#ubuntu-meeting 2005-08-15
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Seveas] : Agendas: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas | Calendar: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ | 11 Aug 22:00 UTC: Doc Team | 16 Aug 12:00 UTC: Community Council | 24 Aug 20:00 UTC: MOTU | ? ??? ??:00 UTC: Tech Board
<Kader_Turko> hi?
<Kader_Turko> =)
<ajmitch> hello, this channel is just used for meetings :)
<ajmitch> question, support, etc are in #ubuntu
<Kader_Turko> ow, thnxz =)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:JaneW] : Agendas: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas | Calendar: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ | 10Aug 12:00UTC: Edubuntu Update | 11 Aug 22:00 UTC: Doc Team | 16 Aug 12:00 UTC: Community Council | 24 Aug 20:00 UTC: MOTU | ? ??? ??:00 UTC: Tech Board
<LondonAndrew1> rehi
<LondonAndrew1> losing my connection every 20 minutes at the moment. Argh
<Seveas> ouch
<JaneW> ***Reminder*** Edubuntu Update Meeting in 15 minutes in #ubuntu-meeting
<JaneW> hi
<LondonAndrew1> hi
<JaneW> :)
<ogra> hi
<JaneW> ok is anyone here for the edubuntu meeting?
<LondonAndrew1> *hands up*
<JaneW> LondonAndrew1: good, just like our logo ;)
<JaneW> p.s. are you really drewling? ;)
<ogra> it couls be that i have to run out for a minute or two.... the baker is arriving soon here to bring my bread....
<JaneW> ogra: lol - OK
<JaneW> your village sounds very quaint
<ogra> dont laugh.... its 20km to the next baker... and my GF is gone for 2 weeks 
<JaneW> ok, ogra the main focus for the first part of the meeting is where we are with the development...
<LondonAndrew1> 2 weeks, will you survive?
<JaneW> (shame, poor thing!)
<ogra> hehe.... i guess so :)
<JaneW> (not being totally sarcastic btw)
<ogra> ok, do we start with the meeting ? 
<JaneW> anyway without the development all the other stuff is irrelevant
<JaneW> mdz was not happy with progress
<JaneW> in our last meeting
<JaneW> have things improved?
<ogra> i updated the http://edubuntu.org/EdubuntuOneDotZeroRoadmap 
<ogra> to relflect what has been done now...
<JaneW> note to all our feature freeze is tomorrow (11 Aug)
<JaneW> opening...
<JaneW> btw is there an agreed deadline time?
<ogra> i just shrunk the main inclusion reports page ....
<JaneW> how far are the reports now?
<ogra> since it talked about binarys, not source packages... looks way better now
<JaneW> it sounds like corey has been really helpful with those...
<ogra> its just a matter of time to complete the rest.... i'll make it tomorrow shortly before the deadline... it includes all dependencys now, so there shouldnt be any surprises
<ogra> yes, corey was very helpful
<ogra> my biggest prob this week was to make tzhe mediawiki packages "right" to not have to have two versions of php or two SQL servers installed... we have a mediawiki package that can do php5 and postgresql... (which are the two tools we use for all other stuff too)
<ogra> (its unique in the linux world like this....)
<JaneW> is media wiki ok now?
<ogra> not completely... but i'll upload the package today... bugfixing will have to go on
<ogra> but thats ok with the policy... the most important fact is to have a package ready before tomorrow
<ogra> and not to add new features
<JaneW> ok, the main includion reports - do you need more help, or are they taken care of?
<ogra> so even if they are broken... they must be there
<JaneW> ok...
<ogra> i think corey is a bit busy with real life... i can need any help i can get
<JaneW> do you still have issues with pitti? You siad it was up to him to approve some stuff?
<ogra> but worst i'll do them alone... the list is really small now
<JaneW> can anyone else help ogra with main inclusion reports? Please.
<ogra> yes, gcompris will be the base for a discussion... i'm sure
<ogra> but thats a thing between pitti any myself...
<JaneW> ogra: since that's a high priority item, when will we know if it's approved or not?
<ogra> and a matter of how many pizza i send him to ignore stuff *g*
<JaneW> send lots!
<ogra> if pitti has the time to look at it
<JaneW> hmmm, how likely is that?
<ogra> its out of our hands once the reports are finished
<JaneW> he's prolly swamped with loads of requests atm...
<ogra> since he is the one to approve
<JaneW> ok, how can we get the reports finished asap?
<ogra> most of them he will just wave through....
<JaneW> that seems to be in the critical path right now
<JaneW> I hope you are right
<ogra> as i said, i'll do them tomorrow... i dont see it critical
<JaneW> you sure?
<ogra> since the inclusion wont happen tomorrow... and pitti has no time either....
<JaneW> matt is far less relaxed about this deadline that you are ;)
<ogra> its a ting that may happen during the next week
<ogra> yes, but what should i do ? i wont speed up the process now....
<ogra> we had no chance to test or work on the CD until last week...
<ogra> the reports will be ready tomorrow... more i cant do...
<JaneW> ok
<JaneW> is that x problem fixed yet?
<ogra> JaneW, imagine that i have to do other distro work thats unrelated to edubuntu or goals... thta underlies the freeze too
<ogra> nope
<ogra> not in a state that we'll have a installable ltsp yet
<JaneW> ogra: I do understand that, I really do
<ogra> some dependencys are missing... daniels told me we'll have a new upload soon
<ogra> so with luck that X problem is fixed tomorrow...
<ogra> (with luck... i gave up to predict X fixing dates)
<JaneW> ogra: but matt is anxious to see some concrete progress, and I think if we weren't bound to delivery on this, he may have been tempted to defer
<JaneW> ogra: ;)
* mhz cheers ogra up! (and is willing to test and report)
<JaneW> mhz: :))
<JaneW> ogra: I understand ow you must feel *I* feel like I have been hit by a bus myself....
<ogra> yes, he should calm down... we'll have it done for preview with a whole month of testing..... breezy bugs will be fixed in breezy anyway... 
<JaneW> ogra: ok I'm gonna trust you that you that it will all resolve in the end...
<ogra> so the stuff to do once its ready will be a fairly small amount of changes...
<JaneW> besides getting anxious doesn't help anyway
<ogra> ok... i have one seed change proposal mdz would have to approve....
<ogra> (lets do some real business... )
<JaneW> ok
<ogra> audacity was included as a sound sample editor... it has a dependency on wxgtk2.4  
<JaneW> ok
<ogra> we dont like to support the 2.4 version of this library
<ogra> and 2.6 is already out...
<ogra> but audacity cant work with 2.4
<JaneW> you mean without?
<ogra> so my proposal is to replace audacity with gnusound
<ogra> err, nope, i meant 2.6, but similar ;)
<JaneW> ok, does it make much difference?
<JaneW> using gnusound?
<ogra> nope... just that all dependencys for gnusound are already in main... its trivial
<JaneW> ok, do you anticipate any objection from mdz?
<ogra> he didnt like the idea of sound editing at all
<ogra> but beyond that... nope
<JaneW> lol
<JaneW> ok
<JaneW> I
<JaneW> ll send him a mail...
<ogra> great :)
<ogra> if he wants us to drop it completely i'd be fine too.... sound in ltsp is still an issue...
<ogra> so it would be interesting only for the workstation install, except mdz solves the sound issues...
<ogra> which is unlikely to happen in breezy time
<JaneW> I'll let you know how he responds
<ogra> or put me on cc
<JaneW> ok the issues we had last time
<JaneW> mediwiki, gcompris, x, classroom tool
<JaneW> where are we on each
<JaneW> mediawiki fixed, but need sto be approved?
<JaneW> gcompris need pitti to approve?
<ogra> and the package isnt completed yet... it'll be ready tonight
<ogra> mediawiki^^
<Kamion> X should be fixed at next cron.daily, with the exception of amd64
<ogra> gcompris installable...
<ogra> X as i said above.... 
<ogra> and as Kamion says
<Kamion> I'm keeping an eye on it and hurrying through as much as I can
<ogra> classroom tool is running out of time, but i'll make sure we'll have it in universe
<ogra> for the classroom tool i had no chance to test it in a real ltsp setup until last weekend... there are issues where dont know if they can be solved easily...
<JaneW> Kamion: great thanks
<ogra> but i preferred to finish mediawiki first and the ltsp testing is quite time consuming... additionally it blockas all my HW i have around, so i cant do anything else during atest
<JaneW> ogra: what does that mean there'll be no classroom tool in the standard install?
<ogra> yup
<JaneW> erk...
<ogra> time was to short for real tests
<JaneW> is there nothing we can get in there quickly?
<JaneW> does tuXlabs use something?
<ogra> nothing that works with our implementation of ltap
<ogra> might be, but likely they modify files you shouldnt modify ... their scripts are quite intrusive
<JaneW> damn, this is not wonderful news, I imagine this is quite high on the list of required (or at least desired) tools
<ogra> the guadalinex tool juan promised me 3 times was never sent... but the put in on gnomefiles.org two weeks ago... its written in gambas which we wont have in main
<Kamion> GAMBAS?
<ogra> lets see what i can do... but it doesnt work at all currently...
<ogra> Kamion, yes :(
<Kamion> people are still writing in BASIC?
<ogra> Kamion, they promoted that tool a lot nd it has really nice features... but nobody told us about gambas...
<ogra> they ported from tcl/tk btw :)
<ogra> JaneW, the prob with such tools is that they are developed for a very special environment... ours is a complete new implementation of such a environment...
<ogra> so its not just "port this over" there are architectual differences you cant work around easily
<JaneW> ogra: ok
<JaneW> is php still a problem? 4 vs 5...
<ogra> i'll do my best to get something working in universe...
<Kamion> which one did you need? php5's in main now
<ogra> if my mediawiki packages are ready its not... we'll use php5 and postgresql
<JaneW> ogra: and the other pacakages, I thought you said a lot of them need php4...?
<ogra> Kamion, mediawiki isnt supposed to work with php4... i couldnt convince the debian mediawiki team to make their pkg depend on 5....
<ogra> additional the database is forced to mysql by them... i have postgres/php5 packages nearly done her
<ogra> JaneW, all sorted with this alst remaining package
<ogra> last even
<JaneW> ok great
<ogra> the server side looks pretty good already
<ogra> edubuntu-desktop is installable from universe since last weekend...
<ogra> as soon as all apps have moved to main it'll be good to go
<JaneW> :)
<Kamion> you should be able to test netboot installs if you boot with apt-setup/universe=true, plus the other Edubuntu preseeds that are on the CD
<ogra> yay
<JaneW> YAY
<ogra> Kamion, thanks for that :)
<Kamion> been there since warty ;)
<JaneW> ogra: that 'all' from your side?
<ogra> for now....
<JaneW> are you still ready for people to start testing away tomorrow?
<JaneW> please send a message to the mailing list to that effect if/when you are...
<ogra> hmm... with the option Kamion just pointed out we're ready NOW !
<JaneW> in that case start testing... NOW
<LondonAndrew1> :-o
<JaneW> ok so I guess we'll be needing documentation and artwork afterall ;)
<Kamion> you can't do all the preseeds easily on the kernel command line though
<Kamion> which makes it tricky
<ogra> please understand that i'll sedn the instructions for testing after the freeze... i'll have a 48h hacking session after this meeting ;)
<Kamion> hmm, let me see
<LondonAndrew1> a sprint
<ogra> yeah
<LondonAndrew1> you will need bread for that
<ogra> a small one :)
<JaneW> ogra: understood
<LondonAndrew1> and probably best to get rid of the girlfriend for a while
<ogra> LondonAndrew1, baker still missing ...
<JaneW> ogra: how do you want to receive feedback from the testing?
<JaneW> ogra: do we need a template?
<ogra> LondonAndrew1, as i said, she's away for 2 weeks :)
<ogra> JaneW, yup, that was my plan ... 
<LondonAndrew1> did you send away because of your commitment to edubuntu ;)
<ogra> i'll write one up after the freeze... and put it on the wiki
<JaneW> ogra: great thanks
<ogra> LondonAndrew1, nope, she's visiting her mother
<Kamion> I can't do the netcfg tweaks this way, but try booting a netboot install with preseed/url=http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/edubuntu/edubuntu.seed or preseed/url=http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/edubuntu/server.seed
<JaneW> ogra: do you want comments posted on the wiki or mailed?
<ogra> both ? 
<Kamion> note that using preseed files you don't control is INSECURE so please don't recommend that ordinary users do this
<ogra> or either of them... as long as the info reaches us
<ogra> Kamion, ordinary users shouldnt even test at this stage :)
<Kamion> (and it's untested)
<ogra> i'm aming for people that can test ltsp... which still requires manual work so far
<Kamion> (and it will take ages because you'll be fetching the entire world from the archive)
<ogra> not only the seeds ? 
<Kamion> netboot installs fetch everything from the archive, that's kind of the definition
<ogra> ouch
<Kamion> the only other alternative is to make cdimage be able to build CDs using universe, which I'm pretty resistant to doing because it has the potential to break mainline Ubuntu CDs in entertaining ways
<ogra> nah, dont do that
<ogra> we are down to 17 pending inclusion reports (from 35), most of them easily to approve... 
<ogra> so it wont be a biggie te get the remaining stuff in and i'm willing to change te seed for now to exclude our problematic ones and include them later again
<Kamion> X is rather happier now on i386/powerpc, see http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/testing/breezy_probs.html
<ogra> the only prob i had here were xkb stuff and a missing xinit...
<mhz> Kamion: your netinstall means XP loaded machines will be able to netinstall via LTSP ??
<Kamion> you shouldn't need to change the seed anyway, edubuntu-* should only depend on packages from main/restricted
<Kamion> components = ['main', 'restricted', 'universe'] 
<ogra> if these are solved and the autodetection works, X is done for me
<Kamion> ogra: gah, why did you do that?
<ogra> ?
<Kamion> that's explicitly asking for edubuntu-* to be uninstallable within main
<Kamion> edubuntu-meta/update
<ogra> yes...
<ogra> but the things *will* move
<Kamion> if that were just ['main', 'restricted'] , then edubuntu-* would be installable and you could update it as new components arrived in main
<ogra> nobody told me i'm restricted with the seed packages 
<Kamion> you aren't
<ogra> ah, yes... because i didnt expect this lag... the packages are about a month old...
<Kamion> yes, I updated recently
<ogra> havig a working X one day before freeze wasnt the plan i think
<Kamion> mhz: XP has nothing to do with it; it doesn't really interact much with LTSP, although the server install should bring up an LTSP server
<Kamion> there are many other things that could have been done while waiting for X (using workarounds such as installing two extra binary packages)
<ogra> hmm, has putty a X export function ? then we could make it work 
<mhz> Kamion: i know.. I meant, machines booting via PXE will be able to actually  netinstall instead of just using LTSP resources?
<Kamion> mhz: yes
<mhz> Kamion: coool!
<Kamion> ogra: putty can do X forwarding, yes
<ogra> Kamion, sure... i'm still learning... its my first own linux release i build... i know i'm responsible for much of this lag, but still i had no base to build on... 
<Kamion> mhz: there's a netboot.tar.gz in /ubuntu/dists/breezy/main/installer-i386/current/images/ or somewhere like that in the archive
<mhz> Kamion: if thatis so.. edubuntu is solving even more issues here on Chilean schools!
<ogra> and working around such probs is a matter of experience i dont have yet
<Kamion> unpack that onto somewhere a TFTP server can see, fiddle with the nightmare that is TFTP until the paths all work
<ogra> hmm, XP is lacking nfs support... that chould be a prob in the putti scenario...
<JaneW> ogra: part from feeling pressured and overworked are you happy we are on track?
<Kamion> ogra: I don't mean to run you down, just saying that X breakage which is just due to a couple of missing packages doesn't need to be a blocker
<JaneW> artwork - if anyone is still waiting...
<JaneW>  1. wallpaper, need volunteer to help with this.
<JaneW>  2. Edubuntu Mascot  JaneW will contact Sebastein Loss to see if he is willing to do an Edubutu version of his Ubuntu Mascot  http://sloss.free.fr/CCPapers.html, 'Breezy Goes to School'.
<JaneW>  3. splash screen, need volunteer to help with this.
<JaneW>  4. gdm theme, need volunteer to help with this.
<JaneW>  5. Jonathan to create a flying penguins edubuntu 'please wait' screen. - first version completed.
<JaneW>  6. Edubuntu web site artwork, need volunteer to help with this.
<JaneW> anyone want to do 1,2,4 or 6?
<LondonAndrew1> hello again
<JaneW> hello?
<ogra> Kamion, i know you dont want to run me down... but i'm realistic... about my doings... there is a log i'd have done different if i knew the processes...
<LondonAndrew1> I would like to take on 1, 3 and 6, but will have to confirm deadlines to double check
<LondonAndrew1> if its ok
<ogra> ...or the workarounds
<ogra> and i'm not happy at all  to make mdz unhappy
<JaneW> LondonAndrew1: go ahead, any input would be wonderful
<LondonAndrew1> what sort of dates
<LondonAndrew1> would the artwork be required by
<ogra> the deadline is on the breezy release schedule... wait a sec
<ogra> Sep 29th
<LondonAndrew1> ok that should be fine
<LondonAndrew1> Regarding the website artwork?
<LondonAndrew1> is that the design of the website
<ogra> that should be ready as well (at least in a preview version) at this date...
<ogra> we'll ship the preview CD from Sep 1st, so people will pay more attention form this date on...
<ogra> baker !!
<JaneW> ogra: when would our artwork deadline be? 29 Sept?
<JaneW> LondonAndrew1: the artwork deadline should be 29 Sept, same as the Ubuntu main artwork deadline (I seem to be horribly lagged - sorry about the disjointed discussion)
<LondonAndrew1> Jane - the website artwork, does this entail doing the design of the website etc? Does anyone have anymore info regarding what is required
<JaneW> LondonAndrew1: Jonathan (HoghVoltage) is getting a website set up... you can contact him wrt requirements for that. It should be ready in a week or 2
<JaneW> Highvoltage I mean
<LondonAndrew1> JaneW, okay thanks will do
<LondonAndrew1> JaneW, do you have an email address I can contact him by?
<mhz> I am currently working on a Moin version tuxLabs cookbook
<mhz> will that be usefull?
<JaneW> LondonAndrew1: see www.edubuntu.org he's on the contacts table near the bottom
<LondonAndrew1> JaneW - Thanks
<JaneW> LondonAndrew1: jonathan@shuttleworthfoundation.org
<JaneW> contender for the longest e-mail address in the world ;)
<LondonAndrew1> :)
<JaneW> mhz: yes of course
<ogra> JaneW, yes, for the distro artwork
<JaneW> ok anything else to discuss? The lag is killing us. Plus time's up.
<JaneW> Same time same place next week?
<ogra> mhz, we'll ship mediawiki... 
<ogra> mhz, will it work there too ?
<mhz> ogra: there should be a purser to do taht
<ogra> JaneW, sounds good... or probably a later time to get mdz in at least one meeting with us
<ogra> so he can point out his concerns
<LondonAndrew1> JaneW - okay dokes
<mhz> however, MY idea of wiki is to be able to syncronize /data among servers. That IS no possible in MediWiki (AFAIK)
<JaneW> ogra: hmm, ok, 22:00?
<ogra> UTC ?
<JaneW> yep
<ogra> ok with me
<JaneW> ok done
<JaneW> jsgotangco might make that - if he;s an early riser...
<ogra> mhz, with postgresql as backend you can solve it with a central SQL server 
<ogra> i.e. build clusters...
<mhz> ogra: yes...sounds possible
<mhz> ogra: but not for normal standard teachers
<ogra> mhz, depends on the tools you give them ;)
<mhz> hehehe
<mhz> true
<mhz> Kamion: please let me get this streight... I install Edubuntu in a HD, when it reboots it gets stuck by X server. (and I can't access to the machine because no ALT Fx's work, neither SSH to it)
<Kamion> mhz: being fixed
<Kamion> mhz: boot in recovery mode, apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade; that should probably sort it out
<mhz> so how do I set it up to let me install linux on clients with HD only and able to boot PXE
<mhz> you mention something about untaring  pkg into a /dir TFTP can access
<JaneW> ok, I have updated the meeting notes - not a heck of a lot this week.
<Kamion> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/breezy/main/installer-i386/current/doc/manual/en/ch04s05.html
<mhz> JaneW: thx
<JaneW> ogra: thanks for your time especially
<JaneW> and kamion :)
<mhz> ogra: thanks for these lot of extra efforts
<mhz> yeah ,that too
<mhz> :)
<ogra> yes, absolutely... thanks Kamion :)
<mhz> Kamion: that doc seems lot easier than some I had read
<mhz> :)
<ogra> mhz, you want a ltsp install, right ? 
<mhz> hehehe, ideally yes and if it Edubuntu... betta!
<ogra> so you should be fine with the next edubuntu CD build (tomorrow) if X installs fine then...
<mhz> ogra: thankz
<ogra> you just have to run ltsp-build-client after the installation and make sure you have a working network connection...
<ogra> additionally follow this howto: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThinClientHowto
<mhz> that sounds simple enough for this humble teacher :)
<ogra> the first steps of 1. are already done on the edubuntu Cd
<mhz> I always talk about FLOSS and Ubuntu and Moin using this XP laptop :(
<ogra> you only need the dhcp part....
<mhz> yesp
<ogra> then go on with 2.
<LondonAndrew1> :-o
<mhz> :)
<LondonAndrew1> I am currently sorting my spare room up
<LondonAndrew1> to have a little edubuntu network
<ogra> :)
<LondonAndrew1> its all exciting stuff
<LondonAndrew1> though a new world as I`m only a relatively recent switcher
<ogra> yup
<LondonAndrew1> to Linux and Ubuntu
<mhz> ogra: I know why we use MediWiki... another argument of why I am moining tuxlabs cookbook is because mobile users (PalmOne users, example) can't see Mediwiki as well as Moin
<ogra> aha
<mhz> LondonAndrew1: welcome back to the real world
<mhz> :)
<ogra> i cant change the committment to mediawiki, no need to convince me ;)
<mhz> LOL
<ogra> i would have preferred moin...
<mhz> I get it
<mhz> I have no commitment to MediWiki so... I can moin everything :)
<ogra> but our audience we had at the summit didnt... and mediawiki is the wikipedia wiki
<ogra> so if thats what the customer wants, he gets it
<mhz> plus, when I talk in Peru, I will talk about MoinMoin and Edubuntu. It will be nice to showoff Moin stuff (cookbook)
<ogra> moin is available as packge at least ... and even already in main iirc
<mhz> yep
<hno73> LondonAndrew1: I can help with the website stuff too (henrik@ubuntu.com)
<hno73> I think it was decided to use plone, which we already have a good skin for thatcan be tweaked
<LondonAndrew1> excellent
<LondonAndrew1> are there any mock ups yet
<LondonAndrew1> or any idea of what content we will be putting up
<hno73> LondonAndrew1: Some early ideas for the header here: http://www.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWiki
<LondonAndrew1> thanks have bookmarked
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:JaneW] : Agendas: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas | Calendar: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ |  11 Aug 22:00 UTC: Doc Team | 16 Aug 12:00 UTC: Community Council | 24 Aug 20:00 UTC: MOTU | ? ??? ??:00 UTC: Tech Board
<hno73> LondonAndrew1: if you email me I'll send some other images and ideas that I have
<LondonAndrew1> hno73 - will do now
<LondonAndrew1> hno73 - you have mail.
<mhz> shouldn't we get backt ot edubuntu?
<mhz> ogra: just FYI.. www.merten-home.de/FreeSoftware/media4moin
* mhz is away: Be back soon, I guess /  Vuelvo luego
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-08-16
* rob^ burps
<Burgundavia> lovely
<rob^> mmm weightwatchers chips
<rob^> dam wife
<jsgotangco> ok lets just make it a quickie
<mgalvin> lets get it on
<Burgundavia> sure
<jsgotangco> ok who's here
<ajmitch> docteam meeting, is it?
* jsgotangco Jerome Gotangco
<Burgundavia> might as well introduce a new member, Madpilot (my brother)
* mgalvin is Matt Galvin
<jsgotangco> ajmitch, yeah, just a quickie
<ajmitch> ok
* rob^ is Robert Stoffers
* ajmitch re-lurks
* Burgundavia is Corey Burger
* jeffsch is Jeff Schering
* Madpilot is Brian Burger
<jsgotangco> are you brothers?
<Burgundavia> yes
<rob^> man we could open our own burger shop here
<jsgotangco> alright, we'll have a quickie meeting 
<Madpilot> rob^: very original... ;)
<jsgotangco> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamMeetingAgenda isn't useful at the moment so let's make it free flowing
<rob^> mmm maccas
<Burgundavia> docteam projects?
<jsgotangco> any updates on your projects
<Burgundavia> mgalvin, rob^ faqguide?
<rob^> ok
<mgalvin> i started spliting it up into pieces to make it easier to work with
<mgalvin> a lot of the content is done
<jsgotangco> mgalvin, good idea
<rob^> I'm about to start 2 12 hours shifts in about 6 hours time. during which I'll have nothing to do
<rob^> my guess is at the end of those there wont me much left to do with the guide before release
<mgalvin> once i get my shinny new laptop i will verify the java install stuff for amd64 and will have all that java stuff worked out
* rob^ is effectivly being paid..
<jsgotangco> mgalvin, rob^ will we have enough time to proofread the doc before freeze?
<rob^> dam it I wish someone would buy me a laptop
<jeffsch> which parts of faqguide content still missing?
<rob^> jsgotangco, yes, it should be finished soon
<mgalvin> rob^: we should probably finishs splitting it up first to make this easier
<rob^> jeffsch, nothing really, just needs going over
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia, when is our freeze?
<Burgundavia> Sept 8
<mgalvin> i am buying my own laptop :(, i should have joined the laptop team
<Burgundavia> UI freeze is Aug 25th, so don't start taking screenshots before then
<jsgotangco> ok so we have less than a month to finalize  and qa the doc to be shipped
<rob^> mgalvin, which parts do you want then?
<rob^> yep
<mgalvin> what was that agenda page again?
<jsgotangco> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamMeetingAgenda
<rob^> as I said before, in the next two to three days I'm going to be giving the faq guide a lot of love
<jsgotangco> guys, this is only a lightning meeting, let's keep it quick so if it can be done via list, let's do it there
<rob^> it may be finished within a week maybe..
<Burgundavia> what are thoughts on faqguide as default Yelp homepage? we don't really have many other docs to ship
<rob^> I'm open to it
<jsgotangco> sure, but consider the other docs
<jsgotangco> Gnome docs
<rob^> thats right
<Burgundavia> they are old
<Burgundavia> and not really useful, to be honest
<jsgotangco> they're going to be included
<jsgotangco> unless they remove it in the default install
<jsgotangco> which is unlikely
<Burgundavia> they can be there, we just don't have to link to them
<rob^> who has the final say on it?
<Burgundavia> consensus
<mgalvin> are we going to grab the latest upstream gnome docs for inclusion?
<Burgundavia> there is nothing happening there
<mgalvin> they may be more up 2 date, although i have not looked yet so not sure
<Burgundavia> upstream gnome
<mgalvin> k
<jsgotangco> mgalvin, it should have gone during freeze, but nothing is happening in gnome doc
<mgalvin> right, ok
<jsgotangco> so in a way, Burgundavia is right, they are old docs
<Burgundavia> 2.6 is last major work
<jsgotangco> but that doesnt mean they're not useful anymore, just not updated :)
<rob^> that sucks
<Burgundavia> they will do more harm than good I think
<jsgotangco> i was looking into the help files of some gnome games last night and they are indeed old
<jsgotangco> pre 2.8
<rob^> maybe we can just have them listed under our docs in a smaller font etc..
<jeffsch> perhaps a request for help with the docs should be on the front page too :-)
<rob^> jeffsch, good idea
<Burgundavia> sure
<mgalvin> sounds good to me
<jsgotangco> sure but they are upstream docs in the first place
<Burgundavia> shall we move on and move this to the mailing list?
<rob^> probably
<mgalvin> yea
<Burgundavia> ok
<jeffsch> jsgotangco: doesn't matter... [eo[le don't have to help the doc team in order to help the docs
<jeffsch> er, um, people even
<Burgundavia> QuickTour: worked started at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuickTourDraft . Any comments are always welcome. See the todo at the bottom
<Burgundavia> jdub gave jsgotangco and myself good feedback last night
<mgalvin> cool, i think we definitely NEED this
<Burgundavia> going to nail down the structure and then move to svn
<jsgotangco> yeah i did a self brain dump on this last night
<rob^> it looks pretty good
<jsgotangco> i'm going to spam that wiki page later
<Burgundavia> ok
<rob^> wish we had if for our next installfest on software freedom day
<mgalvin> did anyone every hear from that person who was making that doc that looked like apples mac os x marking pages?
<jsgotangco> we can make it a printable pdf why not
<Burgundavia> should be ready in english
<rob^> it even..
<Burgundavia> Softare freedom is sept 10. All writing must be done by the 8th
<jsgotangco> About Ubuntu is in the bag and may just need some minor updating
<Burgundavia> edubuntu cookbook?
<jsgotangco> gyahh
<jsgotangco> ok this is a cram project at the moment
<rob^> yeah, but it will be for breezy, horay will still be the current released version then
<jsgotangco> the cookbook should have a visible structure by this week
<jsgotangco> and some important parts from tuXlab imported
<jsgotangco> other than than, we;ll wait for the preview CD
<jsgotangco> most of the contributors are educators anyways
<jsgotangco> and all ubuntu docs will go into edubuntu
<rob^> what is edubuntus target audence?
<rob^> primary school/high school kids?
<jsgotangco> learning environments in a networked lab
<rob^> I'm biting at the bit to try it out
<Burgundavia> any other projects?
<mgalvin> ubuntu-docs deb
<jsgotangco> packaging?
<mgalvin> did anyone see my email, yea?
<jsgotangco> i did
<jsgotangco> yeah
* rob^ checks
<jsgotangco> but packaging is not my forte
<mgalvin> i got it working already
<mgalvin> not committed yet
<jsgotangco> a deb file?
<mgalvin> yea
<jsgotangco> enrico is our debian and he is whitelisted to upload
<mgalvin> er, the rules and stuff
* ajmitch can check over any packaging stuff also
<rob^> holy crud you cut sick on the faq guide recently mgalvin 
<mgalvin> i didn't upload the package, i just modified the rules and such to make it work
<Burgundavia> mgalvin, you will work on that and chat with ajmitch if needed?
<mgalvin> sure
<Burgundavia> any further projects?
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> wait
<jsgotangco> so what is shippable at the moment
<mgalvin> rob^: i started splitting it up to make each section easier to work on
<jsgotangco> FAQ Guide
<jsgotangco> Quick Tour
<jsgotangco> About Ubuntu
<jsgotangco> Anything else?
<rob^> I haven't had time to look at it the last two days
<Burgundavia> is the faq guide profiled for kubuntu?
* mgalvin hopes he didn't stomp on any of rob^s work
<rob^> yes and no
<Burgundavia> has that been worked on?
<rob^> yes and no
<jsgotangco> wish we had the people working on kubuntu here as well
<rob^> I have a feeling the kubuntu faq guide wont be ready for breezy
<jsgotangco> might as well bug them on the list
<mgalvin> the profiling is there, we need to get the rest of the kubuntu content into the guide
<rob^> time will tell I guess
<mgalvin> there is not much kubuntu stuff in it atm
<jsgotangco> ok understandable they have not been active even lately
<rob^> mgalvin, will you be working on the faq guide in the next 48 hours?
<jsgotangco> wait
<jsgotangco> Style Guide
<jsgotangco> jeffsch?
<jeffsch> unless anybody has something to add to it, then it's done for now
<jsgotangco> have you proofread it already?
<jeffsch> after I do some editing on our current docs, I will have a better idea of what it should contain
<mgalvin> its almost time for bed here so feel free to go nuts on it... i may do a little tomorrow, but if you do a lot i will hold off a little
<jsgotangco> ok we can probably release the Style Guide to the world then?
<rob^> mgalvin, its just that I'm about to start 2 12hour shifts where I can work on it but I dont have access to svn to commit
<jeffsch> well, the docteam world, anyway :)
<jsgotangco> jeffsch, its ok at least we reached a milestone
<mgalvin> rob^: ok, i'll leave it alone for the next 48hrs, go nutz ;)
<rob^> only windows nt boxes and notepad
<rob^> thanks :)
<jsgotangco> so i guess we freeze styleguide for now and publish it?
<mgalvin> np
<jeffsch> jsgotangco: sure
<jsgotangco> alright anyone in favor of releasing the style guide
<mgalvin> is it alright with everyone if I commit the packaging changes i have for now
<rob^> yeah
<jsgotangco> ok anything more
<rob^> yes
<jsgotangco> i'll bug the list about the linode thing
<jsgotangco> seems to have stagnated
<jsgotangco> its in my ToDO anyeays
<rob^> whats the go with ubuntumagazine.com?
<jsgotangco> its still in flux on whoever is heading it
<rob^> zarul shahrin keeps bugging the list about it
<Madpilot> is that going to be a "real" printed mag, or an ezine/pdf thing?
<jsgotangco> we can't blame him, he seems to be eager about it but time will tell
<rob^> but he seems to know nothing about web authoring
<jsgotangco> let's wait and see
<mgalvin> Madpilot: he said it may go to print
<rob^> yeah
<rob^> well, if his paying :)
<mgalvin> on the web/pdf at first
<rob^> hes
<Madpilot> interesting...
<jeffsch> ok, are we done with the meeting?
<Burgundavia> ok, if there is nothing else, this meeting is done
<rob^> I'm happy
<jsgotangco> err
<jsgotangco> wrong channel
<jsgotangco> anything more
<jsgotangco> this is good for a quickie
<mgalvin> all set here
<jsgotangco> i'll just email the list
<jsgotangco> alright, thanks everyone
<Burgundavia> rob^, mgalvin one of you to want to email the list about yelp/front page?
<jsgotangco> next meeting, i'll juse send via email
<rob^> operating-joke.png?
<jsgotangco> rob^, cookbook
<rob^> yeah
<jsgotangco> its a fun book
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Burgundavia] : Agendas: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas | Calendar: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/  | 16 Aug 12:00 UTC: Community Council | 24 Aug 20:00 UTC: MOTU | ? ??? ??:00 UTC: Tech Board |  25  Aug 14:00 UTC: Doc Team
<rob^> just doing a svn up now
<Burgundavia> that correct?
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Burgundavia] : Agendas: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas | Calendar: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/  | 16 Aug 12:00 UTC: Community Council | 24 Aug 20:00 UTC: MOTU | ? ??? ??:00 UTC: Tech Board | 25  Aug 14:00 UTC: Doc Team
<jsgotangco> 14:00UTC
<mgalvin> rob^: can you take that, i gotta commit this stuff and hit the hay
<jsgotangco> ok that's 12PM on mine
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Burgundavia] : Agendas: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas | Calendar: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/  | 16 Aug 12:00 UTC: Community Council | 24 Aug 20:00 UTC: MOTU | ? ??? ??:00 UTC: Tech Board | 25 Aug 14:00 UTC: Doc Team
<rob^> mgalvin, ok np
<Burgundavia> sorry about the spam
<jsgotangco> but horrible on rob^ 's side
<Burgundavia> 14:00 is 7 am for me
<rob^> 1400z is 2am here
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> see
<Burgundavia> we cannot satisfy everybody
<Burgundavia> edubuntu meetings are at 12:00 utc
<rob^> no wait..
<rob^> 10am is 1200z
<rob^> 10am + 14 hrs
<rob^> midnight
<Burgundavia> ok, lets get of -meeting
<jsgotangco> ok adjourned
<rob^> i dunno
<rob^> nah it 2am
* rob^ is dumb
<jsgotangco> its 2am
<jsgotangco> 14UTC is midnight for me
<ajmitch> rob^: nz?
<rob^> au
<ajmitch> then it'd be midnight, I'd say
<ajmitch> since nz is utc+12
* rob^ is tired
<rob^> yeah your right
<rob^> 10am + 14hrs is midnight
<Burgundavia> guys, the log is filling up
<Madpilot> there are good time-conversion websites out there - there may even be something lurking in Ubuntu repos...
<ajmitch> apologies, I thought the meeting was over
<Burgundavia> it is, but this channel is logged all the time
* mhz is back (gone 12:10:02)
* mhz is away: Be back soon, I guess /  Vuelvo luego
<Burgundavia> mhz, please turn that off
* mhz is back (gone 00:02:03)
<mhz> what do you want me to turn off?
<ajmitch> the away notifications
<mhz> I can do that. why are they "not permitted"?
<mhz> or annoying
<Burgundavia> they are very annoying
<Burgundavia> and they fill the logs
<mhz> ok, no idea they were annoying
<mhz> I'll try to kepp that on mind while I am here
<Burgundavia> turn it off in #edubutu as well
<Treenaks>     * 
<Treenaks> oops
<jjesse> did i miss the meeting again?
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Seveas] : Agendas: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas | Calendar: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/  | 16 Aug 12:00 UTC: Community Council | 23? Aug ??:?? UTC Tech Board | 24 Aug 20:00 UTC: MOTU | 25 Aug 14:00 UTC: Doc Team
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:robitaille] : Agendas: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas | Calendar: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/  | 16 Aug 12:00 UTC: Community Council | 17 Aug 14:00 UTC: Doc Team | 23? Aug ??:?? UTC Tech Board | 24 Aug 20:00 UTC: MOTU | 25 Aug 14:00 UTC: Doc Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-08-17
<cyphase> hey everyone
<Treenaks> hi cyphase 
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-08-18
<cyphase> hey everyone
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-08-20
<ondrej> hi all, is this place where Community Council meeting happens?
<smurfix> ondrej: Yes, but that is tomorrow 12:00 UTC. See the topic.
<ondrej> I know, but I was not able to find this info on web, so I am asking before that time :-)
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-08-21
<ploum> Which it is currently in UTC ?
<robitaille> date -u
<robitaille> Tue Aug 16 07:32:19 UTC 2005
<ploum> robitaille, thx :-)
<Virtuall> is 12:00 UTC after 15 mins or am I wrong? :)
<ondrej> mm all
<ajmitch> hi ondrej 
<ploum> Virtuall : it is 11h45 UTC, AFAIK
<Virtuall> good then
<Virtuall> :)
<Nafallo> yay swedes! :-)
<jjesse> is this the community meeting?
<Seveas> jjesse, it will be in 5 minutes
<Mitario> it's due to begin in 5 minutes :)
<Nafallo> jjesse: in 5 minuted it should be :-)
<jjesse> i just didn't want to miss it like i did the other ones :(
<rbelem> Nafallo, ogra: hey...
<Nafallo> rbelem: morning :-)
<minux> So, I may be in here if I shut up?
<Seveas> sure
<ogra> hey rbelem 
<rbelem> Nafallo, morning ,-)
<minux> Seveas: :)
<Nafallo> rbelem: ahh, nice! starting a team already :-D
<rbelem> ogra, morning :-)
<ogra> doesnt look like we have any CC member here
<Mithrandir> heh
<ogra> which is bad if new memebers shall get approval
<gothcat> *lol*
<Seveas> it'll be a short meeting then :)
<rob^> which meeting is it?
<Seveas> CC
<mako> greetings everyone
<ogra> rob^, CC
<Seveas> welcome mako
<ajmitch> hi mako 
<\sh> hey mako
<rob^> k
<Seveas> that's one - only 3 to go :)
<ajmitch> ogra: how many CC members are needed?
<ogra> 3
<Seveas> ajmitch, min. 3 to get a majority
<rbelem> Nafallo, a team?
<ajmitch> right..
<mako> it shouldn't be hard to get the others
* mako is going to make coffee
<ondrej> hi seb128, hi mako
<Simira> oi
<Seveas> hi Simira 
<Nafallo> rbelem: BrazilTeam, you _are_ RodrigoBelem, right? :-)
<Simira> I accidentally made a cc-meeting!
<seb128> Hi ondrej
<rbelem> Nafallo, yeah ;)
<Seveas> Simira, no it's already over
<Nafallo> Simira: hehe, *hug*
<gothcat> Simira: hi!
<Seveas> </just_kidding>
<Simira> Seveas : hey, I know the clock, you know :p
<rbelem> Nafallo, Ian Lawrence and me started the team
<Simira> but I can go have lunch instead...
<rbelem> Nafallo, he gone to ubuntu conf in spain
<Seveas> 14:00 sharp now
<Seveas> Hello everybody, the CC meeting will start in a few minutes. All member candidates please prepare a 3 line intro about what you did for Ubuntu so far, what your plans are and what your vision for Ubuntu is. Everybody who has an item in the agenda (http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda) also prese prepare what you want to say in a few lines and wait for your turn. Please remember to stay on-topic and to take other discussion
<Seveas> s to other channels. \end{publicserviceannouncement}
<rob^> Seveas, is it too late now?
<Seveas> s/prese/please/ (/me gets coffee too)
<Seveas> rob^, just wait, the meeting will start as soon as the CC members are here
<rob^> Seveas, to nominte for membership
<Seveas> the agenda should no longer be changed now
<ogra> Seveas, ah, come on
<ogra> i think its ok as long as the meeting didnt start
<Seveas> true
<mako> yeah, it's fine
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MoritzBreit
* mako is still making coffee
<ogra> impressive
<ajmitch> mako: I hope it's decent coffee then
<mbreit> orga: thanks! ;)
<ogra> :)
<ajmitch> mbreit: nice wiki page :)
<mbreit> ajmitch: thanks
<rob^> done
<\sh> hmmm...
<siretart> hi :)
<mako> ajmitch: a moka
<mvo> mbreit: pingus? *yum*
<mbreit> mvo: fixed gcc4 issues... so it works again in breezy
<mvo> mbreit: great! /me likes pingus
* Seveas too
<Seveas> (said like a true pingu)
<\sh> hmm...need a quick smoke...
* ogra watches north to see the smoke signals from \sh 
<Seveas> does ho smoke such bad cigars?
<ogra> heh... the cheap ones...
<Treenaks> Seveas: Look to the southeast.. you might see him too
<Seveas> Treenaks, I;m looking to the east and see smoke, what are you doing? ;)
<Seveas> s/east/west/
<Treenaks> Seveas: So that's where the barbecue smell is coming from...
<rob^> mmm doritos and coffee
<Seveas> hmm, barbecue
<rob^> geek staple diet
<Seveas> 16 minutes now, about the normal delay for a CC meeting :)
<Treenaks> :P
<\sh> back
<Seveas> wb
<ondrej> normal delay for _every_ meeting :)
<Seveas> nah
<Seveas> normal *duration* for TB meetings :)
<Virtuall> :
<ploum> How long are CC meetings generaly ? (just to plan my afternoon)
<rob^> we normally just go, not so formal the docteam
<Treenaks> ploum: they take until the next meeting is scheduled ;)
<Seveas> I once wanted to watch a TB meeting and was 8 minutes late. The meeting was over by then :)
* ajmitch looks forward to next weeks MOTU meeting :)
<Lathiat> haha Seveas 
<Seveas> ploum, 2 hours
<Nafallo> ploum: lot's of stuff on the agenda, dunno :-)
<Seveas> (at least)
<ploum> Thkx for your replies ...
<Seveas> That's why I always do the public service announcement, if everyone is prepared it can save a lot of time
<ploum> Seveas, it's a good idea. I just did it and typed my intro
<mako> ogra: ok.. you pinged the others, right?
<ogra> yup, others pinged them here too
* mako nods
<ogra> no reaction so far
<mako> ok..
<mako> did anyone call or sms the others?
<Seveas> I sent out a message in #u-d to elmo/sabdfl
<ogra> nope
<Seveas> no response
<mako> ok.. so kamion is not going ot make it
* \sh doesn't have any mobile numbers ... ok..ogras but he's here ,-)
<Nafallo> mako: do we need to decide anything on the LoCo teams? I know JennyLw can't stay after 14 UTC.
<ajmitch> I think that kamion won't be worrying about ubuntu stuff for awhile yet :)
<mako> Nafallo: locos don't need a vote
<mako> yeah, kamion is on his honeymoon right no so asking him to show up might be a bad move
<rob^> yes
<mako> i'll sms the other two
<Seveas> sort-of :)
<\sh> honeymoon?
<Nafallo> mako: we actually could process them and people start pinging/calling/mailing/kidnapping those not here? ;-)
<mako> \sh: he got married 3 days ago
<hno73> The SFD LoCo point I put on the agenda probably doesn't need any vote. It was just to raise awarenes of it
<\sh> mako: ok...I'll bet in 7 years and 364 days he will be available for ubuntu again *eg*
<Nafallo> and we should have stand-ins for those on vacation in the future ;-)
<hno73> Ithought the CC might make a statement for recomended involvement or something
<mako> i mean, dudes
<mako> this is the hard time for *me*
<Seveas> hno73, good point, I'm also interested in what other loco's are doing
<Seveas> mako, 6am?
<\sh> mako: marrie :) 
<mako> 7
<mako> it's not impossible
<Seveas> ouch :)
<mako> it's like 4am :)
<mako> it's *not* like 4am
<mako> that would be tough
<mako> i smsed elmo and mark
* Seveas took a phase shift last week, back to 9:00-22:00 awakeness from 13:00-03:00
<Seveas> otherwise I would not be here :)
<\sh> mako: come on...U don't have to listen right now to "we shall overcome" or "kumbayah my lord" the whole night like I do
<Seveas> \sh, rofl!
<jjesse> grin its easy when it is 8am :)
<jjesse> just starting wor
<ploum> I think I would have prefered 7AM...
<ploum> It's 2PM for me and it is the first sunny afternoon in two months !!!
<mako> ploum: i'm moving out in a couple weeks if you want my apt :)
<mako> i am wearing a sweatshirt for the first time in 2.5 weeks
<mako> it's actually cold
<mako> not 40 degrees :)
<gothcat> mako: can't we start with the locos soon?? I'm contactperson for the sewdich team but I have to go 14 UTC..
<Nafallo> swedish :-)
<hno73> Svensker ...
<ploum> mako : I just finish my hacky teleporter and I'm there
<Nafallo> hno73: ey! that's norweigan? ;-)
<hno73> :)
<mako> ok.. sabdfl is apparently home sick
<mako> so maybe we're going to have to put this off for a week
<mako> we're tryint to find out elmo's status
<Seveas> We can handle the non-vote items
<mako> yes
<Nafallo> ouch
<mako> we can
<Nafallo> Seveas++
<Seveas> I'll write a wrap-up for the people who were unable to attend
<mako> gothcat: we're trying to find the council :)
<Nafallo> LoCo + LoCo SDF :-)
<mako> Seveas: that would be great :)
<Nafallo> hmm, my ping to sabdfl will probably not me answered in a while then ;-)
<Seveas> about the agenda: 2 items are marked as possible agenda leftovers
<gothcat> mako: I know but I'm geting worried :)
<Nafallo> mako: I'll talk to you after the meeting about some stuff then :-)
<Seveas> please check the agenda, if this is incorrect, tell me :)
<mako> ok
<ploum> That sounds like a Hollywood movie :
<mako> elmo is probably not going to make it
<mako> his phone is diverting to voicemail
<ploum> Indiana Mako and the lost Council
<mako> so it's me
<Nafallo> LOL
<Seveas> ploum, that's going in my .signature :)
<Seveas> ok, shall we start then?
<gothcat> yes!
<Nafallo> that name will follow mako forever ;-)
<mako> just hold up
<mako> someone at the office is talking to mark now
<Seveas> ok
<mako> but i'm telling him it will be fine without him since we can't vote without elmo anyway
<mako> and there's no reason to abuse his sick body unless he really wants to :)
<Seveas> well, mark can give a desicive vote in case of a hung jury
<Seveas> so you+mark would be a majority 
<mako> mark will show up
<Seveas> (I agree to the not abusing his sick body though)
<mako> we've never actually had a meeting with 2 people
* mako shrugs
<ploum> mako, that's not called a meeting but "a date"
<Virtuall> :D
<mako> i've never been very comfortable with the 2-person CC meeting
* mako shrugs
<mako> but it's certainly better than the 1 person meeting
<Nafallo> mako: let sabdfl put Seveas as Kamion's standin? :-)
<ploum> Two is the number you shall count. Not three, not one, except before the two !
<ploum> The Holy Hand Council..
<ozamosi> five is totaly of
<ajmitch> Nafallo: adding a replacement/new member would probably take at least the whole council :)
<ajmitch> if not a vote from ubuntu members
<Nafallo> ajmitch: so a "Self-Appointed Benevolent Dictator For Life" would not suffice? ;-)
<ajmitch> Nafallo: I believe he doesn't want to dictate to that degree :)
<Nafallo> hehe
<Seveas> Nafallo, it might cause another ubuntu-spatial-nautilus-like discussion/debacle :)
<Nafallo> lol
<ajmitch> Nafallo: the page says appointments are made by sabdfl, subject to confirmation by maintainer vote
* smurfix needs to vanish for 20min or so (*food*) :-/
<Nafallo> oki
<Nafallo> smurfix: that might be SwedishTeam then ;-)
<mako> smurfix: ok.. lets move ahead since we don't need to vote on that stuff
<mako> loco teams
<gothcat> yes
<Seveas> JennyLoow/RobinSonefors
<Nafallo> Sweden! :-)
<mako> alright, everyone, please state your name for the record right now
<mako> if you haven't already
<Seveas> Dennis Kaarsemaker
<mako> and i just missed it
<mako> Benjamin Mako Hill
<ozamosi> Robin Sonefors
<gothcat> Jenny Lw
<Mitario> Michiel Sikkes
<Treenaks> Martijn van de Streek
* Nafallo == Christian Bjlevik
<segfault> Carlos Eduardo Pedroza Santiviago
<rob^> Robert Stoffers
<ondrej> Ondrej Sury
<mbreit> Moritz Breit
<ajmitch> Andrew Mitchell
<rbelem> Rodrigo Cesar Lopes Belem
<Virtuall> Danko Alexeyev
<hno73> Henrik Omma
<ploum> Lionel Dricot
<mako> ozamosi, gothcat: how are things in sweden?
<ogra> Oliver Grawert
<Simira> Karianne Grnningster
<ozamosi> mako, sunny :P
<gothcat> good :)
<Seveas> tell us some more about the teams progress
<gothcat> we planing to have a installparty breezy
<Nafallo> mako: I'm admin and helper, so I will be part of this discussion at some point :-)
* mako nods to Nafallo 
<Seveas> gothcat, nice, big lanparty-like installfest?
<Lathiat> ;win 20
<gothcat> some thing like that maby have it on dreamhack even
<Seveas> any SFD plans?
<Nafallo> that's what I need to talk to sabdfl/mako about ;-)
<gothcat> in november :P
<Nafallo> ozamosi: ping? :-)
<ozamosi> We (or, kindofwe) have SFD-plans
<Seveas> like what? Give the other teams some inspiration :)
<Treenaks> Safe For Deletion?
<Virtuall> :)
<Seveas> Software Freedom Day
<Nafallo> SFD together with a local LUG :-)
<Nafallo> I ordered 400 CDs yesterday/today :-)
<Seveas> Nafallo, that's a bit short in time - did you coordinate this with mako?
<mako> cds really should have been ordered through SFD
* \sh <--- StephanHermann missed the introduction
<hno73> http://softwarefreedomday.org/
<rob^> my LUG is pushing Ubuntu on SFD
<Nafallo> we had the first meeting yesterday, and this SFD discussion came up handy.
<hno73> Team locations: http://majen.net/sfdworldwide/ :)
<ozamosi> mako, yes, but there were no loco nor lug before the deadline...
<Seveas> hno73, nice ubuntu logo @ sfd.org
<Nafallo> hadn't heard about it before, but those CDs will come here ASAP :-)
<hno73> Seveas: thanks
<Seveas> swedish team anything else you want to discuss?
* mvo is michael vogt 
<ozamosi> Not that I can think of?
<Nafallo> we need a mailinglist (jdub mailed) and our domain on a linode vserver :-=)
* mako nods to mvo 
<Nafallo> :-)
<mako> Nafallo: alright, you've done what you need for the former
<mako> you should coordinate for the latter with smurfix
<mako> smurfix: right?
<ozamosi> mako, smurfix went away
<Nafallo> mako: oki :-)
<mako> well, i think i'm right
<hno73> Nafallo: email me about SFD CDs and Linode henrik@ubuntu.com
<mako> smurfix will tell you if i'm not
<Seveas> I thought silbs did that
<Nafallo> hno73: CDs is done. I'll mail you about Linode though :-)
<hno73> OK, cool
<mako> alright
<Seveas> next up: BrazilTeam (RodrigoBelem/IanLawrence)
<mako> ozamosi, gothcat did you guys have anything else?
<rbelem> hi all ;)
<mako> thanks for showing up :)
<gothcat> no
<ozamosi> mako, no
<mako> cool, well keep in touch
<mako> let us know what worked and didn't :)
<gothcat> :P
<rbelem> ian can't be here
<mako> rbelem: that's cool
<mako> rbelem: how is brazil?
<ogra> rbelem, thats ok.... we dont have a full council here anyway today
* mako is not a full council
<rbelem> well...
<ogra> so nobody can approve new members
<rbelem> we have a mailiig list with around  140 members
<rob^> doh
<rbelem> Ian and me did 3 talks about ubuntu and ubuntu-br
<rbelem> we did some install fests
<Seveas> rbelem, if you have english versions of slides/notes, put them on the wiki (non-engish versions may be welcome too)
<Seveas> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Presentations
<mako> versions in any language are fine
<rbelem> Seveas, ok... it's in portuguese ;-)
<mako> rbelem: that's fine :)
<segfault> just for the records... http://www.prognus.com.br/~carlos/installfest/63.html
* mako has posted spanish slides myself
<segfault> ph33r :-)
<mako> rbelem: how many people do you have participating in your loco?
<rbelem> and we plan be a cds distribution point
<mako> rbelem: do you mean on a national scale?
<rbelem> yeah ;-)
<mako> rbelem: at the moment, we're not really able to do that but we don't need to discuss the details of why now
<rbelem> mark was here
<mako> rbelem: hno73 made a similar proposal not long ago and other people have suggested it for a long time but it's logitistically more work than we can handle at the moment
<mako> ok
<mako> so, brazil is a big country
<mako> how geographically spread out are you?
<mako> your loco?
<rbelem> cds have a great delay
<mako> rbelem: i understand that
<rbelem> around 4 moths
<rbelem> i live in north
* smurfix is back
<rbelem> i guess the cds production will be done in two cities
<rbelem> Manaus and Porto Alegre
<segfault> Well, i'm a member too of the Brazilian Team, and we're in the South part of Brazil, and my city is near to Paraguay and Argentina. Where we can, we spread the ubuntu philosophy.
<hno73> rbelem: Brazil has 6 SFD teams. Have/could you get in touch with any of those? See: http://maitri.ubuntu.com/softwarefreedomday/wiki/index.php/Brasil
<mako> rbelem: we are looking at ways into speeding up the whole cd shipping process, but some solutions that seem obvious to people might be difficult
<mako> rbelem: prohibitively so. or prohibitively expensive or require more overhead that we can currently deal with
<Seveas> mako, is there public discussion/info available on that?
<mako> Seveas: no, but jane write a nice email to hno73 that might make a decent wiki page or edited into a faq entry even
<rbelem> hno73, acctualy i contacted two
<mako> rbelem: right, i realize you are in the north
<mako> rbelem: i was wondering if everyone else in your team was also in the north
<hno73> rbelem: cool, any collaboration possible?
<mako> and if so, if there's any sort of work you're doing to involve folks from the rest of brazil
<rbelem> rbelem, the art work guy, me, Ian, some translators, and the translator of ubuntuguide
<rob^> maybe you would be better off translating the FAQ Guide instead of ubuntuguide
<rbelem> hno73, yes, today we will have a metting about this
<Seveas> rbelem, are you on the locoteam-contacts mailinglist?
<rob^> its one in the same really, just one is maintained by us
<rbelem> hno73, and after that i'll contatc  the others places
<hno73> rbelem: do you know the ubuntu-bus people? http://www.gnome.org/~jdub/blog/projects/ubuntu/1123851054
<rbelem> Seveas, yes
<mako> rbelem: you didn't really answer me in regards to the question about people in other parts of brazil and involvement in the loco
<mako> rbelem: i'm curious if this is a de facto north brazil loco at the moment and, if so, what you guys are doing to involve people from other places in brazil
<rbelem> mako, there is people from many states
<rbelem> mako, the states are:
<elmo> sorry I'm late
<Seveas> hi elmo 
<rbelem> mako, Rio Grande do Sul, Parana, Rio de Janeiro, Amazonas, Roraima, Goias
<mako> rbelem: cool, that's great :)
<Nafallo> elmo: hi elmo :-)
<mako> elmo: not a problem, i've just been talking to locos
<mako> elmo: it's just the two of us
<mako> sabdfl is sick and kamion is, well, y'know
<Seveas> doomed :)
<elmo> apparently cvd is bringing the sick sabdfl a laptop
<mako> heh :)
<mako> ok
<Seveas> rbelem, anything else you wanted to discuss?
<mako> rbelem: sounds like you guys have things under control
<mako> rbelem: anything else?
<rbelem> mako, and i'll try to contact people from other states
<rbelem> mako, one more thing
<Seveas> (Next up: CzechTeam (OndejSur), please prepare)
<rbelem> the mailing list ubuntu-br is not on the list
<rbelem> of mailing lists
<mako> rbelem: talk to jdub about that
<mako> as far as i know, he's the only one that can change that still
<ondrej> Seveas: Ondrej Sury willdo (so we don't confuse IRC list)
<rbelem> mako, ok ;)
<mako> rbelem: thanks for your work 
<mako> ondrej: greetings
<ondrej> hi
<mako> ondrej: how's your loco?
<rbelem> mako, ;-)
<mako> the page is very much in czech
<ondrej> well, I was asked three or four weeks ago about starting local webpages and now projects is going really well
<mako> looks like you have a half a dozen people involved
<ondrej> I started www.ubuntu.cz webpage, have three active translator, one person doing web design and /me
* mako nods
<mako> you've translated a lot :)
<ondrej> I am also in contact with Debian L10N team (Miroslav Kure)
<mako> great
<mako> so you guys are focusing mostly on l10n stuff?
<Seveas> ondrej, contact smurfix to make ubuntu-cz.org be forwarded to ubuntu.cz
<ondrej> we have CDs distribution point together with CZLUG 
<ondrej> CZLUG pays for postage, I order batch of CDs from Ubuntu and package them :-)
<mako> ondrej: nice :)
<ondrej> I wan't to focus on L10N, QA for next release (so we don't have nasty bugs like in Hoary)...
<mako> ondrej: testing is important :)
<ondrej> I am also promoting Ubuntu where I can...  yesterday we published GNOME 2.12 preview tour translation (www.ubuntu.cz/gnome-2.12) to help promote Breezy before it gets out.
<mako> ondrej: awesome :)
<Seveas> ah good idea, I'll do a dutch version of it 
<ondrej> I also applied to membership in Czech OSS Aliance which helps promoting open source in CZ (and I hope it will be accepted real soon)
<ondrej> I also do translations of USN (which seems to be attractive to people :-)
<mako> ondrej: nice, sounds like you guys are doing a lot of great work
<mako> ondrej: is there anything you need from us?
<ondrej> my personal primary focus is on coordinating other people to do the work, doing QA and when I have time translate stuff myself...
<ondrej> well, right now I am waiting for CDs to arrive...  I have about 50 people in queue asking for about 70 CDs
<ondrej> I also run archive.ubuntu.cz mirror (maybe cz.archive.ubuntu.com would be nice?)
<mako> ondrej: email info@shipit.ubuntu.com if you want an order to be sent/resent at high priority
<ondrej> it was already shipped at 08-08
<ondrej> and it's 65 people now... (just checked my folder)
<mako> in terms of mirrors, i guess you just need to mail the address on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Archive
<mako> ondrej: then it should be there soon :)
<ondrej> I think that this shows how important LoCo teams are...  and how important is to communicate with people in native language
<mako> ondrej: cool, well thanks for all of your work
<mako> is Danko around from LatvianTeam
<Seveas> Virtuall, 
<mako> ah, Virtuall 
<mako> we talked last meeting
<mako> is there something new that has come up?
<mako> alright
<mako> we'll move on
<Virtuall> 
<Virtuall> here
<Virtuall> :)
<mako> oh, ok :)
<mako> Virtuall: just in time
<Virtuall> we have our site finished
<mako> Virtuall: anything new you wanted to air here?
<mako> Virtuall: nice, url?
<Virtuall> and we have the mirror too
<Virtuall> http://ubuntu-lv.org
<ondrej> mako: there is one thing left...  I still need that day of birth for ubuntu.cz contact person at Czech NIC
<Virtuall> not much info yet
<Virtuall> but :) well
<Virtuall> i'm writing a material about what is Linux and what is Ubuntu in Latvian
<Virtuall> not yet finished
<Virtuall> :)
<Virtuall> about SFD...
<mako> ondrej: well, ask whoever's DoB you need :)
<Virtuall> we are waiting for someone bigger (LAKA, Lintech etc.) action
<Virtuall> if not, well... we're working on plan B
<Virtuall> ;)
<ondrej> I think elmo's...  but I already sent him email...
<mako> ondrej: well, he's here now, msg him :)
<Seveas> ondrej, hmm, that might be classified information :)
<Virtuall> and the CDs... we really need them. kolcvk told me he asked you for cds a long time ago
<mako> for the record, my birthday is december 2
<mako> presents should be sent to the address at http://mako.cc/contact.html
<Seveas> Virtuall, cd's take a long time for everybody...
<ondrej> Seveas: well I consider it stupid to have this kind of information in NIC database, but second option of including passport number is maybe even worse
<mako> Seveas: i think kolvck's situation was a little different
<mako> Virtuall: kolvck setn me a message and then logged off before i could respond
<mako> Virtuall: i'm happy to work this out but we'll need to actually talk or he can drop me a mail
<Nafallo> he should use e-mail :-)
<mako> Virtuall: you can also just email info@shipit.ubuntu.com
<Virtuall> could you please wait a little bit
<mako> Virtuall: i'm no longer answering most of those messages
<elmo> I've just msg'ed ondrej my bday
<mako> elmo: awesome :)
<mako> Virtuall: he'll be expecting a present on that day
<mako> sorry
<mako> ondrej: ^^^
<Virtuall> ok
<Virtuall> :)
* mako will send elmo a present
<mako> elmo: hope you like dutch bottle scrapers
<elmo> mako: more than anything
<Seveas> *falls on the floor*
<Seveas> Virtuall, anything else?
<Virtuall> nope
<Treenaks> elmo: we want a picture of you holding and/or using it of course
<Seveas> Treenaks, ask virginie @ tosti
<mako> alright, 
<Seveas> (hmm, hat's for mako holding it btw)
<mako> alright then
<mako> is sabdfl actually going to show up?
<Seveas> last thing that does not need approval: local SFD plans
<mako> well sure
<Treenaks> *idly wonders how airport security reacted to the bottle scrapers*
<mako> hno73 and i are both on the SFD board
<mako> hno73 is much more involved and active than i of course
<Nafallo> Sweden: http://nluug.blinkenlights.se/index.php/SFD
<mako> but you should direct any SFD related questions to either one of us
<mako> locos are strongly encouraged to make plans for SFD, even if they haven't already
<mako> it would be have nice if they'd done it a while ago but, y'know :)
* Seveas is going to do an ubuntu multiplr-choice presentation
<mako> was there anything else specific about this item?
<\sh> is there anything happening for the SFD in germany?
<hno73> I still have some SFD CDs, so if someone makes a really good case, I can send some
<mako> \sh: check out http://www.softwarefreedomday.org/
<hno73> (ie. show that they have some decent plans)
<Seveas> So if anybody has material for presentations, please put it on the wiki :)
<mako> Seveas: i will be uploading three presentations probably later today
<Seveas> mako, great!
<hno73> \sh: http://maitri.ubuntu.com/softwarefreedomday/wiki/index.php/Germany
<rob^> Seveas, soon..
<Seveas> I'll upload mine as soon as it is finished
<mako> Seveas: excellent
<\sh> hno73: yeah saw it..nothing in our area
<\sh> nothing in berlin
<hno73> oh, and everyoneshould feel free to blog about their planning ;)
<mako> \sh: make something in berlin :)
* Seveas is not on planet Ubuntu :)
<mako> Seveas: can be fixed
<\sh> mako: helping dholbach to relax yes :) and to help me to relax ,-)
<Treenaks> Seveas: you don't have RSS
<mako> alright
<Seveas> mako, not shortly, I have not created a feed yet ;)
<mako> anything else loco related?
<Nafallo> hmm, the LUG seems to have disappared.
<mako> going once.. 
<mako> gone !
<Nafallo> #ubuntu.se probably handles this themselves
<mako> alright
<Nafallo> mako: one question.
<mako> Nafallo: bah :)
<mako> Nafallo: whats up?
<Seveas> will sabdfl be here soon or do we skip the rest completely?
<mako> we're going to need to decide that very soon
<elmo> mako: jane's calling him now
<Nafallo> mako: is it possible to get one of you kewl dudes traveling? :-)
<ajmitch> Nafallo: ubuntu world tour! :)
<mako> Nafallo: it is.. but schedule permitting of course
<mako> Nafallo: but yes, as far as i understand, sabdfl will be traveling a lot more in the near future
<Nafallo> mako: okey, what people are we talking about? this is important for most locos I believe :-)
* \sh will kidnap mako...hides him in the church of kerpen and sing with him "kumbayah my lord" 24/7
<Nafallo> or would atleast be a nice move for the special day :-)
<ajmitch> Nafallo: see wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWorldTour, also :)
<mako> Nafallo: i've traveled a lot in the past. sabdfl can, jdub does sometimes. i'm not sure what the whole list is
<Nafallo> mako: I'll start pinging the world of high people then ;-)
<Nafallo> also more planning should be done by us.
<Nafallo> this changed our plans a bit :-/
* mako nods
<Nafallo> less people and stuff like that
<mako> alright
<mako> lets move on
* Nafallo nods
<rbelem> mako, i forgot to ask a question...
<ozamosi> Nafallo, doubt it really is less people
<mako> rbelem: yes, go ahead
<rbelem> mako, is there a possibility to create a dns entry to each state team like am,ubuntu-br.org rs.ubuntu-br.org
<smurfix> rbelem: yes
<rbelem> cool ;-)
<mako> rbelem: :)
<smurfix> just tell me where they should go
<mako> rbelem: i think that's ideal for a place like brazil :)
<mako> alright
<mako> so the accessibility team is on here
<mako> the accessibility team was one of the round of teams that were created IIRC
<rbelem> can each state has your linode?
<Seveas> doesn't that require approval mako..?
<mako> rbelem: if each team meets the criteria for a loco team, i don't see what why not
<hno73> mako: I don't think it ws actually voted on
<mako> rbelem: so if it's just one person, no. but it if each one is a full loco team on its own, i think that's fine
<mako> hno73: i think it was approved at like the first or second CC meeting along with the laptop team
<hno73> mako: everyone just agreed it was probably a good idea
<rbelem> mako, or i can setup the ubuntu-br linode to host all the state team
<hno73> mako: ok, I wasn't there at that meeting though
<mako> rbelem: you can do that no matter what. if you want seperate linode servers, i would suggset that each sub-team be a proper loco on its own and you can just be a sort of federation of locos :)
<mako> hno73: well, i've been pointing people to the accessibility team for most of a year :)
<Nafallo> sabdfl: welcome! :-)
<sabdfl> hi all
<gothcat> yay!
<Seveas> hi sabdfl!
<mako> hno73: i certainly thought it was a proper team :)
<ogra> hey sabdfl 
<rbelem> mako, yeah... ;)
<sabdfl> sorry for getting the time wrong
<mako> sabdfl: not a problem
<sabdfl> where are we in the agenda?
<mako> sabdfl: not really in order
<sabdfl> ok, fire away
<mako> sabdfl: we've done everything that doesn't require a vote
<Seveas> accessibility team now
<Nafallo> sabdfl: loco, sfd done :-)
<Seveas> (after skipping members temporarily)
<\sh> jesus^H^H^H^Hsabdfl came at least :) I have to msg the pope ,-)
<hno73> mako: ok, let's just confirm it then, or appoint a contact
<mako> sabdfl: accesibility team, then members, then we're done
<mako> hno73: are you still happy to be the contact?
<sabdfl> ok, background on the accessibility team?
<hno73> mako: yes
<mako> sabdfl: there seems to be some confusion as to if the CC ever voted to approve the AT
<hno73> I'd like to structure work around accessibility features a bit more. We tentatively started an accessibility team some months ago, but it never got official CC approval. I'd just like to follow that up and put myself forward as team contact
<mako> sabdfl: i certainly have been pointing people to it for the last year assuming it was a proper team
<mitsuhiko> \sh: rofl
<hno73> everyone agreed it was a good idea, but the vote was passed over (I think)
<mako> hno73: that sounds totally fine with me
<mako> it has my vote
<sabdfl> hno73: +1 from me for an official accessibility team, with hno73 as contact
<mako> elmo: ?
<elmo> sure
<hno73> ok, thanks
<mako> hno73: you're golden
<mako> alright
<mako> lets do members
<hno73> I'll take it from there
<Seveas> JonathanJesse?
<mako> he logged off
<mako> about halfway through the meeting
<Seveas> RobinSonefors then
<ozamosi> Present!
<mako> ozamosi: greetings
<ozamosi> Hi
<mako> everyone knows the routine, right?
<Seveas> mako, yes
<Seveas> I did the public service announcement :)
* mako saw it
<mako> i just want to make sure everyone else did :)
<Mitario> maybe do it again ;)
<mako> we need a couple sentances about what you've done
<ozamosi> So, a few lines about me...
<Nafallo> Seveas: you should have an alias for that ;-)
<ozamosi> Untill now, I have done little more than translating (which, of course, also is important), and I've also held a lecture about Ubuntu at my school (I will hold many more this autumn). Now, I want to become one of the Swedish LoCo contacts, and to be that, I need to be a member. I think the most important thing about Ubuntu is that it is Free Software, and I want it to stay that way. I want to inform as many as possible about 
<ozamosi> the benefits of Free Software, but, without features, no one will want it, and thus Ubuntu must also be better than anything else out there for everyone (it already is for me)
<mako> and a couple sentances about what you plan to do and where you want to ubuntu to go and how you're going to be part of that (prepare in advance is good)
<Seveas> Nafallo, I have...
<sabdfl> mako: i've got the +editproposed page up, will mark the guys off as we go
<mako> sabdfl: fantastic
<jsgotangco> hi
* Seveas will do a similar thing on the wiki
<sabdfl> Seveas: actually, could you re-write the wiki page so that it does not have a list of people in it? seems silly to have the info in two places
<ajmitch> sabdfl: would you be able to mark me as a member at some point?
<Seveas> sabdfl, I'll do it afterwards
<sabdfl> ajmitch:  done
<Treenaks> sabdfl: or me
<ajmitch> thanks
* ondrej wonders where council can vote now or still not?
<Nafallo> sabdfl: message about approval from me :-)
<Seveas> ondrej, yes
<Nafallo> back to topic maybe? :-)
<Seveas> ozamosi, you do not need to be a member to be team contact
<ozamosi> Seveas, it says so on the loco wiki page?
<mako> actually, the wiki page is still useful because it tracks if we've talked about someone before, why we didn't approve them, etc
<ploum_> sorry, my wireless goes off. Did I miss something for LionelDricot ?
<Virtuall> ...yes? so I don't either? (excuses)
<Seveas> and Ubuntu membership is generally a sign of recognition of past contributions 
<mako> but in any case
<Seveas> ploum, no
<ploum_> (thx)
<mako> but lets get back to ozamosi now
<ondrej> just quick not: Ubuntu Czech is not officially member of OSS Aliance in Czech Republic (non-profit for promoting use of OSS in schools/government/etc.)
<ondrej> s/not/now/
<mako> ondrej: lets please try to stay in order
<sabdfl> ondrej: that's awesome, congratulations
<Nafallo> ozamosi have done a great deal of translations since he became a member and he is really active in our new LoCo :-)
<Nafallo> he is the one that's planned most of the SFD-day for us
<sabdfl> ozamosi: how have you been helping the LoCo?
<mako> ozamosi: have you been using rosetta?
<ozamosi> mako, yes
<gothcat> ozamosi is a great guy to work with, I know since we are contacts together
<ozamosi> sabdfl, well, organizing SFD, and also starting up the LoCo
<Nafallo> I would love to see him as member, not just for his new work on the loco, but for his involvement in the translationteam and for converting his sister to Ubuntu :-)
<ozamosi> Nafallo, :)
<ozamosi> Well, her computer was too crappy for windows anyway...
<mako> ozamosi: your wiki page is not really as big as i'd like
<mako> ozamosi: there are no links to translations that you have done, for example
<ozamosi> mako, I looked at Nafallo's and gothcat's wikipages, and tried to mimic them, since I didn't know what to write there
<mako> it's hard for me to get a good handle on the particular contributions you've made
<Nafallo> https://launchpad.net/people/ozamosi/+translations
<Nafallo> https://launchpad.net/people/ozamosi/+karma
<mako> ^^ that is one very useful thing you can put in if you've done a lot of translations
<ozamosi> I will do that.
<mako> nice, that's a good deal of translation
<sabdfl> ozamosi: +1 for membership from me, on the basis of translations and loco contributions
<Nafallo> the best thing he is _very_ nice to work with on things :-) and got lot's of ideas :-)
<mako> it's clear that you've done a significant amount of translations and care about the loco
<jsgotangco> nice karma
* mako votes in favor
<mako> elmo: ?
<elmo> ack
<Nafallo> yay!
<Nafallo> that's three!
<ozamosi> Wii! *dances around*
<Seveas> Welcome aboard!
<Nafallo> ozamosi: welcome dude *huges*
<Nafallo> :-)
<Seveas> Next: CarlosSantiviago
<ozamosi> Nafallo, thanks!
<segfault> it's me
<segfault> hi all!
<mako> segfault: great
<segfault> let me introduce myself...
<segfault> Hi, my name is Carlos Eduardo Pedroza Santiviago, brazilian, and i'm helping Ubuntu in some translations (to pt_BR) in Rosetta so far, and i plan to still help in the translations, and start learning the debian packaging system, so i can make some packages and help in this area too.
<segfault> I started using Linux in 1997, and already used almost all Linux distributions, but when i met Ubuntu, in the beginning of 2005, i just knew it was the best distribution, because of its simplicity, ease of use, and works like a charm.
<segfault> I work in a company called Prognus (Pro-GNUs, heh), and we're customizing Ubuntu for the largest hydroelectric power plant in the world, Itaipu Binacional (http://www.itaipu.gov.br).
<segfault> I'm helping to advocate Ubuntu where i can, installing it in the so called "installfests" (http://www.psl-trinacional.org), and we're preparing too for the 10th September, for the Software Freedom Day.
<jsgotangco> soooo prepared
<segfault> some pictures of our last installfest @ http://www.prognus.com.br/~carlos/installfest/
<segfault> :)
<Seveas> segfault, do you work a lot with the LoCoteam?
<segfault> not as much as i would like, since my job takes much of my time
<rbelem> Seveas, he is the guy of the south
<segfault> but i try when i have some spare time
<segfault> https://launchpad.net/people/segfault/
<segfault> i started the brazilian portuguese team in rosetta
<sabdfl>  +1 for segfault from me
<sabdfl> the pt_BR team is looking awesome, lots of translators, lots of activity
<mako> segfault: are you working with rbelem ?
<segfault> yeah
<segfault> our LUG mascot: http://www.prognus.com.br/~carlos/installfest/63.html
<segfault> hehe
<segfault> mako: where structuring the ubuntu-br wiki
<mako> segfault: great. are you involved with a sort of sub-loco for a geographical area within brazil?
<segfault> creating regional groups, defining rules to be a pt_br translator, just to have a QA
<ogra> oops.. we vote
<mako> great :)
<segfault> yeah, i live near to Paraguay and Argentina
<mako> segfault: what region?
<segfault> Foz do Iguacu (City), Parana (state)
<mako> segfault: ah, ok :)
<mako> sounds great
* mako is happy to have segfault as a member
<mako> elmo: ?
<segfault> our LUG is called PSL Trinacional, because of the three countries
<elmo> ack
<mako> MoritzBreit
<mako> segfault: welcome on board
<ogra> yay
<jsgotangco> wee
<mbreit> mako: that's me
<segfault> hehe, thanks guys! :)
<mako> mbreit: greetings :)
<Seveas> Welcome segfauly!
<Seveas> s/y/t
<Seveas> mbreit, nice wiki page!
<mbreit> thanks mako, thanks Seveas 
<mbreit> I have created the Gnomeradio package which is in Universe now and I have fixed several packages in Universe (unmet dependencies and gcc4 issues). I am going to help the MOTU team where I can and to make some more packages of which I think they should be included in Universe.
<ogra> s/several/tons of
<ogra> :)
<\sh> mbreit is going to be MOTU asap...;-)
<mbreit> And I'll help siretart with REVU2
<mako> mbreit: how long have hacking on universe stuff?
<ajmitch> we want mbreit in the MOTU team :)
<ogra> yeah
* siretart too :)
<mbreit> mako: ahh... hmm.. one or two weeks now
<mbreit> mako: i thinks it's two weeks by now
<mako> mbreit: one of things we look for is sustained contributions
<ogra> thast quite a big amount of packages for 2 weeks
<mako> i'd be more comfortable asking you to wait until the next meeting if that's alright
<ogra> mako, scroll down on the wikipage
<mako> not that i think you're going to stop or anything :)
<jsgotangco> wow that's a lot of DONE in the page
<mako> right right :)
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: yeah, that's about 2 months of MOTU work for me :)
<Seveas> 2 weeks that much...?
<ogra> mako, i think this table speaks for itself
<sabdfl> that's a good contribution already
<mako> the two criteria for membership are sustained and significant
<mako> i think the significant is not arguable :)
<mbreit> mako: i've been involved in ubuntu a bit longer than that... but not that active in fixing universe stuff
<mako> mbreit: ah, ok
<sabdfl> in the past we've asked guys to come back the next time around, just to be consistent
<Seveas> mbreit, what were your other onvolvements?
<mako> mbreit: what were you doing?
<sabdfl> though in this case, with breezy looming, it would be nice for mbreit to go straight into the MOTU
<mbreit> mako: for example my gnomeradio package, which is in universe now...
<sabdfl>  +1 for mbreit from me
<mako> yeah, this is clearly significant.. that's not the issue.. i just think membership should recognize people have participated in the community for a sustained period of time as well as to a significant level :)
<mako> mbreit: how long have you been working on that?
<\sh> mako: mbreit fixed a couple of really nasty issues...I'm glad to have him as member and as motu as well
<siretart> mako: I would also be very happy to have him as motu
<ogra> ++ from here....
<mako> as kamion pointed out, you guys have never expressed reservations about anyone :)
<mbreit> mako: to be honest, not more than a month, but I can't say that for sure
<ajmitch> mako: we only recruit the best :)
<sabdfl> mako: would you be happy to defer till TB next week?
<mako> sabdfl: yes
<sabdfl> let them confirm him for MOTU, and simultaneously membership?
<sabdfl> mbreit: how does that sound?
<mako> even an extra week would be ok with me
<mbreit> sabdfl: that would be okay for me ;)
<mako> i'm not going to vote against it
<sabdfl> ok, let's do that
<sabdfl>  +1 from me, subject to TB appointment to MOTU next week
<mako> i think just think it's good precedent to require that someone be active in the community for a month or more so we can get to know them
<ogra> mako, we need every helping hand, universe is in a bad state for release, mbreit obviously has the skills and the will 
<mako> ogra: i'm not saying he shouldn't help
<ogra> mako, i know
<elmo> FWIW, I agree with mako
<ogra> oki
<ajmitch> ogra: on that note, add what you think needs done to the MOTU meeting agenda for next week :)
<mako> ogra: but this is about membership and one of the *two* criteria is sustained constributions. i think we're not being fair to folks if we say that is a week or two of solid serious work
<ogra> yep, i understand that...
* siretart agrees
<Seveas> ogra, so he will be a MOTU, but for now you will have to upload the packages for him :)
* Seveas really likes the MOTU-recruitment spirit though
<ogra> Seveas, yes, and all uploaders and reviewers are overworked anyway.... i thin \sh  doesnt sleep anymore at all
<mako> mbreit: yeah, i'm not sleighting your work.. i'm just trying to be consistent :)
<mbreit> mako: I understand that
<mako> mbreit: we'll talk again soon
<Seveas> OK, so are we moving on?
<\sh> ogra: I'll sleep...and I just refueled over the last weekend ,-)
<ogra> :)
<mako> AlexanderDomanski
<Seveas> What's the status of AlexanderDomanski? He wrote a 'does not need to show up' remark in the wiki himself...
<mako> yes
<jsgotangco> lol
<mako> he was here last time
<Seveas> ok
<mako> and we told him to defer
<Seveas> Any reason to accept without him being here?
<mako> but he was on holiday this week so i told him if he defered he wouldn't need to show up since he already posted good information
<Seveas> ah...
<mako> and showed up at the last meeting
<mako> we already talked to him
<mako> and it seemed great
<mako> but his wiki page was thin
<Seveas> it contains info now
* mako nods
<Seveas> But i recall having seen that info before
<Seveas> jjesse, wb, remind us to treat your membership application at the end of the meeting
<jjesse> thanks seveas sorry i had to breifly split to solve a work crisis
<mako> alexander seems very active in the germany community
<mako> has done a huge deal of support and documentation in german
<Seveas> any ubuntu-de people here to vouch?
<mako> well, you can read his 900+ posts in user support forums :)
<Seveas> *g*
<mitsuhiko> Seveas: me
<mitsuhiko> jep. alexander is very active in the german community
<Seveas> for a month or more already?
<sabdfl>  +1 from on the basis of activity in the support forums
<sabdfl> s/form/from me/
<ogra> mitsuhiko, community == forums ??
<Seveas> sabdfl, E: no match :)
<mitsuhiko> ogra: ubuntuusers.de
<ogra> so yes...
<mitsuhiko> is a forum :)
<mako> german forums
<mako> he's also done some hacking, advocacy, etc
<ogra> yup, just wanted to know...
<mako> he's been very responsive to me in terms of documenting his contributions..
<mako> i'm happy approving him for membership
<Seveas> Not that I have a vote, but +1 from me based on this
<mako> elmo: ?
<mako> ploum: you're up?
<ploum> yep :-)
<mako> lets charge ahead
<ploum> Hello everybody
<ploum> I'm a 24 years old student in computer engineering and artificial intelligence, fanatic of astronomy. I'm former president of LouvainLiNux, a belgian LUG and I'm very strong free software advocate. And now the 3-liners as Seveas asked for :
<elmo> ack
<ploum> So far, involved in Ubuntu since more than one year (yes, before the release), I've done strong Ubuntu advocacy, beta testing, bug reporting, bug triaging, writing a lot of french documentation and was very active to start the ubuntu-fr community. I'm currently co-author of a book about Ubuntu (with a preface from Mark) for a well known french editor, planned for end october.
<ploum> I want to get more involved in promoting Ubuntu (also in real world), in creating a Belgian community and to continue writing more and more documentation and promotional text. I have also some experience in usability (people with disabilities, old people, ...) and want to take part in an Usability Ubuntu Team
<ploum> I see Ubuntu as the perfect solution I've ever dreamed in the free software world and want to spread it using tools traditionnaly only used by proprietary world (marketing, ..) but also with new ideas not created yet.
<ploum> My wiki page : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ploum
<mako> cool, adomnaski's good for membership
<jsgotangco> nice
<ploum> (don't think I'm copy/pasting, I type very quickly !)
<jsgotangco> wow
<ploum> ;-)
<Mitario> haha :)
<mako> sounds great :)
<Seveas> ploum, Ubuntu books sounds cool
<ogra> belgian beer speeds up ?
<Seveas> ogra, ask mako about kwak :)
<ogra> heh
<ploum> ogra, I will be happy to buy belgian beer to every Ubuntu member that come here :-)
<jsgotangco> we have that in log folks :)
<Seveas> yeah
<Seveas> ploum, impressive wiki page
<\sh> hmmm...belgium is not far away from here..ogra..up for a beer in bruxelles? ,-)
<ogra> ploum, ok, i'll take your word on it, next fosdem ;)
<hno73> ploum: also did good work on TheOpenCD some time ago (which now forms the basis for the Ubuntu Win-FOSS component, so indirectly he's been involved over 2 years ;p )
<mako> good to know that there is a serious long-term involvement there
<ploum> Let's go for fosdem :-)
<mako> well, i'm impressed by the work on the ubuntu book if nothing else :)
<mako> and i am also impressed by ther other stuff as well 
<\sh> ploum: shtoomvoip?
<mako> and appreciate the long-term committement to free software in other related areas
<ploum> \sh, I just reported a bug today
<mako> and have seen ploum around for a very long time in this community
<ploum> nothing
<mako> so i'm happy approving him for membership
<ogra> yay, shtoom !
<ploum> thank you indiana ... mako
<\sh> ploum: well...I just took over thoms place in this project...wanna help?
<ogra> +1 for the beer at fosdem ;)
<jsgotangco> shtoom lives again?
<Seveas> sabdfl, elmo ?
<ogra> and +1 for ploum
<sabdfl> guys i have to step afk for a while
<mako> sabdfl: want to wweigh in on ploum before you go?
<\sh> jsgotangco: deferred for breezy+1
<mako> elmo: ?
<elmo> ack
<mako> ok, how do we want to do this
<Seveas> defer the rest?
<Mitario> :(
<mako> give me a second
<Seveas> ok
<rob^> :(
<JaneW> jsgotangco: sadly not
* ploum is back in2 minutes ! very urgent thing
<mako> Virtuall: ok, you should try to build up your wiki page
<mako> Virtuall: it's a bit lacking in details and links to your contributions
<Virtuall> hhm
<mako> Virtuall: you should do that and we'll revisit it next time
<mako> if you have questions on how to do that, you should work with me outside of the meeting in the next week or two
<Virtuall> k... see you next meeting then :) or maybe earlier
<mako> rob^: you could probably deal with a little more info and links too :)
<mako> Virtuall: yes
<rob^> mako, yes
<mako> Mitario: i think we can handle you at the TB meeting next week
<Mitario> mako, okay
<mako> Mitario: since you are going for a much more technical and eventually maintainership) sort of thin, that seems fine
<mako> Mitario: your wiki page looks good
<Mitario> mako, yeah true
<Mitario> ok thanks :)
<Mitario> mako, do I need to put myself on a list somewhere for the TB meeting?
<mako> that leaves rbelem and ondrej
<rob^> mako, I added my three-liner
<mako> Mitario: put it on the tech board agenda (noted that it's also for CC membership)
<mako> rob^: cool, links to stuff you've done too
<Seveas> mako and jjesse 
<mako> right and jjesse, thanks
<Seveas> (who needs to work on his wiki page)
<rob^> mako, they are there now
<jjesse>  yes?
<ploum> so when are we delayed ?
<Seveas> didn't ploum get accepted?
<Mitario> mako, umm, in MaintainerCandidates or just on the agenda?
<jjesse> just a short intro about myself right?
<mako> Mitario: you can put yourselfs as a maintainercandidate if you think you're ready for that but also note that you need CC papproval at that meeting
<Seveas> jjesse, not now
<Mitario> mako, ok thanks :)
<mako> jjesse: probably not necessary, our council left
<Seveas> please work on your wikipage, so it contains all info about you
<jjesse> bummer :(
<mako> i'm reading through the wiki pages and giving people criticism
<Seveas> and come back in 2 weeks please
<jjesse> sure thing
<mako> jjesse: in your case, i'm not sure it really matters becauuse your wiki page is pretty think
<mako> thin even
<mako> jjesse: you should have link and in depth descriptions that demonstrate both a sustained and a significant contribution
<mako> you've got enough data there that i am sure it exists
<mako> but not enough so that i can see or verify it
<mako> you need both
<ploum> Seveas, well I'm not sure
<Seveas> ploum, me neither
<mako> ploum: you'll be fine
<jjesse> ok i will work on more information thank you for the criticism mako
<Seveas> ploum, in that case: congratz, welcome aboard!
<mako> jjesse: right, if you do that, it will be totally uncontroversial next week
<mako> ploum: well, unless sabdfl says otherwise, you'll be fine
<mako> and i find that very unikely
<ploum> Seveas and mako, thank you 
<rob^> its going to be a bit hard for me
<ploum> It's really great for me :-)
<Seveas> ploum, to be sure, come back next CC meeting
<rob^> due to the nature of my work, I can't give out some of the info
<mako> rbelem, and ondrej:
<jsgotangco> rob^: why not? you've made a lot of contributions to dcoteam
<mako> rbelem, and ondrej: are either of you still around?
<ploum> Seveas, when is it ?
<Seveas> ploum, in 2 weeks
<rbelem> mako, yep ;-)
<ondrej> here
<rob^> jsgotangco, yes, that I can put
<mako> rob^: why not?
<jsgotangco> rob^: well you don't have to say that, just  your contrib
<rob^> ok
<jsgotangco> mako: he works in a sensitive position
<mako> ok guys.. your pages look pretty good.. more links are better but i think you'll be fine.. we'll do you first next time :)
<mako> hmm
<ondrej> just updated my page with info from my three liner...
<Seveas> mako, I will update the wikipage later today and add some instructions for members-to-be
<ploum> Seveas, I have exams this week but well, we will see :-)  Thank you for advices and support today
<Seveas> ploum, good luck!
<ondrej> what's the next schedule for CC meeting?
<Seveas> mako, next meeting Aug 30 20:00?
<mako> jsgotangco, rob^: talked to me about it
<rbelem> mako, oki ,-)
<mako> sorry we didn't get to everyone today
<mako> is there any other business?
<jsgotangco> we crash?
<rob^> mako, now?
<mako> rob^: or later
<ondrej> just quick question...  LoCo team were approved?
<mako> privately is fine
<Seveas> ondrej, no approval needed
<mako> ondrej: don't need to be approved..
<mako> ondrej: but yes :)
<mako> if smurfix says they're good, they're good
<Nafallo> Seveas: not even smurfix-approval?
<ploum> mako, must I send you something GPG-signed ?
<Seveas> ploum, no
<Seveas> follow the instructions in launchpad
<mako> there's a new launchpad based system now
<Seveas> you will have to uploda it there
<segfault> Which are the next steps for the approved members?
<mako> i haven't actually entirely figured it out yet :)
<jsgotangco> the launchpad system rocks
<ogra> oh, its already working ? 
<Nafallo> I've always interpreted the wiki as smurfix-approval needed and cc-announcement as a nice gesture :-)
<jsgotangco> ogra: it does
<Seveas> segfault, upload a CoC to launchpad
<ogra> yay
<mako> Nafallo: that's right
<smurfix> Nafallo: true
<ploum> my launchpad page is broken :-(
<jsgotangco> even supermirror on it works
<segfault> already there :)
<ondrej> everyone launchpad page is broken...
<Seveas> segfault, then you're set
<Nafallo> yay! I'm the infomaniac ;-)
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: really? I didn't see any supermirror stuff on launchpad recently
<jsgotangco> oh
<Seveas> next datetime...?
<segfault> nice!
<jsgotangco> ajmitch: i get segfault when doing a baz archive-mirror though
<segfault> that's not my fault :P
<smurfix> this time through, locos have been adding themselves to the CC agenda without my involvement, which is OK by me -- it's as good an announcement of "I think we're ready to be official" as any
<Nafallo> smurfix: you were on VAC ;-)
<Seveas> mako..?
<mako> Seveas: whats up?
<Nafallo> figured we would do approval on the CC because of that :-)
<Seveas> next datetime...? <--
<mako> ah
<smurfix> Nafallo: I've been back long enough though ;-)
<mako> 22UTC two weeks from today
<Seveas> ok
<jsgotangco> ouch 22 again
<mitsuhiko> hi Yann2
<jsgotangco> :)
<mako> no
<mako> lets do it a little earlier
<mako> 20
<smurfix> mako: +1
<jsgotangco> noooo
<Nafallo> smurfix: well, I've talked to you, didn't I? :-)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Seveas] : Agendas: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas | Calendar: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/  | 17 Aug 14:00 UTC: Doc Team | 23? Aug ??:?? UTC Tech Board | 24 Aug 20:00 UTC: MOTU | 25 Aug 14:00 UTC: Doc Team | 30 Aug 22:00 UTC: Community Council
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Seveas] : Agendas: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas | Calendar: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/  | 17 Aug 14:00 UTC: Doc Team | 23? Aug ??:?? UTC Tech Board | 24 Aug 20:00 UTC: MOTU | 25 Aug 14:00 UTC: Doc Team | 30 Aug 20:00 UTC: Community Council
* jsgotangco dies
<rob^> 20 sound good to me
<mako> jsgotangco: you don't have to be here dude :)
<Seveas> See you all in 2 weeks then
<mako> jsgotangco: this is why we move it
<mako> jsgotangco: because not everyone can be at all of them :)
<jsgotangco> i like CC meetings even if its 4am
<mako> jsgotangco: we move it specifically so that you *don't* have to punish yourself 
<mako> jsgotangco: dude, if it was at 4am, *i* would consider not making it :)
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> it sucks to be the only one in this timezone at the moment
<Nafallo> meeting done? :-)
<ondrej> smurfix: maybe you should remove "AddYourSelfHere" from wiki page... :-)
<jsgotangco> i rarely get to attend TB at all
* Seveas steals chairmans hammer from mako and bangs on the table
<Seveas> meeting is over :)
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: don't worry, I don't think I've seen a TB meeting for 2 months or more :)
<smurfix> ondrej: Actually, this way works reasonably well, and it's less work for me, so it'll stay ;-)
<mako> Seveas: thanks :)
<Seveas> mako, have a flessenlikker :)
* Seveas is going home now
<mako> Seveas: good call
<ondrej> mako: ubuntu.cz is entirely in Canonical hands...  only thing left is that Canonical has to pay the bill :-)
<mako> i'm considering going back to sleep
<Seveas> sleep well
<jsgotangco> i should prepare to sleep ;)
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: yeah, ~3AM here now :)
<jsgotangco> christ i totally forgot ajmitch is in dunedin :)
<ajmitch> yeah, you going to be here at LCA in jan?
<jsgotangco> ill prepare for it
<ajmitch> great :)
<nmsa_KL> I missied it, I am looking for the MOM ...; have a good day !
<ogra__> nmsa_KL, MOM ?
<nmsa_KL> minutes of meeting
<ogra__> heh... ok
<ogra__> nmsa_KL,  http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/
<ogra__> MOM == merge o matic btw :)
<ogra__> its a tool we use
<nmsa_KL> so it's not public ?
<nmsa_KL> aaa, sorry :)
<rbelem> fabbione, 
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:mdz] : Agendas: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas | Calendar: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/  | 17 Aug 14:00 UTC: Doc Team | 23 Aug 2000h UTC Tech Board | 24 Aug 20:00 UTC: MOTU | 25 Aug 14:00 UTC: Doc Team | 30 Aug 20:00 UTC: Community Council
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-08-14
<Hobbsee> @schedule sydney
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 15 Aug 02:00: Community Council | 16 Aug 06:00: Technical Board | 17 Aug 06:00: Edubuntu | 18 Aug 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 23 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu | 24 Aug 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<Hobbsee> 3 and a half hours.  hmmm.
<zul> @schedule montreal
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 14 Aug 12:00: Community Council | 15 Aug 16:00: Technical Board | 16 Aug 16:00: Edubuntu | 17 Aug 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 23 Aug 08:00: Edubuntu | 24 Aug 03:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<licio> @schedule brazil
<licio> @schedule Sao_Paulo
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Sao_Paulo: 14 Aug 13:00: Community Council | 15 Aug 17:00: Technical Board | 16 Aug 17:00: Edubuntu | 17 Aug 20:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 23 Aug 09:00: Edubuntu | 24 Aug 04:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<licio> \o/
<poningru> @schedule tampa
<poningru> @schedule miami
<poningru> @schedule Atlanta
<poningru> ...
<zul> try new york
<poningru> @schedule New York
<poningru> true
<poningru> rofl
<poningru> @schedule New York City
* poningru goes to the full list
<licio> http://bugbot.ubuntulinux.nl/timezones.html
<poningru> @schedule Eastern
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Canada/Eastern: 14 Aug 12:00: Community Council | 15 Aug 16:00: Technical Board | 16 Aug 16:00: Edubuntu | 17 Aug 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 23 Aug 08:00: Edubuntu | 24 Aug 03:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<licio> \o/
<poningru> still lame ...
<poningru> I mean no Miami?? no Atlanta??
<cbx33> @schedule
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 14 Aug 16:00: Community Council | 15 Aug 20:00: Technical Board | 16 Aug 20:00: Edubuntu | 17 Aug 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 23 Aug 12:00: Edubuntu | 24 Aug 07:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<cbx33> @schedule
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 14 Aug 16:00: Community Council | 15 Aug 20:00: Technical Board | 16 Aug 20:00: Edubuntu | 17 Aug 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 23 Aug 12:00: Edubuntu | 24 Aug 07:00: Ubuntu Development Team
* AlexRocha is away: Away
<ogra> cbx33, and ? did it change in the last hour ?  :)
<cbx33> heh, i got timezone confusion sickness
<ogra> :)
<cbx33> thought the meeting was now
<ogra> 1h
<cbx33> yes I can see that
<cbx33> making me out to look stupid :p
* mode/#ubuntu-meeting [+o Seveas]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-meeting [-o Seveas]  by ChanServ
<Seveas> cbx33, try @now
<Seveas> @now
<Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: August 14 2006, 15:10:32 - Next meeting: Community Council in 49 minutes
<cbx33> @now
<Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: August 14 2006, 15:10:38 - Next meeting: Community Council in 49 minutes
<cbx33> thank you Seveas 
<nalioth> cbx33: you can also click on the meeting time at wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<matthewrevell> @now
<Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: August 14 2006, 15:31:56 - Next meeting: Community Council in 28 minutes
<licio> segfault, hi dude
<Meyer> :P
<segfault> meyer: hello!
<licio> :(
<licio> @schedule Sao_Paulo
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Sao_Paulo: 14 Aug 13:00: Community Council | 15 Aug 17:00: Technical Board | 16 Aug 17:00: Edubuntu | 17 Aug 20:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 23 Aug 09:00: Edubuntu | 24 Aug 04:00: Ubuntu Development Team
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Community Council | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 Aug 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 16 Aug 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 17 Aug 23:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 23 Aug 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 24 Aug 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<Seveas> hrm... editing the CC agenda caused X to chew much cpu power..
<cbx33> hi fschoep 
<fschoep> Hello Pete.
<fschoep> Has the meeting started yet?
<jenda> nope
<tseliot> let's wait
<Seveas> mako, elmo: who will be joining us today? sabdfl or kamion?
<mako> i hope so
<elmo> sabdfl should be
<ubuntu_demon> hi all
<elmo> kamion won't, he's on holiday
<tseliot> hi
<gnomefreak> isnt Kamion still on vacation?
<fschoep> I think he is, yes.
<Seveas> yeah, that would make it hard for him to join ;)
<ubuntu_demon> How's everyone doing ? :)
<ompaul> Seveas, ssh is your friend
<Seveas> ompaul, I wouldn't be joining on a holiday, ssh or not
<segfault> licio: hi
<elmo> sabdfl is trying to join but having network problems
<ogra> Seveas, Kamion is gone to some irish island where even phone lines are rare ...he wont e able to join, even if he wanted ;)
<cbx33> hahah
<gnomefreak> now thats getting away
<cbx33> I don;t think I could be without the net
<Seveas> kirjanov, matthewrevell, carthik, lloydinho, svaksha, tseliot: please prepare your 3-line intro so you can paste it when requested
<ompaul> ogra, there is more than one such island, however one of them got wireless broadband a month ago :) it was close enough to land for line of sight to work :)
<carthik> sure Seveas 
<matthewrevell> Seveas: Ready to go :)
<ogra> ompaul, i dounbt he has any computers with him ;)
<ogra> *doubt
<lfittl> Seveas: what about the people that have not yet been approved/declined by mako? should they also prepare their intro again?
<Seveas> lfittl, good question -- I'll leave it up to mako to answer it ;)
<mako> sabdfl: welcome
<Seveas> hi sabdfl !
<mako> lfittl: you've already been approved in launchpad
<ubuntu_demon> Hi sabdfl
<gnomefreak> hi sabdfl 
<mako> lfittl: sorry for not sending an email
<tseliot> welcome
<lfittl> mako: oh, thanks :)
<OgMaciel> congrats lfittl ;)
<jenda> congrats, lfittl ;)
<jenda> gah :-D
<gnomefreak> congrats lfittl 
<lfittl> thanks :D
<Seveas> mako, heh, you must have done that in the last 10 minutes, I just checked them ;)
<bddebian> lfittl!!  You are hiding from me? ;-)
<lfittl> bddebian: no, just had a lot to do ;)
<mako> i wanted to talk to sharms about one thing before i noted it in launchpad but everyone else has been noted
<gnomefreak> i havent seen sharms around since the issue
<sabdfl> hi all
<sabdfl> sorry, horrible connection here
<AndreNoel> hi
<bddebian> Hello sabdfl
<matthewrevell> sabdfl: hi
<fschoep> Hi Mark.
<tseliot> hi
<jenda> Hello sabdfl. So... will we start?
<sabdfl> apologies for being late
<ubuntu_demon> hi
<svaksha> sabdfl: hi
<sabdfl> and i'm likely to drop off unexpectedly, if i go quiet, that's what's potting
<byen> hello sabdfl .. and hello everyone
<sabdfl> who's here from the CC?
<Seveas> sabdfl, fschoep is on a time limit -- it may be useful to start with his agenda item
<Seveas> sabdfl, elmo, mako and yourself
<fschoep> Seveas: only if it's appropriate
<sabdfl> i also can't see https pages (ff2 bug:-)) so... what's on the agenda?
<sabdfl> mako, will you lead since i'm on the end of a damp straw?
<ompaul> sabdfl, msg me I'll paste it back to you 
<mako> yes, taht's fine
<Seveas> sabdfl, http://wiki.kaarsemaker.net/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<mako> alright, it's fine with me if we start with the artwork items
<Seveas> I quickly c-p'ed it to an non-https wiki 
<ubuntu_demon> That's quick ;)
<mako> fschoep: go ahead
<fschoep> OK, so basically I need your thoughts on the direction I drafted on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Specs/EdgyArtworkPlan/Propose/Results
* cbx33 gives Seveas a gold star
<jono> sorry got stuck in a meeting
<fschoep> If there are volunteers to take a look and comment what's on there, that would be awesome.
<Seveas> hi jono, no sweat we just started with the artwork item on the agenda
<fschoep> Then we've got cbx33 who's doing a good job on coming up with new soundscapes for Ubuntu sounds.
<cbx33> Seveas, can i use that wiki to paste my UbuntuSounds page?
<jono> I only have ten mins then I need to run
<Seveas> cbx33, sure
<fschoep> He posted examples and ideas on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuSounds, I'd like to ask if someone could post feedback on that, too.
<cbx33> http://wiki.kaarsemaker.net/UbuntuSounds - for sabdfl 
<Seveas> fschoep, usplash may need to display text (fsck progress)
<mako> fschoep: ok, looks great.. what in particular sort of feedback are you looking for?
<fschoep> Well, kind of looking for approval from "higher up" so we don't need to revert decisions later on.
<fschoep> If there's anything that looks out-of-line with Ubuntu I'd rather hear it now.
<gnomefreak> i thought we were working on getting away from the brown for edgy?
<cbx33> mako, if any of the sounds presented are along the right lines, I can refine and start to create the other sounds needed?
<fschoep> On the sounds, it'd be nice if some volunteers could listen to cbx33's work and comment on the level of professionalism and direction of the samples.
<ompaul> cbx33, is there a technical reason not to port and use those sounds as ogg?
<cbx33> ompaul, there is a historical reason
<ubuntu_demon> regarding the sound : I haven't listened to the samples yet but I like the drums you hear in the login screen we have currently
<mako> the circles concept is intriguing and seems ambitious.. seems like it would be very cool if it can, as the page says, live up to expectations
<LaserJock> cbx33: doh
<cbx33> I can produce oggs if required
<cbx33> you'd better hide LaserJock 
<ompaul> cbx33, fair enough
<fschoep> mako: thanks, I hope we can have some concrete work to show off soon.
<sabdfl> gnomefreak: human stays the default theme, but we have different teams working on alternate themes
<fschoep> gnomefreak: long story, for now we're still using brown, I hope that doesn't disappoint you.
<sabdfl> the best, if they are professional, will be included as alternates
<gnomefreak> fschoep: no not at all
<sabdfl> and in time, they may become the default, replacing Human
<fschoep> Also, as Mark states, we've got Theme Teams working on different ideas.
<jono> fschoep, can I sugges the bootup sound is shorter, when compared to windows, it drags on a little
<AndreNoel> fschoep: i like brown
<cbx33> jono, it was suggested it lasted the entire gnome startup....as a way to make us more distinctive to win/mac?
<fschoep> jono: sounds fair, what length are you thinking of?
<sabdfl> fschoep: can you tell us how the teamwork is... working?
<cbx33> but I'm open to suggestions
<sabdfl> CC is mostly interested in having a strong and constructive community
<fschoep> sabdfl: the teamwork withing the art-team or the separate Theme Teams?
<sabdfl> anything you need in terms of help on that front?
<sabdfl> fschoep: both
<jono> fschoep, something a little snappier, ~5 - 7 secs I was thinking
<sabdfl> we agreed a structure in Paris, is that working out OK?
<sabdfl> i know the CC needs to appoint the arts-council
<tseliot> about the sounds: I like sample 4
<fschoep> Right now I'd need some kind of official approval to start producing in the direction drafted.
<mako> jono: agreed
<mako> jono: about the length of the sound
<cbx33> mako, jono, noted !
<jono> I would be interested to sit down with the sounds team to have a discussion about it
<fschoep> The Theme Teams are all one-man armies right now, but they're managing fine. We could use some tutorials on Metacity and GTk themeing though.
<fschoep> The art team has been working very focused the past months and once we get an official stamp I'm sure we'll produce some amazing artwork.
<ogra> fschoep, i recently gave someone from your team a link to a meatcity howto
<jono> it would be good to look at ways to collaborate at a theme level as well as an artistic level
<ompaul> cbx33,  they seem to have a very sharp ending as if they were cut off in their prime, I am no musician but I know I would rather more fade out :)
<fschoep> ogra: sounds good, could you send it to frank@ffnn.nl as well perhaps :) ?
<ogra> fschoep, for your link collection: http://developer.gnome.org/doc/tutorials/metacity/metacity-themes.html
<ogra> ;)
<Seveas> fschoep, I am amazed at the rate of professionalization the art team showed over the past months
<cbx33> ompaul, noted !
<fschoep> Seveas: thanks. We kind of grinded to a halt a week ago because I'm the bottleneck right now.
<sabdfl> yes, very much thanks to troy_s and fschoep
<mako> fschoep: WRT the artwork, so my own only concern is that all the curves and circles in the context of a much glossier team has a very different meaning
<jono> right, sorry guys, I have to run to another OpenAdvantage meeting
<Seveas> ciao jono
<sabdfl> cheers jono
<fschoep> jono: see you!
<jono> do get in touch with me if I can help with anything in the interim, I will be back later
<mako> fschoep: it starts seeming more about aerodynamic machines, speed, etc than about humans and accessibility
<fschoep> It does? I didn't look at it that way.
<fschoep> Maybe I'm not following you?
<mako> just my $0.02
<ubuntu_demon> Okay I listened to them all. I liked the last one best. IMHO it should be a little more african and a little less christmasy
<fschoep> I'm interested in discussing that, shall we do that via e-mail later on?
<fschoep> ubuntu_demon: can you Wiki your comments?
<ubuntu_demon> that last comment was regarding the sound samples
<ubuntu_demon> fschoep: I will
<fschoep> Thanks!
<ubuntu_demon> fschoep: no problem :)
* sabdfl can't  
<cbx33> sabdfl, a mail would be cool - petesavage@ubuntu.com
* sabdfl can't see the site at all wit this connection
<mako> sabdfl: yikes :)
<fschoep> Also, would the technical board meeting be a good place to discuss these matters, too?
<sabdfl> but great to have someone tackling sound too
<cbx33> sabdfl, did you get my http version?
<cbx33> http://wiki.kaarsemaker.net/UbuntuSounds
<mako> i haven't listened to enough of the sounds to have formed a real opinion
<mako> fschoep: but the work looks great
<fschoep> mako: Thanks again :)
<gnomefreak> firefox crashes here upon clicking the sound files
<mako> fschoep: i'd say that the more people you can show this to before the fact, the better
<fschoep> Indeed, that's basically why you're seeing me here right now.
<mako> fschoep: although keep in mind that not everybody will or needs to love it
<KenSentMe> gnomefreak: lol, here also
<sabdfl> ok, let's keep goin. thanks fschoep, for the update and the great work
<ubuntu_demon> fschoep maybe get some forum input ? I can set up a sticky or something
* mako nods
<mako> ubuntu_demon: yes, that might be a great idea
<fschoep> ubuntu_demon: can you do that over a short period of time? Like the coming three days?
<ubuntu_demon> fschoep: ofcourse
<fschoep> Good idea I reckon.
<sabdfl> i'm going to quit here and try to get to a better connection
<sabdfl> sorry folks
<ubuntu_demon> fschoep: will discuss the details later
<fschoep> sabdfl: thanks
<cbx33> thanks sabdfl 
<Seveas> sabdfl, good luck!
<ubuntu_demon> hope you make it back sabdfl
<mako> ok
<mako> well lets handle other issues
<Seveas> In the mean time we can do locoteams
<mako> that's right
<fschoep> Thanks for your time everyone, I think I'll be going now (can use all the time right now).
<mako> we still have a number of general agenda items as well
<mako> and should probably try to pick up the pace a little bit
<mako> because the agenda is long
<Seveas> yeah, but irc was postponed especially to hear sabdfls opinion
<mako> is mahangu here?
<Seveas> no
<mako> ok.. 
<Seveas> his other nickname, lastnode is missing too
<mako> sriramadas?
<Seveas> amachu
<Seveas> nope, nothing from /whois
<mako> moving on
<mako> russell john?
<Seveas> ekushey
<Seveas> neither
<Seveas> Ivan Cherevko?
<mako> man :)
<Seveas> ronald odero?
<mako> at this rate, maybe the agenda isn't so long
<OgMaciel> hehe
<Seveas> yeah, we just went thtough all locos
<gnomefreak> try who is here?
<mako> is there anyone from a new, un-introduced loco team?
<mako> on or off the agenda?
<mako> alright then
<ompaul> there is this country but I am still working on it 
<Seveas> that leaves translation coordinator and kubuntu coordinator
<mako> right
<mako> OgMaciel: want to go?
<OgMaciel> mako, sure
<mako> oh wait
<mako> who proposed this?
<OgMaciel> hehe
<Riddell> carlos?
<carlos> hi
<elmo> sabdfl did
<mako> carlos: hey there
<elmo> according to the history
* JoeyStanford wants to express approval (and thanks) to Smurf's recent locoteam page changes to reflect the newly approved locos.
<Riddell> carlos: know anything about "Localisation / Translation Team Leader"?
<mako> carlos: can you give you background about the "Localisation / Translation Team Leader" position?
<carlos> I think Daf had that position
<carlos> and I'm not quite sure whether I should take that role now
<carlos> I think we should take someone from the community
<mako> ok, can you can describe what is involved with the position?
<carlos> because daf hadn't enough time to attend that position and I don't think that either danilo or I will have enough time either
<OgMaciel> mako, +1
<carlos> well, I think his main position atm would be to help us to coordinate with all teams to improve the QA problems we have atm
<Seveas> that would rock
<carlos> that's the most common problem we get from upstream related with Ubuntu translations
<LaserJock> would this be something that maybe the new Ubuntu Community Manager could coordinate?
<LaserJock> getting the person I mean
<carlos> it's a matter of improving Rosetta
<carlos> in one side
<carlos> and teach our translators also to use the infrastructure
* OgMaciel nods
<danilos> hi carlos
<mako> alright
<danilos> hey mako
<mako> danilos: hey there
<mako> there is only one person that has volunteered so far
<mako> but there seems to many things still up in the air
<carlos> danilos: hi, we are talking about the "Localisation / Translation Team Leader" position for Ubuntu
<carlos> mako: he should have a bit of experience as translator
<mako> perhaps the best thing we can do is explain what someone who was interested in this would do, and who they would talk to find out more
<OgMaciel> mako, +1
<carlos> mako: I guess danilo and I could help there
<danilos> carlos: ah, ok, I'd be glad to help with the choice and describing what should one usually do
<carlos> also to know at least if we believe that he/she has enough knowledge about the problems related to l10n/i18n
<carlos> mako: also, danilos shares that position in GNOME project
<danilos> yeah, I'm sure I can give a couple of hints here and there
<Seveas> danilos, carlos: then maybe it would be useful if you add a short 'job description' to the wiki page
* mako nods
<danilos> now, do you already have a set of desired "tasks" for such a person?
<AndreNoel> Seveas: +1
<OgMaciel> mako, want to skip the topic and continue, since there's a lot of things up for grabs?
<danilos> what's the wiki page?
<OgMaciel> mako, we could come back later
<Seveas> danilos, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<mako> alright then
<mako> i'm not sure this belongs on the CC agenda
<mako> if sabdfl feels strongly that it does, i'd love to hear why
<mako> in any case
<Seveas> it's a start -- we could easily put it somewhere else
<mako> right
<carlos> Seveas: ok. We will try to have a meeting this week about that and prepare something
<carlos> danilos: is that ok for you?
<mako> danilos, carlos: thanks for filling in the blanks
<mako> OgMaciel: and thanks for volunteering
<danilos> carlos: sure, sounds fine
<mako> what about the kubuntu community coordinator?
<carlos> mako: you are welcome
<OgMaciel> mako, my pleasure... and am still extremelly interested
<Riddell> mako: that's my item
<mako> danilos, OgMaciel: you two should probably coordinate
<OgMaciel> mako, will do
<mako> Riddell: run with it :)
<AndreNoel> Og is doing a very great work at Ubuntu Brazilian Portuguese Translators
<Seveas> Riddell, care to elaborate a bit? Wouldn't it be part of Jono's job?
<danilos> mako: np, OgMaciel, feel free to ping me on IRC as "danilos" whenever you wish
<OgMaciel> danilos, how about now? ;)
<OgMaciel> thanks AndreNoel ;)
<Riddell> mako: myself and the kubuntu developers want to entitle Hobssee as Kubuntu Community Coordinator...
<Riddell> she has a lot of ideas and is doing a good amount of organising and bringing people into kubuntu so we want to empower her to do that more
<danilos> OgMaciel: well, if it's not for too long, and I'd like to think about all of that first (they just got me into it, and I haven't even read the wiki page): sometimes during the week sounds better
<elmo> Riddell: "empower" how?
<Riddell> it's not paticularly related to jono
<elmo> Riddell: how not?
<OgMaciel> danilos, carlos here's some baxkground info:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OgMaciel...  let me know when it's a good time for you
<mdz> what would be involved?  listing Hobbsee as a point of contact for people wishing to get involved seems like a reasonable thing to do
<carlos> OgMaciel: sure, thanks
<Riddell> elmo: by giving her our appoval to tell people how best to contribute to kubuntu
<danilos> OgMaciel: thanks a lot; do you also hang around #ubuntu channels occasionally?
<Riddell> elmo: because I hope jono will be doing his stuff for kubuntu too :)
<OgMaciel> dAndy_, occasionaly... I spend most of my time at the brazilin channels ;)
* mako nods to mdz
<Riddell> mdz: yes, that's about right
<mako> Riddell: to what extend does she do that already?
<Riddell> mako: a fairly large extent, but she feels nervous to tell people what to do unless she knows she's backed by the kubuntu developers
<mako> well, you have no objections from me :)
<gnomefreak> she got me started learning merges and kubuntu related bugs
<mako> and if you've brought it here, i assume that means there are no objections from you either
<Riddell> the kubuntu council are happy with it, I'm just after a nod of approval from here and we'll let her run with it for a few months to see what she achieves
<OgMaciel> I am very impressed by the fact that Riddell came here to appoint someone he trusts
<mako> well, it sounds great to me
<Riddell> rocking
<OgMaciel> that shows good management skills to me
<Riddell> thanks
<mako> elmo?
<mako> sabdfl might appear again soon as well
<mako> we'll see
<elmo> he's enroute to the office
<elmo> anyway, eh, ok by me I guess
<Seveas> so we've run out of items for now I guess -- should we take a break?
<bddebian> I have to head to a meeting but let me add a +1 for carthik for membership before I go :-)
<OgMaciel> Seveas, I'd like a word with you if we do take a break
<carthik> thanks bddebian 
<Seveas> OgMaciel, sure
<ompaul> elmo, is there an eta? if so maybe we should take that many minutes less 5
<elmo> ompaul: he's just sat down
<ompaul> elmo, short break :)
<gnomefreak> lol
<mako> alright then
<mako> is there any other business before we move on to new member candidates?
<OgMaciel> mako, you decided if you're coming down next week?
<mako> OgMaciel: i just sent you an email about it
<OgMaciel> oh
<OgMaciel> ;)
<Seveas> nothing on the agenda -- maybe someone has an impromptu item?
<ubuntu_demon> OgMaciel , mako do you talk about ubucon ?
<mako> we have not talked about ubucon
<ubuntu_demon> Seveas: I have something
<OgMaciel> Seveas, I do have a topic
<Seveas> ubuntu_demon, well give it a shot -- sabdfl is not here yet
<mako> ubuntu_demon: goa head
* OgMaciel taking a quick bio break  ;)
<ubuntu_demon> Only a small question : I wanted to know whether it makes sense to sponsor some forum staff members to ubucon or to UDSWiesbaden. (I know Mark wants some of us attending some Ubuntu conventions)
<elmo> ok, so unfortunately sabdfl can't make this meeting, he's run out of time
<jenda> :(
<carthik> aww
<ubuntu_demon> :(
<jenda> So will member candidates have to wait for his approval later on?
<mako> ubuntu_demon: you'll have to talk to folks at canonical about that but i thin kthat some of these meetings do not have any funded travel
<mako> ubuntu_demon: so it's less likely
<ubuntu_demon> I thought so
<elmo> ubuntu_demon: canonical's not involved in ubucon at all, so that's unlikely (tho I can't/don't speak for Canonical)
<ubuntu_demon> one of the reasons I asked was that IMHO it would be good to have Ryan talking IRL with you / Mark
<mako> ubuntu_demon: when mark was talking about funding travel to conferences, i think he was he speaking specifically of ubuntu developer summits
<mako> ubuntu_demon: i will not be at ubucon
<mako> i don't know if mark will be
<mako> in any case
<ubuntu_demon> mako: okay clear. Can you contact Ryan regarding the forum guidelines draft ? 
<mako> ubuntu_demon: yes
<ubuntu_demon> mako : thank you very much
<jenda> Ryan was here a while ago...
<tseliot> yep he was here
<ubuntu_demon> I guess he run out of time. He's a busy guy :)
<mako> alright
<Seveas> mako, what to do now - postpone the rest?
<ubuntu_demon> he told me he hadn't very much time tonight
<mako> Seveas: elmo and i are talkinga bout that
<OgMaciel> Seveas, I have a topic
<Seveas> mako, ok
<Seveas> OgMaciel, ok, shoot
<OgMaciel> ok
<mako> ok, i think we're going to need to postpone until next week
<mako> because we are not quorate
<Seveas> mako, we could at least hear OgMaciel out ;)
<OgMaciel> ;)
<mako> oh that's fine
<OgMaciel> ok
<mako> we can continue on other business
<mako> but in terms of new member candidtes
<mako> colin will not be back until next week
<mako> and it's unlikely that if even if we approve without voting this week, people won't get approved until he returns anyway
<OgMaciel> mako, elmo I would like to create a Canonical "backed" community council for the Brazilian team
<ogra> and then be busy at the distro sprint ..
<mako> ogra: hmm
<elmo> OgMaciel: eh - how do you mean  Canonical backed?
<OgMaciel> elmo, we currently have a situation
<Seveas> OgMaciel, shouldn't that be 'community council' backed?
<carthik> Thanks folks, next week, then.
<mako> i think he means CC backed
<OgMaciel> elmo, where all control is under one person
<OgMaciel> yes, CC-backed
<OgMaciel> this has caused trouble
<OgMaciel> quite a lot actually
<mako> OgMaciel: how many active participants in the br-loco community are there?
<AlexRocha> OgMaciel +1
* jenda remarks that it could be useful in other places too. We have separationists as well, and they refuse the CC. In some cases, it could be a problem.
<birula> OgMaciel: +1
<AndreNoel> OgMaciel: +1
* jenda = Czech LoCo
<OgMaciel> in order to avoid further confusion, I think a CC-appointed group would solve the problem
<OgMaciel> mako, I'd say actively about 30
<mako> OgMaciel: how big of a decision-making team are you suggesting?
<OgMaciel> mako, that includes doc team
<mako> sure
<OgMaciel> mako, about 7
<OgMaciel> mako, made up of different divisions
<OgMaciel> mako, doc, trans, data miners, forum
<OgMaciel> a true council
<OgMaciel> with shared obligations
<OgMaciel> and decisions
<OgMaciel> but if we choose the members, it would cause trouble
<OgMaciel> people's egos would get in the way
<mako> who is we?
<OgMaciel> mako, the people who work day in, day out
<OgMaciel> me for instance
<AlexRocha> OgMaciel: this is the way, very good the proposal ;)
<OgMaciel> thanks alenitchev 
<OgMaciel> AlexRocha, 
<mako> it puts the CC in a difficult position because, unlike those people, we're not particularly familiar with the current team
<OgMaciel> AlexRocha, sorry... tab completion
<OgMaciel> mako, true
<mako> how would you propose things move forward?
<Meyer> well.. i think this is a one-sided version of the story.. but i dont think this is the place to discuss it
<OgMaciel> mako, we could get some people to step up
<jenda> So - no membership proposals today?
* jenda has gotta run if they ain't
<gnomefreak> jenda: not likelu
<gnomefreak> likely
<jenda> OK, lator then.
<Seveas> jenda, ciao
<ubuntu_demon> jenda: bye
<ompaul> jenda, that is the case hour:05
<mako> we might do introductions of people that cannot come to a meeting next week
<tseliot> jenda: bye
<matthewrevell> mako: That would be handy ... it's unlikely I could make a meeting next week
* svaksha can get some shuteye if there is no meeting for now
<Seveas> Meyer, I think it is -- some other teams (forums and irc) also have a CC backed solution for a dispute resolution team
<OgMaciel> Seveas, +1
<segfault> hi
<Seveas> Meyer, and you can't deny that the .br team has a dispute to solve
<jenda> would be handy... /me gets his support stick ready.
<mako> Meyer: there's no sides to be taking here
<Meyer> no.. that i can't.. but it seems to me as a personal agenda of his.. 
<OgMaciel> Seveas, it is because of these disputes that I am asking the CC to step in
<mako> Meyer: there are at least some people who feel that the current process is both problematic and undemocratic
<mako> Meyer: that's the problem
<Seveas> Meyer, it is on the  personal agenda of everyone involved
<Meyer> if he wants to go this way, we'd gladly resign..
<mako> Meyer: the problem is not that it *is* undemocratic or *is* problematic
<mako> Meyer: but that it appears that way that people
<LaserJock> why wouldn't problems be brought to the CC? Isn't that one of it's purposes?
<OgMaciel> LaserJock, +1
<Seveas> LaserJock, it is
<Meyer> i have no problem at all taking this to the CC.. just think everything could have been solved by talking it out
<ogra> ++
<Seveas> Meyer, great idea, please do so
<Meyer> i've tried
<Meyer> these ppl talk one way to us.. and another to the community's public
<ogra> discuss in public ? 
<Meyer> also tried
<mako> alright
<ogra> well, that should have solved the above at least, no ?
<mako> this isn't going anywhere
<Meyer> since they want it so much, i'm offering my position
<Meyer> and i think licio and segfault too.. but i cannot speak for them
<mako> if there are specific issues or disputes, the CC would be happy to consider them
<Seveas> Meyer, OgMaciel: we're talking about an 'abstract' problem -- I know quite a bit about it already but others don't. Maybe you both could write down your sides of the story
<OgMaciel> mako, just FYI, nobody asked no one to "resign"
<OgMaciel> Seveas, sure thing
<mako> well there are at least two issues
<ogra> how about preparing a summary (two summaries to see both sides) on the wiki for next meeting
<mako> there are concerns about the nature of the leadership team on the brazilian loco
<segfault> the root of all problem is that ogmaciel is trying to be the brazilian team leader
<mako> namely that there are a few people who are not particularly active or responsive any more
<OgMaciel> ogra, I could try to attend the next meeting
<segfault> which is acctually meyer
<OgMaciel> segfault, I am asking for a council
<OgMaciel> segfault, no single leader
<segfault> dunno what to do in this situation
<Meyer> a council of your trusted people
<OgMaciel> Meyer, I asked the CC to appoint
<mako> Meyer: he certainly hasn't asked me that
<Meyer> he has asked that to us...
<mako> well, that's not really material here
<OgMaciel> mako, Seveas elmo ogra this is very important to solve as quick and smooth as possible
<Meyer> segfault, has seen it
<OgMaciel> Meyer, please don't make up stuff about it
<OgMaciel> mako, +1
<mako> Meyer: we're not going to make any decision based on private emails that OgMaciel has sent you
<OgMaciel> mako, which I didn't btw
<Meyer> they were sent to a hole bunch of ppl.. including segfault 
<segfault> yup.
<OgMaciel> mako, I have suggested that we include the active people
<OgMaciel> mako, some of them are here present
<OgMaciel> mako, it makes sense to me that a council be made of people who are present in the community
<AndreNoel> well, none mails i've sent to meyer or segfault was answered when i came in the community... i think that a council would be more participative... and more helpful
<OgMaciel> mako, I cannot help that I work with them every day
<gnomefreak> what about appointing an outside group to act as CC for the br team that way its general not a sided
<OgMaciel> gnomefreak, that could work
<mako> alright
<mako> this isn't going anywhere
<OgMaciel> yup
<OgMaciel> afraid so
<mako> OgMaciel: you seem to be asking that the currently leadership team for the brazilian loco be dissolved and that a new be created
<OgMaciel> mako, the problem is that there is none
<mako> as, that there is no leadership team at the moment
<AndreNoel> why not joining with the actual leadership?
<segfault> i guess Meyer is the actual leader
<nixternal> Chicago Loco has 30+ active, with a 100+ interested and helping out when possible. We don't do a "leadership" type of thing, as everyone is a leader of "their" project. I think this has created an amazing environment for the Chicago team, but I don't know if it works with others, we just got lucky maybe ;)
<nixternal> and we are all working on creating patches for bug #1 ;)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 1 in ubuntu-meta "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<nixternal> oops
<mako> OgMaciel: alright, write up a proposal for a leadership team
<mako> have it explain the shortcomings of not having one and the benefits of having one
<OgMaciel> mako, I could do that
<mako> Meyer, segfault: it sounds like part of the problem is that certain tasks are very centralized
<mako> right now
<OgMaciel> mako, +1
<Meyer> not at all.. each part of the community does what it can...
<Meyer> OgMaciel, wants it all
<OgMaciel> Meyer, once again... pay attention... I am asking for the creation of a council
<AndreNoel> sounds that og is like darth vader
<segfault> he wants to centralize it. :-)
<birula> AndreNoel: :P
<mako> segfault, Meyer: well, there is zero chance of that happening through the CC
<AndreNoel> og is not that monster
<OgMaciel> segfault, centralize it around a council... yes
<segfault> some time ago i was absent because of personal problems, and recently i gave him the ownership of i18n team
<segfault> but i dunno why he wants to take meyer position
<mako> what is meyer's position, you both just said things were completely decentralized?
<Seveas> segfault, I don't think 'owning' is the correct word and he doesn't seem to want to take meyers position...
<OgMaciel> segfault, it is all explained here:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OgMaciel
<OgMaciel> Seveas, thanks
<Meyer> i'm doing infrastructure and events mostly
<OgMaciel> segfault, you were absent for 8 months and I asked you to step down
<mako> Meyer: are you opposed to sharing those responsibilities
<Meyer> nope
<segfault> hahaha 8 months!? what a lier
<Meyer> segfault, also has infrastructure admin access
<OgMaciel> segfault, please don't use these terms... we're talking here
<Meyer> there are other ppl doing events too
<OgMaciel> AndreNoel, would you tell people how often you've seen segfault ?
<OgMaciel> AlexRocha, you too
<AndreNoel> well, not answer my mail yet...
<mako> ok, are you opposed to sharing those responsibilities with people who might not completely take your side during this argument?
<Meyer> OgMaciel, segfault has been missing since april.. that's when his kid was born
<Seveas> OgMaciel, segfault, Meyer (and al others): please don't do personal attacks in here
<Meyer> mako, not at all..
<segfault> i'm really disappointed with you Ogmaciel, i've never imagined that you could speak this way
<OgMaciel> mako, anyhow, this is getting personal... I will write what you've asked me and get back to the CC
<segfault> since i helped you in the beginning, and introduced you to the ubuntu community
<segfault> its really sad
<OgMaciel> I apologized to everyone who had to witness this
<mako> Meyer,segfault: do you think that executive council for you team would be a bad thing?
<segfault> mako: i see no problem with that, never had
<Meyer> there is one.. the thing is that Og feels bad cause he doesn't have majority
<mako> segfault: ok
<Meyer> so he tries to sabotage it
<rodarvus> segfault, Meyer, OgMaciel: again, please calm down.
* JoeyStanford notes that this conversation violates the Code of Conduct.
<rodarvus> personal attacks won't take you anywere
<OgMaciel> JoeyStanford, +1
<AndreNoel> JoeyStanford: +1
<mako> people are clearly very upset
<birula> JoeyStanford: :1
<birula> +1
<mako> my basic position is that i'm not opposed to a council
<JoeyStanford> Might I suggest this be tabled and sorted out off line.
<mako> but i don't wnat it to be created because of interpersonal politics
<OgMaciel> mako, +1
<ubuntu_demon> I'm leaving. If anyone needs me try contacting me on irc or PM'ing me on the forums. Bye!
<mako> you all need to think real hard about what sort of system you'd want for hte team
<mako> ubuntu_demon: cool
<Meyer> mako, i alerady said it.. i'm willing to resign if you guys feels its for the best
<mako> Meyer: i don't know enough about the situation to have opinion either way
<Meyer> we created the council based on the same system as the CC...
<rodarvus> I'd say both sides expose your points on some wiki page, and agree on a meeting (with external invitees) later this week
<Meyer> a group of members (basically @u.c) tha voted for it..
<rodarvus> this is a problem the br-loco-team should learn to handle by itself
<OgMaciel> rodarvus, the problem is that we have reached a stand off
<mako> you're going to need to describe teh current problem
<Seveas> rodarvus, it's the first locoteam to come to the CC so might be a good experience for the council too
<OgMaciel> rodarvus, and in order to preserve the community I am asking the CC to step in
<mako> OgMaciel: you're asking in a slightly bizarre way
<rodarvus> Seveas, good point
<segfault> como esse cara  chato.
<mako> there are two many issues being conflated together here
<AndreNoel> segfault: talk it in english
<mako> if there are specific unresolved problems with the team and an actionable step that can be taken to resolve them, that's fine
<mako> if there are structural problems that can be remedied, tat's fine too
<mako> but we have both of those issues and much more
<mako> and it's basically degenerating into personal attacks
<OgMaciel> mako, the issues can be summed up in the following...  I believe a brazilian made CC would be appropriate and resolve some issues
<mako> we don't need a high level summary
<mako> we need specific actionable proposals with specific, well defined, problems
<OgMaciel> mako, and it is too bad that some of the people who agree with me and are here cannot express themselves in english
<mako> the problem is that it's not even clear what the disagreement is
<JoeyStanford> (Eu penso que este necessita ser discutido em outra parte. Eu no penso que este tpico deve ser discutido aqui. H uns muitos da emoo com este tpico.)
<mako> what is clear is the personal problems
<segfault> yup, we can move on
<AlexRocha> OgMaciel I
<segfault> let's write down the problems and take it to another meeting
* mako nods to segfault 
<mako> alright
<OgMaciel> mako, I will accept what the CC decides to do next
<mako> so we are not quorate so we're going to have to postpone until next tuesday 16UTC
<segfault> exposing the problems and its possible solutions, we've taken too much time here
<OgMaciel> JoeyStanford, thanks for the feedback
<Seveas> mako, you sure sabdfl and elmo will make it?
<matthewrevell> mako: Is there any way to introduce myself, in prep for membership consideration?
<mako> kamion and elmo will make it
<Seveas> ok
<mako> maybe mark
<Seveas> matthewrevell, next week ;)
<mako> if there is anybody that definitely cannot make it next week
<matthewrevell> Seveas: Yeah, getting to this meeting was difficult enough...
<mako> speak up now
<matthewrevell> mako: me:)
<AlexRocha> JoeyStanford, se no for discutido aqui, no ser resolvido por fora :(
<JoeyStanford> Og: welcome. 
<mako> you may end up having to come back again in the future
<gnomefreak> tuesday at 1600?
<mako> 1600UTC
<gnomefreak> k
<mako> and it may make things slower, to go today
* OgMaciel may not be able to attend next Tuesday
<mako> that's fine
<mako> it will ONLY be for membership applications
<OgMaciel> cool
<mako> a 1h meeting
<mako> alright matthewrevell go ahead
<Seveas> mako, ok, I updated the agenda
<matthewrevell> mako: thank you :)
<matthewrevell> I've promoted Ubuntu on LugRadio and at LugRadio Live. We've also provided a platform for Ubuntu to reach the wider community.
<matthewrevell> I've been at the core of the Marketing Team's renewal and a regular contributor to the new Fridge. I look forward to Ubuntu as the world's favourite operating system, because it's excellent software and it spreads freedom!
<matthewrevell> That's my, slightly long, intro.
<mako> sounds good
* ompaul cheers for matthewrevell 
<matthewrevell> mako: mdke said he'd mailed in a +1 for me.
<matthewrevell> ompaul: thanks :)
<gnomefreak> +1 for matthewrevell 
<Seveas> \o/ for matthewrevell from me, module the not too long direct ivolvement. I have no doubt though that the involvement will continue
<mako> i appreciate your work on the fridge
<nixternal> mako: matthewrevell has and is doing a lot for the "advocational" side of the community.  he is an outstanding candidate for membership, as i enjoy working along side with him on a daily basis!
<mako> matthewrevell: how long have you been directly involved?
* eyequeue notes matthewrevell also added that to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MatthewRevell and applauds
<matthewrevell> mako: In the community directly? Since June.
* Seveas was mistaken then
<Seveas> I thought it was later ;)
<matthewrevell> Seveas: slow burner :)
<JoeyStanford> +1 for Matthew Revell
<mako> matthewrevell: great, sounds good :)
<mako> thanks for showing up and sitting through this
<ompaul> mako, he is rather active, to put it very politely 
* JoeyStanford laughs.
<mako> right, we look for significant and sustained contributions
<mako> i don't think there's any argument about the significant part
<mako> i like to see folks around for a couple months personallly as well
<mako> so it seems you've snuck under the wire :)
<matthewrevell> mako: I waited especially :)
<nixternal> i think he has been around longer then june honestly
<gnomefreak> ive seen him before june but i didnt notice how active he was
<Seveas> matthewrevell, which one are you on http://www.tecspy.com/loveslugradio/ellr04.jpg?
<matthewrevell> Seveas: oof, top frame, next to jono
<mako> alright then
<ompaul> mako, by next week it will be sustained his first post that I noted was: 26/06/06 15:25 however I was kind of surprised when I got it as he had been in irc for Jun 09 12:55:05 *       matthewrevell (i=synchron@silenceisdefeat.org) has joined #ubuntu-marketing 
<jenda> Ah, are we talking about matthewrevell? :)
<mako> alright sounds goods
* matthewrevell nods
* Seveas has to go -- fiancee is calling
<mako> matthewrevell: you should wait for approval by elmo, kamion, or sabdfl
<Seveas> see you all next week
<mako> and that's the end of the meeting :)
<matthewrevell> mako: thanks
<mako> great
<matthewrevell> Seveas: bye
<mako> matthewrevell: thanks for showing up
<jenda> He is a priceless asset in my opinion - experience and skills many times proved, devotion repeatedly observed.
<nixternal> mako: thanks for the approval today, greatly appreciated ;)
<matthewrevell> jenda: Cheers :)
* mako nod to nixternal 
<jenda> gratz, nixternal. Welcome to the team, officially and all stamps down 
* jenda finally leaves for good
<nixternal> muhahah...i mean oh thanks
<matthewrevell> right, I must go and finish a report. THanks all.
<ompaul> nixternal, be nice
<gnomefreak> jenda: leave for good?
<jenda> gnomefreak: for tonight
<gnomefreak> oh
<jenda> *gone*
<ompaul> was it something I said :)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 Aug 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 16 Aug 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 17 Aug 23:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 23 Aug 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 24 Aug 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Aug 20:00 UTC: Technical Board
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 Aug 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 16 Aug 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 17 Aug 23:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 22 Aug 16:00 UTC: Community Council | 23 Aug 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 24 Aug 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-08-15
<BlueT_> @schedule
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 15 Aug 20:00: Technical Board | 16 Aug 20:00: Edubuntu | 17 Aug 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 22 Aug 16:00: Community Council | 23 Aug 12:00: Edubuntu | 24 Aug 07:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<BlueT_> @schedule taipei
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Asia/Taipei: 16 Aug 04:00: Technical Board | 17 Aug 04:00: Edubuntu | 18 Aug 07:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 23 Aug 00:00: Community Council | 23 Aug 20:00: Edubuntu | 24 Aug 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<Lure> @schedule Ljubljana
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Ljubljana: 15 Aug 22:00: Technical Board | 16 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu | 18 Aug 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 22 Aug 18:00: Community Council | 23 Aug 14:00: Edubuntu | 24 Aug 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<zul> @schedule now
<GNAM> @schedule rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 15 Aug 22:00: Technical Board | 16 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu | 18 Aug 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 22 Aug 18:00: Community Council | 23 Aug 14:00: Edubuntu | 24 Aug 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<GNAM> wow a meeting
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Technical Board | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 16 Aug 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 17 Aug 23:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 22 Aug 16:00 UTC: Community Council | 23 Aug 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 24 Aug 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<Keybuk> ok, so who's here
<Keybuk> mjg59, mdz ?
<mdz> I'm here
<mdz> but my phone won't stop ringing
<mdz> please carry on and I'll participate as I'm able
<Keybuk> I wish my phone would ring
<Keybuk> so first up, ubuntu-core-dev
<Keybuk> I have nobody on my list who has applied in the last two weeks
<Keybuk> and ubuntu-dev
<Keybuk> I also have nobody on the  list who has applied in the last two weeks
<mdz> by all indications, the agenda is empty
<Keybuk> is there anybody who thought they had applied ?
<Keybuk> otherwise we'll move on to any other business
<mdz> there was one which was retracted via dholbach
<Keybuk> yeah, I saw that one
<Keybuk> ok, clearly not
<Keybuk> any other business?
<Keybuk> . o O { was there a lunch, or something? }
<Keybuk> nope, right
<Keybuk> adjourned
<Keybuk> THANKS EVERYBODY
<Keybuk> :D
<mdz> Keybuk: somebody say lunch?  I haven't eaten
<ogra> wow, that was a short one ... 7 mins :)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 16 Aug 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 17 Aug 23:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 22 Aug 16:00 UTC: Community Council | 23 Aug 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 24 Aug 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Aug 20:00 UTC: Technical Board
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-08-16
<poningru> @schedule eastern
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Canada/Eastern: 16 Aug 16:00: Edubuntu | 17 Aug 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 22 Aug 12:00: Community Council | 23 Aug 08:00: Edubuntu | 24 Aug 03:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Aug 16:00: Technical Board
<rodarvus> @now Sao_Paulo
<Ubugtu> Current time in America/Sao_Paulo: August 16 2006, 08:01:45 - Next meeting: Edubuntu in 8 hours 58 minutes
<CyberKing> !ping me
<jsgotangco> @schedule manila
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Asia/Manila: 17 Aug 04:00: Edubuntu | 18 Aug 07:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 23 Aug 00:00: Community Council | 23 Aug 20:00: Edubuntu | 24 Aug 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 30 Aug 04:00: Technical Board
<jsgotangco> YAY
<simira> @schedule oslo
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Oslo: 16 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu | 18 Aug 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 22 Aug 18:00: Community Council | 23 Aug 14:00: Edubuntu | 24 Aug 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Aug 22:00: Technical Board
<simira> @schedule wiesbaden
<simira> @schedule frankfurt
<azeem> try Berlin
<ogra> yeah, germany is somehow reduced to it ... :)
<azeem> @schedule Munich
<azeem> outrageious
<simira> @schedule berlin
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 16 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu | 18 Aug 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 22 Aug 18:00: Community Council | 23 Aug 14:00: Edubuntu | 24 Aug 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Aug 22:00: Technical Board
<rodarvus> ogra, well, according to timezones, brazil is reduced to Sao_Paulo
<jsgotangco> imperial capitals!
<rodarvus> (I think brazil is at least about 10-15x bigger than Germany ;)
<azeem> probably Sao Paulo is 10-15x bigger than Berlin as well
<rodarvus> nah, berlin is rather big (3.5 million habitants)
<rodarvus> Sao Paulo only has 17 million habitants :D
<licio> oO
<zul> @schedule montreal
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 16 Aug 16:00: Edubuntu | 17 Aug 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 22 Aug 12:00: Community Council | 23 Aug 08:00: Edubuntu | 24 Aug 03:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Aug 16:00: Technical Board
<nalioth> @now
<Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: August 16 2006, 14:14:03 - Next meeting: Edubuntu in 5 hours 45 minutes
<highvoltage> @schedule johannesburg
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Africa/Johannesburg: 16 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu | 18 Aug 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 22 Aug 18:00: Community Council | 23 Aug 14:00: Edubuntu | 24 Aug 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Aug 22:00: Technical Board
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Edubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 17 Aug 23:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 22 Aug 16:00 UTC: Community Council | 23 Aug 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 24 Aug 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Aug 20:00 UTC: Technical Board
<sbalneav> So, where's the doughnuts?
<sbalneav> Not a proper meeting without doughnuts
* cbx33 passes a doughnut to sbalneav 
<sbalneav> Ah, perfect.
<cbx33> sbalneav, and to drink sir?
<cbx33> we have a very rich '68
<sbalneav> Ummmm.... Coffee.  Double Double.
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> coming right up
<sbalneav> Thank you.  Service here is excellent.  I'll be back.
<RichEd> hi ... back in 2 mins ...
<cbx33> w00t, my work here is done 
* RichEd shakes up a martini for sbalneav 
<sbalneav> Man, a martini!?!  I gotta come to these meetings more often.
<rodarvus> hi guys
<cbx33> hey rodarvus 
* highvoltage sees that the south africans are gaining market share here :)
* sbalneav puts on his red robe and Fez and changes into slippers.
<ogra> evening
* cbx33 sips his earl grey
<highvoltage> hi ogra
<sbalneav> hey ogra
<RichEd> hello ogra
<cbx33> dang it man..../me reaches for the diet coke, and passes one to highvoltage  :p
<willvdl> hey y'all
<cbx33> hi ogra 
<ogra> highvoltage, thanks for the agenda update i didnt save fast enough ;)
<highvoltage> np :)
<ogra> so, lets get started
<RichEd> ogra ... you drive ? i'll do next wek when you are sprinting ?
<ogra> i have to admit i was slacking a bit wrt CD images and edubuntu-meta, so i cant say much about the iso image status today, but i'll make sure they are usable on the weekend
<cbx33> we know you've been busy ogra 
<ogra> on the other hand, do we have local devices nearly done ... thanks a lot to sbalneav who did the moreimportant stuff like writing a suid wrapper to make pitti happy :)
<rodarvus> :)
<LaserJock> \o/
<LaserJock> that's a big one
<ogra> and i must say its the coolest localdev implementation this world has wever seen
<ogra> *ever
<ogra> its really really sexy :)
<cbx33> :D:D
<rodarvus> nice
<highvoltage> wow. does that work like local devs on ltsp.org, or the fancy stuff that integrates with gnome an?
* cbx33 hugs ogra and sbalneav 
<ogra> (i guess you get how thrilled i am ;) )
<rodarvus> do you have a timeframe for integrating it into our package?
<sbalneav> just sent you off a gnuified tarball ready for packaging.  As long as pittis happy with it, it's zehr gut.
<cbx33> you guys rock
<ogra> t operates on the lowest possible level, so its for example totally desktop independent
<highvoltage> wow
<sbalneav> Should work with either kde or gnome.
* highvoltage will rsync friday
<cbx33> indeed
<ogra> e.g. you can use it similary on XFCE, KDE and GNOME
<highvoltage> *grin*
<ogra> the respective device handling app of the desktop can pick it up
<ogra> ther is nothing to rsync yet, i'm waiting for pitti to approve the main inclusion of ltspfs/ltspfsd
<ogra> then i'll add the stuff to the packages
<ogra> and add it to the ltsp  dependencys, so it gets installed by default
<ogra> should happen during next week
<rodarvus> really good!
<rodarvus> ogra, sbalneav: congratulations :)
<cbx33> definitely
<ogra> cbx33 did some work on scp i havent looked at deeply yet ...
<ogra> but what he old me sounded very very promising ;)
<sbalneav> Just doin' my job, ma'am
<ogra> so scp is going forward as well 
<highvoltage> ok
<cbx33> ogra, need to have a chat to you about that at your easliest possible convenience
<ogra> mdz asked for a list of every dev for specs that might get dropped ...
<cbx33> I have time tomorrow morning on train
<LaserJock> ogra: like specs that aren't going to make it?
<ogra> and wrt to the schedule i think its realistic to say i wont be able to implement them all 
<ogra> yep
<rodarvus> LaserJock, yes. we need to make a decision next week, on which specs are going to be completed for edgy
<ogra> he wants a realistic overview 
<rodarvus> and which ones are going to be defered for edgy+1
<LaserJock> right
<ogra> right
<cbx33> ogra, with a little help scp will be done
<ogra> scp is easy (at least for me, but apparently also for you ;) )
<rodarvus> I don't have specs anymore (they're with ogra now), but expect to have some news during (or after) next week
<cbx33> well, I thought if I did all I could it would free your time up for important things
<cbx33> rodarvus, is this the big secret you couldn't tell us about two meetings ago?
<rodarvus> I'm not telling anything you about, yet :D
<rodarvus> but yes, this is it.
<ogra> what worries me is the swap server, we urgently need that 
<ogra> so i'll prioritize that one for the sprint
<ogra> as well as ldm login and session handling
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> ogra, is ther eanything I can do to help out there?
<ogra> the reason i bring it up in the meeting is that i want to hear from you guys if there is a spec you would consider urgent from a community POV
<ogra> https://launchpad.net/people/ogra/+specs
<ogra> hmm, is it me, or is LP slow
<cbx33> yeh a little
<highvoltage> geez, those two specs you just mentioned were two of my most important ones since the first edubuntu release
<LaserJock> seems ok to me
<cbx33> yeh
<LaserJock> ogra: do you think you will try to fix sabayon?
<cbx33> the ltsp manager would be great too
<rodarvus> ogra, do you want me to resume the swap server spec?
<cbx33> LaserJock, is this for you to do your spec
<rodarvus> I had started working on it already
<rodarvus> shouldn't take long for me to complete this one
<rodarvus> and you could focus on the others
<ogra> since we will start with autoconfigured dhcp this release (i.e. the user doesnt need to configure anything) what do you all think about shipping a predefined lts.conf ?
<cbx33> ogra, sounds like a plan
<LaserJock> cbx33: sorta, I do'nt think we can use sabayon for my spec so if ogra is too busy maybe that would be something to drop for now
<LaserJock> or maybe somebody else could fix sabayon
<ogra> rodarvus, which one  ?
<ogra> so what i'd like to do for edubuntu is have a lts.conf that switches on the following as defaults:
<cbx33> LaserJock, I would if I could
<highvoltage> ogra: i have always been a big proponent of including a default lts.conf, such as k12ltsp does
<cbx33> LaserJock, if I can help please let me know
<ogra>  * 16bit graphics (speeds up a lot and saves mem, while not breaking anything)
<highvoltage> ogra: users are confused when you tell them 'change/edit this in lts.conf', and then the file isn't there
<cbx33> highvoltage, totally
<cbx33> even I got confused at that first hurdle
<sbalneav> brb, workping
<cbx33> infact I remember we edited the install instructions on the wiki didn't we highvoltage ?
<highvoltage> yep
<cbx33> to tell them to create it
<rodarvus> ogra, this one -> https://blueprint.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/fully-automatic-swap-server
<sbalneav> back
<ogra>  * local devices (might be problematic with very low specced clients)
<ogra>  * swap server ... (which indeed needs the server installed by default as well i.e. one addition to the server seed)
<ogra>  * sound ... (it will fail silently if no sound HW is avaliable)
<ogra> thats it
<ogra> rodarvus, ah, thanks :)
<ogra> lets look over your stuff in wiesbaden, if you are busyi can surely pick up
<ogra> (i'm lagging a lot here, my network is like a swamp)
<cbx33> ogra, yeh
<cbx33> seems very delayed
* highvoltage too
<ogra> ok, so we'll ship a preconfigured ltsp this time, great :)
<LaserJock> ok, well I think we can ship a simple dynamic menu system with Edgy
<sbalneav> ogra: Where's the swap server at?  Can I give it any love?
<highvoltage> from a technical pov, this release of edubuntu sounds like it will be superior in every way to the other edu distros
<highvoltage> great work, ogra
<ogra> sbalneav, rodarvus has some changes to nbd-server afaik ... 
<cbx33> highvoltage, totally
<LaserJock> I've got my edgy box up and going and will be working on making .menu files and perhaps get started on a simple GUI
<sbalneav> rodarvus: anything I can help with, or have you got it in hand?
<ogra> sbalneav, i was planning to jump on it during the sprint next week ... together with the ldm enhancements
<rodarvus> sbalneav, its ok, thanks for the offer!
<sbalneav> k
<rodarvus> ogra, let me do this on the sprint, then
<ogra> so thats all from tech side for this week ... a working iso should be there on the weekend as i said ...
<rodarvus> (complete it, I mean)
<ogra> oh, and please everyone twst willow/willowng
<ogra> *test
<ogra> (i'll mail edubuntu-devel with a cal for testers tomorrow)
<ogra> that thing needs a lot testing 
<ogra> and we want to ship it as default :)
<ogra> i wonder how many users out there run edubuntu edgy ... :)
* LaserJock raises his hand as of today
<ogra> ok, lets move on 
<highvoltage> i don't think much yet :/
<ogra> documentation :
<ogra> anyone ? 
* ogra wonders what happened to HedgeMage
<ogra> she wasnt around much recently
<cbx33> she's not freenode staff anymore is she?
<LaserJock> I wonder if the Army got her?
<LaserJock> or something
<cbx33> or so I heard
<PWill> orga, i put edubuntu edgy on a desktop i had lying around
<ogra> she dropped that months ago
<sbalneav> I'd be happy to help document some of the localdevs stuff, and go over the ltsp documenation on the wiki
<ogra> PWill, nice !
<cbx33> and seeing as scp is going ahead, we'll need some scp docs, both in the Handbook and ingeneral?
<highvoltage> ogra: not strictly documentation, but can i jump in with webste stuff here too?
<cbx33> Are we going to have a preinstalled manual for Edubuntu?
<ogra> highvoltage, i thought you wanted to give that up :P 
<ogra> highvoltage, indeed :)
<highvoltage> ogra: yes, that's what i want to discuss
<highvoltage> i didn't initially want to give it up, but after elmo's mail i realised it's kind of inevitable
<ogra> cbx33, scp-> yep ... as well as willowng (even though there is not much to document)
<cbx33> highvoltage, what's the problem?
<cbx33> ogra, yeh
<highvoltage> it's not something i ever really had the time to maintain, just something i really wanted to
<ogra> yep 
<cbx33> ah I know the feeling
<highvoltage> and i'd like to shift to more 'fun' stuff anyway
<ogra> but for that we have a very good website ;)
<LaserJock> yes
<ogra> you did very well :)
<highvoltage> so we needsome volunteers who wouls assist with maintenance and expantion of the site
<cbx33> fantastic work highvoltage 
<highvoltage> thanks:)
<cbx33> I'd like to say I'll jump in seeing as I know drupal really really well now
<willvdl> highvoltage, what kind of maintenance and expansion?
<PWill> highvoltage: i do web design, i can help
<ogra> highvoltage, RichEd is advertising i the K12LTSP community ;)
<highvoltage> we can have another website meeting, where we can discuss what needs to be done on the site, and flesh out tasks and responsibilities
<cbx33> but I'm trying to get more into dev stuff
<highvoltage> ogra: heh
<ogra> it think most of it will be content management rather than webdesign
<cbx33> highvoltage, on the wiki?
<cbx33> ogra, yeh just drupal usage
<highvoltage> maintenance is basically upgrading drupal now and again, and keeping the new section updated
<highvoltage> i think the above is the main reason elmo freaked out
<cbx33> upgrading drupal can be scary :p
<RichEd> i'll give you guys more on web site & community later in my news
<ogra> highvoltage, i thought thats donr by matthew ?
<ogra> *done
<highvoltage> cbx33: i was actually more referring to the news :)
<cbx33> oh :p
<highvoltage> ogra: he can do that,yes
<highvoltage> for the content we'd have to rely on our community mostly, as far as i understand
<ogra> yep, that was the initial plan 
<ogra> but the community needs to grow ;)
<cbx33> we need a way to submit requests
<RichEd> ^^ as per my comment above we (Canonical) have a new dedicated community manager from Sept 4
<highvoltage> i want to get the wheel rolling on this, so is there any suggestions on a meeting time to discuss this?
<ogra> RichEd, and he will deal with teachers ?
<highvoltage> we would need about an hour or so
<RichEd> Jono Bacon .. well respected, good ideas.
<cbx33> yeh Jono is cool
<RichEd> He will work with me to build a Edubuntu community model within the greater Ubntu community
<ogra> but i suspect his focus will lie more in the ubuntu community
<ogra> ah, thats a nice plan :)
<RichEd> ogra: we are already chatting ... he is keen to work together
<ogra> yup ... 
* highvoltage will post about the website stuff to the list with a request for meeting dates, and suggest one if no one else does
<RichEd> he has an "education bent" .... i.e. a passion and his own theories
<cbx33> RichEd, good good
<ogra> ok, lets keep that for the commuity topic later ;)
<ogra> any other doc stuff ?
<ogra> doesnt seem like 
<cbx33> ogra, do meeting minutes
<cbx33> fall under documentation
<cbx33> ;)
<ogra> in a certain aount, yes :)
<ogra> *amount
<cbx33> I wanted to ask if anyone actually uses the minutes I produce
<willvdl> yip
<juliux> cbx33, yip
<willvdl> keeps me from asking inane redundant questions
<cbx33> ok, question answered
<rodarvus> cbx33, your meeting minutes are always important :)
<highvoltage> willvdl: really!? :p
<ogra> its easier to look through them than to search the raw logs :)
<cbx33> the EdubuntuMeetingNotesNew page ?
<cbx33> ok, 
<ogra> cbx33, but dont feel forced :)
<willvdl> highvoltage: I'm on medication
<cbx33> no no it's fine
<cbx33> they take a while to produce 
<cbx33> hence why I fall behind
<cbx33> once again sorry for that, just wanted to make sure my time was being well spent
<ogra> according to the reactions it is ;)
<ogra> ok, moving on ... 
<ogra> artwork:
<ogra> any news from your two girl artwork team ? 
<cbx33> oooh artwork
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuArtwork/Palette
<ogra> someone posted https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuSounds to edubuntu-users last week
<cbx33> we'll get to that
<ogra> heh
<cbx33> lisa has been working hard
<ogra> thats you in the first splash, right ? 
<cbx33> on creating some initial ideas for a palette
<cbx33> nope
<cbx33> ogra, you don;t even know how handsome I am :p
<rodarvus> cbx33, nice stuff
<cbx33> that's my brother in law
<ogra> ah
<ogra> yeah, very nice !
<rodarvus> jane is rather busy these days, her mother went under surgery last week
<cbx33> we liked the idea of a young person "working"
<cbx33> and "learning"
<cbx33> rodarvus, send her my regards
<ogra> note that ldm wont be able to show such nice fullscreen pics 
<rodarvus> (we go to hospital every night to see her)
<cbx33> I'll keep them in my thoughts
<rodarvus> cbx33, will do
<cbx33> ogra, sure
<cbx33> we can simplify
* LaserJock tries to get his eyes to work again
<ogra> yep
<ogra> LaserJock, dont like the colors ? 
<LaserJock> just bright
<cbx33> yeh
<LaserJock> maybe I've stared down too many lasers or something :-)
<willvdl> orange/yellow are colours of intelligence right?
<cbx33> as I said, this is a palette
<ogra> orange/yellow are great
<LaserJock> I like them, just a bit bright for me at the moment
<cbx33> LaserJock, turn down the contrast
<ogra> (says the man who pinted his office orange last week)
<ogra> *painted)
<LaserJock> yikes
<PWill> really?!
<willvdl> did it work?
<ogra> yep :)
<PWill> sweet
<ogra> it does, yes
<ogra> its a brownish orange 
<ogra> like working in a flowerpot ;)
<LaserJock> oh, well that's a bit better
<LaserJock> hehe
<ogra> i made the room match my edubuntu desktop ;)
<ogra> ogra, thats wonderful news for the artwork, ad i find it really slick ... :)
<cbx33> lisa has asked for a quick poll on everyones fav
<cbx33> 1,2,3 or 4
<ogra> splash 1
<ogra> gdm 4
<ogra> err
<ogra> splash 3
<ogra> sorry
<rodarvus> cbx33, is that you on the picture? :)
<ogra> heh
<PWill> i say splash 4
<cbx33> rodarvus, no, my brother in law
<ogra> i asked the same :)
<willvdl> splash 4   gmd 4
<PWill> willcdl knows what's up
<rodarvus> splash and gdm one are really nice (but not sure if they could be used as default)
<rodarvus> but very likely as alternative gdm theme
<willvdl> agree
<ogra> why not as default ?
<LaserJock> ah heck, I love them all :/
<ogra> rodarvus, willvdl ?
<LaserJock> I like the inquisative, students in action kinda thing
* RichEd has been chasing a mosquito around his office
<rodarvus> hmm, yeah, I changed my mind
<rodarvus> I think it could be the default one, indeed
<cbx33> :)
<ogra> heh
<cbx33> lisa just made a big sigh of relief
<PWill> LaserJock, i agree. we need more like that
<RichEd> I vote 3 ... looks like the desktop is on fire :)
<willvdl> ogra, the photographer isn't that relevant to me
<ogra> willvdl, well, in th econtext LaserJock just gave i think he is ...
<rodarvus> cbx33, you (lisa, or whoever took the picture) would need to formally agree on letting this picture be used, you know
<cbx33> lisa took it
<ogra> he's documenting/learning whatever ... its a educational gesture (in a very rough view)
<cbx33> and my brother in law has just been informed and said...COOL
<rodarvus> haha
<willvdl> ogra, true
<PWill> someone needs to get a picture of a playground with kids on it
<willvdl> without getting arrested
<ogra> willvdl, i agree that it porbably should be more intuitive :)
<RichEd> not to throw a spanner in, but from what janeW told me about previous decisions, when you use a singular person of a certain ethnicity, then there are sometimes "what about us" concerns
<LaserJock> PWill: might be tough :-)
<PWill> well, my mother is a teacher, maybe she could get her students to sign releases or something
<willvdl> RichEd: agree there too
<rodarvus> RichEd, right, this is important
<rodarvus> and lisa's brother seems to be blonde
<RichEd> or even from the politically correct side of the fence: what about them ?
<cbx33> RichEd, it's a little ambigous on a race/ethnicity issue
<ogra> RichEd, well, we survived that once, we'll do it again ;)
<LaserJock> RichEd: could we just vary it? or do we have to have "all in one"
<cbx33> but possibly not sex
<rodarvus> (blondes are really rare here, for example)
<cbx33> rodarvus, photoshop is a wonderful tool :p
<RichEd> fair & equal representation
<LaserJock> lol
<PWill> heh
<willvdl> rodarvus, and anywhere north of the limpopo river
<RichEd> i.e one pic with all peoples ...
<RichEd> or one pic per peoples
<ogra> RichEd, i have gotten mails where they called me racist back then because of it ... after the first shock you get used to just delete them ;)
<sbalneav> Well, gotta go pick up the kiddies
<willvdl> or remove the human element entirely?
<sbalneav> see you all later
<ogra> sbalneav, thanks for attending !
<ogra> gah !
<LaserJock> willvdl: but that's pretty bad too
<cbx33> yeh
<ogra> willvdl, thats a bad idea
<cbx33> the human element works
<PWill> right back..
<cbx33> really well
<rodarvus> we hava situation in Brazil that a blong kid is always considered rich, so, not really ideal for the official image
<ogra> if we take a decision we just have ot stad to it
<rodarvus> *have
<ogra> *stand
<cbx33> well the other alternative is to just have ambigouously coloured hands working on something
<rodarvus> s/blong/blonde/
<ogra> body parts are fine as well
<LaserJock> anyway, if we had lots of pictures to chose from we could try to pick one or many that work well
<cbx33> LaserJock, indeed
<RichEd> ogra: JaneW said that the community was fine with the CD cover and approval ... and then the mother grundies threw a wobbly
<willvdl> we can stand to it but can not always represent it
<ogra> but having human elements is essential imho 
<cbx33> as I said this is just a palette
<RichEd> and community was overridden
<ogra> RichEd, exactly
<cbx33> ogra, I totally agree
<ogra> RichEd, the human element is somewhat missing in the current artwork 
<cbx33> ogra, yes I feel that too
<LaserJock> aka, the chalkboard ;-)
<ogra> so it would be nice to get that back in
<RichEd> what about a selection of human options ... but a non-human as default ?
<LaserJock> might work
<ogra> only if we urgently need to
<PWill> back
<LaserJock> I think we should stick to the educational theme though
<ogra> i worked as graphics designer for some years ...
<cbx33> LaserJock, yes
<willvdl> or a styalised human
<cbx33> willvdl, getting to the manga we had before
<RichEd> or human reduced to a graphic or silhouette which is not-ethnic-discernable
<ogra> the first thing you learn in the advertisement business here is 
<ogra> have a human delivering your message
<cbx33> you can't please everybody
<ogra> one that people can identify with
<cbx33> there will ALWAYS be someone who is unhappy
<LaserJock> anway...
<PWill> lol
<willvdl> then we have to choose the largest target audience
<ogra> but gdm is a special thing ...
<ogra> gdm is the thing you will see in the photograps from classrooms  ...
<cbx33> ogra, yes
<ogra> its our face to the user
<ogra> more important than the CD cover or wallpaper
<RichEd> we could always go the southpark route and offend everybody equally ;)
<PWill> haha
<ogra> southpark ++ 
<cbx33> RichEd, heheh
<ogra> lets have kenny on gdm ;)
<PWill> RichEd, great! I lov lawsuits
<PWill> love*
<RichEd> all races all creeds ... step up for a sh!tt!n on
* RichEd stops with the silly stuff
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> well
<ogra> and we need to move on ...
<cbx33> here's the deal guys
<ogra> time gets short
<cbx33> just spoken with lisa
<cbx33> we can take some photos on sunday of some different ethnicities
<ogra> great 
<cbx33> there is quite a diverse range of people at my wifes church service
<PWill> how? just go up to people and ask if we can take thir picture?
<cbx33> lots of kids
<ogra> PWill, sure, why not
<willvdl> cbx33, can I send you some pics from transkei and madagascar
<RichEd> what about same basic pose of individuals of different ethnicities might work, each incorporated into the same background graphic ?
<ogra> tell them "your pic will be seen in 1000000 schools" :)
<cbx33> willvdl, if you have permission from the photographer and the people in it
<willvdl> they're my stock
<cbx33> ogra, that's a little optimistic
<ogra> cbx33, nope ...
<cbx33> willvdl, we would need a model release form from each person
<RichEd> so the appearance is the same in a selection of wallpapers, with different individuals ?
<ogra> cbx33, thats a matter of time ;)
<willvdl> depends on the country and location of shot
<cbx33> RichEd, how many wallpapers would we need :p
<ogra> RichEd, did JaneW show you the set of pics we had for ubuntu ?
<cbx33> willvdl, ok, but if we use someone, we need a model release form
<RichEd> say 5 ? most major groups ?
<ogra> err
<cbx33> too much I fell
<cbx33> feel
<ogra> thats not doable spacewise 
<cbx33> at this stage
<cbx33> ogra, ++
<ogra> max 3 wallpapers
<RichEd> note that sabdfl said he wil spring for DVD if we need to break the CD barrier
<ogra> RichEd, but our users wont
* RichEd was thinking about that ... old h/w
<ogra> RichEd, the bigger part of them even hardly has CD drives available
<cbx33> ogra, ++
<PWill> model release form: http://www.dpcorner.com/all_about/releases.shtml
<PWill> scroll down for the one for minors
<ogra> we discussed that quite often the last releases
<cbx33> thanks PWill 
<RichEd> maybe time is tight, but we could think next time about running a community competition ... submit your own photo and give up rights to us ?
<ogra> RichEd, there is no easy solution ... apart from starting to ship on more than one CD ...
<cbx33> and also https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuArtwork/Worksheet
<ogra> but that will mean we'd raise the costs
<cbx33> ogra, 1 cd is best I feel
<cbx33> for what it's worth
<cbx33> :p
<ogra> well, we're always short on space with one
<cbx33> ogra, we did talk about an Additional cd
<ogra> right ... for languages ...
<cbx33> but then RichEd even if we did have several wallpapers
<ogra> but we currently ship english only anyway
<cbx33> we couldn't have a default one
<willvdl> anyone know the relevant cost difference of 1 DVD vs 2 CDs?
<RichEd> what about a install CD and an add-on CD ... whwre install is all you really need and add-on is optional
<RichEd> *whwre
<cbx33> RichEd, it is an option
<PWill> CDs are the best option. we can't assume everyone has a DVD-ROM
<ogra> willvdl, 2 CDs will be significantly more expensive to ship
<ogra> i bet they are the same price for pressing 
<willvdl> true
<ogra> or at least a similar price
<RichEd> so shippit can go with 1 x Install CD, add-on is only by request, or as a optional download after install.
<cbx33> RichEd, but if it's a download
<willvdl> Just thinking of my target audience
<cbx33> just make them packages in universe
<RichEd> was about to say that :)
<ogra> would you want to have to download a full 600MB iso to get two language packs ? 
<cbx33> ogra, my point exactly
<ogra> yep
<cbx33> i still think 1 cd is best
<cbx33> our real goal is to get rid of kde
<ogra> my lag is making my discussion points a bit pointless :)
<cbx33> so we can have the extra 80-100Mb
<RichEd> a value-add package ... with pick & chose options for selective download ?
<LaserJock> time to move on?
<cbx33> yes
<ogra> yeah
<PWill> right back...
<cbx33> a quick on from me on Sounds
<ogra> shoot
<cbx33> sabdfl sent a great mail to the artwork mailing list
<ogra> yes, looks like you'll make the next generation of desktp sounds ;)
<cbx33> ogra, :D
<cbx33> bimberi sent me sound playground sounds
<cbx33> which I will add to make an edubuntu specific sound
<cbx33> the list has been narrowed down
<ogra> :))
<cbx33> anyone wanting more info ping me
<RichEd> ping
<cbx33> www.progbox.co.uk/finals
<willvdl> can't wait to hear them :)
<PWill> i don't so much like the playgriund sounds
<cbx33> tbh I havn't heard them
<ogra> PWill, they wont be standalone
<cbx33> but I'm sure they will be fine
<ogra> imagine them mixed with the sounds cbx33 made
<cbx33> RichEd, we're going to develop 6,7,8
<RichEd> okay
<PWill> i know, ogra. the just seem... i don't know
<ogra> just a bit background giggling of childs :)
<ogra> (the human factor ;) )
<PWill> meh. we'll see once they're mixed
<cbx33> any comments etc please please mail me
<cbx33> petesavage@ubuntu.com
<cbx33> i can keep track of things then
* RichEd hopes the child & playground sounds will not attract dirty old men with sweeties
<LaserJock> heh, I seriously doubt it
<ogra> RichEd, if we havent already we wont get them now ...
<willvdl> if they have mad ubuntu skills then let em
<RichEd> semi-serious comment ... JaneW gest some strange comments when she posts pics of our kids in the bath on her blog :(
<PWill> ew
<cbx33> RichEd, I was surprised she did that
<ogra> thats the world ... shit happens
* cbx33 washs ogra's mouth out with soap :p
<RichEd> cbx33: not without careful thinking now she doesn't
<willvdl> RichEd, comments from Seffers?
<RichEd> Seffers ?
<cbx33> are we done on artwork?
<willvdl> South Africans
<ogra> i think so
<RichEd> yep ... done ...
<ogra> community/management:
<cbx33> ogra, rodarvus, RichEd all send you all mail tomorrow
* ogra hands RichEd the mic
<cbx33> about our intentions for artwork photos
<cbx33> and you guys can add anything
<cbx33> or comment
<rodarvus> cbx33, I wonder if Lisa is shy - she never shows up on #edubuntu :)
<cbx33> rodarvus, she's just busy most of the time
<RichEd> okay ... community ----
<RichEd> http://www.jonobacon.org/ Jono Bacon = Canonical Community ferom 4 sept
<RichEd> You can have a read of this if you want to know what sort of a guy he is ...
<RichEd> Unwrapping Learning Potential With Open Source : http://www.jonobacon.org/?p=687
<Riddell> cbx33: ahem
<cbx33> Riddell, ?
<RichEd> Has some very good points ... and is a thinker ...
<LaserJock> uh oh
<RichEd> I have had a brief chat, and he is keen to collaborate ... needs to clear his plate from his old job first
<willvdl> RichEd: have you read the BECTA report on OSS?
<RichEd> nope willvdl : link ref ?
<cbx33> willvdl, BECTA, where are you based?
<willvdl> hard copy :(
<willvdl> RSA
<willvdl> but I read everything :)
<cbx33> ahhh
<RichEd> paste flood warning ... everybody stand back
* cbx33 is used to BECTA
<RichEd> As Ubuntu Community Manager, my energy will be focused in a number of different areas, each a foundation for a strong Ubuntu community. This includes:
<RichEd>     * Ensuring the wheels of the community are well oiled, and the different teams (Documentation, Art, LoCo, Marketing, Press, Accessibility etc.) can effectively work together, resolve conflict, source resources and more.
<RichEd>     * Refine and explore methods to make the Ubuntu community as approachable as possible. I want to ensure potential contributors can get started quickly and know when, where and how to get involved easily.
<RichEd>     * Develop processes and practises to ensure we get the most out of contributor time. Many contributors only have limited time they can dedicate to a project - we want to make sure they get the most out of that time and there are as few obstacles and red tape in the way. Happy contributors get things done and achieve doable goals - lets make this rock even more.
<RichEd>     * To foster innovation at every level. We have so much potential to think outside the box, develop better ways of working together and new ways of delivering in each of the different teams.
<cbx33> as I work in a UK school
<RichEd>     * Making the Ubuntu community as inclusive as possible. The ever-growing Ubuntu community spreads across many countries, cultures and communication mediums - lets make sure that we always retain community feel and spirit.
<RichEd>     * Measure and explore patterns in the community so we can understand it better and ensure all aspects of the community get the attention they need.
<willvdl> ow
* cbx33 just got knocked off his chair
<RichEd> So there is a good identified & calculated approach ...
<RichEd> That's from: Goodbye OpenAdvantage, hello Canonical August 8th, 2006
<RichEd> ... on his blog.
<willvdl> like the "inclusive" bit
<cbx33> yeh
<ogra> should also be on planet 
<RichEd> He is already quite active on #canonical. I'll drag him into one of our meetings when his feet touch grourd
<RichEd> ground
<RichEd> Based in Wolverhampton UK ...
* cbx33 had a chat with him the other day
<cbx33> great guy with some great visions
<RichEd> So cbx33 will buy him beers to make him help us
<ogra> he'S active in #ubuntu-devel since more than a year ... and wrote the "official" ubuntu book
<cbx33> all send your cheques now :p
<RichEd> Web ---------------------
* ogra lost his cheque book
<RichEd> Matt Nuzum = Canonical Webmaster
<willvdl> ogra, oooh. he writes well
<RichEd> I am brokering all the back-end management handover from Highvoltage to Matt
<RichEd> i.e. get Higvoltage off the nuts & bolts and up the value stack
<ogra> RichEd, as i understood it, hes do the tech part like drupal maintenance etc, but we keep the responsibility for content management ?
<RichEd> exactly ...
<cbx33> :)
<cbx33> great
<ogra> good :)
<RichEd> we do the content, he makes sure it is served
<cbx33> sounds like we're almost done
<ogra> we should focus on getting a content maintenance team going until release
<RichEd> or put another way  ... we know our audience ... he knows the machine
<cbx33> ogra, ++
<LaserJock> ogra: yep
<ogra> but w'll need more people
<RichEd> Now some business level stuff, to give you an idea of what's on the horizon
<ogra> vereybody in the community is currently having at least two duties ... i guess thats enough
<RichEd> (last topic before I am done)
<ogra> we need new flesh ! 
* RichEd thinks he hears a german cannibal
<ogra> haha
<LaserJock> hehe
<RichEd> Ubuntu is making some serious inroads ... and we are going to be pulled along in the slipstream. 
<ogra> as long as you dont think you hear an austrian dictator while i speak, all is fine :)
<cbx33> RichEd, ++
<cbx33> my brother in law just said... How can I help
<RichEd> Some cut & paste from a slarge enquiry from ex-USSR country:
<RichEd> *large
<RichEd> We are in the short list
<RichEd> > After 1 year testing of Fedora, decided recently to stick
<RichEd> > to one of commercial and well-known distributions:
<RichEd> > Suse, Mandriva and Ubuntu.
<RichEd> > The indicative number of machines distributed in 2,300
* willvdl stands back
<RichEd> > public schools and running on Linux by the end of 2008
<RichEd> > is 30,000.
<cbx33> nice
<RichEd> They want to open negotiations for:
<RichEd> > 3 year contract with attractive conditions for upgrade
<RichEd> > and technical support, that might include FLOSS center,
<RichEd> > mirror download sites.
<cbx33> right guys if we're nearing the end I'm gonna have to shut up shop, currently at the inlaws....need to get back and sleep....get my 5 hours in :p
<RichEd> this will need a gearing up by Canonical support ... as in the next one ...
* willvdl remebers getting tuXlab enquiry from Kazakstan
<RichEd> * Intel relationship getting more intimate
<RichEd> Canonical NDAs here so I can't give much specifics, but can say:
<cbx33> RichEd, remember my idea about live support :p
<RichEd> okay cbx33 ... in your email ?
<RichEd> 1. Intel education tools
<RichEd> - currently running on Red Hat and SUSE
<RichEd> - they are looking to get this running on Edubuntu
<RichEd> - will use their own developers
<RichEd> - may need direction from us at times
<cbx33> possibly
<ogra> intel -> *sigh*
<cbx33> but if not shout and I'll mail you again
<RichEd> why the sigh oliver ?
<cbx33> amd :D
<RichEd> cbx33: okay will check
<cbx33> right guys I'm sorry I'm really gonna have to go, unless there is anything else?
<ogra> RichEd, pairing up more with intel will drag me out of edubuntu stuff ... but thats not related to your post ... i thought it was about hardware stuff :)
<RichEd> nope you are released ...
<cbx33> nn guys
<willvdl> ciao
<ogra> they are eager to have hwdb integrated with their dazabase
<ogra> that will take a fair amount of my edgy+1 devtime i guess
<RichEd> ogra : for this they have their own crew ... they think they can manage without us,
<ogra> RichEd, they cant do the ubuntu side 
<ogra> and i wrote that ...
<willvdl> hmmm, Intel Tech to the Future is *everywhere
<willvdl> Teach rather
<ogra> but getting edu tools from them is a great thing indeed :)
<RichEd> nope, but they will do their side ... and the relationship is such that they may provide people if they need to dip in into our side
<RichEd> ogra: NDA covers Canonical employees ... will forward you a mail
<ogra> RichEd, right ... but i will still be needed ... we met up in paris and spoke about it 
<ogra> thanks 
<RichEd> Intel have a vested interest in helping Ubuntu get onto OEM vs Microsoft ... around margins on chips
<RichEd> (shhhhh ... wink)
<ogra> yep
<ogra> maxalt said that very public in his talk in paris ;)
<ogra> no "shhh" needed ;)
<ogra> (maxalt is intel engineer)
<RichEd> So they are not helping us out of social godness, but out of margin concerns ... and this fits with their target growth areas for OEM shops 
<RichEd> Aisia, LAMs, Vietnam, Indid etc.
<RichEd> so next paste:
<RichEd> 2. Intel has introduced us to their Premier Partner in Vietnam
<RichEd> - want to formalise an Ubuntu OEM offering & Edubuntu for Education
<RichEd> > this company has 100 in-house developers writing software
<RichEd> > applications on OSS to sell in bundle with the PCs and
<RichEd> > with corporate services
<ogra> nice !
<RichEd> ^^^ Indiz = India
<willvdl> huuuge
<RichEd> But we need then to help Canonical develope & add new services
<ogra> yep, ubuntu has 18 fulltime developers
<RichEd> To wrap the deal, we need to provide:
<RichEd> Intel Training  - level 1
<RichEd> VAR Training    - level 1
<RichEd> BackEnd Support - level 2
<RichEd> Some of this exists at Canonical Paid Support in Montreal e.g. Ubuntu server support
<RichEd> We'll need to help them add Edubuntu to this, LTSP server & desktop support &* training
<ogra> yup
<RichEd> So willvdl & I will meet with Hilton & Jonathan for informal discussions next week ...
<RichEd> See what we can do with the tuxLabs support model & staff ...
<willvdl> Inkululeku(o)
<RichEd> Very much an idea in theory, but that looks like our easiest route forwards
<RichEd> Unless someone else can point me to a base of Edubuntu support with in the clasroom experince ?
<RichEd> Ideas welcome.
<willvdl> I think their next update will be full Edgy
<ogra> willvdl, you mean tuxlabs ? 
<willvdl> There are a few RichEd. Not many as large as tuxlabs but they are there
<willvdl> ogra, yip
<RichEd> --- so that is all from me for now --- apart from 1 directive from my meeting with Mark:
<ogra> well, they will wait for localdev support .. that was the reason they didnt switch earlier i was told
<RichEd> Mark: I expect you to make Edubuntu the dominant education Linux within 12 months.
<ogra> we *are* the dominant edu distor 
<ogra> *distro
<RichEd> RichEd: and I expect all of you here to help me.
<ogra> he doest get that :)
<rodarvus> :)
<willvdl> the burninastro
<rodarvus> RichEd, was that a recursive question? :)
<ogra> show me *one* other edu distro in the http://distrowatch.com/ top 100
<RichEd> I don't think he is satisfied with 60:30:15:5
<ogra> we're on place 60
<RichEd> I think he wants 90:6:3:2
<ogra> either debian-edu, nor skole or K12 are even listed
<PWill> go to go, guys
<PWill> adios
<willvdl> ciao
<ogra> *neither
<RichEd> cheers ... PWill 
<willvdl> folks, the true mark of success is case studies
<willvdl> working implimentations with solid outcomes
<RichEd> willvdl: agreed ...
<RichEd> he wants usage majority, not ratings
<ogra> i know that distrowatch is nonsense, but its a rough indicator for being known 
<rodarvus> some linux distributions on distrowatch are quite directed to a small audience, but nonetheless, have many usrs
<rodarvus> users
<RichEd> Mark is also looking at list traffic volume
<ogra> right, thats poor on the edubuntu lists
<RichEd> LIST - k12osn : 30-50 mails a day
<rodarvus> take 'kurumin' for example. is a brazilian spin-off of Knoppix, with added hardware support for most common brazilian machines + non-free stuff.
<rodarvus> its *crap*, but due to the nature of its software, its the most used linux distribution on the government
<RichEd> LIST - ubuntu-dev : 30-50 mails a month
<willvdl> rodarvus, interesting
<ogra> edgy will change a lot here 
<willvdl> end-to-end solution type thing?
<rodarvus> and I doubt any of you ever heard about kurumin :
<rodarvus> :)
<ogra> its the first release from which *i* say it can face k12
<rodarvus> willvdl, yes, basically this
<willvdl> We have Novell doing the same thing here with Suse
<RichEd> rodarvus: ^recursive question^ god hels those who help themslves :)
<RichEd> *helps
<willvdl> RichEd: does he help you to spell?
<RichEd> no ... i'm on my own for that
<willvdl> :P
<ogra> we're at more than 90 mins now ...
<willvdl> okie, almost pumpkin time
<ogra> wha about wrapping up ?
<RichEd> final word : to tie it all together guys ...
<RichEd> if we get the big partner deals like the ones above, where we are preloaded, or selected for a country wide deployment
<RichEd> we'll make the news and the numbers
<RichEd> and ubuntu is getting the respect and the foot in the door
<RichEd> we just need to deliver our specialised product
<RichEd> or shoudl i say carry on delivering
<ogra> right :)
<willvdl> :)
<RichEd> I am very exicited ... more so every week
<RichEd> The future is bright and the future in Ubuntu
<ogra> :)
* rodarvus cheers
<RichEd> and today is now done for me ... thanks to all
<ogra> thanks 
<rodarvus> thanks
<ogra> meeting ends here -------------------------------------------------------
<willvdl> ciao 
<ogra> ciao
* ogra wonders off
<willvdl> bon nuit
<RichEd> i'll send intel mail to the canonical core ... read, but don't respond unless therough me :) pliss
<RichEd> <- back to edubuntu
<ogra> heh, sure :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-08-17
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 17 Aug 23:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 22 Aug 16:00 UTC: Community Council | 23 Aug 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 24 Aug 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Aug 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 30 Aug 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 17 Aug 23:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 22 Aug 16:00 UTC: Community Council | 23 Aug 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 29 Aug 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 30 Aug 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 31 Aug 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<Hobbsee> @schedule sydney
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 18 Aug 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 23 Aug 02:00: Community Council | 23 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu | 30 Aug 06:00: Technical Board | 31 Aug 06:00: Edubuntu | 01 Sep 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<GNAM> @schedule rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 18 Aug 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 22 Aug 18:00: Community Council | 23 Aug 14:00: Edubuntu | 29 Aug 22:00: Technical Board | 30 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu | 31 Aug 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<zul> @schedule montreal
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 17 Aug 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 22 Aug 12:00: Community Council | 23 Aug 08:00: Edubuntu | 29 Aug 16:00: Technical Board | 30 Aug 16:00: Edubuntu | 31 Aug 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<sfllaw> @schedule Montreal
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 17 Aug 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 22 Aug 12:00: Community Council | 23 Aug 08:00: Edubuntu | 29 Aug 16:00: Technical Board | 30 Aug 16:00: Edubuntu | 31 Aug 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<Lure> @schedule Ljubljana
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Ljubljana: 18 Aug 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 22 Aug 18:00: Community Council | 23 Aug 14:00: Edubuntu | 29 Aug 22:00: Technical Board | 30 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu | 31 Aug 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<bmon> @now
<Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: August 17 2006, 21:43:35 - Next meeting: Ubuntu Development Team in 1 hour 16 minutes
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-08-18
<pitti> hi
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Ubuntu Development Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 Aug 16:00 UTC: Community Council | 23 Aug 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 29 Aug 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 30 Aug 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 31 Aug 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<rodarvus> hi there
<zul> hey pitti
<zul> and rodarvus 
<rodarvus> hey pitti, zul
* rodarvus updates https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelTeamMeeting20060817
<doko> hi
<zyga> hi :)
<Riddell> evening all
<fschoep> Hello everyone.
<sfllaw> Hello all!
<iwj> Hello.
<zul> hi
<sfllaw> mdz asked me to moderate this meeting, because he's in an aeroport right now.
<pitti> hey Simon
<ogra> excuses !
<Keybuk> that's hardly a "creative" excuse
<sfllaw> I know.
<ogra> theer are surely hotspots :)
<sfllaw> Anyway, it feeds my lust for power.
<sfllaw> So who am I to argue?
<ogra> hehe
<Keybuk> he wouldn't let us get away with that one
<Keybuk> it'd be "well, dial in on your mobile then"
<sfllaw> Has anyone seen heno?
<ogra> hehe, yeah
<Keybuk> did he even send in a report?!
<sfllaw> BenC, Kamion, fschoep, Riddell, pitti, mvo, seb128: Ping!
<seb128> sfllaw: pong
<BenC> sfflaw: pong
<mvo> hello
<fschoep> sfllaw: pong
* pitti waves to sfllaw again, this time really hectically
<Riddell> I've ponged
<Riddell> Kamion will be holidaying
<Keybuk> sfllaw: Kamion is still on Holiday
<sfllaw> Oh.
<pitti> sfllaw: Kamion is still on holiday
<pitti> Keybuk: /me takes a penalty card for being snapped
<sfllaw> :)
<Riddell> fschoep ponged too
<BenC> sfllaw: Not sure if anyone told you, but Kamion is on holiday :)
<sfllaw> doko: Ping.
<sfllaw> BenC: StaffCalendar is not very reliable these days.
<pitti> sfllaw: it's not supposed to be any more
<pitti> sfllaw: canonicaladmin.com :)
<Keybuk> sfllaw: are you using the canonicaladmin.com one
<BenC> we have the mondo admin app now
* Keybuk takes a penalty card also
<pitti> Keybuk: snap!
<doko> sfllaw: here from the beginning
<iwj> So ... shall we go ?
<sfllaw> Yup.
<sfllaw> infinity?
<infinity> sfllaw: I need about 5 mins.  Just woke up.  Sorry.
<sfllaw> It's cool.
<sfllaw> BenC?
<BenC> * Implemented remainder of kernel side for apport.
<BenC> * Implemented auto-module loading for speakup synth modules.
<BenC> * Burned through a lot of kernel bugs.
<BenC> * Benchmarked i386 and amd64 kernels. Result, kernels will be reduced to one generic of each of i386 and amd64, SMP enabled. Server kernels haven't changed. A -386 kernel will be retained as an alternate target for systems that need non-SMP capable (legacy) drivers.
<BenC> * ia64 and hppa32 have been reduced to two SMP enabled kernels. The UP versions were removed.
<BenC> * Lots of other trivial and not so trivial kernel stuff.
<BenC> * Started implementing changes for Intel platforms: drm, e1000, scheduler fixups, iommu changes for IOAT.
<BenC> * libata-for-all-disks: Pretty much stalled because of me. I think someone proposed some time for this at the distro-sprint, and it needs it. It's not hard, just needs some eyes and hands to get it done.
<Keybuk> I did indeed propse time
<Keybuk> randomly, I notice my ATA driver is still not in the list
<Keybuk> (ALi -- FTB or some other reason?)
<BenC> not all of them were turned on
<BenC> some were "done, but never tested"
<BenC> I honestly think that for edgy, we may not enable these drivers by default
<BenC> but doing so in edgy+1 will be a lot easier
<BenC> we should at least finish the UUID conversion regardless of the date of libata-for-all-disks
<BenC> s/date/fate/
<Keybuk> yeah; I'm inclined towards "edgy+1 when it's in mainline anyway" but have everything in place so that there's a switch in edgy they could throw if they wanted
<BenC> right, I feel much better about that scenario too
<Keybuk> ok, I'm done :p
<sfllaw> Anyone else?
<rodarvus> yes
<rodarvus> BenC, the drm stuff you mention is the agpgart driver, right?
<rodarvus> (the updates to it on intelinuxgraphics.org, I mean)
<BenC> agp and drm
<BenC> right
<rodarvus> *nods*, thanks
<doko> BenC: do you care about the misdn user tools, or should that somebody else?
<BenC> are you doing the xorg side?
<rodarvus> . o O ( we seriously need a machine with a i965g board )
<rodarvus> BenC, its done, already
<BenC> doko: Considering I don't have isdn, I would prefer someone else do it :)
<BenC> rodarvus: excellent
<rodarvus> I'll upload a new mesa later today, but it only has a minor fix
<BenC> we have one such machine
<BenC> it's in Montreal
<BenC> we should bug jbailey about it
<infinity> sfllaw: Kay, I guess I'm readyish now.
<sfllaw> rodarvus: Or cr3.
<rodarvus> cr3 said he didn't have one on his hands (but I might have read what he said incorrectly)
* BenC is taking too much time...let's move on :)
<sfllaw> Perfect.  infinity?
<infinity> Done:
<infinity>  * build-failure-process: After many talks with cprov and some tests, this is rolled out in production, but not turned on, awaiting one final fix, which should be done today.
<infinity>  * Spent lots of time this week with Team Soyuz, discussing their specs, discussing new and shiny bugs, and generally giving them gentle shoves in the directions we need.
<infinity>  * General archive maintenance, NEW processing, etc.
<infinity>  * Re-rolled, tested, published, and re-released the 6.06.1 Ubuntu Server CD for sparc.
<infinity>  * General buildd maintenance, as usual.
<infinity>  * Some random bugfixing, bootstrapping, and other faff not worth expanding.
<infinity> To do:
<infinity>  * While everyone is off sprinting, I intend to finish up what's left of larger-livefs, live-cd-stacked-filesystems, livefs-build-speedups, and debian-maintainer-field.  None have a great deal of work left, but all have some odd requirements here and there.
<infinity>  * Need to put the pieces together with pitti to get ddebs off the buildds and onto rookery.
<infinity>  * Need to do a couple dozen uploads for FTBFS issues to get edgy's out-of-date count back down to zero.
<Keybuk> I got to 'p' in the NBS before I got bored
<infinity> Awesome, thanks.
<Riddell> NBS?
<infinity> Not Built from Source.
<infinity> ie: Removing old cruft.
<Riddell> right
<Riddell> infinity: are you coming to Wiesbeiden?
<pitti> Riddell: Wiesbaden :)
<Riddell> no, presume not from your update
<Riddell> pitti: thingy
<infinity> Nope.
<Keybuk> UDMTW
<pitti> Keybuk: Ubuntu Distro Meeting Thingy Wiesbaden?
<Keybuk> that would work too
<sfllaw> I just got a bug with an apport crash report.  It's sexy.
<pitti> sfllaw: :)
<Keybuk> I was just thinking of a Fawlty Towers scene
<ogra> ugh
<ogra> why did i read airport there ?
* doko sees Riddell lost in Germany ...
* mvo is pretty sure there is no iron brew (or whatever it is spelled) in germany too
<Keybuk> Irn Bru
* mvo makes a note "Irn Bru"
<Keybuk> of which, the only good thing that can be said is that it washes away the taste of the haggis
<mvo> LOL
<sfllaw> Any more questions for infinity?
<ogra> hahaha
<Keybuk> (actually, I rather like haggis, but anyway)
<iwj> I think not judging by the conversation ...
<pitti> infinity: happy to IRC meet with you next week for the ddeb stuff
<pitti> infinity: (to do the rookery side)
<infinity> pitti: Yeahp, will do.
<Riddell> sfllaw: poke, do the clerking thing
<pitti> Riddell: just go next :)
<iwj> Yep, Riddell, go next.
<Riddell> done:
<Riddell>     kubuntu-hwdb: implemented
<Riddell>     kubuntu-accessibility: implemented, just waiting on casper and gfxboot support from kamion/mithrandir
<Riddell> todo:
<Riddell>     kubuntu-edgy-package-manager: have a go at implementing commercial repository support in adept-installer
<sfllaw_> Woah, sorry about that.
<pitti> wb sfllaw_ 
<Riddell> sfllaw: we're going without you
<Keybuk> iwj: next :p
<iwj> sfflaw_: Hello.  We decided to have Riddell next because he put his hand up.
<sfllaw_> Nice.
<pitti> Riddell: did you see any problems with langpacks-desktopfiles-kde?
<mvo> Riddell: let me know if  I can do something for you there (commercial support)
<iwj> Keybuk: I'll wait for us to finish with Riddell :-).
<Riddell> pitti: seems to be working, although most of KDE needs recompiled to add it
<pitti> cool
<Riddell> mvo: we might also look at a kubuntu dist-upgrader at the sprint
<mvo> Riddell: ok
<mvo> Riddell: lets see how far we get with the support from python-konsole :)
<Riddell> yep
<Riddell> no kwwii this week, in the US
<Riddell> I make it iwj next
<iwj> firefox 2.0 beta merge: Finished.  Sorry for the mess last week.
<iwj> LP `1.0' UI: Got involved in some discussions.  Not sure how fruitful it was.
<iwj> automated-testing-deployment: No change since last week.
<iwj> suggest-packages-for-filetypes: Not started.  I hope to discuss this briefly with mvo at the Sprint and implement it shortly after that; it doesn't look hard.
<iwj> package-dependency-field-breaks: Following feedback after a deployment in firefox, it now seems that the changes to apt are an essential part of this.  I've started to understand the code for this.  If a ff theme package isn't available by late Friday I'll upload a firefox without Breaks to make the dependency problems go away, so that the theme ends up installed but silently broken.
<doko> iwj: dselect aborts
<iwj> doko: Coo.
<iwj> Bug# ?
<mvo> iwj: I would be interessted if you could let me know about the implementation plan in apt
<fschoep> iwj: Are you waiting for me to do the FF2 theme (by tomorrow)?
<iwj> mvo: I'll keep you posted.  I'm still reading code atm.
<mvo> iwj: thanks
<iwj> fschoep: I'm not really waiting on you, in that you're not blocking me.
<doko> iwj: bug 56761
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 56761 in dpkg "dselect aborts on select" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/56761
<fschoep> iwj: OK, that's fair - but it's kind of high prio, then?
<iwj> fschoep: But the current situation wrt the Breaks in firefox is suboptimal and it needs to be made to go away either by having fixed themes or by changing firefox.
<iwj> fschoep: So I agreed with mdz that if the theme wasn't ready by tomorrow I'd upload a new ff without Breaks.
<iwj> fschoep: That has nearly no effect on you I think.
<iwj> doko: Thanks.
<fschoep> iwj: OK, when I finish the theme, it won't give you headaches if it's after tomorrow?
<iwj> fschoep: No.
<fschoep> iwj: OK, good to know.
<iwj> But I think it would be good to have it sooner so we can test it, play with it, people can complain about things they don't like, etc.
<iwj> doko: Ooo.  Thanks.  Will fix tomorrow.
<fschoep> That's true, holds up for everything I think.
<sfllaw> Any more quetsions for iwj?
<iwj> doko: I know why that's happening and I should have thought of it ...
<sfllaw> Right.  fschoep?
<iwj> fschoep: Is it probably going to be after tomorrow ?  If so I can do the ff thing more or less straight away (after sleeping).
<fschoep> Done:
<fschoep>  * ubuntu-art-complete-highcontrast-icons, : find and document icons which need work
<fschoep>  * starting up / assisting sound engineering, filtering proposals
<fschoep>  * ubuntu-art-cd-dvd-artwork: communication with Jane / Kenneth on improving media package artwork
<fschoep>  * attract some new active members to the artwork team
<fschoep> Ongoing:
<fschoep>  * art-polish-human-gtk-theme: summarize improvements, implement
<fschoep> To-do:
<fschoep>  * approve artwork production directions, then kick off production phase for community artwork
<fschoep>  * update the Human icon priority list with the contents of the PDF to-do list
<fschoep> iwj: yes, sorry to disappoint you.
<iwj> fschoep: No problem; that doesn't cause me trouble.  It's good to know.  Thanks.
<fschoep> Well... Anyone?
<sfllaw> I suppose you were very clear!  :)
<sfllaw> pitti?
<pitti> Done:
<pitti>  * automated-problem-reports:
<pitti>   - some tweaks and bug fixes, added to ubuntu-desktop, announced to u-d-a
<pitti>   - wrote tool for regenerating apport report backtraces with symbols
<pitti>   - some thoughts how to improve the kernel<->apport protocol, to be discussed again at the sprint with BenC, seb128, and anyone else interested (registered slot on wiki page)
<pitti>  * mentored Kees Cook for security updates
<pitti>  * many pkg-create-dbgsym fixes
<pitti>  * security updates: krb5, gnupg2, heartbeat, binutils, imagemagick
<pitti>  * some general bug fixing
<pitti>  * SoC project (apt-offline): horrible state, no way to get this ready by Monday; I deem the bounty failed, but maybe he'll continue working on it after Soc
<pitti> To Do:
<pitti>  * apt-get-debug-symbols: implement rookery side of ddeb cowboying once infinity finished the buildd side
<pitti>  * have fun on distro sprint
<pitti>  * vacation week!!!
<Riddell> you're on holiday during distro sprint?
<seb128> pitti: you are on VAC during the sprint? ;)
<pitti> the week after
<seb128> ah, ok ;)
<sfllaw> The apport stuff looks very good.
<iwj> I'm on holiday that week too.
<pitti> seb128: of course not, we need to drink champagner together
<sfllaw> It will make triaging a lot faster.
<sfllaw> So thanks.
<pitti> you're welcome :)
<seb128> pitti: and schnaps too :p
<infinity> pitti: Your update failed to mention if she said "yes".
<pitti> let's hope that it'll get even better during the spring
<pitti> s/g$/t/
<pitti> infinity: she did!
<sfllaw> pitti: Congrats!
<pitti> http://www.piware.de/verlobung.jpg
<mvo> CONGRATS pitti
<infinity> pitti: See, that's the only news worth reporting. :)
<pitti> thanks
<zul> congrats
* pitti hugs everyone
<iwj> pitti: Excellent :-).
<seb128> pitti: Congrats ;)
<ajmitch> congrats pitti :)
* seb128 hugs pitti
* pitti beams
* Keybuk hugs and congrats pitti
* mvo hugs pitti
* sfllaw hugs pitti.
<sfllaw> doko?
<pitti> so, as I threatened, prepare for champagner next week
* ogra hugs pitti 
<doko> I was waiting for the champagne ...
<doko> - this week
<doko>   - edgy-toolchain: look at and finally find the cause for the gcc build
<doko>     failures on powerpc, took too long.
<doko>     state of edgy-toolchain: mostly implemented. remaining bugs/bits should
<doko>     be addressed next week (libstdc++ link errors).
<doko>   - some more tests with -mtune=generic, enabled now on i386 and amd64 in
<doko>     gcc-4.1 and gcj-4.1.
<doko>   - edgy+1-toolchain: look at the sparc biarch build failures in gcc-4.2
<doko>     / gcc-snapshot; found it. the sparc developer machine is SLOW! where are
<doko>     the niagaras?!
<doko>   - java-roadmap: updated gcj-4.1, packaged gcj-4.2 with the new libgcj-bc;
<doko>     rebuilt and updated required packages, updated java-gcj-compat,
<doko>     updated and rebuilt the gnome java bindings (jni libraries), eclipse update
<doko>     will need some UVF exceptions for java libraries.
<doko>     some phone calls for packaging coordination.
<doko>   - openoffice.org: OOo 2.0.4~m1 test build; would like to upload the 2.0.4rc1
<doko>     to edgy (mdz?). glad to read the job offer for an OOo maintainer :)
<doko>   - other: sun-java5 update; considering upload to dapper-updates after some
<doko>     days.
<doko>   - python-roadmap: no news
<doko>   - python2.5: updated to python2.5~rc1, upload tomorrow
<doko>   - other specs: no progress
<doko> - next week
<doko>   - stop uploading toolchain packages, the buildd's will need the time for OOo ;-)
<doko>   - sprint: focus on toolchain bugs, java-roadmap, python2.5, ongoing OOo work.
<pitti> wow, doko was really busy
<infinity> Or just likes to type. :)
<iwj> Oh, I'd just like to say:
<sfllaw> doko: You'll have to talk to mdz when he gets back online.
<iwj> ~++
<pitti> well, -changes was full of dokoisms, too :)
* doko slaps infinity ...
<sfllaw> Hey, hey!
<sfllaw> Keep it down, boys.
<doko> pitti: missed your fastjar updates ...
<pitti> doko: no biggie, they are still on my list, too
<doko> sfllaw: yes, maybe needs to wait until Monday
<rodarvus> doko, regarding the OOo maintainer - have you talked with Pavel Janik? he is (or was) he biggest community contributer, back in my OOo time. Also he did some work for Novell, but it looks like he doesn't works there anymore (but I might be wrong)
<rodarvus> I haven't talked with him, but I think he could be a great maintainer of OOo
<Keybuk> what will doko do if he doesn't maintain OOo
<doko> rodarvus: he's working on his own, and AFAIK all job offers are for full timers; I'be at OOoCon in September; hope to meet some people there
<rodarvus> *nods*
<doko> Keybuk: I'll find another office package ;)
<mvo> doko: write one!
<pitti> doko: you enjoy pain, don't you? :-P
<sfllaw> Any other questions?
<doko> pitti: yes, I love ssp ;-P
<zul> i thought i was the one who enjoyed pain
<pitti> zul: it's not limited to just one person, don't worry :)
<sfllaw> mvo?
<zul> pitti: oh ok...thank god
<mvo> Did:
<mvo> - apt:
<mvo>   * merged ddtp support into apt, python-apt, synaptic, libapt-front, adept (rebuild aptitude too)
<mvo>   * uploaded first ddtp tarball to the archive, a lp problem prevents full usage currently
<mvo>   * added "--fix-policy" switch to apt (works like fix- borken and looks for not-satisfied recommends)
<mvo>   * announced the --install-recommends support in apt
<mvo> - gnome-app-install:
<mvo>   * added better integration of the popcon data in gnome-app-install (sortable popularity column)
<mvo>   * fix in the icon extraction code
<mvo>   (should we enable it by default with next upload?)
<mvo>   * work on the g-a-i cache (cPickle) branch (40% startup time reduction)
<mvo> - gnome-system-tools/system-tools-backends work
<mvo> - bug triage
<mvo> - misc (update-manager, update-notifier, dist-upgrader, new realplayer dapper-commerical,apt)
<mvo> Blocked:
<mvo> * review of the "AlwaysEnableUniverseMultiverse" spec
<mvo> Will do:
<mvo> - devel meeting in wiesbaden
<iwj> mvo: Thanks for that --auto-deconfigure change in apt, btw.
<mvo> cheers
<Riddell> mvo: anything I should look at with respect to AlwaysEnableUniverseMultiverse and adept?
<mvo> Riddell: it is not accepted yet, I guess we can talk about it in wiesbaden
<mvo> Riddell: there is a "plan b" in the spec :)
<Riddell> ok
<sfllaw> Questions?
<iwj> mvo:
<iwj> You have a bit of time at the sprint to talk about the suggest-packages-for-filetypes ?
<iwj> You can tell me what you've done and I'll pick it up.
<iwj> Shouldn't take too long.
<mvo> iwj: I except so, yes. the gnome-app-install bits should be more or less done (modulo further startup optimizations)
<iwj> Right.
<sfllaw> ogra?
<ogra> * this-week:
<ogra>  - thinclient-local-devices many good changes in the implementation, nearly done, waiting for ltspfs/d MiR and promotion to main, floppy handling missing yet
<ogra>  - student-control-panel-completion parts of the dbus interface implemented
<ogra>  - gnome-screensaver update and bugfix
<ogra> * next-week:
<ogra>  - finish thinclient-local-devices
<ogra>  - finish student-control-panel-completion
<ogra>  - implement ltsp-dhcpd-autogeneration
<ogra>  - start on fully-automatic-swap-server with rodarvus
<ogra> * specs: 
<ogra>  - ltsp-dhcpd-autogeneration (started/suspended, resume planned before knot-2 to have it in there for testing)
<ogra>  - student-control-panel-completion: (waiting for approval, slow progress)
<ogra>  - ltsp-daily-image-tarballs: (in progress, scripts and tarballs available at http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/ltsp-tarballs/)
<ogra>  - ltsp-convergence: (no progress, multi distro meeting sept. 14th-19th)
<ogra>  - ltsp-netboot-enhancement: (no progress debian patches applied locally)
<ogra>  - thinclient-local-devices (good progress)
<ogra>  - fully-automatic-swap-server (no progress)
<ogra>  - ltsp-login-and-session-handling (no progress yet)
<ogra>  - edubuntu-xfce-desktop (no progress yet)
<sfllaw> Questions?
<pitti> ogra: let's sit together and finish the ltsp mount stuff
<pitti> ogra: i. e. the suid mount wrapper and the gnome-vfs bug fix you wanted me to do
<pitti> ogra: (next week)
<ogra> pitti, sbalneav shuld have done the last bits ... i think he sent you the last changes
<pitti> he did, will audit it tomorrow
<ogra> yep
<ogra> i thin its nearly done ...
<ogra> *think
<ogra> but lets sit down for the gnome-vfs stuff (also the cd thing is bothering me)
<ogra> i'll bring my thin client and a bunch of local devcies ...
<sbalneav> ogra: should we file a bug about g-v-m adding stuff in /tmp?
<ogra> sbalneav, not if i'm working face to face with pitti on it anyway ;)
<sbalneav> ah, ok :)
<iwj> suid mount wrapper> Time for me to plug userv again ? :-)
<ogra> btw, for anyone who didnt know it, that localdevice implementation is the sexiest ever !
<ogra> thanks to sbalneav !
* rodarvus cheers
* sfllaw hugs sbalneav.
* sbalneav hugs back
<ogra> its completely desktop independent and i didnt need to make seb128 unhappy with ugly nautilus scripthacking ;)
<seb128> cool :)
<ogra> yep, we mount in /media now ... nautilus just picks it up :)
* mvo cheers to ogra and sbalneav
<seb128> nice
<seb128> sfllaw_: only 5 min before timeout for the meeting, can we move on?
<sfllaw> rodarvus
<rodarvus> Done:
<rodarvus>  * Much Edubuntu administrativia
<rodarvus>  * Planning OLPC Edubuntu Effort
<rodarvus>  * X.Org bugfixing
<rodarvus>  * Preparing for Wiesbaden Developers Sprint
<rodarvus> Todo:
<rodarvus>  * Wiesbaden Developers Sprint
<rodarvus>    - X.Org bugfixing
<rodarvus>    - Discuss OLPC effort with (at least) mdz and ubuntu-archive team, others welcome too :)
<rodarvus>    - Work on fully-automatic-swap-server (pair programming with ogra)
<sfllaw> Questions?
<sfllaw> Keybuk?
<seb128> 3min :p
<rodarvus> >:-)
<sfllaw> seb128: We started 5 minutes late as people were still showing up.
<sfllaw> We've got 8.
* pitti looks forward to Keybuk demoing upstart next week
<seb128> sfllaw: we always do but we are on time usually ;)
<sfllaw> That would be cool.
<sfllaw> Well, Keybuk doesn't seem to be present...
<sfllaw> seb128?
<seb128> This week:
<seb128> - caught up with most of my mails and SoC lag
<seb128> - bug triage, bug triage, bug triage: a good number of bugs triaged or fixed but almost as many new ones coming
<seb128> - worked on evolution, evolution-data-server, evolution-exchange news versions from GNOME 2.14.3 for dapper-proposed
<seb128> - backport some desktop fixes to dapper-updates
<seb128> - some GNOME updates to edgy
<seb128> . 
<seb128> Next week:
<seb128> - distro sprint to Wiesbaden
<seb128> sfllaw: BTW thank you for the 4 bug changes you did on desktop bugs during the week :p
* pitti hugs Seb"bug terminator"astien
<sfllaw> seb128: Was that sarcasm I detect?
<sfllaw> Questions?
<seb128> sfllaw: maybe ;)
<sfllaw> Done
<sfllaw>  * UbuntuBugDay
<sfllaw>  * Bug triaging
<sfllaw> To do
<sfllaw>  * Prepare for UbuntuBugDay at the summit
<sfllaw>  * Bug triaging
<sfllaw>  * E-mailing CEGEPs about interns
<seb128> sfllaw: an hand on desktop bugs would still be appreciated :)
<sfllaw> seb128: I've been triaging across the board, as the number still keep climbing.
<sfllaw> seb128: We have done bug days for desktop bugs, though.
<seb128> right
<Keybuk> sfllaw: sorry, got caught by a typing break there
<sfllaw> Keybuk: I know the feeling.
<sfllaw> You're up.
<Keybuk> Done:
<Keybuk>  * ReplacementInit: now only a few final bits to tidy up, notably initial console settings.
<Keybuk>  * BootMessageLogging: implemented as part of upstart
<Keybuk> To do:
<Keybuk>  * Package upstart and get it into the archive (pre-Wiesbaden)
<Keybuk>  * Wiesbaden: have everyone test while there, and with high bandwidth to me if things go wrong
<Keybuk>  * Wiesbaden: UUID migration needs help from other people (LVM, MD, RAID, devmapper, sparc, ia64, hppa, PowerPC, etc.)
<seb128> sfllaw: we have some people working on them which is nice, but having an hand from the QA master would be appreciated too ;)
<sfllaw> Questions?
<pitti> Keybuk: does it work? :)
* rodarvus desperately needs help with X.Org bugs too
<sfllaw> rodarvus: I went an rejected some today.
<rodarvus> (bug triaging X.Org bugs, I mean)
<Keybuk> pitti: yeah, very well
<rodarvus> sfllaw, thanks
<pitti> Keybuk: \o/
<sfllaw> Thanks everyone!  Please update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelTeamMeeting20060817.
<rodarvus> I was unable to read my "bugs" mailbox today :/
<iwj> I just wanted to say quickly that if I don't forget I'll have two UK->Euro adapters with me and only need one.  So if you're one short do ask me.  (I was going to post this to distro-team but it's not working for me atm.)
<ogra> pitti, btw, getting the MiR approved for ltspfs/d would speed me up a bit ;)
<pitti> ah, yeah, MIR is haunting me again
<ogra> iwj, i'll bring a collection of powerstrips with me ... so we can multiply the adapters
<sfllaw> I need to find North American power strips that won't short at 240V.
<ogra> aww, indeed that doesnt wotk in that direction ... ignore me :)
<iwj> I don't think I have a spare 4-way, unfortunately.
<iwj> sfllaw: Ug.
<infinity> sfllaw: Just get European plugs for all your auto-switching gear.  It's what I do.
<infinity> sfllaw: Much less hassle.
<iwj> sfllaw: You could buy a lead for your laptop with a sensible plug.
<iwj> Now we'll be in the middle of a town I can buy a euro lead for my laptop.
<infinity> sfllaw: I have a US, AU, EU, and UK plug for my laptop, just pack what I feel is appropriate.
<Keybuk> I can't seem to find my EU one ;'(
<Keybuk> I usually bring them all, as there's always *some* kind of power strip nearby, and not always the one you'd expect
<iwj> Bed for me now though.
<doko> good night
<iwj> ttfn all
<pitti> thanks to all, and good night!
<Keybuk> night all
* mvo goes to bed as well
<fschoep> Thanks everyone and good night. See you next week.
<seb128> 'night
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 Aug 16:00 UTC: Community Council | 23 Aug 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 29 Aug 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 30 Aug 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 31 Aug 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<shawarma> @schedule copenhagen
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Copenhagen: 22 Aug 18:00: Community Council | 23 Aug 14:00: Edubuntu | 29 Aug 22:00: Technical Board | 30 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu | 31 Aug 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-08-19
<R00VZL4> hi
<R00VZL4> ^^
<R00VZL4> :) hi people
<Arbiter> @schedule Rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 22 Aug 18:00: Community Council | 23 Aug 14:00: Edubuntu | 29 Aug 22:00: Technical Board | 30 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu | 31 Aug 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-08-20
* PWill is away: sleeping
* PWill|Away is back (gone 00:17:40)
<Seveas> PWill, please don't display public away messages in here
<CyberKing> !ping me
<panickedthumb> ok
<jenda> @schedule New York
<jenda> @schedule New York City
<jenda> @schedule WDC
<panickedthumb> @schedule EST
<Ubugtu> Schedule for EST: 22 Aug 11:00: Community Council | 23 Aug 07:00: Edubuntu | 29 Aug 15:00: Technical Board | 30 Aug 15:00: Edubuntu | 31 Aug 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<jenda> Thank you ;)
<panickedthumb> there we go :)
<jenda> @now EST
<Ubugtu> Current time in EST: August 20 2006, 09:50:42 - Next meeting: Community Council in 2 days
<zenwhen> Perhaps I will be able to pop in on the meeting during lunch.
<panickedthumb> wait, it's 10:50 not 9:50
<panickedthumb> @now EDT
<zenwhen> I generally take my lunch break @ 11am.
<Seveas> don't use EST when you can use real timezone names
<jenda> which would be, in this case?
<Seveas> jenda, someting like new_york
<Seveas> complete list is on bots.ubuntulinux.nl/timezones.html
<lguerra> Hola, de pronto alguno de los que entraron han tratado el tema de control de ancho de banda?
<lguerra> Sorry, wrong room
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-08-13
<kraut> moin
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-meeting.log
<mr_pouit> @schedule Paris
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Paris: 14 Aug 17:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 14 Aug 21:00: Technical Board | 15 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu | 16 Aug 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Aug 00:00: Forum Council meeting | 21 Aug 17:00: Kernel Team
* tck pokes highvoltage 
<highvoltage> ouch!
<tck> gobuntu
<greg-g> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: August 13 2007, 19:08:35 - Next meeting: Ubuntu Server Team meeting in 19 hours 51 minutes
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-08-14
<kraut> moin
<zul> @schedule montreal
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 14 Aug 11:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 14 Aug 15:00: Technical Board | 15 Aug 16:00: Edubuntu | 16 Aug 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 20 Aug 18:00: Forum Council meeting | 21 Aug 11:00: Kernel Team
<christian> join linux
<dendrobates> @schedule New York
<ubotu> Schedule for America/New_York: 14 Aug 11:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 14 Aug 15:00: Technical Board | 15 Aug 16:00: Edubuntu | 16 Aug 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 20 Aug 18:00: Forum Council meeting | 21 Aug 11:00: Kernel Team
<stgraber> @schedule Zurich
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Zurich: 14 Aug 17:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 14 Aug 21:00: Technical Board | 15 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu | 16 Aug 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Aug 00:00: Forum Council meeting | 21 Aug 17:00: Kernel Team
<malleze> ?
<kraut> @schedule berlin
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 14 Aug 17:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 14 Aug 21:00: Technical Board | 15 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu | 16 Aug 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Aug 00:00: Forum Council meeting | 21 Aug 17:00: Kernel Team
<kraut> are there any predefinied topics about the server-meeting?
<kraut> any agenda?
<kraut> ah, found it
<nealmcb> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<nealmcb> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Roadmap
<Nafallo> nealmcb: thanks
<Nafallo> nice! my suggestion is already on there :-)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 14 Aug 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 15 Aug 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 16 Aug 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 20 Aug 22:00 UTC: Forum Council meeting | 21 Aug 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team
<dendrobates> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 14:51. The chair is dendrobates.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC] , [IDEA] , [ACTION] , [AGREED] , [LINK] , [VOTE] 
<dendrobates> Just making sure mootbot is working.
<keescook> MootBot's clock is off...
<jono> yo
<jono> where is the agenda?
<mathiaz> jono: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<dendrobates> and away we go.
<nealmcb> current time is 15:00:39
<nealmcb> UTC
<jono> ok I would like to add an item to discuss the community team
<dendrobates> jono would you like to start, so we make sure we fit ouy in?
<jono> dendrobates: happy to if no one minds
<dendrobates> jono: the floor is yours
<jono> great stuff
<jono> I just really wanted to get an update on how the community building is going and discuss the next steps
<jono> from what I can tell, things are going great
<jono> what is the progress with the team so far?
<dendrobates> We are pretty happy, with the response.
<jono> excellent
<jono> and these meetings are regular?
<dendrobates> We need to work on ways to give community members very concrete tasks to workon.
<jono> right
<jono> can I also suggest to have a docs day?
<tarvid> good point, i made two promises and only partially kept one
<dendrobates> sometimes it is just as easy to do something yourself as to define it well enough for someone else to work on it,
<jono> the aim of the docs day is to fill out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase with details of how to get involved in the team
<jono> I would sugges that some focus goes into filling out the knowledge base - this will help drive in new contributors
<tarvid> er make that 3
<mathiaz> another thing that may be interesting is a mentoring program
<nealmcb> [LINK]   https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase
<MootBot> LINK received:   https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase
<mathiaz> I've seen that on the ubuntu-doc mailing list.
<jono> I would recommend that before you do the mentoring, get the docs in place
<mathiaz> they've sent an anoucement about docuMentors
<mathiaz> and people are signing up.
<jono> think of the knowledge base as the content that new contributors will use to get up to speed - if they have no content to help them, they will get bored or lost and move on
<jono> so I would recommend the team invests in creating this documentation first before mentoring and further outreach happens
<dendrobates> [ACTION]   Fill out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase with details of how to get involved in the team
<MootBot> ACTION received:   Fill out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase with details of how to get involved in the team
<jono> :)
<jono> I recommend you folks pick a day for your docs day and really spend much of that day doing docs
<jono> and encourage the wider community to write docs on that day
<jono> you will want to make a big deal of the docs day to encourage everyone to get involved and write docs
<mathiaz> what about every other wednesday ?
<nealmcb> (see more about mootbot commands you can use to structure the meeting minutes at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScribesTeam/MootBot)
<mathiaz> alternating with the ubuntu-server meeting ?
<jono> mathiaz: regular docs days tend to die a death - I would recommend you do just one for now
<mathiaz> ok. next friday ?
<jono> really focus this day on getting the docs sorted
<jono> a week on friday?
<mathiaz> so that we can announce it on the mailing list ?
<dendrobates> I think the sever community is unique in that many members have Jobs at large corps, that limit the days/hours they can contribute.  I think we might need to stagger the times of things like doc days and meetings to get the most involvement.
<jono> fri 24th?
<jono> dendrobates: agreed
<nealmcb> works for me - sounds fun
<jono> and much of the docs day work might happen in the evening
<jono> fri 24th sounds great
<jono> but you want to make everyone in the ubuntu community know about the docs day - get it on the fridge, everyone blog it, do a few podcast interviews, shout out the window - whatever :)
<dendrobates> [ACTION]  Organize Doc Day for July 24th.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Organize Doc Day for July 24th.
<dendrobates> oops.
<nealmcb> :-)
<mathiaz> dendrobates: hummm.. that's a bit far awya
<jono> MootBot is way cool :)
<dendrobates> [ACTION]  Organize Doc Day for Aug 24th.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Organize Doc Day for Aug 24th.
<dendrobates> I have no idea how to remove an action.
<sommer> just so I'm clear this is doc day for creating docs on getting involved in the server team?  Not server howto type docs?
<jono> sommer: yep, its all about how to contribute to the team
<sommer> cool
<jono> sommer: the plan is to make it as easy as possible for a new contributor to get involved
<mathiaz> yes. It's about updating the knwoledge base.
<jono> stuff like:
<jono>  * how to join the team
<jono>  * where resources
<jono> are
<jono>  * technical processes
<keescook> not that we should discourage people from writing howto docs, though!
<jono> etc
<penguim> hi all
<jono> keescook: :)
<jono> hey penguim
<jono> ok, lets talk about the TODO
<jono> is there a TODO that indicates what needs to be done?
<mathiaz> yes. The Roadmap: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Roadmap
<jono> cool stuff
<mathiaz> should we go through the roadmap ?
<dendrobates> not yet.
<mathiaz> dendrobates: or you wanna discuss the other item first ?
<dendrobates> [TOPIC]   Review ACTION points from previous meeting.
<MootBot> New Topic:   Review ACTION points from previous meeting.
<tarvid> i have a short howto on getting the drupal5 package to work, where should I put it
<dendrobates> Lets go through this quickly.
<jono> right I am gonna look away and do other stuff, ping me if I am needed :)
<dendrobates> thanks jono.
<jono> np :)
<nealmcb> see also https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Drupal
<mathiaz> previous meeting log: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20070731
<dendrobates> I know we are all busy getting ready for FF.  So has anyone completed any action items?
<mathiaz> I haven't sent the annoucement for UWN.
<dendrobates> DONE. dendrobates and jdstrand should discuss auth-client-config packaging issues.
<mathiaz> I still need to contact tarvid for AppArmor testing.
<mathiaz> tarvid: can you still provide some help for that ?
<dendrobates> That was about python-central, and jstrand fixed it.
<tarvid> i will be at it shortly, just put up the sandbox at home
<tarvid> did the drupal5 package first
<dendrobates> [TOPIC]   Discuss example PHP home page for LAMP install.
<MootBot> New Topic:   Discuss example PHP home page for LAMP install.
<mathiaz> ok. That's all for me for my last actions.
<jdstrand> dendrobates: have you thought more about our discussion regarding your packages and 'purge'?
<tarvid> i am especially interested in seeing if AppArmor can be used to make shell commands safe on a shared server
<dendrobates> jdstrand: I have not had time.
<sommer>  mathiaz: I'm also interested in helping test AppArmor.
<jdstrand> dendrobates: ok-- we can talk more on #ubuntu-server later
<mathiaz> sommer: cool. I'll get in touch with you also.
<sommer> mathiaz: thanks
<dendrobates> It has been stated as a goal that we need a php page example for the lamp install.
<mathiaz> The idea about the php install page is to have the equivalent of the 'It works' page
<tarvid> I always wind up adding a phpinfo.php page
<mathiaz> we also want to make sure that the mysql database is running correctly.
<keescook> how about a displayed checklist of "OK" items?
<keescook> query the DB, "db OK", etc
<keescook> (the PHP test page can use the "test" db)
<sommer> can't you install PHP without MySQL though.
<mathiaz> yes you can.
<nealmcb> and many want to use postgresql
<mathiaz> but we'd like to test the LAMP install.
<sommer> ah...makes sense.
<mathiaz> people can install a LAMP stack, and we'd like to have something to show that things are working correctly.
<tarvid> phpinfo has been my best guide
<jdstrand> I like keescook idea-- shows the different components of LAMP are working
<mathiaz> Should we test that select is working from the database ?
<mathiaz> tarvid: well... It doesn't test if the mysql database is working
<tarvid> that is correct but at least it shows you which versions are installed
<jdstrand> tarvid: not to mention, if the user doesn't update it, it gives out a *ton* of info
<keescook> checking for postgresql ... skipped        checking for mysql ... OK     database found!   etc
<mathiaz> so we could have test page that shows that apache is running..
<mathiaz> mysql is running
<mathiaz> may be postgresql
<dendrobates> network glitch.  Sorry.
<mathiaz> and which version of php is running.
<mathiaz> whith a list of php modules loaded ?
<tarvid> for example, a drupal install installs apache2-mpm-itk
<nealmcb> Do we really want a test page that knows a db password?
<tarvid> and postfix
<sommer> Is there a "test" db setup with the install?
<tarvid> on a shared server, mysql passwords can be read
<jdstrand> mathiaz: personally, I am with you all the way to the modules.  I just keep thinking of people not updating index.php (or whatever) for a while, and there being to omuch info given
<tarvid> from configuration files
<mathiaz> mysql_install_db installs some tests database.
<sommer> I'd think that'd work then, the username/password is for test and you could include docs on how to remove after install.
<nealmcb> but having a remotly-accessible way to log in to even a test database seems a bit risky
<tarvid> we are headed towards regression testing and that is not a bad idea
<dendrobates> it should not be remotely accessable.
* nealmcb nods
<dendrobates> you can grant local rights only.
<dantalizing> what will you do if someone installs wordpress....lamp is a dependency, and wp tries to install a index.php too?
<mathiaz> we'll probably face the same problem as the default apache website.
<dendrobates> this would only be for the tasksel lamp task.
<dendrobates> it should clobber nothing.
<mathiaz> so what is needed is to write a simple php web page
<mathiaz> that prints some information.
<dantalizing> but wouldnt wp fail with "trying to overwrite file...in package lamp"?
<dendrobates> It would have to be clobberable as well, just like ant index.html that ships.
<tarvid> i think we should distinguish between a class of users who wants to get "something" running and a more experienced class that knows what they want
<mathiaz> and then we need to add it to the tasksel task.
<dendrobates> yes.
<mathiaz> advanced users would reconfigure apache anyway
<mathiaz> and remove the default web host.
<mathiaz> defautl website.
<dendrobates> are there any php programmers out there who would like to give it a try?
<jdstrand> I can do it
<dendrobates> [ACTION]  jdstrand will take a first stab at an example php page for the LAMP tasksel.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  jdstrand will take a first stab at an example php page for the LAMP tasksel.
<dendrobates> [TOPIC]   Brainstorm new server-related  ubotu factoids, e.g. webmin, mail, mua, mta, pop, imap, nic, openssl, inetd.
<MootBot> New Topic:   Brainstorm new server-related  ubotu factoids, e.g. webmin, mail, mua, mta, pop, imap, nic, openssl, inetd.
<nealmcb> [IDEA]  people on #ubuntu-server should watch for FAQs, see if ubotu has related factoids and if not, propose new factoid text.
<MootBot> IDEA received:  people on #ubuntu-server should watch for FAQs, see if ubotu has related factoids and if not, propose new factoid text.
<nealmcb> the ones I listed in the agenda don't exist for the most part
<mathiaz> the first item that we should add is about webmin.
* nealmcb nods
<mathiaz> it's been asked a couple of times on the irc channel.
<dantalizing> has anyone used ebox? i thought it was being added and is supposedly easier??
<nealmcb> who knows the history, and can provide examples of config file mutilation?
<dantalizing> i'll shut up now
<infinity> soren's been working on cleaning up eBox, hasn't he?
<tarvid> tasksel is in perl
<dendrobates> I know nothing about ubotu factioids.  Care to give a quick primer?
<nealmcb> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBots
<nealmcb> I
<mathiaz> infinity: why webmin was dropped from the archive ?
<dendrobates> OK so what actions do we have out of this topic?
<nealmcb> That describes ways to add new factoids, but I think only certain folks like seveas can do so now
<infinity> mathiaz: Because it doesn't play nicely with dpkg in any way, shape, or form.  It takes over your config files, mangles them, and leaves the packaging system confused and upset.
<infinity> mathiaz: And webmin users become completely unsupportable by us.
<Mithrandir> mathiaz: "RoM; outdated; unmaintained"
<nealmcb> infinity: can you put some text together and maybe give an example, contrast with ebox et al?
<dendrobates> Before we move on do we have any action items for this topic?
<mathiaz> I'll write some text on webmin
<nealmcb> thanks!
<mathiaz> send it to the ubuntu-server mailing list
<mathiaz> and figure out how to update the bot.
<dendrobates> [ACTION]  mathiaz will write a factiod about webmin.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz will write a factiod about webmin.
<dendrobates> [TOPIC]   Update server related pages on help.ubuntu.com - Documentors section.
<MootBot> New Topic:   Update server related pages on help.ubuntu.com - Documentors section.
<nealmcb> s/iod/oid/
<infinity> Uhm, okay, I just read the channel log.
<infinity> What package are you proposing ships this "PHP Test Page"?
<infinity> And, dear god, why?
<dendrobates> This is a server team task from mdz.
<mathiaz> There has been some request on the irc channel about help pages.
<infinity> Seriously?
<dendrobates> the php test page I mean.
<mdz> infinity: as an example, to show that it works
<mathiaz> and people were complaining about the lack of accuracy about the wiki pages
<mathiaz> on help.ubuntu.com
<infinity> Well, I could write it in about 5 minutes.
<mathiaz> so what would be a list of pages on help.ubuntu.com that we should try to update ?
<mdz> infinity: currently, you install the LAMP task, and the system should be able to run PHP pages, but there aren't any on the system to try.  I'm suggesting we put one there.
<dendrobates> There was nothing in the task that stated it had to be the default webpage, though.
<mdz> infinity: make sense?
<infinity> mdz: Yeah, makes a modicum of sense, just not entirely sure where to put it, so it's both visible, but not in the way.
<mdz> infinity: same place as the default HTML one, I'd think
<infinity> (And how to ship it... A .deb in the LAMP task to ship one file seems excessive)
<mdz> infinity: or do you mean package-wise?
<infinity> mdz: /var/www/lamp-test/index.php would seem an alright place to shove it, or something similar, but yeah, which package to shove it in is a fun one.  PHP might make the most sense.
<mdz> (I'm on a conference call, but hopefully I've clarified what I was looking for)
<infinity> mdz: I could whip up a generic test page that shows if MySQL or PostsreSQL is up and running on localhost, status of some other random stuff, whatever.
<jdstrand> infinity, mdz: there was discussion that this should test for mysql too
<mathiaz> infinity: if we want to test for mysql, it may not be the best palce.
<tarvid> we are talking about the webmin deb and not the raw package aren;t we?
<infinity> mathiaz: Nothing wrong with it testing for a database and not finding one.
<jdstrand> infinity: I had said that I would do it, but you are welcome to if you want it
<dendrobates> ok lets get back on topic.   Update server related pages on help.ubuntu.com - Documentors section.
<mathiaz> I think we should list the wiki pages that are problematic according to the complains in the IRC channel.
<mathiaz> and then we can point people wanting to work on server related documentation to it.
<dendrobates> OK, is there someone who would like to do this?
<sommer> I can help...not sure which ones are being complained about though.
<dendrobates> mathiaz: have you heard specific complaints?
<mathiaz> hum... dovecot+postfix
<mathiaz> yesterday I think.
<ScottK> Yes, yesterday
<tarvid> i have a brief drupal5 article for the wiki, i would like to get it into the proper format and then find out what people think
<mathiaz> tarvid: did you check out https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Drupal ?
<tarvid> i also have an esmtp howto
<dendrobates> So this would be an ongoing task, but should not be too much work.
<mathiaz> dendrobates: correct.
<tarvid> interesting, i search for drupal and this page was not returned
<dendrobates> sommer: are you willing to do this on an ongoing basis?
<sommer> dendrobates: sure.
<nealmcb> tarvid: did you search via google? via the wiki?
<sommer> I'm currently working on migrating from sendmail+dovecot to postfix so very topical for me.
<tarvid> via the wiki
<mathiaz> tarvid: wiki.ubuntu.con or help.ubuntu.com ?
<tarvid> i found it this time, must have been a typo
<tarvid> probably help.ubuntu.com
<tarvid> i can work on an update
<dendrobates> so is this the correct action:  sommer will listen for documentation complaints on #ubuntu-server and update update them
<mathiaz> tarvid: that would be excellent.
<dendrobates> -1 update
<sommer> I can also work on the dovecot+postfix doc.
<mathiaz> sommer: is there a document on help.ubuntu.com ?
<mathiaz> there are a couple of Mail related ressource on help.ubuntu.com
<dendrobates> mathiaz: do you want him to update the server page so documentors can fix, or do you want him to fix the documentation?
<dendrobates> I'm thinking the former.
<mathiaz> dendrobates, sommer: update the server page.
<nealmcb> which server page?
<mathiaz> dendrobates, sommer: not fixing them. So that we have a list of things to work on.
<mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Roadmap
<mathiaz> in the documentor section.
<nealmcb> ahh - thanks
<dendrobates> [ACTION]  sommer will listen for documentation complaints on #ubuntu-server and update the documentor section of  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Roadmap.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  sommer will listen for documentation complaints on #ubuntu-server and update the documentor section of  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Roadmap.
<mathiaz> I'll add a task to the Roadmap so that sommer can list them there.
<sommer> mathiaz: so I should submit drafts linked to that section?
<dendrobates> We are running out of time.  Do we need to schedule these more often?
<mathiaz> hum.. we're almost done.
<sommer> My thought is it may not be a bad idea.
<sommer> at least until the Server Team contributing docs are ironed out.
<dendrobates> [TOPIC]   Discuss new tasksel for openssh server
<MootBot> New Topic:   Discuss new tasksel for openssh server
<dendrobates> What does everyone think of adding a tasksel for openssh-server?
<tarvid> openssh-client is installed by default, it would be better to install openssh-server and not install client
<lamont> server by default wouldn't be allowed to listen  on other than loopback, except for LAMP....
<lamont> it's that pesky security policy...
<tarvid> client encourages users to work on the server without the benefit of cut and paste
<dendrobates> If a user chooses a tasksel task it is not by default.
<lamont> dendrobates: right
<mathiaz> LAMP has an exception for the security policy - so why not openssh-server ?
<nealmcb> the proposal is to have an option, "off" by default, during install to install openssh-server
<lamont> in LAMP, it makes perfect sense to install openssh-server
<mathiaz> I guess it would make sense to install it with every tasksel.
<dendrobates> But it is certainly a commonly installed package, and we have been asked to look for new possible tasksel tasks.  This seems like it would be a simple choice.
<nealmcb> does someone have a link to the policy and this lamp exception?
<tarvid> tasksel could use a mail section
<tarvid> mail coices should include esmtp
<mathiaz> so what about adding openssh-server to the LAMP tasksel ?
<mathiaz> and also to the bind9 task ?
<tarvid> bind9 has rndc
<mathiaz> but not to the default server install
<infinity> There is no "LAMP exception", when you install LAMP, you're specifically requesting a server with open ports.
<dendrobates> I'm not sure we should do that, why not just have it as a separate task?
<jdstrand> that is my feeling with openssh-server task
<infinity> It's not the default choice, after all.
<nealmcb> infinity: that is what I thought
<jdstrand> right, create a separate openssh-server task, it is not default.  It is a checkbox to install.
<jdstrand> non-default, so ports are open
<jdstrand> in the furture there will be a lot of tasks that are added that would benefit from openssh-server, having it separate makes sense to me.
* nealmcb nods
<dendrobates> I like it as a separate task, then the users knows they are opening the port
<tarvid> you will far fewer broken server installs if users get off the server as soon as possible
<dendrobates> anyone have any experience with tasksel?
<jdstrand> tarvid: they need to check the lamp box anyway, they can check the ssh server box just as easily-- or am I missing something?
<infinity> jdstrand: LAMP is selected from the boot screen, usually.
<tarvid> nowhere do we encourage users to get off the server
<infinity> jdstrand: We special-case it, as the "star task".
<tarvid> users benefit from documentation and a lot of mine ask for a desktop on the server
<infinity> tarvid: While I agree, in theory, the user can use whatever console they want, it's hardly my concern.  And if they're going to install a local X and other things, they're just as likely to try remote X, or try to break their box remotely. :)
<nealmcb> tarvid: by "get off the server" you mean stop using the local display, and that it is good to make it easy to ssh in?
<tarvid> yes
<jdstrand> infinity: ok-- so are you suggesting a separate task, that LAMP should pull in as well?
<jdstrand> infinity: perhaps with a note stating it happened
<tarvid> mandrake had a package called msec which is not a bad concept
<infinity> jdstrand: No, I'm pretty much with anyone who thinks openssh-server should be part of the LAMP task.
<infinity> jdstrand: If we also want it in its own task, that's fine.
<tarvid> might put netstat into the test php page so users know which ports are open
<tarvid> why would a new user think to try tasksel in the first place, it is far from obvious
<infinity> tarvid: The test page will be available on a public interface, having it expose too much info about the machine isn't bright.
<nealmcb> I like the idea of a separate task for openssh.  adding it to lamp would be confusing
<infinity> tarvid: The installer runs tasksel.
<dantalizing> i dont get it...so a developer who wants lamp gets openssh-server too?
<tarvid> ah security by obscurity
<jdstrand> infinity: while I can't really think offhand why you would want LAMP without ssh, I think the extra port open needs to be documented somewhere.  Least surprise and all
<dendrobates> I think it should be available as a task to users who don't select LAMP.  Perhaps the installer could automatically check the box when you select LAMP.
<infinity> tarvid: "Don't show everyone your netstat output" isn't "security by obscurity".
<Seveas> jdstrand, for servers that have an ILO card or are xen instances, an SSH server may be unneccessary
<infinity> tarvid: It's privacy.
<tarvid> it is to any hacker who has an nmap or equivalent
<Seveas> (jdstrand: and I administer several of those ;))
<jdstrand> Seveas: good point
<dantalizing> if i'm a web developer of any kind, i want lamp and not necessarily ssh-server
<jdstrand> (Seveas: I don't ;)
<infinity> tarvid: netstat shows things nmap can't.
* sommer agrees with dendrobates about auto checking a seperate box for openssh-server.
<infinity> tarvid: Namely, who's connecting to you, and other fun stuff.
<dendrobates> Ok so a separate openssh-server task seems to be the consensus.
<jdstrand> why not have LAMP and LAMP+SSH?
<Mithrandir> a task for a single package?
<Mithrandir> sounds overkill to me..
<tarvid> i wasn't suggest a raw dump of netstat simply a list of open ports
<nealmcb> Seveas: good point about xen
<infinity> A task for a single package does strike me as a bit silly.
<tarvid> we are missing the objective to help new users get something running, hopefully what they want
<dendrobates> it is a little, but I think some users would appreciate the ability to select sshd at startup.
<tarvid> and some would prefer postgresql and some would prefer exim ...
<tarvid> or postfix+courier
<nealmcb> but this single package is pretty much the only non-default package you need to be able to admin a server remotely, so I vote for a visible task  for it
<dendrobates> does anyone want to work on this?
<dantalizing> this is only in reference to an ubuntu-server install, correct? not ubuntu?
<dendrobates> dantalizing: yes.
<nealmcb> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Tasksel
<tarvid> some day we are going to have to address maintaining numerous workstations
<nealmcb> dantalizing: I would want to see it as an option for non-server installs also
<sommer> tarvid: there was a good presentation on clonezilla at Ubuntu Live.
<infinity> Tasks are at the archive level, if it exists for one flavour, it exists for all of them.
<tarvid> i will take a look at that
<ScottK> Well courier is in Universe and the package for it isn't in great shape.  I've given merging courier to prospective MOTUs as an "are you really ready to be a MOTU" exercise.
<dendrobates> yes, but we are talking about installer integration.
<dendrobates> we need to close the meeting.  I suggest we continue on #ubuntu-server.
<jdstrand> I am not sure a decision can be made of whether we should enable ssh by default with LAMP unless we know how many users want it and don't want it.  The only other option is to offer choices.
<jdstrand> By installing it by default, we will make another set of users say 'I need to uninstall this'
<nealmcb> next meeting time?
<nealmcb> do we want one next week?
<mathiaz> next week is the kernel team meeting at this time.
<dendrobates> mathiaz and I will look into another meeting, but at this time it is in two weeks.
<mathiaz> so we'd have to move the meeting.
<dendrobates> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 16:16.
<nealmcb> thanks, all!
<tarvid> can some of this be moved to the mailing list so we canb proceed asynchronously
<mathiaz> I'll write up some notes.
<dendrobates> mathiaz: lets see what mootbot does for us.
<mathiaz> dendrobates: yeah. I think it will generate some preview things. But it may be much easier to edit it.
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 14 Aug 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 15 Aug 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 16 Aug 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 20 Aug 22:00 UTC: Forum Council meeting | 21 Aug 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 22 Aug 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<zul> @schedule montreal
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 14 Aug 15:00: Technical Board | 15 Aug 16:00: Edubuntu | 16 Aug 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 20 Aug 18:00: Forum Council meeting | 21 Aug 11:00: Kernel Team | 22 Aug 08:00: Edubuntu
<Evergete> @schedule rome
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 14 Aug 21:00: Technical Board | 15 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu | 16 Aug 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Aug 00:00: Forum Council meeting | 21 Aug 17:00: Kernel Team | 22 Aug 14:00: Edubuntu
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Technical Board | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 Aug 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 16 Aug 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 20 Aug 22:00 UTC: Forum Council meeting | 21 Aug 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 22 Aug 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<calc> hello
<mdz_> hi
<mjg59> Evening
<calc> btw i have a test patch that may fix the ooo bug completely
<calc> i already found where the bug is and was able to work around it locally by disabling the bad patch, if this corrected patch works I can upload OOo with working fontconfig hinting support as well (thats what i had to disable to get it to work locally)
<mdz_> mjg59: seen Keybuk?
<mdz_> have pinged sabdfl
<mjg59> Not since earlier
<mjg59> Can wait a few minutes, I guess
<mdz_> phoning
<mdz_> Keybuk: just phoned you
<Keybuk> oh?
<mdz_> yes, I don't think I've ever successfully reached you on your phone though :-P
<mdz_> SMSed sabdfl
<Keybuk> ah yes, I have a missed call
<calc> heh
<calc> when my phone is in my pocket i can't hear it even when its set to loudest setting :\
<mdz_> keescook: we're waiting for sabdfl to process developer applications, but we can start discussing your item now
<keescook> mdz_: okay, excellent.  the proposal was designed during the sprint, and we figured it'd need TB approval.
<mdz_> keescook: the proposal seems to more or less document current practice
<mdz_> the one point I'm uncertain about is the second bullet
<mdz_> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 19:01. The chair is mdz_.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC] , [IDEA] , [ACTION] , [AGREED] , [LINK] , [VOTE] 
<mdz_> [TOPIC]  Review StableReleaseUpdates/MicroReleaseExceptions -- KeesCook
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review StableReleaseUpdates/MicroReleaseExceptions -- KeesCook
<keescook> right, the basic "unknown" was "who approves packages that get micro-version updates instead of minimal patches for SRU?"
<mdz_> (pasting for MootBot's benefit)
<mdz_> <mdz_> keescook: the proposal seems to more or less document current practice
<mdz_>  the one point I'm uncertain about is the second bullet
<keescook> the 2nd bullet is for when a micro update includes a security fix, and extracting it is hard (i.e. firefox)
<mdz_> keescook: this point seems to be addressing a different issue than the others
<mjg59> mdz_: Can you clarify which level of indentation you're referring to?
<mdz_> mjg59: outermost
<keescook> it would allow for the security team to publish a micro update via -security instead of via an SRU
<mdz_> On a case-by-case basis, if the security team rates the chance of vulnerability exploitation greater than the chance of regression for a given update, it can skip SRU and go directly through the security queue.
<mdz_> </quote>
<mdz_> keescook: the security team already publishes updates via -security per default, no?
<mdz_> there's always been a sort of implicit exception for security vis SRU
<mdz_> [LINK]  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates/MicroReleaseExceptions
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates/MicroReleaseExceptions
<keescook> mdz_: correct, this is basically providing a process outline for what is already done
<keescook> the "new" part is the "how do we add packages to the micro-update exception list"?
<keescook> this grew from a desire to do mysql micro-releases in SRU
<keescook> and php
<keescook> (for example)
<mdz_> keescook: ok, so we're addressing two separate exceptions: 1. security updates in general being exempt from SRU by nature, and 2. exceptions to SRU for specific packages where it would otherwise apply ?
<keescook> 1) is already well-documented (bullet 2 is a clarification about how security and SRU processes might collide)
<mdz_> the first being documentation of current practice, and the second a proposed change
<keescook> 2) "we want to do micro-updates of packages, current SRU process requires a 'minimal patch': we want to do upstream versions"
<keescook> this proposal is about SRU (the 2nd bullet just confused things by bringing up security)  The 3rd bullet was pitti and my first guess at who should own the exception list, we also considered the TB
<mdz_> keescook: should we remove the second point then?
<keescook> I don't might dropping it; it was clear to me, but someone at the sprint wanted it clarified, so I saw no harm in adding it.
<mdz_> keescook: I don't see harm in clarifying that in the SRU page, if it isn't already, but it has nothing to do with the proposal regarding micro-updates as far as I know
<mjg59> In the absence of the second point, who is responsible for handling the decision process?
<keescook> okay, noted.
<mdz_> SRU says: "This process is to be followed for all updates except those to fix security updates, which are only released by the Ubuntu security team. Security procedures are documented at SecurityUpdateProcedures."
<keescook> mjg59: that's part of the decision I'm seeking.  pitti and I were proposing the security team own it, but it felt like something the TB might want to own.
<mdz_> mjg59: the decision process is addressed in the third point
<mdz_> "The security team will have the responsibility to maintain and review the list of packages that are exceptions to the SRU rule, as well as approve package additions."
<mdz_> I'm not so sure that the security team is the right place to make this decision
<mdz_> especially since security updates are specifically excluded from the policy
<keescook> I'm happy changing it; we just wanted to have a starting point to work from. :)
<keescook> well, note, of course, that the micro-update rule _does_ apply to security updates.  SUP requires minimal patches too.
<keescook> this would be the documented exception to SUP as well (since we already do this for firefox, etc)
<mdz_> keescook: ok, please drop the security exception then, since SRU already has an exception in it
<mdz_> keescook: you can reference the same exception in SUP if you like
<keescook> I will drop point 2, and clarify the exception as an SRU/SUP exception.
<mdz_> ok
<mdz_> so I think a reasonable process for adding packages to the list is for the proposer (whomever that might be) to assess whether the package meets the criteria, and mail that to the tech board for confirmation
<mdz_> mjg59,Keybuk: ?
<mjg59> Is the assumption that we'll approve by mail?
<keescook> what level of +1ing will be required via email?
<mdz_> mjg59: yes
<mdz_> keescook: I think confirmation by any TB member is sufficient in general
<Keybuk> that seems reasonable
<mjg59> Ok. If we're going to this level of documentation, I'd probably prefer it if the approval process is mentioned
<keescook> one thing that occurs to me now is do we need to change the SRU verification process at all?  with a micro-bump, there may be larger areas of testing needed.
<mdz_> agreed, the approval process should be included
<mdz_> keescook: the current policy basically leaves it to the discretion of the SRU team, no?
<keescook> I guess that's true, yes.
<mdz_> in which case, I think that's sufficient.  they can judge case-by-case what sort of testing is needed
<mdz_> IIRC the tech board more or less blessed the existing exceptions
<mdz_> so they can be grandfathered in
<mdz_> any other comments or concerns about kees' proposal?
<keescook> okay, I will mark them as such; I've adjusted the exception wiki to reflect the TB approval process.  can you ACK?
<mdz_> keescook: if you make the edits now, we can go ahead and approve it officially
<mjg59> Sounds good to me
<mdz_> keescook: I'd note that the request for an exception should include an explanation of how the package meets the criteria
<mdz_> that is, the tech board isn't expected to do the research, just verify it
<keescook> mdz_: ah, right
<keescook> "The request is expected to include justification against the above criteria."
<mdz_> fine with me
<mdz_> ok
<keescook> okay, edits made; I've marked it "ratified", based on +1s from mdz_ and mjg59
<mdz_> [VOTE]  keescook's proposal at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates/MicroReleaseExceptions, revision 4
<mjg59> Right, sounds fine by me
<MootBot> Please vote on:  keescook's proposal at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates/MicroReleaseExceptions, revision 4.
<mdz_> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from mdz_. 1 for, 0 against. Count is now 1
<mjg59> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from mjg59. 2 for, 0 against. Count is now 2
<Keybuk> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Keybuk. 3 for, 0 against. Count is now 3
<mdz_> #endvote
<MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 0 against. Total: 3
* keescook claps
<keescook> hadn't seen the voting features of MootBot before.  nice.  :)
<mdz_> [AGREED]  ratified  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates/MicroReleaseExceptions
<MootBot> AGREED received:  ratified  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates/MicroReleaseExceptions
<mdz_> [ACTION]  keescook to update StableReleaseUpdates accordingly
<MootBot> ACTION received:  keescook to update StableReleaseUpdates accordingly
<keescook> great, thanks everyone.  :)
<mdz_> sabdfl says he is having connectivity problems
<mdz_> we will go ahead without him
<mjg59> Ok.
<mdz_> [TOPIC]  application from Chris Cheney for ubuntu-core-dev: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2007-July/000236.html
<MootBot> New Topic:  application from Chris Cheney for ubuntu-core-dev: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2007-July/000236.html
<mdz_> calc: still here?
<calc> mdz_: yes
<mdz_> ok, good
<mdz_> (reading your wiki page)
<Keybuk> calc: you applied for MOTU only recently, correct?
<calc> Keybuk: around June 13 iirc
<calc> hmm June 23 actually
<mdz_> calc: you've been a Debian developer for quite a while, but only recently got involved with Ubuntu development.  What are you finding different about it?
<calc> mdz_: well merges aren't needed on the debian side of course, but also translations being done via launchpad, and the split of upload ability between main/universe, probably other things i am forgetting at the moment
<calc> and the much quicker release cycle :)
<mdz_> calc: the release cycle is a big one.  core developers are expected to "have a strong working knowledge of Ubuntu project procedures, especially those related to the release process and support commitments, and an understanding of the reasons why they exist"
<calc> ok
<mdz_> calc: feature freeze is this Thursday.  what will change in terms of development activity at that time?
<calc> only bug fix uploads are allowed past that point unless an exception is requested and granted
<calc> which i will be filing for OpenOffice since its final release is close to the release date of Gutsy overall
<mdz_> calc: indeed.  this implicitly means it is the deadline for feature projects
<mdz_> calc: eek.  how close?
* calc checks to see if he has the exact date
<calc> the place i am looking just mentions sept 2007
<calc> i think another page may have more detailed date, but i don't recall the url for it
<mdz_> calc: what does our release manager think about it?
<calc> openoffice and ubnutu releases have generally been close together
<calc> er ubuntu
<calc> eg oo 2.2 mar 2007, 2.0.4 sep 2006, etc
<calc> mdz_: i believe that he knows about the release schedule but i'll ask him about it again to make certain he is completely aware of the situation
<mdz_> the more advance notice you can give, the better.  last-minute exceptions make for grumpy release managers
<sabdfl> hi all sorry for the delay, network issues
<mdz_> sabdfl: reviewing  application from Chris Cheney for ubuntu-core-dev: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2007-July/000236.html
<mdz_> sabdfl: (calc)
<calc> mdz_: yes, i am going to make sure not to let things run late like *cough* tribe-4 *cough* :\
<sabdfl> no reservations on my side
<calc> mdz_: i ran into several unforeseen snags at the last minute so i'm going to make sure to get it done in plenty of time from now on, so I won't be annoying the RM anymore
<mdz_> calc: another defining characteristic for core developers is participation in planning feature projects.  do you have any plans in this area for gutsy+1?
<calc> mdz_: not yet
<mdz_> calc: do you know how the feature planning process works overall?
<calc> mdz_: i am interested in the hardware database situation but last time i looked it appeared to be on hold
<calc> mdz_: i have reviewed it before but I don't recall all the details of how it works
<calc> mdz_: high level overview that i do remember is create a plan in the wiki and then present it at UDS for other people to critique
<mdz_> calc: I'm not sure how well documented it is, to be honest
<mdz_> calc: most ideas get refined at UDS, yes
<mdz_> sabdfl,mjg59,Keybuk: do you have any questions about calc's application?
<mdz_> keescook: would you like to say anything on Chris' behalf, as his sponsor?
<keescook> yup, he's a quick learner for all the merge work we did together, and the OOo updates all went without regression, so I'm quite happy there too
<sabdfl> none, +1
<keescook> his pre-existing debian packaging knowledge is better than mine.  ;)
<mjg59> Given his level of involvement in Debian and what I've seen so far, I'm pretty happy
<mdz_> calc: are you making some progress in getting involved upstream?
<calc> mdz_: yes, on the ooo-build side of things I have had my first set of patches committed so I can now file for direct svn access to the gnome svn repo
<mdz_> calc: that's excellent, thanks
<Keybuk> the short time in MOTU is a concern for me since he won't be as familar with our procedures and how they differ from what he's used to, but otherwise +1
<mdz_> [VOTE]   application from Chris Cheney for ubuntu-core-dev
<MootBot> Please vote on:   application from Chris Cheney for ubuntu-core-dev.
<calc> mdz_: on the OOo (sun) side last I checked they hadn't officially accepted my copyright waiver yet so I don't know if I can make changes there yet
<mjg59> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from mjg59. 1 for, 0 against. Count is now 1
<calc> mdz_: but I am subscribed to the various lists so I keep track of things on the lists also
<Keybuk> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Keybuk. 2 for, 0 against. Count is now 2
<mdz_> +1, based on long Debian track record and recent involvement.  you seem to be getting up to speed very quickly
<mdz_> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from mdz_. 3 for, 0 against. Count is now 3
<calc> Keybuk: feel free to lart me anytime I make a mistake, but I'll do my best to not screw up anything :)
<sabdfl> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from sabdfl. 4 for, 0 against. Count is now 4
<mdz_> #endvote
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. Total: 4
<mdz_> calc: congratulations and thanks
<calc> thank you all :)
* keescook hugs calc
<sabdfl> erk, MootBot, listen up in advance ;-)
<mdz_> [ACTION]  somebody to update Launchpad
<MootBot> ACTION received:  somebody to update Launchpad
* calc hugs Keybuk 
<calc> er
* calc hugs keescook 
<mdz_> [TOPIC]  application for ubuntu-core-dev from Lionel Le Folgoc: [WWW]  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2007-June/000162.html
<MootBot> New Topic:  application for ubuntu-core-dev from Lionel Le Folgoc: [WWW]  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2007-June/000162.html
<mdz_> mr_pouit: are you here?
<mr_pouit> mdz_: yes
<mdz_> exellent
<mdz_> gpocentek: are you here?  you seem to be Lionel's main sponsor
<sabdfl> calc: are you ccheney in LP?
<Keybuk> calc: it's ok, I don't mind unexpected hugs
<mdz_> mr_pouit: I didn't know we had French forums.  are they entirely separate from the english language forums?
<calc> sabdfl: yes
<sabdfl> done
<mr_pouit> mdz_: yes, they are hosted on a server with several other european locoteams iirc
<mdz_> mr_pouit: is that out of necessity, or just because it was more convenient?
<mr_pouit> I think it was more convenient, but the "main" admin (yann2) would give a better answer
<mr_pouit> (because there is also a separate wiki and planet...)
<sabdfl> mr_pouit: could you summarise your plan on the cdrecord front?
<keescook> I have to run off, but I'd like to make a quick comment on mr_pouit's application: USN-497-1 was almost entirely his work, and even included a proposed USN description.  excellent work, imho. (https://launchpad.net/bugs/132046)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 132046 in xfce4-terminal "SECURITY: URL handling allows remote shell command execution" [Medium,Fix released] 
<mr_pouit> sabdfl: my plans were to promote libburnia, which is an alternative currently under development, but unfortunately it is nt mature enough yet, so for gutsy at least, I think cdrkit is still the solution
<mdz_> mr_pouit: you mention that you've been active in reviewing packages on REVU.  what kind of things do you look for when reviewing packages?
<mdz_> keescook: thanks
<sabdfl> are there areas other than cd burning and cubuntu that you are interested in?
<sabdfl> erk... x
<Mithrandir> (are non-TB people allowed to ask applicants questions?)
<mdz_> Mithrandir: sure
<mdz_> Mithrandir: just not vote ;-)
<Mithrandir> mdz_: sure. :-)
<mdz_> though MootBot doesn't enforce that at the moment
<Mithrandir> mr_pouit: what's the relation of libburnia and libisofs/libburn?
<mr_pouit> Mithrandir: I think there was a lib called libisofs which existed, but a fork was created, and called libburnia, but ships libburn and libisofs
<mr_pouit> mdz_: I try to do as if I was making the package
<Mithrandir> mr_pouit: so http://icculus.org/burn/ is superseded by http://libburnia.pykix.org/ ?
<mr_pouit> mdz_: so copyright issues, respect of most points of the debian policy (except nmus for instance), I buid it in pbuilder, and run it then...
<mdz_> mr_pouit: are there any particular policy errors which are common in your experience?
<mr_pouit> Mithrandir: I think that the one at icculus.org isn't very active anymore
<mr_pouit> so yeah
<Mithrandir> mr_pouit: ok, thanks.
<highvolt1ge> mr_pouit: wow, it would be really cool to have libburnia in ubuntu!
<mr_pouit> highvolt1ge: it's already in universe
<highvolt1ge> s/ubuntu/main :)
<mjg59> It's good to see that there's work being done in this field
<mjg59> The continued dependence on driving cdrkit is less than idea
<pygi> hello
<mr_pouit> pygi: :)
<mr_pouit> (pygi is taking care of libburnia)
<mr_pouit> mdz_: the most common are copyright issues...
<mdz_> (delivery at the door, brb)
<mr_pouit> (missing full licenses texts in the orig)
<mjg59> mr_pouit: What are your plans for integrating improved CD support in main?
<mdz_> (back)
<mdz_> mr_pouit: what about technical issues?  what kinds of technical errors have you noticed in the packages you've reviewed?
<mjg59> As in, integration into the distribution (rather than just providing stuff)
<sabdfl> mr_pouit: are you interested in the GUI / user experience of cd burning, or just the kernel / console aspect?
<mr_pouit> mjg59: I use and try to take care of brasero for some time, and I think it could be the good app to improve burning experience (for gtk used at least)
<mjg59> mr_pouit: Sounds promising
<mr_pouit> sabdfl: more for the gui aspect with brasero at the moment
<sabdfl> ok
<mr_pouit> mdz_: issues with libraries (sonames for instance, files in worng packages {,-dev})
<sabdfl> no further questions, yer-honner
<pygi> please allow me to kick in just for a second?
<mjg59> Sure
<pygi> I'd just like to say that from the low-level stuff regarding cd-recording mr_pouit (and everyone else who wants it) has and will have all the support from me for as long as I'm here
<pygi> (with no idea how long will that be anymore, but ...)
<pygi> </done>
<mjg59> Ok. Any more questions?
<mdz_> mr_pouit: how well does the Ubuntu release process serve Xubuntu?  are there things that you think would work better if changes were made?
<mr_pouit> mdz_: I think that's almost ok... I only feel that xubuntu needs a bit more love.
<mr_pouit> for instance, I don't think enough people test alpha release
<mr_pouit> (and for xubuntu, a big problem is gnome and its dependencies...)
<mdz_> mr_pouit: how is gnome a big problem?
<mr_pouit> xubuntu was aimed for not so fast machines, and including gnome apps would have increased memory needs
<mr_pouit> (I am not totally convinced that's still the case)
<mdz_> mr_pouit: so the problem is what exactly?  the lack of gnome apps?
<mr_pouit> it's sometimes hard to find gtk only apps which have similar features to gnome ones
<mdz_> assessing memory requirements is tricky.  Ubuntu is difficult to install on some systems with 256M of memory, but many systems share 25% of that with video
<mdz_> mr_pouit: ok, so the problem isn't gnome, but a lack of alternatives to gnome :-)
<mr_pouit> yes :)
<mdz_> any other questions for mr_pouit?
<mdz_> [VOTE]   Lionel Le Folgoc for ubuntu-core-dev
<MootBot> Please vote on:   Lionel Le Folgoc for ubuntu-core-dev.
<sabdfl> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from sabdfl. 1 for, 0 against. Count is now 1
<mjg59> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from mjg59. 2 for, 0 against. Count is now 2
<mdz_> +1 good support from sponsors and record of strong participation
<MootBot> +1 received from mdz_. 3 for, 0 against. Count is now 3
<mdz_> Keybuk: ?
<mdz_> ok, need to move on.  don't know what happened to Keybuk
<mdz_> #endvote
<MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 0 against. Total: 3
<mdz_> mr_pouit: congratulations
<mdz_> [ACTION]  sabdfl to update launchpad
<MootBot> ACTION received:  sabdfl to update launchpad
<mr_pouit> thank you all :)
<mdz_> [TOPIC]  Compiz by default -- MatthewGarrett
<MootBot> New Topic:  Compiz by default -- MatthewGarrett
<mjg59> Want me to introduce this?
<mdz_> mjg59: I've read over your email, but yes, please
<mjg59> Ok
<mjg59> The summary is that compiz still has pretty much the same level of functional regression as it did at this point in the feisty release cycle
<mjg59> The main improvement has been in its level of window management
<sabdfl> done
<mjg59> We're still faced with two major problems - anything using Xv and any windowed 3D applications
<mdz_> its configuration compatibility with metacity has also improved greatly
<sabdfl> Xv the old image display program?
<mvo> basic Xv support is in place for video-i810 and video-ati
<mdz_> sabdfl: no, the Xvideo extension
<mjg59> sabdfl: Xv as in accelerated X video playback
<mvo> nothing composited though
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> thanks
<mdz_> the thing which does video scaling and colorspace conversion in hardware
<sabdfl> that's because of overlays?
<mvo> I have a pending patch for -video-intel
<mjg59> sabdfl: Yes
<mdz_> Xv works fine for me, it just isn't composited
<mjg59> Some quantity of basic functionality can be restored, which gets us to the point where video playback works providing you're not doing anything that transforms the window
<mvo> windowed 3d will not be ready for gutsy
<mdz_> 3D is a bit messier
<mdz_> mvo: Xv compositing was demoed at UDS, no?
<mvo> mdz_: I was not in charge back then I can not say for sure. we have patches for mplayer that work
<mvo> but nothing for gstreamer
<mvo> and its not a straightforward port
<mdz_> the issues with Xv and windowed 3D are cosmetic and pretty easy to work around by disabling desktop effects
<mvo> upstream thinks that the compiz video interface is not the final one so they are reluctant to add support for a moving target (from what I have heared)
<mjg59> Right, David Reveman has implemented a means of providing accelreated playback with composited output
<mdz_> I'm more concerned about the 3D performance issue, which is less obvious and a functional problem
<mjg59> But it requires moderately heavy patches to the Xv application
<mjg59> So it's not a general solution
<mvo> indeed
<mjg59> The 3D performance issue is due to all GL operations now having to go via the X server
<mjg59> There's no intrinsic reason for this to cause a significant loss of performance
<mjg59> But right now, it does
<mjg59> And it's going to take a while for that to be rewritten
<mdz_> with the nvidia driver, I saw 3D performance issues even full-screen
<mjg59> I'd argue that the issues are somewhat more than cosmetic - the damage left behind by 3D applications right now is likely to obscure sections of any 3D-using application that's more ocmplicated than a single window
<mjg59> mdz_: That shouldn't be the case - nvidia have an indirected X implementation that works properly
<mdz_> I can have a look at it tomorrow if I know what to look for
<mdz_> but in short, it was dog slow
<mjg59> As mdz says, these are issues that can be worked around by disabling desktop effects
<mjg59> But they are functional regressions, and I don't know that we've fully weighed the cost/benefit analysis
<mjg59> (This is why RH still haven't shipped compiz by default in Fedora)
<sabdfl> if a user turns off desktop effects, do both problems disappear?
<mjg59> Yes
<mjg59> The question is whether we want bling but broken or working but dull
<sabdfl> we don't restart X, do we?
<mjg59> No
<mdz_> I don't see a functional problem with video
<sabdfl> surely extensions / aiglx etc are there all the time then?
<mdz_> which chipsets are affected by that?
<sabdfl> can we detect when an app is using wither Xvideo or GL?
<mjg59> mdz_: Anything other than nvidia to varying extents
<mjg59> sabdfl: The window manager can't, no
<mdz_> mjg59: I'm on ATI here and it works fine, just isn't composited
<sabdfl> and pop up a warning - which takes them to the desktop effects / appearance dialog?
<mjg59> sabdfl: Nope
<mdz_> windowed and fullscreen
<mjg59> sabdfl: It's not the presence of the extensions - it's whether you're rendering to an offscreen framebuffer or not
<mvo> I pateched -video-{intel,i810} today to be at the same level as -ati
<mvo> patched even
<sabdfl> mjg59: can something else monitor X and tell when those subsystems are activated by an app?
<sabdfl> ok
<mjg59> sabdfl: In theory it's possible
<mdz_> not really, that information is in the guts of the X server
<mjg59> But it would involve huge hacks to the server
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> jez-askin
<mdz_> i.e., not 2 days before feature freeze
<mdz_> I have different feelings about the 3 different issues mjg59 has raised
<mdz_> I think that video, if mvo is correct and it is as functional on intel as what I see on ati and nvidia, is a non-issue
<mdz_> it looks funny while window is being dragged, but then is perfect as soon as it is placed
<mdz_> and full-screen works without a hitch
<mdz_> I shouldn't say non-issue
<mdz_> but I think the bling factor outweighs the cosmetic issue
<mdz_> since it's cosmetic vs. cosmetic
<mdz_> the second issue, of windowed 3D applications not being composited, seems like another example of the same
<mjg59> mdz_: It's not purely a matter of them not being composited in that case
<mdz_> but worse
<mjg59> It's the fact that you get no damage signals
<mjg59> So applications aren't redrawn until you move them
<mdz_> when i drag the window and release it, the stuff at the old location is clobbered with a frame of glxgears
<mjg59> Yes
<mdz_> and that's pretty ugly
<mjg59> It gives the impression of something that doesn't work properly
<mdz_> so I'm on the fence about that one at the moment
<mjg59> And I don't think our default desktop should give that impression
<mdz_> mostly because 3D applications are a) fairly rare, and b) in a professional setting, not deployed on intel graphics
<mdz_> nobody uses intel graphics for serious 3D work
<mjg59> mdz_: It's not limited to Intel
<mdz_> and that's the only place where desktop effects are enabled by default
<mjg59> Ati will also have the issue
<mdz_> well, and some ancient ATI like my lpatop
<mdz_> laptop
<mvo> it will be enalbed on -ati too
<mjg59> mdz_: Well, ancient is unfair - anything up to a bit over a year ago
<mdz_> oh, things must have gotten better in -ati since I was last informed
<mjg59> At least, we do nothing to prevent it being run on r3/400
<mdz_> so it works on r300?
<mjg59> I hope so, otherwise a lot of people are going to be very unhappy
<mvo> I do not have a r300 for testing, but it should work
<mdz_> I'm even more uncertain, then
<mjg59> The r300/r400 Radeons were common in business-class laptops for the past few years
<mdz_> I don't know to what extent people rely on that configuration
<mdz_> sabdfl,Keybuk: thoughts?
<mdz_> (I sent an SMS to Keybuk, but no response.  I hope he's OK...)
<sabdfl> mjg59: do you expect these issues to be much better in the next 4-6 months?
<mjg59> sabdfl: In terms of video, yes
<mjg59> Intel already have textured video support, but it only works with exa
<mjg59> Which we can probably switch to post-gutsy
<mjg59> 3D? Very hard to say
<mjg59> The basic code exists, but it depends on TTM. I don't think anyone is going to put any money on when that'll land
<mdz_> mjg59: exa post-gutsy -> even in the context of 8.04 LTS?
<mjg59> At the moment only RH are doing any real development on it
<mjg59> mdz_: Well, yeah, that's the obvious concern
<sabdfl> TTM?
<mjg59> Intel, at least, are putting most of their dev work into EXA now
<mjg59> sabdfl: A new memory manager for 3D
<sabdfl> EXA>
<sabdfl> talloc based?
<mjg59> sabdfl: A new(ish) acceleration architecture for 2D operations
<mjg59> sabdfl: No - the main difference is that memory allocations are no longer static
<mjg59> Textures can be moved between main memory and card memory much more easily
<sabdfl> if we expect it to be ok for gutsy+1 LTS, then i would say let's do it, the feedback will give us more confidence for the LTS dcision
<mjg59> I have no faith in TTM being ready within 12 months
<sabdfl> if we expect it to be not-great for the LTS, then we should realise we are looking at a year's delay
<mjg59> These problems are hard
<sabdfl> ok
<mjg59> There's a lot of real development work that needs to be done
<mdz_> as a (subjective) data point, I haven't seen any reviews of Gutsy comment on the fact that compiz is enabled by default in these situations
<mdz_> I do see positive press about the effects themselves though
<mjg59> My personal opinion is that this technology is still not ready for default use
<mjg59> Bear in mind that reviewers at this point know that they're dealing with a beta release
<sabdfl> mjg59: are you OK with the experience on Intel, and the roadmap for Intel graphics between now and 8.04?
<mjg59> The general community mindset often seems to be that public criticism of non-working features before final release is unfair
<mjg59> sabdfl: I doubt the 3D issues will be solved on Intel by 8.04
<mjg59> The code currently exists, but requires features that probably aren't going to hit the mainstream kernel by then
<mjg59> And currently performance is in the 12fps range
<mdz_> and while it's cranking away at 12fps, at least on nvidia, the rest of the system is unusable
<sabdfl> but, turning off the effects solves that problem completely
<mdz_> the X server seems bottlenecked
<mdz_> sabdfl: correct
<mjg59> sabdfl: Yes, but I think asking users to turn off effects in order to get 1995-level functionality is a bit unreasonable
<mdz_> hey, we barely had glxgears in 1995
<sabdfl> hmm... the only 3D graphics I see on my laptop are the screensavers
<mdz_> at all
<mjg59> mdz_: Yeah, but they at least worked properly :)
<mdz_> probably around 12fps
<mjg59> (Without leaving damage)
<sabdfl> do the screensavers disable composite before they kick in?
<mjg59> sabdfl: They're full-screen, so less of an issue
<mdz_> there's no issue with moving the window, as they're full-screen
<sabdfl> from my perspective, it feels like trading cosmetic issues
<sabdfl> and being less technical, i would lean to the new-and-exciting rather than the older, more functional capability
<mdz_> sabdfl: not in the case of the performance problem
<mjg59> Kind of. In one case we maintain the status quo - in another we add stuff we didn't previously have, at the cost of breaking things that used to work
<mdz_> there are functional regressions with 3D
<sabdfl> the performance problem goes away, though, if you disable the effects?
<mdz_> correct
<mjg59> sabdfl: Yes, but how do we communicate that to users?
<mdz_> new desktop wallpaper
<mdz_> "if anything looks wonky, try this"
<sabdfl> we have excellent forums :-)
<mdz_> it's easy to write it off if the user has enabled the effects, then has a problem like this which can be solved by reverting
<mdz_> trickier when they haven't done anything and has a problem out of the box
<mdz_> s/has/have/
<mjg59> mdz_: Translation nightmare
<calc> i hear that compiz causes much higher power consumption on laptops too (not sure if this is actually true) so should it be default on laptops?
<mdz_> mjg59: pictograms
<ompaul> sabdfl, you are talking about people who may not know anything other than the CD that came with some windows magazine .. so you need to make it verbose - perhaps a stalling of the install that has someone say System Administration Video Troubleshooter
<ompaul> sabdfl, s/say/Type - so they know where to find it on the menu
<sabdfl> calc: odd, i just noticed that the laptop fan turned on as soon as i enabled effects
<sabdfl> mdz: what, we don't have gnash desktop backgrounds working yet?
<mdz_> mvo: would it be possible to display a notification on first login *only* in cases where compiz is running by default?
<sabdfl> moving pictograms!
<mvo> mdz_: that should be possible
<calc> perhaps tie compiz into the laptop-mode stuff so it is turned off when not on AC power?
<mjg59> calc: No.
<mdz_> how about displaying a note to the user explaining that the wobbly effects are a technology preview, and explaining how to turn them off?
<mjg59> "I unplug AC and all my windows rearrange themselves"
<sabdfl> that would give a very strange user experience, calc
<mdz_> "we believe they work well for a majority of cases, but there are known problems with X and Y"
<calc> mjg59: hmm, yea that would suck
<mvo> mdz_: sure, we could do set, we may do the opposite too, if we believe that desktop effects would work on the system, display a notification with a easy option to turn them on
<mvo> s/set/that/
<mdz_> mvo: ooohhh
<mdz_> could it be a one-click option from the notification?
<mvo> mdz_: yes, can add actions
<mvo> mdz_: buttons to notifications
<mdz_> that's an interesting idea
<sabdfl> better for that notification to bring up the appearance dialog
<calc> sabdfl: yes, especially since its not just a 3d on/off but completely different WM :\
<sabdfl> so people know that's where to find it
<sabdfl> folks, i have an early start tomorrow
<mdz_> this is a critical issue for 7.10
<sabdfl> mjg59: thanks very much for raising this, and the analysis
<sabdfl> i'll abstain in a vote for now
<mdz_> we don't need to lock ourselves in, but we need to pay attention to it, and soon
<sabdfl> mdz, could you send me a log of remaining conversation?
<sabdfl> i'm inclined to say "let's take a small risk on it"
<mdz_> if you're leaving, then it's only mjg59 and me; mjg59 is against it and I'd abstain at this point
<sabdfl> but not enough to vote
<sabdfl> mjg59: would you be swayed by large numbers of "please do it we know it has issues but it's great"?
<sabdfl> comments?
<mdz_> I'd like to pursue ways to communicate better with the user about this feature
<sabdfl> by people who don't hack on that code but who are strong ubuntu users?
<mjg59> sabdfl: I think it depends which markets we're worried about here
<mdz_> early adopters
<sabdfl> this will depend on who you ask :-)
<mdz_> and complete novices
* Keybuk returns
<sabdfl> myself, i'd say developers, early adopters, and media
<Keybuk> (and I've just caught up on log, sorry for the dropping off)
<sabdfl> howdy scott
<sabdfl> i think novices are also eye  candy aware
* pygi would say that developers care little about eye candy
<sabdfl> though perhaps less tolerant of a total failure like X doesn't start, they don't mind some screen issues
<mdz_> they are also less likely to trip on 3D use cases
<sabdfl> all of these folks love to show their linux machine doing something that windows cannot
<mjg59> My concern is that this sends out the message that we're more worried about bling than we are about working software
<sabdfl> mdz_: +1
<sabdfl> mjg59: working? will either crash?
<mdz_> mjg59: perhaps some of us are *cough*sbdf*cough* ;-)
<mjg59> sabdfl: 3D stuff, visual artifacts
<mjg59> I haven't been using compiz
<mjg59> (For this sort of reason)
<sabdfl> sbdf?
<Keybuk> mjg59: lies, I've seen drop-shadows on your windows at Uncle Steve's before <g>
<mjg59> Keybuk: Yeah, that lasted about a day
* sabdfl also turned it off
<Keybuk> really?  what made you turn it off?
<mdz_> sabdfl: ??
* Keybuk considers sabdfl a core use case
<sabdfl> oh dear
<sabdfl> cats
<sabdfl> pigeons
<mjg59> Ok. I think I'll leave my argument at this:
<sabdfl> first, i should say my compiz and beryl settings were so far from default i had weirdly wobbly windows
<mjg59> Ubuntu has a reputation for Just Working
<mjg59> Compiz does not Just Work
<mdz_> sabdfl represents at once the uber-adopter who wants the latest bits at all costs, and the perfectionist intolerant of all faults :-)
<mdz_> mjg59: it Mostly Works
<sabdfl> ok. ok. mvo showed me a way to reset to defaults, will leave it switched on for now and reserve judgement
<sabdfl> we do have a reputation for both "cutting edge cool" and "just works"
<sabdfl> and that's what we're trading here
<mvo> sabdfl: compizconfig-settings-manager has a global reset button too (since today :)
<sabdfl> bugger. ctrl-shift-left is not working now. could that be compiz? to select word left
<sabdfl> thanks mvo :-)
<mdz_> sabdfl: that duality spells trouble
<sabdfl> mdz_: also, opportunity :-)
<sabdfl> mjg59: thanks again for raising this now, it's in the nick of time and totally appropriate for TB
<mdz_> I think there are valid arguments both ways on this issue
<mdz_> I don't feel comfortable taking a decision just yet
<mdz_> I'd like to throw it open to a larger crowd
<mdz_> at least ubuntu-devel-discussish
<sabdfl> can we start with mjg59's TB email to u-d-d?
<mjg59> Sure
<mdz_> not verbatim, but with annotations from this discussion
<mdz_> mvo: do you think you could launch that discussion?
<mvo> mdz_: sure, I can write a mail about this tomorrow
<mdz_> mvo: ok, I've forwarded you the original mail from mjg59 to tech-board
<mvo> mdz_: ok, I will use that and the discussion from today
<mdz_> [ACTION]  mvo to start more public discussion with summary of the issues
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mvo to start more public discussion with summary of the issues
<mdz_> I think it would be wise to defer the automatix discussion to a later date
<mjg59> Ok
<mdz_> the short version from me is that we should continue to not ship automatix, and do an updated analysis of the use cases it tries to meet post-7.10
<mdz_> and see if we can improve them with the existing tools
<mdz_> but anyway
<mdz_> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 21:18.
<sabdfl> i would like us to have a happier relationship with automatixz
<mdz_> thanks, everyone, for hanging around this long
<sabdfl> but i think that needs to be based on helping them to get the results they are looking for in a way consistent with debian and ubuntu policy
<sabdfl> and i haven't been encouraged by their response there
<sabdfl> ok, another time
<sabdfl> night all!
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 Aug 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 16 Aug 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 20 Aug 22:00 UTC: Forum Council meeting | 21 Aug 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 22 Aug 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 22 Aug 20:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers
<nealmcb> the next community council meeting was just scheduled, but the time is contradictory - the visible time is 1100 UTC, but the link is for 1300 UTC
<nealmcb> I wrote to mikeb- about it...
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-08-15
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-meeting.log
<kraut> moin
<highvoltage> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 15 Aug 20:00: Edubuntu | 16 Aug 20:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 20 Aug 22:00: Forum Council meeting | 21 Aug 15:00: Kernel Team | 22 Aug 12:00: Edubuntu | 22 Aug 20:00: Xubuntu Developers
<highvoltage> hmmm, isn't the launchpad-users meeting also supposed to be in there?
<highvoltage> Seveas: does ubotu get the schedule from the fridge?
<popey> Seveas is on holiday isn't he?
<Hobbsee> popey: no, he's back
<popey> oh
<Seveas> popey, I'm back
<popey> so i see :)
<Seveas> highvoltage, yes, from the fridge
<BFTD> @schedule los_angles
<BFTD> @schedule los_angeles
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Los_Angeles: 15 Aug 13:00: Edubuntu | 16 Aug 13:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 20 Aug 15:00: Forum Council meeting | 21 Aug 08:00: Kernel Team | 22 Aug 05:00: Edubuntu | 22 Aug 13:00: Xubuntu Developers
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-meeting.log
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Edubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 16 Aug 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 20 Aug 22:00 UTC: Forum Council meeting | 21 Aug 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 22 Aug 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 22 Aug 20:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers
<RichEd> hi ... coffee and right back and then we kick off
* ogra waits for his coffee to arrive ...
* ogra got his coffee .... 
* ogra waves
<RichEd> back ...
<RichEd> ogra kicks off with technical
<ogra> well, tribe 4 is out ... it was a heavy baby to raise this time ...
<LaserJock> \o/
<ogra> took me quite some time to make the CDs work at all this time
<ogra> lots and lots of thanks go to LaserJock who took care for the live CDs
<LaserJock> it was fun
<ogra> and was well done :)
<LaserJock> well, it made it anyway
<ogra> i wouldnt have managed tribe 4 without you, kudos, really
<LaserJock> blah
<LaserJock> I just help where I can :-)
* pips1 cheers for LaserJock
<LaserJock> I can't do the real stuff like ogra
* RichEd adds a cheer for LaserJock 
* pips1 greets jono
<jono> hey pips1
<ogra> LaserJock, there isnt much more involved than maintaining seeds, building metaoackages and ask for iso rebuilds
<ogra> no magic anymore :)
<ogra> anyway, beyond that scott (who went camping with his family today) wroked his ass off to get ldm2 complete before feature freeze
<ogra> i'm working on merging his last changes before tomorrow
<LaserJock> three cheers for Scotty
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> i havent gotten his stuff building yet though
<ogra> will keep me busy tomorrow
<LaserJock> it sounds great though
<ogra> yeah, its all complete
<LaserJock> really what people are needing
<LaserJock> how are the spec doing as we head to Tribe 5?
<ogra> a list of features (c&p from a mail from scott):
<ogra> 1) Translated into C: check
<ogra> 2) Eliminated delayed mounter: check.
<ogra> 3) Greeter: check.
<ogra> 4) Selectable lang, session, and host: check.
<ogra> 5) Fixed up some server side things for handling multi-hosts: check.
<ogra> 6) Better password handling: check.
<ogra> 7) i18n: added tonight (don't know if I did it right)
<ogra> sooo
<ogra> ldm finally will be translatable, it has proper error messages now, we support multiple application servers to log in to and its a lot speedier ...
<ogra> oh, and we have autologin and unencrypted X transport ....
<ogra> not perfect yet but looots better than any ldm before
<LaserJock> \o/
<ogra> i merged some other fixes, we now support serial lcd touchpads (in some industrial PCs)
<ogra> oh, he's here ....
<ogra> toonix wrote an article for the german linux magazin about ltsp ...
<ogra> everybody take a bow
<toonix> whoops
<ogra> ;)
<LaserJock> toonix: cool
<toonix> Well, I hope it's cool ;)
<LaserJock> well, I don't know german so I can't say it's not anyway ;-)
<ogra> LaserJocks changes are now in the server-addon CD, we still need icons, if you have a spare Gb of bandwith, try it out and do some testing of the UI changes and give feedback to the mailing list or irc
<LaserJock> btw, to test the menu anyway, you don't have to have gutsy
* pips1 makes note to himself to check out the linux magazin
<ogra> feature freeze is tomorrow (as well as upstream version freeze) i havent heard anything from moquist about moodle yet :/
<LaserJock> it should work in any Feisty or Gutsy Ubuntu or Edubuntu machine
<ogra> LaserJock, did you ?
<pips1> toonix: nice nick :-)
<LaserJock> nope
<LaserJock> I'm pretty sure we can get a UVF exception for it
<ogra> i hope so
<ogra> pitti will be on hneymoon
<LaserJock> how hard is feature freeze for the Addon CD
<LaserJock> I was going to try to get a few more apps on
<ogra> as hard as always ...
<pips1> re moodle :-/
<toonix> Normally I call myself Tunix, but this nick is already occupied by someone at FreeNode.
<ogra> no freeze without exceptions ....
<ogra> its just a lot of paperwork
<LaserJock> ogra: but does a new app on the Addon CD count as  a Feature? I'm a bit fuzzy on what counts
<ogra> nah, i dont think you can call that a feature
<pips1> interesting
<ogra> adding a new category for it to teh code might be one
<LaserJock> oh interesting
<ogra> but thats would be small enough to easily get an exception
<LaserJock> no, I don't think categories should change
<LaserJock> I think the ones I wanted were still Science/Math
<LaserJock> I might need to get debian-cd patched to get the icons
<LaserJock> I suppose I should do that ASAP
<ogra> how big is that patch ?
<LaserJock> very small
<LaserJock> just a cp
<ogra> trivial enough ...
<LaserJock> I've already got debian-cd to use the app-install-data-edubuntu .deb
<LaserJock> I just need it to copy icons as well as the .desktop and .directory files
<ogra> oh, remind me to add that to the seeds
<LaserJock> that's only if we use new icons
<LaserJock> if we use existing icons (say from one of the apps) we don't need it
<ogra> well, we still have enough time until final artwork freeze ...
<ogra> (and even then ... its a bugfix)
<LaserJock> mhm
<LaserJock> so I'm pretty set
<LaserJock> I've marked the spec as Beta Available
<LaserJock> I didn't get to dynamic menus :(
<ogra> right, i'll go through the specs on the weekend and set the latest status
<LaserJock> but I think I'll start work on it soon so that it'll be ready to go for Gutsy+1
<ogra> that'd be cool
<ogra> i have a good bunch left from this round but LTSP got new blood at ubuntulive ... :)
<ogra> Francis Giraldeau is caring for clustering solutions etc
<ogra> he did mille-xterm before
<ogra> a solution built around ltsp with clustering for really big setups in universities etc
<ogra> i hope we can offer such a solution inside ltsp with gutsy+1
<pips1> nice one
<ogra> there was also a guy who is very intrested in implementing fat clients for us, i'm still not done writing the basic howto for him to get him started (lack of time) but will do so the next days
<ogra> with the planned authentication server the server team wants to have in gutsy+1 we hopefully will have fat clients then as well
<LaserJock> awesome
<stgraber> main thing would be to have some kind of scp-client working on a fat client, that'd allow easier management of mixed environment with both fat and thin clients
<ogra> stgraber, i'm pondering to switch to italc ....
<pips1> re network-auth for gutsy+1 fingers crossed
<ogra> it would need ltsp5 integration which doesnt exist yet
<stgraber> (btw, hi here :))
<LaserJock> ogra: is italc the gambas one?
<pips1> hey stgraber, you nastly lurker, you!
<ogra> stgraber, italc is what guadalinex uses everywhere ... but its a bit scary security wise ...
<pips1> :-)
<ogra> LaserJock, nope ...
<stgraber> oh, I didn't know of that tool, looks great (as always I only looked at the screenshots :))
<ogra> LaserJock, its in the archive
<LaserJock> openSUSE wants italic (I've been checking out the Edu efforts)
<ogra> and provides pretty much what SCP does ...
<LaserJock> but they also want webmin so ...
<pips1> ogra: I'm surprised about your italc change of mind...
<ogra> it has the advantage of not being bound to a speific setup ...
<ogra> pips1, the code quality didnt get better
<ogra> but teh tour at guadalinex was pretty impressive
<pips1> aha
<pips1> ic
<pips1> i didn't realise they are using it
<ogra> its what the teacher uses to control the classroom
<stgraber> this italc tool seems to be pretty similar as what the school I'm setting up my edubuntu network at are using on Windows (they are using Genevalogic Vision 6 (was Mastereye))
<ogra> thin client manager was always planned as a small tool for single ltsp servers to maintain sessions ...
<pips1> i noticed people asking for the SCP features on the mailing list... dave trask trying to get the VNC stuff to work...
<ogra> currently i dont like the way it goes, it seems to develop bloat ....
<ogra> yeah, after feature freeze i'll concentrate on bugs
<ogra> i'll look what we can do with vnc
<ogra> stgraber started some work on a vnc tool ...
<stgraber> looking at how the Windows tools are working, we'll have some problem with VNC and demo mode
<stgraber> Windows tools are using broadcasting
<stgraber> where we have to use unicast ...
<ogra> and brought me to a simple script that doesnt generate much load to have small screenshots of every screen ...
<ogra> i think i'll switch TCM to this for the preview ...
<stgraber> ogra: btw, I have a little problem with your script :), it freezes the screen while taking the screenshot :)
<ogra> i'm not sure we can get vnc in the client by defaul
<ogra> stgraber, for a millisecond, yes
<ogra> that xwd's fault
<ogra> so manually installing x111vnc might still be necessary
<ogra> *x11
<ogra> i'll look if that can be solved somehow ...
<ogra> ok, i think thats all from my side today ...
<ogra> questions ?
<stgraber> btw, I'll have a working version of my reworked TCM by the end of the week (as it's my deadline for the school I'm testing it at)
<ogra> stgraber, oh, you didnt say you work *on* TCM ... i thought you developed something new ...
<ogra> thats cool
<pips1> ogra: what about schooltool, will it be included by default?
<stgraber> weel, due to the massive UI change I've started at zero and copy/paste some stuff from the current tcm
<stgraber> (proccess management for instance)
<ogra> pips1, oh, thanks for asking
<ogra> no
<ogra> the only schooltool packages we could use need the latest alpha version of zope
<stgraber> (and I use the studentcontrolpanel python thing to access the userlist and all other actions
<stgraber> )
<pips1> ogra: ic
<ogra> which we cant add ...
<ogra> so it will have to wait another release :(
<ogra> stgraber, ah, so its rather a rewrite
<stgraber> yes
<pips1> ogra: oh, btw, what is the state of affairs regarding willow? has that progressed?
<pips1> i mean upstream
<pips1> sorry, this is rather off topic
<LaserJock> pips1: I think Amaranth is gone on to compiz heaven ;-)
<pips1> oh
<ogra_> grr
<ogra_> <ogra> stgraber, ah, so its rather a rewrite
<ogra_> <stgraber> yes
<ogra_> ^^^ the last bit i saw
<pips1> <pips1> ogra: oh, btw, what is the state of affairs regarding willow? has that progressed?
<pips1> <pips1> i mean upstream
<pips1> <pips1> sorry, this is rather off topic
<pips1> <LaserJock> pips1: I think Amaranth is gone on to compiz heaven ;-)
<ogra_> pips1, what LaserJock said
<ogra_> pips1, we're clearly lacking developers
<pips1> hmm
* pips1 sticks up a side note: regarding willow, we are talking about https://blueprints.launchpad.net/baltix/+spec/internet-content-filter
<ogra_> baltix ?
<LaserJock> maybe we should let them write it then ;-)
<ogra_> well, target is dapper
<ogra_> and it was created more than a year ago
<ogra_> if someone is intrested in it they are free to take the willowng package
<ogra_> its only missing some pieces actually
<ogra_> but anyway, our hour is up ...
* ogra_ cant belive we filled 1h with tech chatter ... 
<LaserJock> lots got done and there is lots yet to do! \o/
<ogra_> yeah, heh
<ogra_> and gutsy will rock
* ogra_ hands the mic to RichEd 
<RichEd> Artwork ...
<RichEd> Our volunteer sent me a mail this week ... thanking LaserJock for his help
<RichEd> and a sample 1st effort that you can see here:
<RichEd> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuArtwork/Volunteer
<RichEd> She would like some comments on her first effort.
<ogra> its a great start ...
<LaserJock> oh, that's nifty
<pips1> how do we comment?
<pips1> is she here?
<LaserJock> you can edit the wiki page I imagine
<RichEd> I'm going to try to hook her up with cbx33 for guidance ... she felt a bit bad taking LaserJock's time when he is more of a "coding person"
<RichEd> add comments to the wiki page pips1 ...
<pips1> ok
<ogra> pips1, she's jillc
<RichEd> I hope she will attend one of the next meetings ...
<ogra> (and not here atm)
<LaserJock> RichEd: I don't mind either, but I'm not much of an artist
<RichEd> I like the sample myself ... the quality is certainly decent ... and I think if we put her onto a specific task with a "spec" she would be able to be a help
<LaserJock> we need to make sure it works well as a wallpaper
<RichEd> LaserJock: that's where I think pete will be able to help out with guidance ...
<ogra> yeah needs a bit more abstraction
<LaserJock> ogra: I agree
<RichEd> comments like that would be good for the wiki page, and then I can mail her the link
<ogra> RichEd, well, i dont want her to struggle with procedures, she shall do artwork
<LaserJock> it gets busy when there is a "real" looking desktop
<ogra> for now i'm fine to act as proxy for pics
<RichEd> LaserJock: agreed on the above ... for a default ship wallpaper, "muted" graphics work best to avoid "eye clutter"
<RichEd> but i think that kids would dig the sort of thing she has provided as an optional choice
<ogra> yeah
<LaserJock> I think the key is to get a good number of choices
<LaserJock> not perfection first round
<LaserJock> then she can refine them with feedback
<RichEd> For attempt #1 ... I think a fine effort
<ogra> thats definately a good starter for the kids desktop ...
<RichEd> What default wallpaper will 7.10 ship with ?
<RichEd> ogra ?
<LaserJock> I hate for her to go through all the trouble to get it perfect and then have  use "well, I was really thinking ..."
<ogra> RichEd, abstract, somewhat educational
<ogra> RichEd, apparently everybody loved the edgy wallpaper
<RichEd> do we have a viewable sample ? so that I can show her ?
<ogra> so we should probably try to go that way
<RichEd> of gutsy ?
<RichEd> I'll try to get a page up with all of the defaults we've shipped ... to show her the "abstract" concept (of such a page does not exist)
<RichEd> okay moving on ... to WebSites
<RichEd> pips1: any comments ? news ?
<pips1> well, none, I'm afraid. I've been busy with my day job non-stop
<RichEd> okay :) we understand
<RichEd> and community ?
<RichEd> LaserJock: do you want to mention the fridge story you are putting up ?
<LaserJock> well, check out Fridge
<LaserJock> :-)
<LaserJock> it's an interesting project FOSSCom and Ubuntu Education are doing
<LaserJock> about how formal education might learn from FLOSS
<LaserJock> kinda "hackers turned education research subjects" sound ;-)
<RichEd> that comment is about FLOSSCom ... the project about taking the lessons of Open Source developement collaboration ... and extending into other general education areas
<RichEd> they are hosting a summer university ... and are using Launchpad and the Ubuntu wiki for hosting projects and info
<RichEd> check out the fridge for more ... LaserJock does the story have a link to the ubuntu wiki page ?
<pips1> no, but to launchpad project
<LaserJock> hmm, it does to the list of meeting
<LaserJock> s
<pips1> ah, correct
<LaserJock> but it does to Launchpad and FOSSCom website
<RichEd> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FLOSSCom
<RichEd> ...
<RichEd> And finally on the Planning Topic ... I still need to split the meeting agenda's and mail out to the lists
<RichEd> Just a comment to LaserJock regarding our discussion 2 weeks ago ...
<pips1> I think the links in the announcement work well ... I vaguely remember recommending Andreas NOT to link to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FLOSSCom directly, because the information there is a bit overwhelming
<RichEd> tonight used up a full hour for tech ...
<RichEd> (^ pips1 makes sense)
<RichEd> So I think an hour meeting for edubuntu-devel and an hour for edubuntu-users is not unreasonable
<RichEd> ---
<LaserJock> RichEd: well, we didn't at all go according to the new scheme either ;-)
<LaserJock> but point taken
<RichEd> Any other topics anyone else wants to raise for tonight ?
<RichEd> ogra: any other points / discussions ?
<ogra> not really ...
* RichEd drags out the gong ... and waves the hammer
<RichEd> going once ...
* RichEd looks around at LaserJock , pips1 ??
<LaserJock> nope
<LaserJock> go for it
<RichEd> going twice ...
<RichEd> ! BONG !
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about bong ! - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<RichEd> thanks all
<ogra> thanks :)
<ogra> yay, bed ....
<pips1> LOL about ubuntu
<pips1> LOL about ubotu
<pips1> I meant
<pips1> good night
<RichEd> ubotu does not know want a bong is ... he clearly was not a student ;)
<ogra> night
<RichEd> night all
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-08-16
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 16 Aug 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 20 Aug 22:00 UTC: Forum Council meeting | 21 Aug 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 22 Aug 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 22 Aug 20:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 23 Aug 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<kraut> moin
<bryce> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 16 Aug 20:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 20 Aug 22:00: Forum Council meeting | 21 Aug 15:00: Kernel Team | 22 Aug 12:00: Edubuntu | 22 Aug 20:00: Xubuntu Developers | 23 Aug 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<bryce> @schedule PDT
<bryce> @schedule America/Los_Angeles
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Los_Angeles: 16 Aug 13:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 20 Aug 15:00: Forum Council meeting | 21 Aug 08:00: Kernel Team | 22 Aug 05:00: Edubuntu | 22 Aug 13:00: Xubuntu Developers | 23 Aug 08:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<kraut> @schedule berlin
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 16 Aug 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Aug 00:00: Forum Council meeting | 21 Aug 17:00: Kernel Team | 22 Aug 14:00: Edubuntu | 22 Aug 22:00: Xubuntu Developers | 23 Aug 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<dendrobates> @schedule New York
<ubotu> Schedule for America/New_York: 16 Aug 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 20 Aug 18:00: Forum Council meeting | 21 Aug 11:00: Kernel Team | 22 Aug 08:00: Edubuntu | 22 Aug 16:00: Xubuntu Developers | 23 Aug 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<DarkSun88> Hi all.
<DarkSun88> @schedule rome
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 16 Aug 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Aug 00:00: Forum Council meeting | 21 Aug 17:00: Kernel Team | 22 Aug 14:00: Edubuntu | 22 Aug 22:00: Xubuntu Developers | 23 Aug 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<DarkSun88> See you tonight.
<DarkSun88> By all.
<bryce> morning
<Hobbsee> morning bryce!
<s-x-u> it is afternoon here :-)
<calc> there is a really bad storm headed my way if i fall offline then that would be why
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Ubuntu Development Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 20 Aug 22:00 UTC: Forum Council meeting | 21 Aug 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 22 Aug 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 22 Aug 20:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 23 Aug 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<calc> pong
<Riddell> how's the storm calc?
<calc> doing ok so far
<Riddell> is it like at the start of wizard of oz?
<calc> i think it died down when it finally got here, i'm north of houston about 60km or so
* ArneGoetje yawns
<Riddell> ArneGoetje: aren't you stuck in a storm too?
<ArneGoetje> Riddell: yes... but still OK here...
<iwj> Evening.
<evand> hello
<dendrobates> hey all.
<calc> my wife nearly didn't get home, the doctors office was surrounded a few blocks away by water on all sides
<Keybuk> it occurred to me today that while we have a New Starters section in the agenda, we don't have a Leavers section
* mvo waves
<calc> Keybuk: so they can quietly run away? ;)
<Riddell> Keybuk: it's good to be optimistic
* asac waves
<Mithrandir> you can check out but you can never leave.  (See lamont)
* heno waves
<Riddell> we could have a fabbione tribute agenda item
<keescook> 'allo
<bryce> heya all
<bdmurray> Heyyy!
<amitk_> hello
<mathiaz> hi
<mdz_> howdy all
<tkamppeter> hi
<ogra> Riddell++
<pedro_> hello
<heno> welcome pedro_ :)
<ogra> hey pedro_
<pedro_> heno: thanks you, glad to see you around :-)
<pedro_> hey ogra
* kylem waves
<mdz_> Keybuk: thanks for putting the agenda together
<mdz_> thursdays have become such a nightmare schedule-wise
<mdz_> shall we get started?
<Keybuk> just thursdays?
<mdz_> thursdays especially
<Keybuk> I had to write off Wednesday (getting things done before Thursday) and Friday (getting things done that I didn't do on Thursday) as well
<mdz_> I just got off my going-home-on-the-train conference call, and now onto my during-dinner meeting
<mdz_> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 19:58. The chair is mdz_.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC] , [IDEA] , [ACTION] , [AGREED] , [LINK] , [VOTE] 
<mdz_> [TOPIC]  pedro!
<MootBot> New Topic:  pedro!
<Mithrandir> mdz_: luckily, you only dropped off once and the noise wasn't that bad. :-)
<mdz_> pedro_: welcome!
<pedro_> mdz_: thanks a lot :-)
<mdz_> you probably all know pedro by now
<ogra> he's the guy with his own topic :)
<mdz_> but he is on a mission
<mdz_> to wipe out desktop bugs
<ogra> \o/
* asac hugs pedro_ 
<mvo> welcome pedro_!
<pedro_> thanks mvo! :-)
* pedro_ hugs asac 
<mdz_> onward and upward!
<bryce> it'll be nice no longer having desktop bugs
<mdz_> [TOPIC]  feature freeze status
<MootBot> New Topic:  feature freeze status
<mdz_> or as we like to call it...
<mdz_> ...THE RECKONING
<seb128> bryce: indeed ;)
<pedro_> hehe yeah
<mdz_> so, raise your hand if all of your feature goals are on target
<Riddell> ...
* calc notices the silence ;)
<agoliveira> Sorry guys, I'm late
* mvo coughs
<mdz_> raise them louder!
<asac> i uploaded ubufox 0.4~beta1 today with a cool new plugin finder wizard and an integration to install extensions through gnome-app install :)
<Mithrandir> my own are quite ok, but UME as a whole is late.
<Riddell> mostly mine are, some are blocked on main inclusion reports though and some split out into "to be deferred" specs
<Keybuk> mvo: yours were all done, don't be shy :)
<mathiaz> apparmor is on target
<calc> i expect to have a new openoffice with the hang issue resolved (among lots of other fixes) uploaded in the next few days
<keescook> all of my assigned features are in.  ;)
<iwj> I'm pleased I managed to get round to, and finish (sort of) triggers.  I'm still waiting for the bugs to start rolling in.
<bryce> one is done, one 99% done, and one is still waiting on upstream
<ogra> ltsp is in fine state ... all new and shiny and full of fresh bugs :)
<kylem> the kernel is mostly looking ok.
<iwj> ogra: pedro will be pleased; otherwise he might feel there wasn't enough for him to be doing.
<bryce> (the 99% one is bulletproof-x - I just need to flip it on in gdm now)
<mdz_> this all sounds very good
* mvo uploaded a fix for the 1px border thing on compiz today
<ScottK> Minor in the scheme of things, but GPG and S/MIME by default for Kmail/Kontact is done.
<mdz_> but if everyone has at least one thing not on track, we must have issues to talk through :-)
<Keybuk> mdz: nothing alarming from my team
<mdz_> tell me your troubles
<iwj> mvo: thanks again for fixing up that silly ftbfs, btw.
<ogra> iwj, ltsp is a *server* (in case of pedro and bugs at least :))
<bryce> at some point I would like to talk about xorg 7.3, and whether to do the xserver 1.4 upgrade
<iwj> ogra: *grin*
<ogra> ;)
<Riddell> slow main inclusion report processing
<mvo> iwj: no problem, apt is a bit ... sometimes
<asac> well network-manager is a spec ... but that was a bug spec in the first place ... so it doesn't qualify for todays freeze
<amitk_> I need to kickstart the laptop testing team with help from heno
<mdz_> amitk_: and jono
<amitk_> re-kickstart, even
<amitk_> right
<heno> virtual-machine-on-cd is not going to happen, but windows-installer should
<iwj> I'd like to chat to someone who knows about ld.so, with a view to triggerising ldconfig.
<evand> indeed, all the bits are in place for windows-installer
<heno> amitk_: see email from me this evening
<Riddell> ScottK: that's the sort of fiddly thing we like to see fixed
<Keybuk> iwj: hello :-)
<amitk_> heno: sure
<iwj> Keybuk: Hi :-).  Excellent.  Catch you on irc tomorrow ?
<ScottK> Riddell: Thanks.
<Keybuk> iwj: sure
<mdz_> Riddell: are the main inclusion reviews blocking on pitti?  he's been quite busy
<Keybuk> [ACTION]  iwj to talk to keybuk tomorrow about ldconfig
<Keybuk> oh, bah
<Keybuk> sudo mdz ...
<ogra> heh
<mdz_> [ACTION]  iwj to talk to keybuk tomorrow about ldconfig
<MootBot> ACTION received:  iwj to talk to keybuk tomorrow about ldconfig
<ogra> su would suffice
<mdz_> would have done it sooner if you didn't scroll out from under my mouse...
<Riddell> mdz_: yes, he did promise to do them before his honeymoon so we'll see
* iwj sits on mdz's mouse.  Does that help ?
* ogra wants to get that picture out of his mind now ...
<mdz_> isn't someone else working on MIR apart from pitti?
<mdz_> I thought we expanded that team
<iwj> I do some MIRs occasionally but I've been very head-down the last week or so.
<ogra> iwj, did you stop doing MIRs ?
<mdz_> iwj: with pitti going on holiday, he could use the help now more than ever I think
<iwj> mdz_: Yes.
<iwj> I should really take that over, probably.
<iwj> Looking at the mails about the wiki changes, it's basically been just pitti and if he goes it'll just all stop.
<iwj> So consider me volunteered.
<mdz_> keescook: given that a good chunk of it is security review, you might consider helping out with that in the medium term
<iwj> I might want a second opinion occasionally.  There's, shall we say, a political aspect to it.
<keescook> mdz_: okay, I can have at it.
<iwj> Particularly from a security pov.  So kees, would you mind helping out ?
<iwj> Ah, excellent.
<keescook> iwj: sure :)
<mdz_> keescook: perhaps more after your cloning
<keescook> yes please
<iwj> For now I'd like to encourage anyone to chase me up if you need a MIR done.
<mdz_> heno: who handled milestone testing while you were away?
<Riddell> iwj: kiosktool, obexftp, kvkbd, opensync are the ones I'm blocking on
<iwj> Riddell: I'll email myself that list and take a look tomorrow.
<heno> I asked stgraber to take a more active role in that, but I think pitti and hobsee also did much of it
<ogra> mdz_, we all did, lead by pitti and Hobsse
<ogra> stgraber was very active as well, yes
<mdz_> ogra: are there summary results available?
<Riddell> "hobbsee" (took me a while to remember which letters were doubled)
<ogra> on the iso tracker i think
<mdz_> ah, front page
<Mithrandir> Riddell: usually a lot easier when she's around, since then you can just tab-complete
<heno> https://iso.qa.stgraber.org/isotesting/report/6
<mdz_> I'm not sure how to read "7/7 (12) (1)"
<mdz_> but I can guess what all of the insect icons mean :-)
<heno> 7 of 7 test complete
<heno> 12 tests submitted in total
<mdz_> ?
<heno> more documentation would be useful, yes
<ogra> well
<mdz_> 7 out of 7 out of 12
<ogra> there are headers on the table columns
<mdz_> yes, that one says "test status" :-)
<heno> 7 out of 7, with some tested more than once
<heno> full coverage + some
<ogra> mdz_, you are on the wrong page
<mdz_> ah, 7 test cases, rather than 7 tests?
<heno> right, sorry
<mdz_> ok, so general feature freeze status sounds fairly ominous
<mdz_> I will review in more detail with Keybuk and cjwatson (when he returns)
<mdz_> no agenda items were submitted
<mdz_> presumably everyone has been too busy pushing for feature freeze
* bryce nods
<Keybuk> ominous in a good way or a bad way?
<iwj> Anything that we needed help with needed fixing before the meeting :-).
<mdz_> Keybuk: ominous in a big scary uncertain sort of way
<bryce> ominous can be in a good way?
<Keybuk> mdz_: EWBO
<mdz_> but anyway, this is a good opportunity to get help if you have FF-related issues
<mdz_> since everyone is here
<bryce> mdz_, I'd like to chat about xorg 7.3 FF-related issues
<mdz_> bryce: by all means
<calc> also anyone who has the ipw3945 wifi please not if you have it and if it works
<mdz_> [VOTE]  does your ipw3945 work?
<MootBot> Please vote on:  does your ipw3945 work?.
<bryce> well, we're still waiting on xserver 1.4, but it's scheduled to come out this month, and I'm guessing soon
<calc> I do, doesn't work much with NM
<agoliveira> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from agoliveira. 1 for, 0 against. Count is now 1
<Keybuk> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from Keybuk. 1 for, 1 against. Count is now 0
<kylem> 4965 works fine.
<kylem> :)
<calc> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from calc. 1 for, 2 against. Count is now -1
<bdmurray> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from bdmurray. 2 for, 2 against. Count is now 0
<mdz_> a dead heat
<bryce> mdz_, however it's going to necessitate rebuilding much of the X componentry due to ABI changes
<calc> ok
<mdz_> bryce: how soon is 'soon'?
<Keybuk> agoliveira, bdmurray: what wireless network do you use?
<bryce> mdz_, I don't have an exact date but am estimating within the week
<mvo> 0 (don't use NM)
<bdmurray> wep
<mdz_> bryce: and how deep are the changes?  is this a major feature release compared to what we have?
<calc> my situation is NM doesn't work with open or WPA/WPA2 but ifup works (keybuk mentioned events issue)
<agoliveira> Intel Corporation PRO/Wireless 3945ABG Network, wap
<bryce> mdz_, I think it could be done, but I'm quite concerned about regressions, and lack of time to get them addressed
<mdz_> #endvote
<MootBot> Final result is 2 for, 2 against. Total: 0
<Keybuk> for me, it doesn't work with open but tends to work with WEP/WPA
<bryce> mdz_, yes it's a major release, that adds input hotplugging
<calc> Keybuk: does it work with open if using ifup instead of NM?
<bdmurray> mine worked in the london office too
<mdz_> bryce: what's the main use case for input hotplugging?
<mdz_> [TOPIC]  X.org 7.3
<MootBot> New Topic:  X.org 7.3
<bryce> mdz_, it will allow being able to leave out the keyboard, mouse, wacom tablet, etc. entries in xorg.conf and xorg will figure them out automatically
<bryce> mdz_, however as I understand it, support will need to be added for the drivers to take advantage of that anyway
<mdz_> bryce: handy, but won't resolve much for users
<bryce> right
<calc> Keybuk: bug 128360 is open about nm failing with open (but in my case its even more generally failing)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 128360 in network-manager "[ipw3945]  nm fails to connect to open network" [Undecided,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/128360
<bryce> there are also some pixmap optimizations vis-a-viz cairo which *may* help with compiz performance
<mdz_> bryce: have you raised the question with upstream?  what do they recommend that we do, given our schedule?
<bryce> but I think at this stage we may be more concerned about compiz stability/featurefulness than performance
<heno> oh, that might fix bug 83860 :)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 83860 in gdm "Accessible GDM broken with our wacom setup" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/83860
<Keybuk> calc: yes
<bryce> mdz_, I talked with alex about it, and he said sticking with 1.3 "would be just fine" for our purposes, but of course as an upstream would love if we ran their latest code
<mdz_> bryce: if they stand behind it strongly, and will be there to help us beat the bugs out of it, then it might be feasible
<mdz_> bryce: if it's up to us, then I think perhaps not
<mdz_> bryce: are you aware of any high-visibility bug fixes in it?
<bryce> I know that debian has been working on packaging it but has been having various mesa-related issues
<Mithrandir> it's required for display hotplugging, isn't it?
<mdz_> Mithrandir: I thought that was in 1.3
<bryce> it's a long changelog, but there are a number of bug fixes that would be nice to have.  I've got a handful listed for backporting if we choose not to update
<bryce> display hotplugging was 1.3, and we already have it
<Mithrandir> ok, then I haven't been paying proper attention
<bryce> users are reporting very good results with it too, when deleting their xorg.confs.  :-)
<Mithrandir> bryce: only people using US keyboards, then, I presume?
<mdz_> bryce: I think this is largely your call to make.  if the backporting list is less scary than the update, then we can hang back
* ogra runs without any xorg.conf since gutsy opened 
* mvo just wanted to ask the same question as Mithrandir
<Keybuk> Mithrandir: or using GNOME
<ogra> Mithrandir, you can set it in gnome
<Keybuk> Mithrandir: since if you set in the gnome settings, it will adjust it on login
<bryce> Mithrandir: right; the input hotplugging with xserver 1.4 I think will set up the keyboard better
<Mithrandir> Keybuk: and not having any special characters in your password, then.
<mvo> Keybuk: will that help in gdm?
<ogra> mvo, nope
<Keybuk> heh, that never occurred to me
<Keybuk> but then I auto-login
<mvo> heh :)
<Keybuk> (brief check to see whether elmo saw that)
<ogra> heh
<bryce> mdz_, ok, I would like to avoid the risk and stay with what we have.  I think it would be keen to have the latest code, but I think the time would be better spent squashing bugs and giving users more stability
<mdz_> does anyone have a strong feeling about X server 1.4 that they'd like to share?
<mdz_> one way or the other?
<Mithrandir> it doesn't matter for what drivers we'll have available?
<Mithrandir> s/matter for/affect/
<Keybuk> mdz_: "woo, bleeding edge, woo" ?
<bryce> Mithrandir: not really, although alex says longer term if users wish for newish features, they may miss out
<seb128> better to get the new version earlier than during a lts cycle?
<mdz_> we don't offer new features post-release anyway
<Mithrandir> seb128: that's a good point.
<mdz_> seb128: we can have it from day 0 in gutsy+1
<seb128> mdz_: still, gutsy+1 will not get real user testing for months
<Keybuk> bryce: how do upstream feel about 1.4 ?
<mdz_> bryce: do you feel confident updating it at the start of the next cycle?
<bdmurray> seb128: I am personally surprised at the number of people running Gutsy
<bryce> Keybuk: alex sounded more optimistic about it than I expected, but I haven't done a thorough survey
<bryce> mdz_, yes
<seb128> bdmurray: we are not early in the cycle
<bryce> Keybuk: debian reports a variety of issues relating to mesa have cropped up
<heno> yeah we need to tap into the user base running the latest crack better
<mdz_> seb128 is correct, we don't get the kind of varied testing we need for something like a new X server until later
<heno> seb128: but they start early
<bryce> Keybuk: which I think is why they still have not released it to experimental, which is a worry
<mdz_> bryce: will there be another major release during gutsy+1?  or can we plan to release 8.04 with 1.4 as well?
<bryce> I think it's highly likely there'll be another major release during gutsy+1
<mdz_> if it comes this late, we'd almost certainly have to pass over it
<bryce> yup
<mdz_> bryce: I support staying back if you think that gives us the best chance at quality
<mdz_> that's the most important thing at this point
* bryce nods
<Keybuk> that could mean we ended up with 1.3 in gutsy+1
<bryce> yes, good, that's my feeling as well
<Keybuk> do we want 1.3 that late? and jump to 1.5 in +2 ?
<mdz_> Keybuk: I don't see why it has to mean that
<mdz_> especially if some other distros help stabilize it meanwhile
<Keybuk> errr, yes, sorry, I'm on crack
<mdz_> bryce: I encourage you to get more input from upstream, though.  explain the situation and try to get honest opinions of what's best to help you make the decision
<bryce> ok will do
<mdz_> ok
<mdz_> next topic?
<agoliveira> mdz_: No mootbot? :)
<mdz_> agoliveira: it was a question
<mdz_> calc: I hear we're expecting a late oo.o release as well
<heno> I added an item to the wiki
<calc> mdz_: yes, generally oo.o has released a month before ubuntu
<heno> Tribe 5 testing commitments - [WWW]  https://iso.qa.stgraber.org now has the facility to subscribe testers to individual tests (as we did in the past on the wiki). I'll be asking distro team members and community testers to subscribe from tribe-5 testing onwards so we can track coverage better.
<calc> mdz_: looking back at the old release schedules for oo.o vs ubuntu
<mdz_> [TOPIC]  Tribe 5 testing commitments
<MootBot> New Topic:  Tribe 5 testing commitments
* agoliveira have the feeling that should have kept his feet on the bed today...
<calc> mdz_: rc is due next thursday
<calc> mdz_: final release is scheduled for sept 4
<mdz_> heno: good idea, to track coverage of known testers vs. test cases
<mdz_> calc: bugfix release or feature release?
<calc> mdz_: feature release 2.3.0
<calc> the .1 releases are bugfix releases for oo.o
<heno> right, for the later milestones we'll have to do that to ensure coverage
<heno> and we have to double up coverage
<mdz_> heno: will you go around and see that canonical folks are signed up to ensure coverage of the most important cases?
<doko> compared to the current snapshot, oo.o shouldn't have new features for the next milestone
<doko> I would propose to have packages in a ppa first before uploading to the distro
<heno> mdz_: yes, that was the plan. I'll email the distro list
<mathiaz> heno: stgraber created server.qa.stgraber.org.  I'd like to use it to track hardware testing.
<mathiaz> heno: should this be done on iso.qa instead ?
<mdz_> ok
<calc> doko: ok will do
<mdz_> any other business for the meeting?
<heno> mathiaz: can we take this to email/phone?
<ogra_> yes
<mathiaz> heno: ok.
<Riddell> are we ready for tribe 5 next week?
* ogra_ would like to hear from the kernel team about bug 130330
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 130330 in linux-source-2.6.22 "Please re enable oss audio drivers for use on thin clients" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/130330
<ogra_> it will be a major regression if we dont have them in ltsp ... many embedded clients only have oss drivers
<mdz_> next kernel team meeting is tuesday
<ogra_> so sound will just stop working for them
<Riddell> calc: do you have an openoffice upload pending for tribe 5?
<ogra_> mdz_, oki, i'll attend there
<mdz_> ogra_: and BenC will be back from holiday
<ogra_> yup
<tkamppeter> I would like to hear about bug 35638 from the kernel team.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 35638 in linux-source-2.6.22 "Hl-1050 is not detected properly" [Medium,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/35638
<rtg_> ogra_: send an email to Ben 'cause he had some opinions about it.
<mdz_> Riddell: good question for our release manager to answer when he gets back from getting married ;-)
<Riddell> kylem etc: any linux uploads planned for tribe 5?
<mdz_> I'm told there's a kernel upload planned
<calc> Riddell: still working on it right now, i'll see if i can get it done before the end of the weekend
<Mithrandir> today or tomorrow is the rumour I've heard
<calc> Riddell: the next upload won't have that annoying hang in any case
<Riddell> any last minute major gnome features being added? :)
<rtg_> kylem is in the middle of producing an upload right now.
<Riddell> calc: you're my hero
<ogra_> rtg_, well, if he's at the meeting i'm fine to discuss it there, there is no hurry as long as we have a decision before release
<calc> Riddell: heh :)
<mdz_> kernel uploads in advance of the freeze make for happy release managers
<calc> Riddell: any news about the nspluginviewer getting a fix similarly?
* calc doesn't run kde but hears it has the same issue
<Riddell> calc: nothing :(
<calc> ugh :\
<Riddell> and of course we have plenty of other bugs marked for tribe 5 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/tribe-5
<calc> Riddell: well if the code is cleanly separated then you can check for calls to glib/gdk/gtk and determine if it is initialized beforehand, adding initialization will probably fix it
<mdz_> Riddell: should we have a tribe 5 bug round-up early next week?
<mdz_> Riddell: gather the people working on those bugs?
<Riddell> mdz_: would need to be very early next week
<mdz_> tomorrow?
<mdz_> I think it would be good to review them one-by-one, but there's no time here
<Riddell> can do
<mdz_> [TOPIC]  tribe 5
<MootBot> New Topic:  tribe 5
<bdmurray> tkamppeter: we could talk about that bug a bit if you want
<ogra_> why is tribe5 so early ?
<tkamppeter> bdmurray, would be nice.
<Riddell> ogra_: it's what the schedule says
<ogra_> only two weeks between the two
<mdz_> ogra_: because we need testing
<ogra_> Riddell, right, i just wonder why ...
<mdz_> ok, we're out of time
<mdz_> anything else, follow up on the mailing list
<tkamppeter> bdmurray, should we talk here or better at another place in this IRC?
<Riddell> others were three weeks between them but there's no time for three week gaps before beta
<mdz_> thanks, everyone
<mdz_> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 20:51.
<mdz_> MootBot: your watch is slow
<ogra_> well, i'm missint the one week to fix my tribe bugs :)
<bdmurray> tkamppeter: another place probably
<agoliveira> Bye all
<mvo> bye
<ogra_> since i'm busy with building and testing isos then ...
<kwwii> thanks all
<ogra_> thanks
<ubotrans-it> thanks all
* ArneGoetje is going back to sleep for another 2 hours...
<seb128> 'night
<ubotrans-it> goodnight
<asac> night all
* keescook waves bye
<ArneGoetje> night
<evand> bye
<tkamppeter> bdmurray, I have opened I private chat.
* mathiaz waves
<iwj> Goodnight all.
<heno> 'night
<bdmurray> tkamppeter: have you seen my reply?
<tkamppeter> bdmurray, no reply appeared.
<tkamppeter> bdmurray, will restart my xchat and try again.
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-08-17
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 20 Aug 22:00 UTC: Forum Council meeting | 21 Aug 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 22 Aug 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 22 Aug 20:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 23 Aug 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 27 Aug 15:00 UTC: Screencast Team
<kraut> moin
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-08-19
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-meeting.log
<kraut> moin
<jimmacdonald> Hi everyone.
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-08-12
<amachu> :)
<techno_freak> amachu,
<amachu> techno_freak: hi
 * elkbuntu waits patiently for her pizza
<elkbuntu> it'd better be here before the meeting!
<persia> pizza is always late: it's the fundamental nature of the food.
<amachu> persia: mmm...
<elkbuntu> it's arrived!
<elkbuntu> nomnomnom
<elkbuntu> hrm... they seem to have used albino tomatos :-/
<amachu> :P
<amachu> persia: elkbuntu: lifeless: Hi
<amachu> belutz, zakame, TheMuso:  ?
 * persia rushes off to get food, having lost track of the time: be back in 300 seconds or less
<elkbuntu> theres like another 2 mins!
 * tuxmaniac reports
<amachu> tuxmaniac: hi
<tuxmaniac> amachu: hi
<amachu> We are four, if persia & lifeless can also raise their hands..
<elkbuntu> persia is hunting and will be back post haste
<amachu> elkbuntu: and lifeless?
 * persia is now salting the skin
<elkbuntu> not sure about lifeless
<elkbuntu> he hasnt told us anything
<amachu> tuxmaniac: one more of us to reach quorum
<tuxmaniac> amachu: ok
<amachu> tuxmaniac: now in Chennai?
<tuxmaniac> amachu: yep very much. :-) was expeting you last weekend :-(
<amachu> was down all day, sick
<tuxmaniac> oh ok
<persia> safe: I thought we might have lost someone
<tuxmaniac> mee too :D
<elkbuntu> tasty
<amachu> :-)
<techno_freak> elkbuntu, asked the guys, foss.in would most probably last week of Novemeber
<techno_freak> sorry, if that was OT :)
<amachu> and where are Belutz, zakame and TheMuso?
<elkbuntu> not at all OT, considering this same meeting last week i asked you ;)
<techno_freak> hehe
<elkbuntu> amachu, i've pinged themuso, the others might need pings
<techno_freak> meeting hasn't started yet ;)
<elkbuntu> techno_freak, this is true
<persia> Well, kinda started, although we cannot make decisions with this population
<elkbuntu> persia, what is our quorum number?
<persia> 4
<amachu> four
 * RainCT wonders what meeting this is :P
<elkbuntu> RainCT, asia/oceania memberships
<persia> Asia and Oceania Regional Membership Board
<elkbuntu> aormb
<elkbuntu> that's so teh ugly
<RainCT> ah, have fun then ;P
<persia> As/Oc RMB?
<elkbuntu> techno_freak, i imagine if it's then, i should be checking foss.in daily in anticipation of the CFP?
<elkbuntu> i'd go AOM to be honest. Asia/Oceania Memberships
<techno_freak> elkbuntu, in another 2 or 3 days, will poke you if it's out :)
<elkbuntu> the regional is redundant after the regions have been given ;)
<persia> I guess.  I just like RMB
<persia> (the sequence of characters is nostalgic for me)
<elkbuntu> techno_freak, next year, put an rss feed on the site for people to subscribe to! needs only ever be one update
<elkbuntu> persia, Roadside Mail Box?
<techno_freak> elkbuntu, nice idea, will let the site maintainer know, may be this year itself it might get done :)
<persia> Renminbi
<elkbuntu> techno_freak, considering people visit the site all year long, it's a waste of traffic not to have something
<techno_freak> agreed
<amachu> techno_freak: aren't there feeds for site?
<tuxmaniac> elkbuntu: the site has feeds already
<elkbuntu> tuxmaniac, hidden where?
<techno_freak> amachu, not as of now
<elkbuntu> tuxmaniac, i cannot see them when i just go to http://foss.in
<techno_freak> it asks to login and all :s
<elkbuntu> yes.
<tuxmaniac> http://foss.in/rss
<techno_freak> ah that works, but it is not obvious
<elkbuntu> tuxmaniac, the casual passerby doesnt see that though. that's kind of my point
<amachu> lifeless: ?
<elkbuntu> btw tuxmaniac, are you a jdub wannabe?
<techno_freak> elkbuntu, they are actually fixing the page now, you should have something + something pointing to RSS feed in a couple of hours :)
<tuxmaniac> elkbuntu: can I ask why that question cropped up?
<elkbuntu> tuxmaniac, your hackergotchi
<techno_freak> ahh
<techno_freak> I never realized it till now, so now I got to know where tuxmaniac got the idea from :P
<tuxmaniac> elkbuntu: aah ok. no. I saw Jeff Waughs hackergotchi some 1.5 years back or so and thought I should also get something like that :-) no other reasons
<elkbuntu> the expression pretty much matches. his grin is a bit cheesier though
<elkbuntu> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/7593006/Final_v3_lp.png vs https://launchpadlibrarian.net/8120261/jdub-192.png for those interested
<tuxmaniac> :)
<amachu> :-D
<Treenaks> elkbuntu: ok.. those icons are just a BIT too large
<elkbuntu> Treenaks, eh?
<elkbuntu> whatever, it's launchpad's fault
 * persia didn't even know we had a bluetooth team
<Treenaks> elkbuntu: I clicked the link, I had a screen full of jdub
<elkbuntu> Treenaks, it's only small for me
<techno_freak> +1
<elkbuntu> Treenaks, what resolution are you viewing it at? it's only 192px wide
<elkbuntu> Treenaks, plus, it's only a static picture. it could have been worse and come with sound.
<Treenaks> elkbuntu: eee pc
<elkbuntu> Treenaks, yeah, that'd do it
 * elkbuntu tests on her eee
<elkbuntu> which is off... because the stupid folddown power adapter thing keeps slipping
<elkbuntu> i think i shall invest in some tape
 * tuxmaniac missed his french classes for the meet. and is afraid whether he might have to miss another one 
<persia> tuxmaniac: We need one more person to vote, otherwise you'd be done by now.
<persia> tuxmaniac: Note that if you've a time conflict, despite the fact that we're happy to have you, one of the other meetings might also suit.
<tuxmaniac> persia: no. all other meeting are too late or too early for me.
<tuxmaniac> persia: its OK. I wait
 * tuxmaniac has prepared a proposal speech too :-)
<persia> lifeless: zakame: Belutz: TheMuso: please raise your hand.
<elkbuntu> persia, i suggest that we take his prepared speech, email it to the others for their votes
<elkbuntu> i dont like the idea of sacrificing education for something like this
<elkbuntu> amachu, your thoughts too?
<persia> I'm good for that.
<tuxmaniac> elkbuntu: its OK. I am moving to Swiss in a few days time (french speaking part) so learning french :-)
<tuxmaniac> or may be I should call revising my existing knowledge. Sorry folks for troubling you.
<amachu> elkbuntu: its good. but what if they want to put forth questions?
<persia> amachu: Good point.
<elkbuntu> tuxmaniac, that will be in a different timezone, no?
<elkbuntu> we can ask the questions by email
<elkbuntu> s/we/they/
<tuxmaniac> elkbuntu: yes. and there is quite a lot of days for that. I might get busy with university there too. thats why. I can come in another day too here.
<elkeee> if you'd prefer come another time, then thats fine. i'm just offering ideas
<tuxmaniac> I can wait in for some more time for sure.
<amachu> elkbuntu: i suggest, we take the consensus of other members for such a procedure, when quorum isn't met?
<elkbuntu> i think its worth checking for another time, certainly
<amachu> tuxmaniac: swiss for studies?
<tuxmaniac> amachu: yes.
<amachu> cooool...
<amachu> tuxmaniac: next meeting happens 26 Aug 08, we skip third Tuesday as it clashes with Community Council
<techno_freak> tuxmaniac, when are you leaving?
<amachu> lifeless: raise please...
<elkbuntu> amachu, i dont think this is going to work
<tuxmaniac> OK. we meet then
<tuxmaniac> i am fine with it .
<amachu> elkbuntu: persia: ?
<amachu> tuxmaniac: fine with 26?
<elkbuntu> yup
<persia> What am I being asked?
<tuxmaniac> yes
<amachu> persia: i said //ï»¿elkbuntu: i suggest, we take the consensus of other members for such a procedure, when quorum isn't met?//
<persia> Oh, that.  It seemed self-evident to me.
<elkbuntu> one of us might need to do an email prompt during australian afternoon for next meeting
<elkbuntu> i think these keep slipping from the schedules of certain people
 * persia encourages the current attendee with appropriate solar cues for "afternoon" to take that on.
<amachu> by next meeting we will also decide, what can be done if quorum isn't met, and candidate present
<amachu> tuxmaniac: sorry for today
<tuxmaniac> no issues
<elkbuntu> persia, i'll try, but i'd suggest we set up annoying google calendar alerts instead :Ã
 * techno_freak cheers tuxmaniac in advance of 14 days
<elkbuntu> techno_freak, you can note on his wikipage ;)
<techno_freak> elkbuntu, ya nice idea ;)
 * persia isn't really a fan of google calendar, but would accept that implementation: please use my gmail address if you do choose that.
 * tuxmaniac keeps his fingers crossed for another 14 days. 
<elkbuntu> persia, im not a fan of them either, but they tend to have the desired affect
<amachu> fine then, shall we wind up for the day?
<elkbuntu> yes
<amachu> elkbuntu: my kmail sends reminders for me :-)
<amachu> persia: shall we call it for the day?
 * persia has a variety of effective reminder systems already, without sharing the calendar with a nebulous organisation
<elkbuntu> amachu, i'd be asking the permission of each victi... errr... recipient before subscribing them
<persia> I'm good.  Only topics were the resolution that we need a procedure for when we don't have quorum and next meeting date, right?
<persia> elkbuntu: Oh, if it's opt-out, please don't include me.
<elkbuntu> persia, of course it's opt-out. im not that cruel
<amachu> fine then..
<elkbuntu> bonus points if you quote both the opt-out words from eurotrip. in an appropriate setting of course.
<amachu> tuxmaniac: thanks for participating.. looking forward to have you on 26 back...
<amachu> persia: right
<tuxmaniac> same here. thank you folks. looking forward to see you all + 1
<tuxmaniac> on 26
<persia> elkbuntu: curltural reference targeting failure
<elkbuntu> persia, the movie 'eurotrip'
<amachu> persia: elkbuntu: thanks for joining, we shall take up the issues in mailing list
<amachu> bye
<amachu> :-)
<elkbuntu> cya amachu, thanks for chairing again
<persia> Yes indeed.  Thank you amachu for doing such an excellent job with all the administrative tasks surrounding this board.
<lifeless> meh, sorry guys
<tuxmaniac> :)
<Keybuk> mdz: ping?
<mdz> Keybuk: sabdfl is unavailable at debconf
<mdz> and I have no agenda items
<mdz> do you?
<Keybuk> I have no agenda items either
<mdz> ok, I think we can skip this week then
<Keybuk> other than a note of an outstanding action against me
<mdz> I only just got caught up on minutes
<Keybuk> any items from the floor?
<Keybuk> no, good
<Keybuk> ok let's adjourn until two weeks time
<persia> If I may, I'm curious on the status of discussion on archive reorganisation.
<persia> Has that been formally proposed to the TB yet?
<Keybuk> persia: as far as I understand it, the discussion took place at UDS and reached a satisfactory conclusion
<Keybuk> since members of the TB took part, and were happy, I believe it can be considered approved
<Keybuk> and is planned for the next release
<persia> Keybuk: Oh.  Good.  Has the proposal on the wiki been reviewed, or does it remain draft?
<Keybuk> I don't have a link to hand
<persia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArchiveReorganisation
<Keybuk> it says it's an unapproved draft
<persia> RIght.  I suspect I'll stop asking questions now, and let it be formally presented, as I get the impression that has yet to happen.
<persia> Thanks for the summation.
<owh> @now
<ubottu> Current time in Etc/UTC: August 12 2008, 14:15:51 - Next meeting: Ubuntu Mobile Team in 1 day
<mathiaz> hello !
<sommer> yo
<zul> yo g
<owh> o/
<owh> I made it yay!
<sommer> o//
<soren> o/
<Koon> \o
<mathiaz> all right - let's get started
<mathiaz> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:06. The chair is mathiaz.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<mathiaz> Today's agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<mathiaz> Last week meeting minutes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20080805
<mathiaz> I don't see any actions marked there
<mathiaz> Koon: is there anything special to report on ?
<mathiaz> I think kirkland published most of his blog posts
<Koon> mathiaz: no, nijaba still has to post his hw question, an action from the previous meeting
<Koon> that's about it :)
<mathiaz> Koon: ok - he is not around for this meeting
<mathiaz> let's move on then
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Remove multiuser options and updating init scripts
<MootBot> New Topic:  Remove multiuser options and updating init scripts
<mathiaz> zul: ^ ?
<zul> so yeah pitti had a list of packages that was still using multiuser for fast tear down that ssems to be depreciated in debian no one has started to fix them yet and I just wanted to bring them to peoples attention
<soren> Where's the list?
<zul> its a great way for people to get started in package development
<Koon> zul: someone posted bugs about them, right ?
<zul> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2008-June/000430.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2008-June/000430.html
<zul> Koon: yep james_w I believe
<james_w> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2008-August/025945.html
<james_w> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=multiuser is the list of bugs
<zul> oh hello james_w :)
<james_w> they're pretty easy to fix, and any help will be appreciated
<james_w> hey zul
<mathiaz> ok - are there any detailed instructions on how to do this ?
<zul> in pitti's original email yes, but not for cdbs
<mathiaz> zul: how many of these package use cdbs ?
<zul> vsftpd and net-snmp as I recall
<zul> I would do them myself but I have more pressing things
<james_w> cdbs uses DEB_UPDATE_RCD_PARAMS (I think that's the right variable), which will be "mutliuser" currently, that needs the same substitution
<mathiaz> zul: ok
<james_w> I think there are a couple more, but most are plain debhelper
<mathiaz> james_w: have you written a blog post about it ?
<james_w> mathiaz: no, I haven't.
<mathiaz> james_w: kirkland wrote a blog post about the status action in init script - the response has been very good so far
<james_w> perhaps I will do that then
<mathiaz> james_w: outlining detailed instructions on how to do that is helpfull
<mathiaz> james_w: http://ubuntuserver.wordpress.com/2008/07/24/ubuntu-init-script-status-actions/
<james_w> nice
<mathiaz> james_w: the key point being to list the packages to fix and how-to do it
<mathiaz> james_w: are you willing to write up a blog post about this ?
<james_w> yeah, I think so
<mathiaz> james_w: IIRC you're on the planet now
<james_w> yeah, just last week
<mathiaz> ACTION: james_w to write a blog post about removing multiuser options
<james_w> I need to write up a form letter for forwarding to Debian as well, so that we make sure that we get that bit correct
<mathiaz> [ACTION] james_w to write a blog post about removing multiuser options
<MootBot> ACTION received:  james_w to write a blog post about removing multiuser options
<mathiaz> james_w: great - thanks !
<mathiaz> let's move on
<nealmcb> james_w: thanks for your attention to good relations with debian!
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] New eBox packages
<MootBot> New Topic:  New eBox packages
<foolano> hi
<mathiaz> foolano: ^ ?
<foolano> I've been packaging the latest eBox version for intrepid.
<foolano> I've packaged a few new modules which could be interesting to have in intrepid:
<foolano> ebox-mail (postfix + courier -dovecot support is not ready yet
<foolano> ebox-mailfilter (amavis + clamav + spamassassain)
<foolano> ebox-trafficshaping (to be used when the machine is working as a gateway), ebox-jabber (users in ldap can connect to the jabber server)
<foolano> ebox-webserver
<foolano> The latter is just a simple module to manage a couple of things of apache:
<foolano> enable public_html directories for users stored in ldap and create virtual domains.
<foolano> Right now, modules using ldap are broken beacuse of the new ldap config backend in intrepid.
<foolano> I'll fix this today or tomorrow.I just have to change the way we add schemas and acls to ldap
<foolano> the packages are available in my ppa: http://launchpad.net/~ebox-unstable/+archive
<nealmcb> foolano: what jabber server does that use?
<foolano> jabberd2
<foolano> basically, that's what i wanted to say. the packages are in good shape and I wonderes if someone could upload them
<foolano> s/wonderes/wondered/
<mathiaz> foolano: they're all in your ppa ?
<foolano> mathiaz: yep
<mathiaz> foolano: what is in universe now ? the same version as in hardy ?
<soren> Here's a thought... The minutes from the last TB meeting says that Launchpad supports giving per-package uploads rights to people. Perhaps eBox would be a good test for this as well. The eBox guys could be allowed to upload just that?
<soren> it'd have to be approved by... Er... someone.
<foolano> mathiaz: yep the same version as in hardy
<mathiaz> soren: approved ? like sponsored ?
<soren> No, like..
<soren> Er..
<mathiaz> soren: or just the acl set correctly ?
<soren> Someone has to approve letting foolano upload ebox packages to launchpad.
<soren> Like when the MC approves new MOTUs.
<mathiaz> soren: right - mdz was looking into doing this
<soren> Right. For something in main, right?
<soren> i forget what it was.
<mathiaz> soren: correct - something like that
<soren> foolano: Would you be interested in this, or do you prefer going through a proxy+
<foolano> i think ebox-mail + ebox-mailfilter  can be useful to lower the barries for users who want deploy those services using a GUI...
<mathiaz> foolano: would you be comfortable doing this (uploading directly to intrepid) ?
<soren> ?
<foolano> yep, i would be comofortable doing that
<foolano> cuz otherwise is a pain in the ass for the one who uploads them
<soren> Heh :)
<foolano> right now there are 21 packages
<foolano> :)
<mathiaz> soren: well - I guess we'd have to ask the motu-council about this
 * zul keeps quiet
<nealmcb> where does ebox stand with augeas?
<mathiaz> soren: or the technical-board
<soren> mathiaz: i think that's the correct forum, yes.
<soren> mathiaz: MC, that is.
<nealmcb> oops - I bet still waiting on more augeas support...
<mathiaz> soren: ok - could you take care of this ?
 * foolano says hi to zul :P
<soren> mathiaz: MC gives out MOTU membership. Since these are universe packages, it seems like they should do it.
<soren> foolano: Could you send sort of an application for this to motu-council@lists.ubuntu.com? That would be very helpful.
<soren> foolano: The MC has a meeting tomorrow afternoon, so if you could get it in before then, that would be perfect.
<foolano> alright then
<foolano> i guess i gotta explain this situation, right?
<soren> Fantastic.
<soren> Yes.
<mathiaz> foolano: I'm glad to help you out on your application
<owh> Just as an aside, does a package in universe have a different support length than in main?
<soren> I'm on the MC, by the way, so I can fill in the gaps, if there's doubt.
<soren> owh: Yes.
<foolano> ok thanks, i'll probably nag you a little bit later while im writing it
<soren> owh: 0 days.
<mathiaz> foolano: if you could send me a draft of your application email, I'd be happy to review it and give you feedback
<soren> owh: As opposed to 5 years.
<owh> But isn't eBox the ubuntu-server recommended gui?
<foolano> mathiaz: ok thanks
<soren> owh: Yes.
<owh> As-in, aren't we supposed to support it?
<nealmcb> do we have any sense for how many people are using ebox at this point?
<mathiaz> foolano: we'll see how the MC reacts to it
<soren> owh: It's not guaranteed to be supported. If someone wants to support it, they're welcome and invited to.
<mathiaz> foolano: it may need some time until you've got the right to upload
<owh> soren: But doesn't that leave server administrators wide-open?
<nealmcb> yeah - and giving upstream the ability to easily upload new packages will help with that
<soren> owh: meaning?
<mathiaz> foolano: let's wait a week to see how things are moving
<foolano> mathiaz: the only thing is the FF is close...
<mathiaz> foolano: exactly - FF is in three weeks now
<owh> soren: Well, you deploy a server that is supported for 5 years but not all components are.
<soren> owh: It's the "wide open" part, I don't understand.
<mathiaz> foolano: well - a bit less than three weeks
 * soren grumbles about English punctuation
<zul> umm...can you guys continue that somewhere else?
<owh> soren: Well, as an administrator, I follow the ubuntu-server recommendation to install eBox, but then it isn't supported like the rest of my ubuntu-server is. I'm left wide-open with a server that isn't working.
<owh> zul: Well, it ties into the next agenda point.
<soren> owh: how is it not working?
<mathiaz> foolano: depending on the MC reaction, I'll have a look at sponsoring you're ebox packages
<foolano> mathiaz: ok
<owh> soren: Well, if eBox is not supported and a bug is found then I have a problem.
<foolano> owh: upstream supports it
<mathiaz> [ACTION] foolano to send an email to the MC to get upload rights to the ebox package
<MootBot> ACTION received:  foolano to send an email to the MC to get upload rights to the ebox package
<soren> owh: Well, yes. That doesn't mean that it's not working or wide open or whatever.
<mathiaz> let's move on -
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] ISV's - VMware on Gutsy and Hardy
<MootBot> New Topic:  ISV's - VMware on Gutsy and Hardy
<mathiaz> owh: ?
<owh> That's me.
<owh> This point is not intended as a bug report or as a way to whinge about vmware-server, it's about supporting a production server that relies on an ISV to provide what they committed to...
<soren> owh: universe does not mean unsupportable. You are free to submit patches (like anyone else).
<owh> vmware-server is in the gutsy partner repository. It's supposed to be supported for 12 months, only it isn't, that is, there are no kernel modules for the current gutsy kernel and hasn't been for some time...
<owh> vmware-server was supposed to be released a few days after hardy was released, and as far as I know it still has not - though if someone has other information I'd love to hear that...
<owh> As I see it, the current situation leaves the ubuntu-server team in a place where one hand is working independently from the other and the ubuntu-server product becomes compromised from a reliability and support perspective...
<owh> So, my question is this: If we're working hard to roll out a reliable server platform, how is it possible that an ISV is not required to meet their obligations? Or have I just got the wrong end of the stick?
<owh> This ties in with the eBox support question.
<nealmcb> we have a virtualization solution in main - kvm.  I think at some point we do need a gui admin solution in main
<nealmcb> the sooner the better :)
<kirkland> sorry I'm late mathiaz, the intrepid kernel is panic'ing on me
<mathiaz> owh: I think we've already discussed the vmware issue a couple of months ago
<owh> nealmcb: Sure, if I could ditch vmware I would.
<owh> mathiaz: Yes, on the 23rd of April.
<nealmcb> what are the outages for you at this point of kvm?
<owh> mathiaz: The problem is that no progress was made as far as I could see.
<owh> nealmcb: Huh?
<soren> nealmcb: virt-manager is in main..
<soren> nealmcb: Oh..
<soren> nealmcb: ignore me. I misunderstood.
<owh> nealmcb: Ah, you mean, why can I not ditch it?
<nealmcb> yeah
 * soren guesses hardware support
<owh> nealmcb: For one, I don't have dedicated CPU support, so I need to use qemu and it's verry slooow.
<owh> Just changing hardware is not feasible in the middle of a products life.
<nealmcb> any hope for getting qemu in main?  still need a fix for the gcc version isues?
<nealmcb> how slow is kqemu for servers?
<owh> From playing, not actual measurement, 50% slower.
<owh> At least.
<soren> Oh, it's much more than that.
<owh> soren: Slower or faster?
<soren> It would have to be at least... 85% slower.
<soren> On a good day.
<owh> Hmm, so I was being kind then :)
<nealmcb> owh: it would seem that you need to work directly with vmware if thats what you need.  maybe get them to open source the whole thing :)
<owh> The CPU load is ridiculous.
<soren> nealmcb: kvm includes qemu, so there shouldn't be any need to move qemu to main.
<owh> nealmcb: The issue is not that, the issue is that Canonical has signed VMware up as an ISV, but it seems that no actual progress is being made.
<mathiaz> owh: I think that we came to a similar conclusion last time we talked about that issue - it's up to VMWARE to deal with this
<soren> nealmcb: The reason for keeping qemu around is to keep all the non-x86 emulators it provides, but we have no interest in supporting those.
<nealmcb> soren hmm I though qemu was in universe - can you run qemu on non-virt hardware using just main?
<soren> Quite so. We're not trying to be difficult (I would like nothing more than for this to be fixed), but it's simply out of our hands.
 * nealmcb remembers some gcc version issue with qemu
<mathiaz> owh: I'd get in touch with nijaba  - he is the best point of contact to resolve this issue
<soren> nealmcb: Just install kvm and use that.
<owh> mathiaz: While I understand what you're saying, I don't see a world where vmware-server is used on a workstation.
<soren> nealmcb: It'll fall back to "being qemu" if it doesn't find the hardware support it wants.
<nealmcb> soren: ok - I get it now....
<owh> mathiaz: As in, it's a ubuntu-server product.
<soren> owh: I'm not sure I follow?
<owh> We are the server platform for ubuntu. vmware-server is deployed on our platform.
<owh> Canonical signed a contract to this effect with VMware.
<owh> It's not being maintained.
<owh> Our server product suffers.
<owh> Apart from leaving administrators in the cold.
<soren> Ok. You mentioned workstations, too?
<owh> This is a fundamentally broken thing.
<soren> I think that's what confused me.
<dendrobates> owh: I am not aware of the language of the contract between vmware and canonical, but we are trying to work within their processes to get this fixed.
<owh> soren: Yes, as in, vmware-server won't be used on a workstation.
 * soren tries to make the connection
 * soren fails
<owh> dendrobates: Excellent.
<owh> soren: I mean that the vmware-server product is a product not generally related to ubuntu, it's specific to us.
<dendrobates> owh: they have difficulty with kernel abi changes and we are trying to reduce them to make it easier.
<soren> owh: Ah, I see.
<nealmcb> I think "us" is ubuntu.  vmware stuff is a vmware/canonical issue, not an ubuntu issue
 * sommer agrees with nealmcb 
<owh> nealmcb: Don't you think that that relates directly to us
<nealmcb> I'd like to see it all resolved, but this meeting can't help you, other than to make libvirt/kvm or other open source solutions  better
<owh> Sure, I was trying to find out if there was a way to have this process not break in the future, which is why I started asking about eBox too.
<owh> If we as a team roll out and support a server and the things we rely on have a different support structure, we have a problem.
<mathiaz> owh: ebox is bit different - it's opensource, so it can be fixed by anyone
<nealmcb> ubuntu is free forever.  vmware isn't in that boat.  though perhaps you're asking if ubuntu wants to take over the open source part of vmware - is that what you're getting at, soren?
<owh> nealmcb: That's only the toolbox AFAIK.
<soren> nealmcb: Was that really a question for me?
<owh> dendrobates: Thank you for your clarification.
<nealmcb> soren: I don't understand your point about vmware-server and workstations
<mathiaz> ok - let's move on then
<soren> nealmcb: I had none.
<soren> nealmcb: I think you got me mixed up with someone else..
<mathiaz> The current Roadmp: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Roadmap
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Ubuntu VM builder
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu VM builder
<soren> \o/
<mathiaz> soren: anything ready for wider testing ?
<nealmcb> soren: oops - right....
<soren> I've finally gotten it to build a Xen based image. It's very rough around the edges, but I'm working hard on getting it shaped up.
<owh> And yay to mvo for sandbox testing!
 * mvo blushes
<soren> I'll put out an e-mail when it's ready for actual use. Developers are very welcome to pitch in.
<mathiaz> soren: is there a minimal set of documentation ?
<owh> soren: Don't be shy, give out the goss!
<mathiaz> soren: or some basic instructions somewhere ?
<zul> soren: link again?
<soren> mathiaz: It's "--help" option is quite verbose, actually.
<owh> Should we be using the mailing list for in-progress stuff like what soren is doing, or is that really intended more for support?
<soren> I'd love to see more developmenty sort of stuff on the list.
<owh> Ditto
<soren> I should set an example to that effect.
<mathiaz> as we're approaching FF we'll have more things happening
<mathiaz> anyone is free to post call for testing on ubuntu-server@
<mathiaz> writing a blog post of the ubuntuserver blog is also possible
<mathiaz> kirkland wrote such a post and I published it on the blog
<mathiaz> I can create an contributor account for anyone interested in publishing a post on the ubuntuserver blog
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Migrate openldap configuration to cn=config
<MootBot> New Topic:  Migrate openldap configuration to cn=config
<mathiaz> I uploaded openldap 2.4.11 yesterday with the default config backend using cn=config instead of slapd.conf
<mathiaz> migration from slapd.conf to cn=config is automatically done
<mathiaz> although slapd.conf support is still enabled in slapd, it's no longer supported by the packaging scripts.
<kirkland> I have been *very* impressed by the community response to these posts
<mathiaz> bottom line: if you're not migrating to cn=config and stay with slapd.conf, you're on your own
<kirkland> fwiw, we have gotten some good init script patches, and I received some well written bugs against ecryptfs-utils
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Tomcat6 server stack support
<MootBot> New Topic:  Tomcat6 server stack support
<mathiaz> Koon: ^ ?
<Koon> So I packaged a Tomcat6 server stack, it was uploaded yesterday
<Koon> (doesn't show up in the archives yet, not sure if that's normal)
<Koon> The goal is to have it as a tasksel in the end, but the road is still long
<mathiaz> Koon: it's in the NEW queue - waiting for an archive admin to push it in the archive
<Koon> ok
<Koon> In parallel I'm working to reduce openjdk-6-jre-headless dependencies
<mathiaz> Koon: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+source/tomcat6/6.0.16-1ubuntu1
<Koon> so that it doesn't pull half of a desktop install in your servers just to run tomcat6 ;)
<mathiaz> Koon: are you tracking what is needed to be done ?
<mathiaz> Koon: have you filed bugs about it ?
<Koon> yes, all but one
<mathiaz> Koon: IIUC, it's mainly dependency issues - it shouldn't be to hard to prepare debdiff
<Koon> mathiaz: the last one is a Recommend, but I want to have doko opinion on why he added it in the first place
<mathiaz> Koon: ok - do you have a list of the filed bugs ? Are debdiffs already done for them ?
<mathiaz> @schedule
<ubottu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 14 Aug 12:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 14 Aug 14:00 UTC: Ubuntu Java Team | 21 Aug 12:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 21 Aug 14:00 UTC: Ubuntu Java Team | 22 Aug 12:00 UTC: Ubuntu MOTU | 23 Aug 13:00 UTC: Xubuntu Community
<Koon> yes
<mathiaz> Koon: so you're just waiting for sponsoring ?
<Koon> yes.
<Koon> bug 249178
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 249178 in ecj "libecj-java shouldn't recommend java2-runtime" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/249178
<Koon> bug 256096 (multiple packages)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 256096 in libcommons-dbcp-java "Common Java libraries should depend on a headless runtime" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/256096
<soren> I'd love to see more developmenty sort of stuff on the list.
<soren> Whoops...
<mathiaz> Koon: great - anything else to add on tomcat6 ?
<owh> DeJaVue all over again there soren :)
<Koon> no, please test it :)
<soren> Yeah, that was some pretty lucky cutting and pasting.
<mathiaz> Koon: great - thanks for your work
<Koon> when I come back from vacation I want a full page of bug reports
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Boot Support for Degraded RAID
<MootBot> New Topic:  Boot Support for Degraded RAID
<mathiaz> kirkland: ^ ?
<kirkland> mathiaz: yessir
<kirkland> mathiaz: i'm waiting slangasek to sponsor my latest round of patches
<kirkland> mathiaz: these affect grub-install
<kirkland> mathiaz: i've gotten part of them in to grub-installer (used in the installer)
<kirkland> mathiaz: these patches write GRUB to the MBR of each disk in the RAID
<kirkland> mathiaz: slightly complicated by the automatic detection and calculation of the disk/partition offsets
<mathiaz> kirkland: great - is there anything to test for now ?
<kirkland> mathiaz: i'm hoping that it makes it into Alpha 4
<mathiaz> kirkland: or this is still very much a WIP now ?
<kirkland> mathiaz: no, it's really wrapping up
<kirkland> mathiaz: the last thing I really want to complete is to add a debconf question to the installer
<kirkland> mathiaz: asking the user if they want to default to booting or not booting if in degraded mode
<mathiaz> kirkland: ok - so if it makes it into alpha4, we should defintely document it on the RelaseNotes
<mathiaz> kirkland: so that people can test it
<owh> kirkland: What default are you proposing for that question?
<kirkland> mathiaz: agreed.  i added ecryptfs-utils to the release notes too
<kirkland> owh: the same behavior we have always had... "no"
<owh> kirkland: You mean Not booting?
<sommer> also, if anyone wants to do some reviewing: http://doc.ubuntu.com/~mdke/test/serverguide/C/advanced-installation.html
<owh> kirkland: Uh do you mean, "Not booting if in degraded mode?"
<kirkland> owh: it will drop you to a busy box prompt if you are missing a disk
<mathiaz> sommer: isn't doc.ubuntu.com up-to-date anymore ?
<owh> kirkland: Hmm, I'm sure that people with remote server farms will disagree with that default.
<kirkland> owh: the default is that the initramfs will detect when a disk has gone missing and drop you to a busy box prompt to take the actions you deem necessary
<kirkland> owh: you can override that either a) in a config file in /etc, or b) on the kernel boot line
<sommer> mathiaz: no, there are some changes to the layout and there's some issue with the versions of xml... or something, I'm not sure I read the email that close
<owh> kirkland: But doesn't that defeat the purpose of having RAID at all?
<mathiaz> sommer: right - I remember now
<nealmcb> what priority would the debconf question be?
<kirkland> i suspect owh will be one of many people (myself included) to switch "BOOT_DEGRADED=yes"
<owh> Which is why I asked :)
<kirkland> but this has been the expected default for a very long time, i have been strongly strongly advised not to change that
<owh> kirkland: Aren't we supposed to provide best practice?
<nealmcb> perhaps the text for the question could advise server folks to change to yes
<owh> I'm not in a position to disagree with "strongly strongly advice", but I was just wondering.
<kirkland> the text of the question will be very well crafted, and I'll draft sommer to review the text ;-)
<owh> :)
<kirkland> it will explain both the pros and cons
<kirkland> the cons are very dangerous, booting a server in an unprotected mode
<nealmcb> owh: on a desktop, the best answer is probably "no" - since folks will be there and fix it right away and others don't care
<kirkland> we don't want to surprise users with that
<mathiaz> kirkland: great - thanks for the update - we'll see if it can make it to alpha4
<kirkland> nealmcb: right, i agree with you
<owh> nealmcb: Sure.
<owh> So, is the default different for the server?
<owh> :)
<mathiaz> kirkland: be sure to document it in the Release notes if it's included in alpha4
<nealmcb> but having things default differently for server vs desktop would be more confusing than it would be worth
<kirkland> mathiaz: i will....  just waiting on slangasek to sponsor
<mathiaz> kirkland: great - thanks
<owh> nealmcb: Not sure I agree with that.
<mathiaz> [ACTION] kirkland to document BootDegradedMode in the release notes if it's included in alpha4
<MootBot> ACTION received:  kirkland to document BootDegradedMode in the release notes if it's included in alpha4
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] # Open Discussion.
<MootBot> New Topic:  # Open Discussion.
<mathiaz> something to add ?
<owh> There is a discussion about fsck underway on u-d-d.
<owh> Should we as u-s wade in?
<mathiaz> owh: if you an opinion on the matter you're more than welcome to express it in the thread
<mathiaz> owh: if you *have* and opinion
<owh> I was more asking from a perspective as the team.
<owh> I mean, aren't we the collective of server people here?
<owh> At what point do we act as a team to help further the server platform?
<mathiaz> owh: true - but we're also part of the developer community - we shouldn't discuss these matters in our own corner and then express it in the thread
<mathiaz> owh: if you have something to add to the discussion just do it
<owh> You don't think that there is value in discussing it here?
<sommer> owh: I think the discussion is going to be the same as the main thread
<mathiaz> owh: if you have an opinion about how fsck should be handled in the server use case, express it in the thread - that's the best place to do so
<owh> sommer: That's a fair point.
<owh> That's my only Open Discussion item :)
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time
<mathiaz> I won't be available next week to run the meeting, neither Koon
<mathiaz> anyone interested to step up ?
 * owh would volunteer, but the likelyhood is that I'll be fast asleep.
<owh> And if that's an incentive for someone else to step up, all the better :)
<mathiaz> kirkland: are you up to the task ?
<kirkland> mathiaz: I will be in London next week...  perhaps another time, when I know my surroundings?
<nealmcb> If you need someone, I can do it.
<mathiaz> kirkland: ok - nealmcb just voluntered :)
 * Koon cheers
<mathiaz> nealmcb: thanks for your proposal
<kirkland> mathiaz: thanks, keep me on the short list though, i'm happy to help
<mathiaz> so same time, same place, next week ?
<owh> Can we make it two hours earlier?
<owh> Or is that too much to ask?
<owh> owh == 00:29:46
<owh> It's cool if not.
<mathiaz> owh: that would be a bit to early for the people on the west coast
<mathiaz> owh: unfortunately, we're all in different timezone
<owh> mathiaz: West Coast of where?
<mathiaz> owh: north america
<owh> Isn't that like noon?
<sommer> owh: 6:00am
<mathiaz> owh: nop - it's 9:31 AM on the west coast
<zul> that would be east coast
<owh> Ah.
<owh> Fair enough.
<sommer> is there anyone on the west coast, attending?
<mathiaz> all right then - same place, same time, next week
<mathiaz> your host will be nealmcb !
<mathiaz> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:37.
 * sommer was thinking nealmcb is the farthest left
<nealmcb> I'm mountain time - not a big deal for me to go an hour earlier
<owh> sommer: I'm on the west coast of Australia :)
<sommer> thanks mathiaz
<sommer> owh: heh, that's pretty far left
<owh> thanks mathiaz
<owh> sommer: With lack of sleep, that's even funny :)
<sommer> ;-)
 * nealmcb will finally be back from travel/vacation tomorrow :)
<owh> I could do 5am, 11pm doesn't work so well :)
<sommer> later all
 * sommer goes to lunch
 * owh heads for bed.
<nizarus> @schedule tunis
<ubottu> Schedule for Africa/Tunis: 14 Aug 14:00 CEST: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 14 Aug 16:00 CEST: Ubuntu Java Team | 21 Aug 14:00 CEST: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 21 Aug 16:00 CEST: Ubuntu Java Team | 22 Aug 14:00 CEST: Ubuntu MOTU | 23 Aug 15:00 CEST: Xubuntu Community
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-08-13
<sbeattie> @schedule Vancouver
<ubottu> Schedule for America/Vancouver: 14 Aug 05:00 PDT: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 14 Aug 07:00 PDT: Ubuntu Java Team | 21 Aug 05:00 PDT: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 21 Aug 07:00 PDT: Ubuntu Java Team | 22 Aug 05:00 PDT: Ubuntu MOTU | 23 Aug 06:00 PDT: Xubuntu Community
<ara> hey bdmurray
<bdmurray> hi ara
<davmor2> hello
<pedro_> hello
<ara> hi all
<LaserJock> anybody around for QA Team meeting?
<bdmurray> me ;)
<ara> +1
<LaserJock> no heno it seems, who's chairing?
<intellectronica> hi
<Mez> OHAI!
<LaserJock> hola Mez
<Mez> hola ;)
<Mez> comos estas?
<ara> the agenda seems empty. does anyone have any particular issues they want to rise?
<LaserJock> Mez: bueno bueno
<LaserJock> ara: I have one
<LaserJock> I'm not sure if stgraber is around or not
<LaserJock> but I was thinking it'd be cool to have a Global Testing Jam for Intrepid
<LaserJock> I was thinking that it could be done for Beta
<bdmurray> That seems a bit late to me
<LaserJock> well, there is that
<LaserJock> but I'm not sure if it'd work very well to do it on an Alpha
<LaserJock> that's definitely a discussion point
<LaserJock> my reasoning (which may be deeply flawed ;-) ) was that Beta is the  best chance of getting people to actually download the .isos
<LaserJock> bdmurray: would Alpha 6 be better do you think?
<bdmurray> LaserJock: or Alpha 5 something well before the kernel freeze as we'll benefit most from testing a wide variety of hardware
<LaserJock> alpha 6 is 1 month before kernel freeze
<ara_> #join #ubuntu-testing
<LaserJock> alpha 5 would give use 3 weeks to get it set up
<bdmurray> ogasawara: when do you think would be best?
<LaserJock> we could do 2 I suppose, one for alpha 5 and at beta
<ogasawara> bdmurray: the earlier before kernel freeze the better
<LaserJock> that would be about 1 month inbetween if we did that
<LaserJock> but in general, does the idea sound good?
<LaserJock> seems like the Bug Jam was pretty successful and we need to get more people involved in the idea of pre-release testing
<bdmurray> I think having more hardware tested via testing jam sounds reasonable
<ogasawara> +1
<LaserJock> agreed, that does seem to be a pain point
<LaserJock> a lot of testing is being done via VMs
<LaserJock> it'd be nice to see a spread of real hardware
<LaserJock> anybody want to lead the charge on it? :-)
<LaserJock> I talked to stgraber a bit about the idea a week or so ago and he liked it but I'm not sure if he has time to set it all up
<LaserJock> I guess the main tasks will be 1) getting in touch with LoCos to get it set up 2) making sure there's enough good documentation on testing and what to do once you find a bug
<tuxmaniac> I am not sure whether I can speak in this meeting. But dont you think most people will not be interested in moving to Intrepid until release on their production machines? And not all will have the liberty of having testing machines. Sorry for interupting if it is not to be done
<bdmurray> tuxmaniac: A lot of testing can be done just using a Live CD
<LaserJock> tuxmaniac: np, but for sure yes
<LaserJock> we're not trying to get people to run Intrepid on their production machines
<LaserJock> but my hope was that with a Global Testing Jam people could bring spare machines and have a day of testing fun
<tuxmaniac> bdmurray: aah ok. that is very very much possible
<tuxmaniac> LaserJock: ok
<LaserJock> some might want to jump in on Intrepid (that's one reason I like Beta)
<LaserJock> so it's almost like a Install Fest, but more focused on finding bugs :-)
<bdmurray> I think we have alot more people running Intrepid than we expect
<LaserJock> bdmurray: do we have any numbers on that? it'd be interesting to get some even rough numbers
<bdmurray> LaserJock: not that I'm immediately aware of but I could query the database for unique users reporting bugs with Intrepid in the description
<LaserJock> we certainly don't have as much as the stable/unstable case in Debian, but perhaps it's more than one would think
<tuxmaniac> adding a point. I think LoCos can give some info in that too. Collect locally info on who all are running intrepid and provide that on a wiki page or to some contact?
<pedro_> Ara is having some connection issues, she'll be back soon
<davmor2> bdmurray: I think a lot of people might of stayed with hardy especially if they need a machine that works
<LaserJock> davmor2: although I've seen a few reports of people jumping to Intrepid because of Hardy
<LaserJock> but that's probably not a very significant percentage
<bdmurray> Anyway, I think we are moving a bit off topic here.  It sounds like a testing jam would be a good idea
<LaserJock> in any case, we clearly have a lack of .iso testing
<LaserJock> ok, I'll start a thread on ubuntu-qa on it then?
<bdmurray> Sounds good, I'd like to hear on the community team went about contacting locos
<LaserJock> How's the status of the Intrepid specs?
 * LaserJock waits forever for the wiki page to show up
 * stgraber waves
<LaserJock> stgraber!
<LaserJock> could we just run down the Roadmap and see where everybody is at?
<LaserJock> bdmurray: useful-bug-metrics?
<bdmurray> LaserJock: that one still needs some work
<LaserJock> bdmurray: just in implementation, the design is finalized?
<bdmurray> LaserJock: right, and Launcpad is also missing some data for very old bugs
<LaserJock> ah
<LaserJock> I'm pretty excited about that spec, that data will be quite useful I think
<bdmurray> Absolutely
<LaserJock> ogasawara: how is package-status-pages coming? seems like a lot has been implemented
<bdmurray> ogasawara: The kernel bug migration is finished right?
<ogasawara> LaserJock: we've done a lot with the package-status-pages.  stgraber was awesome getting it set up on the staging qa.ubuntu.com site.  now I just need to find time to generate additional xml files for additional packages and knocking out some of the feature requests
<ogasawara> bdmurray: yes, kernel bug migration was completed as of Monday
<LaserJock> ogasawara: awesome
<stgraber> ogasawara: just tell me when you are ready to have pkgstatus put on the production website and I'll work on a qawebsite update including it
<ogasawara> stgraber: sweet.  Yah I'd like to test everything works when I create additional xml files etc first
<LaserJock> cgregan: how's mobile-automated-tests going?
<cgregan> ï»¿LaserJock: Slowly.....
<cgregan> I'm one tester for 6-7 individual projects
<cgregan> Not a lot of time for other things...unfortunately
<LaserJock> cgregan: ok, so what can we do to help?
<LaserJock> are there any "bitesize" tasks that'd free you up for other things?
<cgregan> ï»¿LaserJock: If someone could take a look at the case Ara has produced and see what is relevant to UME. That would be great!
<LaserJock> cgregan: could you just send a quick email on that to ubuntu-qa?
<cgregan> ï»¿LaserJock: Sure
<LaserJock> great
<LaserJock> cgregan: and any other tasks that somebody who's not deeply involved in your work could help out with ;-)
<cgregan> There will also be some work for Ubuntu Netbook Remis soon
<cgregan> Remix
<LaserJock> stgraber: how goes the qa-website spec?
<persia> That may be harder to coordinate directly.
<cgregan> I'm porting some cases over to a new area now
<stgraber> LaserJock: I need to recontact the Launchpad/Canonical sysadmins guys to have a copy of our website running with Drupal+OpenID enabled
<LaserJock> sbeattie: around?
<stgraber> ideally we'd like to do that after the upgrade to Hardy I requested last week
<sbeattie> LaserJock: yep
<cgregan> ï»¿LaserJock: I can also send an email to QA email when I have something worth looking at
<LaserJock> sbeattie: what is needed to finish off to fix-validation-tracking ?
<LaserJock> cgregan: sounds great
<LaserJock> So I put the specs on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/RoadMap along with a list of Intrepid Tasks
<LaserJock> the Tasks are to list stuff that either hasn't been spec'd yet or that doesn't really need a formal spec, but that we still want to do and is worth some priority
<LaserJock> I added a few but I'd like to have people add to it things they plan on doing within QA for Intrepid
<sbeattie> LaserJock: not a whole lot, I need to make the page I generate report against universe, and generally sync up more with pitti's sru script.
<LaserJock> sbeattie: ok, I think I'll have some time to help with that a bit too
<LaserJock> I need to get back into sru-tools
<sbeattie> I also need to go back and pull out historical data/testcases
<sbeattie> LaserJock: that'd be great.
<LaserJock> sbeattie: perhaps we should talk to ubuntuwire.com about hosting all that?
<sbeattie> if you want, I'm agnostic as to where it gets hosted.
<LaserJock> right now I have a branch for qa.ubuntuwire.com/sru
<LaserJock> k, we can talk about that later
<LaserJock> alright, any more issues?
<LaserJock> going once ...
<LaserJock> twice ...
<LaserJock> OK, I guess we'll call that the end of the meeting
 * LaserJock rings the gong
<LaserJock> thanks everybody for showing up!
 * bryce grabs a seat early
 * ArneGoetje rubs his eyes
<calc> hi
 * asac waves
<james_w> hey all
<liw> hello
 * ogra waves
<james_w> has someone been delegated responsibility today?
<asac> james_w: is cjwatson on holiday?
<bryce> not me
<james_w> asac: yup
<james_w> and evan and slangasek is at debconf I think
<calc> hmm maybe no meeting for today then?
<calc> it wasn't delegated to me either
<asac> maybe a quick look at alpha-4 ;)
<bryce> or we could just review blueprint status, and any milestone bugs?
<james_w> sounds like a good idea
<james_w> were there any action points from last week?
<bryce> no action items
<calc> so we start with ArneGoetje?
<bryce> sure
<bryce> hit it Arne
<james_w> hey TheMuso
<TheMuso> sorry I'm a bit late
<ArneGoetje> hey
<ArneGoetje> green light from my side, no show stoppers so far
<james_w> ArneGoetje: any milestoned bugs for you?
<ArneGoetje> nope
<asac> ArneGoetje: do you have any spec assigned?
<asac> is that on track?
<ArneGoetje> just the language-selector thing, and yes, it is on track
<asac> when will this land?
<ArneGoetje> probably next week
<asac> ok
<bryce> okay cool, asac you're next alphabetically
<asac> aug 28th is feature freeze ;)
<asac> NM 0.7 entered the archive
<asac> but we will probably see plenty of new snapshots before release
<james_w> great!
<james_w> (to the first point at least :)
<asac> not sure when i will stop bumping versions, but upstream is still quite active with bugs getting fixed on a daily base
<bryce> I noticed it's changed a bit when I updated by laptop yesterday.  Had to re-reboot but then it came up and has been working great since.
<asac> bryce: the new approach is to require users to reboot
 * slangasek waves in
<ArneGoetje> asac: do you know if NM 0.7 includes code for 3G USB devices to switch from USB-Storage to Modem?
<liw> asac, reboot? under what circumstance?
<asac> liw: to apply upgrade
<slangasek> (completely by accident, I can't guarantee that I'm here for the meeting :)
<asac> we dont restart NetworkManager on upgrade
<asac> slangasek: hi ;)
<james_w> hey slangasek, how's debconf?
<liw> asac, hrmph, that seems... non-unixy, but very well
<slangasek> going pretty well so far - I'm on my way back to the US at the moment, doko, kees, and jorge are representin' for a few more days
<liw> asac, (nothing you could do about it anyway, I guess :)
<bryce> asac, yeah I remember that discussed last week, so I rebooted on first sign of wireless trouble, and then it worked fine.
<slangasek> (today's the daytrip, so they're all out eating cow for the most part)
<liw> slangasek, you had a short debconf, eh?
<slangasek> yep
<asac> another thing that will happen after alpa-4 is  nspluginwrapper everywhere
<asac> e.g. not only on 64bit
<bryce> slangasek: better than crow at least
<asac> the idea is to not crash firefox when flash goes down
<slangasek> *much* better. :)
 * calc thinks better idea is to get rid of adobe flash and replace it with a fully implemented foss version :)
<liw> asac, that sounds awesome
<asac> flash experience spec has other eelements:
<bryce> calc, please send a patch
<calc> flash is so buggy even on windows :(
<asac> 1. better description in plugin finder wizard: on track (code exists in bzr)
<asac> 2. allow users to easily switch to other plugins that serve the same content-type:
<asac>   we are working hard on that in mozillateam, but its not trivial
<asac>   i still hope that we will get something for final intrepid
<bryce> asac: anything else?  guess I'm next up
<asac> the other specs have not much progress; the safe-upgrade code will land in next ubufox upgrade; users will be notified in firefox when they need to restart and are offered a button to actually do the restart
<asac> hopefully this will fix the whole class of wierd upgrade issues users experience
<asac> bryce: go ahead ;)
<bryce> xorg-input-hotplug is the only major FF-critical blueprint, and I've been focusing on it this past week
<bryce> the changes have all landed, and work more or less aside from various bugs which we're tracking
<bryce> so the blueprint is down to just testing / documentation / bug fixing now
<bryce> not a blueprint, but I also took a break from that the last couple days to look into GEM, which has just hit upstream's git trees
<bryce> BenC is looking at the kernel side.  I've produced git snapshots of mesa, libdrm, and -intel for him to play with.
<bryce> I found them to be quite buggy, but patches exist for the issues I saw, so it's possible we'll be able to pull that in by FF.  We'll see
<liw> what is GEM?
<bryce> it's a memory manager for X graphics
<bryce> it's a fundamental requirement for fixing several major mis-features in X right now
<calc> it replaces the old TTM (iirc)
<bryce> righto
<bryce> well, TTM never actually made it in; Fedora shipped it but no one liked it much
<bryce> anyway, another blueprint-ish thing, is I've added apport support for most all X packages, at mdz's suggestion
<bryce> I've not tested it much, but this should make it easier to report X bugs (hopefully not TOO easy)
<bryce> afaik no alpha-4 bugs.
<bryce> doko, you're up next, if you're here?
<calc> he's not here apparenty
<calc> i think i am next? :)
<bryce> calc oops skipped you
<asac> go
<bryce> go for it
<calc> so OOo 3.0rc1 is delayed to Aug 25
<calc> which pushed back my A4 bugs to A5
<asac> calc: packaging pre-snapshot doesnt make sense?
<calc> ooo-langpacks is coming along ok, and i don't think it is really a FF issue
<calc> asac: its already in the openoffice-pkgs ppa
<calc> asac: 3.0 beta2
<asac> calc: ok. what is intrepid right now? and what is in ppa?
<calc> intrepid currently has 2.4.1, if OOo seems to be doing ok wrt 3.0rc1 not getting pushed back any more we will go with 3.0 in intrepid and upload on ~ Aug 25
<asac> ok. so its not yet clear that we will go for 3.0?
<calc> if it is pushed back again i will have to consult with colin, etc to see if it is wise to hope for 3.0 final coming out in time ;)
<asac> then keeping 3.0 beta2 out of archive makes sense. thanks
<calc> for example the delay between 2.4.0 rc1 and final was 6 weeks
<calc> so if rc1 doesn't actually make Aug 25 then yea we might not put 3.0 in at all due to risking the release with just an RC, that might be ok but we haven't discussed it yet
<asac> calc: how many testers are using your PPA?
<calc> asac: not certain, is there a way to find this out? :)
<asac> we... i mean: do you get good feedback?
<calc> i haven't gotten any feedback actually
<calc> perhaps i should promote usage of it more :)
<asac> calc: ok. have you tried to ask on forums for testers?
<calc> not yet, i think i will do that, should help get a lot of testers that way
<asac> the quality of feedback can vary a lot, but usually there a lots of quite vocal testers available that want to test the latest-crack ;)
<asac> ok cool.
<asac> who is next? liw?
<bryce> anything else calc?  else james_w is up
<asac> ah ;)
<james_w> I've been away since the last meeting, so I haven't made any progress
<james_w> however, I was very happy with the feedback I got last time, so I think I can move forward.
<james_w> I should be ok for feature freeze
<james_w> I haven't got any milestoned bugs.
<james_w> I haven't had a chance to look at pyrex+fontconfig either
<liw> james_w, anything else?
<james_w> nope, I don't think so
<liw> then it's me, yes?
<james_w> I think so
<liw> CleanupCruft: progressing, cli is done, gui needs to be made, plugins need to be written, needs to be uploaded
<asac> liw: ack ;)
<liw> GetRidOfPythonCentralAndSupport: lagging, needs discussing with doko, and probably Debian Python people, but I first need to finish the document explaining the issues
<liw> GobbyServerPersistentState: my patch works, upstream made their own (independently from me), I'll review that and take it from there
<liw> the rest: low priority or postponed until after feature freeze
<liw> end of list; any questions? :)
<asac> liw: is it something we can test?
<asac> (cleanup)
<liw> asac, I have packages in my PPA, which I had a couple of people test and give me feedback on the usability of the command line interface
<asac> liw: did upstream know that we were working on that too?
<liw> gobby (sobby) upstream didn't know we were working on it, too
<asac> liw: how much risk to break my system during cleanup?
<liw> asac, at the moment, it removes packages, and the likelyhood of removing the wrong package is way bigger than 0, but you have to tell it which packages to remove
<liw> so on the order of "apt-get remove" or "apt-get autoremove"
<asac> liw: ok. so its interactive?
<liw> you say "system-cleaner find" to find the packages, and "system-cleaner cleanup foo bar" to remove specific packages, or "system-cleaner cleanup --all" to remove everything; you can also mark particular packages as ignored (won't be removed)
<asac> ok. is there a wiki page you want to give me while doing that ... or is manpage enough?
<liw> the manpage is supposed to be enough
<asac> ok. thanks. ill try tomorrow evening i hope
<liw> cool, thanks
<bryce> liw: anything else?  Otherwise Luke's up
<liw> I'm done
<bryce> TheMuso: take it away
<TheMuso> Ok, since the dmraid spec is highest priority, I'm giving that my full attention. I won't be able to finish the accessibility review spec for intrepid, except for getting ubiquity more accessible/more reliably bringing up accessibility tools. This is more of a bug than a feature, so it will be addressed hopefully before feature freeze.
<bryce> (slangasek: iirc you have no blueprints, and you're debconffing anyway so we'll skip you, unless you want to toss in any happy release manager comments)
<slangasek> no milestoned specs
<TheMuso> As for dmraid, I've spent a lot of time in the past few days toying with telling libparted some more about dmraid devices. Once this is done, I'll be working on making the D-I UI sane to use, and getting dmraid arrays brought up by udev.
<TheMuso> Not all of this spec will be done for intrepid however, as dmraid dosn't expose enough useful information to be linked against vol_id for example to probe a single device to see if it is a RAID disk for a dmraid array.
<TheMuso> So I'll  have to talk to upstream about getting such info exposed.
<slangasek> on the release management side, there seems to be a big problem with the desktop CDs again, /etc/fstab ends up not being populated; an unfortunate bit of timing since cjwatson and evand are on vacation, and I'm (possibly) next in line and am only briefly not on a plane :/
<james_w> slangasek: I think Mario had some insight in to that
<slangasek> ah; is he around?
<TheMuso> A few big changes for dmraid will land in both libparted and devmapper once the alpha is out, and other bits will be in the archive early next week, to enable dmraid event monitoring.,
<TheMuso> So overall for functionality, dmraid is on track for intrepid.
<james_w> superm1> pitti, i think i've gvot an idea of a quick hack that might get around it
<james_w> <superm1> pitti, not necessarily the way that evan and colin will want to put in the end, but that should suffice for a4 to get out the door
<james_w> slangasek: you could grab him in -devel if you want to speak to him
<slangasek> right, just reviewed; looks ok to me for the nonce
<bryce> TheMuso: cool.  Anything else?  How's audio?
<TheMuso> bryce: Ah yes. I'm waiting on the kernel guys for alsa 1.0.17 in the kernel, then I can do userspace. Not sure if we will go pulse 0.9.11, but I'd like to, depending on how much time I can get for people to test from a PPA.
<TheMuso> Doing that stuff is only a day's work max to get all needed patches from git trees, etc.
<bryce> TheMuso: cool thanks, anything else?
<TheMuso> Not from me.
<bryce> slangasek: was just talking to superm1 on #ubuntu-x so he's around
<bryce> slangasek: any other RM words?  Else I think we're done
<slangasek> nopers
<cody-somerville> :]
<asac> ogra: are you in our team or not?
<asac> :)
<liw> slangasek, have a good flight back home
<bryce> asac: I didn't see him comment earlier, I assume he's still busy with health stuff
<asac> bryce: he waved
<asac> ;)
<bryce> oh!  sorry, missed that
<slangasek> liw: I'll try, despite Texas's involvement in the process :-)
<asac> 23:59  * ogra waves
<ogra> well, i ave one open spec
<ogra> *have
<ogra> which i can close now i guess, i just uploaded the last changes to initramfs-tools and casper
<ogra> so the next liveCDs should use 25% copncache virtual ram, please test if teh liveCD runs with 256M setups
<ogra> *compcache
<bryce> ogra: any milestoned bugs?
<ogra> (does anyone know where exactly the current casper branch is located btw ? i seem to only be able to find broken branches on LP)
<TheMuso> ogra: Its where it has always been, but its badly broken.
<james_w> ogra: you mean broken as in bzr crashing?
<ogra> bryce, i got back this evening from hospital, still about 300 bugmails to weed through :)
<TheMuso> james_w: Broken as it broken when an upgrade was attempted.
<ogra> bryce, but i'm not actually aware of any
<TheMuso> james_w: If you try to pull it, it says 0 revisions.
<ogra> so they must have shown up last week while i was away if there are any
<TheMuso> and nothing gets pulled.
<bryce> ogra: cool.  yeah sorry to hear about being stuck at the hospital.  I know how hospital days last 3 times longer than normal days.  :-/
<james_w> yeah, I think this is a known problem, it looks like there was a bug in the converter from baz.
<ogra> bryce, well, i wasnt exactly ill while being there so it would have been a great opportunity to do some work while being bored
<bryce> we should have diverted kees there to hack into the phone system for you ;-)
<ogra> james_w, well, for one branch i get 0 revisions, for the other one i get acrual errors
<ogra> bryce, haha
<bryce> okay, does anyone have anything else?  otherwise let's wrap it up.  :-)
<asac> ust one reminder that folks that didnt like NM in the past maybe should give 0.7 a try
<asac> and report features that are still missing to cover their use cases
<asac> there are still rough edges in the system config part (which allows you to connect without logging in), but in general most features should be there
<asac> VPN stuff will enter after alpha-4 ... if you are waiting for that
<asac> and if you have a 3G capable phone ... please test to use that through USB (bluetooth wont be possible for 0.7 most likely)
<james_w> asac: does it run a real daemon, or is it just dbus at gdm?
<ArneGoetje> asac: do you know if NM 0.7 includes code for 3G USB devices to switch from USB-Storage to Modem?
<asac> if your phone isnt detected its usually just hal-info tweakage
<asac> ArneGoetje: you sure that you have to switch it?
<asac> ArneGoetje: maybe its just that the modem is not detected, so it appears like its only storage
<ArneGoetje> asac: yes, otherwise only usb-storage will load
<asac> ArneGoetje: please open a bug for your device, and add it to the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NetworkManager/Hardware/3G page
<ArneGoetje> asac: see http://www.draisberghof.de/usb_modeswitch/
<asac> ArneGoetje: attach lshal output and full syslog to get things started
<asac> attach that link in the bug as well ;)
<ArneGoetje> asac: ok
<asac> (and add '0.7' in bug summary please)
<asac> ArneGoetje: your device sounds strange. do you have other devices (3g phone) which you could use to test your provider?
<ArneGoetje> asac: 3G phone
<liw> are we done with the meeting?
<liw> (time's up)
<bryce> liw, I think so
<ArneGoetje> asac: the usb_modeswitch is necessary for a whole bunch of devices, not only mine
<asac> liw: good night ;)
<calc> goodnight
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-08-14
<bryce> maybe NM talk can continue on, but we can call the official meeting done :-)
<bryce> thanks
<ogra> night all
<asac> ArneGoetje: ok. open a bug then for sure and add to wiki
<liw> guten Nacht, everyone
<james_w> thanks all
<asac> ArneGoetje: ill come back to you
<ArneGoetje> asac: ok
<asac> liw: its: "Gute Nacht"
<asac> ;)
<asac> not Guten
<liw> asac, only in the real world
<asac> oh right
<liw> in _my_ world it's "guten Nacht und Wienerschnitzel mit Bananenkartoffeln"
<asac> Bananenkartoffeln :)
<ogra> yummy
<asac> on top of wienerschnitzel ;)
<asac> "dann mal gute nacht ;)"
<asac> thanks all
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Ubuntu Mobile Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 14 Aug 14:00 UTC: Ubuntu Java Team | 21 Aug 12:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 21 Aug 14:00 UTC: Ubuntu Java Team | 22 Aug 12:00 UTC: Ubuntu MOTU | 23 Aug 13:00 UTC: Xubuntu Community
 * ogra waves
 * yannick waves
<davidm> good day ogra I'm glad you are back
<davidm> #startmeeting
 * ogra too :)
<MootBot> Meeting started at 07:04. The chair is davidm.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<davidm> Mootbot's time sense is off
<lool> yannick: Perhaps add an entry in the agenda on the wiki page if you like to discuss ekiga/lpia
<davidm> We have one item from last week
<yannick> for the next meeting?
<lool> yannick: For this one is ok
<yannick> ok
<davidm> lool was to investigation of xulrunner, langpacks and linux-lpia bits
<lool> Ah I didn't investigate linux-lpia bits
<davidm> OK, I'll carry it forward
<lool> Concerning langpacks, the point was to support midbrowser in intrepid
<lool> It seems this is quite easy to enable, but it requires poking Jeroen and a prerequirement is for translations to be enabled in intrepid
<lool> Unfortunately, despite already being at alpha 4, translations aren't enabled in intrepid yet
<lool> So i'll pole jeroen to get an ETA on this and see whether he can enable the flag for midbrowser translation inclusion in intrepid's langpacks when they get available
<davidm> I would think that would get turned on soon
<davidm> OK, thanks
<davidm> lool, anything else on this?
<StevenK> lool: pitti and seb128 have been discussing that with Jeroen, I believe.
<lool> On the topic of xulrunner, I clarified what remained to be done to merge the gconf backend with asac; he gave me detailed instructions on what we want to do there; it's not too hard from a high level perspective, but it might not be easy to achieve as we need to move code at a later stage of the build process
<lool> I've started looking into this, and will report progress
<davidm> Sounds good.  Thanks.
<lool> davidm: I don't have immediate access to the minutes of last meeting; do you recall what was to be checked with linux-lpia?
<lool> I had a brief exchange with Michael, perhaps I have the information
<davidm> I don't off the top of my head but I'll pull the logs and post them.
<lool> Ok
<davidm> Mootbot is a bit slow posting logs these days
<StevenK> My guess is, "Why doesn't it exist yet?"
<davidm> But I have mine.
<lool> I'm happy to report on progress on xulrunner, langpacks and linux-lpia next week again; I know what needs to be done, and there are no critical blocker apart of translation enablement
<lool> StevenK: It does exist?!
<davidm> OK, I'll carry to complete action forward
<lool> linux-lpia | 2.6.26-1.1 |      intrepid | source
<ogra> (out of topic question for later discussion) regarding the question just popped up in -mobile ... are we planning SRUs for the bootspeed issues ?
<StevenK> Oh, neat
<davidm> [action] lool was to investigation of xulrunner, langpacks and linux-lpia bits
<MootBot> ACTION received:  lool was to investigation of xulrunner, langpacks and linux-lpia bits
<lool> It even builds udebs and cjwatson enabled d-i support for lpia!
<StevenK> Oh, sorry, I was thinking about the meta binary package "linux-lpia"
<lool> ogra: Lets discuss this towards the end of meeting as a separate topic?
<davidm> ogra, can you add that to the agenda please
<yannick> lool, ekiga/lpia added in the agenda.
<ogra> lool, right,just didnt want it to be lost
<lool> yannick: thanksely
<davidm> lets review the status of intrepid tasks: merge of ppa, installer, images etc.
<davidm> [topic] Stevenk livecd-rootfs
<MootBot> New Topic:  Stevenk livecd-rootfs
<StevenK> I am working on hacking the trigger scripts on antimony, and need to check with Adam. I will be writing him an e-mail after this meeting which the basic idea is, "Help!"
<lool> StevenK: What could be a rough ETA of this working daily in the datacenter?
<StevenK> lool: If I could clear my plate, concentrate on it and have Adam to bounce ideas off, less than a day. Realistically, next week.
<ogra> StevenK, adam and elmo have moved my classmate builder over to antimony afaik due to me not being available and havung to generalize the build there should be a lot similarities now
<lool> Ok; I guess it's up to davidm whether to give priority to your other tasks (which I guess are hardy ones) versus intrepid stuff; thanks for the update!
<StevenK> ogra: I'm guessing that triggers one of the i386 builders to chug over it.
<davidm> lool, I'd love to change priority but I can't :-(
<davidm> OK
<StevenK> So would I.
<StevenK> I'm sick of OMGKITTENSURGENT hardy tasks popping up.
<ogra> StevenK, i havent talked to either of thembut building images locally atm with the changes that were applied by colin and it seems to work fine here
<davidm> StevenK, do you have any merges still on your plate
<StevenK> Hand-wavy, modest. Ish.
<ogra> so i suspect its just a matter of runing cron.daily in the right dir on antimony
<davidm> OK,
<StevenK> lool: Oh, Mr. pkg-maemo person, when is modest and libwpeditor-plus going to hit Debian?
<ogra> lets corner them later today ;)
<davidm> [topic] StevenK open merges
<MootBot> New Topic:  StevenK open merges
<StevenK> ogra: Actually, that's not a bad idea. I'll hit up Colin for help with the scripts, if I can, since he isn't in a ohmigodmyeyeshurt timezone.
<StevenK> lool, davidm: ^
<ogra> StevenK, colin is away until monday
<StevenK> Doh!
<StevenK> Okay, Monday it is.
<davidm> StevenK, Good enough, let me know if I can help, but ogra is right Colin is on holiday this week.
<ogra> but we have my builder and can look at differences
<StevenK> Is this merges from Debian, or merges from the PPA?
<persia> MInd you, we'll probably get lpia alternate CDs for Tuesday
<davidm> StevenK, I'll be in London so can poke Colin if that helps
<davidm> StevenK, outstanding merges of any kind
<lool> StevenK: Good question; no idea what's holding them up; last time I checked libwpeditor-plus had been uploaded, but it was probably rejected as I don't see it; modest had trivial non-critical packaging issues, but was otherwise ready
<StevenK> davidm: Colin or Adam are good people for me to beg for help. Colin is easier, due to timezones.
<davidm> StevenK, We are coming close to feature freeze
<StevenK> davidm: Add a action item for lool to chase libwpeditor-plus + modest?
<davidm> StevenK, Adam is on my timezone can I bug him for anything for you?
<davidm> lool, is that action OK for you?
<StevenK> Just a status update. If pkg-maemo are going to do the work, I'm happy to get them sync'd and borrow credit.
<persia> Can we pull from SVN to speed that?
<StevenK> bzr
<lool> davidm: Yup
<StevenK> I can't think of any outstanding merges from Debian. I will hit up MoM tomorrow and grab stuff with my name on it.
<persia> s/SVN/VCS/
<lool> davidm: Just pinged the relevant person on IRC already; I'll help him push them to Debian and then sync them to Ubuntu
<davidm> [action] lool to Debian to chase libwpeditor-plus + modest status
<MootBot> ACTION received:  lool to Debian to chase libwpeditor-plus + modest status
<davidm> OK next topic
<StevenK> In terms of merges from the PPA, I'm not sure if anything has my name on it. persia?
<persia> StevenK: Not any more: you've done a bunch.
<davidm> [topic] persia status of the installer
<MootBot> New Topic:  persia status of the installer
<StevenK> davidm: The problem is, I really need to talk stuff over with Adam, since I often have questions while I'm doing the work. And working from 4am until 8am would just *suck*.
<davidm> StevenK, understood
<StevenK> s/Adam/Adam or Colin/
<persia> Well, we don't have d-i for intrepid: it seems it needs to get dropped from P-a-s.  I'm expecting that to happen early next week.
<lool> persia: Did you ask for it?
<persia> lool: I didn't: as we discussed previously, I thought I'd confirm with Colin first.
<persia> I can request it if we all feel sufficiently confident that such confirmation is deemed unnecessary.
<lool> persia: Ok; I think you should mail Colin to allow him to forward to lamont/elmo asap
<lool> lamont was very responsive to my latest Pas request
<StevenK> lamont/elmo/infinity
<persia> Actually, one needs to email all three of them, or they reject the request as invalid: documentation purposes and all.
<ogra> i think lamont is away as well atm
<persia> ogra: Doesn't matter who is there: any of them will do it, but they all need the email.
<ogra> (not sure if he took one or two weeks off)
<lool> StevenK: infinity has Pas access?
<davidm> lots of folks are away this week
<persia> lool: OK.  I'll push that sooner rather than waiting for Monday.
<StevenK> lool: I believe so.
<lamont> ogra: am not.
<persia> Yes.
<ogra> lamont, ah, hey :)
<StevenK> I'd have to check, that's from memory.
 * lool hugs lamont 
<persia> lamont: Don't interfere by presenting reality :p
<StevenK> lamont: Well, since you're here.
<StevenK> :-)
<lamont> email.  all 3 of us.  kthx
<lamont> :-)
 * persia will send the request email, and cc: Colin in case he wants to object
<lamont> ta
<davidm> [topic] persia status of merges?
<MootBot> New Topic:  persia status of merges?
<persia> Oh.  Still on installer: glade hates me.  I'm still waiting for our images, but I think I can install ubuntu-mobile on 1024x600, but not yet 800x480.
<davidm> Good luck on that.....
<persia> Merges: treb & ume-announcer need me to comment on how good they are, and upload with slightly different changelogs (and a one-line fix to treb).
<davidm> persia, anything outstanding?
<persia> That ought happen tomorrow.  I'm planning to hit the remaining PPA stuff next week, and suspect it will take about a week.
<davidm> sounds good
<persia> outstanding?
<davidm> Any other merger that you are aware of that need doing..
<davidm> s/merger/merges/
<persia> Oh, lots, but those are what I planned to do next week :)
<davidm> persia, OK then I shall move on
<davidm> [topic] lool status?
<MootBot> New Topic:  lool status?
<persia> I'm not aware of anything new coming from Debian, although I've not checked.  I am pulling a new BlueZ-gnome, but that's as much -desktop as -mobile.
<lool> Hmm status is catchup done; working on MIC with moblin/Intel folks and on misc things already covered here
<lool> Oh and I'm on national holiday tomorrow
<StevenK> persia: bluez-{libs,utils} are all dealt with, right.
<StevenK> s/.$/?/
<lool> Will try attending the team phone call though
<davidm> lool, thanks :-)
<persia> StevenK: Yes, the entire BlueZ stack is good, but there's an overflow possible in bluez-gnome that I want to pull.
<davidm> [topic] ogra status of the Classmate image
<MootBot> New Topic:  ogra status of the Classmate image
<ogra> i am currently poking a new bug that was introduced after colins changes with the image
<ogra> (installer doesnt reboot automatically after install anymore)
<ogra> beyond that the image is fine and has no regressions, the new kernel archive seems to work well and i need to discuss the remaining build changes that were done to run it in the DC with elmo or inifinity
<davidm> ogra, what is the QA plan for the image?
<ogra> to my knowledge it should be possible to just trigger builds for cmpc images in the DC by running the cron.daily script in my tree
<ogra> well, QA was supposed to be done until the topic with security updates came up
<ogra> the RC is an RC ... :)
<lool> ogra: Will you release an image with current kernel or new security fixed kernel?
<ogra> so the only change we had after RC is the new location and different signature for the kernel archive
<lool> I guess the later since you're rebuilding it
<ogra> lool, afaik the new kernel is the security one
<lool> Yes
<davidm> Ah, that is good
<ogra> we will re-roll images regulary is the areement
<ogra> if the amount of updates justifies
<ogra> and for each pointrelease of ubuntu
<lool> ogra: Will your cmpc kernel patches be merged in the next hardy-updates kernel?
<ogra> with 8.04.2 the kernel patches i use are in the mainline kernel, so no separate builds for that are needed anymore
<ogra> they already sit in hardy-proposed
<ogra> 2.6.24-20.39 has them
<lool> Ok so >= 2.6.24.20.22 has your changes
<lool> err 2.6.24-21.40 sorry
<lool> Was looking at wrong line
<ogra> (current proposed kernel is 2.6.24-21.40
<ogra> right
<davidm> ogra, Thanks for the update
<davidm> next topic
<ogra> so if i find the reason for the missing reboot i will be done
<davidm> I think we will skip the next topic as we are waiting status from lool on the Debian status of modest libwpeditor-plus
<davidm> moving on
<davidm> [topic] ian_brasil ...start the weekly team reports again?. Is there a need?
<MootBot> New Topic:  ian_brasil ...start the weekly team reports again?. Is there a need?
<ian_brasil> i want to propose starting the weekly team reports again...i think they are valuable and a good way for others to find out what is going on in ume..the downside is a bit more work for the developers writing the reports every week
<ian_brasil> thoughts?
<davidm> ian_brasil, I will be posting a weekly report it's in progress now.
<persia> ian_brasil: How about having minutes from this meeting sent to the list every week instead?
<davidm> I'll aggregate team info and also post logs of this meeting with URL pointing at it.
<ian_brasil> persia: that might be possible but an email tends to be a bit more detailed
<persia> ian_brasil: Makes sense.  I'm just not sure that all changes will be usefully represented as Ubuntu Mobile becomes more integrated with the rest of Ubuntu.
<lool> ian_brasil: davidm has been aggregating status from Canonical mobile team and has prepared internal reports for the last 2/3 weeks; I think he plans to send a stripped down versions without the private bits to the public list soon, but that's all quite recent organization still
<davidm> lool, exactly, that is my plan.
<lool> ian_brasil: So instead of everybody sending individual reports, we will have a weekly report for the team
<lool> davidm: The server team is really good at this since some weeks
<ian_brasil> lool: ah, that sounds ideal
<davidm> Yes they are and I plan on matching them ;-)
<lool> davidm: Not only do they post to internal, and public mailing list, they also blog it; quite nice  :-)
<davidm> interesting
<ian_brasil> yes, the server team are good at this
<davidm> I'll have to look at the blog, that I've not seen
 * davidm hates to blog
<ogra> just copy and paste the mail content ;)
<davidm> ian_brasil, does this address your concern?
<ian_brasil> yes
<davidm> OK, moving on then
<davidm> :-)
<davidm> [topic] Ekiga 3, LPIA (Yannick Defais)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ekiga 3, LPIA (Yannick Defais)
<yannick> I'm asking you to do some testing about our current Ekiga (2.9) on LPIA as none of us do have those devices. We have special interest in usability with the new Ekiga GUI. We are still in the process of bug fixing and GUI reworking. We hope to release in september for the next GNOME.
<lool> yannick: Can you give a high level summary of the changes?
<lool> Especially those we should be concerned to test, or impacting lpia specifically
<lool> yannick: e.g. die the UI change, did you work on hildonization, or is it simply the build system?
<yannick> quit huge changes since we are working on it since years... A new GUI like most IM (roster + presence), new video codecs: theora (free) and h264 for the better one which match low bandwidth, hotplug device (using HAL)...
<lool> yannick: Ok; so testing should be around basic IM and audio/video functionality as well as device setup?
<lool> I personally have menlow hardware as well as a Q1, but neither of these has a (supported) webcam
<lool> I don't have any webcam apart of the Q1U one which isn't supported
<yannick> You can use Ekiga for audio calls only too
<lool> Sure, I can test that with a happy second candidate, any taker?  :-)
<lool> Well I'll phone myself then
<davidm> lool, you and I can test
<lool> yannick: Could you send me a recommendation for a good USB webcam which is known to be well supported for audio/video in ekiga?
<lool> davidm: let's do this
<yannick> do those device have usb port? you maybe can plug an usb webcam.
<lool> yannick: They do have USB
<yannick> lool, better use a UCV driver based webcam
<davidm> less then 10 minute warning
<lool> yannick: i'll buy a webcam and test video as I receive it
 * ogra can test with a cmpc which has a proper uvcvideo cam
<persia> I've a working webcam on my Kohjinsha, but don't yet have an intrepid lpia install for it.
<yannick> s/UCV/UVC
<lool> yannick: Ok; I'll check ekiga resources or the uvc's documentation; thanks
<ogra> davidm, pick up one of the classmates if you are in london ;)
<davidm> ogra, I will
<davidm> OK moving on
<lool> davidm: [action] lool+davidm+... test ekiga
<davidm> [action]  lool+davidm+... test ekiga
<MootBot> ACTION received:   lool+davidm+... test ekiga
<yannick> You can report any comment/suggestion/bug in our BTS: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=ekiga
<davidm> [topic] Bootspeed improvements in hardy, do we do SRUs ?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Bootspeed improvements in hardy, do we do SRUs ?
<yannick> Tnak you very much :-)
<yannick> Thank*
<davidm> ogra, was that your new topic?
<pitti> hey
<ogra> davidm, yeah
<davidm> personally I think we do IF it does not impact the rest hardy, lool your thoughts?
<ogra> not sure how important we consider it at all though
<davidm> If it does we document how to do it and keep it in a testing image.
<ogra> imho devices are rarely rebooted anyway
<ogra> and rather put into suspend instead
<davidm> It's very important to some.
<davidm> Almost out of time
<davidm> ogra, we may have to take this off line
<ogra> fine with me
<ogra> probably soething for the ML
<ogra> that way we also might get more user feedback how much its needed
<davidm> Yes, it is critical to document any boot speed wins and how to achieve them.
<lool> ogra: If it's in any way dangerous you can fork to ppa
<davidm> OK, endmeeting in 1 miunute
<lool> But in general, we should be using SRUs which we are confident with as a mean to push things to hardy and not take the ppa route whenever possible
<lool> I think this was the last topic?
<davidm> lool, correct
<persia> Has to have been :)
<lool> Excellent timing then
<davidm> endmeeting going twice
<MacSlow> greetings
<davidm> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 08:04.
<davidm> Got to get mootbot time fixed ;-)
<Keybuk> heh
<davidm> Thanks everyone.
<lool> Thanks for chairing
<lool> davidm: It's displaying Ubuntu releases time; it's at hardy currently
<lool> (08:04)
<ogra> thanks
<Keybuk> ok https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2008-08-14
<Keybuk> I had reports from everyone except tedg
<Keybuk> let the public shaming begin ;)
<Keybuk> Ken is on Leave, and mpt is awaiting the arrival of his new laptop
 * pitti hopes that mpt's broken laptop is not due to intrepid
<Keybuk> no, physically broken aiui
<Keybuk> since he had to actually buy a new one
<Keybuk> we have an outstanding action from last week
<Keybuk>  * Riddell to follow up on MIR bug for libzip to remind pitti.
<Keybuk> did that happen?
<pitti> ugh, didn't see a bug mail about that
<pitti> but Riddell is on akademy, so...
<pitti> too many stuff to do and sleepless nights for alpha-4, sorry, forgot about it
<Keybuk> no problem
<Keybuk> it was his action ;)
<pitti> doko should be there next week to do MIRs
<Keybuk> mvo: you had an action about apt installation reports?
<mvo> yes
<mvo> * How useful are the apt filed installation failed reports? Should we
<mvo>   not file them against the failed package (e.g. gedit) but against
<mvo>   a central virtual component (like install-failurs) because most
<mvo>   likely the problem is not with gedit, but with e.g. scrollkeeper
<mvo>   that is run in the gedit postinst? This way triaggers
<mvo>   can pinpoint the problem and assign to the right packages.
<mvo>   I got some complaints that the apt bugreports clutter the
<mvo>   buglists too much.
<mvo> well, that is a agenda item for this meeting :)
<pitti> mvo: TBH, they are quite annoying
<pitti> not as a bug report as such
<seb128> for the record I'm the one who complain
<pitti> but because they seldomly hit the right package
<mvo> right, that is what seb128 said too
<pitti> and often it is PEBCAK
<mvo> pebcak?
<seb128> 95% of the bugs on GNOME packages are either scrollkeeper, or local corruption, or user doing ctrl-C, or no space, etc
<pitti> mvo: problem exists between chair and keyboard
<mvo> seb128: I added code to filter out the no space now
<mvo> right
<mvo> lcoal corruption is something I see quite often too (bad ram for example)
<mvo> I see the following options a) disable them entirely b) move them to a new pseudo package and let them be triaged there c) leave them as they are
<seb128> I suggested to create an "installation-issue" component and send those there
<pitti> mvo: my gut feeling is that we should start paying attention once we get two or three duplicates
<seb128> since they are usually incident reports rather than bugs
<Keybuk> mvo: it seems to me that this issue would be best raised with the QA team
<seb128> and bugsquad could triage there and reassign bugs when it makes sense
<Keybuk> since they are the team that would need to triage those reports and get them on to to the right package
<mvo> I should add that while they are annoying to us, they are much more annoying to our users so I'm not happy with a)
<pitti> so, if we had automatic duplication for package install failures, we could do that
<pitti> the auto-duplicater could set a bug to confirmed and public once it hits the third dup, or something like htat
<pitti> that should get rid of a lot of noise
<pitti> mvo: right, pure a) is bad
<mvo> right, d) is "better filtering"
<mvo> that is probably the best option
<pitti> mvo: b) would just be an excuse to ignore them entirely, and is thus not really better than a) IMHO
<pitti> I think for intrepid+1 we should sit down and talk about possibilities of auto-duplicating
<seb128> pitti: that would still pollute bugs list
<pitti> I'd love to work on that, if time permits
<Keybuk> mvo: I think you should take this up with the QA team ;)
<pitti> seb128: not more than crashes, ceratinly? we could leave them private?
<mvo> pitti: I don't like (b) either for the same reaosons
<pitti> mvo: e) !
<seb128> pitti: the new component should be something to triage for bugsquad, not something to ignore ;-)
<seb128> pitti: don't get me started on crashes ;-) I spent most of my week cleaning those and there is still around 3000 apport-crash open bugs which are not confirmed
<mvo> I will talk to the QA people and see how they feel about a "package-failures" pseudo component and if they think they could do triaging on it
<pitti> seb128: I don't think we should even *attempt* to exhaustively triage them
<pitti> seb128: they just look like bugs because we currently don't have another place to report them to, but they aren't as precious as real bug reports
<pitti> ok, different topic
<seb128> right
<Keybuk> ok
<pitti> mvo: we'd lose the ability to match those to packages, though
<pitti> mvo: s/ability/LP facilities/
<pitti> mvo: please also mention the possibility of auto-duping (which requires quite some engineering, but that's still better than humans doing duplication)
<mvo> hm, right. that is another problem with this solution, because everything gets dumped into it, I feel that people will be less inclinded to look at the reports
<mvo> I don't care for haskell failures for example
<mvo> but anyway, I will talk to QA and see what comes out of it (maybe they have some good ideas)
<seb128> that's like the current package association was making sense, most of the time it's something the postinst calls which breaks and not due to the package which calls the command
<seb128> "that's not like" rather
<Keybuk> ok, I think we're going round in circles here now
<Keybuk> mvo: I've added you an action to talk to QA
<mvo> thanks
<Keybuk> did I miss any other items from the agenda?
 * pitti would like to quickly talk about empathy
<Keybuk> pitti: go for it
<pitti> so, I guess we all tested empathy in the last week, right? :)
<pitti> my personal expression: looks a little less slick, ICQ connection is quite unreliable, and I didn't manage to get SIP working
 * tedg thought Empathy was broken this morning, but it actually turns out none of his contacts are online -- for real :)
<pitti> but apparently upstream is very active and keen on it
<pitti> so, I currently don't see a convincing argument for or against it
<seb128> pitti: does SIP work in pidgin?
<pitti> seb128: I don't think it is supposed to
<pitti> I just thought empathy was eventually meant to merge the pidgin and ekiga use cases
<seb128> ok, so it's not in comparison to pidgin but just what noted
<tedg> I wasn't able to get an A/V chat going in Intrepid, though I had in Hardy.
<pitti> seb128: right
<tedg> There may be a farsight issue in Intrepid.
<pitti> a big ++ for listening to netwokr-manager, though
<pitti> pidgin doesn't, adn thus never notices when I suspend or resume
<seb128> nobody screamed on the list so far
<seb128> somebody complain about some protocol not being supported and upstream added the corresponding profiles to svn
<pitti> the "SIP working" is apparently just the lack of an input box for the registrar/server, upstream said he'd fix it ASAP
<Keybuk> it's nice to have a responsive upstream ;)
<pitti> but the inability to connect to ICQ for two days (while pidgin worked) concerned me a bit
<seb128> my main motivation for the switch is that empathy should have a realiable schedule now since they are part of GNOME
<pitti> Keybuk: ++
<seb128> upstream is responsive
<seb128> and that's the way to go
<pedro_> I've testing it with butterfly and jabber and it works pretty fine for me, but the UI has some annoyances like that you can disable the notification sounds trough it instead you need to use gconf, etc
 * mvo also had trouble with icq, but otherwise it was fine
<pitti> so currently I am mildly in favor of empathy, if we do the default switch ASAP
<seb128> where pidgin doesn't care about GNOME, claim they are not a GNOME application, don't have schedules apparently and are not responsive
<pedro_> that's true
<seb128> pitti: I was going to suggest setting it as default for the next alpha
<Keybuk> that's not a bad idea
<seb128> it's easy enough to roll back to pidgin if needed
<pitti> I wished it would import my libpurple settings from pidgin
<Keybuk> see who screams ;)
<pitti> but otherwise it's fairly ok IMHO
<seb128> pitti: there is a patch upstream for that
<Keybuk> those using pidgin, after all, will still have it installed
<pitti> right, updates won't autobreak
<mvo> I don't like that some actions seemed to be only availabe on right-click on the notification area item
<pitti> and we are going to support pidgin for at least intrepid, too
<seb128> mvo: did you open bugs about those?
<pitti> minor things like "missing auto-popup of windows" can certainly be fixed quickly
<pitti> seb128: do you know if upstream would be willing to have a look at LP bugs?
<pitti> that worked so well with tracker back then
<seb128> pitti: they already do
<mvo> seb128: no, it didn't bother me enough for that, but I can do
<seb128> mvo: please do
<pitti> reports were actually *acted* upon and fixed :)
<seb128> pitti: Zdra on #ubuntu-desktop is upstream so you can ping him there too
<pitti> so my impression is that empathy is in about the state of tracker when we adopted it
<seb128> it's in better shape I would say
<pitti> and tracker got much better very fast towards the end of the release
<pitti> lots of little buglets, but by and large works
<pitti> and the underlying technology is good
<Keybuk> err
<seb128> but I would like to try empathy by default for next alpha, that's not going to cost a lot and rolling back is trivial
<Keybuk> please don't compare things with tracker as a compliment ;)
<seb128> the main issue there is that we will need some main promotion
<pitti> Keybuk: to be fair, upstream was *very* responsive and fixed our incoming bugs almost as fast as they came in
<seb128> and that will cost some CD space
<Keybuk> that's true
<Keybuk> tracker upstream was much faster than tracker ;-)
<pitti> Keybuk: the issue with tracker is that the entire concept is broken/painful :)
<mvo> heh
<Keybuk> I'm being unnecessarily mean and mdz-like
<Keybuk> tracker's fault wasn't upstreams, it's Linux's and the kernels refusal to help
<seb128> I'm waiting to see what the tracker rewritting will give
<pitti> seb128: well, we'd drop pidgin in exchange, I suppose?
<pitti> but empathy needs more plugins, so it might be a bit bigger
<seb128> pitti: we still need libpurple for all those protocoles which have no telepathy connection managers
<pitti> seb128: absolutely
<pitti> empathy itself is 400 KB smaller than 'pidgin'
<pitti> add some extra plugins for empathy
<seb128> should be equivalent
<pitti> telepathy-gabble alone is 214 KB
<pitti> but a must (jabber)
<pitti> anyway, we can sort out the details off-meeting
<seb128> right
<pitti> but general consensus seems to be to give it a chance and flip?
<Keybuk> yup, looks that way
<seb128> we will need you or doko to mir the telepathy-* and empathy
<Keybuk> seb128: you can have an action for the seed changes, and pitti you can have one too ;)
 * pitti will be on vacation for two weeks
<seb128> probably doko since you will be on holidays tomorrow
<seb128> Keybuk: deal ;-)
<yannick> do you plan to replace Ekiga wuth Empathy?
<seb128> no
<pitti> the only seeds I'll be dealing with will be the ones in my morning cereals, I'm afraid :)
<seb128> it's not ready to do that yet
<pitti> would be cool to get sip, though
<pitti> screw video, ekiga's video support is pretty bad unfortunately (compared to skype's)
<Keybuk> ok
<pitti> but it should already have moderate sip support?
<Keybuk> any other items for today?
<yannick> Issue is EMptathy is not telephony software: no DTMF, no call transfert etc. You'll get a basic SIP, not a real softphone.
<seb128> yannick: we don't plan to replace ekiga don't worry
<yannick> ok
<pitti> (not _yet_ *grin*)
<seb128> pitti: ;-)
<Keybuk> seb128: new gdm battle looks to be getting nasty upstream
<yannick> I've been able to get a audio+video call between Empathy and Ekiga 2.9.
<seb128> Keybuk: aka fedora against the rest of the world?
<pitti> as in, which gdm 2.24 will ship with?
<Keybuk> indeed
<Keybuk> DavidKit keeps posting me links to the thread
<seb128> pitti: no, fedora guys are unhappy about GNOME not being decided to ship it yet
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 14 Aug 14:00 UTC: Ubuntu Java Team | 21 Aug 12:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 21 Aug 14:00 UTC: Ubuntu Java Team | 22 Aug 12:00 UTC: Ubuntu MOTU | 23 Aug 13:00 UTC: Xubuntu Community | 28 Aug 12:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile Team
<Keybuk> and I can never tell whether he's posting them because the guys (like the Mandriva guy) have good points and gdm is being silly
<Keybuk> or whether he's doing the "Fedora rules the world, look at the pitiful people not obeying"
<Keybuk> thing
<pitti> /etc/udev/gdm.rules
<seb128> not sure but I know some people upstream don't like the fedora guys attitude
<Keybuk> pitti: /lib/udev/rules.d/gdm.rules
<seb128> the discussion is not really constructive I've to say
<Keybuk> seb128: no, I got that impression
<seb128> it's "it's fine this way", "no it's not", "yes it is"
<pitti> maybe it should be called 'fdm' then and become a separate project?
<MacSlow> seb128, do you mean Jon?
<pitti> (that's half-serious)
<seb128> MacSlow: nobody specifically
<MacSlow> ok
<seb128> and the new gnome-session seems to be a new gdm bis
<Keybuk> how is that doing?
<MacSlow> seb128, William Jon, who's also one of the new gdm upstream-devs, rewrites that afaik
<MacSlow> seb128, Keybuk: also full rewrite iirc
<seb128> Keybuk: slowing, lucas who started on it is changing job and moving and has no time for it now, vuntz is travelling and the fedora guys seem rather interested by the dbus api rather than getting basic things working
<Keybuk> heh
 * Keybuk feigns shock
<seb128> the dbus api is to inhibit session closing, etc
<Keybuk> do you have a feel for which gnome-session we should ship?
<Keybuk> since you're on holiday next weej
<Keybuk> and then until after feature freeze
<Keybuk> you only have a couple of days ;)
<seb128> well, it's not easy
<seb128> we can't start refusing to ship all the new GNOME things ;-)
<Keybuk> well, no :
<Keybuk> :p
<pitti> could it roughly be described as "the new one is faster, elegant, and useless"?
<seb128> I would have rolled back if that was easy
<seb128> but gnome-panel uses the new gnome-session dbus api now for example
<Keybuk> does that actually work yet?
<Keybuk> the Reboot button has done nothing for me since the new stuff went in
<pitti> well "less useful", in terms of not having any session management or user session configuration?
<seb128> the inhibit thing no, but there is a dbus api to reboot, logout, etc which is working
<seb128> pitti: I think those will be fixed before GNOME 2.24
<Keybuk> ok
<seb128> the real question is the session dialog
<pitti> Keybuk: known problem, but tricky to solve
<Keybuk> seb128: unlikely to be solved before FF
<seb128> I'm too busy to rewrite the old one for the new gnome-session right now
<Keybuk> so at this point, I'm not going to worry about it :p
<pitti> "accept William's braindead solution" vs. "sane technical solution we don't have"
<seb128> Keybuk: right
<Keybuk> which brings me onto my next point ;)
<seb128> Keybuk: that's a consolekit bug
<Keybuk> pitti: you are away until after Feature Freeze
<Keybuk> so tomorrow is your deadline for specs, all done?
<seb128> Keybuk: debian and pitti refuses to have consolekit using policykit
<pitti> seb128: if you are concerned about that, we can ship the shutdown/reboot scripts until we have something better
<pitti> well, "refuse"
<pitti> I just pointed out that it is a very problematic setup which will sooner or later bite back
<pitti> as long as we use the defautl configuration, it shuold work ok, but don't you dare to customize it
<seb128> ok, let's talk about that after your holidays
<seb128> maybe gnome-session will have settled meanwhile
<pitti> as I said, we can enable it in CK for now
<pitti> to avoid blocking on that bug for long
<seb128> up to you
<Keybuk> guys, we only have 20 minutes left and I'd like to address the minor point of FF first, so could you take that discussion offline for now ? :)
<seb128> we will have increasing complains but can wait 2 extra weeks to sort that
<seb128> Keybuk: alright
<Keybuk> pitti: ?
<pitti> WFM
<Keybuk> I was referring to my question to you above
<Keybuk> <Keybuk> pitti: you are away until after Feature Freeze
<Keybuk>  so tomorrow is your deadline for specs, all done?
<pitti> intrepid-device-perms is blocked on slangasek getting in the new pam framework
<Keybuk> when is that likely to happen?
<pitti> in particular, that affects enabling libpam-ck-connector by default
<Keybuk> is the new framework done and just waiting for upload?
<pitti> Keybuk: "RSN" according to Steve
<Keybuk> everything else works?
<pitti> but that will just affect VT logins
<pitti> nothing critical
<Keybuk> sounds like Beta Available to me
<Keybuk> jockey printer driver support?
<pitti> its' installed by default, but needs to be enabled manually for now in PAM
<Keybuk> is this going to be used by the frontend?
<pitti> Keybuk: upstream s-c-p didn't add the support yet
<Keybuk> when will upstream add the support?
<pitti> but it's still useful for installing drivers with the jockey UI
<pitti> Keybuk: unknown
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> it sounds like that is backend work for a future release
<pitti> I need some more small frontend changes, though
<Keybuk> so beta available, and defer the frontend to a spec for the next release
<pitti> like a checkbox to enable third-party driver sources
<pitti> but the heavy lifting is done
<Keybuk> and good work on gdm-guest-login
<pitti> that's beta-available
<Keybuk> indeed
<pitti> just some bugs to squash, after FF
<Keybuk> all beta available for FF, well done!
<Keybuk> (update the statuses please :p)
<pitti> ok
<pitti> well, UI bits in jockey missing is sort of UI freeze
<Keybuk> seb128: you are on Leave from Thursday next week through to after Feature Freeze
<pitti> bad timing
<Keybuk> so your FF deadline is Wednesday
<seb128> right
<Keybuk> the spell checkers stuff is mostly done?  are there any packages still to be demoted or removed as deps?
<seb128> spellchecking is done and just needs testing
<Keybuk> good work
<Keybuk> intrepid menus review?
<seb128> existant hunspell dictionnaries should still be added as depends, ArneGoetje is supposed to do that
<pitti> Keybuk: (I still leave device-perms as "blocked" as it is now, to better reflect the state)
<seb128> menus review will be done before my holidays
<Keybuk> seb128: LoÃ¯c is back, and David's team are lightly loaded
<seb128> those are mostly trivial changes
<pitti> seb128: did you ping Arne about updating the l-support packages for new hunspell dicts?
<Keybuk> so if you need some extra help, I can ask David
<seb128> pitti: not yet, was too late yesterday, will do that today
<pitti> seb128: great, thanks
<Keybuk> seb128: likewise better login speed, there's a few bullet points there not addressed by gnome-session ?
<seb128> Keybuk: help is always welcome, especially when we will have to sort those gnome-session issues
<Keybuk> again, if you need help, let me know asap and I'll arrange for some of LoÃ¯c's time if possible
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> mvo: intrepid desktop systemprefs
<seb128> Keybuk: login speed, I'll look at the other points but not sure I'll manage to do all the changes, anywhere points where loic help would be welcome
<seb128> Keybuk: thanks
<Keybuk> it's in your PPA?  any particular reason it's not in the archive?
<mvo> Keybuk: the proxy stuff is availabe in my ppa
<mvo> Keybuk: the global selection of the default language is part of language-selector
<Keybuk> the proxy stuff is the one we reallly wanted :)
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Ubuntu Java Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 21 Aug 12:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 21 Aug 14:00 UTC: Ubuntu Java Team | 22 Aug 12:00 UTC: Ubuntu MOTU | 23 Aug 13:00 UTC: Xubuntu Community | 28 Aug 12:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile Team
<mvo> upstream was not very keen on taking a patch so I implemented most of it in a external dbus backend package
<Keybuk> ok, but any reason it's still in your PPA and not uploaded?
<mvo> and just patch gnome-network-settings to do the dbus calls (relatively small patch)
<mvo> no, just I will do that before the weekend
<Keybuk> ok great
<Keybuk> then it sounds beta available
 * mvo nods
<Keybuk> you have a little longer than everyone else, since you have all of next week before you go on leave
<Keybuk> so your deadline is next friday
<Keybuk> package supportedness ui
<mvo> the hardy bits are done and are blocked on the final list of what is actually a server package
<Keybuk> the Hardy bits are in your bzr branches and you say they're done?
<mvo> yes
<Keybuk> which bits go into Intrepid?
<mvo> for intrepid mpt had some more suggestions for UI changes and more flexibility when the archive reoganization comes
<Keybuk> is that on target for FF?
<mvo> so that is mostly ground work for that right now, to better deal with debtags (we may use that as the vehicle)
<Keybuk> at least is the backend bits you need done?
<mvo> not all is done in the backend yet, sorry. I'm not sure if I manage FF with that, but that should be ok because for intrepid none of that will be actually used (as its a regular release and not a lts)
<Keybuk> ok
<mvo> so the package support status is much easier to figure out than in a lts
<Keybuk> if you can get it to good progress next week, that would be great
<Keybuk> upgrade testing in sandbox is beta available? well done!
<mvo> I will do that
<mvo> yeah, I got some feedback too (positive!)
<mvo> I wil upload it into the archive too before the weekend, but its most useful currently for people running hardy obviously
<Keybuk> ok great
<Keybuk> Riddell: mostly beta available, well done, and nice to see KDE 4.1 in
<Keybuk> (even though you're not here, at least I get to put that in the meeting log :p)
<Keybuk> --
<Keybuk> next topic: meeting times
<Keybuk> I'm at a manager's sprint in London next week, I'll be still available for emergencies, but not regular calls, etc.
<Keybuk> so I won't be able to lead this meeting
<Keybuk> since Martin is away, he won't be able to either
<Keybuk> and Seb is away as well
<Keybuk> so there won't be a meeting next week
<Keybuk> the week after that, Martin, Seb and Michael are awy
<Keybuk> so I suggest we don't have meeting that week either
<Keybuk> which means the next meeting will be the 4th September
<Keybuk> (kwwii, mpt, Mirco and Macslow all attend Mark's weekly user experience calls - so they won't be without a weekly meeting :p)
<Keybuk> err, and that's the end of this one ;)
<Keybuk> thanks all
<mvo> thanks
<MacSlow> cheers
<seb128> thanks
<pedro_> thanks
<pitti> thanks all
<pitti> and those who have, enjoy your holidays
<pitti> but now, off to releasing that alpha...
<seb128> oh btw tomorrow is a national holiday here
<seb128> I'll probably be around to catch up on some things but not full day
<persia> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:05. The chair is persia.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<persia> Who's here for the Java meeting?
 * robilad is
 * slytherin raises hand
 * persia suspects there are some lurkers
<persia> Right.  Agenda is up.
<persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/Meeting
<persia> First item, as always, is the Roadmap review
<persia> [topic] Roadmap review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Roadmap review
<persia> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/Roadmap
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/Roadmap
<persia> [topic] Integration of Java into server stack
<MootBot> New Topic:  Integration of Java into server stack
<persia> robilad: How is the breakdown progressing?
<robilad> ok, looked a bit around, and we've said last week, that we want to see what the packaging structure would look like
<robilad> so, the first thing that you'll find if you look for say, glassfish v3 dependencies, is
<robilad> http://weblogs.java.net/blog/kohsuke/archive/20080107/modules.png
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://weblogs.java.net/blog/kohsuke/archive/20080107/modules.png
<robilad> which is a graph of modules generated by kohsuke for glassfish v3
<robilad> it's impressive
<robilad> it's huge. ;)
<robilad> fortunately, most of those dependencies seem to be sun-specific, and presumably a part of glassfish and/or related projects.
<robilad> the ones that aren't and are sticking out are jruby, (and it's subdependecies), ant, backport of java.util.concurrent, etc.
<robilad> that's largely stuff hanging in the bottom of the tree
<robilad> now, as the URL shows up there, this is the status of affairs back in january
<robilad> so, we'd ideally want to avoid having to spend too much time with old data
<robilad> i.e. how do we go about getting useful data what we need to package from projects using maven2 to build?
<robilad> it turns out we're not the only ones considering that problem ;)
<robilad> ideally, what we'd want for a project using maven2 to build, would be something like http://myfaces.apache.org/tobago/tobago-sandbox/dependency-analysis.html
<robilad> http://myfaces.apache.org/tobago/tobago-sandbox/dependency-analysis.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://myfaces.apache.org/tobago/tobago-sandbox/dependency-analysis.html
<robilad> you can see that the project has dependecies it needs during the build, some dependencies are declared wrong, etc.
<robilad> getting that kind of output from glassfish, etc. would be useful to match against our own package database
<robilad> and we can get it through (in theory at least, havenT tried this yet)
<robilad> http://maven.apache.org/plugins/maven-dependency-plugin/analyze-mojo.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://maven.apache.org/plugins/maven-dependency-plugin/analyze-mojo.html
<persia> And presumably such tools could be used to validate all dependencies, and better track e.g. what can be headless, etc.
<robilad> yep
<robilad> that's for maven, of course
<persia> Is the generation code available somewhere, or can arbitrary packages be submitted?
<persia> Ah, maven only.  That's trickier :)
<robilad> for the general problem of what needs to depend on what, there is another nifty tool
<robilad> http://www.kirkk.com/main/Main/JarAnalyzer
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.kirkk.com/main/Main/JarAnalyzer
<robilad> it can be used on a directory of jar files, and will tell you how they interdepend
<slytherin> that reminds me, jaranalyzer is not in Ubuntu
<robilad> if only we had a directory of all jar files in ubuntu ...
<robilad> ah, wait, we do!
<persia> Do we have a needs-packaging bug?
<slytherin> It should be a sync from Debian.
<persia> Ah, that's easier then.  Do we have that bug?
<slytherin> No. I will log one.
<persia> slytherin: Thanks.
<robilad> ok - so much for the tools research - i haven't had time to apply this yet to generate concrete packaging tasks
<robilad> but it should make our life a lot easier wrt what to package next.
<persia> robilad: Still, excellent to know there are such tools.  Do you think you'll be able to identify some tasks for next week?
<robilad> yeah
<persia> Great.
<persia> [action] robilad to prepare draft wiki page of server stack integration work for next meeting
<MootBot> ACTION received:  robilad to prepare draft wiki page of server stack integration work for next meeting
<persia> [topic] Identify possible opportunities to optimise the Java stack
<MootBot> New Topic:  Identify possible opportunities to optimise the Java stack
<persia> Does anyone want this?  We've had it up for a month, and nobody is running it.  I'd like to drop it from the roadmap.
<slytherin> I would like to break this task in multiple
<robilad> the tools, plus http://sparcs.kaist.ac.kr/~tinuviel/package/list.cgi?name=java should work fine
<robilad> (the code for generating that status listing is on his site)
<persia> slytherin: OK. Do you want to lead that then, and prepare a breakdown, etc?
<slytherin> persia: One of the sub task I had already added to agenda. Removing -gcj packages from 'Recommends'
<persia> Right.  We'll talk about that specific item soon, but I think either someone should volunteer to handle the general case, or we shouldn't talk about it every meeting :)
<persia> (not to fix it, just to identify the opportunities)
<slytherin> For now keep it, I will break it down in next week.
<persia> [action] slytherin to take over identification of possible opportunities to optimise the Java stack.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  slytherin to take over identification of possible opportunities to optimise the Java stack.
<persia> [topic] Transition Java packagse from multiverse to universe where possible.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Transition Java packagse from multiverse to universe where possible.
<persia> slytherin: How is that going?
<slytherin> I logged 2 bugs today, one each for libgdata-java and libcodemodel-java.
<persia> OK.  Are we catching up with Debian, or is there still a long way to go?
<slytherin> Another bug for libswingx-java will come soon
<persia> Also, is it mostly packaging changes, or just component changes?
<slytherin> It is mostly sync. In some cases it will be merge.
<slytherin> I am keeping an eye on pkg-java list to see which packages are migrated to openjdk
<persia> OK.  Do you need anything from anyone else?
<slytherin> No.
<persia> OK.  Moving on.
<persia> [topic] Maven packaging support options
<MootBot> New Topic:  Maven packaging support options
<persia> Koon seems to be absent.
<persia> kaaloo had an interesting idea of dynamically generating pom files based on apt-cache and fooling maven.  Any comments on that idea?
<persia> (kaaloo is also absent)
 * slytherin didn't get time to look into that part of spec.
<persia> OK.  That's it for roadmap then.  On to other items.
<persia> [topic] Discuss possibility of putting JRE on desktop and/or server CD images
<MootBot> New Topic:  Discuss possibility of putting JRE on desktop and/or server CD images
<persia> Personally, I think those decisions are best made by the Desktop and Server teams, but if there is support here, maybe we can appoint an ambassador to attend one of their meetings?
<slytherin> In my opinion it should be possible to server CD since the size of CD is pretty small, around 580MB
<slytherin> I would like Koon or robilad to take it up with server team.
<robilad> i'd suggest koon, too.
<persia> Koon sounds like a good person to be ambassador to the server team, since he's also active there.  Let's give him an action for the minutes :)
<robilad> ;)
<persia> [action] Koon to talk to server team about putting JRE on the CD.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Koon to talk to server team about putting JRE on the CD.
<persia> Who here also works with the Desktop team?
<slytherin> For desktop it is impossible now. But we would like to analyze if it is possible to split JRE in different packages ex. separate localizations. We should target this for intrepid +1
<persia> slytherin: That sounds good.  Shall we defer until intrepid+1 opens?
<slytherin> Sure.
<persia> OK.  Next item:
<persia> (and splitting it up into sensible chunks)
<persia> [topic] default look and feel
<MootBot> New Topic:  default look and feel
<slytherin> On that topic, we have almost agreed that if Kubuntu team has no issues we shuold make GTK as default look and feel. I had added yuriy to the particular bug and dropped a message for him on IRC but haven't got any reply.
<persia> Anyone from the Kubuntu team here?
<persia> Anyone willing to go talk to the Kubuntu team and report back next week?
<persia> Any objections to using GTK as the default look & feel?
<slytherin> I guess we need to raise this question on KDe devel list. Otehr than that I have no idea how to approach the problem.
<slytherin> oops, I meant Kubuntu devel list
<persia> slytherin: Are you up for drafting that mail?  Maybe cc: the java list?
<slytherin> persia: won't be possible today, will be travelling to home town in an hour or 2.
<persia> slytherin: Maybe next week then.  No rush.
<slytherin> ï»¿ï»¿For Kubuntu we could propose Nimbus look and feel but it is not part of any jre yet. - http://java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/javase/java6u10/#nimbus Also question remains as to how do we select different look and feel depending on DE.
<persia> Let's start the discussion with them, and see what they think about metal vs. GTK.  Getting per-DE themes is probably intrepid+1
<slytherin> So let's keep that topic aside till we receive response from Kubuntu team
<persia> [action] slythering to contact kubuntu team re: look & feel
<MootBot> ACTION received:  slythering to contact kubuntu team re: look & feel
<persia> [topic] removal of -gcj packages from 'Recommends'
<MootBot> New Topic:  removal of -gcj packages from 'Recommends'
<slytherin> This is an important one.
<robilad> sounds useful, now that openjdk is the default.
<slytherin> Currently many java libraries try to pull *gcj* packages in intrepid because their corresponding -gcj package is in 'Recommends'
<slytherin> I have already worked on bsh and patch is waiting sponsorship. bug 257402
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 257402 in bsh "Replace build depends 'libservlet2.3-java' with 'libservlet2.4-java'" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/257402
<persia> gcj is still useful for many things, but may no longer make sense as the default.
<robilad> cool - is this something we'll be able to sync on with debian?
<robilad> (post lenny, I assume)
<slytherin> robilad: For Debian default-jdk will be java-gcj-compat-dev for lenny.
<persia> Even post-lenny it's tricky, as OpenJDK only works on three architectures.
<persia> Even so, the proper solution is likely to be using default-jdk, and only selecting -gcj when that is the default jdk.
<robilad> right, makes sense
<robilad> indirection ftw
<slytherin> persia: Can you please explain what is advantage of -gcj package?
<persia> slytherin: It's compiled natively, so it doesn't need JIT, and runs faster.  That said, it's compiled natively, so you can't do some of the runtime tricks you can do with pure Java.
<slytherin> hmm
<robilad> aeh, the runs faster bit is a bit wrong ;)
<robilad> (at least with hotspot on x86, amd64, sparc)
<slytherin> anyway, let's target end of this month for removing -gcj from recommends for all the packages.
<persia> robilad: Really?  VM with JIT and hotspot will be faster than native?  I suspect that's due to the compiler more than the VM.
<robilad> nah, it's due to the vm
<robilad> basically, hotspot optimizes the code for actual usage and hot paths
<persia> robilad: After the meeting, if you have time to explain, I'd like to hear more.
<robilad> and can heavily opitmize and deoptimize it depending on very lightweight profiling, etc.
<robilad> sure.
<persia> slytherin: That seems sane.  Do we have a way to automatically generate a list of affected packages that need work?
<slytherin> persia: Not sure. but we should check all the 'lib*-java packages.
<persia> OK.  Any volunteers to lead this cleanup effort?
<slytherin> not me, but I will be doing it as and when possible.
<persia> Heh.  OK We'll just note it as an initiative then, but not roadmap it, as you've aleady two items :)
<slytherin> sure
<persia> [topic] last minute additions
<MootBot> New Topic:  last minute additions
<persia> Anybody have anything else they want to discuss?
<slytherin> I have 2 and then I run
<persia> 2 more?  What?
<slytherin> ant had a bug fix release 1.7.1. It will be good if we can get it in before FF.
<persia> Do we have a bug?
<slytherin> didn't check.
<persia> And the other one?
<slytherin> I have logged bug for jaranalyzer- bug 257904
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 257904 in ubuntu "Please sync jaranalyzer 1.2-3 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/257904
<slytherin> :-)
<robilad> thanks, slytherin
<persia> Excellent.
<persia> Anyone else have anything?
<slytherin> Done from my side. I have to rush. Will be back on Monday. Happy hacking to everybody. :-)
<persia> OK.  Anyone up for writing minutes?  I used MootBot this time, so it might be easier.
<robilad> i'll take it over
<persia> robilad: Thanks.
<persia> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:57.
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 21 Aug 12:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 21 Aug 14:00 UTC: Ubuntu Java Team | 22 Aug 12:00 UTC: Ubuntu MOTU | 23 Aug 13:00 UTC: Xubuntu Community | 28 Aug 12:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 28 Aug 14:00 UTC: Ubuntu Java Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-08-15
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 19 Aug 15:00: Server Team | 20 Aug 17:00: QA Team | 20 Aug 22:00: Platform Team | 21 Aug 13:00: Desktop Team | 02 Sep 21:00: Community Council
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 19 Aug 11:00: Community Council | 19 Aug 15:00: Server Team | 20 Aug 17:00: QA Team | 20 Aug 22:00: Platform Team | 21 Aug 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 18 Aug 04:00: Arizona LoCo IRC | 19 Aug 11:00: Community Council | 19 Aug 15:00: Server Team | 20 Aug 17:00: QA Team | 20 Aug 22:00: Platform Team | 21 Aug 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team
<stdin> I think that's finally the right schedule now
<pdragon> java meeting still on today?
<stdin> wasn't that on the 14th?
<stdin> 14:00 - 15:00 UTC according the the fridge
<stdin> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/1606
<pdragon> oh dammit... stupid time zone difference. it is the 14th for me now :/
<pdragon> or wait... isn't it the 14th now in UTC?
<pdragon> nm... i'm dumb
<pdragon> i'll get used to the time conversions someday :/
<stdin> you should (now) be able to /msg ubottu schedule <your timezone>  to get a localized schedule, eg: /msg ubottu schedule US/Eastern
<pdragon> yeah, i'm dumb. i did the conversion earlier and thought it was PM instead of AM
<pdragon> just my dumb fault
<pdragon> guess i'll just go read the log :)
<paultag> !schedule Berlin
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about schedule berlin
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-08-17
<Keile> Is anyone here?
<Keile> I need some help installing ubuntu.
<philwyett> Please join #ubuntu for support
<jpds> philwyett: *sigh*, too late.
<philwyett> :-)
<philwyett> Oops... Forgot to '/set irc_conf_mode 0' to bring back join and part messages. :-)
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-08-10
<doctormo> Aye
<pleia2> bodhi doesn't appear to be online
 * pleia2 nudges Vantrax 
<pleia2> I think this is around when he starts work monday morning
<cprofitt> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 19:02. The chair is cprofitt.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<cprofitt> Welcome to the Ubuntu Community Learning Project Meeting
<Vantrax> yeah, Im at work, I have a quick meeting with work atm unfortunately but i approve of the structure
<Vantrax> ill see you all in a little bit
<cprofitt> pleia2, please start as you are the only topic
<pleia2> ok, so we want to vote upon the basics of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Structure
<pleia2> if everyone could scroll down to the bottom of the page you will find the notes from our last meeting
 * cprofitt nods
<pleia2> the top of the page is generalizations that were drafted, the bottom is pretty much what we decided is voteable
<pleia2> so, at the bottom under "General Membership" - any comments or changes?
<cprofitt> so the part under the meeting 7.27.2009 section
<pleia2> yep
<cprofitt> and not the Roles or Moderation sections... or those too
<pleia2> starting with general membership
<pleia2> we'll get to the rest in a couple minutes :)
<cprofitt> I have no additions to 'General Membership'
<pleia2> we deferred discussion of how we'd approve since only bodhi and I were around
<cprofitt> at this point it is just you and I...
<pleia2> any comments on that? I'm inclined to say current members +1 similar to beginners team
<pleia2> doctormo is here :)
<cprofitt> doctormo, you here?
<pleia2> well he was a few minutes ago! hehe
<cprofitt> to be clear the 'general team' will be anyone can join... not 'invite or approval'
<pleia2> there is approval
<doctormo> cprofitt: sure
<pleia2> but the approval process is very easy
<pleia2> they just introduce themselves and sign the CoC pretty much
<cprofitt> ok...
<cprofitt> I can vote +1 on that...
<cprofitt> shall we call a vote?
<pleia2> then "someone" says "ok" and someone on the board adds them to the team
<doctormo> I want to hear about how that happens
 * cprofitt distracted by kids
<pleia2> doctormo: someone is interested in the team, they post an introduction with their skillset to the mailing list, irc channel, or forums (we don't have a forum, so maybe not)
<pleia2> we confirm they have signed the CoC and add them to the team
<pleia2> by "we" I'm not sure who, or who determines whether the introduction is suitable
<doctormo> To me, there is no such thing as 'membership', there is just privilages which come about from the way in which you work to progress the system. Only the groups where we have production and administration need to have closed, approval only mecanics.
<pleia2> I think any introduction beyond "Hi, I like cake, your team is neat" is fine ;)
<pleia2> hm, so you don't want a general team?
<doctormo> My concern is that we would miss an opertunity to create a space for students and non-volunteer teachers to become a strong self helping community by being exlusive. Even with such easy access, it's still barriers which need not apply to users.
<doctormo> I fully agree with having the stated restrictions of contributary groups, it's a good way to go.
<pleia2> so you think there should be a general team, but it should be open?
<cprofitt> pleia2, that is an issue -- we need to define the 'we'
<pleia2> cprofitt: yes, that was my point
<doctormo> pleia2: I don't think there should be a general team, it creates an 'us' and 'them' without defining the rolls and responsibilities of what that means.
<pleia2> the "barrier" is only because we want people to introduce themselves, so we have some idea what skills our members have, we can ask them directly when projects come up
<pleia2> otherwise it's just some other team on LP that they join and we know nothing about them or why they're interested or anything
<cprofitt> I am for a 'team', a 'council' and sub-teams defined by roles
<pleia2> cprofitt: +1
<cprofitt> pleia2, if there is no activity requirement -- then why do we care about the introduction?
<doctormo> pleia2: The idea of the users team is to be a mailing list, not much more. People who are contactable, a pool of people who can be progressed into other teams.
<Buuntu> I think the whole team thing is a really good idea though, it gets new users sort of hooked and makes them feel more in the community
<cprofitt> +1 doctormo
<pleia2> cprofitt: because of what I just said, it'd be nice to know why they are interested, what skills they have and want to contribute
<cprofitt> pleia2, it would... but does it matter if they tell us before or after joining?
<Buuntu> *speaking as a new member*
<pleia2> cprofitt: I'm worried that they'll never tell us, the idea is to provide a process where they feel it's appropriate and expected to provide an introduction
<pleia2> I mean, we don't have to do it, but that was the thought pattern behind asking for an intro :)
<cprofitt> we can 'remove' people that do not introduce themselves...
<pleia2> removing and rejecting sends a bad message, as polite as the rejection letter that accompanies it is
<doctormo> I would say that an open and destinct users team could be advertised as a student help and support channel. Everything else you could do as planned.
<cprofitt> I just think it is difficult to have multiple approval points and an introduction requirement
<cprofitt> NYS team works that way...
<pleia2> cprofitt: multiple approval points?
<doctormo> Put it on a 1 year renew and remove anyone who removes themselves from the mailing list.
<cprofitt> and I do not approve anyone... because I never see the introduction
<doctormo> cprofitt: We have no approval process in MA, we accept anyone but reserve the right to exclude.
<doctormo> In case there is trouble.
<cprofitt> what does reserve the right to exclude mean?
<jimi_hendrix> sorry to interrupt, but can i get a log?
<pleia2> cprofitt: there have been spammers and very inappropriate usernames (reported and deleted) try to join the pennsylvania team
<cprofitt> jimi_hendrix, we can answer that at the end
<cprofitt> pleia2, I can appreciate that...
<doctormo> cprofitt: It means if someone causes trouble, they'll get kicked out.
<jimi_hendrix> cprofitt, ok
<cprofitt> if we have an introduction and CoC sig -- what will serve as the introduction?
<pleia2> jimi_hendrix: http://princessleia.com/temp/learning.txt
<cprofitt> will it me email? forum? wiki?
<pleia2> cprofitt: yes, that is what the introduction is, as I said: they post an introduction with their skillset to the mailing list, irc channel, or forums (we don't have a forum, so maybe not)
<pleia2> whatever is most comfortable to them
<pleia2> so it could be "I'm a professor at $college, I am interested in helping course development, I have signed the CoC"
<pleia2> in IRC
<cprofitt> so the mailing list can be joined by anyone.
<pleia2> then we say "cool, added"
<pleia2> yes, the mailing list is open to everyone right now, and should stay that way
<cprofitt> I would think that we should have ONE method of introduction...
<cprofitt> not multiple...
<cprofitt> so it is less confusing for the 'approval' team to look at
<cprofitt> but that is a procedural thing
<doctormo> pleia2: So long as that's the case, then I have no further objections. I just figured the mailing list would be a launchpad mailing list.
<pleia2> cprofitt: not everyone is comfortable with introducing themselves on IRC, not everyone is comfortable introducing themselves on a forever-archived mailin glist
<pleia2> doctormo: no, our mailing list is on lists.ubuntu.com, our LP one has been retired
<cprofitt> I am ok with an approval process as long as it is quick and does not get tied to a single person
<pleia2> cprofitt: so I figure the approval process is one of us (the board) sees the introduction on IRC or the mailing list, and adds them to the team
<doctormo> pleia2: Ah well, that's a mecanical thing, I would have prefered it the other way round. But it's not so important.
<bodhizazen> oic, sorry I am late
<cprofitt> pleia2, that works for me...
<doctormo> OK I have to go, I think things have been sorted out.
<pleia2> ok
<cprofitt> I just want to make sure that if the board has 8 people or 20 people that all those people feel as though they can approve
<pleia2> yeah, everyone on the board should feel comfortable approving
<doctormo> Public mailing list, to be advertised as student/teacher help and support as well as pool of potential contributors, general team for contributors ith possible seperate mailing list (devel)?
<cprofitt> #vote Approve General Membership
<bodhizazen> +1 pleia2 , I do not mind people hanging out, but I would like somebody to know who they are =)
<doctormo> cprofitt: You can't have a board of more than 12 or of 8, bad numbers.
<pleia2> doctormo: I think we can define these roles at a later date - but I think such lists may be required at some point
<pleia2> I don't want to micromanage too much at this point
<cprofitt> [VOTE]Approve Membership Structure as currently listed on wiki
<MootBot> Please vote on: Approve Membership Structure as currently listed on wiki.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
 * bodhizazen would like to keep mailing lists to a minimum =)
<cprofitt> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cprofitt. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<pleia2> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<doctormo> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from doctormo. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<bodhizazen> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from bodhizazen. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<jimi_hendrix> 1 sec let me skim this
<cprofitt> Any last votes?
<cprofitt> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<jimi_hendrix> +1
<jimi_hendrix> aww
<jimi_hendrix> cprofitt, :(
<pleia2> jimi_hendrix: we'll count you in spirit! :)
<cprofitt> [AGREED] Accept Membership as on Wiki
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Accept Membership as on Wiki
<cprofitt> as there are no other topics on the agenda are there any topics from the floor?
<jimi_hendrix> pleia2, thats not as good
<pleia2> cprofitt: I'd quickly like to review Roles and Moderation
<doctormo> cprofitt: Still no inter-teaching of how to use moodle, all my course material is flapping about as pdfs
<cprofitt> ok...
<bodhizazen> I have one topic
<cprofitt> [TOPIC] Roles
<MootBot> New Topic:  Roles
<cprofitt> you have the floor pleia2
<doctormo> But I'll have to come back to that since I do have to go 40 mins ago.
<cprofitt> ok doctormo
<pleia2> so, the Roles need more discussion, doctormo had thoughts too he put on the wiki, I don't think we need to define them right now
<pleia2> but as things get rolling we'll want to probably create subteams that we first just define on wiki pages, maybe later devote LP groups if they decide they want mailing lists (like doctormo's idea of a -devel and -users list)
<bodhizazen> I think we need to define roles via Moodle
<cprofitt> +1 bodhizazen
<cprofitt> +1 pleia2 as well
<pleia2> but there are parts of the team that has nothing to do with Moodle
<jimi_hendrix> bodhizazen, whats the moodle link again
<pleia2> remember, we're not just focused on our Moodle site :)
<cprofitt> I think roles both inside and outside of moodle
<bodhizazen> learn.ufbt.net
<pleia2> we also include real life classroom courses, IRC courses, neither of which may ues moodle
<bodhizazen> I am not opposed to that pleia2
<cprofitt> pleia2, would the courses be listed on the moodle site?
<bodhizazen> Is there anyone who know moodle well enough to outline the moodle roles ?
 * cprofitt senses a digression
<pleia2> cprofitt: which courses?
<cprofitt> lets skips that for post meeting...
<pleia2> ok
<bodhizazen> and pleia2 and doctormo can outline the non-moodle roles ?
<cprofitt> so the main point is that we have to develop the roles...
 * jimi_hendrix likes the idea of IRC courses
<pleia2> cprofitt: right
<pleia2> jimi_hendrix: Ubuntu Classroom has IRC courses already :)
<cprofitt> [AGREED] More definition of roles should be worked on
<MootBot> AGREED received:  More definition of roles should be worked on
<jimi_hendrix> i know
<pleia2> not many of late though, need more
<pleia2> ok, Moderation
<pleia2> I don't think this requires much discussion honestly
<cprofitt> [ACTION] pleia2 will add non-Moodle roles to wiki and others will view make comments
<MootBot> ACTION received:  pleia2 will add non-Moodle roles to wiki and others will view make comments
<cprofitt> [TOPIC] Content update by bodhizazen
<MootBot> New Topic:  Content update by bodhizazen
<bodhizazen> jimi_hendrix, we can discuss irc classed with the BT also if youlike
<bodhizazen> Oh, thanks cprofitt
<bodhizazen> Just wanted an update, where are we on content ?
<jimi_hendrix> bodhizazen, s/classed/classes/ or am i reading that wrong
<pleia2> bodhizazen: doctormo is developing server classes (he has links on his blog I can dig out if you'd like)
<pleia2> I'm also working with him to launch desktop classes which our LoCo team will use, I promised to write the first section
<bodhizazen> I was thinking of developing a topic on installation
<pleia2> but neither doctormo nor I is familiar with Moodle
<pleia2> so our drafts are, as he put it, flapping about as pdfs
<jimi_hendrix> bodhizazen, the installer is self explaining?
<pleia2> (actually, mine are still raw txt)
<cprofitt> pleia2, I can assist with Moodle course design... I have created two on a different site
<bodhizazen> pleia2, you and doctormo can use the test server if you like
<bodhizazen> not really jimi_hendrix
<pleia2> cprofitt: I am completely useless with design
<cprofitt> k - we can work out a time for that then
<bodhizazen> People do not know how to say partition a hard drive for example
<cprofitt> any  thing else in there bodhizazen ?
<bodhizazen> no cprofitt
<jimi_hendrix> bodhizazen, i had no problem with it when i first installed xD
<pleia2> bodhizazen: both doctormo and I are *very* busy, I am +1 with his request to have a moodle course that we can take ourselves rather than hacking about with it, moodle is confusing
<bodhizazen> PM jimi_hendrix
<cprofitt> [TOPIC] Moderation by pleia2
<MootBot> New Topic:  Moderation by pleia2
<cprofitt> pleia2, there is a course on the site about Moodle...
<cprofitt> you can both take it
<pleia2> oh yes, so moderation, bodhizazen has experience with the beginners team on this
<pleia2> cprofitt: oh ok :)
<bodhizazen> I am hoping we will not need moderation
<pleia2> pretty standard Ubuntu rules apply, try to settle disputes between the specific parties, if that doesn't work they can come to the board, if that is a problem they go to the CC
<bodhizazen> I volunteer my services if needed
<bodhizazen> At the moment I do not think we need anything beyond the CoC
<cprofitt> +1 bodhizazen
<pleia2> +1
<cprofitt> I think the 'rules' and moderation will 'evolve'
<pleia2> pretty much we just want users to know that if they feel slighted, there is a procedure for discussing problems
<bodhizazen> We could make some general rules if we like, but I suggest solidifying them as we go
<pleia2> CoC is fine for now, I think
<bodhizazen> pleia2, refer them either to me or one of us 5
 * pleia2 nods
<cprofitt> yeah... I think that works...
<cprofitt> Any other topics from the floor
<bodhizazen> depending on how big the problem is and how much (or little) you all wish to moderate
<pleia2> cprofitt: I think just a general "what do we do now" note is in order :)
<pleia2> I want to bring more people onto the team, moodle theme is still hanging out there, but I want to start getting introductions from people and adding them to the team, queuing up some course ideas, blogging about this, etc
<pleia2> we've held off on all of this until we had membership sorted, which I think we have now :)
<pleia2> without a doubt, doctormo and I will need help with these server and desktop courses, I need to start gathering that talent
<bodhizazen> +1 pleia2
 * cprofitt grandmother on phone
<bodhizazen> pleia2, you took the words out of my mouth
<pleia2> :)
<bodhizazen> I am struggling at the moment
<pleia2> with?
<bodhizazen> I am used to multiple monitors
<pleia2> hehe
<pleia2> well, once we get cprofitt's $.02 and vote I think we can wrap up this meeting
<bodhizazen> ok
<bodhizazen> thank you by the way
<pleia2> for?
<bodhizazen> you do a lot for Ubuntu
<pleia2> oh, welcome :) thanks to you too! hosting and all the stuff you do with forums and beginners team and things
<cprofitt> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 19:49.
<bodhizazen> LOL
<pleia2> cprofitt: no vote then?
<cprofitt> distracted]
<pleia2> hm
<bodhizazen> I do not think we need to vote pleia2 , it is a natural progression
<pleia2> bodhizazen: alright
<pleia2> I had been holding off blabbering too much about the team because I knew we were waiting on our big bloggy announcements
<pleia2> just wanted to make sure there was no one who wanted that to continue
<Vantrax> okies, im back now
<bodhizazen> I think we are ready for the recruitment phase
<bodhizazen> Followed by outlining and adding content
<bodhizazen> I will work on some documentation for new users
<pleia2> ok, great :)
<bodhizazen> I convinced my parents to go with Ubuntu
<bodhizazen> and my father has given me some valuable feedback
<pleia2> cool
<bodhizazen> things us nerds take for granted
<Raidsong> i convinced a friend to go with ubuntu
 * pleia2 nods
<bodhizazen> nice Raidsong
<pleia2> ok, I think we can take this back to #ubuntu-learning :)
<pleia2> thanks everyone
<Raidsong> no so valuable feedback
<bodhizazen> I was just going to suggest #ubuntu-beginners , but learning works too
<Ng> --help
<Daviey> ++
<czajkowski> Ng: you just gonna ask this in channels ? :)
<Ng> I just said that in every irssi window I have open
<Ng> because I win at /foreach :(
<Daviey> czajkowski: I asked him the same thing :)
<czajkowski> Ng: how odd
<czajkowski> Daviey: great minds think alike or something
<Ng> it was not intended to happen ;)
<Daviey> czajkowski: And idiots follow suit
<czajkowski> never heard that
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-08-11
<mcasadevall> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 07:59. The chair is mcasadevall.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<mcasadevall> Who's here?
<ScottK> What's the meeting?
<mcasadevall> Mobile
<mcasadevall> morning StevenK
 * StevenK shores
 * ScottK will be here if it gets qt4-x11 fixed on armel.
<mcasadevall> ScottK, DEPWAIT new build hardware
<lool> hey
<plars> hi
<ScottK> Grumble.
<mcasadevall> morning lool plars
<ScottK> mcasadevall: Is there timeline for this?
<mcasadevall> ScottK, soonish I hope
<StevenK> Have we started the meeting yet, or did I just miss the #startmeeting?
<mcasadevall> StevenK, you just missed #startmeeting
<dyfet> Hi
 * mcasadevall pokes ogra, dyfet
<mcasadevall> oh
<mcasadevall> paulliu isn't even online
<mcasadevall> I guess that's everyone who's going to show
<mcasadevall> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20090811
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20090811
<mcasadevall> [topic] action item review
<MootBot> New Topic:  action item review
<mcasadevall> [topic] #
<mcasadevall> NCommander to investigate https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vnc4/+bug/338148 (co)
<MootBot> New Topic:  #
<mcasadevall> c/o
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 338148 in vnc4 "Needs new version from Debian: fails to build with removal of mesa-swx11-source" [High,Triaged]
<mcasadevall> [topic] GrueMaster to retest on i386 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/337809
<MootBot> New Topic:  GrueMaster to retest on i386 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/337809
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 337809 in linux "APIC error on CPU 0" [Medium,Triaged]
<mcasadevall> GrueMaster, you awake?
<mcasadevall> guess not ...
<mcasadevall> [topic] Spec Review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Spec Review
<mcasadevall> lool, so if I understand our new spec review now, we all update the status, and just give a small update individually in th emeeting, or am I way off?
<lool> Right
<lool> [link] http://paste.ubuntu.com/251356/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/251356/
<lool> it's what I have in progress right now
<lool> There are some bugs
<lool> And mainly missing status i nspecs
<StevenK> Indeed, -wubi is missing
<lool> There are some dups due to the Recently updated blueprints link
<lool> So I'll refine this script output but it's not ready for this week
<mcasadevall> Ok
<ogra> how about we use http://piware.de/workitems/mobile/karmic/report.html
<mcasadevall> [topic] lool's status
<MootBot> New Topic:  lool's status
<ogra> tough thats not in order by developer
<lool> ogra: Hmm I'm basing on that script already
<lool> mcasadevall: Nothing much to report on my spec; just discussed stuff about it with the cloud team last week; didn't want to work on it as it's not very team dependent
<lool> So I preferred doing team stuff over the sprint
<mcasadevall> [topic] ogra's specs
<MootBot> New Topic:  ogra's specs
<ogra> mobile-arm-karmic-offline-installer-gui -> have to fix some issues in qemu this week
<ogra> mobile-karmic-freescale-desktop -> waiting for new linux metapackage which should hit the archive this afternoon
<ogra> we'll build A4 from universe
<ogra> (kernel and meta in universe)
<ogra> that gives me some freedom wrt freeze
<ogra> thats all
<mcasadevall> [topic] NCommander's specs
<MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander's specs
<mcasadevall> Not a whole lot to report, Installer changes are still dep-wait mostly on the kernel
<ogra> which spec is that ?
<mcasadevall> ogra, mobile-karmic-marvell-desktop
<ogra> :)
<ogra> how about the uboot setup and initramfs issues ?
<mcasadevall> ogra, depwait email from Marvell
<ogra> any progress on the debian-cd scripts ?
<mcasadevall> ogra, no, I had no machine most of the weekend and on Monda
<ogra> ok
<mcasadevall> I'm currently back home so I'm in much better shape w.r.t. to this
<mcasadevall> anyway
<mcasadevall> [topic] dyfet's specs
<MootBot> New Topic:  dyfet's specs
<dyfet> I created a working seed for a lxde desktop (lubuntu) and I am just finishing a meta package for it.
<dyfet> I also am investigating several arm/banshee issues, and yesterday I had some difficulties getting my env back running here which are now resolved.
<lool> Good
<dyfet> I think thats all :)
<mcasadevall> [topic] plars's specs
<MootBot> New Topic:  plars's specs
<plars> the status I have on there is pretty much up to date
<mcasadevall> [topic] StevenK's specs
<MootBot> New Topic:  StevenK's specs
<StevenK> -wubi is my only one
<mcasadevall> ok
<mcasadevall> Beside GrueMaster and paulliu did I miss anyone?
<StevenK> Selecting UNR as the environment and then clicking Install does nothing, I'm going to talk to Evan and/or Agostino about it.
<mcasadevall> [topic] Any Other Business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any Other Business
 * plars upgraded to karmic after the sprint, yay!
<StevenK> Alpha 4 is this week, I want testers!
<mcasadevall> Ok
<mcasadevall> going once
<mcasadevall> twice
<mcasadevall> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 08:21.
<czajkowski> very efficent meeting
<lool> czajkowski: I appreciate that as well  :)
<StevenK> It was lool begging for this format
<lool> Well it's not truly there yet since we didn't get all status in a web page
<cjwatson> afternoon [tech board]]
<cjwatson> I poked Mark; Scott is on holiday
<cjwatson> mdz: here?
<mdz> cjwatson: yep
<mdz> cjwatson: clan has reminded him
<cjwatson> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:01. The chair is cjwatson.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<cjwatson> Keybuk: ah, thanks for showing up, I know you're on holiday
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Outstanding actions
<MootBot> New Topic:  Outstanding actions
<cjwatson> (from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TeamReports/July2009)
<cjwatson> Colin to set up interviews with developers regarding upload privilege reorganisation (for ArchiveReorganisation)
<cjwatson> done yesterday; currently engaging in several dozen separate little conversations, although mostly just gathering data right now
<Keybuk> cjwatson: holiday basically means playing Tales of Monkey Island while catching up with e-mail, blogs and podcasts ;)
<cjwatson> Keybuk: one of those outdoor activity holidays then
<cjwatson> Action: Matt to contact TB nominees to confirm they wish to stand
<cjwatson> mdz: did they all say yes?
 * cjwatson parallelises slightly
<cjwatson> Action: Scott to implement Developer Membership Board proposal (LP, mailing list, documentation, etc.)
<cjwatson> Keybuk: where does this stand?
<mdz> cjwatson: sorry, distracted
<Keybuk> cjwatson: sprint, etc. not even picked up ball yet, let along dropped it
<mdz> cjwatson: I emailed technical-board@ with their responses, everyone agreed to stand
<cjwatson> I know the feeling. Will carry over
<cjwatson> [ACTION] Scott to implement Developer Membership Board proposal (LP, mailing list, documentation, etc.)
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Scott to implement Developer Membership Board proposal (LP, mailing list, documentation, etc.)
<cjwatson> Action: Jono to see that documentation is updated to reflect the Developer Membership Board
<cjwatson> this is presumably blocked on the implementation
<cjwatson> [ACTION] Action: Jono to see that documentation is updated to reflect the Developer Membership Board
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Action: Jono to see that documentation is updated to reflect the Developer Membership Board
<mdz> correct
<cjwatson> Action: Matt to communicate the new patent policy
<cjwatson> done, right?
<cjwatson> Action: Colin to update http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/techboard
<cjwatson> unfortunately I only noticed today that I haven't actually got login details yet; apparently newz2000 got derailed by the wiki subthread
<cjwatson> I think there are still things that ought to stay on the website that need to be updated, so I've asked again on that
<cjwatson> [ACTION] Colin to update http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/techboard
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Colin to update http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/techboard
<mdz> cjwatson: yes
<cjwatson> Action: Jono to draft text to communicate the TB's willingness to review key topics submitted by the community
<cjwatson> jono: did this happen? I think I missed it
<jono> cjwatson, sorry, not had a chance to yet, same reason as Keybuk
<jono> I can certainly have it ready this week
<cjwatson> [ACTION] Jono to draft text to communicate the TB's willingness to review key topics submitted by the community
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Jono to draft text to communicate the TB's willingness to review key topics submitted by the community
<jono> possibly eventoday
<cjwatson> Action: Colin to discuss with Bdale (Debian technical committee chair) about having a Debian representative on the Ubuntu TB
<jono> even today
<cjwatson> started, but Bdale would like to engage with us to figure out a bit more of what the role would entail
<cjwatson> ... but nobody's answered :)
<cjwatson> so personally I'd like to see that all or most significant technical discussions (as opposed to more local governance kinds of things) have a Debian seat at the table, for purposes of advice, history, liaison, etc.
<mdz> cjwatson: I don't think we can establish the scope of the role without Debian involvement
<mdz> so that's sort of part of the role
<cjwatson> right. but the above is a sane kind of general goal, subject to people's availability ...?
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Debian TC liaison
<MootBot> New Topic:  Debian TC liaison
<mdz> cjwatson: yes
<cjwatson> ok, I'll take that back to the thread I started
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Technical Board nominations
<MootBot> New Topic:  Technical Board nominations
<mdz> someone to provide a Debian point of view and liaison on technical issues which would benefit from coordination between the projects
<cjwatson> mdz: is this now ready for the vote to start?
<mdz> cjwatson: yes, has been for nearly two weeks
<cjwatson> whose action is this? sabdfl's, as TB admin?
<sabdfl> i can setup votes
<mdz> yes, sabdfl has in his mailbox the list of nominees who have agreed to stand for a vote
<cjwatson> [ACTION] sabdfl to create and announce TB vote
<MootBot> ACTION received:  sabdfl to create and announce TB vote
<mdz> sent 30 July, "Technical Board nominations"
<cjwatson> I'll skip DAB, covered earlier
<sabdfl> we have a vote process problem, in that LP is not setup to pick m of n
<sabdfl> i don't have a good solution
<cjwatson> also covered current archive reorganisation earlier (interviews in progress; seems that the bulk of people want to go for generalist access)
<cjwatson> sabdfl: set up devotee? O:-)
<mdz> surveymonkey? :-)
<jono> mdz, :-)
<Daviey> openid enabled django based voting site :)
<jono> lets keep it simple, surveymonkey seems ideal
<sabdfl> jono: how to restrict access?
<mdz> I was kidding...
<mdz> sabdfl: we would email each dev a link with a token
<sabdfl> mdz: fine by me, easy to script
<jono> mdz, really? seems like it could be suitable to recieve votes
<mdz> ok, I withdraw the joke and put it forward as a proposal :-)
<jono> sabdfl, you can invite specific email addresses
<sabdfl> jono: even better
<mdz> all we would need is a list of email addresses out of Launchpad to copy/paste into it
<sabdfl> easy
 * jono is victorious
<jono> :P
<sabdfl> ok, let's do that
<cjwatson> err, not to turn into an election methods nerd, but m-of-n votes are actually sort of non-trivial in terms of how the votes are resolved. I wasn't aware LP hadn't already settled this
<cjwatson> what voting method do we use?
<mdz> cjwatson: the simplest possible, I suppose...everyone chooses M out of N, and we tally the totals
<mdz> unless there's a voting widget
<cjwatson> so no transfers?
<Daviey> I raised in the previous meeting that, it was my memory that LP Polls only allowed a single selection of candidate.. Question, followed by X options.. with one vote.
<Keybuk> first past the post seems simple enough for our needs here
<sabdfl> there's no voting widget
<sabdfl> there are multiple choice (many options) but no way to constrain the number of choices made, afaics
<cjwatson> I guess that's OK, though I haven't thought about it deeply; if you guys think FPTP is OK then let's do that. (In fact it's really "not-last-past-the-post" since this is a 5-of-6 election isn't it?)
<sabdfl> first past the post would be horrible at the tail end, largely random
<mdz> sabdfl: if you're speaking of surveymonkey, you can limit the number of choices
<sabdfl> ok, i propose surveymonkey unless a better option jumps out of a quick google
<Keybuk> cjwatson: I've lost all grip on number of nominations and/or seats ;-)
<cjwatson> for 5-of-6 it means the loser will simply be the person whom most people don't select
<jono> I may be getting confused, but surely we just have a surveymonkey survey with one question with the candidates, open for a set time period and we invite all devs to choose one person
<jono> is it much more complex than that?
<sabdfl> jono: that would be terrible at the tail end
<cjwatson> oh, you want just *one* person per developer? that will be crap
<jono> sabdfl, what do you mean?
<mdz> jono: yes, we're trying to elect 5 people
<mdz> not just one
 * Keybuk thought we each voted for 5 people
<Keybuk> and thus the people/person who appeared in the least number of votes groups-of-5 would lose
<sabdfl> http://www.cs.cornell.edu/andru/civs.html
<mdz> Keybuk: yes, that's more what I was thinking
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.cs.cornell.edu/andru/civs.html
<jono> so the person with the lowest votes doenst get elected
<cjwatson> IOW the person whom most people don't select. That seems OK as long as each developer has five votes each
<mdz> jono: that would mean that each dev could only express an opinion about one candidate
<cjwatson> ooh, civs looks good
<jono> oh I see what you mean
<ScottK> civs is ideal for this kind of stuff
 * ScottK has used it in other projects.
<sabdfl> can we vote on that?
<mdz> civs looks good to me
<cjwatson> I wouldn't have wanted us to implement condorcet in a rush, but given an existing implementation it would be great
<Keybuk> I approve of civs
<cjwatson> [VOTE] use http://www.cs.cornell.edu/andru/civs.html for TB election
<MootBot> Please vote on:  use http://www.cs.cornell.edu/andru/civs.html for TB election.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<Keybuk> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Keybuk. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<sabdfl> it's described as not being super secure but i think it's fine for this purpose
<sabdfl> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from sabdfl. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<cjwatson> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<mdz> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from mdz. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<cjwatson> mm, it's "not super secure" as in "we have done a detailed security analysis and found the following holes" which is much better than any ad-hoc thing we might do
<Keybuk> ftr, we have 7 nominates for 5 seats
<sabdfl> yes, i think it's fine
<cjwatson> Keybuk: ah ok
<cjwatson> #endvote
<cjwatson> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<cjwatson> %!"Â£$ENDVOTE$Â£"!%
<Keybuk> /exec -o figlet [ENDVOTE]
<cjwatson> ok, neeeext
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Ubuntu security policies
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu security policies
<cjwatson> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Policies
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Policies
<mdz> kees showed this to me last week
<mdz> but I don't think he could make this meeting
<mdz> jdstrand: are you here?
<cjwatson> I just read this through and everything other than the executable-file stuff being discussed by mail seems fairly non-controversial, basically a codification of what we're already doing
<Keybuk> I've been talking with Kees and Marc via e-mail about the draft policy for the execute bit, which I feel is not as fully thought through as it should be
<Keybuk> the non-draft bits all look fine to me
<jdstrand> I am here
<cjwatson> I liked the thing you said at the end about the point being to stop MIME handlers subverting the execute bit
<mdz> basically, he wanted to document Ubuntu security policies which were not documented yet, and get that blessed by the TB
<mdz> and also to propose some new stuff
 * jdstrand reads backscroll
<mdz> i.e. the execute permission bit
<Keybuk> I remember we codified a security policy about mDNS, and which services were allowed to be published by default, etc. but I don't see that there
<mdz> jdstrand: just starting from <MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu security policies
<cjwatson> can we vote on the non-draft bits and get that out of the way?
<mdz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ZeroConfPolicySpec
<mdz> Keybuk: ^^
<cjwatson> any objections to a simple up/down on whether they're ok in bulk?
<Keybuk> mdz: that's the one, that should be linked from there too
<mdz> Keybuk: agreed
<Keybuk> cjwatson: don't see why not
<mdz> has anyone not read the document yet?
<mdz> I probably should have emailed it out in advance, but at least it's short
<cjwatson> Kees e-mailed it
<cjwatson> well, the URL
<mdz> oh, good
<cjwatson> [VOTE] Approve non-draft portions of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Policies
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Approve non-draft portions of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Policies.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<mdz> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from mdz. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<sabdfl> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from sabdfl. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<mdz> just for the record, this is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Policies?action=show we're voting on
<cjwatson> +1 (we might want to add to the mdns bits, but what's there is an OK start)
<MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<mdz> er, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Policies?action=recall&rev=15
<mdz> Keybuk: vote?
<Keybuk> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Keybuk. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<Keybuk> err
<Keybuk> I just managed to do /+1 ... bloody irssi
<mdz> cjwatson: the mdns bits are an earlier TB decision, so I think we can grandfather it in
<cjwatson> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<cjwatson> mdz: oh, before my time
<Keybuk> mdz: agree
<mdz> someone will need to dig up the reference
<Keybuk> I'd like an [ACTION] for somebody to add that to the document though, jdstrand perhaps as the person whose here? :p
<cjwatson> ok, so shall we continue the execute bit discussion by mail rather than here? it seems rather in-depth
<mdeslaur> I'm here also, btw
<cjwatson> [ACTION] jdstrand to add zeroconf reference from previous TB decision to security policies document
<MootBot> ACTION received:  jdstrand to add zeroconf reference from previous TB decision to security policies document
<jdstrand> Keybuk: I can add it
<jdstrand> well, I see I was already assigned it... :)
<mdz> I'm told that the contentious bit (no pun intended) of the execute permission policy is WINE
<cjwatson> you can delegate if you like, I just don't like assigning multiple people :)
<mdeslaur> mdz: wine and java
<cjwatson> mdz: and desktop files ...
<Keybuk> WINE and Java need the execute bit anyway when using the binfmt support
<mdz> cjwatson: who has an issue with .desktop files?
<Keybuk> the only reason they might not is if somebody's mucking around with MIME handlers and subverting the need for the +x
<Keybuk> mdz: desktop files are text files
<mdeslaur> Keybuk: that is currently the case
<Keybuk> if you make them executable, then doing ./foo.desktop will mean it's parsed by the shell
<mdz> Keybuk: then don't do that :-P
<Keybuk> a file manager or app that doesn't know *.desktop files are special will then start executing them *as shell scripts*
<sabdfl> on the TB election, any objections to running the vote from August 17-31st?
<Keybuk> (which they're clearly not)
<Keybuk> and the desktop file format doesn't permit a leading #! line
<cjwatson> Keybuk: (actually, that is overridable by binfmt_misc; whether that's a good idea is a different question)
<Keybuk> and even if it did, then there wouldn't be a generic way of handling them desktop-agnostically
<Keybuk> fundamentally this is abusing the +x bit ;-)
<Keybuk> also if you drag a *.desktop file out of Evolution and onto the Panel, that will make a Panel launcher for it
<Keybuk> it's not clear whether that requires +x
<mdeslaur> Keybuk: it doesn't :(
<cjwatson> sabdfl: ok by me
<Keybuk> (ie. the security or not of your system depends on your aim, and/or understanding of the difference between the panel and desktop)
<mdz> sabdfl: fine with me
<mdz> I agree with cjwatson that we should probably take this to email, we don't have time to cover it in depth here
<Keybuk> and it's then, on top of that, not clear what the UI of a non-+x launcher on the panel would be, and how you'd make it executable
<Keybuk> mdz: there's already a thread ;-)
<mdz> Keybuk: which I haven't read yet, because I was on holiday yesterday
<Keybuk> mdz: pah ;) I managed to _cause_ the thread while being on holiday <g>
<cjwatson> this is a discussion that's been going on literally for years anyway; I'm pretty sure I remember it coming up in 2005
<cjwatson> so indeed I doubt we're going to solve it right here right now; let's continue at more leisure
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Handling community problems
<MootBot> New Topic:  Handling community problems
<cjwatson> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReportingCommunityProblems
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReportingCommunityProblems
<cjwatson> this I regret to say I've only skimmed, but it seems basically reasonable. jono, do you want us to have a regular check on issues filed there (presumably we'll get them by mail anyway)?
<jono> cjwatson, I would prefer if the TB had a process to regularly check in with the assigned bugs list
<jono> much of this could be performed over email I assume
<jono> and then issues that require discussion could be moved to meetings
<mdz> my only comment, which I passed on to Jono already, is that we'll want to route more issues directly to delegate councils beyond the TB and CC as time goes on
<cjwatson> so let's add a link to the standing agenda, if it's empty it'll only take 15 seconds
<jono> mdz, yes indeed
<mdz> but I think it is reasonable to start with TB/CC/community team
<jono> I wanted to trial this with the CC and TB initially and then move to team councils
<mdz> cjwatson: agreed
<jono> cjwatson, sounds good
<jono> I am planning on doing an announcement soon
<jono> of the new process
<cjwatson> yes, as I said the other day about something else, I don't think the TB should necessarily be the body of first resort; we should be active, but it's corrosive to foster a culture where everybody just sits back and lets the TB decide
<jono> cjwatson, agreed
<jono> we should only pass on issues to the TB that fall within the mandate of the TB
<cjwatson> (which I don't think this is doing at the moment, for avoidance of doubt)
<sladen> jono: the links should probably go to launchpad.net, not edge.
<mdz> does anyone have an objection to Jono proceeding with this, or can we move on?
<jono> sladen, I will fix that
<Keybuk> no objection
<cjwatson> no objection
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Investigate alternative to Google CSE (305905, 402767)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Investigate alternative to Google CSE (305905, 402767)
<cjwatson> sladen requested that we look at this by mail, but nobody has yet taken it up
<Keybuk> what's Google CSE?
<mdz> Keybuk: custom search
<Keybuk> oh, didn't that just get dropped anyway?
<jono> thanks all
<Keybuk> I saw a -changes mail fly past
<cjwatson> I believe he's referring primarily to the multisearch widget in firefox
<mdz> Keybuk: the time-limited "experiment" was completed, but we still need to decide and implement the final experience for 9.10
<Keybuk> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/karmic-changes/2009-August/006000.html
<sladen> Keybuk: default browser page is  http://start.ubuntu.com/9.10/  which points to a Google CSE results, which isn't translated and doesn't have most of the additional features people associate with Google
<Keybuk> it doesn't look like the Ubuntu Desktop team are wedded to this implementation, and it looks like they're aware of the issues
<Keybuk> I don't think the TB need to intervene just yet
<mdz> sladen:  the desktop team is aware of the issues with it and is responsible for making sure the experience is good
<Keybuk> we should trust them to make the right calls, based on the feedback their "experiment" has given them
<cjwatson> sladen: have you spoken directly (pref. not via a bug) with the desktop team about this yet?
<sladen> cjwatson: regarding 402767, very much so.  Not sure 305905 is a desktop issue though, it's something that requires high-level Google<->Canonical interaction
<mdz> (point of order: 10 minutes left)
<cjwatson> I'm not in a position to know what's going on there at the moment, but when I was managing Alexander this was something I would have been involved in, so I'd be surprised if Rick Spencer weren't an appropriate contact for lots of this
<sabdfl> there was a discussion in each of the past two UDS's about search options, I expect there will be another discussion in November
<Keybuk> sladen: having spoken with the team, what made you feel that the TB needed to step in to resolve the issue?
<sabdfl> sladen: if you have new information for that, or suggestions, please contribute them
<mdz> sladen: that one is a desktop team issue as well
<Keybuk> it's not clear to me from the visible traffic on the ML and Bug that the desktop team haven't been taking concerns on board
<Keybuk> indeed, my reading in the last few minutes suggests they have
<cjwatson> I'm going to move on based on time, but we can continue this by mail as necessary
<sabdfl> i don't think the TB should be asked to go and explore options, since the desktop team are doing that now
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Statistics gathering policy
<MootBot> New Topic:  Statistics gathering policy
<sladen> cjwatson: I think the next issue is the important one
<sladen> yes, that one
<cjwatson> is this a direct outgrowth of the multisearch issue?
<mdz> presumably
<cjwatson> directly inspired by anyuway
<Keybuk> it's not clear to me who would be bound by such a policy
<sladen> it's hopefully a check-list of what's sane (technically and socially)
<Keybuk> for example, a mirror may be bound by the laws of their country to collect statistics about the use of that mirror
<sladen> Keybuk: that's passive collection
<cjwatson> I don't think it would be bad for us to document some advice to developers
<sladen> Keybuk: the policy/review request is focused on active statistics collection when added to the Ubuntu archive
<Keybuk> sladen: your text doesn't limit much of the policy to active collection
<cjwatson> however, I'm not a statistician; I know enough to know I don't know :-)
<Keybuk> this may be a mistake in the way you have drafted the text, but only 3.* would apply in the current format
<cjwatson> do we have any statisticians in the community who could advise?
<sladen> "I do not see a need for
<sladen> passive systems to be covered (or even have attention drawn to)"
<cjwatson> there is some overlap with usability testing, but it's not really the same thing; it's a much more precise art
<Keybuk> cjwatson: best way to find that out would be for sladen to post the text wider and have community input
<cjwatson> I do know that as a developer I have no real idea of how I'd go about gathering stats in anything other than an ad-hoc way, which does seem suboptimal
<sladen> Keybuk: okay, I can turn that draft into something more wide-ranging... I'm happy to run with it
<sabdfl> sladen: data gathered will not always be shared
<cjwatson> re point 1, time-based controls aren't necessarily bad ...
<sladen> sabdfl: mmm, I think the sharing of results is something that gains buy-in  (people willinging opting in)
<sladen> sabdfl: but I'd like to speak to you in more detail about that if I try and turn the draft/sugegstion into someting better
<sabdfl> sladen: agreed, nonetheless, i won't support a proposal that effectively binds Canonical to publish all of its data
<cjwatson> I don't think sladen's proposal as mailed does that, FWIW
<sladen> (I didn't think it did either)
<cjwatson> it indicates that the findings should be published, but I assume that in most cases we'd be acting on the findings anyway ...
<cjwatson> and certainly findings != all data
<cjwatson> anyway, we're up against the wall
<cjwatson> sladen: thanks for bringing this up, I'd like to see it get attention from statisticians
<cjwatson> the base-2 discussion is proceeding by mail and looks to be a healthy thread (and IIRC it's also something the TB has discussed in the past)
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] chair for next meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  chair for next meeting
<cjwatson> whose turn is it?
<Keybuk> that depends on whose on the board surely?
<mdz> I chaired the previous meeting iirc
<cjwatson> Keybuk: the next meeting is before the vote ends
<Keybuk> cjwatson: the vote was supposed to end and results be announced at the next meeting, no?
<cjwatson> 15:35 <sabdfl> on the TB election, any objections to running the vote from August 17-31st?
<cjwatson> so I think we're just going to run late
<Keybuk> oh, I missed that
<sabdfl> We don't need a full two weeks, I don't think
<cjwatson> eight days is a bit short
<Keybuk> two weeks seems a reasonable time
<cjwatson> particularly in the northern summer holidays
<cjwatson> so let's just stay with what sabdfl suggested and we'll just have an extra meeting with the current board
<sabdfl> +1
<Keybuk> mdz: Aren't you and I supposed to be somewhere the week of the next TB meeting?
<cjwatson> so I make it Keybuk's turn ... oh
<mdz> Keybuk: possibly, unconfirmed
<Keybuk> let's decide the chair via e-mail
<cjwatson> ok
<cjwatson> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:04.
<sabdfl> confirm - the election is for a two-year term?
<Keybuk> sabdfl: that's obviously up to you - but that's my understanding ;)
<sabdfl> i thought that's what we agreed, yes
<cjwatson> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/techboard says one year, and is well known for being superbly up to date ;-)
<cjwatson> so two years is fine by me ...
 * mathiaz waves at the ubuntu-server members
<sabdfl> and the list of voters is final, as in ubuntu-dev as at today?
<sabdfl> is the DMB processing applications before 17th?
 * nealmcb waves at mathiaz
<Keybuk> sounds reasonable
<sabdfl> ok
<Daviey> Server meeting?
<nijaba> Daviey: not started yet
<cjwatson> I think we're done
<mathiaz> cjwatson: great - thanks.
<mathiaz> let's get the ubuntu-server team rolling then
<mathiaz> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:08. The chair is mathiaz.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<soren> o/
<Daviey> \o
<ttx> o/
<zul> hi ho
<nijaba> o/
<mathiaz> today's agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<ivoks> greetings from http://www.init.hr/dev/2009-08-11-164518.jpg
 * sommer tentatively here
<Daviey> ivoks: nice.
<sommer> ivoks: haaa :)
<The_Toxic_Mite> Hello
<zul> ivoks: grumble grumble
<soren> ivoks: Where's that?
<mathiaz> last week minutes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20090804
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Asterisk
<MootBot> New Topic:  Asterisk
<mathiaz> Daviey: what's the state of the stack?
<Daviey> Okay.. i've built 1.6 in ppa
<mathiaz> Daviey: did you come up with a list of packages to be updated?
<mathiaz> Daviey: and which order?
<Daviey> https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-voip/+archive/asterisk-1.6-testing
<Daviey> pwlib as shown there, and openh323
<Daviey> without those being updated, asterisk will not get past the ./configure stage of the packaing build
<mathiaz> Daviey: are these packages in Debian unstable?
<Daviey> yes. although i used debian svn packaging iirc.. but yes, similar or same as unstable
<mathiaz> Daviey: AFAICT pwlib is not part of unstable
<soren> 1.10.10-3 is in unstable.
<soren> and testing.. :)
<mathiaz> ah right - my bad - I was doing an incorrect search
<Daviey> http://packages.debian.org/sid/libpt-1.10.10
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://packages.debian.org/sid/libpt-1.10.10
<mathiaz> Daviey: 1.10.10-2ubuntu3 is in karmic
 * ivoks has too big lag, so i can't participate in the meeting
<mathiaz> Daviey: is 1.10.10-3 required to build asterisk 1.6?
<Daviey> mathiaz: I'm not sure if the current binary is busted due to needing rebuilt, or if it needed upgrading.
<Daviey> rebuild*
<Daviey> hmm.. interesting.. http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/universe/o/openh323/openh323_1.18.0.dfsg-9build1/changelog <-- openh323 was another issue.. and that has just been rebuilt
<Daviey> so that is probably no longer an issue
<mathiaz> Daviey: does that mean that all build dependency of asterisk 1.6 are there in karmic?
<Daviey> pwlib needs either upgrading or a rebuild
<Daviey> I'm not sure which tbh.. i think it is a merge it needs.
<Daviey> we last merged ~23 Jun 2008
<mathiaz> Daviey: why is the current pwlib package broken in karmic?
<Daviey> When trying to build asterisk against it, it complains of MANY BOOL linker errors
<Daviey> considering debian are quite active (http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/p/pwlib/pwlib_1.10.10-3/changelog), ours would seem quite stale.
<mathiaz> Daviey: right. I'm not sure I completly understand what debian did in their last upload.
<mathiaz> Daviey: I'm not sure that merging is the best option as it seems it may require a library transition
<mathiaz> DaNEW Package libpt-dev -> libpt-1.10.10-dev & libpt-1.10.10-doc
<mathiaz> It seems that the pwlib package state needs to be sorted out first
<mathiaz> in order to be able to build asterisk correctly
<mathiaz> Daviey: is the pwlib package from the ubuntu-voip team a straight rebuild of Debian?
<Daviey> hmm
<mathiaz> Daviey: or does it contain the ubuntu diff?
<Daviey> straight build from Debian
<mathiaz> Daviey: right - so I'd suggest to look into a merge of pwlib
<mathiaz> Daviey: may be the ubuntu patches have been integrated in debian
<mathiaz> Daviey: or figure out why the current version of karmic is broken and try to fix it
<mathiaz> Daviey: contact the last ubuntu uploader and merger could be helpfull
<Daviey> mathiaz: tbh, we (as in Ubuntu) don't do a whole lot for the Asterisk stuff.
<mathiaz> Daviey: I'd also recommend to delete openh323 from the PPA
<mathiaz> Daviey: to make sure it's not needed in karmic.
<Daviey> well i'll experiment building locally, and repush a good result.
<mathiaz> Daviey: ok.
<mathiaz> Anything else to add on this topic?
<Daviey> http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/universe/a/asterisk/asterisk_1.4.21.2~dfsg-3ubuntu2/changelog <-- the last *ubuntu upload was from a debian.org email address :)
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/universe/a/asterisk/asterisk_1.4.21.2~dfsg-3ubuntu2/changelog <-- the last *ubuntu upload was from a debian.org email address :)
<Daviey> Hmm
<Daviey> i was hoping the other chap would have been online..
<mathiaz> ok - let's move on
<Daviey> ok
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Server tips : implementation
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server tips : implementation
 * Daviey needs a rest :)
<mathiaz> any report on the packaging effort?
<Daviey> yep
<Daviey> I've made a basic package, and put it in a PPA
<nijaba> \o/
<Daviey> I've created a LP project, and a LP Team
<mathiaz> Daviey: links?
<Daviey> https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-server-tips
<Daviey> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-server-tips
<nijaba> Thanks Daviey
<Daviey> Currently i am the owner, although i am aware it's not my project really.. and i am happy to hand over ownership to whoever wants it.
<Daviey> or rather, the server teamw ants
<Daviey> https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-server-tips/+archive/ppa <-- basic package
<Daviey> and the source is in bzr
<Daviey> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-server-tips/ubuntu-server-tips/fortunes-ubuntu-server-tips
<mathiaz> Daviey: great.
<mathiaz> What's the next step then?
<Daviey> I need to introduce translations.. and i am happy that won't be too much of an issue
<nijaba> mathiaz: test and upload?
<mathiaz> To get a new package in the archive: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages
<Daviey> fortune doesn't have native support for other languages.. however, it won't be a major issue.. we just request it in a slightl;y different way
<nijaba> Daviey: you can count on me for testing.  I've just sent a request to join the team so that I'll get email from the ml
<Daviey> I was thinking of including a shell script to get a locale fortune, with the package.. comments?
<Daviey> nijaba: it's your pet project, do you want to be the team owner?
<nijaba> Daviey: I don't care, but if you feel more confortable that way, go ahead
<Daviey> i'm easy :)  either way.. I just don't want to tred on your toes.
<mathiaz> Daviey: there were some discussions about integrating with update-motd
<nijaba> Daviey: not even close to my toes :P
<mathiaz> it seems that more testing from the PPA can be done at this stage.
<mathiaz> anything else to add on this topic?
<Daviey> mathiaz: yeah.. so should my package ship the script to return a locale correct (or default to english if no translation), or should that be seperate?
<mathiaz> Daviey: I don't know for now. It may be better to ask the question on the ubuntu-server@ ml outlining what the issue is.
<Daviey> As in.. should that script incluide the update-motd magic?
<mathiaz> let's move on as we have other things to talk about
<Daviey> wilco
<mathiaz> anything related to last week minutes?
<mathiaz> nope - let's move on.
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Update Ebox to 1.3
<MootBot> New Topic:  Update Ebox to 1.3
<mathiaz> zul: ^^?
<zul> so javier sent a launchpad request to update ebox to version 1.3 and i thought it would be a good idea since we tell people to use ebox for a server gui
<zul> and the version we had in jaunty was quite old
<zul> i hope javier would be here to explain it more but I dont think he is
<davmor2> zul: 0.12
<zul> yes its old
<Daviey> old, but still working.. or old as in busted?
<soren> He's on his way.
<zul> old as in not shiney
<foolano> hi guys
<soren> o/
<soren> :)
<foolano> yeah, i filed the bugs to request an upgrade.
<davmor2> I've had a quick play with the 1.2 version from the site and it has loadsa features that are missing from the ubuntu repo version
<foolano> i'll request sponsorship during this week
<foolano> i've the packages ready i just need to polish a few things
 * nealmcb waves at foolano
<zul> foolano: ill volunteer to upload them for you
<foolano> zul: great :)
<Daviey> \o/
<foolano> they'll be ready during this week for sure
<zul> sure just ping me when they are ready for review
<foolano> zul: and i expect not to nag you very often afterwards ;)
<zul> \o/
<foolano> i'll follow the usual sponsorship process, and i'll ping you when it's ready :)
<mathiaz> [ACTION] foolano to prepare new ebox packages for review
<MootBot> ACTION received:  foolano to prepare new ebox packages for review
<mathiaz> great - anything else on this topic?
<foolano> just one more thing
<foolano> i can email the ubuntu-server list to tell you guys the new modules we have developed, and see if there is some interest to upload some of them
<mathiaz> foolano: seems like a good plan
<foolano> great :)
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] SRU weekly review
<MootBot> New Topic:  SRU weekly review
<Daviey> mathiaz: Did you get the method of getting a http list of SRU packages related top -server?
<Daviey> s/top/to/
<mathiaz> there is a new section in the Knowledge base about the SRU process.
<mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase#SRU%20resources
<mathiaz> and here is the list of bugs that have been fixed release last week:
<mathiaz> http://people.canonical.com/~mathiaz/multi-package-bug-reports-fix-released.ubuntu-server.2009-08-10.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~mathiaz/multi-package-bug-reports-fix-released.ubuntu-server.2009-08-10.html
<mathiaz> ttx: ^^
 * Daviey pleased.
 * ttx looks
<mathiaz> ttx: let's go throught the list
<mathiaz> and nominate relevant ones
<ttx> sure.
 * zul raises his hand for vblade
<mathiaz> bug 407324
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 407324 in freeradius "/etc/init.d/freeradius stop don't work" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/407324
<mathiaz> ^^ seems like a good candidate for SRU
<ttx> mathiaz: maybe we should filter out wishlist items ?
<mathiaz> if it can verified for hardy
<mathiaz> ttx: if you click on importance it will be sorted
<mathiaz> ttx: by importance
<ttx> makes sense :)
<mathiaz> ttx: bug 385475?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 385475 in likewise-open5 "[Karmic] Likewise-Open 5 fails to authenticate users" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/385475
<ttx> not, this is karmic-only
<ttx> regression due to krb-1.7 different gssapi
<mathiaz> ttx: ok
<mathiaz> bug 223440
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 223440 in vblade "vblade discovery doesn't work" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/223440
<mathiaz> bug 223387
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 223387 in vblade "vblade doesn't create /var/run/vblade" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/223387
<mathiaz> ^^ these two seem SRU worthy
<mathiaz> zul: ^^?
<Daviey> Thanks for taking care of them zul
<mathiaz> Daviey: to be clear - this process is just to accept bugs
 * ttx realizes we should have a look at the list *before* the meeting
<mathiaz> Daviey: it doesn't mean that they will be fixed
<ttx> and propose our favorites during the meeting
<Daviey> oh sure.
<mathiaz> Daviey: there is still a lot of work that needs to be done
<mathiaz> Daviey: and anyone can participate
<mathiaz> We're just going through the list of fixed released bug from last week to make sure relevant are considered for SRU
<mathiaz> it doesn't mean that they will end up as an SRU
<ttx> yes, the vblade stuff seems a good candidate
<ttx> as is the freeradius stop one
<mathiaz> so it seems that bug 223440, bug 223387, bug 407324 are SRU worthy
 * ScottK waves
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 223440 in vblade "vblade discovery doesn't work" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/223440
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 223387 in vblade "vblade doesn't create /var/run/vblade" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/223387
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 407324 in freeradius "/etc/init.d/freeradius stop don't work" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/407324
<mathiaz> for which release?
<ttx> well, I'll let zul comment on the vblade ones
<ttx> the issue is, we need to reproduce them before nominating them, I guess
<mathiaz> ttx: I don't think so
<mathiaz> ttx: we just need to track them
<nealmcb> mathiaz: I like that list and process a lot!  http://people.canonical.com/~mathiaz/multi-package-bug-reports-fix-released.ubuntu-server.2009-08-10.html
<mathiaz> ttx: part of the SRU process is to be able to reproduce it
<zul> the ones selected right should be SRUable
<mathiaz> ttx: if it's not possible to create a good SRU report then we'll remove the bug from the accepted bugs
<mathiaz> it seems that we still need to decide for which release they should nominated
<ttx> then I'd do hardy for both.
<mathiaz> ttx: both == all the three bugs?
<ttx> yes
<ttx> zul: the vblade bugs importance isn't set
<mathiaz> ttx: ok - I'll nominate all the three bugs for hardy
<mathiaz> ttx: and accept them
<ttx> so the idea is tat everyone should review the list ahead of the meeting and propose his favorites in the meeting. this is not just a game between mathiaz and me :)
<zul> heh
<ttx> We'll also review nominations on server packages in general, we just miss the report as of now.
<mathiaz> ttx: right. We're missing a couple of reports/bug lists for now
<ttx> well, zul played too.
<nijaba> could mathiaz add the list to the server meeting announce, asking for people to review prior to the meeting?
<ttx> nijaba: good idea
<mathiaz> nijaba: sure - I can update the mailing list announcement
<ttx> "SRU poker"
<mathiaz> Right - so I've nominated the three bugs
<mathiaz> next week I'll try to get the other list done
<mathiaz> (the list of server bugs nominated for supported releases)
<nijaba> ttx: I don't have a translation for "Pouilleux Masacreur (de bug)", but it is more like it :D
<mathiaz> and also the accepted candidates list
<mathiaz> so that we can review the state of all the SRUs
<mathiaz> [ACTION] mathiaz to create the list of server bugs nominated for supported releases
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz to create the list of server bugs nominated for supported releases
<mathiaz> [ACTION] mathiaz to create the accepted candidates list
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz to create the accepted candidates list
<mathiaz> [ACTION] mathiaz to include the bugs lists in the meeting annoucement
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz to include the bugs lists in the meeting annoucement
<mathiaz> anything else on the topic of SRU mgmt?
 * Daviey is happy.. that is all
<mathiaz> ok - let's wrap up
<Daviey> Before we wrap up the meeting, can i throw one more thing out there?  For ubuntu-server-tips.. we needs many more suggestions.. it's kinda sparse at the moment.
<Daviey> sparse = boring and perhaps useless.
<mathiaz> Daviey: right - I'd suggest to ask for more contributions on the ubuntu-server@ ml and may be a blog post
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time
<Daviey> mathiaz: wilco
<mathiaz> same time, same place, next week?
<ttx> worksforme
<Daviey> !wfm | ttx
<ubottu> ttx: Common Sense: Just because you can, does not mean you should (and especially recommend to others). Think before you do. "Works for me" does not mean it is ok. The latest version of everything is not always useful if you aim for stability. Please see http://geekosophical.net/random/worksforme/
<Daviey> :)
<mathiaz> all right then
<ttx> Daviey: I didn't mean it's OK for everyone, just that it's ok for me.
<mathiaz> same time same place next week
<mathiaz> and don't forget we're gearing up for alpha4 this thursday
<Daviey> ttx: i know.. :)
<mathiaz> testing is welcome
<mathiaz> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:07.
<ttx> Thanks mathiaz !
<Daviey> o/
<bjf> **
<bjf> ** Roll Call **
<bjf> **
 * manjo waves
 * apw zones in
 * rtg scans the crowd
 * ogasawara waves
<bjf> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:00. The chair is bjf.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
 * pgraner waves
<bjf> This week we are without smb
 * lieb here
<apw> cking sends his appologies
<bjf> not sure if sconklin will be back from doctor and cking is not available
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Action Items: (apw) Check up on drdb status in dkms package and kernel
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Action Items: (apw) Check up on drdb status in dkms package and kernel
<apw> thats still pending ...
<bjf> will leave it as an open action item
<apw> ack
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
 * amitk is here
<bjf> [TOPIC] Karmic Release Status: Bugs (Release Meeting Bugs / RC Milestoned Bugs / Release Targeted Bugs)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Karmic Release Status: Bugs (Release Meeting Bugs / RC Milestoned Bugs / Release Targeted Bugs)
<ogasawara> Release Meeting Bugs (3 bugs) - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<ogasawara> RC Milestoned Bugs Alpha 4 (0 bugs) - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+bugs?field.milestone=12712
<ogasawara> Release Targeted Bugs (8 bugs) - https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/linux
<ogasawara> Milestoned Features - https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/karmic-alpha-4
<bjf> [TOPIC] Karmic Release Status: Milestoned Features
<MootBot> New Topic:  Karmic Release Status: Milestoned Features
<bjf> already handled
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-hwdb-workshop (ogasawara)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-hwdb-workshop (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> bjf: not much new.  hwdb profiles profiles currently contain both hw data and test results.  This information will now be separated.
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-kms (apw)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-kms (apw)
<apw> KMS on intel is still getting quite a lot of updates, a lot as a result of testing by the X team, looking pretty good still.  KMS on ATI Radeon is improving, we now have a PPA with a KMS kernel and c-o-d mesa to support it, testing is ongoing.  Noveau is not planned for Karmic but we continue to offer updated kernels for testing, no mesa support as yet.
<apw> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-new-kernel-on-lts (rtg)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-new-kernel-on-lts (rtg)
<rtg> I'm getting close to starting to think about LTS backports again. No real progress since the last meeting
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-review-of-non-upstreamed-code (smb)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-review-of-non-upstreamed-code (smb)
<rtg> I have, however, had siome encouragement from the highest levels
<manjo> bjf, smb is on vaction
 * apw has an update
<bjf> will wait for smb to get back
<apw> This was re-reviewed at sprint and is now mostly complete.  We are going to drop the Thinkpad modules as they are of dubious provenance.  We are dropping appleir as that is now upstream.  Much of the remaining noise is disabled packages and those will be removed at beta as they are not needed.
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-android (coolony)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-android (coolony)
<bjf> I know brian has been doing a little work here
 * rtg wonders if android is relevant anymore?
<manjo> bjf, coolony is on vaction
<bjf> I'm not sure of the overall progress
<bjf> manjo, thanks
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-sponsoring-staging-drivers (smb)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-sponsoring-staging-drivers (smb)
<bjf> more smb
<pgraner> Anything that is not made progress by feature freeze drops out
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-suspend-resume (manjo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-suspend-resume (manjo)
<pgraner> bjf: I thought this one was closed
<manjo> We did a HW compatibility test with live USB keys in dublin platform sprint, fou
<manjo> nd 18 suspend resume isses. Many of them attributed to bluetooth and some to bad
<manjo>  bios. cking as good debug notes on how to debug suspend resume issues.
<manjo> suspend resume logs will be auto-rotated like other logs, and apport will report
<manjo>  bugs based on frequency of failure (TBD).
<manjo> Suspend resume will be tested again at the atlanta linux fest, working on produc
<rtg> lieb is doing some staging work (last I heard)
<manjo> ing updated USB keys for ALF.
<pgraner> manjo: who has the action for log rotation and the like?
<bjf> [ACTION] bjf to look to verify " kernel-karmic-sponsoring-staging-drivers " is closed and remove it from future agenda
<MootBot> ACTION received:  bjf to look to verify " kernel-karmic-sponsoring-staging-drivers " is closed and remove it from future agenda
<lieb> yes I am on the vt665x drivers
<manjo> pgraner, I talked to cjwatson... and opened a bug
<pgraner> manjo: cool thx
<pgraner> bjf: the staging stuff we can drop off this meeting going fwd... any objections?
<bjf> pgraner, ack
<apw> nope
 * rtg is tired of seeing the staging egenda item
<pgraner> bjf: make is so
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-wifi (rtg)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-wifi (rtg)
 * pgraner is tired of seeing this one ;-)
<rtg> the last remaining rfkill fix is upstream, should help acpi-support to close their bugs
<manjo> pgraner, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rsyslog/+bug/410352
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 410352 in rsyslog "pm-suspend.log needs to be rotated. " [Undecided,New]
<rtg> lets take wifi off the agenda also
 * pgraner nods
<bjf> rtg, ack
<bjf> [ACTION] bjf, remove kernel-karmic-wifi from agenda
<MootBot> ACTION received:  bjf, remove kernel-karmic-wifi from agenda
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-better-power-mgt (amitk)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-better-power-mgt (amitk)
<amitk> No-op for this one. I won't have bandwidth to work on this for this cycle it seems.
<rtg> another topic to drop from the agenda
<pgraner> bjf: drop it
<bjf> [ACTION] bjf, drop "kernel-karmic-better-power-mgt" from agenda
<MootBot> ACTION received:  bjf, drop "kernel-karmic-better-power-mgt" from agenda
<bjf> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: AppArmor (jjohansen)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: AppArmor (jjohansen)
<bjf> jj, ??
<jjohansen> There are a few bugs, that were raised by the security team last week
<jjohansen> otherwise it is looking good
<bjf> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: ARM-Freescale (amitk, bjf)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: ARM-Freescale (amitk, bjf)
<bjf> I'm working through Marvell build isses.
<bjf> issues even
 * rtg uploaded Freescale yesterday
<amitk> freescale kernel is now in the archive.
<amitk> rtg worked through the last of the packaging issues.
<bjf> Marvell has made further updates to their tree which I will get to after resolving the build issues
<amitk> I am working on fixing USB and ethernet (fec) bugs for Karmic now
<bjf> I've sent email to Marvell about the problems building, but am not waiting for them to fix
<bjf> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: Union Mount Solution (apw)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: Union Mount Solution (apw)
<bjf> should this stay on the agenda?
<apw> Seems to be holding up under testing so far.  No updates.
<apw> I am thinking its business as usual with it now
<pgraner> bjf: remove
<rtg> we've pretty well settled on AUFS, so union mounts are moot.
<apw> ACK
<cjwatson> pgraner: (I don't really have the action for rsyslog at the moment - no bandwidth just now - but I targeted the bug for karmic so that it's not forgotten)
<cjwatson> err, for logrotate
<pgraner> cjwatson: thanks for the update
<bjf> [ACTION] bjf, remove "union mount solution" from agenda
<MootBot> ACTION received:  bjf, remove "union mount solution" from agenda
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Karmic (rtg, apw)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Karmic (rtg, apw)
<amitk> bjf: If you could push the current state of your local tree to kernel.u.c, I can try to help with marvell compilation issues
<bjf> amitk, ack
<apw> we are rebased to -rc5 and expecting a new rc shortly ...
<rtg> bjf, no serious issues for Karmic. A4 looks to be on track.
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Netbook (sconklin, apw)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Netbook (sconklin, apw)
<apw> we have released a kernel update for jaunty, and also have changed some process
<apw> all progressing well.
<rtg> apw, what are the issues for the netbook branch in Jaunty LBM ?
<rtg> (if any)
<apw> nothing i am aware of currently...
<apw> i don't think we have a full netbook test implementation as yet, so those are yet to come
<rtg> apw, seems like the OEM team wants to use LBM on one of their platforms.
<apw> ok will check up on it
<rtg> apw, I think we'll have to crack a branch for that
<apw> yeah best to have a branch empty or not if they need it
<rtg> for ABI sync and all of that noise
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Regressions (ogasawara)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Regressions (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> 7 regression bugs were reported.  1 is currently invalid.  apw and I have reviewed the rest to isolate the cause of each regression.
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (ogasawara)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> We skipped the last bug day so there's nothing to report.  The next bug day will be Tues Aug 18.
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
<bjf> 1
<bjf> 2
<bjf> [TOPIC] Next Meeting Chair: Colin King
<MootBot> New Topic:  Next Meeting Chair: Colin King
<bjf> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:22.
<manjo> thanks bjf
<lieb> bye
<apw> bjf thanks
<lieb> here here
<Riddell> good evening friends
 * ScottK waves
<Riddell> kubuntu meeting time?
<ScottK> Yep
<maco> holas
<Riddell> apachelogger, rgreening, seele, Nightrose   council ping
<seele> Riddell: pong
<yuriy_work> hi all
<ryanakca> Hi
 * Nightrose waves
<Riddell> bit of an agenda here https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings
<Riddell> anyone here for membership?
<Riddell> let's crack on then
<Riddell> "Review/Approved Kubuntu Netbook plan"
<Riddell> ScottK: you item
<ScottK> It's mostly in place now
<ScottK> The idea is to have the kde4libs/kdebase/kdeplasma-addons patching done by FF.
<ScottK> Plasma-netbook itself will stay in heavy development probably until beta
<Riddell> I added plasma-netbook to the seed as you noticed, hope that's ok, but it is the main feature so I think it's important to get testing in
<ScottK> I want to make sure the KC and everyone is cool with htaqt
<ScottK> that even
<ScottK> Riddell: I also did the kubunt-meta upload so it should be on tomorrow's ISO
<Riddell> dunno what happened to my upload of that
<Riddell> I'll make some ISOs tonight for early testing probably
<ScottK> People who want a traditional plasma, but the enhanced smallness for a netbook can do a regular desktop install and then install k-n-d-s
<ScottK> Questions?
<Riddell> it would be nice to have a GUI way to chose which plasma shell to start
<Nightrose> ScottK: how much space is currently required for the netbook remix? i currently (again) can't upgrade my install because the 4 gig hard disk is maxed - are small hard disk taken into account currently?
<Riddell> although that's not very important, the main way to chose would be by install media
<seele> ScottK: you might want to consider changing some other defaults, such as removing status bars from some applications and maybe reverting to icon only toolbars
<seele> so things fit better
<ScottK> Nightrose: It should be ~ the same as desktop for disk space.
<ScottK> plasma-netbook is lighter though and runs noticeably faster on netbooks
 * ScottK is using it rightnow
<Nightrose> ok - any plans to drop a few dependencies?
<ScottK> seele: Agreed.
<ScottK> We dropped the ones that obviously didn't make sense
 * Riddell would be happy to drop openoffice
 * ScottK is open to suggestions
<apachelogger> +1 on dropping ooo :P
<ScottK> Riddell: We kind of need that I think
<apachelogger> ScottK: did you remove ksystemlog yet?
<ScottK> apachelogger: I don't think so
<ScottK> apachelogger: No.
<ScottK> It should go.
<Riddell> I tried to factor out the seeds into a common one but failed, I'll probably look at that again sometime since colin said it worked for him
<ScottK> +1 on common seeds
<apachelogger> +1
<ScottK> Especially if I don't have to do it.
<ScottK> KNE should be a chance for upstream to showcase the power of plasma on netbooks.  We are dependent on them delivering a more complete plasma-netbook.
<ScottK> Any other questions?
<apachelogger> and usable
<ScottK> Yes
<Riddell> we should discuss the OO question sometime (but not today I think)
<apachelogger> Riddell: well, we have no replacement, do we?
<ScottK> OK
<ScottK> kate ftw
<ScottK> apachelogger: No.  We don't.
<Riddell> no sign of andreas-wenning on "Status on Qt 4.5.2 and KDE 4.3.0 in jaunty-backports"
<Riddell> ScottK: know anything about that?
<ScottK> Riddell: I'm a little nervous about a Qt backport.  I think we need to test outside a KDE environment
 * ScottK recalls that not going well before.
<seele> (brb 3 minutes, switching laundry)\
<Riddell> Qt backport is not ideal, although it seems to be what's expected of us by upstream (it includes a load of security fixes)
<ScottK> well a backport doesn't help on security.
<maco> i thought since netbooks are mainly online-service terminals, Google Apps or Writely would be what people used...
<Nightrose> -1 maco
<Nightrose> (at least I do)
<apachelogger> maco: that doesn't mean that they will not be off from time to time
<Nightrose> eh
<Nightrose> +1
<ScottK> maco: One differentiation between us and Google is that while we want to support that, we don't want to support only that.
<maco> ok
<ScottK> The smallest netbook HD I've seen recently is 8GB ssd.  I'm not particularly focused on installed size.
 * Nightrose has 4 gb :(
<ScottK> 4GB is tight
<Nightrose> it is very tight
<apachelogger> good thing we got LZMA :P
<Nightrose> which is why i was hpoing for the netbook remix to be lighter
 * ScottK did install and run in a 4gb partition for testing.
<apachelogger> Nightrose: I don't see how we could make it much lighter
<ScottK> Nightrose: OK.  Let's take the discussion out of the meeting and talk about what can go.
<Nightrose> ok
 * ScottK grumbles about mysql on a netbook.
<Riddell> then the big topic is "Default apps: web browser"
<Nightrose> apachelogger: well i could get rid of all of kontact for example
<Nightrose> don't use it on the netbook
<Nightrose> same for ooo
<Nightrose> but yea - later
<ScottK> Riddell: My suggestion is don't decide yet.
<ScottK> Arora is better behaved recently.
<Riddell> ScottK: will things change in the future to let us make a better decision?
<Nightrose> my suggestion: stick with konqueror if we will go back for karmik+1
<ScottK> Are we expecting any new arora releases?
 * Nightrose hates switching
<apachelogger> +1
<ScottK> Arora seems to be moving pretty quickly, so I think beta is the right time to decide for sure.
<seele> so what happens when konqueror gets fixed in the next year.. will we switch again?
<maco> does arora work with swfdec/gnash yet?
<apachelogger> arora will never get as tight KDE integration as konqueror gets... so
<ScottK> seele: I would say yes, but I also think the risk of that is low.
<Riddell> seele: I think so yes since that would be the best option, but I think it's important to be able to browse useful websites in the mean time
<seele> how large is the aurora development team? when i first heard of it, it was just one guy
<ScottK> apachelogger: This is true, but it's primary purpose is to browse web pages.  It needs to do that.
<apachelogger> well, I said it before, and I will repeat myself
<apachelogger> if we want to get best browsing experience we _need_ to go with firefox
<seele> yes
<maco> i dont like the idea of a default browser that doesnt work with the free flash implementations
<Nightrose> +1 on firefox
<maco> making users choose between default and non-free?
<ScottK> apachelogger: Well we didn't have the netbook discussion today.
<apachelogger> I mean generally
<apachelogger> the argument that arora renders better than konqueror is quite bogus since firefox renders better than arora for sure
<maco> i prefer firefox too...and the theming stuff can make it match alright...
<ScottK> FF won't fit on the CD for desktop
<apachelogger> ScottK: we currently have half the GTK stack on the CD due to packagekit
<apachelogger> so I am quite confident firefox will fit on it as well
<ScottK> Well we'd need the other half
<claydoh> I say stick with Konqueror for now, no one seems to have aproblem with installing ff on their own
<ScottK> Although if we go that way we should add blueman too.
<maco> apachelogger: theoretically, webkit renders better than gecko and has more pretty effects and is faster. in my usage, firefox is faster.
<seele> can we add a link in the kmenu that says firefox and then the first time someone clicks it, it installs it?
<maco> packagekit pulled in gtk? why?
<apachelogger> qwebkit != webkit archive-wise
<apachelogger> qwebkit got issues of its own AFAIK
<maco> apachelogger: yeah thats how it seems...
<apachelogger> seele: could do, but do we want that?
<seele> apachelogger: save space on the netbook yet still offer an easy way to get a good browser without having to go through kpackagekit?
<ScottK> Kind of like the non-free helpers for Kaffeine
<maco> umm...my plasma just switched from the pretty light grey theme to a black one
<seele> the premise of the netbook is that it is something small and light and has internet access
<maco> without me telling it to
<ryanakca> ScottK: Won't fit even without the recommends?
<apachelogger> seele: well, we could squeeze firefox on teh netbook since the space constraint is not as low
<Riddell> I really havn't found any webpages that firefox does better than arora
<ScottK> apachelogger: What was the google thing?
<apachelogger> google gears
<maco> Riddell: have you checked the spreadubuntu site? ;)
<apachelogger> kind of like a offline stoarge for websites
<seele> what user agent does arora have configured? banking sites might be a problem if they are checking for IE, Firefox, Safari specifically
<apachelogger> so gmail can be synced offline, which means that you still have access to the interface and mails etc.
<maco> id call it safari
<Riddell> seele: webkit/safari
<yuriy_work> Riddell: neither arora nor konqueror show guitar chords placed correctly, FF does
<seele> does it pass the acid2 test?
 * seele doesnt remember if webkit does or not
<apachelogger> seele: on that regard: since my bank requries JAVA and arora apparently doesn't wanna use that plugin ...
<maco> webkit was the first o
<maco> *to
<ScottK> It seems clear there is no consensus.  I think the KC should decide if they are going to decide today.
<apachelogger> webkit != qwebkit
<maco> seele: webkit passes all acid tests. no others do
<yuriy_work> I don't think arora really fixes anything for us compared to firefox
<yuriy_work> it's even more of a memory hog
<maco> apachelogger: whats better qwebkit or webkitgtk?
<maco> yeah um arora is slow
<apachelogger> I wouldn't know
<apachelogger> in either case qwebkit is a snapshot of webkit source with Qt stuff
<apachelogger> so whatever applies to webkit might or might not apply to Qt's webkit
<Riddell> well
 * rgreening is back.. sorry had a conf call
<Riddell> shall we decide before beta then as ScottK suggested?
<apachelogger> +1
<seele> what is going to change?
<seele> a few bugs which aren't why we want to -1 arora in the first place?
<Riddell> hopefully stuff like a password manager which is pretty important
<apachelogger> also +1
<rgreening> +1
<ScottK> We should also have KDE 4.3.1 so Konqueror should be better too
<apachelogger> Riddell: that still is worth nothing if it is not kwallet
<apachelogger> ...and since the xdg wallet is not yet available...
<seele> i dont think anything theyre doing to fix konqueror is going to be out in 4.3.1
<Riddell> apachelogger: it's planned to be the new kwallet/gnome cross desktop one
<rgreening> Is it something we can backport?
<seele> they arent even blogging about what they started working on because they dont want to provide any time expectations
<apachelogger> Riddell: and that will be reliably by the time of beta?
 * seele would like to see it for 4.4 but no one knows
<seele> is firefox going to support the new wallet?
 * apachelogger got funny grammar today :D
<apachelogger> seele: unlikely, firefox is made for windows
 * ScottK just tried to access a http auth protected web site with arora and totally failed.
<Riddell> firefox won't look at it yet
<seele> i wonder how hard it would be to write a plugin to support the wallet and then ship it by default
<rgreening> any plugin api documentated to work from?
<rgreening> if it's documented, kwallet, adblock, etc would be good to start
<yuriy_work> are there bugs filed upstream for the problems with konqueror that make this all an issue in the first place?
<apachelogger> arora does not support native plugins!?
<apachelogger> only nsplugins
<rgreening> yuk
<rgreening> show stopper
<apachelogger> and TBH I have only seen flash work
<apachelogger> as mentioned earlier JAVA fails for me completely
<rgreening> flash works sometimes in arora in my experience. About as much as in konq
<Riddell> flash works just as well for me in arora as in any other browser (not great, no sound)
 * apachelogger got sounds \\o/
<yuriy_work> I would like to see a list of bugs in konq that motivate the need for another browser
<Riddell> yuriy_work: slashdot doesn't work
<apachelogger> yuriy_work: query bugs.kde.org
<apachelogger> there are a lot of bugs
<maco> free flash doesnt work!
<maco> oinly non-free
<apachelogger> but they might not be valid anymore
<apachelogger> ...
<Riddell> let's move on, we can decide at beta
 * apachelogger would like to take a vote though :P
<Riddell> apachelogger: a vote without deciding?
<seele> a vote to vote later?
<apachelogger> what seele said... I'd just like to do some vote ;-)
<Riddell> apachelogger: err ok, propose a vote then
<apachelogger> Switch to Arora as default browser on the desktop CD +1/-1?
<Nightrose> -1
<Riddell> +1
<apachelogger> -1
<seele> -1
<yuriy_work> apachelogger: a lot yes, but what specifically are the blockers
<claydoh> -1
<rgreening> -1
<ryanakca> -1
<yuriy_work> -1
<seele> 4 to 1 ouch
<ryanakca> even though I'm not in the council ;)
<rgreening> sorry Riddell :(
<apachelogger> one thing less to discuss at beta time
<Riddell> I note ScottK hasn't voted :)
<rgreening> I've been using it default, but no adblock, no wallet are show stoppers for me.
 * ScottK isn't on KC and doesn't have a strong opinion
<seele> ScottK declined to run for council for a reason ;)
<rgreening> heh
<Riddell> so unless things change notably by beta time that seems fairly decided
<ScottK> Now I'd have to say no, but who knows what gets fixed
<Riddell> shall we move onto the next controvertial topic?
<apachelogger> yes!
<ScottK> So switch it back?
<apachelogger> that is fun :D
<Riddell> default IRC client anyone?
<seele> how many of the requests have the quassel team gotten through?
<maco> it still says Buffer
<seele> i saw somewhere tehy were going to try an amarok patch to get rid of some of the lines?
<ScottK> I say wait until feature freeze as they are planning on releasing 0.5 before then
<Nightrose> +1 ScottK
<maco> that thing that lets you watch all channels at once is the thing i think is totally-awesome about quassel
<apachelogger> what is currently in their git master which is of interest though?
<seele> maco: yes, but it is also an advanced feature which isn't one of our requirements or inclusion
<ScottK> Their big styling branch just landed.
<seele> the use case is to make it easy for users to get support
<seele> not itch a geek bone
<ScottK> So I expect a shift back to more basic features soon.
<Riddell> I tend to favour Konversation, it has more features and really quite a lot of mindshare
<maco> seele: yes ma'am
<Riddell> but if there's a new Quassel coming we can wait and review that
 * apachelogger agrees with Riddell at this point
<ScottK> My view is we told them what they had to do if they wanted to stay default.  Let's see what's in 0.5 and then decide
<maco> where is the list of demands about Quassel?
<ScottK> It was email cc to kubuntu-devel
 * seele coughs
<apachelogger> maco: somewhere on kubuntu-devel I think, possibly also in the spec
<seele> requests, not demands ;P
<apachelogger> demands to stay default :P
<seele> i thought they were listed on a wikipage somewhere too
 * seele sighs
<apachelogger> spec probably
<seele> none of you work with clients, do you
<apachelogger> anyway
 * ScottK does
<seele> deferred
<apachelogger> seele: we are the clients though :P
<apachelogger> so, I forgot what I wanted to say
<Riddell> "Status and plan for system-config-printer"
 * ScottK senses a rough consensus for waiting for 0.5 to decide
<seele> apachelogger: i would hope that we would consider ourselves participants in the project with recommendations, not demanding clients
<ScottK> Any objections?
<Riddell> seele: did you add that?
<seele> Riddell: yeah.. is shtylman here?
<seele> no he's not.. so i guess skip that one
<Riddell> seele: he can get crazy ideas that boy, we have to nudge him to keep him  to the usability plan :)
<seele> Riddell: yeah, that's why i put it on the list
<ScottK> Riddell: I say we make him a member while he's not here.
 * seele still has yet to see the latest ubiquity, but he swears he made all of my requested changes
<ScottK> Riddell: Added sense of responsibility will get more work done
<apachelogger> *nod*
<Riddell> "Review papercuts and what can get done"  seele too presumably?
<seele> ScottK: i dont know if membership works if he doesn't even express interest in applying..
<seele> yes
<ScottK> seele: He did.  He was just concerned he hadn't done enough
<ScottK> See #kubuntu-devel earlier today
<seele> so the fixing the avatar thing in kickoff was declined by upstream
<Riddell> seele: what was that?
<apachelogger> huh, how so?
<seele> Riddell: a patch jonathan thomas did to align the avatar in kickoff better
<seele> aaron didnt like the layout or something
<Riddell> I don't think I have an avatar in kickoff
<seele> i thought it looked better than what we have now, and the way aaron wanted it done can't currently be done because of layout issues
<seele> Riddell: not next to search? did you never configure one maybe?
<apachelogger> Riddell: you'd need to set the user pic in systemsettings
<seele> the problem is the avatar is next to search, not your name, which is silly
<Riddell> strangely I've never felt the need to set one
<seele> so my question was if this is something we want to maintain like our other kickoff patches
<seele> although, aaron doesnt seem to remember our other patches so maybe we should resubmit them again
<apachelogger> we have other patches?
<seele> (even though they were declined more than once)
<Riddell> if it's a good change I think we want it, we can always drop it should it become hard to maintain
<seele> yeah, to fix alingment and visibility of issues
<Riddell> it's still on my todo to send those to  reviewboard
<seele> let me find the bug, he might have posted a screenshot of his fix
<seele> bug 389744
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 389744 in kdebase-workspace "Fix avatar in KDE menu to be next to username" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/389744
<seele> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/28205152/avatarlayout.png
<seele> that is the patch
<seele> this was before: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/28128348/avatar.png
<apachelogger> hm
<Riddell> I like the patched one
<apachelogger> seele: as I see it, jonny just needs to enhance the patch a bit
<seele> well if someone can help him with it, the RB discussion died a few weeks ago
<maco> i like the patched one too
<seele> maco did some good work with the Abort label papercut and i would like to see GetHotNewStuff fixed as well
<rgreening> +1 for the patched ver
<seele> i think maco started on it, but it would be a good junior job for someone who wants to brush up on kdedev
<seele> if anyone wants to help with that one
<seele> bug 390226
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 390226 in hundredpapercuts "Make KDE Get Hot New Stuff button labels consistent" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/390226
<maco> im trying to figure out if working on that will make it easier to do my (C++, when i dont know C++ yet) homework or just take time away from it
<seele> one i think we need to vote on so i can close it is the kubuntu logo thing
<seele> bug 389658
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 389658 in hundredpapercuts "KDE menu button should have a Kubuntu Logo" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/389658
<seele> several people said they wanted to stick with KDE branding even though nuno didnt have a problem with it
<seele> so we should get a final vote so i can figure out what to do with the bug
 * rgreening thinks we need to have a paper cuts thing each cycle for Kubuntu
<Riddell> I think we should keep the KDE logo because it highlights our position as being the premier KDE distro
 * apachelogger wants to note that a lot of paper cuts get fixed without becoming papercuts
<seele> rgreening: i think ubuntu is planning on doing it every release, so it would make sense for kubuntu to try and do it
<rgreening> I like the idea of a new logo.
<seele> my goal was 10 papercuts, not sure if we will make it
<rgreening> coo
<maco> seele: how many have we done?
<seele> Riddell: mandriva users would argue against that ;)
<seele> maco: not sure.. maybe 4 or 5 with fixed committed or making progress?
<rgreening> THe option to change the icon is in the app launcher settings
<Nightrose> +1 for keeping the kde logo
<seele> i cant figure out how to see completed bugs in launchpad while staying in the kde tag for hundredpapercuts
 * ScottK likes the KDE logo
<Riddell> also I don't think a Kubuntu logo is any better usability wise, to non-techy users both a pretty abstract designs which don't indicate anything to do with "application menu"
<maco> seele: advanced search. choose fix-released and type "kde" in the tags field
<rgreening> How about having some icons the user can choose to change on thier own then?
<seele> Riddell: right, the only thing really saving us is the familiar position in the bottom left corner
<Riddell> http://tinyurl.com/lbxd5b
<seele> rgreening: an alternative was to offer a way for users to change the icon, but that would require someone to be able to code that and it is bigger than a papercut
<rgreening> seele that exists
<rgreening> right click the kmenu
 * apachelogger really thinks that the logo exchange is more about branding than anything else
<rgreening> choose app launcher settings.
<Riddell> 6 paper cuts closed
<rgreening> and then change the icon
<seele> rgreening: oh, in 4.3.0? i dont have that on my laptop yet
<seele> but that's cool
<rgreening> yeah. 4.3
<rgreening> :)
<seele> is the kubutnu logo provided in the icon list? we could probably just add it if it isnt there and then close it
<apachelogger> *nod*
<Riddell> no it's not
<claydoh> could we change the 'kde desktop' on the top right of kickoff to 'kubuntu' instead?
<seele> Riddell: awesome, thanks
 * apachelogger wants to note that the plain kubuntu icon looks like crap as menu icon though
<seele> ok, then how about someone add the kubuntu logo to the pile of icons, make sure it shows up in the icon picker, then we close that papercut?
<Riddell> claydoh: it says "Kubuntu KDE" for me, I'd like it improved
<rgreening> seele: +1
<seele> who is going to volunteer to do that so i can assign you that bug? ;)
<Riddell> now if only our artist hadn't gone on holiday for three weeks
<maco> seele: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bugs?field.searchtext=&orderby=-importance&field.status%3Alist=INPROGRESS&field.status%3Alist=FIXCOMMITTED&field.status%3Alist=FIXRELEASED&assignee_option=any&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.bug_supervisor=&field.bug_commenter=&field.subscriber=&field.omit_dupes.used=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_patch.used=&field.has_cve.used=&field.tag=kde&field.tags_combinator=ANY&search=Search
<maco>         in progress, fix committed, nd fix released tagged kde
<rgreening> if we add an icon choice, I'm ok with that
<seele> Riddell: i think the icon is done, i just dont know where it is
<apachelogger> Riddell: the fact that it's artist_ is quite worrying by itself
<claydoh> Riddell: 4.3 on Jaunty here, shows 'kdedesktop' (karmic's kernel doesn't like my laptop)
<seele> ah, that's another shtylman bug
<Riddell> seele: I've seen it done on kde-look I'm sure
<apachelogger> claydoh: either the branding is broken again or only on jaunty
<seele> bug 389747
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 389747 in hundredpapercuts "In default KDE panel use Show Desktop instead of Show Dashboard widget" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/389747
<seele> Riddell: you said you did this or were going to?
<apachelogger> IIRC I fixed branding for each major KDE version by now :P
<maco> tonio had a link to it
<Nightrose> jaunty 4.3 shows kubuntu kde here
<Riddell> seele: I have yes, surely I closed it
<seele> doesnt look like it
<seele> that would make papercut #7
<rgreening> yay
<Riddell> closed!
<seele> adding the kubuntu icon would make papercut #8
<seele> i would like to see KHNS closed as #9
<seele> which gives us one more to do to hit 10
<maco> seele: is that supposed to be "change which widget is on panel" or "change the wording of the tooltip"?
<apachelogger> change the widget
<seele> maco: change the actual widget
<seele> Riddell did it
<maco> oh ok
<seele> is shtylman was here, i would ask him how easy it is to add a browser to the printer config, because i think that would be a great papercut to fix
<seele> there is also one about in consistent package numbers between apt-get and update-notifier
<Riddell> if it's in the gnome version it's not hard
<rgreening> On another note, do we expect 4.3.1 (or later)  to be Karmic
<seele> but i dont know how hard that is to fix
<Riddell> rgreening: .2  is normal
<rgreening> ok. cool
<claydoh> apachelogger: I guess the icon changes with the plasma theme
<seele> Riddell: well it shouldnt be hard if you can get a konqueror browser thing in there pointed to samba shares, right?
<apachelogger> claydoh: yep
<seele> that's all you would need i think to see all of the network printers and select it
<Riddell> seele: harder than copy, paste and s/g/k/ :)
<apachelogger> claydoh: only overrides default, otherwise we would prevent theme creators of branding their themes
<seele> hehe
<rgreening> is tonio_ still working on that netshare patch?
<rgreening> for samba like user shares...
<Riddell> tonio has never started that
<Riddell> it's not a patch, it's a re-write and it wouldn't be hard
<seele> there are also other papercuts listed, but i dont know how hard they are.. the three i mentioned are what i think would be good to fix for karmic
<seele> let's go for 10!
<seele> and that's all i have to say about papercuts
<rgreening> oh... though he indicated he was taking that on...
<Riddell> rgreening: he said he would but he's busy with (non)work
<apachelogger> tonio wants to work on way too many things at once :P
<rgreening> apachelogger: I learned my lesson this cycle.
<rgreening> I committed to usb-creator-kde.. and got it done...
<rgreening> :)
<Riddell> shall we move on?
<apachelogger> it being python, must not have been easy :P
<rgreening> lol
<rgreening> HAL == evil
<Riddell> "Patching Kubuntu apps for messaging indicator and other stuff"
<apachelogger> rgreening: looking forward to hal => devicekit ? ;-)
<apachelogger> Riddell: what needs to be patched?
<ScottK> On the phone one moment
<Riddell> I've not communicated this very well because me and  aurelien were in the same room but the message indicator is now on the CD and the default setup
<rgreening> apachelogger: yep. evand has it mostly working in backend.
<Riddell> so that's for testing and feedback
<Riddell> it works with konversation currently
<rgreening> Riddell: cool
<ScottK> Back
<Riddell> I think it's a great improvement over the  million or none popups choice I had before
<apachelogger> Riddell: where would it be found packagewise?
<rgreening> nice to see our discussions at UDS provided something useful for Kubuntu from ayatana :)
<Riddell> apachelogger: plasma-widget-indicatordisplay
<ScottK> It's actually the Koversation patches I'm concerned about.
<rgreening> and kudos to agateau for
<rgreening> pulling it off.
<Riddell> it should go into KDE extragear when it's more stable
<ScottK> My understanding of the agreement we had at UDS was that we'd provide an indicator for non-KDE apps that were designed to use it (e.g. Pidgin), but that we wouldn't get in front of our upstreams in Kubuntu on this.
<Riddell> and of course it's not final, if everyone hates it we can remove it
<rgreening> +1 ScottK
<ScottK> agateau was going to come up with some kind of 'ayatana option' for people who wanted such stuff.
<ScottK> Riddell: I think we should leave it due to Ubuntu apps that expect such a thing.  I don't think we should be patching our stuff to use it by default.
<rgreening> we shouldn't be patching apps to support it, as it should be at the library level for KDE stuff... I would thinlk. And kdelibs is already patched to adhere to the agreed upon standard (I believe)
<ScottK> rgreening: That's for notifications.  For this there is no standard
<Riddell> ScottK: ayatana is the upstream for the widget, and we should treat them as any other upstream
<Riddell> right there's no standard here (yet)
<rgreening> oh right...
 * rgreening keeps mixing up indicator and notification
<Riddell> aurelien has been looking at making it part of knotify rather than apps directly
<rgreening> lol
<ScottK> Riddell: For the widget, that's fine.
 * apachelogger has no clue what indications and notifications are :P
<ScottK> I just think that the fact that many apps in the Ubuntu repo expect such a thing is one reason in favor, not a free pass.
<ScottK> If the konversation patches are temporary so there is something to test with, I think it's fine.
 * apachelogger doesn't get it to work
<maco> apachelogger: when you get an IM or get highlighted on IRC you get a popup notification. if you werent lookign when it came up, you may miss it when you get back, so it goes to the indicator applet which is like the voicemail of notifications
<rgreening> I'm inclined to agree with ScottK
<maco> apachelogger: kinda like how the systray now has that i that turns into a number for how many notifications you missed in kde
<apachelogger> so it is a duplication of the systray notification just implemented by canonical?
<Riddell> ScottK: the blocker to getting it into konversation upstrema is he needs to fix the patches to make it an optional thing, once that's done it'll be sent directly there
<maco> apachelogger: basically
<rgreening> I'm hoping that agateau can add support to the existing KDE 'i' indicator for the Gtk/Gnpome stuff... (assuming it's possible)
<Riddell> rgreening: yes that's done
<rgreening> cool
<Riddell> I blogged about it
 * rgreening has had his head burried in work
<apachelogger> cool, doesn't seem to work :S
<apachelogger> oh well, this gives me a headache
<Riddell> apachelogger: someone has to ping you while you don't have konversation in focus
<maco> didnt someone say knotifications wre going to stop doing the wall-of-text thing and start showing one at a time instead back when we were at uds? that hasnt hapened
<apachelogger> Riddell: just did that
<apachelogger> no indication there
<ScottK> maco: Yes.  That was (I thought) supposed to be in 4.3, but it didn't make it.
<rgreening> dang
<Riddell> ScottK: you're saying we should send patches upstream before using them ourselves, but (at least in this case) we wanted to make sure it was actually working (and we found several issues in the packaging and adding) which is usually a pre-requesit for upstream inclusion, so catch 22 because our testing method is inside the distro
<ScottK> Riddell: If it's just for testing and upstream is open to the idea, I don't mind.
<maco> ScottK: oh
<ScottK> Riddell: What I don't want is us having to maintain a stack of patches.
<apachelogger> Riddell: doesn't work
<Riddell> ScottK: I havn't spoken to upstream, because it's not very interesting to them until it's working, but I'll do that tomorrow and if it's not upstream toot sweet I'll be as disappointed as anyone
<ScottK> Riddell: Also testing can be done in a PPA.
<ScottK> As long as it's not on by default and upstreamed or dropped before release, I'm OK.
<apachelogger> hm
<ScottK> I thought the way the notification patches were handled was just right.
<apachelogger> Riddell: the applet is by default on the panel?
<Riddell> apachelogger: should be for now yes
<apachelogger> Riddell: is that going to change?
<Riddell> apachelogger: it's waiting for feedback, so depending on the feedback it may
<Riddell> I think I'd prefer it inside the systray for example
<apachelogger> I find it a waste of panel real estate
<ScottK> Inside the systray would be better.
 * ScottK thought it was going to be a systray app
<Riddell> and in the hidden part of the systray until it has something to notify about
<apachelogger> it should be sharing that "i" with the normal KDE notifications TBH
<maco> apachelogger: agreed. im guessing the "how" of that was problematic
<Riddell> anyway, we can gather feedback and send it to aurelien
<ScottK> Well that "i" should also hide when it has nothing to say
<apachelogger> true
<Riddell> and I'll make sure me and/or him talk to the konversation people
 * rgreening agrees with that
<apachelogger> so
<apachelogger> I am wondering
<apachelogger> Riddell: why is it going to extragear and not kdelibs?
<rgreening> auto hide until needed is best for anything in systray
<ScottK> Riddell: So is it agreed that this stuff should either be upstreamed or we don't ship it (for release)?
<Riddell> apachelogger: the applet isn't really libs material :)
<Riddell> kdeplasma-addons could have it
<Riddell> ScottK: yes I agree
<apachelogger> well, the general communication and stuff
<Nightrose> ScottK: it was _very_ annoying to see my systray jump around for every notifivation before 4.3
<Nightrose> so I am quite happy with the way it is now in 4.3
<Nightrose> ie i not going away
<ScottK> Riddell: OK.  That was my main concern
<Riddell> apachelogger: knotify would be best for those parts yes
<apachelogger> Riddell: I would very much prefer that over extragear
<apachelogger> because the extragear concept sounds like how gnome implemented notifications
<rgreening> good point Nightrose...
<Nightrose> it was very distracting also
<Riddell> any other business?
<Riddell> maco: do you have any other business?
 * ScottK defers to seele in the 'i'
<ScottK> in/on
<seele> hmm?
<apachelogger> iBug
<apachelogger> Riddell: plasma-desktop crashes after some time
<ScottK> plasma-netbook is pretty stable, although 'feature limited'.
<Riddell> apachelogger: it's been super stable for me
<apachelogger> *shrug*
<apachelogger> maybe it is related to my not-workingness
<Riddell> plasma-netbook and kwin-mid has some obvious bugs I'm assuming are known about
<maco> oh yeah can i apply for kubuntu membership?
<apachelogger> sure
<Riddell> ooh there's an idea maco
<ScottK> +1 for maco
<apachelogger> I suppose we have a quorum
<maco> i missed at the beginning
<Riddell> maco is already an Ubuntu member so has a slightly out-of-date wiki page somewhere
<seele> +1 maco
<maco> http://wiki.kubuntu.org/MacoMorgan
<maco> i slightly updated it during the meeting :P
<seele> we will stealz the ubuntu devs!
<apachelogger> hm
<ScottK> Need to get her to be a dev first
<maco> seele: i'z not ubuntu dev :P
 * apachelogger reads wiki page because maco updated it
<Nightrose> +1 for maco of course
<Riddell> nobody even have a question before voting?
<maco> haha
<apachelogger> sure we have
<apachelogger> so
<apachelogger> maco: why kubuntu?
<rgreening> +1
 * Nightrose could probably come up with one if needsbe ;-)
<Riddell> will it cause discort in the maco household if we slag off pulseaudio too much? :)
<maco> remember when alberto committed a way to let you turn zapping on in kubuntu but then it ws rejected in ubuntu? was talking to ScottK about that and he pointed out that if i actually like control i should try kde
<rgreening> maco is teh awesome
<maco> Riddell: dude, i hear the rants about pulseaudio and alsa from him much more than from you guys
 * apachelogger only rants about l10n
<apachelogger> maco: what do you think about l10n in kubuntu?
 * apachelogger hands ScottK a cookie
<Nightrose> maco: do we have enough women in kubuntu?
 * ScottK rants about ~ppax revisions in uploads to the archive.
 * apachelogger hands ScottK another cookie
<Riddell> ScottK: tsk, who would do a think like that
<maco> apachelogger: i think itd be nice if setting it to use spanish first, english second, andjapanese third didnt result in any japanese showing at all
<ScottK> That and 92 unread emails since I last looked.
 * rgreening thinks we need to teach seele to program
<maco> apachelogger: i dont know how there werent english transations for some strings there
<apachelogger> Riddell: Nightrose probably would, if she could
<Nightrose> likely
<apachelogger> maco: en_US?
<seele> rgreening: why when i could be doing other things?
<Nightrose> what again?
<maco> apachelogger: aye
<apachelogger> might be rosetta related problems
<rgreening> :)
 * seele had several cs courses in uni you know :P
<apachelogger> though in general that rationale is quite odd :P
 * rgreening did not know that about seele.
<maco> i thought seele could program and didnt like to
<apachelogger> maco: if you were an animal, what woudl you be?
<seele> maco: basically
<rgreening> lol
<seele> although i'm pretty out of practice by now so i wouldnt be much use
<rgreening> I've not met a programmer who didn't like ot program... My world is shattered
<apachelogger> seele: would always be enough for python coding :P
<maco> haha
 * rgreening glares at apachelogger
<ScottK> seele: Your couple of CS courses at university are probably more than a decade more recent than mine.
<Riddell> I fear this is getting silly
<Nightrose> rgreening: add a second one to that list then ;-)
<maco> apachelogger: what rationale?
<Riddell> I say + 1 for maco
<seele> ScottK: i had c++ so i'm out of date with the new kids who learn java only
<apachelogger> maco: the one with es-en-jp
<maco> Riddell: im giggling
<ScottK> seele: I learned Pascal, COBOL, and ForTran.
<apachelogger> since en should technically be complete there would not be a point in jp being last
<maco> apachelogger: oh. well i got to see layers of fubar when i had those l10n settings on my computer
<Riddell> apachelogger, rgreening: got votes?
<rgreening> +1 from me for maco
<maco> ScottK: yikes
<seele> ScottK: lol i didnt realise you were *that* old ;)
<apachelogger> first
<apachelogger> maco: what animal?
<maco> kitty?
<apachelogger> sounds good
<apachelogger> +1
<Riddell> congratulations maco
 * maco goes to pet the kitty on the window sill
 * apachelogger hands maco membership cookies
<rgreening> seele: I did assembly on PDP-11
<Riddell> any other business?
 * rgreening is almost as old as ScottK
<rgreening> nope. Not here...
<apachelogger> anyone got great ideas as to what to do about networking?
<seele> assembly is still a cs requirement i think
 * maco superglues merlin beards to rgreening and ScottK
<maco> seele: yes. i had to do mips asm
<apachelogger> recently networkmanager was bumped to 0.8 in karmic, which is of course not supported by knetworkmanager
<apachelogger> hence completely broken networking
<apachelogger> again
<Riddell> apachelogger: asac and awe are looking into it
<rgreening> Stupid NetworkMangler
<apachelogger> Riddell: what would be the outcome of that?
<Riddell> I showed them the code and they've said they'll get it working again
<apachelogger> them fixing knetworkmanager up for 0.8 or downgrading
<apachelogger> oh, that sounds good to me
<ScottK> seele: Yes.  My assembly language was modern.  It was Z80.
<Riddell> fixing knetworkmanager up
<apachelogger> though expect ranting if it doesn't get done :P
<apachelogger> another business I have
<apachelogger> nuno recently mentioned that kubuntu didn't sign up for the KDE branding stuff they started a month or two ago
<Riddell> yeah we need to make sure they don't drop it, but awe (Tony Espy) e-mailed me yesterday about it so he should be onto it
<ScottK> Riddell: NM 0.8 means bluetooth DUN support.  This is pretty huge for netbook.  Any chances of it working with kdebluetooth?
<Riddell> mm, we didn't?
<apachelogger> apparently not
 * ScottK thought we did.
 * apachelogger too :D
<apachelogger> so everyone though we did but in fact no one signed us up :D
<apachelogger> s/though/thought
<rgreening> doh
<ScottK> action to maco to go hunt down shtylman and make him apply.
<Riddell> I can talk to him to ask what that would entail
<rgreening> +1
<ScottK> even better
<apachelogger> maybe both?
<Riddell> ScottK: I'd expect that NM takes care of the bluetooth side if it has the appropriate UI code (although I could be wrong)
<maco> someone said 0.8 is supposed to on the u-devel list, yeah
<seele> ok all done here?
<Riddell> yes, thanks all
 * Riddell canoes off into the distance
<apachelogger> those canoers
 * seele plays adventure music in the background
 * apachelogger hands everyone a cookie and gives everyone a hug
 * Nightrose rehugs apachelogger
 * Nightrose waves goodby to the canoeing Riddell
 * ScottK stands by the shore with a life vest and a rope
 * maco grabs rope from ScottK and yanks HARD, pulling Riddell out of canoe and into water
<maco> *giggle*
<ScottK> maco: Did you get voted in?  I couldn't tell.
<maco> ScottK: yeah
 * apachelogger doubts it
<apachelogger> oh
 * apachelogger scuttles off to shower
<maco> at least there was something about membership cookies?
<maco> ScottK: i didnt see any -1's but there were +1's before question-asking
<apachelogger> maco: I recommend you put them in your kcookiejar, so they stay fresh ;-)
<maco> apachelogger: wouldnt that just be kookiejar?
<apachelogger> /opt/kde-nightly/bin/kcookiejar4
<apachelogger> apparently not
<maco> wait that exi...ok
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-08-12
<Rocket2DMn> We'll wait a few minutes for bodhi
<starcraftman> Rocket2DMn: k, no worries, No one else booked meeting after us.
<drs305> Rocket2DMn: While we are waiting, can I ask you a question about the quizzes?
<Rocket2DMn> yeah drs305
<drs305> Has there ever been discussion about when a quiz is given (i.e. scheduled vs spru of the moment)?
<drs305> * spur  ( I hate sprus)
<Rocket2DMn> no, it's always just been spur of the moment (i.e. whenever bodhi got to it)
<Rocket2DMn> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 18:08. The chair is Rocket2DMn.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<Rocket2DMn> Ok, bodhi hasn't shown up, so we'll start without him
<Rocket2DMn> let's just run down the focus groups, hopefully he'll be here for the main agenda
<Rocket2DMn> Development FG? I don't see paultag
<Rocket2DMn> Education FG? I don't see any leads for them either
<Rocket2DMn> IRC?
<drs305> Nobody's around in August...
<Rocket2DMn> Launchpad? Security? Stalking?
<Rocket2DMn> jgoguen, YNU FG?
<Raidsong> i think its dev
<starcraftman> guess this is gonna be a quiet meeting...
<jgoguen> Rocket2DMn: Not much to say ATM. We've got a bunch of users, thinking about a meeting soon :)
<Rocket2DMn> cool jgoguen , don't wait to set one up, summer is starting to wind down for people
<jgoguen> Rocket2DMn: We were thinking soon, next week or so
<Rocket2DMn> Sounds good
<Rocket2DMn> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings
<Rocket2DMn> let's start with the main agenda then
<Rocket2DMn> [TOPIC] Folding@Home and the #ubuntu-folding channel
<MootBot> New Topic:  Folding@Home and the #ubuntu-folding channel
<Rocket2DMn> swoody, you're up
<swoody> Thanks Rocket2DMn, I'll make this short for everyone :)
<swoody> I just wanted to make a brief annoucement to everyone here about the Folding@Home project.
<swoody> For those of you who don't know what Folding@Home is, it's a distributed computing project that was started by Stanford University.
<swoody> F@H uses your computer's spare processing power to assist researchers in folding proteins.
<swoody> The work that's being done by the F@H project is giving scientists a better understanding of how certain diseases develop, and can lead to cures for diseases such as Parkinson's, Huntington's, Alzheimers, and cancer amoung many others.
<swoody> I feel that it's a very worthy project, and I also believe that this project ties in greatly with Ubuntu's philosiphy of giving back to the greater community.
<swoody> For some more info on the project or to find out how you can help out, plese drop by our channel at #ubuntu-folding, or check out:
<swoody> [LINK] https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FoldingAtHome
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FoldingAtHome
<swoody> and if there's no questions.....
<drs305> Is there just one Ubuntu team now?
<swoody> drs305:  ah, yes! The multiple teams that used to be are now united under Tem Ubuntu :)
<swoody> Team Ubuntu**
<drs305> ty
<starcraftman> Only thing ya might want to add swoody is mentioning origami installer, very handy.
<swoody> yes, thank you starcraftman :)
<swoody> There are a number of ways to install the F@H client on your computer. Most of them are very simple (2 commands
<swoody> ) and very painless :)
<swoody> Anyone want to toss out anything else, or have any questions?
<Raidsong> can you give us the commands?
<swoody> to install origami it's simply 'sudo apt-get install origami'...
<swoody> then to set it up would be "sudo origami install [-t TEAMNUMBER -u FOLDINGUSER ]"
<starcraftman> For more information on the origami installer (including more advanced options see:
<starcraftman> [LINK] https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FoldingAtHome/origami
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FoldingAtHome/origami
<swoody> ah, thank you starcraftman :)
<swoody> and that should be about it then :)
<starcraftman> swoody: no problem, always here to help.
<Rocket2DMn> Cool project swoody , thank you for sharing
<swoody> Again, if anyone has any questions, please feel free to drop by #ubuntu-folding
<swoody> ty Rocket2DMn :)
<Rocket2DMn> [TOPIC] Remove Beginners Team Calendar
<MootBot> New Topic:  Remove Beginners Team Calendar
<Raidsong> ill run this on both of my computers
<nhandler> I can talk about this Rocket2DMn
<Rocket2DMn> floor is yours nhandler
<nhandler> Pretty much, we started using a separate calendar due to the closed nature of the old fridge (and because we had meetings in #ubuntuforums-beginners)
<nhandler> Now, we use #ubuntu-meeting and the Fridge for our main meetings
<nhandler> I see it as a waste of time duplicating this on our own calendar that not many people subscribe to
<nhandler> If there are no objections, I would like to go ahead and get the BT calendar deleted
<Rocket2DMn> nhandler, let's get bodhi's final approval on that before we shut it down
<nhandler> Rocket2DMn: Of course. But I would like to get a vote at this meeting as well
<superbenny> is there really any work that goes into it? i dont see any reason why we cant just leave it there for people, such as myself who do use it
<Rocket2DMn> I also use it, perhaps we should just remove it from the wiki page?
<nhandler> superbenny: Might I ask why you use that instead of the normal Fridge calendar?
<Rocket2DMn> gcal it sends email reminders
<nhandler> Rocket2DMn: The Fridge is a gcal now
<superbenny> no idea, that was just the one on the wiki. also, is the fridge cal only bt items?
<Rocket2DMn> link?
<nhandler> superbenny: No, it has items for all Ubuntu teams
<superbenny> as of right now, I'm not really involved in much outside of the BT.
<nhandler> [link] http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar
<starcraftman> Long as the fgs and main teem meetings are all consolidated into the fridge calendar I'm fine with it, means no duplication like I get now.
<superbenny> so it just keeps useless events off of my calendar
<nhandler> starcraftman: Most FG don't even use the BT calendar. However, I think it would be fine to have them use the Fridge calendar
<superbenny> now, if there is someone who sits there and devotes more than 10 minutes to it, then its reasonable to delete it, but as far as i'm aware, its just an auto-repeating event every other tuesday
<Rocket2DMn> nhandler, can you schedule events on the fridge calendar that aren't held in this channel?
<superbenny> in which case, no harm can come from leaving it as-is
<nhandler> superbenny: As of a few weeks ago, it is auto-repeating. I have no issue leaving it like that. However, I have no plans on correcting it for the few instances we get off schedule (which happen around US holidays and such)
<nhandler> Rocket2DMn: Yes
<swoody> +1 if that is the case superbenny
<nhandler> Rocket2DMn: For example, we use it for classroom sessions that are in #ubuntu-classroom
<nhandler> The Doc Team has also used it for meetings in #ubuntu-doc
<Rocket2DMn> ok, shall we put it to a vote then?
<nhandler> Sure
<Rocket2DMn> are we voting to close it down, or just to remove it from the wiki page?
<nhandler> Rocket2DMn: I would make the vote to "stop using it". We would start referencing the Fridge on the wiki, and I (and other people) would stop updating the BT calendar
<superbenny> sounds good to me.
<Rocket2DMn> [VOTE] Stop using the BT Google Calendar and only use The Fridge instead?
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Stop using the BT Google Calendar and only use The Fridge instead?.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<nhandler> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nhandler. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<andrew_46> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from andrew_46. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<Rocket2DMn> 0
<swoody> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from swoody. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<starcraftman> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from starcraftman. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<Raidsong> +1
<nhandler> Rocket2DMn: +0
<MootBot> +1 received from Raidsong. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<superbenny> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from superbenny. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<Rocket2DMn> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from Rocket2DMn. 6 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 6
<Rocket2DMn> any more votes?
<duanedes1gn> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from duanedes1gn. 6 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 6
<Rocket2DMn> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 2 abstained. Total: 6
<Rocket2DMn> [AGREED] Stop using BT Google Calendar.  Use Fridge instead.
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Stop using BT Google Calendar.  Use Fridge instead.
<nhandler> Just as a note, only BT members should be participating in these votes
<Rocket2DMn> nhandler, you want the action to double check with bodhi and remove it from wiki?
<nhandler> Rocket2DMn: That is fine
<Rocket2DMn> [ACTION] nhandler to check removal of GCal and remove from wiki
<MootBot> ACTION received:  nhandler to check removal of GCal and remove from wiki
<Rocket2DMn> I'll postpone the next agenda item since bodhi isn't here
<Rocket2DMn> [TOPIC] Drop ##beginners-classroom
<MootBot> New Topic:  Drop ##beginners-classroom
<Rocket2DMn> nhandler, you're up again
<nhandler> We stopped using ##beginners-classroom in favor of #ubuntu-classroom a while ago
<nhandler> This is why we did not create a #ubuntu-beginners-classroom when we renamed the team
<nhandler> As a result, I see no reason to keep this unused channel open, and I propose dropping it
<Rocket2DMn> How do we go about removing it?
<Rocket2DMn> is it just a matter of not referencing it on the wiki anymore?
<nhandler> Rocket2DMn: Bodhi would do a /msg ChanServ drop ##beginners-classroom
<nhandler> Rocket2DMn: I'm not even sure if it is referenced still on the wiki
<Rocket2DMn> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups
<Rocket2DMn> it's still listed there
<swoody> nhandler:  The channel hasn't been used for anything recently?
<nhandler> swoody: Correct
<nhandler> We moved to #ubuntu-classroom
<Rocket2DMn> ok, does anybody want to voice any objections?
<swoody> nhandler:  Ah, I don't forsee any objections then :)
<starcraftman> I got nothing.
<superbenny> nor do i...
<Rocket2DMn> ok, I don't think we need to vote on that
<Rocket2DMn> that's really a FG decision
<nhandler> I'll talk to bodhi and get it dropped then
 * nhandler -> dinner
<Rocket2DMn> [ACTION] nhandler to talk to bodhi - remove ##beginners-classroom
<MootBot> ACTION received:  nhandler to talk to bodhi - remove ##beginners-classroom
<Rocket2DMn> [TOPIC] Other
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other
<Rocket2DMn> does anybody have anything else at all they want to discuss?  The floor is open.
<starcraftman> Nope.
<andrew_46> Nothing here
<superbenny> nope
<Rocket2DMn> Okie dokie then, there aren't any padawan nominations, so I think we're finished
<starcraftman> Guess so.
<Rocket2DMn> nobody has any last minute nominations right?
<superbenny> cool
<Rocket2DMn> Ok, thanks for coming everybody
<Rocket2DMn> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 18:41.
<superbenny> no Rocket2DMn, thank YOU
<Rocket2DMn> now back to watching Star Wars like a true nerd
<andrew_46> Battlestar galactica here
<starcraftman> Yay, BSG, good choice andrew_46
<superbenny> hehe...i guess ill just fiddle with my ipod touch...
 * james_w waves
<liw> hi
 * robbiew waves
<robbiew> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is robbiew.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<mterry> Hello!
<Keybuk> hey
<robbiew> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Meetings/2009/0812#Agenda
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Meetings/2009/0812#Agenda
<slangasek> morning
<robbiew> evand: james_w: around?
<al-maisan> me
<james_w> hi
<evand> hi
<robbiew> sorry for the late Agenda...took longer to pull together than I thought :/
<robbiew> cjwatson: around?
<cjwatson> hi
<robbiew> cool
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Alpha 4 Deliverables
<MootBot> New Topic:  Alpha 4 Deliverables
<robbiew> looked through the list, and I'm thinking some will be Alpha 5/6 deliverables :P
<robbiew> or we simply drop them
<cjwatson> unfortunately yes
<robbiew> cjwatson: cloud setup has a legitimate excuse ;)
<cjwatson> cloud is essential so I don't think we have the luxury of dropping it, but it will be a5
<robbiew> okay
<robbiew> I consider grub2 as done...but there is some work we need to do to help the DX team deliver
<robbiew> on Boot Experience
<cjwatson> grub2 is only done by a generous interpretation, but you'll be pleased to hear that I just got the zero-delay stuff working
<cjwatson> about fifteen minutes before this meeting
<robbiew> awesome
<robbiew> I'm sure sabdfl will be happy as well ;)
<cjwatson> I'll push it out to a5, it's safe for that
<cjwatson> whatever gave you that idea? ;)
<Keybuk> cjwatson: well done
<Keybuk> cjwatson: I assume you need a few days off to recover from writing ia32 assembler? :p
<robbiew> heh
<cjwatson> fortunately I was just applying somebody else's ia32 assembler
<cjwatson> although by an amazing coincidence I'm off next week
<robbiew> nice
<robbiew> yeah...both cjwatson and Keybuk out on the same week
 * Keybuk is around in cases of emergency, I'm only painting
<robbiew> heh
<liw> Keybuk, house? paintings?
<robbiew> not much of a holiday then
 * robbiew assumes house
<robbiew> based on twitter updates
<cjwatson> I'm at home as well
<robbiew> cjwatson: do you think we can get the blinking cursor removed?
<robbiew> in grub2
<robbiew> as well as the random text stuff that pops up?
<cjwatson> the text is doable, it's on my list - the cursor is actually after grub2 and may involve connivance with the kernel and probably even userspace (to put it back at the end of boot)
<Keybuk> cjwatson: getty already conveniently resets the tty
<cjwatson> ah, that helps
<cjwatson> I was trying to arrange for grub2 to do all the screen setup, but unfortunately that doesn't actually work with Linux the way it is
<cjwatson> see https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kernel-team/2009-August/006773.html for the gory details
<Keybuk> right, I imagine that would be hard since you'd need GRUB to initialise GL pipelines and shit ;)
<cjwatson> nah
<cjwatson> resets to the *same resolution* once KMS comes up won't be all that hard
<cjwatson> it's just a matter of having some way to display text in the early stages in case everything goes south
<cjwatson> which involves bringing up vesafb, then tearing it down again later
<Keybuk> right, this sounds bad
<Keybuk> I don't think it matters _when_ we set the resolution of the display
<Keybuk> just that we only do it once
<cjwatson> so I'm not sure how much I can do on that in practice, but it's easy to turn the cursor off *somewhere* I'm sure - definitely on my list
<Keybuk> well, GRUB already turns it off
<Keybuk> it's just that it turns it back on again <g>
<robbiew> cjwatson: ack...thnx
<robbiew> GRUB turns it off...then kernel turns it back on
<robbiew> correct?
<cjwatson> are you sure it's GRUB that turns it back on - or if so, if it didn't, wouldn't Linux do so too? it resets the screen itself
<cjwatson> if it's GRUB I will deal with that, anyway
<Keybuk> right, who knows
<Keybuk> ideally nothing would clear the screen until gdm does ;)
<Keybuk> or ?splash
<Keybuk> I mean
<cjwatson> moving the clear screen around in grub is part of fixing the early text
<cjwatson> moving to oblivion in the case that the menu isn't going to be displayed
<cjwatson> at the moment it clears the screen before it knows whether it wants to display the menu or not, so that needs to be rearranged somewhat
<cjwatson> it's all doable anyway, I'm getting the hang of grub :)
<robbiew> nice ;)...okay need to press on...full agenda today :/
<robbiew> slangasek : Multiarch support? Alpha 5..6..defer?
<slangasek> robbiew: alpha4 was always a fuzzy target IMHO; I wouldn't want to cut it from the release until we absolutely have to, and Guillem is actively working on the dpkg bits now
<robbiew> cool
<robbiew> how about I make it Beta?
<slangasek> ok
<robbiew> or is that too late
<slangasek> it's a little late for the package manager to land; so alpha-6 is probably better
<robbiew> ok
<robbiew> noted
<robbiew> and the Power Management Cleanup work?
<robbiew> I recall mterry working on that
<mterry> robbiew, I did some work at the beginning of the cycle, but haven't since.  I thought slangasek was doing the keybinding work
<slangasek> there are a few more power management cleanup bits we can expect to accomplish this cycle, but nothing earth-moving
<slangasek> since there are still architecture bits missing before we can kill acpi-support completely
<robbiew> so should we just say Alpha 6 as the deadline to cleanup whatever possible?
<slangasek> sounds good
<robbiew> k
<robbiew> evand: Encrypted Swap...is that done?
<evand> Encrypted swap is just waiting on kirkland to review a patch I have for ecryptfs (he's on vacation).  Migration Assistant is turning out to be much more involved than I had initially anticipated, and I'm going to have to defer it to alpha 5/6.
<robbiew> no worries
<robbiew> let's put the swap at Alpha 5
<robbiew> as for the assistant work....it's okay to defer if you don't think it will happen this cycle
 * robbiew knows it's work evand REALLY wanted to do though
<robbiew> so I'm fine with Alpha 6....and then reassess deferment then
<evand> ah, that removes quite a bit of stress over it, actually.  I'll keep at it full-bore, but noted.
<evand> thanks
<robbiew> no worries
 * robbiew will need to talk to mvo about the Install updates on Shutdown work (possibly deferrable) and the Robust Python work
<Ursinha> mano
<Ursinha> oh, sorry
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Missing Milestones
<MootBot> New Topic:  Missing Milestones
<liw> I was under the impression we are already using eglibc in karmic and we only need to take care of fixing any bugs that are found -- was I optimistic?
<robbiew> liw: I think you're right
<slangasek> we are using eglibc, yes
<cjwatson> I'll split archive-reorganization into two specs to reflect reality
<robbiew> cjwatson: cool...thnx
<cjwatson> then they can get a milestone apiece
<robbiew> liw: at this point, I'm not sure how much a blueprint is needed...since eglibc is already in
<cjwatson> robust python: I believe that Steve, Matthias, and I agreed in Dublin that we would just robustify the individual packages that are deep in dep trees and causing problems, rather than changing the entire stack
<cjwatson> lsb-release comes to mind right now
<cjwatson> but I'd like to confirm that with mvo when we gets back
<cjwatson> s/we/he/
<liw> robbiew, ok, if you decide it's needed, prod me again
<robbiew> ack
<robbiew> liw: no worries...no need to waste time on unnecessary "paperwork" ;)
<robbiew> slangasek: what did we decide to do about the copyright licenses in  packages?
 * robbiew cannot remember :/
<liw> zsync: I'm waiting for mvo to return (he's really popular now), to get help with the apt part of the implementation (zsync for Packages files); I'm setting up prototypes for using debdelta so we can use either debdelta's own upgrade stuff, or integrate it to apt
<slangasek> robbiew: I'm to get the DEP text into a respectable state (which it isn't currently), and we're to start using it this cycle
<liw> slangasek, \o/
<robbiew> who's actually going to update the packages? liw?
<robbiew> mterry gets grunt work?
<robbiew> :P
<liw> uh, what? :)
<slangasek> robbiew: once it's blessed, we all can update packages as we go
<robbiew> ah...okay
<robbiew> I'm good with that
<robbiew> liw: ack on the Zsync stuff...thnx
<mterry> Easier for people that are familiar with the package to know correct copyright lines
<robbiew> indeed
<robbiew> nice deflection mterry ;)
<liw> copyrights: starting with packages which maintain in Ubuntu and don't inherit from Debian, presumably, to restrict deltas
<mterry> :)
<robbiew> right
<liw> robbiew, zsync milestone: I doubt before feature-freeze, but I'll provide an apt in a PPA for those who want to use it
<robbiew> liw: what was decided about the pre-unpacking during downloads? do we run away screaming from that?
<liw> pre-unpacking .debs while more are downloaded: I'm going to talk to mvo about that, too; basically, the only sensible way seems to be to have apt download in instalaltion order and install things in smaller batches whenever it has enough packages (while continuing to download in the background)
<robbiew> liw: ack
 * robbiew needs to clone mvo :P
<evand> You could always cut him in half and see if he regenerates like a starfish
<slangasek> I thought that's why he was on leave?
<robbiew> heh
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Sponsorship Queue
<MootBot> New Topic:  Sponsorship Queue
<slangasek> oh, cloning is asexual, my bad
<robbiew> well...with the Sprint and DebConf....didn't expect much activity there
 * Keybuk wonders whether wanting to clone co-workers counts as asexual harassment
<robbiew> moving on...
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Missing Objectives
<MootBot> New Topic:  Missing Objectives
<robbiew> eh hem
<james_w> I put mine in the system because I found it would let me log on again
<robbiew> ah..okay
<robbiew> would be nice if the system let ME know :/
<james_w> I can transfer to email if you would like
<robbiew> I'd recommend at least keeping an email copy
<robbiew> since the system sucks :P
<james_w> good idea :-)
<robbiew> slangasek: evand: also in the "system"?  or in the works
<robbiew> heh
<slangasek> in the mail^W works :(
<evand> in the works
<robbiew> no worries
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Good News
<MootBot> New Topic:  Good News
<Keybuk> robbiew: do we need to put them in the system ourselves if we've sent them to you?
<robbiew> Keybuk: I think I entered yours, but I need you to hit the "submit" button
<james_w> what do you know? it seems to have forgotten them
<robbiew> heh
<liw> a bit of good news: if this meeting doesn't extend too much, I will be able to celebrate an anniversary
 * ogra wants such a topic in his team meetings !!
<robbiew> liw: \o/
<Keybuk> robbiew: there aren't any in there
<robbiew> is that a hint ;)
 * james_w managed to write C code without getting segfaults
<liw> robbiew, 1 :)
<liw> james_w, \o/
<ogra> james_w, you just use the wrong arch, try again on armel :)
<james_w> heh
<robbiew> Keybuk: odd...I see the ones I put in
<robbiew> dumb tool
<robbiew> Keybuk: could you put them in and submit then?
<robbiew> james_w: I can see yours
<james_w> ah
<Keybuk> robbiew: done, they promptly vanished again ;)  but now I have no Submit button
<james_w> good, I can't find the button to let me put some more in :-)
 * robbiew processed Keybuk and james_w objectives ;)
<james_w> is there anyone on the team with C knowledge that would sanity check a patch for me?
<Keybuk> sure
<james_w> Keybuk: thanks, I'll put it in a mail
<liw> don't trust Keybuk, though, if he suggests preprocessor magic
 * robbiew knows C...but hasn't written code in a few years :/
<robbiew> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
 * robbiew reminds folks to book travel for LinuxCon and Plumbers
<Keybuk> my booking is with my travel agent
<robbiew> must be nice to have one of those :/
<robbiew> hhe
<liw> robbiew, um, not all of us, I assume?
<robbiew> no
<robbiew> lol
<robbiew> just those who are going
<liw> *phew*
<robbiew> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:49.
<robbiew> 10min early...woohoo!
<robbiew> :P
<liw> thanks! :)
 * slangasek reserves his seat on the MAX
<james_w> thanks all
<slangasek> thanks. :)
<al-maisan> thank you!
<heno> hello
<bdmurray> hi!
<pedro_> hola !
 * fader_ waves.
<davmor2> heelo
<davmor2> meh long day hello
<czajkowski> very long day
<heno> welcome everyone!
<heno> let's start ...
<heno> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:02. The chair is heno.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<heno> agenda as  always: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings
<heno> hope everyone had uneventful travels back from Dublin
<heno> [TOPIC] UbuntuBugDay highlights -- pedro
<MootBot> New Topic:  UbuntuBugDay highlights -- pedro
<pedro_> well we didn't have a hug day the past week but...
<pedro_> On Thursday 30 of July we celebrated a bug day based on Nautilus
<heno> (we also didn't have an IRC meeting)
<pedro_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20090730
<pedro_> yeah that's correct
<pedro_> ~61 bugs were triaged, Thanks a lot to our hug day heroes: 8 Kamus, yofel, kklimonda, trothigar, showard314, shankao, mrkanister and adisari06
<pedro_> MacSlow pinged me a couple of weeks ago to see the possibility to organize a hug day for the notify-osd
<pedro_> we talked about it during the sprint and
<pedro_> Tomorrow we're going to celebrate a hug day based on notify-osd
<pedro_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20090813
<heno> why do the New bugs get more attention than the Incomplete? Because the initial triage is easier than the follow-up?
<pedro_> everybody is welcome to join us and help there
<pedro_> yeap seems to be easier, also lot of incomplete bugs still don't have a response but they cannot be closed yet
<heno> makes sense
<heno> thanks pedro_
<heno> [TOPIC] SRU testing -- sbeattie
<MootBot> New Topic:  SRU testing -- sbeattie
<pedro_> my pleasure :-)
<heno> ah, sbeattie isn't here
<heno> he's on holiday in fact
<heno> ok, moving on ...
<heno> [TOPIC] Mago is now in Karmic -- ara
<MootBot> New Topic:  Mago is now in Karmic -- ara
<heno> \o/
<james_w> yay
<ara> Well, nothing more not say, almost self explanatory. mago is now available in karmic repositories
<heno> who do we thank for doing/reviewing the uploads?
<ara> nvarcalcel and seb128 make an initial revision
<heno> it will make the self-testing CD one step closer
<ara> and Iain Lane uploaded it
<heno> just need to get it in main and seeded now ...
<cr3> ara: you should expect contributions from YokoZar shortly, who is very interested in mago
<ara> cr3, nice!
<cr3> ara: I take 5% commission
<heno> [TOPIC] (Canonical) QA Team lead change -- heno
<ara> cr3, ok, no problem, expect a 5% of 0$
<MootBot> New Topic:  (Canonical) QA Team lead change -- heno
<cr3> ara: I want 10% then!
<heno> As I mentioned at UDS I'm moving to a different team in Canonical (ISD)
<heno> that now has a date, which is this Monday
<fader`> heno: Congratulations! :)
<fader`> We'll miss you.
<heno> I'll be succeeded by the very capable Marjo Mercado
<heno> fader`: thanks :)
<davmor2> well done heno and welcome marjo
<heno> I expect he'll lead these IRC meetings going forward, but you can all fight it out ;)
<cr3> heno: we will fondly refer to these days as BH (Before Heno), marking this significant point in history
<eeejay> heno, good luck!
<ara> heno, you will be missed!
<heno> eeejay: thanks, you too :)
 * pedro_ hugs heno
<pedro_> best of luck heno :-)
<heno> may we all live in interesting times, etc.
<davmor2> enjoy yourself heno
 * heno hugs pedro_ and the whole QA team
<heno> davmor2: I'll stop by and help out with CD testing in the release crunch!
<davmor2> Yay
<heno> any other business?
<heno> I think we're done
<heno> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:24.
<davmor2> Thanks heno
<popey> good luck heno
<heno> thanks popey!
<czajkowski> how does one close a vote on mootbot?
<cody-somerville> #endvote I believe
<czajkowski> cody-somerville: thanks,
<Pricey> czajkowski: Check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScribesTeam/MootBot for the full list of commands.
<czajkowski> Pricey: I used it but didnt seem to end the vote
<Pricey> wierd
<czajkowski> nm wasnt that imortant and small enough we can follow :)
<nellery> czajkowski: that wiki page says [ENDVOTE]
<czajkowski> 2 more items on the agenda, should be good without needing votes
<Pricey> czajkowski: see nellery!!! :)
<Pricey> czajkowski: tis [endvote] as he says, not #endvote
<czajkowski> aye
<czajkowski> thanks :)
<Pricey> czajkowski: all working now?
<czajkowski> yup
<czajkowski> I do like MootBot
<Ursinha> czajkowski, me too :)
<Coringao> Pretto, Ursinha hi my friends. :)
<Ursinha> Coringao, hi
<Coringao> :)
<Pretto> hi Coringao
<Coringao> Pretto, ;)
<Pretto> @now
<Legendario> when is the next meeting?
<Ursinha> Legendario, hopefully in 2 mins
<pleia2> americas board meeting is in 2 minutes
<Legendario> the next one?
<Legendario> after that...
<Ursinha> Legendario, isn't that in the calendar?
<Ursinha> fridge calendar, that is
<greg-g> in the topic :)
<Legendario> thanks guys
<beuno> ok
<beuno> everytone ready and psyched?
<greg-g> I know I am!
<pleia2> ok everyone, welcome to the americas board meeting :) we have quorum so lets get started
<pleia2> looks like brywilharris and oubiwann aren't here
<pleia2> tarvid: you're up :)
<pleia2> give us a short introduction and link to your wiki
<tarvid> tarvid is here
<tarvid> here
<tarvid> here
<tarvid> here
<beuno> tarvid, ok, tell us about yourself then
<greg-g> everything ok, tarvid ?
<beuno> ok
<beuno> NEXT!
 * Ursinha prays to lord for her internet connection
<greg-g> I guess tarvid was having some connection issues, so we'll move on to
<beuno> Coringao is not around either
<pleia2> nor is wiebelhaus
<beuno> tarvid, dude, you're up!
<greg-g> ahh, tarvid, welcome back
<tarvid> tarvid is back. pidgin run  amuck
<pleia2> tarvid: please introduce yourself and link to your wiki page :)
<tarvid> tarvid is an International Health Consultant turned ISP
<tarvid> wiki page is Jim Tarvid
<tarvid> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JimTarvid
<tarvid> I've been an active Linux user since 1995
<tarvid> pidgin again, keep killing twitter but it keeps coming back
<beuno> tarvid, what have your contributions to Ubuntu been?
<tarvid> I've been promoting Linux actively since 1997 or 1998
<tarvid> I hold regular install fests and release parties
<tarvid> I am working on erlang upstream (Debian)
<cr3> tarvid: erlang, you rock!
<Technoviking> what is erlang and what work have you been doing on it.
<tarvid> I want to do schemaless databases
<beuno> tarvid, why?
<tarvid> I have the theory that things can be reduced to codices+indices
<tarvid> If you look at Drupal CCK for example, to be flexible, the add a table per field to content profiles
<tarvid> MySQL is a hammer for which everything looks like a nail
<pleia2> tarvid: can your provide a link to your upstream work, please?
<tarvid> it just started
<tarvid> Current maintainer Noah           Slaterhas other fish to fry
<tarvid> My work so far is builds on Ubuntu and Windows for my own use
<beuno> tarvid, so, from what I can gather, your actual direct contributions to Ubuntu have been helping out in your LoCo?
<tarvid> True. I revived the loco a few months ago. A struggle but perhaps it will work out
<beuno> tarvid, how long have you been involved in ubuntu?
<tarvid> Warty
<tarvid> We use it internally
<beuno> tarvid, using, or contributing to the project?
<tarvid> About 150 websites and a couple dozen Drupal
<tarvid> Not sure there is a difference in this area
<greg-g> I'm confused by what you mean by 150 website and couple dozen drupal
<tarvid> Among other things we are a web hosting provider
<greg-g> oh, you mean you are using Ubuntu to host about 150 websites including a couple dozen drupal installs?
<tarvid> We provide mentoring and hosting to a few Drupal web sites
<tarvid> yes
<pleia2> "we"? the company you work for?
<tarvid> LS.Net
<beuno> tarvid, so, I feel you have been a very active Ubuntu user, but have not done a lot of active work in the Ubuntu project.
<tarvid> We will have our 14th birthday in a few days
<tarvid> Hmm. If you mean packaging, yes
<beuno> well, no, I mean in general
<tarvid> And we have actively promoted Ubuntu in our area
<beuno> or I'm not understanding this well
<boredandblogging> tarvid: lsnet has hosted one release party?
<beuno> tarvid, I'm confused by your use of "we"
<tarvid> I would gues 6 or 7
<tarvid> I found online documentation for the one on the wiki page
<tarvid> We is LSNet collectively, three second hand lions
<boredandblogging> ready to vote?
<beuno> tarvid, so, I see you're very enthusiastic, seem to be doing a very good job at promoting Ubuntu, but I feel you need to get more involved individually in the community as a whole. I'm -1 today.
<beuno> boredandblogging, that
<beuno> that's a "yes, I'm ready"  :)
<boredandblogging> i'm with beuno, seems like the lines are blurred between lsnet and you
<pleia2> tarvid: I'd really like to see more Ubuntu specific activity with the Virginia team, and your upstream work sounds like it has a lot of potential :) but I'm going to have to -1 for now until more of it comes to fruition
<Technoviking> -1 here also, I think you have good work, but I would like to see more direct work wih Ubuntu and the community.
<greg-g> tarvid: I would just like to see a bit more documentation of your contributions: bug triage, coverage of Ubuntu specific events you ran/planned, etc.  For today, -1, but I see your have great expectations and possibilities, so keep up the good work and come back later! :)
<beuno> Coringao, start preparing
<Coringao> beuno, ok
<Legendario> i am going to help coringao on the english. ok, guys?
<pleia2> Legendario: sure thing, thanks for your help :)
<Legendario> no problem
<Technoviking> Legendario: thanks
<beuno> ok, Coringao, you're up
<Coringao> beuno, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Coringao
<Legendario> i am going to introduce him
<Legendario> he is the creator and administrator of the ubuntu games website
<Legendario> his been doing this specific work since 2005
<pleia2> wow, neat
<Legendario> creates tutorials to make easier the installation of games on ubuntu
<Legendario> also creates some debs for couple games
<Legendario> no piracy, just free software games
<greg-g> :) good deal
<greg-g> are these debs proposed to be included in the ubuntu repositories?
<Legendario> www.ubuntugames.org
<beuno> Coringao, you've done awesome work there!
<greg-g> I guess the better question is: are the debs in Debian or ubuntu? or are they a getdeb-type thing?
<Technoviking> Coringao: Any plans to add some of your tutorials to the Offical Ubuntu wiki?
<Legendario> they are included on the ubuntu games repository
<beuno> Coringao, the game installer is a a very cool project
<boredandblogging> Coringao: why not put them in the ubuntu repositories?
<Legendario> the ubuntu-sp LoCo team (which he am I are part of) are trying to include those tutorials on the wiki-br
<Pretto> greg-g, it's his own debs, just to make it easy to deploy the game, but not for make part of any repository because no policy are followed
<greg-g> Pretto: ah, thank you
<Ursinha> Legendario, are you sure the games are all free software? I saw tutorials about closed source games
<Ursinha> actually me and Coringao discussed a lot about that a few weeks ago
<greg-g> is it something that the ubuntugames group wants to do in the future? (put the debs in Universe)
<beuno> Coringao, are you interested in working towards including some of this work in Ubuntu proper, or is this something that you're mostly interested in keeping separate?
 * beuno high-fives greg-g 
<greg-g> beuno: :)
<Legendario> he is interested in getting those debs in the universe repositories, but he needs some help on that, on the english for exempla
<pleia2> that's great to hear :)
<boredandblogging> thats excellent
<Legendario> well, he is dictating me those things to me on skype, ok
<greg-g> awesome, we like more things in the officially supported repositories, makes everyone feel good :)
<Legendario> i agree ;-)
<beuno> Coringao, do you do any work in your LoCo?
<greg-g> Ursinha: did you see debs for closed source games or just tutorials?
<Legendario> yes, he is one of the administrators of the Ubuntu-SP LoCo team, with me and Christiano
<Ursinha> greg-g, I saw some closed source bios packaged, but I asked him to remove and he kindly did
<greg-g> Ursinha: ah, good deal, thanks for the info
<Ursinha> greg-g, np
<beuno> Coringao, plans for the future?
<Legendario> Put the debs on the official repositories, internacionalize the ubuntu games website (with the help of the ubuntu-sp loco team) and
<Ursinha> Legendario, not just the ubuntu-sp locoteam, he's welcome to work with the ubuntu-br as well, I offered that to him
<Legendario> keep helping on the loco team (meetings, support, advocating, etc)
<greg-g> ... good so far...
<greg-g> that is a good list of goals
<Legendario> his is already part of the ubuntu-br team
<Legendario> ursinha
<boredandblogging> ubuntu-sp is not part of ubuntu-br?
<Ursinha> Legendario,I'm saying I offered him help with his stuff
<Ursinha> boredandblogging, should be :)
<greg-g> cool, we'll I think we're ready to vote
<Legendario> <boredandblogging> yes, it is. ubuntu-sp is under ubuntu-br
<Legendario> hierachy
<pleia2> +1 from me, great work, Coringao!
<beuno> I'm +1, he seems to have done a lot of great things, and I'm looking forward to his future  :)
<Technoviking> +1 here, good work
<greg-g> Coringao: +1 from me, great work and I'm encouraged to see your future work!
<boredandblogging> +1
<beuno> that's 4. Coringao welcome to the amazing world of Ubuntu Members.
<pleia2> congrats, welcome Coringao :)
<Pretto> beuno, five not four
<greg-g> I count 5 :)
<Coringao> thanks a lot guys. I won`t dissapoint You
<greg-g> welcome Coringao
<cody-mobile> :-)
<Ursinha> Coringao, congrats!!!!
<Coringao> thanks
<Pretto> Coringao, congrats!!! now you are a member :D
<cr3> Coringao: keep bringing gaming to ubuntu, very exciting!
<beuno> Pretto, 4 out of 6 is majority, so we're approving at 4
<beuno> and it is 5  :)
<pleia2> bratsche: you're up! please give us a brief introduction and link to your wiki :)
<Legendario> you guys made the right choice!!!! ;-)
<Pretto> beuno, hehehheh
<bratsche> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CodyRussell
<bratsche> Hi, I'm Cody Russell.  I work for Canonical on the Ubuntu Desktop Experience Team.
<bratsche> I started just before the Jaunty release, did some notify-osd related work at that time, now I'm working on the Karmic release.
<bratsche> I'm writing xsplash, which is the new transition effect when you enter your desktop session.
<bratsche> And I'm supposed to be starting on some new effects and theming related stuff for the gdm session.
<bratsche> And in general working on widgets and trying to sexify things a bit more. :)
<bratsche> I do a lot of work upstream on gtk+ as well.
<jpds> Oh, the Big Ben guy.
<bratsche> haha, yeah.
<pleia2> bratsche: you say you're a long-time ubuntu user, before joining canonical what kinds of things were you working on? similar to your work now?
<greg-g> bratsche: thanks for the work to make Ubuntu a bit more attractive. Is there a LoCo team nearby to you? If so, have you participated in it much?
<bratsche> I'm a long-time Ubuntu user, but not a long-time Ubuntu developer.  Before joining Canonical I worked on gtk+ and some other upstream stuff, but I was working for a company called Medsphere developing an open-source medical system called OpenVista CIS (whose source is in launchpad if you care for it) ;)
<bratsche> greg-g: I'm not sure.. I just moved from Baltimore to Dallas a couple months ago and haven't looked into the LoCo team here yet.
<greg-g> ah, Dallas, they're are a few Ubuntu folks around there
<bratsche> Cool, I'll have to look into that.
<greg-g> yeah, good people, too. Like Mario L.
<boredandblogging> alright, I'm ready, +1
 * beuno is excusing himself from voting for any Canonical employees
<greg-g> +1 from me as well, good work
<pleia2> bratsche: thanks for making Ubuntu prettier! +1
<cr3> greg-g: superm1 rocks! I'd move to Dallas just to be in his loco team :)
<beuno> but bratsche is a great guy, that I can say  :)
<bratsche> heh, thanks :)
<greg-g> cr3: if I didn't think the Michigan team was the best, I would too :)
<Technoviking> +1 from me
<pleia2> congrats, welcome bratsche :)
<beuno> 4 votes
<bratsche> Thank you very much!
<beuno> woooo bratsche
<jpds> bratsche: Congrats!
<Pretto> bratsche, Congrats!!!
<Ursinha> congrats bratsche :)
<beuno> I see just see cr3 and Ursinha, in the queue, right?
<pleia2> right
<bratsche> Thanks very much, I appreciate your support!  I'll keep working hard to make Ubuntu rock (more).
<beuno> both Canonical employees, so that means I won't be voting anymore today  :)
<pleia2> cr3: you're up! :) please introduce yourself and post a link to your wiki page
<cr3> pleia2: thanks!
<beuno> anyone want to resign their jobs so I can vote for you?
<cr3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarcTardif
<bratsche> beuno: heh
<cr3> As you've noticed already, I have to mention that I actually work for Canonical where I was initially hired in support.
<cr3> I understand bueno's position, so I will try to focus on the personal work that I have contributed to the community above and beyond my work rather than resign right now.
<cr3> I've been using Ubuntu since Breezy and been actively testing Ubuntu since Dapper as can be seen from my Launchpad bug track record, which was not part of my initial work.
<greg-g> good choice
<pleia2> hehe
<cr3> I've also contributed test results to stgraber's ISO tracker on several occasions during my spare time for milestone releases, http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/.
<cr3> As a result of my testing, I started a personal project called Checkbox, https://launchpad.net/checkbox, which is now installed by default in Ubuntu.
<Ursinha> checkbox, sweet!
<cr3> Following my interest in improving the quality of Ubuntu, I eventually moved to the Platform QA team where I can test Ubuntu as part of my work and more. Yay!
<cr3> I've also participated in the preparation of the Ubuntu release parties since Edgy with MagicFab. These have attracted a surprising number of people in Montreal which require quite a bit of preparation such as burning images late at night and so forth.
<greg-g> awesome, I've been impressed with the Montreal crew
<cr3> I've also been very active in other communities around free software, but not related to Ubuntu, should I go into those details as well?
<pleia2> cr3: what is the best way to contact the Montreal team? we have a Pennsylvania fellow up there now and he's lost
<cr3> pleia2: #ubuntu-qc is good
<pleia2> cr3: cool, thanks!
<cr3> One of the reasons I would like to become an Ubuntu member is to share new ideas about testing and best practices which I've started exploring in my personal blog, http://cr3bits.wordpress.com/.
<greg-g> cr3: if you could just give an idea of the types of groups, that'd be cool, no need to make your case for them :)
<greg-g> hey, I'm a testing framework? never knew! http://cr3bits.wordpress.com/2009/06/23/test-result-codes/   :)
<cr3> greg-g: montreal perl mongers (organized several gatherings), FACIL (non profit organisation for the promotion of free software in the province of quebec where I chaired on the board of directors), organised several events like: copyright 2005 with RMS, libre a elle, etc.
<pleia2> perl mongers \o/
<cr3> some of these events attracted up to 300 people, and I was a significant organiser
<greg-g> that's a pretty good list. I remember you talking about a neat event around using licensed/un-licensed photos in a mural and spraying 'infringers' with water guns :)
<cr3> greg-g: dude, I didn't realize that was you! yeah, that was yet another event :)
<greg-g> yep yep :)
<greg-g> So, I think we're ready to vote
<cr3> While I'm listing contributions, I should also mention that I contributed GNU Bool, which is now part of the GNU Project
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-08-13
<greg-g> +1 from me, I especially love the way your started with your contributions outside of normal work, keep up the rocking work!
<boredandblogging> +1 awesome work!
<pleia2> +1 from me too, excellent work!
<greg-g> s/normal/canonical/ ;)
<cr3> greg-g: heh :)
<beuno> right, canonical work never qualifies as normal
<greg-g> indeed
<Ursinha> hehe
<Pretto> their employees neither :D
<Technoviking> +1 here
<pleia2> congrats, welcome cr3!
<greg-g> awesome, welcome aboard cr3 !
<cr3> Technoviking: now that I have your vote, I can finally suck up to you: love the nick!
<Pretto> cr3, Congrats!!!! Welcome aboard!
<cr3> thanks folks, my heart just jumped!
<Ursinha> congrats cr3 :)
<Ursinha> I'm shy to talk after cr3, he's done brilliant stuff
<cr3> Ursinha: I'm crossing my fingers for you now
<Technoviking> cr3: thanks:)
<pleia2> Ursinha: you're up!
<Ursinha> hi all
<Pretto> hi Ursinha :D
<Ursinha> let's go
<Ursinha> as some of you may know, my name is Ursula Junque, a.k.a. Ursinha
<Ursinha> I've been involved with Open Source since 2003 and working with that since 2006.
<Ursinha> my Ubuntu story started when I switched totally from Gentoo to Ubuntu Feisty, when started working with packaging and then advocating Ubuntu to everyone I could (my grandma and mother-in-law use Ubuntu :))
<Ursinha> I joined the Ubuntu Brazilian community in about April 2007, and since then, I've been around on irc, always trying to help the beginners - and not letting more experienced people to harass them
<Ursinha> after some time on irc, I was given the operator status of the #ubuntu-br channel
<Ursinha> I decided to help translations team, then I started doing translations, but realized I could be more helpful doing other stuff
<Ursinha> so, talking with Andre Gondim, the leader of translations team in Brazil, I created a script that maintains the brazilian translations wiki, making it reliable for people that want to help translating packages
<Ursinha> I've been maintaining it for several months now, and am working now in KDE and GNOME wiki pages, so we can coordinate better how to deal with upstream translations
<Ursinha> I've been also helping the ubuntu-br council and official members, supporting them with community stuff and on events such as FISL (Forum Internacional Software Livre), in which I gave a talk about "using Launchpad to help Ubuntu", in the ubuntu-br community track
<Ursinha> my spare time has being almost entirely dedicated to Ubuntu
<Ursinha> for the future, I intent to keep helping translations team and also docs team, that needs love. I've been also asked by one of the maintainers of APTonCD app to help on its development, so this will be one of my next steps working on helping improve ubuntu
<Ursinha> my wiki page is http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UrsulaJunque and my Launchpad page https://launchpad.net/~ursinha
<pleia2> impressive work, lots of great testimonials too :)
<Ursinha> pleia2, thanks :)
<Pretto> just for the record, she lives on IRC!!!! and she is always up to help
 * jpds cheers for Ursinha.
<Ursinha> :)
 * maco cheers for Ursinha too
<Ursinha> hey maco!
<Ursinha> :)
<greg-g> awesome cheering section, Ursinha
<Ursinha> :)
<greg-g> Ursinha: you say your spare time is spent on Ubuntu, but you also work for Canonical, are you worried about burn out?
<beuno> greg-g, Ursinha doesn't sleep, so that shouldn't be a problem
<beuno> she's on 24/7
<Ursinha> greg-g, actually not, because my job isn't directly related to what I do on free time
<Ursinha> lol
<greg-g> ahh, ok, that is a good way to stay sane, separating the fields of work
<Ursinha> I work on launchpad
<bratsche> I'm a fan of Launchpad. :)
<Ursinha> :)
<maco> oh so you just get annoyed at your dayjob when doing stuff in ubuntu for fun :P
 * Pretto is a fan of Ursinha :p
<greg-g> maco++
<Ursinha> hhahaha
<maco> "darn found a bug. will have to fix at work tomorrow"
<pleia2> +1 from me, awesome work, and thank you for being so thorough! I couldn't think of any questions to ask :)
<JanC> Ursinha: that translation wiki script might be useful for other teams too, I'm not sure how tied to the Brazil situation it is?  (but maybe we better talk about that outside the meeting)
 * leleobhz is a fan of Ursinha too
<Ursinha> JanC, I have a branch in launchpad, I'll give you the link after the meeting
<Legendario> i have been spectating Ursinha`s job on the translation team, just for record too!
<greg-g> +1 from me too, awesome work Ursinha.
<boredandblogging> +1, rockin'
<Ursinha> it's only tied to the way we managed the translations wiki
<Technoviking> +1 from me, a fantastic body of work, and maybe the largest cheering section I have seen for a candiate:)
<pleia2> woohoo, congrats and welcome Ursinha!
<Pretto> Ursinha, you rock!!! Congrats!!!
<greg-g> welcome aboard Ursinha
<Ursinha> thanks!!!!
<Ursinha> I may cry now
<cr3> Ursinha: you rock!
<leleobhz> wellcome to team Ursinha !
<leleobhz> u rockÂ²
<Ursinha> :')
<jpds> Ursinha: Congrats!
<Legendario> ursinha, congrats!!!
 * maco hugs Ursinha
<Pretto> congrats never ending
<Ursinha> thanks all of you!!!
 * Ursinha hugs everyone in the room :D
 * pleia2 hugs :)
<JanC> congrats Ursinha :-)
<Ursinha> JanC, thanks!
 * greg-g hugs Ursinha 
<leleobhz> congratulations! im very happy now, because she is a brave girl inside ubuntu brazilian community, help everybody anytime
<Pretto> Ursinha, you forgot to talk about #ubuntu-women-br :p
<beuno> is that a wrap?
<greg-g> I think that's a wrap
<Ursinha> what's a wrap?
<pleia2> thanks for coming everyone
<Technoviking> anyone show up late?
 * leleobhz want to congrat publically too Coringao 
<greg-g> thanks to everyone for coming, and one last round of applause for the new members!
 * pleia2 cheers
 * cr3 applauds
 * beuno waves
<Coringao> leleobhz, thanks my friend
<Pretto> hey new members, now you have a great responsibility on you
<leleobhz> Ubuntugames have a *GREAT* impact into brazilian computer users. i know a lot of people that experimented ubuntu and linux for first time because ubuntugames
<leleobhz> CONTRATULATIONS!
<Ursinha> beuno, I guess I'm the first female ubuntu member in Brazil
<Legendario> Ursinha, I think so...
 * leleobhz applaudsÂ²
<Pretto> time to go now :D
<Pretto> home is waiting
<beuno> Ursinha, doesn't suprise me that you break new ground
<leleobhz> Pretto: good night serenade
<Legendario> is the meeting over?
<Pretto> Legendario, yes :D
<Legendario> so, I am leaving the channel guys
<Legendario> congratulations for all the new members, specially the brazilian ones... ;-)
<Legendario> bye
<Ursinha> I think I'll hang here for a while, just to get used to the idea :)
<lbt> Afternoon all - lbt from Mer here :)
<lbt> I think lool mentioned a meeting re MID or similar around now-ish?
<lbt> persia` GrueMaster lool ....
<lool> lbt: hey
<lool> lbt: Didn't know we planned a meeting
<lbt> hey
<lool> But I'm available if needs be
<lbt> OK
<lbt> let me see if I can dig up who said it...
<geirha> Someone should make a bot that sets the next meeting in the topic
<nhandler> geirha: There was one. It just never got updated when the Fridge moved to Google Calendar
<lbt> [Friday 07 Aug 2009] [17:44:25] <ian_brasil> i will try to make the ubuntu mobile meeting next week and try to find out what is happening with MID
<lbt> [Friday 07 Aug 2009] [17:45:59] <ian_brasil> thursday in #ubuntu-meeting @ 13:00 UTC.
<lbt> does that help?
<Stskeeps> fridge claims it's at 21 i think
<lbt> OK be back later then :)
<lbt> lool:  thanks - appreciate the offer
<lbt> you around later?
<lool> lbt: The IRC meetings of the team are usually on Tuesday
<lool> Not thursday
<lool> If there was a special MID meeting I didn't get the worfd
<lbt> there is something on http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar
<lbt> for 21:00 GMT
<lool> That's too late for me   :-/
<lool> I'm on holidays starting tonight and am packing; it's 11pm my time and I had to stay up til 1am yesterday
<lbt> np - I'll catch you again
<lbt> have a good holiday!
<blizzkid> lo all. I missed the last regional boards meetings, and won't be able to make it to the next one. Is my only option to become a member to attend one of the meetings?
<Ursinha> blizzkid, I think so
<blizzkid> that's a pitty
<ziroday> blizzkid: you can attend one in another timezone
<blizzkid> ziroday: yeah, I've seen that, but unfortunately only one has a date set for the next meeting that isn't in the past, and that one I won't be able to attend :)
<blizzkid> the others' next meeting is in the past :)
<ziroday> blizzkid: one sec
<blizzkid> ok
<ziroday> well if I remember correctly Oceania holds a meeting every other tuesday
<ziroday> so next meeting being the 25th
<ziroday> as for EMEA your best bet is to read the logs from the last meeting, or poke someone on the membership council(?)
<blizzkid> yeah, I'll see if I can find it in the logs, or if I can poke someone, thx!
<ziroday> blizzkid: good luck
<blizzkid> ty
<greg-g> blizzkid: the America's board has meetings on the second wednesday of the month at 22:00 UTC, just fyi. We'll also do meetings more frequently if it is needed.
<blizzkid> greg-g: ok, so that'd be the second wednesday of September, I'll keep it in mind
<greg-g> blizzkid: yeah, we just had one last night :)
<blizzkid> greg-g: yeah, I saw it, I was too late :) Oth, I don't think (reading the logs) my wiki page will be considered sufficient
<greg-g> blizzkid: gotcha. If you have any questions about areas to improve, let me know.
<blizzkid> greg-g: ok if I send you the page url in pm?
<greg-g> blizzkid: go ahead
<blizzkid> greg-g: you still here?
<greg-g> I am
<Gnuet> 7wc
<blizzkid> greg-g: had time yet to look at the wiki page?
<blizzkid> I've been away for a while
<greg-g> blizzkid: not yet
<blizzkid> k, np :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-08-14
<Pretto> !now
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about now
<hggdh> !future
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about future
<hggdh> !past
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about past
<hggdh> ah, OK, it is Markovian
<dholbach> hello everybody
<dholbach> do we have gilir, apw and Yulia here?
<gilir> hi dholbach :)
<dholbach> soren, geser, persia`: want to chair?
<persia`> Sure.
<dholbach> super :)
<persia`> Someone else gets to do minutes :)
<persia`> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 02:01. The chair is persia`.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<persia`> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Council/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Council/Meeting
<persia`> Welcome to the MOTU Council meeting.
<persia`> [TOPIC] MOTU Application for Julien Lavergne (gilir)
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU Application for Julien Lavergne (gilir)
<persia`> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/gilir/MOTUApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/gilir/MOTUApplication
<dholbach> gilir: thanks for turning up and sorry for the meeting that didn't happen the last time
<dholbach> (although I was computer-less at the time and probably in the middle of Iceland somewhere... :-))
<dholbach> gilir: how are you doing?
<gilir> dholbach: fine thanks and you :)
<gilir> ?
<dholbach> I'm good, just a bit tired - thanks :-)
<dholbach> gilir: in your application you mention that you'd like to see more interaction between Ubuntu and Debian and not as much delta - how do you think we can get new developers to help out with that more effectively?
<dholbach> is it too hard? is it not understandable enough?
<gilir> dholbach: I think new developpers or new contributors don't know enough Debian, like how report bugs
<gilir> dholbach: sorry with my answers are a bit long, mpy english is not very good :)
<dholbach> don't worry, take your time :)
<dholbach> do you think it's documentation that's missing? or do we need better tools? or do we need more stories about collaboration? what do you think should we do? or what are you planning to do? :-)
<persia`> gilir, While I largely agree that bringing packages into sync is a good thing, could you give a few examples of changes that might not be suitable to push to Debian?
<gilir> and I think sometimes they forget to report an issue fixed on Ubuntu than can benefit to Debian too
<gilir> dholbach: yes maybe documentation,, but I'm sure it's mostly a question of habits
<gilir> persia`: modifications specific to Ubuntu, like firefox/iceweasel
<dholbach> gilir: we're very interested in making it easy to change those habits over time :-)
<gilir> persia`: IMO most of the modifications should go to Debian, the inverse is exception :)
<dholbach> geser, soren: do you have questions?
<persia`> gilir, OK.  I've a hypothetical for you.  Let's say there's a segfault in nautilus, and a patch in Ubuntu to fix it.  Should that go to Debian?  Why or why not?
<soren> dholbach: I do not.
<gilir> persia`: this should go upstream :)
<geser> dholbach: no questions
<gilir> persia`: except if it's a patch to fix a segfault due to a packging issue
<gilir> but I can't think of real case for this one :)
<persia`> gilir, OK.  How can we decide whether a given fix belongs upsteam or in Debian?
<gilir> persia`: for patches of the source, should go upstream instead of the changes is specific for Debian or Ubuntu (rename binary, special location of someting on the system)
<gilir> but if upstream is not active, or if the patch fix a important stuff, it can go to Debian also
<persia`> Well, I think it's often a good idea to send source patches also to Debian, but the answer I was looking for is that some packages (like nautilus) tend to be newer in Ubuntu than Debian, so the patches won't apply and that a rule of thumb to guess if this is the case is a version with -0ubuntuN.
 * persia` is done with questions.
<gilir> I have patches for gcc in mind, which fix FTBFS, for this example
<gilir> gcc/new version of gcc
<dholbach> I have no questions left either.
<persia`> [VOTE] MOTU Application for Julien Lavergne (gilir)
<MootBot> Please vote on:  MOTU Application for Julien Lavergne (gilir).
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<dholbach> +1 fantastic work!
<MootBot> +1 received from dholbach. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<soren> +1 (mostly based on endorsements)
<MootBot> +1 received from soren. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<persia`> +1 : Good endorsements, good range of packages uploaded.  Some very strong technical work in some of the uploads.
<MootBot> +1 received from persia`. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<persia`> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<persia`> gilir, Congratulations!
<dholbach> congratulations gilir and welcome to the team!
<gilir> thanks all :)
<dholbach> apw: are you around? if not, juli__ would be next
<persia`> [TOPIC] Kernel related packages upload permission for Andy Whitcroft (apw)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel related packages upload permission for Andy Whitcroft (apw)
<persia`> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AndyWhitcroft/KernelUploadsApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AndyWhitcroft/KernelUploadsApplication
<soren> I don't think he's here yet. I'll keep an eye out for him.
<persia`> apw, How are you this morning?
<persia`> OK.  Let's defer this then.
<persia`> [TOPIC] Netbeans related packages upload permission for Yulia Novozhilova (Juli)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Netbeans related packages upload permission for Yulia Novozhilova (Juli)
<persia`> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/YuliaNovozhilova/PerPackageUploaderApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/YuliaNovozhilova/PerPackageUploaderApplication
<persia`> juli__, How are you today?
<juli__> persia`, fine, thanks... a bit nervous though... how are you?
<persia`> I'm pretty good.
<persia`> juli__, Your package upload list is a lot longer than your request for packages to upload list.  Could you comment on why you selected the specific packages?
<juli__> I selected packages which I thing are netbenas specific
<juli__> the rest packages are just java libraries that can be useful for everybody... I would be happy to upload them as well but not sure it is ok since I apply for netbeans only
<juli__> and anyway, there will be new and new packages in the future:)
<juli__> since NetBeans needs a lot of external dependencies
<apw> apw here
<persia`> apw, We'll get back to you soonish then :)
<dholbach> juli__: in your application you mention that the java packaging team is too small - do you have any idea why that is?
<juli__> I believe it is small because ubuntu guys like python and another tools, but I'm really sure. I like java and completely don't understand such unfairness:)
<dholbach> is it too hard?
<juli__> I'm NOT really sure
<juli__> java?
<juli__> may be it is not easy in the beginning but then it is powerful and really cool
<dholbach> do you have any idea how we could attract more people to maintain java packages in Ubuntu?
<juli__> dholbach,  I believe java team is going to grow:)
<dholbach> I hope so too :-)
<dholbach> persia`, geser, soren: questions?
<persia`> juli__, Theother thing you indicate you dislike is that MOTU are too busy.  Do you have any suggestions as to how this can be resolved?
<juli__> dholbach, hmmm... the best way for me is to make Ubuntu the best, so people will want to package there tools
<juli__> persia`, more MOTUs?
<soren> dholbach: No, I'm good.
<juli__> I mean if there will be MOTU who are generally workink on sponsorship everything will be ok, I believe
 * persia` is done.
<persia`> dholbach, geser ?
<geser> no questions
<dholbach> me neither
<dholbach> sorry
<persia`> [VOTE] Netbeans related packages upload permission for Yulia Novozhilova (Juli)
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Netbeans related packages upload permission for Yulia Novozhilova (Juli).
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<persia`> +1 as might be obvious from my endorsement
<MootBot> +1 received from persia`. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<dholbach> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from dholbach. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<dholbach> soren?
 * persia` imagines a fiercely debated Danish caucus.
<persia> soren, Do you need questions reopened?
 * dholbach places a call to Denmark
<dholbach> soren says he's working on getting back
 * soren walks back into the room
<soren> GEez, sorry about that.
<soren> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from soren. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<soren> \o/
<persia> [ENDVOTE]
<persia> juli__, We'll recommend your application to the Technical Board.  good luck!
<dholbach> congratulations juli__ - the TB will be in touch with you soon! :)
<soren> One of my three routers/firewalls really doesn't like me this morning.
<juli__>  thanks guys!
<persia> [TOPIC] Kernel related packages upload permission for Andy Whitcroft (apw)
<dholbach> apw: excited? :)
<apw> here (this time!)
<persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AndyWhitcroft/KernelUploadsApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AndyWhitcroft/KernelUploadsApplication
<apw> first apologies for missing you at the start of the meeting, seems xchat wasn't connected to my proxy, doh.  technology who'd use it
<apw> yeah i am excited now ...
<dholbach> apw: so cjwatson says you're probably the most English person he knows... what could he possibly mean? does it have anything to do with "burning the candle from both sides"?
 * dholbach chuckles
<apw> heh, probabally more about the amount of tea i drink and my direct way of speaking :)
<dholbach> the endorsements were fun to read :)
<dholbach> so nothing we should aim to fix? :-)
<apw> a ton of things we should aim to fix for sure
<apw> for the kernel i think our biggest issue is the community, the disparity in the size thereof
<persia> apw, You win a prize: that has to be the most open bugs against an uploaded package I've seen for an applicant.  But you get a pass because it's the kernel.
<apw> and the ammount of change we have to spoon into each and every release
 * apw hides under a rock and hums 'i am a spider'
<apw> yeah we need to grow the community badly to help us, and we have been trying through our bug days
<apw> longer term i hope to be in a position to mentor some of those people into kernel maint.
<dholbach> apw: do you have any ideas about the ubuntu kernel community? how is the kernel community patch review coming on?
<apw> the communiuty is starting to help out, we have a couple of regular community contributers to our bug days
<apw> and we are starting to get the first pull requests from like the ports maintainers, and even audio
<apw> so i think we are getting part of the message across
<dholbach> I found that to be one of the biggest blockers in the "ubuntu minus the kernel" developer community, that stuff needs to get reviewed quickly and regularly
<apw> 'the kernel is a big package, but still a package'
<dholbach> is that an issue in the kernel world? like some kind of patch hand-holding?
<apw> one needs to be responsive when people find and offer patches true, but more of an issue is the quality of patches, or preveance
<apw> upstreams tend to produce a lot of deubg patches which work for platform A
<apw> but knowlingly break everything else, so the patch works for the tester and proposer
<apw> but is not acceptable in that form, so we seem a bit 'noo thats no good' if we are not careful
<apw> but those pointers are still invaluable, and we need to be better at hoovering them up
<dholbach> alright... that makes sense
<apw> that is one place where better mentoring of those helping triage can help us
<dholbach> apw: what did you personally find most challenging in the ubuntu kernel world in the beginning?
<apw> the shear compelxity of the packaging.  being full time dedicated to the team
<apw> meant i had a lot of access to mentoring, but even with documentation
<apw> the packaging is mind mangling, and you cannot see why its so compelxz
<apw> obviously its all there for something and you find out soon enought, but 'dammit how to i even test build this thing'
<apw> the communiuty then was much more closed too
<apw> we have worked a lot since the team is much larger to make it more open
<apw> as you can be closed in a small team and still function but we are now beyond that working
<apw> which is a good thing overall as we have better docs now, and a necessarily more enterable group/community
<apw> closed == dead in my view
<dholbach> maybe we need some kind of "Ubuntu Open Kernel Day" or something :-)
<dholbach> like open week
<persia> apw, You mention that you'd like a more robust method to carry several parallel kernels.  Do you have any ideas about how that might be implemented?
<dholbach> there's probably a lot (although there's more docs now) that people don't know yet
<apw> yeah not a bad though
<apw> the simple idea of having N kernels is not hugly difficult to achieve i recon we can use more of the version for the modules etc
<apw> the issue is the relationsips with abi consumers such as the proprietry graphics drivers
<apw> i think our first focus is moveing those all to a more reactive model, more dkms'y style updates
<apw> then we can change the kernel install to keep them 'all' or the last '5' or similar
<apw> we need a solution which is DKMS like but where we can pre-build them at kernel release time
<persia> Doesn't that have a significant performance impact on slower hardware?
<persia> Ah, that addresses that :)
<apw> to handle the netbooks though, as they are tooooo slow or small to have compilers
<apw> obviously someone versed in dark arts would have to bless such a thing
<apw> (legal)
<dholbach> I have no more questions.
<persia> Have you investigated Provides, as is used for X drivers?
<apw> no that i haven't
<persia> Could you share your opinion of the hardest part of packaging to work with, as applied to kernel packages?
<apw> udeb and the abi
<apw> the abi because it is always biting one when making test kernels when you least expect it
<apw> caused by its necessary dependance on having package output in the package source
<apw> and udebs, cause they are handled by kernel-wedge which makes the rest of the package looks simple
<apw> and the consumers of each are different subsystems, often not noticing an error there when the next live cd tests are done
<apw> the support for those in the rules are just nasty, copying trees about umpteen times to get clean packages
<apw> and often fragile to boot
 * persia is done with questions.
<persia> soren, geser ?
 * soren didn't even have any questions to begin with
<soren> :)
<geser> no questions
<soren> ..and still don't. Let's vote.
<persia> soren, While you never have questions, I insist on your right to qustions :)
<persia> [VOTE] Kernel related packages upload permission for Andy Whitcroft (apw)
<MootBot> persia, Only the meeting chair can do that
<soren> persia: Apppreciated :)
<persia> Um.
 * persia grumbles
<soren> He :)
<persia`> [VOTE] Kernel related packages upload permission for Andy Whitcroft (apw)
<MootBot> persia`, Either there isn't a meeting in progress, or there is already an active vote.
<dholbach> haha
 * apw laughs at technology
<dholbach> persia`: can you end the meeting?
<persia`> Right.  I don't care about MootBot.  Please vote.
<geser> persia` confused MootBot now totally
<soren> +1
<soren> Oh!
<soren> Di you end the last vote?
<persia`> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<soren> Mootbot just told me in /query that I already voted :)
<persia`> [VOTE] Kernel related packages upload permission for Andy Whitcroft (apw)
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Kernel related packages upload permission for Andy Whitcroft (apw).
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<dholbach> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from dholbach. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<soren> \o/
<soren> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from soren. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<persia`> I thought I had, but apparently not.
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<persia`> +1 from me : previous kernels seem to have not caused more annoyance than usual.
<MootBot> +1 received from persia`. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<persia`> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<geser> persia`: you had but as persia and not persia` so MootBot ignored you
<persia`> apw, We'll recommend to the Technical Board that you be granted the requested upload permissions.  Good luck!
<apw> thanks guys, and thanks for letting me on the menu at short notice
<soren> persia`: Scrollback reveals that you did send the command, but MootBot seemed to ignore it.
<dholbach> congratulations!
<persia`> geser, Ah.  That makes sense.
<apw> \o/
<persia`> OK.  Anyone else have anything they really, really, really want discussed at this meeting?
 * dholbach doesn't
 * soren neither
<geser> do we plan to have an impromptu meeting for cody today?
<dholbach> yes
<persia`> What time?
<dholbach> he said he'd be about at ~13 UTC
<persia`> [TOPIC] special session to review Cody Sommerville's application
<MootBot> New Topic:  special session to review Cody Sommerville's application
<persia`> [AGREED] A special meeting will be held at 13:00 UTC today.
<MootBot> AGREED received:  A special meeting will be held at 13:00 UTC today.
<persia`> Anything else?
 * dholbach needs to head out and walk the dog
<persia`> Well then.  To facilitate that:
<persia`> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 03:19.
<soren> \o/
<dholbach> the dog will appreciate it :)
<persia> Much better :)
<dholbach> see you later
<persia> Oh, who is processing these?
<dholbach> I can do it once I get back
<persia> Thanks.
<dholbach> see you
<czajkowski> persia: morning
<huats> gilir: congrats
<huats> !
 * slangasek waves
<heno> hey
<ttx> o/
 * apw fades in ... 
<apw> i will be subbing for pgraner for kernel
 * fader waves.
<Riddell> hi
 * ogra strands
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:01. The chair is slangasek.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<slangasek> we have a number of people off today (lool, pitti, rickspencer3, dendrobates, and it sounds like pgraner too)
<slangasek> but I think all the substitutions have been made in advance, so we can go ahead and get started :)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Actions from previous meetings
<MootBot> New Topic:  Actions from previous meetings
<slangasek> cjwatson: I recall that Gustavo was inconveniently on a plane when you went to talk to him about foundations-karmic-upgrade-support-in-landscape; has there been any follow-up since then?
<cjwatson> slangasek: yeah, I just did
<cjwatson> he said "We were not yet able to test it, but we do have it in our queue.  I'll bring this up here in the sprint to try to schedule it properly already."
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> I guess we'll leave that as an open item for next week, then
<slangasek> other action items were:
<slangasek>   * slangasek to look at 408901
<slangasek> done, in time for alpha-4
<slangasek>   * slangasek to follow up with ScottK off-line
<slangasek> also done
<slangasek>   * slangasek, cjwaston, doko to discuss robust-python-packaging further
<cjwatson> I don't think we did
<slangasek> still needs doing
<cjwatson> I'm in the middle of converting lsb-release to python-central include-links, pursuant to that
<ScottK> Actually I'm here
<slangasek> ScottK: I was quoting from last week's agenda
<ScottK> Right.  Noticed this after I replied.
<slangasek> cjwatson: is there more we need to discuss, or is the path clear now?
<slangasek> seems to me that there's agreement to carry this forward by converting the critical packages that need it
<cjwatson> I think so. Could you double-check with mvo, since he's the assignee on that spec? He's back next week, but I'm off next week
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> [ACTION] slangasek to check with mvo next week on foundations-karmic-robust-python-packaging
<MootBot> ACTION received:  slangasek to check with mvo next week on foundations-karmic-robust-python-packaging
<slangasek> [TOPIC] QA Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Team
<slangasek> heno, fader: diving right in, then - hi
<fader> Automated testing:
<fader> http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
<fader> Not much has changed since last week.  We're still seeing nautilus leave a crash log after startup but other than that we're looking pretty good.
<fader> mathben, the intern helping us test laptops in the Montreal office, has gotten the syslogs requested for bug 404264
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 404264 in linux "karmic installer fails to detect Intel 82567 network card" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/404264
<fader> The kernel team has asked us to look at some System76 bugs, so for those we have hardware for, we will be spending some time today going through and reproducing some of those:
<fader> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/system76/+bugs
<fader> Any questions about the testing?
<heno> ok, spec status:
<heno> * karmic-qa-increase-apport-adoption - I've nagged the LP team some more and been promised this for their next release. Marjo will follow up next week.
<heno> * karmic-qa-metrics-based-testing - Beta available. Keybuk and kirkland now have access to attachments from bootchart and power management testing
<heno> * karmic-qa-extended-audio-testing - fader has written some tests but will extend coverage further; on track for alpha 5
<heno> General spec status can be seen here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/RoadMap
<heno> that's all from QA - questions?
<slangasek> none from me; sounds like we're in good shape
<slangasek> heno, fader: thanks
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Desktop Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop Team
<seb128> hi
<slangasek> oh, I forgot to link to the agenda webpage earlier
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2009-08-14
<seb128> I'm new to this meeting so not sure about the format
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2009-08-14
<slangasek> there's that
<seb128> desktop side we landed GNOME 2.27.90 this week
<seb128> https://wiki.canonical.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/KarmicReleaseStatus for the dx work
<seb128> expect low activity next week
<seb128> rick will be back but pitti is still on vac
<seb128> robert_ancell and I are away too
<seb128> dxteam has some changes that didn't land this week coming though
<seb128> notably new fusa applet
<seb128> asac is around and dholbach will help on sponsoring
<seb128> so things should be in shape
<slangasek> seb128: reporting any relevant status on the topics in the agenda for your team, including using the opportunity to identify areas where other teams are blocking you; and identifying any potential trouble spots on your side that might cause problems for the release as a whole
<seb128> the new fusa is blocked on ted knowledge
<seb128> ie he's on vac and didn't communicate required infos
<seb128> but that should be solved next week
<slangasek> ok
<seb128> that should be all from us
<seb128> if you don't have question
<seb128> and sorry about the gtk uploads
<ogra> blocked on ted knowledge ? educate him !
<seb128> I wanted to fix client side issues before holidays
<slangasek> seb128: a number of the bugs under the Desktop heading on the agenda have been lingering for a while; can you prod people about paying attention to them? (or have pitti do so next week)
<slangasek> (e.g., I'd like my printer to work again some time before karmic is released :)
<seb128> we still turn low speed next week
<seb128> ie pitti is still on vac
<slangasek> ok
<seb128> we will catch up the week after that
<seb128> if you have anything urgent next week ping asac
<slangasek> some of these are in the hands of community members, in any case, and haven't seen activity for three weeks or more
<seb128> he will try to cover for us
<seb128> ok, I will have a look to those today and do some pinged and updates
<slangasek> ok, thanks
<seb128> pinged -> pinging
<ScottK> For desktop bugs, 339313 and 392593 are fix released as of a few hours ago.
<slangasek> seb128: I also added one bug to the bottom of that list after the meeting started, bug #403549, which seems to be the one throwing all of fader's desktop hw tests red
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 403549 in nautilus "nautilus crashed with SIGSEGV immediately after start up" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/403549
<slangasek> so if someone has a chance to look at that one, I'm sure QA would appreciate it
<slangasek> ScottK: ah, nice!
<seb128> I'm not sure if that's not a crash at shutdown
<seb128> but I will ping upstream about this one
<seb128> crash are shutdown tend to trigger apport on next login
<seb128> ie it's annoying but not a real issue
<slangasek> seb128: right - but it's a real issue in that the test harness can't tell the difference, so we either need to resolve it or have fader ignore the /var/crash check
<fader> If that result is an issue we can disable the test in our automated testing until the upstream issue is fixed; I'm just concerned we might miss other crashes
<slangasek> fader: well, traditionally we resolve segfaults on shutdown by turning off apport at release time <cough>
<fader> Heh
<slangasek> but if we were to ignore /var/crash/_usr_bin_nautilus*, perhaps that would be enough
<seb128> we would ignore lot of valid crashes
<seb128> we could add a bug pattern
<seb128> to stop those to be filed
<slangasek> seb128: the hw testing checks for files in /var/crash, it's unrelated to whether bugs actually get filed
<seb128> we lack a way to use bug patterns there
<fader> slangasek: I'd add to that that the assumption is that I or someone else will see those crashes and file a bug if necessary, so it's (hopefully) not just noise
<seb128> ie have a whitelist
<seb128> but right if it doesn't get solved I will hack the nautilus hook
<slangasek> ok, sounds like we could benefit from more out-of-band discussion of this problem
<seb128> to ignore those
<seb128> right
<slangasek> [ACTION] seb128 and fader to discuss options for working around nautilus crash on shutdown in hw testing lab
<MootBot> ACTION received:  seb128 and fader to discuss options for working around nautilus crash on shutdown in hw testing lab
<slangasek> anything else for Desktop?
<seb128> no
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Mobile Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Mobile Team
<slangasek> seb128: thanks!
<seb128> you're welcome
<ogra> i'm here on behalf of the mobile team but probably not up to date on all issues
<ogra> * UNR: is pretty much on track, no special issues i know
<ogra> * freescale-desktop: currently blocked by manoao not being able to produce livefses (bug 412757) lamont is researching options for upgrading/fixing manoao atm
<ogra> * freescale-desktop: waiting for kernel renaming to the in jaunty used -imx51 instead of -babbage to keep a consistent naming scheme
<ogra> * marvell-desktop: waiting for kernel, supposed to land on monday, NCommander to add image build scripts to build infrastructure after that
<ogra> * lool worked on a status overview at http://people.canonical.com/~lool/mobile-status.html
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 412757 in linux-fsl-imx51 "imx51 squashfs as built on the armel livefs builder is broken" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/412757
<slangasek> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~lool/mobile-status.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~lool/mobile-status.html
<ogra> thats all i can report atm, if there are questions, try to ask me :)
<ogra> we sadly missed A4 for armel due to the builder breakage
<slangasek> ogra: perhaps we should talk through the kernel renaming while we're all here, to make sure we're all in agreement about what to expect after the next kernel upload?
<ScottK> KDE is now building nicely on armel.
<ogra> well, the kernels are supposed to support the full set of the subarch
<ScottK> Just a couple of build failures for someone to dig into.
<ogra> so naming the flavour after a single board isnt really appropriate
<slangasek> apw: are you in the loop on the linux-fsl-imx51 renaming discussion?
<apw> i am aware of the issues, not 100% on the details of the resolution
<ogra> and i think there was agreement from the kernel team when we discussed it on wed.
<ogra> its only about binary names though, nobody in the mobile team cares about the source name i guess
<ogra> given that they are separated from the main sourcepackage anyway
<slangasek> it's cheaper to double-check the details of that agreement than to have to go through an extra kernel upload cycle if something doesn't match as expected :)
<ogra> right, we want to have -imx51 and -dove kernels
<apw> so i assume the babbage->imx51 is appropriate and the other
<ogra> and the respective metapackages
<ogra> afaik -dove is the name of the SoC
<apw> ahh ok so -dove ... i will check with tim that the names are getting sorted
<apw> and imx51 is the soc for the other right?
<ogra> right
<slangasek> -dove is going to be from a separate source package, right?
<slangasek> (due to patch load)
<apw> slangasek, yes that is correct
<ogra> as imx51 is
 * ogra hopes that this will enable us as well to have images earlier next release, even with old kernels until the patches land
<slangasek> so we can expect linux-image-2.6.31-0-imx51 / linux-headers-2.6.31-0-imx51 and linux-image-imx51 / linux-headers-imx51 in the next round?
<ogra> thats what i would expect, yes
<apw> i will check up on that and get it confirmed
<slangasek> ah, currently we have linux-fsl-imx51-headers-2.6.31-0-babbage rather than linux-headers-2.6.31-0-babbage - I think it would be simpler to have it consistent (avoids extra special-casing in the meta packages), but that won't affect anything on the archive side
<slangasek> (unlike the image packages, which *need* to be named linux-image-*)
<ogra> additionally we also have the old -imx51 packages
<ogra> that results in intresting content on the current livefs :)
<apw> slangasek, yes we are looking to match your pattern there, the headers part is still ourstanding
<ogra> because the -imx51 header packages end up but your have linux-babbage as the kernel
<ogra> *end up in the image
<ogra> slangasek, even linux-image-2*
<ogra> at least thats what livecd-rootfs expects
<slangasek> ScottK: is there demand for including KDE armel images in the alphas?  I've certainly been treating that like any other port for alphas, i.e., roll them if everything else is done and otherwise people can use dailies
<ScottK> slangasek: We had some interest last cycle, not so much in Karmic, but we've also been broken on armel until roughly today.
<slangasek> ogra: I wonder why those old imx51 packages are there, either; seems like that needs to be cleaned up in the linux source package
<ogra> well, we will only support two subarches this round
<slangasek> otherwise, linux/linux-meta will shortly be FTBFS on armel, generating gratuitous mails to the kernel uploaders
<slangasek> ScottK: right
<ScottK> I've been thinking it might make more sense to have kubuntu-netbook images on armel now that we've switched to plasma-netbook
<ogra> slangasek, yes, definately i only noticed it today during my squashfs debgging
<slangasek> ScottK: that sounds like a plan; talk in #ubuntu-release later?
<ScottK> It's significantly lighter
<ScottK> Sure.
<ogra> doe it run properly in framebuffer ?
<ogra> note that we dont have any X drivers for any of the arches
<ScottK> I don't know.
<slangasek> any other questions for Mobile?
<ogra> not to talk about GL or composite
<slangasek> ogra: if bug #391588 isn't critical for karmic, perhaps someone could tweak its release targeting or severity
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 391588 in banshee "banshee fails to run on arm" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/391588
<ScottK> ogra: Offline, If there's a way to test how it works in a framebuffer without having actual armel hardware, I'd like to discuss it.
 * ogra looks at what it is atm
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Kernel Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Team
<slangasek> ogra: thanks
<ogra> :)
<slangasek> apw: and hello
<apw> hello
<apw> Overall kernel team status is summarised here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic including the bugs called out.  The ecryptfs bug has a plan in place and progressing.  The Intel boot issue is looking improved in later 2.6.31 kernels so we have hope of isolating the change.
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<apw> All items which impact the distro release schedule seem to be on track at this time.  A fair proportion of the blueprints are now put to bed.  ARM development has been pulled out onto separate enablement branches to decouple the main distro architectures from ARM churn.  ARM itself is now back on track.  Apparmour is still carrying a couple of issues relating to looped back filesystems such as ecryptfs and aufs, there is a plan in place for that,
<apw>  generally security is happy with the feature set for release.  The mainline kernel is progressing on schedule so we do not anticipate any issues getting v2.6.31 in the can in time for our release.
<slangasek> apw: any ETA on the ecryptfs issue, by chance?
<apw> i don't know off the top of my head, but can find out.  i think the work around is at the easy end
<slangasek> ok
<apw> and the proper fix is pretty hard so going to be a while
<ttx> apw: About bug 410198, it's blocking important features for Eucalyptus, so it might make sense to target it for the next milestone ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 410198 in linux "'modprobe aoe' on Karmic kernel oopses with AOE device from Jaunty" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/410198
<apw> alpha-4 i done, so A-5
<ttx> sure.
<slangasek> apw: thanks, no other questions here (having spent half the mobile slot talking about kernel :)
<apw> ttx, thanks for the heads up.  that driver looks a bit broken to my eye ... will get it reported upstream etc
<slangasek> any other questions for the kernel team?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Server Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server Team
<slangasek> apw: thanks
<ttx> o/
<ttx> I updated Server release status at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
<ttx> The likewise-open5 targeted bug we had was fixed for alpha4
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
<ttx> We expect to land Eucalyptus 1.6 early next week... that should allow finalization of a lot of specs
<slangasek> does that mean all the MIRs for eucalyptus are also done by next week?
<slangasek> or is that landing in universe only?
<ttx> slangasek: in universe. MIR effort is in progress
<slangasek> any ETA for having the MIRs all done
<slangasek> ?
<ttx> slangasek: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EucalyptusInMainSpec/Packages tracks that effort
<slangasek> (are they all filed?)
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EucalyptusInMainSpec/Packages
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EucalyptusInMainSpec/Packages
<ttx> slangasek: 43 of them are ready for review yes
<slangasek> ok
<ttx> over a total of 60
<ttx> rather than filing individual MIRs, we decided to track exceptions to the regular simple no-brainers
<cjwatson> ttx: FWIW http://paste.ubuntu.com/253220/ is the current eucalyptus installer patch I have; still a WIP
<cjwatson> oops, sorry, meant that to be a /msg but I don't suppose it matters
<ttx> cjwatson: ideally we would find a way to test it without all MIR finalized
<cjwatson> that's easy
<ttx> so that landing is without surprise
<cjwatson> the installer can install stuff from universe
<ttx> ah :)
<cjwatson> but I'm off all next week so it may be tricky
<ttx> cjwatson: heh
<ttx> sounds like something we would land the next week anyway
<ttx> any other questions ?
<slangasek> mdz had to step out, but asked me to do a status check on EUC/EC2 publishing changes for alpha-4 that he's requested by email
<mdz> (I'm here for the next 7 minutes)
<slangasek> oh
<slangasek> :)
<slangasek> 08:10 <mdz> testing/karmic/alpha4 tweak (slangasek)
<slangasek> 08:10 <mdz> AWS page (smoser)
<slangasek> 08:10 <mdz> HEADER.html (smoser, update in #server)
<slangasek> 08:11 <mdz> UEC setup doc (soren)
<slangasek> mine I just saw in email before the meeting; I'll follow up shortly after we're done here
<mdz> HEADER.html looks good now, smoser made a few further tweaks to pretty it up
<slangasek> I saw smoser had a draft HEADER.html which looked good, right, guess that's live now
<mdz> I don't know the status of the AWS page, and I believe smoser had to step out
<mdz> soren: can you speak to the UEC/Eucalyptus setup doc?
<ttx> mdz: soren is out as well.
<mdz> ttx: could you follow up with them on these items for me?
<mdz> ttx: I'll forward you a copy of the email thread if you like
<ttx> mdz: i will. Please forward the thread my way.
<slangasek> [ACTION] ttx to follow up with soren, smoser regarding AWS page and UEC setup doc for mdz
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ttx to follow up with soren, smoser regarding AWS page and UEC setup doc for mdz
<slangasek> anything else for the server team?
<mdz> ttx: thanks
<ScottK> slangasek: It'd be good to get clamav copied to jaunty-updates
<ScottK> I'm waiting that for updating the backports.
<ScottK> (dapper/hardy/intrepid)
<slangasek> ScottK: I've got a bit of SRU processing to catch up on, covering for pitti while he's out; I'll have a look this afternoon
<ScottK> Thanks
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Foundations Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations Team
<slangasek> ttx: thanks
 * ttx disappears
<slangasek> cjwatson: hi
<cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<cjwatson> we have a slight increase in our high-priority bug pile, but I think they're mostly under control
<cjwatson> mostly we have spec fever
<cjwatson> cloud setup is running late but (now) under control we think
<cjwatson> zsync is late and may end up in a PPA
<cjwatson> (given that it has LP requirements anyway)
<cjwatson> a few things are waiting for mvo to get back from paternity leave before we know whether they need to be deferred or not
<cjwatson> (though those are medium-priority)
<cjwatson> and the python packaging stuff we already discussed above
<cjwatson> slangasek: how late can multiarch feasibly be pushed without risking quality problems?
<slangasek> cjwatson: IMHO we can go at least as late as alpha5 (a week past feature freeze) for the package manager bits without problems; much later than that and I would have to start worrying
<cjwatson> mm, our release status page currently has it at alpha6
<cjwatson> feel free to edit :-)
<slangasek> yeah, will do
<robbiew> well it would be delivered in alpha 6
<robbiew> if it's a week past alpha 5
<slangasek> robbiew: a week past feature freeze == alpha 5; probably not past alpha 5
<slangasek> (I'm revising my earlier opinion based on the rate of dpkg development, here)
<robbiew> ah, right
<slangasek> status looks good to me, otherwise (and about as I expected :)
<slangasek> anything else for Foundations?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] MOTU
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU
<slangasek> cjwatson, robbiew: thanks
<slangasek> ScottK: I see from the mailing list that there's been motu-release activity
<ScottK> yes.
<ScottK> We now have a full team and are getting organized
 * slangasek nods
<ScottK> No progress on the listed bugs.
<ScottK> AFAIK our ocaml and ghc6 transitions are moving along.
<slangasek> actually, 399013 seems to be fixed now, I failed to check that status before the meeting
<slangasek> so that's good. :)
<ScottK> Nothing else to report I don't think
<slangasek> any areas that you think we should be throwing more manpower at?
<slangasek> I've been hitting the NBS list hard this week, there's still a lot to churn through
<ScottK> I need to think about that.
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> I did a little bit of followup with some people on it.
<ScottK> boost is done as soon as you punt 1.35 out of the archive.
<slangasek> archive uninstallables / FTBFS probably need some attention after that
<ScottK> Yes.
<slangasek> excellent \o/
<ScottK> There are two rdepends left but they are broken for other reasons so lacking boost1.35 doesn't make them worse.
<slangasek> ok
<ScottK> I kicked off a huge stack of armel rebuilds yesterday and they are mostly working.
<ScottK> So that'll help some.
<ScottK> I'd need to think about where to focus more manpower.
<ScottK> Ruby seems somewhat broken.
<slangasek> howso?
<ScottK> rails FTBFS and I didn't have a chance to look into it yet
<ScottK> I need to run, so I'll try to get back to you after I've looked things over a bit.
<slangasek> ok, thanks for the update
<slangasek> [TOPIC] ISO size
<MootBot> New Topic:  ISO size
<slangasek> I poked a couple of comments into the agenda about this, which probably speak for themselves
<slangasek> we had to drop some more langpacks from the CDs to make everything fit for alpha-4, so that's not happy
<slangasek> and part of this was because gnome-bluetooth landed, for a size of around 400K (incl. dependencies) rather than the ~120K we had for bluez-gnome
<slangasek> as part of this, we now have two separate obex servers on the CD because different things depend on different implementations :(
<slangasek> so there's some duplication cleanup to be done there, definitely
<slangasek> anyone else know of things we should be targeting to get off the CDs?
<slangasek> <crickets>
<slangasek> ok, something to think about as we go, as usual :)
<slangasek> [AOB]
<slangasek> anything else before we break?
<slangasek> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:17.
<slangasek> thanks, all
<apw> thanks slangasek
<heno> thanks
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-08-16
<kees> jdstran, mdeslaur, sbeattie: meetin' time?
<mdeslaur> kees: yessir
<kees> okidoky. i'm still reorganizing after conferences
<kees> openjdk is out
<kees> i'm going to spend this week auditing the kernel some more
<kees> and writing trip reports :)
<sbeattie> kees: hey
<kees> oops, forgot to wait for everyone
<jdstrand> o/
<kees> whee
<kees> okay, that's it from me, basically. mdeslaur is up
<jjohansen> \o
<mdeslaur> whoops, sorry
<mdeslaur> so, I just did my trip report
<mdeslaur> and have freetype updates pending, just need to test them
<mdeslaur> and will be pushing apache2 that fixes CVE-2009-3555 to the sec-upd-proposed PPA. Once that's done, I'll do some openssl/apache2 testing and then we'll push them to -proposed
<ubottu> The TLS protocol, and the SSL protocol 3.0 and possibly earlier, as used in Microsoft Internet Information Services (IIS) 7.0, mod_ssl in the Apache HTTP Server 2.2.14 and earlier, OpenSSL before 0.9.8l, GnuTLS 2.8.5 and earlier, Mozilla Network Security Services (NSS) 3.12.4 and earlier, multiple Cisco products, and other products, does not properly associate renegotiation handshakes with an existing connection, which allows man-in-the-middle att
<mdeslaur> and I'll be testing virt-manager to make sure it works okay with jdstrand's new libvirt
<mdeslaur> that's it from me for this week
<mdeslaur> jdstrand?
<jdstrand> hey
<jdstrand> as mdeslaur implied, I got libvirt merged in maverick last week
<jdstrand> that has the fixes for what I plan to have in the security update, and I haven't seen any bugs for people upgrading (good)
<jdstrand> so I plan to work on libvirt this week, get koffice out today and shadow kees. I may pick up something from the queue if I have time
<jdstrand> that's it from me
<jdstrand> sbeattie: you're up
<sbeattie> last week, I published my first USNs, for openldap and w3m.
<jdstrand> \o/
<sbeattie> (finally!)
<kees> jdstrand: smb is working on kernel patches, but we're blocked a bit by 10.04.1 so we're jumping over what's in proposed
<sbeattie> I also fixed up the mysql-testsuite to work properly in maverick and in doing so, fixed up an issue with its apparmor profile.
<sbeattie> I then integrated the testsuite into qa-r-t, though it takes about 2 hours to run here.
<kees> sbeattie: \o/
<sbeattie> I'm on triage this week, though I'm taking 1.5 days off at the end of the week (going camping)
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: whaaaaaaa...you don't bring your laptop with you on camping trips? :)
<kees> heheh
<sbeattie> mdeslaur: heh, actually, I'm planning on taking it in to the shop to get the backlight fixed while I'm out.
<sbeattie> (since I didn't get around to it last week)
<sbeattie> That's it for me.
<sbeattie> Does anyone else have anything to raise with the security team?
 * kees looks around
<robbiew> I think that's a no
<robbiew> lol
<kees> okay then, all done; thanks everyone!
<mdeslaur> thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-08-17
<nisshh> ejat: havent missed the meeting have i?
<ejat> yups
<nisshh> ejat: i have?
<persia> Depends on the meeting.  There's one starting about now, but it may not be that which you seek.
<nisshh> persia: membership meeting?
<Vantrax_> re my email connected on my phone atm - net down
<persia> nisshh, Yes.
<nisshh> cool
<Vantrax_> persia can you run the meeting?
<nisshh> was lucky, i only got home about 20 minutes ago
<persia> Vantrax_, Sure.
<nisshh> hopefully there are enough council members here this time :)
<elky> and I make quorum. Can we try do this quickly please, I need to be at a bus stop soonish or I'll be waiting quite some itme.
<persia> lifeless, freeflying takdir: also here?
<freeflying> persia: yes
<persia> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 05:04. The chair is persia.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/AsiaOceania
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/AsiaOceania
<elky> ooh, we have quorum + 1?
<elky> (is it 4 or 5?)
 * persia doesn't see prabhash
<Vantrax_> fyi I just msged persia with my votes. really hard to follow this on a smartphone
<elky> wers isn't here either by the looks
<persia> elky, I think 4, but 5 is better :)
<Vantrax_> 4 is req
<persia> That makes it easy then :)
<elky> persia, nisshh is our only here atm
<ejat> 0/
<nisshh> dunno where the other guy is
<persia> [TOPIC] Membership application for Ryan Macnish
<MootBot> New Topic:  Membership application for Ryan Macnish
<persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RyanMacnish
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RyanMacnish
 * Vantrax_ will follow along as best he can
<persia> nisshh, Could you introduce yourself?
<nisshh> ok
<nisshh> my name is Ryan Macnish, iv been using ubuntu for 2 years now
<nisshh> :)
<nisshh> did you want more or is that ok?
<elky> Uh. Is there nothing else?
<leoquant> .........
<nisshh> oh ok
<elky> nisshh, you're supposed to convince us why you deserve membership with your introduction.
<nisshh> well, as for stuff iv been doing
<nisshh> oh right
<nisshh> im very active with the Ubuntu Manual team
<Vantrax_> sumary of cont is normal
<nisshh> wrote a portion of the original manual
<nisshh> i lead development of the developers manual
<lifeless> persia: hi
<nisshh> i have contributed to Quickly and Quickly-widgetas
<nisshh> i have my own app
<nisshh> called Pytask
<nisshh> all the obove is on my wiki page BTW
<nisshh> above*
<nisshh> and recently i joined the bugsquad and have been dabbling in triaging :)
<nisshh> i also hang out on IRC alot of the time
<nisshh> and have plans for far more contributions next year
<nisshh> id say thats about it
<nisshh> for now anyway :)
<elky> while we're thinking of questions, is there anyone here to cheer you on?
<nisshh> elky: well there was supposed to be, hang on
<nisshh> some of them will be here shortly
<nisshh> there
<gorilla> Hi.
<nisshh> gorilla: thanks for coming
 * gorilla was dragged here..
<nisshh> heh
<elky> What do you folks have to say about nisshh's contributions?
<nisshh> Blank__: daker say hi
<daker> hi
<nisshh> darkrose: ^^^
<nisshh> ChrisWoollard: ^^^
<Vantrax_> I think I remember humpherybc gave you a testimonial... rather glowing
<Vantrax_> bah phone call brb
<nisshh> yea
<nisshh> so did another from the manual team
<nisshh> daker: can you say something about my contributions, for the council please?
<ChrisWoollard> hello
<nisshh> persia: sorry, about the delay, daker wandered off
<daker> sorry
<nisshh> ChrisWoollard: hey, can you support me while i go for membership?
<persia> Well, let's move on, before the council wanders off :)
<ChrisWoollard> Yes, I can support you
<nisshh> thanks
<nisshh> persia: yea ok
<nisshh> persia: i guess questions from the council are next?
<gorilla> Hi All, I'd support nisshh's further involvement in ubuntu.
<persia> nisshh, So, I'm having a bit of trouble finding your work with bugsquad or code (aside from 2 bugs and helpful textual updates for quickly).  Do you have any links that could help me?
<elky> ChrisWoollard, what can you say for nisshh's contributions?
<nisshh> persia: not really, i have only done a few bugs so far, but my mentor kermiac
<Blank__> and i'd second gorilla's statement
<nisshh> he isnt around atm though
<ChrisWoollard> Nissh is a key member of the ubuntu manual project.
<elky> Folks, we need you to say "this is what i've seen nisshh do" rather than "yes, i know nisshh".
<nisshh> persia: due to this being called at short notice, alot of people who were supporting me arent around atm
<ChrisWoollard> He takes part in meetings. Helps with bugs.
<ChrisWoollard> He is always aroun on  irc and helps anybody that has issues.
<gorilla> nisshh also help with queries on #ubuntu-au.
<nisshh> ChrisWoollard: what about my work on the manual?
<Blank__> unfortunately i'm not really aware of nisshh's work :(
<persia> elky, lifeless, ejat, freeflying, Vantrax_: more questions?
<ChrisWoollard> He is part of the core team of the ubuntu-manual project.
<nisshh> persia: most people here atm are from my loco, so they dont know about some of the stuff i do
<ejat> nisshh: beside ubuntu manual project .. did u involve in loco activity?
<nisshh> only daker and ChrisWoollard are from the manual team
<ejat> physically or virtually ... ?
<nisshh> ejat: yes, although more recently, and mostly virtually, because im one of the few who is regionally based
<Vantrax_> loco in this country kinda sucks, best bet is usually lugs
<nisshh> ejat: most of the guys in the loco are east coast aussies, im west coast
<freeflying> no for me
<Vantrax_> that being said I have seen nisshh active in the ubuntu-au chan
<ejat> anything that u have done in west coast ? meetup/party/jam or etc. ?
<ChrisWoollard> Nissh authored the command line chapter of the manual. He also has responsibility for the glossary and index.
<nisshh> ejat: nothing physical, as far as i know, im the only active loco member over here
<ejat> nisshh: ic ..
<Vantrax_> nisshh probably true, I would look into lugs and LCA
<ChrisWoollard> As well as that is a Lead on the Ubuntu Dev Manual.
<nisshh> ejat: and there are no tech events/linux confs over here as well
<nisshh> Vantrax_: iv contacted the Perth LUG it is dead as far as i can tell
<Vantrax_> how unfortunate
<Vantrax_> I'm good to vote
<persia> Right then:
<elky> lets vote
<persia> [VOTE] Approve Ryan Macnish as an Ubuntu Member
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Approve Ryan Macnish as an Ubuntu Member.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<Vantrax_> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Vantrax_. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<elky> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from elky. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<lifeless> abstain
<ChrisWoollard> Am I allowed to vote for him?
<nisshh> ChrisWoollard: no, only council is
<lifeless> ChrisWoollard: council members only
<ChrisWoollard> np
<Vantrax_> that is +0 life
<lifeless> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from lifeless. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2
<persia> -1 : This is a wonderful start, but I'd like to see more clearly documented work, or more testimonials (especially from current Ubuntu Members).
<MootBot> -1 received from persia. 2 for, 1 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1
<ejat> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from ejat. 2 for, 1 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 1
<elky> Sorry nisshh :(
<persia> freeflying, ?
<freeflying> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from freeflying. 2 for, 1 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 1
<Vantrax_> I would call that a come back again unless free votes yes
<persia> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 2 for, 1 against. 3 abstained. Total: 1
<nisshh> persia: there would have been more testimonials, if i had have had more notice for the meeting :)
<Vantrax_> get some more testimonials
<elky> nisshh, i told you last week...
<Vantrax_> yeah my bad
<nisshh> elky: you did, but i didnt realise, it was going to be at this time
<nisshh> my fault
<Vantrax_> was in the calendar in fridge but I didn't update the page
<nisshh> yea
<Vantrax_> been a crazy week
<nisshh> so i had to get 3 or 4 votes yea?
<elky> nisshh, wiki pages just need a deadline. get started on collecting votes there now
<persia> nisshh, They happen every two weeks, at this time.  If you have links to stuff and testimonials in two weeks, I won't be unhappy to see you.  That said, take as long as you need to get it right.
<elky> nisshh, 3
<nisshh> ok
<Vantrax_> we will be again same time ina fortnight
<elky> nisshh, also, next time have a nice intro pre-prepared like the wiki says to ;)
<nisshh> persia: yea, i would have had probably 3-4 UM's here
<nisshh> had i had more time
<ejat> agreed with elky ;)
<ChrisWoollard> I should probably go for this at some point also.
<nisshh> elky: yea, i forgot about that, ill get that sorted
<elky> nisshh, a wiki testimonial is just as good as people attending. really, i promise
<Vantrax_> if you need help feel free to send me an email
<nisshh> cool
 * persia prefers wiki testimonials, as they tend to be clearer, and the result of more thought
<nisshh> Vantrax_: thanks for the offer, i might get you to see what you reckon later this week
 * Vantrax_ agrees with persia
<nisshh> persia: yea
<Vantrax_> np nisshh
<nisshh> cool
<persia> OK then.  Anything else to cover, or are we done for this time?
<Vantrax_> one thing
<Vantrax_> time rotation for meetings
<persia> [TOPIC] time rotation for meetings
<nisshh> thanks for coming daker ChrisWoollard darkrose Blank__ gorilla and anyone else :)
<MootBot> New Topic:  time rotation for meetings
<ChrisWoollard> Np
<Vantrax_> making every second one an hour later to make it easier for asia
<persia> Vantrax_, The main issue we had last time we discussed this was a lack of west-asians, who could fill for good times when the antipodeans were sleeping.
<elky> ok, i'm off ciao
<persia> If y'all want to stay up late, I'm sure we'd get more applicants :)
<Vantrax_> hrm
<persia> elky, Good night.
<ejat> Vantrax_: u mean minus 1 1/2 hour from 10 UTC ?
<ejat> elky: nite ..
<nigelb> persia: I agree. Most of you folks seem to be much easter than rest of asia ;)
<gorilla> easter?
<nigelb> more east rather
<persia> more easterly
<Vantrax_> it would be one hour later so 11 utc
<nigelb> The meetings end up falling during working hours or commuting hours.
<gorilla> nigelb: ahh.
<persia> 11 UTC is still only 16:30 IST, which means folks are still at work
<Vantrax_> I'm east coast aus so if 8 can stay up you all can:P
<nigelb> working hours => fine.  Commuting hours => Not so much.
<Vantrax_> hrm
<Vantrax_> so if it was 12 utc?
<persia> And some folks are in UTC+12 just now
<nigelb> Its a tough call to make though.
<nigelb> Any hour will have its own oppositions.
<persia> (UTC+13 come summer)
<Vantrax_> yeah those poor kiwis
<ejat> 12 UTC = 8pm in MY
<lifeless> its 11pm now
<nigelb> Move it up then?
<lifeless> I can continue to make 10pm meetings
<lifeless> I can't make 11pm ones.
<persia> Best would be to have one about 9 UTC, and another at around 13 UTC, but that requires a balance of council members who can be awake then
<lifeless> because I have early meetings too.
<lifeless> don't block on me though
<persia> lifeless, Do your other meetings move in the summer, or can you just not make these then?
<lifeless> just be aware i can't contribute to later times.
<Vantrax_> yes, maybe even boosting the council numbers to have coverage
<lifeless> persia: I'll tell you in summer - new team, new meetings
<persia> lifeless, fair :)
<nigelb> lol
<lifeless> persia: with folk in new hemispheres ;)
<nigelb> lifeless: I thought there were only 2...
<lifeless> nigelb: I got a new job role about 2 months back
<ejat> 9 and 13 should be ok with me ..
<nigelb> lifeless: ah, architect.
<lifeless> nigelb: All my meetings were southern hemisphere before
<Vantrax_> ill talk to CC and get some sort of idea on options and report back next meeting
<lifeless> nigelb: yes
<nigelb> I'm +1 on what persia said.
<nigelb> but then the council needs to ensure quorum.
<persia> Vantrax_, We called for that before, but got too few nominations.  Perhaps you'd like to make another call?  My memory is that the CC authorised us to have 9 members, ideally with 3 around UTC+3, 3 around UTC+8 and three around UTC+10
 * persia can probably dig up meeting transcripts if needed
<Vantrax_> good idea persia, can you send me an email so I have the info not on my phone:p
<Vantrax_> can't cut and paste well
<ejat> ill go for +10 and above ..
<persia> Err, probably.  If it doesn't work, poke me later.
 * nigelb hugs Vantrax_.
<nigelb> I've been there.
<Vantrax_> thanks, just need too have the info on my pc so I can talk to pleia tomorrow
<freeflying> persia: Vantrax_ I got a candidate for UTC+8
<Vantrax_> if we get a go from cc then we can look at that.
<persia> freeflying, Send a nomination to the list.  My memory is that our procedure is to collect the nominations and present them to the CC for selection.
<Vantrax_> yes, if we can go ahead with it
<freeflying> persia: make sense, will send it late
<lifeless> gnight - we seem well done
<ejat> nite lifeless
<Vantrax_> night all
<persia> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 05:51.
<ejat> brb ...
<sladen> as it CC now, if did I just have an off-by-one?
<dholbach> sladen, it's time, but Mark and Alan have been dragged into other meetings and I couldn't contact anyone else
<dholbach> he only agenda item I can see is yours, which is https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website/+bug/605969
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/605969)
<sladen> ubottu: fail
<dholbach> hehe
<dholbach> sladen, I could contact Canonical HR about their plans with the page and find out who was responsible for posting other jobs on it - what do you think about that?
<dholbach> I'd add the information to the bug report as soon as I get it
<sladen> dholbach: could do
<dholbach> ok, super - because right now I don't know what the plan is and what was decided at which stage
<dholbach> I'll add it to my TODO
<sladen> dholbach: let me post what I'd prepared
<sladen> Overview: 1. Content advertised as being cross-vendor, and held up as example of how to help build sustainable 2. Content moved to new URL (indifferient) 3. Redirect not added (oversight) 4. Redirect added to single vendor's version of similiar content (usurping), in contrast to earlier cross-vendor argument (sub-optimal)
<sladen> I'm generally able to reel off a supportative argument---but I haven't been able to formulate one in this case, so perhaps it's something to raise here.
<sladen> so that it makes it into the logs
 * dholbach nods
<dholbach> thanks
<dholbach> alright, I'll let you know what I find out - is there anything else anybody wants to raise here?
<sabdfl> hello all
<dholbach> hey sabdfl
<persia> Did a week get missed?  Should the A/O RMB meeting be rescheduled to again not coincide?
<sabdfl> nice to have you back, daniel
<sladen> dholbach: The logical solution might be to leave the redirect pointing at the content that it used to redirect to;  and then put a specific link at the top noting specifically Canonical jobs can be found --> over there
<dholbach> sladen raised 605969 and I was going to raise it with HR to find out what the decision was and what the plan is going to be
<dholbach> persia, no, it's always 1st and 3rd tue
<sabdfl> ubuntu.com/employment should be open to jobs unrelated to canonical, but relevant to ubuntu
<dholbach> as https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-jobs/ is
<sabdfl> and it would be healthy for the project to encourage more companies to post jobs there
<persia> dholbach, Ah, I see the confusion.  1st/3rd vs. every fortnight breaks twice a year.  Thanks for the clarification.
<sabdfl> ubuntu-related Canonical jobs should be listed there too, not just with a link, but actually listed
<sabdfl> i think this was a glitch introduced as part of the website overhaul, understandable but still a mistake that we should address
<sladen> sabdfl: (a) so point it back at http://webapps.ubuntu.com/employment/ ?   Or (b) open up  http://www.canonical.com/about-canonical/careers  to other organisations
<sladen> (b) seems illogical to me
<sabdfl> so, thanks for raising it sladen, it will get fixen
<sabdfl> www.ubuntu.com/employment should list ubuntu-related canonical jobs, and be open to job postings from other companies related to ubuntu
<sabdfl> we need a process for vetting, posting and removing those, dholbach, perhaps ask HR to handle that?
<dholbach> I'll subscribe the CC to the bug and update it once I get more info from HR (it'd be nice to have some kind of process how to get something submitted and some kind of requirements for job postings there)
 * dholbach hugs sabdfl
<sabdfl> separately, jobs not really related to Ubuntu from Canonical could get posted on canonical.com/jobs or the like
<sabdfl> dholbach: +1
<dholbach> rock on
<dholbach> any other business?
<sabdfl> we've talked for some time about having a horseman in Jono's team who thinks about corporate engagement with ubuntu, this could be part of that
<dholbach> sabdfl, that sounds interesting - do you want me to start another thread with Jono about that?
<sabdfl> sure
<dholbach> ok, great
<sladen> wider corporate engagement?
<sabdfl> helping corporate developers participate in ubuntu where they have an interest in doing so, for example
<sladen> nod
<sabdfl> encouraging companies to shape the packaging of their products, cloudera->hadoop for example
<sabdfl> helping them navigate the complex community - it really is complex for someone who shows up wanting to get something specific done
<sabdfl> helping them understand the rules and the rationales for the rules
<sabdfl> like freezes and cycles and dates and deadlines and stuff
<sabdfl> explaining baroque conventions and hysterical raisins
<sabdfl> etc
<persia> Also nice to highlight the many firms that already have a number of full-time developers focused primarily on Ubuntu more clearly.
<dholbach> haha, yes, that'd be hugely helpful
<czajkowski> heh
<dholbach> ok, do we have any other business?
<sladen> all good, over and out, thank you
<czajkowski> well I raised an issue on the role of the PoC on email to the CC recently, the LC really hasn't received an actual answer
<czajkowski> and it's something we would like to work on for the upcomming cycle
<dholbach> czajkowski, what was the subject of the mail again? I'll star it and try to reply later on then
 * czajkowski hugs dholbach 
<dholbach> ok, found it
<czajkowski> dholbach: clarification of the role of the PoC
<dholbach> if that's everything, that's super - it means I can send out mails and then get lunch :)
<dholbach> thanks a lot everybody
<czajkowski> thanks folks
<sabdfl> persia: indeed
<sabdfl> thanks all
<sabdfl> dholbach: i think that's a wrap
<dholbach> yep - have a great rest of your day everybody
<persia> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 08:02. The chair is persia.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<GrueMaster> perfect timing.
<persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20100817
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20100817
<ogra> grr, the wiki is slow
<persia> [TOPIC] Action Item Review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action Item Review
<persia> NCommander to unbreak apport retracer (c/o)
 * ogra added a wiki item
<ogra> i guess thats another c/o
<persia> Looks that way.
 * ogra doubts NCommander has made it 
<persia> [ACTION] NCommander to unbreak apport retracer (c/o)
<MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to unbreak apport retracer (c/o)
<ogra> persia, the WI tracker link is wrong on the wiki (A3 vs beta)
 * persia edits
<ogra> should we move on ?
<persia> Unless anyone else has wiki bits.
<persia> [TOPIC] status trackers
<MootBot> New Topic:  status trackers
<persia> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile.html
<persia> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile-ubuntu-10.10-beta.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile-ubuntu-10.10-beta.html
<persia> [LINK] http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/canonical-mobile-assigned-bug-tasks.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/canonical-mobile-assigned-bug-tasks.html
<ogra> beta looks really bad
<GrueMaster> My items are waiting on others.  Can't test what doesn't exist.
<ogra> i added the last link so we take a short look each week at the open and assigned bugs
<ogra> GrueMaster, cant you test a dove install for the "unsupported hw" bit ?
<ogra> and i thought you did an upgrade on a beagle
<ogra> (a buggy one)
<GrueMaster> Upgrade on beagle fails because the current kernel doesn't support mtd.  I only made it work with some hacking.
<ogra> which imho closes the "Test upgrade path" item (indeed you need to do more testing than only once, but the item just says "test")
<ogra> so close that one
<GrueMaster> Dove was moved offline and is used primarily for build testing.
<rsalveti> GrueMaster: the just uploaded kernel it seems to be supporting mtd again
<GrueMaster> ok.  I'll "try" to add it to my todo list this week.  bear in mind that the hotel network is very slow.
 * rsalveti needs coffee
<ogra> GrueMaster, the WI doesnt depend on bugs though, close it, upgrade testing is in the works
<ogra> (we'll nag you about it anyway :P )
<ogra> no need to have a workitem
<GrueMaster> Ok, one item (upgrade path) checked off.
<GrueMaster> based on beagle.
<ogra> right
<ogra> indeed we want tests until the issue is fixed, but imho the workitem is fulfilled with that
<ogra> dyfet, how about your 4 items ?
<GrueMaster> I plan on running upgrade tests at least weekly when possible.
<ogra> right
<dyfet> I am going to get together with mpointer later today on the i2c kernel issue,  yesterday I was also busy with kdebindings
<ogra> is there any chance you get that done for beta ? (including all the freeze exceptions you will need for it) ?
<ogra> you are very behind on that
<dyfet> I am going to try
<ogra> k
 * ogra sees persia is still polishing springs :)
<ogra> persia, will you get the lintian checker ready in time ?
<ogra> (and what about liquid)
<persia> last test run didn't complete successfully, but it's nearly ready to start getting published results.  Getting arbitrary developer access to the lab might or might not make beta, depending on sysadmin time to roll out somewhere accessible.
<ogra> well, you couls just store it on people
<persia> liquid has been blocked in my mind on something else, but that's taking way too long, and based on discussions with Ian, I'll try to push it sooner (although getting it right benefits from the prior block)
<persia> The lab is ~80GB.  I don7t really want to put that on people :)
<persia> results will certainly be posted there to start.
<ogra> well, the machine has 160G free :)
<ogra> anyway, lets move
<persia> other space is reserved anyway ;)
<ogra> NCommander isnt here to report about the two remaining items he has
<persia> [TOPIC] Kernet status
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernet status
<persia> lag, Feel like going first?
<lag> Sure
<lag> * Marvel (mvl-dove)
<lag>    * MISC     : Brad helped to merge the Marvell Dove LSP 5.3.2 sync'ed branch into 'mvl-dove' - smoke tested OK
<lag>  * Freescale (fsl-imx51)
<lag>    * FIXED    : B615722 missing a patch to switch low power mode only support in mc13892 2.0a
<lag>  * Texas Instruments (ti-omap)
<lag>    * ON GOING : B591941 original author sent a patch to try - it does work but introduces another problem
<lag>    * ON GOING : B608266 mtdblockXYZ are now mapped by the kernel and published in user space - mobile team to test
<lag>    * ON GOING : B608279 the EDID is readily accessible from user space with i2c-tools - mobile team test and report
<lag>    * ON GOING : B605488 more testing in progress - still no sign
<lag>    * PATCH    : B588243 received a patch from linux-omap which fixed this issue - waiting for upstream review
<lag>    * MISC     : Still waiting for TI OMAP4 (official) release - pre-release reviewed and comments provided to TI
<lag> ..
<lag> GrueMaster: Any news from Marvel?
<ogra> for bug 608279 we really only need one final test
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 608279 in linux (Ubuntu) "i2c support for edid on armel" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/608279
<GrueMaster> Uh, mike is at Marvel.
<lag> GrueMaster: Do you know who's dealing with the bug which bricked the boards?
<ogra> lag, thats not marvel
<GrueMaster> That was Freescale.
<lag> Yes, that one
<lag> Any news as yet?
<ogra> lag, and its cooloney
<lag> Thanks - I'll grab him when he's next on
<ogra> lag, should be fixed since a while, but i'm not sure its uploaded already
<lag> Do we know what the issue was?
<ogra> lag, yes, missing patches from a BSP update apparently
<lag> Okay, thanks
<lag> ..
<ogra> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kernel-team/2010-April/010256.html
<ogra> fyi
<ogra> anything else for kernel ?
<persia> mpoirier and cooloney seem absent, so we'll skip them
<ogra> looks like the NAND issues were fixed
<ogra> by mpoirier
<persia> [TOPIC] QA Status
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Status
<GrueMaster> Not much new to report.
<GrueMaster> oem-config is still broken.
<rsalveti> GrueMaster: were you able to test the panda es2 kernel?
<GrueMaster> Has been sincepost A3.
<persia> GrueMaster, How much do we care about the three bugs highlighted?
<ogra> should we probably pull the buglist into the QA topic ?
<ogra> instead of directly next to the workitem tracker stuff
<GrueMaster> rsalveti: not yet.  I started an update on ES1 yesterday.  It is still going.
<persia> I think the buglist is more status than necessarily QA.
<ogra> hmm, k
<rsalveti> GrueMaster: ok
<ogra> it somewhat drowns in the workitem stuff
<persia> Could add a different buglist related to subscriptions or tags or something though.
<GrueMaster> persia: Those bugs were targeted for A3.  That's why they were listed.
<ogra> GrueMaster, i'm talking about the other buglist from above
<ogra> http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/canonical-mobile-assigned-bug-tasks.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/canonical-mobile-assigned-bug-tasks.html
<persia> ogra, It does, but it also completely fails to highlight the bugs that are interesting, rather listing the ones assigned to some folk.
<ogra> well, it showed me a good amount of bugs i had forgotten about
<ogra> rsalveti, thanks for taking the rootstock one ;)
<rsalveti> ogra: :-)
<ogra> persia, it also shows that we all need to assign 10% of our bugs to GrueMaster, he has not a single item on that list :P
<GrueMaster> Ok, I'm confused.  I thought persia was referring to the bugs targeted for Alpha 3 on the meeting wiki.
<GrueMaster> Hey!  I create them, not fix them.
<ogra> GrueMaster, no, these shouldnt have been copied ...
<persia> GrueMaster, I was referring to those in my query to you.  I was referring to the link ogra posted in my critique of the buglist.
<persia> For the QA status, I'&d much prefer to see a list of GrueMaster's favorite bugs in need of squashing.
<ogra> btw, looking at that list, is the beagle still showing OOMs for ureadahead ?
<ogra> persia, agreed, we should have the above list under "Bug Status" or some such
<GrueMaster> Not sure, let me check.
<GrueMaster> yes, it is.
<ogra> hmm, k
<GrueMaster> With today's image.
<ogra> i dont get any on the panda
<persia> ogra, Letting it get lost in workitems works for me.  I think it represents a useless subset of the bugs that are interesting, and fails to include a significant number of interesting bugs.
<ogra> persia, its a generic team status
<ogra> specific bugs should go under QA indeed
<ogra> but the list helps seeing whats rotting around on LP
<rsalveti> ogasawara: yep, I'm working on the ureadahead issue
<rsalveti> argh
<rsalveti> ogra: ^
<ogra> heh
<rsalveti> was testing with the bootchart with different tracing memory values
<GrueMaster> Unfortunately it doesn't list unassigned bugs.
<rsalveti> but doesn't change a thing, so will just disable it for systems with less than 512 mb
<ogra> GrueMaster, feel free to provide such a list in the QA section ;)
<rsalveti> consumes 128mb for the first time, and every time you update something at /etc/init
<ogra> wow
<rsalveti> but only while generating the pack file
<ogra> thats really crackful
<rsalveti> yep
<ogra> it should fail gracefully if it detects to less ram
<ogra> though i guess Keybuk never tested on low spec systems :)
<rsalveti> ogra: yep, that's how I'm changing it now
<rsalveti> will probably send the debdiff today
<ogra> anyway, we got distracted :)
<rsalveti> yep
<rsalveti> :-)
<GrueMaster> ogra: I'm talking with marjo about creating a query for it.
<persia> Right.
 * ogra hands the stage back to persia 
<persia> [TOPIC] Porting Status
<MootBot> New Topic:  Porting Status
<persia> dyfet, Where are we today?
<dyfet> Right now I am working through python-qt/kdebindings issues
<dyfet> and this is more a qreal=float and some casting alignment issues specific to armel
<persia> [TOPIC] Image status
<MootBot> New Topic:  Image status
<persia> ogra, any updates beyond that above?
<ogra> images look really bad due to oem-config not starting
<rsalveti> is this still happening with today's image?
<ogra> yep
<ogra> just tested
<rsalveti> ouch :-)
<ogra> i'm finidng that dbus doesnt seem to run
<ogra> but no idea why yet
<ogra> thats all for images
<persia> Anyone have anything else?
<ogra> any idea how to make oem-config start again would indeed be appreciated
 * ogra has nothing 
<ian_brasil> want to give you an update on kubuntu mobile/liquid..kubuntu mobile default settings is in REVU and I filed FFe for both this and updating the plasma shell which were granted by ScottK..
<GrueMaster> I plan on filing a bug on omap4 about the SD I/O performance as soon as I can do some testing.
<rsalveti> GrueMaster: nice, it's really very slow
<rsalveti> GrueMaster: I plan to run some benchmarks later, so we can compare with beagle and etc
<GrueMaster> Cool.
<ian_brasil> sorry..thought that was the any other business part of the meeting..i will continue lurking for a while
<ogra> ian_brasil, no, you were perfectly fine
<GrueMaster> Anyone have an alpha 3 image currently running?  I want to know what the cpu count is in /proc/cpuinfo.
<ogra> GrueMaster, 0 and 1
<rsalveti> GrueMaster: board?
<GrueMaster> Ok, the new kernel fails then.
 * ogra has no image running but knows that
<GrueMaster> ES1
<GrueMaster> Only showing 1 cpu atm.
<ogra> GrueMaster, you mean it has no SMP ?
<GrueMaster> right
<ogra> check the config
<ogra> might be an oversight
<persia> ian_brasil, Thanks for the update.  I'll upload them (if someone else doesn't) my tomorrow.
<ian_brasil> we are modifying the seed as well to not depend on kdelibs (whilst it still does not build) so that we can start building images
<rsalveti> GrueMaster: 0 and 1 at my es1
<persia> Cool.
<ogra> ian_brasil, i belive dyfet works on fixing that
<Riddell> ian_brasil: you mean not depend on kdebindings?
<ogra> should be done soon
<GrueMaster> config looks good.
<ogra> GrueMaster, SMP is enabled ?
<GrueMaster> yes.
<ian_brasil> Riddell: yes
<ogra> GrueMaster, strange
<persia> Anyway, things beyond this are probably best discussed in other channels.
<persia> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 08:54.
<ogra> thanks
 * ogra forgot at what a relaxing speed you can have meetings
 * persia peers about
<cjwatson> hi
<coolbhavi> hello persia cjwatson
<iamfuzz> hello all
<czajkowski> ogra: you can chair the meeting after highvoltage for EMEA so
<soren> o/
<cody-somerville> Hello
<cjwatson> that sounds like quorum.  whose turn is it to chair?
<soren> Probably mine, but I know that I will be interrupted a couple of times over the next hour, so I wouldn't do very well.
<cjwatson> can somebody volunteer?  I can also foresee a couple of interruptions
 * geser is still busy at the university, so won't volunteer
 * persia is 50% asleep
<persia> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:11. The chair is persia.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda
<persia> [TOPIC]  ubuntu-server-dev LP team
<MootBot> New Topic:   ubuntu-server-dev LP team
<persia> [LINK] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2010-July/000090.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2010-July/000090.html
<persia> mathiaz doesn't seem to be about: do we need him, or can someone else stand in?
 * stgraber waves (sorry was caught in meetings)
<soren> persia: He was around earlier. Maybe we can wait until he turns up again.
<cjwatson> I'm not sure we necessarily need mathiaz if the DMB is managing the package set
<cjwatson> er the team
<persia> To ask differently, does anyone have unresolved questions about this request?
<soren> persia: I do not.
<cjwatson> I have none, mathiaz is a core-dev anyway so it isn't granting him any extra permissions, and the ubuntu-server package set is already in existence
<cjwatson> so I don't see a problem with having a team associated with it
<persia> [VOTE] confirm the ubuntu-server-dev LP team
<MootBot> Please vote on:  confirm the ubuntu-server-dev LP team.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<cjwatson> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<stgraber> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<soren> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from soren. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<persia> +1 : This was one of the original set identified in the archive-reorg spec, and ought get done
<MootBot> +1 received from persia. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<cody-somerville> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cody-somerville. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<persia> geser, ?
<persia> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 5
<persia> [ACTION] mathiaz to transfer ownership of ~ubuntu-server-dev to the DMB
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz to transfer ownership of ~ubuntu-server-dev to the DMB
<persia> [ACTION] cjwatson to grant ~ubuntu-server-dev upload access to the ubuntu-server packageset
<MootBot> ACTION received:  cjwatson to grant ~ubuntu-server-dev upload access to the ubuntu-server packageset
<persia> [TOPIC] MOTU Application for Bhavani Shankar
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU Application for Bhavani Shankar
<persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bhavani_Shankar/MOTUApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bhavani_Shankar/MOTUApplication
<coolbhavi> o/
<persia> coolbhavi, Could you comment on some of the things that you feel have changed since you last came before us?
<coolbhavi> persia, I have worked on hard at different type of bugs
<coolbhavi> than the last time I think
<cjwatson> [~ubuntu-server-dev/ubuntu-server: done]
<persia> cjwatson, Thank you
<coolbhavi> and of course my package mobile-broadband-provider-info
<coolbhavi> wherein I respond quickly
<coolbhavi> and work with upstream on incorporating features
<coolbhavi> of user requests
<cjwatson> ikonia: if you're around, would you care to elaborate on the comment you left on coolbhavi's application?
<cjwatson> (I haven't checked whether it's new since the last time)
<cjwatson> coolbhavi: I've found it curious that you tend to continue working on merges well after Debian import freeze; could you comment on this, and indicate when you plan to move to other things for maverick?
<coolbhavi> cjwatson, yes now m concentrating more on bug triage and ftbfs fixing
<cjwatson> how do you assess the relative risks associated with merging / not merging a given upload from Debian?
<coolbhavi> cjwatson, it varies some fixes bugs affecting ubuntu too some incorporates new features and addons affecting ubuntu users too
<coolbhavi> and I always look at the debian package and its changes before merging
<coolbhavi> to look for the same
<ikonia> cjwatson: ping
<cjwatson> ikonia: ...
<ikonia> cjwatson: you summond
<cjwatson> ikonia: with a question :)
<ikonia> I believe you wanted me to comment on the comment I made on the application ?
<ikonia> is it ok to interupt, or I can wait until an appropriate time
<cjwatson> right, I don't know how current it is, and perhaps there are more specifics you can offer
<persia> ikonia, Go ahead
<ikonia> (not been following the conversation)
<ikonia> it was simpley a request to review coolbhavi's work in detail, there have been legacy issues with some of coolbhavi's other projects (started but never completed/not completed to solid standard) and other minor incidents of using other peoples work as his own, I'd like to make sure this isn't the case in his motu work (I've not been following his application so I don't know the current input )
<ikonia> I should point out that this is legacy
<cjwatson> ok, I've also seen some issues with uncredited patches and the like, and Artur pointed out something similar; my own experience is that, from the set of things that have made it to my desk, coolbhavi seems to have improved on this
<cjwatson> but I think it's worth a reminder that it's not OK to use patches without appropriate credit
<ikonia> I've actually got an incident on another project where credit was false
<cjwatson> how was that dealt with?
<ikonia> eg: the comment in the script said "re-written by coolbhavi" but when I diff'd the original script there was no changes
<coolbhavi> cjwatson, I have improved a lot on that regard
<ikonia> it wasn't, I regret not bringing it up at the time, which is why I thought it appropriate to mention it now
<ikonia> it is legacy and I don't want to say this is still going on, but I would like it checked
<coolbhavi> ikonia, that was when I started using linux 4 years back
<ikonia> moral ethics is different to technical ability
<coolbhavi> and I didnt know what was open source stuff at that time
<ikonia> but that's just a lie
<ikonia> saying you re-wrote something when you didn't
<coolbhavi> and popey guided me
<ikonia> that's nothing to do with open source
<coolbhavi> I agree that thing
<ikonia> well, I'm raising it to be aware, as these packages will be used to represent ubuntu, hence why I'm referencing it
<coolbhavi> but I have changed a lot
<coolbhavi> n give due credits now
<ikonia> telling lies is nothign to do with being new to linux, taking credit is nothing to do with linux, if others are happy this is not an issue, then I have no issue, but I am raising it for checking
<coolbhavi> ex ncrypt sru to lucid
<coolbhavi> where I gave credits to felix dreher
<cjwatson> so, I don't quite know what to do here; comments about dishonesty worry me greatly, but at the same time I recognise that people change as they grow up and I prefer it if rejections can have a reason that can be rectified
<ikonia> cjwatson: exactly, this is legacy, I'm not saying it's current, I just want it to be checked as these packages represent ubuntu
<cjwatson> I agree entirely that this has nothing to do with being new to Linux; though I'm not sure I'd want to meet my 19-year-old self
<coolbhavi> for providing a patch
<coolbhavi> and as I have said
<cjwatson> one of the problems with the internet, your mistakes hang around forever
<ikonia> cjwatson: no-one is perfect at all, which is why if no-one else has an issue that this is a problem, then I am more than happy, but I would not be happy with myself if I didn't raise it and let it slide, as I did with issues at the time
<cjwatson> as I said I've certainly noticed an upward trend in Bhavani's accreditations
<persia> I think it's good that the issue be raised, but that we ought proceed based on the work (considering that we may want to check the origins of the work).  Much of MOTU work involves pulling patches from others, especially in merge&sync, which represents the vast majority of coolbhavi's work, so it ought be clear.
<tazz> Hello sorry for intruding, i am an op from #ubuntu-in , coolbhavi could you please explain what seems to be russian translations ? https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/mutt/+pots/mutt/bg/+filter?person=bhavi
<coolbhavi> I have come a long way in rectifying myself
<cjwatson> ikonia: agreed, and thank you for raising it; I followed up because I felt it should be looked into
<tazz> i am in a state similar to ikonia
<coolbhavi> tazz thats upstream translation import
<cjwatson> tazz: I haven't checked the details, but note that translations can sometimes end up getting credited to uploaders
<ikonia> persia: cjwatson that's exactly it, I'm not bringing this up to pull coolbhavi over the coals on this, I just want to be confident about the current content contributions
<cjwatson> I myself occasionally get mail from people who think I'm a Bulgarian translator
<cjwatson> it's an artifact of how Launchpad glues everything together
<tazz> oh ok... we have had no current issues with coolbhavi in that case :)
<coolbhavi> and I have been true to myself now in the MOTU contributions
<cjwatson> ok, I have no further questions
<persia> I've a couple translations in languages I don't know forwarded (as unreviewed) from submitted bug reports, and there's no clear way to indicate credit when performing such data copies.
<coolbhavi> as I said i have improved a lot in contributing as a member of the team
<persia> coolbhavi, Your two most recent endorsements both seem to suggest that in some cases you miss some details.  How will you ensure that this doesn't continue once your work is no longer reviewed by peers prior to upload?
<persia> (you've improved massively, but these are from <17 days ago)
<coolbhavi> persia, I ll cut down from my contributions and
<coolbhavi> concentrate hard on nullifying those
<coolbhavi> another example of the same is MOTU science and electronics related packages
<cjwatson> Daniel's comment does suggest to me that just slowing down a bit would help
<coolbhavi> cjwatson, yes I have slowed down now
<persia> Anyone else have questions?
<stgraber> nope
<soren> nope
<persia> [VOTE] Confirm Bhavani Shankar as MOTU
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Confirm Bhavani Shankar as MOTU.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<ikonia> actually I have a question
<ikonia> apologies
<ikonia> never mind
<coolbhavi> and you can look at my emu8051 package in debian where I gave credits to pierre ferrari
<coolbhavi> for work in ubuntu
<coolbhavi> wrt the package
<ikonia> may I ask before the vote ?
<persia> ikonia, Sure, as we seem to be slow
<ikonia> cool,
<ikonia> coolbhavi: you've been involved in a lot of things in ubuntu looking at your wiki page, a lot of the projects you've worked on have either had nothing really happen, or you've moved on to the next thing,
<ikonia> what makes being an MOTU different than all the other contributions you've picked up / put down
<coolbhavi> ikonia, as a MOTU I ll definitely try to cut down on my mistakes created earlier and work hard enough to contribute to the team
<coolbhavi> to the best of my spirits
<ikonia> that's not what I asked
<ikonia> I asked what's different about the MOTU process that suggests you'll not pick it up/ put it down when the next hot contribution topic comes along
<ikonia> (to be more clear)
<cody-somerville> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from cody-somerville. 0 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 0
<coolbhavi> MOTU status means that you have that added responsibility on you and ll work hard in improving my contributions
<coolbhavi> of course I have made a mistake
<ikonia> other projects you worked on had responsability
<coolbhavi> but I am more dedicated now
<ikonia> what is different about MOTU that suggests you will stick with it, rather than put it down as other projects to move onto the next buzz project/contribution
<cjwatson> I suggest that these may be unanswerables right now; perhaps (assuming we say yes) we should revisit in six months to see how it's going?
<coolbhavi> MOTU is a huge responsibiliity as I said n I ll make my
<coolbhavi> contributions to the best of my effort
<ikonia> I'll leave it there as your answering a different question as to the one I'm asking
<coolbhavi> from my side and not go away
<ikonia> thank you
<persia> OK.  Let7s have the rest of the votes.
<soren> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from soren. 1 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1
<bilalakhtar> can a non-sponsor comment?
<bilalakhtar> comment, not vote
<cjwatson> +1 but I'd like to revisit in a few months to see how it's going, as above
<MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2
<persia> +0 : The recent work is vastly better, but I'm concerned that there are still rough edges that could be smoothed (and not convinced that other mechanisms of peer review will be used when there is uncertainty)
<MootBot> Abstention received from persia. 2 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 2
<cjwatson> bilalakhtar: yes, but you're getting a bit late :)
<stgraber> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from stgraber. 2 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 2
<persia> geser, ?
<bilalakhtar> I would like to say, coolbhavi has been tireless in fixing FTBFSs and merging/syncing. He has also reviewed my merges/syncs really well!
<persia> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 2 for, 0 against. 3 abstained. Total: 2
<coolbhavi> as bilalakhtar says and most of my sponsors say I have worked on improving a lot
<bilalakhtar> I'm sorry coolbhavi I came a bit late
<coolbhavi> and its sad that I couldnt make it through after years of dedicated effort
<cjwatson> (remind me what 2 for 3 abstained translates to?)
<persia> That's a bit tricky.  I believe we're six, which means it either translates to "Deferred" or "Pending another vote", depending on whether 3 is sufficient with 6 of us.
<coolbhavi> n my contributions have not been validated anyways I ll reapply next time
<cjwatson> Richard is still technically on the DMB
<persia> then it's "Pending more votes", and goes to email.
<persia> [ACTION] persia to call for remaining votes for coolbhavi's application
<MootBot> ACTION received:  persia to call for remaining votes for coolbhavi's application
<coolbhavi> as I said i slowed down drastically
 * persia needs to stop meeting, and seeks another volunteer to be chair, to continue the meeting
<coolbhavi> sorry persia
<cjwatson> I guess I can
<persia> (I'll still do minutes, etc, but just can't focus on the screen well right now)
<persia> cjwatson, Thanks.
<bilalakhtar> coolbhavi: have you slowed down because of M-o-M being down?
<persia> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:10.
<cjwatson> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:10. The chair is cjwatson.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<coolbhavi> bilalakhtar, I am concentrating on more diverse stuff
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] MOTU Application for Brian Thomason
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU Application for Brian Thomason
<cjwatson> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BrianThomason/MOTUApplication
 * iamfuzz waves
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BrianThomason/MOTUApplication
<ikonia> thanks for the oppertunity to comment
<coolbhavi> ikonia, thanks for your comments
 * stgraber has to go, I've already (hardly) been following the last 30 mins on my cell but I really have to go now. sorry
<stgraber> the n900 is great but slightly too small for long meetings :)
<MiketheMagiCat> Help, I am an idiot, I installed Ubuntu after uninstalling the Ubuntu program I had.  It had a broken link and I could not get online.  It would not concect me.  But a screenn popped up and said I had to choose a program to open it up, and I chose Internet Explorer.  Now I can't find the file.
<MiketheMagiCat> Could somone tell me what I did wrong?
<cjwatson> MiketheMagiCat: we're in a meeting here - could you please take this to #ubuntu
<MiketheMagiCat> I am a beginnOh I am sorry
<cjwatson> iamfuzz: I don't know how much this is relevant or commentable-on, but can you comment on how you feel you would do partner packages differently given your experience in MOTU?
<cjwatson> er, in working on applying for MOTU
<cjwatson> I vaguely remember in the past there were some things that we didn't fix because of commercial constraints
<iamfuzz> cjwatson, for most, there's not much I can do different
<iamfuzz> exactly, we get what we get sometimes
<iamfuzz> however, going down this path has taught me a few new tricks
<iamfuzz> and made me press the vendors even more to better package their wares
<iamfuzz> one example I can think of is trying to get Alfresco to split up their 170+ JARs into separate packages
<iamfuzz> that hasn't gone too well though :-)
<cjwatson> I wonder if some Ubuntu developers would benefit from the same kind of presentation of packaging technology that you need to make to vendors
<iamfuzz> Partner packaging can be quite tricky, and is (usually) an altogether different beast
<cjwatson> I've noticed there are a few different mindsets involved
<iamfuzz> In some cases in multiverse it might be helpful
<iamfuzz> some similar overlap with the junk (I mean packages :-) ) there
<cjwatson> I'm particularly pleased to see work on universe security, but have no further questions
<cjwatson> anyone else?
<iamfuzz> I've actually enjoyed that.  I dabbled ina  little bit of everything just to get a good overview of everything, but I think that is where I will focus as a MOTU, if confirmed
<iamfuzz> that and maintain a couple of packages I have interest in seeing in Ubuntu
 * cody-somerville has to go now too.
 * geser is finally at home but has to leave in a few minutes again
<cjwatson> can we complete this vote first?
<cjwatson> let's move to a vote now
<cjwatson> [VOTE] Confirm Brian Thomason as MOTU
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Confirm Brian Thomason as MOTU.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<cjwatson> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<cody-somerville> hmm....
<cody-somerville> lots of great endorsements but they're all from Canonical employees and a number of them are from archive admins
<iamfuzz> indeed, it's mostly who i worked with
<cjwatson> I can understand the former as an objection but am not sure why the latter is bad
<cody-somerville> cjwatson, because the interaction appears to be from his work on partner
<iamfuzz> Jamie was my mentor originally, then Dustin took over
<cody-somerville> *in
<jdstrand> fwiw, I commented primarily on his work with universe security
<iamfuzz> not entirely, no, but I'm certainly not arguing that's where the vast majority of my uploads have gone
<jdstrand> i reviewed far more security updates for iamfuzz than partner packages
<cody-somerville> iamfuzz, Do you interact with the MOTU community? How often? Do you have any good examples of your collaboration with the MOTU community?
<iamfuzz> cody-somerville, yes, but again, most of this is to do with Partner bugs
<geser> does the uploading to partner differ much compared to the main/universe? regarding processes, freezes, etc.
<cody-somerville> geser, very much so
<iamfuzz> geser, yes, Partner is never frozen
<iamfuzz> there is no updates pocket, etc..
<iamfuzz> it's like a multiverse that never closes
<cody-somerville> iamfuzz, so why do you want MOTU? is there a particular set of packages you're interested in?
<cody-somerville> (outside of partner)
<iamfuzz> cody-somerville, there's one in particular I wish to maintain, reconstructor-engine
<cjwatson> also partner starts out empty for a new release
<iamfuzz> we wish to move alfresco-community into universe as well
<iamfuzz> which i would maintain as well
<iamfuzz> I also rather enjoy monitoring and merging security patches from Debian in unvierse
<bilalakhtar> iamfuzz is making bilalakhtar happy
<geser> how familiar are you with the main/universe processes like merging, syncing or freezes and freeze exceptions?
<iamfuzz> openbravo as well should eventually be moved to universe and I will maintain that as well
<iamfuzz> geser, pretty familiar, I perform an SRU update to app-install-data=partner regularly
<iamfuzz> I have requested a couple of syncs and done quite a few normal merges
<iamfuzz> I have yet to request a freeze exception as nothing I have had has warranted it
<cjwatson> can those who have not voted please make a decision?  this meeting is moving excruciatingly slowly
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<cody-somerville> -1 - PPU seems more reasonable at this time; apparent lack of involvement in MOTU community. No doubt about abilities but concerned about giving the appearance of streamlining Canonical employees.
<MootBot> -1 received from cody-somerville. 2 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<soren> -1 I also don't feel there's enough integration with the MOTU team as a whole.
<MootBot> -1 received from soren. 2 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 0
<cjwatson> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 2 for, 2 against. 0 abstained. Total: 0
<cjwatson> can't pass.  Sorry, iamfuzz - hopefully this gives some direction on what you need to do next?
 * bilalakhtar feels sorry for iamfuzz 
<iamfuzz> cjwatson, I guess so, I honestly feel I've done more than enough to show myself capable of handling MOTU, but it is what it is
<cody-somerville> I think you're capable of handling MOTU as well.
<cody-somerville> But there is a social/communal component of the MOTU applicant that you didn't satisfy
<iamfuzz> perhaps so, though most of my work comes from the quasi-commercial side where I interact daily
<iamfuzz> but you guys are the arbiters, I'm not here to argue
<iamfuzz> I appreciate your time
<cody-somerville> iamfuzz, I sincerely hope that you rectify the points mentioned above and come back so that we can grant you MOTU because we all really want to.
<cjwatson> Artur Rona is next on the agenda, but is not here; he said he'd be here at 1700 UTC, but that's after when we really ought to have finished
<iamfuzz> cody-somerville, I certainly will
<cjwatson> perhaps we will need to schedule a special meeting for him
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Contributing Developer application for Angel Abad
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Contributing Developer application for Angel Abad
<cjwatson> angelabad: hi
 * geser has to leave, sorry
<angelabad> Hi cjwatson !
<cjwatson> oh, damn, we just lost quorum
<cjwatson> perhaps we can continue discussion and finish by mail though
<cody-somerville> I have to go as well.
<angelabad> ops...
 * soren too
<cjwatson> argh, can't really continue on my own!  persia seems to have gone to sleep
<cjwatson> [ACTION] cjwatson to initiate discussion of different meeting times
<MootBot> ACTION received:  cjwatson to initiate discussion of different meeting times
 * soren welcomes such a discussion
<cjwatson> angelabad: I'm sorry, we're going to have to come back to this at a later time.  If that's a pain for you, please e-mail developer-membership-board@lists.ubuntu.com and we'll work something out
<cjwatson> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:43.
<cjwatson> persia: all yours for minutes
<bilalakhtar> another meeting gone down because of no quorum...
<cjwatson> I think we've just generally found that this time sucks for too many people, which is why I took an action to discuss some different times, in frustration
<angelabad> cjohnston, but, do you know when? or in the next meeting?
<angelabad> cjwatson,  but, do you know when? or in the next meeting? sorry
<cjwatson> angelabad: by default, the next meeting in a fortnight, and like I say if that sucks for you then e-mail us and we may be able to arrange something different
<cjwatson> e.g. a special meeting, or something by e-mal
<cjwatson> *e-mail
<angelabad> cjwatson, ok, thanks I will e-mail you later.
<ari-tczew> is meeting open?
<smb> clock here says in around 7 minutes
<cjwatson> ari-tczew: DMB meeting - started two hours ago and thus just finished.  I did wonder about the time you gave in the wiki, but you weren't there when I noticed
<cjwatson> ari-tczew: would you like us to schedule a special meeting for you?  we have somebody else who may need one as well
<cjwatson> ari-tczew: if so, please e-mail convenient times to developer-membership-board@lists.ubuntu.com and we can try to sort something out
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: when is next meeting?
<cjwatson> two weeks
<ari-tczew> oficial
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: so I'm going to apply next meeting, maybe then I'll got a time
<SpamapS> o/
<cjwatson> ari-tczew: I have an action to revisit the times; if we change them, we'll mail you
<cjwatson> ari-tczew: it appears that 1500 UTC is not very good for many people on the board
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: do you suggest earlier or later hour?
 * ogasawara gets ready to kick off the kernel team meeting
<lag> o/
<smb> \o
 * apw looks interested
<ogasawara> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:01. The chair is ogasawara.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<jjohansen> \o
<ogasawara> #
<ogasawara> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<ogasawara> #
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] ARM Status (lag)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Status (lag)
<lag> * Marvel (mvl-dove)
<lag>    * MISC     : Brad helped to merge the Marvell Dove LSP 5.3.2 sync'ed branch into 'mvl-dove' - smoke tested OK
<lag>  * Freescale (fsl-imx51)
<lag>    * FIXED    : B615722 missing a patch to switch low power mode only support in mc13892 2.0a
<lag>  * Texas Instruments (ti-omap)
<lag>    * ON GOING : B591941 original author sent a patch to try - it does work but introduces another problem
<lag>    * ON GOING : B608266 mtdblockXYZ are now mapped by the kernel and published in user space - mobile team to test
<lag>    * ON GOING : B608279 the EDID is readily accessible from user space with i2c-tools - mobile team test and report
<lag>    * ON GOING : B605488 more testing in progress - still no sign
<lag>    * PATCH    : B588243 received a patch from linux-omap which fixed this issue - waiting for upstream review
<lag>    * MISC     : Still waiting for TI OMAP4 (official) release - pre-release reviewed and comments provided to TI
<lag> ..
<cjwatson> ari-tczew: I'm not sure, it will depend on what works better for people.  we have a large timezone spread (US, EU, JP).  Anyway, we're now intruding on the kernel meeting apparently
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] Release Metrics: (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Release Metrics: (JFo)
<ogasawara> ==== Beta Milestoned Bugs (32 across all packages (down 3)) ====
<ogasawara>  * 4 linux kernel bugs (up 2)
<ogasawara>  * 0 linux-fsl-imx51 bugs (no change)
<ogasawara>  * 0 linux-ec2 bugs (no change)
<ogasawara>  * 0 linux-mvl-dove bugs (no change)
<ogasawara>  * 0 linux-ti-omap bugs (no change)
<ogasawara>  * 0 linux-meta-ti-omap bug (down 1)
<ogasawara> ==== Release Targeted Bugs (124 across all packages (up 3)) ====
<ogasawara>  * 23 linux kernel bugs (down 2)
<ogasawara>  * 0 linux-fsl-imx51 bugs (down 2)
<ogasawara>  * 0 linux-ec2 bugs (no change)
<ogasawara>  * 2 linux-mvl-dove bugs (no change)
<ogasawara>  * 2 linux-ti-omap bugs (no change)
<ogasawara>  * 0 linux-meta-ti-omap bug (no change)
<ogasawara> === Milestoned Features ====
<ogasawara>  * 14 blueprints
<ogasawara> *** NOTE: This listing includes HWE Blueprints***
<ogasawara> ==== Bugs with Patches Attached:122 (down 4) ====
<ogasawara>  * https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.has_patch=on
<ogasawara>  * Breakdown by status:
<ogasawara>    http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/csv-stats/bugs-with-patches/linux/
<ogasawara> ..
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-apparmor (jjohansen)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-apparmor (jjohansen)
<jjohansen> Very little change, a few post merge fixups, and a few minor patches to user side tools
<jjohansen> ..
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-new-kernel-on-lts (tgardner)
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-new-kernel-on-lts
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-new-kernel-on-lts (tgardner)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-new-kernel-on-lts
<tgardner> The Maverick LTS backport to Lucid is tracking the Maverick kernel in the kernel-ppa at http://ppa.launchpad.net/kernel-ppa/ppa/ubuntu
<tgardner> ..
<ogasawara> tgardner: do we need to keep this bp on the list each week
<ogasawara> tgardner: seems like it's on cruise control now
<tgardner> not as far as I'm concerned
<tgardner> agree about cruise control
<ogasawara> [ACTION] bjf to drop kernel-maverick-new-kernel-on-lts from agenda
<MootBot> ACTION received:  bjf to drop kernel-maverick-new-kernel-on-lts from agenda
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-pv-ops-ec2-kernel (jjohansen)
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-pv-ops-ec2-kernel
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-pv-ops-ec2-kernel (jjohansen)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-pv-ops-ec2-kernel
<jjohansen> pv-on-hvm has been postponed to M+1, there was not going to be an AMI to support the CC in Maverick so it made no sense to push it in.  Instead we are going to roll a kernel PPA including pv-on-hvm for testing purposes.
<jjohansen> Bug 574910 - high load averages.  Appears to be mostly phantom load + possible a few other bugs piling on.  Reverting commit 0d843425672f4d2dc99b9004409aae503ef4d39f seems to clean it up.  Though we haven't seen user report success back with the test kernel.
<jjohansen> Bug 606373 - not bug 554172 or bug 431103 related.  Need to poke at it more.
<jjohansen> Bug 613273 - has not been replicated or happened again
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 574910 in linux-ec2 (Ubuntu) "High load averages on Lucid while idling" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/574910
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 606373 in cloud-init (Ubuntu) "cloud-init output does not get to console when booted with pv-grub and ramdisk" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/606373
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 554172 in linux (Ubuntu) "system services using "console output" not starting at boot" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/554172
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 431103 in linux-ec2 (Ubuntu Karmic) "ssh host key fingerprint no longer available in the console log" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/431103
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 613273 in linux (Ubuntu) "kernel panic on ec2 in system_call_fastpath" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/613273
<jjohansen> ..
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-bug-handling (JFo)
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-bug-handling
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-bug-handling (JFo)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-bug-handling
<ogasawara> Nothing new this week.
<ogasawara> ..
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-upstart (apw)
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-upstart
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-upstart (apw)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-upstart
<apw> Nothing to report, not sure there is anything realy left to report on either.
<apw> ..
<ogasawara> apw: drop from the agenda?
<apw> works for me
<ogasawara> [ACTION] bjf drop kernel-maverick-upstart from the agenda
<MootBot> ACTION received:  bjf drop kernel-maverick-upstart from the agenda
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-bios-test-automation (cking)
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-bios-test-automation
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-bios-test-automation (cking)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-bios-test-automation
<ogasawara> cking's on vacation
<ogasawara> ..
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] Status: Maverick (ogasawara)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Maverick (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> Our Maverick kernel is now rebased on v2.6.35.2 and uploaded as linux-2.6.35-16.22.  Please test.
<ogasawara> Maverick Beta is Thurs Sept 2nd, ie ~2weeks away.  Also, keep in mind that Kernel Freeze is Thurs Sept 16th, ie ~4weeks away.  Remember after Kernel Freeze, we transition to our SRU policy in order to apply patches.
<ogasawara> We are above our Beta burn down chart's trend line and dangerously close to being above the trend line overall for the first time.  I realize most of the remaining tasks are not release critical but don't wait till the last minute to close them out.
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-kernel-team-ubuntu-10.10-beta.html
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick#Milestone ubuntu-10.10-beta
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-kernel-team-ubuntu-10.10-beta.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick#Milestone ubuntu-10.10-beta
<ogasawara> ..
<pgraner> ogasawara, +1 on that
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Karmic/Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (smb)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Karmic/Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (smb)
<smb> ||                   || Upd./Sec.     || Proposed      || TiP || Verified    ||
<smb> || Dapper: Kernel    || 2.6.15-55.86  ||               ||     ||             ||
<smb> || Hardy:  Kernel    || 2.6.24-28.73  ||               ||     ||             ||
<smb> || Jaunty: Kernel    || 2.6.28-19.62  ||               ||     ||             ||
<smb> || Karmic: Kernel    || 2.6.31-22.61  ||               ||     ||             ||
<smb> || =       mvl-dove  || 2.6.31-214.29 ||               ||     ||             ||
<smb> || =       fsl-imx51 || 2.6.31-112.28 ||               ||     ||             ||
<smb> || =       ec2       || 2.6.31-307.16 ||               ||     ||             ||
<smb> || Lucid:  Kernel    || 2.6.32-24.39  || 2.6.32-24.40  ||   0 ||  0/ 3       ||
<smb> || =       mvl-dove  || 2.6.32-207.21 ||               ||     ||             ||
<smb> || =       fsl-imx51 || 2.6.31-608.15 ||               ||     ||             ||
<smb> || =       ti-omap   || 2.6.33-502.9  ||               ||     ||             ||
<smb> || =       ec2       || 2.6.32-308.14 ||               ||     ||             ||
<smb> Proposed kernels for Hardy, Jaunty, Karmic and Lucid-fsl-imx51 waiting to be
<smb> accepted into proposed.
 * smb wonders whether a friendly nudge on cjwatson would help. :)
<smb> ..
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<ogasawara> 252 Maverick Bugs (up 19)
<ogasawara> 886 Lucid Bugs (down 246)
<ogasawara> Current regression stats (broken down by release):
<ogasawara> ==== regression-potential ====
<ogasawara>   * 126 maverick bugs (up 8)
<ogasawara>   * 157 lucid bugs (down 69: to be converted to regression-release)
<ogasawara> ==== regression-update ====
<ogasawara>   * 35 lucid bugs (down 7)
<ogasawara>   * 6 karmic bugs (no change)
<ogasawara>   * 4 jaunty bugs (no change)
<ogasawara>   * 1 hardy bug (no change)
<ogasawara> ==== regression-release ====
<ogasawara>   * 155 lucid bugs (down 26)
<ogasawara>   * 39 karmic bugs (down 5)
<ogasawara>   * 18 jaunty bugs (down 1)
<ogasawara>   * 2 hardy bugs (no change)
<ogasawara> ==== regression-proposed ====
<ogasawara>   * 3 lucid bugs (no change)
<ogasawara>   * 1 karmic bug (no change)
<ogasawara> ..
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<ogasawara> The next bug day will be next Tuesday. We will be focusing on bugs with patches attached with an effort toward preparing them for review by the team to see if they have been addressed in kernel updates or if they need to be sent to the list for consideration. We will continue to have the Team Bug Day to address the Top 50 list as half days on Friday and Monday, as these seem to be working out very well. Reviewers, please
<ogasawara>  take a look at your needs-review lists and help us keep the process moving.
<ogasawara> ..
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] Triage Status (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Triage Status (JFo)
<ogasawara> I spent a bit of time this past week running the expire script. We expired about 1600 bugs from the incomplete list and I hope to run the script early next week to see if there are any more that can be expired.
<_KAMI_Hungary> Hi when the Hugarian meeting will start?
<ogasawara> I've not had the chance to work further with chazn85 the past 2 weeks, but I hope to link back up next week.
<ogasawara> ..
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
<ogasawara> _KAMI_Hungary: no idea, maybe check the fridge
<apw> _KAMI_Hungary, the next meeting is a loco meeting, in 2:45
<ogasawara> k, I think we're done here for the kernel meeting.
<ogasawara> thanks everyone
<ogasawara> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:16.
<jjohansen> thanks ogasawara
<kamal> thanks ogasawara
<apw> whistle stop indeed
<smb> ogasawara, thanks
<cjwatson> smb: have been (a) on holiday (b) holding off on update processing until 10.04.1 is done
<smb> cjwatson, (b) if for lucid. (a) ok, thought you had been back
<cjwatson> just since Monday
<smb> cjwatson, ok, so I should stop whining
<kirkland> o/
<smoser> o\
<hallyn> o/
<sommer> hey all ;-)
<SpamapS> oo//
<hggdh> ~Ã´~
<jjohansen> \o
<jiboumans> o.O
<hallyn> hggdh is striking a pose?
<hggdh> no, swimming with a cap
<SpamapS> Anybody mising?
<SpamapS> or missing
<mathiaz> o/
<SpamapS> o_
 * SpamapS stares at the dock clock...
<SpamapS> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 13:00. The chair is SpamapS.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<SpamapS> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<SpamapS> everyone to pick 1 or 2 papercuts for the beta cycle
<zul> hello
<SpamapS> Anybody know that they failed to do that?
<SpamapS> Oh and Hi
<SpamapS> welcome to the server team meeting
<SpamapS> The agenda is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<SpamapS> Apologies for jumping the gun.
<jiboumans> SpamapS: there's still 2 up for grabs, i have an agenda item for it later
<SpamapS> Alright, will defer that to jib later
<SpamapS> * zul to continue clean up the SRU assigne list by prodding people on status
<zul> done
<SpamapS> excellent. I looked at it a few minutes ago, and the situation actually looks tenable now, though it seems we need to plow through some of the unassigned SRU's now.. ;)
<SpamapS> * SpamapS to finalize and send ruby gems proposal to ubuntu-devel
<SpamapS> I asked for some advice from a few DD's before sending it, and have decided on submitting it as an "Important" bug against rubygems in Debian, and CC'ing ubuntu-devel.
<SpamapS> [ACTION} SpamapS to submit rubygems change proposal as Important bug in Debian and CC ubuntu-devel
<MootBot> ACTION received: [ACTION} SpamapS to submit rubygems change proposal as Important bug in Debian and CC ubuntu-devel
<SpamapS> * ttx to send email about 10.04.1 release process to server team
<SpamapS> ttx isn't present, but I think I recall the email was sent, yes?
<jiboumans> done
<jiboumans> i updated the agenda to reflect that
<SpamapS> Ahh, refreshing right before the meeting is a good idea. :)
<SpamapS> Ok, moving on..
<SpamapS> [TOPIC] Maverick development (jib)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Maverick development (jib)
<jiboumans> o/
 * SpamapS tosses the ball to jiboumans 
<jiboumans> So, this far into the cycle we should be around 40% completion
<jiboumans> in most cases however, we're not and there's several high prio specs even at 0%
<jiboumans> I listed them here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<SpamapS> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-server-ubuntu-10.10-beta.html
<jiboumans> and there's 3 I wanted to specifically talk about
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-server-ubuntu-10.10-beta.html
<jiboumans> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-maverick-uec-testing
<jiboumans> hggdh, kirkland: do you have an update on this?
<jiboumans> are there other things preventing us from knocking items off the list?
<hggdh> jiboumans: Dustin just set a new revision -- 1231 to build that WIll Correct All Errors
<hggdh> r1230 did not really get it done
<kirkland> jiboumans: i just updated that spec, assigning a bunch of work items to me
<hggdh> as soon as it lands I will start on it
<kirkland> jiboumans: those will probably need reassigning, or dropping though
<SpamapS> 1231 WCAE FTW
<jiboumans> hggdh: that's great, but that's just 1 item on the list
<hggdh> oh
<kirkland> jiboumans: i'm testing the r1231 here now (shortly)
<kirkland> jiboumans: on local hardware of smoser's
<kirkland> one thing of note ...
<jiboumans> kirkland: are any of the items on that list 'nice to have', or do we need to knock them all off?
<kirkland> r1231, while only 1 top level revision, involves ~20 sub-revisions all merged together
<kirkland> jiboumans: have not looked closely enough to say
<jiboumans> kirkland: ok, let's take that offline; with beta freeze around the corner and no testing items completed yet, i'm a tad worried though
<jiboumans> moving on: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-maverick-upstart-conversion
<jiboumans> zul, the status says it's blocked on reviews. can you give us an update on that?
<zul> jiboumans: i havent talked to anyone since last week...ill try to nudge it forward this week
<jiboumans> zul: so we're still blocked on reviews then? if so, let's chekc in later this week and see if we need to escalate
<zul> jiboumans: yes...sure
<SpamapS> action?
<jiboumans> action to have it dislodged by next meeting
<jiboumans> (for zul)
<jiboumans> hggdh: the other spec on your plate is https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-maverick-qa-workflow
<jiboumans> you mentioend before that depending on the uec testing load, that might not make it
<jiboumans> hggdh: any updated thoughts on that?
<hggdh> jiboumans: really did not have time to look at it
<SpamapS> [ACTION] zul to nudge forward upstart script review process
<MootBot> ACTION received:  zul to nudge forward upstart script review process
<hggdh> many code drops on Euca, continuously
<jiboumans> hggdh: does that mean it should be dropped from maverick?
<hggdh> jiboumans: I think so
<jiboumans> hggdh: go ahead and mark the work items 'postponed' thne please
<jiboumans> a request to everyone else; your completion rate should be near 40% now. if you're not and you have any concerns about being able to complete your specs, please bring it up over mail or during our 1:1 this week
<hggdh> jiboumans: doing it now
<jiboumans> this week is about the last time we can reasonable adjust expectations, so get in touch
<jiboumans> spamaps: that's it for me on this topic
<SpamapS> Alright, moving on
<SpamapS> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<kirkland> hggdh: do you think you'll get some test time on r1231 today/tomorrow?
<jiboumans> hggdh: i'm quite curious to hear about the UEC testing progress
<hggdh> kirkland: as soon as it is built I will start on the beast
<kirkland> hggdh: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/eucalyptus/2.0~bzr1231-0ubuntu1/+build/1923013
<kirkland> hggdh: currently says it'll build in 49 minutes
 * mathiaz cheers at hggdh for helping out in 10.04.1 UEC testing
 * kirkland hugs mathiaz for his 10.04.1 work!
 * SpamapS high fives everybody for 10.04.1
<hggdh> jiboumans: I do hope this will be the one
<SpamapS> Anything else for QA?
<jiboumans> hggdh: of course. have we closed any open issues with the previous releases?
<hggdh> jiboumans: very few. The critical issues are still open (or reopened)
<jiboumans> hggdh: so it's fair to say we're roughly at the same stage as last week?
<hggdh> jiboumans: yes, it is a fair statement
<jiboumans> hggdh: ok, excellent thanks for the update
<jiboumans> notihng more from me
 * SpamapS signals to hggdh that jjohansen is open for a pass
<SpamapS> anyone else?
<hggdh> a heads up from QA
<hggdh> we are starting to look into bugs that are tagged regression-*
<hggdh> and I will start to nudge those related to the server team
<hggdh> (that is, of course, having time ;-)
<SpamapS> hggdh: I've got cycles specifically for bug fixing during this cycle.. so feel free to hunt me down before I get too wrapped up in random bugs.
<hggdh> SpamapS: my hero!
 * SpamapS blushes
<hggdh> and I am done for now
<SpamapS> Alright, much love for yo hggdh, moving on...
<SpamapS> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)
<jjohansen> so still lots of bugs
<SpamapS> jjohansen: there's this bug, in ec2, btw, where the load is high while idling. Had you heard?
<jjohansen> Bug 574910 - is mostly phantom load
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 574910 in linux-ec2 (Ubuntu) "High load averages on Lucid while idling" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/574910
<jjohansen> I am going to go with the test kernel we have up currently, and SRU it.  We will close the bug, and have people still experiencing issues open new bugs
<jjohansen> basically there is a lot of piling on happening in that bug
<jjohansen> And there are different issues.
<Omahn> Would it be possible for someone from the kernel team to review this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/iotop/+bug/493156
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 493156 in iotop (Ubuntu) "Please enable CONFIG_TASK_DELAY_ACCT" [Undecided,New]
<jjohansen> Omahn: I'll stick it on my todo list
<Omahn> jjohansen: Thanks, having that option enabled in LTS would be very useful to us.
<jiboumans> jjohansen: so is it fair to summarize that the load display is wrong, and there's not an actual high load?
<jjohansen> no promises that it will make it through SRU though
<SpamapS> [ACTION] jjohansen to review bug 493156
<MootBot> ACTION received:  jjohansen to review bug 493156
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 493156 in iotop (Ubuntu) "Please enable CONFIG_TASK_DELAY_ACCT" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/493156
<jjohansen> jiboumans: generally yes.  I have done a lot of testing and this has been the case
<smoser> hooray!
<jjohansen> this does not mean there are not other issues
<jiboumans> jjohansen: that's not a bad outcome actually
<jiboumans> of course
<jjohansen> but we can get new clean bugs to deal with them
<ulysses> o/
<Dyth> o/
<jjohansen> questions?
<SpamapS> jjohansen: * pv-ops kernel status update
<jjohansen> still buggy.
<zul> hehe
<jjohansen> Bug 606373 - didn't turn out to be related to either of the guessed bugs
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 606373 in cloud-init (Ubuntu) "cloud-init output does not get to console when booted with pv-grub and ramdisk" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/606373
<smoser> jjohansen you were going to discuss today with pgraner and others a cut-off date (of sorts) for falling back to -ec2
<smoser> (a solution that nobody wants)
<jjohansen> As things work with out an initrd, it should be easy to track down, it will just take some time
<jjohansen> smoser: I will discuss, but there is no guarentee that the -EC2 kernel won't be worse.  In fact last time I had it up it was
<smoser> right. but we need to have some plan in place. and you're skillful black magic has made -ec2 function in the past, so I have somewhat more confidence in it.
<jjohansen> The majority of our current bugs look fix able.  The corruption bug 613083 is the worrying one
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 613083 in linux (Ubuntu) "user-data is corrupted inside metadata service" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/613083
<smoser> better the devil you know ...
<jjohansen> smoser: your assuming that a maverick -EC2 kernel is the devil you know
<smoser> agreed.
<jjohansen> its not
<smoser> oh, i know.
<SpamapS> the only devil I know is zul + 3 red bulls
<jjohansen> yikes, now that is frightening
<zul> i still dont want to get involved with this ;)
<SpamapS> Ok, anything else for jjohansen/the kernel team?
<jjohansen> I have one other thing
<jjohansen> We are going to make the pv-on-hvm drivers available in a ppa for testing purposes.
<jjohansen> ..
<SpamapS> Do you have the location of that PPA yet?
<jjohansen> SpamapS: no I haven't set it up yet.
<SpamapS> Alright, thanks jjohansen.. moving on to documentation..
<SpamapS> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team (sommer)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team (sommer)
 * SpamapS lobs the ball toward sommer
<sommer> hello, got a bunch of server guide bugs fixed this morning
<SpamapS> sommer: ^5
<sommer> so things are going pretty smooth, should have time to work on some new content this week as well
<sommer> don't really have much else
<sommer> at this time anyway
<SpamapS> Alright, anybody have questions for sommer, other than "How do you find the time to do such an amazing thing for us?!"
<mathiaz> sommer: what are the main release milestone documentation wise for maverick?
<mathiaz> sommer: *milestones*
<sommer> mathiaz: probably mainly bug fixes, but I'd like to get a puppet section in as well
<sommer> I can update the blueprint for that
<mathiaz> sommer: any relevant freezes coming up?
<mathiaz> sommer: if so - when?
<sommer> mathiaz: Sept 9 is String Freeze
<sommer> mathiaz: but I've sent an email to mdke about dropping the ubuntu-serverguide package... so hopefully there will be some discussion on the doc list
<sommer> mathiaz: if we only have HTML and PDF formats we could technically update whenever we'd like... but for translators we may want to do once a month updates or something
<SpamapS> sommer: I'd be in support of that. Most people are probably reading the server guide on the web 99% of the time.
<sommer> SpamapS: yeppers, I'll copy the server ml with any replies to that thread
<SpamapS> Great! Anything else for documentation?
<SpamapS> Ok, kim0 seems unresponsive, so I'll skip the community team update for now..
<SpamapS> [TOPIC] Papercuts status (jib)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Papercuts status (jib)
<jiboumans> So most bugs are assigned, but there's 2 left for grabs
<jiboumans> looking for volunteers for: bug 582963 & bug 601803
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 582963 in apache2 (Ubuntu) "SSL pass phrase dialog can't read input" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/582963
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 601803 in whois (Ubuntu) "when whois and mkpasswd are build locally they have .mo file conflicts" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/601803
 * mathiaz took 601803
<mathiaz> zul: is assigne to bug 582963
<jiboumans> excellent
<mathiaz> zul: seems like the best candidate?
<mathiaz> zul: are you planning on working on the papercut?
<zul> mathiaz: probably
<zul> mathiaz: the ssl one is not exactly a papercut
<SpamapS> How is it a High bug in apache2, but only medium in papercuts?
<marianom> czajkowski: hi!.I already sent our application to the loco council email address
<jiboumans> if it's not a papercut, let's remove it
<SpamapS> marianom: Hi! This is the ubuntu server team meeting at the moment. Wrong window perhaps?
<czajkowski> marianom: great thre is a meeting on here now, and the LC doesn't meet for another hour
<jiboumans> zul: action on you to figure out if that's papercut worthy
<jiboumans> if it is, please take it. if not, let's remove it from the papercuts list
<zul> jiboumans: yep
<jiboumans> the last thing is a reminder:
<jiboumans> betafreeze is next week thursday
<SpamapS> [ACTION] zul to review papercut status of bug 582963
<MootBot> ACTION received:  zul to review papercut status of bug 582963
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/582963)
<jiboumans> your papercut(s) should probably be fixed by then
<jiboumans> so please keep that in mind
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/582963)
<jiboumans> ok, that's all from me
<SpamapS> Excellent thanks. Has anyone spoken with kim0 before I move on to open discussion?
<SpamapS> I suspect he may be involved with some 10.04.1 revelry in Cairo. We'll move on then.
<SpamapS> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<jiboumans> mathiaz: could you give us the 2 line summary of 10.04.1?
<mathiaz> for server: all tests completed
<mathiaz> we're good to go as far as -server isos are concerned
<mathiaz> thanks hggdh for helping out with UEC testing
<jiboumans> anything looking like it could be blocking / remain unresolved?
<mathiaz> we're running into an issue with wubi though
<SpamapS> mathiaz: wubi for server?
<mathiaz> see #ubuntu-release to get your fix of real TV
<andreserl> In the Cluster Stack, we still waiting for MIRs. We are hold up by Pacemaker. ivoks said he would review it and fix whatÅ necessary to request MIR. However, it seems he hasn done it yet
<mathiaz> SpamapS: nope - for ubuntu desktop
<SpamapS> ah ok
<hggdh> mathiaz: my pleasure
<mathiaz> jiboumans: wubi is currently the blocker
<jiboumans> mathiaz: excellent, thanks for the update
<mathiaz> if anyone has a windows system, help in debugging/testing is welcome
<mathiaz> hop in #ubuntu-release to help out
<mathiaz> that's all on the 10.04.1 front
<SpamapS> Alright, so that should be it then, going once.. going twice..
<SpamapS> [TOPIC] Announce next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
<SpamapS> Tuesday 2010-08-24 at 1800 UTC
<SpamapS> right here in #ubuntu-meeting
<SpamapS> Thanks everyone!
<jiboumans> thanks all
<SpamapS> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:55.
<Dyth> Narwhal \o/
<Narwhal> :)
<Apoth> hi
<Dyth> Apoth: \o/
<Apoth> Dyth, |o/
<Andphe> o/
<andresmujica> oe Andphe o/
<Andphe> hi there :)
<lukibeni> hy all
<malev> hi
<sumesz> hi ppl
<outwork> good evning
<paultag> hey all
<nixternal> wasabi... paultag is there a link to the agenda? my daughter and i have plans in a few and wanted to see where Chicago stands on the list of 'reapprovals'
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/Agenda
<paultag> nixternal: roger. We can bump you if we need to
<paultag> nixternal: sec, let me get url
<paultag> nixternal: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/Agenda
<popey> slowpaul is slow
<popey> :)
<paultag> nixternal: 6th in line, your call, chief :)
<paultag> popey: oh noes!!
<nixternal> you guys plan on doing 6 today?
<paultag> yeah
<paultag> we've done a lot of review work before now, and this is just a review
<nixternal> jeesh, i have yet to be on a council that can do 6 of anything in 2 hours :p
<czajkowski> evening
<paultag> nixternal: :)
<nagaraja> hi good evening to all
<viky> hi
<nagaraja> it midnight 1.30am in India
<paultag> hey nixternal
<YoBoY> hi
<paultag> erm nagaraja
<mneptok> nixternal: every council i know can have disagreements in ~17 seconds. :)
<andresmujica> hi all
<paultag> mneptok: we do too ;)
<marquinos> Hi! :)
<czajkowski> ok will start in a moment
<nixternal> micahg and myself are here...the rest of the gang is afk enjoying summer, or working of course...or probably still sleeping
<mneptok> s/diasgreements/6\ disagreements/
<nixternal> chicago is lazy this time of year, or busy doing other things
 * micahg is working :)
<paultag> nhandler: PROD, lazy
<paultag> nixternal: I'm sure nhandler is here :)
<nixternal> micahg: I know what you do is really not work :p
<nixternal> paultag: actually he just left, or he got grounded
<paultag> Hahahahaha
<itnet7> ;-)
<nixternal> he texted me 30 minutes ago saying he was leaving
<SergioMeneses> hi :)
<czajkowski> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 15:00. The chair is czajkowski.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<czajkowski> Aloha and welcome to the LoCo Council meeting, running order will be in the order of the Agenda
<czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/Agenda
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/Agenda
<czajkowski> popey: paultag leogg itnet7  are we all ready
<paultag> czajkowski: yes ma'am
<itnet7> yes'm
<czajkowski> lovely jubbly lets get started
<hollman> [idea]
<MootBot> IDEA received:
<leogg> yep
<czajkowski> aplogies from huats
<hollman> just testing ..
<paultag> hollman: please play with mootbot in pm
<czajkowski> hollman:please don't :)
<czajkowski> [topic] Update from action items from last meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Update from action items from last meeting
<czajkowski> Nopopey to create pdfs of successful team re approvals as examples to help teams
<czajkowski> huats to set up a sample new wiki page for applications and to kick off email for loco council to work on
<czajkowski> we've no huats today so will postpone his till next meeting
<czajkowski> popey: any updae on your action item ?
<popey> gah, dropped off my radar
<popey> added back to todolist
<popey> sorry
<czajkowski> [action] popey to create pdfs of successful team re approvals as examples to help teams
<MootBot> ACTION received:  popey to create pdfs of successful team re approvals as examples to help teams
<czajkowski> np
<czajkowski> grand thats our Agenda part covered now for re approvals and approvals
<czajkowski> [topic] Colombia Team  Re Approval
<MootBot> New Topic:  Colombia Team  Re Approval
<czajkowski> so who's from Colombia here tonight ?
<andresmujica> Hi everyone
<paultag> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ColombianTeam/TeamReApproval2010
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ColombianTeam/TeamReApproval2010
<andresmujica> there're some ubuntu colombia teammates around
<andresmujica> o/
<czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ColombianTeam
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ColombianTeam
<czajkowski> [link] http://www.ubuntu-co.com/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.ubuntu-co.com/
<SergioMeneses> i'm
<SergioMeneses> o/
<andresmujica> that's out main wiki page, our official site and our reapproval wiki
<czajkowski> can I just say what a a FANTASTIC re approval Application that is
<Andphe> o/
<czajkowski> just WOW
<andresmujica> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ColombianTeam/TeamReApproval2010
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ColombianTeam/TeamReApproval2010
<paultag> I love the logo
<czajkowski> andresmujica: we have that
<andresmujica> nice logo yes,
<GuillermoC> o/
<czajkowski> andresmujica: see above paultag posted it
<andresmujica> it was done by the community on a contest
<KaOSoFt> I'm from Colombia.
<czajkowski> andresmujica: care to tell us about your loco so please ?
<czajkowski> how have you grown in the 2 years since your first approval ?
<andresmujica> At this moment the colombia team is on a transition, hollman our former contact and leader has stepped down after a really great work
<andresmujica> since our first approval.
<hollman> o/
<paultag> andresmujica: I see you have one missed objective -- can you tell us about what you did and why it failed?
<paultag> no motivation / no resources?
<andresmujica> About 6 months ago, under hollman initiative the concilio or council was formed between members of our community whom have work hard for Ubuntu.
<andresmujica> paultag:  the objective we missed was referring about showing the pc clones manufacturers in our country that they can use Ubuntu
<paultag> andresmujica: a great idea :)
<andresmujica> as the OS for choice on their installments, however due to lack of resources and the well stablished piracy it wasn' t really possible
<paultag> andresmujica: cool. Thanks
<andresmujica> however we've done a lot of community work trying to touch the bases, i mean educating people on Ubuntu.
<czajkowski> itnet7: popey leogg any other comments
<popey> nope
<andresmujica> Our community has grow exponentially and is still growing.
<itnet7> not from me
<leogg> andresmujica: can you tell us a bit more about the hacklabs? how do you organize them?
<andresmujica> sure!
<andresmujica> that's a great and nice initiative of one of our members
<andresmujica> the idea is to choose a specific topic
<andresmujica> on any tech area..
<andresmujica> networking
<andresmujica> kernel
<andresmujica> php
<andresmujica> apache
<andresmujica> etc
<andresmujica> and in a workshop
<andresmujica> we work from the ground up to build using ubuntu something around the topic
<andresmujica> a web server
<andresmujica> a new kernel
<andresmujica> etc..
<czajkowski> any other comments from the Colombia TEam ??
<leogg> andresmujica: do you rent the hack spaces?
<andresmujica> community members use their contacts so we can get access to an university room or venues like that
<andresmujica> normally we don't pay for them, just let people to get in and hack with us.
<czajkowski> ok we'll vote now
<leogg> really nice!
<czajkowski> [vote] Please vote on the RE Approval of the Colombia Team. Only LoCO COuncil members vote.
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Please vote on the RE Approval of the Colombia Team. Only LoCO COuncil members vote..
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<czajkowski> +1
<popey> +1
<paultag> +1
<czajkowski> excellent application
<paultag> Keep up the great work, oustanding job
<itnet7> +1
<leogg> +1
<itnet7> very good job
<andresmujica> great!
<paultag> [endvote]
<paultag> czajkowski: prod
<Andphe> \o/
<leogg> congrats colombia! really great work!
<hollman> \m/ thanks!
<czajkowski> paultag: vote isnt over
<Andphe> \o/
<SergioMeneses> :D thanks :D
<czajkowski> #endvote
<czajkowski> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 5
<paultag> :)
<GuillermoC> :D
<czajkowski> [agreed] Colombia Team re approved
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Colombia Team re approved
<popey> rocking!
<paultag> Outstanding job, guys
<luis_lopez> thanks loco council \o/
<paultag> keep it up, grats
<KaOSoFt> Congratulations, Colombia!
<andresmujica> thanks paultag czajkowski leogg popey all of you!
<paultag> andresmujica: thank YOU!
<czajkowski> [topic] Hungary Team Re Approval
<MootBot> New Topic:  Hungary Team Re Approval
<leogg> thank you andresmujica!
<czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HungarianTeam/ApprovalApplication2010
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HungarianTeam/ApprovalApplication2010
<czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HungarianTeam
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HungarianTeam
<paultag> toros: that's you!
<toros> Hi! \o.
<czajkowski> [link] http://ubuntu.hu//
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://ubuntu.hu//
<czajkowski> ok who's here from Hungary Team ?
<kelemengabor> o/
<ulysses> \o
<czajkowski> toros: aloha there!
<hajni> o/
<Dyth> o/
<hunmaat> \o
<wantoo> o/
<toros> .o/
<czajkowski> THanks for coming folks.
<paultag> heyya guys!
<outwork> o/
<lukibeni-HU> 0/
<czajkowski> also very nice wiki page, LOVE PHOTOS! :)
<Apoth-hu> \o
<toros> thanks!
<czajkowski> makes my day!
<itnet7> very nice!
<czajkowski> toros: so can you tell us about your team, and how you've grown in the last years please?
<toros> hugely! :) We have now almost 18000 registered users on our site
<czajkowski> impressive
<toros> 7 ubuntu members (as far as I remember, 2 years ago we were only 3 or 4)
<czajkowski> so how do you get people to know about your team ?
<czajkowski> good
<toros> Ubuntu is getting more and more popular in Hungary... even mainstream IT media covers it regularly
<paultag> toros: can you talk a bit about the translation work your LoCo is involved with?
<kelemengabor> I can :)
<toros> and people check the ubuntu.hu site first, when they want to know more about ubuntu
<czajkowski> so how does your team work, how are things shared out ?
<paultag> kelemengabor: go ahead :)
<toros> czajkowski: we have a core team who does most part of the work...
<czajkowski> You do a lot of events, how do you find the time and getting people to help out.
<kelemengabor> paultag: basically, we are in maintenance mode, so most of the Ubuntu software is already translated, we just need to keep it up
<toros> and we try to involve other people on Bug Jams
<czajkowski> Gotcha
<czajkowski> toros: do you do any mentoring ?
<toros> we organized events called Ubuntu Academy, where people could learn how to get involved in the loco
<czajkowski> toros: oh you're going to have to tell us about that
<toros> these are mixtures of presentations and jams
<czajkowski> cool
<leogg> toros: I love the fact that you do non-tech related stuff with the members of your LoCo... it's great for the cohesion of the group
<toros> so we have presentations about how translation works, how our loco site works, etc.
<czajkowski> toros: I'm looking on your main wiki and not seeing any team reports, do ye do them, as you do a lot of work so surely not shy of news?
<paultag> +1 toros
<kelemengabor> this is done by organizing translation events on Global Jams, to do the bigger chunks of work, and we coordinate actions via a wiki page, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HungarianTeam/TranslationCoordination where we follow the status of the important packages
<paultag> kelemengabor: awesome! Thanks!
<toros> we have a team report for july...
<czajkowski> toros: :) ok well hopefully will see more in the coming months will we :)
<kelemengabor> so that team members can quickly see where is something to do
<toros> czajkowski: we will :)
<czajkowski> toros: Reports ++
<czajkowski> toros: the stuff you do, you should share with people
<itnet7> it helps to encourage others
<czajkowski> exactly
<czajkowski> they can see what others are doing it gives them ideas
<czajkowski> ok I think we're ready to vote
<popey> yup!
<czajkowski> [vote] Please vote on the RE Approval of the Hungary Team. Only LoCo Council members vote.
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Please vote on the RE Approval of the Hungary Team. Only LoCo Council members vote..
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<paultag> +1
<popey> +1
<czajkowski> +1
<leogg> +1
<czajkowski> reports next month
<itnet7> +1
<paultag> toros: keep up the great work. kelemengabor keep up the outstanding translation work. REPORTS!!!
<czajkowski> [endvote]
<popey> \o/ woot!
<itnet7> awesome job!!
<czajkowski> [agreed] Hungary Team re approved
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Hungary Team re approved
<czajkowski> whooo
<popey> more rocking teams!
<toros> thank you! :)
<hunmaat> \o/
<Dyth> \o/
<Apoth-hu> \o/
<czajkowski> [topic] Indian Team Re Approval
<MootBot> New Topic:  Indian Team Re Approval
<czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ZATeam/ReApprovalApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ZATeam/ReApprovalApplication
<lukibeni-HU> \o/
<kelemengabor> thanks, we try to do our best :)
<czajkowski> bah
<paultag> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ZATeam/ReApprovalApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ZATeam/ReApprovalApplication
<Apoth-hu> byez
<paultag> Oh Shoot!
<nixternal> HAHAHA!
<paultag> Hahahaha
<czajkowski> ok their application is not there...
<paultag> One sec
<czajkowski> anyone from the Indian LoCO here?
<paultag> let me search. Who's contact?
<nixternal> I see the app
<nagaraja> yes
<viky> o/
<paultag> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TamilTeam/ApprovalApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TamilTeam/ApprovalApplication
<thangam_arun> yes
<nagaraja> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TamilTeam/ReapprovalApplication
<paultag> nagaraja: do you know the link on the agenda is broken?
<paultag> nagaraja: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/Agenda <-- You're not South Africa!
<nagaraja> please check the above link
<nagaraja> yes
<paultag> nagaraja: already posted it ;)
<mneptok> paultag: it may not be broken. tectonic drift may have accelerated tremendously. ;)
<paultag> mneptok: hahaha :)
<paultag> The little known wiki-plates
<paultag> so, nagaraja, tell us about your loco
<nagaraja> our loco team consists of 121 active members
<czajkowski> nagaraja: gotta say for 121 members that wiki application is rather poor
<czajkowski> there is only 1 event listed for 2010 and nothing for previous years
<nagaraja> we conduct various ubuntu awareness program in different colleges, schools and public events
<nagaraja> please check our reapproval application in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TamilTeam/ReapprovalApplication
<nagaraja> i think our link is broken
<czajkowski> sigh
<czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TamilTeam/ReapprovalApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TamilTeam/ReapprovalApplication
<czajkowski> this is like find the right wiki page :(
<nagaraja> i had added our team in last column in agenda https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/Agenda
<nagaraja> Tamil nadu, India
<czajkowski> nagaraja: are there team reports for 2010, I see you were doing them in 2009
<nagaraja> we are inactive in this year in sending the team reports
<czajkowski> nagaraja: has something changed?
<nagaraja> i become the team contact only on this month to effective maintain our loco team,
<czajkowski> what happened?
<nagaraja> changed? what you mean
<czajkowski> well team reports stopped in december 09 and it's august 10, just ye seemed really good at them
<nagaraja> ya,, we just didnt send the team reports but we are active in conducting various ubuntu awareness programs and events
<czajkowski> ok
<nagaraja> we will update soon
<czajkowski> nagaraja: so can you tell us your plan for the future, how do you plan to grow
<czajkowski> plans for the future
<nagaraja> ya sure
<czajkowski> thanks
<nagaraja> we plan to conduct ubuntu-India meeting at the end of this yea
<nagaraja> year
<nagaraja> plan to gather all ubuntu users at one place
<nagaraja> in India,
<czajkowski> nice idea
<czajkowski> how goes the organising of that kind of event? do you have lots of helpers?
<nagaraja> ya , we get helping hands from various open source organizations like ILUGC, NRCFOSS, JFC
<viky> CSMIT
<thangam_arun> also from FSF, Tamil Nadu
<czajkowski> ok good to know I look forward to hearing future plans of this
<czajkowski> so I think we're ready to vote
<czajkowski> [vote] Please vote on the RE Approval of the Indian Team. Only LoCo Council members vote.
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Please vote on the RE Approval of the Indian Team. Only LoCo Council members vote..
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<thangam_arun> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from thangam_arun. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<nagaraja> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nagaraja. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<czajkowski> [endvote
<czajkowski> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 2 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 2
<czajkowski> ok please stop voting
<czajkowski> I've said LC council members vote only
<czajkowski> you cant vote on your own team sorry
<paultag> czajkowski: /mode #ubuntu-meeting +m
<paultag> czajkowski: moderate them out
<czajkowski> [vote] Please vote on the RE Approval of the Indian Team. Only LoCo Council members vote.
<paultag> +0
<popey> +0
<czajkowski> +0
<itnet7> +0
<paultag> I'm not convinced, not sure yet. I'd like to see you guys come back
<leogg> +0
<czajkowski> [endvote]
<czajkowski> [agreed] At this time the LoCo council thinks it would be good to invite you back in a two months time with some more details
<MootBot> AGREED received:  At this time the LoCo council thinks it would be good to invite you back in a two months time with some more details
<nagaraja> sure thank you
<czajkowski> [topic] PerÃº Team Re Approval
<MootBot> New Topic:  PerÃº Team Re Approval
<nxvl> \o/
<czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PeruvianTeam/ApprovalApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PeruvianTeam/ApprovalApplication
<paultag> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PeruvianTeam
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PeruvianTeam
<xander21c> ;)
<czajkowski> ok thanks for coming folks
<xander21c> hi czajkowski
<nxvl> btw, viperhoot is in final exams and couldn't make it to the meeting, yet
<nxvl> so xander21c is representing and i'm being moral support :D
<xander21c> thats right :)
<czajkowski> xander21c: welcome and nxvl
<czajkowski> xander21c: so can you tell us about your team please ?
<xander21c> We are one of the most active teams in Peru, :)
<xander21c> we are invited to almost every event produce in PerÃº
<nxvl> even more active than the Plug
<czajkowski> ok so how is it then in your events http://wiki.ubuntu-pe.org/eventos there is nothing listed for 2009
<xander21c> also i organize our own event in order to get more people involve
<czajkowski> xander21c: what do you mean your own event?
<nxvl> czajkowski: we are bad documenting?
<xander21c> yes ubuntu days and release parties http://picasaweb.google.com/xander21c
<czajkowski> nxvl: a whole year of no events? or just not documenting them ?
<czajkowski> kinda hard to look at your application
<nxvl> czajkowski: the later
<xander21c> wiki documenting I an issue will currently resolve if the incursion of new menbers
<czajkowski> ok I think it would be best if we ask the Peru team to come back next month with their 2009 work Documented please
<czajkowski> [agreed] Peru Loco to come back in September with 2009 Events documented
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Peru Loco to come back in September with 2009 Events documented
<xander21c> ok
<czajkowski> xander21c: nxvl its just not possible to read your application right now without the information we need
<czajkowski> thanks
<czajkowski> [topic] New Mexico Team  Re approval
<MootBot> New Topic:  New Mexico Team  Re approval
<czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewMexicoTeamReApprovalApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewMexicoTeamReApprovalApplication
<czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewMexicoTeam
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewMexicoTeam
<paultag> IIRC they asked to do this over the ML?
<paultag> I could be wrong
 * mneptok is here to represent the NM LoCo, and hopes that does nto adversely affect our application ;)
<czajkowski> mneptok: no why would it
<paultag> hahaha
<paultag> mneptok: :)
<mneptok> czajkowski: /whois mneptok ;)
<mneptok> so, what can i tlel you about our LoCo and activities?
<paultag> mneptok: I love the cloak, haha
<mneptok> "tell," even
<paultag> mneptok: good question. Tell us a bit about some of the best spots of your loco
<paultag> what you see as the thing you take most pride in
<mneptok> i have a bithmark shaped like Slovenia on my left arm. those kind of spots?
<mneptok> well, we have release parties trwice per year that are well-attended.
<mneptok> we also organize events statewide for Software Freedom Day
<mneptok> (bot the ABQ team and folks out in Portales)
<paultag> mneptok: TMI aside -- do you have some photos from these events?
<mneptok> we have continued to work with EPC, and have kept their installation current and viable
<mneptok> paultag: hrm, i may be able to dig up a Karmic photo. in general, we are too busy talking, laughing, and enjoying ourselves to run around snapping photos.
<czajkowski> mneptok: trying to find any team reports do you do them>
<mneptok> czajkowski: in the past month i have spent a total of 4 days not on the road at conferences. so ... no. :)
<mneptok> we have also had booths at various trade shows in the ABQ area.
<czajkowski> mneptok: when I say you, I mean your TEAM
<czajkowski> as in TEAM REPORTS
<paultag> mneptok: I see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewMexicoTeam/Meetings
<paultag> mneptok: weekly meetings? C'mon man! You can do team reports! :)
<mneptok> czajkowski: i am in no way involved in team reports, and was asked only 4 hours ago to attend this meeting and represent us. so sorry, but i do not have that information at hand.
<czajkowski> mneptok: no bother
<czajkowski> mneptok: you might pass that onto the team :)
<czajkowski> ok I think we're ready to vite
<czajkowski> *vote
<paultag> I'm good
<czajkowski> [vote] Please vote on the RE Approval of the New Mexico Team. Only LoCo Council members vote.
<paultag> +1
<czajkowski> +1
<czajkowski> Team reports please next month!
<paultag> mneptok: I'm stunned by the weekly meetings
<paultag> hahaha
<czajkowski> leogg: itnet7 popey vote
<itnet7> mneptok: lol
<itnet7> +1
<itnet7> sorry hadn't seen the start
<paultag> popey: leogg
<leogg> +0
<popey> sorry
<popey> +1
<czajkowski> [endvote]
<czajkowski> [agreed] COngrats to New mexico Team on their Re Approval
<MootBot> AGREED received:  COngrats to New mexico Team on their Re Approval
<paultag> thanks mneptok :)
<czajkowski> mneptok: can we go shooting again!
<mneptok> thanks folkseses!
 * nixternal wants to go
<leogg> mneptok: i'm a brave man :)
<itnet7> very good work mneptok !
<mneptok> leogg: and i have no travel budget. so you're safe. :)
<paultag> speak of the devel, nixternal I think it's your turn
<paultag> devil
<paultag> ach
<leogg> hehe
<nixternal> devel, devil, all the same
<czajkowski> [topic] Chicago Team Re Approval
<MootBot> New Topic:  Chicago Team Re Approval
<micahg> \o/
<czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChicagoTeam/ReApprovalApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChicagoTeam/ReApprovalApplication
<czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChicagoTeam
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChicagoTeam
<czajkowski> welcome folks thanks for being patient
<nixternal> we gotta hurry, our ex-Governor is getting ready to have his verdict read in his corruption trial....want to see yet another of our famous Chicago politicians head to prison :)
<czajkowski> yay photos in the application :)
<nixternal> you can thank nhandler for that one :)
<paultag> nixternal: do I spy a nhander and swoody in the top one?
<nixternal> there were more photos, but i lost them before i was saved by flickr years ago
<nixternal> yes
<nixternal> and me in the back with my gangstah hat on
 * micahg isn't in any pictures
<nixternal> and eddie as well as j1mc
<paultag> micahg: :)
<paultag> nixternal: look'n fly
<nixternal> micahg: you going to barcamp this weekend? i have bike racing :)
<czajkowski> has the wiki died for anyone else bar me
<nixternal> pretty fly for a white guy
<nixternal> czajkowski: it is near death for me too
<micahg> nixternal: no, sorry, have a lot of stuff to catch up on, but I"ll be at the loco event the weekend after
<paultag> So, nixternal, what are some of the bright spots of your loco? Have you translated Ubuntu yet?
<paultag> I can never understand anyone from chi-town
<czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChicagoTeam/TeamReports
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChicagoTeam/TeamReports
<czajkowski> lovely to see :)
 * micahg thinks we should do a blago translation of Ubuntu :)
<nixternal> yeah, it is a mixture of italian, polish, spanish, with a bunch of other lingo thrown in
<paultag> czajkowski: yeah, well nhandler is on the team ;)
<czajkowski> I know !
<nixternal> czajkowski: you can thank nhandler once again :)
<paultag> They better have their reports!
<czajkowski> nixternal: so plans for the future, and how ye've grown since your approval?
<czajkowski> how have things changed?
<nixternal> heh, when we were approved (the 2nd US team approved to be exact, just behind Colorado because I had to go to the bathroom, and alphabetically Chicago was first) there was just a few of us
<nixternal> we have probably tripled in both members, participants, and current ubuntu members since then
<paultag> nixternal: that's like posting f1irst!! and coming in second
<nixternal> most of our ubuntu members are all devs
<nixternal> paultag: exactly, and joey standford will never let me live that one down
<_KAMI_Hungary> Go Hun!
<czajkowski> nixternal: aye you are lucky with your members
<nixternal> when we get members, they are usually of the active variety
<nixternal> if they aren't active, they tend to get bored, so we try to get them involved with something that suits them best, and then try to teach them how to do more with dev work, docs, and other stuff
<czajkowski> nixternal: any issues ye've encountered?
<nixternal> this year has been slow because a vast majority of us have been very very busy in our personal realm...right now my 13 year old daughter is driving me up a wall to take her shopping
<nixternal> czajkowski: we have yet to have an issue
<nixternal> everyone on the team is friends
<czajkowski> good ok
<czajkowski> I think we're ready to vote
<czajkowski> [vote] Please vote on the RE Approval of the Chicago Team. Only LoCo Council members vote. C
<czajkowski> +1
<paultag> +1
<itnet7> +1
<leogg> +1
<paultag> nixternal: great work, keep it up. Some of the most shining examples of Ubuntu are on your loco. Keep it up.
<itnet7> Very Good job nixternal ! You're team Rocks!!
<itnet7> oops lol YOur
<popey> +1
<czajkowski> [endvote]
<popey> and i promise to install kubuntu
<nixternal> haha
<czajkowski> [agreed] Chicago Team Re Approved
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Chicago Team Re Approved
<nixternal> thanks everyone! congrats to the others and good luck to the next!
<itnet7> pffft popey !
<popey> :)
<czajkowski> thanks nixternal happy shopping
<micahg> \o/ thanks everyone!
<paultag> thanks nixternal, micahg :)
<itnet7> gj micahg !
<micahg> thanks itnet7
<czajkowski> [topic] Asturian Team Approval
<MootBot> New Topic:  Asturian Team Approval
<marquinos> Hi! I'm :)
<czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AsturianTeam/ApprovalApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AsturianTeam/ApprovalApplication
<SergioMeneses> congrats
<czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AsturianTeam
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AsturianTeam
<dangerouspiper> Hi, me to
<czajkowski> marquinos: hi thanks for coming
<marquinos> ;)
<czajkowski> so welcome you're going for your Team Approval
<marquinos> thank you :)
<czajkowski> nice application,very clear,  you've been very busy
<marquinos> :$ No ready :P
<marquinos> A little ;)
<czajkowski> ok so would you like to tell us about your team, how you do things, and plans for the future
<marquinos> yes, of course
<ivarela> hi
<ivarela> i'm sorry to be late...
<czajkowski> ivarela: welcome
<marquinos> We are a small LoCo in Asturias (northern Spain), but the members are very active. Our LoCo is running for more than a year. Their website was released a few months ago, and I'm happy with the current situation, where there is a slow but constant incorporation of new members
<marquinos> welcome ivarela ;)
<marquinos> ivarela is from asturian team :D
<marquinos> Our plan is fixed the bug #1
<marquinos> hahahahaha
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1 in Ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<paultag> marquinos: can you tell us a bit about translations?
<marquinos> yes :) The Asturian language is the native language of Asturies
<czajkowski> marquinos: I see you've had some experience with working wiht the Catalan loco thats great to see
<marquinos> for first time, we enjoy of an OS in our language
<marquinos> was a very hard work
<paultag> marquinos: I see!
<marquinos> of a few years
<marquinos> the translations are done by team
<marquinos> ivarela is the coordinator
<marquinos> for that area :)
<paultag> Wow, for GNOME as well
<marquinos> it was the #1 in the world in the launchpad translations :D
<marquinos> he was (sorry)
<czajkowski> marquinos: so tell us, what are you plans for the future for your team ?
<marquinos> well, I would work for the normal people
<marquinos> I think Ubuntu
<marquinos> is for every body
<marquinos> not only geeks :)
<marquinos> then, I will give a microcourse
<paultag> *cough* nerds
<marquinos> s
<marquinos> and technical help
<marquinos> in the next months :)
<marquinos> we're working hard for introduce Ubuntu in the education
<marquinos> and some institutions
<czajkowski> great
<leogg> marquinos: the microcourses thing is a fantastic idea!
<marquinos> ;)
<czajkowski> can you tell us about them ?
<marquinos> Yes, I got from a Hiper
<czajkowski> ok any other comments you want to make ?
<marquinos> MediaMarkt gave a little courses for use a mobile phone, then I get the idea for Ubuntu: A little curse, of a simple an useful area
<marquinos> the 1help=1coffee is get from Mac Store xD
<czajkowski> brilliant
<marquinos> They give a wonderful technical help for a newbies
<paultag> I saw that photo on your site, I think it's very funny :)
<czajkowski> ok so we're going to vote
<czajkowski> [vote] Please vote on the Approval of the Asturian Team. Only LoCo Council members vote.
<czajkowski> +1
<paultag> +1
<itnet7> +1
<czajkowski> welcome
<leogg> +1
<popey> +1
<czajkowski> [endvote]
<paultag> keep up the great work marquinos, your translation work is amazing. Keep up the great attitude
<leogg> marquinos: congrats! great work!
<czajkowski> [Agreed] WElcome to the Asturian LoCo
<marquinos> :D
<ivarela> thank you all
<paultag> :)
<itnet7> very good work! Thanks for all you and your team have done for Ubuntu!
<marquinos> Thanks you, really :)
<czajkowski> ok thanks folks
<marquinos> for this rock OS
<czajkowski> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 16:24.
<paultag> thanks for coming, guys!
<mneptok> what does this big, red button on the wall do?
<marquinos> :)
 * mneptok presses
<dangerouspiper> thank you very much
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-08-18
<mvilla> Hola
<mvilla> Hola
<Unknownmind> Buenas
<Unknownmind> Buenos dÃ­as...
<Unknownmind> Alguien vivo?
<Unknownmind> Alguien me puede colaborar con una migracion
<Unknownmind> ?
<Unknownmind> Migracion de una db de joomla a un servidor local
<Unknownmind> ?
<cjwatson> hello
<cjwatson> robbiew: around?
<robbiew> aye
<robbiew> meeting time...but we have very few
<robbiew> ev and mvo on vacation
 * barry is here
<robbiew> Keybuk on holiday
<robbiew> well...on I have no internet holiday
<robbiew> cjwatson: perhaps we should skip
<robbiew> since we only have a handful of folks
<cjwatson> that leaves doko and surbhi
<cjwatson> yeah, if nobody has anything I'm happy to skip
 * cjwatson is reviewing the merge queue from surbhi :)
 * ScottK is curious if doko plans to merge python-defaults/python3-defaults, but that doesn't need a meeting.
<doko> hi
<doko> ScottK: you did tell me, that you did want to merge. so I didn't
<ScottK> doko: OK.  I forgot about that.
<ScottK> I'll do it.
<doko> thanks
<robbiew> heh
<doko> so any other business?
<doko> I'd like to schedule test rebuilds of the archive, but would like to choose a time when kde and gnome stacks are all built
 * barry reminds ScottK about two package reviews
<doko> plus having a general freeze exception for pyton3-* packages would be useful (these don't touch the CD's)
<ScottK> Right.
<ScottK> doko: I think LP rebuilds take too long to have any surety that KDE/Gnome would be built when any particular package got built.
<doko> ScottK: that is not my question
<doko> I just need a time/date for a snapshot
<ScottK> Oh.  Right.
<leini> ahm
<leini> whats that here now?
<ghostcube> meeting channel :)
<leini> nice i like meeting
<leini> and its english too?
<ghostcube> yes
<leini> wow.. seems as if i joined the right chan finally
<ghostcube> depends on what youve been looking for :D
<leini> nothing in special
<leini> but everywhere i went before they where either french or in a technicalsupportwhateverthing
<leini> so i'm just happy that this is for meeting and english
<ghostcube> ok a rule brake.. aber du kannst gerne udo joinen ubuntu-de-offtopic
<ghostcube> als Ã¶stereicher o.o
<leini> Ã¶sterreicherin
<ghostcube> ok back to english
<ghostcube> sorry
<leini> mensch muss jeder auf die IP glotzen? geht das nicht ohne?
<ghostcube> ich guck nur aufs land
<ghostcube> cause so you can directly send someone to the language support he needs
<leini> and why is everybody either french or german?
<ghostcube> maybe we should take this talk out of the official meeting channel
<ghostcube> not sure if this is wanted
<leini> why not?
<ghostcube> its logged and only used for shedueled meetings of the ubuntu teams
<leini> i am not in a ubuntu team and i don't even know what ubuntu is
<leini> i know it's zulu
<ghostcube> why are you joining ubuntu linux channel if not :D
<leini> so you wanna tell me that i'm not right in here again?
<leini> i got lost.
<ghostcube> gehste mal in ubuntu-de-offtopic bitte
<ghostcube> danke
<leini> da kann ich auch gleich ganz wo anders hin
<highvoltage> Howdy! Who's here for the Edubuntu meeting?
<highvoltage> Agenda is up on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Meetings/Agenda
<highvoltage> Anything we should add?
<highvoltage> here is the release schedule, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MaverickReleaseSchedule
<highvoltage> we're one month away from beta. then everything should be more or less working with minor bugs left to fix only
<highvoltage> currently we're more or less ok with feature freeze. the ubiquity enhancements is currently a bit behind schedule, and not yet in a working state
<highvoltage> but if it misses this release entirely, it won't be a major issue
<highvoltage> I discovered this wallpaper last week via OMG!Ubuntu! http://people.ubuntu.com/~jonathan/files/maverick/wallpapers/periodic-table.jpg
<highvoltage> I thought it was quite nice but the license was cc-by-nc, which we can't include in Ubuntu
<dinda> it is nice though
<highvoltage> so I contacted the author and he immediately changed the licensing for us, so it will be one of the included wallpapers in maverick!
<dinda> sweet!
<highvoltage> I'm also going to contact some of the artists who created these wallpapers: http://people.ubuntu.com/~jonathan/files/maverick/wallpapers/
<highvoltage> all of them are already released undera a free license, but has some issues, so maybe I can do some convincing since it's for edubuntu
<alkisg> Woo, nice wallpapers
<highvoltage> the first two that starts with CURRENTLY_NONFREE are also cc-by-nc
<highvoltage> http://people.ubuntu.com/~jonathan/files/maverick/wallpapers/snailrace.jpg is released under an artistic license
<highvoltage> that means we can't remove the VLADSTUDIO text but we are allowed to distrubute it
<dinda> is CC-By  the only license we can use?
<highvoltage> maybe I could get them to either remove the text or just change the license. maybe somewhat of a long shot but I decided to give it a shot anyway
<alkisg> Most of the vlad studio text will be covered by the bottom panel anyway :P
<highvoltage> dinda: we can use any free license, which includes but is not limited to: cc-by, gpl, gfdl, bsd and public domain
<highvoltage> alkisg: hehe, yes
<highvoltage> dinda: for people who use cc-by-nc, it's often easy enought to convince them to just drop the -nc
 * mhall119 is here
<dinda> ok, makes sense, thanks
<highvoltage> the periodic table wallpaper is already in the wallpaper chooser since today
<highvoltage> I'll add the GPL/CC-BY ones tomorrow and then the rest as they become available
<highvoltage> I plan to split the wallpapers out into a -wallpapers package, since our artwork package is already quite big and it's a lot to update for what's usually just a few text changes in the file
<highvoltage> I also uploaded Gnome Nanny last week
<highvoltage> some more information on Gnome Nanny here: http://www.tectonic.co.za/2010/06/gnome-nanny/
<highvoltage> stgraber added it to the seeds so it's included in the current edubuntu builds
<highvoltage> I'll try to get the gnome-nanny-data package uploaded too, it includes lists of sites and stuff that kids shouldn't be able to visit
<mhall119> is gnome nanny Gnome dependent, or just GDM dependent?
<highvoltage> mhall119: not sure. it uses gconf for some stuff so it's certainly somewhat gnome dependent
<alkisg> highvoltage: so gnome-nanny is in the maverick repositories? /me can't find it...
<mhall119> ok
<highvoltage> mhall119: talking of which, mgariepy (hrm I should get him to join these meetings) showed me some cool stuff he does with gconf paths with the desktop-profiles package, from what I've seen it might be possible to fix the qimo-gnome-desktop dillemma with that
<highvoltage> alkisg: package name is just 'nanny'
<mhall119> highvoltage: I think that's what I've been learning about on my own, so getting some guidance from someone who knows the "right way" would be fantastic
<alkisg> highvoltage: cool, thanks!
<alkisg> (nanny wasn't on packages.ubuntu.com yet but it's there)
<highvoltage> alkisg: ah yes, maverick is currently broken on packages.ubuntu.com :(
<alkisg> Ah
<highvoltage> bug I'm going to work on this week still includ: bug 619888, 614045, 588890, 613797, and 615162
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 619888 in edubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "Split edubuntu-wallpapers from edubuntu-artwork" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/619888
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 614045 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] Acire" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/614045
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 588890 in edubuntu-docs (Ubuntu) "Old artwork used in "About Edubuntu" page" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/588890
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 613797 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Edubuntu Maverick Alpha 3 installation went much slower than usual" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/613797
<highvoltage> ubottu: thanks
<ubottu> You're welcome! But keep in mind I'm just a bot ;-)
<highvoltage> anyone else have any bugs or technical work to mention before we move on?
<dinda> what's the status of the edubuntu-docs?  is that just updating the artwork?
<highvoltage> good question, we should actually have a section for docs for each meeting
<highvoltage> it will certainly need some updating but personally I haven't had any time to make any plans for it
<dinda> yes, always a tough task to find people to update docs
<highvoltage> dgroos started this so that we can put together a basic selection of instructions and tips for Edubuntu: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EdubuntuDocumentation/EdubuntuCookbook/BasicSetup
<dinda> anything considered critical for maverick other than artwork?
<highvoltage> so that would be quite useful. the built-in help system (yelp) in edubuntu would still need some further update though
<highvoltage> I don't think we have anything strictly marked critical at this stage. if I don't finish the ltsp and desktop integration plugins for ubiquity, we'd have a regression from lucid since we at least had some crude working version of that in there
<highvoltage> so I guess that's #1 on my todo list
<highvoltage> and that's probably going to take most of my edubuntu time over the next 2 weeks
<dinda> :)
<highvoltage> we should perhaps try to get the ubuntu-doc team involved a bit more
<dinda> highvoltage: there are always new people coming offering to help with docs but most cannot get through the download this branch from Bzr and then use docbook to edit stage
<dinda> minor patching stuff is fine and even better if they can just edit wiki pages
<highvoltage> dinda: *nod* imho if someone just even wants to write a blog entry or put their documentation into an MS Word document that's fine with me
<dinda> me too
<highvoltage> getting it wiki-ized or up on a webpage is something lots of us can do :)
<dinda> highvoltage: quick question o the wiki since it's come up. . .
<dinda> is the edubuntu wiki site completely separate from the main ubuntu wiki site?
<highvoltage> and someone in the ubuntu-doc team can then convert it into other formats from there
<highvoltage> dinda: that question comes up often. the edubuntu wiki and the ubuntu wiki is in fact the exact same wiki, with different skins
<dinda> ok, good
<highvoltage> dinda: this confuses many users, and even search engines
<highvoltage> so with the last release cycle we actually decided to drop the edubuntu theme, and just use the ubuntu wiki (redirecting links from the edubuntu.org domain)
<highvoltage> the same with the kubuntu wiki too.
<dinda> makes sense as most folks will start on the ubuntu wiki and search there
<highvoltage> I need to still create an RT ticket about that...
<highvoltage> ah! and more good news, canonical IS fixed the last permissions I needed on the webserver this morning
<highvoltage> I said before that I actually bought a new theme for the site
<highvoltage> we've had lots of tries on redesigns but people either lost the momentum or enthusiasm to complete it
<highvoltage> so I'm just going to adapt an existing great theme to our use
<mhall119> highvoltage: what platform does the website use?
<highvoltage> (I'll get a screenshot so long)
<highvoltage> mhall119: drupal
<mhall119> highvoltage: there is currently work on a Drupal theme to match the new ubuntu.com theme
<mhall119> it'll be based on the ubuntu-website project
<mhall119> just like the one we use for loco.ubuntu.com
<highvoltage> mhall119: when I'm done with our site, it's going to look better than the ubuntu.com site ;)
<mhall119> even better
<mhall119> just wanted to put that knowledge out there
<highvoltage> here's a sreenshot of the vanilla theme: http://people.ubuntu.com/~jonathan/files/maverick/website/mynx-theme.jpg
<highvoltage> and here's a link to a live demo, although you might have to choose the specific variation in the variation chooser: http://demo.rockettheme.com/drupal/?theme=mynxx
<mhall119> shiny
<highvoltage> what I like about that theme is, it's very functional, but also very basic, so it's easy to customize
<highvoltage> it will probably not be very recognisable as that theme when I'm done with it, but I think it can work as a very good base for the edubuntu site
<highvoltage> ah, if you choose the light-orange variation form the variation chooser, it will look like the one in the screenshot
<alkisg> Nice, it feel light... (/me hates heavy webpages like launchpad :D)
<highvoltage> dinda mentioned grassroot movements on the lists earlier
<highvoltage> I want the website to be welcomming and let people know that it's a grassroot-kind of movement
<dgroos> highvoltage: I agree, clean and nice balance of white space/content
<highvoltage> and I want to make it inviting so that people would actually want to get involved on all sorts of levels
<highvoltage> I want lots of stories of what people out there are doing with ubuntu in schools, at home
<highvoltage> and also stories of people who contribute, how they contribue and why they do it
<dgroos> very cool.
<dinda> highvoltage: I'll tell you what it was great to go to that Moodle conference and see educators inviting Dell to come see their LTSP and Ubuntu labs!
<highvoltage> edubuntu has been way too boring for too long and we need to change that :)
<highvoltage> dinda: awesome :)
 * mhall119 needs to attempt an LTSP lab one of these days
<highvoltage> dinda: it would be so cool if you could write a blog entry for the site some time when you go to such a conference again!
<highvoltage> well, when we actually have a blog up and running :)
<dinda> highvoltage: was just thinking it would be a nice time ask people to either post to the list or maybe we can create a wiki page of schools using Ubuntu - is there such a page now?
<highvoltage> dinda: I'm not sure. I think there used to be. would you perhaps have time to check?
<dinda> highvoltage: yip, searching now
<dinda> back to school time in north america might be a good time to ask folks to let us know if they are going back to school with ubuntu
<highvoltage> Anything else for this meeting? I think I pretty much covered everything on my list :)
<dinda> all good here
<dgroos> Back to school... tomorrow!
<highvoltage> dinda: the company I work for also does linux support and implementation for a bunch of school districts. I can probably get some people to do interviews with some schools when they go out there
<dinda> highvoltage: the article in T.H.E about Open source quoted folks from Revolution Linux
<highvoltage> cool :)
<dinda> T.H.E is an education magazine
<dinda> let me see if I can find the online link, I get the print edition
<highvoltage> great.
<pleia2> if someone creates a "school using ubuntu" page, please give me a nudge, I have a few to add
<dinda> http://thejournal.com/Home.aspx
<highvoltage> pleia2: great! will do!
<highvoltage> I guess that's it for this meeting?
<highvoltage> I'll post the logs to the list.
<highvoltage> Next week's meeting is the same time, same place
<alkisg> Thanks highvoltage
<dinda> thanks
<highvoltage> and thanks for joining in so that it's just not me blabbering for 30 minutes! :)
<highvoltage> meeting adjourned! *GONG*
<andrew_708476> Im after a bit of advicee here ? I downloaded clamAV and Im trying to install it but its not booting of my computer how do I get it to boot
<Seveas> andrew_708476, try #ubuntu
<angelabad> cjwatson? Or somebody who was yesterday in the DMB meeting?
<cody-somerville> angelabad, yes?
<angelabad> Hi cody-somerville, my application was pending, and
<angelabad> cjwatson told me to write to developer-membership-board@lists.ubuntu.com
<angelabad> yesterday I sent the email to the list, but it is in hold because
<angelabad> "Post by non-developer to moderated list.
<angelabad> "
<angelabad> cody-somerville? now I see in the wiki that my application has been re-scheduled for next
<angelabad> meeting, but August 31st is a very bad day for me.
<cody-somerville> angelabad, I'm sure a ML moderator will approve your message soon.
<cody-somerville> angelabad, And its no problem if you can't make the next meeting.
<angelabad> cody-somerville, ok thanks a lot!
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-08-19
<pupiquik> hola
<aday> hi all
<mpt> hi aday
<JanCBorchardt> hey everyone :)
 * mpt is almost finished upgrading to Maverick
<aday> what's happening? anything on the agenda?
<JanCBorchardt> I donât know if itâs related, but after Pongo was featured on OMG Ubuntu, activity on Launchpad has increased. One guy has even started on a GUI. :)
<mpt> excellent
<mpt> JanCBorchardt, is the GUI part of the same project?
<aday> JanCBorchardt: great news!
<JanCBorchardt> yes, he is developing it in a separate branch. I didnât have the time to look at it yet.
<mpt> oh, separate project: https://launchpad.net/pongo-gui-version
<JanCBorchardt> and I contacted the developer of Screenkey (a tool which captures key presses) if he would like to collaborate since his tool is really only useful when combined with a recording program. He has a lot of work to do but seems enthusiastic about collaborating. :)
<mpt> excellent
<JanCBorchardt> mpt, I guess he just opened a new project instead of branch by mistake. We mailed, so as soon as I have time I will take a look at it and hopefully incorporate it.
<mpt> ok
<JanCBorchardt> my goal is to have just this one Pongo package that needs to be installed (automatically getting istanbul, screenkey etc) and just work.
<mpt> That would be ideal
<JanCBorchardt> someone has pointed me to Deskscribe, a program which graphs mouse movements and clicks: https://launchpad.net/deskscribe
<JanCBorchardt> I didnât know about that and it would certainly be interesting to incorporate it somehow
<JanCBorchardt> so it will likely move away from being a Â»lightweight scriptÂ« â but instead be more independent and grab its dependencies automatically.
<aday> it's great to have some momentum behind pongo
<aday> makes sense
<JanCBorchardt> yes, definitely. Many thanks out to Joey who blogged it. The second use as a screencasting tool is really helping there. :)
<JanCBorchardt> so, thatâs it from me
<mpt> Hi andreasn_
<mpt> (and hi thorwil too)
<andreasn_> hello
<JanCBorchardt> Iâll incorporate some development progress in my next blog post where I want to describe Guerilla usability testing with Pongo
<JanCBorchardt> hey andreasn_ :)
<thorwil> hi!
<JanCBorchardt> and thorwil ;)
<mpt> aday, would you like to talk about what's going on with Gnome design and Gnome OS etc? I saw there were office hours yesterday in #gnome-design but I was in a meeting and missed them
<aday> mpt: sure... for those that don't know - there are weekly office hours happening on #gnome-design 14:00 - 15:00 UTC
<aday> it's intended as a chance for designers to get together, and for people to get involved in gnome design
<aday> we had our first one yesterday. bit quiet to begin with, but hotted up. had some good discussion about the new control center designs
<aday> there's a fair bit to do there, if anyone's interested ;)
<aday> as for GNOME OS, that's an idea to model GNOME on something like android or meego - so it would be a whole stack with a single 'app store'
<mpt> I'm in the "interested but swamped" category
<JanCBorchardt> aday, sorry I couldnât really attend, I was travelling
<wers-android> ooh. so the intention is to accommodate an app store? is that the main motivation?
<aday> JanCBorchardt, mpt: sure, there will be more meetings. we had pretty good attendance yesterday though
<aday> the specifics for what 'GNOME OS' might mean are still being worked out. it's very much a concept that is in development
<andreasn_> the control center discussion ended up with a list of stuff that needs to be supported in the new control center http://openetherpad.org/4ISiGNbKEl
<aday> wers-android: i don't really know that much about it, but i think it will be a topic of discussion at the upcoming boston summit
<wers-android> shucks i can't go to the Boston summit...
<aday> but yes, i think the general aim is to reduce some of the current fragmentation - so that a 'gnome' app can run on any 'gnome' installaiton (whatever that meanns ;) )
<aday> (i'm reading between the lines here)
<aday> andreasn_: ah yes, thanks. that still needs to be finished off! anybody got any suggestions for the etherpad?
<wers-android> so I'm wondering about solaris. that could be offtopic, tho
<thorwil> aday: btw, etherpad allows custom urls instead of character-salad ;)
<wers-android> i meant, what will gnome os do to non-linux platforms
<aday> wers-android: i guess that's one of the details that still needs to be worked out :)
<wers-android> yep. i guess, the heavy JavaScript usage on Shell is a good first step
<andreasn_> regarding the control center. This is the main page http://live.gnome.org/Design/SystemSettings/
<aday> thomas wood is doing most of the control center implementation: http://blogs.gnome.org/thos/
<aday> and mockups are in the gnome-design gitorious repo: http://gitorious.org/gnome-design/gnome-design
<aday> which works really nicely with sparkleshare :)
<aday> mpt: what do you make of the etherpad?
<mpt> aday, I don't understand why anyone's trying to decide from scratch what should be included
<mpt> instead of porting what exists now, and making individual decisions about adding/removing things.
<andreasn_> indeed, that sounds like a better list to make
<aday> mpt: there was some talk about how the different parts should be grouped and categorised. thomas wanted to get an overview... that's all i can say ;)
<mpt> ah
<mpt> Well it might be interesting to list what *is* available now, to make sure you don't miss anything, and then (re-)categorize that
<aday> mpt: indeed
<thorwil> a clear strategy behind what to include and what to exclude would be good to have
<mpt> Also think about where custom items would go (e.g. if you buy an input tablet with its own control panel, how can that slot in next to the Keyboard and Mouse panels?)
<aday> mpt: yeah. it would be great if you could talk this over with thos, if you've time
<mpt> ok
<aday> the parts of the control center that have been looked at are shaping up really nicely, i might add. there are some really cool mockups
<aday> web integration is going to be one focus - we're hoping to have a 'web accounts' panel, and there is already flickr integration in the background chooser
<mpt> Is that all for this week, then? :-)
<thorwil> was there a topic before pongo?
<mpt> no
<mpt> thanks everyone
 * mpt restarts into Maverick
<JanCBorchardt> ok, bye all :)
<jesusda91> bnas alguien a utilizado aircrack?
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-08-20
<Tardelo> Hola buenas tardes o noches
<beuno> temposs, hey hey, I'm reading ahead all the candidate applications, and you don't seem to have any testimonials
<beuno> do you happen to have any members of the community that have worked with you around?
<temposs> hi bueno
<temposs> hmm, I didn't do that, no
<C3s4r> Hi all.
<j_baer> Checking In!
<beuno> temposs, that's fine, just wanted to give you some early warning
<beuno> we're almost ready to start!
<temposs> oh, it seemed like an optional bit
<beuno> it is, it's just a big boost  :)
<temposs> oh
<pleia2> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 19:03. The chair is pleia2.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<pleia2> Hello and welcome to the Ubuntu Membership Review Board for the Americas meeting for August 19th The wiki page for the Review Board is available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/Americas
<pleia2> We will attempt to get through all of the applicants that have added themselves to that list before today's meeting. If we are unable to make it through the entire list due to time constraints, then at the next meeting we will pick up where we left off.
<pleia2> The format for the meeting is as follows: We will go through the list of applicants one by one, by date of application (FIFO).
<pleia2> Each applicant should introduce themselves (1-5 sentences) and provide links to their Ubuntu Wiki page. After the introduction the members of the Membership Review Board will review the pages and, if needed, ask the applicant further questions.
<pleia2> During this time it is encouraged for other members of the community to show their support for the applicant. Do not be alarmed if the members of the Membership Review Board are quiet during this time; they are most likely reading wiki/launchpad/forum/other pages and deciding how they are going to vote.
<pleia2> When the board is ready to vote, they will publicly vote in the channel with either +1, 0, or -1 (for membership, abstain, and against membership, respectively). If the sum of those numbers is positive, then the applicant is now an official Ubuntu member! (feel free congratulate them!)
<pleia2> Now, with any further ado, lets get started with the first applicant...
<pleia2> [TOPIC] C3s4r membership
<MootBot> New Topic:  C3s4r membership
<C3s4r> Hi all
<C3s4r> First of all, sorry for my bad writing into English.
<C3s4r> I hope to meet the expectations for membership in the ubuntu project.
<C3s4r> I have since 2006 supporting the project LoCoTeams Ubuntu and Ubuntu-ve since then I have been promoting a national level with the various projects I've made since then.
<C3s4r> Since 2006 part of several organizations for the development of Free Software events nationwide (Venezuela), bringing in those oportundades to Richard Stallman, just as local events and facilities to develop OS Ubuntu.
<C3s4r> I am currently Coordinator of the Academy of Free Software Regional Zulia, and we provided various web services, dns, mail, everything under the SO Ubuntu Server. Similarly, I have participated and still participating in the Free Software migration at national level with the current support of a presidential decree requiring all public institutions to migrate to SL in which I am leader of migration in Fundacite Zulia. http://www.fundacite-zulia.gob.ve.
<C3s4r> My link: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CesarSevilla and https://launchpad.net/~c3s4r
<maco> C3s4r: no need to apologise for your english :)
<pleia2> wow, tons of event work :)
<beuno> C3s4r, si, I've seen you around more than a few times
<beuno> I'm curious, what's been driving you to be so involved these past 5 years?
<C3s4r> beuno, thank's
<C3s4r> One of the things was to find the opportunity to enjoy the freedom to implement any technical changes in the OS, especially in Ubuntu.
<beuno> C3s4r, I have one more question for you. What do you feel needs improving in Ubuntu?
<C3s4r> Also, Ubuntu gave me a chance to meet many, many projects and above all the opportunity to apply the type of work they do as a team
<maco> C3s4r: what took you so long to apply?
<C3s4r> Assist in the development of free software drivers. Disseminate additional packaging methods.
<pleia2> [VOTE] C3s4r membership
<MootBot> Please vote on:  C3s4r membership.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<pleia2> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<maco> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from maco. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<nhandler> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nhandler. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<dinda> give me one second to catch up
<C3s4r> pleia2, For fear of not knowing how to write or speak English.
<dinda> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from dinda. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<beuno> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from beuno. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<pleia2> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 5
<pleia2> congrats and welcome, C3s4r! :)
<C3s4r> :D
<C3s4r> thank's all
<temposs> ooo very impressive C3s4r :-)
<nhandler> Congratulations C3s4r !
<temposs> you are a very good contributor, I think
<pleia2> j_baer: you here?
<C3s4r> nhandler, and try to do better every day.
<j_baer> Hello everyone
<pleia2> [TOPIC] j_baer membership
<MootBot> New Topic:  j_baer membership
<j_baer> I've been a user and contributor to ubuntu for many years.
<maco> wait have all of today's people been using ubuntu longer than me and contributing longer too? O_o
<j_baer> Don't  know :)
<j_baer> My interest is in the area of usability and I am a long term member of the art team and others.
<j_baer> A summary of activity can be seen at my wiki page. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JohnBaer
<nhandler> Wow, lots of great themes and the countdown banners were great
<dinda> agreed, lots of great work
<j_baer> Current activity now is author of the Impression GTK Theme: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/07/impression-gtk-themes-get-radical.html
<j_baer> and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Maverick/ImpressionGtkThemes
<j_baer> I also blog about ubuntu here: http://www.projblog.com/
 * nhandler would enjoy seeing those types of posts on the Planet
<j_baer> In other activities I have also contributed to MoinMoin ... :)
<beuno> j_baer, what drives you to contribute artwork?
<j_baer> Bringing the best user experience is a major driver for me. IMO Ubuntu leads in this area.
<pleia2> yeah, we're fortunate to have attracted a lot of great artists like yourself
 * pleia2 can draw stick figures, barely
<nhandler> j_baer: You mentioned usability, what specific area are you interested in?
<beuno> having the same passion as you, together with all your great work, I am ready to vote  :)
<j_baer> Well you know art is in the eyes of the beholder :)
<nhandler> j_baer: See my question please
<j_baer> Sorry ...  Most of my work has been with GTK and how it guides and assists users of the desktop.
<j_baer> With the many changes at hand I am impressed by the fact folks are asking how will that work and does it add value.
<pleia2> [VOTE] j_baer membership
<MootBot> Please vote on:  j_baer membership.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<pleia2> +1
<j_baer> This release has been very active.
<MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<maco> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from maco. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<nhandler> j_baer: Can you also please identify with nickserv (as a formality): /msg nickserv help identify
<beuno> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from beuno. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<j_baer> Sorry, I may need some help here :( Is the syntax /msg ubuntu-meeting help identify ?
<beuno> j_baer, /msg nickserv identify YOURPASSWORD
<IdleOne> /msg nickserv identify yourpass
<j_baer>  /msg nickserv help identify hollycombs
<maco> time to change that password?
<IdleOne> j_baer: ok type this /msg nickserv identify hollycombs
<IdleOne> then we will get your pass changed
<IdleOne> :)
<j_baer> Darn - I rather liked it. :)
<nhandler> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nhandler. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<pleia2> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<pleia2> congrats and welcome j_baer :)
<nhandler> Great work j_baer
<j_baer> Thanks everyone ...
<beuno> j_baer, \o/  welcome
<pleia2> ok, looks like temposs fell off
<pleia2> cnd, are you here?
<beuno> I'm thrilled your on board
<beuno> j_baer, be sure to add your blog to the ubuntu planet ASAP!
<j_baer> Will do ...
<IdleOne> j_baer: congrats!
<andrew__> this is temposs
<andrew__> I'm sorry, X-Chat crashed just now
<beuno> j_baer, and if you can get a few clones of yourself, the community will benefit quite a bit, so look into that as well please  :)
<pleia2> andrew__: can you change your nick and identify w/ nickserv, please?
<pleia2> [TOPIC] temposs membership
<MootBot> New Topic:  temposs membership
<andrew__> please hold on a second for that
<andrew__> I think temposs didn't get logged out
<pleia2> it did, just /nick temposs
<temposs> sorry
<temposs> haven't used X-Chat before, really
<temposs> am I adequately identified?
<pleia2> ok, please go ahead and introduce yourself and link to your pages, if anyone is here to give testimonals they can speak up at any time :)
<nhandler> Yep
<temposs> thank you
<temposs> I have been a user an contributor to the Ubuntu community since 2006
<temposs> *and
<temposs> My primary focus points in my contribution have been 1) helping new users of Ubuntu
<temposs> and 2) contributing to desktop apps that make Ubuntu more robust
<temposs> I have more than 1000 posts on the forums, primarily in the Absolute Beginners Area
<temposs> In that arena I have done things such as packaging a Lexmark driver for Ubuntu: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HardwareSupportComponentsPrinters/LexmarkPrinters
<beuno> temposs, has that package been uploaded to the repos?
<temposs> (the Lexmark Z600)
<temposs> no, I have not gotten around to that
<nhandler> temposs: I see your wiki focuses on bugs reported and bugs fixed. Any bug triaging work?
<maco> do you need a sponsor?
<maco> nhandler and I can both sponsor packages
<maco> if that's all that's stopping you
<temposs> nhandler: I have done some bug triaging in network manager and deja-dup and wine, among others
<nhandler> temposs: Any plans to apply to Bug Control in the future ?
<temposs> maco: yeah, I also need to check that the package works in the current version of Ubuntu
<temposs> maco: I don't actually have this printer...I developed it completely based on user feedback
<maco> temposs: join #ubuntu-packaging after the meeting if you need help sorting out setting up pbuilder and such
<beuno> temposs, any LoCo involvement?
<nhandler> I see you are part of the IL LoCo team on LP. What part of IL are you in?
<temposs> nhandler: I do not know what Bug Control is, but I am happy to apply to any kind of group like that
<temposs> maco: I will do that
<nhandler> temposs: https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-bugcontrol They help triage bugs for Ubuntu
<maco> temposs: Bug Control is the group that can do things like set importance or mark a bug as triaged. its a step beyond Bug Squad
 * nhandler notes the bug squad also have a mentoring program to help train people
<temposs> bueno: there is no LoCo around here, but I have been involved with the LuG at the university
<nhandler> temposs: What university?
 * nhandler is from IL
<temposs> University of Illinois- Urbana Champaign
<pleia2> temposs: you've done some great work over the years, but I'd really like to see you join bug control, work toward getting your package uploaded, and get some testimonials from folks you work with, really just get involved with teams and the wider community a bit more :)
<nhandler> temposs: Ah, yeah. A bit far from the Chicago LoCo, but definitely some good Ubuntu-folks down there. Stop by #ubuntu-chicago sometime though ;)
<dinda> temposs:  could you maybe get some more testimonials from the forums area?
<dinda> it looks like you've done some good work over there
<temposs> there is one person I keep in contact with who I helped significantly, but he's not online currently
<temposs> Also, the deja-dup package I contribute to most is maintained by a Canonical employee
<temposs> he already wrote me a letter of recommendation for Peace Corps
<temposs> but I don't have access to that text
<temposs> ...
<temposs> I thought the testimonial was optional
<dinda> temposs: it helps show your invovlement
<temposs> and especially since I have much of my interaction with other community members/users documented on the forums and launchpad
<dinda> temposs: there is a foaf system, friend of a friend system, that helps us understand your overall involvement. . .
<dinda> so testimonials widen your friend circle and most likely overlap with our circles. . .
<pleia2> temposs: testimonials don't need to come from members or anyone official, just folks who know your work on the forums, perhaps ones you've worked with on deja dup or other projects you've triaged with
<temposs> I think this should be documented more completely in the membership instructions...
<nhandler> Wasn't one of the pages just updated about that? /me goes to check
<beuno> temposs, so it looks like you've contributed quite a bit to the project, great job. I think you're a few inches away from being at the right stage, but I feel you need to get involved with more of the community, teams and processes
<temposs> what I saw is: If there are recognized members of the Ubuntu community supporting you at the meeting, this will definitely speed up the process of approving you. If your "sponsors" can't attend the relevant meeting, ask them to leave a testimonial on your wiki page about your contributions.
<temposs> Note: They do not need to be Ubuntu Members, just a part of the community, even your local community. Testimonials in languages other than English are fine. Some members of boards are multilingual, and if not, they can use a translation tool.
<pleia2> beuno: I agree
<nhandler> " It is important that members demonstrate the ability to interact with others, so detailed endorsements from others are important criteria that are evaluated during your application, because they give better insight into specific parts of the community. Testimonials from members of various parts of the community are appreciated, even if they're not Ubuntu members themselves."
<pleia2> temposs: can you gather some testimonials and perhaps work toward getting the package included and joining bug control? you're welcome to come back in a month or two and have us re-evaluate your application :)
<maco> I'm kind of put off by you making a package and not trying to get it into the repos to benefit more users :-/  Would be nice to work more closely with the Ubuntu Dev team
<temposs> pleia2: I can do that
<nhandler> temposs: If you need help, please do not hesitate to ask. I know we would all be willing to help point you in the right direction
<pleia2> temposs: great, keep up the good work, hope to see you again soon!
<temposs> ok, thanks for the suggestions :-)
<pleia2> ok, last call for cnd
<maco> who's already a member anyway :P
<pleia2> yeah, via -dev
<pleia2> nhandler: sending an email?
<nhandler> pleia2: Yep.
<pleia2> ok, I think we can wrap this meeting up then!
<pleia2> thanks for coming everyone
<nhandler> Great meeting everyone. Congrats to the new members
<dinda> thanks all, congrats
<pleia2> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 20:05.
<samoangunner> hello
<samoangunner> is there a Ubuntu server help chat?
<JFo> samoangunner, I believe there is an #ubuntu-server channel that could help
<JFo> yep, I just checked
 * marjo waves
 * skat_ waves back to marjo
<ogra> moop
 * sistpoty|work waves
 * robbiew sits down in the back
<robbiew> :)
<skat_> :)
<robbiew> and notices he has some unfinished action items...bah!
<Riddell> hi
<seb128> hi
 * skat_ skat was planning to ask robbiew about those ;)
<skat_> hi all
<marjo> hi skat_ welcome!
<cjwatson> good afternoon
 * mathiaz waves
<mathiaz> skat_: welcome!
<skat_> thanks for the welcomes :)   time to start?
<jdstrand> o/
<marjo> skat_ ready!
<skat_> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:02. The chair is skat_.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<skat_> [TOPIC] 10.10 beta
<MootBot> New Topic:  10.10 beta
<skat_> [TOPIC] open action items
<MootBot> New Topic:  open action items
<skat_> robbie?
<marjo> robbiew?
<robbiew> I'm still working on growing the release team..which isn't a trivial task at all
<skat_> :)
<robbiew> I guess I could say I found skat_ :)
<robbiew> but I have this as a ToDO
<robbiew> and don't think we need to carry it on the Actions list
<robbiew> as for talking to pitti about the SRU tracker...will do that today and update
<robbiew> the wiki and send email
<skat_> fair 'nuf
<robbiew> that's it for me
<skat_> dyfet around?
<skat_> dyfet, any update on the Kubuntu armel build issues?
<robbiew> may have to carry this one over
<ogra> work is going on
<Riddell> 15:57 < dyfet> Riddell: I am discussing right now with NCommander.  It has become a python-qt4 build issue at the moment
<Riddell> is what he said a moment ago
<robbiew> cool
<ogra> right
<dyfet> yes, we were discussing kdebindings this morning.  The problem I am facing is with python-qt4 currently...NCommander said he had a patch for that
<ogra> they are working on it (i have that in the ARM summary too)
<robbiew> skat: can probably mark this as "Done"...as dyfet has taken ownership of the situation
<dyfet> (or as ogra said :)
<skat_> cool.  will do.
 * ScottK-droid waves.
 * robbiew sits back down and shuts up
<marjo> robbiew: you can relax now
<robbiew> ScottK-droid: that's a funny nick in many different ways...lol
<skat_> ok, ... then on to the next item ;)
<skat_> [TOPIC] QA Team report
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Team report
<marjo> Hardware automated testing
<marjo> http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
<marjo> Laptop
<marjo> Passed:   41 (85%)      Failed:    0 ( 0%)      Untested:  7 (15%)
<marjo> Server
<marjo> Passed:   56 (84%)      Failed:    0 ( 0%)      Untested: 11 (16%)
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
<marjo> Netbook
<marjo> Passed:   13 (81%)      Failed:    0 ( 0%)      Untested:  3 (19%)
<marjo> Desktop
<marjo> Passed:   11 (79%)      Failed:    0 ( 0%)      Untested:  3 (21%)
<marjo> There is an environmental issue in the Boston DC that is preventing testing of some systems.
<marjo> fader is investigating.
<marjo> Boot Performance Week of 2010-08-16 to 2010-08-20
<marjo> http://people.canonical.com/~cr3/daily-bootcharts/
<marjo> Total number of systems with regressions: 0 out of 30 systems
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~cr3/daily-bootcharts/
<marjo> robbiew: ameetp will continue to improve charts, based on feedback
<robbiew> ack
<marjo> ScottK-droid,  robbiew: We are just starting to collect data for UNE and Kbuntu regularly so regression information was not available.
<marjo> need to build up data first
<marjo> ok?
<ScottK-droid> Glad to see it being collected.
<marjo> Milestoned Features
<marjo> qa-maverick-mago-daily
<marjo> Retargeted to end of release, due to higher priority projects.
<skat_> marjo,  update on the bluetooth issues from last week?
<marjo> skat_ don't have any, sorry
<marjo> skat_ we are planning to do manual tests, so will confirm then
<skat_> cool.
<skat_> any other questions for QA?
<marjo> Unresolved Critical/High Milestoned Bugs
<marjo> None
<marjo> Unresolved Critical/High Release Targeted Bugs
<marjo> 617583:Candidate revision checkbox_0.10.2
<marjo> Unresolved Targeted Regression Bugs
<marjo> None
<marjo> Unresolved Bugs with Patches
<marjo> None
<mathiaz> marjo: I'll take a look at checkbox 0.10.2 today
<marjo> cr3 is working 617583
<marjo> mathiaz: much appreciated
<mathiaz> marjo: he has already submitted a branch for review
<mathiaz> marjo: I just need to review and sponsor it
<marjo> mathiaz: ack & thx
<marjo> skat_ that's it from QA team
<skat_> thanks!
<skat_> any other questions?
<skat_> [TOPIC] Security Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security Team
<jdstrand> o/
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<jdstrand> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-security.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-security.html
<jdstrand> Short report this week.
<jdstrand> No milestoned bugs. Blueprints are basically on track (several have been postponed throughout the cycle).
<jdstrand> mdeslaur has uploaded to -proposed packages for security-m-tls-renegotiation-updates, our last remaining essential blueprint.
<jdstrand> The necessary hardware recently has been made available (with the linaro kernel) for kees to continue his work on arm-m-missing-security-features.
<jdstrand> We have one release-targeted bug: bug #545795. Got upstream feedback. I'm working on it today and should get it out certainly by early next week if not today.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 545795 in libvirt (Ubuntu Maverick) "apparmor driver blocks access to some hostdev and pcidev devices" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/545795
<jdstrand> that's it from me
<skat_> thanks jdstrand
<skat_> any questions for security?
<skat_> [TOPIC] kernel team update
<MootBot> New Topic:  kernel team update
<jdstrand> skat_: sure thing :)
<ogasawara> Overall Kernel Team status is summarised at the first URL below, including the item(s) called out in the agenda.  Our burndown chart for Beta is at the third URL, and our overall burndown chart is at the fourth:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick#Milestone ubuntu-10.10-beta
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-kernel-team-ubuntu-10.10-beta.html
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-kernel-team.svg
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick#Milestone ubuntu-10.10-beta
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-kernel-team-ubuntu-10.10-beta.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-kernel-team.svg
<ogasawara> On the bugs noted in the agenda, status is as follows:
<ogasawara> Bug 605488 - Currently assigned to kernel dev (lag - Lee Jones).  This issue only appears to surface when the swapper is active.  Lee is still investigating.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 605488 in linux-ti-omap4 (Ubuntu Maverick) "BUG: scheduling while atomic: mmcqd/46/0x00000002" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/605488
<ogasawara> Bug 605739 - Believed to be resolved in the latest linux-ti-omap4-2.6.34-903.7 kernel. Still waiting for verification before closing.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 605739 in linux-ti-omap4 (Ubuntu Maverick) "BUG: Bad page state in process swapper pfn:94d23" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/605739
<ogasawara> Bug 566645 - The patch in question is already included in the latest Maverick kernel. I've posted a comment to the bug and marked it Fix Released.  The Lucid SRU still remains open and under consideration.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 566645 in linux-ti-omap (Ubuntu Lucid) "OTG configuration is broken on omap kernel" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/566645
<ogasawara> Bug 369850 - Seems this was resolved in cups.  I've subsequently closed the Maverick kernel task for now and posted a comment requesting that a new bug be opened in the event any new id's need to be added to the Maverick parport_pc driver.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 369850 in cups (Ubuntu Maverick) "Cannot set up parallel port printer" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/369850
<ogasawara> As a general status, we've rebased to the lastest 2.6.35.2 upstream stable kernel.  The 2.6.35.2 stable updates unfortunately brought in a noticable regression, Bug 618846.  We've since applied a fix and uploaded a new kernel, linux-2.6.35-17.23.  Also, per the Tech Board decision, we've dropped support for ia64 and sparc from the kernel.  We are above the trend line for our Beta release burndown chart but below
<ogasawara>  the trend line overall.  The remaining Beta release work items are not release critical.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 618846 in linux (Ubuntu) "Kernel 2.6.35.2 reports "scheduling while atomic"" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/618846
<ogasawara> Questions?
<cjwatson> Can https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kernel-team/2010-August/012272.html be applied for the next kernel upload?  Tim's acked it already.  I can't upload a merged grub2 without it, and that's a prerequisite for a non-prehistoric mdadm - bit of a chain.  (My apologies for not noting this problem before now, I should have done.)
<ogasawara> cjwatson: yep, on my list todo this morning.
<cjwatson> thanks
<skat_> thanks ogasawara
<skat_> any further questions?
<cjwatson> Also, I know that JFo is going to do some more triage on the bugs induced by grub gfxpayload=keep, but it would be nice if those could get some development effort at some point for natty
<cjwatson> I mean, in the lead-up to natty, so that we can hope to turn this on again
<ogasawara> cjwatson: ack, will get it on our radar
<cjwatson> much appreciated :)
<JFo> on it on my side as well
<skat_> [ACTION] ogasawara to track grub gfxpayload=keep for Natty pre-work
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ogasawara to track grub gfxpayload=keep for Natty pre-work
<skat_> ... looks around, seems like time for next topic...
<skat_> [TOPIC] Foundations Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations Team
<cjwatson> hi
<cjwatson> I've been away for three weeks and only got back on Monday.  Bear with me while I proceed to show how I have no idea what's going on.
<cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<cjwatson> There are various tail-ends of feature work here; the ones most likely to result in some further work are buy-something, cd-build-speed, installer-redesign, and uefi-support.
<cjwatson> We'll probably switch grub2-boot-framebuffer back off for beta, and continue work on it out of band.  General summer holiday chaos meant that it was difficult to get it the amount of kernel support it required, and it seems at this point that it's too risky to leave it switched on.
<cjwatson> Mostly we have a great big pile of bugs.  Summary of those listed on the agenda:
<cjwatson> bug 441941, bug 563916, bug 601030, bug 604765, bug 613008: no updates at this time
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 441941 in grub2 (Ubuntu Maverick) "grub fails after running Windows" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/441941
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 563916 in plymouth (Ubuntu Maverick) "[details.so] No prompt for [S]kip or [M]anual recovery on server boot" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/563916
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 601030 in gcc-4.4 (Ubuntu Maverick) "broken configuration test with fortify source " [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/601030
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 604765 in OEM Priority Project "[Maverick] 32bit Ubuntu installer not calculating swap correctly for PAE systems" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/604765
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 613008 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Maverick) "failed to install oem-config from CD" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/613008
<cjwatson> bug 459639: will probably mitigate by switching off grub2-boot-framebuffer
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 459639 in upstart (Ubuntu Maverick) "X server starts randomly in failsafe when starting from cold boot" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/459639
<cjwatson> bug 553745: incidence should have been greatly reduced by mountall changes, but appears to still be happening occasionally
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 553745 in plymouth (Ubuntu Maverick) "plymouthd crashed with SIGSEGV in ply_event_loop_process_pending_events()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/553745
<cjwatson> bug 563916: awaiting response from patch submitter to review feedback
<cjwatson> (er, duplicate there, bad editing, sorry)
<cjwatson> bug 544139: cjwatson working on a tentative fix
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 544139 in consolekit (Ubuntu Maverick) "Active VT tracking can fail at startup" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/544139
<cjwatson> bug 605042: -> Linaro
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 605042 in openjdk-6 (Ubuntu Maverick) "[armel] java fails to start with eglibc-2.12-0ubuntu4" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/605042
<cjwatson> bug 600782, bug 602273, bug 604087: fixed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 600782 in initramfs-tools (Ubuntu Maverick) "fatal error on startup - "ramzswap: Unknown parameter `disksize_kb'"" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/600782
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 602273 in casper (Ubuntu Maverick) "PXE booting the desktop image fails to configure network" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/602273
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 604087 in iscsitarget (Ubuntu Maverick) "iscsitarget fails with can't create a target 2 0" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/604087
<cjwatson> that's all from me - any questions?
<skat_> thanks cjwatson...   will be digesting and follow up after.  :)
<skat_> anyone else have questions?
<cjwatson> yep, big pile of infodumps
<skat_> [TOPIC] server team
<MootBot> New Topic:  server team
<ScottK-droid> Need to decide on updating python-numpy.
<mathiaz> The release status for the server team can found at:
<mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/MaverickReleaseStatus
<mathiaz> Some highlights from this week:
<mathiaz>  * 10.04.1 Server released! Thanks hggdh for helping testing UEC. (mathiaz, hggdh)
<mathiaz>  * Cloud images can now be run from kvm/libvirt. (smoser)
<mathiaz> * puppetmaster-passenger package available to streamline the installation of a scalable and permormant puppetmaster system. (mathiaz)
<mathiaz>  * daily vcs PPA available for memcache. (zul)
<mathiaz>  * munin will be used instead of collectd for UEC monitoring. (SpamapS)
<mathiaz>  * Eucalyptus 2.0 testing on maverick. (kirkland, hggdh)
<ScottK-droid> Sorry. Slow typing on the phone. Can deal with it later.
<mathiaz> Blockers (5):
<mathiaz>  1. server-maverick-upstart-conversion: upstart job review from fondation: winbind bug 612958, ntp bug 604717, dhcp bug 612975
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 612958 in samba (Ubuntu) "Please convert winbind init script to upstart." [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/612958
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 604717 in ntp (Ubuntu) "Please convert init script to upstart" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/604717
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 612975 in dhcp3 (Ubuntu) "Please convert init scripts to upstart." [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/612975
<mathiaz> fondation?
<mathiaz> who can help with that?
<cjwatson> this flow of stuff has been difficult because Scott has been away a bit
<cjwatson> I can look at them, but can't necessarily be authoritative
<mathiaz> cjwatson: ok
<mathiaz> cjwatson: what would be the impact of FF on these items?
<ogra> yeah, he is greatly missed, the arm team also has some stuff we would like his input on
<mathiaz> cjwatson: does it make sense to still accept upstart jobs now in the maverick cycle?
<cjwatson> mathiaz: things that are leaf packages or relatively uncomplicated should be OK; I'd recommend against anything that's hard
 * mathiaz nods
<mathiaz>  2. server-maverick-community: awaiting feedback (who?).
<mathiaz> I need to figure who's being chased
<mathiaz> and follow up with them
<mathiaz>  3. server-maverick-monitoring: waiting on eucalyptus upstream feedback on munin plugin.
<mathiaz>  4. server-maverick-workitemtracker: Inverted burndown chart waiting for review.
<mathiaz>  5. server-maverick-hadoop-pig: Waiting for Canonical signing Cloudera Corporate CLA.
<mathiaz> it's in the hand of the legal team
<mathiaz> For specs, their status is on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/MaverickReleaseStatus
<mathiaz> Beta-milestoned bugs:
<mathiaz> #
<mathiaz> Bug 572317 - image-store does not support images without a ramdisk (niemeyer): might use a workaround instead, discussions ongoing
<mathiaz> #
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 572317 in image-store-proxy (Ubuntu Maverick) "image-store does not support images without a ramdisk" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/572317
<mathiaz> Bug 556763 - eucalyptus/authorized-keys/* preseeds no longer supported (Daviey) - should be a simple fix in udeb
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 556763 in eucalyptus (Ubuntu Maverick) "Debconf eucalyptus/authorized-keys/* preseeds are not supported by eucalyptus-common" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/556763
<mathiaz> #
<mathiaz> Bug 610987 - euca-describe-availability-zones verbose incorrect output (Daviey) - a man(page) bug
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 610987 in eucalyptus (Ubuntu Maverick) "euca-describe-availability-zones output is a hint, not totally accurate - and should be documented" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/610987
<mathiaz> #
<mathiaz> Bug 599342 - Temporary failure in name resolution (hallyn) - Needing some upstart guidance.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 599342 in libvirt (Ubuntu Maverick) "Temporary failure in name resolution" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/599342
<mathiaz> they're all assigned
<mathiaz> Unresolved Critical/High Milestoned Bugs
<mathiaz>     *
<mathiaz>       572317:image-store does not support images without a ramdisk
<mathiaz> this is still on discussion with gustavo
<mathiaz> and I think that's all from the server team
<mathiaz> any questions?
<skat_> robbiew,  who can help on getting feedback for blockers #2 & #3?
<skat_> mathiaz,  what's the ETA on feedback from legal?
<mathiaz> skat_: 2. - Daviey is following up
<mathiaz> 3. - we're dealing with upstream directly
<skat_> cool :)
<mathiaz> skat_: nope - hopefully a couple of days
 * robbiew sits back down
<mathiaz> skat_: it hasn't a direct impact on the release itself
<cjwatson> mathiaz: 556763> for the record, the change that's needed is in eucalyptus-common, not in the udeb - the point of the bug is that the udeb works fine but the facility is desired to be extended to package-based installations
<mathiaz> skat_: it's a CLA to contribute to upstream packages and archive
<mathiaz> cjwatson: agreed
<skat_> mathiaz,  cool.  ok, if its not affecting release.
<skat_> any more questions?  (will go back to ScottK's when he's back again ... )
<skat_> [TOPIC] desktop update
<MootBot> New Topic:  desktop update
<seb128> hey
<seb128> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<seb128> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-desktop-team-ubuntu-10.10-beta.html
<seb128> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-desktop-team.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-desktop-team-ubuntu-10.10-beta.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-desktop-team.html
<seb128> Work items summary:
<seb128> We are a bit behind on the beta trend but some of the items are documentation or bug reporting improvements which can easily be delayed. We are on track for the maverick trend
<seb128> Week work summary:
<seb128> - GNOME has been updated to 2.31.91
<seb128> - we got a new unity update in
<seb128> - our web browsers maintainer started a discussion with the tb on how we can maintain chromium in main, we deferred that to next cycle but still to be clear on what would be required for that so we are ready for UDS and next cycle
<seb128>  
<seb128> The status of the bugs is being updated, I'm not going to dump the list there though but the list is mostly under control
<seb128>  
<seb128> There are still some feature freeze exception pending, especially from the dx team and unity, I guess dbarth will give details on those
<seb128>  
<seb128> Worth knowing that the retracers are broken due to launchpad bug #620458 which means crash bugs don't get retraced at the moment and so we have low visibility on current crash issues in Ubuntu
<seb128>  
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 620458 in Launchpad Bugs "cannot access attachments of private bugs any more" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/620458
<seb128> that's it
<seb128> questions?
<davidbarth> seb128: FF exceptions for? appemu or indicator-me you mean?
<seb128> davidbarth, unity gesture support
<seb128> being one thing
<davidbarth> seb128: oh, this one, right
<Riddell> over at Kubuntu..
<seb128> I think indicator-sound will still need changes and in players as well
<Riddell>  - ubiquity KDE frontend needing more work before beta
<Riddell>  - currently going through translations QA, some problems but nothing very unexpected
<Riddell>  - qt4-qws needing approval by archive admin
<Riddell>  - lucid.1 release successful
<Riddell>  - expect to make a FFe for bluedevil to replace kbluetooth shortly
<skat_> seb128,  where will you be updating bug status?  (for the minutes ;) )
<skat_> Riddell, should I be calling it out as a separate topic?
<Riddell> skat_: I'd prefer that yes
<seb128> skat_, in the next half an hour
<skat_> [ACTION] skat_ to update agenda & flow for kubuntu.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  skat_ to update agenda & flow for kubuntu.
<skat_> thanks seb128,  bounce me a link when you're done. :0
<skat_> s/:0/:)/
<seb128> skat_, ok
<skat_> Riddell,  there seem to be a bunch of un-triage kubuntu bugs against the release.   who should be looking into them?
<Riddell> I need to do a first post feature freeze run through the bugs, but it'll have to wait until I'm done with ubiquity
<skat_> ok.   Ones I spotted that looked relevant were bug #608746,  #613636, #613834...
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 608746 in gfxboot-theme-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "Kubuntu Maverick CD Boot Changes" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/608746
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 613636 in plymouth (Ubuntu) "Kubuntu Maveric ISOs show purple "Ubuntu 10.10" boot splash instead of the blue Kubuntu one." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/613636
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 613834 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "DIfficult to find "Prepare for Shipping" applet in OEM install on Kubuntu Maverick" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/613834
<skat_> thanks Riddell.
<skat_> any further questions for kubuntu?
<cjwatson> I expect I can cover 608746 - I think I asked Riddell to file that because I was going to be away RSN
<Riddell> yes
<skat_> [TOPIC] user experience
<MootBot> New Topic:  user experience
<davidbarth> hmm, is that DX or Design?
<skat_> ...  hmm  just following the agenda robbiew gave me ;)  jump in.
<seb128> davidbarth, it's dx
<davidbarth> right, should be dx, anyway ;)
<robbiew> skat: Desktop Experience = DX
<davidbarth> weekly report as usual: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/MaverickReleaseStatus
<seb128> skat_, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2010-08-20, you skipped desktop experience?
 * skat_ blush
<davidbarth> nw, but add me to the next posting please
<skat_> seb128, davidbarth - yup bad page break.
<davidbarth> highlights of the status:
<skat_> davidbath, will do.
<davidbarth> appmenu is finally getting there, we're rushing to get the latest patch for the default desktop menu in
<davidbarth> 95% complete, but with some perf. improvements and now bugs we'll have to fix next week and after
<davidbarth> gtk: the big changes are over; there are still tons of little adjustments coming this week and next week before UIF at the theme level
<davidbarth> Cimi and chaotic are on that in particular
<davidbarth> the sound indicator is sealed; ronoc managed to get mprisv2 support in, depsite a last minute reshuffling of the whole API
<davidbarth> indicator-me is late; it will require a FF exception, at least to iron out the remaining UI adjustments
<davidbarth> unity: ok apart from the brand new MT integration, that will also require a FF exception unfortunately
<davidbarth> questions?
<Riddell> what's MT?
<davidbarth> multi-touch
<davidbarth> utouch, i should have said
<Riddell> davidbarth: did you get the global menu kde apps on gnome issue you had diagnosed?
<davidbarth> oubiwann's team new amazing project!
<davidbarth> Riddell: it is fixed, yes
 * skat_ wondering if I should feel dread now about MT..
<davidbarth> Riddell: i've spotted icon issues this morning, but agateau was investigating why some were not fdo compliant
<davidbarth> MT rocks!
<skat_> :)
<davidbarth> it's just coming late, but it's been working very well for us so far
<Riddell> I'd expect they're just icons which aren't in the fd.o spec, it's not all that complete as a spec
<davidbarth> right
 * skat_ feels a little less dread ;)
<davidbarth> other questions?
<skat_> any other questions?
<skat_> :)
<davidbarth> sorry
<skat_> np.   :)
<skat_> [TOPIC] user experience ... really this time.
<MootBot> New Topic:  user experience ... really this time.
<davidbarth> ivanka is not there this week
<robbiew> skat_: so I've yet to get someone to attend from their team :/
<robbiew> and ivanka is out
<robbiew> so we can skip this week
<skat_> robbiew, davidbarth,  thanks.  will do.
<skat_> [TOPIC] ARM team
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM team
 * ogra is here
<ogra> Detailed status at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARMTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<ogra> ...
<ogra> Short summary:
<ogra>  * the whole team is researching oem-config issues with the current images (Bug #616581) (thanks to cjwatson for helping with the most blocking item here)
<ogra>  * ubuntu-netbook-efl-default-settings is still pending fixes to the default 2D session (blocked due to not working images)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 616581 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Maverick) "oem-config fails to run" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/616581
<ogra>  * ongoing "normal" work on main ftbfs
<ogra>  * ARM team QA participated in the QA sprint this week
<ogra>  * issues with e2fsprogs (or the omap4 kernel, we are not sure yet) were seen and are being researched currently
<ogra>  * work on kdebinding fixes has been started by dyfet (hopefully being fixed soon)
<ogra>  * NCommander sacificed his soul for demonic assistane in bringing Marvell Dove supported mainline again (and enabled the first daily live images for the dove subarchitecture)
<ogra> ...
<ogra> Beta Status:
<ogra> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile-ubuntu-10.10-beta.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile-ubuntu-10.10-beta.html
<ogra> Overall Status:
<ogra> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile.html
<ogra> ...
<ogra> Beta targeted specs:
<ogra> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/mobile-m-omap-edid-autodetection
<ogra> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/mobile-maverick-arm-improved-subarch-detection
<ogra> ...
<ogra> There are again 10 Beta targeted bugs (we fixed some but new ones grew)
<ogra> ...
<ogra> Still 2 Blocker Bugs:
<ogra> bug 605739
<ogra> bug 616581
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 605739 in linux-ti-omap4 (Ubuntu Maverick) "BUG: Bad page state in process swapper pfn:94d23" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/605739
<ogra> any questions ?
<skat_> ogra, cool that Marvell dove support is in mainline again.
<ogra> well, it will cause a lot of pain
<ogra> but thats NCommander's headdache (luckily)
<NCommander> I paid the price for it :-/
<ogra> come on, you get nice chinese food
<ogra> ;)
<NCommander> yes, but now I need to buy a replacement soul on ebay
<ogra> heh
<ogra> skat_, so if there are no more questions, feel free to move on ...
<skat_> thanks.
<skat_> [TOPIC] MOTU team
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU team
<sistpoty|work> o/
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: around?
<robbiew> sistpoty|work: he had to leave
<sistpoty|work> not really much news from my side, ftbfs are still worrying, and unmet deps are as well
<robbiew> (10:33:47 AM) ScottK-droid: Need to run due to being on vacation. MOTU input is need to push on NBS and FTBFS, but no major concerns.
<sistpoty|work> heh
<sistpoty|work> that's it ;)
<skat_> cool.   any questions?
<skat_> [TOPIC] derivatives update
<MootBot> New Topic:  derivatives update
<skat_> anyone around to talk to Linaro?
<JamieBennett> Hi Kate, on the Linaro front â¦
<JamieBennett> Linaro Release Meeting yesterday
<JamieBennett> [LINK] http://wiki.linaro.org/Releases/WeeklyReleaseMeeting/2010-08-19
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://wiki.linaro.org/Releases/WeeklyReleaseMeeting/2010-08-19
<JamieBennett> Two bugs to be worked on next week, bug #605042 and bug #615765
<JamieBennett> We have a few FFeâs that are to be filed, u-boot-linaro, linaro-meta, and a GPS app yet to be determined, geoclue-skyhook was approved for FFe already
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 605042 in openjdk-6 (Ubuntu Maverick) "[armel] java fails to start with eglibc-2.12-0ubuntu4" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/605042
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 615765 in binutils (Ubuntu Maverick) "strip corrupts armel archives" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/615765
<JamieBennett> other than that there is nothing related to the Ubuntu release to announce.
<JamieBennett> EOF
<skat_> thanks JamieBennett.
<skat_> any questions?
<skat_> [TOPIC] 10.04.2 update
<MootBot> New Topic:  10.04.2 update
<robbiew> I added this thinking it's good to keep the point releases in mind...early!
<ogra> like ... really early ...
<robbiew> heh
<Riddell> is it scheduled?
<skat_> robbiew,  :)  agreed.   anyone around who can talk to it?
<robbiew> we have a "planned" release date...yes
<robbiew> I don't think we need to say much now
<skat_> Riddell,  planned release date 2011/1/27 per agenda...
<skat_> Riddell,  ;)
<robbiew> just want it there to keep it in folk's mind
<skat_> thanks robbiew
<skat_> Any other questions before we end meeting?
<tgardner> robbiew, the installer folks need enough time to add the LTS backport kernel
<pitti> not sure whether I should bring up a potentially disruptive maverick change at this point?
<robbiew> tgardner: ack
<sistpoty|work> pitti: referring to udev?
<robbiew> pitti: um...yes :)
<pitti> we currently carry some outdated modem infrastructure in maverick
<pitti> there is a project usb-modeswitch, which has superseded our modem-modeswitch a fair while ago
<pitti> but since neither me nor Scott had much time for udev in maverick so far, it got neglected
<pitti> sistpoty|work: that, too
<pitti> the modem-modeswitch -> usb-modeswitch change is not a trivial thing, and needs some testing
<ogra> does it affect any other stuff beyond modems ?
<pitti> well, it's for UMTS/3G cards
<pitti> i. e. for those USB sticks and mobile phones
<ogra> i.e. heavy udev changes that could break other stuff
<pitti> ogra: udev itself is relatively easy, see bug 620977
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 620977 in udev (Ubuntu Maverick) "[FFE] update udev to 161" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/620977
<ogra> or is it just a set of new rules
<pitti> I went through all changes today
<pitti> and it's blocking some updates in GNOME as well
<pitti> but it requires changing to usb-modeswitch, which is a bigger change
<pitti> if we do that, I'm happy to send out a call for testing and regressio reporting to u-devel, etc.
<robbiew> pitti: I'm sure marjo's team can assist with that
<pitti> I have an usb 3g stick which I can test, but not much else
<pitti> my laptop has one of those gobi things, and it's broken in maverick (and not affected by mode switch in the first place)
<robbiew> so I have a built-in 3G card from Ericsson...would that be useful to test as well?
<pitti> robbiew: does it look like a CD-ROM
<pitti> ?
<pitti> I think this mainly affects USB sticks
<robbiew> ack
<tgardner> pitti, I though we got a gobi loader? didn't smb do that?
<pitti> they first act like a CD-ROM and have windows drivers
<robbiew> we do..it's in universe
<pitti> and you need to poke it with some black magic to switch over to modem mode
<robbiew> and /me is about to create an MIR for it
<cjwatson> right, usb-modeswitch is relevant on the devices that present as either CD-ROM or modem but never both at the same time (i.e. the manufacturer is too cheap to include a USB hub)
<tgardner> ah
<pitti> tgardner: that works, but hte modem never connects for me; but different topic
<robbiew> wasn't there some other manufactuer who's device did that...huwaei?
<pitti> so, I'm happy to prepare the switch and test it with my Huawei 3G stick (which is affecteD)
<robbiew> heh
<cjwatson> it's also possible to quirk the kernel to set up those devices that way by default
<pitti> but I want to get some consensus about switching this late
<cjwatson> robbiew: also Option
<pitti> the advantage of that is that we get _much_ better 3G coverage
<pitti> modem-modeswitch is obsolete, unmaintained, and doesn't work for a lot of newer devices
<cjwatson> I don't like the userspace modeswitch *at all*, but modem-modeswitch and usb-modeswitch are the same in that regard
<cjwatson> might as well use the one that everyone else seems to use
<pitti> cjwatson: ack; hack either way
<robbiew> I think if we can get this in pre-Beta, sure
<pitti> but at least we'll use the current hack :/
<robbiew> then we have a better chance of getting more testing...as loads of people tend to jump on the beta
<pitti> robbiew: I have udev packages prepared for testing, and usb-modeswitch has been in Ubuntu for ages; just needs a MIR and a dependency (or seeding)
<robbiew> ok
<skat_> [ACTION] Robbiew to create MIR for modem infrastructure upgrade
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Robbiew to create MIR for modem infrastructure upgrade
<robbiew> whoa...
<sistpoty|work> I pretty much agree with robbiew, would be good to get it in pre beta
<pitti> FYI, bug 521578  covers the usb-modeswitch change
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 521578 in modemmanager (Ubuntu Maverick) "FFE: usb-modeswitch should be included by default on Maverick" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/521578
<skat_> robbiew.... heh - will delete if you tell me to. ;)
<robbiew> I think pitti is doing the MIR...I'm doing one for another package
<pitti> it's a dependency of bug 620977 in order to not regress
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 620977 in udev (Ubuntu Maverick) "[FFE] update udev to 161" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/620977
<pitti> robbiew: ack
<pitti> can someone else in ~ubuntu-release ack these two bugs then?
<skat_> pitti, robbiew - will clean up actions after the meeting.  :)
<robbiew> ack
<skat_> anything else?
<ogra> close it !
<skat_> thanks all
<pitti> skat_: yes; a warm welcome from me!
<skat_> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:25.
<ogra> skat_, yeah, good job
<robbiew> nice work skat_
<sistpoty|work> pitti: ack'd usb-modeswitch
<skat_> thanks to robbiew for setting up the agenda.  :)
<seb128> skat_, the bug status update is on the desktop team wikipage
<skat_> seb128,  cool.  thanks
<seb128> skat_, not sure bug #575160 should be listed as it's an universe component and assigned to a community member already so...
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 575160 in seamonkey (Ubuntu Maverick) "seamonkey 2.0 crashes with 'RenderBadPicture' diagnostics" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/575160
<sistpoty|work> pitti: I'll take a closer look at udev once I'm home, unless someone else beats me to it ;)
<pitti> sistpoty|work: cheers
<skat_> seb128,  ok.  will dig a bit there.
 * skat_ heads off to start editing minutes....   
<marjo> skat_ thx!
<seb128> skat_, thanks
<mathiaz> Ã©wc
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-08-21
<jose> buenas noches comunidad libre
<jose> compre un pc de escritorio y tube un incoveninte al momento de actulizar ubunto
<daniloz> hola
<daniloz> necesito ayuda, tengo instalado ubuntu server 8.10 pero a la hora de actualizarlo no me lo permite
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-08-22
<SergioMeneses_> hello
<SergioMeneses_> somebody?
<SergioMeneses_> czajkowski: are you busy?
<czajkowski> SergioMeneses_: not really
<SergioMeneses_> czajkowski: look: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGlobalJamEs
<czajkowski> SergioMeneses_: yup
<SergioMeneses_> czajkowski: I would like to appear on the official website...
<czajkowski> SergioMeneses_: have you created an event on loco.ubuntu.com
<czajkowski> all of the global events are on there
<SergioMeneses_> czajkowski: oks....
<czajkowski> np
<czajkowski> SergioMeneses_: all of the Global jam events are now under there and not the wiki
<SergioMeneses_> mmm... i see
<SergioMeneses_> czajkowski: but not is a local event... we will involve all Spanish speaking
<czajkowski> SergioMeneses_: it;s a global event though still, as spanish is spoken over a few areas
<czajkowski> also this channel isn't the best place for this conversation can you pop into #ubuntu-locoteams
<SergioMeneses_> czajkowski: oks... thanks
<SergioMeneses_> czajkowski: me->https://launchpad.net/~sergiomeneses
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-08-15
<cjohnston> bdmurray: ping
<jdstrand> hello
<micahg> \o
 * sbeattie waves
<mdeslaur> hello
<jdstrand> let's get started
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Aug 15 17:07:09 2011 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Useful Commands: #topic #action #link #idea #voters #vote #chair #action #agreed #help #info #endmeeting.
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Review of any previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review of any previous action items
<meetingology> TOPIC: Review of any previous action items
<jdstrand> huh, that's new
<kees> yeah
<jdstrand> meetingology: hello
<meetingology> jdstrand: Error: "hello" is not a valid command.
<jdstrand> anyhoo
<jdstrand> seems we don't have any ACTION items from last week, so moving on
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<meetingology> TOPIC: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> so, I am back after my tour of the southern US
<jdstrand> as such, I am dealing with quite a bit of backlog (email, et al)
<jdstrand> in addition to that, I have some dbus/apparmor stuff to get back to
<jdstrand> (sorry I didn't get dbus uploaded before FF)
<jdstrand> I saw a few Oneiric apparmor profile bugs come in, so I'll fix those
<jdstrand> and then a bunch of archive admin catch-up
<jdstrand> I may pick up an update, but have a feeling I will not get to it
<jdstrand> that's it from me
<jdstrand> kees: you're up
<kees> okay, I'm on triage
<kees> and since I didn't get much triage done last week, this week will have more! :)
<kees> the kernel bug sync tools are in good shape now; they implement everything apw and I have identified as needing to be implemented.
<jdstrand> kees: nice!
<kees> but I'll continue to keep an eye on it for tweaks. after that, I seriously need to get a handle on my work items
<kees> the graphing stuff just keeps slipping
<kees> in other news, kvm is now PIE
<bliss> why bother, nobody would waste their time writing a kvm exploit
<kees> bliss: your join and that comment were perfectly timed!
 * bliss bows
<kees> anyway, that's it from me. mdeslaur is up!
<jdstrand> re kvm> woohoo
<mdeslaur> hiya!
<jdstrand> :)
<bliss> when will ax25d be PIE?
 * mdeslaur points troll finger at bliss
<mdeslaur> so, I justpublished two updates
<mdeslaur> and I _still_ have foomatic to test
<mdeslaur> I'm currently working on some new stuff for vm-new
<mdeslaur> and will also go down the list
<mdeslaur> that's it from me
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up
<kees> (oh, did a ton of MIR work last week. there is still more to do...)
<sbeattie> I'm still wading through email after having most of last week off.
<sbeattie> I'm on community this week.
<sbeattie> and I have two days of holiday at the end of this week.
<sbeattie> I also need to untangle my work items and do more stuff on the apparmor front.
<sbeattie> that's pretty much it for me.
<sbeattie> micahg: over to you
<micahg> should be publishing a long overdue webkit update today
<sbeattie> \o/
<jdstrand> \o/
<micahg> on track to release Firefox and Thunderbird tomorrow with upstream
<mdeslaur> \o/
<jdstrand> micahg: awesome :)
<micahg> when that's all done, the last chromium update broke html5 on maverick and natty, so I've held off on publishing
<jdstrand> micahg: is upstream aware of it?
<micahg> idk, I tried to ask in their support channel yesterday w/no response, will try later today
<jdstrand> grr..
<micahg> weekend is understandable :)
<micahg> later this week, I need to discuss with pitti about Maverick migrating to Firefox 6 w/the final langpack update
<micahg> I'd like to have 6 go through proposed/updates, then 7 will go through -security
<jdstrand> micahg: does that mean lucid will get firefox 6 soon?
<micahg> jdstrand: not necessarily, I'm still waiting on upstream's plans for 3.6.x EOL
<jdstrand> makes sense
<jdstrand> though, since maverick and lucid have the same release, I wonder if it is worth the effort there
<micahg> this is driven by the end of langpack updates for maverick which is needed for the rapid release migration
<jdstrand> (ie, on maverick)
<jdstrand> ah
<micahg> so, that's it for me
<jdstrand> thanks
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<meetingology> TOPIC: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/kolab-cyrus-imapd.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/audacity.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/neon26.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/xymon.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/monkeysphere.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<meetingology> TOPIC: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
 * bliss cheers for acceptance of patch that prevents missing setuid return code checks from being root holes
<mdeslaur> bliss: where?
<jdstrand> oh, neat
<jdstrand> where is that?
<bliss> upstream kernel, let me find link
<sbeattie> cool!
<kees> bliss: is this segoon's work?
<bliss> yeah
<bliss> http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git;a=commit;h=72fa59970f8698023045ab0713d66f3f4f96945c
<kees> oh! excellent.
<mdeslaur> nice
<jdstrand> rockin'
<jdstrand> anything else?
<bliss> i guess stealth will have to find a new vuln class to root android kernels with
<kees> heh
<jdstrand> alrighty then
<jdstrand> thanks everyone!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology is the new Mootbot https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Aug 15 17:31:57 2011 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot . (v 0.1.4)
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-08-15-17.07.moin.txt
<kees> thanks jdstrand!
<bliss> thanks guys, keep up the good work :-)
<bliss> << ubuntu security cheerleader
<jdstrand> \o/
<jdstrand> :)
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
<AlanBell> jdstrand: bot and minutes work OK for you?
<Laney> right, dmb?
<smoser> Laney, I hope so.
<Laney> We have had several apologies on email
<Laney> but I hope that we can still meet and if necessary carry out any supplementary voting on list
<iamfuzz> Laney, +1 to that
<iamfuzz> :-)
<Laney> geser: persia
 * geser is here
<iamfuzz> 4am for persia so I'm doubting even he is awake at that hour
<Laney> geser: shall we?
<geser> Laney: you mean do the questioning and vote per mail?
<Laney> yes
<geser> sure, can you chair?
<Laney> yep
<Laney> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Aug 15 19:06:06 2011 UTC.  The chair is Laney. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Useful Commands: #topic #action #link #idea #voters #vote #chair #action #agreed #help #info #endmeeting.
<Laney> I think it's best to skip "Rename UCD/UUC to Ubuntu Development Members" until there are more people around to discuss it
<Laney> it arose from a conversation on -devel about UCD being confusing
<Laney> or we can bring it up on devel-permissions
<Laney> iamfuzz smoser cnd: you ready?
 * iamfuzz is ready
<cnd> I am
<smoser> I am ready
<geser> Laney: I agress to move it to the next meeting, a discussion about a more clear name could be done on devel-permissions and/or ubuntu-devel
<Laney> ok great
<Laney> alright, so we're going to do the 'interview' stage today and then defer voting to email
<iamfuzz> sounds good
<Laney> since 3 members are away/travelling and 1 has resigned
<Laney> (:()
<iamfuzz> :-( indeed
<Laney> [topic] MOTU Application for Brian Thomason
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: MOTU Application for Brian Thomason
<meetingology> TOPIC: MOTU Application for Brian Thomason
<Laney> hey iamfuzz :-) can you quickly introduce yourself?
<iamfuzz> Sure, I'm Brian Thomason, and I've been doing packaging work professionally for about 9 years
<iamfuzz> I started with Lindows/Linspire, and joined Canonical a little over 4 years ago
<iamfuzz> I've been doing work in Universe for about 2 years now
<iamfuzz> and currently maintain all packages in the Canonical partner repo, and all For Purchase apps in the software center, along with 5-10 packages in universe
<iamfuzz> and for the record, this is my second MOTU application
<Laney> :-)
<Laney> how do you think packaging for partner differs from packaging in the main archive?
<iamfuzz> quite differently in most cases
<Laney> do you stick to the standard Ubuntu release cycle?
<iamfuzz> no, not at all
<iamfuzz> we are at the whim of the ISV in most cases
<iamfuzz> we transition packages starting at Beta 1, and attempt to have them all migrated before RC1
<geser> iamfuzz: you mentioned in your wiki page that also some free software is in the partner archive. is there a reason why it's in the partner archive and not the main repository?
<iamfuzz> However, Partner is always open and doesn't have the concept of pockets, such as -updates or -security
<iamfuzz> geser, yes, the free software that resides there is Openbravo, Alfresco, and Jonas
<iamfuzz> These ship many binary jars
<iamfuzz> rather than using those provided in the archive or even compiling them from source at build time
<geser> ah, the usual java trouble
<iamfuzz> this has prevented their transition to universe
<iamfuzz> most vendors refuse to do so as they wish to certify one build, rather than, in their minds, an additonal "Ubuntu" build
<Laney> do you think it would be beneficial for these projects to work out the problems to get themselves into debian / ubuntu? or would it be more trouble than it's worth?
<iamfuzz> with potential moving pieces (the JAR deps)
<Laney> could they not go into multiverse?
 * Laney finds this quite interesting
<iamfuzz> Laney, in the case of Alfesco, probably more trouble than it's worth
<iamfuzz> 100+ jars at last count
<iamfuzz> though as the Java library in Ubuntu grows, it becomes more feasible
<iamfuzz> for Openbravo, yes, they likely would benefit and we speak with them about this every 6 months but have not as of yet gotten the go ahead
<iamfuzz> as for Multiverse, it likely could
<iamfuzz> but they see no benefit there as it isn't enabled by default on most server installs either
<geser> I guess part of the problem is that jars don't have proper versioning (API/ABI)
<iamfuzz> and they enjoy the lax rules of Partner
<iamfuzz> as well as a commercial relationship
<iamfuzz> correct
<Laney> indeed
<iamfuzz> as well as the fact that they patch many of them to their liking
<geser> what are the main differences between the partner repository and the main one? just the relaxed rules?
<iamfuzz> relaxed rules, no pockets, always open
<iamfuzz> and the only license criteria that need be met is a distribution agreement with Canonical
<iamfuzz> that being said, with the relaxed rules, we do our best to make the packages as presentable as possible
<Laney> I suppose for upstreams it gives them a guarantee hat their software will become available
<iamfuzz> but it isn't always easy with the binary blobs of goodness we receive :-)
<iamfuzz> correct, and the warm and fuzzies that they are a "Partner" of Canonical
<Laney> anyway, to Ubuntu Development. (my standard question) Have you worked with Debian at all? For example forwarding patches
<iamfuzz> yes, not a ton, but yes
<Laney> :-)
<iamfuzz> I worked with Debian to fix the gstreamer-plugins-bad package to not improperly collide with our packages
<iamfuzz> I've reported many bugs
<iamfuzz> and submitted a patch to lintian once
<iamfuzz> am in the process of working on a lintian profile that affects Partner packages
<Laney> ah, excellent
<Laney> that's a good development in lintian upstream
<iamfuzz> I've also worked fairly closely with their java maintainer as he assists with our building of them for partner
<Laney> finally from me, you mention problems with the release cycle's length as a weakness in Ubuntu
<Laney> what do yo uthink could be done about that?
<iamfuzz> I'm not sure there can be much done
<iamfuzz> I commented on that only because I came from a distribution that released ~every 2 years
<iamfuzz> which gave ample time for thorough bug testing and the like
<Laney> emphasise the LTS releases more over the others?
<iamfuzz> and more importantly in my role, it affects ISV package migrations
<iamfuzz> the IBMs of the world are slow to move
<iamfuzz> Yes, in that realm we do
<iamfuzz> if it's a "server" related package, we almost insist on their following the LTS cycle
<iamfuzz> which has proven helpful
<Laney> I'm sure you know well all of the possible upgrade paths that you have to support
<iamfuzz> but the desktop-oriented offerings obviously have to be transitioned each release
<Laney> geser: any qs?
<geser> no, just want to mention that I like to see that many testimonials on iamfuzz's application
<iamfuzz> indeed, i had much help along the way
<iamfuzz> thanks to all 4 of my mentors :-)
<Laney> yes, they are very strong
<Laney> good work :-)
<Laney> geser: shall we vote now or would you prefer all votes on email?
<geser> like you like, I send sent my +1 now or with mail
<Laney> let's vote now, to save some email traffic
<Laney> [vote] Brian Thomason to join MOTU
<meetingology> Please vote on: Brian Thomason to join MOTU
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<Laney> +q
<Laney> erm, what does that mean?
<Laney> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Laney
<iamfuzz> question?
<geser> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from geser
<Laney> means I can't hit the 1 correctly :P
<iamfuzz> ;-)
<Laney> [endvote]
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Brian Thomason to join MOTU
<meetingology> Votes for:2 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<Laney> thanks a lot iamfuzz, watch devel-permissions for more :>
<iamfuzz> thanks guys, I very much appreciate your taking the time for the interview despite lack of quorum
<Laney> yeah, sorry about that â¦
<iamfuzz> it happens
<iamfuzz> I seem to be a bad omen too
<iamfuzz> has happened 4 times to me :-)
<Laney> heh
<Laney> people seem to be travelling a lot currently
<Laney> ah well
<iamfuzz> that time of year
<Laney> smoser: here?
<smoser> here
<Laney> \o/
<Laney> [topic] Ubuntu Core Developer Application for Scott Moser
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Core Developer Application for Scott Moser
<meetingology> TOPIC: Ubuntu Core Developer Application for Scott Moser
<smoser> I'm Scott Moser, I've been contributing to Ubuntu development for the past 2 years.  For the majority of that time, I've been the responsible party for creating and releasing the official Ubuntu Cloud Images (UEC), which are ready-to-run images targetted towards running in cloud platforms.  I've had PPU upload rights for a few packages for about a year, and have had several sponsored uploads across main, universe and multiverse.
<Laney> care to give us a quick introduction to yourself?
<Laney> aha!
<smoser> my application is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScottMoser/DeveloperApplication
<Laney> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScottMoser/DeveloperApplication
<Laney> ...
<Laney> I notice that you're explicitly applying for server and MOTU as well. Any reason for that? (not that it's a problem :-)
<smoser> That was on advice of Daviey, but primarily the ubuntu-server-dev team is interested in boosting numbers to it.
<smoser> and its membership approval is delegated here.
<smoser> so 2 birds, one stone.
<Laney> fair.
<smoser> am I being waited on ? I just want to make sure I'm not holding anything up.  My introduction came before Laney asked for it above (just to make sure it was seen).
<geser> too much to read in too little time
<Laney> smoser: sorry, connection dropped
<Laney> It is my impression that Ubuntu's cloud offerings have been rather sucessful. Is this accurate? Have you been please with the way they ahve been received? :-)
<smoser> we have strong reason to believe that our images on EC2 are amoung the most popular to run.
<smoser> I would say that that is most definitely the largest success we've had.  The other thing to point to for success as Ubuntu as a "cloud os" is in Openstack usage.
<smoser> Ubuntu is OpenStacks' reference platform, and our cloud-images are expected to work there, and used by many.
<geser> do the Ubuntu package need many changes to also work in the cloud image properly?
<smoser> my largest head-butting with Ubuntu has been over grub.
<smoser> the images are interesting in that we include both grub2 and write/manage a /boot/grub/menu.lst
<Laney> how much of an intersection is there between server and cloud? Is there ever a conflict there or are they complementary?
<smoser> grub-pc is included so that they can work as a normal ubuntu installation, and we manage /boot/grub/menu.lst with grub-legacy-ec2 (which is read by the 'pv-grub' "bootloader" on eC2)
<smoser> i think there is a fairly large intersection between "server" and "cloud"
<smoser> both ubuntu cloud host and cloud guest really are just package set selections.
<smoser> and the packages that are improtant there rely heavily on functionality that is common to many ubuntu flavors
<smoser> from the image perspective, we try to ship something that can easily and rapidly be provisioned into something that does what the user wants.
<Laney> I guess outside of the 'infrastructure' not much needs modifying
<smoser> I dont think i follow that.
<smoser> what did you mean by 'infrastructure' ?
<Laney> I am using infrastructure to refer to the packages needed to manage your cloud host or guest
<smoser> well, largely i have ot say "i don't know" to much of that.
<smoser> we certainly hope that people find the Ubuntu packages that are available in the archive to "just work".
<smoser> but we give them a nice base, and they're able to use whatever they want to accomplish their task.
<Laney> geser: any q?
<smoser> ie, I'm actually not aware if 5% or 95% use the mysql that is packaged.  they *could* all install from a binary build.
<Laney> :-)
<geser> Laney: ready to vote
<Laney> ok
<Laney> [vote] Scott Moser to join core-dev, server-dev, MOTU
<meetingology> Please vote on: Scott Moser to join core-dev, server-dev, MOTU
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<geser> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from geser
<Laney> +1 // nice endorsements, and importently a nod to Debian in the application. Please continue to push for upstreaming of work wherever possible (Debian Cloud?)
<Laney> grr
<Laney> AlanBell: ^ make that work please â¥
<Laney> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Laney
<Laney> [endvote]
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Scott Moser to join core-dev, server-dev, MOTU
<meetingology> Votes for:2 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<Laney> smoser: we'll be in touch over email
<Laney> thanks for turning up :-D
<Laney> cnd: heya, you here?
<cnd> yep
<smoser> thanks.
<Laney> [topic] Ubuntu Core Developer Application: Chase Douglas
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Core Developer Application: Chase Douglas
<meetingology> TOPIC: Ubuntu Core Developer Application: Chase Douglas
<Laney> quick intro? :>
<cnd> sure
<cnd> I'm one of the developers of the uTouch multitouch and gesture stack in Ubuntu
<cnd> like much of the desktop-experience team at Canonical, we do a bunch of upstream development
<cnd> however, our team is a little unique
<cnd> we enjoy ubuntu development too :)
<cnd> so we end up maintaining our own packages
<cnd> so we do all kinds of development
 * Laney likes the sound of that
<Laney> did you write the packaging for your software?
<cnd> for most of it, yes
<cnd> our team did
<cnd> specifically, I have packaged utouch-qml, utouch-gesturetest, and I have maintained packaging for all our stuff
<cnd> I also have touched many packages throughout the stack
<cnd> I started in the kernel team before utouch
<cnd> so I have been involved there
<cnd> and I still write patches that go upstream and then trickle back into ubuntu
<Laney> I see you maintain a package in Debian. Do you think that works well?
<cnd> tbh, I don't know too much
<cnd> I wrote the package
<cnd> and I have stats that show many people use it
<Laney> you haven't had the pleasure of a bug report yet? :-)
<cnd> but after a few bug reports initially I haven't heard anything since
<Laney> ah
<cnd> so no news is good news I guess :)
<Laney> well, that's a good sign
<cnd> I also have worked with debian in other areas
<Laney> it's not causing you much trouble
<cnd> I helped merge changes into pm-utils
<cnd> and I have worked with the ubuntu and debian x teams
<Laney> is the utouch stuff going to go to debian?
<cnd> I'm the author of extensive X patches in ubuntu that we are hoping to get upstream into x.org
<Laney> has anyone expressed interest there?
<cnd> where it will be slurped into all the distros
<Laney> or any other distro, for that matter
<cnd> yes, we have interest from debian, and gentoo, and pretty much everyone :)
<cnd> right now we have a prototype multitouch XInput extension in our server
<cnd> which has been a proving ground of sorts
<cnd> and we hope to have it officially available from upstream by the time 12.04 LTS ships
<cnd> so we don't have a huge patch to maintain there
<Laney> that would be great
<cnd> it would also expand the reach of utouch since it's dependent on the patches
<cnd> which no one else really wants to ship in their distro
<cnd> and I don't blame them :)
<cnd> the stuff needs to get upstream
<Laney> I see one of your endorsers is someone you have mentored!
<cnd> yes
<Laney> that is a bit unusual - how did you find that experience?
<cnd> great!
<Laney> something you'd like to carry on if you are approved? :-)
<Laney> (perhaps by hanging out in #ubuntu-motu, yes yes yes?)
<cnd> certainly, it's one of th reasons I am coming here
<cnd> I find it hard to participate in things like patch pilot
<cnd> there are things one can do without upload rights
<cnd> but many more things can be done with them to move things along faster
<Laney> one of the goals of patch pilot was to /not/ require upload rights
<cnd> I'm not sure that's been a success then...
<cnd> it's true that it doesn't require it
<Laney> i'd be interested in working with ways to make the stints more productive if you don't think that has worked
<cnd> but I feel I don't accomplish much without it
<cnd> I like to take tasks and see them to completion
<cnd> I find that helps me make sure things are done
<cnd> the more things are handed off from one person to another, the less likely it will really reach the finish line
<Laney> I agree the nature of the work would have to be rather different (not direct sponsorship), but I'm sure we can find ways for people to be helpful even if they can't do the eventual sponsorship
<Laney> hmm......
<cnd> I suppose I shouldn't have been so negative when I said it's not been a success
<cnd> I feel I can do more
<cnd> and that's one reason I'm here
<Laney> no no I kind of foresaw this as something that might happen when we were devising the scheme
<cnd> I think the program is reasonable
<cnd> it just works better with upload rights
<Laney> I don't want non-uploaders to feel like they aren't helping
<micahg> there are 2k patches in Ubuntu that need a guiding hand
<cnd> I'm not sure I have any good ideas off the top of my head on how to fix that
<Laney> for example there is that ^ scheme that I forgot the name of
<Laney> operation cleansweep
<broder> operation cleansweep
<Laney> anyway, let's speak with dholbach about this another time
<cnd> sure
<Laney> geser: q?
<broder> it's probably worth pulling barry or poolie or someone else from the bzr team into the discussion, since that was the inspiration for the patch pilot stuff
<geser> no
<Laney> broder: indeed
<Laney> it'll be the patch pilot first anniversary at florida this year, perhaps we can review it then
<Laney> not that I know if I'll be there yet
<Laney> cnd: finally, there is a DMB seat going if you are interested. Regarding the recent thread(s), I apologise for our failings and hope we can work to improve the process :-)
<Laney> particularly, I'm concerned that you didn't feel able to apply before now and how we can fix that
<cnd> Laney, heh, I've been thinking very long and hard about that, tbh
<cnd> Laney, I was hoping it was less than a 2 year commitment
<cnd> I have ideas on how to make things better
<cnd> I'm caught because I'm not on the board
<cnd> and I don't want the board to feel like I'm usurping their role or anything
<Laney> well, you can get a mandate for your changes
<cnd> but I also am not sure I can personally commit to being on the board
<Laney> yeah. I understand.
<cnd> I'm taking a bit of a break just to reassess
<cnd> and I don't want to cause harm, even though none is ever intended
<Laney> things always look different from the other side of the fence, unfortunately
<cnd> yep
<cnd> I felt the conversation had some good effects, such as helping me understand what it's like for some board members
<Laney> personally I think that we have a perception problem, and the reality isn't all that bad
<cnd> I agree, I think some small tweaks could help
<Laney> indeed
<Laney> perhaps you can present your improvements to the board at an IRC meeting when they become formed?
<cnd> sure
<Laney> then take them more public after that
<Laney> to the vote machine!
<Laney> [vote] Chase Douglas to join ~ubuntu-core-dev
<meetingology> Please vote on: Chase Douglas to join ~ubuntu-core-dev
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<Laney> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Laney
<geser> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from geser
<Laney> strong testimonials, good previous work. rock & roll :-)
<Laney> thanks chase!
<Laney> [endvote]
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Chase Douglas to join ~ubuntu-core-dev
<meetingology> Votes for:2 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<cnd> thanks!
<Laney> will be in touch over email as well, sorry about the quorumness (that is one of our biggest problems imho)
<Laney> [endmeeting]
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology is the new Mootbot https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Aug 15 20:14:13 2011 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot . (v 0.1.4)
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-08-15-19.06.moin.txt
<cnd> yeah, it's hard over irc
<cnd> with a world wide board
<Laney> very
<micahg> I just wanted to point out for people following on IRC that core-dev has an implicit membership in MOTU
<Laney> The explicit membership is seen as more of a 'social' thing
<Laney> i.e. it makes you more part of the team's community
<tumbleweed> re operation cleansweep. We considered the idea of putting some of them on the sponsorship queue, but I'm not too sure how that would work
<micahg> Laney: you get the same badge on your LP page...what makes one more part of the community is participation in that community IMHO
<cnd> Laney, I forgot to ask one thing
<cnd> a simple addition of a package to a package set
<cnd> I can email the request if that's easier?
<micahg> tumbleweed: the pilots w/out upload rights could prepare those, that's what I was implying
<geser> cnd: is the package covered by an approved package set?
<tumbleweed> micahg: sounds like that would be best done in a separate queue?
<cnd> geser, what do you mean by that?
<cnd> the package is utouch-qml
<micahg> tumbleweed: well, there's an LP query for that I think
<cnd> it's in universe and it should be added to the utouch package set
<cnd> it's new as of a week or two ago
<tumbleweed> micahg: yeah, either people aren't picking them off, or we've already solved the problem
<geser> cnd: got the package set approved by a wildcard (like utouch-*) or an explicit package list?
<cnd> geser, I assume package list
<micahg> tumbleweed: crimsun has been picking them off :)
<cnd> if so, it should be wildcard utouch-*
<cnd> I didn't realize that was possible
<Laney> I don't think we need to be excessively bureaucratic if it was essentially all utouch packages
<cnd> I know I can't upload to it, and I have upload rights to the package set
<micahg> package sets can't have wildcards AFAIK
<Laney> not officially
<geser> cnd: there is not much documentation about how package sets can get requested. Add it to the agenda for the next meeeting and once approved it eases the maintainance (as long as the package meets the approved wildcard no meeting is needed to add it to the package set).
<micahg> approvals can have wildcards :)
<Laney> what is the package?
<cnd> Laney, utouch-qml
<cnd> so I need to add an agenda item to request that all utouch-* packages be approved for the utouch package set?
<Laney> IMHO we could infer that approval from the DMB's original decision
<cnd> I believe that's how it has happened in the past
<cnd> I can't remember exactly
<geser> cnd: yes, afaik there is no policy about how package sets are managed, so I prefer it to have a vote on it (but it can be a wildcard)
<Laney> added it
<cnd> but I remember asking to have a package added to a package set once before (they seem to line up in time with my personal applications)
<cnd> and someone just added it
<cnd> thanks Laney :)
<Laney> it was pretty explicitly created as a 'utouch package set'
<geser> Laney: just for the record: no objection from me
<Laney> :-)
<cnd> ok, back to my vacation day :)
<cnd> thanks all!
<Laney> enjoy
<AlanBell> Laney: yeah, will do, known bug
<AlanBell> Laney: seen the [voters] command
<Laney> no, what is that?
<Laney> AlanBell: aha
<Laney> that bug is even in the documentation, nice
<AlanBell> you can give it a list of authorised voters
<AlanBell> so #voters Laney geser
<AlanBell> would make it only listen to votes from the board
<Laney> hot
<AlanBell> and you can #chair someone else if you want to
<AlanBell> or a list of people for that matter
<highvoltage> cool!
 * ajmitch thinks having a list of approved voters for a meeting will be rather useful
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-08-16
<TiMiDo> hey to apply for a membership from ubuntu. where do i apply in the forum?
<highvoltage> TiMiDo: you don't apply on the forums
<highvoltage> TiMiDo: you create your application on your wiki page, and then add a link to it to a membership meeting agenda
<highvoltage> TiMiDo: This wiki page has some more information: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership
<highvoltage> (see the last section: Preparing your Application
<highvoltage> )
<henninge> dholbach: Hallo! Shouldn't there be a CC meeting happening here right now?
<dholbach> henninge, sorry about that - I was still in catch-up mode, as I got back from holidays yesterday - I'll see if I can get some others activated - if not, I'll make sure to update the wiki page with a new time
<henninge> dholbach: np,just wondering
<henninge> dholbach: I was hoping to see the "what is upstream" question resolve before I try for Membership again.
<dholbach> yes, I understand
<henninge> next CC meeting slot is right after the EMEA membership meeting ...
<henninge> dholbach: I hope you had a nice holiday, though ... ;-)
<dholbach> I did - thanks :)
<dholbach> I'll give you an update as soon as I hear back - I just pinged the whole lot (or rather whoever was on IRC)
<henninge> cool, thanks
<popey> ah, sorry.
 * henninge goes to lunch
<jamespage> o/
<utlemming> greetings
<Daviey> jamespage, you are an eager beaver
<jamespage> :-)
<Daviey> hallyn: I do believe the chair is all yours.
<hallyn> yup
<hallyn> \o
 * hallyn finds the agenda again
<hallyn> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Aug 16 15:59:30 2011 UTC.  The chair is hallyn. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Useful Commands: #topic #action #link #idea #voters #vote #chair #action #agreed #help #info #endmeeting.
<hallyn> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<meetingology> TOPIC: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<hallyn> sommer and j1mc to look at doc presentation (continued x 3)
<zul> heylo
<hallyn> what do we do about the docs? :)
<zul> docs what docs? :)
<hallyn> robbiew: ^ something was said about this last week somewhere, right?
<robbiew> kim0 is helping us there
<robbiew> reviewing what we have
<hallyn> ok, i'll mark that as an action to discuss next week?
<robbiew> I guess
 * Daviey takes the action of syncing with kim0 offline.
<hallyn> yay
<hallyn> #action Daviey to sync with kim0 offline regarding docs
<meetingology> ACTION: Daviey to sync with kim0 offline regarding docs
<hallyn> Daviey and adam_g to address Bug #791850
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 791850 in linux (Ubuntu Oneiric) "oneiric cluster compute (hvm) instances do not boot" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/791850
<Daviey> was it adam, or utlemming?
<hallyn> (and, related, smb and utlemming to look at Bug #791850 )
<hallyn> in the meeting logs i saw adam
<utlemming> there was a typo there....
<hallyn> ah
<utlemming> SMB has a test image with that fixed
<hallyn> noted.  so what's the status?
<hallyn> cool
<Daviey> looks like it is making progress!
<smb> I need to poke upstream a bit more there but I have a patch to revert, yes
<Daviey> yah
<hallyn> smb: do you think it warrants an action still?
<smb> No, I think we are on track
<hallyn> awesome, thanks
<hallyn> #topic Oneiric Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Oneiric Development
<meetingology> TOPIC: Oneiric Development
<Daviey> Welcome back everyone!
<Daviey> With most of the team sprinting last week, our incoming bug triage fell off the radar slightly.
<Daviey> We need to add some love to:
<Daviey> http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/triage-report.html
<Daviey> Release bugs:
<Daviey> http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html
<Daviey> If you know of a bug not being tracked on that page, please raise it now or shortly after the meeting.
<Daviey> We really need Feature Freeze Exceptions raised for every feature not yet landed.
<Daviey> If there is a feature you know of, not being tracked at the top of that page, please make it known.
<hallyn> #action all look over http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html
<meetingology> ACTION: all look over http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html
<Daviey> FWIW, the feature reaper might have to show it's head soon.
<hallyn> scythes look cool
<hallyn> <shrug>
<Daviey> Everyone knows what a 'feature' is, i guess>
<Daviey> ?
<smb> Anything we cannot claim a bug?
<Daviey> smb: couldn't put it better myself!
<utlemming> or anything we can't make sound like a bug?
<Daviey> anything else for development?
<Daviey> utlemming: Shhh (but yes)
<Daviey> But actually, feature bugs are helpful for tracking.
<hallyn> thanks, Daviey.  moving on then,
<hallyn> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<meetingology> TOPIC: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<hallyn> i think we're event'ed out, but linuxcon is going on right now and at least plumber's is coming up
<Daviey> Next Week - lynxman and co are sprinting.
<Daviey> doing orchestra and openstack love.
<toddc> +
<zul> linuxcon thisweek
<Daviey> So say hello to zul if you see him in Vancoover.
<hallyn> ok, moving on,
 * robbiew leaves today
<robbiew> for linxcon
<zul> yay
<zul> robbiew: bring your tuxedo
<hallyn> and kirkland is there?
<kirkland> hallyn: I am in Vancouver :-)
<zul> at kvm forum somewhere
<hallyn> excellent
<hallyn> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<meetingology> TOPIC: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<robbiew> zul: I got one ;)
<zul> robbiew: bringing it?
<zul> robbiew: or tux shirt?
<hallyn> hggdh: o/
<hallyn> drat, moving on then
<hallyn> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<meetingology> TOPIC: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<smb> Heya, there is sort of just two little things from my side...
<robbiew> zul: bringing
<smb> Based on a recent incident (or user confusion) -> bug #821466 I am wondering whether we may want to consider reverting the rename xvd to sd special patch from Maverick as well. On the other hand its only a matter of time till that dies now...
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 821466 in linux (Ubuntu) "Lucid kernel works on Rackspace cloud server, Maverick kernel does not" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/821466
<smb> Its gone in Natty and I would think EC2 can do without... smoser ?
<hggdh> \o (late, I know)
<smoser> wait, what ? smb ?
<hallyn> hggdh: (cool, we'll go back when smb is done)
<smoser> oh, i see. i would not say we should change the device naming in an SRU
<smb> smoser, Would you think too, that maverick EC2 would still work with the devices be xvda... and so on?
<nijaba> o/ (late too)
<smb> Ok, so we just keep it that way
<hallyn> does that mean mav kernel won't work on rackspace?
<smoser> smb, i'm not sure. without thinking more.
<hallyn> do you want to discuss out of band after thinking more?
<smb> Other thing. Currently trying to test latest oneiric dom0. PVM seems ok. HVM... well the loader seems ok after todays update, but something evil is going on with my bonding setup...
<smb> hallyn, Yeah, no hurry there
<hallyn> #action smoser and smb to further discuss xvd renaming (bug 821466)
<meetingology> ACTION: smoser and smb to further discuss xvd renaming (bug 821466)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 821466 in linux (Ubuntu) "Lucid kernel works on Rackspace cloud server, Maverick kernel does not" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/821466
<smoser> if i understand correctly, smb, you're suggesting that we should make maverick use the /dev/xvda based naming rather than the patch we had there to make the first device as /dev/sda
<smoser> is that correct?
<smb> smoser, correct (revert the patch doing that like in natty)
<smoser> because i'm really pretty sure that we should not make such a change in a stable release, especially one that is just going to go away soon enough
<smoser> lucid, though, is another story
<smoser> we will need that to upgrade smoothly to 12.04, so will have to think about it.
<smb> smoser, Ok, can live with that too. So I would document it in the bug and be done
<utlemming> also, I would be a little concerned about what happens when a user updates
<utlemming> if users aren't mounting via persistent names, than that sort of change could break them.
<hallyn> so is that decided (comment and make no change)?
<smb> smoser, Well we need to look closely which kernel yields what
<smb> ec2 kernels probably use sda while server and generic-pae would have xvd
<hallyn> let's move on guys.  smb you suspect your bonding setup is unreliable?
<smb> hallyn, I take that yes for Maverick anyways
<smb> hallyn, Not working at all seems a better word
<hallyn> but it was working with latest try?
<smb> It works under normal boot it seems
<hallyn> oh, i see
<smb> Maybe when xend takes over and creates pbond0... not sure yet
 * RoAkSoAx is back
<smb> It was working before I upgraded today, but that was the after-feature freeeze update...
<hallyn> smb: do you want any help from smoser/zul on that, or do you just need to dig in?
<smb> so all odds are open
<smb> I'll get back if I can find nothing
<smb> Just wanted to bring it up
<hallyn> cool, thanks smb
<smb> In case someone else had been experiencing the same
<hallyn> moving back,
<smb> ..
<hallyn> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<meetingology> TOPIC: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<hggdh> I have a few questions relating to beta
<hggdh> (1) are there any new tests we should run on the ISO tracker?
<hggdh> (2) what is the status of openstack & companions?
<Daviey> hggdh: we need more tests, but as it stands we've had no time to assist with that
<Daviey> I'm hoping jamespage might be able to assist with that soon.
<hallyn> Daviey: is there a list of new tests which need to be written?
<Daviey> hallyn: not as yet.
<Daviey> hggdh: the devtest lab currently has an orchestra provisioning server
<Daviey> Once ensemble lands it's required features, we are hoping to really bang out the test cases.
<jamespage> Daviey, hggdh: I did start a topic for planning openstack testing - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Oneiric/OpenStackTestPlan
<Daviey> jamespage: splendid!
<hggdh> perfect!
<jamespage> but its lacking detail as yet
<hggdh> what about cobbler?
<jamespage> hggdh: should we drop the current uec tests from the tracker (or did I miss that happening already?)?
<Daviey> jamespage: I believe that has been done
<hggdh> jamespage: as far as I can remember, they should have been dropped already
<jamespage> OK
<hggdh> I will check with jibel, though
<hggdh> and, from me. This is it. Please do help on the ISO tests -- review, manual run, whatever
<hggdh> ..
<hallyn> thanks, hggdh
<hallyn> moving on,
<hallyn> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (NCommander)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (NCommander)
<meetingology> TOPIC: Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (NCommander)
<hallyn> NCommander: around?
<Daviey> ogra_: can you stand in?
<ogra_> stand where ?
<Daviey> ogra_: just there ----->
 * ogra_ stands there --->
<Daviey> ogra_: Are you able to talk about ARM server, as NCommander isn't here?
<ogra_> not really, he didnt update me
<Daviey> ogra_: ok.. :'(, thanks anyway.
<ogra_> sorry :(
<hallyn> thanks - moving on
<hallyn> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
<meetingology> TOPIC: Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
<ogra_> i didnt know he wouldnt be around, else i would have colledted info
<Daviey> ogra_: understood, no worries.
<hallyn> any questions from community?
<Daviey> anyone looking for stuff to do?
<hallyn> lol
<Daviey> ranging from easy to really very complicated?
<Daviey> both essential :)
<hallyn> if so, go see Daviey, if he runs out of things he'll know who to go to next :)
<hggdh> Daviey: shoot. I can always jump out ;-)
<Daviey> hggdh: Super!  Grab me afterwards :)
 * hggdh wonders what is in store...
<hallyn> Daviey: did you have some specific htings you wanted to list now, or were you just waiting to see if anyone responds?
<Daviey> hallyn: both.
<Daviey> :)
<hallyn> noone's responding, but enumerate away!
<Daviey> hallyn: just note that grab me if people want to contribute to the awesomness that is Ubuntu Server.
<Daviey> With YOUR help, it will be a little bit more awesome.
<Daviey> EOM.
<hallyn> #action anyone (anyone!) who wants to make ubuntu server even more awesome, talk to Daviey
<meetingology> ACTION: anyone (anyone!) who wants to make ubuntu server even more awesome, talk to Daviey
<hallyn> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion
<meetingology> TOPIC: Open Discussion
<Daviey> anyone looking for stuff to do?
<zul> mememe
<Daviey> ranging from easy to really very complicated?
<Daviey> :)
<hallyn> hey should i make an action item for that?
<hallyn> zul: fix libvirt
<hallyn> and libcgroup
<zul> hallyn: be my guest :)
<hallyn> <zounds>
<Daviey> zul: please consider rewriting libvirt in Go.
<robbiew> heh
<hallyn> ok, moving on,
<hallyn> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announce next meeting date and time
<meetingology> TOPIC: Announce next meeting date and time
<hallyn> I believe that would be August 23, 16:00 UTC
<Daviey> top banana!
<hallyn> thanks all, have a great day.
<hallyn> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology is the new Mootbot https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Aug 16 16:34:46 2011 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot . (v 0.1.4)
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-08-16-15.59.moin.txt
 * Daviey feels all the more positive.
<apw> o/
<jjohansen> \o
<ogasawara> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Aug 16 17:00:00 2011 UTC.  The chair is ogasawara. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Useful Commands: #topic #action #link #idea #voters #vote #chair #action #agreed #help #info #endmeeting.
<smb> \o
<ppisati> o/
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
<ogasawara> # Meeting Etiquette
<ogasawara> #
<ogasawara> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<ogasawara> #       'o/' indicates you have something you'd like to add (wait until you are recognized)
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<meetingology> TOPIC: ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> Generic kernel arm: nothing interesting, besides lp709245 ("ARM SMP scheduler performance bug") that is becoming a show stopper.
 * Daviey perks up.
<ppisati> Oneiric/ti-omap4: a new BSP/kernel update (1202.6) is in the pipe.
<ppisati> ..
<ppisati> Oneiric/tegra: nothing new to report.
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (ogasawara)
<meetingology> TOPIC: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> === Release Metrics ===
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<ogasawara> ==== oneiric nominated bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 31 linux kernel bugs (up 11)
<ogasawara> ==== Ubuntu ubuntu-11.10-beta-1 bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 2 linux kernel bugs (up 2)
<ogasawara> ==== <series>-updates bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 0 oneiric linux kernel bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 18 natty linux kernel bugs (down 1)
<ogasawara>  * 3 maverick linux kernel bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 7 lucid linux kernel bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 0 hardy linux kernel bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara> === Incoming Bugs ===
<ogasawara>  * 116 oneiric bugs (up 27)
<ogasawara>  * 1511 natty bugs (up 19)
<ogasawara>  * 1091 maverick bugs (up 2)
<ogasawara>  * 954 lucid bugs (up 13)
<ogasawara>  * 33 hardy bugs (up 2)
<ogasawara> === Regressions ===
<ogasawara> ==== regression-update bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 0 oneiric bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 13 natty bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 40 maverick bugs (down 1)
<ogasawara>  * 78 lucid bugs (up 3)
<ogasawara>  * 0 hardy bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara> ==== regression-release bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 3 oneiric bugs (up 2)
<ogasawara>  * 439 natty bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 238 maverick bugs (down 2)
<ogasawara>  * 215 lucid bugs (up 1)
<ogasawara>  * 2 hardy bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara> ==== regression-proposed bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 1 oneiric bugs (up 1)
<ogasawara>  * 3 natty bugs (up 1)
<ogasawara>  * 1 maverick bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 1 lucid bugs (up 1)
<ogasawara>  * 0 hardy bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara> ..
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] Beta-1 Work Items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Beta-1 Work Items
<meetingology> TOPIC: Beta-1 Work Items
<ogasawara> || apw       || other-kernel-o-gcc-build-dependency || 1 work item ||
<ogasawara> ||           || other-kernel-o-bug-handling         || 2 work items||
<ogasawara> ||           || other-kernel-o-version-and-flavours || 2 work items||
<ogasawara> ||           || other-kernel-o-ubuntu-delta-review  || 1 work item ||
<ogasawara> ||           || desktop-o-xorg-stakeholders-request || 1 work item ||
<ogasawara> ||           || desktop-o-xorg-tools-and-processes  || 4 work items||
<ogasawara> || lag       || other-kernel-o-ubuntu-delta-review  || 1 work item ||
<ogasawara> || ogasawara || other-kernel-o-version-and-flavours || 2 work items||
<ogasawara> || rsalveti  || other-kernel-o-ubuntu-delta-review  || 1 work item ||
<ogasawara> || sarvatt   || desktop-o-xorg-tools-and-processes  || 1 work item ||
<ogasawara> || sconklin  || desktop-o-xorg-stakeholders-request || 1 work item ||
<ogasawara> || smb       || other-kernel-o-version-and-flavours || 1 work item ||
<ogasawara> || tjaalton  || other-kernel-o-ubuntu-delta-review  || 1 work item ||
<ogasawara> If you're listed in the table above, please review your work items.
<ogasawara> ..
<apw> ack ..
<sconklin> ack
<sconklin> ..
<smb> ack
<smb> ..
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] Status: General Oneiric (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: General Oneiric (ogasawara)
<meetingology> TOPIC: Status: General Oneiric (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> Last week we uploaded the 3.0.0-8.11 Ubuntu kernel.  See [LINK] https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/3.0.0-8.11 for the full changelog.  I'd like to remind everone that we're approximately 1 week away from Beta Freeze.  As such, I intend to upload our Beta-1 kernel by the end of this week.  ie. get your patches sent to the mailing list asap if you want them to hit the Beta-1 release.
<ogasawara> Some important dates to keep in mind are as follows:
<ogasawara>  * Aug 25 - Beta Freeze (~1 week)
<ogasawara>  * Sept 1 - Beta 1 (~2 weeks)
<ogasawara>  * Sept 15 - Kernel Freeze (~4 weeks)
<ogasawara>  * Sept 22 - Beta 2 (~5 weeks)
<ogasawara> We'll continue pull in bug fixes and follow upstream stable v3.0.x as we move towards release.  I'd also like to note that I've opened the P-series git repo and recently rebased it to v3.1-rc2.  It's available in my personal repo on zinc - git://kernel.ubuntu.com/ogasawara/ubuntu-p.git .  I'll make an official announcement to the mailing list shortly.
<ogasawara> ..
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's (apw)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's (apw)
<meetingology> TOPIC: Status: CVE's (apw)
<apw> == 2011-08-16 (weekly) ==
<apw> === CVE Metrics ===
<apw> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/CVE-linux.txt
<apw> Currently open CVEs for each supported branch:
<apw> || Package                                  || Open ||
<apw> ||                                          ||      ||
<apw> || linux Hardy                              ||    7 ||
<apw> || linux Lucid                              ||    3 ||
<apw> || linux Maverick                           ||    3 ||
<apw> || linux Natty                              ||    3 ||
<apw> || linux Oneiric                            ||    2 ||
<apw> || linux-ec2 Lucid                          ||    3 ||
<apw> || linux-fsl-imx51 Lucid                    ||    3 ||
<apw> || linux-mvl-dove Lucid                     ||    3 ||
<apw> || linux-mvl-dove Maverick                  ||    3 ||
<apw> || linux-ti-omap4 Maverick                  ||    3 ||
<apw> || linux-ti-omap4 Natty                     ||    3 ||
<apw> || linux-ti-omap4 Oneiric                   ||    2 ||
<apw> || linux-lts-backport-maverick Lucid        ||    3 ||
<apw> || linux-lts-backport-natty Lucid           ||    3 ||
<apw> We have just found a regression introduced by one of the fixes for CVE-2011-1020.  Investigation ongoing.
<apw> ..
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] Status: Stable Kernel Team (sconklin)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable Kernel Team (sconklin)
<meetingology> TOPIC: Status: Stable Kernel Team (sconklin)
<sconklin> ||== Status of kernels ==
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> || This is kernel verification week. All kernels except Natty were ready for verification this
<sconklin> || week, but a regression has been discovered in all kernels except Natty due to application of
<sconklin> || a CVE patch. All kernels will be respun and further status will be announced when we have
<sconklin> || estimated completion times for kernel prep.
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> || The CVE tracking bug for the discovered regressionis here:
<sconklin> || https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/813026/
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> || Kernel status for each series is as follows:
<sconklin> ||
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 813026 in linux (Ubuntu Hardy) "CVE-2011-1020" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<sconklin> ||=== Hardy ===
<sconklin> || * [[https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/8239120|Hardy Tracking Bug]]
<sconklin> || * Is being held for a CVE regression (was ready for copying to -updates)
<sconklin> ||
<ubottu> Error: ubuntu bug 8239120 not found
<sconklin> ||=== Lucid ===
<sconklin> || * [[https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/824148|Lucid Tracking Bug]]
<sconklin> || * Is being held for a CVE regression (was in verification)
<sconklin> ||
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 824148 in linux (Ubuntu) "[Regression] linux: 2.6.32-34.73 -proposed tracker" [Medium,In progress]
<sconklin> ||=== Maverick ===
<sconklin> || * [[https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/823306|Maverick Tracking Bug]]
<sconklin> || * Is being held for a CVE regression (was in verification)
<sconklin> ||
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 823306 in linux (Ubuntu) "[Regression] linux: 2.6.35-30.57 -proposed tracker" [Medium,In progress]
<sconklin> ||=== Natty ===
<sconklin> || * [[https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/818175|Natty Tracking Bug]]
<sconklin> || * Is being held for an [[https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/814325|Intel graphics regression ]]
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 818175 in linux (Ubuntu Natty) "linux: 2.6.38-11.48 -proposed tracker" [Medium,In progress]
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 814325 in linux (Ubuntu Oneiric) "fuzzy and corrupted display with update in natty-proposed" [High,Incomplete]
<sconklin> ||   This regression also exists in upstream kernels, and the hardware enablement team is
<sconklin> ||   invesitgating this and working with upstream.
<sconklin> ..
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Natty/Maverick/Lucid/Hardy (sconklin)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Security & bugfix kernels - Natty/Maverick/Lucid/Hardy (sconklin)
<meetingology> TOPIC: Security & bugfix kernels - Natty/Maverick/Lucid/Hardy (sconklin)
<ogasawara> (seems like it was covered above?)
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> || Current Kernel versions are available here: http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/versions.html
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> ..
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<meetingology> TOPIC: Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<ogasawara> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology is the new Mootbot https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Aug 16 17:08:23 2011 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot . (v 0.1.4)
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-08-16-17.00.moin.txt
<sconklin> thanks Leann!
<kamal> thanks ogasawara
<apw> cool
<ogasawara> sconklin: you want me to combine your above two agenda items?
<ogasawara> damn, missed him
<smb> kthxbye :)
<AlanBell> o/ czajkowski
<brobostigon> :)
<AlanBell> do we know who is chairing tonight? I wanted to do a quick runthrough of the awesomeness that is the #voters command
<brobostigon> #voters command?
<popey> AlanBell: is it just #voters followed by the list of people allowed to vote?
<AlanBell> yes
<itnet7> AlanBell: still would be cool to create a #passthebaton command
<AlanBell> itnet7:  that would be the #chair command
<itnet7> Oh, It does that now?
<czajkowski> popey: can you chair my netwok seems to be cutting out with skynet
<itnet7> mid meeting?
<AlanBell> I can make #passthebaton an alias if you like :)
<popey> czajkowski: yes
<czajkowski> thanks
<AlanBell> itnet7: yup
<czajkowski> skynet is being arsey
<itnet7> No, but it's good to know that that would do it!
<AlanBell> I didn't get round to doing quorum stuff in the voting system
<AlanBell> or casting votes
<AlanBell> but patches welcome :)
<itnet7> :-)
<AlanBell> #chair foo bar will add foo and bar to the list of people it listens to for #topic and #endmeeting and #vote commands
<itnet7> Sweet
<brobostigon> meep
<popey> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Aug 16 20:00:17 2011 UTC.  The chair is popey. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Useful Commands: #topic #action #link #idea #voters #vote #chair #action #agreed #help #info #endmeeting.
<popey> ping czajkowski itnet7 huats leogg paultag
<popey> Welcome to the LoCo Council Meeting, our agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncilAgenda
<leogg> hello :)
<AlanBell> o/
<czajkowski> Aloha
<scott_ev> howdie
<toddc> hello
<itnet7> Hey there!
<Dazed_75> Hiya
<popey> paultag explained he may not be around and has already given us his votes via email. So when the time comes we'll be okay there.
<popey> huats: you about?
<triunity> Mornin
<bj0> alo
<fuzzyvader> hey
<Yorokobi> Good afternoon, everyone.
<scott_ev> mhelmke ping
<czajkowski> huats: did say he would be here
<popey> give him just a minute or two
<czajkowski> yup
<jtatum> \o
<huats> I am here
<czajkowski> :)
<popey> \o/
<huats> sorry for the late arrival
<huats> :)
<popey> np
<popey> right, we'll begin then.
<popey> #topic Ubuntu UK LoCo re-approval.
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu UK LoCo re-approval.
<meetingology> TOPIC: Ubuntu UK LoCo re-approval.
<popey> AlanBell: you about? ;)
<AlanBell> I am, good evening all
<popey> Now, to be clear, myself and czajkowski wont take part in the vote on UK because we're both in the team
<AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ReApprovalApplication2011
<popey> but huats itnet7 and paultag will vote
<popey> is anyone here to support the UK team re-approval application?
<AlanBell> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<danfish> o/
<StevenR> o/
<reidrac> o/
<popey> itnet7 / huats do you have any questions or comments for AlanBell ?
<bigcalm_lappy486> Hi :)
<bigcalm_lappy486> o/
<itnet7> popey: thinking... The Application really spells out a lot
<popey> yeah, have some time to read :D
<popey> I'll ask a question then âº
<itnet7> AlanBell: What would you say is the teams biggest challenge?
<christel> o/
<AlanBell> well there are a number of challenges, we have a lot of awesome individuals and we need to do more as a team to bring more people in
<leogg> AlanBell, what do you do to get people involved in the team?
<AlanBell> I know there are *loads* of UK people in #ubuntu and the english language forums who are not really involved in the loco activities as such
<AlanBell> leogg: we have a lovely friendly IRC channel where we provide support and organise things, we announce events to our mailing list, website and loco directory page
<huats> AlanBell, I am REALLY impressed by the vitality of your LoCo : Ubuntu business is terrific, I am a regular listener of the podcast...So congrats for your great work !
<AlanBell> we organise real world events like geeknics and conferences
<itnet7> Ditto
<AlanBell> yeah, the Ubuntu in Business event was buzzing, we should do another one of them
<leogg> AlanBell, the geeknics and oggcamp are really cool
<AlanBell> quite a bit of work in the planning though
<AlanBell> oggcamp was such fun :)
<itnet7> Awesome work, I have no other questions
<leogg> AlanBell, team reports? do you have any? I can't find them on the application
<huats> AlanBell, honnestly Ubuntu Business is something that many LoCo should consider, "mine" (ubuntu-fr) being one of them :)
<AlanBell> we do have team reports, we used them when writing the application, one sec . . .
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/TeamReports/
<czajkowski> Is there plans to run more Ubuntu in Business?
<leogg> popey, thanks
<huats> AlanBell, do you have any interactions with locos around ?
<AlanBell> czajkowski: just an aspiration at the moment
<AlanBell> huats: other loco teams you mean?
<itnet7> [LINK]https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/TeamReports
<itnet7> lol
<huats> yep
<itnet7> my bad
<popey> the wiki is broken, it doesn't show ones after april, but they are there
<popey> oh, it does, just in a dumb order
<AlanBell> huats: we have members from a number of countries, and several other LoCo teams are using some of our meeting innovations (agenda formats and bots)
<leogg> I must say I'm a big fan of uupc, based on that alone I'll give you +1 :)
<popey> lol
<AlanBell> uupc is teh awesome
<czajkowski> hehe
<brobostigon> :)
<czajkowski> I've just one question, how do you plan to reach out to get more people involved in your team, and get more of the canonical folks who are based in the UK involved?
<AlanBell> huats: there is a list at the end of our reapproval application of some things we do for other locos
<huats> AlanBell, I was not meaing things you are doing for other teams, but things you are doing with other teams
<huats> (like joint meetings)
<huats> (read meaning not meaing)
<AlanBell> czajkowski: I would indeed love to get more canonical folk involved, we get together at the release parties, but doing more than that would be great
<AlanBell> I did do some fire breathing with aqarius, that must count for something
<scott_ev> haha
<bigcalm> LOL
<AlanBell> huats: hmm, interesting, we are a bit of an island in that sense and the litteral sense
<popey> AlanBell: it seems there has been quite a flurry of activity in the last few months, possibly ahead of this meeting. How do you keep that momentum up?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Evening - sorry I'm late.
<AlanBell> hi TheOpenSourcerer
<huats> AlanBell, I know that would be the interesting thing :)
<AlanBell> popey: I want to speed it up faster
<popey> How?
<AlanBell> more events, working more with the people who do stuff in other areas of the country like the Manchester stuff
<popey> ok
<AlanBell> I want to find a way in to the universities, the computing societies I tried so far were unresponsive
<popey> czajkowski / leogg / huats / itnet7 any more questions?
<AlanBell> links with hackspaces etc
<czajkowski> nope I'm good thanks.
<AlanBell> I went to the london hackspace last month to see what they are up to
<leogg> I'm ready to vote
 * daubershome is late... sorry"
<itnet7> leogg: ditto
<popey> #voters leogg huats itnet7
<meetingology> Current voters: huats itnet7 leogg
<popey> ok
<popey> here goes.
<leogg> +1
<popey> haha
<popey> not so fast :D
<leogg> popey, come onnnnnnn
<leogg> :D
<popey> #vote on re-approval of Ubuntu UK loco
<meetingology> Please vote on: on re-approval of Ubuntu UK loco
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<itnet7> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from itnet7
<leogg> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from leogg
<huats> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from huats
<popey> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: on re-approval of Ubuntu UK loco
<meetingology> Votes for:3 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<AlanBell> \o/
<popey> Plus one more from paultag
<bigcalm> \o/
<brobostigon> :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> woot!
<jledbetter> Congratulations AlanBell :)
<itnet7> Sweet!! Congrats
<popey> Great work AlanBell
 * christel claps
<popey> keep it up
<jtatum> :)
<leogg> congrats guys! awesome work!
<czajkowski> AlanBell: congrats
<christel> well done tinkerbell! <3
<scott_ev> w00t
<bigcalm> Nice work AlanBell :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> That didn't take long. Only grabbed the last 5 mins. Did I miss much?
<bigcalm> And everybody else who continue to make the UK Team awesome :)
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: you missed the bit where we handed out free money
<popey> sorry
<TheOpenSourcerer> Blast.
<popey> Right, moving on
<TheOpenSourcerer> Never mind - it would have slipped through my fat fingers anyway ;-)
<popey> #topic Ubuntu California Re-Approval
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu California Re-Approval
<meetingology> TOPIC: Ubuntu California Re-Approval
<popey> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/ApprovalApplication2011
<popey> bah
<popey> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/ApprovalApplication2011
<popey> stupid bot
<popey> pleia2: you about?
<pleia2> hi :)
<popey> hullo!
<DarkwingDuck> o/
<czajkowski> Aloha folks
<popey> Anyone here to support Ubuntu Californian LoCo reapproval?
<DarkwingDuck> \o/
<jtatum> o/
<pleia2> o/
<philipballew> o/
<DarkwingDuck> I'll be bouncing a bit.. playing Dady Day Care.
<DarkwingDuck> *Daddy
<popey> pleia2: I am enjoying seeing the work you're doing installing Ubuntu for local community projects. Hows that going?
<popey> are others involved?
<pleia2> popey: very well, just had a partimus installfest where we has several team members come out
<czajkowski> DarkwingDuck: pleia2 care to tell us how ye get things done in your team ?
<pleia2> grantbow has been involved for years, we had a woman from our ubuntu hours and installfests come out too
<pleia2> we have people all over the state taking charge of events in their area and plan them, we swap tips about venues and things
<pleia2> so we've got ubuntu hours all over the place, the bay area and southern california are distinct regions that often have events
<pleia2> so for us it's really about individuals in their regions taking charge of events
<itnet7> It seems to be working out really well
<popey> I'd be interested in how your 'hours' work out
<popey> many turn up?
<pleia2> we've had everywhere from 1 to over 20
<huats> to add to popey : how do you promote them ?
<pleia2> I'd say typically for most it's about 5-10 people
<DarkwingDuck> LUGs, Word of mouth, etc.
<popey> and how regular are they?
<leogg> pleia2, California is pretty big, how do you manage to cover all of the state? Or does most things happen on the bigger cities/areas?
<pleia2> we announce them on our mailing list, forums, twitter, identica, facebook
<popey> in the same place all the time?
<DarkwingDuck> Try to
<pleia2> and then locally some ubuntu hours advertise to LUGs (I advertise the Ubuntu Hours we couple with Debian dinners to the local lists for SF Ubuntu Hours)
<czajkowski> pleia2: that's a lot of places, I know other teams complain about posting to multiple places, but do you think it's benefical ?
<pleia2> leogg: we have active members all over the state, so individuals just create events where they are (our list of ubuntu hour locations is at the end of our app, it's not just the major cities)
<czajkowski> DarkwingDuck: can you tell us how things are in the team, in the past it was a bit hairy, but I'm glad to see it's settled down, how is the team doing now ?
<popey> wow
<popey> thats an impressive set of Hours
<pleia2> popey: some are every other week, the ones in the bay area tend to be monthly (mostly because there are millions of tech events in the bay area, more than one per month would be further saturation :))
<leogg> pleia2, nice! thank you :)
<popey> Yeah, I can imagine!
<pleia2> czajkowski: the core team handles announcing things centrally to all the resources, it's not so bad, then individuals handle announcements locally
<czajkowski> ok
<czajkowski> thanks
<pleia2> we use posterous to post to twitter, identica and facebook all at once, then create a loco directory entry and copy that into mailing list and forums posts
<DarkwingDuck> Things in the team are going very well. We've had our... differences of opinions at times but, we have managed to sit down, take a few breaths and explain the logic behind things. People tend to respond to that.
<popey> What about the financial side of things, do you pay for venues for hours?
<DarkwingDuck> In San Diego, no, we have not had to as of yet.
<DarkwingDuck> Well, San Diego area.
<popey> you use starbucks and similar?
<DarkwingDuck> Yes
<czajkowski> DarkwingDuck: / pleia2 where do you see the team going/progressing in the next 2 years?
<pleia2> there are a lot of independent coffee shops in california :)
<popey> hah
<popey> what time of day and day of week is most popular for Hours?
<DarkwingDuck> I would like to expand the outreach to the massive amount of Unis here in California.
<pleia2> in the bay area whenever we need to pay for a venue we team up with a LUG who handles costs, or a non-profit that can get us in for free as long as we promote them (again, here that's often partimus - upcoming solano stroll is paid for by berkeley lug under the partimus non-profit banner)
<pleia2> popey: roseville (near the state capital) had a popular lunchtime ubuntu hour, but most are in the evening, 6-8PMish
<popey> thanks
<popey> I have no more questions
<czajkowski> same here
<DarkwingDuck> We do it (normally) on saturday mid day
<itnet7> everything looks good to me
<pleia2> czajkowski: I think just staying on track and keeping all communication lines open is what is most vital for our team, we've been growing lately and it's good
<pleia2> so make sure we stay on track and take opportunities and volunteers as they come :) we're in a good position for that now
<czajkowski> great stuff
<leogg> no more questions from me
<czajkowski> looks good to me
<huats> looks very good to me too
<leogg> yep, very nice job and great app
<popey> ok
<popey> #vote on Ubuntu California Team Re-Approval
<meetingology> Please vote on: on Ubuntu California Team Re-Approval
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<itnet7> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from itnet7
<leogg> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from leogg
<popey> +1
<czajkowski> +1
<huats> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from huats
<AlanBell> um popey #voters
<popey> yeah
<popey> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: on Ubuntu California Team Re-Approval
<meetingology> Votes for:3 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<popey> hang on!
<czajkowski> AlanBell: your voting bot is confusing :)
<popey> it's +5
<popey> plus paultag gave +1 via mailing list
<popey> sorry, I screwed the #voters
<czajkowski> +6 :)
<popey> so basically, you're done :D
<pleia2> thanks everyone :)
<jtatum> Awesome!
<popey> congratulations!
<DarkwingDuck> Thank you
<pleia2> see you in 2 years!
<popey> haha
<AlanBell> yay pleia2 and california
<itnet7> Very good job, Go Cali!!
<leogg> keep up the good work cali!
<DarkwingDuck> See some of ya in Orlando.
<AlanBell> czajkowski: user error
<AndroUser> is it all over I just managed to join the channel
<itnet7> Definitely DarkwingDuck !
<DarkwingDuck> assuming my application gets approved (It should)
<popey> #voters popey czajkowski leogg huats itnet7
<meetingology> Current voters: czajkowski huats itnet7 leogg popey
<popey> right!
<popey> keeping to time nicely
<popey> #topic Ubuntu Arizona Reapproval
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Arizona Reapproval
<meetingology> TOPIC: Ubuntu Arizona Reapproval
<leogg> :D
<popey> toddc: you about? âº
<toddc> Toddc here to represent azloco arizona team woot!
<Dazed_75> o/
<popey> Anyone else here for Arizona?
<fuzzyvader> o/
<scott_ev> The Hottest LoCo on Earth - The AZ LoCo - w00t w00t!!!
<triunity> Go Todd!
<Dazed_75> yes
<bj0> o\
<triunity> 1+
<Yorokobi> o/
<hutchnate> o/
<czajkowski> hey folks
<scott_ev> hiya
<bj0> howdy
<Dazed_75> greets
<czajkowski> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/ArizonaTeam/ApprovalApplicationrenewal
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArizonaTeam/ApprovalApplicationrenewal
<popey> :D
<popey> toddc: tell us about your install fests..
<stuart> so did the UK soon ???
<stuart> win
<popey> stuart: yeah
<popey> see #ubuntu-uk
<toddc> it is a combined event wit attendence at 15+
<czajkowski> toddc: why on the Kubuntu wiki and not on the main wiki, curious? All in Blue :)
<toddc> our original application was in kbuntu
<Dazed_75> so he copied and worked it there.  Does it matter for this?
<popey> no
<czajkowski> nope
<czajkowski> I was just curious :)
<Dazed_75> I was too :)
<huats> I like the testimonial idea
<itnet7> me too
<scott_ev> Our install fests are handled two ways.  we have installfests thast we do alone - one per release of ubuntu, and one a month that we do in conjunction with the Phoenix Linux users Group once a month
<toddc> np since this is my first I used it as a template
<toddc> we laso have a monly server installfest also
<Dazed_75> two/month with PLUG
<scott_ev> oops
<Dazed_75> I also do 2/year with SLUG and 2 others for retirement parks
<czajkowski> I see ye've only started to use the LD in the last 2 months, http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-arizona/events/history
<toddc> and several out of the local area Tucson
<itnet7> Dazed_75: How many newcomers show up out of curiousity?
<Dazed_75> itnet7: varies a lot from about 2 to 20
<toddc> we are continuing to add events and are currently add one in prescoot az
<scott_ev> Prescott
<itnet7> Nice!
<Dazed_75> Most installfests are a mix of installs, assists, and fixes or discussions.  Depends on user needs
<leogg> I like the fact that you collaborate with other LUGs in the area
<bj0> and sometimes random projects
<popey> I agree leogg
<toddc> we do a lot of that it helps everyone
<czajkowski> toddc: how do you share out thing getting done ?? like getting in this application and getting events organised?
<popey> toddc: your irc meetings seem to mostly consist of news dumps. Do the team find that valuable?
<toddc> we  have a small group that is increasing slowly that gets the core things done
<Dazed_75> Typically, we decide such things in the Sunday IRC or at installfest meetings
<Yorokobi> popey, I find the news dumps valuable. fwiw
<popey> it seems more like a newsletter than a meeting as such?
<isz_id> as do I.
<leogg> toddc, I don't see much activity on the forums or mailing lists... how do you communicate with each other on the team?
<toddc> yes since most of our things are events
<Dazed_75> We are considering fewer IRC meetings and trying for higher attendance bersus people reading the notes later
<toddc> we use irc and our big blue button server for most communication
<bj0> there is a lot more IRC communication than on the mailing list
<Dazed_75> We are also considering how to do some face to face with everyone so distant
<Dazed_75> The Valley is like 100 miles across
<czajkowski> toddc: I ask as the team is currently unapproved, due to the team expring as no application was submitted
<toddc> Former Team leaders said the it was handled or that they would guide us and did not followed thru
<popey> That's unfortunate.
<toddc> I took over 9 months ago
<Dazed_75> Aye!
<leogg> toddc, how many people do you have regularly on your IRC channel?
<czajkowski> toddc: ok, but you really should have come to us, it's taken a long time
<toddc> with a huge learning curve
<scott_ev> it's been a real hinderance as we are somewhet flying blind here
<toddc> I was more inthe the installfests but learning has been fun but slow
<itnet7> Anytime you need some help or ideas you can ping anyone of us
<Dazed_75> What kind of help could we get from the council?  I don't think we know
<toddc> thanks will keep that in mind
<popey> absolutely, we're here to help
<scott_ev> I'm somewhat to blame as i took over after johnc4510 and didn't immediatly find out what we needed to do to stay curent
<popey> lets talk about what the loco council does offline perhaps?
<itnet7> Sure
<toddc> ok thanks
<popey> czajkowski / itnet7 / huats / leogg  do you have any other questions for the AZ team?
<scott_ev> being the team's one Ubuntu member I should have known better
<czajkowski> hmm no
<Dazed_75> Is there a page that might describe what ways the council can help with ideas and such?
<itnet7> toddc: I have joined your channel feel free to ping me anytime
<popey> No worries scott_ev :D
<leogg> no, I'm good
<popey> ok, lets go then.
<toddc> inet7 thanks will do
<popey> #vote on Ubuntu Arizona Re-Approval
<meetingology> Please vote on: on Ubuntu Arizona Re-Approval
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<popey> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from popey
<itnet7> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from itnet7
<popey> We have a +1 from paultag also
<Dazed_75> Sory, while I've been involved with the loco activities, I only recently joined it
<czajkowski> +0
<leogg> +0
 * popey tickles huats 
<huats> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from huats
<popey> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: on Ubuntu Arizona Re-Approval
<meetingology> Votes for:3 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<popey> I make that 4
<huats> sorry I was backlogging
<scott_ev> nice, thanks you all
<popey> So congratulations!
<scott_ev> w00t
<bj0> yey
<scott_ev> we live again
<Dazed_75> WOOT
<hutchnate> w00t
<triunity> Sweet!!! Thank you!!!!
<fuzzyvader> wahoo!
<pleia2> congrats AZ, I'll be in Phoenix over labor day weekend visiting family :)
<itnet7> Congrats
<scott_ev> nice pleia
<bj0> you picked the hottest month for it pleia2 :)
<scott_ev> where exactly?
<popey> keep up the great work, and do get in touch if we can help at all
<pleia2> bj0: haha, I also visited philly during a heat wave this year, it's how I roll
<toddc> thank you and stop by and watch us get bigger
<Dazed_75> Thanks, I am sure we will
<popey> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology is the new Mootbot https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Aug 16 20:58:14 2011 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot . (v 0.1.4)
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-08-16-20.00.moin.txt
<Yorokobi> Yay! Now, back to Splunk's conference ... :o
<bj0> cool, thanks all
<czajkowski> popey: thanks for chairing
<itnet7> thanks popey !
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-08-17
<mvo> hello
<jhunt> o/
 * slangasek waves
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Aug 17 15:02:03 2011 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Useful Commands: #topic #action #link #idea #voters #vote #chair #action #agreed #help #info #endmeeting.
<slangasek> [TOPIC] lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: lightning round
<meetingology> TOPIC: lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e cjwatson barry doko stgraber jhunt mvo ev bdmurray slangasek)
<slangasek> doko barry mvo cjwatson bdmurray jhunt stgraber ev slangasek
<slangasek> doko_: what's new in the world of lightning?
<doko_> ouch, barry, can you go first?
<barry> bug 788514 completed! (dh_python2 transition); investigated bug 816169; fixed bug 826795; fixed bug 824734 (upstream, doko merged); debian bug 633015 (sys.platform == 'linux2'); recovered from fglrx folly; done.
<barry>  
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 788514 in totem (Debian) "python packages on the CDs not using dh_python2" [Unknown,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/788514
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 816169 in ensemble (Ubuntu) "When using Ensemble, add-apt-repository no longer functions properly" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/816169
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 826795 in mailman (Debian) "Python dependencies are missing" [Unknown,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/826795
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 824734 in python2.7 (Ubuntu Oneiric) "locale.normalize does not accept unicode: TypeError in normalize(): character mapping must return integer, None or unicode" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/824734
<ubottu> Debian bug 633015 in python2.7 "when built on Linux 3.0, sys.platform = "linux3" causes multiple problems" [Important,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/633015
<mvo> done?
<barry> done!
<mvo> apt: work on the automatic tests, review debdelta diff for SoC, add support into auto-upgrade-tester for Apt::Immediate-configure-all=true; run tests against new ordering apt-chris branch and ping-pong problems with him, add the architectures to the mirror method querry string, merge fixes from debian/donkult
<mvo> aptdaemon: debug/fix #819328, debug/fix crash #825056
<mvo> software-center:  work on lp:~mvo/software-center/sortable-app-tree-view, review lp:~alexeftimie/software-center/packagekit-backend, review/merge review https://code.launchpad.net/~pitti/software-center/gi-fixes, upload new version, fix AUTHORS file merging into about dialog, debug/fix bug in private-dbus test scenario port to gir1.2-gmenu-3.0, debug/fix race in exhibits fetcher, lp:~mvo/software-center/gtk3-install-progress-autotest, fix bu
<mvo> g in treeview search , add test for it, debug gtkbuilder issue with spacing all wrong, submit bug #825173 with testcase, fix crash in gtk3 when a transaction finishes
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 825173 in gtk+3.0 (Ubuntu) "spacing issues with GtkTable in gtk3" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/825173
<mvo> softare-properties: fix bug in add-apt-repository for PPAs
<mvo> apt-ddtp: updated
<slangasek> a question came up on IRC the other day about what to do for packages that are still being backported to hardy, where we'll never have dh_python2... heh
<mvo> update-manager: review/merge +lp:~brian-murray/update-manager/tag-dist-upgrade,enable multiarch on upgrade, do not try to install reqired foreign arch packages,,  review/merge https://launchpad.net/bugs/824957
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 824957 in update-manager "[gtk3] right-click context menu for links no longer works" [Undecided,New]
<mvo> ubuntu-vm-builder: drive-by fixup in the packaging and upload new version
<mvo> command-not-found: review/merge lp:~julien-nicoulaud/command-not-found/fix-zsh-hook
<mvo> misc: write sqlite3-debversions plugin for a debversion collate function
<mvo> EOF
<barry> slangasek: heh
<doko_> well, at some time you have to make a cut, then these people have to take care about two packaging variants
<doko_> - more JamVM updates
<doko_> - integrate ARM hard float patches into eglibc, libffi, gcj
<doko_> - testing for Linaro GCC 4.5 and 4.6 release; powerpc and ARM
<doko_> - adjust linker flags for ghc and ocaml
<doko_> - fix some build failures
<doko_> - GCC bug triage
<doko_> - started test rebuild
<doko_> --
<cjwatson> Cleaned up highly amusing live filesystem build failures due to livecd-rootfs having been accidentally removed from the build chroots.
<cjwatson> Released initial version of syslinux-themes-ubuntu, which is enough to support localised image building.
<cjwatson> Working on testing and client-side scripting for new native source sync facility; this is now open to developers and we should be able to announce it soon, modulo a few bugs (mostly presentational issues).  Looking forward to not having to process the sync queue quite so much!
<cjwatson> Trying to cut down the NBS queue.  This is taking a while; I've been ending up chasing down the mess that the EFL library stack is in (FFes #828033 and #828004), and also openswan/strongswan and various other bits and pieces.
<cjwatson> Fixed up ntfs-3g seeds and dependencies in a few places.
<cjwatson> Chased down bug constructing -security entries in sources.list during installation (#820306), requiring SRUs.
<cjwatson> Continuing to push various Launchpad changes up the hill.  RT#47132 is involving some back-and-forth.
<cjwatson> --
<barry> sync'ing \o/
<bdmurray> Implemented DuplicateSignature's for apport-package bug reports and a package-conflict tag in apport
<bdmurray> apport upload preventing reporting of bugs where the conflicting package is not an Ubuntu one
<mvo> \o/
<bdmurray> Created duplicate signatures for existing apport-package install failures and marked approximately 200 bug reports as duplicates
<bdmurray> Tagged existing package-conflict bug reports in Launchpad
<bdmurray> updated ubiquity source package apport hook to detect I/O errors on CD drives
<bdmurray> bug triage of ubiquity bug reports (looking for I/O errors on CD drives and testing a duplicate signature using tracebacks in syslog files)
<bdmurray> bug pattern writing for bug 825786 and bug 798459
<bdmurray> created a packages with recent bugs report - http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/foundations-bugs/recent-package-bugs.html
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 825786 in gst-plugins-bad0.10 (Ubuntu Oneiric) "package gstreamer0.10-camerabin (not installed) failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite '/usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10/libgstcamerabin.so', which is also in package gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad 0.10.22-2ubuntu1" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/825786
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 798459 in nspluginwrapper (Ubuntu) "package nspluginwrapper 1.2.2-0ubuntu9 failed to install/upgrade: sub-processo script post-installation instalado retornou estado de saÃ­da de erro 134" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/798459
<bdmurray> done
<jhunt> Holiday last week. This week working on Upstart job logging feature.
<jhunt> â
<barry> jhunt: you and your fancy unicodes :)
<jhunt> âº
<barry> :) /me goes old skool
<ev> - Fighting camerabin move from gstreamer-plugins-bad to gstreamer-plugins-good
<ev> - Fixing Wubi disk image first stage bootloader
<ev> - Fixing dependency issues and other weirdness around the PyGI ubiquity
<ev> - Fixes to webcam and wireless pages
<ev> (done)
<slangasek> is that fight ongoing?
<doko_> still in component mismatches
<ev> yep
<slangasek> doh
<slangasek> ev: is it just a buildsystem wiring problem?
<ev> it's just silly copy and paste mistakes on my part
<ev> and the insanely long time it takes to build gstreamer on my machine
<slangasek> heh
<slangasek> * helped a bit with the stragglers on bug #788514
<slangasek> * pushed through a set of FFe multiarch library uploads to get flashplugin and skype multiarch-ready for this cycle
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 788514 in totem (Debian) "python packages on the CDs not using dh_python2" [Unknown,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/788514
<slangasek> * spent some time vivisecting ia32-libs
<slangasek> * vowed to remove ia32-libs from the archive as soon as P opens
<slangasek> * got cron rebuilt with a current debhelper, so that it would stop launching in my chroots now that upstart chroot passthrough support works
<slangasek> EOF
<slangasek> Any questions?
<slangasek> bdmurray says no bug updates for this week
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<meetingology> TOPIC: AOB
<slangasek> anything else you'd like to get off your chest?  Now's the time :-)
<mvo> please test software-center-gtk3 if you feel like it and let me know about problems
<barry> anybody else seeing higher than normal timeouts from launchpad?
<doko_> demotions ... I assume we can demote a whole lot of java packages
<mvo> its just part of the normal software-center packages and should just work(tm)
<slangasek> I haven't been seeing any timeouts... have they lowered the threshold again?
<barry> slangasek: dunno, i'm being ignored on #launchpad-dev :)
<barry> slangasek: can you try this one: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+search?text=chromium-browser
<slangasek> that means they're running around fixing whatever they broke, right? :)
<barry> :-D
<mvo> I did see some timeouts on LP, but not more than usually
<ev> software-center-gtk3> MY EYES
<doko_> barry: were some internal tools ported to python3? or should I ask, mvo, ev, pitti, ...
<mvo> ev: haha, the yellow in the banner? or the general UI?
<barry> my god it's full of stars
<bdmurray> barry: it timed out for me
<mvo> doko_: I prepared some stuff, but hit various roadblocks (like pygi ;)
<barry> bdmurray: thanks
<slangasek> barry: confirmed the timeout - that's not something I would normally use though, what does a search in "Ubuntu" return for that?
<barry> slangasek: it would return a package containing packages and upstream branches, etc.
<slangasek> doko_: did something change in javaland that will let us demote a bunch of packages?
<slangasek> barry: ah
<ev> I haven't ported anything to python3
<mvo> could I get a sync for "python-coverage" using the new LP feature? or is it not quite the right time yet for tihs?
<doko_> slangasek, eucalyptus
<cjwatson> mvo: not ready for everyone to do it, but I'm sure I could use another beta tester :)  I'll send you instructions by /msg
<mvo> I hit the issues that py3 will require the GI dbus and that is not fully done yet last I heared
<slangasek> mvo: <span font_desc="bold 34">Title</span> doesn't look quite right :)  (clicking on "Moovida Me...")
<mvo> cjwatson: great, thanks!
<slangasek> doko_: oh, sure :)
<slangasek> mvo: also: consistent misuse of "Its" vs. "It's" in the banners
<slangasek> :)
<barry> yeah, the python3 porting project didn't get off the ground this cycle as much as i wanted
<mvo> slangasek: moovida> oh, I haven't seen this one yet, could you do a screenshot for me
<mvo> slangasek: its> don't let germans write text, see e.g. nietsche for how this ends
<slangasek> heh
<slangasek> yes, will screenshot :)
 * mvo should actually learn to type too
<mvo> anyway
<slangasek> mvo: http://people.canonical.com/~vorlon/software-center-gtk-your-markup-is-showing.png
<mvo> slangasek: oh, woah. this looks like nothing at all is initialized yet for some reason, that is not intended
<mvo> slangasek: anything suspicious in the terminal or ~/.xsession-errors from s-c-gtk3?
<bdmurray> the reviews for vlc are taking a very long time to load
<slangasek> 2011-08-17 08:23:39,806 - softwarecenter.ui.gtk3.em - INFO - EM's: 17 15 21
<slangasek> 2011-08-17 08:23:46,438 - softwarecenter.backend.reviews - WARNING - Could not get usefulness from server, no username in config file
<slangasek> 2011-08-17 08:23:57,182 - softwarecenter.ui.gtk3.app - INFO - software-center-agent finished with status 1
<slangasek> mvo: ^^ that's it
<slangasek> bdmurray: are they video reviews
<bdmurray> slangasek: no those are on youtube
<mvo> slangasek: thanks, odd that. is it reproducable?
<slangasek> mvo: hmm.  no!
<mvo> bdmurray: thanks! but they show up eventually ?
<slangasek> mvo: restarted, now it renders correctly
<mvo> slangasek: the best kind of bugs :/
<bdmurray> mvo: no, no reviews have shown up
<mvo> thanks a bunch for this, but I don't want to hijack this meeting with this :)
<mvo> bdmurray: thanks, I check if I can rperoduce
<mvo> reproduce even
<slangasek> mvo: enjoy :)
<slangasek> I think that's about everything then, yes?
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology is the new Mootbot https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Aug 17 15:36:04 2011 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot . (v 0.1.4)
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-08-17-15.02.moin.txt
<slangasek> yes :)
<slangasek> thanks, all
<barry> thanks slangasek!
<jhunt> thanks!
<mvo> thanks
<hggdh> ok
<hggdh> QA meeting will start in 30 seconds
<hggdh> anybody here for it? jibel, patrickmw, Ursinha, pedro, any others?
<gema> hi
<patrickmw> aye
<Ursinha> I am
<Ursinha> printing
<Ursinha> sprinting
<hggdh> and gema :-)
<Ursinha> not printing
<Ursinha> lol
<hggdh> ok
<hggdh> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Aug 17 17:00:32 2011 UTC.  The chair is hggdh. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Useful Commands: #topic #action #link #idea #voters #vote #chair #action #agreed #help #info #endmeeting.
<Ursinha> .17
<Ursinha> sorry
<hggdh> [TOPIC] Previous Actions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Previous Actions
<meetingology> TOPIC: Previous Actions
 * charlie-tca waves
<hggdh> any previous actions? I am not aware of any
<charlie-tca> no previous actions that I can think of
<hggdh> BTW, apology from bdmurray, not available tonight
<hggdh> so
<hggdh> [TOPIC] Community Efforts/Testing
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Community Efforts/Testing
<meetingology> TOPIC: Community Efforts/Testing
<hggdh> pedro is not available either, BTW.
<hggdh> anything on community efforts?
<jibel> It's not like if they were in the same timezone as me ;)
<jibel> Hey all o/
<jibel> Nothing special this week, just a few dates:
<jibel> Oneiric Beta 1 testing will start in less than 2 weeks:
<jibel> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricReleaseSchedule
<jibel> Followed immediately by the Ubuntu Global Jam:
<jibel> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGlobalJam
<jibel> which incorporates a Testing event depending on where you will be attending
<jibel> that's all from me
<jibel> ..
<jibel> any question ?
<hggdh> thank you, jibel
<hggdh> with no questions, we move on
<hggdh> [TOPIC] Automated/Systems Testing
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Automated/Systems Testing
<meetingology> TOPIC: Automated/Systems Testing
<patrickmw> = Public Jenkins =
<patrickmw> â¢ It's official - https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/
<patrickmw> = DX Testing =
<patrickmw> â¢ DX testing environment ready to start creating jobs
<patrickmw> â¢ Open RT for getting LP access in order to branch projects -kind of important :)
<hggdh> patrickmw: floor is yours
 * hggdh was, as usual, too slow
<patrickmw> Now everyone can see the status of our automated testing suites/
<patrickmw> this will continue to grow, so keep an eye out
<patrickmw> ..
<hggdh> patrickmw: the public Jenkins is read-only for all, correct?
<patrickmw> yes
<jibel> patrickmw, will the public jenkins be opened to derivatives e.g xubuntu ?
<patrickmw> I see the instance to be available for all and any testing
<charlie-tca> really?
<hggdh> :-)
<patrickmw> yes
<charlie-tca> thanks
<hggdh> BTW, the test code we run there is located at https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-server-iso-testing-dev/ubuntu-server-iso-testing/trunk
<patrickmw> anything, but you will have to go through us to get your requests on the backlog
<hggdh> please do not be put off by the title -- when we started, it was only for the server. Now it is anything we can get to run ;-)
<hggdh> so, if you are willing to, please add tests and propose merges
 * charlie-tca will try to learn how to do that
<charlie-tca> ..
<jibel> hggdh, we should definitely rename this project because it tests more than ISOs now
<patrickmw> agreed
<hggdh> jibel: I agree
<patrickmw> i'll put in on the backlog :)
<hggdh> we can discuss it out-of-band, and then rename the beast
<hggdh> so
<hggdh> anything else on automated tests?
<patrickmw> yes, I have a few other topics about the framework too.  Nothing else from me
<hggdh> please go ahead, patrickmw
<patrickmw> offline is best :)
<hggdh> ok
<hggdh> [TOPIC] Engineering Team Bug Status
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Engineering Team Bug Status
<meetingology> TOPIC: Engineering Team Bug Status
<hggdh> bdmurray and pedro are absent. So... Ursinha ?
<jibel> they are sprinting not absent. And Ursinha is printing, that may take a while.
<hggdh> LOL
 * hggdh feels the printing is quite long
<hggdh> we move on.
<negueba> hey folks, don't know if the problem happens just for me but in ubuntu 11.04 the drivers atl1c and ath9k don't work at the same time... the system always happens to freezes at the splash screen... to get the system work i need to first disable my wireless card and then rmmod any of the drivers
<hggdh> for the record, most of the QA folks are in a sprint
<hggdh> negueba: this is not the correct channel. Please try #ubuntu
<jibel> negueba, we appreciate your problem but there is a meeting in progress
<negueba> i'm sorry guys
<hggdh> so their absence is justified (it is time for beers)
<hggdh> so we move on
<hggdh> [TOPIC] Odds & Ends
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Odds & Ends
<meetingology> TOPIC: Odds & Ends
<hggdh> this is open floor. Anyone wishing to talk should do so now
<hggdh> 3
<hggdh> 2
<hggdh> 1
<hggdh> TOPIC: Chair Selection
<hggdh> any candidates?
<hggdh> otherwise it will be shuf -e charlie-tca patrickmw pedro_ bdmurray jibel Ursinha|head -1
<hggdh> charlie-tca: can I include your name?
<charlie-tca> sure
<hggdh> jibel: you have been selected...
<hggdh> :-)
<hggdh> [ACTION] jibel to chair next meeting
<meetingology> ACTION: jibel to chair next meeting
<charlie-tca> :)
<charlie-tca> That sure is easier
<hggdh> and so, with the deafening silence on us, I...
<hggdh> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology is the new Mootbot https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Aug 17 17:18:32 2011 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot . (v 0.1.4)
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-08-17-17.00.moin.txt
<jibel> hggdh, Cool, I'm so happy to chair again thanks !
<hggdh> jibel: my shuffle was poisoned ;-)
 * jibel back to fixing his lawn mower
 * hggdh back to resolving the issues on bug 795159
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 795159 in ajaxterm (Ubuntu) "[MIR] ajaxterm" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/795159
<charlie-tca> Thank you, hggdh
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-08-18
<staatsfeindin> what is this channel about?
<ogra_> moop
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Aug 18 15:00:34 2011 UTC.  The chair is NCommander. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Useful Commands: #topic #action #link #idea #voters #vote #chair #action #agreed #help #info #endmeeting.
<NCommander> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/Meeting/2011/20110818
<NCommander> hrm, new boot, and it seems to be lagging :-(
<NCommander> #topic Standing Items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Standing Items
<meetingology> TOPIC: Standing Items
<davidm> G'day all
<NCommander> #link http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel.html
<NCommander> #link http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel-ubuntu-11.10-beta-1.html
<ogra_> you can use ubuntu-arm now
<ogra_> (i fixed that last week)
<NCommander> I can't decide if my laptop is completely foobared, or if its theinternet here :-(
 * NCommander is lagging something feirce
<NCommander> regardless the burndown chart doesn't look happy
<ogra_> http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-arm.html
<ogra_> http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-arm-ubuntu-11.10-beta-1.html
<NCommander> thank you ogra_
<ogra_> the beta one looks fine
<ogra_> we're a little above trend but not earth shattering
<NCommander> ugh, yeah, I'm lagging something hidiously bad
<NCommander> so I'll take your word for it (the image won't even load properly on thenew link for me)
<ogra_> heh
<ogra_> move :)
<NCommander> (the trendline for ubuntu-arm shows '12' as the start point so .... yeah)
<ogra_> yeah, ignore th etrend lines
<NCommander> #topic ARM Server Status (NCommander, Daviey)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Server Status (NCommander, Daviey)
<meetingology> TOPIC: ARM Server Status (NCommander, Daviey)
<NCommander> LXC on ARM should work out of the box once a new meta package to ship 2101 out of the box goes
<ogra_> i dont even know if there is a way to adjust it on other than the ubuntu-arm.html page
<NCommander> *1201
<NCommander> I'm now looking at openstack on ARM
<NCommander> and have some concerns since it seems to want an EC2-style image which we don't build for OMAP. Further research required
<ogra_> NCommander, is there anything i should change regarding the ac100 kernel ? (the server team uses dynabooks)
<NCommander> [action] NCommander to review openstack image requirements and report back
<meetingology> ACTION: NCommander to review openstack image requirements and report back
<NCommander> oh good, the old alias work
<ogra_> wrt LXC i mean
<NCommander> ogra_: run lxc-checkconfig. Ignore the namespace error, and make sure you can mount a cgroup with -o clone_children
<ogra_> k, thx
<NCommander> Ideally, just kick off a LXC instance
<ogra_> will test that
<NCommander> lxc-create does most of the hard work, poke me on IRC
<NCommander> My ac100 is currently dead and running natty so it won't be much help
<ogra_> will do, if i dont get along
<infinity> ogra_: You could just diff your config with the omap4 one, ignore hardware bits, and make the rest match. :P
<ogra_> there should be an oneiric installer soon
<NCommander> #topic Kernel Status (cooloney, ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Kernel Status (cooloney, ppisati)
<meetingology> TOPIC: Kernel Status (cooloney, ppisati)
 * NCommander LAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGS
<ogra_> infinity, yeahm, thats what i usually try ...
<ppisati> omap4 meta has been updated to 1202.6 (latest TI BSP + lxc fixes)
<ppisati> on the other end, work continues on the "arm scheduler bug"
<NCommander> Sweet. Next daily should then have LXC out of the box
<NCommander> (more or less)
<ppisati> found (and fixed) an smp clock bug, but didn't help
<ogra_> if you get a daily :)
 * NCommander smacks ogra_ 
<NCommander> that's an unhappy thought, and unhappy thoughts are disallowed while I'm chairing a meeting
<ogra_> heh
<ppisati> profiling is undergoing, but so far i didn't find the bttleneck yet
<NCommander> ppisati: sounds like the SMP issue on panda is proving to be an extremely difficult nut to crack
<infinity> s/on panda//
<ppisati> NCommander: definitely, but i've started looking at it just yesterday, so...
<ppisati> let's see
<janimo> ppisati, I think we do not have latencytop enabled in our omap4 kernel
<NCommander> infinity: point taken
<ppisati> but yes, it's nasty
<janimo> I tried to use that to debug the issues two weeks ago, and then found it is ok on nosmp
<ppisati> janimo: someone told me that latencytop was broken on arm, but don't remember who
<janimo> ppisati, Linaro have it enabled, so can't hurt
<ppisati> ah ok
<ppisati> i'll try it ou
<ppisati> t
<janimo> I hear dit was  ok un UP, not too ok on SMP
<ppisati> using perf right now
<ppisati> ah yes, and the sgw fix from ricardo :)
<ppisati> not pulled yet, but will shortly
<janimo> ppisati, great :)
<ppisati> that's all from my side
<ogra_> good to have you back :)
<NCommander> ppisati: bestof luck. If you manage to fry your brain on this bug, then you've officially made it as a member of the ARM developer community
<ppisati> :)
<ogra_> heh
<ppisati> i will
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
<meetingology> TOPIC: ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
<NCommander> main is looking happier
<infinity> Yup.
<infinity> And I have a ton of uploads sitting here to re-transition ocaml today.
<NCommander> who fixed ocaml?
<NCommander> Ah
<infinity> Debian maintainer fixed it, I uploaded said fix.
<NCommander> Was it an underlying bug with binutil's handling Cortex A8 errta?
<infinity> Not really.
<NCommander> nuts
<NCommander> that was the train of thought I was working on before life got busy
<infinity> More undefined behaviour that required us to jam in an extra section and make everything happy again.
<ogra_> omg !
<ogra_> libx86 fails
<janimo> ocaml using packages still segfault
<ogra_> someone fix that !
<janimo> I saw a few today
<infinity> I mean, one could argue it's binutils' fault, but ocaml was hand-crafting bits in a "workaround the compiler" sort of way, so their own foot they shot.
<NCommander> ogra_: $#!@I NFU'ed that package last cycle
<infinity> janimo: Yes, see above about re-transitioning.
<janimo> infinity, oki
<infinity> janimo: Anything build before my last ocaml upload is broken.
<infinity> s/build/built/
<janimo> infinity, I gave back two packages today and yesterday and they segfaulted
<janimo> maybe you uploaded a new ocaml yesterday?
<janimo> or they need explicit reupload for transitioning?
<infinity> janimo: Which 2?  If they depend on other non-transitioned stuff, they'd still break.
<infinity> janimo: There's an order here. :)
<janimo> order? In the builds? awesome news :)
<ogra_> pfft, orders .... just throw the whole bunch at the buildd until nothing returns :P
<janimo> I'll check to see which exactly
<infinity> janimo: (But I'd appreciate data points anyway, if it's only half-fixed, I'd like to know... I suspect you're just bouncing packages with broken/un-transitioned build-deps, though)
 * NCommander beats ogra_ with something heavier
<ogra_> *squeek*
<NCommander> See? Fun noises.
<ogra_> just for you :)
<ogra_> move ?
<infinity> Anyhow.
<NCommander> #topic ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<meetingology> TOPIC: ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<ogra_> desktop is broken thanks to archive skew
<infinity> It's broken thanks to archive breakage.
<ogra_> on monday sw-center, since tuesday mono joined
<infinity> (ie: every arch is broken)
<ogra_> sw-center is fine again, that affected all arches
<ogra_> beyond that, ac100 image is progressing, my final livefs testbuild should finish any minute
<ogra_> server preinstalled are fine, netboot are fine again since the last d-i uplaod
<ogra_> janimo, anything about mx5 to report ?
<janimo> ogra_, nope, waiting for the kernels to test live image
<ogra_> ah, great (i wondered if my mic was muted :) )
<ogra_> NCommander, nothing to add from my side
<NCommander> ENOTOBIN so skipping QA status
<NCommander> #topic Any Other Business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Any Other Business
<meetingology> TOPIC: Any Other Business
<ogra_> well, i noticed this week how much support tobin does all the time ....
<janimo> ogra_, nope, I just found an inappropriate moment to switch to xubuntu from unity-2d so sometimes my windows disappear :)
<davidm> true enough he is missed
<NCommander> On the flip side, the pull of gravity in the house is no longer slated towards his office
 * NCommander runs away
<davidm> ogra_, same can be said about you
<infinity> You running from all the things that are now heading your way? :P
<ogra_> well, my vacation is done now :)
<NCommander> pfft, we should just all go on vacation at the same time
<NCommander> No one wouldbe missed if the ARM team disappeared in December
<davidm>  and I'm very happy it is for sure
<ogra_> davidm, which remids me about the missing paperwork *grin*
<davidm> OK one item is folks we would like to see at UDS
 * NCommander will find some names
<infinity> David Copperfield?
<ogra_> infinity, huh, really ?
<davidm> Anyone we really need to sponsor?
 * ogra_ would prefer claudia schiffer then
<infinity> ogra_: It was the first sarcastic answer to pop to mind. :P
<infinity> ogra_: But yours is better.
<davidm> I've seen David Copperfield he is quite good
<infinity> davidm: I assume we have our usual Linaro suspects coming already?
<davidm> maybe he can make all ARM bugs go away
<ogra_> we dont sponsor linaro :)
<infinity> ogra_: I know/figured.
<davidm> yes Linaro will be there as their Linaro connect will be at UDS
<NCommander> We should probably see if we can get LXC upstream/openstack upstream to attend again
 * ogra_ has some ideas but will have to talk to people first 
<NCommander> if nothing else, I'd like to close the meeting out
<ogra_> go
<NCommander> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology is the new Mootbot https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Aug 18 15:28:59 2011 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot . (v 0.1.4)
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-08-18-15.00.moin.txt
<NCommander> And done.
<ogra_> :)
<NCommander> WTF
<infinity> ?
<NCommander> GrueMaster just left the channel, but I know he'snot here, and if he's on IRC, he's doing something wrong during his VAC
<ogra_> well, he joined when the meeting started
<ogra_> i guess he just lurked from his phone or so
<NCommander> I have to wonder if he has a script to autojoin
<beuno> how's everybody doing today?
<holstein> beuno: doing well :)
<beuno> good, good!
<beuno> we're a few minutes from starting
 * dscassel settles in.
<beuno> so we're just missing tenach
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-08-19
<pleia2> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Fri Aug 19 00:00:09 2011 UTC.  The chair is pleia2. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Useful Commands: #topic #action #link #idea #voters #vote #chair #action #agreed #help #info #endmeeting.
<pleia2> Hello and welcome to the Ubuntu Membership Review Board for the Americas meeting for August 18th 2011.  The wiki page for the Review Board is available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/Americas
<pleia2> The format for the meeting is as follows: We will go through the list of applicants one by one, by date of application (FIFO).
<pleia2> Each applicant should introduce themselves (1-5 sentences) and provide links to their Ubuntu Wiki page. After the introduction the members of the Membership Review Board will review the pages and, if needed, ask the applicant further questions.
<pleia2> During this time it is encouraged for other members of the community to show their support for the applicant. Do not be alarmed if the members of the Membership Review Board are quiet during this time; they are most likely reading wiki/launchpad/forum/other pages and deciding how they are going to vote.
<pleia2> When the board is ready to vote, they will publicly vote in the channel with either +1, 0, or -1 (for membership, abstain, and against membership, respectively). If the sum of those numbers is positive, then the applicant is now an official Ubuntu member! (feel free congratulate them!)
<pleia2> Now, with any further ado, lets get started with the first applicant...
<pleia2> looks like tenach isn't here
<pleia2> [TOPIC] dscassel membership
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: dscassel membership
<meetingology> TOPIC: dscassel membership
<dscassel> Hi. :)
<dscassel> So I'm Darcy.  I'm the LoCo contact for Ubuntu Canada.
<pleia2> dscassel: please introduce yourself and provide a link to your wiki :)
<dscassel> Wiki page here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/dscassel
<beuno> LoCo contact, fancy!
<cyphermox> doing a great job at it too.
<dscassel> I started out running release parties in my town, then formed a group locally.
<dscassel> Thanks. :)
<dscassel> Then I decided to revive the Ubuntu Canada LoCo which had been dormant a couple years.
<beuno> CUSTOM CAKES!
<dscassel> Since then I've been continuing to do local stuff and trying to encourage other Canadian cities to join the fun.
<dscassel> Yes! :D
<dscassel> My friend Holly does the decarating.  She's a pretty fantastic artist. :)
<beuno> and an endorsment from Corey, hard to beat that
<dscassel> Anyway, I've taken up chairing the ubuntu-ca IRC meetings, and I'm slowly getting out and meeting Ubuntu people in Ontario.
<dscassel> beuno: I think he was happy someone finally took the LoCo off his hands. :)
<dscassel> He hadn't had time to do anything for a while, so I approached him about taking over.
<pleia2> such a complete wiki! and love to see such great testimonials :)
<dscassel> Thanks, pleia2 :)
<dscassel> I've been through LoCo reapprovals, so I have a pretty good idea what goes over well. :)
<beuno> dscassel, what's it like being the LoCo contact?
<dscassel> beuno: It's certainly interesting.
<dscassel> Most of the job involves motivating (or trying to motivate) other people remotely.
<beuno> "the airpplane just lost an engine" interesting?  :)
<dscassel> And that's hard.
<dscassel> I can keep running cool events and stuff in town fine, and that's great.
<dscassel> I think most LoCos run like that anyway.
<dscassel> But to be Ubuntu Canada, it really ought to be more than just me here in Waterloo.
<dscassel> I've had some success encouraging things in Toronto.  But a big part of that is Toronto is an hour down the road.
 * beuno nods
<pleia2> [VOTE] dscassel membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: dscassel membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<pleia2> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from pleia2
<cyphermox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
<beuno> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from beuno
<Pendulum> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Pendulum
<pleia2> [endvote]
<meetingology> Voting ended on: dscassel membership
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<pleia2> congrats and welcome dscassel :)
<beuno> \o/
<dscassel> Thanks, all. :D
<holstein> dscassel: w00t!
<pleia2> [TOPIC] holstein membership
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: holstein membership
<meetingology> TOPIC: holstein membership
<holstein> hello all... this is my page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/holstein#About_Me
<holstein> im a musician in asheville north carolina, in akgraner 's neck of the woods
<holstein> i organize the local LUG meetings http://www.wnclug.info/
<holstein> we try and *not* have an ubuntu users group, since it was alreay in place before i got there, but we do lots of ubuntu showcases
<pleia2> yeah, I ran the LUG in Philly for a while, the Ubuntu volunteers were great for doing presentations and events at and with the LUG :) great way to work together
<holstein> our NC loco is a bit down at the moment, and in transition, but there are 4 or 5 or us that our going to bring it back hopefully this fall
<holstein> pleia2: akgraner has presented a few times :)
<pleia2> what kind of work do you do for ubuntu studio? (I'm familiar with your UWN and tireless #ubuntu-beginners support work :))
<holstein> i am active, and probably mostly focuses on ubuntustudio right now
<holstein> its mostly trying to drum up help
<holstein> im probably never going to be a coding contributor, which is unfortunate, since thats what we really need
<holstein> but, i am helping with documenation, running meetings.. whatever scott lavendar needs help with
<pleia2> great
<holstein> these are exciting times (potentially) for that team
<holstein> lots of new software coming in... ardour3, switching to XFCE
<holstein> we'll see...
<pleia2> I have to admit that I'm pleased about the switch to XFCE (my love!) :)
<holstein> yeah, the xubuntu team is just awesome
<pleia2> [VOTE] holstein membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: holstein membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<pleia2> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from pleia2
<beuno> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from beuno
<Pendulum> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Pendulum
<beuno> stgraber, you with cyphermox?
<beuno> can you channel his vote?
<pleia2> (cyphermox had his battery die on him, doh!)
<holstein> :/
<stgraber> he's supposde to appear soon. Was going to his roomfor power
<beuno> holstein, you're 3/4, so you're technically in  ;)
<holstein> lol
<beuno> lets give him a bit, though
<dscassel> Congrats, holstein :)
<beuno> plus, who could vote against someone in the front lines, helping begginners?
<holstein> i enjoy it
<akgraner> holstein, rocks! (sorry just had to say so)
<pleia2> thanks akgraner :)
<holstein> akgraner: thanks :)
<holstein> i wouldnt be here without akgraner 's help, thats for sure
<stgraber> hmm, I guess I could vote too if that helps on that one. I read the wikipage and I'm part of the EMEA membership board.
<akgraner> :-) you're welcome!  You do a lot for the team and I am excited to see all the areas you are contributing too..
<beuno> stgraber, that works
<pleia2> wb cyphermox
<cyphermox> I was +1 ;)
<beuno> \o/
<stgraber> +1 then (just to make sure you have enough of them :))
<cyphermox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
<pleia2> [endvote]
<meetingology> Voting ended on: holstein membership
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
 * holstein high-fives dscassel ... thanks everybody!
<charlie-tca> Congratulations, holstein
<pleia2> congrats holstein :)
<dscassel> :)
<akgraner> Congrats holstein! \o/
<akgraner> and you too dscassel !
<cyphermox> congrats holstein and dscassel
<dscassel> Oh, and thanks, cyphermox, for encouraging me to finally get out and do this. :)
<pleia2> thanks for coming to the meeting everyone
<pleia2> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology is the new Mootbot https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot
<meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Aug 19 00:27:16 2011 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot . (v 0.1.4)
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-08-19-00.00.moin.txt
<charlie-tca> Congratulations, dscassel
<beuno> congrats holstein, dscassel!
<dscassel> Awesome. Thanks again, folks.
 * pitti waves hello
<skaet> hiya pitti.
<jibel> Hey all :)
 * skaet is on a hotel connection.   Is there a volunteer to continue the round table if I drop off again?
<skaet> hiya jibel:)
 * skaet looks around and doesn't see the crowd pushing forward to volunteer....
<skaet> lol
<skaet> oh well,  time to start
<skaet> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Fri Aug 19 15:01:01 2011 UTC.  The chair is skaet. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Useful Commands: #topic #action #link #idea #voters #vote #chair #action #agreed #help #info #endmeeting.
<skaet> hmm... just had a cut paste failure.   Will recreate and paste at end of meeting.
 * stgraber waves
<skaet> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2011-08-19
<skaet> basically concern right now on the number of regression bugs as critical/high at this stage.
<skaet> but ... more later
<skaet> any questions/issues before starting in to round table?
<skaet> ..
 * NCommander arrives (sorry Im late)
<skaet> [TOPIC] Hardware Certification team update - mlegris
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hardware Certification team update - mlegris
<meetingology> TOPIC: Hardware Certification team update - mlegris
<skaet> or brendand?
<mlegris> [Week 33 Testing Report]
 * hggdh waves
<mlegris> A3 Testing finished on Wednesday, finished ~140 systems
<mlegris> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~hwcert/oneiric-testing/oneiric_alpha3.html
<mlegris> .
<mlegris> * 37 Oneiric related bugs reported
<mlegris> * 25 are HW specific Â 
<mlegris> * 17 Checkbox bugs reported
<mlegris> (oneiric caused some havoc with our testing suite)
<mlegris> Next week will be the normal weekly testing
<mlegris> ..
<skaet> Thanks mlegris!
<skaet> Are there some bugs you consider blockers for B1 that you want extra focus on?
<mlegris> most of the hw bugs are blockers for us
<mlegris> vanhoof has been doing a great job looking into those
<mlegris> fyi: bugs with blocks-hwcert are our high priority bugs
<skaet> mlegris,  thanks.   I'll follow up early next week on some of the specifics then.
<mlegris> great, thanks!
<skaet> any other questions?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Security team update - jdstrand
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Security team update - jdstrand
<meetingology> TOPIC: Security team update - jdstrand
<jdstrand> hello :)
<skaet> :)
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
<jdstrand> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/canonical-security.html
<jdstrand> We are back on track for our assigned work items in our blueprints as can be seen in our trend line. Most of the remaining work items are either not tied to the release or are bug fixes.
<jdstrand> One notable exception is apparmor mediation of dbus. As mentioned in #ubuntu-release a while ago, we are hoping to have a tech preview available for Oneiric that defaults to off (ie, dbus meditation is turned off by default and it behaves like normal).
<jdstrand> Work is ongoing, but this may slip, at which point we should have something when 'P' opens.
<jdstrand> Looking at the list of oneiric bugs, I don't see anything else worth highlighting.
<jdstrand> ..
<skaet> Thanks jdstrand!  any questions?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Kernel team update - ogasawara
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Kernel team update - ogasawara
<meetingology> TOPIC: Kernel team update - ogasawara
<ogasawara> Overall status is reported at the first link below.  Burn down for Oneiric Beta-1 is at the second link below.  Burndown for the cycle is at the third link:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/canonical-kernel-team-ubuntu-11.10-beta-1.html
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/group/topic-oneiric-kernel-tasks.html
<ogasawara> Last week we uploaded the Ubuntu 3.0.0-8.11 kernel which was rebased onto upstream stable v3.0.1.  Since then upstream stable v3.0.2 and v3.0.3 have released.  We've rebased and plan to upload today.  We intend this to be our final upload prior to Beta-1.  We are currently trending slightly above our Beta-1 burndown chart but are below overall.  The remaining work items are not release critical.
<ogasawara> Of the bugs called out on the agenda against the kernel, status is as follows:
<ogasawara> #542660: looks to be related to EFI boot not loading the video bios into ram.
<ogasawara> #557261: updated logs attached, investigation ongoing.
<ogasawara> #708286: assigned to kernel dev, awaiting feedback for test kernel.
<ogasawara> #754711: on a 3.0 oneiric kernel, system now suspends but doesn't resume.  systemtap debug scripts to help investigate are being worked on for Oneiric, see 815944 (systemtap fix recently posted upstream).
<ogasawara> #758486: updated debug information attached, investigation ongoing.
<ogasawara> #760131: partly fixed in Oneiric and soon natty, more analysis ongoing upstream.
<ogasawara> #784937: Fix Committed.
<ogasawara> #790712: the order 5 allocation seems to be bogus and non-fatal; further investigation ongoing.
<ogasawara> #791850: Fix Committed.
<ogasawara> #793486: the requested debug info has been attached, likely going to require a bisect.
<ogasawara> Questions?
<ogasawara> ..
<skaet> Thanks ogasawara!   Nice seeing those fix committeds :)
<skaet> [TOPIC] Foundations team update - cjwatson
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Foundations team update - cjwatson
<meetingology> TOPIC: Foundations team update - cjwatson
<cjwatson> hi
<skaet> :)
<cjwatson> Evan landed his Ubiquity FFe; now using PyGI and GTK+ 3.
<cjwatson> Code to switch over to new reduced DVD images committed, but I haven't quite got a successful build out of it yet due to archive inconsistency.
<cjwatson> Working on testing and client-side scripting for new native source sync facility in Launchpad; review is nearly complete and this should be available to developers soon.
<cjwatson> Much work on trying to sort out component-mismatches and NBS.  component-mismatches is looking rather better now (thanks doko and others!), but NBS is still a swamp (and many of these correspond to build failures).  Please help if you can.
<cjwatson> Multiarch turned on by default on amd64 upgrades, and ia32-libs cut down quite a bit.  Steve plans to remove it entirely at the start of the P cycle.  \o/
<cjwatson> Bugs: Still a bit of a swamp, but we should be able to make more progress now that the giant ubiquity update has landed (most of the milestoned bugs are installer problems of one kind or another).
<cjwatson>  * 597673: Started work on constructing a suitable test environment.
<cjwatson>  * 702283: This may or may not happen - it's Medium, and a lot of hard work.
<cjwatson> Others are queued; I think we should be able to address at least the High ones (745960, 819624, 820514) by beta freeze.  756147 is not ours, as noted in the bug (although I've retried the build anyway since doko said it should be fixed with the current toolchain).
<cjwatson> ..
<skaet> Thanks cjwatson!
<skaet> any one have specific questions?
 * skaet just cross checked and spotted her answer in status :)
<doko> filed ~80 ftbfs reports for main
<doko> universe rebuild is still running
<skaet> doko - what was the change that triggered the ~80ftbfs
<doko> http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20110816-oneiric.html
<doko> skaet, nothing particular
<ogra_> wow, why does that differ so much from http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/ftbfs/
<ogra_> (has only 16 packages failing for main)
<doko> we just didn't upload everything in oneiric
<ogra_> ah
<doko> thanks to wgrant to adding bug numbers to this page
<skaet> doko,  when I looked last night it was down in the 20s...
<doko> skaet, well, the rebuild is running, it was then just one day building ...
<skaet> doko,  ok,  will see where things are on monday then.
<skaet> thanks
<doko> currently we have around ~10 universe builds running/hour
<skaet> ok,  I'll just add a request to each of the teams to have a look at the ftbfs list and help clean up the packages they're tracking.
<doko> thanks!
<skaet> [TOPIC] ARM team update - NCommander or ogra
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM team update - NCommander or ogra
<meetingology> TOPIC: ARM team update - NCommander or ogra
<ogra_> = Full Status is at: =
<ogra_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARMTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
<ogra_> --
<ogra_> = Summary =
<ogra_>  - TI/linaro rework of u-boot to not need a separate x-loader package anymore is ongoing, FFe requests and adjustment of the image builders ahead !
<ogra_>  - Cleanup of jasper is still ongoing
<ogra_>  - AC100 image implementation is in its last stages
<ogra_>  - mx5 livefs builds should work, now that the kernel package is in the archive. debian-cd changes pending
<ogra_>  - fixup work on armel server to make LXC work flawless has been done last week
<ogra_>  - constant server QA testing is ongoing
<ogra_> --
<ogra_> = Image Status =
<ogra_>  - Desktop images don't build due to software-center python issues (affects all arches apparently)
<ogra_>  - Server images build and install fine
<ogra_>  - Netboot images work fine
<ogra_> --
<ogra_> = Specs =
<ogra_>  - Entire http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-arm.html
<ogra_>  - B1 http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-arm-ubuntu-11.10-beta-1.html
<ogra_> --
<ogra_> voila :)
<ogra_> ..
<skaet> :)
<cjwatson> that software-center issue is fixed FYI
<skaet> Thanks ogra_!
<ogra_> yeah, i thought so
<skaet> what's the outlook for seeing the mx5 images start to show up in the dailies?
<ogra_> during next week i'd say, the kernel enetered the archive yesterday
<ogra_> livecd-rootfs should have all bits, so only cdimage/debian-cd changes are pending
<ogra_> ..
<skaet> ogra_, coolio.   Looking forward to seeing it.  :)
<ogra_> :)
<skaet> any other questions?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Linaro update - rsalveti or fabo
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Linaro update - rsalveti or fabo
<meetingology> TOPIC: Linaro update - rsalveti or fabo
<fabo> o/
<fabo> * OpenGL ES support for Unity 3D on Oneiric is waiting code review (requires a FFe) * Nux: https://code.launchpad.net/~linaro-graphics-wg/nux/nux-gles2/+merge/70279 * Compiz: http://git.compiz.org/compiz/core/log/?h=gles
<fabo> * x-loader replacement with U-Boot SPL on-going Linaro 11.08 release
<fabo> * Linaro GCC 4.6 and 4.5 2011.08 released * 4.6 fixes: bug 736007, bug 809768, bug 815777  * 4.5 fixes: bug 736007, bug 809768, bug 815435
<fabo> * Michael Hope has commented on bug 775849. It's low priority on his list and should be re-assigned (as we agreed at last meeting).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 736007 in Linaro GCC "[armel] ICE immed_double_const at emit-rtl.c (-mfpu=neon -g)" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/736007
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 809768 in Linaro GCC "Linaro GCC 4.6-2011.06-0 gets ICE when compiling bionic's libm" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/809768
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 815777 in Linaro GCC "gcc-linaro 4.6-2011.07 packaging is broken" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/815777
<fabo> ..
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 775849 in eglibc (Ubuntu) "[armel] eglibc test regressions on armel in oneiric" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/775849
<skaet> Thanks fabo!   Will look into the 775849 bug and follow up offline.
<skaet> [TOPIC] Ubuntu One Team -  Chipaca or joshuahoover
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu One Team -  Chipaca or joshuahoover
<meetingology> TOPIC: Ubuntu One Team -  Chipaca or joshuahoover
<skaet> hmm... neither is around,  so before we move onto the desktops,  would like to get QA's report
<skaet> [TOPIC] QA team update -  jibel
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: QA team update -  jibel
<meetingology> TOPIC: QA team update -  jibel
<jibel> * Automated Testing progress
<jibel>   * New tests added to daily tests :
<jibel>     * Alternate LVM and encrypted home
<jibel>     * Desktop encrypted home and live session
<jibel> * Bug activity
<jibel>  Top 5 packages with most opened bugs reported during last week (over a total of 397 unique reports (no dups))
<jibel> unity: 54	(13.60%)
<jibel> linux: 24	(6.05%)
<jibel> compiz: 16	(4.03%)
<jibel> nautilus: 14	(3.53%)
<jibel> software-center: 13	(3.27%)
<jibel> * 36 reports are regressions (9% (+2%) of the bugs reported over last week)
<jibel> * Top 3: unity (22), compiz (3), nautilus (2)
<jibel> * Packages with High/Critical bugs opened and reported this week:
<jibel> unity (10), nux (2) and ubuntu-meta (1 critical)
<jibel> * Top 3 crashers of the week are:
<jibel> unity: 12 (22% of the bugs reported against this package)
<jibel> software-center: 12 ( 93% )
<jibel> compiz: 10 (63%)
<jibel> * Top 3 packages that need triage (based on the number of untouched reports)
<jibel> unity:    23/54 (42.6%)
<jibel> compiz:   13/16 (81.3%)
<jibel> unity-2d:  9/11 (81.9%)
 * jibel has nothing against unity :)
<pitti> no, but it has a lot against us these days :/
<jibel> that's all from qa
<jibel> ..
<jibel> any question ?
<jibel> or comment
<skaet> thanks jibel!  good data.
<skaet> I'm worried about the #of critical/high regressions I was seeing yesterday too.
 * skaet looks around for questions...
<skaet> [TOPIC] Desktop Team update - pitti
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Desktop Team update - pitti
<meetingology> TOPIC: Desktop Team update - pitti
<pitti> GNOME 3.1.5 mostly landed except for three remaining packages.
<pitti> Landed some high-urgency fixes in unity which cause a lot of crashes and other grief on Friday.
<pitti> We currently have a harder decision to make about whether or not to update pygobject to 2.90 (i. e. future 3.0). See bug 828751 for details and pro/con.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 828751 in pygobject (Ubuntu) "[FFE] update pygobject to 2.90.1" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/828751
<pitti> pygobject to 2.90 (i. e. future 3.0). See bug 828751 for details and pro/con.
<pitti> Lots of bug fixing this week.
<pitti> Still swamped by too many "last mile" work items for 90% done specs, and a large bug backlog.
<pitti> RC bug status: on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus#rcbugs as usual
<pitti> nothing earthshattering there, biggest issue for derivatives is bug 789333, which just started being worked on
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 789333 in policykit-1-gnome (Ubuntu Oneiric) "users-admin crashes on start because of mixed GTK2 and 3 symbols" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/789333
<pitti> other than that we have lots of non-RC bugs which in sum spoil the experience, but that's not a good matter to track here
<pitti> ..
<skaet> Thanks pitti!
<skaet> will work with you off line to prune down the list.
<Ursinha_> 17
<Ursinha_> sorry
<skaet> and thanks to robert ansell,  for fixing alot of the lightdm bugs,  that should unblock some of the other teams.
<skaet> [TOPIC] Desktop Experience Team Update - dbarth
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Desktop Experience Team Update - dbarth
<meetingology> TOPIC: Desktop Experience Team Update - dbarth
<pitti> ecryptfs started working agian today
<skaet> :)
<dbarth> yup
<dbarth> so
<dbarth> the report as usual https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/OneiricReleaseStatus
<dbarth> highlights:
<dbarth> - a new weekly release of unity, with IM support and lots of bug fixes
<dbarth> (including some out of release fixed since this morning)
<dbarth> - alt-tab fixes as well, to make it more usable
<dbarth> ('xcept on my machine which is running devl, so bear with me)
<dbarth> a good series of indicator updates, the front is stable there now
<dbarth> unity-2d missed the weekly upload, but Florian is working with seb128 now; catching up with missing views
<dbarth> compiz: reshuffle of the branches to realign upstream with what's in oneiric
<dbarth> the uwd rewrite branch is tracked independently now
<dbarth> last : CJK status
<dbarth> the xapian patch is now well tested by OEM
<dbarth> and ibus support is mostly there, with IM support first this week, and multicontext ie ibus next week now
<dbarth> ..
<skaet> thanks dbarth!
<dbarth> (sorry that was a bit slow)
<skaet> when will the next drop be?  (wednesday?)
<skaet> hmm..  will move on then and follow up with him offline.
<dbarth> skaet: thursday?
<jibel> o/
<dbarth> why wednesday? am i missing a milestone?
<skaet> dbarth, plan was for the drops to land on wednesday.
<skaet> we'll be entering beta freeze on tuesday
<skaet> s/tuesday/thursday
<dbarth> when approaching milestones
<skaet> yeah beta 1 is sept 1.   so its approaching.
<skaet> :)
<dbarth> uh, right, ok
<dbarth> yes
<skaet> thanks.
<skaet> go jibel
<jibel> dbarth, on DX team's bugs on radar list, I see no reference to 'video corruption' issues
<jibel> there are many convergent reports showing problems there
<jibel> What's the status (unless it's on another team's hands) ?
<dbarth> i have no status update on it yet; jay is investigating it, but it's mostly at the driver level
<jibel> do you expect improvements/fixes before B1 ?
<pitti> jibel: for the corrupted popup windows? or still with external screens?
<dbarth> ah that's different
<dbarth> the corrupted popups are fixed
<dbarth> or have a fix
<pitti> ah, great; they are quite irritating
<dbarth> the video issues are more related to fglrx problems
<jibel> pitti, external (e.g bug 824099) and screen corruption on fglrx
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 824099 in compiz (Ubuntu Oneiric) "[~30 systems] Plugging in external monitor to VGA port makes both displays corrupted with thick slanted lines" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/824099
<dbarth> yes, i'm aware of this one
<dbarth> but we don't have an answer at this point
<jibel> ok, thanks
<skaet> ok,   not seeing any other questions,  so moving on.
<skaet> [TOPIC] Kubuntu Team update - ScottK
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Kubuntu Team update - ScottK
<meetingology> TOPIC: Kubuntu Team update - ScottK
<skaet> hmm... no ScottK around I guess..   anyone else from Kubuntu?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Edubuntu Team update - stgraber or highvoltage
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Edubuntu Team update - stgraber or highvoltage
<meetingology> TOPIC: Edubuntu Team update - stgraber or highvoltage
<stgraber> hey everyone!
<skaet> :)
<stgraber> ok, so really not that much on the Edubuntu side, mostly because highvoltage is quite busy and I've been traveling lately.
<stgraber> our images build fine which is always nice to have
<stgraber> I'm hoping to get the initial work done on LTSP live next week so we can file the FFe and solve our last big bug
<Daviey> stgraber: do you have any work involved in the ubiquity transition?
<Daviey> The pygi changes?
<stgraber> we also have a small problem with some of the tools we ship no longer working with gnome3 that we'll probably have to drop
<stgraber> Daviey: I haven't looked at it yet, but we don't use custom widgets or simular for our steps, so if we need to port them to gi, it should be fairly easy
<Daviey> super
<stgraber> so it's pretty likely we'll be dropping sabayon, pessulus and nanny this cycle
<stgraber> just need to review them once more but last we checked they weren't gnome3/dconf aware
<stgraber> and the Edubuntu team won't have the time to port them all (especially as we aren't the upstream for these, gnome is)
<stgraber> I guess that's all for Edubuntu
<stgraber> any question?
<skaet> Thanks stgraber!
<stgraber> oh
<stgraber> ..
<stgraber> :)
<skaet> :)
 * skaet not seeing further questions so moving on...
<skaet> [TOPIC] Xubuntu Team update - charlie-tca
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Xubuntu Team update - charlie-tca
<meetingology> TOPIC: Xubuntu Team update - charlie-tca
<charlie-tca> I apologize, I am not ready today. I just got the computer up
<charlie-tca> lightdm bugs are fixed and it is working
<charlie-tca> will update the agenda to reflect after the meeting
<charlie-tca> ..
<skaet> thanks charlie-tca!   appreciate you updating the agenda after the meeting.   It helps.  :)
<skaet> any specific questions?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Lubuntu Team update - gilir
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lubuntu Team update - gilir
<meetingology> TOPIC: Lubuntu Team update - gilir
<gilir> hi :)
<skaet> :)
<gilir> Not much to report this week
<gilir> We focused on merging bugfix releases/revisions from Debian, and updating bugfix releases from upstream.
<gilir> Working on lightdm switch by default, configuration is working (setting session and greeter by default), but still crashing on upgrade (maybe relative to bug #829514))
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 829514 could not be found
<gilir> For next week:
<gilir> - The new theme should be uploaded, + some community wallpapers
<gilir> - Finishing merging bugfix releases/revisions from upstream and Debian
<gilir> - Re-enable lightdm by default on daily, test and decide before the freeze if we keep it
<gilir> ..
<skaet> Thanks gilir,  I don't have that bug on my list.  Is the number accurate?
 * skaet sees lauchpad can't find it either ;)
<gilir> I just reported it recently, and still private for retracing
<skaet> gilir,  coolio.   Thanks!
<skaet> any questions?
<jibel> gilir, you'll wait for a while, there's no retracer
<gilir> jibel, ok thanks :)
<skaet> [TOPIC] MOTU team update - tumbleweed
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: MOTU team update - tumbleweed
<meetingology> TOPIC: MOTU team update - tumbleweed
<tumbleweed> hi
<skaet> :)
<tumbleweed> Since freeze, people have been concentrating on FTBFS \o/
<tumbleweed> http://corelli.tumbleweed.org.za/ubuntu-qa/qa-ftbfs/oneiric-historical.html (I really must get that in good shape for ubuntuwire...)
<tumbleweed> I suspect we'll see many more in doko's rebuild
<tumbleweed> Still lots of NBS/transition work to do too
 * skaet nods
<tumbleweed> No sign of the eclipse FFe that micahg mentioned, yet
<tumbleweed> I tried to politely enforce FFes for the dh_python2 transitions, but that hasn't achieved much. One incomplete FFe, and a response of ~ "I'd like to do these without bureaucracy, please" :/
<tumbleweed> that's all from me
<tumbleweed> ..
<skaet> thanks tumbleweed!   can you send me more details offline about the FFe?
<tumbleweed> sure
<skaet> thanks!
<skaet> any other questions?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Server team update - Daviey
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Server team update - Daviey
<meetingology> TOPIC: Server team update - Daviey
<Daviey> o/
<skaet> :)
<Daviey> Hi, things are looking pretty good!
<Daviey> Since the last meeting, lots of openstack and it's depends have entered main.  There are a few issues blocking swift/glance promotion, but these have been identified and on target to be resolved.
<Daviey> python-carrot promotion is currently on hold, as we are hoping to replace it with python-kombu which is requiring ongoing work in upstream.
<Daviey> We also have an initial armel cloud image, which is undergoing testing (HINT: it doesn't yet work)..  but it is there, and a reproducible build (added complexity).
<Daviey> eucalyptus (now universe) is currently in a poor state, with nobody seemingly actively working on it.  Upgrade path from natty is currently concerning.
<Daviey> Bugs we are currently tracking for Oneiric release. (Including FFe's, FTBFS's, MIR's and general bugs)
<Daviey> http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html
<Daviey> Burndown overview looks a little off par, but i believe it became out of date this week - we are working to fix the status now.
<Daviey> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/group/topic-oneiric-server-overview.html
<Daviey> (As ever, if there are any I am not tracking, please raise them either now or as soon as possible).
<Daviey> There are still some FFe bugs which need raising, and they are being addresses as soon as possible.
<Daviey> Thanks!
<Daviey> ...
<skaet> Thanks Daviey!    Will look into those links a bit more after the meeting.
<skaet> anyone have questions right now for Daviey?
<tumbleweed> Daviey: any response with getting kombu in thorugh debian?
<Daviey> tumbleweed: That is entirely blocked on ampqlib >1.0 which is a depends
<tumbleweed> ah, right
<Daviey> That needs resolving in Ubuntu & Debian before that can happen.
<ScottK> skaet: Here now.
<Daviey> tumbleweed: Don't worry, we will push back :)
<skaet> ScottK,  coolio.  ok, will have you go next before we wrap up.
<tumbleweed> Daviey: I promised to help out on the debian side in the FFe bug, but just hadn't seen any activity
<Daviey> tumbleweed: Yeah, wanted to get the the depends resolved first.
<Daviey> tumbleweed: Appreciate your offer to help.. will keep you posted!
<tumbleweed> np, thanks
<tumbleweed> ..
<skaet> [TOPIC] Kubuntu Team update - ScottK
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Kubuntu Team update - ScottK
<meetingology> TOPIC: Kubuntu Team update - ScottK
<ScottK> Hello.
<ScottK> Currently working through FTBFS from the rebuild test and looking at how much plasma-active work it's reasonable to land post FF.
<ScottK> I expect a couple of FFes for that resolved in the next few days.
<ScottK> No major issues to report.
<ScottK> ..
<skaet> Thanks ScottK!
<skaet> There are some bugs from the A3 ISO testing that are still marked as new with no priority set.   Have the ones on the agenda been looked at?
<skaet> Bug:820384
<Daviey> bug 820384
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 820384 in akonadi (Ubuntu) "akonadi_agent_launcher crashed with SIGSEGV" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/820384
<skaet> Bug 820591
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 820591 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Logging out of the live session of kubuntu prompts to "abort active sessions"" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/820591
<skaet> ^^ has a kde_workspace task that is the one I'm wondering about.
 * ScottK looks
<skaet> ScottK,  thanks.   we can follow up after the meeting then.
<ScottK> skaet: As it says in the bug, I think the question is if Ubiquity can do anything.
<ScottK> From a KDE perspective it's working as designed.
<ScottK> OK.
<skaet> [TOPIC] Any other business?  - all
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Any other business?  - all
<meetingology> TOPIC: Any other business?  - all
<skaet> Events approaching:
<skaet> BetaFreeze: Aug 25, 2011 at 2100 UTC.
<skaet> UserInterfaceFreeze: August 25, 2011 at 2100 UTC.
<skaet> Beta 1: Sept 1, 2011.
<skaet> ..
<skaet> anyone else?
<micahg> o/
<skaet> go micahg
<micahg> just wanted to say, that eclipse is currently broken, so it'll probably be after beta1 before it's ready
<micahg> ..
<skaet> thanks for flagging micahg,  release note time then it seems.
<skaet> anyone else?
<micahg> well, I mean 3.7 is broken, idk about 3.5 in oneiric
<skaet> ah,  didn't understand the context.  Thanks for clarifying.
<skaet> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology is the new Mootbot https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot
<meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Aug 19 16:27:56 2011 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot . (v 0.1.4)
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-08-19-15.01.moin.txt
<skaet> Thanks mlegris, jdstrand, ogasawara, cjwatson, ogra_, fabo, pitti, dbarth, stgraber, Daviey, tumbleweed, gilir, charlie-tca, ScottK, micahg
<stgraber> thanks skaet
<pitti> thanks all
<skaet> thanks jibel
<jdstrand> thanks skaet
<jibel> thanks skaet
<charlie-tca> Thanks, skaet
<ScottK> tumbleweed: re dh_python2 transitions, I think we need a mail to u-d-a saying toolchain redesign (e.g. dh_python2 or cdbs -> dh) changes should have FFe.
<tumbleweed> ScottK: yeah, agreed
<ScottK> Care to write it?
<tumbleweed> heh, sure
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-08-13
<smartboyhw> Ubuntu Studio Contributors Meeting starting in 5 minutes.
<smartboyhw> Please o/ if you are here
<stochastic> hi
<smartboyhw> Hello.
<smartboyhw> The problem is no one
<smartboyhw> is here
<smartboyhw> I will wait for 5 - 10 minutes
<stochastic> okay
<smartboyhw> Please o/ if you are joining the Ubuntu studio meeting
<stochastic> smartboyhw, did the meeting time get agreed upon by a group of people at any point?
<smartboyhw> Yep, on Thursday
<stochastic> who all said they could come?
<smartboyhw> God, the problem is NO ONE"S HERE
<raju> hmm
<smartboyhw> Oh hi raju
<raju> smartboyhw,  waiting for someone
<smartboyhw> astraljava
<smartboyhw> scott-work
<smartboyhw> holstein
<smartboyhw> ailo
<stochastic> smartboyhw, are you chair of the meeting?
<smartboyhw> Yep
<smartboyhw> I called the meeting
<smartboyhw> They agreed
<smartboyhw> I added it to the calendar
<stochastic> is this the agenda we're following: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Meetings/2012August13
<smartboyhw> YEP!
<smartboyhw> astraljava said he'd come
<stochastic> sometimes people sleep in/get busy/forget/etc...  things happen
<stochastic> I don't see much in the agenda for topics
<smartboyhw> I will issue a very angry letter to the dev mailing list about it
<stochastic> why so much anger smartboyhw
<smartboyhw> stochastic: What do you think?
<Len-nb> That is a good question
<smartboyhw> Oh hi Len-nb
<smartboyhw> Len-nb: Are you Len-dt?
<stochastic> So I see that we're about to hit feature freeze on quantal
<Len-nb> on a different machine yes
<Len-nb> It would be nice if we could actually get the changes we have madereleased.
<smartboyhw> Good
<smartboyhw> Should we start the meeting
<smartboyhw> ?
<stochastic> Len-nb, is there a list of changes that need to get pushed or addressed?
<stochastic> smartboyhw, yes please
<Len-nb> there are 4 or 5 packages that have commits that need releasing.
<smartboyhw> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Aug 13 14:13:03 2012 UTC.  The chair is smartboyhw. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<smartboyhw> Okay, hi
<stochastic> hi
<smartboyhw> #topic Report on Ubuntu Studio
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Report on Ubuntu Studio
<stochastic> hi holstein
<smartboyhw> If anyone had anything to say about Ubuntu Studio development or progress, please o/
<holstein> stochastic: \o/
<holstein> o/
<smartboyhw> holstein: PLease
<smartboyhw> holstein: Go ahead
<holstein> i was just saying im present... if Len-nb has something, that would be relavant
* holstein changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<stochastic> Len-nb, you were saying about the commits that need pushing?
<stochastic> before FF hits
<smartboyhw> len-nb: Are you here?
<Len-nb> -look -settings and the seeds/metas need to get done too.
<Len-nb> takes time to type smartboyhw
<smartboyhw> Sorry
<smartboyhw> You haven't o/ed
<stochastic> o/
<smartboyhw> Please, stochastic
<Len-nb> I had thought there was another but it is for 12.04.1 and it looks it won't get used.
 * stochastic doesn't understand the o/ system
 * Len-nb too
<smartboyhw> o/ in first sight means that you are present
<smartboyhw> o/ now means you want to bring up a topic
<smartboyhw> ..
<holstein> smartboyhw: re-link the meeting agenda, and lets go from there
<Len-nb> stochastic, the seeds to meta stuff seems to not work acourding to micahg. He will work on it when time permits
<holstein> we can see if Len-nb has time to report on progress today, and try and give ScottL time to show
<stochastic> michag only has 10 days before FF
<holstein> Len-nb: is that in 12.10?.. how about 12.04.1 or whatever... is that all good?
<smartboyhw> So guys, do you think we can meet the 23/8 schedule of releasing Ubuntu Studio 12.04.1?
<Len-nb> holstein, as far as I know we are not really doing anything for 04.1
<holstein> Len-nb: hopefully, its just a matter of testing... and i think some folks were testing for US
<holstein> i know the xubuntu team always helps US out
<smartboyhw> Yep, just finished testing 12.04.1 image for 64-bit
<smartboyhw> Reported on ISO QA Tracker
<holstein> smartboyhw: cool.. thanks... i think thats all we'll have to do for 12.04
<Len-nb> There is a -settings commited that could be used tha fixes minor menu details, but Scott doesn't seem enthused
<Len-nb> I have done a few 12.04.1 i386 tests too
<smartboyhw> Len-nb does 32-bit, me does 64-bit
<stochastic> excellent, so I think we should make a motion to push for image testers for 12.04.1 just to make sure everything is all good.  A call on the mailing list or something similar
<Len-nb> second
<smartboyhw> Len-nb: You know astraljava took over coordination of testing?
<holstein> i have done some unofficial FW tests with ailo
<smartboyhw> #action Len-nb and smartboyhw to find more people to test 12.04.1 daily images
<meetingology> ACTION: Len-nb and smartboyhw to find more people to test 12.04.1 daily images
<Len-nb> FW = ?
<holstein> yeah... just an email letting everyone know testing is needed...
<holstein> Len-nb: firewire
<Len-nb> Ah! right
<stochastic> holstein, how'd they turn out?
<holstein> stochastic: so far so good... im actually still personally running 10.04 on my production machine, but i will upgrade to 12.04 when i have time
<Len-nb> I still miss gcdmaster
<stochastic> Ok, I think busniess for 12.04.1 is sorted as much as we can for now
<holstein> stochastic: seems better all the time actually.. especially without the *-realtime kernel.. i find that less and less manditory
<holstein> Len-nb: me too :/
<stochastic> or should we discuss release announcement for 12.04.1?  Is one needed?
<Len-nb> stochastic, on the website when released
<holstein> stochastic: i think someone should mention it to scottL, and one of us can offer to help make on if needed
<smartboyhw> stochastic: Let us write an email to users list
<Len-nb> The main thing with 12.04.1 is it save upgrading about 200 packages at install for late adopters
<stochastic> someone with knowledge of the changes between 12.04 and 12.04.1 needs to draft a couple explanation notes
<holstein> stochastic: maybe we could just look at the main ubuntu ones and copy/edit a bit
<smartboyhw> Question: Who has that knowledge?
<holstein> or xubuntu...
<stochastic> ok
<Len-nb> holstein, you have it right
<holstein> i bet the xubuntu ones are pretty much exactly ours... since we didnt change any studio specific stuff
<smartboyhw> So we can transfer Xubuntu to Ubuntu Studio!
<Len-nb> I am not if they made changes either, vanilla may cover it.
<stochastic> I'll volunteer to draft one up for us and post it.
<smartboyhw> stochastic: I agree
<Len-nb> the big thing is xfce4.10 which 12.10
<smartboyhw> #action: stochastic to write a draft for changes between 12.04 and 12.04.1
<meetingology> ACTION: : stochastic to write a draft for changes between 12.04 and 12.04.1
<stochastic> so on to 12.10 chat, any big things need squishing before FF?  let's get at least one action item hammered out for 12.10
<Len-nb> firefox branding, publishing meta
<Len-nb> Hmm, the people I need to ask are not here
<stochastic> holstein, do you have upload privileges?
<holstein> stochastic: to the site? i dont think so... but ScottL does ...i havnet checked to see if my old creds work on the official site
<holstein> stochastic: i'll help sort that out though...
<smartboyhw> holstein: Thanks
<stochastic> holstein, not to the site, I have those, I mean to the repos?
<stochastic> to help push commits through
<holstein> stochastic: nah... that would be scott or one of the motu's... i think we can just ask someone for help
<stochastic> persia is usually pretty good at helping out, also TheMuso
<smartboyhw> Who should we select?
<stochastic> Len-nb, can you talk to those gents to see if you can get the commits published?
<holstein> yup... if we put the word out, i think we can get a hand.. let me know if you need help tracking someone down stochastic
<Len-nb> I will try that
<stochastic> excellent, sounds like an action item
<smartboyhw> So what should we write for action?
<smartboyhw> #action holstein and Len-nb to find someone to publishing committs
<meetingology> ACTION: holstein and Len-nb to find someone to publishing committs
<smartboyhw> Anyone saw the action item? So many people quit
<holstein> smartboyhw: netsplit
<stochastic> please post the action item again
<smartboyhw> #action holstein and Len-dt to find someone for pushing commits
<meetingology> ACTION: holstein and Len-dt to find someone for pushing commits
<smartboyhw> Is this one OK?
<stochastic> The firefox branding, where are we on that, is a fix committed?
<stochastic> smartboyhw, looks great
<smartboyhw> Thanks, stochastic
<Len-nb> I need to find out if I should do more or less.
<Len-nb> so far I have home page. but that will have to come off.
<Len-nb> I have bookmarked our site
<smartboyhw> Len-nb: Nice job!
<Len-nb> but the blueprints seem to suggest more bookmarks
<stochastic> baby steps are still good steps :)
<smartboyhw> Maybe we can bookmark Wiki pages and how to contribute?
<stochastic> I'd be happy to chat after the meeting with you Len about the intricacies of the branding?
<Len-nb> I can commit what I have or add more. xchat is stuck right now
<smartboyhw> Uh oh, Len-nb.
<Len-nb> I may just add a menu item that starts xchat on #ubuntustudio
<smartboyhw> #ubuntustudio-devel also
<Len-nb> No
<smartboyhw> OK
<stochastic> dev is for active volunteers
<smartboyhw> Ok, so only #ubuntustudio
<Len-nb> This would be right below the help item
<smartboyhw> #action: Len-nb to add menu item on xchat that starts #ubuntustudio
<meetingology> ACTION: : Len-nb to add menu item on xchat that starts #ubuntustudio
<stochastic> cool
<Len-nb> I think it will use the studio logo
<smartboyhw> It should
<stochastic> ok
<stochastic> what other major projects are we looking at in the next 10 days?
<smartboyhw> Major...Hmm...
<Len-nb> There is a new publishing meta.
<stochastic> or minor
<stochastic> have all the packages been screened/approved or is it just a rough draft still?
<Len-nb> I was just looking at our web page and it suggests we are shipping libreoffice
<smartboyhw> Len-nb: I agree we should ship it.
<Len-nb> I have not added office to the meta
<smartboyhw> So... ?
<Len-nb> It is quite large
<holstein> i could argue we shouldnt, but im with you guys
<holstein> its a full featured suite of tools that does not directly address anything ubuntustudio is about
<smartboyhw> So, action item on adding LibreOffice to Ubuutu Studio?
<Len-nb> The is an icon for extra software that maks it easy to load
<Len-nb> no ... or not yet
<smartboyhw> OK, so maybe we can ship it in future 12.10 releases...
<stochastic> Len-nb is there a package list I can take a look at?
<Len-nb> I am thinking maybe the website should be changed
<stochastic> which website page?
<smartboyhw> ubuntustudio.org?
<Len-nb> feature tour
<Len-nb> publishing
<smartboyhw> OK
<holstein> i remember arguing about libreoffice though...
<smartboyhw> So no LibreOffice or so?
<holstein> seems like it might be that it is supposed to be there
<Len-nb> I'll ask scott
<holstein> i would run it by ScottL first...
<smartboyhw> Ok
<holstein> i will go with whatever you guys go with...
<smartboyhw> So what's the action item for this?
<stochastic> Len-nb, right at the top of the feature tour page it reads "Allthough not everything is preinstalled, powerful tools for book publishing are at your fingertips, installable from the repo using Software Center."
<Len-nb> The other app mentioned is calibre
<smartboyhw> OK
<Len-nb> Ok, I will not worry about office then
<stochastic> I don't think Calibre or LibreOffice should be shipped
<smartboyhw> So, ignore LibreOffice?
<stochastic> personally
<smartboyhw> Action Item: Ignore office software?
<stochastic> is there a publishing meta that is being created for this release?
<Len-nb> Right. Ok, I think we worked out the workflow pretty good on the list
<Len-nb> It is commited
<Len-nb> Photography has been split and commited
<stochastic> ok
<Len-nb> so two new metas
<smartboyhw> GREAT!
<stochastic> so this falls under the pushing commits through subject that we already covered with the action item
<stochastic> :)
<smartboyhw> Action Item?
<Len-nb> Yup.
<smartboyhw> What should we write?
<holstein> asking scottL about libreoffice
<stochastic> smartboyhw, we already covered this meetingology> ACTION: holstein and Len-nb to find someone to publishing committs
<Len-nb> scott and ailo also have some workflow stuff they are working on for the bottom panel
<holstein> stochastic: i could go there too.. i think they dont fit in.. but i remember someone convincing me on the issue of publishing
<smartboyhw> Oh, that one
<smartboyhw> Anything more to say apart from this?
<smartboyhw> Anyone have more to say?
<stochastic> I'd like to say that I think the overall direction of graphics and publishing should be given someone to take the reigns.  Maybe not now.
<stochastic> maybe there already is
<holstein> stochastic: you mean, a team member who is into grahpis?
<holstein> graphics*
<smartboyhw> On stochastic's question, any volunteers?
<stochastic> or has a solid concept of where US should help publishers and graphic artists
<holstein> i think we have a lot of audio folks, and thats great, but it would be nice to cultivate a person or 2 for graphics and/or video
<stochastic> is troy_s ever around anymore?
<holstein> someone to come here like we are and say what works and what doesnt and why
<smartboyhw> Who will do graphics and video publishing?
<holstein> stochastic: havent seen him in a while
<stochastic> or Corey?
<Len-nb> Having the apps to make US interesting to these people may come first
<smartboyhw> Len-nb: I agree
<stochastic> agreed
<holstein> i think someone will materialize... ScottL does a lot of video actually
<stochastic> I can help slightly in the future with this planning
<stochastic> maybe not in the next 10 days
<smartboyhw> Maybe we should send a request along teh dev mail list for volunteers of helping graphics and video
<holstein> stochastic: i think that email needs to be well thought out
<Len-nb> Been done... in various ways
<holstein> some folks dont come to the IRC...
<holstein> stochastic: that was for smartboyhw ^^
<smartboyhw> That e-mail will be a job advertisement:)
<holstein> just be careful how you "ask" for help... we dont need more differing opinions, and folks doing work that we cant include.. we really need one person to "take the reigns" as stochastic suggested
<Len-nb> Part of the reason I am hesitant to add much more SW right now, is that I would like to see how big The ISO
<smartboyhw> OK
<smartboyhw> Len-nb: Make it under 2GB
<Len-nb> Too late already
<holstein> its over 2 now... and we have lots of "why dont we have this" emails on the list
<stochastic> Len-nb let's not add too much on this release, just get the ball moving
<smartboyhw> Make it under 4.7GiB (DVD capacity)
<smartboyhw> stochastic: +1
<holstein> swsure, but folks with limited bandwidth complain
<holstein> smartboyhw: ^
<holstein> you literally cant please everyone
<Len-nb> I am thinking If the seeds/metas get updated I will be able to see where we are
<holstein> i like the workflows idea.. a nice comfortable default, and you can click on "publishing" and install whatever is designated automagically
<Len-nb> scott was talking about adding kdenlive... but I am not sure... and knowing how big we are now would help
<smartboyhw> yeah, we are a small team
<Len-nb> holstein, that needs a ubiquity plugin
<stochastic> okay, for an action item, how about a graphics/publishing sub-committee is formed to polish the current release and shape the 13.04 release plan for these metas
<holstein> Len-nb: could be after the install, for all i care
<smartboyhw> stochastic: I agree. Everyone: Agree?
<smartboyhw> who will be in that sub-commitee?
<holstein> yeah.. i think thats a great goal
<stochastic> I'll join
<Len-nb> There is the live experience to look at
<holstein> gives some time for someone to step up
<smartboyhw> I'll join too
<Len-nb> I would use the list to set it up
<smartboyhw> Who's the chair of the sub-committee for now?
<stochastic> we'll sort out the members later, including the chair, we just need to have someone willing to organize the people interested
<smartboyhw> OK, so action item:
<smartboyhw> #action : stochastic and Len-nb and holstein and smartboyhw to set up a graphics and publishing sub-committee for teh abovementioned metas
<meetingology> ACTION: : stochastic and Len-nb and holstein and smartboyhw to set up a graphics and publishing sub-committee for teh abovementioned metas
<holstein> i think any of us can help shape that
<smartboyhw> Yep
<smartboyhw> So, anymore to say, guys?
<stochastic> I think we covered most things that need attention over the near future
<stochastic> and the meeting is starting to hit the 60min mark
<Len-nb> done
<smartboyhw> Good, so end meeting, everyone? o/ to agree
<stochastic> o?
<stochastic> o/
<Len-nb> o/
<smartboyhw> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Aug 13 15:10:28 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-13-14.13.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-13-14.13.html
<smartboyhw> Thanks everybody!
<stochastic> thanks smartboyhw for organizing this
<smartboyhw> Thansk stochastic, Len-nb, holstein
<holstein> thanks all!
<smartboyhw> Thanks!
<jjohansen> \o
<jdstrand> hi!
<tyhicks`> hello
<mdeslaur> \o
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Aug 13 18:02:50 2012 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> Thanks to the following individuals:
<jdstrand> Scott Kitterman (ScottK) provided a debdiff for precise for Calligra (LP: #1032934)
<jdstrand> Your work is very much appreciated and will keep Ubuntu users secure. Great job! :)
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I'm doing triage this week
<jdstrand> I'm working on an embargoed issue
<jdstrand> I'd like to finish the ever exanding list of MIR audits
<jdstrand> I'd like to say I am hopeful, but quite a few got piled on last week
<jdstrand> recruiting continues
<jdstrand> and hopefully I'll get back to updates
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm in the happy place this week
<mdeslaur> I'm about to publish libreoffice/openoffice updates
<mdeslaur> and since feature freeze is in a week and a half, I want to continue working on my apport apparmor work items
<mdeslaur> to try and get that in before then
<mdeslaur> if I have time, I'll pick something else off the list
<mdeslaur> that's it for me
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up
<sbeattie> I'm on community this week
<sbeattie> (It'll be a bit of a short week as I'm off Friday)
<mdeslaur> oh, I'm off friday too
<sbeattie> I'm trying to get out from under my email backlog after being gone last week
<sbeattie> I need to get on top of my apparmor work items and resurrect the updates I was working on before my holiday (libgc, openstack)
<sbeattie> I think that's it for me.
<sbeattie> micahg: you're up
<micahg> still working on webkit, and piloting today
<micahg> ran into a few bumps with various things that I might try to debug (not strictly security related)
<micahg> and more mozilla pre-testing
<micahg> that's it
<micahg> tyhicks: you're up
<tyhicks> I'm in the happy place and have a short week this week (only working today and tomorrow)
<tyhicks> I'm working on the xmlrpc-c update, but I doubt it will go out this week
<tyhicks> I also have a few loose ends to tie up (triage of a new bug report and a patch that I need to merge) on the eCryptfs mailing list before Wednesday
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> well I will be coordinating with sbeattie on some of his apparmor WIs. I have several bugs to track down and fix so I can actually push out the latest queue of patches with the locking rework, and I hope to pick off some of the smaller, WIs this week like enabling basic netlink socket mediation
<jjohansen> jdstrand: back to you
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Securi
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libspring-java.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/mpop.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libfcgi-perl.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/xpdf.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/snort.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> There are a lot of merge opportunities for packages listed in http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/d2u/. Performing these updates is a great way to help Ubuntu and bolster your developer application.
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<mdeslaur> I do
<mdeslaur> sbeattie, jdstrand, tyhicks, jjohansen: since it's feature freeze next week, please prioritize work items that can actually be done this week
<mdeslaur> I mean, that need to go in before feature freeze
<mdeslaur> if there's anything that you can't do this week that needs to go in before feature freeze, please let me know
<mdeslaur> so we can either postpone, or start thinking about a FFe
<mdeslaur> whoops, micahg too ^
<jdstrand> ack
<micahg> mdeslaur: I don't think I have an WI tied to the release that involve features
<mdeslaur> cool.
<mdeslaur> and now, back to Jamie:
<jdstrand> anything else people would like to discuss?
<jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, micahg, tyhicks, jjohansen: thanks!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Aug 13 18:21:07 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-13-18.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-13-18.02.html
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand
<tyhicks> thanks
<jjohansen> thanks jdstrand
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks!
<micahg> thanks jdstrand
<bdrung> !dmb-ping
<ubottu> bdrung, cody-somerville, Laney, micahg, barry, tumbleweed, stgraber: DMB ping
<bdrung> meeting in one minute!
 * stgraber waves
<dupondje> Evening!
<tumbleweed> hi
 * barry waves
 * micahg is here
 * dupondje to
<bdrung> where is our chair cody-somerville?
<micahg> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Aug 13 19:09:33 2012 UTC.  The chair is micahg. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<micahg> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review of previous action items
<micahg> #subtopic micahg to document the zentyal packageset
<micahg> carried
<micahg> #subtopic micahg to ping beuno regarding CC discussion on whether upload rights should confer membership
<micahg> this is now yokozar who agreed to start the discussion, so done
<micahg> #subtopic tumbleweed to contact ubuntu developers who haven't signed the CoC
<tumbleweed> contacted
<tumbleweed> no reply from scott
<micahg> right, so should we discuss at the end what to do about this?
<tumbleweed> sounds good
<micahg> moving on
<stgraber> sure, though I can only thing of one thing we can do...
<stgraber> *think
<micahg> #topic MOTU application for Jean-Louis Dupond
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: MOTU application for Jean-Louis Dupond
<dupondje> Approved ;)
<dupondje> You can view my application on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JeanLouisDupond/MOTUApplication
<dupondje> Been active quite some time for Ubuntu, and a daily user.
<dupondje> Doing merges/syncs mostly, and also cryptsetup/remmina maintainer upstream (debian)
<micahg> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JeanLouisDupond/MOTUApplication
<dupondje> And i'm working on Ubuntu when I have some spare time, so sometimes alot, sometimes a bit less :'(
 * xnox lurks in due to highlight on cryptsetup
<dupondje> hello xnox  :)
<stgraber> dupondje: are you subscribed to ubuntu-devel-announce?
 * xnox has a question for the candidate. 0/
<dupondje> And there is still much work todo on MOTU (https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html)
<dupondje> stgraber: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2012-August/000381.html
<dupondje> but not subscribed indeed
<stgraber> dupondje: I said ubuntu-devel-announce, not devel-permissions :)
<dupondje> i'm not no
<stgraber> ok, please make sure you're subscribed to it and read it daily
<stgraber> that's where the freeze announcements are announced, anyone who intends to upload to the archive should be reading it
<dupondje> Not much traffic on it it seems :)
<stgraber> indeed, it's low but very important traffic
<dupondje> Your subscription request has been received, done!
<stgraber> good
<stgraber> now, an hopefully quick other question
<dupondje> i'm open for it :)
<stgraber> let's say you're for some reason working on python-gevent
<stgraber> it's on the 4th of september
<stgraber> and your upload is a non critical bugfix
<bdrung> dupondje: image you want to upload vlc on September, 1st. are you allowed to do that?
<stgraber> assuming, you're a MOTU by then, will you be able to upload it?
<stgraber> bdrung: I see some overlap between our questions ;)
 * bdrung nods.
<dupondje> bdrung: no, gotto ask permission first (and only bugfix releases (normally))
<bdrung> dupondje: assume that it's just a bug fix. permission for what?
<dupondje> stgraber: think a non-critical is not wanted, if its critical, I could consider asking the release team
<stgraber> dupondje: ok, why?
<dupondje> If the patch is small (and doesn't change any functionallity/api or break other things) its fine
<stgraber> actually, it's not, now guess why :)
<dupondje> stgraber: in general or for the python-gevent?
<dupondje> :)
<stgraber> in this case, python-gevent :)
<stgraber> though the same applies to vlc, as bdrung's question touches the same problematic
 * stgraber shuts up now, that's way enough hints ;)
<stgraber> right, so we need to move on with the questions.
<stgraber> the answer to both bdrung and my questions is that we're in a freeze period at that point
<stgraber> and python-gevent is a dependency of python-x2go which is seeded by Edubuntu and so is covered by the freeze even if it's in universe
 * dupondje checked https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeatureFreeze
<stgraber> same thing for vlc that's part of mythbuntu
<stgraber> so these packages should only be touched with approval of the product manager and/or release team during the freeze periods
<stgraber> which are anonunced on ubuntu-devel-announce (hence the need to subscribe and read it)
<dupondje> Ok :) That was not very clear after reading https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeatureFreeze
<micahg> dupondje: Feature Freeze != Milestone freeze
<stgraber> right, milestone freeze is completely different from feature freeze
<stgraber> and is also valid for alpha releases way before we get into feature freeze
<micahg> dupondje: you mention that you don't like the dev cycle since the whole cycle isn't available to do syncs/merges, how do you propose that the distro stabilize for a release?
<dupondje> milestone freeze is announced on the devel-announce, so I keep an eye on that
<barry> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MilestoneProcess
<dupondje> micahg: I think the way debian does it is a nice option
<micahg> dupondje: Debian freezes for 6 months :)
<bdrung> (or more)
<dupondje> true, but advanced users can use the devel version (aka testing)
<bdrung> advanced users are not the main target of ubuntu
<micahg> testing (which is the next release) is what's frozen for months on end
<dupondje> well yea, but there should be a 'rolling version', where everything gets in after some testing
<micahg> dupondje: well, we do have the option for backports if we ever start opening that post feature freeze for things that qualify
<dupondje> but its indeed not the focus of ubuntu. Which isn't a problem ofcourse :)
<bdrung> dupondje: our 'rolling version' is currently called 'quantal' ;)
<dupondje> thats what i'm using atm :)
<dupondje> with almost no issues in fact
<dupondje> Its nice to see new stuff gets added, and everything is moving. But near to the release its getting a bit 'boring' :)
<dupondje> maby the next version should be started before the release of the next version (so it overlaps a bit)
<dupondje> cause now its perferred to do syncs/merges in the early dev stage :)
<dupondje> But a perfect solutions for everybody is indeed not possible :)
<micahg> dupondje: you do realize the intent of new uploads is to provide the best user experience, not be not-boring, right?
<dupondje> Its ofcourse most important that the release version is stable and gives a good user experience
<dupondje> but I also think some people prefer bleeding edge :)
<bdrung> dupondje: would it make sense to upload audacity 2.0.2 RC1 to quantal?
<dupondje> I think its preferred to stay in sync with debian, also better stay with stable releases (no beta/rc) if there is not a good reason
<micahg> xnox: did you have a quesiton?
<bdrung> dupondje: imagine that i upload audacity 2.0.2 RC1 to debian. should i do the sync?
<bdrung> dupondje: which are good reasons to upload beta/rc packages?
<dupondje> If the release of the stable version is soon (before ff), and if it fixes quite soms bugs :)
 * bdrung nods.
<bdrung> xnox: you can ask your question now.
<micahg> well, RCs could also be useful if the final version is after feature freeze, but the upstream release is feature frozen and they keep to their timetables well enough to ensure a release before final freeze
<dupondje> alot of projects doesn't have a strict timetable tho :)
<bdrung> dupondje: they can be judged by their previous releases.
<micahg> see why we have Xfce 4.8 in precise :)
 * dupondje is still using gnome-shell
<dupondje> feeling quite alone these days :)
<micahg> #voters barry tumbleweed Laney cody-somerville micahg stgraber bdrung
<meetingology> Current voters: Laney barry bdrung cody-somerville micahg stgraber tumbleweed
<micahg> #vote Grant MOTU upload rights to dupondje
<meetingology> Please vote on: Grant MOTU upload rights to dupondje
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<bdrung> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bdrung
<dupondje> and if I doubt on something, i'll stalk you guys in #ubuntu-motu :)
<stgraber> -1 [ I appreciate the technical skills and I'm not worried about that side of things. But I want to see more knowledge about the ubuntu release process before giving a +1 ]
<meetingology> -1 [ I appreciate the technical skills and I'm not worried about that side of things. But I want to see more knowledge about the ubuntu release process before giving a +1 ] received from stgraber
<dupondje> np
<barry> +0 [ for similar reasons ]
<meetingology> +0 [ for similar reasons ] received from barry
<micahg> +0 what stgraber said
<meetingology> +0 what stgraber said received from micahg
<tumbleweed> +0 [ I a also would like to see more knowledge of the release processes ]
<meetingology> +0 [ I a also would like to see more knowledge of the release processes ] received from tumbleweed
<micahg> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Grant MOTU upload rights to dupondje
<meetingology> Votes for:1 Votes against:1 Abstentions:3
<meetingology> Deadlock, casting vote may be used
<bdrung> with the two remaining members +4 can't be reached any more.
<micahg> dupondje: sorry that we weren't able to grant this today, but please come back in a few months, you've done good work
<dupondje> ok np
<bdrung> dupondje: btw, it's good to see a good collaboration with debian
<dupondje> I keep it up :) and will read some more about the release process. Also I keep subscribed to the deval-announce :)
<bdrung> *devel-announce ;)
<dupondje> well yea :)
<tumbleweed> given the feature freeze coming up, there's lots of opportunity to see the process in action :)
<dupondje> bdrung: keeping the delta 0 is gives us less work :)
<bdrung> dupondje: i totally agree
<dupondje> and the debian guys are also happy their bugs gets fixed :)
<dupondje> and fixing the things in upstream (not debian, but the devel itself) is even better :)
<micahg> ok, moving on
<micahg> #topic what to do when uploaders no longer have the CoC signed
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: what to do when uploaders no longer have the CoC signed
<micahg> so, as stgraber said, there seems to be only one course of action once they've been notified and given a chance to correct this, remove their upload rights until the sign the CoC
 * bdrung agrees
<tumbleweed> as scott isn't using his upload rights, we also have the option of just ignoring it
<stgraber> +1
<stgraber> well, as he's not using it anyway, we might as well remove it :)
<tumbleweed> quite
 * xnox will poke ev to poke scott about it =)
<micahg> ok, I think we can dispense with the formal vote here
 * xnox just as another thing to make fun of =)
<tumbleweed> stgraber: have we dealt with all the inconsistencies that your report picked up?
<stgraber> tumbleweed: all but the langpack team
<stgraber> oh and I still need to cleanup coredev/motu duplicate package set rights
<micahg> #action remove scott from ubuntu-core-dev until he signs the CoC
<meetingology> ACTION: remove scott from ubuntu-core-dev until he signs the CoC
<tumbleweed> do I need to roll any of this into the membership check e-mail?
<micahg> #action stgraber to clean up coredev/motu duplicate package set rights
<meetingology> ACTION: stgraber to clean up coredev/motu duplicate package set rights
<micahg> #topic aob
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: aob
<stgraber> tumbleweed: I don't think so, I can check from time to time but it shouldn't get any worse as long as we don't screw up ;)
<stgraber> it's really the historic stuff that's a bit of a mess, I think that all additions have been sane
<micahg> yeah, as long as we see who's expired, we just need to follow up on that
<tumbleweed> well, that's the main purpose of the weekly e-mail
<micahg> I think that's a wrap then
<tumbleweed> do we want to discuss scrapping any packagesets?
<micahg> tumbleweed: oh, we could I guess
<tumbleweed> I suppose the thing to do here is contact uploaders of packagesets that we don't think are used
<micahg> sounds good, want an action?
<tumbleweed> sure, I'll take it (pity Laney isn't here)
<micahg> tumbleweed: we have the option to voluntold :)
<tumbleweed> let's try that first. he seemed keenest
<micahg> #action laney (tumbleweed) to contact the uploaders of unused packagesets
<meetingology> ACTION: laney (tumbleweed) to contact the uploaders of unused packagesets
<tumbleweed> ok, i've had enough of this meeting, and want to go to bed
<micahg> #action next chair: cody-somerville (laney)
<meetingology> ACTION: next chair: cody-somerville (laney)
<micahg> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Aug 13 20:29:55 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-13-19.09.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-13-19.09.html
<barry> micahg: thanks!
<micahg> thanks for coming everyone
<stgraber> tumbleweed: good night!
<stgraber> micahg: thanks!
<micahg> night tumbleweed
<tumbleweed> thanks :)
<tumbleweed> still recovering from flu. after a day at work, I'm totally exhausted and not much use any more :/
<bdrung> tumbleweed: get well soon! hopefully the flu cannot spread via IP ;)
<micahg> IP bird flu :) http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1149
<bdrung> :D
<xnox> 878507
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-08-14
<jamespage> gema: all set?
<gema> jamespage: yes
<jamespage> +1
<gema> jamespage: I don't have anything too formal, but I have the facts together
<jamespage> thats good
<smartboyhw> Excuse me, what's this meeting?
<jamespage> smartboyhw, ubuntu server team meeting
<smartboyhw> OK, thanks
<smoser> o/
<arosales> hello
<smoser> meeting starting in < 60 seconds here... just
<jimbaker> hi
<jamespage> o/
<adam_g> o/
<smoser> #startmeeting Ubuntu Server Team Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Aug 14 16:02:50 2012 UTC.  The chair is smoser. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:
<smoser> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<smoser> #TOPIC Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<smoser> looks like none
<smoser> woohoo
<smoser> #topic Quantal Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Quantal Development
<smoser> arosales, ? Daviey ?
<arosales> smoser: may I go over some bps?
<smoser> as long as you dont mention my deliquency
<smoser> or my spelling.
<arosales> we'll see :-)
<arosales> so looking @ http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-quantal/group/topic-quantal-servercloud-overview.html
<arosales> we are just past the half way point of the cycle
<arosales> overall for ubuntu server blueprints for this cycle we are at 42%
<arosales> so in the red, but not super far behind
<arosales> I'd like to hit some of the high/essentials that are in the red to see how we are doing
<arosales> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-openstack-qa
<arosales> zul: you seem to be making pretty good progress there
<arosales> feel ok for beta1?
<Daviey> over the moon.
<zul> yay!
<arosales> :-)
<arosales> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-openstack-folsom
<arosales> also tracking ok for beta1?
<arosales> zul, Daviey ^
<zul> yeah looks ok
<smartboyhw> arosales: PLease see my PM
<arosales> along with https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-openstack-stable
<zul> that one is not for quantal :)
<arosales> zul servercloud-q-openstack-stable isn't?
<arosales> jamespage: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-server-iso-tests-review tracking ok ?
<jamespage> hmm - OK ish
<arosales> jamespage: ok
<jamespage> hoping to re-inject some vigour into that one after gema's update today
<arosales> also need to follow up on the reports for https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-server-iso-tests-review
<arosales> Ursinha: ^
<arosales> hallyn: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-userns progressing ok?
<Ursinha> arosales, I have reports I have to show you all :)
<arosales> Ursinha: ah great, thanks :-)
<jamespage> \o/
<hallyn> arosales: that'll be going into r, but it's in progress right now yes
<arosales> Spamaps: m_3: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-juju-charms-release-policy progressing ok
<arosales> hallyn: thanks
<m_3> arosales: several juju/charm blueprints need some love... they're pretty outta date
<arosales> m_3: ok
<arosales> I think andres is out this week
<arosales> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-openstack-ha
<arosales> so we'll catch HA on openstack next week unless anybody has any input
<arosales> and Daviey cloud archive progressing ok
<arosales> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-cloud-archive
<arosales> smoser: that covers the high and essential bps that are in the red
<arosales> half way point in the release :-)
<arosales> feature freeze coming up at the end of the month
<m_3> don't know why that comes as a surprise every time... but it does :)
<smoser> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseSchedule
<arosales> aug 23rd to be exact for the freeze
<smoser> right. August 23, which seems earlier than "end of the month"
<arosales> semantics
<smoser> so anyway. moving on
<arosales> :-)
<arosales> bugs?
<smoser> bugs?
<smoser> http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html is the "release-bugs" list.
<smoser> anyone want to go into more detail there?
<smoser> #topic 12.04.1 Development (jamespage & smoser)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  12.04.1 Development (jamespage & smoser)
<jamespage> the report is doing something odd - two of those are closed out
<jamespage> smoser: shall I?
<smoser> um... sure
<Daviey> jamespage: which two?
<jamespage> OK; so we have two updates still working through -proposed - one for openvswitch and a NEW package for walinuxagent for azure
<jamespage> other that that all other 12.04.1 targets have pushed out to -updates
<jamespage> ISO images will start being produced from -update soon (if not already)
<jamespage> so expect some requests to help with testing
<jamespage> Daviey, cobbler and python-couchdb
<adam_g> bug #973741 seems to be stuck in progress, but id hope its targetted to 12.04.1
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 973741 in openssl (Ubuntu Precise) "[SRU] segmentation fault for all https operations in libcrypto.so.1.0.0 on 'legacy' Intel Xeon CPUs" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/973741
<jamespage> adam_g, hmm - thats not been uploaded to -proposed yet has it...
<jamespage> or it has once
<adam_g> jamespage: it has once, but theres a second patchset now. not sure if its fallen off the radar, or what
<jamespage> adam_g, looks like it; its not in the server packageset so I'd not been keeping an eye on it...
<jamespage> adam_g, leave it with me - I'll see what can be done but probably missed 12.04.1 now
<adam_g> thanks, jamespage
<jamespage> thats me done
<jamespage> ...
<jamespage> smoser?
<Daviey> jamespage / smoser: ubuntu-cloud-keyring needs to be SRU'd to 12.04
<Daviey> and an expected change to python-software-properties
<jamespage> Daviey, ack; guess that will be post 12.04.1 then....
<smoser> Daviey, can you open bugs ?
<Daviey> smoser: I have people for that.
<smoser> well go find one of them, and ask them to open a bug for you.
<smoser> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Ubuntu Server Team Events
<Daviey> smoser: I just uploaded it to Quantal.. once it's accepted, i'll be able to open a task
<arosales> CloudOpen at the end of the month (smoser "real" end of the month) 29-31 August
<smoser> Daviey, ah. i was confused by the name.
<smoser> as the cloud-images public keys just got into cloud-utils recently.
<Daviey> hah
<smoser> are community members receiving invittations to UDS-R now?
<zul> i havent gotten mine...hmmmm
<smoser> utlemming got 4
<utlemming> I guess someone wants me to go
<smoser> well, if they're not, i would assume that is to happen soon.
<smoser> just for anyone reading: Ubuntu Developer Summit - R (Oct 29, 2012 - Nov 1, 2012)
<smoser> a day has been cut off.
<Daviey> I didn't get an invite.. so i'll stay home
<arosales> http://uds.ubuntu.com/ is updated with the info too
<smoser> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<jamespage> gema is standing in for hggdh today to give an update on automated testing stuff...
<gema> o/
<gema> so I was asked for an update on UTAH and where are things with the test cases migration
<gema> we have some functionality already working,
<gema> we can install preseeded VMs for ISO testing
<gema> and provision HW with cobbler within UTAH
<gema> we are having trouble with desktop installs, but working on that this week
<gema> we have used the iso server test cases as a starting point to migrate smoke testing
<gema> and we have a job already working and running
<gema> https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/siva-utah-server-test/
<gema> I published a result to the external instance, but it has been running for a while
<gema> the test code that is being run there is
<gema> https://code.launchpad.net/~psivaa/+junk/server
<gema> which is an initial migration of the smoke tests for server to utah
<jamespage> gema: so how can people get involved with writing test cases/expanding the existing tests?
<gema> we have added logging information to the test cases to make them more user friendly
<gema> jamespage: sure, we have created a mailing list for that
<gema> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/Ubuntu-utah-devel
<gema> these test cases are not in production yet, that is why they are in a personal branch somewhere, we are discussing wht the best way forward would be
<rbasak> This is for writing tests as well as developing utah itself?
<rbasak> (ubuntu-utah-devel)
<gema> rbasak: yes, we don't have any external contributors yet, but we are at a point where we would be happy to get some merge requests
<gema> the tool seems to be stable enough and off the ground for that
<rbasak> ok
<jamespage> gema, is there any documentation on how to get up and running with UTAH so folk can start getting a bit more involved?
<gema> jamespage: yes and no, we have some documentation, but things are going so quickly that is gets outdated fairly quickly
<gema> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/AutomatedTesting/UbuntuTestAutomationHarness
<gema> we are working on making the documentation insource and publishing it to a wiki somehow
<gema> so that it can be kept up to date
<gema> the best way to get started is to read what is in that wiki now and ask questions on the mailing
<smoser> ready to go on ?
<gema> we have a weekly hangout to discuss progress and I send a report to the list for further discussion
<smoser> (sorry)
<gema> our bootspeed testing has been migrated as well to utah
<gema> and it is running with it
<gema> we were having problems with the other scripts
<gema> so that is the only production testing we are running with utah atm
<gema> and I think that is all I have, do you guys have more questions?
<gema> this is what we've learnt from the migration so far:
<gema> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/AutomatedTesting/UbuntuTestAutomationHarness/HowToWriteGoodTestCases
<jamespage> gema, it would be great to get the server test cases in a team branch so people can start expanding/adding to them
<gema> jamespage: I agree, we should probably have a meeting separate from this one so that we can fill you guys in what we did
<gema> and what the thoughts / concerns are
<jamespage> gema, sure
<arosales> thanks gema for the update
<gema> no problem
<gema> ..
<smoser> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<smb> Hi. Well actually not really much prepared to say. The patch to enable nested kvm in q is in the pipe for the next precise update. Beside of that I have not more. Are there questions?
<smb> ..
<hallyn> \o/
<hallyn> thx for that
<smoser> nice work.
<smoser> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
<rbasak> Nothing new to report. Any questions for me?
<smoser> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Open Discussion
<arosales> Ursinha: did you have some reports to mention here, or hold off for another time?
<Ursinha> arosales, hold them off :)
<arosales> Ursinha: ok, thanks
<smoser> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
<smoser> next meeting is in 24*7-1 hours in most locals
<Daviey> super, thanks smoser
<arosales> smoser: thanks for chairing
<smoser> Next meeting: Tuesday 2012-08-21 at 1600 UTC
<smoser> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Aug 14 16:47:02 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-14-16.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-14-16.02.html
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Aug 14 17:00:12 2012 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Quantal
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<ppisati> o/
<herton> o/
<henrix> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
<sforshee> o/
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> Q/omap4: porting of tilt-3.4 [1] on top of Q 3.5 is done, i'm consolidating the code now.
<ppisati> The resulting kernel is available here:
<ppisati> http://people.canonical.com/~ppisati/ti-omap4-tilt-34-on-35/linux-image-3.5.0-205-omap4_3.5.0-205.10_armhf.deb
<ppisati> and here is the git tree:
<ppisati> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git?p=ppisati/ubuntu-quantal.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/ti-omap4-tilt-34-on-35
<ppisati> The entire patchset is available at http://people.canonical.com/~ppisati/ti-omap4-tilt-34-on-35/tilt-3.4/
<ppisati> There's a tracking bug following kernel consolidation here: http://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1035289
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1035289 in linux-ti-omap4 (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu-3.5.0-205.10 testing" [Undecided,New]
<ppisati> Right now i'm cleaning up the boot process(WARN_ON()&c), rebasing on latest Q/master, importing latest Q/omap4 config changes, etcetc
<ppisati> i'll start tackling the analog audio in the next few days.
<ppisati> [1]: http://git.linaro.org/gitweb?p=people/andygreen/kernel-tilt.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/tilt-3.4
<ppisati> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-quantal/canonical-kernel-distro-team-ubuntu-12.10-beta-1.html
<ogasawara> || apw         || hardware-q-kernel-config-review || 3 work item  ||
<ogasawara> ||             || hardware-q-kernel-delta-review  || 4 work items ||
<ogasawara> ||             || hardware-q-kernel-misc          || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> ||             || desktop-q-clean-old-kernels     || 1 work item ||
<ogasawara> || cking       || hardware-q-kernel-misc          || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> || ogasawara   || hardware-q-kernel-misc          || 4 work items ||
<ogasawara> || tgardner    || hardware-q-kernel-misc          || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> If your name is in the above table, please review your Beta-1 work items.
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Quantal Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Quantal Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> We've recently uploaded the 3.5.0-10.10 Quantal kernel to the release
<ogasawara> pocket.  This upload most notably provides a rebase to the first
<ogasawara> upstream stable v3.5.1 release.  This was also uploaded to the
<ogasawara> q-lts-backport [1] PPA to help facilitate testing of the 12.10 kernel in
<ogasawara> 12.04.  We welcome anyone to please install, test, and let us know your
<ogasawara> feedback.
<ogasawara> [1] https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat/+archive/q-lts-backport
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara>  * Thurs Aug 30 - Beta 1 Freeze (~2 weeks)
<ogasawara>  * Thurs Sept 6 - Beta 1 (~3 weeks)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> == 2012-08-14 (weekly) ==
<jsalisbury> Currently we have 98 CVEs on our radar, with one CVE added and one CVE
<jsalisbury> retired this week.
<jsalisbury> See the CVE matrix for the current list:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<jsalisbury> Overall the backlog has decreased slightly this week:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/status/cve-metrics.txt
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/CVE-linux.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Precise/Oneiric/Natty/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/herton/henrix)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Precise/Oneiric/Natty/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/herton/henrix)
<henrix> Here is the status for the main kernels, until today (August 14):
<henrix>  * Hardy - Nothing in this cycle
<henrix>  * Lucid - In Preparation; 3 CVEs; (6 commits)
<henrix>  * Natty - In Preparation; 1 CVEs; (4 commits)
<henrix>  * Oneiric - In Preparation; 1 CVEs; 2 upstream stable release(s); (98 commits)
<henrix>  * Precise - In Preparation; 0 CVEs; 3 upstream stable release(s); (166 commits)
<henrix>  
<henrix> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<henrix>  * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<henrix>  
<henrix> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<henrix>  * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<henrix>  
<henrix> Future stable cadence cycles:
<henrix>  * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseInterlock
<henrix>  
<henrix> The week of Sept. 6 is the week the last Natty kernel will be built.
<henrix> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Aug 14 17:05:52 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-14-17.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-14-17.00.html
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-08-15
<smartboyhw> QA meeting in 7 minutes
<smartboyhw> Meeting in 5 minutes
<smartboyhw> OK, please o/ if you are here for the QA meeting
<smartboyhw> Please o/ if you are here for the QA meeting
<balloons> p/
<balloons> o/
<balloons> I never could type
<smartboyhw> OK, so start meeting then
<smartboyhw> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Aug 15 14:04:05 2012 UTC.  The chair is smartboyhw. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<smartboyhw> #topic Ubuntu Updates
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Updates
<smartboyhw> O
<smartboyhw> OK
<smartboyhw> So, Ubuntu 12.04.1 is coming next week
<smartboyhw> So the testing will be more intense in the coming week
<smartboyhw> Um...
<smartboyhw> Hopefully we will get to test all flavors...
<smartboyhw> ..
<smartboyhw> balloons: Any updates?
<balloons> 12.04.1 images will be landing at the beginning of next week, and we'll have our usual round of testing on the images
<balloons> these will be an lt supdate, so it's really important to watch for regressions.
<balloons> we don't anticipate respins; aiming for a smooth round of testing :-)
<balloons> ..
<smartboyhw> Hmm
<smartboyhw> balloons: Last time phillw deleted the flavor updates
<smartboyhw> Is it that we shall never talk about it again?
<balloons> they've been migrated in the agenda to other updates
<balloons> use the [TOPIC] so people can follow along :-)
<smartboyhw> OK
<smartboyhw> [TOPIC] Ubuntu updates
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu updates
<smartboyhw> Yep, then
<smartboyhw> An agenda item added by phillw: Abiword
<smartboyhw> [TOPIC] Abiword
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Abiword
<smartboyhw> balloons: i'm wondering what's that
<smartboyhw> Someone added AbiWord to the agenda
<smartboyhw> Is phillw here?
<balloons> smartboyhw, there is a concern about the stability of abiword in the 12.04 repos
<balloons> there is a bug opened to this effect, let me find it
<smartboyhw> balloons: What's abiword
<balloons> here is the bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/abiword/+bug/1019621
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1019621 in abiword (Ubuntu) "Precise abiword version needs to be reverted to stable release prior to 12.04.1" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<balloons> abiword is a word processor
<smartboyhw> OK
<smartboyhw> Hmm, big bug
<smartboyhw> ..
<smartboyhw> balloons: ..?
<balloons> yes smartboyhw ?
<balloons> phillw, and lubuntu and presumbably xubuntu flavors are all concerned about this bug
<smartboyhw> Wow1
<smartboyhw> Maybe even Ubuntu Studio
<balloons> likely it will have to be fixed by an update after 12.04.1
<smartboyhw> OK
<smartboyhw> ..
<balloons> ..
<smartboyhw> OK, then AOB
<smartboyhw> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<smartboyhw> balloons: How is the survey results?
<balloons> smartboyhw, I intend to post the full result this week
<balloons> a little preview I can share some details
<smartboyhw> OK
<smartboyhw> Please, balloons
<balloons> the folks answering the survey we about 50/50 split on running the development release
<smartboyhw> 50/50? I hoped 70/30
<balloons> the largest number of votes on "what quality means" was "Quality means the default desktop and applications should work without crashing"
<balloons> Finally, many many folks had never heard of the team before, but most people expressed interest in helping, but they were unsure of time and technical skills
<smartboyhw> yep, I voted for that:)
<smartboyhw> balloons: Not good. Nobody heard of the team?:(
<balloons> good feedback, and as a group we can discuss ways to bring more awareness to the team and share what we're doing with others
<smartboyhw> balloons: So how do you promote the team?
<smartboyhw> I mean planning:)
<smartboyhw> balloons: I mean how will you plan to promote the team.
<balloons> smartboyhw, promoting the team means more visibility to what we are doing
<smartboyhw> I'm a bit ? about the visibility
<smartboyhw> How to improve it?
<xnox> balloons: what survey? =)
<balloons> xnox, sorry we should have linked ;-)
<balloons> http://www.theorangenotebook.com/2012/08/quality-perceptions-survey.html
<balloons> xnox,  the survey is now over, and I'll be posting the results. It was anonymous, however, if you have thoughts to share, feel free to do so
<xnox> well wanted to see questions really. oh well. I will wait for the results blog =)
<balloons> smartboyhw, promoting the team means sharing details on the work and planning events and ways to involve people. this is something everyone can do
<balloons> xnox, :-)
<smartboyhw> balloons: Great
<smartboyhw> balloons: I have been failing to contact phillw about our UEFI testcase
<smartboyhw> He is busy when I'm not, I'm busy whe he i
<smartboyhw> *is
<smartboyhw> ..
<smartboyhw> Also, balloons, I saw some Mythbuntu testcase missing, wat to do?
<balloons> smartboyhw, we can discuss outside of the meeting. Are there additional topics to cover?
<smartboyhw> No, then, so end meeting?
<balloons> Normally the final item on the agenda is [OTHER TOPICS]
<smartboyhw> It's now AOB, don't you realize
<smartboyhw> Any other business
<balloons> ahh!
<smartboyhw> So what other business can we discuss?
<balloons> smartboyhw, I have nothing else
<smartboyhw> Really, this meeting has too few people
<leadsled> abiword versions
<smartboyhw> Hi leadsled
<smartboyhw> #topic Abiword
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Abiword
<smartboyhw> leadsled: What things do ya want to say about AbiWord?
<smartboyhw> leadsled: o/ if you want to say something about AbiWord
<leadsled> which version will be used before the freeze?
<smartboyhw> balloons: Your turn, I don't know much about Abiword
<balloons> I can't speak for the 12.04.1 team, however at this point I believe changing the version would need to be a post-release work
<ScottK> Nothing new now for 12.04.1 that isn't an absolute show stopper with a clear fix that has very low risk of regression.
<smartboyhw> Thanks, ScottK
<smartboyhw> Anyway, we don't know, ask the 12.04.1 team tmr
<smartboyhw> ..
<smartboyhw> End meeting now, since it's been discussed.
<smartboyhw> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Aug 15 14:43:18 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-15-14.04.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-15-14.04.html
<smartboyhw> Thanks leadsled, xnox, balloons
<balloons> thanks ScottK ;-)
<balloons> thanks smartboyhw
<smartboyhw> Also scottk
<ScottK> You're welcome.
<smartboyhw> balloons: Let's go to #ubuntu-testing!
<smartboyhw> Waiting for Xubuntu meeting now:)
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Aug 15 15:03:34 2012 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
 * slangasek waves
<stokachu> o/
<xnox> hola!
 * ogra_ jumps
 * stgraber waves
 * smartboyhw waves
<jodh> o/
<slangasek> #topic lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh ev bdmurray slangasek ogra infinity cjwatson xnox stokachu)
<slangasek> infinity jodh slangasek cjwatson stgraber stokachu xnox barry doko bdmurray ev ogra
<infinity> - AA and SRU things, including a full round of kernel SRUs
<infinity> - Uploaded eglibc to both quantal and precise with several fixes, including sorting AVX/FMA4 detection issues
<infinity> - Updated tzdata in all releases
<infinity> - Started poking at livefs-in-soyuz things
<infinity> [..]
<jodh> * boot/upstart:
<jodh>   - Discussion with slangasek re ConfSource handling.
<jodh>   - Stateful re-exec now working in a rudimentary fashion.
<jodh>   - Attempting to make code work with json-c 0.9 problematic in that it
<jodh>     won't work on 64-bit systems without some trickery. Current feeling
<jodh>     is to mandate json-c 0.10. Upstream Debian maintainer for libjson0
<jodh>     package is planning to work on this, but I'll remind him.
<jodh>   - Currently trying to identify why post re-exec events do not trigger
<jodh>     jobs (may be due to the way I've had to disable D-Bus connection
<jodh>      handling, but still investigating).
<jodh> ð¤dd
<jodh>  
<slangasek> phoenicianâ½
<jodh> slangasek: impressed, yes! ;)
<stokachu> infinity: thanks for the tzdata
<infinity> stokachu: Did you have a chance to look at the tarball and/or docs I did for you to let me know if the process all made sense to you?
<stokachu> infinity: yea im reading them this morning
<slangasek> stgraber: why don't you go ahead of me
<stokachu> infinity: i wasn't aware of uupdate
<stgraber> sure
<stgraber> - 12.04.1
<stgraber>  - 12.04.1 team meeting and minutes
<stgraber>  - Went through all the targeted/milestoned bugs for 12.04.1, updated status based on comments and queue status.
<stgraber>  - Verified a bunch of SRUs.
<stgraber>  - Continuing release process.
<stgraber>  - Fixed 10.04 to 12.04 upgrades using media only. Looking at a few more issues and regressions caused by this.
<stgraber>  - Done reviews and granted exceptions where reasonable. Uploaded a libxml-sax-perl fix and fixed edubuntu-artwork too.
<stgraber> - Other
<stgraber>  - Implemented package list for all flavours to be used for the supported flag: http://people.canonical.com/~stgraber/supported-packages/lists/
<stgraber>  - Implemented upload permissions report for the DMB at: http://people.canonical.com/~stgraber/permissions/
<stgraber>  - Talked with Ted about image based system
<stgraber>  - Merge partman-iscsi
<stgraber>  - Some ARB app review, the app showdown made the ARB New queue reach 140 packages... Still 50 to review...
<stgraber> - TODO this week
<stgraber>  - Continue the work on 12.04.1.
<stgraber> (DONE)
<xnox> slangasek? or stokachu? or me?
<slangasek> I'll go next, one sec :)
<slangasek>  * had surgery, so was technically off work yesterday
<slangasek>  * working with jodh around upstart stateful re-exec
<slangasek>  * sponsored upload of kexec-tools so it works with our current vmcoreinfo-less packages
<slangasek>  * lots of SRU processing for .1
<slangasek> (done)
<slangasek>  * diving into various errors.u.c reports to identify any point-release regressions
<stokachu> worked with support to get kexec-tools sru in shape and uploaded, failed attempt at getting tzdata in proper form for inclusion which resulted in more documentation added to the wiki which clarifies the process, still drowned in an increase in issues through customer channels, finalizing appmenu-gtk for multi-arch. done.
<stokachu> infinity: the documentation makes sense and clarifies a lot for me, thanks for doing that
<infinity> stokachu: NP.
<slangasek> jodh: given the json-c maintainer's radio silence, please go ahead with preparing the packaging for 0.10 and we can propose a debdiff to Debian when it's ready
<jodh> slangasek: roger! :)
<infinity> stokachu: As stated before, I don't mind taking ownership of tzdata ANYWAY, but perhaps you should do 2012f when it comes out, to make sure the docs and knowlege transfer stick, should you need to do it in a hurry sometime,.
<stokachu> infinity: ok will do
<xnox> * Catch up on merges:
<xnox>  - dash, btrfs-tools, boost-mpi-sour1.49, boost1.49, e2fsprogs,
<xnox>    partman-crypto
<xnox>  - lvm2 merge in progress, see questions for anyone (slangasek?!) in the merge proposal
<xnox> https://code.launchpad.net/~dmitrij.ledkov/ubuntu/quantal/lvm2/merge95/+merge/119696
<xnox> * Fixed bugs, due to ubiquity crypt work landing:
<xnox>  - http://pad.lv/1035167
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1035167 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Choose a security key - page " [High,Fix released]
<xnox>  - http://pad.lv/1034954
<xnox>  - http://pad.lv/1035514
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1034954 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Quantal) "ubiquity crashed with KeyError in get_autopartition_choice(): None" [High,Fix released]
<xnox> * 20120809 - Did a small patch-piloting session (11 syncs for Logan)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1035514 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "ubiquity screens are too tall, can't see forward button" [High,Fix released]
<xnox> * mdadm SRU is finally fully verified and promoted into -updates
<xnox> * Working on regaining vertical space to make automatic crypt option
<xnox>   visible by default (currently it is still hidden behind command line
<xnox>   argument)
<xnox> ââ¦â§
<barry> short week due to vacation.  patch piloted.  bug 1016212.  gwibber backend python3 porting.  dmb meeting.  upgraded main machine to quantal.  fixed unrelated email failure.  done.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1016212 in pygobject "gtimelog crashed with SIGSEGV in gtk_style_context_get_valist()" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1016212
<slangasek> stokachu: increase in customer issues> interesting... is that due to an increase in customers? :-)
<doko> - power outage in my work room, fuse always turns the power off :-/
<doko> - python2.7 and python3.2 updates, commit some pending patches upstream
<doko> - gcc-4.7 cross fixes
<doko> - binutils aarch64 test build
<doko> - openjdk-7 merges
<doko> - linaro connect week (virtual)
<doko> (done)
<stokachu> slangasek: indeed :) this is a good thing
<bdmurray> bug triage of iso-testing bug reports
<bdmurray> bug triage of memtest86+ bug reports
<bdmurray> modified to bug pattern consolidation script to skip bugs tagged bot-stop-nagging
<bdmurray> updated meta-release file to point to precise-updates instead of precise-security
<slangasek> xnox: I will look at lvm2 today
<bdmurray> updated meta-release-lts-development on changelogs.ubuntu.com
<bdmurray> tested bug 1026068 regarding update-manager
<bdmurray> errors.ubuntu.com API code modifications to deal with API changes and more
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1026068 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "Quantal Crashes as upgrade starts" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1026068
<bdmurray> modified greying of last seen column in errors.ubuntu.com
<bdmurray> research into bug 936186 regarding software-properties
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 936186 in software-properties (Ubuntu Precise) "add-apt-repository crashed with error in get_ppa_info_from_lp(): (23, 'Failed writing body (0 != 1607)')" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/936186
<bdmurray> research into bug 989819 regarding crash signatures and making them more specific
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 989819 in apport (Ubuntu) "the signatures match code should probably consider the exception for python errors" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/989819
<bdmurray> research into bug 1020994 regarding drop in reporting volume at error tracker
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1020994 in Errors "Investigate why we're not showing many errors for the development release" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1020994
<bdmurray> fixed issue with apt-clone in precise-proposed and python2.7 vs python2.6 syntax
<bdmurray> modified sru report to show last bug comment
<bdmurray> done
<ev> bdmurray: thanks for the patches!
<ev> - Fixed bugs that cropped up in the new errors.ubuntu.com, and ones that the
<ev>   increased attention to it surfaced.
<ev>   - Set the y-axis to 0 to fix deceptive graphs.
<ev>   - Correctly escape the problem identifiers so that failed-to-retrace
<ev>     problem pages do not raise an exception.
<ev>   - Fix the month view of the most common problems page (grumbles about UTF8).
<ev> - Had a conversation with Colin and the Launchpad team about how to best talk
<ev>   to and cache data from Launchpad for our "ideal line" calculation. The ideal
<ev>   line is the number of crashes where all the packages in the dependency
<ev>   chain for the crashed application were up to date at the time of sending,
<ev>   divided by the number of unique users seen in a 90 day period. A few
<ev>   strategies were discussed, but Robert suggested first getting this
<ev>   talking to Launchpad and then seeing just how much extra work needs to be
<ev>   done to speed it up.
<ev> - Had conversations with Matthew, Robert, and others over whether our ideal
<ev>   line calcuation is correct. Matthew is going to take this to canonical-tech
<ev>   for further discussion, but for the moment we're dropping the ideal line
<ev>   calculation as designed above.
<ev> - Wrote a script to back-populate system identifiers (SHA-512 hashes of the
<ev>   system uuid) into the individual error reports in the database. These
<ev>   existed in a separate column family that mapped from system identifier to
<ev>   error reports for that system (so we can have a dialog in
<ev>   gnome-control-center that lists your crashes), but we need the reverse
<ev>   mapping for this "90 days of unique users" calculation. It took about 12
<ev>   hours to complete running from my laptop through an ssh tunnel into the DC.
<ev>   
<ev>   There is an exponentially increasing number of such tasks. I think we're
<ev>   going to need Hadoop and its map/reduce goodness wired to Cassandra much
<ev>   sooner than I originally thought. I'll ask webops to tackle that after we're
<ev>   done with the staging Cassandra database.
<ev> - Wrote another script to back-populate unique user counts on a per-release
<ev>   basis. This ended up hitting Cassandra too hard and had to be killed.
<ev>   Retuned and run through to completion.
<ev> - Modified oops-repository to start recording unique user counts on a
<ev>   per-release basis (so we don't have to keep back-populating). Filed RT 55227
<ev>   for this. Deployed.
<ev> - Chat with Brian over some errors.ubuntu.com mysteries, specifically why
<ev>   we're missing the DistroRelease field for a sizeable set of crashes. Talked
<ev>   to Tom about getting him read-only access to Cassandra, but they're keen on
<ev>   getting the staging DB done first. Re-raised and filed RT 55226 at Tom's
<ev>   request to discuss possible solutions.
<ev> - Got caught up on Daisy and Errors bug triage.
<ev> - Ported my branch to use data from Launchpad to colorize the rows from
<ev>   launchpadlib (not threadsafe) to straight HTTP. Merged into trunk and wired
<ev>   it to jml's wonderful AtomicFileCache, which needed a new release of
<ev>   lazr.restfulclient and some small changes to build in lucid.
<ev>   
<slangasek> doko: fuse turns the power off?  surely this is evidence that userland filesystems are a bad idea
<ev>   With this branch in place, lines in the most common problems table are
<ev>   greyed out if the linked bug is marked as completed. If the 'Last seen'
<ev>   version is older than the most recent published version, that column will be
<ev>   greyed out. If a linked bug is marked as complete but the 'Last seen'
<ev>   version is the newest version, that column will be marked red (potential
<ev>   regression). This needs some work. Complete includes the Invalid status and
<ev>   the code currently requires all linked bug tasks to be complete for its own
<ev>   interpretation of the complete state.
<ev> - Fix to whitelist the retracer APIs in open ID. We now have:
<ev>   https://errors.ubuntu.com/retracers-results/
<ev>   https://errors.ubuntu.com/retracers-average-processing-time/
<ev> - Chat with Andy on the correct algorithm for kernel oops signature
<ev>   generation. I'm going to cook something up and then feed it lots of data
<ev>   from launchpadlib, then ask him to review. The signature generation is the
<ev>   main thing blocking kernel oops reports on http://errors.ubuntu.com.
<ev> - Chat with Michael Hall, who has been asked by Jono to get bug reports
<ev>   enabled for packages in extras.ubuntu.com. Fixing apport should be fairly
<ev>   straightforward:
<ev>   https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apport/+bug/1036224
<ev> - Fighting juju and Canonistack. Finally got just the latter working and a
<ev>   Cassandra test environment built.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1036224 in apport (Ubuntu) "Whitelist extras.ubuntu.com in apport's native-origins" [Medium,Confirmed]
<ev> - Wrote a script to populate the test Cassandra DB with sample data, then test
<ev>   the performance and load of the unique users by release back population
<ev>   code.
<ev> - Improved logging in our retracers and finally fixed retracing of 12.04
<ev>   crashes \0/. This turned out to be oneiric sources in the apt configuration
<ev>   for apport-retrace. Worked a fix through with webops.
<ev> - Started building out operational graphs. I've made one for instances over
<ev>   time, and will shortly add another for problems over time.
<ev> - Mail announcing my intent to send a regular posting of the state of the
<ev>   Error Tracker project. It is my hope that this will encourage contributions
<ev>   and keep people like Brian in sync with the conversations we're having in
<ev>   Bluefin.
<ev> - Investigated the current state of Cassandra-backed Django data models in
<ev>   support of RT 55322. We'll have to use sqlite for this openid stuff.
<doko> ev: summary, not a short story ;-P
<ev> - Started integration django-openid-auth into lp:errors. Just need to sort out
<ev>   how to force specific groups via the OpenID AX extension.
<ev> ð
<infinity> doko: s/short //
<ogra_> hey you managed to scroll off a fulHD resolution with 8pt font in xchat ... thats a new record
<ogra_> done:
<ogra_> * live-installer works fine with flash-kernel again
<ogra_> * started with /etc/default/flash-kernel (looking into rootfs UUID detection atm)
<ogra_> * dug more into Bug 1018907, seems debian actually has libdrm-omap1 as well as xserver-xorg-video-omap (with drm support)
<ogra_>   looking into integrating both into the panda images
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1018907 in plymouth (Ubuntu Quantal) "plymouth in quantal on arm does only boot with black screen" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1018907
<ogra_> * tested linux-ti-omap4 3.5 port from ppisati on server and desktop, works fine apart from the known issues on bug 1035289
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1035289 in linux-ti-omap4 (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu-3.5.0-205.10 testing" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1035289
<ogra_> * bricked my freescale mx6 board (by following the linaro howto) and recovered it (using a freescale tool under winXP in a VM ... that ate a whole day to install *sigh*)
<ogra_> * piloting
<ogra_> todo:
<ogra_> * bug 1028905
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1028905 in cdrom-detect (Ubuntu Quantal) "cdrom-detect in quantal omap4 hangs trying to look for install media on an extended partition" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1028905
<ogra_> * move on with flash-kernel transition from boot.scr to preEnv.txt
<ogra_> * spec item cleanup
<ogra_> ..
<stokachu> andddddddd i just finished all of stephen kings books... twice.
<xnox> just some questions to ev.
<ev> :)
<xnox> * hadoop - I deploy 100 node hadoop clusters in ~40 minutes .... $ juju deploy hadoop
<xnox> or do you need something in constant access?
<stokachu> barry: emacs supports deploying to hadoop now :P
<ev> xnox: it's a bit more complicated than that ;)
<xnox> ok.
<ev> we need to wire hadoop to cassandra
<barry> stokachu: M-x firehose RET
<ev> and provide something like hive or pig
<xnox> ev: is the ideal line comming back or not ever?
<ev> xnox: http://wiki.apache.org/cassandra/HadoopSupport
<ev> xnox: it was never there, but it will arrive soon
<ev> the code is done
<ev> just needs to be cleaned up and deployed
<xnox> ev: ok.
<xnox> ..
 * xnox haha slangasek on fuse.
<doko> heh, still don't know why the fuse turns off :-/
<barry> doko: stuxnet
<slangasek> haha
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> any more questions on status?
<slangasek> btw, thanks to everyone who's keeping up on their patch piloting
<slangasek> it's really nice to see the queue being held down, and I know it's satisfying for our contributors to be getting feedback on their submissions
<slangasek> so keep up the good work :)
<stokachu> patch.pilots++
<slangasek> #topic 12.04.1
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: 12.04.1
<slangasek> there are a couple of bugs of note on this topic
<slangasek> one is the nspr issue... bug #1036794
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1036794 in nspr (Ubuntu Precise) "unmet dependencies during update of nspr4: libnspr4 : Breaks: evolution-plugins (< 3.2.0-0ubuntu2) but 2.32.2-0ubuntu7 is to be installed" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1036794
<slangasek> I don't know that we need to discuss it here though, I think infinity, stgraber and I can shake that out on #ubuntu-release after the meeting
<slangasek> the other one is the lucid->precise pre-depends issue
<slangasek> jibel found us a reproducer for this (thanks, jibel!)
<slangasek> bug #1017001
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1017001 in apt (Ubuntu Quantal) "package resolvconf 1.63ubuntu14 failed to install/upgrade: ErrorMessage: pre-dependency problem - not installing resolvconf" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1017001
<stgraber> yeah, I'm poking at 1036794 at the moment, so we can probably just discuss in #ubuntu-release
<slangasek> can I get a volunteer to look at 1017001 and try to pin it down?
<slangasek> (very VMable... the reproducer is in the bug description now)
<infinity> Just a pre-dep ordering issue?
<infinity> I can poke it.
<slangasek> a pre-dep ordering issue that has been latent since release and we haven't been able to reproduce, yes :)
<slangasek> infinity: ok, assigning to you
<infinity> Yes, but with a reproducer, yay.
<slangasek> thanks
<slangasek> stgraber: anything else for 12.04.1 that bears mentioning?
<ev> xnox: I realised I was somewhat wrong. The way we're calculating the ideal line is wrong. Matthew has some proposed math for it that he's going to send to canonical-tech.
<ev> so it may be some time before the line comes back
<slangasek> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+bugs?field.milestone=49926 still shows a number of non-fix-committed bugs; I imagine we need to start bumping milestones?
<stgraber> yeah, I have an action to do the mass bumping to 12.04.2 for these
 * xnox did ev just finished reading his own novel...? =)
<ev> ha ha ha
<ev> I write it throughout the week. I can't be expected to remember every detail ;)
<stgraber> besides that, we're mostly at the reviewing the queue, accepting stuff and monitoring new bugs part of the process
<slangasek> stgraber: ok.  Any in that list that you think *shouldn't* be bumped, and we should be trying to get a last-minute upload for instead?
<stgraber> I don't believe we have anything besides the apt stuff that we might want to see uploaded and included
<slangasek> the usb-creator one is marked 'fix committed' but was verification-failed, I think
<slangasek> stgraber: which apt stuff?
 * infinity has someone verifying the FMA4/AVX stuff on his affected hardware right now, in hopes that we can re-open that discussion.
<stgraber> slangasek: bug 1017001
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1017001 in apt (Ubuntu Quantal) "package resolvconf 1.63ubuntu14 failed to install/upgrade: ErrorMessage: pre-dependency problem - not installing resolvconf" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1017001
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> (which is hopefully not actually an apt bug, but we'll see :)
<infinity> slangasek: It may well be an apt misfeature, but fixing it in metadata's almost certainly going to be saner for an SRU.
<infinity> (We'll see)
<stgraber> slangasek: the fix for usb-creator was indeed marked verification-failed. But I don't think it's critical enough for a last minute fix + upload so I didn't spend more time trying to fix it yet
<infinity> slangasek: Also, where's the reproducer you claim jibel found for that bug?  The last few comments in the log are people still claiming they can't reproduce. :P
<slangasek> stgraber: ok, so I guess you'll be bumping the milestone on that one
<slangasek> infinity: it's in the bug description
<infinity> slangasek: Oh, he updated the des... Yeah.
<infinity> Who reads those?
<slangasek> :)
<stgraber> slangasek: yeah
<slangasek> infinity: people who read my comments on IRC telling them to read them? ;)
<infinity> slangasek: I did all my reading for the day with ev's report.
<slangasek> #topic Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
<ev> hahaha
<slangasek> bdmurray: anything you want to highlight?
<bdmurray> bug 1027648 is ridiculously high on errors.ubuntu.com
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1027648 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Quantal) "ubiquity crashed with ValueError in command(): I/O operation on closed file." [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1027648
<infinity> bdmurray: Does this apply to precise, too?  Comments suggest that it might...
<slangasek> infinity: it's on the errors.u.c for 12.04, so yes
 * slangasek targets
<infinity> Check.
 * infinity wonders if there's an obvious linear reproducer, or if it's a race.
<bdmurray> https://errors.ubuntu.com/bucket/?id=%2Fusr%2Flib%2Fubiquity%2Fbin%2Fubiquity%3AValueError%3Awatch_debconf_fd_helper%3Aprocess_input%3Await%3Acleanup%3Apreseed%3A%3Clambda%3E%3Acommand that's the error report url
<slangasek> anyone (other than infinity who's already volunteered today) want to look into that one?
<bdmurray> and there are reports from 2.10.19
<infinity> xnox loves python and ubiquity.
<ev> and debconf
<ev> everyone loves debconf
<infinity> I have nothing against debconf.
<ev> I have everything against debconf
<slangasek> infinity: that's because you don't work on partman ;)
<infinity> It's people abusively wrapping debconf and getting lost in a twisty maze of file descriptors that I have issues with. ;)
<ev> lol
<slangasek> heh
<bdmurray> then there is also bug 875879 which is trending up on errors.ubuntu.com
<ev> touchÃ©
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 875879 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "update-manager crashed with AttributeError in show_diff(): 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'group'" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/875879
<ev> woo, errors.ubuntu.com
<bdmurray> https://errors.ubuntu.com/bucket/?id=/usr/bin/update-manager:AttributeError:_on_config_file_conflict:run:show_diff
<bdmurray> looks like it is really an aptdaemon issue
<slangasek> so based on what that bug is, I think we'll see it trending down again soon
<slangasek> it triggers only when there's an update that includes a conffile that the user has modified locally
<slangasek> and the current spike is probably related to some specific SRU that's just gone in
<slangasek> that doesn't make it less important to fix - quite the contrary.  I'm just saying that it's probably going to fall off errors.u.c and we shouldn't let it fall off our priority list
<bdmurray> right
<slangasek> any volunteers for that one?  (if not I think we keep it in the queue for now)
<slangasek> no volunteers then
<slangasek> bdmurray: anything else?
<bdmurray> looking at ubuntu-release-upgrader bugs I see a few crashed with SIGABRT in __assert_fail_base() bug reports
<bdmurray> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-release-upgrader/+bugs?orderby=-id&start=0
<bdmurray> I don't know what that is aboutâ¦
<slangasek> hmm
<slangasek> and do-partial-upgrade is in python?
 * slangasek confirms
<slangasek> bdmurray: do they all show xcb in the stack trace, like bug #1031400 does?
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 1031400 could not be found
<slangasek> bdmurray: seems to be a strange X error.  Maybe ask the desktop team?
<bdmurray> great
<bdmurray> its probably the same xcb error that was in update-manager
<slangasek> ah.  did that get tracked down?
<bdmurray> looking but I don' t hink so
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> stokachu: any bugs from your side that you want us to know about?
<bdmurray> bug 930839 for the record
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 930839 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "update-manager crashed with SIGABRT in __assert_fail_base(): Assertion !xcb_xlib_unknown_req_in_deq failed in dequeue_pending_request" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/930839
<slangasek> yep, that looks very similar
<bdmurray> ev is there a way to find a problem linked to that bug on errors?
<stokachu> slangasek: tzdata and kexec-tools were taken care of so im good
<ev> bdmurray: not at present, no
<ev> we don't have a mapping in that direction
<slangasek> stokachu: ok cool
<stokachu> ill have appmenu-gtk done soon but ill ping after meeting
<slangasek> bdmurray: ah, looks like there's been some analysis on 930839.  The next thing to check is whether we're calling the gdk thread init function from these apps
<slangasek> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else?
<infinity> Bacon.
<stokachu> im friends with beggin strips on facebook
<ogra_> & eggs ?
<stokachu> love that dog
<stgraber> slangasek: bug 1037001
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1037001 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "[l10n][zh_CN] Indicator menus should be fully localized for installer" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1037001
<stgraber> just mentioned by seb in #ubuntu-devel
<stgraber> I highly doubt we can do something about it for the point release though
<slangasek> stgraber: hrrm.  Well, please target it to precise, at least, so it stays on the radar
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Aug 15 16:02:44 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-15-15.03.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-15-15.03.html
<slangasek> that's all, folks
<slangasek> thanks again :)
<barry> thanks!
<infinity> Toodles.
<xnox> merci
<stgraber> thanks
<stgraber> slangasek: done
<ogra_> thanks
<jodh> cheers
<ev> thanks
<stokachu> slangasek: do you mind taking a quick peek at the debdiff for http://pad.lv/932860
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 932860 in appmenu-gtk (Ubuntu Precise) "Broken (or missing) multiarch support" [High,Triaged]
<slangasek> stokachu: I can't look at the moment, sorry; maybe you can take it to #ubuntu-devel and see if someone else is free to?
<stokachu> sure thing
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-08-16
<stokachu> o/
<smartboyhw> 12.04.1 meeting again or what?
<arges> i think its about 8m early right now
<stgraber> #startmeeting 12.04.1 team meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Aug 16 14:00:18 2012 UTC.  The chair is stgraber. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 12.04.1 team meeting Meeting | Current topic:
<stgraber> NCommander, seb128, stokachu, arges, jibel, skaet, smoser, jamespage: ping
<seb128> hey
<stokachu> hai
<jibel> hello
<stgraber> wow, everyone is in the channel, that's a first ;)
<arges> o/
<jamespage> o/
<skaet> o/
<jamespage> smoser won't be joining us today...
<stgraber> ok
<stgraber> That's our last meeting before the 12.04.1 release. I'll cancel next week's meeting as we'll have either released already or be busy with the release.
 * skaet nods
<stgraber> #topic Action items review
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 12.04.1 team meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Action items review
<stgraber> xnox to liase with ballons, gema and jibel w.r.t. fs/storage testing
<stgraber> the usual ;)
<jibel> no news from xnox
<jibel> as usual
<xnox> stgraber: hmm. I actually should now. =)
<stokachu> lol
<xnox> jibel: crypto has landed in ubiquity, would it be hard to add a desktop test case to jenkins with crypto enabled?
<xnox> jibel: also i now want some new build-types, where the preseed changes the default filesystem to btrfs
<xnox> e.g. for ubuntu-server & ubuntu-desktop
<xnox> jibel: does it need to be pre-seedable, cause it isn't currently?
 * xnox maybe we should move this conversation to #ubuntu-testing?
<jibel> xnox, can we talk with gema after the meeting ?
<xnox> jibel: ok
<jibel> xnox, thx
<stgraber> #topic Review of upcoming deadlines
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 12.04.1 team meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Review of upcoming deadlines
<stgraber>   - today 21:00 UTC: FinalFreeze, ReleaseNoteFreeze
<stgraber>   - 2012/08/23: Ubuntu 12.04.1
<stgraber> That says it all, please make sure everything's ready for the release on your side and talk to us in #ubuntu-release if you need help with something
<stgraber> #topic Quick look through the current bug lists, checking for progress.
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 12.04.1 team meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Quick look through the current bug lists, checking for progress.
<stgraber> Verification is ongoing, please help where you can: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html
<stgraber> Additional tracking is done at: http://pad.ubuntu.com/12-04-1-preparation
<stgraber> Remaining packages in the queue to be accepted into -proposed: xfwm4 (per xubuntu's request)
<stgraber> we'll be keeping the list of things to copy to -updates before spinning the 12.04.1 candidates on that pad, so if you have something in the queue that you need in 12.04.1, make sure it's fully tested and add it to the pad
<stokachu> stgraber: i finished several sru's last night.. these will be pushed out after 12.04.1?
<stgraber> stokachu: yeah
<stgraber> Images now only use -updates, so we'll be doing some copies from -proposed to -updates before the 7 days mark for packages that we want in the point release.
<stgraber> The images built after 21:00 UTC today will be candidates so changes will only go in if absolutely required.
<stokachu> ok sounds good
<stgraber> #topic Whoopsie (seb128)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 12.04.1 team meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Whoopsie (seb128)
<seb128> turn it off!!! ;-)
<stgraber> seb128: I remember you discussing with slangasek and saying this should be discussed here
<seb128> it should be decided there apparently yes
<stgraber> ev, slangasek: ping
<seb128> I'm still unsure what's the right process, who is the right person to decide
<seb128> I feel like we need slangasek
<ev> pong
<stgraber> ok, might still be a bit early for him (7am), we can continue with the roundtable and hopefully he'll show up during that time
<seb128> ok
<stgraber> ev: we might need you for some whoopsie question in a few minutes, kind of hoping slangasek will show up
<stgraber> #topic Round table
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 12.04.1 team meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Round table
<ev> sure thing
<stgraber> stgraber@castiana:~$ echo $(shuf -e NCommander seb128 stgraber stokachu arges jibel skaet jamespage)
<stgraber> seb128 stgraber skaet stokachu NCommander jibel jamespage arges
<seb128> hey
<seb128> nothing specific from desktop, things look good
<seb128> ..
<stgraber> that's good to hear ;)
<stgraber> stgraber:
<stgraber> We've been fighting with some apt ordering problems, mostly for 10.04.4 to 12.04 upgrades
<stgraber> then causing a regression for people who upgraded all the way from jaunty to precise (with all the required hops)
<stgraber> these two should be fixed once nspr lands in -updates
<stgraber> I've also been looking at some chinese images bugs, one fix is now in -proposed (ubiquity) and we might still need a tweak to the seeds that I need to investigate this morning
<stgraber> besides that, I think that things look good and we should be ready by 21:00 UTC
<stgraber> skaet:
<skaet> Release Notes in progress.   Doing delta and change log analysis today.
<skaet> Review of last few fixes and determine whatâs safe to move to updates.
<skaet> Chinese image building.
<skaet> Setting up pad.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-release for the 12.04.1.
<skaet> ..
<stgraber> skaet: I'll merge my pad into the ubuntu-release one once we're in final freeze, less things to watch
<stgraber> stokachu:
<stokachu> finished known list of multi-arch bugs, waiting in sru queue. let concerned parties know they will slip for .1
<stokachu> worked with infinity to get tzdata updated for all series (i think that will make it into installer)
<stokachu> ...
<stgraber> NCommander:
<stgraber> jibel:
<jibel> Continued with upgrade testing and SRU verification (latest verification are tzdata on Precise and nspr)
<jibel> Added automated test for upgrades with -updates enabled and upgrades with -proposed enabled
<jibel> We are currently testing automatically:
<jibel> - profiles desktop, server, server-tasks, main-all, universe from lucid/oneiric to precise with -proposed enabled
<jibel> - profiles desktop, server, server-tasks from lucid/oneiric to precise with -updates enabled
<jibel> No obvious bug found from smoketesting of desktop images
<stokachu> jibel: tzdata 2012e?
<jibel> 1 question:
<jibel> stokachu, yes, the version in proposed
<stokachu> awesome thanks for that
<jibel> skaet, there is no wubi to test 12.04.1 candidates
<jibel> skaet, did you talk to ev ?
<ev> jibel: there is...
<ev> http://people.canonical.com/~evand/wubi/precise/wubi-r269-signed.exe
<ev> and any CD spins since the 9th should have it
<jibel> ev, does it download images from http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/precise/wubi/current/ ?
<ev> ahhh rubbish
<ev> it gets the final release from the right place
<ev> but not the dailies
<ev> ugh.
<ev> fixing
<jibel> ev, thank you!
<jibel> ..
<stgraber> jamespage:
<slangasek> stgraber: hey, I'm around but on a call
<jamespage> one bug to highlight - bug 973741
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 973741 in openssl (Ubuntu Precise) "[SRU] segmentation fault for all https operations in libcrypto.so.1.0.0 on 'legacy' Intel Xeon CPUs" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/973741
<jamespage> as its not yet accepted into -proposed I think it unlikely to make 12.04.1 ...
<stgraber> right, a quick look doesn't show it being an installer blocker or even early post-install blocker for 12.04.1, so having it land right after it should be fine
<jamespage> stgraber, I agree
<jamespage> I'm out for the next 10 days or so on leave - so smoser will be the man to hassle for server stuff
<jamespage> ..
<stgraber> ok
<stgraber> arges:
<arges> stgraber,  no updates
<arges> just fyi. i have been updating
<arges> http://people.canonical.com/~arges/point-release/milestone-12.04.1.html
<arges> instead of hte other page btw
<arges> ..
<stgraber> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 12.04.1 team meeting Meeting | Current topic:  AOB
<stgraber> slangasek: any idea of when you'll be out of that call? we need to make a decision for whoopsie
<slangasek> stgraber: at the end of the hour ;)
<slangasek> stgraber: are you ready to discuss now?
<stgraber> slangasek: well, we have time left in this meeting, it was on the agenda (well, kinda) and seb128 and ev are around, but I'm happy to discuss it later, we just need to make a decision before 21:00 UTC
<arges> stgraber, just a question: do we know how active whoopsie has been for current precise users?
<ev> arges: 1,669,672 unique systems in the past 90 days.
<seb128> stgraber, slangasek: I'm still around at the end of the hour
<stokachu> whenever a whoopsie occurs a dude should pop out of the corner saying 'whooopsie' like in mortal kombat
<arges> ev,  : ) nice, how many unique bugs?
<slangasek> we don't know how many unique bugs with any certainty; bdmurray identified a bug that was causing partial reports to be submitted which means many of them are not being bucketed right now
<stgraber> arges: last stats were of an average of 0.48 crash per day for users who submitted a crash in the past (<total for Tuesday>/<total users>)
<ev> slangasek: they'll still be bucketed. The reports will just be missing some fields. So it will more affect the unique users in 90 days count per release
<seb128> slangasek, what do you mean "not being bucketed"? you suggested that we have too many reported ... or do we discard some due to the bug?
<ev> slangasek: as the fields that are missing are usually the Package and DistroRelease, not the crash signature.
<stgraber> seb128, ev, slangasek: so should we meet in 25min in #ubuntu-release so we don't force slangasek into multi-tasking?
<ev> works for me
<slangasek> ok
<stgraber> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Aug 16 14:35:52 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-16-14.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-16-14.00.html
<stgraber> thanks everyone!
<seb128> ok
<seb128> thanks
<jibel> thanks stgraber
<arges> thanks
<smartboyhw>  Thanks
<skaet> thanks
 * pleia2 waves
 * micahg waves
<YokoZar> howdy
 * cyphermox waves
<micahg> (from the audience)
<pleia2> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Aug 16 17:01:03 2012 UTC.  The chair is pleia2. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<pleia2> Community Council meeting :) welcome all
<czajkowski> aloha
<sabdfl> allo allo
<pleia2> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<Gwaihir> o/
<pleia2> so I think the only thing we really have on the agenda is catching up with the 12:00 membership board
<pleia2> #topic Ubuntu Membership Board GMT+ catchup
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Membership Board GMT+ catchup
<pleia2> who all is here from that board?
<cyphermox> o/
<czajkowski> cyphermox: hey there
 * cjohnston is from 2200, but I'm here
<pleia2> the boards are rather fluid anyway, all welcome
<cyphermox> czajkowski: hi :)
 * micahg is GMT- (US) 
<hggdh> o/
<sabdfl> o/
<pleia2> we pretty much just take this opportunity to check in, make sure there aren't any problems or blockers, ask for nice stories :)
 * hggdh is flexible
 * micahg doesn't quite understand how GMT+ is descriptive of a time
<cyphermox> pleia2: it seems to me as though the new split of the boards is working pretty well to both get good time coverage, and avoid meetings without quorum
<cyphermox> the biggest issue I've noticed (and it wasn't all that much, just complicated) was for some applicants in Myanmar IIRC who can't sign the CoC.
<cyphermox> I'm not certain of the current status of that
<czajkowski> cyphermox: I asked the user to let us know exactly what steps they were taking
<micahg> there's also an issue of people not realizing that significant and sustained contributions are required for membership
<hggdh> indeed
<hggdh> but I think this has always been the case
<czajkowski> so launchpad could look into it and possibly see if another keyserver should be used.
<czajkowski> micahg: what do you mea?
<czajkowski> are people applying too soon or not tracking their work ?
<cjohnston> Possibly both.
<cjohnston> imo
<cjohnston> Or either
<micahg> yeah
<cyphermox> agree. We've had some (few) applications for membership thought of as a permission to contribute, basically
 * pleia2 nods
<cyphermox> I think we did a good job at explaining the idea though; and it was well received and understood
<sabdfl> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributeToUbuntu is still accurate at first glance
<sabdfl> perhaps exhaustingly so :)
<cyphermox> The issue I think is that we can hardly make it clearer on the wiki, so yes we're dependent on people actually reading the pages
<YokoZar> cyphermox: That worries me about some unseen portion of people not contributing because they don't want to bother applying for membership
<cyphermox> YokoZar: I wonder if that would really stop people from contributing?
<pleia2> even https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards does link to the membership guidelines, and that's the page they add their name to, so it is at least seen (if not read)
<YokoZar> Perhaps it's a thing of making "Ubuntu Membership" a more visible concept than "contribute to ubuntu"
<YokoZar> (for some instances)
<cyphermox> pleia2: sabdfl: perhaps we could like to ContributeToUbuntu from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership
<micahg> well,  who to apply for rights is wrong on that wiki page (I don't think I've ever seen that page before :))
<micahg> on the ContributeToUbuntu page that is
<pleia2> cyphermox: maybe something like "Not ready for membership yet? Learn more about how you can ContributeToUbuntu"
<cyphermox> but I don't think it's going to change all that much; I'm afraid there will always be a portion of people who don't read or don't understand what we mean, due to the language barrier maybe.
<pleia2> cyphermox: agreed
<cyphermox> I think it's far fvrom being a moajority of the applications that really run into this kind of problem, we can always explain in more detail during the meeting
<czajkowski> well we could ask the community to help translate the pages?
<hggdh> that would be nice
<cyphermox> cjohnston: yes
<cyphermox> woops
<czajkowski> cyphermox: :)
<czajkowski> ok I'll look into getting the membership age translated if folks want
<czajkowski> pleia2: sabdfl YokoZar that seem like a good ide?
<czajkowski> *idea
<pleia2> yes, thanks :)
<cyphermox> I can spend some time to translate it to French, perhaps
<czajkowski> pleia2: action me that and will sort that out monday
<czajkowski> or tomorrow before I leave
<pleia2> #action czajkowski to look into into getting the /Membership wiki page translated
<meetingology> ACTION: czajkowski to look into into getting the /Membership wiki page translated
<sabdfl> perhaps we just need a simplified version in the local language?
<hggdh> or perhaps a simplified version also in English, pointing to the full version
<hggdh> where we only hightlight the points
<cyphermox> hggdh: +1
<pleia2> #action Membership board to look into writing simplified membership page
<meetingology> ACTION: Membership board to look into writing simplified membership page
<pleia2> there :)
<hggdh> heh
<pleia2> anything else?
<hggdh> not from me, I am happy as a drunken clam
<pleia2> thanks for coming, we'll invite you guys back on September 20th if other members wish to join us at a meeting then
<hggdh> cheers
<pleia2> (might even plan to follow up on how this membership page stuff is going)
<pleia2> #topic Any other business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Any other business
 * hggdh goes for a lunch
<pleia2> anyone have anything else they wish to announce or bring up during this CC meeting?
<czajkowski> just the CoC review
<czajkowski> any update YokoZar ?
<YokoZar> Is it just waiting on me now?
<YokoZar> Or are there still sections we needed to redo in other ways
<pleia2> YokoZar: can you have a look at the etherpad and update language/grammar issues?
<pleia2> then dholbach will check in the changes and we'll review again
<YokoZar> Yeah.  I was holding off a bit on a couple sections cause I thought we might redo them to mean something different.
<YokoZar> But I'll take a hack at it today then.
<pleia2> we're pretty much set, just give me a nudge if you're unsure about any sections (I think it could use a little cleanup)
<YokoZar> Sorry I got disconnected for last 10 minutes somehow :/
<micahg> o/
<YokoZar> Anyway there was something I wanted to discuss (that micahg brought up earlier) :)
 * ejat sorry im late, just arrive home from work .. 
 * micahg puts his DMB hat on
<YokoZar> Yup
<YokoZar> The idea is pretty simple: Remove the instant grant of membership that being granted upload rights has.
<YokoZar> and in so doing remove the requirement that an uploader be a member
<pleia2> beuno was supposed to send an email to the DMB board list to discuss that, but he's been quite busy
<YokoZar> Noting that uploading could in itself be a kind of significant/sustained contribution that could one day grant membership
<pleia2> can you?
<YokoZar> Sure
<sabdfl> in the name of accelerating upload permissions for promising contributors who don't yet meet the "substantial and sustained" test?
<micahg> sabdfl: yes, exactly
<sabdfl> sounds sensible
<YokoZar> sabdfl: precisely.  Maybe someone is trusted for a single package that they upload once a year or something.
<sabdfl> oh, i thought we did this when we introduced per-package-uploads, and package sets?
<pleia2> the meeting it was discussed and action item are from early july: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncil/TeamReports/12/July
<cyphermox> it sounds like a nice idea, but don't we already look for significant/sustained contributions to grant upload rights?
<pleia2> cyphermox: not so much for PPUs
<cyphermox> ah; right
<YokoZar> cyphermox: for general "I am Ubuntu developer and can upload to all of universe" we would though
<cyphermox> yes, I understand the issue is far more specific to PPU rights :)
 * cyphermox goes to lunch
<YokoZar> #action YokoZar to email DMB ~ membership not being required for PPU rights
<meetingology> ACTION: YokoZar to email DMB ~ membership not being required for PPU rights
<pleia2> thanks :)
<YokoZar> #action YokoZar to push new branch of CoC update based on latest Etherpad
<meetingology> ACTION: YokoZar to push new branch of CoC update based on latest Etherpad
<pleia2> \o/
<YokoZar> All right then
<pleia2> ok, anything else?
<Laney> can normal people like me see this branch and pad? ;-)
<czajkowski> Laney: we will be making the branch public after this
<pleia2> and we won't publish formally until we have the community review again
<czajkowski> yup
<czajkowski> same as before
<czajkowski> which worked out well
<sabdfl> Laney, please do look at it to see if it reflects our UDS session
<Laney> I'd like to, that's why I'm asking where it is
<sabdfl> i will do a review once there's a delta
<sabdfl> cool, thank you Laney
<pleia2> we fixed the "ubuntu is more important than your husband and dog" part :)
<pleia2> but yeah, we'll get it publich asap
<pleia2> published too
<sabdfl> i liked Rick's framing - "contribute to Ubuntu with the intention of making it better for its users"
<sabdfl> cool
<sabdfl> thanks all
<pleia2> thanks everyone
<pleia2> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Aug 16 17:30:50 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-16-17.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-16-17.01.html
<czajkowski> thanks pleia2
<pleia2> oh right, I'll take care of the wiki
<pleia2> next meeting is ARB catchup
<pleia2> (I'm excited for that one :))
 * ejat brb â¦ reconnecting â¦ 
<IdleOne> #startmetting
<IdleOne> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Aug 16 22:04:23 2012 UTC.  The chair is IdleOne. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<s-fox> I am here for the meeting :)
<IdleOne> #topic Ubuntu Membership Board 2200 UTC
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Membership Board 2200 UTC
<Phantomas> Hello everyone!
<IdleOne> Hello and welcome to the Ubuntu Membership Review Board meeting for August 16, 2012 Hello and welcome to the Ubuntu Membership Review Board meeting for https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards
<IdleOne> my copy paste is failing me
<IdleOne> :)
<IdleOne> We will attempt to get through all of the applicants that have added themselves to that list before today's meeting. If we are unable to make it through the entire list due to time constraints, then at the next meeting we will pick up where we left off.
<IdleOne> The format for the meeting is as follows: We will go through the list of applicants one by one, by date of application (FIFO).
<IdleOne> Each applicant should introduce themselves (1-5 sentences) and provide links to their Ubuntu Wiki page. After the introduction the members of the Membership Review Board will review the pages and, if needed, ask the applicant further questions.
<IdleOne> During this time it is encouraged for other members of the community to show their support for the applicant. Do not be alarmed if the members of the Membership Review Board are quiet during this time; they are most likely reading wiki/launchpad/forum/other pages and deciding how they are going to vote.
<IdleOne> When the board is ready to vote, they will publicly vote in the channel with either +1, 0, or -1 (for membership, abstain, and against membership, respectively). If the sum of those numbers is positive, then the applicant is now an official Ubuntu member! (feel free congratulate them!)
<IdleOne> Now, with any further ado, lets get started with the first applicant...
<IdleOne> Phantomas: please introduce yourself
<IdleOne> #voters IdleOne cyphermox s-fox PabloRubianes
<meetingology> Current voters: IdleOne PabloRubianes cyphermox s-fox
<Phantomas> Hello, I am Fotis Tsamis, an IT student living in Greece! I am an Ubuntu user since 2008 and a contributor since 2009
<Phantomas> My page is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FotisTsamis
<Phantomas> I enjoy programming in Python and GUI designing in GTK+ :)
<stgraber> oh, didn't know Phantomas was applying for membership, he's one of the great upstreams of epoptes, the new classroom management tool we started using for a couple of release in Edubuntu.
<cyphermox> stgraber: that's what I thought; great :)
<Phantomas> Hi stgraber! Thank you :)
<IdleOne> Phantomas: I see you don't have any testimonials on your wiki page, did you ask for any?
<IdleOne> well, you just got one from stgraber :)
<Phantomas> IdleOne: No, actually... I wanted to become a member from my work, and not from my contacts!
<cyphermox> Phantomas: it would be cool if you had friends from the Greek LoCo to acknowledge your work and cheer for you :)
<Phantomas> for*
<xnox> Phantomas: we have an excellent design doc for a Python GTK+ application which is incomplete. Would you be interested in joining upstream work on.... ubiquity installer? =)
<Phantomas> xnox: Sure!! :D
<PabloRubianes> Phantomas: are you active in you LoCo?
<Phantomas> PabloRubianes: I am as much as I can... since I am working hard with sch-scripts and epoptes though, not much time remains for helping etc
<Phantomas> I help on IRC mostly
<Phantomas> (#ubuntu-gr)
<Phantomas> xnox: Really, that would be great... I am super interested!
<PabloRubianes> yes having more free time is something we all want
<Phantomas> PabloRubianes: I have much free time, I spent it on programming though :)
<IdleOne> #vote Ubuntu membership approval for Phantomas
<meetingology> Please vote on: Ubuntu membership approval for Phantomas
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<xnox> Phantomas: I will drop you an email =) it is really easy if you understand Python + Gtk =)
<s-fox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from s-fox
<xnox> +1
<PabloRubianes> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from PabloRubianes
 * xnox can wish lol =)
<stgraber> FWIW, that's where epoptes is being used in Greece: https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=el&msa=0&msid=110322056715625861481.0004948b9931c4181a66d&z=7
<IdleOne> +1 Phantomas
<meetingology> +1 Phantomas received from IdleOne
<cyphermox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
<IdleOne> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Ubuntu membership approval for Phantomas
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<cyphermox> Please keep up the work
<s-fox> congratulations Phantomas :)
<IdleOne> Congrats Phantomas and Welcome
<PabloRubianes> congrats Phantomas
<cyphermox> Congrats Phantomas
<stgraber> congrats Phantomas
<Phantomas> Thank you all :) I'll try to do my best!
<PabloRubianes> and keep the work! ;-)
<cyphermox> Looking forward to seeing more contributions to other software bits in Ubuntu, and to new releases of epoptes :)
<IdleOne> #topic Other Business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Other Business
<IdleOne> Anything else we need to talk about today?
<cyphermox> Nothing from me
<s-fox> nothing from me
<PabloRubianes> nothing from me
<IdleOne> Sounds good.
<IdleOne> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Aug 16 22:16:06 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-16-22.04.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-16-22.04.html
<s-fox> bed? :)
<s-fox> thanks for coming to the meeting everyone!
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-08-17
 * skaet waves
<Riddell> hi skaet
<skaet> hi Riddell,  :)
 * balloons may or may not have just sent his summary
<scott-work> hello, skaet , we didn't get an email sent but i'm here for the meeting nonetheless
 * skaet didn't see it yet,  but hasn't refreshed in last 30 minutes
<Riddell> balloons: I see it
<balloons> Riddell, :-)
<balloons> hello scott-work !
<skaet> hello scott-work,  astraljava sent one.  :)
 * stgraber waves
<scott-work> skaet: oh good! i looked in my mail but didn't see naything
<scott-work> hi balloons
<scott-work> heh, i see it now
<skaet> :)
<popey> \o/ I _just_ beat balloons
<skaet> #meeting
<skaet> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Fri Aug 17 15:00:44 2012 UTC.  The chair is skaet. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<skaet> Agenda (and minute location):
<skaet> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2012-08-17
<skaet> .
<skaet> Upcoming dates:
<skaet> 12.04.1
<skaet>     2012/08/20: ReleaseNoteFreeze
<skaet>     2012/08/23: Ubuntu 12.04.1
<skaet> 12.10
<skaet>     2012/08/23: Quantal FeatureFreeze
<skaet>     2012/09/06: 12.10 Beta 1
<skaet> .
<skaet> Work Items:
<skaet> 2012/08/10 -  3011 (was 3010  (last  week):   We are behind the trendline for some of the projects.
<skaet> There is only 1  weeks left until FeatureFreeze, so getting us back on track would be appreciated.  If something is clearly not going to make it this cycle, please mark it POSTPONED.
<skaet> Please help get us back where we should be by making sure https://launchpad.net/~/+upcomingwork is up to date for your tasks.
<skaet> .
<skaet> .
<skaet> Work Items:
<skaet> 2012/08/10 -  3011 (was 3010  (last  week):   We are behind the trendline for some of the projects.
<skaet> There is only 1  weeks left until FeatureFreeze, so getting us back on track would be appreciated.  If something is clearly not going to make it this cycle, please mark it POSTPONED.
<skaet> Please help get us back where we should be by making sure https://launchpad.net/~/+upcomingwork is up to date for your tasks.
<skaet> .
<skaet> Bugs:
<skaet> Quantal: http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-q-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<skaet> 12.04.1: http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/milestone-12.04.1.html
<skaet> 12.04.1: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=49926
<skaet> .
<skaet> hmm... that date on the work items should be 2012/08/17..
<skaet> Weekly Status Received:
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001741.html - QA - gema
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001742.html - Security - mdeslaur
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001745.html - Kernel - ogasawara
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001746.html - Desktop - seb128 (kenvandine rep)
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001747.html - Lubuntu - gilir
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001748.html - HW Cert - brendand
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001749.html - Edubuntu - stgraber
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001750.html - Ubuntu Studio - astraljava
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001751.html - Xubuntu - astraljava
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001752.html - Kubuntu - Riddell
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001753.html - Linaro - fabo
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001754.html - Foudnations - ogra_
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001757.html - Ubuntu One - joshuahoover
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001759.html - Server - arosales
<skaet> ?? - Community Testing - balloons
<skaet> ?? - Product Strategy (Unity) - popey
<skaet> ..
<skaet> #topic Questions and Comments
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Questions and Comments
<skaet> hi all,  welcome.
<jdstrand> hi
<smartboyhw> Hi
<popey> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001760.html  mine
<gilir> hi
<popey> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001761.html balloons
<kenvandine> oh yay... when seb128 asked me to fill in i didn't even think about it being the week before feature freeze :)
 * balloons thanks popey
<skaet> thanks popey.
<skaet> kenvandine, yup.   we'll Feature Feeze at 2100 UTC next Thursday.
<skaet> other comments..
<skaet> Data Center move didnât go quite as smoothly as hoped for our buildds,  but i386, amd64, armhf are back on line now.   Powerpc will be back up shortly.   Weâll be respinning the candidates for 12.04.1 today, so look for them to appear on the iso tracker after we make a couple of decisions about some late landing fixes and the safety of their inclusion.
<skaet> ..
<skaet> any "o/" for questions before I start into my list?  ;)
<skaet> astraljava, scott-work, stgraber,, Riddell,   -  any surprises seen from 12.04.1 smoke testing?   All ready for testing when first candidate images start to land?
<scott-work> skaet: i am not aware of any problems
<stgraber> so far so good for Edubuntu
<stgraber> did a few tests yesterday without seeing any issue
<stgraber> ..
<Riddell> skaet: all good as far as it has been reported to me
<skaet> thanks.    glad to hear it.  :)
<skaet> ..
<skaet> As we head into feature freeze and bugs are going to be more important...   spotting some concerns about following our process for this release.
<skaet> arosales, QA reports running into https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-meta/+bug/1028453,  for a couple of weeks now,  but there doesnât seem to be much activity on it.   Is it planned to be fixed?  (still has rls-q-incoming tag on it and isnât targetted to quantal)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1028453 in ubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Quantal Ubuntu Server minimal install oversized" [High,Confirmed]
<skaet> kenvandine,  also noticed  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/brltty/+bug/1022927 - still has rls-q-incoming tag on it, and not targetted to quantal.  Is it planned to be fixed?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1022927 in brltty (Ubuntu) "Upgrade tests failed: obsolete files left after the upgrade" [High,Confirmed]
 * arosales looking
<kenvandine> skaet, i don't know
<kenvandine> but i'll check into it
<skaet> thanks kenvandine  :)
<skaet> other one I spotted was:
<skaet> Riddell in your bug list:  http://goo.gl/ESmab  there are about half without an importance set,  could you update those?  (wanting to know which are critical/high, and there looks like there may be a couple in the undecideds)
<Riddell> yeah I need to do some bug triage
<skaet> thanks Riddell.  :)
<skaet> ..
<skaet> gema,  bootspeed is showed significant reduction between 8/11 and 8/12 - was this is this a result of transition from test environement to real values, or further change expected?  http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/boot-speed/acer-veriton-02/index.html
<gema> skaet: the high timings were due to a problem with the environment
<gema> we are rerunning the tests so that we have good data, now that we got to the bottom of things
<gema> on old images
<skaet> is the data from 8/12 onwards considered good?
<arosales> skaet: I'll follow up on bug 1028453. We should be able to fix that hopefully before beta1
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1028453 in ubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Quantal Ubuntu Server minimal install oversized" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1028453
<skaet> thanks arosales.    gema, ^
<gema> skaet: do not consider anything definitive until we've caught up
<gema> skaet: there is a bad run there from the 0813
<skaet> gema,  fair 'nuf.  :)   thanks.
<gema> np
<skaet> ..
 * skaet wonders if any one else has questions?
<balloons> o/
<Riddell> o/
<skaet> go balloons
<balloons> ok I've got a few questions.. I'll start with the ARM images. Right now none of the daily builds since alpha 3 have worked to my knowledge
 * ogra_ tests daily ... 
<balloons> I'm trying to find the latest bug reports.. but I just wanted some feedback on a couple bugs causing issues
<balloons> is it working for you?
<ogra_> desktop was broken due to a general ubiquity bug for a few days (encryption page was getting in the way), beyond that ll images worked fine
<skaet> gema, ^ any input?
<gema> skaet: nope, we haven't been testing ARM
<ogra_> but as i stated in my mail, from yesterday on desktop testing is moot, we dont have GLES drivers so you wont be able to use the desktop
<ogra_> (the installer doesnt use any 3D elements, so you will be able to install but will not be able to run a live session or a desktop session on the installed system
<ogra_> )
<balloons> ogra_, we're getting kernel panics upon reboot
<balloons> ahh.. so that might be the driving issue then
<ogra_> balloons, bug # ?
<ogra_> i definitely dont have any panics
<ogra_> ..
<balloons> bah I can't seem to find it right now.. at least the kernel panic issue
<balloons> my issue was the wifi drivers not working, which the kernel folks fixed.. I still need to test again to see if it worked
<ogra_> well, there will be a new kernel soon
<ogra_> afaik it was just uploaded
<balloons> ok, well, I guess what's the best way to communicate with you on the issues the community finds and I can confirm?
<ogra_> (read: completely new from scratch ... vs the old cruft we used from precise with some hacks)
<balloons> ogra_, ok, good to know!
<ogra_> balloons, #ubuntu-arm generally has some distro arm people hanging around
<balloons> I can gather up the shortlist of bugs I know is causing grief
<balloons> ok, I'll chat more after, so I don't kill the meeting runtime
<balloons> thanks ogra_
<ogra_> and even though there is no official team anymore, the ubuntu-arm team on LP still exists, if you subscribe ubuntu-arm to bugs, the team gets mail notifications ;)
<ogra_> ..
<balloons> ..
<balloons> ohh
<balloons> lol, umm, I also wanted to ask colin what was going to happen with ubuquity before ff.. if anything
<balloons> cjwatson, are you about ^^
<skaet> ogra_,  do you know the plans?  or see if cjwatson can comment?
<ogra_> skaet, nope, i know that xnox is working hard on the lvm and encryption bits but i would have to ask for status
<ogra_> nothing beyond whats mentioned in the mail ...
<ogra_> ..
<skaet> ogra_, ack
<cjwatson> balloons: I'm not particularly working on it at the moment, although xnox is continuing to make progress on LVM/crypto work
 * xnox 0/
<cjwatson> ah yes, ogra_ said that too :)
<xnox> after ff, there will be more changes to the manual partitionaire. The automatic installation is done.
<xnox> lvm, ecryption is supported.
<xnox> no raid.
<xnox> ..
<skaet> xnox,  so FFE planned for the changes to the manual partitioners?
<Riddell> xnox: interesting, we should look at doing that in the kde frontend sometime presumably
<balloons> xnox, ok great. I'll want to make especially sure we have testcases for that
<balloons> ..
<xnox> skaet: there was an email out about it to you from slangasek. And I still need to follow up on it with more details.
<skaet> xnox,  ok.
<xnox> skaet: initially, after feature-freeze I will continue to implement bits and that see if they are ready to be incorporated into the installer.
<xnox> and if they are, then possibly there might be changes landing after the ff.
<xnox> Riddell: yes. The automatic partitioning is done, and you can start implementing the Qt front-end changes.
<skaet> xnox,  please make sure well documented, so that we can make sure testing lines up with it.
<skaet> will follow up on the rest by email (when I scrub my inbox to find that message :/ )
<skaet> ..
<xnox> skaet: yes. I have started discussions to enable automatic testing of ecryption in jenkins, and I will be adding manual iso test cases soon as well (next week)
<xnox> ..
<skaet> xnox,  thanks!  :)
<skaet> Riddell,  your turn now
<Riddell> Canonical server are having some downtime this weekend, will that affect CD build?
<ogra_> doesnt it already  ?
<stgraber> Riddell: I don't think so, the builders have been moved yesterday
<ogra_> yeah
<Riddell> that makes life easier
<ogra_> well, there is still enough to do for them and bad things can always happen :)
<ogra_> ..
<skaet> cron jobs are running again at least.
<skaet> ..
<Riddell> ..
<skaet> kenvandine,  the new xserver breaking NVIDIA,   who's on point to get this resolved?
<stgraber> Riddell: just confirmed, nusakan is on the "stay in GS2" list and the rest was already moved, so not expecting any CD build failure this weekend.
<stgraber> ..
<skaet> thanks stgraber.  :)
<skaet> ..
<kenvandine> skaet, i think tseliot
<skaet> Given the scope of machines potentially involved and beta 1 coming up,  is there plans to roll back if we don't have a fix in place?
<skaet> before beta 1 freeze?
<kenvandine> not that i am aware of
<kenvandine> but i'll make a note of it for seb128
<skaet> thanks kenvandine :)
<skaet> ..
<ogra_> iirc the plan (picked up from another channel) is to rebuild with the 13 ABI dropped, that will make the packlage uninstallable until it is fixed
<ogra_> ..
<skaet> thanks ogra_
<skaet> popey,  will this likely impact your team's development?
<popey> which bit skaet ?
<skaet> (ie. do a lot of them have nvidia boxes?)
<popey> we have a mix
<skaet> new xserve not working with NVIDIA
<popey> mostly not nvidia
<kenvandine> unity developers rely heavily on nvidia
<smartboyhw> I like AMD
<ogra_> they could all just switch to pandaboards !
<kenvandine> last time this happened, unity lost like 3 weeks of productive development time
<ogra_> oh, wait, no driver for that either ...
<ogra_> ..
 * skaet resists getting into the unity 2D/3D discussion...
<kenvandine> ogra_, you're funny :)
<popey> skaet, most of my guys are intel/amd people, unity guys afaict are mostly intel
 * ogra_ likes how we fill the chasm with a landfill of non-GL capable computers to make our users get over it 
<popey> unless kenvandine knows better
<ogra_> :P
<ogra_> ..
<popey> ..
<kenvandine> popey, unless things changed... mostly nvidia
 * xnox wants to know the post code location of that landfill.....
<kenvandine> DBO, jay, macslow, etc
<kenvandine> mostly the GL guys
<popey> ok
<kenvandine> they all live and breathe nvidia
<skaet> kenvandine,  thanks,  yeah,  please raise the possibility of reverting with seb128
<kenvandine> skaet, noted
<skaet> ..
<skaet> popey,  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1008918 is showing up on our tracking list of one that needs to be fixed, but I'm not seeing it on your list of bugs working on.   Can you look at adding it to the active list?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1008918 in unity (Ubuntu Quantal) "wrong display in dashboard after first time clicking the dashboard button" [High,Confirmed]
<popey> i see lukasz requested more info
<skaet> gema, ^
<popey> ok skaet
<popey> ..
<gema> skaet: ?
<skaet> gema,  bug on unity QA reported is waiting on an question answer
<ogra_> looks like thats against unity-2d though ... isnt that unsupported now ?
<gema> skaet: no worries we will get that moving
<skaet> thanks gema,  popey.  :)
 * skaet wondering if any one else has questions?
<skaet> if not...
<stgraber> just got a quick one
<skaet> just a reminder we Feature Freeze for 12.10 at 2100 next Thursday.     Release Note Freeze for 12.04.1
<skaet> on 2100 next Monday.
<skaet> go stgraber.  :)
<stgraber> for kernel, I noticed that bug 1021471 was reproduced by Clint yesterday, would be good if it could be prioritized and looked into as it's affecting quite a few people running lxc apparently
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1021471 in linux (Ubuntu) "stuck on mutex_lock creating a new network namespace when starting a container" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1021471
<skaet> ogasawara, ^
 * ogasawara will take a look
<stgraber> I poked about it a few meetings back but we stopped getting reproducers since then until yesterday when Clint poked me about it
<stgraber> ..
<stgraber> ogasawara: thanks
<skaet> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Aug 17 15:50:28 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-17-15.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-17-15.00.html
<xnox> thanks
<smartboyhw> thanks
 * ogra_ hugs skaet 
<skaet> Thanks stgraber, popey, gema, ogra_, xnox, cjwatson, kenvandine,  Riddell , scott-work, ogasawara , balloons, gema, gilir, smartboyhw
<popey> \o/
<popey> thanks skaet
<kenvandine> thanks skaet
 * skaet hugs ogra_ back.  :)   
<skaet> have a good weekend all.
<kenvandine> you too
<ogra_> you too !
<stgraber> thanks!
<skaet> thanks arosales
<smartboyhw> YEAH!
 * skaet just noticed missed on earlier thanks 
<arosales> thanks skaet for chairing :-)
<jdstrand> bye!
<skaet> thanks jdstrand  :)
<smartboyhw> Bye!
<seb128> skaet, kenvandine: I'm back, reverting what?
<kenvandine> nvidia
<seb128> I had a chat with the #ubuntu-x guys about nvidia this morning
<kenvandine> breaking the ABI or something
<skaet> seb128, xserve until we get an nvidia fix
<seb128> skaet, kenvandine: reverting 60 xorg packages? ahah, good one
<kenvandine> remember the last time this happened?
<seb128> yes, that's why I went to rant on #ubuntu-x
<kenvandine> and the unity team lost 3 weeks of work?
<seb128> they told me it's #ubuntu-release who wanted to copy to quantal
<seb128> I'm not totally happy that #ubuntu-release forced the copy to quantal knowing that was broken
<seb128> I know the argument is "proposed is not meant for avoid breakages"
<seb128> but still
<kenvandine> yeah
<seb128> anyway tseliot said he had a driver update and he would aim at verifying it works and uploading to quantal today
<kenvandine> it was some level of protection though
<kenvandine> ok
<kenvandine> good
<kenvandine> thx seb
<kenvandine> seb128, the other question skaet had was about bug 1022927
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1022927 in brltty (Ubuntu) "Upgrade tests failed: obsolete files left after the upgrade" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1022927
<kenvandine> tagged rls-q-incoming but not targetted
<Laney> proposed isn't meant to be used that way indeed, but since it /was/ discovered, we should have used that data ...
<seb128> Laney, indeed, that's my point
<Laney> but I don't blame whoever did the copy
<Laney> someone should have asked for it to be removed from proposed
<seb128> #ubuntu-release decided to break quantal nvidia users for the sake of making an argument about not using proposed this way
 * xnox pulled one borked update out of -proposed and didn't let it be copied into quantal-release. But infinity was friendly enough to me & made the removal
<seb128> whoever did the copy knew it would screw nvidia users
<Laney> pretty sure it wasn't intentional
<seb128> I pointed it to them last week
<skaet> seb128, who in #ubuntu-release?
<seb128> skaet, I don't know, but yesterday I read infinity making a comment about taking a axe and breaking xorg
<Laney> if launchpad would stop oopsing then i could find out
<seb128> so I guess him ;-)
<Laney> yeah that's right
<skaet> seb128,  ack.
<Laney> I don't think he was referring to breaking it for users to teach people a lesson though.
<Laney> but I'll leave you to discuss it ;-)
<seb128> and I'm sure infinity knew nvidia was broken
<Laney> ttyl
<seb128> he discussed that transition with tjaalton this week and I pointed the nvidia issue last week
<seb128> Laney, see you
<ScottK> I think it's flat out wrong to gate a free software development project on availability of binary blobs.
<seb128> ScottK, it's flat wrong to break nvidia users without at least publishing a warning before about what is going to happen and what they should do
<ScottK> Nah.  People who depend on binary blobs are stuck running at their own risk.
<ScottK> Even post release they can get broken without warning.
<seb128> no they are not
<seb128> or find me where we there is a project statement saying so
<seb128> we have a checkbox in our installer
<ScottK> It's inherent in running a blob.
<seb128> and it's not flagged as "this option might stop working any time"
<seb128> no it's not
<ScottK> There's no way we can guarantee things will work.
<seb128> it's easy enough to deal with those
<seb128> we control when we do xorg abi transitions
<seb128> and we know the state of the drivers at the time we decide
<ScottK> Where is it stated as policy that X updates in the development release require non-free support before landing?
<seb128> ScottK, in the "no regression, usable every day" statement
<ScottK> The only way to do that is never land anything.
<ScottK> That's marketing, not policy.
<seb128> I've argued enough, we perfectly knew the state of that transition
<seb128> it's not even something you can argue over
<ScottK> Yes and I think it was fine.
<ScottK> How long would you have waited?
<ScottK> Past feature freeze?
<seb128> until at least somebody dropped the abi: 13 from the nvidia driver
<seb128> which is a buggy claim
<seb128> and lead those user to get the upgrade
<seb128> rather than having it put on hold
<seb128> it's a one line fix
<seb128> I don't buy your "we couldn't do that"
<ScottK> For how long has someone not done that?
<ScottK> If it's so easy, then I don't understand why it's not done.
<seb128> that's an orthogonal issue and worth figuring as well yes
<ScottK> I agree if there's an easy fix, it should be done and should have been done.
<ScottK> All I was aware of was "not compatible" which generally means an upstream update of the blob is needed.
<ScottK> Those I think there's no point in waiting on.
<seb128> that's another discussion and I disagree with you
<seb128> or we should at least announce that properly when it happens and we knew about it
<seb128> some people did a pretty bad communication job here
<ScottK> I won't argue about communication.  I agree about warning.  I disagree about waiting.
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-08-12
<jjohansen> \o
<mdeslaur> \o
<tyhicks> hello
<jdstrand> hi!
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Aug 12 16:58:40 2013 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<jdstrand> Colin Watson (cjwatson) provided debdiffs for precise-raring for putty. Your work is very much appreciated and will keep Ubuntu users secure. Great job! :)
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I'm on triage this week
<jdstrand> I've got openstack updates to do
<jdstrand> I need to test the latest upstart-app-launch
<jdstrand> I want to implement the xdg user dir support in apparmor
<jdstrand> I need to sync up with sarnold on code audits and give some to him since he is actually pretty good at completing them :)
<jdstrand> I have a number of follow-ups on application confinement discussions
<jdstrand> and patch piloting
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm on community this week
<mdeslaur> I have a couple of updates that need testing
<mdeslaur> so I'll be doing that to try and get them released
<mdeslaur> I'll also try and get the list down a bit since I go on vacation next week
<mdeslaur> that's it for me
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up
<sbeattie> I'm on apparmor again this week
<sbeattie> I'm currently trying to sort out what's going on after being gone on holiday and at black hat
<sbeattie> I have a bug or two in click-apparmor to fix
<jdstrand> sbeattie: we should sync up
<sbeattie> I also have a couple of black hat related items (expenses, trip report) to do
<sbeattie> jdstrand: yeah
<sbeattie> so that's pretty much it for me.
<sbeattie> tyhicks: you're up
<jdstrand> sbeattie: I took the liberty of making a few small changes to click-apparmor in support of the MIR request that I filed last week
<sbeattie> jdstrand: kewl
<tyhicks> This morning, I'll be preparing debdiffs against apparmor and dbus for AppArmor D-Bus mediation
<jdstrand> sbeattie: you might want to pull 0.1.0 from the archive into your branch and review (btw, is there an official home for it?)
 * tyhicks pauses
<sbeattie> jdstrand: not really outside of the +junk tree I have
<sbeattie> we can move it to a more formal location under the security team
<jdstrand> I think we may want to have it live somewhere, but we can talk somewhere else
<jdstrand> yeah
<sbeattie> yeah, sounds good
<jdstrand> tyhicks: please proceed
<mdeslaur> help the homeless
 * sbeattie presses play on tyhicks
<tyhicks> :)
<tyhicks> This morning, I'll be preparing debdiffs against apparmor and dbus for AppArmor D-Bus mediation
<tyhicks> (yeah, yeah, you've heard that before but it is for real this time :)
<mdeslaur> hehe
<tyhicks> jjohansen will be pushing a kernel patch out that enables it for all Saucy users - until then, the dbus-dev PPA kernel will still be needed for mediation to be enabled
<jdstrand> tyhicks: you mean fr saucy upload?
<tyhicks> jdstrand: yep
<jdstrand> \o/
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: don't celebrate yet, it's a trap :P
<tyhicks> hehe
<mdeslaur> :)
<tyhicks> Then I'll be working on my content-hub work items
<jdstrand> you'll want to be prepared for everyone saying you broke everything :P
<tyhicks> yeah, I'll probably need to plan in some support response time
<jdstrand> probably a good idea
<tyhicks> I imagine there will be questions
<tyhicks> hopefully not too many bugs
<tyhicks> After that, I'll work with jjohansen to add necessary APIs to libapparmor that allow trusted helpers to operate on AppArmor label sets
<jdstrand> well, there may be no bugs-- doesn't mean you won't get blamed :P
<tyhicks> true :)
<tyhicks> Finally, I need to revise the dbus regression tests in the apparmor source tree for upstream approval and I also need to add tests for proper apparmor delegation when passing fds over dbus
 * jdstrand was referring to that scenario in his initial comment :)
<tyhicks> I think that's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> I'm on apparmor again as well,
<jjohansen> I've got to finish fixing a bug in the replacedby logic that is causing crashes when we enable compound labels,
<jjohansen> I need to: look into the 3.11 flink/linkat changes http://lwn.net/Articles/562488/, push the kernel patch for the label query that dbus needs, deal with bug 1202161, prepare for tuesdays apparmor meeting, and then perhaps get back to the current apparmor work items
<ubottu> bug 1202161 in linux (Ubuntu) "seccomp filter: execve(): Operation not permitted" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1202161
<tyhicks> jjohansen: Good! I've been meaning to make sure you're aware of flink/linkat
<tyhicks> I couldn't think of any potential problems for apparmor, but I'm sure that you can :)
<jjohansen> tyhicks: well I remember seeing it, and making my self a note that got lost in all the other notes
<jjohansen> yes it is going to rework some work around our link rules
<jjohansen> but, I need to trace the security hooks because I don't think they are sufficient to mediate it
<jjohansen> or more correctly currently only the inode hook is, mediating it
<tyhicks> ah
<jjohansen> anyways that it from me sarnold your up
<jdstrand> sarnold: hold on a sec
<jdstrand> jjohansen: I didn't recognize the IPC work items in your list this week-- would it be helpful/possible to shuffle some work around to free up some time?
<jjohansen> jdstrand: sorry that is the "current apparmor work items" bit
<jdstrand> jjohansen: related: flink/linkat is for 3.11-- are we going to ship 3.11 in 13.10 and if not, is that something we can/should put on the backburner for a bit?
<jjohansen> jdstrand: saucy will be 3.11
<jdstrand> ok
<jjohansen> that isn't to say I won't go only as far as getting the info to file a bug on this item for this week, and deal with it later
<jdstrand> oh, why was I thinking we had 3.10 still
<tyhicks> I think the switch just happened
<jdstrand> oh, hah, cause it happened today :)
<jjohansen> jdstrand: no the switch happened last week when tim rebased to -rc4
<jjohansen> we had issues in the 3.11 kernel where I couldn't even get the machine to boot in -rc2, and the kt was shaking out a couple issues in -rc3
<jdstrand> maybe-- but I see 3.10.0-6.17 was only superceded a little while ago
<jdstrand> (in saucy release)
<jdstrand> anyhoo, doesn't matter
<jdstrand> superseded
<jdstrand> jjohansen: so, aiui, you've got the stuff you listed and you don't think it will take an inordinate amount of time (something that will take longer will be planned/done later) and you plan to work on ipc still?
<jdstrand> is that accurate?
<jjohansen> jdstrand: yes
<jdstrand> ok, cool, thanks. sorry if I was being dense :)
<jdstrand> sarnold: you're up
<sarnold> I'm in the happy place the week; I've got (at least one) MIR audit (click-apparmor), and I've grabbed an update for maas to do. I may steal some of jdstrand's MIR audits as needed.
<sarnold> and of course, if there are apparmor patches posted, reviewing them will be my top priority.
<sarnold> I believe that's me
<sarnold> chrisccoulson: you're up
<chrisccoulson> hi
<chrisccoulson> last week, i got firefox and thunderbird out. everything's been pretty quiet since then, which I'll assume is a good thing :)
<jdstrand> \o/
<mdeslaur> chrisccoulson: did you see my critical firefox bug?
<sarnold> \o/
<chrisccoulson> also, i added support for multiple browser contexts to oxide, which hopefully means that it's possible to have webviews with different profile folders now :)
<jdstrand> neat :)
<sbeattie> \o/
<mdeslaur> \o/
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: that reminds me, I owe you and ubuntu-devel@ an email regarding oxide
<sarnold> very cool :)
<jdstrand> (that was one of the things I was planning to follow-up on this week)
<chrisccoulson> i'm still working on the user script support, which i plan to continue this week. i wanted to get the browser context stuff out of the way first, as i'm making user scripts per-context rather than per-webview, and i didn't want to have to refactor everything later on :)
<chrisccoulson> i'm  not sure if anyone has been following https://code.launchpad.net/~chrisccoulson/oxide/oxide.trunk ?
<sarnold> sorry, no
<chrisccoulson> that's ok ;)
<chrisccoulson> i think that's me done
<mdeslaur> chrisccoulson: wow, a lot of work in there
<chrisccoulson> mdeslaur, yeah, it's slowly getting there :)
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/ngircd.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/glusterfs.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/shibboleth-sp2.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/qpid-python.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/darktable.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> sarnold pointed out that the community supported drupal7 packages could use some attention on earlier released (particularly 12.04). See http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/drupal7.html for details.
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, tyhicks, jjohansen, sarnold, ChrisCoulson: thanks!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Aug 12 17:37:21 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-08-12-16.58.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-08-12-16.58.html
<tyhicks> thanks
<jjohansen> thanks jdstrand
<sarnold> thanks jdstrand
 * pinky is away: Away
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
<barry> !dmb-ping
<ubottu> bdrung, ScottK, Laney, micahg, barry, tumbleweed, stgraber: DMB ping
<micahg-work> was any non-DMB member here for the DMB meeting?
<ScottK> \0
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-08-13
<barry> lool: are we meeting today?
 * ogra_ doesnt have anything 
<barry> ogra_: me neither; was on vaca last week
<lool> ogra_: Sorry, on leave today; I marked my attendance as no on the meeting, but should have sent a message notifying my absence; just wanted to leave the meeting in case you folks had stuff to discuss
 * lool returns to holiday
<ogra_> lool, no worries, enjoy your vacation
<jamespage> o/
<hallyn_> o/
<rbasak> \o
<Daviey> o/
<Daviey> I think smoser is out today.
<Daviey> hallyn_: You seem to be next in the chain?
<jamespage> arosales is filling the seat today
<Daviey> Ah, Super!
<arosales> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Aug 13 16:02:27 2013 UTC.  The chair is arosales. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<arosales> Hello, looks like we have jamespage, hallyn_ rbasak and Daviey here for the Server team meeting
<jamespage> o/
<arosales> feel free to wave if others are here
<arosales> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<roaksoax> o/ (wihyt internet connectivity problems)
<arosales> ACTION: rbasak to land delta report to lp:ubuntu-reports, Daviey to deploy.
<rbasak> It's landed.
<arosales> rbasak, Daviey ^
<rbasak> Daviey: to deploy?
<rbasak> IIRC, there was a problem with the environment it's running in
<arosales> hmm so there still be an action for Daviey
<rbasak> Oh no, it looks like it's working.
<rbasak> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/merges.html
<arosales> ah ok
<arosales> ACTION: arosales to review Juju blueprints with owners after OSCON.
<arosales> :-/
<arosales> still an action for me
<Daviey> rbasak: deployed?
<arosales> #action arosales to update Juju blueprints
<meetingology> ACTION: arosales to update Juju blueprints
<rbasak> Daviey: yeah, looks good. Thanks!
<arosales> #topic Saucy Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Saucy Development
<arosales> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/ReleaseSchedule
<arosales> so we have 12.04.3 coming up
<arosales> Aug 22nd
<arosales> jamespage, any actions for server for 12.04.3?
<jamespage> thats like 9 days ware
<jamespage> arosales, hrm yes
<arosales> any we need to call out here?
<jamespage> arosales, we need to sweepup on dkms packages
<arosales> volunteers?
<jamespage> Daviey, smb: was anything agreed in-conjunction with the kernel team in this area?
<Daviey> jamespage: I believe not
<rbasak> I spoke to the kernel team at their sprint. AIUI, we (server team) need to fix the relevant packages. I think we need to improve the messaging over defaults and things, which I will follow up on.
<smb> jamespage, Not that we agreed more that telling you they are broken (or better jibl does)
<jamespage> https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/DKMS/view/Precise%20Proposed%20-generic-lts-raring/
<smb> We have been looking at some of them during the sprint
<jamespage> they are broken
<jamespage> OK _ I'll pickup openvswitch is someone else can grab iscsitarget
<jamespage> (iscsitarget should be a little easier/lower impact)
<arosales> iscsitarget up for grabs, get it while its hot
<smb> jamespage, I am pretty sure I did update openvswitch
<jamespage> smb, for the 3.11 kernel in saucy right?
<smb> Though in Saucy
<smb> yeah
<jamespage> smb, saucy has 1.10.1 which is pretty close for 3.10 support
<jamespage> precise has 1.4 which is way off
<arosales> #action jamespage to clean-up  openvswitch packaging for 12.04.3
<meetingology> ACTION: jamespage to clean-up  openvswitch packaging for 12.04.3
<arosales> jamespage, is that the correct action item?
<jamespage> arosales, yep
<arosales> ok any takes for iscsitarget?
<arosales> jamespage thanks for volunteering for openvswitch
<arosales> roaksoax, ?
<arosales> roaksoax, I'll assign to you for now just so it has an owner, please feel free to delegate as necessary
<arosales> #action roaksoax to clean-up iscsitarget packaging for 12.04.3
<meetingology> ACTION: roaksoax to clean-up iscsitarget packaging for 12.04.3
<roaksoax> arosales: here! (sorry having inet issues)
<hallyn_> (i'll note down to take a look later this week if it's still open)
<arosales> hallyn_, thanks
<arosales> #action hallyn_ to confirm iscsitarget packaging done
<meetingology> ACTION: hallyn_ to confirm iscsitarget packaging done
<arosales> so for Saucy
<arosales> we have feature freeze coming up
<arosales> do folks have in all MIR requests, and large package updates?
<arosales> jamespage, Daviey know of any items we need to review here?
<arosales> FF is on Aug 29 for 13.10, btw
<roaksoax> i need processing from the new queue for 'dlm'
<roaksoax> Daviey: if you could please review that it would be greatly appreciated
<jamespage> zul, Daviey: whats the status on mariadb/percona
<arosales> #action Daviey to review 'dlm' in new queue for Saucy
<meetingology> ACTION: Daviey to review 'dlm' in new queue for Saucy
<jamespage> any chance they will make that date?
<Daviey> roaksoax: Please ping me after the meeting, OTP
<zul> jamespage:  unchanged afaik
<arosales> zul, so unlikely to make it, or should we push in the next couple of weeks?
<arosales> zul ok to action you with a follow up?
<zul> arosales:  yeah
<arosales> #action zul to follow up on  mariadb/percona making it into Saucy
<meetingology> ACTION: zul to follow up on  mariadb/percona making it into Saucy
<arosales> zul, thanks
<arosales> any Saucy packages we should discuss here?
<arosales> any other, that is.
<Daviey> zul: Can you grab me about that action pls?  Need to fill you in.
<zul> Daviey:  ack
<arosales> I'll take it that covers the ones, and we should be able to catch others in the upcoming bugs and blueprint review.
<arosales> #subtopic Release Bugs
<arosales> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-s-tracking-bug-tasks.html#server
<arosales> going down the list sorted by importance being at the top for ubuntu-server
<arosales> we have 13 bugs
<arosales> http://launchpad.net/bugs/1175028
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1175028 in mongodb (Ubuntu Saucy) "Mongodb links GPL code with SSL" [Critical,Fix committed]
<arosales> ah sorry that is fix commited
<jamespage> yeah - almost there with that
<arosales> http://launchpad.net/bugs/1084028 in progress
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1084028 in openvswitch (Ubuntu Saucy) "openvswitch based interfaces not started in time during boot" [High,In progress]
<jamespage> that won't make it this cycle now
<arosales> jamespage, ah :-/ ok, but thanks for the update.
<arosales> http://launchpad.net/bugs/1156932
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1156932 in python-novaclient (Ubuntu Saucy) "User can't modify security-group-rule via nova-api if there are duplicated security group name" [High,Confirmed]
<arosales> zul,  ^
<arosales> looks confirmed
<arosales> but not certain what the current status is for Saucy
<arosales> actually needs an owner
<arosales> zul, would that be something you can look into?
<zul> arosales:  erm...yeah
<arosales> zul, feel free to pass or reassign if necessary. Just thought it should have an owner with the tags and priority on the bug.
<arosales> zul, thanks
<arosales> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nova/+bug/1199791
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1199791 in nova (Ubuntu Saucy) "nova-compute-xcp misses nova-compute.conf" [High,Triaged]
<arosales> next one is yours too zul.
<zul> arosales:  need to do that
<arosales> zul thanks
<arosales> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/samba/+bug/1206872
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1206872 in samba (Ubuntu Saucy) "samba fails to unpack (behavior change in patch) and ftbfs on aarch64" [High,Confirmed]
<arosales> samba
 * zul whistles
<jamespage> that needs a merge from debian
<jamespage> any volunteers?
<jamespage> I'd leave the aarch64 updates for the reporter :-)
<arosales> rbasak, your sharpening your debian skills right
<arosales> :-)
<rbasak> I'd love to do it, but I'm concerned that I have too much on my todo list right now, and won't get round to it.
<jamespage> OK - I'll stick it on my list for this week - I've done it a few times now
<jamespage> that should keep the overheads down
<arosales> jamespage, thanks
<jamespage> if I disappear for any reason someone else can pick it up
<arosales> jamespage, sounds good
<zul> jamespage:  just stick your todo list somewhere before you go
<arosales> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1208455
<jamespage> zul, ok
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1208455 in linux (Ubuntu Saucy) "general protection fault running apt-get inside double nested kvm VM" [High,In progress]
<arosales> no owner for saucy
<arosales> hallyn_, any suggestions ^
<hallyn_> arosales: it's a kernel bug, i'd expect jsalisbury or smb would be interested int aking it
<smb> I think we were sort of waiting for james hunt
<smb> Now that 3.11 hit the archive he may test with all 3 on 3.11
<arosales> smb, thnks, sounds like it is still moving
<hallyn_> arosales: i generally find those bugs don't need an owner next to them for kernel team to watch them closely, fwiw
 * arosales will finish up the medium bugs and then we can move on. Just wanted to step through the bugs as we approach FF.
<arosales> hallyn_, ack thanks
<arosales> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-quantumclient/+bug/1170849
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1170849 in python-quantumclient (Ubuntu Saucy) "Cliff 1.3.2 is not available " [Medium,Triaged]
<arosales> looks like adam_g commented here
<arosales> troubles reproducing, awaiting reporter feedback
<arosales> hmm
<arosales> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openvswitch/+bug/1189408
<jamespage> its a trunk testing PPA bug - marked invalid
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1189408 in openvswitch (Ubuntu) "1.10 FTBFS on powerpc (lacp test failure)" [Medium,New]
<arosales> I thought powerpc was gonig away
<jamespage> arosales, thats non critical - I took the saucy task off just now
<hallyn_> i think it's coming back :)
<arosales> jamespage, thanks on both bugs
<arosales> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mysql-5.5/+bug/1203828
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1203828 in mysql-5.5 (Ubuntu Saucy) "mysql 5.5.32, 5.1.70 security update tracking bug" [Medium,Confirmed]
<arosales> do these get picked up auto-magically or do we need some one to manually intervene for Saucy?
 * arosales wonder if the security team picks these up. . .  .
<jamespage> they do
<rbasak> I think so. They just fall into our triage list.
<arosales> ack
<arosales> that closes out the medium or >
<arosales> thanks for stepping through that :-)
<arosales> #subtopic Blueprints
<arosales> #link http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-s/group/topic-s-servercloud-overview.html
<arosales> burndown looks crazy
<arosales> overall we are in the red :-/
<arosales> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-juju-charmhelper2 needs some attention with marco returns
<arosales> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-openstack-charms-ha-v2
<jamespage> alot of that is in progress or done
 * arosales hitting red BPs
<arosales> jamespage, thanks
<arosales> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-openstack-hypervisor
<arosales> 0%
<arosales> zul, ^
<zul> gah i need to update that
<arosales> zul ok thanks
<hallyn_> arosales: remind me, are these things being measured against completion in august, or in october?
<arosales> hallyn_, October
<hallyn_> ok
<arosales> at least that is what the series goal is set to
<arosales> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-openstack-hypervisor
<arosales> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-ceph
<arosales> sorry wrong paste
<arosales> jamespage, looks like cep is on track for August
<jamespage> arosales, looking OK
<jamespage> dumping rc in saucy
<arosales> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-webscale ok too?
<jamespage> that sounds odd
<jamespage> arosales, no
<arosales> ya got a couple blocked
<arosales> sorry nginx is blocked
<jamespage> arosales, thats to late now
<jamespage> arosales, I'm going to cancel that entire blueprint
<arosales> jamespage, wan to postpone the rest of the work items?
<arosales> or still a bit too early for that?
<jamespage> its kicked around for two cycles now so can't be that important
<jamespage> utlemming, are you likely to find time to work on the webscale WI for nginx?
<arosales> utlemming, also got some work items out for you in cloud-init in https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-cloud-init
<utlemming> jamepage: not for webscale
<jamespage> utlemming, guessed so
<jamespage> arosales, I've deferred that entire blueprint
<arosales> jamespage, perhaps we can find some more cycles outside of server to do some more "web scale" packaging. I know it would be a plus to get more packages charms use into the archive
<utlemming> jamepages: for the ci work, I have done some stuff
<utlemming> jamespage: I just need to update that
<arosales> utlemming, when you have an opp could you also update the cloud init BP?
<arosales> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-openstack-qa
<utlemming> arosales: sure thing
<arosales> utlemming, thanks
<arosales> zul, looks to be in progress
<arosales> got a few TODOs there though still
<arosales> Daviey, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-interlock
<arosales> jamespage, mongo looking ok
<arosales> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-mongodb
<jamespage> arosales, ok-ish
<jamespage> the MIR is proving challenging tbh
<arosales> ya, you fought a pretty good battle around the licensing though
<arosales> thanks for your work there.
<jamespage> arosales, that should be sorted by 5th sept
<arosales> simplestreams, probably need to wait for smoser on that
<jamespage> upstream are also engaging on the MIR stuff as well re security team concerns
<arosales> jamespage, good to hear
<arosales> ah good to know
<arosales> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-juju-contributor-onramp needs an update by jcastro
<arosales> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-juju-charm-testing needs an update by marco when he returns
<arosales> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-openstack-charms
<jamespage> we should DONE quite a few this week on the openstack-charms work
<jamespage> redux is going nicely
<jamespage> then we can get on with feature work
<arosales> ah, nice
<arosales> hallyn_, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-virtstack
<arosales> looks to be progressing . . .
<hallyn_> some thigns will surely be postponed yet
<arosales> ok
<arosales> nick needs to upate https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-juju-docs when he returns
<hallyn_> but i don't want to count anything out that i haven't already markdd so
<arosales> thanks for keeping it updated hallyn_
<arosales> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-cloud-archive has progress too
<hallyn_> np (did it 3 mins ago :)
<arosales> hallyn_, ha saw it coming :-)
<arosales> smart man
<arosales> utlemming, could you udpate https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-cloud-vagrant
<arosales> ok so hopefully as openstack charms get done a lot more will come out of red
<arosales> and with updates
<utlemming> arosales: ack, doing that now
<arosales> utlemming, thanks
<arosales> moving on
<arosales> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<arosales> vUDS coming up at the end of August
<arosales> http://uds.ubuntu.com/
<arosales> #link http://uds.ubuntu.com/
<arosales> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (plars)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (plars)
<plars> redirect -> psivaa
<psivaa> no updates from QA though
<arosales> plars, psivaa thanks
<arosales> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<smb> In order to prepare for uploading Xen 4.3 I started to upload packages
<smb> that rdepend on xen stuff to my ppa. Most of them looked ok. I still
<smb> would have to check nova. Is anybody doing actually using xen from
<smb> openstack who could easily test things?
<smb> The bigger problem seems to be xen-api / xen-api-libs which add a
<smb> dependency to blktap-dev which include libblktapctl.
<smb> Unfortunately Xen also has a lib of the same name (maybe the same
<smb> but older source?) which I had to package (or at least thought) into
<smb> libxen because otherwise libvirt would not be able to build the libxl
<smb> driver. Not sure which way to go there right now. Anybody knows whom
<smb> of the Citrix guys would be to contact. Still Mike?
<arosales> hallyn_, any opinions ^
<jamespage> smb, mike is still good for contact point I think
<hallyn_> arosales: no, i always defer on xen to zul and smb
<arosales> zul any time to test xen on nova?
<arosales> or just contacts for smb?
<arosales> Daviey, ^
<smb> zul, Or is that maybe also the xen-api guys?
<hallyn_> on friday i should be able to test xen on nova, fwiw, but i don't know about the citrix guys
<hallyn_> (and i'll have to wipe my lxc on nova setup to do it :)
<arosales> hallyn_, thanks, could you coordinate with smb and zul
<smb> hallyn_, Ok, maybe I have a solution for the xen-api problem by then. Maybe ping me before you go
<arosales> #action hallyn_ to coordinate with zul and smb on testing xen 4.3 on nova
<meetingology> ACTION: hallyn_ to coordinate with zul and smb on testing xen 4.3 on nova
<hallyn_> smb: yup
<arosales> hallyn_, thanks
<arosales> smb, any other topics?
<zul> arosales:   not til the end of the month
<arosales> zul, ack. Please pass on any contacts that may be helpful to smb or hallyn_
 * zul is still stuck in the middle of nowhere
<zul> arosales: ack
<arosales> smb, I'll proceed since time is running short please feel free to interject if you had other topics.
<arosales> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
<rbasak> We have highbank buildds! Build speeds for armhf should be much improved now.
<rbasak> https://launchpad.net/builders if you'd like to gaze at the small army of them.
<rbasak> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2013-August/037564.html for Colin's announcement.
<arosales> rbasak, good stuff
<rbasak> Nothing else to report. Any questions for me?
<arosales> rbasak, thanks for the update
<arosales> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<arosales> I forgot to mention there will be a charm school this Friday
<arosales> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<arosales> sorry wrong past
<arosales> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date and time
<arosales> NEXT MEETING: Tuesday 2013-08-20 at 1600 UTC - #ubuntu-meeting
<arosales> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Aug 13 16:57:46 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-08-13-16.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-08-13-16.02.html
<arosales> thanks jamespage, smb, hallyn_ rbasak  zul utlemming roaksoax Daviey psivaa and plars for jonimg
<arosales> *joining
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Aug 13 17:01:02 2013 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Saucy
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<rtg> o/
<sconklin> o/
<bjf> o/
<arges> o/
<henrix> o/
<smb>  /o
<kamal> o/
<ogasawara> o/
<sforshee> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<jsalisbury> No new update this week.
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/~canonical-kernel-distro-team/+upcomingwork
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-s/canonical-kernel-distro-team.html
<ogasawara> || apw       || foundations-1305-arm64-bringup || 2 work items ||
<ogasawara> || ppisati   || foundations-1305-kernel        || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> || sforshee  || pm-system-policy               || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> || smb       || servercloud-s-virtstack        || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Saucy Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Saucy Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> We have decided to target the v3.11 kernel for Saucy.  As such, we have
<ogasawara> uploaded a new Saucy kerel based on the v3.11-rc5 upstream kernel.
<ogasawara> We'll continue following the -rc and final releases for v3.11 and plan
<ogasawara> to pick up the extended upstream stable maintenance for the duration of Saucy's support cycle.
<ogasawara> -----
<ogasawara> Additionally, I want to point out that the 12.04.3 point release is
<ogasawara> approaching on Thurs Aug 22, ie ~1 week from now.  Only the most
<ogasawara> critical of bug fixes would warrant a respin at this time.
<ogasawara> -----
<ogasawara> Lastly, I wanted to add a reminder that Virtual UDS is 2 weeks away, Aug
<ogasawara> 27-29.  If there are important topics neeing discussed be sure to file a
<ogasawara> blueprint and get a session scheduled.  I'll likely only plan on holding
<ogasawara> a single generic kernel catch-all session.
<ogasawara> -----
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/ReleaseSchedule
<ogasawara> Thurs Aug 22 - 12.04.3 (~1 week away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Aug 29 - Beta 1 freeze (~2 weeks away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Sep 05 - Beta 1 (~3 weeks away)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's (bjf)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's (bjf)
<bjf> The current CVE status can be reviewed at the following link:
<bjf>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Raring/Quantal/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/sconklin)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Raring/Quantal/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/sconklin)
<bjf> Status for the main kernels, until today (July 23):
<bjf>   *   Lucid - Not participating
<bjf>   * Precise - Regression testing
<bjf>   * Quantal - Re-spinning
<bjf>   * Raring  - Re-spinning
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Aug 13 17:05:39 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-08-13-17.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-08-13-17.01.html
<kamal> thanks jsalisbury
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-08-14
 * barry wonders if there will be a meeting today
 * bdmurray doesn't think so
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-08-15
<freeflying> rrrrrrr
<freeflying>      /win 24
<dholbach> o/
<YokoZar> Good morning :)
<dholbach> how are you all doing?
<dholbach> who do we have here from the doc team?
<dsmythies> Doug Smythies is here from oc tem
<dholbach> hi dsmythies
<pleia2> o/
<dholbach> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Aug 15 17:05:02 2013 UTC.  The chair is dholbach. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<YokoZar> Excellent :)
<dholbach> #chair dholbach pleia2 YokoZar beuno czajkowski
<meetingology> Current chairs: YokoZar beuno czajkowski dholbach pleia2
<dholbach> #topic Meeting the Doc team
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Meeting the Doc team
<dholbach> hey dsmythies - thanks a lot for turning up
<dholbach> how are you doing?
<dsmythies> fine. Things are proceeding, but slowly.
<pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/GettingStarted was recently rewritten, so that's a start
<dholbach> the Docs team underwent sort of a transition recently - how are things looking? :)
<pleia2> unfortunately the team still lacks solid leadership, so decisions mill around a bit
<dholbach> which topics are currently under discussion?
<YokoZar> The CC is still a "member" of the docs team, isn't it?
<pleia2> YokoZar: yeah
<pleia2> we own it
<dsmythies> Yes, CC owns it, but we have a transition plan
<dsmythies> where step 1 was adding new admins
<pleia2> dsmythies: a few have been added, do you see a clear person to take over as owner?
<dsmythies> No, I don't.
<pleia2> that's how I feel too
<YokoZar> I believe pleia2 has been most on top of the transition, and I do thank her :)
<dholbach> are there lots of important subjects which mill around?
<pleia2> bkerensa got off to a good start, but he seems pretty over-committed right now
<dsmythies> we seem a bit stalled on the new "getting started" page.
<pleia2> yeah, it did get moved over but there are still some outstanding comments about it
<dsmythies> for my part of it, I have been busy with smething else.
<bkerensa> pleia2: very accurate
<dsmythies> For serverguide, we have good plans going forward, which Peter M has put into a blueprint.
<bkerensa> pleia2:  I think things will slow down shortly on my other commitments though and allow more time for docs
<pleia2> so I think the main problem is that even the new key people involved are very busy :)
<dholbach> would it help to ask past committers to lp:ubuntu-docs for a review of the getting started page?
<pleia2> dsmythies: server guide is really on top of things, great job with that :)
<bkerensa> pleia2: I think a big piece has been the ability to find people to delegate to slowed down
<pleia2> dholbach: we've bugged them to their breaking point I think, our next step is asking *new* contributors if they can effectively follow it
<bkerensa> pleia2: there was a burst of enthusiasm and then when it came to getting stuff reviewed it slowed down a bit
<dholbach> pleia2, ok... good thinking :)
<pleia2> and have a team meeting
<bkerensa> yes
<pleia2> so I'd say in all dsmythies was right on with "proceeding, but slowly.
<pleia2> thanks bkerensa
<bkerensa> Ideally once we get the getting started complete I think the tasks we have left are really quite easy for those involved to address
<bkerensa> docs is mostly maintenance
<bkerensa> maintenance + release
<dholbach> what would next steps be once the getting started page looks good and you've had a team meeting?
<pleia2> that's what we should figure out at the team meeting ;)
<dholbach> ok :)
<pleia2> the docs need to be updated for 13.10, so probably launching that effort formally
<bkerensa> dholbach: so then I would want to improve our tool sets and add a doc to the repo that shows how to do release since I am the only one who knows how
<bkerensa> :s
<bkerensa> dholbach: nobody every release documented the process so we had to ask a lot of people
<dholbach> that sounds like a good idea :)
<bkerensa> ever*
<pleia2> step 3: download bkerensa's brain
<bkerensa> also we need to fix the screenshots script
<bkerensa> we cannot update screenshots in doc until we have that fixed :/
<pleia2> yeah, that would be good
<bkerensa> Perhaps we could do a call for help on that
<pleia2> yep
<bkerensa> So I think the key things are 1. ) Keep momentum 2.) finish what we set out to do this cycle 3.) Bring in new contributors to continue momentum each cycle
<dsmythies> Actually, serverguide is quite behind, (maybe 15% of what needs to be done got done last cycle) it is just that it seems to be doing better than the desktop guide.
<dsmythies> The transition from master docs to help.ubuntu.com needs some attention also. I hope to work on it some this cycle, and have alreayd done some.
<dholbach> it's good to hear that you seem to have a good idea what's coming up next
<dholbach> is there anything the CC could do to help?
<dsmythies> I don't think so. Benjamin, what do you think?
<dholbach> it's fantastic that you all plunged in and helped getting the team back on track
<dsmythies> The gap created by Mat East and Jermey stepping back is enormous. I don't think any of us realized how much those guys did. However, they tended not to write down what they were doing, from the "committer" level.
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> I think bkerensa was able to get most of what we needed via discussion with them on specific procedures though
<dholbach> yeah, I can see how that happens :/
<bkerensa> so
<pleia2> documenting is boring :)
<bkerensa> I do not think the CC can help anymore
<dholbach> haha
<bkerensa> ultimately the CC should feel free to hold the teams hand as long as you all think its neccesary
<bkerensa> but I do not think any benefit will come from that
<bkerensa> I think pleia2 has been very helpful in encouraging the transition
<pleia2> bkerensa: do you see a clear leader to pass along team ownership to?
<bkerensa> Not currently no
<pleia2> currently that's all the CC is really doing (I'm doing this partially on my own too, less CC)
<bkerensa> yeah
<bkerensa> I do not want to see us rush into naming a new lead
<dholbach> that makes perfect sense
<pleia2> ok, so for now CC will remain owner
<bkerensa> I think it would be good to find someone when one of us feel were up to it and have demonstrated it
 * pleia2 nods
<dholbach> cool
<dholbach> thanks a bunch to all of you!
<bkerensa> thank you all
<dholbach> I don't have any more questions - anyone else from the CC?
<pleia2> thanks everyone
<dsmythies> More on the serverguide side of it, we are tryiing to write everything down, such that is we disappear what to do is clearly documented.
<dholbach> all right... seems like not
<dholbach> keep up the good work! :)
<dholbach> #topic Any other business?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Any other business?
<dholbach> Does anyone have any other topics to discuss?
<dsmythies> I just want to mention something...
<dholbach> dsmythies, sure
<dsmythies> we are hoping to post all langusges of serverguide to help.ubuntu.com for 13.10. This would then be the same as the desktop guide. Currently only english serverguide is posted. However, there are issues with some languages, that might take longer than 13.10 to sort out.
<dholbach> dsmythies, are the problems well-understood?
<dsmythies> No, at least not by me. There are bugs reports. However, my thinking was to get it wokring for all langusges first, and then proceed to fix the ones that do not convert properly.
<dholbach> ok, that's good to know - if the bugs are at least filed
<dholbach> maybe it'd help to ask for help getting them fixed in a blog entry or something?
<dsmythies> ... all in good time. Myself, I'm not there yet. I only did enough work to realize it was going to be difficult to solve.
<dholbach> ok :/
<dholbach> anything else from the docs team?
<dholbach> anyone got any other business to discuss?
<dsmythies> No.
<dholbach> thanks again! :)
<dholbach> all right then... pleia2: anything else from you?
<dholbach> oook, in that case ... :)
<dholbach> have a great rest of your day everyone
<pleia2> :)
<dholbach> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Aug 15 17:42:39 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-08-15-17.05.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-08-15-17.05.html
<dholbach> hugs!
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-08-16
<freeflying> kent1012: /win 35
<ivarela> hi, i'm translating the "ubuntu-help" template in Launchpad, and I wanted to test my translations. The problem is that i'm familiarized with .mo files in Ubuntu, ( I know that they are usually placed in /usr/share/locale-langpack/LANG/LC_MESSAGES  or /usr/share/locale/LANG/LC_MESSAGES) , but I don't find where the h*ll ubuntu-help.mo is placed. Any idea?
<ivarela> ...or any irc channel chat where I can get help? :S
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-08-11
<mdeslaur> hello
 * sbeattie waves
 * mdeslaur waits for chrisccoulson, jjohansen, sarnold and tyhicks
<chrisccoulson> I'm here
<jjohansen> \o
<tyhicks> hello
 * mdeslaur sends telepathic waves to sarnold's dog to lick his face to wake him up
<chrisccoulson> lol
<mdeslaur> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Aug 11 16:36:30 2014 UTC.  The chair is mdeslaur. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<mdeslaur> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<mdeslaur> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<mdeslaur> [TOPIC] Announcements
<mdeslaur> Thanks to the following people for their help on security updates for these community supported packages last week:
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<mdeslaur> Jonathan Riddell (Riddell) provided a debdiff for trusty for krfb (LP: #1352421)
<mdeslaur> Scott Kitterman (ScottK) provided a debdiff for trusty for reportbug (LP: #1353046)
<mdeslaur> James Page (jamespage) provided packages for trusty for mysql-5.6 (LP: #1330168)
<mdeslaur> Reinhard Tartler (siretart) provided a package for trusty for libav (LP: #1354755)
<mdeslaur> Your work is very much appreciated and will keep Ubuntu users secure. Great job! :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1352421 in krfb (Ubuntu Utopic) "possible denial of service or code execution via integer overflow" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1352421
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1353046 in reportbug (Ubuntu Lucid) "arbitrary code execution in compare_versions" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1353046
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1330168 in mysql-5.6 (Ubuntu Utopic) "Please update to 5.6.19" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1330168
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1354755 in libav (Ubuntu Trusty) "Libav security fixes Aug 2014" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1354755
<mdeslaur> ubottu: shut up
<Riddell> \o/
<jamespage> np
<mdeslaur> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<mdeslaur> I'll go first
 * ScottK waves
<mdeslaur> I'm in the happy place this week
<mdeslaur> I have some updates to test and publish, including a bunch of openstack on trusty updates
<mdeslaur> and am looking to go down the list as much as possible before I go on vacation next week
<mdeslaur> that's pretty much it from me...sbeattie, you're up
<sbeattie> I'm on apparmor this week
<sbeattie> I'm currently trying to wade through my email after being on holiday last week
 * jjohansen cheers and hands sbeattie the backend parser change work
<sbeattie> I need to sync up with jjohansen on where things stand with abstract sockets and apparmor.
<sbeattie> Heh, pretty much my plan is to dig into whatever you need help with, jjohansen.
<sbeattie> That's pretty much it for me. tyhicks?
<tyhicks> I'll be working on apparmor this week
<tyhicks> my main focus will be to land the abstract socket mediation changes when they're ready
<tyhicks> I just finished building the latest kernel changes for utopic-amd64, goldfish-i386, and mako-armhf
<tyhicks> now I'll start making system policy changes
<tyhicks> while those kernels were building, I started modifying the unix_socket_file.sh regression test to add the ability to test abstract sockets
<tyhicks> I'll wrap that up and send it out sometime this week
<tyhicks> I also need to try to refresh the dbus merge (LP: #1320422)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1320422 in dbus (Ubuntu) "Please merge dbus 1.8.2-1 (main) from Debian testing (main)" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1320422
<tyhicks> and I need to prep for LSS next week
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<mdeslaur> jjohansen: hello?
<jjohansen> I'm primarily working on landing the abstract socket mediation this week. I'll need to sync up with sbeattie and continue to fix the backend of the policy compiler
<jjohansen> hey mdeslaur
<mdeslaur> jjohansen: what's the status, is everything going along as you'd like?
<jjohansen> mdeslaur: not really, I figured out a large part of the issue was backend compiler work that I hadn't been planning on yet
<jjohansen> mdeslaur: so we are doing the shortest path update to that we can
<mdeslaur> ok
<mdeslaur> thanks
<jjohansen> I think that is it from me, sarnold you're up
<sarnold> I'm on triage this week; I've also got two MIRs, one already in flight but repeated pre-empted, the other not yet started
<sarnold> I'll review whatever patches john can come up with this week, too, and I am hoping that the filemanager PAM integration v2 might be ready for a review this week. (Though that's optimism on my part.)
<sarnold> that's it for me, chrisccoulson?
<chrisccoulson> I'm continuing to work through my RTM bugs this week (and I've potentially got one extra now - bug 1353453)
<ubottu> bug 1353453 in webbrowser-app "m.here.com doesnât close authentication page after logging in" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1353453
<chrisccoulson> I've done the most important code reviews for oxide, although I've still got some left - those aren't seriously urgent
<chrisccoulson> and I've got one update to do this week too
<chrisccoulson> that's me done :)
<mdeslaur> anyone left?
<mdeslaur> guess not
<mdeslaur> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
<mdeslaur> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<mdeslaur> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<mdeslaur> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gallery.html
<mdeslaur> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gcc-4.7-armhf-cross.html
<mdeslaur> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/inetutils.html
<mdeslaur> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/dhcpcd.html
<mdeslaur> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/xine-ui.html
<mdeslaur> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<mdeslaur> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<mdeslaur> Thanks everyone!
<mdeslaur> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Aug 11 16:53:41 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-08-11-16.36.moin.txt
<tyhicks> thanks!
<sbeattie> mdeslaur: thanks!
<sarnold> thanks mdeslaur!
<bdrung> !dmb-ping
<ubottu> bdrung, ScottK, Laney, micahg, xnox, bdmurray, stgraber: DMB ping
<bdrung> meeting?
<bdrung> oh, nothing on the agenda
<stgraber> I'm around but is there anything to meet about this week?
<bdmurray> I'm here but didn't see anything on the agenda either
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-08-12
<gaughen> yo yo yo, it's time to go!
<gnuoy> o/
<gaughen> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Aug 12 16:00:44 2014 UTC.  The chair is gaughen. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<coreycb> o/
<kickinz1> o/
<smoser> o/
<beisner> o/
<gaughen> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<gaughen> anything we need review?
<gaughen> #topic Utopic Development
<gaughen> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UtopicUnicorn/ReleaseSchedule
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Utopic Development
<gaughen> Feature Freeze is August 21
<gaughen> anybody need to file any FFEs?
<gaughen> time to get'r'done
<gaughen> smoser, jamespage anything else worth noting about the utopic release?
<gaughen> #subtopic Release Bugs
<gaughen> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-u-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<jamespage> not from mw
<jamespage> me
<gaughen> I have no chance at the land speed record for the meeting, my system is too slow
<gaughen> ah, there is the bug list
<gaughen> jamespage, there's a openvswitch bug - http://launchpad.net/bugs/1352570
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1352570 in openvswitch (Ubuntu Utopic) "ovs-vswitchd crashed with SIGSEGV in nl_attr_get_size()" [High,Triaged]
<gaughen> and this one looks interesting too - http://launchpad.net/bugs/1350810
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1350810 in byobu (Ubuntu Utopic) "Shift-F2 no longer working in Byobu in Ubuntu 14.10 (utopic) with tmux 1.9" [Critical,Triaged]
<jamespage> gaughen, indeed - that's waiting on a upstream release - emailed this morning
<gaughen> jamespage, excellent James
<jamespage> I'm pretty sure I have the commit fixing that issue id'ed but there are lots of other good things on the 2.0 branch to have under the MRE
<coreycb> jamespage, bug 1347567 is ready for a review
<ubottu> bug 1347567 in openstack-trove (Ubuntu Utopic) "trove unit tests disabled" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1347567
<jamespage> ah sorry
<jamespage> missed that
<coreycb> np!
<gaughen> anybody have the expertise for the byobu/tmux bug?
<gaughen> jamespage, could gnuoy help with that review?
<gaughen> 3
<gaughen> 2
<jamespage> gaughen, it needs a sponsor for upload
<gaughen> 1
<gaughen> aaah
<gaughen> okay, moving on
<gaughen> #subtopic Blueprints
<gaughen> #link http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-u/group/topic-u-server.html
<gaughen> #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/topic-u-server
<gaughen> keep updating those blueprints
<gaughen> I've been getting notices that folks have been updating them
<seh> kirkaland the byobu one, so that should be all right
<gaughen> seh, thanks!
<gaughen> we are still have a lot on the todo list considering where we are in the release
<gaughen> so please have a review of your blueprint. I'll make a point of pestering each of you
<gaughen> okay, next topic
<gaughen> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<gaughen> looks like caribou isn't online today
<gaughen> anybody covering for him?
<rharper> \o
<gaughen> next topic
<gaughen> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa)
<gaughen> psivaa, anything to report?
<gaughen> any questions for psivaa
<gaughen> 3
<psivaa> nothing much to report from our side gaughen
<gaughen> 2
<gaughen> just the usual awesomeness psivaa ?
<gaughen> good. keep it up!
<gaughen> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
<psivaa> yea, you could call it :)
<gaughen> :-)
<smb> Hi. Nothing from me right now.
<gaughen> thanks Stefan
<gaughen> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<gaughen> any upcoming events to note?
<gaughen> we've got "The Summit" in Paris at the start of November
<gaughen> and LinuxCon is happening at the end of this month
<seh> linuxcon, lxc sprint
<seh> no, next week
<gaughen> next week?
<seh> yup
<gaughen> seh I really need to look at the calendar
<gaughen> that means my wedding anniversary is next week :-)
<gaughen> thought I had more time
<gaughen> okay, enough about me
<seh> yikes.  but yeah, feels like february still
<gaughen> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<gaughen> anything else anybody has to say that is server-y?
<gaughen> bueller
<gaughen> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date and time
<gaughen> next week - same bat time, same bat channel
<gaughen> different bat man
<gaughen> smoser, you are up next week
<smoser> horray!
<seh> you're just trying to goad someone into saying "I'm batman" and volunteering to lead
<seh> i'd have expected it to work, too
<gaughen> you know me too well seh
<gaughen> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Aug 12 16:14:43 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-08-12-16.00.moin.txt
<kickinz1> thanks.
<gaughen> kickinz1, are you in the schedule?
<gaughen> we need to put you in there
<gnuoy> thanks gaughen
 * kickinz1 is already gone
<gaughen> gnuoy, kickinz1 you are welcome. Had hoped to beat the land speed record... but that is for another day
<kickinz1> No, I'm not in the schedule.
<gaughen> kickinz1, I am so fixing that!
<gaughen> kickinz1, I'll put you at the end... but before me
<kickinz1> ok
<arges> o/
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Aug 12 17:00:27 2014 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Utopic
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<ogasawara> o/
<rtg> o/
<sforshee> o/
<arges> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Utopic Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Utopic Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> The Utopic kernel has been rebased to v3.16 final and uploaded to the
<ogasawara> archive, ie. linux-3.13.0-7.12.  Please test and let us know your
<ogasawara> results.
<ogasawara> -----
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UtopicUnicorn/ReleaseSchedule
<ogasawara> Thurs Aug 21 - Utopic Feature Freeze (~1 week away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Sep 25 - Utopic Final Beta (~6 weeks away)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's
<jsalisbury> The current CVE status can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Trusty/Saucy/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/kamal/arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Trusty/Saucy/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/kamal/arges)
<bjf>  
<bjf> Schedule:
<bjf>  
<bjf> cycle: 08-Aug through 29-Aug
<bjf> ====================================================================
<bjf>          08-Aug   Last day for kernel commits for this cycle
<bjf> 10-Aug - 16-Aug   Kernel prep week.
<bjf> 17-Aug - 23-Aug   Bug verification & Regression testing.
<bjf> 24-Aug - 29-Aug   Regression testing & Release to -updates.
<bjf>  
<bjf>  
<bjf> cycle: 29-Aug through 29-Aug
<bjf> ====================================================================
<bjf>          29-Aug   Last day for kernel commits for this cycle
<bjf> 31-Sep - 06-Sep   Kernel prep week.
<bjf> 07-Sep - 13-Sep   Bug verification & Regression testing.
<bjf> 14-Sep - 20-Sep   Regression testing & Release to -updates.
<bjf>  
<bjf>  
<bjf> ..
<bjf> Status for the main kernels, until today (Aug. 12):
<bjf>   *   Lucid - Kernels being prep'd
<bjf>   * Precise - Kernels being prep'd
<bjf>   *  Trusty - Kernels being prep'd
<bjf>  
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>   * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>   * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/sru-report.html
<bjf>  
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Aug 12 17:04:47 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-08-12-17.00.moin.txt
<apw> jsalisbury, thanks
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-08-14
<sil2100> o/
<jodh> \o
<infinity> o/
<doko> hi
<bhuey_> hey
 * stgraber waves
<stgraber> #startmeeting Foundations team meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Aug 14 15:02:49 2014 UTC.  The chair is stgraber. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Foundations team meeting | Current topic:
<stgraber> #topic Round table
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Foundations team meeting | Current topic: Round table
<stgraber> stgraber@shell01:~$ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh bdmurray slangasek cjwatson caribou infinity mvo bhuey sil2100 robru)
<stgraber> mvo bhuey sil2100 doko cjwatson slangasek jodh bdmurray infinity stgraber caribou robru barry
<doko> mvo -> vacation
<stgraber> bhuey then
<bhuey> stgraber: give me a bit more time please
<stgraber> ok, sil2100 then
<sil2100> o/
<sil2100> - Review branches for ubuntu-keyboard in Bill's absence
<sil2100>   * Enhancements to word propositions visuals
<sil2100>   * Packaging changes branch
<sil2100> - Documenting the recent TRAINCON-0 incident
<sil2100> - More tweaking of the new TRAINCON-0 rules proposition
<sil2100> - Landing team work, landing e-mails, landing coordination - standard stuff
<sil2100> - Patch pilot duty:
<sil2100>   * Examined the iperf no-max-cpu merge - commented and closed as the fix for that has been synced from Debian already
<sil2100>   * Reviewed and uploaded new rp-pppoe upstream version
<sil2100>   * Browsing through the sponsoring queue
<sil2100> - Driving first real ubuntu-rtm landing (Unity8)
<sil2100> - CI Train maintenance and features:
<sil2100>   * Removing all dogfood workarounds for RTM
<sil2100>   * Changing copy2distro to work properly for both ubuntu-rtm and ubuntu on main LP
<sil2100>   * Preparing spreadsheet-side changes for RTM support
<sil2100>   * Add tested-image information to the Testing done cell in the spreadsheet
<sil2100>   * Improvements to the issue tracker backend
<sil2100>   * Make that by default only the brief part of the commit message is used for changelog
<sil2100> - Some minor work on the old CI Train bot
<sil2100> (done)
<sil2100> doko: your turn :)
<doko> - two more days of merges
<doko> - some more transitions done, fixing ftbfs
<doko> - working on the aarch64 multilib toolchain, now first set of packages available for a manual build on the buildds
<doko> - prepare for upcoming sprints and conferences
<doko> - update the cross compiler defaults
<doko> - some llvm progress
<doko> (done)
<jodh> * upstart
<jodh>   - Raised MP and fix to really disable set-env et al for system jobs:
<jodh>     https://code.launchpad.net/~jamesodhunt/upstart/bug-1356824/+merge/230777
<jodh>   - Raised MP to remove debug calls when using cgroups in debug mode:
<jodh>     https://code.launchpad.net/~jamesodhunt/upstart/make-cgroups-quiet-in-debug-mode/+merge/230762
<jodh> * system image for ubuntu-core
<jodh>   - Updates to lp:~ubuntu-foundations-team/+junk/create-ubuntu-core-image.
<jodh>     Most interestingly, discovered "secret" option to kpartx that was not
<jodh>   documented, so raised MP to get that rectified:
<jodh>   https://code.launchpad.net/~jamesodhunt/ubuntu/utopic/multipath-tools/document-sync-option/+merge/230648
<jodh>   - Working on making rootfs read-only.
<jodh> * misc:
<jodh>   - Phone testing.
<jodh>   - Short week as out Wed-Fri last week and Monday this week.
<jodh> â¡
<bdmurray> rewrote errors frontends to allow for selection of rootfs build or device image
<bdmurray> submitted RT 74003 to have errors.staging updated
<bdmurray> tested deployment of rootfs build / device image selection on errors.staging
<bdmurray> had new version of errors deployed to errors.ubuntu.com
<bdmurray> fixed rootfs_build and device_image url parameters
<bdmurray> updated errors (r499) to include manage-stale-min.js needed for the assets build process
<bdmurray> email to ubuntu-phone mailing list regarding error tracker changes
<bdmurray> committed fix for errors bug 1329820 regarding armhf retracing stats
<bdmurray> investigation into retracer failures
<ubottu> bug 1329820 in Errors "no armhf data in retracers-average-processing-time" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1329820
<bdmurray> updated apport bug 1352591 with another way for the sandbox to be out of date
<ubottu> bug 1352591 in apport (Ubuntu) "apport-retrace does not update libraries or executable in a sandbox" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1352591
<bdmurray> reported apport bug 1354571 regarding apport discarding gdb warnings
<bdmurray> found a retracer failure due to out of date Contents.gz
<bdmurray> added a cronjob for the daisy retracers to remove .crash files from /srv/daisy.ubuntu.com/var/ weekly
<ubottu> bug 1354571 in apport (Ubuntu) "apport-retrace ignores warnings from gdb" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1354571
<bdmurray> SRU team work
<bdmurray> searched for and reviewed LTS upgrade issues
<bdmurray> release upgrader bug triage
<bdmurray> updated metarelease files for 14.04.1 and adding 14.04 to meta-release-lts
<bdmurray> submitted apport bug 1355358 regarding apport running constantly
<ubottu> bug 1355358 in apport (Ubuntu) "apport running constantly for a buggy application" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1355358
<bdmurray> reported apport bug 135546 regarding premature uploads
<bdmurray> â done
<ubottu> bug 135546 in flwm (Ubuntu) "[FTBFS] flwm because of missing libxext-dev" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/135546
<bdmurray> review of nautilus stopped phased update (overrode errors)
<bdmurray> well that's a typo I guess ;-)
<infinity> * Kernel SRU mangling
<infinity> * Emergency kernel security babysitting
<infinity> * Redoing the VMs for ppc64el buildds and setting up new VMs for powerpc
<infinity> * Updating firmware on a range of P7 and P8 hosts
<infinity> * Getting started on CI train training (yo dawg, ...)
<infinity> * Misc SRU and AA things
<infinity> * Looking into finally moving arm64 buildds to distro kernels
<infinity> [...]
<infinity> Oh, and I forgot about crazy hilarious badness in reopening saucy to let an apt SRU in. :P
<infinity> (And closing it again)
<bhuey> Last week
<bhuey> -investigate and discuss a list of regressions with 7u65-2.5.1 for precise and trusty
<bhuey> -post list of regressions from the build tests
<bhuey> -work on testing locale related regressions with the security team
<bhuey> -TCK related configurations, unapcked files and created the basic directory structure for those tests
<bhuey> -two day vacation in Vegas, DefCon 22
<bhuey> -experiment with locales within precise
<bhuey> -look at the internal contents of all of the regression tests
<bhuey> This week
<bhuey> -attempt to understand the layout of testing during the build
<bhuey> -figure out how manually invoke the jtreg.jar test suite manually outside of the build attempt
<bhuey> done
<bhuey> ...
<stgraber> 12.04.5 release last week and some follow-up actions.
<stgraber> LXC code reviews, CI fixes and preparation for the release of alpha-2 and 1.0.6.
<stgraber> Reworking my Internet simulator to be in a releaseable state by next week.
<stgraber> Follow-up on some needed kernel patches.
<stgraber> Preparing my LinuxCon North America talk on simulating the internet with LXC.
<stgraber> Preparing a Linux Security Summit talk on userns and GUi applications with LXC.
<stgraber> Preparing the Containers hackfest at LinuxCon North America.
<stgraber> Preparing the Containers mini-summit at Linux Plumbers 2014.
<stgraber> Sorted out accomodation and stuff for my LinuxCon Europe talk on LXC and system containers.
<stgraber>  
<stgraber> Next week, Serge and I will be in Chicago for LinuxCon North America, Linux
<stgraber> Security Summit and a Containers hackfest that we're organizing with the Linux
<stgraber> Foundation. As a result, I'm mostly unavailable this week preparing and will be
<stgraber> offline or unavailable a good chunk of next week, so if there's anything you
<stgraber> need me to do during that time, please get in touch ASAP!
<stgraber> (DONE)
<stgraber> robru: around?
<sil2100> He might have not woken up on time
<stgraber> ok, so I guess we're done
<stgraber> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Foundations team meeting | Current topic: AOB
<stgraber> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Aug 14 15:19:09 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-08-14-15.02.moin.txt
<robru> ah crap
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-08-16
<osama> hi
<osama> h
<osama> i
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-08-11
<arosales> o/
<arges> o/
<hallyn> \o
<coreycb> o/
<rbasak> o/
<magicalChicken> o/
<rharper> \o
<smoser> o/
<matsubara> o/
<smoser> should be gnoy
<smoser> i did last time, but didnt update
<smoser> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<smoser> bad smoser
<smoser> i cant' really lead now. on a call.
<smoser> gnuoy gaughen jamespage beisner zul arosales hallyn rbasak matsubara coreycb jgrimm kickinz1
<arosales> I can lead smoser
<rbasak> Thanks arosales
<arosales> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Aug 11 16:08:00 2015 UTC.  The chair is arosales. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<arosales> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<arosales> smoser to check with Odd_Bloke on status of high priority bug 1461242
<ubottu> bug 1461242 in cloud-init (Ubuntu Vivid) "cloud-init does not generate ed25519 keys" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1461242
 * arosales checks bug
<arosales> I don't see a recent comment in the bug thus I will carry that action over
<arosales> #action smoser to check with Odd_Bloke on status of high priority bug 1461242
<meetingology> ACTION: smoser to check with Odd_Bloke on status of high priority bug 1461242
<smoser> well, that is fix-released in wily
<arosales> smoser, so you are good with that one?
<arosales> given its fixed released :-)
<arosales> next action item
<arosales> Thoughts about numad
<arosales> no owner
<arosales> anyone have any thoughts on numad? Not sure what the action here is
<arosales> hmm . . .  doesn't seem so
<rharper> arosales: with more context I can have info
<arosales> I won't carry that one over as I don't know what action is needed there
<rharper> I knew we've discussed bringing in a numad or scripts with numa balancing for hosts doing virt in the past, hallyn and I
<arosales> rharper, I agree not a lot of context, perhaps sync up with smoser on the context there.
<smb> arosales, I think it was intended as a hint to think about it generally
<arosales> all the info I have is what is @ https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<smb> Like libvirt would ask for it to make automatic numa aware placement of memory/vcpus on numa hosts
<rharper> arosales: I'll take an action to follow up with the team
<arosales> #action rharper investigate  bringing in a numad or scripts with numa balancing for hosts doing virt
<meetingology> ACTION: rharper investigate  bringing in a numad or scripts with numa balancing for hosts doing virt
<arosales> rharper, thanks
<rharper> np
<arosales> #topic Wily Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Wily Development
<rbasak> o/
<arosales> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WilyWerewolf/ReleaseSchedule
<rbasak> So I have a pretty lengthy item here.
<rharper> smb: feel free to mail me with any questions/requests w.r.t numad stuff and I'll collect and respond
<rbasak> In short, my team at Canonical are going to take on a bunch of bugs, so I'd like to use this meeting to assign them.
<smb> rharper, ack
<rbasak> magicalChicken, rharper, kickinz1, jgrimm and smoser should all have bug assignments from my queue I think.
<rbasak> Anybody else? rcj maybe?
<rharper> rbasak: are these new assignments or ones we picked up last week ?
<rbasak> I'd like to assign each person multiple bugs as it's likely that one or other bug will have an issue that will block you.
<rbasak> rharper: so I'd like to add additional assignments, but without the expectation that you'll do all of them in a week - just to keep things going in the pipeline.
<rbasak> Does that sound OK?
<rharper> rbasak: sounds good
<rbasak> I have shortlisted from my backlog the following bugs (tagged server-next for the purposes of this meeting - I'll untag when assigned): https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-server/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-importance&field.status%3Alist=NEW&field.status%3Alist=CONFIRMED&field.status%3Alist=TRIAGED&field.status%3Alist=INPROGRESS&field.status%3Alist=FIXCOMMITTED&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RES
<rbasak> PONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&assignee_option=any&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.bug_commenter=&field.subscriber=&field.structural_subscriber=&field.tag=server-next&field.tags_combinator=ANY&field.status_upstream-empty-marker=1&field.has_cve.used=&field.omit_dupes.used=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.affects_me.used=&field.has_patch.used=&field.has_branches.used=&field.
<rbasak> has_branches=on&field.has_no_branches.used=&field.has_no_branches=on&field.has_blueprints.used=&field.has_blueprints=on&field.has_no_blueprints.used=&field.has_no_blueprints=on&search=Search
<rbasak> Hmm
<rbasak> Need a link shortener I thnk.
<rbasak> https://goo.gl/tbvy0R
<rbasak> ipmi_si is for the kernel section of the meeting
<rbasak> Can we assign the others please?
<rbasak> They should all be relatively straightforward - I've picked them so we can ramp everyone up easily and get some momentum going.
<arosales> #link https://goo.gl/tbvy0R
<rbasak> Does anyone want anything specific from that list, or shall I just assign them?
<rharper> rbasak: I suggest just assigning and the team can swap
<rbasak> OK
<rbasak> magicalChicken: I'll give you bug 1394403
<ubottu> bug 1394403 in apache2 (Ubuntu Trusty) "RewriteRule of "^$" is broken" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1394403
<magicalChicken> rbasak: Okay, cool
<rbasak> magicalChicken: not sure which LP id to use. Please could you assign yourself?
<magicalChicken> rbasak: okay, sure
<rbasak> rharper: I'll give you bug 1457957
<ubottu> bug 1457957 in puppet (Ubuntu Vivid) "puppet uses upstart for service status checks in vivid" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1457957
<rharper> rbasak: OK
<rbasak> smoser: bug 1483093. Not sure if this is valid or not, needs investigation. Should be trivial either way.
<ubottu> bug 1483093 in squid-deb-proxy (Ubuntu) ".archive.ubuntu.com is non inclusive" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1483093
<rbasak> Actually, on second thought.
<rbasak> Maybe kickinz1?
<rbasak> smoser: I'll give you bug 1481337 instead.
<ubottu> bug 1481337 in keepalived (Ubuntu Wily) "keepalived makes a floating IP available on more than one host after configuration reload" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1481337
<rbasak> There are two PHP ones which might be fixable in a combined SRU
<rbasak> bug 1474276 and bug 1481289
<ubottu> bug 1474276 in php5 (Ubuntu Trusty) "PHP Fatal error: Inconsistent insteadof definition" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1474276
<ubottu> bug 1481289 in php5 (Ubuntu) "PHP 5.5.9 Default socket timeout being not honoured by application" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1481289
<rbasak> So might as well give them to the same person
<rbasak> rharper: can I give them to you for your backlog? No expectation to do more than one of them this week.
<rharper> rbasak: sure
<smoser> rbasak, ack
<rbasak> OK, that's everything I had picked for this meeting assigned.
<rbasak> What I'd like to see is progress on each one bug from everyone by the next IRC meeting please. If you don't find the time, then we can consult with jgrimm (Canonical server team manager) to adjust work allocations.
<rbasak> So if you haven't commented progress in the bug by the next meeting I'll ask for progress in the next meeting itself.
<rbasak> Please feel free to ping me if you need any help driving your bugs forward.
<rbasak> That's all from me - thanks.
<rbasak> Any questions?
<rharper> sounds good
<rbasak> Great!
<rbasak> arosales: thanks, please continue.
<arosales> reminder feature freeze is Aug 20.
<arosales> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-w-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<arosales> do we need to cover this section?
<arosales> rbasak, ?
<rbasak> I'm not sure.
<rbasak> They haven't been on my radar for attention
<arosales> ok, any other bugs we should discuss @ #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-w-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<rbasak> I don't see anything there that I think requires discussion.
<arosales> going onto the next subject
<arosales> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<arosales> any topics caribou
<arosales> . . .
<arosales> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
<smb> The ipmi_si bug rbasak mentioned is in progress. Test kernel verified, need to finish the sru steps. Apart from that I think there is nothing to report.
<rbasak> Thank you for taking care of that bug smb
<rbasak> (it's bug 1483214 for anyone interested)
<ubottu> bug 1483214 in linux (Ubuntu Vivid) "ipmi_si module spams kernel log with "ipmi_si 00:05: Could not set the global enables: 0xcc."" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1483214
<arosales> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara)
<matsubara> nothing new to report arosales
<matsubara> arosales, actually I have a SRU to verify (bug 1336742) but that's all.
<ubottu> bug 1336742 in squid3 (Ubuntu Trusty) "Caching responses with "Vary" header" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1336742
<arosales> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara)
<arosales> thanks for covering that topic, sorry I missed you
<arosales> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Upcoming Call For Papers
<arosales> any CFPs?
<arosales> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<arosales> LinuxCon coming up
<arosales> http://events.linuxfoundation.org/events/linuxcon-north-america
<arosales> ...
<arosales> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<arosales> Any other topics
<arosales> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<arosales> NEXT MEETING: Tuesday 2015-08-18 at 1600 UTC - #ubuntu-meeting
<arosales> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Aug 11 16:50:27 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-08-11-16.08.moin.txt
<rbasak> arosales: thank you for the short notice chairing!
<rharper> arosales: thanks!
<arosales> np
<jsalisbury> startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Wily
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<apw> o/
<rtg> o/
<henrix> o/
<arges> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://kernel.ubuntu.com/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Wily Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> We have rebased our Wily master-next branch to the latest upstream
<ogasawara> v4.2-rc6 and uploaded to our ~canonical-kernel-team PPA.  We are
<ogasawara> still fixing up DKMS packages before we proceed uploading to the
<ogasawara> archive.
<ogasawara> -----
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WilyWerewolf/ReleaseSchedule
<ogasawara> Thurs Aug 20 - Feature Freeze (~1 week away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Aug 27 - Beta 1 (~2 weeks away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Sep 24 - Fina Beta (~6 weeks away)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's
<jsalisbury> The current CVE status can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://kernel.ubuntu.com/reports/kernel-cves.html
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Precise/Trusty/Utopic/Vivid (bjf)
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
<kamal> thanks jsalisbury!
<bjf> Status for the main kernels, until today:
<bjf>   *     Precise - Verification & Testing
<bjf>   *      Trusty - Verification & Testing
<bjf>   *  lts-Utopic - Verification & Testing
<bjf>   *      Vivid  - Verification & Testing
<bjf>  
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>   * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>   * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/sru-report.html
<bjf>  
<bjf>  
<bjf> Schedule:
<bjf>     
<bjf> cycle: 26-Jul through 15-Aug
<bjf> ====================================================================
<bjf>          24-Jul   Last day for kernel commits for this cycle
<bjf> 26-Jul - 01-Aug   Kernel prep week.
<bjf> 02-Aug - 08-Aug   Bug verification & Regression testing.
<bjf> 09-Aug - 15-Aug   Regression testing & Release to -updates.
<bjf>     
<bjf> ..
<kamal> jsalisbury, can you arrange to get that ^^ into the minutes?
<jsalisbury> kamal, sure thing
<kamal> :-)
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-08-13
 * slangasek waves
 * sil2100 waves back
 * barry just wavers
 * bdmurray waivers
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Aug 13 15:01:31 2015 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity sil2100 robru cyphermox pitti tdaitx)
<slangasek> caribou tdaitx sil2100 robru pitti doko bdmurray cyphermox infinity slangasek barry
<slangasek> no caribou here today
<slangasek> tdaitx: you first then
<tdaitx> Past week
<tdaitx> - Transition manager:
<tdaitx> * learning about ben and britney
<tdaitx> * checking how to fix the bad dependencies
<tdaitx> * got python-apt to work
<tdaitx> * Laney solved the same issue in a different approach
<tdaitx> * discovered the glories of grep-dctrl
<tdaitx> - FTBFS:
<tdaitx> * investigated notmuch; was failing due dtach running with TERM="unknown"
<tdaitx> * found ceph fix on github, tested, and debdiff'ed it (LP: #1483403)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1483403 in ceph (Ubuntu) "ceph FTBFS with boost1.58" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1483403
<tdaitx> * opened Debian #795178 for ceph as well
<ubottu> Debian bug 795178 in src:ceph "ceph FTBFS with boost1.58" [Important,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/795178
<tdaitx> - OpenJDK
<tdaitx> * tracking down LP: #1482924
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1482924 in openjdk-7 (Ubuntu) "Regressions due to USN-2696-1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1482924
<tdaitx> * OpenJDK 6/7 supports TLS 1.1/1.2, but TLS 1.0 is the default
<tdaitx> * patched and tested OpenJDK 7 to default to TLS 1.2
<tdaitx> Next week
<tdaitx> - figure out what needs to be backported from OpenJDK 8 into 7 and 6
<tdaitx> - backport TLS 1.2 to OpenJDK 7 and 6
<tdaitx> Waiting/On hold
<tdaitx> - TCK validation for OpenJDK 7 (doko)
<tdaitx> Updates
<tdaitx> - was pointed to IS wiki pages and got ssh/sshebang to work
<tdaitx> - applied for a new passport (will collect it tomorrow, then start the US visa process)
<tdaitx> (done)
<sil2100> o/
<sil2100> - Brain overheating, need to move away to some icy place srsly
<sil2100> - Landing team work, silo coordination, preparing landing e-mails
<sil2100> - Find root cause of failing armhf image builds - fixed by copying timezonemap binaries to overlay
<sil2100> - Sending out a quick guideline e-mail for landings
<sil2100> - Creating an uploading manual langpack packages for china images
<sil2100> - Investigate system-image importer crashing on the g++5 channel delta generation
<sil2100>   * Custom tarballs corrupted, chased it down with ogra, tyhicks and jdstrand to an issue in apparmor
<sil2100> - Updated CI Train bileto and sync documentation
<sil2100> - Fixing commitlog case when cdimage build does not have a new rootfs build associated
<sil2100> - i386 rc-proposed not-building:
<sil2100>   * Fixed issue with thumbnailer hard-depping on a -gles version that didn't exist
<sil2100>   * Looking into and getting a head-ache from packages ignoring the 'provides' fields
<sil2100>   * Probably related to the new apt in vivid being more strict
<sil2100> - Launchpad overlay translation enablement
<sil2100>   * Copying over few missing touch packages to overlay to enable 15.04 exports
<sil2100>   * Requesting batch copies, coordinating imports, requesting auto-exports/auto-uploads
<sil2100> - Starting to wrap my head around britney1 and britney2 code
<sil2100> (done)
<robru> * Bileto:
<robru>  - fixed various small UX papercuts (dashboard jumpiness, SSO teams checked by default, dialog text when abandoning a request)
<robru>  - achieved 100% test coverage for python backend
<robru>  - allow API searches against multiple fields
<robru>  - pagination in both backend and frontend
<robru> * Cupstream2distro:
<robru>  - Added check to reject building/configuring superceded merges.
<robru>  - generated new API token in wake of minor leak, and squashed the leaky code (with regression tests)
<robru>  - get some stuff that was cowboyed in production and commit it to trunk
<robru> â done like dinner
<pitti> - g++ 5 transitions and related FTBFS and autopkgtest fixes on 4 days
<pitti> - eat ice cream every day to compensate for the blood and sweat from above
<pitti> - Port sessioninstaller to Python 3 (#1440368)
<pitti> - systemd: Fix "systemctl link" (#1480310), debug screen locking during dist-upgrade (#1473800, ongoing)
<pitti> - britney: Fix handling of unbuilt reverse deps (#1483481), took a few iterations as it's quite hairy
<pitti> EOT
<doko> pitti, do you expense that?
<pitti> is anybody not? :-)
<pitti> (also, it's vital food now -- EOVERHEAT)
<doko>  - transitions ...
<doko> - was at GNU Cauldron last week(end)
<doko> (done)
<bdmurray> implemented the display of package pockets on the package versions table in errors
<bdmurray> tested staging update of errors showing package pockets
<bdmurray> submitted RT to have production/staging versions of errors/daisy updated to show package pockets
<bdmurray> fixed an issue with the display of the pocket for packages for Ubuntu RTM 14.09
<bdmurray> submitted RT to have production/staging versions of errors/daisy updated to fix RTM pockets
<bdmurray> reported and fixed errors LP linking bug LP: #1483826
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1483826 in Errors "If the package version in the version table is from an unknown source don't build an LP link" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1483826
<bdmurray> review of retracing failures for ways to improve
<bdmurray> updated meta-release* for Trusty point release
<bdmurray> wrote retracer missing executable log finding code
<bdmurray> discussed with stub adding another dse node
<bdmurray> uploaded apport SRU for T, V fixing LP: #1470572
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1470572 in apport (Ubuntu Vivid) "native-origins.d information causes apport to strip origin information from Package" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1470572
<bdmurray> ubiquity, update-manager bug triage
<bdmurray> merged whoopsie merge proposal
<bdmurray> review of a bug control application
<bdmurray> sponsored some patches
<bdmurray> created a proper fix for bash-completion bug LP: #1358154
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1358154 in bash-completion (Debian) "Bash autocompletion not working for apt command" [Unknown,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1358154
<bdmurray> â done
<bdmurray> cyphermox is next right?
<cyphermox> ok
<cyphermox>  - debugging samba ppc64el hangs on trusty (LP: #1472584)
<cyphermox>  - NM fixes for wifi scanning and ofono - ipv6
<cyphermox>  - looked into UTF-8 issues with console-setup in ubiquity install
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1472584 in samba (Ubuntu) "ISST-LTE: Samba server doesn't work well on Ubuntu 14.04.3 on ppc64el" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1472584
<cyphermox>  - uploaded multipath-tools SRU for trusty
<cyphermox>  - partman-base fix for rpmb mmcs (LP: #1456443)
<cyphermox>  - ipmitool SRU (LP: #1481780)
<cyphermox>  - capser lightdm autologin fix
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1456443 in OEM Priority Project "Skip eMMC device's boot0, boot1 and rpmb partitions" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1456443
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1481780 in ipmitool (Ubuntu Trusty) "ipmitool 1.8.13 needs 2 patches for OpenPower systems" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1481780
<cyphermox> (done)
<slangasek> sil2100: what 'provides' fields did you have being ignored?
<slangasek> no infinity, so
<slangasek>  * gcc-5 transition: things are going well, gcc-defaults got unblocked this week and many individual libraries have made it through
<slangasek>   * we still have the main mass of entangled library transitions to push in (the one that requires proposed-migration to hint several hundred packages at the same time and fails because it can't figure out how to make 10,000 binary packages installable), but this is being worked on
<slangasek>   * miscellaneous bug fixes uploaded, various leaf packages removed from wily
<slangasek>  * travel:
<slangasek>   * DebConf15 starts this weekend; I'll be out from tomorrow
<slangasek> (done)
<slangasek>   * LinuxCon, Plumbers, etc are next week so I'll be there from Wednesday afternoon to Friday
<slangasek> barry:
<barry> looked at buildbot build failures (debian bug #794300).  need upstream help; bug filed.
<ubottu> Debian bug 794300 in buildbot "buildbot: FTBFS on unstable and needs rebuild for sqlalchemy transition" [Serious,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/794300
<barry> worked on django for py35.  will require an update to 1.8.3 from experimental, which is undergoing its own stalled transition.  created ppa pythoneers/py35django18 to track this, which is stacked on py35asdefault.  django itself builds but several of the other django related/dependent packages in the archive ftbfs
<barry> long and difficult work on pytables (LP: #1478146)  3.2.1-0ubuntu1 builds now but apparently segfaults its dep-8 tests.  still investigating that.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1478146 in pytables (Ubuntu Wily) "pytables FTBFS with python3.5" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1478146
<barry> --done--
<sil2100> slangasek: well, that's what it seems it's doing... nothing changed in deps and suddenly the -gles versions of UITK are not installed when apps are depending on UITK, even though the -gles ones have 'Provides' of the UITK ones in packaging
<slangasek> sil2100: can you give me an exact package name / provides?
<sil2100> slangasek: so suddenly everything went to hell and things that apt could install correctly suddenly causes a 'conflicts' and ubuntu-touch became uninstallable
<sil2100> qtdeclarative5-ubuntu-ui-toolkit-plugin-gles prodives and conflicts with qtdeclarative5-ubuntu-ui-toolkit-plugin
<sil2100> A whole batch of packages dep on qtdeclarative5-ubuntu-ui-toolkit-plugin, and on the i386 versions -gles should be installed instead - in the past it just worked if the build system pulled in qtdeclarative5-ubuntu-ui-toolkit-plugin-gles
<slangasek> so one thing you may be seeing is the effect of the random ordering of things through seeds; if something $somewhere changed that caused dependencies to be traversed in a different order, and you were previously forcing qtdeclarative5-ubuntu-ui-toolkit-plugin-gles but now qtdeclarative5-ubuntu-ui-toolkit-plugin is getting seen first
<slangasek> sil2100: where does the failure show up?
<sil2100> slangasek: on the i386 cdimage builds but also locally when I try it in a chroot... there was no seeds change, but there was a new apt uploaded, so maybe now it traverses the deps differently
<sil2100> Anyway, still looking into that, want to see what actually changed in apt
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> any other questions re: status?
<sil2100> Might be something else... but I checked all changes in our touch packages, experimented a lot with deps in the chroot and nothing, so I started looking into the apt direction
<sil2100> Timeline-wise it seems possible
<sil2100> slangasek: when infinity will be back? :)
<slangasek> good question
 * sil2100 wants to molest him a bit about britney pop-star stuff
 * bdmurray shakes head
<slangasek> sil2100: oh, and you know there's a follow-up SRU to apt that's currently in vivid-proposed which hasn't been released yet?  there was a regression that was critical-path for 14.04.3, but considered less relevant to vivid; perhaps there's *some* interaction there
<slangasek> sil2100: "oops I did it again" is not an endorsed engineering practice in Ubuntu
<barry> despite it being the best pop song of the last 50 years
<bdmurray> if it were it would be "toxic"
 * pitti takes notes to not break britney a third time :)
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> anything else? :)
<bdmurray> sil2100: What's up with https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/livecd-rootfs/+bug/1471903?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1471903 in livecd-rootfs (Ubuntu) "-updates, -security missing from apt lists" [High,In progress]
<sil2100> bdmurray: was waiting for infinity to take a look at it, slangasek agrees with this proposition but Adam seemed to have some concerns
<sil2100> slangasek: ;)
<sil2100> slangasek: I'll look into that apt upload, I saw it but didn't know yet what it was about
<bdmurray> sil2100: okay, thanks
<slangasek> sil2100: have you asked infinity to look at it?
<sil2100> slangasek: sent an e-mail yesterday + some -proposed stuff, but it seems he wasn't around yesterday as well
<slangasek> sil2100: he was around, but that's not the same as replying to an email
<slangasek> sil2100: by -proposed do you mean you uploaded an SRU?
<sil2100> No, -proposed migration questions (regarding britney and not only)
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> anything else (x2)?
<slangasek> everyone still has enough to work on at http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/transitions/ ?
<cyphermox> in anything else,
<barry> oh yes :)
<cyphermox> apparently today's image is broken in not-EFI
<cyphermox> doesn't boot.
<slangasek> I would like to see the main transition un-stick by the end of the week; if you aren't sure which pieces to help with for that, you can check with Laney or doko on #ubuntu-release
<slangasek> cyphermox: yes, I've just seen a bug report from davmor2 come through about this.  have you reproduced the failure?
<slangasek> (and who uploaded what?)
<cyphermox> working on it
<cyphermox> I've reproduced the non-failure on EFI
<cyphermox> and now I've reproduced the failure
<slangasek> there is a new syslinux in wily as of 20 hours ago
<slangasek> possibly the first build with gcc5
<cyphermox> that's the most likely culprit, in fact
<slangasek> definitely the first build with gcc5
<davmor2> cyphermox: just added a comment to my bug yesterday image boots fine so it is only todays build that is broken
<barry> slangasek: can you rename this one: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/transitions/html/python3.3-5.html
<cyphermox> I'll check that out, I'll roll my own CD to see
<slangasek> cyphermox: want to build-depend on gcc-4.9 as a short-term workaround while debugging further?  since this is C not C++ there's no compatibility problem with rolling back temporarily
<slangasek> cyphermox: and handing you bug #1484571
<ubottu> bug 1484571 in syslinux (Ubuntu) "Latest wily image is not booting" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1484571
<cyphermox> slangasek: yeah, that could be a good temporary solution so people don't get unbootable systems for the time being
<slangasek> barry: done
<slangasek> cyphermox: it's not "people get unbootable systems", syslinux is only used on the CDs - but we need the CDs to be bootable to make sure the g++ transition isn't leaving the OS on the floor.  So please revert syslinux to gcc-4.9 asap and we can continue debugging after
<barry> slangasek: thanks.  does it take a while to show up on http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/transitions/ ?
<slangasek> barry: ~1h
<barry> slangasek: ack
<slangasek> (possibly less now that I've been trying to prune the done transitions from the list)
<cyphermox> slangasek: I think this would also likely break people trying to use usb-creator to write iso images to USB, even if the iso was good.
<slangasek> cyphermox: sure; it won't break bootability of an existing system, at least, but is still critical :)
<cyphermox> of course, fixing that now :)
<slangasek> thanks
<slangasek> anything else? (x3)
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Aug 13 15:40:54 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-08-13-15.01.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks!
<barry> thanks!
<pitti> thanks everyone!
<pitti> see some of you next week at debconf!
<barry> pitti: have fun!
<Quatravius> Hi
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-08-15
<tyhicks> hello
<tyhicks> #startmeeting
<mdeslaur> hi!
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Aug 15 16:32:26 2016 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<tyhicks> jdstrand: you're up
<jdstrand> hi!
<jdstrand> I completed the review tools updates and iterated on several of my PRs to address snappy team feedback and they are now committed (including browser-support and system-trace (for bcc). I conducted a lot of other PR reviews from others teams
<jdstrand> I'm continuing to focus on PR reviews for lxd, udisks2/pluggable-storage, docker and serial-port (formerly zigbee-dongle)
<jdstrand> I just got a request for another high-prioirty review for interacting with systemd
<jdstrand> I'd like to spend some time with that one, but put it after these 4
<jdstrand> assuming I can get through those, I'll pick up my dbus-app interface PR which should finish all the priority-bumped cards that came out of recent sprint outcomes (I suspect dbus-app won't land until next week)
<jdstrand> that's it from me. mdeslaur, you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm in the happy place this week
<mdeslaur> I'm currently publishing an openssh update
<mdeslaur> and need to investigate the regression in the qemu update that I reverted on friday
<mdeslaur> after that, I'll be going down the list, as usual.
<mdeslaur> that's it for me, sbeattie?
<sbeattie> I'm on community this week.
<sbeattie> I'm tetsing an openjdk-7 update, and have an embargoed issue
<sbeattie> I have some upstream apparmor work to do (patch review, etc)
<tyhicks> sbeattie: is the openjdk-7 update still blocked by the gcc-4.8 segfault in trusty?
<sbeattie> We can discuss this after the stand-up reports, but I'd like to finish up moving the qa-r-t repo to git.
<tyhicks> sbeattie: bjf was eager for QRT to move to git this week
<sbeattie> tyhicks: it's not, there was a bug in the packaging that was causing it to use pre-compiled-headers on trusty on arm64. Once that was fixed to really disable it, it built fine.
<tyhicks> great
<sbeattie> Anyway, that's probably it for me this week.
<sbeattie> tyhicks: you're up.
<tyhicks> short week this week (off friday)
<tyhicks> I'm on bug triage
<tyhicks> I've got some MIR review assistance to continue providing
<tyhicks> I'll be working on seccomp complain mode (hopefully - other things keep popping up)
<tyhicks> and then maybe I can work on squashfs bugs for the review tools
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> I'm working on fixing a signal issue that has surfaced when stacking is used across namespaces
<tyhicks> jjohansen: were you able to fix the oopses introduced by the fix for the name lookup errors?
<jjohansen> and of course any new bugs that surface while testing out stacking with lxc/d
<jjohansen> tyhicks: yes, I haven't seen any oops, and was running with stacked containers on the weekend
<tyhicks> nice
<jjohansen> I need to finish my review of gsettings, and get together a merge request before FF
<jjohansen> and then I will be working on upstreaming and prepping for LSS
<tyhicks> jjohansen: FF is thursday
<jjohansen> yes
<tyhicks> jjohansen: I don't think the gsettings stuff is going to make it by FF
<jjohansen> we can certainly file for an exception if we need to, but I'd like to get it done before if we can
<tyhicks> jjohansen: lets discuss it after this meeting
<jjohansen> I am trying to get the apparmor end, done today
<jjohansen> tyhicks: sure
<tyhicks> sarnold: go ahead
<sarnold> I've got two short weeks, out thursday through monday; I'm on cve triage but this week ratliff is going to do the cve triage, I'll be walking her through it and reviewing her checkins (same intention for bug triage and community in the ocming weeks)
<sarnold> I'll also be doing MIR reviews but I'm not sure which ones, I haven't looked at the prioritised list lately
<tyhicks> sarnold: if that ends up taking more time than CVE triage (or whichever role you're helping her with) would typically take, be sure to pass off some of that work to the rest of us
<tyhicks> sarnold: I can review checkins for a day or whatever is needed
<sarnold> tyhicks: okay, thanks
<sarnold> hmm it seemed there was another package needed for one of the reviews I finished up last week or the week before.. i.e. no point promoting one without the other.. I can't recall what that package was now
<tyhicks> let me know if you remember what that was
<sarnold> tyhicks: ah that's what it is, python-pykmip https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/barbican/+bug/1543754  -- make sense?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1543754 in barbican (Ubuntu) "[MIR] barbican, python-pykmip" [High,In progress]
<sarnold> it'll be an HSM layer to barbican
<tyhicks> sarnold: ok, we'll need to discuss priorities with ratliff after the meeting
<sarnold> tyhicks: alrighty
<sarnold> that's it for me, I think chrisccoulson is out this week, is ratliff in?
<tyhicks> not yet
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libxml-dt-perl.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gcc-4.8.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/tryton-server.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/web2ldap.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/ibm-3270.html
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<sbeattie> Like I mentioned, I'd like to finish converting qa-r-t to git.
<tyhicks> I'm all for it
<tyhicks> do we have any scripts that depend on it being in bzr?
<sbeattie> But I want to make sure the rest of the team, particularly mdeslaur, since he is probably the most active committer, is okay with that.
<sbeattie> scripts> I don't think so.
<tyhicks> good
<mdeslaur> I'm ok with it
<tyhicks> that's right, we talked about that at the last sprint
<sbeattie> it's not used on people.c.c.
<sbeattie> right, that's why it's a good conversion candidate.
<tyhicks> sbeattie: are you going to be able to do the submodules thing that bjf requested?
<sbeattie> tyhicks: not at this point, but I figure having it in git, and getting familiar with using git regularly might make that easier.
<tyhicks> (for others, the 'submodules thing' is that the kernel team wants the kernel tests to be in a git submodule so that they don't have to pull down the entire QRT tree)
<tyhicks> sbeattie: ok, we can always make the submodules change afterwards
<tyhicks> sbeattie: sounds like you've got the green light
<tyhicks> thanks
<sbeattie> yeah, that was my thought. And realistically, we'd need two submodules: one for kernel stuff, one for testlib stuff.
<sbeattie> tyhicks: awesome, thanks.
<tyhicks> jdstrand, mdeslaur, sbeattie, jjohansen, sarnold: Thanks!
<tyhicks> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Aug 15 17:01:43 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-08-15-16.32.moin.txt
<jdstrand> tyhicks: thanks! :)
<jjohansen> thanks tyhicks
<sbeattie> tyhicks: thanks!
<mdeslaur> thanks!
<sarnold> thanks tyhicks!
<infinity> o/
<cyphermox> o/
<cyphermox> kind of busy though
<infinity> Well, this isn't near quorum.
<infinity> I'm fine to call it in a few more minutes.
<cyphermox> a few minutes won't help me, trying to finish something now so I can move on to yet more coding on a different project
<infinity> I meant "call it over if no one else shows up". :P
<cyphermox> ah
<infinity> #startmeeting Ubuntu DMB Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Aug 15 19:15:09 2016 UTC.  The chair is infinity. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu DMB Meeting | Current topic:
<infinity> #topic Quorum not met by 15m into the meeting.
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu DMB Meeting | Current topic: Quorum not met by 15m into the meeting.
<infinity> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Aug 15 19:15:35 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-08-15-19.15.moin.txt
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-08-16
<smoser> o/
<powersj> o/
<smoser> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Aug 16 16:03:10 2016 UTC.  The chair is smoser. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<smoser> lets get this party started.
<smoser> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<smoser> hash tag none
<smoser> #ACTION smoser: remember to take yourself off the chair list
<meetingology> ACTION: smoser: remember to take yourself off the chair list
<smoser> next week will be arosales
<smoser> #topic Yakkety Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Yakkety Development
<smoser> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/YakketyYak/ReleaseSchedule
<arosales> smoser: thanks for the fyi :-)
<smoser> Feature Freeze is 2 days from now.
<arosales> and chairing this week
<smoser> so, um... features need in.
<smoser> i will be getting new apt configuration format into cloud-init by then. i'm sure others have things they're hoping to land.
<smoser> #subtopic Release Bugs
<jgrimm> o/ late, sorry!
<smoser> rbasak or jgrimm you had links other than those listed at
<smoser>  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting/IRCCommands
<smoser> right ?
<rbasak> smoser: it should be all on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<smoser> ah. ok.
<smoser> #ACTION rbasak update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting/IRCCommands to match correct urls
<meetingology> ACTION: rbasak update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting/IRCCommands to match correct urls
<rbasak> THey looked mostly matched up to me.
<rbasak> That's a never-ending action!
<smoser> hm.. rbasak did i make up that you thought they were wrong or needed updating ?
 * smoser does have an active imagination
<rbasak> They're very slightly out of date I think. Visually, powersj's name for QA needs updating, that's all I can see.
<jgrimm> rbasak,  wiki page points to the rls-mgr reports which we discussed isn't terribly useful? i think that was the discussion smoser is remembering
<rbasak> But we have issues with chairs using that without looking at the agenda. IMHO, using that page just means that we miss things, and I don't have a good solution apart from to not use it.
<rbasak> Oh.
<rbasak> Yes, I'd be happy to drop the rls-mgr reports from the agenda, too.
<rbasak> I don't think it's particularly useful. It's an arbitrary list few people use or touch.
<smoser> rbasak, so is there a bug url that we *should* be looking at ?
<rbasak> Unfortunately not.
<rharper> o/
<rbasak> Perhaps we should.
<rbasak> Now that we have bug assignments working pretty well.
<smoser> do we want to discusst this further or move it to open discussion ?
<smoser> i've updated the irc commands to contain powersj and i'll drop those #link ones too.
<rbasak> Let's defer the conversation to another time.
<smoser> k.
<rbasak> That'll give people a chance to ponder it.
<smoser> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<smoser> no caribou, is there any set of bugs or bug that anyone wants to bring up  here ?
<smoser> oh well. seeing none
<smoser> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
<powersj> Finished up snap work from last week. Interested in writting some broader tests for snapcraft. Updated RT tickets for additional slaves this morning. Meeting with rharper to talk about network testing (ipv6) for curtin hopefully today.
<powersj> ISOs test merge requests are still open as I am waiting on group transfer to make this change. Triaging a few more ISO issues right now as well that I do think are fixed in my existing fixes.
<powersj> Also spending time writing down some learnings from last week's sprint and to help prepare for QA sprint.
<smoser> thanks powersj .
<smoser> any one have questions for powersj  ?
<smoser> powersj, can you verify that https://jenkins.ubuntu.com/server/ is the right ubuntu server team jenkins ?
<powersj> smoser, yes it is!
<smoser> i just added that to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting/IRCCommands
<smoser> and will add to agenda
<smoser> i think its sane to take a look at that if nothing else other than to make sure its all pretty green
<smoser> moving on
<smoser> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
<smb> Kernelwise: a 4.6  is approaching yakkety. Apart from that I merged libvirt-2.1.0 from debian testing for yakkety. Testing was ok but rather shallow (boot an existing vm). Shall I just go wild and upload before ff or does someone want to review what I did?
<smoser> rharper ^ you have thoughts on that ?
<smb> Right now its a separate branch here: https://git.launchpad.net/~libvirt-maintainers/ubuntu/+source/libvirt/log/?h=smb/yakkety
<rharper> smb: I'll certainly look at it
<smb> rharper, cool let me know if/when I should upload
<rharper> we can give it a spin under vmtest cross arch too
<smb> I guess ff is this thu or fri?
<jgrimm> always on thu right?
<rharper> if I don't get back to you, I'd say upload and we can bug fix (rather than miss ff)
<smoser> i +1 the upload to yakkety
<smb> rharper, yeah agreed
<smoser> better to get something in then to not for 6 months.
<rharper> y
<smb> rharper, smoser then I' do the upload tomorrow
<smoser> anything else?
<smb> not from me. if there are no questions
<smoser> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Upcoming Call For Papers
<smoser> i dont have anything and no one else speaking up
<smoser> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<smoser> i'm giving this 15 seconds or so before moving to open dicsussion
<smoser> anyone ?
<smoser> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<smoser> one thing i'd like to just mention...
<jgrimm> you should mention this ->https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-y-network-yaml
<jgrimm> :)
<smoser> sure.
<smoser> so if you didnt see this, that is "network yaml" that pitti has spoken about on ubuntu-devel.
<rharper> aka, netplan, nplan
<smoser> right, a way to define in one place the networking that shoudl be used.
<smoser> there is integration work on cloud-init and other places to utilize this.
<smoser> anything else ?
<smoser> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<smoser> next meeting will be Tuesday 2016-08-23 at 1600 UTC
<smoser> next chair will be arosales
<smoser> thank you all for your time.
<rharper> thanks smoser
<smoser> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Aug 16 16:28:53 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-08-16-16.03.moin.txt
<jgrimm> thanks smoser (for chairing 3 times in a row)
<Guest_95858> allah is doing
<Guest_95858> sun is not doing allah is doing
<Guest_95858> moon is not doing allah is doing
<Guest_95858> stars are not doing allah is doing
<Guest_95858> planets are not doing allah is doing
<Guest_95858> galaxies are not doing allah is doing
<Guest_95858> oceans are not doing allah is doing
<Guest_95858> mountains are not doing allah is doing
<Guest_95858> trees are not doing allah is doing
<Guest_95858> mom is not doing allah is doing
<sarnold> what'd you say about my mom?
<Guest_95858> dad is not doing allah is doing
<Guest_95858> boss is not doing allah is doing
<Guest_95858> job is not doing allah is doing
<Guest_95858> dollar is not doing allah is doing
<Guest_95858> degree is not doing allah is doing
<Guest_95858> medicine is not doing allah is doing
<Guest_95858> customers are not doing allah is doing
<Guest_95858> you can not get a job without the permission of allah
<Guest_95858> you can not get married without the permission of allah
<Guest_95858> nobody can get angry at you without the permission of allah
<mdeslaur> !ops
<ubottu> Help! Seveas, Hobbsee, LjL, ompaulafk, Keybuk, mdz, sabdfl, janimo, ogra, mdke, dholbach, or jono
<Guest_95858> light is not doing allah is doing
<Guest_95858> fan is not doing allah is doing
<mdeslaur> ty
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-08-18
<pitti> o/
<robru> \o
<cyphermox> o/
<infinity> \o/
<barry> /o\
<barry> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Aug 18 15:01:12 2016 UTC.  The chair is barry. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<barry> #topic Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<barry> [Lightning round]
<barry> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity sil2100 robru cyphermox pitti tdaitx xnox chiluk mwhudson)
<barry> pitti tdaitx barry robru xnox slangasek bdmurray chiluk sil2100 caribou infinity doko mwhudson cyphermox
<cyphermox> zomg
<cyphermox> ;_; I lost.
<barry> or won, depending on how you look at it :)
<caribou> o/
<cyphermox> hehe
<barry> pitti: you're up
<pitti> win!
<pitti> just a 3-day report due to holidays
<pitti> autopkgtest:
<pitti>  - post-holiday maintenance, salvaged lcy01 and cleaned up armhf workers
<pitti> netplan:
<pitti>  - Add initial CLI for "generate" and "apply" (improving "apply" right now)
<pitti>  - Clean up obsolete generated config files (#1608223)
<pitti>  - Disable disable NM's 10-globally-managed-devices.conf if global renderer is set to NM
<chiluk> slangasek nothing of interest to you guys from me this week.
<pitti>  - Dynamically enable systemd-networkd-wait-online (#1613548)
<pitti>  - Make "netplan apply" reset existing configuration/addresses
<cyphermox> netplan <3
<pitti>  - Read files from /run/netplan/*.yaml, for one-shot tests
<pitti>  - Some bug fixing
<pitti> distro:
<pitti>  - NetworkManager: Fix /run/NM/conf.d/ handling (#1614043)
<pitti>  - apport: Adjust autopkgtest for new glibc
<pitti>  - PostgreSQL: Prepare new upstream security/bug fix releases for all supported Ubuntu releases (#1614113)
<pitti>  - systemd: Fix resolved resolvconf integration on ppc64el (#1609740)
<pitti> the usual post-holiday email backlog (done) and bug triage (ongoing) fun
<pitti> (END)
<tdaitx> chiluk, steve is out today
<tdaitx> = OpenJDK security update
<tdaitx> - Provided OpenJDK 7 packages for Trusty and Precise to the security team; JamVM fix; disabled PCH on arm64/Trusty to avoid segfault (tks for the tip doko!)
<tdaitx> - Retested LP: #913434 on OpenJDK 6/7/8; does not affect 6 and 8, affects 7 released earlier than 2.6.6 (thus fixed by 2.6.7 without the need to use the embedded LCMS);
<tdaitx> - JamVM working on OpenJDK 8
<tdaitx> - Discussing with the security team if the embedded LCMS (2.7) should be used on Precise (available LCMS is 2.2) and whether we should SRU LCMS 2.6 to Trusty
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 913434 in lcms2 (Ubuntu) "ImageIO crashes (core dumped) while reading many image files" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/913434
<tdaitx> = Other
<tdaitx> - Looked over a few openjdk errors in errors.u.c that have more reports than LP: #1609190; a few might be worth a deeper look and a fix, if reproducible
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1609190 in openjdk-8 (Ubuntu) "/usr/lib/jvm/java-8-openjdk-armhf/jre/bin/java:6:BytecodeInterpreter::run:CppInterpreter::main_loop:CppInterpreter::normal_entry:ZeroEntry::invoke:Interpreter::invoke_method" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1609190
<tdaitx> (done)
<barry> ongoing work with ubuntu-image; several branches, merges, discussions
<barry> pyparsing 2.1.7+dfsg1-1, 2.1.8+dfsg1-1
<barry> --done--
<robru> lp:bileto
<robru> * added safety check to prevent it from assigning PPAs that have been created but not yet devirted
<robru> * worked with steve and colin to add 20 more PPAs
<robru> * work on new publish job is nearing completion, just needs more tests and testing, aiming for monday rollout
<robru> (done)
<barry> xnox: you're up
<xnox> zua:
<xnox> implement install command
<xnox> implement postinst to notify user about expiry & ask for mirror URL (to be used in d-i)
<xnox> started subordinate charm to provision instances
<xnox> todo - rebase qemu/libvirt patches
<xnox> boost/gcc:
<xnox> working through fixing gcc6 ftbfs, to aid boost1.61 migration
 * xnox hates c++14 a lot
<xnox> s390x:
<xnox> opencryptoki bugfixes
<xnox> done
<xnox> ..
<barry> no slangasek today, so bdmurray
<caribou> isn't he on an island somewhere ?
<barry> ah right
<barry> okay, chiluk already done, and no sil2100, so caribou you win!
<caribou> \o/
<caribou> back from vacation so email & backlog cleanup
<caribou> & monday was a holiday
<caribou> been hacking at LP: #1584485
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1584485 in samba (Ubuntu) "Upgrading samba to latest security fixes together with winbind in nsswitch.conf can harm entire OS" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1584485
<caribou> and a sponsoring
<caribou> (done)
<infinity>  * Still working on getting glibc 2.24 (and binutils and Qt and half the archive) migrated
<infinity>  * Prepped the next glibc upload for after the migration happens
<infinity>  * Worked on a hacked-up kernel to make the above transitions go
<infinity>  * Various merges, reviews, SRU work, and AA work
<infinity>  * Working on scaling out the powerpc buildds a bit until we have scalingstack for them
<infinity> (done)
<barry> i think doko is not around, so mwhudson
<cyphermox> mwhudson is probably not around either
<cyphermox> I know he's been doing snapd and console-conf work, not sure what else
<barry> cyphermox: right.  you're the caboose :)
<cyphermox> eep
<cyphermox> MIR:
<cyphermox> - review indicator-transfer-buteo
<cyphermox> yakkety:
<cyphermox> - console-conf fixing error handling for network config
<cyphermox> - console-conf network code
<cyphermox> - grub-installer removal of grub legacy code paths
<cyphermox> - more debugging UEFI PXE on IPv6 for grub2
<cyphermox> - teaching shim about the ExtendedKeyUsage extension on certificates
<cyphermox> - validate grub -> grub2 upgrade path  (that was for grub-installer)
<sil2100> o/
<cyphermox> the shim work should account for the scary patches that haven't been seen yet.
<cyphermox> (done)
<sil2100> (please skip me, I'll send out a summary once I get my graphical session working again)
<barry> sil2100: hi!  we're at the end, so if you have status, go for it
<sil2100> Sadly, I have no way of copy pasting, my gnome-session doesn't want to start
<barry> sil2100: okay, no worries.  send to the mailing list?
<sil2100> Suddenly dropped dead
<barry> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<sil2100> Yeah, will do, sorry about that, not sure what's going on
<barry> [AOB]
<barry> anybody have anything more to share?
<cyphermox> shim openssl code is evil.
<sil2100> I get a lot of nouveau FAULTS in dmesg, hm
<barry> my debian unstable box is living up to its nickname
<sil2100> brb, another reboot
<barry> i think we're done here
<barry> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Aug 18 15:17:40 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-08-18-15.01.moin.txt
<pitti> thanks everyone
<barry> thanks everyone
<caribou> thanks barry!
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-08-14
<sheiki> anyone from balkan? *
<yoginth> hello
<yoginth> i need to get @ubuntu.com email
<tsimonq2> yoginth: Why?
<yoginth> as im a contributer in ubuntu
<tsimonq2> yoginth_: Check out this page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership
<yoginth> i have already checked out
<yoginth> but i cant find any application form for that!
<tsimonq2> yoginth: How long have you been contributing to Ubuntu?
<yoginth> 7 months
<tsimonq2> yoginth: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/NewMember
<yoginth> do u have an ubuntu email?
<tsimonq2> Yes I do.
<yoginth> please tell me the procedures!
<tsimonq2> yoginth: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/NewMember
<yoginth> i cand find the form there!
<yoginth> how can i contact the council boards?
<tsimonq2> yoginth: There is no form. You prepare a wiki page, you describe your work contributing to Ubuntu for the past 7 months, you get endorsements from people who have witnessed your work, you put your name on the agenda for the next meeting and attend the meeting. That is the only way.
<tsimonq2> s/witnessed your work/worked with you/
<yoginth> i cant create the wiki first
<yoginth> there is no permission for me
<tsimonq2> yoginth: Apply here and wait to be approved: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-wiki-editors
<yoginth> how can i put my name to agenda?
<tsimonq2> yoginth: Read the wiki page I linked you to.
<yoginth> thanks
<tsimonq2> You're welcome.
<tyhicks> hello
<mdeslaur> \o
<tyhicks> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Aug 14 16:30:24 2017 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<meetingology`> Meeting started Mon Aug 14 16:30:24 2017 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology`> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<tyhicks> Simon Quigley (tsimonq2) provided debdiffs for trusty-zesty for vlc (LP: #1709420)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1709420 in vlc (Ubuntu) "[CVE] flac: Fix heap write overflow on frame format change" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1709420
<tyhicks> Simon Quigley (tsimonq2) provided debdiffs for trusty-zesty for menu-cache (LP: #1703564)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1703564 in menu-cache (Ubuntu Zesty) "[CVE] Socket may be blocked by another user" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1703564
<tyhicks> Thank you for your assistance in keeping Ubuntu users secure! :)
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<tyhicks> jdstrand: you're up
<tsimonq2> :D
<jdstrand> Last week's work is now being captured in the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/WeeklyReports so I'll typically not report on that here any more.
<jdstrand> This week I plan to focus on:
<jdstrand> - finishing my part of the wayland work. This is close to done and the wayland interface is already committed to master, but I'd like to add a spread test, finish my sway investigation, incorporate some snappy xdg-open changes and verify the new wayland-cursor in artful
<jdstrand> - finish desktop and accessibility PRs (respond to feedback, finalize services to expose, etc)
<jdstrand> - when investigating wayland-cursor for snapd, update apparmor to fix evince crash on startup in 17.10
<jdstrand> - be responsive to snappy PRs (in particular, Solus distro support, 'Using udev tagging for snap interfaces' and related refactoring PRs, portals PR if it comes in, layouts PRs, race-free profile generation next steps, dbus session services, etc)
<jdstrand> - add an execstack check (with advice on how to fix) to the review tools (this has come up 3 times in the last month)
<jdstrand> - try to push forward the open questions regarding snappy users/groups (including privilege dropping) with nie meyer as have time
<jdstrand> - add systemd-notify interface as have time (request from Chipaca)
<jdstrand> that's it from me. mdeslaur, you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm on bug triage this week
<mdeslaur> and I'm currently working on postgresql updates
<mdeslaur> I have a couple of updates in the ppa that I've been putting off testing for a while, I should probably get to them
<mdeslaur> after that, I'll go down the list, as usual
<mdeslaur> that's about it
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up
<tyhicks> I'll hop in and we'll come back to sbeattie
<tyhicks> now that the seccomp kernel patches look like they're on the path to landing, I will finish my libseccomp patch set and submit the PR
<tyhicks> still need to get to review pam_fscrypt
<tyhicks> upload fscrypt to the archive once the 32 bit architecture FTBFS issue is sorted out upstream
<tyhicks> that's probably all I'm goign to get to this week as I have a short week (off Thurs and Fri)
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
 * sbeattie can jump in
<tyhicks> go ahea
<sbeattie> I'm on cve triage this week
<sbeattie> I'll likely have an openjdk-7 update from td aitx to test and publish
<sbeattie> I'll pick up more updates from the list
<sbeattie> I also have some backlogged apparmor and qrt stuff to look at.
<sbeattie> that's it for me.
<tyhicks> jjohansen: go ahead if you're around
<jjohansen> I am working on upstreaming apparmor, I have a few more minor patches/cleanups to finish before sending out the next pull request
<jjohansen> and then I need to get back to finishing up the typesplitting work
<jjohansen> I suppose I also need to finish booking my travel for the ralley and uh need to give some feedback to Casey on the LSM stacking patches
<jjohansen> that is it for me sarnold you're up
<sarnold> I'm in the happy place this week; I'll be reviewing apparmor patches if john wants it, working on MIRs (pcp at the moment), and booking travel
<sarnold> that's it for me, ratliff?
<chrisccoulson> I'm here
<ratliff> go ahead chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> Short week for me - I'm off on holiday at the end of the week. I need to get Firefox 55.0.1 published (later today), and then I'll be spending time on the rust 1.19 updates
<chrisccoulson> although it looks like I'll be doing another firefox update
<chrisccoulson> that's me done
<ratliff> I'm in the happy place this week
<ratliff> I made good progress on kpis last week. I have a few more charts to create with the data that we already have on hand.
<ratliff> Then I need to document everything and check the scripts into UCT. After that, we need a couple more kpis but will be blocked awaiting access to data.
<ratliff> so kpis will be my main focus again this week
<ratliff> leosilva: you are up
<leosilva> This week I'm community
<leosilva> I want to finish libgd2 *stucking in tests on zesty*
<leosilva> Also want to pick more pkgs to up in the list.
<leosilva> that is for me.
<leosilva> tyhicks: it's up to you
<tyhicks> thanks
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/jython.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libcsoap.html
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/webfs.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/prewikka.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/slim.html
<tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
 * tsimonq2 smiles
<tyhicks> tsimonq2: hey - you've got something to discuss?
<tsimonq2> tyhicks: Nope, I just really enjoy the previous meeting item :P
 * tsimonq2 hides
<tyhicks> the highlighted packages part? that list is randomly generated without much thought put into it
<tyhicks> involved contributors have a better idea of updates that would be useful
<tsimonq2> Thanks for noting that :)
<ratliff> tyhicks: probably more the part where we thanked him for contributing :-)
<ratliff> thanks again tsimonq2 :-)
<tyhicks> yes, thank you! :)
<sarnold> \o/
<tsimonq2> You're welcome :)
<tyhicks> jdstrand, mdeslaur, sbeattie, jjohansen, sarnold, ChrisCoulson, ratliff, leosilva: Thanks!
<tyhicks> #endmeeting
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Aug 14 16:50:56 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-08-14-16.30.moin.txt
<meetingology`> Meeting ended Mon Aug 14 16:50:56 2017 UTC.
<meetingology`> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-08-14-16.30.moin.txt
<sarnold> thanks tyhicks!
<jjohansen> thanks tyhicks
<ratliff> thanks for running the meeting, tyhicks!
<leosilva> thanks tyhicks
<tsimonq2> Thanks tyhicks. :)
<sbeattie> tyhicks: thanks!
<mdeslaur> thanks tyhicks
<tsimonq2> I know someone emailed ubuntu-hardened about Firefox, someone might want to follow up...
<jdstrand> thanks tyhicks :)
<tyhicks> tsimonq2: good point
<tyhicks> chrisccoulson: could you reply to the ubuntu-hardened list with your firefox plans?
<tsimonq2> o/
<cpaelzer> o/ tsimonq2
 * tsimonq2 waits for the DMB meeting to start
<cpaelzer> good luck with your MOTU tsimonq2
<tsimonq2> Thanks cpaelzer, you as well with Core Developer :)
<rbasak> o/
<BenC> o/
<micahg> o/
<cpaelzer> tsimonq2: while we are waiting - a while ago you mentioned you could/want to help with triaging on weekends - if things run idle
<cpaelzer> tsimonq2: did you find the doc we replied with sufficient to do so?
 * cpaelzer hopes he doesn't mix up people
<tsimonq2> cpaelzer: irt getting set up with the security team?
<cpaelzer> server team in that case
<cpaelzer> tsimonq2: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase#Bug_Triage
<cpaelzer> tsimonq2: I think we had it on ubuntu-server mailing list about it, but not 100% sure
<tsimonq2> Ohhhh
<tsimonq2> cpaelzer: I've asked about it, I don't remember how recent though :P
<tsimonq2> But yeah, I'm down to help out :)
<cpaelzer> tsimonq2: if you really run dry the above should explain how we triage
<cpaelzer> and everything someone else touched automatically not show up in our daily runs
<tsimonq2> cpaelzer: ic, cool :)
<cpaelzer> no urge, but I thought while waiting for the bus together in this place
<tsimonq2> cpaelzer: Maybe we can follow up on #ubuntu-server a bit later, yeah ;)
<tsimonq2> According to https://launchpad.net/~developer-membership-board/+members there's currently 5 members, and it seems 3/5 here, I'm unfamiliar with the amount needed for quorum though...
<tsimonq2> s/here/are here/
<cpaelzer> LL from past applications - stay calm and they will tell us
<tsimonq2> Fair. :)
<micahg> it's actually a 7 person board with 2 unfilled seats at the moment
<rbasak> We need 4 :-/
<rbasak> We are somewhat stuck until others show up I'm afraid. I have pinged in #ubuntu-devel.
<cpaelzer> I have a "spend a beer once I see him again" reminder here, the next DMB meber to join will get a +1 on that
 * cpaelzer is trying everything to get things rolling
<dpb1> :)
<cpaelzer> rbasak: can you do another dmb-ping on -devel evn though it will end up only a 25% meeting that is better than nothing
<cpaelzer> I understand the situation with the vacant seats, but things seem to pile up
<tsimonq2> I agree.
 * cpaelzer sees the DMB day ahead to clean up
<tsimonq2> We're backlogged to next meeting even with applications.
<rbasak> cpaelzer: I tried!
<rbasak> I wonder if it has a rate limiter.
<rbasak> FWIW, last week there were no applications. So this is quite an unusual situation, and I expect it'll clear.
<cpaelzer> ok, feeling better
<cpaelzer> I'm more afraid of the (hopefully soon) new members to run into a marathon of DMB right at the start
<tsimonq2> rbasak: But I could also see members that are no longer on the DMB (technically, on Launchpad...) seeing the DMB ping and ignoring it because "someone forgot to update the bot"
<tsimonq2> *shrug*
<tsimonq2> rbasak: Could we possibly do this on the mailing list or will it be postponed to next meeting?
<rbasak> The problem with trying on the ML is that it can take forever to get a quorate vote there too, IME.
<tsimonq2> I see.
<rbasak> I prefer to see applications done on IRC, and would be fine with reducing the quorum, but I was vetoed on that.
<rbasak> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2017-July/001141.html if anyone's intereted.
<tsimonq2> rbasak: I don't personally think the solution would be to reduce quorum, but rather have people on the DMB who will show up :/
<rbasak> tsimonq2: that would be nice, yes :-/
<sarnold> I'm just in the peanut gallery here but it sure feels to me like the DMB may not be a useful thing any more. It feels like it almost never hits quorum.
<tsimonq2> sarnold: Ok, let's entertain that idea. What would be the replacement?
<rbasak> IMHO the current DMB members (present and absent) have all shown enough judgement and responsibility that I'd be happy with a smaller quorum if that's what it takes for it to remain functional.
<cyphermox> bah
<tsimonq2> cyphermox!!!
<tsimonq2> :)
<sarnold> tsimonq2: RNG flips a coin. you're allowed to hit the 'flip' button once a week. tada!
<cyphermox> I am not on the DMB, I have expired.
<tsimonq2> sarnold: hahahaha :P
<rbasak> I'm afraid I'm running out of time here.
<rbasak> I'm going to need to go in a few minutes.
<tsimonq2> Welp, I guess I can have fun with my sponsors for another two weeks ;)
<cpaelzer> don't feel bad, see you in two weeks then
<cpaelzer> rbasak: it is getting late for you as well - keep it in mind
<rbasak> I'm sorry the meeting didn't proceed today. Feel free to discuss on the ML. I'm open to you asking for consideration of our applicaiton directly on the ML. I'm just skeptical as to whether that will actually be any faster, though I will try and keep up with my end, of course.
<cpaelzer> and good luck with the weather next days rbasak
<rbasak> cpaelzer: thanks :)
<tsimonq2> rbasak: Alright, I'll think about whether I want to go to the ML or just wait... :)
<tsimonq2> Thanks rbasak, cpaelzer et. al! :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-08-15
<ahasenack> o/
<rharper> o/
<powersj> o/
<smb> o/
<cpaelzer> o~
<rharper> lol
 * cpaelzer has wobbly arms today
<cpaelzer> but I build a wall about twice my high about as wide
<slashd> o/
<dpb1> o/
<dpb1> since rbasak is litterally in the clouds somewhere, I'll be running things today.
<smb> cpaelzer, and is Mexico going to pay for it?
 * rharper snickers
<dpb1> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology`> Meeting started Tue Aug 15 16:02:42 2017 UTC.  The chair is dpb1. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology`> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Aug 15 16:02:42 2017 UTC.  The chair is dpb1. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<dpb1> welcome all
<dpb1> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<dpb1> * nacc to write a release notes entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<dpb1> * nacc to write a server guide entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<dpb1> * rbasak to add maintainership info to mysql triage page (carried over)
<dpb1> robie's of course we carry, nacc, yours?
 * dpb1 takes silence as agreement, carries
<dpb1> #action nacc to write a release notes entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<meetingology`> ACTION: nacc to write a release notes entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: nacc to write a release notes entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<dpb1> #action nacc to write a server guide entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<meetingology`> ACTION: nacc to write a server guide entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: nacc to write a server guide entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<dpb1> #action rbasak to add maintainership info to mysql triage page (carried over)
<meetingology`> ACTION: rbasak to add maintainership info to mysql triage page (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: rbasak to add maintainership info to mysql triage page (carried over)
<dpb1> #topic Artful Development
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Artful Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Artful Development
<dpb1> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtfulAardvark/ReleaseSchedule
<ahasenack> two bots again
<dpb1> double meeting notes!
<dpb1> will be exciting
 * rharper likes the prime one
<dpb1> feature freeze is coming up!
<dpb1> Aug 24th
<ahasenack> aug 24th
<rharper> whoa
<dpb1> #info feature freeze is Aug 24th!
<dpb1> We did a first pass at packages we wanted to sync before feature freeze
<ahasenack> http://pad.ubuntu.com/outstanding-server-merges is our merge list
<dpb1> cpaelzer, ahasenack, nacc: anything to add there?
<dpb1> thanks!
<ahasenack> dynamic merge list
<dpb1> was just looking for that link
<dpb1> #link http://pad.ubuntu.com/outstanding-server-merges
<cpaelzer> I'll tackle a few tmrw of the remaining one
<dpb1> #subtopic Current Work
<dpb1> #link https://trello.com/b/U9HhWyT0/daily-ubuntu-server
<dpb1> and of course
<dpb1> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-aa-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<cpaelzer> I've heard of partners starting more tests - but no flurry of new issues related to that yet
<dpb1> OK, let's move on, quiet day.  Maybe the lack of a nice hot camp fire this week is bumming people out
<dpb1> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs & SRU/Pending Uploads (slashd, ddstreet)
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs & SRU/Pending Uploads (slashd, ddstreet)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs & SRU/Pending Uploads (slashd, ddstreet)
<nacc> dpb1: yes, sorry, carry forward
<slashd> Business as usual for us, the only think I can think of is this bug (LP: #1657256), if a CoreDev have some cycle to sponsor the patch from my colleagues niedbalski for devel release.
<dpb1> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-z-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1657256 in percona-xtradb-cluster-5.6 (Ubuntu) "Percona crashes when doing a a 'larger' update" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1657256
<dpb1> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-x-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<dpb1> slashd: btw, have you looked at the git-ubuntu subcommand yet?
<slashd> dpb1, no I don't remember this discussion can you refresh my mind ?
<dpb1> slashd: I don't think it's ever been directly mentioned to you
<slashd> dpb1, ok I'll gladly have a look
<dpb1> slashd: when you have spare cycles.  just read up
<dpb1> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging/GitWorkflow
<powersj> and https://insights.ubuntu.com/2017/07/24/developing-ubuntu-using-git/
<slashd> dpb1, sure thanks
<dpb1> #link https://insights.ubuntu.com/2017/07/24/developing-ubuntu-using-git/
<dpb1> slashd: might want to ping the openstack guys on that one, btw
<dpb1> (the bug you raised)
<slashd> dpb1, ack will do someone in particular ?
<dpb1> slashd: probably start with beisner
<slashd> dpb1, ok thanks
<dpb1> ok, moving on
<dpb1> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
<dpb1> #link https://jenkins.ubuntu.com/server/
<powersj> Last week I attended DebConf17 and gave a talk on cloud-init: https://debconf17.debconf.org/talks/164/
<dpb1> woop woop
<powersj> This week I have finished setting up the new Xenial based VM slaves for jenkins and getting back to the cloud-init KVM backend. All that is left is figuring out the right set of commands to use with subp and mount-image-callback. Running into quote hell.
<ahasenack> what's subp?
<powersj> python subprocess
<ahasenack> k
<cpaelzer> "call a command"
<dpb1> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
<smb> Artful kernel: 4.12 is in proposed (but its hard to say when exactly that can get out), 4.13 in progress (waiting for some apparmor updates). Any questions?
<dpb1> smb: what's the hard to say bit?
<cpaelzer> smb: do you have a link what new in apparmor is coming?
<smb> dpb1, hard to say when aa 's are happy
<dpb1> ah, the moods of the AAs
<smb> cpaelzer, not right now
<cpaelzer> ok
<dpb1> Thanks smb
<dpb1> (oh, and thanks for the update slashd, sorry missed you earlier)
<dpb1> powersj doesn't get thanks
<dpb1> ;)
<dpb1> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Upcoming Call For Papers
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Upcoming Call For Papers
<powersj> lol
<dpb1> #link https://lwn.net/Calendar/Monthly/cfp/
<dpb1> #link http://www.open-zfs.org/wiki/OpenZFS_Developer_Summit
<dpb1> Any other CFPs we should call out here of interest to the server crowd?
<dpb1> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<dpb1> I wanted to mention here
<dpb1> The server team will be sprinting the week of Sep25
<dpb1> With many other teams at Canonical, hoping to get a jump start on the 18.04 roadmap
<dpb1> #info Any suggested things people would like to see in 18.04 on the server side, please do give us feedback on IRC, or at ubuntu-server@lists.ubuntu.com
<dpb1> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<dpb1> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase#Merge_Proposals_and_Reviewing
<dpb1> Did someone want to discuss that one this week?
<dpb1> ^
<ahasenack> that was from last week
<ahasenack> just not removed
<cpaelzer> yep
 * dpb1 nods
<cpaelzer> and we had a few people asking how they could help
<cpaelzer> and this is the perfect doc to point them to to start
<dpb1> slashd: btw, that is the eventual goal (that link), making merges operate with just merge proposals and git.
<dpb1> merges, srus, bug fixes, etc
<dpb1> ok
<dpb1> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<dpb1> #info Next meeting Tuesday, 2017-08-22 at 1600 UTC, chair will be rbasak
<dpb1> teward: are you available for backup next week if rbasak is out?
<dpb1> well, we will see when the time comes.
<dpb1> ok folks
<dpb1> that is it for now
<ahasenack> thx dpb1
<ahasenack> o/
<dpb1> thanks for attending
<dpb1> #endmeeting
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology`> Meeting ended Tue Aug 15 16:27:13 2017 UTC.
<meetingology`> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-08-15-16.02.moin.txt
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Aug 15 16:27:13 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-08-15-16.02.moin.txt
<sforshee>  /aaway lunch
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-08-13
<ratliff> \o/
<ratliff> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Aug 13 16:30:28 2018 UTC.  The chair is ratliff. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
 * sbeattie waves hello
<ratliff> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<ratliff> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<ratliff> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<ratliff> There are no new announcements today.
<ratliff> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<ratliff> jdstrand: you're up
<jdstrand> hey
<jdstrand> This week:
<jdstrand> - continue ESM alignment
<jdstrand> - various snapd policy updates for 2.35
<jdstrand> - brand store snap declarations
<jdstrand> - anbox-support
<jdstrand> - kubernetes-support interfaces
<jdstrand> - various snapd PR reviews
<jdstrand> - two embargoed items
<jdstrand> that's it from me
<ratliff> sbeattie: your turn
<sbeattie> I'm on community this week
<sbeattie> I have two embargoed issues I'm involved in
<sbeattie> I'm also working on a bind9 update
<sbeattie> I have some apparmor stuff on my back burner
<sbeattie> and that' probably the major points for me this week.
<sbeattie> jjohansen: over to you
<jjohansen> I need to finish getting together the 4.19 apparmor pull request.
<jjohansen> I have more work to do going through dhowell's mount rework patchset, so we can come up with a reasonable plan for how apparmor is going to deal with the changes.
<jjohansen> I need to try and get an apparmor 3 alpha this week
<jjohansen> I really need to spend some time on mjg's secmark patch for apparmor
<jjohansen> thats it for me sarnold you are up
<sarnold> I'm on bug triage this week; I'll be working down the MIRs, and doing any patch reviews for jjohansen as he asks for them
<sarnold> that's it for me, .. is chrisccoulson back?
<chrisccoulson> I'm just finishing off a GDM update
<chrisccoulson> then I've got a rust / cargo update to do
<chrisccoulson> there was a firefox update last week. I might do that too
<chrisccoulson> that will probably be it for my week
<ratliff> thanks, chrisccoulson
<ratliff> this is my last week at Canonical, so I'm primarily focused on finishing up my internal work. I have loved being a member of the Ubuntu Security Team.
<ratliff> ebarretto: leosilva is next, will you give his status, please?
<ebarretto> sure
<ebarretto> leosilva is in the happy place this week:
<ebarretto> - finishing libarchive USN
<ebarretto> - working in libxml2 update
<ebarretto> - waiting for testers for wpa pkg - please feel free to test it. it's in proposed
<ebarretto> - other than that leo is hunting pkg to update
<ebarretto> msalvatore, your turn
<msalvatore> I'm on CVE Triage this week.
<msalvatore> I'm currently working on some Node.js fixes that I hope to publish this afternoon.
<msalvatore> I'm planning to work on some redis fixes this week.
<msalvatore> In addition, I'll be working on some documentation for ESM alignment.
<msalvatore> That's it for me.
<msalvatore> I think it's back to you, ebarretto.
<ebarretto> I'm in the happy place this week:
<ebarretto> - ESM alignment
<ebarretto> - I've two package updates to be released today
<ebarretto> - I'm doing some internal tools changes
<ebarretto> - I've also done some CVE re-triage last week and will continue to do this week
<ebarretto> ratliff, back to you
<ratliff> thanks!
<ratliff> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<ratliff> The Ubuntu Security team suggests that contributors look into merging Debian security updates in community-supported packages. If you would like to help Ubuntu but are not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<ratliff> See http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/d2u/ for available merges and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details on preparing Ubuntu security updates. If you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-hardened. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<ratliff> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<ratliff> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<ratliff> jdstrand, sbeattie, jjohansen, sarnold, chrisccoulson, msalvatore, ebarretto: Thanks!
<jdstrand> ratliff: thank you for everything you've done for the team and for the millions of Ubuntu users out there by leading the team :)
<ratliff> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Aug 13 16:43:16 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-08-13-16.30.moin.txt
<msalvatore> thanks, ratliff
<jjohansen> thanks ratliff
<chrisccoulson> thank you, ratliff :)
<ebarretto> thanks ratliff! it's been a pleasure working with you this few weeks! good luck on your next steps!
<sbeattie> ratliff: thanks for everything, you'll be missed!
<sarnold> thanks ratliff! it's been wonderful working with you :)
 * ratliff hugs the security team
<sarnold> <3 *hugs*
<slashd> o/
<tsimonq2> Hey hey :)
<sarnold> tsimonq2: woot! :D
<slashd> I'll try to chair the meeting today for the first time.
<tsimonq2> ...if there's quorum. :P
<rbasak> o/
<rbasak> Individual applications on the agenda are supposed to have dates.
<rbasak> Dunno if we should be giving core dev to applicants who can't follow instructions :-P
<slashd> ;p
<tsimonq2> Waat. :P
<tsimonq2> It was over a week ago. :P
<slashd> Unit193 doesn't seems to in the channel
<slashd> shall we start the meeting or wait a little bit rbasak ?
<rbasak> tsimonq2: well that's one of the five bullet points :-P
<rbasak> slashd: sure. No point in starting unless we have quorum.
<rbasak> Well, maybe we could, and finish it by email, if we wanted.
<rbasak> I prefer to avoid that though, and I believe so do others.
<slashd> Let's wait a couple more minutes
<tsimonq2> rbasak: I just went directly to the DMB agenda and added my name... I don't remember seeing instructions :P
 * tsimonq2 looks
<sil2100> o/
<sil2100> I'm here as well
<tsimonq2> Hey hey sil2100 :)
<tsimonq2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/ApplicationProcess <-- ah.
<slashd> one DMB left for the quorum
<slashd> cyphermox ??
<rbasak> I think we might need one additional for tsimonq2, depending on whether he intends to vote on his own application.
<rbasak> Oh, sil2100 arrived. o/
<tsimonq2> rbasak: I dunno, can I? XD
<tsimonq2> hahahaha
<cyphermox> I'm there
<tsimonq2> \o/
<slashd> ok we are good
<cyphermox> just waiting for something to happen
<slashd> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Aug 13 19:08:56 2018 UTC.  The chair is slashd. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slashd> #topic Review of previous action items
<slashd> *rbasak to handle setting up PPU for blackboxsw
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review of previous action items
<slashd> *rbasak to handle setting up PPU for blackboxsw, everything good with that ?
<rbasak> Done
<slashd> #subtopic Unit193 MOTU application
<slashd> #topic Unit193 MOTU application
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Unit193 MOTU application
<slashd> There is no date on the application, and AFAIK Unit193 doesn't seems to be in the channel as we speak.
<slashd> I guess we can go straight to tsimonq2
<acheronuk> DalekSec = Unit193 AFAIK
<DalekSec> slashd: Kind of am.
 * acheronuk shuts up
<slashd> ok my apologize
<slashd> Unit193, can you introduce yourself
<Unit193> slashd: Hah, nah that's fine.
<tsimonq2> Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯
<Unit193> Hi, I'm Unit 193, I'm an Xubuntu developer (hence the Xubuntu packageset) but I also have an interest in areas outside of Xubuntu, though tend to stick to the fringe packages.  I'm currently a DM and going through the DD process.
<slashd> any questions for Unit193 ?
 * rbasak catches up
<sil2100> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unit193/MOTU <- application
<rbasak> Sorry, I hadn't reviewed applications in advance because I didn't know what we'd be handling when
<slashd> take your time
<rbasak> tsimonq2 says he's on the wrong side of a netsplit?
<rbasak> Unit193: can you remember a time you were surprised by a sponsor's review feedback?
<Unit193> rbasak: In a positive or negative way?  I'm presuming restricted to Ubuntu, let me take a look at sponsorships to remind me.
<rbasak> Unit193: either - any way that caused you to have to change your upload
<Unit193> There's been a time or two when I was slightly surprised that a merge was accepted.
<Unit193> Ah.
<tsimonq2> Unit193: When you say you were surprised to see a merge accepted, did you ask for sponsorship knowing it was a bad merge?
<Unit193> I poked at assaultcube a few times in early 2017, it had some weird interactions on odd arches.
<sil2100> Unit193: once you're done with this question - what changes are allowed to be uploaded to the development series after User Interface Freeze? Which not?
<Unit193> tsimonq2: No, it wasn't "bad", just when I wouldn't have thought Ubuntu would jump ahead of Debian or diverge.
<tsimonq2> Unit193: Ah.
<Unit193> sil2100: Well, as the name would imply, things that change strings/the look are generally not accceptable, though bugfixes would still be.
<tsimonq2> Unit193: So when you're done with sil2100's question, when is it appropriate to diverge from Debian?
<Unit193> UI freeze is after FF, so that also of course is implied.
<sil2100> Unit193: what if a bugfix would involve changing a visible string in the application? What about that?
<sil2100> Can someone still do something to get such a bugfix in?
<Unit193> sil2100: One can get approval from the release team, this would *mainly* apply to things installed by default.
<cyphermox> argh. sorry, what did I miss?
<slashd> cyphermox, do you need to backlog discussion ?
<sil2100> Unit193: does anyone else need to know about the incoming change, if approved by the release team?
<slashd> the backlog ^
<cyphermox> slashd: I'll pull logs
<slashd> cyphermox, ok otherwise I can send it to you in private
<Unit193> sil2100: Any docs or translation teams, though the latter doesn't usually apply often to universe.
<sil2100> Unit193: thanks o/
<rbasak> Unit193: did you answer my question above please? I was hoping for a specific example.
<Unit193> (Those translations tend to come from upstream exclusivly, so might well be part of whatever string fix you're trying to get approval for.)
<Unit193> rbasak: The only example I could think of off the top of my head was assaultcube.
<Unit193> A second upload was done to fix ppc64el.
<rbasak> Oh, I see, thanks
<slashd> Unit193, Are you familliar with proposed-migration update_output.txt ? and in which situation it might be useful to have a look ?
<Unit193> slashd: Yes, and figuring out what's blocking something from exiting proposed.
<Unit193> If you do an upload at a bad time and hit a perl migration, or a failing apport autopkgtest.
<slashd> thanks
<slashd> Any other question guys ?
<slashd> cyphermox ?
<tsimonq2> None here.
 * sil2100 is good
<slashd> ok let's move on with the vote then
<slashd> #vote Please vote on: Unit193 MOTU application
<meetingology> Please vote on: Please vote on: Unit193 MOTU application
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<tsimonq2> +1 keep up the good work!
<meetingology> +1 keep up the good work! received from tsimonq2
<rbasak> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from rbasak
<slashd> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from slashd
<sil2100> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from sil2100
<tsimonq2> cyphermox?
<tsimonq2> (I think that's quorum, but still.)
<tsimonq2> Bueller? :)
<Unit193> Dang, forgot to do PPU for irssi.  Oh well.
<tsimonq2> slashd: I don't know if cyphermox wants to vote but that's quorum.
<slashd> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Please vote on: Unit193 MOTU application
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<rbasak> I'm also +1 to give you PPU for irssi if others are willing to vote for that now.
<tsimonq2> ^
<sil2100> We could
<slashd> rbasak, should I open another vote ?
<Unit193> slashd: Should likely explain first?
<rbasak> slashd: if the chair so pleases :-P
<rbasak> (IOW, if that's what we want to do, then sure)
<slashd> I'm okay with it
<slashd> #vote Please vote on: Unit193 PPU right for irssi
<meetingology> Please vote on: Please vote on: Unit193 PPU right for irssi
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<tsimonq2> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from tsimonq2
<rbasak> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from rbasak
<slashd> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from slashd
<sil2100> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from sil2100
<tsimonq2> Quorum. \o/
<cyphermox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
<slashd> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Please vote on: Unit193 PPU right for irssi
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<slashd> Unit193, congrats \o/
<tsimonq2> Unit193: Congrats :)
<Unit193> Well dang, thanks!
<rbasak> Congratulations!
<rbasak> I'll take the action items to sort out access/announcement.
<slashd> tks rbasak
<tsimonq2> My turn? ;)
<slashd> #topic tsimonq2 Coredev application
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: tsimonq2 Coredev application
<tsimonq2> Hi, I'm Simon Quigley; 16 year old MOTU/Qt 5 Uploader, Lubuntu Release Manager/Main Developer, Director of Operations at Altispeed Technologies, and general Ubuntu superenthusiast. My full Ubuntu story is on my wiki page.
<tsimonq2> Please note that my application was updated by mapreri (right before going on VAC; see debian-private) just now and acheronuk in the past day, so please do reread if you haven't seen the updates quite yet.
<tsimonq2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/tsimonq2/Applications/CoreDeveloper
<rbasak> Will everyone be around long enough that we'll still have quroum at vote time?
<slashd> I'll stay as long as needed.
<cyphermox> I'm around
<sil2100> Same here
<tsimonq2> Cool.
<tsimonq2> Does anyone have any questions for me?
 * sil2100 needs a moment
<rbasak> What's the workflow you've been using to get things sponsored?
<rbasak> eg. https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debhelper/10.7.2ubuntu2 has no bug reference - did it go through the regular sponsorship queue?
<tsimonq2> I will admit it's not the regular workflow; I talk with sponsors directly.
<tsimonq2> If I know they're on vacation or something similar, I'll use the queue.
<tsimonq2> But it's given them a chance to become familiar with my uploads.
<tsimonq2> rbasak: Oh, that upload in particular wouldn't have.
<tsimonq2> It's the regression fix.
<tsimonq2> We were iterating in #ubuntu-release that day, if I recall correctly.
<rbasak> How do you pass your proposed uploader to one of your regular sponsors?
<rbasak> your proposed upload
<tsimonq2> If it's big enough and I'm unsure about some parts of it, I file a bug and link them. Otherwise, we have a Telegram group; I can just upload it there.
<tsimonq2> Sometimes it's pointless to file a bug if my sponsor's around and I have a debdiff in hand; it's filing a bug, then they respond with "sponsored" and it's done.
<tsimonq2> But if I'm questioning it, I file a bug and subscribe the previous uploader.
<rbasak> OK, thanks.
<rbasak> Next question: have you managed any transitions?
<tsimonq2> That goes for Universe uploads (which are self-serve for me now) and Main uploads.
<tsimonq2> rbasak: A couple, actually.
<tsimonq2> Right now, cosmic-proposed is a bit of a mess.
<tsimonq2> But, I'm doing Qt 5 and Imagemagick.
<tsimonq2> I was also helping with ffmpeg.
<tsimonq2> Qt 5 should(!) go into Debian Testing today; I'm doing it concurrently in Debian and Ubuntu.
<tsimonq2> Otherwise, in terms of managing transitions, I recently learned of a script Laney wrote to help management of that. Otherwise I use things like dose3...
<sil2100> tsimonq2: when preparing an SRU to a stable series, what should be put in the Regression Potential field? What is it's purpose?
<tsimonq2> sil2100: The purpose is to help identify any potential regressions, of course :) so if there's any chance the codebase could regress as the result of this update or any future updates, it should be at least mentioned.
<tsimonq2> sil2100: This is typically after a code review (if the changes are manageable enough) or general regression potential in the case of the microrelease exception.
<tsimonq2> There's a really good example of a bug report I wrote that follows that standard, if I can find it...
<tsimonq2> sil2100: The gvfs fix in my table: bug 1133477
<sil2100> tsimonq2: that's good enough, thanks
<ubottu> bug 1133477 in gvfs (Ubuntu Xenial) "[SRU] cut-n-paste move files got stuck forever" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1133477
<tsimonq2> Thanks sil2100
<sil2100> tsimonq2: oh, one more from me: let's say a package needs to be reverted to a previous upstream version because the new one is causing regressions
<sil2100> tsimonq2: how would you do that?
<tsimonq2> sil2100: What was the last upload? If it was just the new upstream release, that's easy enough, just grab the previous upload, grab the changelog entry for the upload with the new upstream release, add a new changelog describing the revert with 1.1.1-1ubuntu2+really1.1.0-1ubuntu1 or something along those lines. If the last upload was bugfix with a quilt patch or something like that, I'd need to
<tsimonq2> know (and perhaps investigate myself) if it still needs to be applied after the revert.
<tsimonq2> sil2100: Your question's a little bit broad; I'd need more details.
<sil2100> This is what I wanted to know basically
<sil2100> Thanks!
<tsimonq2> Thanks sil2100 :)
<sil2100> Ok, I'm good
<tsimonq2> rbasak: Did I answer your question earlier sufficiently?
<rbasak> Yes, thanks.
<slashd> Any other questions for tsimonq2 ?
<sil2100> I guess there's a different meeting here, maybe we should proceed to voting? Or is there any other questions?
<slashd> agreed
<rbasak> tsimonq2: have you handled proposed migration / handling excuses / getting autopkgtests to pass yourself?
<tsimonq2> rbasak: I have.
<rbasak> OK. I'm ready to vote then
<slashd> #vote Please vote on: Simon Quigley (tsimonq2) coredev application
<meetingology> Please vote on: Please vote on: Simon Quigley (tsimonq2) coredev application
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<rbasak> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from rbasak
<sil2100> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from sil2100
<slashd> +1 good work
<meetingology> +1 good work received from slashd
<slashd> cyphermox ?
<slashd> Let's give him a couple of minutes
 * sil2100 gently pokes cyphermox 
<tsimonq2> Thanks rbasak sil2100 slashd :D
<cyphermox> ugh
<cyphermox> I was +1, obviously
<slashd> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Please vote on: Simon Quigley (tsimonq2) coredev application
<meetingology> Votes for:3 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<cyphermox> too many things happening at once
<tsimonq2> \o/
<tsimonq2> Thanks!
<slashd> Congrats tsimonq2
<cyphermox> congrats tsimonq2
<slashd> #topic AOB before the end
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB before the end
<slashd> I guess we are good to end the meeting
<slashd> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Aug 13 20:19:33 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-08-13-19.08.moin.txt
<slashd> thanks guys, congrat again Unit193 and tsimonq2
<rbasak> slashd: we need action items to actually enable tsimonq2 too
<slashd> rbasak, right lo
<slashd> I'll take care of it
<tsimonq2> rbasak: So, before we do that.
<tsimonq2> I have one request.
<tsimonq2> Can I add myself to the LP team? :P
<rbasak> I don't see why not.
<rbasak> You can announce yourself too, if you like :)
<tsimonq2> Sure. ;)
<rbasak> tsimonq2: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/KnowledgeBase has the steps you need to follow
<tsimonq2> Thanks.
<slashd> ok tsimonq2 will then take care of himself ;)
<slashd> and rbasak of Unit193
<toddy> Hey gsilvapt. Do we have the meeting today?
<tsimonq2> All done, I think.
<toddy> or is any other around from the Ubuntu LoCo Council?
<wxl> here
<wxl> er
<toddy> tsimonq2: we have scheduled a meeting https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/Agenda
<wxl> wait nope
<tsimonq2> toddy: I was talking about my agenda item for the previous one.
<tsimonq2> Sorry for the confusion.
<toddy> tsimonq2: no problem
<toddy> ok
<toddy> wxl: I think you are not in that Council :D
<wxl> used to be :)
<wxl> forgot :)
<Unit193> slashd: Thanks.
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-08-16
 * slangasek waves
<philroche> \o
<cyphermox> o/
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Aug 16 15:01:55 2018 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e slangasek bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity cyphermox mwhudson rcj philroche Odd_Bloke juliank fginther)
<slangasek> cyphermox xnox Odd_Bloke infinity rcj doko fginther rbalint juliank tdaitx mwhudson slangasek bdmurray philroche sil2100
<cyphermox> yay
<cyphermox> winnitude
<cyphermox> - post-vacation catching-up
<cyphermox> - arm64 shim testing (mostly asking dannf)
<cyphermox> - submitting shim for signature by Microsoft, shim-review board
<cyphermox> - setup public trello for netplan work
<cyphermox> - back on upstream systemd-networkd code for KeepDown= (now ActivationMode=)
<cyphermox> - investigate RAID issues with grub-installer
<cyphermox> - disable grub's fallback to loading unsigned kernels
<cyphermox> (done)
<slangasek> xnox out today
<slangasek> Odd_Bloke:
<rcj> out today
<slangasek> ah
<slangasek> no infinity
<slangasek> rcj:
<rcj> * Orcle Compute Infrastructure cloud image improvements for iSCSI error handler logging
<rcj> * Various cloud partner image work
<rcj> (done)
<fginther> doko is out I think
<fginther> * Wrap up image publication for CVE-2018-5390
<fginther> * Build system vanguard
<fginther> * Image build and publication for CVE-L1TF (Foreshadow and friends)
<fginther> * Supplied test images to a partner to solve an image sizing issue
<ubottu> Linux kernel versions 4.9+ can be forced to make very expensive calls to tcp_collapse_ofo_queue() and tcp_prune_ofo_queue() for every incoming packet which can lead to a denial of service. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2018-5390)
<fginther> * Supplied a new image flavor to a partner
<fginther> â done
<slangasek> juliank:
<juliank> * losing random files on my btrfs in cosmic
<juliank> * new amd64-microcode/trusty MODULES=most change for bug 1778738
<ubottu> bug 1778738 in amd64-microcode (Ubuntu Trusty) "Default to early instead of auto if MODULES=most" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1778738
<juliank> * grub2 "check kernels are signed" change for bionic (bug 1786491)
<ubottu> bug 1786491 in grub2-signed (Ubuntu Bionic) "grub2 verify signed kernel exists or abort upgrade" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1786491
<juliank> * gpgme cosmic/bionic: Fix libgpgme-thread.so symlink (bug 1762384)
<ubottu> bug 1762384 in gpgme1.0 (Ubuntu Bionic) "libgpgme-dev installs libgpgme-pthread.so in /usr/lib/${DEB_HOST_MULTIARCH}, literally" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1762384
<juliank> * update-inetd 4.46really4.45: revert to fix errors due to /etc/inetd.conf not existing (unbreaks base-files [dict-foldoc], apt [auto-apt-proxy] autopkgtest), apt-cacher removal, probably others
<juliank> * merge wpa 2.6-18
<juliank> * merge gnutls 3.5.19
<juliank> (done, hopefully)
<slangasek> tdaitx:
<tdaitx> * following up openjdk on error tracker after update
<tdaitx> * rebuild + runtime tests for "outdated" java packages in bionic looking for sru candidates
<tdaitx> â¢ working on SRUs
<tdaitx> AOB:
<tdaitx> - out Today and next Tuesday+Thursday after lunch time, will leave Thursday team meeting 20-30 min earlier
<tdaitx> - taking 1 week vacation from 27/Aug to 01/Sep
<tdaitx> (done)
<cyphermox> juliank: you didn't get screams of agony from people upgrading grub2 and finding unsigned kernels?
<bdmurray> no mwhudson so slangasek
<juliank> cyphermox: Did not hear anything yet
<slangasek>  * short week; said I was at half capacity last Thursday, wound up being closer to zero
<slangasek>  * email catch-up after 2 days out
<cyphermox> good good
<slangasek>  * nvidia in clouds
<slangasek>  * SRU processing
<slangasek>  * minimal involvement with L1TF
<slangasek>  * intel-microcode licensing discussions
<slangasek>  * out tomorrow and Monday
<slangasek> (done)
<cyphermox> slangasek: what is L1TF?
<slangasek> cyphermox: the latest named kernel CVE
<philroche> cyphermox: L1 Terminal Fault
<cyphermox> oh
<cyphermox> yipee.
<bdmurray> SRU review of libreoffice with trigger-noawait change for xenial
<bdmurray> upgrade testing with libreoffice with trigger-noawait change for xenial
<bdmurray> SRU verification / testing of apport bugs LP: #1778694, LP: #1778497
<bdmurray> SRU verification of LP: #1783589, 1783593, 1783738, 1785096
<bdmurray> SRU verification of u-r-u change for gnome-menus bug LP: #1766890
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1778694 in apport (Ubuntu Bionic) "In autoreport mode in whoopsie-preferences API, reports are not sent by whoopsie" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1778694
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1778497 in apport (Ubuntu Bionic) "Add a remember option to whoopsie so that users can diminish crash interactions" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1778497
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1783738 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "_checkStoreConnectivity uses translatable strings for error checking " [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1783738
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1785096 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Bionic) "dist-upgrader should clean up downloaded debs" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1785096
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1783589 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Bionic) "ubuntu-release-upgrader crashes if snapd is not installed" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1783589
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1783593 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "UI frozen and no information when the upgrader is installing snap packages" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1783593
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1766890 in gnome-menus (Ubuntu) "package gnome-menus 3.13.3-6ubuntu3.1 failed to install/upgrade: triggers looping, abandoned" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1766890
<bdmurray> modified ubuntu-release-upgrader to switch snap channels for Cosmic LP: #1748581
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1748581 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Cosmic) "ubuntu-release-upgrader will need to know how to switch snaps between Ubuntu release channels during an upgrade" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1748581
<bdmurray> review of release upgrade bug reports
<bdmurray> â done
<bdmurray> enabled upgrades from Ubuntu 16.04 to Ubuntu 18.04
<bdmurray> reinstalled my desktop since I got new hard drives
<philroche> * Migration of clouds to new cloud image build system
<philroche> * Cloud image publication for L1 Terminal Fault (L1TF) CVE
<philroche> (done)
<slangasek> and sil2100 is out
<slangasek> any questions?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
<slangasek> bdmurray: ?
<bdmurray> jibel tagged bug 1704510 for us
<ubottu> bug 1704510 in partman-efi (Ubuntu) "Partman should warn about not having an EFI system partition" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1704510
<juliank> Didn't we ensure this does not happen in bionic?
<juliank> or did we only look at automatic stuff?
<slangasek> well, that bug is older than our changes
<cyphermox> no, this sounds exactly like what sil2100 was changing
<cyphermox> yup
<slangasek> so maybe jibel wants to give us a fresh bug report
<bdmurray> okay, I'll follow up with him
<bdmurray> Then bug 1772374
<ubottu> bug 1772374 in OEM Priority Project "ubiquity need mount point /sys/firmware/efi/efivars" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1772374
 * cyphermox to jfdi
<bdmurray> That's all from me.
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else?
<bdmurray> when was bug 1704510 fixed?
<ubottu> bug 1704510 in partman-efi (Ubuntu) "Partman should warn about not having an EFI system partition" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1704510
<bdmurray> There are some recent duplicates of it so I'm curious about what version it was fixed in.
<slangasek> bdmurray: before 18.04.1
<slangasek> looking for version
<slangasek> bdmurray: I think ubiquity 18.04.14.3
<tdaitx> not sure this counts as a bug (as in I'm using i3wm instead of the default wm), but keyboard-configuration generated a bogus keyboard config for my system when it migrated to /etc/default/keyboard
<tdaitx> I'm still taking a look at its migration scripts to understand what happened
<slangasek> is that a recent migration? I don't recall where it was before
<slangasek> tdaitx: anyway, I don't think there's anything that should be wm-specific about that, please file a bug report
<tdaitx> slangasek: ack, just wondering as other desktops usually have their own tool to deal with keyboard model/layout/etc
<slangasek> tdaitx: sure, perhaps that masks the bug on those desktops, but /etc/default/keyboard shouldn't be invalid
<tdaitx> slangasek: the new file is dated 10th August, so I'm assuming it is a recent one, I rebooted recently then I noticed that keyboard was 'broken' on X and console
<tdaitx> still looking into that
<slangasek> anything else? :)
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Aug 16 15:37:21 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-08-16-15.01.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks, all!
<tdaitx> thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-08-12
<slashd> o/
<tsimonq2> o/
<slashd> o/ GunnarHj
<GunnarHj> slashd: Yeah, I'm here for the case you need me.
<slashd> GunnarHj, could we postpone your application to next DMB mtg, I'm afraid we don't meet the quorum for today mtg
<slashd> a few folks are in vacation
<GunnarHj> slashd: Sure, it's not exactly an emergency.. I thought that rbasak would be present, though, considering that he added that item a couple of hours ago.
<slashd> GunnarHj, thanks for your understanding, even if rbasak show up, we will be missing one DMB member still for the quorum
<GunnarHj> slashd: I see. Guess there is not much choice in that case.
<slashd> GunnarHj, unfortunately not, my apologies.
<slashd> If anyone want to bring something to the DMB, I'll stay around for the next hour or so but I won't officially start the DMB meeting.
<slashd> tsimonq2, anything you want to add ?
<slashd> Ok it's pretty quiet ;) let's call it a day ! see you at next DMB meeting.
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-08-15
<juliank> o/
<waveform> o/
<bdmurray> o/
<rbalint> o/
<juliank> #startmeeting Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Aug 15 15:03:02 2019 UTC.  The chair is juliank. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic:
<juliank> #topic Lightning rounds
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Lightning rounds
<juliank> echo $(shuf -e vorlon bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity cyphermox mwhudson juliank waveform)
<juliank> bdmurray tdaitx vorlon mwhudson doko infinity xnox sil2100 juliank rbalint waveform cyphermox
<bdmurray> finished conversion of daisy to python-cassandra (not retracer code though)
<bdmurray> submitted MP and RT regarding updating daisy in production (x2)
<bdmurray> discovered that daisy wasn't really updated in production / got it done again
<bdmurray> research into daisy w/ python-cassandra causing OOM kills
<bdmurray> reverted daisy to previous version without python-cassandra
<bdmurray> resolved issue with Error Tracker daily user count cronjob
<bdmurray> review of u-r-u MP regarding calculating snap size requirements
<bdmurray> fixed a Traceback when writing to CouldNotBucket in cassandra
<bdmurray> triage of ubuntu-bug failing LP: #1814611
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1814611 in apport (Ubuntu Eoan) "turning off "Send error reports to Canonical" prevents using ubuntu-bug" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1814611
<bdmurray> review of MP regarding sru-report re: block-proposed tag
<bdmurray> something of a short week as I was out yesterday
<bdmurray> â done
<bdmurray> no tdaitx
<bdmurray> vorlon: ?
<vorlon> oh noes
<vorlon> ok
<vorlon>  * discussions around secureboot on ARM for a customer
<vorlon>  * proposed-migration
<vorlon>   * includes kicking off the mysql8 transition and trying to address long-stuck packages
<vorlon>  * reviewing an ubuntu-image request from sil2100
<vorlon> * NEW reviews in SRU
<vorlon> (done)
<doko> no mwhudson ...
<doko> * back from vacations
<doko> * catch up with things
<doko> (done)
<juliank> No infinity
<juliank> xnox:
<xnox> * uc20:
<xnox>   consoleconf & core20 now works
<xnox> * s390x stuff:
<xnox>   bug #1837016
<ubottu> bug 1837016 in Ubuntu on IBM z Systems "[19.10 FEAT] Enhanced CPU-MF hardware counters - libpfm part" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1837016
<xnox>   bug #1836532
<ubottu> bug 1836532 in Ubuntu on IBM z Systems "[19.10 FEAT] Upgrade libdfp 1.0.14" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1836532
<xnox>   bug #1839123
<ubottu> bug 1839123 in Ubuntu on IBM z Systems "[19.10 FEAT] gzip compression improvements addl. patch required" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1839123
<xnox>   bug #1835048
<ubottu> bug 1835048 in Ubuntu on IBM z Systems "[19.10 FEAT] openCryptoki ica token: add SHA*-RSA_PKCS_PSS mechanisms" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1835048
<xnox> * atlas progressing on z14 optimizied builds
<xnox> done
<xnox> next
<juliank> sil2100 is out
<juliank> It's my turn
<juliank> .. some weird clicking later ..
<juliank>  * uploaded gpgme1.0 to bionic to fix FTBFS there (LP: #1813581)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1813581 in gpgme1.0 (Ubuntu Bionic) "gpgme1.0 ftbfs in 18.04 LTS" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1813581
<juliank>  * otherwise, it's been kind of an *apt* week.
<juliank>  * released apt 1.8.3, (fake-ish)-synced to disco, 1.8.3~deb10u1 for Debian stable (LP: #1838771 amongst others)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1838771 in apt (Ubuntu Disco) "http:Fix Host header in proxied https connections" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1838771
<juliank>  * fixed a segmentation fault introduced in apt 1.9.2 (https://salsa.debian.org/apt-team/apt/merge_requests/73, LP: #1839714)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1839714 in apt (Ubuntu) "Segmentation fault when running apt update using libapt-pkg5.90_1.9.2" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1839714
<juliank>  * wondering why dpkg SRU was released on disco and xenial but not bionic (that's not a sane order ;))
<juliank>  * learned more about AppStream and what the needs are on a package management daemon side
<juliank>  * started preparing to run black on python-apt code
<juliank> also as a special announcement: APT PATTERNS (for packages) ARE HERE! (https://salsa.debian.org/apt-team/apt/merge_requests/74)
<juliank>  * Purge config files: apt purge ?config-files
<juliank>  * Remove autoremovable packages: apt remove ?garbage
<juliank>  * Install packages with weird queries: apt install ?or(?name(^apt$),?and(?true,?false))
<juliank>  * Show all upgradable packages: apt-cache show ?upgradable
<juliank>  * Caveats: It's not working for search and inside preferences files so far
<juliank>  * https://people.debian.org/~jak/apt-search-terms.html contains more info (but is badly rendered; it's apt-patterns(5) manpage).
<juliank>  * Patterns for versions coming at a later point, but trying to get them in before feature freeze
<juliank>  * Will be writing a blog post about that stuff, it's super exciting.
<juliank> (done)
<juliank> rbalint:
<rbalint> * tried to migrate a 243-rc1 then got it dropped from eoan-proposed and rebuilt rev deps that needed that
<rbalint> * now preparing 241 for eoan and continuing fixing up 243 for eoan+1
<rbalint> * partner work
<rbalint> (done)
<waveform> * Pi 4 boot:
<waveform> * Got u-boot working reliably across pi versions but only with conditional sections (separate u-boot for 2, 3, and 4); still no fb or kbd for u-boot on pi4 though (lacking drivers)
<waveform> * Tidying up mkknlimg usage by pi for bug #1805668 (appears mkknlimg is no longer required; have removed it apparently successfully from the experimental u-boot package)
<waveform> * Got a kernel working with both pi3 and pi4 \o/ (still stripping out irrelevant patches)
<waveform> * Kernel appears fully functional on the 3, but not fully on 4 (ethernet and framebuffer working, but neither USB2 nor USB3 - lacking some config)
<ubottu> bug 1805668 in linux-firmware-raspi2 (Ubuntu) "Building armhf and arm64 Raspberry Pi 3 images" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1805668
<waveform> * With a bit more work should be possible to have a single classic distribution that works on all (supported) pi platforms
<waveform> * Upgrade path for older versions is under consideration
<waveform> (done)
<cyphermox> I was out Friday, Monday and Tuesday.
<cyphermox> visited wineries, looked at Legos and stuff
<cyphermox> preparing netplan release
<cyphermox> (done)
<juliank> I guess no questions on status?
<juliank> #topic Release incoming bugs (eoan)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Release incoming bugs (eoan)
<juliank> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ee-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<bdmurray> bug 1840122
<ubottu> bug 1840122 in linux (Ubuntu) "System fails to reboot from live session or ubiquity-dm - squashfs_read_data failed to read block" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1840122
<xnox> bdmurray:  so, we had those squashfs error on subiquity iso during disco release.
<xnox> bdmurray:  the "fails to reboot" i wonder if it's again "waiting for someone to press enter"
<vorlon> finalrd?
<xnox> because the squashfs_read_data hides the messages.
<vorlon> are we doing finalrd yet?
<xnox> hmmmm
<xnox> i remember writting a finalrd hook, but i can't remember if i shipped it or not
<vorlon> I'm sure you didn't
<vorlon> something something late in cycle
<vorlon> so do we want to commit to this?
<xnox> apw:  remember squashfs errors during disco sprint on subiquity image? now happening on regular desktop image too as reproduced by jibel......
<xnox> apw:  did we ever look into squashfs, as in are we building them wrong? is media bad? or kernel too strict?
<juliank> #topic Release incoming bugs (bionic)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Release incoming bugs (bionic)
<juliank> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<apw> xnox, i remember vaguly, do we have an example of a thing which is bad ?
<vorlon> [ACTION] xnox and apw to get to the bottom of LP: #1840122 and report back
<meetingology> ACTION: xnox and apw to get to the bottom of LP: #1840122 and report back
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1840122 in linux (Ubuntu) "System fails to reboot from live session or ubiquity-dm - squashfs_read_data failed to read block" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1840122
 * apw fades into the backgroun
<gaughen> d
<apw> *a spooky voice says* "its there bug faded out"
<juliank> that's what I said!
<vorlon> the only bug there is a 'low' systemd bug that appears to be in someone else's hands, not for us
<vorlon> move on?
<juliank> ok!
<juliank> ?
<xnox> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/1837700
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1837700 in OEM Priority Project "Dell system takes a long time to connect network with external dock" [Critical,In progress]
<xnox> Need fix landing in bionic before 31st of August.
<xnox> ddstreet:  can we chat about systemd SRU bugs? they don't quite make sense to me, and I'm not sure if things were tested on non-dell systems, and like upgrades from xenial with ifupdown.
<xnox> juliank:  NEXT
<juliank> #topic Team proposed-migration report
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<juliank> #link http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#foundations-bugs
<cyphermox> I'm already looking at pyyaml (since last week)
<rbalint> prometheus-blackbox-exporter can't be installed and to fix it it needs breaking a build cycle
<rbalint> i'm already on it
<ddstreet> xnox sure anytime
<juliank> cyphermox: hang on, I have a card for that
<cyphermox> juliank: ok, well it's /mostly/ rerunning the tests with the right trigers
<rbalint> can i just badtest prometheus-blackbox-exporter for a little to migrate debconf?
<gaughen> are we talking btrfs?
<vorlon> btrfs-progs: xnox has already got an mp to curtin for this
<vorlon> so that's in progress
<gaughen> cool
<juliank> what's broken there? it says candidate
<seb128> vorlon, xnox, apw, commenting a bit later, but that reboot issue is what is making daily ISO testing fail in UTAH and daily-proposed desktop not moving to current (so would be nice to get to the bottom of it)
<gaughen> then the debconf one
<vorlon> rbalint: if prometheus-blackbox-exporter can't be installed, is that an autopkgtest failure that we should ignore?
<gaughen> rbalint has debconf
<xnox> seb128:  ah, interesting! thanks.
<vorlon> prometheus-blackbox-exporter badtest added
<vorlon> golang-defaults, I've previously flagged to mwhudson's attention
<gaughen> vorlon, I'll put on his plate
<vorlon> juliank: you know to look in update_output.txt for things that are lingering in 'candidate'?
<juliank> vorlon: no
<vorlon> juliank: 'candidate' only means that this package meets all the policies (built, tests) for it to be considered for migration.  It can still block, if migrating it would make other packages uninstallable
<vorlon> and that information is in update_output.txt
<juliank> skipped: btrfs-progs (9, 33, 80)
<juliank>     got: 41+0: a-16:a-7:a-7:i-5:p-3:s-3
<juliank>     * amd64: curtin, subiquity, subiquity-tools
<juliank> that's super readable
<vorlon> ;)
<juliank> Can't we have britney output that to the html
<vorlon> no
<vorlon> it's a completely second pass
<juliank> ugh
<juliank> not a good ux :D
<vorlon> nope
<vorlon> but it's what exists today
<cyphermox> I had started discussing that with upstream
<cyphermox> (ie. outputting some json or whatnot that could then be used)
<vorlon> also that file is basically log output of a process that may run multiple times
<cyphermox> yeah :/
<juliank> anyway...
<cyphermox> and outputting it is performance-sensitive
<vorlon> anyway, something better would be nice, but is non-trivial :)
<vorlon> yes
<juliank> let's continue with libvpx?
<vorlon> libvpx is a library transition; seb128 was looking at it the other day
<cyphermox> I kinda half know what I'm getting into there, but I'm volunteering to help seb128 with it if necessary
<seb128> I didn't get far and I'm off tomorrow so if someone wants to look as well please do
<vorlon> ffmpeg had a failing autopkgtest on armhf; xpra fails on ppc64el; and it's entangled with mysql via mythtv (which might be transiently removable)
<cyphermox> we can still move it forward a bit
<seb128> ffmpeg got updated to a new version at the same time as the libvpx update, we would try the previous version on armhf to see if that one works
<gaughen> thanks cyphermox
<seb128> I wanted to do that today but didn't get to it
<juliank> python-tz caused pandas to regress
<vorlon> juliank: python2-only regression?
<vorlon> do we resolve that by dropping python2 from pandas? :)
<juliank> unittests            FAIL non-zero exit status 137
<juliank> unittests3           PASS
<juliank> I mean looks like it
<vorlon> there are a few revdeps that would need unwinding, but it's tractable and probably a better use of time than fixing the python2-specific ppc64el pandas test failure
<juliank> ../../../usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/pandas/tests/series/test_analytics.py::TestSeriesAnalytics::test_isin Killed
<xnox> http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/p/pandas/eoan/amd64 -> triggered by pytest => fails in both py2 and py3
<xnox> because of newer pytest
<xnox> https://pandas-docs.github.io/pandas-docs-travis/whatsnew/v0.25.0.html
<vorlon> a volunteer to drop python2 support for pandas and its revdeps?
<gaughen> do it vorlon
<vorlon> ok
<vorlon> I'll take it
<gaughen> aptdaemon
<juliank> So
<juliank> this was passing once
<juliank> it normally does not
<juliank> there is some weird hang on arm64 most of the time
<vorlon> once upon a time once, or exactly once once?
<vorlon> so it's flaky and we should badtest it?
<juliank> and it's only regressing now because it suddenly passed
<juliank> yeah
<rbalint> juliank, i'm adding a badtest
<xnox> http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/m/mysql-connector-c++ good url
<rbalint> hints for today https://code.launchpad.net/~rbalint/britney/autopkgtest-eoan-hints/+merge/371356
<juliank> let's skip the rest of the list, it's getting long
<juliank> #topic Chair selection for next meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Chair selection for next meeting
<cyphermox> I volunteer
<juliank> acknowledged!
<juliank> #topic AOB
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<juliank> any other business?
<vorlon> rbalint: merged; were you going to add mysql-connector-c++ hints also?
<rbalint> vorlon, i pushed that as well a few secs ago :-)
<vorlon> ok
<rbalint> i'm rebasing
<rbalint> a sec
<vorlon> rbalint: you forgot the word 'force-badtest' at the start of that hint ;)
<rbalint> ahh
<vorlon> juliank: no other business
<juliank> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Aug 15 16:04:17 2019 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2019/ubuntu-meeting.2019-08-15-15.03.moin.txt
<vorlon> thanks, all!
<rbalint> vorlon, fixed the hint, thanks!
<vorlon> and re-merged
<vorlon> xnox: ^^ see? that easy
#ubuntu-meeting 2020-08-10
<ddstreet> o/
<sil2100> o/
<rbasak> o/
<rafaeldtinoco> o/
<sil2100> Guess that's a quorum, I think it's my  time to chair, right?
<rafaeldtinoco> Upcoming: Åukasz, Teward, Rafael, Dan, Robie, Eric <wrap>
<rafaeldtinoco> yep
<sil2100> #startmeeting DMB meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Aug 10 19:01:50 2020 UTC.  The chair is sil2100. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | DMB meeting | Current topic:
<sil2100> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | DMB meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items
<sil2100> #subtopic rafaeldtinoco to check edubuntu seed <-> pkgset relationship (generation) and if edubuntu pkgsets can be dropped (carried over)
<rafaeldtinoco> I think this is duplicated
<rafaeldtinoco> ddstreet: ^ did you have this also ?
<rafaeldtinoco> (last item)
<sil2100> Ah, indeed
<ddstreet> rafaeldtinoco yeah i think that's a new one on my action list
<sil2100> ddstreet: any progress? Or should we carry over?
<ddstreet> new from last mtg
<ddstreet> no progress sorry, plz carry over
<sil2100> Ok then
<sil2100> #subtopic rafaeldtinoco to create, for now, a small "what-to-do" for pkgset changes in -devel (document exceptions inclusion for DMB team) (carried over)
<rafaeldtinoco> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers/SeedsAndAutomatedPkgsets
<rafaeldtinoco> and its a Makefile now
<rafaeldtinoco> this is the "quick what to do"
<rafaeldtinoco> it will get better (as the long standing item)
<rafaeldtinoco> for now you can consider done
<sil2100> Ok, thanks! I'll have to read that up - today I quickly wanted to use it but it errored out when I tried running `make fetch`
<rafaeldtinoco> just ping me
<sil2100> But I didn't look into the details, need to try again
<rafaeldtinoco> sure thing
<sil2100> I was too busy with pointy-release stuff
<sil2100> #subtopic rafaeldtinoco link team delegation from dmb kb page when reading ddstreet updates (carried over)
<rbasak> rafaeldtinoco: nicely done - thanks!
<rbasak> Is that linked to from anywhere?
<rafaeldtinoco> that is this item ^
<rafaeldtinoco> and no, where should I like it ?
<rafaeldtinoco> (it will get bigger and more detailed)
<rbasak> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/KnowledgeBase is the general starting point for DMB-internal docs
<rafaeldtinoco> ok
<rbasak> (internal as in not relevant to anyone but active DMB members, but public of course)
<rafaeldtinoco> sil2100: mark this as carried over then., it will be done next meeting
<rafaeldtinoco> rbasak: tku
<sil2100> Sure o/
<ItzSwirlz> o/
<sil2100> #subtopic DMB to vote at next mtg(s) on controlling the membership access for the OEM enablement metapackages
<rbasak> I was distracted during the previous meeting, sorry.
<rbasak> But AIUI, there's nothing being done here yet, except to define a packageset?
<sil2100> Yeah, so I'm reading the previous meeting logs now
<sil2100> I think we agreed that we would just be creating a packageset and delegating the management of those permissions to ubuntu-archive, correct?
<rafaeldtinoco> As a first step towards making this self service for that team, I'd like
<rafaeldtinoco> to ask the DMB to consider making a packageset for this purpose.
<rafaeldtinoco> Initially it'll have no uploaders apart from ~ubuntu-core-dev, so we're
<rafaeldtinoco> considering the set itself only right now.
<sil2100> Is this something we should vote on?
<rafaeldtinoco> this is the core part for now
<rafaeldtinoco> we will have people applying for upload rights later
<rafaeldtinoco> iirc
<sil2100> Ok, so only voting on creating the packageset for now with core-dev as members, without team delegation?
<rafaeldtinoco> i would set the team ready
<rafaeldtinoco> just so we dont need AA later
<rafaeldtinoco> this way we can manage permissions as they apply
<rbasak> Create a team maybe, and add only ~ubuntu-core-dev to it initially
<rafaeldtinoco> yep
<rafaeldtinoco> then we are good to go for applications
<sil2100> Do we want to define the initial packageset contents formally?
<rbasak> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/KnowledgeBase#Personal_packagesets_and_glob_expansions is prior art for "glob-based" packagesets
<rbasak> There, the formal packageset contents was defined in the packageset description using the glob pattern
<rafaeldtinoco> yep
<rafaeldtinoco> m tells me
<rafaeldtinoco> that packageset permissions can be added if a source package exists
<rafaeldtinoco> *anywhere* (i.e. in a PPA), not just in Ubuntu. So there would be a
<rafaeldtinoco> script which enumerates a staging PPA and adds packages found there
<rafaeldtinoco> which match the glob 'oem-*-meta' to the packageset.
<sil2100> Yeah, so the glob here would be oem-*-meta
<rafaeldtinoco> they want source packages to come automatically from a staging ppa
<sil2100> Ok, so let me formulate the vote then
<rbasak> rafaeldtinoco: I would prefer to require the glob to be driven from the archive, not from a PPA
<rbasak> I'm not sure a packageset containing a package not in the archive would work anyway
<rafaeldtinoco> rbasak: what are the cons ?
<rafaeldtinoco> ah i see
<ddstreet> that was a concern for me also rbasak, driving the packageset from a ppa is essentially opening a backdoor into the archive
<rbasak> It's confusing, because the DMB's remit relates to the archive only
<rafaeldtinoco> you mean an upload for a source that we dont have
<rafaeldtinoco> yep
<rbasak> And also what ddstreet says
<rbasak> The process would be:
<rbasak> Get a core dev or MOTU sponsored upload into the archive
<rbasak> Get an AA to do the NEW review
<rbasak> Ask the DMB to run the script to update the packageset using the glob pattern
<rbasak> In that order
<sil2100> Are we ready to vote on the base part?
<rafaeldtinoco> what is the NEW review ?
<rafaeldtinoco> rbasak: ^
<ddstreet> sil2100 is there specific wording that we're voting on now?
<rafaeldtinoco> sil2100: I think we are all +1 on this, currently discussing the implementation
<sil2100> #vote Creation of a new canonical-oem-metapackages packageset and owning team for the glob expansion of oem-*-meta, initially having ~ubuntu-core-dev as the only member
<meetingology> Please vote on: Creation of a new canonical-oem-metapackages packageset and owning team for the glob expansion of oem-*-meta, initially having ~ubuntu-core-dev as the only member
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<sil2100> (we need a formal vote)
<sil2100> Did I  get this right?
<rbasak> +1 assuming that the glob expansion will be performed from archive packages only
<meetingology> +1 assuming that the glob expansion will be performed from archive packages only received from rbasak
<ddstreet> +1 for pkgset and team creation
<meetingology> +1 for pkgset and team creation received from ddstreet
<sil2100> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from sil2100
<rafaeldtinoco> +1 for both
<meetingology> +1 for both received from rafaeldtinoco
<sil2100> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Creation of a new canonical-oem-metapackages packageset and owning team for the glob expansion of oem-*-meta, initially having ~ubuntu-core-dev as the only member
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<sil2100> Ok, motion carried, yes, we can proceed with implementation details
<sil2100> ;)
<rafaeldtinoco> sorry, had in my head this was already voted previously
<rafaeldtinoco> thanks
<ddstreet> i think at the last mtg we said it would be better to defer the specific pkgset operation to ubuntu-archive or ubuntu-sru team, is that right? and dmb would only manage team membership?
<sil2100> I don't think it was, as the action item was to vote on it now
<rafaeldtinoco> ddstreet: we did say that
<rafaeldtinoco> but never agreed
<sil2100> Yeah
<rafaeldtinoco> im thinking if that would be easier for them
<ddstreet> i do agree with rbasak on the concerns around the implementation, but maybe that's best for a different team to work out?
<rbasak> AIUI then, we'd define the glob expansion (ie. define the script that does the glob expansion) but ~ubuntu-archive or ~ubuntu-sru would actually run it?
<rbasak> If that's considered useful, then sure
<rafaeldtinoco> im ok with that
<ddstreet> i'm ok either way
<rafaeldtinoco> rbasak: would that be a burden for the sru team ?
<rafaeldtinoco> thinking on what would be best for all (SRU team and this new team)
<sil2100> Same here, I don't think it's that much of a deal to actually need to be delegated though
<rafaeldtinoco> if its just running a script
<rafaeldtinoco> i can do it with the weekly pkgset
<rbasak> The SRU team aren't used to managing packagesets or running recognising weird edge cases to run appropriate scripts
<rafaeldtinoco> pkgset <-> seed sync
<rafaeldtinoco> i can run both together
<rafaeldtinoco> do we have a "production"  place
<rafaeldtinoco> to land those things ?
<rbasak> I'm not refusing to do it on behalf of the SRU team or anything, but I'm not sure it's going to be helpful. In practice it'll end up getting missed I think
<sil2100> I'd say let's leave it under our control for now
<ddstreet> sounds like rafaeldtinoco is taking an action item to add it to the tooling then? :)
<rafaeldtinoco> rbasak: that is understood
<rafaeldtinoco> ddstreet: its ok for me.. i was just wondering
<rafaeldtinoco> is my home the best place to run cron jobs ?
<rbasak> I'm with sil2100. Let's leave it under our control for now.
<rafaeldtinoco> should I deploy it somewhere ?
<rbasak> We don't have a good place to cron it from
<rafaeldtinoco> ok, it will continue here then
<rbasak> We could start by just responding to a ping from an uploader who is stuck
<rbasak> And then go from there
<sil2100> Ok, let's put some action items
<sil2100> Who wants to take the actual team and packageset creation?
<rbasak> I'll take it
<rafaeldtinoco> cool. i can do the scripting
<rafaeldtinoco> and crontabing
<rafaeldtinoco> if needed (or should we wait applicants first ?)
<sil2100> #action rbasak to take care of the canonical-oem-metapackages packageset and owning team creation
<meetingology> ACTION: rbasak to take care of the canonical-oem-metapackages packageset and owning team creation
<sil2100> rbasak: guess it needs the TB, right?
<sil2100> (I always forget)
<rbasak> rafaeldtinoco: personally I'd wait until managing it manually becomes painful
<rbasak> But I have no objection if you want to run ahead with it
<rafaeldtinoco> manually it is
<rbasak> Yes - packageset creation will need the TB. We have a process for requesting that
<rafaeldtinoco> so we can all get used to it
<sil2100> I think we all have enough on our plates that it's best not to put additional scripting work ;)
<rafaeldtinoco> sil2100: yes!
<sil2100> Ok, I think we have this sorted out then
<sil2100> #subtopic slashd to add Yaru to the desktop set for focal
<sil2100> I don't think slashd is here with us today?
<sil2100> Does anyone know if that is done?
<ddstreet> looks like it's not done yet
<ddstreet> and slashd is out today
<sil2100> Ok, let's carry that one over then
<sil2100> Last action item is a duplicate, and we discussed it already
<sil2100> We have no applicants today, so let's move to AOB
<sil2100> #topic AOB
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<sil2100> Anything to discuss otherwise?
<sil2100> I take that as a no!
<sil2100> Ok, I guess we can finish
<sil2100> #topic Select a chair for the next meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | DMB meeting | Current topic: Select a chair for the next meeting
<sil2100> That would be Teward, but I guess he's not here today
<sil2100> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Aug 10 19:30:47 2020 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-08-10-19.01.moin.txt
<sil2100> Thanks everyone!
<rafaeldtinoco> sil2100: tku!
<ddstreet> thanks! o/
<sil2100> I'll update the Agenda now
<rafaeldtinoco> o/ everyone
<ItzSwirlz> have a gn/good day
<ItzSwirlz> o/
<ItzSwirlz> Don't let the thunderstorms kill yall
<teward> sil2100: nope not here because Hospital
<teward> appendicitis
<teward> they got the thing out but i am in recov until tomorrow
<teward> still 'alive' barely though
#ubuntu-meeting 2020-08-11
<cpaelzer> jamespage: ddstreet: sarnold: pre-ping for MIR meeting in a few minutes
<ddstreet> o/
<cpaelzer> #startmeeting Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Aug 11 14:30:50 2020 UTC.  The chair is cpaelzer. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic:
<cpaelzer> hi jamespage: ddstreet: sarnold:
<cpaelzer> we are a reduced team again with doko and didrocks being out this week
<cpaelzer> gladly I could convince seb128 to attend in case we need AA actions (and my precheck indicates we will)
<cpaelzer> welcome him
<cpaelzer> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items
<cpaelzer> we had one action to check if probert-network still doesn't show up in component mismatches
<cpaelzer> it does still seem wrong (is in universe, but is depended from main, not showing)
<cpaelzer> I have asked Odd_Bloke to file a bug and get in touch wit hthe archive admins about that oddity
<seb128> :-)
<cpaelzer> seems nothing we could do a lot about
<sarnold> good morning
<cpaelzer> #topic current component mismatches
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: current component mismatches
<cpaelzer> #link https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.svg
<cpaelzer> #link https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.svg
<cpaelzer> we have a bunch ready to promote today
<cpaelzer> and a puzzle :-)
<cpaelzer> let us go one by one
<cpaelzer> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-requests-toolbelt/+bug/1751093
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1751093 in python-requests-toolbelt (Ubuntu) "[MIR] python-requests-toolbelt" [Undecided,Fix released]
<cpaelzer> that is ready (from past review)
<cpaelzer> and now depended on again
<cpaelzer> openstack is still subscribed
<cpaelzer> so I gues we'd just want that to be re-promoted in groovy
<cpaelzer> jamespage: any objections to do that?
<cpaelzer> arr
<cpaelzer> just found out jamespage is out this week as well
<cpaelzer> but the case is rather clear
<cpaelzer> anyone else to object re-promoting that=
<cpaelzer> ?
<sarnold> wfm
<cpaelzer> seb128:  would you take this to promote it to groovy-main?
<seb128> sure
<cpaelzer> thanks
<cpaelzer> next case is actually a double
<cpaelzer> hwloc depends on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/s390-dasd/+bug/1522003
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1522003 in s390-dasd (Ubuntu) "[MIR] s390-dasd" [Undecided,Fix released]
<cpaelzer> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/s390-sysconfig-writer/+bug/1522002
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1522002 in s390-sysconfig-writer (Ubuntu) "[MIR] s390-sysconfig-writer" [Undecided,Fix released]
<cpaelzer> both were in main before
<cpaelzer> they are ready to be promoted
<cpaelzer> TBH I don't see why they even demoted in the first place
<cpaelzer> IMHO those should also be (re-)promoted
<cpaelzer> any objection to that?
<cpaelzer> I take that as a now and the case is rather clear again
<sarnold> wfm
<cpaelzer> seb128: those would be the next to for you - ok with that ?
<seb128> k
<cpaelzer> last item out of this category is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/khronos-opencl-clhpp/+bug/1636728
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1636728 in khronos-opencl-clhpp (Ubuntu) "[MIR] khronos-opencl-clhpp" [Undecided,Fix released]
<cpaelzer> here we need the desktop Team anyway - the package was in main , the MIR is ready - but the subscriber was unclear
<cpaelzer> "ubuntu-x" is subscribed
<cpaelzer> we were wondering if that is still an active team from canonicals POV (to provide support in main)
<cpaelzer> seb128: do you happen to know since "ubuntu-x" sounds so Desktop'ish?
<cpaelzer> this one https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat
<seb128> I don't think it's in the official list no
<cpaelzer> seb128: thanks
<cpaelzer> seb128: cuold you carry https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/khronos-opencl-clhpp/+bug/1636728 to the Desktop Team meeting then to sort out who should subsceribe now?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1636728 in khronos-opencl-clhpp (Ubuntu) "[MIR] khronos-opencl-clhpp" [Undecided,Fix released]
<cpaelzer> "subscribe"
<seb128> ack
<cpaelzer> the next in component mismatches is a massive tree of golang things
<cpaelzer> but not listing the root of the dependency
<cpaelzer> further to the right there is "gcc-compute-image-packages" which sounds suspicious to be related
<cpaelzer> does anyone know or has worked on that?
<seb128> the khronos package seems to be pulled in by ocl-icd which is owned by kernel so I would suggest kernel should look at that one
<cpaelzer> since doko isn't here let me ping xnox - as maybe is is around and knows about it ^^
<cpaelzer> seb128: agreed (we said and have seen the same last week) - but since the old owner was ubuntu-x it would be Dekstop to punt it over to kernel
<cpaelzer> maybe just get your and their manager connected
<cpaelzer> or do you prefer me to do the mailing
<cpaelzer> I can do it if you like
<seb128> k
<seb128> I can handle it
<cpaelzer> ok, thanks
<seb128> np!
<xnox> cpaelzer:  sorry, what are you asking me?
<cpaelzer> xnox: hi
<cpaelzer> xnox do you know about all the google/golang things in https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.svg ?
<cpaelzer> we were wondering if that is any foundation driven effort?
<xnox> cpaelzer:  i think it's on rbalint to file all the MIRs and subscribe either foundations or cpc/cloudware.
<cpaelzer> I beg your pardon - since doko isn't here to speak for foundations I asked you
<cpaelzer> thank you - that makes sense then
<cpaelzer> all other things in there are known cases and actively handled one or the other way
<cpaelzer> I'll take an action to sort with vorlon how to handle the subscription problem that doko brought up for the fonts package
<cpaelzer> #action - cpaelzer to ask Steve how to fastpath font packages without subscriptions
<meetingology> ACTION: - cpaelzer to ask Steve how to fastpath font packages without subscriptions
<cpaelzer> #topic New MIRs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: New MIRs
<cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=NEW&assignee_option=none&field.assignee=&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
<cpaelzer> up until a few minutes ago there was https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-jwcrypto/+bug/1869215
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1869215 in python-jwcrypto (Ubuntu) "[MIR] python-jwcrypto" [High,In progress]
<cpaelzer> but that will work out once jamespage is back
<cpaelzer> really new is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ipp-usb/+bug/1891157
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1891157 in ipp-usb (Ubuntu) "[MIR] ipp-usb" [High,New]
<cpaelzer> and that looks for a reviewer
<cpaelzer> I have to admit I didn't even get to process my assignments of last week :-/
<cpaelzer> does anyone have the breathing room to look at this (two packages actually)
<cpaelzer> sarnold: ddstreet: ^^ ?
<ddstreet> i haven't got to the one i took last week either
<sarnold> I've still not finished the previous pcakage I've accepted :( I should say no on this one
<cpaelzer> ok so we are all in the sma eboat
<cpaelzer> same boat
<cpaelzer> we will let it open for this week
<cpaelzer> butnext week we need to asign someone as the target is 20.10
<cpaelzer> maybe I can take a few hours off my +1 duty without being slapped too hard
<cpaelzer> we will see
<cpaelzer> #topic Incomplete bugs / questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Incomplete bugs / questions
<cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
<cpaelzer> nothing new here
<cpaelzer> #topic Any other business?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Any other business?
<cpaelzer> ok, that is it then
<cpaelzer> thanks everyone that isn't on PTO :-)
<cpaelzer> we see the expected end-of-cycle ramp up of activity here
<cpaelzer> see you all next week
<cpaelzer> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Aug 11 14:52:07 2020 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-08-11-14.30.moin.txt
<ddstreet> thanks! bye o/
<sarnold> thanks cpaelzer, all :)
<cpaelzer> and thanks seb128 for standing in for our missing AA members
<seb128>  yw!
<ItzSwirlz> o/
<ItzSwirlz> Is kernel meeting still planning to happen?
#ubuntu-meeting 2020-08-13
<ItzSwirlz> o/
<rbalint> o/
<slyon> o/
<ItzSwirlz> o/
<bdmurray> #startmeeting Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Aug 13 15:00:53 2020 UTC.  The chair is bdmurray. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic:
<bdmurray> #topic Lightning rounds
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Lightning rounds
<bdmurray> echo $(shuf -e vorlon bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity mwhudson juliank waveform slyon)
<bdmurray> doko rbalint slyon juliank vorlon xnox infinity mwhudson tdaitx waveform sil2100 bdmurray
<bdmurray> doko wins
<bdmurray> rbalint: are you ready?
<rbalint> * uploads via Debian: libcec 6.0.2-1, waylandpp 0.2.8-1 (fixes FTBFS on ppc64el), kodi 18.8+dfsg1-1 (sponsoring)
<rbalint> * vim FTBFS fix on riscv64
<rbalint> * set up now official git packaging repository for update-motd uploaded a bugfix
<rbalint> * preparing SRUs for glibc and next upload to groovy
<rbalint> * poking proposed packages
<rbalint> (done)
<doko> oops
<doko>  - short week, vacation day on Tuesday
<doko>  - wanted to attend the meeting from the hot pool on the rooftop, but it's raining cats and dogs
<doko>  - ported the ftbfs-report to python3
<doko>  - started test rebuilds for focal GCC and python SRU updates. no regressions for the updates, but delaying the uploads until Septemb
<doko> er
<doko>  - filed bug reports for focal fbbfs (main only)
<doko>  - supposed to do +1 maintenance, but doing stuff instead which I wanted to get done before the vacation
<doko> (done)
<xnox> slyon:
<slyon> - Published "Call for testing: iwd" on discourse
<slyon> - Fix ftbfs: netplan.io, procenv, sensible-utils, pexpect
<slyon>   * pexpect awaiting Debian review, bug #1891196
<slyon>   * sensible-utils in -proposed, bug #1891193
<slyon> - Kicking proposed-migration for sbuild/dpkg
<ubottu> bug 1891196 in sensible-utils (Ubuntu) "FTBFS because of porefs=noline,wrap is unrecognized" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1891196
<ubottu> bug 1891193 in pexpect (Ubuntu) "FTBFS with Sphinx >= 3.x" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1891193
<slyon> - prepared debdiff & test-runner for awscli/botocore/s3transfer SRUs
<slyon>   * needs review, bug #1867673, bug #1875485, bug #1880999
<slyon> === Netplan ===
<slyon> - Published "Share your Netplan configuration!" on AskUbuntu
<slyon> - Finished Wireguard PR#113, needs review
<slyon> - Discussions on "OVS cloud-init first book broken" issue, PR#157
<slyon> - Started implementing OVS settings tagging & cleanup
<slyon> (done)
<ubottu> bug 1867673 in awscli (Ubuntu Xenial) "[SRU] awscli not kept up to date" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1867673
<ubottu> bug 1875485 in python-botocore (Ubuntu Xenial) "[SRU] python-botocore out of date" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1875485
<ubottu> bug 1880999 in python-s3transfer (Ubuntu) "SRU: bump version to make compatible with upstream awscli requirements" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1880999
<juliank> It's me time!
<juliank> * more apt http method debugging and fixing
<juliank> * fixed grubzfs-testsuite
<juliank> * autopkgtest work:
<juliank>   - rebased
<juliank>   - brought lxd and cloud workers into sync
<juliank>   - work on migrating haveged -> rng-tools
<juliank> * starting new attempt at os-prober upgrade problem debugging/testing
<juliank> * closed LP: #1876737 as invalid following consultation with patch upstream
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1876737 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "GRUB refuses to boot a 32-bit kernel when in EFI mode" [Low,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1876737
<juliank> (done)
<bdmurray> vorlon:
<vorlon>  * proposed-migration: rolling a few packages back (nodejs) and forward (haskell*) to move the icu+ transition closer to finishing
<vorlon>  * dropped ocaml support from llvm-toolchain-10 on i386 to let ocaml stuff be migratable
<vorlon>  * NEW package reviews
<vorlon> (done)
<bdmurray> xnox:
<xnox> Better resolved integration & systemd migrated to release
<xnox> Rebootstrapped rustc for riscv64 in groovy
<xnox> Created groovy FTBFS spreadsheet and started to fix my own ones
<xnox> Uploaded one fix for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/plymouth/+bug/1880250
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1880250 in systemd (Ubuntu Groovy) "Ctrl-C message displayed without any actual disk check" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<xnox> Worked on fixing snapd preseeding in lxd containers (handed over to lxd team)
<xnox> Fixed https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/smc-tools/+bug/1884508
<ubottu> Error: Could not gather data from Launchpad for bug #1884508 (https://launchpad.net/bugs/1884508). The error has been logged
<xnox> reuploaded microcode-initrd after new reject, with fixes
<xnox> done
<bdmurray> tdaitx:
<tdaitx> * jck-11
<tdaitx>   - updated docs, compared test runs, investigated initial lxc setup
<tdaitx>   - reviewing and testing config options
<tdaitx> * following up on errors.u.c for openjdk-8
<tdaitx> * fixing ftbfs (pyparted, libzstd on the way)
<tdaitx> (done)
<bdmurray> waveform:
<waveform> * Catching up on e-mail after hols!
<waveform> * Investigated wifi firmware on core18/core20; update required for core18 (definitely for core18, probably for core20)
<waveform> * Attempted to reproduce boot cycle issue on core20 (unsuccessful so far)
<waveform> * More bt/wifi testing for appliances
<waveform> * Added patches for FTBFS for kbd (LP: #1891316)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1891316 in kbd (Ubuntu) "duplicate "progname" under gcc-10" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1891316
<waveform> * and open-iscsi, but that was bumped by a merge fixing it anyway (LP: #1891367)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1891367 in open-iscsi (Ubuntu) "duplicate vars under gcc-10" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1891367
<waveform> * Testing "new stuff"
<waveform> (done)
<bdmurray> sil2100:
<sil2100> - SRU reviews and releases
<sil2100> - DMB meeting
<sil2100> - Netplan code reviews
<sil2100> - Last week: 20.04.1
<sil2100> - Lots and lots of diverse work for 18.04.5 and 16.04.7
<sil2100> - Some +1 maintenance
<sil2100> - FTBFS fixes
<sil2100> - Implementing the constant delivery of gadget snaps
<sil2100> - Interviews
<sil2100> - Fun with appliance images and new appliances
<sil2100> (done)
<bdmurray> updated python-bson package in Error Tracker environment
<bdmurray> updated raspi imaging info for 20.04.1 LTS
<bdmurray> added skimage to the list of "big" packages for autopkgtest
<bdmurray> created release tracking discourse post for 18.04.5
<bdmurray> updated autopkgtest wiki documentation regarding workers and result.tar
<bdmurray> ran node-redis autopkgtests for bryce on arm64 canonistack unit
<bdmurray> investigation into upgrade failure in LP: #1886748
<bdmurray> point release work
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1886748 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Focal) "upgrade from 18.04 to 20.04 fails to calculate if libomp5 is installed" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1886748
<bdmurray> iso testing of Ubuntu Kylin desktop for 16.04.7
<bdmurray> â done
<bdmurray> Any questions on status?
<bdmurray> Oh I have one!
<bdmurray> vorlon: re nodejs I was testing some packages with a m1.large unit and they passed before the nodejs version was reverted. Should we still commit that big_packages?
<rbalint> slyon, good job on iwd!
<slyon> thanks! There is quite some feedback already
<rbalint> bdmurray, i think if the likelihood of passing grows enough with large instances it is worth committing
<vorlon> bdmurray: yes, since the new nodejs is coming back eventually
<vorlon> (hopefully soon)
<bdmurray> okay
<bdmurray> #topic Release incoming bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Release incoming bugs
<bdmurray> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-gg-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<bdmurray> bug 1876737 is new
<ubottu> bug 1876737 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "GRUB refuses to boot a 32-bit kernel when in EFI mode" [Low,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1876737
<bdmurray> Well, juliank seems to have taken care of that.
<vorlon> well that's easy enough, it's been marked invalid
<juliank> Yup
<vorlon> yeah
<vorlon> (and I agree :)
<bdmurray> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ff-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<bdmurray> some ftbfs bugs have eneded up here
<vorlon> curious
<bdmurray> doko you did another test rebuild?
<vorlon> were these failures present at release time?
<doko> bdmurray: did you *read* my summary?
<bdmurray> I was so focused on nodejs I must have missed it
<doko> how would you know? they succeeded *brefore* the release
<doko> there are clearly some ftbfs which were built using -proposed?
<vorlon> strace and xz-utils were on the last test rebuild at https://people.canonical.com/~doko/ftbfs-report/test-rebuild-20200327-focal-focal.html#main, pycurl and cryptsetup were not
<vorlon> vim was not
<bdmurray> How should we prioritize these compared to the groovy ftbfs?
<vorlon> they're lower priority
<vorlon> but I think we should card them anyway
<bdmurray> Okay, I'll do that later today.
<bdmurray> bug 1888033 - you set this to critical
<ubottu> bug 1888033 in Ubuntu " Check error with 20.04-desktop ISO" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1888033
<vorlon> you is apparently xnox
<bdmurray> you is always xnox
<vorlon> I is?
<rbalint> bdmurray, vorlon do we plan doing srus with the focal fixes?
<bdmurray> rbalint: for the ftbfs?
<rbalint> bdmurray, yes
<vorlon> rbalint: these changes are suitable for staging in -proposed and using block-proposed-focal tags, per current SRU policy
<vorlon> and this is fairly important so the security team doesn't have to chase build failures as part of doing a security update
<bdmurray> Does the security team incorporate changes in -proposed?
<xnox> vorlon:  bdmurray: i only respond to vous or You, not lowercase you.
<vorlon> they will at least have the opportunity to look there for solutions
<vorlon> Vy
<bdmurray> xnox: what about YOUâ½
<xnox> bdmurray:  stop shouting, i am right here
<bdmurray> vorlon: okay, but is it part of their process?
<xnox> bdmurray:  yes
<xnox> i can't remember what, but they did pick it up like that, from me for something
<bdmurray> okay, cool
<rbalint> vorlon, bdmurray  i do see the benefits, but compared to improving groovy i think it is so low in priority that it is not worth carding/fixing them in advance, just when an update is needed
<bdmurray> xnox: so about bug 1888033
<ubottu> bug 1888033 in Ubuntu " Check error with 20.04-desktop ISO" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1888033
<vorlon> rbalint: I'm on the fence about this; I have taken that position in the past, but here there are only 5 of them, I think it's worth putting them in the backlog
<vorlon> (but then, I may be culling the backlog again soon)
<vorlon> xnox: I don't agree with 'critical' here
<xnox> vorlon:  i will respond to the bug soon
<bdmurray> #topic Team proposed-migration report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Team proposed-migration report
<vorlon> [LINK] https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#foundations-bugs
<vorlon> well it looks better than last week
<vorlon> bdmurray: are you still on mpfr4 / python-gmpy2?
<bdmurray> There is a new upstream version of python-gmpy2 which needs an NMU upload to Debian.
<vorlon> but that doesn't block us from uploading it to Ubuntu in the meantime
<bdmurray> I'm not a DD so could use help here.
<vorlon> any DDs want to volunteer to NMU?
<bdmurray> see debian bug 965001
<ubottu> Debian bug 965001 in src:python-gmpy2 "strange version 2.1.0 beta4 fails tests with mpfr4 4.1.0" [Serious,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/965001
<doko> well, do the upload in groovy first, and see if it fixes the issue
<bdmurray> Okay
<vorlon> doko: are you still handling the lintian stuff?  I believe you were taking it because promotions were requixred
<doko> vorlon: yes, 2.89 just migrated. not sure what I can still do before my vacation
<xnox> huray
<vorlon> ah ok, so maybe this is all done
<vorlon> xnox: python-werkzeug?
<rbalint> lintian must be much better being a long test
<vorlon> ah you're asking for a removal
<vorlon> I'll follow up
<vorlon> gce-compute-image-packages: rbalint: is this still blocked on MIRs?
<xnox> vorlon:  needs removal. sadly.
<xnox> yeah.
<rbalint> vorlon, yes, i'm on it
<vorlon> ok
<vorlon> icu... still in progress, this should be all hands on deck for +1 maintenance...
<vorlon> which takes us down to openjdk-8 blocking gcups
<vorlon> cups
<vorlon> doko commented before that it's wrong for britney to have a custom trigger here
<vorlon> nevertheless, someone needs to fix something
<vorlon> tdaitx: can you take a look and figure out what's needed?
<tdaitx> vorlon: yeah, needs to be blacklisted
<vorlon> lapack seems to be new vs last week
<vorlon> waveform: would you like this one?
<waveform> vorlon, sure
<vorlon> libsereal-decoder-perl: maybe just needs a retest with new lintian?  I'll follow up
<rbalint> vorlon, i retried
<vorlon> rbalint: ok
<vorlon> rbalint: but I'll claim it nevertheless for followup :)
<rbalint> vorlon, :-)
<vorlon> python-future depends on sphinx which has autopkgtest regressions
<vorlon> slyon: would you care to take this one?
<slyon> vorlon: yes I will
<vorlon> (I'll retrigger the failing tests now)
<vorlon> glibc blocking audit... rbalint, any insight?
<rbalint> glibc test is broken, i file a hint
<vorlon> ok
<vorlon> systemd migrated
<vorlon> gmp just migrated
<vorlon> software-properties, ddstreet asked about it on IRC, it's an i386 entanglement; I'll take this
<vorlon> and then I think that's it for now
<ddstreet> vorlon re: software-properties, https://code.launchpad.net/~ddstreet/livecd-rootfs/+git/livecd-rootfs/+merge/389235
 * juliank brb
<vorlon> ddstreet: I'm not a fan of bypassing modules we have to abstract this in favor of direct url parsing
<vorlon> ddstreet: restoring binaries on i386 should be easy; I'll pursue that first
<vorlon> bdmurray: anyway, done
<bdmurray> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<bdmurray> alright, let's wrap it up
<bdmurray> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Aug 13 15:50:23 2020 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-08-13-15.00.moin.txt
<vorlon> thanks!
<sil2100> Oh, I'll be out on Monday if anything o/
<rbalint> o/
