#ayatana 2009-04-06
<mpt> davidbarth, MacSlow, good morning, are you subscribed to the xdg@ list?
<MacSlow> mpt, yes ... now I am... for a moment I mixed it up with my xorg list subscription
<mpt> MacSlow, there are technical questions in the "Notifications spec: Icons" thread that you could answer far better than I could
<MacSlow> mpt, subscribed... will take a bit time until I'll can join that discussion... but I will... thanks for the heads up
<davidbarth> mpt: hi
<davidbarth> mpt: yes, i'm on the list
<davidbarth> mpt: anything urgent to read this morning (the discussion started by bo?)
<mpt> davidbarth, one thing that would help is data on how many programs use app_icon, how many use icon_data, and how many use both in the same notification
<mpt> because we're trying to decide which of those to retain and which to rename
<davidbarth> mpt: ok, i think AurÃ©lien will help here
<mpt> great, thanks
 * MacSlow -> lunch
#ayatana 2009-04-07
 * james_w waves
<davidbarth> james_w: hi!
<james_w> hi davidbarth 
 * MacSlow -> lunch
 * Ienorand -> Brownie cake dessert
<RainCT> Uhm.. How are we supposed to join the ML?
<james_w> https://lists.canonical.com/mailman/listinfo/ayatana-project
<RainCT> thx
 * kenvandine_wk thinks we should have a topic
<jens-25621> Hm.. when i start pidgin a email icon appears in the panel. I guess that's gonna change?
<hyperair> nope
<hyperair> it's a "message" icon
<hyperair> it's not gonna change.
<kenvandine_wk> jens-25621: that is the message indicator
<jens-25621> This is intended to replace the pidgin pannel applet, gmail notification, evolution notification, etc. Right?
<kenvandine_wk> eventually yes
<kenvandine_wk> already replaces pidgin and evolution notification icons
* davidbarth changed the topic of #ayatana to: 9.04 bug hunt
<kenvandine_wk> great
<davidbarth> kenvandine_wk: ah, now that its created i can also change it with konversation; previoulsy it did not work
<njpatel> maybe we should stop using #dx now
<kenvandine_wk> yeah
<kenvandine_wk> well
<kenvandine_wk> set the topic there directing folks over here
<davidbarth> +1
<njpatel> sure
<jens-25621> Is there any documents available that explains the idea? I don't quite get the point, except saving panel space.
<kenvandine_wk> one sec
<kenvandine_wk> https://edge.launchpad.net/indicator-applet
<kenvandine_wk> i guess that isn't a great discription
<kenvandine_wk> but it is a central point for human to human interaction
<kenvandine_wk> so things that might need your attention
<jens-25621> Ok, thanks
<tedg> jens-25621: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MessagingMenu/
<jens-25621> Great!
<kenvandine_wk> tedg: thanks... that is better than i came up with
<kenvandine_wk> perhaps we should post a link to a wiki page that talks more about the projects ayatana is working on
<tedg> Probably should link that from the page you sent.
<kenvandine_wk> in the topic that is
<tedg> davidbarth: Perhaps you could make the Ayatana project in LP a "project group" (I don't know how to do that) and then we can make the other projects part of it.  Kinda like how Bazaar and LP itself work.
<james_w> I believe you ask an admin to do that by filing a question at https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<davidbarth> james_w: i had the lists.canonical.com list setup initially, but it seems that a launchpad list is better
<davidbarth> james_w: especially for people with multiple emails
<james_w> did I put the wrong link in the email?
<davidbarth> james_w: i've opened the team to remove the restrictions
<davidbarth> james_w: yes ;) but that's my fault
<davidbarth> james_w: i had the first list setup before
<davidbarth> james_w: i would just like to make sure i have the right launchpad setting, ie
<davidbarth> james_w: the list should be moderated like ubuntu-devel, but apart from that, everybody should be free to join
<davidbarth> james_w: is there some after-post moderation feature in LP
<davidbarth> james_w: or do i need to reapply the "moderated team" setting in LP
<james_w> I'm not sure I'm afraid
<davidbarth> hmm, i need a launchpad guy then ;)
<james_w> I'll follow up on the mailing list
<davidbarth> james_w: hold on, i will post more information once i'm sure the lp setup is ok
<james_w> thanks
 * tedg really wants "debuild" to show an animation of a fairy loosing it's wings if I forget to do an ./autogen.sh first!  So much time lost by forgetting that.
<kenvandine_wk> hehe
<tedg> So when I use g_dgettext do I still need to have the string with a _() around it?
<nealmcb> https://launchpad.net/ayatana and perhaps that MessagingMenu link or the like should probably go in the topic here.  Or something more general, with faqs etc.
<nealmcb> Will the launchpad tabs for code, bugs, translations, answers for ayatana be used, or will the specific code project be used for that stuff e.g. notify-osd?  If the former, you might want to delete them for now to avoid confusing folks
<nealmcb> oops - I mean "if the latter"
<doctormo> hey tedg, what's with the new name?
<tedg> doctormo: We're trying to change it quickly to hide from the community ;)
<doctormo> tedg: heh
<njpatel> tedg: devhelp seems to indicate that _() should be used instead of g_dgettext 
<doctormo> Way to go, someone announced it on the ubuntu-devel mailing list. :-P
<tedg> doctormo: No, the goal is to have something "bigger" for everything that we're doing.  Makes it so that the individual projects can have sensible names :)
<tedg> njpatel: We're on #ubuntu-desktop with the question now :)
 * njpatel hops to #ubuntu-desktop
<doctormo> tedg: sounds good, I'll hang around just to read, there's bound to be interesting stuff.
<tedg> doctormo: Oh, no, now we're going to have to call in the black helicopters to erase the memories of everyone that reads that list!  What a pain. :)
<doctormo> tedg: So apart from the osd-notif, what are the other projects?
<nealmcb> doctormo: more hints at https://launchpad.net/ayatana 
<doctormo> Ta lov
<doctormo> nealmcb: Do you guys need some branding? or are you going in house?
<nealmcb> I'm not one of "you guys" - just curious bystander
<nealmcb> doctormo: "ta lov"?
<james_w> I know Ubuntu is known for brown, but "outhouse" graphics might be going a bit far
<nealmcb> lol
<nealmcb> james_w: The proper term is "organic" :)
<james_w> heh
<doctormo> nealmcb: I thought that was what we all were, curious bystanders... 
<tedg> doctormo: The only other one is http://launchpad.net/indicator-applet
<tedg> doctormo: Lots of patches for apps right now though.  We should find a place to centralize them.
<njpatel> we need desktop-wide text-entry completion
<njpatel> something that effects every gtk-entry
<njpatel> then my keyboard would survive another couple of years
<doctormo> njpatel: that needs hinting, or some form of text box typing... otherwise you'd get a mess
<njpatel> maybe so, but someone should do it :)
<doctormo> njpatel: someone? hang on my cat's trying to jump out of the window...
<njpatel> :-)
 * tedg will miss doctormo's cat, but is glad that he's working on text entry completion.
<doctormo> tedg: I'm working on user data systems, "someone" can work on text entry completion ;-)
<tedg> Hmm, I liked your cat more than I like user data systems...  ;)
<doctormo> tedg: The doctor's cat is not an centralised advanced technoledgy.
 * tedg laughs knowingly as that's exactly what doctormo's cat wants him to believe.
<doctormo> We projected a 1929 cartoon on the wall the other day, that cat kept on trying to bat boe-peep's school teacher. silly cat.
<doctormo> I hope he doesn't do that when we show the chaplin.
<doctormo> tedg: Re the messaging indicator applet, I think it's a usability problem to lump messages to you with messages to others that you got because of some other reason (bcc, mailing list etc)
<doctormo> It'd be better to seperate those out, and I'm hoping it'll be thread aware.
<tedg> doctormo: Well, that depends largely on the evolution plugin.  In Evo it's actually surprisingly hard to get that information.  The goal is to make it "mailbox" aware so that you can filter it that way.  That's talked about in http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MessagingMenu
<doctormo> Oh I'm going to be so happy to put EDS out to pasture. damn that thing. :-)
<tedg> EDS doesn't do mail.
<doctormo> Isn't that the backend store?
<doctormo> Or is EDS just for calendars and contacts?
<tedg> EDS is just for calendars, contacts and I believe notes.
<tedg> Camel is a library, but it does the mail stuff.
<tedg> I don't think EDS will go away, but I'm excited about the DBus merge.
<mpt> davidbarth, maybe you could ask the LP admins to change it
<doctormo> tedg: yes me too, at last I'll be able to use it as a data source for compatability :-)
 * MacSlow -> capoeira
<njpatel> http://johnnyjacob.wordpress.com/2009/04/07/makespace-plugin-for-gnome-evolution/ is nice
<njpatel> could use it for netbooks
<njpatel> I can imagine it would be a bit annoying in the long run, through
<james_w> having something like the KDE 4 menu for that might save some of the annoyance
<james_w> so you have faster access to the directories that are closer to the one you are in
<james_w> have you seen the proposed new netbook interface for evolution?
<james_w> I can't remember the name now
<james_w> ah, anjal
<kenvandine_wk> i started to package anjal :)
<kenvandine_wk> but got busy
<james_w> cool, next cycle :-)
<kenvandine_wk> yeah :)
<kenvandine_wk> it requires patches to evolution
<njpatel> i tried to build it but couldn't get it working
<njpatel> pretty nice though
<james_w> anyone familiar with dbus-glib?
<njpatel> james_w: what part exactly :)
<james_w> I'm trying to chain two calls together
<james_w> and I want to pass user_data that is used when the second call completes
<james_w> (using the async functions)
<james_w> but the first call seems to free the user_data on completion
<james_w> hmm, maybe NULL for the first free_func will prevent that
<njpatel> hmm, it shouldn't touch user_data
<njpatel> james_w: yes :)
<james_w> let me try
<doctormo> That sounds like a scary thought, this is in C right?
<james_w> yeah
<tedg> james_w: I think that you need to annotate the XML file to note that the data shouldn't be free'd.
<james_w> it's not going over the bus though
<james_w> I wouldn't have thought that the XML would matter
<tedg> james_w: Yes, you're annotating how the dbus-glib bindings are built for you.
<james_w> plus it appears to work with NULL as the free_func :-)
<njpatel> if you don't add the free_func, then the user_data should remain allocated
<tedg> Oh, this is using it directly, not with generate API functions?
<james_w> yeah
<njpatel> not sure, james_w want to pastebin if it doesn't work?
<james_w> well, the segfault has now gone, and I get the second call, so I'm happy for now, thanks :-)
<njpatel> segfaults not happening is always good :)
<james_w> http://people.ubuntu.com/~jamesw/nautilus-packagekit.diff
<doctormo> james_w: How do you do that? upload data to your person?
<james_w> doctormo: sorry?
<doctormo> No wait, my mistake, thought that was launchpad
<hyperair> say.. when will libindicate develop a libindicate-bin?
 * hyperair thinks libindicate in an irssi script would be a good idea
<james_w> it's tougher than libnotify
<james_w> you have to persist for as long as the indicator
<tedg> I guess you could build one that took unix signals...  that's be a little convoluted, but possible.
<james_w> you could have one that just read commands from stdin
<james_w> easy to get wrong
<tedg> Heh, probably a better question would be, when is irssi going to get DBus support? ;)
<james_w> they want it remote as well
<james_w> and idea I had was write a dbus service that took a well known name on the session bus, and had methods like "CreateServer", "CreateIndicator" and the like
<james_w> and did them for you
<tedg> Heh, well, you *could* tunnel dbus... okay, I'm going to take my medicine and get off the crazy train ;)
<james_w> they claim they are going to make it work over tcp or something one day :-)
<tedg> james_w: You could really do that with DBus introspection.  It'd be interesting.
<james_w> one day...
<james_w> I don't need it for the apps I use luckily
<james_w> urgh, indicators in xchat is going to be hard
<james_w> well, good ones at least
<ScottK> So how does one subscribe to the mailing list?
<james_w> ScottK: it's moved to launchpad
<james_w> you join ~ayatana and opt to subscribe
<ScottK> So I have to join a team to talk on a list?
<james_w> AIUI
<ScottK> I guess it's so.
<ScottK> That's sufficiently non-intuitive that it might be useful for someone to let people know.
<james_w> yes
<ScottK> james_w: Thanks for letting me know.
<james_w> David said he was checking everything and would then reply to the list
<james_w> it may be in the moderation queue
 * ScottK nods
<james_w> (the list being ubuntu-devel@)
<ScottK> Right
#ayatana 2009-04-08
 * mrooney gives everyone a wave-a-rooney
<eeejay> hi
<eeejay> what does this channel do?
<njpatel> eeejay: this is the main channel for dx now, not #dx
<njpatel> we're trying to get people here, but can't change the topic in #dx :)
<eeejay> njpatel: ah cool, so all the directx and opendx hackers are hanging out here?
<eeejay> ;)
<njpatel> hehe :)
<jens-25621> I wrote some feedback for you at: https://answers.launchpad.net/indicator-applet/+question/66834
<james_w> jens-25621: hi, there is a /Comments page on the wiki that you could leave your feedback on
<james_w> I'm not sure which they would prefer
<jens-25621> I could't do that, because I don't have the right to change the page
<james_w> the /Comments page?
<jens-25621> mm
 * MacSlow -> lunch
 * popey pats mpt 
<mpt> woof
 * popey wonders if mpt is bored of "that" bug report yet :)
<mpt> popey, oh, you could tell? :-)
<tedg> jcastro: Sorry, I was on a call.
<tedg> jcastro: I'm just saying that people aren't in the mood to commit to more this week :)
<jcastro> tedg: oh no worries
<jcastro> I'll just keep bugging you until you capitulate
<tedg> jcastro: I should probably talk about indicating in applications.... not sure exactly if I can do that for a full hour, but I can try :)
<jcastro> tedg: this is openweek so it'd be more user-targetted stuff, like how to use things
<jcastro> save the "how to use libindicate" for developerweek please!
<kenvandine_wk> tedg: we will find a way to indicate to you  if you become boring
<tedg> jcastro: Hmm, okay.  Users... are those the people who comment on bug reports? ;)
<jcastro> I know it's hard for you ted
<popey> tedg: http://meow.popey.com 
<tedg> I am trying to think of something that would be interesting to users though.  The difficult parts of the messaging indicator are all non-user issues.
<tedg> popey: I have no clue why you sent me a picture of a cat, but it's a cute one :)
<kenvandine_wk> tedg: well... i think an introduction to the messaging indicator for the users would be great
<kenvandine_wk> although, i would be happy to do that too
<kenvandine_wk> seems there are lots of folks that still don't get it 
<kenvandine_wk> and i do love talking about it :)
<kenvandine_wk> tedg: so if you don't want to talk about how users use the MI... and how it affects them... i can do that... but of course you get dibs 
<tedg> kenvandine_wk: Sure, you should talk about it.  I think that'd be cool.  And the session will probably be sometime reasonable US time so I can be there :)
<kenvandine_wk> ok
<tedg> jcastro: Is someone going to talk about software updates and the changes there?
<tedg> I can volunteer to take the slings and arrows there if need be.
<kenvandine_wk> jcastro: ok, i signed up :)
<jcastro> tedg: that sounds great!
<tedg> mpt: Do you want to talk about the update-manager changes in Open Week?
<mpt> What's Open Week?
<tedg> mpt: Hour long slots to talk about various user facing issues.
<tedg> mpt: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/Prep
<mpt> hm
<mpt> Neither that page nor the main UbuntuOpenWeek page seem to mention who the target audience is
<kenvandine_wk> jcastro: you should define the audience on the wiki page
<mpt> jcastro, perhaps explain a bit more what the purpose is, e.g. is it to excite users (or at least the sort of users who use IRC), or attract new Ubuntu contributors, or what
<jcastro> mpt: I was just getting to that
<jcastro> that was missing on the boilerplate
<jcastro> that's usually on the announcement
<mpt> ok
<jcastro> kenvandine_wk: feel free to claim a time slot in the grid
 * mpt reads jcastro's e-mail announcement :-)
<mpt> tedg, after reading that, I don't think talking about the software update changes would be relevant to attracting new contributors
<tedg> mpt: Okay, don't read that then ;)
<tedg> mpt: I think that it is a user face issue, and one that would probably benefit from being discussed in a "lecture type" format because we could go through it all, where as everyone has looked at minute pieces otherwise.
<tedg> user facing that is.
 * mpt puts another 10 minutes of his life into bug 332945
<popey> :(
<kenvandine_wk> bratsche: do you have a version of your bluez-gnome patch for gnome-bluetooth?
<kenvandine_wk> upstream requested it... so i guess that means they will accept this patch :)
<bratsche> No, but I'd be glad to make one after the release.
<kenvandine_wk> great
<kenvandine_wk> please do... it would probably be rather trivial now since it was just forked
<kenvandine_wk> then upstream has to maintain it :)
<bratsche> Yeah, true.
<bratsche> :)
<bratsche> Is there a bug open for it upstream yet?
<bratsche> If there is, just CC me on it or assign it to me or something.
<bratsche> My bugzilla is bratsche@gnome.org
<kenvandine_wk> bratsche: no bug... but an email
<bratsche> Okay, I'll file it.
<kenvandine_wk> right... gnome-bluetooth is in bz?
<bratsche> I don't know yet. :)
<bratsche> Do you still know the Ubuntu bug# for this?
<bratsche> I think I found it..
<bratsche> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bluez-gnome/+bug/337219 right?
<bratsche> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=578396
<kenvandine_wk> yeah
<kenvandine_wk> thx
<kenvandine_wk> bratsche: i will point the guy that requested it at that bug
<kenvandine_wk> thx
<kenvandine_wk> oh... he did that via launchpad :)
<tedg> bratsche: How does the removing the escaping in pidgin-libnotify effect notification-daemon?
<bratsche> tedg: I'm thinking it's probably a good idea, because then we can keep all this filtering shit in one place at least.
<tedg> bratsche: So should I unmerge your patch?
<bratsche> Do you have the bug# handy that it came from?  I forgot what it looks like now.
<bratsche> Oh oh, the one that I just did?
<bratsche> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pidgin-libnotify/+bug/356147 ?
<tedg> bratsche: Yes.
<bratsche> tedg: But then after unmerging you want to remove all the markup escaping right?
<bratsche> Oh wait.
<bratsche> You said how would it affect notification-daemon
<bratsche> I keep getting confused because that's such a generic name that I'm still thinking notify-osd
<bratsche> tedg: So actually, we may need to keep that.  Perhaps we should ask mpt
<tedg> bratsche: Yeah, I'm thinking that notification-daemon needs the escaping.
<bratsche> Yeah I'm thinking so too.
<tedg> So we can't remove it, or it'll break there.
<tedg> So we have to handle it on the notify-osd side.
<kenvandine_wk> eeejay: ping
<bratsche> mpt around still?
<bratsche> Err.. actually, nevermind.. not yet. :)
<tedg> bratsche: So I should drop your non-escaping headers patch, right?
<tedg> bratsche: In pidgin-libnotify
<tedg> Sorry I keep asking, I just want to be sure - and I keep getting interrupted :)
<maco> the  "Joe&apos;s phone is online" thing?
<tedg> maco: Yes.
<bratsche> tedg: No, I think you should keep it.  Because we want to keep escaping things to make pidgin-libnotify operate decently with notification-daemon, right?  And this patch basically makes it so it only escapes body text, and not summary text.. right?
<maco> is it possible to escape based on which is in use?
<tedg> bratsche: It makes it so that we don't escape the header.
<bratsche> I didn't test g_markup_escape_text() exactly yet, but the Pango markup escaping is fucking up certain things.
<bratsche> tedg: Right, we should not be escaping the header.
<tedg> bratsche: If we don't, then what does notification-daemon do with it?
<bratsche> tedg: mpt was very clear about this, that the spec specifically says that the header/summary text should be as-is.  So if applications are sending markup to the header, it's a bug in the application.
<tedg> maco: It should be one standard... fixing one app means that all others are broken.  notify-osd needs to be a drop in replacement for notification-daemon.
<tedg> bratsche: Ah, okay.
<maco> good point
<bratsche> tedg: Dude, the Pango markup stuff is so broken.  I've almost got a series of GRegex's to make this work.  This is killing me. :)
<bratsche> I didn't test g_markup_escape_text() in particular, but I'm going to have to remove the Pango markup escaping from notify-osd.
<tedg> bratsche: Heh -- so glad I didn't get assigned that bug ;)
<tedg> The Pango markup is a little weird, I don't get why it's so different.
<maco> well hey i wanted to ask about when you have 1 person with 2 accounts and the same alias grouped in pidgin, if they sign on and have a multi-protocol client too (so both accounts come online) it says something like "Joe is online is online" but since they're grouped, i think it ought to be treated as one thing
<bratsche> tedg: It's not finished yet, but check out this hotness: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/25059106/356659-1.diff
<tedg> maco: That makes sense.  We don't detect the grouped buddies at all though.  It'd be a relatively big change at this point in the release cycle.
<tedg> bratsche: Heh.  Crazy.
<bratsche> I've got one more to do next.
<maco> something to mark down as a "would be nice for karmic"?
<tedg> maco: Yes, a wishlist bug would be cool.
<maco> kk
<bratsche> tedg: For Karmic I'm thinking about trying to change Pango's markup parser to be more extensible.  I need to talk to behdad about that, but it's something I was thinking about trying to do for a gtk+ feature I want to do anyway.
 * tedg thinks it was nice knowing the sane-bratsche
<bratsche> I don't think it'll be that bad.
<bratsche> The thing in gtk+ I was going to do was have GtkLabel support <a href> links.
<bratsche> I already wrote extensible Pango attributes (so you could define a Link attribute that extends the Pango underline attribute, for example)
<bratsche> Then to be able to extend the markup parser seems like it would be useful to go along with that.
<tedg> Sounds good to me.  I'm not sure where I'd use it, but I'm sure I'll figure out something :)
<bratsche> Well, I think it might have made this html filtering stuff easier for notify-osd.
<bratsche> Maybe not though. :)
<eeejay> bratsche: man, i am glad you took the html filtering :)
<bratsche> heh
#ayatana 2009-04-09
<kenvandine_wk> eeejay: see my merge request?
<vorian> oh brother
<Hobbsee> hm?
<vorian> this channel is not registered 
<tedg> vorian: How do we register it?
<vorian> that's gonna be tricky :)
 * tedg is relatively new to this stuff.
<vorian> tedg: first things is this, a group contact needs to be established
 * vorian gets another linky
<vorian> http://freenode.net/group_registration.shtml
<tedg> vorian: Okay, that makes sense.  We're closely related to the Ubuntu folks.  Does it make sense to put us under their contact, or to create another?
<tedg> vorian: Or does that imply a namespace?
<vorian> i would create another, but it is up to you all, and the #ubuntu IRC council
<vorian> yeah, that would imply a namespace
 * vorian would stick with this one
<tedg> vorian: Thanks for the information, I think that davidbarth would probably be a good contact, but he's asleep right now.
<vorian> no problem
<tedg> vorian: I'll send him a mail, and hopefully get this started tomorrow.
<vorian> excellent
<tedg> vorian: What should we do about #dx?  Wait until this is registered?
<vorian> there's not much that can be done about it
<tedg> Can you set the topic to "everyone's moved to #ayatana" ?
<tedg> So atleast people know we're not leaving them behind :)
<vorian> what if a nintendo fan comes in, and thinks "cool, we moved!"
<tedg> Then we'll work on making them a Ubuntu fan ;)
<vorian> :)
<tedg> Perhaps text like "If you're looking for the Ubuntu DX channel it is now #ayatana"
<mpt> bratsche, notification-daemon treats title text verbatim too
<mpt> Try it: notify-send "Joe's phone is online" "fish &amp; chips"
<mpt> Compare with notify-send "Joe&apos;s phone is online" "fish &amp; chips"
<mpt> notification-daemon renders the "&apos;" as "&apos;"
<mpt> so, so should notify-osd.
<davidbarth> eeejay: hi eitan
<davidbarth> do you have the latest pidgin package (pidgin + indicator stuff)?
 * MacSlow -> lunch
<eeejay> hey tedg!
<tedg> Good morning eeejay
<eeejay> tedg: kenvandine_wk: we need some quick decisions about the python bindings, eh?
<tedg> eeejay: Yes.
<tedg> kenvandine_wk: Did you get an initial upload sponsored?
<kenvandine_wk> yes
<kenvandine_wk> with the patch
<eeejay> kenvandine_wk: patch that lets it build against 0.1.5?
<kenvandine_wk> yes
<eeejay> ah, cool
<kenvandine_wk> eeejay: tedg has a branch that fixes some stuff that broke with 0.1.5
<kenvandine_wk> eeejay: and i have a merge request too
<kenvandine_wk> think you can bring all that together and make a 0.0.3?
<eeejay> kenvandine_wk: you bet..
<kenvandine_wk> eeejay: rock!
<kenvandine_wk> thx
<eeejay> kenvandine_wk: so this branch add some important dist files, bumps the version..
 * eeejay looks
<kenvandine_wk> yeah
<kenvandine_wk> the last tarball had 0.0.1 in configure.ac
<kenvandine_wk> but was a 0.0.2 tarball
<eeejay> hehe
<kenvandine_wk> also the COPYING files... we had some complaints in getting it reviewed about that
<kenvandine_wk> since it is dual licensed
<kenvandine_wk> so i did that
<kenvandine_wk> as well as the files in tests
<eeejay> kenvandine_wk: where does the build patch you made live?
<kenvandine_wk> tedg's branch
<kenvandine_wk> one sec
 * eeejay didn't know it is dual licensed
<kenvandine_wk> it is in the source files :)
<kenvandine_wk> i assumed you did that
<kenvandine_wk> lp:~ted-gould/indicator-applet/python-bindings-dont-know-what-im-doing
<eeejay> kenvandine_wk: doh!
<tedg> eeejay: We had to do LGPL v2/3 because some apps can't link against one or the other.
<eeejay> kenvandine_wk: tedg: ah.. phew, i thought i was just being sloppy
<kenvandine_wk> hehe
<kenvandine_wk> eeejay: i think merging my branch and tedgs into your's... then create a tarball
<eeejay> tedg: i couldn't get your branch to work with listen-and-print.py, is it supposed to?
<kenvandine_wk> eeejay: it would also be great if the tests files got installed as docs
<tedg> eeejay: I didn't try that.  I asked kenvandine_wk to check out Gwibber and Gajim.
<tedg> eeejay: Probably I broke the listener interface.
<eeejay> tedg: but they don't use the listener iface
<tedg> I said in the branch name that I didn't know what I was doing ;)
<eeejay> tedg: true, i guess you aren't liable then
<kenvandine_wk> i tested the im example, gwibber and gajim
<eeejay> kenvandine_wk: i updated trunk to work with 0.1.5
<eeejay> kenvandine_wk: without tedg's branch
<kenvandine_wk> gajim actually only half works... but i think that is because the gajim guys changed my patch :)
<tedg> eeejay: Do you see an easy thing that I broke?
<kenvandine_wk> eeejay: ok... i tested it with tedg's changes
<eeejay> tedg: you didn't break anything that was not broken already
<tedg> eeejay: I was just trying to change to O instead of s and i for the various indicator struct pointers.
<eeejay> tedg: but you failed to fix the listener iface :)
<tedg> Does it make sense to mark it as broken for 0.0.3 then?
<eeejay> tedg: yeah, that won't work. you obviously didn't know what you were doing ;)
<eeejay> tedg: yes, it does
 * eeejay wrote about it extensively in the merge request
<eeejay> https://code.launchpad.net/~ted-gould/indicator-applet/python-bindings-dont-know-what-im-doing/+merge/5366
<tedg> eeejay: Heh, hadn't gotten to that mail yet.
<tedg> eeejay: Yes, everything you say there :)
<kenvandine_wk> eeejay: hummm... it did work though :)
<eeejay> kenvandine_wk: what worked?
<tedg> eeejay: So without the boxing, could we have something reasonable that would link against 0.1.5?  It seems so if we drop listener, right?
<kenvandine_wk> tedg's code
<eeejay> tedg: exactly
<tedg> And the fact that you manually undid the enum, that would be "unpythonic" but work.
<eeejay> kenvandine_wk: with gwibber and gajim? yeah, it should work with those
<eeejay> kenvandine_wk: the listener interface is broken
<kenvandine_wk> eeejay: ok... so it works fine for everything we know about now
<eeejay> kenvandine_wk: which only matters if you are implementing a new indicator-applet-like app
<kenvandine_wk> so not "awefule"
<kenvandine_wk> aweful even
<kenvandine_wk> but we should fix it
<hyperair> does anybody know if Bug #345837 is reallly a duplicate of Bug #345296?
<eeejay> tedg: the enum actually is not relevant, since the listener iface is broken
<hyperair> their descriptions seem to show that the bugs really are different.
<kenvandine_wk> eeejay: ok... so you already have these issues fixed?
<eeejay> kenvandine_wk: yeah, we should keep the gwibber and gajim folks happy
<tedg> eeejay: Except for the signal coming from the server to say that someone is interested, right?
<tedg> eeejay: I think, interested_added and interest_removed both use the enum.
<eeejay> tedg: which symbol does that?
<tedg> I doubt that Gwibber or Gajim are using that though.
 * eeejay looks at server.h
<kenvandine_wk> eeejay: today is freeze... so if we are getting a fix in, lets do it real soon :)
<eeejay> kenvandine_wk: okie dokes
<tedg> hyperair: Seems odd to me too.  MacSlow do you know if those bugs are dups ^^
<hyperair> tedg: it would be nice if that oen could get fixed before jaunty, because it's really annoying if you use media keys with banshee.
<tedg> So, to summarize.  If we go with my "don't know what I'm doing branch" and make a 0.0.3 we'll link against 0.1.5 but the listener interface will be broken.  And we've got a plan to make that better for 0.0.4.  Is that a good summary eeejay kenvandine_wk?
 * eeejay moves swiftly
<eeejay> tedg: the relevant changes from your branch have been in trunk for a while
 * eeejay acts swiftly
<kenvandine_wk> eeejay: well how hard is fixing the listener interface?
<tedg> eeejay: Heh, okay.  Are you going to spin a 0.0.3 then or should I?
<kenvandine_wk> it would be nice to make a 0.0.3 with that
<kenvandine_wk> tedg: cause what we have now is as good as that... no need to spin a release :)
<eeejay> tedg: let me get the branch in shape, we could all agree, and i will cut a release
<kenvandine_wk> tedg: 0.0.2 was uploaded with the patch from your branch
<tedg> kenvandine_wk: Yeah, I'd like to get something cleaner than what I did if possible.
<kenvandine_wk> tedg: yeah... but i am hoping we can fix the other issue at the same time :)
<tedg> kenvandine_wk: I'm not a python fan, and I think it shows :)
<kenvandine_wk> hehe
 * kenvandine_wk would chose python over C any day... but lets not have that debate
 * tedg is going to make a T-shirt: "You can take my semicolon from my cold dead hands."  :)
 * eeejay rejects tedg's branch because of his hateful comments
 * hyperair kills tedg and takes his semicolon
<eeejay> kenvandine_wk: would you mind testing trunk one last time before i upload the tarball?
<hyperair> tedg: i believe it's s/take/pry/
<kenvandine_wk> eeejay: certainly
<tedg> hyperair: Heh, need to spend more time at NRA rallies... research...
<kenvandine_wk> eeejay: is it ready now?
<eeejay> kenvandine_wk: yup!
<eeejay> kenvandine_wk: lp:~indicator-applet-developers/indicator-applet/indicate-python <- to avoid confusion
<hyperair> tedg: ?
<tedg> hyperair: I believe that the guns phrase that is taken from is an NRA one.
<kenvandine_wk> testing nwo
<eeejay> i think charlton heston would say that at NRA rallies
<hyperair> tedg: no idea. i see it everywhere
<eeejay> or michael moore lead me to believe that
<eeejay> kenvandine_wk: not so smooth?
<Hobbsee> gah.  Did this latest version of pidgin stuff get tested?
<Hobbsee> i'm now getting pidgin segfaulting.
<kenvandine_wk> eeejay: sorry... phone rang
<kenvandine_wk> testing now
<eeejay> kenvandine_wk: phew, thought you were in debugging craze
<tedg> Hobbsee: pidgin-libnotify?  There is a big pidgin bug with Jabber right now.
<kenvandine_wk> eeejay: not good
<eeejay> kenvandine_wk: crasher?
<Hobbsee> tedg: oh, there was another change there.  I assumed it was notify killing it.
<kenvandine_wk> File "/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/indicate/__init__.py", line 26, in <module>
<kenvandine_wk>     from _indicate import *
<kenvandine_wk> ImportError: /usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/indicate/_indicate.so: undefined symbol: indicate_server_show_indicator_to_user
<tedg> Hobbsee: It seems to be related to gstreamer -- I don't really get how though.
<kenvandine_wk> eeejay: ^^
<Hobbsee> tedg: oh, fun.  
<eeejay> kenvandine_wk: checking now..
<Hobbsee> tedg: thanks.  Wish I knew how to disable the jabber bit!
<tedg> Hobbsee: I don't think there's a way, but if you uninstall one of the gstreamer plugin packs, I think bad, it gets better.
<Hobbsee> tedg: thanks
<eeejay> kenvandine_wk: i don't have that symbol in my version, are you certain you installed it in  /usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/indicate?
<kenvandine_wk> yes
<kenvandine_wk> i did a make dist
<kenvandine_wk> then build the package from that tarball
<kenvandine_wk> let me compare files
<eeejay> kenvandine_wk: if you didn't give it /usr as the prefix, it should be in /usr/local
<kenvandine_wk> oh
<kenvandine_wk> humm
<kenvandine_wk> eeejay: i installed it from a package
<kenvandine_wk> it didn't use my tarball
<kenvandine_wk> hang on
<eeejay> you scared me for a moment
<eeejay> i usually give it some arbitrary prefix, and set PYTHONPATH to that
<kenvandine_wk> i like testing with packages
<kenvandine_wk> i am a nut that way
<eeejay> heh
<hyperair> davidbarth: you marked bug #345837 as a dupicate of #345296 right? are you sure it's really a duplicate?
<hyperair> davidbarth: the descriptions seem rather different.
<davidbarth> hyperair: hi, let me check again
<hyperair> davidbarth: alright 
<davidbarth> hyperair: you're right this one is not a duplicate
<davidbarth> it is the issue with the close_notification_handler
<hyperair> hmm
<hyperair> haven't looked at notify-osd's code yet
<Hobbsee> tedg: speaking of pidgin, has anyone tested the notifications on dist-upgraded machines?  I found some strangeness, before i wiped my ~/.purple directory, and started again
<hyperair> but it would be good if the priority for this bug could be raised a little
<davidbarth> but there was anohter bug I thought with banshee/rhythmbox bubbles crashing into synchronous ones
<hyperair> it's very annoying, and very visible when you use banshee with media keys
<davidbarth> hyperair: the problem has been fixed (sort of) by not sending confirmation bubbles from gnome-settings-daemon
<hyperair> davidbarth: rhythmbox doesnt have this issue, because it updates the existing bubble rather than deleting the old and spawning a new
<davidbarth> hyperair: from an architecture point of view, that was not great
<hyperair> hmm. why not?
<davidbarth> so the bug should not occur anymore
<davidbarth> even if the corner-case still exists in the layout code of n-osd
<hyperair> davidbarth: it won't occur as often, but it'll still occur.
<tedg> Hobbsee: I haven't tried that specifically.  Though I haven't noticed any bugs related to something like that.  What was the weirdness?
<hyperair> davidbarth: e.g. when i adjust my volume when pidgin fires up a notification
<hyperair> davidbarth: and there are multiple
<davidbarth> hyperair: ah, and pidgin /force/ closes the bubbles?
<kenvandine_wk> eeejay: ok... it works
<kenvandine_wk> the listener still shouldn't work right?
<Hobbsee> tedg: new messages in pidgin not showing up in the envelope at all (although it would show up most of the time with the little black notification)
<eeejay> kenvandine_wk: sweet!
<hyperair> davidbarth: you don't need to force close the bubbles for it to happen i think
<eeejay> kenvandine_wk: right
<eeejay> kenvandine_wk: pushing a tarball now
<kenvandine_wk> thx
<hyperair> davidbarth: but okay, supposing you change your volume while banshee's switching songs, you'd get that.
<Hobbsee> tedg: ie, if you missed the black notification, there was absolutely no indication of a new message
<davidbarth> hyperair: the bug with update was fixed, as well as other potential visual collisions between sync and async bubbles
<tedg> Hobbsee: That might have been related to a couple of bugs that we just fixed in indicator-messages, they had the possibility of getting lost.
<davidbarth> it's in the lates tarball of today (not yesterday)
<davidbarth> brb
<tedg> Hobbsee: Hopefully those are fixed, I'm curious why removing .purple would solve that.
<tedg> Hobbsee: Honestly, I'm hoping they were unrelated :)
<Hobbsee> tedg: I'm not sure.  I tested it a few days ago, removed ~/.purple, set up the user accounts again, and it worked fine.
<hyperair> davidbarth: i see, then it should be considered fixed then =\
<Hobbsee> tedg: might be worth trying to find some people to test that
<eeejay> tedg: i don't think i have perms to register a new release in the 0.1 indicator-applet series
<bratsche> Oh nice, I think this new text filter works well.
<tedg> eeejay: Okay, made it: https://edge.launchpad.net/indicator-applet/0.1/python0.0.3
<tedg> eeejay: Can you add files?
<eeejay> tedg: yep, thanks
<eeejay> tedg: kenvandine_wk: released
<tedg> eeejay: Yeah!  Great!
<kenvandine_wk> great
<kenvandine_wk> i already subscribed motu-release :)
<kenvandine_wk> bug 358483
<eeejay> sweet
<kenvandine_wk> asac and james_w are looking at it
<kenvandine_wk> eeejay: mind filing a bug about the listener so we can track it?
<eeejay> kenvandine_wk: yup, will do
<kenvandine_wk> thx
<kenvandine_wk> please subscribe me too :)
<maco> away
<maco> whoops
#ayatana 2009-04-10
<davidbarth> eeejay: hey eitan, i'm here
<eeejay> hey davidbarth, no release meeting?
<davidbarth> eeejay: i have a thing to see with ted and can call you just after
<davidbarth> postponed 1h apparently
<eeejay> davidbarth: no problem
<eeejay> hey tedg, the gtypified branch is in a good state, i am not putting in a merge request, because I don't know if it would be appropriate now post freeze
<eeejay> tedg: but you should peak, it is really cool
<tedg> eeejay: I don't think it would be, but let me make a 0.2 branch...
<eeejay> tedg: peek that is, not peak
<rickspencer3> anyone from the design team here today?
<tedg> Uh, fail.  OO.o spread sheet has the cell marking move differently than the column highlights.  There's a noticeable delay.
#ayatana 2010-04-12
<Nafai> tedg: Around?
<tedg> Nafai: Yup.
<Nafai> So, here's the bug report: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-bluetooth/+bug/558841
<ubot4`> Launchpad bug 558841 in gnome-bluetooth (Ubuntu) "bluetooth "devices" menu item not working in bluetooth indicator (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [High,Confirmed]
<Nafai> There are not any significant related changes to gnome-bluetooth itself since I last knew things were working
<Nafai> I'm really unsure of what is going on.  When I turn on bluetooth, it only shows the devices label but not the paired devices.  I can kill the applet and re-launch it and it will then show the devices
<Nafai> At the end of the function that creates that portion of the menu, I see this:
<Nafai> 	gtk_ui_manager_ensure_update (uimanager);
<Nafai> I wonder if the interaction of that and libappindicator is the problem
<Nafai> And how can I go about debugging what is going on?
<tedg> Nafai: Probably the first thing is to look at the menu it's sending.
<tedg> Nafai: Have you used dbusmenu-dumper before?
<Nafai> Yeah, it's been a while though, can you remind me what args to use?
<tedg> dbusmenu-dumper --dbus-name=org.gnome.Bluetooth.applet --dbus-object=/org/ayatana/NotificationItem/bluetooth_manager/Menu
<Nafai> thanks
<Nafai> tedg: ok, indeed this menu it is receiving doesn't have the device submenus
<Nafai> does that indicate it is likely in the bluetooth code itself?
<tedg> Nafai: Either that or the libappindicator parsing code.
<tedg> Nafai: I'd throw some debugging info into libappindicator and see what pops out.
<Nafai> ok, I've read enough of that code I think I know where to throw that in
<Nafai> I'll ping you again in a few if I need some more
<Nafai> how late will you be around tonight?
<tedg> Cool, I'll probably start making dinner here in a bit.  But, then I'll probably be back later in the evening.
<Nafai> ok, thanks
<tedg> My whole day has turned into waiting on downloads :-/
<Nafai> :(
#ayatana 2010-04-13
<Nafai> jcastro: So have you tried the Ubuntu One contacts sync with your Nexus One yet?
<jcastro> Nafai: no I use google for everything
<jcastro> I didn't get a "it's finished" vibe from the funambol client I saw
 * Nafai nods
<Nafai> I can't use any of the android clients because they seem to be for 2.x and I'm still on 1.6 on my G1
<mrdoob> evening!
#ayatana 2010-04-14
 * thorwil waves to djsiegel 
<djsiegel> hey dude
<djsiegel> how are you, thorwil?
<thorwil> djsiegel: fine, thanks. and you?
<djsiegel> thorwil: so much work before UDS!
<hyperair> tedg: what happens to an appindicator using application if indicator-{application,applet} isn't installed?
<hyperair> i'd like to know because of banshee-extension-appindicator depending on indicator-{application,applet}.
<tedg> hyperair: It should fall back to using the notification area
<hyperair> tedg: okay, so i should remove the dependency?
<tedg> hyperair: Uhm, yeah, I don't think there should be.
<hyperair> okay
<tedg> hyperair: Thanks for the cli packaging patch
<hyperair> tedg: no problem.
<tedg> hyperair: I have no clue what it did, but I assume that you do :)
<hyperair> tedg: yes, i do :)
<hyperair> tedg: the policy violations aside, you had binary/libappindicator0-cil:: binary-arch, where binary-arch is an internal CDBS rule that depends upon binary/libappindicator0-cil somehow or other.
<hyperair> tedg: and in the redefined binary-arch rule, you did the dh_*cli* things.
<hyperair> tedg: so the ordering was off
<hyperair> this is why..... don't use CDBS ;-)
<tedg> hyperair: Hmm.  Okay.  And so what did that create on the backend, just the messed up dependency?
<hyperair> tedg: in the end it was missing clilibs, which is the cli equivalent of shlibs.
<hyperair> tedg: so similarly, ${cli:Depends} was missing things, just as a missing shlibs would leave missing things from ${shlibs:Depends}
<tedg> hyperair: There's another Mono patch that I just merged, not sure how important it is: https://code.launchpad.net/~bratsche/indicator-application/assemblyinfo/+merge/23407
<tedg> hyperair: Ah, okay.  I see now.
<hyperair> pardon my english, it seems a little off today.
<tedg> hyperair: Do you need that patch in the package before the Banshee extensions rebuild?
<hyperair> tedg: ideally.
<tedg> k
<hyperair> er make that a definite yes.
<hyperair> will that be ubuntu3?
<hyperair> i'll tighten the dep further
<tedg> Sure, yeah.  I'll get that one together.
<tedg> We'll make it 3
<hyperair> okay
<Nafai> tedg: Around? :)
<tedg> Nafai: Yes.
<Nafai> So I've done as much as I can do to figure out the bluetooth bug and could use a little direction
<Nafai> here's a summary of what I've found:
<Nafai> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-bluetooth/+bug/558841/comments/5
<ubot4`> Launchpad bug 558841 in gnome-bluetooth (Ubuntu) "bluetooth "devices" menu item not working in bluetooth indicator (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [High,In progress]
<tedg> Hmm, that's definitely odd.  bratsche, do you have any ideas? ^
<Nafai> would it be helpful if I pastebined the bluetooth-applet code or such and pointed you to the appropriate functions to see what it is doing?
 * bratsche clicks
<Nafai> Here's some links to code: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-bluetooth/+bug/558841/comments/6
<ubot4`> Launchpad bug 558841 in gnome-bluetooth (Ubuntu) "bluetooth "devices" menu item not working in bluetooth indicator (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [High,In progress]
<Nafai> any ideas? :)
<tedg> Nafai: I'm sorry I don't.  I'm guessing unless he got distracted, bratsche doesn't as well.
<tedg> I'm trying to chase down a dbusmenu bug that is sucking.
<tedg> :(
<Nafai> :(
<tedg> Nafai: I'd look at the GtkAction stuff.  It's probably doing something different.
<tedg> Nafai: See if you can look at that tree and see what it's up to.
<Nafai> I know there was some changes in the last little while in the way libappindicator handled that, so I'll look
<Nafai> because there haven't been any changes to this part of the bt indicator code
<tedg> Nafai: You can try building old versions of libappindicator -- see which version it broke in.
<tedg> Nafai: That might narrow it down.
 * Nafai nods
<Nafai> yeah, I might do that
<Nafai> Is there an easy way of finding out which version was shipped with alpha3?
<Nafai> that's when the bug reporter reports it working and then he upgraded to beta2 and it broke
<tedg> Nafai: I'd just look at the dates
<Nafai> ok
<tedg> Nafai: It should be pretty close
<Nafai> okay, I narrowed it down to the version where the problem arises
<Nafai> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/indicator-application/ubuntu/revision/98
<Nafai> uh, so confused
<Nafai> I don't see anything there that I imagine could cause this regression :(
#ayatana 2010-04-15
<Nafai> but 0.0.16-0ubuntu2 worked as desired
 * Nafai tries again
<Nafai> Yup, it's in 0.0.17-0ubuntu1
 * Nafai boggles
<Nafai> tedg: So...check out ^
<tedg> Nafai: Did you logout out and in again after downgrading to 0.0.16?
<tedg> Nafai: Since it uses a different name on the bus
<tedg> Nafai: It might be falling back to using the notification area
<tedg> Nafai: Instead of using the indicator framework.
<hyperair> vish++
<hyperair> (regarding window-button-order issue)
<hyperair> vish: have you ever triggered the window menu by mistake in earlier versions of ubuntu?
<vish> hyperair: i might have but i dont really recall , as it wasnt as destructive as closing
<hyperair> vish: good point. i was just thinking i don't recall hitting the window menu before
<vish> hyperair: IMO , everyone just gave up trying to reason out.. and the end loss is going to be the end-user , since *we* failed reason out well enough
<thorwil> vish: i'd think that you are a highly skilled mouse or touchpad user. if you hit Close instead of File repeatedly, I would assume it can only be worse for less trained users
<vish> thorwil: surely
<hyperair> agreed.
<hyperair> especially for an aunt of mine whose cursor quivers as it moves slowly across the screen
<hyperair> (she seems almost scared of the mouse)
<vish> thorwil: sad to see ivanka getting blamed for this though ;) >  https://twitter.com/azaaza/status/11712409316
<seb128> it's easy enough to change the theme
<thorwil> vish: i take that comment to be referring to the language of that blog post, not the decision
<seb128> I can't believe people argue so much about buttons
<thorwil> seb128: i can't believe there are still people who apparently don't think things should be set up save and sane out of the box
<seb128> it's a freaking button order
<seb128> what is not sve?
<seb128> save
<seb128> it took me like a day to got used to move the mouse in the other corner
<hyperair> seb128: i'm curious. isn't the button order a gconf thing?
<hyperair> seb128: changing the theme isn't going to change the button order, is it?
<vish> seb128: yup , easy for me to change.. and i did ;)  but the question is the default and when we install for non-technical users do we change it for others as well..
<vish> anyways , i dont expect any change , was just giving a feedback .. 
<hyperair> frankly speaking, i don't care about any UI stupidity that our UX guys commit, as long as i can disable it (think update-manager starting up automatically, notify-osd spawning in the middle of the screen for some time in karmic)
<seb128> hyperair, it is
<seb128> hyperair, it does, we made the capplet does that
<hyperair> seb128: ah that is cool.
<seb128> hyperair, the order by default for theme is the old one and can be overwriten in the theme index
<seb128> hyperair, the new theme overwrite it
<hyperair> seb128: cool. i didn't think that had been done.
<seb128> so any other theme if you select it will still use the old order
<hyperair> that's nice.
<hyperair> i suppose it'd break some themes that depend on the order of buttons
<hyperair> if not done that way, i mean
<vish> hyperair: it was made configurable for a while
<vish> rather , since a while ago*
<hyperair> vish: oh so that was actually implemented. i thought just remained a suggestion.
<hyperair> s/thought just/thought it just/
<seb128> vish, I'm curious to know why you changed the order btw
<seb128> vish, did you try to get used to the new one?
<vish> seb128: yes, i did use both the positions/order and the close on the left was more of a problem for me , hence i sent the feedback > https://lists.launchpad.net/ayatana/msg01271.html
<vish> i end-up hitting the close instead of the file menu :s
<vish> i probably should slow down ;p
 * hyperair uses keyboards for menu navigation
<hyperair> er keyboard
<hyperair> alt+control character ftw.
<seb128> I never clicked on close instead of file there they don't seem that close to each other
<vish> seb128: i didnt think others had a problem until i saw popey 's tweet
<seb128> I'm not going to argue about whatever order is better anyway, I'm easy and got used to the new one
<seb128> it's just crazy that some people argue so much about such a detail
<popey> people clearly have nothing better to do :)
 * hyperair mumbles about how seb128 never finds any issue about any big UI change
<seb128> I think people just have jerk reaction to change
<hyperair> i think some people do
<seb128> jerk is probably not the word I was looking for there
<hyperair> knee-jerk
<seb128> right
<seb128> thanks ;-)
<vish> seb128: surely a lot of people do have the knee-jerk reaction ;)
<hyperair> but i believe my application indicator concerns are valid.
<seb128> they get used to some details
<hyperair> at the very least, when i first heard of the application indicators, i thought it was a good thing. a *very* good thing.
<popey> to be fair when i clicked the red x by accident it was first thing in the morning, not had coffee yet. still annoying :)
<hyperair> and then... tooltips disappeared.
<popey> and its the first time I've done it
<hyperair> and scrollwheel motions disappeared.
<hyperair> and application indicators in my eyes dropped all the way from positive to negative.
<seb128> do you really need those details? or did you get used to it
<vish> popey: surely, we aernt naive users , but even we make/made those mistakes ;p 
<seb128> I was using some but after a while I changed my workflow and I'm happy with indicators too
<hyperair> seb128: i use those details frequently, yes.
<seb128> right, but you use those because you need those?
<seb128> or just because you got used to mouseover some icons when bored and see your album cover this way or whatever
<hyperair> seb128: my use case was more like.. i have a lot of songs in my library that i don't want to listen to at the moment, so i move my mouse over the tray icon, let the tooltip appear, and then start scrolling until i find somethign i want to listen to.
<hyperair> seb128: or i suddenly hear something i haven't heard in a long time and want to check the artist/title/album of the song as i had forgotten.
<seb128> set a key to switch track on your keyboard if you don't have a multimedia keyboard
<seb128> and do next and read the notify-osd bubble until happy?
<seb128> that's what I mean by workflow changes
<seb128> you for sure have way to do most of the things you were doing
<seb128> you just decided your old way was the only handy one
<hyperair> seb128: point taken, for that particular use case. i can probably get used to that.
<seb128> if you really trying to find a new way rather than fight change you might find there is one as good
<hyperair> seb128: what about the other one i pointed out?
<hyperair> seb128: i still believe using the first item of the indicator menus as a non-triggerable, status display is an abuse of the menu.
<seb128> the artist title is in the menu
<seb128> it's one click further than the tooltip right
<seb128> but it's not end of the world
<seb128> well I don't want to spend the day arguing
<hyperair> seb128: that's it for textual tooltips. there's also seeking..
<seb128> you probably have valid concerns
<seb128> and some of those indicators need to become better next cycle
<seb128> but I think lot of the angry comments are knee-jerk reactions
<seb128> I think the bluetooth applet and the sound indicator are nice
<hyperair> "probably have valid concerns", concerns that other users probably have that they don't feel like voicing out because of the shutup-or-i'll-ignore-you attitude UX team has.
<seb128> the current indicators are probably a bit limited for the music player case
<vish> +1 for the music players
<hyperair> indeed.
<seb128> I still think the direction is good and that it will get there
<seb128> I don't think you need to know about middle click on scroolwhell actions to use icons
<seb128> but let's see what they come with next cycle ;-)
<hyperair> heh
<vish> -1 on hyperair's middle-click ;p
 * vish runs
 * hyperair throws tomatoes at vish 
<seb128> anyway enough chatting, let's get some work done ;-)
<hyperair> vish: well i suppose i shouldn't put so much effort into it considering i've got my own workarounds for the things i use most often (pidgin has ctrl+shift+g to activate the buddy list via dbus bound in compiz, banshee has... gnome-do to activate it, and so on)
<hyperair> ohoho sabdfl has considered it for UDS.
<hyperair> now if only i didn't have exams and could attend...
<thorwil> vish: i wonder if having a hover effect on menus would reduce the likelihood of the Close-instead-of-File error
<vish> thorwil: hmm , not sure how that solves the proximity issue , what can be done is add a bit of friction before the pointer moves past the menubar
<vish> there was such a method i noticed somewhere, need to find the link
<thorwil> vish: it should give a you a better feel for the target area, so you might be satisfied hitting it closer to the edge
<thorwil> vish: try http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/search;jsessionid=EF8A9A2EE03183E9E392C38AB9C208F0?q=steering+task&submit=Search&sort=rel
<vish> thorwil: maybe , but i dont think we can get something like that hover effect implemented :)
<thorwil> vish: "steering task" is just my suggestion for a search term, there might be a better one
<thorwil> vish: i consider it a defect of gtk that there is none on mneus
<thorwil> menus, even
<vish> thorwil: i like the hover effect though ;)  but had a tough time explaining in getting it implemented in software center categories,  i can only imagine it tougher for the menus..
<thorwil> it's pretty much a general must for making the interface feel more or most responsive
<godbyk> thorwil, vish: what you really need is haptic feedback. ;-)
<vish> godbyk: there is way to detect intent of the mouse movement , if the mouse is moving fast it will move past the threshold and if it is slowing moving towards the target it will stop at the constraint , i forgot what it is actually called and the link :/
<godbyk> vish: In the 90s, some Windows mouse drivers had a feature where you the mouse pointer was attracted to buttons.
<godbyk> The most often-used feature was to have the mouse pointer be centered over the default button when a new dialog appeared.
<vish> godbyk: that is there even now , something called "jump to default button" or likewise
<godbyk> The buttons had a certain gravity and higher 'viscosity'.  So the mouse pointer was attracted to them and would slow down as you dragged the mouse pointer across them.
<thorwil> godbyk: apparently it didn't catch on
<godbyk> thorwil: Not so much.  I think most of the people that tried it didn't really understand the reasoning behind it, so to them it was just getting in the way.
<mpt> jcastro!
<mpt> jcastro, I have a bad feeling about bug 497878
<ubot4`> Launchpad bug 497878 in ibus (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Support Application Indicators (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/497878
<mpt> jcastro, if the previous notification area item was showing the icon for the current input method, and the indicator menu does not (it just shows the keyboard icon all the time), that'll be a nasty regression
<mpt> I'm just heading into 9.10 to see if the notification area item worked that way, bbiab
<mpt> jcastro?
<MarkieMark1> Hi I'm looking at writing patches for indicator-applet, indicator-applet-session, I've managed to ./configure then make indicator-applet-session, well more precisely the project 'indicator-session' producing 2 binaries called 'indicator-session-service', 'gtk-logout-helper', no sign of the 'indicator-applet-session' found normally in /usr/lib after installation of the .deb? As for indicator-applet, neither autoconf nor automake seems to h
<MarkieMark1> ave had favorable results, is there a preliminary build command I need?
<djsiegel> DanRabbit1: seg|ars vish MDC1 popey rickspencer3 MacSlow: http://twitter.com/davidsiegel/status/12232246242
<djsiegel> please retweet!
<djsiegel> woohoo!
<MarkieMark1> in fact now looking at the result of apt-cache search indicator-applet it says indicator-applet-session is simply a clone of indicator-applet? So I really simply need to write a patch for indicator-applet to arrange the rotations
<MacSlow> djsiegel, that's wicked!
<MarkieMark1> vish I think you've looked at that already?
<MacSlow> djsiegel, done
<djsiegel> thanks!
<MacSlow> yw
<Nafai> tedg: Good point.
<vish> MarkieMark1: tedg or bratsche are the folks who can help with that one..
<MarkieMark1> it's not so much the coding that troubles me as how to build indicator-applet
<tedg> MarkieMark1: All of the indicator-applet-* are built from the same source package.
<tedg> MacSlow: You can grab the source: bzr branch lp:indicator-applet
<MarkieMark1> tedg, sounds right; I've already got the code
<tedg> Heh, MacSlow sorry.  I mean MarkieMark1
<MarkieMark1> I noticed :)
<MacSlow> tedg, oh...hehe... yeah... it's working :)
<MarkieMark1> no sign of a configure file though
<tedg> MarkieMark1: You need to run ./autogen.sh
<MarkieMark1> tedg that looks much better thanks :)
<Nafai> tedg: regarding your comment earlier, do I need to log out and back in or just restart indication-session?
<tedg> Nafai: You should just need to restart indicator-application-service -- but I'd recommend logging out and in because of the dbus activation stuff.
<Nafai> ok, thanks
<jcastro> mpt: sorry I was at lunch, looking now
<jcastro> hmm, so what does it do in 9.10?
<atrus> any reports of the indicator going kind of nuts and taking up cpu?
<qense> atrus: not that I'm aware of
<atrus> indicator-sound, gnome-panel, indicator-applet, all taking up about 100% cpu currently. wondering if there's anything i should try to look at/document before killing things.
<atrus> ah, it was freaking out about not being able to contact pulseaudio, because the network tunnel it needed was broken.
<MDC1> djsiegel ,haha, congrats!
<MDC1> oh.. he left :) congrats anyway :)
#ayatana 2010-04-16
<raof> Whoops!  Bug #547195 is an ABI-breaking change which has also broken the packaging.
<ubot4`> Launchpad bug 547195 in indicator-application (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Mono bindings of Indicator Application don't follow assembly versioning policy (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/547195
<hyperair> shit. i forgot to change indicator-application's .pc file after moving things around
<MarkieMark1> hi, is there a specific coding style that is necessary for I18n in menus / properties windows? I see all the gettext/.po business happening, is it 'automatic'?
<MarkieMark1> Hi tedg
<tedg> Good morning MarkieMark1
<MarkieMark1> so I'm thinking I need to double-check the I18n compatibility of the patch that now looks basically ready
<MarkieMark1> as I've added r-click menu item + properties window; is there a particular way to code that is gettext-compatible?
<tedg> MarkieMark1: Cool.  I don't understand why the preference dialog -- why would you want it horizontal in a vertical panel?
<MarkieMark1> I've seen people who make their vertical panels very wide - windows style
<tedg> MarkieMark1: You should be able to just make the strings like "_("bob")"  and they'll get picked up.
<MarkieMark1> particularly in a widescreen monitor
<tedg> Eh, but it's possible to get *very* big.  For instance my indicator-applet is 8 entries wide right now.
<MarkieMark1> I know, the icons look funny in ubuntu; apparently there's a way of managing that though too
<MarkieMark1> plus as there are calls for preferences generally, in a few parallel bug reports, it seemed appropriate to make a prefs window
<MarkieMark1> tailoring of the preferences according to the applet destination is more involved, although should be feasible
<MarkieMark1> add GtkNotebook tabs according to the applet type; indicator / indicator-session; calling functions in conditionally compiled .c source files
<tedg> MarkieMark1: People always ask for preference -- it's harder to say no and figure out what they really want than to code them :)
<MarkieMark1> :)
<MarkieMark1> well me I'm happy to put it to review to see whether the feeling is generally in favour of preferences
<MarkieMark1> that's a good reason for making my foray into preferences as limited as possible :)
<MarkieMark1> I definitely feel that the viewable applet as it is now is a necessary improvement for the Lucid desktop though
<MarkieMark1> I noticed particularly that Dylan is looking at no right-click menus at all in bug #519553
<ubot4`> Launchpad bug 519553 in indicator-applet (Ubuntu Lucid) (and 2 other projects) "Right click menu could confuse users, leading to accidental removal of panel applet (affects: 12) (heat: 56)" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/519553
<MarkieMark1> thankyou , ubot :D
<tedg> MarkieMark1: Yes, we really can't kill it without putting an annoying handle on it :-/
<hyperair> tedg: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/564506 <-- please take a look at this.
<ubot4`> Launchpad bug 564506 in indicator-application (Ubuntu) "libappindicator-cil-dev's .pc file points to the wrong place (affects: 3) (heat: 10)" [Critical,Confirmed]
<hyperair> tedg: seems i didn't fix enough things, and including the .pc file and now bce ftbfs
<tedg> hyperair: It seems directx's patch is a little odd...  the Replaces/Conflicts stuff?
<hyperair> tedg: that's because the package name was wrong to begin with.
<hyperair> tedg: it's to provide an upgrade path.
<hyperair> tedg: he's around, could you poke him on #ubuntu-motu/devel?
<hyperair> if you have any other issues, i mean.
<tedg> hyperair: Ah, okay, I thought it was conflicting with itself ;)
<tedg> I didn't realize the name change.
<hyperair> tedg: by the way, considering you're the main indicator-application maintainer, why don't you CC yourself to its bugs?
<tedg> hyperair: Hmm, I thought I did...
<hyperair> tedg: you aren't, which is why i needed to personally poke you about this issue and the previous.
<hyperair> at least, you're not in the list of people notified about the bug..
<qense> tedg: There was just a very strange report -- bug 564526 -- against Transmission. The problem of the reporter is that the toggle button of Transmission's visibility isn't updated when he uses the fallback icon (I presume it is the fallback icon) to show Transmission.
<ubot4`> Launchpad bug 564526 in transmission (Ubuntu) (and 2 other projects) "Toggle Transmission's display behave wrong (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/564526
<qense> Watch the vid: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/44407675/out.ogv
<tedg> qense: Can you see the panel in that video?
<qense> tedg: eys
<qense> yes
<qense> That's the only way I discovered he's having two icons.
<tedg> qense: Hmm, okay.  Let me try and download it.
<qense> ok
<qense> You can view it in Firefox.
<kklimonda> qense: it's not a fallback icon, it's a panel launcher
<qense> panel launcher?
<qense> Like Alltray?
<kklimonda> qense: no - it's the same as the firefox icon next to the menu
<qense> ah
<kklimonda> qense: just a shortcut
<qense> I'll write a patch to subscribe to the show and hide events for the main window.
<qense> tedg: problem found, I'll write a patch
<tedg> qense: Cool, thanks!
<qense> :)
<kklimonda> qense: what is your opinion on https://launchpad.net/bugs/564526 ? worth pushing through the Final Freeze?
<ubot4`> Launchpad bug 564526 in transmission (Ubuntu) (and 3 other projects) "Toggle state of 'toggle-main-window' not updated when window is shown after launch with running instance (affects: 2) (heat: 12)" [Low,Triaged]
<qense> kklimonda: It is a very trivial fix that won't affect much. But then again you could wonder if this tiny fix is worth the trouble of a feature freeze. Something that speaks in favour of trying to get this fix landed soon is that a lot of Transmission users run the application minimized to the tray and then they encounter a torrent file. iirc that triggers this bug as well.
<kklimonda> no, it doesn't..
<kklimonda> only Add dialog shows up
<qense> kklimonda: ok
<qense> in that case it's a very trivial fix for a reasonably trivial bug
<kklimonda> it would be stupid not to fix a trivial but visible bug..
<kklimonda> if we already have a trivial patch :)
<qense> agreed
<kklimonda> qense: hmm
<kklimonda> qense: the patch doesn't seem to work
<qense> no?
<kklimonda> qense: when I hide Transmission window and open it from the Applications menu the window shows up and hides immediately first time
<qense> ah
<qense> whoops
<qense> I should have tested the patch more thoroughly.
<Nafai> bratsche: (or any other gtk/gobject guru) is there a way in C to figure out what class an object was instantiated as, instead of just doing a lot of GTK_IS_MENU_ITEM and the like calls?
<bratsche> Yeah.. 
<bratsche> Nafai: I think it's G_TYPE_FROM_INSTANCE()
<Nafai> ah
<bratsche> Or G_OBJECT_TYPE_NAME() if you want it as a string.
 * Nafai looks
<Nafai> Yeah, that would work better
<Nafai> thanks!
<bratsche> Nafai: Sure, np
<keturn> hmm.  I'm not sure I get the rationale between the indicator-session indicator-complete thing
#ayatana 2010-04-17
<keturn> it seems like indicator-applet-session exists because you want indicator-session to display someplace different than the rest of the indicators
<keturn> which coincides with my feeling that indicator-session maybe isn't really an "indicator" at all.  what is it supposed to be indicating, exactly?
#ayatana 2010-04-18
<vish> qense: hi.. could you have a look at the branch linked to Bug 498182 , if it is good we could poke tedg bout it
<ubot4`> Launchpad bug 498182 in indicator-session (Ubuntu) (and 3 other projects) "Indicator-application does not support vertical panels (affects: 27) (dups: 4) (heat: 180)" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/498182
<qense> vish: I'll take a look!
<vish> qense: thanks
<hyperair> qense: Bug #556112
<ubot4`> Launchpad bug 556112 in couchdb-glib "Create DesktopcouchDocumentClass (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/556112
<hyperair> er shit
<hyperair> wrong bug
<hyperair> qense: Bug #566112
<ubot4`> Launchpad bug 566112 in banshee-community-extensions (Ubuntu) "Notify-OSD lags with AppIndicator (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/566112
<qense> hyperair: thanks, will look at it
<hyperair> qense: i remember an ancient similar bug
<hyperair> qense: it was fixed a long time ago in the notificationAreaicon
<qense> hyperair: ok, if necessary I'll try to find that bug
<qense> vish: Have you tested the diff yourself? I quickly looked over it and it looked alright, but I don't know whether it works.
<hyperair> qense: no wait, the problem seems to be different, although the symptoms are the same. 
<vish> qense: i havent checked if it works though
<qense> hyperair: Medium or Low, what would you say?
<qense> I'd go for Low
<hyperair> qense: i'd put medium.
<qense> ok
<hyperair> qense: reason being i can't press my media keys repeatedly until i can find a song i want to listen to at the moment.
<hyperair> qense: it would help to ask for dbus-monitor output, but i can't remember exactly what the syntax was like
<hyperair> the watch expression i mean
<qense> hyperair: I'll do it myself.
<hyperair> qense: oh you can reproduce it?
<qense> hyperair: I quickly tested the issue here and: yes
<hyperair> qense: cool, that'll speed things up, thanks.
<qense> hyperair: wasn't bug #562345 already solved by your first try to fix dependency issues for Banshee.AppIndicator?
<ubot4`> Launchpad bug 562345 in banshee-community-extensions (Ubuntu) "banshee-extension-appindicator should not depend on indicator-applet (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/562345
<qense> that is bug #560095
<ubot4`> Launchpad bug 560095 in indicator-application (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "packaging of libappindicator0-cil is in violation of the Debian CLI Policy, making ${cli:Depends} not work (affects: 6) (dups: 1)" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/560095
<qense> nope, it's not
<qense> hyperair: will it be solved by one of your next fixes for libappindicator0-cil?
<hyperair> qense: it's fixed, just not built yet.
<hyperair> qense: it won't be built until someone gets around to uploading indicator-application's fix
<qense> a shame
<hyperair> qense: yep.
<qense> hyperair: Would you be so kind to mark the bug as a duplicate?
<qense> I lost track of the different bug reports regarding this issue.
<qense> vish: Mind if I take a look at the patch later? I don't have much time now, really. I want to push a working, not-functional basic interface of Mergimus this evening so I can put that aside.
<vish> qense: sure ... ;)
<vish> qense: err , rather.. np.. ;p
<qense> vish: great!
#ayatana 2011-04-11
<hicham> xi patches won't make it upstream ?
<RAOF> hicham: What Xi patches?
<DBO> RAOF, i have a complaint
<DBO> seeing as your the person I complain to about x11 related crap
<RAOF> DBO: Complain away :)
<RAOF> I'd also like to complain that people don't make 13" laptops I want to buy.
<RAOF> Watch me: âPeople don't make 13" laptops that I want to buy!  Grrrr!â
<hicham> RAOF: the ones to XI2.h
<hicham> RAOF: found a link, thanks
<RAOF> hicham: Oh, you mean the multitouch patches?
<hicham> RAOF: yes
<RAOF> hicham: They're works-in-progress upstream.
<hicham> RAOF: thanks, I am trying to build unity on fedora
<hicham> so far so good
<RAOF> Yeah.  Both new shells use X protocol that's not upstream!
<hicham> now I think I am at the last step
<hicham> alls deps built
<Omega> I've mentioned overlay-scrollbar on firefox's mailing list
<Omega> and I'm talking to their ux team about it
<DBO> RAOF, so here is my complaint
<DBO> xcb deadlocks for no obvious reason
<Omega> Who is actually in the design team that is on IRC?
 * hicham liked overlay-scrollbars
<DBO> Omega, we have been sworn to secrecy to protect those responsible
<Omega> I must hunt them down, one by one, and talk to them calmly!
<RAOF> DBO: ISTR an xcb deadlock that should be fixed in the new libx11 upload.
<RAOF> DBO: You're not doing something strange, like using threads or anything? :P
<DBO> no threads
<DBO> but several connections in one process
<DBO> and if you fixed the xcb deadlock
<Omega> But it'd really help if they could get in touch with firefox's ux team, or me, I'm in contact with them a lot.
<DBO> I will gladly donate my ovaries
<DBO> (I keep them in a jar)
<RAOF> Are you doing anything explicity prohibited?  Like, say, calling any X function at all in an error handler?
<DBO> no
<DBO> its so weird
<DBO> like sometimes we'll get a situation where calling XGrabPointer just deadlocks in xcb_wait_for_reply
<DBO> but if we call XSync before then
<DBO> oh man
<DBO> it works
<DBO> WTF???
<RAOF> Funness!
<DBO> yeah
<DBO> having your window manager deadlock is AWESOME
<DBO> RAOF, do you have any info on the deadlock fix
<DBO> I would love to look
<Omega> solution: call XSync before every function
<DBO> sometimes that will fail though!
<DBO> its *retarded*
<DBO> xcb should be cast back to the hellish pit it came from
 * DBO pokes RAOF
 * RAOF is looking, and eating lunch.
<DBO> lunch?
<DBO> its 23:30 at night man
<DBO> why would you be eating lunch
<RAOF> Hm.  We've got the libx11 that the fix is in (1.4.2)
<RAOF> I come from the future, where it's 1:30pm
<DBO> no, all times are the same
<DBO> RAOF, yes but do you have more details?
 * Omega is in the same spacezone as DBO
<DBO> Omega, I subscribe to the flat earth theory, thus you are ALL in the same timezone
<DBO> I do however believe the (flat) earth revolves around the sun
<Omega> But you see, there is one thing you did not acocunt for, the sun revolves around me!
<Omega> account*
<DBO> Omega, blasphemy, I shall burn you ate the stake
<DBO> prepare to be cooked, witch
<Omega> hmmm, stake, delicious.
<RAOF> DBO: Oh.  The first was to drop the Display lock when calling the X error handler, the other was to ignore some locks
<DBO> RAOF, bug reports...
<DBO> or commit logs
<hicham> arghh, dbusmenu is missing from the repos
<RAOF> DBO: You're looking for http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/lib/libX11/commit/?id=fd85aca7a616c595fc17b2520f84316a11e8906f
<RAOF> Ahem.  Let's put that in the right channel, shall we?
<RAOF> DBO: Yeah, I didn't think you were using threads.  That was the fix that I was thinking of, though, which clearly isn't a fix for your problem (because otherwise you wouldn't *have* your problem âº)
<oSoMoN> good morning
<MacSlow> good morning
<coz_>  good day al;l
<Omega> http://openmatt.wordpress.com/2011/04/06/how-to-work-open/ Maybe we can learn a few things from our friends at Mozilla :)
<Martiini> unity for opensuse - When ??
<Martiini> anyone use Twitter ??
<andrejz> Hello! I have a usability suggestion for unity
<andrejz> When i go to applications dash 4 out of 5 recently used applications are also a part of my launcher on the left
<andrejz> I think it would be better if apps, which are permanently on the launcher, don't appear in most commonly used
<apw> bug #700757 is marked as 'fixed' but I see no change in behaviour with todays bits
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 700757 in unity (Ubuntu Natty) "unity aborts when you plug in an external monitor" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/700757
<apw> plug a small monitor (1024x768) into a bog standard netbook and blammo unity dumps core, spitting out "Size too big width=2304height=1024"
<jcastro> kamstrup: do you have the askubuntu place installed?
<apw> i would point out that the machine ought to be about as supported a platform as exits, being an intel netbook
<kamstrup> jcastro: I only think I have an olde copy lying around, but not running
<jcastro> kamstrup: I am starting to have some startup issues with lenses, but I'm not sure if it's the lens or unity
<kamstrup> jcastro: you mean speed wise or other?
<jcastro> the daemons run and everything, just nothing displays, I have to go back and restart each daemon, and then restart unity
<jcastro> so like when I log in at first
<kamstrup> oh, that sound sodd
<jcastro> my AU lens doesn't work
<jcastro> but apps and files does
<jcastro> FYI, ppa:askubuntu-tools/ppa
<jcastro> I don't think we're doing anything different than before
<kamstrup> jcastro: did this start happing with a recent upgrade?
<jcastro> last week sometime
<jcastro> I don't recall exactly when
<kamstrup> jcastro: right, the only thing that has changed recently, afaik, is that Unity will try and keep the apps place on the top spot in the dash
<jcastro> (which is great btw)
<kamstrup> so it sounds like maybe a race which' result depends on whether the disk cache is warm or cold..?
<jcastro> ok
<jcastro> I'll see if I can at least find someone who can reproduce it
<kamstrup> jcastro: kenvandine had a similar issue last week, but that was confined to a gwibber issue afair
<kenvandine> kamstrup, i fixed my memory issues
<kamstrup> kenvandine: zomg!?!?11one
<kenvandine> kamstrup, at least somewhat
<kenvandine> it wasn't Dee related... just python bloat
<kamstrup> kenvandine: so what was the issue?
<kenvandine> imports
<kamstrup> wow
<Saamm> how to fix this bug...I can't use firefox 4 in unity becoz of this --> Bug #751067
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 751067 in fglrx-installer (Ubuntu) "Colors are mangled in Natty" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/751067
<kenvandine> importing gwibber.microblog.utils
<kenvandine> apparently is huge
<kenvandine> kamstrup, well, that was the virt mem
<kenvandine> i shaved ~200M off virt
<kamstrup> kenvandine: right... should give a slight startup boost too I expect?
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> RSS was doing things multiple times
<kenvandine> which i still kind of have a problem with
<kenvandine> but i made it much better
<kamstrup> sweet
<kenvandine> RSS is now about 60M
<kenvandine> i have to stop watching the active property though
<kenvandine> i need to figure out how to make it refresh the data on both a section change and when it becomes active
<kamstrup> kenvandine: the "active" prop on Unity.PlaceEntryInfo?
<kenvandine> without it doing both
<kenvandine> yes
<kenvandine> i was updating the data when active became true
<kenvandine> but, if the section was also changing... it would update twice
<kenvandine> because i also do that on section change
<kamstrup> oh... I wonder if I do that too now you mention...
<kenvandine> it's a problem...
<kamstrup> yeah, there's something I don't like about the current protocol in this regard
<kenvandine> i couldn't find a good way around it :/
<kenvandine> jcastro, if the AU lense starting watching for the active property to change, that could cause some problems
<kamstrup> kenvandine: you only need to reload data on active=true if you are "dirty"
<kenvandine> jcastro, last i looked it didn't
<kenvandine> how can i tell if i am dirty?
<kenvandine> that didn't sound good :)
<kamstrup> kenvandine: lol
<kamstrup> kenvandine: I just tricked you into saying that
<kamstrup> ;-)
<kenvandine> indeed
<kenvandine> sneaky sneaky :)
<kamstrup> kenvandine: in the files place (or is it apps) I just have a bool that I keep around
<kenvandine> ugh
<kamstrup> yeah :-/
<kenvandine> i tried that
<kenvandine> wasn't very reliably
<kenvandine> the active and section change props seem to change irradically
<kenvandine> not always in the same order
<kamstrup> oh...
<kenvandine> i can't say that for certain
<kenvandine> but it sure seemed that way
<kenvandine> it was very annoying
<kamstrup> kenvandine: yeah - you should have seen the 10.10 series... I had some *very* defensive coding in there because Unity was spamming the places :-)
<kenvandine> kamstrup, unrelated question
<kenvandine> is there any way to sort the data in a model?
<kenvandine> or do i have to clear and populate it again?
<kamstrup> kenvandine: you have to clear and populate I am afraid
<kenvandine> ok
<kenvandine> would also be a nice feature :)
<kamstrup> kenvandine: yeah... sorting is a bit tricky for wire data like this
<kenvandine> yeah
<kamstrup> kenvandine: possibly we could use the Dee.Filter API to define some sort of sorting API
<kenvandine> it would be nice to change the order in the view side
<kenvandine> so perhaps apply a filter to the model on the client side
<kamstrup> kenvandine: dee already ships with a collating filter that sorts on a string column according to the locale rules
<kenvandine> ?
<kamstrup> kenvandine: exactly
<kamstrup> kenvandine: maybe dee could ship a set of "sorting rules" (implemented as DeeFilters) with canonical names and then you could remotely tell a DeeSharedModel which sorting it should apply or something
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> that might do it
<kenvandine> i want to be able to sort by time
<apw> what priority should bugs wherein unity core dumps be
<kamstrup> kenvandine: in DBus ala Sort(in u col_index, in s sort_name)
<kenvandine> kamstrup, common problem for gwibber, the time column will come from twitter, facebook, etc... but will be appended as the results come from each service
<kamstrup> apw: depends on how user visible it is
<apw> happens when you plug in an external monitor on intel atom netbooks
<apw> should make UDS fun
<kamstrup> kenvandine: right, that works well if you put each sub-resultset in a group, but if you put them under the same group you currently have to collect all results on the daemon side, sort them, and then add them
<kamstrup> apw: hehe, have you checked for dupes? I think I recal a report ala what you mention... then again, maybe my mind is just still in weekend mode :-)
<apw> kamstrup, yep, that was mine, which was closed fix released :/  but its still there exatly the same
<apw> starting to think the unity team needs to test h/w which isn't apple
<apw> perhaps we can get somthing really cheap for yas
<kamstrup> apw: lol, I knew I saw it somewhere :-D only few use apple products for hacking on dx
<apw> :)
<apw> but i think if we get to UDS an noones netbooks will let a projector plug in ... we are going to get a slapping!
<kamstrup> apw: but if you still see it, just reopen and state the case. There are quite a few DXers with multimonitor setups so rest assuered it's a priority :-) It's just that there are *many* priorities right now :-)
<apw> heh of that i am very sure :)
<kamstrup> apw: hehe, if it comes down to that on UDS I am pretty sure someone will sit down and write the patch on the spot :-)
<kenvandine> kamstrup, the biggest problem i have with reordering the data in the daemon and adding it again is all the row-added signals... lots of spam and then the client gets lots of churn
<kamstrup> kenvandine: as long as you do the workout without entering the mainloop dee will batch all the transformations into one Commit() on the bus
<kamstrup> kenvandine:  so the row-added signals is only a local thing in each process
<kenvandine> ok
<kenvandine> not so bad i guess
<kenvandine> still a whole new set of data
<kamstrup> yes :-/
<kenvandine> ok
<kenvandine> is this something that could happen for oneiric?
<kamstrup> kenvandine: ok, I am adding this to my list of things in the Unity API we need to fix
<kenvandine> or should i not get my hopes up?
<kamstrup> kenvandine: oh wait...
<kamstrup> kenvandine: why can't you just do a sorted model.insert()?
<kenvandine> on the daemon side?
<kamstrup> kenvandine: yes
<kenvandine> i'd have to get the iter to insert after right?
 * kenvandine hadn't even seen the insert api... just prepend/append
<kamstrup> kenvandine: that is most efficient I guess, but you can also insert by offset
 * kenvandine doesn't like offsets
<kenvandine> i also haven't looked at how you do lookups
<kamstrup> kenvandine: you can either just traverse the row iters until you find what you need, or you can use Dee.FilterModels or Dee.Indexes
<kamstrup> depends a bit what you need
<kenvandine> kamstrup, guess i'll have to play around... that could be tricky if i want to insert it in the right place based on timestamp
<kenvandine> or ticks
<kenvandine> iterate over them all until it is no long <
<kenvandine> then insert after -1
<kenvandine> i guess
<kamstrup> kenvandine: yeah
<kenvandine> kamstrup, should that be fast?
<kamstrup> kenvandine: well, fairly fast, but you're still doing linear inserts of course, but not too bad unless your models grow very big
<kenvandine> define "very"
<kenvandine> ?
<kenvandine> 100s of thousands of rows?
<kenvandine> or millions?
<kamstrup> kenvandine: i guess "very" depends on target hardware and your latency and cpu time restrictions
<kamstrup> kenvandine: but a good guess would be below 500 don't worry
<kenvandine> it'll always be over that
<kamstrup> and then 500 < N < 5k, test it
<kamstrup> and then > 5k worry
<kamstrup> kenvandine: it was a long standing plan that one could use Dee.Index for this, but I just never got around to it this cycle
<kenvandine> understand
<lamalex> om26er, cdbs good day
<om26er> lamalex, hey there.
<cdbs> lamalex: Howdy! good morning
<lamalex> om26er, cdbs can either of you get this to happen? https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/749940
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 749940 in unity (Ubuntu) "Unity application launcher does not hide when firefox is full screen and desktop is switched" [Low,New]
 * cdbs checksz
<om26er> lamalex, dodge active window is not the default option btw, so could be specific to it only
<om26er> as the reporter is using it
<lamalex> yeah i know i changed my hide behavior
<cdbs> lamalex: I managed to reproduce it
<cdbs> lamalex: though in a slightly different way
 * cdbs comments
<lamalex> cdbs, and that is..?
<cdbs> lamalex: see my comment, can you reproduce that way?
<apw> does anyone know if there is any way to ask banshee to exit once it is started from the indicator menu ?
<lamalex> cdbs, got it
<lamalex> thanks
<lamalex> apw, i think mpt just filed a bug on that
<apw> and banshee is the default now right, i can remove rhythm box ?
<cdbs> apw: yes you can
<Daekdroom> You could remove banshee too if you don't  like it.
<cdbs> Oh, is that a list of upgrades? :(
 * cdbs 'll have to wait for Unity to upgrade before he could get down to bugs
<kenvandine> sladen, is the scrollbar supposed to look different in gnome-terminal now?
<kenvandine> sladen, the changelog says add dark theming to tweak around resize grip
<Daekdroom> kenvandine, it's black now
<kenvandine> but it seems pretty weird to make it look different than everything else
<apw> when _does_ the day in the date time widget get updated?  it seem to stay as the day it was when i suspended until about midday and then change
<Daekdroom> It doesn't, because the whole gnome-terminal is black & purple, except for the white-silver scrollbar.
<Daekdroom> But I wish they used black instead of silver in quite a few other apps, like they were testing in maverick
<sladen> kenvandine: I asked Cimi about this;  it's something to do with the Gtk+ patch not picking it up because it's not a GtkScrolledWindow
<sladen> kenvandine: and not actually related to the theme AFAIK
<kenvandine> humm, weird that it just changed in today's upload
<lamalex> JohnLea, know if this was fixed? https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/750471
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 750471 in unity (Ubuntu) "Ensure Unity prioritises icon loading from Unity-icon-theme" [Undecided,New]
<om26er> smspillaz|z, what exactly do you mean by 'terminal output' ?
<apw> gawd, has anyone tried actually moving windows from one monitor to another in unity?  half the time it complely mangles the window
<coz_> apw,  I did when I had it i nstalled on this system with dual monitors
<coz_> apw,   I have nvidia
<coz_> apw,   it worked fine
<coz_> apw,  although I have it installed on single monitor system now
<apw> hmmm, not very well on intel graphics
<cdbs> lamalex: Please reopen the Unity bug task and set it to Triaged in bug #726033 .
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 726033 in unity (Ubuntu) "does not display icons until hovered" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/726033
<coz_> apw,  ah I am not up on intel issues ,, although I did hear there was a bug that popped up erors every 10 seconds about the cpu temp even though it wasnt hot  and that's all I know about it
<lamalex> cdbs, done
<cdbs> lamalex: thanks
<apw> coz_, ok i can reproduce the same kind of 'wipping' behaviour by grabbing the title bar of a window and ramming it onto the title bar ... then sliding left and right, the window decorations dissappear and the window gets erased at the edges
<hicham> any unity devs in here ?
<coz_> apw,  yikes,, that sounds painful to visualize
<coz_> hicham,  I believe this is the place,,, not sure who is actually at their systems however
<hicham> coz_ : I am just trying to figure out how to override some default stuff when building/installing
<apw> coz_, yeah grab a non-full screen window and slide up till you hit the top of the screen; as the cursor enters the menu bar the decorations go and then slide left and right (all holding the click) and you'll lose the edges of the window
<coz_> hicham,   I would stick around here and also log onto  #ubuntu+1
<apw> normal service is restored when the cursor exits the global menu panel
<coz_> apw,  wait ,, moving a window to the sides  or center or bottom edge might be kicking in the windows like thing where they maximize in a certain way
<apw> coz_, yeah the action would trigger maximise when i let go, but as i haven't done that, but during the time the cursor is in the menu bar the main window is not updated correctly
<hicham> coz_: thanks
<coz_> apw,  ooo  mm you may want to speak with smspillaz|z   about this then
 * apw files a bug
<apw> bug #757714
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 757714 in unity (Ubuntu) "when moving a window and the cursor enters the global menu the window is no longer updated correctly" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/757714
<apw> i assume we know that none of libre office is using the global menubar ?
<Daekdroom> apw, there's a package available.
<Daekdroom> But not default yet because of bugs.
<apw> ok will ignore that
<apw> does anyone know if we expect the main text window in xchat to not get the new menubar
<Daekdroom> menubar? the menubar is showing up in the panel in here, as expected.
<Daekdroom> If you're talking about the scrollbar, it isn't working in a lot of places.
<apw> i maent scrollbar, doh
<apw> ok#
<om26er> lamalex, Hey! I have not done triage today, been helping Sam debug the invisible window thingy. Still on.
<pasjr> I need a Unity Expert
<DBO> tremolux, you here?
<pasjr> ??
<tremolux> DBO: yep, heya, what's up?
<DBO> sure
<DBO> whats up pasjr
<DBO> tremolux, sorry I meant to ping someone whose not here and you got tab completed
<DBO> my mistake
<tremolux> ah, no problemo  :)
<pasjr> I have always been good a tweaking Ubuntu, but I can not find the file to change the colors for the launcher bar in 11.04 can you help?
<DBO> you cant change the launcher bar colors without recompiling pasjr
<DBO> its hardcoded
<pasjr> I understand that but there is a file with that info is there not?
<Daekdroom> afaik, the color is picked up from the icon itself
<kenvandine> kamstrup, clearing the model in python isn't freeing memory
<pasjr> ???
<DBO> pasjr, sorry
<DBO> pasjr, the colors for the launcher background are in Launcher.cpp
<pasjr> Thanks
<DBO> launcher icon colors are determined in LauncherIcon.cpp
<pasjr> Any clue what folder that file is in?  My system cant find it.
<lamalex> om26er, cdbs when you guys triage autohide bugs, could you tag them with autohide?
<om26er> ai ai sir
<lamalex> thanks
<lamalex> i've got a hunch that autohide is one of our buggiest areas
<lamalex> want to see how many autohide related bugs are just in the new queue
<lamalex> cdbs, are you triaging?
<om26er> lamalex, seems like a problem with qt drag n drop has rose
<om26er> launcher does not hide after that
<zniavre> good evening
<zniavre> after an update (few mns ago) the launcher looks empty but it is still working icons are not visible >  http://i.imgur.com/AHsPn.png < i hope this is already known
<kamstrup> kenvandine: I just plugged a pretty hefty leak in Dee, https://code.launchpad.net/~kamstrup/dee/commit-transaction-leaks/+merge/57219, but I don't think that's what you are seeing since this one was only on the receiving end...
<kenvandine> i can check though
<bcurtiswx> if i remove the home icon on the launcher, how do I get it back?
<kenvandine> kamstrup, basically everytime i do a clear and append the memory usage grows
<kenvandine> kamstrup, and it never goes down
<bcurtiswx> append come after clear normally? i'd think you'd start fresh after a clear?
<kamstrup> kenvandine:  the most likely problem is that pygi somehow keeps a ref around on the gvariants stored in the row
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, basically empty all the data then append
<kamstrup> kenvandine: as this is definitely not something we see in C. I just did a ~30min torture run adding 1000 rows and calling clear() each second
<kamstrup> no leaks at all
<kenvandine> kamstrup, ok
 * kamstrup gotta run
<bcurtiswx> so my original question, if i remove the home icon from launcher, how do I go about getting that back ?
<zniavre> bcurtiswx,  maybe via dconf-editor ?
<nhaines> If I wanted to try to fix bug 740515, where should I start looking?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 740515 in unity (Ubuntu) "Window controls in Unity panel do not extend to top of display" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/740515
<bcurtiswx> hmm, i don't have dconf-editor nor dconf
<zniavre> install dconf-tools
<htorque> bcurtiswx, you can either reset the launcher favorite list using 'unity --reset-icons' or use dconf-editor to add 'user-home.desktop' to the favorite list (desktop â unity â launcher â favorites)
<bcurtiswx> htorque,  zniavre much thanks :)
<htorque> both suboptimal solutions imo
<htorque> yw :-)
<zniavre> htorque, good evening do yu ahv any idea about my worrie > http://i.imgur.com/AHsPn.png < icons are missing in the launcher
<kenvandine> jcastro, the au lens also seems to suffer from the same leak
<zniavre> you hav *
<kenvandine> but on a much lower scale
<kenvandine> smaller data set
<kenvandine> no clue how to track down memory leaks in GI
<htorque_> bcurtiswx: sorry, the .desktop file is nautilus-home.desktop (user-home is the icon :))
<jcastro> kenvandine: I can't even get my lens to run on login
<jcastro> only when I run it by hand
<kenvandine> really?
<kenvandine> weird
<kenvandine> working here
<jcastro> kenvandine: with the ppa and everything up to date?
<hicham> no luck with unity
<hicham> everything is built but when enabling unity from ccsm it crashes
<hicham> any debugging hints ?
<kenvandine> jcastro, yes
<kenvandine> well
<kenvandine> i was running an old version actually
<kenvandine> i just updated it and killed the daemon
<kenvandine> unity restarted it automatically
<hicham> which daemon ?
<jcastro> ok
<jcastro> next time you login fresh
<jcastro> try the lens
<jcastro> and tell me if it loads
<kenvandine> hicham, the askubuntu lens
<kenvandine> jcastro, i'll try in a moment
<jcastro> kenvandine: it's been killing me all week, lmk if you find anything
<kenvandine> jcastro, reproduced
<kenvandine> i had the same problem in gwibber
<kenvandine> let me try to fix this for you :)
<jcastro> oooh
<jcastro> I hope you have a fix. :)
<kenvandine> i fixed it a couple weeks again in the gwibber lens
 * hicham was hoping for some debugging help :(
<didrocks> hicham: there is a bug we know about, it's very demanding for fixes all the over the place, we'll try to tackle it for next release
<nhaines> jcastro: you should help me champion bug 740515.  :)
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 740515 in unity (Ubuntu) "Window controls in Unity panel do not extend to top of display" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/740515
<jcastro> whoa, never noticed that before
<jcastro> nice catch!
<nhaines> yay
<nhaines> jcastro: it's slowly been driving me crazy.  :)
<zniavre> bug 757990
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 757990 in unity (Ubuntu) "missing but working icons in unity-launcher" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/757990
<jcastro> kenvandine: any luck?
<kenvandine> not yet
<kenvandine> looking through my commits, it looks like my fix was to make initiallizing the gwibber connection handle errors
<kenvandine> i guess the problem was the daemon didn't start quick enough
<kenvandine> in the case of failures
<kenvandine> i don't see where that would be a problem for AU though
<lamalex> cdbs, seriously- when you touch bugs you need to update their statuses
<lamalex> when you touch a bug, get it out of the new queue
<didrocks> lamalex: btw, there are a lot of people answering when you set a bug to incomplete and they are starting expiring
<lamalex> ugh i think my bugmail is screwed again
<lamalex> thanks didrocks
<didrocks> yw :)
<Daekdroom> Huh oh.
<Daekdroom> When starting unity from tty, appmenu doesn't work
<Daekdroom> I can only make it work when starting it within X.
<LLStarks> didrocks, that bamf bug may not have been squashed. still getting bamf crashes and duplicated launcher icons.
<didrocks> LLStarks: the duplicated icons aren't fixed. bamf crash is interesting to know if it's with the latest version
<jcastro> seiflotfy: around?
<jcastro> seiflotfy: this guy on the ayatana list came up with the best name ever for the "people place"
<jcastro> "contact lens" hahaha
<nhaines> hahaha
<lamalex> hah
<lamalex> what a zinger
<LLStarks> didrocks, aren't the two issues related. everything seems fine until the first bamf crash.
<didrocks> LLStarks: no, the duplicated issue is because bamf is restarted
<LLStarks> ah.
<didrocks> that happens even if you kill the daemon
<didrocks> the first crash has to be confirmed with the latest update (today's)
<LLStarks> i have.
<LLStarks> still not sure what prompts the crash.
<LLStarks> maybe i should write a snippit that instructs unity not to panic if bamfdaemon crashes or is killed.
<LLStarks> the icon duplication is exponential with each crash
<didrocks> LLStarks: did you report the crash with apport?
<didrocks> LLStarks: yeah, as I told, everytime bamf crashes we have issues reconnecting the dots, but it's not linked to the crash
<LLStarks> lemme restart and magic up a crash for apport.
<LLStarks> should i collect to an existing bug or make a new one?
<didrocks> LLStarks: just subscribe me to it (if you really restart unity since the update already to ensure you have libbamf) :)
<hicham> is it is necessary to have bamf-daemon ?
<didrocks> hicham: it's what matches the apps in your system
<hicham> didrocks: unity can't run without it ?
<didrocks> hicham: yeah, you will have no match. why do you want to run without it?
<kenvandine> jcastro, well unity is complainging that the SectionsModel isn't a Dee Model
<kenvandine> s/complainging/complaining
<kenvandine> :)
<soreau> didrocks: Have you actually done any rocks before? Or didroaches just sounded too bad
<didrocks> soreau: "didier roche" seems hard to pronounce for english people, hence the nickname :)
<soreau> Damn english people don't even know how to use their own language
<soreau> didrocks: I've always wanted to know, now I shall wonder no longer ;)
<didrocks> soreau: heh! :-)
<lamalex> soreau, i don't think any english person's own language is french :P
<soreau> meh, you missed it
<lamalex> too many rocks i guess
<soreau> xD
<hicham> didrocks: I am just trying to figure out what is missing
<didrocks> hicham: hum, missing for what? can you explain?
<soreau> hicham: probably ubuntu :P
<hicham> didrocks: I just built unity on fedora, but it crashes compiz whenever I try to enable it from ccsm
<hicham> soreau: :)
<LLStarks> is there any quick and easy way to make bamfdaemon crash>
<LLStarks> btw, digging the new left-side launcher behavior
<ion> killall -SEGV bamfdaemon
<didrocks> hicham: it shouldn't crash though, but enabling/disabling is an issue we are aware of
<soreau> hicham: Did you try enabling crahhandler to get a backtrace (after installing debug symbols)?
<hicham> didrocks: how should it be started ?
<hicham> soreau: I am rebuilding the plugins
<didrocks> hicham: it's dbus activated
<hicham> so compiz-plugins-extra is required for unity to run ?
<didrocks> hicham: no, we even don't install it by default in ubuntu
<cyphermox> sladen, ping?
<hicham> didrocks: I am following the INSTALL file in unity tarball
<didrocks> hicham: hum, it should be updated then, not sure who putted it there :)
<didrocks> hicham: but extra isn't needed
<didrocks> hicham: http://askubuntu.com/questions/28470/how-do-i-build-unity-from-source/28472#28472
<hicham> didrocks: I already built it :)
<didrocks> hicham: this is just nux/unity, but you can see the build-dep
<sladen> cyphermox: ?
<hicham> didrocks: I built the whole dep chain
<hicham> didrocks: took me two days
<didrocks> hicham: oh already? nice! :-)
<hicham> didrocks: but it is crashing :(
<didrocks> hicham: on ccsm enabling/disabling or once started, it's ok?
<sladen> cyphermox: pong
<hicham> didrocks: I enable it from ccsm
<hicham> didrocks: is there any other way ?
<cyphermox> sladen, the icons in ubuntu-mono status/16 seems to be scaled differently than 16x16, this has gdk_pixbuf_composite fail here for nm-applet
<didrocks> hicham: well, we use a dedicate profile, in ubuntu, but it's basically the same
<didrocks> hicham: if you enable it, it should be ok. It's when you disable it that it can crash
<cyphermox> sladen, that's specifically the nm-signal* icons
<hicham> didrocks: it crashes when I enable it
<didrocks> hicham: do you have our compiz patches?
<hicham> didrocks: I have latest compiz-git, which I believe have the necessary fixes
<didrocks> hicham: yeah, it should
<hicham> didrocks: or it isn't ?
<didrocks> hicham: no, 0.9.4 has the glibmm branch we needed
<didrocks> hicham: report a stacktrace with debug symbols then :(
<sladen> cyphermox: -> http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-mono/+filebug  before it gets lots
<sladen> cyphermox: -> http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-mono/+filebug  before it gets lost
<hicham> didrocks: via crashhandler plugin ?
<didrocks> hicham: no, just run compiz on a tty under gdb
<sladen> cyphermox: (first report I've had so don't think there's a dup yet to point you to)
<cyphermox> sladen, yes, no problem
<cyphermox> precisely, this is related to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager-applet/+bug/753442
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 753442 in network-manager-applet (Ubuntu) "GdkPixbuf-CRITICAL errors in .xsession-errors" [High,In progress]
<cyphermox> sladen, bug 758116
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 758116 in ubuntu-mono (Ubuntu) "nm-signal icons from status/16 scaled to bigger than 16x16" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/758116
<sladen> cyphermox: is that as a result of the composition script, or is NM doing the overlaying?
<hicham> didrocks: do I have to run compiz from another console than the one I am using ?
<cyphermox> sladen, no, NM also does compositing in its non-indicator form
<didrocks> hicham: if you want to run it under gdb, right, as the crash will freeze the screen :)
<hicham> didrocks: how ?
<hicham> didrocks: do I need to export the display then run it ?
<didrocks> hicham: yeah
<didrocks> hicham: export DISPLAY=:0
<didrocks> gdb compiz
<didrocks> run --replace
<didrocks> in a tty
<hicham> didrocks: it crashes in utouch-geis
<hicham> didrocks: http://fpaste.org/EVYL/
<didrocks> hicham: can you check if it's already reported and if not, report that to them?
<hicham> didrocks: against utouch-geis ?
<didrocks> hicham: yes :)
<hicham> didrocks: ok, thanks
<didrocks> hicham: thanks to you :)
<hicham> didrocks: it is kinda depressing to spend two days packaging deps ( 7 ), plus unity's package which makes it 8, and end up on a crash :(
<didrocks> hicham: well, you can deactive the unitymtgrabhandles plugin, it should avoid crashing on geis I think
<didrocks> hicham: but better to check, it works fine on ubuntu, check the geis and grail version we have in natty
<hicham> didrocks: unitymtgrabhandles isn't selected in ccsm
<didrocks> hicham: ok, so it's the plugin adapater selecting it, but my remark on geis/grail still stands :)
<hicham> didrocks: I have the same version as in natty
<hicham> didrocks: 2.0.10
<didrocks> hicham: I'm not following the geis/grail development closely, better to go to #ubuntu-touch I think
<hicham> didrocks: and same version of utouch-grail, 1.0.20
<hicham> didrocks: thanks for pointing me to the right channel
<didrocks> hicham: yw :)
<Daekdroom> ??static discharge
<Daekdroom> Wrong channel :o
#ayatana 2011-04-12
<hicham> lets use geistest and see ...
<joh> Hi, are there any API reference docs for Unity Lenses? Something more detailed than https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/Lenses
<nhaines> sladen: I'm curious, maybe you know... why were gnome-terminal's scrollbars turned dark in the last light-themes release in Ambience?
<nhaines> sladen: also, curious about the status of Ubuntu Monospace font these days.
<nhaines> Just a friendly ping.  :)
<davidcalle> When my lens is launched at startup, it crashes on utf8 strings. When it's launched during a session it doesn't.
 * davidcalle is scratching is head.
<joh> davidcalle: Do you have some experience with lens development? :)
<davidcalle> joh, I'm developing the Books one.
<joh> davidcalle: Ah cool, then maybe you can help me..?
<joh> davidcalle: I'm writing a Tomboy lens
<davidcalle> joh, sure!
<joh> davidcalle: And in order to display a note when clicked in the lens, I need to perform a DBus method call.
<joh> davidcalle: However, from the examples I've found, it seems the lens entries can only point to valid URIs?
<joh> davidcalle: I.e. they cannot be used to perform arbitrary actions...
<davidcalle> joh, have you looked at kenvandine's code (gwibber lens) ?
<joh> davidcalle: Just briefly... I'll look again :)
<davidcalle> joh, you should talk to him about that, as I won't be able to help you with dbus calls. ;) Also, you should try to ping njpatel about what a lens can call.
<joh> davidcalle: Well, I know how to make the dbus calls, I just don't know how to glue it together with the unity lens.
<joh> davidcalle: ok thanks :
<joh> *:)
<davidcalle> joh, good luck with your lens. Is the code somewhere? :)
<joh> davidcalle: Thanks, the code isn't up yet, but will be on bzr once I get it working :)
<joh> *on launchpad
<davidcalle> joh, ok, good luck then :)
<zniavre> good evening i just unistalled-reinstalled unity but still no icons inside the launcher what can i do please?
<joh> Meh, I can't get the gwibber lens to work :P
<hicham> oh, nice, unity kinda works
<nhaines> hicham: congrats.  :D
<hicham> nhaines: thanks :)
<hicham> nhaines: http://img33.imageshack.us/i/screenshot1yl.png/
<nhaines> Looking good.  :)
<hicham> is gnome-panel supposed to be launched in unity ?
<nhaines> hicham: no, it uses unity-panel-service instad.
<nhaines> instead.
<hicham> nhaines: did you see the screenshot ?
<nhaines> hicham: yes I did
<hicham> adamw: how do you start unity in ubuntu ?
<hicham> oops
<nhaines> hicham: it's just sort of automatic.  :)
<hicham> nhaines: do you have a custom session for it ?
<spikeb> yes
<hicham> spikeb: what is the package for it ?
<spikeb> i have no idea, honestly.
<hicham> spikeb: what do you have in /usr/share/gnome-session/sessions ?
<spikeb> i have an ubuntu.session (that'd be the unity session)
<nhaines> hicham: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/592891/
<hicham> nhaines: thanks a lot
<hicham> how I am supposed to log out of unity ?
<nhaines> hicham: you're not supposed to, like any other window manager, I think.  :)
<nhaines> Oh!  no, sorry, I understand.  There's an application indicator applet that lets you log out.
<hicham> nhaines: what is its name ?
<nhaines> hicham: I don't know... I can never remember.  :(
<jcastro> kenvandine: any luck with the lens?
<nhaines> SysRq-K will kill the X server.
<zniavre> indicator-session?
<jcastro> joh: http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/
<jcastro> joh: ^^ should be there
<hicham> zniavre: thanks
<coz_>  hey
<LLStarks> i'd like a second opinion on evince not being user accesable as a design decision.
<LLStarks> bug 743383
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 743383 in unity (Ubuntu) "Dash does not recognize entries like "Evince" or "Document Viewer"" [Undecided,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/743383
<joh> jcastro: great, thanks
<MaximLevitsky> Unity is usable?
<MaximLevitsky> I sure assume it is
<MaximLevitsky> I open a vdesktop with my homework
<MaximLevitsky> I open a browser
<MaximLevitsky> couple of PFS
<MaximLevitsky> PDFs
<MaximLevitsky> text editor
<MaximLevitsky> Now I want to rest a bit, so I switch desktop, and try to open firefox
<MaximLevitsky> And guess what I get
<MaximLevitsky> That is usable?
<MaximLevitsky> When to see cube and unity?
<hicham> I have unity and the cube
<MaximLevitsky> how?
<hicham> enable it from ccsm
<MaximLevitsky> unity depends on desktop wall
<MaximLevitsky> in 11.04 of course
<ion> What *did* you get?
<MaximLevitsky> If I enable cube, it first tell me to disable wall
<MaximLevitsky> I answer yes
<MaximLevitsky> It tells me that unity depeands on wall and asks me to disable it
<didrocks> good morning
<oSoMoN> good morning
<MacSlow> greetings everybody
<zniavre> good morning
<zniavre> im still stuck with my missing icons inside the launcher i hav re-installed all nux-unity related package im wondering what i did wrong ?
<magcius> gah, what's happening
<magcius> my recent experience:
<magcius> all windows freeze
<magcius> alt+f2, "pkill notify-osd"
<magcius> magically, all windows start to work again
<magcius> is there something weird where when you can't ACK dbus message, gtk+ freezes or something?
<RAOF> No.  There *is* a weird bug where one of compiz's X connections sits around waiting for input that never comes, though.
<aquarius__> hey didrocks
<didrocks> RAOF: auquarius is just stuck in that case
<didrocks> wb aquarius__
<didrocks> RAOF: needs someone for testing/hammering his system? :)
<aquarius__> RAOF: I have X (or compiz, or something, I don't know) wedged, so if there's anything you want me to try running, commands to do, logs to provide, I am happy to do so.
<RAOF> aquarius__: If you attach gdb to compiz, is it waiting in poll()?  If so, yeah, I know *about* that problem (but not what's causing it, precisely where it is, or how to fix it).
<aquarius__> you'll have to tell me how to do that
<RAOF> sudo gdb compiz $(pgrep compiz); bt
<aquarius__> (njpatel's told me before, but I don't have easy access to previous conversations in this VC :))
<RAOF> You need to wait for gdb to come up for the bt command to do anything interesting.
<RAOF> But the *problem* is (likely to be) that compiz is sitting, waiting, for X to reply to it's request.  And the server doesn't.
<aquarius__> top of the compiz backtrace is __kernel_vsyscall, and the second line is __poll, and then third is ?? in libxcb
<aquarius__> is that what you meant?
<RAOF> Yeah.
<RAOF> That's what I meant.
<aquarius__> ok. If there's any other information I can provide to you, having a system *in* this wedged state, I'm happy to... but it sounds like you already have all the info you need?
<RAOF> Yeah, I think so.  And I can reproduce at least one version of that hang at will.
<aquarius__> interestingly, when I've had this before, killing compiz and then restarting it (or starting metacity with --replace from a VC) doesn't seem to recover; normally what happens is that X quits and I have to log in again
<RAOF> *That's* probably an X bug to do with closing down clients.
<aquarius__> Is there any way to work around it? Today, I don't mind -- I've only just turned my machine on (well, resumed from suspend). But other days I have work in windows that I don't really want to lose, and then end up losing them.
<aquarius__> so today I can just service gdm restart and be fine
<RAOF> Attaching gdb to Xorg and acquiring a backtrace for *that* would be quite useful :)
<aquarius__> right now?
<aquarius__> that is, while still wedged?
<RAOF> Yeah, if killing compiz is going to cause it.
<aquarius__> OK. how do I quit the gdb I have looking at compiz without killing compiz?
<RAOF> Just type  âquitâ; gdb won't kill compiz.
<aquarius__> oh, I can't read. It says it'll detach from the inferior process, not kill it :)
<RAOF> :)
<aquarius__> ok, so I should gdb into the /usr/bin/X process?
<RAOF> Yeah.
<RAOF> First could you install some debugging symbols?
<RAOF> xserver-xorg-core-dbg is the most important package.
<aquarius__> ah
<RAOF> Then xserver-xorg-video-$YOUR_CARD-dbg
<RAOF> But that's not as critical.
<aquarius__> ah. I do not have the latest version of xserver-xorg-core
<aquarius__> damn.
<RAOF> Ah.
<aquarius__> so I can't install -core-debug without upgrading -core, which means that a gdb backtrace won't be useful, correct?
<RAOF> What version do you have?  I'll rustle up a link for you.
<RAOF> aquarius__: Correct.  You need to have the -core-dbg version that corresponds to whatever is about to hang now :)
<aquarius__> 2:1-10.0-0ubuntu3
<aquarius__> and it's about to install 2:1-10.0.902-1ubuntu1
<aquarius__> I only upgraded everything about a week ago! There have been nine hundred versions of X since? :)
<RAOF> That's just one version out of date; the new one was uploaded yesterday.
<aquarius__> :)
<RAOF> Oh - what arch do you need?
<aquarius__> uname -p says i686
<davidcalle> kamstrup, hello. What can make a Lens do this: when it's launched at startup, it crashes on utf-8 strings ("ascii codec can't encode..."), but when it's launched during a session, it handles them well.
<RAOF> aquarius__: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/67866223/xserver-xorg-core-dbg_1.10.0-0ubuntu3_i386.deb
<aquarius__> (oh, and syndaemon is eating 100% CPU as well, again. Is that likely to be related?)
<RAOF> aquarius__: I don't think so.
<RAOF> Although it might make the deadlock more likely to happen.
<aquarius__> ok. I'm happy to provide information about syndaemon as well if that's useful?
<RAOF> Not for me, although the ubuntuone guys might be interested :)
<aquarius__> ahem!
<aquarius__> syndaemon. Not syncdaemon.
<RAOF> Oh!
<aquarius__> if it were syncdaemon I'd know who to talk to :)
<magcius> RAOF, was "No.  There *is* a weird bug where one of compiz's X connections sits around waiting for input that never comes, though." addressed to me?
<RAOF> magcius: Indeed it was.
<magcius> Why would killing notify-osd fix it?
<RAOF> aquarius__: is in such a state ;)
<aquarius__> RAOF: that's why I thought it might be related; syndaemon is sort of an X thing, no?
<magcius> RAOF, also, I'm running metacity and gnome-panel, not compiz.
<RAOF> aquarius__: syndaemon is an X-ish thing, yeah.
<RAOF> aquarius__: File a bug; Chase Douglas is super-smart and up with the whole X input stack - he's who you want to talk to there.
<magcius> So I assume notify-osd froze, and it's not ACK-ing D-Bus notifications, which makes GTK+ freeze.
<aquarius__> RAOF: OK, gdb into X says "Cannot access memory at address <blah> / <address> in __kernel_vsyscall ()". (I haven't made it restart yet.) Is that what you'd expect it to say at this point?
<RAOF> aquarius__: Hm, no.
<RAOF> aquarius__: You need to do  âsudo gdb Xorg $(pgrep X)â, due to the slightly crazy way we do things.
<aquarius__> ah
<RAOF>  /usr/bin/X is a little wrapper; Xorg is where the fun is.
<aquarius__> ok, that makes sense. Now done that; X is still in __kernel_vsyscall
<RAOF> Yeah; it'll be polling.
<aquarius__> (but now I get much more sensible-looking output :))
<RAOF> Well, it'll be select()ing
<aquarius__> right, so now I should kill -9 compiz and start metacity, yes? And then if X dies, get a backtrace from gdb
<aquarius__> ?
<aquarius__> (I'm not good with this sort of debugging, so sorry you have to give me a remedial class in it :))
<RAOF> First you probably want to âhandle SIGPIPE nostop noprintâ in gdb, or you'll get a bunch of spurious SIGPIPEs.
<aquarius__> done
<RAOF> Then, yeah; kill compiz and start metacity.
<aquarius> well, *that* was less than successful.
<RAOF> Oh.
<aquarius> RAOF, I killed compiz fine, and then on running "DISPLAY=:0 metacity --replace" in a VC...the machine hung.
<RAOF> Um.  You weren't trying to gdb on the same machine as X was running on?
<aquarius> I don't know whether the machine itself was locked up or whether just the screen wouldn't change.
<magcius> RAOF, any other suggestions, or should I ping MacSlow?
<magcius> (well, I just did)
<aquarius> RAOF, I was. I only have the one machine. :)
<aquarius> you're gonna tell me that this is like debugging ssh while sshed in, aren't you?
<MacSlow> magcius, indeed :)
<MacSlow> magcius, what's up?
<RAOF> aquarius: Ah.  So, what happened *there* was that gdb stopped X while it was handling the VT switch.
<magcius> MacSlow, running gnome-panel and metacity
<magcius> occasionally, gtk+ windows lock up
<RAOF> aquarius: Leading to *hilarious* consequences!
<magcius> pkill notify-osd
<magcius> everything works
<aquarius> RAOF, heh. :)
<MacSlow> magcius, hm... that's new
<RAOF> It is kinda possible to run gdb against X on the same machine, but it's not particularly reliable.
<magcius> MacSlow, I'm running: xchat, gnome-terminal, banshee, emacs
<magcius> also firefox
<aquarius> RAOF, ah. So, then, what we're suggesting here is: someone else has to get you your backtrace :)
<magcius> it seems to happen the most with banshee's track change notifications
<MacSlow> magcius, do you have a ~/.cache/notify-osd.log handy somewhere?
<magcius> but that's usually the notifications i get
<RAOF> aquarius: Indeed :)
<magcius> MacSlow, yes.
<MacSlow> magcius, can you paste it somewhere?
<magcius> MacSlow, all it has is the latest notification: [2011-04-12T03:59:08-00:00, notify-sharp ] Coastal Brake
<magcius> by 'Tycho' from 'Coastal Brake'
<magcius> could be ndesk-dbus or notify-sharp that's being dumb
<MacSlow> magcius, hm... ok that's a dead end then...
<aquarius> RAOF, thanks for the help thus far, though. Given that you know about the compiz problem, and I can't debug X dying without a second machine, is there anything else that I can provide you the next time this happens? Or should I just restart X, confident in the knowledge that you're working on it? :)
<MacSlow> magcius, do you perhaps know any method to forcefully cause this lockup?
<magcius> MacSlow, nope.
<magcius> I'll try some more
<magcius> but when it happens again, is there anything I should do?
<MacSlow> magcius, that would be very helpful... otherwise it's very hard to guess what's going wrong.
<RAOF> aquarius: I think you're off the hook :).  No further debugging questions, y'rhonour.
<magcius> get a gdb backtrace and see what it's polling for?
<aquarius> RAOF, sorry I can't be more helpful!
<MacSlow> magcius, yes
<zniavre> sorry to ask again but what can i do for this please ?  > http://i.imgur.com/kxkxz.png <
<magcius> zniavre, looks like a driver bug
<MacSlow> magcius, and try to save the ~/.cache/notify-osd.log as it gets overwritten when notify-osd is restarted
<zniavre> ho ? im using nouveau
<magcius> As I said, looks like a driver bug
<zniavre> that s a good new
<akshatj> zniavre, unity has many problems with nouveau for me
<RAOF> zniavre: How new is your compiz?  I've had approximately that bug a couple of times over teh cycle; a new compiz fixed things.
<zniavre> i experience this since yesterday update compiz/nouveau/unity
<dbarth> rodrigo_: hey rodrigo, i've noticed this bug about accessible descriptions
<dbarth> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-applet/+bug/726005
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 726005 in indicator-applet (Ubuntu) "indicator-applet crashed with SIGSEGV in g_cclosure_marshal_VOID__POINTER()" [Medium,Confirmed]
<dbarth> is there something in the code that looks wrong?
<rodrigo_> dbarth, looking
<zniavre> RAOF,  i hav filled a bug report yesterday https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/757990
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 757990 in unity (Ubuntu) "missing but working icons in unity-launcher" [Undecided,New]
<magcius> MacSlow, not *quite* sure how to do that considering anything gtk+-based dies, including gnome-terminal
<magcius> and nvidia broke ttys :(
<MacSlow> magcius, arglÂ²
<MacSlow> magcius, can you still ssh into that machine from elsewhere?
<RAOF> zniavre: (Fortunately?) We're not supporting nouveau's 3D, and it's likely to be a driver bugâ¦
<magcius> does notify-osd log to stderr?
 * RAOF updates his nouveau machine to check.
<rodrigo_> dbarth, TheMuso should know better
<magcius> I could do "/usr/libexec/notify-osd 2> ~/crashing.log" and let the system restart it when I pkill notify-osd
<magcius> MacSlow, and no, no laptop nearby. This is my desktop.
<rodrigo_> TheMuso, around?
<zniavre> RAOF,  ok thank you answering  do i cancel my report  ?
<RAOF> zniavre: Leave it there; we might get around to doing something about it.
<RAOF> zniavre: And we'll *eventually* want to support nouveau's 3D
<zniavre> \o/
<MacSlow> magcius, well... if you start it from a shell/terminal (after killing the current one running) you could capture it's output to a file
<magcius> MacSlow, right, does it log to stderr?
<magcius> MacSlow, ok, I think I may have found something
<magcius> loading icon 'notification-/home/jstpierre/.cache/media-art/album-d50f662d41e1699e07f0baefbc6fd145.jpg' caused error: 'Icon 'notification-/home/jstpierre/.cache/media-art/album-d50f662d41e1699e07f0baefbc6fd145.jpg' not present in theme'**
<magcius> MacSlow, icon still displays fine though
<magcius> so not sure if it's just a dumb warning
<MacSlow> magcius, that looks nasty -> "notification-/"
<magcius> DEBUG: [2011-04-12T04:48:46-00:00, notify-sharp, id:1, icon:/home/jstpierre/.cache/media-art/album-d50f662d41e1699e07f0baefbc6fd145.jpg]
<MacSlow> trying to replace a normal (icon) file-name with symbolic one
<magcius> looks like it's sending it across D-Bus fine
<MacSlow> magcius, which icon-theme are you using?
<magcius> Ubuntu-Mono-Dark
<magcius> according to gnome-appearance-properties
<MacSlow> magcius, this "notification-/" indicates that the symbolic icon-name-substitution is getting in the way
<magcius> uh, OK
<MacSlow> there's a workaround in place in notify-osd that I've never had time to solve properly
<MacSlow> magcius, just can't say why it's triggered for a normal album-art icon/image
<magcius> who is doing that
<MacSlow> magcius, notify-osd
<magcius> I mean the "notification-" prepending?
<MacSlow> magcius, notfy-osd is doing that
<magcius> OK
<MacSlow> magcius, are you at home with compiling stuff yourself?
<magcius> Of course.
<MacSlow> magcius, if you want you could quickly compile notify-osd without that workaround
<MacSlow> magcius, apt-get source notify-osd
<magcius> MacSlow, https://code.launchpad.net/~jstpierre/notify-osd/365162 :D
<magcius> I did that a loong time ago
<MacSlow> magcius, notify-osd/src/bubble.c:122 set it to 0
<MacSlow> magcius, recompile
<magcius> OK
<MacSlow> magcius, run the resulting notify-osd binary from that and see if that solves your issue
<MacSlow> magcius, which I'm very certain it will
<magcius> The image loads fine in the end.
<magcius> It was just something I saw.
<MacSlow> magcius, still I wish we could get rid of such workarounds to fix others issues :)
<magcius> Technically, they shouldn't be using icon, but image_path instead, right?
<magcius> Er, wait
<magcius> the "icon" property doesn't exist?
 * magcius looks at http://people.gnome.org/~mccann/docs/notification-spec/notification-spec-latest.html#icons-and-images
<MacSlow> magcius, I need to switch back to unity... anything else is better handled via sending email
<magcius> OK.
 * MacSlow looks at all the unread email
<MacSlow> *rolling.eyes*
<om26er> good morning lamalex
<lamalex> morning om26er
<lamalex> morning cdbs,
<om26er> lamalex, I am back to triage btw
<kenvandine> tedg, uh oh... distro patching that dbusmenu branch from mterrry broke quicklists
<kenvandine> tedg, at least for apps that don't have an app running associated with the desktop file
<tedg> kenvandine, I'm on a call, but I'm surprised that happened... I didn't realize that stuff was using dbusmenu....
<kenvandine> yup
<kenvandine> dynamic quicklists
<tedg> kenvandine, I'd be suspicious that was it.
<kenvandine> i just verified, downgrading dbusmenu fixed it
<tedg> kenvandine, You lie!  ;-)
<kenvandine> perhaps the bug is really somewhere in unity :)
<kenvandine> this is just uncovering it
<kenvandine> tedg, ok... i take that back
<kenvandine> i must be lying :)
 * tedg dances the kenvandine is a lier dance ;-)
<kenvandine> tedg, it worked twice in a row after downgrading
<kenvandine> but now it failed again
<kenvandine> must be racy
<kvalo> kenvandine: hi. a quick question, any hope of gwibber ever supporting a push method for new messages?
<kenvandine> kvalo, you mean like twitter live stream?
<kvalo> kenvandine: something which doesn't poll :)
<kenvandine> or real time feed, whatever they call it :)
<kenvandine> kvalo, yes... for services that support it
<kenvandine> and... only if i get to do the refactoring work i want to do
<kvalo> kenvandine: cool, so there's hope! :)
<kenvandine> indeed :)
<kvalo> kenvandine: thanks
<kenvandine> we'll be talking about that kind of stuff at UDS, so you should try to show up to show support :)
<kenvandine> our current scheduling mechanism wouldn't really handle that kind of thing well
<om26er> njpatel_, Hi! bug 734900 thoughts?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 734900 in unity (Ubuntu) "window title still fades even if there are no menus" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/734900
<lamalex> om26er, just do an ayatana-design task
<lamalex> normal design bug workflow
<njpatel_> om26er, fixing today
<lamalex> heh, oh ok or not
<om26er> lamalex, ;)
<om26er> njpatel_, thanks
<nerochiaro> smspillaz|z: can you please ping me when you have a spare minute ?
<lamalex> tedg, should i wishlist or wontfix thishttps://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/756434
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 756434 in unity-place-applications (Ubuntu) "under Unity clock does not show map with locations when I click on it" [Undecided,New]
<lamalex> tedg, should i wishlist or wontfix this https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/756434
<tedg> lamalex, bug 756434 shoudl be wishlist -- but for indicator-datetime
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 756434 in unity-place-applications (Ubuntu) "under Unity clock does not show map with locations when I click on it" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/756434
<tedg> Oh, those were the same :-)
<lamalex> tedg, right
<lamalex> i was just fixing the space, sorry :P
<tedg> lamalex, I can't imagine a reason to really have that map in there -- it seems like eye candy to me.  But, it's definitely a feature request.
<lamalex> yah
<lamalex> it was definitely eye candy
<lamalex> but it /was/ nice in gnome 2.x
<lamalex> had your locations on it with daylight. i enjoyed it
<lamalex> was helpful for day dreaming about the weather hawaii
<kenvandine> cdbs, i see you noticed dynamic quicklists have stopped working
<kenvandine> sort of
<kenvandine> i've been trying to bi-sect that today... they worked last week
<cdbs> kenvandine: :o
<cdbs> kenvandine: so I'm not alone
<kenvandine> it works like 1 out of 10 tries :)
<cdbs> kenvandine: In my case they worked a few hours ago
<kenvandine> so not completely broken, must be race condition of some sort
<cdbs> kenvandine: and now they won't work, I tried around 15-20 times
<didrocks> I didn't change the code there in unity
<jcastro> didrocks: any idea what's up here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/692462/
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 692462 in chromium-browser (Ubuntu) "unity confused with chromium web apps" [Medium,Fix committed]
<kenvandine> didrocks, i ruled out the bamf and dbusmenu updates
<jcastro> didrocks: I can reproduce on a clean install, I just don't know where to reopen, bamf or unity.
<kenvandine> didrocks, so i am guessing either libunity or unity
<kenvandine> but leaning towards unity
<kenvandine> i tried the 3.6.8 gir with libunity3 and it fails too
<didrocks> jcastro: DBO revert a part of the merge for latest release
<kenvandine> but that might not be a great test
<kenvandine> since unity is using libunity4
<didrocks> jcastro: it was wrong IIRC, better to check with him
<jcastro> didrocks: ok so is it a bamf problem or a unity problem?
<jcastro> ok
<didrocks> kenvandine: libunity didn't get any update, bamf update isn't linked to that part
<jcastro> DBO: yo
<didrocks> jcastro: bamf
<kenvandine> didrocks, there was the API change last week...
<didrocks> kenvandine: yeah, but that happened since yesterday, isn't it?
<DBO> jcastro, what?
<kenvandine> didrocks, yeah, just trying to narrow down the field
<kenvandine> didrocks, i am not sure it worked consistently yesterday
<kenvandine> i know it worked consistently last week
<jcastro> DBO: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/692462/ this isn't Fix Released anymore
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 692462 in chromium-browser (Ubuntu) "unity confused with chromium web apps" [Medium,Fix committed]
<kenvandine> now it works rarely
<kenvandine> fails in both vala and python for sure
<DBO> jcastro, yeah I need to speak with trevino
<kenvandine> so not pygi
<jcastro> DBO: this is related: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bamf/+bug/744972
<DBO> his work is crashing
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 744972 in bamf (Ubuntu) "BAMF window matching for Chromium webapps" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<jcastro> ah ok
<DBO> i am about to revert the whole shooting match
<jcastro> thanks for the update
 * didrocks is happy to not merging that himself and let DBO handle it :-)
<DBO> didrocks, dont touch bamf right now
<didrocks> DBO: oh, I don't! :-)
<DBO> jcastro, if you can get me in touch with him
<DBO> that would be good
<didrocks> that's exactly why I told jcastro the other day I didn't want to touch this merge :-)
<jcastro> I just panged him on irc
<jono> are you folks aware of a bug with multiple icons on the Launcher?
<kenvandine> didrocks, i am suspicious of rev 1105 of unity
 * DBO rips jonos head off
<jono> for the same app, I mean
<kenvandine> "merge neils branch of epic win"
<jono> DBO, :-)
<didrocks> kenvandine: it's the one merging the urgent icons new API and removing the other one
<DBO> kenvandine, neil needs to learn to name his branches better
<didrocks> jono: happens when bamfdaemon is restarting
<kenvandine> -  DbusmenuMenuitem* item   = NULL;
<jono> didrocks, ahhh
<kenvandine> +  QuicklistMenuItem* menu_item = NULL;
<kenvandine> +  DbusmenuMenuitem*  item   = NULL;
<kenvandine> it seems to be touching that area
<didrocks> kenvandine: argh
<didrocks> let me kill Neil to remove my work :)
<kenvandine> hehe
<kenvandine> then
<kenvandine> +  menu_item = GetNthItems (index);
<kenvandine> +  if (!menu_item)
<kenvandine> +    return false;
<kenvandine> perhaps dbusmenu isn't finished setting up when he does that check?
 * kenvandine really has no clue, just random guesses here
<kenvandine> but this looks suspicious
 * kenvandine goes to lunch :)
<didrocks> kenvandine: probably, and so we are back to first point, with the race (the one mterry fixed)
<DBO> jono, if you have a reliable method of reproducing the bamf crash
<DBO> please tell me
<jono> DBO, I didn't see a bamf crash, I started Gwibber and saw three icons :-)
<DBO> jono, what else do you have running?
<DBO> what favorites do you have
<jono> DBO, in my launcher?
<DBO> yes
<jono> Nautilus, Firefox, Terminal, Tomboy, USC, XChat-GNOME, GTG, Thunderbird, GTK-Record-My-Desktop, GEdit, Skype, Gimp, Ubuntu One Control Panel, and I have Evolution open (three icons) and Gwibber (three icons)
<jono> DBO, ^
<jono> I have also seen multiple banshee icons before
<DBO> whcih ones have you pinned?
<jono> it seems to be apps started from the indicators that have muiltiple icons
<jono> all those apps are ones I have pinned to my launcher
<jono> I think it is something to do with starting apps from indicators
<jono> I haven't noticed this issue with other apps
<DBO> you dont have any non-pinned apps running?
<jono> DBO, I do, Gedit, GTG, XChat, Firefox
<jono> oh hang on
<jono> no
<jono> non-pinned apps, no
<jono> well
<jono> Evo and Gwibber are not pinned, I start them from the indicators, and I have them running
<didrocks> lamalex: set-lp-dup is what you want
<seb128> DBO, the comments suggest quite some users got it while using file selector dialog
<DBO> seb128, k
<DBO> I need all of these dupes traced
<DBO> can i get some retracing done?
<DBO> why the shit cant I get bamf to crash
<seb128> DBO, the retracers are working
<DBO> if I fail to fix this bug for a 3rd time I think seb128 will just kill me
<seb128> not sure what you mean
<DBO> maybe I looked at the wrong dupe
<seb128> the thing is that they just clean and close the new bugs since they have the same stacktrace
<seb128> that's the best way to avoid making public private infos
<seb128> the duplicates are cleaned and turned public
<DBO> with different strings
<DBO> which I need to see
<seb128> no luck for you then
<DBO> :(
<DBO> thats crap
<seb128> well jono had the issue
<seb128> he probably has the .crash locally and can give you some infos
<jono> bamf has crashed for me
<jono> I saw an error dialog
<jono> seb128, where would I find a .crash ?
<seb128> jono, in /var/crash
<jono> _usr_lib_bamf_bamfdaemon.1000.crash
<jono> I have that
<seb128> right
<seb128> jono, so can you do that
<seb128> install bamfdaemon-dbgsym
<jono> seb128, what do you want me to do?
<seb128> then double click on that .crash in nautilus
<seb128> or use ubuntu-bug -c on it
<jono> ok, one sec
<jono> E: Unable to locate package bamfdaemon-dbgsym
<jono> seb128, ^
<seb128> jono, what arch do you use?
<jono> seb128, x86
<seb128> how come people there don't have a ddeb source configured ;-)
<seb128> jono, so either configure a ddeb apt source as described on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProgramCrash or wget http://ddebs.ubuntu.com/pool/main/b/bamf/bamfdaemon-dbgsym_0.2.86-0ubuntu1_i386.ddeb and dpkg -i it
<seb128> jono, ddeb source is basically adding "deb http://ddebs.ubuntu.com natty main restricted universe multiverse" to your sources.list
<jono> seb128, ok, I installed it and double-clicked on it in FF and now it is filing a bug
<seb128> jono, thanks, can you make the bug public and give the number when it's filed? or if you don't want to make it public subscribe me to it
<seb128> jono, bamf shouldn't have any private data out of the name of running applications if you are fine making those infos public
<jono> np, one sec
<jono> seb128, so it is registering "bamfdaemon crashed with SIGABRT in dbus_g_connection_register_g_object()" of which there are other bugs and dupes
<jono> should I file it anyway
<jono> ?
<seb128> jono, yes
<seb128> jono, DBO needs info from a new bug
<jono> seb128, DBO https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bamf/+bug/758965
<seb128> the other ones got cleaned by the retracers
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 758965 in bamf (Ubuntu) "bamfdaemon crashed with SIGABRT in dbus_g_connection_register_g_object()" [Undecided,New]
<didrocks> seb128: can you stop the retracer from cleaning this one?
<seb128> DBO, https://launchpadlibrarian.net/69148113/Stacktrace.txt
<seb128> didrocks, we can once, but it will add the first one it retracers to the stacktraces db and dup the next ones from it
<DBO> thank you seb128
<seb128> DBO, thanks jono
<DBO> thanks jono
<jono> np
<jono> let me know if there is anything I else I can do to help
<seb128> #10 0x080561bc in open_office_window_setup_timer (args=0x90f4198) at bamf-matcher.c:1347
<DBO> yes its always open office
<seb128> DBO, other bugs suggested they were using libreoffice to open a document when they got it
<seb128> DBO: you got the gdb crashdump on the bug as well if you have an i386 install and want to play withit
<DBO> amd64
<DBO> but thank you
<DBO> seb128, can you confirm this
<DBO> open libre writer, and then libre calc
<DBO> then open the FIle Open from writer
<DBO> does that crash it?
<seb128> DBO, just having one librewriter opening the fileselector and closing it seems enough
<seb128> or rather just opening the fileselector seems enough
<DBO> for me i need both
<DBO> either way this gives me what I need
<DBO> and I can confirm the duplication
<seb128> DBO, it's not specific to libreoffice by reading the comments though, this stacktrace seemed specific to it
<DBO> every stacktrace I have seen has had the open office delay timer in it
<DBO> sometimes the apport window pops late
<seb128> ok
<jcastro> kamstrup: any idea what could be going on here? our lens stopped working on login: https://bugs.launchpad.net/askubuntu-lens/+bug/758839
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 758839 in AskUbuntu Lens "Lens doesn't start on login" [Undecided,New]
<kamstrup> jcastro: anything in .xsession-errors?
<seb128> DBO, ok, can you do that: wget https://launchpadlibrarian.net/69149337/_usr_lib_bamf_bamfdaemon.1000.crash, apport-unpack _usr_lib_bamf_bamfdaemon.1000.crash dir; cd dir; and use gdb on the crashdump there?
<seb128> DBO, it's the crash from skaet, she just added it and she said she didn't use libreoffice
<seb128> DBO, so might be worth checking the stacktrace from this one
<DBO> where is the trace?
<seb128> DBO, I just copied the commands for you to use gdb on it
<seb128> DBO: then type "bt"
<DBO> yeah, thanks :)
<seb128> DBO, it's not retraced but that way you can get debug infos locally
<seb128> DBO, can you let me know if the stacktrace is a libreoffice one as well or if it's a different case. skaet think she didn't use libreoffice
<seb128> DBO: quite some of the duplicates suggest it happen with firefox in some cases as well
<seb128> oh it does
<seb128> DBO, opening a fileselector in firefox crash bamf here
<DBO> seb128, confirmed
<seb128> DBO, ok, so I think you got what you need
<seb128> DBO, happy debugging
<DBO> yeah
<DBO> thanks
<seb128> DBO, r-t is asking when you think you can get a fix? they would like to get it fixed in beta2 if possible seeing the number of users running into it and the easy way to trigger it
<DBO> seb128, today
<seb128> DBO, ok, please let me or didrocks know when you have a fix to try or that we can backport to natty
<seb128> didrocks, ^
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, I'll upload right away in case of a respin
<didrocks> DBO: ^
<seb128> didrocks, thanks
<seb128> didrocks, upload right away in any case, I told skaet we would get it in the queue for them once it's ready
<seb128> didrocks, then they can do what they judge right
<kenvandine> cdbs, i have a fix for the broken quicklists
<kenvandine> https://code.launchpad.net/~ken-vandine/unity/make-quicklists-work-again/+merge/57386
<kenvandine> it looks like mterry's previous fix got reverted accidentally
<cdbs> kenvandine: :o
<cdbs> kenvandine: nice catch
 * cdbs 'll test it
<cdbs> kenvandine: ping
<kenvandine> cdbs, pong
<cdbs> kenvandine: the fix worked, but a new problem, if the dbusmenu specified contains a hidden menuitem, then unity crashes
 * cdbs reports
<kenvandine> ugh
<kenvandine> thx
<lamalex> DBO, what do we know about the ivisible windows bug?
<lamalex> i have a guy who says he can trigger it with the grid plugin
<DBO> it should be mostly resolved
<lamalex> DBO, as of when
<lamalex> this was filed on the 10th
<DBO> link?
<lamalex> https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/756765
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 756765 in unity (Ubuntu) "compiz + grid, turn window invisible" [Undecided,New]
<DBO> that is the grid clipping bug
<DBO> its fixed on the 11th
<lamalex> k
<lamalex> thanks
<LLStarks> didrocks wanted this but whatever
<LLStarks> bug 759198
<ubot5> Error: Launchpad bug 759198 could not be found
<LLStarks> ubot fails
<LLStarks> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bamf/+bug/759198
<Omega> The lockscreen is ugly.
<Omega> It's probably what I hate most about my Ubuntu experience.
<Daekdroom> bamfdaemon just crashed out of the blur.
<Daekdroom> But instead of getting the backtrace I closed the window unconsciously, heh.
<Omega> I just got a GPU lockup and apport crashing while submitting.
<sergio__> I'm wondering if this is worth submitting a bug to Ayatana. The launcher in unity recognizes input with a control key as a garabge character. For example, typing Ctrl+V or Ctrl+A into the launcher results in garbage text being shown.
<sergio__> This is in the natty beta btw
<Omega> sergio__: submit the bug to unity
<Omega> (check if it's submitted)
<Omega> I'll confirm it
<sergio__> Omega, i havent seen one, so i was just wondering if it seemed bug worthy
<delac> affects mee too. I would say it's quite worth a bug report
<delac> I mean, I really would like to be able to paste into the thing
<Omega> Something actually shows up when you search for .,,ctrl+/
<sergio__> not for me
<sergio__> ctrl+i gives a big space
<sergio__> ctrl+a does select all
<sergio__> ctrl+j is little space?
<sergio__> as wel as ctrl m
<Omega> And we have a crash!
<sergio__> go figure any combination of ctrl and , . ; ' works fine
#ayatana 2011-04-13
<sergio__> and ctrl 1,9, and 0 work but no other numbers? i might have to peek at that code later to see what kind of mess is going on
<Omega> sergio__: did you report it?
<nhaines> sergio__: Ctrl-I is a tab character.
<nhaines> I don't know what Ctrl-J is.
<sergio__> i see
<sergio__> yOmega im submitting now, got sidetracked
<nhaines> Oh, used to be linefeed.
<sergio__> funny, i may be retarded but I can't seem to press the printscreen button with the launcher up
<Omega> That is correct.
<sergio__> damn
<Omega> (meaning, I can't either)
<sergio__> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/759290
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 759290 in unity (Ubuntu) "Control Character input does not work for launcher" [Undecided,New]
<Omega> You should file that as a separate bug
<sergio__> its probably's taking control of screen input, so maybe the fix will bubble those things through.
<hicham> firefox window doesn't seem to be matched correctly
<Omega> hicham: Hmm?
<Omega> Here's someone reviewing 11.04: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaLDMz_e2jQ
<hicham> Omega: I get one icon per firefox window on the dash
<hicham> Omega: so the firefox window isn't matched correctly, unlike the other apps who have only one icon on the dash, no matter how many windows are open
<Omega> Hmm, that's a bamf bug then.
<hicham> yeah
<hicham> you don't have that issue ?
<Omega> Nope
<hicham> weird
<hicham> either firefox or bamf is patch in ubuntu then
<hicham> *patched
<Omega> firefox isn't patched in ubuntu, that's for sure
<Omega> File a bamf bug.
<hicham> ok
<hicham> other apps work fine from what I can see
<hicham> I am gonna finish building the whole stack then report bugs
<hicham> thanks
<Omega> alright
<PASJR> Can anyone tell me how do I change the background on the launcher?  I changed the image files I could find, but still have the same black launcer.
<pasjr_> Can anyone tell me how do I change the background on the launcher?  I changed the image files I could find, but still have the same black launcer.
<RAOF> pasjr_: As far as I'm aware it's not (yet) possible.
<pasjr_> Well that really is not cool.
<pasjr_> It may be time to leave Ubuntu
<jbicha> I expect it will be themeable for natty+1
<RAOF> Maybe.  It's a rather inoffensive matte black bar; the titlebar and such follow the GTK themes.
<floorian> where is the best place to leave feedback on Unity?
<smspillaz|z> nerochiaro: pong, but I'm going to be out in a few minutes
<didrocks> good morning
<didrocks> RAOF: hey, any hint on the X freeze since yesterday?
<RAOF> Ggggrrrargh?
<RAOF> I've got some small testcases which *don't* reproduce the problem :/
<didrocks> urgh :/
<RAOF> Also, compiz for some reason seems to segfault when run under X trace.
<RAOF> So I'm going to attach gdb to compiz and X and watch their communication *that* way.
<RAOF> That's a bit more hairy, though.
<didrocks> hum, sounds fun! :)
<RAOF> It's like three *whole* barells of monkeys!
<RAOF> Thrown, using a trebuchet, across a *cravasse of fire* into a tarpit of weasels!
<didrocks> heh, that sentence can be directly attribute to Monkey Island I won't be surprised :)
<oSoMoN> v
<oSoMoN> good morning
<didrocks> RAOF: you fixed bug #758307
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 758307 in unity (Ubuntu) "compiz crashed on initial load of Java Citrix Client" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/758307
<didrocks> salut oSoMoN
<RAOF> didrocks: No, that was smspillaz|z, wasn't it?
<didrocks> oh assignee: nobody â Chris Halse Rogers (raof)
<didrocks> but yeah, it's Rick :)
<RAOF> :)
<MacSlow> greetings everybody
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks, hey MacSlow
<didrocks> smspillaz|z: ^^
<didrocks> Guten Morgen MacSlow
<MacSlow> salut didrocks
<MacSlow> hey oSoMoN, smspillaz|z
<elricl> hello
<elricl> I just upgraded my natty after a long time and it crashed during boot.
<elricl> It said unable to mount /
<elricl> Wait or skip mount
<elricl> Anyone?
<elricl> Anyone?
<didrocks> RAOF: maybe bug #750775 can help you triggering the issue?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 750775 in unity (Ubuntu) "Keynav in launcher unfocuses active window, doesn't return to it when finished" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/750775
<dbarth> elricl: hi, what's up?
<elricl> dbarth: as i said after the upgrade natty wont boot
<elricl> dbarth: during the ubuntu plymouth screen it says, cant boot /
<elricl> njpatel: a little help? After upgrade natty stops at plymouth screen,says it cant mount / and goes to a maintainence shell
<njpatel> elricl, :/ I can't really help with that dude, I think you need to try #ubuntu-desktop
<elricl> njpatel: ok. thanx
<TheMuso> elricl: Actually, #ubuntu+1 would be a better channel for your query.
<jbache> any unity 2d devs in here
<jbache> ?
 * jbache would be happy to help out with gtk2 theming
<cdbs> seb128: ping, it appears Apport isn't picking up crash reports when Unity/Compiz crashes
<seb128> cdbs, hi, how do we receive all those crash bugs on launchpad then?
<cdbs> seb128: I myself am confused
<cdbs> seb128: but for some reason the crash files aren't coming up there
<seb128> where is "there"?
<cdbs> seb128: Not just me, many others are also experiencing similar things
<cdbs> seb128: /var/crash
<seb128> you are sure it's crashing?
<seb128> do you get anything in that dir?
<cdbs> seb128: yeah, segfault
<cdbs> seb128: nope
<seb128> is apport enabled?
<cdbs> seb128: yeah
<seb128> can does status apport says?
<cdbs> apport start/running
<cdbs> seb128: ^
<seb128> can you check apport.log?
<seb128> or pastebin it
<cdbs> seb128: empty
<seb128> then apport.log.1
<hicham> morning didrocks
<cdbs> seb128: okay, that makes sense:
<cdbs> seb128: ERROR: apport (pid 3714) Tue Apr 12 15:54:51 2011: this executable already crashed 2 times, ignoring
<cdbs> Old compiz crash files are lying there alredy
<cdbs> *already
<seb128> cdbs, right, you need to clean the old crashes
<cdbs> sudo rm -r /var/crash
<cdbs> oops, wrong window
<cdbs> seb128: thanks for the info then
<cdbs> I thought it should overwrite the old crashes
<seb128> cdbs, it's doing that to avoid spamming you with apport dialogs if a service keeps crashing and restarting for example
<didrocks> hey hicham
<cdbs> seb128: AFAIK it used to do that in the Maverick cycle
<hicham> didrocks: unity finally works here
<cdbs> dbarth: ^ problem solution found
<seb128> cdbs, no, it has a counter in the .crash
<didrocks> hicham: nice! what was the cause of the touch crash?
<seb128> cdbs, it clean those after a delay
<cdbs> hmm
<hicham> didrocks: it seems that it was supposing that xi2.1 support was there, while it itsn't
<didrocks> hicham: oh ok ;)
<hicham> didrocks: removing the crashing code from utouch-geis made it work
<didrocks> cool :)
<hicham> didrocks: now I am trying to build the indicators
<didrocks> hicham: good luck! that's another big piece :)
<hicham> didrocks: as a side note, vala bindings generation fails when using gtk2
<hicham> didrocks: the work fine for gtk3 bindings
<didrocks> hicham: yeah, we got a lot of headache with this since maverick, hence the fact we export them ourself
<hicham> didrocks: so to install an indicator, I just have to build/install it ? no other step needed ?
<didrocks> hicham: we have patches for some applications to get the indicator integration
<didrocks> hicham: talk to kenvandine when he's back, he's in charge of the integration of them
<hicham> didrocks: thanks
<zniavre> good morning
<zniavre> i asked few days ago how to change the color of small blue triangle when apps requires attention (im color-blind blue is un-visible for me)
<jbache> are there current plans for using gtk3 with unity?
<didrocks> zniavre: it's currently hardcoded though :/ would you mind opening a bug and post it there? We can ask design to have a look at how it should be handled (it should impact the indicator messaging menu color as well)
<hicham> didrocks: the search function doesn't work yet ? ( in what replace traditional gnome menu )
<didrocks> hicham: do you have unity-place-applications and unity-place-files installed?
<hicham> didrocks: not yet
<didrocks> you need them for the search
<hicham> didrocks: thanks, how do you start the unity session ? I created two files in /usr/share/gnome-session/sessions and /usr/share/xsessions
<hicham> didrocks: but I still don't see how to default to unity (example, for building a live cd )
<didrocks> hicham: we are using compiz profiles for that
<didrocks> hicham: look in an ubuntu box at /etc/compizconfig/
<hicham> didrocks: is there a package for that ?
<didrocks> hicham: and /etc/X11/Xsession.d/65compiz_profile-on-session
<didrocks> hicham: it's in the ubuntu compiz package
<hicham> didrocks: and the session/desktop files are in compiz package too?
<didrocks> hicham: we basically activate a gconf profile which sets the unityshell plugin by default
<didrocks> hicham: the sessions are in gnome-session
<hicham> didrocks: so compiz should be using the gconf backend ?
<hicham> didrocks: instead of the default ccp one
<didrocks> hicham: instead of init you mean
<didrocks> (ccp load init or gconf)
<didrocks> hicham: just create a compiz profile init or gconf with unityshell by default in it
<didrocks> hicham: we choosed gconf for natty
<zniavre> didrocks,  i already changed the messaging menu icons  i ll fill report this afternoon thank you
<didrocks> zniavre: thanks to you :)
<hicham> didrocks: which package provides unity.pc file ?
<didrocks> hicham: libunity, it's a binding that application can implement to interact with the launcher
<didrocks> like setting progress bar, icon urgency
<hicham> didrocks: thanks, I am sorry if I am asking too much questions
<didrocks> hicham: no worry, I may not be so responsive every time though :-)
<dbarth> jbache: hi; you should ping Kaleo or agateau for example (well, they're pinged now ;)
<jbache> dbarth: Thanks. I just pinged kaleo
<agateau> dbarth: jbache: what is the question?
<jbache> agateau: I am wondering about theming integration. Since I already do something similar with qml and gtk.
<jbache> agateau: also plans with regards to scenegraph etc. You already support translucency so why no drop shadows?
<jbache> agateau: some context http://labs.qt.nokia.com/2011/03/10/qml-components-for-desktop/
<jbache> agateau: also if you need any specific things from qt qt the moment
<agateau> jbache: primary target for unity-2d was machine without much gfx power so we did not spend too much time on adding visual effects
<agateau> jbache: about needing something from qt, yes we need review for this:
<agateau> jbache: https://live.gnome.org/ThreePointOne/Features/ApplicationMenu
<agateau> oups
<agateau> wrong url :)
<jbache> agateau: hehe
<agateau> jbache: https://qt.gitorious.org/qt/qt/merge_requests/916/
<jbache> agateau: I'll see what I can do
<jbache> agateau: are there any valid technical reason why you couldnt essentially use qml for unity itself?
<agateau> jbache: unity-3d you mean?
<jbache> agateau: yes
<jbache> agateau: it seems rather simple to extend it to support those graphical effects
<agateau> jbache: i'd let dbarth answer this one
 * jbache senses it is not the first time the question came up
<lucazade> ping om26er ... i've updated bug 696427 because I still get it
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 696427 in unity (Ubuntu) "Unity visual glitches and freeze (libgl1-dri-mesa-experimental)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/696427
<zniavre> didrocks, https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/759719    (sorry for english )
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 759719 in unity "(request)small blue triangle un-visible for colour-blind people" [Undecided,New]
<hicham> didrocks: I installed unity-places-applications and now I can find my applications :)
<didrocks> hicham: nice :)
<didrocks> zniavre: I'm adding some design task so that designers can have a look
<zniavre> thank you
<didrocks> zniavre: no worry on the english btw, it's better than mine :)
<zniavre> :o)
<AnAnt> Hello, how can I add software categories in Unity's application browser ? I've got extra-xdg-menus installed , yet I don't see the Electronics category for example
<hicham> didrocks: it would have been nice to have mono as optional build dep, instead of hard-depending on it :(
<didrocks> hicham: mono is a theme name
<hicham> didrocks: no, i mean mono (.Net clone)
<didrocks> hicham: where is it a dep?
<hicham> didrocks: libappindicator for example ( it is only a build dep, not a runtime dep)
<didrocks> hicham: well, indicator is for kenvandine and tedg
<didrocks> I think it's for generating some mono bindings
<hicham> didrocks: what part do you develop ?
<didrocks> hicham: unity itself
<hicham> didrocks: thanks for the great job !
<didrocks> yw, all the team does :)
<hicham> I hope unity will get into fedora sometime
<hicham> there is no real blocker for now
<hicham> I am surprised by how big it is
<hicham> I have installed 12 packages now for basic functionality
<didrocks> hicham: yeah, it's very modular
<hicham> didrocks: how can I load newly installed indicators without restarting unity ?
<didrocks> hicham: you can't right now unfortunately
<AnAnt> am I asking in the right place ?
<mirac> hello
<mirac> I liked the interface naty
<mirac> Ubuntu how can I support  ?
<mirac> Ubuntu how can I support  ?
<aquarius> RAOF, ping?
<aquarius> ah, man, RAOF's in australia, isn't he?
<hicham> didrocks: where ubuntu_gtk_widget_set_has_grab is defined ?
<didrocks> hicham: it's a gtk patch (backported from gtk3.0)
<hicham> didrocks: bad news, indicator-datetime won't work in fedora
<hicham> indicator-datetime works
<hicham> but I can't seem to bet the menu on the panel
<henridv> hi all
<henridv> I'm new to unity hacking, and i'm looking on how to obtain the icon height in the launcher?
<NateW> anyone from the design team around?
<NateW> well, when an application is asking for attention. in the dash, the arrow turns blue showing that it needs attention.
<NateW> that is way too subtle in some cases.
<NateW> when im working, I usually don't wear my glasses and I have a 1920x1080 screen on a 15" laptop. this makes it almost impossible to tell which application is asking for attention
<NateW> instead, the app icon in the launcher should pulsate or do some sort of animation to make it more distinguishable
<nhaines> NateW: it does this for 1-2 seconds, then it turns blue after that.
<Saamm> can someone help me out...I made a custom launcher and changed icon image...but unity only shows default custom launcher image :(
<NateW> what turns blue? and also, the launcher is usually hidden because of a maximized window
<NateW> rhaines: this is what it is like for me. launcher is hidden, a blue triangle appears at the top left, i reveal the launcher and then have to search for what application is asking for attention
<nhaines> NateW: the little arrow turns blue.  When the launcher is hidden, the icon still slides out and shakes.
<NateW> you shouldn't have to look for the application
<NateW> it doesnt slide out here
<nhaines> The easiest way to demonstrate this is to have Firefox in the background, then click on a hyperlink in another window.
<jbicha> yes, I agree the blue arrow & the blue triangle are too small & subtle
<NateW> nhaines: that works.. but as an example, i was using firefox, and when you sent a message through irc here, empathy didnt pop out and shake
<nhaines> I wouldn't mind seeing a background color pulse similar to the fade-in and -out when you launch an app.
<NateW> thats what i'd like
<nhaines> NateW: that is by design in Empathy, I believe... the expected user behavior is to use the Messaging Menu.
<NateW> the messaging icon didnt turn blue either
<nhaines> I think applications can denote "notification" and "urgent notification" seperately.
<NateW> but back to the point i was originally bringing up.. there should be a bigger effect in the launcher
<NateW> such as the app backlight pulsing
<nhaines> NateW: file a bug and post it here.  I'll chime in and confirm it.
<NateW> sure.
<NateW> Here is the bug. Hopefully it's straight forward enough: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/760103
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 760103 in unity "Attention notification in the Unity launcher is too subtle" [Undecided,New]
<NateW> nhaines: ^^
<nhaines> NateW: thanks!
<nhaines> NateW: now we'll see what happens.
<NateW> nhaines: hopefully this gets fixed. it would make my life easier
<nhaines> NateW: I hear you.  I'm campaigning for 740515 myself.
<nhaines> Err, that's bug 740515.
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 740515 in unity (Ubuntu) "Window controls in Unity panel do not extend to top of display" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/740515
<NateW> that would also be nice
<NateW> but i usually find myself using alt+f4 for exiting, and using the grid plugin for maximizing and i dont minimize
<nhaines> I usually do Alt-Space, x to maxmize/unmaximize.
<nhaines> But if I'm mousing around by the Application Menua anyway, it'd be nice.
<kim0> Guys bug 750464 has been proposed for merging with bug 486154, but they don't seem the same to me
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 750464 in unity (Ubuntu) "beep sound is muted under unity (dup-of: 486154)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/750464
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 486154 in metacity (Ubuntu) "System beep broken in Karmic despite heroic efforts to fix it" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/486154
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 486154 in metacity (Ubuntu) "System beep broken in Karmic despite heroic efforts to fix it" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/486154
<kim0> Unity by design doesn't handle xkb bell event .. while the old bug was about metacity having problems emitting a beep sound
<Saamm> is there a way to minimize pulse time on unity launcher?
<Saamm> I have dragged a custom launcher on unity launcher...once i click it, it keep on pulsating for 5 seconds so I cannot do two clicks in succession. How to solce this?
<RAOF> aquarius: Correct!  00:36 is not a good time to get me :)
<kais58> what would the equivelant of "gnome-session-save --logout" be for unity?
#ayatana 2011-04-14
<RAOF> kais58: gnome-session-save --logout :)
<RAOF> (Unity *is* a GNOME session âº)
<kais58> but does it report as gnome or unity in $DESKTOP_SESSION?
<kais58> ok, thanks theres something else wrong with this script then
<kais58> oh, and another thing, is it possible to lock the menu bar?
 * RAOF is not sure what you mean by âmenu barâ
<hicham> how to get the menus on the panel ?
<RAOF> hicham: As in the global menu bar?
<hicham> RAOF: show the menu bar on the panel
<hicham> RAOF: yes
<hicham> RAOF: how do I enable that ?
<kais58> the thing on the left that slides out
<RAOF> kais58: That's referred to as âthe launcherâ, and you can change its autohide behaviour in CompizConfig Settings Manager - look for the Unity plugin.
<hicham> RAOF: I installed indicator-application, but no go
<RAOF> hicham: From memory, you need a GTK patch to enable the functionality, have a GTK module loaded to actually export the menus, and then there's something like a unity-panel-service on the other end to draw them in unity.
<hicham> RAOF: where can I find that patch ?
<RAOF> In Ubuntu's GTK packages, certainly; I'm not sure where else.
<hicham> so only gtk software can draw the menu on the panel ?
<RAOF> hicham: No, I believe Qt can too.
<RAOF> hicham: I don't think athena apps can, though :)
<hicham> RAOF: are you a unity dev ?
<RAOF> No.
<Th3Pr0ph3t> Greetings, I think I have discovered a way to make compiz crash like crazy...
<Th3Pr0ph3t> Opening ccsm: Window Decorations
<Omega> Submit a bug report.
<Th3Pr0ph3t> sure ^_^
<hicham> just enable/disable Window Decorations ?
<RAOF> There's a known crasher when enabling or disabling plugins with the Unity plugin loaded (that's really annoying!)
<Th3Pr0ph3t> no, I was explaining but yes, a bug report is more reasonable
<Th3Pr0ph3t> so I'll report a bug (what was I thinking :$)
<aquarius> RAOF, heya. I just wanted to let you know; since upgrading yesterday to the latest everything, the compiz hanging in __poll problem has got a lot, lot worse -- compiz has hung, needing killing, fourteen times today so far :(
<RAOF>  !!!
<aquarius> yeah. It's, shall we say, quite annoying :)
<RAOF> aquarius: :(.  DBO worked around one extremely common manifestation of that bug.
<aquarius> it *seems* to be related to new windows opening, or chromium, or both, but I don't have any real evidence for that
<RAOF> Well, I'm gdb-ing both sides of the compiz/X connection; hopefully that'll provide a useful pointer.
<RAOF> The testcases that I've tried to build haven't managed to reproduce the problem so far.
<aquarius> cool. I was in two minds about whether to mention it, since I don't have anything useful to add other than just to be whiny about it, but I thought you might want to know :)
<DBO> RAOF, howdy
<RAOF> DBO: Hey, ho.  Sigh.
<DBO> i am not a ho
<DBO> RAOF, any luck?
<RAOF> DBO: Appologies.  The OOM killer decided to wander in.
<DBO> its okay
<DBO> so, any luck?
<RAOF> DBO: Not just yet, sorry.
<RAOF> GAH!  Stupid damned âvalue optimized outâ
<DBO> cant you compile it to not do that?
<DBO> -O0
<DBO> RAOF, do you have any theories?
<RAOF> My current theory is that (one of) compiz's Xserver client is being throttled by the server, possibly pending a reply on one of compiz' other clients.
<DBO> why would the server throttle compiz?
<RAOF> Compiz does a bunch of DRI2 stuff that results in a client getting throttled.
<RAOF> As in: by *design* a bunch of the DRI2 calls throttle the client until $CONDITION.
<RAOF> Things like DRI2WaitMSC, for example.
<RAOF> But!  That should only effect that particular connection, not compiz' other connections.
<DBO> well are we sure the hang happens on non-compiz connections?
<RAOF> As in: on compiz' gtk connection?
<DBO> yeah
<DBO> how do you know which connection is what?
<RAOF> By the magic of printf "Connection: %p",dpy :)
<RAOF> But you're right; that doesn't make it clear whether it's GTK's connection or not.
<RAOF> But I believe maximise hang *was* gtk's connection, because it was going through gdk_do_stuff.
<DBO> yeah but how many connections were you seeing
<DBO> I hear rumors that gtk actually grabs the "default connection"
<DBO> which I didn't even know what possible
<RAOF> Oh.
<RAOF> I was *seeing* 2 connections.
<DBO> you were only ever seeing 2 connections?
<DBO> i mean the compiz one should be easy to spot
<DBO> it does fuckloads of stuff
<RAOF> Right.
<RAOF> I was only checking in the Undecorate() case, so I could have missed one of the connections.
<DBO> ah
<DBO> RAOF, is it possible that the dri2 call throttles ALL x calls until some other call is made?
<RAOF> A quick bit of gdberry says: yes, compiz has at least 3 display connections.
<RAOF> DBO: Yes and no.  It *does* throttle all X calls *made by that client* , but compiz has 3 distinct clients happening.
<RAOF> (One X client per X connection)
<DBO> well thats weird
<RAOF> That's not exactly been an uncommon phrase :)
<DBO> RAOF, look if you have managed to find internet in the sunken continent of Australia, I am sure you can find this bug :)
<RAOF> Yeah.  Let's play âwatch the X server and compiz at the same time to match up display connections!â
<RAOF> This will be *fun*!
<DBO> this is a team activity
<DBO> we need to get this up on a projector
<DBO> and then do it that way :P
<soreau> Can anyone running compiz/unity test amsn? Another user showed it crashes compiz on opensuse 11.4 and it happens here too on maverick
<soreau> It crashes compiz, then after restarting compiz, the windows are the smallest they can be, like a vertical line the height of the decorator
<soreau> Here is his backtrace http://pastebin.com/Q64yxcdC
<soreau> And the one I get here http://sprunge.us/YURQ
 * RAOF breaks out the notepad to keep track of display connections.
<soreau> I was wondering if there's any other apps that use wish to test with, but I couldn't google it because 'wish' is a really bad name for a program :P
<soreau> Does this happen on natty too? (I'm about to test)
<RAOF> Wow.  How many connections does compiz actually open!
<DBO> RAOF, i dont know
<DBO> should be 1
<DBO> then 1 for nux
<DBO> then 1 for gdk
<RAOF> Starting compiz seems to cause about 8 connections to be opened.  I'm not sure where :)
<DBO> really...
<DBO> are you check to see if some of them dont quickly die?
<RAOF> Oh, some of them probably *do* quickly die.
<RAOF> I think you're right in that the compiz process calls XOpenDisplay 3 times.
<RAOF> Bah.  Maybe some tea will make this less annoying.
<RAOF> For comparison: starting gnome-screensaver-preferences results in 7 calls to AllocNewConnection :)
<DBO> O_o
<DBO> so at that rate we should be able to open *counts* 24 applications
<DBO> RAOF, do X connections even communicate their parent process?
<DBO> RAOF, can X tell that one app opened multiple X connections?
<RAOF> DBO: It can, I think, but it currently doesn't.
<RAOF> It would make it easier if it did, because then I could just filter out all the connections which don't have compiz on the other end!
<DBO> ha
<RAOF> Oh, would you believe it?  Geis also opens a display connection.
<DBO> wtf
<DBO> why would it do that...
<DBO> it has its own fd
<DBO> so we are using 4 of the 256 X connections
<DBO> if every application starts using geis, each app uses 2
<DBO> so thats immediately down to what, 126 application instances?
<DBO> god thats dumb
<RAOF> Yay (small) arbitrary limits!
<RAOF> Ok.  Now I know all the connections on both sides: which Display in the compiz process corresponds to which Client in X.
<DBO> awesome
<RAOF> Ok.  So, as expected, Compiz' client is getting blocked all the time; each time it calls WaitMSC.
<RAOF> Man, it does that a lot.
<RAOF> At 60Hz, in fact :)
<DBO> so, every draw
<DBO> what does that clal do?
<RAOF> DBO - it's the âwait for vblankâ call.
<DBO> oh
<DBO> then yeah
<DBO> that makes sense
<RAOF> It does indeed.
<DBO> but that call should just block right?
<RAOF> From the X protocol side of things - no.
<RAOF> I'm not sure if libGL wraps it so it blocks.
<RAOF> It *will* block any further X commands, though.
<DBO> i thought it blocked to be honest
<RAOF> libGL might turn it into a blocking request.
<DBO> does disabling the sync to vblank fix the freeze for you?
<DBO> that would disable that call
<RAOF> I don't know.  However, I've got it to freeze in Undecorate again, and none of the clients are actually ignored, so it doesn't appear to be that.
<DBO> does X actually send a reply back?
<RAOF> For WaitMSC?
<RAOF> Yes, but the reply is the current MSC data.
<DBO> RAOF, no when it blocks
<DBO> so it blocks in poll right
<RAOF> Right.
<DBO> so does X actually send a reply back
<RAOF> Well, it doesn't appear to; it's blocked in poll :).  I'm scooting through the X-side client to see what's what.
<RAOF> Hm.  The gdk client has some input.
<DBO> RAOF, so you are saying its gdk's fault
<RAOF> Sorry.  The X server's client corresponding to gdk's Display has some input.  I'm not sure if that's expected, though.
<DBO> when it freezes?
<RAOF> Yeah.
<DBO> could it be that xcb_wait_for_reply fails if there is already stuff n the queue???
 * DBO gives RAOF the keg of glory
<RAOF> Good.  And, just to check, the all of compiz's clients *actually* have different fds :)
<DBO> RAOF, do me a favor, when you call it quite today
<DBO> if I am not online by that time (probably wont be considering time zones)
<DBO> can you email me a quickie status report?
<RAOF> DBO: Certainly.
<DBO> RAOF, nothing interesting yet? :(
<RAOF> Not apart from EVERYTHING SEEMS TO BE OK, GODDAMNIT.
<DBO> I am wondering if its not possible to make XCB just gracefully fail
<DBO> i mean its stupid to just poll forect
<DBO> forever
<RAOF> That's a breaking ABI change, though.
<RAOF> What are appse going to do inresponse?
<RAOF> Mmmm, IRC lag.
<DBO> every major call *already* has a fail condition
<DBO> like XGetWindowProperty for instance
<DBO> *can* fail
<RAOF> Apart from the bit where it DOESN'T WORK.
<DBO> yeah this is fucked up
<RAOF> Hm.  Aâ¦ 3 minute IRC lag :)
<RAOF> That was from my other system.
<DBO> O_o
<DBO> RAOF, you'll fix it :) I have faith
<DBO> and if you don't
<DBO> well, thats what fire was made for
<RAOF> :)
<RAOF> A superior being such as myself has only one option: burn them.
<DBO> actually we will just have to collect ever condition this happens in
<DBO> and juggle which x connection gets used
<DBO> OH!
<RAOF> To avoid the madness.  Yah.
<DBO> interesting fact I found
<DBO> I forgot about this till now
<DBO> might be relevant
<DBO> we had a similar issue to this in nux once
<DBO> basically what would happen is nux would lock up just like this
<RAOF> This does sound interesting, yes.
<DBO> it calls XQueryKeymap or some shit when it processes events
<DBO> so its all normal when it's just nux
<DBO> but it started screwing up when we began processing events that came from compiz
<DBO> after looking at it more, we determined that by using the Display provided by the XEvent, the locking stopped
<DBO> no idea why
<RAOF> Yeah, that's going to be the same problem.
<RAOF> Or, probably is.
<DBO> yeah
<DBO> but it somehow has to do with using X calls from a different Display when compiz is processing events
<DBO> the fix for the maximize issue was pretty simple
<RAOF> However - if you write a small testcase that does nothing but call XGetWindowProperty on Display x in response to PropertyNotify on Display y then you won't lock up.
<DBO> all I did was make it use the compiz display
<DBO> yes I imagine it must be somehow in response to what compiz is doing when processing events
<RAOF> Yeah.
<DBO> okay I know I am just kinda throwing random shit out there right now
<DBO> but lets assume for the moment that the issue is some X call compiz is making somewhere
<DBO> the most logical thing to do is to slim down compiz *as much as possible*
<DBO> so disable every plugin you can but still have unity running
<DBO> then see if it still happens
<DBO> you probably already did that
<RAOF> Actually, I didn't.
<RAOF> Because it crashes each time I want to disable a plugin :)
<DBO> yes, start metacity
<DBO> THEN do the plugin juggle
<DBO> then restart compiz
<DBO> RAOF, okay if I dont go to bed now i am going to be murdered by a small blonde woman
<RAOF> DBO: Go to your mistress!  I can hold the fort here :)
<DBO> while this would indeed be a net win for the world, it would be a decided net loss for me
<oSoMoN> good morning
<RAOF> Whaaargfl.  You think you have identified some interesting behaviour, but then when you look it's gone away!
<MacSlow> greetings everybody
<didrocks> good morning
<ssn> hi guys. in my natty installation, my laptops touchpad is mistaken for a touchscreen (absolute vs relative). how do i change this and how do i report this bug?
<danyR> njpatel: hi. I've a question: does unity update launcher's icons on-the-fly (i.e., if there have been changes on the desktop file)?
<njpatel> No, I don't believe that works this cycle
<danyR> njpatel: ah, bummer. otherwise it would be really easy to create a little neat weather-checking application.
<njpatel> heh, indeed
<njpatel> danyR, it's probably a good feature to have if your interested in working on it
<njpatel> GFileMonitor makes it easier than you'd think it would be
<om26er> njpatel, Hi! do you think bug 722178 is bitesizeable? for your convenience see https://launchpadlibrarian.net/64772865/Screenshot.png the window title is being cut by the invisible systray, as the problem does not happen when skype is running.
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 722178 in unity (Ubuntu) "window's title does not fade in the right position" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/722178
<njpatel> om26er, yeah, bitesizable
<om26er> thx
<vish> njpatel , om26er: isnt that by design?
<vish> or should that be even closer to the indicator?
<om26er> vish, hmm no it is supposed to fade at the very end
<njpatel> I don't think the extra space is by design
<vish> ah!
<kenvandine> ted, what's in your queue for releases today?
<tedg_> kenvandine, Still building that list, but for sure indicator-application, dbusmenu and indicator-datetime.
<tedg_> kenvandine, I think that there's a indicator-appmenu patch as well.
<tedg_> kenvandine, Lots of little fixes all over the place.
<seb128> indicator-session has a g_error turning to g_warning, appmenu-gtk for the desktop menu race
<om26er> good morning lamalex
<lamalex> hey om26er
<lamalex> how's it going
<om26er> everything's great
<om26er> lamalex, there are a lot of bugs like bug 752157 for AMD open-source driver, is it under someone's radar?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 752157 in unity (Ubuntu) "graphical corruption in launcher" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/752157
<om26er> for ref https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/752157/+attachment/1986199/+files/corruption.png
<om26er> this white corruption have been there from the inception of compiz unity iirc
<lamalex> om26er, i usually assign jaytaoko
<kim0> After 2 days of usage, Xorg is constantly taking ~25% cpu .. Everything feels slower (switching windows, gnome-terminal tabs, thunderbird messages...etc) .. Does this qualify as a bug of unity?
<BigWhale> Greetings
<BigWhale> when I install an application manually to /opt/foo or whatever, how do I make it appear in Application lens?
<BigWhale> there used to be menu editor... (which I noticed is still present, but has no effect...)
<kim0> BigWhale: wild guess .. would creating a .desktop file for it help
<kim0> woah! unity --reset   really helps
<BigWhale> kim0, probably, but where to put it?
<Matso> Hi i relly like the new ui. the only thing i dont like about unity is where you have put the launcher. it would be way better if you would have made it like docky.  best regards
<Mikoar> I enabled magic lamp effect for minimizing in Unity, but it doesn't work.
<Mikoar> Please help
<Mikoar> Other effects do work however
<Mikoar> like shadows for windows
<BigWhale> A question! How do I run something from Applications as root? AMD Control Center in this particular case.
<vish> BigWhale: gksudo before the application command
<vish> so it would be $ gksudo AMDWHATEVER
<BigWhale> Uhm... Not from the terminal. I know how to do that... :)
<BigWhale> I was thinking more of a CTRL+SHIFT+CLICK on the icon
<vish> BigWhale: edit the launcher properties :D
 * BigWhale sighs.
<BigWhale> I though so
<BigWhale> I'll go file a feature request
<vish> BigWhale: in Unity?
<BigWhale> yes
<vish> BigWhale: it would be more of a bug in AMD Control Center, because it does not run as root
<vish> not a bug in Unity
<BigWhale> Uhm
<BigWhale> what if I want to run nautilus as root?
<vish> not something that is advisable unless you know what you are doing ;)
<BigWhale> Yes, I know that.
<vish> ie: should not be as easy as just ctrl+shift+click
<vish>  making such things easy is a recipe for disaster
<BigWhale> If there's a popup that tells you "YOU'RE GOING TO HELL ... etc etc" I see no reason why not ...
<vish> yea, a popup like that would be awesome.
<BigWhale> It really is annoying sometimes that you HAVE to open terminal or fumble around with ALT-F2 and gksudo especially if you don't know the command name :)
<vish> mpt: not fair! you dint file this bug! Â» http://twitter.com/#!/mptbugs/status/58580035749167104  /me unfollows
<mpt> vish, blame Launchpad, it's just syndicating http://feeds.launchpad.net/~mpt/latest-bugs.atom
<vish> ha!
<vish> almost always if something is wrong in Ubuntu, there will be LP to blame somewhere.. ;p
<mpt> One of these decades, Nautilus will integrate PolicyKit for admin actions, so nobody ever wants to run Nautilus as root any more
<BigWhale> Hmm, I wonder if this bug for dev build chromium is related to unity or not ... I can't drag tab from one window to another
<vish> One of these decades, file-managing will become redundant and we will have no use for Nautilus ;)
<om26er> gord, Hi! will the fix to bug 741584 (targetted for next release) also fix 752727 or both a different ?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 741584 in unity (Ubuntu) "Selecting a different lens should open it, instead of closing the current lens" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/741584
<om26er> bug 752727
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 752727 in unity (Ubuntu) "Cannot switch to different dash modes once open" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/752727
<htorque> loicm: hi, should your work on the ccsm plugin crasher already fix something? i'm at nux r330 and unity r1141 and still getting the crashes.
<zniavre> http://imgur.com/5xKUz.png   there is a bug with prelight of application selected items
<zniavre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/761201
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 761201 in unity (Ubuntu) "prelight of items in dash" [Undecided,New]
<zniavre> the title and details are not well describe but the screenshot is clear (sorry )
<BigWhale> Funny, If I run an openGL game that switches to full screen AMD driver will display two big red boxes with number 1 and 2 on each of my monitors.
#ayatana 2011-04-15
<RAOF> DBO: Woot!  I have an identifiable difference in the working/not working case - the set of server reads/writes to the gdk client is different when it breaks.
<RAOF> (When it hangs in Undecorate, the i/o is missing an Xserver read from the gdk client)
<Saamm> I updated unity to 3.8.8 and now search from dash has stop working
<Saamm> I found a pattern for this problem...As soon as you log in, search from dash does not work. But once you try searching in any files or places lens, search starts working in dash as well
<Omega> Daekdroom: ping
<Daekdroom> Omega, pong
<Daekdroom> Yeah, I know, 10 minutes late.
<FloatingGoat> hi unity people
<FloatingGoat> I love unity
<Omega> FloatingGoat: Unity loves you <3
<FloatingGoat> haha
<FloatingGoat> by the way unity 2D developers are doing a fantastic job
<FloatingGoat> one thing I am missing from the original version of unity 2d, though, is when you searched for an application with the dash, even if it wasn't installed, it popped up.
<FloatingGoat> but its fine, I can just go to the applications lense. :)
<FloatingGoat> in the "launchers and menus" it says "show the launcher when the pointer; pushes the left side of the screen, touches the top left of the screen" now even though I have the first option checked off, it still only shows the launcher when I touch the top left.
<FloatingGoat> is unity going to have regular updates even after natty final?
<FloatingGoat> hmmm, what version of unity comes with ubuntu 11.04 beta 2?
<FloatingGoat> unity 2D *
<RAOF> HAH!  Compiz has a server grab!
<RAOF> Which is why switching the Display that you call stuff on to the Compiz Display works!
<RAOF> DBO: We may have a winner!
<RAOF> DBO: If you happen to be online at 10pm :)
<DBO> RAOF!!!!
<DBO> where is compiz getting a server grab from?
<DBO> I looked for that
<RAOF> I don't know yet.
<RAOF> But I've got compiz to wedge in poll from gdk_window_set_mwm_hints, and there's an active server grab.
<DBO> XGrabDisplay...
<DBO> XLockDisplay I mean
<Omega> What the reason that unity and gnome-shell currently can't live side by side?
<DBO> Omega, different base level library versions
<RAOF> Actually, that's not strictly speaking true; there's a *pending* server grab; serverGrab is GrabKickout, which indicates that someone has called XGrabServer but it hasn't yet finished being processed.
<DBO> Unity is built on an older set of g* libraries than gnome shell is
<FloatingGoat> Omega: haven't tried gnome shell, I like unity though.
<FloatingGoat> cant wait for the next version of unity 2D.
<Omega> Ah, DBO are you guys planning on porting to the newer version for another release?
<Daekdroom> GTK3 for the win!
<Daekdroom> How does GTK2 compare to GTK3 anyway? I know 3 deprecated some stuff and such, but does it improve anything?
<Omega> Except for their new "hardware-like toggle"
<DBO> Daekdroom, not much improvement yet
<DBO> Omega, so Unity gets built on whatever set of libraries are released at the time Ubuntu goes into library freeze
<DBO> or whatever we call it
<DBO> GNOME Shell continued to update their base library requirements long after that
<DBO> and thus the runtime requirements for GNOME Shell are not in Ubuntu
<Daekdroom> DBO, even if GTK3 was released in time, wouldn't all GTK2 apps have to be ported?
<DBO> yes
<Daekdroom> The LiveCD can't fit GTK2 and 3
<DBO> nothing is ported yet anyhow
<Daekdroom> Early Oneiric is going to be such a breakage in that matter..
<DBO> RAOF, so if I were to call XGrabServer, then XUngrabServer
<DBO> then made an X call on another display...
<DBO> could *that* cause this?
<RAOF> DBO: It *shouldn't*
<DBO> so what you're saying is somehow we are getting
<RAOF> I guess unless the connection hasn't been flushed.
<Omega> DBO: So, it would be possible to have a ppa with gnome-shell and a glib3 unity?
<DBO> XGrabServer (display1); XSomething(display2) LOCK; and then the code is theoretically going to call XUngrabServer (display1)
<DBO> Omega, we would have to make changes to unity
<DBO> so not easily no
<Omega> Ah
<Omega> Well, good night!
<DBO> RAOF, so what, call XFlush whenever you XGrab/UngrabServer
<RAOF> As far as I can tell, the X server's current state is: A client has called XGrabServer(), which has set grabState to KickOut.  But that hasn't actually been *processed* yet, because we're waiting in WaitForSomething()
<RAOF> This doesn't make a lot of sense.
<DBO> well, there are not *that* many XGrabServer's in compiz
<DBO> RAOF, maybe something like this is going
<DBO> CompizDisplay calls XGrab then XUngrab server, commands are sitting in FD
<DBO> gdk make X call
<DBO> X begins processing calls, processes XGrabServer, then the X call from gdk comes in, it blocks
<cjohnston> who is responsible for unity.ubuntu.com?
<DBO> but then the XUngrab would still be in teh queue
<DBO> cjohnston, why?
<DBO> I think Jono and Jorge
<cjohnston> there are some issues with the site
<DBO> what kind of issues?
<cjohnston> its using the wrong favicon, the main-nav color is wrong
<FloatingGoat> is there any way i can change unity 2D auto hide manually?
<FloatingGoat> so apparently typing unity into the terminal herp derps everything, ill take not of that
<DBO> FloatingGoat, dont know anything about unity2d to be honest
<FloatingGoat> DBO
<FloatingGoat> I cant run 3D :(
<DBO> why not?
<DBO> 3d is where its AT
<FloatingGoat> I dont got proprietary drivers for my card :'
<FloatingGoat> :'(
<DBO> what card?
<FloatingGoat> ATI raedon 7200
<DBO> O_O
<FloatingGoat> even though I can to all the snazzy effects like teh cube and stuff
<DBO> maybe you should spend 5 bucks and get an upgrade
<FloatingGoat> no unity 4 me :'(
<FloatingGoat> DBO
<FloatingGoat> I only have an AGP port on this mobo
<DBO> so you can pick up a radeon 9800 pro
<DBO> for 5 bucks
<FloatingGoat> hmm
<FloatingGoat> what will that give me?
<DBO> hopefully, unity
<FloatingGoat> proprietary drivers? (HAPPY FACE)
<FloatingGoat> AGP? (MOAR HAPPY FACE)
<DBO> wow video cards are huge these days
<DBO> wow
<DBO> newegg still sells AGP video cards
<FloatingGoat> hmm it seems as though the one you linked to my is 67 more dollars than you predicted
<DBO> haha
<DBO> yeah it is
<DBO> the cheapest upgrade for you I see is this
<DBO> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125249
<DBO> email them and offer them 20 bucks
<DBO> see what happens
<DBO> dual head: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130465
<DBO> double the VRAM: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133328
<DBO> $30 after mail in rebate: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130452
<FloatingGoat> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814134076
<FloatingGoat> you are opening my eyes to new opportunities that I have not seen be fore
<FloatingGoat> are these all ubuntu compatible?
<FloatingGoat> with nice drivers for gaming and all?
<DBO> the nvidia ones get a 6xxx or newer
<DBO> ati I can check with
<DBO> ati I think supports only back to like the HD 3xxx series
<DBO> so they dropped AGP support from the fglrx driver
<FloatingGoat> interesting
<FloatingGoat> it seems as though i am running a mixture of unity 3D and 2D
<FloatingGoat> odd
<RAOF> Bah.  The dispatch code is not a model of clarity and poise.
<FloatingGoat> DBO: hey, what is the best AGP that i can get with full ubuntu compatibility?
<DBO> FloatingGoat, let me looks for you
<FloatingGoat> DBO: thank you friend
<DBO> FloatingGoat, this would be a killer upgrade: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125281
<DBO> and I was wrong, that is fglrx compliant
<DBO> RAOF, any clues?
<FloatingGoat> DBO that runs on the same port as my current
<FloatingGoat> O.O
<FloatingGoat> ?
<RAOF> I don't yet see how X can block in WaitForSomething *and* have grabState == GrabKickout *and* know that there's a client that wants to be processed.
<RAOF> As far as I can tell, the client that wants to be processed should cause WaitForSomething to return, then the dispatch loop should see GrabKickout, change it to GrabActive, and then halt processing of the client's commands.
<DBO> I wonder why we even call XGrabServer...
<RAOF> That's a fair question :)
<RAOF> It appears to be to ensure you get atomic state.
<DBO> okay the one in screen.cpp probably doesn't matter
<DBO> that only happens on init
<DBO> the one in compWindow does it a LOT
<RAOF> Yes.
<RAOF> You know, in addition to trying to understand this, I might just throw an XSync() after each X{Grab,Ungrab}Server and see what happens.
<FloatingGoat> DBO, so that last one you linked works with linux?
<DBO> FloatingGoat, the best person in the world to ask is right here with us
<DBO> RAOF, yeah do that
<DBO> lets see what happens
<DBO> RAOF, also can you confirm for FloatingGoat that this card will work with Natty: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125281
<RAOF> Should work fine with both the open source drivers and the proprietary drivers.
<FloatingGoat> that lin is herp derpin everything
<RAOF> Bah!  Could X please have fewer crazyarse macros?
<DBO> RAOF, no
<DBO> my reddit lens is so awesome
<ajmitch> DBO: a reddit lens? that's worrying :)
<DBO> no sir
<DBO> its awesome
<ajmitch> I must see this
<DBO> just dont type anything into it that you dont want rule-34'd
 * ajmitch has made a brief start on a launchpad lens
<ajmitch> hah
<DBO> http://i.imgur.com/yNjY0.jpg
<DBO> not complete yet
<DBO> its at lp:reddit-lens
<ajmitch> I shall have to try that this evening
<DBO> I am going to make the search box say "Narwhals and Bacon" by default
<DBO> its only right for reddit
<ajmitch> true
<DBO> also, got my first 100 link karma
<DBO> at long last!
<FloatingGoat> okay back
<FloatingGoat> ever since I clicked that link everything derped to the herp
<DBO> derping the herpa derpa
<FloatingGoat> DBO why isnt that card on this list? :'( http://support.amd.com/us/gpudownload/Pages/index.aspx
<DBO> i dont know really
<FloatingGoat> http://www.gigabyte.us/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3088#dl doesnt look to be there either
<DBO> it really should be supported
<DBO> RAOF, how does the XSync love go?
<RAOF> DBO: Built and trying it now.
<RAOF> nb: dpkg isn't any faster on a 4-disc btrfs raid than it is on a 1-disc btrfs system.
<DBO> isn't that largely due to btrfs still being shit?
<RAOF> Yes it is.
<RAOF> Apparently on non-rotating media it's not a pile of fail.
<RAOF> So they say.
<FloatingGoat> guys I have a joke
<DBO> i thought it was a pile of fail everywhere
<FloatingGoat> okay, you got fresh a mac install, and fresh ubuntu install, no internet. who writes a paper faster? oh wait.. that's right, macs don't come with a word processor XD
 * DBO is not entirely convinced handwriting is slower than open office
<FloatingGoat> libreoffice*
<FloatingGoat> i've done all my projects for school with open office, no hassle
<RAOF> DBO: XSync looks to be good; I'll keep maximising/restoring for another couple of minutes to be sure.
<DBO> RAOF, okay perfect
<DBO> ship it!
<DBO> so XSync at the end of any method that grabs/ungrabs the server
<DBO> then call it good?
<RAOF> Actually, I'm just calling XSync immediately after every grab/ungrab call.
<RAOF> I'd also like to work out what's *actually* going wrong, though :)
<FloatingGoat> so i can get ubuntu CD's from local people now?
<FloatingGoat> how do i find my loco team?
<DBO> RAOF, wouldn't it work just to do it at the end of the responsible methods?
<RAOF> DBO: Maybe? :)
<RAOF> Hey, there's a fun bug!  Each restore/maximise cycle moves the window ~1px to the right!
<DBO> :P
<RAOF> Ok.  That's enough clicking.
<RAOF> I'm going to declare the XSync a success.
 * DBO hugs RAOF
<DBO> thank you for doing that RAOF
<DBO> I owe you beer
<RAOF> No problem :)
<DBO> (but I am still going to call you Fabio)
<RAOF> Well, I do have /fabulous/ hair!
<RAOF> Would you like what I've got, or a sync-at-end-of-method test?
<DBO> sync at end
<bitshifternz> If I wanted to attach to unity with gdb and add some breakpoints, what's the best way to go about that?
<bitshifternz> ssh from another machine?
<RAOF> Switch to a VT and run gdb from there should work.
<RAOF> It's not like X where VT switching makes signals happen :)
<bitshifternz> of course if I want to trigger a breakpoint by doing something in unity I'll need a 2nd machine right? Do I need debug symbols for compiz or anything?
<RAOF> You'll want debug symbols for compiz, yeah.
<RAOF> You shouldn't need a second machine (although that might make it easier) - just trigger what you want to happen, the screen will freeze, and switch back to the VT with gdb.
<bitshifternz> is there a deb with those or build it locally?
<RAOF> (Nearly) Every binary package in the archive has a -dbgsym package associated with it, containing the debugging symbols.
 * DBO looks at RAOF
<bitshifternz> cheers. and I just attach to the compiz process?
<RAOF> bitshifternz: Indeedy.
<RAOF> DBO: Sync at end semes to work, too.
<DBO> WEWT!
 * DBO goes to yell it from the mountain
<DBO> lets get sam to patch that shit!
<RAOF> DBO: Go to bed :).  I'll run some extra checks, like ensuring I can still reproduce it *without* the XSyncs and stuff. :)
<bitshifternz> uptil now I've been using g_debug messages to debug. gets painful quickly
<DBO> RAOF, not until the ball is rolling to get this from this point out to users
<DBO> this bug is teh last thing that I consider a "blocker" for unity
<DBO> bitshifternz, what are you debugging?
 * RAOF should really have written a program to repeatedly maximize/restore a window :)
<bitshifternz> nothing right now, I'm at work. But I was trying to make focus respect minimised windows.
<bitshifternz> If you click on an app that has multiple windows then minimise all it's windows and click the launcher icon again, it should spread I think, but it doesn't it just unminimises everything again
<bitshifternz> I was wanting to look into that amongst other things
<RAOF> Ok.  Can reproduce without the XSyncs, can't reproduce with the XSyncs.
<RAOF> smspillaz|z: Be more paranoid about XGrabServer :)
<DBO> RAOF, can you email the dx team list your findings?
<RAOF> DBO: Email is dx@lists.ubuntu.com?
<DBO> dx-team@lists.launchpad.net
<RAOF> Or ayatana-dev@lists.ubuntu.com?  I'll certainly do that for you.
<DBO> you are not a dx member?
<DBO> cc me, neil, and sam, just in case the dx list hates on you
<DBO> RAOF, if it means anything
<DBO> I am now looking through other codebases which use XGrabServer
<DBO> and they all XSync after
<DBO> RAOF, I am going to go now, before I never get to have sex again
<DBO> well... you know, except with Neil
<RAOF> DBO: :P
<RAOF> DBO: Sleep well.
<DBO> but please do send that email
<RAOF> DBO: It's underway.
<DBO> RAOF, just so you know, I never got an email from you
<DBO> you might want to check your address book for me
<DBO> typo?
<RAOF> Jason.Smith@canonical.com, right?
<RAOF> That was just me making a typo before :)
<RAOF> In IRC.
<RAOF> Urgh.  Sorry for that.
<DBO> yeah
<DBO> I dont know why your emails never reach me
<DBO> maybe it's just not meant to be
<DBO> RAOF, i *just* got your email from yesterday
<DBO> AWESOME
<RAOF> YAY EVOLUTION!
<RAOF> How about *today's* email?
<manveru> heya
<manveru> anybody here knows the easiest way to try unity on archlinux?
<RAOF> Fire up the browser and download an Ubuntu live cd? :)
<manveru> heh
<RAOF> But if you wanted to package it or grab it for arch (which definitely *won't* be the easiest way âº) you'll need to walk the dependency stack.
<RAOF> That'll be *indicat*, the GTK patches, dbusmenu, etc.
<manveru> hm
<manveru> http://unity.ubuntu.com/ and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ayatana don't point to any iso
<manveru> oh, ubuntu itself?
<RAOF> Yeah, ubuntu itself.
<didrocks> good morning
<MacSlow> hi there everbody
<didrocks> hey MacSlow!
<oSoMoN> good morning
<MacSlow> hey oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> hey MacSlow!
<zniavre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/761201
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 761201 in unity (Ubuntu) "prelight of items in dash" [Undecided,New]
<zniavre> you should check the screenshot i did not know good words to explain the small bug
<manveru> hm
<manveru> i don't think that was unity...
<manveru> looked just like gnome 2
<zniavre> alt+f2 does not working anymore
<cdbs> zniavre: working in my case
<cdbs> zniavre: Can you try running ps aux | grep unity-applications-daemon and pastebin the output?
<zniavre> with today s update ?
<cdbs> zniavre: yes
<zniavre> for sure wait  a sec
<zniavre> !paste
<ubot5> For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://imagebin.org/?page=add | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
<zniavre> http://paste.ubuntu.com/594383/
<zniavre> ho sorry it works again ....
 * zniavre slaps himself with a large trout
<LLStarks> not good. dash is hanging forever with 3.8.8
<LLStarks> not hanging, but not handling queries or commands
<zniavre> :o)
<zniavre> i just asked for that and few sec after it works as a miracle
<LLStarks> zeitgeist better not be borked
<didrocks> LLStarks: can you exit the dash
<didrocks> LLStarks: then, click on the button (rather than pressing super)
<didrocks> does it work now?
<didrocks> cdbs: I think I have a fix
<didrocks> just building :)
<didrocks> (will backport to natty today)
<didrocks> cdbs: do you think you will be able to fix bug #761201 in the couple of coming hours? (I want to sneak the fix in before the week-end)
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 761201 in unity (Ubuntu) "In dash search filter drop box, black text is on a black background when item is selected" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/761201
<manveru> oh, unity needs 3d?
<manveru> well, would've been nice to know before i downloaded the iso :)
<kamstrup> manveru: there is a 2d version as well, from a ppa
<kamstrup> manveru: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity2D
<rye> hi, is it ok that windows are maximized at another workspace if they are more than half (in any direction) off the screen of the current one?
<didrocks> cdbs: around?
<SNail_> hi
<SNail_> my Unity 2D panel in VirtualBox look like Windows 98
<SNail_> what can i do to fix it?
<manveru> you want win xp?
<FloatingGoat> SNail_: try installing guest additions
<SNail_> FloatingGoat: ok. thank you )
<FloatingGoat> SNail_: you're welcome. :)
<SNail_> manveru: no. my main OS is Windows 7 because i use .NET Framework for my job.
<FloatingGoat> wubi>?
<cdbs> didrocks: back
<cdbs> didrocks: sorry, had gone for friday prayers
<cdbs> didrocks: snatch it away! no problem
<didrocks> cdbs: no worry, gord fixed it already :)
<SNail_> FloatingGoat: installing guest additions don't fix my problem.
<JarekJ83> hi there
<JarekJ83> i have a question bout Ubuntu Unity..is there gonna be new login screen soon? i know its not possible in 11.04 but in 11.10 it would be cool cause current is not so good..there should be new look, plus new options like login with cam, fingerprints..
<UndiFineD> I totally agree with Jarek, there should be something done to the login at least to make it accessible
<UndiFineD> we have blind users mailing the accessibility list that they cannot switch to classic, because orca is not running
<spikeb> gah, i wish unity had a show desktop button heh
<akshatj> spikeb, there is Ctrl+D
<akshatj> err, super+D
<spikeb> that works :)
<dale_> i need help i am trying to get unity to work on my disk top it just go's to classic
<dale_> heelo?
<dale_> hello?
<stefano-palazzo> kenvandine, are you around?
<dale_> i am needing som help
<stefano-palazzo> dale_, what do you need help with?
<dale_> i am trying to get unity to work on my disktop it just go's back to classic
<stefano-palazzo> dale_, this isn't the right place to ask this kind of question
<stefano-palazzo> dale_, I recommend you go to the ubuntu forums or http://askubuntu.com and explain your problem there
<stefano-palazzo> make sure to include lots of detail, like what type of graphics card you have and so on
<dale_> im on the ubuntu help web page and this is what i got
<dale_> i clicked on contact
<stefano-palazzo> dale_, yeah - this channel is where the developers hang out, but it's not the right place to get help
<stefano-palazzo> do check out askubuntu.com, it should only take a few minutes until you get an answer there
<dale_> i need a link to a ubuntu  help channel
<dale_> that is what says http://unity.ubuntu.com/contact-us/
<smspillaz|z> RAOF: I believe XGrabServer is a synchronous call and XUngrabServer isn't
 * smspillaz|z would be very concerned if XGrabServer was just a racy thing that didn't do what it was supposed to until the X server has gotten around to it
<smspillaz|z> however, XUngrabServer is asynchronous since the design is that the server is supposed to finish processing stuff in your command buffer first before opening up other connections
<smspillaz|z> and the assumption is that there is one connection per app
<smspillaz|z> perfeclty reasonable
<smspillaz|z> ...except in our case
<zniavre> good afternnon sometime a strange behavior of appmenu make think it's a bug > it gives menu of the desktop (like globalmenu does) how can i explain this if i report a bug ?
<sense> zniavre: bug #733050 might help you a bit
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 733050 in Unity Foundations "appmenu-gtk 0.1.96-0ubuntu1 prevents desktop global menu (desktop appmenu in unity panel) from appearing" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/733050
<kenvandine> stefano-palazzo, hey
<zniavre> sense,  im going to check it thank you
<sense> yw
<stefano-palazzo> hi Ken :)
<kenvandine> stefano-palazzo, what's up?
<stefano-palazzo> kenvandine, can you give me the latest news on this bug? I'm stumped
<stefano-palazzo> https://bugs.launchpad.net/askubuntu-lens/+bug/758839
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 758839 in AskUbuntu Lens "Lens doesn't start on login" [Critical,Confirmed]
<stefano-palazzo> I've no idea what to do
<kenvandine> stefano-palazzo, i haven't looked again, we should get kamstrup to look
<kenvandine> the error i saw was the section_model isn't a dee model
<zniavre> sense,  in fact i thought the bug was it does not appears ...   :o)
<kenvandine> kamstrup, you around?
<sense> zniavre: We want to have a menu in the top panel when the desktop is focussed. It's on purpose. :)
<zniavre> ok that s fair
<jcastro> kenvandine: maybe lazy loading fixed it, I'll try it now
<stefano-palazzo> kenvandine, that reminds me of the early Dee bugs; do you know if any other lenses are affected?
<stefano-palazzo> (I can finally reproduce it reliably by the way)
<kenvandine> stefano-palazzo, actually i think the google books lens maybe
<kenvandine> i get a crash on load for that
<stefano-palazzo> that makes sense, the books lense is built on my code base (which in turn is built off example code)
<stefano-palazzo> *lens
<davidcalle> stefano-palazzo, my startup bugs were mostly (and weirdly) related to utf-8 stuff.
<davidcalle> stefano-palazzo, it's working 99% of the time at startup now.
<stefano-palazzo> davidcalle, do you have a traceback of this kind of thing handy?
<davidcalle> stefano-palazzo, I usually look at cat /proc/<pid>/fd/1 when it crashes
<stefano-palazzo> davidcalle, I was thinking, maybe I know what the problem is :)
<davidcalle> stefano-palazzo, oh :)
<stefano-palazzo> I've been porting things to python 3000, so I'm very familiar with "ordinal not in range" type of errors
<davidcalle> I've seen those in nightmares a few nights ago :P
<stefano-palazzo> heh
<stefano-palazzo> usually your best bet is the response object from urllib, sometimes the headers contain an encoding,
<stefano-palazzo> if everything else fails, you need to do trial and error, try to convert from X to unicode where X is every possible encoding in order of likelyhood. It's a pain (but firefox does it this way too)
<davidcalle> Yes, I try to sanitize it. And I've discovered you shouldn't "print" everything...
<stefano-palazzo> :-)
<davidcalle> Oh, I now have a PPA if you want to see if we can smash common bugs together.
<davidcalle> https://launchpad.net/~davidc3/+archive/books-lens
<stefano-palazzo> nice! adding that now
<davidcalle> stefano-palazzo, I've seen pics of a reddit lens. We should make a Lens team on Launchpad, with a handy mailing-list.
<stefano-palazzo> like "Lens developers"?
<davidcalle> Seems perfect.
<stefano-palazzo> yeah why not
<stefano-palazzo> there's slight overhead with Unity, but sure I'm in
<jcastro> bummer guys, still doesn't work even with the latest unity.
<jcastro> davidcalle: actually, I'd like to have lens discussions on ayatana-dev, at least for a while since that's where the DX people are that can help us out
<davidcalle> jcastro, what doesn't work? Yeah, you're right, I always forget about ayatana-dev.
<jcastro> the AU lens
<jcastro> when I log in it's blank
<jcastro> I have to manually start it up
<davidcalle> jcastro, have you tried my ppa, to see if you have the same bug? The code base is very similar.
<jcastro> oh good idea
<jcastro> ok so I logged in and out like 5 times
<jcastro> it's totally racy, depending on my random dice roll one, both, or neither lens loads
<stefano-palazzo> :-(
<stefano-palazzo> davidcalle, how long does your lens take to start up?
<stefano-palazzo> in other words, do you download big chunks of data on startup, like me?
<davidcalle> stefano-palazzo, not on startup.
<davidcalle> stefano-palazzo, ok, now when I kill the process, it automatically restarts... Didn't have that yesterday. :/
<stefano-palazzo> by the way davidcalle, your lens is amazing. It even find my old philophy techer's book :D
<stefano-palazzo> davidcalle, I just noticed the same thing
<davidcalle> stefano-palazzo, :)
<stefano-palazzo> I guess I must read it now :)
<njpatel> jcastro, it should only start the lens when you click on the ubuntu button, i.e. at log-in no unity-*-place should be running
<njpatel> unity-*-daemon*
<njpatel> also, why do we not ship with Faenza as default icons? They match Unity so well
<davidcalle> njpatel, :-)
<jcastro> njpatel: even clicking on them doesn't load them
<njpatel> jcastro, what about the files/apps place?
<jcastro> there is something odd going on in there
<njpatel> is the .service file correct for dbus activation?
<jcastro> files and apps work fine
<jcastro> it's just the 3rd party lenses
<njpatel> or, the python lenses?
<njpatel> maybe there is something wrong going on there
<stefano-palazzo> very possible â
<njpatel> (apart from them being in python ;)
<jcastro> yea
<jcastro> kenvandine can reproduce
<njpatel> so happens with gwibber too
<jcastro> https://bugs.launchpad.net/askubuntu-lens/+bug/758839
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 758839 in AskUbuntu Lens "Lens doesn't start on login" [Critical,Confirmed]
<jcastro> see his comment there
<kenvandine> njpatel, no, working fine now
<njpatel> so the daemon is running
<njpatel> but the objects are not exported over dbus?
<njpatel> or is dee failing?
<kenvandine> njpatel, if i start the AU daemon manually then setsid unity
<kenvandine> i see assertions like DEE_IS_MODEL
<kenvandine> on the sections_model
<njpatel> hmm
<kenvandine> just that one model
<kenvandine> the gwibber one is working fine now though
<kenvandine> but i had been having similar issues with it a week or so ago
<njpatel> do you see the place entry?
<njpatel> wow, it does happen
<njpatel> weird
<njpatel> ** (<unknown>:4083): WARNING **: Unable to call GetEntries() on: GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.UnknownMethod: No such interface `com.canonical.Unity.Place' on object at path /net/launchpad/askubuntuplace
<davidcalle> I had this one a few hours ago. Can't trigger it reliably.
<jcastro> "wow, it does happen" <-- thanks for trusting us!
<jcastro> :)
<njpatel> hah
<njpatel> could it take so long to start up that the request is timing out?
<njpatel> kamstrup, would probably know best
<stefano-palazzo> davidcalle, hey I get no Icons for the books - lots of IconLoader errors "operation not supported"
<stefano-palazzo> you know, I do download stuff before registering with dbus
<stefano-palazzo> maybe I should switch it 'round and see if that makes a big difference, maybe my lens is blocking others _somehow_
<davidcalle> stefano-palazzo, I know, it happens 50% of the time.
<om26er> smspillaz|z, ping!
<om26er> smspillaz|z, seems like i have the steps to reproduce bug 760436
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 760436 in unity (Ubuntu) "Window display shifted" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/760436
<ubuntu> nope. doesn't make a difference
<akshatj> ubuntu, ?
<ubuntu> oh my xchat settings are gone!
<ubuntu> how is that username not taken?
<stefano-palazzo> anyway, downloading files after registering with dbus doesn't solve the problem. It doesn't seem to be related to the long startup time
<njpatel> stefano-palazzo, is there a long startup time?
<stefano-palazzo> njpatel, yeah about two to three seconds, depending on your internet connection
<njpatel> Sorry, I might have crashed gdm
<stefano-palazzo> :-)
<stefano-palazzo> a second before you crashed:
<stefano-palazzo> njpatel, yeah about two to three seconds, depending on your internet connection
<njpatel> right
<njpatel> interesting
<stefano-palazzo> I'm downloading things I don't expect to change between reboots
<smspillaz|z> om26er: ah, can reproduce it really reliably with that dude!
<smspillaz|z> thanks for those instructions!
<smspillaz|z> I will get on to it at the start of next week
<om26er> smspillaz|z, good ;)
<FLOZz`[Unity]> hi
<FLOZz`[Unity]> om26er: hi ?
<om26er> FLOZz`[Unity], hello
<FLOZz`[Unity]> hello om26er, you marked bugs lp:760436 and lp:761811 as duplicate, but I think they are not related
<om26er> bug 760436
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 760436 in unity (Ubuntu) "Window display shifted" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/760436
<om26er> bug 761811
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 761811 in unity (Ubuntu) "The first letter of a tooltip is repeated at the end of the tooltip in the dock (dup-of: 761822)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/761811
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 761822 in unity (Ubuntu) "The first letter of a tooltip is repeated at the end of the tooltip in the dock" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/761822
<om26er> those i had already reverted them
<om26er> my mouse was doing some weired things
<FLOZz`[Unity]> ok :)
<FLOZz`[Unity]> I haven't see the change :)
<om26er> FLOZz`[Unity], launchpad sends a delayed reply
<FLOZz`[Unity]> ok
<akshatj_> perhaps anyone here can answer this question http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/04/ubuntu-11-04-beta-2-released/#comment-184499152
<vish> akshatj_: which Q?
<akshatj_> vish, http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/04/ubuntu-11-04-beta-2-released/#comment-184499152
<vish> akshatj_: pah! i know the link, but wondering which is the right Q..
 * vish not used to DISCUSS
<akshatj_> vish, the question Anthony Bloomer asked
<vish> akshatj_: ask him to read release notes, under the hood can mean several things, right from kernel to whatever.. :)
<vish> akshatj_: or ask him to be specific about which hood he wants to look under ;p
<vish> heh, the comments section is like a group auditioning for "Last Comic Standing!"
<kenvandine> sladen, are you already sponsoring bug 753584 ?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 753584 in humanity-icon-theme (Ubuntu) "New Libre office icons are used in the launcher but not in Nautilus / Dash search results" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/753584
<sladen> kenvandine: I have uploaded it.  It's in the queue
<sladen> kenvandine: pester your local release-manager/archive-admin
<kenvandine> cool, thanks... SweetShark was asking me
<LLStarks> dash is still dead with latest updates. zeitgeist isn't kicking in or something.
<LLStarks> can't press enter or anything
<LLStarks> can't enter commands
<LLStarks> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/762092
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 762092 in unity (Ubuntu) "Dash no longer responsive after 3.8.8 update" [Undecided,New]
<kenvandine> tedg, is there any vala app that uses libindicate?
<kenvandine> if they do, they must be embedding their own vapi file
<kenvandine> cheader_filename = "Indicate-0.5.h"
<kenvandine> and
<kenvandine> cheader_filename = "Indicate-Gtk-0.5.tmp.h"
 * kenvandine fixes
<tedg> kenvandine, I think that indicator-sound did, and he did.  But I don't believe that he does anymore with the MPRISv2 stuff getting done.
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> pino includes a heavily modified indicate.vapi
<tedg> kenvandine, Interesting.
<kenvandine> wish people would just file bugs instead of copying
<daniel_> Hello, I'm testing Ubuntu 11.04 beta2, it works more or less OK, but I have a question about unity... Does anybody know how do you change the text color of the global menu when you use a dark theme?
<daniel_> Well, I found that by changing the text color for text boxes  on gnome-appearance-settings changes the color of the global bar.
<rr0hit> please set importance to unity bug 762001 . Watch the attached Video to understand the problem properly.
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 762001 in unity (Ubuntu) "Maximizing/unmaximizing a window by double clicking the title-bar shifts the window towards right" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/762001
<kenvandine> tedg, so libindicate-gtk uses the same namespace and prefix as libindicate?
<tedg> kenvandine, Yeah, it's just a couple helper functions that pull in the extra deps.
<kenvandine> looks like it completely hoses gir
<kenvandine> if import it in python, all i get is the gtk helper functions
<kenvandine> indicate that is
<kenvandine> yeah, and if i remove the indicate-gtk gir i get all the libindicate functions
<kenvandine> more to fix ...
<tedg> Hmm, that's funny.
<tedg> Choose which functions you like more.
<kenvandine> hehe...
<kenvandine> if they use the same namespace, gir and vala won't be able to choose
<dotblank> Hello all.. If I develop a plugin for compiz++ will it be compatable with the unity WM?
<sense> dotblank: Unity is just a Compiz plugin.
<crazedpsyc> *mostly
<crazedpsyc> *partly
<kenvandine> tedg, i pushed fixes for the libindicate vapi
<kenvandine> but i haven't figured out the right thing to do with indicate-gtk
<tedg> kenvandine, Hmm, okay.  I thought we did the same thing for Dbusmenu, no?
<kenvandine> the problem seems to be the namespace and prefix
<kenvandine> they are the same
<kenvandine> i can do a rename like we did for appindicator
<kenvandine> but is that useful?
<kenvandine> indicate-gtk is just a couple add-on functions right?
<kenvandine> you wouldn't create a IndicateGtk.Indicator object
<kenvandine> my immediate need was to fix building against the libindicate vapi
<tedg> Yeah, I don't think that makes sense.
<kenvandine> but then i discovered that even having gir1.2-indicate-gtk-0.5 installed breaks gir for indicate-gtk
<tedg> we could leave indicate-gtk broken?
<kenvandine> no... we should remove it or fix it...
<kenvandine> maybe we can make gir1.2-indicate-0.5 Breaks/Replaces gir1.2-indicate-gtk-0.5
<tedg> kenvandine, Then just include the indicate headers in the gtk one?
<kenvandine> that's an idea
<kenvandine> well, i proposed what i have... feels a little bit like a hack
<kenvandine> it adds listener.h as the header for everything
<kenvandine> but listener.h includes the other headers
<kenvandine> it seems to work
<kenvandine> for the override, it looks like i can only specify a single header for a namespace
 * kenvandine is wiped, eod and cold beer for me :)
<tedg> kenvandine, Okay.  Thanks, have a good weekend!
#ayatana 2011-04-16
<FloatingGoat> hmmm
<FloatingGoat> what features will unity 2D have by natty final?
<lallenlowe> does anyone know what the window name is of notify-osd bubbles?
<lallenlowe> I want to add it to the desktop wall sliding blacklist
<lallenlowe> I don't like the way it looks to see the bubble multiple times sliding around
<lallenlowe> I can't grab the window name, because the bubbles are click-through, lol
<bison> I really do not like unity
<humphreybc> bison: That's nice
<lallenlowe> I looked through the code for notify-osd, but I never found where the window name is set
<lallenlowe> anyone here know about notify-osd?
<Daekdroom> Noo. Clementine is making autohide non-functional again.
<Daekdroom> Session restart fixes it.
<Daekdroom> (restarting unity only doesn't, tho)
<LLStarks> i'd like a importance triage for bug 736222
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 736222 in unity (Ubuntu) "cannot paste into dash (particularly relevant for alt+f2)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/736222
#ayatana 2011-04-17
<tommytwoeyes> Hello everyone..
<spikeb> hi
<tommytwoeyes> I was looking for Mikkel. I am just now reading the Lenses wiki and want to make one of my own, like, right away.   ;)
<spikeb> good luck, i seem to be the only one around, and i don't know much of anything
<tommytwoeyes> Hmm, maybe it will take longer than I had hoped then.
<tommytwoeyes> I don't know anything about DBus. This is really my first foray into developing for Ubuntu. I'm a web developer
<JanC> what language did you intend to use to write your "lens"?
<tommytwoeyes> Python
<tommytwoeyes> How about you two? Python also?
 * spikeb is a designer not a developer
<JanC> it might be useful to look at some lens(es) that are written in Python then, and "steal" the basic code you need  ;)
<tommytwoeyes> yeah, good idea.
<JanC> (of course note copyright by the original author then)
<tommytwoeyes> i am reading my way through the README and wiki docs.
<tommytwoeyes> Then I will look at the files & applications places and try to figure it out from there.
<tommytwoeyes> What are you making your lenses in?
<JanC> I think the AskUbuntu Lens & Book Search Lens are both written in Python, so those should be useful examples
<JanC> I'm not making a lens, but if I would, it would be in Python probably  ;)
<tommytwoeyes> oh ok, cool. thanks
<tommytwoeyes> do you guys know how to launch the Gwibber lens?
<tommytwoeyes> I just installed 11.04 for the first time three hours ago, so it's still a little unfamiliar to me.
<JanC> I think it's in the gwibber PPA
<tommytwoeyes> oh sorry, no I mean, how do you launch it locally on your system, once you have it installed?
<JanC> hm, I'd guess it's available by default, but maybe you need to restart unity/compiz ?
<JanC> either do that manually or log out + log in
<tommytwoeyes> good point. maybe i do. Maybe I am just missing something. I get how you launch the applications place by clicking its icon or typing <super>-a
<tommytwoeyes> same with files place
<JanC> gwibber place does Super+g IIRC
<tommytwoeyes> but i don't see any icon anywhere for gwibber or books, and <super>-g and <super>-b don't appear to do anything.
<JanC> right, but I suppose Unity searches for lenses only when i starts
<JanC> when it starts
<tommytwoeyes> oh right, ok. i guess i'd better restart pretty soon, then....   ;)
<tommytwoeyes> oh, funny, i just now got to the place in the README that says what to do:
<tommytwoeyes> "Then run the daemon with: ./unity-place-python.py"
<tommytwoeyes> "And from another terminal restart Unity like this:  setsid unity"
<tommytwoeyes> oh sweet, there they are.
<tommytwoeyes> this is pretty awesome
<tommytwoeyes> wow, i can see some pretty killer uses for this
<JanC> what lens are you going to make?  âº
<tommytwoeyes> i want to make one that allows you to search the API documentation and wiki for the PHP framework my co-workers and I use: http://www.yiiframework.com/
<tommytwoeyes> well, my eyes are crossing, so that is about all I can read tonight. Hopefully I can get a Lens working within the next few days. Have a good night/day, where you are!
<coz_> good day all
<artfwo> i have an "unmount" option for an sd card, when right-clicking it from the desktop, but no such option is available from unity launcher - is this a design decision?
<derEremit> just played around with unity on my work desktop and found out one thing missing:
<derEremit> a keyboard shortcut to move windows to another monitor
<levu> Hi, how can i make unity remember the applications i marked as "keep in launcher"? Everytime i log out and log in again, there are just the default applications in the launcher
<nigelb> 76
<nigelb> grr
<smspillaz|z> om26er: poke
<smspillaz|z> are you able to build packages ?
<om26er> hmmm, i have natty only on the netbook and pbuilder is not set on the netbook
<om26er> smspillaz|z, ^^
<smspillaz|z> well, you can just build them locally
<smspillaz|z> with bzr buildpackage
<smspillaz|z> I'm just wondering if its more efficient for me to push my lp:compiz somewhere and you can just build new pacakges from it
<smspillaz|z> om26er: wdyt ?
<om26er> smspillaz|z, hmm, i could try
<smspillaz|z> it's literally just
<om26er> smspillaz|z, would it be fine for tomorrow?
<smspillaz|z> sudo apt-get build-dep compiz
<smspillaz|z> sudo apt-get install bzr-buildpackage
<smspillaz|z> bzr branch lp:~smspillaz/compiz/compiz.invisibledebug
<smspillaz|z> cd compiz.invisibledebug
<smspillaz|z> bzr bd
<smspillaz|z> sudo dpkg -i ../build-area/*.deb
<smspillaz|z> om26er: well, debugging this is going to take as long as it takes, I only work part time and have 2 assignments due on tuesday
<smspillaz|z> I'm just a little bit puzzled as to why the only thing in the .xsession-errors from that window is
<smspillaz|z> window 0x100ad27 mapped
<smspillaz|z> window 0x100ad27 mapped
<smspillaz|z> that's basically an impossible case, unless something happens in between and we aren't catching it
<om26er> smspillaz|z, this happens when i minimized *alot* of windows together it seems
<smspillaz|z> so repeated showdesktoping seems to do it then ?
<om26er> smspillaz|z, yes, but I normally use the minimize button on the maximized window to reproduce the problem
<smspillaz|z> right
<smspillaz|z> I can't reproduce it though
<smspillaz|z> that's why I'm debugging soley on output :)
<smspillaz|z> anyways - could you try building that package then and installing it then posting the same deal when you get the bug again ?
<om26er> smspillaz|z, i had sources disabled in software-sources so enabling them,, i'll email you after that
<smspillaz|z> ok
 * smspillaz|z should go to bed
<lackdiant> hi, when i click in places in Unity, it appears an option with the last documents i've seen, how can I delete it?
<ellisrubio> hello from colombia
<sundjinnkari> Hello there all.
<hicham> is there a network manager indicator for unity ?
