#ubuntu-manual 2010-03-08
<sebsebseb> Hi
<godbyk> lousy internet connection!
<Red_HamsterX> Upload-server/bzr status-queries implemented. Refactoring coming along. Stuff working.
<Red_HamsterX> More stuff to be working tomorrow.
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: cool!
<humphreybc> hi everyone, got our internet working again
<godbyk> humphreybc: nice.  mine's been up and down all night.
<godbyk> driving me nuts.
<humphreybc> it was awesome to see my cellphone beep every 10 mins with another rev commit email
<humphreybc> we're up to 450 already, amazing!
<godbyk> and my wireless mouse battery just died, so it's sitting on the charger while I practice using all the keyboard shortcuts. :)
<godbyk> humphreybc: I've been busy fixing little translation-related bugs.
<humphreybc> well you don't want to know the reason our internet was down
<godbyk> Well, I guess I did the glossary stuff earlier today, too.
<godbyk> did you have something unplugged? :)
<humphreybc> how'd you guess
<godbyk> humphreybc: https://www.ohloh.net/p/ubuntu-manual/  create an account and claim your contributor status. I'll set you up as a project manager, too.
<humphreybc> spent 6 hours on the phone, mainly on hold, with our ISP
<godbyk> humphreybc: something's always unplugged. (I used to be a sysadmin.)
<humphreybc> (it wasn't just me, there was the whole flat in the room with the router)
<humphreybc> and no one noticed it was unplugged... we even looked at it! oh well. haha
<IlyaHaykinson> nice. 11 minutes to do a full install of texlive2009
<humphreybc> downloading and all?
<IlyaHaykinson> nod
<IlyaHaykinson> that's from my work pc. fast machine, and a 60-70MBps network :)
<IlyaHaykinson> Mbps
<humphreybc> hoooooooly shit
<humphreybc> fastest i've seen on our home internet is 2500kbps but that was only for a few seconds
<IlyaHaykinson> for the last two years i've been pretty lucky to get 15MBps at home. but it's not 100% consistent.
<IlyaHaykinson> but the connection is crazy fast
<humphreybc> sweet
<IlyaHaykinson> makes downloading isos very easy.
<IlyaHaykinson> i've gotten a complete linux iso in 60 seconds before
<humphreybc> :O
<jaminday> godbyk: you there?
<titeuf_87> Red_HamsterX, I've been playing around with your screenshot upload code, it looks good so far :)
<Red_HamsterX> I'll be extending it a bit today. Adding sample calls, full-screen captures, and some other useful features.
<Red_HamsterX> Thanks for the feedback, though.
<Red_HamsterX> Note that I put convenience functions in __init__.
<titeuf_87> yeah, I had to fix it a little bit though as it wouldn't run otherwise
<Red_HamsterX> Oh?
<Red_HamsterX> I made a few untested changes last night.
<Red_HamsterX> And the only server-point currently accepting uploads is 'http://stellvia.uguu.ca/~flan/screencaps/'
<titeuf_87> there was a def capture in the __init__ and an import capture too, which made the capture function fail
<titeuf_87> I renamed the capture.py to capture_utils.py to fix that
<Red_HamsterX> Ah... Yeah, that would be me being stupid.
<titeuf_87> and in server.py a small syntax error, not sure what anymore
<Red_HamsterX> Could you reverse that? I've got a different naming convention I'd prefer to follow.
<Red_HamsterX> Meh. Syntax errors happen when refactoring after testing.
<Red_HamsterX> Thanks for catching it, though.
<titeuf_87> no problem. And it's just sitting in my own branch now. If you change it again I'll merge your changes in mine
<komsas> godbyk: hey
<godbyk> komsas: hey.
<godbyk> I'm back now.
<komsas> One question more from the content style, I found that in manual content some Gnome menus, like "Places", are with quotes others witout. Do you know the main style for menu elements punctuation?
<komsas> * without
<komsas> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/main/+pots/ubuntu-manual/en_GB/+translate?batch=10&show=all&search=Places
<komsas> one more ping godbyk :)
<godbyk> oh, hey.
<godbyk> I was just reading the email I missed while I was one.
<godbyk> Lemme read what you wrote
<godbyk> For formatting the names of menus, put them inside the \menu command.
<komsas> ah.. my english :))
<godbyk> So \menu{Places} will format the word Places appropriately to indicate it's a menu.
<komsas> I want to say, that somebody writting with quotes gnome menu word "Programs", somebody without quotes
<komsas> what is main style, with or without?
<godbyk> If someone wrote the word with quotes, they were wrong. :-)
<godbyk> They should've written \menu{Program}.
<komsas> oh..
<godbyk> Click on the \menu{File} menu.
<godbyk> (for instance)
<godbyk> If the word is the name of a menu (or menu item), then it should use the \menu command.
<komsas> so everybody did a lot of mistakes
<komsas> you can look in link where I paste before
<godbyk> Let me look at the link.
<godbyk> Yes, I think they should use \menu there.  So \menu{Places}.
<komsas> so in final version everywhere will be \menu?
<godbyk> komsas: I hope so. :-)
<komsas> how difficult it would be if word with \menu be with lithuanian or not quates in lithuanian version?
<komsas> would be to do *
<godbyk> It would be pretty easy.
<godbyk> If there are special formatting requirements for the Lithuanian language, let me know and I will accommodate them.
<komsas> ok I will have in mind
<godbyk> Also, the formatting for \menu (and \button, \checkbox, etc.) has not been finalized yet.  It may change.  But the \menu command will stay the same.
<komsas> I wrote for you about our quotes, we have different from english one.
<godbyk> That's okay. You can use your own quotes when you're translating.
<godbyk> If the quotes are being put in automatically, then I will fix it so that it uses Lithuanian quotes for your PDF.
<komsas> nice
<godbyk> I hope so. :-)
<komsas> ok thank you for info, I'm jumping to bed.
<komsas> bye
<godbyk> Good night, komsas.
<ubuntujenkins> windcfg
<ubuntujenkins> opps wrong window, aparently you can't activate windows by looking at them.
<dutchie> that's what the focus on mouseover thing is for
<ubuntujenkins> I have focus mouseover I was physically looking at the window with my eyse \o/
<dutchie> I'm sure that I saw something about eye tracking
<ubuntujenkins> that would be cool
 * humphreybc realizes that beta release of lucid is only 9 days away
 * ubuntujenkins ouch
 * humphreybc realizes that our writing freeze is 22 days away
 * humphreybc shits pants
 * ubuntujenkins realizes he has three parts still to write and uni work
 * humphreybc realizes this too
 * godbyk realizes he needs to finish the document design already.
<godbyk> I think I have all the translations sorted except the Korean and Chinese. I couldn't find email addresses for those translators to get help.
<ubuntujenkins> you can contact them using lauchpad
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: I didn't see their email addresses listed there.
<godbyk> I'm not too worried about the Korean one right now, as it appears that none of it has actually been translated yet.
<godbyk> Some of the Chinese translations have been moving along, though.
<godbyk> I just don't want anyone to get left behind. :)
<ubuntujenkins> there should still be a contact the user button on the right of the profile of the user
 * ubuntujenkins double checks
<humphreybc> do you guys use gmail?
<ubuntujenkins> yes
<humphreybc> do you use labels and delete stuff, or do you just keep everything in your inbox?
<ubuntujenkins> I use labels to sort them intofolders and delete them from the inbox
<humphreybc> hmm
<humphreybc> you're far more organized than I
<humphreybc> i should probably start doing that
<ubuntujenkins> It useful all the manual ones end up in one folder
<godbyk> I use labels.
<godbyk> I star anything that I still need to take action on.
<godbyk> Then select all unstarred and archive.
<godbyk> so starred items stay in my inbox where I can see them.
<ubuntujenkins> can someone please send my the link to ubuntu manual translations, I can't view our main page
<godbyk> humphreybc: I don't think the Ubuntu font is available yet, is it?
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual
<humphreybc> not the full font no
<godbyk> humphreybc: is the font available *at all*?
<ubuntujenkins> thanks godbyk
<godbyk> I haven't seen a download link yet.
<humphreybc> thorsten will have access to it
<daker> hi @all
#ubuntu-manual 2010-03-09
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk this is the only active hinese (Traditional) translator https://launchpad.net/~pswo10680 click the "contact user on the right" not may translations so far though
<ubuntujenkins> hi daker
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: 'kay. thanks. maybe I'll wait and see if they continue translating it.
<godbyk> I'd be okay with fewer translations. :-)
<ubuntujenkins> It would be good though if we can get them all done and 100% compete would be sweet
 * ubuntujenkins tries englishuk translations
 * humphreybc now has folders
 * humphreybc is changing the way he uses his desktop. instead of being clear, it is now a dumping ground.
<godbyk> that's what mine is.
<godbyk> everything gets dumped there.
<humphreybc> yeah
<godbyk> then, when there's too much crap littering my desktop, I create a new folder called 'stuff that was on the desktop' and drag everything into that folder.
<godbyk> lather, rinse, repeat.
<ubuntujenkins> I have somany folders like that to tidy up :-)
<humphreybc> hahaha
<humphreybc> question. if you were designing a new website for lunarnumbat.org, what would it look like?
<ubuntujenkins> what the ..... that is crazy
<humphreybc> i've been meaning to create a new one for them for the last few days, and i've been thinking a lot on what to do but i just can't think of anything cool other than just a standard website
<ubuntujenkins> "a Linux powered robotic Australian marsupial, on the moon" \o/
<humphreybc> :)
 * ubuntujenkins wishes I was as fluent in german as I am in uk/usa english :P
<daker> can you pls explain to me how to get work with bazaar, because i have some worries
<ubuntujenkins> what are your worries?
<daker> well, i have read the documentation about bazaar
<daker> how can i work with bazaar
<daker> when to use pull and push
<ubuntujenkins> you do pull before starting on some work
<ubuntujenkins> do your work, then do pull
<daker> and if i made a changes ?
<ubuntujenkins> then do bzr commit -m "Description of what you have changed"
<ubuntujenkins> then do a push
<humphreybc> well he should pull first, then do work, then pull again
<daker> that's all ?
<ubuntujenkins> thats what I said :-$
<humphreybc> and you shouldn't spend more than an hour on work without committing, to avoid conflict
<humphreybc> oh right
<daker> ah oki
<humphreybc> sorry i didn't see the first bit ubuntujenkins :)
<ubuntujenkins> yes thats it
<ubuntujenkins> no problems humphreybc
<daker> that's all ?
<ubuntujenkins> just to stress the pint daker make sure you do a pull again before you do your commit jsut in case someone has done work at the saem time as you
<humphreybc> yep
<ubuntujenkins> *point
<daker> oki great
<daker> so pull get me sync to the last version ?
<ubuntujenkins> yes
<daker> great
<daker> other thing
<daker> so last we made a change on the countdown version of the website
<daker> on the style.css and when i pull
<daker> i got 3 new files
<daker> style.css.BASE
<daker> style.css.OTHER
<daker> style.css.THIS
<daker> and the original file
<daker> style.css
<ubuntujenkins> erm not sure on that one I have no dealings with the website I am afraid
<daker> TommyBrunn, is not here :s
<daker> in the style .css i have
<daker> .center {
<daker>    width: 430px;
<daker>    height: auto;
<daker> <<<<<<< TREE
<daker>    margin: -100px auto;
<daker> =======
<daker>    position: absolute;
<daker>    left: 50%;
<daker>    top: 20px;
<daker>    margin-left: -215px;
<daker> >>>>>>> MERGE-SOURCE
<daker>    background-image: url(middlebg.png);
<daker> }
<daker> this <<<<<<< TREE
<daker> and >>>>>>> MERGE-SOURC
<daker> and the ========
<daker> what means ?
<ubuntujenkins> ooo fun a merge! not that its a problem in her but !Paste is useful
<ubuntujenkins> *here
<ubuntujenkins> that means that two people mad a change in the same file and there was a diffence
<ubuntujenkins> !paste
<manualbot> For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://ubuntu.pastebin.com | To post !screenshots use http://tinyurl.com/imagebin | !pastebinit to paste directly from  command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic
<daker> funny we have a bot :)
<ubuntujenkins> yes not always 100% awake though
<daker> its me and TommyBrunn
<ubuntujenkins> erm the only thing I can suggest is to work out who made the changes and which ones are better/ the ones that are need.
<ubuntujenkins> between you to then :-)
<daker> i am going to be crasy with bzr
<ubuntujenkins> it rarley happens that there is a merge. bzr is very useful for a project like this
<daker> i know that's very useful
<daker> so ti get work i have to remove the <<<<<<< TREE and the other >>>>>>>MERGE....
<ubuntujenkins> and possibly the ============
<daker> it will not cause problems ?
<ubuntujenkins> as long as the rest of the css makes sense still it is fine. Those lines are ther to help you make sense of which parts came form where
<daker> i understand
<ubuntujenkins> cool
<daker> and imagine if i have a file with a hundreds of lines of codes and have many people have made a changes on this file
<ubuntujenkins> I can imagine it could be hard to keep track off
<daker> so who will work on the website ? and what is the plan ?
<humphreybc> daker, not sure and we don't have a plan :)
<humphreybc> welcome to the team!
<daker> thanks humphreybc
<humphreybc> :P
<daker> a short presentation
<daker> 21 year
<daker> from Morocco
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc quickshot is making good progress thanks to Red HamsterX and titeuf 87.
<ubuntujenkins> welcome darker
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: oh really? that's great news!
<ubuntujenkins> *daker
<daker> :)
<ubuntujenkins> we have the screenshots being taken and sent to a webserver
 * ubuntujenkins thinks it may be time for bed to many typos
<ubuntujenkins> and the time out on resolution change is working.
<ubuntujenkins> any way night all
<daker> humphreybc, !!!
<humphreybc> daker, what?
<daker> daker@daker-laptop:~/ubuntu-manual$ bzr pull
<daker> Using saved parent location: bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/main/
<daker> Unable to obtain lock file:///home/daker/ubuntu-manual/.bzr/branch/lock
<daker> held by adnane002@gmail.com on host daker-laptop [process #4261]
<daker> locked 4 hours, 24 minutes ago
<daker> Will continue to try until 01:34:17, unless you press Ctrl-C.
<daker> See "bzr help break-lock" for more.
<daker> daker@daker-laptop:~/ubuntu-manual$ bzr pull
<daker> Using saved parent location: bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/main/
<daker> Unable to obtain lock file:///home/daker/ubuntu-manual/.bzr/branch/lock
<daker> held by adnane002@gmail.com on host daker-laptop [process #4261]
<daker> locked 4 hours, 24 minutes ago
<daker> Will continue to try until 01:34:17, unless you press Ctrl-C.
<daker> See "bzr help break-lock" for more.
<daker> what's the problem ?
<daker> that's the 4th time
<humphreybc> do bzr help break-lock
<humphreybc> godbyk, dutchie, you guys remember how to break a bzr lock?
<godbyk> yeah
<godbyk> had to do it last night
<godbyk> run bzr break-lock lp:ubuntu-manual
<daker> godbyk, can you explan what's going on
<godbyk> it happened to me the other night.  my internet was up and down.
<godbyk> and it went down in the middle of a push
<godbyk> so that locked the branch.
<godbyk> I had to bzr break-lock lp:ubuntu-manual to fix it.
<godbyk> then bzr push worked.
<daker> oki
<daker> godbyk, humphreybc how we can organize work on the website ?
<humphreybc> daker, not sure. the website isn't particularly high on the priority list at the moment. the mockups for the website are under /website/source and basically all we need is someone to create a functional site from the mockups
<humphreybc> obviously physicists and astronomers aren't very good at web design, http://www.micro-space.com/
<godbyk> humphreybc: physicists invented the web.
<daker> godbyk, +1
<humphreybc> that doesn't necessarily mean they know how to make it look pretty ;)
<humphreybc> godbyk, i've done a quick mockup for the lunarnumbat website but it looks very similar to the one I did for our team haha
<godbyk> heh.. it happens.
<humphreybc> i think i'm stuck in a design rut where i can only design one type of layout :P
<godbyk> maybe you should try something completely different.
<godbyk> glance through smashingmagazine.com for inspiration.
<humphreybc> okay, i have an idea for something totally different
<humphreybc> http://www.flickr.com/photos/humphreybc/4418848750/
<humphreybc> i was thinking of going really dark, like black background, white text - that's more "spacey"
<humphreybc> but then the readability takes a nose dive
<humphreybc> in saying that, http://www.nasa.gov/
<godbyk> heh
<humphreybc> it's quite hard designing something with a circular logo
<godbyk> http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2008/06/11/space-wallpapers-and-nebula-wallpapers/
<daker> godbyk, the same problem
<daker> daker@daker-laptop:~/ubuntu-manual$ bzr pull
<daker> Using saved parent location: bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/main/
<daker> Unable to obtain lock file:///home/daker/ubuntu-manual/.bzr/branch/lock
<daker> held by adnane002@gmail.com on host daker-laptop [process #4261]
<daker> locked 4 hours, 49 minutes ago
<daker> Will continue to try until 01:59:02, unless you press Ctrl-C.
<daker> See "bzr help break-lock" for more.
<godbyk> daker: I tried pulling and it worked for me.
<godbyk> try running 'bzr break-lock' (without the lp:ubuntu-manual) and see what happens
<daker> its work
<daker> great
<daker> fine :)
<humphreybc> godbyk, http://www.flickr.com/photos/humphreybc/4418941162/
<daker> good night
<godbyk> g'night, daker
<godbyk> humphreybc: better, but I'd incorporate the textblock into the background more.
<humphreybc> how so?
<humphreybc> turn the opacity down a bit so the background shows through a tad?
<godbyk> instead of gray, let the background show through, yeah.
<godbyk> lose the serif font, too.
<godbyk> go sans.
<humphreybc> sans for all?
<godbyk> yeah
<humphreybc> howcome?
<humphreybc> only the title is serif at the moment
<godbyk> 'cause sans will look more modern.
<humphreybc> true
<humphreybc> i purposely left out the "About us" title
<humphreybc> do you think i need it?
<godbyk> I dunno.
<humphreybc> hmm
<humphreybc> godbyk, http://www.flickr.com/photos/humphreybc/4418304077/in/photostream/
<godbyk> not too bad.. not a huge fan of the glow/shadow, though.
<humphreybc> the idea is that the logo is the moon
<humphreybc> and it's an eclipse and... stuff
<humphreybc> everybody knows that space is glowy! :P
<godbyk> I see.
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> so godbyk what's happening with the screenshots? have you been testing how to get them into the manual?
<humphreybc> and we decided that the distortion was evince's fault, right?
<godbyk> it looks like they were taken at a resolution higher than 800x600.
<humphreybc> the ones I took?
<godbyk> and yeah, I think we decided that evince was the culprit and sucked at scaling.
<humphreybc> they were taken at a resolution higher than 800x600
<humphreybc> you want me to send you some at 800x600?
<godbyk> yes, please.
<godbyk> then I can see what scaling factor I should use and make it consistent across all the screenshots.
<humphreybc> k
<humphreybc> okay i'm just going to put them in the branch now
<humphreybc> okay, just pushed
<humphreybc> lucid-screens/800x600
 * humphreybc thinks digiKam seriously needs a better menu icon
 * humphreybc also thinks it's time for dinner, back in about an hour!
<humphreybc> TommyBrunn: ping
<komsas> hey godbyk
<komsas> I saw that after translation sync some translated strings disappeared and this is not first time ;/
<komsas> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/main/revision/423/po/lt.po - on 440 line, all lithuanian translation was deleted
<komsas> and now on https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/main/+pots/ubuntu-manual/lt/43/+translate we don't have it. If someone changed english string, transalted string must be marked like suggestion.
<komsas> and there are more translated strings which disappeared
 * ubuntujenkins finds it anoying when people don't do a pull before they commit stuff
<godbyk> komsas: Is it because those strings were changed in the original (English) text? Rosetta forces you to translate them again from scratch?
<komsas> yes, they disappeared, not went to "fuzzy" mode.
<godbyk> I'm not sure if that's Rosetta's fault or po4a's fault.  I would recommend pinging dutchie about it.  He's the expert there. :)
<komsas> I know that, you are latex guy :)) but I said dutchie one time about this problem, because this is not first time.
<komsas> ok, when he will be, I will ping him.
<komsas> godbyk: do you know when writting will "freeze" and we can translate easily? Now we seeing that adds more and more content and it looks like there no end :))
<godbyk> komsas: The writing freeze is on 31 March.
<komsas> ah.. they changed the date ;/ we will have only more then 20 days.
<ubuntujenkins> hello daker
<daker> hello
<daker> :)
<daker> how r u ?
<ubuntujenkins> I am good thanks, u?
<daker> fine thanks
<ubuntujenkins> good good
<dutchie> am I in trouble again?
<ubuntujenkins> I don't know why do you ask?
<dutchie> 16:39:18 < komsas> I know that, you are latex guy :)) but I said dutchie one time about this problem, because this is not first time.
<ubuntujenkins> I wasn't here then I am afraid
 * ubuntujenkins sees a tumble weed roll through the channel.
<godbyk> dutchie: komsas was just talking about the translations.  apparently they're not being marked as 'fuzzy', they're just being flagged as non-existent.
<godbyk> (brb)
<godbyk> (back now)
<dutchie> I think it's launchpad's fault
<dutchie> it might just be easier to ban people from translating in-branch
<dutchie> \o/ manual merge reslving time
<dutchie> resolving(
<godbyk> yippee!
<maiatoday> lo Kilos, great thanks, super busy
<maiatoday> oops wrong channel, sorry
<komsas> dutchie: hey, can you look to my and godbyk conversation and tell something about it http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/03/09/%23ubuntu-manual.html#t13:56 ?
 * dutchie blames launchpad
<dutchie> It may also be something to do with people translating things in the bzr branch
<dutchie> hang on, need a drink to deal with this spicy food
<komsas> bon appetite!
<komsas> :)
<dutchie> <-- low spice tolerance
<dutchie> so this happened recently with the lt translations?
<komsas> yes, today morning I saw it, that some translations disappeared
<komsas> then I looked to branch and commits
<komsas> and saw that http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/main/revision/423/po/lt.po after this commit it was 03-06, all get wrong.. but how u said it rosseta problem.
<dutchie> because rosetta wiped out the translations with its export I think
<komsas> and it is not first time, I said something about it early
<komsas> but others translations marked like fuzzy i think
<komsas> in that string who had changes
<komsas> but not all
 * dutchie is investigating
<my0373> latex
<godbyk> What was that?
 * dutchie shrugs
<komsas> dutchie: can I help you somehow to find problem ?
<dutchie> I'm just hunting through bzr history
<dutchie> I'll get there
<dutchie> a new template just got imported, how does it look?
 * komsas going to check..
<komsas> dutchie: why translation lines dropped from 1400 to 1364?
<dutchie> because that's how many items po4a found
<dutchie> I presume that some paragraphs have disappeared since the last import
<komsas> dutchie: I found that this line was translated, no it is empty https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/main/+pots/ubuntu-manual/lt/43/+translate
<komsas> * now
<dutchie> if the translation disappeared before, it's not going to magically reappear, unfortunately
<dutchie> have any more gone?
 * komsas checking..
<komsas> dutchie: it is more then 50
<dutchie> more than 50 gone?
<komsas> yes
<dutchie> bloody hell
<issyl0> I translated some en_GB earlier
<dutchie> please don't tell me it's gone
<komsas> thanks god that there is branch where I can find them, but all our team is so disappointed. I think if like this will be in the future we must wait when all content will freeze.
<komsas> dutchie: I think all languages have same problems ;)
<dutchie> yeah
 * dutchie opens a rosetta bug
<issyl0> What are you saying?  The en_GB ones I did earlier are still intact...
<issyl0> Have some of then disappeared?
<issyl0> s/n/m/
<issyl0> Well, yes.
<issyl0> Ew.
<komsas> 15% of lines disappeared ;)) it is difference between .po file (from branch) and translations from launchpad.
<issyl0> Ohh, right. :(
<dutchie> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/rosetta/+bug/535371
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 535371 in rosetta "Translations keep disappearing" [Undecided,New]
<issyl0> :)
<komsas> dutchie: so now is best solutions? to export from rosetta and merge, and then import back?
<dutchie> komsas: I'll see what sort of feedback I get on the bug
<dutchie> I'm going to hold off doing any updates for a bit too
<komsas> but what to do for translator, they don't want to translate again that lines
<komsas> so I will export .po from rosetta, merge, import back
<dutchie> that's what I do now?
<dutchie> s/?/;)/
<komsas> ok, I will do how said and all be happy :)
<godbyk> Hey, dutchie.. I've got a po4a question for ya.  Can I tell po4a that certain LaTeX commands should be flagged as 'don't translate' and then they'll just be left out of rosetta entirely?
<godbyk> things like \coverpage or \then.
<Red_HamsterX> ubuntujenkins, I'm afraid yesterday (and, it appears, today) was filled with too many personal obligations to get much done. I'll see if I can get a few hours before sleeping to take care of the inconsistent stuff, though.
<dutchie> don't know, godbyk
<dutchie> po4a is not brilliantly documented
<dutchie> I think I'm going to have to sit down and read through the source at some point :(
<godbyk> I've noticed that.
<godbyk> If you figure anything out (or stumble across a cache of docs), let me know.
<godbyk> It would save the translators and me a bit of time.
<godbyk> (Since I have to go in and repair the mistakes all the time.)
<dutchie> stupid busy life
<dutchie> don't expect anything until the weekend
<godbyk> no worries.
<dutchie> oh god, it's in CVS
<godbyk> Classic!
 * dutchie has heard nothing but bad things about CVS
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX, thats no problem at all, we all have other things to do. Please let me know when you would like me to do some testing, I am afraid the technical ins and out of how to make it work are now over my head.
<ubuntujenkins> You an simon have been making great progress
<komsas> dutchie: and one more stupid question from me, what you think that all \todo{"text"} disappear from translations, they only confusing, don't help anything for translators.
<dutchie> the \screenshotTODO{} things?
<dutchie> they'll go once we have screenshots
<godbyk> dutchie: no, there's a new \todo command.
<komsas> no, text like this "In this manual, we only cover Ubuntu\todo{This needs rephrasing... there are many versions of Ubuntu, but this manual only covers Ubuntu... confusing.}, but don't let that stop you from trying out different variants in the future."
<godbyk> komsas: translators can ignore the \todo commands.
<godbyk> they're just notes for editors and readers while we finish writing the manual.
<dutchie> I presume this is something I should be finding in/hacking into po4a
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX have we solved the full screen windows with compiz problem?
<godbyk> right.. ignore the \todo{This needs...confusing.} bit.
<komsas> so why they are in translations, it better to find solution how to seperate translation from editors.
<godbyk> dutchie: it'd be handy if we could tell po4a to just leave that out of the translations.
<Red_HamsterX> ubuntujenkins, I haven't tried that, actually. I'll give it a shot now, though.
<ubuntujenkins> cool if it doesn't work I can try and do some research on how we can get it working.
<godbyk> komsas: they are in the translations because I don't know how to remove them yet.
<komsas> link paragraph line with comment or.. mm..
<komsas> yee.. for now only po4a can help ;) dutchie good luck:)
<godbyk> komsas: the \todo command actually prints the text in the margin so you can see it in the PDF.
<komsas> yee I saw that future, but then all translation sync and now we are not happy ;)
<komsas> + problems with disappearing strings.. :))
<Red_HamsterX> ubuntujenkins, a full-screen capture of a terminal worked just fine using Compiz and 9.10.
<Red_HamsterX> I'm committing a few minor syntax fixes now.
<Red_HamsterX> (Well, after pulling changes)
<ubuntujenkins> thats good will main work after your commit?
<Red_HamsterX> I'm not sure. I'm still working on library stuff, not GUI stuff.
<Red_HamsterX> I think titeuf was working more on the GUI integration.
<ubuntujenkins> are there any extra buttons /windows we need to add?
<Red_HamsterX> Again, I'm not sure. I'm focusing on building an API to handle the behind-the-scenes work.
<Red_HamsterX> Knowing where the list of screencaps to be taken should reside would help me a lot, though.
<Red_HamsterX> Since I could finalize the query-status routine.
 * ubuntujenkins finds the latest list
<Red_HamsterX> I mean where it should be architecturaly.
<Red_HamsterX> Whether it should be read from bzr, pushed to the client, or deployed statically to the upload-server.
<Red_HamsterX> pushed to/pushed with
<ubuntujenkins> I see
<Red_HamsterX> I'm not sure who I'll be discussing that with, though.
<Red_HamsterX> Any location's fine with me. The problem is putting it somewhere where it can be easily maintained.
<Red_HamsterX> That kinda eliminates the upload-server.
<ubuntujenkins> @ all when is the freeze for the screenshots that we want to be added to the manual
<manualbot> ubuntujenkins: Error: "all" is not a valid command.
<Red_HamsterX> I'm thinking it should be bundled with the client, since any new screencaps to be taken will liekly need additional scripting logic to go with them.
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: I would see what humphreybc thinks ask the channel in general and ask titeauf_87
<Red_HamsterX> (So it's all coupled anyway, given that we likely won't have time to write/embed a scripting language of our own in time)
<ubuntujenkins> if the list needs updating how would we get it to the client?
<ubuntujenkins> update the ppa?
<Red_HamsterX> I'm thinking, at this stage, that if the list needs updating, the client will need more than a filename/summary.
<Red_HamsterX> If we start building automation into it, we'll need scripting rules.
<Red_HamsterX> Simulated clicks, window positioning... That sort of thing.
<Red_HamsterX> Until we have time to design and implement an engine to handle that (which will probbaly have to wait for 10.10), attempting to decouple the design would probably just hurt the timeline.
<Red_HamsterX> Of course, we shouldn't tightly couple anything.
<Red_HamsterX> Which is why I need to speak ot the GUI people.
<ubuntujenkins> hunphreybc desgins the gui, the other main people are me you titeuf_87 and TommyBrunn on the project. with help from other of course :-)
<ubuntujenkins> If the manual has a deadline for when people have to choose which screenshots they want that would help us allot right?
<dutchie> it does
<Red_HamsterX> That would help narrow the scope considerably.
<Red_HamsterX> But my dillema would still exist, minor though it is.
<Red_HamsterX> It's one of those things that seems trivial, but which can have a lot of influence on the project in the future.
<ubuntujenkins> when is it dutchie?
<ubuntujenkins> I am getting confused Red_HamsterX its been along day. whats the problem again?
<Red_HamsterX> I dunno where to put data.
<Red_HamsterX> The accepted screenshots are currently read from bzr and the pending ones are read from the server.
<dutchie> ubuntujenkins: there are quite a few freezes along the way
<Red_HamsterX> But there's a need for a comprehensive list of everything that's required.
<Red_HamsterX> We need to decide where that list should reside.
<dutchie> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual#Key Dates for the 0.0 series (Lucid)
<dutchie> bah
<dutchie> you can see what I mean
<ubuntujenkins> nice
<dutchie> not sure how up-to-date that is
<dutchie> ask ben when he appears
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX I am not sure where it should go myself how it is sounds fine to me
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: I'd recommend keeping the list on the web server.
<dutchie> Ubuntu Manual content freeze: 21st March 2010
<Red_HamsterX> godbyk, that provides a nice, central location for it, but it also changes the server's role.
<dutchie> Ubuntu Manual writing freeze: 31st March 2010
<ubuntujenkins> I will ask ben which one it is covered in
<Red_HamsterX> Rather than simply being a data-dump and access point, it becomes something that needs maintenance.
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: I guess I was thinking that the server handles all the QuickShot interaction and will sit between quickshot and bzr.
<Red_HamsterX> Which isn't much of a problem by itself, but it adds a bit of logisitcal complexity.
<godbyk> So quickshot doesn't need to deal with bzr at all, just the server.
<Red_HamsterX> godbyk, that could work, too. I'll contemplate the changes that would be needed.
<ubuntujenkins> I have no dealings with operating a server so can't really help
<godbyk> I haven't been following the quickshot discussion at all.. but if you were wanting scripts to run, those could be pulled from the server, too.  it's python, so plugins and other forms of extensibility are pretty easy.
<ubuntujenkins> The python has gone over my skill level so I am more of a spectator now, doing some gui work as an when it needed
<ubuntujenkins> night all
#ubuntu-manual 2010-03-10
<humphreybc> MootBot left the room? NOoo!
<godbyk> MootBot was happy 'til you showed up, humphreybc!
<humphreybc> :(
<humphreybc> HA
<humphreybc> hi MootBot
<ferry> hello all
<humphreybc> hi ferry
<TommyBrunn> Hey humphreybc. You still there?
<humphreybc> yep
<TommyBrunn> Good thing I caught you before you went to bed. Do you have any idea what's going on with Quickshot at the moment? I talked to Neil a few days ago, but we never got into any specifics about what's being done.
<humphreybc> no idea whatsoever
<humphreybc> :)
<humphreybc> I actually wanted to talk to you about it :P
<TommyBrunn> Heh. I'm afraid I'm probably just as out of the loop as you are.
<humphreybc> bummer
<TommyBrunn> Red_HamsterX, are you there?
<humphreybc> you're supposed to be lead dev!
<humphreybc> xD
<TommyBrunn> Hey, I handed that off to Neil! ;)
<humphreybc> hahaha
<humphreybc> where's the email from your uni?
<humphreybc> i've been waiting to try out my formal reply
<TommyBrunn> I'm guessing they just decided that they had no interest in talking to you. I've been in contact with my handler for a week or so, but he hasn't said a word about wanting to speak to you.
<TommyBrunn> He does however want me to keep a freaking diary.
<humphreybc> a diary? lol!
<humphreybc> well you need to know what's happening then :P
<TommyBrunn> Yeah, I kinda do. With the restructuring of the server-client model I don't know what needs doing, so I feel a tiny bit useless here.
<TommyBrunn> Oh, it's 3am where Neil's at. Then I guess he won't be around for at least another 6 hours or so.
<TommyBrunn> Why can't the earth be flat? It would make things so much easier.
<TommyBrunn> Oh well. I'm going to hop into the shower for a bit. I'll probably be back... After you've gone to bed already. :P
<humphreybc> righto!
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: hi, i'm off to sleep now. TommyBrunn is around somewhere, talk to him about quickshot :)
<humphreybc> see if you can get Red_HamsterX in the conversation too, and if you like it might be worthwhile setting up a mailing list for the quickshot devs team
<humphreybc> chow!
<ubuntujenkins> cool night humphryebc I will talk to TommyBrunn tonnight
<ubuntujenkins> we have a mailing list people quickshotdevs@lists.launchpad.net
<ubuntujenkins> quickshot discussion tonight?
<TommyBrunn> ubuntujenkins: Yeah, I'd really like to get some more structure into the development, and make sure that we're all on the same page. I figured we should go through the entire program step by step, and then update the wiki page accordingly.
<TommyBrunn> A mailing list would be great, since we're all in wildly different time zones.
<ubuntujenkins> TommyBrunn the mailing list is quickshotdevs@lists.launchpad.net not everyone is subscribed to it though. I am in and out all day so just leave me a message and I will get back
<ubuntujenkins> to you
<TommyBrunn> Yeah, I've sent an email to it already.
<ubuntujenkins> just found it
<komsas> godbyk: ""\newglossaryentry{applet}{name={applet},description={An applet is a small program that runs in a \gls{panel} that provides a useful function such as starting a program, viewing the time, or accessing the main menu.}}"
<komsas> what we can translate? from tags..
<godbyk> komsas: You can translate the name and description.  Leave the first argument untranslated.
<godbyk> komsas: And then, in the regular document, leave the \gls, \glspl, \Gls, and \Glspl stuff untranslated.
<komsas> godbyk: thanks
<komsas> u
<godbyk> If you have questions about what parts to translate or not to translate, let me know
<godbyk> .(I'm not sure how clear I was. :-))
<komsas> godbyk: ok, you are my first help here in any question :))
<abhi_nav> is it ok to translate ubuntu-manual in june? now i dont have time for it
<abhi_nav> hey
<abhi_nav> please tell me
<abhi_nav> i am confused dont have time now
<abhi_nav> what to do?
<thorwil> vish, godbyk: what do you think of http://www.foopics.com/get/273eee35fab1d6a1c8f04e48be0566f8/0 ?
<c7p> hello guys, what should i translate from this string  \newglossaryentry{kernel}{name={kernel},description={....}}
<ubuntujenkins> hello all
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk I could make a guess but to save it being messed up what shoudl be translated out of this? what should i translate from this string  \newglossaryentry{kernel}{name={kernel},description={....}}  (c&p)
<ubuntujenkins> *(c7p)
<godbyk> Ah.
<godbyk> Leave the first 'kernel' untranslated.  translate the second kernel (the name), and translate the .... (description).
<c7p> ok thank you both guys
<godbyk> To a translation to pig latin would look like:
<ubuntujenkins> thanks godbyk , I will be able to help people with that question now
<godbyk> \newglossaryentry{kernel}{name={ernelkay}, description={isthay iskay akay escriptionay.}}
<c7p> nice
<godbyk> thorwil: looks neat. what's it for?
<c7p> sorry for the interruption godbyk. i have this string \pageref{sec:installation:using-wubi} , what should i translate?
<godbyk> c7p: you're not interrupting anything.  Leave all of that as-is (do not translate it).
<godbyk> somewhere along the way, you'll see \label:sec:installation:using-wubi} and you should leave that untranslated, too.
<c7p> another question , in the \begingroup\parindent=0pt\parskip=0pt Revision number: 447\qquad  Revision date: 2010-03-07 15:15:15 -0600
<c7p> what should i do
<godbyk> you can leave all that alone, too.
<godbyk> (it gets inserted each time you run the 'make' command, so anything you do there will be overwritten)
<c7p> i guess the \chaplink{software-and-packaging} i leave it as it is, right?
<godbyk> in the end, that line won't appear.  it's just there for now so we can keep track of which version of the PDF we're looking at.
<godbyk> c7p: yep.
<c7p> thank you again :)
<godbyk> The following should be left alone: \chaplink, \seclink, \label, \ref, \pageref, \nameref.
<godbyk> Also, leave \gls, \glspl, \Gls, \Glspl alone.
<c7p> that helps a lot
<c7p> cya
<dutchie> godbyk: you can fire up the CNAME for planet.ubuntu-manual.org
<dutchie> but I'm going to bed as I've got a big day tomorrow
<godbyk> I did earlier.  I'm not sure if it's propagated yet, though.
<dutchie> A national rowing competition and exam results
<dutchie> followed by a school concert
<godbyk> dutchie: http://planet.ubuntu-manual.org/
<dutchie> fml ;)
<godbyk> Looks like it's working.
<godbyk> :)
<godbyk> Yikes!  Big day!
 * dutchie remembers to reload apache config
<godbyk> (You'll want to config apache to point that domain to the right virtual host.)
<godbyk> Also, we can move the code for the site over to my host if you want.  (Makes no difference to me.)
<dutchie> not really bothered
<dutchie> don't think it's worth it really
<dutchie> night then
<godbyk> sounds good.
<godbyk> g'night!
<godbyk> I've updated http://kevin.godby.org/ubuntu-manual/talks/latex.handout.pdf to include notes for translators: what to translate and what not to translate (see chapter 4).
#ubuntu-manual 2010-03-11
<ferry> EXIT
<ferry> exit
<humphreybc> hi everyone!
<godbyk> hey, humphreybc.
<humphreybc> ello
<godbyk> Welcome back.  Have fun discussing Ubuntu stuff today? :)
<humphreybc> godbyk, oh yes... did you see the stuff on omgubuntu?
<humphreybc> had a phone call with jono
<godbyk> yeah, I saw that.
<humphreybc> big discussion :)
<godbyk> have a nice chat with jono? :)
<humphreybc> yep, our chats are always nice!
<godbyk> I enjoyed the sparring in the omgubuntu comments.
<humphreybc> He believes that most people are against the button placement only due to the fact their scared of change
<humphreybc> they're*
<godbyk> I think that's probably true.
<humphreybc> I tried to explain some actual reasons why having them on the left is a usability problem
<godbyk> Though I wouldn't say they're "scared" of change.
<godbyk> People just don't like change in general.
<humphreybc> just resistant to it
<godbyk> right
<humphreybc> So have you got an opinion, as a PhD student in HCI?
<humphreybc> If you do, I think you should write your thoughts up somewhere so the design team can see it
<godbyk> I don't have a well-formed opinion yet.  So far I've only seen screenshots, I haven't had a chance to try it out.
<humphreybc> righto
<godbyk> I msg'd mpt on irc earlier, but he went offline shortly afterward. I think I hit him up just as he was getting off work.
<godbyk> I'd like to hear from the design team what their thoughts on it are.
<godbyk> Is it just a visual change?
<humphreybc> not sure
<humphreybc> I'm trying to find out the same
<godbyk> Are there usability problems they're trying to solve?
<humphreybc> there's this: http://www.ivankamajic.com/?p=281
<godbyk> Do they think having the controls on the left is an improvement in some way?
<humphreybc> But Ivanka doesn't really tell us much
<godbyk> That blog post doesn't really say anything.
<godbyk> It asks a lot of great questions...
<humphreybc> If they could be clearer with their reasons for the switch, then I think it would be a bit more useful
<godbyk> ... but provides no answers.
<humphreybc> Yeah I know, but I'm emailing the design team as we speak
<humphreybc> :)
<godbyk> You should CC me on it. I'd like to hear about it, too. :)
<humphreybc> sure
<humphreybc> I need to find Ivanka's email though
<humphreybc> or the Canonical design team mailing list
<godbyk> https://launchpad.net/~canonical-ux
<humphreybc> oh
<humphreybc> banshee, why have you crashed
<humphreybc> no mailing list though
<humphreybc> probably because they all work in an office
<godbyk> They have an internal (private) mailing list.
<humphreybc> yah
<humphreybc> the feedback on my article on omgubuntu was nice
<humphreybc> lots of people think it's a good article :)
<godbyk> Yeah, it looked like it was well-received.
<kklimonda> humphreybc: what article?
<kklimonda> there was this one I didn't like yesterday ;}
<humphreybc> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/03/16-things-that-could-be-improved-in.html
<kklimonda> humphreybc: right - I was going to give the author "Captain Obvious" award for some of those things ;)
<humphreybc> haha
<humphreybc> :P
<humphreybc> they're not obvious to most people until you spell them out
 * humphreybc is typing one hand due to ice cream consumption
<godbyk> So how can we make it super easy for newbies to contribute to the manual?
<humphreybc> 1) step by step guide
<humphreybc> wait, what timeframe are we thinking here?
<humphreybc> long term planning or get people in now?
<godbyk> For instance, when we open it up to omgubuntu readers, how can they contribute without jumping through two dozen hoops?
<humphreybc> ok
<godbyk> we can't have everyone editing the branch at once.  that'll cause too many conflicts.
<humphreybc> so they are mainly going to be bug testing?
<godbyk> but having one bug report per misspelled word may be too much, too.
<humphreybc> indeed
<humphreybc> we need to set up a clear bug reporting guide, and make sure they give us the correct information in the bugs
<humphreybc> but to get contributors into the project _now_ we'll need a step by step guide
<humphreybc> can we simplify anything?
<humphreybc> ie, latex install? SSH key? adding them to the team? most of this is as simple as possible
<godbyk> I haven't looked at the wiki lately, but it was a bit scatterbrained.
<godbyk> Is all of that in one place, though?
<humphreybc> probably not
<humphreybc> the wiki needs a big overhaul
<godbyk> Is there a Getting Started page that provides step-by-step instructions for doing all that?
<humphreybc> i've been meaning to plan it before i overhaul it though
<humphreybc> no there isn't
<humphreybc> so, what's the first thing we want new contributors to see when they visit our wiki?
<godbyk> I'd say a description of our project, status report (how close are we to being done, and where they can download the latest release candidate), and how they can help.
<humphreybc> well the progress bar is a pretty simple status report
<humphreybc> so the how they can help section, does that have the step-by-step instructions right there?
<humphreybc> or does it link to another page with the detailed instructions?
 * humphreybc is thinking aloud
<humphreybc> we need an etherpad for drawing...
<humphreybc> so we can do a cool diagram of the page layouts :)
<godbyk> I'd say that the how-I-can-help section has a list of tasks they can pick up.
<humphreybc> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UMPsimplification
<godbyk> each task links to the step-by-step instructions to start that task
<humphreybc> okay
<humphreybc> that sounds like a plan
<humphreybc> I'm writing it up on the etherpad, care to join me?
<godbyk> sure. link me!
<humphreybc> above!
<humphreybc> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UMPsimplification
<humphreybc> we also need to simplify the header
<humphreybc> at the moment it's huge
<humphreybc> like, an overwhelming amount of options
<humphreybc> 10, in fact
<godbyk> And make the logo a bit smaller. :)
<humphreybc> yup :)
<humphreybc> okay, help me out in the etherpad
<komsas> hi godbyk, when I making pdf I get error http://paste.ubuntu.com/393141/
<godbyk> You have \menuite and it should be \menuitem
<godbyk> (Though it *really* should be \menu)
<daker> hi
<komsas> oh, so it is problem in translation, going to change it.
<godbyk> hey, daker.
 * humphreybc nom nom, peanut M&Ms
<godbyk> first ice cream and now peanut M&Ms?
<humphreybc> yes
<humphreybc> i had a cheeseburger before
<humphreybc> it IS 10:30pm
<godbyk> 3:30 am here.  I'm headed to bed.
<godbyk> See ya!
<humphreybc> chow!
 * humphreybc is so getting one of these for UDS: http://www.zazzle.co.nz/blamepopey_shirt-235522597143235165
<daker> i want ti create a new brach for the website
<humphreybc> go for it :)
<humphreybc> you could just create a new folder in the main branch called "dakar"
<humphreybc> "daker"* sorry
<daker> but my folder is in /var/www
<humphreybc> huh?
<humphreybc> you want to branch our website?
<humphreybc> so you can work on it?
<daker> yeah
<humphreybc> just create a new folder under /website in the branch
<humphreybc> and copy what you've got there
<humphreybc> or you can branch our branch if you want
<humphreybc> entirely up to you dude :)
 * humphreybc the Ubuntu Manual progress bar is going to look very l33t soon
<MenZa> Does anyone have a recently-compiled PDF of the manual they'd be willing to share?
<MenZa> Oh nevermind, it's on Launchpad. <_<
<MenZa> godbyk: Massive kudos to you for your LaTeX skills. o_o
<c7p> hello godbyk are you on?
<godbyk> MenZa: You can see the latest builds of all the translations at http://ubuntu-manual.org/builds/
<godbyk> It gets updated whenever I happen to remember to run a script.  (So it's not always *the* latest, but it should be relatively close.)
<MenZa> godbyk: \o/
<ubuntujenkins> eveing all
<godbyk> hey, ubuntujenkins .
<ubuntujenkins> hey godbyk how are you?
<godbyk> not too bad. pretty well-rested. :)
 * godbyk slept in today.
<MenZa> godbyk: Without having looked at the latex source at all (I'm on a Windows, tex-less system currently), have you written a class from scratch, or are you using, say, memoir with a bunch of custom macros?
<godbyk> MenZa: Currently we're using a custom class based on book, but I might base it on tufte-book instead.  (Haven't decided yet.)
<godbyk> Using tufte-book helps me kill two birds with one stone as I wrote the tufte-book class and it'll give us some of the features we want for free.
<godbyk> (That is, the features already coded up in the tufte-book class, so I wouldn't have to copy/paste anything.)
<MenZa> godbyk: Ah. I'm not familiar with tufte-book. What's special about it?
<MenZa> I've been working with LaTeX for around four years now, but the most major hackery I've done is with \titlingpage in memoir :)
<godbyk> Not too much, but it does a lot of work to put things in the margin (sidenotes).
<godbyk> http://code.google.com/p/tufte-latex/
<MenZa> Yeah, I've missed that when working with it
 * ubuntujenkins 41 screenshots in the manual so far
<ubuntujenkins> night all
#ubuntu-manual 2010-03-12
<godbyk> Hey, humphreybc
<humphreybc> hey godbyk
<humphreybc> i'm just checking in real quick today, have a BBQ to go to and then work tonight
<godbyk> fun
<humphreybc> although it is pouring down with rain
<humphreybc> and i'd have to walk in the rain for a good 20 mins
<godbyk> did you want me to go ahead and start mucking about with the wiki or wait for others to weigh in on things?
<humphreybc> yeah you can start mucking around with it :)
<godbyk> that doesn't sound like much fun.
<godbyk> k
<humphreybc> so i may not go to the bbq
<humphreybc> but that means i have to find something to eat instead
<godbyk> pizza delivery. :)
<humphreybc> okay now it's really hosing down
<godbyk> yeah, if I were you, I'd call and cancel and work on updating the wiki. ;-)
<humphreybc> haha
<humphreybc> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_manual
 * humphreybc wonders when he'll get a wikipedia page :P
<humphreybc> anyone know how to add images to a wikipedia article?
<humphreybc> or that side pane thing?
<godbyk> I went through all our .tex files and make a bunch of minor edits. Just things like replacing quotation marks with their proper LaTeX forms, replacing obsolete commands with their new versions, replacing --- with \dash, etc.
<godbyk> So my question is, how many people will I cause trouble for if I commit these changes?
<godbyk> Should I instead just email the list and have the authors handle this in their own chapters?
<humphreybc> cool
<humphreybc> nah just push it, it'll be okay
<humphreybc> if you're just changing the commands then it should be okay
<godbyk> 'kay.
<godbyk> okay, pushed.
<godbyk> let the screams of anguish begin!
<humphreybc> haha
<jaminday> godbyk: you still around?
<thorwil> good morning!
<jaminday> mornin' thorwil
<humphreybc> what's new everyone?
<dutchie> http://www.michaels-website.de/gedit-latex-plugin/
<ubuntujenkins> dutchie have you tried it? I am about to install it.
<dutchie> trying it now out of svn
<dutchie> <-- hardcore vim user though
<ubuntujenkins> I am trying it from a .tar
<ubuntujenkins> do you know what it means when it says select a master?
<dutchie> nope
<dutchie> seems to work OK
<ubuntujenkins> I have enabled it and guessed which was the master file I will see how it goes
<dutchie> didn't ask me anything about master files
<ubuntujenkins> every time I open gedit is says choose the master file, then you can brows your documents
<dutchie> It has now I opened all of the *.tex files
<ubuntujenkins> any ideas what file it is asking for?
<dutchie> main.tex seems a reasonable suggestion
<ubuntujenkins> makes sense :-)
<dutchie> do you have all the compile options greyed out?
<dutchie> in the Tools menu
<ubuntujenkins> yes
<dutchie> this is not good
<ubuntujenkins> maybe main.tex isn't right?
 * dutchie concludes that this is a massive faff on Karmic 
<dutchie> Lucid time!
<ubuntujenkins> one step ahead of you
<dutchie> it's on my netbook
<dutchie> now what did I do with that USB stick?
<ubuntujenkins> dutchie you need rubber installed to be able to use the compile options
<dutchie> to install rubber, the latex packages need installing
<ubuntujenkins> yep
<dutchie> the latex packages in karmic are not up-to-date enough
<ubuntujenkins> r i see I am going to try in lucid
<thorwil> godbyk, vish: i'm really tempted to just replace https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/Header?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=banner.png with http://www.foopics.com/showfull/d1a52f177732321ed646c1d5d98f87f1
<vish> thorwil: oh thats what that was for..
<vish> thorwil: how about adding a history wikipedia section for manual design ;) > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_manual
<thorwil> oh boy
<vish> "Earlier designs were a farce ,  thorwil took up the recent task of bearing the burden for the new design as the design lead " ;p
<godbyk> vish: lol.. love it!
<vish> and the whole world fell in line
<godbyk> looks like the wikipedia page is up for deletion, though.
<vish> yeah , i thought so the min it was edited..
<vish> a sad example of how wikipedia is abused :(
<godbyk> I'll be back in a few minutes.  I need to finish composing this email about the window controls placement.
<thorwil> vish: i'll turn to you for my biography, then ;p
<vish> ;)
<thorwil> there really haven't been enough mails and posts about that
<thorwil> Ivanka must feel very lonely, like talking in an echo chamber
 * dutchie wonders how well the http://planet.ubuntu-manual.org/ switch has been publicised
<thorwil> dutchie: what switch?
<dutchie> from planet.interesting.co.nz to our domain
<godbyk> okay, email sent.
<godbyk> I don't think it's been advertised, really.
<godbyk> thorwil: yeah, I was just replying to Ivanka's email to the Ayatana list.
<godbyk> The biggest frustration I see from people stems from the fact that no reasons/rationale were provided.
<thorwil> godbyk: the communication strategy or lack thereof is really strange
<godbyk> I was writing primarily to mention the Hicks-Hyman law as opposed to Fitts' law.
<godbyk> thorwil: that's certainly what I find most frustrating.  I like usability stuff, so if they're trying to solve a specific problem, I'd love to hear about it.
<thorwil> godbyk: can't be long until someone explains the weather with fitts' layw
<godbyk> thorwil: lol, no doubt.
<godbyk> They must teach it in elementary design classes or something.
<thorwil> godbyk: i think demonstrating design menthods and thinking should be part of their job
<thorwil> arg, kunt spell tonite
<godbyk> thorwil: I'd love to see more usability-related talk from them in general.  More promotion of new specs they're writing, tests they're running, test results, etc.
 * vish just feels this is a NIH syndrome by the UX :s and they are trying to re-invent the wheel without know what problem they are trying to solve
<vish> knowing*
<thorwil> godbyk: the new highlight is that the countdown banner competition has been announced, but we still don't have SVGs of the new logo-type (the design team is waiting, too, i have been told)
<godbyk> thorwil: brilliant!
<godbyk> Here's what I posted, for those interested: https://lists.launchpad.net/ayatana/msg01002.html
<thorwil> godbyk: regarding GOMS and the mouse being slow per se, Tog thinks differently
<godbyk> thorwil: I know. :)
 * dutchie is subscribed :)
<thorwil> godbyk: the problem is she should know ... ;)
<godbyk> thorwil: heh, fair enough.
<godbyk> Is she a UX person or a graphic designer? What's her background?
<thorwil> http://vimeo.com/4290782
<thorwil> godbyk: i think she talks about here background in that video
<thorwil> electronic engineering -> software development / websites -> hci
<godbyk> thorwil: yeah, I'm watching the video now. :)
<thorwil> godbyk: excellent mail. good thing the ayatana list hasn't been flooded with mostly crap like her blog
<godbyk> yeah, I kind of hope the ayatana list can stay small, so we can continue to have nice, sensible discussions there.
<Ell> godbyk: do you still need an editor to help out for the index for the manual?
<godbyk> Ell: yes, please!
<godbyk> I haven't written a tutorial about the index commands yet.
<godbyk> But if you want to jump in, start flipping through the manual and see what kinds of things should be indexed.
<godbyk> At the moment, we're indexing application names, for instance.
<godbyk> Are there other classes of things that should be indexed?
<godbyk> We'll also be able to index any random thing we like, but we should be careful to ensure the index is usable and not cluttered up with things the reader isn't looking for.
<Ell> okay I will look into it cheers
<godbyk> Ell: thanks!  feel free to hit me up here or at kevin@ubuntu-manual.org if you have questions.
<godbyk> thorwil: ha!  "The other big thing that we have to do as the design team within Canonical is make sure we communicate well with the community---share our data, put it out there."
<thorwil> :)
#ubuntu-manual 2010-03-13
<humphreybc> who's here at the moment?
 * dutchie is leaving pretty soon
<humphreybc> dutchie, http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/umlogo.png
<dutchie> ooh, pretty
<humphreybc> thorsten and I have been working on the logo
<dutchie> (though I'll say that about more or less anything)
<humphreybc> lol
 * humphreybc regrets spamming the connect to server thing, now is getting lots of errors because it can't connect, due to the fact it is already connected. yay.
<godbyk> I'm around.
<humphreybc> have a look at the logo above, tell me your thoughts
<godbyk> humphreybc: tell me about it.  what're you aiming for?
<humphreybc> not sure. thorwil came up with the idea :P
<humphreybc> godbyk, i'm chatting with mpt
<humphreybc> i suggested to him that he has a chat with you
<godbyk> cool
<godbyk> I emailed the Ayatana list earlier, are you subscribed there?
<humphreybc> nein
<godbyk> humphreybc: Here's what I posted earlier: https://lists.launchpad.net/ayatana/msg01002.html
<thorwil> godbyk: what do you think of http://thorwil.wordpress.com/2010/03/12/fitts-law-misunderstood/#comment-2701 ?
<thorwil> humphreybc: hi! removing 2 of the 3 arms would destroy the concept of material coming from several sources. not to forget the symmetry with the CoF
<thorwil> humphreybc: so how about http://www.foopics.com/showfull/16ee689c2cd04c2b9ecd7d116d12c354 ?
<thorwil> anyone knows a term for that symmetry based on 3?
<humphreybc> thorwil, I came up with this: http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/umlogo.png
<humphreybc> based on what you had
<humphreybc> i don't think it looks too bad
<humphreybc> that one you linked to (http://www.foopics.com/showfull/16ee689c2cd04c2b9ecd7d116d12c354) is an improvement
<humphreybc> i'm still not a huge fan of the three arms thing. the concept is good, but i think we can say the same thing with only one arm than we can with three
<humphreybc> as the for the symmetry, with the text on the right and the arm to the left of the logo, i think it balances okay
<humphreybc> godbyk, you there?
<humphreybc> godbyk, we got back from the pub, NZ won the cricket which was good. and then we proceeded to play imaginary scrabble, ie, with imaginary words instead of real words. good times!
<thorwil> humphreybc: no, we cannot say the same thing with only one arm
<humphreybc> hrm
<humphreybc> i just think the three arm thing looks too aggressive/sharp
<humphreybc> sort of like a flying dart that's going to hit you in the eye
<humphreybc> or a ninja's throwing start
<humphreybc> star*
<humphreybc> that's what I see when I look at the three arm one, a ninja throwing star that's going to hit me in the face
<humphreybc> :)
<humphreybc> we want to give the message that we're really cool, and really easy to get involved with
<thorwil> then i have to try a different arrangement
<humphreybc> sure. the different sources thing is awesome, because it's definitely what we do - we're a bunch of people coming together to create quality documentation for the ubuntu user base
<humphreybc> and we want to collaborate with the docs team, the learning project and canonical in the future
<thorwil> humphreybc: http://www.foopics.com/showfull/c5dde7f67169d9f7ee00790933c6ecfe
<humphreybc> that's better. although now I must admit it looks a bit like some sort of computer bus or IDE plug
<humphreybc> :P
<humphreybc> is there some way we could incorporate an education aspect to the logo?
<humphreybc> the community learning project use a graduation hat: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=branding-large.png
<thorwil> while this is not meant to be audience-facing, i doubt anyone wants to feel like a schoolar in this context. there's that sense of hierarchy
<humphreybc> true
<humphreybc> i just feel that if we're designing a logo it should encapsulate everything that we are about, and that is mainly education, collaboration and ease of contribution
<thorwil> humphreybc: encapsulating everything is how you end up with piles of stuff that don't work on small scale
<humphreybc> true
<thorwil> humphreybc: http://www.foopics.com/showfull/dbd0b0d25701a354b8f7e04cef6b31b6
<humphreybc> well, i'll keep thinking about it some more. ask the others for feedback too :)
<humphreybc> would it look better if the smaller pages were overlapping one another like they were before, but in that arrangement?
<humphreybc> how do I know that's an educational document by looking at it?
<humphreybc> how does that look on a small scale?
<thorwil> no point in going smaller than that
<humphreybc> we would have to for launchpad though
<humphreybc> i think they have like 16x16 or 14x14 icon sizes for some things
<humphreybc> not that it's particularly important
<humphreybc> http://www.artistsvalley.com/images/icons/Professional%20Vista%20Software%20Icons/Book%20Help%20Manual/256x256/Book%20Help%20Manual.jpg
<humphreybc> have a look at some of these for inspiration: http://www.luckyicon.com/pictures/webasyst/webasyst-all-icons.png
<humphreybc> some of these too? http://www.visual-blast.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/free_project_icon_set.jpg
<humphreybc> you've got the right idea though, and i do appreciate all the work you're doing on this, it's awesome :D
<humphreybc> in fact I think everyone on the team owes Thorsten a big ka pai :)
<humphreybc> sleep time for me, night all :)
<godbyk> thorwil: His argument has some merit.  I've emailed you a paper that discusses an error model derived from Fitts' law.
<godbyk> thorwil: I've also been paying attention to my mousing lately, and I notice that when I move to hit the close button or the file menu, I often throw the mouse pointer in the general direction, overshoot, and then slow down to acquire the target.
<godbyk> I don't know how widespread that behavior is, though.
<thorwil> godbyk: awesom, thanks
<godbyk> thorwil: no problem.
<thorwil> vish: how should i describe the role you had regarding the icons on the title page?
<godbyk> thorwil: re: the ubuntu manual logo, I like the first one best.  it looks like the pages are coming from different places instead of multiple streams from one source.
<godbyk> though it looks like the final result is just a stack of papers.  I think a better final result would be a book.
<vish> thorwil: "insignificant" ;)
<thorwil> godbyk: Ben thinks it looks aggressive, reminds him of a shuriken
 * godbyk looks again.
<thorwil> vish: heh. i just have to give you credit
<godbyk> I don't get the shuriken thing.. doesn't look like that to me.
<thorwil> godbyk: maybe he had more exposure to ninjas? though why he would still be breathing then?
<godbyk> though it might be better of the pages swooped in more, instead of the linear thing you have now.  looks almost like one big page on a tripod of other pages.
<godbyk> Well, he did find my ninja pic last night: http://kevin.godby.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/ninjas.png
<godbyk> maybe that scared him. :-)
<thorwil> godbyk: tried that. just not enough room to do that, as the pages have to stick out enough in 2 directions
<godbyk> bummer.
<thorwil> godbyk: now i'm scared too!!
<godbyk> As you should be!
<godbyk> (The things I do for class projects!)
 * vish somehow finds the logo not really conveying the meaning of "collaboration" 
<vish> , seems more like library or the matrix ;p
 * thorwil makes agent smith spawn right next to vish 
<vish> ha , thorwil didnt know vish was agent smith ;p
<thorwil> ha, vish didn't know he was only thinking to be agent smith
<vish> we are all in the matrix , man .. <hippie moan>
 * thorwil wants a blog with several-files-at-once upload
<godbyk> thorwil: wordpress lets you.
<thorwil> then i'm doing it wrong
<komsas> hi godbyk, I found that after compiling lithuanian pdf, not all translations got to pdf. Can you help me to find problem?
<godbyk> komsas: I can try.
<komsas> How I can help?
<godbyk> Which translations are missing?
<komsas> "Shuî¼leworth set out with clear intentions to address these weaknesses and create a system ... "
<thorwil> so it's the flash based uploader thats upports multiple files, the plain one doesn't
<godbyk> komsas: It may be because I changed the quotation marks from " to `` and '' in that paragraph a while back.
<godbyk> And there hasn't been an updated pot file generated since then.
<godbyk> So po4a can't match up the the string in the po file with the string in the .tex file.
<godbyk> (But that's just a guess.)
<godbyk> thorwil: yeah, that sounds right.
<komsas> godbyk: what \gls and similar tags do?
<godbyk> komsas: \gls is a glossary tag.
<ubuntujenkins> evening all
<godbyk> It looks up the label in the frontmatter/glossary-entries.tex file, prints that word, and links it to the glossary entry at the end of the manual.
<godbyk> hey, ubuntujenkins.
<ubuntujenkins> hey godbyk
<godbyk> komsas: The \gls command shouldn't be translated (but you can move it around in the sentence if you need to). Instead, translate the corresponding \newglossaryentry command.
<komsas> godbyk: thanks now it more clear.
<godbyk> komsas: no problem. in the \newglossaryentry command, for lithuanian, you may also need to provide a plural={plural-form} bit (assuming the plurals of words in lithuanian aren't generated by appending 's' to the singular form).
<godbyk> thorwil: re: cover page designs. I'm not a fan of the dots.  the arcs and color fill look nice, though they may not be good for printing (uses a lot of ink/toner)
<godbyk> thorwil: on the bold vs. regular font issue, I think I like the non-bold version a bit better.
<godbyk> (comparing A and B there)
<godbyk> comparing C, D, an E, I like the matching color of E better than the purple-orange combo of C, and the two-tone combo of D
<thorwil> godbyk: noted. would be good to have that in a comment or on the list, though ;)
<godbyk> aw, man! you're gonna make me write it all again? :)
<thorwil> heh
<thorwil> some words on composition would be nice, too
<godbyk> Yeah, I just hadn't got there yet. :)
<godbyk> I'll take a look at them all and jot down some notes and compose a bit more structured email about it.
<thorwil> cool, ty
<godbyk> Speaking of composition, what design elements need to be fixed in the interior of the manual?
<godbyk> I have a list here, but want to make sure I'm not missing anything.
 * thorwil needs to update
<godbyk> I should print a copy of the manual and flip through it now that there's a lot more content.
<godbyk> See if there are common elements that need to be flagged that weren't there the first time I went through it.
<thorwil> uh, you squashing A4 to letter on the title page?
<komsas> godbyk: it is difficult to change sentence sequence of words and numbers from gloss-lithuania.ldf. It is the chapter and the part words. I found that in lithuanian we write firstly number then one of these words. Like II chapter or 2 part. If you can make it then these words must begin in lower case.
<thorwil> godbyk: toc, gap between titles and page number seems excessive
<godbyk> heh.. yeah, that's just 'til we decide on a title page.  :)
<thorwil> godbyk: and i wonder if that counting scheme with roman numerals is really appropriate
<thorwil> godbyk: we should perhaps not use the same color for links and titles
<godbyk> komsas: I can do that.  How would you translate: "Chapter 1: Installation"  and "Part I: Getting Started"?
<godbyk> thorwil: What's the roman numeral counting scheme refer to?
<komsas> you want that I write it in lithuanian?
<thorwil> godbyk: numbering for Prologue
<godbyk> thorwil: Different colors for section headings and the links?  Also, should the web links be a different color than the internal cross-ref links?
<godbyk> komsas: yes.  that way I can see what order to put the number and words in.
<thorwil> godbyk: i'd rather use a symbol to mark either kind of links
<godbyk> thorwil: fair enough. we can pore over the symbols list and find some good ones to use.
<thorwil> godbyk: no wait, as long as internal links can be clearly recognised by having http...
<godbyk> thorwil: I think there are some external links that aren't listed by url.  I'll look to be sure.
<komsas> "1 skyrius: Ä®diegimas" and "I dalis: PradÅ¾ia"
<thorwil> godbyk: Ubuntu philosophy has âUbuntuâ <- quotation marks ... we gonna use italic, right?
<thorwil> godbyk: lists don't need spacing between list items, thanks to bullets and indentation
<godbyk> komsas: thanks!  I'll get that fixed today.  the skyrius and dalis should be lowercase, correct?  also, are roman numbers (I, II, III, IV, etc.) okay for the part numbers?
<komsas> godbyk: yes, roman numbers are okey ;) Thank you !
<thorwil> godbyk: i wonder if the Part 1/2 structure really needs to be exposed. does it help the reader?
<thorwil> heh, the annotations are awesome
<thorwil> godbyk: what's the state of the margins?
<godbyk> thorwil: You mean actually stating 'Part I' and 'Part II' on the part pages?  yeah, I'm probably going to remove that or make it less blatant.  I'd also like to spice up those pages by incorporating some design elements from the title page (if it works well)
<godbyk> what annotations?
<thorwil> orange balloons
<godbyk> the margins.. ugh.. every time I sit down to work on them I get distracted. :(  but I need to just set them and be done with it.
<godbyk> aha.. yeah, they're fun.
<thorwil> godbyk: getting rid of stating part 1/2 would be improvement, but i meant there prsence in the toc and having pages at all
<godbyk> oh, gotcha.  I dunno.  I don't really care one way or another.  that's just how it was set up when I showed up.
<godbyk> I don't think they're necessary since there's only two of them.
<godbyk> and they're not delineating subjects, per se, just 'beginner's stuff' and 'slightly more advanced stuff'.
<thorwil> godbyk: the smallest titles could have no margin-bottom, if the are in body size, and the following paragraph has first line indent
<godbyk> but it doesn't help the reader much.
<thorwil> godbyk: that's my point :)
<thorwil> it feels like it was meant for something larger than we actually deal with
<thorwil> godbyk: body text lines are slightly on the long side
<godbyk> I'll remove the parts and we'll see how it goes.
<godbyk> Do you think the sidenotes area should be wider?
<thorwil> godbyk: it doesn't need it. not with that text size, at least. it's just that the body text could be faster to read with slightly shorter lines
<godbyk> I understand.
<godbyk> I'm just flipping through the manual and it looks like the side notes are getting used more frequently than I anticipated.
<godbyk> I want to make sure they all fit on the page. :)
<godbyk> one thing I could try for the margins/page layout is to split the page into three columns.  then combine the first two columns (and their shared gutter) to form the main text body.  the remaining third column would be the side notes area.
<thorwil> godbyk: if you don't do anything else with section numbers (e.g. 3 Working with Ubuntu), you should probably use capital, not text figures there
 * godbyk wishes XeLaTeX supported the microtype package.
<komsas> godbyk: silly question, but there need the space before \dash tag, like word\dash or word \dash. In some sentences there are space in some not.
<thorwil> godbyk: anyway, rock on, i have to go!
<godbyk> agreed.  did we ever figure out if we're doing anything with icons per chapter or a fancier chapter heading?
<godbyk> komsas: The space before the \dash command isn't necessary.  If there is a space, the \dash command attempts to remove it.  (so it's better without the space, as \dash will add its own space.)
<godbyk> komsas: you *do* need a space *after* the \dash command, though.
<thorwil> godbyk: no icons, as i just don't think i can do non-silly ones for all cases
 * komsas noted
<ubuntujenkins> nn o/
<godbyk> Hey, jaminday.  You pinged me the other day when I wasn't around.  I don't remember if I ever got back to you on whatever it was. Do you?
#ubuntu-manual 2010-03-14
<jaminday> godbyk: hey - yeah I think I had a latex question for you but can't remember what it was now
<jaminday> i must have sorted it out
<godbyk> fair enough. :)
<jaminday> thanks though!
<jaminday> While you're here, do you know if references to Canonical need any legal qualifiers
<jaminday> like inc or TM or anything like that?
<godbyk> jaminday: I think we decided we didn't need any of that.
<godbyk> In the US, at least, they're not required as long as you're referring to the actual trademark.
<godbyk> And in some other countries, it's actually illegal to include them if they're not registered in that country.
<godbyk> So it seems like the safe thing to do is to leave them out.
<godbyk> Plus, they look ugly. :)
<jaminday> Ah ok, yeah I must have missed that discussion.
<jaminday> hehe
<jaminday> no worries just thought i'd better check!
<jaminday> Another legal thing - Benjamin references Facebook and Google as examples of websites that run unix-based servers. This is definitely true, yes?
<popey> http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Do_Facebook's_servers_run_on_Linux
<godbyk> I know Google uses Linux, too.
<jaminday> ok cool thanks guys
<jaminday> humphreybc: heya
<humphreybc> hey jaminday
<humphreybc> did you see the top-secret future planning page?
<jaminday> yeah, it's looking good
<jaminday> haven't had any brilliant thoughts to add yet
<humphreybc> okay
<jaminday> i think you've covered it pretty well so far!
<humphreybc> remember it's top secret :P
<jaminday> hehe
<jaminday> my keyboard is sealed
<humphreybc> :P
<jaminday> i've just spent the last couple of hours re-editing the prologue
<jaminday> just to streamline, reduce the verbosity
<humphreybc> awesome!
<humphreybc> i'm going to start re-doing the wiki
<humphreybc> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UMPsimplification
<jaminday> i'm about to upload so was gonna get you to take a look
<humphreybc> sure thing
<jaminday> ah cool - great idea about simplifying the wiki
<jaminday> it could really use it
<humphreybc> indeed
<jaminday> humphreybc: hey just uploaded changes to prologue now. Can you have a read when you get the chance and check whether it's ok - happy to revert any changes that you think need it.
<humphreybc> sure thing
<jaminday> i'm off to lunch for a break!
<humphreybc> kk
<humphreybc> hey, godbyk, you there?
<godbyk> humphreybc: yep
<humphreybc> two things - could you change the manual back to everything left aligned (ie, not book format) unless you're testing stuff, and could you also increase the gap between paragraphs by a bit?
<godbyk> yes, and not unless you give me a really, really good reason. :)
<humphreybc> I don't have one :P
<humphreybc> but the paragraph spacing needs to be bigger
<godbyk> why?
<humphreybc> it looks odd with the indentation but with no spacing
<godbyk> ?!
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> just try it with one line spacing, and we'll see how it looks
<godbyk> when marking paragraphs, you either indent, or you add line spacing, never both at the same time.
<humphreybc> well, remove the indentation and we'll see what it looks like with spacing?
<humphreybc> :)
<godbyk> humphreybc: http://kevin.godby.org/private/ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual-parskip.pdf
<humphreybc> apart from the contents, that does look nicer
<humphreybc> and the section headers/itemized lists and stuff are all screwed up
<humphreybc> but the paragraphs look good
<godbyk> well, the contents and some other things are using the \parindent value (which I've just set to 0pt), so that'll be a bit funky.
<humphreybc> yu
<humphreybc> yup
<humphreybc> but yeah it looks better with spacing instead of indentation
<humphreybc> in my opinion :)
<humphreybc> if you can convince me why we should use indentation, then we'll do that
<godbyk> I'm not that picky about it at the moment.  We'll see what I think after I've fixed up some other things.
<humphreybc> cool
<godbyk> You're just not allowed to both indent and space. :)
<humphreybc> okay
<humphreybc> well spacing > indentation
<humphreybc> have you had some time to play around with those 800x600 shots?
<godbyk> It increases the number of pages in the manual, too.
<humphreybc> it does
<godbyk> Not yet, but I'm going to soon.
<humphreybc> cool
<godbyk> We should start taking the screenshots for the English version -- even if they're just temporary.
<humphreybc> we may have to put the manual on a diet
<godbyk> That way we can see how big the PDF is getting and how many pages it takes.
<humphreybc> yeah, well if the goddamn UX team decides what theme they want it would help a lot
<humphreybc> have we got a finalized list of screenshots with decent descriptions?
<humphreybc> oh yeah it's not too ad
<humphreybc> bad*
<godbyk> Not yet. But it'd be good to test with what we've got.
<humphreybc> kk
<godbyk> That'll help us work out the bugs before we try to handle the thousands of screenshots we'll have in the end. :)
<humphreybc> well i'll set it all up and then we can tell everyone else
<godbyk> k
<godbyk> how's quickshot coming along?  will we be able to use it for 10.04?
<humphreybc> Red_HamsterX: how's quickshot coming along?
<Red_HamsterX> This week was quite hectic. I've got window and fullscreen support working fine, with automated cropping, but I haven't had time to sit down and work out the best way to properly hide bzr from the client yet.
<humphreybc> sounds good :)
<humphreybc> do you think it'll be usable in time for 10.04?
<Red_HamsterX> I still believe it will be usable, yes. I can hack something into place if time starts to seem tight, just to get the backend working.
<Red_HamsterX> I'm not sure how the frontend is coming along, though.
<Red_HamsterX> I didn't notice any commits this week.
<humphreybc> okay :)
<humphreybc> appreciate the work
<godbyk> humphreybc: do you want to work on the wiki stuff tonight?
<humphreybc> yeah i will do
<humphreybc> getting there :P
<godbyk> 'kay. gimme a holler if you want help.
<humphreybc> heh
<humphreybc> my efficiency has taken a nosedive this past week
<humphreybc> i've hardly got anything done and it's really bad
<godbyk> same here.
<godbyk> I think I just kinda ran out of steam.
<godbyk> I'm trying to slog through the redesign stuff this weekend so it's done and out of the way.
<humphreybc> yeah, i know how you feel
<jaminday> humphreybc: you get a chance to look at the changes to prologue?
<humphreybc> jaminday: i had a skim read but have yet to have a proper look
<humphreybc> i'm having a very lazy sunday
<humphreybc> lol
<jaminday> hehe
<jaminday> yeah no worries
<jaminday> just let me know if you find any issues whenever you get around to it
<humphreybc> sure
<humphreybc> i'm planning on having a shower soon and then actually cracking into some work
<humphreybc> because right now i am probably the most inefficient and unproductive member of the UMP team :P
<jaminday> hehe yeah everyone's entitled to a little slacking off now and then! I just made banana butterscotch pudding so that will keep me going for a while
<humphreybc> nic!
<humphreybc> nice*
<humphreybc> do you bake?
<jaminday> nope!
<jaminday> i just really wanted to eat it, so my wife said if i want it, then i can make it
<jaminday> hehe
<humphreybc> hahaha
<humphreybc> i can make a killer banana cake
<jaminday> ooh nice
<humphreybc> and pretty good fudge too
<jaminday> mmm you are making me hungry... only 30 mins to go and i can get stuck into my pudding!
<humphreybc> lol
 * godbyk wonders if banana cake is the same as banana bread.
<humphreybc> sort of
<godbyk> humphreybc: how attached are you to the part 1 and part 2 bits? Can we just leave out the parts?  (so we only have chapter headings)
<humphreybc> huh?
<godbyk> can I kill \part{Getting Started} and \part{Advanced topics}?
<godbyk> it'll remove the TOC entries and the Part I: Getting Started and Part II: Advanced topics pages.
<godbyk> I don't think they're particularly helpful to the reader.
<godbyk> and they're rather awkward design-wise at the moment.
<jaminday> godbyk: yeah i was thinking the same...
<godbyk> cool.  since humphreybc's clueless, I'll just do it and he can yell at me later when he realizes what I've done.  ;-)
<jaminday> hehe
<humphreybc> sure remove them
<humphreybc> sorry guys i'm totally trying to do too many things at once
<humphreybc> http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/ubuntubusinesscard.png
<godbyk> Hey, vish, you around?
<godbyk> humphreybc: nice. why three out of five pips?
<humphreybc> no idea
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> that's what martin used
<humphreybc> http://humphreybc.wordpress.com/2010/03/14/ubuntu-business-card/
<humphreybc> read the first sentence and click on the link
<humphreybc> i just grabbed his thing because i don't know much about SVG
<humphreybc> Inkscape *
<jaminday> Hey godbyk, do we have a latex command for mentioning where to click on a website? I'm using quotation marks at the moment but there is probably something prettier
<godbyk> humphreybc: I like yours better than Martins.
<godbyk> Martin's.
<humphreybc> :)
<humphreybc> now that i think about it, i have a reason for the 3/5 pips
<godbyk> jaminday: I don't think we do.  Quotes are probably fine.
<humphreybc> in the pips, the 3 on the left are orange, two on the right are white
<humphreybc> in the name, the first name is white, the second name is orange
<humphreybc> it balances out the name somewhat
<godbyk> humphreybc: I'd get 4/5 pips just to one-up you.
<humphreybc> hahaa
<jaminday> godbyk: thanks no worries i'll keep it at that then
<humphreybc> that could be your rating in the community
<humphreybc> Mark would have 5/5
<humphreybc> I'd have 1/5 :P
<vish> godbyk: hei
<godbyk> vish: now what was I going to ask you? :)
<vish> lol..
<jaminday> humphreybc: I just did a commit but now getting the message that branches have diverged and I cannot push
<jaminday> how do i fix this again?
<humphreybc> uuuuuuuuuuum
<humphreybc> bzr merge?
<humphreybc> backup what you've changed first though
<jaminday> yeah i will
<godbyk> vish: it was something about icons or graphics...
<godbyk> lemme scroll through the code and see if it triggers anything.
<jaminday> hmmm... i tried merge but getting the same message. It's asking if i want to overwrite when i go to push - should i say yes?
<godbyk> aha!
<godbyk> vish: can you get me icons for the \advanced and \warning call-outs?
<humphreybc> jaminday: sure
<humphreybc> if you destroy everything it's not the end of the world...
<humphreybc> O.o
<vish> godbyk: i thought icons were dropped..
<jaminday> hehe
<humphreybc> who said icons were dropped?
<godbyk> vish: I think only the per-chapter icons were dropped.
<humphreybc> wait when did we decide on this?
<godbyk> humphreybc: I think you were having banana cake at the time or something. ;-)
<vish> godbyk: ah, this advanced/warnings is for the boxes ?
<godbyk> vish: yep, those.
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> i think we should keep the chapter icon idea
<godbyk> humphreybc: we couldn't come up with really good icons for all the chapters.
<humphreybc> as long as we can easily find icons for each chapter
<humphreybc> really?
<humphreybc> that sucks
<humphreybc> let's have another brainstorm :)
<jaminday> humphreybc: btw think i got it sorted
<humphreybc> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UMPicons
<humphreybc> jaminday: sweetbix
<jaminday> btw#2 my banana butterscotch pudding was freakin awesome
<vish> godbyk: what color and size did we want them in? [/me tuned out a bit too]
<godbyk> vish: good question.  color should probably match the color scheme when end up going with. (whatever that is)
<humphreybc> godbyk, vish, i've come up with rough icon ideas for all chapters bar two
<humphreybc> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UMPicons
<godbyk> vish: size should be scalable. something simple enough that inkscape can export to pdf easily would be best.
<godbyk> humphreybc: Here's what thorwil came up with a while back: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/hgBlhqyoMH
<humphreybc> oh
<humphreybc> that's useful.
<humphreybc> vish, are you in the pad thing
<humphreybc> ?
<vish> yeah
<humphreybc> cool
<humphreybc> ideas for the other ones?
<humphreybc> ie, installation? default apps? security?
<godbyk> so what do you think should be done with these icons when we have them?
<humphreybc> i'll show you, hang on
<vish> icons are not needed  , they are just distractions IMO
<vish> get the layout and other stuff right , use only icons for the tooltips which need to attract the attention
<humphreybc> they're pretty distractions
<godbyk> if they're used, they should be strictly limited to the chapter opening, and even then they should be very subdued and unobtrusive.
<humphreybc> http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/chaptericon.png
<humphreybc> obviously we'd fiddle with the position and size
<godbyk> you'd have to move it into the margin area so the chapter title doesn't interfere with it.
<godbyk> also, I'd recommend making it more of a watermark.
<godbyk> and grayscale.
<humphreybc> either that or we could have them something like this: http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/chaptericon2.png
<humphreybc> http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/chaptericon3.png
<humphreybc> I like the last one, large grayscale watermark
<godbyk> the last one is closer to what I had in mind.
<humphreybc> larger and less opaque, http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/chaptericon4.png
<humphreybc> what do we think?
<godbyk> you could try letting part of the icon fall off the edge of the page.
<jaminday> i just came back. I'm not a design person but i had a look and i really like the last one - watermark style
<humphreybc> godbyk: http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/chaptericon5.png
<humphreybc> i also like #4
<godbyk> could go off the top edge, too.
<humphreybc> true
<godbyk> we'd have to adjust each icon accordingly, though..
<humphreybc> the circle of friends isn't the best logo for demonstrating the cut off though
<godbyk> some may not be as recognizable if you chop off 3/4 of them.
<humphreybc> http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/chaptericon6.png
<humphreybc> it would look better with other logos where there is more stuff in the middle
<godbyk> I'm doing a bunch of reworking of the interior design.
<godbyk> playing around with basing our doc on the tufte-book class instead of the latex book class (since it gives us some handy things for free).
<godbyk> Do you prefer fully-justified text or ragged right?
<godbyk> http://kevin.godby.org/private/ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual-justified.pdf
<godbyk> http://kevin.godby.org/private/ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual-ragged.pdf
<humphreybc> with a different icon: http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/chaptericon7.png
<humphreybc> hmmm
<humphreybc> what is it at the moment?
<humphreybc> i think justified is more formal rihgt
<humphreybc> you know the margin in those ones is huge right?
<vish> godbyk: pushed the advanced and the warning icons , to graphics/ , the old ones had transparency and stuff , which would mess up the pdf ..
<vish> old warning icon*
<humphreybc> have there been any studies or research on what people prefer or what's easier to read with justified vs. ragged?
<godbyk> justified is a bit more formal-looking, yeah.
<jaminday> night all, i'm off for the night, gotta give my head a rest
<godbyk> re: the margin, kinda. it's easier to read the main text with the shorter measure and gives us more room for stuff in the margin (since we have a lot of side notes and the screenshot captions will go there)
<godbyk> g'night, jaminday
<godbyk> vish: thanks!  I'll pull those in.
<jaminday> humphreybc: i did an overhaul of first part of chapter 1 RE getting hold of ubuntu CD image etc so you might want to check that out as well
<humphreybc> jaminday: you're heading to bed early!
<jaminday> cheers godbyk
<humphreybc> jaminday: cool
<jaminday> humphreybc: hehe no not off to bed yet, will probably watch a movie with my wife or something
<humphreybc> godbyk: i think the margin is a bit giant now
<humphreybc> groovy
<jaminday> cool, i'm off!
<humphreybc> godbyk, which one of the 7 proposals for chapter icons is the hardest to implement in latex?
<godbyk> 7?
<godbyk> they're all about the same.
<godbyk> if someone pre-scales and crops them and does all the graphics work first, then it's easy for me to pull them into latex and insert them in the upper right-hand corner of the page.
<godbyk> vish: I converted your SVG icons to PDF with inkscape and they look like crap.  Can you give it a shot?
<vish> hmm , that means pdf is not able to handle gradients either :/
<godbyk> I don't know if it's a limitation in PDF or an issue with inkscape.
<humphreybc> godbyk, so it doesn't matter having text over the top of an image?
<godbyk> humphreybc: nope.  I'll have latex place the image on the page after it's done laying out the text.
<godbyk> btw, what does everyone think about thorwil's title pages?  any preferences?
<humphreybc> groovy
<godbyk> brb
<vish> godbyk: do you have the pdf? let me see whats gone wrong
<humphreybc> I don't like any of the ones he has posted on his blog
<humphreybc> I like a combination of the things he has
<humphreybc> but he hasn't got one that uses all of them :P
<humphreybc> so I like the purple icons, without the curvy thing at the top or bottom, and dots in place of the wave at the bottom - but less dots, and centered
<vish> godbyk: alrighty , i'v made a bit of change , pushed a new change gain , lets see if pdf likes it
<vish> again*
<humphreybc> "Again, the fine dot patterns suggests a more enterprise focus" from Mark's post
<humphreybc> we want a wide spaced dot pattern
<humphreybc> because we're not appealing to the enterprise customers, and we're not written by canonical
<humphreybc> we're a community effort for the community
<humphreybc> same for the purple vs orange
<humphreybc> orange is more community, purple (aubergine) is more enterprise
<godbyk> I'm back.
<godbyk> I hate to re-bait and reset the mouse traps.
<godbyk> Total mouse body count from last night and tonight: 5.
<godbyk> vish: I'll pull and covert again. one sec.
<humphreybc> godbyk, sounds like the mice like your house
<godbyk> humphreybc: yeah, they showed up last week out of the blue.
<humphreybc> random
<godbyk> vish: still fails.  see http://kevin.godby.org/private/ubuntu-manual/advanced.pdf and http://kevin.godby.org/private/ubuntu-manual/warning.pdf
<godbyk> I'm just using inkscape, opening the svg, save as..., pdf.
<godbyk> humphreybc: they seem to like my peanut butter, though. <evil grin>
<humphreybc> lol
<vish> hmm , we need to just be plain and simple , geez why does everyone just like the glyph icons ! ;p
<godbyk> did we ever decide on justified vs. ragged right?
<vish> godbyk: how does thorwil do it?
<godbyk> vish: how does he do what?
 * vish  likes justified
<vish> godbyk: the export to pdf , seems to be working for him properly
<godbyk> vish: no gradients.
<godbyk> simple line drawings.
<vish> hmm , i recall he mentioned gradients were fine only transparency was the problem  , let me try again
 * humphreybc is going to get a chicken burger from willowbank
<godbyk> we could alternatively use png.  as long as it looks okay at whatever resolution we export it at and it doesn't bloat our manual's PDF size too much.
<humphreybc> godbyk, no we didn't
<godbyk> humphreybc: we didn't what?
<humphreybc> decide on just/ragged
<vish> hehe , everyone is talking to godbyk telegraphically ;p
<godbyk> humphreybc's asynchronous responses confuse and frighten me!  :-P
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> i think justified
<humphreybc> but dem margins are too wide man
<godbyk> I'm just a simple caveman hacker.  I don't understand your ways!
<humphreybc> 165 pages now hu
<humphreybc> huh*
<humphreybc> wow
 * humphreybc is getting chicken burger, bvs
<humphreybc> bbs*
<vish> godbyk: test the nogradient icons  , they work now..
<vish> pdf comes out fine for me
<godbyk> did you push the changes?
<vish> just pushed
<vish> bzr is too slow for realtime ;)
<godbyk> ah, there they are.
<humphreybc> nom nom this is one good burger
<humphreybc> hey godbyk, any tips on how to reduce server power usage?
<godbyk> vish: those are working now. thanks!
<vish> np..
<godbyk> humphreybc: depends on what the power is being used for.
<humphreybc> ?
<humphreybc> my server is going down for about 30 mins while i reduce the power :P
<humphreybc> and optimize it
<humphreybc> so those images won't work
<godbyk> humphreybc: try running powertop.. it'll make recommendations.  (not sure if it works when you're on AC.. might require battery power, I'm not sure.)
<humphreybc> i mean physical power reductions, i'm unplugging the optical drives and removing some unused PCI cards
<godbyk> Latest iteration (with vish's icons): http://kevin.godby.org/private/ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual.pdf
<godbyk> humphreybc: ah, that'll help, too.
<godbyk> humphreybc: can't pay the electric bill? :)
<godbyk> humphreybc: also, replace the power supply with an 80plus power supply: http://www.80plus.org/  they're more efficient.
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> i don't want to spend money!
<humphreybc> i just want cheap tips and tweaks to improve power usage :P
<godbyk> but spending money will save you money. :)
<humphreybc> trade off aint worth it xD
<humphreybc> it's got a 370W PSU right now
<humphreybc> i might get some of this to reduce noise
<humphreybc> http://www.ascent.co.nz/productspecification.aspx?ItemID=346582
<humphreybc> i'm a bit concerned about heat though
<humphreybc> i've got the CPU fan and the PSU fan running
<humphreybc> CPU fan is plugged into the CPU fan plug which has a BIOS setting to switch speed based on load
<humphreybc> I also have a side-case fan installed, but I've unplugged that because it was a bit noisy, and to save power. I've been putting my hand by the exhaust fan for the last few days and it's been really cool, so I'm pretty sure I can get by without the side fan
<humphreybc> but the mats might increase the heat
<godbyk> can you afford to slow the fans down? that'd reduce noise.
<humphreybc> probably
<humphreybc> but i can't slow the PSU fan
<humphreybc> and the CPU fan is already going as slow as it lets it go
<humphreybc> it's not particularly noisy at all
<humphreybc> I might buy this acoustic pad stuff though, it's only $36 with free delivery and comes with quite a bit
<humphreybc> I could undervolt the CPU?
<humphreybc> (to save power)
<humphreybc> can you run CPU's without a fan?
<godbyk> you'd have to check with your cpu manufacturer about that.
<godbyk> depends on the heat they put out and what kind of cooling options you have for that socket type.
<humphreybc> i've always thought it was incredibly risky to run them without a fan
 * humphreybc just bought two 320GB HDDs for $100
<humphreybc> how easy is it to format drives from the command line?
<godbyk> http://kevin.godby.org/private/ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual.pdf
<godbyk> I turned the \screenshotTODOs into floats and now they have captions, too.
<humphreybc> exciting!
<humphreybc> but no actual shots yet?
<godbyk> nope, not yet.
<godbyk> I'll give some of those a try in a sec.
<godbyk> do the shots you took correspond to some of the shots in the manual?
<godbyk> gonna do a big commit.  we'll see who I cause problems for. :)
<godbyk> okay, changes pushed.
<godbyk> if you guys get a sec, would you try compiling the PDF?  (if it complains of missing packages, run the pkgs/install-pkgs.sh script, then try again. if it still fails, tell me about it.)
<godbyk> Okay, I've done enough damage for one day.  I'm heading to bed.
<godbyk> G'night!
<humphreybc> crap
<humphreybc> i think it's broken
<humphreybc> the keyboard won't work anymore either
<humphreybc> well, it works, just not with the server
<humphreybc> i'm going to hard reset the bios..
<humphreybc> oh, it seemed to not like the CD roms being unplugged
<humphreybc> ext4 does definitely not like being shutdown unexpectedly
<humphreybc> aha, so it didn't boot up because the primary drive was unplugged
<humphreybc> so i need to change the primary drive from the DVD drive to the HDD
<humphreybc> good ol' IDE
<thorwil> good part-of-day!
<humphreybc> hi thorwil!
<thorwil> humphreybc: i wonder why you never replied to https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/msg00906.html, but now have a mail on chapter icons
<thorwil> http://humphreybc.homeip.net doesn't load here :/
<dutchie> o/
<humphreybc> lol hang on
<humphreybc> server is down atm
<humphreybc> should load now
<thorwil> does
<humphreybc> :)
<humphreybc> ah, technology. I can plug in a computer and turn it on and all the way on the other side of the world someone can see the files stored on it.
 * humphreybc is looking forward to his 2x 320GB HDDs and acoustic padding arriving so he can continue pimping the server
<thorwil> humphreybc, godbyk: http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/chaptericon2.png or http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/chaptericon3.png / http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/chaptericon7.png
<dutchie> second one
<humphreybc> i quite like: http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/chaptericon4.png
<thorwil> that is, if at all
<dutchie> chaptericon3.png
 * humphreybc restarting the server
<humphreybc> back up in about 2 minutes
<humphreybc> ....and it's back up
<dutchie>  09:34:02 up 39 days, 12:02,  4 users,  load average: 0.20, 0.07, 0.01
<humphreybc> 4 users huh?
<humphreybc> but do you have a fancy page to tell you those stats?
<humphreybc> http://humphreybc.homeip.net/phpsysinfo
<dutchie> 4 users are 4 instances of me
<humphreybc> hahaha
<humphreybc> okay
<humphreybc> it's like... dutchie-server 413 users
<humphreybc> 413 users! man your server must be popular!
<humphreybc> dutchie: nah, it's just 413 instances of me
<dutchie> $ ssh vps who
<dutchie> jrh      pts/1        2010-02-22 18:30 (78.150.76.153:S.0)
<dutchie> jrh      pts/2        2010-02-02 21:31 (78.150.76.153:S.1)
<dutchie> jrh      pts/3        2010-02-02 21:32 (78.150.76.153:S.2)
<dutchie> jrh      pts/4        2010-02-26 23:02 (78.150.76.153:S.3)
<dutchie> \o/
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> so i got two 320GB HDDs off trademe for $100
<humphreybc> so I'll have about 1.2TB of space soon :)
<humphreybc> and then i got some exciting noise reducing 5mm thick pad things
<humphreybc> so it'll be really exciting
 * humphreybc can't wait to build his own house one day. it will have a mint server-controlled heating system
 * humphreybc still hasn't done the wiki overhaul
<humphreybc> balsfhasg
 * humphreybc thought that he had a lot of karma...
<humphreybc> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+topcontributors
<humphreybc> godbyk, you know there are a couple of compile time errors in the title and author?
<humphreybc> so this is what Canonical does in their spare time... http://www.flickr.com/photos/iain/sets/72157622861379369/
<humphreybc> :P
<daker> hi @all
<godbyk> hey, daker. how's it going?
<daker> fine
<daker> so i want to create a new project for the website
<daker> i have made a lot of things this week end
<ubuntujenkins> hello everyone
<daker> hi ubuntujenkins
<ubuntujenkins> hi daker what stuff have you made for the website?
<thorwil> hi all
<ubuntujenkins> hello thorwil
<thorwil> godbyk: there's still just "Advanced" and "Warning" as special sections in need of icons, right?
<godbyk> thorwil: So far, yeah.
<godbyk> vish provided me with a couple icons for them yesterday.
<daker> ubuntujenkins, http://10.30.236.83/daker-remake/
<godbyk> thorwil: have you seen the updated manual with the new layout stuff yet?
<ubuntujenkins> daker the link is broken acording to chromium
<daker> oki
<daker> one minute
<thorwil> godbyk: what is vish thinking, not letting me know ... can you show them to me?
<thorwil> godbyk: nope
<vish> thorwil hei!
<godbyk> thorwil: sure, they're in the bzr repository.  graphics/warning.pdf and graphics/advanced.pdf
<vish> thorwil: i got pinged today morning , and i just did them since i had time.. and you werent around either :(
<godbyk> feel free to change 'em. I'm not picky.  I just wanted something I could drop in to get rid of the ! and !! placeholders.
<thorwil> vish: it's all good. my own fault to have some work on that sleeping on my hd
<godbyk> thorwil: http://kevin.godby.org/private/ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual.pdf
<godbyk> I still have plenty of work to do, but it's getting there.
<godbyk> we should figure out what's up with the chapter headings soon so I don't have to panic about it later. :)
<vish> thorwil: lol , its yesterday for godbyk but it was morning for us ;) , noon for me rather ;p
<godbyk> yeah, it's 15:18 on Sunday for me right now.
<thorwil> vish: we will use the !-triangle in any case. though i made it monochrome
<vish> thorwil: i dont see the point of those icons being monochrome , the warning needs to attract attention
<thorwil> vish: it will, in yellow/orange
<thorwil> godbyk: what's open about the chapter headings?
<vish> thorwil: anyways , if anyone asks me to do stuff , i'll tell them to run it by you first :)
<thorwil> heh
<godbyk> thorwil: well the entire design is up in the air at the moment. waiting to hear what's going on re: per-chapter icons and, if we're going with them, where they'll be placed, etc.
<thorwil> vish, godbyk: this is what i was about to put on my blog: http://www.foopics.com/showfull/1150a8b26fb909c47aa9469291f4ed44
<daker> ubuntujenkins, try now http://10.30.236.83/daker-remake/
<ubuntujenkins> still broken daker
<daker> chit
<godbyk> daker: the 10.x.x.x IP address is internal only.  you'll have to give us your external ip address.
<godbyk> thorwil: cool.  the \advanced icon will be the most difficult one, I think.
<daker> godbyk, that's right
<vish> thorwil: what is the ladder for?
<godbyk> vish: the icons on the second row are attempts to indicate 'advanced'
<thorwil> right
<vish> ;s
<vish> thorwil: also , since the warning is yellow on white  , have a darker border..
<vish> which would probably be the same as the current one :(
<godbyk> How do other manuals do it?
<godbyk> I know that Knuth's TeX manual using a 'dangerous bend' icon for warnings and advanced material: http://www.truetex.com/db.htm
<vish> godbyk: i recall seeing spanners for advanced..
<godbyk> He uses one dangerous bend for advanced material and two dangerous bend icons for super-advanced material.
<dutchie> do we really need a right margin that wide?
<godbyk> dutchie: nag, nag, nag. :)
<dutchie> heh
<godbyk> I haven't decided yet.  It's the default margins in the tufte-book class, which is based on the book design used in Edward Tufte's books.
<godbyk> he makes more extensive use of marginal material that we do at the moment.
<godbyk> but I wanted to shorten the measure of the main text block at any rate.
<thorwil> great. a quick image search reveals 3 different dangerous-bend signs
<dutchie> is command-line/.command-line.tex.properties.xml generated by something of godbyk's?
<godbyk> dutchie: now that I'm aware of..
<dutchie> nothing seems to have been broken by killing it
<godbyk> dutchie: I don't see that file here. did your editor create it?
<dutchie> don't think so
<godbyk> ah, I see others like it here, though.
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: A while ago it was said to change the combo box in in the screenshot choosing window to something else. what was the reasoning behind that?
<godbyk> I'll see if I can figure out where they come from
<Red_HamsterX> ubuntujenkins, I don't recall any of the specifics associated with this discussion. I think titeuf is who you'd want to speak to.
<ubuntujenkins> ok thank you I will ask him when he is next around
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: was it changing the dropdown box (containing the list of screenshots) to a list box?
<ubuntujenkins> It was godbyk, that was it.
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: the reasoning behind that would be that drop-down boxes that contain a huge list of items are hard to use, and using a list box is better in that case.
<godbyk> it makes it easier to navigate longer lists because you can see more of the context.
<ubuntujenkins> Now I remeber I will try and change it to make it look right
<ubuntujenkins> thanks
<thorwil> 6586 views for the Ubuntu Manual Title Page post, but very sparing feedback
<vish> thorwil: just read the ML reply , i said the same thing about having chapter icons.. we dont need them ;)
<thorwil> godbyk: btw, contact on your website lacks country
<godbyk> which site?
<godbyk> (too many profiles)
<thorwil> http://kevin.godby.org
<thorwil> is there a better one to link your name with?
<godbyk> ah, thanks. I'll fix that.
<godbyk> nope, you can link to my site.
<thorwil> if only i could write a resume like that. i can only point to examples and hope nobody asks for my CV which is such a wreck that i wouldn't hire myself
<thorwil> http://thorwil.wordpress.com/2010/03/14/ubuntu-manual-icons/
<godbyk> yeah, I need to update my CV, too.  I hate writing about myself.
<godbyk> I think I like the second column of icons.. with the black.  It'll print better and has a bigger impact.
<thorwil> noted
<thorwil> good night! :)
<ubuntujenkins> nn o/
<daker> ubuntujenkins, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-website
 * ubuntujenkins looks
<ubuntujenkins> daker I am confused i get  bzr branch lp:~adnane002/ubuntu-manual-website/website
<ubuntujenkins> bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: "bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~adnane002/ubuntu-manual-website/website/". when pulling the branch
<ubuntujenkins> am i being silly?
<daker> I have not yet push the work
<ubuntujenkins> there is no branch there yet
<ubuntujenkins> just got it :-)
<ubuntujenkins> I am testing quickshot so I may acedntly log ou tin a second
<ubuntujenkins> sorry for the jumble I had to type fast just in case
<daker> ubuntujenkins, try now
<ubuntujenkins> I now have an empty folder called website
<ubuntujenkins> back now
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: heh.. you could just change that line to: if not os.environ["USER"] == "quickshot" and not os.environ["USER"] == "luke-jennings":  for now and be done with it for a while. :-)
<daker> ubuntujenkins, i dont know what's the problem
<ubuntujenkins> good point godbyk I keep forgetting to change it back. its very anoying
<ubuntujenkins> did you run bzr add daker?
<daker> yesp
<daker> daker@daker-laptop:/var/www/daker-remake$ bzr add
<ubuntujenkins> then bzr commit -m "chnage goes here"
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: are you on the frontend or backend of things?  it's been a while since I've seen the workflow on the front-end, but when I last saw it (some weeks ago), it looked like there might have been a couple unnecessary steps in there.  is there a current diagram showing the user's path through the program?
<daker> ubuntujenkins, bzr commit âm "first prototype of the website"
<daker> Committing to: /var/www/daker-remake/
<daker> Traceback (most recent call last):
<daker>   File "/usr/lib/python2.6/logging/__init__.py", line 791, in emit
<daker>     stream.write(fs % msg.encode("UTF-8"))
<daker> UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xe2 in position 80: ordinal not in range(128)
<daker> bzr: ERROR: Path(s) are not versioned: "âm" "first prototype of the website"
<daker> this is bugg ?
<ubuntujenkins> Have a run of main and see what you think godbyk I am mostly front end the python is to hard for me. I will be interested if it works for you. btw a package call disper will be installed it allows us to deal with nvidia stuff
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: how do I test quickshot and do I need to close all my programs first (so it can log out)?
<ubuntujenkins> wow daker that looks fun
<daker> ubuntujenkins, hhhhh
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: go to the quickshot diectory where the banch is and do "quickly run" and follow thought the instructions if you have done it before do "quickly run -r"
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: shall I dump my stream-of-consciousness thoughts here for ya?
<ubuntujenkins> daker: just to  check you did "bzr commit -m "first prototype of the website""
<ubuntujenkins> please do godbyk or paste bin it and then link it to me
<godbyk> okay. here goes:
<godbyk> the window doesn't need to be resizable.  if you allow resizing the elements in the window should resize appropriately.  right now it just ads extra padding which isn't helpful.
<godbyk> the Cancel button should probably be renamed Close
<godbyk> the about dialog says version 0.03, but the main window says version 0.02
<godbyk> File > Quit should have a shortcut key (Ctrl+Q) associated with it.
<godbyk> might be better to go with File > Close (Ctrl+W) instead. I'd have to check the current HIG for what's proper now.
<godbyk> the Next and Cancel buttons are too wide.
<godbyk> [regretting this yet? :-)]
<ubuntujenkins> no this is good no one has given us much feed back on the project so far
<godbyk> clicking next causes the program to appear to lock up.  there's no status as to what it's doing or why it's taking so long.
<ubuntujenkins> which next buttons that?
<godbyk> the first next button.  while it's downloading disper in the background.
<ubuntujenkins> that will hopefully go, I am hoping to have disper as a dependcey
<godbyk> the next thing I see as the user is the dialog asking for my password, telling me it wants to install something.  that's kinda scary.
<godbyk> okay
<daker> ubuntujenkins, any idea ?
<godbyk> if I cancel the password dialog and click close on the next password dialog (it's rather persistent, isn't it?), then quickshot closes without another word on the gui side.
<ubuntujenkins> daker i am afraid not if you did the command right then it might be a bug
<godbyk> the only reason I know what's going on is because I saw the console output in the terminal window.
<daker> oki
<godbyk> I'm letting it install disper this time.
<ubuntujenkins> try setting the branch up again daker
<godbyk> there's no progress display during the install, either.
<godbyk> okay, it's asking for a pwd for the quickshot user.
<godbyk> the text is all centered. that's bad.
<ubuntujenkins> thats my fault
<ubuntujenkins> thats easy to change
<godbyk> you say I should enter the password for the new user in the boxes below.  there's only one box.
<ubuntujenkins> lol
<godbyk> the spacing and button positions don't follow the HIG either.
<godbyk> if I hit the Close button, quickshot exits without another word.
<ubuntujenkins> what do you expect it to say?
<godbyk> admit that it can't continue without creating the quickshot user.  give me options to go back and create the user or to give up on the whole quickshot thing.
<ubuntujenkins> ok i see
<godbyk> there was another long delay after entering the pwd for the quickshot user. no status reports and the UI kind of freezes during that time.
<godbyk> on this screen it says a new user has been created called "Quickshot" with a capital Q.  on the previous screen it was lowercase Q.
<ubuntujenkins> thats alos caused by a tempoary bit of code untill we have aproper program it has to pull the bzr branch into the quickshot user
<godbyk> centered text and button possitions again.
<godbyk> Close button has C underlined, but Login button doesn't have a shortcut key.
<godbyk> will clicking the login button switch users or actually log me out?
<godbyk> i.e., will it close all of my programs and cause me to lose work?
<ubuntujenkins> switch users, but just in case please save everything it has worked so far but..
<godbyk> might be good to note that in this window.
<godbyk> I'll be back in a sec. going to hit the login button.
<ubuntujenkins> any luck daker?
<ubuntujenkins> kk godbyk
<daker> its works
 * ubuntujenkins bets godbyk will mention about centred text again :-)
<ubuntujenkins> cool daker i will do a pull
<daker> wait a minute
<ubuntujenkins> kk
<daker> its not yet complet
<daker> hi is pushing right now
<godbyk-quickshot> okay.. logged in as quickshot now.
<godbyk-quickshot> when quickshot starts up again, it shows the same first screen as before..
<godbyk-quickshot> where it says it will create a new user and I'll be prompted for my password during setup, etc.
<ubuntujenkins> yep I will chanage  text in the lable
<godbyk-quickshot> if I'm already logged in as quickshot, then it should instead give me a 'congratulations!' dialog and continue on.
<godbyk-quickshot> clicking next took a while.
<godbyk-quickshot> the window disappeared for a bit.
<godbyk-quickshot> just came back with the warning. lemme read this.
<ubuntujenkins> yep i can tidy that up easy
<godbyk-quickshot> non-standard dialog layout. see the gnome hig again for details.
<godbyk-quickshot> there's no way for me to bail out at this point.. just the OK button.
<ubuntujenkins> I think i need to eat the gnome hig :-)
<godbyk-quickshot> going to hit the window's close button and see what happens.
<ubuntujenkins> good point
<godbyk-quickshot> closed the window with the window control and now I'm still logged in as quickshot without any idea of what's going on.
<godbyk-quickshot> going to restart quickshot manually from a terminal.
<ubuntujenkins> daker silly question which bit do i open with chrome?
<godbyk-quickshot> okay
<godbyk-quickshot> that didn't work well.
<ubuntujenkins> what happend?
<godbyk-quickshot> just changed the screen res to something (it claims)
<godbyk-quickshot> everything is white except the quickshot dialog
<ubuntujenkins> and did it?
<godbyk-quickshot> not even sure if I'm typing in the xchat window
<ubuntujenkins> you are
<daker> what ?
<godbyk-quickshot> it said if I didn't hit 'ok' (with the timeout) that it would log me out.  why log me out?
<godbyk-quickshot> brb, going to cancel  quickshot and see if I can see again
<godbyk> okay, I'm back as me now.  had to hit ctrl+alt+f1 and alt+f7 to switch back to my regular user.
<ubuntujenkins> daker: how do i view the website with chrome?
<ubuntujenkins> logging out is the only way we can restores people resolution 100% of the time. godbyk
<ubuntujenkins> you have a new bug if you can't see anything
<godbyk> yeah, everything was completely white.
<godbyk> I mean *completely*.
<godbyk> the only thing I could see was the quickshot window.
<godbyk> I could hit alt+tab and see the windows in the switcher list.
<daker> ubuntujenkins, you have to install a lamp server
<ubuntujenkins> you were typing in xchat still. that is very strange
<godbyk> then I just waved my mouse around until it changed to the text insert I-beam cursor and typed into xchat.
<godbyk> I've got a dual-head setup with an nvidia card.
<ubuntujenkins> I have tested it on dual head it should work
<ubuntujenkins> daker i will see if I have enough space to instal one
<godbyk> I'll try to switch back to the quickshot user and see if it's any better.
<godbyk> one sec
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: can you open a terminal and do disper -l an post please
<godbyk> $ disper -l
<godbyk> display DFP-0: Samsung SyncMaster
<godbyk>  resolutions: 320x240, 400x300, 416x312, 512x384, 576x432, 680x384, 640x480, 720x450, 640x512, 800x512, 840x525, 800x600, 960x540, 832x624, 960x600, 1024x768, 1152x864, 1360x768, 1280x960, 1440x900, 1280x1024, 1400x1050, 1600x1024, 1600x1200
<godbyk> display DFP-1: Samsung SyncMaster
<godbyk>  resolutions: 320x240, 400x300, 416x312, 512x384, 576x432, 680x384, 640x480, 720x450, 640x512, 800x512, 840x525, 800x600, 960x540, 832x624, 960x600, 1024x768, 1152x864, 1360x768, 1280x960, 1440x900, 1280x1024, 1400x1050, 1600x1024, 1600x1200
<ubuntujenkins> ok thats fine give quickshot another go
<ubuntujenkins> I am not sure why it isn't working at this moment in time
<godbyk-quickshot> okay. back as quickshot user. everything okay again here.
<ubuntujenkins> nice what resolution are you at normal or not?
<godbyk-quickshot> I'm normally running at 1600x1200 for both monitors.
<godbyk-quickshot> and the nvidia tool says I'm running at that now under the quickshot user.
<godbyk-quickshot> some output from the terminal:
<godbyk-quickshot> $ ./run.sh
<godbyk-quickshot> Running Quickshot
<godbyk-quickshot> disper installed
<godbyk-quickshot> You have not informed bzr of your Launchpad ID, and you must do this to
<godbyk-quickshot> write to Launchpad or access private data.  See "bzr help launchpad-login".
<godbyk-quickshot> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~quickshotdevs/quickshot/quickshot is permanently redirected to /~quickshotdevs/quickshot/quickshot/changes
<godbyk-quickshot> You have not informed bzr of your Launchpad ID, and you must do this to
<godbyk-quickshot> write to Launchpad or access private data.  See "bzr help launchpad-login".
<godbyk-quickshot> No revisions to pull.
<godbyk-quickshot> WARNING: you should run this program as super-user.
<godbyk-quickshot> WARNING: you should run this program as super-user.
<godbyk-quickshot> (whoa! sorry about the paste spam)
<godbyk-quickshot> I don't know what program is running when it says it should be ran as root.
<ubuntujenkins> lshw
<godbyk-quickshot> ah
<godbyk-quickshot> I'll run quickshot again and see what blows up
<ubuntujenkins> nothing abnormal
<ubuntujenkins> hang on
<godbyk-quickshot> ok
<ubuntujenkins> please do "disper -c -r 800x600" that should change your resolution
<godbyk-quickshot> I'll try that. just a sec.
<ubuntujenkins> cool
<godbyk-quickshot> btw, hitting the window's close button when the 'hit okay to change resolutions' window is up doesn't cause quickshot to exit.  it just closes the window.
<godbyk-quickshot> do I need to use sudo with disper?
<ubuntujenkins> nope
<godbyk-quickshot> 'kay. here goes.
<godbyk-quickshot> wow
<godbyk-quickshot> okay.
<godbyk-quickshot> that worked.
<godbyk-quickshot> definitely changed the res.
<godbyk-quickshot> now both monitors are showing the same image, too.
<ubuntujenkins> nice that sound good
<godbyk-quickshot> can I just say how ugly 800x600 is?  it's been a long time... :)
<godbyk-quickshot> should I change it back and let quickshot try it?
<godbyk-quickshot> or just run quickshot from here?
<ubuntujenkins> it is a pain I hate it I am toying with 1048x764
<ubuntujenkins> chnage it back
<ubuntujenkins> there is something wrong with that part of the code
<godbyk-quickshot> okay.. back to two monitors, 1600x1200.
<ubuntujenkins> daker will installing a lamp mean it points outwards on my pc haveing a server of any kind is against my uni useage policy
<godbyk-quickshot> running quickshot again
<daker> ubuntujenkins, no
<ubuntujenkins> ok which packages do install on ubuntu-desktop?
<godbyk-quickshot> okay, the res change worked this time.
<godbyk-quickshot> uh oh
<godbyk> heh
<godbyk> okay. so if you click on the window close button on the 'yay, the new res worked!' screen, then you get logged out.
<godbyk> that doesn't seem right.
<daker> ubuntujenkins, sudo apt-get install lamp-server^
<ubuntujenkins> thanks daker
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk thats a code fail definaly needs a fix
<godbyk> fair enough.
<godbyk> I'm going back in. :)
 * ubuntujenkins files 100 more bugs :-P
<ubuntujenkins> \o/
<daker> ubuntujenkins, how old are u ?
<ubuntujenkins> 20 why?
<daker> juste a question :)
<ubuntujenkins> I am new to all the server and python and bzr and laytex stuff btw
<ubuntujenkins> fair enough
<daker> what licence should we use for the website ?
<godbyk> okay, it does indeed log you back out if you let the timer expire.
<godbyk> going in again.
 * ubuntujenkins installes a lamp server
<daker> godbyk, wich licence should we use for the website ?
<godbyk> oh, here's another bug for ya, ubuntujenkins: when quickshot first starts up, the default button is the Cancel button.
<godbyk> daker: the content should probably be under CC-BY-SA, since that's what the manual is under.
<ubuntujenkins> sorry but which button godbyk?
<godbyk> the code itself.. I dunno, I'd go with something pretty liberal like Apache or something.
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: on the first screen when you run 'quickly run'.. the Cancel button is what's highlighted. (so if I press Enter, that'll be the button that gets 'clicked')
<godbyk> this is on the Welcome to Quickshot! screen.
<ubuntujenkins> i see ok noted
<godbyk> you should set the default buttons on all of the screens, actually.  I think most the screens didn't have defaults set.
<godbyk> brb.. switching to quickshot again
<ubuntujenkins> ok daker i have a lamp now what do i do?
<godbyk-quickshot> okay, I made it to the 'choose your language/screenshot' dialog.
<godbyk-quickshot> the first two paragraphs are unnecessary.
<ubuntujenkins> woooo thats as far as it goes in main
<godbyk-quickshot> the program doesn't need to brag about what it's done, and that info isn't particularly helpful to the user.
<ubuntujenkins> ok also noted
<daker> ubuntujenkins,
<daker> type 127.0.0.1 in your browser
<ubuntujenkins> it works aparently
<ubuntujenkins> thanks godbyk-quickshot any other thoughts?
<daker> second thing
<godbyk-quickshot> hitting cancel makes the window go away.  but the process is just marked <defunct>
<daker> cd /etc/apache2/mods-enabled
<daker> touch rewrite.load
<daker> gedit rewrite.load (you may use any editor to edit this file)
<daker> now paste this following line
<daker> LoadModule rewrite_module /usr/lib/apache2/modules/mod_rewrite.so
<daker> Then edit /etc/apache2/sites-available/default
<daker> Find the following
<daker> Options Indexes FollowSymLinks MultiViews
<daker> AllowOverride None
<daker> Order allow,deny
<daker> allow from all
<daker> and change it to
<daker> Options Indexes FollowSymLinks MultiViews
<daker> AllowOverride all
<daker> Order allow,deny
<daker> allow from all
<daker> and finally restart Apache
<daker> /etc/init.d/apache2 restart
<godbyk-quickshot> ubuntujenkins, you should also make sure I'm not already running at 800x600 before you tell me you're going to change the res.
<ubuntujenkins> thanks very much godbyk-quickshot lots to do I am going to mail the list the log
<ubuntujenkins> that could be hard
<ubuntujenkins> *very
<godbyk-quickshot> I'm going to logout of quickshot. brb.
<godbyk> okay, back.
<godbyk> It seemed like quickshot spent a lot of time telling me what it had done, what it was doing, and what it was going to do.
<godbyk> Most of that can be hidden behind a progress bar and a small label.
<ubuntujenkins> I didn't write those bits.
<ubuntujenkins> I will change them
<godbyk> Only pester the user if you're about to do something potentially dangerous or if you require information from the user.
<ubuntujenkins> ok I looked up the gnome hig and it is long
<godbyk> We should strive to make it as easy as possible for the user (at the sake of making it more difficult for the developer).
<godbyk> heh, yeah, it is.
<godbyk> You'll really only care about the dialog design parts, though.
<ubuntujenkins> daker etc/init.d/apache2 restart
<ubuntujenkins>  * Restarting web server apache2                                                apache2: Could not reliably determine the server's fully qualified domain name, using 127.0.1.1 for ServerName
<ubuntujenkins> apache2: Could not reliably determine the server's fully qualified domain name, using 127.0.1.1 for ServerName
<ubuntujenkins> (13)Permission denied: make_sock: could not bind to address [::]:80
<ubuntujenkins> (13)Permission denied: make_sock: could not bind to address 0.0.0.0:80
<ubuntujenkins> no listening sockets available, shutting down
<ubuntujenkins> Unable to open logs
<ubuntujenkins>     I think it would be easyier if we could get it on a server so that all could look
<ubuntujenkins> sorry about the spam
<ubuntujenkins> ok got it godbyk I shall focus on those bits
<godbyk> if it's the ubuntu-manual site that daker is working on, he can put his code in ubuntu-manual/website/daker/ and we can view it on the test.ubuntu-manual.org server.
<daker> godbyk, its possible ?
<ubuntujenkins> that would make more sense
<godbyk> daker: Yes. Just make a new directory under the website/ dir and put your code in there.
<godbyk> I'll link it to a subdir under the test.ubuntu-manual.org site for you.
<daker> oki
<ubuntujenkins> night people, thanks again godbyk
<godbyk> no problem. see ya, ubuntujenkins.
<daker> godbyk, daker@daker-laptop:~/ubuntu-manual$ bzr push --no-strict lp:ubuntu-manual
<daker> No new revisions to push.
<godbyk> daker: what's 'bzr status' say?
<daker> daker@daker-laptop:~/ubuntu-manual$ bzr status
<daker> removed:
<daker>   website/wolter-remake/share/images/button_outline.png
<daker>   website/wolter-remake/share/scripts/buttons.js
<daker> modified:
<daker>   website/countdown/index.html
<godbyk> daker: did you 'bzr add website/daker' or whatever dir you added?  and then 'bzr commit'?
<daker>   website/countdown/style.css
<daker> unknown:
<daker>   website/daker/
<daker>   website/countdown/style.css.BASE
<godbyk> aha.
<daker>   website/countdown/style.css.OTHER
<daker>   website/countdown/style.css.THIS
<daker> conflicts:
<daker>   Text conflict in website/countdown/style.css
<godbyk> run bzr add website/daker
<godbyk> it looks like you've modified some other things.  did you intend to?  (like the countdown stuff and the wolter-remake button stuff)
<daker> yep
<daker> i have to re pull it ?
<godbyk> okay. it looksl ike the website/countdown/style.css file has some conflicts. you should look into those before you commit that file.
<godbyk> but for now, to get your site up, do this:
<godbyk> 1. bzr add website/daker
<godbyk> 2. bzr commit website/daker
<daker> done
<godbyk> 3. bzr push
<daker> daker@daker-laptop:~/ubuntu-manual$  bzr commit website/daker
<daker> bzr: ERROR: Conflicts detected in working tree.  Use "bzr conflicts" to list, "bzr resolve FILE" to resolve.
<godbyk> okay. that's complaining about the website/countdown/style.css file
<godbyk> look at the website/countdown/style.css.OTHER and website/countdown/style.css.THIS files
<godbyk> figure out how best to merge all of that.
<godbyk> then type 'bzr resolve website/countdown/style.css' and fix up the .css file
<daker> g
<daker> godbyk,
<daker> daker@daker-laptop:~/ubuntu-manual$ bzr commit -m website/daker/ "first prototype of the website"
<daker> bzr: warning: The commit message is a file name: "website/daker/".
<daker> (use --file "website/daker/" to take commit message from that file)
<daker> Committing to: /home/daker/ubuntu-manual/
<daker> aborting commit write group: PathsNotVersionedError(Path(s) are not versioned: "first prototype of the website")
<daker> bzr: ERROR: Path(s) are not versioned: "first prototype of the website"
<godbyk> daker: put the -m after the website/daker/
<godbyk> so bzr commit website/daker -m "Daker's prototype of the website"
<daker> done
<godbyk> daker, okay, now 'bzr push'
<daker> bzr push
<daker> bzr: ERROR: Working tree "/home/daker/ubuntu-manual/" has uncommitted changes (See bzr status). Use --no-strict to force the push.
<godbyk> try 'bzr push --no-strict'
<daker> daker@daker-laptop:~/ubuntu-manual$ bzr push --no-strict
<daker> Using saved push location: bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/main/
<daker> bzr: ERROR: These branches have diverged.  See "bzr help diverged-branches" for more information.
<godbyk> daker: run 'bzr pull' then 'bzr merge'
<daker> daker@daker-laptop:~/ubuntu-manual$ bzr pull
<daker> Using saved parent location: bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/main/
<daker> bzr: ERROR: These branches have diverged. Use the missing command to see how.
<daker> Use the merge command to reconcile them.
<daker> daker@daker-laptop:~/ubuntu-manual$ bzr merge
<daker> bzr: ERROR: Working tree "/home/daker/ubuntu-manual/" has uncommitted changes (See bzr status).
<daker> daker@daker-laptop:~/ubuntu-manual$ bzr status
<daker> removed:
<daker>   website/wolter-remake/share/images/button_outline.png
<daker>   website/wolter-remake/share/scripts/buttons.js
<daker> modified:
<daker>   website/countdown/index.html
<daker>   website/countdown/style.css
<godbyk> okay. there are too many things going on there.
<godbyk> let's do this.
<godbyk> zip up your daker-remake dir and email it to me at <godbyk@gmail.com>
<godbyk> I'll add it to the branch for you.
<daker> oki
<godbyk> then we can clean up your local branch so that you're ready to make changes and commit them.
<godbyk> :)
<godbyk> brb.
#ubuntu-manual 2011-03-08
<jenkins> anyone know what screenshots are needed for the next release? I am trying to fix a bug in quickshot now
<MichealH> jenkins, You could get the book and look for placeholders?
<jenkins> MichealH: good idea I should know that really , is there a compiled one somewhere? downloading latex on my internet may take a while
<MichealH> jenkins, Well, Im sure there is a LP version of the book
<MichealH> Im not too sure about that
<jenkins> I will have a look, thanks for your help
<jenkins> godbyk: can i pause and resume the texlive download?
 * jenkins is slowly getting back into the manual
#ubuntu-manual 2011-03-13
<jenkins> evening all
<jenkins> meeting in 2 minutes right?
<ChrisWoollard> Wow.
<ChrisWoollard> Hello
<ChrisWoollard> Long time no see
<c7p> hello all
<RawChid> Hi
<jenkins> Hello, yea sorry real life has me very busy
<jenkins> how is everyone?
<ChrisWoollard> Alright I guess
 * dutchie back too
<jenkins> hello dutchie
<ChrisWoollard> Hello dutchie
<c7p> hey dutchie
<ChrisWoollard> Is Godbyk around?
<jenkins> pass
<jenkins> anyone here with a launchpad id of rutcast who is interested in quickshot?
<ChrisWoollard> I haven't
<jenkins> or anyone esle :D
<jenkins> etherpad tells you what browser people ar eusing if you hover over their name
<jenkins> well it did a minute ago
<c7p> jenkins yes you use Chrome, interesting ... ;)
<jenkins> correct :)
<ChrisWoollard> How long should we wait?
<jenkins> 2 more mins
<ChrisWoollard> Does anybody know how the meeting bot thing works?
<c7p> i don't :/
<jenkins> type "#startmeeting" iirc
<jenkins> or with as space
<ChrisWoollard> Ok then
<ChrisWoollard> #start meeting
<ChrisWoollard> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 15:12. The chair is ChrisWoollard.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<ChrisWoollard> Okay then, i guess that is it
<ChrisWoollard> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UbuntuManualMeetingMarch2011-1
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UbuntuManualMeetingMarch2011-1
<ChrisWoollard> #topic Feedback on role advertisments
<godbyk> Hey, guys.  Sorry I'm late.
<ChrisWoollard> Hello
<jenkins> its [topic]
<RawChid> [TOPIC] Feedback on role advertisments
<c7p> hi Kevin
<jenkins> :)
<RawChid> ;)
<ChrisWoollard> [TOPIC] Feedback on role advertisments
<MootBot> New Topic:  Feedback on role advertisments
<jenkins> hello godbyk
<ChrisWoollard> Cool. thanks
<ChrisWoollard> Godbyk. Have you reviewed the roles?
<jenkins> did we get any aplicats?
<godbyk> We did get some applicants, yes.
<ChrisWoollard> a handfull
<godbyk> Let me collect the emails and put them up on the web or paste them someplace.
<godbyk> One moment.
<c7p> neat :D
<daker_> hello all ã
<ChrisWoollard> hello
<c7p> hi
<ChrisWoollard> For those that didn't see. We have a page on ubuntu-manual.org/jobs now
<ChrisWoollard> We should really have prepared this in advance.
<jenkins> shall id do a quickshot update its a bit out of sink?
<daker_> good
<jenkins> as far as the agenda is
<ChrisWoollard> maybe i should change the topic
<ChrisWoollard> then
<ChrisWoollard> [TOPIC] Quickshot update
<MootBot> New Topic:  Quickshot update
<jenkins> It functions enough to create the screenshots for the next release, I could do with a list as I have yet to install latex
<jenkins> *list of screenshots
<godbyk> (Okay, I've pasted the emails and resumes that we've received so far to http://kevin.godby.org/private/ubuntu-manual/jobs/.)
<ChrisWoollard> godbyk. We will come back to that.
<jenkins> I am trying to fix a bug  with the contributor details but not managed yet as flan did a rewrite
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: np.
<jenkins> I will get my head around it though.
<jenkins> we could do with some more people. Nothing much eles to say
<jenkins> where did the website get to?
<ChrisWoollard> jenkins: Is there any documentation on Quickshot?
<jenkins> no afraid not
<daker_> jenkins, http://test.ubuntu-manual.org
<jenkins> daker_ how about the quickshot one
<daker_> it's almost complete
<jenkins> nice :)
<ChrisWoollard> Okay. Maybe then we should collect a list of chapters and get volunteers to get a list of screenshots for that chapter?
<ChrisWoollard> to spread the load a little
<jenkins> I will install latex in the mean while
<ChrisWoollard> Jenkins: What exactly do you need screenshot wise?
<jenkins> the resolution we want the at, sicking with 1024x768?
<ChrisWoollard> yes. for now.
<RawChid> Hey, I just fall into this, but what did you mean by < jenkins> we could do with some more people.
<jenkins> a description of them and the aplication
<jenkins> Well I dont have much time so people willing to code python and create docs for quickshot would be great
<RawChid> Okay
<RawChid> So you need developers
<jenkins> yep, my python is basic at best
<dutchie> i have been known to poke at python from time to time
 * dutchie downloads source code
<jenkins> sounds good. shall we move to another topic?
<jenkins> ls
<ChrisWoollard> I'll send out a list of chapters to the mailing list
<dutchie> looks like we can head back to jobs stuff now godbyk got the things online?
<ChrisWoollard> with the requirements and ask for voluteers to review what we need
<ChrisWoollard> [action] ChrisWoollard to send out to the mailing list screenshot requiremnts and ask for volunteers to review
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ChrisWoollard to send out to the mailing list screenshot requiremnts and ask for volunteers to review
<jenkins> are there any cahnges from 10.04?
<ChrisWoollard> [topic] Feedback on jobs part 2
<MootBot> New Topic:  Feedback on jobs part 2
<ChrisWoollard> jenkins: yes, installer, plus some app changes
<godbyk> I've pasted the text of the emails and the attached resumes/CVs here: http://kevin.godby.org/private/ubuntu-manual/jobs/
<godbyk> We had two applicants for the project leader role and three applicants for the editor in chief role.
<dutchie> well i suppose the first thing is whether we leave applications open or not
<c7p> godbyk: the advertisement has been done through the uk podacast ?
<dutchie> then how we choose between applicants
<dutchie> c7p: i believe so, yes
<ChrisWoollard> plus the planet
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard handled the advertising. We had an announcement on the UK podcast and also posted to Planet Ubuntu.
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: Were there any other adverts?
<c7p> ok thx
<ChrisWoollard> the mailing list
<godbyk> Ah, right. And the Ubuntu Manual mailing list.
<ChrisWoollard> I also believe I Tweeted it to #Ubuntu
<godbyk> Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!
<dutchie> @TheUbuntuManual didn't tweet it though
<manualbot> dutchie: Error: "TheUbuntuManual" is not a valid command.
<dutchie> cough
<dutchie> silly manualbot
<godbyk> dutchie: Yeah, I can't find the password for that account. I'll have to email Ben about that.
<ChrisWoollard> no. I think we were looking for the logins for that
<ChrisWoollard> [ACTION] Godbyk to e-mail Ben to get the logins to our Twitter account :)
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Godbyk to e-mail Ben to get the logins to our Twitter account :)
<jenkins> I think I may have the login some where
<c7p> if the jobs are still open to new applicants then maybe we should update the facebook about the advertisements and also send a mail to OMG!Ubuntu guys, probably to Ben
<ChrisWoollard> Any thoughts on the applicants
<godbyk> Action completed. :-)
<ChrisWoollard> :)
<ChrisWoollard> If we are going to leave it open then the webpage should be modified
<ChrisWoollard> to remove the date.
<c7p> yes you are right
<jenkins> does that not imply we do not like any of the candiates that have appled so far?
<c7p> no
<ChrisWoollard> We haven't heard any feedback yet
<godbyk> jenkins: Not necessarily. It'd be nice to have a larger pool of applicants, though.  And we should probably have advertised it more widely.
<c7p> the fact is that i didn't knew about the adv to promote it, maybe there are many other people out there that are also interested
<jenkins> sure, just putting a thought out there
<ChrisWoollard> We should change it so that people know it is community and not paid ;)
<c7p> i think the more options we have the better for the project
<ChrisWoollard> agreed
<godbyk> It sounds like most people think we should extend the deadline.  If so, what's the new proposed deadline?
<ChrisWoollard> another 2 weeks?
<c7p> two weeks max
<ChrisWoollard> godbyk: can you adjust the dates on the webpage?
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: Sure.
<godbyk> So the new deadline is Friday, 25 March?
<ChrisWoollard> [Action] Godbyk to update the Job Advertisment (+2 weeks)
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Godbyk to update the Job Advertisment (+2 weeks)
<ChrisWoollard> yes
<godbyk> done
<ChrisWoollard> Can you also make it so it sounds less like it is paid.
<godbyk> Yeah, I'll put a note at the top.
<godbyk> Just a moment.
<godbyk> (Have to find the proper css class.)
<ChrisWoollard> Where should we send it?
<ChrisWoollard> Ben @ omgubuntu
<ChrisWoollard> maybe the Linux Outlaws podcast?
<ChrisWoollard> that was weird. got kicked out
<ChrisWoollard> any other marketing ideas?
<c7p> at Ben, maybe post it to ubuntuforums and wherever everyone of us can
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: How's the note at the top of http://ubuntu-manual.org/jobs sound?
<ChrisWoollard> That should do it. :D
<godbyk> I tried to be as clear as possible. :)
<ChrisWoollard> It is probably so obvious that people won't see it
<c7p> should we add also editors, writters to the job list ? Natty release is near
<c7p> ChrisWoollard: haha
<ChrisWoollard> As we have Jenkins here, maybe he could review the quickshot job description
<ChrisWoollard> c7p: do you have the link?
<c7p> hm just a moment
<godbyk> If we get some Quickshot developers on board, we'll need to be able to send them to jenkins or flan or someone to get them started.
<godbyk> jenkins: Will you be able to help new developers get up to speed?
<ChrisWoollard> I'll mail Ben and the Linux Outlaws people about the jobs
<jenkins> I can't explain the code very much faln did most/ all of it
<c7p> oh no ! typewithme removed all pads !
<jenkins> I can explain the theory and release syetem
<ChrisWoollard> [action] Chris Woollard to mail Ben and Linux outlaws for marketing
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Chris Woollard to mail Ben and Linux outlaws for marketing
<ChrisWoollard> maybe they get aged out on that site
<ChrisWoollard> anything else or next topic
<c7p> 3/12/2011 - Typewith.me experienced a database crash. We are  currently working on restoring old pads to a seperate site, and will  post a link if and when that data becomes available!
<c7p> next topic
<godbyk> I haven't had a change to do anything with docbook yet.  I'll take another stab at that this week.
<godbyk> s/change/chance/g
<ChrisWoollard> ok
<ChrisWoollard> np
<ChrisWoollard> new contributors?
<ChrisWoollard> anything for that?
<ChrisWoollard> [topic] New Contributors
<MootBot> New Topic:  New Contributors
<ChrisWoollard> ?
<c7p> that's relevant to the previous topic
<ChrisWoollard> we probably covered all that
<ChrisWoollard> next
<c7p> yes
<ChrisWoollard> [topic] Docbook
<MootBot> New Topic:  Docbook
<ChrisWoollard> [action] Godbyk to continue investigating
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Godbyk to continue investigating
<ChrisWoollard> [topic] 11.04 writing
<MootBot> New Topic:  11.04 writing
<ChrisWoollard> Godbyk
<godbyk> Yes?
<ChrisWoollard> weren't you going to branch 10.10?
<godbyk> I can, yeah.
<godbyk> Are we effectively at a writing freeze there?  (i.e., is it a good time to branch, or should I wait?)
<ChrisWoollard> at least then we can say to people that we can review and update the text
<godbyk> Or should we wait until we've made a decision re: docbook?
<ChrisWoollard> I don't know.
<ChrisWoollard> There was an item to the mailing list about collaborating more with the doc team
<godbyk> Yeah, it's still sitting in my inbox. I want to write Phil back.
<godbyk> I'm always up for collaboration.
<godbyk> Our last conversation just kind of petered out, I think.
<ChrisWoollard> Does anybody have views on branching now or waiting until maverick is complete?
<ChrisWoollard> Actually
<ChrisWoollard> Lets defer until next meeting.
<godbyk> Okay.
<ChrisWoollard> If we can get the screenshots going in the next 2 weeks, that might help us
<godbyk> I'll have a better idea as far as docbook goes by then.
<c7p> yes
<ChrisWoollard> [action] Defer 11.04 branch until next meeting. Pending screenshot work and docbook review
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Defer 11.04 branch until next meeting. Pending screenshot work and docbook review
<ChrisWoollard> [topic] Any Other Business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any Other Business
<ChrisWoollard> does anybody have anything?
<godbyk> Nothing from me.
<c7p> i have
<c7p> i said it to the previous meeting also
<c7p> what is it going with translations ? maverick is available for translation
<ChrisWoollard> What was that? I forget
<c7p> have you looked upon removing the option of translating it ?
<ChrisWoollard> Don't we have to wait for the writing freeze first
<godbyk> c7p: I haven't done anything with translations.  Do you have permissions to modify the settings?  If so, I'd say just jump in and fix it.
<c7p> godbyk i don't have permission
<godbyk> c7p: Okay. Do you know what the settings *should* be?  If so, let me know and I'll try to fix them.
<c7p> nope :( i don't know
<ChrisWoollard> You need to be in the Manual Project Admins Team i think
<ChrisWoollard> Incidentally I am not in that either ;)
<c7p> haha
<godbyk> Really?!
<godbyk> Well, I can fix that!
<ChrisWoollard> Thanks
<c7p> godbyk the fixer ! :D
<ChrisWoollard> thanks
<ChrisWoollard> Anything else
<godbyk> Okay, ChrisWoollard and c7p: Welcome to the Ubuntu Manual Admins team.
<godbyk> (Whatever that entails.)
<godbyk> Go forth and make things right.
<godbyk> Don't be evil.
<godbyk> And don't forget to pay your dues. ;-)
<c7p> cool :p
<c7p> lol, ok anything else ?
<ChrisWoollard> Any Other Any Other Business?
<godbyk> Nothing from me.
<ChrisWoollard> [topic] Next Meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Next Meeting
<ChrisWoollard> 2 Weeks?
<c7p> yes
<godbyk> Works for me.
<jenkins> I will do my best to be there
<ChrisWoollard> Does anybody feel like organising it?
<ChrisWoollard> i.e. Sorting out the notes / mailing list / doodle etc
<c7p> i can
<ChrisWoollard> Lovely.
<c7p> but one thing
<ChrisWoollard> yes
<c7p> please add items to the agenda guys :) we are an open project
<c7p> that's it
<ChrisWoollard> [action] All Team Members - Add agenda items if you have a point to make
<MootBot> ACTION received:  All Team Members - Add agenda items if you have a point to make
<ChrisWoollard> :)
<c7p> xD nice
<godbyk> And then be sure to attend that meeting so you can present your agenda items.
<godbyk> ('cause if I'm running the meeting and you've added an agenda item, I may not know what you were thinking about when you wrote it.)
<ChrisWoollard> Also, Does anybody want to write up the minutes for the wiki?
 * jenkins is getting there on bug #691511
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 691511 in quickshot "Crash after pressing screenshot submit button" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/691511
<ChrisWoollard> Okay, fair enough. I will write up the minutes.
<ChrisWoollard> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 16:17.
<jenkins> thanks ChrisWoollard
<c7p> good job ChrisWoollard
<ChrisWoollard> np
<c7p> it was nice to see you jenkins after some months :)
<godbyk> Yeah, thanks for coming, jenkins!
<godbyk> Did you guys see this? http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/03/new-gwibber-user-guide-makes-mastering-social-networking-in-ubuntu-easy/
<jenkins> thanks, I will try to hang around a bit more
<ChrisWoollard> Jenkins: Can you write me a brief overview on quickshot. what it does, why it is so great, and maybe how to use it.
<c7p> godbyk: interesting
<jenkins> I will work on it ChrisWoollard, probably starting with how to use it
<ChrisWoollard> I know you showed me a bit. but it didn't really help me understand it
<jenkins> np I will endevor to create some instructions
<ChrisWoollard> I want to try and get more people to understand it.
<jenkins> makes sensecurrently there are 2 people who know how to me and faln
<ChrisWoollard> It seems that screenshots are the main hold up at the moment for the maverick manual
<jenkins> :( sorry my fauk
<jenkins> *fault
<ChrisWoollard> Not totally. We as a team have neglected that side of things. So don't really know anything obout quickshot.
<ChrisWoollard> So, with any luck we can change that. and get us going again :)
<ChrisWoollard> On a seperate note. How are you? It has been a long time since you have been seen.
<jenkins> I haev been nipping in and out quite alot, but i am good my placement is going well. Running a scout section is by biggested time consumer
<jenkins> *by far
 * jenkins should haev checked that
<ChrisWoollard> Scouts... As in.... dib dib dib
<jenkins> yes
<ChrisWoollard> cool.
<jenkins> its good I have been doing it for year
<jenkins> s
<jenkins> but came back home for placement as my local one was falling apart
<jenkins> so been working hard to recover it
<ChrisWoollard> That is really good.
<jenkins> you been up to much
<ChrisWoollard> Not too much. I have been working on the Ubuntu Manual, I bit on the Developer Manual + my own life.
<ChrisWoollard> I haven't had that much time recently.
<jenkins> cool, lets hope we can get the manul going again
<ChrisWoollard> i hope so.
<c7p> ChrisWoollard, godbyk: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UMP-Editor-Writter
<c7p> a description for the editors and authors, make any proper modifications, corrections
<c7p> it's not the one that you 've written -database is down- but it resembles
<c7p> you can check it, correct it and add it to job list too
<c7p> i g2g good evening
<jenkins> night all
<ChrisWoollard> g'night
#ubuntu-manual 2012-03-10
<JoseGutierrez> I would like to explain how to collaborate in the project manual ubuntu, in Spanish, since I wrote to the list and I was told it was by launchpad, but still not to contribute to this great project, thanks for your timely responses.
#ubuntu-manual 2013-03-04
<CarstenG> Hi Hannie
<hannie> hey CarstenG
<hannie> Is the German translation almost finished?
<CarstenG> Last time I wanted only to mention that we have now finished the German translation of precise
<hannie> ah, there is your answer :)
<CarstenG> Yeah, we are now in review phase.
<hannie> I still do not see our Dutch translation in USC. I asked for it more than a month ago
<CarstenG> I hope that we can publish it before 13.04...
<hannie> I am glad we now have translations in French, Dutch, German (almost), Greek (When?)
<hannie> Russian and Slovenian should follow
<CarstenG> slovenian is already published, or?
<hannie> Is it? I am not sue
<CarstenG> and in the Greek version are the screenshots missing
<hannie> *sure
<CarstenG> malaysian version has missing screenshots too.
<hannie> I haven't heard from Malay translation team for a while
<hannie> Do you think they need any help with the screenshots?
<CarstenG> I don't know...
<CarstenG> I'm not sure, what we discussed last time, when someone from the Malaysian team was here...
<hannie> ok, I am trying to find the contact from the team in my emails
<hannie> I only just arrived in France, and I still have to copy files from cloud/stick etc.
<CarstenG> Are you in vacation in France?
<hannie> No, I live here most part of the year
<CarstenG> Ah, nice.
<CarstenG> Where exactly, if it's allowed to ask?
<hannie> In the Lot area
<CarstenG> Near Cahors...
<hannie> Yes, we live close to Cahors
<hannie> The temperature here is at least 10 degrees higher :)
<CarstenG> Sounds good. Here in Germany the spring begins now, we have around 10 degrees.
<hannie> Oh, I forgot to mention the Spanish translation. I think it is published too
<CarstenG> Yes.
<hannie> That makes an impressive list.
<hannie> It won't be long until the editing phase for Raring begins. John is doing the coordination for the authors, I do the editors' coordination
<hannie> And you do the screenshots
<hannie> coordination
<CarstenG> yes, I just started with some draft screenshots...
<hannie> And I saw you also did some bugs
<CarstenG> beside of the translation review of German... :-)
<hannie> do you review in LP, or offline (pdf?)
<CarstenG> I hope, you mean, I fixed some bugs ;-)
<CarstenG> In PDF.
<hannie> yeah, fixed them, not make them :)
<CarstenG> It's better reading without the LaTeX stuff..
<hannie> True, but in LP you can make corrections online (if you are a member of the translation team)
<CarstenG> Sure, if we find some mistakes, we fix it on LP.
<CarstenG> And, yes, since Saturday I'm a full member of the translation team. :-)
<hannie> Congratulations!
<hannie> See you again, I'm back to work now
<CarstenG> Ok, see you
#ubuntu-manual 2013-03-06
<hannie> hi CarstenG
<CarstenG> Hi Hannie
<hannie> If you have a few minutes, I need your help
<CarstenG> Sure
<CarstenG> I try my best :-)
<hannie> I have installed Virtual Box and want to install Raring. But I do not get internet connection when trying to install within VB. Any idea?
<hannie> I have googled for an answer, but to no avail (yet)
<hannie> When I open Firefox in Raring, it cannot load webpages because there is no connection
<CarstenG> mmmh
<hannie> Could it be VB, or Raring?
<CarstenG> I don't have Virtual Box in use.
<hannie> ah, I thought you had
<CarstenG> I use QEMU
<hannie> I might try that one. Are you happy with it?
<CarstenG> And there internet was working out of the box.
<CarstenG> Well, it works. :-)
<hannie> Ok, I can try to use that.
<hannie> Will let you know what the result is...........
<CarstenG> There is one thing I did not yet solved...
<hannie> and that is?
<CarstenG> When I want to make a screenshot from the host system of the QEMU window, I have manually scale the QEMU window to the right size to get 768x 1024 pixel...
<CarstenG> And this is a bit stupid.
<CarstenG> I'm looking for a setting where I can define the size of the window.
<hannie> Ah. I remember I had problems with pixels in emulated Quantal in VB as well
<hannie> It switched to other resolution without letting me know
<CarstenG> But this is maybe a general question for window managers, not for QEMU or VB...
<hannie> I will try to install qemu and let you know when I have done it
<CarstenG> Nice.
<CarstenG> I have also a question:
<CarstenG> Could you please have a look to http://ubuntuone.com/6E3PLypVgAhGx6AQwAXdrE (German draft version of precise) and tell me what you think of this links to Launchpad.
<CarstenG> So one can jump very quickly to the right string in LP.
<CarstenG> for review and fixes.
<CarstenG> Ok, I have to leave. See you later...
#ubuntu-manual 2013-03-07
<hannie> hi vibhav
<hannie> I am currently reading your email about lp branch
<CarstenG> Hi Hannie :-)
<CarstenG> Thanks for your reply to my question yesterday.
<CarstenG> I just try to improve it a bit, so that the links are working in the glossary and index as well...
<hannie> hey CarstenG
<hannie> I think you are doing a great job.
<CarstenG> Thanks :-) Maybe we could implement this script for further translation drafts...
<hannie> yes, I would most certainly like to use it for the Dutch translation of 14.04
<CarstenG> Well, I hope to get it ready for 13.04 as well. :-)
<hannie> sure
<CarstenG> Or do you plan to translate only the LTS versions?
<hannie> Yes, since we have only 2 translators. The other only want to translate the GUI
<CarstenG> ah, ok
<hannie> But the French will most certainly translate 13.04, and the German, Russiioan, Slovenian, Spanish teams
<hannie> *russian
<CarstenG> German... we will see :-)
<hannie> It is a lot of work, so it depends on the number of translators in a team
<CarstenG> First we have to finish the 12.04.
<hannie> When will that be?
<CarstenG> and reviewers...
<hannie> Yes, reviewers are just as important
<CarstenG> well, Daniel is now at page 63 with review..
<hannie> Oops!
<hannie> Schury?
<CarstenG> Yes
<CarstenG> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGermanTranslators/UbuntuManual
 * vibhav waves at hannie 
<hannie> Hi vibhav Glad you are active in the team again
<hannie> CarstenG, that is a beautiful page
<hannie> I will send you a link to mine in a minute
<vibhav> I was always active anyway :)
<CarstenG> Thanks, Daniel created it. :-)
<CarstenG> Hi Sylvie.
<hannie> hey, look who is here! Hi cqf
<vibhav> It is just that I start working in the project after ui freeze
<cqfd93> Hi Hannie and Carsten!
<hannie> vibhav, true, but if you are also an author you might start to have a look at what's new in Raring
<vibhav> Yes, I will soon start on March 20
<vibhav> I added some bugs to software management
<hannie> you can fix them if you like
<vibhav> Sut
<vibhav> Sure*
<vibhav> Mt exams will end of 20 match and by then I will start :)
<vibhav> My*
<vibhav> S/of/on/
<hannie> Nice! Success with your exams. That is priority no 1
<vibhav> Thanks =)
<hannie> Got to go. See you all
<vibhav> Same here
<vibhav> Good night  team
<CarstenG> see you
#ubuntu-manual 2013-03-08
<vibhav> Good Morning
#ubuntu-manual 2013-03-10
<CarstenG> Hi John
<CarstenG> c7p: What's going on with the Greek translation of the precise version?
<c7p> hey
<c7p> it's finished and we have 2 people proofreading it
<c7p> due to lack of free time from members, and maybe lack of interest/motivation it takes so long
<c7p> in 30 mins we have a meeting for the proofreading and what else remains to finish the manual
<CarstenG> great :-)
<CarstenG> We are in the German team also in proofreading for precise...
<c7p> but for the fact that it went slow, i think the work is quite qualitative
<c7p> nice !
<c7p> how many people are working on the German manual ?
<CarstenG> We are 3.
<c7p> good
<CarstenG> I guess almost the half is done...
<CarstenG> And at the moment I'm writing a script for generating a PDF with links to every entry on Launchpad...
<c7p> sounds interesting
<c7p> CarstenG: i guess the use of it is during the proofreading process right ?
<CarstenG> Yes, thats the idea.
<c7p> great great :D
