#ubuntu-desktop 2008-05-05
<davyboy04> Would anybody know why my desktop effects worked perfectly with the live cd and now they will not enable after installation?
<dholbach> good morning
<pitti> seb128: can you please reupload gnome-panel with an SRU bug # in the changelog? without one, they are much harder to track, and will most likely be forgotten about
<seb128> pitti: ok
<pitti> seb128: thanks; rejecting the current one then
 * pitti hugs seb128
 * seb128 hugs pitti
<seb128> pitti: reuploaded
<pitti> seb128: I don't understand the test case in bug 211205
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 211205 in gvfs "gvfs-fuse-daemon crashed with SIGSEGV in g_output_stream_close()" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/211205
<pitti> seb128: there's nothing at all in ~/.gvfs after mounting my USB hard disk (with some music on it)
<pitti> seb128: why should it mount my HD under ~/.gvfs? it's already in /media/ after all?
<seb128> pitti: hum
<seb128> pitti: right, I tried using ssh to localhost
<seb128> you have a point about the local mount
<seb128> using ssh to localhost rather ;-)
<seb128> pitti: upstream tested on a mtp devices but it was mounted by the gphoto backend which gives a fuse mount too, I've updated the testcase instructions
<pitti> aah
<seb128> pitti: about bug #226831, I'm not sure what testcase we can use, it doesn't fix launchpad bugs that I know
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 226831 in gnome-panel "2.22.1.3 stable update" [Wishlist,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/226831
<pitti> seb128: ok, then we just test 'still works for me'?
<seb128> pitti: do we need upstream bug fix versions to fix known bugs in launchpad?
<pitti> seb128: I was just interested in the effective diff, since we already had some patches
<pitti> (especially for teh clock)
<seb128> pitti: yes, basically, we test "no regression in daily use"
<seb128> pitti: I can attach that to the bug if you want
<seb128> we had 2 of the upstream changes backported
<pitti> ah, ok
<pitti> so we should concentrate testing to the clock applet
<seb128> yes, only the clock changed
<seb128> as you can see on the diffstat ;-)
<seb128> do you want me to add some instructions? like add some locations, switch between those, verify that /etc/timezone is correctly updated when clicking on set and that the clock is correct?
<seb128> I did that on my box before uploading
<pitti> hm, WTH?
<pitti> seb128: sure, that can't hurt
<pitti> seb128: I downgraded gvfs again, for testing the update
<pitti> I logged in, and I only have "? ? ? ? ? ? .gvfs"
<pitti> and ls .gvfs says "transport endpoint not connected"
<pitti> however, on my normal user, ~/.gvfs is a normal directory
<seb128> pitti: fusermount -u .gvfs
<pitti> gvfsd is still running, though
<seb128> pitti: then /usr/lib/gvfs/gvfs-fuse-daemon .gvfs
<pitti> ah, now it's back
<seb128> pitti: that's bug #212789
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 212789 in gvfs "gvfs fuse mount is not functional after logout and subsequent login" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/212789
<seb128> pitti: nothing is unmounting the fuse mount between logins, that's on my 8.04.1 list
<seb128> pitti: you don't need to restart the session though to test, just fusermount -u .gvfs && /usr/lib/gvfs/gvfs-fuse-daemon .gvfs
<pitti> right
<seb128> you can also attach gdb to it to make sure it's crashing
<pitti> I did it anyway
<seb128> ok
<pitti> (gdmflexiserver -l)
<pitti> but it wasn't crashing for me
<seb128> do you get the crash before update?
<seb128> hum
<pitti> totem and rhythmbox on .gvfs/.../ worked fine
<pitti> I downgraded to the hardy final packages
<pitti> all binaries of the gvfs source
<seb128> pitti: you have many songs there?
<pitti> I tried a dir with 12 songs
<seb128> it takes a few seconds to get a crash on my config
<seb128> ah, that might not be enough
<pitti> I can also try a dir with some 100s
<pitti> ok, retrying
<seb128> I tried on my collection
<seb128> you need to hammer a bit the thing
<seb128> 12 songs is not a lot of datas
<pitti> aah
<pitti> I pointed it to my entire music collection
<seb128> good ;-)
<pitti> (fresh user)
<pitti> it stopped at imoprting the 69th song
<pitti> and now I can't play anything
<pitti> gvfsd is still running, though
 * pitti upgrades and tests again
<seb128> did the fuse daemon crashed?
<pitti> hm, unsure; should have looked better; but in any case the apps were hanging
<seb128> ok
<seb128> ls .gvfs
<seb128> if it's not connected the daemon crashed
<pitti> gvfs-fuse-daemon on /home/joe/.gvfs type fuse.gvfs-fuse-daemon (rw,nosuid,nodev,user=joe)
<seb128> right, the mount is not cleaned when the daemon crash, that's the bug I pointed before
<pitti> updated, restarted session, importing again; it's on the 150th song now
<pitti> looks good so far
<seb128> cool ;-)
<pitti> bug updated
<seb128> thanks
<pitti> seb128, mvo: btw, does any of you have an ATI card where fglrx works? I need someone to verify bug 208026
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 208026 in jockey "gnome-appearance-properties asks for reboot if you cancel ATI driver install" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/208026
<seb128> pitti: I do
<seb128> will try this one
<pitti> seb128: merci!
<seb128> pitti: btw there is a new evolution-data-server stable update version, it has migration code for the password to the text encoded version to the keyring, do you think it's something suitable for an update?
<pitti> oh, nice
<pitti> seb128: will that work for people who already 'manually' migrated?
<seb128> the code is not too complex, it has been written by one upstream and approved by somebody else from their team and I've verified it works fine for me
<pitti> i. e. if the user already set a password in the keyring, the migration code should probably not do anything
<pitti> but it would solve the issue nicely for upgrades
<seb128> pitti: that's not possible, e-d-s is build without the keyring at the moment
<seb128> pitti: because there was no migration
<seb128> pitti: and we didn't want users to have to enter their passwords again on upgrade
<pitti> seb128: hm, how is that solved in hardy right now then? what saves the passwords?
<pitti> seb128: ah, I see; you can configure it to use either keyring or evo-specific password storage?
<seb128> right now it's base64 encoded in a text file
<seb128> yes
<seb128> they added the code which reads the base64 encoded file and copy the password in the keyring
<seb128> so if we build using the keyring it'll be transparent for users
<pitti> that sounds good
<pitti> does it properly clean up the old file afterwards?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> it does migrate the password when you use it for the first time
<seb128> and delete it from the base64 text file when it has been copied in the keyring
<pitti> awesome
 * pitti -> lunch, bbl
<seb128> pitti: enjoy
<mvo> pitti: I have one, if seb128 is not faster, I can do it later
<seb128> jockey doesn't ask if I want to install fglrx, not sure why
<seb128> $ jockey-gtk --check-composite
<seb128> There is no available graphics driver for your system which supports the composite extension.
<seb128> not sure why it's saying that
<huats> lut seb128
<seb128> 'lu huats
<pitti> seb128: it shouldn't, since radeon already provides composite support
<pitti> seb128: the output string is bad, indeed
<seb128> pitti: when does it suggest installing fglrx then?
<pitti> seb128: hm, good point
<pitti> seb128: that was bug 207957, and fixed in hardy final already
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 207957 in jockey "Driver manager tries to install unneeded FGLRX driver for Compiz" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/207957
<pitti> seb128: so I guess this only really works for nvidia cards
 * pitti adjusts the bug
<seb128> pitti: does it look at the currently used driver?
<pitti> seb128: no, jockey doesn't know the current driver; that's compiz' job
<seb128> pitti: I can try to switch to vesa
<pitti> no, that won't help :(
<seb128> pitti: well, the question is "if I use vesa, will it recommend fglrx"?
<seb128> ok
<pitti> there's a bug against g-c-c to just try and start compiz, and only if that fails, call jockey
<pitti> once it does that, we can sanitize the logic in jockey again
<pitti> right now it works around the fact that g-c-c *always* calls --check-composite
<seb128> ok
<pitti> so I had to cripple it a bit to not suggest fglrx over radeon, etc.
<seb128> I can try to hack the logic to test the install cancellation if you want
<pitti> bug updated
<pitti> seb128: that would be good
<pitti> seb128: /usr/share/jockey/handlers/fglrx.py
<pitti> line 35
<pitti>         if len(devices) == 0 or devices[0].driver in ['fglrx', 'ati', 'radeon', None]:
<pitti> drop the 'ati' and 'radeon' from the list
<pitti> then --check-composite will claim that you need fglrx
<pitti> oh, wait
<pitti> seb128: indeed, with that 'vesa' should suggest to install fglrx
<pitti> seb128: sorry about that
<seb128> let me try
<pitti> I forgot that I recently added this check of xorg.conf
<pitti> seb128: so, just change xorg.conf to vesa (you don't actually need to restart X)
<seb128> pitti: confirmed, the upgrade fixes the issue
<seb128> pitti: what is the bug number again?
<pitti> \o/
<pitti> bug 208026
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 208026 in jockey "gnome-appearance-properties asks for reboot if you cancel driver install" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/208026
<pitti> with that being verified, jockey is three bugs down, one to go
<pitti> but 216650 definitively needs an nvidia system
<seb128> not for me then, I've ati and intel configurations
<seb128> I've commented on the reboot one
<ember> i have one nvidia with hardy
<pitti> seb128: thanks
<pitti> ember: ah; interested in doing the verification for bug 216650?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 216650 in jockey "Nvidia driver Enabled but not In Use" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/216650
<pitti> seb128: i. e. with the updated version jockey returns saying the driver is disabled instead of triggering the reboot notification?
<seb128> pitti: jockey doesn't display anything when cancelling, gnome-appearance-properties displays the "can"t enable desktop effects" dialog
<pitti> seb128: ok, I think that can be considered 'correct'
<seb128> yes
<ember> pitti i have -new and jockey is enable and In use
<pitti> ember: right; so if you install e. g. nvidia-glx, then jockey should say disabled/not in use, instead of enabled/not in use
<ember> let me install nvidia-glx
<ember> pitti i've installed nvidia-glx, and jockey is disable not in use
<pitti> ember: great
<pitti> ember: with apt-get install jockey-common/hardy jockey-gtk/hardy it should show it as 'enabled'
<ember> i'm running jockey-gtk
<pitti> ember: no, I mean, above command will downgrade the packages from hardy-proposed to hardy final
<ember> oh sorry, enable but not in use
<pitti> ember: when it says 'enable but not in use', which version of jockey-common do you have?
<ember> Version: 0.3.3-0ubuntu7
<pitti> ember: right; now, can you please upgrade to hardy-proposed and try ubuntu8? It should say 'disabled' and 'not in use', since you are using a different driver than the one displayed and proposed by jockey
<ember> disable, not in use
<pitti> ember: cool; can you please report your tests to the bug?
<pitti> ember: thanks a lot for your time!
<ember> okidoki
<ember> btw anyone is getting problems creating a chroot of pbuilder to intrepid?
<ember> W: Failure trying to run: chroot /var/cache/pbuilder/build/25979/. dpkg --force-depends --install var/cache/apt/archives/libc6_2.7-10ubuntu3_i386.deb
<ember> i'm getting this on sid too
<Hobbsee> seb128: did you tell me that totem-xine or totem-gstreamer had the dvd menu support?
<seb128> Hobbsee: no, but totem-xine has it
<Hobbsee> seb128: that's what i thought.  ahhh, for some reason, i have both installed now.
<Hobbsee> hmmm
<Hobbsee> and with totem-xine  now, i get no picture.
<Hobbsee> interesting.  i had this all working together at one point.  maybe that was with gutsy.
<seb128> Hobbsee: bug #219062?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 219062 in totem ""Could not read from resource" error when playing encrypted DVD" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/219062
<ember> perhaps this is just an archive thing coz i can create a hardy chroot fine, can anyone confirm this?
<Hobbsee> seb128: don't think so
<Hobbsee> seb128: no, i'ts not that.
<Hobbsee> seb128: i can watch the dvd with -gstreamer fine
<pochu_> seb128: hi, could you sync libbeagle from Debian? the only diff was to make it python version independent, and the change is now in Debian too (and we also have the same Python version :)
<seb128> pochu_: sync like in intreprid or hardy updates?
<pochu_> intrepid
<seb128> hum, k
<seb128> I have no intrepid box and didn't start looking at it yet but I guess I can do syncs ;-)
<seb128> pochu_: synced
<pochu_> seb128: thanks :)
<pochu_> seb128: how is it going? busy with hardy updates?
<pochu_> did GNOME 2.22 end being too buggy or was it good? :)
<seb128> yes, really busy trying to keep up with the hardy bug flood and doing srus
<seb128> medium
<seb128> it's quite good, out of some gvfs smb issues
<pochu_> I could help you with vinagre's, if Jonh makes more stable releases ;)
<pochu_> anyway I have a patch pending for -proposed... I'll have to check that one
<seb128> no need to wait for new version to backport fixes that should be in 8.04.1
<pochu_> ok
<pochu_> anyway this patch is from the unstable branch, so it won't end up in any stable release ;)
<seb128> pochu: what does it do?
<pochu> seb128: bug 199116, it adds a menu to send ctrl+alt+del to the guest, the problem is that it adds a couple of new strings
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 199116 in vinagre "Can not send 'Ctrl+Alt+Del'" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/199116
<seb128> pochu: somebody was asking about it some days ago and upload to his ppa I think and was working on the sru
<pochu> seb128: the guy asking for it said he talked to you about it, see comment 16
<pochu> right
<pochu> the debdiff is attached
<solarion> is anyone else seeing a problem with ssh finding seahorse-agent?
<solarion> or not finding, which is the problem.  :)
<seb128> the gnome-keyring is used as ssh agent in hardy so I didn't try using seahorse there
<solarion> seb128: until this morning, it Just Worked.
<seb128> weird, hardy didn't change recently
<solarion> seahorse-agent is running; it looks like the env vars just aren't getting set
<solarion> SSH_AUTH_SOCK is set
<solarion> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 40932 2008-04-21 10:41 /usr/bin/seahorse-agent
<solarion> what is responsible for setting env vars for seahorse-agent?
<solarion> seahorse-agent --execute x-session-manager
<seb128> /etc/X11/Xsession.d/60seahorse I would say
<solarion> ok, but how to the env vars get set?
<solarion> actually, it looks like SSH_AUTH_SOCK is all that's needed
<solarion> connect(3, {sa_family=AF_FILE, path="/tmp/keyring-s53Esh/ssh"}, 110) = -1 ECONNREFUSED (Connection refused)
<solarion> weirdness
<solarion> seahorse isn't the problem; it's gnome-keyring-daemon, but only on this box
<solarion> weird.  Logged out, killed gnome-keyring-manager, restarted X, logged back in and now it works
<lapo> hey there
<solarion> hej
<gobbles414> Can anyone here answer and OpenOffice-related question?
<pjoul> gobbles414: go to #ubuntu
<gobbles414> Went there... Waited a few minutes but no help. Also tried #Openoffice.org... same thing, now help
<gobbles414> oops... no help
<pjoul> so what's your question then
<gobbles414> Thanks pjoul... I need to learn how to delete author/date metadata from "Tracked Changes" that I have made in Writer. I have "Remove personal information on saving" enabled.
<gobbles414> I hear that what I want to do is possible in MS Word 2003 and newer. But I haven't been able to find anything regarding OpenOffice Writer
<pjoul> hmm, sorry man - I'm not an openoffice expert :-/
<pjoul> anyway try some googling
<pjoul> http://www.oooforum.org/forum/viewtopic.phtml?t=60461
<pjoul> http://www.itbusinessnet.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=42970
<pjoul> http://www.google.cz/search?q="Tracked+Changes"+openoffice
<pjoul> ï»¿http://www.google.cz/search?q="Tracked+Changes"+openoffice"
<pjoul> oops
<pjoul> the first one
<pjoul> ï»¿http://www.google.cz/search?q="Tracked+Changes"+openoffice
<gobbles414> 1 sec while I try something from your second link
<gobbles414> Yeah, all I see is a way to search changes by date. Am I missing something? I actually want to remove the date metadata.
<pjoul> sorry man. I cannot help you
<pjoul> maybe you could try to post into that oooforum.org
<gobbles414> Thanks for trying. I appreciate it!
<pochu_> pitti: I see in your debhelper merge you kept support for Dapper... should we do the same for gstreamer? That would mean we can't sync it...
<pochu_> err, wait
<pochu_> gstreamer is about linking directories
<pochu_> nevermind
<pitti> pochu: it's just to avoid bad intrepid->dapper backports
<pitti> pochu: as long as we have other debhelper changes, that one is cheap to keep
<pochu> that makes sense
<rooger> hello?
#ubuntu-desktop 2008-05-06
<Whippet> hi all
<Whippet> wondering if anyone could help me with cairo-dock?
<Whippet> it installed ok, but will not launch
<Whippet> using ubuntu 8.04
<Whippet> installed by launching the cairo-dock*.deb and cairo-dock-plug-ins*.deb
<Whippet> files show up in right places
<Whippet> but /usr/bin/cairo-dock wont launch
<Whippet> says it's there but no launchy :-(
<Whippet> specific error msg. is Failed to execute child process "cairo-dock" (No such file or directory)
<Whippet> which is puzzling as the files and directories exist and the cairo-dock is marked as executable
<Whippet> any help would be appreciated
<DShepherd> does anyone else find the tracker-applet notification icons not very intuitive?
<dholbach> good morning
<huats> moring everyone
<seb128> pochu: did you read my reply to your comment about the gtk-vnc update?
<pochu> seb128: yeah, I'll look at them
<seb128> thanks
<pochu> soren: gtk-vnc is a sync for Intrepid, right?
<seb128> let me know if you need some testing, etc
<pochu> thanks
<soren> pochu: AFAIR, yes.
<pochu> from the changelog it looks like ;)
<pochu> soren: it adds a new binary package, mozilla-gtk-vnc (--enable-plugin=yes), is that ok?
<soren> pochu: For intrepid? Sure, sure.
<soren> I looking forward to that one, actually :)
<pochu> heh
<pochu> seb128: can you sync gtk-vnc for Intrepid?
<seb128> yes
<pochu> good morning slomo_!
<seb128> pitti: the pending sru code seems to pick upstream bug numbers too, it doesn't use Launchpad-Bugs-Fixed?
<pitti> seb128: it only looks at the actual changelog
<pitti> seb128: I started with parsing for LP: #1234
<pitti> seb128: but that didn't catch a lot of mis-formatted bug numbers
<seb128> hum
<pitti> so I made it more flexible
<seb128> pitti: looks at the evolution bugs list for example
<pitti> of course that means getting false positives, but that's better than not showing all LP bugs IMHO
<seb128> ok
<seb128> I should clean the upstream numbers next time then
<pitti> hehe, yea
<pitti> seb128: no, please keep them, they are useful
<pitti> seb128: it's quite clear that those are upstream #, not LP #
<seb128> ok
<pitti> seb128: well, I have started to reject packages with invalid changelogs (missing bug #), etc.
<pitti> if we become consequent with that, I can make the parsing stricter again
<seb128> I was not sure if you were aiming at "all green" on this list before copying to updates or something
<pitti> seb128: oh, no; only the LP ones
<seb128> ok, as long as you can figure which ones are lp or not that's fine I guess ;-)
<pitti> once we hit the 3xxxxxx range, it becomes harder, of course
<pitti> I try to train myself to not be forgiving about wrong SRU changelogs now
<mantiena> hi all
<mantiena> Is this channel correct place to ask about strange behaviour of hal and policy-kit ?
<mantiena> ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿or it's better to ask at ubuntu-devel ?
<mantiena> ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿anyone here?
<seb128> hi mantiena, you can always ask
<mantiena> seb128: :)
<mantiena> ï»¿so, question is - why policy-kit doesn't allow to upgrade hal package in chroot ?
<mantiena> ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿root@linux-desktop:/# dpkg --configure -a
<mantiena> Setting up hal (0.5.11~rc2-1ubuntu8) ...
<mantiena>  * Reloading system message bus config...                                [ OK ]
<mantiena> polkit-read-auth-helper: needs to be setgid polkituser
<mantiena> polkit-auth: NotAuthorizedToReadAuthorizationsForOtherUsers: uid 0 is not authorized to read authorizations for uid 111 (requires org.freedesktop.policykit.read)
<mantiena> ï»¿ï»¿I've found which hal.postinst line couses this message:
<mantiena> ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿# Allow hal to query the PolicyKit database to enforce privileges
<mantiena>   if ! /usr/bin/polkit-auth --user haldaemon --explicit | grep -q 'org.freedesktop.policykit.read'; then
<mantiena>       /usr/bin/polkit-auth --user haldaemon --grant 'org.freedesktop.policykit.read'
<mantiena>   fi
<mantiena> So, is it bug in hal package or bug in policy-kit ?
<pochu> seb128, soren: gtk-vnc uploaded and built at https://edge.launchpad.net/~pochu/+archive, with the 3 fixes.
<soren> pochu: Awesome!
<pochu> seb128: I'll ask for testing in the 3 bug reports
<seb128> ok, thanks
<pochu> wait
<seb128> pochu: it's not listed there yet, maybe you need to remove the 0.3.5 candidate?
<pochu> right, I just got a rejected mail
<pochu> anyway, it built fine on my desktop ;)
<pochu> bah I guess it will take some time for the ppa to remove the package...
<seb128> should not
<soren> Er.. Yes.
<soren> It's done by a nightly cron job.
<pochu> I thought that was already fixed, but looks like not
<soren> At least it used to be.
<pochu> at least it's dissapeared from the UI but it's still at http://ppa.launchpad.net/pochu/ubuntu/pool/main/g/gtk-vnc/
<pochu> so I guess a new upload will be rejected again
<pochu> seb128, soren: anyway, I've put the diff.gz & .dsc at http://emilio.pozuelo.org/~deb/, you know where to get the orig from ;)
<seb128> ah ok
<pochu> feel free to play with it :)
<seb128> pochu: can you attach the debdiff to one of the bugs rather?
<pochu> ah, sure
<seb128> pochu: that's what is required for a sure anyway
<seb128> s/sure/sru
<pochu> seb128: attached at bug 206227
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 206227 in gtk-vnc "vinagre fails to connect" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/206227
<seb128> pochu: thanks
<pochu> anytime
<pochu> bbl
<seb128> see you later
<seb128> soren: want to give it a try and do the sponsoring?
<soren> seb128: I won't get around to it today, then.
<soren> seb128: I can do it tomorrow or the next day.
<seb128> soren: well, no hurry, before 8.04.1 would be nice though ;-)
<soren> I think I can manage that :)
<seb128> thanks
<mantiena> seb128: so, could you tell me anything about hal updating problem? It appreard when I upgrading hal from hardy-updates...
<seb128> no
<seb128> I've no clue about this one
<mantiena> pitti: maybe I should talk with you about hal updating problems ?
<pitti> mantiena: sure
<mantiena> pitti: should I repeat my lines or you can look at the history of this channel (I've post 2 hours ago) ?
<pitti> mantiena: I have scrollback, give me another 5 mins
<pitti> (I'd like to finish my current task)
<mantiena> ok
<pitti> mantiena: oh, hal in a chroot? I guess that will break in more than one way
<pitti> mantiena: do you have policykit running in the chroot?
<mantiena> pitti: I don't think so, but in any case - I think there should be a way to upgrade hal package in chroot
<mantiena> pitti: I'm remastering Ubuntu LiveCD and wanna have to update latest packages
<pitti> mantiena: does it help to stop the 'outside' hal and policykit, and restart the ones in the chroot?
<mantiena> pitti: I can try, didn't this break my internet connection or something ?
<pitti> yes, it might (network-manager)
<pitti> I don't see a way how to sensibly run two hals on the same machine at the same time
<mantiena> pitti: but I don't need to run hal inside chroot, I just need to update hal package
<pitti> mantiena: oh
<pitti> mantiena: using policy-rc.d might help then, but it'll proably stumble over the polkit-auth call
<mantiena> ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿I've found which hal.postinst line couses this message:
<mantiena> ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿# Allow hal to query the PolicyKit database to enforce privileges
<mantiena>   if ! /usr/bin/polkit-auth --user haldaemon --explicit | grep -q 'org.freedesktop.policykit.read'; then
<mantiena>       /usr/bin/polkit-auth --user haldaemon --grant 'org.freedesktop.policykit.read'
<mantiena>   fi
<mantiena> ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿are these lines needed for upgrading hal package ?
 * mantiena is not policy-kit guru ...
<pitti> mantiena: actually only for the first installation
<pitti> so those could be wrapped into
<pitti> if [ -z "$2" ]; then
<mantiena> pitti: so, should I report a bug against hal package ?
<mantiena> :)
<asac> pitti:
<asac> merging country code en
<asac> merging country code es
<asac> merging country code pt
<asac> merging country code zh
<asac> i guess for those few it makes sense to manually upload lang packs?
<pitti> mantiena: no need to, I just fixed it in trunk: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/hal/ubuntu/revision/235
 * pitti hugs asac
<pitti> asac: yes, I think so; that should be done in the update packages
<asac> pitti: update package? will that work?
<pitti> asac: you need to update them anyway, since version(base) == version(update) ATM, and base version X depends on update version >= X
<pitti> asac: so you can as well put them into the updates only (they Replaces: -base)
<asac> yes ... i thought ill punch the new tarballs in base and upload update with bumpbed depends
<asac> pitti: ok i see .. problem is that in en we have "en" + "en_GB" ... i would like to remove "en" from that
<pochu> seb128, soren: gtk-vnc is now in my ppa in the correct version (the debdiff remains the same): https://edge.launchpad.net/~pochu/+archive
<mantiena> pitti: oh, you don't wanna increase my karma in launchpad ....
<asac> i think its not important.
<asac> so i can go for update package only
<seb128> pochu: cool, thanks
<pitti> mantiena: heh; if you insist, you can file it anyway :)
<pitti> mantiena: (or if you need it for tracking purposes)
<pitti> asac: I agree; fewer packages to touch, and testing this scenario is good anyway (it's supposed to work)
<pitti> asac: scenario> update packages providing newer translations than -base
 * mantiena wanna to become ubuntu member, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MantasKriauÄiÅ«nas
<mantiena> pitti: maybe you wanna write testmonial into my wiki page ?
<mantiena> ;)
<asac> pitti: ok fine. how about moving things to language-support when 3.0 RC1 comes out. people kick me all the time :/
<pitti> asac: to language-*support*? heck, we just got rid of that?
<asac> pitti: err, no idea how the package is called. i mean move it from -gnome- to a common package
<pitti> asac: ah, I see; if Riddell is ok with that, sure
<asac> pitti: ok, ill talk into him :)
<asac> anyway ... i am doing the langpack updates as discussed for now
<pitti> asac: great
<mantiena> pitti: so, what about your testmonial into my wiki page ? ;)
<asac> pitti: all three packs in bug 222673 are waiting for approval i guess
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 222673 in rosetta "language-pack-gnome-pt-base has pt-br translation" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/222673
<pitti> mantiena: what do you mean?
<pitti> asac: great, so it worked correctly? (replacing files, etc.)
<asac> pitti: for me the result looks ok. there are no conflicts when installing and the problems are fixed
<pitti> cool
<asac> pitti: all files replaced are identical to the ones in -base ... so i cannot check that easily if he replace worked properly
<asac> but i hope that dpkg still works :)
<asac> at least the new files are now in there ... and thats what i wanted
<pitti> processing
<pitti> asac: accepted; so what did you change in the po2xpi scripts now? can we roll this out to rookery as well?
<asac> pitti: i produced it on rookery
<pitti> asac: ah, so there's just one language tarball now? awesome
 * pitti hugs asac
<asac> so its already rolled there ... i added merge logic to the mozilla-rosetta/rosetta_xpi_to_sources script
<pitti> asac: I'll check the next set of automatic PPA updates then
<pitti> ah, I see
<asac> pitti: you run daily PPA updates?
<pitti> asac: twice a week, rather
<asac> just note that for the next few days the .po files for firefox and xulrunner are bogus because a fix landed in launchpad and we have to reimport translations
<pitti> oh, good to know
<pitti> asac: I was planning to copy the PPA to -proposed next Monday
<asac> ill let you know once everything is fine again
<pitti> but then I'll hold off
<pitti> thanks
<asac> yeah ... i just got to know about this today
<asac> but jtv is on it
<asac> but there is good news ... the xulrunner-1.9 update triggered the auto import this time. so at least that appears to work finally now
<pochu> seb128: hey, could you sync gstreamer0.10 for Intrepid?
<pochu> slomo_: ^^
<slomo_> :)
<pochu> \o/
<pochu> yah for the GStreamer stuck in sync with Debian!
<seb128> "stuck"?
<pochu> err, stack :)
<seb128> ah ;-)
<seb128> what was the change there? the symlink upgrade cdbs thing?
<pochu> slomo_: what would you think if I find a new contributor willing to learn and do merges? you have a lot to do and I don't think I'll be able to take care of all of them as I did when Hardy opened
<pochu> seb128: yup
<pochu> and this one
<pochu>       debian/libgstreamer.symbols:
<pochu>       + Don't use the binary registry for now, too intrusive change for
<pochu>         hardy and we'll switch after release.
<seb128> synced
<seb128> ok
<pochu> thanks!
<ember> heya
<asac> pochu: you have a list of merges you would like to give away?
<asac> pochu: i have someone in mozillateam who needs more on his list for MOTU application :) (jazzva)
<seb128> pochu, slomo_: do you know if some of the gstreamer updates are bug fix versions we should consider for hardy updates?
<pochu> asac: I have tracker and liferea, feel free to ask him to give them
<asac> pochu: ok ill ask once he shows up
<mantiena> pitti: I mean than you could recommend me :) I'm good bugreporter :)
<mantiena> pitti: or you could mention me at least in http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/hal/ubuntu/revision/235 :)
 * mantiena wanna to become ubuntu member, so, I need to document my contributions to Ubuntu, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MantasKriauÄiÅ«nas
<pitti> mantiena: aah, I see
<mantiena> pitti: btw, maybe we need to forbid hal toÂ queryÂ theÂ PolicyKitÂ databaseÂ toÂ enforceÂ privileges in hal.postrm if ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿we "allowÂ halÂ toÂ queryÂ theÂ PolicyKitÂ databaseÂ toÂ enforceÂ privileges" in hal.postinst ?
<pitti> mantiena: I'll put a blob on your page
<mantiena> pitti: thanks
<hggdh> seb128: good morning
<seb128> hello hggdh
<seb128> hggdh: so the cpu issue seems to be due to the e-a-n run?
<hggdh> seb128: yes, it seems so. I sort of expected that, but we still do not know why
<seb128> no
<seb128> I'm pondering dropping the autostart desktop if upstream doesn't respond to the issue
<hggdh> a bypass is to take out e-a-n from the suto start-up, but this would break notifications everywhere
<hggdh> s/suto/auto/
<seb128> well, we added it for this reason
<seb128> I've the impression upstream doesn't care a lot about non evolution users
<hggdh> now that I am home, I will set up one system I have to try to get it
<seb128> or rather they use evolution so they don't miss notifications because it has not been started
<hggdh> I agree -- chats I had upstream... they tell me to get more data,
<hggdh> but we have gotten a lot of data already
<seb128> right, I'm wondering what exactly they want now
<seb128> we got debug stacktrace, strace logs, we know it's triggered for users not using evolution
<hggdh> interesting is that only Ubuntu seems to have been hit so far
<hggdh> it is triggered for evo users also
<seb128> well, the autostart desktop is an ubuntu patch
<hggdh> ah
<seb128> so not so surprising
<seb128> upstream relies on evolution being started and running e-a-n
<hggdh> ah... so there!
<seb128> who do you speak to about this issue upstream usually?
<hggdh> anyone online, mchra, mbarnes, srag
<seb128> ok
<hggdh> AFAIR mbarnes and mchra were the last
<hggdh> now one thing I do not understand: if e-a-n is used elsewhere in Gnome, why isn't e-a-n autostarted on every distro?
<hggdh> also, what would happen is we autostarted e-d-s before e-a-n?
<seb128> hggdh: other distros get no calendar notifications until somebody starts evolution
<hggdh> seb128: so... either Gnome sports (and announces) calendar notifications, or officially drops this to only Evo users
<seb128> well, that's something GNOME should look at fixing yes
<seb128> hggdh: starting e-a-n before e-d-s causes no issue on my box, e-d-s is just autospawned as it should
<seb128> hggdh: I just tried several evolution --force-shutdown && /usr/lib/evolution/2.22/evolution-alarm-notify
<hggdh> seb128: I have been trying also, and never got it -- but, then, all I had was linux64
<hggdh> seb128: this is why I want to install hardy32 on one of my machines
<hggdh> my hunch of being related to one single CPU did not pan out :-(
<seb128> I'm using only 32 bit installs
<hggdh> darn! another hunch goes down the drain!
<seb128> I don't think it's so low level issue
<mantiena> ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿/me wonders why pitti wanna put Binary Large OBject (BLOB) on my page...ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿
<seb128> must be a race somewhere in the e-d-s code
<hggdh> what is weird is that some users have it occasionally, and others almost always (secretlondon, for example)
<seb128> races can be weird ;-)
<hggdh> yeah
<hggdh> on one of the loops all that I could see were very fast poll () -- like glib got lost
<hggdh> and continuous poll() with a timeout of zero would indeed cause some CPU use
<seb128> right
<hggdh> now this is why I still think it is related to glib -- applications do not have that low access to poll, or g_hash_*
<seb128> that's weird that nothing else trigger the issue if that's a glib bug
<hggdh> I also agree. Must be something on how e-a-n starts up. But the e-a-n code is quite simple, and looks very much (to my ignorant eyes) like a standard glib usage
<hggdh> so we go back to e-a-n and e-d-s iteraction -- and, still, glib
<hggdh> because glib is the glue between both
<pochu> ember: feel free to ping me if you need sponsorship for your exaile merge ;)
<pochu> ember: or if you can't do it, let me know, I'll find some new contributor willing to do it! :)
<pochu> there's people on ubuntu-motu-mentors asking for merges so should be trivial
<pochu> ^-- that's for everybody in the channel, if you don't want to do your merges... although you will have to help the new contributor if he has issues with it ;)
<ember> yeah i think you can give that merge to one of those people
<ember> i'm waiting till i get a chroot of intrepid created (because of perl bug)
<pochu> ah, ok
<pochu> well actually I have requested some syncs without test-building them, but this soon in the cycle I don't think that's very important... as they built in Debian and the auto-syncer doesn't test-build them prior to sync packages :)
<pochu> and I don't think I'm the only one here ;)
<pochu> actually cdbs seems to be uninstallable in the buildds
<ember> if nobody looks for exaile i can do it later at night
<ember> but you can sync evolution-rss
<ember> :p
<doul_doul> Hello !
<doul_doul> Can you help me about gDesklets (is #ubuntu-desktop the good channel ?)
<doul_doul> I would like to put a desklet always on top
<doul_doul> is anybody here ?
<andreasn> doul_doul: you can try #ubuntu , this is a development channel
<andreasn> I have no idea how to do it myself
<doul_doul> okay, thank you
<mantiena> pitti: ï»¿May I expect your blob on my ubuntu wiki page, which you mentioned at 17:40:54 ?
<mpt> Ugh, it's pretty annoying that the Screen Resolution window doesn't fit in 640x480
<seb128> mpt: because other applications do fit nicely on that? ;-)
<mpt> seb128, I'm testing applications that don't, and it would be nice to be able to use the mouse to go back to my normal resolution afterwards :-)
<mpt> (testing, and providing design fixes for)
<seb128> mpt: I was just reading bug #224229
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 224229 in gnome-control-center "Quite hard to change screen resolution back to normal when resolution is set very low" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/224229
<mpt> seb128, +1 to Bryce's comments
<mpt> The "Detect Displays" button taking up as much room as it does is ridiculous
<mpt> GTK should refuse to make any button more than 250% the width of its label ;-)
<andreasn> mpt: did the Brasero bug where it asked if you wanted to set it as default get solved?
<mpt> andreasn, according to the Bugzilla comment yes. I haven't confirmed it myself.
<seb128> mpt: I'm not sure those will be enough to get it fitting on screen though
<seb128> mpt: you would like better an non expansed button there?
<seb128> that would look weird no?
<andreasn> mpt: I just noticed evolution throws up a pretty similar icky dialog, so I wanted to check that it was technically possible to insert "Current Application X"
<mpt> seb128, sure, it would look weird either way, which is a clue that it's in the wrong place
<mpt> andreasn, I'd be (pleasantly) surprised if the Brasero peeps had implemented that detail
<cody-somerville> gicmo, looks like we're room mates in Prague.
<seb128> mpt: still, I'm not sure it's possible to make GNOME works correctly on 640x480, and who is used that on normal installations anyway?
<andreasn> mpt: right
<mpt> seb128, people with subnotebooks
<mpt> like that eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeepc
<seb128> mpt: I wrote "normal" on purpose, mobiles are a different target and have adapted interfaces
<mpt> subnotebooks != mobiles
#ubuntu-desktop 2008-05-07
<dholbach> good morning
<huats> morning everyone
<asac> mvo: what about bug 19021 ... is that suitable for hardy-updates?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 19021 in synaptic "Should run dpkg --configure -a automatically" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19021
<asac> or better: do we have a safe fix for it?
<mvo> asac: give me a sec
<mvo> asac: this is implemented in update-manager now, it will fix some common mistakes
<asac> mvo: safe to take for SRU?
<mvo> the update-manager bits are part of hardy already
<mvo> for synaptic that would be a new feature, I don't think we could get it pass the release team
<asac> oh ok, so ill state that and mark wont fix for hardy. thanks
<asac> i approved for intrepid
<mvo> update-notifier will show a error symbol (not sure if it detect dpkg --configure -a by itself, but it does a lot of broken situations) - when you left click on it, u-m will kick in and do the repair action
<mvo> asac: how come you triage those? or is this part of a general milestone cleanup?
<asac> mvo: well ... i looked at the hardy bug list and found this.
<mvo> cool, thanks
<asac> done
<asac> any way to tell power manager to set powersave governour instead of ondemand when on battery?
<mvo> seb128: I was debugging a update-manager hang the other day and it seems like it hangs here: http://paste.ubuntu.com/10700/ (strace)
<mvo> seb128: tihs is in the dist-ugprader, do you have any idea if for svg something else needs to be initialized beside the normal gtk_init() (that is run when importing gtk)
<seb128> mvo: no idea no, are you sure that's the thread hanging and that the hang is due to the svg? did you get a gdb stacktrace?
<mvo> seb128: it looks like it, I'm digging into it a bit more
<seb128> mvo: do you have steps to trigger the bug easily?
<mvo> not easily :/
<mvo> seb128: what beside libgdk-pixbuf2-dbgsym and libgtk2.0-0-dbgsym will I need for #6  0xb78d5b26 in ?? () from /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0 ?
<seb128> mvo: the dbgsym seems to be borked, try the dbg maybe
<mvo> #4  0xb755ff59 in ?? () from /usr/lib/libgdk_pixbuf-2.0.so.0
<mvo> No symbol table info available.
<mvo> oh well
<seb128> grumpf, need to rebuild gtk I guess
<seb128> mvo: I'm not sure how to debug that, I blame it on pitti that's due to dbgsym thingy I think ;-)
<mvo> :)
<mvo> that is ok, I think I found a workaorund for now, I need to wait for feedback from my users
<seb128> I hate this thing
<mvo> what thing?
<mvo> bugs in general ?
<seb128> neither the gtk dbg nor the dbgsym are working in hardy
<seb128> no, debug symbols issues
<seb128> it makes almost impossible to debug crashes we receive
<seb128> my local builds have working dbg variants
<seb128> so I guess it's due to the binary mangler but I don't know why it's breaking things
<seb128> and to make things easier dbgsym are not available for hardy updates
<mvo> seb128: ok, thanks. I will rebuild it after lunch
<seb128> I'm debugging
<seb128> bad pkg-create-dbgsym, no cookie for you
<seb128> pitti: ok, so pkg-create-dbgsym is buggy and break gtk debugging
<seb128> pitti: that's what gtk does
<seb128> dh_strip -s --dbg-package=libgtk2.0-0-dbg -Nlibgtk-directfb-2.0-0-udeb
<seb128> dh_strip -s -plibgtk-directfb-2.0-0-udeb
<seb128> pitti: and pkg-create-dbgsym don't respect the package specified in the second call and stip everything again
<seb128> s/stip/strip
<seb128> which means the dbg and the dbgsym are b0rked
<seb128> pitti: do you think that doing an export NO_PKG_MANGLE=1 between the calls would be a good workaround?
<seb128> no need to export, rather NO_PKG_MANGLE=1 dh_strip -s -plibgtk-directfb-2.0-0-udeb
<seb128> hum
<seb128> "dh_strip -s -plibgtk-directfb-2.0-0-udeb" seems buggy in fact
<seb128> dh_strip -plibgtk-directfb-2.0-0-udeb should do the trick
<pitti> seb128: give me a second, currently discussing with Matt
<seb128> sure
<pitti> seb128: do we have a bug# for the broken mass-storage camera handling?
<seb128> is it broken?
<pitti> seb128: i. e. nautilus mounts them, but doesn't check for a DCIM/ folder, as g-v-m did
<seb128> works for me since you enabled g-v-m again
<pitti> g-v-m handles libgphoto, calls f-spot
<pitti> but mass-storage cams are mounted, not libgphoto'ed
<seb128> a right
<seb128> again due to the gphoto gvfs backend being disable
<seb128> pitti: bug #208467
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 208467 in nautilus "Camera Device button "Open F-spot Photo Manager" doesn't work" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/208467
<pitti> right
<pitti> thanks, seb128, you are faster than google :)
<seb128> you are welcome ;-)
<seb128> it's in my few unread bug mails
<seb128> ie, things to reply on
<pitti> I mark it for .1, ok?
<seb128> sure
<seb128> I think we should consider enabling the gvfs gphoto backend
<pitti> seb128: I just fail to see what the gphotofs backend has to do with it?
<pitti> seb128: it doesn't (shouldn't) handle mass-storage cams
<pitti> mdz's problem is that the "open f-spot" button in nautilus doesn't work
<seb128> right
<seb128> the feature relies on having a DCIM directory available
<mdz> is this bug 208467?
<pitti> mdz: ^ on your empty camera, do you have that?
<mdz> if so, what information can I add to the bug?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 208467 in nautilus "Camera Device button "Open F-spot Photo Manager" doesn't work" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/208467
<seb128> but that's the gphoto code which does the handling I think
<mdz> pitti: yes
<seb128> mdz: it is yes, no information is required I think, it just needs somebody working on fixing the issue
<pitti> it might be the cleanest way to enable gphoto, fix the fuse-mount (so that it works with non-gvfs apps), and disable it in g-v-m again?
<mdz> seb128: ok, the comments seemed to say it was fixed in g-v-m but I see there is a nautilus task still open
<seb128> pitti: yes
<pitti> right, g-v-m was a kneejerk fix for hardy final
<seb128> mdz: right, we disabled the gvfs code and used g-v-m again in hardy
<pitti> I guess we can emulate that with an USB stick which has DCIM/ and a few jpgs in it?
<seb128> yes
 * pitti only has a gphoto camera
<seb128> pitti: you can ignore the dbgsym issue description I made before, the second dh_strip call in the package is simply buggy, I'll fix it after lunch
 * seb128 lunch now
<pitti> seb128: ok, thanks
<pitti> lunch, good idea
<seb128> pitti: ok, can you accept the gtk sru upload?
<seb128> it should fix the dbgsym build
<seb128> mvo: bug #227723 for the record
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 227723 in gtk+2.0 "non working debug variants in hardy" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/227723
<mvo> thanks seb128
<seb128> mvo: did you figure what was the svg issue then?
<mvo> not yet, I *think* its something evil with threading a stuff, but I don't know yet
<pitti> seb128: thanks for that; I'll have another SRU round in a bit, yes
<Amaranth> mvo: do you have the bug number for the animation fixes?
<Amaranth> dunno if they made it into -proposed yet, just want to see if i've got a dupe of that
 * mvo wonders if archive.u.c is slow for everybody just now
<mvo> Amaranth: I think the bug in animation was #220631
<Amaranth> d'oh, i was looking in compiz :P
<Amaranth> mvo: can you reproduce bug 218489 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 218489 in openoffice.org "Graphical interface freeze when switching between OpenOffice and another window" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/218489
<Amaranth> seems to be the same thing
<mvo> give me a sec
<mvo> I think I have -0ubuntu5 installed already
<mvo> I created a ~compiz ppa btw
<Amaranth> yeah, i've used it before
<Amaranth> wait, maybe that was your ppa
<mvo> yeah, I used mine but that is not ideal - the ~compiz is better, then you can upload as well without sponsoring
<mvo> I think I can not reproduce it with 0.7.4-0ubuntu5
<mvo> let me downgrade
<pochu> asac: hey, Liferea's upstream dev added Xul 1.9 support to both 1.4 series and trunk. That wasn't from your patch though, but from a different one which was sitting in the patch tracker and that doesn't break Xul 1.8 support... you may want to have a look at it. http://liferea.svn.sourceforge.net/liferea/?rev=3849&view=rev
<asac> pochu: how can i see the complete diff for that commit?
<asac> pochu: they have think XPCOM_GLUE == GECKO_1_9 ... which is not really true. but if it works for us. fine
<pochu> asac: I haven't tested it yet, but I'll try to do it before the 1.4.16 release
<seb128> hey pochu
<pochu> hi seb128 :)
<seb128> pochu: interested to get the gthumb new version to hardy?
<pochu> mvo, Amaranth: do you know Kristian LyngstÃ¸l?
<Amaranth> yep
<Amaranth> pochu: why?
<mvo> pochu: yes
<pochu> because he's my room mate for UDS and I did never hear about him ;)
<pochu> seb128: there's already a debdiff in the bug, did you see it?
<pochu> seb128: I've never used gthumb so I'm not very interested on it tbh...
<Amaranth> pochu: well, he is a compiz-fusion guy
<seb128> pochu: that's an intreprid update rebased on debian no?
<seb128> pochu: ok, that's alright, I will try to find somebody else interested then
<Amaranth> pochu: cool guy, bit heavy on the sarcastic humor sometimes though :)
<seb128> pochu: I'm too busy to do it but I think we should get the update in hardy, so it's only the matter of finding somebody wanting to do the work there ;-)
<pochu> I'm sarcastic too :)
<Amaranth> pochu: remember that if it sounds like he says something bad :)
<pochu> although I'm sarcastic in Spanish... not sure how I'll do in English ;)
<Amaranth> before i met him in real life i actually thought he was a jerk, the humor doesn't come through well on IRC :P
<Amaranth> but you should get along fine
<pochu> seb128: ah, ok. I could review it if that's what you want but gthumb is in main anyway so you (or some core-dev) will have to re-review it ;)
<pochu> heh
<seb128> pochu: no, somebody needs to do the update for hardy and look at the launchpad bugs that can be closed, etc
<seb128> pochu: I can do the reviewing
<pochu> ah, right
<pochu> but the update for Hardy wouldn't be more or less similar to the one for Intrepid?
<seb128> no, sru are minimal changes, so it's an update using the hardy version and not the debian one
<pochu> ah, I thought we wanted to put the new upstream for Hardy too
<pochu> although that would make more sense to go to backports, right
<pochu> so what needs to be updated for Hardy? backport some patches from the new release?
<seb128> pochu: right, I was suggesting doing the version update for hardy, just do it using the hardy version and not the current debian one
<seb128> to not include extra packaging changes where it's not required
<seb128> s/do/doing
<pochu> ok, understood now :)
<seb128> well, usually that would be a backport thing
<seb128> but hardy is a lts and we will do a 8.04.1 so getting bug fix updates there makes sense
<seb128> seems that gthumb has quite some users and the new version fixes several annoying issues
<pochu> ok, let me have a look
#ubuntu-desktop 2008-05-08
<DShepherd> whoa, attempting to install dolphin on ubuntu offers a bunch of kde packages. http://pastebin.com/m77ba1e66. Is there no other way?
<johanbr> I thought Dolphin was a kde file manager?
<DShepherd> johanbr, i thought so too
<johanbr> Well, a kde program needs kde packages.
<DShepherd> johanbr, but amarok?
<johanbr> Oh, it depends on amarok? That seems a little... wrong.
<DShepherd> johanbr, oh wait, it seems aptitude is a little too bright. apt-get seems to be saner
<DShepherd> johanbr, not sure why aptitude gives me such a long list
<johanbr> Probably because aptitude installs recommends by default.
<DShepherd> johanbr, yeah it seems so
<dholbach> good morning
<mvo> does anyone here know what theme in dapper uses svgs (heavily if possible :)
<mvo> ?
<Solarion> seen the ars technica review?
<seb128> which one?
<bhale>           http://arstechnica.com/reviews/os/hardy-heron-review.ars
<bhale> this one
<Solarion> yes
<Solarion> guess so then.  :)
<Solarion> I especially like the guy whining in the comments that there's no review of Vista.  Apparently the in-depth coverage over and over and over again wasn't sufficient.
<Solarion> man compiz is awesome
<seb128> pedro_: sorry for the gnome-panel flood, I changed the confirmed bug which have an upstream task to triaged
<pedro_> seb128:  that's alright, I'm marking them as read already
<seb128> too many bugs
<seb128> we are not doing a too bad job on the desktop ones, but there is still lot to triage
<pedro_> indeed, I've seen a lot of noise lately too :-/
<DShepherd> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/exaile/+bug/227899 -- are we going to fix this bug?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 227899 in exaile "exaile music player fails to fetch album covers" [Undecided,New]
<mvo> Amaranth: do you have more stuff for compiz pending? I would like to do a sru this week
<Amaranth> mvo: I never had anything :P
<firzul> hello
<firzul> wondering if anyone can help me out
#ubuntu-desktop 2008-05-09
<Streett> can anyone help config sound?
<Streett> Just came from UbuntuStudio..
<Streett> Crimsum had to go
<Streett> Crimsun are yopu here?
<Streett> you
<Streett> I am in sound preferences
<Streett> in Ubuntu..running on a Dell Dimension 3000
<Streett> Headset is enables, through USB plu..Tying to get sound from the YouTube platform
<Streett> ALSA inside Events Check through a Sound Test Good
<Streett> Same for Music and Movies Test is Good
<Streett> Audio Conferencing ALSA Test Good
<Streett> Audio Conferencing : Sound Capture Which should be my config?
<Streett> USB Audio: Sound Cannot Hear
<Streett> Tried ALSO for this and Cannot hear
<Streett> ALSA
<Streett> Everyone out for Dinner?
<dholbach> good morning
<krekon> the hotkeys for compiz in order to rotate cube manually is Ctrl + Alt + left-click (Desktop). it doesn't work for me. is it happen because of my old graphics card (GeForce 4 MX)?
<krekon> how could I change hotkeys?
<huats> hello everyone
<fta> seb128, can i do the merge for cairo in intrepid ? and drop the buggy_repeat bandaid in the process..
<seb128> fta: sure
<fta> ok
<seb128> should this one being dropped in hardy updates too?
<fta> good question. it should be safe but it needs testing
<ember> hia
<fta> seb128, http://paste.ubuntu.com/11107/ is that clear enough for you ?
<fta> hm, band-aid patch.. it's redundant
<fta> seb128, what do you need ? diff.gz ? debdiff against ubuntu ?
<Levantado> Hello, some body can answer on Questions?
<asac> seb128: yes, can go in -updates.
<Levantado> I connect Lcd TV on hdmi to pc and my video out good, but on all side crops some image, how fit screen to real size of Lcd panel?
<ember> for -proposed i change the version into .1 and assign motu-sru right?
<pitti> seb128: any idea about the 'extra nautilus window' in bug 201462?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 201462 in gksu "nautilus-gksu stopped working in hardy" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/201462
<pochu> ember: I'm not sure what's the current policy for the version, but the team is motu-sru for universe and ubuntu-sru for main, yup
<ember> i always thought X.X was for security ones
<seb128> fta: debdiff against debian or ubuntu as you want
<seb128> asac: ok, thanks
<seb128> pitti: no idea without looking at the code
<Amaranth> pitti: does `gksudo nautilus /etc/X11` do it too?
<Amaranth> perhaps nautilus-gksu is just calling it wrong
<ember> seb128 as for some gnome merges we can drop previous changelog entries and just put "* Sync with Debian bla bla" ?
<seb128> ember: yes, but I'm not looking at doing any GNOME merge so early, still working on hardy
<ember> yes its too early, i was just looking of some merges on mom and changelogs
<pitti> Amaranth: no, that works fine for me
<Amaranth> pitti: so nautilus-gksu is launching nautilus incorrectly?
<pitti> apparently so
<Amaranth> eww, why is that in the gksu source package? :/
<Amaranth> looking at the code it seems to just do `gksu nautilus /etc/X11/`
<pitti> hm, weird
<mpt> http://www.theonion.com/content/node/38976
<ted2> mpt: If only all our users could be so good ;)
#ubuntu-desktop 2008-05-10
<hebbal1273> Hi I am having a problem with my webcam, can any body help?
<ember> pochu there?
<pochu> hi ember
<ember> <ember> is there a simple way with debhelper to install a debian/desktop and debian/desktop.png or i have to link in install?
<pochu> ember: you need to use dh_install, yes
<pochu> ember: I assume debian/desktop is a .desktop file, right? If so, I'd rename it to debian/foo.desktop
<ember> it is
<ember> i'm gonna put the png in .install too and call it on rules
<pochu> and call dh_desktop, and dh_icons if the icon goes to /usr/share/pixmaps/ or /usr/share/icons/
<ember> oh wait, there's a file.xpm  in debian/ that is getting into pixmaps
<ember> i just need the desktop file right?
<pochu> hmm, I'm not sure if xdg accepts .xpm icons...
<pochu> vuntz: ^ :)
<ember> lol
<pochu> vuntz: are there any plans to create a 'xdgsu' su wrapper? so that if I have a GNOME/GTK application which needs su rights, I use xdgsu and not gksu in the .desktop file, so it works in e.g. KDE
<pochu> hmm, it already exists? http://webcvs.freedesktop.org/portland/portland/xdg-utils/scripts/xdg-su?revision=1.20&view=markup
<pochu> but it's not shipped in xdg-utils 1.0.2...
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-05-04
<Dannny> hey guys
<Dannny> anybody here?
 * ajmitch thinks he may have been in the wrong place if he was seeking quick answers or support
<calc> bryce_: is alberto alberto milone?
<nhandler> calc: Alberto Milone is tseliot on IRC
<calc> ok
<bryce> calc: yes
<pitti> Good morning
<mpontillo> mornin'! (well, will be in an hour or so for me.)
<mpontillo> hey, so I took a stab at a TODO item: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/epiphany-browser/+bug/332253 ... attached a script that I think will fix the problem if packaged, but I'm not sure what to do next (or if I should have even changed the "assigned to" field)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 332253 in epiphany-browser "Epiphany doesn't mention Ubuntu in user agent string" [Wishlist,In progress]
<mpontillo> thanks ubottu ;)
<didrocks> morning mpontillo pitti
<pitti> hey didrocks
<didrocks> pitti: I was wondering about a patch in gnome-volume-manager
<didrocks> debian/gnome-volume-manager.links: Add gnome-volume-manager-gthumb.sh symlink to /usr/share/gnome-volume-manager/, where it had been shipped in old Ubuntu releases. Since this cannot be changed on system upgrades, this needs to be kept indefinitely.
<didrocks> why providing still this symlink?
<pitti> didrocks: it's pretty obsolete now, since g-v-m isn't being used for handling photos etc. any more
<pitti> and we don't use it at all
<didrocks> yes, I know. Just want to understand the remark :)
<pitti> didrocks: the problem was that the path got stored in the user's gconf db
<pitti> which we can't change on upgrades
<didrocks> pitti: we can't use g2conf-tools to update it?
<didrocks> in some kind of postinst script?
<didrocks> gconf2-tools*
<pitti> no, we mustn't touch /home in maintainer scripts
<didrocks> pitti: ok, thanks. I understand now :)
<mpontillo> mornin' didrocks. really morning now ;)
<didrocks> hey seb128. We have to get ready for GNOME 2.27.1, right? :)
<pitti> seb128: bonjour! had a good weekend?
<seb128> didrocks: you can, I'm still catching up on jaunty bugs and doing merges for my part today
<seb128> pitti: hello, excellent thanks! you?
<didrocks> seb128: great, I will follow them :)
<seb128> didrocks: I see no reason to hurry in broken versions so early in the cycle, almost nobody is running karmic yet anyway
<didrocks> ok seb128, I will not hurry too, so :)
<pitti> seb128: it was great; we did the traditional camping/hiking on May 1, and I helped my parents in the garden (oh, my back!), and we did a barbecue party
<seb128> didrocks: I prefer to get merges sorted first and bugs on shape and start with .2 or .3 for the updates
<pitti> karmic!
<pitti> but I agree that merges are first prio now
<seb128> pitti: I did some gardening too ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: I still have few merges to do, so, ok. I put some priority on this
<seb128> didrocks: gnome-python-extras for example? ;-) debian fixed your build issue
 * pitti also waits for NEW and buildds to catch up, so that he can upload the new gnome devkit crack
<didrocks> seb128: well... I will do gnome-python-extras :p
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> pitti: how busy are buildds still?
<pitti> very
<pitti> https://launchpad.net/builders/
<pitti> except lpia
<didrocks> thoses queues are quite crazy :)
<seb128> didrocks: yeah, some thousand packages synced from debian
<robert_ancell> seb128: pitti:  I have an email regarding how to make progress in the compiz bugflood.  What mailing list do you guys recommend I send it to for feedback?  How wide is the distribution of the desktop mailing list?
<pitti> robert_ancell: I'd post to u-devel@, it's of general interest
<seb128> robert_ancell: is that a call for bug triagers?
<seb128> robert_ancell: you might want to Cc ubuntu-bugsquad
<seb128> robert_ancell: otherwise ubuntu-devel sounds good
<robert_ancell> seb128: pitti: It's more of taking a divide and conquer approach to compiz and being ruthless to maximise our effort.  I'll email both of you and see what you think
<seb128> ok
<seb128> I think that first we should autoclose all crash bugs which didn't get any activity since hardy or something
<seb128> bugsquad might have code ready for that sort of things
<seb128> bryce_ also has quite some scripts to add stock replies, needinfo bugs, etc
<seb128> don't spend hours on every bug trying to understand it in any case
<robert_ancell> seb128: that's exactly what I'm trying to avoid :)
<seb128> success in bug triage is to triage quickly issues which don't seem worth stopping
<pitti> right, it should suffice to go through and decide which are the really bad ones which affect many people
<seb128> ie set those low importance and switch to the next one
<seb128> then you can mostly ignore =< low
<robert_ancell> I think we have to reduce the number of bugs though - just triaging them will still leave too many bugs visible that no-one will ever get back to looking at.  They may as well be closed or merged
<asac> pitti: hmm. commented on xmlrpc-c MIR ... its not the same source as the cmake - e.g. it adds a new set of libs for xmlrpc server stuff
<seb128> right
<seb128> that's why I suggest agressive closing of bugs which have not changed since hardy
<seb128> and perhaps stock reply for bugs which seem rather video driver issues
<asac> pitti: do we care and open a bug for splitting up the binary packages?
<seb128> and perhaps reply for "we don't have the manpower to work on that, please open an upstream bug"
<pitti> asac: it's already split, only the base packages are in main, rest is universe
<asac> pitti: hmm. let me check
<robert_ancell> seb128: but that's passing the problem on.  I think there's value in acknowledging that there are a lot of issues like this instead of closing them which sends the message "not our problem"
<asac> pitti: i thought the server libs are in the base package
<pitti> robert_ancell: they can stay open
<asac> pitti: yeah so the server libs and the abyss libs are in the base package
<pitti> robert_ancell: our goal can't be to have zero bugs on the package, I think
<asac> libxmlrpc-c3
<asac> that package
<pitti> asac: that's in universe
<pitti> we just have the -c3-core package in main
<seb128> hello rodrigo_
<rodrigo_> hi :)
<robert_ancell> pitti: But then you can't see the forest for the trees.  There needs to be a balance between having enough bugs that fixing them is accessible (ideally by third parties) but not loosing all the information that hundreds of bugs gives
<asac> pitti: hmm. so someone did the split up. nice. good
<pitti> robert_ancell: indeed, but then there's also priorities and assignees
<pitti> a bug which is triaged/low/unassigned is basically "shelve"
<pitti> and a "high/triaged/assigned" bugs is on somebody's work list
<asac> pitti: great. so riddell did the split after i talked to him on friday
<pitti> right, he mentioned it in the MIR
<asac> nevermind then
<pitti> asac: the new package isn't published yet, I just NEWed it
<robert_ancell> pitti: so, to follow that strategy on compiz.  If we close the bugs that are "too hard" (e.g. video drivers) and triage everything else (probably to low priority) we will still have 400 bugs with vague descriptions that will just continue to grow.  Anyone not familiar with compiz will not want to put any effort into it - it will just look too hard
<pitti> robert_ancell: video driver bugs should be reassigned, not closed
<pitti> robert_ancell: using priorities more could help there (and being really conservative about "high")
<mnemo> robert_ancell: maybe you can write a spider that checks all the compiz bugs for attached xorg.log that has stacks in them and then bulk assign those to the appropriate video driver...
<pitti> bryce has such scripts like those
<robert_ancell> seb128, pitti: ok, I'll talk to bryce about scripts.  Do
<mnemo> asking people to re-test with compiz off is probably also a good thing that could transfer some bugs to xorg... not that xorg has too few bugs but :) :)
<seb128> robert_ancell: "description not good enough to understand the bug = needinfo + low priority if that doesn't seem a high importance issue"
<seb128> and get some autoclosing going on for all needinfo which didn't get updated for 6 weeks or something
<seb128> then you can get a bookmark listing only open bugs "ie confirmed triaged"
<seb128> and sorted by importance
<seb128> that should give you a reasonable list
<seb128> that give the "NEW" bugs which are too triage
<seb128> and somebody need to go over the needinfo every now and then to close or reopen according to the new comments
<robert_ancell> I just feel it might be hiding the issues rather than than us getting valuable information on how to improve the stability of compiz (and so reduce the number of incoming bugs)
<seb128> I've cleaned a bit pidgin this way
<robert_ancell> seb128: ok, will look at pidgin for ideas
<seb128> half of "old bugs" got submitter replying that jaunty was fixing the issue for them
<seb128> there is not too much to look at, I've been going through bugs not touched recently asking to try on jaunty
<seb128> I got quite a lot of "that has been fixed in recent versions"
<robert_ancell> seb128: particularly in the case of compiz the bugs are not reproducable anyway - they're just random crashes
<seb128> I tend to close one time crashers with no recent duplicates
<seb128> we can still reopen if somebody else runs into the issue again
<seb128> we need to do some statistical work anyway
<seb128> ie we could ignore all bugs which didn't get at least confirmed by 3 users
<seb128> we can't spend hours on every issue which one user got once
<seb128> we have to go for things annoying a lot of users or being important issues
<robert_ancell> and in the case of compiz we have hundreds of reports, and almost none of them having reproducable conditions or likely to be reproduced
<robert_ancell> anyway, I have to go.  Thanks for the feedback
<seb128> you're welcome
<seb128> just set those low importance
<seb128> and don't bother looking to low bugs
<seb128> and get them raised if there is several duplicates
<seb128> we can continue chatting about that tomorrow
<robert_ancell> seb128: yup,  please email me some Karmic work/pointers for tomorrow as I'm not too sure what to do / what others are currently doing
<seb128> robert_ancell: ok will do
<crevette> Hello
<seb128> lut crevette
<crevette> salut seb128
<pitti> seb128: gconf merge uploaded; so you'll take rarian in exchange?
<seb128> pitti: yes
<pitti> splendid; 6 merges to go then..
<seb128> mvo: any reason you let bug #318268 on avahi?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 318268 in avahi "package libavahi-glib1 0.6.23-2ubuntu2 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess dpkg-deb --control returned error exit status 2" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/318268
<seb128> mvo: that doesn't seem to be an avahi issue ...
<mvo> seb128: let me have a look
<seb128> mvo: thanks
<mvo> no reason
<mvo> I reassigned to dpkg for now, this short read on buffer copy message needs some love
<seb128> mvo: ok thanks
<exoeoeoeoe> http://3x3cut10n3r.mybrute.com/ <-- have fun & good luck
<mnemo> did anyone else get dependency problems / broken package for compiz when upgrading to karmic? I need working compiz to test a -ati patch for karmic
<mnemo> this is the concrete problem I have on karmic --> http://pastebin.com/m4d9ee54a
<asac> mnemo: well. while auto synchs are on its easy< to have dependency problems temporarily
<mnemo> asac: the reason i want this patch into karmic is because I need some bake time there so I can request a SRU for jaunty
<mnemo> asac: how long will the auto syncers be on?
<asac> mnemo: till debian import freeze
<asac> mnemo: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmicReleaseSchedule
<mnemo> aah thats quite long
<asac> mnemo: well. a) i dont know if your problem is something else ;) ... b) if its a temporary issue because of lots of updates going on, you might be able to upgrade in a few hours a few days or so
<asac> mnemo: how do you upgrade?
<mnemo> asac: i had this problem for two days now.. I upgraded by "sed -i s/jaunty/karmic/ sources.list"
<asac> mnemo: and then?
<asac> what command are you using?
<mnemo> sudo apt-get update followed by "sudo aptitude dist-upgrade"
<asac> try apt-get dist-upgrade
<asac> aptitude can be lame ;)
<mnemo> ok
<asac> but look carefully if things get removed you dont want go away ;)
<mnemo> are you on karmic with working compiz btw? if so, then I might have some config issue related to my upgrade
<asac> i havent upgraded yet. want to do some SRU stuff first
<mnemo> k
<mnemo> asac: so, is it possible to SRU without adding patch to karmic first?
<mnemo> my patch causes frequent -ati crashes, its merged upstream and fix has been confirmed by a handful of people
<asac> well. this early in cycle making the SRU and uploading to karmic without using karmic makes sense
<mnemo> aah ok
<asac> baking in karmic is not really useful because a) its not really stable and b) not many use karmic anyway
<mnemo> right
<asac> mnemo: anyway, its important that the same fix goes to karmic
<asac> we want to prevent that there are regressions because the patch was forgotten to add there
<mnemo> its already merged to upstream mesa so it will go in there for sure
<asac> mnemo: well. unless its things like gnome which release time based, you cannot be sure that the next upstream will be ready or in karmic imo
<asac> if bryce said he will do that then just -proposed should be ok
<asac> but talk to him i would say
<asac> he should be responsible to help you get this patch in ... or tjaalton
<mnemo> yea im just waiting for bryce to wake up basically :)
<asac> hehe
<seb128> hello rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> hey seb128
<asac> mnemo: so i cant speak for bryce, but i would think that you shouldnt be required to upgrade to karmic at this point ;)
<pitti> hey rickspencer3, good morning
<asac> hi rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> good afternoon pitti, asac
<rickspencer3> how was the (long) weekend?
<asac> precious
<pitti> awesome
<asac> even the weather was superb friday and sat
<asac> which is kind of a lottery thing here ;)
<seb128> excellent there too
<seb128> and next weekend is 3 days again ;-)
<rickspencer3> oh?
<asac> typical french ;)
<rickspencer3> sweet
<rickspencer3> seb128: Friday or Monday off?
<seb128> friday
<seb128> it's the end of second war day
<rickspencer3> mmm
<seb128> rickspencer3: I will not be there for our weekly call and the meeting tomorrow btw
<seb128> rickspencer3: travelling to london to join the dxteam sprint
<rickspencer3> seb128: ok
<rickspencer3> ok
<seb128> ok, so I've a todolist for the team contributors, what are the preferences to track those? wiki, bugs, txt list stored in some bzr?
<ktenney> howdy, since 8.10->9.04, gdm hangs, /var/log/auth fills with pam_nogin(gdm:auth): cannot determine username
<ktenney> suggestions?
<mnemo> ktenney: can you boot the 9.04 live CD?
<ktenney> haven't tried, don't have one. Should
<ktenney> I make one and get back?
<mnemo> well
<mnemo> ,try that, and if its boots... also try logging out from the live CD
<mnemo> if you log out, then you should see a gdm screen and you should be automatically logged in again
<mnemo> as user "ubuntu"
<mnemo> if gdm hangs on the live CD please open a bug using the terminal command "ubuntu-bug gdm"
<mnemo> and describe what you said about the with logs etc
<ktenney> mnemo: I'll be back, thanks
<mpontillo> morning all
<pitti> rickspencer3: FYI, I updated my specs: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-karmic-symptom-based-bug-reporting and https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-karmic-automagic-python-build-system
<rickspencer3> pitti: sweet
<pitti> rickspencer3: I didn't see any other which I'm drafting, but please let me know if I forgot one
<rickspencer3> I have a lot of work to do regarding those :(
<pitti> rickspencer3: I dropped the webdav debug symbols from the apport one; it's a completely separate topic
<pitti> and probably not feasible time-wise in karmic anyway
<rickspencer3> ok
<pitti> rickspencer3: lot of work> wrt. scheduling?
<pitti> every drafter should be responsible for his own summary etc., you shouldn't do those
<rickspencer3> I have content for many bps that I haven't put in yet
 * pitti proposes desktop-karmic-double-daytime, to be able to cover everything
<rickspencer3> pitti: does automagic build system include an application template
<rickspencer3> ?
<pitti> rickspencer3: it shouldn't, I think
<pitti> it's outside of the scope of a build system
<pitti> rickspencer3: also, I had a quick discussion with this about Seb
<rickspencer3> is it?
<pitti> sorry, "about this with seb"
<pitti> rickspencer3: templates should be in a layer on top of this, IMHO
<rickspencer3> I think we need to create the starting place for developers
<rickspencer3> right, so a seperate blueprint then
<rickspencer3> ?
<pitti> rickspencer3: that would fit into something like your "quickie"
<rickspencer3> right, but quickie needs to assume that it will feed into the automagic build system
<rickspencer3> they go hand in hand
<pitti> rickspencer3: the python build system is on the same level like cdbs or automake
<rickspencer3> I'll go ahead and create another blueprint for desktop-karmic-project-templates
<pitti> it doesn't have an interface for dialogs, GTK GUI, or template  creation
<rickspencer3> pitti: but there needs to a be unified interface for developers
<pitti> rickspencer3: yes, absolutely
<pitti> rickspencer3: and these templates should use that automatic build system
<rickspencer3> so that they can create the projects and publish them from the same set of commands
<pitti> but I wouldn't like it to be one big project blob, since the build system has usages outside quicke, and we shouldn't restrict the templating system to python/that build system
<rickspencer3> ok
<rickspencer3> so there should be a quickie command that invokes it
<rickspencer3> but it should be loosely coupled
<pitti> rickspencer3: quickie would write the minimal setup.py
<rickspencer3> you should also be able to go $quickie publish
<pitti> and the build system is clever enough to "do what I mean" with just a very small setup.py
<rickspencer3> and it uses the automagic system
<pitti> right
<rickspencer3> ok
<rickspencer3> then the other blueprint will be useful
<pitti> rickspencer3: so, wrt. the discussion with seb128, he mentioned that something like this was discussed before
<pitti> rickspencer3: the question was, AFAIR, which scope this project should have
<pitti> rickspencer3: "big": build system, .debs, packaging, PPAs
<pitti> rickspencer3: "small": run from source tree, no build system/packages/PPAs
<rickspencer3> what are your thoughts?
<pitti> "small" would basically operate on a tarball, with the usual limitations you get from not having packages (no i18n, no package updates, no menu entries, etc.)
<seb128> the discussion 6 months ago got people agreeing that it should be an easy way to run prototype
<rickspencer3> I think it should create a deb and/or a ppa
<pitti> and the last time this was discussed it was the "small" one
<seb128> ie just one click on a server, download, run
<seb128> deb and ppa is high barrier to start
<rickspencer3> preferably a ppa
<rickspencer3> I think from the uses point of view, the system starts from creating a project from a template
<rickspencer3> and ends with publishing to a PPA
<rickspencer3> if ppa is too much for a single release, that's fine
<seb128> well, when it's good enough to be properly package you can as well get it in ubuntu
<seb128> what are you trying to solve?
<seb128> make easy for people to get users trying their code quickly?
<rickspencer3> seb128: that's a deep question, and I have a deep answer
<seb128> or having a robust way to distribute code?
<pitti> we can provide solutions for both use cases
<rickspencer3> but essentially, discovering *how* to write an app on Ubuntu is next to impossible
<seb128> we already have a pretty good way to distribute code ... ;-)
<rickspencer3> and then how to distribute it is insanely complicated
<seb128> rickspencer3: and by using ppa you will not make it any simpler
<rickspencer3> seb128: making a PPA is far from simple
<seb128> the previous discussion we had turned around the "you should just have to write some python code and be able to distribute it in one click"
<seb128> right, that's why we were against using deb packaging or ppa when we discussed that
<rickspencer3> but if we define conventions for how to write your python code, then creating a PPA could be simple
<seb128> you still have to deal with the packaging
<pitti> creating a source package from standard-shape python project is doable
<rickspencer3> convention over configuration
<pitti> PPA is a little more than one click, because you need to register an LP account etc.
<seb128> and then users need to add a deb src etc
<rickspencer3> if you follow the conventions, than a program can be written that creates a PPA for you (given that you have an account)
<pitti> we can script that as well, but it's not just one click (because of authentication etc.)
<rickspencer3> if you deviate from the conventions, that's fine, but you are on your own regarding distribution
<seb128> the previous discussion was "go on some website, spot something you want try, click to download, double click to try"
<pitti> seb128: that part should be apt:// URLs, no?
<rickspencer3> seb128: that's on the end user side
<rickspencer3> right?
<seb128> yes
<rickspencer3> I'm talking about opportunistic developers as users
<pitti> making that work involves some changes in apturl itself, automatic fetching of PPA GPG keys, etc.
<seb128> on the writter side it was "write some python, upload in one click"
<rickspencer3> right
<pitti> I think it comes down to what we expect from this
<rickspencer3> but it's "write some python code following some defined conventions, then upload easily"
<pitti> if the limitations (no i18n, no menu entries, no automatic updates) are okay, then distributing tarballs and running from source would work
<seb128> I've the feeling that the while packaging, ppa thing is over-engineered
<pitti> it's just not how we do things in Ubuntu
<seb128> well, that's why I asked what you want to do
<rickspencer3> there are two things that we answer:
<seb128> make easy to distribute and run prototype
<seb128> or distribute anything this way?
<rickspencer3> 1. How the heck do a write a program that runs on Ubuntu? (quickee-like system is the answer)
<mvo_> fetching the ppa gpg key sounds a bit scary
<rickspencer3> 2. How they heck do I get this to my users?
<seb128> we opted for the first one saying that you can turn to real packaging when it's ready to be distributed
<pitti> mvo_: really?
<asac> imo anyone who figures how to package, will figure that there are PPAs ;)
<pitti> mvo_: (we discussed that some days ago already)
<rickspencer3> hmmm
<rickspencer3> this sounds like a good topic for a longer discussion
<asac> rickspencer3: i agree that improving documentation for developers is important
<seb128> mvo_: do you know if there was some notes from the previous uds discussion?
<mvo_> pitti: well, its auto-adding repositories to apturl, something we decided against some time ago
<asac> we should provide the very best to ensure that developers always end up using ubuntu
<seb128> rickspencer3: we already had a full room 2 hours discussion about that at previous uds
<mvo_> seb128: about the download and try thing?
<seb128> mvo_: yes
<pitti> rickspencer3: so, even in the event that it turns out to be the "small" one-click tarball solution, the distutils thing has been one of my pet peeves for a long time, so I'll probably work on it anyway (in my CFT)
<seb128> mvo_: the one where desrt wrote the server and you were supposed to write the client
<pitti> mvo_: no, I meant auto-fetching a PPA's gpg key once you added it
<mvo_> pitti: once you added it manually?
<mvo_> (or via software-properties?)
<seb128> rickspencer3: I'm not really convince that we should make easier for people to distribute debs
<mvo_> seb128: I wrote bits of that :)
<pitti> mvo_: shouldn't matter how it got added; once it's there, we should verify the signature
<seb128> rickspencer3: we already have tons of those and difficulties to figure what is good or not
<mvo_> seb128: gritty, I think desrt even came up with something working even
<pitti> mvo_: "auto-fetch and fail on non-match" -> much better than "always complain about missing key"
<seb128> rickspencer3: I would keep deb as a way to distribute proper software and not random quick hacks
<mvo_> pitti: right, this discussion. yes, we can add this
<seb128> otherwise that's the door open to lot of issues
<pitti> seb128: well, .debs would make sure that you can integrate into the menu, can upgrade and uninstall cleanly
<seb128> one other issue is that deb packaging will require sudo rights
<mvo_> pitti: I thought you said "apturl should be able to add PPAs automatically (with keys)"
<seb128> and it's an open door to any abuse
<seb128> where the small tarball solution is user land
<seb128> an no risk for the system
<pitti> mvo_: perhaps, somehow; but I'm not so sure about that
<pitti> seb128: agreed
<seb128> re rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> heh
<rickspencer3> someone disconnected me?
<rickspencer3> :)
<dobey> mvo_: btw, where is that apturl update? i haven't seen anything in proposed for it
<seb128> too many informations? ;-)
<rickspencer3> I didn't realize I was being that controversial ;)
<seb128> rickspencer3: to summarize my opinion I think debs should stay a way to distribute officially supported software, we should not encourage people to install random crap this way
<seb128> rickspencer3: especially that deb are system components, ie the postinst can do anything to the install
<rickspencer3> seb128: what's wrong with PPA?
<rickspencer3> it seems to me that the single point of update is of strong value to users
<seb128> too much informations makes difficult to figure where to find quality softwares
<seb128> I think we should not mix proper software and quick hacks
<seb128> it's already difficult enough to find a software in the current list we have
<rickspencer3> are PPAs "proper" or "quick" hacks?
<seb128> proper
<seb128> as said it depends what you want to distribute
<mvo_> dobey: I uploaded it to -proposed, the masters-of-the-sru queue will have to check and approve
<mvo_> dobey: uploaded Wed, 29 Apr 2009
<seb128> do you want a quick way for people to distribute new cool stuff they work on
<seb128> ie prototypes
<seb128> or do you want it a way to distribute any software?
<calc> rickspencer3: call sounds fine to me... i hit accept but not sure if it went through
<dobey> mvo_: how does a mere mortal such as myself test it then?
<rickspencer3> calc: ack
<rickspencer3> seb128: if I wrote a pencil ordering app for my office, having a single point to update to would be most useful
<seb128> I would say the tarball approch is safer (nothing require sudo, nothing running at the system level) and makes easier to try things without risk of polluting your install
<rickspencer3> but such a ppa shouldn't show up for general usage
<mvo_> dobey: it should appear in -proposed once approved, I think the current ubuntu-sru team (that does the review/approval) is just pitti and slangasek, not sure how often they review the queue
<mvo_> dobey: and of course there was a long weekend now
<seb128> rickspencer3: right, if that's a proper application you recommend to our lambda users
<seb128> which brings we back at what we want to distribute this way
<dobey> mvo_: right. i was hoping to test it and verify that it fixes the bug for my use case :)
<mvo_> dobey: sure, I understand :)
<rickspencer3> seb128: we need a way for application developers to get their apps to their users
<seb128> rickspencer3: the tarball thing was meant as a "here is the cool python thing I started on work on a week ago, it's not really useful yet but you can try it quickly and comment by clicking there"
<dobey> pitti: care to approve the apturl sru then? :)
<rickspencer3> PPA seem good for this
<pitti> mvo_: I spent 1.5 hours on SRU this morning, unfortunately I didn't completely empty the queue yet
<seb128> rickspencer3: one thing I don't like about ppa is that deb are system components, ie how do you make sure the postinst don't format the disk or anything?
<seb128> rickspencer3: who is going to review all those to make sure they don't do anything they should not be doing?
<mvo_> pitti: thanks, I know that its a hard task, especially so shortly after the release, no blame on you
<pitti> seb128: well, how do you make sure that the tarball doesn't wipe your home dir?
<rickspencer3> seb128: right
<seb128> pitti: we limit the access to some jail?
<rickspencer3> that will be a problem when the PPAs are generally discoverable
<dobey> speaking of horribly broken deb packages... adobe is on my stab-in-the-face-list :)
<pitti> seb128: oh, we do?
<seb128> pitti: well that's a way no?
<mvo_> if the package runs in the jail and can't access my data, its most likely not very useful :)
<pitti> seb128: not sure that this is generally effective, since many apps will want to work with your files
<mvo_> i.e. if I want to test a photo app, then it needs to be able to access my photos
<seb128> rickspencer3: my opinion is that we already have to much crap listed
<seb128> ie search for a text editor
<rickspencer3> seb128: listed where?
<rickspencer3> in Add/Remove?
<seb128> see a zillion being listed
<seb128> yes, or synaptic
<rickspencer3> do PPAs show up in synaptic?
<seb128> yes
<mvo_> after they got added, yes
<rickspencer3> I thought you had to subscribe to them for them to show up
<seb128> all the available deb are listed there
<seb128> right, but if you want to install some random demo from a ppa you will get it auto-added
<pitti> rickspencer3: well, once an user decides to use a PPA, we shouldn't have him do the decision a second time
<seb128> and then everything in the ppa will show in synaptic
<rickspencer3> but discovering a PPA is non-trivial
<pitti> right
<rickspencer3> it's not like we're exactly pushing htem
<dobey> well it is right now
<seb128> pitti suggests to make it one click away in a transparent way
<rickspencer3> there's no way to search, etc...
<pitti> seb128: ah, no
<dobey> but i haven't transformed the code in my brain, into actual python scripts yet
<pitti> seb128: I was talking about auto-fetching GPG keys for PPAs which the user added somehow
<seb128> pitti: you suggested using an apt: URI though
<seb128> doesn't that do the add ppa, etc magic for you?
<dobey> otherwise installing something from a PPA would be a 2-step process
<pitti> seb128: yeah, it would be one possibility
<pitti> seb128: but right now, the author has to give instructions how to install the software anyway
<pitti> so as an intermediate step, pointing to a PPA would make it more consistent
<seb128> mvo_: do you have those gritty notes somewhere?
<mvo_> seb128: let me search, but I think I was not part of the discussion, only later when desrt approached me about it
<seb128> ok
<dobey> although adding the stuff to apturl could make it one-step i guess
<rickspencer3> also, don't forget that we are designing for a user here, and that user is not us
<seb128> pitti: I guess my concern is that I want deb to stay a proper way to distribute software we can recommend
<rickspencer3> tools for opportunistic application developers
<seb128> I would encourage random crack to be "download, run, delete" things
<mvo_> dobey: we even have code in it for one-step, but it might turn into a huge support/security issue
<seb128> rather than proper installs
<mvo_> dobey: (in apturl)
<rickspencer3> I don't see much difference to the end user in terms of danger and such between getting a deb and getting a PPA
<seb128> rickspencer3: who is your user target?
<seb128> rickspencer3: ppa == deb
<pitti> seb128: this is tricky; for apps which stick around, and for which the user wants updates, PPAs are much better
<seb128> rickspencer3: the first draft we had was "download one py file and run it", no system install, etc
<pitti> but they are more sticky, it's nontrivial to get rid of them
<rickspencer3> seb128: right, except the PPA provides a single update point, you don't have to push new debs out to users
<seb128> pitti: I feel that first prototype should use the light crappy software system
<dobey> mvo_: the security issue seems rather bogus to me
<rickspencer3> this is why so many people build web apps, the single point of updating is hugely valuab;e
<seb128> pitti: and you can turn to proper ppa use when your application is recommended for lusers
<pitti> seb128: right; well, we could support both modes
<rickspencer3> agreed, I think a deb is appropriate sometimes
<seb128> I totally agree with that
<rickspencer3> but PPAs are extremely useful for deploying software
<pitti> "spit out a runme blob" vs. "upload to PPA"
<seb128> and we distribute all of ubuntu using debs right now
<rickspencer3> I would think:
<rickspencer3> quickee ebd
<seb128> but we control quality what we distribute
<rickspencer3> I mean quickee deb
<rickspencer3> or quickee ppa
<rickspencer3> two different commands
<pitti> "quickee blob"
<rickspencer3> seb128: this isn't about what *we* distrubute
<pitti> for the "./runme" thing?
<rickspencer3> it's about application developers distributing to their users
<seb128> rickspencer3: right, same difference, the "we" being a motu or whoever upload to a ppa
<rickspencer3> seb128: can't anyone upload to a ppa?
<seb128> right
<rickspencer3> I'm not a motu, but surely I could distribute my software that way, right?
<seb128> I'm a bit concerned about distributing random crack as deb format
<seb128> or rather going further this way
<rickspencer3> I don't think it's random to the developers or their users
<rickspencer3> it's just not generally useful
<seb128> making it too easy will mean you will get thousand of cracks added daily
<rickspencer3> but how do users discover that crack?
<seb128> which makes impossible after some time to triage the good information
<pitti> seb128: well, people will install crack they want no matter in which format :)
<rickspencer3> they would have to get pointed to the PPA, and add the sources, etc...
<pitti> if the web site says "do wget | sudo bash", they'll do it
<seb128> pitti: right, but I would prefer to have "get crack" website than having cracks in synaptic
<pitti> heh
<pitti> seb128: I see what you mean
<rickspencer3> we should categorically *not* mix in PPAs with main/universe, etc...
<seb128> so you know that synaptic being the official way you can use that to get software you need to get work done
<rickspencer3> seb128: yes, that is an important distinction
<seb128> and you can get cracks on "crackland.ubuntu.com"
<dobey> well if people stick their crack in PPAs on launchpad, and we use it, we can provide useful feedback to them
<rickspencer3> or you could go to Add/Remove, and somehow turn on "crack mode"
<rickspencer3> but every app in their is clearly labelled with a crack pipe
<dobey> if they stick random tarballs or whatever on their own sites, then there is much less chance we have of helping them improve the things we actaully use ourselves
<seb128> still you add crack to the system, ie apt database gets slower
<seb128> indexes take longer to download
<rickspencer3> and maybe has a certain number of dead junkies to show rating
<seb128> I'm already annoyed by the number of packages we have right now
<dobey> eh, we install plenty of crack by default :)
<seb128> I'm not wanting to pay an extra 30 seconds of index download every time I do apt-get update
<rickspencer3> seb128: We need to encourage Ubuntu as an application development platform, not discourage it
<seb128> and by installing and removing lot of debs the system gets slower over time
<dobey> seb128: then don't add a million PPAs to your system. most users won't really care, because that happens in the background anyway
<rickspencer3> but I agree that we need to differentiate what is part of Ubuntu, and what is delivered by an independent developer
<seb128> rickspencer3: there is a difference between writting softwares and distributing those
<rickspencer3> seb128: not really
<rickspencer3> if you can't distribute it, there's no point in writing it, and if you can't write it, you can't distribute it
<dobey> if the removing makes the system slower, then perhpas apt/dpkg could use some fixes to make it clean up after itself better
<seb128> for one things people writting software usually want those to work on any distro or system
<rickspencer3> that's why most platforms include deployment as part of their sdk
<seb128> and not just ubuntu jaunty or whatever ppa is on
<rickspencer3> seb128: again, this is an opportunistic application developer
<seb128> dobey: yes, dpkg could use some work no discussion
<rickspencer3> if you're writing a pencil ordering app for your office, you really don't care about other distros
<seb128> rickspencer3: I might be over-conservative but I can see the things getting out of control quickly
<rickspencer3> having too many cool applications being created for Ubuntu is a problem I would love to have
<seb128> lol
<seb128> the issue is right there
<seb128> "cool" is what I would like to get
<seb128> but you will get 90% crappy applications
<rickspencer3> but users can just ignore the crap
<seb128> crappy or disappointing
<rickspencer3> it's not like 100% of the apps on the web are great
<seb128> how can they know what is crap or not in those thousand items?
<rickspencer3> how do they discover them in the first place?
<rickspencer3> they won't be showing up in Add/Remove or anything, they'll have to know about the PPA somehow in order to discover it
<seb128> that's a good question ;-)
<seb128> the issue I've with a ppa is that you don't add a specific software
<pitti> seb128: discovery is entirely separate from the mechanics of distributing them, I think
<rickspencer3> pitti: agreed
<seb128> but a source which might have one good software and 800 craps next to it
<seb128> and those will be listed as well in synaptic, apt, etc
<rickspencer3> and we can defer solving that problem until we have the problem of too many apps :)
<dobey> don't PPAs have disk quotas?
<seb128> a crappy pygtk application takes few space
<seb128> you can probably ship hundred of those in the quota limit
<dobey> yes, but how many people are really going to write 800 crappy pygtk apps in their one PPA?
<seb128> I've seen people storing lot of random things in their ppa already
<dobey> although, i think all pygtk apps are crappy :)
<seb128> including hacked version of component shipped by ubuntu
<dobey> even mine
<rickspencer3> so crappy PPA set up would be between a developer and their users, would it not?
<seb128> you could end up installing a random linux git version which is there too
<seb128> rickspencer3: well, users don't realize what they do, they will click to try gwibber, the ppa get added
<seb128> rickspencer3: and next time they "upgrade" they get this git GNOME build which is also in the ppa
<seb128> and nautilus doesn't start
<rickspencer3> this problem exists today though
<seb128> and users are screwed, ubuntu reputation gets damaged in the way because "ubuntu broke"
<seb128> yes
<seb128> and that's why I would not encourage extra ppa use until we solve it
<rickspencer3> I don't think we solve it by keeping it hard to make and deploy apps
<seb128> or we need a app-specific-ppa
<seb128> ie one ppa = one software
<rickspencer3> right
<seb128> why does it have to be hard?
<seb128> I was not suggesting to not deploy app
<rickspencer3> seb128: it *is* hard
<dobey> what we need is for launchpad to have PPAs on projects
<seb128> what they discussed 6 months ago was simpler than your ppa approch
<seb128> it was a website 1 click solution
<dobey> instead of having to create a team to own PPAs
<asac> hmm
<rickspencer3> seb128: I'm open to that
<dobey> so that you have a direct connection between a PPA and a specific app
<rickspencer3> whatever is the deployment mechanism
<dobey> or project anyway... a project might have multiple apps
<seb128> I think I would be happy with the 1 software by sources.list entry
<seb128> ie if you could say "I want to get nautilus-launchpad from rick's ppa"
<pitti> seb128: what was the gut of that, tar'ing it up and add a runme.sh which sets up PYTHONPATH=. etc.?
<seb128> pitti: right, it was designed for easy run of prototypes
<seb128> pitti: the rational was that softwares good to be distributed to any user should be properly deb packaged then
<rickspencer3> so the developer basically hosts a web page where they drop their app, and users add that page to their sources list by clicking on a link?
<asac> rickspencer3: that was the idea of apturl
<seb128> the frontend is a bit orthogonal but yet
<asac> rickspencer3: we have the third party repository requirements
<pitti> I understood it as they'd directly download an executable big script which unpacks and runs itself
<seb128> we could have a portal for all those apps
<rickspencer3> asac: that's what I was getting at
<rickspencer3> okay, good discussion
<asac> rickspencer3: otherwise we explicitly didnt want to make all ppa available that easily
<asac> because of quality concerns
<rickspencer3> it's clear that we have some good options for end users actually getting the applications
<asac> if we wanted that we could make a tiny PPA searcher app or something
<asac> but i wouldnt wnat to have that in apturl ... because thats really too easy to trigger from websites
<rickspencer3> and that we are in agreement that we can put into place a developer workflow that goes from creating a project from a template to deploying it to users getting it
<rickspencer3> quickie -> automatic python -> PPA/apturl/foo
<asac> yeah.
<pitti> rickspencer3: if we don't produce packages, we don't really need a build system either
<seb128> we need a portal to list those applications and let user do rating etc
<rickspencer3> pitti: would we not produce packages?
<rickspencer3> I assumed that debs would be at the heart of whatever we do
<pitti> rickspencer3: we would for PPA, we wouldn't for the "small scale" approach that was discussed half a year ago (which Seb explained)
<rickspencer3> I would think users might want to create a deb, burn it to a disc, and distribute that way (or put it on an ftp server or whatever)
<seb128> then you need to know about build requirements, etc
<pitti> seb128: we can automate those
<seb128> which again raise the entrance level
<asac> pitti: so the idea is something like small python extensions that are just pulled from bzr?
<pitti> but "deb" without "ppa" is possible as well
<seb128> pitti: for python yes, for C... how?
<rickspencer3> right
<pitti> seb128: I don't even start thinking about small GUI development in C :)
<pitti> that's far away from the target audience, I think
<asac> please lets not start doing a source distro ;) ... arch-all python snippets might make sense to maintain like extensions out of package
<asac> but binary stuff shoudl still be packaged properly imo
<asac> gives you all the auto-depends and so on
<rickspencer3> I would think that the "small" way would put a deb on a server someomen
<seb128> pitti: making python packaging is something which would benefit anyone
<seb128> +easier
<hggdh> even python -- how you check for dependencies?
<pitti> asac: for python the main task of the build system is to merge translations, put the .desktop file into the right place, etc., all of which isn't necessary if you don't build a package at all
<pitti> seb128: right, which is why I want to do that anyway
<seb128> hggdh: look for all the "import" and look what packages ship those?
<pitti> writing setup.py is mostly a redundant and boring task
<pitti> ask dobey :)
<asac> pitti: yeah. so even for python we need packages
<asac> and packages are not really hard to do imo with cdbs
<pitti> asac: "we need" -> "I need it for apport and jockey", but not "Joe developer needs it for his pencil ordering app"
<pitti> asac: it should be possible to run pretty much any python app right out of the source tree, without messing with setup.py etc.
<asac> pitti: right. thats what i said above.
<asac> but i dont get what needs to be improved?
<pitti> asac: did you ever use python's distutils?
<asac> i never ran a serious python projects in the last years ;)
<pitti> asac: I want this to be 5 lines (description, license, author) http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Ejockey-hackers/jockey/trunk/annotate/head%3A/setup.py
<pitti> asac: and this to go away entirely: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Ejockey-hackers/jockey/trunk/annotate/head%3A/setup.cfg
<asac> heh. yeah. i never understood why python build system is such a mess
<seb128> which is somewhat orthogonal from the distribution discussion
<asac> right. that sounds like a upstream build system problem
<seb128> making python packaging easier would benefit everybody
<asac> besides from that a package should imo be trivial enough. if users dont like that they can still use bzr branches directly. if we think thats important we can start to maintain a "ubuntu-python-tinyapps-central" repository
<seb128> no discussion about that
<asac> and build a UI/cmdline to search/checkout those apps
<seb128> then there is the discussion on how we push softwares to users
<pitti> asac: a mess? ever looked at automake/autoconf? :-)
<asac> seb128: yeah. if its packages, its PPA ... if its just bzr branches its the frontend for the "ubuntu-python-tinyapps-central"
<asac> repostiroy
<asac> pitti: yes. thats well understood ;)
<mvo_> seb128: python-packaging-easier++
<asac> pitti: problem is that python world introduces new build systems every month and all dont bring much benefit over auto tools
<pitti> that's what I meant with "pet peeve of mine"
<pitti> asac: oh? distutils is around for ages, and so is setuptools
<pitti> I don't know another one, actually
<asac> yeah. then there is scons
<asac> which is used by chromium
<pitti> scons isn't a Python build system
<asac> absolutely wasted energy to learn that imo
<pitti> well, it's written _in_ python
<asac> its not better than any autotools stuff
<pitti> but I never saw a python project using scons to build itself
<pitti> asac: it's better design-wise, but clumsy indeed
<asac> yeah. i might mix things up ;). i retract the claim ;)
<pitti> I tried it once, too, I was curious
<asac> its good if its trivial
<pitti> I haven't looked at cmake yet
<asac> if you want to do things non-trivial its like banging your head against the wall ;)
<pitti> sounds like autobreak :)
<asac> problem is that with all this new stuff there are no established best practices and users choosing minority build systems without having a damn good reason just cause higher entry barriers
 * pitti has fought with the gthumb merge for half an hour and still didn't figure out WTF broke in the autotools build system
<asac> yeah. but autotools is so old and knowledge has completely diffused in the free software community ;)
<asac> meaning: you will always find someone in your neighbourhood to help you fix autotools stuff ;)
<pitti> yeah, autotools being old and crappy is the only advantage to the "new and less crappy" build system s;)
<pitti> anyway, /flamewar, need to get some things done
<asac> you are right. i just say that the improvements are too incremental that those dont make sense
<asac> and thats why there is no clear winner ;)
<asac> yeah. better working ;)
<james_w> pitti: paver, zc.buildout, pip
<pitti> james_w: never heard about them
<james_w> zc.buildout is what the LP stuff now uses, so I'm going to have to learn it soon :-/
<pitti> none of them are packaged, are they?
<james_w> seems not
<james_w> ah, pip isn't a build system, my bad
<asac> lool: does the mobile team any demands for karmic wrt browser stuff?
<seb128> chrisccoulson: are you still working on the gnome-session update
<seb128> ?
<lool> asac: Good question
<chrisccoulson> hey seb128 - yes, i did start doing that
<seb128> chrisccoulson: ok good thanks
<lool> asac: I can think of the clutter-mozilla thing as being relatively hot for moblin 2
<seb128> chrisccoulson: you will rebase on debian right?
<lool> But I don't think it's in a reviewable shape ATM
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i've done that already. we've still got quite a delta to debian though
<seb128> Ampelbein: let me know if you are available for some extra merges on debian
<lool> Otherwise, keeping an eye on Fennec would be nice, that's all I can think of
<asac> lool: moblin 2 timeline?
<seb128> chrisccoulson: ok
<Laney> seb128: toss some merges over here if you want
<seb128> didrocks: what do you have on your merge list?
<lool> asac: It's due real soon now, and we will integrate it in karmic, probably in june or so
<Laney> where is the GNOME component work assignment list?
<asac> lool: oh moblin 2 is what we talked about already. thought it was the NEXT ;)
<seb128> Laney: alacarte gnome-settings-daemon
<Laney> okey dokey
<asac> lool: ok thanks. so keeping up with fennec is the only task mobile wise. on top probably just connman for network management.
<asac> lool: oh i forgot, probably not only mobile, but NM UI still isnt small screen ready, right?
<asac> lool: maybe we should tackle that this cycle too somehow
<lool> asac: I'm sure OEM and UNR folks would be delighted by such a proposal  :)
<asac> lool: mobile has no issues with that?
<lool> asac: For the moblin spin, we'll probably use connman, even if not ready, but for UNR: yes definitely
<lool> asac: We're integrating UNR, so yes, we have issues
<asac> lool: heh ok. will that moblin spin be based on jaunty?
<lool> in MID it's horrible, but then MID is not really at the top of our priorities :-/
<lool> asac: Correct, but I guess we'll prepare it in karmic first, and then do some PPA backports
<seb128> Laney: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/TODO is sort of the list but I'm pondering moving that to bugs or bzr storage
<asac> yeah. ok. so we need backports for those and for latest connman
<asac> those == small screen changes
<lool> That would be nice
<asac> btw, chromium dailies look really promissing i have to admit
<lool> Really?  would have thought it would take much longer
<asac> lool: you can do browsing and tabs also work
<asac> the preferences dialog and so on doesnt exist that
<asac> but i guess thats the easier part of it
<asac> of course its 32bit only ... but the ia32build also works almost as good as i386
<lool> What about flash and a11y?
<asac> good point ... i would think that doesnt work ;)
<asac> https://edge.launchpad.net/~chromium-team/+archive
<lool> Thanks
<asac> wrong
<asac> https://edge.launchpad.net/~chromium-daily/+archive
<asac> lool: ^^
<lool> ah
<asac> karmic builds arent there yet
<lool> You could have a /ppa and /chromium-daily now  ;)
<asac> lool: yes. but those were created before
<asac> lool: i have to talk to ppa folks about a migation strategy
<asac> we have other PPAs that could be consolidated now
<asac> but just moving isnt nice ;)
<lool> Anyway, lots of exciting stuff :)   /me returns to holidays mode and cleaning stuff around   ;)
<asac> lool: oh. holiday. sorry for the noise. enjoy!
<lool> Oh np, I'm on IRC so it's fine :)
<asac> stupid question, where are the "default" groups a user gets configured?
<asac> adduser.conf seems to not be it
<chrisccoulson> asac - when added with users-admin?
<asac> *shrug* ... whatever the ubuntu "default" way is i guess
<chrisccoulson> if you add a user with users-admin, it gets it from /etc/gnome-system-tools/users/profiles
<asac> yeah
<asac> found it
<asac> great
<asac> hmm. user claims that it dip is not there by default
<asac> seems to be wrong
<calc> yipee it looks like OOo might actually be going towards real modularization upstream :)
 * calc is reading a thread from late last week about it
<vuntz> jcastro: dudie. Just want to apologize, it seems I didn't reply to your last mail in our mail discussion. But I'll reply :-)
<bryce> mnemo: asac is right that we should put this into karmic too.  Even though we will have a new mesa there before too long, it's worthwhile for the extra testing if nothing else
<bryce> mnemo: however I can take care of that, so no worries
<mnemo> bryce: i managed to screw up my karmic box it seems
<mnemo> ah great
<pitti> hey bryce, good morning
<pitti> hello calc
<jcastro> vuntz: no worries, it's a busy time for everyone. :)
<vuntz> jcastro: but I want to be sure that you don't think I stopped loving you ;-)
<bryce> pitti: heya, hope you had a decent weekend
<pitti> bryce: it was great indeed, lots of exercise; how about you?
<bryce> pitti: it was ok, although I've been emailed rants about the intel perf issue that kinda bums me out
<didrocks> seb128: gnome-python-extras (:p), keepalived, tracker, and no GNOME component, apparently!
<seb128> didrocks: want to do gnome-python and gnome-python-desktop too?
<pitti> bryce: *shrug* we can't do much more than pointing to workarounds, I'm afraid
<didrocks> seb128: ok, not for tonight, but it will be ok tomorrow :)
<seb128> ok good, thanks
<pitti> bryce: the 965 issue worries me more; there was a comment saying that the patch overwrites the xorg.conf setting instead of just changing the default
<didrocks> seb128: once again, just say thanks when it's done :p
<seb128> ;-)
<bryce> pitti: yep, they're just pissy we didn't stay back on 2.4.
<pitti> *shrug* it's there for them to install
<bryce> pitti: yeah I saw that bug report and plan to look at it today.  The patch should not do that though (it checks for existing virtual settings), but maybe the check isn't complete enough.
<pitti> bryce: btw, what's the magic command to show the current virtualsize setting?
<pitti> bryce: Keith used one in his demo, but I didn't see the actual command
<bryce> xrandr | grep maximum
<pitti> aah
<pitti> thanks
<nikkiclau> Hi.
<nikkiclau> Anyone here ever had the issue, or knows how to resolve when one is wanting localization settings such as punctuation and date settings while having the default translation?
<pitti> you could set LC_TIME to a different locale than LANG (or LC_MESSAGES); please see "man locale" for more information
<ktenney> mnemo: help with gdm hanging?
<mnemo> ktenney: did you get a chance to try the live CD yet?
<ktenney> liveCD is fine
<mnemo> ktenney: you got back to gdm when you logged out and then it logged you in again?
<ktenney> yes
<mnemo> right, okay... so you have some config issue on your machine then ;/
<ktenney> right
<ktenney> seems pam related
<ktenney> pam_nologin(gdm:auth): cannot determine username
<ktenney> possible to disable pam?
<ktenney> or ... what config files should I look at?
<mnemo> not sure actually..
<pitti> good night everyone, Taekwondo time
<mnemo> pitti: gl hf
<ktenney> there was a forum post, another fellow, same issue, no answers yet
<mnemo> ktenney: when you said "gdm issue" I was thinking maybe gdm failed because of some xorg related issue, in that case maybe I would have been of more help...
<mnemo> ktenney: try asking in #ubuntu maybe
<ktenney> no, get X, timer icon on blue field
<ktenney> ok, though it's like the birdhouse at the zoo there, was hoping for a quiet solution here.
<bryce> mnemo: uploaded
<mnemo> bryce: excellent.. thanks a lot
<ktenney> hoping a gdm/pam guru would be around
<nikkiclau> damn .. went afk and pitti's gone
<nikkiclau> But actually I was wondering about a user-friendly way.
<calc> rickspencer3: ping
<rickspencer3> calc: callling in?
<calc> oh oops i didn't realize it was a callin one
<calc> doing so now
<rickspencer3> k
<rickspencer3> awe: hi!
<rickspencer3> calc: 2455480861
<calc> ok in the conf now
<calc> my phone cut out
<rickspencer3> awe: welcome to the desktop team for Karmic!
<rickspencer3> calc: I assume we're skipping our weekly call this week?
<calc> rickspencer3: yea sounds fine to me
<calc> rickspencer3: we already covered most of what we would talk about
<rickspencer3> calc: don't forget, we've got your back
<rickspencer3> if you need anything, just let me know right away
<calc> ok
<calc> i'll try to get an email written up for the group about what to do as far as triage later today so that if there are any questions it can be discussed during tomorrow's meeting
<calc> i already described it in the wiki but i can give more details about my specific work flow than what really is appropriate for the wiki bug page
<asac> calc: is that about "how to build/update" openoffice?
<calc> asac: how to bug triage OOo :)
<asac> ah ;)
<calc> asac: i think i should be able to handle packaging OOo in 20%
<calc> but i can also add the build/update for if someone wants to try out patches, etc
<asac> ah so you are sliced ;)
<asac> a piece of calc please :)
<calc> heh yea
<asac> whats the status of the "intel" performance bug?
<asac> was there any news i missed?
<rickspencer3> asac: yes
<rickspencer3> bryce has identified a mitigation for i965
<rickspencer3> essentially, setting virtual screen size mitigates the crash and boosts perf
<rickspencer3> there is a patch in proposed to do just that
<asac> rickspencer3: great. i have a firefox performance regression bug. i will ask them to test -proposed. which package is that? xserver-xorg-video-intel or more?
<rickspencer3> as well as compiz (to unblacklist i965)
<asac> hmm.
<asac> is that a hard blacklist? or just a default?
<asac> e.g. can affected users still enable compiz manually?
<crdlb> hard
<crdlb> it can be overridden by the user, but not with the gui
<rickspencer3> asac: there are lots of instructions for enabling compiz
<rickspencer3> attached to the bug and such
<asac> crdlb: ok thanks. they only talked about appearence dialog i guess. so probably not their bug
<Ampelbein> seb128: hi, just got back home. i updated the debdiff to bug 369395 and am ready for another merge.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 369395 in gnome-vfs "Please merge gnome-vfs 2.24.1-1 from debian unstable" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/369395
<rickspencer3-afk> should be an interesting thread to watch: http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/8hsbo/how_do_you_pronounce_ubuntu/
<rickspencer3-afk> funny anyway
<seb128> Ampelbein: hello, ok I will have a look after dinner, you can look on rebase seahorse on debian and updating it to 2.27 too for karmic if you want
<Ampelbein> seb128: ok, will do.
<seb128> good
 * seb128 dinner, bbl
 * awe heading home...back online in an hour or so...
<calc> pitti: ping
<artir> OOBOONTOO
 * asac out for a bit
<Ampelbein> seb128: one question about seahorse. you say "rebase on debian" but debian still has 2.24.1, not 2.26.1 according to packages.debian.org. so i just update to 2.27.1, right?
<seb128> Ampelbein: no
<calc> Ampelbein: probably look in experimental
<calc> hmm nm its not there either
<calc> i guess in the pkg-gnome (or whatever then)
<seb128> no
<Ampelbein> calc: i searched for all distributions
<seb128> but we have 2.26.0-0ubuntu and we synced on 2.20.1-2 previous time
<seb128> so use debian 2.24.1
<seb128> and apply ubuntu changes and update using that
<Ampelbein> ah, ok.
<seb128> ie we want all the debian changes between 2.20.1-2 and 2.24.1
<calc> ok that makes more sense :)
<seb128> seahorse is something where we should not have too much changes in ubuntu
<Ampelbein> seb128: but won't we always be ahead of debian with gnome?
<seb128> right
<seb128> we still aim at giving back there things which could be useful and lower the differences
<seb128> that benefit debian and that makes our job easier
<Ampelbein> seb128: ok, understood.
<Ampelbein> seb128: but the changes-file i generate is still based on 2.26.1 in ubuntu? so that only the files in debian/ represent the state of 2.24. in debian plus ubuntu-changes?
<seb128> hum?
<seb128> I usually don't merge changelog entries
<seb128> what I do is take the debian source
<seb128> dch -v 2.27.0-0ubuntu1
<seb128> Then write "new upstream version"
<seb128> and then I summarize the ubuntu changes
<seb128> and I apply those to the source by looking at the previous changelog and diff to see what is still revelant
<seb128> ie you want to add again the ubuntu keyring change
<seb128> so you write that in the changelog and copy the patch over there
<seb128> and you continue going through the diff until there is no ubuntu change that need to be applied
<seb128> then you can look if there is some new requirement in 2.27 and do those changes too
<seb128> that makes sense?
<Ampelbein> seb128: ok, so i just drop the changelog-entries?
<seb128> right
<seb128> just summarize all the changes in the current one
<seb128> don't copy the "lp: #nnnn" or change the format though
<seb128> to not spam the same bugs number again
<Ampelbein> ok.
<james_w> that's fixed in LP, it won't keep trying to close bugs from changelog entries if they are already closed
<seb128> james_w: it will not add the comment either?
<james_w> correct
<Ampelbein> seb128: we have a seahorse.preinst to remove the conffiles obsoleted by version 2.23.5, debian has not. do we keep such a change?
<seb128> Ampelbein: if 2.23.5 was after hardy yes
<Ampelbein> seb128: oh, just noticed. debian has a changelog-entry that it took the change from ubuntu, but they do not ship the .preinst file mentioned. i'll file a bug with debian?
<seb128> look to the next ones if they dropped it by mistake perhaps if not open a bug
<Ampelbein> seb128: no further mention so i guess it's a bug. another question: the watch file should also look for unstable version in ubuntu?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - any idea why gnome-session has a build-depends on xtrans-dev in ubuntu but not in debian?
<chrisccoulson> i can't find anything in the changelog which explains it
<mpontillo> Anyone know if there is an easy way to do the equivalent of "apt-get source <package>" from the command line, but grab the corresponding Debian source package instead of the Ubuntu version? (Modify sources.list maybe?)
<dobey> you can just download the source off packages.debian.org's web site too
<dobey> although that's not command line
<mpontillo> Hm. Maybe I'll hack up a quick deb-src-get script then
<Laney> mpontillo: there is pull-debian-source in the ubuntu-dev-tools package
<mpontillo> Laney: thanks, I'll check it out
<seb128> you can add a debian source
<seb128> and apt-get source binary=version
<mpontillo> thanks for the tips - pull-debian-source did exactly what I wanted. I like that you can also specify the release, as well. (adding the debian source directly could be handy at times, might have bad side effects if I'm not careful - like if I forget it's there, no?)
<seb128> well not really bad, you can download a debian source where you want an ubuntu one if it's newer in debian yes
<Ampelbein> seb128: i get a "dh_desktop" is deprecated for seahorse (http://paste.ubuntu.com/164503/). apparently this comes from gnome.mk, included in the rules-file. should I care for this?
<seb128> Ampelbein: no, don't bother
<Ampelbein> seb128: ok, bug 371871 ready for review
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 371871 in seahorse "Please sponsor version 2.27.1 in karmic" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/371871
<seb128> Ampelbein: I've it locally already thanks ;-)
<seb128> the bug emails have been quicker than IRC ;-)
<Ampelbein> seb128: ok, but i changed something to the diff.gz recently, made a mistake in debian/control.in, missing ',' after gnome-pkg-tools
<seb128> you can summarize NEWS changes when you do new version updates btw, some users like to read those
<seb128> right, I got the new version
<Ampelbein> seb128: should i add new version with NEWS-changes?
<seb128> Ampelbein: what do you mean?
<seb128> I usually write
<seb128> * New upstream version:
<seb128>  -
<seb128>  -
<seb128>  -
<seb128> where the enumerations are the NEWS items
<seb128> without the translation changes which are not that interesting
<Ampelbein> seb128: yeah. should i change the update to include this? it's only two changes. (one, if you don't count translations)
<seb128> no don't bother
<seb128> there is nothing too interesting to list in this one ;-)
<seb128> that's handy when you want to close bugs in launchpad too
<Ampelbein> seb128: i usually do this, when there is important change. but adding old changelogs does not seem to be.
<seb128> right, there was only the context menu thing which was worth listing
<seb128> hum
<seb128> there is a mistake in the update
<Ampelbein> seb128: what's the issue?
<seb128> Ampelbein: the html documentation is already shipped in seahorse binary
<bryce> pitti: fix for virtual override uploaded
<seb128> there is a reason why the .install had the zillion lines
<seb128> rather than just the share directory as debian do ;-)
<seb128> Ampelbein: already -> also, ie you have the .html in 2 binaries
<bryce> pitti: fix was pretty obvious and easy; in fact someone else came up with it independently (bug 371544), so I gave him the credit
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 371544 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "xserver-xorg-video-intel doesn't respect screen virtual resolution in xorg.conf" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/371544
<Ampelbein> seb128: ah, i see. didn't check that one, thought the "most specific" entry in *.install "wins".
<seb128> no, it just copy everything listed
<Ampelbein> seb128: i'll fix that and will list the NEWS in a new upload.
<seb128> ok thanks
<seb128> it's time to go to bed there but I will review it tomorrow
<seb128> if you are looking for other things to do you can have a look to do the same thing for gnome-media too
<seb128> ie rebase on debian if required and update to 2.27
<seb128> see you tomorrow
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-05-05
<rickspencer3> why does two weeks of writers block melt away right when I have to take care of my kids
<rickspencer3> curse you muse!
<Mayuresh> Good day fellas....
<Mayuresh> I need help with connecting my 1 TB hdd with my laptop using ubuntu.
<Mayuresh> Its failing after sometime, after writing around 58 M
<Mayuresh> I have the dmesg output with me and have already searched the net for any useful information, but didn't get any.
<Mayuresh> any help is much appreciated.
<mpontillo> Mayuresh: you might have better luck in #ubuntu; this channel is a much more limited audience. I would suggest that you pastebin any relevant dmesg output first. see http://paste.ubuntu.com
<Seven-7> Arrrrgh. Does anyone know how to get help support for Evolution?
<Seven-7> It's freezing on opening.
<Mayuresh> mpontillo: Thanks. I'll also place this question at #ubuntu. In the mean time, I have pasted the output: http://paste.ubuntu.com/164643/
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> calc: pong
<pitti> bryce: thanks, I processed it last night
<robert_ancell> pitti: hello
<pitti> robert_ancell: good morning, how are you?
<robert_ancell> pitti: good, trying to get the hang of karmic packaging.  Is there anything different to do than a normal package update?
<pitti> robert_ancell: not really, in what way?
<pitti> karmic right now is in the "anything goes, break it" stage
<robert_ancell> pitti: In that I open a bug with the debdiff and subscribe the main sponsors?
<pitti> robert_ancell: for a new upstream version it's better to attach the source package's diff.gz
<pitti> robert_ancell: so that we don't have to wade through the upstream diff
<robert_ancell> pitti: do you need the orig.gz then?
<pitti> robert_ancell: if a package is in bzr, just commit to the branch and ask us to upload it
<pitti> robert_ancell: for GNOME packages we know where to get them from; for other packages, an URL to the orig.tar.gz is fine
<robert_ancell> pitti: and if it needed modification due to directory naming?
<pitti> robert_ancell: a repacked orig? then please put it on your people.u.c. page or attach it
<robert_ancell> pitti: when you merge a debian changelog with an ubuntu one do you keep all the entries?
<pitti> robert_ancell: we usually do, although admittedly I "flush" them from time to time
<pitti> since a merge requirement is to give a detailled list of remaining ubuntu changes
<pitti> robert_ancell: oh, you are merging from Debian?
<pitti> robert_ancell: wrt. orig.tar.gz, when Debian has it, we can get it from there
<robert_ancell> yes, ok
<robert_ancell> I'm working on avahi - I noticed you'd done that one previously
<pitti> right
<pitti> in my times I didn't need to repack the orig, though
<robert_ancell> When you say remaining ubuntu changes do you mean "any change from upstream" - as you listed the patches as provided by debian
<robert_ancell> and the patches that are obsolete - should I list them in the changelog?
<pitti> robert_ancell: no, "ubuntu changes" are relative only to Debian for merging
<robert_ancell> ok, easy (in this case we have none)
<pitti> robert_ancell: the patches shoudl usually document themselves, with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/PatchTaggingGuidelines
<pitti> robert_ancell: if we have zero changes, we can sync
<robert_ancell> pitti: most aren't. I have been tagging mine
<pitti> robert_ancell: if our only remaining delta is the changelog, or some obsolete cruft, we sync
<pitti> that's in fact the ideal case
<robert_ancell> ok, how do we trigger that then? avahi failed the automerge
<pitti> once we have done our homework and pushed patches to upstream and packaging fixes to Debian, we are in sync and can stop maintaining a delta
<pitti> robert_ancell: if you are sure that the remaining delta is zero, request a sync with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess
<pitti> in short, "requestsync avahi karmic" should do
<robert_ancell> pitti: ok, once the sync is complete and there are other changes should I push those to Debian so we keep the sync?
<pitti> robert_ancell: "other changes" -> "future changes"?
<robert_ancell> yes (I don't want to sync then immediately fix a bug)
<pitti> robert_ancell: yes, we should, if it's packaging related
<pitti> code changes should better go into the upstream bug tracker
<pitti> robert_ancell: well, syncing in between has the advantage to have a really clean slate again
<robert_ancell> sure
<robert_ancell> pitti: again, when I look at glade it appears that should by synced too - is there anything special I should be looking out for in the debian/ directory?
<seb128> hey robert_ancell
<seb128> robert_ancell: did you get my email?
<robert_ancell> seb128: hey seb - you're giving me easy packages to merge again
<seb128> is that ironic? ;-)
<robert_ancell> yes, as far as I can see both avahi and glade can be synced with debian
<seb128> I didn't look at the diff but basically at the list of things not merged yet and picked some of your packages there
<seb128> oh, that would be good ;-)
<seb128>     - debian/rules: Create an up to date PO template during build.
<seb128>   * Python 2.6 transition (fixes FTBFS)
<seb128> those are in debian now?
<robert_ancell> the PO template thing is.
<seb128> I'm a bit surprised since the po thing is specific to ubuntu for language packs and python2.6 is not used in debian yet that I know about
<robert_ancell> ok, no then I'm confused
<seb128> ah good, somebody must have sent the change to lower the delta and they took it
<seb128> robert_ancell: ok, you are right, pitti sent them the change and they applied it
<seb128> robert_ancell: tomorrow you can do gdm which is a non trivial one ;-)
<robert_ancell> seb128: so what was the python 2.6 fix, I'm looking at the bug and the source but I can't see what it is.  And if we merge do we use the builds from Debian or build them locally?
<seb128> we grab the source from debian and upload that
<seb128> it's built on ubuntu
<seb128> robert_ancell: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/avahi
<seb128> robert_ancell: you have the diff for each upload there
<seb128> the change is basically site-packages -> *-packages
<seb128> the python directory used in 2.6 changed
<robert_ancell> ok, I see now.  So we can't sync because we need that change
<seb128> right
<seb128> but you can send the patch to debian
<seb128> there is no reason they couldn't do that, that still work for site-package and they will get 2.6 too
<seb128> so we can sync with there next upload
<seb128> if you didn't oversight other changes too ;-)
<seb128> robert_ancell: they don't have Keybuk's change either
<seb128> 0.6.23-4ubuntu3
<seb128> robert_ancell: and they still enable ipv6 apparently that we don't
<pitti> seb128: no, I've been sending POT creation patches to Debian for years
<robert_ancell> POT?
<seb128> pitti: right, but they didn't take it until recently
<seb128> robert_ancell: intltool-update call
<seb128> pitti: it was still listed in the summary of changes when we rebased previous on debian
<pitti> right
<seb128> anyway there are the 3 others changes
<seb128> python2.6 site-packages -> *-packages
<seb128> runlevel
<seb128> ipv6
<seb128> which still need to be applied
<pitti> robert_ancell: you are looking at the current ubuntu patch that MoM creates?
<seb128> I found those patches not practical when you have different versions
<pitti> I love them
<seb128> I usually diff the debian directories between current debian and ubuntu
<pitti> I usually grab the Debian version and the current ubuntu patch, and then walk through teh Ubuntu patch and throw out the obsolete stuff
<pitti> and then apply the rest
<robert_ancell> I'm not sure how to use MoM
<seb128> I will let pitti explain since I don't use it
<pitti> robert_ancell: I almost never take the automatic merge, since it's often unclean, and it can't check which changes aren't really required any more
<robert_ancell> pitti: where are the files that MoM generates?
<pitti> robert_ancell: the only things I use from MoM are the current Ubuntu diff and the fact that a package needs merging (and by whom)
<pitti> robert_ancell: https://merges.ubuntu.com/main.html -> click on package -> remove '/REPORT' from URL
<robert_ancell> oh
<pitti> i. e. https://merges.ubuntu.com/a/avahi/avahi_0.6.23-4ubuntu4.patch is the current Ubuntu patch
<seb128> the package names should rather point to the directory than to REPORT
<seb128> I find myself removing the REPORT every time and wondering why it's the default
 * pitti too
<seb128> you can easily click on it and back to go back to the directory
<robert_ancell> another question: debian bumped the soname from 5 to 6 when they went from 0.6.23 to 0.6.24, any idea why?
<pitti> ugh
<seb128> because the library soname changed?
<seb128> that's an upstream thing usually
<seb128> libraries are name libname.no.SONAME
<seb128> where SONAME is a number
<pitti> only two packages depend on libavahi-core5, so that transition is easy
<seb128> when they break the compatibility in the abi they bump this number
<seb128> so that doesn't break applications using the old abi
<seb128> and you install the new abi next to it and start rebuilding things using this one
<seb128> the package renaming is to allow installing both versions
<seb128> and have a smooth transition
<mvo> I personally use grab-merge and work based on this because it often has quite good results for me (checking the debdiff afterwards carefully of course)
<seb128> I fail to see how that's better than a diff -Nru of the debian directories usually
<seb128> you just lot of extra noises when the versions are not the same
<pitti> mvo: it discourages you from actually checking which of our delta can be dropped, though
<pitti> seb128: you don't get a three-way diff that way, though
<robert_ancell> i see.  The avahi guys aren't keen on keeping ABI within minor releases.
<mvo> pitti: not really, the debdiff of the merge (against the debian version) needs to be checked afterwards for this as well. but I guess the workflow is pretty equivalent in the end, just approaching it from different directions
 * robert_ancell thinks the avahi package will take some more time
<seb128> pitti: I find that not required in most cases, especially if your changelog has an accurate summary of changes from the previous merge already
<seb128> anyway everybody has his own workflow ;-)
<pitti> I'm just eager to drop delta
<pitti> sure
<seb128> one other thing I don't bother doing that quite some people do is to copy over old ubuntu changelog entries
<pitti> same for me
<pitti> if we have a good merge summary, it's just redundant
<seb128> robert_ancell: see that was good that you had an easy one to start ;-)
<mvo> I think old changelogs are often useful (and one of the things that you get with the merge from mom)
<seb128> mvo: I summarize all those in the current entry
<seb128> quicker to read than trying to go over all the old uploads
<seb128> and that wins some CD space ;-)
<seb128> especially for GNOME where we copy the NEWS each time
<mvo> seb128: fair enough in case of NEWS I guess
<pitti> seb128: you should *really* use Seb Bacher to save 6 bytes for each changelog record :-P
<mvo> haha
 * seb128 hugs pitti
<Nafallo> lol
<robert_ancell> good day all!
<robert_ancell> (that was an inverted good night)
<pitti> robert_ancell: enjoy the evening!
<seb128> robert_ancell: good evening!
 * crevette shouldn't do uplaod with its long name
<robert_ancell> :)
<pitti> robert_ancell: or, rather: ÊÉ¥ÆÄ±u pooÆ
<huats> morning everyone !
<seb128> lut huats
<huats> hello seb128
<seb128> huats: how are you? how is your business going?
<huats> seb128: I am fine
<huats> and I try to start the business
<huats> it is not that easy but I have some possibilities :)
<huats> I think I'll know more by the end of the month :)
<huats> well for the moment I am mainly focussing on putting together all the pieces
<huats> :)
<seb128> ok, good luck
<seb128> still as busy?
<seb128> but still going to uds?
<huats> still going to th uds :of course seb128
<huats> I am still busy
<seb128> I'm wondering since you seem to not be around a lot recently
<seb128> so I was wondering if you would still manage to get time for uds
<huats> In fact I am around but not chatting
<huats> :)
<huats> it is weird for someone as talkative than I am :)
<seb128> lol
<huats> Need to logout
<pitti> seb128: your X-GIO-NoFuse=true patch in f-spot, do you know whether that's reported upstream?
 * pitti is tagging our patches
<pitti> bug 338466
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 338466 in f-spot "Fspot doesn't load pictures from my digital camera" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/338466
<seb128> pitti: I don't think I sent that upstream no because I was not sure that was the right way
<seb128> ideally it could be using the fuse mount but for some reason that sloooow
<pitti> probably because it generates thumbnails from the real pictures isntead of using the camera's thumbnails?
<pitti> (that's what we had in gthumb)
<seb128> could be
<pitti> all our other patches are reported upstream now
<pitti> (if only they'd apply them)
<seb128> I hate the bugzilla.gnome.org slowness
<pochu> the good thing is that it makes launchpad feel fast ;)
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> mvo: you are a vm user right? what do you recommend on jaunty to have something usable? ;-)
<seb128> I use kvm -cdrom iso to boot live cds
<seb128> and virt-manager for installs but virt-manager is the suck, mouse location keeps being wrong, it it doesn't go in some screen corners
<huats> seb128: if you move the mouse quite fast you can reach that corners
<huats> seb128: i am doing that all the time :)
<seb128> huats: it's not fast, you need to go against the opposite border rather
<seb128> yeah, me too, but that's annoying so I'm looking for better suggestions
<huats> yeah opposite AND going fast to the corner you want to reach :)
<seb128> and something I could switch full screen too would be nice
 * pitti just uses kvm in CLI mode
<huats> ok
<pitti> kvm -m 512 -cdrom ubuntu.iso -hda testubuntu.img -boot d
<seb128> pitti: is there some magic command to get an hdd in kvm so you can install something? ;-)
<seb128> oh
<seb128> easy enough
<seb128> and testubuntu.img need to be created using some other tool?
<pitti> seb128: -hda, -hdb, etc. -boot c -> boot from hd; -boot d -> boot from cdrom
<pitti> seb128: you can use existing ones, or just dd if=/dev/zero one yourself
<seb128> ok thanks
<seb128> I'm pondering upgrading my laptop to karmic yet
<pitti> I have a dd'ed 6 GB testubuntu.img which works just fine
<seb128> or using a kvm install for now
<seb128> I would like to get working beamer, suspend, etc for uds
<pitti> seb128: with some tool you can even mount these images in your host system, for nice and easy file exchange
<mvo> seb128: I just use plain kvm
<seb128> pitti, mvo: ok thanks
<seb128> I will use the office bandwith tomorrow to do karmic and debian unstable kvm images
<pitti> seb128: hah, yay phat pipes
<mvo> seb128: there is also ctrl-alt-f2 with kvm that gives you a useful console to do stuff
<mvo> seb128: like sendkey ctrl-alt-f1
<seb128> ok thanks
<pitti> seb128: if all else fails, I still have a jaunty install on my USB stick which I can boot, so I'm just using karmic
<seb128> is there a way to put kvm in full screen? ;-)
<mvo> seb128: or inject NMI (not that fullful ;)
<seb128> pitti: I've upgraded my desktop but I tend to be a bit conservative with my laptop until uds
<pitti> sounds fine
<pitti> especially if you are still working on some SRUs
<mvo> seb128: -full-screen
<seb128> and usually it's useful for srus too
<seb128> right
<seb128> though I'm mostly done with srus for jaunty I think
<pitti> seb128: I just have one computer, so I need to get along with chroots
<seb128> mvo: kvm for the win apparently ;-)
<pitti> well, I have the G1 for ssh etc., but that doesn't run ubuntu yet
<seb128> "yet" ;-)
<pitti> there was a post on planet recently about wiping android and installing ubuntu :)
<pitti> but how would I do phone calls then?
<seb128> who need to do phone calls on a phone anyway
<seb128> install ekiga and use that? ;-)
<pitti> I'd love to, if only T-Online wouldn't block voip
<mvo> seb128: I like it a lot
<Ampelbein> seb128: hi. i'm currently working on the gnome-media merge/update. scrollkeeper has been deactivated to fix FTBFS, see bug 243573. I tried a build with scrollkeeper enabled and it worked. So do we again use scrollkeeper?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 243573 in gnome-media "Please sponsor gnome-media 2.23.3-0ubuntu2 (main) into Intrepid" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/243573
<seb128> Ampelbein: no
<seb128> Ampelbein: scrollkeeper should be run on the client side not on the buildd
<Ampelbein> seb128: ok, so i drop the build-dep, too?
<seb128> if it's not required
<seb128> I'm not sure how smart the configure is, ie try to pbuilder it without the build-depends
<asac> pitti: so the sudo su -> root @console caused kind of colleteral damage to network manager ...
<asac> pitti: walters said its unfortunate, but he thinks that root shouldnt be @console unless you login at gdm or a real console
<asac> bug 360818 bug 371291
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 360818 in network-manager-vpnc "NetworkManager.vpn fails -- nm-vpn-connection.c.900: NeedSecrets " [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/360818
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 371291 in network-manager "MASTER PPP connect fails if root is @console with pppd_timed_out() - (NetworkManager does not connect to Mobile Broadband anymore in Jaunty (Sierra AC880))" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/371291
<asac> pitti: in particular this means that using "deny" in @console rules is not practical as it will remove permissions from root
<asac> no action needed for jaunty ... we will change the network manager rules to not use any deny in @console ... but i guess we should consider to not make root @console for simple sudo su's
<Ampelbein> seb128: bug 371952 ready for review, see the linked branch.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 371952 in gnome-media "Please sponsor version 2.27.1 in karmic" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/371952
<seb128> Ampelbein: ok thanks
<seb128> Ampelbein: you can do the same for gnome-utils next if you want ;-)
<pitti> asac: oh, do you really rely on d-bus ACLs in network-manager?
<Ampelbein> seb128: will have a look after lunch
<seb128> Ampelbein: no hurry, enjoy your lunch
<pitti> asac: I had hoped that at_console will go away at some time, and we can remove that hack from d-bus (with the /var/run/console/ stamps)
<pitti> Polkit already knows that stuff, after all
<asac> pitti: we rely on dbus acls for some parts ...  look at /etc/dbus-1/system.d/NetworkManager.conf for instance
<asac> pitti: @console going away is probably the right long term thing
<asac> i agree
<asac> i will check with dan how much work is to use polkit everywhere
<pitti> ah, I see
<pitti> asac: so the problem is that if you do sudo -i, that terminal gets a CK session for root, and thus is able to access NM, although it shouldn't be?
<asac> pitti: no. the problem is more devastating :)
<asac> pitti: nm consists of multiple parts that communicate through dbus
<asac> ... all running as root
<asac> now you do sudo su
<asac> and booooom. those parts cannot communicate anymore because the @console "deny" prevents it
<asac> ;)
<asac> so the problem is that @console leads to less permissions for root
<asac> than without @console
<asac> pitti: shouldnt the at_console check actually check whether the process is a child of the console?
<asac> i think i can answer that by myself
<asac> problem is obviously the /var/run/console/ thing ;)
<pitti> asac: I wonder why you need that deny rule in the first place
<asac> is there a different approach for that?
<asac> pitti: without that deny all @console can access that interface
<asac> pitti: we will now use explicit interface allows
<asac> e.g. listing all interfaces that are allowed explicitly rather than adding a generic destination allow with a interface deny
<pitti> asac: that's strange; d-bus should deny access to methods by default
<pitti> it didn't in the past, but that was fixed in jaunty
<asac> pitti: well. there is is a generic allow destination
<pitti> oh, I see
<pitti> asac: right, ignore me
<asac> allow send_destination="org.freedesktop.NetworkManager"/>
<asac> yeah
<asac> so that will be replaced by all interfaces named explicitly ... which is a bit hard to maintain but also makes some sense
<asac> hopefully that works ;)
<asac> seems more users than expected have root shells open while doing networking
<pitti> interesting bug, though
<asac> yeah
<asac> arguably dbus shouldnt deny anything for root user imo ;)
<asac> that would at least reflect the unix best practices
<asac> well old-best-practices. i think with selinux and stuff thats not always true anymore
 * pitti -> lunch and some errands
<Ampelbein> seb128: doing gnome-utils now
<seb128> good
<seb128> pedro_: holla!
<seb128> or "olla"?
<pedro_> seb128: salut my friend!
<seb128> pedro_: how are you?
<pedro_> seb128: hola with just one l ;-)
<seb128> hola then ;-)
<pedro_> seb128: good good looking at some evo bugs, how about you?
<seb128> good
<seb128> pedro_: do you still run jaunty?
<seb128> pedro_: could you help to confirm some of my desktop srus so they can be moved to updates
<seb128> pedro_: some are trivial to test on any config
<pedro_> seb128: yeap, at least for a couple of more weeks for doing SRU verifications
<seb128> pedro_: ok, so could you do some of those on desktop components? ;-)
<pedro_> seb128: sure ;-)
<pedro_> count with that
<seb128> the gnome-settings-daemon ones should be easy (out of the lid close crasher)
 * pedro_ looking at the pending list
<seb128> same about gnome-applets, at least confirming that the update works correctly
<seb128> nautilus too
 * seb128 kicks launchpad
<seb128> now it's playing bugzilla and timeout!
<pedro_> seb128: ok will do those today
<seb128> thanks
<pedro_> yeah it's working freaking slow for me too :-/
<pedro_> seb128: bug 360084 ; it's still an issue with the proposed version of g-s-d and seems to depend on a change to gnome-control-center as stated on the upstream report
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 360084 in gnome-settings-daemon "confirm dialog below main window" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/360084
<pedro_> commit is at http://git.gnome.org/cgit/gnome-control-center/commit/?id=6ea3c02290362ae3e9b4e9259bc72fc0b4ac45d2
<seb128> pedro_: ok, fine, write that on the bug saying that it's still working the same way but not broken in new ways
<pedro_> seb128: ok will do it
<seb128> ie we can move that to updates it doesn't fix everybody but doesn't break either
<seb128> thanks
<pedro_> you're welcome
<seb128> the sru was not especially for this bug but I listed everything fixed in the new version ;-)
<seb128> ok, time to go to catch my plane for the dxteam sprint
<seb128> see you later
<rickspencer3> awe: fyi, our team meeting is in 8 mins
<pitti> uh, https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/sprints/uds-karmic?searchtext=desktop-karmic- is quite well filled
<awe> rickspencer3: thanks!   you might want to update the wiki page, it says 14:00 UTC
<awe> oops, i meant 16:00 UTC
<rickspencer3> pitti: with two rooms, I think we have room for like 36 total or something
<rickspencer3> awe: thanks
<rickspencer3> could you please adjust it (being a wiki and all ;) )
<rickspencer3> I think the fridge is correct
<rickspencer3> 5 days x 5 Sessions per day X 1.5 rooms = 37
<rickspencer3> pitti: sound about right ^^^ ?
<pitti> why 1.5 rooms?
<pitti> that's for desktop + DX + OLS, right?
<asac> meeting?
<rickspencer3> we have two rooms, but should save some space for impromptu meetings
<pitti> or does OLS have their own?
<pitti> rickspencer3: right
<rickspencer3> design and dx
<rickspencer3> I kept OLS in desktop track for now
<rickspencer3> so there are some design-karmic-*
<rickspencer3> and dx-karmic-* sessions as well
<calc> what is OLS?
<rickspencer3> calc: Online Services
<calc> ah ok
<rickspencer3> we should be saying Ubuntu1 now
<rickspencer3> sorry
<kenvandine_wk> yo
<asac> so is this meeting ;)?
<calc> no going to start any second now though
<bryce> heya asac
<rickspencer3> hehe
<asac> hi bryce
<calc> hi
<rickspencer3> meeting time
<rickspencer3> tkamppeter: welcome, are you there?
<kenvandine_wk> i am laggy from the u1 upload that is happening here :)
<rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2009-05-05
<rickspencer3> I believe seb128 is traveling to the Dx sprint in London
<rickspencer3> everyone ready to go?
<kenvandine_wk> yup
<rickspencer3> Riddell: ready?
 * rickspencer3 poke poke
<Riddell> hi
<rickspencer3> Let's go a little out of order, start with introducing awe
<rickspencer3> awe = Tony Espy, and he'll be an honorary desktopper for Karmic!
<asac>  \o/
<pitti> hey awe, welcome to the team!
<kenvandine_wk> welcome awe!
 * awe hey guys, nice to be part of a the new gang!
 * asac waves @ awe 
<rickspencer3> welcome awe!
<bryce> heya awe
<pitti> finally we have our own guitar rock star
<awe> ;/
<rickspencer3> awe: do you want to introduce yourself briefly?
<awe> sure
<awe> i've spent the last 9 months or so as tech lead on the hp mini
<awe> for oem services
<awe> my background is networking plus desktop audio playback
<tkamppeter> hi, I am
<awe> i've also spent a lot of time working with the kernel team and defining how oem plays with the kernel
<awe> look forward to working with you all on karmic
 * awe done w/intro
<rickspencer3> sweet
<rickspencer3> awe: you were a pepper, right?
<rickspencer3> (pepper = worked on Pepper Pad)
<awe> yes.  i build an equiv of network-mgr in java for pepper, plus the audio playback subsys based on helix
<awe> s/build/built/
 * rickspencer3 <3 pepper pad
<asac> awe-some ;)
<kenvandine_wk> haha
<awe> plus i play back up guitar for pitti on "wish you were here"  ;)
<rickspencer3> I know that I speak for everyone when I say that we are really glad to have you on the team, and we're looking forward to seeing what you do in Karmic
<awe> thanks
<rickspencer3> moving on
<rickspencer3> actions from last meeting:
<rickspencer3> ACTION: rickspencer3 to get definitive list of who has talks at all hands to double check that everyone who has one is prepared
<rickspencer3> I totally FAILed at this, but I'm still trying
<rickspencer3> there must be a list somewhere :)
<pitti> the track leads certainly have themm
<rickspencer3> pitti: good idea
<rickspencer3> I was looking for the one list to rule them all, but just pinging track leads should work
<asac> so can we assume that we dont have a talk if we didnt hear anything yet?
<pitti> rickspencer3: or ask cvd, when I talked to her on the phone last week she had the schedule
<rickspencer3> asac: I think that we *shouldn't* assume that yet, as I am concerned that perhaps some emails were filtered out in spam filters
<asac> rickspencer3: who would have sent such a mail?
<rickspencer3> some people got emails saying their talks *weren't* accepted, but it's not clear if this was consistent across tracks
<asac> cvd?
<asac> hmm.
<asac> ok i will check with brian who submitted the talk
<rickspencer3> asac: I'll take care of finding out asap and let you know
<asac> thanks a lot
<rickspencer3> next topic: UDS
<rickspencer3> did everyone get their blueprints in?
<kenvandine_wk> yup
<bryce> asac, the email started with, "ENLARGE your member ship for your talk like you were on v1agr4!!!1!" you didn't get that one?
<asac> bryce: oh ... i have more than 100 matches;)
<bryce> asac: bingo
<rickspencer3> hehe
<pitti> I just have two, but they are both quite big, so I don't think I'd like to pile up more for karmic
<pitti> since I also want to work on the devkit migration
<bryce> rickspencer3: I've gone mine in, but there's too many; probably should trim them down a bit
<rickspencer3> Riddell: I didn't see Kubuntu blueprints in pitti's link
<asac> rickspencer3: blueprints without sessions dont need to be in yet?
<rickspencer3> asac: I suppose so
<miha> hello guys, 1. ubuntu with desktop effects likes to hang when you press notebook keys such as volume up when playing movies/down, 2. network manager fails to reconnect (you must enter password again and press connect)
<pitti> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/sprints/uds-karmic?searchtext=kubuntu
<asac> rickspencer3: ok. thanks.
<pitti> rickspencer3: they are prefixed kubuntu-
<rickspencer3> miha: hi, we're in a meeting right now
<miha> ok
<miha> sorry
<rickspencer3> you might want to ask in #ubuntu
<rickspencer3> no problems, you're welcome to hang out
<pitti> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/sprints/uds-karmic?searchtext=kubuntu-karmic- is better
<rickspencer3> pitti: thanks!
<rickspencer3> Riddell rocks, as usual
<rickspencer3> so essentially, pitti and rickspencer3 will sort, prioritize and such by eod Thursday
<asac> rickspencer3: i will setup a blueprint about NM UI topics (first start, wizard, etc.) in karmic ... thats the only one left i want broader discussion on.
<asac> doing that right after meeting
<rickspencer3> asac: thanks
<rickspencer3> anyone else have blueprints that need to be submitted?
<rickspencer3> note that we have two rooms, but are covering Dx, Design, and Ubuntu1 in our track
<asac> the prefix is ubuntu-desktop-... ?
<asac> ah ubuntu-karmic
<rickspencer3> none the less, I'd like to keep a lot of time unscheduled for impromptu sessions
<rickspencer3> asac: right, the naming convention is ubuntu-karmic-*
<pitti> asac: desktop-karmic-*
<rickspencer3> heh
 * asac confused ;)
<rickspencer3> right desktop-karmic-*
<rickspencer3> (my bad)
<rickspencer3> Riddell confused me :)
<rickspencer3> so is everyone good to go with blueprints?
<rickspencer3> moving on: Desktop Summit
<rickspencer3> if you are going, please add yourself to the meeting page
<rickspencer3> I created a little table there
<Riddell> which meeting page?
<rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2009-05-05
<rickspencer3> Riddell: ^^^
<rickspencer3> next topic: Triaging versus Bug Fixing/Closing in Karmic
<rickspencer3> I just wanted to briefly bring this up as pitti and I have both been talking to desktop engineers, and it seems pretty universal that the current mix is not right
<rickspencer3> I don't want to brainstorm about it here, but ...
<pitti> it's not so much of a mix, as of a "when to stop?" and "what to look at" questions
<rickspencer3> I think we should have a UDS talk about how to handle bug inflow
<rickspencer3> pitti: sure
<rickspencer3> that's a good way to put it
<rickspencer3> I wanted to make two points now:
<pedro_> count me in for that session, I'd love to help with that
<rickspencer3> 1. We should tackle this problem as a team, but the implementation of any solutions may look different for each product area, as the problems manifest differently
<rickspencer3> 2. We should consider *bold* action in Karmic
<rickspencer3> pedro_: absolutely!
<bryce> bold action?
<rickspencer3> bryce: yes
<miha> Comrades, we stand at edge of cliff. We must make a bold step forwards. (old Yugoslavian joke) :)
<rickspencer3> like don't think in terms of a 10% increase in throughput
<rickspencer3> think about a 10 fold increase
<rickspencer3> stretch your comfort zone
<pitti> before we can determine/measure this, we first need to define "throughput"
<pitti> in terms of "what do we want to achieve"
<rickspencer3> pitti: hehe
<asac> i think the ideal goal would be that developers can filter everything not triaged or so to /dev/null and spend all their time on real bug-fix work
<asac> isntead of bugmail work
<rickspencer3> asac: that's a great example
<pitti> I liked the bug gravity idea
<asac> bug-fix work == fix on own AND work with upstream
<asac> pitti: what definition of gravity do you like?
<pitti> to make us focus on what's most important, to maximize the usefulness
<rickspencer3> bryce: make sense? It would be ideal if you felt that you could suggest radical approaches
<calc> disable all desktop bug reporting without using apport would help get to the 10x throughput
<rickspencer3> calc: yes!
<asac> pitti: for the triaging or the bug-fixing?
<pitti> asac: number of affected people, type of attached debugging information, number of dups, reported by core-dev member, etc.
<asac> yeah
<pitti> asac: triaging
<pitti> I think once we got a bug to triaged/assigned, we are doing pretty good
<rickspencer3> I think asac is suggesting "no triaging" for engineers!
<pitti> the challenge is to pick the "right" ones
<asac> pitti: i agree, but still developers would get rid of the triaging stage at all if possible
<bryce> rickspencer3: it's still seeming rather ambiguous how to apply to X, but I'm listening
<pitti> asac: unfortuantely their special knowledge is required very often
<asac> pitti: thats true, but also depends on the area you look at
<pitti> bryce: I think the point is that everyone shouldl think about the problem from his perspective
<rickspencer3> bryce: here's a thought exercise, if you only had 1 hour a week to triage bugs, what would yo do with that time?
<asac> pitti: for mozilla its 99.0% of bugmail that i doesnt require special skills
<calc> for eg OOo there is very little if any triaging being done besides me currently, so i think getting the community to do more towards triaging would be needed before having engineers no longer do it
<asac> just a guidance and man power
<pitti> and thus at UDS we can share our thoughts
<rickspencer3> anywho ... let's bring these ideas to UDS
<calc> ok
<asac> pitti: well it definitly requires special skills, but not at the early stages
<pitti> asac: for triaging as in the medical sense ("set priority and look how many are affected"), that's probably very true
<rickspencer3> I just wanted to plant the seed of thinking bold and trying something new and perhaps even agressive
<rickspencer3> as pitti put it early "turn the problem upside down"
<asac> pitti: yeah. for me it would be a huge improvement if my incoming queue would be just bugs that are properly prepared (thats what i refer to for triaging)
<pitti> "Enter an 11-digit prime number to file this bug"
<pitti> *cough*
<rickspencer3> !
<asac> the evaluation part of triaging needs to be done by developer. if we are also overloaded on that side we need gravity
<asac> for that or more engineers ;)
<pitti> so, some questions to think about:
<pitti>  - Which kind of your typical bugs would you classify as "something I want to work on", and "something I want to look at", and "something I shouldn't look at"
<bryce> rickspencer3: I guess if I had only an hour to triage, I'd use 45 min to write a launchpadlib script to automate the triaging, and then run that for the last 15 min ;-)
<pitti>  - "how can I organize my bug queues in a way that I can process something to zero without getting overloaded"
<kenvandine_wk> bryce: good answer :)
<pitti> bryce++
<rickspencer3> kewl
<pitti>  - "which of my current work can be documented and automated"
<rickspencer3> any other business?
<pitti> o/
<pitti> I had a topic for -intel
<pitti> so, we have our first alpha-1 next Thursday
<pitti> I think it would be nice if we could upload -intel 2.7.0 and turn on UXA by default
<pitti> so that we can run our karmic "target" architecture for as long as possible, and collect feedback early
<pitti> given how long it takes to fix some of those bugs, we can't start early enough I think
<pitti> bryce: do you think that's reasonable?
<pitti> or is there something blocking that?
<bryce> well
<bryce> right now we have a lot of UXA bugs, and in talking with Intel I see we have some leverage to get attention on these
<bryce> if we move ahead and enable UXA I sort of worry Intel may conclude that we no longer consider them blocking issues, and give them less priority
<pitti> bryce: so you want them to fix the first wave of then first?
<pitti> s/then/them/
<bryce> ideally, yes, if it doesn't impact our schedule for KMS enablement
<pitti> (btw, I enabled that here, but no noticeable difference, even with usplash disabled)
<bryce> what I am doing these days is basically 75% triaging/upstreaming UXA bugs and 25% KMS preparations
<bryce> I've written a script to generate reports on current state of UXA bugs, that I send to Intel
<pitti> okay, I see
<bryce> I'll send a copy of the next one to ubuntu-devel@ for transparency
<pitti> bryce: so perhaps 2.7.0 with exa, as in the xorg-edgers PPA?
<bryce> for KMS, I'm working on putting together a wiki page to howto and capture testing results... link in a sec
<bryce> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/KernelModeSetting <-- still a WIP
<bryce> pitti: yes 2.7.0/exa is available now from https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat/+archive/x-updates/
<bryce> I can also upload that for karmic... I started doing that but got distracted for some reason.  Should be up this week at the latest.
<pitti> I just wondered whether there are specific reasons to hold it back
<bryce> oh yeah I remember - the package in x-updates doesn't have the patches included in our 2.6.3 version, so I need to take time to do the merging
<pitti> bryce: if you say that not enabling it by default yet will increase pressure to fix uxa bugs, so much the better :)
<bryce> that's the plan :-)
<pitti> ok, thanks for the heads-up
<bryce> so far there are >20 bugs which will be regressions once we enable UXA
<bryce> those are freshly tested; and that seems like a lot to me given that people are having to manually enable it at this point, I'd like to cut that down a lot before switching over
<rickspencer3> bryce: Yingying_Zhao will be hosting weekly calls starting next week, so I'll be able to cover your bug list for you there
<bryce> great
<rickspencer3> any other business?
<kenvandine_wk> one thing
<bryce> calc, how's your son doing?
<kenvandine_wk> i will be emailing everyone soon to test an update to u1 :)
<rickspencer3> meeting adjourned?
<bryce> thanks!
<pitti> thanks everyone
<rickspencer3> kenvandine_wk: right. What was the uptake on U1?
<rickspencer3> did everyone on the desktop team install it?
<rickspencer3> (hint hint)
<awe> +1
<kenvandine_wk> rickspencer3: i don't have reports from everyone
<kenvandine_wk> you, pitti and Riddell for sure
<rickspencer3> okay, we'll look for your email, and set something up so we can get everyone on it
<awe> kenvandine_wk: what kind of report do you need?
<kenvandine_wk> well, bug reports
<calc> bryce: doing ok now
<kenvandine_wk> does it work for you
<kenvandine_wk> etc
<calc> bryce: he was sick about a week
<kenvandine_wk> awe:  basically we want as many people to really use it as possible
<kenvandine_wk> there are lots of bugs fixed since last week, so there should be a new package soon
<awe> kenvandine_wk: cool.  i had problems with it a few weeks back, but it's been solid ever since.  nice work
<kenvandine_wk> i will mail the group when it is ready
<bryce> calc: good to hear
<kenvandine_wk> it won't sync my data yet :/
<rickspencer3> thanks kenvandine_wk
<rickspencer3> calc: glad your son is on the mend!
 * rickspencer3 wishes he had a gavel
<rickspencer3> thanks all!
<asac> thanks
<rickspencer3> mdz: hi!
<mdz> howdy, desktop folk
<kenvandine_wk> hey mdz
<asac> welcome ;)
<bryce> hi mdz
<pitti> hey mdz
<calc> hi
<miha> i disabled all gnome effects..this ubuntu cute volume thing doesnt work with dekstop things
<miha> and especially not with any movie player
<miha> can i complain about that? :)
<hyperair> what if i said no?
<miha> i already said it :)
<hyperair> oh whoops
<miha> hehe
<miha> is it known bug? does it matter i use ATI and the just support this effects? :)
<hyperair> ?
<hyperair> i don't understand you
<chrisccoulson> hey pitti - i'm looking at getting tracker 0.7.0 ready for karmic. it has a new build-dependency on a package currently in universe though
<chrisccoulson> not sure what to do :/
<pitti> chrisccoulson: disable it, or file a MIR if it isn't crackful
<miha> hyperair if i have gnome effects enabled,play divx in full screen.. and i either swith program or press volume up, Xorg crashes and then everything hangs
<miha> switch
<chrisccoulson> i had a look at disabling it, and it doesn't look possible. the dependency is valac, which i think is only needed at build-time
<chrisccoulson> i can file a MIR for that
 * hyperair washes his hands off this issue and goes to sleep
<miha> hyperair sweet tight!:)
<miha> sleep
<hyperair> can't help you there. i'm using intel and got my own share of rubbish
<miha> hehe
 * hyperair glares in the general direction of the intel gpu driver devels
<miha> hyperair well i disabled effects, again those nvidia kids will brag :(
<miha> hyperair take care
<hyperair> thanks
<hyperair> you too
<pochu> miha: you could try nouveau, not sure it will help though :-)
<pochu> miha: #ubuntu-x sounds more appropriate though
<miha> pochu i think problem is that these effects dont work with xv on ati drivers
<miha> i might be wrong
<miha> i had problems only with moview
<miha> movies
<pochu> oh, you have ati not nvidia
<pochu> I misread then, sorry
<miha> yeah, only in newest drivers they even support composite + direct rendering :)
<miha> i guess it will get better?! :)
<pochu> anyway it sounds offtopic here, this is not a support channel :-)
<miha> okey sorry
<miha> just i think such questions are ignored on the help channel :)
<miha> take care
<rickspencer3> bryce: any chance you could weed your blueprints today?
<bryce> um, yeah...
<bryce> rickspencer3: can we merge desktop-karmic-intel-video-retrospective into one of the others?
<rickspencer3> bryce: sure, whatever you want
<rickspencer3> I have to take a call now, can you send mail or ping me this afternoon?
<rickspencer3> oh wait
<rickspencer3> actually, we should probably keep that one on it's own
<rickspencer3> (or cut it)
<james_w> bryce: there's a jaunty retrospective on the foundations track that it could perhaps be merged in to?
<bryce> james_w: mm possibly, esp. since we found that the core issues for the -intel driver issues was actually kernel changes needed, not localized to X/userspace
<james_w> you could chat to robbie, as it sounds like you would like a couple of kernel people there as well
<bryce> james_w: you mean pete?
<james_w> yeah, I guess him too
<james_w> I meant ask Robbie what he was planning to use the session for, and whether he could pull in a couple of people from each team for it
<bryce> oh gotcha
<bryce> well, rick had asked for this session specifically, so I'll leave it to his judgment
<bryce> I suppose people will appreciate having a dedicated session to complain about all the problems that resulted from updating -intel past 2.4
<james_w> heh :-)
 * awe goes offline for awhile...  back online @ 4 EDT
<artir> the meeting is over?
<crevette> hello
<calc> wow that was nice of xorg... it crashed in the middle of me using it
<calc> not even on a sleep/resume change or something more obvious like that
<chrisccoulson> You need to add `Option "NoCrashyForCalc" 1` or something to your xorg.conf ;)
<calc> hehe
<calc> it went to a bright green screen with bits of it blinking then back to gdm login
<calc> its the first time i've seen it crash in probably a month
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i haven't actually seen it crash for many months. although i have had a garbled screen occasionally
<chrisccoulson> does any compiler like gcc display visible strings with proper internationalization?
<pitti> good night everyone
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-05-06
<YokoZar> Hey can I get in on the Ubuntu One private beta that's rumored to exist (I read the desktop team minutes ;) )
<calc> YokoZar: you'll have to ask kenvandine_wk i think its going to be more widely beta at UDS or something like that, but i'm not certain
<YokoZar> I can wait till then I guess
<rickspencer3> YokoZar: Still there?
<YokoZar> rickspencer3: yeah
<rickspencer3> so, I think the Ubuntu 1 team is planning a limited beta around the time of UDS
<rickspencer3> but I *think* it starts out invite only
<rickspencer3> are you on loco team or Ubuntu?
<YokoZar> Then I'll give you a business card at UDS and you can invite me ;)
<rickspencer3> sweet
<YokoZar> We've met before actually
<rickspencer3> oh?
<YokoZar> https://launchpad.net/~scottritchie
<rickspencer3> Scott!
<rickspencer3> hi
<rickspencer3> okay, so you'll meet up with those guys at UDS
<YokoZar> Will do ;)
<rickspencer3> looking forward to seeing you in Barcelona!
<rickspencer3> Ole!
<YokoZar> I tend to avoid going by Scott in the Ubuntu circles because there's a much more well known Scott, heh
<rickspencer3> lol
<rickspencer3> well, sometimes it takes me a while to connect irc nicks and real names
<rickspencer3> notice my incredibly uncreative nick
<YokoZar> Yeah no kidding.  I've given half serious thought to changing my real name to Yoko ;)
<kenvandine_wk> hehe... i am kenvandine and i hide behind the kenvandine irc nick... super secret
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell: good morning
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3: hey rick
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell: I just sent the meetings from the team meeting
<rickspencer3> you may want to refer to the irc log related to our discussion yesterday about bug workflow
<robert_ancell> reading now
<robert_ancell> kenvandine_wk: my UI always fails to authenticate - is there anything I can do to debug it?
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3: looks like it will be quite a discussion at UDS regarding bugs!
<rickspencer3> heh
<rickspencer3> too bad seb128 wasn't there, it would have been an even more spirited discussion!
<robert_ancell> :)
<robert_ancell> kenvandine_wk: s/UI/U1/
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3: In Ekiga are you using the SIP proxy voip.canonical.com?
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell: nope
<rickspencer3> I use ekiga.net (like users would ;) )
<rickspencer3> also, I haven't gotten around to setting up the canonical sip :(
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3: you go through a router? do you have any port forwarding setup?
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell: I do go through a router, but ekiga works with most people
<rickspencer3> I mean, it works when I talk to most people
<rickspencer3> not sure if port forwarding is set up for it though
<rickspencer3> I set it up for some protocols, but don't think I did it for sip
 * calc needs a faster computer to build OOo, a 2-way 6-core xeon would be nice :)
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3: it will work as long as one has port forwarding or uses a proxy.  I think both of us have neither so it can't make a direct connection (which is why 500@ekiga.net works but dialing users doesn't)
<ajmitch> calc: does OOo build in parallel that well?
<rickspencer3> hmm
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3: this is a documented requirement for Ekiga and there is a bug requesting Ubuntu have a default SIP proxy
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell: I don't have time tonight, but perhaps tomorrow
<calc> ajmitch: i think up to 10 thread not sure about higher
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3: ok, will play around
<calc> ajmitch: of course some of the stuff isn't parallelizable like the dh_shlibdeps crud
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3: (either way Ekiga does not give enough feedback)
<rickspencer3> yeah
<ajmitch> calc: as long as you wouldn't have all but 1 core sitting idle :)
<rickspencer3> but when it works, it so cool and useful :)
 * calc is thinking about buying a core i5 at the end of the year
<ajmitch> I'm getting very tempted to replace my main computer, at about 3 years old
<calc> all i have currently is a c2d e6300 which is pretty slow for OOo, takes ~ 4hr initial build and 1.5hr for rebuilds
<ajmitch> I thought you were dropping OOo soon?
<calc> ajmitch: going to 20% time for maintaining it later this week, but still will be working on it
<ajmitch> then not wasting any of that 20% will be important
<calc> ajmitch: yea, with a single build taking 4hr doing triage while i wait on it is important and hoping it doesn't fail after a few hours also is good
<calc> rickspencer3: if we can come up with a good plan for bug handling, wrt UDS etc, once i am back fulltime i should have time for more than just OOo :)
<rickspencer3> calc: right
<rickspencer3> OR
<rickspencer3> have time to really do some cool stuff with OOo
<rickspencer3> or both
<calc> yea
<calc> well time for more than just triaging anyway :)
<calc> doing cool stuff with OOo is somewhat complicated by the fact it is a giant monolithic blob of code :-\
<calc> but it looks like there are real rumblings inside of Sun finally to do a real split similar to the Novell work instead of just the current branding stuff
<calc> the way OOo currently works is a pretty high barrier for developers
 * ajmitch has never been tempted to dive in & improve it
<calc> ajmitch: its pretty gross ;-\
<calc> ajmitch: i had thought about trying to fix up things like getting it FHS compliant but its such an apparent mess (at least that I saw) that I just gave up, it would haven't taken a long time to determine how to fix it and even longer to convince Sun to take the patches
<calc> s/haven't/have/
<calc> once they eventually get it split up it will probably be easier to fix things like that
<ajmitch> hopefully it'll end up with some more community input & development in the long term
<calc> ajmitch: yea that is the thinking of what will probably happen now that Sun has been bought by Oracle
<calc> would be nice to get it converted over to gettext, if that is actually doable for a cross platform project
<calc> but things like that and getting it converted to a real dialog layout format are huge projects
<ajmitch> I don't really use OOo much, but it would be nice to not see it die off & stagnate
<calc> yea
<calc> it seems that things that originally come from closed source have issues converting over to real open source projects
<ajmitch> because the development culture grows along with the project
<ajmitch> it's not something that is easily added in later
<rickspencer3> good night all
<calc> yea, and getting the company that released it openly to let go to a community organization is hard too
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell: need anything before I shut down?
<calc> rickspencer3: goodnight
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3: nope, have a good night
<rickspencer3> tanks
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> bryce: with that recipe, i915 gets probed (and the mode set) about 2/3 into the boot process
<pitti> bryce: which is a fairly nasty time, since it will interrupt usplash, etc, and also not look good with plymouth
<pitti> bryce: I guess it should be moved into the initramfs, as the first thing it does?
<robert_ancell> pitti: hello
<robert_ancell> pitti: I have a question about building new debs.  I've made the merge for glade but when I run dpkg-buildpackage it reverts my changes. How do I build it with the changes?
<pitti> robert_ancell: what did you change?
<robert_ancell> pitti: and the new avahi requires a new libcap-dev package - what is the process to update that?
<robert_ancell> pitti: debian/control - added a new conflicts
<pitti> aah
<pitti> robert_ancell: I bet it uses a debian/control.in
<robert_ancell> duh...
<pitti> I often stumble over this as well
<pitti> robert_ancell: if you need a newer libcap2 source, just update it; however, we have the latest one from Debian in Karmic (2.16-5), isn't that recent enough?
<pitti> robert_ancell: if you need a newer version, please package it and ask me to sponsor it
<robert_ancell> pitti: why does http://packages.ubuntu.com/karmic/libcap-dev show an older version?
<pitti> I guess it takes a while to catch up
<pitti> robert_ancell: use rmadison
<pitti> rmadison libcap-dev
<pitti> or, if you are on karmic, just apt-cache show libcap-dev, but I guess you are on jaunty?
<robert_ancell> yup in jaunty
<robert_ancell> so, should I try building on jaunty or just propose it for karmic and fix any problems later?
<pitti> robert_ancell: generally, all development happens for karmic now (and preferably _on_ karmic as well)
<pitti> robert_ancell: you can use a pbuilder or a chroot
<pitti> robert_ancell: but if it's just libcap-dev, just download the karmic source and build/install it on your jaunty system
<pitti> that's easier
<robert_ancell> ok.  Is it safe to upgrade to Karmic yet?
<robert_ancell> "safe"
<pitti> works for me :)
<pitti> I surprisingly little damage
<robert_ancell> alright, I think I'll do that then..
<pitti> if you dist-upgrade, you should have a look at which packages it wants to remove
<pitti> with the current buildd activity, we often have some version skew which sometimes causes packages to be removed
<crevette> hello
<pitti> robert_ancell: I replied to your compiz bug management mail; please feel free to kick the discussion to u-devel@
<pitti> I need to leave for about 2 hours, doctor appointment
<robert_ancell> pitti: thanks.  One last question - if there is a control.in should the diff.gz contain the control file?
<robert_ancell> seb128: morning
<seb128> robert_ancell: hello from london
<seb128> how was your day?
<robert_ancell> seb128: a steep learning curve... I have the glade package ready. I think I've got the avahi package produced but I'm currently upgrading to Karmic so I can build it easily
<seb128> ok, so none of those are syncs now?
<seb128> I will try to review those today if they are ready for review
<robert_ancell> seb128: no
<robert_ancell> I'll do gdm tomorrow
<seb128> maybe do the totem* srus if you didn't start on those yet?
<robert_ancell> sure, I'll do those now
<seb128> don't forget to do some bug triage too, we are lagging behind after jaunty again
<seb128> triaging new bugs for a package a day could be a good goal
<seb128> for reasonable packages
<seb128> ie gnome-games
<mvo> seb128: hey seb! had a good flight?
<seb128> hello mvo, yes very good
<seb128> one hour flight, london public transportation running fine during the week
<robert_ancell> seb128: when using quilt and autoreconf is there an easy way to quilt add all the files?
<seb128> robert_ancell: find . | xargs quilt add
<robert_ancell> :) that's what I did.  Feels a bit hacky though...
<mpontillo> morning all; I have a noob question... I'm trying to fix that epiphany user-agent bug, and I've been reading the packaging guides and trying to figure out how to do a substitution string for the target platform version at build time... is that a pointless search? i.e. is the package *always* going to be built on a system with the same /etc/lsb-release info as the target platform?
<mpontillo> robert_ancell: careful of .swp files your text editor creates, ctags files, or anything else you might have accidentally put in the directory ;)
<chrisccoulson> robert_ancell - you also have to be careful of files that get automatically created by running autoreconf whilst you edit the patch
<chrisccoulson> i've fallen in to that trap before and you end up with a diff outside of the /debian directory
 * chrisccoulson loves quilt
<robert_ancell> yuck.  Easiest solution is to manually edit the patch afterwards?
<seb128> I tend to change the rules to comment quilt-patchsys and use cdbs-edit-patch
<seb128> one good move would be to make cdbs-edit-patch work on quilt packages
<seb128> not using quilt, just the same way it's working for simple patchsys
<chrisccoulson> sometimes when i run something that i know might create new files, i just create a copy of the source directory i'm working in, run the command in one (ie, autoreconf), then take a diff of the two folders and use that as the patch
<robert_ancell> that would be nice.  Is upstream likely to support changing from quilt if we send them a cdbs patch?
<chrisccoulson> seb128's method makes sense though
<pitti> re
<pitti> hey seb128
<pitti> so, that was pleasingly quick
<seb128> robert_ancell: "upstream" being debian? no, they switched to quilt
<seb128> hello pitti, what was quick?
<pitti> robert_ancell: yes, debian/rules will create debian/control from control.in on clean
<pitti> seb128: doctor appointment
<robert_ancell> seb128: oh
<seb128> pitti: everything is ok?
<pitti> . o O { oh, wow, KMS, UXA, and compiz running flawlessly }
<pitti> seb128: just my weeks-old small hand injury from board breaking, nothing serious
<robert_ancell> pitti: I tried deleting control and dpkg-buildpackage failed. So I've left it in
<seb128> pitti: ok good
<pitti> robert_ancell: just change control.in and run debclean
<pitti> that should do
<robert_ancell> thx
<crevette> hey
<crevette> good morning
<seb128> lut crevette
<pitti> seb128: how's the sprint?
<seb128> pitti: just starting for me, they are going through the first 2 days discussions and doing a summary now
<didrocks> salut *
<pitti> hey didrocks
<didrocks> Hi pitti! Are you also at the sprint?
<seb128> lut didrocks
<didrocks> plop seb128 ;)
<robert_ancell> I seem to have $GTKDOC_REBASE missing from a build, anyone know what it is?
<seb128> robert_ancell: run the gnome autogen.sh, there is not gtk-doc autocommand
<seb128> or copy the change from the previous version
<seb128> only configure doesn't apply usually you can force the patch run autoconf and refresh
<chrisccoulson> hey seb128 - i saw your comments on the gnome-sesion update. i'll work on those later - sorry i've not done it yet, i've not had a chance yet.
<robert_ancell> so  I should ammend the autoreconf patch by running autoconf?
<seb128> chrisccoulson: no hurry, I'm at a dxteam sprint for 2 days anyway so I will not have lot of review time
<seb128> robert_ancell: if only configure conflicts yes
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - that's ok then. it should be done by the time you get back:)
<seb128> good ;-)
<crevette> hello, for those interested I did a upload request for gnome-bluetooth 2.27.x which it aims to replace bluez-gnome (https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bugs/372395)
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 372395 in gnome-bluetooth "[karmic] Please sponsor gnome-bluetooth 2.27.4" [Undecided,New]
<crevette> if the people who will upload can do some more testing, I'm a little afraid that break something
<crevette> hey rodrigo_
<rodrigo_> hi
<mpontillo> how do I know what's ok vs. not-ok to put in the postinst script? is there a guideline somewhere?
<seb128> hello rodrigo_
<seb128> mpontillo: the less you put there the better for system upgrade stability
<pitti> does "time-admin" work for you guys? when I start it, I get a dialog "your system is unknown, please select your distro"
<chrisccoulson> pitti - there's already a related bug report for services-admin i think
<chrisccoulson> doesn't this break at the start of every cycle?
<pitti> ah, that might be, I'll look into it
<chrisccoulson> i'm not sure whether thats a g-s-t, liboobs or s-t-b issue though
<chrisccoulson> pitti - bug 371234
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 371234 in gnome-system-tools "system::admin::services is broken in karmic (says platform is unsupported)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/371234
<pitti> chrisccoulson: thanks
<maxb> The selection box lists nothing newer than hardy.... does that mean it's broken in intrepid and jaunty too?
<pitti> I don't think so, worked fine there
<chrisccoulson> pitti - i started working on a MIR for vala last night. is it a show-stopper that it has no gettext support (bearing in mind that it's primary purpose is converting vala source in to C source+headers, so it's a tool that only developers will use)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I don't think so
<pitti> this is a build chain tool
<chrisccoulson> pitti - thanks. i'll carry on working on that later then
<seb128> pitti: bonus if you do the debian merge, they have a patch to drop the list of known distro thing
<pitti> yay, will do that
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> I'm amazed that so many people are running karmic yet
<seb128> several users confirmed this bug
<pitti> why?
<seb128> because it just opened and still around breakage time
<crevette> we want to support ubuntu
<seb128> we usually don't get bugs such details so early
<pitti> dogfooding FTW :)
<mdz> tkamppeter: have you seen bug 39078?  are you aware of any time when there may have been recursive symlinks in /usr/share/ppd?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 39078 in cups "cups-driverd endless loop on recursive symlinks" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/39078
<seb128> usually first month is focussed on making things build and install
<crevette> usually is there more breakage in the beginning of the cycle
<crevette> from what I recall
<seb128> right which is why you don't upgrade so early
<seb128> especially that so early bugs on user applications are not really useful
<seb128> because that adds paper work for things which will autosettle with merges, etc
<robert_ancell> see you guys tomorrow
<chrisccoulson> yeah - the other thing that always breaks at the start of every cycke is software-sources, and that was reported straight away and confirmed by lots of people too
<seb128> robert_ancell: see you
<pitti> seb128: ah, good merge; our remaining changes are patches which are sent upstream, no packaging changes any more
<pitti> nice to see Debian pick up PolicyKit
<seb128> pitti: good
<pitti> seb128: it also finally removes the init script
<james_w> pitti: you are reviewing iulian's merge?
<pitti> james_w: erm, no? I just did it myself
<james_w> oh
<james_w> bug 372599 from around an hour ago :-)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 372599 in policykit "Merge policykit 0.9-3" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/372599
<pitti> I see no bug on https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/system-tools-backends/+bugs
<pitti> james_w: oh, polkit, *phew*
<james_w> ah, sorry
<james_w> you meant they've enabled policykit in s-t-b?
<pitti> yes, in Debian
<james_w> cool
<pitti> so we could drop our delta for that
<james_w> sorry for the noise
<pitti> james_w: no worries, thanks for bringing it up
<tkamppeter> mdz, bug 39078 is a severe upstream bug in CUPS. A tool which searches a directory structure recursively should be aware of link loops.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 39078 in cups "cups-driverd endless loop on recursive symlinks" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/39078
<tkamppeter> mdz, I am currently seartching whether it already got reported to CUPS.
<mdz> tkamppeter: I agree, though multiple people have experienced this issue without knowingly creating recursive symlinks, so there's likely a bug somewhere which creates them
<tkamppeter> mdz, as there are many sources for PPD files, especially also driver packages from printer manufacturers, CUPS should handle these link loops gracefully. I will report a bug to CUPS.
<mdz> tkamppeter: I agree with you, CUPS should handle the loop more gracefully, and reporting the bug to CUPS is a good idea.  However, I also feel that a symlink loop created by an Ubuntu package is a bug in itself.
<mnemo> pitti: i would like apport's xorg hook to collect xorg.log, xorg.log.old, lspci -vvnn and dmesg for packages rss-glx and gdm... should I open a wishlist bug against apport for that?
<pitti> mnemo: rather against rss-glx and gdm
<pitti> package hooks should be shipped in the packages themselves
<mnemo> ok
<pitti> mnemo: are many gdm bugs really so x.org related?
<mnemo> not that many, but it happens
<mnemo> should we more conservative with collecting files you think?
<mnemo> pitti: is there a good "sample hook" that ships in an app package (in case I want to try adding it myself)?
<bryce> I filed a bug against gdm to add an xorg-like apport hook last week
<mnemo> ah ok great
<pitti> mnemo: just look at the existing ones in /usr/share/apport/package-hooks/
<crevette> asac, around?
<mnemo> thanks
<asac> crevette: yeah. what can i do for/to you ;)?
<seb128> crevette: better to just ask your question so he can reply
<crevette> asac, hey
<crevette> asac, just a question, not sure this is the NM fault, but I shoot, do you know if there is a change in linux kernel 2.6.30 that make me impossible to connecto to my WPA connection with NM ?
<crevette> if I switch back the 2.26.28 kernel shipped with jaunty no problem, as expected
<asac> crevette: which driver/chipset?
<crevette> I have a lenovo laptop with intel chip if it matters
<pitti> for the record, WPA/2.6.30rc3 (karmic) works just fine on my 3945
 * crevette whould have write its laptop properties somewhere
<hyperair> you refer to yourself as it?
<asac> crevette: sounds a bit oddd, but i dont want to rule that out
<asac> crevette: can you check if you can narrow down when this happened by going through the milestones from here: http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/
<crevette> asac, I didn't tested / troubleshoot intensively, I just test 2.6.30 this morning just before leaving to go to the job
<asac> ok. if it persists, check out the mainline vanilla packages
<asac> having regression window there would be good i guess
<asac> there is rc4 already ffiw
<mpt> mvo, hi, njpatel showed me yesterday the bug with update-manager popping up whenever you use apt-get
<pitti> seb128: does the new libsoup in karmic fix bug 340785 and bug 313686?
<ubottu> Bug 340785 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/340785 is private
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 313686 in libsoup2.4 "totem-mozilla doesn't work when the URL has whitespace chars" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/313686
<seb128> pitti: yes
<pitti> seb128: likewise, bug 362307 and bug 326771?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 362307 in nautilus "does not support g-a-i mime search anymore" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/362307
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 326771 in scim-bridge "scim-bridge crashed with SIGSEGV in scim::IMEngineInstanceBase::get_frontend_data() (dup-of: 243344)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/326771
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 243344 in scim-bridge "scim-bridge crashed with SIGSEGV in scim::IMEngineInstanceBase::get_frontend_data()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/243344
<seb128> pitti: yes
<seb128> pitti: dunno about scim but nautilus bugs yes
<pitti> seb128: thanks, closed those four
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> pitti: I don't know about the scim one as said though
<seb128> I assume you used the wrong number but meant the other nautilus bug fixed in sru
<pitti> seb128: naturally, I meant but 362771, sorry
<pitti> tpying is hrad
<seb128> don't tell me ;-)
<seb128> hum, how do I tell dd to write 6Gb of datas?
<crevette> seb128, for kvm ?
<crevette> if yes, you can use qemu-disk utilities IIRC
<crevette> else you can do a dd if=/dev/zero of=/virtualfs bs=1024 count=<nb in KB>
<seb128> crevette: ok thanks, I tried that without the bs option
<crevette> seb128, else qemu-img is your friend :)
<asac> hmm irc.gnome.org seems busted for me ... i cannot connect anymore ;)
<chrisccoulson> asac - i' m connected
<asac> yeah. better dont disconnect ;)
<mvo> mpt: right, I have a fix in karmic, we can SRU it for jaunty too
<mpt> mvo, I think it would be a good idea :-)
<mpt> mvo, 1 day for security updates, and the usual delay (e.g. 7 days by default) for non-security, I think
<mvo> mpt: ok
<mpt> mvo, btw, sorry, I wasn't here on Monday, I forgot it was a public holiday here
<mvo> mpt: no problem, its pretty busy here too, I'm doing a one-to-one sprint currently, but we can have the phone call anytime this week you have time
<mpt> mvo, I'm in user testing all today, but I can call you tomorrow if that's ok
<mvo> sure
<asac> i remember that there was a pidgin upstream at last UDS ... he had some experience on online/offline status things; anyone remembers who that was?
<Ampelbein> seb128: hi. bug 372168 is ready for review, I think.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 372168 in gnome-utils "Please sponsor version 2.27.1 in karmic" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/372168
<seb128> Ampelbein: ok thanks, I'm at a sprint for 2 days so I will probably not review those today or tomorrow
<mvo> seb128: hey - do you have some (gnome) packages that I can update with muharem (that are no merges) ?
<seb128> mvo: yes
<seb128> mvo: easy one?
<seb128> mvo: http://download.gnome.org/sources/gnome-themes/2.27/gnome-themes-2.27.1.tar.gz
<pitti> mvo, seb128: ^ please noe that this is in bzr
<pitti> with bzr-buildpackage
<mvo> seb128: excellent, thanks
<seb128> mvo: thank to you ;-)
<rickspencer3> hi seb128, how is the sprint?
<pitti> rickspencer3: good morning
<seb128> hey rickspencer3, pretty interesting so far
<seb128> some crack ideas though ;-)
<rickspencer3> hi pitti
<rickspencer3> seb128: :)
<seb128> ie people have been suggesting to replace gnome-panel by xfce-panel to win some login seconds
<rickspencer3> of course, why not
<rickspencer3> ?
<pitti> the time to sort out the configuration migration will be better spent fixing gnome-panel
<rickspencer3> spend hundreds of development hours replacing something that's going to be replaced by GNOE 3.0 anyway
<rickspencer3> </sarcasm>
<seb128> hehe
<rickspencer3> I suppose the message for us is that log in time is important to them, and we should help with that goal
<seb128> right
<pitti> rickspencer3: gnome-panel won't go away anytime soon
<pitti> we still need it for the cases where we don't have composite
<rickspencer3> pitti: well ... the things that make it slow will, right?
<pitti> rickspencer3: right, gconf and bonobo
<rickspencer3> I thought in GNOME 3.0 they were removing some of the libraries and such that made it start up slow
<seb128> the recommendation is to spend some time to investigate what work would be required to improve that
<seb128> according to Scott the issue is mainly that gnome-panel is doing a lot of synchronous loading
<seb128> ie blocking waiting for applets to load and register
<vuntz> this is 100% fixable
<rickspencer3> hi vuntz!
<seb128> yes, we just need to "budget" ressources for that
<vuntz> ah, the whole "waiting for applets before showing" issue
<vuntz> a fun one
<vuntz> some people would like the panel to show asap and then have some uglyness with applets appearing
<pitti> vuntz: that's the case already
<vuntz> some other people prefer the panel to show when it's really ready
<pitti> right now it seems to be a wild mix in the middle
<seb128> vuntz: what would be your recommendation to improve start time in gnome-panel
<vuntz> pitti: nope, in 2.26, you should have the second case
 * rickspencer3 gets ready to create another blueprint
<pitti> vuntz: gpm and n-m appear after the panel appears, for me
<vuntz> pitti: they are not applets :-)
<pitti> vuntz: <user hat>what's the difference?</user hat>
<pitti> it's a little thingy in my panel
<vuntz> pitti: well, they are localized in one small place
<Keybuk> I stress that I've only done cursory examination of the panel
<mnemo> the biggest problem with gnome-panel is that is re-arranges all my launchers in random order every few months... sometimes when I use another resolution and sometimes on package upgrades..
<vuntz> pitti: it's not like your whole panel is flashing multiple times during login
<Keybuk> other than identifying it as a culprit of slow login time
<pitti> vuntz: right; I wasn't complaining, just stating how it looks
<vuntz> pitti: oh, sure, and that's a fair point. But I still think it's better now
<vuntz> (also, the slide-in animation is now smooth instead of being completely broken)
<pitti> (or entirely gone :) )
<rickspencer3> hi Keybuk
<seb128> vuntz: what would be your recommendation to improve start time in gnome-panel?
<vuntz> seb128: recommendation would be to see what's slow, of course ;-)
<seb128> right, I'm just asking if you know what is slow
<seb128> since you probably know the code better than any of us there
<seb128> ie where we should start looking
<seb128> if you don't that's fine
<seb128> still worth asking ;-)
<vuntz> well, it'd be interesting to see if a panel with absolutely no applet is still slow, I guess
<vuntz> that would be a first interesting data point
<seb128> good point
<vuntz> then panel with only in-process applets
<vuntz> also impact of the applications menu
<vuntz> etc.
<seb128> I'll try to do some playing with that
<kenvandine_wk> seb128: talk to behdad too
<kenvandine_wk> he has spent lots of time profiling the panel
<seb128> kenvandine_wk: I don't think he looked at gnome-panel yet, he's looking a gconf apparently
<seb128> oh, is that new?
<seb128> federico did that some years ago
<vuntz> fwiw, I have some small gconf-related panel patches around. And also a gnome-menus performance patch that I need to look at
<vuntz> but I doubt they make a real difference
<kenvandine_wk> seb128: he did look at the panel
<seb128> kenvandine_wk: where did you read about that?
<kenvandine_wk> he had some patches that improved panel load time
<seb128> when?
<kenvandine_wk> i tested the patches for him
<vuntz> kenvandine_wk: that was committed quite some time ago
<kenvandine_wk> 6 months ago?
<kenvandine_wk> yeah
<kenvandine_wk> i know
<kenvandine_wk> but he looked at it allot
<seb128> ok, nothing new, I was just checking
<kenvandine_wk> might have ideas where else to look at
<seb128> ok
<pitti> it's also worth trying in C locale, so that it doesn't read any mo files for translating the menu entries
<kenvandine_wk> that would be an interesting comparison
<seb128> Keybuk: how do I turn off disk cache?
<Keybuk> seb128: flush it?
<Keybuk> or turn it off entirely?
<seb128> do whatever will give timing similar to cold cache start, ie first run
<Keybuk> echo 1 > /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches
<seb128> thanks
<soren> Keybuk: Not 3?
<Keybuk> soren: why 3?
<soren> To free pagecache: echo 1 > /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches
<soren> To free dentries and inodes: echo 2 > /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches
<soren> To free pagecache, dentries and inodes: echo 3 > /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches
<Keybuk> ah, yes, 3
<seb128> hum, upgrade to karmic is breaking
<seb128> working after a retry though
<seb128> the libc6 preinst returned an error 1
<kenvandine_wk> seb128: humm... i had no errors... but it erased f-spot :)
 * kenvandine_wk added it back of course :)
<seb128> I'm upgrading a kvm image so I don't really care a lot about it breaking
<seb128> I'm not crazy enough to run karmic on my laptop yet :-)
<Laney> are there any pending f-spot patches on bugs?
<Laney> I'm going to re-sync it to debian
<kenvandine_wk> i updated my desktop, laptop is jaunty
<seb128> Laney: not that I know about
<Laney> ok
<seb128> maybe one day it will be in sync
<Laney> it's not that far away
<seb128> would be nice if upstream was responsive though
<Laney> seems like it could do with a new release
<seb128> indeed
<kenvandine_wk> i don't know how active upstream is right now :/
<seb128> they are not responsive to bugs reports for sure
<seb128> and don't roll new tarballs
<Laney> it still gets commits
<seb128> but they seem to do changes, add feature and have a soc project running
<mvo> seb128: u-m upgrade is breaking? on what?
<seb128> mvo: no, jaunty to karmic upgrade breaking
<seb128> mvo:  the libc6 preinst returned an error 1
<mvo> seb128: heh :)
<seb128> but it worked after a retry
<mvo> seb128: ok - did you use u-m to upgrade (just out of curiosity)?
<seb128> I first used the dist-upgrader
<seb128> but it just closed itself, I though that was because it was done
<seb128> then I tried update-manager and got this error
<seb128> mvo: davidbarth is wondering if you could do a conf call now
<seb128> ie joining the discussion about boot experiment, plymonth etc
<davidbarth> mvo: hi, we're sprinting currently in London
<davidbarth> mvo: we're going to talk about the boot/login transition with plymouth
<mvo> davidbarth: sure, when does the conf call start?
<davidbarth> mvo: what we can do is call you; or start the discussion and get in touch with you if we have questions
<davidbarth> mvo: i know that it's not always obvious to mix calls and meetings
<mvo> davidbarth: calling me sounds good, give me one minute
<davidbarth> mvo: but don't want to put you out of the loop
<davidbarth> mvo: great, let me know
<mvo> davidbarth: ready
<asac> mvo: how does dpkg unpack files
<asac> does it create .new files and then rename?
<mvo> asac: yeah, I need to look into the exact names, but basicly thats it
<asac> pitti: can you give back xulrunner-1.9.1 and firefox-3.5 builds? (most failed a few days ago because of libcairo-dev depend not being in main)
<pitti> rickspencer3: blueprint priorities updated
<asac> mvo: so all files get unpacked with .new first?
<asac> are config files special?
<pitti> asac: you can do that yourself, but I'll do the favour :)
<asac> pitti: well. it will get build score 0
<asac> ;)
<asac> if i do it
<mvo> asac: yes, but I can look up the details after the call I'm in
<asac> mvo: ok thanks
<pitti> asac: nothing to do for firefox-3.5, it's depwait on sparc and built everywhere else
<pitti> asac: oops, sorry, that was jaunty
<asac> err
 * pitti updates buildd script
<asac> yeah
<asac> ;)
<rickspencer3> pitti: thanks
<asac> pitti: i retried manually ffox-3.5 some gave me "cannot be retried"
<pitti> asac: right, it's needsbuild
<pitti> it didn't fail anywhere
<asac> pitti: can you adjust buildscore then
<asac> (its a retry)
<pitti> asac: done
<asac> xulrunner-1.9.1 is more important actually
<asac> thx
<mvo> asac: why do you need this?
<calc> pitti: to get libboost1.37-dev into main do i need to write a MIR or just file a bug?
<calc> libboost1.35-dev seems to have issue with gcc 4.4
<pitti> calc: just a bug
<asac> mvo: dbus issues
<calc> ok
<pitti> calc: the main issue is to do the transition for all rdepends, since we want to use 1.37 across the board then
<asac> mvo: nevermind i ran a strace and i think i saw
<asac> .dpkg-new ... ->
<asac> rename
<rickspencer3> asac: seb128: calc: bryce: ArneGoetje, Riddell, kenvandine_wk if you haven't registered UDS attendance could you do so please?
<calc> pitti: well 1.38 is out as well but its not built yet from what i recall
<asac> already done
<seb128> rickspencer3: I didn't?
<seb128> oh "if"
<seb128> ok ;-)
<rickspencer3> seb128:  asac, sorry, I meant *if* :)
<calc> hmm and 1.38 FTBFS it seems atm
<seb128> I did this after receiving pitti's email
<asac> AOL
<calc> pitti: bug 372756
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/372756/+text)
<asac> mvo: when you have finished your call, please look at http://paste.ubuntu.com/165526/
<asac> what are those .dpkg-new things for the directories for?
<mpontillo> asac: regarding bug 332253, I took a stab at it and basically did what you said in the bug comments using a postinst script... but I had lingering doubts about using postinst, and seb128 seconded my unspoken paranoia. ;) is /etc/lsb-release always going to be accurate at build time? if not, what should be the strategy? for maintainability, I don't want to hard code it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 332253 in epiphany-browser "Epiphany doesn't mention Ubuntu in user agent string" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/332253
<asac> mpontillo: lsb-release should be accurate
<asac> mpontillo: you need to build depend on lsb-base or something though
<asac> let me look at bug ;)
<asac> mpontillo: did i suggest to use postinst?
<asac> i always ment to use lsb_release during build time ;)
<asac> mpontillo: why do you sed the default-prefs.js?
<asac> you should just cat the stuff together during build imo
<mpontillo> asac: ok. great. then I can basically take that postinst script and put it right into the build process, and make lsb-release (the package that provdes /usr/bin/lsb_release) a build dep. no, you didn't mention when to do the substitution. I only thought postinst might be the way to do it because I wasn't sure there was ever the ability to build a package from the non-target architecture
<asac> (unless upstream ships its own stuff in that file)
<asac> mpontillo: yeah. maybe i omitted that i ment during build
<asac> guess thought it was clear
<asac> pitti: is our CK behaviour of making root @console something done by CK upstream? or is that something we did?
<mpontillo> asac: it would have been clear if I knew the .deb build process better. I have been trying to come up to speed, but there is a lot of information to absorb
<pitti> asac: it started as a d-bus patch of our's, I'm not sure whether they applied it; let me check
<asac> pitti: walters asks if we would agree on only making root  @console for gdm sessions and ssh
<seb128> mpontillo: if you have questions feel free to ask on the channel
<kenvandine_wk> seb128: i did
<pitti> asac: seems to be upstream
<kenvandine_wk> whoops
<kenvandine_wk> rickspencer3: i did :)
<asac> pitti: ok. so can i tell walters that we follow upstream decision on whether we make root @console for sudo su?
<pitti> asac: if d-bus upstream want to change this, sure
<pitti> few programs use at_console testing in their d-bus policy files in the first place
<asac> pitti: isnt that a consolekit thing?
<pitti> and frankly, I think the work would be better spent on dropping it at all
<asac> e.g. creating the /var/run/console/root file if you do sudo su?
<pitti> asac: ah, right
<asac> pitti: yeah. i am working on convincing NM to use polkit everywhere
<mpontillo> asac: the reason I used sed is because that I didn't want to have to modify the upstream default config file. is there a technical reason to use cat instead? seemed a bit more complex to be piecing apart upsteam files, but if that's the accepted practice...?
<pitti> asac: right, it's done in /usr/lib/ConsoleKit/run-session.d/pam-foreground-compat.ck
<pitti> asac: I thought d-bus shipped it, but it's shipped in CK
<asac> pitti: so is that upstream or ubuntu behaviour?
<pitti> that's an ubuntu change
<pitti> there is no upstream implementation of "at_console" in d-bus
<pitti> so anything that relies on it wouldn't work at all without that CK hook
<asac> pitti: i am still referring to the consolekit part ;)
<pitti> asac: right, but it's only there because of d-bus' at_console test
<pitti> if that would go away, we'd immediately drop /usr/lib/ConsoleKit/run-session.d/pam-foreground-compat.ck
<asac> besides from dbus dont using at_console it seems that distros disagree of when consolekit says that a user is @console
<pitti> asac: for CK itself we don't deviate from upstream in that regard
<pitti> you'll get a session for each su login
<pitti> and that's a correct behaviour IMHO
<pitti> (otherwise stuff would break)
<asac> pitti: ok thanks
<pitti> asac: I thought you'd only be worried about the d-bus policy "at_console" tests, not about CK itself?
<pitti> asac: so the problem is not actually in the d-bus policies, but in programs which ask CK directly?
<asac> pitti: no ... the problem is dbus, but since it takes that console info from consolekit we wondered on whether that particular behaviour (sudo su -> root @console) is ubuntu specific
<seb128> mvo: is there a way to use graphical tools to upgrade from jaunty to karmic?
<pitti> asac: no, "su anything" will always get a CK session, that's not ubuntu specific
<mpontillo> and seb128, thanks, that's why I'm here (to ask questions), but everyone is usually talking about more important things, so I don't like to butt in with noob questions unless they're well researched first ;)
<walters> asac: the CK behavior is standardized, *but* whether root gets @console is OS specific right now
<pitti> walters: how so?
<walters> pitti: it comes down to the PAM stack no?
<pitti> why should root not get a CK session, but every other user should?
<pitti> walters: I don't think that CK itself uses PAM
<pitti> walters: we just add libpam-consolekit to get CK sessions for VT and ssh logins
<pitti> walters: how do you configure it in Fedora?
<walters> pitti: well i don't have a strong opinion personally on whether 'su' should create CK sessions, I'm just saying that currently in Fedora the console PAM goo explicitly skips root and Ubuntu/SuSE do not
<walters> i'd be open to trying to bring fedora in line here but i
<pitti> walters: ah, so it's not at all root specific
<pitti> that makes more sense
<walters> right
<walters> but it'd take some digging as to rationale
<pitti> ok, then I misunderstood it
<pitti> walters: libpam-ck is pretty nice, so that local VT logins etc. get device ACLs and so on
<mvo> seb128: yes, update-manager -d works since yesterday
<seb128> mvo: where did I need to get this update-manager? jaunty-updates?
<walters> pitti: right i think the behavior is important for GDM, VT, and ssh
<walters> pitti: su/sudo just get really weird and horrible
<mvo> seb128: the stock update-manager should do - is that not working for you?
<seb128> mvo: dunno, I was checking with you before doing a mistake, I've running ubuntu and debian installs in kvm and my laptop disk is being slooow
<mvo> :)
<mvo> seb128: it should work just fine (I hope) - modulo the errors that are unavoidable at this stage from the package churn
<mvo> asac: thanks for the strace log, is there more context?
<mvo> asac: e.g.  a bugnumber?
<asac> mvo: no ;)
<asac> mvo: its not even a bug
<asac> mvo: i just showed you wondering about why dpkg does that .dpkg-new business you see in the trace
<asac> (in particular for directories)
<rickspencer3> bryce: ping
<bryce> rickspencer3: yep?
<rickspencer3> bryce: would you prefer that I spread the xorg sessions over all days at UDS, or bunch them up over a day or two?
<bryce> rickspencer3: bunched up, with two exceptions
<bryce> desktop-karmic-xorg-intel-upstreaming-working-session I'd like to be on its own day
<bryce> and desktop-karmic-xorg-intel-improve-upstreaming-process should be a day following the workshop
<rickspencer3> k
<rickspencer3> I'll put those in the small room, figuring it will be easier to focus on doing work in that room
<rickspencer3> bryce: so I think Tuesday will kind of be "x day" in the main room, and then Wed/Thur for the other two
<bryce> rickspencer3: perfect
<pitti> rickspencer3: the "proposed" spec confuse me
<rickspencer3> which one?
<pitti> they are actually just "proposed" for uds-karmic, but nevertheless appear on the list already
<rickspencer3> because I am experiencing a lot of confusion right now
<rickspencer3> are they ones that I created?
<mvo> asac: its doing it for various reasons, one is to avoid the infamous text-file-busy error if you try to e.g. overwrite a library that is currently mapped, one is to have a rollback mechanism if the package is corrupted half-way through
<asac> mvo: yeah. but i dont see that it actually uses those .dpkg-new instances of the system.d directory.
<asac> mvo: my question isnt about files, but about the directories
 * mvo loooks again, harder
<pitti> rickspencer3: I went through the proposed list now and ack'ed 19
 * pitti -> dinner
<rickspencer3> thanks pitti!
<rickspencer3> I'll try to get them scheduled asap
<crevette_> pitti, diner is so earlier in germany ?
 * crevette_ has not left the job yet
<mvo> asac: IIRC - I read the dpkg source about this some time ago - its about dealing with directories that might get replaced with files or vice versa
<mvo> asac: but the fact that its doing this dance with rmdir() is a bit myserious, might be just because its no harm doing it
<asac> mvo: ah ok.
<asac> mvo: thanks. i think thats enough
<asac> otherwise we might find a bug and the fix would probably cause lots of regression headaches ;)
<asac> so better not look closer
<Keybuk> asac: what's the question?
<Keybuk> .dpkg-new?
<Keybuk> because if you just overwrite an open file, strange things happen
<Keybuk> (or errors, if you're lucky)
<walters> Keybuk: the not-immediately-obvious part i think was why it was doing an rmdir of foo.dpkg-new files, not why it was doing foo.dpkg-new + rename(foo)
<asac> Keybuk: yeah. the question was about "directories"
<pitti> crevette_: I usually have dinner at 6 pm when I have Taekwondo in the evening, so that I don't do sport with my belly filled :)
<crevette_> ah
<seb128> I get dinner after sport ;-)
<pitti> seb128: me too :)
 * crevette_ doesn't do sport
<pitti> dinner I at 18:00, dinner II at 23:00
<seb128> pitti: double dinner? ;-)
<seb128> get calories, spend those, get new ones
<pitti> good night everyone
<crevette> bye pitti
<awe> night pitti!
<rickspencer3> awe: I feel that I may have missed a blueprint for you for Karmic
<awe> rickspencer3: i think the plan it for asac and i to create a combined networking-karmic blueprint...
<rickspencer3> awe: do you know if it's been submitted?
<awe> rickspencer3: no, but i'll check
<rickspencer3> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-karmic-network-ui ?
<rickspencer3> thanks awe
<rickspencer3> we'll get it worked out :)
<awe> that's a small subset
<rickspencer3> awe: ok
<awe> rickspencer3: asac sent me this earlier:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/KarmicNetworking
<rickspencer3> awe: right
<awe> i'm going to try and add to it, and we've scheduled time to discuss 1st thing tomorrow
<rickspencer3> we'll synch with pitti tomorrow
<awe> cool
<rickspencer3> it's possible that he thinks a UDS session is not required
<rickspencer3> thanks
<awe> ok, i think we should have one... there's a lot of room for improvement.  ;)
<rickspencer3> there are a lot of open slots, so "no stress"
<awe> sounds good to me
<dobey> mvo, pitti: btw, new apturl solves my issue. thanks!
<dobey> hrmm
<dobey> what /are/ the criterion for SRU?
<mnemo> dobey: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#When
<dobey> mnemo: thanks
<dobey> hmm
<mvo> dobey: excellent, thanks
<dobey> mvo: thanks for fixing it :)
<mpontillo> asac: updated bug 332253 with a new patch - is that more like what you expected?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 332253 in epiphany-browser "Epiphany doesn't mention Ubuntu in user agent string" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/332253
<asac> mpontillo: thats probably ok. sedding is a bit ugly though imo. another idea would be to remove those lines in a patch and just append the new lines using echo 'pref(....)' >> path/to/defaults-pref.js in rules
<asac> mpontillo: also helper scripts shouldnt be shipped in top level dir ... at least put it into debian/
<mpontillo> asac: thanks for the feedback. I liked the sed solution better since the patch won't break on the off chance that those lines are moved around in the prefs file and lose their context. then again, if someone radically changes the prefs file upstream, the patch will break and we'd know immediately with your idea. I can change the helper script to 'echo' instead.
<asac> mpontillo: sed expressions are not really stable
<asac> mpontillo: the problem with those is that you won't notice if they fail
<asac> e.g. you might end up getting bad syntax in that js file and you wont automatically notice
<asac> while patching out calls for attention more reliably. e.g. when the file changes in a way that the patch doesnt apply you probably want to take a look anyway
<mpontillo> asac: right, that's what I meant by my "radical upstream changes" comment. it'd be pretty tough for those specific statements to fail, but if for example they changed the names of those prefs, it would. having a patch remove the lines explicitly would catch it.
<asac> mpontillo: yes. thats what i suggested
<asac> patch to remove those lines
<asac> and append them in rules using lsb_release
<asac> this will also prevent adding a helper script ;)
<hallyn> is there a known issue with gnome-terminal not updating with the nvidia drivers?  by known, I mean, well-understood?
<mpontillo> asac: right, and I will make that change. is it safe to do ". /etc/lsb-release" in the rules file? that's why I still thought it'd be nice to encapsulate that functionality in a helper script
<asac> mpontillo: why not just do ... echo 'pref("....", "`lsb_release -r`)' >> .../defaults-prefs.js
<asac> with a ; ;)
<calc> asac: can you process 372756 ?
<asac> bug 372756
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 372756 in boost1.37 "please move to main from universe" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/372756
<calc> asac: pitti earlier today said it didn't need a MIR report
<asac> i dont have powers to promote ... just to sign off ;)
<calc> oh ok
<asac> you need to be ubuntu-archive or something to do the actual promotion
<calc> oh so just pitti, kees, doko?
<mpontillo> asac: lsb_release just gets the info from /etc/lsb-release, which already has the info in a format the shell can understand. if I run lsb_release directly, I have to do some funky echo and cut operations to get the info I need by itself
<mpontillo> asac: in other words, it seems cleaner to just do ". /etc/lsb-release" - and if it's safe to do that in 'rules', fine, but if not I'd prefer a helper script
<asac> mpontillo: you can do lsb_release -s -r  ... so you dont need "cut"
<mpontillo> asac: ah, thanks. missed that argument
<mpontillo> will do that then.
<asac> calc: kees doesnt have that power either afaik
<asac> calc: all archive admins can do that afaik
<asac> mpontillo: when you have the patch let me know. i can do the upload if you want
<mpontillo> asac: have a patch now, about to rebuild and test. will let you know in a few mins
<asac> yeah, no hurry
<calc> oh i see
<mpontillo> asac: updated bug 332253
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 332253 in epiphany-browser "Epiphany doesn't mention Ubuntu in user agent string" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/332253
<pace_t_zulu> asac: you here?
<pace_t_zulu> i guess i missed asac... been trying to contact him
<mpontillo> I'm sure he'll be back...
<asac> pace_t_zulu: about what?
<pace_t_zulu> hi asac I was just about to write you an email
<pace_t_zulu> asac: i am interested in the chromium project
<asac> pace_t_zulu: what parts are you most interested in?
<pace_t_zulu> asac: building and documentation
<asac> mpontillo: so how does the user agent string look like now? have you checked?
<pace_t_zulu> asac: the instructions at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Chromium/Build are not sufficient
<pace_t_zulu> asac: i was maintaining instructions at http://help.ubuntu.com/community/Chromium ... that URL now redirects to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Chromium/Build
<mpontillo> asac: yes, it comes back "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en; rv:1.9.0.10) Gecko/20080528 Ubuntu/9.04 (9.04) Epiphany/2.22 Firefox/3.0"
<mpontillo> asac: hah, nevermind, guess you caught a bug ;)
<asac> mpontillo: two bugs ;)
<asac> mpontillo: in brackets there is the codename
<asac> and the Epiphany/2.22 has to go most likely
<asac> otherwise i would expect some websites to go nuts
<asac> however: this means that Epiphany wont be anywhere anymore :)
<pace_t_zulu> asac: i would like to contribute to the project...
<mpontillo> asac: really? I thought each whitespace-separated "blob" was treated separately
<pace_t_zulu> asac: I email Fabien in English
<asac> mpontillo: well. i dont know what the standard says. but in practice there are bunch of crappy webapps out there that get it wrong
<asac> pace_t_zulu: yeah. so the instructions dont work for the "upstream" way?
<pace_t_zulu> asac: when i realized he is French speaking i translated the email and resent it... but i have yet to receive a response
<pace_t_zulu> asac: perhaps I am missing something
<asac> pace_t_zulu: he is out for a another few weeks i think
<pace_t_zulu> asac: i'd like to become a part of the project
<asac> pace_t_zulu: yeah so ... besides from keeping the .daily build alive
<pace_t_zulu> asac: and i feel like the first step towards that is to be able to successfully build chromium on a stock system
<asac> i think one of the major tasks left is to allow more system libs to be used
<pace_t_zulu> asac: even perhaps using pbuilder
<asac> pace_t_zulu: if thats what you want to do, do it. it cant hurt being able to build chromium ;)
<asac> pace_t_zulu: so follow the instructions on the wiki
<pace_t_zulu> asac: yes there is a problem with python-tlslite
<pace_t_zulu> asac: that package is not available through MOTU
<asac> pace_t_zulu: its availble in the chromium-daily ppa
<asac> pace_t_zulu: use that to get started
<asac> https://edge.launchpad.net/~chromium-daily/+archive/ppa
<pace_t_zulu> asac: ok... is there further documentation of the "upstream way" that i should be aware of?
<asac> pace_t_zulu: so .... to get started branch the chromium.daily bzr branch (like on the wiki) ... install the build-deps after adding chromium daily to your sources.list
<asac> pace_t_zulu: i wouldnt think there is
<asac> pace_t_zulu: point is if you want to contribute here, you definitly want to know how to use the packaging branches
<pace_t_zulu> asac: should i be looking for a debian chromium group? or is upstream in these case just the chromium project?
<asac> pace_t_zulu: because at least half of the work is usually packaging stuff ... supplemented by developing patches to make chromium ready for good packaging
<asac> pace_t_zulu: upstream is just chromium
<asac> pace_t_zulu: e.g. no debian
<mpontillo> asac: for what it's worth, the chromium daily's user agent reports "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US) AppleWebKit/530.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/2.0.178.0 Safari/530.9". guess they'll need a similar patch ;)
<pace_t_zulu> asac: that is how i want to contribute (getting chromium ready for good packaging)
<pace_t_zulu> asac: i'd like to help in any way possible
<asac> mpontillo: tweaking user agents is a hard thing to verify what comes out of it ... using an unofficial/unreleased build and copy that might not be the best idea ;)
<asac> mpontillo: but well ... we can try in karmic.
<asac> pace_t_zulu: yeah. so to get ready, setup your work environment first. get the bzr branches, try the instrcution how to produce a orig.tar.gz
<asac> pace_t_zulu: once you feel comfortable that you can handle it, the task would be to look for in source libs that are duplicated and that could be using our system libs
<asac> then identify if the version they ship is similar to what we have and if they  have applied any hacks/patches in their source tree
<mpontillo> https://developer.mozilla.org/En/User_Agent_Strings_Reference is a good reference - sounds like the current Firefox doesn't even follow their suggestion exactly
<pace_t_zulu> asac: thank you for your time... i'd like to be a valuable contributor to the chromium-project... hopefully become a member of the chromium team
<pace_t_zulu> asac: I will let you know when I successfully build
<pace_t_zulu> asac: thank you for taking the time to answer my questions and point me the right way
<asac> no problem
<mpontillo> asac: here's what the standard says: http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2068#section-14.42
<asac> i would suggest to look at the RFCs
<asac> mpontillo: yeah. still problem is that standards are only good if they are followed by websites
<mpontillo> right. actually this RFC section is the most current: http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2616#section-14.43 ... basically it says you can put as many as you like. that's why the mozilla link was also useful
<asac> there have been prominent websites in the past that broek because of stupid changes to the agent
<asac> as i said ... we can try for epiphany ;)
<mpontillo> right, badly coded user agent strings have been a pet peeve of mine for awhile. I had to use the user agent switcher extension to file my taxes with turbotax online ;)
<asac> see what i mean ;)?
<mpontillo> and this was just with vanilla firefox/linux!
<asac> so maybe eliminating epiphany from the user-agent string all together would make sense
<asac> would be kind of a tough move
<asac> but given that epiphanies market share is probably minor, i am not sure if anyone would really notice ;)
<asac> mpontillo: anyway. imo the patch is ok
<asac> it uses only prefs that exist in firefox
<mpontillo> asac: okay, I have a new one for you (one character change) that fixes that dang comment bug
<mpontillo> but I'm sure you could handle that yourself ;)
<asac> just remember to subscribe to bugmail and if folks complain that a site doesnt work anymore (because of user-agent) we need to take action i guess
<mpontillo> right, I'm subscribed.
<asac> mpontillo: check a few popular AJAX sites, like gmail/yahoo new mail interface/hotmail and stuff maybe ... or other sites you know that try to be smart and block users depedning on user-agent string
<asac> mpontillo: ok. can you give me the bug id please?
<asac> got it
<mpontillo> asac: 1 sec, I'll post the new patch if it does what I expect. installing new deb now. it's bug 372756
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 372756 in boost1.37 "please move to main from universe" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/372756
<asac> mpontillo: yeah. remember to use the codename instead of version in brackets
<asac> i think thats vendorSub
<mpontillo> arg, copy/paste error - bug 332253 - trying to do too many thigns at once
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 332253 in epiphany-browser "Epiphany doesn't mention Ubuntu in user agent string" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/332253
<asac> mpontillo: heh. so its vendorComment
<asac> mpontillo: so change vendorComment to contain the code name. that matches what we have in firefox default install
<asac> mpontillo: and do a full debdiff if you want to be the changelog owner ;)
<mpontillo> k - need to go learn how to use debdiff, sorry for any delays, holding a kid on my lap and feeding another kid a sippy cup, limited bandwidth
<asac> mpontillo: so do: apt-get source epiphany-browser
<asac> create new changelog entry nd apply your patch
<asac> then build sources:
<asac> debuild -S
<asac> for instance
<asac> then you can run debdiff *.dsc
<asac> mpontillo: to create new changelog entry use "dch -i"
<mpontillo> asac: right, so the first thing I did after apt-get source was the dch -i, and I "quilted" my patch in... running the debdiff seems to produce a lot of extra junk I didn't change though. I suppose I need to change the quilt control file to ensure my patch is at the end?
<asac> mpontillo: yeah. thats the bad about the some packages. they are not "clean"
<mpontillo> (I popped the 99_ ones off the quilt stack before I started my work)
<asac> mpontillo: so just do a fresh apt-get source
<asac> apply your changes
<asac> and dont build binaries
<asac> just sources: debuild -S
<mpontillo> ah, okay. will do
<mpontillo> updated bug 332253, new patch here http://launchpadlibrarian.net/26411305/epiphany_lsb_useragent_debdiff.patch
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 332253 in epiphany-browser "Epiphany doesn't mention Ubuntu in user agent string" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/332253
<mpontillo> asac: oh, wait - I signed it with my pgp key as well, do I need to attach a separate file to verify that?
<mpontillo> ah, just now saw your email, sorry
<asac> mpontillo: why do you want to verify that ?
<asac> just need debdiff ;)
<mpontillo> asac: okay, wasn't sure what the process was. how does the process work? somehow you need to put that into debian/patches, right?
<mpontillo> (...in other words, I'm wondering if I missed a step; i.e. was I supposed to create a patch that included the quilt control file change, and my patch file - not the changes from that patch file?)
<asac> mpontillo: well. you need to add the patch that touches code base into debian/patches
<asac> the changes you did to rules just go to debian/rules directly
<asac> and you also need to change debian/patches/series accordingly
<asac> document all in the changelog
<asac> and the do a debdiff on that
<mpontillo> asac: okay; I need to re-do it then. when you said "apply your changes" I thought you meant "patch -p1 < mypatch-from-debian/patches". sorry - used to working with source control systems, not patches!
<asac> mpontillo: sorry for the confusion.
<mpontillo> asac: no worries, I don't think it's the easiest process. I'm taking notes. maybe I'll update the wiki to make any instructions clearer
<asac> mpontillo: yeah. its a bit unfortunate that you hit a package that doesnt build cleanly ;)
<asac> lesson learned ... whenever i want to do a drive-by change to a package i dont know i try to remember to run a debuild -S before doing a test build ... i nthat way i can unpack the clean sources after build ;) ... annoying if you want to do serious works obviously.
<rickspencer3> bryce_: holy cow, that was fast!
<bryce_> :-)
<asac> is bryce_ sprinting :-P?
<rickspencer3> bryce_: sortable by chipset and symptom!
<rickspencer3> asac: I mentioned a view onto intel bugs to bryce at about 11:30am this morning, figuring we'd work on it over the next few weeks
<asac> heh. fast indeed ;)
<rickspencer3> and it shows up like magic not even four hours later!
<bryce_> hehe
<bryce_> well, to be honest this is stuff I've been working on for a while; the tags and chipset stuff was pretty straightforward to add to it
<rickspencer3> bryce_: lot more 945 stuff than I was expecting
<bryce_> http://www2.bryceharrington.org:8080/X/symptoms_intel.html
<rickspencer3> can your server handle the traffic ;)
<rickspencer3> maybe you should put some google ads up there :P
<bryce_> of course, I've got FIOS ;-)
<mpontillo> asac: *sigh*, still wasn't getting the right result, figured out that I had to do "debdiff --control --controlfiles rules *.dsc" or debdiff left out the change to the 'rules' file
<asac> mpontillo: for me just doing debdiff *.dsc worked
<asac> (always)
<asac> no arguments needed
<mpontillo> asac: it didn't diff the 'rules' file when I left that out, even though it was in my .dsc and not the original one created from "debuild -S -us -uc" after the fresh "apt-get source"
<mpontillo> argh, today is not my day, I accidentally hit "enter" at the wrong time when attaching the new debdiff, so the patch description is garbled
<asac> you can delete attachments from bugs;)
<mpontillo> can I? I don't see the option to.
<mpontillo> in any case, after *way* too much work just to change a simple config file, I think the good patch is indeed here: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/26412707/epiphany_lsb_release_good_debdiff.patch
<mpontillo> okay I must need coffee. ;) I take back what I said about the rules file. I think it worked the first time. my apologies.
<asac> mpontillo: yeah that looks good ;)
<asac> thanks
<mpontillo> to summarize the "best practice" here: always run "debuild -S -us -uc" after running "apt-get source <pkg>", change only the control files needed for `what-patch` to do the right thing, do not include control files in the patch in debian/patches, edit the changelog, run "debuild -S" again, then run "debdiff *.dsc".
<asac> mpontillo: only nit is that it should be "karmic" not "jaunty". but i can change that
<asac> mpontillo: hmm not sure if lp: #... works ... i will change that to LP: #... too
<mpontillo> asac: no problem, hopefully my next bug will be faster, now that I kind of know what I'm doing. ;) I had no idea there would be so much to learn... and yeah my dev box is still jaunty, because I don't have a dedicated dev box yet (working on that).
<mpontillo> asac: I copied the "lp:" line from later in the changelog
<asac> mpontillo: i changed the comment a bit ... and uploaded
<mpontillo> asac: cool, thanks! now we sit back and wait for reports of all the web sites with broken user agent parsing... maybe all 3 epiphany users on karmic will find them fast ;)
<asac> lol ... more or less yes ;)
<asac> mpontillo: just remember to listen to bugs during Beta or RC ;)
<asac> but i think webkit might actually end up being the ephy default by then. so lets see
<asac> anyway ... out for today. let me know if there are issues with the build or something
<mpontillo> thanks for all your help
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-05-07
<nekro_> suspend/resume doesn't seem to work on a dell xps studio I own. Is this a question for the kernel team?
<mpontillo> ppc build of epiphany-browser failed - is this something I need to worry about? how do I tell if it was already broken? http://launchpadlibrarian.net/26413384/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-powerpc.epiphany-browser_2.26.1-0ubuntu2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell: good morning
<rickspencer3> just saying "hi" before I log off!
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3-afk: :)
<ubunoob> hello
<ubunoob> anyone awake?
<ubunoob> i have a jaunty question.... anyone?
<pitti> Good morning
<asac> hi
<robert_ancell> pitti: are autoconf patches only required if a package fails to build?
<pitti> robert_ancell: no, they are only required if a patch in debian/ubuntu changes any Makefile.am or configure.ac
<pitti> usually upstream's autoconfiscation should work
<pitti> (if we don't patch the build system)
<robert_ancell> cool, I can get rid of the autoconf patch for gnome-games then
<robert_ancell> pitti: ps, seb128 wanted me to SRU the totem changes (I do too).  Ask him about it when he comes online.  I'll be making 2.27 packages for totem tomorrow for Karmic
<robert_ancell> does anyone know what the state of clutter is in Ubuntu?  Gnometris now requires clutter - do we no longer support it?
<didrocks> Guten Morgen pitti :)
<didrocks> hey robert_ancell
<pitti> hey didrocks
<didrocks> robert_ancell: last time, I didn't build gnome-games with clutter. We discussed about that some monthes ago with seb128 as it was not required and not everybody have a decent driver to handle clutter
<didrocks> but yes, I saw that now it becomes a mandatory for gnometris
<robert_ancell> didrocks: can gnome-games have a build-depends on gnometris?  Can we split gnometris into a separate package?
<didrocks> robert_ancell: I think it's possible to split it into a separate package, with two configures option (I don't rememeber if --enable-cluter is processed for everygames). Maybe patch the configure.in and split the package is a good idea. It's better to discuss that with seb128, I think :)
<didrocks> robert_ancell: did you have ever tried to run something based on clutter without 3D acceleration?
<didrocks> what's the result?
<robert_ancell> sure.  I'm building currently with --enable-omitgames=gnometris
<pitti> robert_ancell: okay; please request an SRU on the actual bugs then
<didrocks> that can be useful :)
<robert_ancell> I don't know about clutter.  I developed glChess without hardware support and it runs ok
<didrocks> ok, I think with gnome-shell this question about clutter will become more and more important in a very near futur
<didrocks> maybe it worths a discussion at UDS
<pochu> didrocks: there's a session for GNOME 3, you can raise it there :-)
<didrocks> pochu: great. I will :)
<pochu> I hope the session lasts two hours ;)
<didrocks> pochu: yes, there is a lot of stuff to decide on it :)
<didrocks> pochu: do you come at UDS too?
<pochu> yup :)
<crevette> hello
<didrocks> lut crevette
<crevette> salut didrocks
<robert_ancell> see you guys tomorrow
<chrisccoulson> anyone here has any interest in hal?
<seb128> chrisccoulson: hey, pitti has I would say, why?
<chrisccoulson> i wrote a patch to fix a crasher and proposed a merge in to the ubuntu-core-dev branch, but I didn't select a reviewer and i don't think anyone was notified of the merge request. i was looking for someone to review the patch:)
<seb128> I don't think that feature works fine, still much better to have a bug and subscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors
<seb128> so it's listed on the sponsoring page and people don't forget about it
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i might do that. is that still correct even though there isn't technically anything to sponsor (it's all just in bzr at the moment - I haven't attached a patch to the bug report)
<seb128> you can add the bzr to the bug
<chrisccoulson> i've done that. i'll subscribe u-m-s too. thanks
<seb128> you're welcome
<slomo> seb128: hi :) you want to sync gstreamer0.10, gst-plugins-base0.10 0.10.22.4-1 and gst0.10-python 0.10.14.4-1 from debian/experimental :)
<seb128> slomo: hello, ok thanks
<seb128> mvo: there?
<mvo> seb128: yes
<seb128> mvo: update-manager -d doesn't do anything useful on jaunty
<mvo> seb128: I wonder if its because of the proxy in the office
<mvo> seb128: what does your .update-manager-core/meta-release-development file look like? is this a jaunty system? or karmic already?
<seb128> it's jaunty
<seb128> mvo: karmic is listed
<seb128> mvo: it's a jaunty stock install in kvm updated to current versions
<seb128> ie upgrades applied
<mvo> seb128: let me check here on a fresh jaunty install
<seb128> mvo: don't bother, I just edit the sources.list and update the classic dist-upgrade way
<mvo> seb128: please wait a minute
<seb128> ok
<mvo> seb128: can you please run: "DEBUG_UPDATE_MANAGER=1 update-manager -d" and pastebin me the output? (I hope there is some :)
<seb128> mvo: current dist name: 'jaunty'
<seb128> and nothing after that?
<mvo> seb128: that is all?
<seb128> no but it's in kvm and I can select and copy there easily
<seb128> anything specific you want to know?
<seb128> usedevel= true
<seb128> -development
<seb128> .download()
<mvo> seb128: could you open a browser in kvm and just copy-paste to a pastebin there?
<seb128> .parse()
<mvo> seb128: or is net not working in it?
<seb128> mvo: 165967
<mvo> seb128: thanks, I check it out now
<seb128> mvo: that the pastebin.ubuntu.com number
<mvo> thanks seb128
<seb128> mvo: it's working for you?
<mvo> seb128: I'm looking for a stock image currently :)
<mvo> seb128: could you please try now?
<seb128> mvo: working now
<seb128> mvo: so it was a bug on the server side?
<seb128> slomo: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/22961501/gst0.10-python_0.10.14-1_0.10.14-1ubuntu1.diff.gz, gst-python has those changes not sure if they would make sense for debian
<mvo> seb128: on my side, but fortunately I can work around it on the server. many thanks!
<seb128> mvo: thank you for the quick fixing as usual
<mvo> seb128: thank you for finding all my bugs :)
<seb128> mvo: it's complaining about some packages.bz2 checksum not being correct
<mvo> *sigh*
<mvo> that will be a proxy issues, I'm sure
<seb128> I guess that's a server issue and not your issue
<slomo> seb128: hm, probably makes sense for debian too
<slomo> seb128: i'll include that change and upload a new version now
<mvo> I need to talk to elmo about this at some point to figure out what we can do about it to make them in sync again
<seb128> mvo: since when are we using .bz2 and not .gz?
<seb128> slomo: thanks!
 * mvo waves to slomo
<mvo> seb128: some time, a couple of releases. we still fallback to .gz if e.g. bzip2 is not installed
<mvo> (or not availalbe on the server)
<slomo> hi mvo :)
<seb128> mvo: ok, so nothing I can do to kick the proxy there?
<mvo> seb128: you can try "sudo apt-get update -o Acquire::http::No-Cache=1" with the karmic sources.list, that should give it a kick
<mvo> seb128: e.g. when the error screen is there (when the error screen is there you need toappend -o Debug::NoLocking=true" as well)
<mvo> seb128: while the error screen is there the sources.list is rewriten so that should be fine
<seb128> mvo: no luck, same error
<seb128> sum mismatch error
<seb128> ok, no karmic for me apparently then
<seb128> mvo: ok, it's working now
<mvo> seb128: so the run after the apt-get update with u-m did succeed?
<seb128> no
<seb128> the apt-get calls failed the same way
<seb128> but it autofixed after a while
<seb128> that was either a server or proxy issue
<mvo> k
<seb128> I blame it on the office I have only such issues when I'm there
<pitti> hm, I did a dist-upgrade this morning, worked fine
<seb128> pitti: it's working fine now for me too
<seb128> pitti: do you copy proposed uploads to karmic or only -updates ones?
<pitti> seb128: I usually do it when I copy to -updates, why?
<seb128> pitti: because I had karmic issues and that's because I upgraded from jaunty with proposed used to karmic
<seb128> and I had binaries newer than the karmic version
<seb128> I'm wondering if it wouldn't make sense to copy directly the binaries, so they could get extra testing on karmic too
<seb128> and that would have that versions mismatch issues after upgrade
<pitti> seb128: right, it's just a matter of checking when they are built
<seb128> ah right
<seb128> hey rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> hi seb128
<kenvandine_wk> hey rickspencer3
<seb128> waouh, pitti on g1 and ubuntu?
<pitti> seb128: nah, just on G1 and android :)
<seb128> ah ok
<kenvandine_wk> hehe
 * pitti_g1 waves from phone
<kenvandine_wk> pitti: what do you use for irc on the G1?  the app i have is crashy
<seb128> I'm less impressed then ;-)
<kenvandine_wk> fIRC
<pitti_g1> ken
<pitti_g1> fIRC, yes
<pitti_g1> works fine here
<Bassoon> Question: I have an ATI Radeon 3100 card in my laptop .. when i turn on DEsktop effects ... Things like Google earth and Secondlife go crazy. Kinda flicker ... I have seen this on some of the post .. but can it be worked around ...Sorry .. im a newbie ... and it's ubuntu 9.04 with the hardware drives installed .. from .. "hardware driver"  under system
<kenvandine_wk> mine disconnects frequently... and requires a restart to connect again
<pitti> kenvandine_wk: I haven't used it for so lnog
<pitti> kenvandine_wk: I just got the android 1.5 update yesterday, and a lot of apps stopped working
<pitti> kenvandine_wk: so I was testing what still works
<kenvandine_wk> oh!
<pitti> fortunately, ICQ, IRC, and ssh still work
<kenvandine_wk> i haven't gotten 1.5
<pitti> but gps status and fastbright are broken now :/
<kenvandine_wk> ok... so not a good update :/
<pitti> kenvandine_wk: oh, it's nice
<pitti> just some third-party apps need to catch up, I guess
<kenvandine_wk> ah
<kenvandine_wk> any improvements to the camera?
<pitti> kenvandine_wk: yes, it's much faster
<kenvandine_wk> i read something in the release notes about that
<pitti> and there's a camcorder now, too
<kenvandine_wk> good!
<kenvandine_wk> woot
<pitti> and google talk, and some other new stuff
<pitti> some cleaner menus, and a lot of little new features
 * calc thinks he may wait for the samsung 7500 android phone
<kenvandine_wk> calc: i really like the G1 hardware
<calc> it should be out a few months once i finally get off my current contract :\
 * kenvandine_wk wonders when he will get the goodness of 1.5
<calc> kenvandine_wk: in the US next week i hear
<kenvandine_wk> cool
<pitti> kenvandine_wk: did you see that labyrinth program?
<kenvandine_wk> nope
<pitti> I wasn't aware before that the G1 had so precise position sensors
<pitti> and of course the metal detector is just awesome, in a "hilarious" kind of way :)
<crevette> pitti, how much cost this G1 ? (/me tires to resist to a gizmo addiction)
<pitti> crevette: with my contract, 1 EUR
<pitti> without a contract, it's $399, I think
<crevette> nice
<pitti> but of course I have to pay 40 EUR/month for the phone and 3G/EDGE/telephony flatrate
<calc> iirc its ~ $150 in the US on contract
<pitti> but *shrug*, it's such a nice toy
<kenvandine_wk> calc: 179
<calc> pitti: :-P so cheap in germany
<pitti> calc: the monthly fee has the subsidy
<calc> pitti: flatrate in the US is very expensive
<kenvandine_wk> pitti: my wife just got a blackberry... i hate it
<pitti> calc: well, FSVO "flat"
<calc> pitti: iirc in the US that would $179 for the phone and another $100+ per month for flatrate
<pitti> they throttle you to some ridiculously slow bandwidth once you surpass 2 GB a month or something such
<pitti> calc: (!)
 * kenvandine_wk installs labyrinth lite
<pitti> but most of the time, I'm not downloading huge stuff
<kenvandine_wk> calc: not that bad
<calc> pitti: ah, i think the US flatrate throttle is usually ~ 5GB/mo
<pitti> I just want to get mail, calendar updates, icq, stuff like that
<kenvandine_wk> my plan is just $54.99 total
<pitti> most of the time I don't even use 3G
<pitti> even andnav and google maps are fast enough with EDGE
<kenvandine_wk> and now with my wife's blackberry with a data plan... it is still less than we payed for our old fashioned phones
<kenvandine_wk> :)
<kenvandine_wk> oh this is an awesome game!
<calc> kenvandine_wk: well at least in houston the tmobile unlimited plan is $100/mo
<calc> then another $25/mo for unlimited web on top of that
<calc> $100/mo is apparently just for phone service
<calc> oh nm the web service appears to be included for $100/mo it shows up as an addon but is not selectable
<kenvandine_wk> calc: weird...
<kenvandine_wk> my unlimited web is just 24.99
<calc> anyone know if building against cups is generally broken atm?
<calc> it seems OOo is failing against it
<calc> kenvandine_wk: well apparently its either a $25 add on or free in some packages such as the $100 unlimited plan
<pitti> kenvandine_wk: I wish there was neverball for the G1
<pitti> calc: "against cups"?
<calc> kenvandine_wk: actually it seems its not included it just forces you to autoadd it so unlimited phone and web is $125/mo
<pitti> calc: a lot of packages currently fail because linux-libc-dev stopped shipping asm/*
<calc> kenvandine_wk: once i got to checkout it showed that as the monthly rate
<calc> pitti: ah maybe that is it
<kenvandine_wk> calc: i just have a cheap plan... i don't actually call much :)
<calc> pitti: it claims it can't find cpus in configure
<kenvandine_wk> 300 minutes is plenty for me
<calc> kenvandine_wk: i don't think i use that much either, just comparing the 40E plan to US which is $125 for equivalent service it seems
<calc> kenvandine_wk: not too surprising considering broadband is similarly overpriced in the US as well
<pitti> calc: what do you guys pay for a DSL line?
<calc> pitti: i pay ~ $40/mo for 3mbps which is the best they even offer me
 * pitti pays 38 EUR/month for DSL 6000 flat and landline flat
<pitti> calc: that's pretty cheap, though
<calc> that is just for the dsl though not phone service
<calc> full phone service on top of that would probably add another $25 or so
<pitti> oh, 3 MBit, nevermind; I misread it
<crevette> In France we have fre.fr, whic propose 19,9 â¬ for triple play
<calc> i just voip
<crevette> free.fr
<crevette> 29,9
<pitti> crevette: pretty comparable then
 * pace_t_zulu feels like a sucker... Comcast is ricidulous
<calc> pitti: they offer much better service than i get about 800 ft closer to their office, heh
<crevette> we have, fuill internet, TV and Phone
<seb128> crevette: not only free
<seb128> crevette: neuf does the same for example
<crevette> they did a revolution because when free came all other ISP were obliged to lower they price et up their services
<crevette> seb128, because free put TNT on the market
<crevette> :)
<seb128> ?
<crevette> seb128, I hope they'll have their 3G licence
<seb128> the tnt is not a free thing
<asac> 3G license?
<calc> the US is just a bunch of localized monopolies so there really isn't any competition for pricing/service
<crevette> seb128, I was meaning they did changed all the rules
<seb128> asac: there is only 3 operators which are authorized to do 3G right now
<seb128> asac: they want to open an extra spot
<dobey> calc: not really.
<calc> pitti: any estimate for when the header issue will be resolved wrt asm/* ?
<dobey> calc: there's really only Sprint, Verizon, AT&T, and T-mo
<seb128> crevette: still they have nothing to do with the numeric TV or TNT
<calc> dobey: for local service?
<crevette> seb128, forget about I said
<dobey> calc: all the little mini local providers buy bandwidth from one of those 4
<dobey> calc: mostly from verizon and sprint
<calc> dobey: yea you can get the one of those that is in the area you are served by
<seb128> crevette: ok ;-)
<dobey> because they're mostlay all cdma services
<pitti> calc: no idea; rtg ack'ed the bug and set it to "in progress", so I hope by tomorrow
<asac> seb128: ah. so they want to buy the right to use a frequency ;)
<calc> dobey: CLECs never really took off well due to the laws changing that helped them out
<seb128> asac: yes
<crevette> asac, and the business model of this ISP is quite different from the others
<calc> dobey: and any particular area only has one ILEC and usually a cable company, so you have your choice between say ATT and Time-Warner
<asac> crevette: how?
<crevette> so we can expect to have lower price for data plan et cellular communications
<calc> dobey: so not really any true competition in any real sense
<asac> no money?
<asac> ;)
<dobey> calc: oh, i thought you were talking about cellular
<calc> dobey: ah yea cellular is different in that there are at least 3 national providers and tons of little regional ones
<dobey> calc: right, for hardline there's really only time warner and verizon, or whatever your local telco monopoly is for dsl
<crevette> asac, they develop themself a lot of thing (like the set top box which run Linux) and rely a lot on OSS (so they have a lot of support from FOSS people)
<asac> cool
<calc> dobey: yea verizon is only in some areas of the US for landline, here for example my only choice is att for landline and comcast for cable
<crevette> asac, and tehy don't try to have hight money return, but develop a lot of additionnal services
<calc> pitti: ok
<dobey> calc: well the cable providers all do phone now too
<calc> pitti: that should be fine for me, just trying to fix the dumb OOo build errors and got really confused until you mentioned the header issue :)
<dobey> calc: i was confused because i saw t-mobile unlimited plan being mentioned :)
<pochu> crevette: I want free.es! :)
<calc> dobey: yea, still my option for broadband here is only 3mbps from att or 6mbps from comcast (probably with caps, but not sure)
<crevette> asac, I meant they down have high return per people, but as the same time they have a high market, free.fr earn a lot of money
<calc> dobey: other places that have healthy competition and no legalized monopolies have much better rates available even for the same population density
<dobey> calc: where is 'here'?
<calc> dobey: houston
<crevette> if you understand french an interview from the CEO worth the read
<crevette> pochu, ask them :)
<dobey> and you can only get 6mbit?
<calc> dobey: ~ 5-7Mil people in the city here aiui but still no real broadband availability
<calc> dobey: yea it sucks
<crevette> asac, he wants to divide by ten the price of cellular communication
<calc> dobey: some areas can get up to 18mbps but only where the monopolies feel like sticking it
<calc> dobey: and from what i can gather it is very limited areas
<dobey> calc: i have 20Mbps/3Mbps here (VA)
<crevette> asac, so current cellular vendors are affraid to see free having the new licence
<dobey> and that's only $50/mo
<dobey> +~$10/mo for streaming netflix (whoot)
<calc> dobey: :P
<calc> dobey: that would be nice for OOo uploads :)
<kenvandine_wk> dobey: who is your provider?
<asac> 24Mbps/2Mbps is 23 EUR here :-P
<dobey> kenvandine_wk: cox
<asac> but i have to admit that i am too lazy and haven't moved my connection there (bad mistake i figure)
<kenvandine_wk> dobey: damn... i sooooo hate time warner
<kenvandine_wk> dobey: i didn't know cox was in this area... you aren't that far from me :)
<dobey> kenvandine_wk: yeah. i don't know if you can get it or not
<kenvandine_wk> my uplink sucks... really sucks
<dobey> kenvandine_wk: i would have gotten verizon FiOS had it been available...
<kenvandine_wk> dobey: i am waiting for that :)
<kenvandine_wk> not holding  my breathe though
<kenvandine_wk> there is a rumor it will be this year
<dobey> yeah, some places in the area have it, just not the one i'm at apparently
<dobey> hopefully i'll be able to get it when i buy a house
<kenvandine_wk> my uplink used to be pretty good with TWC... but over the years it has gone down
<kenvandine_wk> uploading 3.4G of data with u1 really hurt :)
<crevette> when the public beta will be available (/me would like to confirm by itself what U1 is)
<crevette> :)
<artir> U1 is teh secret canonical stuff
<artir> ...
<artir> xd
<artir> if they tould you, they would have to kill you before and after
<artir> is a online platform to allow developers to create applications that uses canonical servers to sync info. Is like MobileMe, but open and with custom applications
 * artir runs away!
<Amaranth> Please not like MobileMe
<artir> why not?
<artir> because it's uber expensive, closed and doesn't wor with linux?
<Amaranth> Because MobileMe is like #2 on the reasons people call me
<Amaranth> It's confusing, buggy, and makes people accidentally delete all their contacts
<artir> XD
<artir> lets's say that is what apple wanted mobile me to be
<artir> i made a thread on the forums with all the info you may want
<pmatulis> for lockdown purposes, how does one remove the 'Edit Menus' option in the Panel?
<awe> pitti: ping
<pitti> hey awe, good morning
<awe> pitti, good afternoon to you
<awe> pitti: just wondering who our resident exiga expert is
<awe> pitti: been working on getting it setup this morning so i can chat with asac
<awe> pitti: the wiki instructions are a bit outdated
<awe> looks like settings changed a bit in jaunty
<pitti> awe: I followed the wiki instructions about a month ago, and they still worked
<pitti> awe: your canonical account doesn't work?
<awe> well, that was part of the problem.  had to get is do a reset.
<awe> nah, what i was asking about was the setting to turn off NAT traversal/STUN
<pitti> awe: ah, just ignore that
<pitti> it Just Works (TM)
<pitti> you just need user/password/host
<awe> it seems to be gone now...  ( OK, I'll add a note in the Wiki re: the new version / jaunty )
<awe> thanx!
<pitti> awe: works?
<awe> do you know the song "mother"?  if not, you should learn it for the canonjam
<pitti> awe: from which band is that?
 * pitti knows one from John Lennon
<awe> pitti: floyd... on the wall.  cool acoustic guitars
<awe> mother do you think they'll drop the bomb
<pitti> aah, that one
<pitti> awe: I would like to sing, but I'm afraid I won't be able to learn guitar for that one by Barcelona
 * pitti should do some practicing again
<asac> awe: so you are connected now ;)?
<awe> asac: close, but no cigar ( another floyd song )
 * rickspencer3 whip cracking noises
<rickspencer3> everyone on the desktop team, please note that peer review is due tomorrow!
<rickspencer3> I see that not everyone has rated their manager either
<rickspencer3> asac: Riddell: calc: ^^^^
<rickspencer3> a gentle reminder ;)
<Riddell> hmm?
<Riddell> I don't think I saw anything about rating manager
<rickspencer3> Riddell: it gets sent autmotically, but i can "resend" I think
<rickspencer3> hmm
<rickspencer3> looks like I can revoke the invitation too
 * rickspencer3 mwuhahaha
<Riddell> oh, it'll go into spam
<Riddell> gmail thinks the review requests are spam
<Riddell> rickspencer3: send it again and I'll dig it out
<rickspencer3> Riddell: I resnt
<rickspencer3> and Riddell, please look for teammates who have asked for feedback as well. Thanks!
<kenvandine_wk> rickspencer3: do i get to rate you too?
<rickspencer3> kenvandine_wk: I don't think so, because you missed the cutoff
<rickspencer3> lucky for me I suppose ;)
<pochu> can ai haz ratin? :)
<rickspencer3> seriously, peer review is very valuable, so if it's been requested, please take it seriously
<rickspencer3> pochu: do you think the HR tools over at icanhascheezburger are written like that?
<pochu> HR?
<rickspencer3> heh
<hggdh> pochu HR == Hot Ratings , lesser known as Human Resources
<pochu> ty
<pochu> yeah, I hope they are :)
<pitti> I'm off for today, friends of our's have their wedding eve today
 * pitti waves
<pitti> so in order to not get caught in the last 15 minutes I'll sign off now
<kenvandine_wk> later pitti!
<bryce_> heya rickspencer3, did you need me?
<calc> rickspencer3: ping
<rickspencer3> hi calc, 'sup?
<calc> rickspencer3: OOo 3.1.0 should be built as soon as the findutils bug is fixed :)
<rickspencer3> yeah!
<calc> there is another bug but it might somehow be related to the findutils issue, i can't work on that issue though until findutils works, heh
<calc> i had three different failure classes, cups headers didn't work due to findutils/linux-libc-dev issue, some sort of weird gcj issue (which may still need investigation), and a libltdl arch mismatch :)
<calc> so it looks like barring the gcj issue that my upload went relatively smoothly from my side anyway :)
<calc> and the final version of 3.1.0 is out now so as soon as i can get to debug the gcj issue i can upload it
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-05-08
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell: hi
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3: good evening
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell: I see we have a meeting schedule, shall I call?
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3: yes, I had forgot
<didrocks> robert_ancell: don't steal my updates (for vte ;)) :p
<robert_ancell> didrocks: yeah, sorry about that!  I did all the work and then I went to look at recent changes and you'd done it!
<robert_ancell> didrocks: Do you normally do vte? If so I'll take it off my list
<didrocks> robert_ancell: just kidding ^^
<pitti> Good morning
<robert_ancell> didrocks: did you merge with Debian?
<robert_ancell> pitti: hey pitti
<didrocks> robert_ancell: hum, well, there is no real attributed packages. I do what we split in IRC during a new GNOME release
<didrocks> hey pitti
<didrocks> robert_ancell: hum, not yet, it's on my list
<didrocks> robert_ancell: I will do it for Monday, surely
<robert_ancell> didrocks: I did some merging before I'd seen you were working on it, can send you the diff if you want
<didrocks> robert_ancell: oh yes, please :)
<didrocks> robert_ancell: normally, I do the merges where I was the last uploader
<didrocks> robert_ancell: it's the normal merge process. If you want to take a merge in the last, the best practice is to contact the last uploader
<didrocks> we really need to have something to "lock upgrades", telling "I'm working on it"
<robert_ancell> wiki page should do the trick
<didrocks> robert_ancell: we used a wiki page, for some ages
<didrocks> robert_ancell: it's with more than suboptimal :)
<robert_ancell> I guess the timezone means I can't check what people are working on.  The only packages I need to check are stuff that you guys leave overnight
<robert_ancell> I'm checking the Launchpad summary now to see before I start
<didrocks> robert_ancell: I know. I think we will discuss about it at UDS
<didrocks> robert_ancell: yes, but here, the bug was closed
<didrocks> just keep in mind this "rule" for merges
<didrocks> for the other stuff, yes, checking LP is a good practice
<didrocks> everybody has failed at least once, I think for parallel works :)
<didrocks> and thenâ¦ you checked LP ^^
<robert_ancell> didrocks: are there packages you tend to favour?
<didrocks> robert_ancell: not really. I just take what needs to be updated :)
<didrocks> robert_ancell: that's what I like with ubuntu, you can see a lot of different packaging technics
<robert_ancell> I'm currently focussing on: gcalctool, gnome-games, glade, glade-3, totem, vinagre, ekiga, gnome-terminal, metacity, compiz, avahi
<didrocks> ok, from that list, I'm used to update : gnome-games, totem, vinagre and gnome-terminal
<didrocks> but well, I think that a locking daemon will do the trick
<robert_ancell> sure, let me know if I need to go hunt some more packages
<didrocks> robert_ancell: I think we will see that with the first update :)
<didrocks> as I'm part of the community, I don't really have the time to check for bugs, appart when updating, though :/
<robert_ancell> see you all next week
<pitti> robert_ancell: enjoy the weekend!
<didrocks> pitti: if you have any free time today, please, give a look at bug #373582
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 373582 in vte "Please, merge vte 1:0.20.1 from debian unstable" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/373582
<pitti> didrocks: won't have time for merges, but I can do some sponsoring
<didrocks> pitti: the merge is done, it's just for sponsoring it :)
<pitti> didrocks: ah, nice
<didrocks> (see related branch)
<didrocks> no emergency on that, it's just if you have some time ;)
<didrocks> Have a good day everybody! I'm going to seize my off day :)
<pitti> didrocks: enjoy the long weekend!
<pitti> didrocks: are those patches sent upstream, too?
<pitti> didrocks: they don't have patch tag headers
<pitti> didrocks: 93_add_alt_screen_scroll_toggle.patch has, but not 91_keep_fds.patch
<didrocks> (back for few minutes)
<didrocks> pitti: yes, they are sent upstream. I just added the upstream tag now (btw, is there a wiki page for patch tag guidelines?)
<didrocks> pitti: and thanks for the long week-end. Have a nice week-end too :)
<pitti> didrocks: yes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/PatchTaggingGuidelines
<pitti> didrocks: meh, it doesn't build due to the kernel header breakage
<pitti> didrocks: you tested this on karmic?
<pitti> (with the earlier l-k-h?)
<didrocks> pitti: no, on jaunty as pbuilder scripts seems to not be ready
<pitti> ah, ok
<pitti> but it works on jaunty?
<didrocks> yes, it builds and run successfully
<pitti> okay, thanks
<didrocks> you're welcome :)
 * pitti downgrades to previous linux-libc-dev
<pitti> didrocks: enjoy your weekend, and thanks!
<didrocks> pitti: you too ;)
<Laney> syncable f-spot is go
<seb128> Laney: cool
<Laney> well, if half the archive weren't broken currently
<seb128> Laney: you have upload rights to debian now or did you get this one sponsored?
<Laney> meebey sponsored it for me
<Laney> I pretty much just copied the changes and wrote a new changelog entry
<Laney> wb
<seb128> re
<seb128> I will sync it later when it's on the mirrors
<Laney> ok, be warned that it does ftbfs due to the libc stuff
<seb128> I know about the libc issue
<seb128> I expect the buildd admin will auto-retry everything once it's fixed though
<Laney> sure
<Laney> yeah, cjwatson said as much on the bug
<pitti> hey seb128, wb!
<pitti> ~, sweet ~
 * seb128 hugs pitti
<seb128> hello
<seb128> how are you?
<pitti> pretty good
<pitti> made it back in one piece?
<seb128> it seems so ;-)
<seb128> yeah, the travel was eventless, that's a short flight and small airports
<seb128> pitti: could you look at bug #372746?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 372746 in gnome-settings-daemon "gnome-settings-daemon vs OO.o fonts" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/372746
<seb128> it's a change which has been dropped in a sru and the update is in -updates now
<seb128> asac didn't push to bzr, I did copy the patch but forgot to bzr add and bzr-buildpackage ignored it
<pitti> seb128: ah, good catch
<pitti> seb128: please upload, I'll process ASAP
<seb128> pitti: it's already uploaded
<seb128> vuntz: is there a way to lock menu editing in GNOME?
<slomo> seb128: gst currently FTBFS in ubuntu because linux-libc-dev is broken btw
<seb128> slomo: right everything ftbfs I upload anyway that will be retried when the issue is resolved
<slomo> ok :)
<jbailey> seb128, Oy, seb! =)
<jbailey> Wie Gehtz?
<seb128> hello jbailey!
<seb128> wrong language but gut, danke ;-)
<jbailey> seb128, Keeping busy? =)
<jbailey> You live *near* Germany.
<seb128> jbailey: as always ;-)
<jbailey> Got a sec for an Ubuntu-related question?
<seb128> sure
<pitti> hey jbailey, long time no see! how are you?
<jbailey> The Chromium-Linux folks pinged me yesterday to ask me about sane ways of doing auto-update in Ubuntu.
<jbailey> pitti, I'm doing well!  I don't know if you followed any of the adventures over the last year, but it's nice to be back home and healthy. =)
<pitti> jbailey: that's indeed why I asked; I followed your blog
<seb128> yeah, me too
<pitti> must have been a hell of a ride
<jbailey> seb128, apt is a reasonable solution, and the security update manager has it almost right.
<jbailey> pitti, Yeah, I'm totally up and around.  I'm able to lift 12kg (the weight of my son).
<seb128> jbailey: "auto-update" ... we don't do that ;-)
<jbailey> I'm employed, I'm back in my home.  It's all good.
<seb128> jbailey: we have maintainers and we do manual updates
<jbailey> Well, I'm not thinking of the package.
<pitti> jbailey: \o/
<jbailey> That we can handle with an apt repo and us uploading.
<jbailey> The security updater apparently has an option to say "do these security updates automatically"
<jbailey> which looks like it just run apt-get upgrade.
<jbailey> But the option is hard to find.  So we're wondering if we can send along a patch to make a check box to set that on the first screen where you say "yes, I want to do update" and type in your password.
<seb128> ah right, you want to do upgrades in the background in a transparent way
<jbailey> Right.
<jbailey> Browser security being what it is, and more and more things relying on it (Or hey, so we hope. *g*)
<seb128> better to talk to mvo when he's around (he should be around but he has internet issues right now)
<jbailey> We really really want to make sure that a user is doing the right thing.
<seb128> he's the package manager guy ;-)
<jbailey> Ah cool.  I didn't see him online and haven't talked to him for a bit so wasn't sure if he was still around.
<seb128> he's still around, but disconnected 25 minutes ago
<seb128> and dholbach said he has dsl issues
<seb128> so let's wait for him to be back
<jbailey> Cool.  I can hang out for him.
<jbailey> I'm not seeing star trek for another 3 hours. =)
<seb128> ;-)
<jbailey> seb128, pitti: You guys are well?
<jbailey> I was sad not to catch you guys in Mountain View last year.
<jbailey> Our move got delayed by a month, so I couldn't make it back that quickly.
<pitti> jbailey: I'm great, thanks! desktop team is still rocking
<pitti> jbailey: Canonical underwent quite some changes since you left, we keep growing and restructuring
<seb128> would have been nice to see you again, maybe at one of the next UDSes ;-)
<pitti> jbailey: enjoy Star Trek tonight then!
<jbailey> pitti, Nice.  I hear about them from jkakar sometimes and from the locals in the MontrÃ©al office.
<pitti> I don't have high expectations for the movie, but of course I'm going to see it anyway :)
<jbailey> seb128, Yup, I hope so.  If you guys follow your tradition of east-coast/west-coast in the US, then I should be able to make the fall one.
<jbailey> Or hey, talk them into having it in MontrÃ©al to celebrate the new office.
<seb128> that would be an idea indeed ;-)
<seb128> I've never been to any montrÃ©al canonical office yet
<awe> +1 for Montreal!
<awe> ;)
<pitti> hey awe, good morning; how is it goign?
<awe> pretty good.  I'm about to head into the office to finish packing ( construction next week )
<pitti> awe: you'll be working from home next week then?
<awe> yup
<awe> and mostly from home during the karmic cycle.  ;)
<awe> anyways, i need to run before i get another parking ticket.  i'll touch base when i get to the office
<calc> pitti: followed up to your comments on bug 373460
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 373460 in pentaho-reporting-flow-engine-openoffice.org "OOo 3.1.0 Build-Depends: move from universe to main" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/373460
 * pitti crawls into a hole to catch up with performance reviews and allhands presentations
<pitti> calc: thanks, will read soon
<calc> ok, ttyl
<artir> where are the canonical's offices? montreal, london and?
<calc> ... a few others :)
<seb128> bah, bzr-buildpackage download new tarballs twice
<james_w> seb128: logs or it didn't happen!
<seb128> james_w: mkdir dir; cd dir; bzr get lp:~robert-ancell/gnome-games/ubuntu; cd ubuntu; bzr-buildpackage
<seb128> james_w: it starts doing a
<seb128> wget -nv -T10 -t3 -O ../tarballs/gnome-games_2.27.1.orig.tar.gz http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/gnome-games/2.27/gnome-games-2.27.1.tar.gz
<seb128> ...
<seb128> get-orig-source did not create gnome-games_2.27.1.orig.tar.gz
<seb128> Using uscan to look for the upstream tarball.
<seb128>  
<seb128> I'm wondering if that's because I've no "tarballs" directory
<james_w> it's because the get-orig-source rule doesn't comply with policy
<seb128> but it finds the tarball
<seb128> download it
<seb128> and start again, that doesn't really make sense to me
<james_w> bzr doesn't parse the makefile, interpret it, and work out where the tarball ends up
<james_w> it relies on get-orig-source being policy compliant
<seb128> which means?
<seb128> I don't know what get-orig-source is and what it does
<james_w> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-source.html#s-debianrules
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> for the record that's a standard GNOME package using cdbs
<james_w> get-orig-source (optional): This target fetches the most recent version of the original source package [...] and leaves it in the current directory
<seb128> that page is not really useful, I guessed it was a tarball download target ;-)
<james_w> I really don't like the target
<seb128> ok, worded different
<james_w> but some people rely on it, and not having it run at that point didn't work for pitti for instance
<seb128> what do I need to change in the package to make it work with bzr-buildpackage?
<james_w> fix /usr/share/gnome-pkg-tools/1/rules/gnome-get-source.mk by the look of it
<james_w> or set DEB_TARBALL_DOWNLOAD_DIR = .
<james_w> to override it
<seb128> ok, the issue is the tarball against current directory thing?
<seb128> you couldn't special case bzr-buildpackage to look in tarballs too? ;-)
<james_w> not really
<james_w> well, actually I might be able to
<james_w> it's kind of stupid though
<seb128> ok
<seb128> I can argue with the debian guys for the tarballs directory
<seb128> but that's how their svn is layouted
<james_w> yeah
<james_w> it kind of makes sense, but it's also kind of silly
<james_w> I can file a bug if you like
<seb128> please do
<james_w> just checking it's not an Ubuntu change :-)
<seb128> james_w: no, we only change a recommends to suggests there
<seb128> otherwise gnome-pkg-tools is in sync
<james_w> sent
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> I guess I will use "DEB_TARBALL_DOWNLOAD_DIR = ." as a workaround for now
<pitti> james_w: if it breaks anything, revert the change
<pitti> james_w: it was really just a suggestion back then, and it's not a major inconvenience to call it manually
<james_w> pitti: it still worked, it just caused an extra download
<calc> if a users system is set to 96dpi under font section shouldn't xdpyinfo | grep resolution also show 96 dpi there?
<pitti> calc: didn't we reintroduce the hardcoded 96 dpi default late in jaunty?
<pitti> because the dynamic detection didn't work sufficiently yet?
<calc> yea
<calc> i have a case of a user running jaunty (final afaict) which it shows 96dpi in the font config area but doesn't in xdpyinfo
<pitti> well, that would be because of that hardcoded default, no?
<calc> i thought hardcoded default made the xserver think it is 96 dpi also?
<pitti> no, just gnome
<calc> hmm i thought prior to jaunty xdpyinfo reported 96 dpi as well
<mclasen> calc: check xprop -root | grep dpi
<mclasen> so many places to report different dpi values...
 * calc grabs a intrepid disk to boot to see what it says
<calc> hmm yea it always worked that way
<calc> in intrepid xorg didn't seem to even know to calculate DPI right even given the correct screen size
<calc> it claimed my screen was 100dpi x 120dpi
<calc> jaunty gets it right though at 125 dpi
<dholbach> buenos dias :)
<seb128> guten tag dholbach
<dholbach> :-)
 * dholbach hugs y'all
 * seb128 hugs dholbach
<seb128> nice to see you around ;-)
<dholbach> how has the desktop contributor situation been lately?
<dholbach> seb128: ^
<seb128> oh pretty good
<seb128> there is some turn-over
<seb128> the french mafia seems to relax a bit after the jaunty rush ;-)
<seb128> (didrocks and huats)
<seb128> but we have new people rocking too ;-)
<dholbach> awesome
<seb128> Ampelbein and chrisccoulson for example ;-)
<dholbach> when is chrisccoulson going to apply for MOTU?
<seb128> dholbach: funny I was just typing a "is chrisccoulson a MOTU btw"
<dholbach> Ampelbein, chrisccoulson: great to have you guys!
<seb128> chrisccoulson: you should reapply apply ;-)
<huats> hello guys !
<dholbach> hiya huats!
<seb128> Oh, a french slacker ;-)
<huats> seb128: and dholbach it is a pleasure :)
<seb128> hey huats
<huats> seb128:  ;)
<dholbach> how's France?
<huats> dholbach: always NIC
<huats> E
<huats> :)
<dholbach> great :)
<seb128> dholbach: celebrating the end of the second war today ;-)
<huats> how are you dholbach ?
<dholbach> seb128: there's a few demonstrations and stuff going on over here too - I saw some posters
<dholbach> huats: very good - ready for the WE :)
<jbailey> dholbach, Protesting the end of the war?
<huats> dholbach: yeah !
<seb128> dholbach: here it's a national holiday
<dholbach> jbailey: the folks who want to do demonstrations pick a random day with some historical importance and demonstrate whatever their favourite topic is
<dholbach> jbailey: nice to see you around - how are you doing?
<jbailey> dholbach, I have a friend who used to call those "rent-a-protester"s
<jbailey> I'm doing well.  Keeping busy with work, toddler, wife and settling in. =)
<jbailey> You?
<dholbach> I'm good - very very ready for WE though :)
<jbailey> Heh
<jbailey> Star trek time.  Have to catch mvo later.
<didrocks> dholbach: seb128 : check my merges and you will see if I really relax myself :)
<dholbach> didrocks: not today, I'm going out for dinner in a sec :)
<seb128> didrocks: I've been polling on the list waiting on those gnome-python-* updates
<seb128> did I miss those?
<seb128> didrocks: if you are busy with other things let me know so I stop blocking on you for that
<didrocks> seb128: I still have some merges to do, but I think that there is already 5-6 (mostly in universe), ready now :)
<seb128> ah ok
<didrocks> seb128: no, my plan is to finish my pending merge for Monday
<seb128> alright
<didrocks> seb128: so, be ready to have some sponsoring work then ^^
<seb128> we really need a better way to track who is doing what ;-)
<seb128> I want those gnome-python-* early because of the re-split
<seb128> we will need to transition all the rdepends
<didrocks> seb128: ok. It will be ready on Monday and we will achieve the re-split :)
<didrocks> and +1 for tracking
<didrocks> (pitti sponsored vte this morning, FYI)
<seb128> I've noticed
<seb128> I was really surprised because I though you claimed only the gnome-python-*
<didrocks> no, I claimed gnome-python* and keepalived, tracker
<didrocks> basically, those where I was the last uploaders
<didrocks> vte was in the list too :)
<didrocks> uploader*
<didrocks> time to have my dinner. Have a good evening!
<seb128> didrocks: ok good, you too!
<pitti> have a nice weekend everyone!
<huats> pitti: you too!
<groverblue> Looking at the Hardware Driver panel and "ATI/AMD proprietary FGLRX graphics driver" is listed, but gray-ed out as "A different version of this driver is in use."  dmesg lists "module loaded - fglrx 8.60.40 [Mar 14 2009] with 1 minors"  Isn't that the same driver?  running Ubuntu 9.04
<peterjk> hello
<artir> hi
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-05-09
<constant__> hi all. can anybody tell me where displayconfig-gtk gets its' list of monitors from?
<didrocks> constant__: Hi. I think that you'll get more answers on #gnome in irc.gnome.org
<constant__> thnx didrocks!
<didrocks> y/w ;)
<constant__> is Bryce online or does it just appear that way..?
<Nafallo> anyone noticed xorg acting up?
<Nafallo> my alt acts as compose or something, and my right mouse button does not work.
<Nafallo> no idea what's gone wrong, but I want it reverted before I go insane!
<Nafallo> ehrm. make that MORE insane
<Nafallo> so yeah. that was some random terminal starting instead of terminator.
<Nafallo> likely a compiz bug I've assigned to mvo.
<Nafallo> so ehrm... please do not reset compiz to use 'xterm' as my terminal application (whatever did that)
<mpontillo> YokoZar: re: bug 371975, were you working to get that fix in upstream? I was looking at it to try to get the hang of the bzr workflow. I made the change here that was suggested to make it consistent with Evolution: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mpontillo/nautilus/ubuntu/revision/11?remember=8&compare_revid=8
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 371975 in nautilus "Places->Connect to Server->SSH should be renamed SFTP" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/371975
<mpontillo> ah, nevermind. just saw seb128's comment on that bug. which is why I asked; I agree that the best place to change it is upstream, and not in Ubuntu
<mpontillo> by the way, I like the direction that bzr takes packaging. I felt less like I'm walking on eggshells, when compared to juggling patches by hand
<YokoZar> mpontillo: Thanks for the patch!
<mpontillo> np. odd; gnome's bugzilla didn't like the patch from quilt. http://bugzilla.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=134325&action=edit shows the filename but "View Attachment As Diff" shows "file_not_specified_in_diff"
<hggdh> mpontillo, works for me
<mpontillo> hggdh: really? I meant this link: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=134325&action=diff - the text in the gray background after "(-)"
<hggdh> mpontillo, darn!
<hggdh> I stand corrected
<hggdh> weird
<hggdh> mpontillo, take out the "a/"
<hggdh> or "b/"
<hggdh> you are one directory above
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-05-10
<hggdh> OTH, it looks more like a bug in b.g.o, since the diff still works
<dobey> it's a bugzilla issue with git-generated diffs i think
<mpontillo> yeah - this patch was generated by quilt, guess it was expecting a -p0 patch and got a -p1 then? interesting.
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-05-10
 * kenvandine[jfk] waves
<baptistemm> hello
<mpt> rickspencer3, seb128: What do you think of having a session at UDS about turning GTK accessibility on by default? It's something we wanted for 9.10 but didn't have time, and it got put off for 10.04 because it was an LTS.
<seb128> mpt, we can have it if you think that would be useful, I've the feeling it's rather something we should turn on early and get feedback on
<seb128> ie there is not a lot to discuss, it will get down to "it has bugs"
<seb128> mpt, in fact that's not true, there is https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-gnome3-accessibility-readiness
<seb128> mpt, we can discuss it during that session
<seb128> accessibility is changing for GNOME3
<mpt> ok, I didn't know that
<Nafai> didrocks: I probably should be at this session, right? https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-meta-key
<didrocks> Nafai: right, I'll be there, you should join
<Nafai> ok
<Nafai> hmmm
<LaserJock> didrocks: ping
<didrocks> LaserJock: hey, nice to see you ;)
<didrocks> LaserJock: it was a long time!
<LaserJock> didrocks: yeah, I've been quite busy with work
<didrocks> LaserJock: heh, hopefully summer will be a better time :)
 * kenvandine_ waves
<Nafai> Hey
<Nafai> where are you?
<shuthdar> hi all
<shuthdar> maybe there's someone who may help me with indicator applet & messaging menu stuff?
<liquidmeson> well then, spit it out?
<shuthdar> i'm trying to get evolution completely replaced with thunderbird in the applet, to have not just a button to open it, but with additional actions like compose, contacts etc. as well
<shuthdar> i added the following into thunderbird.desktop:
<shuthdar> X-Ayatana-Desktop-Shortcuts=Compose;Contacts;News
<shuthdar> [Compose Shortcut Group]
<shuthdar> Name=New Message
<shuthdar> Exec=thunderbird -compose
<shuthdar> OnlyShowIn=Messaging Menu
<shuthdar> [Contacts Shortcut Group]
<shuthdar> Name=Contacts
<shuthdar> Exec=thunderbird -addressbook
<shuthdar> OnlyShowIn=Messaging Menu
<shuthdar> [News Shortcut Group]
<shuthdar> Name=Read news
<shuthdar> Exec=thunderbird -news
<shuthdar> OnlyShowIn=Messaging Menu
<liquidmeson> you would be following http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/05/how-to-add-thunderbird-to-messaging.html ?
<liquidmeson> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/383 bottom left diamond icon? anyone?
<shuthdar> followed that link, contents in .desktop look same as i got myself, but i still can see only thunderbird launcher
<liquidmeson> I would either clear out your settings, update your system and retry; or try version #2
<liquidmeson> shuthdar, scratch that
<Sarvatt> if anyone is interested in a *HUGE* speedup of xchat's scrollback loading - http://sarvatt.com/downloads/patches/xchat_2.8.6-4ubuntu6.debdiff
<Sarvatt> loading 32 channels worth on startup is down to 4 seconds instead of close to a minute of 100% cpu usage on this slow atom CPU
<shuthdar> after clear settings/update/retry - no effect, will try version #2 now
<liquidmeson> shuthdar, http://launchpadlibrarian.net/39060903/libnotify-mozilla.xpi add that to thunderbird
<Sarvatt> of course it has dependency problems when building on maverick right now since things are getting a gconf2 (>= 2.28.1-2) dependency from something which is also affecting tomboy and update-notifier in maverick
<liquidmeson> shuthdar, i was reading through the comments on omg, and some guy had the same problem as you "The sub-options were displayed after I had updated the ~/.cache/indicators/messages/seen-db.keyfile file.  Replacing the "evolution" text with "thunderbird""
<shuthdar> hm.. i'll try that
<liquidmeson> shuthdar, this might also work https://launchpad.net/libnotify-mozilla/
<liquidmeson> shuthdar, wouldn't know for sure tho cus i just use the gmail indicator :p
<shuthdar> liquidmeson, thanks for that, I already installed libnotify-mozilla from bzr.. it added new message alerts, but still no additional entries
<shuthdar> liquidmeson, i could use that too, but it's just point of interest to get thunderbird where evolution were :)
<shuthdar> liquidmeson, well, after updating seen-db.keyfile everything turned ok. thanks for ur help :)
<liquidmeson> cool, cool
<shuthdar> i just wonder if it's documented somewhere?
<ajmitch> lool: you don't mind if I grab the libsdl1.2 merge? I need to do it to get a SRU fix in for lucid :)
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-05-11
<lool> ajmitch: Please do
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey
<seb128> chrisccoulson, mpt was wondering if you uploaded the new user account dialog in a ppa or somewhere for testing
<chrisccoulson> hey seb128 - it's not in a PPA just yet as i've not packaged it (i just built it locally)
<seb128> mpt, ^
<seb128> mpt, I guess you can have a look on chrisccoulson's laptop at some point this week if you can't join the session
<mpt> ok
<mpt> thanks seb128
<LaserJock> so is Unity all written in Vala?
<pitti> didrocks: can you take the maximus merge? It looks straightforward, but I rather get rid of some package ownership now
<pitti> didrocks: (of course not "do it now", just in general)
<ragazzo> c'e qualche italiano che mi puÃ² aiutare a configurare ubuntu?
<didrocks> pitti: I see no upstream merge proposal and don't really know how to get those for the packages, can you guide me, please?
<didrocks> LaserJock: some part is in vala, others in plain C
<pitti> didrocks: https://merges.ubuntu.com/m/maximus/
<pitti> didrocks: you didn't do merges before?
<didrocks> pitti: oh "merge"
<didrocks> pitti: I was thinking "merge request"
<pitti> didrocks: ah, yes; this kind of merge
<pitti> sorry :)
<didrocks> pitti: no pb, got it now ;)
<didrocks> sure, I'll
<malev_> when is the meeting?
<LaserJock> anybody know where indicator-applet keeps its log?
<jpds> LaserJock: ~/.cache/indicator-applet.log
<LaserJock> hmm
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-05-12
<nbdarvin> hello
<nbdarvin> i looking for some work for gtk-python developer )
<pitti> Good morning
<ArneGoetje> seb128: Hi! Can you please schedule https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-native-xpi-lp-export and https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-touch-onscreen-keyboard for UDS? Thanks.
<seb128> ArneGoetje, ok
<ArneGoetje> seb128: whom should I subscribe to the touch-onscreen-keyboard session?
<seb128> ArneGoetje, TheMuso
<seb128> oh, touch
<seb128> hum
<seb128> bryceh or,and RAOF I guess
<ArneGoetje> seb128: ok, thanks
<RAOF> seb128: Yeah, subscribe me if you like.
<seb128> thanks
<ArneGoetje> seb128, RAOF: done, thanks
<seb128> ArneGoetje, thank you
<seb128> kenvandine_, there?
<cassidy> kenvandine_, ping
<seb128> didrocks, pitti, others: I put a desktop team workflow rountable for next slot if somebody wants to join
<seb128> didrocks, pitti, others: if you cross somebody who would be interested let them know in case they don't refresh schedule
<seb128> it's to discuss things like how we list tasks, vcs usage, configure update at build time, etc
<didrocks> seb128: ok, will join, should be great. Thankzs :)
<seb128> didrocks, thanks
<chrisccoulson> RAOF, on the topic of what i mentioned in the auditorium about my screen appearing to change size randomly - i see these lines in Xorg.0.log when it happens: http://paste.ubuntu.com/432235/
<chrisccoulson> i don't know if that says anything about the type of event which triggers it
<chrisccoulson> (my screen is 1440x900 btw)
<pedro_> didrocks, you there?
<pedro_> didrocks, FYI: we have another regression caused by the evince proposed package, bug 578996
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 578996 in evince "cannot open a document with hash tag in the filename" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/578996
<pedro_> didrocks, the fix for that bug is at http://git.gnome.org/browse/evince/commit/?id=182e12aed96d302f78f52c16b52b8f3c2784d415
<RAOF> chrisccoulson: Thanks.  Hurray for odd X behaviour!
<chrisccoulson> heh :)
<LaserJock> didrocks: ping
<TheMuso> seb128: Were you after me?
<seb128> TheMuso, not sure now, was probably about the onscreen touch keyboard spec, we subscribed you
<seb128> TheMuso, feel free to go or not as you want
<TheMuso> seb128: yeah I saw that. I'll have to check the schedule to see when it is.
<TheMuso> seb128: BTW I am taking a conservative approach with a11y, i.e sticking with the at-spi we have now, unless bonobo is being removed for maverick, in which case I'll be worried. :)
<seb128> TheMuso, ok good, it solves your gnome-panel similar issue
<seb128> your -> our
<TheMuso> seb128: ah ok.
<rickspencer3> Hi
<seb128> hey rickspencer3
<TheMuso> seb128: As to wether I put at-spi2 in universe or a PPA, I am not yet sure.
<rickspencer3> hi seb128
<TheMuso> But I would like users to be able to test it.
<seb128> TheMuso, I've no strong opinion, whatever makes easier to get contributors and testers I guess
<TheMuso> seb128: Yeah, my thoughts as well. Probably a PPA at this point, so post maverick, we can still test, and we can offer lucid packages also.
<seb128> ok
 * TheMuso waves to rickspencer3.
<didrocks> pedro_: you insanely rock! I'll patch that ASAP (tomorrow I guess), thanks for the ping
<pedro_> didrocks, awesome! merci!
<bochecha> hi
<bochecha> I'm trying to build Unity, is it the right channel to ask for help?
<kklimonda> bochecha: what problem do you have?
<bochecha> I'm trying to build wncksync, and I get the following bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/wncksync/+bug/529682
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 529682 in wncksync "wncksync not building on mandriva" [Undecided,Invalid]
<bochecha> a comment mentions patches for glib and gio in trunk, but I can only find patches for gio and gnome-desktop there
<bochecha> anyway, I tried building gnome-desktop with the patch, and I get: http://fpaste.org/z4gj/
<bochecha> so I guess this patched gnome-desktop needs wncksync?
<bochecha> it's kinda hard to figure out in which order to build those packages, any hint on that would be greatly appreciated :)
<kklimonda> bochecha: do you have glib 2.24?
<bochecha> kklimonda, yes
<bochecha> I'm not running Ubuntu, though (not sure if that matters, maybe in case the glib shipped in Ubuntu is different from upstream)
<kklimonda> bochecha: indeed, it's this patch: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=606960
<ubottu> Gnome bug 606960 in gio "Patch to add new extension point in GIO for use with multiple applications." [Enhancement,Unconfirmed]
<bochecha> kklimonda, yeah, that's the one in the wncksync trunk
<bochecha> so glib doesn't need patching then, only gio?
<kklimonda> gio is part of glib
<bochecha> oh... sorry then ^^'
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-05-13
<robert_ancell> seb128, do you know where the photo experience blueprint is?  what was that session called?
<seb128> robert_ancell, desktop-maverick-photo-experience
<robert_ancell> seb128, yeah, doesn't exist
<seb128> robert_ancell, https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-simple-image-management
<seb128> robert_ancell, desktop-maverick-photo-experience on gobby
<robert_ancell> seb128, it's desktop-maverick-simple-image-management
<seb128> robert_ancell, what I said before?
<robert_ancell> oh, missed that one
<robert_ancell> :)
<desrt> seb128: in session?
<seb128> desrt, yes, you?
<desrt> hackingbof :)
<seb128> nice
<desrt> ...not much of a bof, to be honest
<desrt> anyway.  was wondering: are you going to do backported glib releases to lucid?
<desrt> in some PPA or something
<seb128> I didn't plan to no but if that's useful we could discuss it
<desrt> ok.  i'll see you some time if you're free
<chrisccoulson> bryceh - i've been looking at bug 546578 this morning, and i think i know what happens on the gnome-screensaver side now
<chrisccoulson> the VT switching is happening before the fade has completed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 546578 in xserver-xorg-driver-ati "[RS480] black screen after a few user switches" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/546578
<chrisccoulson> and gnome-screensaver continues with the SetCrtcGamma calls, which complete successfully but have no effect on the gamma on the inactive VT
<chrisccoulson> so,
<chrisccoulson> we need some way for gnome-screensaver to signal that it has finished fading :)
<chrisccoulson> or revert the fading mechanism to what we had in karmic, which didn't seem to have this problem
<chrisccoulson> ^^pitti - what do you think is more appropriate for a SRU? :)
<pitti> Nafai: alias kvmtest='kvm -m 768 -drive if=virtio,index=0,boot=on,file=$HOME/download/kvm-images/test.img'
<Nafai> pitti: thanks muchly
<pitti> chrisccoulson: ah, wb
<chrisccoulson> hey pitti, how are you today?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I just responded/subscribed to bug 546578
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 546578 in xserver-xorg-driver-ati "[RS480] black screen after a few user switches" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/546578
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I'm great, thanks!
<chrisccoulson> thanks
<chrisccoulson> pitti - i've not seen the issue with suspend, but on user switching
<chrisccoulson> i'm not sure if it's the same issue on sleep
<pitti> chrisccoulson: ah, sorry; but same reasoning with waiting until VT change, probably?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: or just disable the fading :)
<chrisccoulson> yeah, possibly
<chrisccoulson> pitti - lucid uses a new mechanism for fading (xrandr)
<pitti> ah, and karmic just repainted the screen?
<chrisccoulson> i was just wondering if we could revert back to the old method (which is still used as a fallback for devices which don't support xrandr)
<pitti> i. e. it didn't actually finish until the vt change?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: it seems reasonable, too
<chrisccoulson> pitti - i think the old fading method still worked on the inactive VT, but i'd need to verify that just to make sure
 * pitti -> back to session
<chrisccoulson> but it would be an easy change to revert the fading mechanism to what was used before
<chrisccoulson> thanks :)
<bryceh> chrisccoulson, cool, we should get together with RAOF to discuss this
<chrisccoulson> bryceh - yeah, can do. i will try and work out whether the old xf86vidmode gamma fade had this issue, because we only noticed it when gnome-screensaver moved to xrandr fade
<chrisccoulson> so hopefully reverting that will just fix it for now :)
<bryceh> yeah
<bryceh> sounds sane for an sru, hopefully whatever the xrandr issue can be solved for MM
<bryceh> RAOF and I are in the kernel version session
<huats> morning !
<chrisccoulson> pitti - i can recreate the ATA errors every time i connect the power cord
<chrisccoulson> and i still get them without acpi-support
<pitti> chrisccoulson: blergh
<pitti> chrisccoulson: can you rename /lib/udev/rules.d/85-hdparm.rules to .disabled and check again?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: or try to chmod 0 /usr/sbin/pm-powersave
<chrisccoulson> it seems to be pm-powersave which does itr
<chrisccoulson> pitti - it is specifically /usr/lib/pm-utils/power.d/powersave-policy-sata-link-power which triggers my ATA errors
<chrisccoulson> which has your name in it ;)
<crimsun> chrisccoulson: that begins to sound like a hw/linux issue, not a pm-utils or pm-utils-powersave-policy thing
<chrisccoulson> crimsun - yeah, possibly
<crimsun> i.e., we probably need to quirk your hw
<chrisccoulson> but at least i have a trigger now :)
<chrisccoulson> `echo "max_performance" | sudo tee /sys/class/scsi_host/host1/link_power_management_policy` is what is triggering it
<chrisccoulson> so, yeah, sounds very much like a kernel issue
<cjohnston> kenvandine: ping
<kenvandine> hey cjohnston
<cjohnston> Hey.. Can we meet?
<kenvandine> sure, got a bug? :)
<cjohnston> yes
<kenvandine> ok, where are you?
<cjohnston> palissandre
<kenvandine> ok, session almost done here
<kenvandine> want to go meet by the break area in ~10m?
<cjohnston> okie.. thanks
<kenvandine> cool
<cjohnston> downstairs?
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> actually i am heading down there now
<kenvandine> so whenever
<cjohnston> ok
<sash_> hello everyone. lool from #ubuntu-mobile told me that mterry or didrocks from here could help me.
<sash_> well, i am trying to package netbook-launcher in fedora, some libraries, too. because of a change in ld's behaviour (read http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/ChangeInImplicitDSOLinking and http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/UnderstandingDSOLinkChange if interested), it is not linkable by using default ./configure && make
<sash_> i did ./configure && make LDFLAGS="--libs /lib/libm.so.6 /usr/lib/libXau.so.6" or change this is in my .spec-file
<sash_> that works, but should be in the configure-script imho, because also without the new behaviour, it is not wrong ;)
<bochecha> sash_, you're building netbook launcher for Fedora? Awesome! I'm building Unity for Fedora, we could probably use each other's help :)
<sash_> bochecha: yes, i try. also have to package some libs.
<bochecha> which ones?
<bochecha> here's what I'm building: https://edge.launchpad.net/~canonical-dx-team/+archive/une/+packages
<bochecha> is there any intersection with what you're doing?
<LaserJock> I don't think Unity uses much from the older UNE interface (what the heck do we name that?)
<didrocks> sash_: bochecha: can see next week, after UDS? I'll try to get some free time for you guys ;)
<sash_> bochecha: libclutk, libclutk-dev, liblauncher, liblauncher-dev, libnetbook-launcher as i see
<bochecha> didrocks, sure, I'm getting somewhere anyway ;)
<sash_> didrocks: of course ;)
<didrocks> great :)
<LaserJock> sash_: are you going to be interested in the applets (go-home and window-picker) too?
<sash_> yes
<sash_> i want to have the whole netbook-remix in fedora
<sash_> bochecha: its no official project yet. need to make the accounts. didnt package anything yet
<LaserJock> sash_: good luck, it would be cool to see on Fedora
<sash_> to be able to build netbook-launcher i converted the libs with alien, because i was lazy and just wanted to build netbook-launcher and it does build. i also packaged it in an rpm, but its not really installable yet ;)
<bochecha> sash_, some of the bits of the old UNE are already in Fedora btw, like maximus or the window-picker applet
<sash_> yes, i saw that
<bochecha> sash_, https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=484423
<ubottu> bugzilla.redhat.com bug 484423 in Package Review "Review Request: netbook-launcher - A clutter-based desktop launcher" [Medium,Assigned]
<bochecha> netbook-launcher was already submitted, it's being reviewed
<sash_> bochecha: seen, how old ;)
<bochecha> yeah, but at least you don't have to start everything from scratch
<sash_> bochecha: i also stay in contact to cwickert, who reviewed it, and he will review mine, too. and i have to start from scratch. 1st point is ld in f13, second the netbook-launcher-version
<sash_> ok, i used the specfile...
<bochecha> anyone would have a minute to review this bug? https://bugs.launchpad.net/liblauncher/+bug/580194
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 580194 in liblauncher "liblauncher doesn't build on Fedora 13 (implicit DSO linking)" [Undecided,New]
<bochecha> patch is attached
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-05-14
<huats> morning
<didrocks> pitti: if you're interested on the algorithm to detect installed applications and codecs which are not default: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneConf#passively detect user selected packages (Alternative)
<RAOF> chrisccoulson: Your ATA error bug is probably bug #539467 - have you seen it?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 539467 in linux "Frequent ATA errors and disk corruption" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/539467
 * RAOF looks at who actually reported that bug.  Whoops!
<cjohnston> kenvandine: it just started updating
<Nafai> kenvandine: So, can you point me to that Evolution PPA you are using?
<seb128> desrt, pitti: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=581434#25
<ubottu> Debian bug 581434 in base-files "The default umask in Debian should be changed to '0002' to be fully compliant with user private groups" [Normal,Fixed]
<pitti> hah
<pitti> hm, I thought we wanted to remove this altogether and use PAM?
<seb128> just pointing it
<pitti> but at least it's good to know that Debian behaves the same now
<pitti> merci!
<seb128> de rien:
<seb128> ;-)
<kenvandine> cjohnston, can you test something for me?
<kenvandine> bzr branch lp:~ken-vandine/gwibber/lp_580067
<kenvandine> cd lp_580067
<kenvandine> killall gwibber gwibber-service
<kenvandine> ./bin/gwibber-service -d -o
<kenvandine> then start the client
<kenvandine> cjohnston, then after running for a few minutes, send me the log file
<kenvandine> ~/.cache/gwibber/gwibber.log
<cjohnston> kenvandine: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/gwibber/+bug/580067
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 580067 in gwibber "twitter fails to download messages, sometimes" [Undecided,New]
<kenvandine> cjohnston, thx
<cjohnston> let me know if that helps you
<kenvandine> cjohnston, got a minute to let me play with your laptop?
<kenvandine> cjohnston, when you get a chance, please "bzr pull" in that branch and try again
<kenvandine> and post the log, thx
<cjohnston> kenvandine: just pulled it
<LaserJock> is there a place to file bugs on Unity?
<kklimonda> LaserJock: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/unity ?
<cjohnston> kenvandine: bug 580067
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 580067 in gwibber "twitter fails to download messages, sometimes" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/580067
<LaserJock> kklimonda: interesting, so the whole thing is a single LP project rather than separate ones for each component?
<bochecha> it seems like there hadn't been any release of dbusmodel yet, is one planned in the sort term? Alternatively, what revision would you advise me to use? (I'm building the Unity stack for Fedora 13)
<onkara> hi Guys ...  i just installed Lucid Lynx ... and I am having trouble mounting NFS shares using autofs
<onkara> could anyone please confirm if this is a known issue ?
<onkara> could anyone confirm if autofs in LucidLynx is broken ??
<joaopinto> onkara, the support channel is #ubuntu
<bochecha> I'm trying to make a dist of dbusmodel from the bzr trunk, but it fails: http://fpaste.org/E1mI/
<bochecha> any idea what I should do ?
<bochecha> just FYI, there is a typo in the debian/control file for dbusmodel: "mutiple" instead of "multiple"
<bochecha> not sure it's worth opening a bug report, so I thought I'd just mention it here
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-05-15
<SmSpillaz> @any Amaranth
<Sarvatt> dh_gconf is bringing in an unfulfillable gconf2 dep for maverick right now - gconf2 (>= 2.28.1-2)
<kklimonda> so my gwibber is using almost 850MB of memory.. nice
<kklimonda> kenvandine_: ^ :)
 * Helena79 Discounts!! Our Special Limited Time Offers Up To May,22!!!New BranD!! Notebooks,Plasma and LCD TV's.Buy your electronic needs at our unique prices. Laptop Sony VAIOÂ® VGN-FW590FFD-575,57$!!!Apple MacBookÂ® Air MC234LL/A-695,27$!!! http://www.elplace.com/
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-05-16
<joemac> Good evening all, I am trying to connect my cell phone to my comp with little success ,
<joemac> can anyone help please?
<ehmdotmicro> can someone tell me how I can determine which version of gnome I am running (ubuntu desktop 9.10)?
<Sarvatt> hmm, someone just pointed out that if a user has save sessions enabled and upgrades from karmic to lucid where compiz.real is removed they dont get a window manager after upgrade, any way to get around that?
<lowje> Hi
<lowje> I noticed a bug on GBrainy and since "GBrainy does not use Launchpad for bug tracking" I don't know what to doâ¦
<lowje> ( https://bugs.launchpad.net/gbrainy )
<crimsun> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gbrainy/+filebug
<lowje> thanks =)
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-05-09
<OwaisL> Is Mark's keynote available as a live stream? Video?
<broder> http://uds.ubuntu.com/participate/remote/
<pitti> hyperair: just leave your question here, I'll respond async
<hyperair> pitti: er what?
<pitti> hyperair: hyperair [13:13:13] wonders if pitti is around.
<hyperair> hrmm
<hyperair> what was it again?
<hyperair> ah yes
<hyperair> samba.
<hyperair> pitti: remember the winbind bug that caused libc to segfault?
<hyperair> bug #529714
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 529714 in samba "rhythmbox crashed with SIGSEGV in _nss_wins_gethostbyname_r()" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/529714
<hyperair> pitti: ^^ that. is still waiting for sponsorship
<pitti> hyperair: at UDS right now, but I'll try to sponsor it soon
<pitti> please ask around in #u-devel as well, though
 * pitti -> offline again
<Laney> hyperair: samba? try jelmer ;)
<hyperair> Laney: ooh
<dupondje> Whats causing that latest updates changed Gnome3 again in querty only?
<shadeslayer> oh yey
<shadeslayer> anyone who maintains the ppa around?
<shadeslayer> http://paste.ubuntu.com/605286/ < broken
<dupondje> dont have this issue here
<basso> is someone from the gnome 3 ppa team? :P
<shadeslayer> basso: what happened?
<shadeslayer> dupondje: do i just need to install gnome-shell?
<shadeslayer> or do i need to install gnome-session manually as well?
<basso> gnome shell went back to ugly theme, i cant change desktop background or mouse settings
<basso> probably more strange stuff going on
<basso> my mac i starting to get warm
<basso> so the fan thingi aint working it seems
<ricotz> basso, this is know, be patient ;)
<dupondje> shadeslayer: gnome3 not installed here
<dupondje> just gnome-shell
<dupondje> should work
<dupondje> It would be cool to have azerty back :s
<shadeslayer> hmm
<ricotz> shadeslayer, the gnome3-session package is obsolete and isnt needed
<shadeslayer> ah okay
<wolfjb> hello, running gnome3 with gnome shell from gnome3-team ppa, and am getting an error that says NMApplet is not supported, possible that NetworkManager is too old. Is there a workaround for this as it seems to be what's keeping me from being able to login
<wolfjb> starting gnome-shell with gnome-shell --replace works, so maybe it is a problem with gnome-session and nm-applet?
<cousin_mario> hello
<cousin_mario> can gnome3 coexist with gnome2 on natty?
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-05-10
<cdbs> Almost everyone joining the channel right now is from Budapest
<seb128> RAOF, there?
<cdbs> Oh gawd. An IRC screen full of joins from conference/ubuntudevelopersummit/x-crappyrandomstrings hurts the eye :)
<bryceh> cdbs, good day to flip off "show connect messages" in your irc client eh?
<ricotz> rodrigo_, hi
<ricotz> rodrigo_, i have disabled the indicator patch in g-s-d with build3.1 to fix it
<seb128> ricotz, what is to fix?
<ricotz> seb128, the indicator patch causes a segfault in libxklavier
<seb128> natty ppa or oneiric?
<ricotz> probably both
<seb128> ok
<seb128> so you commented in the ppa? do you have a bug report?
<ricotz> seb128, i did an uncommented push to the ppa, and mentioned it to rodrigo
<seb128> ok, could you open a bug on launchpad with the stacktrace?
<seb128> got to go
<seb128> bbl
<ricotz> seb128, currently not at my testing mashine, but rodrigo should have it in his inbox
<ricotz> desrt, hi, do you mind a pm?
<ricotz> seb128, currently not at my testing mashine, but rodrigo should have it in his inbox
<seb128> ricotz, ok
<ricotz> seb128, a target for oneiric is the inclusion of gnome 3.2?
<seb128> we will discuss it this week but I guess so
<ricotz> ok, i am starting to test glib 2.29.x and gtk 3.1.x
<ricotz> seb128, another thing, i am not sure if you are aware of the debian policy change to include dependencies on gir packages to their corresponding dev package
<ricotz> not following it will break some direct syncs
<seb128> thanks, I've been reading about it
<seb128> but why would syncs break?
<ricotz> good
<seb128> we should just follow on it
<ricotz> because the arent including explict depends on the gir packages anymore
<seb128> it's the other way around
<seb128> they made the libdev depends on the gir
<ricotz> so they fail for the missing stuff
<seb128> which means we can drop the girs from the build-depends
<ricotz> yes
<ricotz> exactly
<ricotz> i think i wrote that
<seb128> oh ok, you mean that we will need to add depends to some of our libdev
<ricotz> yes ;)
<seb128> right, I will fix those when we cross build issues
<seb128> should be sorted after the initial merge round
<seb128> thanks for pointing it ;-)
<seb128> we also need to fix the dconf backend split depends
<seb128> this week is a bit busy with UDS but we will catch up next week
<ricotz> no problem
<ricotz> yeah the gsettings backend package needs to be pulled in
<ricotz> seb128, have fun, bye
<seb128> ricotz, thanks, see you ;-)
<TheMuso> seb128: Re the GNOME 3 session this afternoon, I initially intended to attend to confirm that we will move to at-spi2 this cycle, particularly since QT is coming along accessibility wise.
<TheMuso> seb128: But I have a conflict for another session where I am required, so will not be attending.
<TheMuso> s/for/with/
<seb128> TheMuso, ok, thanks, nice to read that we will switch to the new version, we will be able to clean old libs ;-)
<TheMuso> Yup. At-spi2 is now rather solid, performing much better. I am running it on my desktop at home with few issues these days.
<seb128> ok, great
<dupondje> Somebody has any idea btw why Gnome3 login screen is qwerty?
<jbicha> because gdm is broken? maybe?
<dupondje> well else it works
<dupondje> :)
<nivardus> is this the right channel for gnome3-team PPA discussion?
<bcurtiswx> nivardus, yes, but most of them/us are at UDS this week.
<nivardus> I noticed from the huge torrent of conference channel exits
<mpt> seiflotfy, there's a session right now on running usability sessions in Mikszath.
<basso> i like pie
<basso> :)
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-05-11
<has001> morning\
<jbicha> good morning
<has001> my ubuntu sudently decided not to login to internet
<has001> i did ping the router and its there
<has001> and eth0 is there
<has001> should i flush dns/release like windows? and if yes what is the command :P
<jbicha> has001: this channel is for Ubuntu desktop development, I think someone in #ubuntu can help you troubleshoot
<has001> ok thx
<alex3f> good morning, any kind soul to recommend me a good wysiwyg editor, python, gtk+, html?
<Dr_Heckle> alex3f, have you searched the repository?
<alex3f> no, I've searched google
<alex3f> I'm looking to integrate it into an application
<alex3f> so I was looking for a developer advice
<rickspencer3> alex3f, try Geany for python coding
<rickspencer3> for gtk+, all there is for wywig design is Glade
<alex3f> I'm using geany for some time now, it rocks
<alex3f> I'm looking for a library
<alex3f> with python bindings
<rickspencer3> alex3f, I think you want pygtk
<rickspencer3> alex3f, are you trying to write a new app in Python?
<alex3f> yes
<rickspencer3> ok, that's an easy answer :)
<alex3f> :D
<rickspencer3> apt-get install quickly
<rickspencer3> quickly tutorial ubuntu-application
<alex3f> I know about quickly, I have been following your tutorials
<rickspencer3> you can hop into #quickly if you have questions
<alex3f> ok
<tilleyrw> Help me configure my display.  I want it to work at 1280x1024 by 60Hz which it was one day ago.
<tilleyrw> In the Xubuntu display settings, "1280x1024" isn't shown now and and the frequency is stuck at 51 Hz.
<tilleyrw> I need to reset it to 60, which is not an option.  Hand editing the Xorg.conf file does not help.
<tilleyrw> Help me change my display refresh rate.
<tilleyrw> My refresh rate is stuck at 51 Hz.  To display 1280x1024, I need to use 60Hz.  It's not in the drop down.  How can I change it manually?
<xapantu> tilleyrw, support channel is at #ubuntu ;)
<basso> :3
<basso> Hello
<JackyAlcine> compiz runs into a segfault using nVidia drivers;
<JackyAlcine> on a 32-bit system; might be GLX.
<JackyAlcine> any idea on how to fix?
<JackyAlcine> I guess not.
<basso> i cant
<basso> but i can pray and hopefully someone else will save you :)
<JackyAlcine> I think that it's something with the update to Natty; like the drivers weren't carried up.
<basso> JackyAlcine: i never dare to upgrade, i always to a fresh install :3
<JackyAlcine> It's not even that; I think nVidia's just borked; I never had a real issue with an upgrade before.
<basso> JackyAlcine: tried installing from the xorg ppa thingi?
<basso> you get the newest one there
<webjadmin> basso, I'd have to 'apt-get update' and stuff; but it didn't show any upgrades.
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-05-12
<basso> webjadmin: normaly when there are no updates there are no updates :)
<basso> webjadmin: but why do you ask me this?
<webjadmin> Lol, I just added the xorg ppa.
<webjadmin> And I'm JackyAlcine;
<webjadmin> hold on.
<JackyAlcine> basso, I've added the xorg ppa; installed the packages and restarted Xorg; but to no avial
<JackyAlcine> I did find an issue, though.
<basso> JackyAlcine: was the issue driver related or compiz related?
<JackyAlcine> It's compiz-related; it's looking for libraries in an odd place.
<JackyAlcine> ~/.compiz-1/plugins
<JackyAlcine> And the folder 'plugins' didn't exist.
<Amaranth> That's not an issue
 * JackyAlcine is making the pastebin.
<JackyAlcine> http://paste.ubuntu.com/606317/
<JackyAlcine> Amaranth, why wouldn't it be if you mind me asking?
<JackyAlcine> The segfault probably is caused by it trying to call a method in the bailery library; that of which it couldn't find.
<Amaranth> It was told to load a plugin called "core", tried a few places, couldn't find it. No big deal, it just moves on.
<Amaranth> For the rest of the plugins it always checks ~/.compiz-1/plugins first in case you have a user copy you want to override the system one
<Amaranth> Doesn't find them there, moves on to /usr/lib/compiz/
<JackyAlcine> Ah, hence the warning that the plugin's already active?
<Amaranth> I would recommend cleaning out your compiz settings though, just to see if that fixes the issue
<Amaranth> But first dump them so we can see them if that fixes it
<JackyAlcine> Alright.
<Amaranth> It's rather odd that it segfaults after loading dbus...
<Amaranth> Or rather while loading dbus
<Amaranth> hmm, actually it seems your configuration is rather screwed
<Amaranth> You're using the ini backend instead of gconf
<Amaranth> make a copy of your ~/.compiz-1 and ~/.config/compiz-1 (if they exist) then remove them
<JackyAlcine> Ah. okay.
<JackyAlcine> I was going to show you the configuration now actually.
<JackyAlcine> http://paste.ubuntu.com/606322/
<JackyAlcine> Well, lol, I accidentally deleted all of the configuration settings; but it's no biggie.
<Amaranth> I'm pretty sure a lot of those plugins conflict with each other
<Amaranth> but yeah, looks like it should be easy enough for you to tweak your settings back to how you like if that fixed it
<JackyAlcine> Wow, Amaranth, it worked (sorta).
<JackyAlcine> Well, there's no window manager really
<JackyAlcine> Forget it; by opening the Appearance dialog; it appeared. :)
<JackyAlcine> Thanks so much Amaranth
<Amaranth> no problem, will poke someone about the config file to see if we can figure out what blew up
<JackyAlcine> Thanks :D
<basso> my prayer worked
<basso> he got hep
<basso> help*
 * basso is badass
<basso> now to pray for someone to fix the gnome-settings-daemon
 * basso starts prayer
<basso> now sleepy
<znfrazier> anyone good with ftp servers?
<bcurtiswx> cassidy, seems libpurple has removed QQ support, will telepathy be doing anything about that?
<bcurtiswx> cassidy, http://developer.pidgin.im/ticket/13193
<cassidy> bcurtiswx, gadu gadu ?
<bcurtiswx> cassidy, i'm not very familiar with QQ myself so gadu gadu is another implementation?
<cassidy> oh no that's another protocol
<cassidy> unless someone starts a Telepathy connection manager for it, we won't be able to do much
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - have you seen andreas this morning?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, no
<bcurtiswx> cassidy, hmm.  So any future QQ bugs in empathy I get should probably be closed?
<cassidy> bcurtiswx, they should be telepathy-haze bug
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - thanks
<cassidy> and haze can't do much if libpurple doesn't support it
<bcurtiswx> cassidy, yes sorry I have a bad habit of using empathy when it's really a telepathy problem :X
<cassidy> bcurtiswx, in general, if a bug is protocol specific, there are good chances that's a TP bug
<bcurtiswx> cassidy, i know this, I just need a shock collar to help me along ;)
<bcurtiswx> cassidy, OK i'll close haze bugs with QQ and recommend someone make a telepathy QQ branch :) thx
<dpm> pitti, seb128, could we have someone from desktop on krudy (06) for the lp translation imports session?
<seb128> dpm, hum, is there any specific question for us?
<seb128> do you need someone there or replying on IRC is fine?
<pitti> dpm: on my way, seems my meeting with jasoncwarner got cancelled anyway
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<seb128> (I'm in another session)
<dpm> thanks pitti
<bcurtiswx> rodrigo_, you see the recent advertising e-mail on the gnome3-team mailing list ?
<rodrigo_> bcurtiswx, no, which one?
 * rodrigo_ looks
<bcurtiswx> rodrigo_, vanillux
<bcurtiswx> idk why but it seemed more of an attack e-mail than one asking for legitimate help
<rodrigo_> hmm
<seb128> what's wrong with it?
<seb128> it's opensource they are free to do a distro
<bcurtiswx> nothing wrong with the who new distro, just poorly written IMO
<bcurtiswx> whole*
<rodrigo_> bcurtiswx, yes, seems to be a gnome remix v2.0 :)
<rodrigo_> but nothing wrong with them doing it, if that's what they want, really
<rodrigo_> would be better if they helped us packaging gnome3
<bcurtiswx> yeah,  if they want to do it thats all great. and that too..  :)
<rodrigo_> well, it's not great, but maybe it's easier for us, than having to be discussing all day about everything :-)
 * rodrigo_ writes an answer
<cassidy> which mail is that? Are there people doing a ubuntu GNOME remix ?
<seb128> cassidy, yes
<seb128> cassidy, http://vanillux.org/
<seb128> in fact
<seb128> derivative distribution, good luck to them
<cassidy> actually I would like a proper GNOME flavour of Ubuntu
<cassidy> with an upstream GNOME desktop, etc
<seb128> what difference would you get with GNOME in Ubuntu?
<seb128> default theme?
<seb128> with unity being its own desktop GNOME should go back to be closer from upstream desktop over time
<cassidy> and ideally, unpatched app (libindicate, etc)
<seb128> we will not patch gnome-shell
<seb128> with unity2d we will probably unpatch gnome-panel
<cassidy> ah that's good
<cassidy> isn't there a "relation with GNOME community" session this afternoon or something?
<seb128> indicators are standalone sources for the most part and the things we patch will be moved over time to be proper indicators
<seb128> yes there is one
<cassidy> cool, I'll try to attend over irc
<seb128> great
<cassidy> I don't really want to leave Ubuntu but if I can't have a proper GNOME experience I'll probably consider doing so
<cassidy> so it would be good to try to not make this happen :)
<seb128> cassidy, it's a 15h
<cassidy> cool, I'll be there
<cassidy> there is a live stream, irc chan, etc ?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> live stream and irc
<seb128> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-o/2011-05-12/ has the schedule
<seb128> the irc channel will be #ubuntu-uds-lehar
<cassidy> oki
<seb128> cassidy, the streams are on http://icecast.ubuntu.com:8000/
<seb128> ok, got to go, see you later
<cassidy> yep
<Cimi> pitti: rickspencer3: I have a visual update for the overlay scrollbar. fixes a hot bug, though it changes visuals... do I need to put it in natty-proposed or oneiric?
<rickspencer3> do you have a bug link?
<Cimi> sure
<Cimi> rickspencer3: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-scrollbar/+bug/773263
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 773263 in overlay-scrollbar "scrolling doesn't work at the edge of the screen (fitts' law is broken)" [Undecided,In progress]
<Cimi> rickspencer3: there's a video too, it changes a lot (visually)
<rickspencer3> that looks like an oneiric fix to me
<Cimi> rickspencer3: me too, I'd say let's open a natty PPA too
<Borreal> hi
<Borreal> is there someone inline?
<basso> hello :D
<basso> Hello again!
<basso> Hello hello :D
<basso> Hello! :3
<tseliot> pitti: are you available now?
<tseliot> pitti: we're in kazinczy
<ricotz> cyphermox, hi, did you get my message?
<basso> Hello everyone :D
<basso> Hello again!
<basso> Even more hello!
<kklimonda> ls
<basso> im in love with danish "gifflar"
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-05-13
<kiwinote> alex3f: just fyi there's a s-c session at uds starting shortly in #ubuntu-uds-dery. There's also a live audio stream. More info at http://uds.ubuntu.com/participate/remote/
<alex3f> kiwinote: thank you
<cyphermox> ricotz: I donÂ´t think I got your message, whatever it was ;)
<ricotz> cyphermox, hi, it was a pm, let me send it again
<pitti> Cimi: you need to put it in oneiric either way
<pitti> Cimi: for the rest I think I need to look at the bug first
<Us3r_Unfriendly> hi ya guys
<Us3r_Unfriendly> no ones awake here either?
<chrisccoulson> kenvandine, https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/gmail-conversation-view/
<chrisccoulson> that's pretty cool
<chrisccoulson> it's something else that the mozilla guys are working on ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, stop trying to sell your crack there ;-)
 * kenvandine tries
<kenvandine> seb128, chrisccoulson: if we get tbird by default we should look at disabling the message syncing by default
<kenvandine> that can be huge...
<chrisccoulson> kenvandine, i will talk to them about that
<seb128> kenvandine, the message syncing?
<kenvandine> by default it downloads all your messages
<kenvandine> in all your folders
<chrisccoulson> kenvandine, it would probably be better to limit it to the last 100 messages or something
<kenvandine> perhaps
<seb128> kenvandine, like the content?
<kenvandine> yes
<chrisccoulson> like on my cell phone ;)
<seb128> that's mad
<kenvandine> indeed
<kenvandine> i have nearly 8G in my gmail...
<kenvandine> chrisccoulson, i really prefer the lazy method that evo uses
<kenvandine> it works very well
<seb128> the download all messages works fine when you get a small inbox
<kenvandine> sure...
<ricotz> seb128, hello
<seb128> hi ricotz
<ricotz> seb128, is there a nice package list for gnome and its close dependencies?
<seb128> ricotz, check the jhbuild components list upstream maybe?
<seb128> ricotz, what are you trying to do or get?
<ricotz> hmm, that might work
<ricotz> i just want to have an overview of its deps
<ricotz> to know which package might need to be synced to natty if there are dependency bumps
<fredp> ricotz: quick jhbuild hack, http://paste.debian.net/116845/
<ricotz> fredp, thanks!
<ricotz> fredp, which jhbuild module is this from?
<fredp> gnome-suite-core-deps-3.0
<ricotz> ok
<fredp> ricotz: basically it is jhbuild -m gnome-apps-3.0 list -r and a hack to only get modules from suite-core-deps
<bigon> something has been decided for gnome-shell in oneiric?
<jbicha> bigon: what's your question?
<bigon> jbicha: I was asking about the inclusion
<jbicha> bigon: Gnome Shell won't be on the CD but it will be in the repositories, I think in main
<bigon> jbicha: alright thx
<robert_ancell> Riddell, no kubuntu LightDM session?
<Amaranth> wow, perfect timing didrocks :)
<didrocks> Amaranth: hum? ;)
<Amaranth> didrocks: want to get http://git.compiz.org/compiz/plugins/wall/commit/?id=bff12446188ea4d56b8e14f1f649c9a544c009fa in oneiric ASAP so we can get it SRU'ed
<Amaranth> smspillaz suggested I talk to you rather than push to bzr, upload, and file an SRU bug :)
<didrocks> Amaranth: we have other SRU to upload, can that wait on Monday?
<didrocks> (compiz SRU I mean)
<Amaranth> sure
<didrocks> Amaranth: can you add patch/bzr push ?
<didrocks> Amaranth: and of course, do the SRU paperwork :)
<Amaranth> heh, sure
<didrocks> Amaranth: oh that one (slow internet connexionÃ 
<didrocks> Amaranth: I already discussed with the SRU team about that one
<Amaranth> Yeah, I keep almost disconnecting from IRC
<didrocks> Amaranth: it's a "UI change" not sure we can SRU it
<didrocks> well UI/experience change
<didrocks> but I agree definitively for oneiric :)
<Amaranth> didrocks: Yes but I heard that was when everyone thought it would need some new feature added to the code so I was hoping we could try since it's so simple
<didrocks> Amaranth: let me check with pitti before you bzr push, ok? (there is a recent compiz bug about it IIRC)
<Amaranth> was just looking for a bug to attach this to actually
<Tommeh> Has anyone seen behaviour such as this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wine/+bug/757331 ?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 757331 in wine "Display freeze randomly when using Unity desktop (particularly with Windows apps run using wine)" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<Tommeh> It's the exact same behaviour for me, although I haven't touched Wine for ages.
<Tommeh> And I can't reproduce it -- it's absolutely random
<Tommeh> No pattern to the freezing. Although Spotify (linux ver.) is still playing music in the background, the mouse cursor is still moving -- the desktop is just locked to any interaction.
<Tommeh> I can switch to a terminal and restart GDM, which solves it.. That's all I've found to fix it thus far (which is frustrating given that all my apps need reloading)
<Tommeh> To clarify, this only happens in Unity, not Gnome Shell
<Tommeh> (And yes, I have the gnome3/xorg-edgers PPAs installed. Which could well be related.)
<basso> wooooo!
<basso> everything works nice again! :D
<johnhamelink> Hi, is this a good place to work about gnome-3?
<johnhamelink> *talk
<basso> yeah sure
<basso> either here or in the gnome-shell channel in irc.gnome.org
<basso> depends on the question
<johnhamelink> I installed gnome-3 from the PPA, but I have artifacts on the bar on the top of the screen, as well as when any kind of animation is triggered
<johnhamelink> I followed the install guide on askubuntu.com
<basso> what gfx card and what driver?
<johnhamelink> lspci says I'm using a "01:05.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc M880G [Mobility Radeon HD 4200]"
<johnhamelink> How do I detect which driver is enabled?
<basso> uhhh ati :D
<basso> usualy at "Hardware Drivers"
<johnhamelink> Where, sorry?
<basso> ah wops
<basso> the program is called "Additional Drivers"
<basso> there you can install and uninstall drivers that are avalible at ubuntus repos
<johnhamelink> Yeah, the official drivers are installed and enabled
<basso> and you have artifacts problems?
<johnhamelink> Yes, and I can't take a picture of exactly what I see, either
<basso> so a screen shot wont capture it.. hmm
<johnhamelink> It does, it's just different
<basso> well, you can try to install the newest drivers from a ppa
<basso> xorg something
<johnhamelink> Ok?
 * basso starts googleing
<johnhamelink> Thanks basso :)
<basso> you have the nice gang here https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat/+archive/x-updates
<basso> i used them before for nvidia drivers
<johnhamelink> Ok, I'll try that :)
<johnhamelink> Here's a pic, by the way
<johnhamelink> http://imgur.com/rfX1O
<johnhamelink> As I said, it's not exactly what I see
<basso> you might want to find a guide for installing on that ppa
<johnhamelink> I've just done an upgrade
<basso> can you try to restart gnome shell
<johnhamelink> that should work
<basso> by running alt+f2 and typing r
<johnhamelink> Ok
<johnhamelink> Hmm, interesting
<basso> what did happen?
<johnhamelink> it looks better now, but the icons are still muddled
<basso> hehe
<basso> well maybe a driver update might help
<johnhamelink> and the artifacts are gone when animating
<basso> uhhh
<johnhamelink> Awesome, I'll let you know how it goes :)
<basso> well its atleast an improvement
<johnhamelink> yeah :)
<basso> yeah you just drop inn here after your done, ill be sticking around for a while^^
<johnhamelink> Awesome, cheers :)
<johnhamelink> ok, brb :)
<basso> okidoki
<basso> my fear is, after the driver update, we will never see him again :O
<basso> It has begun
<zniavre> :o)
<basso> ^^
<zniavre> i reinstalled the whole system yesterday cause gnome3/shell unsuccessfull test
<basso> aiai?
<basso> what happened?
<basso> what was the problem?
<zniavre> i think my hardware is too old (nvidia/nouveau were slow )
<basso> i use the propiatierearyea drivers
<basso> on the 9600
<basso> and yes
<basso> gnome shell gets slow sometimes on nviida
<basso> nvidia*
<zniavre> ho ?
<basso> that is because when using the proproerieyat drivers (cant spell it), nvidia has a nice feature to clock down the card dynamicly
<basso> and when gnome shell was slow, the card was clocked to a minimum
<johnhamelink> Hi again
<basso> so natrualy i put it on maximum performance
<basso> Hello hello johnhamelink
<basso> so did you survive?
<johnhamelink> Yeah, no luck
<zniavre> basso i did not know this point , any idea how to workaround this point ?
<johnhamelink> I survived, but no progress, unfortunately =
<johnhamelink> *=/
<basso> zniavre: but how slow was it?, what gfx card and what drivers?
<basso> johnhamelink: aw thats bad :(
<basso> johnhamelink: last time i check the gnome shell bugtracker, there were alot related to gfx, so it might be fixed in the future
<zniavre> gfx is fx5500 with 173.14.30 nvidia (repos and binary) and nouveau  the lag was like one minute between clic and action
<basso> awww.. the fx5500 is indeed an old card
<basso> and i dont think its supported anymore by nvidia.. i think
<johnhamelink> Ok thanks basso, I guess I'll have to wait it out :)
<zniavre> they supply driver (at least to e compiled with recent kernel)
<zniavre> be*
<basso> zniavre: yes i see that now at their site
<basso> johnhamelink: hehe yes :)
<zniavre> this card can't run unity  :o(  i have the feeling new interfaces must be on recent hardwares
<basso> zniavre: there are always alternatives, but i know how you feel, got sad myself when my old cards didnt really like new fancy 3d drivers desktops :3
<basso> zniavre: well you do have unity 2d avalible at the repos
<zniavre> i stick with gnome until they will upgrade to gnome3 and then maybe switch to xfce
<zniavre> unity2d is not the experience like unity
<basso> zniavre: but its 2d, and a dock and the universal-gnome-panel-thingi :)
<basso> but gnome shell eats ram
<zniavre> that s true but unity is much better
<basso> i beg to differ
<zniavre> :o)
<basso> the desktop experience unity, which uses compiz, a compiz-plugin dock called unity, and a modified gnome panel isnt that good, and i cant handle compiz because of vertical tearing and performance
<basso> with mutter in gnome shell, i dont have any vertical tearing what so ever, i pooped myself when i found out :O
<basso> and the workflow is so much better
<basso> i finaly now can have the ugliest clutter of windows and programs, and can manage it like a wizard eating brownies
<zniavre> how did you do with this gfx clocked ?
<johnhamelink> I think gnome-shell is nicer from a UX perspective
<basso> its in the nvidia x server settings
<basso> and in powermizer
<zniavre> ok i ll check this
<basso> johnhamelink: UX perspective?
<zniavre> thank you
<basso> zniavre: no problemo :)
<johnhamelink> basso, yeah the user experience on gnome-shell is nicer in my opinion
<basso> ah yes
<basso> that is true
<basso> but the biggest challenge, is getting a child to use it
<johnhamelink> Yep
<basso> i want to see how children react to it :O
<basso> i remember when i used my first computer
<johnhamelink> :)
<basso> 166mhz, 16mb ram Windows 95 best of doom
<basso> beast*
<basso> i thought the dos prompt was a text editor
<johnhamelink> lol
<basso> and now my main computer is a macbook pro with ubuntu and gnome 3
<basso> and no, i dont recommend running gnome 3 on your main computer xD
<zniavre> :o)
<johnhamelink> I'm on a shitty toshiba, and this is my main computer right now :P
<basso> the computer running this stream http://www.ustream.tv/channel/narvik-studentradio is a P3 running lubuntu
<johnhamelink> nice :P
<basso> thats so nice about GNU/Linux, there is something for everything, no matter how crappy the hardware
<Omega> *mature
<Omega> :)
<basso> ^^
<basso> i just found the best wallpaper in the world
<basso> and i cant get it out :O
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-05-14
<basso> Good morning everyone!
<LLStarks> pidgin is still blocking oneiric perl. is this normal?
<jbicha> yes, the perl transition hasn't quite finished
<jbicha> so you can either remove your pidgin or wait until it gets sorted out
<LLStarks> thanks. i see colin is on top of everything.
<jbicha> hi, I packaged gconf-editor 3 and would like it to be added to the Gnome 3 PPA
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-05-15
<ricotz> jbicha, hi, i can upload gconf-editor, just tested it
<jbicha> cool, thank you!
<ricotz> jbicha, no problem, thank you
<latenite> Hi I just upgraded my gf PC remotey via vnc. Now after reboot Ubuntu starts some kind of firewall and port 5900 and port 22 are no longer open. Neither is "ctrl+alt+F1" working to login to a tty. Worst thing hardware does not support Unity and only dispaly some mad info. So she cant click anywhere. I feel like ""wtf" :D But oh well...any Ideas how I can get to help her?
<mterry> latenite, #ubuntu is the support channel, you may have more luck there
<latenite> mterry, ah ok :D thx
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-05-07
<bcurtiswx> empathy bug #917302 is fixed in folks 0.6.9 but 0.6.8-2 is shipped in Precise. That bug has a lot of heat, may be worth an update.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 917302 in empathy "empathy-chat crashed with SIGSEGV in g_str_hash()" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/917302
<mlankhorst> cnd: any luck yet reproducing
<bcurtis> is everyone still sleeping at UDS ? :P
<seiflotfy> hey guys where can i watch or listen to a live stream of uds keynote
<ricotz> seiflotfy, http://video.ubuntu.com/live/
<seiflotfy> ricotz: thanks
<Karou> yo
<Karou> can somebody help a dude out?
<Karou> ubuntu 12.04 grub2 or just grub
<robert_ancell> seb128, what is the link to the versions page?
<seb128> ?!
<seb128> http://people.canonical.com/~platform/desktop/versions.html
<seb128> you mean?
<seb128> re
<seb128> adam_d, sorry, just changed room and got disconnected, did you get the url?
<robert_ancell> seb128, yup, was what I wanted (using adams laptop)
<seb128> ok
<seb128> robert_ancell, where are you guys hidding? ;-)
<robert_ancell> seb128, main lobby
<desrt> MrChrisDruif: around now
<desrt> MrChrisDruif: what's up?
<seb128> robert_ancell, ok, I might come in a bit
<MrChrisDruif> desrt; still around?
<ogra_> smspillaz, where the heck are you ? trying to find you since 12:00
<desrt> MrChrisDruif: back again for a few moments
<MrChrisDruif> Hurray!
<desrt> what's up?
<MrChrisDruif> I've heard you preferred GNOME Shell as well?
<desrt> yup
<MrChrisDruif> You might want to join ##gubuntu and check it's topic for a google doc of interest
<MrChrisDruif> I want to get a team together to make a new spin for a gnome shell flavoured release of ubuntu
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-05-08
<mlankhorst> \12
<robert_ancell> pitti_, do you want to go to the multi-seat session (203) - regarding ck?
<jbicha> hey, sorry I missed the GNOME session, I was on the road :)
<jbicha> GNOME Contacts is in pretty bad shape, at least on my computer
<esuave_> question, is there a way to check if a program is already running.. and if so.. dont open another instance?
<esuave_> im having a problem where users are starting an application, and they dont see the window so they are starting the same application again.. and its breaking things
<mterry> kenvandine, I see you in the etherpad...  Lurker
<OptiWork> can the login in lightdm be moved to the right side of the screen? and do you have a link on how to do that?
<mlankhorst> Pendulum: ahh now i see why
<plm> Hi all
<OptiWork> can the login in lightdm be moved to the right side of the screen? and do you have a link on how to do that?
<seb128> OptiWork, no you can't, out of changing the greeter code
<ogra_> (file a whishlist bug ;) )
<OptiWork> grr  ok thanks seb128
<OptiWork> will need to rework some gfx then
<OptiWork> thanks again *wave*
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-05-09
<Optichip> can someone tell me how to use skel to save panel icon settings for all users?
<Optichip> really no one available to help tonight eh?
<Optichip> maybe Ubuntu needs a new desktop team to answer tech support questions.
<TheMuso> Optichip: We are currently in the middle of the Ubuntu Developer Summit in Oakland California, USA. It is currently late evening, and the vast majority of people are out for the evening. As for your question, this is not a support channel. Try #ubuntu for support. I'm also unable to answer your query I'm affraid.
<lifeless> TheMuso: optidude is gone already
<AfC> Dude
<TheMuso> lifeless: Not from what I can see with tab completion..
<lifeless> TheMuso: your tab completion is broken then!
<lifeless> 14:36 < Optichip> can someone tell me how to use skel to save panel icon settings for all users?
<lifeless> 14:50 < Optichip> really no one available to help tonight eh?
<TheMuso> hrm ok.
<lifeless> 14:51 < Optichip> maybe Ubuntu needs a new desktop team to answer tech support questions.
<lifeless> 14:52 -!- Optichip [~chris@unaffiliated/optichip] has left #ubuntu-desktop ["WeeChat 0.3.7"]
<TheMuso> ok
<lucidfox> ricotz, since you seem to package gnome-shell-extensions for the PPA, I have a query
<lucidfox> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell-extensions
<lucidfox> this was autosynced from Debian, but the problem is, it's useless in Quantal - it's for GS 3.2 and won't work with 3.4
<lucidfox> and there are no new releases on ftp.gnome.org
<ricotz> lucidfox, actually you are supposed to use https://extensions.gnome.org/ to install the extensions -- i am only adding the official extensions to my ppa for convenience reasons and to catch up with api changes of the g-s snapshots
<lucidfox> So I guess there's no need for a gnome-shell-extensions package, and it should be deleted?
<ricotz> lucidfox, i guess updating it to the lasted 3.4.x release tag would be more appropriate
<lucidfox> From git? Possible, but seems dirty... there is no official tarball
<ricotz> yes, from git, this is done for multiple packages
<sivang> hi all
<sivang> is unity 2D implemeted purely using QML?
<OptiWork> hi can anyone help with a glib-compile-schema error?  http://paste.ubuntu.com/978092/
<robert_ancell> RAOF, system compositor session?
<apw> `/b 39
<kenvandine> seb128, can you try to reproduce the evolution preview hang on merge proposal emails with the scrollbars disabled?
<kenvandine> LIBOVERLAY_SCROLLBAR=0 evolution
<seb128> kenvandine, can try
<seb128> kenvandine, does that fix it for you?
<kenvandine> seb128, i can't reproduce it with that
<kenvandine> bug 959276
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 959276 in evolution "Scrolling message in preview breaks rendering" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/959276
<kenvandine> seb128, please comment
<mlankhorst> :q
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-05-10
<kayve> I've just upgraded my Ubuntu and now my Classic Gnome is refusing to send app instances to other workspaces
<kayve> Can someone please help me get my Classic Gnome behavior to where I can organize my apps between workspaces?  Thank you in advance.
<kayve> I move them, they momentarily flash on the workspace navigator and return to the current worspace
<chrisccoulson> pitti, bug 979251
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 979251 in linux "Compiz hangs every time when undocking or changing display configuration" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/979251
<seb128> pitti, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/zenity/+bug/995435
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 995435 in zenity "Zenity --list uses 100%cpu and does nothing" [Critical,Fix released]
<rwb> Hi, I just upgraded to 12.04, and panel and desktop switcher is broken.  I was using 11.04 in fallback mode.  Now, my menu is grey (not black) the alt-right click on the panel does nothing.  and my desktop switcher won't remember settings.  Also when I click on a workspace in the switcher, it hides all the panels...  Any advice?
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-05-11
<mlankhorst> when is desktop dinner?
<RAOF> mlankhorst: 7:30 in the lobby.
<RAOF> mlankhorst: Although obviously not _actually_ in the lobby âº.  We'll be walking down to the bay.
<mlankhorst> sure
<mlankhorst> was just worried I missed it, ubuntu keysigning turned out to be a mess :(
<mlankhorst> they used short fingerprints instead of the full ones on the paper
<mlankhorst> so some kind soul produced a collission to demonstrate how insecure it really is
<mlankhorst> be there in a mo
<mlankhorst> so the elevator didn't actually take me to the 21st floor
<mlankhorst> it dropped me off at 20th floor instead
<micahg> mlankhorst: I saw an off by one error in that system earlier in the week
<mlankhorst> yeah it previously just ate going up as well..
<mlankhorst> so after it dropped someone off at 16th floor, doors stayed open and it dropped the 21 call
<dupondje> If somebody has time, could he try to simulate my Gnome3 issue. 1) Boot your computer (do not login yet). 2) Wait ~5 minutes 3) Login to gnome-shell
<dupondje> This cases in a lot of cases (for me at least) that Gnome3 is not completely started
<dupondje> quite annoying :(
<dupondje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/telepathy-haze/+bug/984432 this is duplicate of private bug
<ubot2> dupondje: Error: <Bugtracker.plugin.Launchpad instance at 0xa91202c> bug 984432 not found
<dupondje> any reason the bug is private ?
<dupondje> casue still having those crashes
<geser> dupondje: crash bugs might contain private data in those files apport attaches. A human has to check them before the bug can go public.
<dupondje> well seems alot of people are affected
<dupondje> quite old bug already also :)
<dupondje> guess somebody needs to check it out
<glatzor> morning mvo
<glatzor> I am currently uploading aptdaemon and the dependencies to a ppa
<mvo> glatzor: the py3 port?
<mvo> glatzor: very nice!
<glatzor> mvo, oh I just wrote you a lengthy mail about my plans and work :)
<glatzor> mvo,  I am now off for breakfast
<glatzor> mvo, see you
<mvo> glatzor: see you, I read the mail in the meantime
<robert_ancell> seb128, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/gnome-flavor
<seb128> hey
<seb128> "gnome flavor" session in grand ballroom G now for those who want to join
<jasoncwarner_> chrisccoulson: hey...can you send me a link to the firefox theme again?
<jasoncwarner_> the pic?
<chrisccoulson> jasoncwarner_, yeah, 1 second. just need to find it :)
<chrisccoulson> jasoncwarner_, this is probably what you want - https://wiki.mozilla.org/Firefox/Features/Theme_Refinement_and_Evolution_%28Australis%29
<chrisccoulson> there are links to various design mockups from there
<jasoncwarner_> chrisccoulson: yup, thanks!
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-05-12
<mlankhorst> el
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-05-06
<pitti> Good morning
<robru> pitti, good evening!
<robru> pitti, did you have a good flight home?
<pitti> it was uneventful, and everything on time, so "yes"
<robru> pitti, excellent ;-)
<pitti> as "good" as a flight back to Europe can be :)
<pitti> still jetlagged and a bit ubuflu-ed, but that'll settle
<robru> pitti, I had a bad connection and got to spend a day in Seattle. The weather was beautiful and I took a ride on a ferris wheel. What fun! ;-)
<darkxst> pitti, hi
<pitti> hey darkxst, how are you?
<pitti> robru: hm, you didn't get very far then
<pitti> robru: but I'm glad you could make the best of it!
<robru> pitti, no, not very far at all ;-) but home now and gearing up for a fresh work week.
<darkxst> pitti, good
<darkxst> pitti, so packagekit stuff seems to be working now, but I need to add a new api to get language lists from language-selector
<darkxst> I suspose I need to add that to packagekit, before the python plugins will work?
<pitti> darkxst: depends; our preferred implementation in Ubuntu is language-selector
<pitti> darkxst: err, aptdaemon
<pitti> language-selector ships an aptdaemon plugin for "provides: locale"
<pitti> in /usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/language_selector-0.1.egg-info/entry_points.txt
<pitti> unfortunately packagekit discontinued the apt backend and only has the aptcc backend now, which doesn't understand these plugins any more
<pitti> so if you actually use packagekit, you can't use these python plugins any more
<pitti> but again, we actually want to use aptdaemon in Ubuntu
<darkxst> so I just add it there, and wherever in the python scripts?
<pitti> darkxst: what exactly do you want to add?
<pitti> darkxst: the specification for new what-provides queries needs to go into packagekit first indeed
<darkxst> pitti, I want to get the list of available languages
<pitti> hm, that doesn't really need a PK query
<darkxst> hmm, Laney suggested to do in package-kit
<pitti> accountsservice already has that AFAIK
<darkxst> pitti, as in uninstalled langugage packs
<pitti> that is, installed locales which don't have langpacks installed?
<darkxst> no, the locales are not installed (this is for g-c-c region capplet)
<pitti> https://gitorious.org/packagekit/packagekit/blobs/master/docs/provides-component-naming.txt
<pitti> querying for a particular language is exactly what LANGUAGE_SUPPORT does
<pitti> locale -a -> installed locales
<pitti> and language-selector has some code to determine the set of available languages from /usr/share/i18n/SUPPORTED
<pitti> (that bit is not package related)
<darkxst> pitti, yes I wanted to hijack the language-selector code, rather than read SUPPORTED and check each locale to see if langugage packs are installed
<darkxst> my first idea was to add a dbus interface to language-selector
<darkxst> pitti, so what would you suggest I do then?
<pitti> darkxst: I think you should just copy the logic from l-s, instead of changing PK's API (as getting this released will take a while)
<darkxst> pitti, I really don't want to duplicate the l-s code, and besides converting python code into C is not much fun
<pitti> I thought rodrigo_ already had a g-c-c branch for this stuff a while ago
<pitti> so I guess that still didn't land
<darkxst> rodrigo's branch was never finished
<darkxst> he just read SUPPORTED directly, but that ends up with a list with lots of duplicates
<darkxst> actually I don't think he ever tested his code, it was incredibly broken
<darkxst> pitti, thers actually quite a lot going on in l-s, like reading hardcoded lists and intersecting them with other lists
<pitti> yeah, I know
<darkxst> pitti, so l-s isnt going away anytime soon right? since Kubuntu and Xubuntu use it also
<pitti> we actually wanted to drop it in favor of the g-c-c region panel for quite a while now
<pitti> but it seems the full design has never been implemented there
<darkxst> pitti, you can drop the gui, but there is nothing there to handle ubuntu languages
<pitti> the idea was to use the PK what-provides API
<pitti> and language-selector common implements that for aptdaemon and PK's apt backend
<darkxst> so you can't drop l-s anyway
<darkxst> it would be much nicer to just get a list of available languages from there as well
<pitti> right
<pitti> well, we can drop it once g-c-c DTRT
<pitti> but somehow the upstream g-c-c needs to figure out a list of available locales?
<pitti> how should it do that other than parsing SUPPORTED?
<pitti> AFAIK the problem was to teach it to install additional packages, not figuring out the list of available languages
<darkxst> pitti, I don't think upstream has much interest in this problem
<darkxst> they did say I could add an install languages button
<darkxst> but not sure they are really keen on full packagekit integration with the region gui
 * pitti crawls back into bed, argh ubuflu
<mlankhorst> ooh fun
<mlankhorst> pitti: conferences, where young parents share their kids diseases
<mlankhorst> :D
<robru> hmmmm, where is didrocks? is it a holiday in France?
<robru> did his plane crash?!? WHERE IS HE?!?! ;-)
<didrocks> good mornâ¦well afternoon :)
<didrocks> robru: (backlogging on irclogs.ubuntu.com): no no, no crash, just heavily jetlag. just 5 hours of sleep since Friday, seems I needed 14 hours of sleep to get back on shape today :-)
<didrocks> well "on shape", just enough for dist-upgrading to saucy I guess + pushing my hacking to cupstream2distro I did during the travel :)
<robru> didrocks, yikes
<didrocks> robru: oh, still awake? :)
<robru> didrocks, oh god, is it 4:30AM? well, call me a little jetlagged too ;-)
<BigWhale> Greetings all.
<didrocks> robru: heh, indeed, another kind of jetlag! :)
<didrocks> hey BigWhale
<BigWhale> I envy you all this jetlag! :P
<didrocks> robru: so, you enjoyed an extra day in Seattle?
<didrocks> BigWhale: I bet you do :)
<robru> didrocks, seattle was wonderful! we should do the next sprint there!
<didrocks> robru: I only know the airport when going to Portland :)
<didrocks> robru: I heard the weather is quite rainy generally though
<robru> BigWhale, I didn't have to leave my time zone to get to the sprint, but somehow I am really off my sleep schedule right now...
<BigWhale> :))
<robru> didrocks, well it was sunny and beautiful for me... ;-)
<didrocks> nice!
<BigWhale> you're not really making it easier for me! you all shoud say that sprint really sucked... :P
<didrocks> BigWhale: we didn't see that much the light of the day, as every room had no window if you prefer :p
<BigWhale> :)
<BigWhale> I somewhat solved the biggest Kazam issue, now I have to start hanging out around the Mir guys ... :)
<robru> BigWhale, no no, I was talking about the city I got stuck in for a day on my way home... not the sprint itself ;-)
<didrocks> heh :)
<didrocks> saucy, here I come!!!
<robru> didrocks, let me know how it goes. I already have some bug reports about friends not running very well in saucy... some API breakage in new libraries. I expect I'll upgrade tomorrow
<didrocks> robru: sure, will do! :)
<didrocks> robru: for webapps-applications, I'll do the bootstrapping again FYI and rerun
<robru> didrocks, ok, thanks buddy.
<didrocks> yw! :-)
<robru> didrocks, btw, so jenkins emails me about the build failures once they've been uploaded to the PPA -- that's really great. but I guess there's no way to be emailed about failures before the upload even happens?
<didrocks> robru: it's not jenkins emailing you, it's launchpad
<robru> didrocks, right, that's what I meant
<didrocks> as you are part of the ubuntu-unity team
<robru> PPA build failures from launchpad, those are handy
<didrocks> robru: yeah, we'll need the dashboard for that
<didrocks> to have a "higher view"
<didrocks> and emails when needed on whatâ¦
<robru> didrocks, does jenkins always use a staging PPA even once we enable releasing to distro?
<didrocks> robru: yeah, it's always a 2 steps process
<didrocks> build in a ppa
<didrocks> if the stack is validated -> copy to distro
<didrocks> the difference is daily-build-next is called daily-build
<didrocks> and next is distro
<didrocks> (so we only use one PPA instead of 2)
<robru> didrocks, right, that makes sense now. I was wondering why we were using 2 PPAs ;-)
<didrocks> robru: we just mimick "distro" as long as we don't have it :-)
<robru> but that's good because I can be confident that I'll keep getting build failure emails even after we move back to distro releases
<didrocks> exactly :)
<didrocks> but that won't show you up that the stack is in manual publishing mode for instance
<robru> yeah
<didrocks> or that some components have their prepare step yellow as a manual upload has been done
<robru> and it wouldn't email me about failures to build the source packages.
<didrocks> so still need to check jenkins
<didrocks> yep
<robru> but some emails are nice ;-)
<didrocks> :)
 * didrocks reboots
<didrocks> hum
<robru> didrocks, problems?
<didrocks> I have llvmpipe rendering on saucyâ¦
<robru> didrocks, slow?
<didrocks> robru: yeah, and artefacts due to it :/
<robru> didrocks, yikes. intel?
<didrocks> right
<robru> didrocks, so I'll wait before upgrading ;-)
<didrocks> libGL error: failed to load driver: i965
<didrocks> interesting :)
<Nafallo> no intel :-P
<didrocks> libgl1-mesa-dri is installed though
<didrocks> tseliot: any idea? (if around) ^
<didrocks> sudo modprobe i915 seems to do nothingâ¦
<didrocks> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5638376/
<didrocks> added myself to the video group, way better :)
<didrocks> robru: FYI ^
<robru> weird
<robru> ok, will keep that in mind, thanks
<ogra_> sounds liek the driver misses a udev-acl rule then
<didrocks> ogra_: yeah, I wonder though as some other have the same hw and upgraded already
<ogra_> well, who cares about intel anyway ... ask long as arm works :)
<mlankhorst> ogra_: I want to get 1.14 ready for saucy, I heard the latest tegra drivers had support for 1.14?
<didrocks> ogra_: tssss :p
<ogra_> mlankhorst, we dont build any tegra Xorg images anymaore ... the only arm desktop image left is pandaboard ... for which we wont get a new binary driver
<seb128> the permission issue is likely a logind problem, better to ask pitti tomorrow (I think he's swapping today)
<mlankhorst> so that's no new armhf desktop images then? o.o
<seb128> mlankhorst, is the plan to get 1.14 in saucy? if it breaks drivers we might have to hold on that update...
<ogra_> mlankhorst, right, we keep panda adound (but thats 1.13) to test arm desktop apps ....
<mlankhorst> I thought fglrx and nvidia were ready though
<ogra_> there was kind of the rumour around that we will not touch xorg this cycle
<ogra_> (during the sprint)
 * ogra_ heard that from several sources
<mlankhorst> I'll ask bryce when he gets online then
<seb128> ogra_, well, it was said during the sprint that we need to have a working armhf image to test apps
<seb128> mlankhorst, ^
<mlankhorst> seb128: well the tegra touch issue is going to be fixed
<ogra_> seb128, it was also said that we wont have x86 bianry driver updates
<seb128> ogra_, is the current driver working on 1.14 or not?
<ogra_> mlankhorst, see above,  no more touch image that uses xorg
<ogra_> seb128, it sint
<ogra_> *isnt
<seb128> what driver is used on the nexus desktop image?
<ogra_> well, i doubt anyone tested ... it isnt supposed to :)
<ogra_> seb128, tegra3 ... but that image is gone
<seb128> hum
<ogra_> (i just disabled it)
<seb128> would tegra3 work on x 1.14?
<ogra_> sure
<ogra_> but not on the kernel we have for the nexus7
<seb128> can't we keep the nexus image and disable the pando one instead?
<ogra_> which is completely touch centric
<seb128> I'm just trying to understand the options
<ogra_> you wish
<ogra_> panda is our only option for desktop atm
<seb128> we need a working armhf xorg
<seb128> why?
<seb128> seems like nexus would be
<seb128> define" desktop"
<ogra_> because we have no working kernel for nexus7 non touch
<seb128> oh ok
<seb128> stucked either way :/
<mlankhorst> why wouldn't the touch kernel work though?
<ogra_> to make xorg work it needs a patch that breaks touch on android based images
<ogra_> (nexus7 that is)
<mlankhorst> what patch? it might be possible to workaround
<seb128> so we would have to maintain an extra kernel/image for non-touch nexus
<seb128> ?
<ogra_> additionally you would break ubuntu-touch through a lot of options we use on the desktop
<ogra_> seb128, right
<seb128> sucks
<seb128> mlankhorst, what changed in xorg 1.13 -> 1.14 ?
<ogra_> due to that and the fact that it was communicatede that we cant upgrade xorg anyway it was decided to keep the panda one
<mlankhorst> brr
<ogra_> (cant upgrade due to not getting bijnary drivers for nvidia/fglrx)
<ogra_> thats at least my last info
<mlankhorst> seb128: some touch fixes, they're increasingly hard to backport
<mlankhorst> oh and proper upstream support for pointer barriers
<seb128_> dsl disconnected
<ogra_> seb128, also, the panda image is now in hands of foundations ... (i'm phonedations now) ... i guess infinity is your man for them
<seb128_> mlankhorst, sorry, can you repeat what you wrote between my question and that "oh ..."
<mlankhorst> 14:29 < ogra_> (cant upgrade due to not getting bijnary drivers for nvidia/fglrx)
<mlankhorst> 14:29 < ogra_> thats at least my last info
<mlankhorst> 14:29 < mlankhorst> seb128: some touch fixes, they're increasingly hard to backport
<mlankhorst> 14:30 < mlankhorst> oh and proper upstream support for pointer barriers
<seb128_> mlankhorst, thanks
<ogra_> (always happy to help indeed, but officially they are in foundation team hands)
<seb128_> ogra_, well, my understanding was that we don't want to do any extra work on the panda image, out of "keep it working to be able to test apps on armhf/xorg"
<seb128_> but yeah, noted, it's maintained by foundations
<ogra_> right
<ogra_> i voted against that until it turned out we cant use the nexus7 kernel for desktop images
<seb128_> mlankhorst, how much do we care about touch on xorg if our device images are going to be based on Mir?
<ogra_> well, there are a lot x86 touch laptops now
<mlankhorst> nexus7 is just the easiest testcase I have for touch applications, mostly
<mlankhorst> I'm running a hacky xorg that has a bunch of abi patches reverted, not enough to keep tegra fully happy though, there are some graphical glithces
<mlankhorst> but for now it's good enough, I'll try to backport any input changes back to 1.13
<mlankhorst> once upstream xserver is fixed
<mlankhorst> seb128: but I was just running into a problem where I'm not sure whether mir currently supports any keyboard/mouse/touch input at all ;)
<seb128> mlankhorst, right, well the main constrain we have with the xorg update is "need a working amrhf image"
<mlankhorst> yeah I'm aware
<seb128> knowing that we will not get updated binary drivers for the panda
<seb128> which sort of block us to update to 1.14 if we don't find another solution
<mlankhorst> unfortunately :/
<didrocks> hum, and no sound as well on saucyâ¦
<seb128> didrocks, you have an acl issue with logind
<seb128> it seems
<seb128> check with Laney or pitti when they are around
<didrocks> seb128: yep
<didrocks> I can reproduce in the guest session as well
<didrocks> so at least, easier to debug
 * didrocks adds himself to the audio group
<seb128> adding yourself to those groups seem like a workaround
<didrocks> seb128: right, but I prefer to have something while they are not around :)
<tjaalton> so how can panda block x86?
<didrocks> seb128: or you have better options?
<didrocks> no 3D acc or no sound isn't nice
<tjaalton> the touch bug is oem critical
<tjaalton> on x86
<seb128> is systemd-logind running?
<didrocks> /lib/systemd/systemd-logind
<didrocks> yep
<seb128> didrocks, do you have libpam-systemd installed?
<didrocks>   InstallÃ©Â : 202-0ubuntu5
<pitti> seb128: not exactly swapping, just taking it easy (ubuflu and jetlag)
<didrocks> hey pitti!
<seb128> pitti, oh, I though you were one of the ones that were swapping it, sorry
<pitti> bonjour didrocks, Ã§a va ?
<pitti> didrocks: what's wrong?
<seb128> pitti, hey, had a good flight back? ubuflu :-(
<didrocks> pitti: Ã§a va bien, jetlag, mais bonâ¦ ;)
<didrocks> pitti: et toi? Ã  part ton ubuflu?
<pitti> didrocks: do you have a session in loginctl?
<pitti> didrocks: yeah, unfortunately :(
<pitti> can't escape it
<didrocks> pitti: no, 0 session in loginctl?
<didrocks> s/\?//
<pitti> didrocks: grep login /var/log/auth.log ?
<didrocks> pitti: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5638449/
<pitti> hm, nothing unusual
 * didrocks logs out quickly
<didrocks> hum, even adding myself to the audio and pulse group didn't helpâ¦
<pitti> argh
 * pitti replays last messages
<pitti> hm, nothing unusual
<pitti> didrocks: what did you do exactly?
<pitti> in terms of upgrades, reboot, etc.
<pitti> didrocks: ls -lR /sys/fs/cgroup/ ?
<didrocks> pitti: I just dist-upgraded to saucy
<didrocks> then reboot
<didrocks> no hardware acc (see above)
<pitti> yeah, that would be missing ACLs
<didrocks> so added myself to the video group (I wasn't in it)
<pitti> didrocks: you aren't supposed to be
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, I'm just trying to get back my saucy install on shape, I have my second user which is still broken for checking we get the fix :)
<didrocks> pitti: and so, same story with sound, so yeah, really having some acl broken
<didrocks> pitti: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5638461/
<didrocks> interesting, no nm-applet either, I guess same issueâ¦
<didrocks> but consequence is that I can't connect to the vpn :/
 * didrocks tries to install indicator-network and starts a guest session
<pitti> # killall systemd-logind; SYSTEMD_LOG_LEVEL=debug /lib/systemd/systemd-logind
<pitti> not much will work without that, though
<pitti> can you please open a root shell on VT1, run above command (perhaps with 2>&1 | tee /tmp/debug.log) and try to log in on VT2?
<pitti> (or into X; just don't login twice under the same X server)
<didrocks> pitti: ok, stopping it and doing that
<seb128> pitti, btw, is suspend not reliably working in saucy a known issue?
<pitti> seb128: no, not known, unless you mean right after logging in
<pitti> (we delay the screensaver for 15 seconds or so)
<pitti> so closing the lid doesn't work for the first 10 secs
<seb128> pitti, no, I had the issue several times during my return trip, it wouldn't suspend at some point
<seb128> I tried to suspend it through d-feet(iirc, not sure now) and it told me that a suspend was already pending
<seb128> but the action never happens
<seb128> well it seemed to have happened after logout, because I picked shutdown, and then it suspendend in middle of the shutdown
<pitti> ah, I had that a few times when debugging systemd-shim with desrt last week
<pitti> but we fixed that; so something else was apparently blocking the suspend on your first try
<seb128> ok, I will ping you next time it happens, if you have any idea on how to debug
<pitti> if you still vaguely know what you did, please file a bug against systemd-shim
<pitti> seb128: workaround is "sudo killall systemd-logind", FYI
<seb128> ok
<didrocks> pitti: nothing happens, I just have "SWITCH to VTx"
<didrocks> or rather VT changed toâ¦
<seb128> I didn't do anything special that I know about, just woke up and suspended a few times on my trip to the airport
<tseliot> didrocks: I'm not really sure as to what's going on there. Maybe Mesa is messed up?
<didrocks> tseliot: it's an ACL issue, so yeah, nothing to do with the driver :)
<didrocks> trying to see with pitti what's going on
<tseliot> ah, ok
<didrocks> thanks tseliot :)
<pitti> didrocks: hm, same exercise with strace perhaps? # killall systemd-logind; strace -fvvs1024 -o /tmp/logind.trace /lib/systemd/systemd-logind
<pitti> didrocks: btw, you can also run that in X, and use "ssh otheruser@localhost"
<pitti> didrocks: saves the VT switching
<didrocks> pitti: well, at least the VT switching gives real boundaries :) let me try it
<didrocks> pitti: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5638505/
<didrocks> pitti: I logged in with my "goo" user
<pitti> hm, there is nothing happening at all when you log in
<didrocks> yeah, it seems like I don't use systemd-logind at all
<pitti> didrocks: can you check /etc/pam.d/common-session whether it has "sessionoptionalpam_systemd.so"?
<pitti> erk, weechat not pasting tabs
<didrocks> pitti: no trace of pam_systemd.so
<didrocks> pitti: so it's a start :)
<seb128> didrocks, "session optional        pam_systemd.so "
<pitti> ah, that would be it
<seb128> right
<didrocks> pitti: I have ecryptfs
<didrocks> which changed the conffile
<seb128> I do have it as well
<pitti> me too
<seb128> ecryptfs
<pitti> pam-auth-update is supposed to get along with this
<seb128> session required        pam_unix.so
<seb128> session optional        pam_systemd.so
<seb128> session optional        pam_ecryptfs.so unwrap
<seb128> in the config here
<pitti> didrocks: "sudo pam-auth-update
<didrocks> pam-auth-update: Local modifications to /etc/pam.d/common-*, not updating.
<didrocks> pam-auth-update: Run pam-auth-update --force to override.
<pitti> didrocks: that should give you a debconf prompt about the modules; I guess systemd is shown, but not activated?
<pitti> ooh
<pitti> that's not happening here
<pitti> didrocks: put your file somewhere? people.u.c. ?
<didrocks> it doesn't seem I have local modification though: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5638522/
<didrocks> pitti: but a year ago, I tried to add fingerprint support
<didrocks> and then removed it
<didrocks> so maybe the md5sum or anything that pam-auth-update expect is not there
<pitti> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5638526/ is my diff
<pitti> didrocks: ah, I'm not entirely sure how pam-auth-update works; it might have some md5sum somewhere indeed
<didrocks> pitti: should I try to edit it by hand?
<pitti> didrocks: so --force should be your friend
<didrocks> or want to trace?
<didrocks> ok
<pitti> didrocks: you can save the file somewhere, and perhaps tar /var/lib/pam ?
<pitti> for reproducing
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, I've backed it up
<didrocks> after forcing, I have:
<didrocks> +sessionoptionalpam_winbind.so
<didrocks> +sessionoptionalpam_systemd.so
<didrocks> well, with tabsâ¦
<pitti> hmm
<pitti> even when I manually modify /etc/pam.d/common-session, pam-auth-update still works
<pitti> so I guess it only complains if there are pending package changes AND local modifications?
<didrocks> pitti: possibly, that's the content of my /etc/pam.d/ FYI: didrocks@tidus:~$ ls /etc/pam.d/* | pastebinit
<didrocks> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5638540/
<pitti> I don't have any .pam-old files
<pitti> seb128: btw, which version of systemd-shim did you have in the plane?
 * didrocks tries to log out and in again
<seb128> pitti, 3+real
<pitti> ok, that's current
<seb128> pitti, if I do resume and try to suspend in the next 15s second, will that break like the 15s after login?
<pitti> seb128: no, that should work fine
<seb128> ok, so that's not it
<pitti> what's likely is that a failure to suspend causes this
<pitti> hm, not even that; if pm-suspend fails, things still work
<seb128> is there any log that could contain infos about suspend failure issues?
<pitti> seb128: /var/log/pm-suspend.log
<pitti> seb128: also, /var/log/auth.log about logind itself
<seb128> Running hook /usr/lib/pm-utils/sleep.d/95anacron resume suspend:
<seb128> start: Job is already running: anacron
<seb128>  
<seb128> I wonder if that's an issue
<seb128> hum, no, that's not the current portion of the log
 * pitti tries to "exit 1" in /usr/lib/pm-utils/sleep.d/95anacron resume
<didrocks> pitti: ok, I've cleaned my user groups to remove it from video and everything's fine
<didrocks> tried on a guest session as well
<pitti> good
<didrocks> pitti: thanks! I have my old pam file if needed
<pitti> so something failed pam-auth-update
<didrocks> right
<didrocks> and it leads to something broken, we need to find it :)
<pitti> seb128: (will try as soon as my schroot upgrade finishes)
<pitti> seb128: hm, no; breaking a pm-utils hook still works fine here
 * pitti -> back to bed, bbl
<didrocks> pitti: seb128: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pam/+bug/1176910 FYI
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1176910 in pam (Ubuntu) "pam-auth-update can fail during raring -> saucy upgrade leading you to a broken session" [Undecided,New]
<seb128> didrocks, thanks! can you ping slangasek as well about it? not sure if he keeps up with launchpad bugs
<didrocks> seb128: will do :)
<seb128> 'ci
<mlankhorst> http://www.knmi.nl/actueel/images/tempgmt.png
<mlankhorst> grrrr @ heat
<desrt> seb128: :(
<desrt> seb128: we had exactly the issue you were describing when i first implemented suspend support -- thought it had been fixed :/
<didrocks> robru: updated the spreadsheet btw. There is a failure in at least one package at the second run (some files missing in POTFILES.in). Letting you fixing it :)
<didrocks> robotfuel: and also something taking the project name, but with the version number
<didrocks> robru: ^
<didrocks> sorry robotfuel :)
<didrocks> robru: also the twitter one is failing on command not found. I think you will have to again manually upload a new webapps-applications with a fix to the daily-build-next ppa :)
<desrt> seb128: can you ever get a failure on the first suspend or is it always on the second attempt?
<seb128> desrt, hey, sorry I'm just back from exercice
<seb128> desrt, had a good trip back?
<seb128> desrt, I didn't try today
<seb128> but the few times in happened saturday it was after the first suspend
<desrt> seb128: ya.  fairly uneventful.
<seb128> second or third, I'm not sure
<desrt> seb128: so the issue is that logind checks to make sure that the systemd suspend job is finished before it will issue another one
<desrt> probably in an attempt to avoid double-suspending...
<desrt> so at first this was completely failing with systemd-shim since it was saying nothing at all
<desrt> but i added a signal to say "okay!  done!" after it comes back
<desrt> apparently it's not doing the trick in all cases, though
<didrocks> robru: ok, I did the webapps-applications manual bootstrap so that we don't have to do it again.
<didrocks> robru: everything update on the spreadsheet :)
<desrt> it could also be the timeout logic in systemd-shim itself that is causing trouble but i consider that to be somewhat less likely
<seb128> desrt, what info would be useful next time I get the issue?
<desrt> seb128: a core of systemd-logind could help
<desrt> let me see if i can reproduce it myself, though
<desrt> does it impact all forms of suspending?
<desrt> ie: lid, keyboard key, suspend menuitem?
<seb128> I didn't try to debug
<seb128> I resumed from suspend at the airport, and tried to suspend again before boarding and it didn't want to
<seb128> then I picked shutdown, it closed the session, started shutdown and suspended on the plymouth logo
<desrt> _seriously_?
<seb128> when I resumed it finished the shutdown
<desrt> ouch.
<seb128> I didn't try to debug further
<seb128> yeah, well, I poked a bit manually in the session before doing shutdown
<desrt> okay.  i have a theory about why this may be the case.
<desrt> here's a bit more background:
<seb128> the dbus method was returning a "suspend already pending"
<desrt> systemd creates job objects for all requests you give it
<desrt> and returns this object as the return value of the call
<desrt> i always just say "/"
<desrt> then you emit a signal "job done!" on the object when it's done
<desrt> which i just always send immediately
<desrt> so i'm sending a "job done!" on "/" as a result of both shutdown and suspend
<desrt> logind is probably seeing my "job done!" on the shutdown as if it were for the suspend
<desrt> thus allowing the next suspend...
<desrt> or something
<desrt> i'm going to have to do some logind code reading
<desrt> pitti and i did a pretty quick job of it in oakland... i'll have to look more closely this time
<seb128> ok
<seb128> I will let you know if that happens every time
<seb128> I just don't want to suspend now :p
<desrt> it's on the top of my pile now
<desrt> ..so much for swap days :p
<desrt> seb128: starting to think that we have a good old-fashioned race condition here
<seb128> desrt, I can easily reproduce
<seb128> desrt, note that I suspend using indicator-session, not lid close
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-05-07
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> desrt: could be that suspend was blocked once, and then our systemd patch tried it anyway? I haven't uploaded the dropping of the patch yet
<bratsche> Morning pitti
<pitti> bratsche: hey Cody, long time no see! How are you?
<bratsche> Pretty good, pretty good.. how are you doing?
<pitti> overcoming ubuflu from last week's sprint, quite fine otherwise
<pitti> still happy in my upstream qa role
<bratsche> Very cool
<mlankhorst> g'morning
<Laney> morning!
<didrocks> hey Laney!
<Laney> hey didrocks, how's it going?
<didrocks> Laney: I'm good, thanks! just beeing awake from 1am to 5am, but wellâ¦ :)
<didrocks> yourself?
<Laney> still jetlagged?
<didrocks> seems so :)
<Laney> I had something similar on Sunday night but slept for over 12 hours on Saturday, so ...
<Laney> went climbing yesterday outside in the amazing sunshine which seems to have tired me out enough to fix it
<mlankhorst> :>
<didrocks> Laney: I came back on Sunday (well, leaving on Saturday), so hopefully, it will get fixed tomorrow :)
<mlankhorst> I'm sad to have missed you all on client sprint, but I did some nice horseback riding on sunday, trip was supposed to be 2 hours but it became 3, weather was great
<Laney> nice!
<mlankhorst> most important thing I learned was that a 'calm canter' isn't :)
<mlankhorst> or worse, it probably is...
<Laney> good for developing the thigh muscles eh
<mlankhorst> definitely, I did some biking yesterday too, there's some definite improvement compared to a few months ago
<mlankhorst> I didn't even get slowed down that much by a strong headwind
<Laney> rockin'
 * Laney dist-upgrades the desktop to saucy
<mlankhorst> rarin'
 * mlankhorst is installing raring desktop on panda, just to see if there's hw acceleration available or not, and then to check if that will still work on 1.14 with -ignoreabi
<Laney> thought we considered panda desktop to be dead
<mlankhorst> unfortunately it is blocking upgrade to 1.14 xserver :/
<Laney> "Please restart the computer to begin using your updated software [Restart] [No other option] [No close button]"
 * Laney grr
<Laney> right click -> quit works
<Laney> oh, but then refuses to run update-manager -d
<mlankhorst> yep, quite fun!
 * mlankhorst was having some fun with plymouth + mir today, turns out that there was no input support yet in mir, so no way to hook it up to plymouth
<tjaalton> ogra_: so, about what was discussed yesterday about panda et al. there has never been a blob for it on the main archive, so installing it has always resulted in a sub-optimal experience, especially on quantal & raring which don't have unity2d anymore
<tjaalton> ogra_: so I don't see how it could block any xorg update
<ogra_> tjaalton, the blob is preinstalled since precise
<ogra_> and is in the archive as well in resctricted
<tjaalton> ogra_: on what?
<tjaalton> huh?
<ogra_> on the panda desktop images
<tjaalton> I've always needed the ppa
<tjaalton> anyway, raring is broken already, right mlankhorst?
<ogra_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5640860/
<mlankhorst> tjaalton: not 100% sure, it installs with swrast, so if we only care about sw acceleration there's no blocker in moving to 1.14
<ogra_> raring is fine and was released
<ogra_> i have not a single bug about any graphics related regressions
<mlankhorst> and the drivers for pandaboard were EGL or GLES already, no OpenGL support
<ogra_> yes
<tjaalton> still sounds incredible that it's blocking the x86 world from moving on
<ogra_> and compiz works fine on it
<ogra_> not different to nexus7
<ogra_> tjaalton, i was told we will not get any updates on the x86 binary side either
<mlankhorst> erm doesn't nvidia drivers already work for 1.14?
<ogra_> at least nobody is assigned to work on it
<tjaalton> ogra_: we have drivers for 1.14 already since february
<tjaalton> or march for fgrlx
<tjaalton> where can I find the omap image?
<mlankhorst> but anyway pandaboard never had libgl drivers, so the only way compiz works is with swrast or a modified version to use the EGL libraries or something
<ogra_> tjaalton, on cdimage
<tjaalton> omap image for raring that is. I only see precise on cdimages.u.c/release
<mlankhorst> tjaalton: there is a raring usb image
<mlankhorst> that's the one you need :/
<tjaalton> oh found it
<ogra_> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/raring/release/
<ogra_> its an SD card image .... needs an USB stick/disk as target media
<ogra_> note that i would have preferretd to keep the nexus7 image (we even have updated tegra drivers for 1.14) ...
<seb128> hey desktopers
<didrocks> salut seb128!
<didrocks> seb128: team meeting report reminder (think about modifying it btw ;))
<tjaalton> ogra_: yeah I was blind, downloading atm..
<ogra_> mlankhorst, note that SWRAST wont be usable (unless it sped up a lot it is more like a slideshow than a desktop)
<mlankhorst> ogra_: and normal compiz IS usable? it uses opengl which panda doesn't support
<ogra_> it uses the gles implementation which linaro worked on for two years
<seb128> didrocks, hey, yeah I was about to do that, I just added sil2100 and Mirv to the team first
 * mlankhorst checks
<didrocks> seb128: excellent!
<mlankhorst> ogra_: hm seems you're right, still I'll try to find out if omap works on 1.14 if I specify -ignoreABI, it probably should unless it does some deep hooking into xserver
<ogra_> omap4 or omap ?
<mlankhorst> omap4
<ogra_> i dont think the binary blobs work
<mlankhorst> it's just the xserver part that matters
<ogra_> they likelly just need a recompilation gainst the new abi
<ogra_> but there is nobody working with us who could do that
<ogra_> and it might need kernel changes which we will not do
<ogra_> (iirc the latter was the blocker)
<tjaalton> it's not using the blob now?
<ogra_> it is
<ogra_> a quantal blob with a quantal kernel
<tjaalton> on raring?
<ogra_> and there is no intention to update either afiak
<ogra_> yes
<tjaalton> so much for backport stacks then :/
<ogra_> kernel and blob are supposed to stay the same until we can drop the image
<tjaalton> when is that?
<ogra_> well, feel free to backport/forward port the 1700 patches the TI kernel ships
<tjaalton> no, I'd drop it asap :)
<ogra_> tjaalton, i wish i knew ... likely once we dont need any testing of xorg apps on arm anymore
<tjaalton> who runs those now?
<tjaalton> or needs
<tjaalton> on saucy anyway
<ogra_> convergence
<mlankhorst> ogra_: so why not simply do the same as we are doing for precise, and offer a quantal xserver for pandaboard too
<mlankhorst> if we already do that for the kernel anyway
<ogra_> you should probably talk to slangasek about that
<mlankhorst> assuming -ignoreABI doesn't work
<mlankhorst> but I'm upgrading to 1.14 now to find out :-)
<ogra_> :)
<Mirv> seb128: thanks!
<seb128> Mirv, hey, yw ;-)
<pitti> bonjour seb128, Ã§a va ?
<seb128> pitti, salut, oui, et toi ?
<pitti> seb128: mieux qu'hier, merci
<pitti> no fever any more, and jetleg by and large gone
<xclaesse> argh, I enabled the gnome3-team (and staging) ppa, now gnome-terminal's menu bar is back to the window instead of in unity's panel
<xclaesse> probably because they have both an app menu and a window menubar
<xclaesse> which makes no sense... :(
<didrocks> xclaesse: yeah, you shouldn't use this ppa if you want a working unity session
<didrocks> xclaesse: we didn't include all the latest components for some reasonsâ¦ :)
<xclaesse> so far it is the only slightly annoying bug I see :)
<seb128> pitti, great
<mlankhorst> ogra_: seems to start and composite when I recompiled xf86-video-omap and added -ignoreABI to load the blob part
<ogra_> ah, sounds good
<ogra_> see if it crashes after a while though :)
<mlankhorst> ideally we could get a recompile though, nothing majorly was reworked but some internal structs did get shuffled around
<mlankhorst> hm first crash when I was changing backgrounds, I'll try unmodified since it wasn't that stable before I upgraded to begin with
<Laney> seb128: hey, how's it going? do we have a BP for the settings work? and a current one for user session stuff?
<seb128> Laney, hey, I'm good, thanks. How are you?
<seb128> had a good trip back?
<Laney> aching!
<Laney> the trip was good, then I slept lots and then went climbing yesterday :-)
<Laney> out at a quarry nearby
<seb128> hehe, some exercice is good to kick the remaining bits of jetlag out :p
<seb128> Laney, blueprints:
<seb128> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/client-s-use-upstart-user-sessions
<seb128> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/client-touch-system-settings
<seb128>  
<seb128> they are pretty empty atm
<Laney> sure, just wanted to make sure they were there
<Laney> merci
<seb128> I'm not sure yet how to really populate the settings one, we are sort of blocked on having the container app usable to be able to test things
<seb128> but that doesn't stop us to play with qml meanwhile
<Laney> well, currently we need to get up to speed on qml/sdk anyway
<seb128> right
<darkxst> Hey seb128, Laney
<Laney> hi darkxst
<Laney> how's it going?
<darkxst> ah good, enjoying the cold weather! not so good for climbing though ;)
<Laney> cold? :(
<darkxst> well Melbourne cold about 13 today
<Laney> ah, yeah, suppose it's getting on into autumn there
<Laney> should be up to 21 here today which is pretty good for the time of year
<darkxst> yeh I think we are back to mid 20's for the rest of the week
<darkxst> anyway, pitti wasn't too keen on the idea of adding another api to packagekit for l-s
<Laney> did you speak to upstream?
<darkxst> pk upstream?
<pitti> well, "get available locales" isn't really package specific
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> or gcc
<pitti> it might fit into accountsservice slightly better
<pitti> but I think it should just go into g-c-c's region panel
<pitti> instead of depending on a new API which hasn't even been discussed/accepted upstream yet
<Laney> well I was expecting it to be discussed upstream first
<Laney> don't really care where it lives - just the initial idea of an l-s API seemed the wrong level
<Laney> not upstreamable at all
<darkxst> Laney, I seriously doubt g-c-c would take that language stuff either way
<Laney> yeah?
<darkxst> they wanted to add a button "install languages"
<pitti> they have had designs for that for quite a while
<darkxst> I don't know if those designs were actually approved?
<darkxst>  I guess the packagekit stuff (what-provides etc) would be ok, but I don't think they will take any of the ubuntu specific langugae changes
<pitti> but that isn't an ubuntu specific problem
<darkxst> pitti, who else uses language packs?
<pitti> (neither figuring out the set of allowed locales, nor installing additional packages for a language)
<pitti> darkxst: all distros have extra packages that are language specific; this isn't limited to langpacks
<pitti> but anyway, "which packages do I need for language XX" is already provided by aptdaemon and PK
<pitti> (what-provides LANGUAGE_SUPPORT)
<darkxst> yes I am using that bit
<pitti> what we discussed yesterday was "which locales are available"
<pitti> which is essentially parsing and de-duping /usr/share/i18n/SUPPORTED
<pitti> or "locale -a" if you only want already installed locales
<darkxst> pitti, ok will do it that way
<Laney> neat
<pitti> l-s already does that in Python, so the logic exists already
<darkxst> I didnt really want to duplicate l-s logic, but if thats the best option then I will
<pitti> the l-s logic will go away at some point
<pitti> (i. e. when the g-c-c region panel is functional enough)
<darkxst> ok
<xclaesse> seb128, didrocks: dunno who packages empathy in ubuntu, but you guys probably wants to pick https://git.gnome.org/browse/empathy/commit/?id=add79d54e3c0149a2c336077d1e37c60d54c5ace
<seb128> xclaesse, thanks
<seb128> xclaesse, is that bug #1177285 ?
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1177285 in gnome-online-accounts (Ubuntu) "gnome-control-center crashes on fill_contact_info_grid: assertion failed: (spec != NULL) after few seconds after opening online accounts " [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1177285
<xclaesse> the commit is in master & 3.8 because we don't support older versions
<xclaesse> but all versions are affected
<xclaesse> 3.6 crash as well
<xclaesse> seb128, exactly that crash
<seb128> xclaesse, good, it was on my list of things to look at since we received some reports about it
<seb128> xclaesse, thanks for the ping ;-)
<xclaesse> seb128, the reason is that gabble hardcode vcard fields supported by Google (fn, n and photo) but recently google decided to add url
<xclaesse> so another fix will arrive in gabble as well, but empathy shouldn't crash even if gabble does something wrong :)
<seb128> right
<seb128> xclaesse, does it apply to 3.4 as well? (that's the current lts version)
<xclaesse> seb128, probably, I tested only with 3.8 and Guillaume tested with 3.6
<seb128> ok, I will have a look
<seb128> thanks
<mlankhorst> seb128: forcing pandaboard with -ignoreABI on 1.14 seems to be unstable, but it works if I run with the franken xserver we were using for testing tegra against 1.14, so we could do a custom xserver-xorg-core package to keep pandaboard working
<xclaesse> hm
<xclaesse> 3.4 does not have libempathy-gtk/empathy-user-info.c
<xclaesse> code was moved, let me check
<seb128> mlankhorst, nice, well I guess it's up to you (xorg team) to figure out what solution you prefer, hold on the xorg update or find a workaround like that
<ogra_> well, talk to security too
<ogra_> they will have to care for it for 9 months
<mlankhorst> the xserver package will be identical, it will just have an extra patch to revert to the old ABI.
<mlankhorst> it would be similar to what we were doing with -lts-quantal rename
<xclaesse> seb128, not tested, but that should fix the bug in 3.4: http://cgit.collabora.com/git/user/xclaesse/empathy.git/commit/?h=backport&id=d015077538b66554ed75194a47446b84d8081769
<seb128> xclaesse, thanks
<mlankhorst> seb128: but if upstream essentially doesn't maintain the omap drivers any more, does it really matter whether xserver receives any security updates?
<ogra_> mlankhorst, well, if x86 recieves a security update, arm shoould at least not ftbfs
<mlankhorst> it won't
<seb128> mlankhorst, I'm not too concerned about the security issues for that specific image
<mlankhorst> it will be an extra package, like xorg-server-lts-quantal was
<ogra_> given we use a binary copy of a quantal kernel anyway, i doubt secutiry matters, it only matters if your change adds work for the security team when applying fixes in general
<ogra_> extra paackage ?
<mlankhorst> doing the same thing for tegra would cause it to break, so I think it's better just to add a different xserver that is omap specific only
<ogra_> for tegra there are updated drivers
<mlankhorst> yeah that's what I mean, and there is already a script to do just that renaming in an automated fashion :)
<ogra_> (we just have to update the package)
<mlankhorst> so if the omap install image just adds xorg-omap, and xserver-xorg-core-omap, things would work
<ogra_> if you can handle that on a package level that would be fine
<ogra_> special casing seeds for a single subarch isnt really an option
<mlankhorst> yeah I never intended that
<seb128> Laney, pitti: since the logind updates, my screensaver doesn't unlock from lightdm
<seb128> is that a known issue?
<seb128> like if I start a guest session, logout from it, I'm back to unity-greeter, I enter my user password, that sends me to my session but screen is still locked
<seb128> before that was sending me back to an unlocked session
<Nafallo> seb128: two-factor auth, sort of ;-)
<Nafallo> making sure you remember your password :-P
<seb128> double single factor != double factor :p
<Nafallo> it's an anti-aging device.
<Nafallo> heh, I know. I've got quadruple auth in most places, as it is :-)
<mlankhorst> ogra_: is it also possible to do an image with a PPA pinned to a higher priority so it will always grab the xserver from there instead of main archive?
<ogra_> mlankhorst, PPAs are no option for official images
<Nafallo> fingerprint, password, yubikey server and google auth :-)
<mlankhorst> aw too bad
<ogra_> (might change but until now that was a TB policy)
<pitti> seb128: yeah, needs an upload of lightdm; it works for me (running lightdm from the PPA)
<seb128> pitti, ok, as long as it's known, thanks
<pitti> yes, it is
<mlankhorst> ogra_: in that case rename is the only option then :/
<pitti> seb128: actually, it's in the u-desktop PPA: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/ppa/+build/4535913
<seb128> pitti, nice, will try that, danke!
<Laney> pitti: actually it's in proposed
<Laney> I didn't notice it hadn't migrated though - let me check why that is
<Laney> seb128: ^
<seb128> Laney, thanks
<Laney> hrm
<seb128> Laney, looking at the changelog I guess lightdm-kde-greeter needs to be rebuilt with the new soname?
<Laney> yeah, on it
<seb128> cool
<Laney> bah BAH
<Laney> lightdm has a versioned dev package
<Laney> ...and the new pcfile is bugged
<seb128> Sweetshark, qengho, Laney, mlankhorst, tkamppeter, attente, desrt: hey, it's meeting time
<mlankhorst> g'day mate
<seb128> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2013-05-07
<attente> hey
<seb128> I hope all those who were in Oakland had an ok trip back
<seb128> slight change of format this week, we start by the "desktop platform/apps" subteam and didrocks will handle the second part of the meeting of the ps integration part
<seb128> let's get started
<seb128> Sweetshark, hey, there?
<mlankhorst> so I'm excused? :p
<desrt> seb128: we're seriously having a meeting today?
<seb128> mlankhorst, no, xorg is part of the desktop platform :p
<desrt> so we can all update on what we did during our swap day? :)
<didrocks> mlankhorst: nice try btw ;)
<mlankhorst> well was worth a shot!
<seb128> desrt, well, you can do a public update of what you got done during the sprint ;-)
<desrt> fair enough.
<seb128> community was not there
<qengho> I wasn't either!
<seb128> ok, no Sweetshark, he's working from California this week so I'm not sure he's online yet
<seb128> qengho, hey
<desrt> speaking of those working from cali
<desrt> larsu: ping
<larsu> desrt: yep?!
<seb128> qengho, you missed some fun ;-)
<qengho> seb128: so, I don't know what I'm supposed to say this time.  New format, eh?
<desrt> larsu: go wake up Sweetshark :)
<desrt> oh -- and desktop team meeting
<Laney> same content, just a different split I think
<seb128> qengho, the status update format didn't change, we just do split subteam for the order
<seb128> didrocks' also wanted to change a bit the format for ps integration to go by topic rather than people
<qengho> I worked on chromium-browser.  Trying to get more system libraries into the build so that it links on 32-bit hardware.  Testing the various combinations.
<seb128> but that apply less to us since most of our topic have only 1 person working on them
<seb128> e.g chromium, libreoffice, ...
 * Laney goes
<seb128> qengho, thanks
<Laney> â¢ logind transitions, a lot of them. The archive is almost complete (everything ported or with a consolekit dep added)
<qengho> Oh, I packaged libv8 too.  It should be useful to others ere.
<qengho> here.
<Laney> â¢ gstreamer 1.0.7 uploaded
<Laney> â¢ Clearing my outstanding merges (3 left)
<Laney> â¢ Just right now discovered that lightdm's qt pcfile is broken, so switched to fixing that. It's needed to fix lightdm-kde, which blocks lightdm from transitioning currently.
<Laney> â¢ Next up: think about blueprints for UDS, if any, and start looking at QML.
<Laney> \0
<seb128> Laney, thanks
<seb128> mlankhorst, hey
<mlankhorst> I've been putting some work in plymouth-mir, works but no input support yet, further work is postponed until mir api becomes more complete. Investigation into upgrading to 1.14, more testing for touch bug 56578. Preparing upload of lts-raring to precise-proposed.
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 56578 in mlview (Ubuntu) "Please sync mlview (universe) from unstable" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/56578
<mlankhorst> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=56578
<Laney> is panda back from the dead now?
<mlankhorst> I'm going to do a lts-style rename for panda xserver + xf86-vido-omap
<ubot2`> Freedesktop bug 56578 in Server/Input/Core "race condition with active/passive grabs when opening menus with touch" [Normal,Assigned]
<mlankhorst> it seems to be stable with the abi reverts I was using for testing tegra touch
<seb128> great
<seb128> mlankhorst, thanks
<mlankhorst> np, off to the store, bbs
<seb128> tkamppeter, hey
<seb128> no tkamppeter?
<seb128> attente, hey
<attente> seb128, hi
<attente> more gnome-control-center region panel patching, getting the keyboard indicator to work in the panel, debugging autopilot test cases in unity-gtk-module
<attente> this week, wrap up two items related to indicator-keyboard, then start to port it to Ubuntu touch
<desrt> attente: did you get the module landed finally?
<attente> desrt, no not yet
<desrt> one of these days... :)
<seb128> attente, did you get the tests to run?
<attente> ha.. yeah..
<attente> seb128, yeah
<attente> it turned out they were failing because of the keyboard indicator :S
<seb128> what is blocking landing then? only waiting on the #ps integration team?
<attente> we still have patched versions of gtk
<attente> in archive
<seb128> right, well that's a chicken egg problem :p
<attente> this is true..
<attente> who should i talk to about this?
<seb128> the unity-gtk-module doesn't need to an unpatched gtk to land, does it?
<seb128> well, if you think things are ready from your side, let's just ask didrocks/cyphermox in the second part of the meeting
<seb128> or sil2100
<attente> ok
<seb128> I think it's up to them to land the source
<seb128> your indicator-appmenu mr got approved
<didrocks> sil2100 would know
<seb128> then we just need to drop the gtk patches
<didrocks> he wrote some notes that he had to revert it
<seb128> attente, thanks
<didrocks> so better to check once he's back :)
<seb128> didrocks, right, he said it was due to autopilot 1.3 breaking compat or something
<didrocks> yep
<seb128> let's discuss it later
<seb128> desrt, your turn ;-)
<desrt> so i spent a lot of last week recovering from a sunburn
<desrt> but not as bad as seb128
<seb128> lol, I'm good again no worry ;-)
<desrt> while that was going on, i mostly finished the GtkMenuTracker which will be used as the basis of all consumer implementations of GMenuModel (gtk, gtk-on-mac, unity-gtk, unity-qml and gnome-shell)
<desrt> also, at kenvandine's request i started working on a qmlscene-type program based on GApplication.... that was a bit frustrating, but i got some pretty good ideas from it
<desrt> which led me towards a conversation with thomas and thomas about how actions will work in unity apps -- and bumped GActionDescription way up my priority list: going to start working on that soon
<desrt> also had more conversations about our C APIs.....
<desrt> finally, landed the suspend support in systemd-shim, removing the logind depend on pm-utils and breaking everyone's laptop's suspend in the process
<desrt> gonna try to fix that up today :)
<desrt> (fin)
<seb128> desrt, did you manage to reproduce the second suspend issue?
<seb128> it does it in a reliable way here
<seb128> second suspend -> suspend not working the second time
<desrt> no
<desrt> it's always working for me
<seb128> hum, k
<desrt> from the session indicator, right?
<seb128> let me know if you need details
<seb128> yes
<desrt> i'm pretty sure it's a race
<seb128> on a  32bit install (if that makes a difference)
<desrt> like, a signal getting emitted before it is being watched for on the client side
<desrt> and then it gets missed
<desrt> i'm reading code and pinging lennart -- the dbus protocol is slightly underspecified in this area
<pitti> seb128: do you have indicator-session from trunk? (the logind-ified one)?
<desrt> one of those 'specification by sole implementation' (systemd) things
<seb128> pitti, no, I've stock saucy
<pitti> actually, it hit saucy 18 minutes ago, thanks cyphermox
<seb128> oh, nice, will try that
<desrt> pitti: should this fix it, then?
<seb128> well the interface it's using works the first time
<pitti> I don't know -- suspend is always working here
<seb128> so it's not totally incompatible with logind
<desrt> tre interesa
<pitti> it talks to upower, so I guess that "already pending" error might actually come from upower
<pitti> (we had a case like that last week)
<Laney> I just tried double (triple) suspending, worked every time
<Laney> so yeah, try the new i-session and see what happens
<seb128> you guys all run indicator-session from trunk?
<seb128> ok
<desrt> seb128: update to the new indicator and let me know.  could be there is actually no issue at all here.
<seb128> will do after the meeting
<seb128> desrt, thanks
<seb128> ok, did I forget anyone?
<seb128> otherwise my summary:
<seb128>  * quite some discussions at the sprint, mostly focussed on trying to figure out the details for indicators and system settings
<seb128>  * looked at cleaning some of the deprecated libs from our current images, also reviewed what is still using python2
<seb128>  * started merges on debian
<seb128>  * some blueprint work
<seb128>  * updated gtk 3.8.1 in the ppa, trying to get that ready for saucy
<seb128> cyphermox fixed the overlay-scrollbar issue so we are getting close
<Laney> oh wow, he did?
<Laney> good job
<seb128> yes
<larsu> wow, thanks cyphermox!
<seb128> https://code.launchpad.net/~mathieu-tl/overlay-scrollbar/fix-second-use/+merge/162507
<seb128> needs a review/approval still
<cyphermox> yup
<seb128> but I verified locally, it works for me (and gtk 3.6 still works fine)
<seb128> </summary>
<seb128> ok
<seb128> otherwise, small not before ending the first part of the meeting
<seb128> note
<seb128> Sweetshark, qengho, Laney, mlankhorst, tkamppeter, attente, desrt, didrocks, kenvandine, cyphermox, Mirv, others: vUDS is next week, if you have any session you want to have (or that you think others should have), please register a blueprint and get it targetted for the uds sprint
<cyphermox> ack
<kenvandine> ack
<seb128> would be good to also chase other teams so they register blueprints if needed
 * desrt will probably be away this week
<Mirv> ackie
<sil2100> o/
<seb128> desrt, you were not going to register a session anyway I guess? ;-)
<seb128> sil2100, hey
<desrt> seems unlikely :)
 * desrt could go hang out with cyphermox for mini-ubz
<seb128> on the note of people being away, please try to deal with blueprints for vUDS today if you can
<seb128> quite some people are off starting tonight for the end of week
<seb128> national holidays wed&thursday and swap days from last week
<didrocks> seb128: I don't have anything really important to discuss at vUDS anyway
<didrocks> so rather waiting for people inviting :)
<seb128> didrocks, ok
<Laney> wed AND thurs!
<didrocks> (if needed)
<Laney> you french!
<seb128> on that note, we are just on time for second half of the meeting
<didrocks> ok, maybe let's start the second part of the meeting :)
<sil2100> seb128: ok, will deal with my blueprint-related things later today
<seb128> if nobody has comments or questions
<seb128> comments/questions?
<seb128> sil2100, thanks
<seb128> ok, seems not
<didrocks> cyphermox, Mirv, sil2100, kenvandine, robru: hey guys! hope that you trip back went well :)
<didrocks> your*
<seb128> didrocks, your turn
<didrocks> let's go over the important topics from https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuDk72Lpx8U5dHFtUmlPOUtCRk8zR2dtaEpIbUVhMmc#gid=0
<sil2100> I thought I would get crazy during my trip back though, never again!
<didrocks> do not forget to update it btw as it's our communication guide :)
<sil2100> Ok
<Mirv> yeah, never again, as always when crossing the Atlantic. but alive, so "well" :)
<didrocks> heh
<didrocks> as a reminder, I won't be there until next Tuesday
<didrocks> so I will surely put some of the tasks assigned to me on you guys :)
<didrocks> ok, let's start
<sil2100> No problem ;)
<didrocks> robru: "Splitting webapps and have that on daily release"
<didrocks> with kenvandine's help
<didrocks> I saw some good progress
<didrocks> seems we still have some issue to get fixed, right?
<didrocks> â¦no robru? ok, we pushed back the meeting for him. I hope that next week he'll be there on time at leastâ¦ (the meeting is quite late for some people like Mirv, starting early)
<didrocks> kenvandine: around?
<robru> hey, just woke up, sorry
<kenvandine> yup
<didrocks> robru: just in time! :-)
<didrocks> robru: hope you have some coffee ;)
<didrocks> robru: so, what's up on webapps?
<robru> almost ;-)
<robru> didrocks, I have branches pushed to fix most things.
<Mirv> 12h since I started my work day :)
<robru> didrocks, the only thing I can't fix is twitter, need alex abreu to write a manifest.json fro it
<didrocks> robru: ok, let's see how it goes ;) are you confident to get it in with autopilot tests for next week?
<robru> didrocks, there's an issue with jenkins not having the build-dep in thePPA so it complains of rules.mk again
<didrocks> yeah, I commented on the MP, ping vrruiz for it I guess
<robru> not too confident with autopilot, not sure the status of it. seems incomplete/bitrotten. but the linter script I wrote can detect basic issues ;-)
<robru> and it can be expanded to detect new issues as we find them
<didrocks> robru: ok, let's try at least without autopilot for next week :)
<didrocks> next topic is disabling indicators, this is done cyphermox, isn't it?
<cyphermox> yup, done
<didrocks> do you mind updating the spreadsheet?
<didrocks> next one is finishing the doc when putting S in distro, cyphermox, can you please send me an email with your notes so that I can update it?
<cyphermox> I was thinking we should finish all of it before
<cyphermox> but sure, I'll send what I have now
<didrocks> cyphermox: ok, if this week, some are needed, like unity and so on, do you mind giving a hand to the person doing it?
<didrocks> as I won't be around :)
<didrocks> cyphermox: if so, writing the doc next week is fine to me
<cyphermox> well I can send what I alreday have now, then we'll add whatever else
<didrocks> sure :)
<didrocks> thanks cyphermox
<didrocks> I finally found time to do the Vcs-Bzr ignoring + collecting commits for all mainline commits \o/
<didrocks> (some part was on the plane, not at the bar :p)
<cyphermox> awesome.
<didrocks> I'll archive it
<didrocks> (see second tab)
<didrocks> sil2100: hey! touch building in next ppa, what's the status?
<sil2100> hmm
<sil2100> Hard to say, since there wasn't much things I knew since I le
<sil2100> *I left the sprint
<Mirv> I wonder if I should have the Qt/SDK stuff as a separate item
<didrocks> Mirv: would make sense, please, feel free to edit
<sil2100> Mirv: ^
<didrocks> Mirv: kenvandine: did you look at that since Friday?
<Mirv> platform seems fine, but still hitting utah with sdk
<Mirv> for my part
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> all the web cred bits are there for touch
<kenvandine> according to the spread sheet, it's basically all done
<sil2100> I would say all what is left is the e-mail probably, but will have to double check the stacks to be sure
<sil2100> And then just the e-mail
<didrocks> sil2100: Mirv: kenvandine: so for next week, do you mind finishing the autopilot 1.3 transition (with robru I guess) in all stacks and having everything delivered in next? UTAH should feel a little better from what I know
<sil2100> I can do that later as well, if didrocks wouldn't be around
<sil2100> ACK
<kenvandine> didrocks, it wasn't better this morning :/
<didrocks> sil2100: yeah, just take the item and discuss between you guys :)
<didrocks> kenvandine: hum, let me check we don't dist-upgrade anymore
<robru> didrocks, hey, is it true that one failing webapp stops the whole webapps stack from being published?
<didrocks> kenvandine: we don't dist-upgrade anymore, mind checking with the QA guys?
<didrocks> robru: right, it's "per stack"
<didrocks> robru: the stack is validated or rejected
<kenvandine> didrocks, who should i talk to?
<didrocks> that's why the stack should be own by the same team
<Mirv> om26er has many autopilot 1.3 branches at https://code.launchpad.net/~om26er
<didrocks> kenvandine: ping on #qa gema or anyone in the QA team
<robru> didrocks, any way to change that? there are 40 webapps and any one of them is likely to be broken at some point... we really need to be able to release them independently. that was the whole point of splitting them, so we can release only the ones that need fixes...
<didrocks> robru: well, then, the team need to fix them :) it will only rebuild those having changes, if they are broken, they need to be fixed
<didrocks> robru: we are validating the whole stack in integration tests
<robru> didrocks, ok, but it doesn't really make sense to hold back the whole stack just because one minor/obscure one is broken.
<didrocks> Mirv: ah, nice! so it's just a question of tracking if they are merged
<didrocks> robru: well, that's working quite fine for most of the stacks, as they are owned by the same team, we can divides stack, but as it worked for the past 6 months, I'm not keen on that
<robru> didrocks, it's not like these are critical libs where one broken one breaks the whole experience; users are only likely to care about a few of the 40 apps, better to get them "all the working ones" and only hold back the broken ones
<didrocks> robru: maybe you want to discuss that during vUDS? would be a good topic, but all the original design is based on that. I'm surprised you didn't get it before :)
<didrocks> robru: if we don't support or care on what we deliver, we should remove the app
<kenvandine> robru, the issue is if one app fails the tests, it could be because of a regression in libunity-webapps that the other webapps don't use
<robru> didrocks, well the situation before was that all webapps in one branch meant you had to re-release all of them every time you wanted to fix just one of them. I thought the *whole point* of what i was working on all last week was to split them up into *independent* branches so they could be released *independently*.
<kenvandine> like maybe webapp-foo is the only webapp that uses feature A from libunity-webapps
<didrocks> robru: yeah, if you have one fix somewhere, it will release only this fix
<kenvandine> we shouldn't let libunity-webapps get publshed
<didrocks> robru: instead of pushing 40 binary packages to distro, only one being changed
<didrocks> for instance
<sil2100> robru: it's just the case of integration tests failing - if integration tests are failing, it means the failure will be visible to the user
<sil2100> So that's why it has to be done so I think
<didrocks> in practice, this is working way better than what you may think, and forcing us to deliver all working components
<robru> sil2100, no integration tests on webapps yet ;-)
<sil2100> robru: boo... ;(
<didrocks> robru: well, they are, but not activated yet :)
<didrocks> robru: we can discuss that at vUDS if you want to open a session on it
<didrocks> let's go to next topic
<robru> didrocks, ok, but it doesn't make sense to me that AngryBirds app (which is basically a stub, it has no features) can be broken, and this holds back important ones like GMail or amazon
<didrocks> robru: well, we can fix AngryBirds then
<didrocks> that would make more sense to me, as we know exactly the day it broke
<robru> didrocks, well it broke from the beginning :-P
<didrocks> robru: it should have never been broken :p
<didrocks> or never published if broken
<robru> didrocks, alright, then I might push a branch disabling some apps then.
<didrocks> robru: sounds good to me
<didrocks> I guess the rest of the list is under control and linked to the previous discussion (basically having autopilot 1.3 transition done, touch published to next ppa, get everything green, check with qa on UTAH)
<didrocks> isn't it?
<didrocks> sil2100: kenvandine: Mirv: you are mainly the ones holding those actions ^
<kenvandine> the utah errors are cobbler failures
<kenvandine> yeah
<Mirv> about so
<sil2100> Yes
<didrocks> kenvandine: ok, so UTAH is using cobbler wrongly again, need to get them fixing itâ¦ :/
<didrocks> so, now, some new incoming work for fun :)
<didrocks> unity raring SRU
<kenvandine> i just asked them
<didrocks> Mirv: do you have time for that one? Basically delivering a SRU for raring with current unity raring
<sil2100> Mirv: weren't you working on that? ^
<didrocks> Mirv: it's about checking that the bugs are fine
<sil2100> Ah, raring!
<sil2100> Duuuh
 * sil2100 keeps confusing raring and precise
<didrocks> and make a manual publishing if everything all right :)
<Mirv> yeah, I've also the precise SRU waiting for a patch pilot :)
<didrocks> as it's builed daily in the daily-build ppa
<Mirv> didrocks: I don't yet have a touch on the practicalities of the delivery
<Mirv> otherwise I'm fine with checking
<didrocks> Mirv: yeah, no need for a patch pilot for this one :) just having kenvandine or cyphermox doing the manual publication for you
<didrocks> Mirv: so look at the ~ubuntu-unity/daily-build ppa for the indicators and unity stacks
<kenvandine> Mirv, let me know when it's ready
<didrocks> look at the generated changelogs
<Mirv> ok, will do
<didrocks> bugs associated
<didrocks> and hop! upload if things are following SRU rules :)
<kenvandine> i'm on pilot duty tomorrow :)
<didrocks> (upload being manual publishing)
<didrocks> so should be easy ;)
<kenvandine> but i'll be out tomorrow morning, so just email me
<Mirv> sounds like a good list
<didrocks> Mirv: with luck utah would run and you will get test results even! :)
<didrocks> Mirv: mind adding it yourself to the spreadsheet?
<robru> didrocks, can you tell a little bit about how/when we plan to transition from PPA to start releasing directly into saucy?
<sil2100> We just remove the dest PPA from the configs
<sil2100> IIRC
<didrocks> robru: I guess we have enough for this week with the touch to have it built in next
<didrocks> robru: so I thought about next week, wdyt?
<Mirv> didrocks: ok, done
<kenvandine> wfm
<didrocks> thanks Mirv :)
<robru> didrocks, well, I don't know what the status of the other stacks is like, but Friends as released for raring has a really horrible crasher bug in saucy due to some library API breakage, so I have a fix that I want released into saucy quite urgently ;-)
<didrocks> kenvandine: cyphermox: sil2100: Mirv: robru: a small note, it seems the cu2d-* command doesn't work since they restarted jenkins, cyphermox will check with qa about it, meanwhile, use the web UI.
<kenvandine> ok
<Mirv> didrocks: I don't have the access rights still there
<sil2100> ACK :)
<cyphermox> yeah, just wiating to hear back about it
<didrocks> robru: ok, for that one, you can get in touch with cyphermox, he knows how to transition (quite simple, but better to pair) :)
<didrocks> robru: and let's transition friends to be saucy! :)
<didrocks> Mirv: yeah, the request is pending (but people on holidays)
<cyphermox> hmm,, sauce.
<robru> didrocks, cyphermox so it's possible to just do friends direct to saucy without affecting other stacks?
<Mirv> didrocks: ok, thanks
<didrocks> robru: it is :)
<cyphermox> robru: assuming it doesn't need other pieces of the stack, yes it should
<didrocks> as cyphermox did with indicators
<didrocks> ok, last but not leastâ¦ (sorry, have a lot this week)
<didrocks> sil2100: it's for you!
<sil2100> ?!
<didrocks> sil2100: so, mhr3 wants to get 100scopes merged back to saucy unity trunk
<sil2100> !!
<didrocks> sil2100: so just sync with him, you will have to disable the experimental stack once done and add to head/unity.cfg the scopes
<mhr3> sil2100, piece of cake, right? :)
<sil2100> Is it *ready*? Since I didn't look at it for a while, and PaweÅ told me during the sprint about some regression they were trying to fix in unity
<sil2100> didrocks: ok, will do ;)
<didrocks> just target "next" for this week, we'll go over the sauce next week :)
<robru> cyphermox, I guess this is what I need: https://code.launchpad.net/~robru/cupstream2distro-config/friends-saucy/+merge/162712
<didrocks> sil2100: yeah, it is from what I know of :)
<didrocks> robru: you need to change ppa to  ubuntu-unity/daily-build and remove the "dest" line
<cyphermox> robru: yeah, just wiating for the updated diff
<sil2100> didrocks: ok, I'll add it to the spreadsheet
<cyphermox> didrocks: ^ cf. diff
<didrocks> cyphermox: ah nice! :)
<didrocks> sil2100: thanks a bunch (and good luck) :)
<cyphermox> actually
<cyphermox> robru:  ppa: ubuntu-unity/daily-build-next  should remove -next
<didrocks> cyphermox: good catch!
<didrocks> ok, I don't think we need everyone to stay to transition friends to saucy, any question before wrapping up?
<cyphermox> not from me
<cyphermox> robru: let's get this finished, I'm starving :)
<robru> cyphermox, just pushed it
<didrocks> thanks Mirv, sil2100, robru, cyphermox, kenvandine :) see you next week (and don't break everything meanwhile :p)
<cyphermox> ok
<robru> didrocks, thanks
<kenvandine> didrocks, enjoy!
<sil2100> didrocks: ok! Have a nice holiday!
<didrocks> thanks ;) good luck guys!
<Mirv> thank you :)
<sil2100> didrocks: and see you next week as well, we'll be informing you about the progress probably during that time anyway ;)
<didrocks> sil2100: think about updating the spreadsheet, best way to communicate!
<seb128> heh
<seb128> didrocks, sil2100: what's the status of the gtk unity menu landing?
<didrocks> yeah, now that the meeting is over, let's go on that one :)
<didrocks> sil2100: you wrote "We're reverting the addition now since it would basically break unity"
<didrocks> sil2100: what did you mean?
<robru> cyphermox, wow, that diff just doesn't want to update on launchpad. I promise I fixed it though
<cyphermox> yup, looks good
<cyphermox> robru: do you have all the same commits in raring as in trunk for friends?
<cyphermox> yeah, looking good
<cyphermox> I think as soon as didrocks wants to stamp it, it's good :)
<cyphermox> didrocks: you're in the review list, wanna just approve it or whatever?
<robru> and then can somebody redeploy it and everything? I need to get this fix out asap ;-)
<didrocks> cyphermox: I trust you, do you think I should look at it? (the discussion is enough for me to say "ok")
<cyphermox> no
<didrocks> cyphermox: so go ahead ;)
<cyphermox> it's just that you're in reviewers somehow ;)
<didrocks> robru: tired of getting crash reports? :p
<cyphermox> robru: yeah. just waiting for it to get merged
<robru> didrocks, we had three separate bugs reported just for this one thing. I wish people would stop reporting duplicate bugs.
<cyphermox> robru: well..
<robru> didrocks, best was that the guy who reported the third such bug went back and marked the two *older* ones as duplicates of *his*.
<cyphermox> we kind of encourage them to report duplicate bugs and have us dedup, rather than mixing things up
<cyphermox> heh
<didrocks> robru: ahah, because "mine" is more important :)
<robru> launchpad should know to prefer the oldest bugs by default when duplicates are being marked ;-)
<cyphermox> Mirv: also, I'm patch pilot today, so I can help you ;)
<robru> kenvandine, https://code.launchpad.net/~robru/friends/fix-threads-init/+merge/162692 can you approve this? trivial fix for a critical crasher in saucy
<kenvandine> robru, done
<robru> kenvandine, thanks
<robru> alright, so now it's time for breakfast. back in a few ;-)
<didrocks> FYI, utah just passed on the 100scopes thingy
<didrocks> so there is hope for the touch stack! :)
<didrocks> robru: enjoy ;)
<attente> sil2100, hey
<cyphermox> robru: no rest API makes it a little difficult to even update the jobs...
<cyphermox> as soon as retoaded fixes that I'll update the jobs and we'll be able to release
<didrocks> cyphermox: I've quickly rewritten https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DailyRelease/MovingNewRelease#Step_two:_once_release.2B-1_is_opened, feel free to edit it
<didrocks> cyphermox: I've archived the disabling indicators as well as it's done
<cyphermox> ok
 * didrocks waves good evening, see you next week!
<cyphermox> robru: ok, stuff is updated!
<cyphermox> robru: so everything is ready for friends to be landing?
<sil2100> attente: hi! Today I'm off, but let's talk tomorrow if it's not a problem
<sil2100> attente: in the meantime - https://code.launchpad.net/~sil2100/unity-gtk-module/minor_ap_fixes/+merge/162851
<sil2100> attente: in what timezone are you?
<attente> sil2100, ah, sorry, wasn't aware
<attente> i'm UTC-0500
<attente> er. i guess UTC-0400
<sil2100> attente: ok, so let's talk tomorrow :) Since I need to go now sadly
<sil2100> See you then!
<attente> sil2100, this looks good, thanks!
<cyphermox> robru: friends started.
<robru> cyphermox, yeah, everything is ready! thanks
<Sweetshark> tedg, larsu: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=64115 <- tricky one, do you know of any relevant fixes as candidates to be SRUed for precise?
<ubot2`> Freedesktop bug 64115 in UI ": UI: menus are not dynamically changing under unity" [Normal,Needinfo]
<robru> cyphermox, still around?
<cyphermox> yeah
<cyphermox> robru: watching friends build
<robru> cyphermox, https://code.launchpad.net/~robru/cupstream2distro-config/disable-broken-apps/+merge/162858 these two apps fail the stack and shouldn't, so I'm disabling them until one of the webapps developers can fix them.
<cyphermox> ack
<robru> now to fix twitter... ;-)
<cyphermox> ;)
<tedg> Sweetshark, Interesting, I guess we need to know if it's only on Precise.
<tedg> Sweetshark, We didn't change that much in indicator-appmenu for raring except to pull out HUD to it's own package.
<tedg> Sweetshark, Added myself to CC
<Sweetshark> tedg: thx
<danilos> jasoncwarner, hi, jam has a problem with his unity after upgrade; who can help him out since both seb128 and didrocks are asleep?
<desrt> mterry: hey.  is there any way to get deja-dup to run a hook script pre-backup?
<robru> desrt, I bet the new upstart user sessions could be configured to run something right when deja-dup starts
 * desrt wants it to run just before the backup starts, and for the backup to wait until it's done
<robru> desrt, in that case, why not port deja-dup to just use upstart for its backup scheduling? then it would be really easy ;-)
<desrt> that's actually a pretty good idea
<robru> I bet mike would appreciate it ;-)
 * desrt has devised a way to shrink his ~/code/ directory from ~6GB down to ~15M
<TheMuso> desrt: Let me guess. Delete it. :p
<desrt> basically, it's a mix of the following: use jhbuild dvcs_mirror with a directory in ~/.cache/
<desrt> and make use of alternates when cloning
<TheMuso> ah ok.
<desrt> then, write a command (i call 'git tuck') that does this:
<desrt> git stash -u
<desrt> git prune; git repack -a -d -l
<desrt> then nukes the working directory, keeping only the .git
<desrt> and erases the index too
<robru> wow. then what, you just check out what you need?
<desrt> basically this will remove any object that's in the upstream repository from the local git object db
<desrt> (ie: standard git-clone --reference type stuff)
<desrt> but the next biggest thing in a git repo is all of the unpacked files (99% of which are unmodified)
<robru> oh, I see, so you only keep the stuff you're working on, discarding whatever stuff has been accepted upstream
<desrt> so this does a stash -u to store any changes you might have and then throws everything away
<desrt> any local commits/branches you have are also saved
<desrt> that's the beauty of git repack -l
<desrt> it keeps only objects not found in the upstream repo
<robru> desrt, what if you want to check out an old commit for testing purposes (say, bisecting a bug?) do you have to redownload all the objects?
<desrt> well
<desrt> if you still have the stuff in ~/.cache then you're OK
<desrt> otherwise, yes, you have to download it again
<desrt> the purpose of this is to get everything into the minimum possible size for backups
<robru> desrt, I haven't paid much attention to disk usage in a long time, but my ~/src/ is only 1.1GB, so that's not bad. your trick won't work because mine's almost exclusively bzr.
<desrt> :(
<robru> desrt, good point. I personally don't see much value in backing up stuff that's already online, though. even my "local changes" are pushed to a branch somewhere.
<desrt> i often get into a situation where i'll build up a fair amount of local changes (due to hacking on a plane or something) that don't get pushed
<robru> yeah, gotta remember to push once you land ;-)
<desrt> and for projects that i hack seriously on i usually have reams of local branches
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-05-08
<mfisch> When doing merges of desktop packages via UDD do you guys typically set distoseries to UNRELEASED for the MP?
<RAOF> mfisch: If it's intended to land as-is, I'd set distroseries to saucy.
<mfisch> RAOF: okay. my team uses UNRELEASED to prevent dputting from non-trunk, so I was curious. Thanks
<RAOF> I use UNRELEASED for everything but the final dput, but when you're proposing a merge like that my view would be that you're doing a dput-by-proxy âº
<mterry> desrt, regarding your deja-dup hook script, no.
<desrt> mterry: i found an awesome way to compact git repos
<mterry> desrt, do tell
<mterry> desrt, ah, and you want that before backup
<desrt> mterry: yes.  precisely.
<desrt> shrank my ~6GB of ~/code/ into ~15M
<mterry> oh nice
<desrt> and being as ~/code/ is the largest thing i have outside of ~/.cache/ this has a rather substantial impact on running time for dejadup
<mterry> desrt, you could add a wrapper deja-dup script in ~/bin or something
<mterry> desrt, but no official support.  There is a feature request bug I think
<desrt> ya... i want something a bit nicer than that, i think
<desrt> i also don't exactly just want a hook
<desrt> i rather want a way to say "ya... this directory, let me give you some files to backup instead of what you find on the disk"
<mterry> desrt, eh.  You could point deja-dup at ~/SmallCode instead of ~/Code and use a hook to sync the two right before backup
<desrt> ya.  this is exactly what i was pondering
<desrt> then put ~/code/ on the ignore list...
<desrt> trouble is that not all stuff in ~/code/ is tuckable
<desrt> (i call this new thing 'git tuck')
<mterry> :)
<mterry> alright, got to go to bed
<desrt> ciao.
<pitti> Good morning
<Mirv> cyphermox: regarding the precise SRU patch piloting, I believe didrocks will want to do that as we have a history of doing that and he has the test document already
<sil2100> Morning!
<sil2100> Mirv: Im currently walking around the city looking for a place with free wifi
<sil2100> Since it seems this city doesnt like free wifi, and mc donnalds filters out everything non-http
<sil2100> But I see some hotspots I can try hacking into
<sil2100> I mean, connecting into
<Mirv> sil2100: :)
<Mirv> and morning
<Mirv> http should be enough for everybody (tm)
<Mirv> actually, using corkscrew and friends even just http + forced proxy is usually enough for everything I do
<sil2100> I would like to use irc normally, and while I use it locally, I would kike to have access to all the neat ports
<sil2100> I need a proxy, *sighs*
<lifeless> I need a hero?
<Laney> ahoy
<sil2100> Already have a question to didrocks, it's harder for me without him it seems ;)
<sil2100> Mirv: do you know by any chance if all of our build-next projects are using autopilot 1.3 already?
<sil2100> Mirv: since I noticed unity from the unity stack in Head was still using autopilot 1.2 strangely, even though our PPA already offers 1.3
<sil2100> (but it was fetching it from the archives instead)
<Mirv> (sil2100 gone, but merges still pending)
<pitti> Laney: ah, thanks for http://people.canonical.com/~laney/upower-dbus-usage
<Laney> np - it's a very dumb grep ATM though
<pitti> Laney: for "to build list of packages using UPower for suspend/hibernate", are you going to use a pad again? (or the same pad)
<Laney> I'll spend some time triaging it soon
<Laney> yeah, probably a pad to avoid BP mail spam
<pitti> i. e. http://pad.ubuntu.com/saucy-logind-transition
<Laney> no opinion on the URL yet :-)
<Laney> whoever does the work first can choose
<pitti> Laney: I'm a bit confused -- so https://code.launchpad.net/~laney/indicator-datetime/use-upower/+merge/153809 was merged on 2013-05-03 with said commit message
<pitti> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-datetime/+changelog has autolandings from 13.05.06
<pitti> is that subsumed under "* Stop using ConsoleKit (LP: #1156613)"?
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1156613 in indicator-datetime (Ubuntu) "Stop using ConsoleKit" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1156613
<Laney> I think that some manual mangling of the changelog happened
<pitti> oh, apparently yes
<pitti> the changelog is the bug title, not the merge commit message
<Laney> right, those don't get used
<Laney> for d/changelog anyway
<pitti> apt-get source shows that this is in, so this is done
<Laney> I lost track a bit about what happened to those around release time
 * pitti moves
<pitti> thanks
<Laney> there were split raring and trunk branches which had to be merged, and blah blah
<Laney> cyphermox_ sorted it out anyway
 * Laney puts the Queen's speech on
<Laney> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22441280 you know you want to watch too
<mlankhorst> they're red
<mlankhorst> Laney: why do I cringe every time I hear more mucking with intellectual property
<Laney> because you have no faith in politicians
<mlankhorst> am I wrong? :p
<Laney> dunno what these plans are
<mlankhorst> making it easier for companies to lift copyrighted 'orphan works'
<Laney> the eu is doing stuff on that too
<mlankhorst> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/04/29/err_act_landgrab/
<Laney> yeah i wouldn't trust that site's journalism
<cyphermox_> Laney, mlankhorst: if you look at anything on thereg; look at the BOFH pages :)
<Laney> heh, yeah, those are alright
<Laney> they have some curious hatred of wikipedia
<mlankhorst> who maintains the unity packages in ubuntu?
<cyphermox_> Laney: http://xkcd.com/978/
<cyphermox_> mlankhorst: various people, what do you need?
<mlankhorst> cyphermox_: well i fixed up x 1.14 now, and made a xorg-server-omap-revert package to keep the pandaboard running. some coordination for uploading the pointer barrier fixes at the same time as xserver
<sil2100> cyphermox_: morning!
<cyphermox_> sil2100: hey
<sil2100> cyphermox_: I was looking at the states of the stacks and wanted to check if autopilot 1.3 is already used for the projects, but I noticed for instance that unity from the unity stack Head still uses autopilot 1.2 even though 1.3 is in our PPA already
<sil2100> cyphermox_: do you know why it's still only using 1.2 from the archives and not 1.3 from our PPA?
<cyphermox_> sil2100: without checking, no
<Laney> sil2100: which PPA?
<cyphermox_> Laney: indeed, that's probably the best question to figure this out
<sil2100> Laney: daily-build-next
<Laney> link?
<sil2100> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-unity/+archive/daily-build-next
<Laney> sil2100: what's an example of a bad build in that PPA?
<sil2100> Laney: what do you mean by 'bad build'
<Laney> one which got the wrong autopilot
<cyphermox_> Laney: it doesn't translate into a failed build
<cyphermox_> it's a failed test though
<Laney> I didn't say failed
<sil2100> cyphermox_: hmm, not really
<Laney> how can you see that it didn't do what you wanted?
<sil2100> cyphermox_: since the thing is:
<sil2100> Wait a moment guys
<cyphermox_> sil2100: http://10.97.0.1:8080/job/ps-generic-autopilot-release-testing/283/label=autopilot-nvidia/console ?
 * Laney stab vpn stab
<cyphermox_> I hear you ;)
<sil2100> http://10.97.0.1:8080/job/ps-generic-autopilot-release-testing/283/label=autopilot-ati/consoleFull
<sil2100> Right
 * sil2100 stabs himself
<sil2100> But this one for isntance was ok, all ok
<sil2100> And the thing is!
<sil2100> It's not even using unity trunk here!
<sil2100> It's using Unity from the raring archives :|
<sil2100> Why is it using unity from the archives, since it was supposed to check the latest unity from the daily-build-next PPA instead
<sil2100> As this is what the job is for
<cyphermox_> sil2100: check configuration, make sure the package is listed in testpackages:
<cyphermox_> Laney: https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/ps-generic-autopilot-release-testing/283/
<cyphermox_> this is the public copy of the same data ^
<sil2100> cyphermox_: unity-autopilot is, and it's still installing it from raring it seems...
<sil2100> cyphermox_: since installed_test_packages says:
<sil2100> unity-autopilot is already the newest version.
<sil2100> Which is not true, as the PPA should have a newer version
<Laney> I don't see anything about the PPA in the apt-get update output
<Laney> but we've gone into jenkins which means I have no clue what's going on so /me runs away screaming
<cyphermox_> good move.
<sil2100> I'll look into that in more detail then, thanks guys ;) Just wanted to know if there was something obvious going on
<sil2100> But it seems nothing jenkins is obvious
<cyphermox_> sil2100: there's not
<cyphermox_> everything seems to me like it should have taken the new version, but it didn't
<cyphermox_> evidently something is either wrong in the configuration, or in the code for the check jobs.
<sil2100> Actually...
<sil2100> cyphermox_: there's no unity in the daily-build-next PPA
<sil2100> ?!
<sil2100> Ok, there is
<sil2100> cyphermox_: scratch that
<cyphermox_> yeah, there are two :)
<cyphermox_> one for raring and one for saucy. both build the unity-autopilot source package
<sil2100> And for instance now the new test infrastructure would be useful, as we could simply fetch the test snapshot and check what exactly happened on the test system
<cyphermox_> sil2100: mind if I let you hack at it for now, I'll tackle the other issues?
<cyphermox_> hahah yeah :)
<sil2100> cyphermox_: no problem, I'll poke you if I have some insider questions ;)
<cyphermox_> autopilot-qt had an issue, and I reran head-phone just to check if we could convince that small one to go green
<cyphermox_> sil2100: #ubuntu-unity; we can leave -desktop for the desktopy stuff.
<cyphermox_> sil2100: heh, the phone stack tests will undoubtedly fail, utah is as wedged as ever.
 * sil2100 sighs
<mlankhorst> tkamppeter_: can you kill https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/client-1305-convertibles-and-touch-desktop ? it's nothing more than a work item for the xorg session
<cyphermox_> mlankhorst: about unity coordination stuff; wanna ping in #ubuntu-unity? you'll run a better chance of getting the right people.
<cyphermox_> sil2100: this one is quite interesting: https://code.launchpad.net/~mathieu-tl/qml-friends/bootstrap-message/+merge/162971
<cyphermox_> I'm not necessarily asking for a review from you, I think robru or ken should take a look, but I wrote the explanation for why the change is needed and there are links
<mlankhorst> cyphermox_: well there's still a blocker for now, I guess when new nvidia-tegra lands I can get serious about moving x1.14 to saucy
<cyphermox_> ok
<sil2100> cyphermox: it seems a rather obvious fix, so I can review it and approve
<sil2100> Good catch!
<cyphermox> you're in super-friends?
<cyphermox> how come I'm not in the cool kids group? :'(
 * cyphermox cries
<sil2100> It seems I am, since I can approve the merge it seems ;p But I don't know why!
<sil2100> Since I never ever did anything super-friend'ly
<cyphermox> right.
<attente> sil2100, hi
<sil2100> attente: hello!
<attente> so i'm not really sure what else is needed to land unity-gtk-module
<attente> i merged your ap-fixes branch, thanks for that
<sil2100> attente: thanks for reviewing - do the tests as they look currently work OK on your system?
<attente> yes, they do
<attente> we still have a couple of gtk patches to remove it seems
<sil2100> attente: ok, so let me check if it all works here as well
<sil2100> attente: I also need to check what's the status with 13.04, but I need robru for that
<sil2100> attente: since I have no clue what's happening with that - once I have a clear situation here, I'll do what needs to be done to re-enable it in daily build
<sil2100> attente: s/13.04/autopilot 1.3
 * sil2100 needs coffee
<attente> heh, ok
<attente> thanks
<tkamppeter_> mlankhorst, hi
<tkamppeter> mlankhorst, hi
<mlankhorst> what i said above, there is no point in an entire session for a single bug, so please take it down :)
<sil2100> robru: could you ping me when you're here?
<tkamppeter> mlankhorst, it is not about this single bug. The bug is one work item. Other points are implementation of touch gestures (pinch to zoom, scroll by dragging, right click (long press? Ctrl+tap? ...), script triggered by flipping the screen of a convertible, how the convertible should behave in tablet mode, ...
<mlankhorst> I honestly have no idea about that
<tkamppeter> mlankhorst, I created this session to find the right people to take care of all these parts. Perhaps also the people who worked on the Nexus 7 can help here.
<robru> cyphermox, sil2100 : hey, just woke up.
<robru> cyphermox, ~super-friends contains ~canonical-product-strategy, are you not in that one?
<cyphermox> I am not
<robru> cyphermox, you should get in that one, it gives you near-godlike powers over launchpad ;-)
<cyphermox> robru: sil2100: Mirv: figured out the issue with the API calls after all.
<cyphermox> heh
<cyphermox> I'm not sure I want that kind of responsibility ;)
 * cyphermox -> lunch
<larsu> desrt: do you know if we'll get the new gtk this cycle? Or will we stay on 3.8?
 * larsu needs to update his custom menu item ipatch
<desrt> i guess we'll get the new one...
<desrt> no seb today?
<larsu> I think it's a public holiday in France
<desrt> btw: i landed the gtkmenutrackeritem patch
<desrt> jasper is currently pouring over it
<larsu> ah, nice!
<desrt> i'd appreciate the same from you, since you will be the other consumer
<larsu> let me guess, he hates the Gtk namespace?
<desrt> ya.... he wants egg
<desrt> we discussed it
<desrt> not going to happen
<larsu> ugh, that's equally stupid
<larsu> have a bug #?
<desrt> ya
<desrt> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=699934
<ubot2`> Gnome bug 699934 in GtkApplication "add GtkMenuTrackerItem" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<sil2100> robru: hi!
<sil2100> robru: so, what I wanted is - what's the state of the 1.3 autopilot transition?
<sil2100> robru: ping
<kenvandine> sil2100, i just found out why we are getting so many autopilot failures
<kenvandine> the qa guys added some debugging for us
<kenvandine> we have autopilot-phablet in testpackages
<kenvandine> and that isn't installable
<kenvandine> we need autopilot-touch
<sil2100> kenvandine: oh
<sil2100> autopilot-touch? What's that?
<kenvandine> but that also isn't going to be installable... because it depends on python-ubuntu-platform-api
<kenvandine> the new autopilot-phablet :)
<sil2100> kenvandine: I thought that autopilot-phablet was the touch-based autopilot
<kenvandine> they renamed it for 1.3
<sil2100> Ah, ok, for 1.3
<sil2100> fginther: ping
<kenvandine> it's in the ppa
<kenvandine> but...
<sil2100> fginther: did you quick-fix the generic jobs?
<kenvandine> it depends on a missing package
<sil2100> kenvandine: that can only be used on devices?
<fginther> sil2100, yes, I believe it is working now
<kenvandine> not sure
<sil2100> kenvandine: I think we'll have to poke thomi about this ultimately, since my understanding was that autopilot 1.3 will be able to 'emulate' touch input even on a desktop device
<sil2100> fginther: excellent! Big thanks
<fginther> sil2100, np
<kenvandine> sil2100, maybe we should change it to autopilot-desktop and see if that works?
<kenvandine> sil2100, i have a branch changing it in cups2d
<kenvandine> if you can give me a quick approval i'll rerun a job
<kenvandine> i can try changing it to autopilot-desktop
<kenvandine> oh... i think we can just remove it
<sil2100> kenvandine: no problem, send the link ;)
<sil2100> kenvandine: I think indeed maybe let's try using the desktop autopilot
<sil2100> Maybe it would have bindings for touch for the desktop
<fginther> sil2100, kenvandine, for what it's worth. autopilot-desktop is the expected package to use on a desktop install
<kenvandine> sil2100, https://code.launchpad.net/~ken-vandine/cupstream2distro-config/autopilot-touch/+merge/163037
<kenvandine> fginther, sil2100: yeah, we had added autopilot-phablet to testpackages as a hack to work around it not getting installed before
<kenvandine> we don't need it at all now, there are depends that bring in python-autopilot
<kenvandine> which depends on autopilot-touch || autopilot-desktop
<fginther> sil2100, there may be autopilot 1.3 issues related to ps-generic-autopilot. It was working with the older 1.2 version where there was no autopilot-touch || autopilot-desktop
<fginther> sil2100, I did a local test, looks like it should work
<sil2100> \o/
<sil2100> kenvandine: approved
<kenvandine> sil2100, thanks
<kenvandine> i'll redeploy
<robru> sil2100, sorry, was on lunch. as far as my end goes, I still haven't made any progress in getting autopilot enabled for webapps. I gotta work with vrruiz on that, it seems stale & incomplete to me
<sil2100> robru: hm, ok, so we still need to get that sorted out
<kenvandine> fginther, the guy from #qa that helped debug the autopilot/utah issues pointed out a couple other things that should be fixed
<kenvandine> are you the right person to fix the utah script?
<fginther> kenvandine, yes
<robru> ok, I am going to upgrade to suacy... wish me luck!
<robru> success!
<desrt> robru: boring.
<desrt> if you want fun, try an f19 upgrade
<robru> haha
<desrt> good for that oldschool "i need to debug my bootloader" linux feel
<robru> hey desrt, you'd probalby know this: how can I tell what app created a certain window? I have a mysterious window on my desktop and I'm not sure where it's coming from
<desrt> xprop will tell you
<desrt> xprop | grep PID
<desrt> then click
<robru> desrt, great. so what the hell is gcr-prompter? ;-)
<desrt> something about the keyring i guess
<desrt> the thing that asks you "do you wnat to allow access?" maybe?
<robru> desrt, well, it's asking me for a password, but I'm not sure for what. It says "for account rbpark@gmail.com", which I assume is my google account, so I enter my google account password, but it tells me that it's incorrect. except I just logged into google 2 seconds ago, so I'm quite confident that I know what my password is. so clearly this is asking for soemthing else, and I'm not sur ewhat
<robru> so this keeps popping up randomly, and i keep cancelling out of it, and I haven't noticed any features being broken by the inability to login to this thing
<desrt> maybe something to do with online accounts?
<robru> kenvandine, ^^
<robru> ;-)
<desrt> maybe use 'ps f' to find out what spawned gcr-prompter?
<desrt> well, 'ps xf' you would need
<robru> there we go ;-)
<desrt> any smoking gun there?
<robru> desrt, yep, 'init --user'
<robru> ;-)
<desrt> that's probably not a smoking gun...
<robru> I know
<robru> was being sarcastic
<desrt> i'm guessing upstart does the prctl() thing to get to be the new grandparent process for everything in the session
<desrt> so everything that gets orphaned get picked up by it
<robru> desrt, i guess. still not sure what password it wants me to put in there though
<robru> or what it's even for
<desrt> VIRUS
<robru> the online accounts pane in system settings doesn't report any failures
<desrt> check seahorse maybe?
<desrt> something obvious may turn up in there
<robru> desrt, dunno, seahorse opened fine, none of the entries there reference rbpark@gmail.com
<desrt> i'd continue on the previous course of blaming ken, then :)
<robru> it looks like https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gcr/+bug/1044549
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1044549 in gcr (Ubuntu) "The "Access Prompt" randomly pop up!" [High,Triaged]
<robru> oh, workaround in comment #14
<robru> yay
<desrt> blame rishi, then :)
 * desrt wonders why goa is even on ubuntu?
<robru> for the gnome remix
<robru> I guess
<desrt> ah.  you have it installed?
 * kenvandine reads back
<robru> well, I was using Gnome-Shell through the Quantal cycle, and only switched to Unity at some point early in the raring cycle. so yeah, I had all the gnome stuff installed.
<desrt> makes some sense, then
<kenvandine> robru, oh... so you figured it out?
<robru> kenvandine, I guess so. it remains to be seen if the workaround from that bug actually fixes it or not though
<kenvandine> i doubt that is triggered by UOA
<robru> yeah, seems a GOA thing that's attacking me from beyond the grave...
<robru> https://launchpad.net/gcr also, it seems pitti is to blame ;-)
<robru> brb, gotta run to the store
<dupondje> Yeey, Empathy is totally broken :(
<dupondje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/empathy/+bug/1175582 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/empathy/+bug/1177833 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/empathy/+bug/1176757 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/empathy/+bug/1174208 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/empathy/+bug/1173472 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/empathy/+bug/1163961
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1175582 in empathy (Ubuntu) "Empathy not displaying any online contacts" [Undecided,New]
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1177833 in empathy (Ubuntu) "empaty does not connect to any account. and it does not show the yahoo contacts avatar." [Undecided,New]
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1176757 in empathy (Ubuntu) "doesn't connecting to any account except facebook" [Undecided,New]
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1174208 in empathy (Ubuntu) "Empathy shows no contacts in Ubuntu 13.04" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1173472 in empathy (Ubuntu) "the facebook accounts in empathy shown disconnected" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<dupondje> seems buggy no ? :)
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-05-09
<sil2100> Morning!
<Laney> good day
<darkxst> Laney, hi
<darkxst> Laney, might be worth having a gnome3.8 session at UDS, but I am going to struggle with timezones, so will be hard, maybe at a stretch I can do first or last session of the day
<darkxst> Laney, I think the main things are what is blocking gtk, and what is requited from gsd/gcc
<Laney> darkxst: hey, alright - could you reply to the list saying so? See what the others say.
<Laney> yeah
<darkxst> and Jeremy is away at the moment, and unlikely to make the session
<darkxst> Laney, will do, but my messages always seem to end up in the moderation queue for ever
<Laney> hmm
<Laney> are you subscribed?
<darkxst> Laney, of course, how else would I see the emails?
<Laney> web interface maybe
<Laney> it surprises me that your emails are moderated if you're a subscriber
<Laney> thought we only had that for -devel
<Laney> anyway, ta, will see what we can sort out
<darkxst> Laney, hmm ok, it worked, must have got the lists confused!
<Laney> heh
<darkxst> Laney, oh and we really need to land spidermonkey 17 this cycle!
 * Laney runs
 * Laney points at the mozilla guy
<darkxst> I got them mozillians to make an official release and still nobody wants it!
<darkxst> It makes a *huge* difference for gnome-shell though
<Laney> you should talk to chrisccoulson, he's the maintainer (even in Debian)
<darkxst> he didnt sound like he had time, last time I spoke with him ;(
<Laney> although perhaps wants some help... http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?repeatmerged=no&src=mozjs
<Laney> maybe offer to move it into pkg-mozilla
<Laney> or whatever the team is called
<darkxst> Laney, then it will have to be called IceMonkey?
<Laney> heh
<Laney> mozjs is probably alright ...
<dpm> hi jasoncwarner, we're trying to get the UDS schedule in shape, could you look into scheduling the sessions for the approved blueprints on the client track? http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/track/client/
<dpm> thanks!
<sil2100> attente: ping
<attente> sil2100, pong
<sil2100> attente: are there any special requirements for the unity-gtk-module tests to run or just the unity-gtk3-module package?
<sil2100> attente: since I am getting some IndexErrors when doing documents_menu = documents_item[0] etc.
<attente> sil2100, these are just basic tests to make sure the global menu is working
<attente> if you open gedit, are the menu items enabled?
<sil2100> attente: yes, currently what I see the autopilot tests doing is the mouse moves to the panel, opens up one of the menu entries and closes with failure
<sil2100> Let me pastebin the output
<attente> ok
<sil2100> (since I'm porting it to 1.3 now, but this seems to be unrelated to autopilot 1.3, more to pyatspi)
<attente> it might also be an issue with the detection of the menubar
<attente> there really isn't a good way of finding it, the test tries to make a guess based on the structure of the widget tree
<sil2100> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5647818/ <- the line numbers might be different at your branch, since I modded some imports for the 1.3 transition
<sil2100> But it seems to open the menu and hm, maybe not being able to find what it wanted?
<sil2100> It was supposed to check for the checked thing
<attente> yes
<sil2100> I wonder why documents_item[0] gives an IndexError
<attente> maybe it's not being populated in time before the test opens the menu?
<attente> can you try changing the sleep duration from 0.2 to something like 2.2 at the start of that function
<desrt> hi everybody!!
<sil2100> Hello
<attente> sil2100, if this doesn't work, can you add the line "print_accessible(app_menu)" just after the app_menu is created on line 296?
<sil2100> attente: sadly, didn't work, will add the print thing
<desrt> hmm.  no seb today, again?
<sil2100> attente: ok, I have something, this output is really helpful! Now I can finally debug it correctly ;)
<attente> sil2100, ha, awesome
<sil2100> attente: yep, I see the problem, I have been once beaten by this stupidity before
<attente> sil2100: what is it?
<sil2100> attente: not sure if it's only on my system or it's globally, but gedit is one of those applications that exports 'separators' in the main menubar
<sil2100> attente: they're not being drawn on the menu since they're empty labels, not taken into account at all
<sil2100> attente: so, on my system the Documents item is not 5, it's 7 - since there are 2 empty lables in front of that item
 * sil2100 sighs
<attente> oh, really?
<attente> hrm
<sil2100> attente: we had a bug once with that in the past, even two bugs
<attente> could you pastebin the debug output you have?
<sil2100> Yep, since at least I thought we fixed appmenu not to export separators
<attente> looks like we'll have to find a smarter way to detect the correct widget
<sil2100> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5647852/
<sil2100> I think the easiest way will be looking at the name of the item somehow, just a simple loop on app_menu contents until we find Documents
<attente> yeah, i'll comb through the tests again to make sure it's not using absolute indexing
<attente> thanks for this sil2100
<sil2100> attente: no problem! Once you have a branch ready, I'll review and approve and then apply the 1.3 changes over that one
<sil2100> Once we do that, we can re-enable the daily-build
<attente> sure, thanks!
<sil2100> cyphermox: ping
<attente> sil2100, hey
<attente> is unity-gtk-module actually running for you? i'm looking at your pastebin and wondering if you might actually have the old libdbusmenu proxy on instead?
<cyphermox> sil2100: pong
<sil2100> attente: well, the GTK module was attached and GTK did not mention any problems, so I thought it was - is there a way I can make sure if it's running or not?
<sil2100> cyphermox: hi! Did you re-deploy the QA stack for head recently?
<sil2100> cyphermox: since I remember I added autopilot autopilot tests to be run on daily release, but I don't see the check job there
<sil2100> cyphermox: at least, I remember adding that to the QA stack config
<cyphermox> no, I don't think I deployed it
<cyphermox> we can do that in a minute
<attente> sil2100, if you don't mind, you can try purging appmenu-gtk and appmenu-gtk3
<attente> and then if re-opening gedit puts the menubar back in the window, then the unity-gtk-module isn't doing its job
<attente> but the pastebin seems to suggest you're still on the old one
<attente> in which case, what we're doing right now is massaging the tests to work for the old menu proxy
<sil2100> attente: so it seems - I purged both of them, I have the menu on the panel but all entries are grayed out
<sil2100> And I get:
<sil2100> (gedit:20560): Gtk-WARNING **: Failed to load type module: (null)
<sil2100> `menu_proxy_module_load': gedit: undefined symbol: menu_proxy_module_load
<sil2100> Those errors on gedit load
<attente> ah, ok
<attente> so it was using the old menu, and you do have unity-gtk-module is installed, but your indicator-appmenu is missing a patch :)
<sil2100> ;) Is the indicator-appmenu patch already merged into trunk?
<sil2100> Or is it waiting for unity-gtk-module to be up and running?
<sil2100> Also, is there a way we can force the use of unity-gtk-module instead of appmenu-gtk? Since this will be a problem on the test machines
<attente> so, it looks like it was merged a few days ago, but a new package hasn't been released yet
<attente> i'm not sure how to force the builders to use unity-gtk-module instead of appmenu-gtk
<attente> i'd assume that whatever is depending on appmenu-gtk would have to switch
<attente> indicator-appmenu has recommends on appmenu-gtk*
<sil2100> attente: does it make sense to have both installed? Since the easiest way I see is to:
<attente> if both are installed, then the appmenu-gtk wins every time, iirc
<sil2100> hm, give me a moment, need to check something
<attente> the reason it wins is because of the menu proxy patch in gtk
<attente> sure
<sil2100> The problem with the case of unity-gtk-module is that it doesn't really conflict with appmenu-gtk, it just doesn't work then, so doing it in packaging is strange - what's the decision for saucy? Is unity-gtk-module going to replace appmenu-gtk?
<attente> that's true
<attente> yes, that's the plan
<sil2100> attente: essentially, where, in what application 'component', is the decision made either to use the appmenu-gtk proxy or unity-gtk-module? Is it done on indicator-appmenu's side?
<sil2100> attente: since the most elegant way for now would be to make unity-gtk-module 'preferred' if it's available for now it seems, and use appmenu-gtk in all other default situations
<sil2100> attente: since I think appmenu-gtk is on the image right now by default, so this might be a problem - we would have to get rid of it from the iso
<attente> as it is now, if the gtk installed on the user's system has the menu proxy patch, then unity-gtk-module will never work
<attente> the goal is to entirely replace appmenu-gtk, so we should get rid of appmenu-gtk from the iso as well
<attente> as such, there's no real way to make one work, and fall back to the other
<sil2100> attente: ok, so we'll do that in packaging then, since anyway the goal is to replace appmenu-gtk, then a Replaces tag is the thing we'll need
<sil2100> I'll take care of that later on
<attente> ok, thanks
<sil2100> cyphermox: thanks! (I missed your reply earlier ;p )
<attente> the reason i brought all of this up in the first place was because i wasn't sure if it was better to have the tests fail when appmenu-gtk is active
<attente> or if it's better to have the tests work in either case
<Laney> Replaces isn't what you want - Conflicts might be
<sil2100> Getting rid of the hard-coded offsets might be a good idea anyway, since application menus can change in time
<attente> sil2100, good point
<attente> Laney: what's the difference between the two?
<sil2100> Laney: indeed you might be right, I just used Replaces as a placeholder, since I'll be anyway planning it later on in detail
<sil2100> ;)
<Laney> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-relationships.html#s-replaces
<Laney> attente: Replaces is for overwriting files, Conflicts is for making things go away (or be upgraded)
<sil2100> Laney: although there's also a section: "7.6.2 Replacing whole packages, forcing their removal" regarding Replaces
<sil2100> Which states to use both at once
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> if one package does exactly the same thing as another one
<cyphermox> sil2100: I can redeploy qa now if you like
<cyphermox> sil2100: want to review a change for me? https://code.launchpad.net/~mathieu-tl/cupstream2distro-config/job-authtoken-new-api/+merge/163016
<cyphermox> sil2100: Replaces + Conflicts: to make things go away and get their files replaced ;)
<sil2100> attente: ping
<sil2100> attente: I approved your branch but it doesn't want to land - do you have autolanding?
<sil2100> attente: I wanted your changes to get in first, but it seems I would have to wait too long
<sil2100> attente: but here is a 1.3 mod change:
<sil2100> https://code.launchpad.net/~sil2100/unity-gtk-module/autopilot_1.3_modifications/+merge/163203
<attente> sil2100, thanks
<attente> there isn't any autolanding for it yet
<sil2100> Ah, ok
<sil2100> attente: thanks for the test enhancments ;)
<sil2100> See you tomorrow!
<cyphermox> ugh
<cyphermox> attente: can I help you make autolanding work?
<attente> cyphermox, sure
<attente> do you need any changes from me to the source package?
<robru> cyphermox, ping
<cyphermox> robru: pong
<cyphermox> suup
<robru> cyphermox, https://code.launchpad.net/~robru/cupstream2distro-config/saucy/+merge/163225 is this premature? or a good idea?
<robru> cyphermox, I think it's premature to release to distro, so this MP keeps things in the PPA... just that I'm running saucy now so I need saucy builds of things ;-)
<cyphermox> not premature no ;)
<cyphermox> things should also land in distro where possible actually
<robru> cyphermox, yeah, but that's on a case-by-case basis, this was a global search and replace ;-)
<robru> cyphermox, or in other words, each person responsible for each stack should enable theirs one by one... but we need everything saucy now ;-)
<cyphermox> I agree
<robru> cyphermox, great
<cyphermox> actually...
<cyphermox> hmm
<robru> oh?
<cyphermox> I wonder if our friends in #ubuntu-touch not need the stuff in raring still
<cyphermox> but I guess we should agressively strive to make that saucy anyway
<robru> cyphermox, this is why we have a review process and I didn't just commit to trunk ;-)
<cyphermox> it's code, it can be reverted
<robru> lol
<cyphermox> we can still build one-off shots
<robru> true
<cyphermox> approving! :)
<robru> great ;-)
<cyphermox> err
<cyphermox> I could have sworn I saw something about saucy in our spreadsheet
<robru> cyphermox, oh, while you're at it, can I get you to push a manual run of the webapps stack? I finally got all the fixes landed in the branches, so I just need to see one manual run succeed and then we can enable webapps for daily releases to saucy
<cyphermox> I can't find it anymore
<cyphermox> sure
<cyphermox> can this wait a few hours?
<robru> cyphermox, yeah, for sure
<cyphermox> ok
<cyphermox> I'll start it in 2 hours or so
<robru> cyphermox, I'm gonna push an MP against -config for you to review, but no hurry.
<cyphermox> alright
<cyphermox> I think we'll wait for didrocks for the rest of the saucy stuff
<cyphermox> and just make sure everything touch is well landed before
<robru> cyphermox, fair
<cyphermox> robru: where is your MP for review
<cyphermox> ?
<robru> cyphermox, just writing it now
<robru> cyphermox, ok, https://code.launchpad.net/~robru/cupstream2distro-config/saucy-webapps/+merge/163227
<cyphermox> robru: you're sure it's good to land in archive?
<robru> cyphermox, yeah! everything is finally working ;-)
<robru> cyphermox, there is definitely room for improvement with the tests, but we have some basic sanity checks in place.
<cyphermox> ok
<cyphermox> I'll give all the code a review too before approving the MR; just because I'm core dev and you need some further code review to land this
<cyphermox> (and then an archive admin will review)
<robru> cyphermox, which code review? you mean like debdiffs between new versions vs what was in raring already?
<cyphermox> yeah
<cyphermox> pretty much
<robru> cyphermox, ok, sounds fair
<cyphermox> that never landed did it?
<cyphermox> or do you mean it's all already in the archive?
<robru> cyphermox, no, webapps never daily released in raring. it was only ever manually pushed, and that was a nightmare that's finally coming to an end ;-)
<achiang> is there a way to turn off compositing in Unity in 13.04 to make it work under Xvnc?
<cyphermox> if the latter, I don't need to check anything again, I'm just confused
<cyphermox> oh ok
<cyphermox> so no special extra review no
<robru> cyphermox, yeah, these apps are all already in the archive as far as I know, this is just getting newer versions of them via daily release.
<cyphermox> achiang: I think support was just restarting unity in that case :/
<cyphermox> achiang: otherwise I don't know
<robru> cyphermox, in fact most of them are actully already the same version... it's just that now daily release makes releasing easier when we do make changes
<cyphermox> robru: ack, that's fine
<achiang> cyphermox: hm, weird
<attente> someone mentioned an environment variable for virtualization once which disables compositing i believe, but what variable that is i have no idea
<cyphermox> let's grep for it ;)
<attente> hey, maybe: getenv("UNITY_LOW_GFX_MODE")?
<cyphermox> achiang: UNITY_LOW_GFX_MODE=1
<cyphermox> yeah :)
 * cyphermox high five attente
<attente> woo :)
<achiang> thanks!
<LeartS> Hi all! I created a patch that fixes a bug in eog (eye of gnome). I proposed the patch upstream, what should I do about downstream (ubuntu/eog)? Make a branch with the patch in debian/patches and propose for merging, post the patch as comment, wait?
<robru> LeartS, how bad is the bug? distropatches typically have a high maintenance burden associated with them, so usually it's better just to get the new upstream release packaged if possible ;-)
<cyphermox> right, presumably if the patch was accepted we'll get it soon
<cyphermox> if it's broken in raring though, we might want to cherry-pick it as SRU if it affects people a lot
<robru> yeah
<LeartS> By 'right' you mean wait? Btw it affects raring (it affects every distribution as far as I know) and it's the second most heated bug of eog
<robru> LeartS, well you might have a strong case for an SRU then ;-)
<robru> LeartS, so you want to confirm the bug is fixed in Saucy, and then apply the patch as a distropatch on the latest raring package
<cyphermox> LeartS: what bug?
<LeartS> #646798
<cyphermox> bug 646798
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 646798 in eog (Ubuntu) "eog window size exceeds screen height" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/646798
<cyphermox> hahaha
<robru> what's funnny
<robru> ?
<LeartS> I'm a newbie. SRU means?
<robru> LeartS, SRU stands for Stable Release Update. it's the review process we use to ensure that we don't introduce new bugs into old releases of Ubuntu.
<robru> LeartS, so i think the best course of action is to actually get this accepted upstream. The name of the game is that we want the fix to be well-tested before pushing it into raring. Once it's in upstream, it'll make it's way into saucy eventually, and then once it's in saucy you can backport it into raring
<LeartS> Well, I find it kind of funny  (in a sad way) that the bug was first reported almost three years ago, has high visibility, and nobody made a patch (literally 4 lines of code) :(
<LeartS> Ok :)
<robru> LeartS, yeah, that's the nature of community development. Unless a problem is really big and bad, nobody cares, or nobody has time. I use EoG all the time and never noticed this or bothered with it
<cyphermox> LeartS: never noticed it either
<robru> LeartS, must be an issue only on small screens or something
<cyphermox> robru: no
<LeartS> I have a 1600x900
<cyphermox> I think it's an issue only when only one dimension of a picture is too large
<cyphermox> works for me for a radically larger image for both width and eight here; the whole image gets scaled to something that fits
<robru> cyphermox, well I just opened an image that's 1920x2160 and eog shrunk it to fit on one screen just fine ;-)
<cyphermox> robru: are you on raring?
<LeartS> cyphermox: what's you're screen resolution? I'll give you an image size that should give you problems
<robru> cyphermox, saucy now
<cyphermox> 1366x768
<cyphermox> robru: I wonder if we don't already have the patch?
<cyphermox> wait, no
<robru> cyphermox, no, he said it wasn't accepted upstream yet, just proposed
<cyphermox> right, but that doesn't mean it wasn't committed, or something else wasn't committed to fix the issue
<LeartS> I have raring, maybe saucy has a patched version? That would be strange because the bug hasn't been marked as closed nor here nor on bugzilla
<cyphermox> but, we're still on the same version as raring
<cyphermox> and it's all 3.6.2
<LeartS> Let me calc the image size and we'll see
<cyphermox> LeartS: so you say you have an image that should trigger it?
<robru> LeartS, so is the issue that eog never shrinks any window? or is there some trick where the image has to be only x amount larger than the screen?
<cyphermox> oh, if it's square.
<cyphermox> if (img_width > img_height) {
<robru> lol, eog doesn't shrink any square images? I guess I don't have any to test ;-)
<cyphermox> you know...
<LeartS> cyphermox: try 2732x2000
<cyphermox> ok
<LeartS> no wait, I forgot the 0.75 factor
<robru> LeartS, nice patch actually, I always love patches that reduce the number of lines of code ;-)
<cyphermox> yup, obviously broken yet not scaled
<cyphermox> the image needs to be smaller than screen size, if you don't count decoration
<robru> Oh, i think I see. the old behavior was just that it only scaled based on if the image was wider, it used the width of the screen, or if the image was taller, it went by the height of the screen. I guess this would produce really strange results if you had a rotated screen that was taller than it was wide.
<LeartS> cyphermox: 2732*2600 should be even more visible
<cyphermox> yeah, I see what's up
<LeartS> robru: the problem is that, even if the image is wider, it may need a "stronger" reduction factor for the height
<robru> cyphermox, I'm thinking, an image that was wider than it was tall, but not as wide as your screen, but taller than your screen. that should bugger things up.
<cyphermox> yes
<cyphermox> well anyway the patch looks good
<robru> cyphermox, hah, look at that, I just reproduced it ;-)
<robru> cyphermox, so I made an image that was 1800x1600 and then opened it in eog. quite a bit cut off the bottom there (screen res is 1920x1080, so the image is quite a bit narrower and taller than my screen, without being wider than it is tall
<cyphermox> yeah
<robru> cyphermox, I guess back in the days of 4:3 screens, this bug was much less noticable. but it's easier to trigger on a widescreen.
<cyphermox> LeartS: let's make this a SRU now; can you follow http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#Procedure and update the bug description?
<cyphermox> LeartS: and if you can confirm that your email on launchpad is the one we should use to credit you for the change..
<LeartS> The bug occurs if the image width is < image height * 3/4 * ratio-of-the-screen and > of image height
<LeartS> that's the formula :)
<LeartS> the email is correct, i'm reading the link
<LeartS> look at the formula: with a 4:3 screen that doesn't ever happen (well, it actually does because of panel and decoration, but is marginal)
<mfisch> when I select files and right click on them and do compress, anyone know if that is still nautilus?  I'm asking because the password protected zip doesn't work
<mfisch> hmm looks like file-roller not nautilus
<sarnold> mfisch: that might be for the best, zip encryption isn't very good..
<mfisch> there's no failure message
<sarnold> that's not good :)
<mfisch> so instead we should just remove the option
<LeartS> cyphermox: I just have to update the bug description, or also the other steps?
<mfisch> sarnold: I'll play around with it tonight and see what's going on. There's already a bug saying it can't uncompress encrypted ones
<cyphermox> LeartS: as many steps as you want to be involved in ;) if you want to prepare a package for the SRU, that's fine too
<sarnold> mfisch: .. and that's -also- not very kind :) hehe
<mfisch> at least you know
<LeartS> Well, I'm new so i'm afraid i may do something wrong. For example, it says: "Check that the bug is fixed in the current development release" but the bug report affects eog (upstream) and eog (ubuntu), not a specific release. Should I edit it to add a specific release (saucy) mark it as fixed for that, and then add another specific release (raring?)
<LeartS> cyphermox: have patience with me :)
<cyphermox> LeartS: nah, it's not fixed in the current development release
<cyphermox> hmm
<cyphermox> I guess I should upload this particular patch, as soon as we get the review from upstream
<cyphermox> LeartS: you can skip ahead to after that check; it's no big deal since we should get an answer soon
<cyphermox> it's really mostly for from point 3 about updating the description
<LeartS> cyphermox: do you think it's ok as description?
<LeartS> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5649453/
<robru> LeartS, I think your description is way overcomplicated.
<robru> LeartS, all you need to say is "if the image is wider than it is tall, taller than your screen is, but not wider than the screen"
<robru> and then give an example like what worked for me, image 1800x1600 displayed on screen 1900x1080
<robru> rather than give a complicated formula, nobody's going to understand what that means ;-)
<LeartS> It's not that complicated (I actually think yours is more intricate to read!), and you're condition is exact (or, better, it's just a subset of when it happens). Also, there is a link to an image that should trigger the bug to most people
<LeartS> exact -> inexact
<LeartS> lol
<robru> LeartS, http://ubuntuone.com/5d3T7gavMutpsvylKIJabD here's a diagram I drew up to better illustrate the situation
<LeartS> but I could remove the formula I suppose, and just say: If you're screen is wider than taller, use this image
<robru> LeartS, doesn't really matter if my description is imprecise or only a subset; the point is that it's clear what it says, and people will say "oh yeah, that old code clearly does have that wrong behavior in it"
<cyphermox> robru: LeartS: just the test case with the image that fails on most usual screen resolutions is fine
<robru> heh
<cyphermox> it's basically going to be up to the QA team or me or robru to verify it later anyway
<robru> funny how I've used eog for years and never noticed this, even with a widescreen where it's more likely to strike
<LeartS> Someone (is it one of you?) Reviewed the patch upstream
<robru> nope, I don't have any upstream connections...
<robru> for eog at least
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-05-10
<LeartS> cyphermox, robru: updated the bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/eog/+bug/646798
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 646798 in Eye of GNOME "eog window size exceeds screen height" [Medium,Confirmed]
<LeartS> Is it ok?
<LeartS> lol thanks ubot2`
<robru> LeartS, yes, I like it. the simplified description is much easier to understand ;-)
<cyphermox> thanks cool
<LeartS> Should i attach the patch on launchpad?
<cyphermox> well, it's not necessary
<cyphermox> it's clear on the upstream bug :)
 * cyphermox prepares the upload for  the fix
<LeartS> Or shall I? I've never understood the difference
<cyphermox> to do what?
<LeartS> cyphermox: there is a whitespace/tab only line on the first patch I uploaded (I don't know how much you care given it should be temporary)
<LeartS> I mean when to use shall
<LeartS> English in not my mother tongue
<cyphermox> oh
<cyphermox> well, nah that's not big deal, I'll just fix it as I make the package
<cyphermox> LeartS: I meant, if you want to learn packaging I can also let you do it, but that may be more reading for you to do ;)
<LeartS> No, I'll let you do it. I had enough fun for today..
<cyphermox> hehe alright :)
<cyphermox> hmm, seems it's one that is slightly bugged in UDD too
<LeartS> Yeah, I had problems branching the latest realease
<LeartS> It would branch 3.2 :/
<LeartS> 3 days learning baazar, and the first bug I try to fix I can't use it..
<cyphermox> LeartS: that's because lp:ubuntu/eog is out of sync
<cyphermox> we package many gnome desktop thingies in lp:~ubuntu-desktop/<package>/ubuntu
<cyphermox> fix verified...
<cyphermox> so now I'll build the source package and upload
<LeartS> Cool. cyphermox: would you mind uploading a screenshot of eog open with an image that was giving you problems before? I'd like to see if the new behavior is consistant
<cyphermox> ok
<cyphermox> it's pretty agressive with the scaling but that's fine
<cyphermox> http://people.ubuntu.com/~mathieu-tl/Capture%20du%202013-05-09%2020:40:39.png
<cyphermox> LeartS: uploaded to saucy.
<cyphermox> once we get the review I'll upload to raring as well
<cyphermox> but yeah, I expect I'll wake up tomorrow with the email in my inbox
<LeartS> Yeah, I fear that is a remark they could do upstream. I actually never liked how eog would open large images almost maximized and prefer the size now, but I understand that it is subjective and with smaller resolutions it may be a little too much
<cyphermox> good job anyway
<cyphermox> scaling to 0.75 is reasonable anyway
<LeartS> Thanks :)
<cyphermox> otherwise you could possibly try to calculate the scale factor needed to match to the actual screen size
<cyphermox> but yeah, this is fine
<LeartS> well, I already know how to do that.. it came in mind when finding the bug formula
<cyphermox> ok
<cyphermox> bbl, I need to get back home.
<LeartS> Just need to change 0,75 to the inverse of the aspect ratio
<LeartS> Bye!
<LeartS> Bye all!
<robru> cyphermox, home yet? ;-)
<cyphermox> now I am, yes
<cyphermox> robru: want to review one change for me? https://code.launchpad.net/~mathieu-tl/cupstream2distro-config/autopilot-tests-autopilot/+merge/162463
<cyphermox> robru: also https://code.launchpad.net/~mathieu-tl/cupstream2distro-config/unity-gtk-module/+merge/163247 for attente
<cyphermox> robru: rev 299 in stacks/head/webapp.cfg seems very very wrong to me
<cyphermox> hmm
<cyphermox> on the other hand I guess this hook stuff is just for CI
<robru> cyphermox, which one seems wrong? vrruiz did actually make a mistake in there recently, but he reverted it...
<cyphermox> hooks: D09add-ppa~webapps~staging
<cyphermox> it seems to be CI
<cyphermox> it's still a symptom of a badly configured CI setup imho
<robru> cyphermox, yeah, that was for CI. we were having a terrible issue getting the webapps to do CI properly because of a really heinous build-dep/bootstrapping issue.
<cyphermox> robru: so I'm going to start the webapp run now; but still pointing to the next/daily-build-next PPAs with saucy
<robru> cyphermox, eah
<robru> yeah
<robru> cyphermox, I am not certain about that particular line; if you feel it's wrong you should raise that with vrruiz and fginther, they worked on that quite a bit today and that's a small part of what they had to do to get CI even working at all. or maybe that was just a failed attempt that didn't get reverted; I'm not sure
<cyphermox> I brought it up
<cyphermox> I'm sure it's something that can be avoided by changing the CI logic slightly
<cyphermox> ie. grabbing the right build-depends first.
<cyphermox> hmm
<robru> cyphermox, I think probably it won't be an issue once unity-webapps-common 2.4.15 is more widely distributed (eg, once it hits distro). because that version was necessary to have in the CI environment in order for CI to function on webapps (webapps packages need that dep in place even if you're just making the source package)
<cyphermox> though I guess it's build-depends between source packages of a similar stack, so it's fine
<robru> yeah, basically all of the lp:unity-webapps-* branches can't even do a source package build without unity-webapps-common in place (because unity-webapps-common provides the shared debian/rules file used by all webapps packages). so this situation is wreaking havoc on a lot of the tooling; nobody expected that there would be such a thing as a build dep that was needed at source-package-creation time, only at build time ;-)
<cyphermox> ok running now
<robru> cyphermox, so yeah, let me know if any of the stack fails. I'm pretty sure I fixed everything, but there could be a new issue now ;-)
<cyphermox> sure
<cyphermox> well, things are running now
<cyphermox> but all the other stacks triggered, too
<cyphermox> wanna watch webapps yourself? you'll see what explodes in jenkins directly
<robru> is that bad? or just slow?
<robru> yeah
<robru> ok
<cyphermox> here's another for review: https://code.launchpad.net/~mathieu-tl/cupstream2distro-config/master-job-template-sync/+merge/163249
<cyphermox> well, it's not slow
<cyphermox> but all the other stacks started, and some triggered before the prepare jobs started
<robru> I don't understand this review. what's that token and why are we changing it
<robru> ?
<cyphermox> if you look at the queue, before webapps reaches the build stage, it will have to be done triggering a few of the other prepare jobs for things like unity
<cyphermox> robru: it's the issue with cu2d-run
<robru> cyphermox, clearly the original is just a placeholder. is the token not supposed to be secret?
<cyphermox> it's just configuration; I had made an initial fix (the value you see removed) and properly fixing it here
<cyphermox> robru: it's already not secret.
<robru> cyphermox, alright then
<cyphermox> hmm wtf
<robru> what in the hell is libeatmydata?
<cyphermox> for some reason some jobs actually trigger with cu2d-run anyway ?! o.O?
<cyphermox> robru: it's a library that makes things not fsync() and sync() to make them go faster
<robru> cyphermox, well it's awfully broken in jenkins right now
<cyphermox> is it?
<robru> http://10.97.0.1:8080/job/cu2d-webapp-head-1.1prepare-unity-webapps-facebookmessenger/11/console like 80% of this log is errors from it. it's spamming madly
<cyphermox> fun
<cyphermox> well it's not hugely damaging as it is right now
<cyphermox> I'll take note and look into this tomorrow
<cyphermox> I wish I understood what's happening with jenkins... someone must have made changed because starting jobs was definitely failing yesterday, and I could only get them to run with the token change
<cyphermox> I truly don't understand
<robru> cyphermox, uh, go back to that link I just linked... there's some error about saucy there
<cyphermox> someone had to go back and fix the bug
<cyphermox> ok
<robru> cyphermox, it seems the PPA itself is not built for saucy? hrm... with friends stack we didn't encounter this because we just skipped straight to distro
<cyphermox> *sigh*
<cyphermox> it should just work...
<robru> cyphermox, to be honest I'm quite weary of all these jenkins issues, maybe we should just push directly to distro and then fix whatever breakages we may find.
<robru> cyphermox, I don't think anybody could blame us for breaking the dev series in the first month ;-)
<robru> cyphermox, plus, webapps is hardly mission-criticial infrastructure. it's just web chrome ;-)
<cyphermox> right, but I suspect it would fail just as much
<cyphermox> well...
<cyphermox> that shouldn't actually be failing the build either
<robru> cyphermox, are there any saucy packages in the PPA? maybe pushing a saucy package manually would help jenkins along
<cyphermox> meh
<cyphermox> it probably would
<cyphermox> but that's a really crappy way of fixing this ;)
<robru> cyphermox, it would create the index file that jenkins is puking about not having
<cyphermox> yes
<cyphermox> this is so ugly.
<robru> yep.
<cyphermox> alright, I copied ubuntu-unity-next ;)
<robru> hehe
<cyphermox> just waiting until it's actually published and then I'll rerun
<cyphermox> I don't want to just upload to distro -- we have all this tooling to avoid pushing broken stuff, so we might as well use it ;)
<robru> cyphermox, yeah, but it's not the stuff that's broken, it's the tooling ;-)
<cyphermox> only part of it
<cyphermox> only the parts didrocks didn't write himself :P
<cyphermox> actually, scratch that
<cyphermox> this bug we're hitting is one in the scripts didrocks wrote
<cyphermox> possibly even a feature, but I'll track it down tomorrow and file a merge
<robru> cyphermox, fair enough. must be late there
<cyphermox> robru: getting late yet
<cyphermox> *yes
<cyphermox> ok, trying again
<cyphermox> robru: you know, this could actually be caused by the hook..
<robru> which hook? and how?
<robru> oh, the libeatmydata thing?
<cyphermox> oh wait no, it's a different ppa
<robru> cyphermox, yeah, was gonna say, webapps/staging shouldn't have too much crap in it... just webapps stuff
<cyphermox> well, it wasn't about eatmydata
<robru> cyphermox, you lost me. you think having an extra PPA enabled causes jenkins to die of a 404?
<cyphermox> no
<cyphermox> it's just late, I'm tired
<robru> cyphermox, haha, get some sleep. I'm watching the build. it looks like it just got past that 404 now at least
<cyphermox> yeah
<robru> cyphermox, BAH, it's not done yet, but I just saw in the log that it downloaded unity-webapps-common 2.4.14, so basically I can already tell that this is going to fail...
<cyphermox> ok, why?
<cyphermox> things should just work by building from this PPA
<cyphermox> well
<cyphermox> by building from the same archive that it does right now
<cyphermox> otherwise we'll need to do bootstrapping magic
<robru> because all of lp:unity-webapps-* *require* having unity-webapps-common 2.4.15 in order to even think about building. 2.4.14 does not provide rules.mk, and therefore none of the webapps have a debian/rules file.
<cyphermox> well, that's fine for the prepare task
<cyphermox> actually
<robru> cyphermox, does the prepare task build a source package?
<cyphermox> what's that rules.mk file for?
<cyphermox> right
<robru> cyphermox, rules.mk *IS* debian/rules
<cyphermox> so you need it for the OH
<robru> cyphermox, I just provide it from unity-webapps-common since it's identical across all 41 webapps and I didn't want it to be a copy&paste nightmare
<cyphermox> yeah, we'll need to first upload unity-webapps-common to the ubuntu-unity/daily-build-next ppa in that case
<robru> cyphermox, so every webapp just has a 1-line debian/rules that imports rules.mk
<cyphermox> hmm
<robru> cyphermox, yeah, but I thought didrocks did that already.
<cyphermox> ah, maybe for raring
<robru> crap
<cyphermox> ok, yeah it's there for raring
<robru> unity-webapps-common 2.4.15 is so utterly critical that we should really bump it to version 3.0
<cyphermox> that's up to you
<robru> yeah, I'll talk that over with webapps guys tomorrow
<cyphermox> ok, so there will be some magic needed to properly depend on that package then for the build
<robru> cyphermox, by magic do you mean "we need to upload a saucy build of 2.4.15"?
<cyphermox> well, that too :)
<robru> cyphermox, what else is required?
<cyphermox> no issues here with eatmydata btw, so it's got to be special to the pbuilder chroot used or whatnot
<cyphermox> in the daily-build-next all of this should depwait until u-w-c is built, but it won't because I'll need to upload a copy of u-w-c to the ppa first in order for things to successfully prepare
<robru> cyphermox, yep
<cyphermox> robru: I guess it's fine, yeah I'll have to copy the package to saucy in that ppa as well
<cyphermox> robru: actually, I don't
<cyphermox> robru: http://10.97.0.1:8080/view/cu2d/view/Head/view/WebApps/job/cu2d-webapp-head-1.1prepare-webapps-applications/13/
<cyphermox> watch this one; at the end, it should upload directly to ubuntu-unity/daily-build-next
<cyphermox> in which case you'll get the package in saucy properly
<robru> cyphermox, right, then just run the whole stack again?
<cyphermox> then we can do another run again, yes
<robru> cyphermox, but wait, won't it fail the whole stack?
<cyphermox> it will fail everything else yeah, and not run through the build task
<robru> cyphermox, jenkins will hold back the whole stack upon any single failure, so webapps-applications won't get publisehd
<cyphermox> it will still be uploaded and actually build on the ppa
<cyphermox> nah, it will
<robru> ok....
<cyphermox> in ubuntu-unity/daily-build-next only
<cyphermox> not in ubuntu-unity/next
<cyphermox> daily-build-next is just scratch space for the builds
<cyphermox> everything is copied to their final destination after, and IIF the autopilot tests pass
<robru> ok
<cyphermox> that said, I'll do a rerun in my morning
<cyphermox> in 6-7 hours
<robru> cyphermox, great
<robru> cyphermox, thanks
<cyphermox> np
<cyphermox> so, if anything happens send me an email
<robru> cyphermox, ok. just about dinner time for me, I'll check it when I get back
<cyphermox> ok
<cyphermox> as for the token stuff, I don't know what happened
<cyphermox> I'll need to ask retoaded in the morning, I'm convinced something was modified, I could trace the packets and see that something wasn't right
<cyphermox> jenkins was definitely telling me to bugger off and that I had wrong credentials
<cyphermox> maybe the extra permissions they gave me are now kicking in and didn't before
<robru> cyphermox, no idea
<pitti> Good morning
<robru> pitti, hello!
<Mirv> hello
<pitti> hey robru, how are you?
<robru> pitti, getting by I suppose
<robru> pitti, how's germany treating you?
<pitti> robru: that doesn't sound too good?
<robru> pitti, yeah, things are rough now, not gonna lie. gf of 4 years just broke up with me. :-/
<pitti> robru: pretty well; we had a nice hike yesterday (national holiday)
<pitti> robru: argh, I'm sorry to hear that; that's terrible!
<robru> it's ok
<robru> hike sounds sweet. I've always wanted to visit germany. we should plan the next sprint for there!
<RAOF> I'd go for a Berlin sprint.
<robru> RAOF, yeah!
<pitti> we had one there, although in the least fashionable part of the cicy
<pitti> city
<pitti> but the go-kart race was awesome :)
<robru> pitti, yes, well, that seems to be the modus operandi around here ;-)
<robru> (i mean, oakland is the least-fashionable part of SFO ;-)
<pitti> heh, yes
<pitti> as long as it's easy to get to the good parts
<darkxst> are the category labels (left-hand pane) in software-center, required to have text wrapping?
<pitti> darkxst: I uploaded the systemd SRU you requested FYI
<darkxst> pitti, thanks ;)
<darkxst> pitti, I will add the SRU paperwork a little later
<cyphermox> pitti, robru, sprint in Montreal where you could not do it anywhere near the least fashionable parts
<cyphermox> ;)
<pitti> hehe -- UBZ in 2005!
<pitti> ("Ubuntu Below Zero")
<cyphermox> yeah
<cyphermox> except ATM its ua35
<sil2100> cyphermox: hi! Did you re-deploy the QA stack in the end?
<sil2100> cyphermox: since I want to know if I forgot something in the config or not... ;)
<Mirv> sil2100: did you figure out which version of autopilot is being run via jenkins?
<Mirv> I now see some autopilot 1.3 test changes have been merged in trunk, and some not
<sil2100> Mirv: it *should* use 1.3 now, since that's what's in the PPA and Francis fixed the jenkins job to do a proper upgrade
<sil2100> Mirv: and from one job I saw, it seems that it's indeed using 1.3 already
<sil2100> Mirv: yep, at least the OIF stack is using 1.3 - so I think it's the same for all
<Mirv> sil2100: ok, good, better that way, now we just need to merge remaining fixes / do more fixes to run on 1.3
 * sil2100 just got a failure by success
<sil2100> attente_: hi! Once you're here, I re-merged trunk into that 1.3 autopilot branch -> https://code.launchpad.net/~sil2100/unity-gtk-module/autopilot_1.3_modifications/+merge/163203
<sil2100> attente_: if you want to test it with autopilot 1.3, we have the latest autopilot in our daily-build-next PPA
<sil2100> attente_: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-unity/+archive/daily-build-next
<sil2100> attente_: if you want to test it on 1.3, after adding that PPA install/upgrade autopilot-desktop and unity-autopilot
<sil2100> fginther: ping once you're here
<LeartS> When trying to connect to pad.ubuntu.com, It says: "PAD has requested some personal information. Please choose what you would like to share:" but there is nothing I can check, and if I click on "Yes, log me in" it says that I have not granted access ..
<czajkowski> LeartS: are you part of the etherpad team ?
<czajkowski> LeartS: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-etherpad
<LeartS> No, I just saw the link in the channel topic and paid a visit :)
<LeartS> What's the etherpad team?
<LeartS> It has a lot of members!
<czajkowski> it does we use it for UDS for note takig
<czajkowski> *taking
<LeartS> UDS = Ubuntu Development ?
<czajkowski> summit
<czajkowski> uds.ubuntu.com
<fginther> sil2100, pong
<attente_> sil2100, thanks
<LeartS> czajkowski, robru: the patch has been accepted upstream.
<czajkowski> nout to do with me
<attente> sil2100, i'm getting the following: ImportError: cannot import name get_compiz_option
<attente> this is with a 1.3 version of autopilot-desktop
<attente> and python-autopilot
<LeartS> ops, sorry czajkowski ! I meant cyphermox
<sil2100> attente: did you install latest unity-autopilot?
<attente> ah, that's still coming from archive, thanks
<LeartS> Can I force a remote bug watch update on launchpad?
<fginther> sil2100, ping?
<sil2100> fginther: ah!
<sil2100> fginther: morning!
<sil2100> Didn't notice your pong ;) Sorry, been eating
<sil2100> fginther: ok, so, I actually have two things related to generic job again... :<
<sil2100> fginther: let me pastebin the question I poked Martin with already
<sil2100> fginther: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5651092/
<fginther> sikon, ok
<fginther> sikon, sorry, wrong id
<fginther> sil2100, ok
<sil2100> fginther: it's related to the recent AP test runs failing quickly, in mid-test
<fginther> sil2100, have you talked to the utah guys?
<sil2100> fginther: not yet, but you think it's mostly utah at fault? Since it's happening since like a few days already maybe
<fginther> sil2100, I don't know yet, just wondering if they've had a look yet
<fginther> sil2100, did #328 fail for the same reason?
<sil2100> fginther: I checked and I'm not sure, as it was able to execute all tests it was said to
<sil2100> Since there aren't too many for the OIF stack
<sil2100> fginther: probably yes, as there's the same message: "Build step 'Execute shell' marked build as failure"
<attente> sil2100: i'm still having the same problem, even with the updated python-autopilot
<attente> can you tell me what versions of autopilot-desktop, python-autopilot and unity-autopilot you're using?
<sil2100> autopilot-desktop: 1.3daily13.05.08ubuntu.unity.next-0ubuntu1, python-autopilot: 1.3daily13.05.08ubuntu.unity.next-0ubuntu1 and unity built locally yesterday from trunk, so actually 7.0.0daily13.05.08ubuntu.unity.next-0ubuntu1 should be fine
<sil2100> As it's working for the auto-builders
<sil2100> attente: I saw an error message like this before, but it disappeared when the new unity-autopilot package appeared in the PPA
<attente> sil2100, the index for the packages in saucy has the unity-autopilot package fixed to an older one 7.0.0daily13.05.01.1ubuntu.unity.next-0ubuntu1
<attente> is there a way for you to update it?
<sil2100> Ah, saucy!
 * sil2100 is still on raring
<attente> ;)
<sil2100> Since the daily-release machines are still running on raring ;)
<sil2100> Ok, but that explains all - you can simply do a bzr bd on lp:unity and temporarily install unity-autopilot from the generated packages
<attente> sure
<sil2100> Thanks! I would put it up somewhere, the package that is, but I just recently removed it when cleaning up my workspace ;p
<bashrc> I wonder if anyone can advise me on how to get an application into the messaging menu
<sil2100> robru: give me a ping when you're around
<bashrc> I'm basing the messaging code on http://developer.ubuntu.com/resources/technologies/messaging-menu/
<bashrc> with appropriate .desktop file and window showing function
<bashrc> but nothing appears on the messaging menu
<bashrc> any ideas on why not?
<bashrc> (tumbleweeds roll by)
<bashrc> (wind whistles gently)
<sil2100> ;)
<czajkowski> bashrc: patience people are working and  may not be looknig at irc
 * ogra_ hands bashrc a kite ... 
<bashrc> ok, I'll try not to disturb the sleep
<czajkowski> bashrc: or work :)
<czajkowski> people do work
<czajkowski> oh an ogra_ ello
<bashrc> (mars rover moves slowly across the landscape)
<ogra_> hey czajkowski
<sil2100> hehehe
<mitya57> bashrc: that guide is outdated, one should use libmessagingmenu instead
<bashrc> ok
<mitya57> (probably dpm can remove/update that)
<dpm> hi mitya57, what's up?
<mitya57> bashrc: there is some HTML documentation in libmessaging-menu-dev package
<bashrc> ok
<bashrc> well hidden
<mitya57> dpm: code on http://developer.ubuntu.com/resources/technologies/messaging-menu/ is outdated and does not work in >= quantal
<bashrc> I see
<dpm> mitya57, ah, thanks. Would you mind filing a bug and pointing to the changes required?
<bashrc> ok
<mitya57> dpm: just remove that page. I can try to write a better example if you want, but not today
<bashrc> To be clear, what should I file a bug against in Launchpad?
<mitya57> I'm filing it myself
<bashrc> ok
<mitya57> bashrc, dpm: bug 1178700
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1178700 in Ubuntu App Developer site "Python code snippets are outdated and don't work" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1178700
<bashrc> Thanks.  https://github.com/Bitmessage/PyBitmessage/issues/135#issuecomment-17724056
<dpm> thanks mitya57
<mitya57> bashrc: I can suggest you to use https://code.launchpad.net/unity-mail as an example of working code
<bashrc> ok I'll check it out
<sil2100> fginther: can I have one more request? In some free moment - since lp:unity-gtk-module doesn't seem to have autolanding enabled
<sil2100> fginther: we want to add it to daily-release
<fginther> sil2100, I think cyphermox was working on that
<cyphermox> sil2100: there's a merge for that
<cyphermox> or did I forget to file the merge and just do the change locally
<sil2100> cyphermox: awesome
<sil2100> robru: piiing?
<sil2100> cyphermox: about the QA stack redeployment... did you redeploy in the end?
<cyphermox> I missed that it seems
<cyphermox> I was fighting issues with webapps
<cyphermox> sil2100: it ran today though
<sil2100> cyphermox: ok, since in the morning I didn't see the check job I added, so I was wondering if I screwed something up in the config
<desrt> mterry: so... ~/.cache/music is a thing now
<desrt> my music library from my media server, so i can carry it around with me
<desrt> symlinked from ~/Music/Library -> ~/.cache/music
<mterry> desrt, ok.  you see a problem?
<desrt> no
<desrt> it's glorious
<desrt> i love it
<mterry> desrt, ah  :)  A happy tale
<desrt> well
<desrt> i'll see a problem if dejadup decides to follow that symlink :)
<desrt> but i think it doesn't
<mterry> desrt, that's nice.  Is that a setup you made or something a program does for you?
<desrt> mterry: i made it... i'm thinking about scripting it a bit, though
<mterry> desrt, no it won't, unless you point directly at a symlink in includes/excludes
<desrt> most of my music collection is flac
<cyphermox> sil2100: what job?
<desrt> i have this program called flacsync that whacks it down to .ogg files
<desrt> and i have only the oggs on my laptop
<mterry> desrt, ah nice
<sil2100> cyphermox: in the QA stack, since I added autopilot tests so theoretically cu2d-qa-head-2.2check should appear in QA Head, but I don't see the job there
<sil2100> cyphermox: are we ready for announcing the touch components daily-releasing, or are there some problems still?
<sil2100> robru: ^ ?
<cyphermox> sil2100: not everything is done being prepared
<cyphermox> sil2100: sorry, guess i misunderstood -- I updated the qa stack you'll have the check job now
<cyphermox> I'll do a rerun now
<cyphermox> do you know what python-upa is?
<robru> cyphermox, I see you ran webapps again this morning and it's failed again. I'm looking at the logs though and I don't see it even trying to do anything useful -- it just pukes early on, before all the deps are even installed.
<robru> cyphermox, so I think something is really fishy with the jenkins server. who should we ping on that? mmrazik?
<tkamppeter> jasoncwarner, hi
<cyphermox> robru: it fails in many ways. retoaded may be able to help
<robru> cyphermox, ok. well I'm officially off today so if you could try to pester some people about that it would be super. I'm still reasonably confident that the stack is in good shape for landing, it's just jenkins itself that is very broken
<cyphermox> yes
<robru> off to the beach!
<cyphermox> kenvandine: around?
<cyphermox> kenvandine: I need help with a few MPs if you have time
<cyphermox> https://code.launchpad.net/~mathieu-tl/cupstream2distro-config/python-upa-daily-false/+merge/163348
<kenvandine> cyphermox, sure
<bashrc> Making progress on the messaging menu
<bashrc> is there a way to prevent an application selected on the messaging menu from opening more than one instance?
<larsu> bashrc: yes, make the app single instance
<bashrc> is there a way to do that in python?
<larsu> certainly. Are you using gapplication?
<larsu> oh wait, are you using gtk at all?
<bashrc> It's Qt
<bashrc> Qt4
<larsu> hm, I don't know a lot about qt...
<larsu> a quick google seasrch brings up QtSingleApplication, but it seems to be some kind of addon, not included with qt4
<bashrc> ok
<bashrc> Anyway, I have the messaging menu mostly working now
<geser> given a package (razorqt) synced from Debian which build-depends on liblightdm-qt-dev (doesn't exist in Ubuntu): is replacing this build-dependency with liblightdm-qt-3-dev and have pkg-config check for liblightdm-qt-3 (instead of liblightdem-qt-2) the right "fix" to let the package build?
<bashrc> one curious thing is when selecting an item (number of unread messages) it then disappears
<larsu> bashrc: that's by design
<bashrc> ok, but I'm not sure I follow
<larsu> the messaging menu should only show sources that have unread stuff in it. When clicking, your app should present a window showing the unread items
<bashrc> From the design standpoint should I be showing mail folders with numbers of unread messages, or individual messages?
<larsu> which messaging menu are we talking about, the one on the desktop or on the phone?
<bashrc> desktop
<larsu> show mail folders on the desktop (but be aware that this might change soon)
<bashrc> ok.  If I show folders with unread messages, then select it it doesn't necessarily imply that all unread messages have been read
<bashrc> intuitively it doesn't make much sense for it to disappear if there are more than a single unread message
<larsu> it's more about "new" messages than it is about "unread" messages
<larsu> there's a good explanation of it here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MessagingMenu#Recommended_behavior_for_e-mail_clients
<bashrc> ok, so I should only be showing anything that's new
<larsu> exactly
<bashrc> Ok I think I understand how it's intended to work now
<mlankhorst> Laney: biked 80 km today ;P
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-05-11
<robru> cyphermox, still need me to file that SRU? or did you get do it already?
<Laney> mlankhorst: impressive
<Laney> meanwhile i got some spds and spent a lot of time falling off / being scared that i would fall off
<darkxst_> Laney, spds are the best ;)
<darkxst_> I cant ride without them anymore ;)
<darkxst_> mind you I can barely walk either after todays epic
<bashrc> To display notifications should I be using pynotify in 13.04?
<mlankhorst> Laney: ah I'm on a normal bike, my muscles are lagging behind my heart/lung machine though, I need to do more excercise at high near my limits :/
<bashrc> Are pynotify and MessagingMenu mutually exclusive?
<bashrc> Does anyone know if pynotify should be used on 13.04.  It seems to be somehow mutually exclusive with MessagingMenu.
<bashrc> Is pynotify still relevant in 13.04, or am I just chasing something that's out of date again?
<mitya57> bashrc: pynotify was deprecated long time ago :)
<bashrc> heh
<mitya57> you should use either libnotify via gobject-introspection or python-notify2
<bashrc> so what is the new hotness?
<bashrc> there is something called gi.repository in UnityMail
<bashrc> but no documentation for it
<mitya57> yeah, that's gobject-introspection
<mitya57> https://live.gnome.org/GObjectIntrospection
<bashrc> By looking at UnityMail and some chatlogs, I figured out how to implement the messaging menu, but initiating notoifications remains elusive
<bashrc> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/devweek1208/libmessagingmenu
<mitya57> notifications are very simple:
<mitya57> from gi.repository import Notify
<mitya57> n = Notify.Notification(title, text, icon)
<mitya57> n.show()
<mitya57> ... and that's all
<bashrc> ok that looks easy
<mitya57> you can use None if you don't need text or icon
<mitya57> https://pypi.python.org/pypi/notify2 works in a very similar way, and it doesn't require a dependency on gobject-introspection
<mitya57> (but it needs D-Bus instead)
<bashrc> I've no idea what D-Bus is
<mitya57> http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/dbus
<bashrc> ok
<bashrc> what are the icon types for Notify.Notification ?
<bashrc> with pynotify I was using notification-message-email
<mitya57> bashrc: it's icon name, string
<mitya57> 'notification-message-email' should work
<bashrc> ok
<bashrc> are you sutre the function is Notify.Notification?
<bashrc> *sure
<bashrc> I'm getting an error which indicates that Notify.Notification takes 0 arguments
<bashrc> TypeError
<LeartS> Hi Guys. Could someone look and approve/disapprove this patch? https://code.launchpad.net/~andyrock/unity/fix-dnd-alttab
<LeartS> It's a fix for bug 111939, 6 years old, fixed on metacity and mutter but not compiz / unity
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 111939 in unity (Ubuntu) "Alt-Tab - Not possible to alt-tab during a drag-and-drop operation" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/111939
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 6 in Launchpad itself ""next 10 entries" at bottom of page" [Medium,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/6
<LeartS> poor ubot2` , he tought 6 was a bug :(
<mitya57> bashrc: ah, sorry, you should use Notify.Notification.New(...)
<mitya57> err, .new (lowercase)
<bashrc> ok
<bashrc> new Notify.Notification?  I just get an invalid syntax error
<mitya57> LeartS: try asking on Monday on #ubuntu-unity, there will be more chance you'll find someone who can do that
<mitya57> bashrc: Notify.Notification.new(...)
<bashrc> ah, sorry
<LeartS> ok mitya57, thanks :)
<bashrc> "you must call notify_init() before showing"
<mitya57> bashrc: ah, I forgot that you should call Notify.init(your_app_name) before anything else
<bashrc> by jove I do believe it works.  Messaging menu and notifications.
<bashrc> But, like Columbo, there just one more thing that's bothering me.  On the messaging menu when you select a mailbox entry is there a function which can be called based upon that event?
<mitya57> bashrc: yes, for example unity-mail does self.mmapp.connect('activate-source', self.on_mm_item_clicked)
<bashrc> ok.  And that applies to the mailboxes in addition to the server entry?
<mitya57> bashrc: IIRC in libmessaging-menu there's no distinction between "server" and "client" entries â everything is called "sources"
<bashrc> oh I see
<mitya57> maybe larsu knows better
<bashrc> So I think that covers the Unity integration. Thanks for your assistance.
<mitya57> you are welcome
<bashrc> Is there any programatic way to set a keyboard shortcut to open an application?  Can it be done in a .desktop file?
<LeartS> bashrc: when the application is not running? I hope not..
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-05-12
<hgri89> hello
<LeartS> Hi guys. Could someone look and approve/disapprove this patch? https://code.launchpad.net/~andyrock/unity/fix-dnd-alttab. It's a fix for bug 111939, which is 6 years old, fixed on metacity and mutter but not compiz/unity, high heat.
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 111939 in unity (Ubuntu) "Alt-Tab - Not possible to alt-tab during a drag-and-drop operation" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/111939
<LeartS> (It's not mine, I just saw is there and requested approval some days ago)
<userr> chat clients disconnect (after a while) when i switch to another Xorg server (by using ctrl+alt+F8). how does the former Xorg server ("at F7") tell that i switched away from it? i need to suppress that.
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-05-05
<pitti> Good morning
<darkxst> hey pitti
<mlankhor1t> Hello, world!\n
<seb128> good morning desktopers!
<bigon> pitti: hey, I know this might be a bit OT here, but now that gdm/lightdm/kdm are logind aware (and thus not registering a ck session anymore) shouldn't be the nox11 option be removed from the call to the ck pam module?
<pitti> bigon: TBH I don't even remember any more what that does
<bigon> pitti: the nox11 prevent the pam module to register a session if a DISPLAY is set
<darkxst> bigon, gdm/gnome-shell still work with ck in theory, you just loose a bunch of features
<bigon> well in debian since yesterday in unstable, it is compiled with logind support
<bigon> and ck-list-session is empty
<bigon> that's why I think that the nox11 should be remove
<bigon> d
<darkxst> bigon, right, if its built with logind, ck can go
<bigon> indeed, I'm running a ck-free desktop now
<pitti> bigon: I guess in that case we might rather remove ck altogether?
<darkxst> pitti, seems about right, its really only need on !linux now
<bigon> yes indeed !linux
<bigon> and application that really require ck with no support of logind
<bigon> so ck should stay
<bigon> unfortunately
<pitti> ah right
<pitti> perhaps only build CK on !linux theN?
<bigon> http://codesearch.debian.net/search?q=org.freedesktop.ConsoleKit
<bigon> there are other pkg that are using exclusively ck that run on linux too
<bigon> but like I said ATM there is no session registred with gdm3 (and logind support enabled)
<bigon> I'm wondering if it's also the case with lightdm and such
<bigon> that's why I was proposing to let the pam module register the session instead of the DM itself
<bigon> I'll open a bug for this in debian BTS
<seb128> hum
<seb128> didrocks, larsu, pitti: is anyone having issues with the canonical sites (irc, imap server)?
<didrocks> seb128: hum, no issue here for now
<seb128> hum, k
<larsu> seb128: irc works fine. I don't use their imap anymore
<seb128> the lag-o-meter on IRC keeps increasing here
<larsu> I've had some lag earlier today, but not right now
<seb128> k
<seb128> oh, just got disconnected, weird
<darkxst> hey seb128
<darkxst> Bug 1299912
<darkxst> (the bots are dead?)
<seb128> darkxst, hey
<seb128> not sure about the bots
<seb128> thanks, that's in the sponsoring queue right?
<seb128> I saw the email, but I'm still in backlog from the w.e
<seb128> right, it is
<darkxst> seb128, trusty part is atleast
<darkxst> seems merges against ubuntu-desktop don't show up in the queue?
<darkxst> well it is there this time though
<seb128> not sure how the sponsoring page is generated
<seb128> it might depends of who is set as reviewer
<pitti> seb128: IRC works quite fine here; I don't use Canonical email; canonicaladmin also WFM
<seb128> pitti, thanks, I'm still in lag-o-meter land on the IRC, go figure
<darkxst> seb128, no lag here, from this side of the world ;)
<seb128> darkxst, the issues I have are on the Canonical infra, not on the public IRC
<darkxst> oh ok
<seb128> well I got reconnected and now lag is to 0 again
<seb128> let's see if it resolves itself over the day
<mlankhorst> mvo: it might theoretically be possible to run without the backported kernel, but it's not a supported path
<dpm> hey morgen pitti, I read you had a nice and productive systemd/GNOME sprint :-)
<pitti> hey dpm
<pitti> dpm: I did, thanks!
<pitti> dpm: I haven't gotten around to your mail yet, sorry; last week was full of firefighting
<dpm> pitti, no worries, it's nothing urgent atm for MAE, as we're shipping the Simplified Chinese langpack on the phone anyway, but I'm trying to get the wheels moving to have a good i18n story for the phone - thanks!
<Sweet5hark> hi there
<mlankhorst> does unity do anything with xinput touch events?
<darkxst> seb128, ok to bump dep on gnome-settings-daemon-schemas to (< 3.12) in unity-settings-daemon, its causing problems with our PPA's
<darkxst> I promise I won't break anything in the updates when they land ;)
<seb128> darkxst, what is the version used atm?
<seb128> darkxst, we added it because the new version of g-s-d was changing keys in an incompatible way and generating abort reports that were starting ranking high on e.u.c
<darkxst> seb128, its currently          gnome-settings-daemon-schemas (>= 3.8),
<darkxst>          gnome-settings-daemon-schemas (<< 3.10),
<seb128> we need a 3.10 that doesn't drop keys before relaxing that <<
<darkxst> seb128, which g-s-d was causing errors?
<seb128> 3.10
<darkxst> seb128, there are no public 3.10 packages on trusty as yet?
<seb128> well, ricotz had some in a ppa
<seb128> and that was creating quite some reports on e.u.c
<darkxst> oh, right
<seb128> that's why I added the <<
<darkxst> his packages are probably just git snapshots
<darkxst> the packaging I did had reverted all key removals
<seb128> could have been https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-settings-daemon/commit/data?h=gnome-3-10&id=1709bf58a60b76bce77038bb804991447d215f49
<seb128> the issue is that we can't tell yours with the revert and ricotz's one appart :/
<seb128> well I guess users running a ppa with git snapshot get what they opted in for then
<ricotz> seb128, hi, i dont remember doing a snapshot of g-s-d for quite some cyclesand my ppas doesnt contain one, do you happen to find the offending package?
<seb128> ricotz, it was maybe simply a 3.10 version from upstream
<seb128> they dropped keys from their schemas there
<seb128> e.g https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-settings-daemon/commit/data?h=gnome-3-10&id=1709bf58a60b76bce77038bb804991447d215f49
<ricotz> seb128, i know, i am curious where the package came from
<seb128> I don't remember, one of your ppas
<ricotz> i guess it could be gnome3-team/gnome3: gnome-settings-daemon - 3.10.2-0ubuntu1~saucy6
<ricotz> darkxst, ^?
<darkxst> maybe, that had http://pastebin.com/U69RM6ww
<darkxst> which I suppose never made it into u-s-d in the end
<darkxst> same patch is likely in our 3.12 packages
<darkxst> although the actual key in seb128 link was likely fallout from the ibus update
<darkxst> which shouldnt affect u-s-d?
<seb128> https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/d7ee33f4be4368596fc6c3afbfab8604799370a8
<seb128> was the issue iirc
<seb128> https://errors.ubuntu.com/oops/7e0c117e-c6e9-11e3-9099-fa163e707a72
<seb128> gnome-settings-daemon-schemas 3.12.0.1-0ubuntu1~trusty1 [origin: LP-PPA-gnome3-team-gnome3-staging]
<seb128> ricotz, ^ they had stuff with "origin: LP-PPA-ricotz-testing" but the g-s-d-s was from the gnome3 ppa it seems
<seb128> but it has been some time I don't remember the specifics
<ricotz> seb128, yeah, i see, i was assuming that
<ricotz> darkxst, this suggests that the problem persists with the latest g-s-d upload then
<darkxst> yes its related to the upower port
 * ricotz didn't look at those links since it requires some u1 login again
<darkxst> ricotz my first link was unrelated
<darkxst> I think this is what is the issue
<darkxst> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=709736
<seb128> yes it is
<bigon> if I'm correctly looking at lightdm, it both create a logind and ck session when available
<bigon> is this correct?
<mlankhorst> hm looks like i can produce a lot of xorg-server spew by simply using my touchpad through evdev instead of synaptics
<Fudge> darkxst:  glib-2.0 finally came to the party but now something weird that I dont understand with pygobject, just amd64 https://launchpadlibrarian.net/174588843/buildlog_ubuntu-precise-amd64.pygobject_3.8.0-2%7Evinux1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<Fudge> if you're busy though, I understand :)
<darkxst> Fudge, test_add_watch_no_data (test_iochannel.IOChannel) ... /bin/bash: line 4:  2884 Segmentation fault      PYTHONPATH=..:../tests:${PYTHONPATH:+:$PYTHONPATH} LD_LIBRARY_PATH=./.libs:$LD_LIBRARY_PATH GI_TYPELIB_PATH=.:$GI_TYPELIB_PATH XDG_DATA_DIRS=$XDG_DATA_DIRS:/usr/share MALLOC_PERTURB_=85 MALLOC_CHECK_=3 G_SLICE=debug-blocks TESTS_BUILDDIR=. /usr/bin/python2.7-dbg -Wd ../../tests/runtests.py
<Fudge> darkxst:  forgive me if that is a solution as I dont understand how to implement it
<darkxst> Fudge, that is the error
<darkxst> I have no idea why its crashing!
<Fudge> oh right, always something for me, things love to crash :D
<darkxst> Fudge try running the tests locally and see if you can get a backtrace!
<darkxst> it may just be a missing dep, but can't really say from the log message
<Fudge> thank you for taking the time :), I'll try tomorrow
<darkxst> bt
<bigon> pitti: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=747071 << if you care about the ck-ectomie
<pitti> bigon: I'm not quite sure how to do that in CK -- the session needs to be registered by a CK client, i. e. PAM-ck or the DM
<pitti> bigon: IMHO DMs should use CK on !linux and logind on linux, and we stop supporting CK on linux?
<bigon> GDM is not registring the session, looking at lightdm code, this one is still doing so
<bigon> not sure about KDM
<bigon> if we only want to support ck on !linux then indeed things are way more simple
<pitti> bigon: hm, reconsidering -- I think it makes more sense to do that dynamically and ignore the platform
<pitti> bigon: i. e. try logind, and if that fails, fall back to registering a CK session
<pitti> bigon: that mirrors what e. g. g-settings-daemon is doing, and opens the possibility that the logind API gets a shim (or otherwise implemented) in bsd
<bigon> gdm is doing that too
<bigon> well gdm is registering a logind session and then falls back to ck
<bigon> but not both
<pitti> that seems fine?
<mlankhorst> ok that XI bug is annoying :P
<Sweet5hark> seb128: around?
<Sweet5hark> Anyone from bugcontrol here? Could you please nominate bug 1316243 for precise?
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-05-06
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> Sweetshark: done
<mlankhorst> Hello, world!\n
<ochosi> morning desktopers
<ochosi> who can i bribe to help us get a patch for gtk2 into trusty (that causes a lot of headache for xubuntu users)?
<ochosi> morning seb128
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> hey ochosi
<ochosi> what could i do to get a gtk2 bug fixed in trusty? (patch has already been applied upstream)
<ochosi> it's a bug that affects xubuntu especially, as it crashes our file-manager a lot
<seb128> ochosi, attach the patch to a bug, subscribe ubuntu-sponsors
<ochosi> (the patch is tiny and trivial)
<seb128> bonus point if you file the SRU info on the bug
<ochosi> ok :)
<ochosi> this is the bugreport with the patch, fyi: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=723366
<ochosi> thanks for the heads up seb128, will try to get that done
<seb128> ochosi, thanks
<skystar84> Hi. I have a question? When I trying burn disc with Ubuntu from Windows UltraISO, I getting one folder EFI. Thats repeat also with "Unetbootin".
<skystar84> How can I write normally install iso to dvd disc?
<skystar84> EFI folder size 2.294 has only 2.2 mb
<seb128> hey, try #ubuntu for user questions
<darkxst> seb128, hi
<seb128> darkxst, hey
<darkxst> seb128, bug 1316383
<seb128> saw that, thanks
<darkxst> logo patch was pita with gresources ;( but done now
<ochosi> seb128: hey, i've never done a SRU before, would you mind taking a look whether this is ok or whether i messed up? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+2.0/+bug/1316509
<seb128> ochosi, that looks great, thanks!
<seb128> ochosi, just subscribe ubuntu-sponsors as well and you are gold ;-)
<ochosi> seb128: great, thanks for taking a look!
<seb128> yw!
<darkxst> ochosi, that patch should really go upstream ;)
<ochosi> darkxst: i agree, but what're you gonna do...
<ochosi> i mean the patch was even written for gtk2 originally
<ochosi> so meh
<darkxst> ochosi, gtk-2 is still maintained to some extent
<darkxst> you should file a bug on bugzilla.g.o with the patch
<ochosi> did you look at the upstream bugreport i linked?
<ochosi> it *was* filed there and against gtk2
<ochosi> they just chose not to apply it
<ochosi> instead here: https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/commit/gtk/gtkmountoperation.c?h=gtk-3-12&id=05f2f634260519b5448ffd53e8883412c0251443
<ochosi> don't think filing another bugreport is going to make them change their mind
<darkxst> oh missed that
<ochosi> i dunno, if you have good ties to gtk devs, it'd be nice if you could mention it again to them
<ochosi> it's really a no-brainer, that patch and it would be nice if ubuntu wasn't the only distro carrying the fix
<darkxst> ochosi, they did not reject the patch, they said to remove the comment!
<ochosi> they did remove the comment in the commit i linked to above
<ochosi> and they set the bugreport to "fixed"
<darkxst> there is absolutely no reason why that can't be cherry-picked to gtk2
<darkxst> just ask on the bug report!
<ochosi> i will
<ricotz> ochosi, darkxst, since mclasen accepted it he assumed the reporter can push it
<ochosi> i'm not on a gtk-rant, but what i said still applies ;)
<darkxst> ricotz, thats clear to me ;)
<ochosi> the patch *was* written for gtk2 and only applied against gtk3
<ochosi> i hope comments on bugreports that are marked as "fixed" are even read...
<ricotz> ochosi, this happens just point it out, or ping mclasen and push it yourself
<ochosi> sure, did already add a comment
<ricotz> good
<ochosi> s/did/have/ s/add/added/
<ochosi> anyhoo, if any of you can help with SRUing this to trusty even before it gets merged upstream, that be extremely nice
<ricotz> ochosi, btw, better add a proper patch with header to the sru bug
<ochosi> it really severly affects xubuntu and ubuntu-studio users (as can be seen from the tons of duplicates the thunar bugreport has i linked to)
<ricotz> e.g. a git format-patch
<darkxst> ochosi, and it has to go through utopic first!
<ochosi> well as i said before, this is my first SRU
<ochosi> gotta have some patience with me :)
<ochosi> ricotz: i'm not sure i know how to do a proper git patch against gtk2 unless you mean cloning the gtk2 repo (which would take forever, i'm behind a *really* slow connection atm)
<ochosi> darkxst: but sponsors are already subscribed, do i need to do anything else for this to go to utopic?
<darkxst> ochosi, unless you find a really nice sponsor, you should prepare a debdiff using the upstream (gtk3) patch
<ochosi> darkxst: i don't even know how to prepare a debdiff, so i'll go on hoping for a really nice sponsor...
<darkxst> ochosi, do you guys have any devs?
<ochosi> not really :/
<ochosi> that was our biggest trouble in the trusty cycle
<ochosi> and why we had to push everything through the sponsors queue
<ochosi> anyhoo, i can see whether i can find someone to do the debdiff if the "really nice sponsor" doesn't materialize out of thin air
<ricotz> ochosi, did you test the gtk3 version of the fix
<ricotz> ochosi, it applies cleanly on gtk-2-24 - http://paste.debian.net/plain/97737
<ochosi> ricotz: no, gtk3 didn't affect us at all
<ricotz> hmm, read again
<ricotz> ochosi, what i mean the fix mclasen pushed to gtk3 works as it is on gtk2
<ochosi> yes, i know
<ricotz> at least it applies and compiles, so testing it would be nice
<ochosi> ricotz: ali1234 is the one who dug this up
<ali1234> o/
<ali1234> i've been chaing this bug for months
<ali1234> it's the biggest crasher in xubuntu by far... actually it's like 9 out of the top 10
<ali1234> and it's in the top 10 for all ubuntu as well
<ali1234> according to e.u.c
<ali1234> and we've never been able to reproduce it because it's a really fiddly memory corruption
<ali1234> but someone found a way yesterday
<ochosi> ricotz: ali1234 also boiled the bug down to this little thingy here: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7403729/
<darkxst> ochosi, ali1234 if you make a proper debdiff it will get sponsored no issues!
<profesor__> hola
<profesor__> me pica el pene
<ali1234> darkxst: i can make a debdiff but i can't guarantee it will be "proper"
<darkxst> ali1234, just make a debdiff with a changelog entry and the upstream patch (from gtk3)!
<ali1234> okay. the upstream patch also fixes an unrelated memory leak in a nearby closely-related function. it's also trivial and i think we should sneak it in too...
<profesor__> holi
<profesor__> jaja
<darkxst> ali1234, of course, but do test it first ;)
<ali1234> right-o
<profesor__> twitter?
<profesor__> asdfghj
<seb128> ochosi, ali1234: don't bother about the debdiff, I've it on my list
<seb128> if pitti (who pilots tomorrow apparently) doesn't get to it first
<ali1234> how long is the list?
<seb128> today or tomorrow
<seb128> if that's the question
<ali1234> :)
<ali1234> well, i need the practice anyway
<ali1234> and we should probably actually test it anyway
<ochosi> seb128, ali1234: thanks to both of you!
 * ochosi bows
<ochosi> seb128 = "really nice sponsor" (you can logically deduct that from the conversation above, so iit's official :))
<seb128> yw!
<seb128> ;-)
 * darkxst bets seb128 is just filling is list with easy takings so he doesn't have to deal with my mammoth g-c-c merge ;) 
<asac> seb128: will you tackle live installer image first or rather alternate?
<ogra_> ??
<seb128> asac, live installer, having a liveCD to boot to play with unity8 might be the most interesting thing at first
<ogra_> what alternate ?
<seb128> ogra_, speaking about unity8 desktop images
<ogra_> we dont have alternate anymore since precise :P
<seb128> not sure if we are going to do alternate
<seb128> or what ogra_ says
<seb128> I never really used/tracked those anyway :p
<ogra_> yeah, dead and gone
<ogra_> we have server images that use the texxt based installer ... but even these use debians live-installer internally ... plain alternate is only the netinst img  nowadays
<seb128> xnox, do you plan to port ubiquity to Qt?
 * ogra_ grins 
<xnox> seb128: only after we get rid of qt4 of the desktop image.
<seb128> I'm unsure what's even the plan for desktop installer
<seb128> since I guess we are going to converge desktop to system images as well
<asac> seb128: ubiquity is GTK isnt it? will that work on mir?
<asac> e.g. do we have a backend yet
<seb128> asac, yes yes no
 * asac matches answers
<seb128> it's GTK, getting a GTK backend for Mir is on our roadmap for this cycle
<seb128> but it's not done yet
<asac> seb128: so right now the installer wont work?
<seb128> right
<asac> or is there a bandaid/hack?
<asac> ic ic
<seb128> so first images are going to be liveCD environment you can play with
<asac> seb128: so you think its feasible as a malta goal to have a demo image?
<asac> ic
<xnox> seb128: that is either write u1 plugin page for u-c-c / online-accounts or otherwise port it to qt5
<asac> so no installer
<asac> ack
<seb128> a live image you can boot and use to test unity8 yes
<seb128> no installer
<xnox> seb128: i heard the plans were for unity8 session to start from an lxc container, thus a normal installer can still be used.
<seb128> xnox, with is ubiquity depending on dropping qt4?
<asac> seb128: so we cant run the installer tests then i guess?
<seb128> not in a first time no
<asac> (checking on what we just discussed as malta goal)
<xnox> seb128: i mean personal / priority / size-constraints, although i guess we already ship both qt4 & qt5.
 * asac scratches that then
<seb128> xnox, we do ship both yes, webapps are using the qt5 stack at least
<asac> maybe we can run the unity8 APs on the live session instead to have something on dash?
<seb128> asac, that would work for me
<seb128> boot the live image
<seb128> run the ap tests
<xnox> seb128: i can check how much work it would be to port kubuntu's qt4 frontend to qt5. But that won't be qml / ubuntu-components.
<asac> seb128: i somehow sense that this live session is kind of close to a system image :)
<seb128> xnox, that's fine, that would give use a qpa for Mir
<asac> just saying
<asac> e.g. its read only
<asac> you install it through usb-creator
<seb128> right
<asac> maybe we could try using a proper RO partition instaed of the squashfs?
<ogra_> why would we not want X btw ?
<asac> think would be much faster to use then
<asac> ogra_: X?
<ogra_> i assume you will want XMir to be usable to run X apps
<asac> there is no Xmir right now
<ogra_> so having the old ubiquity running under X shouldnt be a prob
<seb128> ogra_, is that working in current e.g trusty unity8 test session?
<ogra_> did we drop XMir ?
<ogra_> it was there for the last cycle
<seb128> I don't think we dropped it
<asac> ogra_: that effort was folded before saucy release, yes
<xnox> asac: why usb-creator?
<ogra_> ah
<asac> its in the plans though
<didrocks> seb128: asac: FYI, otto was doing that: booting the live system
<didrocks> and running tests on it
<ogra_> i thought it worked last cycle already
<seb128> it did
<asac> xnox: thats how you install the live cd on a usb stick, no?
<seb128> ubiquity might just run fine on it then
<ogra_> well, let the installer run on plain X ... thats tested and reliable ... only start using Mir on the installed system then
<asac> would we want to move away and rather make ubuntu-device-flash the way to do that? i dont think so; somehow feel maybe usb-creator could become the next gen ubuntu-device flash :)
<xnox> asac: use dd. usb-creator is specific to live/ubuntu-cd isos and doesn't reliably wipe usb-sticks.
<asac> xnox: hmm. so you say usb-creator is a dead end? and if we wanted to do a UI for installing things like touch and unity8 with system image in the future we rather should do a new tool?
<ogra_> usb-creator has a pretty bad reputation ...
<asac> xnox: note that we are talkinga bout creating a livecd for unity8 as first step... feels matches what usb-creator does
<ogra_> due to it having been so buggy in the past
<asac> so a new UI tool has to arrive?
<ogra_> it only got a lot better recently
<xnox> asac: it's not currently actively maintained, and it has a few bugs.
<asac> right, but should we invest in making that better or rather go for a new tool from scratch?
<asac> or make dd our official end-user tool :P?
<ogra_> a new name at least :)
<xnox> asac: getting time on fixing it up, would be useful. but nobody is doing that at the moment. I saw a few bugs report from Timo about it, but no connection that there is high-priority work done that will rely on usb-creator.
<asac> yeah
<xnox> asac: making it better should be feasible.
<asac> xnox: how gtk specific is the code? if the logic his highly coupled with GTK/UI logic, then guess a qt tool might be the way to go indeed
<ogra_> we have no python QML bindings yet, do we ?
<didrocks> s/the way to go/the way *in* go/ :)
<xnox> asac: both ubiquity and usb-creator have backend code and frontends. both have gtk+ and a qt4 frontends.
<xnox> ogra_: we do have qml python bindings, not in main however.
<ogra_> ah, cool, that got better then
<asac> hmm
<asac> xnox: is that code at least py3 yet?
<didrocks> it is
<xnox> asac: all of it is py3. we ported that cycles ago (quantal?)
<ali1234> ochosi: seb128 just uploaded the gtk2 patch to a ppa... https://launchpad.net/~a-j-buxton/+archive/gtk2mountop/+packages
<asac> quantal was before my resurrection :P
<ali1234> *i just uploaded...
<seb128> ali1234, ok
<ochosi> ali1234: thanks, i'll wait till it has built and then test it
<pmcgowan> bregma, hey, nice work on the analysis of that touch bug, what exactly is the fix thats needed now
<pmcgowan> its in the QPA from upstream?
<bregma> yes
<seb128> what's the bug number?
<bregma> at the moment I'm rebuilding Qt with explicit tablet support disabled
<bregma> to verify
<pmcgowan> bregma, ok will stand by
<bregma> if that fixes things, it goes upstream to Qt, otherwise it goes upstream to x.org
<pmcgowan> seb128, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1307701
<seb128> pmcgowan, thanks
<mlankhorst> do we have people working on qt5?
<pmcgowan> mlankhorst, as needed but not full time, we have made some bug fixes
<seb128> bregma, hey, I'm playing with the unity8-mir session ... does that include xmir/a way to start X apps?
<seb128> om26er, hey, could you help to figure out what's the issue with ubuntu-system-settings and CI, we get failures similar to https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/autopilot-testrunner-otto-trusty/4451/? on the CI runs for some reason
<om26er> seb128, in a call, will do that in a few minutes
<seb128> om26er, no hurry, thanks
<mlankhorst> pmcgowan: ok do you understand the input stack of qt?
<pmcgowan> mlankhorst, no experience with it
<pmcgowan> I suspect some of the unity8 guys are pretty aware
<pmcgowan> Saviq, or greyback perhaps
<mlankhorst> ok
<greyback> mlankhorst: what do you need to know?
<mlankhorst> greyback: it's for bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1307701 -- I don't completely understand the qt changes required for it
<greyback> mlankhorst: ah, dandrader working on that as we speak. He can tell you more
<greyback> will ask him to join this channel if you'd like
<pmcgowan> greyback, bregma is doing a test now to disable tablet
<seb128> kenvandine, hey
<kenvandine> hey seb128
<seb128> kenvandine, can you review https://code.launchpad.net/~laney/ubuntu-system-settings/data-roaming-disable/+merge/217965 ... it's a small change, just some sanity check
<kenvandine> sure
<seb128> kenvandine, thanks
<pmcgowan> greyback, I think the issue is these folks are not familiar with Qt and may need some other eyes on the code
<greyback> pmcgowan: ok. dandrader knows the Qt input handling code better than I do, and I know he's working on it. But if other opinion needed, let me know
<pmcgowan> ok
<mlankhorst> yeah asked him, but he's not touching it for this bug :(
<mlankhorst> so I'll do it myself
<greyback> mlankhorst: dandrader is definitely working on that bug right now. But he thinks the problem is somewhere in X11. If you disagree, I'm sure he's like to know your reasoning
<greyback> s/he's/he'd/
<mlankhorst> true, but the touch code is next to impossible to understand. :P
<Trevinho> xnox: moving here...
<Trevinho> Well, the gnome-keyring thing would be nice, but is it possible to get that in 14.04 as well?
<seb128> Trevinho, gnome-keyring what?
<Trevinho> xnox: the fact is that gnome-session is not reliable in restarting unity if it crashes, and this might cause security issues if it was locked...
<Trevinho> seb128: it's fricking env variables...
<seb128> oh, right
<Trevinho> seb128: trying to move unity to upstart, causes some trobules
<seb128> :/
<Trevinho> seb128: basically I'm getting a terminal launched with ctrl+alt+t (thus fron unity-settings-daemon, I suppose) with all the env correctly set... but if launch one from the launcher/dash I miss some of the gnome keyring envs
<Trevinho> seb128: for reference, sudo sed "s/compiz;//" -i /usr/share/gnome-session/sessions/ubuntu.session -> start your (guest) session and env | grep key will act differently
<xnox> Trevinho: the way i move unity under upstart is different.
<seb128> Trevinho, k
<xnox> Trevinho: instead of removing compiz from ubuntu.session, i make compiz exec command to be "start compiz" and add appropriate job for it.
<xnox> Trevinho: gnome-keyring env variables are missing, because of bug #1271591
<xnox> which is solved in unicorn by now, but not yet in trusty. I will sru that change.
<xnox> ubuntu bot is gone?
<Trevinho> xnox: ah, nice...
<Trevinho> xnox: what is the way you make compiz to run with upstart btw (I said that since it's the faster to try)
<Trevinho> xnox: and... why these envs are applied to unity-settings-daemon job instead?
<xnox> Trevinho: i don't understand "why these envs are applied to unity-settings-daemon job instead?" can you explain more, what you mean?
<Trevinho> xnox: if you use ctrl+alt+t to run a terminal, it has all the keyring envs, even if it's still launched by upstart and not by g-s-
<xnox> Trevinho: the bug about gnome-keyring is that it's agent environment variables are available to everything that's started by e.g. gnome-session, but those variables are not exported to upstart thus $ initctl list-env doesn't show them, and anything started by upstart doesn't have them.
<xnox> Trevinho: echo "exec compiz" > ~/.config/upstart/compiz.conf
<Trevinho> xnox: ok, that was my guss as well and what I would have done to fix it anyway...
<xnox> Trevinho: and change /usr/share/applications/compiz.desktop "Exec= start compiz"
<Trevinho> xnox: ah, ok... that's what happens already in unity7.conf if you remove the grep-check
<xnox> Trevinho: the fix for gnome-keyring is in utopic....
<xnox> Trevinho: look at the gnome-keyring job in utopic.
<Trevinho> xnox: yep, I'm on it now
<xnox> Trevinho: you can just copy it. E.g. pull-lp-source gnome-keyring; cp gnome-keyring-*/debian/gnome-keyring.conf ~/.config/upstart/
<xnox> start gnome-keyring
<xnox> and everything should be fixed.
<Trevinho> xnox: altough while that fix is reasonable to me, I was worried about other possible generic g-s clients that might use its dbus interface to register env variables...
<Trevinho> xnox: so, I was thinking if we should instead do something like that inside the callback of RegisterEnv variable of gnome-session dbus interface
<xnox> Trevinho: what's that interface? we can grep the archive and check who / where does it.
<xnox> Trevinho: instead of gnome-session dbus interface, one would set it via upstart instead e.g. initctl set-env FOO=bar
<Trevinho> xnox: ok, sure, but you know it's not always the nicest thing to do when you might use a global fix instead :)
<xnox> Trevinho: ideally i wouldn't be running gnome-session at all =) but we are not there yet.
<Trevinho> xnox: indeed, but that will apply to all the apps already running (if that cames later)?
<xnox> Trevinho: yes, it will apply to all the apps already running.
<xnox> Trevinho: as it would set it for gnome-session as well.
<Trevinho> xnox: thus, why not changing org.gnome.SessionManager.SetEnv to call it?
<Trevinho> xnox: I didn't try yet, but for sure from my devbugging it gets called by the keyring-daemon
<xnox> Trevinho: we could do that as a hook.
<Trevinho> xnox: anyway from my tests "initctl set-env FOO=bar" doesn't ever apply to all the upstart started apps :/
<Trevinho> no idea why
<Trevinho> It did once, but now I fail to get it
<xnox> it should be.
<xnox> oh, --global.
<Trevinho> yeah, also witht htat flag
<xnox> hm.
<xnox> this is odd, it should be modifying environment of all running jobs.
<xnox> i'll follow up on that.
<Trevinho> xnox: ok, anyway for now it would be nice if yo might sru the gnome-keyring-daemon change, so we can sru also the change at unity level
<xnox> Trevinho: you are sruing running unity under upstart ?!
<xnox> Trevinho: what's the bug number?
<Trevinho> xnox: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/1308800
<Trevinho> until I noticed that...
<xnox> Trevinho: oh, it's not started by upstart in error....
<Trevinho> xnox: what's the equivalent of initctl set-env *--global* using dbus? as it always seems to need the job name
<xnox> Trevinho: there is dbus api for it - as initctl itself uses dbus api to actuall do everything.
<Trevinho> xnox: yeah, I know, but what parameter should be used for "global"... as the first parametert needs the ["job", "instance"], thing...
<KombuchaKip> Hey folks!
 * KombuchaKip waves at seb128, brookswarner, and everybody else.
 * KombuchaKip is working on two bugs, one in Thunderbird and the other in Eiciel.
<seb128> KombuchaKip, hey
<seb128> ok, it's meeting time
<seb128> qengho, Sweetshark, mlankhorst, tkamppeter, desrt, attente, larsu, kenvandine, KombuchaKip: hey, it's meeting time ;-)
 * kenvandine waves
<qengho> Hey, y'all.
<seb128> I hope everybody is doing well
 * Sweet5hark runs from the beach and into the shade.
<seb128> let's get started
<seb128> qengho, hey
<qengho> Just one item:
<qengho> - in-progress: working on chromium bugs, mostly high-dpi popups, then tabs.
<qengho> EOF
<seb128> qengho, tabs being the session issue?
<qengho> I looked a little at the tabs problem.
<seb128> I saw some extra users joined in commenting they see the issue as well
<mlankhorst> ohai
<xnox> Trevinho: if instance is empty, it looks like global is auto-activated.
<qengho> seb128: Yes. I found an interesting sorting function. I don't know if it' the cause yet.
<seb128> xnox, Trevinho: can you move to another channel, we have a meeting starting
<seb128> qengho, ok, I'm subscribed to the bug, so I'm going to watch it for comments if you found more ;-)
<seb128> qengho, I can also do testing/provide debug info if needed
<qengho> Yes. Thanks.
 * xnox ducks
<seb128> qengho, thanks
<seb128> Sweet5hark, still on the beach?
<Sweet5hark> nope, in the hotel.
<Sweet5hark> - precise SRU tweaks and redtape
<Sweet5hark> - a tiny bit more on the menu corner case
<Sweet5hark> - othewise: was off on Thursday/Friday for holiday/vacation
<Sweet5hark> EOF
<seb128> Sweet5hark, give me a ping when you get that SRU ready for upload again
<Sweet5hark> seb128: yep, going through the checklist right now.
<seb128> good
<seb128> Sweet5hark, thanks
<seb128> mlankhorst, hey
<mlankhorst> mostly working on the touch bugs, looks like we have a workaround at least..
<mlankhorst> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1307701 and presumably https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/+bug/1311828 being related
<seb128> great
<seb128> nice to see you guys have an handle on those issues
<seb128> mlankhorst, thanks
<seb128> tkamppeter, hey
<mlankhorst> still waiting on my touch laptop :/
 * KombuchaKip is working on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/eiciel/+bug/1315098
<tkamppeter> - cups: Merged Ubuntu changes (socket-activated on-demand running of the daemon with Upstart, no hard dependency on avahi-daemon) to Debian so that Debian and Ubuntu packages can get synced again.
<tkamppeter> - ghostscript: Updated to upstream version 9.14.
<tkamppeter> - hplip, system-config-printer, ghostscript: Prepared SRUs for Trusty (all waiting for verification now)
<tkamppeter> - cups-filters: Let cups-browsed do case-insensitive comparing of device URIs and CUPS queue names now, investigations for further bug fixes.
<tkamppeter> - Started mentoring of GSoC students
<tkamppeter> - Bugs.
<seb128> KombuchaKip, it's not your turn yet, please wait for your name to be listed
<seb128> tkamppeter, did you find anyone knowing ghostscript to ping/email about that libspectre issue?
<tkamppeter> seb128, not yet, seems that I have to send a private e-mail to Marek Kasik.
<seb128> tkamppeter, ok, thanks
<seb128> desrt, hey, your turn
<desrt> hey
<desrt> was in berlin most of last week, doing the gtk hackfest
<desrt> got a lot done there -- reached concensus on a lot of issues, including the introduction of a data model API in GLib
<desrt> also talked about next steps on things like GProperty, epollification of mainloop, etc.
<desrt> did some work on introspection and just landed the support for nullable parameters/return-types in master a few hours ago
<desrt> that broke some stuff, so i'm currently in emergency-chase-down mode
<desrt> that's all, really
<seb128> desrt, did you discuss the headerbars and gtk/mir at the hackfesT?
<desrt> yes
<desrt> at least for the gtk/mir front, gtk is openminded, will accept patches, etc.
<desrt> under the threat that it gets ripped out if we don't maintain it properly
<desrt> about headerbars, larsu probably has more to say about this
<desrt> one thing we did discuss was about the app-prefers-appmenu thing
<desrt> gnome did some additional testing in this area and found that some small improvements increased the discoverability/usability of the app menu, so it seems that they will keep it
<desrt> so the app-prefers-appmenu thing will go in now
<seb128> ok, good
<desrt> that gives a pretty simple mechanism for the menu story at least -- and apps may be able to use that to conditionalise headerbar
<desrt> but i'm not sure that's desirable
<desrt> larsu and i part a bit on this point....
<seb128> ok
<seb128> let's see how that goes, doesn't seem like a topic we need to resolve during the meeting
<seb128> desrt, thanks!
<desrt> :)
<seb128> attente, hey
<attente> hey seb128
<attente> java non-latin shortcuts PPA, fixes Inkscape, Blender, IntelliJ, NetBeans, but breaks Eclipse and possibly other java apps. shift problem still exists under unity though, no progress there.
<attente> work on https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity-settings-daemon/+bug/1315867, still in progress.
<attente> gnome-shell/classic g-s-d modifier-only shortcuts hack, pushed this to the java non-latin shortcuts PPA.
<attente> eof
<seb128> ok
<seb128> attente, let me know if you get anything ready for SRU or if you need help testing for something
<seb128> I'm happy to organize landing for SRUs or help testing
<attente> seb128, sure, thanks
<seb128> yw!
<seb128> attente, thanks
<seb128> larsu, your turn ;-)
<larsu> oh hey
<larsu> talking to rishi right now about g-t
<larsu> but that can wait I guess
 * KombuchaKip will brb
<larsu> I was at the berlin hackfest with desrt, talking about gtk things
<larsu> trying to convince people that having gtk support !GNOME desktops is a good idea
<larsu> with mixed results (as desrt already mentioned)
<seb128> how did that go?
<seb128> :/
<larsu> in general, they're fine with it as long as somebody else does the work
<larsu> but seem a bit reluctant about us in particular because it seems we're moving away from gtk in the mid-term
<seb128> right
<seb128> well our default desktop is
<larsu> right
<seb128> it doesn't mean app writers wouldn't be interested to have their apps work on our desktop
<larsu> but there's even less active involvement from the other desktops
<larsu> (upstream, I mean)
<seb128> ok
<larsu> right, that was the point I tried to make
<larsu> and I think if we produce good patches they have a chance
<larsu> Company in particular isn't a huge fan of headerbars anyway
<larsu> and he dislikes the state of gtkwindow.c - so if we can clean that up a bit while adding support for traditional title bars, we might have a chance
<seb128> ok
<larsu> I'm still not sure which way is the better one for us to take
<seb128> that's another topic we are not going to resolve during the meeting in any case ;-)
<seb128> yeah, me neither, let's discuss it more in the next weeks
<larsu> but I've looked into it the last days and I can say that going the headerbar-as-toolbar route is definitely much easer
<larsu> *easier
<larsu> as in, will take us less time to implement
<larsu> which might be what we're going for this cycle
<seb128> that should be good enough I think
<larsu> (the other option would be to go csd ourselves)
<seb128> sounds like a plan
<seb128> it doesn't prevent us to do csd later if we want
<larsu> seb128: right, especially since we won't have that many headerbarified apps anyway
<larsu> I'm also not sure about the traditional menu bar patches I did
<larsu> now that everything is going headerbar, they have less chances of getting in
<larsu> I think that's eof for me - not much else was going on
<larsu> (and desrt already talked about the hackfest)
<desrt> larsu: you forgot the most important part
<desrt> you may have caused me to overcome my club mate aversion
<seb128> urg, club mate
<desrt> seb128: it's an acquired taste, man
<larsu> seb128: he loves it now
<desrt> "love" is a bit strong...
<desrt> but certainly the "urg" is gone
<seb128> good for you? ;-)
<seb128> larsu, thanks
<seb128> kenvandine, hey
<larsu> https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/+ChrisK%C3%BChl/albums/6008888709869480017/6010050660182189954?pid=6010050660182189954&oid=107949128852701224835
<kenvandine> yo!
<Sweet5hark> (club mate is a suitable fallback if there is no fritz cola.)
<larsu> Sweet5hark: haha, you're funny.
<kenvandine> finished up work on the download manager integration with content-hub, adding snap decisions until we get a replacement for the transfer indicator
<kenvandine> and worked on getting libphonenumber packaged up for utopic
<kenvandine>  /EOF
<seb128> kenvandine, the transfert indicator is not a thing anymore?
<kenvandine> oh man... don't get me started :)
<kenvandine> it's dead now...
<Sweet5hark> larsu: not funny, just patriotic about softdrinks from my home town.
<kenvandine> until we get designs for something else, we are using a snap decision
<larsu> Sweet5hark: ;)
<seb128> kenvandine, ok
<seb128> kenvandine, thanks
<kenvandine> sorry i'll miss you guys in malta!
<seb128> kenvandine, feel free to ping me if you need an archive admin review for libphonenumber
<kenvandine> seb128, you're on my hit list for today :)
<seb128> kenvandine, oh right, you shifted to first week :/ let's see if we can get some beers anyway
<kenvandine> just need to finish up the beloved debian/copyright
<seb128> kenvandine, ;-)
<seb128> kenvandine, when do you leave? friday? saturday?
<kenvandine> early sat
<kenvandine> like 5:30
<kenvandine> seb128, when do you get in?
<Scunizi> Trying to join #ubuntu results in "You must be invited".. What's up with that?
<seb128> kenvandine, wednesday, take some vac days before with others
<seb128> kenvandine, let's try to have beers on friday or something maybe
<kenvandine> oh... so i will see you :)
<kenvandine> cool!
<seb128> anyway, not a meeting's topic
<kenvandine> yeah, you know where i'll be :)
<seb128> right ;-)
<seb128> KombuchaKip, hey, your turn
<seb128> ok, he seems to not be there
<seb128> so my turn
<seb128> (short week with may 1st holidays)
<seb128> .
<seb128> * still quite some bugs reading/triaging
<seb128> * uploaded some bugfixes as trusty SRUs
<seb128> * started looking at what the unity8/mir teams are planning for this cycle to know what is coming
<seb128> * played with unity8/mir on desktop
<seb128> * started reviewing the accumulated ubuntu-system-settings merge requests
<seb128> * spend some time looking at work coming for next cycle/see how to prioritize/what to focus on
<seb128> </week>
<seb128> (note that thursday is an holiday again here, end of ww2)
<larsu> seb128: finally!
<seb128> larsu, finally what? end of meeting? ;-)
<KombuchaKip> seb128: Hey man. I'm working on two issues. One of them is a Thunderbird issue and the other is an ACL issue. The latter is here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/eiciel/+bug/1315098
<larsu> seb128: end of ww2
<seb128> larsu, oh! :p
<larsu> :P
<seb128> larsu, you guys should have a it off as well
<seb128> it's a win for everyone
<larsu> I don't think we do
<seb128> right
<seb128> you should
<larsu> right
<seb128> oh well
<larsu> we should have a holiday every week if you ask me
 * larsu doesn't even care for the reason
<seb128> larsu, sorry, my brain was not in "get the IRC jokes" mode :p
<seb128> lol
<larsu> hehe
<seb128> KombuchaKip, ok, thanks
<seb128> I think that's everyone
<seb128> was there anything else to discuss?
<KombuchaKip> seb128: np. I'm just the boring desktop guy.
<seb128> KombuchaKip, you are not, those bugfixes are important ;-)
<KombuchaKip> seb128: ;
<KombuchaKip> seb128: ;)
<seb128> ok, seems like we don't have other topics
<seb128> thanks everyone!
<Sweet5hark> larsu: we could start another one, on the offchance that we get a holiday for ending that one ...
<larsu> lol
<larsu> not sure the trouble would be worth it...
<attente> seb128, would like to start the sru process for https://code.launchpad.net/~attente/unity/1291461/+merge/215848 and https://code.launchpad.net/~attente/unity-gtk-module/1208019-2/+merge/216964
<attente> but not really sure how to proceed exactly
<Sweet5hark> larsu: true. since france has nuclear stuff, we certainly shouldnt do it while at home. Maybe when we are in Malta. as that one will be rather quick, we could even do the peace talks with seb in the evening over a beer.
<Sweet5hark> seb128: http://people.canonical.com/~bjoern/precise/3.5.7/ubuntu6/libreoffice_3.5.7-0ubuntu6_source.changes should be good for upload.
<Sweet5hark> seb128: although ...
<seb128> attente, unity, I guess it can be included in one for their SRU rounds once it's approved, check with bregma
<mvo> tedg: if at some point you have time to have a quick look at https://code.launchpad.net/~mvo/upstart-app-launch/hide-apps-on-missing-framework that would be great, just if the general direction looks ok, its not quite ready for merging yet (one test failure, tests needs updating etc and I need to double check that I haven't added any leaks). no rush as I need to go for dinner anyway now :)
<seb128> attente, the other one, can you update the bug to be SRU compliant (it needs rational/test case/regression potential info)
<seb128> desrt, larsu, tedg: can you review https://code.launchpad.net/~attente/unity-gtk-module/1208019-2/+merge/216964 for attente?
<attente> seb128, sure, thanks!
<seb128> attente, yw!
<tedg> mvo, No specific issue, but we don't get called again when the frameworks could get changed?
<tedg> mvo, So it seems like we'd need some way to run on that case.
<Sweet5hark> seb128: there was a -0ubuntu6 in precise-proposed already, wasnt it? I guess it wouldnt want a different upload with the same version then. well, if it fails as -0ubuntu6 just give me a ping, and tell me which version number it should have in the end.
<tedg> attente, I think you have to put an action on the item that the submenu connects to. larsu ?
<seb128> Sweetshark, 0ubuntu6 is fine, the same version can exist several times in the unapproved queue
<attente> tedg, there's already an action on the submenu but it doesn't get activated
<Sweet5hark> seb128: k, great.
<tedg> attente, Hmm, that's weird. Do you know why that is?
<larsu> attente, tedg: ya, it needs to be set as the "submenu-action" and have boolean state
<tedg> larsu, If the app sets the value of that to true will the menu bar open the menu as well?
<attente> larsu, tedg, oh ok. i didn't know about that
<larsu> tedg: I don't think so, no
<larsu> desrt knows the details ;)
<larsu> attente: what is this code doing right now? Emitting show on everything to collect menu items?
<tedg> Perhaps we could implement that in the QML implementation so we don't have to do all those global key watch hacks.
<attente> larsu, yes
<desrt> the menu should not automatically open based on submenu action
<larsu> attente: craziness :)
<desrt> there is no mechanism for menus that open themselves
<larsu> desrt: nor should there be...
<desrt> larsu: talk to ted ;)
<larsu> attente: why is it not based on the submenu-action stuff? Because you didn't know about that yet?
<larsu> desrt added it for that purpose (in LibreOffice)
<attente> larsu, yeah, didn't know about it
<attente> libreoffice is doing the same thing?
<larsu> yes
<larsu> I don't mind acking this for now if it's urgent thoguh
<seb128> it's not "urgent"
<seb128> but it's one of the issue that would be nice to see fixed
<Sweet5hark> larsu, attente: I missed the context here. How did LibreOffice do something wrong, or how did you do something wrong to LibreOffice? ;)
<attente> Sweet5hark, nothing wrong, just wondering how to make eclipse work as LO already does :)
<Sweet5hark> seb128: thanks for uploading. I set the bug to "In Progress" and unsubscribed ubuntu-sponsors
<seb128> Sweet5hark, sounds good, thanks
<seb128> oh, and yw ;-)
<Sweet5hark> seb128: I seem to remember that a bug used to be assigned or subscribed to ubuntu-sru, but cant find that in the docs anymore, so I didnt do anything to that point for now ...
<seb128> Sweet5hark, right, they work from the queue so that's not required afaik
<Sweet5hark> seb128: k, thanks.
<Sweet5hark> pitti: ah, and thanks for the "affects precise" thing!
<mvo> tedg: thanks for your feedback, i will look into this
<tedg> mvo, I'm not sure how much we should worry about it or not, in general, I consider those desktop files just for legacy support. I think they'll go away in time.
<mvo> tedg: thanks, when you say they are legacy, what will replace them? is that something worth talking about at the next sprint?
<tedg> mvo, specific caches for the people who need that data. There's no need for a generic cache now that there's good hooks that everyone can use.
<tedg> mvo, for instance the click scope could tokenize into it's core format when the app installed instead of on each login.
<mvo> tedg: right, so we would need a separate hook on framework changes when this gets implemented
<tedg> mvo, For building only the desktop files that have frameworks, yes. In general though, I don't expect new frameworks to get added much, but more in the "dpkg case" rather than the "image case".
<tedg> mvo, So people who are using the desktop files (a Kubuntu or Xubuntu perhaps) are more likely to be dpkg based.
<tedg> We need a better term there. Perhaps just read only image vs. read write.
<tedg> Since the image is build from debs.
<mvo> tedg: thanks! I will ponder a bit about it, I need to get used to the new-terms (and he new-world-order in general :)
<tedg> mvo, Heh. BTW, that doesn't remove us discussing it at the sprint, that's a good idea too. :-)
 * tedg isn't avoiding mvo
<mvo> tedg: hehe :)
<kenvandine> mvo!  new world order indeed!
<tedg> In the new world order kenvandine is the beard saint.
<kenvandine> tedg, that's not new :)
<mvo> tedg: there is a "building click packages" on the agenda already, but it does not sound like its a perfect fit
<mvo> hey kenvandine
<tedg> kenvandine, I'm just surprised jcastro hasn't shaved you in your sleep ;-)
<kenvandine> haha
<kenvandine> i hide from his razors, they are scary
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-05-07
<Mirv> morning desktop
<pitti> Good morning
<thumper> o/ pitti
<mlankhorst> Hello, world!
<didrocks> hey mlankhorst
<mlankhorst> morning
<Laney> hey hey hey
<didrocks> morning Laney!
<mvo> good monring Laney, didrocks and seb128
<didrocks> Guten Morgen mvo :)
<Laney> hello didrocks et mvo, how's it going?
<didrocks> I'm good thanks! yourself?
<mvo> not too bad, thanks!
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> hey hey hey Laney didrocks mvo
<seb128> Laney, how was your long W.E?
<Laney> i'm good
<didrocks> people daring taking bank holidays :-)
<Laney> it was fun thank you!
<Laney> + an extra day even ;-)
<Laney> we got a canal boat and sailed around a bit
<Laney> working the locks and stuff, I recommend it!
<didrocks> nice weather?
<Laney> i'm looking a bit pink ...
<didrocks> waow :)
 * didrocks won't make any comment on all people living "in the north" like seb128 or you ;)
<Laney> :P
<didrocks> (and getting easy sunburn :p)
<Laney> it's surprising that it can happen even if it doesn't feel that sunny
<didrocks> yeah, clouds are a double trap, you don't feel that warm and don't think you can burn
<seb128> wind as well
<seb128> especially when you are on the water
<didrocks> hum, I can't assign the thinkvantage button as a shortcut anymore on trusty :/
 * didrocks tried to change the shortcut script path it pointed at and it's broken now
<didrocks> assign to alt + u works though, it's clearly related to thinkvantage button
<didrocks> ok, at least, same behavior in a guest
<didrocks> [org/gnome/settings-daemon/plugins/media-keys/custom-keybindings/custom0]
<didrocks> binding='Launch1'
<didrocks> command='/home/didrocks/foo'
<didrocks> name='creds'
<pitti> Sweetsha1k: hey Bjoern
<pitti> Sweetsha1k: we finally fixed the autopkgtest timeouts, now LibO fails "properly"
<pitti> looks like a missing @builddeps@ or build-essential or similar dependency, depending on what the test needs to to
<Laney> seb128: can you promote appdata-tools please? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/appdata-tools/+bug/1315019
<seb128> Laney, is anything (build-)depending on it yet?
<Laney> cheese
<seb128> ok, so "yes"
<seb128> doing the promoting then
<Laney> thanks!
<seb128> yw!
<Laney> xnox: any thoughts on https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=675008 yet?
<didrocks> hum, seems that the thinkvantage button issue would be due to compiz
<didrocks> popey: FYI ^
<didrocks> Trevinho: do you know about why a newly assigned shortcut won't work under unity?
<popey> â¹
<didrocks> popey: assigning it to compiz directly works as a workaround
<popey> how?
<didrocks> popey: what's your reaction if you hear about ccsm? :p
<xnox> Laney: in ubuntu we source /etc/profile.d/*.sh from /etc/profile, similar to what fedora does.
<xnox> Laney: however, fedora also sources /etc/profile.d/*.sh from /etc/bashrc
<popey> didrocks: meh, i have it installed, use it to enable various random things - what's the spell to cast?
<didrocks> popey: in the "general" area, you have "commands"
<darkxst> yeh that is the cause of the whole gnome-terminal vte.sh sourcing issue!
<didrocks> popey: assign a command line
<didrocks> go to the next tab
<didrocks> and assign to the corresponding number the keyboard shortcut
<didrocks> seems that the compiz <-> u-c-c integration is clearly broken
<darkxst> bug 1132700
<darkxst> and mainly why we are still stuck with gnome-terminal 3.6
<Laney> yes, that's what i'm asking about
<xnox> Laney: i really see no harm in not sourcing /etc/profile.d/* since i'm yet to see snippets dropped there that "may not be ever executed more than once"
<xnox> Laney: i'm making a patch now, and will send it to bts & doko and will nmu that.
<xnox> Laney: i guess you do want it in debian, and not just ubuntu?
<popey> didrocks: woohoo! thanks!
<didrocks> popey: yw! ;)
<Laney> xnox: cool, good luck with that ;)
<Laney> I don't see any reason this would be ubuntu specific, indeed
<seb128> didrocks, u-c-c custom commands wfm
<didrocks> seb128: it works here as well, but not for the thinkvantage button, if I reassign
<didrocks> seb128: popey confirms it as well
<seb128> I don't know what "thinkvantge" is
<didrocks> I got the issue this morning when trying to change the script path
<didrocks> seb128: big blue button on thinkpad laptop
<popey> seb128: blue button on a thinkpad â»
<seb128> oh ok
 * seb128 has Dell
<seb128> well, normal keybindings work
<seb128> I just assigned ctrl-alt-e to "gedit"
<seb128> and it runs it
<didrocks> yeah, not sure how or why that one broken
<didrocks> and started to be broken when I reassign the script
<darkxst> the thinkpad special keys are handled slightly different
<didrocks> the name between GNOME and compiz aren't the same
<didrocks> like, it's Launch1 under GNOME
<didrocks> and XF86Launch1 for compiz
<didrocks> popey: after a dconf dump /org/compiz/integrated/
<didrocks> on the laptop you never reassigned
<didrocks> did you have anything setup?
<popey> GNNNN. I would tell you if my trusty desktop hadn't just booted up in low-graphics mode
<didrocks> popey: he felt you wanted to hurt it! :)
<popey> â¹
<popey> this shouldn't happen â¹
<Laney> Anyone want to try gnome-terminal from lp:~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-terminal/ubuntu-current ? I re-added a patch we used to have to use the transparency that the theme sets for the background.
<Laney> larsu: do you think rishi would be interested in doing something like that in his transparency patch btw? It adds a property which makes g-t read the transparency from the theme instead of the profile's settings
<xnox> Laney: oh, speaking of which the light theme needs activating for gnome terminal (ambience?!)
<xnox> Laney: <doko> can you pester me at the sprint again? have to do some real work ;p
<Laney> activating?
<Laney> hey, this is real work >:|
<xnox> Laney: so far i've subverted all of his argumentation =)
<Laney> good work
<larsu> Laney: don't know. Let's ask him when he's around
<Laney> okay
<larsu> this is for g-t 3.12?
<Laney> his stuff would be
<larsu> k
<Laney> that patch I just (re)added was an old one we already had
<Laney> our theme already sets the value
<Laney> we just dumped the patch for some reason
<xnox> Laney: yeah, so light-themes has "dark" gnome-terminal (radiance?!) but the "light" one is commented out (ambience?!)
<Laney> xnox: Looks like they're the same if you ignore the commented out stuff
<xnox> Laney: are they?! hm. i thought there was something special about it. let me test it out.
<xnox> i thought tabs were suppose to get nicer matching colors, or some such.
<Laney> It just sets the default transparency & background & text colour
<xnox> meh, ok.
<Laney> I think the rest of it is standard gtk stuff
<popey> didrocks: only has alt for show-hud, nothing else, on desktop
<Laney> pitti: I just remembered our conversation on Friday --- do you think http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/05/02/#ubuntu-devel.html#t16:32 could explain why it doesn't pass?
<darkxst> Laney, that patch won't work with the new(er) gnome-terminal, they remove the api's
<Laney> darkxst: that's what I just asked Lars about
<Laney> there's a patch (or intention to write one) to keep transparency
<Laney> pitti: (xnox:) going to skip dbus-test-runner for now anyway
<xnox> Laney: as in force-bad-test? and thus gvfs will migrate?!
<Laney> it's a possibility
<xnox> Laney: it looks like it's bustle related, since "needs-build" does a build without bustle, whilst adt-test does _with_ bustle installed (or at least that's the intention...) and something somewhere doesn't like that.
<Laney> I think the idea is to not recompile in the actual test, just to run the testsuite
<Laney> it's pretty weird
<pitti> Laney, xnox: BTW, gvfs' test failure is real (due to new libgphoto2), on my list after the bigger fires were putout
<Laney> oh
<Laney> I think that britney has forgotten about that one
<Laney> pitti: do you want to fix it before gvfs goes in or later?
<pitti> Laney: if it holds up lib transitions, feel free to override
<pitti> Laney: it's not a simple fix, and as I'm also patch pilot today and also have to do something for the OEM team, I don't expect to get to it today
<Laney> It doesn't hold them up, but only because (adt-)britney has forgotten about it
<pitti> Laney: that's one of the "urgent" thinks I'm currently busy with, BTW -- reviewing jibel's fix for that very britney bug :)
<pitti> thinks -> things
<Laney> great, I've been hoping for that one :)
<Laney> uploaded g-t to the desktop ppa, btw
<xnox> Laney: \o/ britney still has dementia gvfs is in =)
<Laney> nice
<Laney> plist hooooo
<xnox> apart from haskell, there is only mpich transition left and bits&bobs of boost transition
<xnox> yeah ;-) plist is now done.
<xnox> Laney: do you know how to get a shell inside the test environment with "adt-run" & qemu?
<Laney> nope, I've not used that yet
<Laney> it was easy with the old run-adt-test
<xnox> yeah.
<xnox> pitti: how to get shell inside test environment with "adt-run" & qemu runner? "--shell" doesn't seem to do that for me.
<pitti> xnox: it doesn't directly throw you into a shell, right; it prints out various commands (in descending "niceness") how to log in
<pitti> xnox: i. e. usually with ssh, but if that's broken you can also use minicom or even nc
<pitti> xnox: -s is more useful, btw (only shell on failed tests)
<pitti> xnox: or do you just want a virgin environment without any autopkgtset stuff run before?
<xnox> pitti: http://youtu.be/2xW5xK3UeXs =)
<xnox> (that's about minicom & nc =)))) )
<xnox> pitti: i want with autopkgtest just finished running (or failing)
<Laney>   # For a native build we would also want to append /usr/lib/pkgconfig
<Laney>   # at this point; but this is a cross-building script, so don't
<Laney> grr!
<pitti> xnox: yes, then --shell should do exactly that; what does it say after the test?
<xnox> pitti: well let me try again.
<pitti> xnox: that's how it's supposed to look like: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7409845/
<pitti> xnox: I think it's currently broken if you use --output-dir; do you?
<xnox> i am rebuilding my cloud image. only had -proposed enabled and that's it i think.
<pitti> xnox: yes, with --output-dir I get some "IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/proc/15433/fd/pipe:[967428]'" gobbledigok
<pitti> (on my list, but medium prio)
<pitti> xnox: ah, you are not using the adt-buildvm-ubuntu-cloud ones?
<xnox> i am.
<xnox> pitti: no i don't get that, i believe this is because package build fails and it declares needs-building.
<xnox> (fails due to test-suite error)
<pitti> xnox: aaah
<pitti> xnox: indeed, --shell doesn't work on package build failures
<pitti> xnox: that's a good point, mind filing a bug? (LP or Debian, doesn't matteR)
<xnox> pitti: removed that, changed tests, trying now with -B .// option
<xnox> Bug #1317055
<xnox> dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: build-essential:native
<xnox> pitti: what do i need to upgrade to get that ^
 * xnox does a full-distupgrade
<xnox> lunch time.
<pitti> xnox: not released yet, I'm afraid, still in git
<pitti> xnox: git clone http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=autopkgtest/autopkgtest.git
<xnox> ok...
<xnox> =(
<pitti> xnox: and /where/ever/run-from-checkout instead of adt-run
 * ogra_ sighs about the new FF UI ... 
<ogra_> i dont mind the new look, but why oh why did they have to make the close buttons for tabs so super tiny
<mvo_> ogra_: hehe, the term FF is a bit overloaded, I was pondering for a moment what ui FeatureFreeze has and then when you got a new FullFrame camera ;)
<ogra_> lol
<xnox> Laney: uploaded into utopic, patch+NMU intent sent to debian.
<Laney> xnox: haha, did he give in?
<mlankhorst> noon
<xnox> Laney: no, complained once he read utopic-changes.
<Laney> :D
<xnox> Laney: i pointed that i'm going to nmu this into debian as well as per patch on the debian bug report.
<xnox> Laney: and talking to him, gave me more rebutal points to include in the patch email i sent to BTS =)
<Laney> not sure that'll sooth the flames ...
<pitti> ogra_: you actually use the close button on tabs? I only ever middle-click there
<pitti> ogra_: (or ctrl+w)
<Laney> 'd' (vimperator ftw)
<xnox> Laney: my plan is to duck & hide in malta and bribe doko with beer
<ogra_> pitti, no middle click on my touchpad ...
<pitti> I don't even see close buttons
<xnox> pitti: you must not be wearing ubuntu glasses
<ogra_> you dont have a small X in the active tab ?
<Laney> xnox: anyway, thanks, that'll unblock gnome-terminal once we get the patch to bring transparency back
<Laney> larsu: â fyi
<larsu> ah, cool
<pitti> xnox: no, probably too many tabs :)
<Laney> you could pop round to doko's house and massage his shoulders or something
<Laney> :)
 * Laney brb
<xnox> Laney: i don't think that would fly at all.
<Laney> someone would fly
<xnox> i nominate infinity
<pmcgowan> mlankhorst, looks like you have a fix! nice
<pmcgowan> tseliot, nice
<tseliot> :)
<mlankhorst> yeah hopefully, pending review :P
<seb128> what bug was that?
<seb128> the "can't dnd the uitk apps from the touchscreen"?
<seb128> or the segfault one?
<tseliot> seb128: the former, but I can't reproduce the latter either
<seb128> I had some errors in valgrind
<seb128> and I can reproduce the segfault
<seb128> but not under valgrind
<tseliot> seb128: can you try xserver-xorg-core from the same ppa, please?
<seb128> what ppa is that?
<tseliot> seb128: https://launchpad.net/~canonical-x/+archive/x-staging
<tseliot> seb128: the new qt and xserver-xorg-core are what you should test
<tseliot> as per https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1307701
<tseliot> they might fix the second bug you mentioned too
<seb128> tseliot, thanks
<seb128> om26er, hey, did you have slots to look at the u-s-s CI issues?
<om26er> seb128, sorry I didn't look at that yesterday. Looking at that now and it seems its failing on the very start of the test.
<om26er> the phase where it actually expects a page to be opened
<om26er> seb128, which MR is it related to ?
<seb128> om26er, it happens on all the mps for a month or so
<seb128> well the settings ones
<seb128> om26er, https://code.launchpad.net/~diegosarmentero/ubuntu-system-settings/ignore-updates-autopilot/+merge/218481 is a recent one
<seb128> or https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu-system-settings/+activereviews if you prefer the list
<om26er> seb128, it passes on mako, only otto is failing. I'll run them on my desktop first and see if it happens or not and then contact francis
<seb128> om26er, thanks
<seb128> om26er, I've no issue locally either, so I'm unsure how to debug
<seb128> tseliot, mlankhorst, pmcgowan: the xserver/qt in that ppa works great for me, I can dnd the apps without issue and I didn't hit the xserver segfault yet (though I couldn't easily trigger it before, so it might be that I just got lucky so far)
<pmcgowan> seb128, awesome
<mlankhorst> seb128: goodie, I've written an xorg-integration-tests testcase too
<tseliot> :)
<jibel> om26er,^^ can you try xserver-xorg-core from x-staging ppa and verify it fixes 1307701 for you too and that X stops crashing
<mlankhorst> it's qtbase that's important :P
<jibel> om26er, or what mlankhorst said :)
<mlankhorst> the xorg-server parts probably only matters if you run in valgrind
<seb128> enable the ppa and upgrade
<seb128> those are the only trusty updates in there
<mlankhorst> I'll sru it tomorrow after people tested it some more, needs a small fix to prevent the bug from occuring on tablets. :P
<seb128> Laney, do you some free slot to discuss the unity8-desktop image/where we start to bootstrap that?
<Laney> seb128: yeah, now?
<seb128> Laney, well, just IRC chatting on the channel ... now if it works for you, yes ;-)
<seb128> do you have opinion on where we start?
<Laney> what do you think the idea is?
<Laney> is it to provide all of the applications and everything?
<seb128> the goal ? or how I would start ?
<Laney> mir or x?
<Laney> the goal
<seb128> the goal seems to be "unity8 on Mir + new core apps + some more desktop apps"
<seb128> well I assume on Mir
<seb128> like unity8-desktop-session-mir
<seb128> Rick said it's fine to have one app on screen at time/fullscreen
<seb128> bregma, there? your input might be useful in that discussion
<Laney> so it's -desktop-session-mir and the apps from touch
<Laney> I don't know how we'd do click apps ...
<seb128> let's start by not doing click
<bregma> seb128, what?  Are you planning to do an ISO or something?
<seb128> bregma, yes
<seb128> bregma, Rick wants us to do a new desktop iso with unity8
<bregma> that's what I thought
<seb128> bregma, the idea is to not disrupt too much the current desktop, so rather than being too agressive swapping pieces, we build a new iso and ramp that up
<Laney> it feels like a more sensible approach to me
<bregma> right, need a new metapackage to replace ubuntu-desktop
<Laney> we can still do swapping but there's less pressure to get stuff out there
<Laney> because it already is
<seb128> bregma, basically we want to replace unity7 by unity8-desktop-session-mir right?
<seb128> well I guess lot of stuff to drop as well
<Laney> we don't need any of the applications that won't work yet
<seb128> right
<seb128> so do we start from an empty seed
<seb128> or do we "derive" from some existing one?
<bregma> seb128, I'd start by copying the ubuntu-desktop package, stripping anything X-related (gnome, unity) but leaving the rest, and adding unity8-desktop-session-mir, then seed that
<jibel> mlankhorst, seb128 it's been hard but I'm able to reproduce 1307701 with the package from the PPA
<jibel> I get Xlib: sequence lost in reply type 0x23 on the console
<jibel> I'll try to find a reliable way to reproduce it
<seb128> jibel, thanks, what did you do to reproduce it?
<seb128> jibel, is that the same stacktracE?
<jibel> seb128, no crash for the moment, just DnD is broken
<seb128> jibel, oh, ok
<jibel> seb128, I've 2 gallery-app, 1 gnome-terminal and 1 gedit. I'll reboot and try again
<seb128> bregma, do you know what's the status of XMir?
<seb128> jibel, ok
<bregma> seb128, as far as I know it is not longer being developed and not really supported
<seb128> ok
<seb128> so not really an option if we want to get ubiquity working
<seb128> the right solution is either to get the GTK Mir backend working then, or to port ubiquity to qt5
<xnox> bregma: someone from mir team was looking into getting ubiquity to run under Mir was that at all invested in?
<xnox> bregma: can qt4 work under Mir?
<xnox> bregma: else i'll need to look into porting ubiquity to qt5 urgently.
<bregma> yeah
<xnox> bregma: was that answer to 1st, 2nd, or 3rd statements? =)
<xnox> bregma: or none ? =)
<bregma> or just include an X server to run ubiquity on a separate session maybe?
<xnox> bregma: that's what ubiquity already does by default.
<bregma> then there should not be a rush to get it working on Mir
<xnox> bregma: so it pre-empts lightdm, and it starts it's own X server & ubiquity-dm "display manager".
<seb128> well, that image is not going to have X
<xnox> bregma: if one quits that, lightdm does auto-login into whatever default is.
<bregma> unless we include it just for ubiquity, as a transition
<bregma> stage 1; include X, stage 2: port uniquity
<xnox> seb128: seeding X just for ubiquity sounds good. I can actually go ahead and add an explicit dependency in ubiquity just in case.
<seb128> well, how would that work?
<seb128> like you boot the live session
<seb128> end up with Mir/unity8
<seb128> how do you run ubiquity/what happens?
<xnox> seb128: oh, you will not be able to start ubiquity from live session.
<xnox> seb128: you can boot into installer or you can boot into live session -> the way the boot menu is currently presented on UEFI that is the case.
<seb128> ok
<seb128> so you have both options
<seb128> test/install
<seb128> but the test/liveCD can't lead to an install
<seb128> that wfm
<seb128> the goal is to have GTK/Mir ready this cycle anyway
<Laney> will it install X then?
<xnox> Laney: yes, i will add an X dependency on ubiquity-frontend-gtk.
<Laney> that sounds weird
<Laney> we'll be able to seed whatever we want
<xnox> Laney: ok.
<Laney> I was more meaning that it's not that desirable to install it in this case
<Laney> but I guess it doesn't matter that much
<xnox> Laney: well if i port kubuntu's qt4 frontend to qt5 that may work, but will pull in python3-qt5.
<xnox> Laney: unless i use something like pyotherside.
<seb128> that image is not going to be built from main
<xnox> seb128: oh, cool!
<seb128> so doesn't bother about component mismatch
<seb128> well, at least not in a first time
<seb128> we don't want to block it on promoting all the core apps
<bregma> doesn't lightdm require X11 anyway?  Or is there a Unity8 Greeter for lightdm I'm missing?
<seb128> we don't need a greeter to autologin
<seb128> but good point
<seb128> we might as well keep xorg on the iso for now
<Laney> I think we'll have to
<Laney> I'd just rather avoid pulling it by accident if that's possible
<Laney> not the end of the world for now though, for that reason and probably others
<Laney> I think a good first goal is to get something you can boot and install even if it doesn't have much content beyond unity8
<bregma> and the core apps, there's no point in installing a system without sudoku
<xnox> bregma: hahahahahahahaha
<bregma> or, um, the terminal app
<bregma> I meant to say
<Laney> what's the one that is a grid of stallmans
<didrocks> bregma: way less funny! :p
<Laney> we should open that by default
<didrocks> Laney: +1
<didrocks> otherwise, we can't do Linux Action Shows!
<Laney> but actually click packages present issues
<didrocks> :)
<didrocks> in Mir world even?
<Laney> almost certainly not for the first images
<Laney> for a more desktop style iso I think so
<Laney> I didn't look into how they are preinstalled for touch
<Laney> but I'm anticipating issues
<ogra_> livecd-rootfs has a hackish hook for that
<didrocks> ogra_: ^
<didrocks> ah :)
<Laney> hahaha
<Laney> reassuring
<didrocks> faster :p
<bregma> as I understand, the problem is not click packages per se but the installer back end is incompatible between apt and click
<xnox> Laney: they are preinstalled into livefs and that's about it.
<xnox> Laney: users can "unregister" or "upgrade" them.
<Laney> so the concept of installing the image probably breaks that
<xnox> Laney: that is -> make newer version my version, or make it not available to me.
<ogra_> the hook reads http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/click_packages/click_list and just installs them
<xnox> Laney: nah, it's all preserved.
<xnox> Laney: as long as /usr/ is copied across you'd have everything afresh & registered on the installed imaged.
<xnox> Laney: is this image going to use system-image updates?
<Laney> is it ...
<xnox> Laney: in that case ubiquity installer is pointless.
<Laney> no
<ogra_> do you guys at least properly start with a system-image install ?
<seb128> no
<ogra_> lame
<seb128> !
<Laney> not lame
<Laney> the idea is to get something which works
<ogra_> super lame ...
<xnox> ogra_: that is patent encombared you mean "ogg" don't you?
<seb128> we are going to need to sort out system-image, and how to keep apt working
<seb128> clicks as well
<Laney> also the question is before the tb
<ogra_> xnox, lol
<Laney> it is pretty much out of scope
<seb128> but those are out of scope to get started
 * ogra_ eagerly waits to be able to upgrade his desktop in 15 min instead of 4h
<seb128> Laney, ok, so we start doing the same as we do for normal desktop
<seb128> just with another seed?
<Laney> think so
<seb128> k
<xnox> seb128: note that current touch images don't install recommends -> which may or may not mean it is installable with recommends.
<seb128> so step 1, doing a seed
<Laney> we'll need to talk to foundations/cdimage people to get it set up
<seb128> step 2, finding somebody who knows how to build an iso from it
<xnox> Laney: anyone can push a new seed.
<Laney> thanks I know how seed branches work
<xnox> Laney: into the seed-project, it's just ping cjwatson to get germinate running against it.
<Laney> I'm talking about cdimage
<seb128> k
<seb128> Laney, it's getting eod for me, so I don't think I'm going to start on that today
<xnox> Laney: ah, right. I thought you are ~ubuntu-cdimage person with access & all.
<seb128> tomorrow is off here
<Laney> access but not all the knowledge
<seb128> Laney, if you want to start the seed tomorrow, please do
<seb128> otherwise we can look at it friday if you prefer
<Laney> ok
<seb128> once we have the seed we can start looking for nice cdimage people to help us getting an iso built/published ;-)
<Laney> I could at least make a good go at doing that if someone told me all the places to touch
<seb128> bregma, btw, is there any trick to make unity8 work with touch? I find it weird that my inspiron touch screen works fine under unity7 but unity8 doesn't do anything from it
<Laney> should be possible to get some of the way locally anyway
<bregma> seb128, your hardware may need to be defined as an Android touch device for Mir to recognize it properly
<seb128> bregma, that's an inspiron 11 (3000 serie) ... how do I do that?
<bregma> all of mine work out of the box now, but initially I had to create a file somewhere with hexadecimal device IDs in the title, can;t recall the details....
<bregma> I'll need to dig that up
<seb128> bregma, should I rather ask on #ubuntu-mir maybe?
<bregma> maybe, that would probably be RAOF's area
<seb128> ok, so for later tonight
<seb128> well, anyway, no hurry
<seb128> I just tried the session, and that was one of the things that seemed weird to me
 * ogra_ sees the backlog and wonders if "tomorrow is off here" is the most used sentence in french ... 
<ogra_> feels like i hear that once a week recently :)
<Laney> it's a good time of year!
<Laney> we have a bank holiday that clashes with malta :|
<ogra_> bah, thats sad
<Laney> the next week will be shorter :)
<seb128> just swap it
<seb128> ogra_, May is gold for holidays here yes
<seb128> ogra_, btw tomorrow is thanks to you guys
<ogra_> swap it with a french ... then you can get two for one ;)
<seb128> it's the end of the second war
<ogra_> haha
<ogra_> yeah, we dont celebrate that here ... i wonder why
 * ogra_ guesses germany would have the most reason to celebrate that 
<seb128> yeah
<Laney> yay @ u-s-s cross building again
<Laney> laney aka sisyphus
<didrocks> see you guys! :)
<seb128> Laney, what was the issue?
<Laney> cross pkg-config stopped looking in /usr/lib/pkgconfig/ for pcfiles
<Laney> so a couple of packages needed to be converted to use multiarch paths
<Laney> climbing time, see you tomorrow!
<seb128> k
<seb128> I guess it's a wanted change in pkg-config?
<Laney> yeah it means you can't accidentally get build arch libraries
<Laney> (didn't go climbing, weird elbow pain/tendonitis â wait a day or two)
<seb128> k
<seb128> Laney, good luck with the elbow, I hope you don't have a real tendonitis, or you can day->week
<seb128> on that note, dinner time, see you on friday everyone
<Laney> thanks, i'll see how it's improving tomorrow i guess
<Laney> have a nice day off
<seb128> thanks
<mlankhorst> so it's stil possible to reproduce, just a whole lot harder?
<Laney> mlankhorst: does xorg.conf always get moved away during release upgrades, do you know?
<Laney> I just had a laptop that was upgraded to 14.04 today which it'd happened to, breaking brightness changing
<Laney> what's the mouse gesture for opening the dash or the application switcher?
<Laney> on that same laptop (macbook air) they accidentally activate all the time and it's really really annoying
<Laney> (not a new bug, that happened with 13.10 too)
<Laney> Trevinho: ^?
<Laney> maybe it's a synaptics problem
 * Laney goes to bed
<Trevinho> Laney: mh, I've never been working much on the gesture side (as I don't have the hardware for it), but there have been some fixes about the launcher showing on 4-finger gestures afaik
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-05-08
 * xnox what idiot uploaded empathy without update the ~ubuntu-desktop branch
 * xnox ah xnox
<pitti> Good morning
<mlankhorst> Hello, world!
<mlankhorst> Laney: yeah this is a bug fixed by updates
<mlankhorst> it only happens once when updating to trusty, so you would need to have -updates enabled before you hit that bug :P
<mlankhorst> Laney: and what version of macbook specifically?
<Laney> morning
<Laney> mlankhorst: ummmmm I think it's a 2010 one
<Laney> Trevinho: I think it must misinterpret the number of fingers you're using or something
<Laney> you can be scrolling down a web page and then the application switcher comes up and minimises the thing you're working on, for example
<mlankhorst> it's too sensitive, I think..
<Laney> is it tweakable?
<Laney> we could try to find better values then submit them back upstream or something
<mlankhorst> yeah it's tweakable, sec
<Laney> or maybe I'll bring it to malta instead of my laptop and we can look at it there ...
<mlankhorst> hm sec
<mlankhorst> does the device show up in lsusb -v ?
<mlankhorst> Laney: you probably want to bump FingerLow and FingerHigh..
<Laney> i can't check now, will do soon
<mlankhorst> synclient FingerLow=70 FingerHigh=75 is the default, try setting it to 100 / 105 or so
<mlankhorst> will be gone on restarting X
<Laney> instant apply?
<mlankhorst> yeah
<Laney> okay will try it when I get a chance, ty
<Laney> are the defaults per model?
<Laney> presumably those work for most people
<mlankhorst> sort of, macbook has its own values
<mlankhorst> but mostly calculated on other models
<mlankhorst> oh right, need to do it the other way around, fingerhigh first, then fingerlow
<mlankhorst> Laney: hm I've been using FingerHigh=105 FingerLow=85 seems to help a bit
<Laney> do you get the issue too?
<mlankhorst> a bit, but not sure if that's still the case, I'll have to test longer tonight :P
<rickspencer3> good morning desktoptoppers
<mlankhorst> morning!
<rickspencer3> what, no seb128 this morning?
 * rickspencer3 sips coffee
<mlankhorst> no jibel either :/
<rickspencer3> wow
<ogra_> frenchies ...
<ogra_> off half of may
<rickspencer3> must be nice
<rickspencer3> what about pitti? he's not an official desktopper anymore, but ...
<rickspencer3> I guess I'm only temporary for a while anyway :)
<ogra_> and not officially french yet either ;)
<rickspencer3> ogra_, well, I had moved on from the French topic :)
<ogra_> heh
<rickspencer3> though, pitti parle bien francais ;)
<ogra_> oui oui :)
<Laney> nein danke
<rickspencer3> morning Laney :)
<Laney> hey rickspencer3, how's it going?
<rickspencer3> I'm sipping some coffee before I head downtown to my coworking space
<rickspencer3> I have a big day, looks like ... will be good to be out of the house for it
 * rickspencer3 sluurrrp
 * Laney is just finishing pot of tea #2
<rickspencer3> Laney, I guess we are just stereotypes of our respective cultures
<Laney> yeehaw!
<pitti> rickspencer3: peut-Ãªtre je peux parler un peu franÃ§ais, mais je travaille aujourd'hui :)
 * rickspencer3 polishes gun
<rickspencer3> hey pitti!
<pitti> oh, so it's a French holiday? I was already wondering why jibel wouldn't turn up
<rickspencer3> I am having very nice flashbacks to 2009 :)
 * pitti hugs rickspencer3
 * rickspencer3 hugs pitti
<Laney> xnox: it got reverted :(
<xnox> Laney: i know, with an angry email to foundations mailing list.
<Laney> oops
<Laney> oh well, we'll get there one day
<xnox> Laney: "I'm asking to delay this discussion until the sprint."
 * Laney nod
<xnox> Laney: is it sufficient, or undesirable to change gnome-terminal default to "run command as login shell" toggle in the settings?
<mlankhorst> well I created my testcase for the pointer bug!
<Laney> xnox: It's true that /etc/profile and ~/.bash_profile source the bashrc files, but I'm not sure there are other side effects or we want to rely on this behaviour
<Laney> I don't think I'd mind if there were an /etc/bashrc.d/ that we could install that file into
<xnox> Laney: /etc/bashrc.d/ is a miss-normer. Since things in /etc/profile.d/ can detect if they are login/interractive/both and act appropriately.
<xnox> Laney: and nobody else has bashrc.d
<xnox> Laney: that's not a deal breaker, for me, however.
<Laney> then I think profile.d is probably the misnomer
<Laney> or things can be symlinked
<xnox> =) ok
<Laney> anyway we can have the discussion at $sprint as requested
<xnox> Laney: well, doko was against profile.d and it had to be added in base-files, instead of bash in Debian...
<xnox> and he still is.
<Laney> haha
<Laney> I think that ship has sailed
<xnox> Laney: cause about "bashrc.d" he commented: "i don't see it in base-files"
<xnox> i mean we can ship base-files which dpkg-diverts /etc/bash.bashrc and installs a copy that sources profile.d .....
<xnox> Laney: fedora sources profile.d from their system bashrc
<Laney> yes I think that would be fine, just saying that if people are opposed there are other possibilities
<xnox> Laney: the only person opposing, is the one that opposes the whole notion of profile.d. If that is not biased, I don't know what is =)
<dpm> hey Laney, some folks are asking me why there isn't a Traditional Chinese language option to choose from in System Settings. Where is the list of languages generated from? I can choose e.g. Catalan in there even before installing the language packs for it (it won't work until I install the langpack, but it seems I still can choose it nevertheless)
<dpm> there are two options that look Chinese to the untrained eye (such as for me :) - but they tell me one is for Simplified Chinese (China) and the second for Simplified Chinese (Singapore)
<dpm> at the bottom of the list of languages
<Laney> dpm: It runs 'locale -a' to get the list of installed locales
<Laney> then converts those back into a display name
<Laney> I think we do have zh-hans so if it says zh-hant then there might be a bug there
<Laney> dpm: oh I misread
<dpm> Laney, ah, thanks. So what makes a locale an "installed locale"? If I run it on my desktop, I can see http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/7415847/ - which shows zh_CN and zh_SG
<dpm> strangely, I don't have the langpacks for those locales on my desktop
<dpm> and they seem to coincide with the two Chinese locales shown on the phone
<dpm> ah, correction: I do have the zh-hans language pack installed on my system
<dpm> (on the desktop, I mean)
<Laney> I think zh-hans generates zh-sg
<dpm> yeah, sounds likely
<Laney> so they probably share translations
<Laney> if you install zh-hant you get zh_HK and zh_TW
<dpm> so it'd be a matter of adding zh-hant to the image to see a Traditional Chinese choice
<Laney> which will probably appear as Chinese (Hong Kong) and Chinese (Taiwan)
<Laney> translated
<Laney> hopefully that's okay ...
<dpm> but I'm still puzzled as to why I saw Catalan
<dpm> ah, perhaps the es langpacks generate the ca locale too?
<dpm> on the phone, I mean
<pitti> dpm: yes, the -ll langpack generates all available ll_??.UTF-8 locales
<Laney> I don't have ca_ on my phone here
<pitti> zh-{hans,hant} are a special case, all other langpacks work equally like this ^
<pitti> Laney: es_CA
<Laney> oh I thought he was talking about catalan as in ca_* the language
<pitti> oh dear, sorry
<pitti> yes, I mixed that up -- it's ca_ES of course
<Laney> I'm not sure if anything other than the langpack is likely to have generated that
<dpm> pitti, Laney, nevermind, that helps. The take is that I'll have to request the zh-hant to be added to the images for the MAE demo. Where is the best place to ask for that?
<Laney> dpm: do a merge proposal against lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu-touch.utopic
<Laney> I think
<dpm> great, thanks Laney
<bregma> xnox, are you going to SRU the #1307701  patch to qtbase-opensource-src for 14.04?  There's a push to get it fixed from Canonical's OEM people.
<pmcgowan> bregma, can you join a call on that right now?
<xnox> bregma: i cannot access that bug number.
<xnox> bregma: so i don't know what you are talking about.
<xnox> bregma: or i am being silly =)
<xnox> bug  #1307701
<xnox> bug #1307701
<xnox> bot is dead =(
<xnox> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1307701
<bregma> that's the one
<xnox> bregma: no, i don't plan to do with that bug report anything at all. Maybe you mean somebody else? e.g. mlankhorst ?
<mlankhorst> bregma: hold on
<mlankhorst> bregma: I am still working on the final fix, think i got it now
<bregma> xnox, sorry, got confused with a different bug you were working on, it's mlankhorst I'm after after all
<mlankhorst> but I am uncertain what the implications will be..
 * bregma always has too many irons in the fire
<xnox> bregma: it will land in e.g. 14.04.2 =) i guess you want it earlier than that
<bregma> xnox, the bug I wanted to ask _you_ about was bug  #1317276 Unity 7 GCC ICE on ARM64
<bregma> did you get a chance to look at that while the build image is still around?
<xnox> bregma: i've stashed the binaries + source + build log for myself to inspect.
<xnox> bregma: i didn't check it yet.
<xnox> bregma: let me kick that off.
<bregma> xnox, OK, it's going to block my landing, but at least the data won't get lost
<om26er> mlankhorst, hey, did you receive the touch laptop yet ? re: X crashing with touch.
<mlankhorst> om26er: not yet but I made a xorg-integration-tests test for it
 * rickspencer3 gets up at coworking space to grab more coffee
<pmcgowan> mlankhorst, I forgot to ask if we are still seeing the crashes that were reported
<mlankhorst> pmcgowan: not sure tbh, the way qt solved problems to prevent pointer emulation was evil. :P
<pmcgowan> ok
<mlankhorst> but i think the ~ppa7 I uploaded solved the bugs
<Laney> attente tedg kenvandine mpt larsu: settings / indicators meeting?
<larsu> Laney: no news from me in that regard - do you need me for anything?`
<Laney> larsu: not in particular
 * larsu joins anyway
<mlankhorst> om26er: no? :P
<om26er> mlankhorst, so that was a ask to test ? :)
<om26er> mlankhorst, sure I can try that
<mlankhorst> lets see if it finished building yet
<mlankhorst> ~ppa6 should work, but I prefer some testing on ~ppa7 too, just to be certain :)
<Sweetshark> ricotz: FWIW, I just uploaded 4.2.4 to libreoffice-staging
<ricotz> Sweetshark, thanks, for got to mention cherry-picking this would have been nice -- http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?h=libreoffice-4-2&id=10fef58379630c9d8e8ba76258baee917959e7c5
<Sweetshark> ricotz: well, maybe later ...
<Sweetshark> seb128: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/174835270/buildlog_ubuntu-precise-armhf.libreoffice_1%3A3.5.7-0ubuntu6_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz <- meh.
<ricotz> Sweetshark, backports are building
<robert_ancell> RAOF, hey. The SRU for bug 1286766 hasn'tfully rolled out because whoopsie-daisy has picked up new crash reports for that version. Looking at the reports it seems like they are memory corruption issues, and looking at errors.ubuntu.com seems to indicate that nautilus has a low-level issue like this (https://errors.ubuntu.com/?release=Ubuntu%2014.04&package=nautilus&period=day) - i.e. many random stack trace reports.
<robert_ancell> My guess is that the SRU hasn't caused the problem, it's just that nautilus is flaky. Do you agree / what's the next step to unblocking this?
<robert_ancell> RAOF, also asked bdmurray in #ubuntu-devel
<RAOF> robert_ancell: Ah, I see that Brian has handled that. Good, I don't know how to manually futz with the staged update percentage :)
<robert_ancell> RAOF, yeah, I had no idea either :)
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-05-09
<pitti> Good morning
<mpt> âPasswords or encryption keys are required to access the network 'COWF'. Iâm pretending not to know *which* are required.â â NetworkManager
<mpt> charles, could you follow up on bug 1196059? Seems like one or two other bugs there that will get forgotten in a report of a fixed bug
<didrocks> mpt: hey, do you know who I can contact so that ubuntu-fr get the dvd covers source? As usual, we are doing our own french respin and this time, we didn't get the sources
<mpt> didrocks, Marcus Haslam
<didrocks> mpt: thanks!
<mpt> didrocks, and if something that usually happens didnât happen this time, please ask him to add it to the checklist for things to do when producing the artwork.
<didrocks> mpt: yeah, will surely do! thanks again for the pointer :)
<Laney> morning!
<darkxst> Laney, Hey
<Laney> hey ;-)
<seb128> good morning desktopers, happy friday!
<didrocks> morning Laney, darkxst, seb128!
<darkxst> hey didrocks, seb128!
<Laney> good fridays off?
<Laney> thursdays*
<didrocks> Laney: oh, we can get Friday off as well? \o/
<seb128> quite good indeed!
<didrocks> yeah, was nice thanks!
<didrocks> :)
<seb128> except the weather maybe
<didrocks> the weather was perfect here :)
<seb128> nice
<seb128> I had no issue with the grey weather, I played tennis indoor and went to the spa in the afternoon
<seb128> but weather is still supposed to be not-so-nice for the w.e :/
<didrocks> argh :/
<Laney> yeah, same here
<didrocks> (should be fine here on saturday, not sunday)
<Laney> http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2641170
<seb128> quite mixed weather
<didrocks> argh, and a deja-dup backup failing again :/
 * didrocks looks at mterry, who isn't there
<seb128> same error you had before?
<didrocks> yeah
<didrocks> I guess it's only when it's trying to do a restore test
<didrocks> and no duplicity crash
<didrocks> I'll keep things opened and see with him
<darkxst> Laney, so how do go about getting colord-gtk promoted again?
<Laney> an archive admin can do it
<seb128> just get it used
<seb128> that's going to make it show on component mismatch
<darkxst> seb128,https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/1:3.8.6-0ubuntu1
<darkxst> =dep-wait
<darkxst> will that generate a mismatch?
<didrocks> (done)
<seb128> darkxst, http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.txt
<seb128>  o colord-gtk: gir1.2-colordgtk-1.0 libcolord-gtk-dev libcolord-gtk1
<seb128>    MIR: #1282372 (Fix Committed)
<seb128>    [Reverse-Depends: Rescued from colord-gtk, libcolord-gtk-dev]
<seb128>    [Reverse-Build-Depends: gnome-control-center (MAIN)]
<seb128> didrocks, done = promotion?
<Laney> the proposed one doesn't generate emails though, so it's easier to miss
<didrocks> seb128: yeah
 * Laney stabs live-build
<seb128> didrocks, thanks
<didrocks> see bug :)
<didrocks> yw!
<seb128> doh, tracker MIR
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, I put that on the shelf
<didrocks> I'm really vary about it
<seb128> darkxst, nautilus still behaves the exact same way than before if tracker is not installed?
<darkxst> seb128, will make sure tracker plugin on runs on GNOME sessions
<seb128> well, I've no doubt you are going to make sure tracker works for you
<seb128> but please make sure it doesn't create extra depends or behaviour changes on other desktops
<seb128> those of us who don't want tracker
<darkxst> seb128, it will create a dep on libtracker
<darkxst> but not the binaries
<darkxst> its only like 50KB or so
<seb128> and not change the behaviour ?
<darkxst> it will not run on !GNOME
<darkxst> but we need to link to the lib, to be even able to build it
<seb128> k, that's fine
<seb128> well, we need somebody wanting to maintain tracker actively/provide support for it
<seb128> if it's in main
<seb128> which our desktop team doesn't want to do
<seb128> but I guess that's a question for the MIR review
<didrocks> seb128: on the MIR, the ubuntu gnome seems to commit to do that
<didrocks> team*
<didrocks> I would still like a security review from jdstrand
<seb128> ok, good
<seb128> yeah, that wouldn't be too much
<didrocks> but I need first to do a first pass
<seb128> Laney, did you start looking at the unity8 iso ?
<seb128> Laney, I'm going to create a blueprint now, then start looking at the seed (let me know if you had a start on it so I don't dup work ;-)
<Laney> seb128: not the seed, I'm trying to build an unchanged ubuntu iso to start
<seb128> ok, good
<seb128> I'm going to start on the blueprint/list of packages then
<Sweetshark> moin!
<Sweetshark> seb128: sooo, whats the suggessted version for the fixed precise SRU? 1:3.5.7-0ubuntu7? or maybe 1:3.5.7-0ubuntu6.1?
<seb128> Sweetshark, either works, just made sure it's not a version that was used in other series
<Sweetshark> seb128: and a/ should it have a new changelog entry or a modified existing one? b/ if new changelog, the -v for dpkg-genchanges should be the last version in precise (not the last version in precise-proposed) thus having two versions in the changes file, right?
<Sweetshark> (as for other versions/series: we dont even have anything as ancient as 1:3.5.7-xxx in any other series at all)
<seb128> Sweetshark, b/ and yes, -v1:3.5.7-0ubuntu5 (or whatever is the current precise-updates version)
<seb128> e.g the .changes should include both uploads
<Sweetshark> seb128: thanks.
<seb128> yw!
<Sweetshark> seb128: FWIW, Ill write a short postmortem mail still on why this happened and how we might prevent it the future (hopefully still today)
<seb128> Sweetshark, ok
<seb128> Sweetshark, didn't you get a non virtual ppa with armhf builders? could we have test build it there?
<ochosi> seb128: quick question, anything else to do for https://launchpad.net/bugs/1316509 ? (btw, just saw on errors.ubuntu.com that the related bug is #5 in the overall list for 14.04...)
<Laney> okay ubuntu-defaults-image produces a working iso
<Laney> I wonder what that was doing differently to me ...
<seb128> ochosi, no, I'm going to sponsor that today, sorry for the delay, yesterday was an holiday here
<seb128> Laney, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/client-1410-unity8-desktop-iso btw (you probably saw it through email, subscribed you)
<Laney> yep, thanks
<Laney> I'll take a couple of the items
<seb128> thanks, I was unsure how to split them, those are just a few random one to get something on the list
<seb128> so feel free to regroup/tweak/add some other ones
<Laney> yeah i'm sure more will come up
<Sweetshark> seb128: yes, thatwould be one conclusion in the post-mortem. I didnt use the PPA yet, as we wanted to make the builder able to produce binaries that we could dump into the archive without rebuilding again and that needed a specific setup.
<Sweetshark> (actually two setups and PPAs IIRC, one for ubuntu+1 uploads and one for SRUs)
<seb128> Sweetshark, right, without that you could still use the ppa for test builds
<Sweetshark> seb128: yep
<seb128> but even better if that could be used for security updates/SRUs
<ochosi> seb128: sure, no worries! thanks for the sponsoring!
<seb128> yw!
<darkxst> seb128, Laney, so what can happen with g-s-d/g-c-c can they be added to ubuntu-gnome packageset while still in main? or should I just apply for ubuntu-desktop?
<seb128> darkxst, I'm fine having them added to the ubuntu-gnome packageset, we might want to move the schemas/shared-data to be built from the unity variants instead, that might let us demote g-s-d
<Laney> I think it's best to move them there, as when we finally fix the sets to be generated again they'll require an exception at that point
<Laney> http://people.canonical.com/~laney/random-scripts/build-ubuntu-iso
<Laney> that works to build an unchanged iso
<Laney> should be able to add a new project to livecd-rootfs (auto/config) to test this new stuff iiuc
<seb128> Laney, is that a new script?
<seb128> don't we have standard tools/documented workflow to build isos?
<Laney> it's not very easy
<seb128> :-(
<Laney> some of that was nicked from ubuntu-defaults-builder though, which was useful
<seb128> I tried once with ubuntu-defaults-builder when Kylin started
<seb128> that worked fine
<seb128> but cjwatson helped them to use the standard infra/seeds later on
<Laney> they still don't use seeds
<seb128> they don't use ubuntu-defaults-builder anymore afaik?
<seb128> I didn't follow the details
<Laney> sure do
<seb128> k, I had the impression Colin made them do things differently
<Laney> it's why they have all those hacks to remove packages and stuff
<seb128> but I didn't follow, so maybe I got the wrong impression
<Laney> because they aren't using proper seeds yet
<Laney> that is the goal though
<seb128> crazyness
<seb128> building an iso should be easier :/
<Laney> for most people ubuntu-defaults-builder should be quite easy
<Laney> we want to be able to test a new project though
<darkxst> seb128, why not just split the schemas? I am a little concerned about having all these redundant keys, in g-s-d
<darkxst> basically people google problem (it say to set some key with dconf-editor) but that is an old key that does nothing in GNOME
<darkxst> and its only going to get worse as cycles progress
<darkxst> g-c-c shared data makes sense though since that stuff doesnt really change
<darkxst> (atleast until gnome decide to dump it all into a gresource, although that probablty won't happen for icons etc)
<Laney> http://ubuntuone.com/6tnvx5bt6IuhIG8DNFq4X0
<seb128> Laney, what remix are you doing? ;-)
<seb128> darkxst, split the schemas how?
<darkxst> seb128, fork them
<Laney> heh
<seb128> like have a new source?
<Laney> I made a version which doesn't install ubuntu-desktop
<seb128> or like change the keys for Unity?
<Laney> that's what you get
<seb128> k
<darkxst> yes rename 3.8 keys for unity
<seb128> that would require to migrate datas
<seb128> do you suggest doing that for all keys?
<seb128> or just the ones GNOME drops?
<darkxst> seb128, just brainstorming here really, I really certain what is best
<darkxst> probably most of the keys dropped in 3.12, could also be dropped in u-s-d
<darkxst> but things like the changes in 3.10 are quite disruptive for u-s-d
<seb128> ideally upstream would treat gsettings schemas as an abi
<seb128> e.g don't do incompatible changes
<seb128> especially that gsettings abort on missing keus
<seb128> keys
<darkxst> seb128, would be even better if the world didnt crash for a missing key!
<seb128> indeed
<rickspencer3> good morning desktoppers
<rickspencer3> o/ seb128 are you back today?
<seb128> rickspencer3, hey
<seb128> rickspencer3, yes, only the 8th was an holiday
<rickspencer3> welcome back :)
<seb128> thanks, you too ;-)
<seb128> (you were off 2 days, then it was off for us, little overlap this week)
<Laney> seb128: I made ppa:~ubuntu-desktop/unity8-flavour to put packages in for making test images
<Laney> will update the iso script to add that
<seb128> Laney, ok, great
<seb128> Laney, I've a list of packages but I'm not sure what we want to do
<seb128> do we want a proper seed?
<Laney> think so
<seb128> or start with the Kylin style
<seb128> like adding packages to install/remove
<Laney> I think we've learned that that doesn't work very well for flavours
<seb128> Laney, so you use http://people.canonical.com/~laney/random-scripts/build-ubuntu-iso to build an iso? how do you provide it the seed/packages to install/...?
<Laney> + seeds would be closer to what touch does already
<Laney> that builds just an unmodified Ubuntu iso at the minute
<Laney> you modify auto/config which comes from livecd-rootfs to add a new PROJECT
<Laney> which then says what to install
<Laney> so we'll add a new project type in there that installs the new task/metapackage
<seb128> k
 * seb128 gets livecd-rootfs to have a look
<Laney> xnox: do you know how the ubuntu-live task works?
<Laney> http://ubuntuone.com/6tnvx5bt6IuhIG8DNFq4X0 shows that it doesn't really install enough packages on its own
<xnox> Could not access backend storage
<Laney> f5
<xnox> Laney: that looks like a reasonable default ubiquity look, if like a desktop is missing.
<xnox> =)
<xnox> Laney: are you expecting ubuntu-settings-daemon or gnome-settings-daemon & e.g. light-themes installed?
<Laney> yeah I'm wondering if it should install a theme and icons or not
<xnox> Laney: i think you do want ubuntu-font installed & that set.
<xnox> Laney: look at ubiquity-dm and i'm happy to tweak it to make ubiquity look better in this strip down environment.
<Laney> my question is is that the responsibility of the flavour or should the ubuntu-live task do it
<Laney> i'm not massively interested in supporting the bare bones thing :P
<seb128> ./build-ubuntu-iso: 65: ./build-ubuntu-iso: PROJECT=ubuntu: not found
<seb128> hum
<xnox> hm, a bit of both. e.g. one needs to explicitly seeds things "e.g. unity-settings-daemon" and ubiquity-dm has been tweaked to take advantage of whats's available in the "live session"
<xnox> so we try to mimic "live session" as much as possible.... but if there is no live-session to mimic, one needs to seed things to trick ubiquity-dm expectations.
<xnox> it's just you want to be seeded, in a way that gets auto-removed on the installed system.
<xnox> similar to how e.g. btrfs-tools is seeded.
<Laney> that's fine
<xnox> i looks like you do have a gnome/unity-settings-daemon running
<xnox> since solid blue is the default background color.
<xnox> and ubiquity does nothing to that, so a package which sets default background schema key / override is missing.
<xnox> ditto, indicators are present -> their icon theme clearly isn't, and/or settings keys to pick the right default theme.
<charles> mpt, wrt, bug 1196059, sure
<mpt> thanks
<seb128> Laney, that script is supposed to be run into a livecd-rootfs tree or something?
<Laney> seb128: no, a clean directory
<seb128> Laney," build-ubuntu-iso: PROJECT=ubuntu: not found"
<seb128> doh
<Laney> that sounds like a syntax error though
<Laney> but it works for me
<seb128> I guess I need to install livecd-rootfs
<Laney> yep
<Laney> i put a list at the top
<seb128> oh, DOH
<seb128> I though that was a list of stuff the script was installing :p
<seb128> thanks ;-)
<Laney> that list might not be complete
<Laney> like if I had some stuff already installed
<seb128> I've all those installed
<Laney> how are you running it?
<Laney> I dunno why you'd get an error but not me
<seb128> $ sudo ./build-ubuntu-iso
<seb128> but l65 is
<seb128> $SUDO PROJECT=$PROJECT ARCH=$ARCH lb build
<seb128> I fail to see a command there?
<seb128> ignore that
<seb128> works without sudo
<Laney> interesting
<seb128> hum
<seb128> "chroot: failed to run command '/usr/bin/env': No such file or directory
<seb128> "
<Laney> I got that once, think it went away when I started again from a clean directory
<seb128> k
 * seb128 tries that
<seb128> Laney, bah, "build/chroot/test-dev-null: Permission denied"
<seb128> I keep hitting that
<seb128> and it bails out with
<seb128> "chroot: failed to run command '/usr/bin/env': No such file or directory"
<seb128> displayed
<Laney> wtf
<Laney> I never saw that one
<seb128> do you run it under sudo ?
<Laney> not directly
<seb128> or let the wrapper do the sudo ?
<seb128> let me try that
<Laney> I just ./file
<didrocks> no cookie for mterry! backup are failing again
<mterry> didrocks, uh oh
<didrocks> mterry: actually, I wonder if it's not rather the check (which isn't done after each backup) fails?
<mterry> didrocks, very possible
<didrocks> mterry: telling me I have no ~/.cache/deja-dup/metadata file in my backupâ¦ Which is true, I don't have any in my ~
<didrocks> mterry: I ignore ~/.cache, but I guess that's fine? (maybe the default?)
<mterry> didrocks, so that is a canary-in-the-goldmine file
<mterry> didrocks, deja-dup inserts that into every backup
<mterry> didrocks, and when verifying, tries to recover that file
<mterry> didrocks, looks like it had a problem
<didrocks> :(
<mterry> didrocks, and yeah, DD ignores ~/.cache by default
<didrocks> ok, it wasn't me adding that up
<mterry> didrocks, is that all the info it gives?  Ideally we'd tell you the error that happened
<didrocks> so, it's really that the backup is failing maybe
<mterry> didrocks, well.  Backup is apparently completing fine.  But looks like your files may not be as recoverable as we think
<didrocks> mterry: if I translate the GUI error in english, it's roughly "can't restore "/home/didrocks/.cache/deja-dup/metadata": the file isn't in the backup"
<mterry> didrocks, that should be nicer  :-/
<didrocks> mterry: I grepped your code for any "I hate didrocks" or anythingâ¦ but it seems you obfuscated it :p
<didrocks> mterry: any log files I can look at?
<mterry> didrocks, no, but you could run DD like "DEJA_DUP_DEBUG=1 deja-dup --backup" and get all sorts of logging
<didrocks> mterry: ok, doing
<mterry> didrocks, thanks!
<didrocks> mterry: thanks to you! hoping I'll get enough debug infos :)
<didrocks> info*
 * didrocks even runs with LANG=C
<didrocks> "all sorts of loggin" -> it's quite accurate :p
<Laney> ok cool it booted into unity8
<Laney> not that it works in any way well in a vm
<Laney> oh that's a bit better
<seb128> it should work in a vm
<seb128> well llvmpipe, it might be slow and stuff
<Laney> http://ubuntuone.com/3xvHfv1njOAPBcFCIQpRF1
<seb128> or do you mean unity8 on Mir?
<Laney> I had to change the driver
<Laney> nah, this is x11
<seb128> k
<seb128> makes sense
<seb128> I'm not sure you can use Mir in a vm
<Laney> I didn't dare try that first
 * Laney updates the online script copy
<Laney> oh let me fix the sudo thing first
<seb128> did you figure out what is wrong?
<seb128> the variable is empty
<seb128> that should be like it was not there?
<Laney> it's just some shell scripting problem
<Laney> but no, not yet
<seb128> k
<seb128> well if you figure it out, let me know
<seb128> I'm curious to know what's wrong
<seb128> I tried to figure it out, but that just escape my shell knowledge
<Laney> yeah I would have expected that to work
<seb128> Laney, ok, good news is that after starting fresh (wget the script again, new directory) I don't get the env error anymore, not sure what changed though
<didrocks> mterry: it didn't complain (apart from some files it couldnt' back up)
<Laney> It seems to be a bit picky if something goes wrong in a run
<Laney> like clean doesn't clean back to a working state then
<seb128> yeah
<didrocks> mterry: does it try everytime to do this restore "metadata" file?
<mterry> didrocks, yeah, if memory serves
<didrocks> mterry: weird thenâ¦ so I can at least reproduce the flakyness of sometimes it's backing up successfully, sometimes notâ¦
<mterry> hrm
<Laney> seb128: bah I don't know, I can't find an answer so I'll work around by using 'env' in the empty case
<seb128> Laney, maybe try asking on #ubuntu-devel, we have some shell script gurus in there
<Laney> I asked on the twittersphere
<seb128> has twitter proved efficient for those sort of things? ;-)
<Laney> some nerds follow me :P
<seb128> hehe
<Laney> ok there's a new version which adds the ppa
<Laney> and changes the flavour, so you'll need the new livecd-rootfs, coming in 5 minutes
<seb128> ok
<Laney> there
<Laney> remember you need that on the host
<seb128> right
<seb128> Sweetshark, not sure if you saw, but https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/1219245 is ranked high on e.u.c for trusty (nÂ°6 on the daily report)
<seb128> (what happened to the bot?)
<xnox> seb128: annual leave =)
<Laney> french bot
<didrocks> roh
<seb128> heh, friday trolling!
<Laney> ;)
<mvo_> seb128: if the control center complains that it can not find a plugin for provider ubuntuone, am I misisng a package? or is utopic broken currently?
<seb128> mvo_, that never worked, use the ubuntuone-control-panel-qt on desktop
<seb128> mvo_, that's bug #1287640
<seb128> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center-signon/+bug/1287640
<mvo_> seb128: thanks
<seb128> yw
<seb128> mvo_, if that's for the touch stack, you can also use ubuntu-system-settings-online-accounts to configure it
<mvo_> seb128: hm, u1-control-panel-qt is not available in utopic
<mvo_> seb128: I'm on unity8 desktop
<seb128> mvo_, install ubuntu-system-settings-online-accounts
<seb128> use settings -> accounts
<mvo_> seb128: hm, now I have a focus proble
<kenvandine> seb128, can you please NEW the i386 binary for libphonenumber?
 * kenvandine is glad to have that one behind him
<seb128> kenvandine, looking
<andyrock> seb128, hey
<andyrock> seb128, how can we do that? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1281058/comments/21
<andyrock> just the first point
 * xnox ponders what is the Chinese word for "scopes" =)
<seb128> andyrock, I can do it for you if you give me a branch
<seb128> andyrock, it's basically "build an updated pot, upload it through https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/trusty/+source/unity/+pots/unity/+upload"
<ogra_> xnox, oh, did you get spam as well ?
 * ogra_ noticed that too
<andyrock> seb128, https://code.launchpad.net/~andyrock/unity/lp-1281058/+merge/215331
<xnox> ogra_: yeah, didn't see travel approval code in that mail however =)
<ogra_> lol
<Laney> heh
<Laney> "15.30 am"
<ogra_> thats early :P
<seb128> andyrock, is that design approved, the strings are not going to change?
<andyrock> JohnLea, around?
<andyrock> seb128, let's ask to John
<rsalveti> seb128: need to upload http://paste.ubuntu.com/7422235/, how do you want me to proceed?
<rsalveti> seb128: doing a silo and such?
<seb128> rsalveti, doesn't seem necessary, feel free to upload/commit directly to trunk
<seb128> rsalveti, thanks for checking first btw ;-)
<rsalveti> seb128: sure, np, thanks
<andyrock> seb128, i sent an email to john
<andyrock> let's wait for the answer
<seb128> andyrock, k
<Laney> happy weekend everyone!
<seb128> Laney, thanks, you too!
 * Laney hugs jasoncwarner 
<Laney> best of luck!
<jasoncwarner> thanks Laney :) same back!
<mvo_> jasoncwarner: hey, best of luck and happy weekend
 * mvo_ waves and vanishes
<kenvandine> jasoncwarner, oh my... clock is ticking on your last day!
<jasoncwarner> Thanks mvo! And kenvandine  yeah. But I'll still hangout here so I can pester people with my pet bugs ;)
<kenvandine> hehe
<kenvandine> jasoncwarner, can't believe your leaving, we'll miss you
<kenvandine> and the steak!
<jasoncwarner> kenvandine: mostly the steak ;) but yeah, same goes here!!!
<kenvandine> nah... the steak was just a perk
<kenvandine> :)
<jasoncwarner> kenvandine:  :)
<kenvandine> but i'll be sure to tell bfiller the bar you set, he'll have to try to live up to the steak houses :)
<kenvandine> jasoncwarner, did i tell you went went to that greek place in orlando in feb?  there was some table dancing :)
<jasoncwarner> kenvandine: no! Who was it this time ?
<kenvandine> all the teams that went on the sprint
<kenvandine> i think about 40 of us...
<kenvandine> and i'm pretty sure everyone ended up on the table at some point :)
<jasoncwarner> Nice
<kenvandine> fun place, great place to get to know a new manager :)
<jasoncwarner> kenvandine: new person better get that in interview process ;)
<jasoncwarner> Good social question for them ;)
<Sweetshark> jasoncwarner: so where is the pet bug vs. steak exchange rate right now?
<dobey> hah
<dobey> i don't think i ever actually went to Opa! in orlando
<kenvandine> dobey, fun place
<dobey> yeah, i saw
<dobey> i liked Cuba Libre much more though ;)
<dobey> but hard to compete with a menu of like 100 different rums
<kenvandine> yum... rum
<kenvandine> dobey, which week are you going to be in malta?
<dobey> kenvandine: 2nd
<kenvandine> bummer... i haven't hung out with you in ages
<dobey> yeah
<dobey> kenvandine: when are you going to williamsburg? :P
<kenvandine> haha
<kenvandine> hopefully not until halloween :)
<kenvandine> to scare the kids again at busch gardens
<dobey> heh
<jasoncwarner> Sweetshark: for some bugs, I'd gladly exchange steak for fix-committed ;)
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-05-04
<pitti> Good morning
<larsu> good morning!
<pitti> hey larsu, wie gehts?
<larsu> argh, I was just happy that I was first :)
<larsu> pitti: hi! Good. Had a nice relaxing weekend at the MÃ¼ritz with great weather for biking and kayaking. You?
<pitti> larsu: we spent it mostly at home as it was raining all the time :/
<pitti> larsu: originally I planned to finally do that kite ride, but once again bad weather :(
<larsu> sorry to hear :(
<pitti> larsu: fourth time will be the charm! (next date: first June weekend)
<larsu> pitti: good luck!
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> bonjour didrocks !
<didrocks> hey pitti
<larsu> no name yet?
<pitti> larsu: not officially, no :/
<pitti> sabdfl promised to blog about it yesterday, but seems that still didn't happen
<pitti> no wobbly walrus yet :)
 * larsu is a sad warthog
<Guest51842> Hello. I am new to linux ubuntu and can not get my sound blaster z sound card to work. does anyone have any suggestions possibly? Thanks!
<didrocks> interesting, it seems that the visual studio code support brought a lot of new translators for ubuntu make
<didrocks> (like 3 new langages, 4 other translation refresh since my last translation snapshot less than a month ago)
<didrocks> (also, first release to be taken really widely in the press)
<seb128> didrocks, the microsoft coolness :-)
<didrocks> seems so :p
<duflu> pitti, larsu: Blog shows it will be announced today (http://www.markshuttleworth.com/)
<larsu> ah cool, thanks duflu
<larsu> seb128: do you know the answer to this? https://code.launchpad.net/~nikwen/indicator-messages/clear-all-unescape-fix/+merge/257471/comments/643548
<seb128> larsu, not really, but I guess we can SRU the fix and then it's up to the rtm/landing teams to include that or not
<larsu> seb128: ok. just asking if you think it makes sense in general. I'll comment that we need an SRU-bug
<seb128> larsu, yeah, makes sense to SRU imho
<seb128> larsu, btw did you get anywhere with the location/soup/gvfs/geoclue issue?
<larsu> seb128: not yet but thanks for reminding me :)
<seb128> larsu, yw!
<Sweet5hark> ricotz: fwiw 4.4.3~rc2 uploaded, building -- but untested ...
<ricotz> Sweet5hark, thanks, will grab it asap
<ogra_> Sweet5hark, libreOffice-KitKat ?
<Sweet5hark> ogra_: we have libreofficekit. https://github.com/LibreOffice/core/tree/master/libreofficekit
<ogra_> heh
<Sweet5hark> ogra_:  I hear Kats are available on the internetz. add them for instant kitkat
<ogra_> lol
<seb128> desrt, larsu, did you register a blueprint/session for the gsettings security work for UOS?
<larsu> seb128: was just looking myself if there's one. I thought jdstrand was going to do it :/
<seb128> did he say he would?
<seb128> I assumed we would do that
<larsu> I offered that we talk at uos and I said yes
<larsu> so that's what I assumed
<Sweet5hark> couldnt help myself when hearing about the wilywerewolf: https://twitter.com/Sweet5hark/status/595246983226511360
<seb128> larsu, desrt, do you prefer to re-use https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/security-r-app-gsettings or have a new one?
 * jdstrand is not leading that discussion
<larsu> seb128: reuse is fine by me. I don't know enough about this topic yet anyway, which is why I this session
<jdstrand> since we aren't implementing it
<jdstrand> so I didn't register it. I'm ahppy to attend the session
<seb128> jdstrand, right
<seb128> thanks
<larsu> jdstrand: you know what needs to be done though right?
<jdstrand> larsu: honestly, I don't know why we are going the gsettings route since it seems more complex of an implementation to solve what is precisely required. the previous conversation seemed that was the implementation that was desired
<jdstrand> and I'm not dictating implementation
<jdstrand> all I care about is that the settings are stored somewhere that doesn't constitute a privacy leak
<larsu> jdstrand: what precisely is required? GSettings exists exactly for the needs we have on desktop
<jdstrand> you asked if I know what needs to be done. I know what needs to be done security wise. I don't know all the reasons why gsettings was chosen or the internal implementation details for what is planned
<jdstrand> all that is required is a place for a few things for apps to query-- locale, vibrate, grid units, etc
<seb128> jdstrand, larsu, the current need is to store/access some easy settings, we could do something easier for those special cases but that wouldn't be futur/convergence proof
<jdstrand> gsettings obviously can do that, but making gsettings work with application isolation is harder than a separate service. I'll let others decide
<seb128> jdstrand, we are going to need to isolate gsettings for the desktop usecase in the futur anyway, so better to tackle that issue rather than reinvent a solution for the easy case and then having 2 things for the some purpose
<seb128> mhall119, hey, how do we get https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/security-r-app-gsettings accepted for uos and scheduled?
<mhall119> security-r- ? how old is this
<jdstrand> it is old
<larsu> mhall119: very
<mhall119> man oh man...
<mhall119> seb128: rename it to core-1505- or convergence-1505- and I'll accept it to the sprint
<jdstrand> we knew it would be a lot of work and app isolation on the phone didn't need it
<jdstrand> (until recently)
<mhall119> seb128: also, can you send me whatever you have on the desktop widgets work so I can prepare for that session?
<seb128> mhall119, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/convergence-1505-gsettings-confinement
<mhall119> seb128: accepted, give it an hour or so and it'll be imported into summit where I can schedule it
<seb128> mhall119, thanks
 * mhall119 will have to find an open slot
<seb128> mhall119, desktop widgets ... we don't have a lot, we didn't really start on it, design did some work though, maybe JohnLea can point you to some online version of that?
<mhall119> I'll poke him, thanks
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> mhall119, scheduling ... maybe you can borrow the community or core 15utc slot on thursday
<mhall119> seb128: core probably, yes
<larsu> jdstrand: I totally don't understand how a separate service is supposed to be easier to write than a service that exposes gsettings to an app... But these misunderstandings are why we wanted to talk in the first place, right?
<jdstrand> larsu: have I mentioned I'm not dictating implementation? :)
<seb128> larsu, a new service with no feature than letting you read/write some specific keys would probably be easier to write that the gsettings confinement one
<seb128> but no point discussing that
<seb128> that's not a solution, that would be a workaround to the current phone problem which only needs some specific keys
<seb128> let's focus on discussing the proper solution and work on that
<larsu> jdstrand: you did, but you also talked down our solution. I wouldn't have mentioned it otherwise
<larsu> seb128: maybe, but the concept desrt wrote is really small already
<larsu> seb128: in any case, we'll need it at some point so might as well do it now
<seb128> larsu, +1
<seb128> larsu, the issue was not small or not, just it's probably would have been harder to write for somebody who doesn't know gsettings as well
<larsu> seb128: that's why desrt is doing it ;)
<seb128> right
<seb128> so let's focus on that
<larsu> ok, let's all focus on desrt!
<seb128> the suggestion from doing something easier was coming from other teams who don't have the knowledge to easily do the proper solution
<seb128> and wanted something they can use
<larsu> ah, got it
<jdstrand> larsu: I didn't talk it down-- I said I didn't understand the reasons behind it
<larsu> jdstrand: fair enough
<desrt> seb128: i asked will about a session but he was unable to find space
<desrt> but he was going to look into it again, iirc
<seb128> desrt, ok, seems like mhall119 can put one on the core track
<seb128> desrt, do you have any estimate also about when we should be able to land a first version of the service?
<desrt> end of the month if i'm not distracted
<seb128> thanks
 * desrt is trying not to be distracted :)
<desrt> fwiw, read works, more or less
<desrt> write is TODO
<desrt> is-writable is a big scary TODO
<desrt> but maybe we can survive without that at first
<desrt> (ie: dealing with sysadmin lockdown of settings in a way that the app knows which settings its allowed to change, in order to grey out the appropriate widgets in the dialogs, etc.)
<attente> oh, could this be useful? https://code.launchpad.net/~attente/ubuntu-system-settings/session-settings-service
<xclaesse> seb128, GtkFileChooser in vivid doesn't sort folders on top anymore
<xclaesse> seb128, on fedora there is an option for that on the right-click context menu
<xclaesse> dunno if that's upstream in gtk 3.16 or if it's fedora specific patch
<seb128> xclaesse, dunno either
<xclaesse> would make sense to have it in ubuntu
<seb128> attente, useful for desrt or as a solution until the gsettings work is done?
<attente> seb128: this is the settings stuff that we were talking about last year? or is desrt working on something different?
<seb128> attente, desrt is working on making access to gsettings key restricted/having confinement
<seb128> attente, e.g let gedit reads only its keys and some system ones
<seb128> rather than having access to the whole database
<attente> ah, ok. that branch won't be useful then
<seb128> hum
<seb128> bah, I missed didrocks it seems ;-)
<desrt> attente: this is interesting in fact
<desrt> we may be able to provide some of the same functionality via the new service
<desrt> in the same way that we provide the xsettings-type stuff
<attente> desrt: how do you mean?
<attente> desrt: like u-s-d xsettings plugin?
<mhall119> seb128: 1500 utc on core is taken, can you do 1800?
<seb128> desrt, larsu, ^ would thursday 18utc work for that session?
<xclaesse> seb128, it's upstream with commit 2aa3eea781ed21a02ecdf1e3c753a1ec5694d6c8
<xclaesse> seb128, could be backported to 3.14 for ubuntu ?
<seb128> xclaesse, it's a new string, it's a bit annoying to backport since it wouldn't have translations
<xclaesse> seb128, or the default could be changed with no option?
<seb128> xclaesse, changing the default would make sense to me
<xclaesse> that's how it was before 3.14
<seb128> Laney, larsu: ^ wdyt? (having gtk "sort folders first" default to on)
<seb128> right
<seb128> at least for vivid, until we get a GTK version that provides an UI for setting that back
<desrt> seb128: thursday is fine for me
<seb128> desrt, 18utc as well?
<desrt> i'm here all day :)
<seb128> k
<seb128> mhall119, seems it should work for us
<seb128> mhall119, thanks
<seb128> mhall119, or can't you give us the 3pm community slot? I've a feeling that the 6pm app cycle management session is going to conflict some people
<seb128> or maybe not, not sure if security teams want to go to that one
<jdstrand> we can send people to different meetings
<jdstrand> (though, please avoid a snappy conflict)
<seb128> k
<larsu> seb128: thu at 8pm works for me. I agree, sort folders has to default to 'on'
<seb128> larsu, thanks
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-05-05
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> good morning
<larsu> bonjour!
<didrocks> hey larsu
<larsu> hi didrocks! How are you?
<didrocks> I'm good, thanks, yourself?
 * larsu searches for that gsettings session seb128 wanted to schedule
<larsu> didrocks: great :)
 * larsu has tea
<willcooke> morning
<didrocks> hey willcooke! optical experiments over?
<willcooke> he!
<willcooke> yeah
<willcooke> Took me all day Sunday to recover
<didrocks> :)
<larsu> morning willcooke
<willcooke> Argh
<willcooke> Just realised
<willcooke> UOS means I'll be here until 9 tonight
<willcooke> hmm
<willcooke> I might carry on now and take Friday off
<willcooke> Do you guys want to do the weekly meeting today?  I will /probably/ be in sessions
<willcooke> seb128,  ^
<didrocks> first kernel uploaded to wily, time to push the track! :)
<didrocks> crack*
 * larsu waits for Laney to do that :D
<seb128> hey willcooke
<seb128> willcooke, I'm probably going to be in sessions as well
<seb128> so unsure
<seb128> I guess most of the team is not going to be, so if we find somebody who wants to lead we can probably have the meeting
<larsu> seb128: we could have a quick one? Without pasting notes, just "is there anything of importance to talk ab
<larsu> out"
 * larsu wonders if that would be helpful though
<seb128> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1505/2015-05-05/
<seb128> there is a snappy desktop session at the meeting time
<larsu> so that's our meeting!
<seb128> willcooke, what about doing the meeting at 2utc with those who are here/get the change?
<seb128> or do we want to listen to the plenary?
<seb128> we can probably do 2:30pm and keep it to half an hour
<willcooke> oki, let's do 1430 UTC and keep it short...
<willcooke> I'll email
<seb128> thanks
<Laney> hullo
<larsu> guten Tag Laney!
<Laney> good day to you sir
<didrocks> morning Laney
<Laney> hello didrocks!
<Laney> how are you all?
<Laney> it's been four days of pain that we have been apart
<larsu> painful
 * Laney ws the w
<Laney> NO, must patch pilot before looking at anything and getting distracted
<seb128> hey Laney, wie gehts?
<Laney> hey seb128, doing good thanks!
<Laney> family at the weekend, climbing yesterday, all good fun
<Laney> you?
<seb128> nice w.e as well, bbq with friends, spa, relaxing, and played tennis after work yesterday
<seb128> ready for UOS and w opening this week!
<Laney> thanks willcooke!
<willcooke> Laney, np
 * Laney sends out the bat signal
<davmor2> Laney: is now swamped in bats
 * Laney hangs davmor2 upside down from the church rafters
<Laney> one of ussss
<davmor2> Laney: how do you know my back stretch routine?
 * Laney has root
 * Laney is going to merge the oldest sponsoring request
<Laney> muhahaha
<seb128> Laney, which one was that?
<Laney> oneconf
<Laney> 2013-12-10
<seb128> nice
 * didrocks hopes that Laney will test if it still works, I heared it didn't since the python3 switch
<Laney> that's why it has taken me 45 minutes to review one thing :)
<Laney> I got my laptop to show up!
<didrocks> nice :p
<Laney> does it communicate via the server?
<Laney> no avahi or anything right
<didrocks> yeah, it's using apps.ubuntu.com
 * Laney nods
<Laney> bzr push :parent #take that!
<Laney> tjaalton: hiya, do you think you could maybe self verify bug #1447143? there's another fix in the queue that could probably go in after this one
<ubot5> bug 1447143 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu Vivid) "[SKL, i915_bpo] Rotation doesn't work" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1447143
<tjaalton> Laney: oh right
<tjaalton> yeah it needs skl hw so I'd better :)
<tjaalton> the kernel bits are missing still though, but I'll verify with what I've built
<Laney> whatever that is :P
<tjaalton> skylake
<Laney> ah
<Laney> oh wait, I meant to poke you about the utopic sru
 * Laney clicked the wrong link
<tjaalton> this was fine too
<Laney> bug #1444436
<ubot5> bug 1444436 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu Utopic) "[BDW GT3] Backport fixes to unbreak X" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1444436
<tjaalton> yep
<Laney> please to fiddle the tags then :)
<Sweet5hark> hmmm, someone said at the london sprint that clicking mail merge was a noop in libreoffice if libreoffice-base wasnt installed ... anyone remembering that? because I cant reproduce here ...
<Laney> me
<Laney> it's after you get to selecting the document containing the addresses (or whatever)
<Laney> 3-4 stages into the wizard iirc
<Laney> biab
<Sweet5hark> Laney: ah, ok -- will recheck ..l
<willcooke> hrm
<willcooke> I think I might have got the time wrong for the meeting today
<willcooke> we should do it now right?
<willcooke> before the plenary?
<willcooke> seb128, ^
<seb128> willcooke, I was assuming that the time was correct and that we would do it during the second half of the plenary slot, not sure if the plenary is going to be a full hour and how useful it is
<willcooke> oki, let's do it in 1 hr then
<willcooke> I will be listening to the plenary I hink
<willcooke> *think
<willcooke> but I can do both :)
<willcooke> seb128, http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1505/meeting/22513/convergence-1505-gsettings-confinement/
<willcooke> it had to go in the community room because we are full in Convergence
<willcooke> desrt, ^^
<seb128> oh, it's today?!
<willcooke> I can move it
<willcooke> if you want
<seb128> desrt, larsu ^
<willcooke> I could ask to borrow "Cloud 2" tomorrow at 1400 UTC
<willcooke> or 1900 UTC
<willcooke> tomorrow
<willcooke> or 1400 or 1500 Thursday
<willcooke> other than that - we are full up
<willcooke> we = UOS sessions in all
 * Laney screams
 * Laney had the plenary youtube video open in a background tab
<larsu> seb128: I already have plans for tonight. Let me check if I can move them
<seb128> larsu, don't worry, willcooke said he can move
<seb128> larsu, like tomorrow 2pm utc or 7p,
<willcooke> larsu, please let me know asap the other available slots are up there ^^
<larsu> willcooke: I prefer tomorrow
<seb128> thursday 2pm and 3pm seem free as well
<larsu> (any time)
<larsu> thursday works as well
 * willcooke checks
<larsu> thanks
 * larsu thought it was going to be Thu night, but I guess everything always changes at uos
<seb128> larsu, mhall119 said he would put it there but he didn't and the slot got claimed it seems
<mhall119> seb128: the gsettings one?
<seb128> mhall119, yes
<mhall119> it's at 1900 today
<seb128> mhall119, right, and that doesn't work for us
<mhall119> I thought I scheduled it when you asked for it, maybe another lead moved it
<mhall119> seb128: when would work for you?
<seb128> mhall119, I though we said thursday 7pm
<seb128> mhall119, willcooke is moving it to tomorrow or thursday
<mhall119> yeah, that's when I originally scheduled it I thought
<mhall119> ok
<larsu> is that 7 utc or cet?
<willcooke> mhall119, timezones on summit look a bit broken
<willcooke> or maybe its just me
<mhall119> willcooke: there aren't timezones, everything is UTC
<seb128> larsu, utc
<seb128> larsu, better to do 2 or 3 utc
<larsu> seb128: yes
<desrt> uh
<mdeslaur> seb128, mhall119, willcooke: would be better tomorrow, I won't be able to attend on thurs
<desrt> what?
<seb128> desrt, would tomorrow 2pm utc work for you for the settings session?
<desrt> 14 UTC = 10 for me
<desrt> sure
<desrt> as long as it doesn't get moved again :)
<seb128> willcooke, ^ can we get that?
<willcooke> seb128, that clashes with "U8 as default desktop" - but I think that's more the U8 guys than ius
<willcooke> us
<seb128> willcooke, I'm probably going to go to the U8 default desktop but I don't think I would be much useful to the gsettings one
<willcooke> ok, mdeslaur seb128 desrt larsu mhall119  - scheduled for 1400 UTC tomorrow in the "Cloud 2"  room
<seb128> as long as mdeslaur larsu and desrt can be at the settings one we are good
<willcooke> cool
<larsu> thanks!
<mdeslaur> great, thanks
<mhall119> thanks willcooke
<desrt> thanks
<desrt> and sorry for missing it today
<willcooke> nw
<seb128> willcooke, having the short meeting now?
 * Sweet5hark sneaks in
 * didrocks same
<tkamppeter> hi
 * Sweet5hark starts shuffling a deck of cards under the table and distributes a hand to didrocks and tkamppeter. like in the old days at school.
 * didrocks takes his hp49 calculator and starts a game
<willcooke> seb128, argh
<willcooke> oki, let's do it
<willcooke> #startmeeting Desktop Team Meeting 2015-05-05
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue May  5 14:34:58 2015 UTC.  The chair is willcooke. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Test gtk 3.16 from ppa:ubuntu-desktop/ww & file bugs with the tag "gtk316" | Desktop Team Meeting 2015-05-05 | Current topic:
<willcooke> attente, desrt, didrocks, FJKong, happyaron, Laney, larsu, qengho, seb128, Sweet5hark, tkamppeter, Sweet5hark
<qengho> yo
<willcooke> anyone else I forgot ^^
<willcooke> ok, gotta be quick...
<willcooke> #topic attente
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Test gtk 3.16 from ppa:ubuntu-desktop/ww & file bugs with the tag "gtk316" | Desktop Team Meeting 2015-05-05 | Current topic: attente
<willcooke> GO!
<attente> packaged input method framework switcher and uploaded to a ppa, but it won't be as useful for us now that the plan seems to be to replace maliit with fcitx and add osk support there instead
<attente> fixed gdk mir build from master due to mir api break
<attente> debugging the qt5 port of fcitx-qimpanel; problem lies somewhere between qt5 and libdbusmenu-qt
<willcooke> attente, eof?
<attente> right, yes :)
<willcooke> :)
<willcooke> thanks attente
<willcooke> #topic desrt
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Test gtk 3.16 from ppa:ubuntu-desktop/ww & file bugs with the tag "gtk316" | Desktop Team Meeting 2015-05-05 | Current topic: desrt
<desrt> got the reader-side of the gsettings proxy service working.  need to work on the writer side and getting the client packaged up as a proper gsettings backend.  need to figure out how to get a list of which keys an app is allowed to read/write -- have UDS session on that tomorrow
<desrt> will continue work during this week
<desrt> eof
<willcooke> #topic didrocks
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Test gtk 3.16 from ppa:ubuntu-desktop/ww & file bugs with the tag "gtk316" | Desktop Team Meeting 2015-05-05 | Current topic: didrocks
<didrocks> short week (Friday was a bank holiday)
<didrocks> ubuntu make:
<didrocks>  - release ubuntu make 0.7 with visual studio code support
<didrocks>  - enable removing deprecated frameworks without letting user to reinstall them or listing them once removed (dedicated to popey)
<didrocks>  - add non interactive installation mode
<didrocks>  - add more tests for the new use case. However, the i386 VM is broken in the CI system since yesterday. CI Team is looking at it now.
<didrocks>  - bugs triaging
<didrocks> eof
<willcooke> #topic FJKong
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Test gtk 3.16 from ppa:ubuntu-desktop/ww & file bugs with the tag "gtk316" | Desktop Team Meeting 2015-05-05 | Current topic: FJKong
<willcooke> timeout in 1m
<popey> \o/
<desrt> tsk tsk tsk
<willcooke> #topic happyaron
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Test gtk 3.16 from ppa:ubuntu-desktop/ww & file bugs with the tag "gtk316" | Desktop Team Meeting 2015-05-05 | Current topic: happyaron
<willcooke> timeout in 1m
<happyaron> hey
<happyaron> I've just back from holidays, and reading emails & backlogs
<willcooke> thx happyaron
<happyaron> wonders if we can switch fcitx to default early in this cycle?
<desrt> happyaron: we need to talk.....
<seb128> default for what langages?
<willcooke> lets pick that up after the meeting
<happyaron>  /eol
<willcooke> #topic laney
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Test gtk 3.16 from ppa:ubuntu-desktop/ww & file bugs with the tag "gtk316" | Desktop Team Meeting 2015-05-05 | Current topic: laney
<happyaron> seb128: for all languages
 * happyaron let's talk about it after meeting
<seb128> happyaron, did we decide to do that? but yeah, out of meeting topic
<FJKong> willcooke: my turn?
<willcooke> FJKong, laney is up, let's give him a moment and then we'll come bacl
<willcooke> back
<Laney> aah
 * desrt watches Laney strugle with gucharmap
<Laney> actually http://unicode-table.com/en/sets/social-symbols/
<Laney> PHEW
<Laney> HERE GOES:
<Laney> â¢ short week due to May bank holiday
<Laney> â¢ Worked some more on preparing gtk, o-s & some others for W opening, sitting in ppa:ubuntu-desktop/ww ~ready to go
<Laney> â¢ Filed some initial bugs tag 'gtk316' and assigned them, still some more to go
<Laney> â¢ Patch piloted (uploaded the longest standing item in the queue, woo)
<Laney> â¢ SRUs
<Laney> â gtk: column resizing (T & U), 3.14.13 (V)
<Laney> â gnome-session: Start compiz from upstart, fixes unity --replace
<Laney> â empathy/account-plugins: Kill off FB and MSN messengers, no longer supported by their providers
<Laney> â totem: Don't play videos twice if you start them from the commandline
<Laney> â
<willcooke> #topic FJKong
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Test gtk 3.16 from ppa:ubuntu-desktop/ww & file bugs with the tag "gtk316" | Desktop Team Meeting 2015-05-05 | Current topic: FJKong
<FJKong> not much to update due to the Holiday of Labors Day
<FJKong> finish Dash pinyin search and preview in Unity.
<FJKong> need more test and work on it
<FJKong> that's all
<willcooke> #topic larsu
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Test gtk 3.16 from ppa:ubuntu-desktop/ww & file bugs with the tag "gtk316" | Desktop Team Meeting 2015-05-05 | Current topic: larsu
<larsu> - short week due to May 1
<larsu> - reviewed and tested an indicator-messages MR and found a bug in the process
<larsu> - libsoup bug
<larsu> - investigated treeview column resizing problem for 14.04, backported patches and filed SRU
<larsu> - some bug triage (also upstream)
<larsu> - started testing gtk 3.16
<larsu> </larsu>
<willcooke> #topic qengho
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Test gtk 3.16 from ppa:ubuntu-desktop/ww & file bugs with the tag "gtk316" | Desktop Team Meeting 2015-05-05 | Current topic: qengho
<qengho> Sorry! Not ready.
<qengho> Dazzled by the video.
<willcooke> will come back
<willcooke> #topic seb128
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Test gtk 3.16 from ppa:ubuntu-desktop/ww & file bugs with the tag "gtk316" | Desktop Team Meeting 2015-05-05 | Current topic: seb128
<seb128> * 4 days week, friday was 1st of may
<seb128> * some preparation for UOS
<seb128> * worked on w-blueprints
<seb128> * quite some bugs triage/review of e.u.c top issues after vivid
<seb128> * looked at SRUing some bugfixes
<seb128> * u-s-s reviews
<seb128> </week>
<willcooke> #topic Sweet5hark
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Test gtk 3.16 from ppa:ubuntu-desktop/ww & file bugs with the tag "gtk316" | Desktop Team Meeting 2015-05-05 | Current topic: Sweet5hark
<Sweet5hark> - day off due to may day holiday (which is needed in Hamburg and Berlin to defend your home in the riots)
<Sweet5hark> - prepared a 4.4.3~rc2 build for vivid/ppa
<Sweet5hark> - tried updating breeze from bug 1448508 SRU -> unfortunately the breeze snapshot seems to be broken
<Sweet5hark> - looked into the top crasher on errors.ubuntu.com
<Sweet5hark>   - identified offending commit
<Sweet5hark>   - lifecycle issue on shutdown
<Sweet5hark>   - unfortunately the commit causing the regression also fixed a lifecycle issue crash (simplified version)
<ubot5> bug 1448508 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "SRU libreoffice breeze icons" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1448508
<Sweet5hark>   - not quite sure yet if this can be reverted without making things worse
<Sweet5hark>   -> ongoing
<Sweet5hark> - caught up with missed out upstream mail and developments after sprint
<Sweet5hark> - some more work on another lifecycle issue upstream
<Sweet5hark>   - ended up in a maze of corridors all looking the same
<Sweet5hark>   -> punted
<Sweet5hark> - looked into Laneys 'mail merge is trolling me, when libreoffice-base is not installed' issue
<Sweet5hark> eh, got throttled ...
<desrt> last: 10:46 < Sweet5hark> - looked into Laneys 'mail merge is trolling me, when libreoffice-base is not installed' issue
<willcooke> Sweet5hark, eof?
<Sweet5hark>   - can reproduce now, should be reasonably easy to fix
<Sweet5hark>   -> ongoing
<Sweet5hark> EOF
<willcooke> #topic tkamppeter
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Test gtk 3.16 from ppa:ubuntu-desktop/ww & file bugs with the tag "gtk316" | Desktop Team Meeting 2015-05-05 | Current topic: tkamppeter
<willcooke> 1m timeout
<Laney> Sweet5hark: I should tell you about my other issues :)
<Sweet5hark> Laney: not your personal army
<Laney> the worst one was that all lists lost their formatting so I had to manually type them
 * Laney giggles and runs off
<willcooke> #topic qengho
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Test gtk 3.16 from ppa:ubuntu-desktop/ww & file bugs with the tag "gtk316" | Desktop Team Meeting 2015-05-05 | Current topic: qengho
<qengho> * Done: tested Cr 42.0.2311.135, including a new Flash update test and warning.
<qengho> * To-do: Re-sync Ozone/Mir patches after v42 breakage. Start hacking mir in again.
<qengho> EOF
<qengho> Will get v42 Cr in today, including wily
<willcooke> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Test gtk 3.16 from ppa:ubuntu-desktop/ww & file bugs with the tag "gtk316"
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue May  5 14:50:24 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2015/ubuntu-desktop.2015-05-05-14.34.moin.txt
<willcooke> thanks all
<willcooke> maybe next week we'll be back to normal
<desrt> happyaron: so about fcitx...
<happyaron> desrt: huh?
<desrt> i think there is some bad communication here
<seb128> thanks
<Laney> thanks!
<desrt> last i heard is that we won't even have sogou at all
<seb128> desrt, speaking about phone or desktop?
<desrt> both
<happyaron> desrt: I meant desktop...
<Sweet5hark> thanks
<seb128> desrt, we have sogou for desktop afaik
<seb128> going to be in the partner or restricted archive
<happyaron> that's what Fanjun and I did for the last year, desktop version of Sogou
<desrt> on account of maliit not being an issue on desktop....
<desrt> even still -- what is the advantage of using fcitx for all languages always?
<happyaron> desrt: well, personally I don't see the necessary of maintaining two stacks of input method
<desrt> except that some users clearly prefer ibus
<desrt> (we could apply the same argument otherwise to "let's just use ibus for all languages")
<happyaron> fcitx is architecturely more advanced
<desrt> also: attente just finished the switching code and it's working quite well now
<happyaron> that's why Sogou has chosen fcitx
<attente> my main concern is who's going to end up doing the osk work for fcitx
<happyaron> we shouldn't stick on 2000s user experience since it's one and a half decade already, right?
 * happyaron I'm purely talking about desktop, not phone, so not relevant to osk atm
<didrocks> well, it clearly is
<desrt> happyaron: well, then we still need to maintain two stacks anyway, then...
<happyaron> if we whant to have Sogou, we must do the OSK work
<didrocks> we are aiming for convergence, remember?
<desrt> happyaron: i don't think maliit is going anywhere....
<happyaron> * want
<desrt> (i mean... i don't think it's going away)
<happyaron> desrt: then let's wait for sogou plan
<happyaron> in real world commercial cooperations, if we don't have Sogou on phone, we can hardly to work with Tencent.
<happyaron> this means our phone can't probably sale in China
<happyaron> but that's up to phone poeple to decide, and to work it out
 * happyaron sell
<didrocks> there is no "phone people", and this cycle, some people will work to have one image for phone and desktop, so we all have to work it out this cycle
<happyaron> I mean the business guys
<didrocks> let's just focus on the technical part, our part
<happyaron> I tend to switch to fcitx on desktop, and keep maliit on phone for the moment, and wait business guys to sort out the mess of cooperations
<happyaron> this means we'll support up to 2 frameworks (fcitx, maliit), not 3 (+ ibus)
<happyaron> what do you think?
<didrocks> happyaron: what are you going to do for the common image then?
<happyaron> didrocks: have both of the two, we can't use maliit on desktop anyway
<didrocks> and so, when we have the ubuntu phone booted, plugged to a screen + keyboard, what happens?
<happyaron> if the coming result is "desktop mode" like a full featured desktop, fcitx should run
<didrocks> but the session was already running
<attente> we can probably use the input method switcher for that, at least for now
<didrocks> with maliit I follow you
<happyaron> attente did the online switching stuff
<didrocks> so we need to install both
<happyaron> yes
<didrocks> and it will still be good to have some real user feedback for non chinese input method usage
<happyaron> mobile input methods doesn't work that well on desktop, actually, people use different engines on mobile /desktop, a less powerful one for mobile to save battery.
<attente> isn't that an argument against using fcitx for osk?
<happyaron> didrocks: what language do you mean then, Japanese or non-engine users?
<happyaron> attente: not it isn't
<happyaron> fcitx/maliit are just framework, treat it like system API/service
<happyaron> OSK is a standalone part
<happyaron> neither of these parts have the power thing to worry
<happyaron> but the computing library needs to be dealt with
<didrocks> happyaron: Japanese, Thaiâ¦
<attente> ok, it just seemed like we're taking fcitx which is a desktop one and using it for mobile
<didrocks> arabicâ¦
<happyaron> the only mobile-targeted pinyin engine in our archive is libgooglepinyin
<happyaron> using libpinyin will, waste power, and destroy SD cards
<cyphermox> hey all, it would be nice if someone from the desktop team wanted to join my installer session at 18:00 UTC; since eventually there might be a need to mix Snappy convergence on desktop with the installer.
<happyaron> didrocks: I can find real user for Japanese to comment, at least
<cyphermox> (just thinking aloud right now, of course)
<happyaron> attente: the advantage of using maliit, is that it has a OSK implementation that adresses some of the needs
<happyaron> but please treat the stuff as two parts, Part 1 is a framework, which is fcitx's role, Part 2 is the OSK, which is what all the benefits it have
<happyaron> we need a good framework, because OSKs and engines should be done by 3rd party, we just need a ok-to-go OSK/panel on mobile/desktop as os vendor.
<happyaron> guess this time I've made myself a bit clearer?
<attente> happyaron: yes, that makes sense
<cyphermox> Laney: willcooke: could you's be there later for the installer session?
<cyphermox> seb128 suggested I ping ;)
<ricotz> Sweet5hark, hi, I am going to copy the 4.4.3~rc2 builds when they are ready, ~vivid1  runs fine here afaics -- to avoid waiting for the breeze-update
<Sweet5hark> ricotz: hmm, k. do you copy the vivid1 to vivid too?
<Laney> cyphermox: I could maybe make the first half, but I'm not sure I'll be helpful
<Laney> what did you want to talk about?
<Sweet5hark> ricotz: because, as it turns out the breeze icons in vivid2 are b0rked ...
<ricotz> Sweet5hark, yes, all these https://launchpad.net/~ricotz/+archive/ubuntu/ppa/+packages?field.name_filter=libreoffice&field.status_filter=published&field.series_filter=
<cyphermox> installer in general, but since there's discussion right now about snappy desktop convergence magic
<cyphermox> Laney: I'm thinking somehow we'll need to install snappy on metal :)
<ricotz> Sweet5hark, yeah, I noticed that is why I mentioned to copy them ;)
<Sweet5hark> ricotz: great, sure go ahead! ;)
<ricotz> Sweet5hark, when trusty/amd64 is finished ;)
<Sweet5hark> ricotz: kk
<ricotz> Sweet5hark, as a note, please push 4.4.x updates to wily as long there is no 5.x package
<Laney> cyphermox: I'm pretty far from understanding what's wanted there
<cyphermox> ok
<Laney> Unless the outcome is going to be "what do we need to know?"
<Laney> In which case maybe I could be mildly helpful
 * Laney engages in expectations management
<Laney> cyphermox: I'll hang around on IRC and jump on the hangout if you need me
<seb128> Laney, thanks
<cyphermox> cool.
<cyphermox> I don't know what I need to know for snappy installs.
<Laney> then maybe "who do we need to talk to and about what?" would be an okay outcome
<willcooke> cyphermox, Laney - I can try and be in the session, but track lead duties are all consuming
<willcooke> cyphermox, I guess it boils down to:  We can live without a live session for now, but at least a CLI "installer" would be needed
<Laney> like: plug in USB stick, have some way of installing?
<cyphermox> Laney: kind of. :)
<willcooke> cyphermox, I have to host the convergence track HO, so I can't be in another one
<willcooke> cyphermox, what sort of thing do you need?
<cyphermox> willcooke: I think I have everything I need. I got the high-level summary from slangasek earlier
<cyphermox> so I guess I will mention it, but not spend much time on that aspect given that it seems more like a JDFI thing than anything else
<cyphermox> rearrange these letters how it makes sense :)
<willcooke> thx cyphermox
<willcooke> ping me if you need anything, I'll be around, but hosting a session
<cyphermox> ack. I'm not worried, I just wanted to make sure things didn't become surprises
<willcooke> :)
<willcooke> Sweet5hark, new under water vacuum cleaner eh? ;)
<Sweet5hark> willcooke: should have bought a scooba instead of a roomba in the first place.
<willcooke> LOL
<Sweet5hark> willcooke: although I shouldnt complain. the roomba really is an awesome device.
<willcooke> sooo tempted to get one
<willcooke> but $$$$$$$
<willcooke> oh
<willcooke> amazon says < 300 GBP
<willcooke> which is about 1/10th what I thought they cost
<attente> sil2100: hi, in appmenu-qt5, is there a reason createPlatformMenu() returns 0 for both the GnomeAppMenuPlatformTheme and KdeAppMenuPlatformTheme?
<sil2100> attente: in a meeting right now, would have to think about that for a moment to remember the reasons for that
<sil2100> attente: if you could remind me of that through e-mail I would probably be able to answer tomorrow, since it's anyway way past my normal OED
<sil2100> *EOD
<attente> sil2100: sure, thanks
<Sweet5hark> willcooke: get one. they are awesome. ... as long as they dont eat all your cables.
<mitya57> attente: that is to avoid the endless loop in QMenu constructor
<mitya57> QMenu constructs a QPlatformMenu internally (via createPlatformMenu()), which constructs a QMenu again, ...
<attente> mitya57: is there a way to avoid it and still provide a QPlatformMenu?
<attente> because returning 0 seems to be problematic for creating submenus in QSystemTrayIcon
<mitya57> attente: http://code.qt.io/cgit/qt/qtbase.git/commit/?id=03dc2b2e82750d1c531cf00a406368cde4a8928b
<mitya57> That will be in Qt 5.4.2
<attente> mitya57: oh! thanks!
<mitya57> You are welcome! We can also SRU it to Vivid if you want.
<attente> mitya57: does this require changes to appmenu-qt5 as well?
<mitya57> No
<attente> mitya57: so the indicator in vivid doesn't require the SRU because it moved its submenus into the top-level menu, and i'm unaware of others that might need it
<attente> so i guess we don't need to SRU to vivid
<attente> (this is fcitx-qimpanel/fcitx-ui-qimpanel)
<mitya57> Ok
<seb128> would that fix bug #1435348?
<ubot5> bug 1435348 in appmenu-qt5 (Ubuntu) "qtcreator recently used file/project submenu empty" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1435348
<mitya57> seb128: no, my fix is only for tray icons
<seb128> k
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-05-06
<pitti> Good morning
<thumper> o/ pitti
<TheMuso> Morning pitti. :)
<pitti> hey thumper, hey TheMuso, how are you?
<thumper> doin' good, busy like normal
<thumper> making juju more awesomer during the day, working on my startup at night
<thumper> sleeping less
<TheMuso> pitti: Very well thanks, yourself?
<pitti> thumper: uh, how long can you sustain that :)
<pitti> TheMuso: quite fine, thanks!
<thumper> pitti: been doing it hard for about a year, very patchy before that
<thumper> pitti: every one of my holidays in the last year and a bit has been working on the startup (except for last week - parent help at my daughter's year 8 school camp)
<thumper> pitti: it is hard... hoping it will be worthwhile one day
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> bonjour didrocks
<seb128> hey pitti & desktopers
<seb128> wie gehts?
 * seb128 upgrades to w
<pitti> c'est un seb128 ! salut !
<didrocks> hey pitti! (sorry, didn't see your ping)
<pitti> seb128: gut, danke! systemd debugging again :)
<pitti> seb128: just now? you are soooo late to the werewolf :)
<pitti> (it's just boring, nothing really changed yet..)
<seb128> pitti, yeah, first upgrade, then contribute to making the thing more exciting :-)
<seb128> pitti, desktop debugging or making the phone like systemd? ;-)
<pitti> but oh well, it was already some fun to untangle some uninstallability and test regressions this morning :)
<pitti> seb128: Laney's schroot-in-lxc woes, so desktop
<pitti> seb128: that's the last bug scheduled for the next SRU, then I can go back infecting^Wporting the phone
<seb128> great
<seb128> Sweet5hark, do you know why libreoffice is triggering alternative failure/fixed emails almost daily
<seb128> it's a bit annoying
<seb128> it's like "failed" and a few hours later you get "fixed"
<seb128> it keeps doing that
<pitti> that was part of my fixes this morning
<pitti> tzdata was uninstallable in wily
<seb128> oh, good
<pitti> so libreoffice, cantor, poxml, and chromium-browser failed
<pitti> now they are all happy again
<seb128> great
 * Sweet5hark has a look
<seb128> when I clicked on the public url yesterday it was an "empty" label page
<seb128> so I couldn't see the issue
<seb128> Sweet5hark, hey, seems like pitti already handled it :-)
<Sweet5hark> seb128: fwiw. looking at the last failure in vivid, its an 'unexpected EOF' on the source tarball ...
<Sweet5hark> seb128: so I would assume libreoffice being this big, it just is more sensible to flaky network connections and other temporary glitches in the matrix ...
<pitti> yes, that's my fault, bug 1384706
<ubot5> bug 1384706 in autopkgtest (Ubuntu) "tar: Unexpected EOF in archive in copyup()" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1384706
<pitti> it's ridiculously hard to reproduce and investigate, unfortunately :/
<Sweet5hark> pitti: http://vmiklos.hu/blog/so-many-bugs.html <- backside of t-shirt applies
<pitti> Sweet5hark: ^5s
<seb128> grrrr, firefox had some issues yesterday and nucked my password/login db it seems
<seb128> chrisccoulson, ^ is there a backup on disk somewhere that I can use for those cases?
<pitti> seb128: eek, no backup?
<seb128> pitti, backups but not from the full userdir and not from .mozilla...
<willcooke> o/
<didrocks> hey willcooke
<larsu> morning willcooke!
<seb128> hey willcooke
<willcooke> xmir is fixed!
<Laney> meow
<willcooke> happyaron, thanks for your email.  I will read it and digest today
<willcooke> happyaron, How was Scotland btw?
<FJKong>  /quit
<tkamppeter> willcooke, hi
<theo_> instellen slaapstand scherm
<didrocks> ok, all tests are finally passing again
 * didrocks goes for a run
<seb128> didrocks, enjoy!
<Laney> man
<Laney> what is this u-s-d media-keys race
<didrocks> Laney: around for at least a cycle
<Laney> I didn't say it was new
<Laney> irritating though
<didrocks> yeah, didn't get any useful debug IIRC
<didrocks> and didn't reproduce when running u-s-d in debug mode
<didrocks> I guess a typical heisenbug
<didrocks> you add debug, it slows it down enough to not get the race
<seb128> is that when u-s-d starts before compiz?
<seb128> or the other way around?
<seb128> or nothing to do with that?
<Laney> hmm
<Laney> could be a race there
<Laney> don't know if that causes this though
<seb128> the way it's supposed to work is for compiz to do the grabbing and send the events to u-s-d over dbus and u-s-d triggers the actions
<seb128> when you get the bug, does hitting the key generate the dbus events?
<seb128> of it does the issue is on the u-s-d side
<seb128> if it doesn't it's compiz/unity
<Laney> org.gnome.Shell AcceleratorActivated happens
<seb128> so u-s-d issue I guess
<attente> none of the shortcuts are working?
<Laney> doesn't seem so
<attente> did u-s-d possibly crash?
<Laney> nah
<attente> because then compiz would keep the grabs
<Laney> oh, in the past?
<attente> yeah
<Laney> umm
<seb128> attente, compiz having the grab would be fine?
<seb128> it's supposed to work this way no?
<seb128> compiz grab and send the dbus messages
<seb128> and u-s-d listen to dbus and call the callbacks?
<attente> yeah, but if u-s-d crashes, the new instance of u-s-d would re-register new grabs, but the older grabs compiz already has takes priority iirc
<seb128> why is u-s-d registering grabs?
<seb128> I though compiz was the one grabbing
<attente> i mean u-s-d registering grabs with compiz
<attente> over dbus
<attente> org.gnome.Shell.GrabAccelerator[s]
<seb128> how is that working? I though compiz was grabbing the key and just sending on dbus org.gnome.Shell.AcceleratorActivated
<seb128> that any u-s-d running instance would listen to
<attente> yeah, but it would be sending the old accelerator id
<attente> that the crashed u-s-d registered
<seb128> oh, I didn't know they had changing ids
<attente> the new u-s-d wouldn't know the old u-s-d's ids
<seb128> I though each action had a fix enum type number
<attente> unless i'm not remembering properly
<seb128> I don't know the details of that protocol
<seb128> I just had a remote look at the time you guys did the change
<seb128> you are probably right :-)
<seb128> Laney, since when is u-s-d running for you (compared to unity)
<Laney> can't check, sorry, I restarted it
<Laney> attente: if I get compiz to ungrab those IDs should it start working again?
<attente> Laney: yeah, ungrab over d-bus, then restart u-s-d should work
<Laney> it grabs it again
<Laney> :|
<EphraimMB> What is Unity 8 up to now? Any screenshots?
<seb128> EphraimMB, desktop or phone ones? you can probably easily google for some
<seb128> happyaron, bug #1380982 is the most reported vivid e.u.c issue, is that something you are looking at?
<ubot5> bug 1380982 in ibus (Ubuntu) "ibus-ui-gtk3 crashed with SIGABRT in g_assertion_message()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1380982
<EphraimMB> Desktop
<jcastro> willcooke, I had a concurrent session during the unity8 showoff
<jcastro> anything sexy I miss?
<willcooke> jcastro, I wasnt there either - too many concurrent sessions :)
<willcooke> maybe mzanetti knows? ^^
<willcooke> guess we could just watch the video
<jcastro> I just need a package name and/or PPA, heh
<mzanetti> oh yeah, you did miss something cool :D
<happyaron> seb128: sorry, nope, getting something hard to handle with willc
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-05-07
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> bonjour didrocks
<didrocks> hey pitti
<seb128> hey didrocks pitti & desktopers
<pitti> bonjour seb128 !
<didrocks> re seb128
<willcooke> morning all
<willcooke> Ballot spoiling day \o/
<seb128> hey willcooke
<didrocks> hey willcooke, happy voting!
<Laney> hey hey!
<seb128> hey Laney, how are you?
<Laney> GREAT
<Laney> i just put an X in a box
<Laney> actually 4 boxes
<seb128> X?
<Laney> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32618577
<seb128> oh
<seb128> why 4 boxes?
<Laney> local elections are happening too
<Laney> we have 3 people for that
<didrocks> morning Laney
<Laney> heeeeeeeeeeeey didrocks
<Laney> how are you seb128 & didrocks?
<Laney> spring is back today
<seb128> Laney, good, watching some UOS sessions I couldn't attend to yesterday
<Laney> nice
<seb128> content-hub & gsettings ones
<willcooke> Laney, did you watch Charlie Brooker last night?
<seb128> weather is changing here
<Laney> I got a notification on my phone about a content hub demo
<Laney> no idea why
<didrocks> Laney: good weather as well here
<Laney> willcooke: nope, was out eating sushi
<didrocks> Laney: yeah, seems Ken invited the world to the session :)
<Laney> worth iplayering?
<willcooke> Laney, if you like his stuff, yes - certainly is
<didrocks> didn't yet, will do
<Laney> I heard there was a thing on BBC4 which was two hours of footage of a canal boat going along
 * Laney wants to watch this
<Laney> http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b05t7kc1/all-aboard-the-canal-trip
<willcooke> Laney, yes!  I read it got twice as many viewers than normal at that slot
<Laney> we went on a canal boat holiday last year
<Laney> totally on board with this
<seb128> Laney, are you working on merging/updating rhythmbox (I think I saw some commits going by)
<Laney> just got this:
<Laney> Subject: rhythmbox_3.2.1-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into unstable, unstable
<Laney> so, yup
<seb128> going to do the merge for Ubuntu as well then?
<seb128> Laney, in which case please include https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rhythmbox/+bug/1452542
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1452542 in rhythmbox (Ubuntu) "rhythmbox-mozilla should be suggested not recommended" [Undecided,New]
<seb128> or maybe we should just stop building that plugin
<Laney> hmm
<Laney> probably makes sense
<Laney> larsu: yo, you around? fancy casting a look over bug
<Laney> SIGH
<Laney> bug #1447224 ?
<ubot5> bug 1447224 in totem (Ubuntu) "Regression: Unable to select audio or subtitle tracks" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1447224
<Laney> it's menu related :-)
<seb128> could be a Trevinho thing as well
<seb128> Trevinho, ^
<Laney> no
<Laney> well
<Laney> I think it is our traditional menubar patch being wrong
<seb128> seems simular to bug #1435348
<ubot5> bug 1435348 in appmenu-qt5 (Ubuntu) "qtcreator recently used file/project submenu empty" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1435348
<seb128> but maybe similar bugs in the different toolkit implementations
<seb128> or maybe a bug in the indicator...
<larsu> Laney: cool bug
<larsu> I'll have a look
<larsu> also, good morning everyone
<Laney> hey!
<Laney> how's it going?
<larsu> good, good. Found a *very* nice flat yesterday
<larsu> hoping we'll get it
<seb128> hey larsu! wie gehts?
<larsu> seb128: great! (see above ;) )
<larsu> how are you guzs
<seb128> larsu, oh, another nice one? ;-)
<Laney> awesome
<larsu> :)
<Laney> is it in a good location?
<larsu> Laney: yes! Next to a park in NeukÃ¶lln. Actually close to where dholbach lives
<larsu> we don't have it yet though
<larsu> applied for it last night
<ochosi> good luck then! :)
<larsu> thanks
<ochosi> i presume the park is not hasenheide?
<seb128> Laney, https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/gtk/lp1444174/+merge/256311 is also something you might want to merge in?
<larsu> oh, isn't that already in?
<seb128> larsu, dunno, the mp is not set as merged
<Laney> not for the SRU, but will be for W
<larsu> can I W yet or is it too early?
<Laney> W exists
 * Laney is a happy W user
 * seb128 too
<seb128> not a lot of changes yet though
<Laney> nope I didn't break all your scrollbars yet
<didrocks> oh session-migration patches, nice!
<seb128> :-)
<larsu> Laney: yes you did (I'm on ww)
<Laney> oh man ww, all bets are off
<seb128> Laney, larsu, speaking of scrollbars, just though about that ... do you know how is unity7/dash using those, and what happens once we update gtk? does the dash get gtk scrollbars for free? does it keep using o-s through some hack?
<larsu> seb128: it uses its own thing. Doesn't even listen to the gsettings key
<Laney> I think it probably does it via nux & doesn't use o-s at all
<Laney> or some other own thing
<Laney> (still works here)
<seb128> k, good
<didrocks> yeah, it's a nux widget
<seb128> I was unsure if they would d/l open, reuse some of the components
<seb128> if not, good
<Laney> Trevinho: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lyx/+bug/1430059 is similar to the above and is for you (you got assigned), please look
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1430059 in lyx (Ubuntu) "LyX menu is not updated by indicator-appmenu in mode unity-all-menus" [High,Confirmed]
<seb128> dlopen even
<didrocks> the assets are in /usr/share/nux/4.0/UITextures/
 * didrocks patched that in a past life :p
<seb128> we should perhaps change that implementation to look like the new GTK one?
<Laney> you nuxpert
<seb128> or is GTK going to look similar to o-s?
<didrocks> Laney: unfortunately, I know too much about nux I would ever have like :p
<Laney> hopefully we'll theme it to look similar
<didrocks> seb128: changing assets is fine and easy (just generate tga files), changing size and behaviorâ¦ I would say we shouldn't as everything is absolutely positionned
<larsu> Laney, seb128: we can, but we won't get the out-of-window experience
<didrocks> and so, we can enter a world of pain, knowing that nux isn't going to be the way forward
<Laney> sure
<seb128> right, at the same time we can't degrade the unity7 user experience too much
<seb128> it's still going to be the dev desktop for the next LTS
<larsu> indeed. I'll have a patch for you guys to look at soon
 * larsu is still struggling with some transparency issues
<didrocks> if we found someone working on it, good, just be aware that it's not going to be trivial and we can get a bunch of regressions which is degrading the user experience
<didrocks> so don't count on that being just a week hack
<seb128> didrocks, don't underestimate Trevinho :-)
<seb128> he knows that code, he wrote it, I'm sure he could do tweaks in a week
<didrocks> let's see :)
<didrocks> (I still think we degrade more the user experience by not having the same scrollbar in our default set of apps)
<seb128> degrade requires to start from a situation and lower it
<seb128> which we don't have today
<seb128> so we don't really degrade anything on the apps front
<didrocks> well, the o-s in the dash doesn't look like the one in our apps already
<didrocks> so how is it degrading?
<seb128> the thumb looks identical to me
<seb128> so identical that I though they might be dlopening o-s to load the widget
<didrocks> ah, you mean the thumb
<seb128> yes
<didrocks> not the scrollbar itself
<seb128> right
<didrocks> so, I don't know how the thumb is done
<didrocks> it can be a dlopen
 * didrocks was talking about the scrollbar only
<seb128> I see
<seb128> I was speaking about the interactive part of the scrollbars
<seb128> I don't find it shocking that the scrollbar/position looks different from apps since the dash looks different from an app
<seb128> they have different visual identities
<seb128> it would be weird to have a grey gtk scrollbars in a transparent dash
<didrocks> I find the thumb out of place though with this dash visual identity
<didrocks> you have a grey thumb on top of it (I never use the mouse to interact with it, so didn't notice)
<seb128> yeah
<didrocks> unity-shared/PlacesOverlayVScrollBar.cpp
<didrocks> they are redrawn it seems
<seb128> cool
<Trevinho> Laney: yeah, I saw that bug.
<Laney> ok, as long as it is in the pile ;-)
<Trevinho> seb128,Laney about that gtk build fix I actually proposed this months ago upstream (https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=744086) but Ryan never approved it (and neither larsu did) :Â°(
<ubot5> Gnome bug 744086 in .General "configure.ac: Pull gio-unix dependency for all unix builds" [Normal,New]
<didrocks> WHAT
<didrocks> pep8 is passing there
<didrocks> not in utopicâ¦
<seb128> Trevinho, sorry about that
<larsu> Trevinho: !windows == unix?
<larsu> not sure we want that
<Trevinho> larsu: in that context it is
<Trevinho> larsu: considering that gtk-launch is working in all !unix stuff
<Trevinho> err, unix
<larsu> Trevinho: gtk-launch doesn't work on windows, does it?
<Trevinho> larsu: no, it doesn't... but it's build everywhere else and it does require gio-unix
<Trevinho> built
<larsu> Trevinho: it does? Makefile.am doesn't mention that and gtk-launch.c has a lot of #ifdef G_OS_UNIX
<larsu> I haven't looked in detail, but it looks like I can build it without
<Trevinho> larsu: it can't built without gio-unix on unix...
<larsu> Trevinho: oh right, it doesn't do HAVE_GIO or whatever
<larsu> meh, fine by me
<larsu> would get a 2nd opinion from mclasen though
<Trevinho> larsu: I asked on #gtk+ some times, no feedback
<larsu> Trevinho: I'll put up a review so that we generate some bug mail ;)
<Trevinho> :)
<Trevinho> thanks
<Trevinho> larsu: not sure it merges cleanly right now btw... it has a couple fo months
<larsu> Trevinho: it applies, but is missing the have_gio_unix line from the mir backend which was added later. Commenting on that
 * Trevinho knew that he had to push to master directly :P
<larsu> Trevinho: err don't.
<larsu> ;)
<Trevinho> larsu: no, I'm a good guy
<Trevinho> larsu: how I update a patch with git bz?
<larsu> Trevinho: git bz apply <bug nr>; HACK; git commit --amend; git bz attach -e <bug nr> HEAD
<larsu> it'll mark the old patch as obsolete if it has the same title
<larsu> but drops you in an editor to make those kinds of changes
<larsu> bbiab
<Trevinho> larsu: yeah, I only missed the last command (I did the first two)..
<willcooke> qengho, do you know about this ppa:  https://launchpad.net/~saiarcot895/+archive/ubuntu/chromium-beta
<willcooke> what's the relationship with our ppa, if any?
<willcooke> I also read on the ML that "Widevine loading has been fixed so you can play Netflix on Cr."
<willcooke> is that real?!
<larsu> don't let desrt know this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/11009497/
<didrocks> larsu: didn't know we had such a service, nice!
<larsu> didrocks: for the timezone completion thing in u-c-c
<larsu> didrocks: it's pretty shitty though
<didrocks> ah?
<larsu> "Toront" gives 0 results
<jcastro> hi guys, what package/library handles copy and paste buffers for X? I believe I'm stuck with an out of date package due to PPA adventures and my copy and paste behavior is busted.
<larsu> didrocks: "Toronto" 12 or so
<didrocks> larsu: how dare you partially name Toronto! It's all or nothing :p
<didrocks> what? search completion?
<didrocks> ;)
<larsu> ya
<larsu> so, kind of important to get close names correct
<larsu> s/close/partially typed/
<seb128> jcastro, unsure, maybe tjaalton can help you
<EphraimMB> What does unity 8 look like now for the desktop?
<larsu> seb128: do you have the bug number for the datetime completion bug?
 * larsu cannot find it
<larsu> or Laney?
<larsu> I guess we used bug #1440157 for that? (it's slightly different)
<ubot5> bug 1440157 in unity-control-center (Ubuntu) "WARNING **: Could not connect to geoname lookup server: Operation was cancelled" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1440157
<seb128> larsu, yeah, that one
<Laney> sorry I didn't see it
<Laney> looks right
<larsu> ok. Who wants to review? :P
<larsu> finally got around to finish the patch
<larsu> also found the actual issue
<Laney> what component is it in?
<larsu> timezonemap
<larsu> creating the mr right now
<Laney> interesting
<Laney> thought it was a soup bug
<larsu> that's what I thought, but turns out it had a good reason for keeping those connections open:
<Laney> k, i'll look soon, have some other MPs from the redhat guy to review too
<larsu> the input stream was never closed
<Laney> need to arrange to get mail for this
<larsu> Laney: https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/timezonemap/lp1440157/+merge/258506
<Laney> nooooooooooooo
<Laney> it's libtimezonemap
<larsu> why no?
<Laney> or is it the other one?
<Laney> wait
<Laney> there's a bad one and a good one
<larsu> well this is the one that u-c-c links against...
<Laney> ah no this is the good one
<larsu> (I think)
<Laney> one's a fork of the other one or something
<larsu> ugh
<larsu> glad we have our processes down :)
<Laney> asked for ev to delete it
<larsu> thanks
<Laney> will you file a bug on the geoname server about the completion being dodgy?
<larsu> sure. Do you know the name of the component?
<larsu> there's already bug #1197969
<ubot5> bug 1197969 in unity-control-center (Ubuntu) "Date and Time config missing cities" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1197969
<Laney> i think it's https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-geonames
<seb128> it is
<larsu> ah thanks, I'll add that to the bug report
<seb128> there are a few related bugs
<Laney> not sure if anyone works on this actively
<Laney> so if we want it fixed ...
<seb128> e.g https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-geonames/+bug/769166
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 769166 in Baltix "Geonames location search results aren't accurate enough" [Undecided,New]
<seb128> or bug #1043843
<ubot5> bug 1043843 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "When a location name is typed in the text box on 'Where are you page', drop down list doesn't always show right location names" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1043843
<qengho> Hi all. May I have a sponsor to upload chromium-browser to wily from this PPA? https://launchpad.net/~canonical-chromium-builds/+archive/ubuntu/stage
<willcooke> qengho, hey - did you see my question from earlier?  Up there ^^ :)
<qengho> Er, I heard a beep but didnt see the cause.
<willcooke> forgive copy & paste...
<willcooke> <willcooke> qengho, do you know about this ppa:  https://launchpad.net/~saiarcot895/+archive/ubuntu/chromium-beta
<willcooke> <willcooke> what's the relationship with our ppa, if any?
<willcooke> <willcooke> I also read on the ML that "Widevine loading has been fixed so you can play Netflix on Cr."
<willcooke> * xclaesse_ (~xclaesse@modemcable154.55-37-24.static.videotron.ca) has joined #ubuntu-desktop
<willcooke> <willcooke> is that real?!
<qengho> willcooke: oh, saikrishna. Yeah, a community member. Does great stuff. There's no strong relationship between his PPA and mine. We trade ideas, except he doesn't have to care about legalities I do. :)
<willcooke> gotya
<willcooke> So the widevine stuff is not going to meet our Cr any time soon I expect
<qengho> willcooke: Right, we probably won't ever be able to distribute widevine without Legal Dept working out the details.
<willcooke> thx
<seb128> qengho, the upload is a pocket copy right?
<qengho> seb128: yes.
<seb128> qengho, I can do that
<qengho> seb128: thanks!
<seb128> qengho, yw!
<seb128> qengho, 42.0.2311.135-1ubuntu1.1160 is correct right?
<qengho> seb128: Yes. Verified.
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> copied
<seb128> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/chromium-browser/42.0.2311.135-1ubuntu1.1160
<willcooke> quittin' time
<willcooke> brutal few days.  So day off tomorrow.
<willcooke> ta ta
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-05-08
<pitti> Good morning
<nessita> seb128, hey, who could I ping for assistance about issues with the splash screen with nvidia drivers? I don't care it looks ugly, but since yesterday I can not type the HD decrypt passphrase
<seb128> nessita, hey, try tseliot or pitti maybe ... on what ubuntu version is that?
<nessita> seb128, vivid up to date, nvidia drivers
<nessita> pitti, hi! so I'm having an issue similar to what is described in LP: #1359689 but in my case after I enter the decrypt passphrase in the "broken splash screen" nothing happens, the boot sequence gets stuck with a blinking cursor
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1359689 in linux (Ubuntu Vivid) "cryptsetup password prompt not shown" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1359689
<nessita> I also notice the boot process to be much slower than before, so after googling a bit I ran systemd-analyze critical-chain, getting https://pastebin.canonical.com/131014/
<Trevinho> larsu: ah, I updated this https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=744086
<ubot5> Gnome bug 744086 in .General "configure.ac: Pull gio-unix dependency for all unix builds" [Normal,New]
<tseliot> nessita: any chance you can put /var/log/Xorg.0.log, /var/log/Xorg.0.log.old, and the dmesg output on pastebin?
<tseliot> (X shouldn't have anything to do with it at that point, but it won't hurt to check)
<xclaesse> Is there a way to disable alt key opening the menu bar in unity?
<excalibr> Preparing to unpack .../click_0.4.39-0~459~ubuntu14.04.1_i386.deb ...
<excalibr> Traceback (most recent call last):
<excalibr>   File "/usr/bin/click", line 31, in <module>
<excalibr>     from click import commands
<excalibr> ImportError: cannot import name 'commands'
<excalibr> can someone go fix that real quick? It's just a typo. commands -> command
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-05-10
<hikiko> hey
<hikiko> hello
<hikiko> I have a problem on my desktop on vivid
<hikiko> although I've done a fresh installation of lightdm/ubuntu-desktop (after purge remove)
<hikiko> and deleted .compiz-1, dconf/user etc
<hikiko> I can't start the unity desktop from lightdm
<hikiko> my settings as far as I ve seen are the default
<hikiko> and I can't find any relevant errors in the logs
<hikiko> I login to lightdm, compiz seems to start and then it stops or crashes and I see the lightdm screen again
<hikiko> +I never get this problem when I login as guest
<hikiko> but I have it when I login with any of my 2 user accounts
<hikiko> any ideas?
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-05-09
<pitti> Good morning
<seb128> hey pitti! had a good trip back? enjoyed the sunny sunday & recovered from the week?
<pitti> bonjour seb128 !
<pitti> seb128: indeed I did! we spent the entire Sunday outside; watching the canoo & kajak international contest on the wild water canal, I played basketball outside, did some gardening, and we re-coated our patio furniture
<pitti> seb128: almost no jetlag problems this time, sun helps :)
<pitti> I think I by and large figured this out
<seb128> great :-)
<pitti> seb128: et toi, as-tu eu un bon week-end aussi ?
<seb128> oui, plutÃ´t bon
<seb128> we were in the North of France, spending the w.e and picking up some fournitures, was quite sunny&warm
<seb128> bah, just looked at the forecast
<seb128> rainy started on wednesday and like 13Â°C next w.e
<seb128> starting
 * seb128 needs to go play tennis tonight while it's still nice
<pitti> seb128: oh, I had assumed you had some fixed times in the week for tennis
<pitti> seb128: is your partner flexible as well, or do you just play with whoever happens to be on the court?
<seb128> I've fixed times from training
<duflu> pitti: Morning.... and question: How to I find out the error report ID of a crash just submitted?
<duflu> I get no URL information. Just .uploaded added
<seb128> but then I know some people who like to play one or two time a week and are flexible on the days
<seb128> we usually play at 7pm or 8pm
<seb128> hey duflu
<duflu> Morning seb128
<seb128> duflu, you have a link to your reported issues in unity-control-center -> privacy
<seb128> duflu, or you can open 'http://errors.ubuntu.com/user/'$(printf $(sudo cat /sys/class/dmi/id/product_uuid) | sha512sum)
<pitti> duflu: in control center's "security & privacy" (or similar) -> Diagnosis you have a "show earlier reports"
<pitti> this leads you to the URL that seb128 mentioned
<duflu> Sweet, thanks seb128 + pitti
<seb128> yw!
<pitti> that page became a whole lot more useful during the error tracker sprint
<seb128> pitti, oh, nice, I didn't visit for a while
<seb128> good work :-)
<happyaron> seb128: https://launchpad.net/~happyaron/+archive/ubuntu/ppa/+sourcepub/6404038/+listing-archive-extra
<seb128> hey happyaron! how are you?
<happyaron> but not quite sure about the version to use, in 16.10 there's -1build1
<happyaron> great, :)
<seb128> happyaron, thanks, going to have a look to that today
<seb128> the version you used looks good
<Sweet5hark> moin
<seb128> also did you see the n-m bug I assigned you? we might want to cherry pack that specific patch
<seb128> hey Sweet5hark, wie gehts?
<happyaron> seb128: yes I've read that
<Sweet5hark> Im fine, how about you?
<seb128> I'm good thanks
<seb128> going to grab some coffee outside, bbiab
 * duflu seconds that
<desrt> hello desktop!
 * desrt is back from the mosel
<pitti> hey desrt!
<desrt> hello pitti
<desrt> your country is pretty
<pitti> desrt: some parts are indeed, the Mosel region for sure is
<pitti> desrt: did you get enough wine? :-)
<desrt> bleh
<desrt> i don't need to drink for another week, i think
<desrt> although i also brought many bottles with me :)
<Laney> morning!
<flexiondotorg> Morning.
<Laney> haha
 * Laney pictures a stern flexiondotorg sitting behind a desk
<willcooke> morning all
 * flexiondotorg is not feeling stern :-)
<flexiondotorg> But does need some advice.
<flexiondotorg> Debian is now GTK 3.20.
<flexiondotorg> Ubuntu 16.10 is currently 3.18.
<flexiondotorg> I've packages mate-themes 3.20 for Debian.
<flexiondotorg> But obviously don't want those to sync to Ubuntu, just yet.
<flexiondotorg> How can I version/name mate-themes in Ubuntu to prevent the Debian sync replacing them?
<flexiondotorg> Just add -0ubuntu1 suffix, or something else?
<flexiondotorg> Laney, seb128 Any suggestions? ^^^
<Laney> It won't sync if there's 'ubuntu' in the version string
<flexiondotorg> OK. Perfect.
<seb128> hey desrt Laney willcooke flexiondotorg
<desrt> moin, seb
<flexiondotorg> o/
<seb128> flexiondotorg, what laney said
<seb128> things are autosynced only when they are exact copies
<seb128> if there is a local diff it needs to be manually handled
<Laney> sort of, it determines it by version
<Laney> so if you do 'buildX' then it will be overwritten
<Laney> even if it wasn't actually a rebuild
<Laney> hi seb128!
<seb128> hey Laney
<seb128> right
<seb128> sorry should have been more specific ;-)
<Laney> good weekend?
<seb128> Laney, had a good w.e?
<Laney> heh
<seb128> quite, though we had to pick furnitures and drive around with those
<Laney> summer arrived all at once
<seb128> would have prefered to spend that time enjoying the sun
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> here it came
<seb128> but it's going away
<Laney> we went to the allotment
<Laney> did some digging and planting
<seb128> it's still nice but their forecast rain from wednesday and like 13Â°C for the w.e
<seb128> nice
<Laney> and then to a bbq, where it stormed about 5 minutes after we lit it
<seb128> :-(
<Laney> so ended up inside
<Laney> and yesterday it was hot again so walked into town to have lunch at a cafe
<Laney> but yeah, looks like it is dead from tomorrow http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/ng5
<pitti> hey Laney, good morning!
<davmor2> Laney: you got arrested and sent to prison \o/ and they say our tax money doesn't pay for law and order......oh wait you just mean inside your house don't you ;)
<Laney> davmor2: I know which one serves the better food
<davmor2> Laney: Prison right
<willcooke> seb128, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=765664
<ubot5> Gnome bug 765664 in User Interface ".view style cannot be overridden by external CSS" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<seb128> willcooke, great!
<willcooke> seb128, I guess this means we have to back port a fix?  Or we could just use my "patch"?
<seb128> willcooke, they included the fix in 3.20.2 it seems, https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-calendar/log/?h=gnome-3-20
<seb128> so we just need to SRU the update
<seb128> I'm going to have a look to that today
<willcooke> oh, nice one, thanks seb128
<seb128> yw
<seb128> thanks for following up on that
<willcooke> nw
<willcooke> I /think/ that might also fix issues I've seen with progress bars
<willcooke> the .view class is making things look wrong
<willcooke> i.e. progress bars are not filled in
<seb128> in gnome-calendar you mean?
<seb128> or the update-manager one
<seb128> because that commit ^ is in gnome-calendar, it's not going to fix other softwares
<seb128> they might have similar issues though
<seb128> willcooke, btw working with the oem guys on the u-s-d issue, the segfault they hit seems to be bug #1503758
<ubot5> bug 1503758 in unity-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "/usr/lib/unity-settings-daemon/unity-settings-daemon:5:XIQueryDevice:xdevice_get_dimensions:input_info_find_size_match:get_mappable_output_info:do_touchscreen_mapping" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1503758
<willcooke> ahhh, nice one, thanks seb128
<Laney> hey pitti (sorry, missed your message)!
<darkxst> hey willcooke seb128 Laney
<seb128> hey darkxst, how are you?
<darkxst> seb128, good, though its been a crazy week, Ali just stormed off from Ubuntu GNOME
<seb128> oh, waouh, why?
<darkxst> well there was some in-fighting between him and the marketing team, but I think the final straw was when I constructively criticized his UOS presentation
<seb128> :-/
<darkxst> and the earlier suggestions to simplify the convoluted mess he has made on the wiki and team structures
<darkxst> there are 180 wiki pages :(
<darkxst> willcooke, was there any updates on the gtk+ theme stuff for 3.20?
<darkxst> I did browse through the adwaita changes, look like a shed load of search + Replace commits
<willcooke> darkxst, no update.  Just "yeah, lots of work"
<seb128> flexiondotorg said they might be able to help
<seb128> their themes are derivated/close from ours and have been getting fixes
<seb128> so we might be able to cherrypick/apply those to ours
<seb128> though I'm not sure I understood the specifics of their themes, they have several variants and I'm unsure they fixed yet the ones derivated from ours
<darkxst> seb128, I am not all up to date with what they are doing with regards to gtk3 themes
<seb128> darkxst, http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2016/05/06/%23ubuntu-desktop.html#t15:00 for reference
<seb128> lunch, bbiab
<darkxst> seb128, right, doesnt sound like their themes are ported
<flexiondotorg> seb128, willcooke darkxst Ubuntu MATE is transitioning MATE 1.14 to GTK3 in 16.10.
<flexiondotorg> This requires that we update Ambiant-MATE to fully support MATE in GTK3.
<flexiondotorg> We have going to first update Ambiant-MATE to GTK 3.18 and then to 3.20.
<darkxst> hey flexiondotorg
<flexiondotorg> From previous experience, this will take some weeks to complete and won't be started until after the Fedora 24 release.
<flexiondotorg> Because I'll be working with MATE Fedora maintainers on this.
<darkxst> flexiondotorg, well there won't be a 3.20 transition until ubuntu themes are done
<darkxst> you say your patches will apply there also?
<flexiondotorg> But Ambiant-MATE is 99% the same as AMbiance. So once we've done the GTK 3.20 work, merging to Ambiant should be trivial.
<flexiondotorg> I am happy to prepare a merge proposal for Ambiance.
<flexiondotorg> Although I've been asked to prepare Ambiance merge proposal 3 times in the past and they were all rejected.
<flexiondotorg> So I'll be seeking agreement to proceed before I work on a merge proposal this time around :-)
<flexiondotorg> Laney, seb128 Trevinho Ubuntu MATE added solid-csd support to Ambiant-MATE during 16.04.
<flexiondotorg> Is this something you'd be interested in for light-themes?
<flexiondotorg> I know there is a discussion about Compiz and GTK Frame Extents going on and not sure what path you're likely to take.
<darkxst> flexiondotorg, part of the problem is with larsu left, no one experienced with theming on the -desktop team
<flexiondotorg> I'm not experienced, but I know a man who is.
<flexiondotorg> Wolfgang Ulbrich, MATE developer, has a deep understanding of GTK theming and the difference between GTK version.
<darkxst> flexiondotorg, sponsors don't just upload random code they don't understand, well they shouldnt
<flexiondotorg> It is Wolfgang who will be doing to heavy lifting on this. He is a  Fedora maintainer, which is why the start is delayed until after Fedora 24 is out.
<flexiondotorg> Wolfgang maintains all the upstream MATE themes. While I don't know all the intricacies and differences between theming GTK3 versions, I will be learning the ropes this cycle.
<andyrock> Morning all
<seb128> hey andyrock, how are you?
<ximion> Laney: looking at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/appstream-glib/+bug/1576780 would also be helpful :) - it's a low-priority bugfix, but one that's pretty helpful for 3rd-party rpo providers
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1576780 in appstream-glib (Ubuntu) "Needs to implement the full DEP-11 icon spec for compatibility with 3rd-party repos" [Medium,Fix committed]
<Trevinho> flexiondotorg: I could have a look to that...
<Laney> mmm
<Laney> I'm doing sponsoring tomorrow
<Laney> so will look then
<Trevinho> flexiondotorg: in case unity is running with its own decorations, we also add a class to the window (unity-csd), that could help you in ensuring that your css rules aren't applied when unity is running
<flexiondotorg> Trevinho, Thanks.
<flexiondotorg> Although, the solid-csd stuff is required in some cases. For example, running deja dup that is shipped with Ubuntu 16.04.
<andyrock> Hey seb128... Sorry lunch time
<andyrock> Tired
<andyrock> Busy weeken
<andyrock> Weekend
<seb128> andyrock, no worry, was the same for me (lunch)
<andyrock> You?
<seb128> oh
<seb128> too much party-ing? ;-)
<seb128> I was a bit tired this morning but juice, coffee, some food and I'm better now
<andyrock> Studying actually XD
<seb128> I had a busy w.e as well, had to drove around to pick up furnitures and move those and it was quite warm
<andyrock> It s not fun when there are 20 degrees outside
<seb128> yeah...
<seb128> ximion, Laney, does https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/1562733/comments/12 makes sense to you?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1562733 in apt (Ubuntu) "apt signature requierements prevent updates from some repositories" [High,In progress]
<Laney> seb128: does it make sense in what way?
<Laney> if you're asking about the Post-Invoke bit, you should talk to ximion
<seb128> Laney, sorry fail to understand the question
<seb128> "it might make sense to move the hook from APT::Update::Post-Invoke-Success to APT::Update::Post-Invoke so it runs even if the update errors"
<seb128> I was asking if that makes sense to you
<seb128> let me try to rephrase...
<seb128> do you think the suggestion done there ^ is a logical one?
<seb128> or something we should do
<Laney> I think two things
<seb128> Laney, I guess you reply means you have no opinion on using Post-Invoke-Success vs Post-Invoke then, let's wait for ximion
<Laney> thing one is that ximion said there was some reason to not prefer it
<Laney> thing two is that it isn't actually as unconditional as it sounds
<Laney> E: Some index files failed to download. They have been ignored, or old ones used instead.
<Laney> laney@raleigh>                                                                                                                                                                                      ~
<Laney> I added an echo 'hello' in there
<Laney> no echo
<seb128> using Post-Invoke?
<Laney> yes
<seb128> k
<seb128> Laney, thanks for the input, and sorry for the question not being clear and for being grumpy when you said so, I'm going to try to be more specific next time :-)
<Laney> I just didn't know which part of his reply you were asking about
<Laney> Post-Invoke works with W: but not E: AFAICT
<seb128> Laney, sorry, I overlooked that the comment started with the apt fix merge ... I wouldn't have pinged you about that since it seems Julian is on it and I guess it would rather be a mvo/infinity thing to comment on
<seb128> I should have asked on #ubuntu-devel
<seb128> Laney, juliank confirms what you said
<Laney> np
<Laney> I commented on it
<seb128> thanks
<Laney> sorry my internet is shitting up
<Laney> I hope that launchpad is going to let me re-submit that comment
<Laney> oh it did work
<seb128> it did yes
<mitya57> larsu, hi, could you please take a look at bug 1502476? Looks like the patch to add menu on Unity broke it on many other desktopsâ¦
<ubot5> bug 1502476 in totem (Ubuntu) "Totem menubar is displayed in fullscreen mode during gnome-flaskback session" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1502476
<larsu> mitya57: interesting case... there's nothing unity specific about this patch
<larsu> all it does is enable a traditional menu bar
<larsu> which unity pulls out into the global one
<larsu> but other desktops don't
<larsu> and there's no way to access the menu bar widget from totem, because gtk manages the menu
<larsu> desrt: what do you think about this ^? Should totem unset "show-menubar" when it goes into fullscreen?
<larsu> that probably breaks the global menu, though
<willcooke> hey larsu :)
<larsu> hi willcooke! How are you?
<willcooke> hot!!
<larsu> I know that!
<larsu> ;)
<willcooke> ohhhhhh, you
<seb128> hey larsu :-)
<seb128> willcooke, well, at least your line didn't melt down like Laney's ;-)
<willcooke> ha!
<larsu> haha
<larsu> bon soir seb128!
<Laney> all those bits flowing
<seb128> larsu, how are you? enjoy the sunny weather has well?
<seb128> oh, Laney haz bits!
<larsu> yes! Really really nice
<Laney> yeah I've been hiding
<larsu> hi Laney!
<Laney> trying to make lightdm test mode work
<Laney> #fail
<Laney> hey larsu!
<seb128> :-/
<Laney> what go
<larsu> seb128: coreos is having a conference here and there are lots of nerds around :)
<seb128> I though robert_ancell was keeping an eye on that
<seb128> no cookie for him!
<seb128> larsu, nice :-)
<Laney> does it work for you?
<Laney> lightdm --test-mode
<seb128> no :-/
<seb128> complains that it can't delete /var/lib/lightdm-data/lightdm
<seb128> though that doesn't seem to be what makes it fail
<seb128> the greeter segfaults?
<seb128> it says it sig
<seb128> sig11
<seb128> so yeah, bad robert_ancell, no cookie!
<Laney> I see that too
 * larsu quietly hands robert_ancell a cookie
 * Laney has a .crash
<larsu> (but don't tell seb!)
<Laney> #0  0x00007ffa84b7fd16 in strlen () at ../sysdeps/x86_64/strlen.S:106
<Laney> #1  0x00007ffa831d4204 in keyring_daemon_op (pwd=pwd@entry=0x7ffa84ebade0 <resbuf>, addr=addr@entry=0x7ffd01e905d0, op=op@entry=1, argc=argc@entry=1, argv=argv@entry=0x7ffd01e90990) at pam/gkr-pam-client.c:336
<Laney> #2  0x00007ffa831d47c8 in gkr_pam_client_run_operation (pwd=pwd@entry=0x7ffa84ebade0 <resbuf>, control=<optimised out>, op=op@entry=1, argc=argc@entry=1, argv=argv@entry=0x7ffd01e90990) at pam/gkr-pam-client.c:428
<Laney> #3  0x00007ffa831d587b in unlock_keyring (ph=<optimised out>, pwd=0x7ffa84ebade0 <resbuf>, password=0x0, need_daemon=0x7ffd01e909d4) at pam/gkr-pam-module.c:643
<larsu> Laney's password is 0x0!
<Laney> hax!
<Laney> ok I fixed that, easy
<Laney> see you!
<willcooke> see ya Laney
<willcooke> sheesh, Chrome just noms alllllll the GBs
<davmor2> larsu: no it's pi and who knew it ended well done Laney on that one :D
<davmor2> willcooke: so does chromium and firefox although FF likes to eat you cpu too :D
<willcooke> Chromium wasn't as bad as this IMO
<willcooke> having to use Chrome beacuse my sign in is broken for me
<davmor2> willcooke: no idea why it would work in one but not another unless you url cache got corrupted maybe, were you using 2 ids maybe?
<willcooke> gnight gang
<qengho> Hi hi. I found a Pandaboard on my bookshelf yesterday. I'm interested in putting some contemporary Ubuntu on it. I found some installer files, but the docs are pretty sparse and/or wrong. I'm technical and accustomed to other architectures. Help?
<qengho> http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports/dists/xenial/main/installer-armhf/current/images/generic/netboot/pandaboard/
<qengho> That has two "img"s. One MLO. Some uImage and uInitrd. I suspect some of those are published, yet used to generate some larger IMG files, and why published is a mystery to me.
<qengho> I tried DDing the boot.img-fb to a SD card. No boot.
<sarnold> qengho: my pandaboard is currently running precise; I installed using the omap4 preinstalled desktop image http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/precise/release/
<sarnold> qengho: .. one of these days I'm going to do-release-upgrade the thing
<sarnold> qengho: if you can't find any better docs, that route may work out alright
<flocculant> sarnold qengho : I had precise on one a while back, I did manage to get it upgraded iirc
<flocculant> (don't use it now)
<qengho> sarnold: This most specific, accurate species "OMAP4"?
<qengho> Er, IS this the most...
<sarnold> qengho: I've forgotten much of what I used to know -- I -think- that "omap4" describes all the pandaboards. I have a pandaboard ES. I can't remember if that "ES" is an important detail now :)
<qengho> PandaBoard ES Rev. B2, which has "OMAP4460" processor.
<qengho> 4460 // 1000 == 4
 * qengho shrugs.
<qengho> Okay. Trying it.
<mitya57> larsu, I hate suggesting that, but maybe wrap some code in that patch to if (unity) { ... }?
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-05-10
<andyrock> good morning
<seb128> hey andyrock, how are you?
<andyrock> hey seb, triaging some bugs before start the proper work :D
<andyrock> you?
<seb128> andyrock, I'm good thanks!
<seb128> andyrock, any annoying issue in the recent reports?
<andyrock> the nautilus one seems to be the most recurrent
<seb128> andyrock, did you manage to fix the gnome-menus one btw?
<andyrock> seb128: nope, i still get empty results some time
<seb128> :-(
<andyrock> or incomplete
<seb128> we should maybe ask desrt to have a look/review your changes in case she sees something missing?
<andyrock> i don't think the remaining problems are in gmenu
<andyrock> now the problem is in libunity
<andyrock> and it's way to cache desktop entries
<andyrock> *its
<seb128> does the gmenu fix improves things even if not perfect?
<seb128> or does it trigger the libunity one?
<andyrock> well sometimes you get the new app with the correct icon but no text
<andyrock> sometimes you get the new app with the default icon
<seb128> :-/
<seb128> andyrock, do you plan on debugging that one as well or did you move to something else?
<andyrock> i'll work on it
<andyrock> maybe i'll take a couple of days away from it
<andyrock> but not more :D
<seb128> k
<Laney> yo
<seb128> oh, it's already 10am
<seb128> hey Laney willcooke :-)
<seb128> how is u.k today?
<Laney> hey seb128
<Laney> it is raining!
<seb128> :-(
<Laney> alllllllllllllLLLLllLLLLllLLLlllLLLl day
<seb128> it's grey with a few drops here
<Laney> http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/ng5
<seb128> but it was nice yesterday evening
<seb128> had fun playing tennis!
<Laney> nice
<Laney> what a great sport that is
<seb128> lol
<Laney> i just watched house of cards last night
<Laney> /o\
 * thumper is watching house of cards too
<thumper> but only on season one
<thumper> o/ seb128
<seb128> hey thumper!
<seb128> how are you?
<thumper> pretty busy
<thumper> sprint prep for next week
<thumper> still doing juju stuff
<thumper> I'm still holding out hopes that one day we'll have an all hands again
<seb128> that would be nice
<seb128> Laney, you fixed the lightdm test issue? was it a gnome-keyring one?
<Laney> yeah going to submit it soon
<seb128> great
<seb128> Laney, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/xenial/+queue?queue_state=1&queue_text=gstreamer-vaapi
<seb128> Laney, which one should be rejected?
<Laney> WOAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<seb128> unsure why pitti didn't approve the oldest one when he got all the other gstreamer packages in?
<Laney> either of them
<seb128> done
<seb128> kept the oldest one so if people start by what is waiting longer they get it to it first ;-)
<willcooke> does that package provide accel. video playback for totem?
<seb128> does totem do that?
<seb128> oh, you mean vaapi
<seb128> it's supposed to
<willcooke> well, I figure totem uses a gstreamer pipeline
<willcooke> yeah
<seb128> that's the one we played with in the past
 * willcooke installs
<seb128> but there were issues IIRC
<seb128> let us know if it works for you
<willcooke> if it's "not broken" now, would *love* to seed that in 16.10
<willcooke> s/seed/put it in the image by default
<seb128> but
<seb128> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=762579
<ubot5> Debian bug 762579 in gstreamer1.0-vaapi "gstreamer1.0-vaapi: Does not work at all (with totem)" [Important,Open]
<seb128> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=820181
<ubot5> Debian bug 820181 in gstreamer1.0-vaapi "gstreamer1.0-vaapi: installing vaapi breaks gstreamer video playback" [Important,Open]
<willcooke> grr
<willcooke> :)
<willcooke> never easy
<seb128> yeah :-/
<seb128> we have been there in the past
<seb128> I think we discussed that in Washington?
<willcooke> :) yeah
<seb128> the first of those bugs has some detals
<seb128> details
<seb128> and a gst command line that you can probably try to see if that works
<willcooke> I'll put it on my list and try and give it a go later on
<willcooke> thanks seb128
<seb128> yw!
<willcooke> willcooke, grep gstreamer accel totem gst vaapi ^
<willcooke> seb128, so that's going in to proposed, and will be generally available in a weekish?
<seb128> the 1.8.0->1.8.1 update yes
<seb128> bug #1575152
<ubot5> bug 1575152 in gstreamer-vaapi (Ubuntu Xenial) "[SRU] gstreamer 1.8.1" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1575152
<tjaalton> huh, vaapi doesn't break totem here
<tjaalton> not since 15.10
<tjaalton> it should work fine in 16.04 too
<tjaalton> and does for me (intel)
<willcooke> tjaalton, nice, I'll try it
<willcooke> tjaalton, and does it actually work?
<tjaalton> willcooke: seems to
<willcooke> super
 * willcooke tries it
<seb128> tjaalton, willcooke, great, we should resume the MIR then (after checking that it actually works/make a difference)
<Laney> man
<Laney> go to gnome-system-monitor -> file systems
<Laney> U G L Y you ain't got no alibi
 * Laney lunch
<seb128> :-/
<seb128> Laney, enjoy!
<willcooke> Laney, the unfilled progress bars?
<willcooke> Laney, it's something to do with the .views class (or .view)
<willcooke> if I turn that off in the inspect, everything goes back to normal
<willcooke> but I can't work out what's doing it
<willcooke> it's the same in other apps too
<willcooke> unsurprisingly
<seb128> it doesn't look weird here
<seb128> unsure what issue you see
<seb128> oh, it does on ambiance
<willcooke> ahhhhhhhhhh
<willcooke> iiiiinnteresting
<seb128> yeah
<Sweet5hark> hmmm, remind me: does errors.ubuntu.com include ppa versions these days or not? it used to, then it didnt -- dunno about right now.
<seb128> Sweet5hark, check with bdmurray, I've no idea ... I think it does but I'm unsure
<Laney> Trevinho: if you're out of the sea
<Laney> did your nautilus patch fix things or is it cleanup?
<Trevinho> Laney: it's a lake... And an artificial one, so no real nautilus around :-)
<Laney> hoho
<Trevinho> Laney: but... Which patch?
<Laney> signals thing
<Trevinho> Laney: ah... right.. .I forgot about that (I was just checking my lp :))
<Trevinho> Laney: well, I thought it could fix stuff, but... it seems it doesn't. It's something else
<Trevinho> Laney: however, it's a nice to have
<Laney> ok, I can merge it but I won't bother to upload
<Laney> just pick it up next time
<Trevinho> yeah, that's fine
<Trevinho> For some reason, in some scenarios the ups settings aren't picked up by nautilus when launched by gnom-sessinon. It works when we use upstart for that.
<Trevinho> I think that's somewhat a race... Like nautilus expects ups to be already there, while instead is not loaded yuet
<seb128> hey Trevinho
<Trevinho> hi seb128
<seb128> how are you?
<seb128> having fun at a lake? ;-)
<Trevinho> seb128: well... it's cloudy... But it's relaxing to have something nice to watch when heading up from the code.
<seb128> :-)
<seb128> Trevinho, andyrock, saw https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/07bfd867f2151c746effac240cc1e406c22e5d70 ? that seems an unity segfault that started in xenial
 * Trevinho checks
<seb128> bug #1580211
<ubot5> bug 1580211 in unity (Ubuntu) "/usr/bin/compiz:11:unity::switcher::Controller::Impl::GetCurrentSelection:unity::switcher::Controller::Impl::Hide:unity::switcher::Controller::Hide:unity::UnityScreen::altTabTerminateCommon:boost::function3" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1580211
<seb128> bug #1580212 as well
<ubot5> bug 1580212 in compiz (Ubuntu) "/usr/bin/compiz:11:nux::ObjectPtr:nux::ObjectPtr:nux::ObjectPtr:unity::dash:::sigc::internal::signal_emit0" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1580212
 * Trevinho blames himself for the switcher model rewrite :-P
<Laney> you little horror
<seb128> haha
<Trevinho> Laney: don't be so hard... I generally fix things... generally :)
<Trevinho> oh, well I didn't change that thouhg
<andyrock> XD
<andyrock> Not at home right now
<andyrock> I ll check later
<seb128> andyrock, no hurry, thanks
<seb128> Trevinho knows his stack, fix already up for review!
<willcooke> :)
<Trevinho> :-)
<Sweet5hark> desktoppers: Are the gtk snapcraft repos to be found somewhere? Just wanna check that stuff out, if you did something fancy that I missed ...
 * Laney is suspicious
<Laney> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/255949588/brasero_3.12.1-1ubuntu2_3.12.1-1ubuntu3.diff.gz about that
<seb128> Laney, what about it?
<seb128> Sweet5hark, no, I don't think anyone looked at that ... also is there a point doing a snap of a library? we only looked at application so far I think
<seb128> Laney, there were similar fixes on other component, e.G https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-calendar/commit/?id=4e735ef3cef514a7fda1e5b94cd64941dbd2507d
<willcooke> meeting time
<Laney> glib does it if you use AM_GLIB_GNU_GETTEXT
<seb128> Laney, I expect the fix was mostly "rebuild in universe so .mo are distributed"
<seb128> though the code fix might be needed as well
<Laney> it is not needed
<Laney> or should not be
<seb128> I didn't check but it didn't seem crazy
<seb128> k
<seb128> so I guess it was the rebuild that did it
<Sweet5hark> seb128: yeah, I mean those gnome apps: gedit etc.
<seb128> Sweet5hark, https://code.launchpad.net/~jdstrand/+junk/gnome-calculator
<Laney> https://git.gnome.org/browse/glib/tree/m4macros/glib-gettext.m4#n259
<seb128> is the one we did in Prague
<willcooke> let me know when you're done and I will start the meeting, don't want to interupt though
<seb128> sorry
<Sweet5hark> seb128: thx
<Laney> my bad
<seb128> I think we can start
<willcooke> ok
<willcooke> thanks
<willcooke> #topic Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-05-10
<willcooke> me
<willcooke> forgotten how to meeting
<willcooke> #startmeeting  Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-05-10
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue May 10 15:32:44 2016 UTC.  The chair is willcooke. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-05-10 | Current topic:
<willcooke> Roll call:  andyrock, attente (sprint), desrt,  dgadomski, fjkong, happyaron, hikiko (out), laney, qengho, seb128, sweet5hark, themuso (out), tkamppeter, trevinho, robert_ancell (out)
<qengho> yo.
 * Sweet5hark waves frantically
<desrt> hello
<happyaron> hello
 * desrt has to leave soonish
<desrt> (ie: i cannot stay the whole hour)
<willcooke> desrt, lets start with you and if andyrock is around in a mo, we can come back
<willcooke> #topic desrt
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-05-10 | Current topic: desrt
<willcooke> I think we'll be quick today, with UOS and that
<desrt> short week on account of a very nice trip to the mosel river wine-growing region of germany
<desrt> mostly minor patch reviewing, and did a release
<Laney> what a quality release it is
<desrt> will continue on settings backend work this week -- i got a review on the branch, which is nice
<desrt> Laney: something gone wrong? :(
<Laney> dunno, didn't look yet
 * Laney just missed packaging glib
<desrt> :)
<desrt> well, enjoy
<desrt> eof.
<andyrock> I m here
<willcooke> thanks desrt
<willcooke> #topic andyrock
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-05-10 | Current topic: andyrock
 * seb128 can feel the positive vibe from Laney ;-)
<andyrock> # worked on the bug about new installed apps not appearing in the dash
<andyrock> # bug triaging
<andyrock> # start to look at a problem with blender and window resizing
<andyrock> #eof
<willcooke> thanks andyrock
<willcooke> #topic dgadomski
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-05-10 | Current topic: dgadomski
<dgadomski> hey
<dgadomski> * I spent some time debugging Samba regeressions introduced by 4.3.8 - fortunately most of them have been fixed by a quick 4.3.9 update - waiting for input related to samba with kerberos auth
<dgadomski> * investigating a touchscreen calibration issue - will prepare a lp bug for that
<dgadomski> eof
<willcooke> thanks dgadomski
<willcooke> #topic FJKong_
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-05-10 | Current topic: FJKong_
<willcooke> time out coming...
<willcooke> #topic happyaron
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-05-10 | Current topic: happyaron
<happyaron> hey
<happyaron> Mostly getting familiar to current status of network-manager, looking at the bug list, testing existing components, making some updates, etc
<happyaron> over
<willcooke> thanks happyaron
<willcooke> #topic hikiko
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-05-10 | Current topic: hikiko
<willcooke> - Tuesday - Monday: on holidays
<willcooke> - Today:
<willcooke> 1) submitted the fixes for the scale and expo plugins:
<willcooke> *
<willcooke> https://code.launchpad.net/~hikiko/compiz/compiz.scale-bottomYoffset/+merge/293123
<willcooke> *
<willcooke> https://code.launchpad.net/~hikiko/unity/unity.scale-launcher-at-the-bottom/+merge/293124
<willcooke> 2) setup xenial, profiling tools on a vm, started some experiments, also
<willcooke> installed windows in another vm (but it seems that it's not very
<willcooke> realistic to try to debug ubuntu on a vm inside a windows vm) :p
<willcooke> 3) I'm looking at the code that damages regions/rectangles in unityshell
<willcooke> - I think it needs some fixes
<willcooke> #topic Laney
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-05-10 | Current topic: Laney
<Laney> have a weird feeling I forgot some stuff in this
<Laney> â¢ week of doing preliminary stuff
<Laney> â¢ appstream:
<Laney> â Get local mirrors set up so that I can test fixes to appstream-dep11 and also bring up the new appstream generator (systemd timer units! woo!)
<Laney> â Set up backups and initial nagios checks
<Laney> â Unstick the instance
<Laney> â Discuss work to transition to new generator (handling existing data, freezing suites)
<Laney> â Talk about problems with some repos which make appstream not update its stuff, needs fixing on the repos and maybe apt too - it could consider a success anything which isn't a fatal error
<Laney> â¢ Build a package of gtk 3.20 to see what breaks
<Laney> â nautilus background rendering; there are some patches from Alberts upstream & in 3.20 but they don't fix it - you get a white background instead (Trevinho you could look at that if you are free at some point)
<Laney> â much theme stuff
<Laney> â unity-greeter looks bad, try to start looking at that
<Laney> â£ then notice that lightdm --test-mode doesn't work which involved a fix to gnome-keyring
<Laney> â¢ gnome-keyring from jhbuild doesn't build, fix that too!
<Laney> â¢ patch pilot
<Laney> ð
<willcooke> blimey!  thanks a lot Laney
<Laney> it's all small stuff
<Laney> but yw ;-)
<willcooke> #topic qengho
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-05-10 | Current topic: qengho
<qengho> * Completely drank desrt's GPG kool-aid.
<qengho> * Chromium v50 release testing.
<qengho> **  Trusty _uniquely_ is broken. I will need help from a C++ compiler expert, I think.
<qengho> **  Adding appstream data, yo. Patching upstream to generate it too.
<qengho> * Snaps
<qengho> ** Chromium snap SIGILL progress.
<qengho> ** Booting up a Pandaboard I inheritied.
<qengho> EOF
<desrt> qengho: hope it was tasty =)
<qengho> Yum.
<desrt> (also: ignore the strange thoughts in your head.  they're probably nothing.)
<willcooke> thanks qengho
<willcooke> #topic seb128
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-05-10 | Current topic: seb128
<seb128> â¢ shorter week, thursday was an holiday (though I ended up working half of the day thanks to next item...)
<seb128> â¢ UOS
<seb128> â¢ launchpad/e.u.c bugs triage, LTS status seems mostly good though some polish/bugfix is still going to be welcome
<seb128> â¢ SRUs: accountsservice unwanted auth prompts, file-roller stable update
<seb128> â¢ some sponsoring
<seb128> â¢ helped to verify some of the proposed xenial SRUs
<seb128> â¢ reviewed some u-s-d changes from the oem team which need work, discussed the issue with them a bit more then
<seb128> â¢ looked at/fixed a missing translation template issue for the touch team
<seb128> </week>
<desrt> seb128: did you end up just changing the auth to an unconditional one?
<seb128> desrt, yes
<desrt> good
<seb128> thanks for the input on that :-)
<willcooke> thanks seb128
<seb128> in a first iteration I had changed it to allow unactive session
<willcooke> #topic Sweet5hark
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-05-10 | Current topic: Sweet5hark
<Sweet5hark> - short week
<Sweet5hark> - watched some UOS
<Sweet5hark> - bumped 5.0.6/wily to PPA (5.0 now EOL upstream)
<Sweet5hark> - bumped 5.1.3/xenial to PPA (to be released as final this week by upstream)
<Sweet5hark> - some code review upstream
<Sweet5hark> - had to make sure upstream does an 5.0.6 respin for the openssl CVE, coordinate stuff
<Sweet5hark> - various backlog after sprint: various admin pieces
<Sweet5hark> EOF
<willcooke> thanks Sweet5hark
<willcooke> #topic TheMuso
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-05-10 | Current topic: TheMuso
<willcooke> * Some bug fixes relating to a BrlTTy which I SRUed during the sprint and is now in updates.
<willcooke> * Started working out plans and approach to unity panel service accessibility refactor.
<willcooke> * Worked with Debian to get new alsa components ready for upload there, will merge/sync once they are in Debian.
<willcooke> #topic tkamppeter
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-05-10 | Current topic: tkamppeter
<tkamppeter> - OpenPrinting Summit 2016
<tkamppeter> - Google Summer of Code 2016: Guide students to get started with their projects
<tkamppeter> - Bugs.
<willcooke> thanks tkamppeter, glad to hear the summit was a success, lets sync on Thursday
<willcooke> #topic Trevinho
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-05-10 | Current topic: Trevinho
<Trevinho> Â· unity-settings-daemon: fixed resuming of keyboard backlight
<Trevinho> Â· unity-settings-daemon: implementing org.freedesktop.screensaver API properly
<Trevinho> Â· Fixed terminal resizing issue, using a "workaround" not to break APIs (but not breaking anything)
<Trevinho> Â· Fixed upstart not properly registering environment variables for DBus activation
<Trevinho> Â· Fixed switcher crash
<Trevinho> Â· Some code cleanups
<Trevinho>  /EOF
<willcooke> great, thanks Trevinho
<willcooke> #topic robert_ancell
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-05-10 | Current topic: robert_ancell
<willcooke> - Started upstream process for XMir
<willcooke> - Working on paid app support in GNOME Software (for snaps)
<willcooke> - Updated some GNOME packages in Yakkety
<willcooke> #topic willcooke
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-05-10 | Current topic: willcooke
<willcooke> * UOS
<willcooke> * Met with new Recruitment chap based in London re: open recs
<willcooke> * Reviewed Crisis docs
<willcooke> * Tracking down why NFS mounts aren't auto mounting anymore
<willcooke> * Playing with themes to see if I can work out why progress bars aren't filled in
<willcooke> * Wondering what NASA are going to announce later on. Hope it's aliens.
<willcooke> #topic any other business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-05-10 | Current topic: any other business
<willcooke> Anyone got anything they want to raise?
<FJKong_> willcooke: hey hey
<willcooke> Plan on resuming 1:1s next week fwiw
<FJKong_> coming...
<willcooke> hey FJKong_
<willcooke> #topic FJKong_
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-05-10 | Current topic: FJKong_
<FJKong_> sorry for late,
<FJKong_> not much to update because I moved my house last week and wait for applying for new network.
<FJKong_> basically all work around sogou pinyin.
<FJKong_> that's all
<willcooke> thanks FJKong_ , congrats on the new place
<willcooke> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-05-10 | Current topic: AOB
<willcooke> AOBs?
<willcooke> going once
<willcooke> twice
<willcooke> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue May 10 15:52:01 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2016/ubuntu-desktop.2016-05-10-15.32.moin.txt
<willcooke> thanks all
<seb128> thanks!
<Sweet5hark> supersonic meeting awesomeness.
<seb128> willcooke, was the NFS issue a bug or a config issue on your side?
<willcooke> seb128, still not worked it out yet, I /think/ it's a systemd bug
<willcooke> mount -a doesn't work
<willcooke> individual mounting works fine
<willcooke> so fstab is correct
<willcooke> and nfs is working properly etc
<willcooke> could be gvfs related???
<willcooke> hrm, scrap that
<willcooke> looks like progress
<willcooke> mount points are showing as mounted in "mount", but they're not really mounted
<willcooke> cd ..
<willcooke> oosp
<willcooke> ahhh
<willcooke> ecrypt
<seb128> mount is lying to you?
<seb128> that's weird
<willcooke> dont remember encrypting my home directory, that was very good of me
<willcooke> I think I know what's going on now, speaking out loud about it suddenly it becomes clear
<seb128> :-)
<qengho> willcooke:  systemctl status \*.mount
<qengho> fg
<mitya57> andyrock, hi, do you have a link to that bug about new applications not appearing you mentioned?
<mitya57> I looked at a similar bug myself some time ago and filed gnome #764277 for thatâ¦
<ubot5> Gnome bug 764277 in libgnome-menu "Race condition when adding new applications" [Normal,New] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=764277
<andyrock> lp:1506744
<mitya57> thanks, so yes it's the same bug
<Laney> byeeee
<seb128> Laney, have a nice evening!
<seb128> Laney, did you mean to move the "get a standing SRU exception for snappy" to done? was that discussed anywhere where I missed it?
<attente> seb128: hey, do you remember what you did to get the menus working in the gnome calculator snap? was it anything more than setting the GTK_PATH to the correct directory for u-g-m?
<seb128> attente, we included unity-gtk3-module in the snap and had to set the GIO_MODULE_DIR
<seb128> iirc
<seb128> + shipping the gio static cache
<seb128> sorry, ignore the gio things
<seb128> just GTK_PATH and shipping u-g-m I think
<attente> ok. yeah, we've done that, but i'm not sure why it's not working
<attente> it's a gtk 2 app though
<attente> but it works with the archive version
<seb128> you are shipping the gtk2 u-g-m right? ;-)
<seb128> what app is that?
<attente> lol. *checks*, yes ;)
<attente> keepassx
<attente> oh...
<attente> lol
<attente> never mind
<seb128> what was it? ;-)
<attente> it's not a gtk app at all.. hahah
<attente> we only used the libgtk2.0-0 staged package for the theme
<seb128> lol
<seb128> that would explain
<seb128> hope the sprint is going well!
<seb128> who is working with you on that?
<attente> it's great here seb128. getting to room with didrocks again :D
<seb128> :-)
<attente> i'm here with elopio right now
<seb128> say hello from me
<seb128> k
<attente> will do
<seb128> thanks!
<willcooke> night all
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-05-11
<hikiko> Hi
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> seb128, Laney: I simply ran out of time on Friday when I reviewed the SRU queue :)
<seb128> good morning pitti!
<pitti> Good morning
<seb128> & desktopers
<seb128> how are you?
<pitti> quite fine, thanks! had a swap day yesterday, and met StevenK
<pitti> we did a tour through Augsburg, and went to Munich in the afternoon to pick up my wife from work, see the English Garden, and have Bavarian dinner
<sarnold> schnitzel? pig knuckles? thuriginer klosse? :)
<seb128> ah, nice!
<sarnold> welcome back pitti :) I hope travel was alright?
<seb128> what is StevenK doing around there? holidays?
<pitti> sarnold: yes, uneventful and on time indeed, thanks! and I mostly figured out now how to deal with jetlag
<sarnold> pitti: nice all around :)
<pitti> seb128: yeah, his mother, sister, and him do some kind of Europe tour right now
<seb128> nice
<pitti> seb128: and they stay in Munich for a week
<pitti> sarnold: absolutely; it was a nice sprint too
<seb128> you still have summer there btw?
<pitti> seb128: not really, it has been grey and a bit rainy since yesterday :/
<seb128> same here :-/
<pitti> I hope it gets better for the weekend, we want to do a rafting tour on Sunday
<desrt> good morning desktop!
<pitti> heeey desrt!
<desrt> hello pitti
<desrt> another beautiful day here :)
<seb128> hey desrt! how are you?
<desrt> good... doing some morning cleaning :)
 * desrt is switching from debfoster to apt-mark
<seb128> flexiondotorg, bug #1580382 seems like one for you ("topmenu-gtk" issue)
<ubot5> bug 1580382 in topmenu-gtk (Ubuntu) "/usr/bin/yelp:11:_gdk_window_has_impl:gdk_x11_window_get_xid:topmenu_monitor_set_cur_server:handle_cur_server_event:gdk_event_apply_filters" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1580382
<seb128> flexiondotorg, I'm just pointing it out in case, unsure if that watch that source but all the reports seem to come from your flavor
<desrt> desrt@humber:~$ apt-mark showmanual | wc -l
<desrt> 46
<desrt> shiny
<seb128> happyaron, hey, could you get a SRU/update ready for bug #1574347 (on top of the current one so we can upload once the first one goes to -updates)
<ubot5> bug 1574347 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "WiFi network list disappears from network manager applet" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1574347
<happyaron> seb128: work on that today
<seb128> happyaron, thanks!
<happyaron> seb128: have time to sponsor -openconnect? https://launchpad.net/~happyaron/+archive/ubuntu/ppa/+sourcepub/6404038/+listing-archive-extra
<Laney> morning!
<willcooke> morning Laney
<Laney> what ho
<willcooke> 'tis misty today, almost foggy
<Laney> pretty gruesome here
<willcooke> Rained all day yesterday, but still warm.  Good for the plants thogh
<willcooke> though
<willcooke> The allotment will need some weeding I expect :)
<Laney> hoe hoe hoe
<willcooke> \o/
<Laney> the other day I made a contraption to water underneath the cloches
<Laney> wonder if that's working
<seb128> happyaron, yes, on my list for this morning
<seb128> hey Laney willcooke
<Laney> yo seb128
<Laney> what up gangsta
<seb128> I started fresh and early today, was there for pitti's "good morning"!
<Laney> that's exciting
<seb128> and just back from getting some coffee
<pitti> hey Laney, good morning!
<seb128> which was welcome after email catchups
<seb128> what about you?
<Laney> hi pitti!
<Laney> I'm good thanks
<Laney> managed to dodge the rain yesterday while on the bike
<seb128> :-)
<seb128> pitti, remember that usd/upower segfault?
<pitti> seb128: I do, yes; on lid closing?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> that's a simple code reproducer
<seb128> 	UpClient *client = NULL;
<seb128> 	client = up_client_new ();
<seb128> 	printf("lid is closed? %d\n", up_client_get_lid_is_closed (client));
<seb128> do that with upower down
<seb128> -> segfault
<seb128> I moved the upowerd binary here for testing
<seb128> but some of the reports have upower taking up to a minute to start
<seb128> which I guess is some lower stack issues
<pitti> seb128: ah, so this crash comes even before the point when it would crash on a nonexisting lid object? or does it somehow handle that without crashing then?
<pitti> so I guess calling up_client_something() lazily does the dbus connection, it's not up_client_new()? or does that return NULL?
<pitti> (as client != NULL in the stack trace that I saw)
<seb128> the stacktrace might be a different issue
<seb128> I get a segfault with the code I just copied
<seb128> up_client_new() hang for a while
<seb128> then give a dbus timeout warning
<seb128> and code goes on
<seb128> and up_client_get_lid_is_closed() segfaults
<pitti> seb128: what's the value of client? some object or NULL?
<seb128> let me check the value, I think it was not null
<pitti> that'd be sad indeed
<pitti> if up_client_new() does block and shows a timeout, then it already does the connection and ought to return NULL
<pitti> if not, we surely need to fix that
<pitti> but I have a feeling that's not the whole story with the lid close crash yet
<seb128> no, it's not
<seb128> #0  0xb7f797ed in up_exported_daemon_get_lid_is_closed (object=0x0)
<seb128>     at up-daemon-generated.c:747
<seb128> #1  0xb7f7417d in up_client_get_lid_is_closed (client=0x8053f08 [UpClient])
<seb128>     at up-client.c:208
<seb128> #2  0x080485f6 in main (argc=1, argv=0xbfffef34) at upower.c:8
<seb128> so client != NULL
<pitti> eww
<seb128> so up_client_new() returns a non null value
<pitti> seb128: do you mind filing a bug about that on fd.o? will look at it ASAP
<seb128> doing
<seb128> thanks
<pitti> so with that, the lid was either a red herring, and those reporters have a slow-starting upower
<seb128> right
<seb128> which makes more sense
<pitti> or upower does start, and the lib later crashes on the nonexisting lid object
<seb128> because u-s-d code didn't change since trusty
<seb128> there were a few comments on the bug from people who say that upower is slow to start
<pitti> as it doesn't check if a lid is present
<pitti> seb128: interesting; so ideally it's just that then :)
<seb128> yeah
<pitti> let's see what they say once we have a -proposed package
<seb128> pitti, https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=95350
<ubot5> Freedesktop bug 95350 in general "up_client_new returns an invalid object when upowerd isn't started" [Normal,New]
<pitti> seb128: merci !
<seb128> pitti, let me know if you need more debug info, I'm locally testing with a systemctl stop upower/moving the binary away to avoid dbus activation, then using the test code
<seb128> de rien !
<seb128> pitti, some of the comments state e.G
<seb128> "You'll know if the system is hit with this as it'll be much slower to boot and the kernel will spew errors of the type:
<seb128> kernel: usb 2-1.1: device descriptor read/64, error -110
<seb128> kernel: usb 2-1-port1: unable to enumerate USB device"
<seb128> so I guess part of those are also kernel issues
<seb128> those users say boot is slow
<seb128> but I guess that should be reported separately as a kernel bug
<pitti> ack
<Laney> pitti: seb128: do you want to reschedule that meeting about de-upstartification?
<pitti> Laney: yeah, let's; I still don't have a good idea about how the user session is plumbed together these days, so let's at least exchange some braindump and see how to go on
<pitti> Laney, seb128, tedg: would tomorrow afternoon (EU)/morning (US) work for you?
<pitti> xnox: ^
<pitti> we have the foundations meeting at 1500 UTC, before that would be good
<xnox> that.
<Laney> pitti: I heard that systemd --user isn't really that ready yet though, so it sounds like this either means going back to gnome-session / xdg autostart /or/ taking on the systemd work
<Laney> desrt: ^^^
<desrt> talking about dropping upstart in the user session?
<Laney> yeah
<pitti> Laney: it indeed doesn't replace upstart --session directly, it's aiming for services that apply to all running user sessions indeed
<xnox> Laney, so, there are github repositories with user session units and systemd generators for xdg autostart things
<desrt> systemd --user _is_ a reality
<desrt> but it doesn't do all of the things that we might expect of it
<pitti> there's no systemd user instance per session indeed
<xnox> and it does work, however lenart didn't take any units like that upstream.
<desrt> debian is running systemd --user already
 * pitti has dbus-user-session installed for two weeks now, finding a few small issues but it by and large works
<xnox> so do we.
<Laney> well anyway, I don't know that much about it
<desrt> but as a gnome-session replacement?  not even close...
<xnox> but it's per user instance, not per user-session.
<pitti> such as https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=759115
<ubot5> Gnome bug 759115 in general "Add systemd user .service file" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<pitti> desrt: agreed
<Laney> so if someone wants to exchange their information to me/us that would be helpful
<desrt> i think we should do what debian is doing
<pitti> desrt: AFAIK they just use gnome-session and dbus activation
<pitti> but we moved from that to upstart --user
<pitti> and I'd like to understand the advantages that we got from that, and whether they justify maintaining upstart further
<pitti> as nobody is doing that ^ right now
<desrt> is there some benefit to having processes started from upstart instead of dbus-daemon?
<pitti> (and don't look at me, maintaining one init system / ubuntu boot is enough for one person :) )
<desrt> the answer to this is surely "yes, but they're pretty minimal."
<pitti> I see no benefit for real services, as they just get auto-activated
<pitti> it might be for things like indicators
<pitti> as with upstart user you can set them to auto-restart after crashes
<desrt> and this is where you were discussing xdg-autostart...
<pitti> and IIRC xdg-autostart/gnome-session don't have an autorestart thingy
<pitti> desrt: do you have time tomorrow around 14:00 UTC to join a hangout?
<Laney> and then what of phone?
<desrt> i will probably be on ICE
<pitti> Laney: oh, no gnome-session there?
<desrt> let me check
<Laney> nope
<pitti> Laney: although on a phone we could actually use systemd --user, as realistically there's only ever one session anyway?
<Laney> I should have said unity8/mir
<desrt> pitti: in fact, i'll be inside of a plane
<pitti> is this afternoon any better?
<desrt> yes.  it would be fine.
<pitti> seb128, xnox, Laney: ^ what about you this afternoon?
<Laney> sure
<Laney> you might want stgraber or slangasek for a discussion of the initial motivation
<pitti> ok, I'll invite them
<xnox> or jodh
<Laney> heh
<pitti> I sent invites, please feel free to move the thing around
<desrt> pitti: 3pm?
<Laney> it says 3pm here too
<pitti> desrt: too earl?
<Laney> maybe set a timezone and it'll fix it
<Laney> wait
<pitti> it was an initial approxmiation of "afternoon/East coast morning"
<Laney> I think my calendar is still on prague time
 * Laney looks
<pitti> I meant it to be at 15:00 CEST/13:00 UCT
<pitti> but later WFM too
<Laney> ya
<Laney> my bad
<Laney> I did wonder when a meeting earlier this week happened an hour before I thought it would
<Laney> should have been suspicious then :)
<pitti> time zones FTW
<desrt> somehow timezones always manage to be completely screwed for everything
<desrt> email and the web should have a widget that allow displaying a unix-epoch-based timestamp in whatever timezone the rendering machine is currently in
<desrt> (without allowing arbitrary javascript from email to run in my browser)
<pitti> not sure how many people would be *less* confused by "let's meet at 1462962700"
<desrt> you wouldn't actually see that....
<Laney> the tech ctte does this:
<Laney> Subject: Next Debian CTTE Meeting is at date -d 'Tue May 31 17:00:00 UTC 2016'
<pitti> hah, nice
<desrt> ya.. i basically want a form of this that is capable of rendering itself
<pitti> shell injection in email Subject: :)
<willcooke> Laney,seb128  "standing excemption for snappy etc" trello card is marked as done - is it really done?
<seb128> ah, thanks for the reminder
<seb128> I commented about that yesterday but I think after Laney left
<seb128> then I closed IRC so didn't see potential replies
<seb128> desrt, pitti, Laney, systemd-session meeting wfm
<Laney> isn't it about feature freeze?
<seb128> Laney, it's about SRU exception
<seb128> like being able to SRU new versions
<Laney> ok then move it back
<seb128> even if they include features and such
<seb128> k, thanks
<seb128> willcooke, ^
<Laney> I've not heard those things called standing exemptions before
<Laney> that is a term used for feature freeze exceptions
<willcooke> tomato, tomato.  What should it be called?
<willcooke> or maybe its not even a thing?
<seb128> dunno if there is an official namez
<seb128> well
<seb128> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#Documentation_for_Special_Cases
<seb128> so "SRU special case"
<seb128> ?
<Laney> or just put a description in
<Laney> it doesn't matter to me
<willcooke> oki
<seb128> Laney, does snappy about a standing FFe btw?
<seb128> just curious now, since you put it to done :-)
<seb128> does snappy have*
<seb128> I guess it's more a by-cycle situation though
<Laney> no
<Laney> there is no feature freeze
<seb128> it's seeded in Ubuntu so for sure it's subject to that feature freeze?
<Laney> everything is subject to feature freeze when there is one
<seb128> except things that have a ffe :p
<Laney> but a previous cycle's exception would no longer apply
<seb128> like touch packages have(had?)
<Laney> they ask for that every cycle
<Laney> but haven't actually for the last two
<seb128> k, makes sense I guess
<Laney> well they asked but didn't get them
<Laney> and it was in fact ok
<seb128> yeah, they cheat by using their overlay :p
<Laney> mostly by ignoring the development release
<Laney> or violating feature freeze
 * Laney doesn't read the changes list
<Laney> best not to know
<seb128> yeah :-/
<Laney> tedg: seb128: pitti: xnox: desrt: mind if we make it 13:30 UTC?
 * Laney would ideally be AFK at 13:00
<pitti> Laney: fine for me, just move it in the calendar?
<desrt> Laney: so, in 70 minutes?
<Laney> ack
<Laney> 70 minutes indeed, thanks - moved
<Laney> biab
<Laney> telegram me if someone can't make the new time
<seb128> Laney, wfm
<xnox> Laney, i thought we are meeting at 14:00 british summer time, no?
<xnox> oh 14:30 summer time now.
<davmor2> xnox: now you put this in my head https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yG0oBPtyNb0
<xnox> davmor2, whoop whoop =)
 * xnox swings his hips
<andyrock> morning all
<seb128> hey andyrock! how are you?
<pitti> seb128, Laney, xnox: ready for session in a minute?
<seb128> pitti, yes
<desrt> pitti: desrt@desrt.ca plz
<Laney> pitti: coming
<pitti> desrt: invite sent
<tjaalton> shouldn't unity pick up newly installed apps automatically?
<tjaalton> i mean the search thing
<willcooke> tjaalton, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1506744
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1506744 in unity (Ubuntu) "Newly installed applications do not show in the dash" [High,Triaged]
<tjaalton> ahah .)
<tjaalton> :)
<seb128> what willcooke said
<desrt> pitti: not seeing it :(
<willcooke> :)
<Laney> oh hangouts
<desrt> "Trying to join the call..."
 * desrt sighs
<Laney> I think pitti has to approve it or something
 * Laney switched to canonical account and got straight in
<pitti> I /msged him hte URL
<Laney> it looked like the hangout owner has to approve external people or something
<andyrock> hey seb128 fine just finished swedish class
<seb128> andyrock, hey :-)
<pitti> xnox: ideally we could make these services hang off session-c2.scope (the session specific logind "master unit"), then the lifecycle on logout would happen automatically
<pitti> xnox: and I think we have to, as you can't guarantee that you run shutdown code in the session itself (kill -9/crash/etc.)
<xnox> hm.
<xnox> pitti, but session-c2.scope is system, not user one....
<xnox> or can user units be part of system scope?
<xnox> i guess they must?!
<Laney> look at systemd-cgls
<pitti> xnox: not with the "classical" /user session ones
<pitti> xnox: but the logind scope is the one that is supposed to group all the processes that actually run in your session, so the lifetime of that is exactly what we want
<pitti> this is where it gets fuzzy and where I'd like to confer with the dbus and systemd upstream people
<xnox> Laney, pitti - e.g. /lib/systemd/systemd --user is not in a session-c2.scope, it's user-wide.
<Laney> how do you get systemd to put things in that scope?
<Laney> indeed
<pitti> there's another option, though
<xnox> use system units, templates per-user?!
<pitti> we can run the units as part of user@1000.service, and bind them to session*.scope
<pitti> so that they go down with the session
 * pitti needs to test that
<xnox> will those have DISPLAY?
<xnox> or does display need to be fetched from the session?
<pitti> xnox: user units do, yes
<pitti> I don't want to use system units for user session stuff, that'd be conceptually wrong and also dangerous
<pitti> and you can't make them start as the correct user
<seb128> hum, does somebody what part we were cleaning with snapcraft to avoid redownloading the debs?
<seb128> popey, ^
<seb128> like to rebuild after the wrapper changes
<seb128> ha
<seb128> "build"
<Laney> desrt / larsu / darkxst: do you recommend fastmail?
<desrt> yes-ish
 * Laney is de-neckbearding
<desrt> it's not awesome, but i don't know of anything better
<larsu> yes, it's pretty good
<seb128> arg, no -:/ that cleaned the deb cache as well
<larsu> greg was saying that they rate limit him sometimes
<seb128> or not, it's only redownloading the index
<larsu> but I assume you don't send that much email ;)
<seb128> larsu, "him"?
<seb128> larsu, oh, and hey :-)
<larsu> seb128: greg
<larsu> hi seb128!
 * desrt guesses that greg uses fastmail as a smarthost for git patch mailings
<larsu> ya
<larsu> 500 at a time :)
 * Laney wondered which greg but gets it now
<desrt> few people have a legitimate need to send 500 emails in a go :)
<seb128> lol, sorry I did skip over the "grep" at the stat of the line for some reason :p
<seb128> oh, no
<seb128> I read that as "grep" :p
<seb128> though you were grepping logs
<Laney> grep greg log.txt
<seb128> :-)
<desrt> i'm naming my kid grep
<larsu> Hahhahahah
<desrt> this is not going to cause any confusion or misspelling at all
<Laney> alright, migrating off this shit is my weekend project
<Laney> laney@cripps> wc -l .procmailrc                                                                                                                                                                     ~
<Laney> 351 .procmailrc
<Laney> and porting that to sieve is going to be fun
<Sweet5hark> grep sure will marry lil bobby tables one day...
<desrt> Laney: i bet there is a tool for that
<seb128> Laney, just curious what's the motivation behind?
<Laney> too much spam
<Laney> and a few times I have ruined everything and made emails bounce
<Laney> like the times the disk on the server got full
<seb128> :-/
<Laney> or the times that dspam crashed
<Laney> which makes mail get rejected
<Laney> So Good
<Laney> it's a really boring problem to have to solve
<seb128> yeah :-/
<Laney> and if my server is no longer doing email then I might actually upgrade it off wheezy /o\
<popey> seb128: i installed apt-cacher-ng in the end
<popey> but snapcraft clean <partname>
<seb128> popey, right, I remembered, "pull" is the part I don't want to clean, so doing a "clean build" works fine
<popey> oooh
<popey> learned something today
<popey> thanks
<seb128> popey, yw!
<seb128> pitti, how does the systemd suspend delay inhibit thing works? is it up to the processes to say when they are done/let the system suspend?
<pitti> seb128: yes, as otherwise you can't predict when they are done with whatever they need to do before suspend
<pitti> https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/inhibit/
<seb128> pitti, k, I'm looking a bit a bug #1574120, my guess is that one of the process has to no give the lock back ... I wonder if a "sleep 10; systemd-inhibit" call would tell us which one, just asked on the bug
<ubot5> bug 1574120 in systemd (Ubuntu) "Notebook doesn't suspend when lid is closed after update to 16.04" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1574120
<pitti> seb128: the process tells that it's done by closing an fd that you got from the Inhibit() call (so taht the inhibitor goes away when the process crashes)
<seb128> k
<seb128> so if one process is misbehaving it could make suspend not happen
<seb128> though why it work when selecting directly the item then?
<seb128> also InhibitDelayMaxSec defaults to 5s
<seb128> that's probably not it :-/
<pitti> seb128: it might mis-detect that there is an external monitor?
<pitti> suspend only happens with the internal monitor, if you have an external one or docked lid close doesnt' do anything
<pitti> (on purpose)
<seb128> pitti, is there any command that would tall that? there is no multimonitor suspend lock from u-s-d and xrandr doesn't list one
<seb128> unsure how to poke the systemd state though
<seb128> or how systemd check if there is one
<pitti> seb128: this isn't done via delays, but via  blocks
<pitti> some of the submitters have a block, but not all of them AFAIR
<seb128> pitti, right, but https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/1574120/comments/38
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1574120 in systemd (Ubuntu) "Notebook doesn't suspend when lid is closed after update to 16.04" [Medium,Incomplete]
<seb128> that's the one I 'm looking at
<seb128> there is no block
<pitti> so it could be that logind itself detects an external monitor and doesn't suspend by default
<seb128> right
<seb128> how would one tell if that's the case?
<seb128> do you know where systemd would look to tell if there is an external monitor?
<pitti> seb128: /sys/class/drm/ basically
<pitti> it removes the first cardN-, then  checks
<pitti>                 FOREACH_STRING(i, "VGA-", "DVI-I-", "DVI-D-", "DVI-A-"
<pitti>                                "Composite-", "SVIDEO-", "Component-",
<pitti>                                "DIN-", "DP-", "HDMI-A-", "HDMI-B-", "TV-") {
<pitti>                         if (startswith(dash, i)) {
<pitti>                                 external = true;
<pitti> seb128: enabling debug (systemd-analyze set-log-level debug) and then closing the lid should show that
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<pitti>                 log_debug("System is docked.");
<pitti>                 log_debug("External (%i) displays connected.", n);
<pitti> seb128: so an ls of /sys/class/drm plus debug output would be insightful
<seb128> pitti, thanks, asked that on the bug
<Laney> night!
<willcooke> see ya Laney
<seb128> night Laney
<willcooke> dinner. bbl
<seb128> pitti, waiting for the systemd debug but drm has "card0 card0-LVDS-1 controlD64 ttm" and only the one is "enabled"
<seb128> pitti, he added a journalctl | grep systemd log on https://launchpadlibrarian.net/259010581/somekindoflog.log
<seb128> there are lid closed/opened event without anything printed in between :-/
<willcooke> night all
<robert_ancell> ximion1, hi
<ximion> robert_ancell: hi!
<robert_ancell> ximion, been hacking on paid app support for G-S. Do you see this as something that should be in appstream?
<robert_ancell> ximion, It mostly requires attaching a price to an app. This wouldn't be added in the appstream file in the source, but in the service that compiles these together.
<ximion> robert_ancell: depends... What kind of metadata would you need?
 * robert_ancell struggles for the right terms :)
<ximion> jup - problem I see there is that the price can to be changed anymore then, as soon as the metadata is published
<ximion> it can only be changed by doing a new release to a different suite
<ximion> at least if you're talking about paying for .deb packages
<ximion> if there is a different system providing the metadata, it could of course be updated more frequently
<robert_ancell> Yes, and it probably should because getting old prices is bad
 * ximion isn't against adding a <price currency="eur">10</price> tag to metainfo and distro-metadata files
<robert_ancell> that's basically it.
<robert_ancell> and perhaps <allows-donations>true</allows-donations>
<robert_ancell> ximion, for snapd it's not appstream so I don't need to solve this right now, but worth thinking about for the future / other projects.
<ximion> robert_ancell: yeah, we had that discussion over at #PackageKit regarding Snappy using AppStream
<ximion> rejecting it for political reasons will hurt you later, and I honestly think it's a short-sighted bad decision
<ximion> robert_ancell: for donations, we already have an URL type which many upstreams use: https://www.freedesktop.org/software/appstream/docs/chap-Metadata.html#tag-url
<ximion> unfortunately, GS doesn't show this link
<ximion> I think the designers or legal teams didn't like it, but I am not sure about the exact reason for that
<ximion> (it's basically just another URL)
<robert_ancell> right
<ximion> I'd like some feedback from hughsie on the price thing...
<ximion> at time I think the currency-issue would be a problem
<ximion> standardizing it one one currency won't work, but having a huge enum of all the currencies in the world wouldn't cut it either
<ximion> worse, we would need to do currency conversion in the SCs
<robert_ancell> ximion, in the case of snappy, an app has multiple prices - one for each currency it supports
<robert_ancell> snapd suggests which currency you should use (locale + account preferences)
<robert_ancell> the currency code is a string using ISO 4217
<ximion> sounds reasonable
<robert_ancell> If the app didn't have the currency you pay with, the conversion would be done by the payment processor
<ximion> this would need to go into metainfo files, so upstreams can set a price
<robert_ancell> It would be too hard / dangerous to try and solve this in the UI
<ximion> agreed, that was my concern with it
<robert_ancell> ximion, well, I don't think upstreams can set a price because you're not going to be able to pay them directly - the money will have to go to a store and then be redistributed to each upstream
<robert_ancell> that's where I think the prices would have to be added in the service that compiles the appstream together. i.e. Launchpad in the case of Ubuntu
<robert_ancell> And each distribution could offer different prices
<ximion> robert_ancell: shouldn't upstream offer a price estimate?
<ximion> and would the distributor only ship one price per app?
<ximion> s/price/currency-price-combo/
<robert_ancell> ximion, well, the upstream could put a price and then the distributor could allow that price through if it had a relationship with the upstream / means of paying
<robert_ancell> The downside is you couldn't change the price quickly which is what is required for sales.
<robert_ancell> The norm seems to be one price per target market (USD/EUR etc)
<ximion> robert_ancell: well, appstream-generator always treats the metainfo file as suggestion, not as the final word ;-)
<robert_ancell> ok, good
<robert_ancell> yeah, it would probably make sense for upstream to start the price there (though the docs would need to be appropriately worded as to what exactly that means)
<ximion> robert_ancell: since frozen/released suites can't get new AppStream data, that would mean all stuff in there would have a fixed price
<ximion> (unchangeable even)
<robert_ancell> that's the downside of appstream...
<robert_ancell> it's less streamy than the name suggests
<ximion> well, that's more a property of the distro release process
<ximion> technically, updating the data would be no problem :)
<robert_ancell> ximion, so the appstream data could be changed for released distros
<robert_ancell> Might not be very efficient if it constantly changes though
<ximion> it *could* but since Launchpad doesn't allow any changes for released suites, this won't work
<ximion> but if they payed apps are in a different repo, that would work
<ximion> and I think this is what will happen, right?
<robert_ancell> ximion, we're only supporting snaps but yeah, the old paid .deb support was in separate repos
<ximion> I think that would be no problem then
<ximion> hmm, I wonder if asgen would allow a Snappy backend...
<ximion> it was designed for distro packages, but backends actually don't do much - they emit file lists and some basic package metadata
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-05-12
<hikiko> hi
<duflu> Morning hikiko
<hikiko> hello duflu :-)
<hikiko> how are you ?
<duflu> hikiko: Good, I think. You?
<hikiko> good
<hikiko> ;
<hikiko> Sorry
<duflu> hikiko: BTW I looked at kgunn's spreadsheet this morning. You hadn't filled it out yet. See email titled 'sprint?'
<Sweet5hark> goood morning desktoppers!
<TheMuso> Hey Sweet5hark.
<Sweet5hark> heya
<pitti> Good morning
<seb128> hey Sweet5hark TheMuso, pitti, how are you?
<pitti> seb128: quite fine, thanks! nice basketball game last night; how about you?
 * Sweet5hark is "woken due to construction in neighbor appartment" ;)
<pitti> hello Sweet5hark!
<seb128> pitti, I'm good thanks! a bit tired, though I didn't do sport yesterday evening
<TheMuso> Sweet5hark: Yep that would suck, particularly when the concrete is being drilled into/hammered etc.
<Sweet5hark> TheMuso: yes, that ;)
<Sweet5hark> pitti: heya, you shadow desktop team member ;)
<seb128> pitti, sorry for getting those lid close debug info wrong, though I think the | grep systemd was ok since logind output is "systemd-logind"
<pitti> seb128: oh, you're right
<pitti> seb128: I misread that, sorry
<seb128> pitti, no worry
<pitti> seb128: I followed up to the bug again
<seb128> pitti, danke
<seb128> pitti, I'm out of ideas now on that bug though :-/
<seb128> it's not a inhibit lock
<seb128> it's not an external display
<pitti> and suspend through menu works too, so the kernel/hw bits work too
<pitti> seb128: do we have an u-settings-daemon debug log from the power plugin already?
<pitti> to see whether that spits out anything useful?
<seb128> no
<seb128> pitti, but that user stated that "HandleLidSwitchDocked=suspend in /etc/systemd/logind.conf" make things work
<pitti> right, which essentially short-circuits u-settings-daemon
<pitti> seb128: the /sys/class/drm/* thing  still looks a bit suspicious though, as if card0-HDMI-A-1 was enabled
<seb128> right
<seb128> but xrandr disagrees
<seb128>  LVDS connected primary 1366x768+0+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) 344mm x 194mm
<seb128> HDMI-0 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis)
<seb128> VGA-0 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis)
<seb128> let's wait for the grep -r output
<seb128> just to make sure
<pitti> yeah, could just be different sort order of ls vs. glob
<seb128> is u-s-d involved in suspend nowadays?
<seb128> or is it just taking inhibit locks
<seb128> and otherwise letting systemd do the work?
<pitti> it should work mostly through inhibitors and logind AFAIK
<pitti> i. e. setting block inhibitors if you configure it to not suspend
<pitti> but that was from a few years ago, I don't remember the details any more, need to look at the power plugin
<Laney> morningu
<willcooke> o/
<pitti> hey Laney and willcooke!
<TheMuso> Hey willcooke.
<willcooke> hey pitti TheMuso
<seb128> back
<seb128> good morning Laney & willcooke!
<willcooke> morning seb128
<seb128> (sorry went out to get some coffee and took me a bit to get back online, that coffee place changed their wifi password :p)
<willcooke> hah!
<seb128> they added a "-" in the middle, go figure :p
<pitti> coffee shop at this hour already, tsk..
<seb128> lol
<Laney> when in holland...
<willcooke> trololol
<Laney> morning pitti seb128 willcooke et TheMuso!
<willcooke> happyaron, thanks for moving that NM SRU forwards
 * seb128 would like to point out that there is still one day to go before friday!
<willcooke> heh, seb128 I made a note last night to follow up the white corners in Calendar issue, and this morning when I check the bug I see you've already looked at it 20 mins ago :)
<seb128> willcooke, yeah, it was on my list, trying to get some SRUs uploaded today
 * willcooke puts on his tin foil hat 
<Laney> it's fixed in 3.20.2
<willcooke> yeah
<willcooke> t'is good
<willcooke> we might need a theme change as well
<willcooke> so I would like you to consider the coloured tabs in Terminal as well
<seb128> Laney, right, which is the version I uploaded
<seb128> or I think?
<seb128> yes, that's right, you made me doubt for a sec :p
<willcooke> seb128, shall I do an MP for the calendar theme change?
<seb128> willcooke, what change?
<willcooke> seb128, https://launchpadlibrarian.net/256667600/themepatch.txt
<seb128> we already had the transparent bg thing
<willcooke> we need some .views bits and pieces as well
<seb128> it works with our current theme
<seb128> well at least on my xenial
<willcooke> oki, lemme clean up my test machine and try it
<seb128> I included the rules that was supposed to work but didn't, before xenial
<seb128> that update made it work
<willcooke> ahhh
<willcooke> oh, no
<willcooke> humm
<willcooke> lemme try it
<seb128> did you already get the update?
<seb128> I uploaded that like half an hour ago
<willcooke> not yet
<seb128> k
<seb128> I was wondering
<willcooke> I need to wipe my test machine it's in funny state
<willcooke> so I can do that now
<willcooke> so terminal tabs.....
<willcooke> gooo onnnnnnnnnnnn
<seb128> did you ever get any feedback from Laney or larsu?
 * seb128 has no clue about vte and would prefer to stay away from this one
<willcooke> I dont think larsu cared either way, and I think Laney said they were ugly
<willcooke> a community member tested and said it was fine
<willcooke> and design said +1
<Laney> you make me sound mean :((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
<willcooke> but fait
<willcooke> fair
<willcooke> They do look uglyish
<seb128> if design +1 I think that settle it?
<seb128> then we need somebody to review the technical bits/upload
<seb128> which is were I was refering to the l* ;-)
<willcooke> ahh
<seb128> where
<willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-themes/+bug/762349
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 762349 in ubuntu-themes (Ubuntu Xenial) "Difficult to distinguish which tab is selected" [High,In progress]
<willcooke> https://code.launchpad.net/~willcooke/ubuntu-themes/terminal-tabs/+merge/292055
<seb128> willcooke, I'm going to try to get n-m and some other SRUs out of the way today, but if nobody else picks it up by then let's have a look next week?
<willcooke> sure, no worries at all
<Laney> what in the name of god is up with my network lately
<Laney> it hangs for minutes at a time
<willcooke> It's just a personal itch I'm scratching :)
<willcooke> Laney, VPNs up?
<Laney> no
<Laney> it's not the network itself because my desktop works fine
<Laney> and that's on the same switch
<willcooke> my laptop does a weird thing when I have wifi and wired connected, it keeps asking for a new IP address every 30 mins or something
<willcooke> could be similar
<Laney> where is that logged?
<willcooke> on my dhcp server :)
<Laney> there's something about ipv6 in the journal
 * willcooke has disable ipv6
<Laney> since when did I have ipv6?!?!?!?!?
<Laney> suspicious
<happyaron> seb128: https://launchpad.net/~happyaron/+archive/ubuntu/network-manager/+sourcepub/6415256/+listing-archive-extra
<happyaron> the nm thing
<seb128> happyaron, sorry, I mean to base it on the current SRU
<happyaron> seb128: probably we want to SRU every nm plugin, I can't see any of the vpn plugin appear in the list except pptp
<seb128> which you did... the diff link is confusing
<happyaron> :)
<seb128> happyaron, yeah, updating the plugins looks good. There is also a 1.2.2 update, need to do it and some point, though better for that bug to do the cherry pick to avoid potential issues with other changes that could delay the SRU
<Sweet5hark> seb128: "solved" my snapcraft problem btw with a fresh sources.list -- dont know yet what caused the trouble with the old one (esp. only in snapcraft, while working fine outside)
<seb128> Sweet5hark, k, good to know!
<happyaron> seb128: so we want those minor point releases being SRUed to xenial, if I understand correctly?
<seb128> happyaron, yes
<seb128> maybe get everything on 1.2 first
<seb128> then have a round for 1.2.2
<happyaron> ok
<seb128> happyaron, just uploaded your n-m-openconnect sru, looking at the n-m one now
<happyaron> thanks
<seb128> happyaron, you might want to do the 1.2.2 update for y to start
<happyaron> yep
<happyaron> just updated the bug, not subscribing anyone atm
<seb128> happyaron, you might want a new bug for 1.2.2
<happyaron> OK
<seb128> is that what you meant?
<seb128> reusing the same ones make things more confusing
<seb128> like it was already verification-done and has comments
<happyaron> yep
<seb128> get more difficult to know what applies to the current upload
<happyaron> well I meant I updated lp #1574347
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1574347 in network-manager (Ubuntu Xenial) "[SRU]network-manager" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1574347
<happyaron> I can move other stuff to individual reports if that's preferred
<seb128> hum
<seb128> let's keep that one for the cherry pick I just uploaded
<seb128> and get a new one for 1.2.2
<happyaron> ok
<seb128> where we can add the different components
<willcooke> ara, quick update... SRU for the suspend network manager issues is moving forwards ^
<ara> willcooke, \o/ thanks!
<willcooke> thanks --> happyaron & seb128
<ara> happyaron, seb128: thanks!
<seb128> see #ubuntu-devel as well about that, just pinged to try to get it reviewed today
<seb128> willcooke, ara, btw just read that bluetooth one, unsure how important obexftp browsing from nautilus is, but it's not trivial work and I doubt we are going to get that soon unless we invest dev efforts on it
<willcooke> yeah
<willcooke> I dont think it's something we would take on without there being a fix upstream
<ara> seb128, yes, I agree, but I guess they are concerned that the browsing files button is still there
<ara> not working
<willcooke> ara, but you don't see it right?
<seb128> that we can fix
<ara> willcooke, nope, I cannot see it
<willcooke> strange
<ara> willcooke, that's why I was asking Franz
<ara> I only see Send Files (which works)
<willcooke> I dont see anything at all about Bluetooth in Nautilus.. which I assume is because my phone doesnt do that
<seb128> I've "browse files" listed here on my krillin
<seb128> which is not around/connect
<seb128> not for my android phone though
<seb128> willcooke, it's not in nautilus
<seb128> it's in indicator-bluetooth for paired devices
<willcooke> ah, I dont see anything there either
<seb128> depends of the device capability/protocol used I think
<willcooke> yeah
 * willcooke goes looking for an Android phone
<seb128> willcooke, https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-bluetooth/commit/?id=d3e1698b3e9ded6fce35096ff3dba9cd8e5a3c8b
<seb128> "iDevices don't have OBEX support"
<seb128> basically
<willcooke> ah, thanks seb128
<willcooke> I found an ancient HTC here...
<willcooke> oh, looks like we might have a missing icon for audio devices
<seb128> where?
<willcooke> u-c-c
<willcooke> Bluetooth
<willcooke> I have one of those BT speakers in the bathroom
<willcooke> "BTS-06"
<willcooke> and I've got the black box with a red no entry sign in it
<willcooke> as the icon
<seb128> hum
<willcooke> I'll run u-c-c in debug
<seb128> willcooke, bug #1555170 https://launchpadlibrarian.net/247270085/Capture%20du%202016-03-09%2016-15-47.png
<ubot5> bug 1555170 in unity-control-center (Ubuntu) "Bad icon for bluetooth sound device" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1555170
<willcooke> ara, seb128 - with this android device I only see send files
<willcooke> so I think thats correct
<seb128> willcooke, yeah, as said same here, but with my ubuntu krillin I see the browse
<willcooke> seb128, thats the one
<seb128> I'm going to debug that
<willcooke> thanks seb128
<ara> seb128, ta!
<seb128> willcooke, do you see an icon if you see the icon theme to adwaita?
<willcooke> seb128, nope - but I do in High Contrast
<seb128> can you screenshot it?
<seb128> so I see what icon it is
<seb128> trying to figure back the name
<willcooke> seb128, added screenshot to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-control-center/+bug/1555170
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1555170 in unity-control-center (Ubuntu) "Bad icon for bluetooth sound device" [Low,New]
<seb128> willcooke, thanks
<seb128> brb, moving back home
<seb128> willcooke, it seems like we are missing an "audio-speaker" icon
<willcooke> that sounds like it :)
<willcooke> audio-speaker*s*
<seb128> correct
<happyaron> seb128: do you have access to retry it? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/1.2.0-0ubuntu0.16.04.2/+build/9730811
<seb128> happyaron, done
<happyaron> great
<willcooke> seb128, we have audio-speakers-bluetooth-symbolic.svg
<seb128> willcooke, -symbolic as well
<seb128> willcooke, does sudo cp /usr/share/icons/gnome/scalable/devices/audio-speakers-symbolic.svg /usr/share/icons/gnome/scalable/devices/audio-speakers.svg
<seb128> workaround it?
<seb128> (need to restart u-c-c)
<willcooke> seb128, I dont have the gnome icon theme
<willcooke> but I do have /usr/share/icons/suru/devices/scalable/audio-speakers-bluetooth-symbolic.svg
<willcooke> oh
<willcooke> maybe /usr/share/icons/suru/devices/scalable/audio-speakers-symbolic.svg is better
<seb128> oh
<seb128> just cp one of those to /usr/share/icons/gnome/scalable/devices/audio-speakers.svg
<seb128> doesn't matter much what icon it is
<seb128> just to see if that's enough to fix it
<willcooke> i need to mkdir /usr/share/icons/gnome/scalable/devices/
<willcooke> btw
<willcooke> seb128, didnt make any different
<seb128> k
<seb128> oh, that's probably because the dir is not in the theme index
<seb128> since that theme is not installed
<seb128> would perhaps work if you copy in the humanity one
<seb128> bbiab
<willcooke> seb128, fwiw - I installed tweak tool, and if I set the icon theme to Adwaita then it does work
<willcooke> the default (Ubuntu-mono-dark) is, I assume where I want to put that icon, rather than Humanity?
<andyrock> hey all
<willcooke> hey andyrock
<willcooke> seb128, oh, I think when you said change to Adwaita you meant the icon theme, not the gtk+ theme :)  sorry
<willcooke> so yeah, if I do that then it work
<willcooke> s
 * Sweet5hark fighting with vpns and stuff
<willcooke> seb128, sort of fixed
<willcooke> seb128, copied the svg from Adaw. to Humanity
<willcooke> sym linked it in all the devices sub dirs (22, 48, 64 etc etc)
<willcooke> as "audio-speakers.svg"
<willcooke> rebuilt the cahe
<willcooke> can haz icon
<Sweet5hark> *grmbl* building LibreOffice 5.2 alpha1: - using upstream bundled boost - using upstream bundled orcus => orcus builds b0rks on "this boost header is deprecated"
<Sweet5hark> *grumble*
<xnox> Sweet5hark, it probably bombed out elsewhere the deprecated headers usually are not a problem.
<Sweet5hark> xnox: hmm, indeed.
<Sweet5hark> xnox: seems like the "dot doesnt know which formats it can speak in snapcraft"-issue ...
 * Sweet5hark adds "sudo dot -c" to snapcraft build. always a good idea ...
<willcooke> andyrock, hey!  Are you blocked on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1574759 ?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1506744 in unity (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1574759 Newly installed applications do not show in the dash" [High,Triaged]
<willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1506744
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1506744 in unity (Ubuntu) "Newly installed applications do not show in the dash" [High,Triaged]
<andyrock> willcooke: yep
<andyrock> i'm working on libunity side now
<willcooke> andyrock, oki, desrt are you able to see if you can help andyrock out with that one at all? ^
<andyrock> for gnome-menus a simple timeout fix that
<andyrock> libunity uses a cache system and i'm trying to figure out how to workaround it without breaking api
<desrt> andyrock: did you get past the gmenu issue?
<desrt> gnome menus, rather
<andyrock> desrt: yep a simple timeout makes it work
<andyrock> but libunity is using is hown cache
<andyrock> *own
<desrt> so this is unrelated brokeness now?
<andyrock> yep
<desrt> ah... and same problem i guess
<andyrock> indeed
<andyrock> but not so easy to fix
<desrt> would the glib patch help?
<andyrock> i think so
<andyrock> but I'm trying to workaround it
<andyrock> i'm sure a timeout in libunity is enough
<andyrock> but still not sure where to put without impacting performances
<seb128> willcooke, try to see if tiheum can help us and make an icon for "audio-speakers"?
<seb128> pitti, so yeah, " /sys/class/drm/card0-LVDS-1/enabled:enabled" as expected
<pitti> seb128: yes, just saw
<seb128> let's see if he tries without usd
<willcooke> seb128, @ icon - done
<seb128> willcooke, thanks
<willcooke> hopefully we can get a new new one
<seb128> if not we can probably workaround
<seb128> like use one from the sound panel
<willcooke> good plan
<willcooke> desrt, please could you see if you can help with https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-settings-daemon/+bug/1503758 as well
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1503758 in unity-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "/usr/lib/unity-settings-daemon/unity-settings-daemon:5:XIQueryDevice:xdevice_get_dimensions:input_info_find_size_match:get_mappable_output_info:do_touchscreen_mapping" [High,Triaged]
<willcooke> trying to work out what's causing the seg fault, right seb128 ?
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> it's likely that the device goes away while being configured
<seb128> the oem team is hitting that one on a specific config
<seb128> seems the display disconnect/reconnect when its config is changed
<seb128> in any case u-s-d shouldn't segfault in those case, maybe some callback not disconnected when the device is going away?
<seb128> or the xerror should be trapped/dealt with
<willcooke> going for some excercise for the first time in..... too long
<willcooke> pray for my safe return
<Laney> what kind of exercise?
<Laney> tell me it's a jog to the greasy spoon
<willcooke> it'll be a walk to the driving range
<willcooke> and then beat up some golf balls
<willcooke> then a scotch egg
<davmor2> Laney: well he needs the carbohydrates
<willcooke> couple of ciggies
<willcooke> home!
<seb128> willcooke, enjoy!
<Laney> nice
<Laney> and then you can reward yourself with a dripping sandwich
<Laney> OMFG
<Laney> I just searched on DDG for "dripping sandwich" to get a picture of one
<Laney> apparently this term has been used in porn
<willcooke> and with that, away!
 * Laney dies
<desrt> willcooke: just about to board a flight
<willcooke> back
<willcooke> desrt, nw - later in the week perhaps
<willcooke> desrt, safe travels
<seb128> willcooke, wb! how was the exercice?
<willcooke> seb128, good!  I feel fitter already!
<willcooke> getting out of the house and in to the sunshine is a wonderful thing
<Laney> happier
<seb128> great!
<Laney> more productive
<seb128> yeah
<pitti> wow, sunshine, *want*
<seb128> in the u.k?
<seb128> they are lying!
<willcooke> thermometer says 27, but its in direct sun
<Laney> it's nice today
<willcooke> Summer 2.0
<seb128> here as well actually
<seb128> the forecast moved a bit but they still say that saturday is going to be cold
<pitti> I'm hoping for the weekend, we'll do a rafting tour on Sunday
<seb128> I hope you still get a sunny day for that!
<Trevinho> hey Laney do you remember about this https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/gnome-session/upstart-export-variables/+merge/293236 ?
<Laney> sure
 * Trevinho has to keep a list of things to SRU too
<Laney> trellooooooooooooo
 * seb128 likes the sound of SRUs
<seb128> speaking of which
<Trevinho> Laney: yeah, i already was doing that
<seb128> pitti, I guess you didn't have a slot of the upower issue yet?
<seb128> Laney, attente, who of you is going to handle the next g-s SRU? we should get going with that
<pitti> seb128: not yet, sorry; doing some urgent postgresql SRUs, and I've spent two hours on SRU review/cleanup so far
<pitti> not many people are reviewing SRUs these days :/
<seb128> pitti, no worry, good luck with postgresql!
<Laney> it's not going to be me
<Laney> robert_ancell or attent_e
<seb128> Laney, ok, so I guess it makes attent_e in charge
<seb128> which means we are probably not going to get the stable update :p
<Laney> he's in charge anyway
<seb128> not going to bother him during the sprint
<seb128> I guess that put us for next week :-/
<Laney> I wouldn't be slanty face about it
<Laney> it would take somebody else the rest of the week and more to figure out the update themselves
<Laney> he's already got the branch updated
<Laney> Trevinho: if you want to SRU this gnome-session and upstart stuff then could you make the bug SRU compliant?
<Laney> could upload g-s at the same time
<seb128> Laney, right, it has some issues but the main one (notification) is probably not addressed by the rebase anyway so needs some more work before upload
<Laney> wtf
<Laney> I keep doing bzr branch lp:~ubuntu-desktop/...
<Laney> cd ubuntu
<Laney> bzr branch lp:~branch-to-sponsor
<Laney> instead of bzr merge
<Laney> done it like 4 times in the last week
<seb128> where is that coming from? ;-)
<Laney> I forgot how to bzr?!?!?!
<seb128> git g-s workflow?
<seb128> though you would checkout to change branch
<Laney> weird
<Trevinho> Laney: sure
<Trevinho> Laney: do we also need new branches for SRU? As I'm unsure how upstart is managed
<Trevinho> we also have to include https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/upstart/activation-proper-dbus-path/+merge/294025 but I'm waiting xnox to merge to Y before
 * happyaron is forgetting bzr and goes git on LP for NM
<seb128> happyaron, let us know how it works for you!
<Laney> Trevinho: You could do if you want, currently the package uses lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/upstart/ubuntu
<Laney> could make ubuntu-xenial for 16.04
<Laney> if you fix Vcs-Bzr in debian/control at the same time
<Trevinho> I'm not much familiar into that vcs-bzr thing,  but I can have a look at it
<Laney> branch the tag that X released with
<Laney> cherry-pick the things from ^ branch
<Laney> write changelog
<Laney> fix Vcs-Bzr
<Laney> ask for sponsorship
<Laney> ???
<Laney> profit
<willcooke> seb128, Laney  - do you know... are rejected uploads still held somewhere so they can be resurrected?
<seb128> Laney, easy review if you could do it, https://code.launchpad.net/~seb128/unity-control-center/bluetooth-leftover-button/+merge/294508 ?
<Laney> willcooke: there's a rejected queue
<seb128> willcooke, yes, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/xenial/+queue
<willcooke> tkamppeter, ^
<willcooke> thanks chaps
<seb128> change the combo
<Laney> Trevinho: hmm
<Laney> did you measure how long this dbus call takes?
<willcooke> seb128, thanks for the BT Browse fix
<seb128> willcooke, yw!
<Trevinho> Laney: mh, no... is it causing any loop?
<Laney> Trevinho: dunno, I just tried it and it "felt" longer
<Laney> I wonder if it is a non trivial amount
<Laney> I was looking for problems though so might be false
<Trevinho> Laney: did you try on command line or using that g-s branch?
<Trevinho> we could move it to be async if we are worried of that
<Laney> branch
<Laney> I dunno, I could have made it up
<Trevinho> Laney: you can also indirectly test it by manually calliing dbus call --session --dest org.gnome.SessionManager --object-path /org/gnome/SessionManager --method org.gnome.SessionManager.Setenv
<Trevinho> with the patch or without... So we can have numbers
<Laney> nod
<Laney> I have it ready to upload once you find out
<Laney> pitti: thanks for your SRU work!
 * Laney is getting all the emails
<pitti> Laney: yw; there was some much-needed cleanup of old releases, and apparently xenial reviews are underloved too :/
<Laney> it was mainly arges doing reviews before now
<Laney> not sure if that changed lately
<seb128> yeah, would be nice to have some more people doing SRU reviews
<seb128> same with MIR, NEW, etc
<seb128> nothing new there :-/
<Laney> seb128: you know that time you allocated to do TB work?
<Laney> :) :) :) :)
<Laney> (: (: (: (:
<seb128> yeah, that's back when I was motivated
<seb128> before being rejected
<seb128> :p
<Laney> nothing more motivating than reviewing stable release updates
 * Laney is campaign manager for "seb128 for ~ubuntu-sru 2016"
<seb128> lol
<seb128> Laney, joke aside I tried that once
<seb128> I proposed to help/asked on IRC
<seb128> just got ignored
<pitti> seb128: oh, what? please do!
<seb128> pitti, well, as said I tried, but seems there is no formal process and the current team had no interested
<seb128> -ed
<pitti> there is hardly a "team" right now; you have to nag people on IRC, or sometimes I pluck up courage and do a round, but we don't have a formal roster any more
<seb128> but yeah, maybe I should considered asking again
<pitti> infinity and slangasek are admins
<seb128> pitti, thanks for the work you are doing on those btw!
 * pitti hugs seb128 and Laney  :)
 * seb128 hugs pitti & Laney
 * Laney hugs seb128 and pitti 
 * Laney whispers "pitti for ~ubuntu-sru admin"
<Laney> those teams feel a bit closed
 * Laney goes back to pagerduty instead of complaining about this any more
<seb128> yeah, it's like TB, it feels like that if you are no part of some circles you are never going to make it into those...
<pitti> ZE CABAL!
<seb128> though the TB is a vote, so different
<seb128> but we tend to have the same people involved in the decisions so it goes round
<pitti> seb128: apparently you didn't hand out enough gummybears, or free CDs or something
<seb128> yeah, I blame Laney, he was my compaign manager for that one as well!
<pitti> fire him
 * Laney is a secret agent of the foundations team
<seb128> Laney is on a master plan to join foundations and move on the safe side of things in UOS
<pitti> /msg Laney you were not suppposed to say that in a public channel; you just lost your business class and SRU review priority privileges
<Laney> there goes my free trips on canonical one
<GunnarHj> seb128: Thanks for correcting me about Brasero. (According to LP, version 3.12.1-1ubuntu2 was published as late as April 8 - possibly that's what confused me.)
<GunnarHj> For which universe packages is it appropriate to use "X-Ubuntu-Use-Langpack: yes"?
<seb128> GunnarHj, any that we want to be translated with langpacks
<GunnarHj> seb128: Sure. ;) And those are...? (I suppose we don't want to spam LP's translation interface.)
<seb128> GunnarHj, I don't really have an answer to that, any desktop software is fine, brasero can use it
<GunnarHj> seb128: Ok.
<seb128> GunnarHj, I think somebody had a look back then, even if that was activated for all package in universe it wouldn't be an issue, there are not that many packages using gettext/domain translations
<GunnarHj> seb128: As regards enabling it in Xenial for Brasero, a full langpack build is planned to happen on June 26.
<seb128> speaking of which...
<seb128> is that the first xenial langpack update planned?
<seb128> we should perhaps have one sooner to fix evolution&co
<seb128> pitti, ^
<seb128> opinion?
<GunnarHj> seb128: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/XenialXerus/ReleaseSchedule
<GunnarHj> seb128, pitti: We could of course add an update before that, but since I'm going to bother the translators with an ubuntu-docs SRU, I was disinclinded to propose that.
<pitti> seb128, GunnarHj: I don't mind either way; uploading an update is easy; verifying it is work
<seb128> Laney, thanks for the review!
<Laney> no probs
<ximion> Laney: who do I need to bribe so Ubuntu is updating PackageKit on Yakkety?
<ximion> that ancient version has bugs (recently broke Samba in Xenial), and also makes the life of Kubuntu people miserable due to a version mismatch between QPK and PK
<Laney> ximion: It's on the plan but it is some work so you'll have to be patient
<ximion> Laney: okay, thanks - with a reply like that I am happy already ^^
<willcooke> ximion, please feel free to pay bribes though
<GunnarHj> seb128: What issue does "fix evolution&co" refer to?
<ximion> :D
<seb128> GunnarHj, bug #1545212
<ubot5> bug 1545212 in language-pack-fr-base (Ubuntu) "Evolution 3.18.4 package does not include translations" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1545212
<seb128> GunnarHj, due to a but in langpack-o-matic evolution is not translated in xenial
<seb128> the .mo are missing from the release langpacks
<GunnarHj> seb128: I see. Do you know if  an ordinary langpack update (not -base) would be sufficient?
<seb128> I don't sorry
<GunnarHj> seb128: I'll try to check...
<seb128> GunnarHj, thanks
<GunnarHj> seb128, pitti: Don't find anything evolution in the latest PPA langpacks, so I suppose that a full language pack update is required to have the evolution .mo files installed. Considering the ubuntu-docs SRU I mentioned, which was triggered by e.g. the late "Software" -> "Ubuntu Software" change, I would really suggest that we don't add another full langpack update before the one I mentioned on June 26.
<GunnarHj> seb128, pitti: Let's work towards 16.04.1 in this respect.
<seb128> GunnarHj, ok, it means LTS users are let without evolution translated for a while :-/
<GunnarHj> seb128: Yeah, if you accept my view, I'm afraid so.
<seb128> I'm pondering doing an evolution upload without langpacks then
<seb128> but we have some ubuntu specific strings that wouldn't be translated in that case
<GunnarHj> seb128: That's one option. Or maybe pitti can figure out some other "special".
<Trevinho> Laney: these are my numbers: http://paste.ubuntu.com/16377806/
<willcooke> seb128,  do you have /usr/share/icons/Adwaita/24x24/devices/audio-speakers.png
<seb128> willcooke, no, is that one that you manually copied?
<Laney> Trevinho: hmm, what do you think?
<willcooke> tiheum, is that icon on 14.04?
<willcooke> I wonder if we lost it in 16.04 some how
<seb128> willcooke, adwaita is the GNOME theme
<seb128> we don't use it
<willcooke> seb128, just looking for an icon to use.  tiheum suggested we use the Adwa. one, but I dont have it
<seb128> oh
<seb128> /usr/share/icons/Adwaita/24x24/devices/audio-speakers.png 	adwaita-icon-theme-full
<seb128> willcooke, http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?searchon=contents&keywords=audio-speakers.png&mode=exactfilename&suite=xenial&arch=any
<seb128> is your friend
<seb128> it's in adwaita-icon-theme-full
<willcooke> ohhhhhhhhhh
<willcooke> nice
<willcooke> thanks seb128
<willcooke> I was just googling it :)
<seb128> bah
<seb128> ok, it's easy to fix
<seb128> the -full split is to not have too much space used by icon on the iso
<seb128> we just need to move audio-speaker to the non full version
<willcooke> in Adwaita?  So it will fall back to using it?
<seb128> yes
<willcooke> nice
<seb128> willcooke, see /usr/share/icons/ubuntu-mono-light/index.theme
<seb128> Inherits=Humanity,Adwaita,hicolor
<willcooke> ahh
<willcooke> got it
<seb128> so it looks into those
<seb128> willcooke, ifyou want to fix that, get adwaita-icon-theme and change debian/not-in-humanity.txt to list that icon
<seb128> + changelog update
<seb128> but don't bother, I can do that
<willcooke> sure? I can
<seb128> willcooke, you can install adwaita-icon-theme-full though to test, since it provides the icon
<seb128> that should fix the ui
<willcooke> will do...
<seb128> thanks
<willcooke> unpick my hacks first...
 * davmor2 gentle tug on this thread and watches all of willcooke hacks disappear 
<willcooke> seb128, confirmed, fixes it
<seb128> great
<seb128> thanks for confirming
 * willcooke is helping at Beavers tonight
<willcooke> so gotta shoot off
<willcooke> bbl I expect to finish the JDs
<Laney> night
<mhall119> Laney: seb128: is there some special environment variable or something that tells GEdit to not use it's Headerbar?
<Trevinho> mhall119: it should use a gtk-setting: gtk-shell-shows-app-menu
<Sweet5hark> woha, be careful out there!
<Sweet5hark> pitti is out with an axe killing zombie uploads in precise!
<Trevinho> Laney: ah, well... about those numbers I think there's nothing wrong,,
<Sweet5hark> seb128: https://plus.google.com/101094190333184858950/posts/2ehJvvHv8Ue
 * Sweet5hark s fingers slipped.
<mhall119> Trevinho: where is that setting?
<Trevinho> mhall119: is managed by unity-setttings-daemon, but you should be able to override that using a settings.ini file as described by https://developer.gnome.org/gtk3/stable/GtkSettings.html#GtkSettings.description
<mhall119> Trevinho: hmmm, should unity-settings-daemon manage it in a unity 8 session too?
<seb128> there is no *x*settings under a non-X session
<seb128> which is what u-s-d does
<mhall119> seb128: I just got to that part of the link Trevinho sent, it's starting to make sense now
<mhall119> "sense" in the "why was the display serving doing this in the first place" way anyway
<mhall119> Trevinho: setting gtk-shell-shows-app-menu doesn't seem to have any affect
<mhall119> maybe ubuntu-app-test is breaking it
<willcooke> hi robert_ancell, night robert_ancell
<robert_ancell> willcooke, hi bye
<willcooke> night all
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-05-13
<hikiko> hi
<PaulePanter> Hi. Where can I find documentation, what Unity does if I press the brightness keys for the laptop monitor? Does it use D-Bus?
<hikiko> PaulePanter hi
<hikiko> Brightness is not controlled by unity but
<hikiko> Either from vendor specific hotkey that has no interface for the os
<hikiko> Or acpi or graphic driver
<hikiko> Or through hardware register through setpci i think
<hikiko> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/backlight
<hikiko> This might help
<seb128> good morning desktopers!
<flocculant> morning seb128
<seb128> hey flocculant
<PaulePanter> hikiko: Thank you. Itâs a Lenovo W541 laptop, and pressing the brightness keys `acpi_listen` shows events, and also there is a popup in Unity. Unfortunately, the brightness does not change though, so I wondered how Unity got the event.
<PaulePanter> hikiko: But I see thatâs it is probably another component. Iâll look into the graphics driver next.
<PaulePanter> hikiko: Thank you very much!
<hikiko> PaulePanter, the pop-up is just a notification, the brightness is not controlled by unity
<hikiko> PaulePanter, you might want to look at this too: https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=981217#p981217
<hikiko> although it's quite old
<hikiko> just to get an idea how pop-up notifications work
<hikiko> and this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotifyOSD#Brightness_and_backlight_changes
<PaulePanter> hikiko: Awesome. Thank you. Iâll wait for my colleague to arrive with the device.
<hikiko> good luck :)
<Laney> moinonononon
<seb128> hey Laney, happy friday!
<seb128> how are you?
<happyaron> hey guys
<happyaron> for yakkety, :) https://launchpad.net/~happyaron/+archive/ubuntu/network-manager/+sourcepub/6419268/+listing-archive-extra
<willcooke> morning all
<Laney> seb128: good thanks, did some nice climbing last night ;-)
<Laney> and today we are going camping for one night!
<Laney> how are you?
<seb128> happyaron, thanks, going to look at that toay!
<willcooke> thanks happyaron
<Laney> hi willcooke & happyaron too
<Laney> what is the happening
<seb128> Laney, I'm good, didn't find anybody to play tennis yesterday evening though, which was frustrating because neither was nice and I had nothing else to do
<willcooke> g'day.  Summer is over.
<seb128> oh, well
<seb128> hey willcooke
<seb128> today is going to be "SRU drum day"
<willcooke> seb128, but at least you got to teach me about deb diff :)
<seb128> :-)
<willcooke> not quite tennis though
<seb128> and sponsored the libreoffice SRU from Sweet5hark
<seb128> right
<seb128> I'm going to try to motivate others to SRU a bit as well
 * seb128 looks at Laney attente Trevinho :p
<Sweet5hark> seb128: are we getting cookies?
<happyaron> ah and we get zfs accepted in debian, so starting the merging work
<willcooke> happyaron, Woo!  Nice
<seb128> willcooke, I wonder if it would make sense to have a SRU trello board?
 * willcooke ponders
<seb128> we could have a stack of updates we need to SRU, libreoffice/file-roller/gnome-calendar/n-m/gnome-software-/glib/gvfs/...
<seb128> + the oem bugs
<seb128> it might give some visibility on those
<willcooke> sure thing.
<seb128> not sure how to do better
<willcooke> It's easy to set up now
<seb128> but I've a feeling we don't get much LTS work traction atm
<willcooke> so we can at least try - there's no harm done
<seb128> I don't know how to solve that and if the trello would help though
<willcooke> seb128, what do you mean by not much traction?  Like we should be pushing more SRUs?
<Sweet5hark> seb128: yeah, and it also helps seeing when a SRU starts rotting away in review ... (I,for one easily loose sight of that)
<seb128> Sweet5hark, right
<seb128> willcooke, yeah, we are not doing a good job at keeping the fixes/updates rolling for the LTS
<willcooke> oh, I thought we were doing ok.  In which case, yes, lets track
<willcooke> https://trello.com/b/ySwNniD5/sru-board
<willcooke> seb128, let's add the tag "desktop-trello-import" to the bugs
<seb128> willcooke, how does your script know to which board to import?
<willcooke> (I changed the tag to include desktop otherwise I was worried we'd clash with others)
<willcooke> seb128, you have to tell it - I tried to be clever, but it just wasnt flexible enough
<seb128> willcooke, can't edit that board
<willcooke> seb128, you have to "join" it first I think
<willcooke> click "show menu" on the rhs
<willcooke> then you should have "join board" at the top
<seb128> k
<seb128> done
<willcooke> oh, there is also a button I can click here...
<willcooke> add add team members
<willcooke> done that too
<willcooke> *add all
<Laney> wow
<willcooke> seb128, added a "In review queue" list
<seb128> good :-)
<willcooke> seb128, just thinking about this...
<willcooke> I was going to say we should add bugs to the board, but...
<willcooke> is it the case that sometimes more than one bug combine to become an SRU?
<willcooke> like, should we track each bug in the baord, or each "SRU Case"
<seb128> bugs
<willcooke> oki
<seb128> if you fix 3 bugs in one upload it's fine to move the 3 cards
<willcooke> in which case, let's add "desktop-trello-import" tags and then I can import them
<seb128> k, I'm doing that
<willcooke> once the import is run the tags are removed, so if we want to import it in to someones board we can just retag and run the script again
<Laney> sooooooooo
<Laney> what am I supposed to do?
<willcooke> Laney, couple of things potentially
<Laney> I got emailed by trello about some updates from this week that I would have done anyway
<willcooke> Laney, tag bugs which need to be SRU'd "desktop-trello-import"
<willcooke> Laney, or pick things from the backlog to work on them
<seb128> willcooke, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=desktop-trello-import
<seb128> looks good?
<seb128> Laney, just put things you plan to do in the trello/take the cards if they are already there
<seb128> Laney, it's useful so others also know you plan to do those
<willcooke> seb128,  thanks!  Just going through my mental list to see if I can think of anything else
<seb128> Laney, also it gives us a list of things people can "help on" and help us tracking/make sure we don't forget to work on e.G issues raised by the oem team
<Laney> seb128: OK it sounded like drum banging and not doing a good job and trying to motivate means that you think I'm not doing enough work already
<Laney> when actually I have a very big list of things to work on
<seb128> I know, I never implied that you were not working hard
<seb128> but atm imho we have issues
<willcooke> Laney, not the case.  We're just trying to get organsied.  Sorry if you got the impression we were moaning
<seb128> - having a view of what people are working on/what is their todolist
<seb128> - making sure things don't fall into the cracks/get forgotten
<willcooke> Trevinho - is the missing menus ready for SRU yet?  Still some things to do there?
<seb128> Laney, I think it's going to help to have a "pool" of "issues we need to work on", some people like robert_ancell said in the past that they would be happy to tackle on some of those but they just don't have good visibility on what got oem escalated/flagged as important
<seb128> willcooke, maybe rename the board to include "desktop" in the name?
<willcooke> done
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> the current set looks good?
<seb128> +1 from me
<andyrock> morning
<seb128> hey andyrock! how are you?
<andyrock> seb128: not bad not bad you?
<seb128> andyrock, I'm good thanks ;-)
<seb128> it's friday!
<seb128> andyrock, is your gnome-menus fix submitted upstream? if we land it without the libunity fix does it make things more buggy or not?
<andyrock> it's more buggy unity side
<seb128> :-(
<seb128> willcooke, can you reimport, I added bug #1571574
<ubot5> bug 1571574 in OEM Priority Project "3G icon missing in network-manager-applet" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1571574
<willcooke> python getopt examples
<willcooke> err
<willcooke> I mean yes
<willcooke> seb128, done
<seb128> willcooke, thanks
<willcooke> just trying to add cmd line args to my script
<seb128> to specify the board?
<willcooke> getopt is ace
<willcooke> yeah, the board, the project etc
<seb128> nice!
<willcooke> I decided against just doing a global import of anything in "ubuntu" with the tag
<willcooke> because each run of the script is bugs -> one board
<seb128> yeah, probably be better to be explicit
<willcooke> n bugs -> 1 board
<willcooke> so if we do it on a per project level
<willcooke> we can have a big tag fest
<willcooke> and then work through them in a more granular fasion
<willcooke> fashion
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> k, I'm out for lunch with friends
<seb128> back in ~1.5h
<willcooke> seb128, have fun!
<seb128> thanks!
<Laney> pitti: do you know if there's a general problem with dkms tests on yakkety/amd64?
<Laney> see glib2.0
<pitti> Laney: yes, there is; all kernel module builds currently fail on amd64 due to the new -fPIE
<pitti> Laney: kernel team is aware of/working on it
<Laney> ack
<pitti> Laney: in the meantime, I keep force-skiptest'ing packages which get broken by this
<Laney> thanks, I'll do so for glib then
<pitti> annoying, I know
<pitti> cheers
<Laney> is there a bug to spy on?
<pitti> I'm not aware of one, /me searches
<Laney> doesn't matter
<larsu> pitti: I guess this is a false positive? https://github.com/systemd/systemd/pull/3245
 * larsu doesn't understand the error
<larsu> also, hi pitti!
<pitti> hey larsu
<larsu> and hi everyone else. happy sunny friday!
<pitti> larsu: ITYM "false negative" :)
<pitti> larsu: it was raning since yesterday :/
<pitti> but en route to Dresden where it's sunny
<larsu> pitti: oh, yeah, of course false negative :)
<pitti> larsu: yep, tests are PASS, just the cloud acting up
<larsu> pitti: ok cool. Should I mention that on the bug or what's the process?
<larsu> retrigger?
<pitti> larsu: I just dif
<pitti> did
<pitti> larsu: it's fine, we merge stuff with these kind of noise
<larsu> thanks! :)
<larsu> pitti: we do too in cockpit, but I wanted to make sure
<pitti> larsu: doing systemd now, as part of cockpit?
<larsu> pitti: not really. I just use busctl a lot to debug things :)
<larsu> my other systemd patch is in the same function :)
<larsu> we have a summer of code student that's working on making time units work from cockpit
<larsu> which will need some changes in systemd that we're just discussing
<Sweet5hark> schni ... scha ...
<Sweet5hark> +n
 * pitti runs away screaming
<pitti> hate that song!
 * Sweet5hark follows pitti with a giant plush crocodile
<pitti> dieu merci il est vendredi
<desrt> hello europeans!  i am no longer with you
<pitti> hey desrt! made it back home in one piece?
<desrt> yes.  2 hours and 50 minutes late.
<desrt> SO ANGRY
<desrt> i would have strongly preferred 3 hours late :)
<Laney> j-u-s-t-g-o-a-b-i-t-s-l-o-w-e-r-p-l-e-a-s-e
 * desrt is out 600â¬ on account of 10 minutes
 * Laney suspects it was the other way
<desrt> hm?
<Laney> justgoabitfaster
<desrt> ya.  indeed.
<desrt> i'm sure they made damn sure to come in under the 3 hour mark
<Laney> :)
<Laney> well welcome back anyway
<seb128> hey desrt, wb!
<desrt> thanks :)
 * desrt gets the first crackrock new API proposal of the day, decides that it's not quite crackrock enough, seeks to improve it
<GunnarHj> seb128: Hi Sebastien, do you have time to sponsor bug #1574745 (yakkety and xenial)? Would be good to get rid of that regression.
<ubot5> bug 1574745 in libreoffice-dictionaries (Ubuntu Xenial) "Missing symlinks to match locales" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1574745
<seb128> GunnarHj, hey, sorry but I don't think I know enough about those/understand the problem to be confident the changes are correct without spending some time trying to understand what you did, and I don't think I'm going to be able to allocate that slot today ... maybe try to see with the day patch pilots?
<GunnarHj> seb128: I see. No pilot on duty, as it seems. Not emergency, but me being impatient as usual. ;)
<seb128> GunnarHj, I'm going to try to have a look on monday if nobody picked up by then
<GunnarHj> seb128: Would appreciate that, thanks. Have a nice weekend!
<seb128> thanks, you too!
<willcooke> desrt, would you have time to take a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-settings-daemon/+bug/1503758 today, or early next week?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1503758 in unity-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "/usr/lib/unity-settings-daemon/unity-settings-daemon:5:XIQueryDevice:xdevice_get_dimensions:input_info_find_size_match:get_mappable_output_info:do_touchscreen_mapping" [High,Triaged]
<desrt> i looked at this briefly yesterday
<desrt> i don't really understand the problem (or the domain)
 * desrt reads the workaround patch to get a feel
<willcooke> thanks desrt
<Trevinho> seb128: hey...
<Trevinho> seb128: how are you?
<Trevinho> seb128: I was looking at the keyboard backlight thing some time ago, and I think we'd need also http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/16389938/
<seb128> Trevinho, feel free to put a mp up for it?
<seb128> Trevinho, mario verified that the <= 0 to <0 change fix the boot case
<seb128> what does your patch do?
<seb128> also why didn't you propose the change back then?
<Trevinho> however... I can't really test this here... Since in my TPs there are no ubus events fired, so, i didn't test it directly. A friend of mine with an asus laptop BTW, and fixes things
<Trevinho> seb128: well I did this some days ago, but I wanted to test it better wih him, and since I don't have a machine under my fingers with full upower support I can't do that
<seb128> ah, ok
<seb128> well I upload the upstream patch for now
<Trevinho> seb128: however.. The change basically listens for upower changes of the kbd backlight, fired when you press the keys, and then it remembers that value when you suspend
<seb128> but we can replace by a better version
<Trevinho> in this way, when you get back to your session or after idle, it goes back to the proper value
<seb128> nice
<seb128> can you add the patch to the bug?
<Trevinho> seb128: well, that's fine... i also was thinking that that = here was wrong :)
<seb128> maybe superm1 can test it
<Trevinho> seb128: ok
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> oh, and I'm good otherwise
<seb128> a bit too warm here though!
<seb128> but I'm not going to complain, tomorrow is like 12Â°C
<Trevinho> seb128: the only thing that maybe I should include, is that I should ignore the changes while suspended... Otherwise we'll save the brightness change to 0... Although this kind of change shouldn't be emitted by upower, since there's no manual intervention
<Trevinho> seb128: yeah.. Here as well we've some winter-reloaded
<willcooke> heh, same here
<Trevinho> it's still almost 20 though
<willcooke> 14 here
<Trevinho> but cloudy, windy and rainy... :-/
<Trevinho> willcooke: ah, is there a tag to get sru bugs being added to the SRU board?
<Laney> Trevinho: doesn't u-s-d already set that when it calls SetBrightness?
<Trevinho> Laney: the problem is when you change the kbd backlight using your ACPI keys
<Trevinho> Laney: in that case there's no SetBrightness call
<willcooke> Trevinho, not, just add the desktop-trello-import tag, and I will import it for you
<Trevinho> Laney: but there are events fired from ubus
<Trevinho> willcooke: will it go in the SRU board or then I shouldd copy it there?
<Laney> k
<willcooke> Trevinho, it will go direct to that board (I'll tell the script to do that)
<Trevinho> willcooke: ok
<Trevinho> willcooke: thanks
<willcooke> Trevinho, np, if you want, just paste the bug link here and I'll do it
<Trevinho> seb128, Laney: here what happens when you change the kbd backlight in fully upower aware laptops (not mine): http://i.imgur.com/stBtIUk.png
<Trevinho> I also was thinking how I could manage my case... Thinkpads doesn't notify for kbd backlight changes, since it's something at system level. So We'd need to make upower to check the actual status when doing GetBrightness (instead of using a cached value as it's doing right now).. But.. well not sure upower upstream would be happy about that. But neither the
<Trevinho> kernel module devs want to emit any key event for thinkpad_acpi (being something that will change despite userspace deamon settings, it's reasonable)
<willcooke> news just in, Design have +1d the terminal tabs styling.  So I will SRUify that bug
<willcooke> next week
<willcooke> by which I mean, explict +1 on the bug
<willcooke> Laney, going to meet Adam Hart-Davis on Sunday :)
<flocculant> willcooke: tell him he's awesome :)
<willcooke> flocculant, will do :)
<davmor2> willcooke: he's the really interesting history type bloke right glasses beard and stuff?
<flocculant> davmor2: yea
<willcooke> davmor2, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ODCBYVdxiM
<willcooke> right, swimming lessons duty.  bbl
<davmor2> nice
<seb128> willcooke, enjoy!
<seb128> calling it a week here
<seb128> have a nice w.e everyone
<seb128> with monday off here (and in some other countries as well I think?)
<willcooke> night all
<willcooke> happy weekend
<a1fa> hello, i've hit on the title bar bug again :0
<a1fa> same thing, window was open for long time (maximized), i unmaximed it, and i was no longer able to to anything with the window ;)
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-05-14
<katie1231> just installed ubuntu 16.04 and i have no unity dash launcher and top menu bar, anyone know how to fix this?
<a1fa> katie1231: did you install it over existing wm?
<a1fa> or is this a fresh install?
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-05-08
<Trevinho> so quiet this morning...
<Trevinho> your morning :-)
<oSoMoN> good morning!
<Laney> hey
<willcooke> morning Laney
<oSoMoN> hi Laney, willcooke
<Laney> hey willcooke
<Laney> good trip back?
<Laney> hi oSoMoN
<willcooke> morning oSoMoN
<Laney> how are you?
<davmor2> Morning all
<Laney> so glad for tab completion with your nick
<oSoMoN> Iâm good, thanks :)
<willcooke> Laney, uneventful.  I got upgraded on the way there becuase my TV was broken.  Alas not on the way back.
<Laney> can't win 'em all
<Laney> hey davmor2
 * oSoMoN makes a note to complain next time I travel and the TV is broken
<oSoMoN> hey davmor2
<duflu> Morning UK
<duflu> and Europe
<willcooke> hey davmor2 & duflu
<duflu> willcooke: Silly question: Is there any reason for having Pulse at all other than mixing and per-app volumne? Seems like a poor choice if it's those features vs decades of bugs
<duflu> *volume
<willcooke> duflu, afaik it does some software sample rate conversions as well, but that might well be a hangover from the bad old days.
<duflu> willcooke: Sounds trivial. I just wonder why must we bother ourselves with years of pain and bugs for such a tiny feature gap pulse is filling...
<willcooke> iiinteresting
 * willcooke reads up 
<duflu> I mean, by now any software project that age should be perfect, or should be dead
<willcooke> Looking at the Pulse pages here https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/PulseAudio/About/
<willcooke> Software mixing - I expect ALSA handles that just fine now
<willcooke> Network - dont think anyone uses this by default
<willcooke> API abstraction - we only use ALSA, so !care
<duflu> Heh. I did around 1997
<willcooke> Hardware abstraction - which it says boils down to per app volume... which is... not super exciting
<willcooke> Does GStreamer rely on Pulse at all?
<willcooke> duflu, so I can't see any immediate concerns, but let's socialise it a bit and see if anyone has any strong feelings.  I don't know enough to make a call.
<willcooke> Laney, any thoughts on Pulse?
<duflu> willcooke: Yeah no problem, me neither. Just started bug bashing but I had to wonder why complicate the architecture in the first place...
<willcooke> My expectation is that it made sense at the time, and we never revisited
<duflu> I'm wondering if it's now something like "because that's what the applets use exclusively"
<Laney> What's the actual problem?
<willcooke> Just something else to maintain
<dednick> it's pulse doing the output switching?
<dednick> ie, plug in hdmi, earphones
<dednick> *doing it badly*
<Laney> Feels like a party like it's 2007 Linux hatefest
<dednick> :) i've been having issues with it running on gnome. Seemed to work better with u7 for some reason.
<dednick> loosing all sound sometimes. seems to be getting confused when switching outputs.
<willcooke> Laney, I don't think so, not really. More a case of a critical look at a component.  It makes sense to review it, even if that decision is "keep it and fix bugs".
<dednick> plug earphones in/out again and it starts to work.
<duflu> Laney, to be fair I've got my back up about non-Ubuntu problems today. But it's still an objective question: Does the functionality provided outweigh the cost/pain of maintenance?
<Laney> duflu: I think we don't know what the functionality is, what the cost is, or what the pain is, or even really what the bugs are.
<duflu> Laney: Fair point. I'm only about 5% through the Pulse bug list and will learn more. Was just hoping someone might know off the top of their head
<Laney> Or what kind of maintenance costs having a different stack from the rest will incur.
<Laney> <upstream> Oh, you're on Ubuntu? They don't have pulse so that's probably your bug. BYE!
<Laney> Feeling a bit grumpy this morning, sorry for being short
<willcooke> "Looks like someone's got a case of the Mondays"
<willcooke> *hugs*
<duflu> Laney, I wish you a pleasant Monday and pleasant week.
<davmor2> willcooke: I'm still suffering from friday
<duflu> Sounds like an excellent Friday
<willcooke> davmor2, that sucks man.  I'm really sorry. :(
<duflu> ?
<Trevinho> ah hey Laney, willcooke, oSoMoN e duflu
<Trevinho> :)
<duflu> Evening Trevinho
<duflu> Wouldn't it be great to sprint in Asia, right after you get home? :)
<Trevinho> evening... it's sitll afternoon :-P
<duflu> Getting darkish, so I called it
<Trevinho> yeah... let's do it here..
<Trevinho> It's cheap :)
<Laney> hey Trevinho
<Trevinho> hey Laney...
<Trevinho> Laney: speaking of the devil... Would you mind to give a look to these debdiff https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-software/+bug/1689239 ?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1689239 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "Headerbar used as toolbars in unity are missing proper css classes" [High,In progress]
<Trevinho> Or i'd break things apps soon once my updated themes will be there...
<duflu> Hmm, not just dark but also noisy frogs telling me it's night time
<duflu> Good night
<jbicha> Trevinho: hi, yes I saw the bug but hadn't gotten to it yet
<Trevinho> jbicha: ok, good
<jbicha> if I understand you correctly, your patches are to support a future change to ubuntu-themes?
<willcooke> jbicha, re: webapp - I've not looked properly yet - but does your suggestion handle the geo-specific stores, like if I run it here in the UK, I get the .co.uk version, in the States I get the .com version etc?
<jbicha> willcooke: that's up to the website so the answer should be yes
<jbicha> willcooke: for instance, the BBC News app gives me bbcnews.com instead of bbcnews.co.uk
<willcooke> Humm, I think that didnt work properly for some reason.  I'll look at what we used to do and check
<willcooke> Maybe we have different referral codes depending on which store you hit.
<jbicha> just a blind guess, but if you have to do stuff like that, maybe you would need to patch webkit directly?
<willcooke> Or a wrapper which works out what's what and launches the correct site - probably easier than patching webkit :)
<jbicha> maybe
<willcooke> yeah, we have different codes depending on which site is launched:  http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~webapps/libunity-webapps/trunk/view/head:/src/runner/unity-webapps-runner-amazon.c
<willcooke> we could re-use that
<Laney> Trevinho: what updated theme?
<Laney> are you going to SRU these fixes?
<Trevinho> Laney: I'm fixing ambiance/radiance to work properly in GS (keeping unity compatibility)
<Laney> Okay
<Laney> Well I'm not sure it's sensible for us to keep carrying UI patches for Unity in applications
<jbicha> â¦particularly because we never got around to patching many GNOME apps so it's still going to be inconsistent
<Laney> Guess it's okay to update existing patches though
<willcooke> I spoke to the design team last week about the possibility of a new theme, I need to follow up with them this week and find out if that's going to be possible this cycle.  In the meantime though getting Amb/Rad generally working in G-Shell is worth doing.  And as Laney said, I dont think keeping U7 working perfectly should be a priority.  Getting them working in G-Shell first should be the priority
 * Laney nods willcooke 
<Trevinho> willcooke: sure... That's what I'm doing in fact. Just I prefer not breaking things for unity too... As it's just easy changes to apply
<Trevinho> (to the patches we already carry)
<flocculant> willcooke: jfyi - I had to fiddle with pulseaudio - finally got around to looking into why the dac always said 44.1kHz, then I stopped that and went to alsa so it doesn't muck about at all
<willcooke> Trevinho, ack, thanks
<Trevinho> Laney: do we have a list of app for which we did patches to remove headerbar?
<Laney> doubtful
<jbicha> Trevinho: epiphany is another one
<Trevinho> jbicha: mh, ok... fix is easy, when we carry patches... it's just to update this
<Trevinho> jbicha: I currently updated only the default installed ones...
<jbicha> eog & evince
<Laney> xnox: so how did you make that list?
<xnox> Laney, multiple ways. 1) I used the demote email, from when unity8-desktop-session was demoted from main to universe 2) then I also used http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/ubuntu-touch.artful/touch.sources (combined with touch-core.sources, touch-*.sources, sorted and uniquified)
<xnox> then i tool all of those source packages and filtered them, to exclude things that are seeded anywhere.
<xnox> and then did a check to see if a package exists in debian, and filtered that out as "to sync"
<xnox> e.g. we have forked android-tools bits, which we should now sync from debian.
<xnox> i think i also looked through it manually, to remove things that are generic.
<xnox> ...
<xnox> it's mostly complete, apart from a few things that got seeded in other distros, and does not touch anything that is unity7 related (as all of that is still seeded in ubuntu-desktop)
<Laney> xnox: ok, commented, thanks
 * Laney goes to eat a burrito
<xnox> *nom* *nom*
<willcooke> awh man
<willcooke> I would also like a burrito
<xnox> Laney, nice review =)
 * xnox thought watershed was only used by upstart jobs, will check
<Laney> xnox: while read pkg; do chdist apt-cache artful-amd64 showsrc $pkg; done < removals-take-1.txt  | grep-dctrl -sPackage,Version .
<Laney> willcooke: it's just a supermarket one, don't be too sad :P
<xnox> nice =)
<willcooke> ah, right.  In which case, be lucky.
<xnox> Laney, i did ask before, but is there at all any way to grep autopkgtest dependencies?
<Laney> afraid not
<Laney> wait
<Laney> xnox: You can look at Testsuite-Triggers
<xnox> Testsuite-Triggers? where is that?
<Laney> in the .dsc
<Laney> therefore in Sources.gz
<Laney> Might not be there for things which haven't been uploaded in ages or whatever, but should be good enough
<xnox> nice... can we teach reverse-depends about it?
<Laney> probably
<Laney> ooh, firefox formats json
<Laney> anyway, burrito: back shortly
<zzarr> hello! is there any way to install Ubuntu on a x86 based Android tablet? (I have an ASUS Zenpad 10 Z300C / P023)
<willcooke> dinner, bbl
<Sweetshark> https://opensource.googleblog.com/2017/05/oss-fuzz-five-months-later-and.html <- yo guys.
<willcooke> Thanks Sweetshark, much appreciated
<willcooke> I can't grok their reports at all.  There doesn't seem to be a link back to a fix at LO
<Sweetshark> willcooke: They just linked to the list of issues: https://bugs.chromium.org/p/oss-fuzz/issues/list?can=1&q=Proj%3Dlibreoffice+Type%3DBug-Security+status%3ANew%2CAccepted%2CFixed%2CVerified&colspec=ID+Type+Component+Status+Proj+Reported+Owner+Summary&cells=ids
<willcooke> Sweetshark, right, but each of those issues is unreadable to me
<willcooke> It says "It's fixed" but doesnt provide any links to where it's fixed afaict
<oSoMoN> Â« ClusterFuzz has detected this issue as fixed in range 201612212121:201612220925. Â»
<oSoMoN> it gives a window in which the fix was committed upstream, IÂ guess?
<oSoMoN> a link to an upstream commit would be useful indeed
<Sweetshark> oSoMoN: oss-fuzz just autosdetects "build it a day later. issue was gone", there is little human interaction in oss-fuzz there ...
<willcooke> ah, I see
<Sweetshark> FWIW, I dont think libreoffice is the only thing to worry about (or even the most to worry about). I mean: 10 FreeType2 issues, 17 FFmpeg issues, 10 GnuTLS, 25 PCRE2? each of those are use by half the world.
<Sweetshark> s/use/used/
<willcooke> heh - it's good practice at least :)
<Trevinho> Laney: this is what I meant https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/ubuntu-themes/gs-decorations-fixes/+merge/323760
<Trevinho> and.... bed time now
<willcooke> night all
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-05-09
<duflu> Trevinho, are you on the east side of the island?
<Trevinho> duflu: nope, center...
<Trevinho> duflu: ubud
<Trevinho> well a little east tho
<Trevinho> duflu: why?
<duflu> Trevinho, just heard an Australian was murdered in his villa there
<Trevinho> oh
<duflu> So, always be careful, I guess
<Trevinho> Ah, sanur... Well yeah I know south areas are a little more dangerous
<Trevinho> here is considered safe, but well...
<duflu> Also, happy Tuesday, Trevinho
<duflu> For some
<Trevinho> hehe, happy Tue to you too duflu
<duflu> Hmm, although Launchpad is having one of its timeout times
<Laney> morning
<willcooke> morning all
<oSoMoN> good morning
<didrocks> hey desktopers
<duflu> Morning didrocks, oSoMoN, willcooke, Laney
<oSoMoN> good afternoon duflu
<andyrock> morning
<Trevinho> morning didrocks, oSoMoN, willcooke and Laney
<Trevinho> and andyrock :)
<allison> hi all :)
<Trevinho> hi allison
<allison> back from paradise?
<Trevinho> Laney: are you going to review the theme changes or someone else will? :)
<duflu> Hi allison
<Laney> Trevinho: you requested some specific reviewers...
 * Laney nods allison 
<duflu> Does anyone know the status of i386? Is that going away still?
<Laney> where in the world are you?
<duflu> netcologne.de it would seem
<Trevinho> Laney: yeah, cause they asked for that, but... Not sure who can finally approve.
<Laney> Trevinho: Ken can ;-)
<Laney> (any core-dev)
<Trevinho> ok, ok
<Laney> :not rules are confusing
 * Laney has been bitten by those in the past
<Trevinho> well, sometimes it's the only way to avoid a rule to apply tho
<Trevinho> and at least are explicit
<Laney> if possible I like to provide another rule that overrides the style in the case you want to not apply to
<Laney> anyways
<Laney> I'll review if they want me to
<Trevinho> Laney: if you've better options, sure...
<Trevinho> Laney: but for the :not(.unity-csd) i'd prefer to keep them as they're more explicit to me
<Trevinho> adwaita is also full of :not's
<Laney> you're cleverer than me so it's probably right :P
<Laney> I kept making rules apply in the wrong cases when trying to use not
<Trevinho> I'm not really... So really, if you have suggestions, please do.
<Trevinho> I also prefer not to reapeat the same definitions tho
<Laney> it was usually - find the thing you're overriding with this rule, and add a more explicit selector so that the :not-ed thing still takes that one
<Laney> we can probably try your thing
<Trevinho> Laney: the :not(headerbar) around are all based on adwaita, so i'm quite confident with them
<Trevinho> the other not's I've added are :not(.unity-csd) and :not(.toolbar-mode) which are unity-only classes.
<Trevinho> The only thing i don't like in the result is that I can't theme properly the SSD shadows, but it's a lack of gnome itself
<duflu> Trevinho, and I had dreams of proper 3D shadows that merge properly... no more
<Trevinho> duflu: like?
<duflu> Trevinho, like nothing you've seen before... almost. Like proper shadow merging for adjacent windows (not just windows and the panel)
<duflu> That dream was already shattered by Unity8
<Trevinho> ah... Right
<Trevinho> duflu: yeah... and CSD of course doesn't help for that.
<duflu> Trevinho, yeah which is why I kept pushing the Gnome guys for years: "You can have CSD so long as you remove shadows"
<duflu> Anyway, Gnome wins
<Trevinho> at least we've been able to keep the shadows our property in unity7 + CSD gnome apps...
<Trevinho> not to mention that all these shadows, rebuilt for every widgets aren't exactly efficient.
<Trevinho> They indeed look nice, but... In 7 we had a ~30px texture shared across all the windows.
<Trevinho> generate once at theme change and stop.
<duflu> 30 sounds small for HiDPI
<duflu> Unless GL_LINEAR...
<Trevinho> well yeah... It was scaled of course... it was dependent on theme and scaling
<duflu> I logged a bug where U7 panel uses GL_NEAREST when scaling its shadow
<duflu> (which is a problem for scale >= 2.0)
<Trevinho> mh...
<Trevinho> patch welcome :-D
<duflu> I would if I got bored enough and U7 lived that long
<Trevinho> panel is a bit different tho... I think it still rely on your old code, a part some adjustments.
<Trevinho> it won't ever die :-D
<duflu> \o/  Ubuntu desktop still contains duflu-code
<duflu> Duflu code never dies. It just smells like it
<duflu> Although if I recall the shadow merging logic, that's somewhat accurate
<duflu> I'm still impressed it looks right
<duflu> Alright, enough
<duflu> Good night
<Trevinho> duflu: have a good one
<GunnarHj> willcooke: Hi Will, has there been any discussions yet about advanced input methods in 17.10 in the light of the fact that g-c-c does not support Fcitx?
<willcooke> Hi GunnarHj - not yet, but I'll add it to the list.  You want to start a thread on the ML?
<willcooke> (desktop mailing list that is)
<GunnarHj> willcooke: Yeah, in that case I'll post to the list.
<willcooke> thanks GunnarHj
<zzarr> hello!
<zzarr> I have an ASUS Zenpad Z300C (x86/Android) tablet, I wish to run desktop Ubuntu on it
<zzarr> I have downloaded the source for the kernel for it, is it possible to build an Ubuntu image and launch it using fastboot?
 * willcooke flexes
<jbicha> \o
 * allison itches
<willcooke> :)
<qengho> WAT?
<willcooke> The gang's all here!
<allison> attente: are you in hamilton or toronto?
<willcooke> #startmeeting Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-05-09
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue May  9 15:30:35 2017 UTC.  The chair is willcooke. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-05-09 | Current topic:
<willcooke> Roll call: andyrock, dgadomski (out), jbicha, kenvandine, laney, oSoMoN, seb128, tkamppeter (out), trevinho, robert_ancell (out)
<andyrock> o/
<oSoMoN> ðµ/
<Trevinho> o/
 * kenvandine waves
<jbicha> o/
<allison> o/
<Laney> hi
<willcooke> Let's start with andyrock
<willcooke> #topic andyrock
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-05-09 | Current topic: andyrock
<andyrock> hey all
<andyrock> so I've been working to clean up the cr+mir branches to pass them to the mir-team
<andyrock> so they can take the work done until know
<andyrock> eow
<willcooke> thanks andyrock
<willcooke> #topic dgadomski
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-05-09 | Current topic: dgadomski
<willcooke> At a sprint
<willcooke> #topic jbicha
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-05-09 | Current topic: jbicha
<jbicha> gnome-terminal 3.24 with pcre2 commits reverted to postpone the pcre2 MIR
<jbicha> Enabled build tests for mutter, clutter (needed for MIRs)
<jbicha> Enabled autopkgtest for gnome-settings-daemon as a workaround for https://bugzilla.gnome.org/782170
<ubot5> Gnome bug 782170 in color "color: build test requires compiled schemas" [Normal,New]
<jbicha> GunnarHJ did initial Ubuntu Docs merge for GNOME transition. I sponsored and helped move it along.
<jbicha> Re-implemented a basic Amazon webapp using Epiphany (LP: #1688627) and filed its MIR. Security is not thrilled with maintaining webkit2gtk so I think this depends on how badly we need this feature.
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1688627 in webapps-applications (Ubuntu Artful) "Amazon web app needs an implemetation that does not require webbrowser app" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1688627
<jbicha> Started https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JeremyBicha/CoreDevApplication Endorsements appreciated!
<jbicha> EOF
<willcooke> desktoppers: please help with Core Dev application ^
<willcooke> thanks jbicha
<willcooke> #topic kenvandine
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-05-09 | Current topic: kenvandine
<kenvandine> * Setup xenial, yakkety and zesty VMs for testing
<kenvandine> * Installed artful in a VM
<kenvandine> * Updated chrome-gnome-shell to latest upstream and uploaded SRUs for supported series
<kenvandine> * Looking at snapping some GNOME apps
<kenvandine> * Backported a network-manager-applet fix to 1.4 and 1.2.  Still need to test it.
<kenvandine> * MIR status, still waiting on security reviews for mozjs38 and gjs
<kenvandine> EOF
<willcooke> thanks kenvandine
<willcooke> #topic Laney
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-05-09 | Current topic: Laney
<allison> lol
<allison> no smoking!
<Laney> â¢ Helped to arrange travel for GUADEC for me and the others
<Laney> â¢ Reviewed clutter-1.0 for jb_icha & uploaded to exp
<Laney> â¢ Finished updating gnome-software packaging for meson/exp
<Laney> â Pushed some build fixes upstream
<Laney> â¢ Started to test gnome-software with PK properly, filed / worked on some fixes
<Laney> â¢ Worked on reimplementaion of Amazon launcher to remove webapps stuff
<Laney> â¢ New glib 2.35.1
<Laney> â¢ Reviewed U8 removals from x_nox
<Laney> ð­
<willcooke> :)
<willcooke> thanks Laney
<willcooke> #topic oSoMoN
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-05-09 | Current topic: oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> â¢ updated chromium stable to 58.0.3029.96, security team pushed to security and updates pockets for all supported series (trusty, xenial, yakkety, zesty)
<oSoMoN> â¢ updated chromium beta to 59.0.3071.36 in PPA
<oSoMoN> â¢ updated chromium dev to 60.0.3088.3 in PPA (fails to build on yakkety arm64, gcc OOM, but not to be worried about since yakkety will be EOL before Cr 60 is released)
<oSoMoN> â¢ looked into desktop file translations for chromium and figured out what needs to happen to update the template and the translations, hope to implement in the near future (prerequisite for bug #1668730)
<ubot5> bug 1668730 in chromium-browser (Ubuntu) "Tweak .desktop Actions for more consistency" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1668730
<oSoMoN> â¢ trying to wrap my head around libreoffice packaging (both ubuntu packages and snap), reached out to r_icotz and to security team
<oSoMoN> EOF
<willcooke> thanks oSoMoN
<willcooke> #topic tkamppeter
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-05-09 | Current topic: tkamppeter
<willcooke> - OpenPrinting Summit 2017: Virtual/phone meeting on Tue - Thu. Outcomes and plans:
<willcooke>   o Mopria support: Mopria is based on the PCLm format, a subset of PDF (readable with PDF reader) only containing raster images of the pages, nothing to do with PCL. Got hint on were to find specs on the Summit, found the specs, some free software sample code, talked with developers of PDF filters about how to implement in cups-filters
<willcooke>   o IPP Scanning (driverless scanning), IPP System Service (replacement for printer web admin interface): Driverless support for MF devices, subject for GSoC 2018.
<willcooke>   o WiFi Direct Print: Printer discovery via WiFi, find out how to integrate smoothly.
<willcooke>   o IPP 3D Printing: Reach out to LibreCAD and similar projects
<willcooke>   o cups-browsed: Fit to new CUPS concepts: Use CUPS local (temporary) queues, use new CUPS APIs to get lists of existing print queues and printer capabilities/options from servers
<willcooke> - OpenPrinting Summit 2018: Most probably a physical meeting again, April 24 - 26, 2018 in Sunnyvale (probably at Apple)
<willcooke> - Google Summer of Code 2017: Student projects got officially announced by Google. No conflicts or issues, so there are 6 students on the print dialog and 1 student on cups-filters (print filled PDF forms).
<willcooke> - cups: Synced 2.2.3 from Debian
<willcooke> - cups-filters: Upstream-added build-time option to make cups-browsed set up driverless network printers by default, do make syncing cups-filters with Debian easier.
<willcooke> - Bugs.
<willcooke> #topic Trevinho
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-05-09 | Current topic: Trevinho
<willcooke> News!
<willcooke> So you know Dave got done over?
<Trevinho> Sorry, my connection lost...
<willcooke> er, wrong channel, sorry :)
<willcooke> Trevinho, carry on
<Trevinho> Â· Fixed ubuntu themes to work in GS
<Trevinho> Â· Some snapcraft-preload fixes
<Trevinho> Â· Discussing about floating scale in GS
<Trevinho>  /EOF
<willcooke> thanks Trevinho
<willcooke> #topic robert_ancell
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-05-09 | Current topic: robert_ancell
<willcooke> - Initial work on LightDM + GNOME Shell
<willcooke> - SRU regression in snap titles in GNOME Software
<willcooke> - Complete pending SRUs
<willcooke> - GNOME Software bug triage
<willcooke> - Worked on updated design for Simple Scan with GNOME designers
<willcooke> - Booked for GUADEC
<willcooke> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-05-09 | Current topic: AOB
<willcooke> Anyone got any other news?
<allison> hi!
<allison> * went for some nice hikes
<allison> * spent some days in parks
<allison> * visited friends in toronto and family in hamilton
<allison> * went to new orleans
<allison> * had a very nice birthday
<allison> * am now back in kÃ¶ln
<allison> (end of month)
<willcooke> Yay!
<kenvandine> allison, sounds awesome!
<allison> it was.  thanks :D
<jbicha> :)
<willcooke> thanks all, wrapping
<willcooke> #endmeeeting
 * Laney eyes the bot
<jbicha> maybe the bot went on a smoke break?
<willcooke> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue May  9 15:46:27 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2017/ubuntu-desktop.2017-05-09-15.30.moin.txt
<willcooke> ?!
<willcooke> oh, I can't type
<allison> meeeeting
<willcooke> night all o/
<oSoMoN> good evening
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-05-10
<pitti> Good morning, you brave Ubuntu desktop hackers!
<duflu> Morning pitti. How goes?
<pitti> duflu: very well, thanks! how about yourself?
<duflu> pitti: Yes, good thanks
<didrocks> hey pitti, duflu!
<didrocks> pitti: nice blog post yesterday :)
<pitti> bonjour didrocks ! Ã§a va ?
<pitti> didrocks: ah, tu as le vu sur le planet, trÃ¨s bien :)
<duflu> G'day didrocks
<didrocks> pitti: Ã§a va, et toi ? Finalement pas de surprise ici pendant les Ã©lections
<didrocks> (tant mieux ;))
<pitti> didrocks: indeed, we were *very* relieved!
<pitti> en marche, Europe :)
<didrocks> pitti: we still need to have the party being #1 in the legislative elections so that he can do what he promised :p
<didrocks> so, 6 more weeks of fun
<didrocks> (btw, took some time to realize that "En Marche" was for "Emmanuel Macron")
<pitti> didrocks: yeah, I realized a few months ago, very clever
<oSoMoN> good morning everyone
<didrocks> hey oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks!
<willcooke> morning all
<Laney> hi ho
<willcooke> sunshine today
<willcooke> still cold though
<pitti> hey willcooke, hello Laney, how are you?
<willcooke> Hey pitti!
<pitti> indeed, spring is back at last
<Laney> forget the sun
<Laney> We Want Rain!
<Laney> hey pitti
<Laney> how are you?
<willcooke> A bit of rain would be good here, the new grass is looking sad
<pitti> Laney: very well, thanks!
<pitti> I was looking at https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-backporters/+members this morning and realized that there are essentially no active members any more, except Laney
<Laney> the allotment takes like 20 watering cans
<Laney> pitti: if you want to join to process your own stuff, feel free
<pitti> Laney: oh, is it that dry already again?
<didrocks> Good morning england!
<willcooke> hey didrocks!
<Laney> pitti: just hasn't really rained for weeks
<Laney> hey didrocks
<Laney> you good?
<didrocks> I'm great, thanks! Yourself?
<Laney> pitti: I think micahg is basically the "leader" of backports atm
<pitti> Laney: wow, that sounds backwards; UK dry, DE wet for two weeks
<pitti> Laney: ah, thanks; I'll contact him
<Laney> (such as there is one)
<Laney> didrocks: doing goooooooooooood
 * sil2100 wanted to help out the backporters team
<sil2100> Had a quick chat with micahg and we'll set up some time next week for me to learn the ropes
<Laney> nice
<Laney> we've done BSPs on the queues in the past too
<Laney> they help in the moment but it was never sustained
<Laney> maybe this time it'll stick, but I think the process ought to be fixed really
<sil2100> Is it much different from the SRU process? I guess with big backports it's just more code to review
<sil2100> Procedure-wise that is
<Laney> SRUs don't require someone to test every single reverse dependency explicitly
<Laney> So actually they are easier
<Laney> For big packages
<pitti> but backports of leaf packages shoudl actually be simple
<pitti> if the  backporter can demonstrate that they build and work in the target release, it's just a formality, no?
<pitti> and leaf packages are the main focus of backports after all
<Laney> Not if you need to update a build-dep for the leaf package you want to update.
<Laney> And even in the leaf case the backporters team should probably just get out of the way until the thing lands in the queue.
<pitti> oh, do our builders enable -backports by default? I thought that had a Priority that made it not getting used by default, and you have to explicitly choose it by either a versioned  build dep or -t foo-backports
<Laney> backports builds get all backports
<pitti> certainly better for backports to build against -updates only by default, and require -backports build deps to be done explicitly in d/control
<pitti> uh, that does complicate the matter a lot indeed
<Laney> At least back then the buildds didn't have a good enough resolver to be able to deal with that
<Laney> It was just apt-get install [list of packages], ..., check that they are all at the right versions and bail if not
<Laney> which broke with NotAutomatic and versioned dependencies
 * duflu falls off chair
<flexiondotorg> Morning desktopers
<flexiondotorg> Laney I was reading LP: #1688627
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1688627 in webapps-applications (Ubuntu Artful) "Amazon web app needs an implementation that does not require webbrowser-app" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1688627
<flexiondotorg> With a little coercing it is possible to run web apps with Firefox.
<willcooke> No, Firefox doesnt have a webapp mode
<flexiondotorg> No specifically but it is possible to create a specific profile and coerce Firefox to use it, including dropping all the Firefox chrome.
<flexiondotorg> So effectively isolating webapps to their own profiles.
<willcooke> dunno, using a different profile feels a but clunky to me
<willcooke> also, I /think/ I like the idea of having it open the normal browser - since all of your Amazon session would already be available.  But that can equally be seen as a bad thing
<willcooke> But, this is a good opportunity to ship it as a snap, in Electron
<Laney> 'it'?
<Laney> I'm not proposing to do things with profiles
<Laney> If someone wants to go and work on some other awesome implementation, go nuts
<willcooke> it - Amazon web app
<Laney> what kind of web app?
<oSoMoN> flexiondotorg, I had the same idea and commented on the bug
<Laney> Right, well, lots of people are interested, so go and take this task off my hands.
<oSoMoN> willcooke, a snap wouldnât be able to share existing amazon sessions with the browser though
<Laney> I thought it would be okay to just do something simple. But if you want to work on a complicated nice thing, go for it.
<willcooke> oSoMoN, that's the same for the old Amazon web app though.  And I dont know if thats good or bad
<willcooke> I'm in favour of something simple here as well
<oSoMoN> Laney, for the record Iâm in favour of a simple solution as well, with minimal maintenance work
<oSoMoN> in that regard using the default browser canât be beaten
<Laney> oSoMoN: Cool
<Laney> I guess if a webapp mode fell in our laps we'd use it, but I don't think we want to do the work to create one out of what Firefox currently has
<chrisccoulson> Please don't use a separate profile in Firefox. This feature has long been likely to disappear, is horribly broken, and a constant source of bugs because people don't really understand it
 * oSoMoN goes and deletes his comment on the bug report
<Laney> :D
<willcooke> Laney, do I need to be on 17.10 for your Python script?
<chrisccoulson> If you want to launch a second instance of Firefox with a separate profile, you have to pass the -no-remote option, otherwise it will just open in the running instance
<chrisccoulson> -no-remote breaks single instance
<chrisccoulson> So please don't do that
<willcooke> :)
<Laney> willcooke: Shouldn't need to be.
<Laney> I only really tested it on my desktop and in a container with no network
<Laney> My list of deps could be insufficient
 * willcooke installs random libs
<willcooke> I think I need gir1.2-geocodeglib-2.0
<willcooke> and only 1.0 is in 16.04
<Laney> ok
<willcooke> time to upgrade
<Laney> that could be correct
<willcooke> nw
<willcooke> I'll update my other machine
<Laney> meh
<Laney> why is ubiquity.desktop 'untrusted' in the latest daily?
<willcooke> Re WebApps stuff generally - I've got a meeting in London on Friday with design, I'll see if they have a strong feeling one way or the other.  If not, I propose with go with using the users $DEFAULT_BROWSER
<oSoMoN> seconded, if design is not against it
<flexiondotorg> chrisccoulson Thanks for the info about -no-remote. Looks like coercing Firefox to wrap a website is not a good idea after all :-)
<Laney> xnox: https://paste.ubuntu.com/24548482/ quick review?
<jbicha> Laney: could you file a bug for the ubiquity launcher?
<Laney> Why?
<jbicha> that's a nautilus 3.24 security feature, it has to be marked as trusted in the user's gvfs database
<jbicha> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-hardened/2017-April/000910.html
<jbicha> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-hardened/2017-May/
<jbicha> so maybe we can fix that in a casper script?
<Laney> I just linked a patch which fixes it in the live session
<jbicha> oh, cool
<jbicha> but that will do it for every launcher in the live user's Desktop/ ? I don't think we want that
<Laney> No.
<jbicha> ok, I see the context now, sorry about that
<Laney> for file in /usr/share/applications/ubiquity.desktop /usr/share/applications/kde4/ubiquity-kdeui.desktop; do
<Laney> is it intentional that ubuntu-gnome doesn't show desktop icons?
<jbicha> yes, it's intentional for Ubuntu GNOME 17.04 to match the upstream GNOME default with no desktop icons
<Laney> ok
<Laney> it's not very discoverable to launch Ubiquity IMO
<jbicha> yes
<jbicha> Fedora uses a welcome screen in the real live session like this: https://bicha.net/i/fedora-live-welcome.png
<Laney> if you try, can you then install?
<jbicha> yes, the fine print at the bottom of the welcome window says how (basically like Ubuntu GNOME does it)
<Laney> k
<jbicha> Ubuntu doesn't have the fine print to let you know that you can still Install if you choose Try from the Try/Install screen
<Laney> presumably it's considered to be discoverable enough on the desktop
<czajkowski> c
<Laney> a cockatrice
 * Laney screams
<xnox> Laney, to be honest, we must ship dock 2 laucher extension thing; make it visible; make it pop in-out across all of the left hand side (not just top left corner)
<xnox> replace the 3x3 dot matrix icon, with the ubuntu logo, etc.
<xnox> Laney, the patch looks good.
<Laney> thx
<jbicha> xnox: if you can get concensus from the Desktop Team for something like Dash to Dock by default, then I think we're supposed to try to work with GNOME to get that option officially supported
<jbicha> to support Mark's vision of a vanilla GNOME desktop
<xnox> jbicha, back in the days of shipping gnome as the default desktop. We did do improvements and changes to defaults to make gnome usable, within what is allowable with pure configs. For example, I think we will need to pick and choose which extensions we want to enable and ship them.
<xnox> engaging with upstream, yes. But for many things on how default desktop behaves has been left open-ended with the extensions framework.
<Trevinho> Laney: since I got some reviews, would you still check the themes or is it fine if I approve and land that?
<Trevinho> oh... reading my mind?
<Trevinho> :-D
<jbicha> xnox: dash to dock is a major UI change from upstream GNOME's vision
<Trevinho> Laney: I've a bileto ppa ready if you mind
<Laney> I know
 * Laney saw it
<xnox> jbicha, my understanding of Mark's comments was "no I am not going to pay to fork and maintain GNOME, or keep my design team to redesign Shell upstream"
<Trevinho> ah ok :)
<jbicha> xnox: right, which was my next point; if you don't get the dock option into GNOME, then Ubuntu is left scrambling to keep it working if GNOME breaks stuff that our implemenation depended on
<xnox> jbicha, my actual problem with "activities" is that it is not discoverable at all for mouse based users. I guess many Shell users use the keyboard shortcut to invoke it, but i am a mouse person. and revealing activites all along the left edge would be a lot nicer than just the corner.
<xnox> and there should be some visual clues about it. E.g. it could be sticking out abit / peaking from the side/corner when the desktop is empty.
<jbicha> for instance, there's a proposal in GNOME to kill the 'dash' (that's the left sidebar in GNOME's Activities Overview), but Dash to Dock currently depends on that and extends it
<xnox> jbicha, yeah, that. i noticed that all of the extensions APIs are marked as untable.
<xnox> jbicha, is there any path to stabilise extensions API? or is it the case of "you are either upstream extension" or "you will bit rot"?
<jbicha> my understanding is that extensions just monkey patch GNOME Shell's JavaScript
<xnox> =/
<jbicha> xnox: you don't have to convince me of the value of a left dock by default; I've tried arguing for it; it's the rest of the Desktop Team that you'll need to convince :)
<Trevinho> Laney: instead if you want to land the debdiffs I've done, it would be nice.... I guess there's not really much to check in there.
<Laney> link?
<Laney> maybe after lunch
<willcooke> @ extensions - kenvandine is going to be doing some work to reach out to the community and see what they would like, and then we can do a in-depth review of the options, check how well they are supported, how active they are etc.  And then we can all make a data-based decision.  jbicha how does that sit with you?
<meetingology> willcooke: Error: "extensions" is not a valid command.
<jbicha> personally, I don't necessary need the dock (but it's useful enough I might not disable it), but I think it's a *big* help for other people
<jbicha> willcooke: I think we should try to ship as few extensions as possible to get a good user experience
<kenvandine> indeed
<jbicha> if you start asking everyone for opinions, you'll get a list of a dozen or more before long
<kenvandine> a few could improve the experience for new users, but we don't want to go crazy
<willcooke> Well, I think we'll start with a shorter list than "everything", and then we can use that as the basis for further research
<kenvandine> the key will be getting a score of usefulnness/importance for a few select, well maintained extensions
<kenvandine> not ask people to list their favorite extensions
<jbicha> for me, it's basically just Dash to Dockâ¦
<kenvandine> that is top of my list
<kenvandine> and topicons
<jbicha> plus upstream's legacy tray in the bottom left is a poor experience, especially for touch but I think GNOME might be convinced about that without needing an extension to tweak that
<jbicha> yes, that's topicons ^
<kenvandine> jbicha, i also like the better volume extension.  that should just get merged into gnome-shell imo
<kenvandine> makes the sound indicator behave like it did in unity with the mouse wheel, etc
<kenvandine> i'll probably propose a patch upstream adding that
<kenvandine> doubt that'll get resistance
<jbicha> yes, I think upstream is a lot happier with patches :)
<oSoMoN> dash to dock is also top of my personal list, FWIW
<chrisccoulson> willcooke, if you're meeting with design - is it possible to get some design input for the startpage?
<gQuigs> chrisccoulson: please add "Restore Previous Session" if you can :)
<jbicha> Laney: are we good with landing the patches from LP: #1689239 in artful now?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1689239 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "Headerbar used as toolbars in unity are missing proper css classes" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1689239
<willcooke> chrisccoulson, ah yes, sorry that had slipped my mind.  I think it will be easy to get agreement to update it per the Firefox standard.  Leave it with me
<Laney> jbicha: If they're updating existing patches or upstream already, go for it
<chatter29> hey guys
<chatter29> allah is doing
<chatter29> sun is not doing allah is doing
<chatter29> to accept Islam say that i bear witness that there is no deity worthy of worship except Allah and Muhammad peace be upon him is his slave and messenger
<Laney> srsly
<dobey> man i hate that guy
<ogra_> FSVO "guy"
<dobey> ogra_: acronym?
<ogra_> for some value of
<dobey> ogra_: well, given the extreme views on rights of women by the kinds of muslims who would go around in random irc channels constantly to promote it, would say it's pretty clear. :)
<ogra_> dobey, i was referring to the fact that it is a bot, not a guy ;)
<dobey> ogra_: i'm not sure it's a bot, given that it's always using a web gateway like kiwiirc
<dobey> could be, sure, but the behavior is a bit un-bot-like
<ogra_> one of the staff people once told me they consider it a bot ... just basing my judgement on that
<ogra_> also ... the text is always the same across all channels i see it in
<dobey> yeah
<dobey> i think it's just copy/pasting
<mdeslaur> I see this is where all the important discussions happen :)
<dobey> it used to stay around longer going on forever, so at least that's not happening any more
<willcooke> night all
<fossfreedom> jbicha advised I should drop this here... everyone gtk+3.22.13 is causing major issues with ubuntu budgie (crashes) and clipboard issues for other desktops.  Just a heads up if we are thinking of introducing this into artful/zesty anytime soon - https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=782453
<ubot5> Gnome bug 782453 in Backend: Wayland "Can't copy/past from firefox/chrome/xclip to other application (eg. gnome-terminal, epiphany)" [Major,Resolved: duplicate]
<jbicha> fossfreedom: it looks like that is being fixed in mutter 3.24.2 (which should be released later this week)
<fossfreedom> I'm impressed with the turn around time.  All credit to the devs there.
<fossfreedom> ah - I'm talking to Solus at the moment - that fix only fixes the clipboard issue  - there is something also in that part of the code that is killing budgie-desktop
<jbicha> fossfreedom: maybe someone from Budgie should speak up in #gnome-shell on irc.gnome.org
<jbicha> fossfreedom: and there's a gtk 3.22.14 now
<jbicha> cyphermox: could you look into LP: #1687474 and LP: #1686726 ?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1687474 in gnome-user-docs (Ubuntu) "[MIR] gnome-user-docs" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1687474
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1686726 in gnome-getting-started-docs (Ubuntu) "[MIR] gnome-getting-started-docs" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1686726
<cyphermox> yeah
<jbicha> robert_ancell: good morning, if you upload gnome-software 3.24.2, could you cherry-pick https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-software/commit/?id=31efff for LP: #1689239
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1689239 in gnome-software (Ubuntu) "Headerbar used as toolbars in unity are missing proper css classes" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1689239
<robert_ancell> jbicha, sure. It was crashing here for some reason so I haven't uploaded it yet
<fossfreedom> is GTK+3.22.11 now frozen in zesty or are we intending to uplift to v3.22.14 ?
<jbicha> fossfreedom: we haven't discussed that yet, but what's your opinion?
<fossfreedom> jbicha: it crashes budgie-desktop - but just found the commit that causes the crash - so either we move to v3.22.14 but reverse the offending commit or need to devise a patch to budgie-desktop to resolve.
<jbicha> zesty might just stay with 3.22.11 since that's what Debian stretch currently has
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-05-11
<duflu> That's odd. Gnome Shell on zesty was trying to use Ambiance, but now I try it on artful the default theme is Adwaita (?)
<jbicha> duflu: how did you install gnome-shell?
<duflu> jbicha: $ sudo apt install ubuntu-gnome-desktop
<jbicha> duflu: you probably should have just installed gnome-shell
<duflu> Perhaps that's the difference, yeah thanks.
<duflu> I think I'll probably reinstall artful when it's in the iso
<jbicha> ubuntu-gnome-desktop currently installs ubuntu-gnome-default-settings which changes a bunch of stuff
<jbicha> and u-g-desktop will install extra apps that might not end up in default Ubuntu 17.10
<jibel> good morning
<duflu> Morning jibel
<oSoMoN> good morrow!
<andyrock> morning all
<willcooke> ahoy hoy
<didrocks> hey desktopers
<willcooke> morning didrocks, how goes?
<didrocks> willcooke: dark clouds outside :p yourself?
 * willcooke looks
<didrocks> (it's almost night light)
<willcooke> looks alright, a little sunshine around today.  Cold last night, down to 4 degrees.  Stupid spring.
<willcooke> ... and now over to Carol for the sports.
<flexiondotorg> Morning desktopers
<willcooke> morning flexiondotorg
<willcooke> feeling better?
<flexiondotorg> Not really :-(
<willcooke> bah :(
<didrocks> jetlag/travel related?
<flexiondotorg> Yep, jetlag and conference flu.
<didrocks> argh
<didrocks> I'm sure it's due to the LAS people, you partied too much during the podcast record :)
<didrocks> (or they promised you too many beers)
<flexiondotorg> Something like that ;-)
<Laney> MOINNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN
<willcooke> hey Laney.  How you doing?  All fixed?
<Laney> hey willcooke
<Laney> got some more exercises
<Laney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVKfFFxOxFU
<willcooke> woooaahh, someone swallowed a dictionary ;)
<willcooke> from 9 seconds to 18 seconds
<Laney> haha
<Laney> she didn't play me the sound
<Laney> but inorite
<Trevinho> Ah, hello europe!
<willcooke> hi Trevinho
<Trevinho> hi willcooke
 * duflu goes to play in traffic
<duflu> Thankfully not something I need to do often
<Laney> fossfreedom: is there a bug report for your gtk 3.22.14 problem?
<OW> 1
<OW> ç«ãæãæãå°ãã
<daker> dobey: any comment on that guy â¬ï¸ ?
<sil2100> It's just some Overwatch fan, don't worry about that
<jbicha> Laney: fossfreedom: Budgie GTK+ bug https://bugzilla.gnome.org/782494
<ubot5> Gnome bug 782494 in Widget: Other "Regression in GtkListBox internal child listing" [Normal,New]
<Laney> taaaaaaaa
<allison> good afternoon everyone
<Laney> hey allison
<allison> Laney: what are you up to these days?
<kenvandine> Laney, are you looking after the gtk package?
<cyphermox> jbicha: gnome-user-docs done (waiting for an AA to push it in main), gnome-g-s-d in progress.
<cyphermox> we'd need seb to subscribe ~desktop-packages to gnome-getting-started-docs and maybe Laney to subscribe ~desktop-bugs
<cyphermox> allison: hey, how do you do?
<jbicha> thanks
<jbicha> Ars released their 17.04 review today: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/05/ubuntu-17-04-review-this-is-unitys-true-swan-song/
<Laney> allison: in work?
<Laney> CI stuff, packaging stuff, release stuff
<Laney> kenvandine: ish
<kenvandine> Laney, :)
<kenvandine> Laney, i think we should disable the mir backend
<Laney> oh yeah
<kenvandine> i'm snapping gnome stuff and have to include the mir-libs content interface because we link to mir
<Laney> is it causing a problem?
<Laney> what's happening to that upstream?
<Laney> do any of the remaining Mir usecases need it?
<kenvandine> bitrot i guess :/
<kenvandine> i don't think so
<kenvandine> willcooke, ^^ right?
<Laney> if not, feel free
<willcooke> right, no use cases for it at this time
<willcooke> :(
<Laney> we have some distro patches cherry-picking new stuff for it, those could be dropped too
 * Laney hears a wail coming from Toronto
<kenvandine> that'll also drop the content-hub deps
<kenvandine> :(
<kenvandine> Laney, ok, i'll do that
<Laney> if you want a review, push it but don't upload
<jbicha> I think I already dropped the MIR cherry-picks when I updated gtk to 3.22.12 in artful
<Laney> that was naughty unless you checked with someone
<jbicha> no, I mean, they were part of the new release
<Laney> k
<Laney> if they came from the branch that would happen
<jbicha> kenvandine: maybe hold off on uploading the new version a few more days for the remaining Budgie issue
<jbicha> kenvandine: there might be a .15 release to fix that
<Laney> don't need to take the new version now
<kenvandine> i'll get an MR up for review
<jbicha> what do y'all think about the headerbar patches for various apps? is it better to keep them as long as they aren't holding anything else back?
<jbicha> or should we drop them to clean up the packaging, and make GNOME apps behave more similarly everywhere as intended by GNOME
<kenvandine> jbicha, i'm not familiar with the headerbar patches, what do they do?
<dobey> daker: i am no good at reading kanji :)
<kenvandine> was that to deal with our theme?
<daker> dobey: :D
<jbicha> kenvandine: we have patches to several apps to use a traditional toolbar instead of GNOME's CSD headerbars, when run in Unity
<kenvandine> oh, so only affects them under unity?
<Laney> yeh
<jbicha> we didn't get around to all the apps, Sudoku still has the headerbars in Unity but Nautilus has a toolbar, for instance
<Laney> they go in and muck around with the widget hierarchy directly
<Laney> so not exactly the most robust solution
<kenvandine> no strong opinions from me... but i guess we'd be better off dropping them
<kenvandine> but hate to hurt the unity experience
<jbicha> some Unity people wanted the headerbars actually, so it might be a tossup which is better for Unity
<dobey> someone should make CSD work under unity
<jbicha> dobey: I believe they already work, as do light-themes
<Laney> I think Trevinho's recent theme work improves that a bit
<dobey> jbicha: i mean work properly
<Laney> we used to always argue about how they break LIM
<jbicha> gnome-sudoku seems to work fine
<dobey> it doesn't have the ugly pixels in the corners?
<Laney> no
 * kenvandine loves that fix
<jbicha> oh, I guess LIM doesn't work right with them still :|
<dobey> what about the menus in titlebars stuff? does CSD work with that
<jbicha> dobey: no, from what I see with gnome-sudoku
<xnox> has anybody looked at gvfs adt failures on i386 in artful? https://objectstorage.prodstack4-5.canonical.com/v1/AUTH_77e2ada1e7a84929a74ba3b87153c0ac/autopkgtest-artful/artful/i386/g/gvfs/20170511_115343_1dfce@/log.gz
<xnox> passses everywhere else
<xnox> then again i386 is the only 32bit full VM based test bed.
 * Laney wonders who uploaded the package that triggered this failed run ;-)
<jbicha> xnox: I believe gvfs's autopkgtests are flaky; that's part of why I didn't update gvfs to 1.32 for zesty because I didn't want to deal with autopkgtest for it
<jbicha> although suddenly the tests started mostly working in February
<xnox> jbicha, ack, retry worked. i hope nobody triggers it again, such that i can land systemd \o/
<rbasak> Is it intentional that xserver-xorg-input-synaptics is no longer seeded?
<rbasak> I just installed a new laptop with the artful daily, and Unity's touchpad configuration is suboptimal without it installed.
<rbasak> Looks like it has been unseeded in artful?
<Laney> It was intentional
<Laney> but it does create that bug...
<jbicha> rbasak: yes, see LP: #1686081
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1686081 in xorg (Ubuntu) "If -synaptics is installed, GNOME Mouse & Touchpad Settings doesn't work" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1686081
<rbasak> Thanks
<rbasak> I guess there's no point in filing an installer bug?
<rbasak> (well, a bug related to the installation of the daily)
<willcooke> mozjs38 is ack'd by security, so we should be able to update the seeds soon \o/
<kenvandine> willcooke, woot :)
<Laney> cyphermox: what are you looking for subscribers on?
<Laney> just gnome-getting-started-docs?
<Laney> (done)
<cyphermox> Laney: yes, thanks!
<jbicha> Laney: could you handle a subscriber for gdm3 too since gnome-shell currently will not run if the gdm gir is not installed
 * willcooke -> dinner.  bbl
<Laney> jbicha: that's done
<Laney> I missed it in the first round because it was further down
<Laney> nighty night
<oSoMoN> good night!
<rbasak> jbicha: fyi, I just filed bug 1690200 which I think may be a regression in your merge of 3.24.2-0ubuntu1. But in reproducing to write up the bug report, I found a trivial workaround, so I'm going to move on.
<ubot5> bug 1690200 in gnome-terminal (Ubuntu) "gnome-terminal crashes on Terminal->Preferences->Profiles->Edit" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1690200
<jbicha> hmm, that issue doesn't affect GNOME Shell
<Trevinho> jbicha: with patches LIM would work...
<Trevinho> jbicha: my theory is.... If it's not hard to bring patches around, let's do that.
<Trevinho> like if it's just 2 minutes to adapt ok, otherwise i'd drop them... But at least thing as gedit, evince and nautilus should be kept with higher consideration, as I expect still quite a considerable number of people to continue to use U7 in next LTS.
<jbicha> rbasak: oh never mind, it's reproducible on GNOME Shell too
<jbicha> Trevinho: some parts of Unity7 will be broken by 18.04
<Trevinho> jbicha: what are you referring to?
<Trevinho> jbicha: anyway, haderbars usage won't break the usability overall... So they're "ok".
<jbicha> it looks like UOA will be completely removed (?) but Unity (shell or control-center) don't work with GOA
<jbicha> someone that installs Unity will need -synaptics but installing that breaks GNOME
<jbicha> several integration patches are being dropped so I guess that's not breaking Unity but it isn't as nicely integrated as 16.04
<willcooke> night all.  London tomorrow.
 * kenvandine had forgotten how much fun building gtk can be
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-05-12
<oSoMoN> good morning,
<didrocks> salut oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks
<Laney> sup yo
<oSoMoN> hey Laney, how are things?
<Laney> hey oSoMoN, happy friday!
<Laney> they are good
<Laney> we went for a BBQ with friends last night which was nice
<Laney> and today it's raining!
<oSoMoN> itâs sunny and warm here, looks like itâs gonna be a good friday
<Laney> been a lack of that lately
<Laney> so I'm happy about that too
<oSoMoN> and BBQ plans for tonight, too :)
<Laney> what about you?
<Laney> sweet
<didrocks> morning Laney
<Laney> hey didrocks!
<Laney> happy friday
<Laney> you good?
<didrocks> I'm fine, yeah, sounds like you have a great weather for BBQing :)
<didrocks> here, it's rain and rain day after day
<Laney> https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/613682/Rainfall_and_river_flow_summary_3_to_9_May_2017.pdf
<jbicha> good morning
<jbicha> https://tingping.github.io/2017/05/11/flatpak-theming.html
<Trevinho> Laney: another small tweak https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/ubuntu-themes/closer-window-buttons/+merge/323973
<Laney> those nots aren't necessary, are they?
<Laney> negative margin?
<muktupavels> Trevinho: maybe you want add / fix appmenu button style in headerbar? Only that button is not visible by default in gnome shell...
 * kenvandine upgrades to artful
<kenvandine> and crosses fingers :)
<oSoMoN> living on the edgeâ¦
<kenvandine> lol... do-release-upgrade is estimating it will take a total of 1 second to  download packages for the upgrade
<kenvandine> clearly wrong
<gQuigs> kenvandine: how many MBs?
<kenvandine> 687
<kenvandine> which doesn't seem right either
<kenvandine> 30 minutes and only 1/3 of the download is complete, 1s was way off :)
<kenvandine> actually less than 1/4th... geez
<kenvandine> i'm on gigabit, the archive mirror must be really slow
<mhall119> willcooke: ping
<willcooke> mhall119, hey
<mhall119> willcooke: hey, do you want to have a sync call about KDE snaps?
<willcooke> mhall119, yes please - can you do next week
<mhall119> yup, anytime I have an opening on my schedule go ahead and put something in
<willcooke> mhall119, thanks
 * oSoMoN EOW, have a good week-end everyone!
<davemwi> hey all, having a GRUB problem. Desktop is up and running but after doing a software update, got messages that GRUB couldn't be reinstalled/updated...
<davemwi> afraid to shut down, would rather fix it while it's up, but I'm not prepared for this. can anyone help?
<willcooke> hey davemwi, you'd be better of asking in #ubuntu I think.  They're more likely to be able to help you
<davemwi> willcooke, I can't get in, the room is full...
<willcooke> davemwi, I'll leave, one sec...
<willcooke> davemwi, try now
<davemwi> willcooke, nope, still not coming up, well, I guess I'll keep trying
<willcooke> night all
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-05-13
<jbicha> either a lot of people were running gnome-shell in 12.04 Beta or gnome-shell 3.4 was really buggy
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-05-14
<sameee> #ubuntu-es
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-05-07
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<didrocks> good morning!
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks
<didrocks> Ã§a va oSoMoN ?
<oSoMoN> didrocks, Ã§a va, et toi?
<ricotz> hey desktopers
<oSoMoN> hey ricotz
<didrocks> oSoMoN: Ã§a va bien :) il commence Ã  faire un peu plus chaud Ã  nouveau :)
<didrocks> hey ricotz
<ricotz> didrocks, hi
<ricotz> oSoMoN, hey
<duflu> Morning oSoMoN, didrocks, ricotz, world
<duflu> (western world that is. It's no longer morning here in the east)
<duflu> Although that all depends west of /what/
<didrocks> hey duflu
<Nafallo> o/
<Nafallo> I'm not fully awake yet, so morning feels a little abstract still :-P
<duflu> Morning Nafallo
<didrocks> Mornin Nafallo, complete with the finale g as you see fit ;)
<Nafallo> :-D
<oSoMoN> chrisccoulson, good morning! chromium-browser 66 fails to build for xenial in https://launchpad.net/~canonical-chromium-builds/+archive/ubuntu/stage/+packages because I bumped the clang build-dep to 5.0 which is in xenial-updates, but the PPA builds against -security only, what would you recommend doing to address that?
<oSoMoN> should I copy llvm-toolchain-5.0 from xenial-updates to the PPA?
<didrocks> oSoMoN: I think today is a bank holidays in the UK
<didrocks> (just for the record, shouldn't the deps be "default", so that you grab both against -security and -updates?)
<didrocks> (well, if you don't copy from the ppa to -security afterwards, ofc)
<oSoMoN> didrocks, that's the thing, that PPA is a staging area from where chromium updates are copied to -security
<oSoMoN> right, IÂ forgot that bank holiday thing, it's gonna be a quiet day today
<didrocks> understood, makes sense
<didrocks> yeah ;)
<oSoMoN> perfect for getting things done :)
<didrocks> exactly! Crazy it's not even 11am and what I was able to do since the start of the day
<c-lobrano> morning all :)
<didrocks> hey, or rather, re c-lobrano! ;)
<c-lobrano> Trevinho: hi! It seems that dropbox double menu issue is still reproducible on communitheme session https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell-extension-appindicator/+bug/1716056 and a dropbox version newer than the one that should have the fix. Do you think there is something missing in our session to make it work?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1716056 in gnome-shell-extension-appindicator (Ubuntu Artful) "Multiple context menus appearing" [High,In progress]
<c-lobrano> Trevinho: here the ticket on communitheme https://github.com/ubuntu/gnome-shell-communitheme/issues/172
<ubot5-ng> ubuntu bug 172 in gnome-shell-communitheme "Dropbox double menu" (comments: 6) [Open]
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 172 in Launchpad itself "Feature request - Warning: "This translation might exist"" [Medium,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172
<didrocks> I bet dropbox/electron hardcoded the session name
<didrocks> or something like "XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP" starts with ubuntu:
<c-lobrano> didrocks: yep I worries this is the thing
<c-lobrano> *worry
<didrocks> c-lobrano: can you try starting dropbox just changing the env var?
<didrocks> (well, kill current process and restart it)
<c-lobrano> let me try
<didrocks> try with XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP=ubuntu:GNOME
<didrocks> (that's what the main session has)
<c-lobrano> didrocks: yep, confirmed, this change works
<c-lobrano> also the icon is nicer :)
<didrocks> special icon! :p
<didrocks> IIRC, the main patch was on electron
<didrocks> and here we go: https://github.com/electron/electron/blob/master/lib/browser/init.js#L166
<c-lobrano> olÃ¨! harcoded things work best :D
<c-lobrano> was there a bug already opened on this?
<didrocks> yeahâ¦ until it breaks :)
<c-lobrano> lol
<didrocks> I don't thinks so, mind opening it?
<didrocks> let me flush out a quick fix PR
<didrocks> and reference your bug
<didrocks> plotting a riot :p
<c-lobrano> sure, on the same github repo above, right?
<didrocks> yes!
<c-lobrano> alright
<didrocks> c-lobrano: fix ready, just paste the bug link here
<c-lobrano> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/ObCO8IPx/
<didrocks> pastebin deleted?
<c-lobrano> bad link, this is the right one https://github.com/electron/electron/issues/12843
<ubot5-ng> electron bug 12843 in electron "Double trayicon menu when session name does not match hardcoded ones" (comments: 1) [Open]
<ubot5> bug 12843 in xorg (Ubuntu) "debconf asks xserver-xorg questions three times during upgrade" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/12843
<didrocks> perfect!
<c-lobrano> oh my, I should really improve my "open new bug" skills
<c-lobrano> :)
<didrocks> I prefer you don't improve that skill while keeping a "don't create bug in communitheme"  ;)
<didrocks> one*
<didrocks> I'm amazed as the themes can be quite fragile that there has been no big breakage yet! Good work
<didrocks> c-lobrano: for reference: https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/12844
<ubot5-ng> electron bug (Pull request) 12844 in electron "Support multiple inherited ubuntu session for indicators" (comments: 1) [Open]
<didrocks> the issue is that we then need to wait for it to be merged, then electron release, then dropbox rebase on newest electron ofc
<c-lobrano> ahaha, I'm a developer, I made bugs for a living, but don't tell anyone ;D
<didrocks> shhhhhhhh ;)
<didrocks> (we all do :p)
 * duflu turns to camera - that's not how it works, kids
<c-lobrano> of course, my code is bug free, I was only joking (wink)
<didrocks> sureeeeeeeeeee, I've never fix either any bugs on any of my projects. It's only in the other onesâ¦ :p
<duflu> didrocks, you (or someone) can probably land Andy's ubiquity fix
<didrocks> duflu: yeah, I can't merge though the ubuquity repo, so I prefer someone have merge rights to do so
<didrocks> ubiquity*
<didrocks> there is no rush unfortunately, we are not going to have an ISO respin this weekâ¦
<duflu> didrocks, of course, but being early reduces the risk of being late
<duflu> or more late regressions
<didrocks> indeed
<duflu> AIUI that one happened on release day?
<duflu> Not sure. Anyway, I am exhausted. Good night
<didrocks> I guess it was a day after release
<didrocks> have a good night duflu!
<didrocks> tomorrow is off in France, see you on Wednesday
<duflu> Heh, I've already worn the writing off my bionic installer USB
<duflu> OK, catch you Wednesday didrocks
<andyrock> morning all
<didrocks> hey andyrock
<c-lobrano> morning andyrock :)
<Trevinho> morning
<ricotz> any chance for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vte2.91/+bug/1765389
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1765389 in vte2.91 (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Drop unrelated changes from revert-prce2.patch" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<jbicha> ricotz: could you ask again once cosmic is actually open? you can tell when it's open because https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/cosmic won't say Pre-release Freeze (and there should be an announcement email)
<ricotz> jbicha, hi, ok, still having this in bionic eventually would be great
<jbicha> ricotz: could you update the bug description to use the SRU template? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#Procedure
<oSoMoN> time to wrap up, have a good evening/rest of the day everyone
<andyrock> jbicha: can you take a look https://code.launchpad.net/~azzar1/gnome-shell/fix-1768786/+merge/345203 ?
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-05-08
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<duflu> Morning oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> hey duflu
<Laney> moinington
<Laney> looks like my vps got rebooted at some point /o\
<oSoMoN> morning Laney
<willcooke> oops, wrong channel by default.  Morning all!
<duflu> Morning Laney, willcooke
<Laney> hey oSoMoN willcooke duflu
<jamesh> so, I got the portal-test app to write a file via the document portal: portal-test opened an out-of-process file chooser, xdg-desktop-portal instructed xdg-document-portal to make the chosen file writable to portal-test, portal-test wrote to the file under $XDG_RUNTIME_DIR/doc, and the content appeared in the right location
<jamesh> now to just get the remaining branches landed
<willcooke> jamesh, woot!  Nice one
<oSoMoN> good morning willcooke
<oSoMoN> hey jamesh
<jamesh> hi oSoMoN
<willcooke> Trevinho, typo in your forum post: git clone lp:~ubuntu-theam/my-package == git clone lp:~ubuntu-team/my-package ?
<willcooke> https://community.ubuntu.com/t/desktop-deb-packages-migration-to-git/5746
<Nafallo> willcooke: oh. no public holiday today? :-)
<Nafallo> o/
<willcooke> Nafallo, yesterday
<Nafallo> ah. thought it'd be both :-)
<willcooke> The Frenchies have today and Thursday
<willcooke> (and likely others too)
<Nafallo> heh, and Sweden have Thursday, which means most people will take Friday as well ;-)
<Nafallo> annoying month this.
<willcooke> Wise :)
<Nafallo> hehe. duflu is still working! :-P
 * duflu checks and is still in Western Australia
<Nafallo> oh. it's way earlier than I thought over there :-)
<duflu> Also, the future is now: http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/daily-live/pending/
<Nafallo> so it's actually canimal then :-P
<duflu> CAPITALS usually indicates that the word is a placeholder for something else
<Laney> yes but if you google canimal it shows you a thing that I hope remains the thing
<willcooke> :))
<duflu> Reminiscent of phone device codenames :)
<Nafallo> personally I wouldn't mind a Cosmic Capybara ;-)
<Nafallo> oh. topic should be updated to the new trello board btw :-)
* willcooke changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help
<willcooke> :)
<jbicha> willcooke: are we having a desktop team meeting today without the Frenchies? (I'm fine either way)
<willcooke> jbicha, yeah, I think a quick one is worth doing
<willcooke> Anyone got any ideas as to what might be using a Facebook API in Ubuntu?  It's not ubports, so I think it could be either a Unity-online-accounts thing or an old phone thing
<willcooke> and we're using GNOME for g-o-a now
<willcooke> Faebook sent a message via IS to say we need to review our app, but afaik we're not using anything like that any more and it can probably die
<Nafallo> hmm. now you made me check Online Accounts, and I keep getting a warning symbol for the Ubuntu One account :-/
<willcooke> Nafallo, yeah, known issue, andyrock is looking at it
<Nafallo> great :-)
<Nafallo> willcooke: hmm. maybe FB could provide some more details? if it's UOA it might still be used in 12.04 and 14.04?
<willcooke> Looks like Shotwell uses it's own one now too
<Trevinho> hey
<Trevinho> willcooke: oh, right... it was before dinner xD
<Laney> hey Trevinho
<Trevinho> hi Laney
<Laney> what's up
<Laney> where are you now?
<Trevinho> good, Lisbon still
<Trevinho> i'll be fy to UK next sunday though
<Trevinho> flying*
<Laney> whattt
<Trevinho> there's the hackfest in cambridge
<Trevinho> I'll stay in London until 23 though, then
<Laney> oh yes this one
<Trevinho> Laney: you come a bit to the south one day? :)
<Laney> just been in london for 10 days
<Laney> quite enough of that for me
<tjaalton> bah, dock disappeared.. how to get it back?
<Laney> you should explore a non london part of england, they do exist you know!
<Trevinho> oh, lazy! xD
<Trevinho> Laney: right... I've already been up tp York, some East. I do miss the center though. I could have done, but a friend (the mozilla guy) invited me to stay in London, so...
<Trevinho> next time I'll visit you, promised :-D
<willcooke> tjaalton, there's probably a better way, but install tweaks and reenable it might do the job?
<tjaalton> willcooke: alt-f2; r
<tjaalton> that worked fine
<tjaalton> found it on askubuntu
<willcooke> ah, good to know thanlks
<Laney> tjaalton: anything in the journal?
<tjaalton> stuff like
<tjaalton> touko 08 14:53:35 deckard.tyrell gnome-shell[5749]: JS ERROR: TypeError: this._monitor is undefined
<jbicha> willcooke: account-plugin-facebook was part of Ubuntu 16.04 LTS so it still has 3 years of support remaining (it is part of UOA)
<willcooke> jbicha, any ideas where the API keys are stored in LP for that?
<jbicha> willcooke: source account-plugins  in debian/rules
<willcooke> thanks jbicha
<willcooke> trello playing up for anyone else?
<willcooke> meh, working now
<willcooke> ..and now it;s not
<willcooke> https://www.trellostatus.com/
<willcooke> its down
<sil2100> Yeah, just started wondering what happened to the autopkgtest board
<Nafallo> meetingtime! :-D
<jbicha> o/
<willcooke> #startmeeting Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-05-08
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue May  8 13:30:58 2018 UTC.  The chair is willcooke. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-05-08 | Current topic:
<willcooke> Roll call:  andyrock, dgadomski, didrocks (out), duflu (out), jbicha, jamesh (out), heber, kenvandine, laney, oSoMoN, seb128 (out), tkamppeter, trevinho, robert_ancell (out)
<kenvandine> \o
<oSoMoN> o/
<andyrock> o/
<willcooke> Let's get started
<willcooke> #topic andyrock
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-05-08 | Current topic: andyrock
<andyrock> #1 Fixes proposed upstream for LP: #1759468 (it tooks some time because it was a memory corruption issue)
<andyrock> #2 Some other fixed proposed upstreams for random warnings in gnome-control-centers
<andyrock> #3 Fix proposed for LP: #1751252
<andyrock> #4 Fix proposed for LP: #1768786 (no need to upstream it considering that it's a ubuntu specific issue)
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1759468 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "gnome-control-center (11) gtk_style_context_clear_property_cache â gtk_css_widget_node_update_style â gtk_css_node_ensure_style â gtk_css_node_ensure_style â gtk_css_node_validate_internal" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1759468
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1751252 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Bionic) "[regression] ubiquity crashed in debconf.py:104 with ValueError: invalid literal for int() with base 10: ''" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1751252
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1768786 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "Screen is displayed when resuming from suspend" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1768786
<andyrock> #5 Debugged the expiring-after-24h ubuntu sso accounts (opened a bug against snapstore: LP: #1769878)
<andyrock> #6 Some bug triaging
<andyrock> #7 Adapting sso dialog in software-properties-gtk according to https://github.com/CanonicalLtd/desktop-design/issues/62
<andyrock> #8 Adapting sso dialog in gnome-initial-setup according to https://github.com/CanonicalLtd/desktop-design/issues/62
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1769878 in Snap Store "/api/v1/snaps/purchases/customers/me does not ask for refreshed tokens" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1769878
<andyrock> eow
<ubot5-ng`> CanonicalLtd bug 62 in desktop-design "Authentication in gnome-software using gnome-online-accounts" (comments: 21) [Priority: High, Review: Ux +1, Closed] - Assigned to matthewpaulthomas (Matthew Thomas)
<ubot5> bug 62 in Launchpad itself "Maintainers can add themselves to the CC: list too" [Medium,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/62
<andyrock> *took
<willcooke> thanks andyrock
<willcooke> #topic dgadomski
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-05-08 | Current topic: dgadomski
<willcooke> Are you around?
<dgadomski> hey
<dgadomski> sadly nothing desktop-related to share this time
<dgadomski> eof
<willcooke> thanks dgadomski
<willcooke> #topic didrocks
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-05-08 | Current topic: didrocks
<willcooke> One day off (Tuesday)
<willcooke> * Ubiquity:
<willcooke>   - more ubiquity debugging and hunting. Fix for shutdown https://code.launchpad.net/~didrocks/ubiquity/fix-crash-on-reboot/+merge/344215
<willcooke>   - more and more ubiquity debugging on release day, trying as well to reproduce an issue and a lot of tests/chitchat about those.
<willcooke> * Communitheme:
<willcooke>   - made it arch: all, removing the arch-dependent part, so that Travis CI ships in one build for everyone (no option of doing commit build for all archs before). It also drops 1Mb.
<willcooke>   - fix electron and GTK2 support from the snap: https://github.com/ubuntu/communitheme-snap-helpers/commit/9540454e9bf3e32d5509937fa5527231d0b58b73
<willcooke>   - move those tools and implements "setting gdm default theme to communitheme" with a new snap communitheme-set-default. Fights some bugs in snapcraft. Now pending on classic mode approval: https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/classic-confinement-request-communitheme-set-default/
<willcooke>   - adapt doc to latest and guide communitheme on how to release the stable snap themselves
<willcooke>   - last interview published and supports to bugs/questions over the hub.
<willcooke>   - more discussion with the core communitheme team about workflow, liaisons about interaction with the global community, potential theme names
<willcooke>   - file some bug reports on latest changes (https://github.com/ubuntu/gnome-shell-communitheme/issues/173)
<ubot5-ng`> ubuntu bug 173 in gnome-shell-communitheme "Transparent top panel when in opaque state creates some mind boggling use case" (comments: 3) [Enhancement, Open]
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 173 in Baz (deprecated) "Failure to get passphrase right causes "CHECKSUM FILE(S) DISAGREE WITH DIRECTORY LISTING"" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173
<willcooke> * Ubuntu-report:
<willcooke>   - implements a classic snap for the CLI, with even shell completion and tests running during snap build. However, stuck on a golang available version, using thus core18 for this, but this triggers a snapcraft bug while building: https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/building-on-core18-failure-on-pulling-core18-on-build-snapcraft-io/5204.
<willcooke>   - add telemetry support for upgrades. Waiting for a review (please review!): https://code.launchpad.net/~didrocks/ubuntu-release-upgrader/add_telemetry/+merge/345088. Tested upgrade with those from 17.10 on ubuntu text and graphical mode as well as Kubuntu in graphical mode.
<willcooke> * Misc:
<willcooke>   - snapcraft/snapd broke the ubuntu-make snap. Helping as possible the new upstream developers (he tried on the forum and didn't get much helpâ¦). https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/ld-library-path-in-classic-snap/
<willcooke>   - SRU gnome-session migration script https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-session/+bug/1720310
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1720310 in gnome-session (Ubuntu) "unity-gnome-shell-migration.18.08.py crashed with signal 5 in g_object_new_valist() due to gnome-shell-extension-ubuntu-dock not installed" [Medium,Triaged]
<willcooke>   - some sponsoring and reviews (ubiquity and update-manager)
<willcooke> #topic duflu
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-05-08 | Current topic: duflu
<willcooke> * 18.04 installer crash regression (https://launchpad.net/bugs/1751252)
<willcooke>   - Fixed the root cause (cairo) and proposed upstream: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=98883#c6
<willcooke>   - Also tested and verified andyrock's workaround/fix for ubiquity.
<willcooke>   - Either one works alone, but both really should be fixed.
<willcooke> * 18.04 Gnome Shell visual regressions:
<ubot5-ng`> bugs.freedesktop.org bug 98883 in xlib backend "BadAccess errors in ShmAttach due to thread races with XNextRequest() usage in cairo-xlib-surface-shm.c" [Normal, New] - Assigned to chris
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1751252 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Bionic) "[regression] ubiquity crashed in debconf.py:104 with ValueError: invalid literal for int() with base 10: ''" [High,In progress]
<willcooke>   - Panel and menus are clipped when in zoom (https://launchpad.net/bugs/1767648)
<ubot5> Freedesktop bug 98883 in xlib backend "BadAccess errors in ShmAttach due to thread races with XNextRequest() usage in cairo-xlib-surface-shm.c" [Normal,New]
<ubot5> bug 98883 in kdebase (Ubuntu) "Crash in KDE inhibits shutdown" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/98883
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1767648 in mutter (Ubuntu) "Top bar and shell dialogs are not displayed properly when zoom is enabled" [Undecided,In progress]
<willcooke>     . Spent another day on it, with limited progress: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/merge_requests/52
<ubot5-ng`> GNOME bug (Merge request) 52 in mutter "clutter: Fix clipping of cloned actors with offscreen effects" (comments: 13) [Opened]
<willcooke> * Gnome Shell performance:
<willcooke>   - Work in progress: I've been dragged back in to revisit and redesign mipmapping. But the performance improvement is worth it (https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/merge_requests/89). More news next week.
<willcooke> * PulseAudio:
<ubot5-ng`> GNOME bug (Merge request) 89 in mutter "MetaShapedTexture: Disable mipmapping (emulation)" (comments: 22) [Closed]
<willcooke>   - There was a recent regression in xenial-updates (nothing to do with me though I did have to clean up some git mistakes): https://launchpad.net/bugs/1767784
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1767784 in pulseaudio (Ubuntu) "[regression] output device not recognized anymore since update 1:8.0-0ubuntu3.9" [High,Fix released]
<willcooke> * Gnome Control Center:
<willcooke>   - Fixed a surprising little power button bug (https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-control-center/merge_requests/39)
<ubot5-ng`> GNOME bug (Merge request) 39 in gnome-control-center "Rename misleading "Power Off" option." (comments: 4) [3. Expected Behavior, Opened]
<willcooke> * Daily bug management across gnome-shell, mutter, gdm3, ubuntu-themes, bluez, pulseaudio, dkms, wayland, totem, mpv, libinput.
<willcooke>   - Still getting above average bug mail, but lower than expected for an LTS release :)
<willcooke>   - More good news than bad this week: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vRDHPxGBHqM6XkT_S8ggtYfD0xchKSUD_z9PopNVE3G1rU05fVSnxDGcDsEstl7gu7N-tzCU6mLUp2V/pubchart?oid=254968654&format=interactive
<willcooke> * Next week I am away Mon-Tue. Back on Wed.
<willcooke> #topic jbicha
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-05-08 | Current topic: jbicha
<jbicha> â¢ Synced xdg-desktop-portal 0.11 to bionic with initial preparation for Snap support
<jbicha> â¢ Uploaded first gnome-initial-setup SRU
<jbicha> â¢ Uploaded gimp 2.10 to Debian & 18.10. See https://www.gimp.org/release-notes/gimp-2.10.html
<jbicha> (But it broke Ubuntu Studio daily images for 18.10. It's being worked on. See ubuntu-release list for details.)
<jbicha> â¢ Uploaded bolt to Debian. Thanks seb128 for the initial packaging in bionic.
<jbicha> â¢ Demoting devhelp to universe to avoid a MIR for a new library in its next major release
<jbicha> â¢ More work on removing gconf from Debian Testing. Blockers are pulseaudio (fixed upstream) and eclipse
<jbicha> â¢ Some GNOME 3.28.2 updates (this is the final scheduled project-wide GNOME 3.28 release)
<jbicha> â¢ New fonts-noto-color-emoji release in bionic LP: #1766736
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1766736 in fonts-noto-color-emoji (Ubuntu Bionic) "Update Noto Emoji to April 2018" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1766736
<jbicha> ð« (eof)
<willcooke> thanks jbicha
<willcooke> while I remember - seb128 and I had a quick think last week the fixes we need in .1 and we figured that we should hold off upgrading GNOME et al in 18.10 until 18.04.1 is out.  WDYT?
<jbicha> we can talk about that later, that's not really how SRUs work thoughâ¦
<willcooke> kk
<willcooke> #topic jamesh
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-05-08 | Current topic: jamesh
<willcooke> snapd - portals:
<willcooke> - discovered some problems with the document-portal support branch on
<willcooke> systems without document portal.  Put together a branch to add an
<willcooke> "ignore if missing" mode for mounts:
<willcooke> https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5126
<willcooke> - Ran an end-to-end test of file open/save using a snapped version of
<ubot5-ng`> snapcore bug (Pull request) 5126 in snapd "cmd/snap-update-ns: add support for ignoring mounts with missing source/target" (comments: 1) [Open]
<willcooke> the portal-test test program.
<willcooke>    - discovered an AppArmor denial related to the "requests" feature
<willcooke> used by the file open portal
<willcooke>    - with that fixed, the file open/save portals work: portal-test
<willcooke> asks xdg-desktop-portal to show file chooser, xdg-desktop-portal asks
<willcooke> xdg-document-portal to make selected file available to portal-test,
<willcooke> xdg-desktop-portal returns $XDG_RUNTIME_DIR/doc/ path back to
<willcooke> portal-test, which is then readable/writable under confinement.
<willcooke>    - I'm putting together a forum post about how this is all tied
<willcooke> together: will hopefully post it tomorrow.
<willcooke> snapd - evolution-data-server:
<willcooke>  - started work on some command line utilities that can be used to
<willcooke> construct a spread test for Ken's existing eds snap interface PR.
<willcooke> #topic kenvandine
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-05-08 | Current topic: kenvandine
<kenvandine> * Worked on hyper-v desktop images, we now have a fully functioning desktop image that boots on hyper-v with the enhanced session type using xrdp.  Two issues left before calling it done:
<kenvandine>   - Quiet a grub warning
<kenvandine>   - gnome-initial-setup is running with the upstream pages rather than oem-config, which is keeping us from running gnome-initial-setup with our "Ubuntu Welcome" pages on first login.
<kenvandine> * Sponsoring tkamppeter's fixes for https://bugs.launchpad.net/cups-pk-helper/+bug/934291
<kenvandine> â¾
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 934291 in cups-pk-helper (Ubuntu) "Deleting or stopping print jobs does not work" [Critical,In progress]
<willcooke> thanks kenvandine
<willcooke> #topic Laney
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-05-08 | Current topic: Laney
<Laney> â¢ short week this week, previous week was release sprint - some late nights...
<Laney> â¢ autopkgtest sprint: did some stuff
<Laney> â trained two newbies on how it all works
<Laney> â then we worked on some features, like you can now see the requester on the index page, and soon release team members will be able to reset the status of tests so that it's as if they never passed before (an 'accepted regression')
<Laney> â started rolling out bos01 (new cloud region), which uses a new Openstack API so had to modify stuff to deal with that
<Laney> â using our own cloud images instead of the 'upstream' ones all of the time now - no more race with unattended-upgrades
<Laney> â¢ then looked at gnome-shell 227 which is looking like a problem in gdm https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-shell/issues/227 waiting for Trevinho or halfline or someone to give their opinion
<ubot5-ng`> GNOME bug 227 in gnome-shell "Login fails when preceded by incorrect password" (comments: 21) [Opened]
<ubot5> Error: Gnome bug 227 could not be found
<Laney> â¢ reviewed / discussed Andrea's perms fix for ubiquity, uploaded to cosmic
<Laney> â¢ responded to Trevinho's thread on git for packaging, glad to see that underway
<Laney> ð¹
<Laney> bots are the future
<willcooke> thanks Laney
<willcooke> #topic oSoMoN
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-05-08 | Current topic: oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> hey
<oSoMoN> â¢ firefox
<oSoMoN>   â fixed a startup crash in the snap caused by the new bindtextdomain preload hook, which was freeing memory a bit too liberally (https://github.com/ubuntu/snapcraft-desktop-helpers/pull/112)
<ubot5-ng`> ubuntu bug (Pull request) 112 in snapcraft-desktop-helpers "Always free snap_locale_path, and null freed variables to avoid double-free corruption." (comments: 0) [Closed]
<oSoMoN> â¢ chromium
<oSoMoN>   â working on a snap built from source
<oSoMoN>   â fixed various build failures and updated PPAs to the latest upstream releases for stable (66), beta (67) and dev (68) channels
<oSoMoN>   â chromium 66.0.3359.139 finishing building in stage PPA, will soon be ready for {xenial,artful,bionic}-security, and the corresponding snap is currently in the candidate channel
<oSoMoN>   â chromium 66 won't build on trusty, upstream continues pushing aggressively for new C++ features that are not supported by the libstdc++ in trusty, and reverting those changes has become too involved and costly. I'm going to talk to the security team to get their perspective, hopefully it's okay to officially stop pushing chromium updates to trusty (chromium is in universe) and focus on the snap instead (which ru
<oSoMoN> ns well on trusty)
<oSoMoN> â¢ libreoffice
<oSoMoN>   â tested rebuilding the snap against core18 in a bionic container, and reported issues on the forum (https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/core18-issues/5216)
<oSoMoN>   â built snap for 6.0.4 RC2 (final release scheduled for this week), tested, published to the candidate channel and issued a call for testing (https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/call-for-testing-libreoffice-6-0-4/5319)
<oSoMoN>   â ricot_z is preparing the 6.0.4 update for the deb packages in a PPA, thanks!
<oSoMoN> â¢ snaps
<oSoMoN>   â started looking into https://trello.com/c/k0BFqgjO/344-gnome-shell-search-providers-from-snaps, wrote a proposal and requested comments from the snapd/security teams (https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/gnome-shell-search-providers-in-snaps/5265)
<oSoMoN> ð»
<willcooke> thanks oSoMoN
<willcooke> #topic tkamppeter
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-05-08 | Current topic: tkamppeter
<tkamppeter> - cups-filters: Tested and debugged re-generating cups-browsed-generated queues which got externally overwritten, committed changes to GIT.
<tkamppeter> - ippusbxd: Tested pull request with major changes from Chrome OS developer David Valleau in USB/Socket communication and reported problems, got fixes and improvements. Shortly before release.
<tkamppeter> - cups-pk-helper: Submitted debdiffs for using cups-pk-helper system user for SRU.
<tkamppeter> - Google Summer of Code 2018: Community bonding period, instructed students on preparing for the coding.
<tkamppeter> - Preparations for OpenPrinting Summit 2018 trip next week.
<tkamppeter> - Bugs.
<willcooke> thanks tkamppeter, hope you have a good trip
<willcooke> #topic Trevinho
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-05-08 | Current topic: Trevinho
<Trevinho> coming... :)
<jbicha> oSoMoN: btw, Debian bug 898116 is an interesting LO-related bug I'm looking at SRUing
<ubot5> Debian bug 898116 in fonts-liberation "fonts-liberation: font metrics changed in 1:1.07.4-3" [Important,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/898116
<Trevinho> Â· Debugging for not-logging in bug
<Trevinho> Â· Fixes on the GDM launch environment (now it runs in jhbuild too!)
<Trevinho>   https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=795886
<Trevinho> Â· Fix for libICE to save authority file in xdg-runtime (fixes potential bug
<Trevinho>   causing login hang, even after restart):
<Trevinho>   https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=106432
<Trevinho> Â· Fixes for a mutter crash on window destroynotify event
<ubot5> Gnome bug 795886 in general "Some environment variables are not preserved when launching greeter and apps" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<ubot5-ng`> bugzilla.gnome.org bug 795886 in general "Some environment variables are not preserved when launching greeter and apps" [Normal, Resolved: Fixed] - Assigned to gdm-maint
<Trevinho>   https://gitlab.gnome.org/3v1n0/mutter/commit/993a40c
<Trevinho> Â· Started some discussion about moving packages to git:
<Trevinho>   https://community.ubuntu.com/t/desktop-deb-packages-migration-to-git/5746
<ubot5-ng`> bugs.freedesktop.org bug 106432 in Lib/ICE "authutil: save IceAuthFile on XDG_RUNTIME_DIR if set" [Normal, New] - Assigned to xorg-team
<Trevinho> Â· Various other errors debugging in mutter and shell mostly
<ubot5> Freedesktop bug 106432 in Lib/ICE "authutil: save IceAuthFile on XDG_RUNTIME_DIR if set" [Normal,New]
<Trevinho> Â· Reproposed Gtk menu fix
<Trevinho>   https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/merge_requests/140
<ubot5> bug 793522 in OpenLP "duplicate for #795886 Bible-upgrade wizard keeps running" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/793522
<ubot5> bug 106432 in adept (Ubuntu) "adept package manager keeps refuses to install" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/106432
<ubot5-ng`> GNOME bug (Merge request) 140 in gtk "MenuShell: activate a menu item before deactivating its parent" (comments: 0) [Opened]
<Trevinho> ð
<willcooke> thanks Trevinho
<oSoMoN> jbicha, ack, thanks for taking care of it
<willcooke> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-05-08 | Current topic: AOB
<willcooke> Anyone got anythiing?
<willcooke> oh, lemme see if I have an update from Robert, I don't think I do
<willcooke> no
<willcooke> anyone got anything else?
<kenvandine> not me
<willcooke> going in 5...
<willcooke> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue May  8 13:47:53 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2018/ubuntu-desktop.2018-05-08-13.30.moin.txt
<willcooke> thanks everyone
<oSoMoN> thanks
<Nafallo> that was 9 ;-)
<willcooke> Nafallo, I was working on something more important at the time.... why can't I get colour emoji in Characters?
<Nafallo> willcooke: *grin*
<Nafallo> ubot5-ng: wb :-)
<jbicha> willcooke: do you have fonts-noto-color-emoji installed? are you on bionic?
<ubot5-ng> Nafallo: Error: "wb" is not a valid command.
<jbicha> ubot5-ng: invalid
<ubot5-ng> jbicha: Error: "invalid" is not a valid command.
<Nafallo> hrm. I think it needs that elisa plugin ;-)
<Nafallo> eliza maybe?
<willcooke> jbicha, yes and yes.  If I right click I can insert them, but Character Map doesn't sow them
<willcooke> show
<Laney> that's the old thing
<willcooke> just realised that, so I manually installed the snap
<willcooke> kenvandine, expected? ^
<Laney> that we didn't install it on upgrades?
<Laney> that was a decision
<jbicha> willcooke: maybe you're using the edge channel snap or something? snap info gnome-characters
<willcooke> ahhhh, right
<jbicha> oh you're talking about gucharmap? that doesn't support color emoji at all, you need gnome-characters
<kenvandine> indeed
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, have you seen my last comment on https://github.com/ibus/ibus/issues/1996 ? not sure whether adding your github handle in a comment resulted in a notification
<ubot5-ng> ibus bug 1996 in ibus "ibus_bus_init does an unconditional call to chmod on $HOME/.config/ibus/bus" (comments: 5) [Closed]
<ubot5> bug 1996 in Launchpad itself ""Upload" link is missing for individual po files" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1996
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, i saw the notification but was busy
<kenvandine> let me look now
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, no urgency, just a snap that needs rebuilding to pick up a fix in libibus
<oSoMoN> but the warning is harmless, so very low priority
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, gnome-logs was rebuilt recently
<kenvandine> i wonder if we have a version of ibus in the backports ppa that doesn't have the fix
<oSoMoN> ah, I haven't checked that
<kenvandine>  1.5.14-2ubuntu1
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, can you upload that same patch to the backports ppa?
<kenvandine> basically the same as your SRU
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, you are in ~ubuntu-desktop now :)
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, yep, I'll do that nowz
<oSoMoN> -z
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, thx
<kenvandine> once it's built in the ppa ping me
<kenvandine> i'll rebuild the snaps in candidate for some testing
<andyrock> willcooke: how much we care about canonical-livepatch and Ubuntu flavours?
<andyrock> willcooke: e.g. I guess xubuntu ships software-properties-gtk but not the patched gnome-online-accounts
<andyrock> willcooke: or any gnome-online-accounts at all
<andyrock> willcooke: should I patch software-properties to hide it if the current desktop is not ubuntu:GNOME?
<willcooke> andyrock, it's be grand if they could use it.  I'd like us to move as much stuff out of the older app (e.g. Software & Updates, printing settings, etc) in to GNOME Settings this cycle, so something to think about there.  I think for now though, the best thing to do is ask the flavours that use software-properties-gtk what they'd like to do.  I'd like to encourage as many people as we can to use it
<andyrock> I'm installing xubuntu on a vm to check what they ship
<jbicha> andyrock: I believe GOA should work for Budgie and Unity too
<andyrock> jbicha: /join #xubuntu
<andyrock> sorry
<andyrock> :D
<jbicha> I think Cinnamon also implemented a GOA frontend so Xubuntu could do it but it would take some development work
<andyrock> willcooke, jbicha they don't even use gnome-control-center
<andyrock> I think for the moment we should hide it, otherwise we get a lot of reports
<jbicha> gnome-control-center won't work outside GNOME (or Budgie) at a minimum because of the OnlyShowIn keys (it also expects gnome-settings-daemon plugins to be running)
<andyrock> I'm thinking about the best way to hide the checkbutton without hardcoding it
<Laney> andyrock: don't you depend on GOA?
<andyrock> on the lib yes
<andyrock> not on the provider (in this case gnome-control-center)
<andyrock> in theory we could make software-properties-gtk a provider
<andyrock> but that requires to build gir for goa-backend too
<andyrock> we really need to start a conversation with gnome upstream to improve the goa api
<andyrock> they're too tied to the provider
<Laney> you can look for control-center being dbus activatable
<Laney> ListActivatableNames
<Laney> or load its desktop file and check OnlyShowIn dynamically
<Laney> g_app_info_should_show
<andyrock> Laney: kk thanks
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, the amd64 build of ibus that I pushed to the gnome-3-26 PPA appears to be hung, it's taking way too long to run the tests
<oSoMoN> I'll cancel it and rebuild it, if you don't mind
<andyrock> Laney, willcooke, jbicha I also opened a trello board regarding goa api: https://trello.com/c/iQWtgD1F/83-start-a-conversation-with-gnome-upstream-to-improve-the-gnome-online-accounts-api
<Laney> k
<Laney> we forgot to review rls bugs in the meeting btw
<Laney> brb
<tintou> @andyrock https://debarshiray.wordpress.com/2012/10/06/goa-why-it-is-the-way-it-is/ that's why we are not using GOA in elementary FYI
<ubot5-ng> tintou: Error: "andyrock" is not a valid command.
<GunnarHj> Laney, jbicha: It would be good if we could revisit and finalize bug #1762889. The latest patch I submitted ought to still apply except for the d/changelog part, but then there was some discussion about help-* templates in general.
<ubot5> bug 1762889 in pkgbinarymangler (Ubuntu) "dh_translations doesn't strip .desktop files when more than 1 pot target with meson" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1762889
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, sure
<jbicha> GunnarHj: I defer to you and L_aney on that but I would like the change to be SRU'd to bionic
<GunnarHj> jbicha: Ok. Agree on SRUing.
<andyrock> Laney: I can also use the desktop file of the online-accounts panel
<andyrock> Laney: just in case someone is shipping gnome-control-center without that panel
<Laney> andyrock: that seems really niche, I'm not sure this is useful at all outside of Ubuntu, but ok...
<Laney> GunnarHj: I know about it, and I don't care about SRUing so if one of you wants to do that you can take care of it
<Laney> but I'll review soon-ish, honest!
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, ibus rebuilt with my patch and published in the gnome-3-26 PPA
<GunnarHj> Laney: Ok. Let's get it in for cosmic first, so we know what to SRU. ;) I'll update the patch with a couple of details, to please wait with reviewing until tomorrow.
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, thx
<flocculant> andyrock: #xubuntu-devel would be a better channel for questions next time :)
<andyrock> kk
<flocculant> willcooke: what did you mean by 'ask flavours using software-properties what they want to do' ? were you referring to canonical-livepatch?
<willcooke> flocculant, yeah
<flocculant> willcooke: okey doke - I'll add that to our list of stuff for 18.10 if you want
<flocculant> I know it doesn't work :)
<willcooke> flocculant, it only supports LTSes.
<andyrock> flocculant: canonical-livepatch only works on lts
 * oSoMoN calls it a day
<flocculant> well it wasn't working last week for me in 18.04
<willcooke> flocculant, basically, enable it (install the snap, apply a key - which s-p-gtk can do for you) and sit back and relax
<willcooke> flocculant, there aren't any live patches available yet
 * willcooke checks the time
<flocculant> willcooke: couldn't do it - didn't get further than a hanging password entry
<tsimonq2> The contents of what goes in here is open source, correct? (I know livepatch isn't).
<willcooke> flocculant, oh, interesting.  Using s-p-gtk?  andyrock might be able to help debug that
<tsimonq2> (If I wanted to grab the exact things applied, could I?)
<andyrock> flocculant: on Ubuntu or Xubuntu?
<flocculant> willcooke: if it needs a snap - could be why it failed
<flocculant> andyrock: xubuntu
<willcooke> tsimonq2, not sure I'm afraid - would need to check with the kernel team
<andyrock> well xubuntu is not supported
<andyrock> because it does not ship gnome-control-center
<andyrock> I'll proposed a fix to hide the UI if gnome-control-center is not there
<andyrock> I'll SRU it too
<flocculant> aah - so that I assume then is what the conversation about earlier?
<andyrock> flocculant: yep
<willcooke> tsimonq2, best to ask in #ubuntu-kernel whenever you're back
<tsimonq2> willcooke: OK
<flocculant> andyrock: ok - cheers
 * tsimonq2 's away message is set for phone notifications...
 * flocculant goes back to waiting for the next xubuntu ping from this channel
<tsimonq2> flocculant: Xubuntu ping. :P
<willcooke> Oh, cuttlefish
<willcooke> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1521
 * flocculant adds tsimonq2 to his ignore list :p
<willcooke> night all, planning to be off tomorrow too, but I'll be around if anything crops up
<robert_ancell> jbicha, how did you generate 0001-Add-Ubuntu-mode-with-special-pages.patch in gnome-initial-setup 3.28.0-2ubuntu7?
<jbicha> it was a bit messier because of the merge commits
<jbicha> normally I would use gbp pq import ; git cherry-pick  ; gbp pq export
<jbicha> and then I added the patch filename to d/source/include-binaries
<jbicha> but I squashed the commits before exporting
<robert_ancell> jbicha, why squash them?
<jbicha> probably the same reason you rebased and force pushed :)
<robert_ancell> jbicha, and it's stored in debian git?
<jbicha> the gitlab repo looks better now so I wouldn't need to squash now
<jbicha> it's only stored locally since it was a bit ambiguous where to push since we sort of weren't supposed to be using git officially yet :|
<jbicha> my git branch isn't much to see here anyway
<robert_ancell> jbicha, so I'm still confused - can we drop in git patches or do they need to be reformatted to work?
<jbicha> add a git remote; run gbp pq import; git cherry-pick what you want ; gbp pq export
<jbicha> if the patch is a binary patch, it needs to be listed in d/source/include-binaries
<jbicha> no other reformatting or squashing needed
<jbicha> the squashing was just because the ubuntu-welcome repo was a bit messy
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-05-09
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers!
<duflu> Hi oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> hey duflu
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> Morning didrocks
<didrocks> hey duflu
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks
<oSoMoN> how was the day off?
<didrocks> Was excellent, thanks! Sunny weather, relaxing time :) and was your day?
<oSoMoN> good, quiet and productive :)
<Mirv> it's sunny and warm indeed, luckily tomorrow is a day off
<didrocks> hey Mirv ;)
<didrocks> same here, tomorrow is off again
<didrocks> I wonder how many people are working in a office this week with the Tuesday/Thursday being offâ¦ :p
<Laney> yo
<duflu> 'sup Laney
<duflu> That's the extent of my street speak
<duflu> And hi Mirv
<didrocks> hey Laney
<Mirv> hey didrocks, duflu
<Laney> hey hey
<Laney> didrocks: decided to work today?
<didrocks> Laney: yeah, 2 days off, one day of work in between, good shape :)
<didrocks> also, not having a lot of people, it was a nice and productive Monday :)
<Laney> YEAHHH
 * didrocks does some profile matching and gnome-terminal tests, closing weechat thus, bbiab
<didrocks> ok, found the issue I was looking forâ¦
<Laney> gj ;-)
<Nafallo> o/
<Nafallo> short live the cuttlefish! \o/
<mdeslaur> lol
<kenvandine> tkamppeter, do you have a cosmic VM now?  If so can you please cups-pk-helper to confirm everything's ok and bug 934291 is fixed?
<ubot5> bug 934291 in cups-pk-helper (Ubuntu Bionic) "Deleting or stopping print jobs does not work" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/934291
<kenvandine> tkamppeter, once you verify it in cosmic I'll upload the SRU
<kenvandine> tkamppeter, also please update the bug with the info from the SRU bug template https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<popey> Who owns the simple-scan snap?
<popey> it segfaults for me (and at least one other user) on launch
<popey> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/LTa5Ujf2/
<jbicha> popey: kenvandine is listed on https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/snaps-officially-supported-by-canonical/1719
<kenvandine> ugh
 * kenvandine wonders when that broke
<popey> jbicha: thanks!
<kenvandine> popey, grr... that hasn't been rebuilt in ages
<kenvandine> i'll kick a build and hope that's enough
<jbicha> kenvandine: snaps don't have any sort of changelog yet, right?
<kenvandine> nope
<kenvandine> this is a classic snap and hadn't been rebuilt since sept
<kenvandine> all classic snaps built with older versions of snapcraft started crashing earlier this year
<popey> is it built on build.snapcraft.io ?
<kenvandine> no
<kenvandine> LP
<popey> ah
<kenvandine> it's building now
<popey> you should use lp-build-snap and a cron job to nudge a build periodically
<popey> (or use build)
<popey> (build does daily builds)
<Laney> just randomly build if nothing's changed?
<kenvandine> does build have a way to specific PPAs yet?
<popey> (unless the code isnt in github in which case youre sol)
<popey> no, ignore me, your special cases make this not work
<kenvandine> s/specific/specify
<kenvandine> :)
 * kenvandine is special
<kenvandine> i should get this one building on gitlab
<[Kid]> is there a way in 18.04 to have Skype flash on new message like in Unity?
<kenvandine> popey, simple-scan is fixed in the candidate channel
<kenvandine> popey, actually in the stable channel now :)
 * popey refreshes
<popey> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/YjiKPx6X/success
<popey> thanks kenvandine
<kenvandine> :)
<kenvandine>  warning: working around a Linux kernel bug by creating a hole of 4096 bytes in â/tmp/tmp5k3yqs2_â
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-05-10
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<duflu> Hi oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> hey duflu
<willcooke> morning all
<willcooke> is anyone specifically looking at: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1285258
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1285258 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "sometimes GNOME screen lock fails to unlock after password entered" [High,Triaged]
<duflu> willcooke, that looks like trusty. There are probably more relevant/current bugs in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bugs?field.tag=unlock
<duflu> Morning willcooke
<willcooke> hi duflu!  I dont see anything specific about that same issue in there, other than the bug I linked too
<willcooke> like, nothing newer
<duflu> willcooke, I guess my real question is whether you or someone is seeing it on bionic? I think we might have other newer password entry bugs open right now that would be more relevant
<duflu> Just not tagged
<willcooke> ah, right
<willcooke> someone pinged me on twitter to say they're seeing it
<willcooke> I'll get them to log a new bug
<duflu> willcooke, yeah, thanks. We do have a constant trickle of such reports and have been able to deduplicate most
<willcooke> ah
<willcooke> hold on
<willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1765261
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1765261 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "[regression] Ubuntu 18.04 login screen rejects a valid password on first attempt. Usually works on the second attempt" [High,In progress]
<duflu> I was thinking that but would wait for their bug report to verify
<willcooke> ack
<duflu> Also I haven't verified the 3.28.2 fix. It just sounds very much like it
<willcooke> yeah
<willcooke> kk, I've targetted that one
<duflu> Particularly for passwords that start with Shift ;)
<willcooke> :)
<duflu> So in bionic you had a hard time if your screen was QHD or higher, or your password starts with a Shift combo. Weird but we got there...
<willcooke> Still not as good as "can't print on Tuesday"]
<willcooke> or was it Thursday
<duflu> Ha
<duflu> willcooke, that covers two of the three notable bionic regressions I reported a couple of weeks ago. The third one applies to old Intel GPUs (2007-2010)
<duflu> Any older than 2007 and Mesa won't support you any more :(
<duflu> Also 64-bit
<willcooke> uh :(
<duflu> willcooke, just see my email from 1 May
<tjaalton> duflu: where?
<tjaalton> the email
<duflu> tjaalton, a private email
<tjaalton> ok
<duflu> tjaalton, in your inbox
<tjaalton> thx
<tjaalton> gen3 doesn't support native ogl2.x I think
<duflu> tjaalton, re bug 1727356, I think it's a simpler problem than that. GL works - you just need to be using Xorg, not Wayland
<ubot5> bug 1727356 in mutter (Ubuntu) "Wayland sessions (including the login screen itself) don't start up on older Intel GPUs." [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1727356
<tjaalton> ah right, wayland.. still weird that it wouldn't work
<duflu> tjaalton, I have the hardware, just not yet the patience to set up such a slow machine for debugging
<duflu> Still, it will bubble to the top of my list soonish
<willcooke> Trevinho, I see you're working on this upstream: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm3/+bug/1766137
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1766137 in gdm3 (Ubuntu) "[regression] Password accepted but login fails (blank purple screen and mouse pointer only)" [High,In progress]
<willcooke> can I assign that LP bug to you>?
<duflu> willcooke, yeah I assumed it was mine :)
<duflu> Oops, wrong bug
<duflu> willcooke, the password one is just waiting for gnome 3.28.2, so Jeremy
<willcooke> Well, is it though?  Are they the same root cause?
<tjaalton> gen4 is oldest I have
<tjaalton> 965gm
<duflu> willcooke, sorry, wrong bug again. 1766137 was in progress with Laney...?
<duflu> Laney was working on it in gitlab before it moved into bugzilla
<Laney> it's being worked on
<Laney> if that's 227 /  the new gnome bug for it
<duflu> In other news, if you have to jump to source code like 17607, there's probably something wrong
<duflu> -like +line
<duflu> willcooke, https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-shell/issues/227
<ubot5-ng> GNOME bug 227 in gnome-shell "Login fails when preceded by incorrect password" (comments: 22) [Closed]
<ubot5> Error: Gnome bug 227 could not be found
<oSoMoN> chrisccoulson, hey are you around? the chromium-browser update to 66.0.3359.139 is ready in ppa:canonical-chromium-builds/stage (for xenial, artful and bionic)
<Trevinho> willcooke: hey, also Laney was doing it, so not assigned to me as was for both :-)
<willcooke> Trevinho, kk
<willcooke> Trevinho, I've targetted it for B so (hopefully) we will pick it up next week
<Trevinho> willcooke: yeah, the fix is there, just waiting for upstream
<willcooke> cool
<Laney> right it's already picked up
<Laney> one day I'll make that p11-kit bug happen :(
<popey> Hm, I'm seeing a reall odd lag issue with the firefox snap in stable.
<popey> Switching tabs sometimes gives me a spinner in the middle of  a blank tab, and trying to highlight text just doesn't work, like it's blocked.
<popey> but a few seconds later it works.
<popey> Does anyone here use the firefox snap in anger?
<popey> (no other app does it)
<willcooke> popey, kenvandine does he'll be on in a couple of hours
<kenvandine> popey, yo
<kenvandine> popey, i've never seen that issue
<popey> ok
<willcooke> bah, I need to create some routing rules to stop passing everything over the VPN
<[Kid]> is there a way in 18.04 to have Skype flash on new message like in Unity?
<popey> Do you not get a little blob in the skype icon in the indicator area?
<[Kid]> i do, so maybe that is what i have to get used to
<[Kid]> i am used to unity flashing the icon on the dock
<popey> oh i see, yes.
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, can you try to run gnome-contacts from the candidate channel?
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, specifically any idea why every executable we try to run in desktop-launch set faults... but the snap actually works :)
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, something's up with our classic snaps
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, sorry I missed your messages (but got a notification on telegram), my internet went down
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, no worries
<kenvandine> it's weird though, things like mkdir are segfaulting
<kenvandine> just for the classic snap
<kenvandine> i'm thinking it's probably related to the preload
<kenvandine> not playing well with a classic snap
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, but wanted your insight :)
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, the snap to test is gnome-contacts, right?
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, ln also segfaults
<kenvandine> yes
<kenvandine> candidate channel
<oSoMoN> trying now
<oSoMoN> wow, it looks like every single command in the desktop-launch script segfaults
<kenvandine> exactly
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, we can easily check whether the preload thing is causing the problem, by rebuilding the snap without it
<Laney> oSoMoN: you can copy the desktop-launch script somewhere and then bind mount it over the one in the snap
<Laney> then it's editable
<oSoMoN> ah, that's an elegant alternative to using the rebuild-snap big hammer
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, confirmed, the app runs when bindtextdomain.so is not in the snap
<Laney> laney@nightingale> SNAP=/snap/gnome-contacts/39/ LD_PRELOAD=/snap/gnome-contacts/39/bindtextdomain.so:/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libc.so.6:/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libdl.so.2 mkdir /tmp/a                                           ~SNAP
<Laney> mkdir: cannot create directory â/tmp/aâ: File exists
<Laney> laney@nightingale> SNAP=/snap/gnome-contacts/39/ LD_PRELOAD=/snap/gnome-contacts/39/bindtextdomain.so:/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libc.so.6 mkdir /tmp/a                                                                            ~SNAP
<Laney> [1]    26689 segmentation fault (core dumped)  SNAP=/snap/gnome-contacts/39/ LD_PRELOAD= mkdir -v /tmp/a
<Laney> something to do with the libdl in the snap anyway
<kenvandine> that's concerning, since all the libs should be coming from 16.04 in the snap and core rather than the host
<Laney> they do
<Laney> but in that commandline I tell it to use my host one and it starts working
<kenvandine> right... it shouldn't though right?
<Laney> seems weird
<Laney> how's this thing built?
<kenvandine> or maybe it's just missing?
<kenvandine> on LP
<Laney> link to the build?
<kenvandine> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+snap/gnome-contacts/+build/214308
<Laney> the .so is built each time?
<kenvandine> yes
<Laney> hmmmmm
<Laney> would be good if there were ddebs :<
<jbicha> Trevinho: are you around today?
<Trevinho> jbicha: yep
<jbicha> Trevinho: I'm thinking about disabling the LP: #1764558 mutter patch for cosmic and bionic
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1764558 in mutter (Ubuntu) "Window buttons icon effect isn't applied to mutter decorations" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1764558
<Trevinho> jbicha: let me look at it, I just wanted to find a proper way to reproduce
<jbicha> ok, I can wait :)
<willcooke> night all
<hyperair> hey does the gtk-color-scheme key in org.gnome.desktop.interface no longer work on gtk2 applications?
<hyperair> i seem to hae lost my gtk2 color scheme customizations after upgrading from artful to bionic :/
<oSoMoN> have a good evening everyone
<robert_ancell> jbicha, looks like the updated image didn't work in bug 1768557
<ubot5> bug 1768557 in gnome-initial-setup (Ubuntu Bionic) "Update what's new graphic for Welcome to Ubuntu wizard" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1768557
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-05-11
<jbicha> robert_ancell: it didn't happen in cosmic either
<jbicha> oh never mind, there were updates, it works in ubuntu10
<robert_ancell> jbicha, I didn't realize the text had changed, so I updated my translation page
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> Morning oSoMoN, didrocks
<oSoMoN> hey duflu, didrocks
<oSoMoN> happy Friday!
<jamesh> hi oSoMoN, duflu
<duflu> lo jamesh
<oSoMoN> hey jamesh
<didrocks> hey duflu, oSoMoN, jamesh happy Friday!
<willcooke> morning
<willcooke> duflu, are you aware of any palm detection issues on macbooks (running 18.04 upgraded from 17.10)?
<duflu> willcooke, nope. I also don't have Ubuntu on a Macbook right now
<duflu> But I did prepare USB sticks for that last night :)
<willcooke> :)
<duflu> willcooke, one note about upgrades though - upgraders are likely to be using the synaptics driver, not libinput
<willcooke> Peter (in Design/Web) asked me yesterday, what he described sounded generally like palm detection wasnt working
<didrocks> hey willcooke
<willcooke> duflu, ah yeah, that's what I thought
<duflu> They can uninstall synaptics and try libinput at their leisure
<willcooke> duflu, should I ask him to switch? Or do you know if the macbook needs synaptics?  He has libinput installed, I asked him to check
<willcooke> kk, I'll get him to uninstall and see what happens
<willcooke> hi didrocks
<duflu> willcooke, I have no idea about the state of Macbooks. I have only been working with the Magic Trackpad (on a Lenovo) recently
<duflu> And it seems Apple's touchpads change frequently enough that you can't assume the two are similar
<willcooke> kk
<willcooke> I'll get him to remove and reboot and see what happens
<duflu> willcooke, changes like that in https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/wayland-devel/2018-May/038052.html are bound to the specific device ID, so will not affect Macbooks at all
<duflu> Although that's not what you're asking... there is a world of potential difference when switching from one driver to the other
<willcooke> easy enough to try it and find out
<duflu> willcooke, worth noting also that only synaptics is easy for users to tweak (run synclient)
<duflu> *to tweak advanced things like palm rejection
<Laney> werd
<willcooke> ahoy Laney
 * Laney nods willcooke 
<didrocks> hey Laney
<Laney> what up didrocks
<Laney> WAIT
<Laney> (/me checks 'cal')
<Laney> happy friday!
<Laney> oh, Shell tells me the day, no need to use 1970s unix tools ...
<willcooke> Can I start the VPN, copy what I need and disconnect it again quick enough for freenode not to notice?
<willcooke> here goes
<willcooke> muhahaha
<amano> @chrisccoulson: Firefox 60 isn't localized in german for me. And it hasn't for the whole 60-cycle on the firefox-next PPA. Is that a problem with my machine? Or is that known?
<ubot5-ng> amano: Error: "chrisccoulson:" is not a valid command.
<amano> chrisccoulson, ricotz: Firefox 60 isn't localized in german for me. And it hasn't for the whole 60-cycle on the firefox-next PPA. Is that a problem with my machine? Or is that known?
<oSoMoN> chrisccoulson, any chance you'll publish the chromium-browser 66.0.3359.139 update to {bionic,artful,xenial}-security today?
 * Laney fills in some examples on the git wiki page
<tsimonq2> Psst, we have #ubuntu-flavors now if anyone is interested. ;)
<willcooke> night all
<oSoMoN> time for a beer and a week-end
<oSoMoN> have a good one everyone
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-05-12
<octoquad> Hi, is there a way to disable gdm3 on tty1 when ldm is running on tty7? This is an LTSP fat client environment on 18.04. Completely disabling gdm3 prevents the lock screen from working.
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-05-06
<Croran> I am having some trouble with using the Alt key for keyboard shortcuts in Bionic.
<Croran> running sudo showkey -k in a termal and then pressing Alt+PrtSc shows a press and release for keycode 56 (Alt) before another press for Alt and then press and release for PrtSc and then release for Alt.
<Croran> I didn't press Alt twice, so there should only be one release. I hope that gives someone a clue to help me.
<Croran> I do have multiple keyboard 'languages' installed - English (US), and English (US, Intl, with dead keys), but I have English (US) currently selected.
<robert_ancell> jamesh, any feedback you want to give on https://github.com/snapcore/snapd-glib/pull/64 ?
<gitbot> snapcore issue (Pull request) 64 in snapd-glib "Support new /v2/interfaces&select= API, deprecate old API" [Open]
<robert_ancell> I changed a few small things, but it's mostly your original branch.
<jamesh> robert_ancell: looks good.  I never got around to trying to extend the snapd side of the API to provide the info I wanted, which is why my PR languished
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> Morning didrocks
<didrocks> hey duflu
<seb128> hey didrocks, duflu, good morning desktopers
<didrocks> salut seb128
<seb128> didrocks, en forme ? passÃ© un bon w.e ?
<jibel> hi all
<ricotz> hey desktopers
<ricotz> I am hoping dealing with armagadd-on-2.0 is top priority
<ricotz> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/1827727
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1827727 in Mozilla Firefox "All plugins disabled due to expired cert" [Critical,Confirmed]
<didrocks> seb128: oreilles trÃ¨s bof, sinon Ã§a va, et toi ?
<didrocks> salut jibel
<seb128> didrocks, :-(
<seb128> hey jibel, had a good w.e?
<seb128> hey ricotz
<didrocks> hey ricotz
<ricotz> seb128, didrocks, hi
<seb128> ricotz, Oliver and chrisccoulson were discussing it over the w.e so I guess it is
<ricotz> ok, no one is to blame here, except mozilla :(
<jibel> seb128, Ã§a a Ã©tÃ© et toi?
<seb128> w.e tranquille ici
<seb128> ricotz, I wonder how they managed to screw like that :-/
<duflu> Oh hi seb128
<seb128> hey duflu, had a good w.e? how is monday going so far?
<duflu> seb128, the weekend was productive but uneventful. I fixed things and I cleaned things. Same today really. You?
<seb128> w.e was nice, we still were in the north of France at my gf's place, didn't do much out but it was relaxing. We drove back yesterday, no issue nor traffic jam which was good. Back to my normal desk today!
<duflu> Sounds nice
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<didrocks> salut oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks
<duflu> Hi oSoMoN
<seb128> lut oSoMoN, en forme ? bon w.e ?
<oSoMoN> hi duflu
<oSoMoN> salut seb128 ! trÃ¨s bon week-end au sud de la Catalogne, premier bain de mer de lâannÃ©e :) et toi?
<seb128> oSoMoN, bon w.e, dans le nord de la France par contre et 11Â°C donc pas de quoi se baigner ... ;)
<jibel> petit joueur ;)
<Nafallo> o/
<oSoMoN> salut jibel, hey Nafallo
<Nafallo> hehe. found the workaround for the firefox bug in the ticket atleast ;-)
<oSoMoN> Nafallo, do you mean bug #1827727 ?
<ubot5`> bug 1827727 in Mozilla Firefox "All plugins disabled due to expired cert" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1827727
<ricotz> oSoMoN, hi, please upload ff 66.0.4 build3
<oSoMoN> on it
<ricotz> okay
<Nafallo> oSoMoN: yeah, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/1827727/comments/22
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1827727 in Mozilla Firefox "All plugins disabled due to expired cert" [Critical,Confirmed]
<Nafallo> just need to remember to require signatures again when the package is updated :-)
<oSoMoN> Nafallo, mozilla rolled out an updated certificate via the Normandy mechanism, you should have gotten it without the need to do anything on your part, provided you didn't disable Normandy in your settings (it's enabled by default)
<Nafallo> hmm. well, I definately had the bug before I changed things. how can I check if Normandy worked?
<Nafallo> app.normandy.first_run = false
<Nafallo> .enabled = true
<tomreyn> about:studies would list a 'study' referring to the mozilla bugzilla id
<Nafallo> pref-flip-search-composition-57-release-1413565 only one on the list
<Nafallo> we do alter settings as part of our corporate install though ;-)
<tomreyn> i think you also need app.shield.optoutstudies.enabled;true (which should be the same as "Allow Firefox to install and run studies" at about:preferences#privacy i *think*
<Nafallo> pref("datareporting.policy.dataSubmissionEnabled", false); â this could be related :-)
<Nafallo> but yeah, rather than attempting to change policy, I'll wait for the .4 update ;-)
<oSoMoN> Nafallo, I'm preparing it at the moment
<Nafallo> :-)
<dupondje> Nafallo: https://storage.googleapis.com/moz-fx-normandy-prod-addons/extensions/hotfix-update-xpi-intermediate@mozilla.com-1.0.2-signed.xpi
<dupondje> you can just install this :)
<Nafallo> dupondje: ta :-)
<GunnarHj> https://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2019/05/03/%23ubuntu-desktop.html#t12:03
<GunnarHj> seb128, sil2100: Please see my question about possible langpack update. ^
<seb128> GunnarHj, hey, Lukazs is around today, also I'm unsure it's of high importance in a non LTS cycle
<seb128> I mean it would be nice to fix, but if it's not fixed it's also not the end of the world
<seb128> it's a non LTS and most user understand english and that's not an UI you use every day
<GunnarHj> seb128: Yeah, it's to determine the importance I asked you. Let's sil2100 decide.
<sil2100> GunnarHj: hey! Looking
<sil2100> GunnarHj: hm, I guess it's something worth consideration, but more like something to do if there's any free cycles
<sil2100> GunnarHj: problem is also that we'd either have to do it tranditionally, with a call-for-testing and such, which as we know will result in possibly only 3-4 languages being updated
<sil2100> Or risk it with updating all, since we have no automation set up for the testing
<Trevinho> morning ppl
<seb128> good morning trevinho, how are you? had a good w.e?
<Trevinho> seb128: yeah, good one. Great sightseeing in oaxaca area, thanks... yours?
<seb128> was nice, in the north of france, most relaxed which was good
<Trevinho> I went to "hierve el agua", which are infinity natural pools. Amazing.
<GunnarHj> sil2100: True. To address this issue it would be sufficient to update the language-pack-gnome-$LANG files only.
<GunnarHj> sil2100: Btw, you mentioned a while ago that you'd bring up the testing approach for langpack updates at a sprint. Did you ever do that, and if so, what was the reaction?
<seb128> Trevinho, nice :)
<seb128> trevinho, https://code.launchpad.net/~khurshid-alam/indicator-appmenu/ignore-desktop/+merge/366990 is probably for you to review
<seb128> trevinho, oh and well done fixing that gnome-shell ellipsizing issue ;-)
<Trevinho> seb128: oh well was easy enough actually... But incredible how a "typo" was preserved for so many releases
<teward> anyone have the timeline for Firefox updates?
<teward> someone in #ubuntu was asking since the latest 66.0.4 firefox came out < 24 hours ago
<sarnold> teward: it looks like builds are in progress https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozilla-security/+archive/ubuntu/ppa/+packages
<teward> trust sarnold to always know things lol
<sarnold> man I'd be lost without my firefox history..
<sarnold> (seriously, that's half the friction keeping me from trying qutebrowser.. the knowledge that (a) i'd need to bring over my entire firefox history to qute before using it (b) that I'd need to figure out some way to bring my entire qute history over to firefox when I'm inevitably dissapointed and try to switch back)
<JanC> seems like gnome shell in 19.04 also crashes if you have "world clocks" configured (so anybody who had those configured in cosmic won't be able to log in after upgrading to disco)
<sarnold> ow :(
<JanC> or anybody who configures those after is locked out on reboot/relogin, it seems
<JanC> something I've mentioned before: I really don't understand why some JavaScript is allowed to crash the desktop so easily
<JanC> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1827953
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1827953 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "when you have "world clocks" configured (e.g. from the Gnome Clocks application), Gnome Shell crashes on login, resulting in a login loop" [Undecided,New]
<sarnold> JanC: could you put in that that worked in .. bionic? cosmic? and dies in disco -- that'd probably help whoever looks at it
<JanC> I used that in previous versions, yes
<JanC> it's sort of explicit from where I mention it crashes if you had it configured before upgrading  :)
<JanC> and the "expected behaviour" is how it worked before
<sarnold> JanC: woot, thanks!
<JanC> I clarified that a bit
<JanC> I often chat with people on the US east coast, west coast, in between, Pakistan, Australia, etc.
<JanC> so it's useful to have quick acces to their local time sometimes  ;)
<sarnold> yeah, one page of my android launcher is devoted entirely to the clock.. ten different timezones on the thing (counting mine)
<JanC> Gnome Shell really needs to get a somewhat stable API
<JanC> I've seen Gnome Shell crash because some extension used an API version current-2 (so 1 year or so) function
<JanC> 1 year old
<JanC> also see what I mentioned in here yesterday (quite some people end up with that login loop on upgrade because some extension crashes)
<JanC> because some extension crashes Gnome Shell
<sarnold> double-ow :(
<JanC> I didn't file a bug on that yet because I wasn't sure what caused my crash/loop, but looking at sites like AskUbuntu they mention a couple extensions that cause issues
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-05-07
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<jibel> salut seb128, Ã§a va?
<seb128> lut jibel, ouais bien, et toi ?
<jibel> bien bien, merci
<duflu> Morning seb128, jibel
<seb128> hey duflu, how are you?
<duflu> seb128, considering I hardly slept, going OK. Expect to crash later. You?
<seb128> oh :(
<duflu> I feel good still so it's fine
<seb128> I didn't sleep enough, got woken up at 4am and didn't manage to really get back to sleep :/
<seb128> let's see how the day goes
<jibel> hi duflu
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> Morning didrocks
<seb128> lut didrocks! comment Ã§a va ?
<jibel> salut didrocks
<didrocks> hey duflu, seb128, jibel
<didrocks> seb128: un peu mieux qu'hier niveau oreille (relativement parlant hein), et toi ?
<seb128> Ã§a va, me suis fait rÃ©veiller en milieu de nuit et j'ai eu du mal Ã  me rendormir donc un peu fatiguÃ© ce matin
<seb128> coffe is going to resolve it, no worry :)
<didrocks> heh
<seb128> trevinho, stop unassigning andyrock from bugs please
<seb128> Trevinho, I would prefer to be able to see what he assigned and find other owners for work we signed up for doing, rather than loosing the info
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<didrocks> salut oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks, Ã§a va?
<duflu> Morning oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> hey duflu
 * oSoMoN -> school, bbiab
<didrocks> oSoMoN: Ã§a va, et toi ?
<oSoMoN> didrocks, trÃ¨s bien
<marcustomlinson> good morning all
<duflu> Morning marcustomlinson
<oSoMoN> morning marcustomlinson
<willcooke> morning all
<duflu> Morning willcooke
<willcooke> afternoon duflu, how goes?
<duflu> willcooke, good news in that I am now back to working on pre-Brussels work I hadn't finished
<willcooke> heh
<duflu> How are you feeling now willcooke?
<willcooke> still not 100%, but getting better
<willcooke> I blame the plane
<duflu> Yep
<oSoMoN> good morning willcooke
<willcooke> hi oSoMoN
<didrocks> hey willcooke
<willcooke> morning didrocks
<Laney> yo thar
<didrocks> hey Laney, good Monday off?
<Laney> hey didrocks
<duflu> Morning Laney
<Laney> yep, lazy one :>
<Laney> yo duflu
<pieq> Hey everyone
<seb128> hey willcooke Laney
<seb128> hey pieq
<seb128> willcooke, do you feel better?
<willcooke> hi seb128, pieq
<willcooke> and Laney
<pieq> I was playing with the grub menu configuration today and I was wondering why we don't have something a little bit more fancy in the live USB menu and later, if for instance the user has a dual boot or something like this
<willcooke> seb128, getting there, but still not cured.
<seb128> :(
<didrocks> hey pieq
<seb128> pieq, #ubuntu-devel might be a better channel to talk about grub, it's more foundation than desktop material
<Laney> think those are generated statically, not sure how much scope there would be to do fancy dynamic stuff
<Laney> but that channel indeed
<Laney> moin willcooke seb128
<Laney> willcooke: you spent the bank holiday being sick? :'(((((((((((
<pieq> seb128, thanks!
<willcooke> Laney, yeah, and a day I booked off on Friday
<Laney> ahh
<Laney> I think you could probably reclaim that day of PTO
<Laney> https://www.gov.uk/taking-sick-leave second paragraph
<Laney> thanks gov.uk
<Laney> thov.uk
<seb128> :)
<pieq> Laney, whoo, that's pretty cool!
<seb128> kenvandine, jamesh, Laney, marcustomlinson, weekly summary reminder (I know most of you had monday off, but you could have written it on friday! ;)
<marcustomlinson> literally just hit submit :P
<jamesh> okay.
<seb128> marcustomlinson, thx :)
<seb128> jamesh, thx!
<Laney> dunno about you but I'm not thinking about that on a friday
<Laney> and yes, already writing it
<Laney> I've seen the community hub notifying when people are writing posts
<seb128> it does?
<seb128> yeah, I'm usually not thinking about it on friday either, in theory we said in the team discussion that it can be written during the week and should posted before monday, so earlier in monday is off ... but it's minor don't worry
<seb128> in practice we don't get much feedback/questions for the eastern people anyway
<seb128> duflu, trevinho, looks like apport doesn't catch errors like https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-shell/issues/1062 ... I wonder if we could make it aware of JS errors in some way
<gitbot> GNOME issue 1062 in gnome-shell "Crash for certain entries in org.gnome.clocks world-clocks" [1. Crash, Closed]
<seb128> JS ERROR: TypeError: b.location.get_timezone(...) is null
<duflu> seb128, not at all, or just not readable?
<seb128> duflu, not at all, apport has no handler to catch those
<seb128> I get nothing in apport.log or /var/crash when I hit that bug
<seb128> which is expected, apport does handle coredumps
<duflu> Hmm
<seb128> there is none in that scenario
<seb128> unsure how the pythong integration works but we would probably need something similar in js
<duflu> seb128, the upstream bug suggests gnome-shell exits instead of crashing ("App 'org.gnome.Shell.desktop' exited with code 1")
<seb128> right
<seb128> still you get no session/way to log in
<seb128> we would like to know about those issues
<duflu> Yeah
<seb128> or maybe gnome-shell should assert() rather than exit in those cases
<seb128> I don't know enough about the topic to have an opinion on what is right
<seb128> I'm going to add a trello card to our backlog though
<duflu> seb128, looks like maybe GjsContextPrivate::eval ?
<duflu> is exiting
<seb128> could be, I didn't look into the code details
<Laney> python has an exception hook that you can hang your code onto
<seb128> could we do something similar to gjs? (and do we want apport noise for any js exception?)
<seb128> anyway, probably not a technically discussion useful to have here/with me
<seb128> I'm going to add that backlog card
<Laney> dunno
<duflu> seb128, I'm not entirely sure it's a good idea to automatically report those. errors.ubuntu.com will group ANY JS exception under the same error signature
<Laney> would discuss that with ptomato
<seb128> duflu, it's not true for python, the signature include the functions in the stacktrace?
<Laney> you'd be able to set fields of the problem report as you wanted
<duflu> This is JavaScript
<Laney> the handler constructs the error report, given access to the exception
<duflu> Ah yes, I forgot I had seen those
<seb128> duflu, Laney, https://trello.com/c/FdmSCCH6/135-gnome-shell-exiting-on-a-js-error-doesnt-trigger-apport
<Laney> thx
<duflu> Cool. I was thinking the other day we still have some "crashes don't create crash reports" problems
<seb128> trevinho, ^ that bug is probably worth doing another SRU upload imho, well I tagged it rls-dd-incoming so we can discuss it in the meeting later
<seb128> but basically you add a world location and you get no way to log into your session anymore (unless you know how to go to a vt and reset the right gsettings key)
<willcooke> 19.04 is live in the Hyper V quick create gallery
<willcooke> good work kenvandine
<kenvandine> :)
<marcustomlinson> nice!
<kenvandine> seb128: i posted mine 5 days ago :)
<kenvandine> but that's not complete
<seb128> kenvandine, good morning, thx :)
<seb128> kenvandine, it failed? I see no post from you
<duflu> Heh. It must be dinner time then
<duflu> Night
<willcooke> see you duflu
<seb128> Laney, trevinho, should we sync the new gjs 1.56 from experimental to eoan or did you want to stick on what we have for a bit to e.g facilate SRUs or something
<Laney> no plans, syncing sounds good to me
<seb128> thx
<Laney> I more than half considered trying to do it for disco
<Laney> but in the end moved away from it
<seb128> :)
<seb128> tjaalton, similar question for vulkan-loader, any reason to not sync the update from experimental? (did you put it there for stability reason or for unstable-frezze reasons)?
<tjaalton> freeze reasons
<tjaalton> no reason not to sync I think
<tjaalton> seb128: ^
<seb128> tjaalton, thx, I'm syncing then :)
<GunnarHj> Hi oSoMoN, I noticed your update of chromium-browser which fixes bug #1825497. Are SRUs in pipeline?
<ubot5`> bug 1825497 in chromium-browser (Ubuntu) "flash player does not work in chromium" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1825497
<oSoMoN> GunnarHj, yes, they are ready and should hit the -security and -updates pockets soon
<GunnarHj> oSoMoN: Great, thanks! Looked in -proposed and the queues; not familiar with how security updates are accomplished.
<seb128> k, that day and time again!
<seb128> #startmeeting Desktop Team Meeting - 2019-05-07
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue May  7 13:30:49 2019 UTC.  The chair is seb128. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/RHiGQXZJ/ubuntu-desktop-1904-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Meeting - 2019-05-07 | Current topic:
<seb128> Roll call: didrocks, duflu (out), jamesh (out), jibel, kenvandine, laney, marcustomlinson, oSoMoN, tkamppeter, trevinho, robert_ancell (out)
<marcustomlinson> \o
<didrocks> hey
<kenvandine> \o
<seb128> no andyrock this time, if you read that log we miss you!
<seb128> anyway, let's get started
<kenvandine> :(
<seb128> #topic rls-bb-bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/RHiGQXZJ/ubuntu-desktop-1904-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Meeting - 2019-05-07 | Current topic: rls-bb-bugs
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> no desktop entry
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> bug #1715365 is targetted and unassigned
<ubot5`> bug 1715365 in gnome-session (Ubuntu Bionic) "gnome-session-check-accelerated crashed with SIGSEGV in g_hash_table_lookup_node() from g_hash_table_lookup() from lookup_cached_xatom() from gdk_x11_atom_to_xatom_for_display()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1715365
<seb128> Daniiieeeelll
<willcooke> o/
<seb128> sorry, was looking at the bug/commit description
<seb128> "g-s-check-acceleration: don't crash on X11 with nested wayland " doesn't seem like an rls issue
<seb128> at the same time it has a patch and would be nice to SRU
<seb128> I would vote -1 for bionic targetting but it's a nice SRU candidate if anyone wants to own it
<seb128> what others think?
<seb128> or do somewant want to own the SRU and get that fix in bionic?
<tseliot> o/
<seb128> hey tseliot
<seb128> it's clear nap time around :p
 * oSoMoN is reading that bug
<didrocks> under a big warm cover :)
<kenvandine> :)
<seb128> ok, so noone has an opinion
 * Trevinho shows up 
<seb128> I'm deleting the bionic line
<oSoMoN> yeah, +1 for untargetting and a good SRU candidate
<seb128> it can go through the rls-bb-incoming process if someone think it should
<didrocks> yep
<Trevinho> looks something we can delay yes
<seb128> (sorry was commenting on the bug)
<willcooke> +1 delay
 * willcooke is slow
<seb128> next
<seb128> bug #1798961
<ubot5`> bug 1798961 in linux (Ubuntu Disco) "Random unrecoverable freezes on Ubuntu 18.10" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1798961
<willcooke> the word "random" triggers me
<seb128> the bug got targetted from the kernel side
<seb128> I'm going to Invalid the intel part
<seb128> unless they prove it's there and reopen
<Laney> sounds good
<willcooke> +1
<seb128> bug #1827284
<ubot5`> bug 1827284 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu Bionic) "No animation when GNOME Activities overview is opened" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1827284
<seb128> Daniiieeelll
<willcooke> -1
<willcooke> for B
<willcooke> and E
<seb128> sounds like it might be a SRU regression in B
<Laney> did nobody speak to him yet or what?
<seb128> I did mention it but maybe he didn'"t pay much attention, I'm going to write an email after the meeting
<didrocks> I would be +1 for fixing as well
<seb128> I'm going to assign to Daniel this one, at least to have details of when it regressed in bionic and what are the options
<seb128> (f*** launchpad which timeout and gives me a red box over firefox as an error)
<kenvandine> :/
<seb128> k, will edit those after the meeting
<seb128> that's it for the unassigned & non-fix-commited in bionic
<seb128> #topic rls-cc-bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/RHiGQXZJ/ubuntu-desktop-1904-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Meeting - 2019-05-07 | Current topic: rls-cc-bugs
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-cc-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> empty
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-cc-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> only the intel one we just discussed and is invalid now
<seb128> #topic rls-dd-bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/RHiGQXZJ/ubuntu-desktop-1904-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Meeting - 2019-05-07 | Current topic: rls-dd-bugs
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-dd-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> bug #1827953
<ubot5`> bug 1827953 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "when you have "world clocks" configured (e.g. from the Gnome Clocks application), Gnome Shell crashes on login, resulting in a login loop" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1827953
<kenvandine> that looks nasty
<seb128> I tagged that earlier, adding a location in gnome-clocks is enough to lead to a non working desktop
<seb128> can't logging anymore
<seb128> unless you know to go to a vt and reset that specific gsettings key
<willcooke> seems a good candidate to me
<seb128> so I vote +1 to fix
<willcooke> +1
<Laney> that got cherry picked to gnome 3.32 today, so it'll be in the next one
<Laney> do you think it should be done off cycle?
<seb128> it's fixed upstream
<seb128> I asked them to commit to 3.32
<seb128> ah, they did, good :)
<Laney> it is already
 * Laney did the merge request for that, easy way to get it done :>
<seb128> thx
<seb128> I would vote +1 to do another upload only for that
<seb128> it's probably not a lot of people because we don't install gnome-clocks by default
<Trevinho> +1
<seb128> but still, it pretty much screws your computer if you are non tech
<seb128> even if you have tech, it took me a bit to find the right gsettings key to reset
<seb128> have->are
<Laney> resetting the current SRU or waiting for it?
<seb128> trevinho, I assign to you if it's ok?
<Laney> ah no not in yet
<Trevinho> ok
<Laney> ah no no it is
<seb128> Laney, trevinho, I let you up to you if you want to request the SRU team to hijack the previous upload and reset the counter
<seb128> I think it can wait until next week in the queue
<seb128> or if we upload today we can ask them to approve it directly
<seb128> that would only delay by 1 day since the previous got accepted yesterday
<seb128> anyway, up to you guys
<seb128> that was the only dd-incoming
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-dd-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> bug #1823167
<ubot5`> bug 1823167 in tracker-miners (Ubuntu Eoan) "/usr/lib/tracker/tracker-extract 31 -> chdir -> do_exec -> fork_exec_with_fds -> fork_exec_with_pipes -> g_spawn_async_with_pipes" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1823167
<seb128> 588 reports on disco
<Laney> that was already accepted
<Laney> let's not discuss it again
<Laney> give it a new assignee
<seb128> k
<didrocks> yeah, I guess the +1 was already done, just need a new assignee
<seb128> it needs another owner to take over andyrock
<seb128> just an upstream commit to chery pick
<seb128> didrocks, want to do it?
<seb128> (just picking people in turn, you are off the hook for the next ones then ;)
 * didrocks reminds he wasn't in favor in adding tracking :p
<seb128> ahah
<didrocks> so whoever wanted to do it :)
<didrocks> but I can have a look
<seb128> thx
<didrocks> and see how it goes
<seb128> I can write the SRU description
<seb128> you just need to cherry pick and dput
<seb128> k
<seb128> the other ones on that list are handled
<seb128> #topic rls-ee-bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/RHiGQXZJ/ubuntu-desktop-1904-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Meeting - 2019-05-07 | Current topic: rls-ee-bugs
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ee-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> bug 1809407
<ubot5`> bug 1809407 in mutter (Ubuntu) "[nvidia] Corrupted wallpaper after resuming from suspend" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1809407
<seb128> seeing the duplicates list I vote +1
<seb128> (probably worth SRUing as well once we have a fix)
<willcooke> that patch is via system76, they've distro patched
<seb128> that non patch
<willcooke> +1 from me
<seb128> upstream is still open without a proper mp
<seb128> and they labelled their patch as "work around"
<seb128> anyway
<willcooke> interesting
<seb128> Daniel pinged Jonas about it, he seems ot have an idea what the problem is
<seb128> so I'm assigning to him
<willcooke> +1 thx
<Trevinho> yeah code isn't exactly the best
<Trevinho> so +1 in more upstream approved stuff
<seb128> bug #1821415
<ubot5`> bug 1821415 in policykit-1 (Ubuntu) "pkexec fails in a non-graphical environment" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1821415
<seb128> bdmurray tagged it
<seb128> but that doesn't seem like a release problem to me
<seb128> the bug description is about the plymouth apport hook under a non graphical session
<seb128> I think it's pretty a non-standard-user problem
<seb128> others?
<seb128> k, doing a notfixing then
<didrocks> yeah, agreed
<oSoMoN> it'd be interesting to check how many packages ship apport hooks that use that function
<willcooke> agreed
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ee-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<Laney> quite niche indeed
<seb128> bug #1815889 on that list
<Laney> could hint brian to go chase upstream if he wants
<ubot5`> bug 1815889 in qemu (Ubuntu Eoan) "qemu-system-x86_64 crashed with signal 31 in __pthread_setaffinity_new()" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1815889
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> ^ that is fixed, just didn't get close for eoan
<seb128> bug #1819615
<ubot5`> bug 1819615 in OEM Priority Project "For additional hardware support, modemmanager needs to be upgraded to 1.10 on Bionic" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1819615
<seb128> tkamppeter, kenvandine, ^ for you?
<kenvandine> yes
<kenvandine> i am uploading that today
<seb128> thx
<seb128> the tracker one we talked about
<seb128> that's it for bugs
<seb128> #topic update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/RHiGQXZJ/ubuntu-desktop-1904-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Meeting - 2019-05-07 | Current topic: update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
<seb128> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
<seb128> seems in shape, just entries from today
<Laney> all good
<seb128> thx Laney :)
<willcooke> woo
<seb128> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/RHiGQXZJ/ubuntu-desktop-1904-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Meeting - 2019-05-07 | Current topic: AOB
<seb128> other topics?
<didrocks> none for me
<willcooke> I have an OEM request
<willcooke> fwupd 1.2.5 is required in B ASAP.  seb128 I think you were looking at that one, so we can take it off line
<seb128> yes, I'm trying to help
<seb128> thanks for the reminder :)Ã 
<willcooke> :)
<willcooke> thank *you*
<seb128> let's talk outside the meeting, no need to have the team for it
<seb128> np!
<willcooke> +1
<willcooke> thats all
<seb128> k
<seb128> 3
<Laney> WAIT
<seb128> yes?
<Trevinho> ohoh!
<Laney> we stopped checking on assigned rls bugs
<Laney> was that on purpose?
<seb128> willcooke, ^
<seb128> you sent a bunch of emails
<seb128> (which I don't think got much traction, but that's another topic)
<willcooke> I will start that again
<seb128> I think the answer is *no* and that we neds to go back to do something about it
<willcooke> I will script it this time
<seb128> willcooke, let's try to work on some of those nagging bots next week if we find free slots
<seb128> Laney, thx for the reminder!
<Laney> thx
<willcooke> seb128, cool
<seb128> k
<seb128> counter reset, last chance for others :p
<seb128> 3
<seb128> .
<seb128> 2
<seb128> .
<seb128> 1
<seb128> .
<seb128> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/RHiGQXZJ/ubuntu-desktop-1904-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue May  7 14:10:58 2019 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2019/ubuntu-desktop.2019-05-07-13.30.moin.txt
<seb128> thanks everyone!
<oSoMoN> thanks
<cpaelzer> seb128: wow you even count half seconds
<seb128> :)
<Trevinho> thanks...
<cpaelzer> on the qemu bug that was linked above, the plan is to merge a qemu which is fixed in eoan and then you can drop the delta we carry
<willcooke> thanks
<seb128> trevinho, good morning :) how are you?
<seb128> cpaelzer, ah ok, good to know
<seb128> cpaelzer, thx
<cpaelzer> expect somewhen in july for an ETA
<cpaelzer> that is the reason the qemu task is still open
<cpaelzer> and you will get an update to the bug once that flips
<seb128> ah ok, I'm going to reopen and assign to Timo then
<rayfun> hi, does anyone have an idea where this annoying livepatch applet is coming from and how to turn it off? https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2418468&p=13857862
<oSoMoN> willcooke, didrocks: I'd welcome your opinion on bug #1827948
<ubot5`> bug 1827948 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "Use libreoffice-style-breeze as the default icon theme" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1827948
<oSoMoN> (do we have a reference visual designer for the desktop who could chime in, too?)
<didrocks> oSoMoN: I think it should go through mpt who is our point of contact
<didrocks> oSoMoN: FYI, frederik is one of the Yaru main contributor :)
<oSoMoN> I know, but I'm keen on hearing from others
<didrocks> trying to invoke clobrano maybe ;)
<marcustomlinson> willcooke: I'll add those screenshots
<willcooke> oSoMoN, commented on the bug.  A before and after would be useful, and then mpt is the best person to comment.  Looks good to me, but would like to see a before and after (without having to do any work myself :) )
<willcooke> thanks marcustomlinson
<clobrano> a wild clobrano appears
<clobrano> oSoMoN, didrock: cool I have no idea of  bug #1827948 :D
<ubot5`> bug 1827948 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "Use libreoffice-style-breeze as the default icon theme" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1827948
<oSoMoN> willcooke, marcustomlinson: thanks
<didrocks> :)
<clobrano> oSoMoN: I don't really know, breeze looks a bit cold respect colorful elementary
<clobrano> but I have no strong opinion about it
<clobrano> maybe it's just a matter of getting used to
<marcustomlinson> screenshots added
<oSoMoN> clobrano, interesting, that was my first knee-jerk reaction too, I found it too symbolic, but of course like any change this would take some getting used to
<clobrano> oSoMoN: I added the same comment on launchpad
<oSoMoN> marcustomlinson, nice set of screenshots, thanks!
<oSoMoN> now that I see them side by side, elementary icons almost look too colourful :)
<willcooke> marcustomlinson, +1 to oSoMoN, thanks!
<willcooke> I will ask m_pt to comment, but he's on hols atm. Might take a week or two
<seb128> oSoMoN, clobrano, it's tricky, the elementary is more colored but also feels like a bit more "cahotic"
<seb128> like less aligned/lean
<seb128> but a bit of color is also nice...
<Wimpress> jbicha: I see you are one of the uploaders for libwnck3 to Debian.
<Wimpress> Any chance you could upload libwnck 3.32.0? Is have a new feature for MATE.
<seb128> Wimpress, jbicha is not around much anymore, he had to focus on other things than free software
<seb128> you might want to find someone else
<Wimpress> seb128: OK, thanks.
<Laney> Trevinho: ce3f91130672d24b114bfe96a54db6d3893be183 seems like pointless delta since the symbol is in all subsequent releases
<Laney> for b154de179b5d063103bf958fb30e4544e2527d55 I can understand it if we don't fix that in cosmic too
<Trevinho> Laney: yeah, but I didn't want SRU team to be alarted by a new symbol
<Laney> that happens?
<Trevinho> alerted*
<Trevinho> not sure, but... Well, we can indee do it for only b154de179b5d063103bf958fb30e4544e2527d55
<Trevinho> I was thinking that since if, will ever happen a 3.28.4, the 1st one will be there anyway
<Laney> cool
<Trevinho> but not to trigger any alert, I decided to hide that too
<Trevinho> but up to you
<Laney> will try with it in, thanks!
<Laney> Trevinho: where are you in the world atm/
<Laney> ?
<Trevinho> Laney: still Oaxaca (till tomorrow)
<willcooke> heh, I thought that was in hex
<Trevinho> willcooke: ahaha, yeah... I still can't say it properly (it's something like "Wakaka")
<Laney> there's a chain of mexican restaurants here called that
<Laney> wahaca...
<Laney> but it is really named after Oaxaca
<Laney> funny
<marcustomlinson> speaking of weird names :P
<Trevinho> Laney: I can imagine how mexican they are :)
<marcustomlinson> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/
<Trevinho> Laney: anyway I've pushed also the fix for bug #1827953 for both master and disco.. together with the ellipsize thing
<ubot5`> bug 1827953 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "when you have "world clocks" configured (e.g. from the Gnome Clocks application), Gnome Shell crashes on login, resulting in a login loop" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1827953
<Trevinho> I guess you saw already the MRs so no need to link, right? :)
<Trevinho> marcustomlinson: Ermine :o
<Trevinho> mh, Italian supreme court judges "favourites" :o
<Trevinho> https://st.ilfattoquotidiano.it/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/ciccolo-mattarella-canzio-675.jpg
<Laney> Trevinho: Florian said a 3.32.2 will happen soon(â¢) once he fixes one more bug, so was thking to wait for that maybe?
<Laney> still other stuff coming in the branch that would be cool to have
 * Trevinho has a different concept of soon :)
 * Trevinho and he's not exactly the on-time person :P
<Laney> well I did ask with "this week"
<Laney> and he said "yes" :P
<Trevinho> cools
<Laney> shell and release schedules ...
<Laney> anyway maybe give them a couple of days
<Laney> if you're ok with that
<Laney> omg
<Laney> I accidentally clicked with my palm and typed my GPG passphrase into IRC
<Laney> caught it in time
<sarnold> "omg" is kind fo short
<Laney> wouldn't it be cool if "I accidentally clicked with my palm and typed my GPG passphrase into IRC" was acutally my passphrase
<Laney> hiding in plain sight
<gQuigs> oSoMoN: any chance we have a rought eta for Firefox 66.0.4 to regular updates?
<sarnold> "hey everyone how's it going"
 * willcooke -> haircut.  Night all
<Laney> Trevinho: does one of the bugs explain the dropped patch from duflu do you know?
<Laney> I guess https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mutter/+bug/1763892
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1763892 in mutter (Ubuntu Bionic) "144Hz/120Hz monitor but mutter seems to cap rendering at 60FPS" [Medium,In progress]
<Laney> BAH
<Laney> missing https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/3.28.3+git20190124-0ubuntu18.04.2 it seems
<clobrano> oSoMoN: I think you're right, let's try it for some days and  see :)
<Laney> ok rebased
<Laney> Trevinho: sponsored!
 * Laney has missed the window to go climbing due to rebase-rebuild-test cycle :(
 * Laney goes off to do something else instead
<Laney> o/
<seb128> Laney, :-(
<seb128> Laney, enjoy your evening!
<Trevinho> Laney: sorry, I was relocating to a coffee shop. So well it was incompatible with the other no? I mentioned in the changelog iirc
<Trevinho> sorry for your climbing :P
<Laney> Trevinho: it just needed to include that patch
<Laney> nm, I don't blame you, I didn't notice either until I downloaded from LP to debdiff
<dupondje> Wanted to try IWD, now it seems like network-manager depends on wpa-supplicant :( meh! :)
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-05-08
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<duflu> Morning oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> hey duflu
<clobrano> good morning all o/
<oSoMoN> good morning clobrano
<duflu> Hi clobrano
<clobrano> hi oSoMoN duflu
<willcooke> what what
<oSoMoN> morning willcooke
<duflu> <alarmed?> Morning willcooke
<willcooke> no alarm, just chipper
<willcooke> although, half the toaster is broken, so not all good news
<Laney> that's better
<willcooke> morning Laney
<duflu> Hi Laney
<seb128> hey willcooke Laney duflu, how are you?
<seb128> lur oSoMoN, en forme ?
<willcooke> morning seb128
<oSoMoN> hi Laney
<oSoMoN> salut seb128, la forme, et toi?
<duflu> Hi seb128. I seem to have a new back injury and not yet caught up on sleep. But otherwise going well.
<duflu> You seb128?
<willcooke> oSoMoN, seb128 - you guys going to swap a mid-week day off for something nearer a weekend?
<seb128> oSoMoN, en forme !
<seb128> duflu, :-( get better!
<seb128> willcooke, I am, it's rainy/crappy weather, gf is working today and I like long w.e better than mid-week stops
<oSoMoN> willcooke, I wish, but 8th of May is not a bank holiday here in Spain
<willcooke> seb128, good plan.  oSoMoN, ah, bad luck
<Laney> moin willcooke duflu seb128 oSoMoN
<Laney> yeah, looks grim out there today
<marcustomlinson> morning oSoMoN duflu clobrano willcooke Laney seb128
<willcooke> ahoy marcustomlinson
<Laney> greetings marcustomlinson
<Laney> your nickname above all others (excluding oSoMoN) makes me thankful for tab completion
<marcustomlinson> haha
<marcustomlinson> yeah oSoMoN is worse though
<marcustomlinson> :P
<duflu> XChat has no problem with case conversion:  os<tab> -> oSoMoN
<duflu> Though it's kind of impersonal to admit to tab-completing someone
<marcustomlinson> you're right duf
<duflu> Strangely that thought reminds me of https://www.thinkgeek.com/product/374d/
<duflu> Morning marcustomlinson
<willcooke> gmail has tab completion for sentences now.  It's actually quite useful.
<duflu> Just let your voodoo doll write the emails
<oSoMoN> good morning marcustomlinson
<seb128> yeah, the gmail thing works quite well
<seb128> that and "stock replies"
<seb128> soon the IA will just respond to your email for you :)
<marcustomlinson> stock replies are just great for passive aggressiveness. Let your recipient know in the nicest way that they're worth nothing more than a single click
<duflu> ð
<seb128> can be useful when you are busy and want to give a simple "ack" reply
<seb128> like you are in a meeting/on the phone and don't want to start typing
 * duflu wonders if the facetious tone was conveyed in that emoji
<Laney> â
<willcooke> :D
<oSoMoN> seb128, marcustomlinson has prepared LO SRUs for xenial and bionic, which include the fix for bug #1820062. This means gstreamer1.0-gtk3 needs to be promoted to main (the source package, gst-plugins-good1.0, is already in main), is that valid for a SRU ?
<ubot5`> bug 1820062 in libreoffice (Ubuntu Cosmic) "LibreOffice Impress embed video problem (libreoffice-gtk3)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1820062
<marcustomlinson> only Bionic
<duflu> Saviq, interesting use of the discourse site with https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/multipass-documentation-outline/8294
<duflu> I can see pros and cons to putting it there
<seb128> oSoMoN, is that only a recommends? I think that's fine in any case, I don't remember now if binaries can be moved between pockets in a stable serie or if that needs a no change upload of gst-plugins-good
<seb128> were are due a gstreamer SRU to get the current point version anyway so that can be promoted with it if needed
<oSoMoN> ok, cooll
<oSoMoN> cool
<marcustomlinson> oSoMoN: did we want this SRU'ed to Xenial too?
<Saviq> duflu: that's how https://docs.snapcraft.io/ is built ;)
<Saviq> http://forum.snapcraft.io/c/doc
<Saviq> there's a bit of churn at the moment, but it will be less busy in the future ;)
<oSoMoN> marcustomlinson, only if xenial is affected by the bug, and from the look of the bug report it's not
<marcustomlinson> yeah
<Laney> git stash poop # nope
<marcustomlinson> XD
<willcooke> night all
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-05-09
<seb128> desktopers, good morning!
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> Hi didrocks
<didrocks> hey duflu
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<duflu> Morning oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> hey duflu
<didrocks> salut oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks
<oSoMoN> duflu, I would welcome your opinion as an input stack expert on bug #1697122
<ubot5`> bug 1697122 in firefox (Ubuntu) "Package Firefox with MOZ_USE_XINPUT2=1 in environment to enable pixel scrolling with touchpad and touch gestures" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1697122
<duflu> oSoMoN, I'm no expert but yes I do believe that feature is long overdue for Firefox
<duflu> Chrome has had it for a while
<duflu> It's what I would now call "high resolution touchpad scrolling". Not to be confused for "smooth scrolling", which is something very different and a hack (IMHO)
<oSoMoN> duflu, thanks, I'll look into enabling that by default with future versions
<marcustomlinson> morning seb128 didrocks duflu oSoMoN \o
<didrocks> good morning marcustomlinson
<oSoMoN> good morning marcustomlinson
<marcustomlinson> oSoMoN: hi! could you please trigger this for me: https://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/request.cgi?release=cosmic&arch=amd64&package=libreoffice&ppa=marcustomlinson/libreoffice&trigger=libreoffice/1:6.1.6-0ubuntu0.18.10.1
<oSoMoN> done
<marcustomlinson> thx
<oSoMoN> duflu, it looks like https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1182700 is still a thing, if it is then we probably shouldn't enable high resolution touchpad scrolling, I'll need to test
<ubot5`> Mozilla bug 1182700 in Widget: Gtk "Wheel scrolling periodically stops working with XInput2" [Normal,Reopened]
<duflu> Morning marcustomlinson
<Wimpress> Morning desktopers o/
<oSoMoN> good morning Wimpress
<oSoMoN> Wimpress, you asked me a while ago to look into a build failure for a chromium armhf optimized build for RPi3, and I never got around to it, is that still relevant?
<Wimpress> oSoMoN: Well, it is something I've got on the back burner.
<Wimpress> That said, Chromium moves faster than patches for the Raspberry Pi can be updated.
<Wimpress> The issue is this, I have to disable ARM thumb for the Pi versions of Chromium builds to complete in LP.
<Wimpress> I've got several patches to disable ARM Thumb for Chromium but...
<Wimpress> It appear ffmpeg is built twice in Chromium.
<Wimpress> I've got ARM Thumb disable for the first build but can't find how to disable the second time around.
<Wimpress> Hard to iterate on because it take ~14 hours for build to fail ;-)
<oSoMoN> Wimpress, yeah, ffmpeg is built twice, once with proprietary_codecs=false and once with proprietary_codecs=true and ffmpeg_branding="Chrome", so we can package chromium-codecs-ffmpeg and chromium-codecs-ffmpeg-extra
<oSoMoN> however the patches should apply to both builds
<oSoMoN> Wimpress, can you point me to a failed build log again?
<Wimpress>  https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-pi-flavour-makers/+archive/ubuntu/crazy-pi/+sourcefiles/chromium-browser/72.0.3626.121-0+rpt4~bionic2.5/chromium-browser_72.0.3626.121-0+rpt4~bionic2.5.dsc
<Wimpress> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-pi-flavour-makers/+archive/ubuntu/crazy-pi/+build/16588758
<seb128> k, back
<seb128> hey those who joined since I was afk :)
<oSoMoN> salut seb128
<seb128> lut oSoMoN, en forme ?
<oSoMoN> oui, et toi?
<seb128> nickel
<Laney> moin
<Laney> was just grepping around in logs over SSH to find out why my keyboard wouldn't work
<Laney> ...the cable had come slightly out /o\
<willcooke> morning
<oSoMoN> morning Laney, willcooke
<didrocks> hey willcooke, seb128, Laney
<willcooke> hihi
<Laney> hey oSoMoN willcooke didrocks
<marcustomlinson> ðð»
<Laney> ahoy marcustomlinson
<marcustomlinson> ahoy
<marcustomlinson> and ahoy willcooke
<willcooke> sup
<marcustomlinson> word...
<marcustomlinson> actually libreoffice calls it writer
<marcustomlinson> https://media.techeblog.com/images/letters.jpg
<duflu> Morning willcooke
<duflu> seb128, just got that email :)
<seb128> duflu, haha
<seb128> lut didrocks
<seb128> hey Laney, nice that you fixed your keyboard *g*
<willcooke> marcustomlinson, XD
<duflu> And morning Laney
<pieq> Hi people! Quick question. With Unity, there was this touchscreen/touchpad shortcut where a 4-finger press would trigger the dash. Is there something similar in Gnome? Looks like in 18.04 there is no such thing anymore.
<duflu> There are some gestures in Gnome but I think they only work in Wayland?
<duflu> And I can't remember what they are
<Laney> yo seb128
<willcooke> I think there was an extension to provide more gestures, but from what I can remember it didnt work very well
<seb128> pieq, no, GNOME doesn't have that atm
<seb128> pieq, well, 3 fingers pitch should open the overvie
<seb128> but only on the touchpad, not on the touch screen I think
<seb128> (pitch->pinch)
<pieq> seb128, 3 finger pinch on the touchscreen indeed shows the overview (on the touchpad it does nothing)
<pieq> thanks for the info!
<seb128> np!
<oSoMoN> marcustomlinson, the LO SRU has been accepted in disco-proposed, well done!
<marcustomlinson> oSoMoN: I saw :)
<marcustomlinson> I'll keep an eye on the build and test when it's ready
<marcustomlinson> ðºð»
<oSoMoN> there are 4 ongoing SRUs for libreoffice, you've set a new record :)
<marcustomlinson> 5 no?
<marcustomlinson> or right 4 affected yes
<marcustomlinson> :P
<willcooke> nice one marcustomlinson
<seb128> why is trello always opening the menu on the "about" subpage for me now, that's annoying :-/
<willcooke> seb128, Doesnt for me.  Did you get a funny URL stuck in your history?
<seb128> willcooke, I don't think so, e.g if I put https://trello.com/b/RHiGQXZJ/ubuntu-desktop-1904-cycle in private browser session it opens the board with the "about this board" column on the right
<seb128> or are the random share that funny URL part?
<willcooke> lemme try that
<willcooke> hm, same in a private session
<willcooke> it must be cookie based
<seb128> k, don't worry about it
<seb128> just an annoyance, I've to click on the <- button every time
<seb128> I will figure it out
<Laney> tkamppeter: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/1754671, if a97a3b256cd6c56ab1d817440d3b8acb3272ee17 fixes it then it sounds like an extra task for systemd on that bug
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1754671 in network-manager (Ubuntu Bionic) "Full-tunnel VPN DNS leakage regression" [High,Fix committed]
<Laney> which you'd probably want to chat to xnox about
<Laney> don't think it'd make the SRU verification-failed though - it doesn't make anything worse without the systemd-resolved fix does it?
<Laney> just needs an extra change to fully solve the bug
<seb128> tkamppeter, if the SRU doesn't create any regression then it's probably fine to talk to the SRU team about letting it in even if it doesn't fix that bug
<seb128> it does fix other problems including other security issues
<Laney> O_O
<seb128> (that was in addition of what Laney said, not instead)
<Laney> :>
<tkamppeter> seb128, OK, I will test the systemd fix now and if it works, I will downgrade nm to the SRU and perhaps also to the original again.
<tkamppeter> and if it works, I will report an SRU bug on it for the systemd maintainer to post an SRU.
<tkamppeter> And also make a remark on the original bug report that to fix it the systemd SRU is needed instead and that for the nm SRU I did at least not find any regressions.
<Laney> might want to be a bit more proactive than that (talk to xnox directly and offer to help prepare the SRU if wanted)
<tkamppeter> Laney. thanks again for spotting the fix. I will try it and contact you and xnox about the result.
<Laney> thx
<oSoMoN> tkamppeter, regarding those n-m autopkgtest failures, they need to be investigated and understood, the tests passed with that same version on 2018-12-21, so something else introduced the regression since then
<xnox> tkamppeter, Laney - yeah =) what's up?
<xnox> what's the bug number?
<Laney> oh hi there
<Laney> Till's seeing about a cherry-pick potentially
<Laney> standby for results
<Laney> bug #1754671 / a97a3b256cd6c56ab1d817440d3b8acb3272ee17
<ubot5`> bug 1754671 in network-manager (Ubuntu Bionic) "Full-tunnel VPN DNS leakage regression" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1754671
 * Laney tried to tab complete a few minutes ago and got no hits, guessing you just joined
<tkamppeter> xnox, bug 1754671 Itseems that the fix has to be done in systemd instead of in nm.
<Laney> otherwise I would have masked the nick out so as to not highlight
<Laney> I think it's maybe "as well as" NM (NM needs to call SetLinkDomains() on resolved, didn't look at the diff but I guess that's what the SRU does on the NM side)
<xnox> Laney, my bouncer died upon upgrade to bionic; now fixed for the meeting time.
<Laney> xnox: well, lovely to have you back :>
<marcustomlinson> kenvandine: added two card to the trello re: my build-snap work. Let me know if they're redundant. I closest card I could find looked a bit broad: https://trello.com/c/1R0lryqL/199-gnome-328-platform-snap
<kenvandine> marcustomlinson: yeah, thanks
<kenvandine> there is a card somewhere for the build snap
<kenvandine> but i can't find it
<kenvandine> maybe it was accidentally archived
<marcustomlinson> You commented on the link above saying you'd use it to track the build-snap work too
<marcustomlinson> maybe that was the card you're thinking of
<kenvandine> oh
<kenvandine> :)
<kenvandine> thanks
<marcustomlinson> Probably better to close that card off as work done for the platform snap, then use the new ones to track the build-snap
<marcustomlinson> imo :)
<marcustomlinson> TM
<xnox> Laney, although i am thinking to switch to the dark side and ditch znc and use weechat only
<kenvandine> marcustomlinson: actually i'm keeping that card :)
<kenvandine> i just moved it
<kenvandine> it includes useful info for what the end goal is
 * kenvandine renames too
<marcustomlinson> kenvandine: ah yes, there is that step too
<marcustomlinson> yes, the platform snap and build-snap need to be in sync, got you
<kenvandine> yeah, so ultimately we want the platform snap to be a subset of the build-snap
<Trevinho> morning
<kenvandine> oSoMoN: when we get USN notification emails for chromium,  a card is created automatically and you'll be added to it
<kenvandine> marcustomlinson: and for libreoffice you'll be added
<kenvandine> usually just means we need a rebuild, test and publication to stable
<marcustomlinson> cool yeah oSoMoN and showed me the ways :)
<kenvandine> once they are in stable, just move then to "USN Refresh Done"
<marcustomlinson> ack
<marcustomlinson> s/and/has
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, ack, that's neat
<kenvandine> oSoMoN: yeah, often when i get those emails I get 10-15 at a time
<kenvandine> i'm tired of trying to keep track of those as i refresh them :)
<kenvandine> tkamppeter: i kicked a rebuild of that autopkgtest
<Laney> doesn't seem that likely to succeed http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/network-manager/bionic/amd64
<Laney> especially given the way it failed
<Laney> nm                   FAIL stderr: /tmp/autopkgtest.gdg9xz/build.ITi/src/debian/tests/nm:23: PyGIWarning: NetworkManager was imported without specifying a version first. Use gi.require_version('NetworkManager', '1.0') before import to ensure that the right version gets loaded.
<kenvandine> Laney: indeed
<tkamppeter> Laney, xnox, seb128: I have now applied Laney's suggested patch to the systemd of Bionic and also downgraded the Bionic's nm back to the SRU (1.10.14), rebooted, tried again, and now all works fine. So we need the systemd SRU in addition. Will add a comment and my debdiff to the bug report.
<Laney> ð¤
<tkamppeter> Laney, xnox, seb128: Bug 1754671 updated.
<ubot5`> bug 1754671 in systemd (Ubuntu Bionic) "Full-tunnel VPN DNS leakage regression" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1754671
<tkamppeter> kenvandine, thanks for the restart of the test.
<Trevinho> Laney: you think would be the case to re-upload https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+git/gnome-shell/+merge/367149 to queue before SRU team get the other in?
<willcooke> night all
<xnox> tkamppeter, tah. will look into it tomorrow.
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-05-10
<didrocks> good morning
<jibel> salut didrocks
<didrocks> Ã§a va jibel ?
<seb128> lut didrocks, matinal ce matin :)
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<didrocks> seb128: comme tous les vendredi oÃ¹ je ne m'occupe pas de Martin
<didrocks> ;)
<seb128> ah, ok :)
<seb128> happy friday!
<didrocks> joyeux vendredi Ã©galement
 * didrocks already reponsded to user's "requiring" some "evident" work
<didrocks> redirected to my blog post explaining why we didn't do this + the hub for the rest
<didrocks> could be good documentation for the future
<jibel> salut seb128
<jibel> cava didrocks et toi?
<seb128> lut jibel!
<didrocks> Ã§a va
<Wimpress> Morning desktopers o/
<duflu> Morning didrocks, jibel, seb128, Wimpress
<Wimpress> duflu: Morning o/
<Wimpress> Ages ago I brought up an issue of DRI3 not working.
<Wimpress> We discussed it on the Ubuntu Discourse.
<duflu> Yeah I saw that yesterday
<Wimpress> I was barking up the wrong tree :-)
<Wimpress> Finally found the fix :-D
<duflu> Odd (but now I have seen that part of the Xorg source), makes sense
<duflu> Wow, that was bad
<duflu> Odd but now I have seen that part of the Xorg source it makes sense
<duflu> Wimpress, in recent months I finally also learned how Xorg manages to tear at all even when the Intel kernel driver now forbids it
<duflu> The answer was: by being dodgy
<duflu> Wimpress, I find it both exciting and scary to think what kind of difference that fix could make to existing distros
<duflu> -distros +releases
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers, happy Friday!
<seb128> lut oSoMoN, happy friday! how is it going?
<oSoMoN> seb128, a bit tired as nights have been short this week, but I'm hoping for a productive day to close the week. you?
<seb128> I'm good, a bit tired as well but it's friday so it's alright :)
<willcooke> morning
<marcustomlinson> morning
<Laney> hi de hi
<willcooke> Today's drama..  one of the LED spot lights in the kitchen has gone.  It can't be more than a year old, but of course no receipt.  These things cost a couple of quid, are full of plastic and extra components, cost about 3 quid each if you buy in bulk, and don't last more than a year.  What a waste
<duflu> Morning willcooke, marcustomlinson and Laney
<marcustomlinson> hi duflu
<duflu> willcooke, yeah I found some LED globes die quick but on average they last longer than the alternatives
<willcooke> yeah, I suppose one going isnt really a fair sample
<seb128> hey willcooke marcustomlinson Laney, how is u.k today?
<duflu> Which reminds me, I replaced a headlight on the car last weekend and found LED options for those. Might be interesting to try one day
<marcustomlinson> seb128: still european
<seb128> that's good :)
<duflu> woo?
<marcustomlinson> so good yeah
<marcustomlinson> XD
<Laney> morening duflu marcustomlinson willcooke seb128
<willcooke> duflu,  I seem to remember there being something about replacing headlights with LEDs causing odd electrical problems.  That might have been indicators though - where the bulb itself was part of the timing flasher timing circuit
<Laney> i'll be negative
<Laney> it's GREY and BLOODY COLD
<Laney> STILL
<willcooke> Sun is shining here :)
<Laney> blow it up this way pls
 * willcooke opens the window and puffs 
<Laney> also
<marcustomlinson> ah you blew it too far, now we have it in Edinburgh
<marcustomlinson> :)
 * willcooke sucks
<Laney> our Currys PC World thing in town takes light bulbs for recycling
<Laney> and most other electronic stuff
<Laney> worth knowing
<willcooke> ooh, I bet the tip do as well.  I've got a load of glass to take, I will try that
<Laney> annoying bit is when you replace it and the new one is a slightly different colour temperature
<willcooke> yes!
<Laney> https://programmes.files.bbci.co.uk/programmes-frontend/images/error/500-3dc2a62f76.gif
<Laney> BBC's error 500 page has that image :D
<willcooke> \o/
<marcustomlinson> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openoffice.org/+bug/230196/comments/10
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 230196 in openoffice.org (Ubuntu) "[upstream] OpenOffice quickstarted shouldn't have a notification icon" [Wishlist,Won't fix]
<marcustomlinson> how do we deal with that? ^
<Laney> marcustomlinson: file a new question on https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad with a link
<marcustomlinson> holy sh**
<marcustomlinson> it's coming in fast
<willcooke> lots of different bugs getting spammed?
<marcustomlinson> yeah
<marcustomlinson> https://bugs.launchpad.net/~klfbfdlkfnf/+commentedbugs
<marcustomlinson> https://answers.launchpad.net/~klfbfdlkfnf
<willcooke> ah, so same user?
<marcustomlinson> yeah
<willcooke> Lets see if the snap store team can help
<Laney> ?!?!
<Laney> #launchpad if anything
<Laney> they're pretty experienced with spam fighting
<willcooke> talking in #launchpad-ops on the Canonical IRC server
<marcustomlinson> ah ok
<willcooke> and fwiw, the snap store team and the launchpad team are the same people
<Laney> subset isn't it?
<Laney> I was trying to give advice that didn't require an employment contract with Canonical
<Laney> thanks though
<Laney> (and the first route I gave doesn't interrupt anyone; that's why I always go there in the first instance)
<marcustomlinson> Well people on #launchpad know it's being looked at too
<willcooke> thx
<willcooke> good advice, thanks Laney
<marcustomlinson> yes thanks Laney and willcooke :)
<oSoMoN> yeah, usually filing a question on launchpad is acted upon quickly, in my experience
<Laney> ye
<marcustomlinson> right, there already were multiple questions regarding that spammer. I saw it coming in fast so thought perhaps there was a quicker way to get people aware
<duflu> Bon weekend all
<duflu> and mothers in particular
<oSoMoN> tkamppeter, hey! are you looking at that n-m autopkgtest failure on bionic?
<oSoMoN> tkamppeter, I suspect simply adding the allow-stderr restriction to the nm test would do the trick. the failure is triggered by the PyGIWarning being printed on stderr, not by it being an actual error
<tkamppeter> oSoMoN, I am not much experienced with autopkg tests as it rarelyhappened to me that they failed on a package. Where needs the allow-stderr be applied?
<tkamppeter> oSoMoN, and for which Ubuntu releases?
<Laney> Wouldn't it be better to fix the actual stderr output it's printing?
<Laney> That's just a gi.require_version() that's already in later releases
<oSoMoN> Laney, yeah, that's probably a better fix
<oSoMoN> I just ran that test in a bionic VM and it actually passes, so it's just the import warning being printed on stderr
<Laney> nod
 * Laney stabs 'git rebase -i' destroying merge commits
<Laney> BUT! TIL that you can use 'git rebase -i' to generate *new* merge commits
<Laney> like if you accidentally end up fixing a side issue, you can generate a branch for that using rebase -i
<Laney> what a world we live in
<oSoMoN> tkamppeter, http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/9Hpsw3Fbhp/ should do the trick
<Laney> â¥
<tkamppeter> OK, thanks.
<Laney> . O O ( wonder why pygobject started printing that message just now )
<tkamppeter> It is probably only needed for Bionic. Is there a Bionic SRU bug report (with SRU in -proposed) where one can add this to the SRU and re-upload?
<tkamppeter> Laney, can it be that there was also some update on Python or pygobject which caused this?
<Laney> tkamppeter: Not pygobject, but I'm not about to spend any time investigating what else it is - the fix is clearly right anyway. :-)
<Laney> It could be that something else was importing those things and stopped doing it, so now the test is being blamed directly
<Laney> and I'd say you can probably get away without an explicit SRU bug for this change if you explain it in the changelog
<tkamppeter> Laney, OK. I also would not search for another place to fix. Let us simply apply this fix to get the SRUs on NM and MM through.
<Laney> Trevinho: done, merci!
<seb128> tkamppeter, Laney, while we should fix it I wonder if that would make sense to ask the SRU team to unblock the current one by skipping the test to avoid having to do another round of verification on the new build and delay even more the SRU
<oSoMoN> note that this is not blocking only n-m, the kernel 4.15.0.49.51 SRU is also blocked by this
<Laney> I think having a functional test is valuable. If it's red then you will probably not notice if it gets even more red.
<Laney> If you want to argue with someone then I'd suggest making the argument based on the only changes between the previous upload and this one being a test fix.
<tkamppeter> seb128, that would really be a good idea. How to do it? In one of the two SRU bugs (nm, mm)? In both? By e-mail? IRC channel (which one)?
<seb128> tkamppeter, you can ask the SRU team for their opinion
<Laney> fine
<seb128> maybe they are happy accepting a new upload which only change that
<seb128> without requesting a new testing period reset to 0 and full testing
<seb128> but then we might got bitten by any compiler/whatever issue than would create a problem in a new rebuild
<seb128> but that's probably not likely
<tkamppeter> But where to ask? IRC? e-mail? one of the bugs?
<seb128> you can try ask the SRU reviewer of the day
<tkamppeter> seb128, who is that? Where do I find who that is?
<seb128> according to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#Publishing it's tjaalton and vorlon today
<seb128> tkamppeter, are you new around? ;)
<Laney> It's not going to be released today anyway.
<tkamppeter> seb128, what do you mean with that?
<Laney> Try to get the fix accepted today, and argue for a reduced (over the weekend) validation period.
<seb128> Laney, do a proper round of testing on that update with the split vpn etc is non trivial work
<Laney> seb128: Did you read what I said previously?
<seb128> so depends if we are wanting to do that/if they are fine skipping full testing
<seb128> Laney, yes, did you read what I wrote? ;)
<Laney> OK, well I'm not sure why you'd talk about full validation when I was saying that you should try to get that waived.
<seb128> tkamppeter, nothing, I though you had been around for long enough that you would know who is on the SRU team and where is the wiki :)
<tkamppeter> seb128, perhaps I did not run in such a situation before.
<seb128> Laney, you mentioned the period, not what was being tested. Anyway I think we both are in agreement so not point making it sound like we are arguing
<seb128> "we should ask the SRU team if they are fine doing a light handling of an upload with that change"
<seb128> I think we both agree on that?
<Laney> Right, OK then.
<seb128> :-)
<Laney> I want you to agree with me on the value of having tests be green too pelase
<Laney> please
<Laney> you probably do, but I want to be sure :>
<seb128> yes I do
<Laney> OK, then we can push the SRU team on this point of view
<seb128> I would prefer for that SRU to go in without too much extra delay AND fix the test
<seb128> yep
<seb128> though it makes me a bit nervous to SRU a key component without a full testing round, but the chance we got bitten by toolchain/build issues is low
<Laney> I mean there's SRUs going through all the time
<Laney> if the toolchain is producing broken stuff then ...
<seb128> yeah, probably just me being too paranoid
<seb128> tkamppeter, get an upload with the test fix in the queue and ask the SRU team/ping tjaalton and vorlon on #ubuntu-release asking if that can be added to the current one without resetting the testing done
<tkamppeter> I am already asking them on ubuntu-devel.
<tkamppeter> seb128, I do not have upload rights for nm. The maximum I could do there is preparing a debdiff.
<Laney> I'll sponsor it, no worries
<tkamppeter> tjaal_ton tells on ubuntu-devel that it is OK. We can simply fix the test and re-upload.
<tkamppeter> no re-testing needed.
<Laney> what good guys
<Laney> for sponsoring, a git branch would be a bit easier than a debdiff
<tkamppeter> Laney, the debdiff: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/q5MSdT3nW9/
<Laney> cheers
<tkamppeter> Laney, sorry, did not see your last lines, was probably already off for starting to prepare the debdiff.
<Laney> don't worry about it, I'll make it look like you committed it anyway ;-)
<tkamppeter> OK, thanks for sponsoring. Hope the SRU queue get cleaned soon then.
<Laney> we can ping Timo once it's uploaded
<tkamppeter> OK.
 * Laney is running the tests
<Laney> fail
<Laney> https://git.launchpad.net/network-manager/commit/?id=69675f0aa771475754428700976e960d91031df5 this is needed
<Laney> Thanks Past Laney
<willcooke> ha
<tkamppeter> Laney, your upload of nm for Bionic is "waiting for approval" (got mail  notification), did you already inform Timo?
<Laney> see #ubuntu-devel
<tkamppeter> Laney, also thanks for adding the other fix (probably this issue was masked by the failure).
<Laney> tkamppeter: no worries. It might not exist on the autopkgtest runners if they happen to have those things installed, but my autopkgtest-buildvm-ubuntu-cloud instance did not
<seb128> tseliot, hey, iirc you confirmed https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-settings/+bug/1822937 ... is that still something you are looking at? should it be assigned to you? (and maybe rls targetted?)
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1822937 in nvidia-settings (Ubuntu) "NVIDIA settings won't write to /etc/xorg" [Low,Confirmed]
<tseliot> seb128: I am not convinced it's an nvidia specific problem though. I wonder if it was caused by a change in polkit
<tseliot> but yes, it's still on my list
<seb128> tseliot, I don't think polkit changed (much), but if you have a testcase/small code example doing something similar to what nvidia-settings is doing let me know we can have a look
<seb128> tseliot, I assign it to you for now then
<tseliot> seb128: ok
<seb128> thx
<seb128> willcooke, Laney, k, as I though andyrock had let an update-notifier branch fixing the "shouldn't show indicator if livepatch is not in use", we were just behind on review ... just uploaded to eoan I will get that in the bionic SRU next
<Laney> cool
<Laney> it doesn't implement that full checkbox thing from the spec still though right?
<seb128> it does, uploaded as well
<seb128> well "full", I didn't read the spec
<seb128> but he added a checkbox to software-properties to show/hide the indicator
<seb128> and fixed the indicator to not show when livepatch is not in use
<Laney> ok, I just looked at the diff to see if there was anything about a checkbox in there, maybe it's in a previous version
<Laney> oh no I found it
<seb128> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/423127873/software-properties_0.98.0_0.98.1.diff.gz
<seb128> ah, k
<Laney> looks good then, assuming it works right ;-)
<seb128> the gsettings was already there
<seb128> it works for me, but I give it another round of testing on bionic before upload
<seb128> I tested on disco with hacked lsb-release info/faking livepatch being enabled :)
<seb128> k, on that note moving location again, bbiab
<Laney> argh
<Laney> people without bouncers
<didrocks> :p
<didrocks> "great people", you meant Laney, right right right? :)
 * Laney looks nervous
<Laney> ...yeeeeeeeesss...
<didrocks> good answer!
<seb128> (and back)
<Laney> wb
<Laney> seb128: wanted to link you to the spec before you went away: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareUpdates#livepatch - probably useful for your testing
<didrocks> this is interesting to see that the mount syscall and the mount command aren't the same at all in term of magic :)
<didrocks> well interesting/surprising/giving more work :p
<didrocks> but on thatâ¦ seeing in Lyon for some of you! have a great week-end
<Laney> ORLY
<Laney> isn't /bin/mount a fancy transformer into mount() calls?
<didrocks> Laney: don't stop at ORLY but at Saint ExpÃ©ry airport
<didrocks> (yes, I know you are taking the train :p)
<Laney> heh
<didrocks> Laney: yes and no
<didrocks> it has some enhancement like the "auto" special name
<didrocks> to detect the device type
<didrocks> also, the mount() syscall can only mount block devices
<didrocks> where mount can bindmount directories and regular files
<didrocks> and so, it creates a loop devices before calling mount syscall
<Laney> https://lwn.net/Articles/759499/
<Laney> intriguing stuff
<didrocks> (which is where I'm coming from :p but toook some time to figure this out)
<didrocks> yeah ;)
<didrocks> went on this as well
<didrocks> didn't have my answer on block device though :p
<didrocks> fsmount would have been great, but not mapped by Golang
<Laney> did it go in?
<didrocks> I don't know, I just grepped on the golang stdlib :p
<Laney> heh
<didrocks> but yeah, maybe the kernel didn't implement it, I just went on the next grep in libmount.c ;)
<Laney> well not being in the kernel would block that for sure :>
<Laney> now you go away
<Laney> see you sunday!
<didrocks> see you on sunday Laney!
<willcooke> Trevinho, do you happen to know if making the dock pips reflect windows that are on the same workspace as the dock is anywhere on the plans for upstream dock?
<willcooke> what I mean is:
<willcooke> I have the dock set so that each monitor is independent. So on monitor one I have my pinned icons, let's say terminal, browser and irc.
<willcooke> Then I have the same icons on Monitor 2
<willcooke> If I have IRC on monitor 1, and I click on the icon on monitor 2 - then instead of taking me to IRC on monitor one, it launches another IRC.
<willcooke> That's my doing, because I wanted to try and get it working like Unity 7
<willcooke> :)
<willcooke> but it would be a good feature for it not to do that IMO
<seb128> Laney, thx for the spec url!
<Laney> np
<oSoMoN> have a good week-end everyone!
<Trevinho> willcooke: hey... No I don't think there's such plan
<Trevinho> willcooke: but we can indeed do it
<Trevinho> indeed there are various things to be tuned there to get the u7 behavior though... MOstly in multi monitor as you say
<Trevinho> it something I'd like to find time for, but since we never defined what and when I
 * Trevinho kf
<Trevinho> err
<Trevinho> if not generically, then I didn't move much forward
<willcooke> Trevinho,thx
<willcooke> Good night all, have a good weekend.  Safe travels to those going to Lyon o/
<Laney> night also o/
<seb128> interesting
<seb128> I've been poking at gnome-calendar for a week, upstreaming some bugs, nagging George about getting reviews and talking about backports/a new tarball on #gnome-calendar
<seb128> and while I test the update Laney comes and beat me to it :p
<seb128> well I guess I drop that and call it a week then!
<seb128> have a nice w.e desktopers
<marcustomlinson> seb128: you too!
<marcustomlinson> seb128: safe travels
<marcustomlinson> as short as it may be ;)
#ubuntu-desktop 2020-05-04
<callmepk> Good morning
<duflu> Morning callmepk 
<callmepk> morning duflu, how are you
<duflu> I'm OK, for a Monday. You, callmepk?
<callmepk> I am good
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<oSoMoN> happy Monday!
<duflu> Hi oSoMoN. Actually just a Monday Monday. How are you?
<oSoMoN> hey duflu. I'm good, how are you yourself?
<duflu> Going OK
<seb128> goood morning desktopers
<duflu> Hi seb128 
<duflu> Quiet today. At least in IRC
<duflu> How are you seb128?
<Laney> hi ho de ho
<duflu> Hi Laney
<seb128> hey duflu, Laney, how are you?
<duflu> seb128, very Monday-ish. You?
<seb128> duflu, I'm good, sorry was away for morning 'duties' :)
<seb128> I'm ok, w.e was relaxing and I feel recharged
<duflu> That's OK. I was away picking the bins up out of the mud. In a clean white shirt. You'll never guess what happens next
<seb128> haha
<oSoMoN> :)
<oSoMoN> salut seb128 
<oSoMoN> hey Laney 
<seb128> lut oSoMoN, comment Ã§a va ?
<oSoMoN> Ã§a va, bon week-end Ã  peu prÃ¨s reposant, et toi?
<seb128> pareil :)
<seb128> duflu, are you getting some success with those nvidia issues? if you are able to reproduce did you try if e.g the second screen rotation bug happens without the xrandr scaling patch?
<duflu> seb128, that's a job for this week, maybe not today. I aim to just catch up on email, status report and upstreams today
<seb128> k
<duflu> But I do aim to simplify things by trying to reproduce and verify behaviour on Intel before going back to Nvidia
<duflu> Not least to better understand what working fractional scaling should look like
<duflu> And it works on Intel
<duflu> But I don't know about the multimonitor stuff yet. Will test that
<duflu> If there's a bug I can fix without having nvidia in the mix I might do that first
<duflu> to avoid more side-effects on Nvidia
<Laney> moin duflu seb128 oSoMoN 
<ricotz> good morning desktopers :)
<Laney> hey ricotz 
<seb128> duflu, also feel free to bounce to Marco if you have a test case which let trigger the issue, the problem is that he lacks nvidia only hardware atm (as not optimus)
<seb128> hey ricotz, how are you?
<oSoMoN> good morning ricotz 
<ricotz> hey Laney seb128 oSoMoN 
<ricotz> I am doing good :)
<seb128> Trevinho, hey, can you investigage bug #1876352 ? it has been bisected to one of your recent commits to ubuntudock
<ubot5> bug 1876352 in gnome-shell-extension-ubuntu-dock (Ubuntu) "App Grid icons out of alignment when opening from overview" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1876352
<sil2100> Hey desktoppers! Not sure if canary is still a thing, but groovy images are failing due to the ubuntu-canary PPA not having any groovy packages:
<sil2100> E: The repository 'http://ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntu-desktop/canary-image/ubuntu groovy Release' does not have a Release file.
<oerheks> groovy just started, what makes you think a PPA is ready?
<oerheks> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/ubuntu/canary-image
<oerheks> and for support, join #ubuntu+1  but i doubt there will be help 
<Laney> sil2100 is one of the cd build maintainers, he's notifying us of a failing build
<Laney> let me take care of it
<oerheks> oh oke
<seb128> tseliot, bug #1765363 has active comments, unsure if that's a real issue we should care about or a low piority one? I would welcome you looking just from a traiging perspective
<ubot5> bug 1765363 in nvidia-prime (Ubuntu) "prime-select intel is not powering off the nvidia card" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1765363
<tseliot> seb128, I remember fixing that in Eoan. I need to check if I backported the fix to bionic
<seb128> tseliot, recent comments state they have the issue on focal but maybe that's another problem and they should be askred to report another bug
<tseliot> seb128, are you talking about LP: #1875339 now?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1875339 in ubuntu-drivers-common (Ubuntu Focal) "xorg does not use nvidia gpu on a I+N machine." [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1875339
<seb128> tseliot, no, why?
<seb128> tseliot, e.g https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-prime/+bug/1765363/comments/69
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1765363 in nvidia-prime (Ubuntu) "prime-select intel is not powering off the nvidia card" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<tseliot> let me have a look
<seb128> or #68
<tseliot> seb128, that seems to me like a comment on the solution provided in the bug report, more than on the way things are in 20.04.
<tseliot> also, they are using bbswitch, which isn't really needed
<seb128> tseliot, could well be ... if you think you fixed it in 19.10 then I think we best close that one and ask people have issues on focal to do a new clean report describing their problem
<tseliot> seb128, I'll check how things are in 18.04 too
<seb128> tseliot, thanks!
<duflu> seb128, some good news: plymouth master's latest two commits came from us
<seb128> duflu, you got your contributor badge for another project :)
 * duflu wonders if those were the first
<duflu> No I was already a contributor
<duflu> If only the important changes would land
<seb128> ah, right, you had a list the label/center bugfix you did before focal went out
<seb128> yeah :/
<duflu> tjaalton, I keep seeing bug reports in which people have the nvidia kernel driver and Xorg using modeset. Is that even possible?
<duflu> I will have to try
<duflu> Sounds like stutter is generally what results, which I find easy to believe if swap events don't work properly
<tjaalton> for tseliot?
<duflu> Maybe
<duflu> You're so all over Xorg that I keep forgetting
<tjaalton> modeset works on a kms driver, so it's not "forbidden"
<tjaalton> combo
<duflu> Yeah that's what I fear
<duflu> Maybe I will need to make it a supported (less broken) combo in mutter
<tjaalton> just that there should be an xorg.conf in these cases?
 * duflu nods
<tjaalton> it could be a hybrid too with i915
<tjaalton> hmm or maybe not
<tseliot> duflu, yes, modesetting is the default driver for intel+nvidia. This means intel using the modesetting driver
<duflu> Yes. I guess I get confused by the lack of Nvidia in the Xorg log
<duflu> Makes me think it's not loaded
<tseliot> duflu, nvidia should also show up in the log if "prime-select nvidia" is used. It won't when in "on-demand" mode
<popey> jibel uploaded my journal to bug 1876440. Very odd that the bpool went missing. Happy to run debugging commands or whatever :)
<ubot5> bug 1876440 in zsys (Ubuntu) "Kernel no longer getting updated" [Critical,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1876440
<jibel> popey, there is no bpool and in the pool cache there is the default pool of lxd. 
<jibel> i'll see if I find something useful in the journal and probably as k for more info
<popey> oof
<KGB-0> gobject-introspection ubuntu/focal ebeca15 Iain Lane debian/ control control.in gbp.conf * control, gbp.conf: Update for focal * https://deb.li/iW852
<KGB-0> gobject-introspection ubuntu/focal 1735e69 Iain Lane debian/changelog * Update changelog * https://deb.li/pJXC
<KGB-0> gobject-introspection ubuntu/focal b6281a8 Iain Lane debian/changelog * Finalise changelog * https://deb.li/3QMLG
<KGB-0> gobject-introspection ubuntu/focal d96e828 Iain Lane debian/gbp.conf * gbp.conf: Update 'debian-tag' to make ubuntu/XXX tags * https://deb.li/1VWc
<KGB-0> gobject-introspection signed tags 78ca4ea Iain Lane ubuntu/1.64.1-1_ubuntu20.04.1 * gobject-introspection Debian release 1.64.1-1~ubuntu20.04.1 * https://deb.li/3Bx8y
<Trevinho> seb128: ok will look that too 
<seb128> hey Trevinho, thanks! how are you? had a good 3 days w.e? :)
<Trevinho> seb128: good although I actually worked on 1st as there was not much else to do... ð
<Trevinho> To celebrate work even better 
<Trevinho> you. 
<Trevinho> ? 
<Trevinho> but at least I was able to go out for a walk and a run after 40+ days locked in 
<didrocks> good afternoon :)
 * Laney looks suspiciously at didrocks 
<Laney> afternoon
<Laney> hey Trevinho 
<didrocks> :) /me goes force and back and work in interruptions
<seb128> Trevinho, I worked as well, virtual vienna ... w.e was relaxing/good though
<seb128> hey didrocks, how are you?
<didrocks> seb128: tired, but not as much as Julie :) Otherwise, well! Thanks, and you?
<KGB-2> orca ubuntu/master c2b4d62 Iain Lane * pushed 7 commits (first 5 follow) * https://deb.li/34IOy
<KGB-2> orca ubuntu/master f85abc2 Sebastien Bacher debian/ (5 files in 2 dirs) * Import Debian changes 3.35.3-1ubuntu1 * https://deb.li/ij0G4
<KGB-2> orca ubuntu/master e955b83 Sebastien Bacher (151 files in 14 dirs) * Import Debian changes 3.36.1-0ubuntu1 * https://deb.li/ivyD
<KGB-2> orca ubuntu/master d413699 Iain Lane debian/ (7 files in 2 dirs) * Merge tag 'debian/3.36.1-1' into ubuntu/master * https://deb.li/3QwDz
<KGB-2> orca ubuntu/master c90d623 Iain Lane (25 files in 7 dirs) * Merge tag 'debian/3.36.2-1' into ubuntu/master * https://deb.li/qu4R
<KGB-2> orca ubuntu/master 1eb85b5 Iain Lane debian/ control control.in gbp.conf * control, gbp.conf: Update for ubuntu branches * https://deb.li/3VHzv
<KGB-2> orca signed tags fcbffaa Iain Lane ubuntu/3.36.2-1ubuntu1 * orca Debian release 3.36.2-1ubuntu1 * https://deb.li/DHME
<didrocks> thanks Laney :)
<Laney> np!
<Laney> got to love having the commit bot
<didrocks> it seems it's printing Author and not Commiter, right?
<Laney> that's right
<Laney> If it printed the committer it would mean attribution is weird
<didrocks> DRTR :p
<didrocks> DTRT
<didrocks> :)
<Laney> :>
 * Laney does the sru bits
<Laney> back online
<Laney> ISP's been having a wobble
<Laney> just wobbled off completely /o\
<didrocks> waow, crazy, even the wifi at the maternity is more stable than your ISP it seems
<Laney> heh
<Laney> they're usually great, wonder what's happening today
<Laney> watching their IRC channel is funny
<seb128> marcustomlinson, bug #1874591 seems like a fallout from https://code.launchpad.net/~marcustomlinson/update-manager/update-manager/+merge/380060
<ubot5> bug 1874591 in apturl (Ubuntu) "AptUrl GTK window stuck on screen after install completed" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1874591
<seb128> +            GLib.idle_add(self.label_details.set_label, status)
<seb128> but label_details doesn't seem to exist
<seb128> well not in the apturl context at least
<marcustomlinson> sigh
<marcustomlinson> seb128: thanks for the diagnosis
<seb128> marcustomlinson, np, sorry that this work is still coming back haunting you :-(
<KGB-1> orca ubuntu/master a8635db Iain Lane * pushed 11 commits (first 5 follow) * https://deb.li/iWRAx
<KGB-1> orca ubuntu/master 7d66148 Samuel Thibault (125 files in 13 dirs) * New upstream version 3.35.91 * https://deb.li/pl0E
<KGB-1> orca ubuntu/master 0cd1ee2 Samuel Thibault (125 files in 13 dirs) * Update upstream source from tag 'upstream/3.35.91' * https://deb.li/3QmCe
<KGB-1> orca ubuntu/master c3394f9 Samuel Thibault debian/changelog * upload * https://deb.li/1L2I
<KGB-1> orca ubuntu/master 0d2eb6a Samuel Thibault (60 files in 7 dirs) * New upstream version 3.35.92 * https://deb.li/sQI4
<KGB-1> orca ubuntu/master 7fd9f07 Samuel Thibault (60 files in 7 dirs) * Update upstream source from tag 'upstream/3.35.92' * https://deb.li/3nziD
<KGB-1> orca ubuntu/focal e743a23 Iain Lane * pushed 10 commits (first 5 follow) * https://deb.li/3VoGA
<KGB-1> orca ubuntu/focal f85abc2 Sebastien Bacher debian/ (5 files in 2 dirs) * Import Debian changes 3.35.3-1ubuntu1 * https://deb.li/ij0G4
<KGB-1> orca ubuntu/focal e955b83 Sebastien Bacher (151 files in 14 dirs) * Import Debian changes 3.36.1-0ubuntu1 * https://deb.li/ivyD
<KGB-1> orca ubuntu/focal d413699 Iain Lane debian/ (7 files in 2 dirs) * Merge tag 'debian/3.36.1-1' into ubuntu/master * https://deb.li/3QwDz
<KGB-1> orca ubuntu/focal c90d623 Iain Lane (25 files in 7 dirs) * Merge tag 'debian/3.36.2-1' into ubuntu/master * https://deb.li/qu4R
<KGB-1> orca ubuntu/focal 1eb85b5 Iain Lane debian/ control control.in gbp.conf * control, gbp.conf: Update for ubuntu branches * https://deb.li/3VHzv
<KGB-1> orca signed tags f76e3ec Iain Lane ubuntu/3.36.2-1ubuntu1_20.04.1 * orca Debian release 3.36.2-1ubuntu1~20.04.1 * https://deb.li/DNiR
<Laney> I like this method of dishing out of updates
<hellsworth> good morning dekstopers
<oSoMoN> hey hellsworth 
<hellsworth> hi there oSoMoN 
<didrocks> hey hellsworth, oSoMoN 
<hellsworth> hey didrocks why are you here??
<didrocks> hellsworth: I work (with some interruptions) from the maternity. This allow me to be more available when we go back home (on Wednesday)
<didrocks> allows*
<hellsworth> wow good job.. and congrats again :D
<didrocks> thx :)
 * ogra sighs ... two weeks in and i still havent gotten a working desktop on my upgraded desktop ... *sniff* ... 
 * ogra would be happy about any idea https://imgur.com/a/z8jDqUB ... (i have an install on USB sick that works flawless on that device, the upgraded internal install looks like this though)
<seb128> ogra, what driver is in use? legacy intel? or the modesetting modern one?
<seb128> ogra, maybe directly ping tjaalton or RAOF they are probably the ones around having the most clue about graphical corruption/driver bugs
<ogra> well, both are intel for sure
<seb128> ogra, is -intel installed?
<seb128> just trying to see a difference between an USB stick and your upgrade...
<ogra> : (II) intel(0): Using Kernel Mode Setting driver: i915, version 1.6.0 20190822
<ogra> i think they are identical 
<ogra> well, trying to find the difference is what i'm doing here since a week :) 
<ogra> i think i at least have a largely identical package selection on both now ... 
<sarnold> ogra: two weeks with those crazy artifacts?
<ogra> i also tried a new user to make sure it isnt any user config ... so the last bit remaining must be some stale config ... perhaps something i added manually and forgot :/
<ogra> sarnold, well,  a few restarts and i at least have no artifxats on the fonts ... then changing the wallpaper and i have a semi workable environment 
<sarnold> ogra: ah, good. that'd otherwise be way too much to work with
<ogra> playing a video fullscreen reliably breaks it again though 
<tjaalton> ogra: do you have the intel x driver in use?
<tjaalton> if so, remove it
<ogra> tjaalton, xserver-xorg-video-intel ?
<tjaalton> yes
<tjaalton> in xorg.conf
<ogra> i dont have an xorg.conf (i think)
<tjaalton> check
<ogra> at least not in /etc/X11
<tjaalton> or the x log
<sarnold> is there something wrong with just purging the package and letting that sort it out?
<ogra> no trace of xorg.conf in the log ... let me remove the driver and reboot ... 
<tjaalton> that should do it, unless x is configured to use it and it fails to start
<tjaalton> i meant if the log showed intel was used
<ogra> tjaalton, i owe you beer at the next non-virtual sprint !!!
<ogra> thanks so much, that did it
<tjaalton> ok, cool :)
<tjaalton> guess you still have a config in /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d
<seb128> ogra, shrug, I asked you early if you used the old -intel
<seb128> glad you figured it out though: )
<KGB-0> gnome-control-center ubuntu/master df687cd Gunnar Hjalmarsson debian/ changelog patches/0030-temporarily-revert-alt-char-key.patch * Fixed broken dh_translations POT creation * https://deb.li/it6P1
<KGB-1> gnome-control-center ubuntu/focal 2a22179 Gunnar Hjalmarsson debian/ changelog patches/0030-temporarily-revert-alt-char-key.patch * Fixed broken dh_translations POT creation * https://deb.li/3bYNe
#ubuntu-desktop 2020-05-05
<KGB-2> mutter ubuntu/master c1afb90 Marco Trevisan * pushed 145 commits (first 5 follow) * https://deb.li/rMAg
<KGB-2> mutter ubuntu/master adbe09a Olivier Fourdan src/compositor/meta-window-actor-x11.c * window-actor/x11: Cache the frame bounds * https://deb.li/3IZhl
<KGB-2> mutter ubuntu/master dbecb93 Laurent Bigonville src/compositor/compositor.c * compositor: Only include meta-window-actor-wayland.h when building with wayland * https://deb.li/XOix
<KGB-2> mutter ubuntu/master 2cc8061 Olivier Fourdan src/core/keybindings.c * keybindings: Mask out the reserved modifiers mask * https://deb.li/ikJcE
<KGB-2> mutter ubuntu/master b80b465 Jonas DreÃler clutter/clutter/cogl/clutter-stage-cogl.c * clutter/stage-cogl: Fix painting the redraw clip with the damage region * https://deb.li/tOjn
<KGB-2> mutter ubuntu/master 858c12e Jonas Ãdahl clutter/clutter/ clutter-paint-context-private.h clutter-paint-context.c clutter-stage.c * clutter/paint-context: Add paint flag * https://deb.li/3rJ87
<callmepk> good morning
<duflu> Hi callmepk 
<jibel> good morning 
<duflu> Hi jibel 
<callmepk> Hi duflu and jibel 
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> Morning didrocks 
<didrocks> hey duflu 
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<duflu> Hi oSoMoN 
<oSoMoN> hey duflu 
<didrocks> hey oSoMoN, duflu 
<didrocks> not enough sleep, already told hey to duflu :)
<duflu> didrocks, same so I did not notice :D
<didrocks> heh
<Laney> hey hey!
<GunnarHj> Good morning all!
<GunnarHj> I pushed a tiny g-c-c commit to both groovy and focal branches but without uploading, assuming that more will come also on focal. Suppose that's a reasonable assumption.
<duflu> Hi Laney and GunnarHj 
<GunnarHj> Hello duflu
<seb128> hey Laney, GunnarHj, duflu
<seb128> lut didrocks, oSoMoN
<seb128> how is everyone?
<seb128> GunnarHj, yes, good assumption, and there is already a SRU uploaded so best to wait for that one to clear up
<seb128> we have quite some fixing to do on g-c-c so I expect several SRUs before .1
<didrocks> salut seb128, hey Laney, GunnarHj 
<didrocks> Ã§a va :) et toi ?
<seb128> Ã§a va bien :)
<seb128> didrocks, pas trop fatiguÃ©? 
<GunnarHj> didrocks: HÃ¤r Ã¤r det fina fisken.
<Laney> hey duflu seb128 didrocks GunnarHj 
<didrocks> seb128: non, câest pas trop moi qui est le plus Ã  plaindre pour lâinstant :)
<seb128> :-)
<Laney> sunny day
<Laney> planted sweet peas out this morning
<Laney> is good
<Laney> unless they get eaten by a slug
<seb128> nice
<seb128> I should try to do things in the morning but atm I struggle to get out of bed and then it's work time
<Laney> yeah bed is a tempting place a lot of the time /o\
<RAOF> You just need a small child to climb in at 4am. That makes the bed less appealing!
<GunnarHj> sil2100: I think I saw a notification about a reply from you, but I don't see it in HexChat.
<oSoMoN> good morning Laney, GunnarHj, seb128, didrocks 
<ricotz> good morning desktopers
<Laney> hey oSoMoN 
<seb128> Laney, so yeah, disabling fractional scaling with 125% selected (single screen, intel, on the xps) immediatly change the resolution, but it's weird, it 'underscale' for me
<Laney> yep
<seb128> UI is smaller than if I select 100%
<Laney> it's buggy after you do that too
<seb128> ?!
<Laney> I would guess that is two bugs to file
<duflu> If you file any then please add a screenshot so I can quickly tell if one is a duplicate
<duflu> We have lots of bugs
<seb128> Laney, yes, the 'unscale too low' is a shell side issue, I get the same if I reset the gsettings key with g-c-c closed
<duflu> seb128, do you mean shrunken?
<seb128> so it's not g-c-c just going to apply a random mode because it gets confused by the list changing
<seb128> duflu, yes, scaling is lower than 100%
<seb128> resolution is 3072x1728 according to xrandr
<duflu> seb128, yeah I see that sometimes. The root window size is left bigger than the monitor resolution. Sometimes it occurs in panning mode though, so the desktop appears cropped
<seb128> where the panel/normal screen is 1920x1080
<duflu> Yep
<seb128> do we have a bug tracking that already?
<duflu> seb128, kind of... the same bug but in cropped mode, not scaled
<seb128> do you have the bug number?
<duflu> seb128, bug 1875285
<ubot5> bug 1875285 in mutter (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu 20.04 Fractional scaling crops half the screen" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1875285
<Laney> let's rls tag a few things to look at later
<seb128> poor marco :p
<seb128> but yeah
<Laney> that bug looks a bit different
<Laney> robert can take the g-c-c bits I guess
<duflu> seb128, in theory you can adjust that to anything:  xrandr --fb WIDTHxHEIGHT
<seb128> right
<duflu> seb128, yes that bug happens on Intel too so is a good one for Marco
<seb128> jamesh, Laney, robert_ancell, weekly status reminder
<Laney> I did it?!?!!?
<seb128> Trevinho, as well
<seb128> Laney, https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/desktop-team-updates-monday-4th-may-2020/15890 ?
<Laney> weird
<Laney> hopefully discourse saved it
<duflu> It usually does
<seb128> usually it does
<duflu> Does usually it
<seb128> it does usually
<duflu> two more
<seb128> :)
<Laney> yes there it was
<Laney> Prelude Data.List> map (concat . intersperse " ") . permutations $ words "yes there it was"
<Laney> ["yes there it was","there yes it was","it there yes was","there it yes was","it yes there was","yes it there was","was it there yes","it was there yes","it there was yes","was there it yes","there was it yes","there it was yes","was yes there it","yes was there it","yes there was it","was there yes it","there was yes it","there yes was it","was yes it there","yes was it there","yes it was 
<Laney> there","was it yes there","it was yes there","it yes ...
<Laney> ... was there"]
<Laney> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/CVT9Hw9Rtv/
<Laney> productised
<seb128> :p
<seb128> Laney, s/plymouth/accountsservice :)
<Laney> yeah
<seb128> Laney, that's powerful script magic the permutation thing :p
<Laney> haskell man
<Laney> it's the way
<seb128> :)
<Laney> I'll file the instant apply bug if nobody else did
<seb128> Laney, please do, thx
<Laney> if someone else do the small size one, and maybe duflu can nominate one/some for 'nvidia is borked' issues
<duflu> Laney, I've been triaging them for hours, days
<duflu> But there's no bug for the shrinkage issue yet
<duflu> Perhaps I'll just swap out my video cards again and make dinner
<Laney> that's OK, we can file it
<Laney> but I think we should also have a bug rls-ff-incoming tagged for things like 'you get a blank screen when selecting scaling sometimes'
<seb128> Laney, we rls-ff-notfixed https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mutter/+bug/1873403 at the time but I think we have enough confirmation now than we should revisit
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1873403 in mutter (Ubuntu) "[nvidia] Screen turns off when trying to set some fractional scaling values" [High,In progress]
<Laney> think so
<Laney> so maybe put that one back to incoming
<duflu> It's the second hottest one... https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=xrandr-scaling&orderby=-heat&start=0
<Laney> I wonder if I saw that 200% one too
<Laney> it did feel big to me
<sil2100> GunnarHj: did you get my last messages?
<duflu> Laney what you see at that time is actually the cropping bug 1875285
<ubot5> bug 1875285 in mutter (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu 20.04 Fractional scaling crops half the screen" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1875285
<Laney> ah, could be
<Laney> sounds worth tagging too
<Laney> Filing the shrinky one also
<Laney> then I'll get back to other things
<duflu> The shrinking/cropping issue happens on Intel too, sometimes. And I suspect may be part of the cause of the other issues. So would be great for Marco to look at
 * duflu returns to Intel graphics and feels relieved 
<Laney> yeah seb128 said he saw it on non-nvidia
<Laney> done bug #1876894
<ubot5> bug 1876894 in mutter (Ubuntu) "Scaling is not reverted properly when disabling fractional scaling" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1876894
<GunnarHj> sil2
<GunnarHj> sil2100: Yes, and replied.
<Trevinho> mh, that shrinking I think just happens as the driver doesn't really scale down
<seb128> Trevinho, hey! it's weird though, that happens if you turn off fractional scaling in gsettings, not if you see scaling to 100% in settings
<seb128> Trevinho, weekly status update? ;)
<Trevinho> seb128: yeah sorry I already wrote a draft then I wanted to finish the gjs update
<seb128> Trevinho, no worry, what is block the gnome-shell update? (at least to groovy), Debian got those uploaded last week, is there anything blocking us?
<Trevinho> seb128: I wanted to handle few fixes on the xrandr patch too and while testing I had an issue with the 2-in-1 I've here, so... this lead to some more fixes.
<seb128> Trevinho, I would recommend to not do too much, there are some important fixes in .2 users are waiting for, best to do what is ready and another round a week later
<seb128> Trevinho, you are doing your typical 'be side tracked by fixing one little bit more before claiming being done'
<seb128> Trevinho, often you end up being still fixing one more issue a week later when you do that :)
<Trevinho> sure sure, but some are easy enough while redoing uploads might take some extra time
<Trevinho> well the one I fixed was easy enough until i didn't start testing that lead to 1.5k new lines xD 
<Trevinho> but that's done at least, but since I wasn't sure it was a regression it took some more time initially
<seb128> lol
<seb128> don't rewrite gnome-shell in a SRU patch!
<Trevinho> no, no... not adding either to the SRU for now
<Trevinho> waiting for upstream ack first
<seb128> do you think there any chance your fixes address some of the nvidia scaling problems?
<Trevinho> for that
<Trevinho> while for the xrandr could be, but a bit hard to figure
<Trevinho> without actual testing :/
<seb128> oh oh oh
<seb128> it's meeting time!
<kenvandine> indeed!
<seb128> #startmeeting Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2020-05-05
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue May  5 13:30:43 2020 UTC.  The chair is seb128. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/mxaCZTVc | GNOME 3.36 work claiming / tracking: https://trello.com/b/z29JJK3q/gnome-336 | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2020-05-05 | Current topic:
<seb128> Roll call:  didrocks, duflu (out), heather, jamesh (out), jibel, kenvandine, laney, marcustomlinson (out), oSoMoN, tkamppeter, trevinho, robert_ancell (out), callmepk
<Trevinho> o/
<kenvandine> o/
<callmepk> o/
<oSoMoN> o/
<marcustomlinson> \o
<hellsworth> o/
<Laney> |O|
<seb128> wooot, let's get started
<seb128> #topic rls-bb-bug
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/mxaCZTVc | GNOME 3.36 work claiming / tracking: https://trello.com/b/z29JJK3q/gnome-336 | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2020-05-05 | Current topic: rls-bb-bug
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> no desktop entry
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> everything assigned, wooot
<seb128> I'm going to skip -ee from now on, I don't think it makes sense to accept new things for that serie at this point
<kenvandine> makes sense
<seb128> we can still on special cases but probably doesn't need to be in the meeting
<seb128> #topic rls-ff-bug
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/mxaCZTVc | GNOME 3.36 work claiming / tracking: https://trello.com/b/z29JJK3q/gnome-336 | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2020-05-05 | Current topic: rls-ff-bug
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ff-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> there are some 'noise' item (incomplete/already discussed&assigned), I will skip those
<seb128> bug #1876891
<ubot5> bug 1876891 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "The fractional scaling toggle applies instantly and not when "Apply" is pressed" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1876891
<seb128> I think it's an issue we should fix but I wouldn't consider it as rls target
<seb128> it's a pretty specific case to pick a scaled value and then turn scaling off while it's selected
<seb128> and the impact is limited, scaling is wrong but you still have a display so it's easy enough to change the value in the UI
<Laney> is it?
<Laney> pick scaling, decide you don't want it, later want it again
<seb128> let's say we didn't get any report so far
<Laney> at that point you get the old value before you picked whatever you want at the new point
<seb128> I'm not discussing it's a bug, agreed it's not a nice behaviour
<seb128> it just didn't get reported/mentioned by other users yet and is easy to recover from
<seb128> anyway, that's my reasoning for giving a -1
<hellsworth> it seems like it should be fixed but maybe not super urgent
<seb128> I'm happy to be overulled
<Laney> here's what I think
<Laney> it's crap behaviour
<Trevinho> the problem is that we can't know the actual scaling value before activating it
<kenvandine> i'd say we want it fixed for .1
<Laney> and it's crap bugs that *we* introduced in a distro patch
<Laney> we should have a high bar for quality there
<Trevinho> so not really possible to do this... The only option is not to scale by default probably
<Laney> so I think we should be holding ourselves to a high standard here and accepting things like this
<seb128> Trevinho, well, from the settings the control could be smart enough to change the value to an int one before doing the gsettings toggling
<hellsworth> Laney makes a good argument.. i'm switching sides
<seb128> still, we don't have data showing that users noticed/that it's a thing people do
<Trevinho> seb128: mh, *could* but it goes through the DBusAPI so need to be consequent, so may still cause some visual lag
<seb128> anyway
<seb128> vote?
<seb128> -1 from me
<kenvandine> +1 from me
<Trevinho> by default it would pick an integer value though
<Trevinho> only if the user changed it previously it's a fractional, and imho this is fine
<hellsworth> +1
<Trevinho> -1
<Laney> +1
<oSoMoN> +1
<seb128> k, nominating
<seb128> kenvandine, do you think Robert can take on it since he added the UI?
<seb128> and it's g-c-c
<kenvandine> he's got other time sensitive stuff
<kenvandine> but it might be a quick fix
<seb128> unsure what would be a nice behaviour there
<Trevinho> not sure, unless we want 3 clicks to get it active
<Laney> I don't get why you have to fiddle with the value mutter knows about, it's just not connecting directly to the gsetting
<seb128> maybe simply disabling the off switch if a scaled value is selected?
<Trevinho> like -> toggle -> apply -> set scaling -> done
<Laney> it's completely fine to remember the previous setting, just don't apply it until they press apply
<Laney> so you can have a chance to change it
<Trevinho> no way unless we implement changing monitor.xml from g-c-c
<Trevinho> which isn't something we want
<seb128> maybe should just disable the toggle if a scaled value is selected?
<Trevinho> only option is to add other dbus APIs which I decided not to do not to move away from upstream 
<Laney> discuss after
<seb128> right
<oSoMoN> yeah
<Laney> hopefully without the 'no way' kind of things
<seb128> bug #1876894
<ubot5> bug 1876894 in mutter (Ubuntu) "Scaling is not reverted properly (appears shrunk) when disabling fractional scaling" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1876894
<seb128> I vote +1 to this one
<Trevinho> +1
<hellsworth> +1
<Trevinho> ah, wait... MIGHT be WONTFIX for some things unfortnuately... as it depends on their toolkits
<Trevinho> like it's for qt (telegram) and sometimes firefox
<seb128> hum?
<Trevinho> same is already when you switch from 100% to 200%
<seb128> for me it's 
<seb128>  start session
<Laney> it works if you first pick 100% and then press apply
<seb128> -enable scaling, 125%
<seb128> disable the key
<seb128> and g-c-c is underscale
<seb128> resolution is 3200 in xrandr
<seb128> instead of 1900
<seb128> pick 100% and it's fine
<Trevinho> ah ok, that's fine then. g-c-c issue thouhg.
<Trevinho> not mutter, I can look at that.
<seb128> not g-c-c
<seb128> anyway, let's talk about this after the meeting
<Trevinho> k
<RoyK> I have an old laptop that hasn't been update for a while and I wanted to update it now, finding it's running 19.04 and nothing seems to want to update. Do I have to change repos?
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ff-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> bug #1866088
<ubot5> bug 1866088 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu Focal) "Problems with the Dock setting of "Show on" in the Appearance tab" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1866088
<oSoMoN> RoyK, we're in the middle of a team meeting here, hold on for a few minutes if you don't mind
<seb128> that's fix commited
<seb128> assigning to Marco, it's pending review in the focal queue
<RoyK> oSoMoN: np
<seb128> bug #1876334	
<ubot5> bug 1876334 in zsys (Ubuntu Focal) "[Focal] zsys does not clear out old snapshots, potentially filling up bpool" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1876334
<seb128> jibel, you nominated that one, should be assigned to you or Didier?
<seb128> assuming they will :p
<seb128> #topic rls-gg-bug
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/mxaCZTVc | GNOME 3.36 work claiming / tracking: https://trello.com/b/z29JJK3q/gnome-336 | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2020-05-05 | Current topic: rls-gg-bug
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-gg-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> no new bug on that list, either discussed or things to clean out as I said earlier
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-gg-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> fix commited ones
<seb128> #topic update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/mxaCZTVc | GNOME 3.36 work claiming / tracking: https://trello.com/b/z29JJK3q/gnome-336 | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2020-05-05 | Current topic: update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
<seb128> Laney, want to do that one or should I? (I review the list earlier so I can do if you are not on top of it atm)
<seb128> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
<Laney> I didn't look, feel free
<seb128> k
<seb128> fonts-teluguvijayam: needs a MIR
<seb128> I will do that, standard/easy font one
<seb128> some libreoffice issues, hopefully only usual armhf retries, some are queued let's see next week if it's still an issue
<seb128> libutempter needs investigating, I was going to poke at it
<seb128> gdk-pixbuf is failing but the tests are new / just been added in Debian
<seb128> the failures don't happen in Debian thoguh
<seb128> anyone interested to poke at that?
<seb128> libsoxr is a bit puzzling, it failed in focal and now again, failing to find pkg-config on i386, but it has one successful try on groovy which I don't explain
<seb128> it looks like it's not set up for crossbuild, dunno how it worked that one time :/
<oSoMoN> gdk-pixbuf: can do once I'm done with the firefox release and other things
<seb128> oSoMoN, thanks
<seb128> I will trello cards thing for reminder
<seb128> libsoxr would be nice to make cross build friendly if anyone want to poke, but meanwhile I mp a hint to reset the result on i386 I think
<seb128> it's not a regression
<seb128> a
<seb128> and that's it for proposed migration
<seb128> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/mxaCZTVc | GNOME 3.36 work claiming / tracking: https://trello.com/b/z29JJK3q/gnome-336 | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2020-05-05 | Current topic: AOB
<seb128> any other topic?
<Laney> some items were mentioned on one of the incoming lists which we keep skipping
<Laney> anything we can do to get those off?
<seb128> yes, I will get them off for next week, I had delayed assuming the .2 upload would clear off the list for us
<seb128> but that is taking time, we should probably just accept nomination for things pending upload to get them off the list
<Laney> cool thanks!
<seb128> np!
<Laney> yeah I usually nominate and assign when uploading SRUs
<Laney> for all the bugs fixed in that
<seb128> right
<seb128> thanks for pointing it out :)
<seb128> anything else?
<Laney> not from me
<seb128> (sorry, got some ping/side discussion going which created a bit of delay on the meeting)
<seb128> thanks everyone!
<seb128> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/mxaCZTVc | GNOME 3.36 work claiming / tracking: https://trello.com/b/z29JJK3q/gnome-336
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue May  5 14:07:10 2020 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2020/ubuntu-desktop.2020-05-05-13.30.moin.txt
<hellsworth> thanks
<oSoMoN> thanks
<oSoMoN> that's unfortunate, I was going to answer to RoyK's questionâ¦
<Laney> seb128: I don't see your merge proposal to the hints, link?
<Laney> Trevinho: soooooo are you saying that the UI is constructed from values that mutter gives you, and that these are different depending on whether that feature is enabled?
<Trevinho> Laney: yep
<Laney> sad
<Trevinho> also might be enabled then you change hw or screen and it changes...
<Laney> it's like keyed by some identifier?
<seb128> Laney, sorry, I've it in a tab, going to submit in a minute
<Trevinho> Laney: what you mean? These values are provided once you tell mutter you support fractional values... So, in such cases it gives you a list of valid resolutions/scales and based on this we build the UI. so it would be impossible for g-c-c to guess them
<Laney> right
<Trevinho> also because you could change resolution and set other scaling
<Trevinho> one option, that I suggested at the sprint, was to just keep this key on all the times, and then we have another UI option to show or not non-scaling
<Trevinho> that would fix also the other issue
<Trevinho> but i think it may be too late for this
<Laney> if you have the key on, and pick an integer value, is it shortcutting out all of the fractional code?
<Trevinho> yep
<Laney> that might be one way to do it then
<Trevinho> not all, but basically it's behaving the same
<Laney> if no performance impact *cough duflu*
<Trevinho> nope because in such case would just use scaling of 1 of the X11 side and X in the widget side of things
<parclytaxel> Hello?
<Laney> it sounds like to fix it in the other way you'd need a new mode peeking api
<Laney> which does indeed sound like more divergence than we want ideally
<parclytaxel> I've been pointed here by an Inkscape developer
<parclytaxel> Inkscape 1.0's been released, and that other developer said I should ask you when you are going to package Inkscape for Ubuntu
<parclytaxel> Are you planning to do it in the next few days? I'm not seeing 1.0 in the native repository, although it's available as a snap
<kenvandine> parclytaxel: it is already
<kenvandine>   latest/stable:    1.0-5b275a35d9-2020-05-03     2020-05-04 (7601) 148MB -
<kenvandine> the snap
<seb128> parclytaxel, install the snap
<kenvandine> published by inkscape
<parclytaxel> I already have the snap. But it isn't really "native", like Firefox
<seb128> you mean?
<kenvandine> native?  
<seb128> the deb is udpated in the new Ubuntu serie, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/inkscape/1.0~rc1-4
<parclytaxel> The snap doesn't use Ubuntu fonts for the dialogs and such
<kenvandine> snap is the preferred way
<seb128> unsure if we will SRU to focal, I expect it's too much change for a SRU
<parclytaxel> SRU?
<seb128> stable release update
<seb128> e.g for focal
<seb128> stable updates usually include fixes, not big changes
<parclytaxel> The 0.92.5 version that is in the standard repos does use Ubuntu fonts
<seb128> that's why snaps are great, you can get newer apps if you wish :)
<seb128> that sounds like a bug in the snap to fix
<kenvandine> parclytaxel: that's a bug then... 
<parclytaxel> but the other Inkscape dev said "we don't control the Ubuntu repos"
<kenvandine> right, they don't
<seb128> Laney, Trevinho, if you guys come to a conclusion, can you comment on the bug? I'm unsure that's a bug for Robert to fix or what we technically do with it at this point
<kenvandine> parclytaxel: but they do the snap
<kenvandine> parclytaxel: the snap is published by the inkscape team 
<kenvandine> parclytaxel: can you please file a bug at https://gitlab.com/inkscape/inkscape/-/issues
<Trevinho> seb128: ideally would be -> migrate users with that key enabled to another key, and keep that on all the times.
<kenvandine> parclytaxel: and if you give me the link i can probably fix it myself
<parclytaxel> alright, I'm going to file a bug
<seb128> Trevinho, I doubt you will see Robert do that work
<Trevinho> Laney: you think to something like that as well?
<kenvandine> parclytaxel: thanks!
<seb128> jibel, I've assigned you the zsys bug since you targetted it, feel free to reassign to Didier or delete the target if those are better resolution
<Trevinho> I'm ok to take it, probably worth to decide if we want migrate all or just who enabled already
<seb128> Trevinho, please don't get distracted from the .2 updates, the dock fixes and the nvidia scaling (if you can help duflu)
<seb128> then you can have a look to that if you wish
<Trevinho> yeah, I have already enough meat so not a super prio for me :)
<Trevinho> so if someone takes it I'm fine
<seb128> well it's rls accepted now...
<seb128> but yeah, let's do in priority order
<Laney> Trevinho: why another key? can stop g-c-c ever removing that from the list, and set the mode at the ui level instead no?
<Laney> like disable becomes queue a change to 100%
<Laney> and filter the values, and enable becomes unfilter the values
<Trevinho> Laney: how do you know whether is active at startup?
<Laney> first startup?
<Trevinho> Laney: ok, I see what you mean
<Trevinho> so in order to make apply work yes can be an option
<Laney> ah, was writing some pseudocode but ok :p
<Trevinho> so, should be fine... we just queue a revert back to the suggested integer when disabling the toggle
<Laney> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/PXVTjQj592/
<Laney> also, agreed it could come after the other rls bugs
<Trevinho> Laney: I would have just one case though, when you enable and it was enabled already set to something non-100 it would set it immediately, no?
<Trevinho> ah, ok well if we reset no. that's ok
<Laney> :>
<kenvandine> parclytaxel: i just tested and i'm definitely getting the ubuntu font in the inkscape dialogs
<parclytaxel> kenvandine: I'm still typing out my bug report. While yes, there are instances of the Ubuntu font in most places, the bottom status bar does not use it
<parclytaxel> I will show you the link when I have submitted it
<kenvandine> ok
<kenvandine> please include a screenshot
<kenvandine> my both status bar looks right
<parclytaxel> kenvandine: here you go https://gitlab.com/inkscape/inbox/-/issues/2659
<parclytaxel> you got it kenvandine?
<kenvandine> parclytaxel: just a minute
<seb128> Laney, https://code.launchpad.net/~seb128/britney/libsoxr-reset-version/+merge/383423 , sorry took me a bit to get back to it
<Laney> thx!
<parclytaxel> this actually looks like a decent IRC channel
<seb128> parclytaxel, :)
<Laney> don't have the energy to merge as
 * Laney cherry picks
<parclytaxel> (decent in relation to #ubuntu - that channel is flooded with one-timers)
<parclytaxel> lemme reboot my system because I've done quite some package installing and uninstalling
#ubuntu-desktop 2020-05-06
<callmepk> Good morning
<duflu> Morning callmepk 
<duflu> Delayed reaction
<jibel> hi all
<duflu> Hi jibel 
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<duflu> Morning oSoMoN 
<oSoMoN> hey duflu 
<jibel> salut oSoMoN 
<oSoMoN> salut jibel
<oSoMoN> ricotz, good morning! mind pushing your changes to the firefox-beta branches again? IÂ have a working update for unity-menubar.patch
<oSoMoN> (well at least working with 77.0~b1, hoping that beta 2 doesn't break it againâ¦)
<seb128> goood morning desktopers
<oSoMoN> salut seb128 
<seb128> lut oSoMoN, comment Ã§a va ?
<oSoMoN> seb128, bien, et toi?
<seb128> Ã§a va bien!
<seb128> :)
<duflu> Hi seb128 
<seb128> hey duflu, how are you?
<duflu> seb128, going OK. Taking a break from fractional scaling while Marco is busy and returned to release bugs. You?
<seb128> I'm good, doing my morning bug triage round :)
<seb128> RAOF, thanks for the SRU reviews! any chance you could do gnome-control-center as well? it fixes some annoying issues and we have probably other SRU rounds coming from it so would be nice to have the first upload moving out of the queue :)
<RAOF> seb128: Sure! I'm always happy to take SRU pings!
<seb128> RAOF, thanks! :)
<marcustomlinson> morning desktoppers
<oSoMoN> good morning marcustomlinson 
<duflu> Hey marcustomlinson 
<ricotz> oSoMoN, hi, beta 2 won't break it, so it should be fine
<ricotz> good morning all
<ricotz> oSoMoN, pushed
<oSoMoN> ricotz, thanks
<seb128> hey marcustomlinson, ricotz, Laney, how are you?
<ricotz> oSoMoN, please don't upload further builds to the ppa
<marcustomlinson> hey oSoMoN, duflu, and seb128. I'm well thanks, you guys?
<seb128> marcustomlinson, I'm good!
<ricotz> seb128, hey, quite well
<Laney> sneaky seb128 
<marcustomlinson> and hey ricotz
<marcustomlinson> and hey Laney
<Laney> yo ho ho
<ricotz> hey marcustomlinson Laney 
<marcustomlinson> and a bottle of rum
<seb128> Laney, :)
<Laney> hey ricotz 
<Laney> sunny day today!
<duflu> Hi Laney and ricotz 
<seb128> oh, Trevinho has a new picture on discourse, nice one :)
<seb128> Trevinho, how did you end up maintaining a stable branch of gnome-todo? ;)
<seb128> (just reading your weekly summary)
<Laney> Georges complained about the distros all backporting EDS API fixes
<Laney> so Trevinho grabbed those into a branch
<Laney> gnome-todo master has moved to GTK4 or something and the maintainers sort of stopped doing releases for the current stuff
<Laney> don't think it's signing up for maintenance tho
<Laney> hey duflu!
<ricotz> duflu, hey
<seb128> Laney, ah, thanks for the context
<oSoMoN> ricotz, ack, I'll just push my updated patch when I get a chance, I'll let you handle uploads
<oSoMoN> yo ho ho Laney 
<Laney> hey oSoMoN 
<ricotz> oSoMoN, ack, that should be beta 3 on Friday
<seb128> hum, did anything change that made pkg-config be part of the default builders before and not anymore?
<seb128> I've a groovy upload that failed by lack of pkg-config, indeed it's not in the Build-Depends but the same package builded fine in focal and Debian
<xnox> seb128: maybe transitive -dev package had a depends on that, and has since dropped it?
<seb128> xnox, could be, I was just wondering if that part of some essential/base set and was meant to be there by default or not
<xnox> Never was.
<xnox> I always had to build-depend on it.
<Trevinho> seb128: hey, wasn't that pic there before? :o 
<Trevinho> seb128: as per todo, don't want to maintain personally, but at least now all the distros have a point of reference to contribute to, until there's not a next stable
<Trevinho> and instead of complaining for distros shipping an old one, we have some upstream reference
<oSoMoN> seb128, should I care about the librsvg i386 build failure in groovy? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/librsvg/2.48.4-1
<jbicha> oSoMoN: Debian will need librsvg to build on i386
<oSoMoN> jbicha, ack, and that's https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=959847
<ubot5> Debian bug 959847 in src:librsvg "librsvg: FTBFS on i386: aspect_ratio::tests::invalid_viewbox: gigantic viewBox does not raise Err as expected" [Serious,Open]
<seb128> oSoMoN, we need to care yes, nice to see that Simon upstreamed it with some guessing, let's see what they say
<oSoMoN> seb128, yeah, IÂ should have done some research before pinging you, hopefully upstream fixes this for us
<seb128> no worry :)
<seb128> marcustomlinson, I'm just curious but is the launchpad janitor not working on those bugs you are manually closing?
<seb128> marcustomlinson, could you give me an example of bug you would close before doing so please?
<seb128> marcustomlinson, ubuntu bugs set as incomplete for 60 days without having a new activity should autoclose without you having to go cleanup manually
<GunnarHj> seb128, marcustomlinson: I have a feeling that several of those translation related ubuquity bugs, even if not so important, are just as valid as when they were submitted.
<seb128> GunnarHj, if they are valid and someone still care the bugs can be reopened, it's just a status change
<marcustomlinson> yes that ^
<seb128> also if someone still care/notice they will be reported again
<seb128> ideally we would deal with bug better than check ourselve, but lack of manpower :/
<seb128> marcustomlinson, still the janitor should do the work for you today, I wonder if you didn't wait enough or if it's buggy, do you have bugs you didn't close yet to check those?
<GunnarHj> I realize the reason for cleaning the bug tracker. Just think it's a bit sad.
<marcustomlinson> seb128: the janitor ignores bugs that are targeted to a milestone for example
<marcustomlinson> and if it was assigned
<seb128> marcustomlinson, ah, that's the kind of thing I was unsure about/wanted to check, thx :)
<seb128> GunnarHj, right, agreed :/
<marcustomlinson> think of it this way everyone hates me not you :P
<GunnarHj> ;)
<Laney> seb128's avatar on trello looks like a potato to me
<Laney> when it's small like on the list of cards
<marcustomlinson> a potato with a top hat on
 * Laney remembers to check pulseaudio's FDs thanks to a calendar reminder from last week
<Laney> \o\
<Laney> ah crap
<Laney> it got restarted when fractional killed my xorg
 * Laney moves the reminder to +7 days
<popey> jibel do you by any chance have the magic commands needed to un-break my system? is it enough to just rm /boot/* and reboot?
<jibel> popey, no, that would also delete the content of the EFI partition.
<hellsworth> good morning desktopers
<marcustomlinson> hey hellsworth
<hellsworth> hi marcustomlinson 
<seb128> hum, we might have a gap in our rls incomin listing
<seb128> it probably doesn't work for snaps, e.g snap-store
<jibel> good morning hellsworth 
<seb128> hey Heather, how are you?
<hellsworth> hi there jibel 
<hellsworth> hey seb128 
<hellsworth> i'm ok. you?
<seb128> I'm great :)
<hellsworth> wow that's wonderful to hear :)
<seb128> Trevinho, hey, what's the status of the .2 updates and SRU?
<seb128> Laney, do you know if there is the gnome-keyring diff we have could go to Debian now?
<seb128>     - debian/user/*, debian/gnome-keyring.links, debian/gnome-keyring.install:
<seb128>       + Install units to start gnome-keyring with systemd if the session
<seb128>         is using it
<seb128> ideally that would be an upstream feature now
<seb128> but until we do that...
<seb128> I'm unsure if we get any functional value from this delta atm so I would be up for either removing it or commiting to Debian but I might be overlooking something
<Laney> drop the initctl bit, but otherwise I don't see why not
<Laney> there is some functional value, it makes the environment variables available more widely
<seb128> thx
<Laney> it should probably also patch the .desktop file to add X-GNOME-HiddenUnderSystemd=true too
<seb128> ah, rigt, I forgot about that
<seb128> I will submit a mp and ask you for review, thx for the hints
<seb128> but that's probably not for today at this point, just adding to my backlog, maybe tomorrow :)
<Laney> no rush if you want me to review, going to be off until next week anyway
<Laney> speaking of
<Laney> see you monday!
<seb128> Laney, bye, have a nice long w.e ;-)
<kenvandine> hellsworth: my gnome-characters build is failing to upload to the store
<hellsworth> uh oh
<hellsworth> problem with the store perhaps?
<oSoMoN> hey hellsworth! is https://git.launchpad.net/~libreoffice/+git/libreoffice-snap/commit/?id=fd382597649220089da0df7c6702916233716d98 all that's needed to add a common ID to a snap?
<hellsworth> lp link?
<hellsworth> oSoMoN: i believe so
<hellsworth> i got the common id from the appdata.xml files (one for each app)
<oSoMoN> hellsworth, cool, thanks
<hellsworth> np
<oSoMoN> I'll update my snaps
<hellsworth> kenvandine: i just kicked off a lp build of cherrytree.. we'll see if that uploads ok
<hellsworth> what's the error you get?
<jdstrand> seb128: hey, fyi for awareness, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/usbguard/+bug/1816548/comments/20
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1816548 in usbguard (Ubuntu) "[MIR] usbguard" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<kenvandine> Store upload failed:
<kenvandine> Expecting value: line 1 column 1 (char 0)
<hellsworth> hmm :/
<kenvandine> i have another build running too
<hellsworth> cherrytree is queued on lp with needs building status...
<hellsworth> pipelines might be a bit clogged
<kenvandine> hellsworth: the gnome-characters snap went from 15M to 275K :)
<kenvandine> thanks to gnome-3-34 
<hellsworth> ooooooh that's super nice!
<hellsworth> :)
<kenvandine> libmozjs is pretty fat
<hellsworth> guess so
<hellsworth> well that with the extra libffi
<hellsworth> ok im going to pop out for some take out.. brb
<ricotz> is anything happening in regard to fix the gcc-10 package in groovy-proposed?
<hellsworth> kenvandine: cherrytree built on LP but won't upload to the store
<kenvandine> hellsworth: i saw that
<kenvandine> there seems to be an SSO problem
<kenvandine> debugging atm
<hellsworth> mkay thanks for letting me know
<seb128> jdstrand, hey, ah, thanks, I saw the commit/got the notification from github, could to know that you are +1 then, maybe we give it a go in 20.10 :-)
<seb128> ricotz, we are the wrong person to ask about gcc, I guess you tried to ping doko? what's the issue exactly? is there a report? if so probably worth tagging rls-gg-incoming so the foundation team can review it tomorrow in their weekly meeting
<ricotz> seb128, yes, I have pinged him. It causes several build failures due to uninstallable packages
<seb128> ricotz, best to open a bug and tag it I guess :/
<ricotz> :\
<seb128> ricotz, do you have an example of build log of failure? I can try to raise it to foundations...
<ricotz> seb128, https://launchpadlibrarian.net/478197989/buildlog_ubuntu-groovy-amd64.ubuntu-drivers-common_1%3A0.8.2_BUILDING.txt.gz
<ricotz> not a good example
<seb128> thx
<ricotz> seb128, this one is not so obvious though https://launchpadlibrarian.net/478493426/buildlog_ubuntu-groovy-amd64.firefox-trunk_78.0~a1~hg20200505r528217-0ubuntu0.20.10.1~umd1_BUILDING.txt.gz
<ricotz> anyway https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gcc-10/10-20200502-1ubuntu1 - the "Stop building libgccN" changes are insufficient
<RikMills> ricotz: I just mentioned that in #ubuntu-devel
<RikMills> had not seen this ^
<ricotz> RikMills, I see, I mentioned it some days ago in #ubuntu-devel too
<RikMills> :(
<ricotz> also #ubuntu-release
<RikMills> a kubuntu tester reported this LP: #1877175
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1877175 in gcc-10 (Ubuntu) "lib32stdc++6 is not installable with 10-20200502-1ubuntu1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1877175
<RikMills> ricotz: ^ if you are currently doing a bug
<ricotz> RikMills, thx
#ubuntu-desktop 2020-05-07
<KGB-0> mutter signed tags a659be5 Marco Trevisan ubuntu/3.36.2-1ubuntu1 * mutter Debian release 3.36.2-1ubuntu1 * https://deb.li/2F6i
<KGB-0> mutter ubuntu/master 58d0e36 Marco Trevisan (TreviÃ±o) debian/patches/ debian/tests-Tag-closed-transient-no-input-tests-as-flaky.patch x11-Add-support-for-fractional-scaling-using-Randr.patch * xrandr-scaling: Fix compiler warnings * https://deb.li/3hBfh
<KGB-0> mutter ubuntu/master 6d2de99 Marco Trevisan (TreviÃ±o) debian/patches/x11-Add-support-for-fractional-scaling-using-Randr.patch * xrandr-scaling: Take care of global UI scale when restoring from config * https://deb.li/8bt2
<KGB-0> mutter ubuntu/master be7aad6 Marco Trevisan (TreviÃ±o) debian/changelog * Update changelog * https://deb.li/3oXBC
<KGB-0> mutter ubuntu/master 2aecaac Marco Trevisan (TreviÃ±o) debian/changelog * Finalise changelog * https://deb.li/SnwU
<KGB-0> mutter signed tags 9964a75 Marco Trevisan ubuntu/3.36.2-1ubuntu1_20.04.1 * mutter Debian release 3.36.2-1ubuntu1~20.04.1 * https://deb.li/37FvA
<KGB-0> mutter ubuntu/focal e1a2f2e Marco Trevisan * pushed 117 commits (first 5 follow) * https://deb.li/m2Re
<KGB-0> mutter ubuntu/focal fdc32d5 Marco Trevisan (TreviÃ±o) debian/patches/x11-Add-support-for-fractional-scaling-using-Randr.patch * xrandr-scaling: Support shell direct-rendering inhibitions * https://deb.li/3acn0
<KGB-0> mutter ubuntu/focal 6192d72 Marco Trevisan (TreviÃ±o) debian/patches/x11-Add-support-for-fractional-scaling-using-Randr.patch * xrandr-scaling: Don't change widget scaling when temporary disabling it * https://deb.li/rbDz
<KGB-0> mutter ubuntu/focal d73d25e Marco Trevisan (TreviÃ±o) debian/changelog * Update changelog * https://deb.li/3fXss
<KGB-0> mutter ubuntu/focal 2044a36 Marco Trevisan (TreviÃ±o) debian/changelog * Finalise changelog * https://deb.li/53XC
<KGB-0> mutter ubuntu/focal 6661980 Marco Trevisan (TreviÃ±o) debian/patches/ series monitor-config-manager-Fallback-to-closed-laptop-lid-conf.patch * d/p: Fallback to closed laptop lid configuration if no other available * https://deb.li/x4q2
<callmepk> good morning
<KGB-0> gnome-shell signed tags b537462 Marco Trevisan ubuntu/3.36.2-1ubuntu1 * gnome-shell Debian release 3.36.2-1ubuntu1 * https://deb.li/an3G
<KGB-0> gnome-shell ubuntu/master d2a9363 Marco Trevisan * pushed 78 commits (first 5 follow) * https://deb.li/3MFJM
<KGB-0> gnome-shell ubuntu/master 38e31b9 Carlos Garnacho src/st/st-widget.c * st: Ensure to reset all widget theme nodes * https://deb.li/IFT1
<KGB-0> gnome-shell ubuntu/master 1a5a016 Will Thompson js/misc/systemActions.js * systemActions: include ASCII alternatives in search index * https://deb.li/3eBPN
<KGB-0> gnome-shell ubuntu/master 006d0e8 Jakub Steiner data/theme/gnome-shell-sass/widgets/_calendar.scss * theme: tone down weekend with events * https://deb.li/3kbOV
<KGB-0> gnome-shell ubuntu/master 443d615 Florian MÃ¼llner src/st/st-entry.c * st/entry: Allow hint actor to shrink * https://deb.li/iWXGg
<KGB-0> gnome-shell ubuntu/master e57a4e0 Jonas DreÃler src/st/ st-theme-context.c st-theme-node-private.h st-theme-node.c * st/theme-context: Also remove theme nodes on stylesheet changes * https://deb.li/pByl
<duflu> Morning callmepk 
<callmepk> Morning duflu 
<jibel> hi all
<duflu> Hi jibel 
<seb128> goood morning dektopers
<duflu> Hi seb128. How goes?
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<duflu> Hi oSoMoN 
<oSoMoN> hey duflu 
<seb128> hey duflu, oSoMoN, how are you?
<seb128> duflu, I'm good thanks :)
<duflu> seb128, going OK. I feel we are over the main hump of focal bug reports and can get back to normal life, so that's good
<seb128> great
<oSoMoN> seb128, I'm very good and well rested, thanks
<duflu> oSoMoN, I'm getting excited... bug 1811219
<ubot5> bug 1811219 in chromium-browser (Ubuntu) "High precision touchpad scrolling doesn't work in Wayland sessions (but does in Xorg)" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1811219
<oSoMoN> duflu, very nice!
<oSoMoN> and good job tracking this upstream
<seb128> RAOF, hey, about bug #1873658 ... does it really need a new upload or can it be moved back out of the rejected queue?
<ubot5> bug 1873658 in desktop-file-utils (Ubuntu Focal) "Deb Files are not associated with an application that manages packages" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1873658
<RAOF> Pretty sure that can be fished out of the rejected queue.
<RAOF> Although a new upload is also cheap.
<seb128> RAOF, sorry I overlooked your reply for some reason, would a new upload make it easier? the bug got updated and upload to G is on its way
<RAOF> seb128: sorry, I'm past EOD. A new upload would get it on the regular queue, otherwise you'll need to ping someone (which could be me, but I'd get to it tomorrow)
<seb128> RAOF, no hurry, it can wait, have a nice evening!
<seb128> I was more curious about the process
<RAOF> seb128: In general, another upload is cheap (you should be able to use the same .changes file), and gets it back onto the regular queue. But poking someone is also acceptable.
<seb128> RAOF, k, I'm not used to reject for valid uploads where bug is lacking details, but I guess it's a way to keep the queue status clean for you :)
<RAOF> I'm not consistent in doing that, but it does sometimes get wearying to process the same bug over and over ð
<RAOF> Not that it happened here, though.
<RAOF> From memory my reasoning was âthat sounds like something that might break flavours, and no one has responded to the request for additional details for some days, soâ¦â
<RAOF> Uploads are cheap ð
<ogra> oSoMoN, "msg='apparmor="DENIED" operation="dbus_method_call"  bus="system" path="/" interface="org.freedesktop.DBus.Peer" member="Ping" mask="send" name="org.freedesktop.Avahi" pid=431942 label="snap.chromium.chromium"" is that a new thing ? (noticed it some time in the beginning of this week, looks like chromium wants avahi access)
<oSoMoN> ogra, IÂ hadn't noticed, that sounds like possibly a new thing indeed
<ogra> looks like it is re-occuring at a fixed 5min cadence over here 
<oSoMoN> ogra, I'm making a note to take a look later, that doesn't sound too worrying but it would be good to understand why it's doing this anyway
<ogra> yeah, only spamming the logs ... i havent noticed any issues or anything
<oSoMoN> interestingly, my journal only have similar denials for the libreoffice snap, not for chromium
<oSoMoN> s/have/has/
<oSoMoN> (and I have chromium running all day long)
<ogra> funny
<ogra> i wonder if we see a snapd/snap-confinement bug 
<seb128> Trevinho, hey, thanks for the .2 updates :)
<Trevinho> :)
<Trevinho> I wanted to fix few things first but shoould be quite good overall
<seb128> Trevinho, :-)
<seb128> Trevinho, btw I confirmed bug #1877108 , I guess its a simple inverted logic bug in your previous fixes
<ubot5> bug 1877108 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu Dock appears on the display opposite to that indicated on Appearance tab" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1877108
<seb128> Trevinho, when selecting 'launcher on display 1' it ends up on display 2
<seb128> and reverse, selecting 2 makes it be on 1
<Trevinho> seb128: oh!
<Trevinho> seb128: once I'm done with a Xorg bug (the one for 2 pointers) I want to look at g-c-c issues
<seb128> Trevinho, k, no hurry, we aren't going to fail the current SRU on that so it's not for before next week anyway for a new upload
<Trevinho> k
<ogra> kenvandine, while i dont have anything particular for our 1:1 today ... how about the plan to widen the meeting a bit and include other people ... 
<seb128> kenvandine, ogra, I would be happy to join another time bug not today, in middle of other things
<ogra> seb128, well, i dont think it is clear yet who should attend and when we'll hold it ... i dont think thu 15:00 UTC  is set in stone
<kenvandine> ogra: that's planned for next week
<ogra> ah, k 
<kenvandine> 12 people starting next week :)
<kenvandine> see you then
<ogra> hah, good !
<luna_> Any Ubuntu translators meeting today in 7 minutes?
<luna_> Gonna watch the webinar today joining in 28 minutes
<luna_> Joined todays Ubuntu 20.04 and 20.10 Closed/Public Alpha webinar now
<Trevinho> seb128: I've linked a wrong bug in mutter changelog, maybe it's better to fix that for focal not to have the SRU stuff to happen in a wrong one no?
<Trevinho> so maybe you could reject so I push a fixed one
<KGB-1> gnome-shell signed tags e7c5bb5 Marco Trevisan ubuntu/3.36.2-1ubuntu1_20.04.1 * gnome-shell Debian release 3.36.2-1ubuntu1~20.04.1 * https://deb.li/3WVFR
<KGB-1> gnome-shell ubuntu/focal 14fc531 Marco Trevisan * pushed 376 commits (first 5 follow) * https://deb.li/ecUD
<KGB-1> gnome-shell ubuntu/focal 1576d35 Marco Trevisan (TreviÃ±o) debian/changelog * Update changelog * https://deb.li/3AM1z
<KGB-1> gnome-shell ubuntu/focal 9849d01 Marco Trevisan (TreviÃ±o) (211 files in 43 dirs) * Merge tag 'debian/3.36.1-4' into ubuntu/master * https://deb.li/FMnl
<KGB-1> gnome-shell ubuntu/focal 33a2bca Marco Trevisan (TreviÃ±o) debian/patches/ (15 files in 2 dirs) * Refresh patches * https://deb.li/3fZdI
<KGB-1> gnome-shell ubuntu/focal cffce68 Daniel van Vugt debian/patches/ series ubuntu/keep-ubuntu-logo-bright-lp1867133-v1.patch * debian/patches: Keep the Ubuntu logo bright * https://deb.li/ixK0R
<KGB-1> gnome-shell ubuntu/focal cf06bf1 Marco Trevisan (TreviÃ±o) debian/changelog * Update changelog * https://deb.li/49Wd
<seb128> Trevinho, k
<seb128> Trevinho, you can upload the same version again, I will reject the previou one
<Trevinho> seb128: ok, but that's already in git, so maybe I prefer not to force-push, as team prefers
<Trevinho> seb128: also got an eamil about https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/libfprint/fprintd/-/issues/23, not sure we want to change that as could be part of 2.0
<seb128> Trevinho, seems fine for new cycle, we should discuss it still to see how we feel about it
<Trevinho> yeah, as Bastien wants it part of fprintd2.0
<Trevinho> so not sure whether we'll SRU that or not
<seb128> probably but we can revert unwante changes
<seb128> ricotz, hey, did you try to debug the libreoffice/help issue?
<KGB-2> mutter ubuntu/master 4aaccc5 Marco Trevisan (TreviÃ±o) debian/changelog * debian/changelog: Use proper bug reference for compiler-warning bug * https://deb.li/hXBh
<Trevinho> seb128: ^ re-uploaded
<KGB-2> mutter ubuntu/focal c1dc5a9 Marco Trevisan (TreviÃ±o) debian/changelog * debian/changelog: Use proper bug reference for compiler-warning bug * https://deb.li/3QXJV
<KGB-2> mutter ubuntu/focal dc2a4ed Marco Trevisan (TreviÃ±o) debian/changelog * Finalise changelog * https://deb.li/1BK1
<KGB-2> mutter signed tags 93a1fe4 Marco Trevisan ubuntu/3.36.2-1ubuntu1_20.04.1 * mutter Debian release 3.36.2-1ubuntu1~20.04.1 * https://deb.li/37FvA
<ricotz> seb128, hi, no
<oSoMoN> seb128, I cannot upload adwaita-icon-theme to groovy, but I merged and pushed all the changes to https://salsa.debian.org/gnome-team/adwaita-icon-theme/-/tree/ubuntu/master
<oSoMoN> could you please sponsor it? I'll then do the paperwork and prepare the SRU to focal
<GunnarHj> Some core dev who can unlink simple-scan from upstream series (to fix a translation import issue)?
<GunnarHj> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/focal/+source/simple-scan/+sharing-details
<GunnarHj> seb128: Are you still there? You know well what this is about. ^
<GunnarHj> oSoMoN: Can you help with this? ^
<oSoMoN> GunnarHj, can try but I'm not a core dev
<GunnarHj> oSoMoN: Ah, then I don't think it will work. I tried and failed...
<KGB-0> gnome-control-center ubuntu/master Marco Trevisan * [open] merge request !18: account-fingerprint: Don't make flowbox children selectable * https://deb.li/3Gjuh
<seb128> GunnarHj, k, done now
<GunnarHj> seb128: Thanks!
#ubuntu-desktop 2020-05-08
<callmepk> good morning
<KGB-2> atk debian/master Janitor * [open] merge request !2: Fix some issues reported by lintian * https://deb.li/3lkK7
<duflu> Morning callmepk 
<callmepk> morning duflu 
<seb128> goood morning desktopers
<duflu> Hi seb128 
<duflu> Happy Friday (?)
<seb128> hey duflu, happy friday! how are you today?
<duflu> OK. But hopefully more OK after a long sleep tomorrow
<seb128> I'm looking forward sleeping some more hours as well tomorrow :-)
<duflu> seb128, is Launchpad git down?
<duflu> Hmm, nope. Just so slow it looks broken
<RikMills> morning. has anyone tried a gui upgrade (no -d) from 19.10 -> 20.04 since they were turned on last night? at least in kubuntu, it still says upgrading to devel release
<sameee> hello, i'm trying to get gphoto2 to get my dslr to stream a webcam virtual device
<sameee> it's not working, something about a pipeline not being able to be constructed
<sameee> i'm not really wanting to get into the oil business in this current market environment and I understand the reluctance of the computer to avoid doing so also but it would be good if gphoto2 worked.
<seb128> duflu, I didn't ry it today
<seb128> rikMills, I didn't, but that's a better question for #ubuntu-release
<seb128> sameee, hey, try #ubuntu for user questions
<sameee> thx seb128
<duflu> seb128, I think the internet pipes are clogged
<duflu> It's a busy time
<jibel> lp git works fine here
<RikMills> I have a feeling the server thing that syncs uploads to git runs a lot about this time?
<jibel> no luck with automated smoke tests of images, kernel crash 
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<duflu> Morning oSoMoN
<seb128> lut oSoMoN, happy friday! how are you?
<oSoMoN> hey duflu 
<oSoMoN> salut seb128, happy Friday!
<oSoMoN> I'm good, and you?
<oSoMoN> (aren't you off today?)
<seb128> oSoMoN, I'm good, and no, I'm going to swap it and get some extra buffer days :)
<oSoMoN> that's wise :)
<oSoMoN> seb128, thanks for sponsoring adwaita-icon-theme
<KGB-0> atk debian/master Samuel Thibault * [merge] merge request !2: Fix some issues reported by lintian * https://deb.li/3lkK7
<seb128> oSoMoN, np!
<duflu> Oh groovy desktop ISOs. Fun
<jibel> groovy isos but they are failing smoke tests cf bug 1877538
<ubot5> bug 1877538 in debian-cd (Ubuntu) "preseed directory missing from Groovy images" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1877538
<jibel> paride, I reported bug 1877575, can you confirm it. It seems to affect focal only, I can boot groovy.
<ubot5> bug 1877575 in qemu (Ubuntu) "kernel crash with 0010:ovl_open_realfile+0x4a/0x150 [overlay] in Qemu with focal daily" [Critical,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1877575
<paride> jibel, done, and I added a hopefully useful bit of information: the exact image serial when the problem began
<kenvandine> My xenial VM boots so fast
<jibel> paride, great, thx
<kenvandine> seb128: any interesting bugs fixed in gtk 3.24.20?  Wondering if I should bump the version in the gnome-3-34-1804 platform
<kenvandine> it currently has 3.24.18
<seb128> kenvandine, not really no, some small fixes, https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-/blob/gtk-3-24/NEWS
#ubuntu-desktop 2020-05-10
<juliank> just leaving that here, but snap-store on 20.04 breaks installing .deb files? https://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/gh5rcp/til_snap_store_killed_ubuntusoftware_on_default/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
<juliank> also I can't refresh to latest/stable/ubuntu-20.04 channel on groovy, but not sure that's a bug
<juliank> hmm seems to work for me (on groovy), maybe they had stable installed before, and not the ubuntu-20.04 channel
