#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-09-27
<paultag> hey persia. You may not remember me ( in fact, I would be shocked if you did ) -- I asked about helping Ubuntu Studio in like 2008-ish? I did not know much MOTU stuff, so I never got involved. I'm OK at it now, and I was wondering how I can help.
<paultag> for -N cycle, my -M stuff is pretty locked up
<astraljava> paultag: So we meet again. :D
<paultag> astraljava, howdy there :)
<paultag> astraljava, I'm about to do a lot more MOTU stuff next cycle :)
<astraljava> paultag: I'm hoping too.
<astraljava> paultag: Already meant to this cycle, but life got in the way.
<paultag> mm!
<paultag> I got stuck with a lot of Community stuff this cycle
<paultag> happy to do it, but still
<astraljava> I got stuck with the house, the puppy, work and studies. :D
<rlameiro> puppy astraljava ?
<astraljava> Yeah, a bichon frisÃ©. :D
<astraljava> Sleeping under my bed as I type. :D
<rlameiro> i would love to have a newfoundlan.....
<astraljava> rlameiro: Oh boy they're great!
<rlameiro> indeeeeeed
<rlameiro> I habe a friend with 2!!
<astraljava> rlameiro: I'd love myself a bernese mountain dog.
<astraljava> Wow!
<rlameiro> everytime I went to is home i had to secure myself
<astraljava> Heheh. :D
<rlameiro> the male took me dont to the floor when he saw me
<rlameiro> :D
<astraljava> Bwahaha!
<rlameiro> he was so happy, then start to run towards me
<rlameiro> and i was on the flor the next second with him drwaling on my face
<astraljava> They're awesome.
<astraljava> I knew of one who wouldn't hear any commands, but was there on instant when the fridge door was opened. :D
<rlameiro> yes they are
<rlameiro> I like labradors too, and German Dog
<rlameiro> lol
<astraljava> I'd love to take up a challenge and bring up a rottweiler, but my wife isn't too happy about it.
<astraljava> We had a golden retriever before. He was Golden!
<rlameiro> i really dont like to much rottweilers
<rlameiro> they were breed to fight...
<astraljava> They're superbe,
<astraljava> -e
<astraljava> once properly trained.
<rlameiro> newfoundland were breed to save lives
<astraljava> No no, not to fight, but to protect.
<astraljava> They seldom have to fight.
<rlameiro> astraljava: protecting killing...
<astraljava> Nooo...
<rlameiro> if you train them well, they are good dogs, but their nature is very agressive towards others
<astraljava> They rarely have to show any force. Normally it's enough that they show their presence.
<rlameiro> not very good when you have a comming child and stuf
<astraljava> But they never harm children, they know what's a real threat and what's child's play. :)
<rlameiro> well, thas true
<astraljava> ...if trained properly.
<astraljava> That's what I'd wanna do.
<rlameiro> my frinds dog breeder, had a lot of lucky, his baby son was saved by is newfoundland
<astraljava> I've seen them being pulled by their ears and tails by children, they hardly pay any attention.
<rlameiro> the baby was chocking on the bed when he was sleep
<astraljava> That's awesome! They're wonderful like that!
<rlameiro> the  dog run as crazy to the wife and pull her arm to the room
<rlameiro> the baby was already starting to be blue...
<rlameiro> it was close
<astraljava> Man, crazy stuff.
<rlameiro> and it is a GINORMOUS dog :D
<astraljava> Indeed.
<rlameiro> well, the german dog is bigger
<astraljava> You take him seriously.
<astraljava> You mean German Shepherd? I don't think so.
<rlameiro> not the sheperd, that is small
<rlameiro> letme search
<astraljava> "small"
<astraljava> :D
<astraljava> You mean the great dane?
<astraljava> That's danish, not german. :D
<rlameiro> astraljava: DEUTSCH DOGGEN
<rlameiro> astraljava: http://www.google.com/images?hl=pt-PT&safe=off&q=DEUTSCHE+DOGGE&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=univ&ei=qhOhTO6HAt-M4gaJltTlDQ&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CC8QsAQwAA&biw=1440&bih=638
<rlameiro> this is a big dog :D
<astraljava> So yeah, the great dane.
<astraljava> Wonder why it's called the deutsch doggen, I always thought it's danish. Oh well... *shrug*
<astraljava> Interesting read, the wikipedia article.
<rlameiro> astraljava: you really like dosgs :D
<astraljava> rlameiro: You can tell? :D
<rlameiro> noooooooo, 
<persia> paultag, My guess of areas that would benefit from stuff would be 1) review and cleanup of bugs against packages installed by any of the major Ubuntu Studio tasks, 2) help keep the same set of packages fresh in terms of upstream, and coordinated (addressing seemingly odd annoyances like why one has to do similar actions in mutiple places: why one application doesn't know enough about another, etc.), or deeper documentation.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-09-28
<rlameiro> ScottL: ping
<rlameiro> holstein: how is your voice?
<rlameiro> up for a dubbing session?
<holstein> rlameiro: OH speaking
<holstein> hmmm
<holstein> Ricardus has a great radio voice
<holstein> if you can talk him into it
<holstein> im not saying no
<rlameiro> well, i just recorded a video of the ubuntustudio install process
<rlameiro> maybe you could do the audio part?
<holstein> im just saying, i dont think im the best candidate
<rlameiro> my english is not that perceptible....
<holstein> rlameiro: i'll try it
<holstein> you got a script?
<rlameiro> nope
<holstein> i mean, you can use it or not
<rlameiro> :D 
<rlameiro> its al yours
<holstein> hmmm
<holstein> wheres the vid?
<holstein> you want to email me?
<holstein> mikeh789 at the gmail
<rlameiro> holstein: its encodign from recordmydesktop
<rlameiro> 9%
<rlameiro> i need to edit it a bit
<holstein> OH
<holstein> let me know
<holstein> i'll give it a go :)
<rlameiro> take out the long boring parts :D
<rlameiro> you know Xjadeo?
<holstein> nah
<rlameiro> holstein: its a video player, just video no audio, and it is conrolled via jack transport :D
<rlameiro> so you can be recording it realtime on ardour. you pause in ardour, and the video pauses :D
<holstein> i'll figure it out :)
<ronj> hello abogani and everybody, I'm prepping my test machine for some kernel tests (generic and lowlatency/realtime from abogani's ppa --thanks!--) but linux-headers-lowlatency is not installable because it depends on linux-headers-2.6.35.20-lowlatency, which depends linux-headers-2.6.35.20, which seems to no longer be in the repos. Is this known / expected? Any alternative way to install this lowlatency kernel?
<ronj> uh, correction: linux-headers-lowlatency seems to install even though the dependency isn't satisfied oÃ; but I doubt my lowlatency will work without the headers, will it?
<persia> Should work fine: you just won't be able to compile kernel modules, so stuff like nvidia or fgrlx drivers won't work.
<ronj> persia, should be ok indeed, I'm using an intel chip. thanks!
<paultag> persia, roger
<persia> paultag, In the very short term, chasing the status of highly-visible bugs would also help: holstein or rlameiro usually have a good handle on what is causing the most pain (from testing and user-support activities).  ScottL can probably give specific direction if you need, but he's already largely focused on strategy for the next release, expecting the rest of us to make sure this one is in great shape.
<paultag> persia, OK, awesome. Well, I'll play the bar-back, I'll just try and find stuff to blast away thats just a pita and not a nested bug or anything like that
<persia> Excellent
<paultag> persia, is there a LP project that has all the ubuntu-studio bugs filed against ( as well as against Ubuntu ) ?
<paultag> wait, found it
<paultag> sorry :)
<holstein> hey paultag :)
<paultag> hey there holstein, how are you?
<holstein> let me know if i can help at all with the bug-work
<holstein> im good
<paultag> holstein, for sure, I'll be sure to take you up on that
<holstein> i joined the bug squad
<holstein> but i got busy
<holstein> and it ended up being a bit too much to take on
<paultag> it happens :)
<paultag> holstein, aye, you should avoid burnout at all costs :)
<holstein> but i could tackle a few things with you if needed
<paultag> holstein, for sure, thank you for the offer
<persia> paultag, 95% of bugs are going to just be normal Ubuntu bugs.
<paultag> persia, aye, well I'm on bug control / bug squad, so no harm no foul.
<paultag> persia, is there a tag for "not our problem" ?
<persia> What would fall into that category?  Do you have an example?
<paultag> persia, well by definition a bug against ubuntu studio would also be a bug against ubuntu -- if it's not something that falls into ubuntu studio ( read: normal Ubuntu work ), is there a tag we can apply ( yes, it's valid in studio, but the Ubuntu community should look at this as well )
<persia> We're *part* of the Ubuntu community :)
<paultag> persia, well duh! :) -- but something that gets filed against Ubuntu Studio that has to do with something like binutils
<persia> That said, I think we're primarily interested in bugs on packages that end up in our primary tasks.
<persia> A cleanup of the UbuntuStudio project would be good: every bug there should have an Ubuntu task, if it's valid.
<paultag> yes it's "valid", but it's really not something we should spend time on, that sort of thing
<paultag> persia, OK, cool. I'll start with that
<paultag> I'll start doing some work when it's not 12:30 AM :)
<persia> Might even be safe to make the UbuntuStudio tasks "Invalid" with a comment saying "this affects all of Ubuntu, and is better tracked there" or similar.
<persia> heh.
<paultag> persia, yeah, I was thinking a tag, just because it's it's "valid"
<paultag> persia, but you're right, it kinda seems silly to track it twice
<persia> My concern is that I doubt anyone will go hunt for bugs closed in Ubuntu and still open in UbuntuStudio, and close them.  None of the other final statuses are correct.
<paultag> persia, good point
<persia> So, semantically, one can say "It's not a valid bug for UbuntuStudio, but it *is* valid for Ubuntu" by creating the Ubuntu task, and marking the ubuntustudio one invalid.
<paultag> persia, OK, that sounds sensible to me
<persia> If you come up with good comment text to inform the users, that may make it even smoother.  If you do that, I recommending adding the comment *before* adding the Ubuntu task, just to avoid sending lots of duplicate notices to e.g. the binutils developers.
<paultag> persia, I'll be sure to come up with something sane and template it on the wiki for us :)
<paultag> Righto, well I'm off. Got some work in six hours or so
<paultag> persia, nice talking with you again, thanks :)
<paultag> holstein, you too, we'll talk soon :)
<paultag> night, all
<holstein> GN
<persia> rlameiro, Good day.  RC images are starting to get posted: dunno if ours are up yet, but ... :)
<rlameiro> persia: did you look at the mailing list?
<rlameiro> major fails on the iso building, says collin watson bot
<astraljava> Uhh... damn, just as I got bandwidth for downloading. :D
<rlameiro> well, you can use jidgo to download the iso, when is fixed just update :D
<astraljava> I prefer to use zsync.
<persia> rlameiro, I'm glad to hear you're on top of it: you probably know more than I.  I just saw you join IRC, and wanted to pass on stuff I saw in traffic whilst you were disconnected.
<rlameiro> persia: I recorded a video yesterday, for the install. I will edit it today evening and send it to holstein for voice dubbing
<rlameiro> try to make an "official" how to install Ubuntu studio
<rlameiro> so people ca see how it works
<persia> I'm looking forward to seeing that.  "How to install Ubuntu Studio: video produced on Ubuntu Studio"
<rlameiro> it should be ready before the launch, I hope
<persia> Cool!
<abogani> really cool
<rlameiro> I think we coudl do a series of little videos on different ways to configure jack
<rlameiro> one for firewire devices
<rlameiro> one for alsa, usb etc
<rlameiro> and do some explanation of the latency and settings
<rlameiro> so, everytime someone comes with questions on how to configure it, we forward him/her to the video
<ScottL> rlameiro, that is an awesome idea!
<rlameiro> thanks
<rlameiro> well, need to go to works
<rlameiro> cya later
<astraljava> So wait, cdimage.u.c shows the list of files, but they're not accessible?
<astraljava> Morning Scott!
<astraljava> Meh, PEBKAC.
<astraljava> Nice! 100.0% 1187.8 kBps DONE
<scott-work> abogani: i read your email about the -lowlatency and -rt kernels
<scott-work> abogani: i want to apologize because i did not realize that you had wanted testing done at this time
<scott-work> abogani: i will certainly start testing them this week
<abogani> scott-work: No you don't understand me. I want that someone else offers for the task and for this I'm doing some "fear" for see replies...
<abogani> scott-work: We can't do the work if the tasks are always done by same two o three persons.
<scott-work> abogani: ooohhhh, i see :)
<astraljava> abogani: How many hours do you normally spend on a given kernel release, when you were preparing the -rt flavor?
<abogani> astraljava: On wonderful Hardy release I spend 1/2 hours a day.
<abogani> Since that I spend most of the time on burecrotic works.
<abogani> scott-work: Could you read my last email and say me if it is understable?
<astraljava> abogani: Half an hour, every day?
<abogani> astraljava: No 1 or 2 hours every day. But since Hardy things are more easy probably 1/2 every three days should be enough.
<astraljava> abogani: Okay. I'm trying to come up with an estimate of how long it would take me. Might be too much :-/
<abogani> Test, Upload rights and alignment with the -generic one are the most critical issues.
<abogani> astraljava: If aren't forced to do all the jobs.
<abogani> astraljava: You can do be a part of it.
<persia> Upload rights are the hard part, because only kernel folk tend to be happy sponsoring kernels, and there's only ~4 kernel folk who *can* upload.
<persia> Might be best to have abogani continue to be the focal point for the uploads, sharing the coorindation, testing, patch hunting, etc. with others, just because the process is painful.
<abogani> astraljava: Test for example is only made on new release arise.
<abogani> persia: I really don't know if it is the right thing for the Studio project.
<abogani> persia: As you know well I'm a lot unreliable  lately...
<abogani> :-(
<astraljava> abogani: Sure, I can participate in the process, and learn by doing.
<astraljava> abogani: For the most part, at least in the beginning, I'd need you to organize, though. There's so much to learn, I'd work better if I were given "orders". :)
<scott-work> ugh, we have RC ISO image ready to test but tonnes of applications apparently failed to build installable binaries this morning :(
<holstein> :/
<holstein> whens the deadline or whatever?
<holstein> for testing?
 * holstein will do the 64bit ones again
<holstein> i just dont want to be doing it last minute like last time if possible
<scott-work> holstein: i believe the thought is we have approximately two days to validate the ISO image before it is released
<scott-work> or not released if we don't test it :P
<ronj> is it normal to have to sudo /etc/init.d/networking restart in order to have my network, even after a clean restart ?
<ronj> s/normal/expected/g: I mean is this known, or due to some misconfiguration?
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-09-29
<persia> ScottL, holstein: We have two days before we have to have certified some image.  If the current image isn't certifiable, we need to sort things, and get an image rebuild, etc.  That's the rationale for the two days.
<ScottL> persia, should we certify an image that might have approximately 20 applications that are not installable?
<persia> ScottL, I don't think so :)
<persia> Better to sort the apps.  Is it known what is wrong?
<paultag> ScottL, persia, anything I can help with?
<ScottL> hello paultag :)
<paultag> ScottL, Hey there :)
<ScottL> we got this email from colin watson this morning https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-studio-devel/2010-September/002634.html
<paultag> I see there are some failed builds? Need an extra hand to go through the source packages?
<paultag> ScottL, ouch!
<ScottL> indeed
<paultag> there are some big names on there
<ScottL> to be honest, a lot of times these tend to sort themselves out because it is also effecting ubuntu
<paultag> ScottL, jack-rack and agave look like the ones the might be left to ubuntu studio at first glance
<paultag> and ubuntustudio-*
<ScottL> but these all were building correctly until this morning they all most likely share a common cause
<paultag> mm
<paultag> I'm running a build of agave_0.4.7-1ubuntu1 just to see :)
<paultag> Oh shucks, it's also not amd64
<paultag> nevermind :)
<ScottL> i wish there was an easy way to see if they have a common dependency
<paultag> ScottL, they're mostly GTK apps, I'd venture GNOME, Glade or GTK+
<paultag> My money is on a GTK+ package
<ScottL> persia, you linked something before that showed all the FTBFS packages or similr
<ScottL> similar
<ScottL> i remember this http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS/
<ScottL> but that's not what i'm thinking about
<persia> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/cd-build-logs/ubuntustudio/maverick/daily-20100928.log maybe?
<persia> I know there was some significant change to GTK just before the RC freeze.
<ScottL> no, that's the cd image, there was a list of package builds that failed
<persia> http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ ?
<ScottL> persia, although i noticed we seemed to be trying to install busybox in the ubuntustudio cd image :?
<persia> I think it's used by the installer
<ScottL> the link you gave me before seemed to be on people.canonical.com and seemed to have a person's name in it
<ScottL> it was a link like the NBS....argh, this is deja vu and i don't like it :P
<paultag> ScottL, was it Martin Pitt ( pitti ) ? ( he has a lot on his people.ubuntu )
<persia> For stuff that failed to build or failed to install?
<ScottL> persia, i remember looking at this list while we were exploring why packages failed to build installable binaries
<persia> I probably pointed at http://people.canonical.com/~cjwatson/packagesets previously, which provides a list of packages of interest to us.
<ScottL> paultag, possibly, but i don't think so
<persia> NBS is most likelu
<ScottL> it's not uber critical though
<persia> The standard check for packages which cannot install is `apt-cache -i unmet` run locally
<persia> Maybe somewhere under http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/ubuntustudio.maverick/ ?
<ScottL> no, it was ubuntu studio specific, it had a lot of packages that didn't build, it was probably NBS
<ScottL> persia, i guess i should start a discussion with someone in #ubuntu-release and mentioned wanting to rebuild the RC image when we get the packages squared away
<persia> Let's make sure everything installs first, and *then* bother Riddell.
<persia> I think it's late for him anyway right now.
 * persia attempts to install all the packages marked as uninstallable in that report
<persia> Note that they are all amd64: the i386 images may be in better shape.
<paultag> persia, yeah, I just did a dsc build of agave, built and installed with success
<paultag> ( the one that failed )
<paultag> It must be a dependency problem, everything looks OK at first glance
<persia> paultag, Or could have been a dependency problem at the time the report was made, now resolved.
<persia> Because it's all amd64, I suspect it's a timing difference between i386 and amd64 buildds.
<paultag> aye, oh -- my build was on an i386, so it's not on the affected platform anyway
<paultag> I think so
<paultag> erm, effective
<paultag> even though affected could be right
<persia> Given that we don't know if it's affected yet, I'm not sure we can be effective in fixing it :)
<paultag> :)
 * ScottL 's 3 year old son found the Desitin in his backpack and made a complete mess :(
<persia> heh
<persia> OK.  Install completed.  We should be fine for both i386 and amd64 images.
<persia> Has anyone tried them yet?
<astraljava> persia: Not yet, but I zsynced just a while back, will try in an hour or so.
<astraljava> persia: And amd64 specifically.
<persia> Cool.  I also saw that Riddell announced images in #ubuntustudio some 7 hours back.
 * persia is waiting for rsync to complete
<astraljava> Yeah he did, but weren't they broken at that time, though?
<persia> Don't think so.
<astraljava> Okay.
<persia> I certainly didn't fix anything: just checked.  The notice of uninstallable packages was out-of-date
<astraljava> Right'o.
<TheMuso> Yeah there were some mismatches that I remember Seb talking about yesterday, packages initially FTBFs on amd64, but have been rebuilt once things settled down.
<persia> Indeed.  All looks good now.
<astraljava> An hour my 4$$. :) Installing now, though. :)
<astraljava> An awful lot of hash sum mismatches.
<astraljava> ...and aptitude failed (100)
<astraljava> Okay, filed LP #650953, and marked test case as failed.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 650953 in Ubuntu Studio "Ubuntu Studio rc 20100928.1 fails" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/650953
<persia> Could you attach some logs or something?
<astraljava> persia: How is that done?
<persia> "Add attachment or patch"
<astraljava> persia: I mean, how do I get the log from the install?
<persia> Uhhhhh....
<persia> Check /var/log and /target/var/log for stuff: those are the most likely places.
<persia> Try to find something matching your console issues.
<persia> Also, did you verify the checksum of the media?
<astraljava> Okay.
<astraljava> Hmm... come to think of it, I didn't.
<astraljava> They're a match.
<persia> Hrm.  I was hoping that was the issue,  Hrm.
<astraljava> Recalled hosltein's instructions on serving the log files on a http server, and boyee what did I find!
<astraljava> Sep 29 08:10:06 kernel: [ 2393.113074] end_request: I/O error, dev sr0, sector 3817812
<astraljava> Sep 29 08:10:06 kernel: [ 2393.113078] Buffer I/O error on device sr0, logical block 954453
<astraljava> Sep 29 08:10:06 kernel: [ 2393.113082] Buffer I/O error on device sr0, logical block 954454
<astraljava> Sep 29 08:10:06 kernel: [ 2393.113087] Buffer I/O error on device sr0, logical block 954455
<astraljava> on and on and on
<astraljava> Faulty dvd?
<abogani> Probably
<persia> Or dirty play heads.
<astraljava> Hmm... so, try again with a new blank, and what then if it doesn't fix it?
<astraljava> How do I clean the "play heads"?
<abogani> astraljava: Before that try to check the disc (when you start as livedvd).
<astraljava> abogani: Okay.
<persia> Actually, given that it's a DVD, it's really a lens that gets dirty, rather than "play heads", but same idea.  There's a kit you can get that cleans the sensors for optical disks (same kit ought work for CD/DVD/BR/etc.
<astraljava> Ok, will have to check those out the next time I'm in the city.
<persia> They're generally not needed for the lifetime of the player.  Heavy users need them every year or two.
<astraljava> Yeah, CD-ROM integrity check fails. :(
<persia> (excluding folks who fail to use dust jackets)
<persia> OK.  Please mark the bug "Invalid" and try again :)
<astraljava> Will do.
<persia> Thanks.
<astraljava> Trying to burn another disc now.
<astraljava> Nice, the second disc checks out on integrity, and installing now.
<abogani> good
<ScottL> i'm glad to hear that the failed builds seem to be resolved (or not an issue), downloading ISO myself and will test tonight when i get home
 * ScottL is heading to the office
<ScottL> oh, and is anyone interesting in helping with team reports
<ScottL> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TeamReports
<astraljava> Yup, marked as passed for auto-resize.
<persia> ScottL, In reference to recent discussion in #ubuntustudio: did you ever have luck coordinating with doctormo regarding the state of tablet support?
<scott-work> for those interested in the team reporting:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/TeamReports
<scott-work> persia: not really, we talked around it without developing points of action
<scott-work> although, it's funny you mention it because i was thinking about tasks and workflows and thought about doctormo and the driver
<scott-work> he needs to get in it included into the repos before we can actually install it, no?
<scott-work> i was going to follow up with him this week about getting it into the repos
<scott-work> .
<persia> He's doing work that directly affects the same set of users we target with -graphics: be extra good to convince him to accept "Ubuntu Studio" as "us" internally as an identity :)
<scott-work> of course this is all based on believing that it will take time to ge the drivers included in the kernel
<persia> They don't need to be in the kernel.  DKMS is fine.  Just need a clear path to ensure that the work he's doing in his PPA is also present in the distribution by default.
<scott-work> and therefore to include it with the ISO it would need to be in the repos for a year or so
<persia> Telling every user to add a PPA post-install isn't "Just Works"
<scott-work> DKMS?
<persia> We can include stuff on the ISO that got pushed to the repos last week.
<persia> Dell Kernel Module System (or something).
<scott-work> oh yea, i just read something about that in Linux Format (i think, read it somewhere)
<persia> "Dynamic Kernel Module Support Framework" (originally developed inside Dell)
<scott-work> i'm still fuzzy on how we get it from his PPA into the ISO then
<scott-work> oh, sorry, i think i misread what you meant
<scott-work> i believe you meant:
<scott-work> 1. it doesn't need to be in the kernel because of DKMS
<scott-work> 2. it DOES need to be in the repos
<scott-work> 3. we can add it rather late, even stuff that pushed last week
<scott-work> .
<persia> Right, but it doesn't need to be in the repos for a year or so: should only require a day or two.
<persia> Well, we're constrained by release management.
<scott-work> oh, no...i mean i would not expect it to get pushed into the kernel for a year or so, that's why we need it in the repos now :)
<scott-work> so we can provide that functionality by including it on the ISO as a package, then when it's in the kernel we don't need the package included anymore
<scott-work> either way, i'll follow up with doctormo today about the status of the package
<scott-work> my feeling was that it wasn't in the repos yet and there didn't see to be a burning fire of desire to get it into the repos at this time
<scott-work> might not be viable for maverick then, but i would expect it for natty however
<persia> Right.
<persia> So, apparently something in our packageset depends on ia32-libs.  Given the nature of this package, we probably want to track down whichever is to blame and make it not do that.
<persia> Installed-size is 143MB: one of the largest packages around.
<quadrispro> ScottL, hi!
<quadrispro> did they update lmms?
<persia> Not according to rmadison, and not going to happen at least until RC is published.
<scott-work> quadrispro: persia: i also thought we were wating for sevenmachiens to either package 0.4.8 or resolve some dependencies for 0.4.7
<scott-work> quadrispro: which brings up something, have you read through the ubuntu bug report ?  it mentions debian possible separating the packge to have -vst seperated from lmms to avoid wine and the tts-mscorefonts-installer
<scott-work> #606533
<scott-work> bug 606533
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 606533 in lmms (Ubuntu) "Please merge lmms 0.4.7-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/606533
<scott-work> was comment #9 but it was tobias who actually said he would have 0.4.8 in his PPA
<scott-work> quadrispro: is this something that we might be able to do in debian as well, which would also help with reducing the delta ?
<quadrispro> well... I don't know, I've re-boot'd my life just today, I took an exame
<quadrispro> exam *
<quadrispro> ah, lmms is not under pkg-multimedia umbrella
<quadrispro> we should get in touch with the maintainer
<scott-work> how do you feel your exam went?  what are you studying?
<scott-work> quadrispro: ^^^
<quadrispro> scott-work, I've spent all the summer and the exam has gone bad
<quadrispro> I was studying physics II
<rlameiro> morning /afternoon /evening
<rlameiro> scott-work, persia, astraljava, started now testing the RC on Vbox for i38
<rlameiro> the manual partition and after the auto resize
<persia> Might be nice to tell the folk in #ubuntu-testing : they sometimes seem to think we don't test.
<rlameiro> i will
<rlameiro> i marked it down on the tracker as started
<rlameiro> but i tell ara
<rlameiro> persia: ;)
<astraljava> Don't they see it from the reports? :D
<astraljava> Yeah, I'll do other test cases tomorrow, am a bit tired and the flu is fighting back hard...
<persia> astraljava, Yes, but there's a sense of "everyone working together" that is sometimes missing from the reports.
<rlameiro> astraljava: persia idea is to do a positive reinforcement
<persia> astraljava, Get better!
<rlameiro> they think we dont care, so we should show them otherwise
<astraljava> persia: Thanks!
<astraljava> Yeah okay, I was partly joking only.
<rlameiro> lol
<scott-work> ah, quadrispro has left already :(
<scott-work> hi rlameiro 
<rlameiro> scott-work: how is work?
<rlameiro> i386 is almost finished testing
<rlameiro> is there someone up to AMD64?
<holstein> i can
<holstein> do i need to?
<holstein> are they failing?
<rlameiro> AFAIK no, but at the moment i am testing the auto resize i386
<holstein> cool
<rlameiro> but if I start testing all the ISOS, i dont do nothing more today
<holstein> yeah
<astraljava> rlameiro: holstein: I did auto-resize for amd64 today, will do the others tomorrow if no-one else does before.
<holstein> astraljava: COOL
<holstein> thanks
<rlameiro> I can try to do the test, but i cant promise nothing
<rlameiro> I rather will save the blank DVDs for the final release :D
 * holstein got some DVD-RW's :)
<rlameiro> yeah, i need to buy some rw tooo
<scott-work> holstein: i was an alarmists, well meaning, but an alarmist nonetheless :P
 * rlameiro MAJOR FAIL --- ISO tester without RWsss....
<astraljava> Heheh. :)
<holstein> scott-work: about the iso's?
<holstein> or the failing?
<astraljava> Yeah I learnt that lesson back in the day.
<scott-work> holstein: the ISO and the failed builds
<holstein> hehe
<holstein> maybe an alarmed realist :)
<scott-work> apparently the building installable binaries in the email were before the ISO's were made and was fixed
<holstein> that happened to me last time
<holstein> i grabbed the builds *right* after i got the message they were ready
<rlameiro> scott-work: you werent the only, me too was kinda alarmed, I even commented it out with persia
<holstein> and blew about 3 hours testing with the old iso
<persia> We should probably identify someone to be *the* testing contact, who coordinates closely with the release and testing teams, and helps tell the rest of us when it's safe to pull the ISOs for testing.
<rlameiro> cwatson???
<rlameiro> lol
<holstein> yeah
<holstein> a liason
<holstein> iso-liason
<rlameiro> I dont see stochastic long time..
<holstein> yeah :/
<rlameiro> he is the "testers" boss :D
<holstein> i was thinking about stotastic a bit ago
<rlameiro> I wonder if he is ok....
<scott-work> i agree with persia , but i would rather that it is someone other than me :)
<scott-work> err, that was suppossed to be a  ;)  not a :)
<rlameiro> scott-work: I agree with you
<scott-work> i expect stochastic is just busy
<rlameiro> you cant do everything
<persia> Indeed, so whilst stochastic is away, we need someone to cover.
<rlameiro> and you need to be protected from burning out
<rlameiro> we had a lot of burn outs in the last years, i dont want that to happen with you....
<persia> I think the best protection against burnout is to have well-defined roles, and switch roles each cycle.
<persia> That said, I think it's best to have consistency in project leadership over longer terms (but to avoid burnout, that requires delegation of all the other roles)
<rlameiro> exactly
<rlameiro> I think tha holstein should be promoted and assigned as Recruiter
<rlameiro> he is ver active on IRC channels, people respect him alot
<persia> holstein, Are you up for that, in addition to being "Chief Master User Support Expert"?
<rlameiro> and he can see who is more time at the channel, and involved
<rlameiro> maybe he can pull out some of them to test stuff
<persia> Right, but he is also busy, for all those reasons.
<rlameiro> yeah
<rlameiro> true...
<rlameiro> well, maybe I should change the name, insted of recruiter, maybe "Ubuntu Studio PR person" :D
<rlameiro> he is a PR already ::D
<rlameiro> if he need to forward he can send to me the nicks of users, and i can explain how to test iso and stuff
<paultag> rlameiro, or put it on a wiki ;)
<rlameiro> he can be the "spliter
<rlameiro> paultag: yeap, that is a plan that we should do for natty
<rlameiro> we need to set especial parameters for our testing
<rlameiro> I need to finish my thesis until October end
<paultag> I hope ya'll don't mind if I don't find a "role" until the next cycle
<rlameiro> after that I am with more time
<paultag> I'm pretty locked up until the next cycle with my Ubuntu work :/
<paultag> +1 rlameiro 
<rlameiro> but beeing said that, i think that scott-work could organize some meeting to define what is the top 1 priority
<rlameiro> and then try to implement and assign responsabls people
<rlameiro> and maybe something between the IRC and Mailing list
<paultag> All I have to do is offload like 80% of my workload to other people and I can help here, heh :)
<rlameiro> there are a lot of user on the mailing list that doesnt come to the IRC
<holstein> persia: sure
<rlameiro> I can assign myself to design testing procedures, if scott-work  is ok with that
<holstein> seems like this iso-check master thing might be something less technical that i can handle
<rlameiro> but, i will need experienced input on it, i dont feel confident enough for that task alone
<astraljava> rlameiro: Great! Does that mean you'll be the testing "liaison", then?
<rlameiro> I know very few people working at canonical
<rlameiro> i think that would be someone "inside" the Core devs of canonical
<holstein> OH yeah, unless rlameiro wants to do it
<persia> There are lots of core devs who don't work for Canonical, and lots of folks Canonical hires to work on Ubuntu that aren't any sort of Ubuntu Developer.
<rlameiro> holstein: holstein we can work together, designing a test case doesnt seem to be hard, but there are lots of diferent cases we should addres, and 2 heads are better than one :D
<astraljava> I don't understand, I thought persia suggested someone from _our_ team?
<persia> astraljava, I intended to do so.
<rlameiro> ohh, ok
<astraljava> There are hardly any core devs here, not to mention Canonical employees. :)
<rlameiro> persia: so, how will it work?
 * persia believes there to be one core dev and two Canonical employees, but may be mistaken.
<rlameiro> the assigned person will receive direct information from the release team?
<persia> Also, I think those folk are busy enough with other things :)
<astraljava> Well, here, you have it right. But in the team, once Luke quit...
<persia> rlameiro, Basically, someone who hangs out on #ubuntu-testing and #ubuntu-release and follows what is happening, being sure to be aware of how the changes affect testing ISOs.
<rlameiro> humm
<persia> I'm sure charlie-tca or stgraber or someone could provide good insight into what is needed
 * persia has never held that role for any flavour, but sees others do it, with seemingly less confusion
<rlameiro> so the contacts is only to know what changed on the ISOs and warn people to strat testing
<rlameiro> or are there more stuff?
<rlameiro> maybe keeping track of testin schedule
<holstein> rlameiro: i think your the guy for the job
<holstein> if you want it
<holstein> how about you feel free to delegate whatever you need to me
<holstein> anytime
<holstein> and we talk quite often anyways
<rlameiro> well, i think i can try it
<paultag> I can try and help, if you need me
<rlameiro> maybe that was stochastic role IIRC
<holstein> paultag: :)
<persia> rlameiro, Right.  The role is for someone to keep track of schedule, respins, testing requirements, test coverage, etc.
<rlameiro> YAYYYYYY
<persia> That person would be expected to coordinate the testing *with the help of others*, mostly on #ubuntu-testing.
<rlameiro> i386 testing finished
<persia> And that person would be expected to help advise ScottL on when freeze exceptions would help or hurt the images.
<persia> \o/
<rlameiro> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/test/4599
<rlameiro> ok, I can try to do that
<rlameiro> are there some trainig sessions from the the testing team?
<persia> Dunno.  I strongly suggest asking charlie-tca or stgraber for advice.  They hold that role for Xubuntu and Edubuntu, respectively.
<persia> If you ask in #ubuntu-testing, others might chime in as well.
<scott-work> rlameiro:  you have my sincere +1 for testing
<rlameiro> ok
<rlameiro> I am talking with ara at the moment
<rlameiro> ok, need help in outline some optional test cases for Natty.
<rlameiro> what do you think about:
<rlameiro> Firewire hardware test
<rlameiro> USB hardware test
<rlameiro> Video camera hardware test
<rlameiro> Jackd test
<holstein> rlameiro: w00t
<scott-work> kernel test would be nice in some capacity for latency
<holstein> firewire :)
<scott-work> if a consistent person with the same hardware could test it
<rlameiro> yes, if there is a realtime kernel, we can also add a kernel test
<scott-work> not to split hairs mind you (i.e. 10msec vs 11msec)
<scott-work> but if a usual setting starts getting massive xrun (or a larger percentage)
<scott-work> just a gut feel test perhaps
<persia> I think the kernel latency testing shouldn't be part of validation.
<persia> But rather something separate, and special, that someone takes one, measuring latency over time, etc.
<rlameiro> persia: not for validation!!! that will kill testing
<holstein> optional test cases?
<rlameiro> yes
<persia> That is why I mention it :)
<holstein> you think that is the wrong place persia ?
<rlameiro> ara told me that next cycle they will have""" Mandatory - Run Once & Optional (meaning really optional) :)"""""
<holstein> maybe we can use that tracker layout either way
<rlameiro> optional at the moment needs to be tested at least once per ISO
<holstein> its really clear and easy to see what needs to be done for the test
<rlameiro> well, i will do the QA wiki for the testing cases
<persia> holstein, Either way: I just don't want to block a milestone waiting for the specific person with consistent hardware to verify we don't have a latency regression.
<rlameiro> but i could use some help making the specific procedures
<holstein> agreed
<rlameiro> persia: that was one of the things I wanted to be sure with ara
<holstein> additional optional test cases only +1
<rlameiro> this kind of test are for reference
<rlameiro> and mostly for the first release cycles to see if there are regressions
<rlameiro> for instance on FFADO drivers or stuff
<rlameiro> thqat way we can have time to ask for a respin 
<persia> Right.
<rlameiro> most of the time, people test if it installs ok and runs
<rlameiro> but there are more stuff to test, the installer is important, but also the rest
<rlameiro> i remeber the network manager problem.....
<persia> The installer isn't that likely to break, and most of it gets fairly well exercised by the server team.
<rlameiro> well, but actually, it is what is beeing tested :D
<persia> I'm reminded: it may be worth chatting with mathiaz about his test automation framework: he has some nifty way of automating the complete run of all the server testing.
<rlameiro> wow...
<rlameiro> like MACROS?
<persia> Um, no.  Something involving KVM and preseeding and stuff.
<rlameiro> oh
<rlameiro> that seems overkill for ubuntu studio
<persia> Why?
<persia> If it works, we can set up some number of test cases, and have a few folks run them.
<holstein> is that what would get us all the installer questions up front?
<persia> That would exercise the installer, and we could focus human attention on things that require GUI interaction.
<persia> holstein, I believe it not only gets the questions, but answers them in a preprepared manner, and then verifies the results match expectations.
<holstein> yeah, i like that direction if only for that reason
<rlameiro> haaaaa
 * persia attended a presentation about it once, but was mostly asleep at the time
<holstein> unattended installation
<rlameiro> i get it now
<rlameiro> so, it is like a remote test, automated to run each release
<rlameiro> and then ouputs a log
<rlameiro> seems a good aproach...
<rlameiro> persia: SORRY I DODNT GOT IT AT FIRST
<persia> It only tests the installer, mind you.  Won't test the apps.
<persia> rlameiro, No worries :)
<rlameiro> I oops caps
<rlameiro> it only works with the alternate right?
<persia> As far as I know, yeah.
<rlameiro> ok
<rlameiro> well, i need to go for groceries, then time to work on studio things
<rlameiro> video editing and wiki for test cases :D
 * rlameiro AFK
<scott-work> persia, holstein, rlameiro : i don't mean that we use the latency test to validate each ISO image, just that as a release the kernel should probably be tested to make sure performance is acceptable
<holstein> agreed
<persia> Indeed.
<rlameiro> scott-work, persia, holstein http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio
<rlameiro> paultag: also..
<paultag> Hum?
<paultag> Ah, cool. Thanks.
<persia> rlameiro, Nice work.  I'd recommend that for natty you align those to match the workflows ScottL has been asking folk to contribute though.
<rlameiro> i was thinking about that
<rlameiro> its a nice idea persia
<rlameiro> i really need input in other areas that not audio....
<persia> I think there's a huge opportunity for alignment in terms of testcases, documentation, and seed contents if we focus on the workflows.
<rlameiro> persia: yeah, maybe choosing one workflow for each type of test, and make it like to finish a task
<persia> That was my thinking, yeah.
<persia> And if we have to adjust a test because software changes in a cycle, we can adjust the documentation at the same time, and always have it accurate for each release.
<rlameiro> yea
<rlameiro> like jack changes...
<scott-work> rlameiro: good stuff, i like it :)
<scott-work> paultag: i neglected to tell you welcome...
<scott-work> paultag: welcome :)
<scott-work> glad you are here!
<paultag> ScottL, thanks :)
<paultag> ScottL, I'm trying to branch out a bit -- I've been locked up with LoCos for a while, about time I started helping with MOTU sports :)
<ScottL> paultag,  we sure appreciate your help :)
<paultag> :)
<ScottL> JFo, any word of late about getting the -lowlatency kernel into the archives?
<paultag> brb
<TheMuso> Did anybody start looking at merging the ardour security fixes from Debian?
<TheMuso> To hopefully get in post RC?
<TheMuso> Or a 0 day security update?
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-09-30
<ScottL> TheMuso, i have not, i doubt anyone else but quadrispro or persia would do such a thing
<TheMuso> ok
<ScottL> anyone interested: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Sandbox
<ScottL> ignore the beginners graphic box at first, look at the ubuntu studio one below it :)
<ScottL> i'd like to make a header like this for thw w.u.c. for ubuntu studio
<ScottL> i'm using the first graphic (beginners team) as a template
<ScottL> huh, i thought somebody would like the header graphic at the sandbox page :(
<persia> You don't even know if anyone looked at the page yet :p
 * persia thinks the header is a bit busy
<persia> Compare https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/Header (yeah, I should do something with that team)
<persia> Or https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Menu (and yeah, that team too.  One of these days I'll be caught up with my TODOs again)
<persia> Content still needs cleanup (nice to stick logs on other pages for reference, but not being main content; needs general review/cleanup so a Table of Contents reads sensibly; etc.)
<persia> ScottL, Als, Riddell was asking about publication in -release for other flavours: you may want to pipe up there.
<persia> s/Als/Also/
<ScottL> persia, what am i contacting riddell about in -release?
<persia> publication of RCs (if we're ready)
<ScottL> ah, will do
<persia> He'll explain in more detail than I understand if you ask.
<ScottL> persia, the header is rather busy, i agree...i'm just using it to get started, using the code :)
<ScottL> i'm still knocking it up mind you
<persia> Heh, OK.
<ScottL> persia, crisis averted ;) lol
<ScottL> so what happened during lucid?  who signed off then
<persia> luisbg
<persia> Or maybe Luke did, I may misremember.
<ScottL> persia, i spoke with doctormo about his wizardpen package, it hasn't been promoted into the archives and he hasn't filed a bug to do so either
<ScottL> i thought that i would speak with quadrispro first to see if it can get into debian, but if not, i'll file a bug for it and see about getting it into REVU
<persia> OK.  There's also some guide to "make Wacom work" that points at his PPA.
<ScottL> i did tell him that we would really like it in ubuntu studio, and it would therefore need to be in the archives before we could do that
<persia> I'll be seeing him in ~3 weeks, and will push on that idea some more.
<ScottL> do you know how well the wacom-tools package works?
<ScottL> what's happening in ~3 weeks?
<persia> Nope.  I haven't yet gotten enough desire to find out to get a Wacom :)
<ScottL> i'll try to keep reinforcing to him about getting it into the archives as well
<persia> UDS
<ScottL> oh yeah, duh :s
<holstein> hmmm
 * holstein has a wacom tablet
<holstein> an older one
<holstein> im not even sure if i would know if it was working properly though
<ScottL> lol
 * abogani waves
<astraljava> o/
<abogani> Who is Ralf Mardorf?
<abogani> Is he already know person inside Studio project or Ubuntu?
<astraljava> No idea, but saw his post just a while back.
<astraljava> LP doesn't really know him.
<astraljava> Seems to be pretty vocal on audio-related projects all over the 'net.
<abogani> Perhaps I misunderstood his email but he seems a troll to me.
<astraljava> I didn't get that impression. He just seems to be pretty serious about the latency, and knows what can affect that on a system.
<persia> Trick is balance of latency and featureset, which gets extra-complicated quickly.
<astraljava> All amd64 tests completed successfully.
<scott-work> awesome!
<scott-work> *sigh* hopefully soon, people will understand why we understand the -rt kernel is valuable, why we can't offer it in the ISO, andthat we are trying to provide the best solution for users as we can
<astraljava> Normally, people have limited understanding for middle-ground. It's one way or the other.
<scott-work> and i also appreciate ronj and rlameiro for jumping in the discussion on the mailing list
<scott-work> astraljava: true
<scott-work> astraljava: i think you were involved in one of the other kernel threads, thank you as well
<scott-work> it's frustrating at times, i got the sense that Ralf expected we just chose to remove the -rt kernels by choice, without warrant
<astraljava> scott-work: No need to thank, I just offered my limited resources for the process of providing a lower-latency kernel, whichever is to be decided on.
<astraljava> scott-work: Seemed that way at one point, yeah.
<scott-work> as if  we made such a gross change without intellectual consideration
<scott-work> i hope this email helps that
<astraljava> True.
<scott-work> this would be a good topic for the help.u.c. FAQ
<scott-work> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/FAQ
<astraljava> Sure would.
<holstein> i think abogani said it best
<holstein> when he called for assistance maintaining the PPA
<holstein> you can find just as many folk upset about the devices that didnt work with the RT kernel i bet
<holstein> or something RT related in a negative
<scott-work> i'm very happy that people are stepping up and offering to help
<scott-work> how that translates into how many people that actually help is to be seen, i guess
<scott-work> i know i would like to learn a little (or more) about how a -lowlatency kernel is compiled from the -generic
<scott-work> maybe abogani can write something up to help that
<holstein> and i think that should be mentioned as well
<holstein> the pro user might just want to make their own kernel anyways
<holstein> but nothing is really any different than before
<holstein> if the PPA keeps going
<holstein> and it thats well documented
<holstein> i think it will eventually be seen as a win-win
<scott-work> i hope that Ralf's influenze is clouding his thinking
<scott-work> he seems to not understand that it simply may not be possible to ship the -rt kernel
<scott-work> and seems rather fixated on it being available, to the exclusion that ubuntu studio is worthless without it
<holstein> yeah
<holstein> drop the hammer
<holstein> start a new thread
<holstein> 'the RT gospel'
<holstein> it is *gone*
<holstein> BUT available here 
<scott-work> maybe he just needs validation before he moves forward :)
<dholbach> hiya
<dholbach> did we hear any general problems about alsa xruns?
<dholbach> (10.10)
<scott-work> hi dholbach 
<scott-work> xruns with jackd?
<scott-work> i haven't heard anything specific...just the usual general rumblings about kernels, performance and hardware
<scott-work> that certainly isn't proof that people have not been experiencing it
<dholbach> no, no jack problem
<dholbach> ok, I'm having problems with xwax and alsa xruns
<holstein> hey rlameiro :)
<dholbach> alright, I'm heading out - see you
<holstein> dholbach: laterz
<rlameiro> cya
<rlameiro> holstein: :D
<rlameiro> how are you?
<holstein> good
 * holstein experimenting with jacktrip and netjack a bit today
<rlameiro> good
<holstein> giving up for now
<rlameiro> scott-work: hey :D
<rlameiro> mailing list is on fire :D
<holstein> right?
<holstein> RT warz ;
<holstein> )
<rlameiro> finally people care about something
<rlameiro> thats a good sign
<holstein> yeah, im glad to see the activiyty
<holstein> SO rlameiro , this VO
<holstein> ill totally do an english one
<holstein> but i think you should do one as well
<rlameiro> yes?
<rlameiro> will you record over, o make a new one?
<holstein> i think i'll just say 'choose your language'
<holstein> something like that
<rlameiro> yes
<holstein> the installer is in english anyways
<rlameiro> the idea is to explain more how the install works
<holstein> right?
<rlameiro> saying, that you can use the tab key to change to the buttons
<holstein> i think it would be nice to have this video with as many languages as possible over it
<rlameiro> explain the partition stuff etc
<holstein> we can get somebody to do 'austrailian' ;)
<rlameiro> yeah, i can dub it in portuguese, its not a problem
<holstein> we should be able to find a spanish speaker easy enough
<rlameiro> yeah, i think so
<rlameiro> and also french
<holstein> theres a couple regular germans in OSMP
<rlameiro> can be canadian too
<holstein> hehe
<holstein> rlameiro: whats the time frame for you?
<holstein> you want this before maverick is final right?
<rlameiro> yeap :D
<holstein> i'll try and get a version to you before next week
<holstein> what was the video syncing jack app you mentioned?
<holstein> i lost my scroll back :/
<rlameiro> Xjadeo
<rlameiro> you have it in ubuntu studio menu
<rlameiro> but you should use cli :D
<holstein> i'll see what i can do :)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-10-01
<paultag> Hey guys :)
<ronj> hai
<ScottL> hi paultag , ronj
<paultag> ScottL, howdy, you too ronj :)
<ScottL> http://www.fossmusicproject.org/public/images/website-mockup-2.png
<ScottL> mockup of a possible new ubuntu studio website
<ScottL> comments welcome
<rlameiro> I like it, a lot
<ScottL> oh, thanks :)
 * ScottL is blushing slightly
<persia> Unless we have some volunteer to produce news at least once a week, I'm very much against the "News" column
<persia> What is "Planet Studio"?
<persia> s/powerfull/powerful/
<persia> Layout, colors, etc. are prety :)
<ScottL> i would like to do quick news myself, for example, a few lines mentioning moving towards the -lowlatency kernel and trying to get it into the archives
<ScottL> being the default kernel
<ScottL> news about workflows, just mentioning it and the general idea
<ScottL> also the news would have rss feed
<ScottL> "planet studio" could be like ubuntu planet, blog aggregate for ubuntu studio users
<ScottL> ack'd spelling
<ScottL> thank you :)
<ScottL> .
<ScottL> one thing i forgot in the workflows would be watching a movie
<ScottL> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Workflows
<persia> Won't be like Planet Ubuntu then: it would be like Planet Ubuntu Users.
<ScottL> well, yes, that is technically correct then
 * persia thinks watching a movie is a Desktop task, and that we should just assume they got it right, and complain at them when they didn't
<ScottL> i thought we might consider vlc rather them totem or whatever is current
<persia> heh.  Sorry to be pedantic.  I get overfussy about some details.
<ScottL> i understand, in my bailiwick at work i am the same
<ScottL> but i wanted to solicit feedback from others about it
<persia> I think that, except where we can point at some specific reason not to do so, we'd do better to just use the stuff Ubuntu Desktop has.
<persia> So far, I think our exception list is as follows (but would appreciate correction):
<persia> 1) we want a lower-latency kernel
<persia> 2) we distribute audacious rather than rythmbox because we expect most of our users will not be using a music library, but rather playing recently created tracks or sampling tracks from others.
<persia> 3) We don't use network-manager because it has an unpredictable load profile
<persia> 4) We don't use indicator-me (or any of the instant-communication-social-media stuff) because it has an unpredictable load profile
<persia> So, if there was a decision to use, say vlc rather than totem, I'd be more likely to support it if there was a reason that we believed totem could adversely affect the workflow for our target users.
<ScottL> i that all tracks well and i can't think of anything contrary to point out
 * ScottL is restarting computer for updates
<persia> ScottL, Just to be clear, I'm opinionated, but don't necessarily want to impose my view.  I tend to think of ubuntustudio-desktop as being an alternative to ubuntu-desktop for folks that need to not have some stuff, rather than being especially cool or nifty or fun.
<persia> Whereas the rest of ubuntustudio-* tends to be collections of useful applications that can be installed on either ubuntu-desktop or ubuntustudio-desktop, depending on what the user needs as a base.
<persia> I'm not sure that this view of things is widely shared, or even aligned with the goals of the project :)
<ScottL> that's cool persia
<ScottL> i was just wondering if anyone had experience with vlc and if it was quite better than totem
<ScottL> i've read many times in paper and on the internet that vlc is quite ace but i really do not watch much video and have no experience really with vlc
 * holstein is a VLC fanboy
<holstein> its one of the first things i install
<ScottL> lol, xmarks is probably the first thing i install (for firefox bookmarks)
<holstein> chromium, and chrome has a thing built in
<holstein> bookmark sync
<persia> VLC does a lot of cool things that totem can't.  Totem tends to provide a more seamless user experience.
<holstein> the password sync is handy with xmarks though
<ScottL> holstein, did you see my website mock-up?   
<holstein> ScottL: hmmm
<ScottL> http://www.fossmusicproject.org/public/images/website-mockup-2.png
<holstein> pretty sure
<holstein> YEHA
<ScottL> i added another column and adjusted some spacings
<holstein> yeah*
<holstein> +1 on the layout
<ScottL> thanks
<holstein> extra column
<ScottL> generally the reception has been pleasantly positive
<holstein> im not a huge fan of the 'set your creativity free' font
<holstein> but i get the idea
<holstein> and the contrast is nice
<ScottL> you're not the first to mention that font :)
<ScottL> not liking it, that is
<holstein> eh
<holstein> i get it
<holstein> do your thing i say
<holstein> its clean and slick
<holstein> the whole unit
<holstein> i think if it was 20% less frilly
<holstein> that font
<persia> I think the frilliness is important.  I don't much like the font, but I like that it's frilly and italic.
<holstein> yeah
<holstein> sets it apart
<ScottL> i looked through *ALL* the fonts in inkscape and that was the best font i found ;)
<persia> And I think the contrast is important in terms of associating self-identification to Ubuntu Studio for target users, who often accept identities in contrast to that considered "regular" or "normal"
<persia> ScottL, Well then.  It's the right font :)
<persia> (unless someone wants to hand-draw the phrase)
<ScottL> i shall not live or die by this website and i am very open to suggestions
<ScottL> or change the phrase
<ScottL> or replace it with an image
<ScottL> a cool drawing done by a user could be awesome right there
<ScottL> i admit that i was thinking of troy a lot when i had been working on it, thinking, "what would troy say?" LOL
<ScottL> that's why i still want to really identify the audience more and their needs
<ScottL> i really like the logo with the word "experience" above and to the left, kinda hanging there
<holstein> yeah
<holstein> i gotta say
<holstein> i wasnt diggin the logo til this
 * persia misses blue but likes the logo overall
<ScottL> persia, do you mean the blue cof ?
<ScottL> like cory's logo https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Artwork/LogoRedesignV3
<ScottL> .
<ScottL> it's funny (and rewarding) how things like this come together
<ScottL> i had come up with a few things  http://scottalavender.deviantart.com/gallery/
<ScottL> and cory like how i had put the "t" and "d" together
<persia> Just blue in general.  The logo used to be blue.  But don't change it because of my nostalgia.
<ScottL> err, it was the "n" and "d"
<ScottL> but he also like how the "experience" logo had "ubuntu" and "studio" offset
<persia> 'n' could flow to either 't' or 'd', really.
<ScottL> and combined the two :)
<ScottL> mine was centered but i think the staggered look provides better anchors for other aspects
<ScottL> natty is stacking to be a big release :)
<astraljava> I'm with persia re: the blue color, it's somehow stuck in my mind as the color of US. :)
<astraljava> Otherwise, the mock-up for website is damn cool!
<abogani> URL?
<astraljava> I'm not a huge fan of putting the 'n' together with neither 't' nor 'd'.
<astraljava> abogani: http://www.fossmusicproject.org/public/images/website-mockup-2.png
<abogani> woooo impressive
<ScottL> thank you astraljava and abogani, it's not necessarily THE new website, it's just something i was inspired to make
<ScottL> but i'm glad you like it
<ScottL> i've been overwhelmingly surprised by the positive responses
<abogani> It's really cool
<ScottL> i am not intuitively good at art and design in the way that that i believe troy or cory are
<ScottL> abogani, thank you :)
<ScottL> abogani, i believe you were discussing ralf earlier, currently he seems a most unreasonable person due to his seemingly obsession with the -rt kernel :/
<abogani> When I read hist first email I thought that his was a troll.
<abogani> he*
<ScottL> heh, that is understandable
<scott-work> there is a new musescore update that fixes many bugs available
<scott-work> ScottK has asked if we would like it, presumably for maverick
<scott-work> if anyone would like to test it it is available at http://launchpadlibrarian.net/56895273/musescore_0.9.6.2%2Bdfsg-1ubuntu1_0.9.6.3%2Bdfsg-0ubuntu1.diff.gz
<scott-work> in fact it would be appreciate if someone did
<scott-work> i expect to see the doctor today for muscle problems in my back today and fully expect to be on muscle relaxers later and not fully functional ;)
* You're now known as ubuntulog
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-10-02
<ScottL> anyone able to help check a new version of musescore ?
<holstein> ScottL: i got it downloaded
<holstein> im going to look at it now :)
<holstein> ScottL: im not sure i know what to do with it
<ScottL> holstein, hi :)
<ScottL> i'm feeling pretty spacey right now, taking soma as a muscle relaxer ;)
<holstein> OH
<holstein> hope you get that sorted out :/
<holstein> sux
<ScottL> been having some escalating back problems and a previously damaged muscle has been progressively getting worse throughout this week
<ScottL> oh, i'll be fine after the muscle settles down :)
<holstein> COOL
 * holstein downloaded that .diff.gz
<ScottL> okay, here's what i think needs to happen
<ScottL> maybe someone watching can correct me
<ScottL> make sure you have a maverick install to use
<ScottL> make a cool directory to do this in
<ScottL> apt-get source musescore
<ScottL> apply the diff.gz
<ScottL> build the package
<ScottL> install it
<ScottL> run it
<ScottL> bend it to your will
<ScottL> okay, the last one was silly
<holstein> AH
 * holstein will have to get maverick installed on something
<holstein> that will take longer
<ScottL> i think most of that should be easily accessible to you
<holstein> i'll put it on an SD card
<ScottL> this might help to apply the debdiff  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/Debdiff
<ScottL> oh, that's cool (on a SD card)
<holstein> :)
<holstein> handy
<ScottL> CAN you put it on an SD card?
<ScottL> and have it boot?
<holstein> yup
<ScottL> wicked
 * holstein has an old EEEpc
<holstein> asus
<holstein> you can install to SD
<holstein> boot SD
<holstein> whatever
<holstein> its handy for testing
<ScottL> oh crap, you will need to download the dependencies before you try to build (unless you do it in ppa or pbuilder)
<holstein> well, let me get maverick installed on something
<ScottL> i might set up a pbuilder upstairs on my maverick install tonight and try as well
<holstein> and i'll see what i can do
<ScottL> sounds good
<holstein> ScottL: where did you get that diff?
<holstein> in a channel?
<ScottL> i'm feeling more lucid now that i was earlier (no pun intended)
<ScottL> holstein, it came from ScottK in #ubuntu-motu
<holstein> cool
 * ScottL is installing prevu upstairs right now
<ScottL> holstein, did you read my last email to ralf by chance?  was i an arse?
<ScottL> i worry that i was
 * holstein trying to sleep but the neighbors are loud :/
<holstein> ScottL: nah
<holstein> i didnt get an arse-like vibe
<holstein> to be honest, i stopped reading the bulk of that thread
<ScottL> i REALLY want people to understand that we aren't blithering idiots and the reasons why we do things
<ScottL> i think that is important to have educated users
<holstein> would be nice
<ScottL> holstein, sorry about the neighbors
<holstein> eh
<holstein> its cool
<holstein> they got a loud band
<holstein> usually pretty bad
<holstein> tonite is much better
<holstein> music-wise
<holstein> sounds like they brought in an actual band
<ScottL> lol, i guess that is good
<ScottL> persia or TheMuso, ScottK is asking about possibly adding extras.ubuntu.com to our sources.list, is this something we might desire?
<ScottL> i wouldn't think so myself, but i don't know all the in and outs
<holstein> ScottL: whats in there?
<ScottL> holstein, hmmm, i'm not sure, i thought i had an idea but i was wrong
<ScottL> apparently it for the new application approval process
<ScottL> i'm not sure there will be many new packages for audio that come through the new approval process
<ScottL> i would imagine we would get more through debian thanks to quadrispro
<ScottL> i think i would still like to get someone else's opinion with more experience though
<holstein> ScottL: im pretty sure ralf is trying to boot the newer RT ad realtime kernels in 64studio/hardy
<ScottL> holstein, i kinda washed my hands after his last email, he skipped all the important stuff (to me) and focused on the trivial items (to me)
<ScottL> but it is kinda surprising that someone who appears to be that knowledgeable about kernels is rocking 64studio
<ScottL> not that i am knocking 64studio as a distro, but rather that it really hasn't changed (my understanding) for quite a while
<holstein> i asked for clarification, but the latest mail looked like he was having issues with hardy/64studio
<holstein> who know whats in the 64studio repos that would not like the new kernel
<ScottL> very true
<holstein> yeah, 64 is dea
<holstein> d
<ScottL> my understanding is that daniel is working with some OEM people (indamixxx perhaps?)
<ScottL> custom tailoring an audio distro for some hardware providers
<holstein> i just wish the website said that
<holstein> it doesnt 
<ScottL> lol, yeah
<holstein> it says a new version came out several months ago
<holstein> and its a thriving community project
<ScottL> heh, i imagine that is rather frustrating for those who wish to still use (and get updates) for 64studio :(
<persia> ScottL, Up to you.  I'm not a big fan of extras, but we'll see how it turns out (either way)
<persia> !extras
<ubottu> extras.ubuntu.com is an external !repo for new software made available after the Ubuntu release.  This repository is not part of the Ubuntu distribution and the software is completely unsupported by the Ubuntu team, but the original authors may offer some support.
<holstein> lol
<holstein> amazing how many emails have been sent back and forth about ralf's rig
<holstein> and i still cant quite make out the facts ;)
<ScottL> it sounds like extras.ubuntu.com is a glorified PPA almost
<holstein> Oh
<ScottL> well, if you consider the support :P
<holstein> is that a suggestion about where we could house RT kernels?
<ScottL> i realize there is a (streamlined) approval process
<ScottL> holstein, probably not since i think this is a quasi-first step to getting packages into the formal archives
<ScottL> i think this just makes it available quicker before the next release
<persia> ScottL, It is a PPA
<ScottL> i'm presuming some of this however, based on other comments
<persia> Specifically https://launchpad.net/~app-review-board/+archive/ppa
<ScottL> persia, i don't like it and i think we should decline it
<ScottL> nothing is preventing users from adding it to their sources.list by their own volition
<persia> It's not in any way a quasi-first step to getting packages in the archives, from the last I heard, other than that someone might decide to take a package from there.
<ScottL> ah, okay
<persia> For myself, I'd rather catch people wanting to package stuff we want, help them get it into Debian, and backport it, but I've not been great at supporting that workflow, so I can't stand behind that viewpoint very strongly.
<ScottL> we have had some moderate success getting applications in debian first and then synced to ubuntu however :)
<ScottL> and since we are still currently in an LTS version i'm not sure a proper opportunity to backport has presented itself
<persia> We have, although, as you pointed out a few days ago, "ubuntustudio" is a huge tag on REVU.
<ScottL> *sigh* true, sad but true
<persia> If there were no Studio applications left on REVU, I'd be a lot firmer about my opinion.
<ScottL> i think some of those applications need to be evaluated, some have already been pushed through debian i believe
<ScottL> and i think jackmixer might already be in the archives (?)
<persia> We ought archive the ones that are in Debian.
<ScottL> if you will instruct me how to archive something in REVU i would be happy to effect the necessary ones this weekend
<ScottL> this would align the queue with reality and give us a better understanding
<persia> Indeed.
<ScottL> i could also coordinate with quadrispro with the remaining ones to get them into debian as well :)
<ScottL> quadrispro is amazing and ubuntu studio is very, very fortunate to have his efforts
<persia> heh.  At least we're smaller than "python"
<ScottL> lol
<persia> OK.  For archiving: if you look at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/jackpanel do you see an "archive" button?
<persia> (don't press it: it's not in Debian or Ubuntu yet)
<ScottL> the extras repository seems like a band aid instead of improving the REVU process
<ScottL> logging in
<ScottL> aye, i have an archive link in the upper right
<persia> I'm not sure that's fair.  Some of the discussions I was involved in at last UDS talked about improving the REVU process, and using the concept of an Application Review Board to do so.  We ended up with extras.ubuntu.com, which doesn't quite do that to my mind.  I'm not sure if this is a first step towards the solution or treatment of symptom rather than problem.
<persia> Excellent.
 * persia looks for one that needs archiving
<persia> ScottL, Are you able to archive http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/livemix ? (we have 0.49~rc3-0ubuntu5 in the archives, so REVU is newer, but it's not completely missing, plus one can unarchive)
<ScottL> sorry, was getting son settled, will check now
<persia> NO rush :)
<ScottL> apparently i did archive it
<ScottL> and i have now unarchived it
<persia> I'll let you decide how best to work with sbrunner to get it into Debian and up-to-date (likely for natty), and whether having it archived or not is best.
<persia> But at least you have permission to archive, and know how :)
<ScottL> indeed :)
<ScottL> holstein, i believe there is a disconnect with ralf but i don't think it is a language barrier, hopefully it is his influenza
<ScottL> but i would be interested in understanding why he says Ubuntu Studio Lucid will not boot
<holstein> well, we're back to the issue now
<holstein> he's about to respond to jeremy that he has an nvidia GPU
<ScottL> holstein, i'm also building musescore this morning (it takes a looong time with an older single core)
<ScottL> holstein, well that's a problem right there, is it not?
<holstein> we'll see if jermemy handles it in a way that ralf can understand
<holstein> yup
<holstein> and that was already mentioned way back at the beginning
<ScottL> jeremy = autostatic?
 * holstein not sure
<ScottL> re: mentioned way back, that could be the influenza that caused him to overlook that
<holstein> yup
<ScottL> although it is curious that he was a little short with others that he had mentioned his hardware specs earlier in the thread ;)
<holstein> yup
<holstein> thats the deal though
<holstein> i wasnt really sure what was going on there in that thread
<holstein> seems like it got steered to rt kernel talk instead of, x wont start
<holstein> i think it was bad timing
<holstein> with all the other RT talk going on
<holstein> now that i think about it
<holstein> i bet that was the goal at the beginning
<holstein> 'i cant get x to start with the RT kernel'
<ScottL> maybe :)  hopefully it gets sorted out
<holstein> and then it got around to
<holstein> 'NO, the rt kernel is great'
<holstein> somehow ;)
<ScottL> heh
<ScottL> holstein, you were right about the nvidia :)   but why does he have an ATI card installed but disabled?  curious and curious
<ScottL> are we heading down the rabbit hole?
<ScottL> lol, rereading i realized that should have been 'curiouser and curiouser'
<holstein> im going to try and set back and let jeremy have a go
<holstein> im pretty sure the -realtime kernel in falks ppa is abogani's with the patches for the nvidia drivers applied
<holstein> i'll try and confirm that, and offer it as a suggestion
<ScottL> it gets tough trying to remember which version is currently released
<ScottL> were still working (somewhat) on maverick which is about to be released
<ScottL> but devoting lots of cycles to natty
<ScottL> but we still support lucid
<ScottL> and it's confusing threading different requests when working on a particular release
<ScottL> .
<ScottL> i built and testing musescore for ScottK
<ScottL> it seemed to work okay (i'm not an expert or even a casual user of musescore however)
<ScottL> and reported back to ScottK
<ScottL> s/testing/tested
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-10-03
<ScottL> anyone heard of stretchplayer?  http://www.teuton.org/~gabriel/stretchplayer/
<ScottL> i read about it in an Linux Format article on Indamixxx and their OS Transmission
<ScottL> sounds like a good tool for guitarists :)
<ScottL> let's you change the speed of a song without changing the pitch
<paultag> ScottL, never heard of it, looks pretty rad, though
<paultag> I think I'm going to try it out :)
<paultag> ScottL, has anyone debianized it?
<paultag> Upstream has a Debian dir
<paultag> Ouch, looks like it's in bad shape
<paultag> fun! FTBFS
<paultag> Looks like it's targeted at Karmic. Must be stale packages.
<paultag> Wait, I'm an idiot. I did not have universe on my pbuilder.
 * jussi huggles paultag
<paultag> heyya jussi :)
<paultag> jussi, How's it going, man?
 * paultag huggles jussi back
<jussi> paultag: when did you arrive here? :D
<jussi> IM well, trying to back up and reinstall this machine for my sis-in-law
<paultag> jussi, I figured I'd start helping out around these parts, it's what got me into Ubuntu back in 08 from Debian
<paultag> jussi, woo :) 
<jussi> paultag: studio needs people like you, please stay! :D
<paultag> jussi, I'll stay, my friend :)
<jussi> i really should have done "dd if= of="...
<jussi> would have been much easier
<jussi> paultag: you going to UDS?
<paultag> jussi, it sure would, but remember that the archives are pretty huge, and it will only work if the partition is half the size of the dest drive ;)
<paultag> jussi, no, I did not get sponsorship :(
<paultag> jussi, but all my friends are, so life's OK
<jussi> paultag: ahh shucks
<paultag> jussi, it's OK, people that I love took my spot, so I can't complain
<jussi> Im going, found out fri/sat
<paultag> jussi, congrats!
<jussi> :)
<paultag> jussi, you took nigelb's spot 
<paultag> jussi, his visa got denied :(
<jussi> aww, poor guy
<paultag> US law is pretty silly
<paultag> jussi, give cztab a huge hug from me :)
<jussi> hehe
<jussi> paultag: a hug? she might not let me
<paultag> jussi, tell her it's from me :)
<jussi> I just hope I dont have any issues with the esta
<paultag> jussi, then duck the punch that she'll throw back at me
<jussi> haha
<paultag> jussi, you should be OK. I think it's based on a quota per country
<paultag> jussi, India has a TON of people on visas so it might be a lot harder
<paultag> if I understand the system right
<paultag> jussi, if not, fly into Mexico and get into the country that way
<jussi> hahahahahahhahaha
<paultag> :)
<jussi> far out! they are charging for esta's now?
<paultag> o.O :/
<paultag> I'll be right back jussi, time to get some foods :)
<ScottL> another website mock-up, with a few more things fleshed out  http://www.fossmusicproject.org/public/images/website-mockup-3.png
<frewsxcv> ScottL, i hope that's a joke
<frewsxcv> ScottL, sorry, i don't mean to be rude, but there are so many things wrong with it
<paultag> ScottL, I like the StretchPlayer, it's actually really cool, I used it to learn some Yann Tierson this afternoon
<paultag> ScottL, it's quite buggy, but nothing some love can't fix up nicely
<paultag> frewsxcv, I think the current website is better then that mockup, too. Not that my opinion counts much around here
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-09-26
<scott-work> gah, i've been so busy with work lately
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-09-28
<tarzeau> does it already ship darktable?
<astraljava> tarzeau: It's in the germinate logs, but haven't tested the actual image. I see no reason why it wouldn't, though.
<scott-work> knome: are you making any progress on the ubuntu studio website?
<knome> scott-work, sorry, haven't been able to work on it a fre days
<knome> err, few
<scott-work> knome: that's cool :)   i was just wondering
 * falktx_ replies to the pulse-jack topic
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-09-29
<scott-work> hi shnatsel, how are you doing?  is there anything you would like me to do to further the live dvd issue?
<shnatsel> scott-work: well, exact documentation on setting up local livedvd builds would be cool, but I doubt I can do anything at all at this point. I got totally swamped by RL stuff, like most contributors in here seem to.
<shnatsel> scott-work: this is all the info I managed to gather by now: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ME1KCYwWKmao8MdacAI3pk_N-CvYChOIaI_UvaJzrLM/edit
<scott-work> i can empathise with the swamped bit...work is the craziest i have ever seen i believe
<scott-work> i love the line "perform some mysterious setup" ;)
<shnatsel> scott-work: at the moment, this is all I have and I haven't got any time to investigate it further :(
<scott-work> i understand, and i'm sure it's frustrating that you can't find the one guy who can tell you, "oh, yeah, to do what you want, you just do this...."
<shnatsel> scott-work: well I found one but I had to torture him for half an hour to get the info in the doc
<shnatsel> oh well, gtg. physics.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-09-30
<knome> ScottL, ?
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-10-01
<ScottL> knome, sorry, been really busy, but i'm around today
<knome> np :)
<knome> new "featured" tab style at http://temp.knome.fi/ubuntustudio/www/
<knome> ScottL, ping me again when you are *actually* available :)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-09-24
<ailo-w> So, I got absolutely nothing done this weekend. Seems like here has been pretty quiet.
<astraljava> I imported my mom's pictures from her camera and cell phone to her computer. That was it for me as far as IT goes.
<ailo-w> astraljava: Sounds like a nice weekend then
 * smartboyhw hopes for astraljava's full return:)
<ttoine> hi
<smartboyhw> Hi ttoine
 * smartboyhw goes to post the half-spam message about Beta 2 testing or should he not?
<ttoine> Just to tell that if lightworks is really released for Ubuntu at the end of the year (it is already open source released for windows) it will rocks the -video production
<ttoine> meaning that we don't need anymore OpenShot nor Cinelerra
<len-dt> ttoine, sounds good, maybe run that through Scott when he comes on or post on the list. My use of video apps is nil so far.
<ttoine> len-dt: ok
<len-dt> ttoine, just reading the stuff from the other channel. ailo seems to know more about it than me too... sounds like he is interested too.
<ttoine> len-dt: http://www.lwks.com/
<ttoine> just have a look by yourself
<smartboyhw> Hi scott-work
<smartboyhw> Hi ailo-w 
<smartboyhw> wb actually
<ttoine> scott-work: hi
<ttoine> scott-work: http://www.lwks.com/ just have a look, it is open source released this year for windows, and is scheduled for Linux for the end of the year !
<scott-work> hi smartboyhw
<smartboyhw> :)
<ailo> openshot to me is a great tool for non experts
<ailo> And it filles a workflow task for people who want to edit things quickly and put it up on Youtube
<ailo> But, surely, Lightworks should make life livable for video experts
<scott-work> ailo: do you they have a linux version available yet? i might be misremembering, but it seemed like they didn't have one yet months ago
<smartboyhw> scott-work, it is coming at the end of the year. I think
<scott-work> hmmm, i look forward to seeing how it works, especially compared to kdenlive
<ailo> scott-work: All I know is that it's been cooking for a while, but from what ttoine says, it's not far from being released
<ailo> steam is another welcome addition to Linux, all though, not open source. And a totally different subject
<ailo> smartboyhw: I didn't misunderstand you. From reading https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/QuantalTestcaseUpdates/UbuntuStudioTestcase there are items that we don't need to check for Ubuntu Studio
<ailo> And as a first step, I'd like to remove those items, or mod them for our case
<ailo> The simpler we can make it, the easier it will be to get people to do the testing too, so that is always in my mind
<smartboyhw> ailo: Remove them I don't mind:) 
<ailo> smartboyhw: It was not criticism in my post. Just putting my thoughts about it. I could do some editing on that subject, but I haven't had any hand at desktop customization yet(or very little), so it would be better if someone else who did would do those edits
<ailo> i.e. len-dt, or scott-work 
<smartboyhw> desktop customization...len-dt you good at this?
<scott-work> lightworks for linux currently schedule for Oct 30th: http://www.lwks.com/index.php?option=com_kunena&func=view&catid=12&id=1983&limit=6&limitstart=30&Itemid=81
<scott-work> fourth post down
<smartboyhw> Let's wait then
<scott-work> i should say that was an _alpha_ scheduled for Oct 30th
<scott-work> smartboyhw: i am curious if lightworks will be in the repos, it certainly would not have been previously, but i suppose changes to policy and the "app store" mentality of software-center might allow lightworks to be included now or soon
<smartboyhw> Ooh!
<scott-work> alhtough one of the comments in that thread mentioned that they wanted to experience between ubuntu and windows versions of lightworks to be identical...that is good news to me
<smartboyhw> :)
<ailo> scott-work: len-dt: I was airing the idea of customizing xubuntu as little as possible some time ago, for the sake of economic maintenance. This is one situation where that would simplify things a bit. It's not a huge deal for me, but just a thought. Seems logic to me, to put all of the focus on the multimedia applications, and do as little customization to Xubuntu as possible.
<scott-work> ailo: i completely agree with staying as close to xubuntu for exactly the same reasons
<ailo> scott-work: I guess our customization is pretty sparse at this moment? nautilus, gnome-system-monitor 
<smartboyhw> ailo, scott-work, len-dt: You continue with the discussion,and for the testcase send an email to the dev list on what conclusion you guys have. I need to go to sleep now. 
<ailo> smartboyhw: Sleep well. Good work on the test cases
<smartboyhw> :) That is what earns me being a Testcase Admins:) cya everyone:) continue tmr:)
<scott-work> ailo: aye, that and the distributor logo and a few icons, i think len-dt was talking about adding a new icon package though
<ailo> Ok, so in the case of nautilus, we do need to do some testing. Other than that, I don't see anything in the regular desktop environment we need to do, other than our own custom starters in the menu.
<ailo> scott-work: How about the volume applet? I remember there was something about that. Right now, I'm not seeing it at all
<scott-work> ailo: good point, we probably do need to check that. we might need some input from astraljava to understand what exactly we might check
<ailo> scott-work: Apparently, the volume applet has become functional again, and from what I can find in ubuntustudio-default-settings, we don't have anything custom for it, more than it bein in our seeds
<ailo> Two packages: indicator-sound-gtk2 and indicator-sound
<ailo> Well, as dependencies or whatever. Haven't really checked the seeds
<ailo> Yep, it's all there
<ailo> astraljava: What was the deal with the volume applet and the mixer for 12.04? Do we have custom code for it?
<len-dt> ailo_, re. icons... I am not suggesting a full icon package, just icons to cover our custom menu needs. Right now we are using whatever looks nice from the icons that are there already.
<len-dt> any of those might change names or vanish. So for insurance we should have our own icons for *desktop/*directory files we make up.
<len-dt> Hmmm, no new ISO today.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-09-25
<astraljava> ailo_: We had some preferring of Pulse and pavucontrol for it, but I forget now when and why it was needed. Must check the source.
<smartboyhw> Hi scott-work 
<len-dt> scott-work, there seems to be a difference in how the ISOs are built. When I plug the USB stick in I get a message asking if I want to upgrade my distro. some one has been working on the installer...
<smartboyhw> len-dt, Oh!
 * smartboyhw is still zsyncing the ISO
<len-dt> smartboyhw, it has actually been that way for a few days now.
<smartboyhw> Oops
 * smartboyhw has not tested since bets 1
<smartboyhw> *beta
<len-dt> NP
<len-dt> There was talk about making the live ISO work more like the alt ISO and I think this is just part of that.
<smartboyhw> len-dt, yes true
<len-dt> so my comment is more of a heads up that the work does seem to be happening.
<smartboyhw> ;P
<len-dt> anyway, I'm off to work, scott-work or whoever, feel free to leave comments for me when I return...
 * len-dt shuffles off out the door...
<smartboyhw> ...
<astraljava> Hey team, heads up: QA contact person position up for grabs, anyone from the team can do it. Preferably start immediately, so you'll be up and running by the time R cycle begins. 
<astraljava> Responsibilities normally include keeping in sync with flavor AND vanilla development, reporting in QA meetings. Reporting to -release is between you and project leader.
<astraljava> Salary: Negotiable, with whoever sponsor you manage to dig up. :D
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-09-26
<smartboyhw> Now where is ailo!?!!?!?!
<astraljava> I think he mentioned he'll be around mostly during the weekends nowadays.
 * smartboyhw forgotten to read the backlogs oh no:P
<smartboyhw> astraljava, what's this?:P
<smartboyhw> astraljava	Hey team, heads up: QA contact person position up for grabs, anyone from the team can do it. Preferably start immediately, so you'll be up and running by the time R cycle begins. 	17:05
<smartboyhw> astraljava	Responsibilities normally include keeping in sync with flavor AND vanilla development, reporting in QA meetings. Reporting to -release is between you and project leader.	17:06
<smartboyhw> astraljava	Salary: Negotiable, with whoever sponsor you manage to dig up. :D
 * smartboyhw finds reading the backlog is quite useful!
 * smartboyhw can surely be a QA Contact person hope astraljava doesn't mind:P
<astraljava> Right, so unless anyone objects, I'm handing over my responsibilities to smartboyhw. I'll start actually rehearsing and recording my own music in the near future, so won't have time for more constant presence of the flavor anymore.
<astraljava> Scott is already aware of my departure from this role, and both the QA and the release teams are aware of the change.
<holstein> astraljava: that sounds like good news for you!... making music!!
<astraljava> My other (possible) contributions will likely be more of the bug fixing and new development nature.
<astraljava> holstein: It totally is!
<holstein> astraljava: you're not going MIA thought, correct?
<astraljava> It's been a dream for so long, but there have been other issues standing in the way.
<astraljava> No, I'll definitely hang out in here, and #osm, for sure.
<holstein> astraljava: cool!...i look forward to hearing some tunes
<astraljava> Will be needing you folks' instructions, a lot! :)
<astraljava> It'll take time, for the first few anyway. But I'm confident I'll pick up pace as I go.
<astraljava> Ok, heading home now. I guess that's the first pre-requirement. :D
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-09-27
 * smartboyhw wonders can Beta 2 be marked ready
<astraljava> Were there any testers?
<smartboyhw> astraljava, well there is one (me) on amd64 and another volunteer for i386...
<astraljava> How were the results? Were the required tests successful?
<smartboyhw> astraljava, successful:D (Though actually we can handle 1 of the 4 testcases) and I think it can be marked ready....Not much new on beta 2 anyway
<astraljava> Yeah, if there were no alarming issues found while testing, I suppose it's only for the better to get it out there for wider testing. Beta-2 is usually very tempting already for the bigger masses.
 * smartboyhw thinks it is true and now waits for scott-work to appear.
<knome> astraljava, are you calling me fat?
<smartboyhw> LOL
<astraljava> knome: When have I ever not?
<knome> right.
<astraljava> smartboyhw: Are you familiar with ubuntu-utah-devel@lists.u.c?
<smartboyhw> astraljava, er no:P
 * knome listens too.
<astraljava> Seeing that you're now more interested about test cases, automation should be the obvious next step.
<smartboyhw> len-dt you here? Would you like to help test the i386 iso? Only one guy is not enough:P
<astraljava> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/Ubuntu-utah-devel
<astraljava> knome: I was planning to mention this to elfy as well.
<astraljava> But do you wanna?
 * smartboyhw rather wants astraljava to talk about it in #xubuntu-devel so everyone can listen:P
<knome> astraljava, you should
<astraljava> I don't have time for longer chat, and I don't really know about it that much. But it was certainly on my mind when I wanted to develop our QA processes.
<knome> yep, sounds like a natural next step
 * smartboyhw thought that testcases are about those in the ISO QA Tracker:P
<smartboyhw> Welcome scott-work :)
<smartboyhw> scott-work, are you going to sign off the image?;)
<astraljava> seb128 | I'm sorry but it's just not realistic to expect me or whoever upload glib and gtk to be responsive for ever years old unmaintained universe source
<astraljava> some of our packages won't probably be around much longer... ^^
<smartboyhw> astraljava, sad news then
<smartboyhw> testers here? Please test the i386 build, not all of the mandatory  tests are not being run and skaet is saying that we may just not go and release it. ailo, len-dt astraljava if you can do help
 * smartboyhw will do the amd64 one
<scott-work> smartboyhw: i will be doing it, i had thought i already had
<smartboyhw> scott-work, no now skaet said no one is doing the mandatory testcases and no Beta 2 if no test
<scott-work> i may log on, but the is generally a formality when i have people at my desk needing help, messages on my phone, and email waiting to be answered...all related to work
<smartboyhw> ok
<scott-work> right, how many tests are left and how much time do we have left?
<astraljava> I'll see if I can test i386 when I get home, but it won't happen very soon, ETA in about 2 hours or so.
<smartboyhw> scott-work, tests: i386 auto-resize and manual partitioning
<smartboyhw> time: dunno
<smartboyhw> amd64 one left I will do it
<smartboyhw> time: 1 hour at least
<scott-work> since my boss was fired (which was really an ill conceived insertion between me and the VP of engineering) i have been much, much more busy with work
<smartboyhw> scott-work, oh ok
<scott-work> i don't like this...i don't like it at all
<smartboyhw> :(
<scott-work> partly because it detracts from other things, but also because it's stupid
<scott-work> i say stupid because there are problems that i shouldn't have to address
<scott-work> so i'm working on a developing a framework here at work that should eliminate (or at least mitigate) their interference with me and my department
<scott-work> i _had_ planned on minimizing my efforts with studio for this cycle in order to work on producing some content, i haven't even had time to really do that :(
<scott-work> i'm quite frustrated and pissed about it
<smartboyhw> OH no
<smartboyhw> OK test finished yay!
<micahg> astraljava: what's the problem with glib?
<micahg> is this for the rebuild failures?
<smartboyhw> Images ready guys:)
<astraljava> micahg: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/09/27/%23ubuntu-devel.txt, from 12:54 onwards, party includes doko & seb128. Specifically our package libgstreamermm-0.10-2 is affected.
<smartboyhw> Bye all:)
<micahg> astraljava: right, I'll try to tackle those rebuild failures next month (although, idk if I'll get it in time for final freeze)
<micahg> doko and seb128 had a similar exchange last cycle
<astraljava> You could kinda tell from this one that it wasn't the first. :)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-09-28
<len-dt> Hmm, to late to test it seems sorry guys. My only comment is that we are still missing the photography and publishing metas.
<len-dt> It may be an idea to just add the metas to the desktop as depends for now. We don't have any way of choosing what metas to not install anyway right now.
<micahg> len-dt: let me take a quick look
<len-dt> OK
<micahg> len-dt: livecd-rootfs needs to be updated
 * micahg attempts an update
<micahg> len-dt: this should fix it, sorry that I didn't think of it before
 * micahg isn't so familiar with all the image building tools yet
<len-dt> Thankyou. When is the next ISO roll
<micahg> should be around 1800 UTC
<len-dt> I'll check after then
<micahg> len-dt: is there a bug I should close?
<len-dt> Bug #1057816 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1057816 in ubuntustudio-meta (Ubuntu) "ubuntustudio live ISO does not include publishing and photography metas even though seeds are configured to do so." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1057816
<micahg> got it, thanks
<len-dt> micahg, I closed 1028938 because the metas were already there and working 
<micahg> that's fine
<micahg> len-dt: ok, should be in the queue momentarily
<len-dt> Sounds great. Thank you again.
<micahg> glad I finally figured it out :)
<len-dt> That was the last thing on my list for this release.
 * len-dt wanders off to bed
 * micahg wishes he could do the same
<smartboyhw> Just a remark: Anyone who has subscribed the  Studio testcases before mid-September in the ISO QA Tracker please re-subscribe, since the testcases are changed.
 * smartboyhw finds that https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/TeamStructure is really a bit messy:P
<smartboyhw> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Leaders is much clearer:P
<astraljava> Yes, well, the other only describes one category only. Feel free to modify it, but don't lose any data.
<smartboyhw> astraljava, I will just create another page for the draft:P
<astraljava> Sure.
<smartboyhw> astraljava, look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/TeamStructure/smartboyhwDraft and tell me what did I do wrong please:P
<astraljava> Hmm... you should ask Scott. IMHO, it should still be team-based, not person-based.
<astraljava> But I might be alone with my views, so show it around.
<knome> i personally believe those teams that need member tracking can do it in launchpad
<knome> and with this amount of contributors, it's a no-brainer to anybody in the community to know what others are working
<knome> while the new format is more compact, it's harder to get a quick overview of "who is working on documentation", for example
<smartboyhw> Hi scott-work 
<smartboyhw> scott-work, are you going to send the email to the release meeting today?
<smartboyhw> astraljava, what do you think about the new team members page?:P
<scott-work> good morning, smartboyhw , i was probably neither going to send an email or attend, too much going on at work currently
<smartboyhw> scott-work, OK:P
<holstein> smartboyhw: i gtg.. dont let them push you around in there ;)
<smartboyhw> holstein, what?
<smartboyhw> holstein, srsly, what are you talking about?:(
<smartboyhw> scott-work, can I just help to take over sending the emails to the release team in the future? (Since I didn't see you sending the emails in the past few meetings and smartboyhw is free to send the emails:))
<holstein> smartboyhw: i was just talking about the main support channel.. not letting anyone push you around while im gone
<smartboyhw> holstein, ah
<scott-work> smartboyhw: absolutely (re: sending emails)
<micahg> scott-work: did you hear the news?  today's ISO if it builds should have all the metas on it
<scott-work> micahg: i read the email exchange between you and len, i'm very happy to hear about this
<scott-work> micahg: was the problem that we needed to "register" the meta's with cjwatsons software/repos/report/whatever it was?
 * scott-work recalls now that when 'generation', 'recording' and other metas were initiated we needed to let cjwatson know
<smartboyhw> scott-work, thx
<micahg> scott-work: the metas that go on the live image are listed in the livecd-rootfs package
<smartboyhw> Bye all
<len-live> As of todays ISO we now have publishing and photography applications. Yahoo!
<astraljava> Cool! But I prefer Google anyway.
<len-dt> astraljava, ??
<astraljava> re: len-live | [...] Yahoo!
<astraljava> I apologize.
<len-dt> Ok, I got it :)  Lens kinda out of sorts right now... someone cashed a post dated cheque I wort a few weeks before I have the money.
<astraljava> Ouch.
<len-dt> Ya, I need it for mortgage Monday
<astraljava> I'm sorry... :(
<len-dt> Oh well, I am sure it will get sorted out. Either the guy gives it back or I get the bank to reverse it.
<astraljava> Right.
<astraljava> Thumbs up!
<astraljava> How is Vancouver doing, what with the lockout and all that?
<len-dt> Anyway, US is about ready I think now.
<astraljava> Great news!
<len-dt> I am not sure... I don't watch the news much... and moved here to get away from Vancouver :)
<astraljava> What, freenode?!
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-09-29
<len-dt> The Island
<astraljava> Yeah ok. :)
<len-dt> I'm in the Comox Valley
<astraljava> Oooh! What a wonderful-looking Park right next to you!
<astraljava> How's your commute?
 * astraljava was just recently hiking beyond the Polar Circle.
<astraljava> Damn, what I wouldn't give to be able to explore British Columbia.
<astraljava> Also, Devin lives there. :)
<len-dt> My commute to work is about 7 minutes.
<len-dt> Our favourite place is the Sandy Island Marine Park
<astraljava> Awww...
<astraljava> No fair!!!
<len-dt> Every place has their places to go that are special. We had a set of places we visited on the lower mainland as well.
<len-dt> This is nice though. :)
<astraljava> Sure, but that's way different from what we have.
<len-dt> Way different from Calgary where I grew up too.
<astraljava> Heh, so you're a Flame at heart, then? :)
<len-dt> The Flames did not exist by the time I moved away.
<len-dt> I think the major sports team was the Stampeders 
<astraljava> Tigers?
<astraljava> Oh, you're not _that_ old.
<astraljava> *smirk*
<len-dt> Half century
<astraljava> Stampeders look like the major team, yeah.
<len-dt> Almost a retired fart
<astraljava> There's still that almost at the beginning. :)
<len-dt> beginning of what? Still lots of life left. Maybe I am old enough to use it wisely :P
<astraljava> Beginning of that sentence. :)
<len-dt> Wow, our live testing sure shows a lot of bugs to look for
<len-dt> Hmm, most of them are not ubuntustudio bugs
<len-dt> Why did we add more test cases? It is not like we are overflowing with testers... or time.
<len-dt> We should be testing things that are unique to our own flavour.
<astraljava> len-dt: I'm thinking Howard just added something from Xubuntu or whatever. Talk to him about what things you feel are redundant with other flavors/vanilla.
<astraljava> But from purely QA POV, everything should be tested on every flavor as well. If not for package consistency, then integration-wise.
<ailo> astraljava: I also don't see the point in testing for bugs that are not Ubuntu Studio specific. 
<ailo> That would just leave less room for what we are trying to do
<ailo> len-dt: Are you talking about this page? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/QuantalTestcaseUpdates/UbuntuStudioTestcase
<ailo> I was working on reducing it, and adding something
<ailo> I'll make the changes later today
<astraljava> ailo: Just to rule out there aren't any weird settings that might cause issues with more standard apps. This is pretty basic IT QA.
<ailo> astraljava: That's why I was trying to get a picture of what is custom for Ubuntu Studio before
<ailo> So, we know which apps to test
<ailo> Talking with Scott about it, I think most people would agree that we should try avoid making custom changes to the Xubuntu desktop as much as possible for maintenance reasons
<ailo> Which also will reduce the amount of testing required
<ailo> From our point of view, what we want is a good platform for multimedia production, and if we can happily ignore as much as possible of anything else, we save time and energy to do what it is we want to do
<ailo> What grieves me the most right now is things like the jackd bug on 12.04
<ailo> Things that are really important for us, but we haven't been able to fix in one way or another
<astraljava> Yeah, that makes sense.
<ailo> I changed the page, but it's still pretty much under construction https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/QuantalTestcaseUpdates/UbuntuStudioTestcase#preview
 * smartboyhw is happy ailo edited the testcase:P
<ailo> Ok, so 10/10 is the deadline. I'll have another go att looking through until then.
<ailo> Before then, I mean
 * smartboyhw says there aren't actually a deadline it is just set by me :P
<ailo> Well, it's a good time as any
<smartboyhw> :P
<len-dt> ailo, I am not sure why we are testing three different partitioning options.
<len-dt> ailo, I am having a hard time seeing how that could be different for US from vanilla
<len-dt> I am having a hard enough time finding time to test case for installs (missed beta 2 all together)
<len-dt> astraljava, has xubuntu had any issues (either 12.04 or 12.10) with not being able to dismount a USB stick mounted by thunar/tumblerd?
<ailo> len-dt: Partitioning?
<ailo> len-dt: Unable to dismount, if any of the folders on the usb device are opened by a file manager?
<ailo> Lately I've seen that unmounting is not possible if nautilus has opened something on the device
<ailo> Or am I dreaming?
<ailo> never mind. I'm about to soon anyway
<ailo> len-dt: I guess we should test both install methods, but as for partitioning, I agree. Serves no purpose for US
<len-dt> ailo, even if no folders on the USB device are being used, but have been.
<len-dt> ailo, for example, put USB stick in and mount. Copy file to USB stick. Click on dismount triangle, FM goes to home directory and file finishes copying... that is activity light on USB device shows idle. Sign comes up saying device is busy. Close FM, reopen to home, still can't dismount.... check what app is holding it. tumblerd shows up kill tumblerd ... now I can dismount.
<len-dt> ailo, none of the files copied seem to have been cut short by killing tumblerd.
<astraljava> len-dt: I'm not aware, but then I haven't tested recent releases myself at all.
<len-dt> astraljava, it is only something I found through daily use. Once off testing may not show it. And I haven't really tested 12.10 well in this respect because we ship nautilus as default.
<astraljava> Yeah. I don't currently even have a machine with Xubuntu on it, anyway, so I cannot verify this.
<acmeinc1> i do, though I missed the question :)  
<len-dt> acmeinc1, I have had problems with thunar/tumblerd releasing a USB stick for dismount
<len-dt> (in 12.04)
<acmeinc1> did you try running 'sync 'from the command line before clicking the "eject" button?  i've always had problems w/ usb sticks and xubuntu
<len-dt> I have, that did not help. I had to kill tumblerd
<acmeinc1> ah, alright, then i'm not aware of anything...i can confirm my method has worked in the past, nothing has come up related to what you are seeing though
<len-dt> Not always, but 50/50 or worse.
<len-dt> Ok, I'll do more testing once I install 12.10 for daily use and not just quick tests.
<len-dt> If I can get a set of steps that seems to always show the problem, I can bug it.
<astraljava> len-dt: Have you asked on #xubuntu*
<len-dt> Not so far, but at this point as I have not found the problem on 12.10 beta, only 12.04, I don't want to confuse things :)
<astraljava> Yes, but that's an LTS, so if there's a bug, those people might wanna know. :)
<len-dt> Yup, when I have time for better testing. My computer time since Sept has been a lot less.
<len-dt> I want to make sure I describe exactly what I am doing
<astraljava> Well yeah, that's good for bug reporting. But if someone there has time, you could just give them a heads-up. Who knows, maybe someone there can thoroughly triage it in beforehand.
<len-dt> I'm also kinda worn out of the development thing for a bit.... I want to make some music for a change
<astraljava> Now with that I can whole-heartedly relate to. :)
<len-dt> Ok, I have set the question in xubuntu-devel.
<astraljava> Thanks! :)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-09-30
<smartboyhw> len-dt, you said you don't know why do we have three partitioning options. balloons (Canonical Community QA Manager) forced me to. Don't worry I will intergrate them and make it into one:P
<smartboyhw> Grr added it go to http://packages.qa.dev.stgraber.org/qatracker/milestones/225/builds/16300/testcases to check it out!
<len-dt> smartboyhw, That is much better.
<smartboyhw> len-dt, :P
<len-dt> I like having post install separate.
<len-dt> Can we change the "Family" to Ubuntu Studio? It may be a little less confusing for someone.
<smartboyhw> len-dt, wait what family?
<len-dt> A lot of the test cases use the word "Family" where I would expect the name ubuntu studio
<smartboyhw> Wait...
<len-dt> http://packages.qa.dev.stgraber.org/qatracker/testcases/1338/info
<smartboyhw> len-dt, that is actually a new feature of the ISO QA Tracker
<len-dt> OK
<smartboyhw> The variable FAMILY has been set to Ubuntu Studio in the testsuite:P
<len-dt> So when it goes live it will be right?
<smartboyhw> len-dt, it will show the same thing in the info page, but the people will see the right thing in the normal testcase reporting page
<len-dt> Ok, sounds good.
<smartboyhw> :)
<len-dt> smartboyhw, I would suggest that when selecting a username password for testing that they be throw away names not real ones
<len-dt> that way if there are bugs with the installer all the log files can be sent open
<len-dt> for example I use joe tester with a password testing
<smartboyhw> len-dt, where?
<len-dt> for test install
<smartboyhw> OK
<smartboyhw> len-dt, not understanding now....
<len-dt> Final install with a real name pw should be ok.
<len-dt> if the installer crashes, the ubuntu-bug runs on it's own and wants to send log files to the bug track
<len-dt> in those files are the username password that the user put in
<len-dt> The installer has gotten a lot better and I have not had it crash on me for some time, but it is still in active development
 * len-dt is talking about ubiquity
 * smartboyhw is not understanding which step:P
<smartboyhw> Step 27?
<len-dt> yes 27
<smartboyhw> OK so you want them to provide false info?
<len-dt> I am not sure how to word this
<len-dt> but yes.
<smartboyhw> OK
<len-dt> though I don't think at this point there will be much changes to the installer, I am thinking for next cycle
<smartboyhw> len-dt, check again under step 27
<len-dt> I would add "for testing" to the end of that line
<smartboyhw> OK
<smartboyhw> len-dt, check again:P
<len-dt> Yup looks good
<smartboyhw> len-dt, :)
<smartboyhw> ailo_, any comments?
<len-dt> I have had ubiquity crash on me many times while testing and then get asked if they can send the file with my id and PW that is why I started using fake ones
<smartboyhw> len-dt, ah:P
<len-dt> What is painful is that often someone else has had the same bug, but I can't look at it to confirm because the info is closed. I always go in and make sure it is open on my bugs so other can see
<smartboyhw> len-dt, good choice:)
<smartboyhw> Oh no:P
<smartboyhw> Welcome back len-dt :P
<len-dt> just let software update. New fix in for gstreamer...
<smartboyhw> len-dt, good:P
<len-dt> didn't seem to work so I rebooted
<smartboyhw> Ah
<len-dt> still doesn't work
<smartboyhw> len-dt, oh no.....
<len-dt> something is odd anyway
<smartboyhw> Hmm
<len-dt> I'll try a different app
<smartboyhw> len-dt, a few weeks ago I talked about https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio/+bug/1041882 which you think you have fixed it.....So did you reupload the fix?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1041882 in Ubuntu Studio "Ubuntu Studio 12.04.1 does not have help" [Undecided,New]
<len-dt> I thnk the fix is there but not released
<len-dt> That is commited
 * smartboyhw figures that is a problem
<len-dt> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio-default-settings/UbuntuStudio.precise/revision/123
<smartboyhw> Gee that IS weird
<len-dt> It has to get approval or sru or whatever.
<len-dt> Fixes three bugs (three commits)
<smartboyhw> Hmm....
<len-dt> firefox doesn't seem to use gstreamer
 * smartboyhw finds out the help link in 12.10 and 12.04 are actually differenty
<smartboyhw> *different
<smartboyhw> len-dt, I looked at the ubuntustudio-default-settings package in Precise and finds out that the package has NOT been updated. Maybe you have to rebuild it....
<len-dt> I can't, I can only commit to it. 
 * smartboyhw thinks len-dt can build the package and then ask a MOTU to sponsor it
<len-dt> The package is there (the old one) I don't know what this would be called (SRU, backport?)
<smartboyhw> Dunno:)
<len-dt> Anyway, the comments I got at the time were that so long as it was fixed for 12.10......
<smartboyhw> :)
<len-dt> so I worked on other things
<smartboyhw> OK:)
<len-dt> Personally I would like to see more kernel updates
<smartboyhw> len-dt, :)
<len-dt> smartboyhw, I have one more bug fix to get through for 12.10 then testing then I will probably do less next cycle than I did this one
<len-dt> I have less time... and I am at a point that I am not sure what else to do as well
<smartboyhw> len-dt, OK
<smartboyhw> len-dt, which one?
<len-dt> I do have a small coding project I will do some work on... I have done a mock up in tk/tcl but should probably learn python and move it there.
<len-dt> I have both a workflow launcher as well as a mode changer
<len-dt> The mode changer would go first, It allows turning things off that conflict with recording on the fly
<smartboyhw> OK
<len-dt> it goes in systray
<len-dt> tk doesn't haveanything to make systray stuff so I have been using alltray to wrap it
<len-dt> python does have acces to systray through the gtk stuff
<micahg> len-dt: I don't think we've enabled the gstreamer support in Firefox yet
<micahg> len-dt: have you filled out the SRU paperwork for precise?
<len-dt> micahg, Ah. I see. 
<len-dt> no, there didn't seem to be intererest. And I had other things to do.
<len-dt> Paper work? is there a form?
<len-dt> I looked at the sru page and it didn't seem to indicate that
<len-dt> micahg, as you are here, 12.10 -default-settings has a committed bug fix if it could get released
<micahg> ok, will try to take a look today
<micahg> len-dt: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#Procedure step 2
<smartboyhw> len-dt, add oil:P
<smartboyhw> len-dt, what do you think about https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio/+bug/1051888 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1051888 in Ubuntu Studio "Audio CD's won't mount" [Undecided,New]
<len-dt> I would have to test it. (on a machine that actually has a cd/dvd drive)
<len-dt> normally totem would not be used for playing an audio cd anyway... that would be audacious.
<smartboyhw> len-dt, I made the help bug assigned to you:P
<len-dt> I may not work on it... 
<smartboyhw> Oh:P
<len-dt> audasious plays tracks ok. nautilus opens an audio disk as wav files.
<smartboyhw> len-dt, I think it is a backport instead......
<len-dt> smartboyhw, I'm sorry, I thought you ment the audio disk bug
<smartboyhw> len-dt, LOL
<len-dt> The help bug is ok
<smartboyhw> len-dt, I saw people asking about it in Ubuntu Studio Forums so...
<len-dt> I think it isn't really a back port(s) because the fix is different from 12.10
<smartboyhw> len-dt, hmm.....
<smartboyhw> When
<smartboyhw> Stable release updates will, in general, only be issued in order to fix high-impact bugs. Examples of such bugs include:
<smartboyhw>     Bugs which may, under realistic circumstances, directly cause a security vulnerability. These are done by the security team and are documented at SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures.
<smartboyhw>     Bugs which represent severe regressions from the previous release of Ubuntu. This includes packages which are totally unusable, like being uninstallable or crashing on startup.
<smartboyhw>     Bugs which may, under realistic circumstances, directly cause a loss of user data
<smartboyhw>     Bugs which do not fit under above categories, but (1) have an obviously safe patch and (2) affect an application rather than critical infrastructure packages (like X.org or the kernel).
<smartboyhw>     For Long Term Support releases we regularly want to enable new hardware. Such changes are appropriate provided that we can ensure to not affect upgrades on existing hardware. For example, modaliases of newly introduced drivers must not overlap with previously shipped drivers.
<len-dt> The -default-setting package from 12.10 will not work with 12.04. I tried it
<smartboyhw>     New versions of commercial software in the Canonical partner archive.
<smartboyhw>     FTBFS(Fails To Build From Source) can also be considered. Please note that in main the release process ensures that there are no binaries which are not built from a current source. Usually those bugs should only be SRUed in conjunction with another bug fix. 
<smartboyhw> Er these are the requirements for SRUs
<len-dt> Ya, these are safe fixes because the most it would do is still have a non-working menu ittem
<smartboyhw> Which one do you think it meets?
<smartboyhw> ok then len-dt I hope you can go through it:)
<len-dt> Bugs which do not fit under above categories, but (1) have an obviously safe patch and (2) affect an application rather than critical infrastructure packages (like X.org or the kernel).
<len-dt> Xine plays cds directly
<len-dt> totem seems to play cds directly too
<smartboyhw> len-dt, on that help bug........
 * smartboyhw has been stupidly building the package:P
<smartboyhw> len-dt, it is now in my ppa:P:P:P:P
<micahg> ailo_: FYI, bzr mv is easier than mv in branches as it just shows the change as a file rename
<micahg> ailo_: also, why are you depending on such a strict version of python
<micahg> ailo_: also, IIRC, #I/usr/bin/env python is deprecated and should be #!/usr/bin/python
<micahg> ailo_: you also forgot to mention the debian/control addition of python
<micahg> (in the changelog)
 * micahg fixes up and uploads
<micahg> len-dt: about the new menu items, I assume your docs team (?) is aware
<micahg> actually, I have to check on something, can this wait until Wed (I'm off Mon and Tues)
<len-dt> micahg, no problem. It is the last bug I can think to fix for 12.10
<len-dt> micahg, the documenting will have to wait. So far as I know, none of us has a colorimeter to play with. When I have some money I will rent one.... If I can find such a device in our small town.
<micahg> len-dt: I was just concerned about menu screenshots being wrong, you're not required to screenshot every app you have
<len-dt> it is a chicken and egg thing, we have to have the tools before photography people will us it and give feedback
<len-dt> I don't think screen shots will be different
<len-dt> We still have to do the photgraphy/graphics workflow docs though.
<ailo_> micahg: I should probably look more into python versions, but I decided to use a version I knew for certain would work, and was installed on 12.10
<micahg> ailo_: just Depends: python should be fine unless you're using specific features
<ailo_> micahg: Ok. I'd like to make more changes before upload
<micahg> ailo_: ok, I won't be uploading until Tues night at the earliest, so have at it
<ailo_> micahg: I'll make sure to have everything ready until then
<ailo_> len-dt: I was thinking of making some final changes to the menu. Moving the extra starters to the top of each submenu
<ailo_> Anything else in -settings we'd like to do before final release?
<astraljava> guitar -> Behringer -> M-Audio Audiophile S/PDIF in -> jackd -> S/PDIF out -> stereo -> headphones; done, an hour of testing; done. Whee!
<astraljava> Err... that should be of course ANALOG out, not S/PDIF. But oh well.
<astraljava> I'm getting started.
<astraljava> ...and I suppose there should be Mudita24 there in between, to handle the routing.
<holstein> i remember when i missed winamp
<holstein> now i could care lesss
<holstein> if a media player dictates the operating system you are going to use... i dont think there's much reason to be using linux
<astraljava> Heh... yeah.
<astraljava> This is so much fun! I can't believe I let it take this long to start actually using the stuff.
<astraljava> Now I wish I could afford a midi keyboard, to make it easier to compose.
<holstein> astraljava: i got a cheapy
<holstein> an maudio keystation.. works great
<astraljava> But oh well, I'll need to notation practice anyway, so I'll start punching in notes to Rosegarden or whatever there is.
<holstein> you should see them used for around $50
<astraljava> Oh cool, I'll look for some forums for musicians around here. Thanks for the tip!
<holstein> yeah, if you were closer id offer you this one for cheap
<holstein> i got a weighted one and a USB to midi thing
<astraljava> Right.
<holstein> though, that rig is out on loan too..
<astraljava> Hah!
<astraljava> Too bad I've got a working day tomorrow. I could spend so much time on this right now. :) G'night for now, though.
<holstein> astraljava: o/
<len-dt> ailo_, I was goin to leave that for next cycle as I have run out of time to play, but feel free. I'll be happy with everything new working :)
<len-dt> holstein, some people are afraid to try something new... or just do a bit of research even.
<holstein> len-dt: yeah.. i was back then
<holstein> i wanted winamp, and missed it
<len-dt> The I want an all in one solution idea is odd to me too. Using two or more apps together just seems natural to me
<len-dt> holstein, to be honest, I have never used winamp.
<holstein> well, you get used to the way things are
<holstein> windows media player is and was *so* bad.. when winamp came along i think a lot of folks were just so into it
<len-dt> MS does not give anything away...
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-09-23
<OvenWerks> zequence_: micahg both -settings and -lightdm-theme have minor bug fixes.
<OvenWerks> for bug #1228657 and Bug #1228635
<ubottu> bug 1228657 in ubuntustudio-lightdm-theme (Ubuntu) "Lightdm has the wrong backdrop, it is from 13.04" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1228657
<ubottu> bug 1228635 in ubuntustudio-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Background for screen 1 is different from screen 0" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1228635
<micahg> OvenWerks: I'm not sure if I can get it uploaded before beta 2 freeze
<OvenWerks> I am also getting busy, I have to see if zequence_ or someone else wants to chase it micahg. Thanks anyway.
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks, when do you suppose the backdrop bugs can be fixed?
<OvenWerks> smartboyhw: they are both committed. just need to be pushed through
<OvenWerks> read the back scroll/log
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks, OK
<smartboyhw> I'll get dholbach when he comes up
 * smartboyhw asks #ubuntu-devel
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks, next time, please subscribe "Ubuntu Sponsors" for any type of upload you want people to sponsor
<smartboyhw> garrrufffufufufufuf, Beta 2 Block is soon to be pushed on
<smartboyhw> And STILL NO SPONSOR....
<smartboyhw> It's OK
<smartboyhw> But, sigh for not having many Ubuntu devs free:(
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks, xequence -default-settings uploaded to -proposed, will soon ask for unblocking
<smartboyhw> Sigh for low RAM and such:(
<smartboyhw> BTW, somebody explain to me why -default-settings is sectioned "gnome" -.-
<smartboyhw> Probably I should commit a fix in it
<smartboyhw> (In trunk)
<xequence> there are a lot of stuff hanging around that we don't need anymore.
<xequence> I'm going to list all that stuff, and make sure we clean it up for 14.04
<xequence> Some packages contain files that are not needed anymore, etc
<xequence> some packages might not be useful at all, like ubuntustudio-sounds
<smartboyhw> Hmm, weird
<smartboyhw> is x11 = gnome?
<xequence> no
<smartboyhw> Hummm.....
<smartboyhw> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntustudio-default-settings/0.49 says gnome
<smartboyhw> But source says x11
<xequence> also, I think you mean "=="
<smartboyhw> xequence, yes
<smartboyhw> Harumph
<xequence> smartboyhw, I think you can leave the old blueprints alone for now
<smartboyhw> xequence, OK
<xequence> I need to gather stuff that is written down and migrate that for the blueprints for 14.04
<xequence> But, otherwise, those blueprints are dead
<xequence> no one is using them
<smartboyhw> Boom boom boom boom:P
<smartboyhw> BTW, did the saucy i386 images fail earlier?
<xequence> Both saucy and precise, it seems
<smartboyhw> I asked the release team...
<xequence> knome, I moved the wordpress branch, and also renamed it. It's now at lp:ubuntustudio-website
<knome> xequence, ok, good to know
<knome> i'l try to remember that...
<xequence> knome, It's under the ubuntustudio-website project now, so the full path is lp:~ubuntustudio-website/ubuntustudio-website/ubuntustudio-website :)
<knome> lol
<knome> yep
<knome> what about -content?
<knome> will you delete that project?
<xequence> Yes, I asked to have it removed
<xequence> Moved over bugs from it. It's all empty now
<knome> i'd imagine bug 776770 is obsolete with the new website
<ubottu> bug 776770 in Ubuntu Studio Website "dead link - ubuntustudio.org" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/776770
<knome> oh, there it is "invalid" :P
<smartboyhw> LOL
<knome> lunch, bbiab
<smartboyhw> xequence, I suppose you will handle the 13.10 final release (i.e. release announcement and such) yourself, as in 13.04?
<xequence> smartboyhw, Yes, at least the informal part of it. 
<smartboyhw> xequence, sure
<OvenWerks> smartboyhw: I didn't see any mention of -lightdm-theme I guess it didn't make it?
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks, um, it is stuck in saucy-proposed, no release team member is free to unblock
<OvenWerks> ok
<xequence> Time to go home..
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks, zequence_: The uploads are UNBLOCKED
 * OvenWerks notices there is no 32 bit ISO still... and no B2 images.
<OvenWerks> However the testing I have done on the dailies so far shows all the bugs except those fixed today are fixed. Upgrade no longer pulls in a generic kernel for example.
<knome> there's a 32-bit image for xubuntu, so apparently the machine has been booted
<OvenWerks> knome: we have been getting failed builds for a few days, not sure if that is the same thing or something else.
<knome> no, not failed builds, just missing
<knome> but it could be connected
<knome> i'd recommend asking in #ubuntu-release, they might be aware of the source of the problem or at least point you to a right direction
<OvenWerks> I'll wait till there is a log file at least:) then I know it has been tried
<knome> yep
<knome> anyway, the server trouble should be fixed now
<OvenWerks> Ok, we have beta 2 test images for DL
<OvenWerks> Installing 32bit... screen 1 still old backdrop.
<OvenWerks> I guess our two patches didn't make it. 
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-09-24
<OvenWerks> is there a reason there are no beta 2 upgrade tests in the tracker?
<OvenWerks> Ah, we have been respun again.
<OvenWerks> I will have to resync
 * smartboyhw adds upgrade builds to ISO QA Tracker
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks, I've added upgrade builds to the ISO QA Tracker, please report results accordingly, I'm going to write the testing announcement now.
<smartboyhw> Hmm, this announcement is getting a bit "Lubuntu" style-.-
<smartboyhw> Or rather, balloons stlye
<smartboyhw> *styl
<smartboyhw> *style\
<smartboyhw> *stlye
<smartboyhw> *style
<smartboyhw> GRRRR
<knome> flood alert
<smartboyhw> Sorry
<smartboyhw> My typo is a bit serious today
<smartboyhw> Hmm, for the title maybe it's a good idea to include statistics:P
<smartboyhw> zsyncing the amd64 image now
 * smartboyhw starts testing
<smartboyhw> I'm not expecting too many problems (since OvenWerks thinks it's quite good)
<smartboyhw> Really nice wallpaper
<smartboyhw> Wait, a bug
<smartboyhw> When I do the installation (not via live session), the wallpaper isn't using the new wallpaper
<smartboyhw> Hmm.....
<smartboyhw> I'm quite confident I saw the wallpaper during installation
<smartboyhw> Oops, live session
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks, can you confirm the bug for me?
<smartboyhw> Bug 1229651
<ubottu> bug 1229651 in ubuntustudio-look (Ubuntu) "Installation without live session is showing the old rock wallpaper" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1229651
<smartboyhw> Anyone can think of any reasons? Looked through the bzr branch, no idea
<smartboyhw> Hmm, lightdm theme doesn't work either
<smartboyhw> But the session itself works
<smartboyhw> I'm thinking that the lightdm theme isn't updated
<smartboyhw> Huh, but it is
<smartboyhw> Hmm, wait
<smartboyhw> zequence_, did you ask for a upload of ubuntustudio-lightdm-theme?
 * smartboyhw checks
<smartboyhw> Damn, Riddell didn't unblock everything
<smartboyhw> Let me ask again
<smartboyhw> Phew, unblocked
<smartboyhw> Requesting respin
<zequence_> smartboyhw: No, I didn't
<smartboyhw> zequence_, eh?
<zequence_> I'm just on my way out the dorr
<zequence_> Maybe some could arrange that?
<zequence_> Though, not sure if it's needed.
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks, zequence_ I'm respinning
<smartboyhw> DarkEra, OvenWerks zequence_ please update your images to 20130924.1
<smartboyhw> Hmm, the bug still hasn't been fixed. Let me see if lightdm-theme is happening wrongly
<smartboyhw> I'm guessing it is a ubiquity bug
<smartboyhw> Yeah! Found the place for the fix!
<smartboyhw> zequence_, do you think it would be appropriate to respin only because of Bug 1229651?
<ubottu> bug 1229651 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Installation without live session is showing the old rock wallpaper" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1229651
<smartboyhw> I don't think so:P
<OvenWerks> smartboyhw: I don't know where the wallpaper isset for the installonly session.
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks, ubiquity
<smartboyhw> Which the fix just went in.
<smartboyhw> (But not uploaded)
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks, you want a respin for that?
<OvenWerks> Ok, the slide show was not updated either so that is ok
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks, eh? Is the slideshow planned for an update soon?
<OvenWerks> in T
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks, that's a long way away, and now I'm not getting what your "OK" meant;P
<OvenWerks> normally we do at least new first and last slides with the new backdrop
<OvenWerks> ok to just leave it I think
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks, ah
<smartboyhw> Let's just update it later;P
<OvenWerks> We need to have a list of places to do the backdrop. Maybe use a link
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks, what a nice Virtualbox sound quality;p
<smartboyhw> I can declare the image passed.
<smartboyhw> Now, the upgrades (sigh)
<smartboyhw> amd64 image marked as ready
<OvenWerks> Yup setting and lightdm-theme made it to the wild since lastnight
<OvenWerks> ok, upgrade i386 from terminal has passed. I will do resyncs for other tests tonight. Bye all
<smartboyhw> Hello madeinkobaia :)
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks, awesome
 * smartboyhw decides to do image testing first
<smartboyhw> image upgrade testing, sorry
<smartboyhw> The terminal upgrades will simply have to wait
<madeinkobaia> Hi all, hi smartboyhw :)
<OvenWerks> zequence_: I added a bluprint for installer. Feel free to change almost anything about it. I am most wanting to make sure I have the things I want to change listed.
<OvenWerks> zequence_: Also, whats with: http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-s/ubuntustudio-dev.html ?
<OvenWerks> none of the items look like ours at all.
<OvenWerks> As if it points at the wrong blueprints
 * OvenWerks is off to pick up a son from school...
<OvenWerks> the new respin.... seems to have picked up lightdm-theme but not settings :P
<OvenWerks> I am guessing this will only affect the live session and not the install, as the upgrade was fine.
<zequence_> OvenWerks: none of our blueprints are in there anymore. We don't really need to do that
<zequence_> OvenWerks: Important thing is we know ourselves what we need to do
<zequence_> no idea why it is showing all those other stuff
<zequence_> might be because ubuntu-motu is a member for ubuntustudio-dev
<zequence_> OvenWerks: You got the idea on how I had planned to do the blueprints. There's no big hurry though. I'm still working on that, and doing an announcement later on what the deal is
<zequence_> OvenWerks: I only changed the name to ubuntustudio-installer-t, as all our blueprints might as well be Ubuntu release based. Meaning, we work to achieve a set of goals for each cycle
<zequence_> Well, also the approver to ubuntustudio-core and the drafter to ubuntustudio-dev
<zequence_> ..another reason for the blueprint name is you can't have several blueprints with the same name
<OvenWerks> zequence_: no problem thankyou for fixing.
<zequence_> it's quite possible to have several blueprints for each project. And theydon't need to be dependencies of the main ubuntustudio project
<zequence_> we also don't need to have bluieprints for each and every project
<OvenWerks> I could see that
<zequence_> only those we want to work on
<OvenWerks> Ya, but I think these are things that need to be fixed. The ones with my name are mostly done, just waiting for saucy to be out of the way
<zequence_> OvenWerks: Wouldn't it be better it showed installed packages being toggled?
<OvenWerks> zequence_: did you see my email?
<OvenWerks> I could I guess. That may give the user the idea they can use this utility to remove things too.
<zequence_> OvenWerks: Would be better, I think
<OvenWerks> This would be problematic with our metas as it would remove the meta but not it's depends
<zequence_> OvenWerks: Also, why should it exit, if there's nothing to install?
<OvenWerks> It exits with a dialog telling the user there is nothing in the list to install
<zequence_> The way metas are handled is not a installer problem. It's how apt works
<zequence_> If you want it to uninstall everything depending on the metas, you should add something to allow for that to happen, or just let it funtion the way apt does
<OvenWerks> So rather than showing an empty list it shows a box with an explanation of why there is nothing to display.
<zequence-work> When is there nothing to install?
<OvenWerks> uninstalls would be messy.
<OvenWerks> There is nothing to install if all the possibilities are already installed
<zequence-work> Ok, so it's an installer. But not an uninstaller?
<zequence-work> Doesnt make much sense, does it?
<OvenWerks> One step at a time.
<OvenWerks> Once I have finished what I have, I can look at uninstalling
<OvenWerks> there are people who have hinted they would like to be able to uninstall whatever the meta installed
<zequence-work> OvenWerks: One thing that you might want to add, if you haven't already, is do an apt-get update before even reading the available packages
<zequence-work> OvenWerks: If there's no update before, some packages might fail to install - as they might have been updated since berfore
<zequence-work> This is a problem with Ubuntu Software Center, believe it or not
<OvenWerks> For that matter could add a place for adding ppas
<OvenWerks> But ya, update might be good, I already add some activity indication in there so it should be ok.
<zequence-work> OvenWerks: The gnome2 overrides could be from the old Gnome days, but not sure.
<OvenWerks> I will have a look through the change log sometime.
<zequence-work> OvenWerks: I added a workitem for it. Might be good to do the apt-get update after accepting changes instead. This way opening the app will be faster. The only thing I'm concerned about is the first ever time you try to install something, if there is a database of packages for apt at all. Never checked that.
<zequence-work> I'd rather we work at making it able to install/uninstall
<zequence-work> and no matter if it removes the depencies for a meta. Each package will show anyway
<zequence-work> That could be fixed later, if wanted
<zequence-work> Also, if there are no packages to install/uninstall, that sounds more like an error. Like starting the application without arguments, or on a system that doesn't use apt and doesn't have packages with those name
<zequence-work> What I meant was, making it able to remove dependencies for a meta could be fixed later
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-09-25
<OvenWerks> zequence_: Yes if there are no packages to deal with that is an error and the user should be told so.
<OvenWerks> It would be easy to make installed packages already installed show as selected. I might also replace the description text with "already installed" Or preface the description with "Installed - "
<OvenWerks> To add remove, take the original list and subtract the install list to make a remove list.
<OvenWerks> very quickly we start to run into the limits that zenity has. Then we have to add more libraries. The whole thing becomes a much bigger project. We want it to be able to run on any DE without adding lots of stuff. I am alsomost 
<OvenWerks> almost... thinking it would be better to use tcl/tk or perl/tk
<OvenWerks> I think tk pulls tcl anyway.
<OvenWerks> ubiquity has some code that loads gtk or kde/qtish stuff depending on what it finds.
<OvenWerks> Do we want to remove packages at the same time as install? Could we have two select screens one for install and one for remove?
<OvenWerks> There are lots of options. Finding the slimmest one that is still does all we want is best.
<zequence_> OvenWerks: I think it's enough if the installed packages are just toggled. And, it's just about adding an apt-get remove option to items in the list that have been changed to remove since initial read
<zequence_> However clear that was.. :P
<OvenWerks> only if they are already installed :)
<zequence_> The slimmes option in my view would be just to add an uninstall function for packages that were set to be removed
<zequence_> The toggles are self-explanatory
<OvenWerks> should we ask the user to confirm removal?
<zequence_> Just confirm changes
<zequence_> And perhaps show a list of packages set to be installed, and the set of packages to be removed
<OvenWerks> ok.
<OvenWerks> Before I get there, I will be changing the apt-get running from a run as pipe to a child process so I can get all output and give inputn if needed.
<OvenWerks> Right now all I have is STDOUT, I would like STDERR for sure and maybe STDIN as well
<zequence_> Wonder if we could tag some packages with ubuntustudio
<zequence_> That would make it easier to automate a lot of stuff
<OvenWerks> tag?
<zequence_> Application category
<zequence_> I'm thinking another feature in the future for the installer - and then zenity might not work anymore, is to make it a bit like what falktx did for one of his apps
<zequence_> ..show what each application can do
<zequence_> what they support
<zequence_> Why I don't like that idea though, is because it requires so much work from our side, in maintenance
<OvenWerks> I think just getting to know apt and its tools might make automation easier too.
<zequence_> would be better in fact if there was a standard for some type of categorization in Debian packaging, maybe Linux packaging, that would save us that work. We'd just provide a gui with info about the packages
<OvenWerks> USC?
<zequence_> Like, which audio apps support jack - as an example
<OvenWerks> :)
<zequence_> Well, if it would do that, then sure
<zequence_> or any of the package managers
<zequence_> in which case, we wouldn't need ubuntustudio-installer in the first place
<OvenWerks> The problem with that is audicity supports jack... very badly
<zequence_> doesn't matter how well it supports jack
<zequence_> it's a boolean question
<zequence_> does it, or does it not?
<OvenWerks> From POV not
<OvenWerks> My POV
<zequence_> POV is not a technical aspect
<OvenWerks> but on paper it does
<zequence_> If people are unhappy, they should report bugs
<zequence_> We don't need to bend the truth for them
<OvenWerks> The jack support in audacity is so bad in some uses as to be easier to use through pulse
<zequence_> I really don't see the relevance of how well Audacity supports jack for how to describe the technical features of an application
<OvenWerks> The good thing is that doesn't matter, because audacity's best use doesn't need jack
<cub> Good morning, I
<cub> am going to be in a conference for two days now so I'll try to run some test cases in parallell..:)
<smartboyhw> Hmm, we got all results ready....
<cub_> Hi smartboyhw, while running the test case for live session, I wonder about the fourth step:
<cub_> Use and execute the default applications found for the desktop enviroment being run. All applications should function without error
<cub_> Which is our "default applications"?
<smartboyhw> cub_, well, what kind of "error" did you encounter into?
<smartboyhw> cub_: Browser, audio, blah blah blah
<cub_> I haven't started yet. I just wonder if I should open EVERY application in the menus
<smartboyhw> cub, random check i think
<smartboyhw> :P
<cub_> hehe ok
<OvenWerks> smartboyhw: is 32bit marked ready too?
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks, yes
<OvenWerks> I haven't gone looking this morning... need coffee
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks, do you have the effort to re-test the i386 image? It looks like quite a number of fixes went in ubiquity......
<madeinkobaia> Hi all : )
<smartboyhw> Hello madeinkobaia :)P
<madeinkobaia> :) What's up smartboyhw
<smartboyhw> madeinkobaia, waiting for Len's reply
<madeinkobaia> \o/
<smartboyhw> madeinkobaia, um, it might not be a \o/
<madeinkobaia> smartboyhw: for sure, its a paradoxical use of an emoticon (just kiddind ;p )
<smartboyhw> madeinkobaia, :P
<madeinkobaia> O:-)
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks, no need to ask you I think, infinity is doing a MASS respin.
<smartboyhw> i.e. everything gets respun
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks, please make sure you DO test the respinnned images, I will test the respinned image first thing tomorrow when I came back from school
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-09-26
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks, is there no way that you can do the test?
<smartboyhw> i mean, the i386 one
<smartboyhw> zequence_, got any time too?
<zequence-work> smartboyhw: I can only do tests with the live DVD today
<zequence-work> Maybe in the evening I can do an install
<zequence_> Finally getting my tooth fixed today :P
<smartboyhw> zequence_: Heh heh hhe
 * smartboyhw tests the amd64 ISO
<smartboyhw> ETA zsync time for i386: 1 hour 30 minutes (Impressive)
<smartboyhw> Now, let's see if my ubiquity fix worked
<smartboyhw> OK, it worked
<smartboyhw> amd64 image passed...
<smartboyhw> amd64 marked ready
<smartboyhw> I have a hunch that the release will be delayed into Friday
<smartboyhw> zequence-work, I don't know if this is improper practice, but can you ask apw to update the linux-lowlatency kernel in Saucy before KernelFreeze? The kernel hasn't been updated after Beta 1:(
<smartboyhw> It's still in an -rc state
<smartboyhw> (Which I consider unstable)
<smartboyhw> Maybe you can update yourself
<smartboyhw> Dunn
<smartboyhw> s/Dunn/Dunno/
<kubotu> smartboyhw meant: "Dunno"
<smartboyhw> All Ubuntu Studio images has passed Quality Assurance and are marked ready.
<zequence_> smartboyhw: I'm maintaining that kernel now. Theres no hurry
<zequence_> smartboyhw: I will make sure it'sup to date before kernel freeze
<smartboyhw> zequence_, many thanks:)
<smartboyhw> http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/linux-and-open-source/linux-advocate-contemplates-the-purchase-of-a-mac/ !
<smartboyhw> " I might jump from Ubuntu to Ubuntu Studio (or whichever platform gets audio right first), but I will always and forever be a champion for Linux."
<ttoine> hello
<smartboyhw> Hello ttoine :)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-09-27
<Noskcaj> Can someone test the latest debian revision of blender? It might fix the FTBFS
<ttoine> hello
<q2dg> Does Wine come in last ubuntustudio for default already installed?  I want to try MusicTime software 
<q2dg> Thanks
<smartboyhw> q2dg, no I believe
<smartboyhw> q2dg, and BTW, this channel is not for support questions.
<smartboyhw> !support
<ubottu> This is the Ubuntu Studio development channel. Our official support channel is on #ubuntustudio. Also see http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=335
<q2dg> Oh, sorry! Thanks
<ttoine> smartboyhw, is there really someone to answer question on #ubuntustudio ?
<smartboyhw> ttoine, well, I answered the question for q2dg already (along with the request for him to move)
<smartboyhw> And yes, it's sometimes a bit quiet
<ttoine> ;-)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-09-28
<johey> If my kernel hangs at boot when using lowlatency, how can I start tracking the problem down? Using Ubuntu 13.04 with official lowlatency kernel package.
<johey> If started without quiet and splash kernel parameters, it just says "Loading Linux 3.8.0-31-lowlatency ..." then hangs at the purple screen.
<johey> You can see a cursor or underscore at the line below, but it won't react on any keypress.
<johey> Using a ThinkPad X1 Carbon, amd64 kernel.
<smartboyhw> zequence_, your expertise^
<johey> Good. That's a hard to find property. :)
<smartboyhw> !kernel
<ubottu> The core of Ubuntu is the Linux kernel: see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Kernel - You shouldn't have to compile your own, and if you need to troubleshoot issues, you can try a !Mainline kernel instead, but if you insist, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Kernel/Compile (see also !Stages)
<smartboyhw> johey, though, linux-lowlatency is very simliar to linux in normal means
<johey> Using the linux-generic is no problem. Booting perfectly. Lowlatency freeze totally.
<smartboyhw> OK, that's a specific bug then
<smartboyhw> johey, can you run "ubuntu-bug linux-lowlatency" within a terminal?
<johey> I'm using it with other machines without problem.
<johey> Ok, in a moment.
<johey> smartboyhw: Bug reported. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-meta-lowlatency/+bug/1232413
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1232413 in linux-meta-lowlatency (Ubuntu) "Lowlatency kernel hangs at boot, even before any text output" [Undecided,New]
<smartboyhw> johey, thanks
<johey> smartboyhw: Currently I am not using Ubuntu Studio on this machine, but it is the same kernel package, isn't it?
<smartboyhw> johey, yes.
<johey> I am sorry not being able to give more details. I don't like reporting a bug only saying it just hangs, but what can I do...
<johey> I am quite technically skilled, but I'm not a kernel hacker. If there are things I can do to help debugging, please feel free to ask.
<johey> Last time I even compiled a kernel was 2.4.
<smartboyhw> johey, wah:O
<johey> Nowadays, it just works, you know... :)
<johey> Are the lowlatency and generic kernel images built from the same source just with different configurations, or is the lowlatency patched?
<smartboyhw> johey, same source
<smartboyhw> different configrations
<johey> Ok. So what I could do is trying to narrow down the set of configuration options until I know which one causes the hang... Would it help you think, or is it just one option to enable a large set of code?
<smartboyhw> johey, dunno
<smartboyhw> I'm not the kernel guy
<johey> Right. That's zequence_.
<Heyokha> Hi
<smartboyhw> Hello Heyokha 
<johey> smartboyhw: Do I have to use the lowlatency kernel to get realtime permissions for jack btw?
<smartboyhw> johey, technically, as long as you're in the "realtime" group, you can get realtime permissions
<smartboyhw> http://jackaudio.org/linux_rt_config
<johey> I see. That might do it for me.
<johey> I thought the group was audio.
<johey> Mhm. adduser: The group `realtime' does not exist. .. Maybe this differ from ubuntu and ubuntustudio? Don't tell me I'm asking in the wrong channel... :)
<smartboyhw> Technically, you are.
<smartboyhw> !support | johey 
<ubottu> johey: This is the Ubuntu Studio development channel. Our official support channel is on #ubuntustudio. Also see http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=335
<smartboyhw> johey, it might be the audio group for us
<smartboyhw> I forgotten which:P
<johey> Yes I know. I happened to ask about my kernel issue in almost all #ubuntu* channels, and this one gave the best hits. :)
<smartboyhw> johey, it should be "audio" for us
<johey> Ok. I will investigate that. Maybe I don't need the lowlatency. As long as I can keep latency <20ms without suffering from too many xruns I'm happy.
<zequence_> johey: If you don't do any live processing at all, you don't need low latency
<zequence_> johey: Just to confirm, the -generic that works is the same version as the -lowlatency that doesn't work?
<zequence_> Ah, yes. I can see it is from the bug report
<zequence_> It's very unlikely for there to be problems with -lowlatency that do not occur on -generic, as they are almost the same exact kernel
<zequence_> johey: Earlier versions of -lowlatency works fine, right?
<zequence_> smartboyhw: johey: We use the audio group for realtime privilege
<zequence_> There's no lowlatency patchset
<zequence_> johey: It would be great if you could try other version of linux-lowlatency
<johey> zequence_: I've tried with the oldest version I find in the repos, namely 3.8.0-22 with same result.
<zequence_> johey: Try something like a 3.2 instead
<zequence_> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-kernel/+archive/linux-lowlatency-sru/+packages
<johey> It's fully reproducible on this machine. Haven't successfully passed the kernel load step one single time. Although, on my technically most equal machine, the ThinkPad X220, this is no issue at all.
<zequence_> Download manually, under linux-lowlatency-*
<zequence_> the package called linux-image-*-lowlatency-*
<johey> Ok, I'll try that.
<johey> Just to ensure, I don't need the kernel header packages, right? The installation warns me about it.
<johey> zequence_: 3.2.0-54-lowlatency hangs the same way.
<johey> I managed to get realtime permissions without the lowlatency kernel, but after trying recording audio I realize I really need the lowlatency kernel.
<johey> Cannot even manage to get free from xruns with 20 ms.
<johey> 20 ms latency that is.
<zequence_> johey: You don't need low latency unless you are doing software monitoring
<johey> zequence_: Well, I actually am.
<zequence_> 20ms IMO is too high anyway
<zequence_> johey: Can't you monitor externally?
<zequence_> What is it you are recording?
<johey> I'm using live guitar effects.
<johey> When recording the latency is of lower importance.
<zequence_> johey: Check your /var/log/dmesg.0
<johey> zequence_: Nothing is written to /var/log/dmesg.* when booting a lowlatency kernel.
<johey> At least not enough to write it's own kernel version.
<johey> I've never before seen a kernel hang this early. Not one single character is printed to the screen by the kernel.
<johey> It seems like it hangs while it is copied to memory.
<smartboyhw> That's a rare bug:O
<zequence-work> johey: This is the diff between -generic and -lowlatency, prior to building http://paste.ubuntu.com/6167050/
<zequence-work> In the config, that is
<johey> Ok, but the CONFIG_PREEMPT=y enables a large chunk of code I would guess.
<zequence-work> Might be the realtime patch hackers might be interested in solving this problem
<johey> Where can I find them?
<zequence-work> https://rt.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/Mailinglists
<zequence-work> johey: You might want to try a realtime kernel as well
<zequence-work> johey: http://wiki.linuxaudio.org/wiki/system_configuration#build_your_own_real-time_kernel
<zequence-work> Some of the realtime patch has been included into the vanilla kernel. Bit by bit.
<johey> Alright! The lowlatency and realtime are different pieces of code?
<zequence-work> lowlatency is not a patch at all
<zequence-work> linux-lowlatency is linux-generic, but with the preemtp configuration
<johey> I'm sure the preemt used to be a patch... And I thought it came from the realtime code, but I'm likely wrong. I usually am. :)
<zequence-work> As I said, the realtime patch has been included into the vanilla code, bit by bit
<zequence-work> johey: I'd be interested to know if a realtime kernel would work for you or not
<johey> Ok. Anyway, trying out a realtime kernel is the next step I think.
<johey> I will let you know.
<zequence-work> johey: Thanks
<johey> I mean it's the next-next step. Trying AVLinux first.
<johey> zequence-work: It also hangs with 3.10.10-rt.
<johey> zequence-work: GAAAAHHH!! You know what... ThinkPad X1 Carbon is really well prepared for standing up against evil free software. Just disabling every option in the BIOS Security menu fixed the issue.
<OvenWerks> figures.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-09-29
<zequence-work> johey: Ah, secure boot
<zequence-work> Yeah, we don't have the signed stuff that Canonical does with -generic
<zequence-work> not yet, anyway
<johey> zequence_: Aaahhhh, so you KNEW there was another difference between generic and lowlatency... ;P
<johey> smartboyhw: In case you missed it, and in case you're interested, I can successfully boot my machine with lowlatency. It has to do with secure boot. Had to disable that in BIOS.
<smartboyhw> johey, ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
<smartboyhw> No UEFI!!!!
<zequence_> johey: I've never bought a machine with Windows preinstalled, so I don't usually get these problems myself ;)
<zequence_> smartboyhw: UEFI is not the problem. It's a good replacement for BIOS
<zequence_> and secure boot is not a problem either really
<johey> I get jitter in playback even when avoiding xruns. Why can this be? Using USB2 audio interface.
<zequence_> johey: This is not really the support channel, but what do you mean by jitter - not from a soft synth?
<smartboyhw> zequence_, in a GNU/Linux F/OSS world, UEFI and Secure Boot IS a problem
<johey> zequence_: The sound is clipping now and then. In particulary from soft synths yes...
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-09-24
<zequence> Anyone want to test the final beta?
<ObrienDave> does it boot in a VM?
<zequence> ObrienDave: Sure
<ObrienDave> bring it on
<zequence> ObrienDave: You have a launchpad account?
<ObrienDave> think so
<zequence> The test cases are at http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/324/builds
<zequence> I will do some testing tomorrow morning
<ObrienDave> https://launchpad.net/~truckinpapa
<zequence> We won't be putting a lot of emphasis on this release, but at least it needs to boot and work
<zequence> Here's the 64bit test page http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/324/builds/80020/testcases
<zequence> One needs to login in order to report the result
<ObrienDave> am in
<zequence> There are three test cases. Full install, live session and the postinstallation test case
<ObrienDave> where do i get the beta?
<zequence> You have the links on the test pages
<zequence> "link to download information"
<ObrienDave> today's daily build would not boot in VBox
<zequence> k
<zequence> Ah, I wonder if there is a problem there then. I have a faint memory of that being so :P
<zequence> One can always install onto a usb drive too
<zequence> I'll be finding out tomorrow. Need to get to sleep shortly
<ObrienDave> we'll try that next
<ObrienDave> k, i'll do what i can
<zequence> Thanks man
<ObrienDave> np
<zequence> ObrienDave: I asked the Xubuntu folks. They have the same problem - Virtualbox not working
<zequence> bug 1371651
<ubottu> bug 1371651 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Daily does not boot into graphical interface after installation" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1371651
<ObrienDave> k, will try USB stick
<ObrienDave> will burn ISO to DVD and install to USB stick
<zequence> You can do it from usb to usb too
<zequence> Just don't forget to set the correct drive for the boot loader :D
<ObrienDave> only 1 USB port open
<ObrienDave> it's ok, i have better luck from DVD anyway
<zequence> alright. Good luck. I'll check back tomorrow
<ObrienDave> k, 'nite
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-09-25
<zequence> I've completed tests for the 64bit. Will do tests for 32bit later. Counting on success, but won't be done until 3-4h from now
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-09-26
<zequence> The Beta is released, but I'm not making any release announcements. Going to tone down the whole release, as we are focusing on the LTS. I will make an announcement of the final release, but again, will tone it down.
<OvenWerks> zequence: makes sense. I won't be able to test this time due to lack of machine. (and space to set one up)
<OvenWerks> I am borrowing other family computers these days.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-09-21
<zequence> Well, I will have a look at the python-enum problem tomorrow. Final Beta is out Thursday, so we need to get builds working
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-09-22
<zequence> This it the background to our ISO problems https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=795444
<ubottu> Debian bug 795444 in python-enum "python-enum: Conflicting module with package 'enum' provided by 'python-enum34'" [Grave,Fixed]
<zequence> We may be required to drop laditools in order to fix this
<zequence> I will do that now
<zequence> We need to drop gladish, in fact
<zequence> I will do that until someone fixes Gladish
<zequence> I reported a new bug about python-enum, Bug 1498345
<ubottu> bug 1498345 in ubuntustudio-meta (Ubuntu) "python-enum conflict with python-enum34 causing havoc" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1498345
<zequence> OvenWerks: Hrm, I saw you added something new to seeds recently. Please don't do that now, since we are beyond feature freeze for a long time now.
<zequence> Is it fixing a bug?
<zequence> I'm removing it for now, and you can readd it after this release
<zequence> Right, we removed arandr after feature freeze as well
<zequence> Anyway, I don't want to take any chances two days before Final Beta, so I'm just removing Gladish for now
<zequence> micahg: Do you have powers to move ubuntustudio-meta from proposed? bug #1498345
<ubottu> bug 1498345 in ubuntustudio-meta (Ubuntu) "python-enum conflict with python-enum34 causing havoc" [Critical,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1498345
<zequence> I didn't take proposed-migration into account. So, should be fine.
<zequence> Ok, the new meta is in universe. Let's see if we get a sucessful build today.
<sakrecoer> finger crossed that iso will iso <3 i battled the unknown for some time, restarting the procedure. conclusion: i'm unsure i'm fitted for this type of bug fixing intervention :,( sorry
<sakrecoer> still motivated tho! we can do this!
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-09-23
<zequence> sakreZZzz: Was actually a pretty simple fix. Usually, when ISOs don't build, it is because of some conflict among packages, and most often it is not related to multimedia, in which case most other distros also have it - at least Xubuntu, and we don't need to sweat too much over it.
<zequence> This time, a python library was pretty much only affecting ladi tools, so we were alone in having the problem, and it was up to us to either fix the bug with the library, or remove any dependencies to it.
<zequence> I won't have time to try fix the library issues, so I will let that slide. Besides, I don't use ladi myself, and not sure how many do in fact, though it seems to be a great idea.
<zequence> So close to release, there's not much I can do aside from drop Gladish.
<sakreZZzz> i've been meaning to use ladi, but i rarly use the same setup twice, so in my workflow its superfluous
<sakreZZzz> i realize now, i forgot to mention that i didn't manage to get that scribus fix done
<sakreZZzz> aka the unknwon i was battling...
<sakrecoer> sometimes i wonder how you guys so much done with so little communication. or am i missing a channel?
<sakrecoer> *get* so much done..
<sakrecoer> :)
<zequence> Just let me know where you were having problems, and I can guide you through it
<zequence> The biggest hurdle with getting into development here is just learning all the rules and tools
<zequence> There's a lot of systems you have to become familiar with, even just to fix a missing desktop file
<sakrecoer> are there any tutorials on the subject?
<zequence> We don't actually do that much, I would say. And, all we do is communicated either here or on the mail list
<sakrecoer> ok :)
<zequence> There are tutorials for all kinds of things, but if your goal is to fix the desktop file, it is easier if I guide you through it. Later, you can investigate any particular tool you were using to get that done.
<sakrecoer> i got "fatal error debuild -S -sa"
<sakrecoer> i mean on debuild -S -sa
<sakrecoer> dpkg-buildpackage: error: dpkg-source -b scribus-ubuntu 
<sakrecoer> gave error exit status 2
<sakrecoer> debuild: fatal error at line 1374: dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -d -us -uc -S -sa failed
<sakrecoer> uploading failed too... but i guess that was good thing
<zequence> Since the build failed, there was nothing to upload
<sakrecoer> it said Not a .changes file. Please select a .changes file to upload.
<zequence> You probably just missed a step somewhere
<zequence> You won't have a changes file, unless there was a build
<sakrecoer> yeah... i tried 3 times... i must have failed to paste one of the steps you gave me in my textfile
<zequence> That's about the way I started learning. Lots of fails
<sakrecoer> :) makes me feel better. although i have reasonable expecation about my skillset
<zequence> I'm heading to "the office" now. When I'm back (in about 15 min), I'll add a list of commands to a paste link and send it to you
<sakrecoer> cheers!! have a great day!
<zequence> The important part in the long run is of course to understand what each command does, but it's too much at once
<sakrecoer> yes. slowly but surely
<zequence> sakrecoer: It seems perhaps edit-patch is not the tool of choice right now
<zequence> I'm trying to add the patch myself, but dpkg has made some changes in how patches should be formatted
<zequence> I think that was probably the error you had also
<zequence> I'll try using quilt and researching more about the problems I'm having
<zequence> Started a new part in our wiki https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/DeveloperTutorials
<sakrecoer> oh! that is great zequence :)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-09-25
<Aleix> Hi! ^^
<Aleix> lsd
<Aleix> cdslkcs
<Aleix> cfsd
<Aleix> c
<Aleix> sd
<Aleix> cs
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-09-26
<zequence> sakrecoer: Seems someone fixed the desktop bug, by syncing with the latest Debian package
<zequence> Think that was the idea all along. Didn't hurt to take a swing at it and learn something during the process :)
<zequence> ..us trying to fix it, I mean
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-09-27
<sakrecoer> eylul, krytarik: got a repsonse from RT regarding the plug in.
<eylul> oh?
<eylul> result?
<eylul> *goes to check*
<sakrecoer> RT: "I am not confident that this plugin will play nicely with our read-only security model for Wordpress themes. "
<sakrecoer> RT: "Can you come up with a list of read-write resources it would need access to?  If it's just the database, we're probably fine, but I worry it needs access to the filesystem in ways we deliberately prevent"
<sakrecoer> eylul: https://rt.ubuntu.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=29028
<eylul> I *think* it only touches the database (the pages are saved on the database in some compressed format). as in it doesn't create new files? the only part I have doubts about is the template creation (which we do not use, because it is buggy anyway) I am not entirely sure through. as in it doesn't touch the theme at all. 
<eylul> sakrecoer: what I can do is to try to ftp into the stage to see if there are any files created by the plugin. I know it doesn't touch the theme. Not sure if it creates its own files somewhere through. I doubt it does but.. 
<eylul> ok if this thing is modifying anything the filesystem I am not seeing it. krytarik might have more ideas on this.
<sakrecoer> eylul: ok, i think we need a straight answer..
<sakrecoer> krytarik seemed to be meaning we might not need that plugin anymore...
<sakrecoer> not sure how or why, but today i leanred of another plugin by him, that we seem to use
<sakrecoer> Simple Custom CSS plugin
<sakrecoer> so, if we don't find a straight answer about what live-thing~plugin needs access to, i will tell RT to disregard it while i mention the simple-css-sthing-plugin
<eylul> yes, we were discussing that we should probably have both plugins available
<eylul> if possible
<eylul> but my argument is that handcoding everything should be the last resort, and we should aim to maintain a min hassle website that doesn't require people to know css hacks to do a content update. 
<sakrecoer> oh i agree, but it seems such a sollution also need to copmly with RT's rules...
<sakrecoer> *comply
<eylul> sakrecoer: that goes without saying. I am fairly certain it doesn't touch anything but the database through. 
<eylul> I wish I knew exactly what parts they keep as read only. I could recreate the setup somewhere and ensure the plugin works
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-10-01
<chamois> Hello everyone! sakrecoer : I think the video is finished. If you didn't see the last email, this is the link to the youtube video: https://youtu.be/Huyz5DhxLOI . Talking about the rendering process.. I read your email and if it's a problem for you I will render it on my own.
<chamois> These are some examples of rendered images with different samples: http://pasteall.org/pic/index.php?id=107322 .
<chamois> I forgot. In the video I used a texture from http://www.textures.com/. Is it a problem?
<sakrecoer> hello chamois! i saw it, sorry i didn't reply... It's perfect now, and yes, i can render it for you, unless you really want to do it yourself that is :)
<sakrecoer> about the texture: what license is it published with?
<flocculant> You are not permitted to:
<flocculant>  release the Photos or derivative products with Photos under Open Source Licences.
<flocculant> http://www.textures.com/terms-of-use.html
<sakrecoer> chamois: ^ so yes, it is a problem...
<flocculant> nice video though :)
<sakrecoer> :) it is... !
<sakrecoer> chamois: i struggle to spot the texture...
<sakrecoer> would it be difficult to replace?
<chamois> Sorry I was busy this is the texture : http://www.textures.com/download/leather0029/15206?q=leather 
<chamois> It is in the background of the video, in the same panel of "audio", "video" ...
<chamois> sakrecoer
<sakrecoer> chamois: yaa... haha... if you run low sampling you don't need that texture :p
<sakrecoer> the grain will come automagically from the cycle engine :D
<chamois> sakrecoer : Yeah ahah it was made for high samples, I'll change it.
<chamois> By the way how many samples do you think is best?
<sakrecoer> chamois: 10000 :p but you could easily use a procedural noise texture to emulate that image...
<sakrecoer> (i'm assuming you use it as displacement/bump or something like a normal map...?
<chamois> Ok I'll not be able to handle it
<sakrecoer> chamois: send me the blend file :)
<sakrecoer> i'll put it in the website asset repo too..
<sakrecoer> (i'm assuming you can't handle 1000 samples, but if you mean the texture, i can probably fix that too)
<sakrecoer> ah... and.. i ment 1000
<sakrecoer> thousand
<sakrecoer> not ten thousand lol :D
<sakrecoer> chamois: ^
<chamois> sakrecoer : http://pasteall.org/blend/index.php?id=43790
<sakrecoer> awesome chamois!
<chamois> I have to go now, write you tomorrow!
#ubuntustudio-devel 2017-10-01
<OvenWerks> with regard to the the bug report about using pkexec with -controls... I think the latest version does not need access to any GUI anything with PK anyway. But it would have to be released.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2018-09-26
<Eickmeyer> Big mention on Forbes, everyone! https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2018/09/25/open-source-challenge-why-one-band-chose-linux-to-record-their-new-album/#65c10f9e4439
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-09-24
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I don't know if you watch the mailing lists or not, but it may be a good deal to switch the upstream for a2jmidid to https://github.com/linuxaudio/a2jmidid
<OvenWerks> There has been a new release there. In particular it has been ported to python3
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Ok, well, we can do that for 20.04. I can get on packaging that.
<Eickmeyer> Probably not today, but I can do that relatively soon.
<studiobot> <teward001> yeah at this point you're too late in the cycle to switch ;)
<studiobot> <teward001> so you have to wait for 20.04
<Eickmeyer> @teward001 Obviously.
<Eickmeyer> But, yeah. Could even bug Ross to get it in Debian and then sync.
<Eickmeyer> I'll be out for a few hours.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer, teward: changing a2jmidid is not urgent, merely so as to be done before python2 goes away. The original upstream it seems has gone away and the new one has taken over/forked it so as to keep it from dying.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Then it needs to happen during the next cycle. Python2 is going away prior to 20.04's release.
<Eickmeyer> It's already being actively removed from Debian.
<OvenWerks> so if we want to keep it (until the same code finally gets wrapped into jackd2) we need to use the new upstream
<Eickmeyer> Agreed.
<teward> Heres a question...
<teward> Its a fork but does it officially replace it?  If jot then perhaps it should be considered the ânext genâ version with a separate package name.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-09-25
<Eickmeyer> teward: It officially replaces it, yes. a2jmidid has been abandoned, so this is logically picking it up.
<Eickmeyer> a2jmidid is a very key component of Ubuntu Studio.
<Eickmeyer> It's essentially the daemon that links midi devices to Jack.
<studiobot> <teward001> @Eickmeyer well if they're forks but ownership hasn't really transferred it sounds like a2jmidid-ng is the proper package name.
<studiobot> <teward001> but that's a Debian call
<studiobot> <teward001> which reminds me i need a sponsor for a package up there in their NEW
<Eickmeyer> Right. That's why I think we might have to leave this to Ross.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: https://lists.linuxaudio.org/archives/linux-audio-announce/2019-September/002726.html
<OvenWerks> From this ^^ I would suggest ownership has shifted.
<OvenWerks> Nedko hasn't been active for some time now.
<OvenWerks> There is no "forked" commit or changelog entry.
<Eickmeyer> @teward001: read OvenWerks above. It's shifted.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: are we missing a backdrop file?
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: We shouldn't be?
<OvenWerks> from the iso build log: dh_install: ubuntustudio-wallpapers missing files: usr/share/backgrounds/ubuntustudio/ubuntustudio_eoam_ermine.png
<Eickmeyer> Oh, I fixed that.
<OvenWerks> ok
<Eickmeyer> Reuploaded, rebuilt.
<OvenWerks> so I should dl the iso n try it out.
<Eickmeyer> I think the new one is built, so yeah.
<Eickmeyer> I'm likely to ppa-purge the machine I'm on right now and upgrade.
<OvenWerks> yikes!!
<Eickmeyer> Oh, it's standard procedure. Remove the backports PPA(s) to allow it to upgrade properly.
<OvenWerks> lots of changes since my last dl 72.%
<OvenWerks> wow kubuntu is 54%
<OvenWerks> do get the LAU mailing list?
<Eickmeyer> I do not.
<OvenWerks> falktx has a new jackd2 coming soon with meta data working properly. After the next release he is expecting to add the a2jmidid stuff directly into jackd2... after which we won't need a2jmidid any more.
<OvenWerks> There is hope the a2j version of jackd2 might make it into the stream in time for 20.04 but...
<OvenWerks> There is also plans to add zita-ajbridging into jackd2 as well. I do not know if that will make it so we don't need zita-ajbridge any more or if that will need to be loaded at jackd start time... in which case we eould still need it for hot plugging.
<Eickmeyer> That would be nice, and I hope he can release before 20.04.
<OvenWerks> well there will be one release for sure in the next month or so.
<OvenWerks> the rest I don't know, it takes time to get through debian depending on where they are in their cycle.
<Eickmeyer> Yeah. Shouldn't take too long. They're still pretty early in the release cycle for the next one.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-09-26
<studiobot> <teward001> @Eickmeyer [<Eickmeyer> @teward001: read OvenWerks above. It's shifted.], Cool
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: FYI https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/?id=70e6e1b971e46f5c1c2d72217ba62401a2edc22b
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Yeah, I saw that back in July. Basically makes the kernel lowlatency by default.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I don't know how soon we will see this in ubuntu, but it will be nice I think. 
<Eickmeyer> Yep.
<OvenWerks> No more how come Studio doesn't have a RT kernel?
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I hope so.
<Eickmeyer> FYI, new builds will be coming. They discovered some show-stoppers with Ubiquity and Casper.
<Eickmeyer> Might not have a beta until midnight.
<OvenWerks> should I still test then?
<OvenWerks> or wait?
<Eickmeyer> I'd wait.
<Eickmeyer> I'm watching for it to drop.
<OvenWerks> ok, in other news... my system now seems to boot with my crappy usb audio plugged in... but with no usb mouse (got new ps/2 mouse today)
<Eickmeyer> eeesh...
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: for some reason jackmixer shows up in media playback. Also where it should be in mixers.
<OvenWerks> in 19.10 ^^
<OvenWerks> I stumbled on an xfce bug (in my opinion) there is a setting to "Automatically give focus to newly created windows" This should only give focus to user created windows, not app created windows... I guess dialogs want that anyway.
<OvenWerks> I ad this happen when I was typing a letter and a warning box of some sort (from install) and my typing answered whatever question the dialog asked and closed it :P I still don't know what I did.
<OvenWerks> Actually, I don't know if what I want is possible...
 * OvenWerks still wants focus follows mind
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Yeah, all xfce bugs. Not sure why jackmixer is showing up where it is. Maybe might need to fix that in -default-settings.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-09-27
<Eickmeyer> We have a beta.
<OvenWerks> downloading
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> beta announcement up over at mastodon
<Eickmeyer> @azbulutlu: THANKS! Miss you!
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> I miss you guys too. sorry I vanished again. unexpected life occured. I'll try to get back to the new website layout this weekend or next week latest
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-09-28
<OvenWerks> jackd2 release on monday... too late for this cycle though. Hope there will be another jackd2 release before 20.04
<OvenWerks> (two for one)  ;)
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: If it gets into Debian very quickly, I *might* be able to get a FFe/SR in, but I'm not 100% comfortable with it without considerable testing, so yeah. 20.04 it is.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I wouldnt worry about it. I am more interested in the next release which should make a2jmidid obsolete. Release after that should include some of the zita-ajbridge stuff, but I don't know if that will really help
<OvenWerks> If using the ajbridge stuff requires a jack restart to use... or will allow only one extra device or both, zita-ajbridge will remain
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I agree. a2jmidid disappearing due to python2 is definitely a good reason to need it built-in to jackd, and since Filipe is getting ready to release soon, that will be huge.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: my reason for wanting a2jmidid gone is how confusing it is. The user sees a2j while they are looking for the external midi devices and does not connect the two. Having those devices apear with their own names would be great.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-09-29
<Eickmeyer> Agreed.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: The qjackctl systray/notifier item is messed up again. The icon doesn't display, and the menu either...
<Eickmeyer> How did that happen?!?
<OvenWerks> I guess we need to add more of it's functionality to controls
<OvenWerks> I would guess either Rui has changed something or xfce has.
<OvenWerks> ... or the lib that both rely on has
<Eickmeyer> Strange. I don't see any problems on my end. Did you remember to select "enable system tray icon"?
<OvenWerks> https://i.imgur.com/CEu7Zm5.png
<OvenWerks> That triangle is qjackctl
<Eickmeyer> I don't see that here. Can't reproduce. I have the standard qjackctl icon.
<OvenWerks> this is 19.10 BTW
<Eickmeyer> Same.
<OvenWerks> hm. I didn't change the icon theme
<Eickmeyer> I literally just tried it myself without issue. You /might/ have to go into qt5ct and select an icon theme.
<Eickmeyer> (it might not be selected)
<Eickmeyer> If that's the case, I'll fix the defaults file.
<OvenWerks> That didn't change anything and besides the menu doesn't work either
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, then there's something weird on your end. I can't reproduce.
<OvenWerks> maybe after a reboot...
<Eickmeyer> The system I'm on is a fresh install.
<OvenWerks> This too
<OvenWerks> Yuck, something new... some of the icons fade to BG colour if they have no mouse over.
<Eickmeyer> Again, that's weird. I can't reproduce that.
<OvenWerks> So I set up a second panel (on right display) and add items. Some of them can't be seen till I mouse over then they show.
<OvenWerks> I thought maybe they went dark so I changed the panel BG colour... but no they fade
<Eickmeyer> I do know xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin has a strange  bug where it won't show the proper volume level until you mouseover it, but I can't see any issues on the other side.
<OvenWerks> Try adding "Directory menu" to your panel.
<OvenWerks> The audio indicator? it seems fine here. The mute or on off button to the side of the level control is... ugly or out of place or something
<Eickmeyer> Ok, for the directory menu, I can see the problem with the dark icon, but once the menu is open no issues whatsoever. That's just a side-effect of having a dark panel with that icon theme. THe indicator icons have zero issues.
<Eickmeyer> Not ideal, but there's nothing we can do about it.
<OvenWerks> I know it is a design choice, but really, I need to see the icon before I get to it not after... how else do I know where it is?
<Eickmeyer> Can probably file a bug against the papirus icon theme.
<OvenWerks> It is not just dark, I tried making the panel background a light grey and the icon is still just as hard to see.
<OvenWerks> Oh hey, that sweird... problem solved
<Eickmeyer> O_o
 * Eickmeyer blames xfce 4.14 now.
<OvenWerks> when I changed the background back to None (use system theme) the problem went away
<Eickmeyer>  Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯
<OvenWerks> I can see my icons now.
<Eickmeyer> \o/
<OvenWerks> reboot to see if qjackctl behaves nicer
<OvenWerks> Hmm, the qjackctl icon is right, but it still has no left click menu
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, I can't reproduce that. Very odd.
<OvenWerks> re lsp plugins - lsp-plugins-ladspa.so gives undefines symbol
<OvenWerks> There are a whole pile of vst errors too.
<Eickmeyer> That's reallly weird. I can't reproduce that.
<OvenWerks> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/tFDGxRBqbR/
<OvenWerks> basically that is what showed up in Ardour in the plugin scan
<Eickmeyer> Again, very odd. I'm not seeing that at all.
<Eickmeyer> I've used Ardour and lsp-plugins several times over the past few days.
<OvenWerks> It only scans plugins if you ask it to. there are no errors on sedcond start (they are probably already blacklisted :)
<Eickmeyer> Ok, looking at that those plugins aren't meant to be run outside of a plugin host or the standalone clients.
<Eickmeyer> So, expected.
<OvenWerks> the carla rack does show up inside so that is ok.
<Eickmeyer> Yes, as it should.
<Eickmeyer> My clue is that not every LSP plugin was having difficulty in your log. Just the select few. I mean, it's about 90 plugins in total.
<OvenWerks> Ya, but none of the ladspa versions show up at all in the plugin selector.
<Eickmeyer> Screw the ladspa versions. Am I right?
<Eickmeyer> Those are just there for lmms as far as I'm concerned.
<OvenWerks> jsut want to see if they work in lmms
<Eickmeyer> ok
<OvenWerks> I see no lsp plugins in lmms
<OvenWerks> no errors either
<Eickmeyer> Hmmmm.....
<Eickmeyer> I'd bug report that to the developer. I worked with him on the packaging, and it doesn't build outside of any defaults.
<Eickmeyer> I can't check to reproduce right now, though.
<OvenWerks> can you run qtracktor?
<OvenWerks> I have blank menus
<Eickmeyer> qtracktor runs fine, no blank menus.
<OvenWerks> I am going to remove and reinstall it.
<OvenWerks> it sounds like the same problem as for qjackctl
<Eickmeyer> Yeah. Seems like the qt problems I was having (the reason I included qt5ct was to circumvent these problems).
<OvenWerks> kdenlive is fine
<Eickmeyer> kdenlive uses the KDE Frameworks, so not much surprise there.
<OvenWerks> reinstalling qtracktor does not grab any extra libs... 
<OvenWerks> still bad. It is like the items are there but I can't see them.
<Eickmeyer> Did you run qt5ct?
<Eickmeyer> I'm just curious.
<OvenWerks> I did... but I did not make any changes
<Eickmeyer> Ok, try to make a change and see what it does.
<OvenWerks> I can see menus
<OvenWerks> Oh I can hear myself type too... (just added a qtracktor track
<Eickmeyer> Ok, so that tells me qt5ct is the problem. *sigh*
<Eickmeyer> Might be something I need to work on in the seed.
<OvenWerks> still no menu for qjcakctl indicator.
<Eickmeyer> And -default-settings.
<Eickmeyer> Xfce might have to be restarted (or qjackctl) to get the menu for that.
<Eickmeyer> qt5ct doesn't make changes to running apps, unfortunately.
<OvenWerks> I started qjackctl after and the change did show up in the running qtractor
<Eickmeyer> Ok, that tells me theres things that still need to be tweaked. I'll try to fix that today. Could you do a bug report against ubuntustudio-default-settings and add ubuntustudio-meta to it? Just do it from https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntustudio-default-settings
<Eickmeyer> I might be removing qt5ct from the seed.
<OvenWerks> I changed the theme from windows to Fusion
<Eickmeyer> Default theme for qt5ct should be gtk2.
<OvenWerks> style sorry
<Eickmeyer> The style, I mean.
<OvenWerks> There are only two styles: windows and fusion
<Eickmeyer> Make sure that qt5-style-plugins is installed (maybe I omitted that from the seed).
<OvenWerks> not there
<Eickmeyer> Ok, there's the bug. File the bug against meta then, it's not a default-settings issue. I know what needs to be done.
<Eickmeyer> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntustudio-meta
<Eickmeyer> I forgot to include that package.
<Eickmeyer> Much easier bug to fix than -default-settings.
<OvenWerks> What should I label the bug?
<OvenWerks> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntustudio-meta/+bug/1845857
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1845857 in ubuntustudio-meta (Ubuntu) "qt5-style-plugins is missing" [Undecided,New]
<Eickmeyer> That works.
<Eickmeyer> I'll fix later today.
<OvenWerks> whenever
<OvenWerks> there is still no alsa-tools icon
<Eickmeyer> That's a known bug in hicolor, I thought.
<OvenWerks> could be, but we could either add our own icon or... file a bug with the right package ... and maybe supply an icon.
<OvenWerks> alsa-tools should include the icon
<Eickmeyer> Agreed, but it doesn't. Having our own icon would work too.
<OvenWerks> huh, alsa tools does not supply the desktop files either
<OvenWerks> Where do those come from?
<Eickmeyer> cd /usr/share/Applications
<Eickmeyer> oops... wrong window
<OvenWerks> Yes I remember now. they changed the icons
<Eickmeyer> Ah.
<OvenWerks> but did not change the desktop files to match.
<Eickmeyer> dpkg -S tells you which package provided a particular file.
<OvenWerks> alsa-tools-gui
<Eickmeyer> Ok, so they didn't fix that bug.
<OvenWerks> I am not sure where upstream would be for that
<OvenWerks> but it probably wasn't fixed because upstream hasn't
<OvenWerks> we could add one anyway... It seems to me it ends up being used as sort of a default for other packages as well
<Eickmeyer> Hmmm.... should the icon go in -icon-theme or -menu?
<OvenWerks> we added /usr/share/pixmaps/ffado.xpm at some point. I think it could be removed
<OvenWerks> ffado mixer has it's own icon now
<Eickmeyer> OK, we could remove that.
<Eickmeyer> If we want this to change before 19.10 final, we need bug reports, though.
<OvenWerks> that file doesnt have to be removed right now. but adding alsa-tools would be good which package do we want to bug?
<OvenWerks> -menu would make sense
<OvenWerks>  (to me)
<OvenWerks> we don't install -menu :)
<OvenWerks> where did we move that to?
<Eickmeyer> Uh... we do install menu. I have it installed right now.
<Eickmeyer> sudo apt search ubuntustudio-menu shows it installed.
<Eickmeyer> Go ahead and file it against -menu. It probably just needs a symlink.
<Eickmeyer> To the alsa-tools ico.
<Eickmeyer> *icon
<OvenWerks> there is no alsa-tools icon but that could be a symlink to almost any utility icon emblem-system for example.
<OvenWerks> like a setup icon
<Eickmeyer> I'll see what I can find.
<OvenWerks> preferences-activities, utilities-tweak-tool   I am not sure which packages these came from but there shouold be a generic setup icon that would work that comes with the basic icon set all ubuntu flavours use
<OvenWerks> the hicolor package only installs directories :P
<Eickmeyer> I'm notiing a lot of it comes from the elementary icon themes. There should be more, though.
<Eickmeyer> I'll keep investigating.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I just pushed and uploaded a fix for the icons and for the missing qt5-style-plugins. Awaiting release team approval since we're after beta freeze.
<Eickmeyer> I don't see why they wouldn't approve it
<Eickmeyer> Especially considering the bug fixes.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: ok
<OvenWerks> Normally nothing is said about any tweaks to flavour packages... 
<OvenWerks> But something that keeps menu from showing is a hard bug anyway.
<Eickmeyer> Exactly. I honestly can't believe I omitted that package from the seed.
<Eickmeyer> I also have a FFe/Sync Request for obs-studio which is a version newer in Sid, surprisingly.
<Eickmeyer> Vorlon had already mentioned it was a sensible request, so it'll probably get the green light.
<OvenWerks> cool
<OvenWerks> there has been another spin...
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, but this stuff isn't going to land in it.
<Eickmeyer> It has to be approved by the release team.
<OvenWerks> I know
<OvenWerks> might be other stuff
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: if you see drmacro on line, I would like to take to him. I have some more ideas (did some more reading)
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Ok, I'll keep an eye out.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Unrelated, new systemd dropped and broke Ubiquity:  bug 184573
<ubottu> bug 184573 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "nautilus crashed with SIGSEGV" [Medium,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/184573
<Eickmeyer> Oops, wrong bug.
 * OvenWerks gave up on Nautilus long ago.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks:  bug 1845730
<ubottu> bug 1845730 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "ubiquity crashed with FileNotFoundError in _execute_child(): [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/sbin/udevadm': '/sbin/udevadm'" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1845730
<Eickmeyer> I accidentally a digit.
<OvenWerks> systemd... does that mean we need to check if we still have memlock?
<Eickmeyer> No, that bug is fixed and not likely to regress.
<OvenWerks>  I guess we should check that anyway
<Eickmeyer> Basically, the Ubiquity installer is broken. So, new images won't install until that bug is fixed.
<OvenWerks> ok
<OvenWerks> we had two people do upgrades from 19.04 to 19.10 that failed BTW
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, not sure why.
<OvenWerks> I am wondering if ubuntustudio-backports was enabled
<OvenWerks> and if that could cause it
<Eickmeyer> That's a possiblity, in which case ppa-purge needs to be used to get rid of it and downgrade the packages to the repo version.
<Eickmeyer> That's what I had to do. I successfully upgraded an install with it.
<Eickmeyer> but only after ppa-purge.
<OvenWerks> might be worthwhile having a wiki page to point to for upgrades with a step by step
<Eickmeyer> It's already in the Backports PPA release notes as well as the PPA page itself.
<Eickmeyer> !ubuntustudio-backports
<ubottu> The Ubuntu Studio Backports PPA is required for users of Ubuntu Studio to receive LTS support for Ubuntu Studio 18.04, and for #ubuntustudio to support users of Ubuntu 18.04 LTS and its flavors using !jack. For more info, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/BackportsPPA, !ubuntustudio-controls, and !ubuntustudio-installer
<Eickmeyer> I can also add it to the release notes.
<OvenWerks> when doing an upgrade I would be looking for documentation on upgrading rather than PPAs
<Eickmeyer> Then it'll be in the release notes. That said, because it's beta, they are already warned that there are likely to be issues.
<OvenWerks> :)
