#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-03-28
<gamerchick02> the computer is quieter? did you clean it or something?
<rick_h_> muzzle
<Blazeix> he shot it with a 12-gauge.
<rick_h_> and some training
<gamerchick02> ah. ok...
<rick_h_> http://techie-buzz.com/tech-news/mysql-com-database-compromised-sql-injection.html
<gamerchick02> why would one shoot a computer? *confused*
<rick_h_> ok, excuse me while I roll on the floor laughing for the next 10min
<Blazeix> they've started cracking the passwords. Apparently their product manager's password is "6661"
<rick_h_> gotta love it
<rick_h_> of course each time I see these things I get afraid of what if it was my company
 * rick_h_ puts some more spackle on that bunker of his
<snap-l> Wow... just... wow
<snap-l> I cleaned out the computer
<snap-l> Took it apart to dust out the insides wit compressed air and a  vacuum cleaner
<snap-l> Now all I can smell is that bloody bitterant they use in the Endust can
<gamerchick02> wow. cool, snap-l.
<gamerchick02> gotta do that every once in awhile.
<snap-l> Yeah, hadn't done it in a while
<gamerchick02> i should pull my laptop apart and clean it.
<gamerchick02> heh
<gamerchick02> on that note, i'm migrating to the couch. maybe i ought to have another glass of wine?
<gamerchick02> hrm.
<gamerchick02> i'll be on tomorrow. see ya'll later?
<aupif> greg-g: hey, man. it's roy from wikipedians. finally made it out to this channel.
<_stink_> any friend of greg-g's is a friend of ours.
<greg-g> aupif: hiya! welcome to the channel :)
<aupif> thanks!
<aupif> I was going to email you, but maybe the library could display our flyer (or something similar) on those screens downstairs
<aupif> until the screening
<aupif> I think we'd get a lot of randoms that way
<greg-g> yeah, I was going to try and figure that out, I'll let you know
<aupif> k, thanks.
<greg-g> thanks for the reminder
<jrwren> i'm a little surprised by this, can anyone else confirm? I'm seeing a web client that sends a couple of HTTP Headers before the actually request.
<jrwren> *actual* request
<jrwren> Content-Location: url
<jrwren> and then the Post /blah
<rick_h_> sure it's the same request? and not a second one?
<rick_h_> http://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc2616/rfc2616-sec8.html#sec8.1.2.2
<rick_h_> http://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc2616/rfc2616-sec8.html#sec8.2.3
<rick_h_> are a couple of situatinos where headers pre-request are valid
<rick_h_> jrwren: ^^
<jrwren> i'm positive its the same request.
<jrwren> TY
<jrwren> i'm going to emulate the original behavior whether it is bad or not :)
<rick_h_> ok, I guess I missed what the question was
<rick_h_> but cool party one!
<rick_h_> /one/on
<jrwren> rick_h_: you win, i think it was part of a different request.
<snap-l> man, I have a lot of old shit on my computer
<snap-l> lots of old dotfiles from when I had dialup access
<snap-l> finally figured out why my hostname completiong suddenly stopped working
<snap-l> I'd type in ssh dec[tab], and it would display shit like 127.0.0.1, ic.net, etc
<snap-l> Apparently I had a .ssh2 directory with those entries in it
<snap-l> https://twitter.com/zedshaw/statuses/52187975001456641
<jrwren> lol.
<jrwren> stupid .ssh2
<jrwren> glad they rolled back that default
<snap-l> ugh
<snap-l> two power outages last night that tripped the UPS
<rick_h_> snap-l: your power hates you
<rick_h_> love this: http://daniel-database.blogspot.com/2011/03/sql-injection-on-mysqlcom.html
<rick_h_> "hacked", if you can call it that, really it was a brief sharing of information we were going to put out anyway, like people's auth credentials
<brousch> wow, did rick_h_ write this? http://teddziuba.com/2011/03/osx-unsuitable-web-development.html
<brousch> nvm, it pimps emacs nstead of vim
<rick_h_> hah, that was what I used to throw off the scent
<rick_h_> but beyond that "AMEN!!!"
<brousch> the package management is what i miss most compared to ubuntu
<rick_h_> But really, Mac developers, stay out of the command line. You'll hurt yourselves.
<rick_h_> lolololololol
<rick_h_> he's right to an extent, you should be as close to production as possible
<rick_h_> learn those hard lessons about setup/pain points in performance, etc early
<brousch> how do you get close to production if your production environment is half a dozen VMs running bits and pieces of the program?
<brousch> or GAE?
<rick_h_> well, AE the best you can do is make sure you're running their IDE/vm on something they support
<rick_h_> but still, a half dozen VM's still run XXX for an OS
<rick_h_> I'm not saying setup a VM env that duplicates all the machines on your network
<rick_h_> but he's right, things like python packages that use C extensions, should be built/dev'd tested on the OS they'll get deployed to
<rick_h_> those are the things that will be different OSX/Linux of your choice, and bite you when you're not expecting it
<brousch> ah
<rick_h_> I know plenty of people that use OSX for dev work, but I also see a ton of people "dammit, why can't I get {db binding here} to work right, or paramiko, etc"
<brousch> postgres and mysql installs are both annoying in osx
<brousch> half the time i make a little ubuntu server vm to use for DB
<snap-l> There's some valid points, but that article is flawed
<snap-l> The UNIX way is to compile from source
<rick_h_> oh come on, how many companies deploy to 'compiled from source'?
<snap-l> And we have a WINNER!
<snap-l> ;)
<rick_h_> the argument isn't package vs source, but "as a dev, get close to production"
<rick_h_> j
<_stink_> Down arrow
<rick_h_> boooo
<_stink_> hehe
<snap-l> http://i.imgur.com/ZyeCO.jpg
<rick_h_> lol, nice
<rick_h_> brousch: need to chat, /me needs graphics helps
<snap-l> I think I have ab uilding wire fault that's causing the problem with my UPS
<snap-l> s/uilding/building/
<_stink_> :/
<snap-l> Yeah, not fun
<snap-l> Though I have a sneaking suspicion that the reason we're not in happy electricville is because they swapped meters a while ago
<snap-l> ever since that happened, I've been having electrical problems
<snap-l> (causality)
<_stink_> for sure
<rick_h_> ouch
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=120R2-phK0U&feature=autoshare
<greg-g> http://teddziuba.com/2011/03/osx-unsuitable-web-development.html (thanks lmorchard)
<brousch> rick_h_: what's up?
<jcastro> greg-g: fixed that for you: "osx is an unsuitable platform"
<greg-g> jcastro: yeah, he was a tad generous :)
<rick_h_> hah
<rick_h_> we were discussing this earlier
<rick_h_> brousch: bookie icon, have two ideas for you if you think you might be interested in helping
<brousch> i can give it a try
<greg-g> yay, icons!
<rick_h_> brousch: pm me an email I can share a google doc with you pls
<brousch> brousch@gmail.com
<rick_h_> ok, sent, snap-l and greg-g as well, feedback at will
<rick_h_> Blazeix: don't have you in my gmail, but if you send it I'll add you as well
<brousch> second one would be easier i think, but would lose a lot at low res
<rick_h_> so the ookie part is just for reference
<rick_h_> in the web ui and such I'd add that in
<rick_h_> the B is the icon concept on both
<greg-g> I did it all for the ookie
<brousch> and we have a theme song
<rick_h_> yea, at small icon I wasn't sure which would come out cleaner
<greg-g> brousch: :)
<rick_h_> since the one is more graphic makes up the letter, but the other, you need to see the letter and the bookmark paper bits might not be clear
<brousch> right, you'll lose the paper at small size
<rick_h_> anyone have opinions/etc?
<rick_h_> alternative ideas?
<brousch> might be able to do a stack of books, end-on and have it survive
<_stink_> rick_h_: can you email the mockups to me?
<rick_h_> decided in playing with the extension and having 3 different delicious icons in my toolbar right now it needs to change lol
<rick_h_> _stink_: emaield
<rick_h_> err, emailed
<rick_h_> might work better
<_stink_> thanks!
<_stink_> i actually like the idea for the first one better
<_stink_> i like having a bold B on the book cover instead of having the books in the shape of a B.
<rick_h_> _stink_: cool, I was leaning that way as well, but it seems harder to make the book look like a book at icon size
<_stink_> how many pixels are we talking?
<snap-l> I have an idea for the B
<snap-l> I'll scan it in in a sec
<greg-g> rick_h_: / brousch here are some public domain book icons to take a look at and see if they are useful as building blocks: http://www.diigo.com/list/greg-g/bookie
<greg-g> and _stink_ / snap-l as well, now that I caught up with who all is talking about it :)
<greg-g> favicons are most commonly 16x16, btw
<rick_h_> _stink_: docs say to provide a 128, 48, and 16 versions
<greg-g> yeah
<_stink_> if i were up to me, i'd assume the 16x16 will be very different, and make the bigger ones looks good.
<greg-g> and bigger versions for other uses, of course. Also, the 16x16 version acn just be a simplified version (duh)
<_stink_> but maybe this is anti-branding.
<_stink_> right
<_stink_> ok
<brousch> i think the 128, 64, and 48 are for mobile "desktop" shortcuts
<greg-g> I mean, Wikipedia has that big puzzleglobe for their big icon, but just a stylized "W" as their favicon
<rick_h_> problem is the best icons work small as well
<greg-g> brb, heating up lunch
<rick_h_> http://www.delicious.com/deuce868 upper left for delicious, hmm, instapaper doesn't even have one
<snap-l> http://ubuntuone.com/p/jrl/
<_stink_> heh, just realized i never see favicons because i use vimperator.
<snap-l> Here's an idea for an icon
<snap-l> The B with a longer bookmark
<rick_h_> I think the 3rd, bottom right
<snap-l> which almost looks like a snake's tongue
<rick_h_> I was going through images earch results for bookmarkk last night
<rick_h_> and it's a tough one, not a lot of real options
<rick_h_> but I find I use post-it notes for the most part
<snap-l> I do too
<_stink_> crap, i wish i had a scanner nearby.
<rick_h_> and saw some like that and figured that might be cool
<rick_h_> so I was trying to figure out how to get post-it notes into a design to mean bookmarks
<snap-l> rick_h_: I think you need to go more oldschool
<snap-l> otherwise it just looks like paper
<snap-l> or a bar-graph. ;)
<rick_h_> what if it's not the whole book
<rick_h_> but only the last couple inches with the paper hanging out the end?
<rick_h_> so the B moves to the font/normal text
<_stink_> if bookmarks end up as part of the icon, maybe putting clean little tassels on the end of them would help
<_stink_> to make it obvious what they are
<rick_h_> but tassles disappear at small size
<_stink_> that is true.
<rick_h_> updated the gdoc
<snap-l> I think too that the sans-serif font isn't going to work.
<snap-l> I was thinking of something like Droid serif italicized
<rick_h_> well yea, but just default font there for the doc
<snap-l> Ah, OK
<rick_h_> concentrating on the image part
<snap-l> OK
<rick_h_> yea, will make the font pretty/etc but really, just not having a toolbar icon is what's provoking this, didn't want to deal with it yet tbh
<snap-l> heh
<rick_h_> time to code vs design crap
<rick_h_> http://goo.gl/pgbKO
<rick_h_> I really like that idea, the angle book thing with the bmark out the top?
<snap-l> That's the stuff of nightmares
<rick_h_> not the bmark in use, but the book itself
<tjagoda> snap-l: ping
<rick_h_> would do something at that angle with paper stuff
<tjagoda> You use amazon mp3 store, right?
<rick_h_> amazon mp3 ftw
<_stink_> rick_h_: just shared a slightly changed mockup with you
<_stink_> mostly like the first one
<tjagoda> Does it work well on 10.10?
<rick_h_> _stink_: ok, feel free to edit the original doc though
<tjagoda> and also, do they DRM/
<snap-l> tjagoda: NFC, I use Banshee
<tjagoda>  / = ?
<_stink_> ok, i'll throw it on there instead
<_stink_> hah, too bad i can't copy/paste from one google drawing to another.
<rick_h_> _stink_: yea, so I originall thoguht something like that, except that the icons are square, so you have more room if you make the bookbmark papers out the end
<rick_h_> vs a very vertical icon that way
<_stink_> rick_h_: yeah, i see what you mean.
<_stink_> maybe having it tilted like http://www.openclipart.org/detail/101017
<_stink_> would solve that
<_stink_> fwiw.
<rick_h_> yea, that's what that link above was for
<rick_h_> more a, go iso and only use the top of the book as an icon
<_stink_> hmm
<snap-l> God, I really hate INkscape
<greg-g> heh
<tjagoda> rick_h: Does amazon do DRM?
<rick_h_> tjagoda: thought they were drm-free mp3 files
<rick_h_> http://www.amazon.com/gp/dmusic/help/faq.html
<rick_h_> "All our songs are in MP3 format and are free from DRM (digital rights management), so you can play them in any music program and on any MP3 device, including the iPod"
<brousch> inkscape is awesome
<_stink_> pretty funny to think about folks watching me struggle with google draw
<snap-l> http://ubuntuone.com/p/jru/
<tjagoda> mmmmm
<tjagoda> no drm
<snap-l> tjagoda: If you're buying music online with DRM, you're doing it wrong
<tjagoda> Perhaps you missed to "NO" in that post?
<tjagoda> =P
<rick_h_> snap-l: ok, so close the serifs of the B off and have some page edge lines in there so the end of the b looks like a book with a marker hanging out and I'm sold
<snap-l> tjagoda: I'm saying that it's not uncommon anymore
<brousch> _stink_: you don't need a scanner when you have a camera in your pocket
<brousch> you could use the tilted book then have each letter in "bookie" on its own book mark sticking out the top
<_stink_> brousch: i have a symbian s60 phone.  i do not know an easy way to share my pictures...
<_stink_> brousch++
<_stink_> i was thinking that
<_stink_> at least having the most prominent bookmark have a B at the top
<rick_h_> hmmm, yea and at 16x16 it would just be the book with the marks
<rick_h_> no text
<brousch> the 16x16 would have a little triangle and some squares. if it matched the color scheme of the original it might mesh well
<rick_h_> right
<snap-l> http://ubuntuone.com/p/jru/ again (once it loads)
<brousch> i probably won't fire up inkscape until tomorrow. big grwebdev meeting tonight so it's crazy day
<snap-l> u1 is taking it's sweet time to upload the latest change
<rick_h_> brousch: no problem at all, thanks for thinking about it a bit
<brousch> the B is farting fire!
<_stink_> hot sauce!
<rick_h_> lol
<snap-l> Nice.. u1conflict.
<brousch> you could form that B from a bookmark hanging the length in back and two big books in front
<snap-l> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9058804/bookie.svg.u1conflict
<rick_h_> hmm, maybe take the idea straight up
<Blazeix> rick_h_: wafuqua@gmail.com, btw
<Blazeix> also, I have icons I've been using for the chrome extension
<snap-l> If you go up, then you run out of space
<Blazeix> just googled "bookie" and found that most oldtime bookies apparently wore green visors.
<Blazeix> so i've been using http://frabjous.ath.cx/files/upload/bookie.png and http://frabjous.ath.cx/files/upload/bookie_bookmarked.png
<Blazeix> since I was worried Blogger had the mindshare on B-related icons.
<_stink_> heh, that's a neat play
<rick_h_> Blazeix: yea, I thought about that, but I don't want to go with the gambler image
<rick_h_> I figure it'll be hard enough to get the bookie into bookmarks play without going the other way
<Blazeix> yeah, true. Though if you go with a 1920s style bookie you don't get into the 'dirty gambler' stereotype
<Blazeix> something like this guy: http://www.best-of-web.com/_images_300/Vintage_Banker_or_Bookie_100604-006385-339042.jpg
<snap-l> Because that's the first thing I think of when I think of bookies (accountants)
<snap-l> (not really)
<rick_h_> ah, yea when I did a search to see if the name was taken in the software space I ran into a ton of gambling stuff
<rick_h_> wasn't thinking old school acct's
<snap-l> I think we should call it John Smith
<snap-l> That's the name that Doctor Who uses whenever he tells someone his name
<brousch> ok, two concepts before i get out of here
<snap-l> and it'll be great for Google Searches. :)
<brousch> 1. space out ribbons more http://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/IMG_20110328_122430.jpg
<brousch> 2. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/IMG_20110328_122416.jpg
<brousch> small version loses text on ribon, but retains the shape and colors
<snap-l> I'm not a fan of angled icons like that
<snap-l> doesn't scale,I'm afraid
<snap-l> But I do like the multi-bookmarks out of a book idea
<rick_h_> I've updated the 3rd view in the google doc and thinking about that
<rick_h_> actual work came down the pipe so have to go do taht for a bit
<rick_h_> thanks for the ideas everyone, crap. Thought I knew what I wanted and then I don't gah!
<greg-g> :)
<jrwren> snap-l: lol @ book a week -> book a month.
<jrwren> were they to be tech books?
<jrwren> or fiction?
<jrwren> scifi?
<jrwren> zomg ninkendo_ !!!
<jrwren> ninkendo_: I had dinner with Justin Burdine last Thursday. he is well.
<snap-l> jrwren: Both
<jrwren> is patrick still in here?
<rick_h_> jcastro: http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/11/03/28/1716239/Intel-Replaces-Consumer-SSD-Line-Nixes-SLC-SSD?from=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+slashdot%2FeqWf+%28Slashdot%3A+Slashdot%29&utm_content=Google+Reader
<rick_h_> crap, sorry
<jcastro> it doesn't bench too well unfortunately
<jcastro> first the 510 and now this. :-/
<jcastro> it's like they stopped caring
<rick_h_> :(
 * jcastro is waiting for the vertex 3 this month
<rick_h_> guess it's time to drop the intel
<jcastro> this drive makes sense as a middle of the road drive
<jcastro> it's the 510 that makes no sense whatsoever
<rick_h_> yea
<snap-l> #Eventually it'll sort itself out
<snap-l> There's only enough room at the bleeding edge before folks stop caring, and start going consumer
<snap-l> s/consumer/cheaper/
<snap-l> This is interesting
<snap-l> Ordered a Legacy recording from Amazon
<snap-l> and they essentially burned me a CD-R of it
<snap-l> I'll have to bring it in to the next event. Pretty wild.
<rick_h_> http://www.istockphoto.com/stock-illustration-14111879-book-icon.php?st=20f57f9 I like a lot
<rick_h_> really? interesting
<snap-l> rick_h_: I really like that
<snap-l> rick_h_: Yeah, first I've seen this
<snap-l> (the burned CD-R). Almost like what Magnatune sent out back when
<rick_h_> snap-l: yea, emailed the author to see what it could cost to get some custom color and the B onto the cover
<brousch> geez, nice
<brousch> i'm always amazed at what real graphics artists come up with compared to me
<rick_h_> hmmm, so what license would I need to get I wonder
<rick_h_> crazy
<rick_h_> boo, can't use in any logo?
<brousch> it doesn't look that hard to make
<rick_h_> yea, I'll see what the author says first
<rick_h_> since it's his thing, I'd feel better if I paid him for it and such
<rick_h_> but worst case yea, I guess I'll go another route
<snap-l> Bah, I keep forgetting to mention to tjagoda re: RIM's two CEOs
 * snap-l is listening to Wendy Carlos' Beauty and the Beast
<snap-l> and I have to say, it's pretty damn challenging
<brousch> are you going to cry?
<snap-l> No, I'm not
<snap-l> Have you heard it?
<brousch> no
<jrwren> so those two CEO's, i guess they got rim jobs
<snap-l> bah dump chish
<snap-l> http://www.appleoutsider.com/2011/03/25/rimm/
<snap-l> They also have three COOs
<brousch> ooooh http://developers.slashdot.org/story/11/03/28/1634259/Java-Creator-James-Gosling-Hired-At-Google
<snap-l> brousch: Yeah, Google wants the creator of each of the languages they use on the payroll
<snap-l> (credit to Twitter for that one)
<snap-l> http://www.rim.com/newsroom/mediaexecutive/index.shtml
<snap-l> Jeez, too many Chiefs in the kitchen
<brousch> geez you're right. guido is there too
<jrwren> Strastrup isn't.
<snap-l> jrwren: Nobody would hire Stroustrup
<jrwren> lol. TRUTH
<snap-l> You know, that quote of him hoping that computers would be as easy to use as his telephone? C++ is sure as fuck not the way to get from point A to point B.
<snap-l> Mind you, we've moved the goalposts since then, but still. ;)
<jrwren> actually... smart phones are exactly what he said.
<snap-l> metaphorically, yes
<snap-l> they're not the same thing as a desktop computer (yet)
<snap-l> though the lines are definitely becoming blurrier each day
<jrwren> they are more of a personal ocmputer htan a desktop computer is a personal computer.
<snap-l> Um, now you're redefining the personal computer. :)
<snap-l> Remember that even the lowly Altair was a "personal computer"
<jrwren> no i'm not.
<jrwren> and that is exactly my point.
<jrwren> its subjective, right?
<jrwren> its more personal for some people, because some people use it more.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-03-29
<TeamXlink> lol
<TeamXlink> http://static.onemansblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/Daisy_Chain_Forklifts.jpg
<jjesse> wow this signed online
<jjesse> what a crappy hotel
<rick_h_> signed online?
<jjesse> i couldn't get IRC to connect
<greg-g> rick_h_: for scheduling/queueing of tasks in a web environment, celery and rabbitmq is what you use/recommend?
<rick_h_> greg-g: I think that works well for us. Honestly, there's a ton of ways to do it and it depends on the project/etc.
<rick_h_> but yea, rabbitmq is good for queueing, and if you need scheduling, celery works great for talking to it, handling that part
<rick_h_> snap-l: have I told you how much I <3 amazon lately? lol cloud drive music bitches! Awesome
<rick_h_> yay, and the ifanbois get to suck it for now! http://techcrunch.com/2011/03/28/amazon-cloud-player-ios/
<rick_h_> uploading to my cloud drive, woooo
<rick_h_> damn sucky work internet, sad that my uverse is faster at home
<brousch> welcome to the cloud. enjoy your new wings
<brousch> how's the bookie logo going?
<rick_h_> brousch: I found something I liked, but waiting to hear back from the designer about cost/tweaks
<rick_h_> can't use it for a 'logo' use according to license currently
<brousch> ah, right
<rick_h_> guy's in finland or something so figure it might take a few days, who knows.
<brousch> i played with a nook color running cyanogen. very nice
<brousch> good size, fast
<rick_h_> cool
<rick_h_> was worried about performance since it's a bit underpowered
<brousch> he had it overclocked to 1GHz i think
<rick_h_> ah, gotcha
<brousch> so faster than my droid
<rick_h_> man, bummer I don't think I can link out of my amazon cloud drive
<rick_h_> so not going to replace dropbox :(
<brousch> i <3 drpbox
<rick_h_> yea, but this is $20/yr for 20gb
<brousch> hm, good price
<rick_h_> I'd almost give up the sync part to just use it as a web storage
<rick_h_> pycon caused craig and I to have to upgrade our dropbox to swap the files around
<rick_h_> which sucked, since I had thuoght I could just upgrade since it's my shared directory
<brousch> i think it counts towards everyone using that folder
<rick_h_> yea, it sucks
<brousch> you could have just uploaded to a web share and had him download it
<brousch> one of the best things about my $15/mo dreamhost is the unlimited disk space
<rick_h_> yea, we thought about that, but dropbox does well with overnight uploads, he needs to send back .mp3, etc
<rick_h_> used my tethered phone some and it dropped in/out in the basement of the convention center
<brousch> ah
<rick_h_> I mean I don't mind dropbox/giving them money, but when I saw $20/yr I was like oooh
<brousch> right
<brousch> if dropbox had a 200GB plan i would be using it for all of my backup needs
<brousch> i went over 100GB so i had to switch to carbonite and reduce my dropbox
<rick_h_> yea, I have the local backuppc running for backups
<rick_h_> it's more for files I want to get on my phone, sync with craig
<brousch> you could make a script to share things out of the cloud storage. pick a file and it copies it out of the cloud to S3 and returns the link to you
<rick_h_> yea, I've started some of that.
<brousch> i knew it was too obvious ;)
<rick_h_> I've got a s3cp.py that copies the lococast files and such up to medial.lococast.net and uploads.mitechie.com for me
<rick_h_> http://media.lococast.net/index.html
<rick_h_> all our podcasts are served out of s3
<rick_h_> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/267/ need to work on it some more still
<brousch> geez
<brousch> you go all out on these things
<rick_h_> funny, I see stuff like this now and I think 'competition!' http://www.readwriteweb.com/hack/2011/03/gitmarks-a-bookmark-sharing-system-built-on-git.php
<rick_h_> brousch: ??
<rick_h_> with zsh history completion I just search for public in my history and generally pulls up:  s3cp.py --bucket=uploads.mitechie.com --public awesome3.png  or some other sample
<rick_h_> I got a start of the script from some blog post I think
<rick_h_> and rewrote most of it up for my needs
<brousch> i would have about 10 lines of code in a __main__. no logs, no classes, no comments
<brousch> no error checking
<rick_h_> well, it was a chance for me to play with argparse I thnk
<rick_h_> heh, well what if an error happens :P
<brousch> cursing and throwing things
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> well, what it needs now is the return link support you mentioned
<rick_h_> and some completion would be cool, need to figure out how to cache/setup your 'buckets' you work with
<brousch> hm, nook color is only $250
 * brousch feels his wallet itching
<_stink_> hmorning
<rick_h_> party
<_stink_> looks like it
<snap-l> rick_h_: Why am I getting told about Amazin this fine morning?
<rick_h_> because I'm jamming at work to my amazon mp3s via web ui :)
<brousch> snap-l: cause ur an amazin guy?
<rick_h_> and listened to them over 3g on the way into work via my android app
<snap-l> rick_h_: Ah, so you're using bandwidth for your own personal music delivery service.
<rick_h_> yes
<rick_h_> most definitely, and to upload more of my own albums up to it
<snap-l> You realize that bandwidth is a precious commodity
<snap-l> For every song you've streamed, you've used up bandwidth that could have been used for other things
<rick_h_> oh I know, the pron industry must be shuddering
<snap-l> Students in Rochester schools could have discovered a cure for some heinous disease if only wikipedia had loaded in time before their ADD kicked in
<snap-l> The company could have landed a major contract if only the secretary's e-mail had arrived in time, no thanks to your music streaming
<snap-l> You're killing the internet!
<rick_h_> but that involves caring for others...psh who does that any more?
<snap-l> (also, what's your cap on the phone? :) )
<rick_h_> plus, don't you think you're giving the students a lot of credit?
<rick_h_> heh, yea. I don't know I'll do it all the time on my phone
<snap-l> (but it's still cool, nonetheless)
<rick_h_> but I can download as well
<rick_h_> yea, big thing is I can sync stuff I buy on the phone with the laptop/web now
<snap-l> Oh, sort of like U1. ;)
<rick_h_> and don't need to take up SSD space for it
<rick_h_> yea, except it works :P
<rick_h_> and has the music I want
<snap-l> I challenge you
<snap-l> Name me something that you want that isn't in U1
<snap-l> (I know a few of the hairy edges, but I'm curious. :) )
<rick_h_> and has 5gb for free, 20gb free first year, and mobile is free vs $40 mobile package
<rick_h_> some of my soundtrack stuff I like isn't on there, and there was something else, tool or something that was mising
<snap-l> The mobile package for U1 is not cool.
<rick_h_> though that was when it first came out
<rick_h_> I've never opened U1 except for that first album to try it out
<rick_h_> have to say, if this comes in banshee, even less reason to do U1 ootb
<snap-l> Please to be buying Tool via MP3 from the Amazon store. ;)
<rick_h_> wooo! lococast.net feedback spam
<rick_h_> well know we know the email address has gotten out there at least
<snap-l> Heh, one nice thing about U1 / 7Digital is that it's in the UK
<snap-l> so while Amazon doesn't have the new Sylosis album available until 4/19, U1 does. ;)
<snap-l> Bah, pre-order
<snap-l> n/m, it's not available either
<snap-l> but they'll gladly take my money.
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> yea, I don't think their locatin matters, the label deals are for the customer country
<snap-l> Well, it's Nuclear Blast, which is European
<ColonelPanic001> \o/
<ColonelPanic001> Nuclear Blast had In Flames
<ColonelPanic001> \m/
<ColonelPanic001> That's all I had to contribute.
<snap-l> ColonelPanic001: Thank you, citizen
 * ColonelPanic001 salutes, turns 180 degrees, marches off
<snap-l> http://bryanquigley.com/mindshare/gaming
<snap-l> Why do I see this completely backfiring?
<ColonelPanic001> Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory was great, played it a long time, but come on. It's like, 10-15 years old
<ColonelPanic001> it's great, but not an attention-getter
<ColonelPanic001> "Dude, sweet, with Linux, I can play games that are almost as old as I am!"
<snap-l> With the BSD games package, you can play games that are older than you are. ;)
<ColonelPanic001> heh
<jrwren> cyanogen? is that 2.4 or something?
<brousch> jrwren custom ROM
<brousch> the one i saw was android 2.3
<brousch> geez this is easy - installing cyanogen on my droid
<brousch> there's a program right in the app store that downloads the ROM for you
<rick_h_> yea, I'm running the 2.3 beta on my phone now
<rick_h_> yea, rommanager
<brousch> it doesn't even feel like hacking any more
<rick_h_> well, you have to have root first
<rick_h_> or rommmanger can't write the files/etc
<brousch> if it weren't for the rooting thing, my grandmother could do it
<brousch> jrwren: i met another non-part-time .net dev last night
<brousch> that makes 2 of you
<jrwren> 2 of us that you know?
<jrwren> JFYI: I'm often part time. :)
<brousch> hm, the amazon cloud does sound good
<brousch> i think i moved my music to amazon i could go back to dropbox for the rest of my files
<greg-g> people keep their music in Dropbox?
<greg-g> and not just to "loan" an album to a friend via dropbox?
<brousch> i don't right now because it puts me over the limits
<snap-l> My music collection would cost me a fortune to keep in Dropbox
<brousch> but it's nice to set up a nw computer, stick on the gigabit lan, and have everything sync over
<binbrain> keep my music on ubuntu one
<brousch> ut oh, cyanogn keeps popping up its logo and then disappearing
<rick_h_> brousch: that first boot takes forever
<rick_h_> I mean, forever
<brousch> ok, been going for like 5 minutes
<rick_h_> in my case I htink it ran something like 20-30min
<brousch> geez, they should add that to the wiki
<greg-g> good gosh, 20-30 minutes? I don't have the patience for that!
<brousch> you need your phone in 15 minute intervals?
<greg-g> I actually rarely use my cell. Mostly because it is a dumb phone from 2005.
<snap-l> Grrr.... iphone update never fails to get screwed up when I'm on the work VPN
<brousch> suck it up, handjobs
<snap-l> not now, dear, I'm busy.
<wolfger> for a second there, I thought brousch was nixternal
<greg-g> lol
<nixternal> watch it now
<brousch> nixternal is my hero
<nixternal> i feel sorry for you then :p
<brousch> he escaped coloma. he must be awesome
<nixternal> i am kind of scared now. http://www.flourishconf.com/2011/ubuntuglobaljam - i would like to see 100 people, but jeesh, that would be to many at the same time
<nixternal> haha, coloma ftw. actually i escaped watervliet, but it is the same difference :)
<nixternal> born in benton harbor, then lived in hartford, then lived in watervliet, then moved to chicago in 1979 :)
<nixternal> interesting going from a population of a couple of thousand to a few million
<brousch> you must be 50 years old
<nixternal> 37 dick
<nixternal> actually 36, few more months then i will be 37
<snap-l> Feel the love.
<Milyardo> 22 /strut
<brousch> bah, that means you were like 5 years old when you escaped. obviously your parents are awesome
<nixternal> it is weird, since both of my dad's parents have passed on, he don't like going to michigan anymore. before we always figured he would retire back there. he sold the family property and everything on the lake a few years ago
<brousch> nixternal: you have 5 confirmed attendees. that does not seem scary http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/772/detail/
<nixternal> the rest of us here in chicago love going to michigan
<Milyardo> is vim-scripts worth installing? or should I manage scripts myself? I'm mostly just after taglist
<nixternal> brousch: they just announced the stuff on flourish, and people never register, they always just show up
<brousch> you should set out 5 chairs and make the rest of them stand
<nixternal> fuck, rosie o'donnell is moving to harpo studios.
<nixternal> double fuck, goose island sold out to anheuser-busch
<brousch> come back to west MI. we have all the good beers here
<snap-l> nixternal: Rosie O'Donnell still has a show?
<snap-l> Milyardo: Not sure what all is included in vimscripts
<brousch> arcadia, founders, new holland, bells
<snap-l> I'd personally install them all one at a time to make sure there's nothing freaky going on
<Milyardo> Well I'm looking at the file list from here:
<Milyardo> http://packages.ubuntu.com/hardy/all/vim-scripts/filelist
<snap-l> Are you willing to sort through all of that crap?
<snap-l> I swear, Windows has had as many reboots as my iPhone for this upgrade.
<snap-l> as soon as the iPhone disconnects, Windows doesn't see it again, even if I unplug it and re-plug it in again
<snap-l> Either Apple screwed the pooch with the drivers for the iPhone, or Windows is an even bigger pile of shit than I realized.
<jrwren> greg-g: how did the interview go a while back? was with wikipedia IIRC?
<jrwren> brousch: you have teh better MI beers, shorts and arcadia, but I have OG 1 mi from my house :p
<jrwren> snap-l: XP or 7?
<greg-g> jrwren: it went well enough that they invited me to an in-person on April 6th! :)
<jrwren> greg-g: excellent! congrats. where is the in-person?
<jrwren> you can't relocated though, can you? didn't you just buy a house?
<greg-g> SF
<greg-g> and no, didn't end up buying, things weren't aligning correctly to make it make sense
<Milyardo> hrmm installing vim-scripts installed vim-addon-manager as well with all the scripts disabled in vam by defualt
<Milyardo> so I guess its not so bad so far
<snap-l> jrwren: Assume until told otherwise that the world is still on XP. ;)
<snap-l> greg-g: Congratulations on the IP interview!
<jrwren> the world is in 7
<jrwren> the corporate world is on xp
<snap-l> What other world is there that actually uses Windows besides corporate?
<snap-l> And I for one welcome our new Blackberry ascendant. ;)
<greg-g> apparently something like 89% of the computing market, snap-l :)
<snap-l> greg-g: You keep out of this.
<snap-l> With all of your "facts" and "figures"
<snap-l> pshaw.
<brousch> i got to use win7 on our new 3d cad station. it's really hard going back to xp now
<snap-l> They may be using Windows, but they're really thinking of Macintosh
<snap-l> "Oh Aero, you'll never be Aqua"
<snap-l> or cocoa, or one of the hundred other codenames in the Mac stack
<brousch> ug cyanogen is still booting 45mins later
<snap-l> And now we have our answer on why the Java-based OS never took off. ;)
<greg-g> hah
<Blazeix> brousch: ooh, that's scary. Is it still booting?
<brousch> still popping in and out and spinning
<lotia> quite OT anyone know if google groups also treats periods as whitespace e.g. messages sent to my.group are delivered to mygroup?
<brousch> hm, so i pulled the battery and turned it back on, it is right back to spinning cyanogen thing
<greg-g> I would *assume* it is the same behavior as gmail, but I don't know for sure, lotia
<lotia> greg-g: thanks
<greg-g> brousch: eek
<jrwren> cocoa and aqua are two very different things. anyone who knows mac knows that.
 * greg-g doesn't know macs
<jrwren> greg-g: aqua is the UI that OSX introduced, so if it doesn't look like Mac OS 9, then its probably AQUA. Cocoa is an objective C api.
<jrwren> Cocoa is an api, like rails :)
<greg-g> ahhhh
 * greg-g barely knows about rails
<greg-g> other than only hipsters with black rimmed glasses use it
<greg-g> :P
<jrwren> and they use rails on their hipster matching macs.
<jrwren> :)
<Blazeix> cocoa is sort of analogous to gobject, i think.
<greg-g> this sort of crap annoys me: http://blogs.forbes.com/davidewalt/2011/03/14/craig-venters-genetic-typo/
<snap-l> jrwren: I thought they did away with Aqua, since it's been a while since I'd heard anything about it
<snap-l> but you're right, it's still in play
<snap-l> Cocoa has interface elements that are rendered with Aqua themeing
<brousch> ok, going to try a manual reflash. at least it feels like hacking now
<brousch> might as well try CM7 gingerbread while i'm going crazy
<Blazeix> I've been running the CM7 nightlies, they're awesome. Highly recommended
<lotia> greg-g: compared to much of what else is out there. rails is pretty nice.
 * lotia is by no means a hipsted as greg-g can verify.
 * lotia does however use a mac
<rick_h_> rails? crap what did I miss?
<lotia> rick_h_: perhaps my inability to detect humour on IRC
<snap-l> rick_h_: We've all decided to ditch this Python thing and just use Ruby
<snap-l> and with it, Ruby on Rails
<snap-l> Rails just sounds better than Django or Pyramid
<snap-l> or (shudder) Pylons. ;)
<rick_h_> hah!,
 * rick_h_ looks for a new channel
<rick_h_> man, ok jcastro won't troll your twitter post, but :P
<jcastro> rick_h_: how come?
<rick_h_> because it's web streaming, not $40, and must faster since the files are there vs waiting for U1 sync
<jcastro> $40 bucks?
<rick_h_> for the mobile plan?
<rick_h_> that's what the U1 page was saying today
<jcastro> 4 bucks
<rick_h_> per month, or 40 for the year
<rick_h_> amazon == 5gb no cost, or $20 for 20gb
<brousch> ok, that was weird
<jcastro> right but it goes up if you add more music
<jcastro> (ours does too)
<jcastro> but I don't think as much
<rick_h_> it only goes up for storage, $1/gb
<snap-l> jcastro: Yours goes up after 2GB
<brousch> i tried to go back to rooted android 2.2 and it seemed to succeed. then when i rebooted it installed CM7 with no effort on my part. i'm now running CM7
<rick_h_> up to 1tb $1000
<rick_h_> brousch: congrats
<jcastro> but yeah it's cheaper
<jcastro> they can afford to be. :-/
<rick_h_> yea
<snap-l> jcastro: No doubt. I'm sure this is a loss-leader.
<jcastro> oh, other than we let you stream whatever you want
<jcastro> ^^^^
<rick_h_> which is why I'm not commenting
<jcastro> not just what you bought
<snap-l> jcastro: Really?
<rick_h_> jcastro: I've uploaded 5 albums so far
<jcastro> rick_h_: that you didn't buy from amazon?
<rick_h_> oh, you mean pandora style?
<rick_h_> jcastro: yea
<rick_h_> you can upload any files, movies, or even documents
<rick_h_> and play/view files on your mobile app
<snap-l> jcastro: I think canonical needs to make that more clear
<jcastro> I think the whole feature needs more coverage
<jcastro> people think amazon is first, I've been doing it for 6 months!
<rick_h_> right, definitely
<rick_h_> but amazon is doing it cheaper and more visible
<snap-l> Also, I call bullshit on "No cloud storage limit for song purchases"
<snap-l> if you buy more than 2GB of songs, you can't store anything else. :)
<rick_h_> ?
<rick_h_> oh, on u1?
<snap-l> yeah
<jcastro> I think above that purchases don't count against your cap
<snap-l> Well, they still count. :)
<rick_h_> right, but you can't add files since you bought 2gb of stuff
<rick_h_> from your personal space
<jcastro> right
<jcastro> of course
<snap-l> I have 211M of files on U1
<snap-l> I have 2.2G of purchased music
<snap-l> for U1
<rick_h_> big thing with amazon's is that no public access to those files. So I can't share a doc/image with snap-l using it
<jcastro> what do you mean?
<snap-l> jcastro: was hat ? directed at rick_h_ or me?
<jcastro> at rick
<jcastro> public access?
<snap-l> Amazon doesn't do dropbox / u1
<snap-l> so no shared storage
<jcastro> oh right
<jcastro> so it's either one or the other
<jcastro> oddly, amazon doesn't have an iphone app either
<snap-l> right
<jcastro> weird
<jcastro> you'd think that'd be a top priority
<rick_h_> jcastro: I mean if I upload a doc to cloud storage I can't send snap-l a link to it
<snap-l> jcastro: I think Amazon is hedging their bets
<rick_h_> jcastro: heh, I was ecstatic when I saw that
<snap-l> Apple is considered a competitor
<rick_h_> the thing is they can't get it on the platform, if you pay a fee for additional storage it's a "subscription"
<jcastro> right, but you'd think they'd want to snag people to try it at least
<snap-l> and Apple is likely not going to approve a music store like this
<rick_h_> and you can't have alternative music stores on ios
<rick_h_> so really, they don't have a huge part of the revenue generating model for ios users
<jcastro> yeah but surely they can have a player?
<rick_h_> but if you pay $20 a year for 20gb of access
<jcastro> well, I suppose it's like trying to sell common sense to scientologists at that point
<rick_h_> and then have to offer that in your app
<jcastro> let them just go on and be crazy
<rick_h_> and then give 30% to apple?
<brousch> crap, forgot google apps. trying again
<snap-l> Hey, I have to say, I'm now using more of my U1 storage.
<snap-l> since I paid $30 for it
<snap-l> it's pretty nice having that available
<jcastro> I stopped syncing my music
<jcastro> I just set the cache to be huge on the phone
<jcastro> and then use the player
<jcastro> which not surprisingly is better than the stock android player
<snap-l> I don't use the mobile stuff
<snap-l> since I have a Sansa, and rip all of my shit to FLAC
<jcastro> oh man it's like the only reason I use U1, heh
<snap-l> I hear they have this thing called a "store". ;)
<jcastro> yeah I use it
<rick_h_> _stink_: ok, new mission: http://blog.mozilla.com/blog/2011/03/29/mozilla-launches-firefox-4-for-android-allowing-users-to-take-the-power-and-customization-of-firefox-everywhere-2/
<jcastro> I am just saying, without the music and the mobile I wouldn't really need U1
<jcastro> ie. my primary use case is the mobile streaming
<snap-l> jcastro: I use it to store files between machines
<snap-l> but the music store is pretty much my primary use.
<jcastro> I have dropbox for that, and I'm not ready to move too U1 until windows and LAN syncing is done and solid
<jcastro> though, I noticed they finally fixed the speed on U1
<snap-l> jcastro: hear hear
<jcastro> I bought the 2 new rush singles
<jcastro> well, "new"
<jcastro> and I missed the dl entirely
<jcastro> it was just there
<snap-l> new as in later than Caravan / BU2B?
<jcastro> yep
<snap-l> I wish Amazon's store synced with Ubuntu One
 * snap-l looks
<jcastro> it will
<jcastro> I really don't like the 7digital store
<rick_h_> snap-l: why not just drop the files into U1 directory when you download?
<snap-l> jcastro: I think you're mistaken
<jcastro> It's like they didn't bother to make it better
<snap-l> rick_h_: I want them in the "purchased" folder
<jcastro> snap-l: yeah, in banshee
<jcastro> when you buy a song
<rick_h_> ah, ic
<snap-l> so they don't get synced to the Eee
<snap-l> otherwise it'll blow up the little 4GB
<jcastro> oh I see
<jcastro> well, you set your EEe to not sync the purchased folder right?
<snap-l> right
<snap-l> and I think I can just copy things into that folder
<snap-l> trying it with a sample album now
<jcastro> I think it's supposed to put it in the same U1 folder the 7d store puts it in
<snap-l> maybe it will, but currently it just stuffs it into the regular library
<snap-l> and I have a special "purchased" directory that I move it into
<snap-l> which gets backed up
<snap-l> because Amazon's biggest problem is that they won't let you download more than once from your digital locker
<rick_h_> yea, I bet that was part of the deal. You could always only download once frmo their mp3 store
<jcastro> hmmm, do you mean .ubuntu-one/Purchased Music (or whatever it is), or do you seperate them out?
<brousch> oh, i see what i did. i renamed the cyanogenmod file to update.zip instead of renaming the rooted android2. i guess i'm lucky that worked
<snap-l> jcastro: Currently it's separate
<snap-l> http://ubuntuone.com/p/k1I/
<snap-l> (once it finally syncs. ;)
<snap-l> There we go
<snap-l> and this is reason #1 why I'm sticking with Ubuntu One
<snap-l> 5 downloads, so if something screws up, I can get it back.
<snap-l> vs. one download, and if something screws up, tough titties.
<wolfger> *cough* clamz *cough*
<snap-l> wolfger: STFU
<wolfger> Hey, it's not my fault you WANT a bad experience with Amazon
<snap-l> wolfger: That's assuming you keep every .amz file handy.
<snap-l> Please to be telling me where to do to get the .amz file for this album
<snap-l> I'll wait.
<wolfger> well, clamz keeps them handy. That's the point
<snap-l> ah, and when Amazon closes the loophole, then what?
<wolfger> Use clamz for your Amazon downloads, and if something goes wrong you can try again
<wolfger> Not sure how they can close it.
<wolfger> You download the .amz file
<wolfger> when you download it via normal means, it goes into a temp directory and is deleted
<snap-l> wolfger: They put in additional tracking to see if you've already downloaded the file?
<snap-l> since that's the whole damn point of using the stupid downloader?
<wolfger> If they could track whether or not you downloaded it, they could also track whether or not the download was successful :-p
<snap-l> wolfger: My point exactly.
<wolfger> ...and here I just thought you were sticking with Ubuntu One because you didn't like Prince :-)
<snap-l> and if it was successfully downloaded, then you're fucked.
<wolfger> I miss your point
<wolfger> They don't track.
<wolfger> So if you save your amz file (which they do track), you are perfectly safe.
<snap-l> Then try to download one of your albums again, please.
<wolfger> when you use clamz, all your .amz are belong to us
<wolfger> s/belong to us/safe/
<wolfger> Now it is dumb that the standard download client trashes your .amz files...
<snap-l> Right, but say someday Amazon makes clamz impossible to use
<snap-l> then what?
<snap-l> I hate relying on third parties for something that should come standard
<wolfger> Then we switch to a service that doesn't suck
<snap-l> wolfger: one step ahead of you, bro. ;)
<wolfger> what if someday Ubuntu One does the same?
<wolfger> You're playing a senseless "what if" game
<jcastro> snap-l: actually, you get unlimited basically, the DL from the store into your cloud counts as 1 of the 5.
<wolfger> They haven't done it. You're railing against the wind.
<snap-l> we do what we normally do; whine and dogpile on Canonical until they relent.
<jcastro> and after it's in there you're good to go
<snap-l> jcastro: I'm familair with it. :)
<jcastro> ok whew
<jcastro> just making sure you didn't think you only got 5 ever
<jcastro> that would only be 5 computers or 5 reinstalls
<snap-l> and I've used several downloads already for the gigabytes of Baby Einstein shit that I have in there
<snap-l> (because they had the best 100 cheap, and my neice likes one track)
<snap-l> jcastro: It's not even that
<snap-l> it's 5 transfers to cloud storag
<snap-l> once it's on the cloud storage, it's as many computers as you wish
<jcastro> right
<jcastro> hmm
<jcastro> greg-g: how should I approach this: http://askubuntu.com/questions/32555/ubuntu-updated-and-now-the-option-to-boot-into-windows-xp-is-missing
<snap-l> jcastro: "You're welcome"
<jcastro> I'm keen on a) All the content remaining CC so we can remix it, and b) Not turning it into a content farm looking screenshot suckfest
<jcastro> snap-l: SOON. RUSH.
<snap-l> Yessir
<snap-l> jcastro: Oh, you mean the (c) notice?
<snap-l> Man, what a tool
<snap-l> ask them to re-upload the screenshot without the copyright attribution
<snap-l> and if not, then delete the question, since someone isn't playing nice.
<jcastro> why would someone do that in the first place
<jcastro> is taking a screenshot a ton of work or something?
<jcastro> (that's rhetorical)
<rick_h_> this is going to be fun, so my boss wanted me to watch this talk from pycon: http://pycon.tv/#/video/38
<snap-l> I think someone is looking to be combative
<rick_h_> because the guys says "migations @#$%'em"
<Blazeix> interesting, almost all of his previous posts have excessive amounts of screenshots
<rick_h_> so I watch the talk, and the guys goes through feature branches, pair programming, weekly iterations, ticket like it's war, s3 and ec2 to no end"
<snap-l> jcastro: That's the only reason I can come up with for why someone would put (c) notices
<Blazeix> but this is the first one I see with a (c) notice
<jcastro> good screenshots are encouraged
<rick_h_> so he got his shot in and now I get to take my list back lol
<rick_h_> jcastro: what's it hurt? You can reuse it/turn it into a wiki page or something?
<jrwren> are you gonna feather your hair back for the rush show?
<rick_h_> is there a notice on sign up that all your material becomes part of the borg and we own it?
<jcastro> rick_h_: everything is licensed CC-BY-SA
<rick_h_> ah, k
<snap-l> jrwren: You realize Rush is still current
<snap-l> And have consistently kept current
<snap-l> Don't make me come over there and make you watch Beyond the Lighted Stage, ala Clockwork Orange-style.
<snap-l> Because it WILL happen, mofo
<jcastro> I've watched it like 4 times this past week
<jrwren> i realize they continue to put out albums.
<snap-l> tread lightly, friend
<jrwren> i cannot torture me with this.
<jrwren> are you gonna feather your hair back for the rush show?
<snap-l> No, but I know what's going to be playing at the Global Jam.;)
<jrwren> Brittney spears?
<jrwren> my house, my music. ;p
<jrwren> j/k of course.
<jcastro> lhah
<jcastro> jay wren
<jcastro> I miss you sometimes
<snap-l> take better aim. :)
<jrwren> jcastro: are you coming to the jam?
<jcastro> dude I never miss a chance to hang
<jrwren> cool.
<snap-l> You mean there isn't some FOSS Summit that Canonical is sending you to out in the Australian Outback?
<snap-l> jcastro: ^^
<jcastro> no
<jrwren> not that day.
<jcastro> ugh forgot to register, I planned on coming
 * jcastro registers
<jcastro> I <3 hanging at SRT
<jcastro> I can never get enough of openiduser327
<jcastro> he's just crazy funny!
<snap-l> link?
<wolfger> Rush still puts out albums? I thought they were reduced to doing HNIC themes... ;-)
<greg-g> snap-l: on our jam event RSVP page on loco.ubuntu.com
<snap-l> Nice. ;)
<wolfger> furthermore, I never even think of music when I hear the name Rush anymore. I think of MMA and George "Rush" St. Pierre...
<wolfger> I guess they are both from Canada...
<snap-l> wolfger: I consider that your personal flaw
<jcastro> Let's kill wolfger
<wolfger> not my fault Rush doesn't do anything anymore :-)
<wolfger> jcastro: troll season isn't open yet :-p
<wolfger> I wouldn't mind going to the Rush concert. It would be fun.
<wolfger> Is Nickelback opening for them?
<jcastro> oh wow
<jcastro> now you go too far.
<wolfger> LOL
<snap-l> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/843/detail/
<snap-l> Just posted the event for the Natty Release party.
<jcastro> SIGNED UP
<wolfger> jcastro: I just figured, you know, they're both Canadian metal bands....
<wolfger> makes sense for them to tour together
 * wolfger flees for his life
<snap-l> So, is the google calendar for the Ubuntu Loco essentially dead?
<snap-l> I like the meeting notice stuff for the calendar.
<snap-l> That's really slick
<wolfger> snap-l: if it's dead, nobody told me. I still use it
<wolfger> and occasionally add items to it
<snap-l> I'm wondering if we should start using the Ubuntu team calendar on the loco site instead.
<greg-g> wolfger: I still use it, too, is UGJ on it? if not, that's my fault
<greg-g> if there is a better solution, we should do that, as well
<snap-l> It is on there
 * greg-g is open to suggestions
<snap-l> Maybe we could discuss next IRC meeting?
<greg-g> but, right now /me is going to make some tea
<greg-g> :)
<snap-l> Which is on the 3rd. ;)
<wolfger> Google calendar is the superior solution for syncing with Android phones. :-)
<snap-l> That it is. :)
<wolfger> crap, now I have to attend the IRC meeting
<wolfger> whose idea was it to have these monthly meetings, anyway?
<wolfger> oh, wait, i think that was me
<snap-l> I helped. ;)
<snap-l> so if you want to blame someone, feel free to blame me
<wolfger> ok, I blame snap-l
<wolfger> who has become way too good at not letting me bait him on IRC
<wolfger> :-p
<snap-l> practice. ;)
<wolfger> I thought for sure, Rush/Nickelback would've sent you over the edge. Instead now I have to worry about jcastro killing me.
<wolfger> Rush, opening for Nickelback on the No Seatbelt tour....
<snap-l> I look forward to whatever Jorge will do with you. ;)
 * snap-l whistles.
<snap-l> God I hate flash sites.
<snap-l> http://tech.slashdot.org/story/11/03/29/1625225/MySpace-Loses-Ten-Million-Users-In-One-Month <- BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
 * snap-l breathes
<snap-l> BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
<jrwren> LOL @ is nickelback opening for hthem.
<jrwren> wolfger: brilliant!
<brousch> throw in Tool and it would be the worst    concert    ever
<jrwren> snap-l: i hate flash sites so much that i uninstalled flash!
<jrwren> you odn't liketool?
<jrwren> how can you not like tool?
<brousch> all of their music is annoying
<wolfger> how can you not like Nickelback?
<wolfger> Or Rush?
<wolfger> Of the 3, Tool is my least favorite, but I still like them.
<brousch> the truth is i couldn't name a single rush song off the top of my head
<wolfger> Tom Sawyer?!?!!?!!!
<brousch> huck finn?
<wolfger> LOL
<wolfger> brousch is officially a lost cause
<Milyardo> You can't have the worst concert ever without Creed
<wolfger> Creed? Sounds familiar. What have they done?
<wolfger> worst concert ever: Tom Jones and Justin Bieber
<brousch> i like tom jones
<wolfger> you people really have no grasp on what "bad" is
<jrwren> snap-l: ever listen to The Strand ?
<wolfger> I like Tom Jones here and there, but no way would I sit through a concert of him
<jrwren> Tim Jones is fun.
<jrwren> Nickelback is something I owuldn't want to listen to.
<wolfger> Nickelback is awesome, and underappreciated in this channel.
<jrwren> really?
<jrwren> what is good about it?
<wolfger> They stuff that doesn't get played on the radio is better than their top-40 stuff
<wolfger> I just like their sound
<_stink_> man
<wolfger> I listen to their CD's and usually skip the top-40 tracks. Except "Rock Star". That's just awesome
<_stink_> i thought Nickelback was just around to get made fun of
<_stink_> i had no idea
<snap-l> fuckin' hell.
<wolfger> No, I genuinely like them
<snap-l> the .ics files from loco.ubuntu.com aren't time-zone adjusted.
<wolfger> although mainly I just mention them to get a rise out of the haters
<wolfger> .ics?
<Milyardo> iCalendar
<snap-l> internet calendar
<brousch> snap-l: i submitted a bug about that last time we scheduled something
<_stink_> but, then, at one point i thought INXS was just around to get made fun of.  and for some reason, when i hear their radio hits now, i kind of like them.
<snap-l> Well, it's not been fixed.
<wolfger> Don't mess with the INXS
<wolfger> :-p
<wolfger> Conversely, I used to love Duran Duran, but now they're mostly just to make fun of. :-)
<jrwren> yeah, INXS rocks.
<jrwren> wtf, Duran Duran is awesome... just not Rio... please not Rio.
<jrwren> Frankie Goes To Hollywood... more awesome.
<waldo323> gaa now part of rio is in my head
<wolfger> FGTH was *always* just to make fun of
<wolfger> RELAX!
<snap-l> Don't do it
<wolfger> I mean, if you're going to like FGTH, you might as well confess to liking Right Said Fred, too
<snap-l> I'm too sexy for Right Said Fred
<wolfger> but do you spin right round?
<_stink_> this is starting to sound like Laugh In.
<jrwren> FGTH totally different than RSF
<jrwren> spin right round was dead or alive.
<jrwren> Dead or Alive is a group who I've never heard another song.
<jrwren> but at least FGTH had "two tribes" that is still a super fun song.
<wolfger> _stink_: you want a laugh? Try this on for size... http://money.cnn.com/2011/03/29/technology/windows_phone_7_forecast/index.htm?source=cnn_bin&hpt=Sbin
<wolfger> Hmm. I thought Right Round was RSF...
<binbrain> LOL
<binbrain> Android adoption will slow to almost nothing in 4 years to account for the growth in WP7
<wolfger> Android adoption will slow, because everybody will be using it :-p
<jrwren> android adoption will slow because people will realize its shit and go back to iphone.
<binbrain> I still haven't realized my phones shit, I guess I'm behind
<jrwren> you might be right.
<jrwren> my iphone does so many things a droid can't, but the droid users I know don't know that my iphone does those things.
<jrwren> ignorance is bliss.
<binbrain> I haven't seen any droids that can wallet rape you like the iphone can, could change though ;)
<brousch> what does iphone do that android doesn't?
<binbrain> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL7yD-0pqZg
<binbrain> in case anybody hasn't seen this
<jrwren> print, stream from itunes, play to TV with airplay.
<jrwren> droid can't.
<jrwren> lol... i love that video.
<binbrain> its 3G and has the wifi's
<jrwren> it prints money
<jrwren> it grants wishes
<jrwren> LOL, love it.
<brousch> print from android: http://www.pcworld.com/article/217541/google_offers_print_from_android_iphone.html
<jrwren> oh cool!
<brousch> stream from ampache (fuck itunes): http://amdroid.ampache.org/?page_id=2
<jrwren> brousch: UGH... that pcworld site has the shittyiest fonts.
<brousch> i don't know what play to tv is
<Blazeix> I stream from mpd to my droid all the time.
<jrwren> serif in the title but sanserif in the body
<jrwren> zomg MPD!
<Blazeix> *world.com has the crappiest fonts
<jrwren> brousch: you realize that print from android is totally differnt, right?
<wolfger> There are settings on my phone to play to TV, but I haven't touched them. Why would I want to do that?
<jrwren> google cloud print service? wtf?
<jrwren> wolfger: that is what most people say "why would I want to do that?"
<Blazeix> didn't expect to hear "Why would I want to do that" from a linuxy irc channel. It usually goes the other way.
<wolfger> Exactly. Great feature you have there that nobody wants. :-)
<Blazeix> "Sweet, I'm running gentoo on my toaster!"
<wolfger> LOL
<wolfger> Now that I could see wanting to do!
<Blazeix> People want to stuff like that because it's cool. Same with streaming phone->TV
<wolfger> Not same at all
<wolfger> People want to install Gentoo on a dead badger because it's difficult to do. It's an accomplishment.
<wolfger> Is streaming your iPhone to the TV difficult? Do you feel a sense of personal accomplishment?
<wolfger> If yes, it's not a feature.
<wolfger> If no, it's not particularly desirable.
<Blazeix> It opens up more cross-device communication, which is good.
<wolfger> Now if I can *hack* my Android to do that, *that's* an accomplishment, and I would think it was cool.
<wolfger> But
<wolfger> I would never do it outside of showing people that I could.
<Blazeix> I could see a few cases where it could be useful. i've pulled up youtube videos on my phone before to show other people.
<_stink_> angry birds demo
<_stink_> duh
<wolfger> heh
<jrwren> video to TV from phone is nice because i can show my mom or grandma video of hte kiddo on a big screen instead of a tiny phone.
<jrwren> i guess my use case was a little to practical and real world for a linux group.
<rick_h_> binbrain: you use hadoop/etc at all? anyone?
<snap-l> jrwren: You assume Linux users can figure out how to procreate. ;)
<snap-l> "I need to script this so I can replicate it over multiple systems"
<Milyardo> s/mom or grandma video of the kiddo/3D Holographic porn/
<Milyardo> theres your linux user case
<snap-l> "I can't kiss a girl because she might have Mono"
<_stink_> hah
<binbrain> rick_h_:  no, and since Hadoop is written in Java, there is no chance I would ever get a chance to work with it at my current job
<rick_h_> gotcha
<snap-l> binbrain: That's a bit narrow-minded
<snap-l> though I can't argue it too hard
<binbrain> won't disagree with you snap-l
<Milyardo> Anyone have any recommendations for a Java ORM for a simple XMLRPC service I'm about to write
<Milyardo> Hibernate seems like it more than what I'm looking for
<brousch> welcome to java
<Milyardo> same with Eclipse Links, but the eclipse solution has IDE integration which is kinda cool I guess, haven't tried to see how well integrated it is yet
<brousch> where every little thing you want to do has a giant bloated framework that is the "correct" way to do it
<rick_h_>  damn, finally here...must resist urge...http://www.bgr.com/2011/03/29/verizon-announces-samsung-lte-mobile-hotspot-novatel-lte-modem
<brousch> jrwren: you forgot facetime in your list of iphone superiorities
<brousch> and thomas friends apps
<krondor> this could be fun; http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=987740
<Milyardo> Xoombuntu distro in 3...2...1...
<Milyardo> I can already imagine people confusing Xoombuntu with Xubuntu
<snap-l> I confuse Xubuntu with pie
<waldo323> yum?
<jrwren> mmm... pie!
<jrwren> i wish i had more time so I could make pie.
<snap-l> i wish I had more pie so I could pie while I pie
<snap-l> Jesus H Tapdancing Christ, can't anyone leave well enough alone on the Penguicon lists?
<snap-l> The marriage ceremony is over. Nothing is left except the smouldering remains
<snap-l> it has been killed
<snap-l> yet someone still persists on posting about it
 * waldo323 nods  see you at the board meeing snap-l 
 * waldo323 leaving... going to be late :(
<snap-l> Have fun, and see you there
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-03-30
<rick_h_> I HATE MYSQL!
<rick_h_> ugh
<rick_h_> boom, mysql kiss my ass
<jcastro> http://www.androidcentral.com/droid-incredible-reaches-end-life-dinc-2-might-be-just-over-horizon?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+androidcentral+%28Android+Central%29
<jcastro> rick and me hanging out
<jcastro> with our worthless phones
<rick_h_> jcastro: heh yea, fortunately rooting + cyanogen gets me 2.3 so feels a bit newer
<rick_h_> but sad it's only been a year since the thing came out and I feel 2 gen behind
<rick_h_> great texts to get in the morning: " Great the car smells like poop...thank you Michael"
<rick_h_> glad the wife took the boy into day care this morning I guess :)
<rick_h_> so am I allowed to reply lol?
<wolfger> Yes. You're absolutely allowed.
<wolfger> Let us know how that goes. :-)
<_stink_> hah, ours did the same thing
<ColonelPanic001> My cat does that.
 * ColonelPanic001 contributes
<rick_h_> nice, in the car?
<ColonelPanic001> in the cat carrier in the car, yeah
<rick_h_> maybe I should crate the baby
<ColonelPanic001> exactly
<wolfger> ++
<snap-l> Better learn him while they're young
<rick_h_> help, I think I'm about to order another keyboard
<wolfger> I don't think there's any helping that.
<ColonelPanic001> give me some old ones
<rick_h_> hmmm, so "NO STOCK
<rick_h_> ** Pre-Order **
<rick_h_> Ships End of March:
<ColonelPanic001> that will help clear up some space
<rick_h_> heh, I've got a few I could sell off :P
<ColonelPanic001> _stink_: pay the man
<_stink_> hay
<rick_h_> time to find out how great these cherry mx switches are
<rick_h_> vs the model M springs
<rick_h_> wish I could try these topre ones without blowing $300 ugh
<ColonelPanic001> I should bring in my keyboard from home. I type more here, now, anyway
<rick_h_> yea, one nice thing about a lot of nice keyboards is that the work one is a decent clicky model as well
<ColonelPanic001> I just have the default one they supplied. Plain old dell thing
 * rick_h_ shudders
<ColonelPanic001> nothing *wrong* with it, but it's not my MS Natural at home
<rick_h_> I've got 3 naturals, sell you one for $20 :)
<rick_h_> one is a dell branded one with usb ports I think as well
<rick_h_> nope, dell one is at work I think
<ColonelPanic001> tempting
<rick_h_> the ones I have are ps2 though
<ColonelPanic001> the horror
<ColonelPanic001> I don't even know if this desktop has ps2 ports
<rick_h_> well, when you work on a laptop, ps2 is a bit harder to deal with, but they make adapers
<ColonelPanic001> yeah
<rick_h_> well, if looking for a spare let me know. the naturals were my fav for a while until I got into the actual switches
<ColonelPanic001> sure, thanks
<rick_h_> used to have one on laptop, desktop, and work
<rick_h_> reminder time all, CHC tonight, early edition 7pm
<rick_h_> snap-l: Blazeix widox waldo323 _stink_ ^
<snap-l> tx, on my radar
<tjagoda> So
<tjagoda> Just saved $13,896 per year on cell phone costs
<tjagoda> I am the best IT guy evar
<rick_h_> heh
<tjagoda> it gets better
<tjagoda> That's only 2 cell phones
<snap-l> blackberry makes a smart can-string phone?
<tjagoda> shush your trolling
<rick_h_> snap-l: they were going to, but R&D was a bit rich for their blood
<snap-l> rick_h_: totally
<snap-l> tjagoda: Hey, they can have 2 CEOs and 3 COOs, so anything is possible
<rick_h_> ooh, new tagline? "We've got more bosses your you have!"
<rick_h_> Powar!
<tjagoda> http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/089/d/4/thats_Hitlerious_by_Anonymous206324351.jpg
<rick_h_> we thought so :P
<tjagoda> " IDC predicts 2015 will bring: Android 45.4%, WP7 & WinMobile 20.9%, iOS 15.3%, RIM 13.7%, Symbian 0.2%, and 'Others' 4.6%."
<tjagoda> WinMo > iPhone?
<tjagoda> seriously?
<ColonelPanic001> lolz iphone
<tjagoda> And look at RIM
<tjagoda> still holding on by their teeth
<ColonelPanic001> I do know that here at WSU, they're projecting Android hits overtaking iPhone anytime now. Might already have happened, haven't seen/heard stats lately
<tjagoda> CRAZY SAUCE
<tjagoda> WHY WOULD PEOPLE NOT WANT GLOWING FRUIT
<rick_h_> US wide android is #1 in ad and in sales
<ColonelPanic001> so much nicer to work with, too
<rick_h_> because life is good if you have your iBalls connected to your iSack and you stream your iSphincter, 'it just works'
<ColonelPanic001> iphone is a pain in the ass
<ColonelPanic001> comparitively
<tjagoda> RIM makes developers get notarized to prove identity =(
<tjagoda> They're supposedly doing away with that as part of their barrier-reducing program though
<greg-g> rick_h_: wow, were you channeling snap-l there?
<greg-g> tjagoda: are you serious?
<tjagoda> mhm
<tjagoda> 's why AppWorld is so comparatively small
<tjagoda> The profit margins in it are superior to all other mobile markets
<rick_h_> sure, nothijng to do with the awful dev tools :P
<tjagoda> but the barrier to developer entry with all the hoops is huge
<rick_h_> declining user base, oh and that it's big in corporate which is more likely to lock the app purchases than others
<tjagoda> Actually
<tjagoda> when you're done asshatting
<tjagoda> you'll see the numbers give developers great margins in AppWorld
<tjagoda> and that they're by far the most profitable software sales
<tjagoda> </zealotry>
<rick_h_> margins * sales == $$, margins != $$
<rick_h_> so when you want to learn math correctly, we can continue :)
<rick_h_> and dev time == part of costs which also come into play
<ColonelPanic001> I was told there would be no math
<rick_h_> which is why BB is usually the 3rd player for most big apps out there, not first
<tjagoda> I refuse to argue with Android zealots whom openly admit their zealotry! =P
<rick_h_> never said the "A" word in any of this
<snap-l> I think Symbian would get an app sooner than BB
<tjagoda> Woah
<tjagoda> IBM is 100?
<tjagoda> What did they do before computers?
<rick_h_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computing_Tabulating_Recording_Corporation
<snap-l> typewriters, calculators
<tjagoda> +1 for snap-l for answering without making me read wikipedia
<snap-l> tjagoda: You're just cranky that you can't marry your Blackberry at the mass ceremony at Penguicon
<snap-l> Coup Fourre
<tjagoda> Harr harr harr =P
<rick_h_> because they're already married? :P
<wolfger> Wow. I haven't heard "coup fourre" in years, and never outside of a game of Mille Bournes
<snap-l> ;)
<rick_h_> http://blog.nacode.com/2011/03/03/php-built-in-web-server/ missed this
<rick_h_> so now all the poorly written apps won't even be put on real web servers any more
<rick_h_> *sigh*
<rick_h_> love that the wiki is down for maint now as well
<snap-l> Please tell me this web server is written in PHP
<snap-l> that would be so awesome
<rick_h_> based on the linked gist seems to be c: https://gist.github.com/835698
<ColonelPanic001> listening to the lococast about the music store stuff
<rick_h_> heh, that goes on for a few of those
<ColonelPanic001> heh
<ColonelPanic001> snap-l: re: your twitter post - o'reilly sale?
<snap-l> Long story
<ColonelPanic001> heh, k
<snap-l> Made a comment to JoDee about Groupon catering to women who didn't think before they purchased
<snap-l> and got called out on the internet. :)
<snap-l> JoDee is not like that, but still took offense
<snap-l> "They have $40 of Bath and Bodyworks stuff for $10, but I already have enough soaps and such"
<ColonelPanic001> I haven't read anything technical in a long time, need to pick up something from O'reilly or something
<ColonelPanic001> "Beautiful Data" is ~$18 for the ebook, but I'm not quite ready for ebooks yet.
<rick_h_> yea, and that book is only 1/3 good
<ColonelPanic001> ah, you've read it? It sounded interesting, maybe. Worth reading?
<rick_h_> there's a few good chapters, but the rest was meh
<ColonelPanic001> noted. Thanks for mentioning it
<rick_h_> it's in that style of each chapter is a different person/story
<jrwren> anyone know of any program that will weave two log files and order them by date?
<jrwren> e.g. my apahce access log and my python application log so I can see them interleaved by date.
<ColonelPanic001> I think I did that with multiple apache logs before, but it was some perl script I wrote
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea sec, I just was working on that the other day
<rick_h_> it's in the awstats package I think
<brousch> i did something like that with a python script
<rick_h_> logresolvemerge.pl is in the awstats stuff
<rick_h_> jrwren: see: http://wpstorm.net/2011/01/awstats-amazon-s3-cloudfront/
<jrwren> ty
<rick_h_> not finished setting it up yet, but that's where I'm headed
<jrwren> rick_h_: is the man.
<rick_h_> jrwren: what logs are you pulling?
<rick_h_> ah, nvm, I see it, apache and app
<rick_h_> the app log is apache format?
<jrwren> apache combined access and then some pylons output log
<rick_h_> ah, I think that merger will just interleave apache log files together
<jrwren> no, the pylons output is really more like a console log
<rick_h_> so I suck :(
<jrwren> but with interleaved single line web style logs.
<jrwren> so if it supports multiline log messages it should be great.
<jrwren> if not, we will write something.
<jrwren> question about git: can you really not push to a nonbare tree?
<jrwren> with HG/BZR I push to nonbare all the time and all is well.
<rick_h_> hmm, haven't tried, I think you'd have to pull
<jrwren> that is what I experienced.
<jrwren> i'm just very surprised.
<rick_h_> because if there was a conflict you'd push that over to them?
<jrwren> make the non-github workflow kind of shitty. you need a "server" somewhere that is bare.
<rick_h_> or they could be working on it/etc
<rick_h_> yea, we run a gitosis instance for it
<rick_h_> pretty slick
<jrwren> sure, THEN you can get an error and bzr/hg will give you that error, but if it is safe, it should be possible.
<jrwren> but git just fails at this.
<rick_h_> but yea, non-server you'd want the other repo to pull your stuff
<rick_h_> right, but if they're mid-work/etc it seems strange
<jrwren> cool, thanks rick_h_
<ColonelPanic001> I hate when I accidently do ctrl+w + h to try and go to a window on the screen to the left.
<jrwren> so how does heroku actually work then?
<rick_h_> I think it comes down to Hg/bzr doing a diff dir per branch vs the stacked setup in git
<jrwren> I always figured when you push to them you were pushing to the deployed tree.
<jrwren> heroku must have a bare tree and have triggers that pull form that tree when you push to hte bare?
<rick_h_> jrwren: I bet you push to a bare repo and it causes a post-push hook to fire to update the app
<rick_h_> we use that to fire jenkins builds and such from the server
<jrwren> rick_h_: high five!
<snap-l> Just had a little power dip
<snap-l> and thankfully my computer is now on a new UPS battery, so it was able to handle it.
<rick_h_> awesome
<binbrain> http://tinyurl.com/4vytobo interesting part about google culture beginning to discourage open source. why does this always seem to happen. 1) leverage open source 2) get big 3) enterprisy solutions replace open source 4) settle into corporate mediocrity
<rick_h_> it's too much work to do OSS
<jrwren> but in google's case (3) happened inside out instead of outside in.
<brousch> no matter how much you open source the freetards whine its not enough. i assume you evenutally get tired of it
<jrwren> i want to make a living writing software.
<jrwren> its easier to do that by selling it v. supporting it.
<brousch> you can't live on donated beer?
<jrwren> I think part of the problem is the abusers and consumers of open source.
<jrwren> those jerks who want to take stuff don't give back to upstream.
<rick_h_> well, it's always a scale
<jrwren> opensource v. opencore too.
<rick_h_> there's 100x more 'uses' than 'contrib' people
<jrwren> opennms founders have written about it a lot and very good opinions on the matter.
<binbrain> jrwren: I have no problem with "jerks that take stuff and don't give back upstream". The more places the source makes it to the better
<jrwren> why?
<jrwren> why is more places better?
<binbrain> so I realize that sometimes open source doesn't make sense for your business model, but abandoning open source which was a big part of helped make you successful, in favor of "robust" enterprise solutions seems to always be the bad move in my experience
<wolfger> jrwren: what ColonelPanic001 said. :-)
<wolfger> and what brousch said too.
<binbrain> jrwren: why more places, because even if they don't contribute directly, they do indirectly, even if by accident, whether it be the extra mind share familiar with the source that decides to make a contrib 5 years later, or tells someone about this cool project, the more places the better
<jrwren> wolfger: i don't see anything that ColonelPanic001 said in this conversation
<jrwren> binbrain: i guess I just disagree with the more places the better.  e.g. my mom and dad are never going to contribute to chrome or firefox.
<binbrain> huh, my Dad did
<jrwren> amazing.
<rick_h_> wow, boss just had me help get a quad extra large EC2 windows instance app up for something we're running that needs more than 64gb of ram :/
<wolfger> jrwren: [11:08] <ColonelPanic001> I think I did that with multiple apache logs before, but it was some perl script I wrote
<snap-l> I think part of the problem is when you let the MBAs into a company
<snap-l> MBAs don't understand OSS
<rick_h_> 8 core 68gb machine wow
<wolfger> possibly you were completely done with that conversation. I was in scrollback
<jrwren> MBAs don't understand much of anything.
<jrwren> if we are going to generalize :)
<snap-l> jrwren: I'm being charitable here
<snap-l> I don't want an engineer doing my books
<binbrain> jrwren: I don't mean directly obviously, but indirectly, when he calls for support, they tech has to know firefox now, which is more exposure, even if its a small little thing
<snap-l> and I don't want an MBA doing my server room
<jrwren> i don't want a server room, period.
<snap-l> also, I'm reading this "Discourage of OSS" as dogfooding
<binbrain> snap-l: ding ding ding, I blame the MBAs as well
<snap-l> since they are google products, right?
<rick_h_> it's the eternal debate, get devs on a common system to provide consistancy, reuse
<rick_h_> or let people do best tool for the job
<snap-l> jrwren: Everyone wants a server room
<snap-l> they just want someone else to manage it
<snap-l> my dear departed grandma wanted a server room, even though she didn't know anything about computers. :)
<binbrain> anyhow, point not about oss vs proprietary, but about abandoning oss that made you successful in favor of closed enterprisy solutions, and snap-l nailed it, its those damn MBAs
<rick_h_> well, it's not like hadoop was out there pre-google
<rick_h_> I mean, it used google's freaking paper to come into the world
<rick_h_> so it's not 100% fair, and open sourcing stuff you use it complicated and time consuming
<jrwren> snap-l: I DO NOT WANT A SERVER ROOM!  NOR DO I WANT SOMEONE ELSE TO MANAGE IT
<brousch> i agree
<brousch> i want it all in the cloud
<wolfger> ...
<jrwren> so when you say its the MBAs are you really saying its capitalism?  its not a sustainable business model?
<wolfger> and the cloud is not a server room, how?
<jrwren> its not MY server rom.
<jrwren> i want my shit in someone elses server room.
<jrwren> i want it in google, msft, or amazons super efficient server room.
<_stink_> that all caps line from jrwren should be /topiced.
<wolfger> it is a server room. Somebody else manages it. Exactly what snap-l said.
<jrwren> with their centralized AC/DC power conversion and DC servers and fanlesss evaporative cooling that runs at 95% efficiency
<wolfger> You want it and you don't even know it.
<jrwren> i don't want snap-l's weak ass 10% efficient server room.
<wolfger> nobody said you did, that I noticed
<jrwren> wolfger: you have a poor understanding of hte english language.
<jrwren> i do not want it.
<jrwren> i do not want someone else to manage it.
<binbrain> jrwren: holy jump to conclusions mat. what does capitalism have to do with it. I think its as simple as the things they are taught in the MBA program, that complicated process is king for one
<jrwren> i want my shit running somewehre.
<jrwren> binbrain: so you are saying that a business run without MBA trained people but with good business sense would not make the same decisions?
<jrwren> i want my shit running somewehre. I do not want it to be my server room.
<jrwren> if someone wants a server room, they want to posess it.
<jrwren> i don't want to posess a server room whether I manage it or not.  I just want a place to run my shit and hold my shit. and yes, my softwares and data are shitty.
<binbrain> jrwren:  I favor KISS in almost all cases, but would a business run with out MBA come to the same conclusions, maybe, I don't know, I just know that MBAs are often taught complicated processes are NEEDED to make the wheels turn, let's take a look at ITIL for example http://www.service-culture.eu/bilder/chart-itil-v3-v1.9.jpg wtf is that
<jrwren> that is like syaing that "software engineers are the problem because of SDLC or SEMA"
<jrwren> when I was in college I learned dumb ass shitty SDLC stuff and UML bullshit. I'm not stupid and so I don't practice it now. I am sure that are MBAs in the world that are not stupid too.
 * krondor looks at his ITIL certification on the wall and sighs...
<binbrain> ahah, krondor, how did the ITIL stuff go for you?
<krondor> it was boring and the exam was odd due to mostly the UK english they use.  It's like a complicated framework to tell people common sense things like you should have a help desk and the help desk should be customer focused not IT focused... etc..
<binbrain> jrwren: of course there are good MBAs, I think one diff might be that MBAs often get hired specifically to muck with process, where as devs are less likely to
<jrwren> less likely to much with business process or dev process or both?
<binbrain> well, a dev isn't going to muck with business process, a MBA is typically charged to muck with every process
<krondor> without things like ITIL what would the PHBs do if left to their own devices?  At least a framework lets them manage something and let the geeks go to work again.
<jrwren> the more i dwell on it the more i am disgusted by the blame on MBAs when there is no evidence.
<jrwren> poor bastards are just your punching bags.
<binbrain> what would suffice as evidence besides experience and sentiment often shared amongst devs?
<jrwren> evidence.
<jrwren> sentiment is not evidence.
<jrwren> point to a person and say 'this person decided this'
<jrwren> corporations are surprisingly transparent. I'll bet you could find hte person in google who made the decision
<binbrain> I'm sure that could be done in a some cases, and in others not, its not black and white
<jrwren> blaming people without evidence is pretty black and white.
<binbrain> I don't know if I blame the people here, I blamed "MBA" which is a degree had by people
<binbrain> a subtle difference
<jrwren> you blame the existence of a degree program for companies not continuing to embrace open source?
<binbrain> this isn't an open source debate, its about abandoning open source that is apart of what made you successful just because its not enterprisy
<binbrain> "existence" of the program? I don't think I said that either
<binbrain> let's take out "open source'" from the talking point and lets just make it "abandoning what made you successful because it wasn't enterprisy"
<binbrain> I'd say its less about the "existence" of the program, and more about what often seems to be the content of the program, you could certainly argue, and did, that the content of a CS program is mucked up in any cases as well
<binbrain> a/any/many
<jrwren> you've lost me.
<jrwren> :)
<jrwren> anytime you quit doing something that makes you successful its pretty stupid.
 * wolfger leaps in to Godwin the conversation....
<wolfger> Hitler was successful, but he definitely should have changed what he was doing. :-p
<wolfger> but generally speaking, yes.
<jrwren> hitler WAS successful... and then he wasn't, right?
<jrwren> he should have changed what he was doing when he stopped succeeding.
<jrwren> but he didn't, at least not soon enough, and then he killed himself.
<wolfger> No. He should have changed what he was doing before then.
<jrwren> i don't expect sergie and brin to kill themselves.
<jrwren> should he?
<jrwren> he united a fractured germany
<wolfger> Change before you become unsuccessful, to remain successful.
<jrwren> right.
<snap-l> http://decafbad.net/2011/03/30/netflix-studios-and-the-primrose-path-to-apathy/
<snap-l> Um, he blamed the Jews for all of the problems that the Germans had
<wolfger> the point is, the key to continued success is knowing when to change.
<binbrain> when in actuality, he should of blamed the MBAs ;) j/k
<wolfger> binbrain ftw \o/
<jrwren> *sigh* :)
<snap-l> All I have to say is we've hit Hitler twice tday
<snap-l> I think that's an achievement.
<rick_h_> geeze, you guys have been busy
<snap-l> http://skunkiebutt.com/pix/Motivational%20Posters/hitler%20achievement.jpg
<wolfger> snap-l: good post!
<snap-l> wolfger: Thank you. :)
<jrwren> I'm not sure why google is getting grief from this anyway. they have always been a fair weather OSS company. Much of what they do has never been open source.
<rick_h_> jrwren: they win over the free as in beer folks a lot
<rick_h_> plus they do at least try to force some standards/etc
<jrwren> right.
<jrwren> yes, some.
<jrwren> and others they just own :)
<jrwren> but I'm a MSFT friendly person, so I can't knock google for that.
<binbrain> summer of code
<binbrain> etc...
<jrwren> I just think a lot of OSS people have a misperception of google
<rick_h_> yea, they have some wins, but they do more credit than they deserve just on the 'free' part I think
<jrwren> rick_h_: high five!
<jrwren> :)
<rick_h_> and let's face it, of all the companies out there, they've built a rep as the hacker/dev super genius types
<rick_h_> which more of us relate/aspire to
<binbrain> the article I posted the dude was saying that recently open source usage internally was being discouraged just because it was open source
<rick_h_> well, that article read more like "OSS is discouraged because it's not Google-way, Google's approved list of super scalable tools"
<rick_h_> "hadoop, mongo isn't google scale, so don't bother starting there, go read up on bigtable"
<snap-l> rick_h_: That's what I read as well
<snap-l> Not that it was discouraged, just that Google had tools that they deemed superior
<jrwren> which makes sense.
<jrwren> google has huge proprietary infrastructure already built.
<jrwren> why would you build on hadoop or mongo?
<snap-l> Well, I think the poster's problem was that these were summarily discounted, even before they were considered
<rick_h_> because it's a lower barrier to entry, more friendly to quick testing/innovating, and more easily put in the hands of users since anyone can fire up a mongo db with 5 shards on EC2 in minutes vs provisioning google services over the course of days/weeks/justification checks
<snap-l> I could see someone saying that they needed rabbitmq for something, and make a case for it, rather than have someone else say "no rabbitmq, nohow no-way"
<jrwren> google has ALWAYS sucked that way.
<jrwren> if you work at google you can write in ONLY C/C++, Python, Java and javascript.
<rick_h_> right, but the google way is a barrier to entry for new ideas in a fast paced tech circle
<snap-l> It's like places that say "we will not deploy using [language] because someone had a bad experience with it at some point"
<jrwren> want to use LISP or Ruby for something... too bad.
<rick_h_> thus the brain drain to faster moving start ups
<jrwren> have a place couchdb would work... too bad, that lang not allowed.
<snap-l> Though I say that PHP should be actively discouraged. ;)
<snap-l> and Java outright abolished. ;)
<jrwren> google doesn't use PHP, period.
<jrwren> um... java?
<jrwren> google loves java.
<snap-l> jrwren: No, I mean in general
<jrwren> google is the biggest user of java in teh world.
<snap-l> I think Sun might take with that assessment. ;)
<snap-l> or IBM
<jrwren> i don't.
<jrwren> I still don't.
<binbrain> I thought memory was the biggest user
<jrwren> LOL
<binbrain> bah, I'm done, back to work
<snap-l> Oh, right, Sun was the biggest loser of Java, and IBM was the biggest abuser of Java.
<snap-l> my mistake.
<snap-l> carry on.
<wolfger> Today's free song on Amazon MP3 is by Whitesnake.
<wolfger> Are they still around?
<snap-l> Yes, yes they are
<wolfger> Hmph. They must be hanging out with Rush. ;-)
<krondor> so why is everyone freaking out about Amazon Music Sync for Desktop and Android?  Hasn't Ubuntu One Music been doing that already?
<wolfger> krondor: define "everyone"
<krondor> everyone being news sites and record labels.
<wolfger> ah, then the answer is simple
<wolfger> Everyone knows all about Amazon, and nothing at all about Ubuntu One Music
<krondor> I suppose, but even Dropbox has let you do that on Android and Desktop already (though I guess it isn't music specific).  I guess I don't see how it's different then what's already been done.  Maybe it's the free 5 GB and cheap yearly (20 a year for 20 GB?).
<wolfger> I think it's more "iTunes and Google have been trying to reach licensing agreements with the labels, and Amazon said 'we don't need no stinking licenses'"
<rick_h_> price, performance, multi-os (desktop at least), with web, and big name
<wolfger> at least, those are the stories I'm reading today.
<krondor> yeah but how has dropbox asked for licensing agreements?  I guess they're not really advertising; "This storage is for music".  Amazon is cheap though.  There's a promo too for free 20 GB / year with purchase of an album.  There's albums for 5 bucks.
<rick_h_> amazon is letting you hit 'buy' and putting your files right over to your locker, and not counting it against your locker caps
<rick_h_> dropbox isn't selling the music
<krondor> rick_h_:  good point
<rick_h_> and do they have a player, with playlist support, mobile streaming, etc?
<krondor> ubuntu one music yes, dropbox no.
<rick_h_> right, so forget the dropbox comparison then, and we can stick with "U1 has been doing this"
<rick_h_> but only for ubuntu users, using rhythmbox, etc
<krondor> I guess it is all about being known, Ubuntu wasn't known enough to cause the stir?  Or they didn't have a free mobile plan so no hype?  Maybe they dodged a lawsuit best case I suppose...
<rick_h_> and priced a bit more for the mobile aspect/etc
<rick_h_> well, also depends on the deals that 7digital has/etc
<rick_h_> but yea, I think we've all seen the little guys get away with it, until they get too much attentino
<krondor> napster being the best example maybe
<wolfger> U1 Music is Aunt Mildred to Amazon's Paris Hilton
<wolfger> whatever your Aunt Mildred does, it will not make the news, but if Paris Hilton does the same thing: BAM! Instant headline.
<brousch> ubuntu is like 1% of desktop computers, and a fraction of them use U1. amazon is everywhere
<krondor> you don't have to have Ubuntu to use Ubuntu Music of course
<krondor> but still mindshare, pricing, etc.. point to amazon
<snap-l> Honestly, I don't see the big probem
<snap-l> if I upload my mp3 collection onto a website, and use a player that only I have access to, then who is harmed?
<snap-l> Artist? Nope. Label? Nope.
<snap-l> Nobody gets access to the music outside of me
<snap-l> If I made a tape of an album to leave in my car, did the artist lose a sale? Nope.
<krondor> I'm done trying to figure out why the RIAA hates their customers
<snap-l> Just means I don't have to figure out how to get my record player to work in my car.
<snap-l> krondor: Because they're having a shit time of it
<snap-l> Record sales are down
<snap-l> And the biggest reason? Inflation of CD prices
<wolfger> snap-l: Pirate!!!!!
<snap-l> < $10 is impulse buy territory, >$15 is ask the wife for permission
<wolfger> You should buy a tape *and* an album if you want to listen in your car and at home
<wolfger> also, you're dating yourself with the entire concept of taping an album :-p
<snap-l> wolfger: Right, the buggy whip corporations would like a word with you
<snap-l> Also, has anyone wonered why SACD hasn't taken off like gangbusters?
<snap-l> hint: it's not the quality that counts
<wolfger> wtf is SACD?
<snap-l> hint: You can't easily rip a SACD.
<snap-l> wolfger: And you've made my point. ;)
<krondor> portability > fidelity
<snap-l> SACD is 5.1 audio with 96Kbps resolution
<snap-l> 24 bit encoding
<snap-l> It's akin to DVD-Audio, but includes a CD layer for backward compatibility.
<wolfger> ...and the point is?
<snap-l> problem is the SACD layer is unreadable with current computer tech
<snap-l> at least unreadable without some major hacking
<wolfger> triple that question, in that case
<krondor> snap-l:  also probably hasn't caught on because Sony was involved in the format :P
<wolfger> ha!
<snap-l> krondor: Sony was involved witht eh original CD
<snap-l> so I don't buy that argument much
<wolfger> That's unfair, Krondor
<wolfger> Blu-Ray won, after all
<snap-l> In my perfect world, they'd just give you a disc with FLAC files on it
<snap-l> wolfger: And we see how bluray is just leaping off of the shelves
<wolfger> snap-l: but it beat HD-DVD out of the marketplace
<snap-l> but the other point I have is that it's cheaper to buy the DVD of a concert than it is to buy the CD of the concert
<krondor> snap-l:  but how many recording studios are even recording in good 24 bit and not just 16 bit even (I have no clue maybe they are, honest question)
<snap-l> wolfger: That wasn't too harrd.
<wolfger> it will catch on, eventually
<snap-l> krondor: It's more prevalent than you might think
<snap-l> all studios are using 48KHz, 96Kbps, 24 bit recordings
<snap-l> they have to mix down to CD format
<jrwren> because amazon is far more big than ubuntu.
<wolfger> <insert snarky comment about jrwren's coming to he conversation late here>
<snap-l> Lets just say that this is a fight that I'm confident Amazon will win
<jrwren> wolfger: you didn't hear about my Aunt Mildred's sex tape?
<snap-l> and if they don't, the RIAA can chew a bucket of cocks
<snap-l> jrwren actually reads backlog.
<snap-l> I'm impressed
<snap-l> which means that in 10 minutes, he'll make a snarky comment to me. ;)
<wolfger> Woooo. I just "qualified" for a free subscription to eWeek magazine. <mark-as-spam>
<snap-l> Information Week here
<snap-l> I swear, they could just chain together the blatherings of babies, and still call it eWeek
<wolfger> they don't?
<snap-l> I think they still have freelancers
<snap-l> but I think the freelancers employ their kids to bang on the keyboard.
<krondor> parody site idea; eWeak.com  One domain camper away from reality.
<wolfger> LOL
<wolfger> check it. It might already exist.
<snap-l> "something something cloud something google something"
<krondor> it does w/ a domain camper, expire dec 27. 2011
<greg-g> man, chatty cathys today
<jrwren> the problem with being an addict is that i can't tell if hte headache is from overdosing or withdrawl
<greg-g> jrwren++ I hate that uncertainty!
<wolfger> jrwren: You need tiger blood.
<wolfger> Wow. That killed the conversation.
<snap-l> heh
<wolfger> Is Charlie Sheen the new Hitler? We've discussed Hitler multiple times today without killing the convo.
<wolfger> Quick! Amend Godwin's law.
<snap-l> http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Virtualization/Virtual-Desktop-Infrastructure-Takes-Off-10-of-the-Hottest-Players-772016/?kc=EWKMRS03282011CA
<snap-l> Seriously, just put a bullet in eWeek
<rick_h_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAyUNI3_V2c
<rick_h_> google at it again
<snap-l> fuckin' hell
<rick_h_> no, dare you to block google at the firewall like facebook :P
<snap-l> I can see this getting totally abused
<snap-l> *sigh*
<snap-l> https://identi.ca/notice/68632077
 * krondor Krondor +1'd This!
<greg-g> wow, +1
<greg-g> (that was meant to be in reference to +1, not actually a +1 of +1, heh)
<greg-g> I sure effing hope that was their test object to +1, the +1
<greg-g> I mean, if I were on the team, that'd be my only requirement
<brousch> greg-g: how's the rsvps for global jam looking? i have me and one other so far
<greg-g> brousch: in your car? cool!
<greg-g> looks like 11 confirmed with 8 maybes, awesome
<greg-g> there will be extras i'm sure, so that's a good turn out!
 * greg-g is excited!
<brousch> ok, i'm going to pick up a few good beers tonight
<greg-g> yay, good beer!
* greg-g changed the topic of #ubuntu-us-mi to: Michigan LoCo | GLOBAL JAM! RSVP! http://ur1.ca/3pkfp | Wiki: http://ur1.ca/33fhq | LP: http://ur1.ca/33fhw | MailingList: http://ur1.ca/33fhy | Check out MUG: http://www.mug.org and CHC: http://ur1.ca/33fin | Michigan Repository Mirror at OU: http://ubuntu.secs.oakland.edu/ | This channel is now logged at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/
<greg-g> whoa, alienseer was here?
<greg-g> never seen him here anymore
<n0p> never see me anymore either, phew
<greg-g> n0p: there you are!
<greg-g> come to the UGJ at SRT on Sunday!
<n0p> hmm, will be downtown with the kids for festivfools
<n0p> what time is the UGJ
<greg-g> 3pm-??
<greg-g> erm, I'm sorry, 12pm - ???
<greg-g> and at the ??? time we'll be going out for drinks, most likely
<n0p> cool, well, as mentioned, family time, but perhaps i can at least come by and say hey
<greg-g> yeah, definitely. Enjoy festifools craziness.
<n0p> oh, and ice skating at yost from noon-2 with kids, sheesh, busy schedule
<snap-l> hey n0p, long time no see
<n0p> yeah, i gotta make a CHC someday again
<n0p> been pretty busy still, but feels like i'm getting on track
<n0p> snap-l: are you BronxZoosCobra ;-)
<snap-l> ?
<n0p> oh, you havent heard the snake story?
<n0p> some cobra is missing from the Bronx zoo
<n0p> someone created a twitter account and has been tweeting, it's pretty funny
<snap-l> heh
<n0p> made me think of you actually
<n0p> http://twitter.com/BronxZoosCobra
<snap-l> Not sure whether to be flattered or what. ;)
<n0p> well, not the snake aspect, just the wit ;-)
<greg-g> wait! Is that why White Snake was the free Amazon mp3 for today?
<n0p> haha, perhaps
 * greg-g puts various parts of IRC log in his head and creates connections where there shouldn't be
<snap-l> brb, power out
<snap-l> back
<snap-l> Hopefully this will take care of the power outages overnight
<snap-l> If not, out come the big guns. :)
<binbrain> http://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:NoJavaScript
<binbrain> lol
<binbrain> I'm not a fan of js, but these guys are nuts
<Blazeix> hm, that @source isn't a bad idea though
<binbrain> opps, need to update a small innocent looking latex package, 1G and 125 new deps later...
<_stink_> hah
<_stink_> latex is great for that.
<greg-g> binbrain: well, its mattl, who is a tad crazy
<greg-g> re: NoJavaScript
<wolfger> Yo, snap-l. Awesome instrumentalcast. Finally getting around to listening to it.
<snap-l> Thank you. :)
<snap-l> I'm uploading another episode, an industrial episode.
<snap-l> Should be out Friday.
<rick_h_> binbrain: heh, oh well, don't like my app don't use it
<binbrain> greg-g: what's a tad crazy exactly :) it's not horrible to hope js DIAF, but the effort to eradicate it 1 js disable at a time, hmmm
<binbrain> rick_h_: huh, what's your app?
<rick_h_> binbrain: sorry, any of my apps
<rick_h_> though my app will be bookie
<rick_h_> http://bmark.us
<rick_h_> no real js yet though
<binbrain> better hope your apps don't end up as the next target for libreplanet rick_h_
<wolfger> ok, wtf is this track? Sound more like Gary Wright than metal
<rick_h_> ok CHC people get here to help hold space pls
<rick_h_> getting busy here tonight all of a sudden, ugh
<snap-l> I'm on my way.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-03-31
<snap-l> waldo323: You are in on irc
<snap-l> waldo323: You are in on irc
<waldo323_> yay
<jjesse> evening
<_stink_> yo
<jjesse> on web chat
<jjesse> there needs to be some standard on what "high speed" internet means
<_stink_> hah
<jjesse> QoS per quest
<jjesse> Quality of SErvice per quest
<jjesse> dang it
<jjesse> guest
<jjesse> been this quiet all week?
<greg-g> pretty talkative during the day today, not sure about what though :)
<jjesse> hahaha
<jjesse> i'm sure it was fascinating
<greg-g> oh of course
<snap-l> Evening
<rick_h_> ok, keyboard seems cleaned ok
<Blazeix> awesome! was it hard to get the keys off/on?
<rick_h_> well, the big keys have a metal bar holding them in
<rick_h_> so you have to pop them loose, without pulling them off the bar
<rick_h_> so those were tricky, the main keys just pop off, it's a bit scary though
<widox> rick_h_: did you spill coffee on your keyboard?
<rick_h_> earl grey with honey in it :/
<rick_h_> not a ton though, so not a full bath
<widox> whoops
<widox> how was CHC?
<widox> wasn't able to make it out :-/
<rick_h_> was ok, got started on pgsql fulltext support for bookie, Blazeix did some updates to the badge/chrome extension stuff
<rick_h_> and the other matt is having a kid in Oct
<rick_h_> crazy
<widox> whoa
<widox> good stuff then
<rick_h_> yea, good stuff
<snap-l> rick_h_: so is it unstuck, then?
<rick_h_> yea, shift key seems unstuck
<snap-l> I just found out something cool about the Squeezebox
<snap-l> I can stream to any mp3-streamable device with it
<snap-l> just point them to http://lister:9000/stream.mp3, and it'll see it as another device
<snap-l> so I have a device called "Mozilla from 192.168.1.109" along with "Happy Radio"
<snap-l> only problem is it takes about 30 seconds for it to buffer
<rick_h_> ah, sucky
<snap-l> but I can have N number of devices streaming
<snap-l> Though not all playing the same stream. They're all independent
<snap-l> oh, wait, they can be synchronized
<snap-l> The syncing is a bit off, though
<snap-l> depends on the buffering
<wolfger> morning
<rick_h_> party
<wolfger> is it Friday already?
<rick_h_> not yet :(
<wolfger> then I'm confused as to why we're partying
<brousch> because COFFEE
<tjagoda> COFFEEEEEE
<tjagoda> EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
<tjagoda> EEEE
<tjagoda> E.
<wolfger> Coffee Part > Tea Party
<tjagoda> Truth
<wolfger> Man, I've been having a lot more problems with typos lately
 * wolfger wonders if mental degradation is beginning already
<snap-l> u rgubj ura oiaauvkw
<wolfger> Stop exercising my brain!
<wolfger> :-p
<wolfger> or should I say, "dyp[ rcrtvodomh ,u ntsom@
<tjagoda> Anybody in here ever worked with Adtran hardware?
<brousch> why does that sound familiar?
<tjagoda> Its integrated communications hardware
<tjagoda> 3 T1's come in to it, one PRI interface is split out of it and the rest is data stream
<tjagoda> There is a local telco vendor which uses Adtran instead of Cisco
<tjagoda> I do not know if I am comfortable hopping off the Cisco name
<brousch> no one ever got fired for buying cisco
<tjagoda> http://community.spiceworks.com/topic/108908
<wolfger> brousch: that just makes me want to form a company and then fire somebody for buying Cisco. :-p
 * wolfger is contrarian
<snap-l> I think there's a cream for that
 * ColonelPanic001 offers some cream
<brousch> did someone ask for cream? http://xkcd.com/
<ColonelPanic001> nicely done
<rick_h_> gah, more sticky keys today. I'm going to have to take a picture, pull all the keys, and give this thing an alcohol bath
<brousch> rick_h_: we're talking about cream and comics with goo, and you start complaining about sticky keys?
<wolfger> I will not ask rick_h_ why his keys are sticky. I will not ask rick_h_ why his keys are sticky. I will not ask rick_h_ why his keys are sticky.
<brousch> not good. not good at all.
<rick_h_> brousch: hah, guess I should start paying attention to you guys :P
<Milyardo> rick_h_: I have a problem more with hairy keys than sticky
<_stink_> ..
<brousch> that is not less disgusting
<Milyardo> :(
<_stink_> well done everybody!
<wolfger> yes it is, actually
<wolfger> unless the hairs are *stuck* to the keys
<wolfger> but that's an "and", not an "or"
<wolfger> _stink_: what did we do well?
<rick_h_> waldo323: http://linuxmafia.com/~garrett/jordan/drinking-game.txt
<_stink_> wolfger: this conversation
<wolfger> rick_h_: what is that?
<rick_h_> wolfger: a drinking game built around a series of books waldo323 and I read
<wolfger> RJ? WoT? DFS?
<rick_h_> RJ == Robert Jordan, WoT == Wheel of Time
<wolfger> ah, ok
<brousch> ug, i think my step dad read those
<wolfger> I got, I think, halfway through either the second or third book before I quit
<brousch> way too many plot threads and characters
<wolfger> They were good and yet also not good at the same time
<rick_h_> at the 3rd? That was one of the best in the series
<rick_h_> and it was only 1/3 as large by book 3...maybe even 1/4
<brousch> gotta love it. we have a quarterly report that's been run the same way since ~1995. now they say it is wrong and meaningless. way to be on top of it!
<wolfger> as I recall, I was really frustrated by the main character never actually doing much of anything other than by luck.
<wolfger> I dunno. It's been years.
<rick_h_> heh
<wolfger> I've also got a stack of books that I haven't even begun reading.
<wolfger> The existence of the internet has really doomed my book reading efforts
<brousch> i have a physical stack and an ebook stack
<Milyardo> The last Arc tech article on Honycomb is pretty disappointing. Why does a Tablet need to have applications rewritten for it just because it has a different screen resolution?
<brousch> android apps have defined resolutions
<brousch> http://developer.android.com/guide/practices/screens_support.html
<Milyardo> This states that layouts by default of screen resolution independent, though the expected screen resolutions aren't completely arbitary
<Milyardo> *by defualt are
<snap-l> I have a lot of books, both physical and virtual that need reading
<wolfger> Yeah, I know.
<wolfger> I'm still waiting for a book review per week from you, mister.
<jrwren> snap-l: do you know Regenerator?  I just listented to what I think is the original of everyone folow, but I'm more familiar with a remix, only i don't know from where is the remix.
<snap-l> Not placing it at the moment
<snap-l> I <3 conference calls
<greg-g> nap time?
<snap-l> Hasn't started yet.
<wolfger> Gah!!!! Hate CNN. Stabbity stab stab.
<wolfger> Not sure why I keep going there for my news. Nothing better, I guess.
<wolfger> Which is a shudder-worthy thought.
<jrwren> wolfger: fox news.
<wolfger> thou shalt not utter the name of such tripe
<jrwren> I want to watch fox news so that when I watch Onion News Network it is funnier.
<jrwren> wolfger: the political blog upsetting you?
<rick_h_> heh, fox news, or fox opinion? need to schedule correctly
<jcastro> rick_h_: is dbo's interview out yet?
<snap-l> was released yesterday
<jrwren> wolfger: why you complain about CNN?
<snap-l> jcastro: http://lococast.net/archives/464
<rick_h_> jcastro: yea, last night
<wolfger> jrwren: I avoid reading the political blog. Upset about yet-another-radiation-scare-that's-really-not-anything-to-see-here-please-move-along
<wolfger> jrwren: Also a piece about "the female Indiana Jones", who is not an archaeologist, nor does she carry a bullwhip or even wear a fedora.
<wolfger> she's not even a professor in her non-adventuring hours
<wolfger> in fact, the only facet in which she is similar to Indy is that she travels to exotic countries.
<wolfger> <stab>
<wolfger> I know... a horribly geeky thing to get miffed over.
<jrwren> its importatn!
<rick_h_> man, sometimes it's so hard not to troll my co-worker
<jcastro> rick_h_: listening now
<rick_h_> jcastro: heh cool, I've not had a chance yet so hope it comes out ok
<wolfger> rick_h_: why avoid the temptation? ;-)
<rick_h_> " (btw: I know I can highlight a range in VIM and do replaces in there.. but that's not exactly convenient)"
<rick_h_> wtf, how is that not convienent?
<snap-l> rick_h_: It requires multiple keystrokes. ;)
<rick_h_> this is where the trolling comes in, I know the answer
<rick_h_> "because my function is 400 lines long and involved 50 lines of a docblock comment at the start
<rick_h_> and 400 is a good one
<rick_h_> DBO: ping, you see the interview came out?
<rick_h_> sorry for the delay, got it out later last night
<DBO> rick_h_, yeah I saw :)
<rick_h_> k, awesome
<brousch> rick_h_: i listened to the mark ramm interview. very good
<rick_h_> brousch: cool, glad you liked it. Thought that one went pretty well
<brousch> i can scrape a bunch of questions out of it to ask dave brondsema on monday when he gives an allura presentation to grpug
<snap-l> There you go. :)
<jrwren> allura?
<jrwren> sounds like a drug.
<rick_h_> heh, allura == new SF site
<rick_h_> http://sourceforge.net/p/allura/home/
<jrwren> side effects include erectile disfunction, sweaty palms, coughing, uncontrollable bowls and death.
<jrwren> does that include git/hg web ui browsing?
<rick_h_> think so
<jrwren> hawt.
<rick_h_> listen to the interview :P
<jrwren> k
<rick_h_> http://lococast.net/archives/436
<rick_h_> and of course, listen to the rest while you're there: http://lococast.net/tag/interview-2
<rick_h_> crap, missing tags
<rick_h_> http://lococast.net/category/interview is better
<snap-l> Have to say, rick_h_ is rocking these interviews.
<snap-l> http://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/gfmqc/lococastnet_interview_with_jason_smith_from/
<jcastro> haha man, great interview guys
<jcastro> hilarious
 * jcastro just finished it
<snap-l> jcastro: awesome. Glad you liked it!
<jcastro> I tweeted
<jcastro> <3 the music too
<jcastro> that must be craig
<snap-l> :)
<greg-g> hey, thanks for mentioning the UGJ on the lococast, guys!
<greg-g> hahah, and I love the special appearance of mrs rick :)
<snap-l> heh. ;)
<snap-l> Yeah, that was too precious to cut out.
<snap-l> jcastro: You need to check out Sekshun 8, Revenge, and Wendigo. They're my go-to balls-n-chunk CC bands.
<snap-l> And Sequence the Silence is definitely running up into 4th place.
<jrwren> work sucks, at least there is good coffee and good tea.
<brousch> jrwren: don't quite before sunday
<brousch> or quit either
<jrwren> oh no.
<jrwren> SRT is awesome. the best even.
<jrwren> its just my comptuer being stuoid.
<jrwren> driving me insane.
<jrwren> I'd make comments about windows7 but I've had crazyness in linux too ;)
<jrwren> imagine trying to recompile your code while apt-get upgrading your gcc ;0
<snap-l> jrwren: Is this something that happens often? :)
<brousch> you compile your code?
<brousch> barbaric
<binbrain> rick_h_: see your using sphinx for your bookie app, have you tried to tie your rst files into source code yet?
<jrwren> snap-l: almost never :)
<jrwren> rofl @ uncompiled code.
<jrwren> rofl at top comment http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mk3qkQROb_k&NR=1
<greg-g> wow, I can't believe I just watched that
<binbrain> jrwren: OMG, what is that
<binbrain> wonder if that's Oracle's attempt at making Java hip
<brousch> it cannot be from oracle. it mentions jerking off
 * greg-g nods
<brousch> please help me. i can't stop watching this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zn7-fVtT16k
<rick_h_> binbrain: yea, I do that on a few projects using autodoc
<binbrain> brousch: that's awesome
<binbrain> rick_h_: so I'm missing something, what do you use to embed source code from py files in your docs? viewcode?
<rick_h_> no, so sphinx has an autodoc thing where you tell it hte module name it and goes through the module and grabs the docstrings out
<rick_h_> when you setup a new sphinx project it's got a config flag it asks you "do you want to use autodoc..."
<rick_h_> and then if those docstrings have doctests you can enable that as well, where it runs tests I guess on building the docs
<rick_h_> I don't do much doctest stuff
<rick_h_> but did use it once to try it out
<binbrain> the docstr part I see covered, but what about just the source
<rick_h_> oh, actually view the source code in the docs?
<binbrain> do you have to put the source right in your rst file?
<binbrain> yup
<rick_h_> oh no, I mean I've done that in some docstrings
<rick_h_> Usage :: (block of code here)
<binbrain> right
<rick_h_> but no, if you want to see source, go to the source browser
<rick_h_> gitweb at work, github on bookie
<binbrain> I want Usage :: <link to highlighted example.py>
<rick_h_> hmmm, I guess I'd put those files under static, the example
<rick_h_> but meh, going to suck since you want highlight, etc
<binbrain> well, if a pdf is generated and printed, a source browser of the files doesn't help much
<rick_h_> you'll need something else for that I think
<rick_h_> yea, you want to have a dir of code, with tests that validate they work
<rick_h_> and then you want to run through through the highlight lib, and output .html files of them
<binbrain> the tests that validate that code can be totally separated out
<rick_h_> then you can link to them under static dir
<binbrain> man, ok
<binbrain> that seems like work
<rick_h_> yea, sphinx doesn't do that
<binbrain> have you used viewcode
<rick_h_> http://code.google.com/p/gwtwiki/wiki/SourceCode2HTML
<binbrain> I think it sounds sorda like it, but I'm not sure, I guess I could just try it :)
<rick_h_> no, ah, a plugin
<rick_h_> yea, not used that extension
<snap-l> That Lady Java video is awful
<binbrain> I mean, I could probably use pygments for that
<rick_h_> right, but that's all viewcode is doing
<rick_h_> looking for the code for the extension
<rick_h_> https://bitbucket.org/birkenfeld/sphinx/src/69acc55585e9/sphinx/ext/viewcode.py
<rick_h_> ok, I lie
<rick_h_> no pygments there
<Blazeix> vim can convert source code to html
<Blazeix> :TOhtml
<binbrain> Blazeix, um, that's awesome
<rick_h_> yea but seems like something that'd you just have some service with a link to a file
<rick_h_> and it'd open it, run it through pygments, and show it to you
<rick_h_> one file, with a directory to search in or something
<Blazeix> yeah, you could do something like "vim test.py -c TOhtml -c wq -c q"
<rick_h_> or since sphinx has a build step, you'd just make your script to dump a dir of code to html in to the sphinx static directory
<Blazeix> but it's just a neat hack, you might not want to tie infrastructure to vim
<rick_h_> for file in $dir of code
<binbrain> Blazeix, your my hero
<binbrain> didn't know that
<rick_h_> lol
<Blazeix> related: http://vpaste.net/
<Blazeix> vim-powered pastebin
<Blazeix> I'd like to point out that rick_h_'s route is the "correct" way. My route is the "huh, that's unique" way...
<rick_h_> hey, that's an awesome "oh shit, I need this in color to put up"
<rick_h_> used that myself to open in a browser link
<binbrain> rick_h_: you have a way to link to the .html docs that works for latexpdf output? it works for include raw works for html as output, but not latexpdf... hmmm
<Blazeix> pygments has a latex output mode, i believe
<rick_h_> no, haven't done any latex output
<rick_h_> only done one page rst2pdf stuff
<binbrain> repoze.bfg docs do what I want, way easier then I thought :)
<binbrain> as always
<brousch> snap-l: the OMC logo finally popped up in my itunes
<snap-l> :)
<snap-l> You're welcome. :)
<snap-l> I finally figured out how to add it
<brousch> lococast is still blank logo
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, if you know how to fix it I'd love to know
<rick_h_> tried posting to twitter "hey, someone tell me what's long"
<rick_h_> the iTunes works, but not in android/etc :(
<brousch> rick_h_: i have no clue, but apparently snap-l does
<brousch> and i'll tell you what's long ...
<snap-l> It has to be embedded into the mp3 file
<snap-l> I think that's where it gets the logo from
<snap-l> so I need to embed the logo into the next few episodes
<rick_h_> oh, well that would explain it then
<rick_h_> Man, I spent hours going through the feed xml and such and never could get it to work
<snap-l> Yeah, I think that's the reason
<snap-l> because I started putting in the OMC logo into the mp3 (and ogg) files
<snap-l> around when the Enslaved to Machines interview dropped
<snap-l> which was at the beginning of March
<snap-l> (damn, time flies when you're having fun)
<brousch> yeah, i rarely look at it in itunes so it could have happened a while ago
<rick_h_> ok, feel better then. I thought I must be a moron and everyone else had it all figured out
<snap-l> rick_h_: You should know by now that you're not a moron. ;)
<brousch> none of the other podcasts in my itunes have a logo. omc is the only one right now
<brousch> so it's not thet rick_h_ is a moron, it's that snap-l is a genius
<snap-l> brousch: You're lucky I'm not drinking anything, or you would have owed me a keyboard
<rick_h_> hah!
<rick_h_> that's why I let him edit
<brousch> or maybe he just intimately understands the way apple works â¦
<rick_h_> now I find out he's been sandbagging on lococast :P
<krondor> jcastro:  seen the neon skin since the 10.1 xbmc update?
<jcastro> no, should I?
<jcastro> is it awesome?
<krondor> check it out, looks interesting to me.  http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?t=97792
<krondor> just got added to the official skin list, I think there was a beta of it in github for a bit
<jcastro> oh I think I did try this
<jcastro> that tv grid looks awesome
<krondor> yeah, I was going to try messing with it and Cinema plugin.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-04-01
<snap-l> http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/04/01/i-am-jef-spaleta/
<snap-l> I really am not looking forward to tomorrow
<_stink_> oh god.  me neither.
<rick_h_> crap, I read that at first and wondered wtf, didn't realize tomorrow is april tools day :/
<rick_h_> ok, so if you can't copy and paste code from a pastebin to your project does that mean I get to revoke your dev card?
<brousch> damnit. i hate april fools. i never know if something is real
<brousch> yes, revoke away
<rick_h_> heh, make sure you hit up xkcd, but not via rss
<brousch> go to a web page? barbaric
<rick_h_> yea, I know, some of this stuff is borderline...so not funny that it's almost believable so you have to go "could they really be that stupid?"
<brousch> not even stupid, just unsure if its real
<brousch> http://massive.immersedcode.org/2011/staging/projects/default/python/flask-enterprise/
<rick_h_>  phew, so march is done, 44.613 GB of podcast downloads
<rick_h_> heh, well flask was an april fools joke to start with
<brousch> i know
<brousch> so is this weirdly-licensed thing with no access to source code real?
<rick_h_> only if it's downloaded some 15k times
<brousch> i think it must be fake. the license and no ability to contribute patches gives it away
<brousch> whoa, freaky xkcd
<rick_h_> yea
<brousch> sigh http://garbaginator.cartwheelweb.com/
<rick_h_> yea, saw that one
<rick_h_> no offense, but no need to dupe the horrible april fools stuff, get enough of it already :)
<brousch> right
<jrwren> i like the readme.rst on garbaginator github
<jrwren> hahaha, and hte LICENSE.xt
<brousch> hah, i didn't go into the actual code
<brousch> actual repo i should say
<wolfger> <_<
<wolfger> >_>
<wolfger> Good morning.
<brousch> oooh, viewsonic gtab for $299, no joke http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=7212231
<brousch> 10.1" android tablet
<wolfger> thinkgeek always is full of win on April 1st
<wolfger> to make up for the rest of the internet sucking
<snap-l> Yeah, they're getting slashdotted.
<wolfger> and, as usual, they have some gag products people would actually buy
<brousch> i want those pork rinds
<wolfger> I mean, I would love to see the No-3D glasses available, so that people will quit bitching about 3D movies. :-)
<brousch> thinkgeek is in ann arbor. do they have a storefront there?
<snap-l> Um, TG is in VA
<brousch> it is?
<brousch> darnit
<snap-l> and has a warehouse in Ohio
<tjagoda> There is no storefront
<snap-l> brousch: And the Dexter office is in... wait for it... Dexter Michigan
<wolfger> brousch: snap-l is April foolin' you
<brousch> fine, put the store in dexter
<snap-l> not to be confused with Dexter's Lab or Dexter
<wolfger> They are in AA. I'll take you there sometime
<wolfger> It's very cool place.
<wolfger> :-)
<snap-l> brousch: I'll be happy to sell you things in Ann Arbor
<snap-l> and we ca call it Thinkgeek if you want
<brousch> bring some of those pork rinds sunday
<snap-l> since it'll be a satellite store, it won't have the full selection
<brousch> weak
<snap-l> in fact, it'll just be me taking your money
<tjagoda> http://www.thinkgeek.com/interests/looflirpa/e8bb/?pfm=AprilFools_homepage_Featured_9
<tjagoda> ahhh thinkgeek
<tjagoda> <3
<snap-l> !openmetalcast goes clubbing, with the very first Club Metal episode: http://ur1.ca/3q39o (no fooling). Implant it in your biochip now!
 * wolfger is dubious... Club Metal?
<snap-l> It's an industrial show
<wolfger> So far, I <3 <3 <3 the instrumentalcasts and :( :( :( anything else.
<snap-l> wolfger: You should try this
<snap-l> I think you might like it
<wolfger> OK, I will try it.
<tjagoda> http://www.r2d2central.com/story/front/New_Full_Size_R2D2_Vacuum_137420.asp
<snap-l> I'm not clicking on any links today. ;)
<tjagoda> Weak.
<snap-l> http://freelish.us/
<snap-l> rick_h_: ^^
<wolfger> Nice double-standard there
<greg-g> ?
<wolfger> "I'm not clicking any links today. Oh, btw, here's a link..."
<greg-g> dudes, hulu.com
<wolfger> so who's using Gmail Motion? ;-)
<rick_h_> heh, I thought it was april fools at first: freelish.us is a microblogging service. Users post short (0 character) notices which are broadcast to their friends and fans using the Web, RSS, or instant messages.
<wolfger> 0-character? That *is* short!
<rick_h_> yea
<snap-l> Yeah, I thought it was a joke as well
<snap-l> wolfger: Let me rephrase: I'm not clicking on stupid links today. ;)
<rick_h_> but yea, that's what we were looking at, ostatus and such
<greg-g> rick_h_: nice 44 gigs of lococast!
<_stink_> haha, Kids in the Hall clips.
<snap-l> _stink_: we all know who was watching Channel 9 when they were younger. ;)
<_stink_> hehe
<snap-l> "I watched Mr. Dressup and Sesame Street in French"
<snap-l> JoDee didn't like Sesame Street. I blame the French version of Sesame Street.
<snap-l> The Spanish version was far superior
<tjagoda> https://blog.opendns.com/2011/04/01/announcing-the-%25e2%2580%259cinternet-phonebook%25e2%2580%259d/
<greg-g> ugh
<greg-g> JonathanD: I have to admit, I don't think I've met you, have I? I don't remember knowing any Freenode staff, at least.
<JonathanD> greg-g: you haven't :P
<greg-g> JonathanD: well that's good then, at least my memory isn't as bad as what my gf says :)
<wolfger> greg-g: lucky guess != good memory :-)
<greg-g> wolfger: fair
<wolfger> Holy crap. IE9 scores 100% on ACID3?
<tjagoda> http://www.ironsky.net/site/support/therace/
<snap-l> I am currently streaming from my computer via the Squeezebox server to my iPhone using Safari, connecting to http://lister:9000/stream.mp3, playing Testament
<snap-l> We are truly living in the future.
 * wolfger drags snap-l kicking and screaming back to the present.
<wolfger> no flying cars for you
<JonathanD> greg-g: I'm from PA :)
<JonathanD> One of my "jobs" with freenode though is to help organize events in the eastern US, which is why I'm in a lot of ubuntu-us-state channels.
<greg-g> JonathanD: ahh, right on
<greg-g> well, welcome, make yourself at home :)
<JonathanD> Keeping the ear to the ground and all that.
 * greg-g nods
<snap-l> Hopefully we don't lose our charter. ;)
<wolfger> Big Brother is here. He's surveilling us. :-p
 * _stink_ stomps loudly
<Milyardo> Has anyone else used libhibernate in Maverick?
<wolfger> http://textaligncentaur.com/
<Milyardo> Not as cool as EyeDrops but funny none the less
<snap-l> http://www.eclipsephase.com/original-art-auction-support-libyan-rebels
<snap-l> http://identi.ca/notice/70209858
<_stink_> zing!
<jrwren> Milyardo: is libhybernate the java library?
<snap-l> rick_h_: Got some feedback on the Jasom Smith interview.
<rick_h_> snap-l: oh yea?
<greg-g> stupid frat boys playing rave music on the diag disturbing my work environment
<brousch> go tell those kids to get off yer lawn
<snap-l> greg-g: you have my permission to blast them with whatever music you have available to you
<brousch> urination is discouraged though
<wolfger> I encourage it. In the appropriate facilities.
<greg-g> snap-l: :) blast them some OMC out of my..... erm, laptop speakers :(
<snap-l> greg-g: I'll be right over with the big guns. ;)
<greg-g> sweet
<jrwren> saving the world from bad music, 1 tank of gas at a time.
<Milyardo> jrwren: Yeah, I keep getting ClassNotFound exceptions for org.hibernate.validator.HibernateValidator even though I have hibernate-validaor.jar in my classpath
<wolfger> greg-g: Tell them if they're going to play rave music, they have to supply you with some E. Or even e17. ;-)
<Milyardo> also I was wonder why the libhibernate-entitymanager-java package conflicts with libhibernate3
<Milyardo> *wondering
<Milyardo> hrmm libhibernate3-entitymanager-java says its its a dependency of of libhibernate3-java but libhibernate3-java doesn't list list libhibernate-entitymanager-java as a dependecy
<Milyardo> time to file bug reports
<jrwren> it should be a DAG.
<jrwren> cycles are bad, mmm kay
<Milyardo> DAG?
<jrwren> directed acyclic graph
<Milyardo> oh for the depedencies
<Milyardo> In the meantime I wonder why I'm getting the ClassNotFound exception
<Milyardo> unless HibnernateValidator is in entitymanager
<Milyardo> which would be counterintuitive
<greg-g> wolfger: :P
<greg-g> http://coffeecommon.com/post/4258699301/single-cup-vs-single-cup
<greg-g> no aprilfools, don't worry
<snap-l> Is there a command-line debugger for PHP code?
<tjagoda> The following is a quote from the Sysadmin words of wisdom list
<tjagoda> "Never... under any circumstances... use a Dell GX270 for anything that is even remotely important... ever. "
<snap-l> I'll shut up about squeezebox server in a bit, but I'm running mpg123 http://localhost:9000/stream.mp3 on my home machine.
<snap-l> tjagoda: Those machines should be practically run as thin clients if anything
<Milyardo> libhibernate3-java has hibernate-entitymanager-jar in it, so why is there a libhibernate-entitymanager?
<Milyardo> *.jar
<Milyardo> grrrr
<snap-l> Welcome to Java
<Milyardo> I'm not sure if thats a Java issue, more like a really dumb packaging issue
<snap-l> http://i.imgur.com/u9g93.jpg <- Blue Ray Player
<snap-l> I think one leads to the other
<greg-g> ummmm, snap-l rick_h_ _stink_ : https://identi.ca/doc/bookmarklet
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea, saw that with their bookmark specific status.net today
<rick_h_> http://freelish.us/
<snap-l> That's also one of the ideas that I had
<snap-l> ie: federated bookmarks
<rick_h_> right
<rick_h_> it sure seems they're shoe-horning this into existing status.net though
<snap-l> rick_h_: Yeah, it is
<snap-l> But it goes to show that we're not the only ones thinking that Delicious was a walled bookmark garden
<rick_h_> oh yea
<rick_h_> like I said when it came up earlier, it's the same thing I've got set to look at, ostatus and pubsub kind of thing
<snap-l> yep
<snap-l> We'll conquer the world yet
<snap-l> and get our own Cayman islands
<snap-l> I want the one on the left.
<rick_h_> heh, anyone know the right sql for altering a column in pgsql from char to int?
<snap-l> DROP TABLE xxx;
<snap-l> CREATE TABLE xxx... ;)
<snap-l> (not offhand, though it's likely ALTER TABLE)
<greg-g> rick_h_: definite shoe-horning, yes
<rick_h_> bah, casting error now
<greg-g> (sorry, I'm dumping links and leaving, only coming back a fwe minutes later to reply, one of those days)
<snap-l> It's because greg-g is busy saving the Internet
<snap-l> The Copyright Crusader
<greg-g> actually, this one thing I'm working on, I could argue that is indeed what I'm doing (in a very convoluted logical process, but still)
<brousch> add int column, run script to convert them all, del char column, rename int column?
<snap-l> fighting corporate whores by day
<rick_h_> there we go, <3 http://www.postgresonline.com/journal/archives/29-How-to-convert-a-table-column-to-another-data-type.html
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, trying to run an app in pgsql
<rick_h_> between all the damn camel case, and defining columns as string in one table and int in another...not going as smooth as hoped
<snap-l> I hated that at Chrysler
<jrwren> sounds like a terrible schema.
<rick_h_> it is
<rick_h_> I've been slowly correcting it since I got here
<snap-l> one of the tables they had was clearly intended to not be varchar
<rick_h_> but can only do so much without blowing it up
<snap-l> so they had shit in there for data
<rick_h_> finally have almost allof it in ORM vs manual queries
<snap-l> so they'd get stuff in there like ...
<snap-l> Or N/A
<rick_h_> lol
<snap-l> Yay, cumulative security update for IE6
<brousch> you use ie6?
<brousch> how many of you will be there sunday?
<snap-l> brousch: I have a corporate Xp laptop. Need you ask?
<snap-l> I'm planning on being there on Sunday.
<tjagoda> Oi vey
<tjagoda> I need a new Tech track head for 2012 penguicon
<tjagoda> Do we have any young impressionable tech folks? =P
<rick_h_> brousch: will be there as well
<snap-l> tjagoda: What happened this time around?
<snap-l> Is Krunal not working out?
<snap-l> or is he not doing it again
<tjagoda> Well
<tjagoda> He never attended meetings/asked questions/did anything
<tjagoda> and when challenged responds "nobody ever told me"
<brousch> doesn't it all just fall into place by itself?
<tjagoda> so not working out/not doing it
<tjagoda>  /murder brousch
<snap-l> Why does it seem that the tech track always ends in tears ?
<rick_h_> PC has a tech track :P
<rick_h_> ?
<tjagoda> stfu
<rick_h_> sorry, just kidding
<snap-l> Hah hah only serious
<tjagoda> It's hard to find tech people whom have organizational skills and are non-lazy
<rick_h_> yea, and aren't crazy busy
<tjagoda> People tend to use busy as an excuse more than they are actually busy I have found
<tjagoda> But I will give you the point
<snap-l> and have high tolerance for BS.
<tjagoda> Oh yeah
<tjagoda> That too
<tjagoda> It is a very young organization after all
<brousch> d00d i am busy playing mario kart wii
<tjagoda> seriously
<tjagoda> mario kart is srs bsns
<snap-l> Blu Sprks FTW!
<brousch> what is srs bsns?
<brousch> i d not understand this canadian slang
<tjagoda> srs bsns = serious business
<tjagoda> Anybody want to design a penguicon website for 2012?
<tjagoda> http://www.penguicon.org is ugly
<tjagoda> Silence overwhelming ;)
<brousch> tjagoda: are you seizing control of pc? lining up tech leads and web sites
<snap-l> tjagoda: I think we're all weighing the need vs the bickering that will occurring.
<snap-l> insert appropriate tense in that last sentence.
<tjagoda> brousch: I am the convention head for the year of 2012
 * snap-l is way too jaded for my own good
<Milyardo> using upstream jars makes all my problems go away \o/ should upload them to my PPA
<snap-l> Milyardo: Awesome
<tjagoda> brousch's interest clearly signals that he will do the project
 * tjagoda chains 
<Milyardo> How does mone package jars? should be easy right? you don't do any compliation
<snap-l> Milyardo: Not sure
<brousch> tjagoda: my site will be 25% uglier than the existing site
<tjagoda> UNPOSSIBLE
<brousch> and i will use django so no one will help me
 * jrwren raises hand for Sunday
<tjagoda> I should just use a stock drupal site or something
<brousch> yes, then you will get a lot of help
<brousch> from exprienced php devs
<snap-l> and inexperienced PHP devs
<snap-l> and from homeless people
<tjagoda> I'll take the homeless, as long as they dont flake or give me lice
 * jrwren holds up his WILL write <?php for food cardboard sign
 * snap-l listens to Frank Zappa Absolutely Free
<brousch> web2pyramid. ouch.
<greg-g> snap-l: dude, is JoDee serious about her cousins getting married at a pizza joint?
<binbrain> zing
<binbrain> so the joke here, I'm guessing, is the awful design of web2py, again, I'm guessing, but I've heard things
<binbrain> brousch, where did you find that?
<snap-l> greg-g: Partially.... they're my cousins
<snap-l> and I shit thee not
<greg-g> hahahaha
<greg-g> I loved the "partially...." part
<snap-l> Either they're pulling a huge prank on my family, or they're as stupid as they seem
<brousch> binbrain: twitter feed
<brousch> i think the flask guys were pimping it
<binbrain> ahh
<snap-l> greg-g: They're getting married at the Shields on Tlegraph
<binbrain> its a nice looking site for just apr fools joke, logos and all
<snap-l> called my parents to let them know this past weekend because "somebody cancelled"
<brousch> binbrain: maybe it's real!
<snap-l> We're still trying to figure out what the hell was the rush for them to get married on a Friday
<snap-l> greg-g: get me drunk enough, and I'll tell you the whole story at GJ
 * brousch picks up some dirty bastard
<binbrain> brousch: no chance
<rick_h_> binbrain: yea, big joke
<rick_h_> there was a HUGE thread in convore from pycon with people bashing web2py
<binbrain> well, web2py grow into something it wasn't supposed to be
<rick_h_> https://convore.com/pycon-2011/a-bias-survey-of-python-frameworks/
<rick_h_> yea, but the main guys are very happy to defend what most consider really bad practices
<binbrain> really
<jcastro> hey are there after-UGJ activities?
<jcastro> like we going for beers after or ... ?
<binbrain> I heard one of them explain what went wrong with design aspects of web2py, I think it was at an old pycon
<rick_h_> jcastro: yea, plan is to hit some place afterwards
<rick_h_> though not sure how long I can stay
<jcastro> k
<jcastro> man, talk about work from homeish.
<jcastro> I drove to lunch
<jcastro> and drove past a cop pulling some guy over
<jcastro> and realized I totally forgot to renew my registration
<binbrain> "Zope Through The Web editing feature is finally back in our stack, we're sorry for taking so long."
<jcastro> since I never drive
<binbrain> haha
<jcastro> oh nice
<jcastro> AND my license is expired
<jcastro> awesome
<snap-l> http://dev.twitter.com/pages/display_guidelines
<snap-l> So, should we do a dead-pool on Gwibber?
<snap-l> and twit vim?
<greg-g> brousch: mmmmm dirty bastard
<brousch> greg-g: it's not for you, it's to get snap-l drunk
<greg-g> snap-l: that would be a great april fools for the family
<greg-g> brousch: bah
<greg-g> jcastro: another yes to beers after, for a bit, but not for long given prior commitments
<jcastro> indeed
<jcastro> I am in for like 2 or 3
<greg-g> :)
<jcastro> make fun of jay wren, curse your town, and then move on
<jrwren> :(
<jrwren> just for that, imma buy smokes and make you smoke with me.
<jcastro> heh
<greg-g> haha
<brousch> ewwwwww
<rick_h_> woo! have everything but the mysql trigger moved over to postgres in my little test
<snap-l> nice!
<brousch> i plan to spend UGJ with a beer in my hand ,sitting behind rick_h_ and watching over his shoulder as he works his flying fingers
<rick_h_> I plan on doing a lot of thinking, so I'll be sitting still except for the stroking of my beard
<rick_h_> very pensively
<greg-g> I love stroking rick_h_'s, I mean, my beard
<rick_h_> it's the one true reason to have one :) to pensively stroke while thinking. Best code ideas come from that
<snap-l> God, is there anything more miserable than attachments in SOAP?
<brousch> i was going to download natty beta to some CDs for sunday and i'm a little confused
<brousch> i thought they killed off the netbook version
<brousch> bah, nevermind, there's an ARM netbook image and a "netboot" image that i read as "netbook"
<snap-l> I'm doing daily nightly downloads via zsyn
<snap-l> c
<brousch> it's always good to have some physical CDs along with the usb installers
<snap-l> I'm going to make some USB keys
<brousch> i need to install linux on something before i arrive so rick_h_ and jcastro don't stomp on my macbook
<jcastro> it's ok
<jcastro> I am used to hanging out with snap-l
<jcastro> hey snap-l
<jcastro> I tried to make a USB key but I failed
<jcastro> snap-l: when you make them
<jcastro> snag a daily ISO from tonight or tomorrow
<jcastro> there were so many unity fixes that landed this morning that the fresher the better
<brousch> so these betas i just downloaded are crap?
<brousch> rick_h_: can you add a pycon tag or category to lococast? i'd like to link to just the interviews
<brousch> jcastro: are you going to drop a giant wad f fixes again tomorrow?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-04-02
<rick_h_> brough, there's an interviews tag, and an interview category
<rick_h_> brousch: http://lococast.net/tag/pycon2011
<rick_h_> already on there
<rick_h_> or just http://lococast.net/category/interview
<rick_h_> lots of ways
<rick_h_> if I'm missing one let me know, I sometimes miss a tag
<brousch> awesome
<brousch> pimping you on Mike Driscoll's blog http://www.blog.pythonlibrary.org/2011/04/01/pycon-2011-post-pycon-articles/
<snap-l> jcastro: Yeah, I was going to wait until Saturday
<TeamXlink> Is there a good resource on creating what is basically a dial-up "isp" using Linux?
<rick_h_> brousch: nice, thanks for the plug
<snap-l> Anyone having trouble with gwibber and twitter?
<binbrain> twitters been intermittently broke for me the last few weeks, today I got 2 "opps, we're broke" messages then short time later they were resolved
<snap-l> Yeah, it was broked for me most of the day
<greg-g> snap-l: it's working ok for me
<snap-l> Not working over here.
<greg-g> weird
<snap-l> Wonder if some stupid usage limit is in play
 * greg-g shrugs
<greg-g> snap-l: I don't get it, because I'm using gwibber+twitter+identi.ca just fine right now, and all day
<greg-g> weird, Mendeley just crashed my compiz
<snap-l> greg-g: I think it was just rate limiting for me
<snap-l> Seems to be working now
<snap-l> I think the natty stuff is frozen for this weekend
<snap-l> haven't received any updates since I downloaded it a few days ago
<jrwren> Team-Xlink: most ISP docs are probably long lost from 15 years ago.
<jrwren> Team-Xlink: but if you can find PPP howto it probably covers it.
<Team-Xlink> lol perfect timing!
<Team-Xlink> I just woke up.
<Team-Xlink> Alright, sweet thank you@
<Team-Xlink> @
<Team-Xlink> !
<TeamXlink> Thats the best example I could come up with to relate what I'm trying to do too.
<snap-l> I'm creating 32bit disk images on USB keys. I'll have three of them
<snap-l> one of which will have a persistent filesystem
<brousch> i got 24 beers from various west MI breweries
<snap-l> brousch: Awesome!
<binbrain> brousch: nice, can't be all diff breweries though unless Michigan went brewery crazy
<binbrain> arcadia, founders, bells, dark horse
<binbrain> thinking
<binbrain> oh, Traverse City count? and New Holland
<brousch> new holland
<brousch> i got founders, arcadia, and new holland
<brousch> 2 from founders since its my favorite
<binbrain> had a beer from new holland a long time ago, one of my favorites I've had, and I don't like fruit beer, but it was a Blueberry Stout
<binbrain> Founders is great
<brousch> hah, yeah they have some crazy ones
<binbrain> forget, I was just at Founders, I had the backwoods something
<brousch> i love oatmeal stout, but can never find it in stores
<binbrain> Sam Smith has a good oatmeal stout, they have it everywhere here
<brousch> oh, they call it breakfast stout
<snap-l> I need to bring some chips and salsa. ;)
<brousch> yum
<brousch> we won't need an afterparty. it will be all party
<snap-l> wfm
<brousch> i don't know what that means
<snap-l> works for me
<brousch> ah
<brousch> i scoffed at the book of internet acronyms they were selling to old people at Flowerland. guess i should have bought one
<gamerchick02> hey, is anyone around and able to give me a hand?
<rick_h_droid> with?
<gamerchick02> GLib error of some sort.
<gamerchick02> i wanted to see if anyone was up before sending issues to the room. it's saturday, afterall.
<gamerchick02> GLib-GIO:ERROR:/build/buildd/glib2.0-2.28.4/./gio/gdbusconnection.c:2279:initable_init: assertion failed: (connection->initialization_error == NULL)
<gamerchick02> that's the error i get when i run sudo apt-get update
<gamerchick02> oh, and i did an upgrade to Natty last night.
<rick_h_droid> looking
<gamerchick02> danke.
<rick_h_droid> https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=655751
<rick_h_droid> is what i end up with
<rick_h_droid> known bug in gnome with su minus the -?
<gamerchick02> is there something i can modify to fix it?
<rick_h_droid> guess it's hitting the sudo call. try su - and then just apt-gey upgrade
<gamerchick02> su - ?
<gamerchick02> ok
<rick_h_droid> don't see a final solution in that bug :-(
<gamerchick02> ugh
<gamerchick02> well, the funny thing is... i never set a su password.
<gamerchick02> ha ha ha.
<rick_h_droid> so maybe a future update will help
<gamerchick02> maybe
<gamerchick02> blargh.
<rick_h_droid> hmm, not sure then. does the upgrade not work?
<gamerchick02> correct.
<rick_h_droid> or work with that error
<rick_h_droid> k
<gamerchick02> well, i can work with synaptic
<gamerchick02> seems to update in there
<rick_h_droid> yea, it's probably hard coded to do something diff
<gamerchick02> oi.
<gamerchick02> i wonder if it's been reported on launchpad?
<gamerchick02> thanks for the help, rick_h_droid
<gamerchick02> you're on your phone?
<rick_h_droid> yea, have the boy and no computers allowed
<rick_h_droid> only phones, no tv and such
<gamerchick02> ok...
<gamerchick02> thanks for your help. i'll wait it out and see if that's fixed.
<rick_h_droid> can you do a sudo su -?
<rick_h_droid> probably not, but want to make sure
<gamerchick02> nope
<snap-l> rick_h_droid: Are you at least reading or something?
<rick_h_droid> huh?
<snap-l> "only phones, no tv and such"
<rick_h_droid> no, sit on the floor and play with the boy
<rick_h_droid> Eric's working part of today
<rick_h_droid> but he just went down for naptime, so lunch and computer break
<snap-l> akh, ok
<rick_h_> bah, this isn't good
<gamerchick02> what's not good?
<rick_h_> has some more sticky key to clean up and now the trackpoint is acting up
<rick_h_> keys are great now, but the mouse is bad...might end up back at getting a new keyboard for the laptop after all :/
<gamerchick02> ugh.
<gamerchick02> well, least you know what's wrong? heh.
<rick_h_> yea, first time I ever spilled anything on a keyboard
<rick_h_> guess I was overdue
<gamerchick02> i'm lucky I haven't spilled anything either.
<gamerchick02> next to, but not on.
<snap-l> rick_h_: ugh
<rick_h_> yea, this was good for a spill too. I had a cover on the drink and only spilled a little bit
<rick_h_> but tea + honey == worse I guess
<gamerchick02> eeep.
<gamerchick02> it's the honey that did it.
<rick_h_> yea, :/ but you can't have earl grey without honey :P
<gamerchick02> i drink it plain... *shrug*
<gamerchick02> now, my coffee? not plain.
<gamerchick02> tea is almost always plain.
<snap-l> I drink 'em both plain
<gamerchick02> coffee and tea?
<gamerchick02> i guess i just prefer my coffee with cream and sugar and my tea plain. *shrug* tea is good with lemon though...
<rick_h_> I'm a slightly sweet guy
<tjagoda> Now he's not
<tjagoda> no*
<tjagoda> =P
<gamerchick02> heh
<rick_h_> little sweet-n-low with blacks like irish breakfast, etc...and honey in earl grey
<gamerchick02> :)
<gamerchick02> sounds good.
<greg-g> mmmm, this is the best mug of coffee I've made
<gamerchick02> :)
<gamerchick02> stupid question: why wasn't indicator datetime installed when i did the upgrade to Natty? and now when i start it from the menu, why won't it start? *frustrated*
<gamerchick02> gawd, i feel like a n00b.
<gamerchick02> ok. gonna log out and back in. again. blargh.
<gamerchick02> back. now indicator datetime is installed and working. whoo-hoo.
<rick_h_> yay
<rick_h_> snap-l: you try out the pgsql bookie install?
<greg-g> gamerchick02: yeah, sometimes with those indicator things I had bad experiences from upgrades, seems to be a tough upgrade path to always get right, or something
<gamerchick02> ah. thanks greg-g.
<gamerchick02> i was like "where's my bloody clock?!?!"
<greg-g> I haven't done Natty yet, but I had a similar issue with.... uhhh, Maverick maybe? one of the recent ones
<gamerchick02> yeah
<gamerchick02> I did a clean install of maverick on my laptop and it was good.
<gamerchick02> i *should* have done a clean beta install, i think....
<greg-g> gamerchick02: but, testing upgrades is also really important :/
<greg-g> gamerchick02: kind of a catch-22, the bugs won't be found if you don't do it, but you won't run into bugs (and thus will be better off) if you don't do it :)
<gamerchick02> yeah, it is important.
<gamerchick02> sorry about the signing in and out though, greg-g and everyone.
<gamerchick02> i've reported 4 bugs already.
<gamerchick02> indicator-weather, empathy, gwibber and compiz.
<nixternal> how is your global jam going?
<nixternal> chicago one is whack as hell today, and tomorrow i am not even bothering with it
<nixternal> fuckin' arch kids everywhere at this open source conference
<gamerchick02> oi
<rick_h_> heh, you don't like the arch guys nixternal ? :P
<greg-g> gamerchick02: awesome! 4 bug reports! mind linking to them so I can watch them/help out if needed?
<greg-g> nixternal: ours is tomorrow afternoon
<nixternal> rick_h_: no, they are all little twits, they need to be smacked around. they are what the gentoo idiots were 5 or so years ago
<jjesse> yay back to normal speed internet
<jjesse> no crappy hotel connection for a week :)
<brousch> nixternal: i have also noticed a lot of younger users going to arch lately
<brousch> makes them feel 1337
 * rick_h_ looks at that arch install disk on his desk...ummm
<brousch> see
<brousch> punk kids
<brousch> a lot of interest in those silly non-gnome window managers too. probably the same reason
<gamerchick02> no problem, greg-g. lemme find them again...
<greg-g> gamerchick02: cool! :) I'll try to see if people can replicate them/comment on them tomorrow during the jam
<gamerchick02> the jam is tomorrow? well, i'll try to be in the irc tomorrow.
<gamerchick02> :)
<brousch> rick_h_ snap-l I see pyohio is july 30, 31 this year. just thought you'd like to know
<gamerchick02> greg-g: weather indicator: https://bugs.launchpad.net/weather-indicator/+bug/748504
<gamerchick02> greg-g: empathy: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/empathy/+bug/748437
<snap-l> rick_h_: Not yet
<gamerchick02> greg-g: gwibber: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gwibber/+bug/748409
<gamerchick02> sorry, it was three, greg-g, not four, but if i hang around long enough, i'm sure to find another one...
<gamerchick02> i don't think the comiz one got through. >_<
<greg-g> gamerchick02: :) thanks!
<gamerchick02> you're welcome.
<greg-g> huh, I can't seem to get to those bugs
<gamerchick02> what? they're there in my profile... how strange.
<gamerchick02> :(
<gamerchick02> is launchpad broken?
<gamerchick02> whoa. i logged out and i can't get to them either.
<greg-g> could be, I'll take a look later
<greg-g> probably private? make them public, perhaps?
<gamerchick02> what. what. what.
<gamerchick02> there. all are public now.
<gamerchick02> i'm not sure why they were marked as private. that's stupid.
<gamerchick02> *shakes stick at launchpad*
<greg-g> gamerchick02: if they are automatically reported bugs, they might contain personal info, so yeah, better safe than sorry I guess. Though I thought they changed that default, since the actual likelihood that there was personal info (for the majority of packages) was low.
<gamerchick02> i'm at the point where i don't much care if there's personal info in there. I mean, how's it going to get fixed if nobody else can see it?
<gamerchick02> and i doubt it's really that bad.
<greg-g> well, like passwords
<gamerchick02> probably the same amount of private stuff google or microsoft get when you use chrome or IE
<gamerchick02> that could be a problem.
<greg-g> I've seen automatically reported bugs with passwords in them
<gamerchick02> eeep.
<greg-g> luckily they were private, I reviewed, deleted the passwords, then made public
<gamerchick02> i didn't check that...
<gamerchick02> whoops
<gamerchick02> ok. so i don't understand this error with empathy. it segfaulted. i started ebuddy, it reported that aim was signed on twice, then empathy came back to life?
<gamerchick02> it's like a zombie or something.
<gamerchick02> lococast time! :)
<brousch> i'm hoping to cram in half a dozen podcasts while driving tomorrow
<gamerchick02> oooh. fun stuff. i'm catching up. again. >_<
<brousch> where rick_h_ is involved, i always feel like i'm catching up, again. i can't imagine working for/with him
<gamerchick02> hehe. i'm *always* catching up on podcasts.
<brousch> poor tjagoda http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/11/04/02/2159217/Android-Passes-BlackBerry-In-US-Market-Share
<tjagoda> Meh
<tjagoda> I am not worried
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-04-03
<snap-l> http://i.imgur.com/pAKhI.png
<_stink_> haha
<jcastro> snap-l: so good news
<jcastro> I got mail from the software center guys
<jcastro> they need help picking the "featured applications" in natty
<jcastro> so guess what we're going to do. :)
<snap-l> Hey, I'm all for helping with that. :)
<brousch> greg-g: you awake? I've got 2 passengers with me today
<brousch> bah, what ascrub, i just signed up on the event page
<snap-l> I love it... AT&T has be down as blocked for sending spam messages.
<snap-l> when DNSBL has no such record of me being blocked
<snap-l> (dnsbl.info)
<snap-l> and the person that I'm responding to is my aunt, who sends out a bunch of shit forwards.
<snap-l> gah, thy updated the natty image last night
<greg-g> snap-l: really?
<greg-g> ugh
<greg-g> don't have time to redownload, really
<snap-l> I have it
<snap-l> I'm making three usb keys
<snap-l> and I'll burn a DVD of the ISO images.
<greg-g> awesome, my 2 (x86 and amd64) are from the previous day iso, oh well
<snap-l> Yeah, no biggie
<snap-l> I set up a cron job that would update them overnight. :)
<greg-g> nice
<snap-l> I knew this would happen. ;)
<snap-l> Somehow my DVD drive is going slower than a turtle
<snap-l> 2.7GiB, and it's taking a good 10+ minutes to burn
<jrwren> nixternal: why so negative?
<jrwren> 1k
<jrwren> oops, that was the kiddo
<jrwren> damn, I need to get in the shower if i'm gonna leave in 20min
<greg-g> :) I'm heading out now to go get snacks (any last requests?) and drop off a movie at the library
<greg-g> ohai
<rick_h_> wheee
<greg-g> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/749557
<gamerchick02> how's the jam going?
<rick_h_> party
<greg-g> gamerchick02: good good!
<greg-g> 16 of us here
 * greg-g just counted
<gamerchick02> sweet
<gamerchick02> i'm a supporter in the IRC room.
<gamerchick02> :)
<greg-g> yay! :0
<greg-g> :)
<jrwren> :p
<jjesse> love the snow, rain and thunder yay for spring
<gamerchick02> ugh. Yeah, looked out the window and saw snow. it's like "what?"
<snap-l> Howdy from Natty
<snap-l> or at least ssh fron natty
<jjesse> in vm or actual install?
<jjesse> wow lots of thunder
<gamerchick02> hope the power doesn't go out. that'd really put a damper on the jam, eh?
<gamerchick02> how are you liking it, snap-l?
<snap-l> It's pretty nice
<snap-l> This is an actual machine
<gamerchick02> how do you like Unity? ;)
<snap-l> It's growing on me
<gamerchick02> it's growing on me too. i wasn't impressed in Maverick, but i'm much more impressed in Natty.
<gamerchick02> i like the auto-hiding launcher
<greg-g> yeah
<jjesse> wow radar looks a bit crazy
<jjesse> snow in lansing area and east
<jjesse> thunderstorms in grand rapids and west
<gamerchick02> thundersnow!
<jjesse> that was earlier for us do you have it
<gamerchick02> it stopped snowing, but it looks gloomy out.
<greg-g> that radar is crazy!
<jjesse> yeah looks like most of the storm has gone east
<jjesse> anyone running natty in vbox?
<jjesse> everytime i try and install the additions and restart it just boots to the console
<greg-g> jjesse: it wasn't working too well for me last night, Unity wouldn't run
<jrwren> my server upgrade is very smooth so far.
<snap-l> Some nice things with the interfeace
<jcastro> krondor: I crashed weird and am stuck rotating in one direction
<jcastro> any ideas?
<jrwren> jcastro: I've got a sweet bug, I need you to point me in a direction.
<jcastro> ok
<jrwren> jcastro: i built monodevelop from master(trunk) and I get no menu
<jrwren> now it uses gtk-sharp which is built againt 2.12 I think.
<jcastro> oh I know about MD
<jrwren> I'm wondering if that is it.
<jcastro> yeah it does dynamic menus
<jrwren> oh yeah? about missing menu for MD?
<jcastro> which is why it doesn't work
<jcastro> yeah
<jcastro> it's an older bug
<jrwren> duh - i should have searched LP first :)
<jcastro> I need to ask someone about it, there was someone (who I can't remember) who was looking at it
<jrwren> I'm so nub sometimes.
<jcastro> it's ok
<jrwren> found this: http://www.ubuntugeek.com/list-of-ubuntu-unity-keyboard-shortcuts.html  which is totally sweet.
<jcastro> no one can find anything in lp, that's not your fault
<jcastro> http://askubuntu.com/questions/28086/unity-keyboard-mouse-shortcuts
<jcastro> this is the canonical article, they just copied mine
<jcastro> and didn't bother updating it
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-03-26
<snap-l> rick_h: What the hell is with the countdown?
<brousch> snap-l: http://paste.mitechie.com/show/584/
<rick_h> morning
<snap-l> Welcome back to Michigan
<snap-l> And what, pray tell, is the dignificance of 3/29 at 9:41:06?
<rick_h> party
<rick_h> snap-l: it's https://store.yubico.com/store/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=73&osCsid=9c507929d46139feac0df2ed001d3dca
<rick_h> either I bump it or the boy bumps it and it dumps the code to the screen active window and hits enter
<snap-l> Hah, OK. :)
<rick_h> I'm moving it to another usb port to try to not hit it as often
<rick_h> but it just barely sticks out and just picks up being touched
<snap-l> What platforms use it, or is it just for work auth?
<rick_h> for work is the reason I picked it up
<rick_h> there's some standard stuff that uses it I guess, but not for everything.
<snap-l> Ah, so they let you expense it, and you get to keep it?
<snap-l> or was it "here's the options, you pick what you want to use?"
<rick_h> it was more here's a list of tools to use. I've also got an android app and I figured a button on the laptop would be the fastest/easiest to use
<snap-l> Yeah, definitely.
<brousch> ug mondays
<brousch> hard drive in the dell is dying. looks like i'll be slumming on the MBP
<jrwren> gmorn
<jrwren> my server has been limping along iwth a dying hard drive for over a year.
<jrwren> so maybe it isn't "dying" as much as it is partially disabled.
<snap-l> jrwren: Any particular reason you haven't replaced it yet? :)
<jrwren> that would require a few free hours of my time
<jrwren> i've no wish to spend my time that way
<jrwren> i'd rather just power cycle that server every month when it freezes
<snap-l> of course.
<jrwren> up 19 days now. whoo hoo!
<snap-l> and when the drive completely dies? :)
<jrwren> restore from backup and spend the 2hrs then.
<brousch> i have both running right now while i move all my crap over
<snap-l> I take it this server isn't doing much
<jrwren> its my primary home server.
<jrwren> it does everything for me.
<brousch> being totally down would be very bad
<snap-l> jrwren: I see
<snap-l> jrwren: I hope you test your backups.
<jrwren> but it only hurts me and my wife. we can't watch "our shows"
<jrwren> hehe.
<jrwren> i dno't really test my backups.
<jrwren> but they are just tars.
<brousch> unfortunately i had the MBP wiped and ready for sale
<jrwren> one of a very few backup approaches that have never failed for me
<snap-l> jrwren: I'm glad you're a developer and not a sysadmin. :)
<jrwren> snap-l: that is snide and foolish
<snap-l> Your lack of paranoia frightens me.
<jrwren> ha!
<jrwren> your lack of sane risk analysis depresses me.
<snap-l> touche
<jrwren> *personal attack back at ya* kachow! :)
<jrwren> remember, i was formerly a sysadmin.
<snap-l> jrwren: I'm very paranoid around HDDs, though
<snap-l> Are they in a RAID at least?
<jrwren> but in all seriousness i could lose this thing and I wouldn't care very much.
<snap-l> (like I'm one to talk. My desktop drives aren't raided)
<jrwren> i can rerip CDs
<jrwren> i can redownload ISOs
<snap-l> jrwren: nod
<jrwren> i can reinstall linux.
<jrwren> what else does it do?
<jrwren> code goes to github or lp
<jrwren> not sure what else I have there... nothing I think.
<jrwren> its really not that important.
 * jrwren says as he crosses fingers and hopes it doesn't die
<snap-l> jrwren: After deleting my one drive, and having to re-rip, I've gotten a lot more anal about backup
<jrwren> right as we were typing this, it failed a write ;(
<snap-l> That said, it's sitting on my desk a few feet from the machine
<snap-l> jrwren: Ouch
<jrwren> does anyone know screen/byobu very well?  I turned off hardstatus and now that line is going ot my xterm title?
<jrwren> it is weird, but also kinda cool.
<snap-l> jrwren: Never turned it off, but that is kind of cool  / annoying. :)
<jrwren> what is the most useful vim command you ever learned?
<brousch> G
<brousch> wait, no Esc
<jrwren> beyond the 2 page cheat sheet of unix in a nutshell
<_stink_> heh
<rick_h> au FileType $something set...
<jrwren> top 3 or top 5?
<snap-l> jrwren: u
<snap-l> usually in rapid succession. :)
<jrwren> and then a ctrl-r ?
<snap-l> sometimes.
<snap-l> But undo has saved my bacon more than once.
<snap-l> and removed my bacon more than once.
<jrwren> me too, but i can usually git reset or checkout or something to save my bacon
<jrwren> i ask because I just made great use of mksession
<snap-l> jrwren: Assuming I'm using git and have recently checked in, yes. ;)
<jrwren> but i also learned Sex/Vex recently
<snap-l> jrwren: How could you recently learn Sex? :)
<jrwren> and I thought maybe folks would have sweet favorites like those.
<jrwren> snap-l: i never really knew what that thing down tehre was used for.
<jrwren> snap-l: the status bar i mean
<snap-l> jrwren: I'm totally posting that on bash.org. :)
<jrwren> can if you want. i was just quoting MSI cuz i thought it would be funny.
<snap-l> ;)
<snap-l> http://bash.org/?950583
<snap-l> I lolled
<_Marcus> "Quote #950583 is pending moderation."?
<snap-l> yes, it'll take some time
<rick_h> jrwren: I used the session stuff for a bit, but found it too much work to keep up and going
<rick_h> jrwren: but really, I find that for the most part vim is movement commands, updating config stuff based on ft in a custom way, and the plugins that make my life easier
<rick_h> after splits/buffers, etc, I don't get into a ton else there
<brousch> my laptop is running fast after its HD issue earlier. i'm scared to hit the swap
<rick_h> grrr, I've done that a few times lately. Somehow freezing my irssi window
<snap-l> brousch: You can tell Linux how swappy you want it to be.
<brousch> yeah, but with my measly 4GB i am hitting it frequently. i'd rather it not just kill things
<snap-l> It won't directly kill things
<snap-l> you can just set the priority lower
<jrwren> rick_h: you still use nerdtree?
<rick_h> yea, but working on using ctrlp and not using it as much
<jrwren> i never adopted nerdtree, so Explore is very nice for me.
<snap-l> ctrlp?
<rick_h> like command-T but pure vimscript vs ruby
<snap-l> Oh that helps.
<snap-l> http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=3736
<snap-l> Looks like a pain in the ass
<rick_h> now so?
<snap-l> Just looked a little complicated from the description
<snap-l> CHekcing it out now
<rick_h> http://kien.github.com/ctrlp.vim/ seems pretty good intro/walk through
<rick_h> basically setup a couple of settings, some ignores, and stop auto chwd and works ok so far for me
<snap-l> How do you open it in a new window?
<rick_h> don't know, I just split, and then run it
<rick_h> or just run it and go back/forth between buffers
<snap-l> meh. I'll give it a shot
<rick_h> I've mapped ;; to swap buffers so finding myself doing that a lot more recentl.y
<snap-l> I think I've gotten too used to Nerdtree. :)
<snap-l> though I can see why this would be appealing
<rick_h> yea, you have to know what you're looking for
<rick_h> so for projects you know well it's awesome
<rick_h> but when I'm searching/finding things or exploring I launch NT
<rick_h> so bookie is almost 100% ctrlp now, but launchpad is still some 60% nerdtree walking
<jrwren> hardstatus ignore v. alwyasignore. got that byobu hardstatus out of my window title
<snap-l> I wish my sinuses would stop building a dam
<snap-l> Tomorrow sees the release of the latest OMC Instrumetalcast
<snap-l> And I found enough stuff that the next episode may not be far behind
<snap-l> http://memoirsofficial.bandcamp.com/ <- Worthy of your attention, instrumental djents.
<ColonelPanic001> \o/
<ColonelPanic001> bookmarking.
<ColonelPanic001> after Cloudkicker, never ignoring a bandcamp link from you again
<snap-l> ColonelPanic001: That could be dangerous. :)
<snap-l> But yeah, Bandcamp appears to be where I'm getting a lot of the "OMG" music
<ColonelPanic001> probably
<snap-l> Jamendo is stagnating
<ColonelPanic001> never really used it much - just listned to bands I'm linked to, etc
<ColonelPanic001> Jamendo as a great idea, it's just a lot of stuff to sift through, imho
<snap-l> Well, they've made it 100x worse to release albums
<snap-l> so what used to be a decent flow is now a trickle
<snap-l> that and they moved servers to be with their new parent company
<snap-l> So that always makes things fun
<ColonelPanic001> heh
<snap-l> Nice, managed to have a process wedged on my machine since the 24th
<snap-l> no wonder my machine was acting a little wonky
 * snap-l wonders if he should be using some form of CPU monitor in the systray after all. ;)
<rick_h> heh, if your system is acking wonky you're supposed to run top :P
<snap-l> Yeah yeah, I know.
<brousch> i have cpu, ram, swap, and network monitors always running
<snap-l> brousch: You're running KDE. I'm surprised your titlebar isn't a stock ticker.
<brousch> i have a whole panel for clocks and stock tickers
<jjesse> brousch,  has a panel of panels
<brousch> i created a full screen panel and filled it with panels
<snap-l> He's got a panel of a panel where he's peeking at his ports
<snap-l> and a cadre of clocks his appointments to support
<snap-l> with a wall of wobbly windows his functions find a fort
<snap-l> and a network sniffing tracer tracing traffic of all sorts
<snap-l> greg-g: You have unleashed the fury.
<snap-l> http://blog.grossmeier.net/2012/03/25/why-i-dont-buy-ebooks-anymore/comment-page-1/#comment-11902
<brousch> snap-l++
<brousch> that was for the KDE poem
<greg-g> snap-l: :) yay fury, or is that furry ;)
<snap-l> greg-g: You'll have to come to Penguicon for the furry.
 * waldo323_ runs away
<widox> rick_h: https://github.com/kennethreitz/autoenv similar to workit
<rick_h> widox: yea, but is messes with cd and not a fan of that
<widox> rick_h: right. I just haven't seen too many general tools like that
<rick_h> widox: yea, there's some issues that overloading cd create, some rails tool shave a history of doing that
<greg-g> apparently Rowan just rolled over from his tummy to his back
<rick_h> greg-g: woot!
<rick_h> here comes trouble
<greg-g> no kidding
<rick_h> I remember that first time I put him down, went to get a drink and then found him off his blaket across the room going "WTF!?"
<greg-g> lol
<rick_h> it's like a switch, they just suddenly start going
<brousch> time to babyproof everything
<greg-g> no. kidding.
<greg-g> That'll be a fun house meeting with the roommates. "No, you can't leave your used needles on the floor anymore"
<rick_h> bah, need more books. Up to 4 audible credits to use up this month
<rick_h> lol
<greg-g> :)
<brousch> greg-g: wow. who are you rooming with?
<brousch> i thought everyone in SF smoked pot, not shot up
<greg-g> oh right...
<greg-g> "No, you can not leave your bong on the floor, he *will* tip it over"
<jrwren> lol
 * jrwren calls SFCPS
<snap-l> rick_h: http://www.audible.com/pd?asin=B002V0QDLM
<snap-l> Not sure how many credits it is, but it should keep you busy for a while.
<greg-g> "abridged" lack of commitment
<greg-g> http://www.audible.com/pd/ref=sr_1_1?asin=B002V0Q84E&qid=1332788166&sr=1-1
<greg-g> ^^ there ya go
<greg-g> 41 hours
<snap-l> Ah, very good then
<snap-l> I thought that was running a bit short.
<greg-g> :)
<rick_h> heh, cool
<brousch> pshaw. amateurs http://www.audible.com/pd/ref=sr_1_1?asin=B0077DEH7A&qid=1332788222&sr=1-1
<brousch> 47 hours
<snap-l> brousch: I read that book
<snap-l> I think by the middle I wanted every one dead.
<snap-l> Stephen King is one of those authors where I seek out the abridged versions
<brousch> i read tons of stephen king in HS
<snap-l> tried reading Insomina once. After a while I wondered why I was doing this to myself.
<snap-l> It felt like a novella pounded into a novel.
<greg-g> I liked some of SK's stuff, like Bag of Bones and the first few of the Gunslinger series (only read 2 or 3)
<ColonelPanic001> I've only ever read "The Long Walk"
<greg-g> in my group of geek friends, Stephen King was our replacement for Tolkien or Gaiman
<greg-g> you know, I'm wondering, should I get the humble bundle again for Rowan when he's of age?
<greg-g> I mean, Snuggle Truck seems like a good early game
<brousch> nah, just get him on pbs kids
<greg-g> "In Snuggle Truck, you must overcome treacherous terrain get your cargo of precious stuffed animals safely to the zoo, in an adorable take on the "trials" game genre. "
<greg-g> any other opinions. brousch went with "just hand him over to the commies"
<snap-l> greg-g: How old is Rowan?
<snap-l> I think he might be a little too young for that sort of thing
<brousch> indeed
<snap-l> though I'm a huge fan of the HUmble Bundle for other things.
<greg-g> snap-l: yeah, definitely no game time yet, he just figured out how to roll over from his tummy to his back (he's 3.5 mos)
<greg-g> I was thinking in preparation for when he's older, like, I don't know when
<brousch> as soon as he can sit up
<greg-g> heh
<snap-l> greg-g: Well, think about it this way
<snap-l> how likely are you to be running Android 2 devices when he's 2?
<greg-g> given that my phone isn't yet android 2.0..... no effing clue :)
<brousch> eh? wtf phone do you have?
<greg-g> oh, wait, sorry
<greg-g> I am confused on android versions
<brousch> -100 geek points
<greg-g> my phone (LG Optimus V) is at 2.2.1
<brousch> that's pretty old
<greg-g> yeah, figured
<greg-g> Virgin Mobile doesn't give a hoot
<greg-g> but its cheap, and I mostly still use it just as a phone plus twitter/identica/email
<brousch> ah, i thought about doing that
<brousch> their crappy coverage area was the biggest turn-off
<greg-g> virgin == sprint
<greg-g> and the only one with a major difference/improvement is verizon, which is stupidly expensive (for my usage)
<brousch> att and sprint are both really spotty north of GR, where all of my parents/grandparents live
 * greg-g nods
<snap-l> brousch: Where they live, it's probably ma and pa shanty wireless and feed store.
<snap-l> http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012/mar/26/news-corp-ondigital-paytv-panorama <- wow
<greg-g> this is pretty neat: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Files_from_the_Australian_Broadcasting_Corporation
<greg-g> http://creativecommons.org.au/weblog/entry/3465
<snap-l> greg-g: That is pretty cool.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-03-27
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h> morning
<jrwren> good mornin
<jrwren> does flav still idle here?
<jrwren> n0p: is there such a thing as idiomatic PHP? where can I learn about it? where is PHP's version of pep8 ?
<jrwren> yes, i'm doing PHP. lemme know if you would like a new job :)
<rick_h> widox: is the other PHP guy
<rick_h> Zend coding standards I think the pep8 of the php world
<rick_h> http://framework.zend.com/manual/en/coding-standard.html
<jrwren> thanks rick_h
<rick_h> I'm far enough out that idiomatic might be a stretch for me. I mean it does have namespaces now and such
<jrwren> i have not seen them used.
<jrwren> but that is a great point. i should be glad that classes are even used on thsi project :)
<rick_h> lol
<rick_h> it seems to have gotten better. I think I saw mixins in the latest release
<jrwren> we are still on 4.something, I think.
<rick_h> no way
<jrwren> oh, 5.3.10
<jrwren> i'm surprised
<rick_h> well in that case you're doomed
<jrwren> well, its in an embeded system.
<jrwren> hehe. that is waht the indian guy said.
<rick_h> ah, ok better. So I think 5.3 added namespaces
<rick_h> yea, but I was using 5.1 5+ years ago
<jrwren> but basically the web front end for network appliances
<rick_h> but yea, ok 5.3 would be reasonable I'd think
<jrwren> ok, we are alreayd not following the first two of the zend coding standards. *sigh*
<jrwren> Zend_Db_Table lives in Zend/Db/ folder *sigh*
<jrwren> nope, not doing that eithr.
<rick_h> heh, well then have fun :)
<jrwren> its ok, a lot of these are stupid.
<jrwren> way too much java influence in teh PHP world.
<jrwren> PHP might as well just be typeless java :p
<rick_h> yea, but it's something. The trouble is that you can get away with doing none of it
<snap-l> jrwren: PHP for me is backwater Perl. :)
<jrwren> current codebase is doing none of it, and honestly, I think I like it ;)
<jrwren> snap-l: hehe, good point. maybe those that want to write java in perl choose php?
<jrwren> luckily i won't be doing this PHP for very long
<snap-l> famous last words.
<widox> jrwren: heh, if you want Java influenced PHP look at symfony
<jrwren> widox: i DONT want java influcenced php
<snap-l> jrwren: Oh come now, what could be better than half-assed OO in a half-assed template language?
<snap-l> (trololololol)
<jrwren> i have great respect for PHP. I love wordpress.
<jrwren> i'm convinced that it is possible to have a "good" php codebase.
<jrwren> i've just never seen one :)
<jrwren> because good is subjective
<jrwren> and what I think is bad, many p eople think is good.
<jrwren> and visa versa.
<jrwren> but I'm right, and tehy are wrong ;p
<snap-l> jrwren: I've seen some elegance in PHP code
<snap-l> much in the same way that I can see elegance in a broken teapot
<snap-l> And there are some good PHP codebases out there
<jrwren> i haven't looked at WP code in a while, has it cleaned up any?
<snap-l> and some that have some major issues.
<snap-l> jrwren: WP 3 made some pretty big improvements
<jrwren> i have hacked on some WP plugins recently, and its been damned easy.
<jrwren> about the only thing i got out of those zend coding standards were doc comments :(
<jrwren> 5.4 added traits
<jrwren> interesting.
<rick_h> yea
<jrwren> the more i learn about ruby, the more i love python
<rick_h> yep
<jrwren> and please don't repeat it around rubyists. i realize that statement is flamebait
<rick_h> there are a couple of things I like in ruby land, but really can't ever get where I want to do it vs python
<tjagoda> http://dissociatedpress.net/2012/03/27/ubuntu-were-not-linux/
<tjagoda> ping rick_h
<rick_h> tjagoda: howdy
<rick_h> heh, saw that link. I pretty much ignore Joe :)
<tjagoda> I think he's got the hots for SUSE
<rick_h> meh, he's got the hots for Canonical bashing. We had this argument around the Locos concept on OLF
<tjagoda> Or some weird pseudo-communist view of open source contribution
<tjagoda> He was once the OpenSUSE community manager
<rick_h> yea
<tjagoda> his hatred of the brown and orange flows deep
<tjagoda> I made a few replies, and he generally ignored my points about "Why is this surprising, they are operating at financial loss ffs"
<rick_h> tjagoda: yea, I mean he's not exactly been unbiased for some time.
<tjagoda> it is kind of weird that they mask Linux under the Ubuntu brand though
<tjagoda> I get why they do it
<tjagoda> But it seems like a big risk of slighting people
<brousch> rick_h: you on the michipug mailing list?
<rick_h> brousch: yea
<rick_h> last I looked I think. Pretty low key
<brousch> ok, then i won't forward this to you
<brousch> some guy asking about metro detroit python
<rick_h> k
<rick_h> brousch: ah ok I see the email. I'll reply about CHC and such. thanks
<jrwren> wow.
<jrwren> that ubuntu we're not linux post is scathing.
<jrwren> who is this jerk?
<jrwren> I know for sure that a lot of what he says is b.s.
<tjagoda> Joe Brockmier
<tjagoda> I'm uncomfortable when jrwren agrees with me
<tjagoda> Feels like the universe has somehow lost balance
<rick_h> man, I need to update the CHC site still, I suck
<rick_h> anyone feel like volunteering to learn how to setup the appengine crap?
<brousch> i have used appengine
<Blazeix> i'd also be willing to learn. i'll be at CHC tomorrow
<brousch> like anything, it has its good and bad points
<rick_h> Blazeix: cool, we'll make it a goal to get the site updated. It's a horrible little app
<rick_h> Blazeix: what's your gmail address you use mainly?
<Blazeix> rick_h: wafuqua
<rick_h> Blazeix: ok, email sent
<Blazeix> thanks, accepted
<brousch> if it's little, how horrible can it be?
<_Marcus> Viruses are small, and yet they can still kill you.
<snap-l> Joe tends to be a more moderate opinion in the FLOSS world
<snap-l> but yeah, I think he's putting way too much stock in word choice
<brousch> _Marcus: but they multiply into many. i don't think that's likely with a GAE app
<jrwren> really? that is moderate?
<snap-l> but, then again, he's a writer. Writers tend to choose their words very carefully, and expect the same in others.
<jrwren> well then fuck the FLOSS world.
<snap-l> jrwren: Compared with some of the tools I've seen, yes.
<jrwren> i do agree with him a bit about rhetoric toward RHAT.
<snap-l> jrwren: He at least acknowledges Ubuntu. :)
<_Marcus> brousch: GAE = Google App Engine?
<jrwren> what happened to "we are all in this together agianst the closed source vendors"
<snap-l> I think the biggest problem is people see Mark as a technologist
<brousch> _Marcus: correct
<snap-l> when he's a very motivated salesperson
<_Marcus> brousch: Google products are strange things, you never know what could happen
<snap-l> jrwren: Agreed, but Mark Shuttleworth is trying to sell a product
<snap-l> plain and simple.
<jrwren> really? what product is that?
<snap-l> Ubuntu as a server
<snap-l> Ubuntu as a cloud platform
<snap-l> Ubuntu as a single-source for all of your server needs
<jrwren> then he is doing a terrible job, because I didn't even know about these product offereings :)
<jrwren> he needs to hire a salesforce.
<jrwren> speaking of which, who are his salesmen?
<snap-l> jrwren: That I couldn't tell you.
<tjagoda> Ubuntu rolls up something like 1200 new cloud instances every day
<tjagoda> According to an interview with their CEO
<tjagoda> The sales departments are still in the process of growing, it was founded very engineer-heavy
<snap-l> tjagoda: As it should be
<jrwren> snap-l: why should it be enginner-heavy ?
<tjagoda> At start up it should be
<tjagoda> The rest of its life it should not be
<jrwren> does canonical even qualify as a startup anymore? its been 8 yrs, right?
<snap-l> jrwren: Once you get marketing folks involved, they tend to push out the engineers
<tjagoda> I'd still call them a start up
<tjagoda> They'll be start ups until they reach critical mass
<jrwren> did RHAT reach critical mass?
<tjagoda> Definitely
<jrwren> what does critical mass even look like for RHAT or canonical ?
<snap-l> jrwren: I'd say once they go solely into maintenance mode, they'll stop being a start-up
<tjagoda> They roll in the pimp moneydollars
<snap-l> jrwren: RHAT is no longer a start-up
<snap-l> they are the first OSS Billion dollar company
<jrwren> snap-l: but RHAT isn't solely in maintenance mode.
<tjagoda> Red Hat swims in pools of money
<tjagoda> In other news
<jrwren> zomg, if RHAT swims in money, i don't want to live in open source land.
<tjagoda> RMS fills me with anger
<snap-l> jrwren: It is the way of things
<snap-l> SUN used to be an OSS company
<jrwren> when did they change ticker to RHT?
<tjagoda> Then they started swimming in pools of money
<jrwren> SUN was NEVER an OSS company
<tjagoda> Ironically though
<snap-l> jrwren: Bull
<tjagoda> Most of Red hats $$$ come from commerical proprietary software
<jrwren> if you think SUN was EVER OSS, then you are delusional.
<jrwren> what Redhat $$$ comes from commercial proprietary software?
<snap-l> jrwren: SUN was OSS before any of us knew what SUN was. They were a UNIX distribution company that started making hardware
<tjagoda> Huge, huge swaths
<tjagoda> Please hold while I google
<jrwren> snap-l: you realize that SunOS and Solaris were closed source until well into 2000s ?
<jrwren> that is not OSS
<snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Microsystems#History
<snap-l> And once they came out of the post-bubble crash, they started opening things back up again
<jrwren> and JAVA was never open source until openjava.
<snap-l> I fully believe Sun would have become an OSS company had they not screwed up their finances.
<jrwren> so now its that they would have been...
<jrwren> not that they were.
<snap-l> jrwren: Right
<tjagoda> http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-9931271-16.html
<jrwren> good.
<tjagoda> That articles a bit old
<jrwren> agreed.
<jrwren> Sun was never an OSS company
<tjagoda> But it's what I was referring to
<tjagoda> Red hat makes a lot of $$$ from selling Lotus and etc. Linux-enabled
<jrwren> Lotus ?
<jrwren> that is IBM owned is it not?
<snap-l> tjagoda: RHAT doesn't have much to do with Lotus.
<tjagoda> Did I say they wrote/owned Lotus?
<jrwren> you implied it.
<tjagoda> I did not
<tjagoda> Linux-enabled
<jrwren> your claim is false. sorry.
<snap-l> Oh FFS
<tjagoda> http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-9931271-16.html
<tjagoda> Go read
<snap-l> that article is rubbish in the first two paragraphs.
<jrwren> RHT has no clsoed source software.
<tjagoda> They sell Lotus Domino from IBM on Red hat services as bundles
<jrwren> I see.
<tjagoda> They do a lot of stuff like that
<jrwren> 12:42   tjagoda| Most of Red hats $$$ come from commerical proprietary software
<tjagoda> where they bundle the proprietary onto the open
<jrwren> my bad.
<snap-l> tjagoda: And Oracle sells Oracle DB on RHAT-derived Linux
<jrwren> I assumed this was RHT's proprietary software.
<jrwren> but you mean other proprietary software.
<tjagoda> Correct
<jrwren> "come from" means lots of things there.
<jrwren> lots of abiguity
<snap-l> God, apparently today is semantic bingo
<jrwren> semantics are important.
<snap-l> Yes, but two articles about OSS semantics
<snap-l> The jzb article and the Matt Asay article
<jrwren> yeah, no shit.
<snap-l> slow fucking new day.
<tjagoda> The core of my point was trying to express that a non-insignificant portion of RHT revenue comes from selling bundled proprietary stuff on RHT platforms
<snap-l> news
<jrwren> taht is from 4 yrs ago.
<jrwren> tjagoda: definitely agree.
<snap-l> Ah, didn't see the date.
<jrwren> I'd guess that at least 25% if not 50% of RHT revenue comes from selling RHEL support for running oracle installs.
<tjagoda> The only thing Red Hat itself has that is not open is their OpenShift platform
<snap-l> I'd argue that there's a lot less Domino sales nowadays
<snap-l> Microsoft has pretty much eaten that market with Exchange
<snap-l> Now it's all Exchange and Exchange-compatibles.
<tjagoda> If you want a recent article talking about red hat and proprietary stuff go read the Ars Tech one that ran a couple weeks ago, I think it's a footnote in there
<jrwren> GM is still Notes :(
<snap-l> jrwren: They're the last of the big three to use notes
<snap-l> Chrysler recently switched
<jrwren> i wonder if RHT is anti GPL3 now that they have built openshift on OSS stuff
<tjagoda> I'm sure they will eventual OSS OpenShift
<tjagoda> They have a rather proven track record in all their proprietary acquisitions eventually getting OSS'ed
<snap-l> http://www.ihatelotusnotes.com/
<jrwren> i'm not sure why I would use openshift over heroku
<jrwren> heroku seems to be market leader int aht space right now
<snap-l> jrwren: All it takes is a few months of effort to unseat a leader
<snap-l> especially in cloud foo
<jrwren> snap-l: ubuntu bug zero (or is it bug 1) suggests otherwise.
<tjagoda> I chuckle at the irony of OpenShift being closed source, however
<tjagoda> ClosedShift must not sell as well =P
<snap-l> jrwren: I should have clarified in the cloud space
<snap-l> since it is so new.
<rick_h> meh, all about who you trust, how the costs work out, etc
<jrwren> i disagree on cloud too.
<rick_h> heroku is a leader, but also most people that scale out of heroku pretty easily and end up needing/looking at other things
<jrwren> AWS ownz
<jrwren> rick_h: exactly.
<tjagoda> Read an article on AWS cloud infrastructure
<tjagoda> holy jesus
<tjagoda> thats a lot of servers
<jrwren> although maybe that means snap-l is right and there is a space that for a new player
<rick_h> yea, but even AWS requires special things. End of hte day apps have different pain points and if you scale out large enough you need to tweak our setup
<snap-l> jrwren: s/maybe// ;)
<rick_h> there's no silver bullet
<jrwren> if you scale big enough it can even make sense to get off AWS and run your own datacente.
<jrwren> no silver bullet
<rick_h> jrwren: yea, but I do have to say the articles coming out of netflix and sticking with AWS is interesting
<tjagoda> Almost 500,000 individual servers make up the EC2 cloud
<tjagoda> and just the EC2 cloud
<jrwren> www.cs.nott.ac.uk/~cah/G51ISS/Documents/NoSilverBullet.html
<tjagoda> That's terrifying
<rick_h> meh, I think you'd be surprised at how many servers there are out there.
<tjagoda> "454,400 Blade Servers, in a total of 7,100 racks"
<jrwren> rick_h: agreed, but I think maybe netflix just employs engineers that are taking NIH too far..
<jrwren> sometimes NIH is a GOOD attitude
<rick_h> jrwren: yea, it's just interesting to see/read
<rick_h> amazing how long you can work around/with a vendor to keep going
<jrwren> yup
<tjagoda> Did you ever see the CPU Utilization story from AWS?
<tjagoda> I found that interesting
<greg-g> so, jzb article, discuss
 * greg-g chuckles because he did see it mentioned in the scroll back, but he didn't read it all :)
<tjagoda> http://huanliu.wordpress.com/2012/02/17/host-server-cpu-utilization-in-amazon-ec2-cloud/
<tjagoda> You should scroll back
<tjagoda> we've already had jrwren argue over it
<jrwren> we did?
<tjagoda> comment*
<jrwren> i thought we agreed over it :p
<tjagoda> Its a habit
<greg-g> so, is jzb right, wrong, or in between?
<tjagoda> I'm used to saying argue and jrwren in the same sentance
<jrwren> i dunno if "that guy is an idiot" counts as.... nvm
<greg-g> hah
<greg-g> :)
<tjagoda> He defends his position very bitterly in the comments
<tjagoda> Estimates say google has around 1 million servers
<tjagoda> so amazon EC2 is worth .5 googles
<jrwren> and that is just EC2
<jrwren> that isn't counting S3
<tjagoda> Yeah, no S3 and etc
<jrwren> and all the other AWS offerings.
<jrwren> which are HUGE
<greg-g> Re my pain in getting U1 setup on Debian: Even Canonical's own numbers show they should fucking support Debian for Ubuntu One: http://blog.canonical.com/wp-content/uploads//2012/03/OSes-preference.png
<greg-g> good thing they have an iphone client (6th! place)
 * greg-g grumble fucking grumble
<tjagoda> u1 on win is a smoking pile of garbage
<greg-g> which makes total fucking sense in Canonical's point of view since Windows is the most widely used second operating system for Ubuntu users
<tjagoda> So they develop in reverse order?
<tjagoda> BRING ON THE BLACKBERRY CLIENT, BABY
<greg-g> sorry, I'm annoyed at this because Canonical is just U1 development wrong, period. No ifs ands or buts about it. Asheesh summarizes in a comment nicely: http://blog.grossmeier.net/2012/02/26/ubuntuone-debian/#comment-9398
<greg-g> tjagoda: :)
<greg-g> s/is just U1/is just doing U1/
<tjagoda> Although
<tjagoda> Jono has a good point
<tjagoda> They aren't doing it by volume, they're doing it by "willingness to pay"
<tjagoda> So its on the iphone because those suckers are used to shelling out tons of $$ for services
<tjagoda> and so forth
<tjagoda> Debian is obviously full of cheap bastards
<tjagoda> =P
<greg-g> and Windows users?
<tjagoda> So confused that they'll pay for anything
<greg-g> also, way to improve Ubuntu/Debian relations /me grumble
<tjagoda> Debian being so freedom focused
<greg-g> I'm huffing and puffing over here, I think my coworkers think there is something wrong with my lungs/nose
<tjagoda> They'd set the platform on fire before they shipped with u1
<greg-g> wrong, they'd ship it in a heart beat, the code on the desktop is all FLOSS
<tjagoda> Really?
<tjagoda> I thought parts of u1 were closed
<greg-g> yeah, just the server is proprietary
<tjagoda> ahh
<greg-g> so, the argument many make is "it's just like a web browser surfing cnn.com (or whatever)"
<tjagoda> That argument works for people that are Iceweasel levels of crazy?
<tjagoda> "Supreme Court expresses skepticism over constitutionality of health care mandate"
<tjagoda> Ohshi-
<tjagoda> PREPARE FOR A FIRST OF FIERY CONSERVATIVE JUSTICE, AMERICA!
<_stink_> hey, is there audio of the hearings available in full anywhere?
<tjagoda> Health Care 2.0 will just involve sending the sick to Canda.
<_stink_> i confess i haven't looked yet
<tjagoda> Canada*
<tjagoda> Dunno
<tjagoda> http://thehill.com/video/in-the-news/218455-audio-day-two-of-supreme-court-healthcare-argements
<tjagoda> ?
<tjagoda> I didn't hit play
<tjagoda> it could just be a recording or newsbite
<_stink_> http://www.supremecourt.gov/oral_arguments/argument_audio_detail.aspx?argument=11-398-Tuesday
<greg-g> people were waiting in line for today's hearing since last friday
<rick_h> greg-g: +1 on the U1 disaster bits
<_stink_> http://www.supremecourt.gov/oral_arguments/argument_audio_detail.aspx?argument=11-398-Monday
<_stink_> fwiw
<rick_h> though if you follow the job apps there's windows positions and mac positions out there for U1
<greg-g> rick_h: w00t. I got one Canonical employee to agree ;)
<greg-g> rick_h: oh! cool (kinda, I guess) :)
<tjagoda> The one who works in launchpad
<tjagoda> he can edit the blueprints
<rick_h> greg-g: yea, I feel bad I'm a non-user, but it's really a mess
<greg-g> clandestinely
<tjagoda> to give you right priority
<rick_h> heh, if you think U1 dev follows a blueprint you're confused :P
<greg-g> lol
<greg-g> and
<greg-g> :(
<tjagoda> I wanted to use U1 on Windows to sync between my Ubuntu laptop and Win7 desktop
<rick_h> we do have marketing/mgt type people as well as engineers
 * greg-g nods
<tjagoda> But the win client is a steaming pile of crap
<greg-g> tjagoda: I suggest you report a bug with that in the title
<greg-g> :)
<tjagoda> lol
<tjagoda> I mean
<tjagoda> ffs
<rick_h> I'm sure it'd get a bunch of positive comments :)
<tjagoda> it didn't even have error exceptions
<tjagoda> there were no timeouts when it was failing to login
<tjagoda> it just kept trying like some kind of mentally challenged lab mouse
<greg-g> haha, good visual
<rick_h> https://tbe.taleo.net/NA3/ats/careers/requisition.jsp?org=CANONICAL&cws=1&rid=389
<rick_h> and there are others for iOS mobile and such
<tjagoda> I applied for my third Canonical position today
<tjagoda> Technical Account Manager
<tjagoda> My previous attempts include Launchpad Support and Operational Sysadmin
<greg-g> Required skills and experience
<greg-g> String communication and cooperation skills
<greg-g> lolz
<tjagoda> omg
<_stink_> allow me to communicate how poorly i cooperate
<tjagoda> In a strong manner
<tjagoda> sorry
<tjagoda> a string manner*
<greg-g> _stink_: as long as you use strings to do it, you're hired
<_stink_> augh, i have an enum from which i will use random entries :(
<_stink_> ah well.
<greg-g> hah, see, I was thinking like soup cans and string
<_stink_> i suppose i should have gone with something more like string theory
<_stink_> i'm so far removed :P
<greg-g> _stink_: :(
<_stink_> yeah.
<tjagoda> Hey Rick_H
<tjagoda> Do you understand the TAM location posting?
<tjagoda> It says from home on the listing, but mentions houston in the detail
<rick_h> tjagoda: TAM?
<tjagoda> Technical Account Mana.
<rick_h> tjagoda: linky
<rick_h> I didn't look at it so not sure
<tjagoda> https://tbe.taleo.net/NA3/ats/careers/requisition.jsp?org=CANONICAL&cws=1&rid=428
<rick_h> tjagoda: not sure
<tjagoda> I operated under the "when in doubt, apply" method
<brousch> whoa. both of my bugs reported during our bug jam have been confirmed
<_stink_> o/
<snap-l> brousch: Now for the hard part: getting them fixed.
<brousch> i think they're both trivial
<snap-l> Just received a rhythmbox one that was triaged, but then marked as invalid because upstream managed to fix it a year ago.
<snap-l> I <3 SPAM: http://paste.mitechie.com/show/2aOvB6n5wKeuJgMx3GJd/
<greg-g> brousch: links?
<snap-l> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/vwwrHB1dqLFl68blvwLm/
<greg-g> wow, presidents of Nigera, USA, and England are involved with your money transfer? important money
<rick_h> man I hate rrd...what a pita
<snap-l> Queen of England, no less
<greg-g> oh right, not president
<snap-l> Not just the Prime Minister
<_stink_> i'm going to put a plaque in my cubicle saying i am the President of Englad.
<_stink_> England
<snap-l> _stink_: Maybe you can get my money wired to me from nigeria
<snap-l> I mean, Pres. Obama should be able to be persuaded
<_stink_> i'll give him a call
<snap-l> tx
<brousch> greg-g: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/945826
<brousch> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kde-workspace/+bug/945805
<snap-l> http://www.amazon.com/Songs-Crystal-Cave-Steven-Seagal/dp/B0009SQ520
<greg-g> brousch: wow, that first one is good
<brousch> yeah, strange. must be no one ran the livecd and updated
<greg-g> yeah
<greg-g> want to waste some time? http://browserquest.mozilla.org/
<brousch> not loading for me
<greg-g> stop using IE
<_stink_> there you go, you wasted the time trying to look at it
<brousch> greg-g: :P
<brousch> _stink_++
<_stink_> spins for me too after clicking Play
<_stink_> maybe getting /.ted or something
<brousch> i don't even get play
<brousch> i think greg-g is trolling us
<_stink_> yeah
<greg-g> serious?
<greg-g> https://hacks.mozilla.org/2012/03/browserquest/
<greg-g> are you using Fx 3.5?
<_stink_> HOW DARE YOU SIR
<_stink_> blaming the victim
<greg-g> _stink_: :)
<_stink_> trying again
<_stink_> ooo here we go
<_stink_> be still my loins
<snap-l> _stink_: Please don't set up these jokes
<_stink_> greg-g: what's your name on here?
<_stink_> snap-l: i give you an open platform on which to build
<snap-l> OSRidicule
<_stink_> well that was fun.
<jrwren> that is cool and all
<jrwren> but i actually find the chrome 3d game to be more impressive
<jrwren> Native Client is a sweet platform.
<greg-g> _stink_: Phlegethon, my old school gaming name :)
<greg-g> jrwren: link to that game?
<snap-l> greg-g: THAT WAS YOU?!?!?!?!
<snap-l> greg-g: WE HAVE NEVER GAMED BEFORE EVER.
<snap-l> greg-g: ;)
<jrwren> greg-g: http://chrome.supergiantgames.com/
<jrwren> Bastion is SWEET... not that I've played.
<jrwren> but it is built with Unity, which has Mono embedded which runs on Native Client
<greg-g> jrwren: "This application is not supported on this computer. Installation has been disabled."
<jrwren> you don't have Native Client?
<greg-g> no idea
<greg-g> Chromium 17.0.963.79
<jrwren> do you have Chrome?
<jrwren> where did you get the build?
<greg-g> Ubuntu's repos for Oneiric
<jrwren> greg-g: i was actually thinking about entanglement  http://entanglement.gopherwoodstudios.com/
<jrwren> greg-g: ~r125985-0ubuntu ? or other ?
<jrwren> whoa.
<greg-g> greg@x220:~$ apt-cache policy chromium-browser
<greg-g> chromium-browser: Installed: 17.0.963.79~r125985-0ubuntu0.11.10.1
<jrwren> yup.
<jrwren> i don't see anything here about native client
<jrwren> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/precise/chromium-browser/precise/files/head:/debian/
<jrwren> I've also no idea how to search http://www.chromium.org/Home to find out if it has nativeclient
<greg-g> btw, I beat the game
<greg-g> as in, I got the gold armor and sword :)
<snap-l> yay
<snap-l> Evening, and such
<greg-g> not even 4
<_Marcus> No, it's 6:47
<snap-l> greg-g: Here in God's timezone, it's 6:48
<greg-g> I run into that problem now so often. All these people on the east coast just say "I'm available at 9 or 1pm" I reply, assuming they know where CC is located with "Great! I'll call you at 9am Pacific"
<greg-g> THEY JUST IGNORE THAT WORD THEY DO NOT UNDERSTAND
<greg-g> and I get an email at 6:30am with "well, I guess 9am didn't work, how's 1?"
<snap-l> greg-g: Yeah, I've learned over time to add the timezone
<greg-g> I DID!
<greg-g> :)
<snap-l> YOu need to translate it to EDT> :)
<greg-g> bah, you center of the world people :)
<snap-l> heh
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-03-28
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> Anyone else having trouble with doing an update on a natty machine
<snap-l> seems it just sits there and hangs trying to find stuff
<snap-l> Ah, it appears it's Google that's having trouble.
<snap-l> Wonder why that is
<snap-l> http://shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920022251.do <- Thoughts?
<brousch> have you read all of your other books?
<rick_h> the book is on my wishlist as something to check out. 90 pages, who knows though
<rick_h> no reviews yet I've seen
<snap-l> brousch: No
<snap-l> brousch: Now go away. :)
<brousch> then i say don't buy it
<brousch> these are my thoughts
<snap-l> brousch: Thank you for being my Jiminy Cricket
<brousch> until you've read all of your previous purchased books, you are banned from buying any new ones
<snap-l> brousch: Now you're just being mean.
<brousch> discipline!
<rick_h> meh, that's crazy talk
<rick_h> interests wane and flow, you need to keep reading and allow yourself to not get locked down/stop reading because you don't feel like the one thing you've got left
<brousch> this doesn't look good http://paste.mitechie.com/show/588/
<rick_h> I guess if you're a xubuntu user that might look sucky
<rick_h> but if it's a real thing there's got to be more than one person behind it
<rick_h> another leader moves on, it happens
<snap-l> Yeah, I saw that
<brousch> unless that new leader is an a-hole
<jrwren> good morning
<jrwren> when did vmware player add support for creating new VM? that is totally sweet.
<brousch> years ago
<brousch> how are you using vmware player? that only runs on windows and linux
<jrwren> on windows.
<jrwren> i used it on windows last night.
<jrwren> i have a windows PC at home for playing Starcraft2
<brousch> rick_h: you see this? http://pypi.python.org/pypi/pyramid_appengine/
<jrwren> I've got to try pyramid
<jrwren> django is so tiny and simple, seems like a framework should do more for me ;)
<brousch> that's what all the django add-ons are for
<jrwren> yeah, I need to find which ones are good and worth using
<brousch> http://djangopackages.com/
<brousch> list and ratings
<jrwren> ty
<jrwren> brousch++
<rick_h> brousch: yea, saw that
<rick_h> meh, frameworks should be small/not do too much for you
<jrwren> fuk that.
<jrwren> i want a framework to do everything for me.
<jrwren> it should read my mind and know exactly how and what i want.
<jrwren> and when it can't, it should let me do it all and stay the fuck out of my way
<rick_h> yea, that's what gets you into trouble with in inflexibility
<rick_h> heh, but of course :)
<jrwren> no way, not me. i don't.
<jrwren> its all just fancy toString()... it should help me lots
<brousch> snap-l: http://blog.makezine.com/2012/03/27/oreillymake-microcontroller-ebooks-and-videos-50-off-through-march-30/
<snap-l> Yeah, I saw that
<jrwren> http://www.anchor.com.au/blog/2012/03/bugfixing-the-in-kernel-megaraid_sas-driver-from-crash-to-patch/  sweet
<rick_h> crap that like makes me realize I'm an idiot. I could never have gotten that crap figured out
<snap-l> rick_h: It's just knowing where to look
<snap-l> I think you could diagnose something like this if you had someone telling you what tools to use
<jrwren> you could.
<jrwren> it took them weeks working on it full time.
<jrwren> i knwo I could
<jrwren> i might have doubted myself in teh past, but after the past few months, no more.
<snap-l> Yeah, I think that's the biggest part: getting over the self-doubt
<snap-l> I mean, if it's between you getting a full night's sleep, or getting paged because the machine fell over, i think you'd move mountains.
<jrwren> haha, that too.
<snap-l> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8980735/how-can-i-verify-column-data-types-in-the-sqlalchemy-orm <- SQL Alchemy is awesome. That is all
<snap-l> Not sure I'm going to implement it, but it's nice to know it's there.
<jrwren> snap-l: interceptors are always nice :)
 * snap-l is about to build a time machine to eradicate Excel from the timeline
<rick_h> that would be a great use of said time machine
<snap-l> I'll need some funding
<snap-l> and a pass on the laws of physics
<snap-l> but otherwise, it's completely do-able.
<Milyardo> if not Excel, then Lotus? Seems just as bad IMO
<snap-l> Milyardo: I don't receive Lotus 123 sheets on a weekly basis
<brousch> snap-l: i do
<snap-l> brousch: Oh that sucks
<snap-l> Has Lotus 123 adopted ODF?
<brousch> maybe if you kill the first spreadsheet no others will be created
<brousch> hell no. this is lotus 1-2-3 for win3.1
<snap-l> Hm, I need to be careful, though
<snap-l> If I kill off Excel, then ODF may never be born
<snap-l> tricky
<brousch> maybe win95
<snap-l> brousch: What the hell? Are you dealing with lawyers?
 * snap-l has never seen a Lotus 123 sheet in the wild after 2003.
<brousch> no, i have one user with 2 decades invested in specialised lotus spreadsheets
<snap-l> brousch: You have my permission to use the time machine to alter his timeline
<jjesse> what????  20 years of lotus spreadsheets?
<jjesse> amazing
<snap-l> I mean, I can see using some newer Lotus bastardization of Open Office
<snap-l> but 1-2-3 is just... blech
<brousch> yeah, the only thing that can extract info from it is excel
<snap-l> and that can't be good either
<brousch> it even runs on win7
<snap-l> 123, or Excel's import of 123?
<brousch> Lotus 1-2-3 Release 5 for Windows
<brousch> i pulled the floppy disks out to get the version right. the rubberband around them disintigrated
<jrwren> ODF can DIAF
<jrwren> XLSX for life yo.
<Milyardo> XLSX can DAIF
<Milyardo> LaTeX for life yo.
<snap-l> jrwren: trollbait.
<jrwren> i do love LaTeX
<jrwren> snap-l: i'm keeping up with you :)
<snap-l> duly noted.
<jrwren> i do wish freeform spreadsheet wasn't as popular
<jrwren> and that more programmed sheets like Improv would have caught on.
<Milyardo> popular? Shouldn't be allowed.
<jrwren> i remember getting Improv within minutes of first using it. then traditional spreadsheets rottd my brain
<jrwren> now I can't figure out numbers ;(
<snap-l> Once visicalc hit the scene, I think we were all doomed.
<snap-l> and once people equated Excel with databases, that was the end of it.
<snap-l> "Look, it has rws and columns like you programming geeks want. Now leave me alone while I crunch my data"
<Milyardo> If not for spreadsheets, maybe we'd RDBMS's wouldn't have as prevelent as they are now
<brousch> snap-l: it is scary
<Milyardo> maybe we'd actually use object oriented ones instead
<snap-l> Milyardo: you're kidding yourself. :)
<brousch> zope is still alive
<Milyardo> Me:"You know LDAP is a database too". Colleague: "False. You can't use SQL on it."
<Milyardo>  /facepalm
<snap-l> Milyardo: Had they not created spreadsheets, we'd be buried in little one-off BASIC programs with DATA statements trying hard to perform SUM functions
<snap-l> Milyardo: Exactly.
<jrwren> CSV is a database too
<jrwren> spreadsheets might be databases too, depending on what is in them.
<greg-g> define "database"
<snap-l> the base of which data is launched
<jrwren> text book definition.
<jrwren> launched?
<greg-g> snap-l: thanks. So based on that, I think you'll all full of it
<jrwren> define launched in that context :)
<greg-g> :)
<jrwren> I'll go with Elmasri and Navathe's definition
<jrwren> i looked it up and here is the def.
<jrwren> Collection of related data
<jrwren> so we are not full of it.
<jrwren> we are pedants
<jrwren> if you mean relational database system, then say so
<snap-l> Define data, please
<snap-l> I have an hour to kill
<jrwren> its a great question.
<jrwren> i studied it very breifly
<jrwren> http://jmcsweeney.co.uk/computing/m150/differences.php
<jrwren> dictionary def for data is fine too
<krondor> man I feel like it's been ages since I've been on irc
<snap-l> It has been
<snap-l> CHC tonight, early edition.
<rick_h> woot!
<snap-l> Also, of note: October 31st is CHC early edition. :)
<snap-l> I think it'll be starting a little later
<krondor> wish I could, it's Emily's birthday today though.
<rick_h> happy birthday!
<snap-l> What could be better than hanging out with a bunch of guys at a coffeeshop for your birthday?
<krondor> hah, something tells me that selling point might not work as well on her as on me.
<krondor> I do need to go next week because I need to brainwash a few people to help me test a few juju things.
<Milyardo> How can XCode even be considered functional, what is this
<Milyardo> How more difficult can it be to include a static library from another project on the same workspace
<Milyardo> that's like the simplest possible thing an IDE can do
<jrwren> iOS dev or MacOSX dev ?
<jrwren> i know how to include a static lib, but I couldn't describe it to you.
<Milyardo> iOS as a target for this particular project
<greg-g> seriously, how do I get rid of this ugly black bar at the top of my gcalendar?
<rick_h> http://code.google.com/p/minimalist-google-calendar/
<greg-g> ok, for Fx not Chrome ;)
<rick_h> :)
<greg-g> also seriously, Fx nightly is awesome lately. Especially with the new pdf.js integration
<rick_h> meh, pdf reader built in has been nice in chrome for a while.
<brousch> greg-g: embrace the black bar. it is your friend
<rick_h> but yea, I do like the new firefox and looking forward to helping Blazeix get the extension going/tested so I can use it more
<greg-g> rick_h: doesn't that just use gdocs as the backend?
<rick_h> greg-g: no, it's got a native pdf reader in chrome
<greg-g> oh, I tohught it just overlayed the gdocs stuff. I like in-browser/native/not using other's servers to read simple pdfs better, so that's cool.
<greg-g> brousch: :P
<rick_h> yea, so I actually use chrome as my pdf reader on my system usually
<greg-g> huh
<rick_h> google-chrome xx.pdf
<rick_h> vs evince/xpdf
<snap-l> Blergh
<snap-l> evince is good for 99% of the PDFs om my machine
<snap-l> there's only a handful that it really can't handle
<greg-g> yeah, I don't mind evince. But for docs I want to be both digital-only and highlighted, I use Mendeley (I know I know, proprietary)
<rick_h> my issues with evince is the gnome requirements/hooks in teh backend
<rick_h> chrome print works better for me and it's already opened so faster
<snap-l> greg-g: You have vastly different needs for PDFs tham most of us
<snap-l> It was apparent when I read your eBook article that you're looking to replace journals / textbooks and not just tech books
<snap-l> Which, yeah, you're going to want something other than evince. ;)
<snap-l> rick_h: Bah. :)
<greg-g> snap-l: yeah, I want to mark the shit up of my text-based information conveyers :)
<greg-g> I do "close readings" or whatever the hip english students say nowadays
<snap-l> What the hell is that?
<greg-g> interacting with the text. marking it up, underlining, making notes, circling, etc etc
<snap-l> greg-g: So, doodling.
<rick_h> heh, and this is why he calls it 'close reading'
<rick_h> sounds much better than 'doodling'
<brousch> i thought i saw some apps like that for android
<brousch> you can read and mark-up a pdf, search and such
<jrwren> i <3 dead trees
<jrwren> what greg-g is really saying is that he is into scrapbooking
<brousch> the only good tree is a dead tree!
<jrwren> pasting doilies onto pages.
<greg-g> re: "so doodling" (sorry, Rowan/Carrie came in the room) no. instead of writing up notes in a separate document like "this quote on page whatever is good" or "I disagree with this point he makes here because..." I put it in the actual book so it is contextualized.
<greg-g> haha, re scrapbooking
<rick_h> ugh, I really want to get on the bike, but 30+mph wind gusts...trying to convince me not to go
<jrwren> rick_h: and its COLD ain't it?
<nullspace> whoose going to penguicon? and why?
<rick_h> jrwren: close to 60, not bad
<jrwren> oh, not bad at all
<rick_h> I'm going because I'm talking and because my wife is heading out of town with the boy nullspace
<rick_h> jrwren: but I never enjoy riding in the wind...but haven't been out due to my post-pycon flu and want to try out the clip in shoes
<nullspace> rick_h: I don't understand why your paying to talk about something... don't you usually get in free if your adding value to the concvention
<rick_h> nullspace: well it all depends. I've seen it both ways.
<rick_h> I'm paying to speak because I like to complain on the tech track so I can yell more about how it sucks if I'm in it :)
<nullspace> I tried the staff route to complain, that didn't work at all
<rick_h> well I figure if I don't try to help I can't whine, so now I reserve my whining privelages
<greg-g> All Whines Reserved
<rick_h> exactly!
<greg-g> :)
<rick_h> and snap-l can't fuss at me
<greg-g> I love that
<nullspace> I prefer a reserve wine
<greg-g> I might have to use that somewhere
<greg-g> hrmm, now to try to figure out why my living room outlets aren't working :/ (yes, already tried the breakers)
<rick_h> oops
<rick_h> one of them have a gfi outlet?
<nullspace> I can understand why the rest of the tracks would require the speaker to pay because it's a venue for them to hock their wares and books they wrote
<greg-g> yeah, after that I'm kind of stuck, they aren't those fancy outlet-with-breaker-in-them things
<rick_h> doh
<rick_h> yea, I've been caught by a stray outlet on the loop that had the break in there
<rick_h> spare bathroom on living room and the bathroom went taking the living room with it
<nullspace> I had somethign similar when the outlet behind the fridge was a gfi in a line of gfis, the gfi behind the fridge tripped, major pain in the ass
<greg-g> hrmmm
<greg-g> lemme go check other rooms
<nullspace> one gfi per line adn it shoudl be the first outlet in the line from the breaker
<nullspace> any more and it's not up to code
<jrwren> rick_h: i'm with you. wind SUCKS
<jrwren> well, tailwind is nice.
<jrwren> but you never get tailwind the whole ride.
<rick_h> yea, but I'll be doing a nice square with it
<nullspace> rick_h: I think what might change their mind is if they can't fill out the tech track because no one wants to pay to do what equates to work
<rick_h> nullspace: yea, I'll be plugging bookie and I've got ribbons to hand out to ask for invites and such
<rick_h> so I'll be doing some pub I guess, and it's not that $$
<rick_h> and if I suck, then I don't feel bad :P
<nullspace> ha
<snap-l> nullspace: I've paid to go because I like Penguicon, and I want it to continue.
<snap-l> And yes, I'm speaking
<snap-l> Doing at least three events at Penguicon, and not worrying about asking for the reduced rate.
<nullspace> I like the promise of penguicon, btu the inner circle party of the staff and their draconian methods have got to go
<jrwren> its a volonteer conference, yow ill get out of it what you pu tinto it.
<rick_h> bingo
<jrwren> its not like people are making $$$ running the conference. if they were, then i would have a different attitude.
<greg-g> well crap, can't find anything
<snap-l> nullspace: I don't know the particulars of the conference insies, nor do I care to
<rick_h> greg-g: hmm, then might be in for some fun
<snap-l> Whatever beef you have with them is between you and them.
<nullspace> snap-l: you got a taste of it one year, completely unorganized
<snap-l> Yes, and I still return
<snap-l> because frankly it's not worth holding a grudge
<snap-l> and the conference itself is more important to me for what I get out of it
<krondor> it's had good years and bad years for sure.
<nullspace> I don't seem to learn much except one-on-one with my peers
<nullspace> you guys are what make it awesome
<rick_h> well come to my talk and I'll try to learn you some JS :)
<nullspace> hey now
<jrwren> hallway talks rule :)
<krondor> I still haven't registered a talk this year, but I did buy my pass.
<nullspace> that's uncalled for
<rick_h> I've got to start building my audience early
<krondor> Last year I got the reduced rate w/ 3 talks but that was too much I think.
<snap-l> And we have the release party in a separate room, which should be awesome
<snap-l> pro-rated beer
<rick_h> what? I'm just saying that you can learn outside of one-one by attending my talk. I didn't get into anything else.
<rick_h> snap-l: oh that's cool. the whole release party in the bar thing hasn't been the best the last two years
<nullspace> rick_h: count me in
<nullspace> we can talk carpentry if we run of things to talk about
<nullspace> I think I want to give a tal or two, need to hash it out a bit more, when does the CFP end
<jrwren> i think it is the weekend of my daughters bday.
<jrwren> or my dads.
<jrwren> or something :(
<krondor> hrmm are there any other tech centric cons in the MI area other than grcon (or notacon I guess)?
<rick_h> jrwren: pcon is?
<snap-l> nullspace: They're working on the schedule now, so the sooner the better.
<jrwren> krondor: TONS
<rick_h> well there was detroit dev days last year, and the detroit mobile dev days coming up
<jrwren> what rick_h said
<rick_h> most of the big things are in OH
<jrwren> in the .NET world there are lots of days of .net
<rick_h> but yea, there's a bunch of things around, you just have to watch for them
<brousch> krondor: grrcon is supposedly a super-awesome security conference
<nullspace> krondor: bsides detroit
<krondor> ooh I'm adding all these :)  brousch: Yeah I heard it was great I plan to  go this year.
<brousch> i'm on the fence
<brousch> always am when it costs me money ;)
<krondor> I heard a bunch of vendors walked out because they were mad it was all college kids and not sales leads.  That makes it even better IMO
<nullspace> still working on a venue for bsides
<rick_h> pyohio is my next big thing, well I guess penguicon, but hardly counting as my 'big' event
<krondor> college kids == future sales leads (short sighted)
<nullspace> derbycon is my big thing, don't think I could get a talk accepted to taht
<nullspace> that
<krondor> derbycon sounded nice too, but if I'm making a trek might as well try 20th anniversary of defcon.
<brousch> nullspace: is that centered around hats or crashing junk cars?
<brousch> krondor: grrcon videos are online, so you can make up your own mind http://www.youtube.com/user/GrrCON
<krondor> I think this year I might  try to do a room party at pcon for rooting.  Last year's panel on it was awkward.
<nullspace> brousch: it's an infosec con organized by well know infosec leaders
<nullspace> mitnick was there last year and gave an awesome talk with dave kenndy ( CTO of Diebold)
<brousch> nullspace: mitnick is speaking at grrcon this year
<rick_h> love this article, bring your thoughts to CHC while I scream "AMEN!" http://www.toolness.com/wp/2012/03/coffee-machines-and-community/
<snap-l> Just get a Keurig. :)
<rick_h> bah!
<nullspace> snap-l: I'm curious about those, what model and what's your experience?
<snap-l> nullspace: At work they have this industrial-grade machine
<snap-l> Has a LCD display and everything. Hooks to the water line
<snap-l> Certain coffee brands are much better than others
<snap-l> I like the Green Mountain Dark Magic
<nullspace> our issue at work is that it connects to the water line, wixom's water sucks
<snap-l> nullspace: You might want to get a water filter
<snap-l> or a softener or use a brita pitcher
<snap-l> I mean, if your water is crap, you're going to get crap coffee
<snap-l> But, in any event, I'm pretty pleased with it
<snap-l> But I think it's a combo of decent coffee and a decent machine
<rick_h> ugh, never was happy with the flavor, and seems wasteful, and completely misses the point of the article :P
<snap-l> I wouldn't replace my home mill & brew with it
<snap-l> rick_h: I'm kiding. :)
<nullspace> snap-l: thus some colleges and myself bring in water, our own coffee and use a electric kettle and french press. the results are excellent
<snap-l> and yes, it is wasteful
<snap-l> But, compared with the coffee of indeterminate origin in the kitchen, or the rocket fuel that gets brewed behind me, I'll settle for it.
<snap-l> I like coffee with a little bite, not coffee that latches onto your tongue and won't let go
<krondor> snap-l:  yeah, I made fun of Emily when she got ours, but honestly the Keurig is pretty nice.
<snap-l> They literally use espresso machines to make a cup of coffee
<snap-l> It'll never be the best cup of joe, but it's a good, consistent cuppa joe.
<nullspace> mmmm black-eye, my fav
<brousch> careful with that stuff. i used to drink it, then i started getting angina from caffeine. now i'm decaf
<snap-l> brousch: Yeah, I know. I drink way too much of that stuff at work
<brousch> was drinking a super biggby redeye every morning. 24oz of coffee + 3 shots of espresso
<snap-l> brousch: OK, that's asking for trouble
<nullspace> I suppose if my esspresso machien broken down my instinct would be to take the thing apart and fix it, while I'm there I'll likely make design changes
<snap-l> nullspace: because there's nothing like creating an espresso-grenade.
<nullspace> brousch: I drink at most three cups of coffee, unless it's crappy watery coffee, then there is no telling
<brousch> now i drink a whole pot every day, but it's decaf
<brousch> greg-g: i think this was the pdf reading/markup app i looked at before http://goo.gl/rR1rT
<brousch> here's another https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.qiqqa.android.qiqqa
<greg-g> brousch: cool. thanks
<brousch> snap-l: have you heard of ccmixter?
<snap-l> I have
<snap-l> haven't quite found a place for it yet, though
<snap-l> Though they've gotten bigger since I last looked. :)
<brousch> if you'd like your brain broken https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLrnkK2YEcE
<brousch> snap-l: i always end up with months worth of music from your instrumentalcasts
<snap-l> That's awesome.
<brousch> except then i become many episodes behind
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-03-29
<widox> http://parcellite.sourceforge.net/
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vU0pYPF0Yzc
<rick_h> morning
<snap-l> Good morning
<brousch> snap-l: no it's not. earl scruggs is dead
<mydogsnameisrudy> earl scuggs died?   ;(
<brousch> he did
<mydogsnameisrudy> first thing i ever played was 5string banjo
<mydogsnameisrudy> bah
<brousch> http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/culture/2012/01/steve-martin-earl-scruggs.html
<snap-l> Oh man, that's a shame
<mydogsnameisrudy> well another great went to meet the maker
<snap-l> We all get there in good time
<jrwren> good morning
<jrwren> gah.
<jrwren> what a shitty way to ruin the day.
<snap-l> I didn't realize we had so many bluegrass fans. :)
<rick_h> me either, though I think you get automatic cool points if steve martin is writing your article about your death
<brousch> i like fast bluegrass with no vocals
<mydogsnameisrudy> steve martin plays  very well
<snap-l> I love the music, but the vocals make me want to punch babies
<snap-l> It's like everything I hate about country music rolled into concentrated form
<snap-l> The twaaaaaaaauuuuuunnnnnng
<jrwren> snap-l: I still miss Larry McDaniel on WDET
<jrwren> there are non twang vocals to be found.
<snap-l> bipping bat back bork skiddy diddly dig dat spoonerflat.
<jrwren> i skip the twang
<snap-l> Yeah, I think I caught that show
<mydogsnameisrudy> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW-w0KgE-8s
<jrwren> snap-l: it was on for at least 20 yrs.
<snap-l> I'd make it through one song thinking "Yeah, I can do this", and then the next song would show up, and I couldn't flip it fast enough
<snap-l> jrwren: When did they go off the air?
<snap-l> s/they/he/
<snap-l> I know they moved Ed Love about a year ago, which still pisses me off
<snap-l> maybe more than that, now that I think about it
<jrwren> snap-l: i stopped listening to WDET after that new GM reorg kerfuffle
<snap-l> Yeah, OK
<snap-l> WHen they became WUOM East.
<jrwren> ha!, yup.
<jrwren> WFUM south
<jrwren> WGTE north
<snap-l> I wonder if part of it was the ASCAP / BMI licensing
<snap-l> they were extremely music heavy for a NPR affiliate.
<jrwren> could be.
<jrwren> and internet streaming makes that even more difficult
<snap-l> Definitely
<jrwren> they probably wanted to stream online and ASCAP said no
<snap-l> I read the hoops that JWZ goes through for his DNA LOunge streams, and weep.
<jrwren> that happened to WXOU when I setup their online streaming :)
<snap-l> jrwren: Oh no doubt. It's why WTHS doesn't stream outside of Hope's campus
<jrwren> i'm not surprised.
<jrwren> ya know what it is?
<snap-l> WXOU?
<snap-l> Yeah, it's Oakland University's student station
<jrwren> no, the limitations.
<jrwren> its bullshit, that is waht it is.
<snap-l> Oh, definitely
<snap-l> It's the control of music and expression
<snap-l> It's part of the reason I do a CC show.
<snap-l> a very large part.
<snap-l> It's why I subscribe to Magnatune
<snap-l> It's why I think this is the bee's knees: http://moodmixes.com/
<greg-g> so, you know that outlet issue yesterday, magically fixed itself over the night. NO EFFING CLUE
<snap-l> greg-g: You don't happen to have ground-fault outlets that recently tripped, do you?
<rick_h> heh, we sent him searching the house for those yesterday
<rick_h> greg-g: tell your little one to quick stabbing the outlets and grounding them out to other things
<snap-l> Yeah, we had one in our apartment kitchen that would cut the entire kitchen circuit off (save for the high-power appliances)
<snap-l> greg-g: Is this a house or apartment (shared with others?)
<greg-g> snap-l: a house
<snap-l> And about how old is the wiring?
<greg-g> and yeah, yesterday I checked every single one of thost GFI outlets
<waldo323_> mouse?
<greg-g> though, to be honest, I didn't check the garage
<snap-l> Garage _should_ be on a separate circuit
<greg-g> waldo323_: unlikely given the recent remodel, but, as good a guess as any right now :)
<greg-g> snap-l: right, but, after having the AT&T tech come in and say "wow, whoever did you wiring no only didn't know what they were doing, but didn't have the right tools" I'm not in the mood to trust much
<greg-g> s/no only/not only/
<snap-l> Ah, lovely.
<greg-g> yeah
<snap-l> Yeah, at least where we're living we can attribute it to about 50 years of learning
<greg-g> hah, nice
<snap-l> ie: no ground anywhere but the bathroom
<greg-g> "life long learning"
<snap-l> Well, it's an older house.
<snap-l> so not everything is up to current codes.
<greg-g> this one is too, but it should be current code-wise now given the remodel. I think it is 1940, maybe 30s
<snap-l> Quick test: Turn on a lamp on each of the rooms, and flip the breakers
<snap-l> If one side of your house goes out with one breaker flip, you know what you're dealing with. :)
<snap-l> also check the switches. They should be more than just black / white wiring if they're more recent.
<snap-l> Found that one out the hard way when I tried putting in some X10 wall switches
<greg-g> yeah, I might do some more thorough testing tomorrow when I work from home again (today I'm at the office)
<greg-g> btw, where I live: http://stmaryspark.blogspot.com/
<greg-g> my next door neighbor: http://50justin.com/ (I'm at 60 Justin, you can see a sliver of our place in those photos)
<snap-l> Someone actually made a website for their house?
<snap-l> That's insane
<_Marcus> I should make a website for my house
<_Marcus> And include a blog
<ColonelPanic001> https://twitter.com/#!/foxydenardis
<ColonelPanic001> almost as bad
<_Marcus> "Today it rained, and the bricks are wet"
<snap-l> _Marcus: You could have the house tweet too
<ColonelPanic001> "Bird crapped on my roof again. So it goes"
<_Marcus> #ihatebirds
<ColonelPanic001> haha
<snap-l> "Stupid occupants are out mowing the lawn again. Would it kill them to go for straight lines?"
<snap-l> "I thought it was Miller Time after you mowed the lawn, but for this idiot, it must be before, during, and after"
<ColonelPanic001> heh
<snap-l> "I'd drop a piece of siding on his head if a) I could ensure it would kill him, and b) if it wouldn't take three weeks for him to notice"
<snap-l> "It's not a roof leak, it's me trying to take a piss on your head"
<greg-g> so, I was really considering getting 60justin.org so I could set up a house wiki and mailing list
<greg-g> since it is a quasi-coop
<greg-g> btw, this photo is really cool http://50justin.com/images/old_house_boat_lrg.jpg
<greg-g> oh, and I met the guy who owns 50 justin, he's just remodeling right now. He lives over in the East Bay. Nice guy.
<brousch> greg-g: we had intermittent power problems for years. it turns out the GFI in the bathroom was wired in backwards. i fixed that and no problems since
<greg-g> hmmmm
<greg-g> effing electricity
<greg-g> ;)
<waldo323_> brousch, is there a tool that would help check for that? or do you just need to look at the wires to figure that out?
<_stink_> ColonelPanic001's a tool
<rick_h> waldo323_: yea, there's a nice tool you can get that plugs into an outlet and checks the wiring
<rick_h> I use it all the time
<brousch> i have no idea
 * waldo323_ 's house needs an update or several
<rick_h> basically three prongs with a box and lights onthe back
<waldo323_> oh good
<rick_h> and the lights go off with issues
<brousch> i was under the impression the outlet wouldn't work if it was wired in wrong, but i guess i was mistaken
<snap-l> rick_h: Yeah, It's called a UPS. :)
<waldo323_> depends on how wrong maybe?
<rick_h> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Receptacle_tester
 * snap-l is only half-joking. UPSes usually have some way to tell you that the wiring is funky.
<brousch> i don't know why, but i saw that as "testicle tester"
<rick_h> no, say it's not grouneded right, it'll still work, but possible to short
<snap-l> brousch: Wishful thinking?
<ColonelPanic001> :(
<rick_h> and outlets can be backwards, they'll work, but be backwards
<waldo323_> rick_h, thanks
<snap-l> Yeah, reversed polarity
<ColonelPanic001> reversing polarity is a good skill to have in case you ever join Starfleet
<rick_h> waldo323_: np, it's a cheap $8 little plug thing, very handy when you replace/update outlets...say you've got to install baby proof outlets all over your house
<snap-l> but because it's AC, it'll still work for most devices.
<greg-g> oh, $8? I might just have to amazon one :)
<rick_h> http://www.amazon.com/50542-Receptacle-Tester-Improper-Indicator/dp/B002LZTKIA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1333042038&sr=8-1
<rick_h> $7.45 sorry... assuming you're all prime members :)
<snap-l> Ordered one
<waldo323_> Note also that simple three light testers cannot detect two potentially serious house wiring errors: (1) neutral and ground reversed at the receptacle. (2) a "bootleg" ground, where the neutral and ground pins have been connected together at the receptacle. (Done by someone to attempt to fool the three light tester, typically if 3-prong outlets have been retrofitted to an old house with only two physical wires in the conduit.)
<rick_h> damn, where's my referral code when I need it?!
<snap-l> I really need to get off the Claritin-D. I'm extremely suggestible.
<waldo323_> lol
<waldo323_> was just going to ask about that
<waldo323_> the referral code that is
<greg-g> man, so, does anyone else get scared when pluggin in testing tools into outlets? I mean, I know they're made to handle most situations, but, electricity kills!
<rick_h> greg-g: no it doesn't
<snap-l> greg-g: 110 will not kill you
<_stink_> i just use my tongue and two screwdrivers
<greg-g> haha
<rick_h> I've shocked the crap out of myself...never more than a stutter for a day/two
<greg-g> lol
<_stink_> hehe
<snap-l> take it from someone who touched the prongs on the vacuum cleaner
<greg-g> snap-l: yikes!
<rick_h> my wife gets like that
<snap-l> and have grounded more power supplies than I care to admit.
<rick_h> when I wired the garage with the subpanel she had to leave the ohuse she was going to have a heart attack
<snap-l> greg-g: As long as the power doesn't go over the chest area, you're likely fine
<greg-g> rick_h: wow
<greg-g> snap-l: yeah
<brousch> i used to be a Windows user, then i touched the wires in a light fixture and now i use linux. superpowers
<snap-l> Trust me: Electricity has better things to ground it than you.
<rick_h> but I have done stupid things like swap out light mounts without killing power and given myself a couple of good jolts
<greg-g> I mean, I guess it is stuff that I don't know what was going on behind the wall (see previous comment about the wiring job of our house). If I'm working on something and I can trace it back to the power panel, then I'll probably feel ok. Hell I was going to rewire the basement outlets at my old rental.
<rick_h> nothing replaces having a nicely labeled breaker box
<snap-l> rick_h: ++
<waldo323_> rick_h ++
<rick_h> well worth the day screaming across the house to get that done
<_stink_> yeah, we did that after buying our new house.  i could not believe it wasn't done
<waldo323_> or running up and down the stairs a dozen times
<greg-g> yeah, that is one thing that was done well here, the breaker box is labelled well. I just don't believe that there isn't some crossing of the wirese somewhere :)
<greg-g> I ended up ordering this one for $2 more, it does GFI testing as well: http://www.amazon.com/50957-Tester-Installation-Operation-110-125V/dp/B002LZTKIU/ref=pd_bxgy_hi_img_b
<rick_h> greg-g: yea, home ownership...when you realize that people will do anything to make it work
<rick_h> greg-g: ah, that one looks like mine more
<greg-g> w00t I'm like rick_h
<rick_h> you too can run through every outlet in your house praying this one lights up "all clear" so you don't have to break it open!
<greg-g> weee
<brousch> do not wee on the outlet
<greg-g> then why is there an outlet next to the toilet?
<greg-g> seriously, there are outlets next to every toilet. Is it for those fancy heated seats?
<brousch> i guess
<_stink_> duh, it's if your phone runs low on battery while you are crapping
<brousch> fancy japanese motorized toilet
<ColonelPanic001> when I get a house, I figured on running network cable to nearly every room
<ColonelPanic001> I, for a few minutes, debated whether or not that would include the bathroom(s)
<rick_h> I did, I figured one day I'd have network music gear in there
<rick_h> well, not hte current houes, but a previous house
<greg-g> rick_h: YES!
<brousch> are you really in the bathroom for so long you need a stereo system in there?
<greg-g> pooping+shaving+showering can take a while
<_stink_> you don't shave.
<greg-g> true.
<ColonelPanic001> my debate resolved with "No Mike, you're being stupid again"
<rick_h> hey, on trimming days when I've got to do the full head shave, face shave, shower, and such I listen to an audio book :)
<ColonelPanic001> clearly worth the time, effort, money
<rick_h> I have the external speaker hooked up to the phone
 * brousch suppresses sexist jokes
<ColonelPanic001> oh. Well, that's what I was going to suggest
<greg-g> rick_h: how long does that take you, seriously?
<rick_h> greg-g: 20-25min?
<rick_h> for all three
<_stink_> wow
<rick_h> do that a couple times a week and I've got an hour of book reading in
<_stink_> pretty fast
<ColonelPanic001> I just don't shave
<ColonelPanic001> problem solved
<_stink_> +1
<rick_h> yea, I mean it's not like I'm sitting in a mirror working around my fancy hair do
<rick_h> it's a pretty all or nothing kind of hit/run job
<ColonelPanic001> as an additional bonus, I have a scruffy homeless-guy-looking beard
<greg-g> you need to start shaving FLOSS-related logos into your hair
<ColonelPanic001> YES
 * snap-l suppresses the permanent jokes for rick_h
<greg-g> like the musicbrainz guy
<rick_h> yea, see that requires effort
<ColonelPanic001> greg-g++
<ColonelPanic001> shave a gnu into your head
<brousch> i want to see the Pyramid logo on rick_h's head at pyohio
<ColonelPanic001> or a line drawing of rms
<greg-g> oh man oh man oh man, so good
<ColonelPanic001> do a drawing of ESR for Pengicon, see if he notices
<snap-l> "I'm your worst nightmare"
<ColonelPanic001> if he does notice and mention it to you, squeal like a 13 year old girl at the Twilight premere and run off
 * snap-l would love to hear Craig Mundy's version of that encounter.
<snap-l> http://jordanmechner.com/blog/2012/03/prince-of-persia-source-code-found/
<brousch> convert php to web2py. this is awesome http://www.web2py.com/php
<greg-g> hmmm, do I upgrade now?
<rick_h> nope
<greg-g> ok.
<snap-l> greg-g: BTW: can I bug you later to review some copy that I'll be using to introduce the CC license to folks who might not otherwise know what it is?
<greg-g> snap-l: of course.
<greg-g> email is best, greg@grossmeier.net
<snap-l> Sweet. Thank you.
<snap-l> Haven't written it yet, but will later on
 * greg-g nods
<greg-g> good god man, snap-l , that Moth story.
<snap-l> greg-g: Yeah, that tore me to pieces
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-03-30
<jrwren> why not?
 * jrwren thinks about upgrading
<rick_h> jrwren: this is why I said no at first: http://benjaminkerensa.com/2012/03/29/ubuntu-12-04-beta-2-not-released
<rick_h> I wasn't sure what was up so said not to upgrade
<snap-l> But now that it's up, don't upgrade.
<snap-l> stay stagnant. :)
<rick_h> morning and tgif
<snap-l> Feels like Saturday.
<_stink_> morning
<brousch> FRIDAY
<rick_h> yay
<brousch> hm http://liliputing.com/2012/03/vivaldi-tablet-with-kde-plasma-active-dissected.html
<brousch> kind of exciting, but not much better specs than my nook color
<brousch> son of a bitch
<brousch> has anyone seen these new buncled PDFs?
<brousch> bundled
<rick_h> nope
<brousch> it's a pdf that contain multiple pdfs
<rick_h> interesting
<brousch> no, it is annoying
<brousch> i don't think any of the linux pdf readers can handle it, except adobe's
<rick_h> try chrome? probably not but curious
<brousch> nope
<brousch> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/pdfuuuuuuuuuuuuuu.png
<brousch> that's the same thing i get with other readers
<Milyardo> Bundled PDFs? A they just wrapped in a zip container or something?
<rick_h> lol
<brousch> http://help.adobe.com/en_US/Reader/8.0/help.html?content=WSE034CA46-D08F-4fff-AA3C-FF04510DAEF0.html
<brousch> just when i get all these messed up pdfs handled correctly, they throw a new thing like this at me
<brousch> I NEED PDF SERENTIY NOW
<Milyardo> TIL PDFs are now a archival utility
<brousch> Milyardo: eh?
<brousch> ok, it looks like pdftk can handle these with `pdftk file.pdf unpack_file`
<brousch> i had recently removed pdftk because it didn't handle other types of pdf correctly.
<brousch> now i get to figure out how to detect if a pdf is a collection and then add yet another step to the cleanup process
<snap-l> brousch: Can't you detect these, and then send a nice note to whomever sent then saying, very politely "KNOCK THAT SHIT OFF"?
<brousch> i can do that in exactly the same way you can do away with excel
<snap-l> Yeah, but those aren't PDFs.
<snap-l> They bundles
<brousch> they have a .pdf extension
<snap-l> brousch: Extensions aren't magic. :)
<brousch> they are created via the same process as regular pdfs
<snap-l> Can you load them on a nook?
<brousch> i need to be able to handle them in PdfSerenityNow
<brousch> snap-l: probably through the adobe reader
<snap-l> Try it
<brousch> works fine
<brousch> through the adobe reader on nook
<snap-l> Really? That's surprising
<snap-l> Does the built-in reader support it too?
<brousch> it's an adobe thing
<brousch> kindle reader barfs
<snap-l> yeah, I'd imagine
<snap-l> The mobile readers tend to lag pretty heavily behind what acrobat can generate
<brousch> apparently it's been available for a few years
<snap-l> at least that's my experience.
<snap-l> though I wonder how much of that is Adobe's fault, and how much of it is OSS PDF libraries.
<brousch> i use pypdf to count the number of pages in a pdf. i think i'll get with the pypdf author and see if we can add collection detection
<smoser> snap-l, you have one of these: http://moofi.woot.com/moofi/pedantic
<smoser> right?
<smoser> that you bought from jcastro i think
<snap-l> Yah, the x120e
<smoser> happy with it?
<smoser> how is battery life
<snap-l> Battery life is amazing
<snap-l> makes it through a CHC without a problem
<snap-l> I like it
<snap-l> Interesting that they show it with the low battery life LED showing. :)
<smoser> its kinda tempting
<smoser> although maybe i'll just buy http://annarbor.craigslist.org/sys/2890411302.html
<rick_h> that is tempting, especially as a wife machine
<snap-l> smoser: Well, you're giving up more disk and 4GB of RAM
<snap-l> and new IBM smell
<snap-l> er, Thinkpad
<smoser> ewll if the memory is 1 stick, then 2GB still cheap to buy.
<snap-l> I don't think mine as BT, though, so that is kinda nice.
<snap-l> pretty top-o-the-line
<rick_h> lol http://superuser.com/questions/231273/what-are-the-windows-a-and-b-drives-used-for
<rick_h> nothing like feeling a bit old
<rick_h> between that and seeing the liquor age sign at 1990 at the gas station yesterday...feeling old
<brousch> rick_h: i think i found 2 gray hairs in my beard yesterday
<rick_h> I'm skipping grey and going straight to white
<brousch> my wife said they were blond, but i think she's just being nice
<rick_h> lol
<snap-l> you can all shut the old talk now
<snap-l> ;)
<brousch> snap-l: getting a hoverround this year?
<snap-l> Getting a computer-vision-powered turret to keep the damn kids off my lawn
<brousch> FML. apparently i'm dealing with the friendly kind of pdf package http://acrobatusers.com/tutorials/where_did_pdf_packages_go
<snap-l> http://cdn-www.cracked.com/articleimages/ob/flowchart.png
<snap-l> brousch: Congratulations.
 * ColonelPanic001 brags that his scruffy beard remains reddish blond with no grey.
<ColonelPanic001> when I get old and it goes white, I'm going to leave my hair and beard untrimmed and look like Gandalf.
<snap-l> ColonelPanic001: JoDee already told me when I go bald, I can have a skullet
<ColonelPanic001> \m/
<snap-l> Totally going the Devin Townsend route.
<ColonelPanic001> it's only proper, for the good of OMC
<snap-l> heh
<brousch> screw it, i'm going the lazy route
<nullspace> wooo thundersnow!
<nullspace> fuck you too march
<rick_h> yea, kind of crazy out there
<rick_h> geeze, talk about a few items http://www.googlestore.com/shop.axd/Home
<snap-l> I'm totally getting the Google cape
<snap-l> http://www.googlestore.com/Wearables/Android+Restroom+Sign+T-Shirt.axd ???
<greg-g> hilarious, i've been sitting here at the coffee shop for about 15 minutes with my heapphones on but not plugged into my laptop
<greg-g> good think I wasn't playing anything :)
<greg-g> (especially OMC)
<greg-g> s/think/thing/ # come on coffee, KICK IN!
<snap-l> hah
<greg-g> i think headphones are part for music and part just mental
<snap-l> Yeah, I've been guilty of wearing headphones with nothing on
<snap-l> mostly because it's an easy DND sign
<greg-g> indeed
<greg-g> too bad my coworker doesn't get the hint
<snap-l> Just get some GTFO headphones
<snap-l> I think Bose makes e'm
<greg-g> haha, yeah, I could bring my Seinheisens (I suck at spelling)
<greg-g> but those are open air so they're kind of loud for other people
<snap-l> Which is why you need to play some slayet
<snap-l> Slayet
<snap-l> Oh FFS
<snap-l> SLAYER
<snap-l> because as we all know, hippies can't stand Slayer. :)
<snap-l> Which either means greg-g isn't a true hippie, or South Park lied to us
<greg-g> A) not a huge fan of slayer, B) South Park still lied
<snap-l> Damnit
<greg-g> sorry to be the bearer of bad news
<smoser> man...
<smoser> i really want that x120e
<smoser> :)
<brousch> bah. 8GB or go home
<smoser> its a netbook!
<smoser> :)
<brousch> that changes nothing
<smoser> the price is what changes things.
<jrwren> i don't run VM and i have an SSD. I've found 4G to be plenty and this is AFTER 2.5yrs of using an 8GB notebook with a slow spinning drive.
<jrwren> YMMV
<rick_h> yea, I spend most of my day inside of 2gb, but do like the 8gb when I need it
<rick_h> rare though it is
<jrwren> it helps that all browsers have gotten MUCH better at memory usage. No more 1GB+ FF processes
<snap-l> Yeah
<jrwren> i'm sure they day will come when I say "need more ram" but its not here yet.
<rick_h> heh, actually that's the killer for me
<snap-l> although I have 4GB on this machine
<jrwren> the fast SSD eliminates the bufcache argument IME
<rick_h> if I runboth FF and Chrome 80% of my ram usage is those two beasts
<jrwren> rick_h: both use MUCH less ram if you disable flash plugin
<jrwren> flash is insanely memory hog
<snap-l> That's what swap is for: to let you know in a tangible way that you need more memory. :)
<brousch> i should try that
<snap-l> especially when it starts thrashing
<rick_h> jrwren: yea, but I hit flash stuff so no disabling
<jrwren> I'd keep multiple versions around if possible.
<snap-l> I can't wait for Flash to die a horrible death
<jrwren> e.g. chrome beta along side chrome dev
<jrwren> one with flash, another without
<jrwren> I do that with chrome stable.
<jrwren> I only launch it when I need flash
<jrwren> and I immediately close the browser
<jrwren> and kill process.
<jrwren> flash is THAT BAD
<jrwren> its a battery killer too
<jrwren> and nearly every page on the internet uses it because it gets script injected by those cursed like buttons
<rick_h> well I do run flashblock so that it's not auto started
<rick_h> but I do tend to hit something with flash I run nearly daily
<rick_h> but yea, end of hte day I use more ram but have it to spare
<brousch> i don't
<brousch> which is why i say, 8GB or go home
<greg-g> you ram elitist
<brousch> i accept your moniker
<smoser> snap-l, i blame you for loss of $335 from my bank account
<smoser> (just bought)
<greg-g> hah
<jrwren> brousch: what is using your ram?
<brousch> chrome
<jrwren> chrome uses 8G of ram?
<brousch> i only have 4
<brousch> it has gotten up to 2.5GB
<jrwren> wow. wtf are you doing to it?
<brousch> i go through my feeds and open pages in tabs, then go back and read the pages
<brousch> so sometimes i have 20 tabs open
<brousch> i have started bookmarking videos into a to-watch queue. that seems to help
<brousch> i always have: gmail, gcal, greader, g+, hootsuite open
<brousch> that runs about 1GB
<snap-l> smoser: I hope it's everything those $335 would hope it to be.
<jrwren> so glad I don't use those ;)
<jrwren> i use greader occasionally
<jrwren> what is hootsuite ?
<snap-l> twitter
<jrwren> lol
<brousch> multiple twitter accounts
<brousch> i command accounts for me, grpug, grwebdev, barcampgr, grmobiledev, congawm
<greg-g> this picture is awesome http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2012/03/denmarks-50-percent-wind-commitment-is-only-the-beginning.ars
<rick_h> yea, +1 on that
<krondor> anyone have any recommendations for status.net clients for win/linux/mac?
<greg-g> krondor: Firefox
<krondor> work is suddenly re-interested in our status.net box and it seems like the clients all suck now.
<greg-g> Firefox app-tab, to be exact
<snap-l> I use Gwibber, but a much older version
<krondor> greg-g:  well obviously :)  then I have to convince coworkers they should use firefox
<greg-g> ok, Chromium :)
<krondor> wait I thought firefox was killing app-tab?  Or am I thinking of sidetabs?
<_Marcus> I would of convinced them already into using it
<greg-g> no idea what sidebars are
<krondor> ah that was chrome killing side tab, not firefox
<krondor> snap-l:  thanks yeah I'm using gwibber and I can't add a custom statusnet url in the version I'm using.  I haven't dug too much on it though...
<greg-g> krondor: you may have to install gwibber-extension-statusnet or something
<greg-g> gwibber-services-statusnet maybe
<krondor> aye, gwibber-service-statusnet installing.  For other platforms looks like seesmic, tweetdeck, etc.. removed statusnet support.
<krondor> the official client is very bad
<snap-l> seesmic didn't remove statusnet
<snap-l> at least not on the version I'm using on the nook
<snap-l> it's a separate account
<krondor> I just installed it on windows and it's not there.  Maybe droid version still has it.
<krondor> I was using mustard on droid, but there's something wrong with my server's oauth pieces so some work to do there still...
<greg-g> huh, mustard works for identi.ca, but I haven't tried it on our private ccteam.status.net instance yet
<_Marcus> .ca domain, and there is a bunch of Arabic written on the front page :/
<krondor> yeah I think I have the wrong oauth library (too old or too new), generates the keys but mustard doesn't like them neither does gwibber.
<krondor> also the latest 1.0.1 release has a broken User_usernames.php that breaks all auth plugins.
<snap-l> _Marcus: Yes, there are international users of identi.ca
<snap-l> if it makes you feel any better, you can take those arabic strings and run them through Google Translate.
<_Marcus> Nah
<greg-g> _Marcus: yes, Identi.ca is used by many is the Middle East
<snap-l> And if Google Translate is to be believed, they're pretty benign. :)
<greg-g> s/many is/many in/
<greg-g> hrm
<greg-g> not sure how to take that comment
<snap-l> and that's why I don't tell the Pharmacy joke
<greg-g> lol
<_Marcus> :( I missed why you don't tell it
 * _Marcus kicks XChat
<snap-l> _Marcus: It's a complete non-sequiter. You didn't miss anything.
<_Marcus> Oh
<greg-g> grr, my unread-items-I-want-to-read in greader are just growing, not going down :/
<snap-l> greg-g: I have a solution for it
<greg-g> for which?
<snap-l> greader high unread counts
<snap-l> it's called "Mark all read"
<greg-g> NOOOOOOO
<greg-g> they are important blog posts by people I do not know!
<snap-l> It enlists the power of Mark to go and read them for you.
<brousch> instead of books, read your rss feed to him
<brousch> him being your kid
<snap-l> brousch: I thought that was in lieu of my book queue
<snap-l> which, funny enough my RSS queue is pretty low by comparison.
<greg-g> wait, yeah, good point, who is this Mark guy and why is he reading my RSS reader?
<snap-l> greg-g: Because Mark is a speed reader
<snap-l> Like the guy from the Great Space Coaster
 * snap-l just dated himself.
<greg-g> yes, yes you did
<greg-g> and that was a gross mental image
<greg-g> snap-l going on a date with snap-l
<snap-l> greg-g: at least I got dinner first.
<greg-g> now that crosses the line
<snap-l> Just had someone ask me to add their Flight Training course to my web page
<snap-l> apparently they can't tell the difference between a Palm Pilot and an actual pilot.
<snap-l> OK, this is a holy crap moment
<snap-l> just found out that Squeezebox server can listen to xPL, which are TCP/IP X10-like requests
<snap-l> so, you could have something where if you turn on the lights, the radio begins playing
<snap-l> also, can simulate any button press via the command line
<snap-l> 00:04:20:12:04:68 button play <- for instance
<greg-g> whoa, integrated fancy house :)
<snap-l> and it's all under 'Help'
<snap-l> Help / Technical information
<snap-l> Yeah, they really baked in a lot of smart-home functionality in here
<snap-l> http://xplproject.org.uk/wiki/index.php?title=Schema_-_AUDIO.BASIC
<greg-g> nice
<snap-l> http://xplproject.org.uk/wiki/index.php?title=Schema_-_AUDIO.SLIMSERV
<snap-l> I never thought I'd say this in 2012, but I think some expect scripts might be in order. ;)
<greg-g> every now and then my .muttrc gets in a condition where I have no idea why something isn't working anymore and going through commit log doesn't help :/
<rick_h> heh, you change it that much?
<greg-g>  no, which is the weird part :)
<greg-g> rick_h: mostly, the confusing part is how my setup on my x220 acts different on my x200s (one is Ubuntu one is Debian, but, wha?)
 * greg-g needs to do some in-depth debugging sometime, too bad he left his x220 at work for the weekend
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-03-31
<brousch> i'm gonna wander out to lansing for this. any of you east siders want to go? http://www.meetup.com/The-Open-Source-Futures/events/51157462/?a=me1o_grp&rv=me1o
<chris_> this is visual assassin.....had to get a new user name.....having some trouble can anyone help?
<brousch> trouble with what?
<brousch> greg-g: i just saw this on the Python Planet https://openhatch.org/blog/2012/ten-contributors-hacked-oh-during-pycon-sprints/
<chris_> well two things, i cant get my wireless to work and my sound isnt working
<chris_> my wireless used to work when i had a different distro of linux installed as well as the sound but now the sound is not working and i can only connect with a wired connection
<brousch> what version of ubuntu are you using and what's your wireless card?
<chris_> im running lubuntu and im not sure of the wireless card. How do i find out what type of card im running in terminal?
<chris_> i know lubuntu is a slimmed down version of ubuntu but i cant find help anywhere else
<brousch> run this at the command prompt:
<brousch> lshw -C network
<brousch> that will get a lot of info about your network devices
<chris_> BCM4311 802.11b/g WLAN
<brousch> ok, try this at the command line:
<brousch> sudo modprobe b43
<brousch> i see a lot of other people with similar issues, but haven't found a fix yet
<brousch> any particular reason you're using lubuntu?
<chris_> because when i was running the newest version of ubuntu is was laggin my machine and someone suggested lubuntu
<brousch> it is fast
<chris_> wait a second now, it looked like it didnt do anything in terminal but i just looked down and my wireless button came on
<chris_> but now it isnt picking up any networks
<brousch> hm
<chris_> yeah its weird, my phone connects to my wireless but my machine isnt
<chris_> for some reason it is not populating a list of wireless connections
<brousch> chris_: you might try this https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-nettool/+question/161457
<chris_> thanks for the info, ill look into that.....i need the wireless because i need this machine for school that starts monday
<chris_> im gonna reboot and see what happens
<chris_> thanks a lot i rebooted and the list populated and now the wireless is working.....thanks a lot
<rick_h> greg-g: http://upsilon.cc/~zack/blog/posts/2012/03/mutt-notmuch_is_dead/
<greg-g> NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!
<greg-g> oh
<rick_h> greg-g: well it's just been made 'more official'
<greg-g> YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 * greg-g just reacted to url
<rick_h> so FYI
<greg-g> sweet
<rick_h> yea, same here
<snap-l> greg-g: Thank you.
<snap-l> That's exactly what I was looking for with the CC blurb
<greg-g> snap-l: you're welcome!
<snap-l> Just got a new chair mat for the office
<snap-l> one of those Bamboo jobbidoos
<rick_h> brousch: ruh roh http://open.knome.fi/2012/04/01/xubuntu-rebasing-on-debian/
<brousch> see
<brousch> but they'll have to change the name
<rick_h> yea, that was in there
<brousch> which will leave room for a new xubuntu
<rick_h> they're looking for a new name
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-04-01
<jrwren> i seriously don't know how anyone uses ubuntu on teh desktop
<jrwren> inability to resize windows is terrible.
<rick_h> you can't resize windows?
<jrwren> not on bottom or right sides
<jrwren> top left ocrner works, but that is kinda silly
<jrwren> i think I'm started to side with rick_h about certain advanced things
<jrwren> like copy on selection
<jrwren> the fact that it is default on my mac with iTerm2 and I don' tknow how ot enable it in gnome terminal is telling.
<jrwren> easy of use... *sigh*
<brousch> jrwren: now wait a minute. in osx you had to resize a window by clicking and dragging only the lower right corner until, osx lion. how is this same "feature" a problem in ubuntu but not is osx?
<brousch> and in kde i can resize a window by any edge
<brousch> ah, damnit. it's april fools day
<jrwren> brousch: i've no idea. I haven't used osx until now.
<jrwren> i guess if i used old osx it owuld be a problem in osx.
<greg-g> snap-l: have you see http://cchits.net/ ?
<greg-g> I just saw a buddy on identi.ca saying he was listening to the latest episode
<snap-l> greg-g: Yep, and was going to participate, but the shownotes overhead was a bit high
<snap-l> That and most of what is played on OMC is pretty fringe
<snap-l> though there have been some tracks from OMC
<snap-l> btw: Meeting tonight
<greg-g> best. commit. message. ever. https://gitorious.org/mediagoblin/mediagoblin/commit/e089b66bde44ec90950a0acc9d471245295ffa4e
<greg-g> though, one of those is now probably more of an inside joke feel for me (the flip a fukken table one)
<greg-g> snap-l: what do they need for the shownotes?
<rick_h> can you generate a diff at all? having a hard time figuring out how to get from the commit ot the diff
<greg-g> rick_h: yeah, me too. Basically, a bunch of commits on a diff branch to switch from mongo to sql
<rick_h> ah, I knew he was thinking of trying out sqlalchemy at Pycon so curious if he did that or not
<snap-l> greg-g: It was pretty strange. I'd have to look at it again, but essentially I thought "this is way too much work for too little benefit"
<greg-g> huh, weird
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-03-25
<rick_h_> ls
<rick_h_> oops
<snap-l> OK, this is insane
<snap-l> we literally had a mug stick to the counter
<snap-l> I'm not talking like "oh, give it a nudge, and it comes loose"
<snap-l> I mean literally "the one who draws the mug from the counter will become the ruler of England"
<slestak_> i had that happen last week, one of my teens cups
<slestak_> i could almost move the furniture by its new _handle_
<snap-l> Heh
<snap-l> Soaked it, and it came off finally
<snap-l> But damn, it was stuck
<snap-l> Apparently the Nest is on sale on Amazon's Gold Boc
<snap-l> Box, even
<snap-l> http://ur1.ca/d61bo
<snap-l> 180
<snap-l> Ah, it's a first generation
<rick_h_> bwuahahaha http://r.bmark.us/u/5ff823c64e9eeb
<snap-l> I've grown to tolerate the 80 column limitation. :)
<derekv> firefox is broken as hell on my desktop right now
<derekv> for one, it crashes with video half the time
<derekv> but the main thing is that i put on a dark theme and it pulls the text color or the background color half the time for sites or especially text fields without the other
<derekv> disappointing re the mozilla team
<derekv> some fix involving some file user__.css somewhere i'm sure
<snap-l> You sure it's not video card related?
<snap-l> Any time I've had problems with applications, it can be traced to memory or video driver issues
<snap-l> On an unrelated note, I've finally collected all of the Mahler Symphonies conducted by David Zinman. At least I will once Symphony No. 8 comes in the mail.
<snap-l> You may now congratulate me.
<snap-l> Please don't all type at once.
<jrwren_> are they good?
<jrwren_> congrats.
<jrwren_> i like the 79col limit.
<jrwren_> it means I can keep my vim windows the same size and fit a few across a displlay.
<snap-l> jrwren_: They're pretty good readings of the material
<snap-l> not too off-the-wall
<snap-l> Are we having fun yet?
<rick_h_> party party
<rick_h_> http://pycon.blogspot.com/2013/03/how-kids-stole-show-young-coders.html most awesome thing ever
<snap-l> lmorchard brought in his Raspberry Pi last week from Pycon
<snap-l> Honestly, I think I need to convince JoDee that we need a few of these. :)
<jrwren_> did someone resurect jcastro's old site? http://funroll-loops.info/
<jcastro_> it's been up for a while
<jcastro_> some gentoo people took it over
<snap-l> That was jcastro_ 's site?
<snap-l> I feel I just learned my next door neighbor was the Lone Ranger.
<rick_h_> if anyone has a few minutes to spare care to test out a quick bookie build fresh to help sanity check https://github.com/mitechie/Bookie/issues/204
<snap-l> rick_h_: I'm trying the build install on the git page
<rick_h_> snap-l: thanks
<snap-l> np
<snap-l> Got the same alembic==0.3.4 missing foo
<snap-l> lxc precise container
<rick_h_> wtf
<rick_h_> ok, thanks. I'll have to look into it.
<snap-l> I think the pip command isn't working properly.
<snap-l> It's not able to find the download-cache
<snap-l> or it needs a hint. :)
<rick_h_> yea, but it works here locally. So gruble...what version pip and does a bin/pip install -U pip help at all?
<rick_h_> and lmao off the day http://r.bmark.us/u/2418cc308133a3
<snap-l> pip 1.0
<snap-l> No love otherwise
<rick_h_> snap-l: so upgrading pip doesn't help?
<snap-l> Didn't seem to
<snap-l> I think it's a path issue
<rick_h_> ok, what version did it upgrade to? bin/pip --version
<snap-l> 1.3.1
<snap-l> You have it going to file:///download-cache
<rick_h_> yea
<jrwren_> apt repo issues?
<snap-l> ?
<jrwren_> alembic==0.3.4
<jrwren_> apt or pip?
<snap-l> pip
<rick_h_> yea, pip is having issues working in offline mode for people on older installs it seems
<snap-l> It's a localized issue
<jrwren_> ah.
<rick_h_> I'll have to setup a venv and figure it out.
<rick_h_> I moved bookie to use a download-cache git repo for deps vs hitting pypi which is slow and buggy...only now there's this issue so #$@# me
<snap-l> It's a path issue
<snap-l> changed CACHE to /home/ubuntu/Bookie/download-cache on my lxc container, and it's cooking with gas now
<snap-l> also you're missing colorama in the download cache
<rick_h_> hmmm...ok. I can do that. I have the $(WD) in the makefile so I can full path it out I guess
<rick_h_> ah cool, yea been finding those that aren't hit in tests that I missed
<snap-l> You should offload finding stupid errors to a bonafide idiot.
<snap-l> <- bonafide idiot. :)
<rick_h_> hah
<snap-l> Also you could use lxc to handle defaults for Ubuntu 10.04 and 12.04
<snap-l> so you could see which ones will fail
 * snap-l is not sure if debian has images for lxc that are simple downloads or not
<snap-l> Oh, derp... It installs debian squeeze by default
<rick_h_> yea, it's not a problem. Just didn't go through it. Didn't realize the pip stuff I was using was so fragile.
<rick_h_> I'll have to work out a way to make sure that on creating the venv it updates pip...but I don't want to hit the interwebs...oh well
<rick_h_> catch 22 me
<snap-l> Could also make it a make switch
<rick_h_> yea
<rick_h_> default to broken offline and add a flag to update it from the webs
<snap-l> Well, it's not true offline because it still requires a download cache
<snap-l> but yeah
<rick_h_> right, but you can supply that in a build...say a juju charm :)
<snap-l> I smell a work project in there.
<rick_h_> no, just the more we use a nice download-cache at work the more I think it's good practice
<snap-l> yeah, it is nice
<rick_h_> but it does open up making things like tests, charms, virtualmachines images work nicer
<snap-l> especially if you happen to have slow-mo-fo-hub-fu
<rick_h_> right
<rick_h_> and makes things like sprints a lot nicer as well
<snap-l> Right. You can export it, and pass around on a USB key.
<rick_h_> yep
<greg-g> heh, this is what broke WP 30 minutes ago for 5 minutes (we're awesome at reverting): http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7054795/adding-a-script-to-the-page-dynamically-with-jquery-never-uses-the-cached-file
<rick_h_> gah....comboloader ftw
<brousch> WP? WordPress?
<greg-g> Wikipedia
<jrwren_> greg-g: nice.
<jrwren_> comboloader?
<jrwren_> ewe, a rail content pipeline work-a-like?  noty
<jrwren_> CDN > comboloader
<rick_h_> jrwren_: CDN in front of combo loader  win! :P
<rick_h_> jrwren_: not rails content plugin, but a split service to provide JS requested
<jrwren_> I like a global shared CDN for any script for which it makes sense.
<jrwren_> for any other scripts: what you said.
<jrwren_> for jquery and jqueryui adn all that shit that is used by many sites out there - google cdn or msft cdn
<jrwren_> why download what you don't need to?
<rick_h_> to avoid sending 1MB of JS over the pipe for a home page
<jrwren_> exactly.
<rick_h_> and avoid doing rebuilds of the jqueryUI because you suddenly decided to add a new UI component
<jrwren_> rebuilds?
<brousch> If a web page has less than 1 MB of javascript on it, it ain't worth viewing!
<rick_h_> http://jqueryui.com/download/
<jrwren_> oh, themes and stuff,r ight.
<jrwren_> that is when you just change which package you are pulling from CDN :p
<rick_h_> not themes, just support for datepicker, autocomplete, etc
<jrwren_> some other website is bound to use teh same package you do.
<rick_h_> but not every combo of every file is CDN'd
<jrwren_> right.
<jrwren_> use a CDNd combo
<jrwren_> its faster :p
<rick_h_> yep, CDN the urls requested and each url is unique per the JS modules required.
<rick_h_> different pages in the app then use diff urls, but they're smaller/faster
<jrwren_> but they are different urls. unacceptable.
<jrwren_> pretend I'm on 8k dialup.
<rick_h_> well that's the point :)
<jrwren_> if i've already downloaded the file, I don't have to download it again.
<jrwren_> this is just proof http needs a diff protocol :p
<rick_h_> heh
<snap-l> God Dammit, Google: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/03/the-google-shutdown-parade-continues-next-up-site-blocking-in-search/
<derekv> oh nice
<derekv> you mean the one feature that i wanted for years that they finally implemented
<derekv> i feel sick
<greg-g> go home
<derekv> i am home
<rick_h_> ugh, ipad mini prices suck after buying several nexus 7s
<snap-l> rick_h_: That can only mean one thing
<snap-l> You're looking at iPad Minis
<rick_h_> snap-l: yea, for a present for my i* using aunt's birthday
<rick_h_> ugh, I didn't realize the $350 one was only 15GB
<rick_h_> 16
<rick_h_> going to $32 goes over 400
<snap-l> Yeah, they're not cheap
<rick_h_> bah, 32GB
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-03-26
<Guest53617> hey guys. I have a question about using a usb flash drive and fat32 vs ntfs
<Guest53617> I want to switch from ubuntu to mint
<Guest53617> and keep the few files I want to take with me on a flash drive
<Guest53617> hello?
<rick_h_> snap-l: if you get bored can you try another fresh install please? Changed the path to be full on the download-cache and seems to work here.
<snap-l> running now
<snap-l> No distributions at all found for colorama (from -r requirements.txt (line 11))
<snap-l> (fresh checkout(
<rick_h_> ok, removed it and pushed again
<rick_h_> a quick grep finds no hits in the code any longer
<snap-l> kk
<snap-l>   Could not find any downloads that satisfy the requirement Paste==1.7.5.1 (from -r requirements.txt (line 17))
<snap-l> Have to pick J up. bbl.
<rick_h_> hah, ok thanks
<snap-l> she's not quite done yet
<snap-l> on my phone. :)
<snap-l> need paste set in downloadcache
<snap-l> also py-crypt
<snap-l> py-bcrypt, rather
<rick_h_> snap-l: yea, just pushed up 6 missing packages into the cache
<rick_h_> tried to do a diff from the req.txt and ls of the download-cache :)
<rick_h_> not the best, but close enough to find some
<snap-l> not seeing changes
<rick_h_> snap-l: on the download-cache?
<rick_h_> snap-l: make deps should upgrade the download-cache with the missing deps?
<snap-l> one sec.
<snap-l> zope
<rick_h_> zope.configuration ?
<rick_h_> hmm, crap
<rick_h_> ok, well more fun trying tonight. Wheee
<snap-l> Yeah, still getting zope.configuration==3.7.3
<rick_h_> snap-l: even now? /me though I pushed that up.
<rick_h_> hmm, it's a .zip. Wonder if that's an issue.
<rick_h_> done for tonight though. Might have to be a CHC project to get a bare machine and work on it.
<rick_h_> sucks that I don't get the same errors. I must have something setup strnage
 * rick_h_ does the lol dance https://www.archlinux.org/news/mariadb-replaces-mysql-in-repositories/
<derekv> money soup
<derekv> i'm going to be getting a pair of second hand intel atom supermicro servers
<brousch> Is that a microserver in your pocket or are you just a little happy to see me?
<derekv> haha well the first thing is to replace a celeron 433 server thats currently running 11 virtual machines
<derekv> but the funny thing is that the celeron 433 is overkill already
<derekv> dual core 1.6 atom should be just as good though ^_^
<snap-l> Will the Atom machines be able to virtualize intel instructions?
<snap-l> or am I living way in the past.
<rick_h_> snap-l: you're thinking ARM I think.
<rick_h_> arm is a diff compile target
<snap-l> ok
<snap-l> Yeah, I'm thinking ARM
<rick_h_> https://twitter.com/tapbot_paul/status/316367555696656384 lol for your morning
<snap-l> Seriously?
<snap-l> I don't understand how people can get upset over $3 for an application
<snap-l> I've written off several apps that I've purchased.
<brousch> geez
<rick_h_> at least he came to his senses, though it was basically a partially veiled threat to lose your appleid account
<rick_h_> man, so glad I fixed the space picks up a new tag and reloads on bookie
<brousch> I am unable to parse that sentence
<rick_h_> brousch: go to https://bmark.us and enter 'regex' into the filter and hit the space bar
<brousch> I have no bookmarks
<rick_h_> ok, well anyway. There was a bug where using enter would show you the tag, but not reload the bookmarks
<rick_h_> sorry, not enter, but space
<brousch> ah
<rick_h_> fixed it this weekend and used it and now happy again
<brousch> works well now
<dzho> oh, bookie.  thanks for the mention, rick_h_
<brousch> TIL Java 8 exists and can be installed via PPA https://launchpad.net/~webupd8team/+archive/java
<greg-g> who is that webupd8team?
<snap-l> "Frustrated with a bug that never got fixed? Have a great idea for improving the Java SE platform? See how to contribute for information on making contributions to the platform.
<jrwren_> I've been bit twice now by a stale pyc file being there when a py file was deleted.
<jrwren_> How do you deal with this?
<jrwren_> make clean:\n\tfind . -name '*.pyc' -exec rm {}+    <- ? is one way, any suggestions for less heavy handed solutions?
<rick_h_> rm **/*.pyc
<rick_h_> <3 zsh
<snap-l> find . -name "*.pyc" -delete
<snap-l> I <3 these rewards programs:
<snap-l> "Craig, Reward Yourself with 50,000 Bonus Points"
<snap-l> I already did, and I made myself a little pirate hat to go with it.
<jrwren_> -delete ? really?
<snap-l> yup
<brousch> jrwren: You could write a daemon that constantly scans your project to find and remove orphaned .pyc files
<jrwren> ugh
<brousch> Do it well and praise may be heaped upon you ;)
<snap-l> Seriously? :)
<snap-l> Who writes filesystem scanning daemons anymore?
<brousch> I'm thinking along the line of Sass
<snap-l> What you really need is a fuse filesystem with inotify hooks
<snap-l> where .pyc files will disappear automatically if no python process is in the process table
<snap-l> or they could be given a TTL
 * snap-l runs off to patent this brilliant idea.
<brousch> How do you run PEP8 checkers and such? Could you hook a script in the same way?
<rick_h_> sure, on vim au flags and such
<snap-l> I don't see why not, but that might require a separate filesystem. ;)
<rick_h_> or you can just tell it to not create pyc files
<snap-l> rick_h_: Shush
<snap-l> rick_h_: My retirement is now in the balance.
<rick_h_> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/154443/how-to-avoid-pyc-files
<snap-l> DON'T CLICK ON THAT LINK!
<snap-l> LALALALALALALALA
<snap-l> PAY NO ATTENTION TO THAT MAN PASTING STACKOVERFLOW LINKS
<snap-l> Oh, wait, fuse is hard to implement
<snap-l> Well, there goes that idea. :)
<rick_h_> hah
<snap-l> THANKS ALOT OBAMA
<jrwren> rofl, snap-l how much sugar did U have at lunch?
<rick_h_> yea, I think someone got his coffee late today
<snap-l> har har
<jrwren> i seriously hate python.
<rick_h_> lol
<jrwren> or more accurately. I hate that I still have to target 2.6
<jrwren> because really, I love the idea of python. The technical debt here is killing me.
<greg-g> you hate all languages, but then you love all languages, I don't get you
<greg-g> :P
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, I'm getting ancy to get onto 3.3
<rick_h_> jrwren: but even then there's still much tech debt in it
<jrwren> same.
<jrwren> or rather, 3.4 this fall.
<jrwren> 3.4 is going to RAWK!
<jrwren> greg-g: that is my thing. I love/hate each and every programming language.
<greg-g> :)
<snap-l> I think that's true of any tech
<snap-l> You haven't really used it until you find that seedy underbelly of "ick" that you don't like about it
<greg-g> no tech is free of ick, except LISP
<snap-l> LISP is ick turned inside out
<greg-g> right, no ick
<snap-l> It's like Zen. All you see are people sitting in meditation
<snap-l> but internally there's something magical and awesome happening during meditation
<brousch> Django is ickless
<rick_h_> yep, just pure disease ridden :P
<jrwren> lol @ django ickless.
<jrwren> django is nearly all ick.
<brousch> It is weird to see my name on Python Planet http://planet.python.org/
<rick_h_> woot!
<snap-l> brousch: Python ODBC, eh? :)
<brousch> pypyodbc
<brousch> All I did was suggest it
<brousch> Works very well for pulling from Access97 and FoxPro so far
<jjesse> brousch, does that mean you are famous?
<brousch> ha
<brousch> Not even Internt famous
<derekv> lisp - it doesn't have a lot of parathesis, they just took everything else out. ;)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-03-27
<rick_h_97> hehe, now that I've got a case for this thing that will stand it up it's much nicer to use with a keyboard
<rick_h_97> for a portable travel keyboard it's actually not that bad for feel either.
<rick_h_droid> there we go, party party
<snap-l> Good morning
<brousch> yes
<snap-l> https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-qH7mfGrjbHI/UVLeSk-tDUI/AAAAAAAAVoU/vTnY3ICY4zM/s500/8396_523275451048451_1871257821_n.jpg
 * brousch groans
<brousch> https://github.com/aaugustin/django-c10k-demo
<rick_h_> morn
<snap-l> http://statelaws.net/Michigan-Felony.php <- I find it somewhat unsettling that "accessing a computer" is a Class D felony in MI, but forging vehicle documents, assisting suicide, etc. are class E
<snap-l> (And that link is because joDee and I were wondering if Kwame could run for office)
<snap-l> You have not lived until you've tried to throw a cat into a bathtub
<snap-l> she managed to lodge some crap in her back paw
<rick_h_> lol, why would you do that?
<snap-l> Tried to get it off of her paw
<snap-l> she wasn't having any of it
<snap-l> Picking her up to get it off was not happening
<rick_h_> hmm, what's the vote on viewing pycon videos while at CHC tonight?
<snap-l> Not opposed to it
<snap-l> You bringing the bandwidth?
<rick_h_> yea
<rick_h_> I've got the mifi, the portable router that'll allow for more than 10 connections
<rick_h_> from now on I supply CHC bandwidth
<rick_h_> at least when I'm there.
<snap-l> oh, cool
<snap-l> Thank you.
<widox> fancy
<widox> rick_h_: are you talking projecting vidoes on the wall?
<rick_h_> widox: yea, I can bring the portable projector and speaker and stream videos if there's interest
<widox> that could work
<widox> oh, and its early edition today
<rick_h_> right
<rick_h_> we could in theory get in a bunch of them as they're about 35min each
<rick_h_> something for everyone kind of thing
<snap-l> Anyone else trying pump.io?
<snap-l> It's interesting
<snap-l> Evan is really trying to sell folks on the notion that there's no concept of just one server
<snap-l> I think he sees that as a failing of idenit.cs
<snap-l> identi.ca
<rick_h_> no, I give up
<snap-l> rick_h_: Why's that?
<snap-l> https://pumpity.net/snapl
<rick_h_> just no sense trying pump.io. I'd given up on identica and such
<snap-l> I think this iteration is more your speed.
<snap-l> http://pump.io/
<brousch> federation is for star fleet?
<snap-l> Well, I think we're finally out of the "not twitter / not facebook" era
<snap-l> and now we can have decent conversation of what it is we really want from federation
<snap-l> which is "not G+". ;)
<snap-l> Seriously, though, it's more "disconnected servers talking the same protocol set and following the good stuff and ignoring the rest"
<jrwren> snap-l: find anyone for ldap?
<snap-l> jrwren: We're still looking, though ColonelPanic001 pointed us in the direction of someone who might be able to help
<snap-l> jrwren: but we're still looking
<jrwren> i'm a sucker for sharing information people want. if you are still in need, tap me.
<snap-l> jrwren: Awesome. I thought you weren't entering Oakland County any time soon? :)
<jrwren> oh, good point.
<jrwren> damn.
<snap-l> I should have mentined that after we roped you in. :)
<jrwren> now that I live in AA, I'm 20min closer. Mug still meets at Farmington Library, right?
<snap-l> Yep
<snap-l> Directions are on the front page.
<snap-l> We changed it last night
<jrwren> 29mi, 29minutes says bing maps
<jrwren> so that isn't too bad.
<jrwren> when it was 45min it was a real drag.
<brousch> rick_h_ , jcastro_ : Cory Doctrow is complaining about these instructions. Make it easier for him ;) http://www.ubuntu.com/download/help/create-a-usb-stick-on-mac-osx
<jrwren> they do suck.
<jrwren> the lesson is: don't use a mac.
<greg-g> jrwren: says the mac user?
<brousch> It seems like a simple utility you download that gets the LTS or current ISO, convets it for you, then writes it to USB would help convert mac users
<jrwren> I hate my mac.
<greg-g> jrwren: but also love it?
<greg-g> ;)
<jrwren> I mean, I love the hardware and when it works, it is nice, but OSX is too limiting and it crashes :(
<greg-g> it.... crashes?! that's unpossible for Apples, right?
<jrwren> I think it may have been a parallel's kernel module
<jrwren> i removed parallels yesterday. I shall see if it is more stable.
<rick_h_> brousch: sudo dd if=livecd-fedora-livecd-colorhug-201209041147.iso of=/dev/sdd
<rick_h_> done
<rick_h_> Blazeix: taught me the one true way that never fails
<brousch> rick_h_: On OSX?
<rick_h_> ugh, looking at those instructinos the answer is 'just use linux'
<brousch> And WTF are you doing with Fedora?
<rick_h_> brousch: colorhug livecd is fedora. It's worked on by a guy that works for RH
<rick_h_> jcastro_: what you up to tonight? CHC?
<brousch> wrt to "just use linus", someone trying to create an Ubuntu boot disk on OSX is probably thinking about using Linux, but an overly complicated experience just creating the boot media is likely to make them think it's all like that. First impressions, you know
<rick_h_> brousch: right, but the fact that you want to create something using crappy tools so you can get access to other tools...
<greg-g> hah
<greg-g> you guys
<rick_h_> brousch: but yea, would be cool is there was a better way to iso -> usb on all platforms
<rick_h_> greg-g: :P
<brousch> I shouldn't even have to think about iso. I should download a boot drive creator that does it for me
<greg-g> good lord, those are shitty instructions
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea, I +1 that it's bad
<greg-g> but, why can't we at least remove one of the steps by providing a dmg?
<rick_h_> greg-g: not sure, can you use hdiutil on linux?
<greg-g> dunno, but shouldn't matter, someone could set up a mac build box for it
<greg-g> I mean, joeyh does it for his haskell project... and he's a debian guy
<brousch> Doesn't half of Canonical use OSX? Or is that not the case any more?
<greg-g> brousch: zing, muther-effer
<rick_h_> well I know some of the design folks. In the guys I work with there's a bunch of macs, but running ubuntu
<greg-g> in a vm or on the metal?
<rick_h_> on the metal
<rick_h_> admittingly that's limited. The last sprint was 25 folks. There were probably 10 macs with ubuntu on the metal
<rick_h_> my old boss used to run ubuntu in a vm, but changed with his machine. Got tired of fighting the vm
<rick_h_> not saying it doesn't happen, but ime it's not a 10-20% thing among my circles.
<greg-g> right
<brousch> I think the 50% was a rumor started when Unity first came out
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> I don't know it was every 50%
<rick_h_> maybe 50% of the design folks
<rick_h_> but not among engineering
<greg-g> Unity is all made within the Design Team, right? without any community involvement, that's what a little birdy told me at least
<greg-g> sorry...
 * rick_h_ goes back to getting work done :P
<greg-g> :)
<brousch> Wow, greg-g the troll is vicious
<brousch> I'm glad I'm usually on his side
<greg-g> :)
<rick_h_> how did I get stuck trying to defend a tool I don't use?
<brousch> Employer loyalty
<brousch> You're The Man now. Get used to it
<rick_h_> hah, does that mean I get a key to "The Man" washroom?
<snap-l> rick_h_: Right, but it's a family bathroom now
<snap-l> Has a diaper changing station, and a giant "no smoking" sign
<Blazeix> it is also a rip-off of the Apple washroom.
<greg-g> Blazeix: thanks for going there for me
<snap-l> hah
<Blazeix> I have no problem taking cheap, uninformed shots :)
<snap-l> TIL: uwsgi doesn't let the Pylons debugger through (or at least it has additional config to prevent it outside of the normal development.ini file)
<rick_h_> snap-l: it needs to only have one worker. pdb can't work in multi-worker
<rick_h_> snap-l: and of course you've got to run uwsgi manually in the terminal. It doesn't break when run in daemon mode
<snap-l> Ah, that's good to know.
<snap-l> workers can only be > 1 when debug mode is disabled/turned off
<snap-l> Hm, that seems like a useful comment that someone must've put in this INI file
<rick_h_> yea, same with gunicorn/etc.
<snap-l> http://www.dadhacker.com/blog/?p=1976
<snap-l> I'm really starting to hate uwsgi for debugging
<jrwren> you've got a time machine, i've got a gun, what the hell, lets go kill hitler.
<snap-l> " If in 2013 youâre still using Microsoft Office, youâre either in an organization/industry with extreme lock-in through custom business automation or similar that is built exclusively on Microsoft tools, or youâre actively contributing to the destruction of freedom and equality in the world. "
<snap-l> greg-g: Apparently every time I get a .xlsx file, I'm destroying freedom.
<snap-l> "If you canât be bothered, make up for it with a large donation to The Document Foundation, LibreOfficeâs nonprofit organization.
<snap-l> Can we get some DFD indulgences?
<snap-l> I want to buy my way into freedom-heaven
<greg-g> snap-l: I don't think he's referring to people *receiving* them
<snap-l> well, as part of my work, I use OSS to generate them
<snap-l> because we're in an age where CSV files aren't cutting it
<greg-g> so.... you're in the first part
<greg-g> or, if you don't need all the shit that Exel has, then yeah, you didn't lobby enough to get the use of LO :)
<greg-g> full disclosure, CC uses Word for some shit, and GDocs for others. I complained ALL THE TIME about it
<snap-l> If you're not part of the machinery, you're part of the problem. Yeah, that works.
<greg-g> but, fuck CC
<greg-g> oh, did I say that outloud, my bad
<brousch> ohmy
<brousch> Troubles there?
<greg-g> if one was good at reading tea leaves, one could figure out the problems easily
<greg-g> I could simply link about 2 or maybe 3 blog posts here and you'd figure it out
<greg-g> CC blog posts
<snap-l> Not sure what they want to be when they grow up?
<greg-g> the one that isn't a blog post is "hey, we're going to move the office to MV from downtown SF!"
<greg-g> snap-l: that's the current incarnation of the problem
<snap-l> Oh jeez
<greg-g> but it goes deeper
<greg-g> don't worry, the licenses are fine
<snap-l> yeah, I figured the licenses are OK
<greg-g> seriously, the GC, Diane Peters, is amazing, and won't let anything bad happen to them
<snap-l> but I get the sense that the org has to justify itself
<snap-l> and somehow stay hip cool and current
<snap-l> Biggest problem I'm seeing is the "copyleft" brigade trying to steer the ship of CC
<greg-g> that's all org's problem, of course
<greg-g> not the copyleft part ;)
<snap-l> Honestly, I don't understand one whit of the whole coyleft nonsense
<snap-l> (not to be confused with the GNU license)
<jrwren> copyleft is gnu
<snap-l> jrwren: Not that copyleft, some other not-a-lawyer trying to fix the world's problems by yelling at people that everything should be free
<snap-l> https://github.com/richardfontana/copyleft-next
<snap-l> sorry, copyleft-next
<jrwren> oh
<greg-g> that's a terrible mischaracterization of that project
<greg-g> seriously
<greg-g> you just conflated two things that are unrelated
<greg-g> fontana is creating a new license, mostly as an art project to troll Bradley Kuhn
<snap-l> Oh, sorry
<greg-g> there is another thing which is the vocal aspect of the cc-community list that advocates everything being free
<snap-l> It's a lover's quarrel.
<greg-g> unrelated
<greg-g> there's also good parts of copyleft-next, as a license, unequivocally
<snap-l> greg-g: Right, or requiring everything essentially be PD
<greg-g> as in, it addresses many issues people have seen in (A)GPL
<greg-g> snap-l: so... you're referring there to the vocal minority on cc-community, right?
<snap-l> I stopped following it months ago, but yes
<greg-g> right
<snap-l> I thought fontana was a part of that group
<greg-g> he hasn't posted on cc-community in a very long time, though I'm sure he's given feedback on CC 4.0, as he's a really good lawyer who works for RH
<greg-g> I don't understand why there's animosity towards copyleft-next, though
<snap-l> I think I've mistakenly mixed fontana with fabsh
<snap-l> as fabsh was an ass, and fontana was trolling. :)
<greg-g> oh god
<greg-g> yeah, effing fabsh
<greg-g> single handedly may have killed identi.ca
<greg-g> the community
<snap-l> I don't think he can claim credit
<greg-g> he sure tried
<snap-l> just happened to hand out the pitchforks
<greg-g> (to kill it)
<greg-g> heh
<snap-l> there were plenty of assholes that trolled pretty hard in the name of freedom
<snap-l> "Anybody heard about X" "YOU SHOULD USE Y BECAUSE Y IS BETTER"
<snap-l> "Taking my kids to school" "DOES YOUR CAR USE GNU SOFTWARE? PROPRIETARY CARS ARE EVIL. I RIDE MY BIKE TO WORK BECAUSE MY BIKE IS POWERED BY MY FAT ASS"
<snap-l> etc, ad nauseum
<greg-g> I actually never saw much of that, but, to each their own
<jcastro_> lol, you guys still on about identica?
<snap-l> Some of us still use it
<greg-g> snap-l: brought it up!
<snap-l> and are moving to pump.io. :)
<snap-l> greg-g: ofh fine, blame me
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> "but mooooom! Johnny's the one who started it!"
<snap-l> yeah, I had that only kid thing going. Nobody to blame
<jrwren> free, for a certain definition of freedom
<jrwren> free, for my definition of freedom
<jrwren> free, for your definition of freedom
<jrwren> all different.
<jcastro_> my favorite kind of freedom. If you're not using this software then you are not-free.
<jcastro_> "You should use identica instead of twitter" seems more like coercion to freedom to me.
<jcastro_> rick_h_: this intel ssd is sick
<jcastro_> I mean, I've had SSDs before
<jcastro_> but this one makes them all look like a joe
<jcastro_> joke even
<jcastro_> When I install packages it's like, as fast as an "ls" was on my old PC, lol.
<brousch> Good sick or bad sick?
<jcastro_> good sick
<jcastro_> it's insanely fast
<rick_h_> jcastro_: yea, I've got a 520 in my x230 and my test runs are 4-5x as fast as others
<rick_h_> crazy <3
<rick_h_> http://www.speedtest.net/result/2604809224.png vs http://www.speedtest.net/result/2604806899.png take your pick
<rick_h_> start of CHC 1.177GB used...remind me to check at the end lol
<snap-l> howdy.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-03-28
<mathomastech> Even everyone!
<mathomastech> Evening*
<widox> hola mathomastech
<widox> missing CHC
<mathomastech> Yea, unfortunately
<mathomastech> widox: I am about 3/4 of the way to chicago right now. Kinda hard to be 2 places at once.
<widox> boo
<mathomastech> Hows the hacking going?
<snap-l> eh, it goes. :)
<rick_h_> email fits on one page again yay
<rick_h_22> this isn't bad at all
<snap-l> Sve for the nick chaning all the damn time
<rick_h_22> yea, there is that
<rick_h_droid> boom
<rick_h_droid> until we leave
<widox> rick_h_droid: derp
<rick_h_droid> herp
<rick_h_droid> and such
<snap-l> i just uae ssh
<rick_h_droid> yea, ssh ftw
<rick_h_> Blazeix: http://goo.gl/7tYbh
<rick_h_> is the case I have
<rick_h_> with http://goo.gl/ax5m8
<Blazeix> rick_h_: perfect, thanks!
<Blazeix> rick_h_: so i just spent 1.5 hours reading redis documentation and doing some data modeling.
<Blazeix> after all that, i think i arrived at the same data model you described in like 30 seconds :)
<Blazeix> though i'm going to try to put everything in redis, and not need a sql db at all. we'll see how that goes
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h_> Blazeix: hah, very cool
<rick_h_> morning, ugh
<rick_h_> <3 chrome this is badass https://twitter.com/mitsuhiko/status/317275266693083137
<snap-l> Oh hell yes.
<rick_h_> OMG yay! goodreads to audible integration please! http://techcrunch.com/2013/03/28/amazon-acquires-social-reading-site-goodreads/
<rick_h_> auto updating your progress would be so awesome
<snap-l> I hope the Kindle gets the automatic progress updates
<snap-l> I'll never see it for Nook now, but that would be quite awesome
<snap-l> Wonder if that means the Goodreads app will disappear from the B&N store
<snap-l> I <3 these twats that want to put content on my site
<snap-l> hey, we have this infographic on airports and lost luggage. Perhaps you could link to it off this Ubuntu article you have?
<snap-l> How about you get fucked?
<snap-l> Really hate that
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-03-29
<jjesse> evenig
<snap-l> evening
<derekv> everyone has brackethurt
<derekv> i went out and that was all anyone was talking about, so I came back home
<derekv> and on the way, NPR was talking to a pschologist about the pain of loss
<derekv> and turns out specificly, if your bracket is losing
<derekv> i seriously have no idea wth a braket is, but I think it has to do with sports
<snap-l> morning
<rick_h_> morn
<snap-l> Are we having fun yet?
<rick_h_> TGIF
<rick_h_> after not getting done with work until 8pm last night :/
 * rick_h_ is sleepy...
<snap-l> Ugh
<snap-l> Lots to get done before the release, eh?
<rick_h_> in project hell
<snap-l> Folks not getthing things sorted out?
<rick_h_> just a lot to get sorted out.
<rick_h_> add 2hrs of phone calls to your day kind of stuff
<rick_h_> wheeee
<rick_h_> all good, date night on Sat so yay weekend!~
<snap-l> woo woo
<rick_h_> so you'll like this
<rick_h_> a doc my wife works with was interested in my scott-e-vest travel vest
<rick_h_> and when I showed it to her she asked "Where did you get that? The apple store?"
<rick_h_> and my wife jumps in going "shhh, no don't say that"
<rick_h_> <3
<rick_h_> when did the apple store start having clothes? /me should go in one just once
<widox> heh, I didn't get out of work ill 1am :(
<rick_h_> widox ftw!
 * rick_h_ bows 
 * widox sleeps on keyboard
<rick_h_> widox: you should still be asleep
<widox> gotta love getting tapped to help others fix their issues
<rick_h_> yep
<widox> tell me about it
<widox> so yeah, slow moving this morning
<rick_h_> yea, going to be a 'just get by' friday I think
<_stink_> Rush fans: is it ok for me to like Fly By Night so much?  it seems like cotton candy Rush, and I should be skipping it for Subdivisions or something.  but i love it.
<snap-l> _stink_: Any Rush is good Rush
<snap-l> except for Rivendell
<snap-l> You're OK to not like that. :)
<_stink_> haha
<_stink_> phew.
<rick_h_> _stink_: lol
<_stink_> rick_h_: what's 'date night' for you guys?  we never do that.
<snap-l> _stink_: There are folks who like the early stuff over the later stuff
<snap-l> _stink_: You need to do that
<rick_h_> _stink_: baby sitter over at 5pm while we do dinner before my aunt's birthday party at 8pm
<_stink_> baby sitter does bedtime?
<rick_h_> _stink_: so it's basically asking the baby sitter to come over a little earlier than we need so we can sneak a couple of hours in for ourselves :)
<rick_h_> _stink_: yea, the boy is easy for bed
<_stink_> aight
<_stink_> just getting a handle on what we might want to do
<snap-l> Apparently HP and INtel sponsored Project Runway
<snap-l> It's hilarious hearing them talk about how wonderful and innovative HP is
<_stink_> is there an "HP digital accessory wall"?
<_stink_> yes, i have seen too much of that show.
<snap-l> They gave the designers each a HP touchpad with design software loaded on it
<_stink_> hah
<snap-l> And hearing them coo about how wonderful the HP is
<_stink_> that show is a masterstroke of product placement.
<_stink_> well
<_stink_> maybe a cynical overreach of product placement
<_stink_> one of those
<snap-l> Most of them are
<snap-l> Oh this is cynical
<snap-l> tim gjnd saying hp touchsmart desktop is very sing songy
<snap-l> H P Touch Smart Desk Top
<brousch> I like adding django bookmarks to Bookie way too much
<rick_h_> brousch: :P
<brousch> Latest one is Django and Angular.js
<brousch> Double rick-rile
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> Angular, can't get away from that lately
<brousch> I saw a talk on it and it looked interesting, but I haven't touched it yet
<greg-g> g'morn
<greg-g> _stink_: we have only had one "date night" which was when my parents where in town; we went out for dinner by ourselves and carrie's bike was stolen ;)
<greg-g> _stink_: we haven't done one since :)
<_stink_> haha
<rick_h_> ouch
<_stink_> they are dangerous
<rick_h_> my aunt/uncle in VA didn't have one for 4yrs until I was staying with them one summer (long ago when I was in high school)
<greg-g> it was pre-bedtime for Rowan, so we didn't have to worry about that
<rick_h_> they went out for a dinner/movie, never came home
<greg-g> :(
<rick_h_> next day, their kids were asking where thir parents were and I Couldn't tell them
<_stink_> yeeeikes
<greg-g> what?!
<rick_h_> finally, lunch time they came home in a new minivan
<greg-g> with two more kids?
<rick_h_> they had gone car shopping, stayued in an hotel, and came home next day with it
<greg-g> wow
<rick_h_> harder to do that these days with cell phones, but yea...I told them good thing they waited 4yrs to go out
<_stink_> did you give them the parental 'why didn't you call?' lecture?
<rick_h_> so we try hard to get out every other month at least
<rick_h_> not let it get too crazy :)
<rick_h_> http://thechangelog.com/big-security-release-for-postgres-coming/ :/
<brousch> I have parents and 4 siblings in the area, so date nights are as frequent as we want
<rick_h_> you suck!
<rick_h_> I mean...that's interesting
<rick_h_> my in-laws are fraile enough I'm not comfy with the boy with them :/
<rick_h_> otherwise we'd be much better off, but oh well
<greg-g> brousch: yeah, downside #1351 of living in SF: no family
<snap-l> greg-g: I read jwz's DNA Lounge blog. I think you're a little low on those numbers
<greg-g> snap-l: that wasn't the max number ;)
<greg-g> snap-l: but I should have preceeded it with a couple 0's to make the point
<snap-l> greg-g: Heh
<jjesse> anyone know if there is a a way to manage the google music uploads via the command line?
<jjesse> i would like to upload my music while at home and can SSH into my box and start the upload
<rick_h_> please upvote my comment here. http://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/1b9qph/my_biggest_annoyance_with_pep8_docstrings/
<rick_h_> I'm pissy at the moment and just false crap is extra irritating atm
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-03-30
<brousch> rick_h_ cannot sleep because SOMEONE IS WRONG ON THE INTERNET
<rick_h_droid> pretty much
<rick_h_> grrrr
<rick_h_> brousch around?
<rick_h_> YHAVE YOU USED A BT keyboard with android?
<rick_h_> OOPS
<rick_h_> can't figure out how to get control key to work
<snap-l> rick_h_: upboated
<rick_h_> snap-l: thanks :)
<snap-l> np
<rick_h_> hmmm, seems connectbot is untouched for too long :(
<rick_h_> shame, it's the best/cleanest ssh client I've found
<rick_h_> $#@$@# "only accepts openssh pem keys" ...
<rick_h_> and BTEP is no help only using special "dropbear" keys
<brousch> rick_h_: I don't recall using a bluetooth keyboard with Android. I use the Hacker's Keyboaard software keyboard and my Asus has a detachable keyboard
<rick_h_droid> brousch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYuTrE2nZjc&feature=youtube_gdata_player
<brousch> :P http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Xhj8eIGLGE
<brousch> Linux on Android is really pretty good. I have done Django development (git, github, Python2.7,, Django1.5, postgresql, sqlite) on it
<rick_h_droid> cool
<brousch> Vim in the console at 1920x1080
<rick_h_droid> yea I want to be able to ssh and hack for a couple of hours but :(
<rick_h_droid> yea the n10 is higher resolution than my thinkpad
<brousch> oh, virtualenv too
<rick_h_droid> running 17pt font in ssh
<rick_h_droid> I'll have to break down and running
<rick_h_droid> run new ssh keys sometime
<snap-l> I swear, nobody gives adjunct faculty any respect.
<snap-l> Doing our taxes. You can deduct education expenses, but only K-12
<snap-l> It'd be cheaper for us if JoDee didn't work at one of her schools.
<snap-l> This is asinine
<snap-l> And now virtualbox crashed the guest OS
<snap-l> So, who do folks use to do their taxes, bercause this is a complete and utter clusterfuck
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-03-31
<brousch> H&R Block Online
<brousch> Been using it for like 5 years
<snap-l> Yeah, I think I'm going to go to H&R Block office to see if they can make some sense of this
<snap-l> went from getting returns in 2011 to getting my ass handed to me this year.
<snap-l> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=FhJH8OTu1n8#! <- first 30 minutes are hilarious
<snap-l> Not ROFL hilarious, but just not what I expected.
<snap-l> Good morning. Happy Easter.
<rick_h_droid> morning
<snap-l> finally done with eater stuff
<rick_h_> snap-l: party
<snap-l> Yeah, now we're going to watch the new episode of Doctor Who
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-03-24
<cmaloney> Morning
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> from lovely howell heh
<cmaloney> Heh
<cmaloney> How was the morning commute? :)
<rick_h_> ugh, hour long
<cmaloney> Yeah, I can imagine
<cmaloney> Sounds like my commute from Belleville to Auburn Hills
<rick_h_> but place seems nice, 13/6 internet, right on main street.
<cmaloney> No quick way.
<cmaloney> Oh, coffee shop?
<rick_h_> yea, just hop on M59 and keep on going and going
<rick_h_> no, coworking space
<cmaloney> Ah, cool
<rick_h_> didn't think we could work a full day with calls/etc in a coffee shop
<cmaloney> yeah, that would be too tough
<brousch> What's this?
<rick_h_> heh cool that bookie almost got as many apps as phpmyadmin http://blog.cihar.com/archives/2014/03/24/gsoc-2014-applications-phpmyadmin/
<rick_h_> brousch: so when we start a new person we do an intro sprint. Work for a week together
<rick_h_> brousch: so I'm meeting up with kyle in a coworking space in howell this week
<rick_h_> gmaps said 45min each way for each of us, more like 55 for me
<rick_h_> and he's not here yet so I'll assume more for him as well
<brousch> That doesn't sound right. GR is 45 minutes from Muskegon
<cmaloney> Yeah, I think that's "45 minutes as the crow flies" and not "45 minutes in rush-hour"
<brousch> I would put Howell at 2 hours from Muskegon
<cmaloney> I would put Howell as "we'll get there eventually"
<cmaloney> much like the rest of anything past Wixom. :)
<brousch> Depending on when he hit GR, it could add another 15 minutes
<rick_h_> lol
<brousch> Yes, bad rush hour in GR adds 15 minutes to your commute
<brousch> Of course it's possible he's not at home right now, but staying in Lansing or something
<Havenstance> It depends on the way you go to Muskegon from GR though
<Havenstance> I've had travel times from Muskegon to GR take upwards of 2 hours
<Havenstance> obviously there were traffic delays but it happens
<brousch> Well yeah, I'm assuming he takes I-96 and not back roads
<Havenstance> Yeah I've had it happen on I-96, semi crashed & they had the whole road blocked
<Havenstance> isolated incident not like it happens every single day
<Havenstance> Most likely I'd blame it on the traffic though. Its usually 45mins to an hour from GR to Muskegon I used to frequent that drive till I moved to Traverse City
<brousch> Havenstance: Yeah, I just found it odd that they would pick Howell as a center point, since it's 45 mins to GR, then 1:00 to Lansing, then 15 mins to Howell
<Havenstance> Yeah, I don't think I've ever went from Muskegon to Howell though
<brousch> PRobably Kyle just being a nice guy
<brousch> Or Canonical reimbursing mileage so really racking up that bill
<Havenstance> lol, that could be an option too
<brousch> http://www.meetways.com/halfway-point-between-muskegon-mi-usa-and-clarkston-mi-48346-usa-poi-restaurant-ahw-0-atl-0-tmd-driving.html
<brousch> Actually west of Lansing
<Havenstance> yeah that's quite a hike though from troy to muskegon
<brousch> That site shows the half way point and points of interest near there
<Havenstance> that's pretty sweet
<Havenstance> I'll have to bookmark that for future reference
<Havenstance> I remember the last time I was in Muskegon. They had a DeTour down that road that walmart is on, they ran you down Broadway around it basically right through the heights.
<Havenstance> I'd have to see the road sign to know what road that is you get off the freeway and go to the left to get to walmart this way
<brousch> Did they hand out bullet proof glass?
<Havenstance> Hell no lol
<Havenstance> I wasn't too worried about it though. For the most part if you treat the people down there good they do the same in return
<brousch> My wife is from Muskegon, so I get a punch in the arm every time I talk like that
<Havenstance> Hell now a days you got whites hanging around with blacks and vise versa so its not near as bad as it was in the 80s and 90s
<Havenstance> Didn't bother me going that way but my then girlfriend was so scared she was basically hiding on the floor board of the car
<Havenstance> I got quite a kick out of it :)
<Havenstance> She goes my dad always said white people don't go to Muskegon Heights
<Havenstance> I was like yeah that might have been when he was a kid but now you won't have too much of a problem i f your respectful and understand that YOU are the minority there
<cmaloney> Afternoon
<brousch> cmaloney: +1
<rick_h_> -1
<rick_h_> where did the day go so far?
<brousch> rick_h_: Time moves faster in Howell
<rick_h_> heh, something
<greg-g> speaking of Howell, we were looking for random weird linux distros for a coworker to install on a build machine, and along side Hannah Montana linux was the White Supremacist linux :/
<cmaloney> There's also Linux Satanic which apparently links to Open Metalcast
<cmaloney> I'm sure all of my religious instructors are so proud
<cmaloney> Which is part of the reason my alumni associations get the terse phrase "Works with Computers"
<cmaloney> ;)
<cmaloney> http://decafbad.net/2013/12/11/still/
<cmaloney> Also: frustrating when I have a band on my HDD that is amazing yet: 1) Not CC licensed and 2) Apparently was self-released
<cmaloney> (Sleep of Thetis in case you want to play along at home)
<cmaloney> You can tell when rick_h_ is working
<rick_h_> sssshhhh
<cmaloney> Exactly. You can hear a pin drop in here.
<cmaloney> after playing with Ruby I have a renewed appreciation for the masterstroke that is Python's Virtualenvs
<rick_h_> there are times I shake my head at python, but I get headaches from shaking at ruby
<cmaloney> I just created a wrapper for uwsgi in rvm
<cmaloney> It's two commands where my brain would say $path_to_venv/bin/python foo
<cmaloney> It just creates this monolothic structure that, while complete, feels as though it were cobbled together by folks who looked at Virtualenv and decided to make a one-stop-shopping experience.
<cmaloney> and in the end made something more akin to Walmart than Meijer.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-03-25
<cmaloney> Evening
<rick_h_> party
<rick_h_> cmaloney: let me know when you've got time to chat
<cmaloney> one sec.
<cmaloney> http://shop.gogameguru.com/kaya-go-board-86/
<cmaloney> And people say I'm hard to shop for
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h_> morning
<brousch> yes
<brousch> rick_h_: From what I've seen on GSoC I think you will only get 1 slot because you lack a second primary mentor
<rick_h_> brousch: that's why I roped cmaloney into being a second :)
<rick_h_> brousch: but yea, I agree my original plan of two students for one mentor is dashed
<brousch> Each student needs 2 mentors
<brousch> Unless you think they'll let you be primary on one and secondary on another, with cmaloney as the opposite
<rick_h_> hmmm, might try it I guess
<brousch> I wonder how you could demonstrate that you can handle 2 students
<rick_h_> yea, not sure. I have this dream of making them have stand up calls together and code reviewing each other's branches and such
<rick_h_> so I really want to get two to make it more 'team' like
<mrgoodcat> hey all
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: you might be able to convince a student to stay on even if they aren't chosen
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: oh definitely
<rick_h_> and I'll try that on some of the good ones to have mini-mentorship
<rick_h_> if they're in it for the experience vs the $$ might get some interested folks
<mrgoodcat> yea
<mrgoodcat> are applications finished?
<rick_h_> yea
<mrgoodcat> that's gotta be a load off
<mrgoodcat> so now you're just waiting to see which student(s) google gives you?
<rick_h_> yea, so now we sit for a month, not allowed to talk about applications with students, while they wonder if they'll get selected :)
<rick_h_> but yea, slowing down. Catching up a bit. Managed to get caught up on pull requests this past weekend yay
<brousch> Hm, the message I got says talk to students and refine application. Then tell Google how many slots you want with an ordered list of your selected students
<rick_h_> brousch: right
<rick_h_> brousch: and it says not to talk to them about their ranking/etc
<brousch> Ah, about their ranking
<mrgoodcat> well that makes sense
<mrgoodcat> i'd assume you wouldn't even if you could
<mrgoodcat> i wouldn't anyways
<mrgoodcat> might affect the relationship and/or cause hard feelings
<mrgoodcat> "how come he got a 7 and i got a 6 when i made 4 pull requests and he made 3" and such stuff like that
<rick_h_> oh yea, that's already started
<rick_h_> I did tell one guy he was about 5th on the list
<rick_h_> and he wanted to know who was about him
<rick_h_> you know he wanted to compare code contributions/etc
<mrgoodcat> yea i'd imagine every student that doesn't get picked is gonna want to know why and see if there's any way to appeal the process or something like that
<mrgoodcat> anybody heard of https://keybase.io/?
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: yea, it's going around as the 'easy' pgp
<mrgoodcat> i just heard about it today. have you used it yet? unfortunately there's a waiting list for an account
<jrwren> the cmdline looks just like gpg.  maybe just alias keybase=gpg
<rick_h_> no, if you need an inviate let me know. Lots of folks on my team have accounts
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, it's the whole 'twitter verification' thing or what not seems to be the first thing that gets people
<jrwren> zomg, I'd never twitter verify to them! :)
<rick_h_> lol
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: i'll let you know if i need one. i think one of my buddies from school has an invite though. he's the one that sent me the link this morning
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: cool
<mrgoodcat> i'm pretty excited about the service though. the only problem is it doesn't become useful until a bunch of people sign up and people won't sign up if it isn't useful
<cmaloney> Good morning again.
<rick_h_> heh, party party
<cmaloney> Man, did not want to get up this morning
<brousch> Did you shovel?
<cmaloney> brousch: No, fortunately we have only had flurries over here.
<cmaloney> Just tired. That's all.
<cmaloney> Spent most of the night trying to sleep around the cat.
<cmaloney> and some of it failing.
<brousch> jrwren: Are you going to KalamazooX?
<jrwren> yes.
<jrwren> it shall be glorious!
<jrwren> are you going?
<brousch> I'll go if the boss will pay
<brousch> glorious?
<jrwren> sure, why not?
<brousch> I'm skeptical
<jrwren> why?
<jrwren> it was great last year.
<jrwren> best conference I've been to in years.
<mrgoodcat> is it a tedx?
<jrwren> no.
<jrwren> TED sucks.
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> just saw the x on the end and assumed
<brousch> I went to 2 TEDx Grand Rapids conferences. they were pretty good
<mrgoodcat> why hate ted?
<mrgoodcat> ted's a cool guy
<mrgoodcat> but seriously why don't you like TED conferences?
<jrwren> they are all talk, no action.
<widox> jrwren, brousch I'll be at KalamazooX
<mrgoodcat> isn't that the definition of a conferene?
<mrgoodcat> talking about things
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: yes, and TED exaserbates the lack of action.
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yo5cKRmJaf0
<jrwren> there is a TED talk on what is wrong with ted talks
<brousch> There. I worded the request so he almost has to approve it
<brousch> "I would like to attend the KalamazooX Conference on Saturday, April 26. A ticket will cost $50, and it's about 100 miles round trip. This conference focuses on soft skills, which is what I often lack according to my yearly reviews."
<waf> jrwren: interesting, you liked last year's kalamazooX conference? i thought it was pretty bad.
<waf> searl's and rubybuddha's talks were good, but the rest of it was not for me
<waf> though as far as i can tell, it's impossible for searls and rubybuddha to give bad talks, no matter what subject. they are amazing presenters.
<jrwren> waf: really? what were you looking for?
<jrwren> I loved all of them.
<brousch> So full of love
<jrwren> I thought searls was bottom of the bunch. still OK, but meh by comparison to the rest.
<waf> most of the talks could have been read straight out of a self-help book
<jrwren> hahaha
<brousch> See that's why I am hesitant to attend
<waf> brousch: give it a shot, most people liked it
<brousch> I will if my boss pays ;)
<waf> i liked searls's talk because he talked about real-life soft-skill challenges, and how he navigated the murky waters
<waf> that was the sort of stuff i was expecting
<waf> and it was useful. the stuff that was more like "find your center and be happy" i was a bit disappointed with
<jrwren> waf: ah! that is understandable.
<jrwren> waf: i just assumed all the talks are by people going through a midlife crisis.
<waf> hahaha
<Havenstance> welcome back mrgoodcat
<Havenstance> morning everyone
<jrwren> good morning
<Havenstance> Got some real work for a few minute then I'll be back to "waste Time" :)
<brousch> Response from boss re KzooX: "Nerdfest.  I'll cover the ticket and the mileage.  Bar tab is on you.  Live long and prosper."
<waf> haha, nice
<brousch> So, I'll be there
<Havenstance> Thinking I might go myself
<greg-g> brousch: I thought you didn't want to go?
<greg-g> g'morning/almost afternoon, east coast
<brousch> greg-g: I questioned the usefulness of the talks, but jrwren's endorsement made me thing more. Also, the boss is paying
<brousch> think, too
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> free trip's are good
<Havenstance> I would be 10-1 I could get my boss to do the same if I asked lol
<Havenstance> But I'll probably just foot the bill myself and go. I need a damn road trip
<brousch> Havenstance: Feel free to use my wording to help you get funding
<Havenstance> brousch, most likely my boss would send me just to improve my skills and usefulness to him
<brousch> Exactly
<Havenstance> He gave me the days off for Penguicon
<Havenstance> I just have to reserve the ticket for that
<brousch> I just have to show some business usefulness to the conference, and have it not be crazy expensive
<Havenstance> he wants a list of the conferences and/or courses and he's said he'll pay for that too
<brousch> Heh, he is paying for penguicon?
<Havenstance> my problem is getting mileage out of him for the trip from Traverse City to Detroit
<greg-g> wow, yeah, penguicon is a bit of a stretch :)
<brousch> That's a bit of a drive
<Havenstance> he wants me to improve my skills....
<Havenstance> Its actually quite hilarious at the stupid shit this guy will pay for
<greg-g> in drinking and polyamory with furries?
<brousch> BTW, I will camping with my family in Traverse City this summer.
<cmaloney> As someone who really likes Penguicon, that's a bit of a stretch. :)
<cmaloney> But hey, come on down for the release party. :)
<greg-g> Penguicon: The Weirdest Ubuntu Michigan Release Party Venue
<cmaloney> Bah
<cmaloney> Friday is nowhere near weird
<cmaloney> Saturday night though...
<greg-g> :)
<cmaloney> "It's life Jim, but not as we know it"
<havnestance3> they mentioned that the preview of ubuntu 14.10 would be shown there
<havnestance3> he thinks that somehow requires my attention
<havnestance3> er 14.04
<cmaloney> orly?
<cmaloney> 14.04 should be released by then
<brousch> They?
<havnestance3> i politely remided him that it'd be out by then
<cmaloney> if we're lucky we'll have discs
<havnestance3> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/venues/United_States/1100/detail/
<havnestance3> he was like you might learn something here
<cmaloney> Yeah, the names and faces of folks on IRC> :)
<havnestance3> i was like if you mean how to get blasted & fuck nerdy girls yeah I might learn something
<havnestance3> his response was classic "as long as you get some useful skills out of the class I don't care what you do with your dick"
<greg-g> he should
<havnestance3> yeah, I know me
<havnestance3> alcohol + hot nerdy girls = no class for me
<havnestance3> hell alchohol + girls = no class for me
<greg-g> pro-tip: treat women well, with alcohol or not, and you'll find you have class :)
<havnestance3> didn't have the heart to tell him that i've already been playing with 14.04 dailies at home
<havnestance3> greg-g, im aware of that good sir :)
<havnestance3> I just choose to hang out with the women vs being bored to tears all day
<havnestance3> I would most certainly go to the release party though, because I'd be interested to see some of the major changes hilighted
<brousch> cmaloney: Hear that? Now you need a formal presentation for 14.04.
<havnestance3> he don't need a formal presentation :)\
<brousch> I expect a proper slide deck with musical accompaniment
<greg-g> havnestance3: :) :)
<havnestance3> By then I'll have it loaded on a VM and be playing with it anyway
<havnestance3> His release party could include spiked punch and I'm game
<havnestance3> brousch, could just bring booze and say we are partying because its "Finally" out :)
<brousch> I will not be there
<havnestance3> heh, I'm not 100% that I will be yet either
<havnestance3> He wants me to go but I may be switching jobs. I'm in the process of talking with another company who has already offered me 65k a year for what I know. Not the greatest salry but its pretty damn good for someone with no college
<cmaloney> That's the great thing about a community - delegation. :)
<jrwren> how many years of experience do you have?
<cmaloney> Yay new Animals as Leaders album.
<rick_h_> cmaloney: with http://r.bmark.us/u/976f93a3c1fc36 your storage is down from 200 to $50/mo
<greg-g> typo in articled
<greg-g> -d
<brousch> Is anybody using Drive like Dropbox?
<brousch> Can it even work like that on Linux?
<greg-g> if you use git-annex :)
<greg-g> git-annex supports gdrive
<rick_h_> so this isn't gdrive but their compute cloud
<rick_h_> oh, but you mean in reference to dropbox
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Yeah, I'm starting to think seriously about offloading some of my less-critical backups
<cmaloney> But I also need to consider what I'm going to do about my current storage as that's pretty maxed out.
 * cmaloney just needs to bite the bullet and get some new drives.
<cmaloney> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7152547/
<cmaloney> A lot of that can just be offloaded into cold storage
<greg-g> dash h man, -h
<cmaloney> (/home that is)
<greg-g> 865gigs used in a 1tb (961gig) drive
<cmaloney> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7152552/
 * greg-g hates having to highlight text to count digits :)
<cmaloney> heh
<rick_h_> cmaloney: -h man -h
<rick_h_> oh, greg-g already got you
<cmaloney> Jesus
<rick_h_> nvm
<brousch> cmaloney: D00d, did you know you can use -h to get more human-readable units?
<cmaloney> Apparently df without -h is like tossing acid in people's eyes.
<rick_h_> pretty much
<brousch> It's like sitting on a rusty fence post. Please train yourself to always use it.
<jrwren> /dev/mapper/datavg-music  4.7T  3.4T  1.2T  75% /music
<jrwren> j/k
<jrwren> did you know that sort can read the -h output?
<jrwren> du -h | sort -hr | head
<cmaloney> I did not know that.
<jrwren> newer feature
<jrwren> i know not when it was added
<greg-g> jrwren: wait, just kidding that that is your music library?
<jrwren> greg-g: right.
<jrwren> greg-g: that is my movies, tv and music.
<jrwren> /dev/mapper/datavg-nomirror  4.7T  3.4T  1.2T  75% /nomirror
<jrwren> i doctored it ;)
<greg-g> heh
<greg-g> hmmm, my lastpass login takes substantially less long now (I had it set at the maximum number of hashes, to slow down repeat attempts)...
<cmaloney> jrwren: https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-VgGMV22t-yw/UuauqiaCACI/AAAAAAAAAjw/cJd6VgGy77o/s480-no/785a2bc7-f6e9-4d7c-bfcc-3926cce91690
<cmaloney> Didn't half recognize you in that photo. You look like you should be carting a Macbook Pro to a Rails conference.
<cmaloney> ;)
<cmaloney> Facebook acquires Occulus Rift
<cmaloney> let the wailing and gnashing of teeth commence.
<jrwren> lol
<jrwren> cmaloney: its cold. I need the extra insulation
<cmaloney> Heh
<jcastro> http://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/1wf6mg/so_no_way_to_confirm_this_but_my_friend_works_in/
<jcastro> hahah
<jcastro> man.
<rick_h_> heh
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-03-26
<rick_h_> here's a thought for you https://twitter.com/steveklabnik/status/448596654426300416
<jrwren> cmaloney: my beard is MUCH larger now
<cmaloney> jrwren: Apparently all the cool kids are doing it now
<cmaloney> waf is working on a luxurious beard.
<cmaloney> I unfortunately am beard-challenged. :)
<rick_h_> yea, I just skipped grey and going to white beard
<rick_h_> I feel like I'll be a more unique pirate name if I go for 'white beard the cranky'
<jrwren> i'll clean up some time in the next month
<cmaloney> jrwren: No, you won't. :)
<jrwren> i will or my wife will kill me
<cmaloney> Once you go beard you never go back
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h_> ugh
<cmaloney> rick_h_: That good eh?
<rick_h_> is it friday yet?
<cmaloney> Almost htere
<cmaloney> there even
<brousch> Too many conferences! http://eepurl.com/Rb2SL
<cmaloney> Heh
<cmaloney> Yeah, I got that one as well
<cmaloney> And had it not been after PyCon / Penguicon / Anniversary I think I might consider it
<cmaloney> as it stands now I'd need some heavy duty convincing
<brousch> And only 2 days to submit a talk?!
<cmaloney> That doesn't bother me so much. :)
<brousch> Wow. The Penguicon programming is really impressive
<cmaloney> yeah, Kevin O'Brien et al have done a fine job
<cmaloney> There's a lot of tech programming this time around
<cmaloney> Though apparently they moved the release party from Friday to Saturday because jcastro can't manage to make Friday.
<cmaloney> or so I'm told. :)
<jcastro> o/ I will be there!
<jcastro> I just found out I don't have to leave either
<cmaloney> Oh nice!
<cmaloney> However if it's against the Smithees JoDee won't be there.
<cmaloney> jcastro: You still doing the Fitbit?
<jcastro> no I lose my stupid charger
<cmaloney> Ah, bummer.
<jcastro> and since I have a flex it's some dumb one of a kind charger
<jcastro> not a USB
<cmaloney> Yeah, I have the Flex as well
<cmaloney> using it with Linux.
<jcastro> I just haven't gotten one yet
<jcastro> I plan on it
<jcastro> rick_h_, around?
<rick_h_> jcastro: rgr
<cmaloney> He's headed to Howell
<cmaloney> or just arriving
<rick_h_> hour long commute 1/2 complete
<rick_h_> 1 of 2 vs 1/2
<cmaloney> heh
<jcastro> rick_h_, ok call me when you get a minute, not work related, just funny story
<rick_h_> jcastro: k
<brousch> The Penguicon programming makes no mention of furries and only 12 mentions of polyamory
<cmaloney> brousch: Quick question: how many times have you been to Penguicon?
<brousch> 0
<brousch> I have only second hand accounts
<cmaloney> I think you need to come to recalibrate your impressions of it. :)
<cmaloney> Cory Doctorow is coming back of his own volition
<brousch> It looks far more respectable this year compared to last time I looked
<cmaloney> btw: New Animals as Leaders album is awesom.
<jrwren> party party
<jrwren> My wife just got into reading Doctorow this year. I think she has read all of his novels now. I think I'll be at penguicon as a result :)
<cmaloney> Heh
<cmaloney> You do realize that's Oakland County
<cmaloney> and Boss Hogg will be waiting.
<jrwren> I know.
<jrwren> i was in oakland county not long ago!
<jrwren> I went to the zoo!
<jrwren> it wasn't hell.
<jrwren> I may have turned a new leaf.
<jrwren> likely because it was literally sunday driving
<cmaloney> heh
<ColonelPanic001> I should read some more Cory before going
<ColonelPanic001> I tend do end up doing it in reverse order
<ColonelPanic001> I saw Vinge at Pcon, then read A Fire Upon The Deep, and loved it.
<ColonelPanic001> instead of doing it the other way around and getting more out of seeing his panel(s)
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> Yeah, same here.
<jrwren> they are young adult category, so they are typically very quick reads.
<jrwren> Little Brother was <3 especially becuase of teh tech realism.
<mrgoodcat> good morning everyone
<brousch> yes
<mrgoodcat> new wolfenstein collectors edition doesn't include a copy of the game
<mrgoodcat> à² _à² 
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: widox waf cmaloney and people I miss CHC is 7pm early tonight
<mrgoodcat> oh good i would have forgotten it's early
<jrwren> imma use bookie/tests as a guide for writing good tests.
<rick_h_> jrwren: heh, best of luck to you :)
<mrgoodcat> jrwren: guide for work, self, or public?
<mrgoodcat> made bmark.us/recent my homepage today. so much usefulness on a single page
<jrwren> work
<rick_h_> jrwren: hmm, I'd consider bookie tests mostly C for the most part
<rick_h_> jrwren: so if it's useful awesome, but I'd not make them the upper model
<mrgoodcat> what do you mean "mostly C"
<greg-g> (rick has high standards)
<greg-g> mostly a C grade, not B or A
<mrgoodcat> got it
<jrwren> yeah. i already gave up :(
<mrgoodcat> wow
<mrgoodcat> that bad huh?
<rick_h_> heh, yea there are bad parts no doubt. They're too functional vs unit'y, at least the web ones
<rick_h_> get the job done but meh
<rick_h_> well bookie is a 4yr old project. My views on testing and such have expanded a bit in 4yr
<mrgoodcat> i would certainly hope so
<mrgoodcat> i often wish i had more exposure to TDD
<rick_h_> I'm not a big fan of TDD in the strict sense. I find it leads to crappy apis
<rick_h_> but yea, more tests is better sooner and more often
<mrgoodcat> i mean testing in general
<rick_h_> yea, gotcha
<mrgoodcat> i've had really limited exposure since i haven't had to work with any real serious codebases. school coding projects are borderline jokes and testing has never been mentioned once in a single class i've ever taken
<jrwren> no.. more that what I'm doing sucks and I don't want to test it, cuz I'm a bad dev
<mrgoodcat> really frustrating sometimes since it seems such a huge part of the industry
<jrwren> rick_h_: but... but... Test Driven Design!!!
<jrwren> it leads to gREAT apis
<cmaloney> https://twitter.com/squeekyhoho/status/448860315925504002
<rick_h_> jrwren: not ime
<cmaloney> IME = In My Estimation?
<rick_h_> in my experience
<cmaloney> ah
<cmaloney> imex
<cmaloney> IMEx
<cmaloney> IMEst.
<jrwren> rick_h_: I've used it with success and I've used it with failure.
<jrwren> I like the idea of test driven design
<jrwren> but it means you are testing for the right design.
<jrwren> IMO the whole point is to write the tests for the great API that you want to exist. Then make them pass.
<jrwren> if you didn't do that, then yeah, you might get a bad API
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, true TDD of one test at a time with the 'smallest change to make the test pass" doesn't consider enough 'big picture'
<greg-g> takes some pre-planning
<jrwren> rick_h_: exactly. that is test driven dvelopment. different from test driven design
<jrwren> the emergent design through test driven development is a crock IMO.
<rick_h_> jrwren: +1 we can agree then
<jrwren> i'm just really not in the mood to TDD right now. It seems like so much work.
<rick_h_> lol
<jrwren> i htink I've forgotten how to do it
<mrgoodcat> damn long lunch. so behind now >:[
<mrgoodcat> thinking about buying that kent beck book everyone always links on the interwebs
<cmaloney> Kent Beck book?
<cmaloney> Well apparently Google really knows Kent Beck. :)
<cmaloney> type: kent beck book
<mrgoodcat> his book 'test driven development: by example' is supposed to be the best there is
<mrgoodcat> or so says the internet anyways
<mrgoodcat> what if your tests aren't testing what you think they are? write tests for your tests :)
<brousch> What test framework works best if you are writing a test framework?
<mrgoodcat> what if the testing framework has a bug
<brousch> Right, that's why you can dog food it
<brousch> can't
<mrgoodcat> what if x/0 is actually not mathematically impossible? i think is the logical conclusion of that line of thought
<jrwren> jcastro: Learn something at Fanzoo tonight. You gonna make it?
<jcastro> LTS crunch dude, sorry
<jcastro> I will be @ Penguicon though
<jrwren> gl hf
<jcastro> consider rick and I dead
<jcastro> for now
<jrwren> you working hard to get python 3.4 into 14.04 ?
<jcastro> but not smoser, he's just walking around looking around
<jrwren> that is because he works hard the other 50 weeks in the year
<rick_h_> no, quickstart into main :)
<jcastro> Right now I am working on logstash/elasticsearch/kibana
<jrwren> quickstart into main?  juju quickstart?
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea
<jrwren> jcastro: !!! I was just looking at that on Friday.
<jcastro> we have the charms dude
<rick_h_> the ES charm is looking hot. I want to use it for Bookie while I'm at pycon
<jrwren> jcastro: you realize elasticsearch only supports 2 version of JVM and ubuntu doesn't ship those JVM versions?
<jcastro> they are a bit stale upstream version wise, but I'll have that hooked up before release
<smoser> jcastro, i just did 3 uplaods today
<jrwren> link me to charm. I wanna see how they get old JVM versions on there.
<smoser> :)
<greg-g> jcastro: ooo, logstash, we put logstash into production a little bit ago, not depended upon yet, but we like it (still migrating logs to it)
<jcastro> jrwren, charms have root, whatever unholy JVM shit you wanna do, don't care
<jcastro> smoser, <3
<rick_h_> lol, smoser to his defense
<jrwren> yay! insecure by default - because kibana requires an open port to JVM service.
<jrwren> jcastro: so it grabs an OLD sun JVM and installs it?
<greg-g> so far only need 3 beefy ES boxes, we'll probably need to bump that up though....
<jcastro> this one is using openjdk
<jcastro> greg-g, yeah it's like you woke up one day and everyone is using elasticsearch
<jcastro> that's how I see it anyway
<jrwren> um yeah, your ES charm sucks and is broken.
<jrwren> i jsut looked.
<jcastro> we've rewritten it
<rick_h_> jrwren: which one, there's a couple
<jrwren> apt-get install -y default-jre-headless  # <-- recipe for fail
<jcastro> we just haven't synced it back into the the store
<jrwren> the juju recommended one.
<jrwren> i dunno
<jcastro> but our new one is hawt, and will get the upstream blessing
<jcastro> unless I mess up this call entirely in the next 2 hours
<jrwren> https://jujucharms.com/sidebar/search/precise/elasticsearch-3/?text=elasticsearch#code
<jcastro> our new one is all ansible-ized
<jrwren> you guys have very different values than do I :)
<jrwren> jcastro: let me know when you get those charms up. I'd like to test 'em.
<jcastro> 14.04ish
<jrwren> so the will be trust charms, not precise?
<jcastro> they'll be precise too
<jrwren> cool
<jcastro> the target for new charms will still be precise for a long time
<jrwren> that is kind of what I figured.
<jcastro> with forward porting to trusty, not the other way around
<jcastro> precise is not even to 50% of the lifecycle
<jrwren> how does juju handle that?
<jcastro> juju deploy precise/foo
<jcastro> juju deploy trusty/foo
<jcastro> it's just a different series
<jrwren> http://www.gnome.org/news/2014/03/gnome-3-12-released/  so sad - no free codec love.
<jrwren> video requires h264 instead of webm
<greg-g> :/
<jrwren> so sad that I have to wait for jcastro ES charm
<jcastro> jrwren, btw on the call today they told me they prefer openjdk
<jcastro> jrwren, charms are upgradeable, you can play now and upgrade later
<jrwren> who is they? ES?
<cmaloney> Evening
<rick_h_> party
<cmaloney> jcastro: If given the choice between Sun JDK and OPenJDK I'd prefer OpenJDK too
<jrwren> its what I was using with ES.
<jrwren> it doesn't work with ES :(
<jrwren> ES claims to require a specific patch level with know vuln.  newer java has sec fixes but bugs which mess with lucense and thus mess with ES
<jrwren> basically, ES is a ghetto
<Havenstance2> anyone have an idea how to forward a port in zentyal?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-03-27
<mrgoodcat> Havenstance2: http://www.ryanhallman.com/?p=32
<Havenstance2> ya i tried that, its broken still
<Havenstance2> don't know why it would be but it is
<Havenstance2> i can use my external IP to connect just fine, but no one else can
<Havenstance2> obviously my machine is set as an always allow object though
<rick_h_> https://github.com/jdorn/json-editor
<rick_h_> waf: ^
<cmaloney> Morning.
<rick_h_> ugh, now is it friday?
<cmaloney> Closer still
<mrgoodcat> morning
<brousch> yes
<cmaloney> Morning and all that.
<ColonelPanic001> neat. Work is paying the registration for that self.conference thing
<ColonelPanic001> now to wait and see what the hell is going to actually be there
<rick_h_> lol
<brousch> ColonelPanic001: Submit your talk now!
<ColonelPanic001> "Magento: How to work on this PHP thingy without hanging yourself, and how I've been mostly successful, so far"
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> rick can do a talk on how much macbooks and ruby suck
<ColonelPanic001> I'd go.
<ColonelPanic001> I like ruby's syntax, from a little glancing at it
<ColonelPanic001> but I am not experienced with it enough to have a strong opinion
<ColonelPanic001> I just like that it was like Perl with nicer objects
<cmaloney> Now now now, not how much they suck but how they get it wrong. :)
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: lol
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: I feel like I left an impression last night
<cmaloney> rick_h_: I think the seismologists are still trying to figure out the source of that crater.
<ColonelPanic001> >_>
<brousch> macbooks suck?
<rick_h_> yes
<ColonelPanic001> I just don't like apple in general.
<cmaloney> brousch: They're less than trivial to get running anything other than OSX
<ColonelPanic001> big surprise from someone in an ubuntu channel, I know.
<cmaloney> ColonelPanic001: Tun in your geek cred card. :)
<brousch> Oh well there's a surprise
<ColonelPanic001> there's nothing geeky about apple.
<ColonelPanic001> there are plenty of better reasons for to turn in my card
<rick_h_> cmaloney: got me all wined up and then set me loose against ruby and apple last night at CHC
<ColonelPanic001> haha
<ColonelPanic001> I'm sorry I missed it.
<ColonelPanic001> I like a good rant that I agree with
<rick_h_> and poor mrgoodcat got caught in the cross fire
<rick_h_> or in front of the bulls eye, something like that
<brousch> because he's a ruby-loving macbooker?
<brousch> Who also uses emacs?
<ColonelPanic001> mrgoodcat was writing Ruby on his macbook at the time?
<ColonelPanic001> brousch: people with 35 fingers
<cmaloney> I got you wined up? Riiiiight.
<rick_h_> lol
<ColonelPanic001> I'd like to get rick_h_ all wined up. wink wink.
<ColonelPanic001> nudge nudge
<rick_h_> that's my story and I'm sticking to it
<cmaloney> I think the only thing I could have provided to help would have been a funnel.
<cmaloney> ;)
<rick_h_> lies
<ColonelPanic001> sounds like CHC has gotten more fun out there since I was last in attendance
<cmaloney> ColonelPanic001: WEll, if you discount the deathmatches and cabaret numbers it's pretty much the same.
<ColonelPanic001> I will not discount the deathmatches
<ColonelPanic001> I'll show up for them.
<cmaloney> Cool. :)
<rick_h_> cmaloney: oh, I never got your my mutt config
<rick_h_> cmaloney: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7162865/
<cmaloney> no worries. Whenever you get a chance.
<ColonelPanic001> that's ruff.
 * ColonelPanic001 just leaves now.
<rick_h_> cmaloney: and I just  */5 * * * * /usr/bin/notmuch new
<brousch> That reminds me, I picked the worst week to deliver alcohol to rick_h_
<rick_h_> brousch: is that you?
<rick_h_> brousch: I got it resched for monday. I couldn't figure out where the wine was coming from. I can't sign for it as I'm an hour away and couldn't remember ordering anything
<cmaloney> rick_h_: What is mutt-notmuch? Is that a script?
<rick_h_> cmaloney: oh yea probably http://notmuchmail.org/notmuch-mutt/
<cmaloney> kk
<rick_h_> cmaloney: see http://upsilon.cc/~zack/blog/posts/2012/03/mutt-notmuch_is_dead/
<rick_h_> cmaloney: that's what I started with
<brousch> rick_h_: Yeah. i thought I was smart since you are normally home to sign for it, but realized just now that this is an abnormal week
<rick_h_> see https://bmark.us/recent/mutt for useful mutt links :)
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, well cool and thanks for explaining the mystery
<rick_h_> my wife thinks I joined another wine club lol
<brousch> hah!
<brousch> I'll deny it all if she asks
<rick_h_> "I thought you were done with any more wine clubs!"
<cmaloney> Apparently notmuch-mutt is integrated into notmuch
<cmaloney> which is packaged in releases after precise. :)
<brousch> rick_h_: Sorry for the stress. It was supposed to help you get through GSoC easier
<rick_h_> oh nice
<rick_h_> brousch: lol, awesome
<rick_h_> Well I've rescheduled it for monday so look forward to checking it out then
<brousch> It's a bottle of my wife and I's favorite wine
<rick_h_> brousch: ah very cool
<rick_h_> shame we werent' around. Wife and I are having a belated anniversary dinner/evening and would be good to pop open
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Thanks!
<rick_h_> cmaloney: got it working?
<cmaloney> Yeah, seems to be
<rick_h_> cmaloney: cool, yea it's the key to my move to mutt
<cmaloney> Though not sure what F9 is supposed to do
<rick_h_> cmaloney: so highlight a message in your inbox, and it'll pull the thread together based on search
<rick_h_> so let's say you've been getting a thread over time and archiving the old messages each day, you can regen the thread. Good for "oh I got a reply, what was the original message?"
<cmaloney> Ah, OK.
<rick_h_> I don't use it a ton as usually a search on subject/etc is better
<cmaloney> Yeah, no kidding
<cmaloney> Ugh. I'd love to unsubscribe from the loco-contacts list some days.
<cmaloney> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/loco-contacts/2014-March/006664.html
<mrgoodcat> i'm not saying it isn't a valid pursuit, but it is annoying to get those emails
<mrgoodcat> ugh... rubygems is so jenky today
<cmaloney> s/ today/./g
<mrgoodcat> no i usually don't have problems
<mrgoodcat> it is intermittent right now
<cmaloney> Not that you're aware of.
<mrgoodcat> can anyone tell me why the menu text is not wrapping properly on cclub.dyladan.me
<mrgoodcat> http://cclub.dyladan.me <- clickable :)
<mrgoodcat> it's been pissing me off
<rick_h_> define menu text and why would it wrap?
<rick_h_> .pure-menu .pure-menu-heading: white-space: no-wrap ?
<brousch> .pure-menu a, .pure-menu .pure-menu-heading { white-space: nowrap;
<brousch> Damn you rick_h_  and you fast fingers!
<rick_h_> I shortcut and only copied half the stuff :P
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> it would wrap because the text is too wide for the menu. i mean the bar on the side
<mrgoodcat> and thanks
<mrgoodcat> perfect seems to work now
<mrgoodcat> off to class
<cmaloney> Afternoon
<mrgoodcat> afternoon
<mrgoodcat> i just read the website computer club for the first time an apparently it's wildly inappropriate
<mrgoodcat> http://ccowmu.org
<mrgoodcat> à² _à² 
<Havenstance_> mrgoodcat, do you happen to be on? I have an easy question for ya
<mrgoodcat> hey
 * mrgoodcat is omnipresent
<Havenstance_> easy question, do you know if you can pull up that graph that zentyal shows for the ethernet ports for say a 24 hour period?
<mrgoodcat> the traffic graph?
<Havenstance_> yeah
<Havenstance_> network > BW Monitor gives me an unexpected sql error
<mrgoodcat> hmm
<Havenstance_> DBD::mysql::st execute failed: MySQL server has gone away at /usr/share/perl5/EBox/MyDBEngine.pm line 466, <GEN0> line 3850. Stack: [/usr/share/perl5/EBox/MyDBEngine.pm:466] [/usr/share/perl5/EBox/MyDBEngine.pm:496] [/usr/share/perl5/EBox/BWMonitor.pm:178] [/usr/share/perl5/EBox/BWMonitor/Model/BWUsage.pm:131] [/usr/share/perl5/EBox/Model/DataTable.pm:1458] [/usr/share/perl5/EBox/Model/DataTable.pm:1403] [/usr/share/ze
<Havenstance_> ntyal/templates/ajax/modelViewer.mas:79] [/usr/share/zentyal/templates/ajax/tableBody.mas:21] [/usr/share/zentyal/templates/ajax/tabMenu.mas:60] [<anonymous component>:36] at /usr/share/perl5/EBox/CGI/Base.pm line 340
<mrgoodcat> ummmmm
<mrgoodcat> i thought you said this would be an easy one
<Havenstance_> i thought it would be until i saw that lol
<mrgoodcat> this is teh module you want http://doc.zentyal.org/en/monitor.html
<mrgoodcat> the bandwidth monitor only does an hour
<Havenstance_> okay, so this module apt-get install zentyal-monitor?
<mrgoodcat> is that a package?
<mrgoodcat> not a valid package on my machine
<Havenstance_> Just going back to the install of the server they stated that apt-get install zentyal-module where module is the desired name
<mrgoodcat> oh
<Havenstance_> idk now the dashboard is timing out I half wonder if this is a corrupt install somehow. I installed via apt-get rather then the cd because making a CD for me is painful as shit on this box
<mrgoodcat> well its not a valid package
<Havenstance_> zentyal-monitor - Zentyal - Monitor
<Havenstance_> says so on the website lol
<Havenstance_> i'll try it & report back momentarily
<mrgoodcat> any luck?
<mrgoodcat> i'm in class so i have to go
<Havenstance_> says its already the newest version
<mrgoodcat> sry. i'll be on later
<Havenstance_> alright man i'll try at it and let you know how it pans out :)
<Havenstance_> Maintenance>Monitoring
<Havenstance_> found it ty
<Havenstance_> and its b0rked too
<Havenstance_> sql server is fucked, gonna reinstall this i'll be back on after im downloading and gonna do it from the cd because I think that the apt-get version is broken even PCMANFM Isn't working
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-03-28
<mrgoodcat> morning friends
<rick_h_> party TGIF
<mrgoodcat> biggby was on top of their shit this morning
<mrgoodcat> had my coffee already made when i walked in, and this was my 12th coffee so it was free :)
<rick_h_> sounds like you're having a good day :)
<mrgoodcat> so far not bad
<mrgoodcat> pretty good even measured against other fridays
<brousch> I'll be doing a lot of Django today, so it's a great day
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Heh. I got two coffees free this past weekend
<cmaloney> apparently I had one on my card, and I had a BOGO coupon.
<cmaloney> I'm surprised they honored it that way.
<rick_h_> nice
<mrgoodcat> biggby is pretty good about that
<mrgoodcat> do you get the email coupons?
<cmaloney> I get them on and off
<mrgoodcat> they can be used an infinite amount of times until they expire
<cmaloney> but the ones in the paper are usually the BOGO ones
<cmaloney> though I wish (I wiiiiish) they had a way to make those coupons go on your card
<cmaloney>  http://post.oreilly.com/form/oreilly/viewhtml/9z1zh0rj8bon98o5emtlh43e9uchr1g4mqvmml88aq0
<cmaloney> Clojure books
<jrwren> party party
<jrwren> clojure runs on JVM thus it is EVIL!!!
<jrwren> hrm... strange python
<rick_h_> heh
<jrwren> python pop quiz... what does this do?  http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/7168704/
<rick_h_> hah, set self to 1?
<rick_h_> A = 1?
<jrwren> yup
<jrwren> even though it is a named param
<jrwren> it kinda makes sense, but its weird.
<rick_h_> well but it's the default first arg in the method, where self would be
<rick_h_> I wonder if it still does that if you take out the default value in the def
<jrwren> right.
<jrwren> then I'd get "need 2 param, only 1 passed"
<jrwren> or whatever that error is
<rick_h_> right
<jrwren> TypeError: m() takes no arguments (2 given)
<jrwren> i had my numbers backward.
<jrwren> its jsut becaues I forgot self.
<jrwren> I guess I didn't know that this is how pythons named param impl works
<jrwren> it makes sense though.
<rick_h_> yea, you can actually pass values to named params without every passing them that way
<rick_h_> def fun(one, two, three=3)
<rick_h_> fun(1, 2, 3)
<rick_h_> and three = 3
<rick_h_> well, it does because it was passed that is
<jrwren> yup
<jrwren> its the inverse that I didn't know.
<jrwren> and I probably knew that.
<rick_h_> just don't think about it much
<rick_h_> not a usual thing to do
<jrwren> right.
<jrwren> mixed with the calling style of a instance method is what confused me.
<jrwren> because self gets passed as first param weither you name it self or not :)
<rick_h_> yep
<cmaloney> jrwren: That has tripped me up a few times.
<mrgoodcat> anybody used irssi proxy before?
<greg-g> I have to admit, I'm kind of excited that Facebook is going to use btrfs internally
<mrgoodcat> greg-g: it's the first major company i've heard to really buy in
<greg-g> As opposed to something like ZFS, because btr is included in the kernel
<mrgoodcat> zfs is cool but the linux implementation seems a bit hacky to me and there's weird licensing
<greg-g> yeah, stupid oracle
<greg-g> also, the mainline/upstream is no longer even open source under the weird license, afaict
<mrgoodcat> woah really?
<mrgoodcat> you mean the oracle implementation?
<greg-g> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZFS#History
<greg-g> moving wall, it looks like
<greg-g> I sure hope they'll work on documentation though
<mrgoodcat> irssi proxy is really pissing me off. i can't figure out what i'm doing wrong. my server $personal can tunnel to $public and connect to $private with irssi on $personal, and after that i can connect to the irssi proxy from my desktop, but it isn't actually proxying me to $private
<mrgoodcat> the worst part is i know i'm missing something easy
 * greg-g hasn't used irssi proxy
 * greg-g just uses irssi+screen
<rick_h_> irssi + tmux here
<greg-g> I was gonna call rick_h_ a hipster, but I can't remember if we say hipsters use the cool new thing or the old stable thing
<mrgoodcat> that's what i use
<mrgoodcat> but i want to be able to irc without ssh
<mrgoodcat> specifically so i can use it on my phone
<rick_h_> greg-g: I don't fit into the skinny jeans so I get to be outside of hipster law
<mrgoodcat> phone ssh clients suck inherently
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: juicessh ftw (though I do tend to use it on a tablet)
<mrgoodcat> greg-g: what is hipster about irssi+tmux?
<mrgoodcat> i ues juice
<mrgoodcat> that's currently how i ssh from phone
<greg-g> mrgoodcat: tmux vs screen
<greg-g> tmux is the new hotness, whereas screen is the old trusty
<mrgoodcat> got it
<mrgoodcat> i used to screen but now i tmux
<greg-g> but which one is hipster?!
<greg-g> hipsters all have the latest macbook...
<greg-g> but they also use typewriters at coffee shops
<greg-g> I DON"T KNOW WHAT TO DO
<mrgoodcat> lol
<rick_h_> greg-g: lol
<jrwren> imma laugh when facebook stops using btrfs. I'll bet its not as loud as an announce though.
<greg-g> jrwren: so you either A) just like it when corps pull out of FLOSS projects or B) dislike btrfs or C) something else :)
<greg-g> jrwren: also, did you see webscalesql?
<greg-g> one of our original dbas ("domas", volunteer mostly, also an original member of the Wikimedia Board) is now a dba at FB, and is always making fun of us for running maria
<jrwren> greg-g: C - i had very bad experience with btrfs
<jrwren> greg-g: i rolled my eyes in webscalesql direction.
<greg-g> :)
<brousch> I love Google Voice transcription http://pastebin.com/Em8pJQqZ
<brousch> I can go where to track my package?
<greg-g> "Calling with your delivery information. Yeah."
<greg-g> "The tracking number is 798. Your E 48. Yeah, 937. Bye. Yeah, 540 Yes"
<greg-g> brousch: the most expensive domain name ever!
<greg-g> this is great
<greg-g> thanks
<mrgoodcat> lol go to sex dot com to track your package
<Havenstance> afternoon
<Havenstance> mrgoodcat, so getting ready to deploy this server for real
<mrgoodcat> nice
<jrwren> rick_h_: unbound methods are removed from python3, what do i do?!?
<rick_h_> jrwren: example?
<jrwren> class A():
<jrwren>   def m(self): pass
<jrwren> A.m.im_class
<jrwren> in python2 that reutrns type A
<jrwren> in python3 A.m is just function.
<jrwren> it has no im_class
<jrwren> so how to get type A from A.m  in python 3 ?
<jrwren> and... worse still... how do handle it in a way that is python2 compat.
<jrwren> omfg... its gone.
<jrwren> python3k is fail.
<jrwren> stupid stupids.
<jrwren> still... there has got to be a way
<jrwren> http://legacy.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3155/
<jrwren> so I htink I get to if sys.version:
<jrwren> because even six doesn't handle this case.
<mrgoodcat> got irc bouncer working now FINALLY
<mrgoodcat> ended up using znc
<mrgoodcat> anybody ever use irccloud?
<brousch> A long time ago when it was new and free
<mrgoodcat> its still beta so they're at least trying to act like they're new
<brousch> That was back when chromebooks were a new thing
<mrgoodcat> chromebooks are kinda new still
<mrgoodcat> i wouldn't call them old yet for sure
<brousch> cr-48
<brousch> So 3 years ago
<mrgoodcat> yea i guess
<jrwren> whew, that was a mind bender.
<rick_h_> jrwren: man, no idea. Never messed with that.
<rick_h_> didn't know im_class existed tbh
<Havenstance> how in the fuck do i configure RAID1 on this thing man.... I'm about to bash my face off the desk... Zentyal going over ubuntu 13.10. I have 2 2tb drives i'd like to RAID1 as encrypted storage for SAMBA. then my main drive I want to be the boot drive. idk what the hell is going on this partitioner is driving me crazy keeps saying I have no swap space so i try to make swap space and it flags it saying its unsafe because
<Havenstance> its not encrypted. I can't add any swap space to the Raid config to make that be encrypted swap space... im at a loss here...
<mrgoodcat> woah
<Havenstance> im about to say screw it its friday
<Havenstance> so close to walking out lol
<mrgoodcat> i finish work in an hour :)
<Havenstance> it was going well until I added the damn drives
<Havenstance> good news
<Havenstance> I got what i was asking about figured out last night
<Havenstance> it was a corrupted install
<Havenstance> reinstalled from scratch and everything went perfect
<mrgoodcat> oh well that's good
<Havenstance> yeah, then today
<Havenstance> happened
<mrgoodcat> i was confused when you asked last night... i was like "mine has literally never done that"
<mrgoodcat> what are you trying to use to set up raid? md?
<Havenstance> started out got water in my headlights, blew a bulb shorted everything out including my ECM, some asshole in a fedex truck ran me off the road, got here they are bitching up front because their wires aren't in the right place. I'm so ready to just punch someone and walk out, oh and on top of it all my furnace just went out this morning.
<Havenstance> Yeah I started a bare ubuntu install thinking that might fix it
<Havenstance> yeah right....
<Havenstance> if I could just set up an encrypted install on the home drive. I'll let him think those storage drives are encrypted
<Havenstance> Don't really care anymore :)
<Havenstance> He's not smart enough to figure it out anyway.
<Havenstance> so after install is there a way to setup MD?
<Havenstance> wouldn't mind even putting the system on the MD RAid if I could figure out how to get the swap working
<jrwren> rick_h_: i was being stupid. i got hte equiv by not being stupid and going from implicit coupling to explicit coupling.
<jrwren> and 1 line of code instead of 15 lines
<mrgoodcat> woah long day
<mrgoodcat> sorry to hear that man
<jrwren> you don't need swap.
<Havenstance> its good, probably shouldn't have used that language either, I'm sorry guys
<jrwren> run without a swap partition, then apt-get install swapfile
<jrwren> done!
<mrgoodcat> OH DEAR GOD SOMEONE BURNT POPCORN PLEASE SEND HELP
<jrwren> dynamic swap, just like Mac and Windows
<Havenstance> quit it
<jrwren> why this is not hte default, I'll never know.
<Havenstance> That just made my day a little better lol
<Havenstance> i took out SDA which was an IDE drive im just going to run the system from the base RAID. Should be okay shouldn't it?
<Havenstance> I'd think on the RAID I at least have a mirror so if something breaks the worst I have to do is install Grub on the mirror
<Havenstance> idk this is one of those I don't care days I think
<Havenstance> so, network cables are a fire hazard guys....
<jrwren> you can even install grub on both drives so that if one fails the grub will already be there
<jrwren> yes, that is why you get plenum cable, or something.
<Havenstance> jrwren, sweet, I'm thinking this is a Monday project...
<Havenstance> yeah I was just told that a cluster of network cables has the potential to combust from the amount of electricity flowing through each cable
<Havenstance> same said woman complaining about the cords at the Point of sale up front
<jrwren> um, no.
<jrwren> that is just silly.
<Havenstance> lol yeah I know
<Havenstance> that was my point
<jrwren> but how would anyone know.
<jrwren> you could educate about voltage, current and such
<Havenstance> I said well considering that your entire computer is a 12v system it would be safe to assume that no one network cable carries more then 12 volts at any given time
<Havenstance> "your computer runs on 115 volts dumbass" "Infact its plugged into the wall"
<Havenstance> yup but that's why they call it switching power supplies
<Havenstance> idk this woman is hopeless
<Havenstance> <<<<<<<<<<<<-------- This guy has a date with Mr. Jack Daniels at 5pm sharp :)
<jrwren> you could refer her to the IEEE ethernet specification that says its a few volts and a few amps
<jrwren> i tried looking it up, but I failed.
<cmaloney> Frankly I'd forego irssi-proxy unless there's a specific use-case that isn't covered by tmux / screen and your client of choice.
<mrgoodcat> Havenstance: to be fair you're assuming nothing ever goes wrong with the PSU or anything like tht
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: i kinda had to
<jrwren> or someone accidentally plus something into POE
<Havenstance> yeah
<Havenstance> honestly I hope it proves me wrong and blows up in her face at this point... im tired of hearing the pity party
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: it has to do with our particular network configuration at school, but irssi/tmux is a bit of a pain sometimes
<mrgoodcat> Havenstance: go home and get a beer
<Havenstance> I already told her that if it was a problem she could move the wires
<Havenstance> mrgoodcat, yeah go home and fix the furnace you mean :)
<Havenstance> I gotta get that running before the pipes refreeze or it gets too cold for the baby
<jrwren> oh, even PoE is only 35W
<mrgoodcat> my pipes are frozen at my second house :(
<Havenstance> in theory there should be so few volts in a ethernet cable you could plug one end in and stick the other on your tounge and you'd be alright
<jrwren> Havenstance: even PoE?
<mrgoodcat> volts is not what is dangerous
<Havenstance> idk about POE but I'm talking the kind with the switches and stuff
<Havenstance> no the Amps are what get ya
<mrgoodcat> neither of you have taken any EE classes have you?
<jrwren> there are PoE switches.
<jrwren> I have.
<jrwren> that is why I said 35W
<jrwren> its all about CURRENT
<mrgoodcat> ahh didn't see watts
<mrgoodcat> was thinking volts
<mrgoodcat> ~friday eyes~
<jrwren> :)
<Havenstance> mrgoodcat, she said to me that there was 115 volts running thru an ethernet cable
<jrwren> time for 4th cup of coffee :)
<jrwren> you could kindly correct her.
<mrgoodcat> i'd certainly not put my toungue on a PoE cable no matter what someone told me
<Havenstance> jrwren, tried that
<jrwren> ah, fail.
<Havenstance> mrgoodcat, no i wouldnt either
<jrwren> nor me.
<jrwren> PoE is scary.
<Havenstance> but the kind we have are not POE they are standard ethernet
<mrgoodcat> i had a VoIP phone with PoE go bad once and it was scarier than i'd have thought
<mrgoodcat> nobody got hurt or anything but the phone let out the magic blue smoke that makes it work
<Havenstance> now I did convince her that computers run on magic smoke
<Havenstance> I figure forget it, if i cant stand her at least I can have some fun...
<Havenstance> my statement was "at this point the magic smoke is all I can hope for"
<Havenstance> screw this, im going home. ya'll have a good weekend
<Havenstance> idk when i'll be home im gonna stop by the tavern and have a few
<Havenstance> so may or may not be on from home tonight
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: also irccloud is way easier on a chromebook than ssh is
<brousch> Who's the WMU guy in here? http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2014/03/is_western_michigan_university.html
<brousch> ouch
<mrgoodcat> I'm not in the edu department but yea its a huge joke
<mrgoodcat> Engineers fail and go to business. Business students fail and go to education
<cmaloney> Honestly if you're going into teaching for the money I'd like to talk to you
<jrwren> hahaha.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-03-29
<jrwren> greg-g: what is this new policy?
<greg-g> jrwren: I assume you're referrign to my tweet: it's MS's promise they will stop looking at your emails without a warrant
<mrgoodcat> ms is gross
<tony-smlr> SMLR E122 LIVE Video: http://youtu.be/Pd2lYHKM9WQ - Audio http://live.smlr.us:8000/streaming (3/29/2014 7:30A EDT)
<cmaloney> Good morning
<jrwren> greg-g: yes, oh damn. i'm glad I don't use MS for email.
<cmaloney> How's the day so far?
<cmaloney> jrwren: I don't think you have anything to worry about unless you're leaking MS secrets
<cmaloney> then you just have the govt. to worry about. :)
<cmaloney> and law enforcement
<cmaloney> and some guy named Earl from accounts.
<cmaloney> but other than that...
<rick_h_> party
<greg-g> jrwren: and if you think it's any different at Google.... :P
<jrwren> greg-g: i run my own email server for a reason.
<jrwren> greg-g: i avoid google and apple and now msft products.
<jrwren> e.g. gmail is used ONLY for public email lists.
<jrwren> hrm.. i guess i don't avoid apple. i use an iphone
<cmaloney> I use Google products a lot
<cmaloney> Android Phone, Chrome Browser, Google+
<mrgoodcat> i use many google products
<cmaloney> But that's mostly because I find them to be the most level-headed of the corps out there
<cmaloney> and the one that stands to lose the most capital should they piss off the geeks out there.
<mrgoodcat> g+, music, movies, android, gmail, search
<mrgoodcat> chrome
<cmaloney> books
<mrgoodcat> oh yes that one too
<cmaloney> They've supplanted my Nook
<mrgoodcat> problem is i cant google book on my kindle, so i still use amazon for that too
<cmaloney> I never bought into Amazon
<cmaloney> I still prefer ePubs as they're portable between devices (for the most part)
<mrgoodcat> i use amazon books
<mrgoodcat> and i have amazon prime
<cmaloney> That and they didn't have PDF support when I was in the eBook market
<cmaloney> which is a huge detraction
<mrgoodcat> i make some concessions to use google and amazon both. privacy with google, walled garden with amazon
<cmaloney> It's quite difficult to lead a RMS-like lifestyle
<mrgoodcat> but the convenience afforded makes it worth it
<cmaloney> I find it slightly humorous that the Italian Word for "to seek" is "RICERCAR"
<jrwren> RMS doesn't have a cell phone.
<cmaloney> because that's not what I see when I see that word. :)
<mrgoodcat> yea, in order to go full RMS you have to give up a lot of modern conveniences
<cmaloney> Well, and most ebooks
<jrwren> there are not ebook readers for GNU linux anyway.
<mrgoodcat> self hosted email could never be as convenient as google. as much as i like the idea of self hosting
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: indeed. its MORE convenient :p
<mrgoodcat> i don't mean just the email
<mrgoodcat> the android and now integration is what gives it value
<mrgoodcat> and there aren't any open source webmail solutions as good as gmail
<jrwren> now is the ultimate in scary tracking
<mrgoodcat> roundcube is ok
<jrwren> yes, amazing how open source completely dropped the ball on webmail solutions eh?
<mrgoodcat> thunderbird is ok
<jrwren> i like thunderbird a lot.
<mrgoodcat> i host my own email at dyladan.me but i tend to use my gmail more
<mrgoodcat> my dog is barking at the dogs in game of thrones :)
<mrgoodcat> the surround sound is freaking her out
<greg-g> jrwren:  :)
<greg-g> jrwren: my only google hosted email is forced on me for work email, though I'm going to transition to our lightly used self-hosted imap server at WMF
<greg-g> (only a few opsen on it now, sounds like there might be a migration of most opsen soon, and I'll join that boat)
<jrwren> for privacy reasons, I'd rather suffer with our hosted exchange at work than move to google apps
<cmaloney> I'm not so sure that's a trade-off I could manage. :)
<Havenstance> well today's been a better day then yesterday by far :)
 * Havenstance kicks acl requirements for samba
<Havenstance> and the uss enterprise crashed....
<Havenstance> server just died a smoky death
<mrgoodcat> Havenstance: no way. The zentyal server?
<Havenstance> yeah it was my home version though
<Havenstance> I have another box i'll pull out of the closet tomorrow and hook up in its place
<Havenstance> the box i had it on here had been slowing down even with winblows
<Havenstance> wasn't sure what was going on, then it let out a squeal a small pop and lots & lots of smoke....
<Havenstance> I'll bbiaf, gotta go pick up the baby
<cmaloney> Should go out to the garage more often
<cmaloney> Found a copy of Neal Stepehnson's Anathem and the Apple Bluetooth Keyboard.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-03-30
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> morn
<jrwren> good morning
<rick_h_> code review code review everyone loves the code review
<jrwren> indeedee do
<jrwren> FINALLY got around to writing my per file gpg & upload to s3 script for backup
<mrgoodcat> gpg or pgp?
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: sorry i dropped the ball on that pull request. i had literally forgotten it existed
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: all good, it had a good feature I wanted landed so took it over a bit
<jrwren> gpg
<cmaloney> afternoon
<mrgoodcat> afternoon to you as well
<cmaloney> And another afternoon to you too. :)
<derekv> if mainly what I wanted to do was to boot some workstation diskless off a fileserver would ltsp be overkill?
<derekv> (actually i'm thinking booting from usb and mounting nfs is the most painless route but i'm curious)
<jrwren> nope, ltsp is never overkill.
<jrwren> ltsp is a great way to boot diskless anything - workstations or servers.
<jrwren> I once used ltsp to run a server compute cluster. I just disabled X on the nodes.
<jrwren> it worked great and ltsp bootstrapped the diskless network boot part
<cmaloney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ki7MI-Q37Ys
<cmaloney> So fucking excited that this is a thing.
<greg-g> Craig Maloney7 minutes ago
<greg-g> W0000000t!ï»¿
<greg-g> :)
<cmaloney> greg-g: Yep. :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-03-23
<cmaloney> Evemomg
<cmaloney> Evening, even
<gamerchick02> howdy
<gamerchick02> almost time for bed i think. sooooo tired.
<cmaloney> Heh
<cmaloney> Almost time for me to retrieve JoDee from outside with her telescope
<_stink_> it looked like an ideal night for that
<cmaloney> Yeah, ti is.
<cmaloney> She's trying to do some research for the AAVSO in the Orion constellation
<cmaloney> before it disappears into the neighbor's tree and "spring"
<_stink_> haha
<cmaloney> Morning
<rick_h_> morn
<brousch> GR Python is in The Blackwell this year
<cmaloney> brousch: Good deal
<cmaloney> It's the only way to fly honestly.
<cmaloney> Plus we can hang out in the bar
<brousch> I didn't mind Varsity Inn last time. Sprints being off-campus made it less annoying
<brousch> Tim Hortons was right there
<cmaloney> I think you missed this: "Plus we can hang out in the bar"
<brousch> Can we bring our own Michigan microbrews?
<cmaloney> I don't see why not
<SneakyPhil> PDF: http://legbacore.com/Research_files/HowManyMillionBIOSWouldYouLikeToInfect_Full2.pdf#73
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-03-24
<cmaloney> morn
<cmaloney> Quiet morning
<cmaloney> (at least in channel)
<cmaloney> I don't doubt that the day is anything but quiet. :)
 * cmaloney is listening to Anthrax - Gung-Ho
<_stink_> i started a pissing matching in my team by posting the results of 4 grep commands :)
<_stink_> s/matching/match
<cmaloney> _stink_: Did they say the results could be easily done in 3? :)
<_stink_> even better - it proved that we are not enforcing a casing style standard at all, and the language - yes really - is case insensitive
<_stink_> then people argued about whether we should care
<cmaloney> _stink_: Which language:/
<cmaloney> ?
<_stink_> Apex, the salesforce hosted code stuff
<cmaloney> Is there a coding standard?
<cmaloney> Also: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/918976465/omega-strip-wire-control-no-tools-no-tangles-no-tr
<cmaloney> There aren't enough circles of hell for me to condemn this
<_stink_> there is a non-canonical one derived from Java and the team can't agree to care about it.
 * rick_h_ steps away from the computer before exploding
<_stink_> yeah tell me about it.
<cmaloney> Then you need to put everything in hungarian notation until someone can agree on a standard.
<_stink_> hah yes.
<cmaloney> int_IntegerCounterInt
<cmaloney> int_IntegerCounterIteratorI
<_stink_> Factory?
<cmaloney> int_IntegerCounterIteratorIFactory
<_stink_> yes perfect
<brousch> I'm officially phabulous. Nexus 6 phabulous
<cmaloney> brousch: I wouldn't go around crowing about it. ;)
<cmaloney> Also: 649 for a phone? I thought you were religiously against spending money?
<brousch> I'm genuinely surprised it fits in my pocket
<brousch> Had to switch to verizon though :(
<cmaloney> I'll reiterate: I thought you were religiously against spending money?
<brousch> Also, work pays for my mobile phone and plan :P
<cmaloney> AlsoL: Why did you have to switch to Verizon?
<cmaloney> Ah, so it's a work phone
<brousch> We get reimbursed
<cmaloney> so it's a work phone
<brousch> Sure
<cmaloney> They'll have no compunctions about calling you on it.
<brousch> They never did
<cmaloney> Well, at least they're subsidizing it
<cmaloney> so no worries there
<brousch> I wasn't going to go this big, but everything is huge now. I realized that they all require 2 hands to use, so why not go really big?
<cmaloney> My biggest beef with Verizon is they're expensive and are second to Comcast for being evil
<cmaloney> Other than being neck-and-neck with Satan they're fab.
<brousch> My other internet is comcast!
<brousch> I'm a slave to 2 satans!
<cmaloney> Beelzebubba, as he's known
<brousch> Might as well switch to iOS and be done with it
<cmaloney> And move to Hell Michigan
<brousch> So evil greg_ does not want to be in the same room with me
<cmaloney> Damn, we lost greg didn't we?
<cmaloney> I think he's having colo issues though
<cmaloney> so not surprising
<brousch> cmaloney: Anyone else from Detroit going to PyOhio?
<cmaloney> JoDee
<cmaloney> Not sure of anyone from MichiPUG.
<cmaloney> Haven't been there in years. ;(
<brousch> The only good thing about Verizon is visiting the store gives me an excuse to get a good lunch. Pot Bellies yesterday and 5 guys today
<jrwren> brousch: as long as you are giving money to evil, can I have some? :)
<brousch> I didn't know you were evil. I thought you were just a bit grumpy
 * brousch Bings "How to get Sharepoint to talk to Oracle running on SCO" for the most evil search evar
<cmaloney> brousch: add "Using JDBC" and you're in the ballpark
<jrwren> brousch: oh man, i'm grumpy.
<jrwren> brousch: also, LOL @ "How to get Sharepoint to talk to Oracle running on SCO"
<mrgoodcat> heh
<mrgoodcat> brousch: how do you like the n6?
<mrgoodcat> i was thinking about getting one
<mrgoodcat> and cmaloney whats wrong with the kickstarter you posted? just because kickstarting a project based on a product that already exists? or something wrong with the way they actually do cable management?
<brousch> Nice so far, but haven't been able to use it yet really
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: The issue is it uses double-sided sticky tape (The foam kind) which (when removing) proves it was generated directly from Satan's asshole.
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> i thought it was funnier that they claim to have 'invented' corrugated plastic tubing for cable management
<cmaloney> Yeah, no kidding
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-03-25
<cmaloney> Can someone confirm something for me?
<cmaloney> https://screamingatthesun.bandcamp.com/track/singularity <- This band say they're not im the episode
<cmaloney> https://archive.org/details/OpenMetalcastEpisode114TheSpacesIn-Between <- 38:45
<_stink_> cmaloney: if you are asking for a quite literal sanity check, then yes, it is the same track
<_stink_> i have them playing on separate tabs staggered by about 9 seconds
<_stink_> it's pretty freaky
<cmaloney> _stink_: Yeah, I didn't think I was crazy
<cmaloney> but these guys insist I don't have their track in there
<_stink_> weird.
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> ugh morning
<cmaloney> That good eh?
<rick_h_> sick of 1.5mb uploads
<rick_h_> so called comcast business
<rick_h_> so feeling queasy now
<brousch> I love this phone
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Worried they'll fuck everything up?
<rick_h_> cmaloney: well just evil empire, lots of money, and last time I had comcast (when we first moved it) I tried to pay for more service but they couldn't deliver it
<rick_h_> but if they can get me 10mb up...I'll write the check
<brousch> They can deliver it between the hours of 2AM and 5AM.
<rick_h_> hah
<rick_h_> well I can schedule photo uploads then I guess
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Yeah, that's been my beef with my parent's DSL
<cmaloney> but for whatever reason my mom has it in her head that by changing their internet provider they'll somehow enable Obama to take their landline
<cmaloney> (don't ask)
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> well yea that's the nice thing at least
<rick_h_> no phone/tv service so it's just internet
<brousch> Dictator Obama can take it whenever he wants to.
<cmaloney> They have two phone lines into the house
<rick_h_> I'll keep paying netflix, amazon prime, and google voice for the rest of my stuff
<cmaloney> DSL is on another line
<cmaloney> and they're getting sub-ISDN speeds
<rick_h_> ugh
<rick_h_> yea, the uverse lady tried to talk me into getting two u-verse accounts and splitting traffic
<rick_h_> or going the isdn/etc route
<rick_h_> look, I'm not looking to get a partial t3 and spend $2000 a month
<cmaloney> Yeah, UVerse is all about the up-sell
<cmaloney> Comcast as well
<cmaloney> they don't quite get that all we care about is a fat pipe.
<cmaloney> or phat, depending on your inclination
<cmaloney> "Prime Pantry Launches Over 1000 New Items and Brands"
<cmaloney> This is not good
<cmaloney> Apparently Mono had an update.
<jrwren>  oh?
<cmaloney> Likely security
<cmaloney> Was looking at my updates this morning on my 12.04 desktop
<cmaloney> Pretty sure I'm not getting new features. ;)
<jrwren> cmaloney: lots of debs, or just 2 debs?
<cmaloney> Lots
<smoser> cmaloney, if i wanted to talk some at next mug, would there be some time ?
<smoser>  i need / want to practice / not wait till last minute for http://sched.co/2qeT
<cmaloney> smoser: What would you like to talk about?
<smoser> ^
<cmaloney> How much time are you looking for?
<smoser> 10 , 20 , 30 minutes ? not more than 30. as that would mean i'm *too* prepared . :)
<cmaloney> Heh
<cmaloney> OK, we can definitely use a second act.
<cmaloney> Just contacted our first act to see if he's able to present.
<cmaloney> Send board@mug.org an abstract / bio and we'll work it in. :)
<cmaloney> Thanks!
<cmaloney> (or we can use the helpfully provided info / bio. .;) )
<cmaloney> <- idjit.
<cscheib> when is MUG this year?
<cscheib> April again?
<brousch> MUG is each month!
<cscheib> oh crap, i haven't had my coffee yet
<cscheib> I saw mug and thought of penguicon for some reason
<cscheib> OK, coffee is made.  much better
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> Penguicon is in April. Last weekend iirc.
<cmaloney> Yep. 23-26
<cscheib> what're next month's topics?
<cmaloney> TBD, although one of them is Scott Moser telling us about how images are born. ;)
<cmaloney> Apparently vim is moving to github
<_stink_> nice!
<greg-g> from google code?
<cscheib> yes
<cscheib> and switching from mercurial to git
<cmaloney> and switching from VI bindings to emacs
<cmaloney> C-x C-s bay-bee
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-03-26
<cmaloney> Goo dmorning
<mrgoodcat> go odmorning
<mrgoodcat> apparently blackberry is making a new phone
<mrgoodcat> one last grab at some semblance of relevancy
<mrgoodcat> http://us.blackberry.com/smartphones/blackberry-passport/overview.html
<mrgoodcat> whoever designed that keyboard is probably fired now though
<cmaloney> Nah, I can see folks grooving on that keyboard
<cmaloney> though that phone looks ugly
<cmaloney> Honestly Blackberry will keep going until someone buys them and puts them out of their misery "Palm-style"
<cmaloney> All they need is for HP to clean out the couch cushions
<dzho> heh
<greg-g> I....
<greg-g> I.... have only one 30 minute meeting today?
<greg-g> I.... dont' know what to do with myself
<greg-g> I think I can do... wwww.... wwww.... work?
<cmaloney> greg-g: Quick: Schedule yourself a 2 hour meeting
<cmaloney> Riddle me this: what's the point of having four years into the future if you don't have data past today? http://www.wrcjfm.org/playlists-calendar/
<cmaloney> (also tried to contact them about picking up Kimiko Ishizaka's work)
<cmaloney> According to JoDee the UPS truck broke down in front of our house.
<cmaloney> Not sure what that means. :)
<mrgoodcat> free stuff
<cmaloney> heh
<brousch> Christmas in March!
<cscheib> any children born 9 months from now are the UPS guy's
<gamerchick02> hello party people
<cscheib> jrwren and jcastro are the only party people I know of in here, other than me
<jcastro> hah
<jcastro> cscheib, hey man, I got ahold of a dude who runs puppet belgium
<jcastro> and he wants to do some puppet/juju integration, want in on this?
<cscheib> jcastro: yes sir
<jcastro> ok, I'll CC you in
<gamerchick02> cscheib hello
<gamerchick02> i hang here... randomly... :)
<ADAG10> What's up, peeps.
<gamerchick02> what up ADAG10
<ADAG10> Just school. Yourself?
<gamerchick02> been a long day at work and i'm chilling. was thinking of putting cinnamon on ubuntu but now i'm not sure
<gamerchick02> anyone else try it? i did awhile ago but i'm adverse to random PPAs right now
<ADAG10> Cinnamon on anything other than Mint, I haven't tried yet. I tend to stick with i3.
<gamerchick02> how is i3? i've never tried it
<ADAG10> The fucking best, if you're a keyboard maniac like me.
<gamerchick02> i'm using unity right now and i do admit that i like it
<ADAG10> gamerchick02: http://i3wm.org/
<gamerchick02> thankee
<ADAG10> Unity has its pros and cons. It'll always be better than GNOME 3, anyway.
<gamerchick02> oh yeah
<gamerchick02> i tried
<gamerchick02> Gnome 3
<gamerchick02> hah. hahahahaha
<gamerchick02> yeah. it worked like no for me
<cscheib> GNOME, jcastro should be interested in that
<jcastro> I tried the last release last night
<ADAG10> That sounds like my reaction, gamerchick02
<jcastro> it's notbadobama
<cscheib> fucking unity.
<gamerchick02> that's neat though
<gamerchick02> dang, keyboard usage ahoy!
<gamerchick02> i do admit that i use the mouse plenty...
<ADAG10> As do I when I'm on Windows, but when I can help it (or I'm not gaming) I keep the two hands where they belong.
<ADAG10> Christ, that could be better-phrased.
<gamerchick02> *snerk*
<gamerchick02> *SNERK SNERK*
<cscheib> I repeal my curse words.
<gamerchick02> sorry
<gamerchick02> your hands belong on the home row, right?
<ADAG10> Phhrt, I don't do that. It feels too cramped.
<ADAG10> I insist on using arrow keys on vim for this reason
<gamerchick02> ah!
<gamerchick02> vanilla unity here
<gamerchick02> i changed the background!
<gamerchick02> :-P
<gamerchick02> also one thing i forgot that i loved about Ubuntu... i can pick "restart later" when i get an update. you can't do that all the time in windows
<ADAG10> Heh! Noice.
<ADAG10> Oh, man, Windows is a real pest about that
<gamerchick02> yeah i checked updates on my desktop last night and everything was fine but then it was like "reboot NOW"
<ADAG10> I once got kicked out of "Borderlands 2" and saw the "Restarting..." screen seconds later
<ADAG10> mfw
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-03-27
<gamerchick02> :-O
<gamerchick02> :(
<ADAG10> Yeah, that was annoying
<gamerchick02> no kidding
<cscheib> unity made me realize XFCE was awesome.
<ADAG10> Xfce is great.
<gamerchick02> hee. i do like XFCE too
<ADAG10> As is LXDE.
<gamerchick02> everything except Gnome3. and KDE is just too confusing for me
<cscheib> does even SUSE do KDE by default any more?
<gamerchick02> i think you download a massive like 5 gb iso and pick
<gamerchick02> or you have to pick what desktop you want when you download it
<cscheib> I haven't ever even installed SLES or SLED since those designations existed
<gamerchick02> i've never tried them.
<cscheib> I've only ever run Ubuntu, RHEL, or CentOS since Ubuntu was first released
<gamerchick02> nice
<cmaloney> evening
<gamerchick02> evening cmaloney
<gamerchick02> and with that i'm about to head to bed.
<gamerchick02> sorry. i'm tired.
<cmaloney> MOrning
<cmaloney> Yeah, I was tired as well
 * cmaloney loves that his login script is called "morning"
<brousch> Any of you east siders experience this? https://www.reddit.com/r/Michigan/comments/30hjsi/loud_aircraft_noise_that_wasnt_an_air_craft/
<cmaloney> I'd love to know why my reddit no longer supports https
<cmaloney> I think I heard something like that
<_stink_> brousch: i heard it
<_stink_> right around that time
<brousch> freakish
<cmaloney> I dismissed it as somthing heading to selfridge
<cmaloney> but I was in the can so couldn't get a visual
<_stink_> yeah i assumed it was selfridge too
<brousch> Or maybe you caused it with your ... canning
<_stink_> i heard maybe 2 or 3 waves of it
<cmaloney> YYEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH
<jrwren> http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2015/03/27/air-national-guard-training-over-metro-detroit/
<cmaloney> According to a post on the Wingâs Facebook page, the jest are conducting an exercise over Flint, Detroit and northwest Ohio.
<cmaloney> Glad to hear we're being protected in jest.
<cmaloney> ;)
<greg-g> https://github.com/WhiteHouse/https
<greg-g> interesting
<_stink_> huh
<cmaloney> What the hell is this? Govt. actually caring what people think about technology issues?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-03-28
<derekv> will Schneier attend the key signing party?
<_stink_> oo
<_stink_> that would be a prize.
<cmaloney> jrwren: Thinking I should have bought an Amiga back in the day rather than the HDD upgrade for my Atari 8-bit.
<cmaloney> but I never would have come to that conclusion back in the day. :)
<cscheib> cmaloney: that's a lot of years of regret to come to terms with
<_stink_> haha
<gamerchick02> hey has anyone in here tried Mate?
<gamerchick02> Ubuntu Mate is now an official version for the 15.04 release, so that's cool. i'm thinking of giving it a try
<cmaloney> cscheib: Yeah, I'm a slow learner.
<gamerchick02> cmaloney, about what?
<gamerchick02> you're a smart dude...
<cmaloney> gamerchick02: "Thinking I should have bought an Amiga back in the day rather than the HDD upgrade for my Atari 8-bit."
<cmaloney> gamerchick02: "but I never would have come to that conclusion back in the day. :)"
<gamerchick02> hah, ok yes
<cmaloney> Posted earlier
<gamerchick02> sorry i just popped online. was in Flint most of the afternoon
<cmaloney> Yeah, no worries.
<cmaloney> Just playing with an Amiga emulator and realizing a) it was the spiritual successor to the 8-Bit machines that I kept going for 15 years
<gamerchick02> cool!
<cscheib> flint, sounds like a violent afternoon
<gamerchick02> no we were at the Lady's Oriental Shrine installation. it was very nice.
<gamerchick02> and it was actually really safe downtown. i dunno. i felt fine. it's over by Halo Burger and Greater Flint Arts Council on Saginaw Rd.
<cscheib> haven't really been back to Flint since I became a college dropout in 05 (go Kettering)... Halo Burger sounds pretty tasty right now.
<gamerchick02> dude. i'm a graduate of Kettering
<gamerchick02> A or B section?
<cscheib> B
<gamerchick02> ah.
<gamerchick02> i was A
<gamerchick02> CompSci?
<cscheib> CompEng
<cmaloney> At least it wasn't a C section.
<gamerchick02> LOL you're funny cmaloney
<gamerchick02> :-P
<cmaloney> That just yanks the degree right out of ya.
<gamerchick02> you'll be here all week, try the fish, right?
<cmaloney> Nah, the fish sucks
<cscheib> good school, I just don't get along well with traditional education
<gamerchick02> fish is good.
<gamerchick02> traditional education isn't for everyone
<gamerchick02> it is for me sort of. i dunno. i've been thinking of going back and getting a masters in mechanical engineering
<gamerchick02> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2259859 this is cool. Mate is resurrecting PPC hardware
<gamerchick02> and it works on an Amiga one X1000
<gamerchick02> apparently
<gamerchick02> i'm thinking of giving Mate a go. it looks neat. i like unity well enough but i guess i want something different. and since i keep everything for ubuntu in dropbox, i'll be able to install that on ubuntu mate and have most all the things i need. so that's cool
 * derekv plays with impress.js because just because
 * derekv *evil laugh* 
<derekv> 3d <video> tags
<gamerchick02> new irc program...
<jrwren> cmaloney: you got that A1000 running?
<jrwren> cmaloney: you definitely should have. A1000 was an awesome machine.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-03-29
<jrwren> https://twitter.com/whatsthebigit/status/581864851846209536
<gamerchick02> OMG floppy disks!
<cmaloney> jrwren: Yeah, it runs, though the mouse needs some love.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-03-28
<cmaloney> Amazon delivery, right?
<cmaloney> I think they're the only ones that get the Sunday delivery
<jrwren> yes. I don't know how they managed to get USPS to do that.
<cmaloney> Money
<cmaloney> boats full of money
<cmaloney> https://hemmingsson.wordpress.com/2007/04/19/101-reasons-why-skinny-puppy-fanatics-are-unpopular/ <- for jrwren
<jrwren> lol.
<jrwren> cmaloney: this list is so true!
<cmaloney> heh
<cscheib> jrwren: I also had an AMZN Easter delivery
<cmaloney> morning
<cscheib> mornin
<cmaloney> morning and all that. :)
<cscheib> if anyone wants to come work for me, I've got a Linux sysadmin/engineer position opening up at North American Bancard in Troy.  We've also got positions open in Windows and Network Engineering.
<jrwren> cscheib: you moved to nabancard?!?
<cscheib> yup
<jrwren> cscheib: I hadn't heard. Congrats!
<cscheib> thanks
<jrwren> cscheib: have you met Bob Branch?
<cscheib> Linyx Systems Engineering manager
<cscheib> Linux even
<cscheib> no, I don't think Bob's there currently
<jrwren> oh, he must have moved on. I've known lots of people who have moved on from there ;]
<cscheib> yea, I think everyone does
<cscheib> they've gone through a round of cleaning house/revolving door, and are in a transformation phase... so a lot of opportunity to get hands dirty
<cscheib> I have heard that name before, somewhere
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-03-29
<cmaloney> Evening
<rick_h_> party
<_stink_> yes
<cmaloney> rock
<cmaloney> morning
<_stink_> hello
<cmaloney> how goes?
<_stink_> trying ot get the boring crap done so i can do something fun
<_stink_> you?
<cmaloney> same
<greg-g> "work"
<cmaloney> work work work
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-03-30
<jcastro> jrwren: are you frantically reinstalling windows on all your machines now?
<cmaloney> ?
<cmaloney> Ubuntu Release?
<jcastro> cmaloney: MS just announced that you can run ubuntu userspace in windows
<jcastro> you hit the start button, type bash, hit enter
<cmaloney> Yeah, that's what I was referring
<jcastro> reverse WINE basically
<jcastro> and since we know jrwren is windows fan #1
<cmaloney> So basically Cygwin
<jcastro> cygwin is a recompile
<jcastro> what they do is translate linux syscalls to the windows kernel
<jcastro> so it's the exact same binary
<cmaloney> Interesting
<jcastro> indeed
<cmaloney> So what's the catch? :)
<jcastro> none really
<jcastro> it's for windows developers that want real linux tools
<jrwren> jcastro: hell no.
<jrwren> if this had happend 5 yrs ago, I'd have loved it. Now it is late, and maybe a bit desparate.
<jrwren> Its amazing that they did it right though. Add elf support to windows, make that syscall translator, and use ubuntu. WOW!
<jcastro> I think being able to tell old-jrwren style folks "just go to the windows store and install ubuntu" is like ... !!!!!
<jrwren> +1
<jrwren> me from five years ago would have !!!!!   and I know a lot of mes from five years ago are still out there.
<jcastro> yeah
<jrwren> Still using Visual Studio, and still doing weird things to get cmdline tools on windows
<jcastro> a star trek plot involving you going back in time to tell yourself this seems more realistic than this announcement, heh
<jrwren> hahaha! true!
<cmaloney> http://openmetalcast.com/2016/03/30/open-metalcast-episode-126-good-looking-music/
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-03-31
<shakes808> Good evening all!  How are you doing?
<shakes808> rick_h_ or cmaloney: hey guys, question about the chc website.  Who is the owner?
<cmaloney> NFC
<rick_h_> waf1: is that wil?
<shakes808> ??? NFC ???
<cmaloney> Yeah, that's wil
<cmaloney> THough I don't know who runs the root chc site
<rick_h_> yea, so waf1 is the owner
<rick_h_> it's on google code hosting thingy, or was last I knew
<shakes808> Thank you guys.
<shakes808> waf1: how are you doing tonight?
<cmaloney> I think he's in thailand. :)
<cmaloney> so not sure if it's still "tonight" over there. :)
<shakes808> HAHA, gotcha
<shakes808> is there another way to get a hold of him?  email address?
<cmaloney> Not sure
<shakes808> do you know how to add a new page? Or do we need Wil?
<shakes808> :| laptop unplugged.  :(
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> So, anyone want to present Ubuntu on Windows for a future MUG Meeting? :)
<cmaloney> jcastro?
<wolfger> Ubuntu on Windows?
<wolfger> I heard bash on Windows, is that what you're talking about?
<mrgoodcat> yes
<mrgoodcat> well likely
<mrgoodcat> i can't speak for cmaloney
<mrgoodcat> its super interesting though
<mrgoodcat> the idea of a windows subsytem with ABI compatibility for linux ELF executables
<cmaloney> Yeah, that's what I'm talking about
<cmaloney> https://github.com/edreamleo/python-to-coffeescript
<mrgoodcat> python-to-coffeescript-to-es6-to-es5-to-asmjs-to-webassembly
<cmaloney> heh
<jcastro> cmaloney: in the fall maybe? I don't think it's available yet
<cmaloney> Now now now now now. ;)
<cmaloney> When is it supposed to be available?
<jcastro> they said "a few weeks"
<jcastro> but didn't really commit to a date
<cmaloney> so is that a beta in a few weeks?
 * cmaloney apparently doesn't want to read press releases. ;)
<jrwren> not much to present either. its a standard ubuntu image ;]
<cmaloney> Heh
<jrwren> cmaloney: if you really want details, I just retweeted a post by @katco_ with a link to video which goes pretty good into details.
<cmaloney> jrwren: Not seeing the tweer
<cmaloney> tweet
<cmaloney> Oh, yay... Twitter's Web INterface is goofed up.
<cmaloney> jrwren: Thanks. Downloading the video.
<cmaloney> I'm sure this will come up at MUG so someone should have some info on it. ;)
<cmaloney> it's not every day the seas part and hell freezes over.
<jrwren> indeed.
<jcastro> yeah, it will come as a windows 10 update at some point
<jcastro> from watching the videos they've said "a few weeks" and it for sure is going to be part of the summer update
<jcastro> so I would assume beta in a few weeks, with final in the summer
<jrwren> someone said as soon as a few days, if you are a windows insider and on the fast right or something?
<hpucks> so this is just going to be a bash shell in Win10?
<hpucks> sort of Cygwinish.
<jrwren> its ubuntu, the exactly same root tarball as cloud images used in all the public clouds.
<jrwren> cygwin recompiles everything to windows CEOFF binaries.
<hpucks> huh.  interesting.
<hpucks> I have a Win10 partition but I barely boot into it anymore.  Usually just go straight to Ubuntu.  Might be something interesting to play with but not all that useful for me since I spend the majority of my time in Ubuntu anyhow.
<jrwren> yup.
<jrwren> its primarily a developer tool. They are really targetting the ruby, python, nodejs programmers who struggle to get things to work on windows.
<jrwren> There is a giant group of dev (I used to be one) who like to use tools in windows, but also target those platforms.
<cmaloney> Yeah, this is not for the Ubuntu / Linux faithful
<cmaloney> more for those who are stuck between both worlds.
<jrwren> esp corporate types who are forced to run windows
<cmaloney> Yeah, I was thinking that this morning
<cmaloney> although it's for corp types that allow external software loads.
<hpucks> ^
<cmaloney> but if MS is providing it then there's an air of authority
<jrwren> yup :[
<hpucks> Yeah, we aren't allowed to load anything on our laptops here.
<cmaloney> I'm hoping it's more of a bridge for folks to target so Linux games continue to show up but with less friction
<cmaloney> Though who wants to bet this will be utilized as some sort of cross-platform malware delivery system if it's installed by default? :)
<jrwren> msft just open sourced the closed source parts of xamarin
<cmaloney> Nardelli took the right bits from Sun Microsystems
<jrwren> WAT?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-04-01
<waf1> shakes808 left? rick_h_ cmaloney for http://royaloak.coffeehousecoders.com/ , it's a gh-pages served by https://github.com/coffeehousecoders/royaloak.coffeehousecoders.com
<cmaloney> waf: Thanks!
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> morning
<_stink_> yo
<greg-g> telnet telnet.wmflabs.org
<greg-g> seriously
<jrwren> can I netcat 23 insted?
<jrwren> omg greg-g this is awesome.
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2016-03-30/Technology_report
<_stink_> greg-g: this is crazy!
<greg-g> :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-04-02
<Dekkard> oy kiddies
<rick_h_> party
<cmaloney> Evening
<cmaloney> playing Civ V with JoDee
<rick_h_> hah, good stuff
<cmaloney> Yeah, JoDee pretty much said "We're playing Civ V tonight"
<cmaloney> and we are.
<_stink_> jealous
<cmaloney> Maybe we can set something up one of these nights.
<brousch> Fucking snow
<rick_h_> brousch: +1
<rick_h_> i want to go camping and fishing and tge ground now has white stuff on it
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-04-03
<cmaloney> Evening
<cmaloney> trying to migrate over to Ubuntu 14.04. ;)
<cmaloney> Now playing with mail servers. Woo woo.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-03-27
<cmaloney> morning
<cmaloney> http://openmetalcast.com/2017/03/26/open-metalcast-special-episode-club-metal-18/
<rick_h> woot cmaloney
<brousch__> https://memegen.link/doge/much-openmetal/so-prolific.jpg?share=true
<cmaloney> brousch__: ;)
<cmaloney> http://openmetalcast.com/2017/03/27/open-metalcast-episode-151-keep-away-from-open-flame/
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-03-28
<shakes808> good evening everyone, wanted to know if anyone is doing JAVA dev and what IDEs you are using?
<mrgoodcat> does android dev in android studio count?
<shakes808> haha, I got that, but looking to do JAVA web dev with a buddy.
<shakes808> mrgoodcat: I am going to try a little bit of the Android dev too.  Might as well since I am going to dabble in the JAVA anyways :)
<mrgoodcat> java web dev
<mrgoodcat> bless your soul
<mrgoodcat> using spark?
<shakes808> mrgoodcat: http://spark.apache.org/
<shakes808> this ?
<mrgoodcat> yeap
<mrgoodcat> wait no
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> http://sparkjava.com/
<mrgoodcat> that
<shakes808> mrgoodcat: this looks like a framework rather than an IDE
<jrwren> there is only JetBrains IDEA as an IDE
<jrwren> using eclipse is wrong, don't do it.
<jrwren> using netbeans is wrong, don't do it.
<shakes808> jrwren: Thank you, I was looking at that, but in order for me to use that, I need to pay the yearly / monthly fee :(  I wouldn't mind paying that if I was making money on my projects ( maybe in the future, but just starting out )
<shakes808> jrwen: The CE doesn't support the things that I would need: https://www.jetbrains.com/idea/features/#choose-your-edition
<shakes808> I am going to be using Spring framework and that requires the ultimate edition, by this chart I won't have access to it
<jrwren> then use vim.
<jrwren> or emacs.
<jrwren> those are the only 3 choices in my bizaro world.
<shakes808> but vi(m) or emacs aren't going to have the intellisense that this noob needs :(
<shakes808> or do they have that now?
<jrwren> they do!
<jrwren> not sure how great the java is, but you'll at least get symbol support.
<jrwren> yup... got it: https://github.com/vim-scripts/javacomplete
<shakes808> hmm.  might look at that.
<shakes808> might try out vim and eclipse
<shakes808> looks like eclipse has a few web ides out there too
<mrgoodcat> shakes808: yes it is a framework. I was asking if you were using the framework, not suggesting an IDE
<shakes808> mrgoodcat: oh, sorry. no we are going to be using spring
<cmaloney> i wanted tonlike netbeans, but everything required eclipse
<cmaloney> and that was when i decided that java web dev was not for mr
<cmaloney> me
<shakes808> I think I am going to try the intellij's 30 day free trial, and then move to eclipse.  If I truely think that I need intellij after that, then I will pay for it, :|
<shakes808> but if i can do everything in eclipse after that, then free it is :)
<cmaloney> blergh
<shakes808> but on that note, have a good night.
<cmaloney> night!
<cmaloney> morning
<_stink_> yo
<rick_h> morning and such
<widox> morning
<greg-g> yawn
<rick_h> +1
<cmaloney> Understandable
<ColonelPanic001> oh god
<ColonelPanic001> eclipse
<rick_h> doh, time to run
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-03-29
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h> was going to say afternoon but guess it's still morning for a bit
<rick_h> wheeee
<brousch__> rick_h: We don't need to know about your bathroom breaks.
<cmaloney> Yeah, just a bit
<cmaloney> rick_h: Ouch re: everyone hanging out on your mifi. ;)
<cmaloney> als: fuck you Verizon. :)
<jrwren> lol... in years of reading wheeee... I NEVER thought about it that way.
<jrwren> thanks brousch__
<jrwren> i'm ruined.
<brousch__> That's my specialty
<rick_h> brousch__: :P
<rick_h> cmaloney: yea, my wife gets to work and calls on her way back home this morning "the internet is out can I take the mifi"
<rick_h> sure...then it's "how many people can use this thing?" text
<cmaloney> heh
<rick_h> and then it's "thank you, 9 people using it for work today"
<brousch__> Doh
<rick_h> what's funny is I guess a cisco router died and the new one is a different version of their OS so they need a support person to help with it so it's going to be out a long time
<brousch__> At least it's not MS patch day
<rick_h> office is some 12 docs, plus assistants/etc. a bunch of people. Probably 40+people shut down :/
<brousch__> A good test of part of their disaster recovery plan
<jrwren> cisco is never a good idea, IMO
<rick_h> well I'm surprised. Seems like you don't want to go cisco unless you've got cisco brains in house
<rick_h> and their IT guy is kind of an office person that knows enough tech to be dangerous
<jrwren> very true.
<brousch__> Yeah, cisco is annoying for the generalist IT guy
<rick_h> I played with it once and it's a whole OS that you have to learn.
<jrwren> that is why you outsource that stuff to a cisco certified shop. Then it is an OK idea. A kind of necessary evil.
<jrwren> cisco ios isn't that bad
<jrwren> its pretty easy to read the docs and do stuff
<rick_h> but it's different enough that doing anything on the fly (like when stuff goes boom) isn't going to be quick/easy
<jrwren> the annoying part is licensing restrictions and some hardware can't do certain features of teh OS
<brousch__> The fact that you need to read docs sucks
<rick_h> heh, yea
<jrwren> or can't do it unless you buy an expensive license and isntall the license on teh ahrdware.
<brousch__> 40 people is a router and a switch
<jrwren> I love reading docs and making things work. *shrug*
<brousch__> A small shop like that doesn't gain anything by going cisco. They end up with an overly complicated piece of equipment and a dependence on outside contracting to do anything with it.
<jrwren> or... they DO gain things, because the network needs for that business are just complex enough that their little IT guy can't manage it.
<jrwren> It can go both ways.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-03-30
<cmaloney> morning / are we having fun yet?
<hpucks> No
<cmaloney> Glad we're in agreement. :)
<brousch__> Yes
<brousch__> I forgot my wallet so I thought I was SOL for lunch. Then I remembered Apply Pay
<brousch__> Apple, damnit
<cmaloney> Yeah, Android Pay is awesome
<brousch__> I accidentally paid with it one time at Meijer. I was checking my phone at the checkout and it popped up. I pressed the button to return to hame screen and it accepted my thumbprint. Payment accepted
<rick_h> rocket rocket rocket!
<gamerchick02> space space space
<gamerchick02> ??
<rick_h> WOOOOOOOOOOO!
<rick_h> they did it!
<gamerchick02> who did what?
<gamerchick02> i've not been paying attention to the news...
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-04-01
<cmaloney> afternoon
<_stink_> yo
<jrwren> NCAA Gymnastics regionals... LETS GO!!!
<cmaloney> woo woo
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-04-02
<rick_h> morning
<cmaloney> morning
<cmaloney> how's the day so far?
<cmaloney> From the spam files: kindly advise which seafood product do you  offer?
<_stink_> haha
<jrwren> so good.
<jrwren> got lilly a really nice bike for her birthday.
<jrwren> <3 craigslist.
<jrwren> bike looks brand new. Seller said that his son only ride it 3 times.
<jrwren> Soooo happy to get a bike at half price.
<jrwren> and the kid loves it.
<cmaloney> nice!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-03-26
<Scary_Guy> morning
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h_> morning
<cmaloney> Colds suck
<Scary_Guy> out sick today or working through it?
<cmaloney> Working through it
<Scary_Guy> that sucks
<Scary_Guy> but at least you're well enough to go in
<rick_h_> hope you feel better cmaloney
<Scary_Guy> oh yeah, what he said too
<waldo323> I hope you feel better cmaloney
<cmaloney> Thank you. :)
<jrwren> anyone who is looking for colo hosting, esp not trusting of shared cloud resources: https://endoffice.com  does rpi colo for $7/mo.
 * rick_h_ remembers those days of colo and his own 1U racak in there
<greg-g> memmmmories
<greg-g> I miss when I had a shell account on a server in Joi Ito's lab in Japan. Crappy ping but unmetered 1gig NIC barely used by other users.
<rick_h_> hah
<rick_h_> yea, bandwidth ftw
<cmaloney> nice
<jrwren> yup, the "free" 1U we've used for 10+yrs is finally proving itself unworkable, so we are seeking other accomodations.
<jrwren> I'm reading Let My People Go Surfing, an excellent book, i highly recommend, and being curious, I looked to see if Patagonia has any job openings, and there is an IT opening. If i wanted to move to Ventura, CA, then I'd be chomping at that.
<greg-g> too close to LA for me
<jrwren> but seems like a sweet little town.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-03-27
<rick_h_> jrwren: it'll totally be open one day... *wink wink*
<cmaloney> ?
<rick_h_> cmaloney: replying to twitter
<rick_h_> sometimes when I'm snarky I just drop it here vs publicly online lol
<cmaloney> context is awesome. Let's do more of that. ;)
<rick_h_> picky picky
<cmaloney> That's me, picky picky
<jrwren> oh, lol, even I missed the context on that one.
<jrwren> I do like this as a non-public twitter back chat.
<greg-g> oh, I should stop my auto-irc-to-twitter posting bot?
<rick_h_> hah
<rick_h_> my bad, too early in the morning I kicked off the IRC day in a bad way
<cmaloney> Nah, that's fine
<cmaloney> At least there's activity in the channel. That's a good thing. (TM)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-03-28
<jrwren> User INterface Freeze? I don't remember these in years past.
<cmaloney> for 18.04?
<cmaloney> or something else?
<hpucks> Wouldn't surprise me.  This is the first LTS release without Unity in what?  Five years?  Something like that.
<Scary_Guy> good, now if we can just get rid of gnome and KDE that would be amazing
<Scary_Guy> small DE's FTW
<Scary_Guy> unless we're talking about VR, then sure make it pretty
<hpucks> I've been using 17.10 with gnome, I don't hate it.  Seems like they tried to recreate the functionality of Unity in Gnome.
<jrwren> yes, 18.04 did User Interface Freeze, I just don't remember it in yeras passed.
<Scary_Guy> exactly, that's why they made MATE, because they hated what Gnome became
<jrwren> I hate any UI which removed the menu. Hiding it, as is hte case for web browsers is an acceptable alternative.
<jrwren> `File Edit View Window Help` is such a well known UI, it is inexcusable to throw it away without strong justification.
<Scary_Guy> I think a lot of people want to part from that because it seems antiquated to them and they want to "revolutionise the UX" or some crap
<jrwren> That is fine. Let them, as long as they know that they are experimenting in UX
<Scary_Guy> the menu is like it is because it works.  fine make it dynamic like Apple but at least leave it in there
<jrwren> when gnome.org claims, "An easy and elegant way to use your computer, GNOME 3 is designed to put you in control and get things done."  and then ignores 30 yrs of UI and throws familiarity out the window, they should admit their hypocracy.
<Scary_Guy> that and everything is a bloated memory hog too.  https://l3net.wordpress.com/2013/03/17/a-memory-comparison-of-light-linux-desktops/
<Scary_Guy> although that is a bit out of date now
<jrwren> i love how e17 is listed. e used to be the most bloated.
<jrwren> that article you linked uses "free" to measure ram before and after. That is rather pointless.
<jrwren> unused ram is wasted ram.
<jrwren> linux bufcache and mmap make "free" a useless tool for this type of analysis.
<jrwren> All numbers in that article should be ignored.
<Scary_Guy> https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/slackware-14/linux-distros-ram-consumption-comparison-4175609369/ this one is more up to date
<jrwren> again using free output. not very useful.
<jrwren> yay, people in that thread saying the same thing.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-03-29
<cmaloney> morning
<jrwren> Good morning
<Scary_Guy> Great morning, lovely day today.
<Scary_Guy> Warm and overcast with the sun not in my eyes
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-03-30
<waldo323> good morning
<rick_h_> morning
<Scary_Guy> morning
<jrwren> Good morning.
<jrwren> Happy Friday.
<rick_h_> or, unhappy friday (puking kid)
<_stink_> :(
<rick_h_> yea, can't wait to kick off a 12 hour drive to VA later today with him lol
<jrwren> ewe, poor kiddo.
<jrwren> is it spring break there?
<jrwren> oh, next week?
<rick_h_> yea, first day is today
<rick_h_> he has friday -> next week
<jrwren> ugh, what a terrible start.
<rick_h_> so we're heading down, wife and I took half days to hopefully get down to PA and crash there
<rick_h_> yea, no kidding.
<jrwren> our spring break is just finishing. back to school on monday
 * rick_h_ is grumpy about the timing
<rick_h_> ah ok
<jrwren> its life. Life is suffering.
<rick_h_> cool, I was nervous about a mad dash of folks heading south on the roads today
<rick_h_> maybe it won't be so bad if the breaks are staggered
<jrwren> rick_h_: lol... i just got my first fountain pen :)
<Scary_Guy> I think you mean good Friday rick_h_ :p  Also sorry to hear about your kid.  I hope it isn't that bug that's been going around.  Put two of my friends in urgent care :(
<rick_h_> jrwren: oooh, what did you get? I love mine
<rick_h_> Scary_Guy: bummer
<rick_h_> Scary_Guy: yea, I forget about good friday, I guess that's today with spring break next week
<rick_h_> I forget because good friday isn't a federal holiday
<Scary_Guy> yeah, and I hung out with one Tuesday and another one this morning.  I don't generally get sick though and I've had my shot but I guess this is a different strain.  still I'm not too worried
<Scary_Guy> it isn't?  one of my friends works for Chrystler and she's getting holiday pay
<jrwren> rick_h_: oh, the absolute entry level Pilot
<jrwren> rick_h_: nothing fancy at all. Just something ot have and use day to day.
<jrwren> I like it, but I'm still getting learning to use it.
<rick_h_> jrwren: cool, yea I fell down the rabbit hole. I've got 7 or 8 inks, handful of pens, different sizes/etc
<rick_h_> jrwren: the lamy ones are nice cheap little daily drivers that folks can borrow and such
<rick_h_> that's the only one I have that takes the inserts
<jrwren> yeah! I was happy about the inserts TBH, becuase I didn't want to mess with the ink.
<jrwren> those cartriges make it very nice and easy.
<rick_h_> yea, works well
<rick_h_> Rocket launch time https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mp0TW8vkCLg
<jrwren> SpaceX is cool.
<jrwren> another launch successful so far.
<Scary_Guy> I can't wait until they stop doing these, because it's become that ubiquitous and mundane since it's a part of daily life
<Scary_Guy> I mean they don't video every airplane takeoff/landing
<jrwren> the 9min blackout is because of aliens.
<jrwren> Scary_Guy: there is nothing ubiquitous or mundane about the reuse being done by spacex.
<Scary_Guy>  I like how two different people on two different networks mentioned this too
<Scary_Guy> I know, I mean I can't wait until we get to that point
<rick_h_> jrwren: lol
<jrwren> this is the first time ever they are attempting to reusing the 6M$ fairing, which is the only reason I am interested in this particular luanch.
<rick_h_> I want to see them try to catch the faring, that's crazy
<rick_h_> at least the first stage can steer
<jrwren> Yes, I agree. It really hope things get reusable and inexpensive and we look back at the 80s and 90s and 00s and think WTF?
<rick_h_> hah, "how much was that space shuttle? You all built a space station with that thing?"
<rick_h_> this will one day be the go to for "sometimes you have to take a step back to move forward" heh
<rick_h_> jrwren: you'll appreciate this, http://info.crunchydata.com/blog/postgres-operator-for-kubernetes
<rick_h_> jrwren: so they wrote a charm for postgres on k8s that has its own cli client lol
<jrwren> wow. crazy.
<jrwren> this is where k8s goes crazy IMO. But I guess, I'm pretty crazy too.
<rick_h_> yea, I was following some threads around coreos providing "operations for k8s deployed software" and got here and that's enough lol
<jrwren> i guess with k8s getting better managed storage this kind of thing kind of makes sense.
<jrwren> you can think of your k8s as a resource limiter and exposing db config like this via k8s api does have some advantages, but i feel like just running a DB in a more conventional cloud config makes more sense most of the time.
<rick_h_> I like seeing the ack that operations goes beyond install and upgrade
<jrwren>  listen to this one with sound.  https://twitter.com/cabel/status/979097369936502785
<jrwren> too true, rick_h_, in fact, k8s is so fast moving right now i feel like there is too much ops just for the k8s cluster.
<rick_h_> I'm floored trying to get stuff to work. "Just write out these 12 yaml files and these commands and viola...you've got your running software"
<jrwren> hahahaha.
<rick_h_> ok, listened with sound...I don't remember these with floppies. Song isn't really good
<jrwren> well, process based containers does mean there are no system to deal with.
<jrwren> rick_h_: you don't recognize the song?!? oh shit, maybe i'm too lold.
<rick_h_> no, I don't recall it atm
<jrwren> that is canyon.mid, a midi file that shipped default with windows 95.
<rick_h_> ah, did have/run win95 (my first own computer OS that I swapped with NT back and forth)
<rick_h_> but don't recall that midi file, I didn't mess with sound much on computers until winamp/mp3
<rick_h_> games I guess
<jrwren> ah, ok. yes, will in '95 that was the song on all windows computers.
<rick_h_> gotcha
<Scary_Guy>  Start me up or that one Weezer song that was also on the CD?
<Scary_Guy> actually I think it was the video
<jrwren> yes, it was.
<jrwren> Buddy Holly video by Weezer
<jrwren> and... after chatting with someone else about canyon.mid. I sit corrected. It was shipped with windows 3.1, so 1991.
<jrwren> A bit older.
<rick_h_> ah, yea that's before my time
<rick_h_> I didn't get my own computer until college so I missed a lot of early stuff
<jrwren> I got a job fixing PCs at a store in '95 a few months before win95 came out, so I got to see a lot of stuff.
<Scary_Guy> I got my first one at 9, but used the old Apple IIe in preschool
<Scary_Guy> but still no internet until 98 was stunting
<Scary_Guy> I think around 99 I was waking up and getting on the PC, going to school to get on the laptop, going to work to fix systems, and going back home and working on it until 2AM
<Scary_Guy> after a while I got burnt out a bit, then got back at it
<Scary_Guy> like six months of that
<jrwren> good times!
<Scary_Guy> now I just want my computer<>brain interface
<Scary_Guy> waiting for science to catch up to sci-fi is grueling
<cmaloney> God, those great Roland MIDI sounds
<cmaloney> I don't think I remember seeing that machine either but it makes perfect sense
<cmaloney> Seems like one of those specialty devices that you'd take to band practice to show off some midi wankery you did without bringing the whole kit
<cmaloney> which would probably appeal to about 10 people
<cmaloney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ks3ucumilU
<cmaloney> Music Tutor. So it's for learning
<rick_h_> Woot got the hello installed finally https://photos.app.goo.gl/Z1ai6bHf9DkZkCwA2
<cmaloney> nice!
<rick_h_> yea, fun to get it installed and tonight leave for VA
<rick_h_> so can spy on the house while away
<cmaloney> Heh
<Scary_Guy> I would be one of those people
<Scary_Guy> learning not to suck, lol.  also I love that guy's channel
<Scary_Guy> nice
<Scary_Guy> I need to do something similar, the remote talk feature looks sweet though too
<Scary_Guy> in fact I think I'll try making hooking up that camera today's project.  bbl
<jrwren> hehe, cool. that lens looks nice.
<jrwren> someoen else had a doorbell without the aspect lens recently and it looks really weird
<rick_h_> yea, looks a bit better now that I've gotten into the settings and upped the quality
<rick_h_> looks like about 1/4 or 1/3 less bandwidth than the outdoor camera
<jrwren> whoa, that is really good.
<rick_h_> I wish I could wedge it out a little bit more
<rick_h_> only has the one mount place that angles it 15deg
<rick_h_> mount plate that is
<rick_h_> well it's .3-.4Mbps
<rick_h_> and the outdoor one is .6-.7ish
<jrwren> oh, that is nice and small. I htink our streams are more than that, but I'm not sure.
<rick_h_> looking at the router at least
<Scary_Guy> you can always mill out a new piece
<Scary_Guy> or maybe give someone from #i3detroit the specs and have them do it
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-03-31
<Scary_Guy> morning
<jrwren> does anyone have ipv6 they can ping a host for me?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-04-01
<jrwren> I definitely don't know C++ anymore, and neither do you. http://www.bfilipek.com/2018/04/deprecating-pointers.html#
<myself> Happy March 32nd, everybody!
<jrwren> lmao. I honestly didn't know that was an april fools day joke.
<myself> It better be!
<jrwren> why is that? It kind of makes sense with the direction C++ is going.
<myself> fair enough, I never did trust all those pluses
<jrwren> lol.
<cmaloney> honestly the sooner we can deprecate C++ the happier we'll all be
<cmaloney> it was a nice experiment but Bjarne can finally let us in on the joke. ;)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-03-24
<rick_h_> if anyone knows any python experts looking and wouldn't mind working for me please do share https://canonical.com/careers/2075752
<jrwren> rick_h_: you are on ubuntu server team now?
<rick_h_> jrwren:  at end of cycle
<rick_h_> jrwren:  moving from Juju to Ubuntu Server team manager
<cmaloney> just posted to the Discuss list.
<rick_h_> <3 ty
<cmaloney> yw
<jrwren> rick_h_: congrats! Sounds like a fun move.
<rick_h_> jrwren:  yea, eager to get to a bit more uncomfy spot and learn/play with server stuff again more
<cmaloney> Seems like more of a core technology move. :)
<rick_h_> yea, and back into python running cloud-init, curtain, and the ua client python projects
<rick_h_> less golang :)
<cmaloney> jrwren should apply. ;)
<rick_h_> but a lot more launchpad and packaging
<_stink_> haha, was just about to mention jrwren :D
<rick_h_> can't have it all
<rick_h_> hah, jrwren can suggest rewriting it all in rust :P
<cmaloney> I'm surprised Launchpad hasn't had at least a minor facelift
<jrwren> if I were looking, I'd consider it. I still love ubuntu server.
<cmaloney> Nah, that's my suggestion
<jrwren> we are moving to it at work. YAY!
<rick_h_> awesome!
<cmaloney> from CentOS?
<jrwren> from arch.
<cmaloney> JFC
<rick_h_> heh, there are folks working on launchpad again (small team)
<jrwren> can you imagine...
<jrwren> right?
<cmaloney> no
<jrwren> trying to run and operate a stable system on top of a rolling release distro?
<rick_h_> wow, I miss arch on my laptop days but not sure about for real servers/cloud
<rick_h_> how bout them snaps :P
<jrwren> they removed all their python2... we still have a ton on python2. LOL
<cmaloney> arch: All the stability of a loaded gun on a wobbly table.
<jrwren> rick_h_: LOL.
<cmaloney> God, snaps
<rick_h_> snaps on top of arch ftw! :P
 * cmaloney deletes application
<cmaloney> I forgot about snaps
<rick_h_> I love snaps for client apps
<cmaloney> ^ proprietary client apps
<cmaloney> I'll give you that
<rick_h_> but find it funny that I might get behind them for "stable-ish" server apps on something like arch ll
<rick_h_> meh, even for open source ones. I'd rather snaps that can be confined than debs from random ppa
<cmaloney> I don't see the arch crew really adopting snaps
<cmaloney> true
<cmaloney> random ppa with pre-packaged python really makes me nervous sometimes
<cmaloney> (blender)
<cmaloney> I got an electric mower today. :)
<cmaloney> Roybi 20" 3rd generation 6ah behemoth
<cmaloney> now I might actually look forward to mowing for a sell
<cmaloney> spell
<rick_h_> hah, nice
<cmaloney> One less gas appliance in the house
 * cmaloney hates gas
<jrwren> flatpacks give more control to teh end user.
<jrwren> i'm rooting for flatpacks over snaps.
<cmaloney> appimage. ;)
<jrwren> what's that?
<jrwren> battery mower or corded?
<cmaloney> https://appimage.org/
<cmaloney> Battery mower
<jrwren> I like my battery mower.
<cmaloney> I have a corded snowblower, which is awesome
<cmaloney> <3
<cmaloney> Makes perfect sense for our lot
<rick_h_> ugh, I really want a dual stage but can't justify the space they take up
<jrwren> what's that?
<rick_h_> I tried electric for a power washer and hated it. I'm burning gas
<rick_h_> 2-stage snow thrower?
<jrwren> oh.
<jrwren> i dont' know anything about snow throwers or powerwashers :)
<rick_h_> sorry, should have said 2-stage vs dual stage
<cmaloney> Only downside is it's a little small if we really get whalloped
<rick_h_> heh, well I grew my driveway a couple of years ago now so have no shame, though I never used it this winter it was so mild and only shoveled
<cmaloney> but that just means more trips outside
<cmaloney> Yeah, I try to do more shoveling if I can
<rick_h_> I got a new plastic snow pusher that was awesome this winter
<rick_h_> https://amzn.to/2WIaFnY
<rick_h_> really light weight and worked great in the mild winter we had
<cmaloney> rick_h_: here you go: https://www.lowes.com/pd/Ariens-Power-Brush-28-28-in-177-cc-Two-Stage-Self-Propelled-Gas-Snow-Blower-with-Push-Button-Electric-Start/1000373259
<cmaloney> Heh, I think those are what the landscrapers use on the house across the street
<rick_h_> hah ouchy that's a brute there
<cmaloney> sweepy sweepy
<rick_h_> yea, probably nicer/cleaner than my snow blower but the shoveling does pretty good as long as you keep up on it and don't leave things to melt/ice chunk
<jrwren> i shovel my driveway in less than 10 minutes most of hte time.
<cmaloney> Yeah, that was my main issue this winter
<jrwren> although once this year it was HEAVY snow and it took a lot longer.
<jrwren> wow, 36" wide... that is great for the light snows.
<rick_h_> yea, just push it and it's run by each way
<rick_h_> much faster
<cmaloney> BTW: CHC is online tomorrow
<cmaloney> If y'all want to come. https://gettogether.community/events/4809/coffee-house-coders-regular-meeting/
<rick_h_> yea, I'll try to make it. I put it on the calendar
<cmaloney> Sweet!
<mrgoodcat> i can't come this week unfortunately
<mrgoodcat> have a remote workshop with people in all sorts of timezones
<cmaloney> No worries. If it lets out early feel free to just pop in
<cmaloney> Trying to just keep some consistency in the week and be there for folks who need it
<mrgoodcat> technically i should be done in time, but then I have dinner and whatnot
<cmaloney> dinner. Feh
<rick_h_> over rated!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-03-25
<jrwren> https://blog.cloudflare.com/speeding-up-linux-disk-encryption/
<jrwren> i love how t hey post to a mailing list and get a bullshit answer, so they keep digging. very real open source.
<Scary_Guy> A bullshit answer on a mailinglist/forum/blog?  Say it ain't so!
<Scary_Guy> That's half the fun of linux looking at forums from 5 years ago and they either don't answer the question, or the answer was deleted, or "I figured it out!" with no explanation.
<cmaloney> I hate those "I figured it out" (disappears)
<Scary_Guy> Yeah, I think I hate them the most.
<Dekkard> ahhh unemployment
<Dekkard> i think i figured it out
<cmaloney> Yeah, unemployment is a little tricky to figure out
<cmaloney> take it from someone who has used it a few times
<jrwren> well, rando maillist i expect that... but when it is the official list, and you get false info, as in this case... taht is when it really grinds my gears.
<cmaloney> Especially if you get false info and it isn't correct
<cmaloney> or rather isn't corrected
<Dekkard> ive found lately, searching for help on Goog has lots of answers. From 4 years ago..most dont apply to modern software.
<jrwren> yup, lots of bad info out there.
<cmaloney> Yeah, I've had to put the modifier for recent info
<cmaloney> STack Overflow also has 10 years of stuff on it, which is not helpful for Django stuff
<cmaloney> https://meet.jit.si/CoffeeHouseCodersRoyalOak20200325
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-03-26
<cmaloney> Still going. :)
<Scary_Guy> Nice
<jrwren> i love cloudflaire. they do great and amazing work. https://blog.cloudflare.com/why-we-started-putting-unpopular-assets-in-memory/
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-03-29
<Dekkard> you know youre bored when you do vimtutor
<cmaloney> heh
<jrwren> cmaloney: what is your goodreads? https://www.goodreads.com/user/show/75152096-jrwren
<cmaloney> Just followed, though I'm not using it anymore.
<jrwren> oh, you aren't.
<cmaloney> yeah, I'm likely to blog more about a book
<cmaloney> I looked at Library Thing and while I liked it I'm not sure I'm going to track my books on there.
<Dekkard> ok... vimtutor is 25 to 30 minutes..ForWhom???
<Dekkard> ahh for someone who already knows vi
<mrgoodcat> Dekkard: i've done it a few times and I always get some small thing that i either didn't know, forgot, or didn't completely internalize
<Dekkard> heh
<Dekkard> im doing it becayse i am bored, and of course so i can maybe edit some .rc files when X fails
<Dekkard> i mean... I donteven work in IT... so its all sort of hobbyish, besides the fact that Ive been using the linux since win98
<Dekkard> windows makes me feel inconvenienced
<Scary_Guy> I assume that's why most of us are here.  I've heard it like Mac was the Rolls Royce of PC.  You get it and everything is taken care of for you but you have no control and need to go to the dealership for everything.  Linux is the hotrod you work on yourself.  I guess now Windows is just an uber since you don't really own it and it's probably selling your data on top of it.
<Dekkard> its worse..like you are trying to do a report, and it decides to do a 45 minute update without prompting you
<Dekkard> or it prompts you with little help cards like clippy
<Dekkard> it is maddening
<Dekkard> the rules: My machine, My way
<Dekkard> i dont do much as far as customizing anymore.. I just want to install it, and get to work.
<Scary_Guy> Look up win10privacy.  You can shut most of that off with a nice GUI that tells you what will break if you do.  Also, LTSB-N is nice as well.  I recommend both.
<Scary_Guy> Well, I recommend both for those that are forced to deal with Window$.
<Dekkard> will keep in mind.. but the laptop i have for work is pretty locked down as is.. no idea about how much telemetry it sending
<Scary_Guy> Unless it's been neutered by IT then the answer is "all of it"
<Dekkard> lol
<Scary_Guy> At least win10privacy doesn't require an install, you can also do everything via CMD/PS commands
<Dekkard> once its reactivate ill give that a shot.. since I'm on furlough i have no reason to even boot the thing
<Dekkard>  I was told that if I boot now, IT sent some command to kill it untill we are bck to work
<Scary_Guy> Well don't connect it to the internet then :P
<Dekkard> fo sho
<Dekkard> im playing on this HP pavillion all in one..like 30" screen, amd quad core(old)
<Scary_Guy> https://github.com/MichiMunich/Windows10-Privacy there's a script or you can run everything manually too.
<Dekkard> we got it when my father in law passed.. no one knew the password to get in, so..quick inspection off a usb drive, and wiped it
<Dekkard> checking that link now
<Dekkard> bookmarked
<Dekkard> did you hang in MDLUG ?
<Scary_Guy> No, but I frequent USLUG
<Scary_Guy> (irc, not irl)
<Dekkard> das ist auf Deutch??
<Scary_Guy> Nein
<Dekkard> https://blog.doenselmann.com/windows-10-datenschutz-mit-powershell-erhoehen/
<Scary_Guy> I do listen to a lot of German Industrial music though
<Dekkard> ja
<Scary_Guy> Oh, yeah.  https://www.w10privacy.de/english-home/ also has a Deutsch version as well
<Dekkard> i do like the idea of totally messing with corporate IT..
<Dekkard> I did what??? Oh no.. I'm just a Chef!!
<Scary_Guy> https://www.ghacks.net/2015/08/14/comparison-of-windows-10-privacy-tools/ this looks like a pretty good breakdown of similar apps as well.
<Dekkard> yeah.. administrator privvys.. that is a problem
<Scary_Guy> Well you can do a ton without those too, sometimes.  It depends on how well it's locked down.
<Dekkard> roger that
<Scary_Guy> I remember the days of being in school and getting through to things using Help.  That was fun.
<Dekkard> i remember when lots of stuff was fun.
<Dekkard> When I was in school, computers used punch cards
<Scary_Guy> Wow
<Dekkard> yeah.. long time ago
<Dekkard> i worked as a courier for a summer, i would take disk drive platters from one plant to another.. because No Internet
<Dekkard> they were as big as s dinner plate, and held KBs of data
<Dekkard> its come a long way in not so very much time..
<Scary_Guy> I saw one hanging on the wall in OakTec
<Dekkard> heh
<Dekkard> bbiaf
<Scary_Guy> https://pavel-krivanek.github.io/pdp11/ enjoy
<Scary_Guy> http://toyvax.glendale.ca.us/~vance/vaxbar.html here have this too
