#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-10-25
<ScottL> holstein, now i think it's time for a meeting about the website :)
<holstein> ScottL: cool
<holstein> yeah
<holstein> looks like we got a lot of themes to choose from 
<holstein> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/TaskWebRevamp
<holstein> and others right
<holstein> ?
<ScottL> well, just two "themes" on the web revamp wiki page really
<ScottL> but they have really gotten much better
<paultag> hey all
<paultag> I hope all are doing well :)
<rlameiro> hey everyone
<rlameiro> scott-work: not at uds?
<scott-work> rlameiro: no :(
<scott-work> i had a slim chance of managing to go to UDS but alas, too many things needed to line up for it to happen
<scott-work> next year i will make one of the UDS's
<scott-work> my wife wants me to get sponsored for the next one, which i presume will be in europe if the historical schedule holds
<scott-work> that way we can buy her plane ticket and she can go as well
<scott-work> she's only flown once before (with me to go to texas tech university) and she's never been out of the state, much less the united states
<rlameiro> ok
<rlameiro> maybe we can meet in Europe next uds :D
<scott-work> that would be awesome!
<rlameiro> it depends where it is, and when
<scott-work> there are many people i would like to finally shake hands with...you, luke, emmet
<scott-work> maybe even falktx and janne, alessio (both of them!)
<rlameiro> well, maybe we could do some JAM session :D
<scott-work> yeah, jcastro and jono always seem to do something (usually some metallica) when they get together at the UDS
<rlameiro> :D
<rlameiro> next uds will be in may I asume
<rlameiro> it will be a little hard if it overlays on top of my students exams, but maybe it can be don
 * rlameiro back to writing.....
<scott-work> oh, rlameiro, i was thinking this morning of various things and people and you were one of them!
<scott-work> have you happened to make any progress on ubuntustudio-controls by chance?
<rlameiro> that is a point that needs deeps discussion :D
<rlameiro> since most of ubuntustudio controls functionallity is fading away, we should think if it should remain or not
<rlameiro> and if it remains in wich sense
<rlameiro> for instance, will it become on some sort of "HUB" or just a little tool
<rlameiro> I was thinking on something like KXStudio 
<rlameiro> A place to config plugin folders, add ppas etc
<rlameiro> since consolekit that much of the config isnt needed anymore
<rlameiro> For me the "hub" aproach seems to be the way we should do it.
<rlameiro> have a central app that will link to the comunity, to FAQs, to how to, etc
<rlameiro> also it could embed a webpage on it detailing workflows etc
<scott-work> i'm not sure that i agree that most the functionality is fading away
<scott-work> and you are right that more discussion is needed (or at least desired)
<scott-work> my opinion is that just because ardour wants unlimited memlock, a user might not be able to afford that (memory wise) and would need to adjust it still
<scott-work> additionally, i would like to see that ubuntu studio PPA where any kernels are available be listed in studio-controls along with any backports-testing ppa
<scott-work> you have ideas, i have ideas, others most likely have ideas as well, hopefully we can find a compatible union between them all and implement it
<scott-work> or them
<rlameiro> yeap, exactly
<rlameiro> but as the only controls functionality lasting is the memlock.
<scott-work> and i think raw1394 as well, no?
<rlameiro> scott-work: there are some technical decissions that need to be made for this
<scott-work> for memlock?
<rlameiro> scott-work: no, with the new firewire stack
<rlameiro> about tech decissions are, how will it be implemented
<rlameiro> in GTK or QT?
<scott-work> http://www.ffado.org/?q=node/1316
<scott-work> do you mean this?
<rlameiro> will it be wrong to implement it in Qt? since we already ship qjackctl i dont see why not use QT.
<rlameiro> or should it be GTK to be on line with other ubuntu implementations?
<rlameiro> if it is in Qt, we can "use" some help from Falktx for example
<rlameiro> or even RNCBC (i can try to pull him in)
<scott-work> i'm not sure what you mean by "how will it be implemented" since i don't use firewire
<scott-work> since you are mentioning gtk or qt then i am assuming something with a dialouge box
<rlameiro> scott-work: I am talking about the controls, not FW :D
<rlameiro> i tested firewire in the 10.10 and it worked out of the box
<rlameiro> it maybe only my card maybe... dont know
<rlameiro> scott-work: to clarify, i was talking about the technical choices on the ubuntustudio controls development. because that will choose who can help, for instance
<rlameiro> http://video.ubuntu.com/live/
<TheMuso> Did anybody find out what Sebo wanted from me?
<TheMuso> Sebboh even
<grantsmith> hi.. does Studio 10.10 have gscanbus, for configuring the MAudio firewire solo ? And if so, is it compiled against libgtk2 ?
<AutoStatic> Don't know
<AutoStatic> I don't use gscanbus
<AutoStatic> I think it's deprecated regarding FireWire soundcards
<AutoStatic> ffado-test and ffado-diag do all the magic
<grantsmith> oh, interesting. Thanks I'll research that.
<AutoStatic> You're welcome. Those tools are in the ffado-tools package
<grantsmith> so is ffado a replacement to freebob ?
<grantsmith> never mind. thanks google :]
<scott-work> holstein: are you around?
<scott-work> abogani: have you heard anything from UKT or JFo about getting the -lowlatency kernel into natty?
<paultag> morning scott-work :)
<scott-work> hia paultag !
<paultag> scott-work, how's life? :)
<scott-work> how are you doing?
<scott-work> paultag: been real, real busy lately  :/
<paultag> scott-work, well, thanks -- I was up late last night doing *nothing*, it was the worst, but I've got my coffee, and doing just fine :)
<paultag> scott-work, awww. Anything I can help with, or is it all meatspace stuff?
<scott-work> non-ubuntu studio stuff unofrtunately
<paultag> Shucks
<scott-work> lol
<paultag> :)
<scott-work> i started updating the seeds for natty this weekend but haven't finished yet, but with UDS going on i don't think it's a big rush anyways
<paultag> scott-work, nah
<scott-work> i doubt than per.sia or the.muso will have time to review it before the weekend
<paultag> mmm
<paultag> scott-work, is it just the ubuntustudio-meta package?
<paultag> scott-work, I've been working on metapackages with germinate lately ( Might try and upload a fluxbox metapackage )
<scott-work> paultag: no, it's far more than that
<paultag> OK, cool. Then I'm useless :)
<scott-work> i'll be updating video and graphic seeds, removing the audio seed and then adding audio-common, recording, and generation seeds
<paultag> Oh jeez
<scott-work> the idea to two fold: give the user more control over the audio applications installed and also clear out the cruft of packages installed
<paultag> mmhum :)
<scott-work> i've spent weeks working through things and then documenting the steps i want/need to take, and even then i've overlooked some stuff :P
<scott-work> i can only imagine how this would have gone had i gone in blindly
<paultag> +1
<scott-work> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Sandbox#Seeds%20Update
<scott-work> that's my working notes
<paultag> scott-work, sweet.
<scott-work> and i will need to also update the -meta package to make a transition package for the deprecated audio seed
<scott-work>  
<scott-work> although, i did think of something
<scott-work> i was going to talk with astraljava about a backports testing PPA
<scott-work> the idea would be to create a PPA that ubuntu studio devs use to make backport packages and test them
<paultag> scott-work, should be easy enough :)
<scott-work> then we can alert the official backports persons know about them to get them into the official backports repositories
<paultag> scott-work, +1, solid idea
<paultag> scott-work, I can help with backporting, if you need more hands
<scott-work> it's really only in the gestation phase at this moment
<scott-work> i was hoping that astraljava would pounce on it as well :)
<paultag> scott-work, just putting the offer on the table :)
<astraljava> scott-work: Hi.
<scott-work> absolutely paultag, the help would be appreciated
<scott-work> hi astraljava 
<scott-work> i don't know if we want to backport applications for every release or just for the lts version
<scott-work> i was thinking just the LTS for the time being, which is fortuitous since the last release *was* the LTS release ;)
<astraljava> Right, works for me.
<scott-work> astraljava: do you think you could identify some of the applications from maverick that would be good in lucid ?
<astraljava> scott-work: Absolutely.
<scott-work> later this week i can make the ppa (or someone else within ubuntustudio-dev in launchpad can)
<astraljava> scott-work: I can do that too.
<scott-work> and anyone who wants to help (including you paultag!) can help
<paultag> :P
<scott-work> astraljava:  per.sia mentioned that we should focus this ppa on testing backports...so we might call it "backports-testing" or something simiilar
<paultag> are we thinking bug reports after the list is all set?
<astraljava> scott-work: Gotcha.
<scott-work> paultag: yes, we would want to file bugs to get the backports done properly
<scott-work> we can do them now, or later when the backport is tested
<astraljava> I think the normal procedure is to file the bug once you have two testers report already.
<paultag> against ubuntu studio?
<paultag> I was just thinking logistics for people to prepare stuff for studio testing
<holstein> scott-work: hey
<holstein> i was busy for a bit there
<scott-work> paultag:  i think it backport bugs have general been filed against ubuntu for any particular package
<scott-work> you might add ubuntu studio as "Also affect project" however ,but that may not be necessary
<scott-work> especially if we are the ones spearheading the backports
<scott-work>  
<scott-work> holstein: would you like to help organizing the website meeting and some other odds and ends
<scott-work>  
<scott-work> oh, astraljava and paultag, i would defintely be available to help with testing for backports
<astraljava> scott-work: Noted, but I will most likely send a message to the lists anyway when a package is uploaded. Will let you know separately here, too.
<paultag> scott-work, cheers
<scott-work> i've read that shuttleworth is changing ubuntu desktop away from gnome to unity
<scott-work> http://blogs.computerworld.com/17224/ubuntu_changes_its_desktop_from_gnome_to_unity
<scott-work> i wonder how much truth is in this and how it will affect ubuntu studio
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-10-26
<crimsun> ScottL: it's true for the case that everything works
<holstein> ScottL: im in
<holstein> sorry i got kinda busy
<holstein> which is great actually
<holstein> seems like buisness has been slow for a couple years now
<holstein> and starting to get back to normal
<holstein> BUT, im into whatever
<holstein> ScottL: you want to pick a day for a site meeting?
<holstein> for voting and what-not?
<ScottL> holstein, i was actually hoping you would help pick the day for the meeting
<ScottL> and maybe send out a few emails and post at ubuntu forums as well
<holstein> ScottL: i can do that
<holstein> when you say ubuntu forums
<holstein> you mean studio specific ones?
 * holstein not a big forum user actually
<holstein> ScottL: is november 10th to late?
<holstein> i was thinking i would try and instigate monthly meetings
<holstein> the 2nd wednesday of the month
<holstein> we could go for the first mondays though
<holstein> and that would be sooner
<holstein> november 1st
<holstein> ScottL: i found the forums :)
<abogani> ScottL: No but I'm working on it on these days.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-10-27
<abogani> astraljava: ping
 * abogani waves
<abogani> Sorry for stupid question :)
<abogani> Feedbacks are welcome, feedback are welcome or feedback is welcome?
<abogani> Maybe I need of a double coffee cup
<astraljava> abogani: pong
<astraljava> feedback _is_ welcome
<abogani> astraljava: Thanks!
<astraljava> abogani: Glad to be of assistance. :D
<holstein> http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/Ubuntu-1104-to-switch-to-Unity-desktop/?kc=rss
<holstein> what are we going to do about that?
<holstein> i guess i should try loading up some of the studio software in unity
<holstein> see about the work-flow
<Narwhal_Gym_Sock> @holstein, this part is of concern to me:
<Narwhal_Gym_Sock> "Users interested in Unity will need hardware that is modern enough to handle 3D-based graphics. Users running Ubuntu on older machines will still have to switch to the GNOME interface with its 2D graphics."
<Narwhal_Gym_Sock> Perhaps a switch to XFCE or LXDE is worth seriously considering?
<astraljava> Narwhal_Gym_Sock: That is seriously bad news I wasn't aware of. Damnit!
<crimsun> I don't think the Unity workflow is particularly conducive to Studio work.
<crimsun> also, it's as a plugin for Compiz
<TheMuso> I just posted to the dev list about this. Studio can stick with the traditional panel interface if it so chooses. Just because Ubuntu is chanigng, doesn't mean studio has to.
<TheMuso> The panel interface will be staying around for thsoe who don't have capable hardware, at least for now, so studio's default desktop can stay right where it is, if the project devs choose to do so.
<scott-work> just to second TheMusoi thought that i read somewhere (jono's blog?)
<scott-work> argh...hit return
<scott-work> just to second TheMuso's point, i thought i read somewhere (jono's blog?) that the conventional gnome desktop (as we know it) can be installed as an alternate
<scott-work> to unity
<scott-work> my choice of "alternate" is not to imply a relationship with the alternate installation disc
<astraljava> Oh, I do hope we'd stick to traditional, but let's hear other opinions.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-10-28
<stochastic> re: Unity decision, does anyone know if Gnome-Shell would be an option?  After playing with it recently, I am fond of it.  Unity is nice on a netbook, but I don't think it should be adopted to Ubuntu Studio.  If all three were options (gnome-shell, unity, and gnome-vanilla) I'd pick gnome-shell at this instant.
<ScottL> ultimately we may need to decide considering the quantity of work required contrasted by who is available to perform the work
<abogani> ScottL: Amen
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-10-29
<rlameiro> good evening /morning
<rlameiro> anyone can explain the audio session in UDS????
<rlameiro> they talk in point 1, 2 , etc
<rlameiro> but we dont see the slide.....
<rlameiro> ScottL: ping
<ScottL> hi paultag, are you still working on flubuntu, or fubuntu, or fluxbuntu?
<ScottL> holstein, are you around?
<paultag> ScottL, hey
<paultag> ScottL, yeah -- fluxbuntu is totally different, but fubuntu or flubuntu ( whatever it's going to be called ) -- yeah. I hope to have the seeds happy soon
<paultag> erm scott-upstairs I guess :)
<scott-upstairs> lol yeah :)
<paultag> scott-upstairs, https://launchpad.net/~paultag/+archive/fubuntu  <-- testing packages
<scott-upstairs> but that is sweet, and possibly good timing with all the concerns about GNOME and unity ;)
<paultag> scott-upstairs, it installs great and looks OK. Needs some work, I think I'm going to shoot for O cycle
<paultag> scott-upstairs, oooh, good point
<scott-upstairs> fustudio
<scott-upstairs> lol
<paultag> scott-upstairs, I think I'll finish getting it happy this weekend
<paultag> scott-upstairs, hahahahaha yes :)
<scott-upstairs> paultag, how difficult was it to replace GNOME with flux ?
<scott-upstairs> just removing the GNOME-desktop (or whatever it was) and adding the flux stuff?
<paultag> scott-upstairs, I installed from minimal to test -- I've honestly never tried removing gnome and installing flux. My guess is you have to install flux, then remove gnome-desktop so it only removes what it needs to
<paultag> scott-upstairs, otherwise you'll be removing / installing xorg ( and friends )
<paultag> I should come up with a migration script eventually
<scott-upstairs> hrmm, that might make it difficult to build the ISO then, but kubuntu and xubuntu are doing it, maybe i should try to contact someone from their camp about it
<paultag> :)
<scott-upstairs> i doubt that i'd convince per.sia or the.muso about it, but it might be fun to replace gnome-desktop with flux in the seeds and build an ISO for one day a month during a build cycle....just to see what it would be like :P
<paultag> hehehe
<paultag> that would be fun :)
<paultag> BBL, wine tasting time :)
<scott-upstairs> ohhh, enjoy :)
<TheMuso> scott-upstairs: if we really wanted to, we could carry flux as an alternative desktop on the disks, assuming we have the space.
<scott-upstairs> hi TheMuso :)  that is a really good idea
<scott-upstairs> considering we currently use 1.7 gigs of a DVD i don't think that would be a problem either ;)
<TheMuso> No.
<TheMuso> And we can abstract the seed files such that any apps we want on both desktops can be in a common file, so the main desktop files for each desktop variant only contain packages that are specific to that desktop.
<TheMuso> WHich makes maintenance easier.
<scott-upstairs> oh, which helps me understand the purpose of the desktop and desktop-common seeds
<scott-upstairs> i had been idly and passively wondering about that, without devoting any cycles to it really
<scott-upstairs> this could be a really good idea :)
<TheMuso> The only issue is handling the desktop choice at install time...
<scott-upstairs> could that be a task and use tasksel
<scott-upstairs> ?
<scott-upstairs> is it possible to have multiple tasksel pages?  one for audio/graphic/video packages and another for desktop preference?
<TheMuso> No.
<TheMuso> It certainly could be a task, but its hard to indicate that the users need to choose one desktop.
<TheMuso> What we could do, is show both desktops, ahve the GNOME desktop selected by default, but provide the alternative desktop, and indicate something the lines of being less resource intensive, or some other.
<TheMuso> Anyway, afk.
<holstein> scott-upstairs: ping
 * holstein +1 on flubuntu-studio :)
<ScottL> i'll be right back holstein , with family downstairs for a few minutes
<holstein> ScottL: i might miss you
<holstein> i gotta run in a bit
<holstein> BUT ill catch up with you soon
<holstein> i got a couple days off finally :)
<scott-upstairs> okay holstein, i'm back upstairs if you are still there
<holstein> scott-upstairs: yeah, i gotta run
<holstein> im going to reply to your email
<holstein> and get in the car...
<holstein> im going to ask you on the list if those packages being removed are still in the repos
<holstein> so if someone needs one, maybe they wont freak out about it
 * holstein thinks maybe audacity should stay
<holstein> althought i havent used audacity in a long time
<holstein> BBL...
<ScottL> i sent out an email and posted to the forums about the new packages selection in natty, i hope the users respond
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-10-30
<scott-upstairs> holstein, actually audacity will be there if anyone installs video
<scott-upstairs> i know that seems counterintuitive, but...
<scott-upstairs> if someone is making a movie and needs to edit sound, say for a menu, or for a soundtrack
<scott-upstairs> or even to edit a sound effect
<holstein> ScottL: yeah
<holstein> i like that actually
<holstein> audacity in the video meta-package
<ScottL> holstein, it seemed more appropriate, but if there is enough desire from users, say enough to make a workflow ;), then it certainly can be put back into one of the audio seeds
<holstein> ScottL: i dont think it has a place in a pro audio workflow personally
<holstein> but, i know lots of new folk use it
<holstein> and podcasters
<holstein> for simple editing
<holstein> just pulling in a stereo track and cutting it up
<holstein> works great
<holstein> and easy
<holstein> no JACK required
<ScottL> i wanted to create a podcasting workflow and gave it quite a bit of thought, but didn't come up with a complete one, at least with applications direct from the archives
<ScottL> i've been thinking about this too, however
<holstein> ScottL: ardour would be ideal
<holstein> its really just the JACK set-up
<ScottL> i was thinking about trying to get Ubuntu Studio merchandise created (this is not a new idea)
<holstein> ScottL: totally
<holstein> great idea
<ScottL> and using the proceeds to perhaps fund getting a developer to make mumble jack aware
<ScottL> incidentally this could fund other directions that ubuntu studio would like to go
<holstein> ScottL: i like that
<holstein> put it toward whatever development is needed at the time
 * holstein gotta run
<holstein> BBL
<ScottL> but, this is not a unilateral decision for me to make, i expect to need to clear the use of "ubuntu" and perhaps "studio" as well
<ScottL> and at least two people should be accountable (no pun intended) for the proceeds to avoid the appearance or occurrence of impropriety 
<stochastic> ScottL, why is Lilypond and Denemo being ditched in Natty?
 * stochastic reads the full e-mail and highly disagrees with some of the package removals
<stochastic> If I do recall correctly, all of the packages currently included in the metas are there because they serve a distinct workflow purpose that no other package/app serves.
<stochastic> Why are all the DJ apps being removed?  Why is CSound being removed? JDelay!?!
<stochastic> Rather than removing everything that someone doesn't list on the workflow page, why not take out the items that people can prove are redundant in the meta?
<ScottL> stochastic, the decisions were worked over with persia, among them replacing denemo and lilypond with mscore
 * ScottL realizes that persia is not the be all, end all however
<ScottL> stochastic, can you provide some workflows that will utilize the applications you mentioned?
<ScottL> replacing applications back into the seeds is not objectionable, far from it
<ScottL> i hope to see community involvement to keep the applications, actually
<ScottL> stochastic, i'm presuming you are away at the moment, however, when you get back i would like to discuss possibly creating a audio-dj task/seed
<stochastic> ScottL, I'll copy the current wiki onto my netbook (as I do have time to work while on my commute) and edit up some tasks
<stochastic> an audio-dj seed seems redundant to me at first (i.e. would contain many of the same low level basics that the audio meta would)
<ScottL> stochastic, i have been updating the seeds but they haven't been pushed yet or the -meta updated
<ScottL> i had been waiting for input from users
<ScottL> also, the audio seed has been split into three seeds: audio-common, recording, and generation
<ScottL> the idea is to try to give a user a smaller subset of the audio applications as they desire
<ScottL> the premise is that someone who does not play an instrument would not want several additional applications like guitarix, et al
<ScottL> hopefully this will also help with the length of the menu
<ScottL>  
<ScottL> stochastic, i would expect many of the "low level basics" that you mentioned would be included already in the audio-common seed
<ScottL> which an audio-dj would then depend on as well in the same manner as the generation and recording seeds
<TheMuso> Hey folks. Just checking in briefly before boarding my flight to Boston.
<paultag> TheMuso, Hell yeah! Where abouts?
<paultag> TheMuso, That there is my homeland
<TheMuso> paultag: Flew from Orlando to Boston.
<paultag> TheMuso, I grew up in Boston
<TheMuso> Cool.
<paultag> TheMuso, good flight I hope :)
<TheMuso> Yeah wasn't too bad, a few screaming children though.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-10-31
<stochastic_netbo> ScottL, you around?
<ScottL> stochastic, yes, just got back with at least one of the kids from trick-or-treating :)
<ScottL> oops, going outside again for a bit
<ScottL> stochastic, i stayed up late last night to type to you, if you need me to do the same again tonight i certainly will
<stochastic_netbo> ScottL, sorry, I'm not on the computer currently logged in with 'stochastic' so I didn't see your last few comments, now I'm headed out for my evening job, will be back in about five or six hours (though monday or tuesday I should be around to talk more if you don't want to stay up)
<stochastic_netbo> Oh, and ScottL, I just posted a few changes to the task wiki page you might want to take a look
<scott-upstairs> stochastic_netbo, heh, my mistake about using the wrong name and talking monday or tuesday sounds better than staying up late again
<scott-upstairs> stochastic_netbo,  from what i read i thought the changes you made so far are brilliant
<scott-upstairs> it's funny, when i read the changes (just the diffs from the wiki), i thought, "bloody hell, why didn't i think to organize it like that?"
<scott-upstairs> stochastic_netbo,  i also wanted to mention that i misspoke earlier when i mentioned a audio-dj seed, it shouldn't have been that narrow of focus
<scott-upstairs> i was thinking about a performance seed, which might include applications such as: seq24, mixxx, terminatorx, xwax, sooperlooper, freemix, lives
<scott-upstairs> but it also appears from what you have written that csound and celilia might be applicable as well
<rlameiro> happy halloween
<rlameiro> does anyone took a look at the audio uds meeting?
<ScottL> hi rlameiro 
 * ScottL just got back from the renaissance fair with the family
<rlameiro> ScottL: awesome :D I hope your kids liked it :D
<ScottL> rlameiro, yes, the entire family had a really good time
<rlameiro> ScottL: good to know, my brother is a medieval actor
<rlameiro> he makes medieval fairs on castles, sword fighting, etc
<rlameiro> its very nice
<rlameiro> ScottL: http://www.teatro-vivarte.org/site/wp-content/gallery/almodovar/img_1223.jpg
<rlameiro> its my brother
<rlameiro> http://www.teatro-vivarte.org, this is the company website, portuguese only, but you can translate it with google if you want
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-10-24
<holstein> knome: congrats on the xubuntu team lead :)
<ScottL> micahg, i remember most of it, just sometimes forget some of the syntax for some of the bzr commands
<ScottL> i hope charlie doesn't feel bad :/
<holstein> acmeinc: you might need to just camp out here for a bit
<acmeinc> im here
<holstein> you were interested in helping with the site?
<acmeinc> correct
<holstein> cool
<holstein> acmeinc: welcome :)
<acmeinc> i was actually just reading the blueprint
<holstein> nice
<holstein> i was going to link that
<acmeinc> looks like you've moved forward a bit
<holstein> yup
<holstein> we just cant easily 'fix' whats there
<holstein> so, we are going to just implement the new site
<acmeinc> cms based i would assume, or does ubuntu give a "theming" environemnt?
<holstein> wordpress
<acmeinc> easy enough
<holstein> knome has set up a testing environment
<acmeinc> may i ask why the current cant be updated?  at elast for the time being
<holstein> http://temp.knome.fi/ubuntustudio/wordpress/
<holstein> acmeinc: you sure can
<holstein> not sure who you ask though
<holstein> we dont have rights to it
<holstein> thats pretty much why it cant
<acmeinc> i see...new site looks nice...doesnt look like you need me :P
<acmeinc> seems to just need content migrated/created
<holstein> acmeinc: feel free to check out the blueprint and get envolved where you want :)
<holstein> it would be great to just throw up a bandaid temporarily
<holstein> im sure *someone* has access
<holstein> and you could ask around
<acmeinc> well the sooner content gets migrated the quicker ubuntu will approve the site id assume
<holstein> yup
<acmeinc> soo....what do you need from me, or, how can i help?
<holstein> at http://temp.knome.fi/ubuntustudio/wordpress/
<holstein> there are pages
<holstein> you can help me/us decide content
<holstein> i was planning on loading up the old site
<holstein> and weeding through it
<holstein> putting up something for us to mess with soon
<holstein> you can also ask knome for the wordpress admin rights there as that staging site
<holstein> and just go for it yourself
<acmeinc> ok...well this doesnt seem very hard to get a "working" clone up that is at least an actual legit site
<acmeinc> if he could give me just posting rights, that should do, i can get content on the download page
<holstein> acmeinc: you want to PM me your email?
<acmeinc> its on the list, so its not private :P
<acmeinc> tim@pghcomp.com
<holstein> hehe
<holstein> acmeinc: well, if you can hang here, go for it
<holstein> i'm sure i'll see knome soon and ill pass on your email
<holstein> if not, i'll just look harder for the email addy i cant find right now
<acmeinc> ok cool...i have some ideas....mainly i really think the package list for each sub-distro of studio should be included.
<holstein> you mean the meta-packages?
<holstein> we might be changing that actually
<acmeinc> @hostein, do you have anything to do with the actual dev of studio?
<holstein> well, i have as much as anyone else really
<acmeinc> like audio, graphics and video i mean holstein
<holstein> im not a coding contributor
<holstein> which is what we need
<holstein> ScottL is the team lead
<holstein> we have a few folks like knome that have come on since we moved to XFCE
<holstein> which is exciting
<acmeinc> ok not so much myself either, but, i have been using xfce with studio for quite some time now, didnt seem so hard to "merge" them
<holstein> acmeinc: cool
<holstein> yeah, we have plans to go with a live installer DVD
<holstein> and have a different kind of task select
<holstein> like 'workflows'
<acmeinc> not so much experience with that unfortunately, but ive read about the blueprints
<holstein> http://edubuntu.org/documentation/11.04/installation-guide#Edubuntu_Options_and_Partitioning_
<holstein> ^^ like edubuntu there
<holstein> top right image i think
<holstein> anyways, that sounds like documentation too acmeinc which is also something that needs to be discussed
<holstein> right now, im pretty focused on the site
<holstein> since that makes us look dormant
<acmeinc> yea, i can dig on that.  i am happy to write up some stuff
<micahg> ScottL: I use bzr help quite often
<holstein> acmeinc: well, we are glad you are here
<knome> holstein, thanks :)
<knome> hey acmeinc 
<knome> acmeinc, i quickly saw you discussed the website with holstein earlier
<shnatsel> MAN< debian processes and their tools are so damn retarded
<shnatsel> I wonder how do they manage to use that
<shnatsel> they are totally counter-intuitive and seem to be buggy too
<shnatsel> and when I got throught it on the 8th try, I got "wait for an hour to find out if your bug report was submitted"
<shnatsel> marvellous
<scott-work> good morning everyone :)
<scott-work> knome:  are you intimately familiar with setting the theme in xubuntu or do you know who is?  i would really like to get this progressed before we start the more laborous tasks for -lowlateny kernel and live dvd
<scott-work> knome: also, will it be possible to create new pages on the website once it is in place and live?  will we have to go through security again?
<scott-work> hi shnatsel, do you think we shoud implement the live dvd seperately from the edubuntu user select/install components task?  or should we do both at the same time?
<scott-work> shnatsel: i'm leaning towards getting the live dvd portion first
 * scott-work may ask in #edubuntu-devel about this
<shnatsel> scott-work: I'm not sure where it should reside, I haven't really seen Ubiquity for a year already]
<scott-work> shnatsel: i'm sorry, i meant...should we tackle and complete the live dvd portion first, and then focus on the edubuntu thing to seperate and simply the processes
<scott-work> or will that take too much time and not really simplifiy it enough?
<scott-work> i'm just nervous about getting everything done, if we focus on live dvd first, then we will know it's complete and then can research the edubuntu select/install issue
<shnatsel> scott-work: those tasks are so tightly related that they should be done simultaneously IMHO
<shnatsel> scott-work: if we finish livedvd seeds first, we'll have to redo them for that installer thing anyway
<shnatsel> scott-work: oh, I tried to do the proposed things for including my packages in Debian, the tools seem to be buggy. On the 8th try I managed to get through it, it said that I should receive an email response in an hour max. It's been 2 hours and still no response.
<scott-work> shnatsel: okay, i'm good with that then :)
<shnatsel> bbiab
<scott-work> shnatsel: later today i'll email quadrispro about your packages and debian
<knome> scott-work, theme as in gtk theme? maybe ask mr_pouit :)
<scott-work> knome: thank you :)
<knome> scott-work, yes, you can add pages yourself after it's live
<knome> scott-work, if you need to know things about the theme itself, you can ask me :)
<scott-work> knome: i'm concerned about what files i need to touch and implementing it inside ubuntustudio-look
<knome> scott-work, afaik, greybird should be inside murrine-themes
<scott-work> i was hoping for a overview of what needs to be done, i can probably get into the minutia myself given a general direction
<knome> scott-work, so you'd only need to install that pkg, and set greybird as default
<scott-work> knome: exactly!  i think i could probably handle the rest
<scott-work> but this doesn't touch the panels at this point, correct?
<knome> no
<scott-work> no, i am incorrect?  or no, it doesn't touch the panels?
<knome> it doesn't touch the panels
<scott-work> oh good!
<knome> the panel layout should be in the xfce config stuff
<scott-work> not that i don't want to touch the panels, but i like it when my understandings are not shattered ;)
<scott-work> knome: right!  in an xml file, correct?
<scott-work> very readable, if not laborious
<knome> i have no deeper understanding in that, mr_pouit will know it from his head, or people in #xfce-dev
<knome> ^ a good chan to be in, btw
<scott-work> i will add that channel then
<holstein> knome: i wasnt sure how you felt about admins to the test site like that
<holstein> like acmeinc 
<holstein> or if its easy to just add them
<holstein> did you see acmeinc 's email addy?
<holstein> tim@pghcomp.com
<knome> holstein, ah, no, i missed that
<holstein> knome: acmeinc has some time today to do some of the staging whenever you get a chance to hook up and discuss an account there
<holstein> thanks :)
<knome> staging as in adding content?
<holstein> knome: yup
<knome> right
<holstein> some of the stuff im to do
<holstein> nothing crazy...
<holstein> acmeinc has read the blueprint
<holstein> and offered to help
<knome> acmeinc, can you PM me your realname and i'll add you an account
<scott-work> knome: will you need anything further from the other development website (http://myhaiku.org) ?
<knome> no, if you don't want to move content from over there
<scott-work> no, i don't think so, the original author was asking about it (i think he wants to take it down if possible)
<knome> sure
<scott-work> thank you
<knome> np :)
 * knome is just refreshing the theme of his own blog
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-10-25
<scott-work> lightdm bzr update is being upload to repos
<scott-work> i touched the bug and fixed the Depends: issue (but yet forgot the bug# in the changelog :|  )
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-10-26
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/ubuntustudio/wordpress/?tab=11
<knome> new bg for audio 'tab'
<holstein> knome: *very* nice
<scott-work> ooh, ooh...what's nice?
<scott-work> by the way, holstein, i submitted not just one but two blueprints for the kernel for uds-p
<scott-work> cause i'm either an overachiever or an idiot, your choice ;)
<holstein> http://knome.fi/temp/ubuntustudio/wordpress/
<holstein> scott-work: ^^ behind the audio tab is new :)
<scott-work> OH YEAH!  that looks really nice
<holstein> yup
<scott-work> now that i've gotten the blueprint pushed a bit i hope to work on the current website (update releases) and the development website tonight
<holstein> scott-work: w00t
<holstein> im off tonite too
<holstein> i can be home around 8 my time
<holstein> i have a 6:30 session
<scott-work> i have a list that i am trying to keep current of tasks that need to be done and i've been prioritizing them
<scott-work> i really want to get things moving this cycle
<holstein> likewise
<falktx> nice to see US going again
<falktx> (hey there)
<holstein> falktx: o/
<ScottL> hi shnatsel , i talked to the guy who does the edubuntu patched ubiquity
<ScottL> he said basically that you were right about your process
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-10-27
<holstein> ScottL: im around... lets do something?
<holstein> :)
<ScottL> holstein, i updated the existing website
<holstein> ScottL: COOL
 * holstein looking
<ScottL> i think i can add users too
<holstein> can you just get rid of that banner?
<ScottL> later i'll see if i can fix the "logo" crap in the top corner
<holstein> or point it to another?
<ScottL> i'll poke around tonight later on my tablet
<holstein> i'll mess with that if you can add me
<ScottL> i'm trying to get my four year old to settle down, i'll add you in a bit
<holstein> ScottL: sure
<ScottL> holstein, still there?
<holstein> yo
<holstein> ScottL: im really warming up to XFCE
<ScottL> good :)  i'm liking it quite it bit
<ScottL> holstein, did you see what i typed in the other channel?
<knome> ScottL, <div class="page_wrap"><img src="images/background.png" style="width:100%; float:left; positon:absolute; height:207px;" alt="logo" />
<knome> ScottL, remobe the alt-attribute from that line
<knome> *remove
<ScottL> knome, that is in the page.php or similar file in the bzr branch isn't it?
<ScottL> i thought of that when i went to bed last night
<knome> don't know in which file is it
<ScottL> was trying to get the code up on the tablet but i lost internet connection
<ScottL> what's funny is i woke up thinking about this and was just heading upstairs to look through some of the php code :P
<knome> heh
<knome> just pull the bar branch to your pc and grep it
<scott-upstairs> i can't find that line in the code or on the website through the admin pages
<scott-upstairs> it is strange that i find the banner on the home page only, but i see the word "logo" on almost every other page
<scott-upstairs> close
<knome> lol
<scott-work> knome: so this morning i grabbed the bzr branch for the website and did a grep search for 'logo'
<knome> yeah?
<scott-work> i found some stuff but none of it was the line you quoted
<scott-work> i have gone through the admin part of the website and couldn't find anything
<scott-work> eventually i just started turning this off and seeing if it fixed anything (then turning them back on)
<knome> quah
<scott-work> i've asked dan lynch (i kinda know him) who does some website stuff and is familiar with drupal if he could offer any suggestestion or insight
<scott-work> only thing he offered was that it sounded like it was looking for the background.png image but can't find it so it's dumpging "logo" up there
<knome> if you can pass me the crendentials, or access to the server, i can look at that too
<knome> yeah, i could figure that out too.
<knome> you could also just put the image on the server... :P
<knome> 1x1 transparent PNG or so
<scott-work> knome: i dont' want to drag you into this if you don't have the time, it's a minor issue really since we are also going to be updating the site
<scott-work> knome: yeah, that was my next step, to verify that it isn't there because i think i saw the 'background.png' file in the bzr branch
<knome> well, it isn't, because it really wouldn't be showing the alt text otherwise
<knome> it might just be linked incorrectly (wrong path or so)
<scott-work> yeah, but i can't find where that damn link in coming from :(
<knome> heh
<knome> do you have access to the server itself?
<scott-work> i think someone screwed something up and then "fixed" it by putting another image there anyway
<holstein> i was thinking we could just make a banner real quick
<holstein> something that'll fit
<scott-work> knome: no, i do not have direct access
<knome> right :(
<holstein> it was over my head though
<holstein> the access
<scott-work> holstein, but there is an image already there....the multicolored blotchy stuff above the menu bar
<knome> scott-work, dump some credentials to my email and i'll fix it in a minute
<scott-work> knome: copy that
<scott-work> oh, sorry, that's from my wwii airplane game days
<holstein> yeah, it would be fine to just get rid of it altogether
<holstein> or a transparent .png like knome says ;)
<holstein> i like that
<scott-work> i'd really like to know how it gets fixed (if it does) too
<scott-work> holstein:  kn.ome found the problem:  http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio-resources/website/view/1/page.tpl.php
<scott-work> it seems that an earlier version of the page.tpl.php file has the offending bit of code :/
<scott-work> which means we aren't using the most current versions of the code on the website
<scott-work> *shrug* it won't matter in a month or so
<scott-work> and since getting someone to address an rt ticket might take two months...
<scott-work> we probably shouldn't worry about it
<holstein> hmmm... i still have the bad logo
<holstein> maybe it takes a while to update
<holstein> i cntl+F5'd
<scott-work> holstein: i can't fix it
<scott-work> holstein: sorry, WE can't fix it
<scott-work> mind said one thing, fingers typed something else :P
<holstein> :?
<holstein> :/
<holstein> ah well
<scott-work> we would have to file a rt ticket to have someone update the .php file
<holstein> onward and upward
<scott-work> aye
<scott-work> we know what it is and how to fix it
<holstein> nah, if its not stupdi easy, i say forget it
<scott-work> it is stupid easy....if we had direct access to the site ;)
<scott-work> it still is stupid easy, but it would take months probably to get done though
<shnatsel> scott-work: IMHO you have to get rid of that bureaucracy NOW if you want to get something done...
<holstein> cant though
<holstein> i mean, we can
<holstein> but we have to pay for our own hosting AFAIK
<scott-work_> shnatsel: we explored that, but considering that canonical provides hosting and security....we punted
<scott-work_> sorry, freenode is doing funny stuff with my connection...did people see what i typed?
<shnatsel> "....we punted" was the last
<holstein> yup
<scott-work_> considering what we do for hosting, which isn't much, we could easily transition to our own hosting
<scott-work_> i suppose the main problem is guarenteeing (sp?) the money for hosting
<scott-work_> although it would be nice to host user generated content (UGC) at some point too
<holstein> yeah, free'll be fine
<holstein> one we get what we need implemented
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-10-28
<ScottL> knome, if not tomorrow, then defintely during next week i will adding large amounts of data to the development website
<holstein> ScottL: lets try and knock that out this week
<holstein> i'll look at it as well
<holstein> mabye we can work on it together?
<knome> ScottL, nice :)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-10-29
<Kokito> howdy
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-10-30
<holstein> madnick: \o/
<madnick> :)
<holstein> Scott actually just ran out to UDS
<holstein> madnick: are you there too?
<holstein> or going?
<madnick> Nope
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-10-22
<len-dt> ailo-w,  I think I just stomped on you wiki edit... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/PreliminaryBlueprintsDraft1304
<len-dt> Fixed
<len-dt> GN
<ailo-w> GN len-dt 
<smartboyhw> Hmm scott-work should be here soon since that he sent an email to the dev list just noew
<smartboyhw> Yeah scott-work is here! Hi scott-work how are ya? 
<scott-work> good morning smartboyhw. i am well. how are you?
<smartboyhw> scott-work, good:D BTW maybe you should go and make an announcement for Studio 12.10 on the users mail list? There isn't one:P
<scott-work> smartboyhw: i will do that this afternoon, along with other posts in other social media
<knome> hey scott-work :)
<scott-work> although anyone can do this really, but i am planning on doing it this afternoon (for reals)
<smartboyhw> scott-work, yeah
<knome> scott-work, you busy, or have a few mins?
<scott-work> i have a few knome
<knome> great, i'll pm
<smartboyhw> scott-work, what do you think about the blueprints that ailo-w listed on the mailing lists and on the wiki?
<scott-work> some news about ubuntu studio 12.10:  https://plus.google.com/u/0/110953740010395822648/posts/iri2qMM6Hwn
<scott-work> well, mainly screenshots actually
<smartboyhw> scott-work, :D
<drupin> hey smartboyhw how ya 
<smartboyhw> drupin, hey
<drupin> how you learn to write such nice articles
<drupin> i am impressed
<smartboyhw> drupin, next time don't ask things on the 20th about things that have been done on 11th:D
<smartboyhw> drupin, a lot of english learning
<drupin> 20th 11th?
<drupin> are this test time sensetive
<smartboyhw> drupin, you asked about 12.10 testing on 20th:P
<smartboyhw> drupin, yes it is
<drupin> yes
<drupin> ok i will follow it now
<smartboyhw> drupin, it got released on the 18th :P NO ISOs to be tested from you now:P
<drupin> now i have to wait 6 months
<smartboyhw> drupin, NO NO NO
<drupin> then
<smartboyhw> drupin, wait till Raring Alpha 1:D
<smartboyhw> drupin, I will tell you when you can test
<drupin> ok thanks 
<drupin> i am trying to understand the maling list..  
<drupin> but it goes over my head
<smartboyhw> drupin, is it THAT difficult?
<drupin> trying to
<holstein> drupin: for testing, you mean?.. its a bit odd, but the qa tests lay it out
<holstein> drupin: you have seen that page, correct?
<smartboyhw> holstein, welcome:D
<drupin> which
<holstein> theres testing, which you can just do, and is always helpful and apprectiated.. but there are the qa tests that we *must* do
<holstein> drupin: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/ for example
<drupin> ok
<holstein> drupin: if you take into account bandwidth, it could take a long time to do these tests
<holstein> drupin: and it cant be with just any iso.. it *must* be the iso mentioned
<holstein> drupin: its a good idea to check here, or in the appropriate *-dev channel.. or #ubuntu-testing and make sure (courteously) which iso is to be tested
<smartboyhw> drupin, I think the raring images will come up soon
<drupin> ok
<holstein> keeping in mind that #ubuntu-testing is for *all* the isos... not just ubuntustudio... so its not a place to be even slightly impatient
<smartboyhw> good tutorial holstein :P
<holstein> the test cases are laid out.. and i like to check in here and make sure im using the proper isos...
<drupin> i look forward for Stdio so far..
<drupin> as other iso may have bigger teams
<holstein> i did tests once.. spenct a few hours... and i had the old builds.. there had been a fixed pushed out while i was tesing...
<smartboyhw> drupin, you're correct. We do have the smallest teams
<holstein> i had to start over... which was fine, but i had "wasted" a little time on the wrong iso, because i got started offline and didnt check in with the dev team here
<smartboyhw> holstein, that always happened to me:P
<holstein> when i was testing last time, i was dropping the url here and asking len-dt which he was testing, to make sure i had the proper one
<holstein> drupin: if i see that all the ubuntustudio test cases are done, and the xubuntu ones are not, i will hop over and help with the xubuntu ones... 
 * smartboyhw always got nuts testing in the final moments of a release
<smartboyhw> drupin, I do all testcases if I had the ability too
<holstein> smartboyhw: its a frantic time.. for sure
<smartboyhw> holstein, ya I had much worse time than you in testing I thnk
<holstein> drupin: all that being said.. loading up the iso, any iso and just testing things is and can be helpful... if you plan to follow up with bug reports
<holstein> coming in here or the main support channel and saying "foo is broken" may or may not help
<holstein> there is a case on the mailing list where the memory test is allegedly broken
<smartboyhw> holstein, I want to give drupin a try on QA shall I?
<holstein> there is no bug report i can find.. just a random statement on the list
<holstein> if i want to follow up, i have to try and just start cold, and reproduce an error..
<holstein> all i have done so far is use the memtest, and it worked for me
<holstein> i have no further idea about what could be causing the issue
<holstein> that user may say "you guys didnt do anything when i said memtest was broken"
<smartboyhw> drupin, try the Ubuntu Studio builds in http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/204/builds don't worry about messing it up, these ISOs are not the important ones for now (will be important 3-4 months later I think)
<holstein> but, actually.. not enough was dont constructively to help after testing and alledgedly discovering the memtest was broken
<holstein> was done*
<holstein> anyways... im just saying, testing constructively can be time consuming, and is *greatly* appreciated, and can be as simple or as envolved as you have time for
<smartboyhw> Yes:D
<smartboyhw> holstein, let me put it in my open week session about QA three days later:P
<holstein> hehe... anytime is a good time for education!
<smartboyhw> :D
<smartboyhw> drupin, still awake?
<smartboyhw> holstein, your lecture scared drupin away:P
<holstein> well.. its better to know now that to get in the water and get swept away :)
<smartboyhw> LOL
<holstein> its not clear.. the testing stuff
<holstein> even after i was told about the QA.. i still didnt get it... 
<smartboyhw> drupin, please go to #ubuntu-classroom and #ubuntu-classroom-chat on 25th Oct 14:00 UTC there is going to be Ubuntu Open Week and I will be holding a session about QA. Come and you will learn
<smartboyhw> holstein, well in some terms testing is contained in QA
<holstein> sure, but when i heard "we need help testing the iso" my first reaction was "ive use the iso..."
<holstein> and i said somewhere.. "its good!".. not knowing that that really is not constructive
<smartboyhw> QA doesn't mean only ISO testing, it can also mean Checkbox, UTAH (automation), packages
<holstein> sure.. and we have some nice tests in there now... very relevant... but the goal is to have our iso released without major errors
<smartboyhw> holstein, yes :D
<smartboyhw> holstein, my longest post EVER on Ubuntu Forums
<smartboyhw> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2072846
<holstein> smartboyhw: *very* nice!
<smartboyhw> holstein, :) I spend half an hour bolding and adding hyperlikns to text....Really boring:P
<holstein> smartboyhw: i appreciate your time with it.. im going to bookbmark that.. maybe copy it to some blogpost (and credit you, of course!)
<smartboyhw> holstein, IDK you HAVE a blog:P
<holstein> i dont keep it up.. i need to separate out a tech blog though
<smartboyhw> holstein, where IS the blog? Let me bookmark it too
<holstein> i have mikeholstein.info right now.. its horribly out of date though, and i dont keep up my calendar
<holstein> ive just been too busy lately.. though things should calm down for me mid november... and i want to take a week or so off in january
<smartboyhw> holstein, :D
<holstein> its hard for me to vacation as a self-employed musican
<smartboyhw> holstein, yeah. Easy for me since I am a student!
<holstein> well, thats not "easy" though, by any means.. enjoy it though... i think its less complicated
<smartboyhw> holstein, :D
<falktx> hey scott-work
<falktx> scott-work: I was thinking about pushing my little cadence tools in the US-dev PPA for later testing and discussion
<falktx> I want to discuss it in the ML, so having it in the ppa ready to test seems like a nice idea to me
<smartboyhw> Hey falktx welcome
<falktx> hey smartboyhw
<smartboyhw> falktx, I thought you mean to put the cadence tools in the ISOs for Raring right?
<falktx> I still need to change the code to be easily extendable (like add new tweaks and system checks), but a simple demo for now will be nice
<smartboyhw> falktx, ooh:P are you in the ubuntustudio-dev team?
<ailo> falktx: Why not just create a new PPA in your name?
<ailo> Not that it matters to me
<ailo> They are your applications after all
<smartboyhw> falktx, yeah create a ppa, and let us test it
<smartboyhw> falktx, that ubuntustudio-dev ppa is EXTREMELY OUTDATED\
<falktx> yeah it is...
<falktx> I just wanted it to be a little bit more official
<smartboyhw> falktx, er....real weird
<ailo> falktx: The applications you have created have been designed by you, for your purposes. I don't believe I have seen any discussion on decision making whether to include those applications in Ubuntu Studio. Not saying I'm against it. Just saying, it's not something that has been discussed AFAIK.
<ailo> falktx: That's why, at this stage, I consider them your applications, and that it would be good to start testing them in order to give you feedback
<falktx> ailo: yeah I know, that's why I wanted a discussion - so I can still change them to better suit US purposes
<ailo> falktx: If it so happens, that something is very useful, maybe people will have opinions on changes, etc
<ailo> Right
<falktx> I'll finish some things for today and upload to a new (mine) PPA later
<falktx> then I'll post something on the ML
<smartboyhw> falktx, I will test it tmr hopefully. Is it for Quantal or?
<falktx> quantal, yes
<smartboyhw> falktx, OK then I will test it tmr
<falktx> cool
<ailo> falktx: I'll like to test them as well, and I'm sure at least len-dt will be on it too
<falktx> ailo: did you ever started your version of *-controls?
<ailo> falktx: Not really. I've just scrambled some resources.
<smartboyhw> Anyway gotcha go bye guys see you tmr
<ailo> falktx: I might still do it, even if it won't end up as -controls. Or, if your apps are great, I might have some ideas for your stuff
<ailo> Not in a hurry to do anything right now. I have a huge puredata project under way, which I hope I can finish before I grow old
<ailo> As soon as that is done, I'll have more time for Ubuntu Studio, and many other things
<ailo> falktx: One of the primary functions I pictured for controls was administering realtime privilege for users
<scott-work> falktx: that sounds like a good idea and might encourage testing
<falktx> ailo: I have a sort-of-API for the system tweaks:
<falktx> http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/paste/zGnDi
 * scott-work just starting reading the part where ailo comments and stops to consider
<falktx> scott-work: so using the us-dev ppa for this is ok with you?
<ailo> falktx: Yea, the system check
<ailo> falktx: Would be great to have a function where you can add users to audio group (sometimes you have more than one user on a system), and also, making sure the PAM file is in place
<ailo> Actually, I still need to look at making any new user belong to audio group by default, on Ubuntu Studio..
<scott-work> falktx: i think ailo makes good points, it would be pretty misleading to use the ubuntustudio-dev ppa for testing this since it isn't in ubuntu studio, it may be some time before it gets into ubuntu, and we may have our own tools by then
<falktx> ailo: I think root actions should only be recommended, not handled by this application. introducing sudo/kdesudio/gksu in the app is something I'll try NOT to do
<scott-work> sorry to reverse what i said
<falktx> ailo: but the PAM stuff is useful (one more reason to make a real API of this, so we can easily add more checks)
<falktx> scott-work: no prob, I understand. but then I'll be counting on your opinions on it ;)
<ailo> falktx: Why not use gksu? We've been considering other things, that would require it. System tweaks
<ailo> Well, me and len-dt, that is
<falktx> ailo: it's kind of a security risk. and I hate when regular apps ask my password, they shouldn't do that
<ailo> falktx: Just keep it as a separate process
<falktx> also, it's very hard to properly do sudo actions
<ailo> No need for password, until you hit apply
<falktx> there's gksu, gksudo, kdesu, kdesudo, and others
<falktx> and then in some distros the sudo actions don't have access to X
<falktx> (opensuse)
<falktx> I think policy-kit is able to handle root permissions directly, but I never understood how it works
<ailo> Aha. Never looked into that. 
<ailo> scott-work: Busy time? Don't want to stress you, but I guess we've been wondering a little about next cycle and the degree of your commitment. Maybe you're preparing to tell us something about that already?
<ailo> scott-work: Hopefully you feel ok with how things are progressing so far.
<ailo> scott-work: And about the blueprints. Nothing is carved in stone. I think we are going towards the same goal all the time, and keeping some options open
<ailo> As always, it remains to be seen what actually gets accomplished for each cycle :)
<scott-work> ailo: i responded to your email this morning
<ailo> scott-work: Oh. Damn. I have missed it
<ailo> Let me look
<scott-work> i will be involved in development this cycle, i already have a list that i will be posting to the mailing list and adding it to the wiki page
<scott-work> ailo: i am hoping that a small group (or an open meeting would be okay) can get together and roadmap the next few cycles, pushing reasonable goals for each cycle
<ailo> scott-work: Allright. Sounds good to me
<scott-work> if the people who have been helping with testing hold the same, i hope that you, len, micah, and i can get some good things done development-wise
<scott-work> i would like astraljava to be involved but i understand that he is busy of late, so i wasn't really considering his involvement at this time
<ailo> scott-work: I'm really hoping the same. I feel really motivated, but also a bit held back by "higher" priorities
<scott-work> understandable
<scott-work> hopefully we can also prioritize the items for R and make sure we get the important stuff done instead of just the easy tasks :P
 * micahg has archivey type things that he wants to do for US, like get rid of python-support
 * scott-work isn't implying that others haven't done hard or difficult work and only cherry-picked the easy stuff
<scott-work> or doens't mean to imply, at least
<ailo> scott-work: Well, let's see how things progress. I'll be looking forward to next cycle development, and am glad you're being more active again. I was prepared to help in that respect, but was actually not looking forward to it, because of lack of time
<ailo> If we had more people, we'd have less tasks, per person
<ailo> And that would mean, more focus on single tasks
<scott-work> aye, very true
<scott-work> but i am very happy and thankful for the people we do have at this time
<scott-work> a year ago (or so) it was very different
<ailo> Yea, it feels better now. But, it could be a lot better too
<ailo> The world needs to breed more linux multimedia develipers
<holstein> scott-work: do we have a blog? and ubuntustudio blog?
<holstein> i would like to have a place wherea certain number of us could post things
<holstein> i would like to push that into the ubuntu weekly newsletter more regularly
<scott-work> holstein: we do have the website we _should_ be posting news :/
<holstein> scott-work: i thought this would be easier
<holstein> i could just add admins to a blogspot blog
<scott-work> we could, i wonder what ailo or len think about this?
<holstein> well, they dont need to really think about it
<holstein> i can start one, you can contribute.. if they want to contribute they can
<scott-work> we probably also should ask about who would post there and if there is an active supply of people who will post
<holstein> you can cross post relevant posts from your blog
<ailo> We could have the front page of ubuntustudio.org display headers to news postings?
<holstein> i can add anyone with a gmail account easily
<ailo> But, I don't think we can have too much news anyhow
<holstein> i personally dont want to clutter up the site too much
<ailo> It's fairly common to have recent news headers on a front page
<ailo> Like: new release out, etc
<holstein> sure.. i just dont look there for them.. but im not saying no
<holstein> im just saying, i dont want to change the site right now today
<holstein> i can get my mind around this.. makind a blogspot blog
<holstein> add interested users
<ailo> The home page is probably the most active page. A blog may not attract as much attention, not saying it's not useful
<holstein> add the blogs to the newletter
<ailo> ubuntustudio.org is WP, so posting news is in a sence blogging
<holstein> ailo: my goal is not to attract users to the site though, necessarily
<holstein> i want to have a nice, easy, clean place for *anyone* to post.. and that can become news for the newsletter
<holstein> more to raise awarness and just be in the news
<ailo> If there is a separate blog, we need to link to it from the homepage, if it's official
<holstein> ailo: i had no plans for it to be "official"
<ailo> holstein: In that case, I think it's really up to you
<holstein> "over at ubuntustudio unofficial news alio talks about the upcoming release af ardour3... ubuntustudio is awesome"
<holstein> ^^ sample headline
<holstein> i could just add a google alert for "ubuntustudio"
<holstein> but, i was thinking more about fabricating news
<ailo> holstein: For that kind of thing, I expect you are the right man for the job. 
<holstein> fabricating news ;)
<holstein> i just want us to have more mind-share
<ailo> If it's not official, there's no limitation to who could be involved. Doesn't even need to be limited to Ubuntu Studio, as long as it's about multimedia on Linux. In one way or another, it's relevant also to Ubuntu Studio
<ailo> holstein: What would you call the blog?
<holstein> yup, thats what i was thinking... the newletter is weekly
<holstein> i was thinking 4 or 5 of us could just post what we are doing regularly and it would be enough to include
<holstein> ailo: im open to suggestions on the name... maybe i should revive the opensourcemusians blog for this
<holstein> bbs..
<ailo> That is a suiting name. I also don't see any problem with using the Ubuntu Studio name, in one way or another
<ailo> holstein: If you take the lead, and manage it, I'm sure there are lot's of people around who would be interested in contributing. If it's relaxed, posts don't need to be that specific either.
<ailo> I'm turning the lights off now. New day tomorrow
<holstein> ailo: GN.. im going to check with the osmp guys about reviving that current blog for this
<len-dt> falktx, polkit is not all that hard to use. The docs are not that nice, but there are enough examples for anything I have tried.
<len-dt> I put together a script to change runlevels within RL 2-5. without having to put a password in every time.
<len-dt> It calls telinit put doesn't allow anyway of restarting init or rereading init's config.
<len-dt> falktx  restarting init on ubuntu restarts upstart which can break upstart which is why I made a wrapper for it to just allow RL 2-5
<len-dt> in a stock system changing among those levels does nothing.
<len-dt> but I set up the run levels so that RL 3 is audio clean. CPU governing to performance, cron and friends off, My wireless kernel mod unloaded (xrun per  minute otherwise) and any other high memory use services off too (mysql comes to mind).
<falktx> nice
<falktx> I'll need to take another shot at it some time
<len-dt> I have a systray icon that activates it
<len-dt> The icon changes depending on what mode I am in.
<len-dt> That part just uses alltray and tcl/tk
<len-dt> I want to move it to python
<falktx> tcl, ouch
<len-dt> Its what I know :)
<len-dt> What I liked about tcl/tk is that I learned it a long time ago and everything I learned still works. All the scripts a wrote still work with zero maintenance.
<len-dt> ailo,  (when you wake up :)  Take a quick look at the list for a thread "color management".  Maybe audio is not the only thing that needs controls.
<scott-work> anyone going to be at UDS-R ? 
<knome> scott-work, yes ;>
<knome> scott-work, a lot of people actually...
 * knome trollface
<scott-work> hehe
<scott-work> i meant someone who might represent ubuntu studio for the email about doing the flavour presentation
<scott-work> i just thought of another way, if no one is going. i suppose a presentation could be a pre-recorded video (but aren't all videos pre-recorded :P )
<knome> i can. i'll just tell them ubuntu studio is going to be merged with xubuntu, and that all donations and idolizing should be directed to me.
<knome> does that sound like a plan?
<knome> anyway, i got to go. if that sounds good to you, send me an email with a cheque of $50,000,00 to cover the preparation for the presentation
<knome> see you ;)
<scott-work> lol, what donations is that?
<scott-work> len-dt: or ailo, someone asked me about the xfce plugin for cpu scaling (http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/panel-plugins/xfce4-cpufreq-plugin) . i remember discussions about cpu scaling but i don't know enough to answer if we should include this as default or not
<scott-work> but i am leaving work now, so i'll ask again tomorrow
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-10-23
 * smartboyhw finds yesterday's logs a bit difficult to consume
<len-dt> smartboyhw, try salt :) and a glass of water
<smartboyhw> len-dt, LOL
<smartboyhw> falktx, can't test for you I half-upgraded to raring now:P
<falktx> heh, raring is not even started
<smartboyhw> Finally the announcement mail arrived:D
<smartboyhw> i think scott-work sort of copied my post on Ubuntu Forums:P
<ailo-w> smartboyhw: From the looks of it, perhaps you also took some from his original release notes?
<smartboyhw> ailo-w, yes but then he publicly admitted he copied it from me:P so fair game
<ScottL> micahg: i saw your comment in the "missing meta" bug, but i am unsure of your questions
<ScottL> i would expect that the ubuntustudio-desktop meta should pull in the photo and publishing meta in any instance, whether it is an upgrade or just an installation
<len-dt> ScottL, The seeds do that in the ISO
<len-dt> ScottL, if we ever want to go back to an "only install what you want" then the metas need to not be in Desktop.
<smartboyhw> Hi ScottL 
<smartboyhw> Good job on copying my forum post:P
<smartboyhw> hi len-dt 
<len-dt> hello
<ScottL> len-dt: oh yeah, good point. i had completely forgotten that was a requirement of the ubiquity plugin
<ScottL> smartboyhw: yes, i thought i did a 'fabulous' job of copying your forum post :P
<ScottL> i still have a few more emails to send out to "third party" type places, like distrowatch, linux outlaws, and a few others
<smartboyhw> ScottL, :P
<ScottL> i also posted on g+, twitter, facebook, identica and posted again as "ubuntu studio" on g+ and facebook
<smartboyhw> ScottL, so you are not at work today? (according to your nick):D
<ScottL> doh, i got out of routine this morning. when i don't follow the rote path i tend to do things like that
<ScottL> (and forget my wedding ring in the morning sometimes as well, much to my wife's chagrin)
<smartboyhw> lol
<astraljava> What, is she afraid you'd hit on one of your fellow engineers at work? Like, seriously?!
<smartboyhw> good j/k astraljava 
<astraljava> Nonetheless, the ring's an attraction these days, or so I've heard... Figures, when I don't have one anymore...
<smartboyhw> ScottL, do you HAVE to send things to distrowatch? Look at http://distrowatch.com/?newsid=07508
<ScottL> smartboyhw: i think so, when i haven't (and once when i did) sent them an email i have not seen an announcement
<ScottL> although i thought that vanilla ubuntu was handling that, or consolidating the announcements, at one time
<ScottL> but i have just been emailing distrowatch to make sure anyways
<smartboyhw> ;p
<ScottL> oh ho. looks like it has been done. yay :)
<smartboyhw> lol
<ailo> I never knew there was a Ubuntu Studio facebook page
<smartboyhw> ailo, and I never know there is a Ubuntu Studio G+ page:P
<ailo> ScottL: Maybe do a list of all the social channels where there's a Ubuntu Studio page/account, and think about adding links to them at the home page. At the very least, list them in some wiki page
 * smartboyhw agrees
<ailo> smartboyhw: Why I am puzzled about the fb page is because there was talk about starting one a few months ago, but it seems there has been one active all along
<smartboyhw> ailo, Oh!
<ScottL> ailo: i had written down (but not posted yet to the ML) about a "Public Relation" page (wiki or website or wherever) that has the places to email/post for release/test/whatever and also some standard verbiage and any other assets
<ScottL> ailo: smartboyhw: i didn't even know we had one until jussi asked me to be admin for it, this was a few months ago
<ScottL> one = facebook page
<smartboyhw> ScottL, oh...
 * ScottL suspects jussi was looking to reduce the number of his responsibilities :P
<smartboyhw> LOL
<ailo> ScottL: I can take care of the paper work, if you could just give me a list
 * smartboyhw wants to have a list of social channels that ScottL opened
<ScottL> ailo: sure, you want them spammed her or in an email? maybe a pastebin?
<ScottL> oh, oh.  i wanted to mention that volti (or similar spelling) is available in quantal, this was the audio control/mixer application that was discussed on the mailing list some months ago
<ailo> ScottL: Any format works for me. I'll add a blueprint about it too
<ailo> I'll add volti to be considered for seeds then, also
<smartboyhw> ScottL, it is correct it is volti:D
<ScottL> ailo: i'll start it but i need to get some other stuff done at work, and i will send it to you in a few hours
<ailo> ScottL: Ok, great
<smartboyhw> ailo, don't forget to prepare your session on Open Week, you do need to prepare. You are lucky that you only have to prepare things for half an hour, I have to prepare things for a FULL hour...:P
<ailo> ScottL: len-dt volti seems like a nice addition to the pulseaudio volume control, as it has alsa controls
<smartboyhw> python-alsaaudio, python-xlib along with volti
<ailo> Too bad the mixer is superwide, at least on my system.
<smartboyhw> bye len-dt ailo ScottL 
<ailo> smartboyhw: Sleep well
<ailo> ScottL: Do you have the channels linked somehow? So you can do postings on all of them at once, is what I'm getting at
<ailo> ..I mean, why I ask you if they are linked :)
<ailo> Anyway. I know you can do that with Indentica and FB, but don't know about G+. Should look into that
<ailo> Identica*
<ailo> ScottL: Seems like it would be a good practice to use them as news channels. We just need to add that to our routines
<ScottL> ailo: i have seven minutes before a meeting, here it goes:
<ScottL> i post on the -dev mailing list, the -users mailing list, my blog, g+ (which get's posted automatically from my blog), i used "broadcast" to post to identica, facebook, and twitter
<ScottL> then i follow up with posting as "ubuntu studio" on facebook and g+
<ScottL> i also email linux outlaws, distrowatch
<ScottL> i can't think of anything else at this point, but i'm sure i have something in a gdoc somewhere
<ScottL> we should also brainstorm to list out any podcast or publication (online or otherwise) that has a big following (which is why i do linux outlaws)
 * ScottL is going to meeting
<holstein> the linux action show mentioned us after switching to XFCE
<holstein> maybe they would review us?
<ailo> ScottL: I guess some of those are more of your personal channels, while other, if named strictly Ubuntu Studio would appear as official
<ailo> I would suggest to use the same posting on all of the official social channels
<ailo> ScottL: If you continue to be the admin of those channels, then it will be your task to do the actual posting, while any of us can author the actual post
<ailo> And, if we do implement them as official news channels, at the very least, they will be used to post about releases
<ailo> We could add to that anything interesting we find about Ubuntu Studio on blogs, other news channels, distro watch, etc
<ailo> Interviews..
<ailo> Of course, then we need people active at keeping track of these things
<ailo> I guess holstein would be one candidate for such a task?
 * holstein perks up
<ScottL> ailo: i'm confusing and worried that i'm not understanding something, when you say "news channel" or "channels" do you mean facebook specific or is this a generic term?
<ScottL> i think smartboy has done fairly good about keeping up with releases as well, he might be a good candidate for PR as well
<ailo> ScottL: I don't make a distinction between G+, Facebook, or Identica. I do make a distinction between personal channels, and official ones though
<ailo> ScottL: I agree.
<ailo> ScottL: Anything called "Ubuntu Studio" would seem like an official channel to me
<holstein> ailo: :)
<ailo> Seems like Xubuntu dropped out from Open Week
<holstein> i wish i could help
<holstein> im going to be playing the first of 2 shows tomorrow then
<ailo> Doesn't seem like an overly active occasion
<holstein> i thought it was nice
<holstein> gives a nice reference point
<holstein> and makes us all look busy :)
<ailo> Yeah, and competent
<scott-work> ailo: something else we should include in the PR data/information/knowledge base: we should include which tags we should use, e.g. #ubuntu, #ubuntustudio, !ubuntustudio or whatever
<scott-work> we should also probably include some of this information (i.e. the tags ) on the website or similar to inform people to look for these items on their social medias
<ailo> scott-work: Sure. So, if I understand correctly, there are only two social channels under the name "Ubuntu Studio". g+ and facebook?
<scott-work> ailo: aye, those are the ones of which i am aware and that we actual control
<scott-work> i think there are a few others within facebook and identica that are groups or whatever
<ailo> scott-work: Can't find a identi.ca Ubuntu Studio channel. Perhaps you'd like to create one?
<scott-work> ailo: i found the group in identica:  http://identi.ca/group/ubuntustudio
<scott-work> it took a bloody long time though, not sure why it was so hard to find it
<scott-work> the page has the admin on it too
<ailo> scott-work: Ah, I see Ricardo there. But, no single account. I'm currently looking at gwibber settings for accounts.
<scott-work> I'm not sure what you mean by "no single account"
<ailo> scott-work: Ubuntu is really advancing the integration between social accounts and software, I see. But, no gwibber support for g+ yet
<ailo> scott-work: Well, a user account named Ubuntu Studio
<ailo> Or, ubuntustudio
<scott-work> oh yeah, that's because i believe g+ is hiding the API for it
<scott-work> ah, i understand
<scott-work> interestingly i found a really good video posted on that page by ricardo:  http://www.xiph.org/video/vid1.shtml
<scott-work> good information if you are interested in what happens to audio and video when it goes digital and how we sample/quantify it
<jussi> scott-work: true that :D
<jussi> (about the responsibilities)
<ailo> scott-work: But hey, only Ninjas can do it :(
 * ailo actually did learn some ninjutsu a long time ago
<holstein> OK.. *statement*
<holstein> seems like i get my volume icons on the desktop from 2 places
<holstein> almost like XFCE is making them and nautilus
<ailo> nautilus doesn't handle volume icons. Never happened to me
<ailo> holstein: Try googling it.
<holstein> i just got started on it
<holstein> if i turn off "show volumes" in xfce settings... then i only get one icon for my hard drives, but none for USB sticks
<holstein> which is find for me
<holstein> fine*
<holstein> but its odd...
<ailo> holstein: Ah, I thought you meant the volume applet, sorry
<ailo> holstein: That would seem like nautilus is putting icons on there, yes
<ailo> holstein: did you add anything else, desktop wise?
<ailo> Like, another desktop system?
<holstein> ailo: nah... its still pretty "fresh"
<holstein> ailo: nvidia drivers... thats about it
<holstein> still stock wallpaper :)
<holstein> i should get a bug report going about this one...
<holstein> seems easy enough to sort out, though we might just drop nautilus
<ailo> 64 f/p is pretty stable for me. No xruns so far. 32 f/p with 3 p/b is just at the limit, with a few xruns
<ailo> On 2.6.37 I was able to run the system at 32 f/p
<ailo> So, it's definately a kernel regression, between versions
<ailo> Not because of -lowlatency per se
<ailo> I would assume -realtime has the same problems
<holstein> yeah, im comparing a realtime kernel to a lowlatency one
<holstein> and its not bad at all actually
<ailo> Actually, I have a -realtime on my Debian install
<ailo> And it's not much better
<ailo> If at all
<ailo> They're including a -realtime in the Debian main repo now
<holstein> interesting
<ailo> Something in the kernel made things go slow at around version 3
<holstein> hmmm.. now its not automatically picking up any usb sticks
<holstein> i know it did right after install.. i tested that test case on QA
<holstein> maybe i broke something
<holstein> 12.10 looks *really* good!
<holstein> i set out today to wipe my drive and put 12.10 on the production rig
<holstein> just had a few tests to do to make sure, and i certainly cant replace the functionality of 10.04 yet with 12.10 out of the box
<holstein> but, my 10.04 system is quite tweaked
<holstein> ailo: https://launchpad.net/~kxstudio-team/+archive/kernel is what you are using?
<holstein> kernel-wise?
<holstein> hmmm.. i guess there are only alsa-firmware packages in there for quantal
<ailo> holstein: No, I use the -lowlatency with Ubuntu Studio, and on Debian, I use the -realtime in the repo
<ailo> I'm not bothering with any realtime kernels right now though. Just tried the one on Debian, since it was there
<ailo> I'll be using -lowlatency, but an earlier version for my live setup, and then continue using the current -lowlatency on my home machine
<holstein> i might test the http://liquorix.net/debian/pool/main/l/linux-liquorix/
<holstein> im still on a seperate hard drive.. why not, right?
<ailo> holstein: Well, it is one version newer
 * scott-work didn't read all the backscroll but....
<scott-work> holstein: there is also an automount toggle too
<scott-work> it can't show the volumes if they aren't mounted
<holstein> scott-work: i'll check for that.. i bet it'll show the usb ones
<holstein> scott-work: i have 2 icons for my internal hard drives
<holstein> out of the box
<holstein> like XFCE is drawing them and nautilus as well
<holstein> we should double check this and just disable the nautilus one
<len-dt> holstein, I don't think it is nautilus. (could be wrong) but I have had problems with thunar not releasing USB sticks.
<len-dt> I ran thunar as default file manager for a few weeks, but I found that often I could not unmount them. I had to kill tumblerd before I could unmount.
<len-dt> I think there is something from xfce 4.8 to 4.10 that is odd. I need to try xubuntu again, but it seems to me they had the same problem without nautilus.
<holstein> im getting a screenie
<len-dt> scott-work, Volti -1... 
<len-dt> Volti takes up two screen widths
<holstein> http://imagebin.org/232998
<len-dt> A nice mixer should be able to fit on the same screen as qjackctl with the connection window open and maybe the logs too.
<len-dt> Ya, I have that here too holstein 
<len-dt> There is a bug (actually about 3 of them) for that already.
<len-dt> bug #1044896
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1044896 in xfce4 (Ubuntu) "desktop shows removable storage devices twice" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1044896
<len-dt> Maybe we should replace thunar as the desktop.
<len-dt> with nautilus
<len-dt> holstein, ^^
<len-dt> Anyway Gotta go.
<micahg> the issue affects xubuntu as well
<holstein> micahg: good to know... are there plans in xubuntu?
 * holstein starts to look at the links for the bugs
<holstein> its not a deal breaker for me by any means
<micahg> I know people were complaining, so I'm guessing it'll be fixed
<scott-work> holstein: it is interesting that it is different icons as well, that really makes me think that two separate systems are providing the desktop icons
<holstein> i'll try and join the bugs and keep an eye on it for US
<holstein> scott-work: when i "hover" the icons all change to the same icon ;)
<holstein> its odd
<holstein> scott-work: is there a realtime kernel i should be testing?
<holstein> im just going to leave this machine setup like this.. with a spare hard drive for testing
<scott-work> i used to use a separate hard drive like that too
<scott-work> holstein: i don't know about any realtime kernels at this time, not to say they aren't out there, just that i don't know about them
<holstein> i wanted to keep my production rig all seperate, but this is fine
<holstein> and im enjoying testing
<scott-work> i'm a lowlatency kernel guy, through and through :)
<holstein> scott-work: im going to try the liqourix one
<ailo> len-dt: Maybe we should try to patch the code for volti
<ailo> Seemed like a nice app, other than the superwide width
<ailo> Time for my midnight meditation. bb tomorrow
<holstein> well, liqourix is slightly worse than the lowlatency
<holstein> thats good news
<holstein> i think i have broken the usb stick mounting... it worked right after install
<scott-work> that is interesting news about liqourix vs lowlatency
<scott-work> might not be that it was "inferior" but maybe just some setting isn't compatible with something ubuntu has set up 
 * scott-work is just grasping at straws though
<scott-work> sucks about the usb mounting though :(
<holstein> it was just that stick
<scott-work> reboot?
<holstein> its back
<scott-work> ah, good :)
<holstein> i need to get a whole week off like this!
<len-dt> holstein, the usb stick is not supposed to automount in 12.10. But it should show up on the desktop and in nautilus... just not mounted.
<holstein> len-dt: it was a bad stick or something
<holstein> it wasnt showing up at all
<holstein> i did some troubleshooting and got it sorted as it was after the install
<len-dt> Ahh, we turned the "automount" off for the live ISO because the install wouldn't work. The installer would create a new partition and format it and then the automounter would steal it from the installer
<holstein> len-dt: i think thats fine
<holstein> i just want to see it in the filemanager
<len-dt> Personally I prefer not to have have any icons on my desktop and so I turn them off.
<holstein> len-dt: yeah... i do on my laptop for sure
<len-dt> ailo, the 12.10 GRUB config just has "Ubuntu" at startup. We should change this to Ubuntu Studio and have the kernel type (just generic or low latency) for those with a lap top that use generic to save battery sometimes.
<falktx> afaik other distros are the same
<falktx> Kubuntu also says "Ubuntu"
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-10-24
<len-dt> falktx, I would imagine. It only matters where more than one kind of kernel may be used.
<len-dt> Audio users have different needs than most. It is not uncommon to have more than one kernel in use. or more than one drive set up. Labeling of some sort is needed.
<len-dt> On this machine I have Ubuntu, Ubuntu and Ubuntu on three drives...
<len-dt> Three different versions, My bios can boot at any one of them. So three Grub partitions too.
<falktx> I bet the other ubuntu based distros will want this too
<falktx> having only 'Ubuntu' is kinda bad
<micahg> Ubuntu is the platform
<micahg> it's an Ubuntu kernel (at least the generic one)
<len-dt> micahg, some of us use both a generic (on battery) and low latency (on power)
<micahg> len-dt: I think that either way, it's really an Ubuntu kernel though
<micahg> the login manager asks which DE you want, not grub
<len-dt> Yes, but the user might like to know which one they are booting
<micahg> so, it should say whether it's lowlatency or generic
<len-dt> Yes.
<len-dt> And probably only if both are present
<len-dt> micahg, it would probably be ok to have Ubuntu and Ubuntu low latency
<micahg> nah, I think it needs to be descriptive of what's installed, does it not do that now?
<len-dt> Not if you have more than one type.
<micahg> It should say Ubuntu, 3.5.0-18-generic; and Ubuntu, 3.5.0-18-lowlatency
<len-dt> That would be ok, but I think "they"  are trying to get away from scarey looking startups
<len-dt> "they" being whoever is setting up GRUB
<micahg> well, grub isn't shown by default
<micahg> you have to hold down shift or something
<len-dt> I think if we want it changed, we need to come up with a patch that leaves Ubuntu generic as is
<len-dt> Some do and some don't seem to. My wife's netbook always shows it
<len-dt> She has 12.04 vanilla
<len-dt> This machine shows it (12.10) but my netbook doesn't
<micahg> yes, but it should show up in the grub list as lowlatency if grub is shown
<micahg> *already show up
<len-dt> This one just shows Ubuntu
<len-dt> I agree the word low latency would be good
<micahg> yes, but in the version string it should show the flavor of the kernel
<len-dt> OK
<micahg> the structure is: platform, version-flavor
<len-dt> Sounds good, but right now it isn't
<micahg> ah, yes, so that's a bug then
<len-dt> I think the back kernels are though
<micahg> on 12.04?
<len-dt> I thought it had just been changed for 12.10
<len-dt> 12.10
<len-dt> 12.04 shows the whole thing
<micahg> Ubuntu 12.10, kernel 3.5.0-18-generic on my regular system
<len-dt> Interesting
<micahg> what does /boot/grub/menu.lst show?
 * micahg is also using the old grub though
<len-dt> that file is not here
<micahg> ok, check /boot/grub/grub.cfg
<len-dt> Where do I look?
<micahg> towards the end
<micahg> grep menuentry /boot/grub/grub.cfg
<len-dt> The ones under Advanced options for Ubuntu look good.
<len-dt> I'm going to reboot for a minute
<len-dt> micahg, things have changed. There is only one kernel on this drive. But it shows on the submenu.
<micahg> hrm, I'm not sure how that's supposed to work
<len-dt> So there is a "Ubuntu" entry that seems to point to the latest one on the drive. Then there is a submenu with the same kernel with full name and a second rescue entry.
<len-dt> It looks like as much as can be is hidden in sub menus.
<len-dt> We will have to document it a bit I think for those who want to use two kernel versions
<len-dt> as an aside, 10.10 was picked up but not my 12.04 drive.
<len-dt> I think it was mounted playing music during install :)
<Hypnotoad> len-dt: Yes, "ubuntu" was noticed by myself as well and counted as unacceptable and fixed. :P
<Hypnotoad> It is "normal" to have it like that.
<len-dt> if uninformative 
<len-dt> I think it does make sense for the vanilla out of the box experience... maybe not for Studio
<len-dt> ailo, another problem with volti... when I try it with my D66 it wants to control all my DACs with the volume control in the tray. And it locks them all to what ever the tray volume is set to.
<len-dt> So I can't even turn one of them down with mudita24 for example.
<ailo> len-dt: That's not the case for me
<len-dt> Last change was made in dec 2010.
<len-dt> gotta go. Yf needs help with schoolwork.
<len-dt> ailo,  may be you ADCs it locks. It locked those on me when I first started it.
<ailo> len-dt: Doesn't lock anything for me. the master volume isn't doing anything. But, while mudita24 receives changes to volumes from alsa, volti only seems to look up those during startup, so if I change a volume in mudita24, it won't change in volti
<ailo> I never actually tried any of the controls before. I guess I was mostly interested in that it lived in the systray. Yeah, it's not very mature
<ailo> len-dt: Perhaps we should instead add a starter for a generic alsa mixer in the volume tray?
<ailo> That would improve the chance for people with non standard cards to get their audio working
<astraljava> ailo: Backlog is TL;DR, why won't the Pulse mixer do? I'm still partial to getting it more wide-spread, and as it's the way vanilla wants to go, it'd be easier to follow. At least I'd like to get the issues fixed in PA, rather than switch back to alsa.
<ailo> astraljava: No ones talking about switching back to Alsa. Just adding asla controls to the PA area
<ailo> astraljava: Yes, it would be nice if the PA mixer also had all of the Alsa HW controls :)
<astraljava> But you can change what controls the mixer actually affects, so at least on Xfce, you can just add a new mixer applet, and have it control alsa instead. Though I haven't tested, but in theory, this should work, no?
<ailo> astraljava: I'm not on XFCE right now, but I believe the mixer started from the volume applet is pavucontrol
<astraljava> Adding two control areas in the volume tray just feels messy to me, but maybe that's just me. :)
<ailo> Well, it is messy already
<astraljava> Yes it is.
<astraljava> Yes it is.
<ailo> Clear naming would help
<astraljava> *smirk*
<astraljava> Hmm... will have to play tonight.
<astraljava> ailo: Ok, I only now read up on it on mailing list. I'll spend more time on investigating before giving further (lacking) opinions on the matter. :)
<ailo> astraljava: No worries. I often miss things because of the same reason. Not easy keeping track of everything being said
<ailo> But, if we document everything we want to do in blueprints, that will serve as a good reference point, I think
<astraljava> True dat.
<ailo> I'm going to the Ubuntu Developer Summit
<ailo> So, if anyone has any tips or thoughts, just let me know
<ailo> It's next week
<knome> ailo, ooh!
<knome> ailo, we should meet there then
<ailo> knome: Absolutely
<ailo> I haven't yet had the chance to look at where, when and how, other than it's in Copenhagen. I'll be staying with my uncle in MalmÃ¶ hopefulle
<astraljava> ailo: Please run the US flavor presentation, then! :)
<knome> ailo, heh :)
<ailo> astraljava: I was afraid someone would suggest something like that
<knome> ailo, we will be in copenhagen most of the day on friday too with pleia2, maybe you want to join us then too :)
<astraljava> *smirk*
<ailo> knome: I'll probably just be there during the three days
<knome> three?
<knome> ailo, uds is four days ;)
<ailo> Oh, well, four than :)
<ailo> knome: I'll see about Friday. I won't know until we get there :)
<knome> ailo, hehe. yeah, let's work on the details later
<ailo> Just called my uncle. He was sober, and willing to let me stay, so no I only need to book a train ticket
<knome> eh:)
<astraljava> That's the weirdest looking smiley I've ever seen. What is it supposed depict?
<knome> :P
<knome> a funny hat?
<astraljava> Is it a man wearing a cap, with a cat laying on top of that?
<knome> maybe
<astraljava> Or maybe pacman is about to eat the man wearing a cap.
<knome> ;)
<len-dt> astraljava, we don't (so far as I know) want to replace the tray mix app. pavucontrol is probably the best one.
<drupin> hey smartboyhw how ya buddy
<smartboyhw> Hi drupin 
<len-dt> however there are getting to be more USB mutitrack Audio IFs (4 and 8 and more tracks) that work with Linux and it would be nice to have a good ALSA mixer that people could use with them when using jackd.
<drupin> nice to see you master
<smartboyhw> ailo, youa re sure gonna do that Ubuntu Studio UDS talk:P
<smartboyhw> Ah ailo-w actually:P
<astraljava> len-dt: Thanks, yeah I got my confusion sorted with ailo already. :)
 * smartboyhw finds today's logs more difficult to consume than yesterday:D
<drupin> which log master
<smartboyhw> drupin, 1. stop calling me as master and 2. The channel logs which you can find in irclogs.ubuntu.com
<ailo-w> smartboyhw: I haven't come that far yet, but if it serves a purpose, I will, since from what I understand, I will be the only participant from Ubuntu Studio
<ailo-w> I'll be meeting the kernel team about -lowlatency
<smartboyhw> ailo-w, wait aren't scott-work attending?
<ailo-w> And have the chance to hang out with the guy(s) from Xubuntu, etc
<drupin> ok
<astraljava> smartboyhw: I believe he said he couldn't take that trip this time.
<smartboyhw> astraljava, ah...... ailo-w good that you are attending, if not there will be NOBODY:D
<astraljava> smartboyhw: It's fine, it's not mandatory.
<smartboyhw> astraljava, :D
<ailo-w> I'm taking the chance, as it's only about 300km from here
<smartboyhw> Hey scott-work ailo-w will be attending UDS I think assign him to the Ubuntu studio session on UDS:P
<drupin> ohh god so many channels in log
<scott-work> morning smartboyhw 
<scott-work> len-dt: good email about ugprades, panels, etc
<ailo-w> scott-work: morning
<scott-work> morning ailo-w 
<scott-work> ailo-w: didn't you have a wiki link in your email about brainstorming for R?
<scott-work> i coldn't find it
<scott-work> although i really thought i had seen one
<smartboyhw> scott-work, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/PreliminaryBlueprintsDraft1304
<scott-work> len-dt: your email touches on several points that i had thought about and is what i was suggesting about mission statement, etc
<ailo-w> scott-work: I'm kind in the middle of cleaning up the wiki. There is a link for it now in UbuntuStudio Team Resources page
<scott-work> len-dt: i think we also need to discuss and define clearly what the purpose of the releases
<scott-work> len-dt: i.e. lts->lts are production machines and everything between is just for play
<scott-work> which means we may choose NOT to support lts->whatever or whatever->lts for upgrades, but we WILL support (somehow) lts->lts upgrades, maybe not
<ailo-w> scott-work: Old pages are put under "Old Pages" in this page, temporarily https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/TeamResources
<scott-work> ailo-w: i had a 'deprecated pages' somewhere also
<smartboyhw> ailo, good page
<scott-work> just for the same purpose, we probably should consolidate them
<ailo-w> scott-work: There is one in the community wiki, but haven't seen one in the regular wiki
<scott-work> ailo-w: is there any talk about when we should sort through the suggestions and pick/prioritize?
<scott-work> ailo-w: ah! i believe you are right
<smartboyhw> scott-work, on the "start meeting " part in your mail I think the best time should be around this time or so (aka 13:30 UTC to 15:00 UTC since almost everyone is here:P)
<ailo-w> scott-work: Now that you're back, I think you should handle that. But, one important thing I will be doing this cycle is to document all the steps during the development process. So, I'd appreciate if we could go through many of the things you and others do during next cycle
<smartboyhw> scott-work, I wonder about something: Can we revive https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/ReportingPage back ?
<ailo-w> scott-work: Like, when and how the blueprints should be listed
<ailo-w> scott-work: Yea, so, I am attending UDS, as it's close to my home terf
<smartboyhw> Yeah when UDS goes to Asia I will attend:P
<smartboyhw> ailo-w, you live in Europe right?
<ailo-w> scott-work: Never mind the spelling :). You were there last year, correct?
<ailo-w> smartboyhw: Sweden, yes
<ailo-w> scott-work: Or, this year even? Anyway, I just wanted to let you know, and if you have any suggestions, just let me know
<knome> ailo-w, blueprints should be filed under correct names and then be proposed to the "track leads" so they can schedule them
<ailo-w> knome: Yeah. I think scott-work will do that. So far, we're just brainstorming, and collecting ideas.
<knome> ailo-w, oh, ok.
 * smartboyhw is thinking of what to add to the blueprint suggestions:D
<ailo-w> scott-work: I'm meeting up with the kernel team to discuss -lowlatency. A new source tree for Precise is already done. I will be testing it this afternoon. 
<smartboyhw> ailo-w, didn't you already take over the maintenance of precise -lowlatency ?
<ailo-w> scott-work: We'll be going through the specifics of uploading the source, etc. So, by the end of UDS, I'll probably have that item in place.
<ailo-w> smartboyhw: Nope, but we were discussing it.
<smartboyhw> ailo-w, oh.....I thought you already did:P
<ailo-w> smartboyhw: The kernel for Precise hasn't been updated for a few months now, but will be soon :)
<ailo-w> Something like 100+ bug fixes since then
<smartboyhw> ailo-w, yeah saw it in kernel.ubuntu.com/git for the ubuntu-precise-lowlatency.git by apw:D
<ailo-w> Ok, busy day. Going home. bbs
<len-dt> scott-work, our support for graphics needs some work. We may have to work with xfce devs to get what we need.
<len-dt> the display settings app needs to have color support as well as dual monitor support
<len-dt> in some ways it may be easier to use a gnome wm with the xfce panels.
<len-dt> But I should at least play with some of this stuff as is. I think getting rid of thunar as a desktop would be a good idea though.
 * len-dt has a wandering mind this morning.
<smartboyhw> len-dt, LOL
<len-dt> we do need to be able to have the right ICC file loaded at login though
<len-dt> The user should not have to write a script to do so.
<smartboyhw> len-dt, if the user has to write a script they will not use Ubuntu Studio, so let's forget about that:P
<len-dt> Having xfce display settings able to do dual monitors would be nice too... as it saves the settings from session to session.
<len-dt> smartboyhw, that is why we need to do it for them and have a gui to set it up
<smartboyhw> :D
<len-dt> I am just not sure if we should have one big control app to do audio/graphics/video set up or smaller applets for each
<len-dt> I think smaller applets so the right one can be part of the associated meta.
<len-dt> scott-work, I think we need to put the same energy into our other workflows as we have to audio
 * len-dt is off to work.
<len-dt> bye all
<smartboyhw> len-dt, bye
<scott-work> ailo: i was at the last uds, yes
<scott-work> ailo: i don't mind creating and filing the blueprints
<scott-work> smartboyhw: i would like to get back to the reporting, yes
<smartboyhw> scott-work, yeah
<scott-work> ailo: good news about the kernel, that is awesome actually
<scott-work> len-dt: i really thought there was an icc manager, and i thought we included it, although i suppose it might be a command line application
<scott-work> len-dt: agreed about the other workflows and giving it thought, i am hoping to translate my experience with video and graphics into an improved workflow for each, not great perhaps, but certainly better, although i probably will not be able to help much with photography or publishing at this point
<ailo> scott-work: Actually, I would like to do the blueprints myself, if it's ok with you? Now that I've started the process. Deadline at around feature freeze, right?
<scott-work> ailo: oh sure, that would be awesome
<smartboyhw> ailo, er shouldn't that be the project lead's job? 
<smartboyhw> Anyway scott-work says yes
<smartboyhw> I don't think the deadline is feature freeze though
<smartboyhw> ailo, better to ask skaet on #ubuntu-release
<scott-work> smartboyhw: i would expect that we, as a group, will decide on what we want to do, so getting the blueprints together is more of a technicality at that point
<scott-work> but i really want us to focus on making reasonable goals this cycle
<ailo> smartboyhw: Well, let me rephrase. Feature Definition Freeze
<ailo> It's Nov 22
<smartboyhw> scott-work, at the moment I think the work items are great, just that we need to decide who should work on it sicne last cycle we got a lot of POSTPONED items (except len-dt )
<smartboyhw> ailo, ah OK now I understand:P
<scott-work> a good process might be to aggregate the list, make a first pass at what we think would be good, have people commit to tasks, and then re-evaluate the list per commitments
<scott-work> if we don't have commitments for tasks then we might drop those for this cycle
<ailo> I think everyone will do what they know and like to do, and we just make sure not two people are doing the same work twice
<smartboyhw> scott-work, since you wanted to start meetings: Maybe we should plan a meeting to approve those workitems on the blueprints and that who should do it
<scott-work> smartboyhw: that is a good idea
<smartboyhw> :D
<scott-work> although i am not sure that during the week, at least at this current time, is good for me to attend meetings, much less lead them
<ailo> Somewhere around one week before feature definition freeze
<smartboyhw> scott-work, maybe ailo should lead then
<scott-work> i cannot commit to contiguous uninterrupted time at any point throughout the work day
<smartboyhw> ailo, look at this
<smartboyhw> <skaet> smartboyhw,  blueprints should be registered and accepted prior to the start of UDS if they need to be discussed there.   Otherwise, blueprints are accepted until planning freeze.
<smartboyhw> <skaet> oops... s/planning freeze/feature definition freeze/
<smartboyhw> ailo, so you are correct 
<scott-work> i've got to do some work for a bit
<smartboyhw> bye scott-work 
<ailo> smartboyhw: We were talking about using social channels for news reporting. Anything Ubuntu Studio related, really. There are channels called Ubuntu Studio on facebook, and g+
<ailo> smartboyhw: Maybe you would like to be a part of generating the content?
<smartboyhw> ailo, for g+
<smartboyhw> I don't have facebook but I do have g_
<smartboyhw> *g+
<smartboyhw> ailo, I can help:D
<ailo> smartboyhw: Not from your own account. Scott is the admin of those accounts. But someone needs to produce the content too
<smartboyhw> ailo, I can
<smartboyhw> I do write things on 2buntu.com (aka the unofficial Ask Ubuntu guys blog)
<ailo> Those would be official Ubuntu Studio channels, but from my point of view, and I'm sure I'm not alone, the content could be quite liberal, as long as it's somehow related to Ubuntu Studio and linux multimedia
<smartboyhw> So I have some experience
<smartboyhw> ailo, :D
<ailo> smartboyhw: Ok, well. That is one of the blueprint items we need to go through during this cycle anyway
<smartboyhw> ailo, :D
<smartboyhw> ailo, for https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/PostRelease you said "Update topics on ubuntustudio IRC channels" that is real difficult, only some people have op rights (I don't think you have too)
<ailo> smartboyhw: Optimally it would fall under one persons responsibilities to do those things
<ailo> smartboyhw: It's like playing football. If everyone is chasing the ball, who is guarding the goal?
<ailo> smartboyhw: Everyone does their bit, to which they are assigned. Someone should with the proper rights handles the irc channels
<ailo> smartboyhw: I know it is not always like that, as you have seen. 
<ailo> smartboyhw: But, in general, it is IMO the only sane approach to team work
<ailo> smartboyhw: You are young, ambitious, and willing to participate
<ailo> smartboyhw: My advice to you is to find work items that are suitable for you. Either ones that already exist, or you suggest new ones, and then focus on them
<smartboyhw> ailo, ok.....Just wonder who CAN do the job.....
<ailo> smartboyhw: Do what job?
<smartboyhw> ailo, the "change the topic of IRC channels"
<ailo> smartboyhw: A few people. I haven't kept track of that.
<holstein> smartboyhw: i can change the topic in #ubuntustudio
<smartboyhw> ailo, give it to holstein then
<holstein> smartboyhw: just ping me or whatever.. this is the first cycle i have been able to, and forgot :)
<smartboyhw> holstein, LOL
<holstein> i used to ping someone and ask
<smartboyhw> bye ailo holstein scott-work 
<scott-work> smartboyhw: i think holstein, astraljava , and myself can change the IRC topic now, in both channels
<scott-work> by smartboyhw 
<holstein> smartboyhw: i wouldnt worry about the topic here too much
<smartboyhw> gotcha sleep worrying about the Open Week session tmr:P
<holstein> smartboyhw: o/
<smartboyhw> ailo, prepare for your session on 17:30 UTC:P
<ailo> smartboyhw: Don't worry about me :)
<ailo> smartboyhw: Good luck tomorrow
<smartboyhw> ailo, OK. Just that you need to prepare (as told by many people who have done the sessions before). Bye
<ailo> Seems like I messed up the IRC session
<ailo> Well, one learns
<knome> hehe:)
<scott-work> ailo: if you are going to UDS-R, would you mind doing a very short presentation on where ubuntu studio is going?
<ailo> scott-work: No problem. I already mailed jorge
<ailo> scott-work: It's only something like 5 mins, right?
<scott-work> ailo: cool. i think it might even be less than that. we were supposed to do 2.5 minutes last time
<ailo> scott-work: Yeah, that's almost a little comical
<ailo> scott-work: I can do some kind of draft during the coming couple of days, and present it to you
<ailo> In case you have ideas and opinions
<scott-work> ailo: to be honest, i think this fits in nicely with deriving a roadmap for the next few cycle
<ailo> scott-work: That is something that I wouldn't mind discussing actually
<ailo> scott-work: A roadmap for the future that is
<ailo> scott-work: One of my main concersn at the moment is how do we get more activity into Ubuntu Studio development. Especially how do we integrate people who are willing to help, but not experienced in any of the sort of tasks we do, plus the structure of the whole things. 
<scott-work> like someone mentioned in the blueprint planning page, having things spelled out (in blueprints, roadmaps, documentation) will probably lower the threshold for involvement and encourage more people to help....hopefully
<ailo> scott-work: So, what I see as an answer to that problem is of course communicating outwards, and clearly so, that we need help, and that anyone can help. But, before we can do that.
<ailo> ..we need docs, right
<ailo> So, that is my main priority for this cycle
<scott-work> so this cycle could be setting documentation for dev and testing as main priorities
<scott-work> oh, hehe, you typed the same basically :P
<ailo> :)
<ailo> scott-work: About workflow applications. That is a bit different I think. For that, you need software developer(s). If you can find someone that is willing to do the coding, we already have willing testers, and people in the community who can provide good feedback
<ailo> scott-work: Another thing, which I adressed a bit during the Open Week IRC chat, is we should become better att communicating upstream about bugs and issues
<ailo> On that part, we do need docs for people who don't know how that all connects
<ailo> And, we need people willing to spend time on it too
<ailo> For one thing, we have a pretty serious bug with qjackctl + jackdbus, which is existing on both 12.04 and 12.10
<ailo> That kind of thing we should be able to solve, one way or another.
<ailo> Well, those kind of bugs don't happen that often, but when they do, it would be nice if we could squash them
<scott-work> ailo: very true about the bugs
<scott-work> ailo: for the work flow applications, i feel very strongly about that we should develop a specification for this, especially if non-ubuntu studio developers are going to work on it
<scott-work> i would be most happy to help in this regard
<ailo> scott-work: Sounds like a good idea to me
<scott-work> i should note that i am beginning to work on an animation that would show how i think a few things could work that users would appreciate
<ailo> That should be most helpful in deed
<scott-work> this is "pie in the sky" ideas. not everyone will agree with them and some might not be practical to develop
<scott-work> BUT, it will give an indication of how things _could_ change, and this might inspire someone as well :)
<ailo> I've done some UI developing, and even if I get something done which I'm pleased with, if I start again from scratch, it usually ends up being a bit different and improved each time
<ailo> But, you gotta start somewhere
<ailo> Impossible to plan things like that in advance. Each time you try it in practice, your idea of it changes
<ailo> scott-work: Like Eisenhower said, "Plans are worthless, but planning is everything"
<ailo> scott-work: Would you mind if I add your blueprint suggestions to the blueprint draft wiki page? I wouldn't mind just going through everything, just to keep track of things
<scott-work> ailo: absolutely, i'll be added some of my other things to it tonight or tomorrow
 * scott-work printed the wiki and the email thread and has correlated both and made notes of things to add
<ailo> scott-work: I won't do anything just now, but sometime tomorrow morning (just about to hit the hay sack). When America sleeps, and Europeans are silently working (for some strange reason the channels are awefully quite during European work hours)
<scott-work> hehe, i won't be doing anything for several hours at the soonest
<ailo> I don't know if that means Europeans are actually busy slaving, or if they're just very asocial sort of people
<scott-work> but i am going home early, it's been quite a day today at work
<scott-work> i might log in to irc later tonight though
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-10-25
<smartboyhw> ailo-w, wait a minute I saw yesterday's logs and found that genii-around is doing the session for you or am I wrong?
<smartboyhw> ailo, ^
<ailo> smartboyhw: No, he pasted my writing in
<smartboyhw> ailo, oh why?
<ailo> smartboyhw: No one told me I needed to authorize the session myself
<smartboyhw> ailo, er............ what?
<ailo> So, when it was my time, the place was pretty emtpy
<ailo> I did my thing in #ubuntu-classroom-chat, and genii-around pasted the text for me, for the logs
<smartboyhw> Hmm pretty weird......:P
<ailo> smartboyhw: Apparently, you need a Ubuntu irc cloak to be able to do the athorization
<smartboyhw> Anyway we aren't including Wubi right? There was a bug 1070682
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1070682 in Ubuntu Studio "wubi and ubuntu studio" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1070682
<ailo> smartboyhw: Head to #ubuntu-classroom-backstage in good time, to get some info, etc
<ailo> smartboyhw: Let's add that to the blueprints (I'll do it)
<smartboyhw> ailo, actually I tell you what... That was the organizer's problem
<smartboyhw> Apparently they forgot to put you into the fridge calendar for Ubuntu Learning events, so you don't get to be authorized
<smartboyhw> ailo, I may go and ask why they forgot
<ailo> smartboyhw: Well, I think he thought I knew how things worked. Doesn't matter. I only got one questions, so I don't think anyone missed anything
<ailo> smartboyhw: Forget about it
<smartboyhw> ailo, Ah:P
<smartboyhw> Yeah anyway:P
<smartboyhw> ailo, you created the blueprint already? Good
<ailo> smartboyhw: Yes, I'm starting some work on that now. It's still in drafting stage, so please use the wiki until the launchpad blueprint is ready (I should have waited with subscribing everyone, thinking of it)
<smartboyhw> LOL
<smartboyhw> ailo, I have a thought: Since we are gonna focus on development and testing, can we add a ubuntustudio-r-testing or ubuntustudio-r-development that sort of thing? I would love to see a seperate blueprint for testing
<smartboyhw> ailo-w, ^
<ailo> smartboyhw: Would you mind writing about that on the mail list? As for development, no. Cause the whole blueprint is development
<smartboyhw> ailo, :D
<ailo> smartboyhw: As for testing, all I can think of is docs for testing, which is already suggested
<ailo> smartboyhw: I will try to organize the blueprints as well as I can, according to what people suggest, and how I interpret their suggestions
<smartboyhw> ailo, actually I think of one work item now. How do we PROMOTE to contribute for us? We have developer documentation, but then how can we attract them to help?
<ailo> smartboyhw: That is also something under development
<smartboyhw> ailo, gd:P
<ailo> smartboyhw: We don't have dev docs yet, which we need before we start inviting lots of people
<ailo> smartboyhw: Since you are interested in testing, I would suggest you think more about that.
<smartboyhw> ailo, I think I will do the testing documentation:D (Mostly copied from Wiki pages, and my session about 3.25 hours later)
<ailo> smartboyhw: You are welcome to do that. And please be prepared for opinions about it. I, especially will want to review everything doc related
<ailo> smartboyhw: You can start working on things even before there's a blueprint or a workitem for it
<smartboyhw> ailo, yeah you are the doc lead. What opinions do you want to list
<ailo> smartboyhw: Just that you make sure, it's not already under development
<smartboyhw> ailo, OK
<ailo> smartboyhw: I don't have any opinions before I have something to have opinions about :)
<smartboyhw> LOL
<ailo> smartboyhw: But, as you already know, we will want the testing to be multimedia specific mostly, and leave Ubuntu/Xubuntu testing for those distros
<smartboyhw> ailo, ok:P
<smartboyhw> Hi scott-work came so early?
<scott-work> goog morning smartboyhw , yes, i did. i spent the majority of my day in meetings and addressing problems for others that i couldn't get my own work done
<smartboyhw> scott-work, ah
<scott-work> but such is the life of a supervisor/acting-manager
<smartboyhw> scott-work, add oil
<ailo> Recently, I'm not eating as well, cause I'm too busy to work out. This is not good :(. I'll need to bring my running shoes to UDS
<astraljava> smartboyhw: I don't think a separate testing blueprint for a particular flavor makes much sense, unless it's a very specific area of testing. Only things that I can come up with would be related to some diverse multimedia-related tools.
<scott-work> add oil? i do not understand
<smartboyhw> scott-work, it means giving support (in Hong Kong-ese:P)
<scott-work> ailo: i am excited for you to go to UDS!
<smartboyhw> astraljava, ah alright
<scott-work> it was a very, very moving and inspirational moment for me
<smartboyhw> One day if UDS is coming to Hong Kong (just mentioned in Ask Mark Session) I will attend for sure
<ailo> scott-work: Yeah, it will be great fun to meet some of the people you only see nick names for
<scott-work> the biggest suggestion i can think of is to introduce yourself to as many people as you can and build relationships
<ailo> We will need to do documentation for testing, so it at least falls under that category
<scott-work> the second biggest suggestion is to write people's names down :P
<ailo> scott-work: Yeah, that's usually not my strong point, but I'm planning to :)
<astraljava> smartboyhw: If you're interested in developing the testing process, you should talk to Nick and Gema, and Phill. I'm sure they'll have blueprints dedicated for such things.
<ailo> scott-work: And, remembering names is another problem I have
<smartboyhw> astraljava, I need to wait for Nick to finish his holiday:P
 * scott-work actually had to write down names and a short sentence describing them, perhaps a visual cue or a personality type
<astraljava> Yeah ok, but then that means that side of dev hasn't started yet.
<smartboyhw> astraljava, I will ask don't worry;p
<smartboyhw> scott-work, LOL
<scott-work> i would expect that we would have a more generalized 'documentation' blueprint, perhaps?
<scott-work> for dev stuff, user stuff, testing stuff, maybe "our" dev stuff
<ailo> scott-work: I've only started the blueprints, but I'm actually dividing docs into subgroups
<scott-work> define where stuff goes, i.e. on the website or the wiki
<scott-work> etc, etc, etc
<ailo> I don't think we need to decide where things end up as a first step
<smartboyhw> scott-work, he did I think
<scott-work> i was going to look at the blueprint brainstorming page again this morning, look at your additions, and make any changes
<smartboyhw> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/topic-ubuntustudio-r-documentation
<ailo> First create the material, then edit it
<scott-work> ailo: i meant, more of where the documentation should reside
<scott-work> i feel pretty strongly that all user docs should be on the website
<smartboyhw> scott-work, I feel very strongly that basic user docs should be on the computer
<scott-work> the dev stuff (both for us and new devs) and maybe the testing stuff might be on the wiki
<scott-work> lol, smartboyhw 
<ailo> scott-work: Yeah, I know. But, first we need to create the docs, so where they go may be a question answered best after we have it done
<smartboyhw> scott-work, not lol It is a belief for me
<smartboyhw> The dev stuff should be on wiki though, makes more sense
<scott-work> i would go to the point of saying that i would "abandon" the user.ubuntu.com pages since my experience has been that most users (who are not also into ubuntu) find out information, including download links, from the website
<scott-work> therefore, i would say the website should be the nexus for all user information and activities
<ailo> Currently, I'm not sure we will get a full user documentation in place for this cycle. I know I can do the audio workflow, and some general stuff, etc. But, to do the other workflows would mean a lot of investigation and research for me, which I will not have time for
<scott-work> ailo: understood. i can help with the video and graphics (not make them great, but certainly improve them) and photogrphay and publishing might have to wait until next cycle
<scott-work> ailo: i wanted to ask, why does all the headings have "Q-" before them? should it be "R-"?
<ailo> I think the community wiki is a good place to start, and once we have something that is good enough for the website, we can always just copy and paste
<smartboyhw> scott-work, ailo did change the headings
<ailo> scott-work: I changed that :P
<scott-work> ailo: good. i was confused for a bit :)
<ailo> scott-work: I didn't know what they were for, until I started thinking more about it. Just used them as headings
<ailo> I'm going back to the "office"
<scott-work> ailo: i suppose i have two main concerns about the docs: i already mentioned that i believe most users go to the website primarily for information, but also i wanted to avoid doubling our efforts to maintain two sets of docs
 * scott-work realizes that "doubling efforts" isn't literallly 2x the work in this case
<smartboyhw> I think the most important thing is: Can ailo handle BOTH docs at a time
<ailo> scott-work: The wiki can be scrapped, later. Or used in some other way. But, it is a much better place to work from initially, I feel
<ailo> I don't propose dual sets of docs. Just one for development, and perhaps when it is done, another for publishing
<ailo> bbs
<scott-work> good point about starting in the wiki
<scott-work> i think ai.lo said this in the wiki page, but i really would like to aggressively campaign for crowdsourcing more contributions from users, like art, etc
<scott-work> i should also point out that dick macinnis has (and probably still is) functioning as "art lead"
<scott-work> he is capable and wants to collaborate on ideas as well
<scott-work> and hopefully to avoid an conflict, this isn't a binary situation; this or that. we can still crowdsource art but also have dick macinnis sort through or work with user submissions
<ailo-w> heh, back at the office, and again, heading home
<smartboyhw> ........What?
<astraljava> scott-work: Cool. Is he ever on in here?
<scott-work> astraljava: sometimes he comes on, but not very often at all
<astraljava> What's his nick of choice, then?
<scott-work> he is a working musician so i'm not sure how often he has time to idle here
<astraljava> Oh, I'm not worrying about that.
<astraljava> scott-work: Your opinion on Between the Buried And Me?
<smartboyhw> Who?
<ailo> That was a well spent half an hour :P. Well, i got that excercise I was just complaining about not getting
<scott-work> astraljava: i haven't heard much from them, probably just a song or two on the radio
 * scott-work is pretty insular these days about music and listens to mostly talk radio or podcasts
 * scott-work admits he is getting old :P
<smartboyhw> scott-work, LOL
<scott-work> astraljava: i did manage to find a way to discard all emails from a particular domain in mailman
 * scott-work is tired of having to discard the practically daily emails from @loresiaroles.com
<smartboyhw> LOL
<knome> scott-work, are you sure that works? i think i did some filtering and that made everything not pass O:)
<scott-work> in Privacy options... -> Sender Filters i added      ^[^@]+@loresiaroles\.com$
<knome> mmh
<scott-work> which i know have an email notification of an auto-discard
<scott-work> knome: i dug into the mailman docs to find this
<knome> hehe
<scott-work> i was worried as well because it looks scary :P
<astraljava> scott-work: Cool. I assume we won't run into many issues before the cd build mails start coming in again. :)
<scott-work> i (and others apparently) were trying the wildcard *@loresiaroles.com which wasn't working
<scott-work> lol, astraljava , true, but hopefully these work again
<scott-work> one goal for me this cycle is to start creating informative/tutorial videos for ubuntu studio
<scott-work> it would be nice to also add voice over translations as well
<scott-work> youtube allows for subtitles easily, but it would be very nice if we could have audio translations for each of the videos as well
<scott-work> i would happily and easily replace the english audio with other languages if they could be provided
<knome> does vimeo or some other service support that then?
<scott-work> knome: i do not know much about vimeo, i have used it some in the past, but not recently
<scott-work> quick google search does not show that vimeo can do subtitles at this point
<scott-work> although there are third party apps to do this
<scott-work> of course it could also be simply added to the video itself, regardless of where it is hosted
<knome> mm
<scott-work> i believe youtube would allow you to host a single video but add various subtitle translations to that file
<knome> mmh, don't know
<scott-work> i would expect that people would prefer to have the audio in their native language rather than a subtitle translation
<scott-work> which results in more videos (of the same content) but this is hosting/player agnostic then
<scott-work> either way, i plan to start within a month or so
<scott-work> i'll keep the original files so translations can be sussed out at some point if we decide to do them
<scott-work> knome: what application is the xubuntu help in?
<scott-work> yelp?
<knome> scott-work, firefocx
<knome> -c
<scott-work> oh, is that like html?
<knome> yep
<scott-work> okay. that seems like a better way to do than a particular application format
<scott-work> i think yelp is a restaurant rating service now that i think about it. i wonder what application i was thinking about.
<smartboyhw> LOL
<smartboyhw> restaurant rating;P
<knome> yelp probably
<knome> i think the gnome docs are on yelp, and that's why yelp is on xubuntu too
<scott-work> smartboyhw: really...http://www.yelp.com/houston
<scott-work> oh, so yelp is both, and i was right...and wrong :P
<scott-work> what is nice about html is that i believe you can create and edits the docs in libre office or even microsoft word, and export to html
<knome> urrr.. 
<knome> well
<knome> they export awful html
<knome> xubuntu docs are in docbook and converted to html
<scott-work> ah, that is good to know
<scott-work> question: does anyone else use different background images (or wallpapers) for the different workspaces or monitors?
<knome> well, we used to ship two wallpapers for precise, left and right, for this purpose
<smartboyhw> No
<len-dt> scott-work, once I get working not much of the BG shows anyway :)
<ailo> scott-work: Feels like we're really putting up high goals for this release
<smartboyhw> ailo, we ARE:D 
<ailo> We really should try get more people involved. I'll work double time on dev docs for this reason
<smartboyhw> ailo, WOW.................... 
 * smartboyhw is amazed
<ailo> hmm, not much use looking at the dependency tree https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/topic-r-flavor-ubuntustudio
<len-dt> ailo, ya I can't read it :)
<len-dt> The tool tips work though and I can read those.
 * len-dt is off to work...
<ailo> len-dt: Ah, good
<ailo> I should probably rename them to something short and easily read
<holstein> ailo: how did the presentation go?
<ailo> holstein: I was never athorized to #ubuntu-classroom when I was to go on, so I did my thing at #ubuntustudio-chate
<ailo> #ubuntustudio-classroom-chat *
<scott-work> knome: do you recall the name of the package you include the help files or the release notes?
<ailo> Someone was kind to paste the entire session to the correct channel afterwards. I only got one question
<scott-work> oh, i had a comment on my blog i wanted to share, let me dig it up
<scott-work> Hey there ubuntu, Just installed 12.10 over 12.04 Don't know what you guys did, it works at least 10% faster. Great job. 
<scott-work> this was for the ubuntu studio 12.10 release announcement so i'm pretty sure he knew this was about ubuntu STUDIO, but again, maybe not
<holstein> yeah... thats a good comment
<scott-work> it probably will make len-dt feel good about his work :)
<smartboyhw> lol
<holstein> for that one person and hardware case... though i fine 12.10 peppy too
<holstein> find*
<scott-work> did we ever change the website to announce 12.10 release?
 * holstein checks
<ailo> scott-work: It's announced in the news page
<ailo> But, we don't have anything on the front page
<holstein> http://ubuntustudio.org/download/ is up to date it seems
<ailo> It's all up to date
<holstein> yeah... i think its good like that
<holstein> when you hit download, you get the current iso
<ailo> We could add a new slide for, 12.10 just released
<holstein> eh.. i say keep it easy
<holstein> now we just edit some text to stay up to date
<ailo> It's not a big thing to do, adding one slide. Just write some text, and add a picture for it. Commonly, you have some sort of news on the front page about new releases
<ailo> You can either write some text on the page itself, or add a slide (if it's the first in line, it will be the first thing you see when you open the site)
<ailo> holstein: Just look at any other derivative
<ailo> Or, Ubuntu itself
 * smartboyhw is back
<smartboyhw> from the session
<scott-work> in ways i miss having the news items on the home page (but realizes others don't feel the same)
<scott-work> but ubuntu and kubuntu has a either an image stating "*buntu 12.10" and/or a button to download 12.10
<scott-work> xubuntu has a "blog feed" section that shows xubuntu 12.10 as released
<scott-work> therefore all have it announce in some way on the landing page
<scott-work> heh, lubuntu also has it posted on their landing page as a news feed
<smartboyhw> we should yhen
<smartboyhw> *then
<scott-work> i think it was stochasti that was a big fan of keeping the landing page clean
 * scott-work isn't implying that this is the way it _should_ be, just noted who he remembered favoured this approach
<smartboyhw> scott-work, LOL
<smartboyhw> What I think is that: Why can't we announce alpha and beta releases on the website?
<smartboyhw> Only final releases available: Too dull
<ailo> That would be a good idea, to get more testers
<ailo> An idea for next time around
<smartboyhw> :D
<ailo> astraljava: I think I found a way to use the ubuntustudio team for a good purpose further on
<smartboyhw> ailo, oh?
<ailo> astraljava: We should start sending mails to that team on things like asking for participants for testing, etc
<smartboyhw> ailo, ah good suggestion, but then we already have the -users mailing list for that...
<ailo> I think people who join that team probably were hoping to contribute in one way or another
<ailo> smartboyhw: We don't need to put all our eggs in one basket
<smartboyhw> ailo, !?
<smartboyhw> can't understand this acronym
<ailo> smartboyhw: If the basket falls, all eggs are broken. If you use many baskets, a few eggs spilled is not the end of the world
<ailo> It's a common saying
<smartboyhw> OK so Basket 1. -users mail list 2. ~ubuntustudio LP team 3. -devel mail list 4. ubuntustudio.org am I wrong?
<ailo> smartboyhw: http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/put+all+eggs+in+one+basket
<ailo> smartboyhw: In this case, we have a team which we are not using for anything good.
<smartboyhw> Ok sorry I don't know much about idioms
<ailo> So, why not use it for something, which I believe it's members are even expecting it to be used for
<smartboyhw> ailo, make good use of it and wait: Isn't there a ~ubuntustudio-testing LP team?
<ailo> smartboyhw: Yes. But the person who has that team is not active right now.
<ailo> All though, we should try to put all teams into good use
<ailo> the ubuntustudio team would be a good way to reach users who might want to help
<smartboyhw> ailo, I may contact that person to take over the ~ubuntustudio-testers team to you or me then. Will try
<smartboyhw> ailo, wait that guy is stochastic !
<ailo> Ah, he's online even
<ailo> smartboyhw: Well, go ahead and ask
<smartboyhw> OK
<smartboyhw> stochastic, you here?
<smartboyhw> PING
<ailo> stochastic: As perhaps you read from the backscroll (when you returned), we were wondering if it were possible to overtake the -testing team. smartboyhw would probably like to use it for something (yet undefined)
<ailo> holstein: Something you could do? https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntustudio-r-public-relations
<ailo> Ah, I still need to work on the wiki page a bit, but one could start looking at how to reach out in the media
<smartboyhw> public relations!
<ailo> Yeah, sounds really professional. Let's try to make it that too
<smartboyhw> If holstein can do it, should we learn Xubuntu for having a marketing lead
<smartboyhw> and get holstein to do it
<smartboyhw> God that blueprint dependency tree is killing me...How on Earth do we have so many blueprints?
<ailo> I think they could have made the imaging of it a bit more flexible
<ailo> But, the dependency tree is not that important
<ailo> It's the workitems
<ailo> And we should try to get people to work on specific blueprints, so not everyone is working on everything
<smartboyhw> As I say I will mainly work on the testing documentation
<smartboyhw> So maybe we could do "Assignee" changed?
<smartboyhw> *changes
<ailo> smartboyhw: You remember when I talked about how it's bad if everyone in a football team are all chasing the ball?
<smartboyhw> ailo, stop using idioms please.......:(
<ailo> smartboyhw: I will take care of the details, but if you do spot something that is not right, please do tell
<smartboyhw> Just talk straight
<scott-work> i have items that i would like to add to the public relations blueprint. quite a lot actually :D
<smartboyhw> bye all anyway:P
<ailo> see you around smartboyhw 
<scott-work> i wouldn't mind heading that blueprint up if no one in particular feels strongly about doing it
<scott-work> by smartboyhw 
<ailo> scott-work: Go crazy, why not?
<scott-work> hehe
<ailo> It was the first blueprint I started adding workitems for
<smartboyhw> ailo, add oil:P
<scott-work> lol, he keeps telling me that as well
<ailo> Yeah, seems like common expression in HK
<ailo> To boost morale, perhaps
<scott-work> i am thinking that the PR wiki page could be the final result of the blueprint using the whiteboard (on the blueprint) to suss out the details and include notes
<scott-work> wow, poorly written sentence
<ailo> IRC curse, inflicting on your writing skills
<scott-work> got a meeting, be back in a bit
<ailo> yeah
<stochastic> scott-work, I just received a request from smartboyhw to take over ownership of the ubuntustudio-testers group in launchpad.  Currently I'm listed as the owner.  I'm curious if I should instead change the owner to ubuntustudio-devs
<micahg> personally, I think the owner should be the project lead with the testing lead as an admin
<ailo> Ah, yeah. That should work
<stochastic> so is scott the project lead currently?
<ailo> stochastic: Yep
<stochastic> what reasons for this more specific ownership scheme do you suggest micahg?  If the dev team collectively owns the testing team then turnover in the project lead position will have less impact on the group itself.
<stochastic> and less paperwork to alter
<micahg> stochastic: project lead has final say on who runs the testing team (owner can add/modify/remove users), testing lead can add/modify/remove users, but not the owner)
<ailo> Also, not all teams can have admins, or?
<holstein> ailo: im not saying you cant or shouldnt add a slide
<holstein> ailo: im just saying, right now, its easy for me to ask knome to update a little text
<ailo> holstein: I do the updating for the most part
<ailo> holstein: We have team for that, you know
<holstein> ailo: sure.. go for it
<holstein> ailo: but, if you are busy, and its says "new release 12.10 and its may 2013...
<micahg> admin for testing lead only makes sense if the idea is to build a team and the lead has been told to find more people 
<stochastic> micahg, okay, but why not just set the developer team as the owner?
<holstein> ailo: im most just thinking future proof... and easy admin-ing.. but like i said, i have no problems with a sile
<holstein> slide*
<micahg> stochastic: that would allow any member of the dev team to "in theory" hijack the team, also, owner decides who's a member/admin and who isn't, it doesn't seem to make sense for the dev team to "own" that role
<ailo> holstein: We used to have a problem with getting the website updated, but since we have control over it ourselves now, that kind of things is not likely to happen anymore
<micahg> team as owner makes sense when each member of the team is empowered to manage whatever is being owned
<micahg> I don't believe that's the case here
<stochastic> yes, true I'll make the changes you suggest.  thanks.
<holstein> ailo: go for it! i just dont want to deal with making or replacing or removing an old slide
<ailo> holstein: It's a matter of clicking a button to disable it, so it really isn't a big issue. I'll make one, and let you see the results later
<stochastic> micahg, just one minor quibble with your logic now: scott is not a member of the testers team and yet we're arbitrarily setting him as the owner?
<micahg> stochastic: owner isn't a member anymore in launchpad :)
<micahg> stochastic: unless the team was created outside the scope of the project, I would think scott would have final say
 * micahg doesn't know the background of the team
<stochastic> okay book keeping is done, scott is owner, howard is an admin
<stochastic> yes the team was created primarily to get more people involved in testing without forcing them to join the dev team (which can be a daunting and distracting team)
<stochastic> essentially a taskforce from the dev team with outside involvement
<micahg> outside the dev team, but in the scope of the project, right?
<holstein> i can do https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntustudio-r-public-relations as well... i just cant really look at it til december
<ailo> holstein: Ah. Well, I'm sure the whole thing will grow a bit during the cycle. But, I was hoping you might be interested in creating and looking for news a bit
<ailo> holstein: And keeping up with users through certain social channels, or whatever
<holstein> ailo: i am!
<ailo> Just seemed like something that might suit you somehow
<holstein> i have 2 little trips in november after the theater show im doing
<holstein> then i 'll be much more free
<holstein> especially in january.. things slow down for me
<stochastic> micahg, yep
<stochastic> micahg, also I just noticed that astraljava is the owner of Ubuntu Studio, by your sound logic this should be thought about being passed over to scott-work?
<ailo> stochastic: micahg: I think what we have in mind now is letting Howard take the lead on getting regular users to help with testing. Howard being the contact person to the dev team
<micahg> yes :)
<stochastic> what comment was that a yes to?
<stochastic> mine or ailo's?
<micahg> stochastic: yours
<micahg> well, I guess both
<stochastic> ok
<stochastic> ailo, yes I agree with that assesment
<stochastic> as an administrator of the group howard should have all the power he requires to take care of that group
<ailo> Ok, good. Then we got that one nailed down :)
<stochastic> I've sent an e-mail to scott and janne about switching the Ubuntu Studio team owner position
<ailo> holstein: I ended up just adding one line to the first slide http://ubuntustudio.org/
<ailo> We should probably have a more user friendly release news posting with each release, I think
<ailo> One with more pictures than words, if you know what I mean
<holstein> i liked smartboys forum post
<ailo> holstein: Did it have pics?
<ailo> holstein: Looking at it
<ailo> holstein: well, it's mostly a copy of the release notes. He just added his own begin and end
<ailo> I don't mean we scrap release notes. Just that we have one less technical post, with much less content
<ailo> I'll see about making one tomorrow..
<astraljava> stochastic: Where am I the owner of?
<astraljava> Are you guys seriously going to be adding support for wubi this cycle?
<astraljava> stochastic: Also, I don't think I've received that email. Where did you send it to?
<astraljava> Nevermind, just found it.
<astraljava> scott-work: You seem to have two accounts on LP, which one should I use?
<ailo> astraljava: wubi is a suggestion yes. What would talk against it?
<astraljava> I can't understand why you would want to use the hardware resources through a layer of Windows.
<astraljava> Surely that won't do good for latency?
<astraljava> Hmmm... ok, I may have been getting some of that wrong.
<astraljava> But it is still residing in a file on NTFS partition, so I have my doubts.
<astraljava> All the technicalities on the 'net seem to be rather outdated. Oh well, maybe it has matured past the issues and limitations.
<knome> it's not long ago xubuntu dropped wubi support because it only brought problems.
<knome> astraljava, how did the choir practice go?
<ailo> Well, we have it under consideration, so someone should find out the good sides and the bad sides, and based on that, see if and how to support it
<len-dt> whats wubi?
<knome> len-dt, software that install ubuntu inside windows
<len-dt> :P  no windows here to test that on. OK
<knome> don't tell me this hdmi cable is dead
<knome> :(
<knome> looks like it is
<knome> dang
<ailo> I actually installed Ubuntu using wubi on my moms computer
<ailo> She isn't bitten by the *nix yet
<ailo> Likes her IE
<knome> the biggets problem with wubi is, imo, that once you want to go to a linux-only pc, you can't do that unless you reinstall
<ailo> I see it as way to try Linux out
<ailo> It's pretty easy to get rid of, for someone not that techincal
<ailo> + no need to do any partitioning, etc
<knome> that's true, it's easy to install, but in the end, it's not easy to get completely away from windows
<knome> and that increases the possibility users will stick with windows
<knome> "if you want to use linux only, you will still need windows since you installed with wubi" doesn't sound too good to my ears
<knome> that isn't a very good product
<Len-nb> It may be a "everyone else is using this why don't we have it too?" thing.
<ailo> I don't see any political issues with it. It's a techincal possibility. If it works ok, I think it's worth supporting, if it's not too much of a hazzle
<ailo> I'd leave it up to the user to decide in which way to install
<Len-nb> Are their people with windows for testing this?
<knome> "i want more space for my linux files, how do i delete windows?"
<knome> "you can't, since you installed with wubi"
<ailo> I have access at least, to a couple of machines
<knome> there's a less political side of it
<ailo> knome: It's still up to the user. And it's up to us to explain what happens if you do this or that
<knome> ailo, sure, but the thing is, users usually won't ask.
<knome> ailo, those are just a few reasons why i dislike wubi
<knome> afaik, there has been some wubi-specific bugs too
<ailo> I wouldn't recommend it to anyone to install with wubi. But, again, if someone wants it, and it's possible to implement, I don't see any problem with that.
<knome> yeah, aiui, it's just one checkbox to enable it
<knome> ailo, you want to contact evan dandrea (ev) about it
<ailo> knome: Ok, thanks
<knome> np
<scott-work> doh, just got out of an afternoon of fixing problems and meetings
<scott-work> i'll read the backscroll at home
<scott-work> astraljava: i didn't know that i had two accounts, i was only aware of a single account
<scott-work> i am going home now though
<stochastic> astraljava, it's this particular group I was talking about https://launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio
<holstein> ailo: i was just pointing that out for the text
<holstein> i agree about more pics than text
<ailo> holstein: It's the same text here. We need it of course, but I'll see about adding a news post with less content tomorrow. It might be a nice thing to have for every release
<ailo> holstein: https://ubuntustudio.org/2012/10/ubuntu-studio-12-10-quantal-quentzal-release-notes/
<ailo> bb tomorrow
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-10-26
<nikel123> hi
<nikel123> can anyone tell me default user/password for ubuntu-studio 12.10 live-dvd?
<astraljava> Did somebody pull a practical joke, or did that dude just not know what he was on about?
<scott-work> ailo-w: i also wanted to give some thought to making some decisions and documentating them about the positions within the team during this cycle
<scott-work> i don't think it's necessary that is has to be done during this cycle or even in the blueprints though
<knome> will somebody register sessions for US for UDS? 
<scott-work> knome: i'm not sure we are. i don't think there are any plans to do so
<scott-work> i can't think of any where we really need pervasive outside involvement (although i'm probably wrong and missing something very blatant)
<knome> there's at least ailo and micahg around
<scott-work> yay!
<knome> well, it would fill my schedule at least a bit more
<scott-work> hehe
<knome> i would definitely participate
<scott-work> i'm excited for ailo to be going. i think it is his first UDS and i'm glad we will have someone there
<scott-work> i believe he is also going to have direct talks with someone from UKT to finish up the kernel maintenance transition
<scott-work> (which probably wouldn't move as expediently otherwise)
<knome> yeah, good to see some people from US face-to-face too
<knome> astraljava of course doesn't count as he's not "people"
<scott-work> ailo-w: would you be opposed to me making a TEAM blueprint to list the positions we think we need, their responsibilities, terms for project lead, how to establish a new one, and the mission statement?
<knome> that sounds like strategy document planning
<scott-work> aye, i would agree
<scott-work> my personal plan has been to stay as lead until the next LTS, but i think it would serve the project better if we decided something formally, even if it isn't until the next LTS ;)
<knome> :)
<scott-work> and while i admit that being ubuntu studio project lead has become part of my identify (even outside of ubuntu), i think it would be better for the project if someone else lead for a while, much like cory stated and did when i started
<knome> maybe
<knome> especially if you can't commit enough time
<scott-work> true. very, very true
<astraljava> knome: True.
<scott-work> i upgraded one of my video/minecraft machines to 12.10 the other day, now i'm doing my laptop today at work :)
<knome> err, "minecraft machine" :P
<astraljava> What, out of that sentence above, "minecraft machine" worries you more? *blink* *blink*
<astraljava> scott-work: How about that LP account?
<ailo-w> knome: sessions?
<ailo-w> scott-work: A team blueprint might be a good idea, yes
<ailo-w> I have been thinking in those terms as well
<ailo-w> bb later, going home now
<scott-work> astraljava: i searched within launchpad and only found the single account for me, i'll link it
<scott-work> astraljava: https://launchpad.net/~slavender
<scott-work> can you show me the other one? i'm rather curious now
<scott-work> knome: well, i have three kids and i resorted to having a couple of machines setup for minecraft to keep them off of my computers so i can actually use them
<smartboyhw> hi scott-work ailo
<smartboyhw> Now what is that TEAM blueprint about?
<scott-work> hi smartboyhw 
<scott-work> "list the positions we think we need, their responsibilities, terms for project lead, how to establish a new one, and the mission statement"
<smartboyhw> scott-work, so really am I not understanding it wrong, that you wanna step down as project lead? (In today's IRC logs
<scott-work> smartboyhw: not particularly
<smartboyhw> scott-work, explain the logs please then: would be better for the project if someone else lead for a while, much like cory stated and did when i started"
<scott-work> hmmm, clearly i have projected incorrectly how people view either me or the project lead position
 * smartboyhw just doesn't understand it
<scott-work> in the long view, there exists a point where any project lead will (or should) step down and let someone else lead, IMO
<scott-work> i simply want to plan for this eventuality
<scott-work> my personal feelings is that any particular lead should not lead the entire project for too long of a period, say from LTS to LTS
<smartboyhw> OK is the blueprint made?
<smartboyhw> scott-work, ah
<smartboyhw> scott-work, actually did you copy that idea from Xubuntu?
<scott-work> but i would like this to be discussed as a group, ratified, and documented somewhere
<scott-work> smartboyhw: not hostistically, although LTS->LTS did come from them
<smartboyhw> Oh did it
<scott-work> part of this is from my desire to make sure that the project is in a better position after my term, and i think ensuring that clear leadership can be maintained is important
<scott-work> as well as making sure have certain internal processes and internal documentation in place
<smartboyhw> :D
<smartboyhw> OK
<scott-work> we have a lot of blueprints, maybe too many. i wonder if we are going to have commitments to get all of it done
<scott-work> perhaps next cycle we draft the list together, get commitments, select which we will focus on based on commitments, and then make blueprints
<scott-work> just thinking outloud
<smartboyhw> scott-work, too many blueprints really...I got my eye dead on seeing the dependency tree
<smartboyhw> ailo, ^
<astraljava> scott-work: When I go to change the owner, and type 'Scott Lavender', it complained there's no such account, and suggested either 'slavender', or 'slavender3'.
<smartboyhw> Oh
<smartboyhw> slavender I think
<smartboyhw> Yes scott-work = slavender:P
<holstein> we could have a meeting soon and knock a few of those out
<astraljava> smartboyhw: Yeah I got that part. I just wanted to double-check with him.
<smartboyhw> holstein, we have that idea. Question: When?
<holstein> we cant include lmms because of some licensing thing... we have sane jack settings.. thre wre a few more that i thought we had settled before
<smartboyhw> holstein, oh?
<holstein> smartboyhw: the sundays were working
<smartboyhw> holstein, I mean what time....
<holstein> smartboyhw: i think it was 1700 utc? i forget
<smartboyhw> holstein, then i can't come
<holstein> me either
<holstein> you could just call one though
<astraljava> I don't think that time was working very well.
<smartboyhw> holstein, I will not call for one then, let scott-work and ailo do it
<smartboyhw> Best time: 14:30 UTC or so?
<astraljava> People with families tend to spend it with them instead of us. Can't really understand why, but... *shrug*
<smartboyhw> *shrug*
<holstein> well, its either family or work time
<astraljava> smartboyhw: That's rather early in the morning for US west coast people, ie. Len.
<holstein> we'll just have to try a few and see who can come
<astraljava> holstein: Work? On a Sunday?
<holstein> astraljava: i work routinely on sunday
<holstein> astraljava: i have 2 jobs this sunday
<astraljava> Yes, but you're not really working. :D
<holstein> lol
<smartboyhw> astraljava, let us settle on a best time: I can come only on like 12:00 to 15:00 UTC 
<holstein> i think someone like scott-work should pick the time.. something a "normal" person could attend
<holstein> but, im talking about something informal
<holstein> just to knock out a few of those action items we've already done
<smartboyhw> informal?
<astraljava> smartboyhw: I'll be there if I can, but I will not take part in the poll.
<smartboyhw> astraljava, oh ok
<holstein> yup.. like ping.. lets knock out a few action items!
<smartboyhw> holstein, oh ok
<astraljava> scott-work: Changed.
<holstein> the formal meeting time hasnt been working though
<smartboyhw> Doesn't work for me, per se (17:00 UTC would be like 1:00 AM HKT here)
<holstein> smartboyhw: iirc, i picked the last time.. you could try choosing a time.. see if it works
<smartboyhw> holstein, 14:00 or 14:30 UTC
<smartboyhw> for me  at least
<smartboyhw> scott-work, you decide:P
<astraljava> Set up a poll on one of those services.
<smartboyhw> astraljava, ok
<holstein> yeah... you'll get a nice cross section of feedback too, like "none of these times work!"
<astraljava> I think we used one for some Xubuntu meetings last cycle. Check with knome.
<holstein> but.. give it a shot!
<astraljava> holstein: Oh, there's someone else like that besides me? :D
<smartboyhw> lol
<astraljava> holstein: The service gave you the whole of the week, so if none of the slots there work for you, I suppose it's time for a reality check. :)
<holstein> well, i personally wont have a regular time that will work.. but some folks will
<astraljava> Yeah I didn't really mean it personally 'you', just as a passive.
<astraljava> Shoulda used 'one.
<astraljava> 'one'*
<holstein> yeah... some folks have a more plan-able regular schedule
<holstein> informal team meetings as needed could work though
<astraljava> Sure, those have had a higher success rate lately.
<holstein> gotta run bbl...
<smartboyhw> astraljava, holstein len-dt ailo scott-work holstein 
<smartboyhw> http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=508aa865e4b061e6546aaf2b
<smartboyhw> Did I miss anybody?:P
<astraljava> Dunno if stochastic is interested. micahg probably don't care as much, but I'll ping him anyway. *smirk* knome, maybe?
 * micahg isn't technically part of the project...
<astraljava> doesn't*
<astraljava> micahg: Hence the 'probably'. :)
<smartboyhw> micahg, you are, especially "technically":P
<knome> we used doodle.com
<knome> so, there's not going to be a US UDS session?
<astraljava> You're in a (sub-)team, why won't you set one up?
<knome> because my subteam doesn't have items for discussion
<knome> but actually, if somebody said you wanted a session, i would've registered that for you.
<knome> does have nothing to do who actually has access to stuff or is in teams
<astraljava> Yes that's' true.
<scott-work> astraljava: i dont' know anything about the '3' person
<scott-work> i would venture to say that the poll should have included days of the week as well, my weekends are quite a bit more free than work days
<knome> try doodle.
<knome> you can even enter your name there.
<ailo-away> Been away a while. Will check backscroll when I get home later
<len-dt> Sunday is ok. 1700 is too late for me 1600 is tight but ok, 1500 is about right.... in two weeks everything will shift (from -0700 to -0800) so then 1600 will be better.
<ailo> All of those times were ok for me
<ailo> I can't seem to be able to pick one
<knome> ailo, get on with it! :)
<ailo> knome: Nope. I can't make up my mind. I'll let someone decide who is married with children
<stochastic> astraljava, what day is that poll for?
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-10-27
<astraljava> stochastic: Synday, it's been our usual meeting day.
<astraljava> Sunday* ;)
<astraljava> Not Sinday. That's everyday.
<ailo> knome: pad.ubuntu.com? Only Ubuntu devs?
<Hypnotoad> ailo: Nope, just need to sign in with launchpad and be in the ubuntu-etherpad "team", comes with being part of a loco and many others.
<ailo> Hypnotoad: I see
<ailo> Thanks
<ailo> Great :)
<knome> ailo, hehe. :)
<knome> ailo, so, what about that studio session in UDS?
<ailo> knome: I can't think of anything to have one about right now. You have any suggestions?
<knome> ailo, we don't have specifically targeted sessions either, just "xubuntu R planning"
<ailo> knome: I think it's probably enough if I join other sessions, and see how I can contribute to US that way. Only me there from my team, after all. And, since we don't seem to have any specific agenda right now..
<knome> well, there's micahg and me who are partly connected
<ailo> knome: True
<knome> and also, if you schedule a session, you will *definitely* have a room for you
<knome> you might have rooms anyway, but...
<ailo> knome: I need pad.ubuntu.com access, right?
<knome> ailo, yeah probably
<ailo> I need to be approved to a team that has access first
<knome> ailo, hmm. you are not a ubuntu member?
<knome> ailo, oh, you seem to be a member of ubuntu-etherpad
<knome> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-etherpad
<ailo> knome: Ah, great. I was just accepted :)
<knome> that's not exactly an exclusive group ;]
<ailo> Only took 5 min
<knome> yeah
<knome> but you only need pad on UDS anyway, not really before
<knome> unless you want to prepare content
<ailo> knome: I'll be going through the schedule today (been a bit busy before). Need to see what's happening, and so forth. I could add a session for us later during the week
<ailo> I'm sure we can cook something up
<knome> ailo, the thing is, those sessions are automatically ordered
<ailo> Oh, :(
<knome> ailo, so it would be best to add it as soon as possible :)
<ailo> knome: Right. 
<knome> ailo, i think you can fix a meeting as far as "i want this to be on thursday"
<knome> (we did that with xubuntu, one session for mon and one for thu)
<ailo> knome: Alright. I need to see how things work. With automatic placement one should be able to do: not at the same time as *-session
<knome> ailo, should, but i'm not sure if that's possible with the tools they have
<knome> ailo, maybe if you're marked as "i REALLY need to attend" for both, it might organize it well for you
<knome> ailo, i think i have one or two overlapping stuff that i'm telling i'm attending
<ailo> But for some reason, I can't sign in to summit.ubuntu.com cause my username is already signed in there 
<ailo> With a different account?!
<knome> huhu?
<knome> :)
<knome> maybe ask #canonical-sysadmin 
<ailo> knome: ah, that's a good channel to know about :). I have another launchpad account, which was working now. Don't want to cause confusion, but I'll probably want to change my nick anyway
<knome> :)
<knome> lunchtime!
<knome> brb
<ailo> knome: Not going to the yoga lessons? (06.30-08.00) 
<holstein> ailo: i didnt mean to imply 64bit was experimental
<holstein> ailo: i just find that some things used to be glitchy there.. and are less and less an issue
<ailo> holstein: When? Back in 2008?
<holstein> ailo: plus i have actual software (light scribe) for example that is 32 bit only
<holstein> ailo: 10.04
<smartboyhw> Now wait I use 64-bit here
<holstein> 10.04 was when i had some "issues" with 64bit
<holstein> ailo: i dont have them anymore
<ailo> holstein: There may be a few odd applications that aren't supported by Ubuntu/Debian, that may not work on 64bits, or you have to do some work to get them working
<ailo> I'd say that's about it
<smartboyhw> :)
<holstein> ailo: feel free and sell geatano on whichever you choose
<smartboyhw> LOL
<holstein> i was trying to suggest trying 32bit if the 64bit version was failing
<holstein> though, i dont think that is the issue for gaetano
<holstein> i usually just try teh 32.. unless i feel the 64 is approriate
<holstein> and im finding that the 64 is just fine...
<ailo> holstein: gaetano is having nvidia driver issues. His card is new, and the drivers a bit old
<holstein> ailo: agreed
<ailo> Nothing to do with the arch
<holstein> ailo: i agree with that as well.. i just thought it might be nice to try both
<holstein> if he had tried the 64
<holstein> though,, i didnt strongly suggest either to him.. though you are free to do so
<ailo> I wouldn't count on him knowing which he has now. His brother installed it for him last week or so
<holstein> yup
<ailo> Anyway, I'd say 64bit is more or less an acceptable default by now. 
<holstein> hopefully you can talk him through the jockey, and it'll "just work"
<ailo> No jockey on 12.10
<ailo> But, he knows where the drivers are
<holstein> ailo: the jockey type thing
<holstein> the jockey replacement
<holstein> ailo: i dont feel like the 64bit is necessary by default on a netbook
<holstein> but, thats just my opinion.. and i know where to get the 32
<len-dt> If the netbook has an atom it is 32 bit anyway I think.
 * len-dt hasn't looked at the latest netbooks
<holstein> len-dt: i was surpised to read that mine was 64bit capable
<len-dt> holstein, I thought I had tried the 64 and it failed.
<holstein> i can imagine a lot of users who already dont quite understand how to install an operating system loading up a 64bit iso on a 32bit box... ive already seen a few
<len-dt> but I am not sure.
<ailo> The old generation atoms were not 64bit. I'm sure a lot of the newer ones are. At least AMD
<len-dt> I only have 1g ram though
<len-dt> ailo, I don't think AMD does atom
<holstein> i think since the 32 *is* a safe default, pushing the 64 might be a bit early still... but again, i know where to get the 32
<ailo> len-dt: AMD has their own version of that
<smartboyhw> Hi len-dt 
<ailo> low power processors
<len-dt> They do have a low power cpu but I don't know what it is called
 * smartboyhw thinks 64 is the best 
 * len-dt doesn't have endless money to keep buying new stuff to try.
<len-dt> :)
<smartboyhw> len-dt, we all know:P
<smartboyhw> and we all don't have endless money:P
<len-dt> However, quite honestly, my old P4 has been enough for all my uses so far.
<len-dt> That said, I have not yet used any softsynths in my recordings
 * len-dt is not a KB player
<holstein> jta: \o/
<jta> ailo: ok, so yes, I do audio and video
<holstein> jta: like ailo was saying.. we need some video workflow folks
<jta> heya 
<jta> yup...well I want to do the integration with jack...let me put this channel on my auto list
<ailo> jta: Yeah, it would be great to get some ideas down.
<jta> ok, I will automatically join here now
<ailo> jta: If there's something that could be done to improve blender on Ubuntu Studio, we should definately look into that
<jta> cool..well i have a linux development computer that has plenty of room to make distros also...
<jta> ailo for sure, i'm a graphics professional and a minor dev for blender...i'm established in the dev community....
<jta> ailo: i do live events, graphics, video and sound.  mostly for corporate general sessions
<jta> ok, hey, i need to jump in the shower
<ailo> jta: Pretty much anything else but audio development has very low activity right now, something we'd like to change
<jta> but hit me up on occasion ailo, i will auto login to this channel every time i am in chat
<ailo> jta: So, what's the deal with jack + blender?
<holstein> jta:  we are glad to have you! ... see you soon
<jta> ok, well i have talked about it with holstein for a while, but I am moving forward on projects that require it to be done..
<jta> i am working out of hollywood a lot lately and need a one stop distro to give people...and I will be teaching classes on it....
<jta> see you holstein 
<jta> ailo...you can use them to sync the timeline with blender and like audacity or others...so when you scrub in blender it shows up in the audio program and visa versa
<jta> so it makes audio programs like a plug in for blenders audio sub system...and I have become a developer for the video editing system...so the time is right
<jta> the audio sub system is part of the VSE video sequence editor...
<jta> I gotta fly guys...
<jta> i'll keep the window open for a half an hour more if you got some questions...I'll be back before I leave...
<jta> ty holstein your hospitality is one of the things that keeps me coming back
<jta> bbiab
<holstein> jta: :)
<ailo> jta: I won't have much time this week myself, probably. Will be at the UDS, but was just quickly googling, and I need to check some things out first anyway
<ailo> Seems like you can compile blender with jack support. 
<ailo> I'll add a workitem about checking that
<len-dt> ailo, Hmm, starting blender just logged me out
<ailo> len-dt: Not for me. Maybe a driver issue?
<len-dt> could be. Screen went blank then console then login screen
<ailo> opengl, I would think
<len-dt> Like x quit
<len-dt> As I recall it worked ok in 12.04 (this is 12.10)
<len-dt> listening to a demo of Linux Sampler, very impressive.
<len-dt> I will do a reboot and try again. There have been a few SW updates since last boot
<jta> ailo: what we can do this the official blender build, then I can help with specialty builds from graphic all that will be audio/media based...
<jta> i can share my scripts that automatically down load or even some of my documentation that makes things easier
<jta> also the new compositor and changes to the VSE make blender a much better video editor
<jta> so lots of good things have taken place
<jta> so the special builds maybe one extra on the LiveCD and then scripts for those who install on HDD to stay active in the blender community by trying bleeding edge builds
<jta> I am also a minor dev in the game engine group...I am working on blender for motion graphics...so that's great for live event/VJay types
<len-dt> ailo, same problem after reboot. shows up as an xorg crash.
<ailo> jta: We need to do changes to the source as much as possible through the Debian Multimedia Team. We more or less just import their packages to Ubuntu. 
<ailo> len-dt: I'd google it. Maybe your HW
<ailo> jta: I'm planning on joining that team, but even before that, we should contact them with patches, or ideas first
<len-dt> Probably. I chose my Graphics card based on cost. 
<ailo> jta: Principally, I guess we're interested in how the software can be used, and if the Debian build allows all the use cases. If not, we try to make it happen
<ailo> jta: Also, we need to write some docs about the different workflows
<ailo> audio, graphics, video, photography and publishing
<len-dt> My thought has been that I don't need fancy graphics. I would think that someone interested in video anything would be much more careful about video hw than I. Also remember that this HW is at least 8 years old.... obsolete
<ailo> len-dt: 8 years is a loooong time for a graphic card
<ailo> :)
<ailo> Mine don't usually survive that long
<len-dt> I have a few s3 around too :)
<smartboyhw> Wow wow wow
<jta> ailo docs about the workflow is exactly what I will help with...that's the the need I have for the distro.  I can give it to someone and they are up and running quickly with the workflow
<jta> I work out of Los Angeles and most people there don't have time to play...they are very work and results oriented...
<jta> blender runs good on older hardware len-dt 
<jta> len-dt: if you have old hardware, blender works great like if you need to make a logo or some simple motion graphics, or a flyer for a concert
<len-dt> jta, as I said it ran fine in 12.04. I am not sure what happened here. but then I am running on an external drive right now too.
<ailo> jta: Maybe we can cooperate on that then? We are just making up the plans for next release. Here's an overview of the blueprints
<jta> that's the idea of blender in ustudio...also for people doing some media production
<jta> for sure ailo, i am up for cooperation...
<ailo> jta: The ones relevant to you would at least be user docs, and the video workflow
<ailo> jta: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/RaringBlueprintsCategories
<jta> ok, hey, i gotta run, I have a pretty lady that will be waiting on me if I don't keep moving, lol...
<jta> okies got it
<ailo> jta: What's your launchpad account name? jta?
<jta> should be, i'll have to check
<jta> sometimes that's taken and I do a variation...
<jta> i gotta fly, i'll be back, ttyl
<jta> thanks!
<ailo> Would be super great if he could help us out on some of the items
<ailo> len-dt: Oh, did you install nvidia drivers (wasn't that the card)?
<ailo> len-dt: Maybe a regression?
<len-dt> I think there must be a problem with the graphics... I'm using the free driver and it does do some things better...
<ailo> len-dt: Must be the driver
<len-dt> Just a thought... have we added a work item to update any mention of 12.10 to 13.04?
 * len-dt can only think of one right now
<ailo> len-dt: update?
<ailo> len-dt: I still haven't added old postponed blueprints
<len-dt> ya the plymouth text version will need to be changed to 13.04 for sure.
<len-dt> I don't think it was in the old blueprints but probably should have been
<ailo> len-dt: Sounds like one of those things that should be added to a blueprint template
<ailo> len-dt: Adding it
<len-dt> We could just change the text to Ubuntu Studio with no version.
<len-dt> I don't think the graphic plynouth has a version
<ailo> len-dt: Ok. I'll put that down as an item as well
<len-dt> speaking of plymouth, the graphics version is one of the things that actually works this cycle... from the live ISO... but not from the installed version. Must be something in the initrd the installed version misses
<len-dt> On this hw... works fine on anything else.
<len-dt> ailo, (and anyone else) just added some thoughts about upgrades to the list.
<holstein> !tty
<ubottu> To get to the TTY terminals 1-6, use the keystroke ctrl + alt + F1-F6 respectively (Alt+F7 will get you back to your graphical login).  To change the resolution for your TTY, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ChangeTTYResolution
<len-dt> holstein, ok, I think I was aware of that? Thanks for the tip :)
<holstein> len-dt: i was grabbing that for another channel :) i didnt think anyone would mind the noise
<len-dt> NP... I was just wondering who it was for...
<ailo> So, you'd like to SRU the extras to the menu?
<ailo> len-dt: ^
<len-dt> ailo, actually, I don't think it is import enough....
<len-dt> If 12.10 is installed as recommended it won't help
<len-dt> So long as we have a web page that recommends fresh install... that is good enough
<len-dt> we can always point to it.
<len-dt> I want to add them in R
<ailo> I'm probably going to attend a session during UDS about derivatives having their own release schedules
<ailo> That might be something to discuss, if were to become possible
<len-dt> 12 mo?
<ailo> Anything we like, probably
<ailo> Maybe even not periodic
<ailo> Just when we want to
<ailo> But that might be dangerous :)
<len-dt> ailo, the nice thing about fixed is that it would match ubuntu once in a while.
<len-dt> it would be nice to LTS match. Less docs needed
<ailo> It's always going to match something pretty well. But, I wonder how well a Studio installation would be when done from a Ubuntu between US releases
<ailo> And we don't do any Ubuntu specific docs anyway
<len-dt> there is that.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-10-28
<ailo> Bah, the first slide on the homepage is not right on all resolutions
<len-dt> ailo, just looking at it again seeing as you mentioned it... the home page slide for audio looks like it is saying US is made for amature work not professional.
<len-dt> "Need to record your band? Or do you want to record, mix, and master your own song?"
<len-dt> Getting paid to record other people's songs/bands is professional.
<len-dt> Publishing at least mentions a "press" photography on the other hand is only good enough for "publish them to social web sites".
<len-dt> I hadn't looked at things with such a picky eye before :)
<ailo> len-dt: The whole site could go through a check. There were some spelling errors until quite late. 
<ailo> I did as little as possible to already existing text thinking that people might have opinions before release
<ailo> Also, it's hard to have an objective picture while you're in the process of editing
<len-dt> ailo, the graphics looked so nice... and it was soooo much better than what we had.
<len-dt> I don't think many of us were that objective
 * len-dt knows he wasn't
<len-dt> What the video slide says is nice, basically says it can do anything.
<ailo> The last line of text in the first slide is on top of the slide buttons on one of my screens
<len-dt> Graphics could use a bit of thought though.
<len-dt> ailo, ya I see that
<len-dt> From adding the new release line
<ailo> Yeah, wasn't like that on the screen I did it on
<ailo> Will have a look tomorrow, on the bus
<ailo> Leaving to MalmÃ¶ tomorrow, where my uncle lives. It's just opposite of Copenhagen, where UDS is
<len-dt> Ubuntu Studio is not really an operating system, but a distribution
<ailo> Isn't it both?
<len-dt> That will give some time... if it was me... my battery wouldn't last that long
<ailo> The bus has internet, but perhaps not power outletsd
<len-dt> bassed on Linux the OS I think.
<ailo> I'm bringing a netbook too
<len-dt> The problem being that many people get the idea of an OS but from windows land not a distro.
<len-dt> Those from linux land know the difference I think.
<ailo> The sum, kernel + system tools is an operative system. We have our own kernel, and some minor changes to Ubuntu specs. I'd say it's a Ubuntu Studio operative system
<len-dt> If it doesn't hit others as it does me then I am probably wrong.
<ailo> It's not as common to call it OS, when it's Linux I guess
<ailo> I didn't write that anyhow
<ailo> I'm going to bed. Early rise tomorrow, even if we get one hour extra this night
<ailo> see you tomorrow
<len-dt> I'm not pointing fingers (at people) just anything that might be taken to mean something it doesn't.
<len-dt> Very good. Good night.
<ailo> Nightmare trying to use a laptop on a bus
<ailo> Just on my way to my uncle's, who lives just on the opposite side of Copenhagen across a few km of sea
<knome> :)
<contrapunctus> ailo, that's why they made tablets, I betcha ;)
<contrapunctus> Incidentally, is there any Linux distro that can run on ARM? Had heard of Debian and Bodhi, but sounds like a tricky procedure to install. =\
<ailo> contrapunctus: I could probably use one now, but now the uds site has problems, so I might as well catch some sleep, or eat some donuts
<ailo> contrapunctus: I've never tried installing
<ailo> Debian, correcrt
<ailo> Isn't Ubuntu going into that too?
<ailo> contrapunctus: http://www.ubuntu.com/download/arm
<ailo> Not exactly well supported
<ailo> I bought a router that you can install linux on. That's arm
<contrapunctus> Awesome, ailo. I didn't realize the install instructions were out as well! W00t...but that's only for certain tablets -_-'
<contrapunctus> I was thinking more like 'U-install-on-any-Android-device-buntu' :)
<ailo> contrapunctus: Think you might need to tinker with a Debian install for other devices. I know a lot of people are doing it. Maybe there are some examples on youtube and such?
<contrapunctus> Aye, ailo. There do seem to be some of those floating around on YouTube.
<astraljava> contrapunctus: emdebian has worked towards that goal for quite some while.
<astraljava> Not sure what's the current status, though.
 * astraljava kinda lost interest in embedded half a year ago.
<contrapunctus> Why?
<contrapunctus> o.o
<contrapunctus> (and how does one do those verb thingies in IRC, again?)
<ailo> During my stay in Copenhagen I will travel half the distance as I am doing one way now, for a price of X8 (unless I walk a lot, in which case it's about X4)
<ailo> I did bring running shoes :P
<astraljava> ailo: That's messed up. How so?
<smartboyhw> !?
<smartboyhw> Good everyone is back
<smartboyhw> astraljava, what is messed up?
<astraljava> That is costs so much more when traveling.
<smartboyhw> ah
<ailo> astraljava: local traffic is a bitch
<ailo> But it's cheaper than staying at a hotel next to bella center :)
<smartboyhw> ailo, wait you want to remove the text in the plymouth theme right? Why?
<ailo> smartboyhw: Len suggested that. Would remove one maintenance detail.
<smartboyhw> ailo, well that is a super-east maintenance. If you guys don't wanna do it I can do it myself.
<smartboyhw> *super-easy
<smartboyhw> OK changed it and proposed code merge ailo 
<smartboyhw> hi micahg 
<micahg> hi smartboyhw
<len-dt> smartboyhw, I want to change the text from ubuntu studio 12.10 to just ubuntu studio
<smartboyhw> len-dt, wait a minute
<smartboyhw> Ubuntu also has a non-versioned theme for graphical ones
<smartboyhw> But they say "Ubuntu 12.10" when it comes to the text theme
<smartboyhw> len-dt, I don't think it is good to remove it. How could people tell which release are they installing?
<micahg> smartboyhw: why should the text theme be different than the graphical one?
<smartboyhw> micahg, what?
<micahg> if the graphical one is unversioned, why should the text one be versioneD?
<smartboyhw> micahg, don't ask me, ask the ubuntu artwork team:P
<len-dt> smartboyhw, we are talking ubuntu studio. our graphic one has no version and very very few people see the text one.
<smartboyhw> len-dt, wait is it a very difficult one to maintain?
<len-dt> just very easy to forget.
<len-dt> I was the only one who saw it because of my old video card
<smartboyhw> len-dt, I saw it always when I do testing on Virtualbox
<len-dt> as of 12.10 the video driver seems to work so I may not see it.
<len-dt> It is easy to change. I was the one who made the ubuntustudio one.
<smartboyhw> so?
<len-dt> I won't always be around to remember to change it why leave something that must be changed every release?
<len-dt> or to put it another way, if it is soooo important then why not change the grphic version every time too?
<micahg> len-dt: which package is that in?
<smartboyhw> micahg, ubuntustudio-look
<smartboyhw> I proposed code merge for 13.04 (for now)
<micahg> len-dt: we could just make it a dynamic file where the version is added automatically when it's built
<smartboyhw> micahg, good:D
<len-dt> Ok, would we do that for the graphic version too?
<smartboyhw> len-dt, no
<len-dt> then why for the text version?
<smartboyhw> len-dt, really srsly: If Vanilla Ubuntu can include it why can we not?
<len-dt> micahg, I can not see any reason to make the text version "versioned" and not the graphic version.
<len-dt> I think the place to add the version to would be lightdm
<len-dt> It could be added once and would be there for everyone
<len-dt> smartboyhw, if vanilla has it in the text version and not the graphic one then that is also wrong
<len-dt> I would call that a bug
<smartboyhw> len-dt, ooh...............
<len-dt> Going farther down that path... the time the system stays on plymouth has gotten so short (execpt when scanning disks and from the live ISO) that even on my old machine plymouth runs less than a second.
<micahg> len-dt: I agree with you :)
<len-dt> Some people say they just see a flash of it before lightdm shows up.
<smartboyhw> OK I give up. 
<smartboyhw> len-dt, you win:P
<len-dt> I win? My hope is to give things that are winners for the end user first, and then the US dev team... even better if it helps both.
<smartboyhw> OK then
<smartboyhw> len-dt, code it and then micahg will package it. (Am I wrong?)
<len-dt> Ya, I was waiting till the new ISO started rolling.
<smartboyhw> len-dt, no need I thkin
<len-dt> I want to see the core builds before I start messing with it. I'm just cautious I guess.
<smartboyhw> len-dt, then do you want to see "Ubuntu Studio 12.10" on a 13.04 ISO?:P
<len-dt> There are two or three things (buglets) I need to do that way. I may start on them before the ISOs roll though
<smartboyhw> len-dt, OK. BTW len-dt micahg do you support having Ubuntu Studio on Wubi? Just asking
 * micahg doesn't do Wubi, so no opinion
 * smartboyhw supports it
 * len-dt has no way of testing it
<smartboyhw> Well that is just asking since ailo put it in the blueprints
<len-dt> what exactly does "wubi" do?
<micahg> allows you to install Ubuntu inside a windows installation
<len-dt> I understand the FS resides inside an NT partition?
<smartboyhw> len-dt, yes
 * smartboyhw has tried to use that before
<smartboyhw> That thought was first raised when Bug 1070682 was reported
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1070682 in Wubi "wubi and ubuntu studio" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1070682
<len-dt> US is performance sensitive... at least with the audio stuff
<smartboyhw> len-dt, news btw, mrpouit has uploaded a patch for the duplicate partitions
<len-dt> Aside from the point of it working at all installwise, I am wondering what problems we might have with how things run.
<len-dt> good, if fix released or just commited?
<smartboyhw> len-dt, only proposed patch. Will fix commit and release a few days later
<smartboyhw> Bug 1072137 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1072137 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu Quantal) "Duplicate partitions shown" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1072137
<smartboyhw> here
<smartboyhw> len-dt, btw are you getting dizzy with our topic-r-flavor-ubuntustudio's dependency tree?
<len-dt> It is hard to read, but I think splitting it up is good
<len-dt> I wish the main page just showed the first level not all of them
<smartboyhw> len-dt, me also
<len-dt> I do think splitting things into smaller portions will allow us to finish more things. Last cycle a lot of things were partly done
<smartboyhw> Why did I part the channel?
<len-dt>  I do think splitting things into smaller portions will allow us to finish more things. Last cycle a lot of things were partly done
<len-dt> IDK
<smartboyhw> len-dt, thought of one thing...We can actually add back bookmarks of our help pages and so to Firefox...
<len-dt> How?
<len-dt> I spent rather a lot of time on that last cycle with no results.
<smartboyhw> len-dt, what? You are exactly the opposite I think
<smartboyhw> len-dt, you got most workitems done, I, ailo and scott-work failed at that
<len-dt> Putting bookmarks in firefox is not easy. I could get it done, but not so that the next upgrade of firefox didn't reset it to stock
<len-dt> So it would work so long as the user used FF before any upgrade... which may not happen if there happened to be a FF upgrade detected at install time.
<len-dt> A new user added to an install even a month later would not see our bookmarks for sure.
<smartboyhw> len-dt, look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/Oneiric/LocalizedCDImageTools
<len-dt> smartboyhw, there may be a way of doing that if we moved all of ubuntu-setting into ubuntustudio-default-settings
<smartboyhw> len-dt, that link may be the solution for us (albeit only a little bit)
<smartboyhw> That might be what we want for the new ubuntustudio-default-settings
<len-dt> I will look. There is a package for generating a default-settings package for a ISO that I tried. It does not work.
<micahg> the Firefox bookmarks aren't in the ubuntu-settings package
<smartboyhw> len-dt, micahg actually look at https://wiki.mozilla.org/Distribution_INI_File will be better
<smartboyhw> micahg, where is it?
<len-dt> smartboyhw, that doesn't work
<smartboyhw> len-dt, !
<len-dt> I tried it.
<micahg> either in ubufox or firefox
<len-dt> The ubuntuized version makes that not work.
<smartboyhw> len-dt, oh ok how about the ini file?
<len-dt> I tried it.
<smartboyhw> hmm
<len-dt> I spent a lot of time on it.
<len-dt> In the end that was why I added all the bookmarks to the menu.
<smartboyhw> len-dt, :D
<len-dt> Same with xchat.
<smartboyhw> Hmm sounds like a difficult one to do
<smartboyhw> micahg, aren't you a specialist on browsers?
<micahg> smartboyhw: yes?
<smartboyhw> micahg, you should be able to add the bookmarks then:P
<micahg> well, idk where they're stored at the moment, yes I could figure it out if I had time
<smartboyhw> micahg, oh ok
<len-dt> micahg, smartboyhw is it really worth the time involved?
<smartboyhw> len-dt, dunno. Though it is mentioned before I think
<len-dt> It was in last cycles BP
<len-dt> We postponed it with the idea it did not have to be resurected this cycle :)
<smartboyhw> len-dt, :)
<smartboyhw> Albeit we can try to
<len-dt> You can assign yourself to it and do that. Personally, I will spend my time elsewhere.
<len-dt> I will have less time this cycle than last.
<len-dt> I would start by looking in the ubuntu-branding stuff which is called something else these days and think about replacing that with a US version.
<len-dt> try ubufox  maybe
<len-dt> If we make a stufox though that will mean maintaining it every time ubufox gets changed
<len-dt> smartboyhw, ^^
<smartboyhw> len-dt, :D
<micahg> smartboyhw: it's a big maintenance burden
<smartboyhw> micahg, yes I agre
<smartboyhw> *agree
<len-dt> micahg, I have worked in tech support and heard "why did they do it that way?" many times. I found if I started thinking how I would do it, I often ended up the way the machine was... Same apllies here a lot.
<ailo> There's also the answer: just because
<ailo> knome: Are you all settled in Copenhagen and ready for tomorrow?
<ailo> I could probably have prepared a lot more (haven't exactly been asking around a lot). Thinking things will become apparent tomorrow
<ailo> len-dt: I removed a line in the first slide at the homepage. My thought is, if no one will miss it, it was an ok edit.
<ailo> The great thing about writing code independently, when there are no commercial interests, is that you'll most likely only have two reasons why you did something. 
<ailo> Either because you saw a solution to a problem, or just because
<knome> ailo, yeah, i pretty much am
<len-dt> ailo, the first slide looks fine.
<len-dt> I can't even remember what the missing line was :)
<len-dt> Hey, there is a new kernel in proposed for 12.10. Are we supposed to test that before it gets released?
<len-dt> If so, where do we mark it as tested?
<len-dt> ailo, I only ask because it is lowlatency. If we don't test who will?
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-10-21
<zequence> micahg: Thanks. So, when I backport ardour3, lv2 should automatically be included as a dependency
<zequence> I got it built for raring now. It required 4 additional packages to be backported from saucy
<zequence> pbuilder did not work for me. I always seem to have trouble with that (it errored on some jack dependencies that didn't seem to make sense)
<smartboyhw> zequence, when will you do your "release announcement"?
<smartboyhw> Not an exact urge, but since we're now open for development;)
<zequence> smartboyhw: I reconsidered
<zequence> But, I'm working on starting the next cycle of development
<zequence> Just very busy. Lots to do
<smartboyhw> zequence, OK
<zequence> Ok, it seems backporting is not such a great option as I thought
<zequence> bug 888665
<ubottu> bug 888665 in Launchpad itself "Backports can't build-depend on other backports" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/888665
<zequence> bug 1242721
<ubottu> bug 1242721 in raring-backports "Please backport ardour3 3.4~dfsg-3ubuntu1 (universe) from saucy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1242721
<zequence> OvenWerks: bug 1242417
<ubottu> bug 1242417 in ubuntustudio-default-settings (Ubuntu) "UEFI install broken when GRUB_DISTRIBUTOR!=Ubuntu (e.g. Kubuntu/UbuntuStudio)" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1242417
<zequence> OvenWerks: Ubuntu devs are looking into that, cjwatson among others, but I'm being happily ignorant about what the issue is for the time being
<zequence> What's the point in backporting, when you can only backport something that doesn't build-depend on other backports?
<zequence> I'm forgetting that backports exists fro now
<zequence> We should probably start our own backports-ppa for our users
<zequence> Or, discuss it
<ttoine> zequence, I am in discussion with spreadshirt so they would remove the non licenced artwork
<ttoine> bye
<OvenWerks> zequence: we can change grub distributor back to Ubuntu and still keep the low latency stuff. I can also put the word studio in the somewhere too. We should be able to replace one of the grub packages with ubuntustudio-grub if we want it to be the nicest looking.
<OvenWerks> However, kubuntu does not use "ubuntu" and xubuntu is looking at changing too. So it is something that needs looking at. I think the ubuntu version of grub is different enough from debian already that "doing a patch upstream" would be meaningless
<OvenWerks> The reality is the UEFI and the words that make up the menu should have no connection. That kind of connection makes setting a language other than english impossible. Everything else is multi lingual and grub should be to.
<OvenWerks> The grub menu should not be confusing, but right now it is. This is why we had to change it.
<OvenWerks> Personally, I don't think it has been changed enough yet :)
<zequence> OvenWerks: The comment from cjwatson was something about that he had wanted to know about this new habit of changing grub the way it has been changed
<zequence> I'm thinking they are doing something to enable what we want to do in another way
<zequence> OvenWerks: Might be good to follow the progress of that bug, and see where the discussions lead
<zequence> OvenWerks: Ubuntu changes to GRUB have been done upstream too
<zequence> I noticed Debian GRUB is now the same as Ubuntu GRUB in how it displays the menu
<zequence> And I'm sure that Ubuntu devs would like for GRUB to work well for all of us
<OvenWerks> zequence: I will have to look again at the debian source.
<OvenWerks> I will have to look also at the grub2 source.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-10-22
<micahg> zequence: depends how far back you're backporting, I'd suggest getting the dependency relaxed
<micahg> zequence: if you're going from saucy to raring for ardour3, I'd be fine applying a diff to relax the dependency (would've been better to get it fixed in saucy, but that ship's sailed)
<zequence> micahg: My goal was precise, but not sure if that is at all possible
<zequence> I'd rather skip the releases in between and just backport whatever packages that are needed for ardour3 to end up there
<zequence> As I've understood, you can't skip releases like that
<zequence> You have to backport back one release at the time, right?
<smartboyhw_> OvenWerks, zequence: The GRUB change has made Studio impossible to use UEFI, as told by xnox.
<smartboyhw_> I mean, the GRUB boot item.
<smartboyhw_> He requests us to revert such changes.
<cub> zequence, do you want help with creating the table on the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/PackageListSaucy ?
<smartboyhw_> OvenWerks, zequence: It's Bug 1242417. BTW Kubuntu might be releasing a 13.10.1 release based on the bugfix to this. Would you guys want a re-spin also? (If it is technically possible)
<ubottu> bug 1242417 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "UEFI install broken when GRUB_DISTRIBUTOR!=Ubuntu (e.g. Kubuntu/UbuntuStudio)" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1242417
<zequence> cub: Yes please, just follow what I've done.
<zequence> I've done A,B and C so far
<zequence> Might be a good idea to copy the text somewhere else, before saving, in case something goes wrong. Been a while since I had a problem, but I guess there could be one if two people are working on it at the same time
<zequence> smartboyhw: We were discussing that bug yesterday
<smartboyhw> zequence, OK, so what's the resolution?
<zequence> So, we're following the progress of that bug report
<zequence> Someone is working on it
<smartboyhw> zequence, who? xnox?
<zequence> smartboyhw: You seem to mix up UEFI with secure boot
<zequence> UEFI is a replacement for BIOS, which requires a new way of installing - you need a special partition for UEFI
<zequence> secureboot is a feature for UEFI
<smartboyhw> zequence, yes
<smartboyhw> zequence, but do you want to respin the image if the "somebody" got the SRU out?
<zequence> smartboyhw: That would be best, yes
<smartboyhw> zequence, sure
<zequence> cub: We can do the categorization and inclusion part after we'de done making tables of everything
<zequence> Each category should be a link, that points to a section of the category page. I'll fix that later
<zequence> We define categories as we categorize. Afterwards we can adjust by removing or adding new categories, if needed
<cub> I was thinking of the making table part
<cub> it's a lot of rows to plow thorugh
<cub> unless you want to do them all?
<zequence> No, it would be great if you could helÃ¥
<zequence> help*
<cub> oh right, you have already answered that earlier.
<zequence> yep :)
<ttoine> zequence, the unauthorized stuff are removed from spreadshirt
<zequence> ttoine: That was fast :)
<smartboyhw> zequence, it turns out I'm the one who has to fix the stuff-.- (fixing and waiting for review to sponsor)
<zequence> smartboyhw: Fixing, how?
<smartboyhw> zequence, you can see in the trunk lp:ubuntustudio-default-settings
<zequence> smartboyhw: don't do any changes without our concent, please
<smartboyhw> zequence, OK
<zequence> smartboyhw: It's not cool to revert someones changes and not communicating about it
<zequence> you are not the boss here
<zequence> first you talk about it, then you make the change, ok?
<smartboyhw> zequence, I thought you said it should be fixed?
<smartboyhw> ......
<smartboyhw> Sorry
<zequence> Yes, of course. But, there's a matter of HOW
<smartboyhw> zequence, sure
<zequence> smartboyhw: OvenWerks is the one who made the change. He should be involved in discussions
<zequence> smartboyhw: I can't find any change you have made
<smartboyhw> zequence, oh?
<smartboyhw> DId I not push then?
<zequence> smartboyhw: please don't
<zequence> you have your own branch, right?
<smartboyhw> zequence, it's here https://code.launchpad.net/~smartboyhw/ubuntu/trusty/ubuntustudio-default-settings/fix-bug-1242417/+merge/192179
<smartboyhw> (That's for actual upload though by then)
<zequence> smartboyhw: remove the merge request please
<smartboyhw> zequence, done
<smartboyhw> Good night, BTW, it's 11:57 P.M
<zequence> OvenWerks: I'd rather stay out of this, since I have enough on my table, so if you could please have a look at what changes were proposed by Howard, and also see about the bug report
<zequence> OvenWerks: We need to make Ubuntu Studio bootable on UEFI systems, and we should respin the image once a fix is in place
<zequence> OvenWerks: If you'd like to keep the way our GRUB menu works, perhaps there is another way. You could discuss it on the bug, IRC or on a mail list, 
<zequence> OvenWerks: This is Howards branch https://code.launchpad.net/~smartboyhw/ubuntu/trusty/ubuntustudio-default-settings/fix-bug-1242417
<ttoine> zequence, the legal service of spreadshirt is efficient, but very exigent
<zequence> OvenWerks: cjwatson suggested we do the change, so I'm going to go ahead and do it, both on our dev branch as well as make a merge request
<zequence> ..to the saucy release
<zequence> Then I suggest a discussion between different parties, and the maintainer cjwatson about future changes (on his request)
<cub> the ubuntu wiki is driving me nuts with the login problems
<zequence> cub: I was thinking maybe we could script the whole thing
<zequence> I should look into that
<cub> it might be difficult since there's only spaces between them
<cub> we have a similar wiki at work and I always end up doing it manually anyway
<zequence> cub: I think it should be doable
<cub> woaw, we include the DAISY player! :D
<zequence> the first items are easy enough to filter. The last bit is text of random length
<zequence> cub: We don't include all of those
<zequence> they are just all within the "sound" category in Ubuntu packages
<cub> aha
<cub> well, we should include daisy since I made the first daisy book ever. 
<cub> I'm starting to edit some now
<cub> zequence, you remove all the version numbers?
<zequence> cub: Yes, we don't really need them
<zequence> plus, they could change during the release
<cub> exactly
<cub> hmm didn't get far. The dog complains. :P bbl
<zequence> cub: I have a script almost ready that will make our lives easier
<cub> really? how did you make it?
<cub> anyway, heading to bed. I'll take a look at the page tomorrow morning if there is anything left to edit on my daily commute
<OvenWerks> zequence: Sorry it took so long. That change is fine in -settings. I would like to do things differently anyway. Maybe add a Flavour keyword/variable.
<zequence> I've realized Ubuntu branches are not duplicates of Ubuntu Studio ones. The latest commits to our branch are a bit strange
<zequence> Howard made the change to the Ubuntu trusty branch, and asked to merge
<zequence> impossible to merge with our branch
<zequence> so, I had to add the diffs manually
<zequence> I'm seeing some problems in the way we deal with branches
<OvenWerks> zequence: yes, It is something we are still learning
<OvenWerks> Micha was doing all that for us before
<OvenWerks> zequence: If we do much more with the grub stuff, we will probably have to watch the main package so we can keep ours up. (there are a few packages, we only need to do one)
<zequence> OvenWerks: Have you ever had problems with desktop sound on saucy?
<zequence> It seems there's a few complaining about not having pulseaudio working at all for them
<OvenWerks> never
<OvenWerks> I have common audio cards though.
<OvenWerks> Intel HDA and ice1712
<zequence> OvenWerks: I've seen people having problems with HDA
<zequence> I have HDA too, and I've never had problems either
<OvenWerks> Hda is just a bus spec really so I guess it may depend on what codec is dropped on that bus.
<OvenWerks> If you look at the switches for the alsa hda driver... there is a long list depending on the codec and configuration.
<zequence> Well, it
<zequence> it's not really that UBuntu Studio specific. Probably all sorts of users get problems, and are reporting bugs
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-10-23
<micahg> zequence: yes, you have to backport through any releases with an upgrade path
<micahg> before we were having merge requests against the studio branch and then I was asked to sponsor that, I believe that's still the correct work flow
<micahg> OvenWerks: ^^
<cub> zequence, nice work on the script for the table on the wiki.
<zequence> cub: It's a buggy commend, the output is not 100%, but it saves time, and I don't have the patience to develop it further
<zequence> cub: btw, I never got the job. I remember you asked before. They had restructuring just as I was about to begin.
<zequence> A bit of an antiklimax, since we had already decided on salary and everything :P
<cub> sorry to hear about the job. And such bad planning from their part ...
<astraljava> Did we ever set up some @ubuntustudio email addresses?
<astraljava> Or have I dreamt of such?
<zequence> astraljava: Yes, we did
<zequence> astraljava: yours should be astraljava@ubuntustudio.org
<zequence> and should point to one of your existing adresses
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-10-24
<Hypnotoad> knome: Of course.
<astraljava> zequence: Right, so I wasn't fantasizing about that after all. Just came to mind when folks over at Xubuntu side talked about such.
<SpEcKz> !seen ttoine
<ubottu> I have no seen command
<SpEcKz> anyone seen ttoine here guys?
<zequence> OvenWerks: Have you been following what the changes were to fix the UEFI bug?
<zequence> I'm away for the weekend, but next week I really need to finish up work for planning, and set up a meeting between the devs in our team, etc
<OvenWerks> zequence: I will look at it some more. As far as I know, ours should work now. Do we want to try it with the UbuntuStudio back in?
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-10-25
<cub> zequence, is there a plan to when newer versions of the kernel are implemented in the US releases?
<cub> in specific: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2183387
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-10-26
<holstein> OvenWerks: question.. does the USC not show *any* metas? or just ours?
<holstein> is that something we should talk about?
<holstein> tbh, i just dont use the USC...
<OvenWerks> USC shows metas if you search for the exact name
<holstein> OvenWerks: O I C
<OvenWerks> synaptic will let you search ubuntustudio
<holstein> thats fine.. as long as its possible to get to them
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-10-20
<DalekSec> zequence: In case you didn't see, Debian is importing qjackctl version 0.3.12.
<zequence> DalekSec: Too late to bring it in for Utopic. But, we can work on backporting applications to Trusty once they are available in a stable Ubuntu release
<zequence> Hmm, or maybe even in a dev release, now that I think about it
<zequence> So, November the earliest to backport it to Utopic, and then Trusty
<DalekSec> Right, just thought if you hadn't seen it, you might want to know since it's an application of interest.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-10-23
<DalekSec> zequence: You were talking about perhaps not really making note of the 14.10 release, you could also do as mythbuntu does and fully go LTS releases only.
<zequence> DalekSec: We had a discussion about that on the mail list, and decided to keep releasing the ISOs.
<zequence> The only difference is that we recommend people to install the LTS.
<DalekSec> OK, nice.
<zequence> Release announcements away. Hope I didn't mess anything up, as I usually do.
<DalekSec> Want to do the honors in #ubuntustudio, or shall I?
<zequence> DalekSec: You mean change the welcome message?
<DalekSec> The topic, yep.
<zequence> DalekSec: Sure. I might have the rights, but not sure. Also, I've never done it, so be my guest :)
<DalekSec> zequence: "14.04.1 and 14.10 Now Released"
<zequence> DalekSec: Cool. Thanks!
<DalekSec> Of course.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-10-24
<zequence> Just tried Debian linux, and compared to a custom -lowlatency. Identical results on this machine.
<zequence> Gonna do some testing with Ubuntu -generic kernel, and compare with -lowlatency
<zequence> cyclictest was showing extremely nice results for my -lowlatency, compared to the "generic" Debian kernel, however, in practice, I can use the same latency setting for jack on both and I seem to have the same amount of dropouts
<holstein> zequence: that seems good.. seems like what i have been hoping would just trickle into the generic kernel
<holstein> i *cant* wait til im through building this house, and can maybe have a minute or 2 to test some things again
<zequence> holstein: I need more time to test, and research what the difference is. This is just one machine.
<zequence> Need to get a grasp on the new scheduler in use (which I had totally missed)
<zequence> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCHED_DEADLINE
<holstein> yup.. and i have found that with internal hardware and usb, i seemed to get different results, compared to the firewire device
<holstein> and that was 12.10? somewhere around that time...
<zequence> No, I think it's since Utopic actually
<zequence> Since kernel version 3.14
<zequence> Trusty has 3.13
<zequence> Utopic 3.16
<zequence> 3.16 is the one with firewire support in alsa too
<holstein> i mean, for me.. i was getting "similar" performance with the lowlatency and generic last time i tested.. with internal hardware and USB's
<holstein> im stoked about alsa firewire as well
<zequence> Doing cyclictest on this machine gave me numbers for lowlatency that I've only seen on a realtime kernel
<holstein> out of the box firewire audio support!... just in time for firewire to become obselete ;)
<zequence> But, it's a little premature to say anything. Besides, jack was not performing any better
<zequence> Yeah :D
<zequence> cyclictest is a part of rt-tools, a set of tools used for measuring rt kernels
<zequence> There has been some talk about this deadline scheduler. Trying to catch up on all of that
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-10-21
<zequence> Anyone given the RC a try yet?
<zequence> Seems to not be a catastrophe, so testing tomorrow should be fine.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-10-22
<astraljava> I could give it a spin soon.
<zequence> astraljava: Already marked ready and probably published
<zequence> A bit early this time around
<zequence> Ok, another release is out. Now begins my last development cycle, and my last chance to make something good happen :)
<zequence> Well, as project lead, anyway
<astraljava> Heheh, well, congrats are in order, then. :) And here's to the last hurrah. :D May it be most successful. :)
<zequence> I'm sure this cycle will either be great, or not. And, that's as best as I can put it.
<zequence> I'm happy there are more people involved this time around, anyway
<zequence> Hopefully more will join. I'm going to make some effort for that in the coming weeks. Try to gather folks
<astraljava> Sounds good. I can't make any promises. Each time it seems I might have more time, things occur that reduce it into even less. Now it seems I will be very distracted, which can also mean either way. :D
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-10-23
<sakrecoer_> big up zequence !! Let's push things forward!! <3 
<sakrecoer_> as a kind reminder to myself (and perhaps others) in that concern: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVBYF1BAZz0
<zequence> sakrecoer_: :)
<zequence> I will be spending the weekend sorting some stuff out. Simplifying the team structure page, also some other stuff, before I start a discussion about team leaderships.
<zequence> We don't really have that many teams that are vital. Some only exist for technical reasons. So, better to separate them
<zequence> Right now it looks like there are 20 different teams. It looks overcomplicated
<zequence> Right now, we don't have a lot of people who could be candidates for much, but that's no biggie. We do what we can next week.
<zequence> I've been thinking for a long while to reach out to other linux audio communities to try fishing for contributors
<zequence> So, I will be doing that as a way to try get as much people involved before we really begin this cycle
<zequence> I'd really like it if people could come and go a bit as they wanted, and feel anyone could be a part of the whole thing
<zequence> But, I'm afraid many people don't want to be involved in Ubuntu development specifically, which is a bumber
<zequence> Would be great if the next lead was a bit more people friendly than myself, as well :)
<zequence> It's also really important that Linux starts being seen as a true alternative to other OSs in multimedia production, and in this we actually have a chance to make a difference
<zequence> But, not if we are to few, and have too little time
<zequence> What I'm saying is, the Ubuntu Studio community could be great, rich and flourishing. There's no reason it couldn't
<DalekSec> I seem to have missed the part where US went for more than just LTS releases. >_>
<DalekSec> ...Or just confused you with Myth.
<zequence> I think the only difference between the time before there was only 9 months support for non-LTS releases and now, as far as we are concerned, is that we don't change the wallpaper in between LTS-releases
<zequence> We made some changes to menu categorization for 15.10, and it's not ready yet, so in that regard 15.10 becomes like a Beta for 16.04
<sakrecoer_> zequence: sounds like a good plan. i think the group is peope friendly, but then again i am comfortable with taking space by myself. To recruit users, we need to be able to show results. Also, i have noticed my entourage attention towards linux grow, as the other OSs are going further on, on the cloud path, making it very difficult to use piratecopies. With a little help from the corporate giants, i think it will grow way beyond what each
<sakrecoer_> on the PR level, i work much with kids. grown ups are generaly comfortable with the way things are, and are too tighed up in their own biznisses to have the time to learn any alternativ sollutions. Thats why kids are great. After all they are the future.
<zequence> DalekSec: We did have a discussion about whether to keep non-LTS releases, and we decided to keem them
<zequence> I regard them as a sort of rolling release
<DalekSec> Ah.  Bumped your topic in #ubuntustudio for 14.04.3 and 15.10.
<zequence> sakrecoer_: We did have a guy helping out a couple of years ago who was 14 years old :)
<zequence> DalekSec: Oh, right. I always forget about that, and I never remember the commands :P
<sakrecoer_> yeah! i remember that genius! :D smartboychan..
<sakrecoer_> ?
<zequence> Yeah, that's the guy
<zequence> I think he got in trouble in the end for putting too much time into that instead of his school work
<DalekSec> smartboyhw*
<sakrecoer_> DalekSec: right! tahnks! :) zequence: oops :/ well, i can relate.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-10-27
<shwnvntr> hello
<shwnvntr> anyone?
<shwnvntr> no dice either?
<shwnvntr> well if anyone is here, i just wanted to know if anyone working on a pi2/3 version?
<cfhowlett> skip the greeting and post your questions.  
<cfhowlett> probably not but pi has a channel
<shwnvntr> and if i make one where can i post links.. the fan page or the group page on facebook
<cfhowlett> y not both!
<shwnvntr> cause i dont  like joining things i dont have to .. but thanks.. will do... working the last of the bugs.. had a problem with calligra libs.. but i think i got it worked out...thanks
<shwnvntr> still waiting for the join in the group page
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-10-28
<chamois> Hello everyone! sakrecoer sorry but I was busy during this few weeks so I couldn't work on the boot logo. I'll work on it this weekend. Are there any other limits aside from logo and word trademarks?
#ubuntustudio-devel 2018-10-23
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: for how I found a use for jack-mixer, see the other channel :) There was another app I have used in the past, but I wasn't able to find it Or remember it's name even.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2018-10-24
<DMRtech> Hello everybody
#ubuntustudio-devel 2018-10-25
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: How easy would it be to also include the -generic kernel? Someone on a YouTube comment (for an interview that I did for a recently released podcast) that mentioned it would be better for graphics and video to have the generic kernel, which is something we have talked about before.
<OvenWerks> sudo apt install linux ?
 * OvenWerks questions how it would be the generic would be better.
<OvenWerks> It could be they know something I don't but it make sense that if nothing is using the pre-empt part of the things, it would make no difference.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: the main reason pre-empt is not included in generic would be security... making sure no process can take over the cpu and not let anything else use it... though even then it is not "hard" pre-empt like the RT.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2018-10-26
<honkytonkwillie> Will there be a 32-bit release for Ubuntu Studio 18.10?
<honkytonkwillie> Answered on the other channel. Thanks a bunch!
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: To help people looking for help get help when nobody is around, I created this: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/SilentIRC
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-10-21
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: Is avldrums on the list for being packaged for debian?
<OvenWerks> AVLdrums is just fluidsynth with with preloaded sound fonts
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: It is, and I meant to get it packaged for eoan, but it slipped through the cracks as I ran out of time before Feature Freeze & my vacation back in August.
<OvenWerks> cool
<OvenWerks> It is one of the easiest to use drum kits to use, just load the LV2 and play, no SF to load or anything else.
<studiobot> <teward001> ... I do believe 19.10 Carla is FTBFS something fierce :/
<Eickmeyer> @teward001: I'm working with the upstream developer. Something in WINE apparently broke it.
<studiobot> <teward001> ah heh
<Eickmeyer> I think he worked around it in the upcoming 2.1 release, but I need that to actually release before I do anything with it.
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> I forgot to put it here but release post is mirrored on mastodon. Also commented on the new website layout. overall with the last nitpicks that this looks great. I hope all is well with you guys, grats on the release! :)
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: what was the really small monitor size we were trying to get controls to fit in?
<OvenWerks> 880x627 (wxh) right now.
<OvenWerks> my screen is 3200x900 so tyhat is what size I have been working with
<OvenWerks> I am running with my buffer size set to 16 so I can see xruns often enough to count
<OvenWerks> I will say this machine, with this kernel does not seem as stable as my old P4 was. I used to be able to run at 16/2 for 24hours with no xruns... 
<OvenWerks> not possible right now. I think I will try liquroix to see if there really is much of a difference
<OvenWerks> Playing a session on Ardour is like playing an old record with all the clicks and pops
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Probably 1200x800.
<Eickmeyer> Thanks, @azbulutlu!
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-10-22
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: the liquorix kernel has a group of irqs called PCIe BW notif
<OvenWerks> I don't know what they are, there are 6 of them plus another with s-PCIe which has a priority of 85
<OvenWerks> So more than I have cores for (only 4 cores no hyperthreads)
<Eickmeyer> So, that tells me it's possible the liquorix kernel is patched, not configured differently. I doubt the kernel team will like that.
<Eickmeyer> Rather, not ONLY configured differently.
<OvenWerks> Ya we don't want to go there. The difference (at least for me) is minimal anyway
<Eickmeyer> Yeah.
<OvenWerks> Though as I said it is also different kernel versions
<OvenWerks> the stock is 4.* and the liq is 5.*
<Eickmeyer> That's correct in 18.04, not in 19.04 and 19.10.
<studiobot> <teward001> thought we were on 5.* in 19.04+
<Eickmeyer> @teward001: That's correct, but OvenWerks likes to stick with 18.04.
<OvenWerks> Interesting... need to be more apples to apples. When I was testing our kernel before (LL) I had FF open with a few YT tabs open (maybe 40 tabs all togther) but when I was looking at liq, FF was not open.
<OvenWerks> when I run our LL kernel just with Ardour open I had no xruns during play (1 for transport move) but with liq I actually had 5 or 6. This with jack running 32/2
<OvenWerks> So it makes a bigger difference whatelse is using CPU than which kernel.
<OvenWerks> It may also make a bigger difference what HW is in use. Liq may be mo bedda with USB audio devices than with my "obsolete but better than anything new in the price range" PCI audio device.
<Eickmeyer> Thing is, for someone like me, USB is the only option.
<OvenWerks> But for me, I don't have a reasonable USB 2.0 Audio device to try.
<OvenWerks> I am not sure the ones I have are USB 2.0 and not USB 1.1
<OvenWerks> After all they are 1/2 i/o and 16bit at 44k1 or 48k which fits in with USB1.1 quite well.
<wonko> Eickmeyer: Same
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: My Behringer interface goes clear to 192k
<Eickmeyer> Is it necessary? no, but it can.
<wonko> Eickmeyer: so does my KA6
<wonko> but i'm running it at 48k
<wonko> because OvenWerks told me to. :-P
 * OvenWerks pet bats were complaining...
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, I run mine at 48k because my HDMI capture card requires 48k.
<OvenWerks> so much as there is one, 48k is the standard
<OvenWerks> the 44k1 was always just a hack to make CDs able to hold 1 hours of program
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-10-23
<Eickmeyer> teward: If you're alive (I'm up early this morning, couldn't sleep anymore) I need help with an SRU at bug 1849168. I have PPU on this one, It's uploaded to focal (in-queue at the moment), and I got a bit of flack from LocutusOfBorg for not targeting eoan in the bug report (I'm unable to) or including a patch (I have PPU so it's in-queue). Am I missing anything?
<ubottu> bug 1849168 in carla (Ubuntu) "[SRU] Missing build dep libsndfile1-dev discovered" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1849168
<studiobot> <teward001> @Eickmeyer [<Eickmeyer> teward: If you're alive (I'm up early this morning, couldn't sleep a â¦], oh i've been here, what's your question, about it not targeting Eoan in the report?
<studiobot> <teward001> oh
<studiobot> <teward001> Eickmeyer: you can always ask me to set the target
<studiobot> <teward001> since i'm coredev it lets me set the target for all Ubuntu bugs
<studiobot> <teward001> i set it for Eoan and Fix Committed
<studiobot> <teward001> and no, if you have it PPU'd in queue it should be sufficient, though a link to the diff that LP provides would be useful to counter Borg's flak
<studiobot> <teward001> erm actually
<studiobot> <teward001> @Eickmeyer i think your upload will get NACK'd
<studiobot> <teward001> because you have the same version in multiple releases
<studiobot> <teward001> what changelog did you use?
<studiobot> <teward001> nevermind, didn't see the Focal upload too
<studiobot> <teward001> all LOOKS OK there Eickmeyer, i've targeted the Bug Report though
<studiobot> <teward001> Eickmeyer: also if you have PPU you *do* get a Target to Series button when looking at the Ubuntu bug, that'll let you target it
<studiobot> <teward001> had that with NGINX when I had PPU
<studiobot> <teward001> now I have it for all
<studiobot> <teward001> (thanks to coredev)
<Eickmeyer> @teward001: Thanks, I have PPU, but I did not see a Target to Series button, nor would it allow me to edit to target to series. Dunno why.
<studiobot> <teward001> hm.  might need bug control to do that too.  In any case, i targeted the bugs.
<studiobot> <teward001> also wasn't aware you uploaded to Focal too
<studiobot> <teward001> going to write some checkers wrapped around `queue` in ubuntu-archive-tools to see if I can't check queues easily, thought you had a version conflict initially
<studiobot> <teward001> didn't see the Focal upload :P
<Eickmeyer> Gotcha. Yeah, I had uploaded the same version to both queues, infinity NACK'd the Focal, so I reuploaded a no-changes version bump.
<teward> ah, missed things :P
<teward> alls good now
<Eickmeyer> teward: Thanks. Nice to know I actually did it right. :)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-10-26
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: "The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<OvenWerks>  fonts-essays1743 : Breaks: ttf-essays1743 (< 2.100-4)
<OvenWerks> " is thgis a temp problem as both packages are being upgraded?
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-10-27
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: 18.04?
<OvenWerks> The build fail email we got... I could not find out which build looking at the email.
<OvenWerks> Just that it is our ISO
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I wouldn't worry about it right now. The floodgates of focal only just opened. Probably failing for a lot of flavors right now.
<OvenWerks> Ah, focal is the cycle name. That makes sense now.
 * OvenWerks would prefer just numbers :P
<krytarik> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/essays1743/2.100-4 - well, regardless of when the phased-out transitional ttf-essays1743 will be dropped from the archive, should definitely flip that to the actual new fonts-essays1743 one in the fonts seed though.
<Eickmeyer> krytarik: Agreed.
<Eickmeyer> Done
<Pixel01> Hi all, new user here. Looking forward to install ubuntu Studio! I wanted to point out that in the page https://ubuntustudio.org/2019/10/ubuntu-studio-19-10-released/ the "Ubuntu Studio Backports PPA" link is broken. Is this the right URL instead? -> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/BackportsPPA
<OvenWerks> 19.10 should not (yet) have backports available.
<OvenWerks> there is nothing to backport yet
<OvenWerks> Pixel01: ^^
<OvenWerks> it will be propably at least another month before we release anything new for 20.04
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: should there be some sort of a place holder in backports to make it so it works at cycle release? (Is that even possible?)
