#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-10-19
<paultag> persia, around?
<persia> I am.
<paultag> persia, I was going through http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/multidistrotools/ubuntustudio.html  <-- what tasks need to be done? Get the diffs for the packages upstream and try and sync?
<paultag> persia, Just want something to do on Wednesday, I have the day free
<paultag> ( our changes, if they'll apply, upstream )
<persia> If we have changes, look at how we can align source packages with Debian, and sync.
<persia> If we don't have changes, autosync ought do it.
<persia> If we're newer upstream than Debian, work to get newer upstream in debian-multimedia
<paultag> persia, such as something like Hydrogen ( as example ) -- hydrogen 	0.9.3-7 	0.9.4.1-1ubuntu3   ?
<paultag> try and get those 3 changes ( mostly bug fixes as I glance ) upstream?
<paultag> sorry, one bugfix
<persia> Something wonky there: Debian ought have 0.9.4.1-1+b1
<paultag> persia, pts showing    0.9.4.1-1   
 * persia uses rmadison, which is usually more up-to-date than anything else
<persia> the +b1 was binary rebuild only anwyawy, and hasn't happened for alpha, hppa, mips, mipsel, or sparc yet.
<paultag> humm
<persia> But if mdt is showing 0.9.3-7, maybe ask in #ubuntuwire
<paultag> persia, yeah, rmadison is giving me the same output
<paultag> persia, I'll check in the morning
<paultag> persia, give it time to settle overnight
<persia> Heh, OK.
<paultag> :)
<paultag> Alright, well, I'll get cracking on that soon. Cheers, thanks persia 
<TheMuso> 8/c
<rexbron> #blendercoders
<rexbron> oops :P
<jussi> ooh, its a rexbron!
<rexbron> hey jussi
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-10-20
<_paultag> persia: did I see you were appointed to the CC ?
<persia> paultag, You did.
<_paultag> persia: congrats :)
<persia> Thank you.
<stochastic> ScottL, you around?
<stochastic> hmm, probably sleeping.
<stochastic> Anyone awake?
<persia> I am.
<persia> stochastic, Are you someone who can update the release page on the website?
<stochastic> persia, that's exactly why I poked my head in here
<stochastic> persia, I've had my head out of this world for some time.  Are there any release notes kicking about?
<persia> I think there were some.  I'll see if I can find them.
<persia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/10.10release_notes
<stochastic> ouch, it looks like even the main page of the ubuntu studio wiki still have 10.04 as the latest release
<persia> Yeah.  ScottL doesn't seem to have some combination of permissions and procedure to be able to fix stuff.
<persia> Oh, the wiki!  Oh my.
<stochastic> but the wiki should be editable by anyone
<stochastic> I can update the webpage
<stochastic> (starting to right now)
<persia> Indeed.
 * persia fixes the wiki
<stochastic> persia, what date was 10.10 released?
<persia> ScottL, I'm leaving "recommended release" as 10.04 for a bit more: I suspect it needs some more time to mature (I may be wrong, but I usually like to wait a month or so)
<persia> stochastic, 10.10.10 10:10:10
<stochastic> of course
<stochastic> persia, ScottL, all should be updated now on the ubuntustudio.org website
<persia> Thanks a lot!
<stochastic> next time please just poke me with a personal e-mail if I forget on release day
<stochastic> I'd love to get back into more work here, but my two kitchen jobs are keeping me busy 14+ hours a day
<persia> Totally understood.  I think the better solution is to find a way to get you backup when you're swamped.
<persia> I hope ScottL and you can work that out over the next few months.
<stochastic> persia, agreed.  Though I did have time over thanksgiving weekend here (oct 10-12), I just expected the release to come at the end of the month like previous releases.
<stochastic> next time I'll check release dates a little earlier
<persia> Understandable :)  It's really a breakdown in communications.
<persia> We need to make sure the entire team is on the same page for releases, etc.
<stochastic> yep.
<stochastic> Anyways, it's off to bed for me.  Today is my Sunday, and a long week starts tomorrow.
<stochastic> I'll keep my head in here for a little bit though.
<persia> Good night.
<ScottL> wow, i don't thin i've ever seen the channel this full :)
<astraljava> Building a momentum here. :D
<falktx> hi there guys
<falktx> i just noticed that a lot of people are trying to make new audio distros
<falktx> (including me)
<falktx> but there's no shared work this way...
<falktx> this makes me sad
<falktx> there's a new distro called 'dream studio' - http://secondbedroomstudio.blogspot.com/
<falktx> also tango studio
<falktx> i want you guys to be honest with me
<falktx> What can I do right  *now* that will help get UbuntuStudio better?
<falktx> scott-work: ?
 * abogani is wondering if ScottL have a TODO list for Natty development...
<falktx> hey abogani
<falktx> abogani: do you plan to make realtime kernel for natty?
<abogani> falktx: Yes but not in Ubuntu official repos.
<falktx> abogani: yep, I wont count on that
<scott-work> hi falt
<scott-work> crap, he's gone again
<scott-work> i find it heartening to see the traffic on the debian-multimedia mailing list about SuperCollider, it's nice to see upstream working well with downstream and vice versa :)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-10-21
<falktx> hi abogani
<falktx> abogani: you there?
<abogani> falktx: yes
<falktx> abogani: i have a favour to ask you
<falktx> abogani: can you update the lucid lowlatency kernel on your ppa?
<falktx> it's the default kernel on my kxstudio distro
<abogani> falktx: As reported to all our Studio mailing-list lowlatency lucid is dropped.
<falktx> abogani: maybe just a last update?
<falktx> please..?
<abogani> falktx: No I can't. I have already delete all files. I would happy to help you but there is no way. Sorry
<falktx> ah, ok
<falktx> i'm not sure about using the realtime kernel as default
<abogani> falktx: Could you inform me when you use my package? So I avoid to delete these without alert you.
<abogani> falktx: .33 seems a lot stable, at me at least
<falktx> abogani: usually I copy your packages into my PPA, the version I now have is 2.6.32-24.42
<falktx> I guess I'll be back to generic
<abogani> falktx: Yes an other good choise.
<abogani> choice
<falktx> abogani: so the lowlatency kernel will be dropped for good?
<falktx> abogani: what about natty? will you make lowlatency for it or it's not decided yet?
<astraljava> falktx: More information regarding kernels can be found on: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RealTime
 * falktx reads
<falktx> ok
<falktx> hey I just found AutoStatic in IRC
<falktx> he's coming here
<falktx> hey AutoStatic
<AutoStatic> Hi
<falktx> me and AutoStatic were discussing about the PPA
<falktx> from what I understand, this is the official us dev team: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev
<falktx> and this is the PPA for it - https://launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/+archive/ppa
<falktx> to all devs here: What is the best choice for a new studio PPA:
<falktx> 1 - the official ubuntustudio-dev
<falktx> 2 - a new team
<falktx> ?
<abogani> What type of packages should go into that new PPA?
<astraljava> A new studio PPA? What for?
<AutoStatic> For Ubuntu Studio
<AutoStatic> atm there are multiple multimedia PPA's
<astraljava> I mean, what apps should go there, and why couldn't they go into the official repos?
<AutoStatic> philip5, falktx, tangostudio etc
<falktx> astraljava: for example wineasio and VSTs
<falktx> astraljava: also svn builds of ardour3.0, hydrogen, etc
<AutoStatic> Apps that are not in Debian testing or the official repo's
<falktx> AutoStatic: maybe we should split into 2 ppas, 1 stable and 1 testing
<AutoStatic> So not even necessarily svn builds
<AutoStatic> Yes, good idea
<astraljava> falktx: Okay. If Ubuntu Studio devs are supposed to offer support for them, it would make sense for them to be in ubuntustudio-dev PPA. And one PPA can offer several repositories.
<abogani> The best thing should be: Create a PPA into ubuntustudio. Place there all stable packages. Use the ubuntustudio-dev's PPA for development packages (like svn builds).
<abogani> IMHO obviously :-)
<falktx> seems good to me
<falktx> but afaik, everyone is allowed to be part of the ubuntustudio team
<astraljava> Yeah, the idea of providing support for such packages make me cringe a bit. :)
<astraljava> +s
<falktx> so maybe it could be better if the team is kinda not official
<AutoStatic> now orries I think astraljava
<AutoStatic> no worries I mean
<astraljava> Are there licensing issues why some of the packages couldn't go to official repos?
<falktx> AutoStatic: the way I currently build svn packages, they dont conflict with the stable ones
<falktx> AutoStatic: maybe they should go too into the stable ppa too, and leave the test ppa just for testing of new packages
<AutoStatic> I haven't build that much of those kind of packages
<falktx> astraljava: most packages are ok
<AutoStatic> I second that, i don't foresee any big support issues
<falktx> astraljava: but VSTs require non-free headers to compile
<astraljava> falktx: Gotcha.
<falktx> astraljava: my way of doing it is to compile them myself and only include the source in the package
<falktx> astraljava: I never touch the non-free headers at anytime in the PPA
<astraljava> Ok.
<falktx> astraljava: here's an example of restricted package - https://launchpad.net/~falk-t-j/+archive/lucid/+sourcepub/1343380/+listing-archive-extra
<AutoStatic> falktx: with a good set-up on your won machine one doesn't really need a test PPA I think
<falktx> astraljava: all source is included, but not the non-free header
<falktx> astraljava: the folder 'build' contains the binary I compiled
<falktx> astraljava: please check it and tell me if this should be ok
<falktx> AutoStatic: you too please
<falktx> AutoStatic: for testing I guess I could just use my own testing PPA
<AutoStatic> just a sec
<AutoStatic> Looks good to me
<falktx> this is the method I use for VSTs too
<falktx> I spoke to the launchpad guys about this too, they said it was ok
<AutoStatic> But isn't wieasio a lib? 
<AutoStatic> wineasio
<astraljava> falktx: I'm not an expert on these matters, but IMO that's fine.
<falktx> AutoStatic: yes, it goes to /usr/lib/wine
<falktx> AutoStatic: but it uses ASIO, non-free stuff from the Windows world...
<falktx> astraljava: thanks
<AutoStatic> Yes I know falktx, but I was hinting at the fact that it seems to be packaged as a single binary while it is actually a library
<AutoStatic> But then I'm not a packaging expert
<falktx> AutoStatic: ah, that
<AutoStatic> That will come when we start packaging for Natty
<AutoStatic> ;)
<falktx> AutoStatic: everyone was using the name 'wineasio' for the package, so I just continue the tradition
<falktx> btw, I also have an external repo for really non-free stuff (closed source apps), these I know can't be on launchpad
<AutoStatic> I don't mean the package name but apparently it's created with dh_make -s instead of dh_make -l
<AutoStatic> Nah, letÅ not go into details
<AutoStatic> It works :)
<falktx> AutoStatic: what is the diff between '-s' and '-l' ?
<AutoStatic> -s = single binary and -l = library
<AutoStatic> I think package managers rely on this too
<AutoStatic> Synaptic - Sections
<AutoStatic> wineasio is now in sound while it shoudl be in libraries
<AutoStatic> I think
<falktx> hm... not sure
<falktx> anyway, it's not a big issue
<AutoStatic> Nope
<AutoStatic> That kind of stuff is debatable
<falktx> AutoStatic: when we make a PPA, you can easily fix it if you want
<AutoStatic> Yes, but we'll see
<falktx> so how should we name the team?
<AutoStatic> It's still all a bit vague
<AutoStatic> Ok, gotta go
<scott-work> i realize that autostatic and falktx are not here but i wanted to add my opinion to this as well
<scott-work> i would like to try to avoid implying that the ubuntu studio developer team would be responsible for maintaining or responsible for any packages in falktx/autostatic's group PPA
<scott-work> perhaps calling the team "Ubuntu Studio Packaging Team" with a clear explanation that this is not part of the official Ubuntu Studio Dev team
<scott-work> also mentioning that the purpose of the team is to package applications that cannot be in the official repositories due to licensing or too experimental as well
<scott-work> hopefully falktx and autostatic can also focus on getting packages into the repos when possible, rather than take the quick satisfaction of putting everything into a PPA
<scott-work> we will get much longer benefits if packages that *can* go into the repos actually see the work to *get* them into the repos
<scott-work> preferrably into debian first though ;)
<astraljava>                  modules see ya
<astraljava> [20:33] < clave> hello?
<astraljava> sorry
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-10-22
<scott-work> pesia: is it too late for the ubuntu studio blueprint Brian had made?
<persia> No.  Do you need it discussed at UDS?
<persia> (and which blueprint?)
<scott-work> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/multimedia-platform-n-pro-audio-secured
<scott-work> persia: i don't know if it *needs* to be discussed at UDS
<persia> Oh, it probably ought be discussed.  The "Brian" confused me.
<persia> Anyway, seems to be scheduled for UDS.
<persia> You probably want to push for the specification to be written :)
<persia> And you probably want to try to make the session, if you can (remotely, so IRC+audio stream).
<scott-work> persia: sorry for the late reply, work it keeping me busy lately
<scott-work> i am woefully inexperience with blueprints, UDS's, and specifications
<scott-work> who would nominally work up the specification?
<scott-work> are there examples that might be used?
<scott-work> where can i find out when this is scheduled so I know how much time is left?
<persia> There are three people associated with each blueprint: an Approver, a Drafter, and an Assignee..
<persia> The Approver is responsible for determining when a blueprint is Approved: this switches the responsible person from the Drafter to the Assignee.
<persia> The typical workflow is that some Registrant files the blueprint, the Drafter writes up a Specification (see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SpecTemplate ), the Approver approves it, and the Assignee coordinates the implementation.
<persia> Blueprints may be scheduled for Sprints.  UDS is a Sprint.  You can see UDS schedules at summit.ubuntu.com
<scott-work> persia: i found that it is scheduled for Tuesday
<scott-work> i also found the ubuntu studio specification: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntustudio
<scott-work> i can use that as an example
<persia> heh, indeed.
<scott-work> normally i would presume that I would be the "approver"?
<persia> For stuff that would significantly change how Ubuntu Studio behaves, I'd hope so, or at least that you implicitly trust the approver.
<scott-work> but i suggest that i might also be involved in the drafting as well
<scott-work> it looks like daniel and luke are subscribed as well to the blueprint
<scott-work> and assuming that they both will be at UDS-N then i feel relieve as this probably will not turn out to be completely useless without intervention
<persia> The Drafter is responsible for coordinating drafting, and usually does the first draft.  The Specification is intended to be the result of collaboration.
<scott-work> persia: i'll take some time from work this afternoon, sequester myself in an unused meeting room with white board, and work something up for a draft
<scott-work> hopefully, i can convince others to look over it and improve it over the weekend
<scott-work> persia: if there are any key bullet point items you would like to see addressed i would greatly appreciate those
 * scott-work has so much going around in his head currently that i can't even begin to formulate a direction or specific concerns currently
<persia> Main thing I'd like offthe top of my head is no-thought-required pulse/jack integration
<scott-work> that is the only thing that i thought of previously and feared i was missing many other ideas LOL
<persia> But I'm planning to attend the session and watch the implementation, and will probably make lots of points (some completely wrongheaded) along the way.
<scott-work> but my understanding was that it would take further tinkering by pottering/upstream in pulse audio to properly integrate them
<persia> I'm a little uncomfortable with autostart-jack-when-detect-audio-interface-on-the-firewire-network
<persia> But that needs more discussion, more than anything else.
<scott-work> i hope that i am incorrect and that we have the capacity to further the integration fully
<persia> Sure, needs some upstream tinkering, but diwic might be happy to do some of that.
<scott-work> who is diwic?
<persia> https://launchpad.net/~diwic (the Registrant for the spec)
<scott-work> Oh
 * scott-work presents an embarassed grin for all to see
<scott-work> for some reason i thought "brian" had create the blueprint
<persia> Hence my 'The "Brian" confused me' at 13:27 :)
<scott-work> yes, i realize that now, at the time it confuses me :P
<scott-work> s/confuses/confused
<scott-work> my larger concern was that the blueprint wasn't focused and my lack of attention would leave the work at the sprint unfocused and therefore not as productive as it could be
<persia> UDS isn't a hackfest: it's just talk.
<persia> Having a focused agenda for a spec helps, but unfocused ones happen sometimes, and sometimes end up with good results.
<persia> Really depends on the subject and who is present.
<persia> My main concern is that the work that diwic clearly wants to do oughtn't adversely affect Ubuntu Studio.
<scott-work> heh, my ignorance shines again :P
<scott-work> well, that makes me feel better then :)
<scott-work> i'll still take some time later today and work on it a little then
<astraljava> I'm beginning to like PPAs less and less as days go by. People have genuine trouble interpreting the nature of them vs. official repositories.
<persia> I liked PPAs for about 3 months, when they were only available to members of ~ubuntu-dev and didn't actually protect against shooting yourself in the foot (wrong versions were OK, etc.)
<persia> Now that they are functional third-party release archives, I have the same feeling about them as I have for e.g. getdeb.
<persia> (the main bit being: "Why not work as *part* of Ubuntu?")
<astraljava> Yeah. It's bad enough with all different flavours and derivatives and what have you, but now it feels like people are separating _inside_ ubuntu.
<persia> I tend to think of flavours as an opportunity to collaborate.
<persia> But I dislike most derivatives (the exceptions being Sabily, Ichthux, and gNewSense: all because they have very good reasons to be out-of-archive, and otherwise play well).
<persia> And I just don't see the point of folks who have out-of-archive repos that aren't also Ubuntu developers.
<persia> Things like the various browser every-browser-release-every-Ubuntu-release-automatic-backports repos make some sense.
<persia> As do some of the test-this-weird-feature-before-I-upload ones.
<persia> But the vast majority just seem to be invitations to *not* contribute to Ubuntu.
<astraljava> I hear ya.
<TheMuso> I agree with the above re PPAs. For me, they are only useful for testing/provide daily builds from upstrea for testing. In the Vinux project, we use PPAs because some changes that are made are not yet archive worthy, but hopefully will eventually be.
<persia> What is Vinux?
<TheMuso> persia: Its an ubuntu derivative focusing on accessibility. It was started by someone else in the community, but I am now using it as a testing ground for new accessibility integration work, so once its ready in vinux, we can then move it to Ubuntu proper.
<TheMuso> ...Unfortunately some of the things the community have done with that project are aweful, aweful, aweful hacks.
<persia> heh.  It's so sadly that way for derivatives sometimes.
<persia> makes me like flavours even more every day.
<TheMuso> Yeah, with time though, i intend to fix those hacks.
<persia> But it might be worth getting the Vinux folk in touch with the LP folk: there's some work ongoing to make first-class derivatives in certain cases, which should ease merging (in-LP MoM equivalent stuff).
<TheMuso> Hrm ok, the vinux folk currently use remastersys/whatever else out there to remaster an existing live CD.
<TheMuso> SO I wonder in what way LP and official derivitives will solve image creation, if at all.
<persia> Won't do a thing for image creation.
<TheMuso> Right.
<TheMuso> I suspected as much.
<persia> Will provide for per-package bug tracking, and remix/derivative distinctions, and archive concentrations, etc.
<persia> Depends on how much is in the PPA: getting it out of PPA and into the "Vimux Repository" has brand value, if nothing else.
<persia> (course, all this is *well* off-topic here :) )
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-10-23
<TheMuso> yep
<astraljava> Sheesh... some people and their kids...
<jussi> astraljava: ?
<astraljava> Just can't handle stupid people who take one or two features changed from the previous release, and pass judgement right away.
<ScottL> astraljava, do you have an example?
<ScottL> or a link, rather?
<astraljava> Nah, just following up some discussion on various channels.
<ScottL> ah, so not necessarily studio specific then :)
<astraljava> Not all, but some.
<astraljava> Take a look at the backscroll on #us.
<ScottL> ah yes, astraljava, i take it you mean the discussion on the -rt kernel :(
<ScottL> it is interesting to see a sense of entitlement from someone you receives a free product and doesn't contribute to it
<astraljava> ScottL: It is unbelievable at times.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-10-17
<fr-z> pantone palettes i mean
<fr-z> wc
<scott-work> oh, fr-z is gone already
<knome> hey scott-work 
<scott-work> hi knome 
<scott-work> how are you today?
<knome> fine!
<knome> kind of inspirated to work on something, but i have a few things i should do before i can get to US stuff :)
<scott-work> that sounds good :)
<scott-work> i know holstein is quite keen to get the website stuff moving again...and more importantly, finished ;)
<scott-work> knome: are you in the running for xubuntu project lead?
<scott-work> someone mentioned that
<knome> scott-work, yup, i am
<scott-work> oh, that's exciting, i may need to keep up more closely with the xubuntu mailing list
<knome> heh, i think so ;)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-10-18
<fr-z> hi guys
<scott-work> sorry fr-z , webchat.freenode.net dropped me (i'm doing irc in the browser)
<fr-z> np scott
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-10-19
<ScottL> hello again, got my laptop working :)
 * abogani waves all
<knome> ScottL, :)
<falktx> ScottL: ping
<ScottL> hi abogani 
<ScottL> hi knome 
<ScottL> hi falktx 
<falktx> err, now I'm gonna be out to lunch :(
<ScottL> that's okay, i'm on my way to work right now, i'll be there in about thirty minutes :)
 * knome is mostly afk today
<scott-work> knome: i will add my recommendation tonight, sorry for the delay
<scott-work> oh, knome, i really like the greybird theme, if ubuntu studio wanted to use a similar but darker them is there one you would recommend?
<scott-work> abogani: it has been suggested that the -generic kernel might rival the -lowlatency kernel for performance within a year, can you offer an opinion on this statement?
<holstein> i hope by 14.04 it will be a non-issue
<holstein> the kernel thing^^
<knome> scott-work, thanks! re: dark greybird, i don't really know the dark themes well
<scott-work> knome: that's cool, i really like greybird, it is very simplistic and easthetically pleasing, it "gets out of the way" and doesn't confuse users in my opinion
<scott-work> i should also add that those are compliments ;)
<knome> hehe
<knome> it's mostly done by ochosi though ;)
<knome> but more seriously, maybe a theme like greybird, but dark, could be possible for pangolin, or p+1
<holstein> knome: i have a question... what privs do you have to the xubuntu stuff?
<knome> holstein, what xubuntu stuff?
<holstein> the repos and the site maintanance?
<holstein> what im wondering is, how to get access to some of our infrastructure
<holstein> get that access to ScottL scott-work 
<holstein> knome: and/or you for that matter
<knome> holstein, we push to the launchpad repo, which is owned by xubuntu-website team, and the IS pull from there to production
<knome> holstein, so i just need push rights to the self-created repository in LP
<holstein> knome: lets say several of those words mean something to me... is there anything i can do to help facilitate that?
<knome> holstein, do you have a website team for ubuntu studio in launchpad?
<knome> if not, either create one, OR
<knome> add me to the ubuntu studio team,
<holstein> knome: i think all of that is do-able
<knome> i think a us-website team would be a better idea
<knome> because when the site is in staging/production
<holstein> knome: im about to run, but maybe i catch you and scott-work ScottL around idle, and we can hash that out a bit
<knome> people in that group have admin access to the WP installation
<holstein> knome: thanks for your help :)
<knome> np
<scott-work> right, then sounds like we verify we don't have a website team and create one if not
<knome> mm-hmm
<knome> that's how xubuntu has it :)
<shnatsel> scott-work: oh, hi!
<shnatsel> scott-work: I've just replied to your email
<scott-work> shnatsel: cool :)
<scott-work> thanks for responding!
<scott-work> but yeah, it's cranking up again, and me and holstein and hella motivated to make things happen this cycle ;)
<scott-work> can i add your google doc link to the blueprint, shnatsel ?
<shnatsel> scott-work: it's already there
<scott-work> http://goo.gl/WW1Y8?
<scott-work> ah, i see it now :)
<scott-work> i might be able to hook you up on getting your packages into debian
<scott-work> shnatsel: ^^^
 * shnatsel looks up hooking up in a dictionary
<knome> scott-work, hmm. i think xubuntu could also do with a package-selector install-time, can we collaborate on that?
<shnatsel> knome: would be AWESOME
<shnatsel> knome: but, are you sure you need that? I'm pretty sure that NOT having one is a huge win for e.g. usual Ubuntu
<scott-work> shnatsel: i think that i can assist you in getting the packages into debian, i forget you are not a native english speaker, russian i believe?
<knome> i don't think how much we can contribute to that really
<knome> shnatsel, maybe for something like "install the lightest system" or "install with firefox+thunderbird"
<scott-work> i am always humbled how well people who do not live in the us can speak english and the majority of americans can't even speak english properly
<knome> shnatsel, we probably don't want individual package selection, but something like sets of apps
<shnatsel> scott-work: yeah, Russian, but I'm learning English and I'll get my English translator grad in a year, so the more real-life expressions I know, the better :)
<scott-work> knome:   re: collaboration;  absolutely!
<scott-work> shnatsel: wow, that is cool!  is there big money in translation?
<knome> :)
<shnatsel> scott-work: nope. Very little money in translation, unless it's synchronous interpretation, but I like coding more
<shnatsel> knome: I hope by the time of 12.04 you won't have to pull in Thunderbird - Postler will get much faster and lighter
<shnatsel> (but that's just me)
<knome> heh, i just prefer TB over postler, at least for now
<shnatsel> yeah, right now Postler sucks IMHO
<scott-work> knome: i am unfamiliar with team heirarchies in launchpad, should a website team be create under ~ubuntustudio or ~ubuntustudio-dev?
<knome> scott-work, -dev
<knome> scott-work, like website team is a subteam of developers inside LP too
<scott-work> good, that parallels my thought too
<knome> err, s/inside/outside/ :P
<scott-work> shnatsel: in the upcoming weeks i will start looking at the edubuntu and xubuntu seeds then
<shnatsel> scott-work: great! If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask me or appropriate teams
<shnatsel> :)
<scott-work> persia: i am persuing getting permission to push bzr updates to the repositories, if you have suggestions about how i do this or want to discuss creating a ubuntu studio team this would be a good time ;)
<scott-work> TheMuso: if you have any suggestions on getting upload permission i would appreciate it as well
<holstein> scott-work: i have an email out to jono as well with a similar question
<scott-work> holstein: this is a pertinent wiki page:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers#Ubuntu_Developers_.28from_delegated_teams.29
<scott-work> i'm just unsure if i should apply for 'delegated team' or 'per package'
<scott-work> if clarification isn't forthcoming relatively soon, then i will probably apply in more than one method to make sure it happens
<shnatsel> do we have an UbuntuStudio Oneiric release out?
<shnatsel> My friend doesn't seem to be able to find it
<shnatsel> though I sent him a link to http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/releases/oneiric/release/
<knome> scott-work, https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-website
<knome> scott-work, xubuntu-dev seems to be SUBTEAM of xubuntu-artwork
<knome> scott-work, so i think it should also be a subteam of xubuntu-website too
<micahg> scott-work: I can discuss here with you as well about membership :)
<micahg> just maybe not today (and it's too late to be on Monday's agenda anyways), how about Sunday sometime?
<scott-work> sorry, micahg i just now saw this
<scott-work> micahg: i will be at your convenience to discuss memebership :)
<micahg> scott-work: ok, Sunday some time should work
<scott-work> micahg: may i ask your timezone, this might make a difference for when "sunday" actually is for me ;)
<micahg> scott-work: CDT ATM
<micahg> so, the same :)
<scott-work> excellent
<knome> hrmpfh
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-10-20
<scott-work> holstein:  i mentioned that i had received access to the website but i didn't think it worked
<scott-work> i tried again last night and it still didn't work, so i email chris jones back about it
<scott-work> i was resigned to having to get skaet and agraner involved and wait four months before i got another reply
<scott-work> _this morning_ i get a new email from chris :)
<scott-work> when i get home i will run it through pgp and see what it says ;)
<scott-work> hopefully this means that i can update the website tonight then
<scott-work> i will check to see if i can grant others access to the website, if not then i will file another ticket to get this privilege
<scott-work> knome:  i added my recommendation to your wiki page :)  good luck, sir!
<holstein> scott-work: thats great news :)
<holstein> even if it still doesnt work yet, we have eyes on it, and thats good
<holstein> i think now is the time to get that going on
<holstein> not that the devs are ever really idle, but right now in the cycle is probably the best time to catch folks somewhat idle
<scott-work> i think you are correct :)
<holstein> hopefully, all of this site stuff can be knocked out before the 12.04 craze starts
<scott-work> holstein: so what do you consider as the absolute minimum to include in the new website?
<holstein> scott-work: i think as long as its wordpress-like, and we can edit it easily, i say, just filling in what is there on that template is great
<holstein> linking to the wikis
<holstein> and the forums
<holstein> and adding news as-needed
<holstein> something that is simple and clean and can stand the test of time
<scott-work> my thoughts were:
<scott-work> 1. news and release announcements
<scott-work> 2. link to images
<scott-work> 3. link to help.u.c
<scott-work> 4. link to "contribute to studio" on wiki.u.c
<scott-work> i think that's the bare minimum for this
<holstein> works for me
<scott-work> i think when the website is staged we should create or populate these, if we have not done already
<holstein> yup
<holstein> i really think its nearly done
<scott-work> although we will need to differentiate with knome when we can create pages and/or populate them
<holstein> i think we just need to 'pull the trigger' on something
<holstein> i *really* like what knome has
<scott-work> i agree on both accounts
<knome> scott-work, thanks!
<scott-work> knome: you are welcome :)
<knome> let me create you accounts for the wordpress installation i have now
<knome> please remember the post style is not finished yet
<knome> meaning, stuff you add to posts might not look good, and images are not aligned even if you set them to right-aligned in admin
<knome> scott-work, scottalavender @ google's mail ?
<scott-work> knome: that is correct
<knome> now if i could only remember my own password
<scott-work> lol
<knome> you got email
<knome> holstein, you too
<scott-work> knome, outstanding!  thank you so much :)
<knome> np
<knome> if you need something (something looks particularly ugly, or you want to test how something would look in production), just ping me
<knome> i'll add the alignment stuff in in a few minutes
<knome> if you need/want to add plugins, feel free to (just send me an email after if you left something enabled)
<knome> done
<scott-work> cool :)  i will defintely look at this evening after work, thank you again
<knome> np
<knome> i'll try to get some work done on the site later today or tomorrow too, so we're a bit closer to being ready for publishing too
<scott-work> holstein:  make sure you check your spam folder if you don't see the email ;)
<scott-work> knome:  how much should we do in this current website before the staging on canonical severs?
<scott-work> are we just playing with it to get the feel of it to make sure things format well?
<scott-work> or will we be able to transfer the site and the sql database to the staging area and finally to the final site?
<knome> scott-work, transfering what you build to this site is not too hard, so you can do pretty polished things there :)
<scott-work> doh!  i see charlie-tca is also going for xubuntu project lead, i feel kinda bad now that i added a recommendation to knome's wiki page but didn't do anything for charlie
<knome> scott-work, nobody said you can't cheer for both :)
<knome> scott-work, also, the information on the nominees was released today
<scott-work> oh!
<knome> so, kind of, you couldn't know
<scott-work> yeah, i'm going with that ;)
<knome> heh
<scott-work> but charlie did a LOT of testing for us when we were down and out so i might say something nice for him as well, i hope you don't mind
<knome> heh, feel free to
<knome> i think charlie is doing wonderful job on testing and QA, too
<knome> i'm no completely sure where charlie want's the support to
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CharlieKravetz/XubuntuProjectLeadNomination is last edited about a year ago...
<knome> ScottL, holstein: check your inbox for email from rt@ubuntu.com ;))
<knome> off for today, so i'll have some energy left for tomorrow too
<knome> see you!
<ScottL> knome, hmmm, i don't see anything special or from rt@ubuntu.com :(
<ScottL> knome, good news however, i did manage to log into the website
<ScottL>  
<ScottL> in other news, the email chris jones sent is encrypted with someone else's key :|   this is like a bad dream
<ScottL> i don't think i'll ever get into the existing website to update the release notes/links
<ScottL> holstein, ^^^
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-10-21
<holstein> knome ScottL D00Ds
<holstein> nice work knome 
<holstein> i checked, im in :)
<knome> ScottL, hmm, weird, i added you to cc though...
<knome> well, i forwarded you both what i got...
<ScottL> oustanding knome! 
<knome> :)
<scott-work> i've never made a team in launchpad, i hope it's not going to be that invovled :/
<jussi> scott-work: its like 3 minutes work
<scott-work> jussi: i meant more like doing it correctly ;)
<scott-work> i've got the launchpad help page up already for creating teams, i just want to make sure i get it under the -dev in the correct heirarchy (sp?)
<scott-work> i expect to do get it done today though, i'll thread it into my work cycles today
<jussi> scott-work: most things can be changed, just make sure you get the name right :)
<scott-work> jussi: : gotcha ;)
<jussi> scott-work: I mean the name LP uses, Im pretty sure everything else can be changed...
<scott-work> jussi: i was going to evaluate what xubuntu did and moderate to fit
<jussi> scott-work: sounds sane
<scott-work> jussi: gknome was suggesting that ubuntustudio-website-team (or whatever the name will be) should be under ubuntustudio-dev team, does that seem sane?  i should think so
<knome> wut?
<knome> :)
<knome> i got the highlight btw
<knome> if you were trying to avoid that
<scott-work> knome: oh, lol, i did mispell your name, although it wasn't intentional
<scott-work> gnome + knome = gknome ?
<knome> hah
<knome> knome = gnome + kde? :P
<scott-work> i admit that i really do not fully comprehend the team structures at this point, at times it seems backwards that what i would expect
<scott-work> but in looking at the xubuntu teams, it would seem that i should make a website project and a website team for which the team is the driver of the project
<scott-work> although i cannot find any direct connection (i.e. this team is a subteam of that team) between xubuntu or xubuntu-dev to the website team
<knome> there isn't any direct connect between the two teams. i think there should be, like with xubuntu-artwork
<knome> but i'm not sure.
<scott-work> the last thing i can think of at the moment is who would "own" the code then?  ubuntustudio-dev or ubuntustudio-website-team?
<scott-work> or the ubuntustudio-website project?
<scott-work> i think i might ask these question in the launchpad channel
<knome> scott-work, the website-team would be the owner od the website-product that contains the code
<scott-work> so i tried the decrypting the message chris jones sent to me last night for the current website access
<scott-work> i can't, it's encrypted with a different key apparently :/
<scott-work> so, back to email tag
<scott-work> knome: is there a particular oder i should make the team and project?  does one need to precede the other?  i'm sorry that i keep bothering you with this questions, i tend to not like to do something unfamiliar without having a basic understanding of the process or what to expect
<scott-work> i'll be forthcoming as well, i would really like to reorganize the entire ubuntu studio project/team structure because it seems rather ad hoc and without logical organization to me, but not this cycle ;)
<scott-work> knome: ubuntustudio-website team team created and invite sent to you
<scott-work> holstein: you need a launchpad account ;)   i can't invite you
<scott-work> holstein: nevermind, i remembered your account name
<scott-work> website team and project created
<knome> scott-work, team first yeah ;)
<knome> scott-work, well, it's easier to attach the project that way :)
<knome> bbl->
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-10-22
<ScottL> rexbron_, did you see my email about ubuntustudio-nightly?
<acmeinc> @holstein, this is Tim from the list.  You suggested I am around to freenode, here I am.
<stochastic> hey everyone
<ScottL> hi stochastic !
 * ScottL is going to work now on saturday (and probably will be on sunday)
<knome> awwh :)
<scott-work> TheMuso: i have made a blueprint for getting the -lowlatency kernel in the repos for precise-12.04
<scott-work> is there any point to suggesting it for the sprint at uds-p if it depends on a decision at uds-p on the kernel version?
<scott-work> good morning (or afternoon) falktx  :)
<falktx> hey there
<scott-work> falktx: would you like to do some more work on the lightdm theme?
<scott-work> i'm not sure what xubuntu will be doing, but the ubuntu lightdm theme looks really nice and i want to steal it and make it better ;)
<falktx> scott-work: depends on the 'when'
<falktx> the folling 2 weeks are going to be crazy for me
<scott-work> falktx: would several weeks by acceptable?
<falktx> scott-work: yes, totally
<falktx> I'm finally about to release Cadence
<scott-work> falktx: i don't think the tool chain is even supposed to be pushed until after uds
<scott-work> falktx: wow!  congratulations!
<falktx> scott-work: when is it UDS btw?
<scott-work> first week of november
 * scott-work is checking calander for tool chain
<scott-work> woah, i was really off on the tool chain, apparently it was scheduled for oct 20th
<scott-work> falktx: but several weeks from now is more than fine, i think we really need to make sure this is behind us by alpha1 which is dec 1st
<falktx> yes, sure thing
<scott-work> oustanding!
<falktx> all apps seem to be working now, perfect for an alpha release
<falktx> I do of course expect bugs
<scott-work> cool, that is very exciting falktx 
<scott-work> i really admire the way you create these apps :)
<scott-work> hey falktx, i just thought of something
<scott-work> let me explain the backstory for a few lines then i'll ask the question
<falktx> k
<scott-work> ubuntu studio is planning on moving towards a live dvd this cycle, but also include a process to allow users to select and install components during installing from a gui
<scott-work> edubuntu does this...hold on a sec
<scott-work> you can see this in the right image on the first line, here:  http://edubuntu.org/documentation/11.04/installation-guide#Edubuntu_Options_and_Partitioning_
<scott-work> this would be similar to tasksel that we currently use
<scott-work> however, it has been my thought for a while since starting the work flows that it would be nice to be able to manage these things similarly but after installation
<scott-work> and my thought would be to use ubuntustudio-controls to allow users to simply add or remove work flows (i.e. their associated applications)
<scott-work> use case example:  i've already installed ubuntu studio and i didn't choose the 'podcast' component (or task) but now i want to do so
<scott-work> i pick ubuntustudio-controsl (or whatever the app name ends up) and look at the 'work flows' tab and pick the radio button for 'podcast' and pick the 'install' button...viola, it grabs all the associated apps and installs them if not already on the computer
<scott-work> similarly, i can remove a 'work flow' by unselected and hitting...hmmmm, i guess an 'install' button wasn't a good choice before, perhaps an 'apply' button...hitting the 'apply' button
<scott-work> falktx: does this make sense, do you think this may be something you could assist with next year?
<falktx> scott-work: yes, it makes perfect sense
<falktx> scott-work: does it matter if this is made in us-controls or I just add it to my Cadence app?
<scott-work> falktx: oh good, i've been thinking about these things for so long that i don't always express or explain it well :P
<scott-work> falktx: re: cadence, is cadence going to be in the repos so we can ship it?
<falktx> since it's pretty much near first release, I think it has more than time to hit debian
<scott-work> falktx, then i think that seems like a viable vector then :)
<falktx> yep
<scott-work> falktx: i should point that currently we haven't even looked at the edubuntu stuff or considered how our seeds might change
<falktx> scott-work: btw, I have made the US 11.10 live ISO
<falktx> still uploading though, and it looks like it's gonna take a while
<scott-work> i'm not sure this part will happen before a month or two (i need to talk to shnatsel about this, but we may get the live dvd part first, then move to user install selection)
<scott-work> falktx: eh, did you fix the lightdm and icons for that?  i don't think your changes made it past the bzr branch from what i've seen
<scott-work> but i'm still curious to play with it and see how the performance compares
<falktx> I forced the lightdm theme install
<falktx> but settings are still not set by default
<falktx> it is done
<falktx> http://sourceforge.net/projects/kxstudio/files/Live/UbuntuStudio-KR_11.10_32bit.iso/download
<knome> hmm?
<falktx> UbuntuStudio 11.10 Live DVD - KXStudio Remix
<knome> what is kxstudio?
<falktx> knome: http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/
<knome> aha
<rlameiro> hey
<falktx> rlameiro: hey
<falktx> rlameiro: did you got my message?
<rlameiro> falktx, axeling it
<rlameiro> falktx, yeap
<rlameiro> but dude, Lac is on the USA
<rlameiro> Ii dont have money to go to USA
<falktx> me too
<falktx> sadly
<falktx> rlameiro: do you think they will sponser the presentators?
<rlameiro> dunno
<rlameiro> maybe
<rlameiro> you could do one
<rlameiro> I dont have nothing to present :D
<rlameiro> falktx, do you know of any problem of jack and Firewire on natty?
<falktx> I don't use firewire
<rlameiro> I know
<falktx> rlameiro: I actually have something very important to present
<rlameiro> I cant connect it
<falktx> the whole Cadence tools
<rlameiro> Cadence?
<rlameiro> yeap
<falktx> let me show an example
<rlameiro> plus your new plugin project
<falktx> http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/screenshots/carla.png
<falktx> yep, Carla that is
<rlameiro> dude i am now on kxstudio/ubuntustudio/xubuntu :D
<rlameiro> I am using them
<falktx> ah, ok
<rlameiro> far more eficient than KDE
<rlameiro> sorry
<falktx> kxstudio != kDE
<falktx> rlameiro: you haven't seen carla-control then
<falktx> hehe, I really need a camera to show this to people
<rlameiro> falktx, I was talking about http://distrho.sourceforge.net/
<falktx> rlameiro: oh, that is nothing that big
<falktx> I have other stuff to show, much cooler than that
<falktx> but new plugins are always nice, yes
<rlameiro> i think i will try today the new kxstudio
<rlameiro> if it doesnt work with firewire
<rlameiro> I will go again to US 10.04
<falktx> rlameiro: I think this is kernel related
<rlameiro> I need to record that stuff for the OSMP album
<falktx> 11.10 should be the best bet right now
<falktx> rlameiro: you can try the ISO and see if it works ;)
<rlameiro> maybe, maybe some to do with jackdmp/jack1 v jack2
<falktx> maybe
<rlameiro> is it live or just install
<falktx> rlameiro: you can always try jack1
<falktx> rlameiro: that is a live-dvd
<rlameiro> weeeee
<rlameiro> unetbootin here i go
<rlameiro> is very slow from sourceforge man
<falktx> wait a few minutes
<falktx> I just finished the upload
<rlameiro> I am downloading at 700KB/s when I usually download at 3.1 MB/s
<falktx> 700Kb and you complain??
<falktx> damn...
<falktx> I can't get pass 500Kb for *all* downloads
<rlameiro> well, from 3.1 MB/s to 700KB/s its a very big diference :D
<rlameiro> It is slower for sure :D
<rlameiro> yeah, I know
<rlameiro> But i pay 60â¬ for it....
<rlameiro> ok, tv and phone included ... :)
<falktx> meo?
<rlameiro> Zon
<falktx> nice
<rlameiro> yeap
<falktx> I have it two, but just for TV
<rlameiro> 1 MB upload
<falktx> *too
<rlameiro> I want to have my server at home
<falktx> arrg, I get 50Kb upload
<falktx> but internet is Vodafone, not Zon
<rlameiro> well, its better than before
<rlameiro> cofee break
<rlameiro> back
<ScottL> hi rlameiro  :)
<ScottL> how is your new equipment?
<falktx> ScottL: hey!
<falktx> ScottL: this is for you:
<falktx> http://sourceforge.net/projects/kxstudio/files/Live/UbuntuStudio-KR_11.10_32bit.iso/download
<rlameiro> ScottL, hi
<rlameiro> Well, first of all it works
<rlameiro>  :D
<rlameiro> I tried to run my FW interface but no luck
<rlameiro> I wil try this new kxstudio release and if it doesnt works, I am back to US 10.04
<ScottL> falktx, i saw that in the backscroll, i am going to download that now
<falktx> I hope md5sum matches
<falktx> [#1 SIZE:21.7MiB/1,387.6MiB(1%) CN:1 SPD:420.3KiBs ETA:55m27s]
<falktx> rlameiro: ^that is all I can get here
<rlameiro> well, i never check checksums
<rlameiro> I should....
<rlameiro> i am installing it right now on the pen
<ScottL> rlameiro, what problems are you having with your firewire?  is this with ubuntu studio or kxstudio?
<ScottL> is it because of the new firewire stack, juju?
<rlameiro> kxs
<rlameiro> maybe
<ScottL> ah, okay
<falktx> rlameiro: can you check md5sum of the image for me?
<rlameiro> neither cadence or qjackctl can start firewire
<ScottL> holstein, still might be a good resource to troubleshoot, i think he's pretty masterful at that
<falktx> rlameiro: you can try jack1
<rlameiro> ffado-test shows the interface, so it is detected but not by jack
<ScottL> falktx, do you have a sourceforge page or image or something for cadence?
<falktx> rlameiro: just add 'ppa:kxstudio-team/jack1' and update
<falktx> ScottL: not yet
<ScottL> falktx, okay
<rlameiro> hummm, that id iddnt knew :D
<falktx> ScottL: I'll create a full info page before release
 * ScottL is going upstairs to start download and do a few other tasks
<rlameiro> well, i am going to reboot :D i will try it now
<rlameiro> cya
<falktx> hm, no md5sum?
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-10-23
<craigs63> This XFCE reminds me a little of the later Amiga desktop look...
<holstein> i missed some action i see
<stochastic> hey holstein how are you
<holstein> stochastic: YO
<holstein> im well
<holstein> and you?
<stochastic> good holstein, I just had a friend stop by so I'll talk in a bit
<stochastic> ScottL, I've removed ubuntustudio-dev from the testers group in Launchpad now.
<stochastic> I had not realized I was still owner of that group, if you'd like to take over ownership just let me know
<shnatsel> oh btw, I've tried to propose my packages for inclusion in Debian, but I get "failed to connect to <something>" error, I assume my current GPRS connection is too crappy. I'll try again as soon as I get normal internet back.
<stochastic> shnatsel, maybe you can enlighten me on the current state of things
<ScottL> stochastic,  thank you for that, i'll turn around and add the -testers team to the -dev, if that is okay
<stochastic> hey ScottL 
<ScottL> stochastic, i'm not sure about the ownership of the -testers team at this moment
<stochastic> do you need me to post any update on ubuntustudio.org about the newest release (or is there a new 11.10 release of ubuntustudio, I recall an e-mail mid-dev cycle about stopping releases)
<ScottL> shnatsel, you can also send an email manually to the debian multimedia team mailing list for th ITP
<ScottL> stochastic, that's a funny position, because we did make the release but it isn't really "finished"
<stochastic> ???
<ScottL> i think that email was generated by cory who has been a stauch support of dropping releases and going the ppa route for some time
<ScottL> stochastic, the 11.10 release is quite stable and function, just not pretty
<ScottL> we had some issues completing the xfce transition
<stochastic> okay
<shnatsel> my friend installed it and said it's not usable...
<ScottL> we have changes in bzr but they never got pushed to the main repos
<shnatsel> ah, that's a pity
 * stochastic is getting used to the new ubiquity interface right now
<ScottL> shnatsel, i installed it too but found it usable,  i would like to know which parts he has trouble with so we can research it
<shnatsel> ScottL: ok, I'll ask him
<ScottL> this reminds me, micahg , we were scheduled to talk about permissions to the repositories?
<micahg> ScottL: yeah, I was about to have lunch, how about 1 hr from now?
<ScottL> absolutely, i'm home all day, just piddling around with stuff
<ScottL> stochastic, part of the problem during the last few cycles was that we didn't have permission to the repos so some we suffered some stagnation there
<ScottL> other parts are normal attrition that projects see
<stochastic> ScottL, since I've been blind to the development over the last year (maybe two) can you give me a brief 'state of things' rundown (four sentences)?  Is stability of RT kernel a worry, interface (xfce), etc...?
<ScottL> and we did get a slow start and weren't very focused during the last cycle in particular
<ScottL> okay, can do that...
<ScottL> 1.  probably not using -rt anymore, trying to get -lowlatency into repos because it can be built from ubuntu kernel and adjusting irq priorities can be done with all kernel versions from 2.6.39
<ScottL> 2. xfce transition needs work and tweaking still, probably need to just use an existing theme that doesn't require maintenance from us at this point
<ScottL> 3. we are using jack2 now, which now has "-rt privileges" and the user needs to be in the 'audio' group
<stochastic> yay jack2!!!
<knome> ScottL, if greybird isn't totally bad-looking in your opinion, it's a good choice because it's the only xfce theme that supports gtk3 at least somewhat, and more support will come during the pangolin cycle
<ScottL> 4. this cycle, shnatsel and i are working towards dropping the alternate image and making a live dvd image
<shnatsel> knome: sounds great
<knome> mmh :)
<ScottL> 5. there is a good plan to update the website and documentation
<ScottL> knome, as i mentioned, i think greybird is very nice in terms of being clean, not confusing, but still aesthetically pleasing
<knome> yeah
<knome> that's the idea in greybird
<ScottL> knome, holstein and i were talking, our opinion is "just get it done", so if we can't find anything better at this point, we go with greybird
<ScottL> we are tired of plucking around and not getting things done...really, really tired and frustrated
<knome> ScottL, yeah. even if you want to do something else, you really should be in contact with the shimmer team
<knome> ScottL, which i'm leading too, btw ;)
<ScottL> knome, cool :)  we'll see, if we get greybird in there and get other things done as well, maybe we'll explore that, maybe next cycle if not
<knome> yeah.
<ScottL> we have a lot for this cycle, but i think it's doable, but i really want to try to do what we did before...say we are going to do everything, and then people get overwhelmed and nothing gets done
<knome> greybird will most probably (like 99.9999% possibility) be the default for xubuntu 12.04, and we're really trying to make it as stable as possible, even with gtk3
<stochastic> would it be a good idea to put a new update on the ubuntustudio.org site that describes the latest 'release' as an optional release (or transitional release)?
<knome> i see it's mostly about maintaining and fixing little bits in xubuntu in 12.04 :)
<ScottL> stochastic, are you okay with what you have heard so far?
<stochastic> sound good ScottL 
<stochastic> I suggest the web update merely to keep all users in the loop and not appear to be a dead project
<ScottL> stochastic,  the two main things holstein and i want to focus on are the -lowlatency kernel and the website
<ScottL> (followed by a close third of live dvd for me and shnatsel) ;)
<stochastic> cool
<ScottL> stochastic, i'm going to uds this year (was sponsored surprisngly) and i'm going to push the -lowlatency kernel
<knome> ScottL, i'll push the first commit to LP soonish so the IS can get through it, and maybe set it to the staging site too
<ScottL> i still don't know _who_ will make it happen as far as the repos go
<ScottL> i can build it but i don't know the procedure or process for getting it in (and i don't want to go through REVU)
<ScottL> knome, do i need to do anything further for the -website team for the branch or code?
<knome> ScottL, i don't think so
<ScottL> knome, also, holstein and i will be adding content to the development site
<knome> yeah, np
<knome> that won't be automatically copied to the staging site, but it's easy enough to do manually
<ScottL> stochastic, but that is good thinking though about not appearing like a dead website
<ScottL> stochastic, i've been fighting with chris jones to get timely and correct access to the current website to update it
<ScottL> feel free to update it :)
<ScottL> ng keeps sending emails but they are using the wrong key (one time my mistake, once his) or it hasn't worked :/
<knome> ScottL, btw, i might be taking a week (or so) off from FOSS starting from next week, but ending before UDS in any case
<knome> err, before UDS ends :P
<ScottL> knome, no problem, that might give holstein and i time to work on the site :)
<knome> just mentioning it now so it doesn't come as a complete surprise if i decide to do that :)
<knome> yeah
<ScottL> lol, knome, that's a good point ;)
<ScottL> given the history of people dropping the website i might have become quite upset and distraught :-)
<stochastic> ScottL, if you could write up a QUICK press release/note (no more than a single paragraph) about the latest state of 11.10 I'll gladly post it.  I just don't want to write it as I'm mostly blind to the state of things.
<knome> hehe
<ScottL> stochastic, would an ETA of this afternoon be okay with you for that?
<stochastic> take as long as is required ScottL 
<knome> where is astraljava?
<stochastic> hey knome,  First, hi I'm Eric nice to meet you.  Second, the new site is nice, I see it's wordpress rather than drupal - I was thinking drupal would be an easier drop-in replacement but I doubt at this stage it'd be feasible to switch.
<jussi> stochastic: dont start knome on drupal...
<jussi> :P
<stochastic> :-)
<stochastic> hey jussi
<jussi> heya stochastic, been a while...
<stochastic> yeah, I just left one of my two jobs jussi so I'm back to a 40hr work week instead of the 70hr one I was on for the last year
<knome> stochastic, we had to rewrite the site (theme) completely anyway, so staying on drupal didn't have any other pluses than keeping the old content intact - which isn't much
<knome> stochastic, as jussi said, better not start on drupal with me ;)
 * ScottL was snacking for lunch
<ScottL> stochastic, thank you
<knome> stochastic, nice to see you too though :)
<knome> stochastic, bon appetit
<knome> err, ScottL 
<stochastic> knome, I trust the decision was made wisely, I'm just trying to get up to speed
<knome> stochastic, heh, yeah, np :)
<ScottL> stochastic, i understand that wordpress was verboten at one point, but many of the ubuntu sites are now wordpress sites
<stochastic> knome, the main plus I considered was that all the old access permissions/security/etc... would remain in place.
<knome> wordpress is actually much much more easy to manage than drupal, really
<stochastic> okay
<stochastic> I've yet to learn that system
<knome> stochastic, yeah, that too, but adding access to people in wordpress is really easy too
<knome> stochastic, i have some (bad) experiences with drupal in the 5/6 days, but lately, almost every commercial web project i've done has been on wordpress, and thus i'm very familiar with it
<stochastic> cool
<knome> probably the biggest reason to use wordpress
<stochastic> so the timeframe for this switchover would be...
<knome> plus, it has gotten better in CMS-style things too
<knome> if everything goes as expected, i think something like a month (max) would be a realistic timeframe
 * stochastic looks forward to the facelift
<knome> we're getting the theme ready for canonical review really soon
<knome> stochastic, http://temp.knome.fi/ubuntustudio/wordpress/
<knome> that's what we have now, and it's all already under wordpress
<stochastic> yeah, scott had given me the link earlier
<ScottL> stochastic, we have an rt ticket to get the site staged and then we have the review
<knome> yup
<knome> ScottL, actually, the review comes first, after that, the staging site ;)
<stochastic> I notice the current beta site doesn't have any of the social media functions that had been brainstormed in the early stages of the discussion...
<knome> we can include social media
<knome> just tell me what you want to have
<ScottL> knome, sorry if that upsets you, but i did share that link with stochastic as he was pretty involved previously with the website and wanted his (much more informed) opinion
<knome> yeah, no problem :)
<knome> just made sure he had seen it
<stochastic> ScottL, that website planning wiki page  you had going, is that still kicking around/being used?
<knome> one note about social stuff btw
<knome> if we add any plugins, they must be reviewed and approved by canonical
<knome> so that will mean it takes more time
<stochastic> yeah that was an earlier concern about it too
<ScottL> stochastic, not directly as it probably needs to be cleaned up significantly and refocused
 * stochastic browses the wiki again & refreshes memory about monthly meetings etc..
<stochastic> ScottL, do you have the link handy?
 * knome takes a shower
<knome> don't want wife to pass out of the smell when she comes home
<stochastic> ScottL, knome https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/TaskWebRevamp
<ScottL> stochastic, yes, that is it, i think there is a blueprint as well
<ScottL> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio/+spec/update-ubuntustudio-website
<ScottL> i think it links to that wiki page as well
<stochastic> looks like a lot of people have done some significant work on this web revamp but seems like it's been disjointed
<stochastic> knome I'd love to know if you need a hand with any of it
<stochastic> ScottL, the http://www.myhaiku.org/ site, has that contributor vanished?
<knome> stochastic, after the initial commit to the LP repository, there is little what you can do
<knome> stochastic, after that, i've no problems in cooperating or others contributing
<stochastic> knome, I see on the blueprint that there are some TODO items that I'd be happy to help with
<ScottL> stochastic, i believe he moved to japan on business and is quite overwhelmed with that
<ScottL> stochastic, there was another who just vanished without any word
<ScottL> going upstairs a bit, be back in fifteen or twenty minutes
<stochastic> knome, the creation of content and new pages is marked for ScottL and holstein to tackle, the peer review doesn't have any owner/driver yet, can I help with either of those steps?
<knome> stochastic, give me your email and full name, and i'll create you an account on the current site and you can start with the reviewing now :)
<stochastic> knome, so now that I have access, what sort of review are you looking for?
<knome> you'd be better asking from ScottL and holstein 
<stochastic> aesthetic? logistic? security?
<knome> content mostly, i think
<knome> and aesthetic too, in the sense of how elements inside the content should be arranged
<knome> with that, you need to contact me since not all of the css for the content stuff is in place yet
<stochastic> cool, well I'm about to get out the door with some errands I need to do today, but this can be my fodder to look through in the coming days
<knome> yup :)
<knome> thanks for helping out
<knome> bbl ->
<ScottL> stochastic, for now we have discussed including the following for the website:
<ScottL> 1. news/accouncement page
<ScottL> 2. download page
<ScottL> 3. links to tutorials/help (presumably help.ubuntu.com)
<ScottL> 4. link to "contribute to studio" (wiki.ubuntu.com page)
<ScottL>  
<ScottL> we had considered having the website show the help.ubuntu.com pages
<ScottL> we had considered social media
<ScottL> but we currently have simplified our scope to ensure that it gets done, provides a minimal of functionality, and looks good
<ScottL> i do not think that neither holstein or i have time to invest in more than that at this point
<ScottL> at least until other times are resolved
<ScottL> "resolved/comleted"
<micahg> hi ScottL, is now good?
<ScottL> micahg, absolutely!
<micahg> ScottL: so, the requirements are fairly simple, 6 months sustained contribution and demonstrated packaging knowledge for the set being requested
<ScottL> micahg, i strongly suggest that i have the former, i have less explicit faith in the later
<ScottL> although i would suggest that i do have experience both in packaging and our package set
<ScottL> the experience is both with audio packages and studio packages
<ScottL> howeve, i would expect to make mistakes, discover them, and fix them
<ScottL> s/howeve/however
<micahg> ScottL: indeed :), well, looking at your uploads, you have 10 from 11/2009 - 04/2011, mostly with regards to ubuntustudio specific packages (meta, default-settings, look), there's only one package that you modified from Debian and that was back in 2010 for an SRU to lucid
<micahg> some of the ubuntustudio packages are in other packagesets as well, so one has to be careful not to break other derivatives
<micahg> this is especially important closer to release
<ScottL> hmmm, i'm surprised that some of the studio packages are in other packagesets
<micahg> ScottL: right, so we all make mistakes, the key is to learn from them and try not to make the same mistakes twice
<ScottL> aye ;)
<ScottL> that is a mantra i espouse at work as engineering/detailing supervisor as well ;)
<ScottL> does the studio packageset include non studio packages, i.e. mainstream audio packages?
<micahg> ScottL: I would suggest taking this cycle to get some sponsored uploads in various components of the ubuntustudio package set, one you feel comfortable that you'd be willing to upload w/out a sponsor (confident there are no mistakes, yes there might be, but you don't know about them) or someone else suggests that you've reached that point
<micahg> ScottL: here is the packageset list: http://people.canonical.com/~stgraber/package_sets/oneiric/ubuntustudio
<micahg> since ubuntustudio switched to xfce, there's a lot of overlap w/xubuntu
<ScottL> micahg, and to find a sponsor i would need to request it in #ubuntu-motu as needed, correct?
<micahg> ScottL: you can get a list of stuff that needs merging/syncing from Debian for the ubuntustudio packageset here: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+localpackagediffs, just select the packageset you want
<micahg> ScottL: you can prepare a bug and subscribe ubuntu-sponsors or prepare a branch to merge into lp:ubuntu/foo (unless there's another Vcs-Bzr for the package)
<ScottL> micahg, okay :)
<micahg> if it's urgent you can ask for a sponsor in #ubuntu-motu or ping the patch pilot in #ubuntu-devel (listed in /topic there)
<ScottL> i don't want to impugn anyone's work or ethic, however i need to ask, are ubuntu-sponsors responsive?
<micahg> the queue is getting under control again
<ScottL> ah, you have more or less answered my question
<micahg> around release time I think it was hard, but there are ~8-10 pilots scheduled per week that tackle the queue as well as other people who will sponsor stuff from there
<ScottL> i have seen danial t chen mention the "patch pilot" before, i will read more about this
<micahg> ScottL: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/CodeReviews
<ScottL> micahg, i would ask about germinating and updating the meta packages
<ScottL> we _will_ need to do this, most likely many times this cycle
<micahg> ScottL: so those, are a little more difficult, but you can prepare a signed package somewhere that someone can grab or ask someone to do the upload (I assume you have commit access to the bzr branch already)
<ScottL> micahg, indeed, i do
<micahg> ScottL: I'm not quite sure what best practice is for those, I already had upload access when I started to do that for xubuntu
<ScottL> i have imposed on the.muso in the past, i suppose this practice can continue, micahg 
<micahg> ScottL: yeah, I see he's sponsored those for you, maybe we can ask him in a few hours what he thinks
<ScottL> persia, has also done so in past, but he has not been active lately :(
<micahg> I"m happy to do it as well (it's a kick it off and go do something else kinda thing)
<ScottL> micahg, i would appreciate his input as well
<micahg> I've also been picking up random unclaimed ubunustudio stuff to sync, but I can leave those for you or someone else if you have people to work on them
<micahg> ScottL: you also want to check https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html and the LP bug package for the package to make sure someone else isn't working on it ATM
<ScottL> micahg, which type of unclaimed ubuntustudio?  are you speaking of audio packages from debian?
<micahg> ScottL: whatever in the packageset needed merging and hasn't been touched for a while, you can use that localpackagediff page to find what's outstanding and it's good practice to ask the person who touched it last before doing the merge/sync
<ScottL> i thought much of what what synced from debian was automatic, are you saying that it is done manually?
<micahg> no, most is, if there's an Ubuntu diff though, it requires review and either a new merge or a sync
<micahg> we only have about 3k out of 20k with diffs from Debian and only about 1k need attention across the archive
<ScottL> ah. that makes better sense
<micahg> the whole ubuntustudio packageset is ~500 packages it seems
<micahg> 27 need attention, 12 are shared w/other derivatives
<ScottL> there are quite a few packages that cross other groups, including xubuntu at you mentioned
<micahg> that localpackagediff page shows the overlap
<ScottL> like ia32-libs, both for edubuntu and ubuntustudio?
<micahg> ia32-libs is a dead horse, but yes :)
<micahg> you can safely ignore it as a package to merge, but it's rdepends do need to be multiarched for P or you will have broken stuff: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2011-October/034279.html 
<micahg> although, I'm not sure if you want to tackle that for your beginning foraging into packaging :)
<ScottL> micahg, to be forthcoming, i will not be prepared to start any of these until after uds, although i am keenly interested in doing so
<micahg> ScottL: sure, whenever you're ready :)
<ScottL> i still have a busy week of work before uds along with some incidental commitments i need to address as well
<ScottL> for example, i am writing up a blueprint for getting the -lowlatency kernel into the repos....
<ScottL> micahg, would you be able to explain, in broad terms, the required process for getting the actual code into the repos once i have it built in ppa or a team branch?
<ScottL> if not, that is completely understandable
<micahg> ScottL: create a debdiff against the version in the archive and attach to a bug, subscribe ubuntu-sponsors or create a merge proposal into the lp:ubuntu/foo branch which foo is the package (unless there's another Vcs-Bzr in the control file for Ubuntu)
<micahg> ScottL: team branch I think you just need to attach the branch to the bug
<micahg> and then subscribe ubuntu-sponsors
<ScottL> micahg, in your opinion is it worth (or even still in time) to suggest the -lowlatency blueprint for uds-p?
<ScottL> falktx, daniel holbach suggested that the lightdm-theme should depends on ubuntustudio-wallpaper, do you know why he would suggest this?
<ScottL> falktx, is the image we are using for the lightdm-theme in the -wallpapers package?
<falktx> ScottL: it needs the wallpaper
<falktx> so yes, it's in the wallpapers package, and it should depend no it because of it
<falktx> *on it
<ScottL> falktx,  do you have time to update that package and push to the bzr branch?
<falktx> ScottL: later next week, I no longer run Ubuntu
 * falktx is on Arch
<ScottL> lol, okay i'll make time this coming week then and update the bug report ;)
<ScottL> micahg, re: -lowlatency kernel, the process you describe sounds like i do not need to wait for uds-p to decide the kernel version, i can make it all now?
<micahg> ScottL: umm, the kernel team usually decides the kernel version :)
<ScottL> micahg, but doesn't UKT do that at uds-p?
<micahg> yes
<ScottL> okay
<ScottL> would i need to wait until then to start the -lowlatency kernel process?
<micahg> ScottL: I'm not familiar with what's required, do you have a link to the blueprint?
<ScottL> i do....
<ScottL> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio/+spec/lowlatency-kernel-in-repos
<ScottL> granted, i wrote it and it's not heavy on technicals
<ScottL> in fact, i'm still really writing the specification at this point
<micahg> ScottL: you should discuss with the kernel team, they'd be best suited to help
<micahg> unless you intend on maintaining a kernel...'
<ScottL> i am intending on maintaining the kernel
<ScottL> my experience with ukt has been a little...interesting
<micahg> oh, hmm....that's a large security undertaking
<ScottL> the -lowlatency kernel is based on the ubuntu kernel
<ScottL> with the exception of some flags during complie
<ScottL> compile
<ScottL> this isn't the realtime kernel with an invasive patch
<micahg> so, you plan to rebase/update when they do security releases (~every 3 weeks)
<ScottL> if that is required, yes....this kernel is very important to ubuntu studio
<micahg> ScottL: you can discuss that with jjohansen
<ScottL> ukt has expressed that they will not maintain another kernel for a niche derivative (or flavour)
<ScottL> i completely understand that position
<ScottL> it will need to be a community maintained kernel, therefore i would expect it to be in universe
<ScottL> and then we can ship it in the ubuntu studio image :)
<ScottL> micahg, is jjoahnsen in the ukt irc channel?
<ScottL> or #ubuntu-kernel
<micahg> ScottL: maybe, he'll be in #ubuntu-hardened on Monday (he's the Security Kernel engineer)
<ScottL> i'll note to talk to him on monday during work if i can get some free time (i'm really trying to get many things done before uds, including working saturday and today morning)
<ScottL> you have been quite a wealth of both information and assistance, micahg  :)
<ScottL> i very much appreciate your time and attention
<micahg> ScottL: my pleasure, glad I was able to help
<ScottL> micahg, one other question, i decided to go ahead and update the ubuntustudio-lightdm-theme package and add Depends: ubuntustudio-wallpapers
<ScottL> as i update the changelog i am presuming that i need to change the releae to precise at this time
<ScottL> we will not get it into oneiric for release obviously
<ScottL> i'm not missing anything about that am i?
<micahg> ScottL: well, I generally advise people to set to UNRELEASED until it's ready for upload (the uploader can set the release), unless you're sure it needs no other changes
<ScottL> i shall go with UNRELEASED then, that sounds very sane and prudent, i wonder why no one else has mentioned this before
<ScottL> i rather like it, actually
<ScottL> heh, i need to do more packaging so i don't have to keep relying on my cheat sheet :P
<micahg> ScottL: it's not a test, cheat sheets are fine :)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-10-15
<micahg> falktx: so, the 64 bit wine should use the 32bit wine for the things that are 32 bit only
<falktx> heh?
<falktx> wine can work both in 32bit and 64bit (win32 and win64 executables)
<falktx> a 64bit system with wine, when built correctly, can handle both
<falktx> (there can be a win64 only wine)
<falktx> but a 32bit system can't use 64bit wine
<falktx> this is pretty much the same as in linux
<falktx> linux 64bit can use 32bit binaries when properly set (multilib)
<falktx> same thing happens with wine
<micahg> well, it should be using multiarch not multilib in precise and later
<falktx> the concept is the same
<falktx> multiarch is multilib 
<micahg> no
<micahg> multiarch is using the 32 bit binaries built on 32 bit on 64 bit
<micahg> multilib is building a 32 bit binary on 64 bit
<falktx> but multiarch requires multilib to work
<micahg> nope
<falktx> there has to be a minimal libc-i386 compiled on the 64bit system
<micahg> well, maybe ATM just for libc, but eventually I would think not
<falktx> I don't think so, we'll always need the libc stuff
<falktx> but anyway, the 64bit wine works in a very similar way
<micahg> no, actually, multiarch uses libc6:i386
<ailo> micahg: Ok, I edited the changelog. Would be fantastic if you could help upload it (ubuntustudio-default-settings).
<micahg> ailo: is there a bug associated with that change?
<micahg> ailo: also, is this something that must be on the DVD or can be an SRU?
<len-dt> micahg, if it is SRU it would only work for new users. Any already installed system would not get the update because it has to do with the panel config that gets imported to the users personal config at first boot.
<len-dt> * sorry first login
<micahg> len-dt: ok, maybe documenting this all in a bug would be good then, set to High since you consider it RC (or I can do that)
<len-dt> micah I can't set importance. Bug #1066634
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1066634 in ubuntustudio-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Right side of top bar/panel moves with window buttons aditiion/removal" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1066634
<micahg> len-dt: can you just add a snippet why it's RC
<micahg> and why it can't be an SRU
<len-dt> Will do
<len-dt> Done
<len-dt> I have also subscribed ailo to the bug so he can reasign it to himself is he wishes and add comments.
 * micahg marked it high for you
<len-dt> Thank you
<len-dt> micahg, sorry we didn't do it before, I thought it was something to do with the indicator removal and so when we put that back in we realized that was not so.
<micahg> is it ready for me to upload?
<len-dt> Yes
<len-dt> revision 178
<len-dt> sorry 176
 * micahg adds bug # and uploads
<micahg> len-dt: are there any other US specific things needing to be fixed as that upload will require a rebuild
<len-dt> I honestly can't think of anything.
<len-dt> I am quite happy with what we have managed to get done
<len-dt> There is a new respin for use with the menubar fix in it.
<len-dt> 3.4% of a 2gig file for two or three lines of code :)
<len-live> ailo, iso tested (live for now, I have to go to bed) menu bar is fixed. Thankyou ailo and micahg 
<len-live> I will test it installed as well tomorrow.
<len-live> good night all.
<ailo> micahg: Ah, sorry. I went to sleep there. Thanks for the help on that. I'll make sure to follow procedure next time :(.
<ailo> len-dt: Nice work again. I'll test the ISO once I get a chance. 
<len-dt> smartboyhw, ok
<smartboyhw> len-dt, scott-work Since the upgrade is not that good, maybe we can change the release notes so that we say "You can of course upgrade, but it is not recommended". Any other suggestions?:D
<len-dt> That works for me. You can add that the user should manually install ubuntustudio-photography and ubuntustudio-publishing
<smartboyhw> len-dt, let me for scott-work's approval then I will go and ask to change it in #ubuntu-release :D
<smartboyhw> BTW is ttoine here?
<smartboyhw> He (or she?) looks interested in that Open Week session:D
<smartboyhw> len-dt, wait is that "put menu bar to the right" thing packaged and uploaded?
<len-dt> Yes and I have seen it work at least on live
<len-dt> I haven't had time to install
<smartboyhw> len-dt, what is the name for that menu bar package?
<len-dt> -settings
<smartboyhw> len-dt, duh I updated setttings 4 hours ago and it doesn't stay on the right after reboot weird
<len-dt> you would have to remove ~/.config/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/xfce4-panel.xml
<smartboyhw> len-dt, eh
<len-dt> on next login it will be recreated.
<smartboyhw> OK
 * len-dt is going
<smartboyhw> bye len-dt q
<smartboyhw> scott-work, can I do the change?
<smartboyhw> OK respinning coming with ubuntustudio-default-settings version 0.39 :D
<scott-work> smartboyhw: the release notes are in the wiki, you can probably search for them with "quantal quertzal" (or however it is spelled) and "release notes" to find them
<scott-work> or skaet should have a link, i might somewhere but i can't remember where are the moment
<scott-work> just for the record, i've never been a fan of upgrading from release to release and we even strongly discouraged upgrading to 12.04 due to the number of changes in Gnome -> XFCE
<smartboyhw> scott-work, since len-dt thinks it isn't that good to upgrade I will add in "Upgrading from Ubuntu Studio 12.04" : Please install ubuntustudio-meta-photography and ubuntustudio-meta-publishing yourself" 
<scott-work> and if your machine is really a production machine to create content, you probably don't want to be upgrading (and most likely fixing small breakage) each six months :/
<smartboyhw> :/
<scott-work> smartboyhw: you might preface that by saying something like "If you need the 'photography' and/or 'publishing' meta-packages, then...."
<smartboyhw> scott-work, ah OK I will do the edit now then.
<scott-work> okay, leaving for doctor's appointment
<smartboyhw> scott-work, you're sick/
<smartboyhw> ?
<scott-work> yes, been four days now so i'm going to doctor finally
<smartboyhw> Eh:(
<knome> hey
<knome> who's doing the US openweek session?
<knome> i'm told you asked we could have a shared session
<scott-work> knome: i don't think anyone has actually volunteered yet
<scott-work> i consider that a volunteer might not be forthcoming
<ailo> Was just bitching to Netflix for the lack of Linux support. It was just enabled as a service in Sweden. Silverlight (barf)
<ailo> Great support, unless you have Linux. You get to chat with someone in a minute, but
<ailo> Well, anyway..
<ailo> scott-work: How's your schedule, regarding opening week?
<ailo> I guess I could do it, if no one else volunteers
<ailo> I'll have a look at what it's about..
<ailo> knome: Are you guys doing some sort of a tutorial?
<ailo> hehe, looking at previous logs
<ailo> Well, some questions asked anyway.
<knome> ailo, well... i don't know. i told not to count on us still :)
<knome> and jose told me somebody from US told they'd like to do the session with us..
<holstein> id love to do it... lemme check the time though, i dont hink i can
<holstein> i did one before too, so i know generally the process
<holstein> wednesday, 17:00 UTC ?
<knome> that's it
<ailo> holstein: Looks that way to me. Can you do it?
<holstein> i will be on the road.. that looks like noon for me
<holstein> i'll be driving to the theatre for a matinee and an evening show
<ailo> Should be around noon, yes
<holstein> i could go early, but i cant depend on the network there
<holstein> its sketch
<ailo> Are you driving? Use a smartphone, why don't you
<holstein> hehe
<knome> lol
<ailo> holstein: Wed, next week, right?
<knome> 24
<knome> so... yeah
<holstein> ailo: i got this show for 2 more weeks... lemme look
<holstein> yeah. same on the 24th
<scott-work> ailo: sorry, had people at my desk..mostly likely a cannot guarantee i can be available :(
<holstein> sunday the 28th is my last performance \o/
<ailo> I'll probably be at home, zipping a protein shake. I have time, anyway
<ailo> sipping* (?)
<knome> scott-work, wait, you don't irc when people are at your desk? do you realize how much geekyness points you lose?
<scott-work> i have done it several times previously and i wouldn't mind doing it again, but i think it would be better to have someone else do it
<scott-work> knome: hehe, yes and i could get fired as well :P
<knome> duh
<scott-work> i don't hide the fact that i'm on IRC, but i don't flaunt it either, to be honest
<holstein> ailo: you can do it? that would be great :)
<knome> i always try to do that when people are at my desk
<knome> wait, i work from home...
<ailo> heh, my office chair at home is my bed
<holstein> len-dt: im getting some relevant lmms data
<holstein> if you want to chat about it sometime
<ailo> holstein: data?
<holstein> yup... just user info from some folks
<ailo> holstein: I guess you mean the chat on #opensourcemusicians 
<ailo> Yea, I've heard of the bad jack support
<ailo> However, it can be used with pulseaudio, or alsa
<ailo> Which is not great, but as a newbie program, it is kind of
<holstein> ailo: that and some other chats ive been having from time to time
<holstein> floatingGoat has been using it in ubuntu
<scott-work> if anyone else wants to review the release notes for studio: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseNotes/UbuntuStudio
<ailo> scott-work: Looks good to me
<ailo> We should probably add something more to the website about some changes
<ailo> Like how to install graphic drivers, since it has changed
<ailo> Not an Ubuntu Studio change. I added that as an Graphics issue to the release notes. Not exactly an issue, but not a Ubuntu Studio feature either
<ailo> I'll start working on something tomorrow
<len-1210> Next cycle we should spend some time on the double storage device problem.
<len-1210> Thats the only real problem I see.
<len-1210> Will someone please test the amd64 ISO?
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-10-16
<astraljava> len-dt: I can test it tonight, but it's about 9 hours ahead. If someone is able to, sooner, go ahead.
<ailo-w> scott-work: I started working on a full user guide for Ubuntu Studio, but I'm starting to think that 1. it's a lot of work for one person, 2. It's easier to get people to help work on it, if it's in the community wiki. I'm considering the options now
<smartboyhw> ailo-w: Wow big work 
 * smartboyhw is surprised that scott-work has not left, given he should be sleeping in his timezone:D
<smartboyhw> ailo, er actualy I think including a user guide is a good idea:D
<ailo-w> smartboyhw: I've only done the outline, and I suspect I might never do some of the workflows, since I know too little about them
 * smartboyhw is now doing the amd64 build testing now:D
<smartboyhw> ailo-w, well you are the doc lead so:D
<smartboyhw> OK I think the 20121015.1 build works fine:D
 * smartboyhw finds yesterday's IRC logs here VERY INTERESTING :D
<ailo-w> Here's a draft of the docs. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/UserGuide I will continue working from the community wiki. 
<smartboyhw> So am I right, that ailo-w will be doing that OpenWeek session or ?
<ailo-w> Seems like it
<smartboyhw> knome, on that "who wants to do the US session in Xubuntu" thing, actually people have comments on the user mail list, then I actually asked JoseeAntonioR to make the arrangement:D
<ailo-w> Who's that?
<ailo-w> I'll need to read the mail list
<smartboyhw> ailo-w, the guy who is organizing the whole Open Week :D
<ailo-w> Lunch time. bbl
<smartboyhw> ailo-w, bbl
<smartboyhw> len-dt, did the amd64 test quite good:D
<knome> smartboyhw, so you asked that we'd do it together, but was there somebody who had volunteered to do the US part?
<smartboyhw> knome, erm....... The situation was this. Originally it should be Xubuntu paired up with Kubuntu, and Lubuntu paired up with Ubuntu Studio. Then some guy said that Xubuntu should pair up with Ubuntu Studio instead. It isn't really related to who is doing it, it is there already when the schedule is first released and that at that time Xubuntu already had the half-hour.........So then I think pairing up the both wouldn't be a big
<smartboyhw>  problem...
 * smartboyhw first got a too long message
<knome> ok, right
<knome> fair enough
<smartboyhw> :)
<smartboyhw> ailo-w, so a question: You are going to do the user documentation and the developer documentation at the same time? That is going to be a lot of work
<ailo-w> smartboyhw: Well, not really. I will not do a complete user guide. Only the audio part, and since I know it pretty well, it will be less work
<smartboyhw> ailo-w, ah:D
<ailo-w> For the developer docs, I need to research all the different things we do around here, so I have no hurry with that at the moment
<smartboyhw> ailo-w, :)
<astraljava> scott-work: len-dt: micahg: ailo-w: smartboyhw: Is https://code.launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/ubuntu/quantal/lightdm-gtk-greeter/lang-chooser-on-by-default/+merge/129758 something we'd like to see?
<astraljava> Essentially the change is:
<astraljava> 23-show-language-selector=false
<astraljava> 24+show-language-selector=true
<astraljava> dholbach on #ubuntu-devel was asking.
<smartboyhw> astraljava, wait
<smartboyhw> astraljava, what does it do? Select the language?
<astraljava> That'd be the obvious guess, yeah.
<smartboyhw> astraljava, not sure..........
<ailo-w> astraljava: Seems good to me, adding it.
<astraljava> ailo-w: Ok. Might wanna talk to Daniel on #ubuntu-devel, I forget whether we have our own conf file, or will it be derived from Xubuntu, or will it come straight from the orig source.
<smartboyhw> astraljava, I am talking:D
<ailo-w> smartboyhw: We might need our own bug report on that then
<smartboyhw> ailo-w, wait we have our own theme on that
<smartboyhw> also we do have a language selection menu
<smartboyhw> We include !ubuntustudio-lightdm-theme on it
<smartboyhw> !ubuntustudio-lightdm-theme
<ailo-w> smartboyhw: We do? I don't have the OS here, to check. I guess we have inherited the Xubuntu setting?
<smartboyhw> ailo-w, yes I HAVE The OS:D
<smartboyhw> We do ship ubuntustudio-lightdm-theme 0.4 version, and I think we inherited it from Xubuntu
<ailo-w> smartboyhw: Do you ever use Chinese language setting on Ubuntu Studio?
<smartboyhw> ailo-w, NEVER I use English for all my OS
<ailo-w> Would be interesting to know how well it works
<smartboyhw> Actually I tell you what... astraljava created the theme himself!
<smartboyhw> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio/ubuntustudio-lightdm-theme
<smartboyhw> ailo-w, so?
<smartboyhw> what do you think?
<ailo-w> smartboyhw: Maybe it is not so common to use Chinese language on a operative system? I can imagine the chinese language files are more useful when creating Chinese writing, and that type of thing
<ailo-w> For publishing, among other things..
<smartboyhw> ailo-w: I have not even typed a single Chinese character on my Ubuntu Studio :P
<astraljava> Well yeah I did. People shouldn't expect me to remember things I've done more than a year ago, when I can't even remember which pants I put on this morning.
<knome> astraljava, or if you put pants
<astraljava> That has almost certainly never happened.
<ailo-w> Best to never take them off
<smartboyhw> Hey scott-work len-dt ailo did that Language thing done?
 * smartboyhw is surprised that ailo and knome have been joking about astraljava's pants LOL;D
<holstein> len-dt: may i pm you about something?
<holstein> backporting related
<len-dt> holstein, ok
<holstein> actually, it doesnt need to be in a PM.. im interested in backporting, and ive tried a few times to get into it
 * micahg pokes his head up at the mention of backporting
<holstein> i have RTFM'd a bit, but i just dont have some of the basics that are expect.. or at least thats what i think
<len-dt> :)
 * len-dt is not there either
<len-dt> Time is not something I have a whole lot right now.
<holstein> its so "over my head" in a lot of ways
<holstein> other than taking a few courses in programming, which is not out of the question, or begging someone locally to just hold my hand a bit, im not sure how to get there
<holstein> i plan on taking a few weeks off in january, and this might be something i could tackle then
<len-dt> I think in theory you are taking a newer src and packaging it against the libs that go with the version to are porting to.
<holstein> len-dt: i was just feeling out where you thought my efforts would be best spent
<len-dt> So just learing the build process
<holstein> micahg: if you have time to share any thoughts, feel free.. i appreciate the input
<len-dt> The big noticable thing is kernel upkeep for LTS
<len-dt> Also jackd
<micahg> holstein: are you talking about patch backporting or package backporting?
<holstein> micahg: tbh, im not sure.. mostly, whatever this project needs the most.. i suppose pacakging newer stuff and sending it back to the LTS
<micahg> holstein: backporting newer packages to LTS is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBackports
<holstein> the most i got done before was filing the bug
<holstein> scott was helping me
<holstein> but he finally just did it, because is was so over my head
<holstein> for example "the required modifications should be attached to the backport request, in the form of a debdiff or a bzr branch"
<micahg> backports are pretty easy (assuming they're no change backports), just follow the instructions in the bug you file and I or another backporter will act on it
<holstein> i dont know how to express how many words in the sentence just dont mean anything to me
<micahg> debdiff == output of debdiff command (which gives you the diff between 2 source packages)
<holstein> its just so foriegn, and i have no experience.. but i feel like i could handle it if i had a "starter project" or something
<holstein> i mean, im pretty good with running the OS, and im good with hardware... installing and repairing... etc
<holstein> ive just not done any coding at all
<micahg> holstein: find something you want backported to the LTS, file the bug (with requestbackport) and ask for help if you get stuck (here or in #ubuntu-motu)
<holstein> micahg: cool.. thanks!
<len-dt> holstein, do you have a machine running the LTS?
<holstein> len-dt: yup.. this one is.. my daily netbook
<holstein> len-dt: what do we "need" you think? there is a newer lmms i could play with i suppose
<len-dt> Ok, that would make a good work platform
<len-dt> LMMS is probably up to date on kxstudio. If you ask falktx he may be quite happy to see that packaged as a backport. or to tell you what the diffs are.
<holstein> micahg: pete graner is not that far from me.. just 40 minutes or so
<holstein> we are both so busy though, and im not sure how much 'hand holding' i could talk him into
<holstein> im going to reach out to my LUG and see if i can get a partner in crime here.. someone to help me stay motivated and not get discouraged
<len-dt> Sounds good.
 * len-dt is not sure there is a LUG around here
<holstein> i revived this one
<holstein> it was dead... we had 4 at the first meeting... amber graner was one of those 3 :)
<holstein> now, we can see 30 sometimes
<len-dt> The two I can turn up are 95 miles away
<len-dt> (and two $70 ferry rides)
<holstein> yeah... thats no good...
<holstein> i havent had time to maintain this one here as much as i once had
<holstein> theres a lack of "presenters" too...
<len-dt> There isn't even a store specializing in macs anymore either.
<holstein> we just got a few of those over the past few years
<len-dt> Hmm, they just fixed one of my bugs... I wonder if that will make for a respin or be SRUed
<Len-nb> Looks like respins in an hour or so.
<Len-nb> respin started
<len-dt> Doesn't that just figure. Looks like a build failure...
<Len-nb> I guess thats why it is 16.1 that made it.
<Len-nb>  Anyone can test 64bit? (again)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-10-17
 * len-dt wanders off to test the 32 bit
<Len-nb> Install fails at manual partition screen :P
<Len-nb> bug #1067566
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1067566 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "ubiquity crashes when "something else" is selected" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1067566
<len-live> micahg, with respect to bug #1066401...
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1066401 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "distribution upgrade to 12.10 omits two metas" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1066401
<len-live> this is because the two new metas are only in the seeds and not included as part of desktop or something.
<len-live> So it is quite reasonable to expect them not to be included in an upgrade.
<micahg> correct
<len-live> however, is it acceptable? 
<len-live> Should we be making it so that these two isos do get included?
<len-live> micahg, should I make it a won't fix? Or fix with docs? or recommend not upgrading?
<micahg> if you want it included in the desktop, we just need to SRU the meta
<len-live> I was just wondering what the correct response is... If we include it in the desktop we have to do that at least until next LTS so that LTS->LTS works.
<micahg> yes
<micahg> well, it's really whatever you want it to be
<len-live> micahg, it sounds like we have to decide if we want the upgrade to work. and what we want an upgraded system to look like.
<micahg> yes
<len-live> Ok we do some discussion on this next cycle. Is it ok if we leave that test case failed then?
<micahg> it's all up to you
<len-live> Or do we need to withdraw it?
<micahg> whatever you like
<len-live> so long as we can still release the ISO.
<micahg> that you have to discuss with skaet
<len-live> OK
<len-dt> Good night all. Respin soon, hope it installs this time
<ailo-w> len-dt: There was a problem with installation?
<ailo-w> Not because of us, I hope
<ailo-w> GN
<ailo-w> Ah, fix released. Right
<smartboyhw> ailo, I've asked the Open Week organizers to add you as the instructor of the Ubuntu Studio section
<smartboyhw> Is everyone rady for tmr's release?:D
<smartboyhw> *ready
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-10-18
<holstein> len-dt: there you are!
<holstein> im home, but i cant really help out im afraid
<holstein> i only have 7 hours to sleep
<holstein> im looking up the test page
<holstein> see if anyone has done the tests yet for 64bit
<holstein> i'll link it to Ralph
<Len-nb> Not much I can do. I have only the 32bit
<Len-nb> even a vbox is something.
<holstein> yeah... i'll start downloading the iso
<holstein> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/dvd/20121017.1/quantal-dvd-amd64.iso is the right one, correct?
<Len-nb> I think.
<Len-nb> The time stamp should be 18:45 (server time)
<Len-nb> Ya, 17.1 is right.
<holstein> ok.. you have the iso? lets split this up and knock it out in Vbox
<Len-nb> Can I do that with a 32 bit machine?
<holstein> in vbox
<Len-nb> You may spend a lot of time teaching me then :)
<holstein> its not ideal, but ralph doesnt know what we are talking about 
<holstein> maybe we could talk someone on the xubuntu team into doing it
<Len-nb> Let me wander downstairs
<Len-nb> astraljava, would be ideal I think (does he have 64bit?)
<holstein> i have one, but just the one.. and im not going to be able to mess with it tonite
<len-dt> Ok, I will start downlaoding
<len-dt> How do I set up vbox?
<micahg> apt-get install virtualbox :)
<micahg> you can't do 64 bit unless you have a VTx chip though
<holstein> yeah.. this one doesnt have it... 
<holstein> i no one machine here did though... ive dont it before...
<holstein> i know*
<len-dt> Looking at the time it will be too late for me to do anything by the time I even get the ISO downloaded.
<holstein> yeah... im not sure i can help either
<holstein> im wiped too
<len-dt> 2AM or so.
<holstein> my brain is dead
<holstein> ive been playing all day... and driving
<holstein> len-dt: when are the "due"?
<len-dt> I do have to go to work tomorrow.... it will be 3pm pdt (-700) by the time I can start anything.
<len-dt> I think release was some time ago?
<holstein> drag... did we miss it?
<holstein> what is that channel... #ubuntu-release?
<len-dt> it is already 3.25 am on the 18th
<len-dt> yes
<len-dt> They haven't changed the banner to say released.
<len-dt> holstein, pretty quiet in there
<holstein> thats not the right channel
<holstein> its #ubuntu-testing i think
<len-dt> well I will let it download, but I will have to go. good night
<holstein> len-dt: well... if we miss it, we miss it...
<holstein> len-dt: you are doing a lot for the team, and we should have testers
<holstein> we should have some users who understand what that link was we sent out..
<holstein> len-dt: im going to burn this disc and do these on metal
<holstein> check back in if you start doing the tests... the ones i do should be on the list anyways
<holstein> our iso looks good
<holstein> i dont know who did what with the theme and wallpaper and all, but it looks slick
<holstein> len-dt: i did them
<holstein> len-dt: i didnt get a live persistent setup going though
<holstein> acmeinc1: if you did the live, i did the others
<Len-nb> the only one missing is the upgrade case
<holstein> acmeinc1: if you are idle and into testin, xubuntu needs help
<holstein> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/240/builds
<holstein> len-dt: i didnt see the upgrade case anyways
<Len-nb> all the upgrades are together not with the flavour.
<holstein> len-dt: does that depend on the iso releasing?
<Len-nb> I don't know.
<holstein> i dont think so
<holstein> i think it would be an iso testcase if it were
<holstein> anyways, we are good, but xubuntu could use help
<holstein> oh.. i see it now http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/240/builds/26107/testcases
<holstein> that would take me 7 hours i bet
<Len-nb> ask skaet I guess. I really am off to sleep though.
<Len-nb> It doesn't take long if you already have the ISOs... but not to worry
<holstein> len-dt: i dont have 12.04 installed here yet though
<Len-nb> holstein, Thank you very much
<holstein> i'd have to download it... i cant do it tonite
<holstein> Len-nb: thank you.. the desktop looks great!
<Len-nb> if you can't you can't 
<Len-nb> the install works ok though... best way to go
<Len-nb> GN
<astraljava> holstein: Did the amd64 tests get done?
<astraljava> I didn't check IRC after 3 pm. yesterday...
<astraljava> I see they did. Thanks, guys.
<ailo-w> No releases yet, right? Not even Ubuntu, I think
<ailo-w> What are the things we need to do now, post-release?
<ailo-w> 1. update download page 2. post release notes
<ailo-w> What else?
<ailo-w> astraljava: ^
<astraljava> ailo-w: I don't think there's much else. Post something on the lists, maybe? Update IRC channel topics.
<astraljava> I think releases happen later today. I somehow have a time of 1500 UTC in mind, but that could be anything.
<jussi> !isitout
<ubottu> Nope, it's not out. - http://bit.ly/Wdxvys !party in #ubuntu-release-party
<astraljava> Heh.
<smartboyhw> OK the images as I saw now are all tested....Just wait for scott-work to declare it is readyy:D
<smartboyhw> EMERGENCY: ailo len-dt micahg ailo-w astraljava drupin if you can please test Upgrade Ubuntu Studio amd64 testcase....Nobody is doing it and I can't
<astraljava> smartboyhw: If it's still on when I get home, I can give it a go, but it'll get probably too close to comfort, deadline-wise.
<smartboyhw> astraljava, er I know you feel difficult doing deadline-wise....OK hopefully we can make it then
<smartboyhw> Irratiing.....Howcome on the Ubuntu Studio 12.04.1 installation partitioning thing it shows the Xubuntu logo rather than the Studio one?
<knome> >:)
<knome> that's probably the burden you got from copying all the xubuntu configuration
<smartboyhw> knome, yeah
<ailo-w> I can't test either, until about 3h from now
<smartboyhw> ailo-w, by that time I will have finished it:D
<knome> by that time it's out :P
<smartboyhw> knome, true:P
<smartboyhw> To everyone: Expect Ubuntu Studio images ready when scott-work arrives
<jussi> !isitout
<ubottu> Nope, it's not out. - http://bit.ly/Wdxvys !party in #ubuntu-release-party
<smartboyhw> jussi, please wait:D
<knome> jussi, stupid one. :)
<smartboyhw> LOL
<smartboyhw> Ubuntu Studio builds marked ready
<len-dt> smartboyhw, I was just thinking that the text from the blue prints anything marked "done" could be put together as release notes.
<smartboyhw> len-dt, er hrm.......Let me ask skaet for that
<len-dt> (if it doesn't vanish at release)
<len-dt> I can do it later after work if need be.
<smartboyhw> len-dt, ok
<len-dt> speaking of work....
 * len-dt rushes out the door...
<smartboyhw> len-dt, LOL
<smartboyhw> len-dt, ailo astraljava to anyone that has website and IRC channels access rights, here is the new Ubuntu Studio 12.10 Release link: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/releases/12.10/release/
<holstein> woohoo!
<holstein> the trops rallied and the 64bits got tested in time it seems!!
<holstein> troops*
<holstein> smartboyhw: thanks for doing those 64bit upgrade tests
<smartboyhw> holstein, :D
<holstein> knome: ping
<holstein> i bet you are busy, but could you help us with updating http://ubuntustudio.org/download/ at your leisure?
 * smartboyhw agrees
<smartboyhw> Actually I wanted to port the release notes too
<holstein> its not knome 's first rodeo, so lets see what he says and has time for
<knome> holstein, updating - how? :)
<smartboyhw> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseNotes/UbuntuStudio
<smartboyhw> The release notes
<holstein> knome: with the 12.10 links or whatever... what did you guys do?
 * holstein looking at the xubuntu site...
<knome> holstein, oh right, just the links. sure
<smartboyhw> knome, and the release notes can you?:D
<knome> smartboyhw, what about them?
<ailo> smartboyhw: I can do it
<knome> ailo, cheers
<smartboyhw> ailo, yeah
<holstein> knome: yeah, whatever is easy
<knome> yup
<ailo> I'll update the download page too
<knome> ailo, oh, cool. thanks :)
<smartboyhw> ailo, cheers
<smartboyhw> ailo, knome holstein len-dt thanks for bringing Xubuntu and Ubuntu Studio 12.10
<holstein> i havnet spent much time in ubuntustudio since 10.04... i have to say, the desktop and theme look great
<holstein> the wallpaper is really nice and appropriate
<holstein> things match and look clean
<holstein> everything works
<smartboyhw> holstein, :D
<ailo> The only thing about the wallpaper I think is that the resolution is really low
<holstein> or most everything i tested last night
<ailo> Looks not so good in 1080p
<smartboyhw> ailo, agreed
<holstein> ailo: i think its supposed to be that way, right?
<holstein> i thought that was the "vibe" of it
<ailo> It doesn't look right in high resolution
<ailo> Looks a bit home made, if you know what I mean
 * astraljava thinks it looks sweet on 1920x1200
<smartboyhw> ailo, it is home made:P
<holstein> yeah, i thought that was just the feel of it.. kind of 'natural' or something
<holstein> anyways.. kudos are due for sure
<holstein> if my dual head had "just worked" out of the box, i would have upgraded right then :)
<astraljava> There were some issues certainly during the cycle, but it should JustWorkâ¢ now.
<smartboyhw> astraljava, as Steve Jobs said "It all just works":D
<holstein> last night, with the latest 12.10,, it didnt just work
<holstein> im going to try installing the proprietary nvidia drivers though
<smartboyhw> holstein, alright
<holstein> the pulse JACK source thing is neat
<smartboyhw> holstein, :D
<holstein> i'll want to know how to just disable that on my system, but its nice that it "just works"
<smartboyhw> holstein, good:D
<ailo> Website updated
<smartboyhw> ailo, :D
<ailo> Just a note. I would want to recommend we move away from recommending the LTS as a production machine, unless ones aim is to keep the same installation for years
<ailo> For us, LTS does not seem to have any other benefit
<smartboyhw> ailo, well you can:D
<smartboyhw> ailo, you need to update the bottom part of the download page
<smartboyhw> All about 12.04....Change it to either 12.04 or 12.10
<ailo> smartboyhw: Ah, yeah..
<smartboyhw> ailo, :D
<drupin> hey smartboyhw 
<drupin> how ya macho man
<drupin> errrrr
<smartboyhw> drupin, ailo astraljava knome yay Ubuntu 12.10 is officially released along with Ubuntu Studio 12.10 !!!!!!
<smartboyhw> also to len-dt 
<smartboyhw> Thanks all!!!!!!!!
<smartboyhw> sadly scott-work missed it...
<smartboyhw> Anyone that has the ability to change channel topics?
<smartboyhw> astraljava, can you help change the channel topics?
* micahg changed the topic of #ubuntustudio-devel to: Ubuntu Studio Development Channel | https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio | Ubuntu Studio 12.04 LTS is released: http://goo.gl/FEAxP | Ubuntu Studio 12.10 is released http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/releases/12.10/release/
<smartboyhw> micahg, good:D
<smartboyhw> micahg, do it also in #ubuntustudio main channel
 * micahg doesn't have permissions there
<smartboyhw> micahg, oh no
<knome> smartboyhw, it's not the end of the world
<smartboyhw> knome, lol
<smartboyhw> Of course it is not:D
<knome> it's better to download the new image tomorrow anyway, more available bandwidth
<knome> and more torrent seeders
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-10-19
<ailo> hmm, I thought that open week would be IRC only :(
<drupin> what i need download for testing
<ailo> drupin: 12.10 is released now. What is it that you want to test?
<smartboyhw> Gee the channel topic in #ubuntustudio is still not changed...
<holstein> gee? it wont change its self ;)
<smartboyhw> holstein, yes but since scott-work is clearly missing the fun of release so...:(
<holstein> smartboyhw: are the links to the new release on the site?
<holstein> i cant look right now for some reason
<smartboyhw> holstein, it is on ubuntustudio.org
<holstein> smartboyhw: that should do it :)
<smartboyhw> holstein, :)
<holstein> i forgot i could change it
<holstein> smartboyhw: the release looks great!
<smartboyhw> holstein, :D
<holstein> i took my test install last night and sorted out dual head and got lost playing around on it for a hour or so
<smartboyhw> holstein, :D
<smartboyhw> ailo, you not need to worry about open week on both IRC and On Air since your session is on IRC....
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-10-20
<len-dt> holstein, just so you know. IN the case of upgrading from 12.04 to 12.10, the publishing meta will be missing and part of the photography meta will be missing. The user can add these with apt-get or synaptic.
<len-dt> holstein, there are a few (one or two) apps that we have replaced with new ones that will still be there as well. But these are minor. task-manager has been replaced with system-monitor for example. The upgraded system would have both.
<holstein> len-dt: cool... someone was upgrading earlier... i should get that on a wiki somwhere
<holstein> len-dt: i think that works fine
<Len-nb> holstein, Ja I saw that. I figured people should know what does and doesn't work. Basically the upgrade does every package already on your machine, so even extra software the user has added will be upgraded.
<holstein> i still think a fresh install is the way to go
<Len-nb> If we add the two missing metas to the desktop meta, then those will be added as well and the upgrade will be as close to the new install as possible
<Len-nb> I agree
<Len-nb> but some people....
<holstein> Len-nb: the release looks awesome though
<holstein> i feel like upgrading to it!
<Len-nb> Glad you like it.
<holstein> i like playing with it on the big rig
<Len-nb> It isn't that much different from 12.04 more polish.
<holstein> i think i actually will take the time to clean up and move things around and install it on the studio rig
<holstein> try and keep it that way, so i'll not feel like i cant install 13.x
<holstein> its gotta be easy, or i get comfortable/lazy
<Len-nb> We have almost (with the sw available) done as much for audio as we can. I would like to se us do the same for the other workflows
<holstein> and, TBH, for me, theres really nothing new in 12.10 that i need over 10.04
<holstein> ardour is the same... the plugins i use...
<holstein> Len-nb: we need some graphics and video folks
<Len-nb> Yes! but we need a platform that interests them first
<Len-nb> Then they might show up and tweak it
<holstein> true
<holstein> Len-nb: i like how the pulse JACK sink just works out of the box
<holstein> i'll want to know how to get rid of it.. but it works great
<Len-nb> I wish pulse was done a bit better.
<Len-nb> I think that when jackd starts, pulse should auto move any streams that go to the device jack uses to jack
<holstein> that would be great
<Len-nb> in fact pulse should use the same name and setup
<Len-nb> so in my case it should remain stereo instead of suround
<Len-nb> I actually set pulse not to auto connect. The bridge is there but I have a jack session that just connects two channels
<Len-nb> The two bridging modules do have a parameter for number of channels, but
<Len-nb> they can't be set when auto loaded
<Len-nb> I need to put together a proposal to set as a wish list item to drop on the pulse devs
<Len-nb> :)
<holstein> cool... i know falk has had a hard time working with them
<Len-nb> He is not the only one
<Len-nb> I would word it in such a way as to make it seem favourable to them rather than jack...
<Len-nb> But not hold my breath either
<Len-nb> 2015 I might try hacking it if the problem is still there... or anything else for that matter.
<Len-nb> A lot can happen in a few years
<holstein> yup
<holstein> might be using pulse at a resonable latency by then... or whatever its replacement might be
<Len-nb> But I should have time for more stuff then
<Len-nb> jackd 3 might have showed up
<Len-nb> ardour 4 might be beta
<Len-nb> both might be history too
<holstein> never know... i dont think ardour is going anywhere
<Len-nb> No but it depends on jackd and alsa
<Len-nb> I remember using oss and being surprised how fast alsa took over
<Len-nb> for all my computer work I am still an acoustic (mostly... and getting more so) musician
<Len-nb> I record sounds with the computer because it sounds better than tape (and is cheaper too)
<Len-nb> I have no thought of "making" music with a computer. That is why things like LMMS are foreign to me holstein 
<holstein> yeah... me too
<Len-nb> Anyway, soon as the new seeds are out and we are getting daily builds again, I will tuck LMMS in there and see if it still builds and what it does with it
<Len-nb> though our friend who liked it so much has moved on to qtracktor
<ailo> One would almost want to jump in and start developing some of those applications to include the things one thinks they are missing
<ailo> On graphics and photography related workflows, we should really communicate with the ubuntu-art team
<ailo> Probably there's people there who do video too
<drupin> ailo: where can i download and how the testing
<astraljava> drupin: What is it that you want to test?
<ailo> whoa, I thought there was an IRC echo
<ailo> Until I notices, this time I didn't answer the question
<ailo> drupin: Are asking where to download the latest Ubuntu Studio? http://ubuntustudio.org/download/
<ailo> drupin: There's no testing going on at the moment
<ailo> drupin: You're welcome to help with testing during the next development cycle, but it will be a while before there's a new ISO out
<drupin> smary boy told me lat thet it will be on 11
<drupin> smartboy
<drupin> smartboy told me that it will be on 11 oct
<ailo> drupin: Well, it's 20th Oct now. Ubuntu 12.10 was release a couple of days ago
<drupin> ok
<smartboyhw> Duh what is this guy about? Marketing..... We already not have enough human resources! ...
<smartboyhw> What do you think about this? http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=12306387&postcount=50
<holstein> ailo: you think the art team uses mac's?
<holstein> ive had quite a few messages back and forth with Jono Bacon about using US for his audio production
<ailo> holstein: No idea. But, in any case, they should be the experts on graphic workflows
<ailo> I just saw a mail about one guy wanting to join who is a photographer
<ailo> To get a good idea of video workflows, someone would need to research about it, and find some group/channel and bug them for info
<ailo> I think ubuntu-art aught be the ultimate group for asking about graphics
<ailo> Actually, why not start with their wiki pages https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Documentation
<ailo> Len-nb: ^
<ailo> Seems to have some useful info
<len-dt> ailo,  I am not sure where you are going with that. It seems to be about making art for a distro. I thought we were talking about making our graphics section work for artists.
<len-dt> That does not mean there are not similarities...
<len-dt> I guess I have never really thought about what artists we are aiming for.
<len-dt> I had not thought of creating artwork for a distro before... blind spot. But then graphics in general is for me.
<len-dt> I am realizing (as I told holstein ) that my interests are quite specialized
<ailo> len-dt: I'm merely stating that the people in ubuntu-art are more or less expert artists, most likely using Ubuntu for art, so they would be the people to ask about which tools should be included by default, and what their workflows are like
<len-dt> Ja, I realize that.
<len-dt> And as I said it is a valid use of an art distro too
<ailo> I'm not putting any focus on the art for Ubuntu, or a distro. Just art and artists in general, using Ubuntu for making graphics
 * len-dt is still just thinking a little more widely than art is some kind of image
<ailo> Ok, let me say again. The point has nothing to do with the object of what ubuntu-art is doing, but that the people there are experts on graphic applications
<ailo> Not only for ubuntu-art, but in general
<len-dt> Yes I got that
<len-dt> What I am saying is that I am an idiot when it comes to art
<ailo> I don't think there is anyone here who is much above that classification, when it comes to graphics
<len-dt> I am just starting to think beyond ya that too.
<len-dt> The first thing that occurs  to me is that does the type of desktop matter to an artist?
<ailo> Probably, like for anyone else, it's a matter of personal preference, regarding the desktop. But, the choice of applications, resources, command line tools, etc, etc
<len-dt> These are people who are more visually stimulated than I might be. I want a desktop that functions without any extra wierdness
<ailo> And what are typical workflows like? You have files, and you have applications. And then there is some kind of process from start to finish
<len-dt> Anyway, yes it would help to define what should be in the graphics meta better.
 * len-dt sometimes forgets we also offer a set of metas
<len-dt> ailo, are there any ppas (like kzstudio for example) that deals with graphics apps?
<ailo> len-dt: Not something I've ever investigated. Googling seems to only reveal PPA's with artwork in them
<ailo> If I would want to know more about it, I would just head over to ubuntu-art and introduce myself
<ailo> But, I'm not about to do that atm, anyway
<len-dt> Ja, I am thinking no more than ideas right now. I am not sure who will do the blue print this time... our leader doesn't seem to be here.
<len-dt> hmm, "Surpass Apple in the quality of the user experience."??
<len-dt> Interesting I guess I will need to get a mac so I know what Ubuntu is aiming for :)
 * len-dt thinks being able to afford the computer in the first place is part of his user experience
<astraljava> Well, yes. It helps becoming a user.
<len-dt> astraljava, I think user experience is very closely linked to what the user is used to.
<len-dt> for me either mac or win (or unity or the new gnome for that matter) I have to learn it ffirst.
<astraljava> Sure, but there's the first experience, and then the more accustomed user's regular usage.
<ailo> len-dt: holstein: astraljava: Perhaps we should have a meeting about the coming cycle? atm, I don't feel there is anything that needs special attention - even if we changed nothing, but just adressed bugs, the next release would be as good as this one. We should at least see who is going to be commited for the next cycle
<ailo> There are things cooking, that just need to be ironed out
<len-dt> ailo, ja
<ailo> astraljava: How is your schedule looking the next 6 months?
<len-dt> ailo, I will have somewhat less time than I had in the summer.
<astraljava> ailo: I'll probably not commit to anything in advance. I may fix bugs, roll a package or three, code something new, but I cannot set anything in stone.
<ailo> Well, we'll need to put together some blueprints at least. I don't think it's important to have a definite deadline on many of things we want to do.
<ailo> We should talk to Scott about if he wants to take the lead this cycle. If not, we should take over his duties until he's ready to come back
<len-dt> I would still like to see us have our own icons for anything unique to US like the menu directory files
<len-dt> I thought we had some people interested... but seems to have vanished. I do have three we can look at.
<ailo> len-dt: We should draft the blueprints somehwere. Either the wiki, or the mail list
<len-dt> mail list will get Scott's attention better than a wiki
<ailo> On the mail list, we could get more people giving ideas - more discussion
<len-dt> That too
<ailo> Ok, so if we start a thread, we just add suggestions for next cycle. Then make a blueprint out of it. I don't think it matters if all items in a blueprint are ever finished. Important thing is we have a list of things. I know what I want to do, and I expect it's like that for all of us
<len-dt> I had sort of been doing that. Not sure how much people had seen
<ailo> len-dt: Which thread was that?
<len-dt>  	Thoughts on 12.10
<len-dt> Some things are taken care of already
<len-dt> I think there may have been another message somewhere too.
<len-dt> We can start another thread. Fresh
<ailo> Yea, we need a suitable title, so people keep to the subject
<ailo> Brainstorming for 13.04, or something like that
<len-dt> Are there any postponed items from 12.10 BP we want to carry forward?
<ailo> There are lot's of them
<ailo> But, I think we should clean the old ones up a bit. 
<len-dt> I wouldn't say all...
<len-dt> Is the same catagory breakdown ok?
<len-dt> or is it best to figure out the items first?
<ailo> I think we can just bring up more items first, and then do the categorization.
<len-dt> Just reading more of the artworks stuff: "Make widgets look like they could be touched and it would feel good. "
<ailo> hmm :)
<astraljava> Hah. :)
<astraljava> But yeah, wouldn't it be great, to have a virtual mixer board on two 24" wide touch screens?
<len-dt> Or here's one: "Especially the wallpaper, as it is expected to be a new one for each release."
<astraljava> Hehehe. Where do you get this stuff?
<len-dt> The link ailo gave above or https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Documentation/Message
<len-dt> Dated 2009
<len-dt> I was thinking one of those artists tablets would make a good mix board too.
<astraljava> Ahh... ok, but then that's not Studio-specific.
<len-dt> astraljava, no ubuntu specific, but we are expected to have similar goals
<len-dt> They are not bad goals, they leave a lot of room for interpretation... which is good.
<astraljava> True, true.
<len-dt> Actually this is stuff I wish I had seen before I started helping with development as it would have helped me focus more correctly
<astraljava> Better late than never, if you still intend to do dev stuff, that is. :)
<astraljava> Whoa, managed to avoid typos, whilst staring at the telly the whole time. :)
<len-dt> I got some of it already... I was wondering why eveyone so up on OOTB for a while...
 * len-dt makes typos just because...
<astraljava> "up on out-of-the-box?" What's that?
<len-dt> as in working OOTB
<len-dt> There have been a lot of things I have found I need to do after OOTB before my system(s) work well for audio
<astraljava> Right, yeah if something could be done about that.
<ailo> I think this category should be discarded in the next blueprint https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntustudio-q-future
<ailo> The items there belong to other categories
<ailo> Just noting
<len-dt> I agree. None of them will get finished anyway.
<ailo> I'm writing a post about blueprints for next cycle. I'm doing some kind of intro, but mostly to inform non team members
<ailo> k, posted
<len-dt> Wow.
<len-dt> I think those are good. I think for blue prints some of them should be broken into smaller chunks so we can use DONE more often even for partly completed things.
<len-dt> But for discussion they are good
<len-dt> This past cycle we did a lot of work that doesn't show in the BP because it wasn't "DONE"
<len-dt> The PTB would probably like to see those accomplishments as well.
<len-dt> another reason for breaking down more is that it gives new helpers/devs more of a feeling that "I can do that much".
<ailo> Well, all of that already does exist in one way or another in the blue prints. Aside form the -controls and the panel apps
<ailo> Would be good to clean up the blueprints a bit though. Also, I think if people catch on, and want to help, either there is someone in charge of a category, or they become in charge of that category
<ailo> I mean, say documentation. I'm the lead, so I do the organizing. 
<ailo> Doesn't mean I decide everything. Just that I'm the secretary, so to speak
<ailo> If someone wants to help, I can point them to a task
<ailo> If no one is the lead of something, they have to organize it themselves
<ailo> hungry evil. Time to feed the monster
<len-dt> Ya I understood that, just that if a part of a document is listed as a separate item it can be called done even if the whole document isn't
<len-dt> So even if it starts as one document, say the video workflow, but someone does just a short part on getting video into the machine... just one step
<len-dt> we could make that a new blue print item that can be called done. This way we can keep track of parts of things that get done without waiting for the whole.
<len-dt> I don't know how flexible the BP system is. If it can have more layers than two for example.
<len-dt> If not we can use keywords for the same thing.
<ailo> len-dt: We can add sub-categories, if we want. Like: user-doc:audio
<ailo> If needed
<ailo> But, I wouldn't get too particular with that
<ailo> The important thing is whoever is wanting to do something, knows what to do
<len-dt> k
<ailo> I sent an email to Scott about next cycle btw
<ailo> Just asking him what his plans are
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-10-21
<smartboyhw> ailo, good work on the blueprints
<ailo> smartboyhw: I try to always do my best ;)
<smartboyhw> yesterday's logs are a bit difficult to consume to my brain 
<smartboyhw> ailo, so what's scott-work's view on the bluerints thing?
<ailo> smartboyhw: I haven't heard from Scott. Until he reappears, me and len-dt are taking the initiative. Just keeping things running
<ailo> If he will have little time in the future, I suggested we take over his responsibilities as project lead for this cycle, or until he is ready to come back
<smartboyhw> ailo, wow you are quite aggressive:D
<len-dt> Not really
<smartboyhw> len-dt, ok.....Just looks weird
<len-dt> We have a pretty good idea what Scott's vision for US is. and are trying to mostly maintain that
<smartboyhw> Actually I do think someone to at least take over scott-work's work for a bit..... He can't even come on 12.10 release day to approve the release. Hopefully we can find him on Monday...
<len-dt> It got done smartboyhw , not to worry. We are all volunteers and all have a real life
<len-dt> Scott does have a way of looking at the whole project overall, that I for one, lack
<ailo> Well, I don't have problems on that area, which is why I do like to organize things
<smartboyhw> len-dt, yeah. But then ailo's idea of talking over as project lead for R cycle is a bit er.......what to say?
<ailo> I didn't say we take over as project lead. Just that we handle communications and what else
<len-dt> Its nothing less than Scott has asked
<smartboyhw> ailo, len-dt fine 
 * smartboyhw wants no bothering conversations after a day of concert and physics + chemistry test revision:(
<len-dt> just trying to reassure you there are no big army boots wandering around here :)
<smartboyhw> len-dt, big army boots?
 * smartboyhw does not understand the joke
<smartboyhw> Or at least a half-joke
<ailo> smartboyhw: He's painting a picture for you
<smartboyhw> ailo, LOL
<len-dt> No big changes. or take over
<smartboyhw> Yeah
<smartboyhw> But clearly you two did the most in the 12.10 cycle....great job I lke to say:D
<len-dt> Yes, but most of what we did was based on the blue prints. We didn't work without direction.
<smartboyhw> OK but anyway bye guys I got short computer time today. ailo len-dt add oil (means to give support in Cantonese):P
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-10-14
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks, thank you for verifying the SRU.
<cub> Morning all
<smartboyhw> Hello cub, please test the RC images
* smartboyhw changed the topic of #ubuntustudio-devel to: Ubuntu Studio Development Channel | https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio | find Ubuntu Studio stable Releases at https://ubuntustudio.org/download/ | latest current ISO http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/dvd/current/ | PLEASE TEST THE 13.10 RC IMAGES
<cub> yup
<cub> will be busy at work until after lunch since I was away a couple off days last week. but then I will start up my VMboxes
<pepito_> Hello
<OvenWerks> zequence: is there any way to link blue print items in more than one blue print? I just added 4 items to 4 blueprints, but really they should all be done at the same time as one change.
<OvenWerks> In general any new application will require this. The app is added one place, settings in a second and menu changes in a third. If it applies to more than one workflow, that adds another link again.
<cub> zequence: Is there a special way I should submit a bug for the RC tests?
<cub> Or anyone else who might know
<cub> Never mind. The Swedish translation of ubuntu studio seems quite unfinished. :)
<cub> Should the Live Session reflect my time zone? It seems to show UTC which might be the default?
<OvenWerks> cub yes that is the default
<OvenWerks> It used to change to local part way through an install
<cub> good. I would prefer not to create any bugs. :P
<cub> yeah, right now I running the i386 live session first
<cub> OvenWerks: when testing "Use and execute the default applications found for the desktop enviroment being run"
<OvenWerks> :)
<cub> Do you really try every application in three?
<cub> there
<OvenWerks> I never have
<cub> he
<OvenWerks> I try to pick a few at random though
<cub> I can't run Ardour on this VMbox, never have. stupid mac.
<OvenWerks> I always try jack and make sure it starts in RT
<cub> JACK starts fine
<OvenWerks> I only have so much time
<cub> I might run both on my proper ubuntu laptop later on
<OvenWerks> Someone has put a bug in that we don't have offline docs
<OvenWerks> :P
<cub> do you know how it's done with the translations? Are there someone doing translation of Ubuntu Studio or do we piggyback on Xubuntu?
<OvenWerks> We should at least grab xubuntu's desktop (xfce) stuff
<cub> haha was that smartboyhw himself since he want to have the offline docs in there?
<OvenWerks> Well for 14.04, but this was against 12.04
<cub> OvenWerks: yeah, most of the menus were in Swedish when I tried. Not all of it and none of the US specific menus of course
<cub> oh 12.04
<OvenWerks> I think we are relying on the apps to have their own documentation
<cub> I haven't used a Swedish installation of anything since early 90s
<OvenWerks> But we would like to have something on workflows
<OvenWerks> That should be part of the workflow meta I think
<madeinkobaia> Hi all.
<madeinkobaia> cub: I sent you a design for the "youtube tutorial frame info picture". When you have the time let me know what you think of it.
<cub> Yeah I was meaning to have a look this weekend but life got in the way. :/
<madeinkobaia> :D
<madeinkobaia> No worries, I sent you also a new version that I just made
<cub> My daughter was in the hospital on Thursday so we took a family weekend.
<cub> madeinkobaia: great, I liked the look. I had some questions about an outro page but the new version might expalin that already?
<madeinkobaia> cub: Sorry to hear that, hope nothing goes to bad.
<madeinkobaia> cub: Just tell me
<cub> madeinkobaia: It was scary for a day and the ran a lot of tests and checks but everything showed she was just being healthy. So we were sent home. :)
<madeinkobaia> cub: Great : )
<madeinkobaia> cub: About the tutorial send me any questions you want by mail.
<cub> yeah absolutely
<cub> hmm when I report the tests on the RC should I log it to "Saucy Final" or "Saucy Daily"?
<madeinkobaia> cub: I can't help for that, I have an hardware problem and I still can't install the 13.10 for testing.
<cub> OvenWerks: any thought? Are we testing Saucy Daily or Saucy Final?
<cub> hmm it still requires a power plug. I have like 9 hours of battery life on my laptop come on.
<cub> Are we still reporting on the slideshow showing wrong desktop background?
<OvenWerks> cub: slide show will not get fixed for 13.10 no bug. I would put it into the saucy final if it is there.
<OvenWerks> If final allows you to put pass/fail then the last daily will be the same as final or RC.
<OvenWerks> madeinkobaia, cub: do either of you use scanners and have comments on the best scanner apps to use?
<cub> No, I haven't used mine in years but when I did it was xsane
<knome> OvenWerks, simplescan is a pretty basic tool, but worked for me when i had to scan some stuff
<cub> yes both are open for testing, so Final it is.
<zequence> Hi folks
<zequence> OvenWerks: I don't think the blueprint functionality is advanced enough for that. Why not create one workitem for the four tasks?
<knome> OvenWerks, if you file a bug that covers those four items and link it to each blueprint, marking that bug fixed marks the work items as done
<zequence> madeinkobaia: I think "tutorials" is a bit hard to see again, because of the effect
<zequence> madeinkobaia: Also, I hade the idea we could use different colors for each main subject, audio, video, graphics, etc..
<zequence> madeinkobaia: Let's just skip the word "tutorials". What do you think? It's superfluous in a sense
<zequence> madeinkobaia: Instead of "tutorials", we could have "audio, video, graphics.."
<zequence> We need to have that somewhere anyway. 
<madeinkobaia> Hi Kaj, ok I will keep in mind your interesting suggestions. 
<madeinkobaia> zequence: ^
<zequence> madeinkobaia: We need to have the subjects for the workflows, one way or another
<zequence> madeinkobaia: So, the words must be there
<zequence> madeinkobaia: But, using colors would make it much easier to spot the tutorials when searching for the topics in youtube
<zequence> So, it all makes perfect sense
<zequence> We don't need the word tutorials. It's self explanatory
<madeinkobaia> zequence: Could you send me a picture (you can edit the .xcf  sent you) and let me know what you would like ?
<zequence> madeinkobaia: I suppose you make the text in Incscape?
<madeinkobaia> zequence: I used inkscape for the main design and then added some effects on gimp.
<madeinkobaia> zequence: I can send you the inkscape file if you want
<zequence> madeinkobaia: I'm doing a preprod now, just to show you
<madeinkobaia> zequence: ok
<zequence> madeinkobaia: Ok. You have mail
<zequence> madeinkobaia: The colors are the same as on the menu icons
<zequence> I'm not 100% sure of those exact colors. So, we would need to decide that once and for all, before the release of 14.04
<OvenWerks> knome: Thankyou, I will try that.
<zequence> madeinkobaia: The placement of the CoF and the workflow category I didn't put much effort on
<madeinkobaia> zequence: I took a look, I will not change our branding color (the actual ubuntu studio blue) in the left part. But I will keep in mind the interesting suggestion to make 5 sub-section (audio, publishing etc.) with some colors attributions. Also, I would like to keep a "tutorial" text somewhere but maybe more discreetly. 
<zequence> madeinkobaia: I'd like to move forward in using those colors for the workflows, so it would make sense to use them thoroughly on the youtube covers as well. For me, clarity is the most important. Design is nice, but the first problem to solve is clear flow of information
<zequence> How you do it, is up to you
<zequence> madeinkobaia: Feel free to play with the colors, and see if you can find other ones that work better
<madeinkobaia> zequence: No worries, I will try various combinations. 
<madeinkobaia> See you all.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-10-15
<zequence> smartboyhw: Seeing Jobs face on your emails is a little strange for a FLOSS person :)
<zequence> Why not use your own face? Or something to do with FLOSS?
<zequence> Also, on G+, and other places. It's up to you of course, but to me, it doesn't seem fully appropriate
<zequence> He wasn't exactly someone who supported freedom in computing. Rather, the opposite.
<smartboyhw> zequence, can't find a better picture (and I hate putting myself)
<zequence> smartboyhw: Use anything. I took a picture of my eye, and put some effects on it.
<zequence> Draw a penguin, or something
<smartboyhw> zequence, sure, I don't know how to draw a penguin-.- (My art is crap)
<zequence> Art is not about being good at something. It's about making good choices
<zequence> It's the choice that makes it art
<zequence> I shouldn't say good choices. Just choices
<astraljava> True, wasn't it Woody Allen who said he regrets everything he's done.
<ttoine> hello
<zequence> ttoine: Hi
<zequence> ttoine: The cup that had problems with printing - has that problem been solved, do you know?
<zequence> I'd rather take it off, if not. 
<zequence> I don't think cub went through with asking for a new again
<ttoine> i will manage that in november
<ttoine> before it is not possible
<zequence> ttoine: Can't you just remove it from the shop until then?
<ttoine> ok
<zequence> ttoine: Great. I'll remove it from our merchandise page as well
<zequence> We should probably add that we are not responsible for any problems with the merchandise, and that they need to turn to spreadshirt about that
<zequence> unless of course, it's a flaw on our side
<zequence> But, I don't see how that could be in this case, right?
<ttoine> this is already in the conditions of use of spreadshirt
<ttoine> I will see if they can use vectorial stuff
<cub> Hello world
<cub> ttoine, Spreadshirt have dispatch yet another mug to me. Not arrived yet. :)
<cub> zequence, OvenWerks , any idea if the tests for Saucy Final are reset every day? All the tests I ran yesterday are gone ..:/
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-10-16
<cub> About the testing, it should be released tomorrow but I wonder if there might be another build before that?
<cub> Since I noticed that the tests I ran the day before yesterday have disappeared from the test tracker and we're back at zero.
<cub> I rather not spend a lot of time testing today if it will be overwritten tonight again ...
<astraljava> Not to sound like a nitwit, but that's not really the point of quality assurance. No matter how often the images get respun, each and every one of them ought to be thoroughly tested. We might not always know what gets changed, but something apparently does, otherwise there wouldn't be a need for them. Those changes could introduce breakage, regressions or other some such.
<cub> astraljava, I suppose, I just thought it would like the Beta 1 and Beta 2 where we got an image to test and then decide on release. But now there's two new iso's to test every day. It's hard for me to go through all the test cases properly the short time I have in the evenings.
<astraljava> cub: Sure, this was not finger-pointing at your general direction. :) Pain of contributing to hobby projects, I know this well enough.
<astraljava> For me it's always been like not having equipment when I have time, and vice versa. Being broke means I rely on generosity of friends when it comes to hardware, and now I have this laptop-slash-tablet with only 1GB of RAM. Can't test anything with it.
<cub> no I'm just wondering. This is the first release where I'm actually involved in the testing and I don't know how it's usually done
<cub> I was frustrated to take time away from my family to test for the whole evening only to have my results deleted in the morning. Felt like ... well not victory, that's for sure. :D
<astraljava> Hehe, I get that. Yeah, it
<astraljava> sorry, forget where the apostrophe is. It's a little tough this late in the cycle.
<astraljava> New images are spun all the time, usually because vanilla has something changed. But nonetheless they might affect our flavor, too, and that should be verified.
<astraljava> It's critical now, since it's the release image, earlier in the cycle it's not that bad since you can still rely on the next daily.
<knome> following #ubuntu-relase would help knowing what gets change, especially after the final freeze, since everything is gated manually to the release
<knome> but i do understand not everybody wants all that noise; i filter some of it out as well
<astraljava> Hey knome. That's good advice. Especially for QA personnel, that's the (other) place to be.
 * astraljava wonders how Nick is doing with the QA procedures and stuff.
<knome> haven't been too much involved with that (or pretty much anything FOSS-related) lately
<astraljava> Could say 'me neither', but you should know that. :)
<knome> well i've seen you around a lot more than in the months before..
<astraljava> Yes, but I haven't been involved. :)
<knome> are we nitpicking? :)
<knome> giving information counts as being involved
<astraljava> When are we not?
<astraljava> Oh ok-
<astraljava> - == .
<knome> that's what i thought, i wondered how did you manage to avoid being witty for so long
<knome> so where are you today? kallio or vallila?
<astraljava> Kallio. Need to study for the interview tomorrow.
<knome> heh.
<knome> i need to write an application today.
<knome> where are you applying to?
<astraljava> This one gaming company, they make iOS and Android games.
<knome> aha.
<astraljava> Also got another one lined up, but that's 2 weeks ahead. Time to prerare for that later.
<knome> yeah
<knome> i'd need to get to the interview first :)
<astraljava> Sure, but that will happen anytime soon.
<knome> depends.
<knome> i'm not applying for too many jobs, you know
<knome> (just can't pass this one)
<astraljava> Yes well, anyway. You've got skills to show.
<knome> i know.
<smartboyhw> WARNING: Respin in an hour
<OvenWerks> I'll see what I can do in about 8hours
 * OvenWerks is off to work...
<OvenWerks> GAA! someone just respun us.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-10-17
<Hypnotoad> knome: You can also request queuebot in the devel channel spitting out things related to your build or packageset, at least I think so anyway.
<cub> Release day?
<Noskcaj> cub, Almost release night over here
<cub> we should use that internet time. :D
<cub> great, so how do I know if it is Virtualbox on Mac that breaks JACK or if it's the latest release that's broken?
<OvenWerks> jack worked fine for me... 32 and 64 bit
<OvenWerks> da/coast
<OvenWerks> da/coast
<cub> yeah I saw you had tested already
<cub> which per our standard seems to be enough, 2/2 and 1/1.
<cub> this is weird though since I tested the i386 iso 3 days ago and had no issues starting JACK in live session. But now, on the same VM both amd64 and i386 live session, JACK crashes
<cub> Ok, so after setting up new laptop the i386 iso runs JACK fine in live session. Virtualbox on Mac, no to reliable.
<cub> on the other hand, my touchpad on the ubuntu laptop does not work in the live session.
<cub> I only have crap HW available, maybe I should just lay off the testing ...
<cub> hi smartboyhw
<smartboyhw> cub, hello, can you test the i386 upgrades?
<smartboyhw> We are only missing that...
<cub> Nope
<smartboyhw> Ouch
<cub> I tried but it keeps crashing on my virtualbox and my eee pc won't get it to work
* smartboyhw changed the topic of #ubuntustudio-devel to: Ubuntu Studio Development Channel | https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio | find Ubuntu Studio stable Releases at https://ubuntustudio.org/download/ | latest current ISO http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/dvd/current/ |
* smartboyhw changed the topic of #ubuntustudio-devel to: Ubuntu Studio Development Channel | https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio | find Ubuntu Studio stable Releases at https://ubuntustudio.org/download/ | latest current ISO http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/dvd/current/
<cub> but when I checked OvenWerks had done all tests already?
<smartboyhw> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/305/builds/55392/testcases
<smartboyhw> Isn't done
<cub> Aha perhaps I can run those.
<smartboyhw> cub, yay!
<cub> it's upgrade from 13.04? not 12.04.3?
<smartboyhw> cub, upgrade from 13.04
<smartboyhw> We don't support upgrading from 12.04.3 to 13.10 (it's too big change)
<cub> strange, when I navigate through the iso.qa site I can't find that page you linked to
<smartboyhw> Eh?
<smartboyhw> cub, ISO QA Tracker -> "Saucy Final" -> "Upgrade Ubuntu Studio i386"
<cub> aha Upgrade was filtered out with the other distros
<smartboyhw> ;)
<cub> Why is "Upgrade" considered a separate Product?
<cub> doh..my 13.04 VM was 64 bit. Need to install 32 bit first
<cub> I will most likely get the same issue with JACK as before, but I blame that on Virtualbox running under Mac OS X
<smartboyhw> cub, well, JACK on Virtualbox is terrible but it does pronounce sound here :)
<cub> It worked fine 3 days ago, but with the new iso today I got crashes on both 32 and 64 live sessions on the sam VM
<cub> but I ran a usb live session on my eee pc and it worked fine. Though I had hw issues on that pc
<smartboyhw> zequence, hmm, last time (13.04) I didn't do any release announcements, we only have the one you did....
<cub> 13.04 installation, updating 320 packages. :P
<cub> suppose I can go for lunch before I can do the 13.10 upgrade.
<smartboyhw> cub, sure
<zequence> smartboyhw: Just do what you always do. That text only needs to be copied directly to the website
<smartboyhw> zequence, ACK, OK
<zequence> I'll be doing an additional release announcement, just giving some cred to the people developing Ubuntu Studio, and talking a bit about what has been going on
<knome> Hypnotoad, might be possible, but you probably want to see the discussion as well
<smartboyhw> zequence, check out the announcement on the Ubuntu Studio website (draft)
<smartboyhw> holstein, please be ready for updating channel topics today :)
<zequence> smartboyhw: Looks good
<smartboyhw> zequence, :)
<cub> 1567 files to fetch. :P
<smartboyhw> cub, ow
<cub> the wifi dropped mid-upgrade....
<smartboyhw> cub, ew
<smartboyhw> Forget it then?
<zequence> smartboyhw: Let's fix the download page before posting the release, ok?
<smartboyhw> zequence, you want to change the download links NOW? Sure
<zequence> smartboyhw: I'll wait until the official release announcement
<smartboyhw> zequence, OK
<cub> no it seems to be alright. Must have downloaded everything just in time.
<cub> so the upgrade test is still ongoing.
<smartboyhw> cub, yay
<smartboyhw> zequence, I've updated the links on my side, just waitiing for the release
<zequence> smartboyhw: What links?
<smartboyhw> zequence, download links
<zequence> smartboyhw: Yes, but where?
<smartboyhw> zequence, well, at my computer-.-
<smartboyhw> We are supposed to wait till release right?
<zequence> smartboyhw: So, you put some links onto your computer?
<zequence> Where did you change the links, is what I'm asking
<smartboyhw> zequence, not-yet-saved  copy on the website (because it doesn't allow drafts)
<zequence> Ah, ok. Well, you want to update the wikis then too?
<zequence> I was going to do that, but it seems you are already doing it
<smartboyhw> zequence, since you were going to do the wikis, you can do the wikis:)
<zequence> smartboyhw: I was going to do the download page too
<smartboyhw> zequence, oh, OK
<smartboyhw> Will update the wiki later then
<zequence> ok, good
<cub> smartboyhw: upgrade test ok.
<smartboyhw> cub, it's released anyhow:P
<cub> bah
<smartboyhw> (Looks like)
<cub> seems all my testing for this release have been obsolete.
<smartboyhw> cub, don't feel that sad
<zequence> cub: The most common problem for me when doing upgrades is user settings
<cub> hmm yeah I didn't any of those since the 13.04 installation was clean install 
<zequence> cub: things like background for the login window being corrupted. I think the more you change settings (and they are stored in the user home folder), the more likely there are to be problems
<smartboyhw> zequence, my release announcement sent and published
<cub> hard to write a test case for that?
<zequence> cub: I think one just needs to map out all of the settings that can be changed and stored for XFCE
<zequence> but,  it's a little outside of the scope of what we do here
<zequence> so, not really what we should focus on
<zequence> smartboyhw: Ok. Great
<zequence> I'll post another release announcement later today - or it'll be more like just a letter to the public
<smartboyhw> zequence, the wiki links that I can found is changed
<zequence> smartboyhw: There are only two. wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio and help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio
<smartboyhw> zequence, then all done
<zequence> Great work everyone.
<smartboyhw> zequence, cub OvenWerks great job:)
<smartboyhw> Releases are earlier these days
<smartboyhw> 13.04 and 13.10 are no later than 15:30 UTC
<smartboyhw> Huh, only three flavours have announcements (LOL) https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2013-October/000177.html
<smartboyhw> astraljava, holstein please change topic in #ubuntustudio, we thank you for the work:)
<smartboyhw> T cycle, here we come (where's the codename:P)
<zequence> reposted in all our social channels
<smartboyhw> zequence, yay
<OvenWerks> for 14.04 I am thinking it may be worth while finding out what plugins are available for some of our main apps. (the scanning plugin for gimp may only be the tip of things)
<OvenWerks> I think we should at least include most of such things in the extra SW installer.
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks, write it in the blueprints. Great work of you in 13.10:)
<OvenWerks> but we need to know what they are first.
<zequence> OvenWerks: Currently, we don't have anyone working on any of the workflows
<OvenWerks> I will maybe tonight (think 10 hrs down the road) But it is also something that will need discusion.
<OvenWerks> I know.
 * OvenWerks is off to work
<zequence> We should find out about all the apps
<zequence> Do a thorough research all around
<cub> I was starting out to map workflows somewhat
<cub> found a couple of pages that Scott set up I think
<cub> but never got further than that so far.
<cub> perhaps I should transfer my googledoc to the ubuntu wiki instead
<cub> Hi ttoine, I think my mug have arrived. Will collect it form the Post office tonight. All in one piece I hope.
<ttoine> ok
<ttoine> tomorrow, I test ubuntu phone
<ttoine> and I will try to use it as a java app server
<zequence> cub: Scott scribbled a few things, yes, and some other folks
<zequence> cub: But, those are not really relevant for researching apps so much, I mean, not so that you could base a lot of work on those pages
<zequence> I find that Scott was focused on finding some way of simplifying the use of tools for users
<zequence> But, IMO, he went the wrong way about it
<zequence> What you need is application development for that to happen
<zequence> And User Documentation, youtube videos, which show the user how to use existing tools
<zequence> cub: Could I see what you have done so far?
<cub> yeah but a list of the apps included with some information would be nice
<cub> not much, I gathered some links you sent me and what I found on the wiki
<cub> then I brainstormed a bit
<cub> email incoming
<zequence> cub: I think the first thing you should do is find a good way to list all application that are even faintly related to our workflows
<zequence> then do some simple categorization on sub-workflows
<zequence> Like, recording, mixing, mastering, etc. 
<zequence> It's easy to do on a workflow that you know well
<zequence> If I were to do that for graphics, I'd need to learn all about graphics first, you know
<zequence> We should consider some alternatives
<cub> mhm
<cub> I put a lot of stuff I'm planning to cehck out in trello
<zequence> We could probably get all the major apps and tools to fit on the ISO
<zequence> But, someone needs to find out, if it is possible, and for that, you need to have a comprehensive list of applications
<cub> yeah
<zequence> Anyway, the first thing to do is list the applications
<zequence> All of them
<zequence> Probably smartest to use some apt magic to find them
<cub> gotta head home to the family. :) I might be around later on again.
<holstein> updated topic :)
<cub> zequence, how's the new job?
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-10-18
<smartboyhw> Trusty Tahr -- The new T codename http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1295
<ttoine> hehe
<ttoine> i am trying ubuntu-touch now
<ttoine> and one of the sysadmin of my company is trying to use it as a java app server
<cub> I image googled tahr...looks like gnu to me. :P
<smartboyhw> zequence, is it impossible for us to have a UEFI signed linux-lowlatency package?
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-10-19
<smartboyhw> zequence, just realized that the links to the mailing lists at the sidebar of the website links to ubuntu-users and ubuntu-devel instead of our own -.- Fixing
<smartboyhw> zequence, or wait, is it you and knome who only has the powers to edit it?
<zequence> smartboyhw: No, that's me. It's under  Appearence -> Widgets
<smartboyhw> OK
<madeinkobaia> Hi all.
<cub> ttoine, if you check the logs. The third mug I got still have the cropped "ubuntustudio" text. Spreadshirt haven't answered any questions on whether we need to change the template so I don't know why it's cropped.
<cub> zequence, madeinkobaia ^
<cub> I was surprised the mug made it in one piece, they package was completely smashed and teared open from the pressure. :D
<zequence> cub: Sorry to hear that :(
<zequence> Woops http://www.spreadshirt.com/ubuntustudio
<zequence> Don't think they have the legal right to do that
<cub> what the ...
<zequence> There's a lot of variants on that
<cub> ttoine is the only one who got the rights to sell merchendise with the US logo, no?
<cub> hehe and with another web address as well, hopeyougotit.com
<zequence> Yeah, I think so
<zequence> I sent ttoine an email about this
<zequence> Ah, now I see
<zequence> Well, it's a bit confusing with the urls
<zequence> ours is ubuntustudio.spreadshirt.net
<zequence> Theirs is spreadshirt.com/ubuntustudio
<zequence> I wonder what the difference is, techincally
<zequence> Anyhow, we should have a com address too, I think
<zequence> Doing a google search, all sorts of variants of the wrong shop comes uÃ¥
<zequence> I asked ttoine to remove the mug that is not working right, but it's still there, it seems
<zequence> I just hope not a lot of people are buying it
<cub> yeah, the mug looks really good otherwise but if it's not possible to get the text right ...
<madeinkobaia> cub: zequence: I don't understand how it can be a problem as the design is really basic. I gave a perfect .svg to ttoine and he managed the print process by him self. 
<cub> I think it's something going wrong in the printing process, but I haven't got any replies or feedback from Spreadshirt if there's something we can do ourselves
<madeinkobaia> I took a look on the shop...what happened ?
<cub> madeinkobaia, which one? .net or com/ubuntustudio 
<madeinkobaia> cub: ok, I was confused by the URL, I saw the .com url.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-10-20
<zequence> I'm preparing to backport ardour3 to raring -> quantal -> precise
<zequence> This error is fantastic:
<zequence> After installing, the following source dependencies are still unsatisfied:
<zequence> lv2-dev(inst 1.2.0~dfsg1-1 ! >= wanted 1.2.0)
<OvenWerks> zequence: That is beyond my know how :P
<OvenWerks> It looks like it should work to me.
<micahg> zequence: 1.2.0~dfsg is lower than 1.2.0, the dependencies should be relaxed
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-10-16
<zequence> Anyone eager to test the final release candidate?
<OvenWerk1> zequence: I have no HW available right now.
<zequence> OvenWerk1: Should be done within the hour. 
<zequence> Both isos smoke tested
<ObrienDave> daily or beta?
<zequence> OvenWerk1: Final Release Candidate
<zequence> Oops
<zequence> ObrienDave: That was meant for you
<ObrienDave> k, thanks
<ObrienDave> can i get it through the daily?
<ObrienDave> nvm, getting zsync now :)
<zequence> ObrienDave: Since it hasn't been released yet, you can only find it as a daily. This is the current release candidate http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/dvd/20141015/
<ObrienDave> that's where i'm getting it from, thanks :)
<ObrienDave> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/325/builds/81934/downloads
<ObrienDave> zsync http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/dvd/20141015/utopic-dvd-amd64.iso.zsync
<zequence> yep
<ObrienDave> i love zsync :)
<ObrienDave> strange, can't log into iso.qa.ubuntu.com using latest FireFox
<ObrienDave> chrome works no problem
<ObrienDave> vbox install worked YAY
<zequence> Oh, cool. I did both my installs on real hw
<ObrienDave> marked that as a success
<zequence> Need to do them again
<zequence> New build out. Didn't know that
<ObrienDave> ok, on to xubuntu 64 final
<ObrienDave> oops, did not see todays build. retesting full disk install
<ObrienDave> studio final iso 100% match from yesterday build
<zequence> Ok. All done. Time to snooze
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-10-17
<zequence> There may be yet another respin of the images. I won't be able to test until 8-9h from now. Something about an apt bug.
<zequence> Somehow I though there was to be a release of the rc
<zequence> This testing is for the final release it seems, so no panic in the end
<ObrienDave> sorry about my confusion on the ISO testing yesterday
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-10-12
<DalekSec> Xfce is not based on GNOME.
<OvenWerks> DalekSec: he was already gone. Personally, I think most musicians/audio users would not want goggle-anything added to studio.
<DalekSec> Yep.  And might be nice as a plugin but heh.
<erick> Hi
<erick> I have some questions again about the new Wily Werewolf.
<erick> What version of GSteamer would we get with Wily Werewolf?
<DalekSec> Dude doesn't like waiting for answers?
<DalekSec> Should be 1.6?
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-10-15
<OvenWerks> Ardour 4.3 is out  :)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-10-17
<sakrecoer_> hi! my irssi shell is revolting... but ut seems my avatar is here anyways.
<sakrecoer_> so hopefully my irclog is still stalking y'all :)
<sakrecoer_> anyways, now you know why i don't answer if you poke me. should be resolved soon. 
<sakrecoer_> wait... 2 avatar + this one.. hrm..
<sakrecoer_> oh well... the more the merrier? :D
<sakrecoer_> i made some misstake when blacklisting a bruteforcer, lol, blacklisted internet on ssh and http ::(
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-10-18
<DalekSec> https://ftp-master.debian.org/new/ardour_1:5.4.0~dfsg-1.html
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-10-19
<linuxpt2> Hello.
<linuxpt2> I spoke to another contrib late last night, user K----- they said to pop by here and speak to sakrecoer
<linuxpt2> I just wondered what kind of things this project needs help with the most?
<linuxpt2> If anyone can answer my question feel free to reply - I will be away for a few hours but will check this window when I return, many thanks.
<linuxpt2> I am back now
<eylul> hi linuxpt2, sakrecoer might be around a little later. out of curiosity what was your question?
<linuxpt2> i posted it earlier here, let me copy paste it...
<linuxpt2> 13:00] <linuxpt2> Hello. [13:02] <linuxpt2> I spoke to another contrib late last night, user K----- they said to pop by here and speak to sakrecoer [13:02] <linuxpt2> I just wondered what kind of things this project needs help with the most? [13:57] <linuxpt2> If anyone can answer my question feel free to reply - I will be away for a few hours but will check this window when I return, many thanks.
<linuxpt2> It was krytarik and we have just spoke again here via PM, he did advise me that the mailing list and contrib web pages would be worth reading so I will do that very soon
<linuxpt2> and also, he mentioned testing is needed and said the mailing list may provide more of an idea etc
<eylul> oh yeah sounds like krytarik covered most of it :)
<linuxpt2> Good to know, thanks. I'm just about to see if I can check the mailing list now.
<eylul> but yeah I would suggest stay around, in IRC and mailing list. We are a bit in a post release lull but I expect things will pick back up soon! :)
<eylul> *nods*
<linuxpt2> Yeah I will remain in this irc room for the rest of the day just in case
<eylul> linuxpt2, how familiar are you with IRC btw? 
<linuxpt2> I have used it not too much over the years to be honest, but I can get by ... just about!
<linuxpt2> What made you ask?
<eylul> linuxpt2: ok, well one thing is if you tag somebody, like I do like this. it will highlight it for the user, useful if they are alt-tabbed. :)
<linuxpt2> Ah, thanks!
<linuxpt2> I didn't want to harrass anyone directly initially haha
<eylul> :D I do forget too, but yeah it is especially useful if the person is not there, but reading the backlog. (a lot of us are using server side logging solutions to keep a backlog) :)
<eylul> nah, it is perfectly fine to tag somebody if you are trying to address them. 
<linuxpt2> Well, this is my first time here so I respect ettiquette
<eylul> :) 
<linuxpt2> I didnt want to shout people as an unknown ;o)
<eylul> that's understandable! but just letting you know it is ok. 
<linuxpt2> Thanks, I will read the ML first but may do it later just in case sakrecoer hasnt appeared or I still have a query
<eylul> *nods*
<sakrecoer> greetings linuxpt2 ! welcome :)
<sakrecoer> hi all!
<linuxpt2> Hi there
 * eylul silently sits in the room and listens in
<linuxpt2> I am just going to check out the mailing lists but generally wanted to ask what kind of things does the project need the most help with - eylul and krytarik mentioned testing is a big thing
<sakrecoer> thats great linuxpt2 ! the mailing list is a good starting point. it is sometimes slower than irc, but it has more eyes and allows for backlog in a different way
<sakrecoer> linuxpt2: what would you be comfortable with doing? like, are you into code or do you prefer things like PR?
<linuxpt2> honestly it has been years since i coded and I am aiming to relearn going forward but I think it would be the non coding tasks that would be best for me to tackle
<sakrecoer> linuxpt2: the team is small and we take any help available. at the same time, packagers is what is hardest to find it seems..
<sakrecoer> linuxpt2: cool!
<linuxpt2> If i can literally do it, i am happy to tackle it
<linuxpt2> the only reason i wouldnt try is if i knew it was beyond me
<linuxpt2> i did just type a bit about myself in pm to rylul - shall i just copy past that to you in pm so you have an idea?
<linuxpt2> eylul i meant
<sakrecoer> linuxpt2: you can learn a lot here! i'm not very technical, but i've come a long way with a litle help from the team.. long way for me anyway :)
<sakrecoer> linuxpt2: sure, if you are comfortable with i. ( the channel is logged) i am interested anyways :)
<sakrecoer> with *it
<linuxpt2> howmuch can you paste in 1 go?
<sakrecoer> ah, right... 
<sakrecoer> you could put it in pastebin and link maybe?
<sakrecoer> linuxpt2: ^
<linuxpt2> back
<sakrecoer> maybe to begin with, you could help with documentation?
<linuxpt2> i will now wipe that onlinenotepad but you can save it before i do if you want
<sakrecoer> that is something that isn't tied to a hardcoded deadline..
<sakrecoer> and it can be a fun way to explore the various applications we distribute
<sakrecoer> for me, you can wipe it linuxpt2 
<linuxpt2> i was thnking the project docs myself as i noticed a user gave it 4/10 mentioning how outdated some areas were - is it fair to say that docs are the least liked tassk that needs the most help hen?
<sakrecoer> yes, most of what we have is very old..
<sakrecoer> i don't know what the deal is with docs...
<sakrecoer> i've done very little, i wouldn't say its boring, but its hard to finish somehow...
<linuxpt2> haha docs are boring!
<linuxpt2> but often people underestimate the value of them
<linuxpt2> users always need good supporting info
<linuxpt2> i would be happy to work on documentation
<linuxpt2> and it would be a likely good fit ofr my condition
<sakrecoer> it depends how you do it... i think the main issue is what you underline: its porly rewarded, because people only reflect about the work behind it when they can't gind docs. and generaly that reflexion is limited to: huh! no doc wtf?
<linuxpt2> i appreciate products and projects with good docs
<sakrecoer> s/gind/find
<linuxpt2> my biggest gripe when i first started using linux (ubuntu) about 10 years ago ...was the docs
<linuxpt2> often you find coding wizards are never able to quite convey usage of what they make to just normal users
<sakrecoer> i,ve been thinking about this quite a lot recently in fact. if we could announce new pieces of docs better, we could gather feedback on it as well..
<linuxpt2> it is hard as when you spend all that time making it, you are often slightly blinded to seom things average users would not quite understand - eg as you are dealing with it yourself all the time so get used to it
<sakrecoer> yes, that is where more feedback would be usefull
<sakrecoer> and also it would make it more rewarding for those writing it.
<linuxpt2> ther are some great projects and great products which i use, love and respect the work that went into them a lot...but having said that some of my fave pieces of software are actaully let down by docs that just dont quite convey how to easily use said, great software.
<sakrecoer> linuxpt2: have you got a launchpad account?
<linuxpt2> and for most power users etc docs not being easy to follow isnt too bad 
<linuxpt2> but for the non power users eg the 90% of ppl - those unclear docs can be the barrier between the software getting widely used and the software being given up on by normal users
<linuxpt2> no i dont have a launch pad account yet i will make one soon
<sakrecoer> how about picking a piece of software you enjoy, that is distributed in Studio, and begin on some wiki page?
<sakrecoer> wiki page for it.. you could begin typing ut localy or however you want, and then once you have an account on launchpad we'll give you access to efit the wiki, linuxpt2 ?
<linuxpt2> sure - i will sorting out an install of studio this weekend but can you suggest a software that would be needing a wiki the most ?
<sakrecoer> it would be nice to introduce yourself on the ububtustudio-devel mailing list. doesn't need to be detailed cv, just say hello so those who aren't here also can rejoice from you reaching out to help!?
<linuxpt2> eg can you direct me to one that needs help the most?
<linuxpt2> or do they all equally need wiki help equally generally speaking?
<linuxpt2> i will intro myself on there shortly after this convo
<sakrecoer> jack and pulse are quite a mistery to many, but another one that would be valuable is how to pull in ububtustudio into another ubuntu flavour and have everything work..
<sakrecoer> both these have pages, but they are old..
<linuxpt2> cool i am dumping all this into a notepad file locally so i can form a plan
<sakrecoer> generaly, any softeÃÂ¤ware _you_ enjoy and understand diserves your take on its operation being documented.
<sakrecoer> you can also look the irc log of this channel, hold on i'l grab it for you
<linuxpt2> sounds like a plan - would these areas suit you guys for hel even if my effort is a bit hit and miss initially ? eg contributing in bits and ieces?
<linuxpt2> pieces
<linuxpt2> for help i meant
<sakrecoer> yes :) and you can't really miss. worst case scenario, someone corrects you and you learn something.
<linuxpt2> yeah sure ... i've never had much room for an ego and prefer to just always keep learning
<linuxpt2> so always happy to be corrected 
<linuxpt2> and used to it in tech
<sakrecoer> best cawe scenario, you learn something from researching to write the docs, then every one learns something, then everyone is happy and gratefull!
<linuxpt2> thanks for taking the time now to answer my query etc
<linuxpt2> true
<sakrecoer> :) thank _you_ for engaging with us!
<linuxpt2> i will leave myself in here but will go quiet now - need to see what the mailing list is all about etc and to get a laucnhpad account and do the ML intro etc
<linuxpt2> no problem
<linuxpt2> i felt quilty reading the project was in need of contribs
<linuxpt2> as i always thought ubuntu studio was a great project back when i first found it
<linuxpt2> guilty even
<linuxpt2> and i want to get back into tech etc and it seems like a great way by helping out on Ubuntu Studio
<sakrecoer> don't be affraid to poke arround; you'll come a long way with a lil patience and regard for the humans behind the irc handle
<linuxpt2> indeed
<sakrecoer> linuxpt2: me personaly, i don't believe stupid questions exist: there are only unanswered questions
<sakrecoer> good to have you arround! i look forward to read your work!
<linuxpt2> haha while i agree, this will make you wonder.... http://slash7.com/2006/12/22/vampires/
<linuxpt2> no problem and thanks for having me - i look forward to having no typos haha
<sakrecoer> haha! thats why i say 'UNanswered' question. 
<sakrecoer> answered questions comming back isn't stupid, it cease existing after the 3rd time :D
 * sakrecoer moves fingers mysteriously in front of his eyes to illustrate how to make help-vampire magicalky disapear
<sakrecoer> this said, i'm very goid at forgetting answers sometime, lol
<eylul> if something keeps getting asked, it probably means we should document it on wiki somewhere :P
<eylul> but yeah I am cautious about such articles, on one hand, I get what they are referring to, on other hand through... 
<eylul> I'd rather have people ask too many questions than too few, and feel silently confused, which in my experience, happens much more often in teams
<eylul> than the other end
<sakrecoer> yes lol, far better than moving fingers mytsteriously in front of eyes!! hahs
<sakrecoer> (documenting the answer that is)
<eylul> :D
<sakrecoer> eylul: and you are so right. not daring to ask is the worst feeling ..
<sakrecoer> one of tge worst anyway
<eylul> :)
<eylul> I know I don't like it. 
<eylul> and the problem is it keeps people from joining the group
<sakrecoer> in that sense articles like that probably can have a hard effect on people with high anticipative timidity..
<eylul> *nods*
<eylul> that's my concern. calling names, are highly unlikely to stop actual people who does this behavior from doing it (not googling being the root of the problem)
<eylul> and much more likely to further intimidate people who are already hesitant, who ARE likely to read it
 * sakrecoer nods
<sakrecoer> i'm for dinner.. been on full throttle since 8am... so i might get into powersave modecafter that.
<sakrecoer> *off
<eylul> bon apetit
<eylul> :)
<eylul> and *hug*
 * sakrecoer is euther becoming an old fart or just in pace readaption mode
<eylul> its the new job thing
<sakrecoer> ye.. :| ... its ok, cause its fun though.... :)
<sakrecoer> bye now!
 * sakrecoer hugs everyonr
<eylul> (also one thing to note is that article refers to users with excessive questions, not so much new volunteers, from what I can tell)
<linuxpt2> testing...
<sakrecoer> any news about the status with RT? The ticket is awfully quiet, but perhaps krytarik and eylul have heard something from knome?
<eylul> we'll probably nag it next week. I am not sure where we ended up. 
<krytarik> sakrecoer: Nope, not any more that is or isn't on the ticket.
<sakrecoer> i will bump it again then...
<sakrecoer> about time..
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-10-20
<eylul> re the long standing wacom saga: https://github.com/Zeioth/XFCE-Wacom-Settings
<eylul> tldr somebody is working on getting gnome settings of wacom to xfce properly, we should probably at this point contribute to this, rather than go with the initial plan of making our own thing
 * eylul 's opinion is pending testing it obviously
<linuxpt2> am i here?
<astraljava> Maybe, depends where you'd want to be.
<linuxpt2> sorry - i wasnt sure if i had been timed out - cheers now I know
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-10-21
<linuxpt2> anyone around?
<krytarik> Yarp.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-10-23
<studio-devel671> i want to contribute but how do i start?
<linuxpt2> Have I got this correct?... top posting is on the ML where people reply and just add to the convo by typing at the top when they should actually be typing under old info?
<OvenWerks> linuxpt2: yes.
<OvenWerks> in general when I reply to an email, I edit the message I am replying to and remove all excess stuff first.
<OvenWerks> I have the email client set up to preface old material with a > per line so it stands out, but others have it indented too.
<linuxpt2> Hi there, thanks for replying.
<OvenWerks> I can then put my comments under the part of the email I am actually answering.
<linuxpt2> I have been catching up with the project by reading the Srudio-dev mailing list and went back as far as oct 2015... just got to present day late last night
<OvenWerks> ouch.
<linuxpt2> indeed
<linuxpt2> but it was helpful for me to understand how things are around here etc
<linuxpt2> Do I have to use a mail client by the way to deal with the ML in future?
<OvenWerks> that is up to you. I do not see how else you would read them besides from archive.
<linuxpt2> Yeah that is what I wondered... I guess I will be dusting off Thunderbird once I get Studio installed again after all these years
<OvenWerks> even if you use a phone to read answer mail there is some kind of email client involved.
<OvenWerks> so using gmail on the web still uses an email client.
<linuxpt2> I try to use phones for non-phne tasks as little as possible.. touch screen etc is too tedious for me these days.
<OvenWerks>  :)
<linuxpt2> or maybe i am just stubborn....
<OvenWerks> smart maybe.
<linuxpt2> krytarik and Set and eylul are aware of me from when i appeared here mid week, but I do plan on posting to the ML just to introduce myself over the next few days
<OvenWerks> touched based computing is helpful to the computer manufacture first, not the user.
<OvenWerks> same with convergence... making the desktop fit a phone based OS/DE
<linuxpt2> replace the word 'user' with the phrase 'data vein to be mined' eh!
<OvenWerks> that too.
<OvenWerks> anyway, I have to go.
<linuxpt2> Thanks again.
<linuxpt2> Bye.
<OvenWerks> no problem.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2017-10-19
<krytarik> Rosco2: Hehe, I see you're editing the download page already. :P
<Rosco2> Yeah - first time
<Rosco2> Would like a 2nd set of eyes before it is published though
<Rosco2> krytarik, wasn't sure who was around :)
<krytarik> I'm generally always here - but you aren't. :P
<Rosco2> Yeah - normally just for release coordination
<krytarik> I guess we should drop the mention of 14.04 alongside then.
<Rosco2> I have put the download page to "pending review" if you would like to do a proof read for me
<Rosco2> Not sure about the mention of 14.04
<Rosco2> It is still available, but of course we don't support ity
<Rosco2> So maybe you are right.
<krytarik> Yes, and except for that part, I've already reviewed it.
<Rosco2> Excellent - I will drop that text then and press go.
<Rosco2> Can you have a read of the release post?
<Rosco2> It is just a copy of the last one, but I often make silly mistakes :P
<krytarik> Yeah, I already had a quick look at it - and it looks fine as well.
<Rosco2> Great - thanks for your help
<krytarik> Thank you as well!
<Rosco2> Do you know who normally takes care of all the other meia - facebook - google+ etc?
<Rosco2> media
<krytarik> Not quite, no.  Think maybe eylul, or cfhowlett.
<Rosco2> I thought so
<krytarik> Which is rather moot right now.
<Rosco2> I will ping them by mail and hopefully they can sort it out later
<krytarik> Uh oh, I forgot to update the support page the last time too. :P
<Rosco2> Aah - that's hidden away!
<krytarik> Pretty much yeah. :D
 * Rosco2 quickly checking for other pages
<krytarik> Can you remove the tags (!) 'news' and 'release-notes' from the release post?  Because we are using categories for this.
<Rosco2> Yeah - can do
<krytarik> Also, should we start favoring HTTPS links to the website now?
<krytarik> I'd say yes - while it isn't enforced yet.
<krytarik> Rosco2: Thanks for updating the support page too - but we should add Zesty to it still. :P
<Rosco2> Sorry - distracted my a phnecall mid-edit.
<Rosco2> GLad you are watching :-)
<krytarik> Glad you're doing most of the work. :P
<Rosco2> Do you mean https for our site, or just the links?
<krytarik> I mean when I was about to copy-paste the release post link into the topic of #ubuntustudio, I noticed - like the last time - that I have HTTP in the browser while it actually supports HTTPS and which should be preferred. :)
<Rosco2> Yes - if supported I think we should convert them all as we spot them
<Rosco2> Will - send a mail to the mailing list, write to ejlul & cfhowlett - then celebrate :)
<krytarik> "ZestyZapus 17.04" on the support page - plz to add a space. :P
<krytarik> And the old, dedicated Ubuntu Forums section appears to be archived by now (https://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=335) - so we should drop references to it sometime too - e.g. on the support page and in the sidebar.
<Rosco2> Thanks - space added
<Rosco2> I must eat know - before I faint!
<Rosco2> Will check back in a bit
<krytarik> Yep, I've just organized something too. :P
<Rosco2> I might sniff around for other potential updates later
<krytarik> I'll adapt the occurrence on the support page to the 'Multimedia Software' section on the forums instead (https://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=334)
<Rosco2> I had forgotten about that
<Rosco2> I have been meaning to look at the revamped community website too - to see if we should create something there
<Rosco2> Alan Pope blogged about it
<krytarik> Yeah.
<studio-devel504> hello... i tried to use ubuntu studio some time ago... but i wasnt experienced enough to use it... now i am studying electronic music and i wanted to know which ubuntu studio version i should install?
<krytarik> studio-devel504: I would think 'the most recent' is good for all the updated software it provides - unless someone can be bothered to backport them to earlier (LTS) releases.
<studio-devel504> ok thx.i wanted also to know if it is possible to use a programm for coding synths like vst.... i have experience with pure data and max/msp... but my dream was always to develop my own plugin/synth... i have basic knowledge about synthesis (currently additive,subtractive and fm(learning it now)) and i started to develop a plugin in reaper.... the coding language is jsfx and i wanted to know if i can contribute so
<studio-devel504> is this the best to use? Ubuntu Studio 16.04.3 LTS (Xenial Xerus)
<krytarik> Support in #ubuntustudio btw - probably more eyes there.
<studio-devel504> ok thank you
#ubuntustudio-devel 2018-10-18
<Rosco2> Hi All. Is anyone testing the ISO or planning to?
<Rosco2> I see there is a pretty serious bug when installing a second cosmic alongside a previous one which might result in a respin. 
<Rosco2> Otherwise I could make US as "ready"!
<Rosco2> Marked as ready
<Eickmeyer> Rosco2: Ha! I was getting on that right now!
<Rosco2> No problems. Extra tests are always welcome.
<Eickmeyer> If youâve marked as ready, I guess I wonât bother to mark it.
<Rosco2> You might get another chance if there is a last minute respin :-)
<Eickmeyer> Rosco2: looks like there is a blocking bug. Expect a respin: [04:38] <acheronuk> LP: #1798562
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1798562 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "After a side by side installation, resized filesystem is corrupted" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1798562
<Eickmeyer> Rosco2: A good channel to join is #ubuntu-flavors. Lots of collaboration and coordination between the flavors there.
<Eickmeyer> Great job everyone! 18.10 is a go!
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: did carla make it?
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: It did not. I have a lot more work to do on that.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: ya, just reading the release notes. So patchage should be recomended for connecting jack clients.
<OvenWerks> (in our test case)
<Eickmeyer> Yes, and should still be in the test case. That never got changed to catia or carla.
<OvenWerks> The author (of Carla) has indicated that he will spend more time on making his software easier to package.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Perfect. Then, I'll focus on Carla going forward.
<OvenWerks> he says he will release one last kxstudio ISO (I am guessing it is almost done) and then no more. He will then provide as a PPA only
<Eickmeyer> Cool. Probably the best bet for him. I'd love to get him on our team.
<OvenWerks> He will (or has) released a new jackd2 soon with the same options as jackd1 (and vice versa?)
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: not likely to happen. The ubuntu way of doing things and his differ
<OvenWerks> (aside from time presure)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2018-10-19
<sakrecoer> I have to say i feel very honored to be in the special thanks <3 :)
<sakrecoer> thank you
<sakrecoer> i suppose it's true that i have been doing a few gigs on the so called social networks, but the guidance... i suppose wish i knew more...
<sakrecoer> either way, it made my day. and i'm happy to see this beautiful thing move forward!
<sakrecoer> good work y'all!!!!
<Eickmeyer> sakrecoer: You guided me, so that's where that came from. :)
<OvenWerks> found another -controls bug... or maybe I have a crazy system.
<OvenWerks> I found I had three PA-jack bridges running and they persisted through restarting jack.
<OvenWerks> it turns out there were three copies of autojack running at the same time. So on startup it needs to see if it is already running and either kill the one(s) that are running, or die itself.
<OvenWerks> I think I like kill those that are running best.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I noticed that too.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I had been running it without that problem for months, so not sure why it showed up now.
<Eickmeyer> Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯ 
<Eickmeyer> Means we're going to need a bug report and attempt an SRU.
<Eickmeyer> Hmmm... seems to happen if stopped and restarted more than once in the same session or if Jack crashes (#shocker)
<OvenWerks> I haven't managed to crash jack yet
<Eickmeyer> To be clear, I can't do it on purpose. :p
<OvenWerks> -control sends an "are you there?" to autojack and if no answer it starts a new one. I think there is a delay in there to give it time, so maybe make the delay longer as well as sending quite on startup.
<OvenWerks> s/quite/quit/
<OvenWerks> Actually, I should learn how to set autojack to be started if not running and I try to send a dbus message to it.
<Eickmeyer> Not a bad idea. I did notice that multiple pulse processes are running in the issue you described above, which matches what I see in the patch bay, but it appears that the extraneous pulse processes are hung.
<Eickmeyer> Maybe send it a -kill somehow?
<OvenWerks> every time jack is restarted, pulse is too. that is not the trouble.
<OvenWerks> ps x shows more than one autojack running (under python3)
<Eickmeyer> Ah, I see.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2018-10-20
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Seems as though FalkTX's focus of development is Carla at this time, and I am within a razor's edge of getting the wine bridge to compile.
<Eickmeyer> He has stated that anything new related to the patchbay code goes to Carla first then the Cadence tools.
<Eickmeyer> So, Carla should replace Patchage for us since it has all of the functionality we need along with being a plugin host.
<OvenWerks> cool
 * OvenWerks is adding personal monitoring to Ardour for the past week or so. I think the internals of the sends are done. Next the monitor master. It works from the OSC ui right now... can be controled from the GUI, but not set up :)
<OvenWerks> re: -controls there is no delay at all. However, It shouldn't try to start a new daemon till -controls wants to send to it
<OvenWerks> I would have thought that by the time the user has started the GUI and switched to the audio tab... then looked to see what button to press before doing so, there would have been enough time for a ping back :P
<OvenWerks> but it is not high priority and I have been doing a fair amount of 20 minute builds which are 100% cpu on all cores. Also, full memory or some libs -controls needs being in swap may have some effect.
<OvenWerks> I am also guessing that dbus monitoring only happens once the gui scan starts because it is a GUI call back (on both sides).
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: can you confirm this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio-controls/+bug/1798927
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1798927 in ubuntustudio-controls "More than one daemon sometimes gets started with extra pulse bridges" [Undecided,New]
 * OvenWerks is not at all sure what to do about it :)
<OvenWerks> Two things I guess, a timeout and a kill any old one.
<OvenWerks> The time out should catch almost all problems and the kill all the rest.
<OvenWerks> You can confirm it first then mark it in progress :)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2018-10-21
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: fix commited. not sure if I did it right. I changed the version to 1.7 maybe it should be 1.6ubuntu1 or something for sru...
<OvenWerks> tsimonq2: ^^
<tsimonq2> If the package is native and the version is 1.7, the update should be 1.7.1.
<tsimonq2> Native packages never get "ubuntu" unless it exists in Debian and their version is also native.
<OvenWerks> tsimonq2: so I should have put 1.6.1
<OvenWerks> anyway, back to Ardour...
<tsimonq2> Yup.
<tsimonq2> OvenWerks: Need an upload? :)
<OvenWerks> yes
<OvenWerks> but I am not sure what needs to be done to get it to work with 18.10 (sru, backport, whatever)
<OvenWerks> I just fix stuff, I don't understand packaging or policy :)
<tsimonq2> No problem :)
<tsimonq2> So here's the gist of it.
<tsimonq2> Fill out a bug report using this template: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#SRU_Bug_Template
<tsimonq2> I'll nominate the fix for Bionic in Launchpad and assign you to it.
<tsimonq2> From there, get the fix, include the bug number (in the form of LP: #*******) in the changelog and push it somewhere.
<tsimonq2> I review, make sure it follows the SRU guidelines, bounce it back to you if changes are needed, fix things if they're trivial, and upload.
<tsimonq2> It then goes in the queue, a member of the SRU team reviews and if accepted, leaves a comment on the bug report. You then test, adjust bug tags and leave a comment if you think it looks good, and then it has to wait a minimum of seven days before being released.
<tsimonq2> That's it.
<OvenWerks> tsimonq2: so the fix needs to be up loaded and released for D cycle first.
<tsimonq2> Ideally, but it's an awkward point in the cycle so not mandatory.
<OvenWerks> I was going to enable our PPA builds for D but that option is not there yet :)
<OvenWerks> tsimonq2: I think this will have to wait a bit. it seems there is no way to test the fix well. (on someone elses machine besides mine)
<tsimonq2> OK.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-10-14
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: in your comment on the - no remove install media - bug, you did not indicate if the test install was to metal or a virtual setup. The remove media message seems to show up in the virtual case where it is not needed, but not on a hw install. so if it worked on a hw install, great fixed! otherwise... probably still broken
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: It was a hardware install, so definitely fixed.
<OvenWerks> great! I think I saw a similar report for xubuntu as well
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Well, it seems that Ubuntu proper and Ubuntu MATE are affected, so there are likely to be more spins.
<wonko> The use of globals in autojack makes me sad
<wonko> I don't think I want to address that right now, however
<OvenWerks> wonko: the idea of giving each call the whole list has it's drawbacks too.
<wonko> That's what classes are for. :)
<OvenWerks> wonko: however, it is a good idea to keep each commit to small spaces
<OvenWerks> hmm small changes maybe?
<wonko> not just commit, but block of work. I'm trying to maintain the scope of just adding configparser support and nothing else (and maybe cleaning up some formatting/PEP8 nonsense as I go along)
<OvenWerks> maybe so the pep stuff first
<OvenWerks> that way the next change is just that
<OvenWerks> That is get any formatting changes over with in one commit before doing anything else
<OvenWerks> it makes the diff a lot easier to read
<wonko> Yeah, that probably would have been best. PyCharm does all the heavy lifting though so maybe if I do a quick branch to update that and merge the changes into configparser we'll get a more accurate showing of changes
<studiobot> <teward001> heheh fun fact about Pycharm
<studiobot> <teward001> you can make many commits :P
<studiobot> <teward001> if it has git integration ;)
<studiobot> <teward001> so when you're done iwth say formatting, you just commit *that*
<studiobot> <teward001> then you make more changes, then commit *those*
<studiobot> <teward001> *uses PyCharm religiously for major Python projects*
<studiobot> <teward001> ... you can do all this manually too but :P
<studiobot> <teward001> anyways I digress :)  *lurks*
<wonko> teward001: It's not just commits though (and yes, I hit the commit checkmark button *constantly* in PyCharm)
<wonko> It's trying to keep the scope of the change in control
<wonko> this branch is for adding configparser support, so it should really only have commits related to that
<studiobot> <teward001> ah.  well i'd still fix formatting things *first* ;)
<studiobot> <teward001> but i digress
<wonko> right, which is what we were just talking about. I'll do a separate branch to handle that
<wonko> then merge it into my configparser branch to get back on track with scope
<wonko> Also I'm going to start calling you jayztwocents now Mr. I Digress. :-P
<studiobot> <teward001> lol
<studiobot> <teward001> be glad you caught me when i'm caffeinated
<OvenWerks> of course from my POV it is "break" formatiing first. Python formatting is  :P
<studiobot> <teward001> Erich has seen me when i have NO caffeine, and can attest to the evil there :)
<wonko> OvenWerks: python formatting is worse than that. It's one of the things that kept me from Python in the first place and it's something I still hate.
<teward> ... though tsimonq2 can be equally well aware of my evil uncaffeinated state :P
<wonko> OvenWerks: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio-controls/+git/ubuntustudio-controls/+merge/374098
<wonko> Nothing should have changed, but I'd like you to eyeball this real quick just to make sure it looks ok before we merge it.
<studiobot> <teward001> erm
<studiobot> <teward001> why is `.idea` not in your gitignore?
<wonko> it is
<studiobot> <teward001> then your git is broken
<studiobot> <teward001> because it included .idea/codeStyles/* and such
<studiobot> <teward001> in the diff
<wonko> oh crap, I commited before adding the .gitignore. Let me clean tha tup
<studiobot> <teward001> .idea/.gitignore (+3/-0)  .idea/codeStyles/codeStyleConfig.xml (+5/-0)  .idea/inspectionProfiles/profiles_settings.xml (+5/-0)  .idea/misc.xml (+7/-0)  .idea/modules.xml (+8/-0)  .idea/ubuntustudio-controls.iml (+11/-0)  .idea/vcs.xml (+6/-0)
<studiobot> <teward001> that's the stuff that was still included :P
<studiobot> <teward001> NACK on the diff as is, because BadFilesIncluded
<wonko> yeah, PyCharm added that before I added the gitignore
<OvenWerks> wonko: it looks like you would like to do a reset?
<studiobot> <teward001> yeah i'd start the diffset over again
<wonko> Yeah, let me nuke and start over. Didn't actaully spend effort coding, so it's not hard. :)
<OvenWerks> wonko: it doesn't look like you starting at where master is now?
<wonko> it was a branch of master, so it had better be
<OvenWerks> Yup
<OvenWerks> Sorry I was looking at configparser from last week
<studiobot> <teward001> ah, right, that's why it lets me reject the proposal... I forgot taht Erick added me to the Ubuntu Studio Dev team, and my Core Dev status also gets me in the team.  Was wondering why LP let me do that xD
<studiobot> <teward001> Erich*
<Eickmeyer> Because reasons.
<studiobot> <teward001> lol
<studiobot> <teward001> true.  This said, i forgot that that gives me elevated access xD
<Eickmeyer> smdh
<studiobot> <teward001> ... well Core Dev would've gotten me that too
<OvenWerks> left over from zequence a lot of it.
<Eickmeyer> ^
<Eickmeyer> I'm STILL cleaning up his mess.
<studiobot> <teward001> OvenWerks: I hope you don't mind me stepping in and ursurping the requested review on the merge proposal because of the cruft in it xD
<studiobot> <teward001> i usually don't like doing that but in *this case*... :)
<wonko> I'm all for it
<wonko> catch my nonsense, please. :)
<studiobot> <teward001> that's what Erich told me to do when he added me to the dev team xD
<OvenWerks> not a problem... I am waiting for the dust to settle before I do anything more at all
<OvenWerks> @teward001 FYI, none of these changes are for this cycle (should be obvious) but for next cycle.
<wonko> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio-controls/+git/ubuntustudio-controls/+merge/374100
<wonko> that should be better
<studiobot> <teward001> OvenWerks: Yep!
<studiobot> <teward001> we're waaaay past the point of getting things in :P
<studiobot> <teward001> eww those subprocess.run calls could use some `shlex` refactoring >.<
<studiobot> <teward001> just saying :P
<studiobot> <teward001> wonko: as a pythoner, LGTM, but it's up to OvenWerks to ack the merge :P
<studiobot> <teward001> i just step in to deny things when it makes sense to xD
<studiobot> <teward001> BRB work meeting.
<wonko> teward and his ban hammer
<teward> lol
<teward> you asked for the review ;)
<teward> *returns to work*
<wonko> https://i.redd.it/iy4iri8m63r21.jpg <-- actual picture of teward
<OvenWerks> have no idea what he means by "subprocess.run calls could use some `shlex` 
<OvenWerks>                    refactoring"
<OvenWerks> getting the things to work was already painful. They all used to be single string commands sent to bash or sh.
<OvenWerks> (which just worked)
<teward> OvenWerks: the way it's currently split into bits in the array can be done as a single string passed to `shlex.split(...)` but that's for later consideration :)
<teward> just things about how SP calls are in there tahat irk me ;)
<teward> but not critical :)
<OvenWerks> what is SP calls?
<teward> SP = subprocess
<teward> subprocess.run(["command", "here", "with", "args"]) == subprocess.run(shlex.split("command here with args"))
<teward> i'm just picky and annoyingly so :P
<teward> but as i said
<teward> not critical nor does it really need refactoring to be Good 2 Go
<OvenWerks> That would mean making the string first so same difference.
<teward> but the no-op PEP8 changes look good as is to me :)
<teward> but again, that one's not my call :)
<OvenWerks> So long it still runs is all I care
<teward> ... jeez my boss is late to the meeting xD
<OvenWerks> Thats what bosses are for
<OvenWerks> (making the little people wait...)
<wonko> OvenWerks: I pushed those to files to /usr/bin on my machine and everything is working as expected (un-surprisingly)
<wonko> s/to/two/
<OvenWerks> So this is now before config parser?
<wonko> yes
<wonko> this is without config parser changes
<wonko> this is just formatting changes branch
<wonko> so that should be good for a merge as far as I know
<wonko> teward: Also, this is why I don't like doing straight merges to master. You caught a mistake. Merge request system FTW. :)
<OvenWerks> Ya I think so
<OvenWerks> probably for mere formatting changes a changelog entry was not needed. But leave it in anyway.
<wonko> Probably, but it seemed like the right thing to do
<OvenWerks> Ok so how do I merge (online)? Or do I just clone and merge offline?
<wonko> I've never used launchpad before, so I don't really know, but there should be a way for you to approve the merge
<wonko> and then there should be a way for you or I to apply the merge within launchpad itself.
<wonko> I can click on the pencil next to Needs review and get the list of options, maybe that's where you do it?
<wonko> not gonna lie, launchpad is hella janky and I don't like it. :)
<OvenWerks> I can't find it... and the command they give doesn't work either... give me a minute or two. I am used to working with the PR method...
<wonko> This is a PR
<wonko> just with a different name
<wonko> https://imgur.com/kCPGDrk.png
<wonko> There, where it says Status
<wonko> I think that's where you change it?
 * wonko dreams of gitlab
<OvenWerks> Actually I should be able to just switch to the remote branch
<wonko> don't do it outside of the merge system, that defeats the purpose. :)
<wonko> Ok, it shows as approved
<wonko> but now I'm not sure what to do.
<OvenWerks> It says merged
<OvenWerks> I had to do a pull first so My system knew of the new branch, then I could do checkout branch
<OvenWerks> merge and push
<wonko> hmm, ok
<wonko> like I said. Hella Janky. :)
<OvenWerks> so if you look at: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio-controls/+git/ubuntustudio-controls/+ref/master
<OvenWerks> under recent commits?
<OvenWerks> it says merged from branch....
<wonko> yeah, guess it does some behind the scenes tracking
<wonko> ok, at least we know how that works now
<OvenWerks> So yu can remove that branch now.
<wonko> deleted
<OvenWerks> is configparser finished now or does it need redoing?
<wonko> I need to merge the new master into it and finish up the work on autojack
<OvenWerks> ok
<wonko> Ok, master merged into configparser branch, now, where was I? :)
<wonko> OvenWerks: don't know if you know the answer to this or not, but in get_dev_info() is that usb variable supposed to be the global one?
<OvenWerks> wonko: no
<OvenWerks> in get dev info I think it is about if that device is a usb device
<wonko> The use of global variable names as local variable names is really, really bad. :(
<OvenWerks> I would have to look... but not right now, the friendly mail lady just dropped off a 1394a PCIe board so I am part way through shutting down... back in a bit
<wonko> no rush
<wonko> just verifying what I was pretty sure I already knew
<wonko> Ugh, not I'm not sure if I overwrote local variables or not. I should probably go back and start over. bleh.
<wonko> Ok, I'm back to before I started today. And looking at this code again with the new vision of poor variable naming I have to say I'm surprised this shit works at all. :)
<studiobot> <teward001> REWRITE ALL THE THINGS! :P
<OvenWerks> wonko:  there is that
<OvenWerks> wonko one step at a time.
<wonko> So, I don't use globals often. If you declare something global in one spot but not about what happens? The one function is using pulse_in etc without declaring it global.
<OvenWerks> Ya, There are some things like that which need fixing
<OvenWerks> python has this thing where if you read a variable that has not been set in scope it looks in higher scopes. However, if you write to it, it becomes local.
<OvenWerks>  Fun, yes?
<wonko> Yeah, fun. Totally the word I'd use. ð¤£
<OvenWerks> In my last pass through things, I did add a number of "global <varname>" lines, but obviously not all. You are fixing this for a large part with config which stores most of the globals anyway.
<wonko> Yeah, I just need to make sure I don't use that where it shouldn't be
<OvenWerks> So I have three items... at least one of them does not work but I do not know which item it is :P
<wonko> Ok, I think I've found all occurences of local variables that shadow globals and have renamed them with a l_ prefix.
<wonko> which should keep me from squishing them (which, as it turns out, I totally was)
<wonko> OvenWerks: I have a question about this: https://gist.github.com/bhechinger/f8b4468234411fcd6f11ca2c0412561b
<wonko> I don't remember seeing that in controls. What really should I be doing here?
<wonko> Yeah, checking master, in controls it was this: https://gist.github.com/bhechinger/f13b718aa2057b743b9debfa5a60b59c
<wonko> And right there is the danger in having the same code copied all over. :)
<OvenWerks> that is an error which should be fixed to read dev = "0,0,0" because it should be a string
<wonko> but which is right?
<wonko> setting that to 0,0,0 or not?
<wonko> because it goes both ways
<wonko> controls doesn't change it to 0,0,0 if it's set to default and autojack does
<OvenWerks> auto jack has to because it has to be a device we can get from parsing /proc/asound
<OvenWerks> controls wants to show "default" to the user... so they know they havn't change it from whatever the value was we tried.
<wonko> ah, ok, that makes sense
<wonko> thanks
<OvenWerks> but in any case they are both strings
<wonko> yet another anomaly to deal with. :)
<wonko> yeah, that not having quotes was my next question but you already answered that. :)
<wonko> Another thing I noticed. In reconfig() there is this:
<wonko>         if pulse == "True":
<wonko>             connect_pa()
<wonko> but pulse won't normally get set to true
<OvenWerks> wonko it would be ok to deal with it by using one varialbe for the config value and another for the massaged value or do the change at the point it is used.
<wonko> so, uhm, what?
<wonko> OvenWerks: I think it makes sense to do like we're doing with zdev. It only matters in the scope of the internals of autojack, so let's do the needful there if we need to.
<OvenWerks> pulse should be a string "True" as it is read from the config.
<OvenWerks> it is not a bool
<wonko> except that is legacy config that shouldn't exist anymore
<wonko> that gets converted into PULSE-IN/PULSE-OUT = 0/1
<OvenWerks> do we set it close by?
<wonko> it's only set if reading in the config sees PULSE, which it turns into those other two and then doesn't write PULSE back out
<OvenWerks> that looks like an error
<OvenWerks> I assume you mean autojack line 348
<wonko> yes
<OvenWerks> That will have to be changed... or reused
<OvenWerks> I would suggest reusing it
<wonko> set it to true if either PULSE-IN or PULSE-OUT aren't 0?
<OvenWerks> yes
<wonko> ok, i'll tweak that then
<OvenWerks> also when we add naming it will have see that neither pulse_in or pulse_out are [].
<wonko> right
<OvenWerks> which may work out to bool of sorts.
<wonko>         if def_config['PULSE-IN'] == "0" && def_config['PULSE-OUT'] == "0":
<wonko>             pulse = "False"
<wonko> uh, and
<wonko> not &&
<wonko> :-D
<OvenWerks> sure so long as it is already is True
<wonko> Yes, true is the default
<OvenWerks> That way, only the one call really needs to know what pulse_in/out are.
<OvenWerks> I want to change the config call so we only do it once. Is there a way to copy/rename the current config.* to oldconfig.*?
<wonko> That should be possible, yes
<wonko> but let's not change stuff like that just yet
<wonko> because I need to make sure I don't break things as it is. :)
<wonko> which isn't easy with this code
<OvenWerks> ya :) just thinking out loud
<wonko> At this point I can't promise I didn't break anything. ;)
<OvenWerks> This is a good time to break things
<OvenWerks> I normally start autojack from the commandline and add print() statements in many places to check things are doing what I think they should be when testing.
<wonko> Ok, so I think I managed to do this without breaking things. Maybe. :)
<wonko> Do you have a set of regression tests you use? Or is it just seat of the pants sort of stuff?
<wonko> Ok, well it explodes immediately. I'll fix that. :)
<wonko> Ok, explosion fixed
<wonko> it doesn't create the pa bridges though
<wonko> so that's the next thing to deal with, but that's for tomorrow
<wonko> code is checked in if you want to poke at it yourself
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-10-15
<wonko> Is there a way to send a dbus message that'll trigger msg_cb_new? There appears to be a bug in it, but it's hard to check because I need to wait for it to happen
<wonko> Oh, I think I got it
<wonko> JACK was getting set to False and not starting
<wonko> so tweaked that and now it's good
<wonko> It's all pushed up
<wonko> and as far as I can currently tell (unless an error pops up while it's running) it should be good to go.
<wonko> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio-controls/+git/ubuntustudio-controls/+merge/374143
<wonko> We can start tracking stuff here
<OvenWerks> wonko: I didn't get a chance to pull it yesterday, will do so now.
<wonko> No worries
<wonko> Merge request in
<wonko> Think I got everything sorted
<OvenWerks> autojack line 304 looks wrong.
<wonko> Ok, I'll take a look when I get home in a few
<OvenWerks> I will look further too.
<OvenWerks> I am not sure if it is a mistake from before.
<OvenWerks> Ok I know what and why that line does what it does...
<OvenWerks> It compares the PID using the capture device to the PID using playback device and if they are the same... then jack owns it.
<OvenWerks> This may not be strictly true and it may be better in the long run to actually check if that PID belongs to jackdbus.
<OvenWerks> In this context it probably doesn't matter or is a good test anyway. If some other program is using it other than jack... we should probably leave it alone rather than killing the pid (someone's project?) and starting zita-ajbridge :)
<wonko> Yeah, that's not a line I touched so I'm claiming not my problem> :)
<OvenWerks> I have found some other things... likely my own logic and have made some changes. I am now looking through connect_pa and wondering where my head was that day...
<OvenWerks> but there were some places where we were not replacing the old config with the new soon enough :P so I have fixed that.
<OvenWerks> The layout of device is in notes.txt in the main directory, but is not clear enough for someone else to understand well and I am thinking it should be right in the autojack file.
<wonko> Let's not get too ahead of ourselves
<wonko> is a re-write something to be seriously considered?
<wonko> if so we should definitely plan that out
<OvenWerks> I would like a c++ like struct for each device so I could do device.name device.is_usb device.sub_no device.sub(1).name device.sub(1).has_play etc.
<OvenWerks> I supose I could have global name = 0 global is_usb =1 etc :P
<OvenWerks> but an object would be much nicer and much more readable.
<OvenWerks> even enums would be better... lets rewrite in c++ :)
<OvenWerks> we could use waf to build it... Eickmeyer would like that :)
<wonko> I'm down for C++ or Go or whatever. I really dislike Python. :)
<OvenWerks> packaging anything that needs compiling is at a whole other level. it means learning autobuild or something so it can be multi arch.
<OvenWerks> It would mean we can use fltk instead of gtk.... which does mean not having to worry about gtk 4 when it shows up.
<OvenWerks> That is how we lost GCDMaster.
<wonko> I do DevOps for a living. autobuild is my thing. :)
<wonko> Of course I'd have to learn whatever janky shit Launchpad uses, but that shouldn't be so bad.
<OvenWerks> The other part of c++ vs python is that are likely to be people around who can maintain python in the Studio dev group, c++ is less certain
<wonko> I do totally get that point. I just don't like it. It seems like an artifical limitation
<wonko> "Write it in whatever language you like, as long as it's Python"
<wonko> sounds Ford-ish. :)
<OvenWerks> wonko: in some ways I would like to make controls more generic to work outside of ubuntu as well, but I have looked at what Cadence had to do to make it generic... more if statements than I want to think about.
<wonko> The joys of cross-distro
<OvenWerks> wonko: any time one deals with system stuff it gets that way.
<wonko> Yeah, but it's worse in the Linux world than anywhere else.
<OvenWerks> is there anything else?
<wonko> That people use on their desktops other than Windows, OSX or Linux? Yes.
<wonko> Large market share? Nope.
<OvenWerks> windows is just that example you get with the computer so it looks like it works, its meant to be removed before the computer is actually used.
<wonko> hahahahahaha. That++
<OvenWerks> OSX? out of my price range, maybe corperations can afford that stuff, not me.
<wonko> But the point I was making is, to be truly cross-compatible (ignoring windows for the time being) you have to port to 3 or 4 versions of unix and like 47 versions of linux.
<OvenWerks> yup.
<wonko> It's frustrating to me because what is the point? Why muddy the waters just because you think things belong somewhere else?
<wonko> Anyway, enough of that. :)
<OvenWerks> well there is systemd and initv, upstart has gone.
<wonko> Which is unfortunate
<wonko> I liked it a lot better than systemd
<OvenWerks> systemd is pretty standard these days
<wonko> that doesn't make it not horrible
<OvenWerks> anyone who uses an init v system is not going to use controls anyway, cause they have their own script in sh (not bash)
<wonko> heh
<OvenWerks> (its called slackware)
<OvenWerks> Anyway, for now I am going to make things work. connect_pa() looks wrong to me. I think it has been working because my system is sane with my thinking.
<wonko> co-worker tried to get me to run slackware a couple years ago. Two days of that was enough for me.
<OvenWerks> The configparser branch is a mess... I may compress it.
<OvenWerks> (once it is working)
 * OvenWerks ran slackware for over 10 years from 1995 till mid 2000s
<wonko> yeah, I recommend rebasing it down to a single commit
<wonko> Old me would have loved slackware. New me has better things to do with his time.
<wonko> I was on Solaris back then. :)
<OvenWerks> I still like a lot about fvwm
<wonko> I'm an OpenLook kinda guy
<wonko> Although I did use fvwm for a long while after switching away from Solaris
<wonko> Anyway, no more talking until you've reviewed and approved the merge request. :)
<OvenWerks> My main thing is A) the window with focus should be obvious... like a whole different contrasting colour. B) the window handles should be easy to find and grab
<wonko> I'm all for A. I never know which window is active in xfce. :)
<OvenWerks> That is the first thing I change.
<OvenWerks> gnome is worse... they take away the title bar.
<wonko> I stuck with gnome for a while when installing 18.04
<wonko> but then I remembered xfce was better. :)
<wonko> While you do that I'm going to beat my face into kubernetes
<OvenWerks> wonko, Eickmeyer: with regard to policy for controls, right now whichever device the user chooses for pulse to connect it's outputs to is used as the input to connect to pulse as well. I am thinking that probably this shouold not be true.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Agreed. It's an OK default, but to have an option to connect the outputs to a different device as inputs isn't a bad idea.
<OvenWerks> The gui lists it as output device so the user would not expect inputs to follow.
<OvenWerks> I thnk for now I will set input to system capture
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: but yes in future they will be totally separate... I can't change that now though because the config option is not there yet :)
<OvenWerks> The main reason for letting the outputs be settable is that the user probably has only one set of physical outputs connected to amp and speakers. So the sound shouold always go there from pulse regardless of what else is set up
<OvenWerks> So if the user selects their usb mic as system, the output can remain through internal speakers/phones
<OvenWerks> wonko: I have looked through the code and made some changes (mostly to my own code) but I can't test it just now as I am not at the right computer.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Understood.
<OvenWerks> It will be probably another 3 hours before I can do that after the Yf leaves for work.
<wonko> Yf?
<wonko> No worries, I've got things to do. Like my job and stuff. ð¤£
<OvenWerks> something with xdev is not working
<OvenWerks> changing other internal devices and hitting apply (reconfig) does not change that. But if I then change the usb bridge setting and reconfig, then the xdev setting is picked up and of course restart jack works too.
<OvenWerks> Hmm line 312 in autojack
<OvenWerks> Fixed.
<OvenWerks> ewyuck...
<OvenWerks> my logic is weird
<wonko> Yes
<wonko> :-P
<OvenWerks> wonko: in config chnage we really should be doing oldconfig as a save of the old and writing the new config to config.
<OvenWerks> in reconfig
<OvenWerks> that is
<wonko> Yeah, I wanted to do that but I felt it better to leave it alone for now
<wonko> You should be able to do oldconfig = config and then instantiate a new config.
<OvenWerks> can we do a oldconfig = config, get config?
<OvenWerks> How hard is it to copy the whole config?
<OvenWerks> wonko: either i need to change it now or I have to make a bunch of old_param things to make it work.
<OvenWerks> if I add the first internal audio device as an XDEV it works, but if I add any other it doesn't
<wonko> We should be able to but I'll need to look at the code.
<wonko> Xdev is probably wonky as hell if I'm guessing right 
<wonko> This is where it would be nice if the config file supported complex data so we could just store a list instead of this back and forth to a string nonsense
<OvenWerks> Actually it is the pulse_in/out as well
<OvenWerks> or it will be.
<OvenWerks> The problem is that I have to have both the old and new, but at the same time have set the main to the new.
<OvenWerks> because we call other bits that read config.
<OvenWerks> wonko: does the config handle more than one line with the same name? like:
<OvenWerks> xdev=0,0,0
<OvenWerks> xdev=2,1,0
<OvenWerks> or will it just save the last one?
<wonko> I don't believe it does that nicely
<wonko> Never tried. :-)
<OvenWerks> probably just save the last one.
<OvenWerks> I figured it out
<wonko> I know you hate the idea but what about json or yaml for the config file? Would make us spend less time chasing our tails.
<OvenWerks> we could split it each time...
<OvenWerks> or not use the config parser...
<OvenWerks> The proper way is probably to split it each time we use it.
<wonko> I had considered switch to that
<wonko> All let's do it
<wonko> So*
<OvenWerks> I really have too much time helping people fix tings already without have them send me a config file in paste that is a pain to read.
<OvenWerks> but if I can old_dev_config = dev_config and still read all the params that would work fine.
<OvenWerks> That would get rid of all the param=newparam as well
<OvenWerks> oldconfig = config doesn't seem to work
<wonko> This is where python gets weird for me
<wonko> That's an object so is that a pointer or a copy?
<OvenWerks> it probably needs to be a copy
<wonko> https://docs.python.org/3/library/copy.html
<wonko> You'll be wanting that then
<wonko> Or a real language. Your choice. :-P
<OvenWerks> I hate python docs.. allmost every one of them does not have just a few examples of anything.
<wonko> Or they have examples that make no sense
<wonko> And no explanation as to what is going on
<OvenWerks> nope, those don't work either (copy deepcopy)
<OvenWerks> those work for lists, not objects
<OvenWerks> wonko: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/23416370/manually-building-a-deep-copy-of-a-configparser-in-python-2-7
<OvenWerks> all the answers say the same thing, save the original config as a string then read that string in as if it was a file to the copy...
<wonko> Oh FFS
<OvenWerks> And... they are python2 so look up what I do to do the same in 3
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-10-16
<wonko> C++ it is. 8-)
<OvenWerks> Huh, completely different than python 2 (and easier) create a new configparser then new_config.read_dict(config)
<OvenWerks> and new_config is now the old config
<wonko> oh, slick!
<OvenWerks> Never did find an example... or what the parameters were supposed to be... try this that and the other till it works
<wonko> That's programming in python!
<wonko> Don't even get me started on the vmware module for python.
<OvenWerks> wonko: git is not so fun
<OvenWerks> I squashed as much of your commits as I could... then added my stuff on top and some how it shows yours on top of what I did
<OvenWerks> I try again
<OvenWerks> wonko: ok done
<OvenWerks> umm, when working remotely and you remove the remote branch... remove the local branch too. pull to your local master then recreate your local branch and start working. Rebase was interesting
<OvenWerks> Anyway it looks ok I think...
<wonko> I'd say go for it then. I've been running the stuff out of my changes installed to the system. I'll upgrade to what you push to master.
<OvenWerks> you probably want to do a git reset --hard to dcbbd7f761a9efb38d21adc444ae50d046cf6d5a
<OvenWerks> then pull
<OvenWerks> that should get rid of anything that is out of order etc.
<OvenWerks> if you need to go back farther... pick ec3dd8efae2f64563dffe3c27abe8d873adb88c4 which is last release
<Eickmeyer> You guys broke something.
<OvenWerks> cool
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: where do we try to do something with notes.txt?
<Eickmeyer> I'm looking into it.
<Eickmeyer> Ok, it's part of the dh_installdocs script. Did you remove that file?
<OvenWerks> yes, the info is now a part of the source where it belongs
<Eickmeyer> Hmmm....
<Eickmeyer> Lemme try a local build.
<OvenWerks> I can't find that script
<Eickmeyer> Ok, so... dh_installdocs is part of debhelper. It expects a notes.txt in the root directory, so I would put it back as it puts it into  usr/share/docs automatically.
<Eickmeyer> All deb packages are expected to have a notes.txt as a release notes type thing.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: ^
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: well I should put something more appropriate in the file then :)
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, that's what I would do.
<Eickmeyer> As soon as I created a dummy notes.txt it built just fine.
<OvenWerks> That file being there was a fluke, I used it to put some notes in about the format of a list/structure... I no longer need it so I removed it :P
<Eickmeyer> Gotcha.
<OvenWerks> Trying again.
<Eickmeyer> Ok.
<OvenWerks> didn't fail.
<Eickmeyer> Sweet. That's all it needed.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I was a bit wrong, that file isn't actually needed (though, I do like it). It's called by debian/docs
<Eickmeyer> (based my info on an outdated version of debhelper)
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: well if it doesn't publish for lack of it, it is not hard to put in. It is OTOH one more thing to maintain...
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Ok, completely up to you. Either way, the file to edit is debian/docs.
<OvenWerks> I would guess it is easier reading than changelog
<OvenWerks> and it is done now so why remove it?
<OvenWerks> at some point after the next cycles changes are in, we need to redo the man page, internal help and README
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Yeah, good idea.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-10-17
<wonko> OvenWerks: there is one small bug I'd like to figure out yet but it's hard to debug because it depends on a dbus message. Technically I know what the issue is, but I just don't know the right way to handle it.
<wonko> If JACK == False at startup last_master never gets set to anything
<wonko> so we get this: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/269jNZmgZD/
<wonko> We bail out of config_start() pretty early if JACK == False
<wonko> That may just be an issue with controls not setting it correctly though, I'll look into that real quick
<wonko> I mean, a quick look doesn't show there being an issue there
<wonko> well, no, I take that back
<wonko> autojack starts before controls at session start, so that's not guaranteed
<wonko> But on the other hand, it *is* set to True in my config file, so maybe it's a race condition?
<OvenWerks> The place to set that, if it needs to be set, is in config_start.
<wonko> yes, but if JACK is set to False it never gets set
<wonko> Is there a legitimate case where JACK == Falsed and msg_cb_new needs to actually do something?
<wonko> otherwise we should just have it also check JACK and not run the rest if False
<wonko> oh, that might be old log messages, but it's still a thing either way.
<wonko> Hmm, now I want to write a prometheus exporter for the studio bits. Hmmmmmmm.
<OvenWerks> I don't think so, All of those things only make sense if jack is running
<OvenWerks> Yes the callbacks for device detection, new and removed, should check that jack is actually running.
<OvenWerks> That sounds like a thinko on my part. IT has gone un-noticed because I aways run jack and because anything those callbacks do will fail without doing anything too bad
<OvenWerks>  (I think)
<OvenWerks> Actually, this could be more robust if aside from checking if jack we check that the pid I store still exists
<OvenWerks> wonko: are you making changes to autojack ? If not I could fix up some of these things otherwise I will wait. (fixing merges when two people are working on the same file is not fun)
<Eickmeyer> Well done, everyone: http://ubuntustudio.org/2019/10/ubuntu-studio-19-10-released/
<OvenWerks> Cool!
<wonko> OvenWerks: I'm not doing anything right now. Just happened to look at the log file and remembered that was a thingv
<OvenWerks> I will look at it then and fix...
<wonko> groovy. I've been playing with Go, Grafana and Prometheus today. Having more fun than I probably should with this: https://imgur.com/fa909U1.png
<wonko> :)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-10-18
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: FYI - http://www.ovenwerks.net/paste/kernel.txt
 * OvenWerks also wonders what the difference is...
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Did you explain that USB requires that buffer be 128*3?
<OvenWerks> The conversation makes it clear they are trying to monitor through the DSP and need low latency.
<OvenWerks> however, the main point is that one kernel works and another doesn't.
<OvenWerks> https://liquorix.net/
<Eickmeyer> Ok, well, I don't see any solution from our perspective. The kernel team would have to modify the configs, or accept a MP from us on the existing lowlatency config.
<OvenWerks> This is actually maintained by one of the xubuntu devs ;)
<Eickmeyer> brb
<OvenWerks> (or at least is mirrored by)
<OvenWerks> Anywy, I am also not sure if we should try changing our lowlat kernel or merely be ready to mention "other" possibilities.
<wonko> I should give it a go and see what happens
<wonko> It's only 5.2 currently it seems (if that really matters)
<OvenWerks> So long as it works with your HW that should be ok.
<wonko> I don't see why it wouldn't. 5.0 worked
<wonko> ok, reboot time. :)
<OvenWerks> right.
<OvenWerks>  one of the great lines one their web page is: "Tunes the kernel for responsiveness at the cost of throughput and power usage"
<wonko> I wonder what that actually means. ð
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: certainly we have not kept the lowlatency kernel up to date with the newer kernels
<OvenWerks> wonko: low latency != speed
<wonko> I understand that
<wonko> But I wonder what they do to achieve that
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I recently went over the config, and it's still quite sane and not much different from the default one. The lowlatency kernel is now maintained by the Ubuntu Kernel team, not us.
<Eickmeyer> Though, I know they'll accept any sane MP we throw at them.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: yes they maintain it... effectively for us but the config started here.
<Eickmeyer> Might be good to compare the liquorix kernel's config file to the lowlatency one and see if we can simply bring-in that config and see if we can merge request it into the lowlatency kernel.
<Eickmeyer> Who's the Xubuntu dev that is involved?
<wonko> Ugh, it didn't set grub correctly and booted into lowlatency instead
<OvenWerks> Maybe not anymore, his web page no longer points at it.
<wonko> so, that's a fail. :)
<Eickmeyer> Ok.
<Eickmeyer> Who *was* it then?
<OvenWerks>  it was unit193
<Eickmeyer> Oh!
<Eickmeyer> Well, we already have a relationship with him, might be worth talking to him.
<Eickmeyer> teward: ping
<OvenWerks> if you look at the "Debian Prerequisites:" on https://liquorix.net/ and scroll through... it still shows his site as a mirror
<Eickmeyer> I see.
<wonko> that should have put something in /etc/grub.d/ right?
<wonko> that's how grub works these days?
<OvenWerks> you would probably have to look in the sub menu
<wonko> I........ don't know what that means. :)
<OvenWerks> right under the lowlatency entry (or generic if you have one there is another entry... I don't remember what it is called) that when select gives another menu
<wonko> There was advanced options and custom I think were the two other options
<OvenWerks> advanced options I think.
<wonko> You would think a kernel installing itself would make a grub boot option though, no?
<OvenWerks> no.
<wonko> This thing is such a hassle to reboot. Ugh.
<OvenWerks> What is the kernel actually called?
<wonko> vmlinuz-5.2.0-21.2-liquorix-amd64
<OvenWerks> with ls -l /boot what date does it show for that kernel?
<wonko> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root  8939392 Oct 17 19:12 vmlinuz-5.2.0-21.2-liquorix-amd64
<wonko> it's smaller. I wonder what they've cut out then?
<OvenWerks> hard to know. Maybe some of the non-free blobs?
<OvenWerks> (wifi, nvidia, etc.)
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: That kernel may not be great for graphics, or video... in fact the low latency kernel may not be the best either
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I think we should be adding the generic kernel to installer
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Yeah, and possibly the seed.
<wonko> Ok, I don't think I'm going to mess with that right now. I've got things to actually do other than wait for my computer to reboot. :)
<OvenWerks>  :)
<OvenWerks> wonko: new upload, last_master gets initialized for first start (to "") and device detection doesn't try to do anythinig if jack is False
<OvenWerks> wonko: the GUI is different as well but can mostly be ignored. It still works but there are some new bits that do nothing right now.
<wonko> ok, i'll click on them a lot and complain to you that they don't do anything. :)
<wonko> in the configparser branch, right?
<OvenWerks> in master
<wonko> have you merged configparser yet?
<OvenWerks> configparser is finished/ready for delete
<wonko> groovy
<wonko> gui doesn't look any different to me. :)
<OvenWerks> did you put it in the right place?
<OvenWerks> usr/share/ubuntustudio-controls/ubuntustudio-controls.glade has to be put in it's place
<wonko> oh right, I forgot that part
<wonko> I was just copying usr/bin/* to /usr/bin/
<wonko> WHY DOESN'T CHECKBUTTON DO ANYTHING?!?!?!?! YOU'RE TERRIBLE AT THIS!!!!!!!!one!!!!!
<wonko> :D
<OvenWerks> Actually I just removed that...
<OvenWerks> Now it works ;)
<OvenWerks> wonko: I have left the top part for now but my intent is to have two sides, inputs and outputs with the left being inputs and the right being outputs.
<wonko> I definitely like the layout changes
<wonko> the tabs make it less cluttered
<wonko> yeah, that would be a nice change
<OvenWerks> the top will have a drop down (on each side) with the list of bridges plus the bottom one will be "Add Bridge"
<wonko> also, no more jack getting restarted since i started using the configparser version (with your changes to that)
<wonko> so that's happy times
<OvenWerks> then there will be a name slot to set the name
<OvenWerks> then a connect to slot
<OvenWerks> wonko: I am not sure if I should allow a number of channels or not... but whtever
<wonko> We'll figure it out. :)
<OvenWerks> I want to do something similar for "Extra Devices"
<OvenWerks> Probably not connections though
<OvenWerks> I want to have a USB device blacklist for things like webcams
<teward> Eickmeyer: ERR:bronchitis
<teward> Is the ping urgent?
<Eickmeyer> teward: Nah, it was a general discussion.
<teward> Ah.  Context?
<Eickmeyer> Scrolling...
<teward> Since i just napped for 7 hours I am actually half sane lol
<Eickmeyer> teward: It had to do with changing the config in the lowlatency kernel. Mostly merge requests and what-not.
<teward> Ah.  All kernel config changes have to go through the Kernel team
<Eickmeyer> That's what I thought.
<teward> Because thats their realm
<teward> They need to spotcheck, etc
<teward> Test
<teward> The whole shebang
<Eickmeyer> Yeah. We used to directly maintain the lowlatency kernel directly, aiui. 
<teward> I wouldnt want to make any config changes default either without their input as well
<Eickmeyer> Right.
<Eickmeyer> It would be to more closely match the Liquorix kernel since that does a better job of handling audio. If we did that, we'd also seed the generic kernel.
<teward> This is why I lurk #ubuntu-kernel lol
<Eickmeyer> I also lurk there.
<teward> Eickmeyer: i would wonder the diff between the existing kernel and the Liquorix kernel.
<Eickmeyer> teward: Yeah, that's something I'd need to research.
<teward> Also consider that AIUI all kernels get Main and Security coverage so it is a larger discussion
<teward> About support for multiple seeded kernels, etc.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: ping
<teward> @Eickmeyer: if the config changes for lowlatency make sense I think Kernel team would be more than happy to work with you to get them in.
<Eickmeyer> teward: Right. I'll have to check the diffs.
<teward> I think that it would be a NACK on shipping more than one kernel base version tho
<teward> My thoughts nothing to substantiate rho
<teward> Tho*
<teward> Darn phone...
<Eickmeyer> Well, it's always the same kernel base version as generic, so that shouldn't be an issue.
<teward> I meant if you went and asked them to also ship Liquorix just for Studio ;)
<teward> But yes otherwise the base is still the Generic that is already maintained by Kernel.
<Eickmeyer> No, I wouldn't want to do that. I'd want to take their config and figure out the diff for our existing lowlatency kernel and figure out what makes the most sense.
<teward> Unrelated I have been floored for 3 days >.<  bronchitis is evil
<teward> Had to use PTO...
<Eickmeyer> Dude, bronchitis is from Hell itself.
<teward> Pneumonia is worse
<Eickmeyer> That's true. Pneumonia knocked me on my back a couple years ago.
<teward> As long as the bronchitis doesnt evolve into lower respiratory hell i will be fine
<Eickmeyer> Yeah. Typically it doesn't, but that would definitely be bad.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-10-19
<Eickmeyer> teward: How are you feeling?
<studiobot> <teward001> bleh
<Eickmeyer> teward: If you feel like doing some security stuff / spinning-up a staging server: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-studio-devel/2019-October/009228.html
<studiobot> <teward001> upper respiratory symptoms are reduced now.
<Eickmeyer> @teward001: That's good.
<studiobot> <teward001> but the sinus congestion isn't
<Eickmeyer> @teward001: OK, well, I need to get going, but I wanted to give you that information that we were sent this morning.
<studiobot> <teward001> pharmacist sold me sudafed so that'll help torch my nose
<studiobot> <teward001> i'll take a look
<Eickmeyer> Seems as though the theme is ready, but yeah, needs some security once/twice over.
<studiobot> <teward001> Eickmeyer: Yeah, I'll run a staging server but once i'm *well* lol
<studiobot> <teward001> can't do crap whiel still ill
<studiobot> <teward001> while*
<Eickmeyer> @teward001 No worries. Just whenever you can.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: pong back... sorry I wasn't around yesterday.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: No worries, just might have a looksee at what teward wrote concerining lowlatency merges.
<OvenWerks> nothing new really.
<teward> ^ that
<teward> nothing i said is really 'new'
<teward> :P
<OvenWerks> I am not really a kernel person, but understand security is more important than performance
<OvenWerks> (for any given deffinition of performance)
<Eickmeyer> Yep.
<OvenWerks> teward: The reason for both lowlatency and generic is that for video and graphics work, the generic kernel might well be considered to have better "performance" while for audio work, the lowlatency kernel "performs" better.
<studiobot> <teward001> right
<studiobot> <teward001> my only concern was the comparision of the config options
<studiobot> <teward001> and if any of them introduce any major security concerns for the Kernel team that's all
<studiobot> <teward001> i don't have any objections to adjusting the configs that lowlatency ships
<studiobot> <teward001> i'm just asking it gets a further review for security concerns by the kernel smart people )
<studiobot> <teward001> :) *
<OvenWerks> if any of the tweaks in liquorix remove some of the security updates of the last two years for example, that is no good. There are different kernels one might use for offline only machines that would not be safe in something connected to the net. I think in any Ubuntu flavour, the assumption must be that the machine will be on line for good portions of it's life/use. So even in a studio, the 
<OvenWerks> kernel must be secure.
<studiobot> <teward001> right
<studiobot> <teward001> but I also think SEcurity would NACK the inclusion of two separate 'base kernel' versions
<studiobot> <teward001> that's all :)
<OvenWerks> That would be ok with me
<OvenWerks> our installer (or any other) can always a second kernel.
<OvenWerks> The differences can be documentd.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-10-20
<x7i7l> Hi Ubuntu Studio developers
<x7i7l> I am writing to encourage you to include Airwindows VST in upcoming releases
<x7i7l> They are really useful, overlooked audio tools
<x7i7l> http://www.airwindows.com/
<Eickmeyer> ^ Closed source, only for Windows and Mac, therefore impossible.
