#ubuntu-accessibility 2011-02-28
<lurking2day> Anybody home?
<AlanBell> lurking2day: hi
<lurking2day> Just a moment, please
<lurking2day> You created Faisal?
<AlanBell> yes
<lurking2day> I was a staff sw engineer who became Faisal (motor skills/dexterity). I should be able to help.
<AlanBell> we are working on a series of persona documents
<lurking2day> and... ?
<lurking2day> Do you need a Faisal at the moment?
<lurking2day> Alan: (Or anyone else): If this is a bad time, I can come back. 
<lurking2day> If you're looking for a top notch 'Faisal' wrt motor skills, I'm offering to help.
<AlanBell> sorry, in the middle of something else at the moment
<charlie-tca> images are all broken at the present time, installations fail
<charlie-tca> We will be testing the screen-reader installation for natty alpha3 this week
<erkan^> hajour, do you use "Maginifiy"?
<hajour> hai erkan^ :0
<erkan^> hi hajour 
<hajour> :)
<Pendulum> hi hajour, erkan^ :)
<Pendulum> (i'm only somewhat here, but I made it to my hotel at least!)
<hajour> hai Pendulum :)
<erkan^> and hi Pendulum (-:
<erkan^> do you understand about my question, hajour  ?
<erkan^> AlanBell: You would have to be able to get compiz the x,y coords of the cursor. You could do this possibly using dbus or a custom lib but it would require some programming
<erkan^> about EZOOM
<hajour> Maginifiy = vergrootglas?
<hajour> you are on a congress or something Pendulum ?
<maco> hajour: she's traveling to visit a special doctor
<erkan^> that is right, hajour 
<hajour> a ok maco
<Pendulum> hajour: no, I see a specialist for Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome and she's 6 hours away from home so drove down today, see her tomorrow, and drive back home tomorrow afternoon
<hajour> ok than i right understand it erkan^ 
<Pendulum> and tonight I see maco! :D
<maco> yay!
<erkan^> yes
<erkan^> but do you use a maginifiy, hajour ?
<hajour> nice Pendulum  and maco 
<hajour> if it is possibly yes then i  do erkan^ 
<erkan^> I am tried with ZoomText, because it is perhaps for friends and colleagues for me interesse in Ubuntu when it is succesfull with ZoomText. They have 
<hajour> i will not be long here today
<erkan^> they always are depends --> ZoomText
<hajour> undi and i do shift watch
<hajour> because my youngest daughter is not very well
<charlie-tca> Pendulum: I sent you a blog page
<erkan^> hajour: http://forum.compiz.org/viewtopic.php?f=86&t=33689 --> I have wroten
<Pendulum> charlie-tca: I saw. I'll probably not get it up until Wednesday, but I did look at it
<charlie-tca> Let me know if it works for you
<hajour> i am still awake from yesterday 11:00 its now here 22:29 evening
<charlie-tca> I thought you went to sleep last nite?
<hajour> read above
<erkan^> Al two days I tried to solve a problem, but it is not success )-; 
<hajour> she felt almost had hurt in the hart airier
<hajour> low blood pressure
<hajour> undi worked today
<charlie-tca> Sorry to hear that, hajour 
<hajour> but not had sleep last night
<hajour> so he sleep now
<charlie-tca> My 35 years old nephew had a heart attack yesterday
<hajour> and he take over in about 2 hoours from now
<hajour> she is 10
<charlie-tca> That is very hard for you, then
<hajour> i hope he is alright you nephew
<hajour> i worry
<hajour> she ia alreay so tiny and skinny
<hajour> is already
<hajour> she is been here in llubuntu channel
<hajour> she has also a factoid by the bot dragon eyes
<hajour> i think it will come alright again
<hajour> she is a fighter
<charlie-tca> hajour: he is older, and will probably be fine. Your daughter is very young. 
<hajour> she is like me
<charlie-tca> I hope she is going to be okay
<hajour> yes i think she will ok againand over 10  years she have partner o i now already have sorry fot that partner
<hajour> she have a strong will
<hajour> she looks like me when i was that age
<charlie-tca> A strong will helps. That gives strength
<hajour> yes
<hajour> and she have more confidence then me
<hajour> hai MichelleQ :)
<hajour> how you call that in english?
<hajour> here they say
<hajour> ze is een pittige meid
<charlie-tca> she is one tough little girl
<hajour> yes
<charlie-tca> or "she is one strong girl", either way
<hajour> she looks sometimes hard outside but is very sensitive in many things
<hajour> she often makes me smile
<hajour> she was angry she was not old enough to come on ubuntu
<hajour> because she want to learn program to
<hajour> here
<hajour> and help
<hajour> my 11 year daughter also 
<hajour> then i say just have patience
<Pendulum> hajour: do they know english? because there's a book called Snake Wrangling for Kids that they might be able to use to learn to program
<maco> i gave a pdf of that to my little cousins, along with How to Think Like a Computer Scientist:  Learning With Python...
<Pendulum> heck, I like Snake Wrangling for kids
<erkan^>  niemand wilt mijn probleem oplossen )-; . hier was rustig, later zei ik hoi hajour en over vergrootglasprogramma gevraagd, later werd opeens druk )-:
<hajour> she have use google translate
<maco> the 11 year old has informed "*scoff* i already know what a function is" since she actually read them!
<Pendulum> I spent a good 2 hours playing with it one day because it was fun!
<hajour> when she where here in the lubuntu channel
<Pendulum> *nods*
<hajour> sorry erkan^ 
 * erkan^ loopt het weg en duikt in de kleedkast )-:
<hajour> erkan^, have the feeling nobody wants to solve his problem
<erkan^> no indeed )-:
<erkan^> http://www.aisquared.com/ --> 500 dollar :S
<hajour> my daughter just is watching now often english movie s with dutch subtitles
<erkan^> cool, hajour :-D
<hajour> she probably have dyslectic to but she always search to a solution
<charlie-tca> It is very hard to resolve the issues with accessibility applications. 
<hajour> erkan^, ^
<charlie-tca> erkan^ is trying to use the magnifier application. It works, but has bugs in it. 
<hajour> line above is about my 10 year old
<erkan^> but happy is important. i hope that you feel happy and children too, hajour 
<charlie-tca> the compiz magnifier works better, but not when typing
<hajour> my 11 year old have diagnostic dyslectic
<hajour> mm ok charlie-tca 
<erkan^> that is right, charlie-tca 
<charlie-tca> We keep looking for solutions, but we have not found one yet for that problem
<AlanBell> charlie-tca: I think I found all the bits to write a compiz text tracking zoom
<erkan^> Compiz Magnifier is little same --> http://www.aisquared.com/ ... charlie-tca 
<AlanBell> I read the orca source which shows how it gets the x,y of the text cursor when in a gnome text object
<hajour> Pendulum, i deliver reinforcement for the women her XD
<charlie-tca> erkan^: AlanBell is trying to fix the compiz magnifier so it will work. It just takes us all time to make everything work or find solutions.
<erkan^> really???
<charlie-tca> great! I got in another fight over getting Onboard in the menu. 
<charlie-tca> It seems it is supposedly very easy for those who need it to just start it without a menu
<erkan^> is that difficult bugs, charlie-tca ?
<charlie-tca> yup
<AlanBell> charlie-tca: who with?
<charlie-tca> Got to try and get able-bodied people to understand the problems.
<charlie-tca> bug 275450
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 275450 in onboard "menu items missing on fresh install of Ubuntu" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/275450
<charlie-tca> lol
<hajour> bug 1
<ubot2> hajour: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1 (Not reporting large bug)
<charlie-tca> Just got to keep trying, right?
<hajour> :P
<hajour> sorry could not let it to do it
<Pendulum> charlie-tca: I'm adding in support on that bug
<charlie-tca> I got the Onboard developer in on it, too
<charlie-tca> We haven't given up, either.
<Pendulum> I know
<hajour> never give up 
<hajour> well sometimes
<hajour> but i stand fast up again
<charlie-tca> It just frustrates me. If it is easy to make it work, we shouldn't need a menu for anything. Every application should be just as easy to make work.
<Pendulum> tbh, there used to be a lot of accessibility stuff that was easier to start in older versions of Ubuntu than it is now :-/
<hajour> UndiFineD,  and i want speechprogram also so easy as possible 
<charlie-tca> yes, but the answers from the devs never change to match the reality
<Pendulum> I remeber in Feisty where it was substantially easier to use GUIs for screen mag and I think text-to-speech
<Pendulum> (I remember playing around with it once and back in those days I used screen magnification a lot more than I do now)
<charlie-tca> yes, but the menu was "cluttered" then, since you actually had an accessibility menu
<hajour> its easy to check if it is difficult UndiFineD  just ask me to try .i am a newbie :P
<Pendulum> I still don't know how to do GUI screen mag in current Ubuntu installs
<hajour> define GUI screen ?
<Pendulum> GUI = graphical user interface (so not using command line)
<Pendulum> screen mag = screen magnification
<maco> charlie-tca: gdm lacks on onscreen kbd too? how do you login if...
<maco> i think kdm just got one recently
<charlie-tca> gdm uses Onboard, but it won't let you enter the password
<charlie-tca> The enter password option locks Onboard out
<maco> that's stupid
<charlie-tca> heh, yup
<charlie-tca> But I can't just say that to them
<charlie-tca> lol
<charlie-tca> I got another bug report for that too
<AlanBell> charlie-tca: forget the accessibility argument
<AlanBell> think "tablet computer"
<charlie-tca> Maybe that will work. I can try it
<TheMuso> I wonder if gdm obeys the gconf key that tells gksu not to grab the keyboard... Probably not.
<charlie-tca> I keep thinking accessibility is IMPORTANT. 
<AlanBell> it is, but sometimes you  have to explain why it is important to *everyone*
<AlanBell> and pointing out that it kinda helps when you don't have a keyboard on a tablet computer gets a wider spectrum of users interested in it being fixed
<charlie-tca> I am trying... I got in trouble for telling someone they weren't smart enough to bother with a bug report; I won't do that again
<Pendulum> have added a paragraph about tablets onto my comment
<hajour> TheMuso,  have you read the mail already from speechcontrol?
<TheMuso> hajour: Unless there is a specific reason to read all such mails, I tend to skim ovr them.
<charlie-tca> Thank you, Pendulum 
<charlie-tca> Apparently, I have to be careful of what wording I use.
<hajour> well TheMuso  in the mail stands speechcontrol is go upstream
<hajour> and have new channels TheMuso 
<TheMuso> hajour: I saw.
<hajour> ok jus wanted to know you was informed TheMuso :)
<hajour> just
<hajour> that's all
<hajour> sorry to say but i find it better speechcontrol is go this way. i go watch this week more to it also. i already said i want it easy to install or together with ubuntu program mmm hard to explain in english
<maco> hajour: do you mean you want to make it part of the default install?
<hajour> most read /write programs you need to read much for to install it
<hajour> what most people who need it simple not are able to
<hajour> yes maco
<hajour> i think it is not good to make a program what need to make it accessible is self not accessible to install
<hajour> it seams logical to me
<hajour> and many programs are like that
<hajour> thats why i almost always need help with install things on the pc
<Pendulum> i'm heading out. catch y'all later. maco, we should be there in 40-50 min
<hajour> and thats is quiet frustrating because i like to do that myself without help needed
<hajour> and thank you maco  for to explain what i meant
<charlie-tca> TheMuso is probably thinking it is nice to have other people trying to help with these accessibility issues
<TheMuso> charlie-tca: Hell yeah.
<Cheri703> charlie-tca: I was just catching up on my scrollback: the onboard not being in a menu and not being able to put in passwords have bugged me for a long time and I don't *need* them
<charlie-tca> I know that one, Cheri703 
<charlie-tca> TheMuso: anything I can help with... just let me know
<Cheri703> TheMuso: I've been trying to talk my brother into helping with some of the accessibility programming and such, but he's SUPER busy and has a 6 month old, so not likely any time soon, but he's hard of hearing and is interested in helping if his life calms down a bit
<TheMuso> charlie-tca: thanks. Unity a11y stuff is still being worked on, so I will likely be letting you know once thats ready for wider testing.
<TheMuso> Cheri703: Thats great to hear.
<Cheri703> TheMuso: ditto what charlie-tca said, I'm not able to program, but I can test like a pro ;)
<charlie-tca> That would be good. I keep testing it, too
<charlie-tca> I am not any good as a programmer. I just do other things to try and help
#ubuntu-accessibility 2011-03-01
<jledbetter> Pendulum, ping
<Pendulum> jledbetter: what's up?
<jledbetter> Pendulum, May I PM?
<Pendulum> yep 
<erkan^> UndiFineD, AlanBell etc. : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/727290
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 727290 in compiz "Zoom doesn't follow to text" [Undecided,New]
<erkan^> I go visite. laterss ubot2 thank you
<maco> http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/IMMD/~3/Hfv6C5yTD40/  <-- accessibility win!
<charlie-tca> wOw!
<hajour_> great maco 
<hajour_> o uh hai all
<hajour_> hi i mean
<hajour_> i was reading back the channels
<hajour_> and thank you for your nice mail jledbetter 
<charlie-tca> and then there is: http://www.itproportal.com/2011/03/01/worlds-first-eye-controlled-laptop-presented-cebit-2011/
<hajour_> what is standing in the page charlie-tca ?
<hajour_> very small fonts
<charlie-tca> Oh, mine are set minimum 16pt
<charlie-tca> It is an article about the first eye-controlled laptop being developed 
<hajour_> eye controlled?
<charlie-tca> eye controlled, it relies on the human eyes to point, select and scroll and complements existing system technology
<hajour> UndiFineD,  have explained it to me
<hajour> very nice 
<charlie-tca> Kind of exciting to see it, even if it is just starting
<hajour> yes its very good for people who are not able to use there hands
<jledbetter> hajour_ You're welcome :)
<hajour> jledbetter, i thought i was on the mailing list from ubuntu women
<hajour> but i think i am not
<hajour> because i don't get mail from ubuntu women
<jledbetter> hajour, I highly recommend being on there. It's a low activity list but did mention the "get help with sponsorship" stuff :)
<hajour> i go look to it later .that i will sign in on the mailing list
#ubuntu-accessibility 2011-03-02
 * hajour is going on sleeping mode
<hajour> Pendulum, are you around?
<Cheri703> she is likely sleeping hajour 
<hajour> o :(
<Pendulum> hajour: I just got up, but 1) I'm not very awake and 2) I may be going back to sleep soon. feel free to PM me with stuff and I'll look through it when I'm more awake
<hajour> i have told everything in ubuntu women Pendulum 
<Pendulum> hajour: okay, I'll look at it when I'm awake
<hajour> without saying names
<hajour> ok Pendulum :)
<Pendulum> *nods*
<hajour> i really would appreciate advice
<UndiFineD> AlanBell: leoquant is wondering why meetingology left #Ubuntu-nl-mwanzo
<AlanBell> meetingology: join #Ubuntu-nl-mwanzo
<AlanBell> Cannot join channel (+r) - you need to be identified with services
<AlanBell> meetingology: join #Ubuntu-nl-mwanzo
<UndiFineD> thanks AlanBell 
<AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/TeamReports/11/February any more stuff to add?
<charlie-tca> test case for screen-reader?
<AlanBell> bung it in
<charlie-tca> http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Install/DesktopAccessibility
<charlie-tca> I haven't even had time to update Xubuntu reports yet
<charlie-tca> but I will get there
<erkan^> hmm, I am reading --> http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Install/DesktopAccessibility
#ubuntu-accessibility 2011-03-03
<charlie-tca> alpha3 fails for accessibility install; orca starts and quits immediately when you get to the live desktop
<Pendulum> :(
<charlie-tca> I think there is too much crashing to make it usable by orca
<hajour> hai Pendulum  and charlie-tca 
<hajour> we just discovered undifined was hacked today .and the hacker comes root straight away
<hajour> he use the owner his name
<hajour> to do things under the ownders name
<hajour> what seams to have happen to by jacky possible
<hajour> we now let all teammembers from speechcontrol and wintermute check there pc s
<hajour> he was in 5 attempts true ssh
<hajour> in amazingly fast way
<Pendulum> :(
<hajour> undi will give logs from it to help irc
<hajour> undi said i never have this fast way hacking
<hajour> he camre true ssh
<hajour> and undi have worked by government and by europese license office
<charlie-tca> If a hacker got in through ssh, can he tell who it was?
<hajour> so he know from security
<hajour> its a a ip from a turkish server
<hajour> 212.58.4.188
<Pendulum> yeah, but IP doesn't mean that much. Anyone can buy a server somewhere
<hajour> Doruk.net 
<hajour>  server in Istanbul - TURKEY
<hajour> AlanBell, had checked it
<Pendulum> (or if it's a really good hacker, they could be using a machine they've hacked into to then hack into more machines
<Pendulum> )
<maco> you're not a bank, and you're not a government. the authorities won't care that someone tried to crack your system
<hajour> its means security needs to be improved
<Pendulum> they'll care if they stole identity and start using your credit cards, but that's about it
<hajour> i care when wintermute things and speechcontrol things are gone
<hajour> they even have used it to come on wiki
<hajour> what explaned why the links from the wiki where linking to empty pages
<hajour> that happened on 18 february
<hajour> i don't think linux like to be hacked 
<hajour> well just do with the info you all want
<hajour> just don't say i have not warned for it
<hajour> the hacker use the owners name
<hajour> you only can see it on the ip adress
<hajour> i have say jacky to warn everone from wintermute and speechcontrol that all team members need to check there  pc
<hajour> till later i am very busy at the moment not meant to be rude just want to inform you thats all
<hajour> for info undifined have logs to proof it and to let see how the hacker works
<hajour> http://paste.ubuntu.com/574729/   its all on here
<TheMuso> charlie-tca: Hrm let me try the alpha 3 candidate and see if I can reproduce what you found with Orca.
<TheMuso> If ssh is involved, IMO key authentication is the only way to do.
<TheMuso> s/do/go/
<hajour> paultag is already busy with it
<hajour> i think he know that things TheMuso ?or need i to tell him
<TheMuso> hajour: He likely knows.
<charlie-tca> TheMuso: thanks. 
<charlie-tca> Mine was a hardware installation here
<hajour> ok thank you TheMuso :)
<charlie-tca> I will probably try it again tomorrow, and file all the crash reports, but I am too tired today to file them all
<hajour> good night charlie-tca :)
<charlie-tca> good night, hajour 
<hajour> its 2:16 here in night
<hajour> undi is still awake
<charlie-tca> get some rest, morning comes too fast
<hajour> he don't want to go sleeping before this is resolved
<hajour> and he have to be awake again at 6:00
<TheMuso> That pastebin does not show how the hack was successful...
<TheMuso> Unless I missed something.
<TheMuso> All I see are invalid attempts, then, stuff to do with a session close for root.
<hajour> i just have said to undi what you said TheMuso 
<hajour> he comes later tomorrow again and will explain it then
<hajour> i am not a IT person
<hajour> i only have give true what undifined said
<TheMuso> hajour: No problem, just not sure if I've missed something.
<hajour> he says it have no use to do true me he better tell it himself
 * TheMuso is now checking his gateway box ssh related activity, since he has an open ssh port for when he is on the road.
<hajour> but now he really need to sleep he only have 4 hours left to sleep
<charlie-tca> TheMuso, hajour : I see nothing in that pastebin either, except failed attempts.
 * TheMuso usuallyd oes check, but check again after the above discovery.
<hajour> charlie-tca,  undifined will tel tomorrow
<hajour> he need to sleep
<charlie-tca> I will to. so far, my firewall has held up well. I will go look in the logs tonight though and make sure
<hajour> ok charlie-tca  and TheMuso :)
<hajour> i also need to go to sleep
<hajour> i have 5 hours left then the kids need to wake up
<TheMuso> Goodnight
<hajour> goodnight TheMuso  and charlie-tca 
<hajour> and everyone else 
 * hajour yawns
<TheMuso> charlie-tca: For me, the minimum requirements for ssh are key authenticatino only, and only allowing specific users with the AllowUser directive.
<TheMuso> my logs are absolutely full of root ssh attempts, which is blocked.
<charlie-tca> yup, I get hits constantly on my firewall. I use key authentication, but also specific ip's allowed in only
<charlie-tca> I set iptables up to only allow my local ip addresses in
<TheMuso> Yeah thats ok if you know where you are connecting from, but when on the road/over seas, I never know.
<charlie-tca> that's true
<charlie-tca> I can not even connect myself when not at home
<TheMuso> Thats fair enough if you are willing to live with that.
<TheMuso> Wow, a lot of attempts with oracle as the username.
<charlie-tca> I am not smart enough to know how to set it safely for other uses
<TheMuso> Fair enough.
<Cheri703> I have fail2ban set up on mine
<charlie-tca> never quite figured that out either
<Cheri703> I just install it and leave it at default :)
<Cheri703> locks you out after 3 failed attempts
 * Cheri703 tried it successfully then had to wait for it to clear -_-
<Cheri703> *tried to get it to block er
<Cheri703> *her
<TheMuso> Cheri703: How long does it take to clear?
<Cheri703> 15 or so minutes? maybe?
<Cheri703> I think that's one of the things you can change, but I haven't bothered
<Cheri703> but it may be long enough to get whoever is poking at it to move on
<Cheri703> dunno
<TheMuso> fair enough.
<Cheri703> 3 failed attempts and that ip isn't allowed access
<Cheri703> just a small protection piece
<Cheri703> I dunno, maybe I'm too lax with mine
<TheMuso> Yeah, I think keys do a large part of securing SSH, you just have to be careful with the keys themselves.
<TheMuso> charlie-tca: Whilst booting into the desktop with accessibility/orca enabled works for me, I suspect I might know what caused it for you, and I think its a race. WIll upload a fix for it post alpha 3.
<charlie-tca> Thanks
<fregl> hi, would anyone be interested in packaging the Qt at-spi bridge some time?
<AlanBell> fregl: probably
<AlanBell> fregl: where is the code?
<fregl> AlanBell: it needs at-spi2 to work, other than that it is a single .so plugin. feedback welcome http://gitorious.org/qt-at-spi
<AlanBell> maco: ^^
<maco> will give it a look this weekend
<fregl> thanks
<AlanBell> maco: I am interested in helping, but you are the Qt guru
<maco> not a guru
<maco> just someone with a teensy bit of qt programming knowledge
<AlanBell> everything is relative
<darkdevil666> Hey hi!
<darkdevil666> is there any team working on voice recognition?
<Pendulum> darkdevil666: it's kinda complicated, but you probably want to talk to hajour and UndiFineD about speechcontrol
<Pendulum> it's an upstream project that was started by them
<Pendulum> bascially, voice recognition is something that linux and open source in general is waaay behind on
<Pendulum> but hopefully speechcontrol will improve some of it for Ubuntu
<Pendulum> I think it's really mainly meant for commands right now
<Pendulum> (but they're also still a very new project)
<darkdevil666> that's wonderful
<Pendulum> things that aren't so closely ubuntu related you might also want to look at are julius and CMUSphinx and simon listens
<UndiFineD> Thanks pen
<Pendulum> you're welcome :)
<Pendulum> (I'm head of the ubuntu accessibility team so it's kinda what I do to know this stuff ;-) )
<Pendulum> (especially since I'm not a developer)
<darkdevil666> thnks a lot pendulum
<Pendulum> UndiFineD: sorry, I missed that you said that. but I'm happy to send people your way who are interested :)
<Pendulum> darkdevil666: you're welcome :)
#ubuntu-accessibility 2011-03-04
<maco> http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/IMMD/~3/1bJKWkoxzAI/   :D
<charlie-tca> Thanks, maca
<charlie-tca> hm, well
<charlie-tca> thank you, maco 
<charlie-tca> those are the tidbits that keep me motivated
<hajour> good night all
#ubuntu-accessibility 2011-03-05
<hajour> TheMuso, we have a meeting on this moment
<hajour> duanedesign,  will you plz put the master thing from my name
<duanedesign> hajour: remove youname from the wiki?
<duanedesign> your name*
<hajour> they said they had made me master
<duanedesign> ohh
<hajour> i don't want the master titel anymore
<duanedesign> :(
<hajour> i have a lot to say but don't no where
<duanedesign> ok
<hajour> ubt says to want to make more involving programs
<hajour> and give true techniligy
<hajour> technolechy
<duanedesign> you can PM me if you wat
<duanedesign> want*
<hajour> btw i am not burnt out
<hajour> i just piont to UBT there own rules
<hajour> point
<hajour> sorry for the language mistakes
<hajour> yes i know what is told in ubuntu beginners team
<hajour> don't tell story s about me who ever have said that
<hajour> what are not true
<duanedesign> we can talk anout this in a PM
<hajour> why there is telling lies aboutme in open chat
<hajour> why i then cant defend myself in open chat
#ubuntu-accessibility 2011-03-06
<AlanBell> o/ Pendulum 
<Pendulum> hi AlanBell 
<AlanBell> I was going to ask about that mail I sent about the gnome accessibility thing, but I can't find it now
<AlanBell> ATK/AT-SPI Hackfest
<AlanBell> http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-accessibility-list/2011-March/msg00000.html
<Pendulum> do you know what the big problem is?
<AlanBell> no
<Pendulum> it's the same week as UDS
<Pendulum> (they scheduled after UDS and are aware of the conflict)
<AlanBell> so it is
<AlanBell> I thought it was the week after
#ubuntu-accessibility 2012-02-27
<Fudge> hi
#ubuntu-accessibility 2012-02-28
<AlanBell> so orca and lightdm is a bit wrong it seems
<AlanBell> it reads my password out loud (do. not. want.) but does not read the names of the different users as I scroll up and down (which would be handy)
<DomasoFan> hi all. just checked out a daily build of ubuntu 12.04 on a VMware virtual machine here. seems the currently unity accessibility seems broken right now.
#ubuntu-accessibility 2012-02-29
<DomasoFan> hi all
<Pendulum> hi DomasoFan 
<DomasoFan> hi. so i tested the daily build of ubuntu 2 days ago i guess and it seems that the accessibility is currently a little bit broken. can't access the start menu and the user menu. anyone also figured that out?
#ubuntu-accessibility 2012-03-01
<Pendulum> A general question to everyone, I'm putting together the things to do usability testing. Do we have a preference in how I split impairments into groups?
<Pendulum> TheMuso AlanBell joanie ^^
<AlanBell> Pendulum: by persona?
<joanie> persona sounds logical to me
<Pendulum> That could work. In that case I would probably change deaf-partially sighted to just deaf
<joanie> btw AlanBell earlier I saw you mention that Orca spoke a password. So lemme tell you how that works:
<joanie> there is an accessible ROLE_PASSWORD_TEXT
<joanie> if that accessible role is exposed properly, Orca should not speak the password
<joanie> depending on your settings it might say "star star star" to confirm character entry
<AlanBell> ok, I have a few bugs for lightdm to raise I think
<joanie> so without looking at it, my guess is taht lightdm has a widget claiming to be ROLE_ENTRY or ROLE_TEXT or ROLE_SOMETHING_ELSE_NOT_PASSWORD_TEXT
 * joanie looks for the doc
<joanie> http://developer.gnome.org/atk/stable/AtkObject.html#AtkRole
<AlanBell> wow
<joanie> AlanBell: include that doc in your bug report
<joanie> to lightdm
<AlanBell> will do
<joanie> and request that all widgets in which the text is masked
<joanie> has ROLE_PASSWORD_TEXT
<joanie> thanks!
<AlanBell> thanks joanie 
<joanie> btw, what toolkit does lightdm use? (save me the google)
<joanie> because ideally, the bug should be fixed at the toolkit level
<joanie> and applications using the toolkit should be able to just set some toolkit-specific, non-a11y property
<joanie> like "mask the characters with bullets 'cause it's a password" property
<joanie> and the toolkit itself would ensure that every widget with that not a11y-specific property set, gets exposed as ATK_ROLE_PASSWORD_TEXT
<joanie> AlanBell: ^
<AlanBell> could be gtk or qt or something else I think
<joanie> :)
<joanie> Gtk+ should already do that correctly
<joanie> fregl: see above and tell me about Qt please
<AlanBell> the unity-greeter package is the lightdm engine that we are using, and that depends on libgtk-3-0 so they are probably abusing the widget in a horrible way
<joanie> ok
<joanie> unless something broke in Gtk+ 3, maybe it is indeed an app rather than a toolkit bug
<AlanBell> Bug #944159 
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 944159 in unity-greeter "orca reads the password out loud" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/944159
 * joanie looks
<AlanBell> Bug #944161
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 944161 in unity-greeter "orca does not read user names" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/944161
<joanie> on the second, I commented, but I will need to set up an environment in which to test that myself
<AlanBell> joanie: one of my side projects is setting up a desktop that can be controlled completely over IRC, so it would be a bot in a channel that goes orca > speech dispatcher > IRC  and you would be able to talk back to it to send keys to the desktop
<joanie> interesting
<AlanBell> good for showing people what the desktop actually speaks, and possibly for running test scripts against it
<joanie> once I get a laptop set up, I see what all needs to be done to simplify your providing the debug output I'd need from Orca
<joanie> once you have a set user, it's easy
<AlanBell> skaet: bug 878184 might be one you would be interested in tracking
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 878184 in unity-greeter "Onscreen Keyboard cannot be used to input password in unity-greeter" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/878184
<Pendulum> joanie: I'm fairly certain it uses GTK
<Pendulum> oops, was scrolled up and din't notice
<Pendulum> yes
<Pendulum> especially because I was going to test this weekend
<skaet> AlanBell,  yes indeed.  thanks!
<AlanBell> https://bugs.launchpad.net/dbusmenu/+bug/878708 has a branch on it to test
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 878708 in dbusmenu "indicator menu items reported as tickboxes by orca" [High,In progress]
<AlanBell> funnily enough that is about widget roles too
<joanie> not entirely surprising, really.
<joanie> We present stuff based on what the stuff is
<joanie> and sadly we don't yet have a good means to identify real purpose
<joanie> but we do have widget roles
<AlanBell> looks like the global menu is an ugly hack altogether, a bunch of checkboxes arranged in a menulike structure
<joanie> I'm just now installing, but which creature is the global menu?
<AlanBell> it is a bit mac like. The menus of applications have been ripped out of the application windows and stuffed into the top panel
<joanie> right
<joanie> so when you say global menu, is it the first menu in the top panel?
<joanie> install is almost done
<joanie> is the crash report dialog not keyboard accessible? 
<joanie> my touchpad is not working at all (though it is detected)
<joanie> and then gnome-control-center died
<joanie> and I cannot click on this thing
<joanie> and I cannot alt+tab to it
<joanie> aha, crashed again and got focus this time. ;)
<joanie> damn lost focus. wtf
<joanie> on a positive note, I can reproduce it
<AlanBell> joanie: things seem to be a bit more crashy than they were a few weeks ago :(
<joanie> btw bug 934053 is going to impact keyboard users
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 934053 in gnome-control-center "gnome-control-center crashed with SIGSEGV in cc_shell_category_view_get_item_view()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/934053
<joanie> and btw2, not present in Fedora rawhide
<joanie> so I don't know if this is an upstream or downstream thing
<AlanBell> thats a bit rubbish isn't it
<joanie> ?
<joanie> I don't mean it in a bad way
<AlanBell> trying to move between any of the sections in gnome control centre with cursor up or down crashes it 
<joanie> aha
<joanie> at some point I can set up yet another environment and build the relevant items from master in ubuntu
<joanie> but right now my goal is to have an environment with shipping/official ubuntu precise + orca from master
<joanie> so I don't want to "taint" this shiny new install with non-ubuntu shipped stuff that is not orca
<joanie> anyhoo, I won't change the priority of bugs, but I think this bug is bigger than "medium"
 * joanie goes back to getting build dependencies
 * AlanBell submits a test case for using unity with Orca
<TheMuso> AlanBell: The check roles for all menu items in dbusmenu is because dbusmenu uses GtkCheckMenuItem. There is a work-around that can be done in dbusmenu to only set the atk role to ATK_ROLE_CHECK_MENU_ITEM if the menu item is set up as a check menu item, but its just a matter of me getting around to doing it.
<TheMuso> Its on my list, but I am currently in the middle of bisecting GTK to try and find a commit that broke GtkTreeViewColumn code causing ubiquity's advanced partitioner to die whenever accessibility is loaded, i.e atk-bridge.
<joanie> wait ... so.....
<joanie> dbusmenu uses GtkCheckMenuItem for things which are not functionally CheckMenuItem's?
<TheMuso> joanie: Yes, because the design didn't think of a11y at first, so it was whatever works visually.
 * joanie nods
<AlanBell> indeed, because if they look the same thats good enough
<TheMuso> And its a bit of a pain to change that now...
<TheMuso> So easier to aply the work-around I mentioned.
<joanie> we need to write a best practices guide (seriously and it's on my list)
<joanie> oh sure re the work-around
<joanie> but this is a perfect example: EITHER the developer doesn't do that OR here's how you work around it (i.e. change the role in the app-level)
<TheMuso> Yeah, we shouldn't really be dealing with roles, unless we are wrapping a toolkit ourselves.
<TheMuso> Speaking of which...
<TheMuso> I am starting to regret not pushing the DX team harder to wrap Nux with atk rather than unity itself, and I am surprised Alejandro didn't push harder as well...
<joanie> ya know, there's a reason why he didn't
<joanie> but I don't recall what it is
<joanie> but he gave it to me
<joanie> so when he's back... ask him
<joanie> (he's on holiday until monday)
<TheMuso> I say this because we have the hud, which is not accessible. Why, because its a new window in unity that needs to be wrapped in atk. Its using the same widgets as the unity dash, but because its a different object in unity's code, it has no unity atk equivalent.
<TheMuso> joanie: Fair enough, but I feel its causing us more grief than its worth.
<AlanBell> I poked gord about that within seconds of it being announced
<joanie> yeah, I don't understand it, but like I said, I've asked and he did have a reason
<AlanBell> trouble is the first we know about stuff like that is seconds after it is announced
<joanie> and it seemed good at the time, I just forget what it is
 * joanie nods
<TheMuso> So for that reason I am pushing Unity 2D as the most accessible of unity environments atm, we just need to get quicklists working.
<TheMuso> joanie: Fair enough./
<joanie> and what exactly is "the hud"?
<TheMuso> And unfortunately my QML knowledge is next to none.
<joanie> you have more than I do then :)
<TheMuso> The Hud is basically a menu search system. You can search through all your menu items to find what you are looking for, this includes indicators as well.
<joanie> how do you invoke it
<joanie> as an aside, this is awesome: there is a command 'huh' from a package 'orville-write'
<joanie> I wish I were clever with package names like that
<TheMuso> Press the alt key I think.
<maco> HUD = Heads Up Display, like all the bits around the edges in video games giving you stats about the character you're about to shoot
<joanie> ah
<AlanBell> maco: now it makes sense to me! I had no idea it was a game thing
 * joanie feels smarter now
<maco> i think there are real ones in the military too
<AlanBell> well apart from flight sim games
<maco> but that could just be movies ;)
<AlanBell> they are real, it is an upwards facing display with an angled glass as a partial mirror or the glass of the cockpit window
<AlanBell> we have a customer that makes the displays for them
<maco> fancy
<joanie> silly question: are items supposed to disappear from the search when you type their full name?
<joanie> sometimes I type too fast and then poof! it's gone
<TheMuso> Not sure.
<TheMuso> I avoid the hud, for obvious reasons.
<joanie> this is alt+f2
<joanie> old habit of mine
<TheMuso> Oh ok.
<TheMuso> Do you mean full name as in the full command? Or the actual long name of the app?
<joanie> and something I cannot explain but is true is that my brain to finger connection is much faster than my brain-to-eye connection
<joanie> actual long name
<joanie> like 'gnome-terminal'
<joanie> mind you, whatever gnome-terminal.wrapper is still is there, but with the cog icon
<TheMuso> Right.
<joanie> so it's easy enough to say "just don't type so much" :)
<joanie> but I find it odd that it disappears as soon as I type its name
<TheMuso> eems to work ok here.
<TheMuso> seems
<joanie> even if you type the full name?
<TheMuso> As in, I type movie player, and movie player shows and stays visible.
 * joanie tries
<joanie> i don't have that app I guess
 * joanie tries another name
<joanie> yeah, if I type rhythbox, it goes away with the x
<maco> i think gnome-terminal is the full command
<joanie> but 'rhythmbox-client' stays visible
<joanie> yeah, it is
<maco> whereas that thing is searching the name, so it'd want gnome terminal, with a space?
<maco> oh hrmph @ rhythmbox
<joanie> oh well
<joanie> I think maybe it's looking one character beyond the search string
<joanie> once the stuff I need is in my dash I will be fine
<TheMuso> Your launcher is even better.
<joanie> is that what it's called
<TheMuso> Unless you find it quicker to just search...
<joanie> the thing on the left
<TheMuso> Which I do actually.
<TheMuso> Right, thats the launcher.
<joanie> ah
<joanie> in gnome-shell
<joanie> the launcher like thing on the left in overview is called the dash
<TheMuso> Right.
<AlanBell> joanie: yes, the HUD does currently penalise people who can type
<AlanBell> it is getting better, but still if you type a correct word and press space it takes the right answer away from you!
<TheMuso> AlanBell: Seems Ted beat me to it, he has a proposed fix for the checkmenu item role issue.
<AlanBell> TheMuso: yes, installing it now
<TheMuso> Cool.
<TheMuso> AlanBell: Note that you may not hear Orca speak any menu items, with the exception of network name menu items in network-manager, due to a change I made to dbusmenu to respect atk docs, and finding out that gtk does not yet respect sed docs. :)
<TheMuso> I have a proposed fix in th emerge queue for it.
<TheMuso> Which involves violating atk docs, at least for now till GTK is fixed.
<AlanBell> joanie: why does orca have a splashscreen?
<TheMuso> AlanBell: TO work around focus issues.
<AlanBell> hmm
<AlanBell> when lightdm starts orca says hello, I start typing my password and the first few letters go to the splashscreen before I can type in the password field
<AlanBell> and it occurred to me that the splashscreen is an odd thing for a screenreader to have
<TheMuso> Urm, the splash screen should not be showing in unity-greeter.
<AlanBell> ok, is that a unity-greeter bug then?
<joanie> TheMuso: we had to change the desktop autostart file
<joanie> for the new cli flag parser
<joanie> if you are keeping your old autostart file
<joanie> you might see the splash screen
<joanie> TheMuso: http://git.gnome.org/browse/orca/commit/?id=1d162c35b1dff4c9b03cbf8a1707d15949ae56dd
<TheMuso> joanie: Yeah I am aware of that, and updated my patch accordingly, but I think the unity-greeter code needs tweaking. I'll take care of that.
<TheMuso> AlanBell: I'll take care of it.
<TheMuso> Sometimes these things are solved more quickly just by working on the code yourself, and I know the code well enough to know exactly what needs changing, and where.
<AlanBell> great, thanks TheMuso 
<TheMuso> lp:~themuso/unity-greeter/fix-orca-cmdline-syntax - Merge proposed.
<TheMuso> Damn I love vala!
 * AlanBell shudders
<AlanBell> all those crazy little c files that turn up
<TheMuso> Yeah but writing vala is not as bad as having to write gobject C at times.
<AlanBell> yeah, just wish it was a real compiler for vala rather than going via c
<AlanBell> took me ages to work out that I shouldn't edit the c files to fix the error messages
<TheMuso> heh right.
<TheMuso> Well if you work in the vcs directly, like unity-greeter, you will note the .c files are not kept around there.
#ubuntu-accessibility 2012-03-02
<fregl> joanie: I don't think that Qt sets role password text. I'm also quite sure that lightdm doesn't use Qt in the ubuntu world. there is a Qt frontend for it, but that is independent. Qt has a state for line edits, the bridge currently ingnores it I presume
<joanie> ok thanks
<joanie> this problem is starting to seem more complex too
<joanie> as it looks like it has the right role
<joanie> I'm looking into it now
<joanie> The problem is that Orca doesn't think it's actually in the password text because we don't have an event for that.
<joanie> The good news is that I suspect that fixing the splash screen/unity greeter bug will solve this too. /me tries
 * fregl writes a patch for qt password fields.
<joanie> :)
<joanie> So AlanBell and TheMuso: The two unity-greeter + Orca bugs mentioned to me seem to be a side effect of the splash screen issue. I have commented on both bug 944161 and 944159 to this effect.
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 944161 in unity-greeter "orca does not read user names" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/944161
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 944159 in unity-greeter "orca reads the password out loud" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/944159
<joanie> Having said that, the real issue is that Orca's splash screen appears, goes away, and nothing in the greeter reclaims focus
<joanie> So you can make the symptoms go away by solving the splash screen
<joanie> but whether or not this will impact some other AT, I couldn't tell you
<joanie> I am wondering why the unity-greeter is not reclaiming focus
<joanie> does anyone happen to know if I can launch ubiquity in an installed ubuntu so that I can debug something?
 * joanie googles
<joanie> win! thanks google! (needed ubiquity-frontend-gtk)
<DomasoFan> hi all. anyone discovered the following: i tried the ubuntu 12.04 daily build recently and wasn't able to go to the start menu. it found the search field but wasn't able to read the menu. it just said panel. also the usermenu and the menu bar which you can reach with f10 is not read out. this tested on unity 2d.
<DomasoFan> so i am back. something threw me out it seems.
<AlanBell> hi DomasoFan 
<AlanBell> yes, there are problems with the menu at the moment
<AlanBell> and the dash and also the unity-greeter
<AlanBell> I am mostly testing in unity 3d, but it is probably the same issues in 2d
<DomasoFan> might be. i also tested unity 3d which also does the same but it doesn't even say panel or finds the search field there.
<AlanBell> I think I will grab todays ISO and try again at doing a screencast
<DomasoFan> thanks for rechecking. i also might recheck and see if it still does that. but 2 days ago including updates it did. tested on vmware. today might test on virtualbox which shouldn't do any differences.
<AlanBell> tedg has done some fixes to the menu, but they kind of had bad side effects (no longer reads them as checkboxes, but no longer reads them at all)
<DomasoFan> ah
<DomasoFan> but you all did a great job making unity 2d quite accessible under ubuntu 11.10. never had a that accessible Ubuntu version here to play with.
<AlanBell> pleased to hear that
<AlanBell> it could be so much better
<AlanBell> oh wow, I managed to start 3 orcas
<DomasoFan> wow. never got that done. *lol*
<DomasoFan> here the new cd from today doesn't even boot it seems.
<DomasoFan> hmm. interesting. the vm unmounted the cd itself or it doesn't got saved. ok let's try again.
<DomasoFan> no. seems to fail here with todays cd.
<DomasoFan> might install using the beta from yesterday and might update. should have the same efect i guess.
<AlanBell> well I booted to ubiquity in virtualbox, I am just filing some bugs then I will go a bit further
<DomasoFan> you where able to boot from todays live cd? using virtualbox 4.1.8 here too.
<AlanBell> Bug #945133
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 945133 in ubiquity "ubiquity can launch multiple orca instances" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/945133
<AlanBell> yes, I used zsync to get it to todays version
<AlanBell> um, then again maybe I am not booting off the right iso
<DomasoFan> is the dvd also accessible? cause the beta1 seems just to be available as a dvd.
<AlanBell> it should be, does it boot to the ubiquity drums?
<AlanBell> I can grab a DVD and test it
<DomasoFan> so. now downloading yesterdays daily cd. fortunately its still around. let's see if that works.
<DomasoFan> so now i have another question. is there also other ubuntu flavours which are accessible or is only the normal ubuntu accessible?
<AlanBell> oh wow, ubiquity suddenly got a lot better
<Pendulum> Parts of Kubuntu are, but you have to install extra things and most things are not accessible
<AlanBell> DomasoFan: I only really test the normal ubuntu install
<Pendulum> I don't know about any of the others. 
<Pendulum> Part of it is that Gnome has the best accessibility out there at the moment, as far as I can tell
<Carcino> DomasoFan: : Hello
<DomasoFan> ah there is a finish person. good evening
<Carcino> Yep, there he is.
<DomasoFan> ah i also heard people successfully using orca with lxde and xfce somehow. lxde works, klaus knopper uses it for his knoppix adriane system.
<Carcino> Yeah, though as far as I know it doesn't work out of the box in most cases.
<DomasoFan> no it seems not. you have to fiddle around with things i heard.
<Carcino> Somewhat, yes. I should find me a blank cd where to burn the Ubuntu 12.04 beta image. I've screwed up orca in my 11.10 installation so can't update without a cd.
<DomasoFan> i try yesterdays daily cd on virtualbox. cause the cd of today seems not to boot. the beta 1 is just a dvd i have seen.
<Carcino> Ah, that works too, assuming my drive would behave for once.
<Carcino> Have you enabled pae in the cpu settings? Ubuntu won't boot without it.
<DomasoFan> today the vm crashed in a very interesting way. the installer fell oever and it detected that and decided to relogin and i had to start ubiquity manually. then it seemed to know what i have selected and entered it for me. quite interesting.
<DomasoFan> this was with ubuntu 11.10
<DomasoFan> hmm. is this off by default when you select ubuntu as the OS?
<Carcino> Strangely, yes.
<DomasoFan> weird. thanks for telling me. funnily ubuntu 11.10 booted. the weird was only that the vdi file was bigger than a vmdk file with the same data inside.
<AlanBell> DomasoFan: it seems that when you open the dash (pressing super) it is an empty screen so nothing to navigate to until you type something in the search field
<AlanBell> I can't switch to the different lenses
<AlanBell> if I type "ter" then I can navigate down to the terminal button
<AlanBell> now installing the virtualbox drivers to get to unity 3d
<DomasoFan> here installing the OS now. it works with yesterdays cd now.
<DomasoFan> now back to your brevieous message. when you don't enter things than just scrolling down you might get just the name panel spoken. in ubuntu 11.10 you where able to select those buttons with the different categories and also a more apps button.
<AlanBell> yes, but it is just empty in precise unity2d. I think it shows recent applications and files and as you have not used any there is nothing to show
<AlanBell> they got rid of the 8 buttons on the first page of the dash
<AlanBell> and yes, the menus are broken
<DomasoFan> ah thats why the dash is empty. thought it was broken too cause orca just said panel.
<DomasoFan> wonder how a ubuntu phone would like in the next year or so when the first ones are released. the whole ubuntu on a phone actually would work pretty fine i guess.
<DomasoFan> well hardware wise
<DomasoFan> can someone tell me how to see all installed apps in the dash? is there no keyword which i can enter to show all programs? i also entered more or all but that seems not to work. *grin*
<AlanBell> DomasoFan: not sure you can unless there is a way to get to the apps lens
<AlanBell> which normally you would do by going down to the bottom then left and right through the available lenses
<AlanBell> looks like super+A should be a shortcut to get to the apps lens
<DomasoFan> yeah that works when you know what you are looking for when you enter stuff. but when you just want to see whats installed you are quite out right now. let's hope they implement something useful.
<AlanBell> it looks like if you press "a" then go down you get an applications category
<AlanBell> oh, that isn't all of them, just ones containing a
<DomasoFan> hehe. so you need go through the alphhabet.
<AlanBell> well not sure how many applications don't contain a vowel somewhere!
<DomasoFan> maybe removing the all apps button was not that a good idea it seems.
<AlanBell> well it is there, just can't navigate to it
<AlanBell> I will file a bug
<AlanBell> bug #945220 
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 945220 in unity-2d "lens switching is not keyboard navigable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/945220
<DomasoFan> thanks. so i am off after updating. *grin*. we have tomorrow a torball match to play and i guess they would be happy when i would be awaken while this happens. so thanks to talk to you. good night.
#ubuntu-accessibility 2012-03-03
<Pendulum> AlanBell: ping
<AlanBell> Pendulum: o/
<Pendulum> I'm looking at personas now
<Pendulum> one thing I was thinking about last night is that usually Personas don't actually mention the software they're for at all
<Pendulum> they're about the computer needs and the person, not the software
<Pendulum> (I suspect this is so they can be used universally)
<Pendulum> would you object if I pulled out some of the specifics and put it down as a sepeare section below?
<AlanBell> sure
<AlanBell> as in that is fine, I won't object :)
<Pendulum> so saying things like "he uses a screen reader" rather than "he uses Orca" and then at the bottom put a section about Ubuntu specifics (so the software he uses, etc.)
<AlanBell> oh I see, yes that is fine
<Pendulum> I'm working on Simon now
<AlanBell> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/simon
<Pendulum> yeah, I know :)
<AlanBell> for the benefit of others :)
<Pendulum> I'm just thinking about how to make these more universal so they can be used together and separately as needed
<Pendulum> I know the Gnome folks would like to be able to add them to their resources for personas, for example
<Pendulum> did we ever discuss what we're using for license? Should we just stay with what the wiki is?
<Pendulum> it's CC BY-SA which makes sense to me
<AlanBell> yes a CC license makes the most sense I think
 * Pendulum has just tweeted
<Pendulum> I'm not quite sure I have correct wording for the part of "How to be Simon" I just edited, does someone else want to look at it?
<AlanBell> it looks OK to me
<Pendulum> okay
<AlanBell> I have to go do some stuff, I will be doing more on this later on
<Pendulum> I'm doing the Why A Challenge section and then I feel like it just needs to be proofread and it'll be good to go
<Pendulum> so I'll move on to John when I finish Simon
<AlanBell> hi, I am back
<AlanBell> car is washed now
<Pendulum> always good
<Pendulum> I'm kinda stuck at doing any more with Simon so if you want to look it over, that one might be done :)
<AlanBell> ok
<AlanBell> lets put that one in a blog article and get pictures and layout right now
<Pendulum> do you want to proofread it first?
<Pendulum> (I know that if I try to, it won't go well)
<AlanBell> yeah, reading through it now
<AlanBell> looks good, Experience goals is empty, not quite sure what should go in there
<Pendulum> just put something in
<Pendulum> behaviours is also empty
<Pendulum> (just noticed)
<Pendulum> just stuck something in there too
<Pendulum> hi brunogirin 
<brunogirin> hi Pendulum! I just dropped by to see if I could help with the persona writing
<Pendulum> great!
<Pendulum> we're finishing up Simon (as you can see). He's partially sighted (in the process of becoming fully blind). Feel free to jump in and make changes if you see things that need to be fixed :)
<Pendulum> AlanBell: the accessing the menu bar in beta1 is still broken, right?
<AlanBell> it is
<AlanBell> well you can access it, but it is silent
<Pendulum> (someone posted to the list so I wanted to be able to say, yes, that's a known issue)
<AlanBell> it only reads out the shortcuts
<Pendulum> jvesouza: Hi, I was just replying to your e-mail. The short answer is, yes, it's broken and that's a known issue.
<Pendulum> f10 is actually accessing the menu bar, but it's not reading it out. It's only reading out the shortcuts
<Pendulum> (information provided by AlanBell)
<jvesouza> Pendulum: OK, thanks!
<jvesouza> Pendulum:  At least I am not doing something wrong!
<Pendulum> I think we're trying to get it fixed for Beta2, but I'm not sure.
<Pendulum> (I don't code and while I remember having a conversation with Luke about it, I don't have memory of what was said for timing)
<brunogirin> Pendulum: the Simon persona looks good to me, just corrected a minor typo :-)
<Pendulum> oh, good. I can't proofread my own work and I can't proofread things I've read too many times (like the persona)
<AlanBell> jvesouza: one thing that has just been done is the code to stop everything being a checkbox menu item
<Pendulum> I just learned that Australia has it's own sign language, interesting.
<brunogirin> all the personas so far have a condition that is either congenital or that gradually deteriorate
<brunogirin> are there any plans to have a persona that has had a sudden change, like Jakie in diveintoaccessibility: http://diveintoaccessibility.info/day_1_jackie.html ?
<AlanBell> we were kind of going for a minimum number of personas required to cover all the areas we wanted
<jvesouza> Pendulum: AlanBell I will teach linux to some people in Brasil and I'd like to use ubuntu 12.04 because its accessibility.
<AlanBell> excellent jvesouza 
<brunogirin> AlanBell: makes sense, I'm just wondering if there are specific challenges there that are not covered by the others
<Pendulum> brunogirin: I was thinking of making Heniretta, our persona cognative impairments as someone who had traumatic brain injury (TBI)
<Pendulum> *Henrietta
<jvesouza> AlanBell:  All blind, including myself.
<Pendulum> I'm giving myself a crash-course in technical universities and deaf schools in Australia
 * Pendulum goes for a lunch break
<Pendulum> but I'm back
<AlanBell> hi Pendulum 
#ubuntu-accessibility 2012-03-04
<TheAscended> Hello
<TheAscended> If i needed help installing a package, who should i talk to?
<JanC> TheAscended: what help do you need?
<JanC> did
<TheAscended> I'm not sure if I still need any. I was trying to install AlephOne to run a game called marathon, and seemed to be lacking libvorbis-dev package
<TheAscended> but once I saw that was the package now, Its currently installing
<jalcine> AlanBell: ping
<AlanBell> hi
<jalcine> I was curious about your opinion on this application I've been hacking away at for weeks now.
<jalcine> It's at https://github.com/jalcine/speechcontrol. I tried to make the INSTALL file and the README as verbose as need-be.
<jalcine> I think that I and Adrian (the other committer) are getting closer to flustering with a release of it.
#ubuntu-accessibility 2013-02-25
<Fudge> hi
<leptone_> im looking for a good text-to-speech solution that allows me to highlight text in my browser and have that read. Does anyone know of a good one?
#ubuntu-accessibility 2013-03-03
<Guest94515> oops
#ubuntu-accessibility 2014-02-28
<guest6019532> hello
<guest6019532> i came here because of the following bug:
<guest6019532> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pulseaudio/+bug/932834
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 932834 in pulseaudio (Ubuntu Raring) "Enable equalizer" [Wishlist,Triaged]
<guest6019532> is anyone here who could comment on this? is there any chance this bug could be fixed for trusty (14.04)?
<guest6019532> some more info:
<guest6019532> http://www.webupd8.org/2013/03/install-pulseaudio-with-built-in-system.html
<guest6019532> https://sites.google.com/site/nevion/projects/qpaeq
<guest6019532> it would be much appreciated
<guest6019532> TheMuso: you have commented on the bug on launchpad. are you there?
#ubuntu-accessibility 2015-02-23
<Fudge> TheMuso:  there were some dns entries that had to propigate
<TheMuso> Fudge: Ah ok.
<TheMuso> c
<Fudge> TheMuso:  PING irc.blufudge.com (8.43.65.165) 56(84) bytes of data.
<Fudge> it's working now
<Fudge> thats better
