out to be them setting PYTHONPATH which caused our python3 script to fail badly.
<stgraber>   - Looked into a container/kernel bug leading to inotify watches exhaustion.
<slangasek> NM isn't configured to /allow/ dbus activation
<stgraber>  - Networking (BLUEPRINT: foundations-r-networking)
<stgraber>   - Merged isc-dhcp.
<stgraber>   - Tested and applied a bunch of infiniband patches to our isc-dhcp, now uploaded to raring.
<stgraber> Other work:
<stgraber>  - Tested logind without user cgroups, worked fine.
<stgraber>  - Tested patched update-manager.
<stgraber>  - Long DMB meeting on Monday
<stgraber>  - Networking
<stgraber>   - Added a ton of debug statements to NetworkManager in the hope of tracking down that weird segfault, not much luck yet, planning on doing some more of that tomorrow.
<stgraber> TODO:
<stgraber>  - Work some more on Xsession integration for upstart user sessions, coming up with something ready for archive upload.
<xnox> slangasek: sure but the original bug report was that ubiquity tries to request a consolekit session which timed out and crashed lubuntu as you were investigating =)
<stgraber>  - Continue the ofono/NM work.
<stgraber>  - Try to finish any LXC feature work for this cycle (1 item left).
<stgraber> (DONE)
<slangasek> (there's no .service file for it)
<ev> hm
<xnox> yeah and no .service file for consolekit either.
<xnox> (if i looked that up correctly)
<slangasek> xnox: well, I don't know why consolekit is timing out, but that seems unrelated to the issue we were seeing with the whoopsie change slowing down boot
<xnox> true the piled up issues can be co-incidental
<slangasek> oh, they might have the same root cause
<slangasek> I just don't think consolekit has anything to do with the root cause
<xnox> ok.
<slangasek> anyways
<stgraber> isn't consolekit going away anyway? :)
<slangasek> any questions on status?
<slangasek> stgraber: hopefully... :)
<slangasek> (does ubiquity need porting to logind, or does everything Just Work?)
<ogra_> haha
<cjwatson> It has some explicit consolekit code
<xnox> slangasek: it will crash and load full user session, so it will all just work.
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> heh
<cjwatson> Not lots
<xnox> slangasek: integration will be needed to use ubiquity-only mode.
<slangasek> ok
<cjwatson> (About a dozen lines)
<slangasek> so, we probably want to blueprint consolekit->logind
<cjwatson> At vUDS, presumably
 * slangasek takes that action item
<slangasek> cjwatson: yep, probably
<xnox> slangasek: when logind lands for normal sessions we just copy/paste mimic what's there and if it's needed to start a user-session dbus and the like.
<slangasek> xnox: logind is unrelated to the user session dbus?
 * xnox ponders what timezones vUDS will be in.
<slangasek> xnox: 4pm-something pm UTC
<barry_> 10pm
<barry_> 4pm-10pm
<slangasek> (was listed in the announcement)
<ogra_> yeah, asia will love us
<slangasek> so everyone get ready to shift your sleep schedules for next week
<xnox> to be honest I'm not sure which piece of ubiquity-dm sessions needs console kit.
<slangasek> ogra_: because they have to get up in the middle of the night instead of traveling 24h and suffering jet lag? ;P
 * barry_ gets to sleep in :)
<ogra_> well, but they usually get free beer abnd food for that
<slangasek> heh
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
<slangasek> bdmurray: anything of interest?
<slangasek> the lsb_release crasher keeps cropping up... it definitely seems related to teamviewer, but I have no idea how
<bdmurray> I found bug 1120322 rather high on errors
<ubottu> bug 1120322 in aptdaemon (Ubuntu Precise) "update-manager crashed with UnboundLocalError in show_diff(): local variable 'line_number' referenced before assignment" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1120322
<slangasek> hmm, how high?
<bdmurray> affecting a fair number precise uers
<slangasek> show_diff() sounds like it's related to conffiles?
<bdmurray> 12k reports
<cjwatson> conffiles> yes
<barry_> probably a fairly simple programming bug
<bdmurray> it looks reather easy see comment #4
<slangasek> yeah... if it's easy to pick off then we might as well, but otherwise it doesn't seem like it should be a super-high priority
<slangasek> as most users should never see conffile prompts in the first place
<barry_> i could look at it tomorrow
<slangasek> barry_: thanks
<xnox> when looking at jenkins upgrade tests there is a fair amount of configuration files left after clean lucid -> precise and oneiric -> precise, after a quick check they do not seem to have been resolved for raring either. Do we just wait for them to time out, or shall we be fixing them in raring and SRU rm_conffile into precise as well?
<xnox> (not directly related to above discussion, but ogra_ qa stopped filing individual bugs about those & only jenkins results are available)
<bdmurray> all the crashes seem to be when dealing with steam
<ogra_> hmm
<slangasek> xnox: I don't think we'll manage to get those all fixed for upgrades to precise, this far after the fact; I would prefer to focus on just getting and keeping the jenkins report clean in raring
<xnox> the desktop upgrades have the most.
<slangasek> xnox: "most"> how many are we talking about?  I remember it being <5 when precise released
<xnox> slangasek: precise->raring upgrade or lucid->precise->raring upgrade? Cause a clean install of e.g. quantal & upgrade to raring has indeed very little forgotten conffiles.
<xnox> slangasek: let me look up how many.
<slangasek> bdmurray: ah, is steam munging its own conffiles maybe?
<ogra_> does it even have any system conffiles ?
<bdmurray> slangasek: perhaps
<bdmurray> it was a sources.list file
 * slangasek nods
<slangasek> xnox: whichever upgrade paths ->raring we test in jenkins
 * ogra_ has nothing in /etc that looks steam related
<stgraber> ogra_: even in /etc/apt/sources.list.d ?
<slangasek> bdmurray: other bugs?
<stgraber> ogra_: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/steam.list
<xnox> oneiric -> precise has 15 packages: https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/precise-upgrade-oneiric-main/392/ARCH=amd64,LTS=non-lts,PROFILE=main-all,label=upgrade-test/artifact/results/obsolete_conffiles.log
<ogra_> stgraber, ah, yeah. i was looking for something like /etc/steam and /etc/default/steam
<bdmurray> bug 1132918
<ubottu> bug 1132918 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Ubiquity crashes after user creation" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1132918
<xnox> lucid-> precise a few more https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/precise-upgrade-lucid-main/ARCH=amd64,LTS=lts,PROFILE=main-all,label=upgrade-test/394/artifact/results/obsolete_conffiles.log
<bdmurray> a UnicodeDecode error with the progress
<xnox> raring so far has in two packages: https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/raring-upgrade-quantal-desktop/ARCH=amd64,LTS=non-lts,PROFILE=desktop,label=upgrade-test/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/results/obsolete_conffiles.log
<slangasek> phooey, will we ever be done with unicode bugs?
<barry_> is it py3? <wink>
<slangasek> barry_: yes :/
<cjwatson> barry_: aptdaemon> I suspect that it shouldn't enter those last two blocks unless line_number has been set properly yet, since diff hunks always start with @@?
<barry_> cjwatson: net very limited, could you comment on the bug?
<barry_> thanks!
<xnox> the weird thing about bug 1132918 is that user is in Estonian locale and the upgrade status/progress doesn't make sence, cause it's prefixed with 0 everywhere.....
<ubottu> bug 1132918 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Ubiquity crashes after user creation" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1132918
<cjwatson> k
<cjwatson> Estonian locale is notable for weird collation IIRC
<cjwatson> It's a particular one which tends to expose lack of LC_COLLATE=C
<cjwatson> Though I guess maybe not in this cas
<slangasek> xnox: looks to me like bugs should be filed on compiz-gnome and cups, then.  Though, the cups one is strange, I don't see why those conffiles should have gone away, I suspect they were dropped by a bug in the packaging
<cjwatson> e
<cjwatson> I could have sworn I got apt_pkg.size_to_str fixed ages ago though ...
<xnox> slangasek: they moved to a different package name and dpkg doesn't have a sensible way of moving a conffile to a new package.
<cjwatson> Ah, no, it needs to be fixed in callers
<slangasek> xnox: those conffiles are shown on my system as still owned by cups, and obsolete
<cjwatson> See bug 1031882
<ubottu> bug 1031882 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Quantal) "precise->quantal upgrade fails, with a UnicodeDecodeError" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1031882
<slangasek> xnox: I think the packaging split screwed up and dropped the conffiles on the floor
<xnox> slangasek: 0_0 ok.
<cjwatson> So I'll take that bug since I know the drill from before
<slangasek> cjwatson: thanks
<cjwatson> (Time-honoured technique: when you vaguely remember something, google for the function name plus your own name ...)
<xnox> =))))))))))))))))))))))) lol
<xnox> it's like Dumbledore's bucket of memories.
<bdmurray> then bug 1131761 which recently came in
<ubottu> bug 1131761 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "ubi-partman fails with exit code 141 when setting up crypted partitioned installation" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1131761
<slangasek> I tried to do that for PHP's unixtojd function yesterday and it didn't work, I suspect PHP upstream has declared bug bankruptcy at some point :)
<cjwatson> That one I'm *not* taking :)
<slangasek> xnox: ^^ yours, then? :)
<xnox> yeah.
<bdmurray> that's all from me
<slangasek> bdmurray: cool, thanks
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else?
<ogra_> should we have beer hangouts at the vUDS ?
<xnox> ogra_: i was pondering to show up in the office =)
<slangasek> at home, or do we go to a pub with our webcams to do it?
 * jodh worries about virtual hot-tubs and the server team...
<ogra_> xnox, so you would have to run the hangout with 9 others and get really drunk over there
<ogra_> and the community can participate from home ;)
 * cjwatson wonders if the pub's wifi is faster than mine
 * slangasek grins
<doko> I was looking at obsoleting old versions of stuff ...
<xnox> doko: specifically?
<doko> looks like nobody else is interested :-/
<doko> xnox, boost ;-)
<xnox> I'm sure Laney will join us in a beer hangout.
<doko> guile, ruby, tcl
<xnox> doko: ok. I know micahg wants to get rid of the acient sqlite as well.
<doko> guile almost done,
<doko> I would like to track these, or ask people to handle one of these ...
 * Laney eyes xnox
<doko> ruby1.8 is a pita currently
 * doko doko eyes Laney/ghc
<slangasek> isn't the transition tracker for this?
<xnox> for some things yes, but not all.
<slangasek> I thought it was for the things that developers said they would like to track
<xnox> cjwatson: can please please move old trackers into a subfolder in http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/transitions/ those that are not updated by cron any more?
<xnox> or Laney if you have access.
<Laney> xnox: care to update the script to do that?
<cjwatson> I'm hoping that since I gave other people access they can maintain it
<xnox> Laney: ok.
<doko> slangasek, not sure how it can be used to drop an old (non-default) version
<Laney> see /srv/lucid-somestuff on lillypilly to find it
<cjwatson> Pretty sure Laney has direct access, but yeah, better to make the script do it
<Laney> I'll blat it in when you give it to me
<xnox> doko: with good enough gerexp we can track to drop anything, ben rocks.
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Feb 27 16:58:20 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-02-27-16.04.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-02-27-16.04.html
<slangasek> thanks everyone :)
<jodh> thanks
<barry_> thanks! see you tomorrow
<ogra_> thanks !"
<xnox> cheers
<ev> thanks
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-02-28
<jaakko_kui> hi
<mandel> jaakko_kui, o/ ready to start getting things rolling?
<jaakko_kui> yes
<jaakko_kui> but  a simple todo list needed ?
<mandel> jaakko_kui, lets wait for the other two, this channels seems to be a better place, else the conversation is hard to have
<fmunozs> hello
<mandel> jaakko_kui, I think so, we might agree on this things here, then we can add a branch with and MP with the TODO :)
<mandel> fmunozs, hola!
<jaakko_kui> hola
<mandel> gatox, fmunozs, jaakko_kui so we all know each other more or less (at least what we mentioned in the email)
<jaakko_kui> yep
<mandel> I think the best way to start is to consider how to reuse the code that we already have
<jaakko_kui> agreed
<robru> is this the twitter thing?
<mandel> I like the idea of jaakko_kui and me doing the cpp code and fmunozs and gatox the qml
<mandel> robru, yes
<jaakko_kui> is cpp allowed ?
<jaakko_kui> js?
<robru> mandel, ok, great. I just wanted to point out to everybody that 90% of the work of authentication to twitter and caching downloaded messages has already been done
<mandel> jaakko_kui, yes, zoltan recommends to use as much qml js as possible
<gatox> jaakko_kui, we need cpp for the keyring stuff and other apis
<robru> so all you really need to do is a frontend
<jaakko_kui> wow great
<mandel> robru, where?
<robru> mandel, lp:friends
<fmunozs> mandel, I think dennyabrain is part of the team too btw
<dennyabrain> ya i am
<robru> lp:friends was born from the ashes of gwibber. it started off as a python3 port and then slowly became a complete rewrite. it supports facebook, twitter, flickr, foursquare, and identica so far.
<jaakko_kui> welcome :)
<mandel> robru, well that is just great, but does it use the twitter rest apis?
<dennyabrain> thank you :)
<mandel> robru, what lang does it use?
<robru> mandel, yes it does use REST APIs, just not the realtime one
<mandel> robru, as in, no python on the phone, sorry
<mandel> robru, ok, so no support for streams, right?
<robru> mandel, it's written in python, but it's not a long-running process. it uses dbus activation to only start when needed.
<mandel> dennyabrain, uh, did I forget about you, sorry!
<robru> mandel, there is support for streams.
<mandel> robru, that is the problem, I was told by the phone team no to use python although python2 and 3 are there...
<robru> mandel, lol, we are already using this on the phone.
<dennyabrain> no problem, mandel :)
<mandel> not that I have anything against python
<robru> mandel, lp:friends is already being used by the share app for photo uploads.
<mandel> racedo, agh, messy canonical...
<robru> mandel, we have qml bindings in lp:qml-friends
<mandel> dennyabrain, so, I guess that you have to introduce yourself to the others :)
<fmunozs> that's what I supposed, the sharing framework should have relations with the twitter and Facebook app somehow
<dennyabrain> umm well i dont know what to say exactly :P
<mandel> robru, so at the end, they decided to push for cpp but then used python.. bloody hell
<robru> mandel, this project was actually started by barry warsaw some time ago, then I was hired to complete it.
<mandel> robru, very well, then I see is waaaaaaya to many people to do just a frontend... but ok
<robru> mandel, we are using vala to handle some of the performance-critical stuff and to keep memory usage under control. it's fairly optimised at this point
<mandel> dennyabrain, small background is enough
<mandel> robru, very well, so we only have to deal with streams witch we may want if we port this to a desktop and deal with the dbus bindings..
<dennyabrain> Ok I am an engineer by training and currently working as an interaction designer. I have experience developing interactive applications especially with a focus on sound using c++, processing and arduino
<mandel> fmunozs, jaakko_kui, gatox, dennyabrain does what I said make sense?
<mandel> dennyabrain, awesome, were are you based, I'd like to have piple to work together if they are in the sime time zone :)
<fmunozs> not sure what do you mean with streams, but yea, I see that most of the backend code is already developed by robru
<robru> mandel, yeah, so if you want to play around with friends you can get some packages from ppa:super-friends/ppa.
<dennyabrain> I am in India right now
<robru> fmunozs, mandel, so yeah, our twitter support is not 100%, in particular we are missing photo uploads, so if somebody wanted to work on that, that would be super.
<dennyabrain> not sure if anyone else in the team is from around :)
<mandel> robru, that ppa, does it support armf (I suppose that the vala bits need to be compiled in the right arc)
<robru> mandel, yes, we should have arm builds on there.
<fmunozs> robru,  it's good to know that it supports identica too as some have already asked for it
<mandel> dennyabrain, so jaakko_kui and I are in europe and gatox and fmunozs in america (latin)
<dennyabrain> ok.
<mandel> fmunozs, I'd say, lets assume we only deal with twitter atm
<mandel> :)
<robru> fmunozs, yes, the identica support is beautiful. it subclasses twitter and changes the URLs. very elegant ;-)
<mandel> fmunozs, one step at a time
<dennyabrain> time is gonna be a problem then :)
<fmunozs> mandel, sure
<mandel> dennyabrain, not really, I work at crazy times :)
<dennyabrain> well yeah same here, so i guess nothing unworkable then :P
<mandel> jaakko_kui, how do you see the idea of reusing lp:friends, it does make perfect sense
<jaakko_kui> could be ok, not really know about it
<jaakko_kui> i should study it
<robru> mandel, jaakko_kui fmunozs : if you reuse lp:friends, all you have to do is develop a frontend that displays tweets, all the message downloading and caching is already handled in a nice way.
<mandel> jaakko_kui, so there goes an item for the list => Look at lp:friends and decide what is the best course of action :)
<mandel> robru, yep, we still need cpp for the dbus calls
<gatox> mandel, jaakko_kui dennyabrain fmunozs sorry........ in a meeting..... i'll read everything after the meeting
<jaakko_kui> ok
<fmunozs> robru, does it handle private messages?
<robru> fmunozs, yeah
<mandel> robru, AFAIK there are no QML bindings for it, fmunozs is that correct?
<robru> mandel, we already provide qml bindings at lp:qml-friends. so you don't even need to make dbus calls directly
<mandel> so we are 5 people for just the front end..
<robru> ;-)
<mandel> when we could be doing two core apps instead of a single one...
<robru> well, lp:friends also supports facebook. why don't a couple of you do the facebook app?
<mandel> robru, we might want to use lp:friends, test it all the way and add streams to it
<robru> mandel, yes please, patches welcome. there is a concept of streams in place already, feel free to expand it to your needs.
<mandel> robru, makes sense
<mandel> fmunozs, gatox, can you guys work together regarding the initial ui
<mandel> fmunozs, dennyabrain can you take a look at lp:friends, check if the ppa generates the .deb for armf and if we can use it
<fmunozs> robru, there is a different team for Facebook, I suppose they will have to contact you or redo most of your work by themselves
<mandel> I'll ping around to the phablet team regarding the use of lp:friends, but as robru mentioned, it makes no sense not to use it
<robru> if you guys have questions about the qml bindings, I recommend speaking to ken.vandine@canonical.com, he wrote them. I know more just about the python backend.
<mandel> fmunozs, exactly, I'll speak with dpm about this
<mandel> fmunozs, jaakko_kui, gatox ok, I think we have enough to start with, lets try to see if lp:friends is the right tool and the guys in the phablet have nothing against it (I have no reason to doubt robru I'm just surprised this was not communicated)
<jaakko_kui> ok
<robru> yeah, internal communications has been a bit weak, sorry guys ;-)
<fmunozs> we need to  check what is missing from it (i.e photo uploading as mentioned by robru)
<mandel> jaakko_kui, since you have no experience with bzr do you want to create a bzr branch with the todo and do a merge proposal
<mandel> jaakko_kui, seems like a good way to gt you started :)
<jaakko_kui> ok
<mandel> fmunozs, yes, I think jaakko_kui and dennyabrain can deal with that, I will deal with politics..
<jaakko_kui> i try :)
<robru> fmunozs, we already support photo uploading for facebook and flickr, just not twitter yet
<mandel> fmunozs, gatox you guys start doing designs and try to merge ideas from the diff work we have so far
<fmunozs> ok!
<mandel> fmunozs, jaakko_kui, dennyabrain, gatox confirmed by the phablet team, they  use friends, so we stick with it
<dennyabrain> ok
<mandel> do lets do as planned, 2 for the ui, 2 to investigate the lib
<mandel> dennyabrain, jaakko_kui, gatox, fmunozs for you info I have nothing because I'm off to holidays in the mountains so no internet connection :-/
<mandel> once I'm back I'll help dennyabrain and jaakko_kui, sounds reasonable?
<fmunozs> sounds good
<dennyabrain> ya
<jaakko_kui> ok :)
<mandel> dennyabrain, fmunozs, jaakko_kui, gatox awesome! can you guys send me your blogs etc.. I want do do some announcements and add details about you (mail me to manuel@canonical.com)
<mandel> will update the wiki to point you as the official developers of the app etc..
<jaakko_kui> ok
<dennyabrain> ok. will do
<mandel> superb
<mandel> I'll send an update to the mailing list about this and will set a new meeting for tuesday, sounds good?
<mandel> I'll try to be there but I can't promise a thing
<dennyabrain> sure.
<jaakko_kui> ok
<mandel> jaakko_kui, once you have done the mp please add me as a reviewer in case there is something to help you with, but I'm sure you will be fine
<jaakko_kui> ok :)
<mandel> jaakko_kui, dennyabrain, fmunozs, gatox catch you all later then o/
<dennyabrain> bye
<fmunozs> thanks, i'll send you my details later today!
<fmunozs> bye
<jaakko_kui> bye
 * pleia2 waves
<jbicha> o/
<dholbach> heya
<beuno> o/
<jbicha> I hope I'm not the only one here from Docs
<pleia2> I think hannie is from manual and phillw from wiki
<hannie> pleia2, correct, hi to all
<jbicha> ok that helps :)
<czajkowski> aloha
<dsmythies> I am here for serverguide (but never been to any meeting or even IRC before)
<czajkowski> thanks for coming folks
<pleia2> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Feb 28 17:04:08 2013 UTC.  The chair is pleia2. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<pleia2> #chair czajkowski dholbach cprofitt
<meetingology> Current chairs: cprofitt czajkowski dholbach pleia2
<pleia2> #chair YokoZar Gwaihir
<meetingology> Current chairs: Gwaihir YokoZar cprofitt czajkowski dholbach pleia2
<pleia2> there we go
<czajkowski> smart ;)
<pleia2> #topic Docs team catch-up
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Docs team catch-up
<Gwaihir> o/
<pleia2> #chair beuno
<meetingology> Current chairs: Gwaihir YokoZar beuno cprofitt czajkowski dholbach pleia2
<czajkowski> lol
<pleia2> so at these catch-ups with teams we pretty much just check in to see how things are going, if there are blockers or anything we can help with
<pleia2> jbicha: can you tell us a bit about how core "official docs we ship" are doing?
<jbicha> like many areas of Ubuntu, we are undermanned
<jbicha> I think for the Ubuntu Desktop docs though, we are critically undermanned
<jbicha> I am intending to resign from being the defacto Docs lead this week, both because I have too many responsibilities now and to make it a little more obvious that we need help
<jbicha> I'll be available for the next month or so to help with transition if anyone else wants to jump in
<pleia2> seeing that there are folks working on the wiki and other projects springing up like ubuntu-manual, do you think it may partially be an onboarding issue?
<dholbach> jbicha, are there others in the team who have taken on leadership roles or started to take care of some of the organisation?
<jbicha> I believe other parts are doing a little better (Server docs & the Manual)
<beuno> jbicha, interesting, do you have a feeling as to why?
<pleia2> (I have seen concerns that "docs are too hard to get involved with")
<jbicha> dholbach: for ubuntu-docs itself, not really, just look at the commit log: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/ubuntu-docs/quantal
<phillw> o/
<jbicha> mdke is still sort of around and he's nearly an expert at this but he's been less active than he used to be
<YokoZar> I have heard in multiple places now that the easier you make doc contributing the more likely you are to get results (eg more like wikipedia and less like...well the rest of Ubuntu)
<dholbach> is there some kind of TODO list for the docs project?
<jbicha> ubuntu-docs (and similarly for the server guide or xubuntu, kubuntu, etc.) does require a fair bit of knowledge: the format (docbook or mallard) is similarish to html but different, bzr and LP have a rough learning curve (even though they are easier than some things), good English skills, and you have to know your topic or devote time to learn it
<pleia2> jbicha: is there a "how to contribute" page that defines the skills needed and gives links to resources?
<phillw> yeah, I'm not looking forward to bzr and LP :/ Once I've mastered it, I may be help out a bit for obvious typos etc.
<jbicha> dholbach: not really, there's some LP bugs and the regular "figure out what's different in Ubuntu this cycle and make updates"
<dholbach> pleia2, there's https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Jams/Docs I know of
<jbicha> pleia2: it's a bit out-dated but there's some things at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/
<dholbach> which might be nice for this weekend
<pleia2> yeah, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Organization#Requirements_for_Ubuntu_Documentation_Committers doesn't even mention mallard
<jbicha> for mallard, #docs on irc.gnome.org can help a lot, we've effectively needed to fork the GNOME Desktop Guide for the Ubuntu one any way
<pleia2> jbicha: if I drafted some easier instructions, would you be willing to review them so we can get this updated?
<jbicha> http://projectmallard.org/
<jbicha> pleia2: yes I should be able to review that
<hannie> At the manual we use bzr and LP. There are extensive instructions on the manual side and newcomers can ask help via mailing list
<hannie> *site
<pleia2> (I've been interested in improving this for a while, worked with j1mc a few UDSs ago but unfortunately didn't make a huge amount of progress and he's mostly moved on)
<jbicha> the other problem is that when you have people that learn bzr and lp too well, they may jump into contributing elsewhere (like I did)
<pleia2> hannie: yeah, I think that helps a lot (and I'll take a look at those again :))
<hannie> It really works
<jbicha> j1mc might come back if we need him, I think he just thought it's more useful to contribute upstream
<pleia2> jbicha: yeah, that's the impression I got
<jbicha> he also went against the grain and switched from XFCE *to* GNOME when GNOME Shell came out
<pleia2> hehe
 * pleia2 just added the Unity keybindings to her Xfce
<YokoZar> I am beginning to think most people don't quite get the difference between docs and the manual
<YokoZar> or even help.ubuntu.com
<pleia2> the docs are help.ubuntu.com :)
<jbicha> also if anyone's interested in docs, check out http://openhelpconference.com/ I went last year and it was great, even though it was in Ohio, we had several from Canada and a few from Europe and even further come
<pleia2> /community is the wiki
<Gwaihir> I think there is some confusion between wiki, the help we ship in the distro, and the manual project
<YokoZar> It seems intuitive to only expect one writing source
<jbicha> it's run by shaunm, the guy who created Mallard for GNOME
<jbicha> bkerensa was working on adding yet another help source using the Mozilla Support framework but that may have been abandoned by now
<pleia2> jbicha: what does a release cycle for docs look like?
<jbicha> historically we don't necessarily do much until Feature Freeze or UI Freeze, and then it's a mad dash to get things done before Docs Freeze
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> so I'm thinking the rest of the cycle is good time to start getting people up to speed with how to use tools, fixing small errors and things we know changed
<dholbach> the current discussion on u-devel@ might benefit the docs team then? :)
<beuno> jbicha, had any time to reflect how rolling releases is going to affect this?  :)
 * beuno high-fives dholbach 
<dholbach> beuno, o/ \o
<jbicha> beuno: well at least we don't have to worry about the version number being out of date...
<dholbach> what do you think might be a good way to recruit new doc team members?
<jbicha> it would also allow someone to contribute at any time and get their work in to Ubuntu fairly quickly
<jbicha> but I'm not sure the translators will be very thrilled about that..
<pleia2> yeah, I'm thinking docs may still need to stay on some sort of freeze schedule for translators
<pleia2> even if it turns into yearly
<jbicha> I'm figuring that we'll have some sort of train like the mozilla train and docs freeze may be on the early side to give docs translators time
<hannie> Translators usually finish the GUI first, before they start with docs
<YokoZar> I'm more worried that without a regular release process we'll simply lose track of what is and isn't irrelevant
<YokoZar> So, say new feature X lands in Ubuntu some day; I don't think it's part of anyone's process to go "hmm X replaced Y, we better mark the docs for Y as needing update" or whatever
<YokoZar> and indeed the feature landing in Raring may be the first opportunity the docs team has to actually document it!
<YokoZar> *raring = rolling current unstable
<pleia2> does anyone else attending this meeting have comments about the current status of the doc team? (or Ubuntu docs in general?)
<YokoZar> As an upstream Wine guy, I will say that when we moved our FAQ from source control to a wiki it became less than 5 years out of date
<YokoZar> wikis have dead pages and obsolete pages and all that entails, of course, but the FAQ itself was reasonably updated
<pleia2> the community-maintained docs are pretty extensitive (though there is still a lot that's unmaintained, the wiki team has a tagging system to identify out of date pages)
<hannie> Can anyone give me a link to docs-wiki?
<pleia2> hannie: help.ubuntu.com/community
<hannie> thanks
<phillw> o/
<phillw> back a while back, there was discussion of having the ability to convert from wiki format to docbook / mallard.... did anything come of this?
<phillw> I know there is a convert routine from Vbulletin (forum) to wiki that is up and running.
<hannie> you mean https://launchpad.net/~ubforums2ubwiki
<phillw> hannie: I assume so, I know of it from the forum guys doing a convert of a tutorial for lubuntu into wiki format (I think we were one of the guinea pigs).
<YokoZar> I seem to remember some people saying the migration tools for wiki -> mallard weren't the best
<phillw> YokoZar: okies, thanks. Just a line of thought I had :)
<YokoZar> phillw: Yeah I think it would be quite nice if that was the workflow and only one person had to bother with mass script conversion, but it doesn't seem to be the case.
<phillw> yeah, I have yet to endure learning  bzr / LP / commits etc. But it is on my list of things to do.
<YokoZar> It's certainly easier for a less technical person to edit a wiki page and review it periodically than to decipher a new format, bzr, and our merge process
<pleia2> for the xubuntu docs rewrite last year we did a mostly manual moin to docbook conversion, it got the docs written (woo, goal!) but docbook conversion fell to one guy and I'm glad it wasn't me :)
<hannie> phillw, you can always ask help on ubuntu-manual@lists.launchpad.net
<pleia2> phillw: it's less scary once you just dive in, and there are lots of people in the community who can help :)
<phillw> hannie: I've got to learn the quality system 1st, but I'm sure most of that will transfer over.
<phillw> pleia2: nicholas skaggs has wriiten up some tutorials for me to follow :)
<pleia2> yay
<phillw> I'm sure they would be of use to help updating the 'intoduction to docs' team as well.
<hannie> Has anyone thought of using LaTeX?
<YokoZar> pleia2: that seems like something that might be partially automateable
<pleia2> YokoZar: yeah, it was "mostly manual" so there was a script that caught a lot of things but then manual fixing of a lot
<cprofitt> very good conversation about the docs team
<cprofitt> Gwaihir: sorry for scrolling back, but I agree that many do not understand the difference between the manual and the wiki
<hannie> What do you mean by "difference"? there is no relation between manual and wiki
<cprofitt> hannie: exactly that
<cprofitt> the team has people who work on one or the other, or both
<cprofitt> but many people looking to join do not realize that both the wiki and the manual are part of the docs team
<cprofitt> they are familiar with one or the other of the resources
<cprofitt> other people think they have to do both to be on the docs team
<pleia2> I don't think the manual is strictly part of the ubuntu doc team
<pleia2> the doc team governs official docs that are shipped (and posted to help.ubuntu.com) and the community maintained help wiki at help.ubuntu.com/community
<hannie> Ok, I see what you mean. Can you use the Ubuntu weekly to do some explaning on manual and wiki, and contributors needed?
<hannie> *explaining
<pleia2> hannie: if you give me a blog post link, we'll include it :)
<pleia2> (or if you need me to blog about it, I could use some reviewers)
<dholbach> is there anything you feel the CC could help you with?
<hannie> pleia2, I mean someone from the docs team should write an article on this for the Ubuntu weekly
<pleia2> hannie: oh, I see
<pleia2> I'll see about writing something up
<cprofitt> this wiki page does a nice job, but many do not find it
<cprofitt> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Organization
<pleia2> yeah, perhaps just pointing that out would be enough
<pleia2> hannie: can I bug you to do a review once I have a draft to make sure it answers your questions?
<hannie> pleia2, sure
<pleia2> great
<pleia2> #action pleia2 to draft improvements to doc team getting involved and have jbicha review
<meetingology> ACTION: pleia2 to draft improvements to doc team getting involved and have jbicha review
<pleia2> #action pleia2 to draft blog post explaining parts of the ubuntu doc team
<meetingology> ACTION: pleia2 to draft blog post explaining parts of the ubuntu doc team
<pleia2> no more actions for pleia2
<pleia2> anyone else have any comments before we wrap this up?
<pleia2> I'm very glad we had this conversation, thanks everyone :)
<jbicha> pleia2: thank you
<dholbach> yes, thanks a lot everyone! and thanks for your hard work on this!
<phillw> nice to touch base with the others, thanks for arranging it pleia2
<hannie> do we get a link to the meeting logs shortly?
<phillw> hannie: as soon as the meeting ends :)
<hannie> right
<pleia2> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Feb 28 17:59:34 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-02-28-17.04.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-02-28-17.04.html
<pleia2> ^^ there you go :)
<YokoZar> Thank you guys :)
<hannie> pleia2, my email is hannie at ubuntu-nl.org
<pleia2> hannie: yep, I've got it :) thanks
<hannie> see you
<Fra_ButBut_> Hello
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-03-01
<seb128> hey
<seb128> sorry, I'm a bit late, having another of those crazy fridays... ;-)
<seb128> ogra_, hey, did you guys start?
<ogra_> oh, i totally forgot
<ogra_> no, nobody started (and i doubt anyone but us is here)
<seb128> k
<seb128> I was wondering if it makes sense to still keep those meeting
<seb128> or maybe we should retarget/refocus them
<ogra_> and i dont really have much to report, i worked a bit with Riddell on kubuntu active images
<seb128> yeah, week was crazy with other stuff for me as well
<ogra_> yeah, i doubt many people are still intrested after ubuntu touch released
<seb128> ubuntu touch, UDS preparation, rolling release discussions
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> same here
<ogra_> its probably intresting to know where we will go with this image though
<seb128> ogra_, seems it would be good to a weekly checkpoint for ubuntu touch work though?
<ogra_> do you have any idea about plans ?
<seb128> no
<seb128> I hope we have better ideas after next week UDS
<ogra_> ++ (though that needs to be coordinated with rsalveti i think)
<seb128> ok
<ogra_> let me chek if he has a moment to drop by here
<seb128> or let's just skip this one
<ogra_> ok
<seb128> and do a "where do we go" next week after UDS
<seb128> I will email ubuntu-devel@ to say that
<ogra_> ok, thanks a lot
<seb128> np!
<ogra_> :)
<rsalveti> +!
<rsalveti> +1 :-)
<rsalveti> for some reason I'm not receiving emails from ubuntu-devel anymore...
<ogra_> you probably do to much management nowadays ... do you get mails from ubuntu-management instead ?
<ogra_> :)
<rsalveti> ogra_: lol
<rsalveti> ogra_: same thing happened with Ursinha, no emails since feb 26
<rsalveti> annoying, since I'm not getting anything from the rolling release discussion :-)
<Ursinha> using the mailing list archive to follow the discussion, annoying indeed
<xnox> ogra_: seb128: well I had an automatic presseding blog post + upstart support to reboot back into fastboot mode. So one can fully automate flashing into/from phablet back to core image. (e.g. reboot -f recovery to get into clockwork recovery)
<xnox> apart from that, there is a spec to integrate phablet deploy into usb-creator that I am aware of, and that's it.
<ogra_> rsalveti, odd
<ogra_> xnox, well, i assume the final phablet images will actually use oem-config so thats a good thing we will re-use
<CrestedNewt> tgm4883 - mhall119 can;t make it I'm afraid. Bobweaver isn't here either :(
<tgm4883> this is all true
<CrestedNewt> Well not much to talk about but do you want me to start this?
<tgm4883> CrestedNewt, go ahead and start it.
<CrestedNewt> #startmeeting Ubuntu-TV Community Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Fri Mar  1 18:05:05 2013 UTC.  The chair is CrestedNewt. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu-TV Community Meeting Meeting | Current topic:
<CrestedNewt> OK, who is present for this meeting on Ubuntu TV?
<tgm4883> o/
<CrestedNewt> ME!
<CrestedNewt> OK, well it's just the 2 of us - reminds me of a song :D
<tgm4883> Bohemian Raphosody?
<CrestedNewt> From my end - ARM have failed to respond to me requesting info on a manufacturer in upstate NY for bobweaver.
<CrestedNewt> tw8 - will find the artist :D
<CrestedNewt> Bill Withers!!
<CrestedNewt> tgm4883 - do you know the status of bobweaver and the project?
<tgm4883> So from the Mythbuntu camp. We've been working on a quick start quide for setting up the backend portion. We've got a rough draft, but haven't found many people that want to review it
<CrestedNewt> What can I do?
<tgm4883> Review it, make sure it makes sense.
<tgm4883> You could go though the install, even if you don't have a tv tuner card
<CrestedNewt> OK, is this the latest branch?
<tgm4883> sec, let me grab the link
<tgm4883> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1eGJ8gGtRqFxQ8xVWlR6XgP6FAFJEVZ-Ntq_TT8XhWEs/edit?usp=sharing
<tgm4883> Note, that is the SHORT version that cuts out all the steps you don't need to change anything on (although I need to add transistional phrases for that)
<CrestedNewt> OK, I'll print this out and do the install
<tgm4883> This is the long version that includes every screen
<tgm4883> https://docs.google.com/document/d/19knOlqz8cV5_8VQ1tCvEd8tjEk6U50KsSOJCROR60o4/edit?usp=sharing
<tgm4883> The long version is 29 pages, so if we can make the short version make sense, I like it much better
<CrestedNewt> OK, I will make some time and install it probably on Monday.
<tgm4883> bobweaver status: he says he has left the project (and Ubuntu development in general). I believe this to be the case and that he will not be back
<CrestedNewt> such a shame! :(
<tgm4883> Ubuntu TV Status:
<tgm4883> Officially, there are apparently people inside canonical working on it
<CrestedNewt> Well without Bobweaver.... Status is DEAD IN THE WATER
<CrestedNewt> I sent this to bobweaver earlier in the week. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OyW6DO6gck
<tgm4883> Unofficially, I think the project is failing and without clear direction
<CrestedNewt> agreed. I may try and talk to popey on the phone or G Hangout with him
<tgm4883> That said, the Mythbuntu team will continue to develop our parts of the project, because A) we said we would, and B) what we are contributing can be used in regular Ubuntu Unity
<CrestedNewt> If there are ppl in Canonical working on this, we need to get them in here so that we know what is happening.
<tgm4883> I don't think that will happen
<CrestedNewt> I MUST Download MYTHBUNTU
<CrestedNewt> OK, so do we know what they are working on and what progress is being made?
<tgm4883> no
<CrestedNewt> what 'pot holes' are there?
<CrestedNewt> etc etc
<tgm4883> my gut feeling is that they are working on ubuntu touch, and that there is some overlap (eg. qml type stuff)
<CrestedNewt> OK, phone is sexy and it has stolen the show at the conference, but seeing that I am not a 'coder' I can't help too much in the development.
<CrestedNewt> However, if MYTH can be fully integrated into Unity, that is at least a way forward.
<tgm4883> Yes, scopes integrate quite well into Unity. The issue was getting Unity to be a 10' interface
<CrestedNewt> OK. A 10' display is not what most people have in their homes. great for 'billboards' etc but the target audience in my mind is home users
<tgm4883> 10' interface, not 10' display
<tgm4883> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10-foot_user_interface
<tgm4883> eg. you can comfortably operate it 10' away
<CrestedNewt> AHHH!! misunderstood that so I have learnt something new today
<CrestedNewt> OK, as a slight side issue.... what about using something like RDP (remote desktop) from a phone/tablet/laptop?
<CrestedNewt> or even having an apache web browser with appropriate commands that could be used from smartphone etc?
<tgm4883> you mean for control?
<CrestedNewt> yes
<tgm4883> doable, but better with an actual remote control
<tgm4883> the hurdle is getting Unity to a usable 10' display from a UX perspective
<tgm4883> well, and the backing code as well
<CrestedNewt> but for utilising the search facility, it would be better to have a keyboard rather than using txt-ing :D OK, understand that
<tgm4883> yes. Either a remote control with keyboard, or the ability to search on phone/tablet and play on screen
<tgm4883> or having a good onscreen search utility
<tgm4883> Unity actually would work fairly well for that
<tgm4883> since it does instant search
<CrestedNewt> yep but that isn't really what you are on about - let me have some thinging time
<CrestedNewt> as in what I said - I'm on about thinking about the UX
<CrestedNewt> I can try a few things out as we have a large screen in our living room and it is over 10' away
<tgm4883> What bobweaver had done previously would work well
<tgm4883> there is also a design spec for Ubuntu TV that was good
<CrestedNewt> I did ask Popey for a copy of that, but as yet....
<CrestedNewt> nothing
<tgm4883> I can get you a copy of that
<CrestedNewt> you should have my details from G+
<tgm4883> http://ubuntuone.com/1AmekwFL9IjJlfuc7Twl7m
<tgm4883> it's a PDF
<CrestedNewt> superb!!
<tgm4883> I like to think popey was doing his work to ensure that was ok to share publicly
<tgm4883> but it's already been shared publicly by the Ubuntu TV team via their blog
<CrestedNewt> OK, so then it's ok for me to have it.
<tgm4883> yep
<tgm4883> For reference, it was originally posted here
<tgm4883> http://www.doadjustyourset.com/2012/10/18/call-for-more-active-community-participation/
<CrestedNewt> I don't want to cause problems but I just want to get this on track. I have shown the demo to a few 'high end'installers and they are really interested
<CrestedNewt> Even if version 1 is a STB, so be it, at least it gets it out there
<CrestedNewt> After that, with the buzz from the phone, it should make people sit up
<CrestedNewt> and take notice
<CrestedNewt> OK, so this is what I will do for next week
<CrestedNewt> #action crestednewt Go through Documentation from tgm4883 and check both long and short versions
<meetingology> ACTION: crestednewt Go through Documentation from tgm4883 and check both long and short versions
<CrestedNewt> anything else?
<tgm4883> nope, that looks good
<CrestedNewt> okay, on that note I think that we are done here. If Canonical are doing things internally and we are not aware of it, I'm not sure about what we do as a community moving forwards
<CrestedNewt> or even if we are to be involved
<tgm4883> CrestedNewt, pretty much my thoughts exactly
<CrestedNewt> I got the feeling a couple of weeks ago that things are changing internally but the direction has yet to be decided. those are my feelings
<CrestedNewt> until these issues are resolved, I think that this as a 'separate project' is stuck in the water without a rudder
<CrestedNewt> because if things change again, people like bobweaver will not want to participate
<CrestedNewt> never mind. I'll let you know during the week how things went with the install
<CrestedNewt> on that note, are you happy that this meeting is closed?
<CrestedNewt> OK, meeting ended - thanks tgm4883! :D
<CrestedNewt> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Mar  1 18:47:34 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-03-01-18.05.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-03-01-18.05.html
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-03-02
<cjohnston> /77/77
<cjohnston> /55/
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-03-03
<fire> how much time is left for the derivative meeting to start ?
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-02-24
<tyhicks> hello!
<mdeslaur> \o
<mdeslaur> \o
<jdstrand> ok, let's try this again
<tyhicks> hello
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<jdstrand> seems we don't have our bot
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Announcements
<jdstrand> Thanks to Stefan Bader (smb) provided updates for precise-saucy for xen . Your work is very much appreciated and will keep Ubuntu users secure. Great job! :)
<mdeslaur> smb rocks \m/ \m/
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Review of any previous action items
<jdstrand> [ACTION] chrisccoulson to benchmark oxide and qtwebkit
<jdstrand> I know the benchmarks are done
<jdstrand> I didn't see the email, but could have missed it
<jdstrand> I think chrisccoulson may have stepped away since this is well past the sceduled time of the meeting, so I'll just add a new action
<jdstrand> [ACTION] chrisccoulson to send benchmarks email to list
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I'm in the happy place this week
<jdstrand> I've got quite a few updates assigned to me that I'll be working on
<jdstrand> and I've gotten a lot of miscellaneous stuff piled up to catch up on judging by my inbox
<jdstrand> two of those is updating the infographic confinement spec (it is changing again)
<jdstrand> and updating the scopes spec and following up with the scopes team
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm on triage this week
<mdeslaur> I have some ca-certificates updates that I need to double-check, and then I'll get the copied to -proposed for a couple of weeks
<mdeslaur> after that, I'm working on the CVE list which has gotten bigger since last week
<mdeslaur> I may also poke at debcompare some more...it's pretty good now
<mdeslaur> oh, btw, I've converted uvt to python3, so if it breaks, let me know
<mdeslaur> that's it from me
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up
<sbeattie> I'm on apparmor again this week.
<sbeattie> I'm working on a bit of fallout from landing the python tools to help sarnold with landing the updated package in ubuntu
<sbeattie> As well as the usual kernel testing bits for jjohansen's work
<sbeattie> I also need to update the apparmor daily recipe ppa, as it's failing due to the python stuff landing upstream
<sbeattie> I think that's it from me.
<sbeattie> tyhicks: you're up
<tyhicks> I'm currently looking into some kernel keyring oddities in Trusty
<tyhicks> it was noticed after the ecryptfs test suite started failing
<mdeslaur> hrm
<tyhicks> I've got a workaround in the test suite but now I'm working with dhowells (kernel keyring upstream) to figure out what is going on
<tyhicks> after that, I'll go back to getting a v2 of the dbus-daemon patches attached the upstream AA mediation bug
<tyhicks> I'm almost done with addressing all of Simon's feedback
<tyhicks> there's a lot of changes, but I've been testing as I go so there's not too much left
<jdstrand> tyhicks: I didn't follow along last week. I saw that the kdbus guys were like "it's fine for you to propose this for dbus-daemon, but it ain't gonna work for us", but didn't see dbus-daemon's comments
<tyhicks> if I can get all of that done, I want to circle back around and make sure we've got all of our kernel test failures on ppc straightened out
<jdstrand> tyhicks: so dbus-daemon upstream is generally ok with it? just need some touchups?
<tyhicks> jdstrand: yes, they seem to be ok with it
<tyhicks> jdstrand: all of the comments are in the bug
<jdstrand> ok
<jdstrand> tyhicks: re kdbus-- we still are going to propose our small patch, correct?
<mdeslaur> should we?
<tyhicks> jdstrand: it is something that we need to discuss - they are still very opposed to it
<jdstrand> right, so lets not discuss that here
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<jdstrand> we can take it to #ubuntu-hardened after the meeting
 * tyhicks nods
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> so I'm working on apparmor this week, I've got another round of test kernels building atm, and if it passes basic testing I will shove it up to the ppa
<jjohansen> I've got revising to do around namespaces, especially a bug that breaks non-ns x transitions
<jjohansen> and a couple of other bugs and testing to work out. We have a new method for detecting which kernel userspace combination we are in, so that we can drop the config patch for backports. Which was breaking containers, ...
<jjohansen> there is some coordination around apparmor 2.9 that will happen today in the upstream meeting
<jjohansen> I think thats it sarnold your u
<jjohansen> s/u/up
<sarnold> I'm on community this week
<sarnold> I have some new apparmor packages for trusty that use a trunk snapshot that we're calling 2.8.95, since it's not quite ready to be called a 2.9, and as a result of the snapshot and testing I've got a teeny patch for apparmor to update the libapparmor1 version number to libapparmor2 in an auto*something file
<sarnold> the new trusty packages are a mixed bag; on the one hand, the large accumulated patch set is now significantly smaller and we've dropped the old perl tools which none of us felt capable of supporting for five years
<sarnold> on the other hand, the new python tools are still a bit thin and need more testing.
<sarnold> i don't know how much we want to improve the python tools before proposing the new apparmor for landing
<sarnold> but it feels like we need at least aa-disable to work correctly before asking for a landing
<sbeattie> sarnold: I have a couple of small patches that make aa-disable work without aborting because of not understanding dbus rules
<jdstrand> we should have aa-enforce too then
<jdstrand> I assume
<sarnold> I've also got a large stack of MIRs, some fairly important pacakges that many people are waiting on (nginx, juju, etc.) -- that alone could fill the week.. so here's hoping the release team won't mind me blocking progress too much..
<jdstrand> do I understand correctly that we are only blocked on the python tools?
<sarnold> sbeattie: Yay! :D thanks!
<sarnold> jdstrand: moment, let me go re-find that email..
<sarnold> jdstrand: there's a handful of other qrt test failures not relaated to the python tools that also need investigation
<sarnold> jdstrand: it could be that some (most?) are due to a kernel that hasn't yet picked up all the apparmor patches, I think I heard jjohansen mention that lsat week
<jdstrand> ok, we need to get all that sorted so we can get this uploaded
 * jdstrand stating the obvious
<sbeattie> sarnold, jdstrand: I'll take a look at the QRT failures.
<sarnold> yeah, I'm looking forward to retrying with sbeattie's latest fixes, that'll hopefully be half of QRT.. :)
<jdstrand> thanks-- I'd help there, but have a lot of updates I need to get to
<sarnold> heh, yeah, I recall triage last week...
<sarnold> what a week
<jjohansen> sarnold: ? the kernel shouldn't really have anything to do with the userspace failures. It needs to support old and new kernels
<sarnold> I think that's me done, chrisccoulson if you're around you're up :)
<jdstrand> if it was only the new stuff from last week...
<sarnold> jjohansen: ah, ok. darn.
<jdstrand> ok, I think chrisccoulson is away (which is fine)
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/turba2.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/proftpd-dfsg.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/sleuthkit.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/ganglia-web.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/dhcpcd.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, tyhicks, jjohansen, sarnold, ChrisCoulson: thanks!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
<jjohansen> thanks jdstrand
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
<sarnold> thanks jdstrand :)
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks!
<jdstrand> np
<micahg> !dmb
<ubottu> The Developer Membership Board handles applications for new developer privileges. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/ApplicationProcess for more details. For DMB attention, try !dmb-ping.
<micahg> !dmb-ping
<ubottu> bdrung, ScottK, Laney, micahg, barry, tumbleweed, stgraber: DMB ping
<tumbleweed> o/
<ScottK> \o
<stgraber> o/
<ScottK> Seems like we have a quorum.
<ScottK> I'll chair I guess (penance for past sins).
<ScottK> #startmeeting
<ScottK> #startmeeting DMB
<ScottK> OK, I guess no bot today.
<ScottK> Review of previous action items
<ScottK> Add Daniel Pocock's upload rights (stgraber).
<ScottK>  
<ScottK> stgraber: ^^^?
<ScottK> We'll come back to that.
<ScottK> Noskcaj: Are you around?
<Noskcaj> yep
<stgraber> ScottK: not done yet as I still don't have a list of packages to add to his PPU
<stgraber> ScottK: I e-mailed him a few days ago to try and figure this out though
<ScottK> I've been a bit MIA, but I understand you applied for MOTU and it was supposed to be voted on by mail.
<ScottK> Then you're also applying for Xubuntu package set today.
<ScottK> Noskcaj: Is that right?
<Noskcaj> yeah, or january's 19UTC meeting
<Noskcaj> yep
<micahg> I've been a bit MIA as well, which has compounded the issue
<ScottK> So let's discuss both as needed and see if we can get the voting done now.
<micahg> we do have 2 other candidates today as well
<ScottK> Tell us about yourself and why you're applying for Xubuntu.
<micahg> can we get to them all?
<ScottK> Depends on how long this takes.
<ScottK> He was first on the agenda for Xubuntu.
<Noskcaj> I've been an ubuntu member for about a year now, and have done most of the packaging work for xubuntu these last two cycles. I am part of a number of packaging teams as well
 * ogra pulls out the pompoms 
<ScottK> Who's been your primary sponsor for the Xubuntu work?
<Noskcaj> Logan and dholbach
<Noskcaj> http://ubuntu-dev.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu-sponsorships.cgi?render=html&sponsor=&sponsor_search=name&sponsoree=Jackson+Doak&sponsoree_search=name
<ScottK> I recall reading something about problems with a xchat-gnome upload.  What happened with that and what did you learn from it.
<Noskcaj> If a package hasn't been gered for a long time, and has many changes, test it a lot beforehand
<Noskcaj> *merged
<ScottK> OK.  I'll also add that if you're doing a merge, you really need to understand the difference from Debian and why it's there.
<Noskcaj> yep
<ScottK> Who in the Xubuntu team do you coordinate your work with (I know they are short of developers)?
<ScottK> Noskcaj: ^^^
<Noskcaj> micahg, when he's around, as well as the people that make xfce and shimmer
<ScottK> "... people that make ..." you mean upstream developers?
<micahg> Noskcaj: what about the fact that one of the specific issues that was mentioned in the bug was previous mentioned to you by an Ubuntu dev and you said it was fine (when in reality it wasn't for everyone)?
<micahg> xchat-gnome issue: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xchat-gnome/+bug/1272455
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1272455 in xchat-gnome (Ubuntu) "multiple issues with git20131003" [High,Confirmed]
<Noskcaj> ScottK, yep, although some of the stuff is tailored for xubuntu
<Noskcaj> micahg, I installed it locally and couldn't see the problem, i'd have used a VM, but i cannot run one. I should have asked someone else to test it
<ScottK> Noskcaj: Anything else you'd like to say before we vote?
<Noskcaj> please vote yes?
<ScottK> Any more questions?
<ScottK> First vote is Noskcaj for MOTU.
<ScottK> Laney voted +1 via email.
<ScottK> micahg, tumbleweed , stgraber ^^^
<ScottK> barry is also +1 via email.
<micahg> -1, I think that you're doing good work, but I'm a little weary as there have been issues in the past with breaking various things
<Noskcaj> :(
<micahg> FTR, I can see that vote changing over time
<stgraber> -1, same as micahg, I'd prefer to have you work for a few more months through sponsors
<micahg> that's just how I feel now
<ScottK> I vote +0.  I can see the improvement, but I don't think you're ready for broad, unsupervised access to that much of the archive.  I'm also concerned with the number of people who have sponsored you multiple times that didn't endorse your application.
<tumbleweed> sorry, I'm not 100% here
<tumbleweed> but I can vote
<tumbleweed> +0
<ScottK> Thanks.
<tumbleweed> for much the same reasons as above
<ScottK> That's it.
<Noskcaj> ScottK, That last bit is because i had had a number of sync bugs that i could not test build
<ScottK> Noskcaj: Unfortunately, that's not enough +1 to succeed.  Please keep on working on improving and get more broadly endorsed.
<Noskcaj> I now use a ppa to build them, and i forgot to get logan to leave a testimonial
<ScottK> Please keep working through sponsors and come back in a few months.
<ScottK> Now Xubuntu Dev.
<ScottK> Everyone please vote.
<ScottK> barry was +1 in email
<ScottK> Laney was +1 in email
<ScottK> micahg, tumbleweed , stgraber ^^^
<micahg> -1 same reason (this does not preclude bzr commit access to xubuntu repos, which we'll deal with separately)
<stgraber> +0 [same concerns as MOTU but since the scope is more limited, I won't -1 that one, besides, the Xubuntu team appears to really be short of uploaders]
<micahg> sorry, which will be dealt with separately (by xubuntu dev team)
<tumbleweed> +0 I'm leaning a little more to +1 than MOTU, but not quite enough
<ScottK> I'm also +0.  I was leaning more towards +1 since it's more narrow and Xubuntu needs the help, but particularly since micahg is a Xubuntu Dev, I'm not comfortable saying +1 when he's still at -1.
<ScottK> End voting.
<Noskcaj> well that was a waste of two months
<ScottK> Noskcaj: So I think you'll need to come back again on this too.
<ScottK> Noskcaj: At least you have an answer now.  Please work with micahg and xubuntu-dev on bzr repo access and then come back.
<Noskcaj> ok
<micahg> I would like to publicly say that Jackson is being a great help to the Xubuntu dev team in trying to help prepare new releases, my vote was only with regard to unsponsored upload rights to the archive and should not be taken as a statement on the level of contribution
<ScottK> Is Gunnar here?
<GunnarHj> Yes.
<ScottK> GunnarHj: You're up.  Tell us a bit about yourself and why you want upload rights for ubuntu-doc
<GunnarHj> I've been contributing mostly with i18n related stuff for a while now. Already upload rights for language-selector and accountsservice. More involved with docs lately, and we miss someone in the team with upload rights.
<ScottK> Any questions anyone?
<GunnarHj> Uploads of ubuntu-docs are typically time critical.
<tumbleweed> just the basic stuff
<stgraber> are you subscribed to ubuntu-devel-announce?
<GunnarHj> stgraber: Yes.
<GunnarHj> tumbleweed: "basic stuff"?
<tumbleweed> what stgraber asked :)
<tumbleweed> but he got there first
<GunnarHj> ok
<ScottK> Let's vote then.
<stgraber> the other usual questions are related to the release cycle and freezes, but given the package we're talking about, I don't think this is particularly relevant
<stgraber> so ready to vote
<ScottK> barry +1 vial email.
<ScottK> Laney +1 via email.
<stgraber> +1
<micahg> +1
<ScottK> +1
<tumbleweed> +1
<ScottK> Done.  Congratulations.
<GunnarHj> Thanks guys!
<ScottK> Sergio, are you here?
<ogra> *\o/*
<sergiusens> ScottK, yes
 * ogra swings his pompoms
<ScottK> sergiusens: Please tell us a bit about yourself, what you're applying for, and why.
<rsalveti> o/
<sergiusens> first sorry for crowding the agenda, wasn't sure the e-mail tag was saving a slot
<sergiusens> I'm applying to upload a specific set of packages
<stgraber> GunnarHj: Archive Upload Rights for gunnarhj: archive 'primary', source package 'ubuntu-doc'
<sergiusens> for most of them we are upstream (with my team)
<sergiusens> I work mostly on ubuntu touch (almost only except for the packages that affect desktop)
<sergiusens> worked on the initial android enablement
<sergiusens> and now doing go packaging as well
<sergiusens> all my work is always reviewed
<sergiusens> and in general we have additional layers of qa control with the landing asks prior to the ci train showing up
<stgraber> so I'm personally fine with the list of PPU for one exception, livecd-rootfs
<ScottK> sergiusens: I see qtmultimedia-opensource-src-touch is on your list.  That's a code copy of qtmultimedia-opensource-src, right?
<ScottK> stgraber: That one concerns me too.
<sergiusens> ScottK, it is something useful only for ubuntu touch
<ogra> stgraber, why is that ?
<ogra> stgraber, i sponsored plenty of sergios things into it in the past
<sergiusens> ScottK, it's a mess of diverts
<rsalveti> qtmultimedia-opensource-src-touch is a copy of qtmultimedia-opensource-src but with support to gstreamer 1.0 instead
<ogra> never had any issue
<ogra> (usually sergios code is good to go on the first shot)
<ScottK> sergiusens: I know, I was in the discussion that resulted in it being created.  My concern is that the two ought to be generally in sync, but that if you can only upload one and not the other it could be problematic.
<sergiusens> ScottK, I see
<sergiusens> ScottK, in general the plan is to kill it soon
<ScottK> ogra: livecd-rootfs can affect a lot more than just touch though.
<stgraber> ogra: I'm not saying I have any particular problem with the changes he did so far, they may be fine, but this is a senstive package and I'd much rather keep it uploaded by people who have a much better understanding of the cdimage infrastructure.
<sergiusens> ScottK, just wanted it in case any urgent packaging specific bug showed up
<ScottK> sergiusens: How soon?
<ogra> ScottK, i know :)
<sergiusens> ScottK, as soon as the media-hub and mediascanner make their way in
<ogra> ScottK, but i trust sergiusens to be careful enough with it and to have to skills to not break it
<sergiusens> I'm working on the packaging for media-hub today fwiw
<ogra> (not more than stgraber or me broke it during our uploads at least)
<sergiusens> if it is too much issues; can I just remove livecd-rootfs?
<stgraber> sergiusens: yes you can
<sergiusens> I can work that one out through sponsors
<sergiusens> stgraber, changed
 * ogra would really appreciate to have one more upload capable person for livecd-rootfs in the hone world ... and i really think sergio is qualified ... but up to you 
<stgraber> sergiusens: thanks
<ScottK> sergiusens: I'd prefer to leave out qtmultimedia-opensource-src-touch  too.
<sergiusens> ScottK, ack
<sergiusens> ScottK, done
<ScottK> sergiusens: Thanks.
<stgraber> sergiusens: are you subscribed to ubuntu-devel-announce?
<sergiusens> stgraber, I am now
<stgraber> sergiusens: good
<stgraber> sergiusens: what tool would you use before uploading to confirm your package won't impact flavours that may be in the middle of a milestone?
<ScottK> sergiusens: Based on where we are in the development cycle, what type of package upload needs additional permission and which would you be able to upload without review?
<sergiusens> stgraber, I'm really bad with tool names; but I'd got to the devscripts and find the one that has 'seeded in'
<stgraber> sergiusens: seeded-in-ubuntu, right ;)
<sergiusens> ScottK, packages without a feature freeze exception
<ScottK> sergiusens: How do you tell if it needs one?
<sergiusens> ScottK, given our nature though, I haven't had to deal with that often as someone creates a blanket one for us
<ScottK> sergiusens: Sure, but that won't last forever.
<sergiusens> ScottK, to tell to be honest; I'd refer to the wiki
<tumbleweed> to me, blanket FFes are a sign of broken process
<ScottK> sergiusens: OK.  The answer is that if it's only bug fixes and no new features, it doesn't need an FFe.
<ogra> tumbleweed, well, touch is a rolling distro ... with a different process
<sergiusens> ScottK, right; and I read it this morning again (since I need to file one actually)
<ScottK> Same process that, I gather, apparently makes updating Qt5 for half a cycle impossible.
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> Any more questions.
<micahg> sergiusens: just quickly, have you had any issues working through Debian for the 4 packages you maintain there?
<sergiusens> micahg, not really; michael was kind enough and happy enough that I was packaging golang stuff
<ogra> and thats after all for the benefit of the whole distro :)
<sergiusens> micahg, he just insisted I used git and not bzr for packaging branches to be aligned with the team
<sergiusens> which I did
<ScottK> OK, I think CFV time then.
<ScottK> Vote for PPU for sergiusens for lxc-android-config, android, goget-ubuntu-touch, phablet-tools, autopilot, golang-gocheck, golang-pb, golang-go-flags, session-manager-touch, platform-api, android-tools, ofono, maliit-framework, ubuntu-keyboard
<micahg> sergiusens: ok, I'm always glad to see people working in Debian and trying to push through packages that way
<stgraber> +1
<micahg> +1
<ScottK> barry is +1 in email
<ScottK> Laney is +1 in email
<ScottK> tumbleweed: ^^^
<ScottK> +1 from me.
<tumbleweed> +1
<ScottK> OK, done.
<ogra> yay
<ScottK> congratulations sergiusens
<rsalveti> \o/
<sergiusens> yay
 * ogra dances
<ScottK> endmeeting
<micahg> congratulations sergiusens
<ChickenCutlass> excellent
<rsalveti> sergiusens: congrats!
<stokachu> you got 5 minutes for me today?
<sergiusens> if there were still live UDS I'd get beers for everyone :-)
<ogra> well deserved !
<sergiusens> thanks
<ScottK> (we're at the time limit, so no further discussion)
<stokachu> please?
<rsalveti> sergiusens: keep it up :-)
<stokachu> im on a plane next dmb meeting so i cant make that one, was hoping to get this wrapped up since ive been through the process before
<ScottK> stokachu: We're out of time, please send email and we'll see if we can do it that way.
<stokachu> fine
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-02-25
<jamespage> o/
<jamespage>  bug 1273877
<ubottu> bug 1273877 in neutron (Ubuntu Trusty) "neutron-plugin-nicira should be renamed to neutron-plugin-vmware" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1273877
<beisner> o/  hi.
<coreycb> o/
<coreycb> jamespage, zul just merged the code for that
<coreycb> jamespage, not sure if charm updates are required.  I was going to grep the charm branch.
<jamespage> coreycb, most likely - we can work those into the icehouse branches once this lands in distro
<arosales> o/
<jamespage> anyway lets get started
<jamespage> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
 * jamespage tap tap
<jamespage> great no mootbot
<rharper> \o
<lutostag> o/
<arosales> :-/
<caribou> o/
<matsubara> o/
<jamespage> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<jamespage> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<jamespage> ph joy - nevermind
<jamespage> lets do it without the bot today
<arosales> #chair jamespage
<jamespage> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<arosales> hmm nothing
<jamespage> arosales, and I have no idea who to ping!
 * arosales didn't find any info @ https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<jamespage> nope
<jamespage> anyway
<jamespage> I'll do it the hard way
<arosales> have to go old school
<jamespage> gaughen: ensure BP's are updated
<gaughen> o/
<jamespage> and coreyb: follow up on bug 1273877
<ubottu> bug 1273877 in neutron (Ubuntu Trusty) "neutron-plugin-nicira should be renamed to neutron-plugin-vmware" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1273877
<gaughen> jamespage, I have bugged everyone.
<jamespage> cool - thanks
<coreycb> jamespage, the neutron fix is merged
<jamespage> everyone feeling bugged enought?
<gaughen> coreycb, sweet!
<jamespage> coreycb, excellent!
<jamespage> moving on...
<coreycb> :D I did something
<jamespage> #topic Trusty Development
<jamespage> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseSchedule
<jamespage> so we just past feature freeze
<jamespage> which means focus should switch to bug fixing rather than introducing new features
<jamespage> however I know we have FFe's for maas, juju and misc other things as well
<jamespage> so expect some changes still
<jamespage> beta-1 is due this week
<jamespage> (27th)
<jamespage> which is the first milestone that the server team will be participating in
<gaughen> is there another openstack milestone landing this week too?
<jamespage> so keep an eye out for any bugs being raised from ISO testing.
<jamespage> zul, ^^ ?
<jamespage> I can't remember off the top of my head
<zul> gaughen:  working on the 2013.2.2 milestone right now
<zul> icehouse-3 is march 6th
<jamespage> icehouse-3 is on the 6th march
<jamespage> snap!
<gaughen> yup, I just went and looked at the website
<gaughen> cool
<jamespage> lol
<jamespage> https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Icehouse_Release_Schedule
<gaughen> that's where I am
<jamespage> anyone have any questions about where we are in cycle that need answering right now?
<jamespage> ...
<jamespage> ..
<jamespage> .
<jamespage> .
<jamespage> ok
<jamespage> #subtopic Release Bugs
<jamespage> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-t-tracking-bug-tasks.html#server
<jamespage> lets review the highs
<jamespage> bug 1252627
<ubottu> bug 1252627 in python-django-compressor (Ubuntu Trusty) "[MIR] build dependencies for python-django-compressor" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1252627
<jamespage> I think bs4 is still holding that up  - and its assigned to me - yikes!
<jamespage> I'll look soonish
<jamespage> bug 1283750
<ubottu> bug 1283750 in python-repoze.lru (Ubuntu Trusty) "test failures with python3.4" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1283750
<jamespage> can someone take a look at that and confirm there is actually a bug - the debian bug report is odd
<jamespage> bug 1248283
<ubottu> bug 1248283 in juju-core (Ubuntu Trusty) "juju userdata should not restart networking" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1248283
<jamespage> pending fix from upstream
<jamespage> targetted to 1.18.0 - which is soon I think
<jamespage> bug 1259166
<ubottu> bug 1259166 in horizon (Ubuntu Trusty) "Fix lintian error" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1259166
<jamespage> I think we can close that out now
<jamespage> I did not see that today when I was fixing up horizon
<jamespage> zul: pls can you check/update
<jamespage> bug 1278897 need to be done
<ubottu> bug 1278897 in dovecot (Ubuntu Trusty) "dovecot warns about moved ssl certs on upgrade" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1278897
<jamespage> bug 1250171
<ubottu> bug 1250171 in swift (Ubuntu Trusty) "The swift packages are missing an upstart config file swift-container-sync" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1250171
<jamespage> merge proposed - just pending landing
<jamespage> good good
<jamespage> and all of the others are medium/low/wishlist
<jamespage> #subtopic Blueprints
<jamespage> #link http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-t/group/topic-t-servercloud-overview.html
<jamespage> smoser, curtin is looking worrying - all OK or do you need extra hands?
<jamespage> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-1311-curtin
<jamespage> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-1311-openstack-charms
<jamespage> flagging a bit, should catchup towards the end of cycle
<zul> james_w:  ack
<zul> jamespage: ack
<jamespage> if people want to get into the charm's several need unit tests which is a good way to learn
<jamespage> feel free to steal those WI's from the BP
<jamespage> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-1311-ceph
<jamespage> that's OK
<jamespage> firefly is delayed but still coming +1 week
<jamespage> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-1311-mysql-alternatives
<jamespage> looking OK - PXC still inthe new queue - will find an aa to review
<jamespage> ps-5.6 not uploaded - might not make the release now - but we'll see
<jamespage> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-1311-openstack
<jamespage> zul, anything you want to raise/call-out from that BP?
<jamespage> and https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-1311-juju
<jamespage> OK - MIR is raised and in-flight
<zul> jamespage: the upstream stuff is interesting for me this month
<jamespage> security team assigned so hopefully will move forward in march
<jamespage> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<jamespage> caribou, anything this week?
<caribou> jamespage: nothing on my end
<caribou> jamespage: aside for some charm questions that I'll bring in #ubuntu-server
<jamespage> ack
<jamespage> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa)
<psivaa> hello nothing from me except thanks to rbasak and jamespage for the smoke test merges
<jamespage> psivaa, any QA team updates?
<jamespage> psivaa, ok
<jamespage> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<jamespage> smb ?
<smb> Not much from my side. Currently bisecting kvm for some regression
<jamespage> ok
<jamespage> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
<jamespage> rbasak is not here.. moving on
<jamespage> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
<jamespage> I'm sure there is other stuff but
<jamespage> gaughen, UDS is coming up next month - we should have sessions proposed - do we need to run through that still?
<gaughen> jamespage, it's next month?
<gaughen> I have not proposed them yet, I'll get on it.
<jamespage> gaughen, yes
<jamespage> gaughen, cool - one upstream has asked when the ceph session is going to be
<jamespage> thought we better actually do one :-)
<jamespage> any other events?
<zul> when is uds again?
<gaughen> zul March 11-13!!!!
<jamespage> http://uds.ubuntu.com/
<gaughen> I had *ass*umed it was in April
<arosales> wow its coming up
<gaughen> it snuck up on me.
<jamespage> sounds like an action for gaughen
<gaughen> yeah, yeah.
<jamespage> #action gaughen to chase up on uds sessions
<jamespage> #topic Open Discussion
<jamespage> anything anyone wants to raise?
<jamespage> nope ok
<jamespage> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
<jamespage> +7 days
<jamespage> 4th March, 1600 UTC
<jamespage> #endmeeting
<jamespage> gaughen, you're chair next week
<gaughen> sigh, I know, james_w
<gaughen> jamespage,
<jamespage> coreybc beisner ludostag rharper
<jamespage> You appear to have been missed from the chair rota - so I added your guys :-)
<gaughen> oooh we need to add them
<rharper> jamespage:  =)
<beisner> doh!
<beisner> as long as we find the bot  ;)
<matsubara> jamespage, feel free to add me too
<jamespage> oh - of course
<coreycb> jamespage, yes please add coreybc ;)
<beisner> yah, that other guy
<coreycb> beisner, :)
<jamespage> coreycb, ok
<smoser> jamespage, sorry. just back. curtin state is currect, and yes. worrying. it is accomplishable. but behind by a lot.
<ppisati> \o/
<smb> ppisati, To early
<smb> too
<ppisati> Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯
<smb> heh
<ppisati> Â¸.Â·Â´Â¯`Â·.Â´Â¯`Â·.Â¸Â¸.Â·Â´Â¯`Â·.Â¸><(((Âº>
<ppisati> ok, last one :)
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Trusty
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<cking> \o
<ppisati> o/
<smb> \o
<kamal> o/
<chiluk> \o/     /o\     o=    (o)        YMCA....'
<sconklin> o/
<henrix> o/
<sforshee> o/
<ogasawara> o/
<kamal> chiluk++
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> T/master: support for the Beaglebone/Beaglebone black boards was added to the
<ppisati> armhf generic multiplatform kernel
<ppisati> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/~canonical-kernel-distro-team/+upcomingwork
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-t/canonical-kernel-distro-team.html
<ogasawara> || apw       || core-1311-kernel                || 4 work items ||
<ogasawara> ||           || core-1311-cross-compilation     || 2 work items ||
<ogasawara> ||           || core-1311-hwe-plans             || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> || ogasawara || core-1311-kernel                || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> || smb       || servercloud-1311-openstack-virt || 4 work items ||
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Trusty Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> The 3.13.0-12.32 Trusty kernel is available in the archive.  It's pulled
<ogasawara> the v3.13.4 upstream stable updates.  We have also queued the next
<ogasawara> v3.13.5 upstream stable patches and anticipate this to be uploaded
<ogasawara> shortly.  Our unstable branch has also been rebased to track the latest
<ogasawara> v3.14-rc4 release.
<ogasawara> -----
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseSchedule
<ogasawara> Thurs Feb 27 - Beta 1 (~2 days away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Mar 27 - Final Beta (~4 weeks away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Apr 03 - Kernel Freeze (~5 weeks away)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's
<jsalisbury> The current CVE status can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Saucy/Raring/Quantal/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/sconklin)
<bjf> o/
<bjf> Status for the main kernels, until today (Nov. 26):
<bjf>   *   Lucid - Verification and Testing
<bjf>   * Precise - Verification and Testing
<bjf>   * Quantal - Verification and Testing
<bjf>   *   Saucy - Verification and Testing
<bjf>  
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<bjf>  
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
<kamal> thanks jsalisbury
<apw> ta
<sconklin> thanks
<protonuser_1> am i in the right place for jono chat
<jono> protonuser_1, #ubuntu-on-air
<protonuser_1> thanks m8
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-02-26
<phunyguy> ^ wb
<AlanBell> phunyguy: yay
<phunyguy> \o/
<AlanBell> connection details for freenode changed and I didn't realise
<Pici> perfect timing
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-02-27
 * slangasek waves
<jodh> o/
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Feb 27 16:01:21 2014 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh bdmurray slangasek cjwatson xnox caribou infinity)
<slangasek> slangasek barry stgraber infinity doko cjwatson caribou bdmurray jodh xnox
<doko_> can I go first?
<slangasek> doko_: go ahead
<doko_> have to leave early ...
<doko_> - aarch64 compiler discussions
<doko_> - updated various cross compiler packages, and fixed the powerpc cross
<doko_> - transitions: octave, qhull, spatialite, ...
<doko_> - rest of the time spent on +1 maintenance work
<doko_> (done)
<slangasek> * fixes for nfs-utils getting ready for an LTS (bug #1284210)
<ubottu> bug 1284210 in nfs-utils (Ubuntu) "nfs-kernel-server mountd check only checks for nfsv3 via UDP, not TCP" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1284210
<slangasek> * slowed down this week by a sprained finger and a head cold
<slangasek> * otherwise, head down in customer-facing work, so nothing to report
<slangasek> (done)
<barry> system-image: 2.1-0ubuntu4 loaded on the train (landing 10) which fixes LP: #1279056, LP: #1277589, LP: #1260768, LP: #1284217 (backported).  Also, reviewed and merged our first external contribution LP: #1278589.  New image update stack (s-i, u-d-m, and s-s) in landing 10 tested and verified ready to go.  also tested s-i against new server layout.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1279056 in Ubuntu system image "All SignatureErrors should include the checksums and file paths of the offending files" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1279056
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1277589 in ubuntu-download-manager "Better protection against concurrent access" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1277589
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1260768 in system-image (Ubuntu) "Fix the ApplyUpdate() D-Bus API" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1260768
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1284217 in system-image (Ubuntu) "[updates] Displays a spinner indefinitely when an update download was started externally" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1284217
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1278589 in Ubuntu system image "Support turning off https from channel.ini" [Wishlist,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1278589
<barry> autopilot: more py3 discussions, we have a plan, once the ci train gets back on track.  worked on gallery-app but again, waiting on the train.  review https://github.com/rilmodem/ofono/pull/56
<barry> ubu/deb: python-virutalenv 1.11.4-1 (fixes pip installation problem). LP: #1283742; investigating LP: #1272359; investigating LP: #1284469
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1283742 in python-mock (Debian) "python-mock tests fail with python3.4" [Unknown,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1283742
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1272359 in aptdaemon (Ubuntu) "needs porting to Python 3.4" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1272359
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1284469 in python3.4 (Ubuntu) "Exception on installing/reconfiguring python3" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1284469
<barry> other: ubuntu-on-air presentation on python 3 porting
<barry> done
<stgraber> LXC:
<stgraber>  - Released LXC 1.0 and dealt with the following flood of e-mails, comments, ...
<stgraber>  - Tracked down apparmor bug when switching profile on-eec on an overlayfs root (never happens...), workaround pushed to LXC upstream by Serge.
<stgraber>  - Fixed a couple more important but trivial bugs.
<stgraber>  - Sent patch to fix unprivileged containers started by root.
<stgraber>  - Reviewed patches to fix some of the main issues for distros shipping with an rshared / (systemd based distros mostly).
<stgraber>  - Planning to release 1.0.1 at some point next week.
<stgraber> CGManager support for logind:
<stgraber>  - Got basic create/remove/chown/chmod working at the moment.
<stgraber>  - Current goal is to have the patch support all the basic cases we care about to create/destroy/list sessions, the rest will fallback to the fs interface if available.
<stgraber>  - That ought to be enough to get it working with cgmanager for unprivileged containers and for us to stop shipping cgroup-lite while not risking regressions for the main non-container case.
<stgraber> System-image:
<slangasek> barry: so does "loaded on the train" mean it's landed, or just that it's in a silo?
<stgraber>  - Applied a few changes for ports.
<stgraber>  - Discussed the required changes to allow http-only and https-only servers.
<stgraber>  - Helped a community member setup his server, quite a few more patches to review as a result.
<stgraber>  - Started planning the mass channel rename (/* => /ubuntu-touch/*), looks like all the tools will cope with this fine, just need some more tests and an announcement.
<stgraber> Other:
<stgraber>  - Driving Beta 1 this week
<barry> slangasek: only the silo :/
<stgraber> (DONE)
<slangasek> barry: ack
<barry> stgraber: client trunk has support for turning off http or https
<stgraber> barry: cool! the server branch support it too, so we just need to wait till the next client release and I'll be able to update the instructions.
<barry> stgraber: i wonder if it's worth pushing out an s-i 2.2 for 14.04?  i guess that is dependent on getting 2.1 actually landed first.
<slangasek> infinity: oh, your turn :)
<stgraber> barry: 2.2 sounds good to me. I guess you're covered by the touch-packages FFe anyway, right?
<barry> stgraber: i believe so, yes
<infinity> slangasek: Lies.
<infinity> slangasek: I'm just a tourist.
<slangasek> infinity: you didn't end your statement with a (done)
<infinity> I'M JUST A TOURIST (DONE)
<cjwatson> welcome back to foundations, not that you really left :)
<cjwatson> (modulo a day or three either way)
<xnox> infinity says... whilst unlocking the safe full of golden bricks.
 * xnox loved that movie.
 * slangasek scratches his head
<slangasek> cjwatson:
<cjwatson> Oh yeah, confused by doko's reordering
<cjwatson> Continuing work on libclick:
<cjwatson>  - Finished initial draft of C implementation.
<cjwatson>  - Decided that the amount of manual exception handling I was doing was ridiculous; rewrote in Vala.
<cjwatson>  - Got some simpler bits of the test suite working against the new library.
<cjwatson>  - Fighting with getting the rest of the test suite to work.  I want to be able to use mostly the same Python test code, which is reasonably feasible with GI, but also to be able to install mock functions that affect native code.  I think I have a nearly-functional if alarming answer ...
<cjwatson> Cleaned up loose end of d-i/HTTPS support (enabled Acquire::https::Verify-Host in unauthenticated-SSL mode).
<cjwatson> ..
 * xnox slangasek: The Tourist, Angelina Jolie, Johnny Depp...
<slangasek> caribou: hi, anything you want to share this week?
<caribou> * Continued work on kdump problem
<caribou> * some language training & tests
<caribou> (done)
<bdmurray> research into failed to retrace crashes on the error tracker
<bdmurray> updated ubuntu-assets errors with javascript changes from mpt after merging his branches
<bdmurray> updated ErrorTracker/Deployment wiki page with more info about assets
<bdmurray> fixed an issue in errors with Launchpad bugs for kerneloops not being displayed (r454)
<bdmurray> fixed an issue with the error tracking not returning all the linux binary packages
<bdmurray> modifications to rate of crashes calculation for the phased updater
<bdmurray> pushed change to errors to use new rls:srcpkg:pgk_version counters for rate of crashes calculation
<bdmurray> bug triage of foundations bugs, ubuntu-release-upgrader bugs
<bdmurray> helped kiko debug an upgrade failure
<bdmurray> merged fix for update-notifier bug 1282760
<ubottu> bug 1282760 in update-notifier (Ubuntu) "update-motd-fsck-at-reboot claims that partitions will be checked even if check is disabled in fstab" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1282760
<bdmurray> investigation into apt-clone failure on !amd64 !i386
<bdmurray> +1 maintenance
<bdmurray> investigation into and fix of ubuntu-release-upgrader test failures with python3.4
<bdmurray> pushed ubuntu-release-upgrader fix for bug 1272387
<ubottu> bug 1272387 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "needs porting to Python 3.4" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1272387
<bdmurray> SRU team work and mentoring
<bdmurray> dealing with a kerneloops on my desktop
<bdmurray> â done â
<slangasek> caribou: "language training"?
<barry> bdmurray: you are the new ev
<infinity> slangasek: English is hard.
<jodh> * foundations-1305-upstart-work-items:
<jodh>   - core-1311-upstart-roadmap: cgroup support:
<jodh>     - After discussions with hallyn+stgraber on leveraging the cgmanager
<jodh>       code by reworking it into libcgmanager-core, transpires that this
<jodh>       strategy is not realistic. Hence, continuing to work on the fix
<jodh>       for the state machine issue (along with all the tests).
<jodh> * ppc64el:
<jodh>   - Investigated dep8 test failures for nih+upstart. Currently looking
<jodh>       at sbuild and pbuilder failures.
<jodh> â¨
<caribou> slangasek: after years of playing around with C, I thought it would be useful to learn pythone
<slangasek> infinity: I thought he meant that English was misbehaving and he was taking it to obedience school
<caribou> pythone = python with ze french accent
<slangasek> caribou: ah :)
<jodh> darn - my chosen utf-8 char doesn't appear to render in weechat.
<jodh> â done â
<jodh> bdmurray: immitation and flattery... :)
<xnox> jodh: looks fine here... whatever it is.. twinkle stars?
<jodh> yeah - "twinkles"
<xnox> * python3 migration:
<xnox>   - the big blockers: phablet-tools (phablet-test-run), unity8,
<xnox>     ubuntu-ui-toolkit, ofono-scripts (thanks to pitti) are all ported
<xnox>     to python3 and awaiting landing, when landings resume again.
<xnox>   - most of other apps/clicks, are also ported, and pending landings.
<xnox>   - along the way fixed packageit default backend to use python3 bug
<xnox>     #1283574
<xnox>   - made upstart-app-launch to not pull in gtk3/python2 via zeitgeist
<xnox>     meta-package dependency.
<xnox>   - porting gdebi to python3 or unseeding it from touch is remaining
<xnox>     bigish task
<xnox> * toolchains:
<xnox>   - provided gcc-4.8 androideabi cross-toolchain for rsalveti, to
<xnox>   hopefully build both android-system.img with 4.8 and
<xnox>   hybris/platform-api with 4.8 and thus get us off 4.7.
<xnox>   - refreshed arm cross-toolchains base packages to pick up eglibc
<xnox>     2.19.
<xnox>   - working on i686-android cross-toolchain to start building x86
<xnox>     emulator in the archive.
<xnox> * installer:
<xnox>   - working to land proper fixes for bug #1012629
<xnox>   - unbroke ubiquity for beta1 bug #1282640
<ubottu> bug 1012629 in grub-installer (Ubuntu Precise) "grub-installer ignores "bootdev" setting in preseed file" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1012629
<xnox> * random:
<ubottu> bug 1282640 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Trusty) "ubiquity crashed with AttributeError in item_str(): 'list' object has no attribute 'find'" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1282640
<xnox>   - removed vintage COF logo from all theme packages i could find
<xnox>   - my PC RAM has memtest errors, sent of for RMA thanks to lifetime
<xnox>     warranty. Recommendations on good 32GB (4x8GB) DDR3 RAM are
<xnox>     welcome. Should I go for ECC?
<xnox>   - working on my non-thinkpad, and not doing dm-raid work, will get
<xnox>     replacement ram asap.
<xnox> ..
<slangasek> xnox: is the move to gcc-4.8 for android looking promising?  or do we not know yet if it works?
<xnox> slangasek: i have gcc-4.8 toolchain in a PPA, and i know that android-4.4 does _not_ compile, as it has -Werror everywhere, and it's not 4.8-clean...
<slangasek> k
<doko_> doesn't google have its own 4.8 branch for android?
<xnox> slangasek: in theory it should all work, in practice i remember starting out with 4.8, and reverting back to 4.7. Cause at the time nobody was on 4.8 (even linaro)
 * slangasek nods
<xnox> doko_: there is a google branch of 4.8, for master, not used by default. (not enabled for 4.4 release, nor kitkat stable branches, so i take it's for 4.5 or later...)
<slangasek> any other questions about your teammates' status?
<infinity> jodh: Is my pet session bug still on your radar?
<jodh> infinity: I'm sure we can add that to the next release, assuming we get the MP backlog cleared (hint directed at other upstart devs ;)
<xnox> infinity: jodh: what's the pet bug?
<infinity> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/upstart/+bug/1277594
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1277594 in upstart (Ubuntu) "Please make --no-sessions the default, and add a cmdline option for the inverse" [Undecided,New]
<xnox> infinity: with or without my crazy backwards compatible name for the option?! =)
<infinity> ...
<infinity> No, please not --no-no-sessions :P
<slangasek> --bad-touch-sessions
<jodh> --jfdwiw
<infinity> If you implement that one successfully, we're all out of a job.
<jodh> infinity: ;D
 * jodh wonders if systemd has that one... ;)
<slangasek> infinity: pretty sure if somebody implements that, we have lucrative careers ahead of us extricating users from what they said they wanted
<infinity> No, systemd has --jfdwlw
<xnox> slangasek: i was thinking to change --no-sessions to take a bool, with "true" as default, thus --no-sessions[=true] is default, and --no-sessions=false to re-enable them.
<infinity> slangasek: Ahh, you're seeing it as an equivalent to --genie?
<xnox> slangasek: this saves introducing an option.
<slangasek> xnox: no opinion :)
<barry> jodh: you just need to link in libjfdwiwastfu
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
<xnox> barry: i thought it's ldpreload, no?!
<slangasek> bdmurray: so doko_ brought up a question about bug tracking
<jodh> barry: heehee
<barry> xnox: right! it allows you to call into python3-jfdi
<bdmurray> about milestones correct?
<slangasek> we haven't been systematically tracking bugs this cycle... I've been having a hard time even finding the page with the report :/
<slangasek> bdmurray: yes
<doko_> heh
<xnox> barry: yes, but only vi gobject-introspection =))))
<xnox> s/vi/via/
 * doko_ has to leave now ...
<barry> s/vi/emacs
<slangasek> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-t-tracking-bug-tasks.html ?
<slangasek> doko_: so the process hasn't changed, we've just been bad about following it :)
<bdmurray> yes, that has the ones with an Trusty task
<slangasek> can I ask that everyone take a look at the bugs on that report over the next week, and help make sure it's tracking the right issues for release?
<slangasek> (claiming bugs you'll work on, and adding any bugs to the list that you think should be there by setting the right bug target + rls-t-incoming tag)
<xnox> well bug #1246539 is fixed as part of driving python2 off touch images.
<ubottu> bug 1246539 in packagekit (Ubuntu Trusty) "get-distro-upgrade.py needs to be converted to python3" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1246539
<xnox> slangasek: right, ack.
<doko_> slangasek, ok, and does anybody move the milestones? and which ones to ise by default?
<xnox> ..
<xnox> doko_: just needs targetting to series trusty, no milestone needed.
<slangasek> doko_: we mostly haven't been using the milestones for bugs
<doko_> ok
<doko_> away now
<xnox> bug #1277865 - looks strange, we do resize& use_free installation, on a system that does _not_ have ESP, yet try to install grub-efi into one, and we didn't crate ESP as part of resize and install.
<ubottu> bug 1277865 in grub-installer (Ubuntu) "Cannot install Ubuntu 14.04 on EFI hardware" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1277865
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else?
<slangasek> fyi, if your blueprints aren't in already for vUDS, they're late :P
<barry> slangasek: i really have nothing new for vUDS.  i don't really see much of a point in fast forwarding the older blueprints and discussing them again.
<slangasek> barry: indeed
<slangasek> but anything you *do* want discussed should have been registered by now :)
<stgraber> same here, I didn't submit anything because we're past FeatureFreeze and the remaining work is pretty clear (bugs!).
<cjwatson> slangasek: so I *cough* haven't registered the Qt versions blueprint you asked me to do yet - is that still relevant in light of recent mail threads?  do you want it rephrased as how we're handling this on an ongoing basis?
<xnox> slangasek: unless there isn't one, pruning useless technologies off the touch images would be a good one. E.g. gtk2, gtk3, X11 libraries, etc.
<slangasek> cjwatson: my intent was to discuss early what the plan is for next cycle and going forward... definitely still relevant AFAICS
<cjwatson> k
<xnox> slangasek: and blacklisting them / establishing policy for touch-seed.
<slangasek> xnox: if you think it's useful to have a discussion about this (planning how to divide and conquer the work?), please register it :)
<xnox> slangasek: ack.
<xnox> (need to check how much of that work is left...)
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Feb 27 16:41:52 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-02-27-16.01.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks all
<jodh> thanks!
<barry> thanks!
<stgraber> thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-03-02
<ganime> Hello
<ganime> I hope this is the right place for a quick question?
<ganime> Where can I find an Ubuntu community in my area? Could someone possibly send me a link or something?
<ganime> Thank you
<howefield> hi ganime, probably not the right place but you could start here.. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeams
<elfy> they left ...
<howefield> ah well,
<howefield> switched off joins/parts ect ect
<elfy> :)
<caboose885> o/
<s-fox> o/
<howefield> hello caboose885
<elfy> o/
<howefield> and all :)
<coffeecat> o/
<s-fox> Who wants to chair the meeting? My job?
<cariboo907> o/
<elfy> your job
<s-fox> lol
<caboose885> its got your name on it s-fox :)
<s-fox> Alright...
<s-fox> #startmeeting Ubuntu Forums Council Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Sun Mar  2 20:03:47 2014 UTC.  The chair is s-fox. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Forums Council Meeting | Current topic:
<s-fox> #voters s-fox elfy cariboo907 coffeecat elfy howefield
<meetingology> Current voters: cariboo907 coffeecat elfy howefield s-fox
<Iowan> o/
<s-fox> #voters Iowan
<meetingology> Current voters: Iowan cariboo907 coffeecat elfy howefield s-fox
<s-fox> :D
<s-fox> sorry Iowan
<Iowan> That happens when I sit in the back...
<elfy> happens when I sit in the front ...
<s-fox> Right, we currently have an empty agenda so i guess just a bit of feedback really.  But before that i wanted to know if anyone here has anything they want to bring up
<elfy> agenda isn't empty
<elfy> it's got caboose885 on it ...
<howefield> hmm
<s-fox> That is old?
<Iowan> "last" meeting...
<caboose885> I missed the last one...so elfy told me to roll it over to this one
<s-fox> Ah, okay :)
<elfy> no that is left from the last meeting(s) when there won't enough of us here
<s-fox> caboose885,  go for it
<s-fox> #topic  	
<s-fox> Followup report to the UA team revision
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Forums Council Meeting | Current topic:
<caboose885> Well, I have been working on the UA team. Currently I have 9 active members. I actually have a few more people that are eager to join but they don't meet the requirements yet
<caboose885> Hopefully in the next couple months we can bring them on
<Iowan> What are membership requirements?
<caboose885> 6 months active on the forums
<s-fox> I was just wondering how you are going about getting in contact with people, or are they coming to you?
<caboose885> At first I was reaching out to people but lately I've had a couple come to me
<elfy> good
<caboose885> I'm not sure if its members spreading the word or how they are learning about the team
<caboose885> I never really asked them how they heard about the team
<elfy> it might be worth doing that
<caboose885> I will make sure to ask next time
<caboose885> So, the team is slowly getting started. Still need more members but at least we have a small team working on reducing unanswered posts left on the forums
<elfy> caboose885: nothing to stop you asking those you've got :)
<s-fox> That sounds great caboose885 ,  I know it can be hard getting movement :)
<caboose885> I think I estimated the team a bit too small. I think I will need more than 15 members but i will take what I can get
<s-fox> agreed elfy
<elfy> caboose885: yep - though I'd say it's best to start with a compact team
<caboose885> agreed, with growing pains and figuring a  good system out and all
<caboose885> that is all from me unless you guys have more to ask
<s-fox> Okay, anything else you want to add caboose885 , or can we move on? (not that i am trying to change topic)
<elfy> caboose885: thanks for the time you're putting in to it
<s-fox> Nothing more from me except i am glad it is slowly coming together and a big thank you
<s-fox> :)
<caboose885> you can move on s-fox. I am done :)
<caboose885> Thanks for everyones help and support
<howefield> thanks caboose885
<s-fox> Okay moving on...
<s-fox> #topic Moderator Nominations
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Forums Council Meeting | Current topic: Moderator Nominations
<s-fox> We have been trying quite hard to become more democratic with the way in which moderators (and admins) will be chosen on the forums
<s-fox> It has been difficult to find a way to implement, but we getting there.
<s-fox> We have recently come up with this outline: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncil/TeamNomination
<s-fox> It is still a work in progress that needs the Community Council to agree on (we have 3/7 officially at this time)
<s-fox> I guess we are looking for general feedback from an outsiders point of view, as well as just letting you know what is coming
<s-fox> I think that is about it, unless any of the other FC members have anything to add.
<elfy> not to that
<Iowan> nothing here
<s-fox> Also big thank you to those that drafted it and did the organisation on launchpad , and going over the vote script :)
<cariboo907> you've summed it up pretty good s-fox
<elfy> that's still needing some work
<elfy> but we've time
<howefield> how do we want general feedback, a thread in the forums ?
<s-fox> By nature we are forum based, so i think that would be a good idea
<elfy> howefield: I've posted one - will post a general forum thread later
<s-fox> Thank you elfy :)
<howefield> thanks
<elfy> let's get feedback from those affected first
<s-fox> I want to be quick to add i am not expecting a flood of feedback *right now this instant*
<elfy> it can go in the general forum once we're sure of what we are going to do - rather than draft
<s-fox> Agreed elfy , i wish to wait until we have a majority from the CC
<elfy> I'm not sure that the moderator nomination is of concern
<elfy> ok - think move onto fixed items now
<s-fox> I wouldn't want to guess the concerns of others. ;)
 * elfy neither 
<s-fox> Okay,   but before that does anyone have anything that they want to bring up that isn't on the agenda for whatever reason :)
<elfy> other than it has been the province of the FC up till now
<s-fox> I guess nobody has anything.
<s-fox> Next topic
<elfy> s-fox: that's what we put AOB on the agenda for I thought :)
<s-fox> #topic Division of labour
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Forums Council Meeting | Current topic: Division of labour
<s-fox> Alright, who wants to do what?
<cariboo907> who did what last time? :)
<elfy> sef does
<s-fox> very funny :)
<elfy> not sure what there is on the list anymore tbh - some are long gone now
<howefield> I'm not fussy, what does nobody like doing :)
<Iowan> I *think* I did the report lasttime.
<s-fox> Okay, well there is the team report
<s-fox> i think i fixed it the other month, but that might have been elfy
<Iowan> Then there's the ML
<s-fox> hmm
<elfy> team report should be done regardless of there being a meeting
<s-fox> elfy,  +1
<elfy> Iowan: ML is whoever sees it first and approves the post
<s-fox> I think the ml is being looked after generally by a few people though
<Iowan> Similar to Res centre...
<s-fox> to me that is a good thing
<elfy> we changed that at the same time as sending replies to the join notice to dev/null
<s-fox> i only think we had it that way to ensure someone looks at it. i think we are better than we used to be
<s-fox> i don't mind doing the report
<elfy> I think the only thing that needs to be rotated is the report
<Iowan> No new members to add :(
<s-fox> i haven't done the report for a while, i'll do it tomorrow at some point
<elfy> Iowan: not at present - though we actually do those when they get majority
<elfy> shouldn't be on Agenda
<s-fox> oh, does anyone know when the next announcement bot post is due?
<s-fox> that needs checking
<s-fox> hopefully it is fixed :)
<elfy> no - but I'm subscribed to a couple of -announce m/l's
<s-fox> pity we can't fake an announcement to test it
<s-fox> or can we?
<elfy> no
<s-fox> shame
<elfy> IS are waiting for one to appear same as us :)
<s-fox> Oh yes, while i remember. Thank you to IS for sorting out those tickets i created last week :)
<elfy> so all in agreement - QIII can do that?
<s-fox> yes
<s-fox> agreed
<howefield> approved
<Iowan> +1
<s-fox> +!
<coffeecat> +1
<elfy> ok - seems like a wrap then
<QIII> can we review what the payment rate is for that?
<elfy> same as previous
<s-fox> Also, thank you to you all for being active in the running of the forums. to me it feels we are much more organised / active than we have been for a long time :)
<Irihapeti> I don't do anything much...
 * s-fox fires Irihapeti 
<howefield> thanks s-fox et all, and good night :)
<Irihapeti> TY
<s-fox> :D
<s-fox> good night howefield
<s-fox> i think that is it
<s-fox> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Sun Mar  2 20:31:29 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-03-02-20.03.moin.txt
<Iowan> pull the plug and let's go home
<s-fox> Thank you for all coming
<QIII> dang
<Iowan> (slow again)
<s-fox> i already did and am
<caboose885> night everyone!
<s-fox> Goodnight!
<elfy> ok - thanks
<cariboo907> Goodnight all
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-02-23
<tyhicks> hello
<mdeslaur> \o
<jjohansen> o/
<chrisccoulson> \o
 * sbeattie aves
<sbeattie> waves, even
<tyhicks> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Feb 23 16:36:48 2015 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<tyhicks> Chris Pollock provided a debdiff for lucid for ClamAV (LP: #1420819). Your work is very much appreciated and will keep Ubuntu users secure. Great job! Smile :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1420819 in clamav (Ubuntu) "ClamAV 0.98.6 security update for Lucid" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1420819
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<tyhicks> jdstrand: you're up
<jdstrand> hi!
<jdstrand> I plan on focusing on snappy this week. specifically, hw access
<jdstrand> I need to also update the SnappyConfinement spec since it is out of date
<jdstrand> tyhicks: we need to discuss overlayfs with slangasek sometime soon
<jdstrand> tyhicks: we don't have to plan that now, but let's discuss after the meeting
 * tyhicks nods
<jdstrand> I also need to get to some review tools changes
<jdstrand> I'll move on to other bits after that (frameworks, fingerprint, etc)
<jdstrand> I think that's it from me
<tyhicks> thanks
<tyhicks> mdeslaur: your turn
<mdeslaur> I'm currently testing the samba updates
<mdeslaur> I plan on publishing samba and e2fsprogs updates today
<mdeslaur> and some ca-certificates updates with a new bundle in them
<mdeslaur> after that, I'm going to work on freetype updates
<mdeslaur> that's it for me, sbeattie, you're up
<sbeattie> I'm on cve triage this week, so relearning that.
<tyhicks> :)
<sbeattie> I need to push for sponsorship of apparmor and apparmor-easyprof-ubuntu into vivid, after completing testing of that last week
<sbeattie> I've uploaded gcc-5 packages with pie by default and set as the default compiler to https://launchpad.net/~sbeattie/+archive/ubuntu/gcc-pie-amd64/, and will be testing those.
<sbeattie> (gcc-5 is the planned compiler for vivid+1)
<sbeattie> that's pretty much it for me.
<chrisccoulson> fantastic, I look forward to fixing the fall out of that in oxide :)
<tyhicks> sbeattie: nice!
<sbeattie> chrisccoulson: it will be awesome, I assure, based on some of the gcc-5 breakage I've seen already.
<chrisccoulson> sbeattie, I'll just assign all bugs to doko
<sbeattie> hehe
<sbeattie> tyhicks: you're up.
<tyhicks> I will retest and publish ecryptfs-utils security updates after the changes get acked for merging upstream
<tyhicks> I need to review and test an ecryptfs kernel fix from cking (thanks!)
<tyhicks> I need to dig into an ecryptfs data loss issue on btrfs
<tyhicks> I'll propose a v2 of the libapparmor API changes this week
<tyhicks> and I need to review some overlayfs related changes that went into 4.0-rc1 over the weekend
<tyhicks> they look like they might be related to a patch set that jjohansen and I thought may fix some of the issues that we are seeing with overlayfs and apparmor
<tyhicks> that'll feed into the discussion that jdstrand mentioned above
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> I need to dig into why the fd inheritance tests are dying on krillin bug 1423810
<jjohansen> poke someone again to verify the fix for bug 1408833 works for them, so I can push it to the kt.
<jjohansen> Hopefully get a discussion of v2 libapparmor aa_features API in
<ubottu> bug 1423810 in apparmor (Ubuntu) "[krillin] apparmor fd_inheritance regression test causes kernel to crash" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1423810
<ubottu> bug 1408833 in AppArmor "broken postinst test for uvtool-libvirt on utopic" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1408833
<jjohansen> It looks like I might need to possibly poke at some overlayfs changes
<jjohansen> and of course I have apparmor kernel cleanups for upstream to continue working
<jjohansen> on
<jjohansen> I think that is it for me, sarnold you're up
<tyhicks> jjohansen: are you making much progress on the upstreaming work or has there been too many other distractions popping up?
<jjohansen> tyhicks: less progress than I would like, there have been a fair few distractions, but it depends on the week
<tyhicks> ok
<jjohansen> I need to focus on getting a first set of patches together to push this next cycle
<tyhicks> that'd be great
<jjohansen> yeah
<tyhicks> especially now that AA mediation landed in upstream D-Bus
<tyhicks> folks will want to start using that soon :)
<tyhicks> go ahead, sarnold
<jjohansen> oh yes, and a big congratulations to tyhicks on pushing that through
<sbeattie> +1
<sarnold> I'm on community this week; I'm working on several MIRs for the server team, horizon security update, and talking with ibm about the ppc64-diag mir review from a few weeks ago
<sarnold> tyhicks: hehe, yes, congratulations :)
<tyhicks> thanks! :)
<sarnold> I might get an apparmor patch or two reviewed in the meantime for some variety, but I'm not likely to make it through an entire patch series.
<sarnold> that's it for me, chrisccoulson?
<chrisccoulson> I should be back to a normal working routine this week
<chrisccoulson> I've got Firefox + Thunderbird updates to do
<chrisccoulson> And other than that, I'll be working on embargoed stuff
<chrisccoulson> that's me done
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/ckeditor.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/obby.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/zookeeper.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/davfs2.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gambas3.html
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<tyhicks> jdstrand, mdeslaur, sbeattie, jjohansen, chrisccoulson: Thanks!
<tyhicks> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Feb 23 17:04:16 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-02-23-16.36.moin.txt
<sbeattie> tych0: thanks!
<jjohansen> thanks tyhicks
<sbeattie> err, tyhicks: thanks!
<mdeslaur> thanks tyhicks!
<jjohansen> :)
<sarnold> thanks tyhicks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-02-24
<smoser> o.
<smoser> o./
<gnuoy> o/
<gaughen> \o
<kickinz1> o/
<yggdrasi1> o/
<zul> im guessing im running the meeting today
<zul> (even though *cough*)
<coreycb> o/
<smb> o/
<gaughen> zul, you don't get to stop this meeting duty
<zul> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Feb 24 16:01:20 2015 UTC.  The chair is zul. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<zul> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<matsubara> o/
<zul> anything from the last meeting
<gaughen> I think we closed the only open action item
<zul> oh goody
<rharper> \o
<zul> #topic V Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: V Development
<zul> smoser do you want to take this item?
<smoser> sure
<strikov> o/
<beisner> o/
<smoser> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VividVervet/ReleaseSchedule
<gaughen> final freeze is april 16
<smoser> today is february 24th, so we are 2 days before beta.
<smoser> so things should be shaping up.
<smoser> i know i have work to do ... cloud-init has some shaping up still to do
<smoser> but please just be aware of where we are in the cycle as you upload things.
<smoser> thats it. moving on ?
<gaughen> smoser, rbasak and I were talking about the component mismatches
<gaughen> the list didn't seem too bad
<gaughen> that's it
<zul> thats it?
<zul> anything else?
<zul> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<zul> caribou: around?
<caribou> zul: yep
<caribou> and nothing particular this week
<zul> ok cool any questions for caribou
<zul> ok moving on
<zul> #Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (?)
<zul> anyone from the qa team?
<zul> beisner: ?
<zul> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
<zul> smb hi
<smb> Nothing in general. jamespage there is a kernel heading your way, though. :) And maybe repeating the notice of a 3.19 replacing 3.18 in vivid soon.
<jamespage> smb, awesome
<beisner> not update from me - matsubara, any update re: qa tests?
<matsubara> nothing from me
<jamespage> smb, oh the openvswitch backport that jsalisbury did looks ok btw
<jamespage> finally hacked it into serverstack
<smb> ok and good or bad?
<smb> oh looks ok
<smb> jamespage, thanks
<zul> anything else for smb?
<zul> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<zul> So there is ODS is may
<zul> in the great no so white north of vancouver
<zul> anything else?
<zul> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion
<zul> so yeah
<zul> since you are all so much awake
 * rharper blinks
 * beisner stretches
<zul> if nothing else thanks for coming
<zul> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Feb 24 16:12:35 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-02-24-16.01.moin.txt
<gnuoy> thanks zul
<beisner> thanks zul!
<rharper> zul: thanks!
<caribou> thanks zul
<kickinz1> thanks zul
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Feb 24 17:00:29 2015 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Vivid
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<cking_> \o
<smb> \\o
<ppisati> o/
<kamal> o/
<henrix> o/
<_bjf> o/
<sforshee> o/
<ogasawara> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Vivid Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Vivid Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> We are preparing to shove our 3.19 based kernel following beta freeze.
<ogasawara> When it lands, please do test and let us know your results.
<ogasawara> -----
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VividVervet/ReleaseSchedule
<ogasawara> Thurs Feb 26 - Beta 1 (~2 days away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Mar 26 - Final Beta (~4 weeks away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Apr 09 - Kernel Freeze (~6 weeks away)
<chiluk> o/
<ogasawara> ..
 * chiluk is 1 minute late..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's
<jsalisbury> The current CVE status can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Utopic/Trusty/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/kamal/arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Utopic/Trusty/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/kamal/arges)
<_bjf>  Status for the main kernels, until today:
<_bjf>    *   Lucid - Testing
<_bjf>    * Precise - Testing
<_bjf>    *  Trusty - Testing
<_bjf>    *  Utopic - Testing
<_bjf>   
<_bjf>  Current opened tracking bugs details:
<_bjf>    * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<_bjf>  For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<_bjf>    * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/sru-report.html
<_bjf>   
<_bjf>   
<_bjf>  Schedule:
<_bjf>   
<_bjf>  Current cycle had ended. Waiting for next cycle to start on Feb. 08.
<_bjf>   
<_bjf>  cycle: 06-Feb through 28-Feb
<_bjf>  ====================================================================
<_bjf>           06-Feb   Last day for kernel commits for this cycle
<_bjf>  08-Feb - 14-Feb   Kernel prep week.
<_bjf>  15-Feb - 28-Feb   Bug verification; Regression testing; Release
<_bjf>   
<_bjf>  ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Feb 24 17:04:07 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-02-24-17.00.moin.txt
<kamal> thanks jsalisbury
 * ejat brb
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-02-26
<cyphermox> o/
<mvo> hey
<sil2100> \o
<barry> o/
 * slangasek waves
<jodh> \o
<caribou> o/
<robru> morning
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Feb 26 16:01:54 2015 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity mvo sil2100 robru cyphermox)
<slangasek> sil2100 caribou infinity cyphermox slangasek robru barry bdmurray jodh stgraber mvo doko
<slangasek> sil2100: go!
<sil2100> Again!
<sil2100> Lucky me
<sil2100> - Landing team work, silo coordination, preparing landing e-mails
<sil2100> - Promotion of the RC image for the early ww09-2015 milestone
<sil2100> - RTM status meetings
<sil2100> - Attending the CI stakeholder meeting
<sil2100> - Preparing announcements and formalities for new landing rules
<sil2100> - Coordingating quick-fixes for BQ
<sil2100> - Hacking up a way to include the new device-tarball to the existing RC/stable image
<sil2100>   * Needed to get a factory fix released without the rootfs
<sil2100> - Archive diff automated scripts
<sil2100>   * Some work on the presentation layer
<sil2100>   * Still lacking time to finish everything up
<sil2100> - One day off due to tax-duties
<sil2100> - Pushing people on fixes, FFe's and AP tests
<sil2100> ...aand probably something I missed
<sil2100> (done)
<caribou>  Bugfix :
<caribou>   - squid-deb-proxy hangs on trusty boot
<caribou>   - CUPS : SRU for bug #1352809 (-h override) completed (thanks bdmurray)
<ubottu> bug 1352809 in cups (Ubuntu Utopic) "/usr/bin/lp on Trusty using -h option doesn't work as expected" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1352809
<caribou>   - rsyslog memory leak (LP: #1423586) continued tests
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1423586 in rsyslog (Ubuntu Trusty) "Please backport memory leak fixes present up to 7.4.6" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1423586
<caribou>   - libvirtd lost floating IP : tested AppArmor patch backport
<caribou>  Work on Crash Dump Infrastructure Proof Of Concept
<caribou>  Completed deja-dup FTBS fix
<caribou>   - triggered cjwatson investigation on build failure
<caribou> (done)
<slangasek> no infinity yet
<slangasek> cyphermox:
<cyphermox>  * review/upload fix for grub-installer bug 1354730
<cyphermox>  * investigation/fix for ubiquity bug 1423161
<cyphermox>  * discussed NM 0.9.10 bugs with Tony (and how to build, etc.) on vivid
<ubottu> bug 1354730 in grub-installer (Ubuntu Trusty) "14.04 grub-install failed: Wrong number of args: mapdevfs <path>" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1354730
<ubottu> bug 1423161 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "No try/install dialogue displayed" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1423161
<cyphermox>  * bug investigation into NM DNS delays / 3G physical device management
<cyphermox>  * testing console-setup merge for 1.108
<cyphermox>    - debugging a larger preseeding issue with mini.iso that appears from utopic
<cyphermox>    - turns out it's --- vs -- to get the parameters into the installer
<cyphermox>    - doing an update for d-i, installation-guide for --- vs --
<cyphermox>    - still needs a bit more work for keyboard names strings showing as Ks.
<cyphermox> Today:
<cyphermox>  * more NM debugging for DNS delays and bug 1425760.
<ubottu> bug 1425760 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "NM takes a long time to discover and connect to wifi after suspend/resume and roaming" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1425760
<cyphermox>  * finish up testing console-setup for upload.
<cyphermox> (done)
<slangasek>  * snappy: image was not promoted last week, so that's happening this week
<slangasek>   * still need to review grub config changes for a/b partition failover
<slangasek> (done)
<slangasek>   * package review for new go API packages needed for new version of snappy
<slangasek>  * phone channel refactoring
<slangasek>  * performance review: insert self-evaluation and 360 review nag here
<robru> not ready, please come back to me.
<barry> si: meetings for future features; system-image server branches
<barry> snappy: experimenting on stuff
<barry> debuntu: discussions around `pip --user`  LP: #1363642 (debian bug #744145)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1363642 in python-pip (Ubuntu) "pip breaks after upgrading python package "requests"" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1363642
<ubottu> Debian bug 744145 in python-pip "pip crashes on "import requests"" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/744145
<barry> other: code reviews for the citrain (robru); cloud-init py3 fixes; performance reviews
<barry> --done--
<bdmurray> pushed back_populate_system_image_counters.py and submitted RT to have the job run
<bdmurray> worked with thedac to get the backfill of system image counters running
<bdmurray> updated RT re counters backfill job to run for all of January 2015
<bdmurray> pinged webops regarding errors staging being down (juju storm - fixed)
<bdmurray> pushed daisy and errors changes to filter by packageset
<bdmurray> queried cassandra to find quantity of crashes for packages with missing ddebs
<bdmurray> updated meta-release files for 14.04.2
<bdmurray> updated bug bot with 14.04.2 iso identity information
<bdmurray> review of ubuntu-release-upgrader merge proposal re [lx]ubuntu-core
<bdmurray> merged ubuntu-release-upgrader changes regarding [xl]ubuntu-core and DistUpgrade.cfg
<bdmurray> further fixing of DistUpgradeKDE pyflakes issues
<bdmurray> modified whoopsie to always log the OOPS ID for trusty in my ppa
<bdmurray> tested apport-noui some more from mythtv
<bdmurray> submitted a merge proposal fixing apport bug LP: #1345653
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1345653 in apport (Ubuntu) "apport-gtk crashed with EOFError in _read_exact(): Compressed file ended before the end-of-stream marker was reached" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1345653
<bdmurray> submitted apport merge proposal not to check bug patterns if the crashdb isn't accepting that type of report e.g for crashes from utopic
<bdmurray> wrote blog post regarding automatic crash reporting
<bdmurray> wrote sru-remove to remove a package with SRU bugs that haven't been verified
<bdmurray> updated sru-report to give commands for running sru-remove
<bdmurray> irc discussion with cjwatson regarding updating the pending sru report to look at update_excuses.yaml
<bdmurray> worked on having sru-report check update_excuses.yaml for autopkgtest failures
<bdmurray> sent email to the SRU team regarding sru-remove script
<bdmurray> overrode phased update crash rate increase for apport
<bdmurray> â done
<jodh> * upstart
<jodh>   - Uploaded fixes for a nasty security issue in vivid (bug 1425685) - thanks to cjwatson for reviews!
<ubottu> bug 1425685 in upstart (Ubuntu) "Missing input sanitation in upstart logrotation cronjob" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1425685
<jodh> * snappy:
<jodh>   - lp:~jamesodhunt/ubuntu/vivid/ubuntu-core-upgrader/allow-assets-unpack
<jodh>   - initramfs-tools-ubuntu-core changes:
<jodh>     - lp:~jamesodhunt/ubuntu/vivid/initramfs-tools-ubuntu-core/bug-1423529
<jodh>     - lp:~jamesodhunt/ubuntu/vivid/initramfs-tools-ubuntu-core/mount-boot-partition-with-sync
<jodh>   - Investigations into a snappy-go global logging (which uncovered the fact that
<jodh>     we need to enable persistent system logging for snappy).
<jodh>   - Promotion testing (... lots :)
<jodh>   - Discissions with pitti on automating update/rollback/reboot testing
<jodh>     to reduce number of man-days spent promotion testing.
<jodh>   - Documented current internal process for regenerating a snappy initrd / device_part.
<jodh>   - Updates to "Snappy Image Tests" doc.
<jodh> * TODO:
<jodh>   - Working on tests for the ubuntu-core-upgrader.
<jodh> ð
<mvo> no stgraber?
<mvo> click:
<mvo> - branch merges, some ci-train fighting, release 0.4.38.3
<mvo>   (stuck in -proposed right now)
<mvo> snappy:
<mvo> - preparing the alpha release
 * stgraber waves
<mvo> - lots of snappy-go work
<mvo> - push changes from PPA to the main archive (more to do here)
<mvo> misc:
<mvo> - fix for blu-ray burning bts #713016 (LP: #113679)
<mvo> - fix freeradius upstart reload (thanks to urusha)
<mvo> - review/merge fix for unattended-upgrades #1422345 and upload new version
<mvo> (done)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 113679 in xorg-server (Ubuntu Dapper) "xorg freezes when running openoffice" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/113679
<stgraber>  - Was presenting LXD at the Linux Collaboration Summit last week
<stgraber>  - LXCFS
<stgraber>    - 0.6 bugfix release
<stgraber>  - LXD
<stgraber>    - 0.1 was released and uploaded
<stgraber>    - 0.2 should be tagged today if all goes well (was scheduled for Tuesday)
<stgraber>    - preparing for 0.3 next week
<stgraber>    - Plenty of code review and bugfixes
<stgraber>  - LXC
<stgraber>    - Code review and CI infrastructure work (IRC bot for github/travis/jenkins webhooks)
<stgraber>  - system-image
<stgraber>    - Branch reviews, minor bugfixes and some channel tweaks for touch.
<stgraber> (done)
<robru> no doko?
<robru> i'm ready now
<robru> * CI Train:
<robru>   - Record which revnos of which MPs are built in order to refuse publishing MPs that have new, unbuilt commits.
<robru>   - Fixed a few unhandled exceptions discovered in production
<robru>   - ported to python3, which included a massive 3,000 line overhaul of unicode handling logic at all inputs and outputs
<robru>   - Simplified changelog parsing/generation, improving consistency and test coverage, reducing weird corner cases.
<robru>   - other misc maintenance increasing testability and test coverage
<robru>   - discovered and fixed SSO misconfiguration in production.
<slangasek> robru: go ahead
<robru> * and the usual pile of landings overseen.
<robru> (done)
<slangasek> doko: around?
<slangasek> I assume your status report just consists of http://www.wherethehellismatt.com/videos anyways
<slangasek> any questions over status?
<slangasek> gonna be another short meeting then :)
<sil2100> ;)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Feature freeze
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Feature freeze
<slangasek> we're in feature freeze, since last Thursday
<slangasek> anyone have work still ongoing that we should be looking at FFe for?
<barry> o/  ->  system-image 3.0
<slangasek> ok
<barry> i'll file the ffe today
<cyphermox> do you consider console-setup a bugfix or a feature?
<slangasek> that seems like it ought to be covered by the phone blanket FFe which hasn't been granted, right?
<barry> that was my understanding
<slangasek> cyphermox: it should probably go through an FFe, the bug it's fixing is "skew with Debian"
<slangasek> and "blocking new initramfs-tools"
<cyphermox> I'll write the ffe then
<barry> i have a beta in my ppa, but there'll be one more feature for mvo & snappy
<mvo> a tiny one
<mvo> :)
<barry> :)
<slangasek> heh
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else?
<barry> we'll need to roll out a server change too though for it to go to any phone/snappy channels
<slangasek> ah, good to know
<caribou> slangasek: does the PlusOne maintenance team still exists ?
<slangasek> caribou: currently the de facto answer is no; we've been stalled on refactoring that
 * sil2100 would actually like to partake in the PlusOne maintenance once again
<sil2100> After this touch rush slows down a bit at least
<caribou> I meant to help with FTBS but found little info about PlusOne
<caribou> I mean people being involved with it. I got the FTBS fixed & sponsored though
<slangasek> caribou: do you have some time to commit to +1 this month?
<caribou> slangasek: i'm trying to ; looking at the FTBS list to see where I can help
<slangasek> caribou: great; /join #ubuntu+1-maint
<caribou> slangasek: ok, I thought this one was dead
<slangasek> and if you have questions, you can ping me/doko/infinity
<slangasek> it's very dead ;)
<slangasek> but the work still needs doing
<caribou> slangasek: ok just got there, thanks
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Feb 26 16:18:45 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-02-26-16.01.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks, folks!
<caribou> thanks slangasek
<sil2100> o/
<barry> thanks!
<cyphermox> \o
<mvo> thanks
<jodh> thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-02-29
<tyhicks> hello
<mdeslaur> hi!
<tyhicks> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Feb 29 16:36:01 2016 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<tyhicks> Stefan Bader (smb) provided debdiffs for precise-wily for xen
<tyhicks> Thank you for your assistance in keeping Ubuntu users secure! :)
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<tyhicks> jdstrand: you're up
<jdstrand_> hey
<jdstrand_> I'll be following up on the squashfs snap checks this week
<jdstrand_> that is coming along fine, expect no issues
<jdstrand_> I'll also be trying to chase down the next work for interfaces (formerlay known as skills formerly known as capabilities)
<jdstrand_> and an embargoed issue
<jdstrand_> that's it for me
<jdstrand_> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm working on a couple of embargoed issues
<mdeslaur> and I may take on another embargoed issue
<mdeslaur> and after that, I'll do squid3 updates
<mdeslaur> and I'm on triage this week
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up
<sbeattie> I'm in the happy place this week
<sbeattie> I'm focusing on tracking down some remaining gcc pie build failures this week
<sbeattie> I also have an embargoed issue
<sbeattie> I also will likely have some kernel cve tracking things pop up
<sbeattie> that will likely consume my week
<sbeattie> tyhicks: over to you
<tyhicks> I had a question for mdeslaur
<tyhicks> mdeslaur: are you still working on sudo backports to address the time issue
<mdeslaur> no
<tyhicks> ack
<tyhicks> I'm on community this week
<tyhicks> I'm still working on the apparmor_parser patches needed for stacking
<tyhicks> and I'm still trying to get to an eCryptfs bug (LP: #1543633)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1543633 in eCryptfs "Data corruption during parallel file copying with interruptions" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1543633
<tyhicks> I also have a couple embargoed issues
<tyhicks> sarnold: you're up
<sarnold> i'm on bug triage this week
<sarnold> I've got an embargoed issue to work on
<sarnold> then I return to MIRs for the rest of the week
<sarnold> that's it for me, chrisccoulson?
<tyhicks> sarnold: next MIR up is a re-review of openjpeg
<sarnold> tyhicks: thanks
<tyhicks> np
<chrisccoulson> I'll be preparing Firefox updates this week (for next weeks release), and I still need to get Thunderbird out
<chrisccoulson> Other than that, I'll be focusing on convergence tasks in Oxide, as long as I don't spend time fire-fighting again this week :)
<chrisccoulson> That's me done
<tyhicks> thanks
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/kgb.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gallery.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gridengine.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gallery2.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/openstack-trove.html
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<tyhicks> jdstrand, mdeslaur, sbeattie, sarnold, ChrisCoulson: Thanks!
<tyhicks> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Feb 29 16:50:22 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-02-29-16.36.moin.txt
<sarnold> thanks tyhicks
<mdeslaur> thanks tyhicks!
<sbeattie> tyhicks: thanks!
<cyphermox> #startmeeting DMB 2016-02-29
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Feb 29 19:15:25 2016 UTC.  The chair is cyphermox. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB 2016-02-29 Meeting | Current topic:
<cyphermox> Welcome to the Developer Membership board meeting :)
<coreycb> o/
<cyphermox> #voters bdmurray cyphermox xnox infinity stgraber Laney micahg
<meetingology> Warning: Nick not in channel: infinity
<meetingology> Current voters: Laney bdmurray cyphermox infinity micahg stgraber xnox
<cyphermox> ^ ping DMB members :)
<micahg> nice!
 * stgraber waves
<cyphermox> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB 2016-02-29 Meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items
 * bdmurray waves
<cyphermox> Has there been any changes to the current only action item listed on the agenda?
<bdmurray> I don't think so.
<cyphermox> right on
<cyphermox> let's keep going
<cyphermox> #topic Package Set/Per Package Uploader Applications
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB 2016-02-29 Meeting | Current topic: Package Set/Per Package Uploader Applications
<cyphermox> #subtopic Corey Bryant's openstack package set
<coreycb> Hi all
<coreycb> well, I don't want to jump the gun but I might as well introduce myself
<cyphermox> ah, yes, please do :)
<coreycb> I work primarily on OpenStack packaging, in 2015 I led several stable releases and in 2016 I started leading the new release of OpenStack Mitaka
<coreycb> Last year I was granted per package upload rights to ubuntu-server-dev
<coreycb> my application today is combined for core-dev and per-package upload rights to a newly created openstack package set
<coreycb> having per-package upload rights to ubuntu-server-dev has been helpful, but I still have to bother jamespage and zul quite a bit for uploads that I can do myself.  having additional upload rights would really help streamline my work.
<coreycb> I contribute back to debian quite a bit too, and am a member of pkg-openstack and debian python modules team
<coreycb> I think that's about it for my introduction.  for further details, here's my application wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CoreyBryant/CoreDevAndOpenStackApplication
<coreycb> Also here's a list of packages for the openstack package set: http://paste.ubuntu.com/15094028/
<micahg> coreycb: are you aware that core dev offers upload rights to the entire archive?
<micahg> well, except partner
<coreycb> micahg, yes, of course
<coreycb> micahg, I"m hoping for core-dev, but my fallback plan is openstack package set.  however, the openstack package set will be useful either way as we have at least one other person right now (and I hope more in the future) who work on openstack packaging who don't yet have rights.
<micahg> ok
<bdmurray> Could you elaborate on what you mean by "improve the efficiency of my workflows through experience, automation, and various tooling efficiencies"?
<coreycb> bdmurray, that's pretty generic, but I'm always learning tricks here and there to make my workflows more efficient
<coreycb> bdmurray, we have quite a few packages to maintain, so whether it's scripting or tips and tricks from other package maitainers, I continually try to improve my process
<bdmurray> so not improvements to ubuntu-dev-tools or anything else?
<coreycb> bdmurray, nothing in particular.  although being able to re-run autopkgtests was a nice improvement
<coreycb> bdmurray, also I used to use pbuilder and found sbuild was faster with caching in effect, that's an example.
<bdmurray> okay, I was just idly curious
<cyphermox> coreycb: my concern with your application for that package set is how much stuff it covers that isn't openstack-specific
<coreycb> cyphermox, yes, I was a bit unsure with that to be honest.  so I figured I'd put all the deps that I know of and if we need to reduce it then so be it.
<cyphermox> coreycb: tbh, your original list in https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2015-December/000880.html seemed like it better covered openstack, and then other build-depends are just a fact of life when maintaining any set of packages
<cyphermox> (though that list might in fact be missing some things too)
<coreycb> cyphermox, I can narrow the list down to openstack-only packages, rather than all openstack dependencies
<cyphermox> yes, if you could
<coreycb> cyphermox, ok I will, after the meeting if that's ok
<cyphermox> I think it's probably missing mostly just python-ceilo*, python-designate*, python-glance*
<cyphermox> hrm
<cyphermox> well, I have nothing against it being refined off-meeting, but that does make the voting complicated
<cyphermox> what do others think?
<coreycb> cyphermox, there are quite a few that are openstack specific, oslo.*  the python clients and some more
<cyphermox> coreycb: yep, I see
<cyphermox> let's skip ahead to the other topics then, this would give you time to update the list?
<coreycb> cyphermox, I could prob narrow it down before the end of the meeting if you move to another topic
<coreycb> yes
<stgraber> right, we can't vote on the packageset or on giving you PPU to the set until we agree on a list :)
<coreycb> stgraber, ack
<cyphermox> ok, skipping over to flexiondotorg
<cyphermox> #subtopic flexiondotorg (Martin Wimpress) PPU application for Ubuntu MATE packages
<cyphermox> flexiondotorg: you around?
<cyphermox> looks like maybe not
<cyphermox> #topic Ubuntu Core Developer Applications
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB 2016-02-29 Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Core Developer Applications
<cyphermox> #subtopic Phillip Susi's core-dev application
<cyphermox> ... yet no psusi in the channel?
<bdmurray> his application seemed a bit incomplete to me
<cyphermox> I don't know if he's also known by another nick
<cyphermox> let's move on again
<cyphermox> #subtopic Tyler Hicks' core-dev application
<tyhicks> I was set to be on next week's agenda but I am around now
<cyphermox> oh, right
<tyhicks> ah, nice
<tyhicks> I'm happy to go now
<cyphermox> hrm
<cyphermox> technically we usually expect a week's notice IIRC
<sarnold> I wanted to add an endorsement for tyhicks's application but the few times I checked his wikipage was marked "immutable"
<bdmurray> I get a 500 tring to load his application too
<cyphermox> not that I care much for that "rule". does anyone object?
<bdmurray> s/tring/trying/
<cyphermox> yeah, the wiki is bad today :/
<tyhicks> the wiki has been bad today
<cyphermox> got the page
<cyphermox> let me pastebinit
<cyphermox> http://paste.ubuntu.com/15246428/
<tyhicks> I'll do a quick intro
<tyhicks> I'm part of the Ubuntu Security team
<tyhicks> I've been active in the -security pockets for ~4 years now
<tyhicks> I also work on upstream AppArmor and eCryptfs in support of needed Ubuntu features and bug fixes
<tyhicks> I review quite a bit of security related merge proposals that eventually land in Ubuntu, as well
<bdmurray> Your application mentions a "I've introduced few regressions". Do you recall any specific ones? If so how did they happen and how were they resolved?
<tyhicks> good question
<tyhicks> I can't recall a specific regression from a security update but there were a couple
<tyhicks> I treat those with extremly high priority
<tyhicks> the security team tries very hard to not regress users with updates
<tyhicks> after I perform a security update, I closely watch the new bug reports for that source package
<tyhicks> I have a browser keyword that lets me quickly view the bugs for a source package, sorted by when they were opened
<tyhicks> so I check that bug list, several times a day, for approximately a week after I do an update
<tyhicks> I triage all new bug reports to make sure that they're not caused by the security update
<tyhicks> if they are, I would work quickly to figure out the cause and upload a fix
<tyhicks> then I'd release a new Ubuntu Security Notice to explain the regression
<tyhicks> sorry I can't remember a specific regression but that would be how I would address any such regression
<bdmurray> okay, thanks
<bdmurray> sarnold: did you want to say something since it didn't make the wiki?
<sarnold> bdmurray: thanks; I've found tyler to be very helpful over the last several years -- he's always willing to help me solve problems and find the root causes of issues.
<tyhicks> thanks, sarnold :)
<sarnold> tyler does careful, thoughtful work, and very thouroughly tests issues locally before releasing packages or patches
<sarnold> he's also able to ask others for help when necessary :)
<micahg> Hi Tyler, I've noticed that you only appear to have 5 sponsored uploads to the main archive in the last 18 months, is there a reason you're applying now as opposed to earlier when you were seemingly more active in the main archive
<tyhicks> hi micahg
<tyhicks> micahg: I should have applied earlier
<tyhicks> I don't have a reason as to why that didn't happen outside of time
<tyhicks> I grew tired of having to ask others for sponsoring and put my foot down this time around :)
<tyhicks> if my application is approved, I strongly feel like my activity in the main archive will increase
 * jdstrand knows he will-- he'll stop doing the apparmor uploads at the very least ;)
<jdstrand> hey micahg :)
<jdstrand> too many pronouns
<micahg> hi jdstrand
<jdstrand> I know tyhicks will do more uploads cause I will be doing fewer :)
<tyhicks> that's a good point
<jdstrand> the same for kirk land
<jdstrand> I imagine
<tyhicks> yes
<tyhicks> micahg: does that answer your question?
<micahg> well, partially, if it's mainly 2 (or a handful) packages that you need upload rights to in order to relieve others of the need to upload, wouldn't PPU be more appropriate?
<jdstrand> fwiw, tyhicks is highly active with main between ecryptfs, apparmor, touch and snappy. having him with core-dev will allow him to more effectively work on those projects and the devel release, where he can do security updates rather than having others do them/sponsor them
<tyhicks> it isn't a handful of package that I need upload rights to
<tyhicks> for instance, I'm in the process of updating didiwiki for a security issue as part of my Security Team community work this week
<tyhicks> stable releases are affected as well as Xenial
<tyhicks> being able to upload to the dev release is important since I do security updates in wide range of packages
<micahg> right, but I"m wondering what happened in the last year or so where that work hasn't seemingly been reflected
 * jdstrand always felt that being a member of the security team and able to update anything in a stable release but not (yet) a core-dev to be an odd incongruency
<bdmurray> tyhicks: were you less active in main recently because you were developing apparmor features?
<micahg> jdstrand: I tend to agree with that :)
<jdstrand> anyway, I don't mean to distract...
<tyhicks> bdmurray: yes - developing apparmor features is one reason my upload count decreased
<micahg> were you not doing community rotations on the security team during that time that required dev release uploadS?
<tyhicks> however, my security upload count didn't decrease: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/tyhicks/CoreDevApplicationSecUploads
<tyhicks> micahg: I've been in and out of the rotations while developing features
<micahg> I've been referencing http://ubuntu-dev.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu-sponsorships.cgi?render=html&sponsor=&sponsor_search=name&sponsoree=Tyler+Hicks&sponsoree_search=name
<cyphermox> Are we ready to vote?
<tyhicks> ubuntu-sponsorships doesn't cover security uploads which is why I created the extra list
<cyphermox> right, and picking one near the end from the sponsored list shows that (for example), ecryptfs-utils you did changes in, just Dustin claimed the upload/sponsored
<tyhicks> correct
<tyhicks> I believe you're referring to this one: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ecryptfs-utils/110-0ubuntu1
<cyphermox> yep
<cyphermox> #vote grant Tyler Hicks core-dev rights
<meetingology> Please vote on: grant Tyler Hicks core-dev rights
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<cyphermox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
<bdmurray> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bdmurray
<stgraber> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
<micahg> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from micahg
<cyphermox> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: grant Tyler Hicks core-dev rights
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<tyhicks>  \o/
<cyphermox> I'll take care of the LP magic right after the meeting
<cyphermox> coreycb: still around?
<coreycb> yes!
<coreycb> congrats tyhicks!
<cyphermox> bdmurray: do you have time to deal with the packageset?
<coreycb> Here's the new list for the openstack pkg set: http://paste.ubuntu.com/15246586/
<coreycb> also reminder I'm going for core-dev as well
<cyphermox> yeah
<cyphermox> the meeting is getting pretty long though
<coreycb> I was afraid of that..
<cyphermox> just trying to make sure we have quorum
<cyphermox> #topic openstack packageset
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB 2016-02-29 Meeting | Current topic: openstack packageset
<bdmurray> cyphermox: I think we should be fair and finish.
<cyphermox> ah?
<cyphermox> do we have people waiting for a meeting after?
<bdmurray> I mean finish talking about coreycb since we started with him.
<cyphermox> ah, yes
<cyphermox> that's my opinion too
<bdmurray> Perhaps we should address core-dev first though?
 * cyphermox shrugs
<coreycb> bdmurray, that is fine with me, either way, I appreciate your time on this
<cyphermox> I'd deal with the packageset first tbh, especially since it's fairly straightforward
<bdmurray> okay
<cyphermox> #vote Creating the openstack package from the revised list from coreycb: http://paste.ubuntu.com/15246586/
<meetingology> Please vote on: Creating the openstack package from the revised list from coreycb: http://paste.ubuntu.com/15246586/
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<cyphermox> *package set, that should have read
<stgraber> -1 with that description
<meetingology> -1 with that description received from stgraber
<cyphermox> arf
<stgraber> we need sets to have a description that lets us update them on request
<stgraber> having the description be "some hardcoded list we were handed over" isn't acceptable
<cyphermox> do you have a suggested description?
<cyphermox> I was fine with "openstack packages"
<cyphermox> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Creating the openstack package from the revised list from coreycb: http://paste.ubuntu.com/15246586/
<meetingology> Votes for:0 Votes against:1 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion denied
<stgraber> upstream openstack components?
<stgraber> clearly "openstack packages" isn't clear enough given that we were provided two different lists one of which was clearly unsuitable
<cyphermox> (vote) Creating the openstack package set (upstream openstack components) starting with the revised list from coreycb: http://paste.ubuntu.com/15246586/
<cyphermox> ^ ?
<stgraber> fine with me
<cyphermox> #vote Creating the openstack package set (upstream openstack components) starting with the revised list from coreycb: http://paste.ubuntu.com/15246586/
<meetingology> Please vote on: Creating the openstack package set (upstream openstack components) starting with the revised list from coreycb: http://paste.ubuntu.com/15246586/
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<stgraber> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
<micahg> selenium is the only package in there that looks a bit out of place
<cyphermox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
<cyphermox> oh, is there no selenium package?
<coreycb> I'm ok dropping that
<micahg> yeah, I don't see one
<stgraber> oh, well, you kinda have to considering it doesn't exist in the archive :)
<stgraber> There is no current release for this source package in Ubuntu.
<cyphermox> right
<micahg> +1 without selenium
<meetingology> +1 without selenium received from micahg
<coreycb> yes, I'm noticing that ;)
<bdmurray> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bdmurray
<cyphermox> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Creating the openstack package set (upstream openstack components) starting with the revised list from coreycb: http://paste.ubuntu.com/15246586/
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<coreycb> thanks
<cyphermox> how do we normally proceed next? explicit voting on granting coreycb upload rights for the new package set?
<stgraber> let's do coredev first, then ppu
<cyphermox> ok
<stgraber> because if he gets coredev he won't need ppu
<cyphermox> mmkay
<coreycb> sounds good to me
<cyphermox> #vote Corey to be granted core-dev rights
<meetingology> Please vote on: Corey to be granted core-dev rights
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<stgraber> openstack package set created, ubuntu-openstack-dev team created and configured
<cyphermox> stgraber: thanks
<coreycb> stgraber, thanks
<stgraber> sorry, going back through the application quickly
<coreycb> no problem
<coreycb> one thing I would like to point out is that openstack package PPU rights will be useful, however there are still many dependencies that don't fall under that umbrella, of which core-dev would make my job much easier.
<stgraber> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
<bdmurray> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bdmurray
<cyphermox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
<cyphermox> micahg: ?
<micahg> looking
<cyphermox> ok, just making sure you were still around :)
<micahg> finally got the wiki to load ;)
<micahg> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from micahg
<cyphermox> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Corey to be granted core-dev rights
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<cyphermox> congrats coreycb
<coreycb> thanks!
<coreycb> thanks for your time too, it was a long meeting today
<jamespage> well done coreycb!
<cyphermox> #topic Next chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB 2016-02-29 Meeting | Current topic: Next chair
<cyphermox> I guess it's up to micahg next?
<bdmurray> I think it was supposed to be infinity today
<cyphermox> ah
<cyphermox> well,
<cyphermox> #action infinity to chair next meeting
<meetingology> ACTION: infinity to chair next meeting
<cyphermox> the absent are obviously wrong.
<cyphermox> #topic any other business?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB 2016-02-29 Meeting | Current topic: any other business?
<cyphermox> nothing from me
<micahg> election?
<cyphermox> ah, sure
<cyphermox> a new call for nomination was sent by Dimitri 7 days ago.
<cyphermox> it would be nice to have some nominations
<micahg> I think we only received one nomination if I'm caught up on main
<micahg> s/main/mail/
<cyphermox> I don't see one
<cyphermox> we should extend the deadline and send another call for nominations if we don't have enough
<cyphermox> as I understand it we need 3 at least
<bdmurray> I think we should let people expire to force action! ;-)
<cyphermox> micahg: you want to take care of sending another call?
<micahg> yeah, I guess I can
<cyphermox> two more weeks I guess?
<micahg> well, the terms expire 3/9 (before the next meeting)
<cyphermox> I don't think we'll see enough in one week + 2 days
<cyphermox> we should ask to extend the terms a bit until time X, which would be the end for the call for nomination
<cyphermox> #action micahg to send new call for nominations
<meetingology> ACTION: micahg to send new call for nominations
<cyphermox> I'll be happy to ask TB for term extension for those expiring so we get more nominees
<cyphermox> I think that's enough for the meeting
<cyphermox> stgraber: bdmurray: anything else?
<bdmurray> nope
<cyphermox> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Feb 29 21:03:51 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-02-29-19.15.moin.txt
<cyphermox> tyhicks: coreycb: you've been added to core-dev.
<coreycb> cyphermox, thank you
<tyhicks> thanks cyphermox - I received the email
<cyphermox> woah, TB all expires in 2 hours :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-03-01
<MooDoo> hello all
<Kilos> hi MooDoo and everyone else
<smoser> o/
<jgrimm> o/
<kickinz1> o/
<cpaelzer> o/
<nacc_> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Mar  1 16:00:22 2016 UTC.  The chair is nacc_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<rbasak> o/
<smb> o/
<nacc_> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<nacc_> smoser: bug # 1543025
<smoser> horay
<smoser> finally around to cloud-init. so this week we should see that fixed.
<rbasak> bug 1543025
<ubottu> bug 1543025 in cloud-init (Ubuntu Xenial) "Wrong UTC zoneinfo in cloud-images" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1543025
<rbasak> There we are :)
<nacc_> rbasak: thanks
<nacc_> smoser: great!
<cpaelzer> smoser did you see that the heat on the issue I had yesterday is rising (bug 1551636) ?
<ubottu> bug 1551636 in curtin (Ubuntu) "MaaS on older releases need support for newer curtin images" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1551636
<cpaelzer> not to distract you from cloud-init :-)
 * smb was about to bring it up, too :)
<nacc_> shall we save that for the bugs section? :)
<cpaelzer> nacc_: ok, wait for bugs with that
<nacc_> #topic Xenial Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Xenial Development
<nacc_> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenialXerus/ReleaseSchedule
<smoser> cpaelzer, i'd not seen that.
<smoser> smb, cpaelzer we just need to sru newer curtin to trusty.
<nacc_> #subtopic Release Bugs
<nacc_> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-w-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<smb> smoser, though we kind of need that done yesterday
<nacc_> rbasak: any update on triage?
<rbasak> Not yet. I believe we have a triaging session planned for Thursday?
<jgrimm> correct
<nacc_> yeah, just saw that calendar invite
<jgrimm> anyone is free to ping me to join the hangout/session on thursday if so interested
<nacc_> #action rbasak (et al) catch up on triage (schedule for 3/3)
<meetingology> ACTION: rbasak (et al) catch up on triage (schedule for 3/3)
<nacc_> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<nacc_> any bugs to bring up (other than the one just discussed)
<nacc_> I guess we will have some after triage, maybe :)
<nacc_> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara)
<matsubara> nacc_, nothing to report.
<nacc_> matsubara: thanks!
<nacc_> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
<smb> From the kernel side there is bug 1550755 to mention. Luckily this is fixed by a set of apparmor patches which we were asked to apply anyway. Those should be included in 4.4.0-9.24 onwards.
<ubottu> bug 1550755 in linux (Ubuntu Xenial) "Reliably crash kernel 4.4.0.8-generic by reinstalling all packages and waiting for bind9" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1550755
<smb> Generally it would be good to keep an eye open for apparmor DENIED messages. isc
<smb> -dhcp-client got some updates, isc-dhcp-server maybe needs some (someone reported on the server-team ml that dhcp-server in Xenial does not work with apparmour enabled), and bind9 looks likely to need some updated rules (noticed /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_local_port_range nessages in the bug report about the crash).
<smb> Also, I observerd a critical issue with isc-dhcp-client (bug 1551351) since about last week. Could not yet debug it but it seems the client is stuck waiting on some futex and will not send renewal requests for its lease.
<ubottu> bug 1551351 in isc-dhcp (Ubuntu) "dhclient does not renew leases" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1551351
<smb> And last the request cpaelzer already mentioned. :)
<nacc_> which is bug 1551636 (for the logs)
<ubottu> bug 1551636 in curtin (Ubuntu Trusty) "MaaS on older releases need support for newer curtin images" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1551636
<nacc_> anything else from the kernel team?
<smoser> smb, i wonder if your apparmor is related to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ifupdown/+bug/1551415
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1551415 in ifupdown (Ubuntu) "systemctl stop networking hang / timeout" [Undecided,New]
<smb> smoser, I would need to look into that more detail
<nacc_> I think we can move on to the next topic, then
<nacc_> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
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<nacc_> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<nacc_> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<nacc_> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<nacc_> matsubara: I think you're up for next week
<matsubara> nacc_, sure.
<jgrimm> thanks nacc_
<nacc_> 2016-03-08 1600 UTC
<nacc_> thanks everyone!
<rbasak> Thank you!
<matsubara> thanks nacc_
<cpaelzer> thanks, cu
<nacc_> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Mar  1 16:18:52 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-03-01-16.00.moin.txt
<kickinz1> thanks nacc_
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-03-02
<Kilos> o/
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-03-03
<pitti> o/
<cyphermox> o/
<caribou> \o
<pitti> â¯startmeeting
<pitti> err, no
<pitti> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Mar  3 16:02:49 2016 UTC.  The chair is pitti. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<pitti> #topic lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: lightning round
<pitti> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity sil2100 robru cyphermox pitti tdaitx xnox chiluk)
<pitti> xnox barry pitti doko bdmurray cyphermox chiluk slangasek caribou tdaitx infinity robru sil2100
<xnox> bah
<xnox> i win
<ogasawara> lol
<xnox> Fixing d-i components:
<xnox> - sysconfig, preseed, zipl-installer, rootskel, partman-partitioning, partman-base, debian-installer
<xnox> Fixing bugs:
<xnox> - bsdmainutils, console-setup
<xnox> britney:
<xnox> - pitti merged components-missmatches fix, so things
<xnox> ..
<xnox> barry, there is still outstanding germinate merge?
<xnox> to review....
<xnox> also working a lot on getting curtin to do s390x/kvm stuff.
<barry> xnox: ack, i'll do those today
<xnox> MR in progress, but it's not booting things yet.
 * xnox is away during final beta milestone week.
 * xnox needs to find people who want to help out with s390x image testing....
<xnox> and done.
<barry> virtualenv 14.0.5+ds-2; python-pip 8.0.3-1; debian bug #815864 for fixing `python3.5 -m venv` (but i will have a refinement hopefully later today); syncpackage nose2 0.6.3-1; syncpackage keyrings.alt 1.1.1-1
<ubottu> Debian bug 815864 in python3.5 "python3-venv: unable to create a virtual environment" [Serious,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/815864
<barry> LP: #1508081; system-image 3.1 boards the train.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1508081 in ubuntu-system-settings (Ubuntu) "Fails to receive OTA updates" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1508081
<barry> deja-dup (LP: #1551989) hold on python2 for the desktop iso should be fixed once it gets promoted.  still left, system-config-printer's transitive dep on samba-libs :(
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1551989 in deja-dup (Ubuntu) "Demote deja-dup-backend-gvfs and install on demand" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1551989
<barry> ahem, performance reviews
<barry> --done--
<pitti> autopkgtest:
<pitti>  - Charm up the recently added github test request support
<pitti>  - Discuss nesting of QEMU images, which enables things like installer or open-iscsi testing
<pitti>  - Fix apparmor profile on s390x
<pitti>  - Give ~canonical-kernel-distro-team the ability to (re)start autopkgtests via CGI
<pitti>  - Investigate failures of lxc and lxd runners with latest lxc/lxd, fix applied upstream now (#1551960)
<pitti>  - Split queues for ubuntu/ppa/upstream tests to avoid one starving the other two
<pitti>  - Teach LXC runner about new lxc-copy (lxc-clone and lxc-start-ephemeral are deprecated)
<pitti>  - britney: Review/merge xnox' component checking branch; disable component check for PPAs
<pitti>  - Fix kernel config/installation on our s390x autopkgtest z/VMs
<pitti>  - Set up upstream systemd PR tests on s390x
<pitti> distro:
<pitti>  - resolvconf: fix upgrade failure (#1536335)
<pitti>  - systemd: More tolerant /etc/adjtime parsing (https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/2638)
<pitti>  - ubuntukylin-meta: Update from wily to xenial seeds
<pitti>  - udev: Migrate broken vmware interface names on upgrade (#1550539)
<pitti>  - udisks: bug fixing, new upstream release 2.1.7, package for D/U
<pitti>  - upstart: Fix breaks/depends cycle on upgrades (#1541914)
<pitti>  - upstart: Fix tests to fix FTBFS
<pitti>  - Investigate RTC access error on ppc64el (#1410604)
<pitti> misc:
<pitti>  - Debug arm64 initramfs build issue with Oliver
<pitti> END
<pitti> -ENODOKO
<pitti> bdmurray: please go on
<bdmurray> fixed issues with allow_bug_filing and errors_static_url in mojo spec
<bdmurray> testing allow_bug_filing off / on after mojo spec run
<bdmurray> mojo spec work (make e-t-daisy-app wait for e-t-cassandra)
<bdmurray> mojo spec work (fixing cassandra install due to charm changes)
<bdmurray> error tracker sprint preperations
<bdmurray> investigation into grep changes LP: #1547466
<bdmurray> investigation into release upgrader bug LP: #1550741
<bdmurray> uploaded popularity-contest bug fixes (LP: #1545515, LP: #1545517)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1547466 in grep (Ubuntu) "grep switches into binary mode while processing a text file" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1547466
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1550741 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "Upgrade failed - unauthenticated package (module-init-tools)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1550741
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1545515 in popularity-contest (Ubuntu) "xenial popularity-client submits compressed reports" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1545515
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1545517 in popularity-contest (Ubuntu) "xenial popularity-client regards successful popcon.ubuntu.com submissions as failures" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1545517
<bdmurray> reported popularity-contest cron.daily typo to debian
<bdmurray> â done
<cyphermox> MIR:
<cyphermox> - review s390-zfcp (bug LP: #1552218)
<cyphermox> trusty:
<cyphermox> - multipath-tools LVM & NVMe SRUs (bug LP: #1551828)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1552218 in s390-zfcp (Ubuntu) "[MIR] s390-zfcp" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1552218
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1551828 in multipath-tools (Ubuntu Trusty) "kpartx causes kernel oops when NVMe devices is not in blacklist" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1551828
<cyphermox> xenial:
<cyphermox> - NM update FFE and testing
<cyphermox> - add mokutil to live seed
<cyphermox> - blacklist NVMe for multipath
<cyphermox>  - d-i iscsi initiator name (bug LP: #1540995)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1540995 in partman-iscsi (Ubuntu Trusty) "iSCSI volumes are not discovered during ubuntu 14.04.04 installation (Shinner)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1540995
<cyphermox> - debootstrap InRelease file support
<cyphermox> - debootstrap inrelease support (bug LP: #1485511)
<cyphermox> - debug isc-dhcp not renewing leases w/ bind9.10 (bug LP: #1551351)
<cyphermox> - debugging network-manager DNS update
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1485511 in debootstrap (Ubuntu) "ISST-KVM:CTE:R3-0:raing12: Base system install fails with "Debootstrap Error :Invalid Release signature (key id 40976EAF437D05B5) " using Ubuntu 15.10 latest daily build (20150805)" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1485511
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1551351 in isc-dhcp (Ubuntu Xenial) "dhclient does not renew leases" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1551351
<cyphermox>  - discussing multipath-tools merge from Debian w/ rharper
<cyphermox> - fix mokutil files disappearing after install
<cyphermox> - fix ubiquity crash when non-free is disabled
<cyphermox> - grub-installer fix for PReP installs on RAID devices (bug LP: #1550448)
<cyphermox> - partman-iscsi intiatorName support
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1550448 in grub-installer (Ubuntu Trusty) "[PowerVM] Ubuntu 16.04 does not install bootloader on multiple PReP partitions in Software RAID1 configuration" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1550448
<cyphermox>  - testing LVM on multipath
<cyphermox> - testing LVM preseeding
<cyphermox> Â±other stuff:
<cyphermox> - Secure Boot discussion
<cyphermox> - TPM setup
<cyphermox> - a very long but productive DMB meeting
<cyphermox>  - packaging tpm2-tools & tpm2-tss
<cyphermox> - unbreaking open-iscsi autopkgtests
<cyphermox> - upstreaming debootstrap inrelease support
<cyphermox> - upstreaming partman-iscsi/open-iscsi initiatorName fixes
<cyphermox> (done!)
<pitti> cyphermox: oh, wer're going to update NM again?
<cyphermox> hopefully.
<pitti> cyphermox: to 1.0.10, or something majojr?
<cyphermox> 1.2, if it lands early enough
<chiluk> my turn?
<pitti> ambitious :)
<pitti> chiluk: please
<chiluk> Bug 1535349. Still needs sponsorship for coreutils.
<chiluk> A user is hitting similar issues to Bug 1012629 with preseeds, and I'm working through it.
<ubottu> bug 1535349 in coreutils (Ubuntu Trusty) "`df /dev/sda1` no longer reports information for /dev/sda1" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1535349
<ubottu> bug 1012629 in grub-installer (Ubuntu Precise) "grub-installer ignores "bootdev" setting in preseed file" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1012629
<chiluk> done
<caribou> no slangasek I suppose
<caribou>  Short week due to two swap days
<caribou>  Bugfix :
<caribou>  - Investigate kernel crash dump on compute node :
<caribou>    Most probably caused by conntrack dkms module. Need to identify source
<caribou>    in order to rebuild the module.
<caribou>  - multipath patch failure on reconnect
<caribou>    No config file used & default path_checker may be wrong
<caribou>  Development work:
<caribou>  - Sponsoring Network-Manager SRU for LP: #1515446 on wily
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1515446 in network-manager (Ubuntu Wily) "network file systems in FSTAB no longer mount at boot with NetworkManager" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1515446
<caribou>  â Done
<cyphermox> chiluk: I can look at your grub-installer and coreutils fixes
<chiluk> cyphermox please look at the coreutils fix first.
<cyphermox> or maybe that has already been done ;)
<chiluk> arges has taken a few stabs at it..
<chiluk> i'm checking to see where the upload is.
<chiluk> cyphermox, yeah coreutils still needs to be uploaded.. and then sru approved.
<cyphermox> ok
<cyphermox> tdaitx: ?
<chiluk> cyphermox fyi... It's essentially a backport of the df from vivid..
<chiluk> since vivid seems to be working a bit more acceptably.
<robru> no tdaitx or infinity?
<pitti> tdaitx just sent his report on teh ML
<pitti> electricity troubles
<robru> lp:bileto
<robru> - fixed bug where new comment text box would clear during Ajax update
<robru> - updated from angular 1.3 to angular 1.5 (brings performance & bug fixes
<robru> Ephemeral PPA work:
<robru> - parallelized bzr branching and merging with asyncio coroutines, resulting in a 2x speedup
<robru> - lots of little fixes and progress, will probably have working builds soon
<robru> (done)
<pitti> no sil2100 either
<pitti> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<chiluk> thanks cyphermox
<pitti> ogasawara: anything from you in particular?
<ogasawara> pitti: nope, thanks
<bdmurray> Is there somebody who could look at bug 1547466?
<ubottu> bug 1547466 in grep (Ubuntu) "grep switches into binary mode while processing a text file" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1547466
<cyphermox> that rings a bell
 * tdaitx is having eletricty troubles at home and suffering from really bad wifi outside of it
<pitti> I thought that was an intended change
<bdmurray> Based on upstream it is an intended change but it seems to be affecting a lot of people negatively and some builds.
<pitti> we've been wanting to change our buildds to default to C.UTF-8, maybe that's just the final nail in the coffin
<barry> pitti: +1
<cyphermox> so, notabug, fix the users?
<xnox> pitti, +1
<pitti> well, not sure
<xnox> infinity would be cautious.
<pitti> we could revert the change for xenial
<xnox> it would explode on upgrades, yes.
<cyphermox> well, really "fix the users when they try to output UTF or binary data to a non-UTF terminal"
<pitti> but it's more complicated than just making grep -a the default
<cyphermox> pitti: definitely
<pitti> as grep has had a binary detection mode all the time
<pitti> it just got a bit stricter now apparently
<xnox> cyphermox, we default to UTF terminal, apart from our buildds.
<pitti> cyphermox: s/terminal/locale/
<cyphermox> xnox: yes
<pitti> this affects "grep something > outputfile"
<pitti> (i. e. not strictly bound to terminals)
<cyphermox> bah
<pitti> I suppose grep checks LC_CTYPE, and if it sees an undecodable character it switches to binary mode
<pitti> but no idea what it used before
<bdmurray> pitti: you seem to understand the issue a fair bit, could you look into it more?
<pitti> well, what do we *want* to do about it?
<pitti> finally fix our buildds? revert the change?
<pitti> but if we revert it, we'll be stuck with it for"ever"
<xnox> we do want to fix our buildds regardless.
<cyphermox> fix the buildds, I would think
<xnox> on the off-hand email from steve, he did say given "grep" issue, we should push to change buildds to utf.
<xnox> but e.g. infinity is ill at the moment. So, cjwatson - would you fix our buildds to run with C.UTF-8 by default?
 * xnox wonders if we should have done so for the archive rebuild running now - to see how bad the fallout from that is.
<xnox> vs current grep fallout.
<pitti> xnox: zero, I hope -- or our stuff would be broken on UTF-8 locales which are being used on pretty much every real system out there
<cjwatson> Yeah, it sounds like we should perhaps JFDI
<pitti> well, there might be some debian test suites which currently rely on C
<pitti> so "zero" is probably too optimistic
<xnox> pitti, sure, the glibc test-suite will catch or some such.
<xnox> cjwatson, shall i file a bug report against... launchpad? lp-buildd?
 * xnox bets there is one already.
<cjwatson> launchpad-buildd.  we have a deployment planned soon anway
<cjwatson> *anyway
<pitti> so until that happens, should we revert the grep behavour in the meantime?
<pitti> that'll probably require some bisecting to find out which particular commit changed it (and how exactly)
<pitti> if we want to do this, I can look into it
<cjwatson> it shouldn't take us long to deploy new buildd code, fwiw
<xnox> please ack/approve https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad-buildd/+bug/1552791
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1552791 in launchpad-buildd "please set default locale to C.UTF-8" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<cjwatson> probably today/tomorrow
<cjwatson> ack/approve> meaningless :)
<cyphermox> do we cyurrently have lots of builds failing because grep?
<pitti> oh, ok -- then let's not bother
<cyphermox> right
<xnox> with like "affects me", "me too" comments, +1, like, heart - etc.
<pitti> ok, anything else?
<bdmurray> Nope
<pitti> then, thanks everyone!
<pitti> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Mar  3 16:34:14 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-03-03-16.02.moin.txt
<caribou> pitti: thanks!
<barry> thanks!
<cyphermox> thanks!
<belkinsa> #startmeeting CC Check-in Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Mar  3 17:00:05 2016 UTC.  The chair is belkinsa. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | CC Check-in Meeting | Current topic:
<belkinsa> Who is all for the Check-in Meeting for the Doc Team and QA Team?
<pleia2> doc team o/
<pmatulis> \o
<dsmythies> I'm here.
<belkinsa> Doc Team 17:00UTC - QA Team 17:30UTC
<belkinsa> Any CC members?  QA Team members?
<GunnarHj> o/
<belkinsa> Alright, let's get started.
<belkinsa> Doc Team, what do you have to say about what you have done for this cycle?
<mhall119> hello everyone
<mhall119> o/
<belkinsa> #chair mhall119
<meetingology> Current chairs: belkinsa mhall119
<dsmythies> As mentioned in the last couple of meetings, for the serverguide we lack subject matter expert input. The serverguide struggles to be current.
<hggdh> belkinsa: o/
<dsmythies> For the 16.04 cycle, the issue is compounded by the significant changes introduced by the change to systemd.
<belkinsa> #chair hggdh
<meetingology> Current chairs: belkinsa hggdh mhall119
<dsmythies> Recall that the serverguide is only published for LTS cycles, and server people tend to only run LTS editions. I.E. we are just discovering systemd stuff now.
<knome> i'm on/off, we have a xubuntu meeting at the same time
<mhall119> dsmythies: who have you had help you with this in the past?
<pleia2> knome and I have spent a ridiculous amount of time dealing with the fact that the wiki at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ was first being spammed, and now has been locked down for 2 months
<pleia2> with it locked down, admins have to take wiki format diffs from community members on the mailing list to make changes to pages, so much work :(
<mhall119> pleia2: but that is unlocked again now, correct?
<pleia2> mhall119: nope, locked up again
<mhall119> was it getting spammed again?
<pleia2> I don't know
<mhall119> when was it locked again?
<pleia2> I don't know that either
<belkinsa> And is there some DoS attack on it because of the spam like wiki.ubuntu.com or do you not know?
<pmatulis> afaik, it never got unlocked
<pleia2> I told people to try and edit it after it worked for you, they couldn't knome replied to the ticket and they said it's locked
<belkinsa> I see.
<pleia2> pmatulis: it was for a few minutes at least :)
<pmatulis> pleia2: are you sure?
<knome> we confirmed it was unlocked
<pleia2> pmatulis: yes, I worked with mhall119 on it, he could edit it
<GunnarHj> pleia2: Glad to hear that you are on it, anyhow. It's utterly important that it soon can be edited by 'normal' people.
<pmatulis> pleia2: but isn't he on some special group?
<pleia2> GunnarHj: I don't have time to be "on it", this is really frustrating
<pleia2> pmatulis: nope, that's why he was good to test it
<pmatulis> ok, weird then
<pmatulis> dunno how it can be unlocked for a day and then locked again
<pleia2> clearly someone in IS flipped it back and didn't tell us
<pleia2> but I have no idea when/why
<hggdh> it is locked for me, at leas
<hggdh> least*
<mhall119> I will follow up with IS again and see what's going on
<pmatulis> or some auto-lock was put into effect
<pleia2> mhall119: thanks, it's really a problem
<mhall119> pleia2: understood, I thought we had resolved it, but evidently that was fleeting
<belkinsa> #action mhall119 Follow up with IS about community help wiki lock down
<meetingology> ACTION: mhall119 Follow up with IS about community help wiki lock down
<pmatulis> it seems appropriate to mention that wiki.ubuntu.com also has problems. lots of people are getting internal server errors. quite bad all around i would say
<mhall119> pmatulis: for a few days now I think, IIRC someone in IS was looking into it already but I will check on that too
<belkinsa> Yes, I'm aware of that.  I think we all are.
<belkinsa> #action mhall119 Follow up with IS about community wiki lock down
<meetingology> ACTION: mhall119 Follow up with IS about community wiki lock down
<GunnarHj> As regards the desktop docs, there isn't much to say, since nothing has been done this cycle. Even if the Unity desktop hasn't changed much lately, some parts of the 16.04 desktop docs will be dated.
<mhall119> need a different action belkinsa :)
<pleia2> yeah, do it twice, just to be sure :)
<hggdh> IS stated most internal errors are a consequence of the scripts they run to erase/block spam, and that they were working on getting these scripts to run faster
<mhall119> pleia2: it's funny because it's true
<belkinsa> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: ACTION
<mhall119> TIL, meetingology has an #undo command
<belkinsa> mhall119, you can add it since i don't know any better.
<belkinsa> mhall119, I did undo it.
<mhall119> #action mhall119 Follow up with IS about wiki.ubuntu.com 500 errors
<meetingology> ACTION: mhall119 Follow up with IS about wiki.ubuntu.com 500 errors
<belkinsa> GunnarHj, is it because there is no one working on the docs or what?
<pleia2> GunnarHj: was there a call for people to review the desktop docs in anticipation of updating them? I think I remember one, but I might have dreamt it
<GunnarHj> belkinsa: Yes.
<belkinsa> I see.
<pmatulis> all doc projects seem to be in a bad funk these days. it's really difficult
<pleia2> ah, looks like there was for server guide, but not desktop
<mhall119> GunnarHj: do we have a way to listing what is out of date?
<GunnarHj> pleia2: pmatulis posted a call for the server guide, but no such has been posted for desktop.
<belkinsa> Maybe a call for the Desktop Docs is needed?
 * pleia2 nods
<dsmythies> mhall119: Serverguide help is spuratic at best. pmatulis puts out requests for help on the serverteam email list.
<GunnarHj> mhall119: No easy way, I'm afraid. Read the docs...
<pleia2> belkinsa: first we need someone to do it :)
<belkinsa> Right, duh.
<pleia2> also make sure all the contribution docs are up to date, so we don't have people trying to help and failing
<pleia2> so a lot of work, very few (any?) people
<mhall119> GunnarHj: can the docs team identify and tag out of date docs for other contributors to work on, or would that be about as much work as just updating them yourselves?
<dsmythies> For my part of it, I have been having troubles to get a working 16.04 system. I'm bogged down with that, and yet to move on to looking at docs with the new systems.
<pmatulis> for serverguide, i maintain a table of stuff that is most pressing
<mhall119> pmatulis: that would be a good thing to point new contributors too (especially in a call for help)
<dsmythies> pmatulis: samba is, suddenly, obsolete. This change was since the start of 16.04.
<mhall119> having a list to pick from is less daunting than having to find something first
<pmatulis> mhall119: that's been done in my call for help :)
<mhall119> \o/
<pleia2> and I included the call for help in the ubuntu weekly newsletter
<mhall119> ok, so do we need an action item for desktop guide call for help?
<pmatulis> pleia2: ty for that
<GunnarHj> Identifying out of date docs if of course easier than also fixing it, but it would still take quite some time. I fear that we simply don't have the sufficient resources to do it.
 * pmatulis hugs pleia2
 * pleia2 hugs pmatulis
<mhall119> GunnarHj: understood, but the investment might bring in new contributors to boost your resource in the future
<pmatulis> dsmythies: yeah, will proll be dropping samba, sadly
<mhall119> GunnarHj: even if it's not a complete list, if you can put together 10 or 20 "most wanted" pages that need updates
<GunnarHj> mhall119: Indeed. And a call for help should be posted.
<dsmythies> pmatulis: You can not drop samba, it is too important. The root issue is that we need subject matter expert input and we don't get it.
<mhall119> who would like to volunteer to put out a call for help on desktop guide docs?
<mhall119> dsmythies: experts on samba specifically, or server stuff in general?
<pmatulis> dsmythies: actually, out of date docs are worse than no docs
<GunnarHj> mhall119: I can scream for help re desktop.
<pmatulis> and having samba3 in Xenial is reaally out of date
<mhall119> thanks GunnarHj
<dsmythies> we need subject matter expert inout for every section of the serverguide. I do not understand why doc contribution is not manditory for canonical employees.
<mhall119> #action GunnarHj to call for help on desktop docs
<meetingology> ACTION: GunnarHj to call for help on desktop docs
<mhall119> dsmythies: who was the last SME you had helping with those docs?
<dsmythies> what is SME
<mhall119> subject matter expert
<dsmythies> Srge Hallyen did a huge section on virtualisation.
<pmatulis> dsmythies: interesting question. i try to push in that direction, in my own way
<pmatulis> dsmythies: yes, he does LXC. that reminds me, we need a huge section on LXD now ;)
<mhall119> stgraber might be able to help with that too
<hggdh> LXC/D and libvirt
<mhall119> dsmythies: have you asked either of them to help with the server docs?
<pmatulis> i know that they would like to help, but they're overloaded with other stuff
<dsmythies> I told Serge a few times how very grateful we were for his conrtibution. Otherwise I have no idea who to ask.
<pmatulis> i mentioned canonical doing upstream LXD docs. that may happen, but not in the near future. this can help, but not by much in the grand scheme
<mhall119> dsmythies: I'd recommend asking stgraber for help documenting LXD, he might even have some stuff already written than just needs to be converted to wiki markup
<knome> it would totally help if there was some general leadership for docs from canoncial
<knome> i don't mean there needs to be one person doing that only, but some sort of point-of-contact who could dedicate a few hours per week for it
<pmatulis> knome: what sort of leadership do you mean. that only takes a few hours per week?
<mhall119> knome: what can someone from Canonical do that others can't? Is there some access or information that only we have?
<dsmythies> mhall119: I don't know who stgraber is. pmatulis: can you take this?
<pmatulis> like i said, i've already talked to those guys
<mhall119> dsmythies: he's the tech lead on LXD, he's written several blog posts about it too
<knome> mhall119, no information, but it would be helpful to see somebody overlooking it all
<knome> currently, i don't feel a strong leadership for the whole of the docs team
<knome> decisions are hard to make and lately it has looked like it's impossible
<knome> nobody is willing to take the leadership responsility or doesn't have the time for it
<mhall119> knome: right, I understand the need for leadership, but in my mind that could be somebody from the community as much as somebody from canonical
<knome> +bi
<dsmythies> knome: I agree, re-leadership.
<knome> i can be somebody from the community, but since nobody has stepped up...
<mhall119> understood
<belkinsa> Maybe we need one from Canonical and one from the Community?
<knome> of course ubuntu/canonical can just ignore documentation (because who reads any?!) but i don't agree it's a good idea
<pmatulis> it would be great if we could have specifics on what your want such leadership to do. afaics, it's more we need a few persons to motivate people to help. without contributors there's nothing to manage/lead
<belkinsa> It's nearing 17:30, but it seems that we don't have anyone from the QA team yet.
<mhall119> ok, this sounds like something where the community team in canonical should get involved, to advocate for employees to contribute more to docs, can somebody send an email us requesting that? I'll advocate for it in our next team call
<knome> pmatulis, from my point of view, we need somebody who has enough time and vision to lead the team and guide it into the right direction
<dsmythies> for serverguide, I can e-mail.
<knome> i'm not talking even about the serverguide... i'm talking about the whole team
<pleia2> at the very least, someone who can nudge contributors to do something, hannie over in the ubuntu-manual team has quite an active crew and all she does is ask
<knome> one of the things the leader from canonical could do is talk with other people on canonical on docs we need
<mhall119> knome: that's something the community team can do
<dsmythies> belkinsa: would e-mail go to that address on your reminder e-mail ( community-council@lists.ubuntu.com ) ?
<knome> and maybe some of the issues and disagreements that have led the team not being able to make decisions or take action could be resolved with the help from the community team
<knome> for example: what do we do in general with the community wiki?
<belkinsa> dsmythies, um, yes.
<pleia2> the wiki threads always get away from us
<knome> (some want it shut down, some want to keep it as is, some want to change the platform...)
<mhall119> dsmythies: that goes to the CC, but not to the community team in canonical
<pleia2> knome: nods
<knome> and this is not the only issue the team has trouble with
<mhall119> knome: can you email the community team asking for us to drum up some docs help from inside the company?
<pleia2> or I can
<GunnarHj> knome: What, except for different opinions on the wiki, do we have *trouble* with?
<pmatulis> it seems the community is the best entity to decide what to do with the community wiki
<pleia2> GunnarHj: different opinions, no one to decide
<knome> pleia2, i'll help you get that done
<pleia2> knome: ok, we'll etherpad later
<knome> GunnarHj, many alternatives have been proposed, but nothing has happened
<knome> clearly, the situation can't go on like it does now
<mhall119> #action pleia2 and knome to request help from the Canonical Community Team in recruiting documentation help from inside Canonical
<meetingology> ACTION: pleia2 and knome to request help from the Canonical Community Team in recruiting documentation help from inside Canonical
<knome> but there is always somebody who says we can't move on either, because they don't like the direction somebody is proposing (and willing to take action on)
<pmatulis> knome: that's due to a lack of interest from the community. canonical cannot force the community to "be interested"
<knome> pmatulis, of course not, but if the community isn't "interested", why are all attempts to make the wiki work blocked?
<mhall119> knome: pleia2: if the docs team contributors could recommend a course of action on the wiki software, that would certainly help
<knome> mhall119, they can't.
<knome> mhall119, that's one of the problems we need external help from
<knome> (and when i say they, i mean "us")
<mhall119> knome: can't make a recommendation? or can't agree on one?
<pleia2> can't agree on one
<mhall119> ok
<pleia2> and we need input from IS too
<knome> can't agree on one, even if specific solutions are proposed and volunteers are ready to take that action
<pleia2> we sent them recommendations on how to fix spam, and haven't heard anything
<mhall119> pleia2: in an RT?
<pmatulis> knome: that's true. i proposed to change the format of the serverguide from xml to markdown but i got shouted down. everyone has a dissenting opinion, which just lowers any chance of people getting motivated
<pleia2> mhall119: yep, same RT I've shared many times
<mhall119> ack, I'll add that to my previous action to see why the wiki is locked down again
<knome> pmatulis, this is exactly the problem; even if you volunteered to do the whole conversion from xml to markdown, there is always somebody that disagrees loudly and then things stall.
<knome> pmatulis, which is why i'm seeking for leadership to the team
<pleia2> knome: exactly
<knome> (and since that can't be found from inside the team, i'm pointing my finger to canonical)
<pmatulis> knome: but then we run the risk of being "managed by canonical" and that's another can of worms. but sure, it's worth a try
<knome> i'm not saying the team should be canonical-driven in the sense that they tell us what we need to do
<knome> but since the team clearly can't make any decisions or get things rolling, it would help to have somebody from the outside working with us
<pleia2> the fact is, no one is volunteering, so I think we need someone who is paid to help nudge us along
<pmatulis> i've always felt that there should be a Canonical community guy (whatever they're called) in charge of documentation
<pleia2> or else we won't have 16.04 docs
<mhall119> how is the docs team governed currently? Is there an admin team or council or something?
<hggdh> pmatulis: +1
<pleia2> mhall119: nothing
<pleia2> there is no leader, the CC owns the team
<knome> the other issue with not having clear leadership is that there are leaders for subteams like the serverguide, desktop docs, community wiki and whatever
<mhall119> perhaps that's somethig to consider putting in place, to make decision making easer and supported
<hggdh> the thing here is because nobody can agree on a specific action, no action is taken. End result is stagnation
<belkinsa> Maybe a board of leaders could help the team.  Maybe three from each sub-team, wiki, sever, and wiki.
<knome> and in some wicked way it always feels like the people who aren't even working with X always know what is best for X
<knome> (without pointing fingers at anybody)
<pleia2> the CC owns the team because individuals who did in the past drifted off and then we got blocked on releases, but no one has been able/willing to volunteer to take their place
<knome> belkinsa, please, no
<knome> belkinsa, we don't need bureucracy
<pleia2> belkinsa: plus, there are no volunteers for one leader, let alone a board :)
<hggdh> sowe need clear directions.
<belkinsa> Alright.
<hggdh> this means *one* leader
<knome> one leader that has a vision of the big picture, yes
<mhall119> pleia2: what do you think about creating a docs-council (or whatever name) to be the decision-making body for the docs team?
<knome> :|
<hggdh> a rose any anoy other name...
<pleia2> mhall119: not a fan, and I doubt we could staff it
<knome> mhall119, how does a council help when the same people who would be in it can't decide on the things now?
<hggdh> *any other
<pleia2> if we had volunteers we would have self organized a leadership team already
 * hggdh has to *really* pay attention to mind & fingers coordination
<mhall119> knome: smaller number of people
<pleia2> but the problem is there are a lot of people with opinions and none to do work
<knome> mhall119, the active people *are* a small number of people already
<pleia2> yeah, I think all the active people are here right now
<knome> a clear direction from "above" would likely attract more contributors too
<pmatulis> hopefully this will mean consolidating our efforts. the help wiki, the ubuntu manual, and the actual documentation dilutes the precious resources we have
<mhall119> knome: and are those the same people who don't agree on how to proceed?
<knome> mhall119, yes.
<mhall119> ok
<pleia2> we can start with our email
<mhall119> alright, so I can offer help from the community team in finding contributors inside of Canonical, but without anybody volunteering to take a leadership role I'm not sure how we're going to solve any long-term planning issues
<pleia2> sometimes it just takes some energy for leaders to emerge, we can revisit in 6 months
<dsmythies> pmatulis: Your serverguide example was unfair. You should tell the whole story: You didn't have an overall project plan with viable timeline, nor had you thought through the translations workflow. It wasn't shotdown as much as lets make a realistic plan.
<knome> dsmythies, are you working with the serverguide actively?
<pmatulis> dsmythies: let's say that i didn't get any positive feedback then
<dsmythies> Knome: I am stuck trying to get a 16.04 server working. But yes, then I will be.
<pmatulis> dsmythies: i'm curious what issues you are having installing 16.04
<knome> dsmythies, ok, did you ask for the details you are asking now when pmatulis suggested this?
<mhall119> ok, we have an action for pleia2 and knome already to contact the CCT, are there any other action items we can take from this discussion?
<dsmythies> Yes, it fizzled, as far as I recall.
<mhall119> any other actions that you can think of can be brought to the CC over email
<dsmythies> pmatulis: I'll conintue with you over on ubuntu-docs channel.
<mhall119> we've run way over time for this part of the meeting, flocculant are you here for the QA team?
<pmatulis> mhall119: propose opening a community manager position for documentation?
<belkinsa> mhall119, thank you.
<dsmythies> Thanks all.
<flocculant> mhall119: sorry - too late now
<GunnarHj> Thanks
<belkinsa> Not a problem.
<mhall119> pmatulis: you mean a new employee?
<pmatulis> mhall119: yep
<mhall119> flocculant: would it better to reschedule the QA team's checkin?
<mhall119> pmatulis: that's not my call, it would have to be approved by higher-ups
<flocculant> mhall119: ask Nick
<mhall119> he doesn't hire people either :)
<wxl> mhall119: yeah balloons is head of the show. i can represent, but i usually don't get in until about now.
<hggdh> I think we do not have an option, time is almost up
<mhall119> oh, ask him about the meeting, I get you now
<mhall119> balloons: do you want to reschedule so the QA team gets more time?
<belkinsa> Oh!  I was asked by tsimonq2 to give news about a QA API, but balloons would know more.
<flocculant> mhall119: more than 6 minutes - that'd be good :)
<belkinsa> Clock's ticking.  flocculant, do you have any updates?
<mhall119> ok, I will tack it on to the end of the calendar schedule, so it'll be in June, is that okay?
<flocculant> belkinsa: what?
<belkinsa> Nevermind.
<wxl> mhall119: *I* would like it to be starting about now. i don't know what balloons thinks, though, and he's the most important one.
<mhall119> wxl: sure, if you have an update or a topic, go ahead and start
 * mhall119 hopes nobody needs this channel in the next hour, if so we can move it to #ubuntu-quality
<belkinsa> #topic QA Team Check-In
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | CC Check-in Meeting | Current topic: QA Team Check-In
<wxl> mhall119: no, i meant at 1800 UTC
<wxl> mhall119: june works for me.
<mhall119> wxl: oh, sorry, we're always at the same day and time
<mhall119> but DST might change when it happens in your local time :)
<wxl> yeah ok :)
<wxl> so the only thing i can really comment on is that through GCI we got some changes to the ISO tracker
<mhall119> #action Reschedule QA team checkin to June 17th
<meetingology> ACTION: Reschedule QA team checkin to June 17th
<wxl> that and tsimonq2 has been working on an API for the tracker
<mhall119> wxl: what does the API do?
<wxl> with the ultimate goal of being able to expose better data on what sort of stuff has been going on
<wxl> mhall119: well, originally, he was just going to learn the php API but got annoyed with it and its lack of documentation, so he went python and created a sphinx autodoc
<wxl> mhall119: so now we have, IMHO, an easier to use API, with better documentation
<mhall119> win-win
<wxl> yep yep
<wxl> and there will be more improvements to come as a result of that
<wxl> i know flocculant has been working on some further improvements to the tracker as well
<wxl> beyond that, at least from the guise of lubuntu, we're moving well on our way to the release of 16.04. working on testing some upstream bug fixes to LXDE
<mhall119> alright, unless there is anything else that needs to be discussed right now, let's wrap this meeting up and work on those action items
<wxl> meanwhile, we just got the lxqt metapackage in the repos for xenial, so we can really start testing it for release in 16.10 in earnest
 * mhall119 is looking forward to seeing lxqt evolve
 * wxl is too!
<wxl> one other thing i'll mention and then i've exhausted myself :)
<wxl> we have had some discussion about the milestone checklist tracking for those milestone's ubuntu's not been involved in
<wxl> it's been the case that flexiondotorg, flocculant, and myself have invariably been the people doing it
<wxl> so we've tried to do some work to encourage others
<hggdh> thank you
<wxl> but also has some discussion about letting non-release team folks do it. i have dedicated folks within our qa team that can easily herd cats/write announcements, so it's a relief that no one's opposed to that
<mhall119> wxl: sounds good
<wxl> the benefit is that we have more people trained and those of us that usually do it will be less irritated XD
<mhall119> win-win again :)
<wxl> yuup
<mhall119> alright, thanks everyone for the great meeting, sorry to the QA team for having to reschedule you
<mhall119> as always, you can contact the CC by email anytime
<wxl> thanks for the check in mhall119, belkinsa, hggdh and the rest of the cc :)
<mhall119> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Mar  3 18:06:38 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-03-03-17.00.moin.txt
<balloons> i'm here
<balloons> and apparently it was last hour.. good job on timing my lunch
<mhall119> balloons: :)
<mhall119> balloons: QA team checkin is going to be re-scheduled
<mhall119> the docs team checkin ran long
<balloons> I see in the scrollback :-)
<knome> balloons, scheduling your lunch at the same time as the only other scheduled thing during the day is the best
 * mhall119 is just sitting here eating lunch in front of the laptop
<Kilos> hi mhall119
<Kilos> and everyone else
<mhall119> hi Kilos
<balloons> knome, yea, big fail. I'm usually never away from my keyboard anyway, but I had visitors today
<balloons> I'm sorry, but it seems it worked out since things ran over anyway
<dipraw> hello everyone!
<Kilos> hi dipraw
<dipraw> how u doing? kilos
<dipraw> i am a friend of pavlushka
<Kilos> im good ty dipraw and you'
<dipraw> um doing great! may i know from which country you are, kilos??
<dipraw> actually i am new here that's why i'm a little bit curious
<marcoceppi> we'll start in just a min
<Kilos> south africa dipraw
<marcoceppi> #startmeeting 2000 UTC Ubuntu Membership Board
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Mar  3 20:01:29 2016 UTC.  The chair is marcoceppi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 2000 UTC Ubuntu Membership Board Meeting | Current topic:
<marcoceppi> Hello and welcome to the Ubuntu Membership Review Board for the 2000 UTC meeting for March 3, 2016.
<marcoceppi> The wiki page for the Review Board is available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards
<marcoceppi> We will attempt to get through all of the applicants that have added themselves to that list before today's meeting. If we are unable to make it through the entire list due to time constraints, then at the next meeting we will pick up where we left off.
<marcoceppi> The format for the meeting is as follows: We will go through the list of applicants one by one, by date of application (FIFO).
<marcoceppi> Each applicant should introduce themselves (1-5 sentences) and provide links to their Ubuntu Wiki page. After the introduction the members of the Membership Review Board will review the pages and, if needed, ask the applicant further questions.
<marcoceppi> During this time it is encouraged for other members of the community to show their support for the applicant. Do not be alarmed if the members of the Membership Review Board are quiet during this time; they are most likely reading wiki/launchpad/forum/other pages and deciding how they are going to vote.
<marcoceppi> When the board is ready to vote, they will publicly vote in the channel with either +1, 0, or -1 (for membership, abstain, and against membership, respectively). If the sum of those numbers amounts to at least +1, then the applicant is now an official Ubuntu member! (feel free congratulate them!)
<marcoceppi> #votesrequired 4
<meetingology> votes now need 4 to be passed
<marcoceppi> #voters cyphermox Pendulum jared freeflying popey rickspencer3 marcoceppi Destine iulian IdleOne hggdh cwayne belkinsa PabloRubianes s-fox Kilos toddy belkinsa elacheche_anis hggdh PabloRubianes PabloRubianes wxl
<meetingology> Warning: Nick not in channel: Pendulum
<meetingology> Warning: Nick not in channel: jared
<meetingology> Warning: Nick not in channel: rickspencer3
<meetingology> Warning: Nick not in channel: Destine
<meetingology> Warning: Nick not in channel: iulian
<meetingology> Warning: Nick not in channel: IdleOne
<meetingology> Warning: Nick not in channel: cwayne
<meetingology> Warning: Nick not in channel: s-fox
<meetingology> Current voters: Destine IdleOne Kilos PabloRubianes Pendulum belkinsa cwayne cyphermox elacheche_anis freeflying hggdh iulian jared marcoceppi popey rickspencer3 s-fox toddy wxl
<marcoceppi> Now, without any further ado, lets get started with the first applicant...
 * belkinsa drum rolls
<marcoceppi> #topic pavlushka
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 2000 UTC Ubuntu Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: pavlushka
<pavlushka> I am here
<pavlushka> Hellow every1
<elacheche_anis> Hey pavlushka
<belkinsa> o/ pavlushka
<Kilos> hi pavlushka
<marcoceppi> pavlushka: please introduce yourself and provide a link to your entry
<toddy> hi pavlushka
<pavlushka> I am S. M. Pavel Sayekat
<pavlushka> I am a math graduate & ubuntu lover
<pavlushka> my launchpad ID is https://launchpad.net/~pavelsayekat
<pavlushka> I am a home ubuntu user and involved in family business.
<wxl> pavlushka: sorry to interrupt, but your family business uses ubuntu?
<pavlushka> I am the technical hand, so yes.
<dipraw> hi i am Rajin Mustafa Dipraw
<wxl> pavlushka: oh excellent! what's your business, and how do you use ubuntu?
<wxl> hi and welcome dipraw
<dipraw> i am a ubuntu user
<dipraw> thanx wxl
<pavlushka> Its actually basic uses, topic research, mail handling.
<dipraw> my launchpad ID is https://launchpad.net/~dipraw493
<dipraw> i am also a home ubuntu user
<wxl> pavlushka: well, that's one thing ubuntu's good atâ every day use
<marcoceppi> dipraw: excellent, we're currently in process of something, are you here to show support for the applicant?
<marcoceppi> pavlushka: is there anything else you'd like to add?
<pavlushka> Yep, but I m trying/thinking to develop some software that would make the business go easier.
<pavlushka> And yes
<pavlushka> I do
<pavlushka> as you can check me in launchpad, I try some tralnslations for BN
<pavlushka> I was a translator fo Nielsen
<toddy> pavlushka: Do you have contact to the Ubuntu Community? Do you have a Loco in your country?
<pavlushka> but a fact that I did all this with a messy internet but now I have a fixed connection
<pavlushka> yes I do
<toddy> pavlushka: which kind of contacts are this?
<pavlushka> ubuntu-bd mailing list thread.
<pavlushka> Oh I forget to mention my WIKI page
<pavlushka> my wiki page is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/pavelsayekat
<toddy> on the list is not very much traffic. Is there more acticity anywhere in the country?: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-bd/
<pavlushka> not actually
<pavlushka> but I work my way out, helping others
<wxl> do you have any documention covering all the people you've helped and how? or testimonials from them about you?
<pavlushka> not really, but I have one user here with me.
<pavlushka> I like to add that and when I help others fixing their PC, I try to convince them to dualboot ubuntu
<marcoceppi> Are there any questions for pavlushka from the board?
<dipraw> i am here with pavlushka
<marcoceppi> hello dipraw thank you for joining us!
<belkinsa> dipraw, what can you say about pavlushka?
<dipraw> u r most welcome!!!
<Kilos> dipraw you should have written a testimonial for him
<Kilos> i relise time is an issue
<Kilos> but remember it when you apply
<Kilos> realize
<marcoceppi> Okay, if there are not further questions we'll move to vote
<dipraw> pavel is very helpful to me
<marcoceppi> #vote pavlushka
<meetingology> Please vote on: pavlushka
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<belkinsa> +0 Not enough activity, please try again in three (3) months.
<meetingology> +0 Not enough activity, please try again in three (3) months. received from belkinsa
<elacheche_anis> pavlushka: We encourage you to be more involved in the international community.. That's a way be active and find motivation, and to motivate your LoCo as well
<toddy> -1 - I think you can move a lot in your loco and I am happy to hear from it in the next year and with a few testimonals about you, I think I give you than a positiv voting.
<meetingology> -1 - I think you can move a lot in your loco and I am happy to hear from it in the next year and with a few testimonals about you, I think I give you than a positiv voting. received from toddy
<elacheche_anis> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from elacheche_anis
<marcoceppi> -1 I think you're on a good start, but would like to see more contributions - or at least better documentation of contributions, continue working on translations, helping users, and contributing!
<meetingology> -1 I think you're on a good start, but would like to see more contributions - or at least better documentation of contributions, continue working on translations, helping users, and contributing! received from marcoceppi
<popey> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from popey
<wxl> +0 would like to see more documentation of contributions and more testimonials
<meetingology> +0 would like to see more documentation of contributions and more testimonials received from wxl
<popey> I too would like to see wider contributions. I greatly appreciate the work you've done so far though! Please do come back in 3 months.
<marcoceppi> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: pavlushka
<meetingology> Votes for:0 Votes against:2 Abstentions:4
<meetingology> Motion denied
<Kilos> +0keep in contact and well help guide you
<Kilos> +0
<wxl> i agree with what everyone else says. please come back after you can document more contributions, pavlushka
<elacheche_anis> pavlushka: We encourage you to be more involved in the international community.. That's a way be active and find motivation, and to motivate your LoCo as well
<belkinsa> Kilos meant, that we will help you.
<Kilos> ty belkinsa im half asleep here
<wxl> and PLEASE ask for help! the ubuntu community is wide and vast and can be difficult to navigate at times. we're always here to help. feel free to stop by #ubuntu-community-team which includes a lot of people that'd be happy to help and know the community well
<pavlushka> Got it, thanks
<belkinsa> pavlushka, elacheche_anis is right and you us to help you and also the LoCo Contacts mailing-list.
<marcoceppi> pavlushka: thank you for applying, I think you're on the right track but the board seems to agree there still work to be done! keep up the great work and I encourage you to apply again in 3 months time
<belkinsa> pavlushka, thank you for you time and please take all of our advise to you heart.
<pavlushka> sure.
<wxl> pavlushka: i definitely believe your heart is in the right place. i think if you could document the people that you helped and/or had their contributions, you'd have a pretty strong application right there
<Kilos> yes pavlushka dont give up your good work
<Kilos> just get more involved
<dipraw> he maintains my PC over the phone and he gave setup to my PC
<dipraw> i'm sorry people
<wxl> pavlushka: do keep in mind, too, that "sustained" contributions are important. doing some translations is great, but continuing to do them over a period of time is crucial
<wxl> there is no need to be sorry, dipraw. we are all encouraging pavlushka !
<dipraw> i am facing some problem withmy internet connection here
<pavlushka> Yep
<wxl> dipraw: i would invite you to write a testimonial about pavlushka on his wiki page
<dipraw> sorry for being late
<wxl> dipraw: talk about what he's done for you with regards to ubuntu
<dipraw> okay
<dipraw> i will provide
<dipraw> thank u
<wxl> thank you very much, dipraw
<dipraw> very much
<marcoceppi> Unless there's any other business, I want to thank the board, the applicants (pavlushka), and everyone else for joining today
<Kilos> and get others to do the same dipraw
<wxl> +1 Kilos
<marcoceppi> Untill next time, take care
<popey> o/
<marcoceppi> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Mar  3 20:29:11 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-03-03-20.01.moin.txt
<Kilos> ty for applying pavlushka
<popey> thanks everyone!
<dipraw> take care everyone
<wxl> thank you very much everyone
<Kilos> ty all
<pavlushka> Thanks for the Time!!
<pavlushka> Looking forward.
<wxl> stay in touch pavlushka and looking forward to your next application :)
<pavlushka> sure if the server does not does down.
<pavlushka> sure if the server does not goes down.
<pavlushka> sure if the server does not go down.
<pavlushka> Nevermind, I will.
<Kilos> the more contact you have te better pavlushka and try to grow your loco
<Kilos> get everyone you convert to ubuntu to join the loco as well
<tsimonq2> wxl: you got that description pretty much spot on :)
<tsimonq2> I sent an email to ubuntu-quality about it :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-03-04
<Kilos> hi dholbach you early
<Kilos> been away?
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-02-27
<tyhicks> hello
<tyhicks> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Feb 27 16:42:07 2017 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<tyhicks> Andreas Cadhalpun provided debdiffs for xenial and yakkety for ffmpeg (LP: #1664402 #1664403)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1664402 in ffmpeg (Ubuntu) "FFmpeg security fixes February 2017 (yakkety)" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1664402
<tyhicks> Paul Gevers (elbrus) provided debdiffs for trusty and xenial for cacti (LP: #1663891)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1663891 in cacti (Ubuntu Trusty) "Security uploads for cacti (trusty and xenial)" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1663891
<tyhicks> Brian Morton (rokclimb15) provided debdiffs for precise-yakkety for libssh2 (LP: #1664812)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1664812 in libssh2 (Ubuntu) "CVE-2016-0787" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1664812
<tyhicks> Gianfranco Costamagna (LocutusOfBorg) provided debdiffs for trusty-yakkety for tcpdump (LP: #1662177)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1662177 in tcpdump (Ubuntu) "tcpdump multiple CVEs" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1662177
<tyhicks> Thank you for your assistance in keeping Ubuntu users secure! :)
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<tyhicks> jdstrand: you're up
<jdstrand> hi!
<jdstrand> this week I plan to work on:
<jdstrand> various snappy PR reviews (snap-confine, Personal, et al interfaces) and store reviews
<jdstrand> review gsettings patches
<jdstrand> various policy updates for 2.23
<jdstrand> that's it for me
<jdstrand> continue seccomp arg filtering policy
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm on community this week
<mdeslaur> and I'm about to release tiff updates
<mdeslaur> and I'll be going down the list
<mdeslaur> that's about it, sbeattie, you're up
<sbeattie> I'm on bug triage this week
<sbeattie> I also have kernel signoffs to do.
<sbeattie> after that, I'll also be focusing on updates
<sbeattie> that's pretty much it for me. tyhicks, you're up
<tyhicks> I'm on cve triage this week
<tyhicks> I need to propose a bit of a design change for the seccomp kernel patches and send out revision 5 of the set
<tyhicks> need to circle back to the apparmor utils patch set to fix something that cboltz requested and then send out revision 2 of the set
<tyhicks> I have a design review to do
<tyhicks> and right now I'm fighting with configuration issues on my new laptop so I need to spend a little time smoothing those out
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> I need to revise the gsetting patches based on review feedback, and send out the notification patchset so it can be reviewed
<jjohansen> and I need to get back to upstreaming work, I am hoping to get an RFC out this week so I can do another pull request in a few weeks
<jjohansen> oh and there some bugs, I need to follow up on.
<jjohansen> that is it for me, sarnold
<sarnold> I'm in the happy place this week; I'm going to release the shadow update, finish the lasso mir, AA patch reviews, and then move down the list of MIRs
<sarnold> that's it for me, chrisccoulson?
<chrisccoulson> I plan to get our firefox packages building with rust by the end of the week
<chrisccoulson> I've also got to start preparing the next update, which is next week
<chrisccoulson> Before I do that, I need to fix our menubar patch which currently makes it crash thanks to a late change in firefox
<chrisccoulson> I also need to unbreak ubufox (bug 1648649)
<ubottu> bug 1648649 in ubufox (Ubuntu) "Ubufox is broken in Firefox Nightly, due to using no-longer-supported "for each" syntax. Error console now shows "SyntaxError: missing ( after for UpdateNotifier.js:217:8"" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1648649
<chrisccoulson> Other than that, I've got 2 large code reviews to do for oxide
<chrisccoulson> I suspect I might not get much else done this week
<chrisccoulson> that's me done
<ratliff> I'm in the happy place this week
<ratliff> I'm still working on vivid updates for Core and Touch
<ratliff> back to you, tyhicks
<tyhicks> thanks!
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/php-openid.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/sleekxmpp.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/collectd.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/vxl.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libpdfbox-java.html
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<chrisccoulson> oh, I need to sponsor chromium too :)
<tyhicks> ack
<tyhicks> jdstrand, mdeslaur, sbeattie, jjohansen, sarnold, ChrisCoulson, ratliff: Thanks!
<tyhicks> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Feb 27 16:56:22 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-02-27-16.42.moin.txt
<ratliff> thank you, tyhicks!
<mdeslaur> thanks tyhicks
<jjohansen> thanks tyhicks
<sarnold> thanks tyhicks :)
<sbeattie> tyhicks: thanks1
<rbasak> o/
<rbasak> Who's here?
<bdmurray> me
<brookswarner> rbasak: i'm here but dont count
<slashd> rbasak, few SEG fols are here today for the sru-uploader vote
<slashd> folks
<tinoco> o/
 * Mmike is here
 * ddstreet here too
<rbasak> I know micahg_mobile might be having connectivity issues.
<rbasak> But we still need one more additional DMB member for quorum.
<slashd> rbasak, can we ping them on the channel to see if someone answer ?
<bdmurray> They were pinded in #ubuntu-devel.
<slashd> bdmurray, ack
<slashd> tks
<cyphermox> o/
<rbasak> OK we might have four if micahg_mobile manages to participate.
<rbasak> He said he might be more able at 1930.
<rbasak> Who's chairing?
<micahg_mobile> Well, we can try
<rbasak> #startmeeting DMB
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Feb 27 19:15:02 2017 UTC.  The chair is rbasak. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic:
<rbasak> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items
<chiluk> o/
<rbasak> cyphermox to handle Sean Davis' xfdashboard packageset request
<rbasak> cyphermox to refresh Kubuntu packageset
<rbasak> cyphermox: I think both of those are done?
<cyphermox> both still todo, hopefully I can get to them later
<rbasak> Oh, OK.
<cyphermox> for now I'm fighting maas here.
<rbasak> #action cyphermox to handle Sean Davis' xfdashboard packageset request (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: cyphermox to handle Sean Davis' xfdashboard packageset request (carried over)
<rbasak> #action cyphermox to refresh Kubuntu packageset (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: cyphermox to refresh Kubuntu packageset (carried over)
<rbasak> #topic Ubuntu Contributing Developer Applications
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Contributing Developer Applications
<rbasak> #subtopic Ross Gammon (rosco2)
<rbasak> Rosco2: hello!
<Rosco2> Hi All
<rbasak> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RossGammon/ContributingDeveloperApplication
<rbasak> I reviewed Ross' previous application earlier.
<rbasak> Looking for the link
<rbasak> #link https://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2016/08/01/%23ubuntu-meeting.html#t15:21
<rbasak> Does anyone have any further questions for Rosco2?
<micahg_mobile> I'm wondering what has changed
<micahg_mobile> I see comments now, but I don't see any uploads past October
<cyphermox> well, his last meeting was in august.
<bdmurray> okay, but 3 uploads since august doesn't seem like enough to show significance.
<micahg_mobile> 3 uploads in 6 months isn't significant and sustained contribution IMHO
<Rosco2> No uploads recently - but some waiting for sponsorship
<cyphermox> I'm not saying it necessarily meets the guidelines, just that there exists uploads since last review.
<micahg_mobile> Rosco2: you're also already an Ubuntu member, so this status won't confer any additional rights
<rbasak> Rosco2: have you had any other development activity you can call out apart from uploads and uploads pending sponsorship?
<Rosco2> Well this year so far in Ubuntu has mainly been about releases
<micahg_mobile> Not that Contributing dev isn't a nice badge of honor as well, but just wanted to point that out
<Rosco2> I have been ISO testing for point releases & Zesty Beta 1
<rbasak> I see 15 uploads in all and two in the sponsorship queue.
<rbasak> Latest thing in the sponsorship queue is dated 21 Feb
<Rosco2> There are also a few backports that have gone stale that I need to get back to
<rbasak> Any other questions for Rosco2?
<rbasak> #vote Grant Rosco2 Contributing Developer
<meetingology> Please vote on: Grant Rosco2 Contributing Developer
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<rbasak> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from rbasak
<micahg_mobile> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from micahg_mobile
<rbasak> I think the number of uploads, even if over a long period of time and not very dense currently, adds up to significant enough. I appreciate your contributions.
<rbasak> Especially as Set, Timo and Daniel all appear happy with your work.
<micahg_mobile> Ditto
<Rosco2> thanks
<cyphermox> +12
<meetingology> +12 received from cyphermox
<cyphermox> ugh
<cyphermox> +1, obviously.
<meetingology> +1, obviously. received from cyphermox
<bdmurray> I guess I don't need to vote then
<bdmurray> but I will anyway
<bdmurray> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bdmurray
<rbasak> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Grant Rosco2 Contributing Developer
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<rbasak> Congratulations Rosco2 and thank you for your contributions.
<rbasak> Can someone volunteer to sort that and announce it please?
<Rosco2> Your'e welcome. Tanks for your time everyone
<rbasak> #action rbasak to add Rosco2 to the contributing developer team
<meetingology> ACTION: rbasak to add Rosco2 to the contributing developer team
<rbasak> #action rbasak to announce Rosco2's new contributing developer team membership
<meetingology> ACTION: rbasak to announce Rosco2's new contributing developer team membership
<rbasak> #topic SRU uploader proposal
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic: SRU uploader proposal
<rbasak> #link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2017-February/039690.html
<rbasak> My position is a +1 already obviously.
<bdmurray> rbasak: Do you expect people to already have some upload rights before applying to this new team? If so what kind?
<rbasak> To the other board members: opinions? Objections? Anything I can address before a vote?
<rbasak> bdmurray: no, I expect new members of this team to be uploading directly for the first time by joining it.
<chiluk> rbasak that's why it's a great idea ^^
<rbasak> Right, as a stepping stone.
<bdmurray> rbasak: directly uploading for the first time to main / restricted?
<rbasak> bdmurry: yes. But in stable releases only, for things that meet SRU policy only.
<sarnold> rbasak: as a member of the security team but not core-dev I've got similar privileges; it's a bit strange to have privileges to push updates to ~25M machines but not to check in changes to -devel. But it'd be far more annoying to have to go through patch piloting for every change..
<rbasak> bdmurray sorry :)
<micahg_mobile> Sarnold, that was a loophole I meant to address several years ago :)
<sarnold> micahg_mobile :)
<bdmurray> I guess I have concerns as an SRU team member about keeping up with the volume of reviews. Its some what challenging as it is.
<rbasak> bdmurray: I do expect the DMB to grant this only to applicants who have shown that they understand SRU policy and procedure by having a good track record of doing these things. And there would be a second sanity check through the SRU team anyway. But if there's any concern that an applicant will bother the SRU team, I'd expect that application to be refused.
<chiluk> bdmurray.. .ubuntu-sru team would still have to approve the upload.
<tinoco> bdmurray: it would be the same amount since our case load wouldn't change
<bdmurray> tinoco: its not just a team for you though, anybody could apply to join it.
<rbasak> bdmurray: it might also be reasonable to expect endorsements for the SRU team and refuse an application if there aren't any. I hadn't considered that before.
<micahg_mobile> Bdmurray: I brought that up at the last meeting and was told the load would be the same
<rbasak> micahg_mobile: yeah that's MHO.
<tinoco> you can control the load with the amount of people you approve. controlling bottleneck in the sru team if needed.
<rbasak> I don't see any reason why this would open the floodgates to the SRU team.
<micahg_mobile> I can forsee such a case :)
<rbasak> Currently the demand comes from Canonical STS who are getting their SRU requests sponsosred anyway
<rbasak> Uploads under this scheme would either be acceptable to the SRU team, or not.
<rbasak> If they're acceptable, then we should be taking them and growing the SRU team even if it does increase workload. Why should we be turning down good SRU contributions?
<bdmurray> I don't think saying "we can't have more people in the team because the SRU team is overloaded" is fair
<rbasak> If they're not acceptable, then I'm proposing that we don't grant membership of this team to such applicants.
<micahg_mobile> Yeah, but once we compress the feedback window by eliminating sponsorship, there's the potential to start throwing more fixes in
<rbasak> micahg_mobile: that's true, but that's a good thing surely?
<bdmurray> Will there be a way for an SRU team member to request removal of somebody from the team?
<rbasak> bdmurray: who do you think is saying that?
<rbasak> request removal> I'm not sure the DMB has ever had to do that before, but if it came up, it would presumably be the DMB who would handle it.
<rbasak> (and I think we have the remit)
<bdmurray> tinoco said "you can control the load with the amount of people you approve"
<rbasak> Ah, OK.
<tinoco> bdmurray: totally agree on what you are saying
<rbasak> I'd take a request to have someone removed from any uploading team quite seriously.
<bdmurray> If there is a way for the SRU team to get people removed I'd feel better. Although the SRU team would need a way to keep track of rejections I guess.
<rbasak> And perhaps the DMB should deal with that in private or something.
<rbasak> But given the SRU team have to review everything anyway, it would make no sense for the DMB to refuse to remove someone the SRU team want removed.
<rbasak> So how about:
<rbasak> 1) We expect SRU team endorsement on any application.
<rbasak> 2) The SRU team can ask for any SRU uploader to be removed.
<rbasak> s/expect/require/ if you prefer.
<rbasak> Whether the SRU team think any single SRU team member should be able to request removal, or it needs a majority, or what, could perhaps be entirely up to them.
<rbasak> By "can ask for" I mean "the DMB will do it".
<micahg_mobile> It should be either a majority of the SRU team or DMB votes (or both)
<bdmurray> The SRU team is rather large so majority seems like a lot to me.
<micahg_mobile> Ok, I just want some checks here
<rbasak> Taking off my SRU team hat for a moment, I was thinking of leaving how they want to resolve their decision as up to them.
<micahg_mobile> DMB vote is fine even if 1 person requests the DMB to review
<rbasak> Let me write this down: http://pad.ubuntu.com/m9xRiL8pyP
<rbasak> How does that look? Does that cover all options that have been proposed?
<bdmurray> I don't think "requires" SRU team member endorsement is necessary.  SRU sponsor would be fine.  Its harder to find the SRU accepter than it is the SRU sponsor.
<bdmurray> As an SRU team member I don't recall good uploads rather its the rejects I remember more.
<bdmurray> I'd also like to see members of this ubuntu-sru-uploaders team not leave stuff languishing in -proposed.
<bdmurray> The pending-sru report is full of sadness.
<slashd> bdmurray, most of our work in STS requires to SRU to be Fix Release before we close the support ticket with customer
<slashd> so it won't be a problem for us
<chiluk> bdmurray, so that's an additional permission bit... promotion from -proposed -> -updates... are you proposing that ubuntu-sru-uploader have those rights?
<bdmurray> chiluk: No, I'm saying verify your uploads if nobody else does.
<tinoco> chiluk: i believe he said for us to verify things more quickly.
<slashd> chiluk, I think he is talking about the verification-done step
<micahg_mobile> I agree with bdmurray on the endoresements piece
<micahg_mobile> And rbasak on how a member should be removed
<slashd> bdmurray,rbasak, Does this potential sru-uploader team would be able to nominate bugs for release without approval ?
<rbasak> slashd: I think that's a separate issue.
<slashd> rbasak, ack
<rbasak> And doesn't really fall under the DMB.
<rbasak> It's a bug squad/bug control thing.
<slashd> ok, disregard my last comment then
<rbasak> We should still address that, but not at the DMB.
<bdmurray> rbasak: it might just work with the acl
<rbasak> I'm hoping so :)
<rbasak> cyphermox: opinions?
<chiluk> rbasak, i'm part of both bug control and bug squad teams, and don't have permission to approve nominated releases...
<rbasak> chiluk: I'm aware :)
<chiluk> rbasak do you know what team I'm missing?
<rbasak> chiluk: I believe you get it if you can upload the package.
<rbasak> But let's talk about that another time.
<rbasak> Back to the pad
<rbasak> For joining, I'm happy to not require 2 either.
<bdmurray> upload the package or member of a special ubuntu-release-nominators team
<micahg_mobile> Uploader rights for the package or there are two other teams I think, ubuntu-release and I thought we made one team that didn't have other rights attached to it
<micahg_mobile> That's it
<rbasak> bdmurray, micahg_mobile: how does the pad look for you now? Are you comfortable with what we have now?
<bdmurray> Can we resolve line 1?
<rbasak> Good point.
<rbasak> I'm happy either way.
<micahg_mobile> Yeah, I think it is fine
<rbasak> I guess that means I say "expected".
<rbasak> But if someone wants to tighten it to "requires" I'm fine with that.
<bdmurray> That's what I expect
<rbasak> Now that's a confusing statement :-)
<rbasak> You expect someone to tigthen it to "requires"? :-P
<bdmurray> I expect it to say excpet not requires
<rbasak> OK I'll change it.
<rbasak> And let me take out 2, since we seem to have some consensus it isn't required.
<rbasak> cyphermox: ?
<cyphermox> sorry, I'm busy
<rbasak> OK
<rbasak> micahg_mobile, bdmurray: are you +1 on the current pad?
<bdmurray> yes
<micahg_mobile> Yes
<rbasak> Great, thanks! I guess there's no need for a formal meetingology vote for the sake of it.
<rbasak> We'll need one more +1.
<rbasak> Shall we move on and let the others vote offline?
<rbasak> I will copy the pad, clean up and post it to the thread.
<micahg_mobile> Rbasak: Shows up in the meeting logs as a vote :)
<rbasak> #topic Expiring DMB members
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic: Expiring DMB members
<micahg_mobile> Can we change members to membership please?
<rbasak> micahg_mobile: you mean line 11
<rbasak> ?
<micahg_mobile> Current topic :)
<rbasak> #topic Expiring DMB membership
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic: Expiring DMB membership
<rbasak> cyphermox pointed out that his membership expires soon
<rbasak> 2015-03-02
<cyphermox> yep, in 4 days
<cyphermox> FWIW, +1 on the SRU proposal from me
<rbasak> Oh great, thanks. Then it's done :)
<rbasak> \o/
<rbasak> s/2015-03-02/2017-03-01/
<cyphermox> ... or less than four days
<rbasak> Yeah, so we need to organise nominations and a vote for cyphermox's seat, right?
<rbasak> cyphermox: are you intending to stand again?
<micahg_mobile> I think the first thing would be to ask the TB to extend cyphermox's membership 4 weeks so we can hold an election
<cyphermox> rbasak: I'm not sure.
<rbasak> micahg_mobile: that sounds reasonable. Everyone happy with that?
<bdmurray> +1 for the extension
<bdmurray> Doesn't Adam expire this year too?
<rbasak> #agreed The DMB will ask the TB to extend cyphermox's membership 4 weeks so we can hold an election
<rbasak> Yes, 2017-08-03
<rbasak> Should we hold an election early for that seat too, or wait?
<cyphermox> ask infinity?
<bdmurray> I guess it is 5 months
<micahg_mobile> His membership expires in August, we could seek 2 now and have the second one's term start in August
<rbasak> I'm fine either way
<rbasak> Also, would it be an idea to adjust term lengths to get those two seats lined up?
<bdmurray> Are we excluding anybody by holding the election early?
<rbasak> Just to save admin in the future. I don't think anyone will care about the length adjustments, will they?
<micahg_mobile> 18 months or so for the second one I guess
<rbasak> Yeah that sounds right
<rbasak> OK so two things
<rbasak> 1) Hold an election for infinity's seat now, together with cyphermox's seat.
<rbasak> 2) Shorten infinity's seat's next term to coincide expiry with cyphermox's seat's next term.
<rbasak> Presumably we'd hold the usual ranked CIVS thing and give the top result the longer immediate seat, and the second result the shorter delayed seat?
<rbasak> Everyone happy with that?
<bdmurray> 0) ask for extension for cyphermox
<rbasak> Yep
 * rbasak minuted that already :)
<rbasak> I thought that was uncontroversial :)
<bdmurray> okay
<rbasak> cyphermox? micahg_mobile?
<cyphermox> heh, either way is fine by me
<slashd> rbasak, with regard to the sru-uploader team ... what are the next steps ? Do you guys need more votes or we can already say it is officially approved ?
<slashd> and when do you think ppl can start applying for this new team ?
<rbasak> slashd: I'll sort it on the mailing list afterwards.
<slashd> rbasak perfect, tks
<slashd> tks all for your time about this subject
<micahg_mobile> Rbasak, I'm good with that
<rbasak> Great, thanks!
<rbasak> Any volunteers to sort it out?
<bdmurray> which thing?
<bdmurray> If its the SRU team thing could we break up the tasks?
<rbasak> The three things - extending cyphermox's term, organising the vote, announcing the adjustment of terms, etc.
<rbasak> I'm happy to take sorting out the SRU team thing.
<bdmurray> I guess we can't make cyphermox do it
<bdmurray> So I'll do it
<rbasak> Thank you!
<rbasak> #action bdmurray to sort out votes and related items in respect of the two upcoming expiring DMB memberships
<rbasak> #action rbasak to sort out the SRU uploaders team
<meetingology> ACTION: bdmurray to sort out votes and related items in respect of the two upcoming expiring DMB memberships
<meetingology> ACTION: rbasak to sort out the SRU uploaders team
<rbasak> #topic Any other business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic: Any other business
<rbasak> Anything else to raise?
<chiluk> rbasak.. my core dev application status?
<rbasak> Let me check.
<chiluk> thanks.
<bdmurray> I may have replied privately not publicly.
<rbasak> So there was no vote from anyone at the IRC meeting, correct?
<chiluk> rbasak not that I recall ...
<micahg_mobile> I'm sorry, I thought that was addressed in the last meeting, but I don't remember the conclusion
<rbasak> I count +1s from sil2100, BenC and cyphermox.
<rbasak> bdmurray: I don't see a private or public vote from you, nor from Adam.
<bdmurray> rbasak: looking
<rbasak> And I had deferred for the ~ubuntu-sru-uploader topic. Now that is resolved, I need to look again, but I suspect the reason I did that was because I felt that would be more appropriate.
<rbasak> But I'll give myself an action to look again properly.
<bdmurray> I see a sent mail about it
<rbasak> #action rbasak to vote on chiluk's core dev application
<meetingology> ACTION: rbasak to vote on chiluk's core dev application
<bdmurray> resent it
<rbasak> Ah
<rbasak> I see it.
<rbasak> In that case, I don't need to do anything :)
<rbasak> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: ACTION
<rbasak> chiluk: congratulations :)
<chiluk> WOOHOO!
<chiluk> thanks guys.
<rbasak> Now this one we _can_ give to cyphermox :-)
<rbasak> #action cyphermox to add chiluk's core dev membership
<meetingology> ACTION: cyphermox to add chiluk's core dev membership
<rbasak> #action cyphermox to announce chiluk's core dev membership
<meetingology> ACTION: cyphermox to announce chiluk's core dev membership
<rbasak> cyphermox: seems only fair as bdmurray is handling your seat :-)
<rbasak> OK. AOAOB?
<rbasak> I guess we're done then!
<rbasak> Thank you all for your patience. Long meeting!
<rbasak> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Feb 27 20:52:29 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-02-27-19.15.moin.txt
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-02-28
<cpaelzer> o/
<powersj> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Feb 28 16:00:17 2017 UTC.  The chair is powersj. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<rharper> \o
<powersj> I'll wait a moment to get a few more folks
 * jgrimm waves, but not paying attention. in another meeting
<nacc> \o
<rbasak> o/
<powersj> alright let's get started
<powersj> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<powersj> nacc to review jgrimm's openvpn MR
<nacc> i believe that's done
<jgrimm> merged, done
<powersj> great! next...
<powersj> jgrimm to review server packages for anything new (or missed) that needs merging
<jgrimm> ongoing. mark done
<powersj> he may be busy as he said... I can follow up after
<powersj> ah ok :)
<powersj> one more...
<powersj> rbasak to look at seeding iotop & nicstat with powersj
<powersj> done!
<rbasak> \o/
<nacc> let's release already :)
<nacc> we're so done
<powersj> all action points done :D
<rharper> heh
<powersj> #topic Zesty Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Zesty Development
<powersj> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ZestyZapus/ReleaseSchedule
<powersj> #subtopic blueprints
<powersj> #https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-z-server-core
<powersj> I see 7 inprogress
<powersj> any updates here?
<nacc> excuses is a lot clearer now -- still working through some updates, but i think our bigger packages are through, except for openldap
<rbasak> Don't forget to keep minuting things - easy to forget :)
<powersj> cool!
<powersj> ah yes
<nacc> i'll do another sweept today -- my current unknown blocker is the log4ada regression
<powersj> #info blueprint is looking good, big stuff done, except openldap
<powersj> #subtopic Release Bugs
<powersj> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-z-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<powersj> Anything of note here? nacc you are only one with something, 2 unassigned
<nacc> powersj: that is getting deferred to z+1
<cpaelzer> the libvirt one will be an SRU
<nacc> i'm workingon setting maas up for it by then
<cpaelzer> it is super low importance
<cpaelzer> I might even nack an SRU on a deeper look
<nacc> cpaelzer: we may want to re-ping the release team on remving src:postgresql-9.6 on irc
<cpaelzer> oh yeah - ack nacc
<nacc> cpaelzer: actually, i'll do it today, if htat's ok
<nacc> need to remove php7.1 as well
<powersj> #action cpaelzer to ping release team on removing src:postgresql-9.6
<meetingology> ACTION: cpaelzer to ping release team on removing src:postgresql-9.6
<cpaelzer> absolutely
<powersj> oops lol
<powersj> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: ACTION
<cpaelzer> nacc: highlight me on the ping and let them know that it is you-or-me to contact
<cpaelzer> we cover almost all timezones together
<nacc> cpaelzer: ack
<powersj> #action nacc to ping release team on removing src:postgresql-9.6 and src:php7.1
<meetingology> ACTION: nacc to ping release team on removing src:postgresql-9.6 and src:php7.1
<powersj> any other release bug comments or I'm moving on....
<powersj> #info looking good, minor issues for libvirt, otherwise covered
<powersj> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs & SRU/Pending Uploads (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs & SRU/Pending Uploads (caribou)
<powersj> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-x-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<powersj> caribou: any update?
<caribou> oops, sorry forgot to prepare,just give me a minute
<powersj> ok :)
<cpaelzer> I have mine of the week prepped
<cpaelzer> DONE: Strongswan (X,Y), Multipath (X), Qemu (X,Y,UCA)
<cpaelzer> INPROG: Qemu (T), Qemu (X,Y), Libvirt (T/X/Y/Z)
<cpaelzer> The Qemu X/Y is complex and stuck in testing and dev discussions at the moment
<cpaelzer> The multipath is actually just helping STS so this will be in Caribous list
<caribou> #info SRU are pending for : ceph, libvirt, sosreport, multipath-tools, python-os-brick, sssd
<cpaelzer> caribou: can you link me the incoming libvirt SRU?
<cpaelzer> trusty?
<caribou> cpaelzer: LP: #1317491
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1317491 in libvirt (Ubuntu Trusty) "virsh blockcommit hangs at 100%" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1317491
<cpaelzer> ah yeah I'm on that - thanks
<powersj> caribou: great, thanks. Any other comments?
<caribou> powersj: nothing else, no
<powersj> great
<powersj> moving on.
<powersj> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
<powersj> #link https://jenkins.ubuntu.com/server/
<powersj> Last week got the JLP merge request in and merged, so we should be able to see cloud-init git based CI in the next week or two. There is a remaining piece of functionality that I do not have done yet though, but not required for our use case.
<powersj> Lots of changes and modifications to curtin vmtests to make them more stable. I have a list of things I still need to get done and hope to do this week.
<powersj> Worked with Christian on QEMU migration tests, however finding the LXD is really running into issues now on our main test system even launching a container. See https://github.com/lxc/lxd/issues/2814 I need to get this cleaned up as most of our tests rely on LXD.
<powersj> questions?
<cpaelzer> powersj: we can go on using dir instead of zfs for now
<powersj> cpaelzer: I'd like to avoid that, as it is incredibly slower and makes some other tests time out
<cpaelzer> powersj: that never has shown the bug - and yes slower sometimes, but better than not at all
<powersj> true
<powersj> #info ci for cloud-init coming soon...
<cpaelzer> actually I have cases wher eit is faster btw, but if we have timeouts on cloud-init/curtin ok
<powersj> #info lxd issue, slowing down/stopping testing
<powersj> ok we can play with it after the meeting
<cpaelzer> ack powersj
<powersj> I would like to get the lxd guys on the system if possible though to help resolve this
<cpaelzer> yep I suggested the same last time
<rharper> sounds like an action
<powersj> #action powersj to see about getting the lxd team onto torkoal
<meetingology> ACTION: powersj to see about getting the lxd team onto torkoal
<powersj> any other questions?
<powersj> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
<powersj> Not sure I see either of them
<cpaelzer> ping smb he was around
<cpaelzer> here he is
<smb> sorry got distracted
<smb> So, mostly to mention that 4.10 should now be in the zesty archive
<powersj> #info zesty archive should have 4.10
<powersj> awesome, thank you!
<rharper> smb: I filed a bcache bug last week
 * rharper finds 
<smb> rharper, have not seen it, maybe you could subscribe me
<rharper> smb: ok
<cpaelzer> ah kernel
<cpaelzer> FYI - debugged a regression mainline 3.18.22-031822.201510031227 to mainline 3.18.21-031821.201509020527 today. Covers all that crosses that like Trusty -> Xenial.
<cpaelzer> TL;DR for server raid arrays there might be a performance regresssion, read bug 1668557 if yu need details and a tuning fix.
<ubottu> bug 1668557 in linux (Ubuntu) "Write performance regression severely affecting hpsa controllers" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1668557
<rharper> bug 1667078
<ubottu> bug 1667078 in linux (Ubuntu) "bcache device numbers increase by 16" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1667078
<cpaelzer> mine is a kernel fix that "has to stay" but will cause trouble for some upgrades
<cpaelzer> so for awareness towards smb and caribou
<rharper> smb: subscribed; thanks
<smb> rharper, thanks
<smb> cpaelzer, and also thanks
<powersj> anything else for kernel?
<powersj> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Upcoming Call For Papers
<powersj> #link https://lwn.net/Calendar/Monthly/cfp/
<powersj> I didn't see anything here
<powersj> anyone have something, otherwise moving on
<powersj> #info nothing here
<powersj> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<powersj> not aware of anything here either
<powersj> #info nothing here
<powersj> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<powersj> *crickets*
<powersj> anything? otherwise I'll end this
<cpaelzer> ah
<cpaelzer> here
<powersj> ah :)
<cpaelzer> I was triaging a lot recently and I wondered if it might be worth to have a nginx-triaging-style page also for mysql
<cpaelzer> rbasak: ^^
<cpaelzer> (I know he is not here)
<powersj> yes please
<cpaelzer> it turns out 80% of the bugs are actually different variants of three issues
<cpaelzer> socket not reachable, user misconfigured, old features enabled that no more work
<cpaelzer> maybe together we can make it 5 which cover >90%
<cpaelzer> maybe this could be an actiaon for rbasak, powersj and me
<cpaelzer> action rather
<powersj> agreed
<cpaelzer> make a draft wiki page
<cpaelzer> and on triaging link to that and be faster so often
<powersj> #action rbasak, powersj, cpaelzer to draft mysql triage response page like nginx has
<meetingology> ACTION: rbasak, powersj, cpaelzer to draft mysql triage response page like nginx has
<cpaelzer> now even I'm silent - I know it is a rare thing :-P
<powersj> cpaelzer: did you catch nacc up on triaging?
<cpaelzer> I did not want to say in pub, but yes
<powersj> well thank you
<nacc> yes, many thanks to cpaelzer !
<cpaelzer> ~+15 for ubunut-server to look deeper into
<powersj> haha
<cpaelzer> the magical Ubu  Nut - cracking
<powersj> last call, any other topics?
<cpaelzer> https://dudleys.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/ubunut.jpg
<powersj> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<cpaelzer> the ubunut
<powersj> same time, same place, with cpaelzer as chair
<cpaelzer> damn
<cpaelzer> ack
<powersj> o/
<powersj> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Feb 28 16:30:00 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-02-28-16.00.moin.txt
<cpaelzer> o//
<rharper> powersj: double thanks!
<rbasak> cpaelzer: yeah, that's a good idea. Sorry, the electrician is busy electrocuting himself and tripping circuits right now )
<cpaelzer> oO
<rbasak> He appears to be less paranoid about I am about the wiring in this house.
<tsimonq2> <___< ... o.o ... >___>
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-03-01
<ajay_> hi
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-03-02
 * slangasek waves
<sil2100> o/
<barry> \o
<robru> o~
<caribou> ~o
<tdaitx> ~o~
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Mar  2 16:02:00 2017 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<gaughen> o/
<bdmurray> the anticipation is killing me
<bdmurray> whose on first?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity sil2100 robru cyphermox tdaitx xnox chiluk mwhudson)
<slangasek> sil2100 tdaitx bdmurray infinity doko mwhudson barry slangasek cyphermox xnox caribou chiluk robru
<sil2100> Oh my
<robru> I win!
<gaughen> you won sil2100!
<sil2100> - Sick for most of the week, Mon+Tue off, lower productivity
<sil2100> - Landing team work, silo coordination
<sil2100> - SRU reviews
<sil2100> - Publishing kernel SRUs (f*cked up, those were marked as ready invalidly)
<sil2100> - Looking at walinuxagent test results, minor tweaks in packaging
<sil2100> - Looking into ubuntu-image changelog-for-PR functionality
<sil2100> (done)
<tdaitx> * Short week: holiday on Monday and Tuesday
<tdaitx> = OpenJDK
<tdaitx>   * Bug review/test (Debian: #850268, LP: #1314113, LP: #1255821, LP: #1548434, ...)
<tdaitx> = Merges
<tdaitx>   * open-vm-tools got merged while I was finishing it (investigating xml-security-c/xmlsec1 dependencies)
<tdaitx>     - there were 2 open bugs for the merge, LP: #1651608 and LP: #1666430
<ubottu> Debian bug 850268 in src:openjdk-8 "Please stop using deprecated GNOME libraries (libgnome-2-0, libgnomevfs2-0, libgconf2-4)" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/850268
<tdaitx>     - IIRC the former was set on merges ubuntu, now the later is
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1314113 in openjdk-7 (Ubuntu) "TLS 1.1 and 1.2 are disabled by default" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1314113
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1255821 in openjdk-6 (Ubuntu) "A fatal error has been detected by the Java Runtime Environment on start-up eclipse in ubuntu-13.04" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1255821
<tdaitx>     - created debian bug to Build-Depends on either libssl1.0-dev|libssl-dev (Debian: #856569) to make backporting easier
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1548434 in openjdk-8 (Ubuntu) "jmap -heap broken since update to 7u95-2.6.4-0ubuntu0.14.04.1" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1548434
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1666430 in open-vm-tools (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1651608 Please merge open-vm-tools 10.1.0-4449150-3ubuntu1 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1666430
<tdaitx>     - investigating whether xml-security-c can be replaced by xmlsec1
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1666430 in open-vm-tools (Ubuntu) "Please merge open-vm-tools 10.1.0-4449150-3ubuntu1 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1666430
<tdaitx>   * ncurses (ongoing, LP: #1637239)
<ubottu> Debian bug 856569 in open-vm-tools "open-vm-tools: Depend on either libssl1.0-dev or libssl-dev" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/856569
<tdaitx> = OpenJDK 7 (low priority)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1637239 in ncurses (Ubuntu) "Please merge ncurses 6.0+20160917-1 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1637239
<tdaitx>   * Retesting Mauve after discussion on its mailing list
<tdaitx> = Other
<tdaitx>   * Watched Cloud TH newest episode
<tdaitx>   * Enjoyed Carnival holidays by setting up new router, organizing my NAS (movies and series), playing Quarriors and City of Horror with friends, all while missing the snow and cold+dry weather
<tdaitx> (done)
<bdmurray> fixed additional issues with the retracers-cache-restart script
<bdmurray> submitted RT to have retracer-charm updated in staging, production
<bdmurray> worked with webops regarding retracer memory upgrade
<bdmurray> automated cassandra-querier reports, setup apache and vpn access
<bdmurray> created snap daemon to clean up old crashes i.e. cronjob
<bdmurray> investigated some missing info in snap crashes
<bdmurray> added outstanding unattended-upgrades MPs to zesty
<bdmurray> sponsored wget patch for X for LP: #1573307
<bdmurray> uploaded backuppc fix for X for LP: #1612600
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1573307 in wget (Ubuntu Xenial) "wget crashed with SIGSEGV in __memset_avx2()" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1573307
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1612600 in backuppc (Ubuntu Xenial) "backuppc 3.3.1-2ubuntu3 breaks pool graphs on the Status page" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1612600
<bdmurray> patch piloting
<bdmurray> modified sru-report to show uploaders lp usernames
<bdmurray> tested subiquity
<bdmurray> â done
<gaughen> thanks for testing bdmurray!
<infinity>  - Working on glibc for zesty
<infinity>  - Working on tzadata for $world
<infinity>  - Discussions with Steve about minimizing debootstrap set
<infinity>  - Emergency archive surgery to revert accidental kernel promotions
<infinity>  - Generic SRU/AA tasks
<infinity> (done)
<slangasek> sil2100: did invalid SRUs actually get published, then?
<sil2100> Yes
<sil2100> They did
<infinity> Yeah, I'm reverting the world now.
<doko> - rustc updates for zesty (1.15.1)
<doko> - rustc backports for trusty, xenial, yakkety (including cmake, binutils and llvm-3.9 backports)
<doko> - boostrapping rustc for ppc64el trusty
<doko> - binutils 2.28 release
<doko> - packaging of the gcc-7 offload compilers
<doko> - Debian bug squashing party at the weekend (in Berlin), meeting rustc maintainer
<doko> - some merges
<doko> - openjdk-9 update
<doko> - binutils SRU (ppc64el)
<doko> (done)
<barry> i guess we still skip mwhudson
<sil2100> That's a lesson for me trying to be over-helpful, but to my defence I must say that I have not known before that I am to double-check the sanity of what the kernel team's automation does
<barry> u-i: LP: #1667140; LP: #1625732 (very close, but seeing a very weird difficult to debug failure - anybody wanna help?)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1667140 in Ubuntu Image "Change d/tests to use -O instead of -o" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1667140
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1625732 in Ubuntu Image "Add DEP-8 image boot test" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1625732
<barry> debuntu: alembic import into dpmt from openstack
<barry> posted python2.7 regression information to python-dev for caribou
<barry> --done--
<caribou> barry: thanks for that
<barry> caribou: np, there are some good thoughts on the mailing list you might want to follow up on
<caribou> barry: sure will
<barry> thanks!
<chiluk> slangasek ?
<slangasek>  * cloud images
<slangasek>  * minimizing the smallest Ubuntu (LP: #1640878, LP: #1668847, et al.)
<slangasek>  * SRU processing
<slangasek>  * proposed-migration hinting/nudging
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1640878 in grub2 (Ubuntu Xenial) "grub2 cannot currently generate configuration without initrd" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1640878
<slangasek> (done)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1668847 in live-build (Ubuntu Xenial) "live-build: handle downgrade of package priority in -updates pocket" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1668847
<slangasek> cyphermox:
<cyphermox> yeah
<cyphermox> - netplan:
<cyphermox>   - adding missing STP support
<cyphermox>   - fighting spurious autopkgtest failures
<cyphermox>   - adding forward-declaration support (request from maas)
<cyphermox>   - merge missing MTU support from rharper.
<cyphermox> - subiquity:
<cyphermox>   - snapping up subiquity
<cyphermox>   - maas setup for rescue mode
<cyphermox> - zesty:
<cyphermox>   - looking at a grub fix for bad firmware behavior in some netboot cases
<cyphermox>   - ubiquity slideshow update
<cyphermox> - xenial SRUs
<cyphermox> turns out a desktop with only 4gb RAM tends to slow down when you run too many VMs on it
<cyphermox> (done)
<xnox> zlib updates landed (after rebuilding/pushing through adt)
<xnox> libodb everything verified and all SRUs landed
<xnox> fix failure to boot on a cloud
<xnox> review cloud-init changes / scoping for another cloud
<xnox> triange all outstanding s390x issues - no NEW bugs
<xnox> return to debugging bridge_role primary for bootstack
<xnox> triange systemd issues - need to prepare an upload with a few bugfixes for zesty
<xnox> ..
<slangasek> bdmurray: have you talked with the snappy team about whether they're going to be providing a systemd timers interface?
<caribou> BugFix:
<caribou> LP #1638695 : Python performance regression in Xenial
<caribou>  - Made analysis available, barry send email to python-dev ML
<caribou>  - Disabling LTO seems to improve things
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1638695 in python2.7 (Ubuntu) "Python 2.7.12 performance regression" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1638695
<caribou>  - Running the benchmarks on another arch could be useful
<bdmurray> slangasek: nobody responded to me in #snappy
<slangasek> ooh and I need to look at the sru report to find out who's surprising on there
<slangasek> bdmurray: hmm :/
<caribou>  LP #1654600 : unattended-upgrades breaks shutdown when /var is FS
<caribou>  - solution proposed in upstream Debian bug. Will upload to Z & SRU
<caribou>  - Identification slowed down by what might be another u-u bug
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1654600 in unattended-upgrades (Ubuntu) "unattended-upgrade-shutdown hangs when /var is a separate filesystem" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1654600
<caribou> Dev:
<caribou>  Sosreport 3.3 trusty SRU
<caribou>  - Need to FFE for newer upstream release as sos 3.4 is coming shortly
<caribou> â Done
<bdmurray> caribou: what other u-u bug?
<caribou> bdmurray: UnattendedUpgrade::RunOnShutdown doesn't seem to work as the network is off by the time it runs
<slangasek> sil2100: yeah, I don't double-check the bug tasks.. that's what their automation is supposed to handle
<chiluk> * lp 1647389 - Finally got a smaller reproduction environment put together for this.  That allowed me to complete my bisection which was previously being held up by openstack not liking my constant replacing of qemu *(i.e. nova crashes, libvirt crashes, etc.).  Cherrypick of that patch does not apply cleanly, I'm proceeding to work through back-porting/figuring out if there are any other patches that need to be
<chiluk> brought in.  I have a feeling there will be at least one more patch required before this is complete.  However, I finally see the light at the end of the tunnel on this one.
<chiluk> * Recovered from a disk failure in my raid 5 *(which was also hosting the VM for the above reproducer).
<chiluk> * DMB approved my core-dev application this week.  Thanks for that guys.
<chiluk> - done -
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1647389 in qemu (Ubuntu) "Regression: Live migrations can still crash after CVE-2016-5403 fix" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1647389
<caribou> bdmurray: unless I don't understand how it owrks
<robru> * archive maintenance mentoring from cyphermox
<robru> britney
<robru> * Email Policy, emails uploaders when package stuck in proposed (in review)
<robru> * workaround for Source PPA Policy, groups migration of packages from same bileto ticket (needs review, bug #1648000)
<robru> (done)
<ubottu> bug 1648000 in Launchpad itself "need API to discover where a given package is copied from" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1648000
<caribou> bdmurray: I have yet to create the LP: bug
<bdmurray> robru: what will happen with stuff already stuck in proposed? will we only get emails about new stickers?
<slangasek> bdmurray: hmm I did merge your branch, right?  why does the sru report not look different
<robru> bdmurray: the current code as written keeps a cache of what it has and hasn't emailed. the first run will see that it hasn't emailed anything and pump out a giant spam for everything that's been stuck for more than a day. after that it'll settle and only email new things that have been sitting for longer than a day.
<slangasek> bdmurray: oh, it does look different, if I both reload and look at my screen
<bdmurray> slangasek: did you see the surprising results?
<slangasek> bdmurray: do you mean init-system-helpers? :)
<bdmurray> slangasek: no, the number of things vorlon has unverified. ;-)
<slangasek> oh are there a number of them?
<bdmurray> robru: will there be an announcement before the spam event?
<slangasek> guess I should do something about those
<bdmurray> otherwise somebody might nag you!
<slangasek> well I got the nag mail about init-system-helpers, that's why it's verified now ;)
<slangasek> robru: could you draft an announcement mail for us to send out before we merge the email policy and make it live?
<robru> slangasek:
<robru> slangasek: sure. will send to  you for approval
<bdmurray> robru: Also will the roll-out be for every release of just zesty?
<slangasek> robru: can you stick it in a google doc so we can collaborate?
<robru> bdmurray: it would be for all releases
<bdmurray> cool
<robru> slangasek: should I maybe make it so that it only emails packages that are 1 <= daysold <= 20 or something? to prevent emailing the dozens that are languishing for years?
<slangasek> robru: I think we are going to want to do a dry run and see who's getting emailed for what, before we decide; but my sense is that we don't want an upper cap
<slangasek> anything else on status?
<robru> slangasek: well going forward, all packages would be emailed the day they turn daysold 1. The upper cap would only affect packages that are *already* daysold > 1
<slangasek> yes
<slangasek> and I think we do want to email the backlog
<robru> alright
<robru> slangasek: there's no way to do a dry run currently. should I add that?
<slangasek> robru: doesn't need merged, but at least for a one-off locally I think we want to see who it /would/ email for what
<slangasek> robru: anyway, we can discuss further outside the meeting
<slangasek> maybe in the MP :)
<slangasek> anything else on status?
<robru> slangasek: ok well for a one-off all you have to do is comment out the smtp.send_message and replace it with a self.log(...)
<slangasek> right
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else?
<cyphermox> I want more ram?
<infinity> You can't have more RAM.
<cyphermox> CanadaPost is slow.
<barry> i might be sending a long-ish email about this autopkgtest failure i'm seeing.  thoughts, feedback would be very welcome ;)
<slangasek> going once...
<slangasek> going twice...
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Mar  2 16:32:41 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-03-02-16.02.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks, all!
<barry> thanks!
<caribou> thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-03-03
<phunyguy> WAT
<phunyguy> grrrr channel closed so I posted here, sorry
<Kilos-> hehe
<phunyguy> yeah hit some weird key combo... not sure what though.  :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-03-05
<destroyerrocket> hello! I just passed around, to check if I had all the stuff ready ; )
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-02-26
<tyhicks> hello
<tyhicks> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Feb 26 16:33:39 2018 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<tyhicks> The generalist role rotation for this week as follows:
<tyhicks> CVE Triage: mdeslaur, Bug Triage: leosilva, Community: sarnold, Happy Place: ratliff, sbeattie
<tyhicks> An all new version of the USN website (usn.ubuntu.com) will be deployed today
<mdeslaur> \o
<tyhicks> Please report a bug (https://github.com/canonical-websites/usn.ubuntu.com/issues/) for any issue that you discover
<tyhicks> Simon Deziel (sdeziel) provided a debdiff for artful for unbound (LP: #1723900)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1723900 in unbound (Debian) "unbound systemctl (re)start fails due to Apparmor profile issue" [Unknown,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1723900
<tyhicks> Thank you for your assistance in keeping Ubuntu users secure! :)
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<tyhicks> jdstrand: you're up
<xnox> tyhicks, will the new website mine cryptocurrencies in javascript?
<jdstrand> hi!
 * xnox giggles
<tyhicks> xnox: not yet but you never know what the future holds
<jdstrand> completed: miscellaneous snappy conversations
<jdstrand> completed: store reviews
<jdstrand> completed: discuss/review PR 4741 - cmd/snap-update-ns: use recursive bind mounts for writable mimic (layouts)
<jdstrand> completed: strict snaps on livecd implementation: PR 4714 (address review feedback)
<jdstrand> progress: investigate more issues with minecraft and opening URLs
<jdstrand> completed: ubuntu-security meeting
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<jdstrand> hah
<jdstrand> wait :P
<mdeslaur> xnox: it's our new autopkgtest infrastructure
<jdstrand> * be responsive to snapd PRs
<jdstrand>   - portals (getting close)
<jdstrand>   - layouts (landed, needs a little hardening for 2.32)
<jdstrand>   - steam-support (blocked on upstream feedback)
<jdstrand> * strict mode snaps on livecd (close to landing)
<jdstrand> * miscellaneous policy investigations and updates
<jdstrand> * prepare for sprint
<jdstrand> * lxd snap regression wrt confinement as have time
<jdstrand> * create screencast interface as have time
<jdstrand> ok, now mdeslaur you're up :)
<mdeslaur> you sure your paste buffer is empty now? ;)
<mdeslaur> I'm on triage this week
<jdstrand> my password is ready to paste
<mdeslaur> I just pushed out a sensible-utils update
<mdeslaur> and I'm going to work on something new off the list
<mdeslaur> I also may have an embargoed issue
<mdeslaur> that's it from me
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up
<sbeattie> I'm in the happy place this week
 * xnox thinks there is a glitch in jdstrand AI today, and a reboot is required.
<sbeattie> I'm double-checking gcc-7, gcc-6, and gcc-5 packages with retpoline enabled by default for x86 for sponsoring today.
<sbeattie> I'm also examining a glibc built by said compilers
<xnox> sbeattie, nice =) gcc-8 as well? it's not default, but is available. And some libraries are coming from gcc-8, and used in userspace. E.g. libitm1 -> opencryptoki, etc.
<sbeattie> xnox: not yet, but yeah, I hsuld do that, too
<xnox> cool
<sbeattie> I need to add the documentation bits to a patch to hardening retpoline options to dpkg, to support hardening=[+-]retpoline and submit to debian
<sbeattie> There's other bits and bobs related to retpoline to track down in prep for starting the rebuild
<sbeattie> (documentation, double-checking upstream for bug fixes, etc)
<sbeattie> I need to prep a bit for the sprint next week
<sbeattie> that'll consume my week, surely. tyhicks, over to you
<tyhicks> thanks
 * xnox silently pings rbalint to read above status update.
<tyhicks> I've got sprint prep
<tyhicks> I'll be cleaning up any messes found with the switch to the new USN website today
<tyhicks> I need to finalize an LSM stacking demo
<tyhicks> I've got an embargoed issue
<tyhicks> I'll also be involved in the retpoline by default discussions/uploads/etc
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<tyhicks> oh, he's not around right now
<tyhicks> sarnold: go ahea
<sarnold> sorry, I missed this window entirely! :)
<sarnold> I'm on community, short week for me this weeke
<sarnold> I expect to review some apparmor patches, then return to brotli MIR, and responding to questions on the openjpeg2 bugs I opened
<sarnold> and I ought to try to rebuild my poor little pandaboard before the trip. I don't know how realistic that is :(
<sarnold> that's me, chrisccoulson? or ratliff_ if chrisccoulson is still out? (sorry, can't recall)
<ratliff_> vacation day for chris_ccoulson :)
<ratliff_> I'm in the happy place this week.
<ratliff_> I have sprint prep. I need to nurse the kpis along and touch up the tutorial. I have some internal tasks that I'm working on.
<ratliff_> leosilva: it's up to you
<leosilva> I'm bug triage this week.
<leosilva> I'm take a look in qpdf cves, some of them has just test as patch - weird.
<leosilva> besides that I'll to my hunting
<leosilva> tyhicks: it's back to you
<tyhicks> thanks!
<leosilva> s/to/do/
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team suggests that contributors look into merging Debian security updates in community-supported packages. If you would like to help Ubuntu but are not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so. See http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/d2u/ for available merges and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details on preparing Ubuntu security
<tyhicks> updates. If you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-hardened. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<tyhicks> jdstrand, mdeslaur, sbeattie, sarnold, ratliff, leosilva: Thanks!
<tyhicks> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Feb 26 16:53:30 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-02-26-16.33.moin.txt
<sarnold> thanks tyhicks!
<leosilva> tks tyhicks!
<sbeattie> tyhicks: thanks!
<ratliff_> thank you, tyhicks!
<mdeslaur> thanks tyhicks!
<jdstrand> tyhicks: thanks!
<tsimonq2> o/
<sil2100> o/
<bdmurray> o/
<tsimonq2> Maybe dmb-ping?
<tsimonq2> sil2100:
<tsimonq2> grr
<tsimonq2> et al
<tsimonq2> Maybe take this to the ML?
<cyphermox> what?
<tsimonq2> Oh hi, that's 3
<bdmurray> tsimonq2: grr? Didn't you just edit wiki page about your app today?
<sil2100> I guess we might have quorum for a meeting, right?
<tsimonq2> bdmurray: grr = I messed up mobile keyboard
<rbasak> I will have to run at any moment.
<tsimonq2> np
<bdmurray> tsimonq2: okay
<tsimonq2> bdmurray: I'm perfectly fine, I knew it was tight timing anyways :)
<sil2100> I'm a bit torn apart today, bdmurray, cyphermox - could one of you chair the meeting?
<cyphermox> ok
<micahg> I'm here as well
<cyphermox> #startmeeting Developer Membership Board
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Feb 26 19:10:54 2018 UTC.  The chair is cyphermox. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic:
<cyphermox> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items
<cyphermox> sil2100: to add budgie-extras to fossfreedom's PPU set
<cyphermox> ^ that's done, cool
<cyphermox> bdmurray: to handle mapreri's PPU-addition request
<bdmurray> I submitted a bug report to that special project, let me have a look at it.
<bdmurray> bug 1747093
<ubottu> bug 1747093 in ubuntu-community " [TB/DMB] Additional PPU for mapreri" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1747093
<bdmurray> I'll ping a TB member about it.
<mapreri> bad TB :>
<tsimonq2> heh
<cyphermox> alrighty
<cyphermox> #topic Package Set/Per Package Uploader Applications
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: Package Set/Per Package Uploader Applications
<cyphermox> tsimonq2: the one issue I see though is that typically we ask to have a week's lead time to be able to review the application before doing the DMB meeting
<tsimonq2> Yes, I understand.
<cyphermox> to be fair, let's make sure that's written down somewhere
<tsimonq2> It is, but it's a "should" ;)
<rbasak> It's documented already at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/ApplicationProcess
<rbasak> I don't think we need to have a strict policy on it, since we can vote with our...votes as needed.
<cyphermox> any DMB members here opposing the review today?
<micahg> I know there were some questions of viability of application by email already
<bdmurray> I thought rbasak had asked a question about the application.
<rbasak> I don't oppose, but I may end up being -1 subject to more information or time.
<rbasak> If indeed I'm here to vote.
<tsimonq2> bdmurray: That was solved I believe.
<rbasak> I am still struggling to understand exactly what is blocking on you not being able to upload these packages.
<bdmurray> tsimonq2: I think a response should have been sent to the original query even if it was addresed out of band.
<rbasak> I found three uploads. Are there any more?
<tsimonq2> There's four packages in main.
<tsimonq2> rbasak: Yes, there's quite a bit more.
<tsimonq2> bdmurray: Sure, apologies.
<rbasak> tsimonq2: your third table seems to have uploads that you performed without sponsorship.
<rbasak> Which is great for the DMB to review of course.
<rbasak> It's useful to have in the application.
<rbasak> But first I'd like to understand what you're being blocked in uploading.
<tsimonq2> I can't land the stack via the CI Train myself because four packages in the stack aree in main.
<rbasak> And the best way to demonstrate that is with a list of sponsored uploads, so we can see your work, what sorts of uploads they were, who sponsored them, etc.
<tsimonq2> Sure, I understand.
<tsimonq2> For uploads, mitya57 and LocutusOfBorg sponsor things for me nowadays.
<tsimonq2> (With Qt.)
<tsimonq2> It's a bit hard to see who pressed the button on Bileto but it's been one of them.
<rbasak> I found three uploads> FTR, I think three is fine for an experienced uploader helping with transitions etc.
<rbasak> I haven't decided how you fit with that for myself yet though, because I'm not sure I understand (yet) your existing contributions.
<tsimonq2> OK; ftr I helped with the 5.7.1, 5.9.0, 5.9.1, 5.9.2 transitions  in Debian and Ubuntu  and 5.9.3 and 5.9.4 in  Ubuntu only.
<tsimonq2> I did 5.9.3 and 5.9.4 myself, with 5.9.2 being mostly me
<tsimonq2> 5.9.0 was a joint effort.
<rbasak> OK, but what specifically did that involve for you in Ubuntu?
<tsimonq2> 5.9.2+ was merging from Debian or doing Ubuntu-specific uploads.
<tsimonq2> 5.9.2 was mostly syncs while 5.9.3+ is Ubuntu-only with the whole stack.
<tsimonq2> This also involved the normal transition stuff like no-change rebuilds, etc.
<tsimonq2> I did some work with 5.7 but that was *mostly* Mirv and mitya57, both of which have eendorsed my application.
<tsimonq2> Does that answer your questions?
<tsimonq2> For the record, this is 5.9.4: https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/311
<tsimonq2> er
<tsimonq2> https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3113
<tsimonq2> With the exception of one qttools upload, that was all me.
<tsimonq2> I'm not done yet either, qtwebengine is building and should be ready to land tobnight, as well as qtwebview.
<tsimonq2> *tonight
<tsimonq2> Is that all for questions? :)
<tsimonq2> (Hello?)
<rbasak> Can I see some diffs of what you actually uploaded to Ubuntu with sponsorship? I'm not sure how to get that.
<rbasak> (apart from the three I found)
<tsimonq2> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qtbase-opensource-src/5.9.3+dfsg-0ubuntu1
<tsimonq2> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qtsvg-opensource-src/5.9.3-0ubuntu1
<tsimonq2> I'm on mobile so it's taking me a bit, but the 5.9.3 transition was sponsored via Bil
<tsimonq2> *Bileto
<tsimonq2> I believe LocutusOfBorg did the review and pressed the button.
<tsimonq2> 5.9.2 should be similar
<tsimonq2> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qtbase-opensource-src/5.9.2+dfsg-4ubuntu1
<tsimonq2> etc.
<tsimonq2> Would you like me to find additional uploads?
<bdmurray> I personally need some more time to review specifically the diffs rbasak is requesting.
<tsimonq2> Sure, no problem.
 * LocutusOfBorg is here in case you want some answer
<tsimonq2> You can also find a lot on the ubuntu+1 branches of  the packages here: https://salsa.debian.org/qt-kde-team/qt//
<bdmurray> To be clear I mean more time than I think we have in this meeting.
<tsimonq2> Alright, no problem at all.
<tsimonq2> Does the rest of the DMB concur?
<rbasak> I agree with bdmurray
<rbasak> Could you update your application so that we have a link to sponsored Ubuntu diffs please?
<tsimonq2> Alright. Can we continue this on the mailing list then? Thd d
<rbasak> Yeah
<rbasak> Continue on the ML, and we'll schedule another meeting when we're ready.
<tsimonq2> Sure.
<tsimonq2> Thanks everyone,
<rbasak> That diff is one of the three I had found :)
<tsimonq2> OK ;)
<cyphermox> bdmurray: alright
<bdmurray> tsimonq2: So to ease the process I think you could provide us specific links to diffs showing your work.
<cyphermox> there's a core dev app for next month, yikes
<cyphermox> let's go the rest of this review on the ML, though
<tsimonq2> bdmurray: Sure.
<cyphermox> #topic AOB?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: AOB?
<bdmurray> Going back in time - I goofed about the PPU request and didn't email the TB.
<bdmurray> I'll fix that today.
<mapreri> put an #action to review my ppu bug next time again?
<cyphermox> mapreri: alrady there.
<cyphermox> #action bdmurray to email the TB about mapreri's PPU.
<meetingology> ACTION: bdmurray to email the TB about mapreri's PPU.
<cyphermox> anything else?
<mapreri> ta :)
<bdmurray> I don't think so.
 * rbasak has to run
<cyphermox> ok, let's wrap this up
<cyphermox> who's next chair?
<sil2100> I can
<cyphermox> ack
<cyphermox> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Feb 26 19:47:53 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-02-26-19.10.moin.txt
<cyphermox> thanks everyone!
<bdmurray> cyphermox: thank you for chairing
<sil2100> Thanks!
<mapreri> bdmurray: can't you just add ~techboard to the bug subscribers?
<tsimonq2> bdmurray: Er, so uploads that I have upload access to and were sponsored + stuff in main, or just stuff in main?
<sil2100> cyphermox: thanks for chairing :)
<tsimonq2> Thanks everyone! Much appreciated :)
<bdmurray> mapreri: That's not what our documentation regarding the process says.
<mapreri> bdmurray: ok (just to me it feels weird to file a bug the target people won't receive and then manually mail *shrug*)
<bdmurray> tsimonq2: uploads which you have had sponsored for the four additional packages for which you are requesting upload rights
<tsimonq2> bdmurray: Sure, will do, thanks!
<rbasak> bdmurray, mapreri: it's not in the process because we can't actually do it (ACL restriction).
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-02-27
<bdmurray> mapreri: You are all set now.
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-03-01
<rbalint> fyi: unattended-upgrades is planned to allow installing from -updates in addition to -security by default: https://github.com/mvo5/unattended-upgrades/pull/100
 * slangasek waves
<philroche> \o
<rcj> o]
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Mar  1 16:00:28 2018 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<Odd_Bloke> |o|
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<gaughen> o/
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e slangasek bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity cyphermox mwhudson rcj philroche Odd_Bloke tribaal fginther juliank)
<slangasek> fginther Odd_Bloke bdmurray juliank sil2100 philroche doko infinity rcj cyphermox mwhudson slangasek xnox tdaitx rbalint tribaal
<slangasek> fginther: ?
<tdaitx_> nice, I got time to make some coffee
<Odd_Bloke> I can go.
<Odd_Bloke> * Continued refactoring of internal codebases to support minimal images
<Odd_Bloke> * Preparation for engineering sprint next week
<Odd_Bloke> * Preparation for partner visits in the two weeks after that
<Odd_Bloke> * Switched GCE artful image publication to our new build system
<Odd_Bloke> * Removed unscd from the Azure bionic images, we're replacing it with the built-in systemd-resolved
<Odd_Bloke> * Various other small bits for partners
<Odd_Bloke> (done)
<bdmurray> SRU team duties
<bdmurray> merged my changelog changes for partner images
<bdmurray> investigated retracer workload (created a couple of cards w/ ideas)
<bdmurray> sponsored xenial patch for LP: #1652641
<bdmurray> investigated, tested update-manager details & conf prompt window size
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1652641 in apt-xapian-index (Ubuntu Xenial) "crash in indexer.py, AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'unlink'" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1652641
<bdmurray> uploaded fix for update-manager config file prompt size (LP: #1689668)
<bdmurray> uploaded fix for update-manager details window size (LP: #1690541)
<bdmurray> struggled to figure out LP: #1752053 was causing by desktop issues
<bdmurray> wrote a bug pattern for LP: #1705345 (consolidated duplicates too)
<bdmurray> tested some mini.iso installation issues
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1689668 in aptdaemon (Ubuntu Artful) "dialog to resolve config file conflicts can be only one line high" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1689668
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1690541 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "Scrolled windows in update-manager are too small to read" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1690541
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1752053 in nvidia-graphics-drivers-390 (Ubuntu) "nvidia-390 fails to boot graphical display" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1752053
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1705345 in plymouth (Ubuntu) "Installing packages hangs on plymouth --ping" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1705345
<bdmurray> done
<bdmurray> juliank:
<slangasek> sil2100:
<sil2100> - SRU reviews and releases
<sil2100> - Kernel SRU reviews and releases
<sil2100> - NEW reviews of pyxs and rax-nova-agent
<sil2100> - 16.04.4
<sil2100> (done)
<philroche> * Cloud image build system maintenance
<philroche> * Completed EOL process for Zesty on major public clouds
<philroche> (done)
<slangasek> doko is off
<slangasek> infinity is off
<slangasek> rcj:
<xnox> philroche, whoop whoop
<rcj> present
<rcj> HIGHLIGHT: Migrated Google Compute Engine images to use default gzip compression for initramfs for all releases.  This reverts the customization from bug #1527405 that used XZ for compression.  This change improves boot time.
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 1527405 could not be found
<rcj> * Cloud-image design work for new publication tooling.
<rcj> * Debugging work for cloud-image boot failure due to grub config issue.
<rcj> (done)
<rcj> cyphermox:
<cyphermox> - netplan:
<cyphermox>   - rework routing
<cyphermox>   - autopkgtests!
<cyphermox>   - various bugfixing (bridge prio, NM snap support, etc.)
<cyphermox> - systemd
<cyphermox>   - post-review PR fixes
<cyphermox> (done)
<xnox> ubottu, i think you should still generate links, even if the bug is not found, cause you know - some people can see private bugs....
<ubottu> xnox: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<slangasek>  * was off on Tuesday, swap for the upcoming travel
<slangasek>  * work on resolving migrations stuck in -proposed
<slangasek>  * autopkgtest queue nudging
<slangasek>  * discussions about gnupg pulling lots of extra stuff into minimal
<slangasek>  * discussions around archive rebuilds for spectre v2
<slangasek> (done)
<slangasek> xnox:
<nacc> xnox: it's a LP thing (iirc) -- you can't distinguish between non-existent and not-visible bugs without auth
<xnox> uploading things to transition ruby2.5 as only ruby
<xnox> uploading new releases / patches for z14 crypto support
<xnox> uploaded new powerpc-utils
<xnox> uploaded livecd-rootfs, which builds multi-lowerdir overlayfs squashfs for maas installation in subiquity (something similar maybe used for desktop-minimal in the future too, Laney didrocks
<xnox> test point release s390x images
<xnox> done
<nacc> xnox: i guess the link is the same regardless
<tdaitx_> * OpenJDK 9 as default JDK
<tdaitx_>   - patching, tracking status on debian, rebuilding
<tdaitx_>   - moved to stage 2, same failures as stage 1
<tdaitx_>   - armhf is unstable, got a few intermittent segfaults and rebuilding eventually fixes those
<tdaitx_> * OpenJDK 8 & 7 security updates
<tdaitx_>   - Planned to ship 8 to the security team today
<tdaitx_>   - OpenJDK 7 still requires some work, few patches no long apply cleanly (ongoing)
<tdaitx_> (done)
<xnox> nacc, yeah, there are bugs/# url that should always work.
<slangasek> rbalint:
<slangasek> tribaal:
<tribaal> * CVE tracking
<tribaal> * Vanguard for a 3rd week in a row. Send valium plz.
<tribaal> * Sent code to snapcraft to enable LXD profiles in cleanbuild (https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/1969)
<tribaal> (done)
<fginther> * Developing automated testing and publication updates for a partner cloud
<fginther> * Reviewing design proposal for improved satellite cloud publication
<fginther> * Helped debug a publication issue
<fginther> (done)
<slangasek> any questions?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
<slangasek> [LINK] http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<bdmurray> we are taking on bug 1385524 correct?
<ubottu> bug 1385524 in update-manager (Ubuntu Bionic) "[SRU] update-manager-text crashes in all supported releases" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1385524
<slangasek> yes
<bdmurray> bug 1751011 is new
<ubottu> bug 1751011 in bash (Ubuntu) "bash crashes in qemu-user environments (bionic)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1751011
<xnox> do we even support qemu-user.....
<slangasek> bdmurray: that one seems like it's just a merge?
<slangasek> xnox: generally no
<xnox> yeah, a merge
<slangasek> but it seems to be a trivial merge
<rbalint> o/
 * xnox ponders if i can just upload it
<slangasek> hmm the solution was to drop building with -pie
<bdmurray> Ah, yeah I'd looked at that.
<slangasek> do we want a no-pie bash in order to support qemu-user?
<slangasek> bdmurray: I'd decline this one
<bdmurray> slangasek: ack
<bdmurray> Jean-Baptiste reported bug 1751252
<ubottu> bug 1751252 in glib2.0 (Ubuntu) "ubiquity crashed with signal 5 in _XEventsQueued()" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1751252
<cpaelzer> xnox: qemu-user* is universe - and best effort + community support
<slangasek> invalid literal for int() - ugh
<slangasek> probably locale-dependent
<xnox> slangasek, maybe you should remove it from -proposed then....
<slangasek> and yeah, seems we should take that
<slangasek> xnox: done. :P
<slangasek> anything else on bugs?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else?
 * sil2100 is fine
<slangasek> oh
<slangasek> rbalint: did you want to give status?
<slangasek> guess not
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Mar  1 16:30:19 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-03-01-16.00.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks, all
<sil2100> o/
<elopio> ahoneybun: flexiondotorg: wxl: jose: marcoceppi: we meet in 15 minutes.
<elopio> ahoneybun: flexiondotorg: wxl: jose: marcoceppi: elacheche: everybody here?
 * elacheche is here
<wxl> ok now i'm here
<flexiondotorg> o/
<elopio> alright, lets start
<elopio> #startmeeting Community Council meeting, 20180301
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Mar  1 17:11:56 2018 UTC.  The chair is elopio. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Community Council meeting, 20180301 | Current topic:
<elopio> We start the meeting with elacheche, wxl, flexiondotorg and elopio present. marcoceppi, ahoneybun and jose missing.
<elopio> #topic report since last meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Community Council meeting, 20180301 | Current topic: report since last meeting
<elopio> Anybody has work in progress that we discussed on the previous meetings?
<elacheche> I collected the list of ressources we have, unfortunately, I didn't had time to analyse and ask about our need of those.. The draft is in here â https://pad.tn/p/cc
<elacheche> we can move it somewhere else later for a final repport for future CC members (and us)
<wxl> we can remove the GSoC app. too late for that.
<elopio> elacheche: thanks. Why don't you make it a wiki post on the community hub? Also, do you need help to finish this task?
<elopio> wxl: yep, didn't happen. Which I think was a good call, we need some time to rest from all the mentoring earlier in the year. Maybe, for next year, we can apply together with debian.
<elacheche> elopio: I will do that on the Wiki or the Hub once it's done, so we can have a final article about this in there.. And yes I need your personnal feedback (all CC folks) about the use of those ressources and why not we add a priority usage rating
<elacheche> We have multiple Wiki legacy pages, we can learn from those I guess.. But all new activities were moved to the hub (I don't like it, I like wiki more, but after all that's a personnal pref)
<elopio> elacheche: yes, we agreed in previous meetings to give a try to the hub. We can still discuss about it if you want, but for now, we should follow that and put everything there.
<elopio> I'm concerned about those 70 wiki pages, that's a lot to review. I can give you a hand with that, see what's old and we can drop, and what would be useful to update.
<elopio> anything else to talk about related to work in progress?
<elopio> I will take that as a no.
<ahoneybun> no
<elopio> since we don't have any topics on the agenda, flexiondotorg, elacheche and wxl, if you have something to discuss, please say so.
<elopio> I would like to talk a little about these meetings
<flexiondotorg> Not from me
<wxl> i would agree with that idea
<elopio> lets start with that, and you can add other topics as we go.
<elopio> #topic community council meetings
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Community Council meeting, 20180301 | Current topic: community council meetings
<elopio> we tried rotating the role of the person who leads the meetings every month. That didn't happen very well, not just because of the leaders, but also because we have had a hard time adjusting since the christmas holidays.
<wxl> i don't think having leaders is the problem
<elopio> unless somebody else wants to take this role, I will keep doing it.
<elopio> and at any time, if somebody thinks we should go back to rotate, or try a different approach, just say it and I will step down.
<wxl> i think the bigger issue is getting everyone to show up
<wxl> or even communicate that they're not going to show up
<elopio> yes, that's what I want to talk about next.
<elopio> This time I made a small change on the template with the call for the meeting.
<flexiondotorg> I'm happy to contribute more to the running of these meetings.
<elopio> it's very boring to be pinging everybody every day as the meeting approaches. So I would like all of us to reply on that topic saying if you are going to come, or not.
<flexiondotorg> I've been busy in recent months.
<flexiondotorg> I think getting up front commitment to attend is a good idea.
<wxl> i think the assumption should be that you WILL show up and the responsibility will be on the person who is not showing up to make sure everyone knows
<wxl> this only makes sense
<wxl> i don't call into work every day and confirm with them that i'm coming in. do you guys?
<elopio> flexiondotorg: what kind of contribution would you like to do? Taking the leader role? something else?
<flexiondotorg> Perhaps we could automate a reminder for the CC members.
<flexiondotorg> elopio: Yeah, chairing the meeting from time to time and getting back to updating the Community Hub.
<elopio> wxl: my problem is that I don't know if you are not replying because you didn't get the message, or because all's good and you are going to attend
<elacheche> wxl: +1
<wxl> elopio: this is why we need to set the expectations
<elopio> evidence shows that it's neither of those. So in order to see who I need to ping, it's easier for now while we get this under control to get an explicit yes or no.
<wxl> and the expectation, as members of the council, is that we will attend the meetings
<elopio> wxl: I agree on that
<wxl> so *WE* shouldn't have to do anything to accomodate people not showing up
<elopio> but if we get repeated "no" replies, or "yes" replies but no-show in the end, we can start doing something about it
<wxl> those people who can't show up need to make it clear that they can't
<elopio> find a replacement, for example.
<wxl> the yes/no replies don't really matter so much as the actual attendance
<elopio> wxl: it matters for who is trying to organize the meeting.
<wxl> i frankly find it a little silly that we're even discussing this. we are all adults here, right? we show up to the things that we need to show up at and inform affected parties otherwise?
<wxl> elopio: what difference would it make?
<elopio> wxl: that's my expectation, but it's not working like that.
<elopio> wxl: if you say "no", and give a reason, I don't have to continue pinging you all week.
<wxl> but you shoudln't have to in the first place
<wxl> that should be a reasonable expectation
<wxl> this is not a huge team of which we are small outside contributors to. this is a core team of core people. we should consider it crucial to be there
<elopio> I agree. But we are not there. We are not working that well as a group to trust that everybody will just show up and participate on the meeting.
<wxl> here's my suggestion: email the list. let everyone know that the expectation is that they will be there. their presence is a requirement for continued membership on the council. then it will work great, i assure you.
<elacheche> wxl, elopio I think that both of you are right.. The idea of asking for a Yes or No and see if that answer goes with the attendency rate can be useful for doing some stats about this issue and have some real "data".. And maybe the next step should be doing stats about topics progress, because this is an issue too (I know I am being part of this issue :'( but the truth should be said anyways)
<wxl> as a general rule, you have at least shown up enough to say you couldn't be there, elacheche.
<elopio> wxl: so, let's set some rules to that. Say, one missed meeting without giving a reason means you are out of the council and we will find a replacement. Something like that?
<ahoneybun> the meetings are on my calendar but I don't get a notification to remind me so I need to fix that
<wxl> ahoneybun: yeah, i'd say that's a personal problem not one for the council :)
<wxl> elopio: yes
<elopio> works for me.
<elopio> elacheche: flexiondotorg: ahoneybun: do you agree?
<elacheche> wxl: honestly,  I don't care if my past self shared the info that he'll be here or not, but if he didn't attend "enough" meetings and didn't contribute to tasks in progress my present self should be excluded from the CC.. And it's good to have stats to know that and help improving things, even if it will lead to exclude myself from the board :)
<ahoneybun> cross that it's not on my calendar at all
<ahoneybun> idk the fridge calendar is broken for me or something.
<flexiondotorg> elopio: Agree with what, ejecting people for not showing up?
<wxl> elacheche: that's fair. the work does need to get done and there's only a few of us. maybe 4 excused absences and you're out?
<ahoneybun> elopio, I don't agree. One time is a bit strong
<elopio> flexiondotorg: not showing up without giving us a reason ahead of time.
<flexiondotorg> Seems reasonable.
<elopio> ahoneybun: the following meetings of the year are already scheduled. I think the least we can expect is people saying *all* the times if they are not going to come.
<elopio> that's not a lot to ask.
<wxl> one time unexecused is perfectly reasonable
<wxl> there's a higher amount for execused absences
<flexiondotorg> Three strikes?
<elopio> sounds good to me too.
<wxl> over what time period, too?
<flexiondotorg> Per year?
<wxl> i think the 1 unexecused absence should be regardless of time but there should be a time associated with the excused ones
<elopio> flexiondotorg: I would prefer 6 months.
<wxl> flexiondotorg: that allows someone to be excused every 2 months
<flexiondotorg> I think we should have a higher upper limit for excused absence.
<flexiondotorg> I was thinking about unexcused absence.
<wxl> i think 3/12 months
<elopio> so, wait, lets make full sentences, because this is confusing :)
<wxl> hahahha
 * elacheche agrees with any ratio..
<elopio> flexiondotorg: are you proposing to allow 1 unexcused absense per year?
<wxl> i think we do a huge amount of our work in these meetings. they're crucial. we only have 24 of them a year.
 * ahoneybun feels likes he is in high school again.
<flexiondotorg> I was thinking 3 unexcused absence per year.
<wxl> we have to keep in mind that even missing 3 of those is pretty dramatic
<flexiondotorg> Because is demonstrates a trend of not turning up.
<wxl> ahoneybun: ditto. people not showing up is SO high school
<elopio> flexiondotorg: no, that's too much. You can excuse yourself 10 minutes before the meeting starts. But if you don't excuse yourself at all, that makes us waste a lot of time.
<ahoneybun> I've missed a few because I depend on notifications but I think I've fixed it now.
<ahoneybun> I don't like having to use the Hub to say "Here"
<ahoneybun> I never go to the Hub anyway
<elopio> ahoneybun: we need you in the hub.
<wxl> ahoneybun: then come to irc. or use the mailing list. you have lots of options
<ahoneybun> elopio, for? I do
<elopio> but you can tell the leader directly, no need to post.
<elacheche> ahoneybun: It's not about us (you or me or anyone else).. We as a board should make a such decision of ourselves and for future board.. We see a problem we fix it :)
<elopio> ahoneybun: we are trying to build the hub, and we need the help of everybody on the council for that.
<wxl> i couldn't agree with elacheche more
<ahoneybun> I don't use forums often.
<elopio> ahoneybun: we need you to post about your tasks in there.
<ahoneybun> my tasks?
 * elacheche really hate the HUB because people can't edit his posts and help improving them :D x) :p â Wiki ROCKS
<elopio> Yes, the things you do as part of the council to improve the community. But that's a different topic. If you disagree on using the hub, you should bring that to discussion on the next meeting
<wxl> can we stay on the topic of these rules  for the time being?
<elopio> elacheche: saying that you hate the hub all the time doesn't help either :) We noted it when we discussed, and agree to give it a try anyway.
<ahoneybun> are we close to deciding on the rules for showing up?
<elopio> I think we have a disagreement
<elopio> wxl, elacheche and I agreed to be zero tolerant to not showing up without giving an excuse before
<elopio> ahoneybun and flexiondotorg think we should allow a few of those.
<elopio> is that right?
<ahoneybun> at least 1.
<wxl> i would concede to one throughout one's entire term
<flexiondotorg> We can make posts in the Hub "wiki posts"
<elopio> I'm ok with one.
<elopio> flexiondotorg: do you agree with one instead of three?
<ahoneybun> 1 out of 48 meetings.
<ahoneybun> 1/24 x 2
<elopio> yes.
<flexiondotorg> People make mistakes. I think one transgression only is too strict.
<ahoneybun> what about 2 per term?
<flexiondotorg> A term being 2 years, right?
<ahoneybun> yes
<flexiondotorg> I think 2 per year, as a minimum.
<elopio> I can live with that. wxl?
<flexiondotorg> So four over the course of the 2 year term.
<elopio> elacheche says he agrees with any ration, so I'm assuming he's +1 on this.
<elopio> *ratio
<wxl> let's go for the middle road: 3/term
<elacheche> Yep.. The idea is that WE ALL agree about the same principale :)
<elopio> lol, wxl we were so close to agree to 2/term
<elopio> alright, 3 per term. flexiondotorg proposed that so he's happy, I'm ok, elacheche and wxl seem to be +1 too. ahoneybun ?
<ahoneybun> +1
<elacheche> Great!
<elopio> #AGREED we will look for a replacement for whoever is absent to the community council meeting 3 times during their term
<elopio> #agreed we will look for a replacement for whoever is absent to the community council meeting 3 times during their term
<elacheche> +42
<flexiondotorg> Agreed.
<elopio> damn, that command doesn't work.
<elopio> ok. I will communicate this to the mailing list.
<wxl> it should go on the hub too
<elopio> and the hub, where I will post the summary of this meeting
<elopio> I have another proposal. Just showing up is not enough. I would like everybody to come at least with one topic to discuss or report to make, per month.
<elopio> how does that sound? We can't enforce that, but sounds to me like a reasonable expectation, we should all be doing something every month.
<elacheche> +1 too
<ahoneybun> expectation not requirement.
<wxl> i agree with expectation rather than requirement
<ahoneybun> anyone else?
<elopio> yes. We will have stats to collect looking at the agendas, to confront somebody who is only attending the meetings, without doing any useful work. It's just something that will trigger us discussing if that person should continue on the council, not something that will expell them immediately.
<ahoneybun> I think useful work is bringing their POV to a problem and offering a solution.
<ahoneybun> Not always bringing something to do.
<elopio> ahoneybun: not enough. We should expect a lot more than that.
<ahoneybun> mm.
<elopio> and I'm sure there's other people in the community who are willing to work more than just attending a meeting twice a month.
<wxl> i think we should write all this up
<wxl> so people know what it means to be on the council
<elopio> I think we need to realize that if we are not doing a good job on the council, we need to step down and let somebody else replace us.
<wxl> +1 elopio
<elacheche> +1 elopio
<elopio> I think this is just food for thought now. We have one strong rule defined now: attending the meetings. We can continue discussing about the role and expectations, and write them down as wxl suggests.
<ahoneybun> agreed
<elopio> maybe, topic for next meeting: bring your expectations from your council peers? We can discuss them and see if we agree on a few.
<ahoneybun> add it to the hub.
<wxl> i think that's a reasonable idea, elopio
<elopio> I have nothing else to discuss. Any other topic ahoneybun, wxl, elacheche, flexiondotorg?
<ahoneybun> nope.
<elopio> 10...
<flexiondotorg> Not this time.
<elopio> 9...
<elopio> 8...
<elopio> 7...
<elopio> 6...
<elopio> 5...
<elopio> 4...
<flexiondotorg> But I have an idea, for next meeting.
<elopio> go for it flexiondotorg
<flexiondotorg> Next time :-)
<wxl> mine might be for next meeting too
<elopio> ah, ok, make sure to add it to the agenda
<wxl> or we need to schedule a time to work on it specifically
<elopio> 3...
<elopio> 2...
<elopio> 1...
<wxl> and that's frmo the last agenda i put together: going over CoC bugs
<elopio> I will prepare the next meeting, unless somebody else wants to lead that one. If so, just ping me any time.
<elopio> thank you for coming, and making proposals, and discussing!
<elopio> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Mar  1 18:12:10 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-03-01-17.11.moin.txt
<bashfulrobot> Good day everyone.
<bashfulrobot> Just popping in for my Ubuntu membership interview. Standing by as needed.
<fossfreedom> very quiet!
<tsimonq2> Heyo
<tsimonq2> wxl etc. where you at?
<wxl> i'm here :)
<tsimonq2> Y'all chairing or am I?
<popey> o/
<wxl> not it
<bashfulrobot> It is. ha ha elacheche is checking out who is around and once we have 4 members - the meeting will begin.
<tsimonq2> Fine then, I call dibs on chairing
<tsimonq2> wxl: What's quorum?
<bashfulrobot> Well I could chair - but somehow that does not seem appropriate. :-)
<tsimonq2> ;D
<wxl> you know, honestly, i have no freaking idea. but 4 sounds good :)
<tsimonq2> Sounds good to me. elacheche, you still around? :)
<elacheche> tsimonq2: wxl it is 4.. It was always 4 :D
<bashfulrobot> the minimum number of members of an assembly or society that must be present at any of its meetings to make the proceedings of that meeting valid.
<wxl> according to the documention, we tend to follow Robert's Rules http://www.dummies.com/careers/business-skills/roberts-rules-for-defining-a-quorum/
<tsimonq2> OK :D
<bashfulrobot> yeahhh - I had to look it up for hte proper def.
<wxl> i intend to have the cc more clearly define this in the future
<elacheche> We need one more board member
<tsimonq2> Sec, let me RTFM on how to do this again XD
<wxl> it's too darn vague
<wxl> popey's here, elacheche
<tsimonq2> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Mar  1 20:07:00 2018 UTC.  The chair is tsimonq2. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<tsimonq2> #topic bashfulrobot
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: bashfulrobot
<tsimonq2> Hi
<bashfulrobot> Hello
<tsimonq2> Please introduce yourself.
<tsimonq2> bashfulrobot: Hello? :)
<bashfulrobot> Well, I am Dustin Krysak located in Canada. I have been a member of the Ubuntu Budgie team since Nov-Dec of 2016. I come from an operations background (and a consumer of Linux). I had wanted to get involved with the OSS aspect to become a contributor to somethign I have used for a long time.
<bashfulrobot> Currently I am also involved in the snacrafters community as well, both in the forum as well as interacting with project maintainers to hopefully introduce or assist with snap packaging.
<bashfulrobot> In the past I have also volunteered on the release management for the alpha/betas (17.10 +) as well.
<tsimonq2> OK, cool! Can you please share a link to your wiki and LP page?
<bashfulrobot> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/bashfulrobot
<bashfulrobot> https://launchpad.net/~bashfulrobot
<tsimonq2> Alright, any questions from the board?
<elacheche> I like the tesimonials  :)
<elacheche> bashfulrobot: I'd like to know if you're involved with the LoCo?
<tsimonq2> (or any other comments etc., I saw fossfreedom earlier :) )
<bashfulrobot> Yes I appreciate everyone who took the time to do so (THANK YOU!)
<elacheche> It would be great if a contributor like you helps in the LoCo too :D
<popey> hi bashfulrobot
<popey> bashfulrobot: tell us a bit about how things are going in Ubuntu Budgie land
<tsimonq2> ^
<bashfulrobot> I am not yet involved with the loco, but had reached out the members as it seems to have gone dormant to a degree. Where I have done work locally is with our local linux desktop LUG. I have recently been added as a co-host, but previously had done a talk on Ubuntu Budgie.
<tsimonq2> Nice!
<elacheche> Good, the LoCo should not be different from the LUG :) Yes, we have LoCos activity issues :) So contributions to LoCos should be always needed and apreciated :)
<tsimonq2> Agreed!
<wxl> bashfulrobot: you're going to be at lfnw this year?
<tsimonq2> ^^^^
<bashfulrobot> Well, my perception is that we are slowly growing. As one of the newer flavours, there are always things we can do to help herald that in the right direction. Some of the items can be welcomed challenges (not having a developer background), but very interesting. I like having the exposure the larger Ubuntu ecosystem (and hope to get more involved there). Our LTS application is in progress pending final
<bashfulrobot> approval by the TB. So we are moving forward nice and steady.
<tsimonq2> I will be
<bashfulrobot> As for the Loco - I have been thinking about attempting to merg it in some capacity if applicable.
<elacheche> :)
<tsimonq2> Alright, anything else before we vote, everyone?
<bashfulrobot> wxl: I will be at LFNW this year. I fact tsimonq2 have been discussing doing some planning and working on a few things while we are both there. While not officially part of hte booth plan to offer assistance as well.
 * elacheche is ready to vote :)
<wxl> bashfulrobot: cool. we should try to coordinate
<bashfulrobot> if you are there, would love to!
<popey> bashfulrobot: do you have any big plans for ubuntu budgie, or is it more slow-and-steady?
<tsimonq2> #voters wxl tsimonq2 elacheche popey
<meetingology> Current voters: elacheche popey tsimonq2 wxl
<wxl> +1 great work; keep it up!
<wxl> oops
<popey> hang on
<wxl> too jumpy
 * tsimonq2 is waiting on bashfulrobot to answer popey ;)
<tsimonq2> Oh, should also set this...
<tsimonq2> #votesrequired 4
<meetingology> votes now need 4 to be passed
<tsimonq2> bashfulrobot: hi :)
<bashfulrobot> Well there is a small consideration with Budgie in the longer term. If you consider upstream has started work on the version 11 of the desktop, there is going to be a lot of work there. Efforts (this is my opinion - Other team members may see it differently) are going to need to ramp up there to get to a sane baseline. And with that come a lot of decisions for the applications, how our community will
<bashfulrobot> react to the chang from GTK to QT. So while I say slow and steady - that is more of a self-assessment vs. a project assessment. Being rather new to the overall developer related tasks and hte community I have a slight ramp up time. In newer tasks vs someone who has worked withing the larger ecosystem.
<bashfulrobot> Sorry -was typing
<bashfulrobot> well spell correcting. :-)
<tsimonq2> It's all good :)
<tsimonq2> I think that's fair, thanks
<popey> :)
<popey> I'm good.
<popey> Thanks bashfulrobot
<bashfulrobot> But with that ramp up time and as I formulate relationships with other contributors - I know there is nothing but improvement (on my part) coming. And hopefully more cross project collab.
<tsimonq2> #vote bashfulrobot's Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: bashfulrobot's Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<elacheche> +1 Good work bashfulrobot :)
<meetingology> +1 Good work bashfulrobot :) received from elacheche
<tsimonq2> +1 keep up the awesome work, I hope tosee you around :D
<meetingology> +1 keep up the awesome work, I hope tosee you around :D received from tsimonq2
<tsimonq2> *ahem* wxl ;)
<popey> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from popey
<popey>  /kick wxl
<elacheche> :)
<wxl> +1 great work; keep it up!
<meetingology> +1 great work; keep it up! received from wxl
<wxl> sorry work called me away
<tsimonq2> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: bashfulrobot's Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<tsimonq2> Congrats!
<bashfulrobot> Thank yo uall!
<kyrofa> Congratulations bashfulrobot, you deserve it :)
<fossfreedom> well done bashfulrobot
<elacheche> Congrats bashfulrobot :)
<bashfulrobot> Appreciate the feedback.
<tsimonq2> #topic AOB?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB?
<bashfulrobot> And invite critique for improvement if you see me floating around in the community.
<tsimonq2> Anything else, y'all?
<tsimonq2> bashfulrobot: :D
<bashfulrobot> Are there any next steps or action items on my side of th efence for this process?
<bashfulrobot> (runnig nto the wiki)
<tsimonq2> I can catch up with you in a bit
<tsimonq2> AOB...
<tsimonq2> 10
<tsimonq2> 9
<tsimonq2> 8
<popey> Keep doing what you're doing :)
<tsimonq2> 7
<bashfulrobot> ok. Sounds good.
<tsimonq2> 6
<popey> That's your action item :)
<tsimonq2> 5
<tsimonq2> 4
<tsimonq2> 3
<bashfulrobot> ha ha - done!!
<tsimonq2> 2
<tsimonq2> 1
<tsimonq2> :D
<tsimonq2> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Mar  1 20:31:48 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-03-01-20.07.moin.txt
<bashfulrobot> Have a good day / evening everyone.
<tsimonq2> +1 popey :)
<tsimonq2> You too!
<bashfulrobot> Thank you kyrofa, fossfreedom, tsimonq2, elacheche !
<tsimonq2> Thank YOU!
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-02-25
<slashd> o/
<tsimonq2> Hello!
<slashd> do we have something to discuss ?
<cyphermox> I don't know
<cyphermox> fwiw my action is done
<tsimonq2> We do
<tsimonq2> Granting ~lubuntu-dev upload permissions.
<cyphermox> tsimonq2: I'm not sure why ~lubuntu-countil is in the team, sounds like it shouldn't be
<tsimonq2> cyphermox: It's a temporary measure.
<cyphermox> I don't see why it needs to be in at all
<cyphermox> it's definitely not going to work with having ~lubuntu-dev upload permissions
<tsimonq2> gilir is the owner of the LP group and ~lubuntu-council is in the team at the moment for bus factor.
<cyphermox> I still don't understand
<cyphermox> gilir owning the team isn't necessarily a blocker. If he can't be reached, there's a way to request the ownership to be changed
<cyphermox> OTOH, I don't think it's necessarily a given that a council member is also a developer
<cyphermox> (certainly doesn't seem to be the case for other flavours)
<tsimonq2> It was not planned to keep it this way if upload permissions were granted
<tsimonq2> It's a temporary stopgap measure before ownership is transferred
<cyphermox> well, I guess the point is, I would personally prefer that the teams are all properly set before we do any permissions changes (well, before the TB does)
<cyphermox> no objection to lubuntu-dev being a delegated team though, that makes total sense
<tsimonq2> Well, I would like to vote on it :)
<tsimonq2> I understand
<cyphermox> well, do we need to is also my question, because if we're all in agreement there is no real use in voting :)
<tsimonq2> I don't want to act unilaterally before giving DMB members time to voice any concerns
<cyphermox> sure sure.
<cyphermox> so, anyone objects?
<cyphermox> tsimonq2: also, since ~l-council is admin, can't it change the ownership already?
<cyphermox> or are you waiting for a council meeting before you do that?
<tsimonq2> Nope, only owners can transfer ownership
<cyphermox> tsimonq2: or launchpad admins, if you make your case
<tsimonq2> Right
<tsimonq2> I forget if I have to file an RT or if I can just ping on #launchpad
<jbicha> voting sounds reasonable. It's been several years since we've had a new delegated team with ability to ability their own members.
<cyphermox> it's usually a good idea to file the RT so it's tracked
<tsimonq2> Right, audit logs and such
<tsimonq2> jbicha: I don't think it would hurt
<cyphermox> jbicha: we've already reached the point where the time effect is moot, but typically if there's consensus, voting is extra
<tsimonq2> ok
<cyphermox> the logs aren't any different, they're just text
<cyphermox> well, if someone wants to start it..
<tsimonq2> [ACTION] tsimonq2 to file RT transferring ownership of ~lubuntu-dev, deactivate ~lubuntu-council, ask TB to do ACL change
<tsimonq2> :P
<jbicha> I don't think we started a meetingâ¦
<cyphermox> #startmeeting Developer Membership Board
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Feb 25 19:23:28 2019 UTC.  The chair is cyphermox. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic:
<cyphermox> #topic ~lubuntu-dev delegated team
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: ~lubuntu-dev delegated team
<cyphermox> tsimonq2: you want to summarize for the logs?
<cyphermox> then I'll start the vote
<cyphermox> slashd: around?
<tsimonq2> Sure.
<cyphermox> rbasak isn't
<slashd> cyphermox, yep
<jbicha> oh, we're voting after all?
<cyphermox> well since you all seem to need it :P
<jbicha> I wasn't going to call us for us to have a vote on whether to have a vote ð
<tsimonq2> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2019-February/001319.html - tl;dr Lubuntu is asking for ~lubuntu-dev to be granted upload permissions to the `lubuntu` packageset.
<tsimonq2> :D
<cyphermox> tsimonq2: sounds like a great summary :)
<cyphermox> #vote ~lubuntu-dev to be granted delegated control over lubuntu packageset (new delegated team)
<meetingology> Please vote on: ~lubuntu-dev to be granted delegated control over lubuntu packageset (new delegated team)
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<tsimonq2> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from tsimonq2
<cyphermox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
<jbicha> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from jbicha
<slashd> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from slashd
<cyphermox> no sil2100 either
<cyphermox> and no micahg.
<cyphermox> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: ~lubuntu-dev to be granted delegated control over lubuntu packageset (new delegated team)
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<cyphermox> that was quorate anyway
<cyphermox> now; one issue is that I'm not sure if we're supposed to decide if we can delegate directly, or if it needs to be approved or something
<cyphermox> but I suppose, tsimonq2, if you're going to be the person bringing it up to the TB, it can be part of the discussion if there's any needed
<cyphermox> I'll definitely be at the next TB meeting anyway
<tsimonq2> The original proposal I outlined was to create a new team, ~lubuntu-dev-owner, which has the DMB and ~lubuntu-council, and allow that team to approve/deny members.
<cyphermox> yup
<tsimonq2> cyphermox: Is that something we decide or the TB does?
<cyphermox> like kubuntu, basically
<tsimonq2> Right.
<cyphermox> well, TB ultimately is responsible for granting access rights to developers, they delegate that to us
<cyphermox> but it sounds exactly like what Kubuntu does, and seems like it's perfectly fine for lubuntu to do that as well
<cyphermox> so you probably just need to finish sorting out the ownership of the teams and you'll be all set
<tsimonq2> Cool.
<tsimonq2> Do we have a wiki page somewhere for formally requesting that the TB edit ACLs?
<tsimonq2> (Or just generally some documentation I can follow.)
<tsimonq2> "The name 'lubuntu-dev-owner' has been blocked by the Launchpad administrators. Contact Launchpad Support if you want to use this name." - heh, ok, so it'll have to be with one big ticket.
<tsimonq2> (To answer my own question: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/KnowledgeBase#Actions_after_a_successful_applications )
<cyphermox> oh, looky
<cyphermox> that actually also covers delegation
<cyphermox> we should be looking at a policy for how the applications will be managed
<tsimonq2> [ACTION] tsimonq2 to file RT transferring ownership of ~lubuntu-dev, deactivate ~lubuntu-council, ask TB to do ACL change
<meetingology> ACTION: tsimonq2 to file RT transferring ownership of ~lubuntu-dev, deactivate ~lubuntu-council, ask TB to do ACL change
<cyphermox> tsimonq2: we should really go over such a "policy" on the applications for lubuntu, but we can do that at a later meeting I guess?
<cyphermox> that way you could write down something in the wiki like the one for the DesktopTeam; what you expect to see for an applicant, etc.
<tsimonq2> https://phab.lubuntu.me/w/lubuntu-dev/
<tsimonq2> I wrote that when I sent the email to devel-permissions.
<tsimonq2> It's a more complete page which I'd like to generalize for Ubuntu Developers that shows everything I would expect a Lubuntu Developer to know, plus the application process.
<cyphermox> nice
<tsimonq2> So where I'm still curious is whether that's a process that the TB or the DMB approves.
<cyphermox> the knowledgebase page says it's us
<tsimonq2> Alright, so the vote earlier was to grant the team the packageset permissions, I guess we need a separate vote for the process?
<cyphermox> slashd: jbicha: any issues with the aforementioned document?
<cyphermox> or do you want to vote on it?
<jbicha> I don't think we need a second vote
<tsimonq2> For the record: ~lubuntu-dev changed to self-renewal, 720 day expiry period, ~ubuntu-core-dev was already a member, added ~lubuntu-dev to ~ubuntu-dev.
<cyphermox> ack
<tsimonq2> Oh, and ~lubuntu-council deactivated prior to doing all of that.
<tsimonq2> Something else I noticed when adding ~lubuntu-dev to ~ubuntu-dev; ~ubuntu-sru-developers is the only team with an expiry date. Should that be changed to "expire never"?
<cyphermox> tsimonq2: you mean in ~ubuntu-dev?
<tsimonq2> Yes.
<cyphermox> possibly
<cyphermox> #topic AOB?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: AOB?
<cyphermox> oh
<cyphermox> ok, I already did end the voting
<tsimonq2> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev/+member/ubuntu-sru-developers vs https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev/+member/kubuntu-dev
<cyphermox> anything else?
<cyphermox> tsimonq2: I agree.
<tsimonq2> I'll make that change then.
<tsimonq2> Nothing else from me.
<cyphermox> slashd: jbicha
<slashd> cyphermox, nothing else on my side
<jbicha> nothing from me :)
<cyphermox> ok
<cyphermox> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Feb 25 19:50:20 2019 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2019/ubuntu-meeting.2019-02-25-19.23.moin.txt
<cyphermox> thanks everyone!
<tsimonq2> Thanks!
<jbicha> bye
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-02-28
 * vorlon waves
<rbalint> o/
<juliank> \o
<vorlon> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Feb 28 16:01:44 2019 UTC.  The chair is vorlon. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<vorlon> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<vorlon> $ echo $(shuf -e vorlon bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity cyphermox mwhudson juliank waveform)
<vorlon> waveform juliank sil2100 vorlon tdaitx rbalint doko mwhudson bdmurray infinity cyphermox xnox
<vorlon> waveform: hello
<waveform> * stripped suid-root out of wiringpi; ready for submission
<waveform> * finished testing port of pigpio to aarch64; DMA-driven PWM isn't going to work (for now), so leaving daemon out but the client libs can go in at least
<waveform> * added fixes for networkd-wait-online degraded state to livecd-rootfs (worked on Pi3, still need to test on Pi2, Pi3+, and CM3)
<waveform> * working on package(s) of pi-specific permission fixes (for I2C, SPI, and GPIO device nodes)
<waveform> * testing package of bluetooth fixes from Martin Wimpress (pi-bluetooth in ppa:ubuntu-pi-flavour-makers/ppa)
<waveform> * testing kernel fix from an Adam Smith ticket (LP: #1762835)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1762835 in linux-raspi2 (Ubuntu) "Conflicting mmc modules built in" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1762835
<waveform> (done)
<vorlon> juliank:
<juliank> some highlights from the sprint:
<juliank> * fixed the remaining CI failures for proposed apt changes in git branches
<juliank> * journals for autopkgtest cloud workers have custom journal fields now for filtering
<juliank> apt(-ish):
<juliank> * esm hook i18n, formatting improvements
<juliank> * released 1.8.0~rc4
<juliank> * removed deprecated code
<juliank> * started writing a spec for the apt daemon
<juliank> * some discussions with their respective upstreams about debconf client helpers and dpkg conffile prompts
<juliank> livecd-rootfs:
<juliank> * reviewed some changes for
<juliank> * fixed livecd-rootfs to not mark deps of ubiquity as automatic (bug 1801629)
<ubottu> bug 1801629 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Disco) "direct dependencies of ubiquity should not be autoremovable" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1801629
<juliank> misc:
<juliank> * post-sprint expensify
<juliank> * tested a repo
<juliank> (done)
<vorlon> sil2100 not currently here
<vorlon>  * last week: Malta!
<vorlon>  * was out Monday, Wednesday for swap
<vorlon>  * finalizing ubuntu-drivers design for nvidia gpgpu handling
<vorlon>  * revving nvidia drivers for gke
<vorlon>  * thinking around tpms and FDE
<vorlon> (done)
<vorlon> tdaitx:
<vorlon> tdaitx is out
<vorlon> rbalint:
<rbalint> (short week)
<rbalint> * uploaded libcec 4.0.4+dfsg1-1, libnfs 3.0.0-2
<rbalint> * first upload of waylandpp through Debian (in NEW)
<rbalint> * merged sudo 1.8.27-1
<rbalint> * verified unattended-upgrades SRUs
<rbalint> * partner work
<rbalint> (done)
<bdmurray> sil2100: we skipped you earlier
<sil2100> Thanks, I have no notes prepared anyway, will send them via e-mail
<bdmurray> sil2100: are you prepared?
<vorlon> doko:
<doko> - came back home, had a BC upgrade to Munich ;-P
<doko> - GCC 8.3 release, updated native and cross packages
<doko> - gdb-8.2.90 (8.3)
<doko> - openjdk-11 backporting work (~100 packages done, partially reviewed)
<doko> - some more merges
<doko> - openjdk-11 11.0.3 packaging
<doko> - openjdk-12 packaging, first release tarball
<doko> - finally the bionic test rebuilds for bionic are finished ...
<doko> - preparing cosmic test rebuilds (main only). Updating GCC 8 in bionic requires an update in cosmic as well :-(
<doko> (done)
<vorlon> bdmurray:
<bdmurray> oh, hey!
<bdmurray> investigation into ET mojo spec failing in jenkins (not my fault!)
<bdmurray> investigation into apport-retrace failures w/ disco, due in part to glibc in -proposed
<bdmurray> tested retracing crashes w/o -proposed enabled
<bdmurray> ran apport-retrace w/o -proposed against retrace failures in LP
<bdmurray> submitted MP for lp-retracer-configs not to enable -proposed for disco in sources
<bdmurray> wrote LP API code to request a recipe build of a package
<bdmurray> uploaded distro-info and distro-info-data to Disco fixing (LP: #1814976, #1808038)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1814976 in distro-info-data (Ubuntu) "eol-server dates are empty for current LTS releases" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1814976
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1808038 in distro-info-data (Ubuntu) "ubuntu-distro-info should include information about ESM status" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1808038
<bdmurray> worked on backlog of Ubuntu 18.04 SRUs
<bdmurray> special SRU review of docker.io for mwh
<bdmurray> tested NUC with Disco iso again after changing SATA mode
<bdmurray> â done
<bdmurray> cyphermox:
<bdmurray> xnox: ?
<cyphermox> I'm here
<cyphermox> sorry
<xnox> away
<cyphermox> - netplan: 0.96; fixing autopkgtests and varia
<cyphermox> - grub merge of doom; mostly done now, testing
<cyphermox> (done)
<vorlon> bdmurray: ET mojo spec> eastern time? extra terrestrial?
<bdmurray> ET is short for Error Tracker
<vorlon> well
<vorlon> error tracker phone home
<bdmurray> at least in my jargon
<vorlon> and xnox is away
<vorlon> any other questions on status?
<vorlon> [TOPIC] Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
<vorlon> bdmurray:
<bdmurray> Should we target bug 1814072 for Disco?
<ubottu> bug 1814072 in software-properties (Ubuntu) "software-properties-gtk does not recognize https mirrors under Ubuntu Software" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1814072
<bdmurray> They also mention "deb mirror+" not working and I saw a similar u-r-u bug about that
<vorlon> [LINK][LINK] http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-dd-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<vorlon> [LINK] http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-dd-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<vorlon> LP: #1814072
<vorlon> do we now have official https mirrors?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1814072 in software-properties (Ubuntu) "software-properties-gtk does not recognize https mirrors under Ubuntu Software" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1814072
<bdmurray> bug 1813354 is the u-r-u one I was thinking of
<ubottu> bug 1813354 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "release-upgrader unable to deal with sources.list entries of "deb mirror://"" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1813354
<juliank> That's so true!
<juliank> I use mirror+file:/// and upgrades are odd
<bdmurray> juliank: the deb mirror: part?
<juliank> yeah
<juliank> FWIW, we now have mirror, mirror+http, mirror+https, and mirror+file
<vorlon> ok, but are those something we are directing users to?
<vorlon> I don't think it's a bug to be targeted if it only affects users who are trying to use an apt feature we don't recommend / guide users towards
<bdmurray> vorlon: are you asking if official instructions tell people how to use that?
<vorlon> yes
<bdmurray> okay, that's fair. I'll have a look.
<bdmurray> that's it from me then
<juliank> The mirrors.txt is certainly hosted on mirrors.ubuntu.com
<juliank> But I'm not sure how far it went
<vorlon> well http://mirrors.ubuntu.com/mirrors.txt contains the single line http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/
<vorlon> :)
<juliank> vorlon: no...
<juliank> vorlon: it depends on where you are accessing it from
<vorlon> are you sure?
<juliank> vorlon: I get 36 mirrors in germany in there
<vorlon> ah
<juliank> And apt can download from them in parallel
<vorlon> ok, so at this point I still don't think that's a bug to be targeted
<sarnold> TIL our mirrors.txt is much more advanced than I expected :)
<vorlon> but seems we should put it on backlog to investigate
<juliank> probably just a missing line in Ubuntu.mirrors in python-apt
<vorlon> (the sheer number of different load balancers that have existed over the years in Debian has been problematic)
<vorlon> bdmurray: other bugs?
<bdmurray> vorlon: not today
<vorlon> [TOPIC] proposed-migration
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: proposed-migration
<vorlon> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/disco/update_excuses_by_team.html#foundations-bugs
<vorlon> pillow, still blocked by an MIR
<vorlon> someone want to investigate curl?
<rbalint> i take it
<vorlon> rbalint: thanks
<cyphermox> I'd like to look at util-linux and keyutils.
<waveform> I'll take sphinx/mu-editor
<vorlon> fwupd-signed, just needs unapproved processing
<cyphermox> yup
<vorlon> (and also an MIR)
<vorlon> cyphermox: I've filed a bug in Debian about keyutils fwiw
<cyphermox> ah ok
<vorlon> elfutils
<vorlon> ?
<doko> cross-toolchain-base-mipsen times out depending on the machine
<doko> so hit retry until it succeeds
<vorlon> "depending on the machine" - all the machines are VMs in the same cloud?
<vorlon> I'll retry those and see where we get to
<doko> or ignore, without version, I don't care. are they?
<vorlon> (so, I'm claiming elfutils)
<vorlon> ignore without version> no, drop your tests if they're broken?
<doko> remember the 12h build in the past?
<doko> you wanted to have a look
<vorlon> I still have a tab open about that
<doko> attr is done
<vorlon> lxml?
<vorlon> juliank: ?
<juliank> those do look interesting
<juliank> python-mechanicalsoup should be easy, tryton-server a bit more difficult, but I can have a look
<vorlon> ok, I think that covers everything (and glibc is infinity+doko)
<waveform> juliank, tryton-server just looks like it's missing a build-dep on libeatmydata, no?
<gaughen> juliank, waveform please create cards if it's not trivial so we don't lose who signed up :-)
<waveform> ah, no - I see it
<juliank> there's some segfault
<waveform> yup
<juliank> but there's also a dependency issue, as the test deps could not be satisfied
<vorlon> ah makedumpfile/i386, failing with some goofiness wrt /tmp being nuked in the test image
<vorlon> well anyway, I'll follow up
<vorlon> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<vorlon> anything else?
<gaughen> no
<gaughen> although I do want to hear about the point release
<doko> http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/a/acl/disco/amd64 should not be a regression (on all archs)
<vorlon> doko: I'll add an override hint, can you also file a bug against https://bugs.launchpad.net/britney ?
<doko> ok
<doko> and any idea about https://launchpadlibrarian.net/413137639/buildlog_ubuntu-disco-amd64.libcolt-free-java_1.2.0+dfsg-6build4_BUILDING.txt.gz ?
<doko> the sed command is failing, some locale issue? cannot yet reproduce it locally
<vorlon> well, the error seems accurate enough, that's not a UTF-8 character
<vorlon> it's iso8859-1 encoded
<doko> yes, and the sed tries to replace it
<vorlon> ah
<vorlon> there's been a new sed since the last time libcolt-free-java built
<vorlon> does this show up in rebuild tests?
<doko> it works locally
<vorlon> failed in the cosmic rebuild with this error but not in the bionic rebuild in July
<doko> https://bugs.launchpad.net/britney/+bug/1818119
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1818119 in britney "britney handles autopkg transition "neutral" -> "fail" as a regression" [Undecided,New]
<vorlon> perhaps the output of the file command changed
<vorlon> anyway, to answer your actual question: no I don't have any (concrete) ideas
<vorlon> but we can continue poking at it post-meeting
<vorlon> anything else?
<vorlon> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Feb 28 16:47:22 2019 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2019/ubuntu-meeting.2019-02-28-16.01.moin.txt
<vorlon> thanks, all
<sil2100> o/
#ubuntu-meeting 2020-02-24
<sil2100> o/
<sil2100> Looking at the agenda I don't see anything for today, anyone else from the DMB around?
<rbasak> o/
<rbasak> We're proposing to skip the meeting today
<rbasak> Pending admin (I'm waiting on not-me)
<ddstreet> o/
<sil2100> ACK o/
<sil2100> I'll stay around in case someone has any DMB-related questions, but otherwise +1 on skipping
<ddstreet> guess we should probably discuss new members at some point in the future
<slashd> o/
<slashd> no applicant today afaict, so I'm fine to skip if not urgent matter
#ubuntu-meeting 2020-02-25
<cpaelzer> hiho
<cpaelzer> jamespage: ddstreet: doko: didrocks: joeubuntu: hiho MIR people
<doko> o/
<joeubuntu> good morning cpaelzer
<doko> half of the people missing :-/
<cpaelzer> give everone a minute, then we will start
<doko> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.svg
<cpaelzer> I have seen jamespage around already
<cpaelzer> and didrocks as well this morning on IRC
<cpaelzer> #startmeeting Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Feb 25 14:03:45 2020 UTC.  The chair is cpaelzer. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic:
<cpaelzer> We've had one action which was Laney to work with didrocks to complete the tool for the OEm-meta packages
<cpaelzer> that was completed let me fetch some links to show you as FYI
<cpaelzer> https://code.launchpad.net/~laney/ubuntu-archive-tools/oem-meta/+merge/379728
<cpaelzer> based on that this morning they started to add the first package and wanted to see if it is in proposed mismatches
<cpaelzer> The full defined "special case" is here:https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MIRTeam/Exceptions/OEM
<cpaelzer> That much for the past
<cpaelzer> lets go to current cases
<cpaelzer> first the link that doko already has mentioned just before we started "officially"
<cpaelzer> #link: https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.svg
<cpaelzer> anyone having any context on those mismatches and/or seen MIRs for them?I tihnk nfs-ganesha / ntirpc exist ...
<cpaelzer> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nfs-ganesha/+bug/1843403
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1843403 in ntirpc (Ubuntu) "[MIR] nfs-ganesha, ntirpc" [High,New]
<doko> joeubuntu: the openssh ones are targeted for 20.04
<cpaelzer> both got security Team acks recently
<doko> rbalint was touching nfs ...
<doko> ahh, no, openstack
<cpaelzer> jamespage: in fact https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nfs-ganesha/+bug/1843403 seems ready now
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1843403 in ntirpc (Ubuntu) "[MIR] nfs-ganesha, ntirpc" [High,New]
<cpaelzer> MIR ack + security Ack
<cpaelzer> was there anything missing or can we ask doko to promote it now?
<joeubuntu> doko,  I don't see any OpenSSH ones, do you have a link?
<joeubuntu> we ack'd Zsys yesterday.
<cpaelzer> joeubuntu: I guess there is no MIR bug yet
<doko> joeubuntu: see the .svg above
<cpaelzer> libfido2 and libcbor
<doko> https://launchpad.net/bugs/1864439
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1864439 in libfido2 (Ubuntu) "[MIR] libfido2, libcbor (dependencies of openssh)" [Undecided,New]
<joeubuntu> thanks!
<cpaelzer> cjwatson: this came in via the new openssh (thanks BTW) are you going to file MIR requests for libfido2 and libcbor or is this intended to go a different path?
<doko> cpaelzer: can nfs-ganesha, ntirpc be promoted?
<cpaelzer> oh there are - where have you found that fido MIR doko
 * cpaelzer is reading
<cpaelzer> doko: yes nfs-ganesha and ntirpc can be promoted, just double check if the team subscription is really present
<doko> cpaelzer: yes, already asked him, should be promoted for two-factor auth
<cpaelzer> yeah I know the use case, just didn#t know that something was filed
<cpaelzer> doko: Thanks for doing already the MIR part on 1864439
<cpaelzer> so this is on joeubuntu now right?
<cpaelzer> python-tabulate also has a bug => https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-tabulate/+bug/1862773
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1862773 in python-tabulate (Ubuntu) "[MIR] python-tabulate (dependency of cinder)" [High,New]
<cpaelzer> also on security
<cpaelzer> joeubuntu: coudl you confirm that libfido2 libcbor and python-tabulate are in your queue ?
<cpaelzer> doko: the subscriptions on nfs-ganesha and ntirpc are ok (openstack team) - can you promote this?
<doko> just done
<cpaelzer> thank you
<joeubuntu> cpaelzer not python-tabulate
<cpaelzer> joeubuntu: this is for the new cinder driven by jamespage - see bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-tabulate/+bug/1862773
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1862773 in python-tabulate (Ubuntu) "[MIR] python-tabulate (dependency of cinder)" [High,New]
<joeubuntu> I'll add it in.
<cpaelzer> joeubuntu: could you add it and sync with jamespage on the timing of it to match what is needed for openstack?
<cpaelzer> ok - the last one in the list is alsa-lib - anybody heard of that one if it is intentional?
<joeubuntu> cpaelzer sure
<doko> apparently, desktop just asking kernel for a take over on -devel ;p
<doko> didrocks: could you review?
<cpaelzer> ok leaving that to -desktop for now ...
<cpaelzer> I have one more case that doesn't show up in component-mismatches yet but is important for jamespage (for ceph) as well as rafaeldtinoco (for server HA)
<cpaelzer> FYI https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ceph-iscsi/+bug/1854362
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1854362 in python-configshell-fb (Ubuntu) "[MIR] ceph-iscsi, tcmu, python-configshell-fb, python-rtslib-fb, urwid, targetcli-fb" [Undecided,In progress]
<cpaelzer> this is being worked on and passed the MIR reviews
<cpaelzer> jamespage: updated a few packages as needed already
<cpaelzer> rafaeldtinoco: and jamespage: ware working on targetcli-fb to be updated as well
<cpaelzer> the main remaining effort is on joeubuntu and security again
<cpaelzer> this morning amurray has checked the case and it should be in your queues now joeubuntu
<cpaelzer> targetcli-fb needs to be updated before your review (as it will add another daemon)
<cpaelzer> joeubuntu: does that make sense when you look at your queues?
<joeubuntu> It takes time. but we've got a number of people working on MIRs.
<joeubuntu> yes
<cpaelzer> yeah, this is the time in the yeah when everyone realizes he needs MIR and security reviews
<cpaelzer> lets check the old/incomplete cases then
<cpaelzer> #topic Incomplete bugs / questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Incomplete bugs / questions
<cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
<cpaelzer> we've talked about jeepney already and ec2-instance-connect is going on between security and rbalint
<cpaelzer> nothing for us to unblock here
<cpaelzer> the rest in this list is old news
<doko> ok
<cpaelzer> #topic Any other business?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Any other business?
<cpaelzer> well I mentioned the OEM MIR excuse wiki already
<cpaelzer> anything else?
 * cpaelzer sees jamespage and didrocks recover a lot of backlog here later on :-)
<cpaelzer> ok, nothing else it seems
<cpaelzer> ah the addition of new team members
<cpaelzer> I see https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mir/+members#active was cleaned
<cpaelzer> doko: can you add ddstreet there?
<cpaelzer> We can give him a onboarding session in Frankfurt then if he wants to
<doko> cpaelzer: I'd like to discuss this in Frankfurt first
<cpaelzer> this order works for me as well
<cpaelzer> ok, closing the meeting then
<cpaelzer> hopefully seeing you all in person next week then
<cpaelzer> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Feb 25 14:24:32 2020 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-02-25-14.03.moin.txt
<didrocks> backlog read
#ubuntu-meeting 2020-02-27
<rbalint> o/
<waveform> o/
<sil2100> o/
<tdaitx> o/
<juliank> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Feb 27 16:24:42 2020 UTC.  The chair is juliank. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<juliank> #topic Lightning rounds
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning rounds
<juliank> echo $(shuf -e vorlon bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity mwhudson juliank waveform)
<juliank> mwhudson waveform juliank doko rbalint vorlon tdaitx xnox bdmurray sil2100 infinity
<juliank> waveform:
<waveform> * Going slow (lungs still recovering)
<waveform> * Looked at mu-editor/pyserial but couldn't replicate the segfault under armhf; requested re-run of test
<waveform> * Patched ssh-import-id for focal (LP: #1864107)
<waveform> * Built linux-firmware-raspi2 testing packages (LP: #1862760)
<waveform> * Patched f-k to avoid running under containers (LP: #1863145)
<waveform> * Finished off all pictl features; working on test suite/docs
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1864107 in ssh-import-id (Ubuntu) "ssh-import-id broken on Focal" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1864107
<waveform> * Working on f-k merge (several deltas can probably be removed)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1862760 in linux-raspi2-5.3 (Ubuntu Focal) "Unreliable 802.11ac connection on our raspi images" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1862760
<waveform> * Working on uc20 boot scripts (images build locally, u-boot starts, combining core A/B elements into optional portion of classic bootscript to bring both into a single package-based source)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1863145 in livecd-rootfs (Ubuntu) "arm64 cloud image contains flash-kernel which leads to apt errors on upgrade" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1863145
<waveform> (done)
<juliank> juliank:
<juliank> * apt transition
<juliank> * debian-cd/grub work
<juliank> (done)
<juliank> doko:
<doko>  - gnat transition
<doko>  - fixed remaining icu related ftbfs
<doko>  - syncs & merges
<doko>  - GCC update
<doko> (done)
<juliank> rbalint:
<rbalint> * uploads via Debian: meld 3.20.2, unattended-upgrades 1.18 (via experimental), wireshark 3.2.2-1
<rbalint> * (highlight) unattended-upgrades now honors pinning and became much faster
<rbalint> * proposed-migration: postgresql-pgmp (gmp)
<rbalint> * merges: uisp, ssmtp, speex, mawk (synced), systemd, mtd-utils
<rbalint> * updated kodi and all packaged addons to 18.5 upstream version
<rbalint> * partner work
<rbalint> (done)
<juliank> vorlon:
<vorlon>  * proposed-migration: icu and boost-defaults have migrated!
<vorlon>  * just in time for FF, which will be happening today
<vorlon>  * looking at arm64 autopkgtest backlog, possibly stuck wasting time on umpteen libreoffice tests that will never succeed
<vorlon>  * out next Tuesday
<vorlon> (done)
<juliank> tdaitx:
<tdaitx> * apport security backports for xenial, bionic, eoan (LP: #1853383, LP: #1851806, LP: #1854237)
<tdaitx>   - local tests are good, waiting for autopkgtest results from bileto
<tdaitx> * openjdk 11 fixes for i386 (LP: #1861467, thanks vorlon for the patch) and partial hs-err log artifacts collection
<tdaitx> * openjdk 8 ongoing to add hs-err artifact collection and merge with debian
<tdaitx> * collected openjdk-11 buildlogs, parsing to generate stable and flaky test lists
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1853383 in apport (Ubuntu Eoan) "autopkgtest regression in test_add_proc_info" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1853383
<tdaitx> * retesting LP: #1838740 on focal, eoan, bionic
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1851806 in apport (Ubuntu) "'module' object has no attribute 'O_PATH'" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1851806
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1854237 in apport (Ubuntu Disco) "autopkgtests fail after security fixes" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1854237
<tdaitx> (done)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1861467 in openjdk-lts (Ubuntu) "make autopkgtests cross-test-friendly" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1861467
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1838740 in openjdk-lts (Ubuntu Focal) "libjawt.so inconsistency lets JVM crash" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1838740
<juliank> xnox: around?
<juliank> I guess that means no
<juliank> bdmurray is out
<juliank> sil2100:
<sil2100> - SRU reviews and releases
<sil2100> - Cherry-picked bubblewrap test fixes to unblock libcap2, retried tests
<sil2100> - ubuntu-image:
<sil2100>   * Fixed focal ADT tests
<sil2100>   * Released 1.9 to focal, uploaded SRUs to stable series
<sil2100>   * Investigated and fixed snap builds
<sil2100> - netplan:
<sil2100>   * Worked though the existing network-manager changes and made them buildable
<sil2100>   * Set up a test environment, performed first batch of tests
<sil2100>   * Worked on some edge-cases causing segfaults in network-manager
<sil2100>   * Make sure nm-created netplan .yaml configs are deleted on nmcli con delete
<sil2100> - Switched the raspi3 SUBARCH to raspi on focal
<sil2100> - Release sprint travel booking
<sil2100> - Some health hiccups
<sil2100> (done)
<juliank> infinity yis not here
<juliank> #topic Release incoming bugs (focal)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release incoming bugs (focal)
<juliank> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ff-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<juliank> bug 1847191
<ubottu> bug 1847191 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Selected experimental ZFS otion and install in QEMU/KVM and crashed" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1847191
<juliank> this one has jibel assigned to it, so ?
<vorlon> so let's punt and leave it to desktop team to decide whether they're committing for focal
<juliank> bug 1861873
<ubottu> bug 1861873 in apport (Ubuntu) "apport-collect fails to run with python3.8" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1861873
<juliank> I see uploads from cjwatson in there
<juliank> is there still an actual apport bug?
<vorlon> my understanding from reading the bug log just now is that's fixed in python-launchpadlib
<vorlon> so I'll close the apport task invalid
<juliank> ack
<juliank> bug 1860957
<cjwatson> Should be, I was waiting for doko to confirm
<ubottu> bug 1860957 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Focal) "ZFS installation crash when ESP already exists" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1860957
<vorlon> doko: ^^ please reopen if you find problems still
<sil2100> I somehow remember seeing a card for that already
<sil2100> But I can't find any, so probably just in my head
<vorlon> it's already targeted, we should take off the incoming tag at any rate
<juliank> the zfs one?
<vorlon> yeah
<juliank> ack
<juliank> vorlon: don't see a card id tag, though
<vorlon> juliank: yes, because it's the desktop team's project
<juliank> ah right
<vorlon> so if they targeted it to the release, I assume that means they're owning it, even if there's no assignee
<juliank> bug 1864586
<ubottu> bug 1864586 in plymouth (Ubuntu Focal) "plymouth does not ask for LUKS password and does not change tty properly" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1864586
<vorlon> this one is a definite critical
<vorlon> and I'm going to upload plymouth today
<vorlon> :P
<juliank> bug 1861472
<ubottu> bug 1861472 in openssh (Ubuntu) "upgrade from fresh bionic to focal needlessly prompts user" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1861472
<juliank> that's assigned to colin, so let's ignore it, I guess?
<vorlon> yeah and remove the incoming tag
<juliank> OK, that's it for high/critical
<vorlon> (and openssh is probably just waiting on libfido2 MIR)
<juliank> #topic Release incoming bugs (bionic)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release incoming bugs (bionic)
<juliank> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<juliank> nothing on there
<vorlon> \o/
<juliank> #topic Team proposed-migration report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Team proposed-migration report
<juliank> #link http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#foundations-bugs
<juliank> libyaml-libyaml-perl (0.80+repack-2 to 0.81+repack-1) in proposed for 28 days
<juliank> regression of libkiokudb-perl/
<vorlon> that one is deprioritized
<vorlon> (there's an update-excuse bug)
<vorlon> libcap2/bubblewrap
<vorlon> sil2100: you said last week you were looking at this?
<sil2100> That one hopefully should be better, let me look
<vorlon> sil2100: are you going to carry on?
<sil2100> I pushed a new bubblewrap that fixed the tests
<sil2100> Probably needs a re-run somewhere with the new bubblewrap
<sil2100> Looking
<vorlon> only on arm64
<vorlon> considering that one taken
<vorlon> gpgme1.0, this is my merge and it's failing terribly
<vorlon> so it's on my list but probably not going to get worked this week
<juliank> nice
<sil2100> vorlon: I think I actually re-ran the arm64 one, but I think the arm64 tests are going quite slow
<vorlon> pyyaml: one autopkgtest regression, probably reproducible in release, I'll take it
<juliank> Yeah I tried merging gpgme as well a while back and stopped after the errors
<vorlon> simplejson, same failing autopkgtest (mpi4py/ppc64el)
<vorlon> so I'll take this also
<vorlon> lxml/searx
<vorlon> who can take this?
<vorlon> juliank: ?
<juliank> I guess
<vorlon> thanks
<vorlon> libhtml-parser-perl: gscan2pdf/arm64
<vorlon> this one is hanging/timing out on the autopkgtest runners
<vorlon> so whoever takes this, don't try to solve it by blindly retrying tests :P
<vorlon> (which apparently Laney already had to clean up after today)
<rbalint> i take it, i tried to retry before :-)
<Laney> I have hinted that one fwiw
<Laney> but still feel free to fix it of course
<rbalint> Laney, i'd pass then :-)
<vorlon> ah, let's move on instead :)
<vorlon> git, mercurial/s390x
<vorlon> rbalint: you can have this one
<rbalint> Laney, in release it passed, so there seems to be a genuine regression
<rbalint> vorlon, ok, mercurial then
<vorlon> rbalint: or just flaky
<vorlon> pastedeploy: waveform: ?
<waveform> vorlon, ok
<vorlon> licensecheck: tdaitx: ?
<tdaitx> vorlon: ok
<rbalint> vorlon, if it is flaky we should at least add a shorter timeout to the script
<vorlon> to what script?
<rbalint> gscan2pdf/arm64 autopkgtest
<vorlon> python3-stdlib-extensions is a candidate, I think this is de facto me + doko to unpick
<vorlon> rbalint: in the testsuite itself?  fair, but not a priority at the moment IMHO
<cjwatson> waveform: looks like a bad test FWIW since the module is called paste.deploy not pastedeploy
<vorlon> libhtml-form-perl
<waveform> cjwatson, ta
<vorlon> doko: could you take libhtml-form-perl please?
<doko> ok
<juliank> autodep8-perl-build-deps failure
<vorlon> and that's the list
<juliank> wooo
<cjwatson> waveform: Hmm but debian/tests/pkg-python/import-name exists and looks correct, so may be more subtle
<juliank> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<rbalint> it is Feature Freeze today!
<vorlon> indeed
<juliank> :(
<juliank> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Feb 27 16:54:33 2020 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-02-27-16.24.moin.txt
<sil2100> o/
<rbalint> o/
<rbalint> i'm out tomorrow
