#ubuntu-quality 2013-05-20
<smartboyhw> Hey chilicuil + SergioMeneses
<balloons> good evening smartboyhw_
<smartboyhw_> Hey balloons!!!!!!! What things have you guys discussed during vUDS
<smartboyhw_> ?
<balloons> smartboyhw_, howdy. I'll try and get a post out this week on things, but for the moment, where you able to watch the youtube video of the summaries on the last day?
<balloons> the quality piece is less than 5 mins and summarizes nicely
<smartboyhw_> balloons: No, I was busy revising biology.
<elfy> luckily it's right at the end so easy to find
<smartboyhw_> elfy: I will catch it up in Mid-June I thinkâ¦
<smartboyhw_> I'm missing EVERY vUDS.
<elfy> it'll still be at the end and about 5 minutes long
<balloons> yea, I posted a direct link on my g+.. let me find it
<balloons> smartboyhw_, https://plus.google.com/104307250302998042813/posts/SVG49P6MUbP
<smartboyhw_> balloons: nvm I will watch it 14th Jube
<smartboyhw_> *June
<balloons> smartboyhw_, nice.. busy busy eh?
<balloons> maybe the text version in the blog post will make it easier
<smartboyhw_> balloons: Exam soon and biology test tmr.
<elfy> I have to assume you're able to hide using irc but not youtibe - you could have watched it in the time it's taking to talk about it here :)
<smartboyhw_> elfy: If I open sound I will be killed by my parents.
<elfy> thought so :)
<smartboyhw_> elfy: :)
<SergioMeneses> morning!
<smartboyhw_> Hey SergioMeneses
<SergioMeneses> smartboyhw_, look http://sergiomeneses.tumblr.com/day/2013/05/20
<SergioMeneses> balloons, \o âââ
<smartboyhw_> SergioMeneses: \o/
<balloons> \o
<balloons> yahoo owns tumblr now :-)
<smartboyhw_> balloons:Yep so?
<smartboyhw_> They always buy companies that are useless
<SergioMeneses> balloons, jajaja what a comment!
<smartboyhw_> Or rather, Yahoo doesn't know how to use them
<balloons> just making small talk, lol
<balloons> it's on the news today.. I've not used tumblr.. apparently SergioMeneses has :-)
<smartboyhw_> balloons: En you mean the programming language smalltalk or?
<balloons> smartboyhw_, no, not the programming language. It's an expression meaning, I was just making conversation..
<balloons> small talk generally refers to 'idle' conversation
<smartboyhw_> I know balloons, kidding:P
<SergioMeneses> smartboyhw_, he wants to talk, just that
<SergioMeneses> lol
<balloons> haha.. see if I explain expressions again!
<smartboyhw_> lol
<balloons> smartboyhw_, good work!
<smartboyhw_> balloons: ?
<SergioMeneses> jajaja
<balloons> smartboyhw_, I was complementing you for fooling me. I'm sorry I didn't understand it as a joke however. It's funny :-)
<elfy> LOL
<smartboyhw_> balloons: ROFL
<SergioMeneses> balloons, smartboyhw_ guys you're crazy
<smartboyhw_> SergioMeneses: WHY?
<SergioMeneses> smartboyhw_, read the log jeje ok... work time
<balloons> have a good day/evening everyone ;-)
<phillw> balloons: I see you are on a couple of hours after me, I will endeavour to attend https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek
<phillw> can you send an email re: Quality to the mailing list with cc to lubuntu-quality. I'll send my session details to our general lubuntu list.
<balloons> phillw, ohh nice, your chatting about lubuntu, cool
<balloons> yea, I haven't mentioned this much at all :-)
<balloons> it's been so crazy with vUDS and cycle kickoff stuff
<phillw> balloons: you have a copy of my email.... I also forgot about the Open Week sessions.... which is daft as I did one last realease!
<balloons> I signed up, and it's been on my calendar so I knew it was coming. But it still sneaks up on you :-)
<phillw> I think it is 'accepted' that I will do a session, so only got asked today!
<balloons> LOL!
<elfy> I got asked today as well
<phillw> elfy: blame me for that :/ as knome is away, you were the next name on my memory for xubuntu. If JoseeAntonioR cannot find some one for deffinate, I've proposed smartboyhw to do a ubuntu-studio / xubuntu session. He's held classroom sessions before.
<elfy> much too late to ask me I'm afraid
<phillw> I'm okay for tomorrow, lawn needs mowing but I can do that after the session :)
<phillw> elfy: yeah, it is a pain at short notice. Maybe when all the TL's of the flavours for testing get together we can put a TODO to check up when the Open Week after 13.10 is held :D
<elfy> get together?
<phillw> elfy: balloons has a TODO item to get at least one of the release managers / QA leads from each flavour to have a chat and introduce ourselves :)
<elfy> soiunds a great deal like thos pointless introduce yourself things at pointless company get to know each other things to me ;)
<phillw> elfy: well, this one is not just for that... it is actually to discuss things in the saucy cycle for testing and where to prioritise work to improve the tools we have for testing :)
<elfy> and this is announced where?
<phillw> But, it will also serve as the 1st time all the QA people from the flavours have been gathered together since the dissolution of the weekly QA meetings.
<elfy> phillw: sorry - but I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about
<phillw> elfy: it is a TODO :D I'm sure balloons will get to it :)
<phillw> elfy: we used to hold weekly IRC meetings, but it got fragmented. not all people could attend.
<elfy> balloons: while I think about it - it was testcase admin rights that knome  was talking about
<elfy> phillw: yea sort of knew about those
<phillw> elfy: yeah, balloons can issue those rights.
<elfy> I know - I had them at one point
<phillw> were you a naughty boy? :P
<phillw> no doubt it was lost during the change over :)
<elfy> not that I know of - r/l interfered
<elfy> no - I dropped a whole bunch of things
<phillw> indeed, r/l has a habit of that.
<elfy> it was only this week I remembered to sort out qa mailing list again
<phillw> jajaja
<phillw> elfy: oh, and before I forget, I asked the new maintainer of LSC, the renaming of it is a relatively simple task as the name is held in .po area (translation area). Obviously we would then need the translations doing but asking translation teams to change "Lubuntu Software Centre" into "Light Software Centre" should not overly tax them :)
<elfy> with regard to Xubuntu do you mean?
<elfy> if so afaik we're sticking with what we have for at least the time being
<phillw> elfy: okies. No worries :)
<elfy> knome will know for sure, but I'm postive that's the case
<elfy> that said Light Software Centre sounds a lot better as an app name
<phillw> elfy: the offer for the teams is available until end of may when feature freeze happens.
<phillw> +1
<phillw> it *should* work on any debian based system.
<elfy> yep - I did try it once
<phillw> elfy: yup, it seems to work perfectly if you install it after the OS is running, it was a bug where when installed as part of the seed file it did not build the database. So ****ing annoying and so easy to fix :D
<elfy> :)
<balloons> sorry, reading scrollback now
<balloons> ok so elfy you need rights. Knome should be able to add you to the lp group that has xubuntu rights
<balloons> assuming he wants you to be able to do release type things for xubuntu :-)
<elfy> :)
<elfy> I'd assume he'll see this in here at some point then
<balloons> on the 'meeting' thing. Yes, once a cycle I ask all the flavor QA leads to meet up with myself and just talk a little QA. How's testing going, need help with something, here's some help on doing X, etc
<balloons> in addition, we get to all meet each other if we haven't. It's a sync up. Things that have happened in the past from this are basically people realizing they are working on similar goals and could work together on it. Or they could take advantage of something someone else has already done, etc
<balloons> if no one has anything like that, well, then, it's 10 mins of your time to say hello
<balloons> :-p
<elfy> :)
<balloons> afternoon Letozaf_
<choctawhatchee> hey, balloons got a bug question regarding bug#1171061
<balloons> choctawhatchee, bug 1171061
<ubot5> bug 1171061 in xorg (Ubuntu) "Icons not displayed correctly on desktop and in browser with color corruption over terminal." [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1171061
<balloons> choctawhatchee, so what are you wondering about?
<choctawhatchee> i recently sold the computer i did this test on, but these display issues do not occur with Fedora 18 xfce and lxde spins.
<balloons> choctawhatchee, ahh.. bummer. So it's a bit hard to test / confirm a fix at this point then
<balloons> choctawhatchee, did you use the same drivers on both?
<choctawhatchee> yes, default drivers
<balloons> ok, so I wonder if it was an nouveau driver difference issue, etc.. anyways, if you sold the pc, not sure there's much you can do at this point
<choctawhatchee> i do have a agp card from that era that i could use to test in another computer
<balloons> it might be worth closing the bug, testing on the new card and seeing how it goes
<balloons> so you can give fresh logs, etc
<choctawhatchee> so how do i close the bug in question?
<balloons> Noskcaj, howdy
<Noskcaj> morning balloons
<balloons> how's your tuesday?
<Noskcaj> good, i've only just woke up though
<phillw> hi Noskcaj :)
<balloons> hehe.. true :-)
<Noskcaj> morning phillw
<Noskcaj> do either of you have any idea how we can get the merges into testdrive? the devs aren't responding
<phillw> Noskcaj: as that is a canoical issue, balloons is your best bet. Do please remember that a lot of the 'crew' have been involved in the vUDS / trying to schedule vacations etc after a release.
<Noskcaj> phillw, ok
<balloons> phillw, Noskcaj did you check out that we're mentioned in here? http://www.itworld.com/print/356932
<Noskcaj> balloons, interesting read.
<Noskcaj> balloons, just got a reply, http://paste.ubuntu.com/5685052/
<balloons> Noskcaj, did you ask the testdrive devs about merging?
<Noskcaj> balloons, yep, they merged both of my requests, but not howard's yet
<balloons> Noskcaj, ahh.. you won't always get instant merges; particularly when there's code to review :-) Don't let that slow you down at any. You can hacking away and know that it will get safely merged before saucy is out
<balloons> wow, missing some words in there :-) but you get the point
<Noskcaj> ok, my fixes have mostly been in-code documentation fixes. i'll try and do something semi-important now
<Noskcaj> while you're online, why do edubuntu and studio still come up as "DVD"?
<balloons> it's all important :-)
<phillw> Noskcaj: +1, merges have to really happen before the end of the month. getting them in now reduces the 'paper-work' :D
<balloons> Noskcaj, because they are dvd's ;-)
<phillw> +1
<balloons> afaik, studio and edubuntu only produce dvd versions
<Noskcaj> balloons, but aren't ubuntu and kubuntu now dvd size too?
<phillw> balloons: Noskcaj indeed they do. AFAIK, only lubuntu has a CD sized ISO
<balloons> Noskcaj, yes everyone but lubuntu has >cd size images
<balloons> however, the target is more a flash drive than a dvd
<Noskcaj> balloons, oh, ok,
<balloons> Noskcaj, right.. the release team decided a couple cycles ago to allow the image to grow organically
<balloons> it was limited to cd size but it was harder and harder to meet that each time
<balloons> so it's just slightly too big for a cd now :-)
<phillw> Noskcaj: and believe you me, for lubuntu to maintain CD size is not easy!
<Noskcaj> phillw, keep trying, we need a non-netboot iso
<phillw> Noskcaj: I have made julien aware of the fact alternate iso no longer works. As it has been dropped by everyone else, this is a large task to force upon lubuntu what it used to be maintained by canonical people :'(
<Noskcaj> phillw, i assume you can't just copy stuff from netboot
<phillw> Noskcaj: in the past, cdupdate worked with an alternate cd http://askubuntu.com/questions/202945/how-to-upgrade-from-12-04-to-12-10-using-cd this is no longer supported, which came as complete news to us :(
<chilicuil> balloons: hi there, I've seen you've updated a bunch of bugs, I'm already working on the first work item, currently downloading every ubuntu flavor to check whether they have or not manual testcases
<balloons> chilicuil, you rock! Yes, this goes for phillw Noskcaj SergioMeneses too. I scheduled out the work items into months for when I plan to work on them. In some cases your work item (if you agreed to help) might have been moved as well. You certainly don't need to move the work items into a month if you don't wish to. But it should help you see what's going on and what I'll be attempting to work on when..
<Noskcaj> i'll do what i can, contact me tomorrow, i have school in 15min and cadets in the evening
<balloons> Noskcaj, it's just information for you.. This is our big board to track all the work going on: http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-s/group/topic-s-community-quality.html
<balloons> you've got 2 work items :-)
<balloons> but you've got the cycle to plan and do them in
<phillw> balloons: chilicuil the test cases for lubuntu are "a work in progress" for 13.10, our aim is for post 13.10 to aim our meagre resources to 14.04 which will be our 1st LTS.
<balloons> phillw, I'm excitied to see you and team working on them
<phillw> balloons: 13.10 may be a bit 'rough round the edges', we are forced to release it for reasons you well know.
<Noskcaj> Has anything happened towards getting the xubuntu testcases automated?
<balloons> Noskcaj, elfy and knome are the people to chat with about xubuntu. However, in general, we're trying to push forward autopilot again :-)
<chilicuil> phillw: ok, so you want I skip lubuntu?, otherwise I'll fill lots of reports =P
<thomi> also, join #ubuntu-autopilot :)
<thomi> balloons: ^^
<thomi> oh, you're already there
<phillw> Noskcaj: when ever you get an update on test-drive, please do let the team know as https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom_13.10#Section_3 needs planning
<thomi> sorry
<balloons> thomi, :-) I've been spying already
<phillw> chilicuil: we HAVE to release a 13.10, the desktop support time is now only 9 months.
<balloons> but yes, thomi and friends in #ubuntu-autopilot are raring to help (ohh wait, that's last cycle haha)
<Noskcaj> phillw, i'm yet to have either of the devs available at a time howard and i are awake, i'll let you know if anything happens
<phillw> balloons: chilicuil our devs are working hard on splitting GTK applications to Qt. Hence the original idea of leaving 13.10 out. To be honest, things are a mess with GTK and as Canonical seem to be heading to Qt they are working as fast as they can. chilicuil there is no reason not to flag up test cases for lubuntu that need doing. The Qt replacements will have to have the same functionality.
<phillw> our major one, pcmanfm, already does have a test suite. This does need updating, of that I am aware.
<chilicuil> phillw: yep, tests 1511, then I'll check out what tests are missing in lubuntu, thanks for the update =)
<phillw> chilicuil: after my disk crash and the updates to the qa staging area for test cases, I'm not sure how many of the lubuntu specific test cases are still there on 'apps'.
<phillw> chilicuil: balloons got most, if not all, of them transferred
<SergioMeneses> I havent items yet http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-s/group/topic-s-community-quality.html
<SergioMeneses> balloons, phillw and when is the first cadence week? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Cadence/Saucy
<phillw> SergioMeneses: I have no idea, lubuntu have reverted back to alpha / beta :)
<SergioMeneses> phillw, I see
<phillw> It just did not work for us.
<SergioMeneses> phillw, why?
<balloons> SergioMeneses, no work items eh?
<balloons> well your welcome to add your name to something ;-)
<balloons> SergioMeneses, first cadence week will probably be around alpha 1
<SergioMeneses> balloons, I'm just kidding :P Im going to give a hand about servers
<phillw> SergioMeneses: because we were not pushing for a specific application to be heavily tested.
<SergioMeneses> phillw, sounds good
<balloons> however we have an idea that was proposed that I have to mockup for everyone to look at
<SergioMeneses> balloons, sure
<balloons> basically following all our core packages all cycle
<phillw> balloons: I'd love to have pcmanfm as an auto test, but that is like writing what nautillus does!
<balloons> it's certainly possible
<phillw> balloons: there are now two versions of pcmanfm.... GTK and QT.... Would a test case work with each of them?
<balloons> ohh, there is a qt version eh
<balloons> well, you could right the tests just against the qt version
<balloons> *write
<phillw> i.e. is test case system agnostic between GTK and QT?
<balloons> they would not be the same
<balloons> they could be very similar though
<phillw> balloons: in that case, as the changes are pretty fundamental to lubuntu (and other flavours who use pcmanfm), I'd rather, at this point in time use humans.
<phillw> balloons: pcman is not only an excellent surgeon (that's his day job) he is also a very good documenter. I do not know how to spread this area he has written out to other teams (including ubuntu), but do have a read... http://blog.lxde.org/
<phillw> balloons: I've just looked at the link.... ::Mind Blown::  That is an MOTU at his best!
<balloons> nice!
<balloons> he's treading new ground :-)
<phillw> he is writing documentation so others can follow. That does take a special kind of person.....
<phillw> hay, let's not write a conversion from GTK that says "hello world" into QT.... Let's instead re-write the whole pcmanfm to it. To coin a phrase from the Apollo missions... "And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how we do things".
<phillw> which as a surgeon in the hospital, is a phrase he will know and practice each day. That he has the mental energy to carry on with lxde and add documentation for other teams is amazing.
<balloons> well said
#ubuntu-quality 2013-05-21
<kotux> Hello, is there anyone attending open week tomorrow?
<pitti> Good morning
<jibel> good morning
<Noskcaj> jibel, add yourself to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/WhoWeAre please
<Noskcaj> elfy, please add yourself to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/WhoWeAre
<Noskcaj> everyone else, also add yourself to that page
<elfy> what is it with youngsters handing out instructions - smartboyhw's good at that as well :)
<Noskcaj> elfy, :) it was one of two work items i have this cycle.
 * elfy puts on evil head then :)
<Noskcaj> ?
 * elfy refuses to do it so you don't finish your work items :p
<elfy> who's giving you work items anyway?
<Noskcaj> elfy, it appeared on the wiki, that and run a testdrive hackfest. this is what i get for living in australia (read: crappy timezone)
<Noskcaj> so i assume balloons
<elfy> lol
<elfy> wonder what team it was that balloons thought he could give you things to do in
<elfy> cos it's not Xubuntu - I have a huge list of things for you to do with regard to that :p
<Noskcaj> elfy, it was the QA team, and i'm scared now.
<elfy> :)
<elfy> don't be - I'm not as bad as phillw would say I am :D
<Noskcaj> he's not said anything about you yet, the only person who's spoken about people in xubuntu badly is ali, and only because they ignored him completely
<Noskcaj> what is on the list of stuff for me to do?
<Noskcaj> i only have 5 things to do so far
<elfy> nothing yet :)
<Noskcaj> my list 1. and 2. what balloons said, 3. testdrive classroom session, 4. get the anti-australia bugs fixed 5. i've already forgotten this one
<elfy> :)
<elfy> Noskcaj: added that elfy guy to the wiki
<Noskcaj> yay
<Noskcaj> now to get jibel, pitti, wxl and anyone else who i don't know
<Noskcaj> i have to go to air force cadets now, bye
<elfy> cya have a good time
<xnox> balloons: am around now...
<jibel> pitti, are you subscribed to autopkgtest-devel?
<jibel> the mailing list I mean
<pitti> jibel: no, I'm not
<pitti> jibel: actually, you mean the debian list? I'm there, yes
<jibel> pitti, I CCed you
<pitti> jibel: yeah, I got your CC and the ML post
<jibel> pitti, i am not subscribed to the list as it is almost only spam
<balloons> gl phillw
<balloons> xnox, ahh if your still about, I was wondering if you had merged the changes needed to have autopilot be able to introspect ubiquity yet or not?
<xnox> balloons: not yet. first day back.
<balloons> xnox, I figured since I didn't hear from you until now :-)
<balloons> welcome back. Hope you had some nice time off
<xnox> yeah, it was good.
<kotux> Hey phillw
<phillw> hi kotux
<kotux> I finally had the chance to install lubuntu via alternate iso on my netbook
<kotux> Just at the installation (i'm not done yet), I'm at the Software Selection screen
<phillw> nice :)
<kotux> As a prospective tester, I am not sure what are the essential software to install.
<kotux> For instance, is all the server stuff - Basic Ubuntu server, OpenSSH server, DNS server, etc. - necessary for the end-user/tester?
<phillw> nothing needed as of install. when it is up and running, you can have a look at using test-drive there has been a classroom session on it last cycle, but there have been some further updates and some of the classroom-sessions will be run / re-run to reflect those changes.
<phillw> the defaults selected are all needed for running the desktop system.
<kotux> There was nothing selected really, just all empty check boxes.  I ended up pressing enter to continue with the installation process. :/
<kotux> phillw, btw, I liked the minimal installer.  The installation so far has been going smoothly.
<phillw> kotux: I use the alternate all the time. It gets it tested, as most people will use the desktop version :)
<kotux> nice, I'll probably do the same.
<kotux> Ok, my netbook screen went blank, and I'm guessing the installation is done. Is this supposed to happen? Would it be safe to restart the computer now?
<phillw> hmm, what was the last thing on the screen before it went black?
<elfy> you sure it's not a screensaver
<kotux> nope, i was in the middle of an alternate install
<phillw> kotux: where had it gotten to?
<kotux> I restarted it, and it showed two error messages, that my swap partitions weren't found.  I believe the installation failed at the last minute.
<kotux> Right now, my computer is hanging at the loading screen. :-(
<phillw> kotux: try CTRL + ALT + F1 see if that gives you a terminal
<kotux> It gives me a blinking cursor without my username@hostname
<kotux> The following error messages are: "The disk drive for /dev/mapper/kimtux--vg-swap_1 is not ready yet or not present."
<phillw> hmm, seems the install died. did you ask for LVM creation?
<kotux>  "The disk drive for /dev/mapper/cryptswap1 is not ready yet or not present.
<kotux> yes
<kotux> How did it die? :)
<phillw> idk, did you use the self-check on the install iso?
<kotux> self-check?
<phillw> when you boot with the installer, it gives an option to self check.
<phillw> this ensures the install media does not have a corruption on it.
 * kotux is self-checking
<kotux> There was a defect after all: ./install/netboot/ubuntu-installer/i386/pxelinux.cfg default file failed the MD5 checksum verification
<phillw> it's always wise to run the self check before installing. just one tiny file corruption can leave you with a (very) poorly system.
<kotux> good thing it didn't finish either.
<phillw> yup, that corruption is in the installer system and most likely why it died part way through.
<phillw> before you re-create the installer media, do an md5checksum on the iso you downloaded to check it is not corrupt.
<phillw> the md5's are listed at http://phillw.net/isos/lubuntu/raring/release/MD5SUMS (it's the one I remember in my head).
<phillw> but will also be on where you got the iso from
<kotux> So how exactly do I do a md5checksum?
<phillw> kotux: is the iso on a *buntu machine?
<kotux> yes
<phillw> start a terminal session, and cd to the directory the iso is in
<phillw> if do an
<phillw> ls *iso
<phillw> it should list the file for you.
<phillw> *if you do*
<kotux> yeah
<phillw> md5sum *iso
<phillw> that will generate the md5 checksum which MUST match the one in the table
<kotux> ok
<kotux> if the file was corrupted, would the md5sum still match the table's?
<phillw> if they do not match, you will need to re-download. If there is a corruption the md5sum will NOT match the table :)
<kotux> wow, that's neat
<kotux> whoa, I need to get something straight;  I believe lubuntu's testing effort is on Ubuntu 13.10.
<phillw> kotux: indeed, but at this stage, it is usual to test on  a virtual machine running on 13.04 :)
<kotux> 13.04  *buntu?
<phillw> the improvements made to testdrive make this easy for someone new to the world of testing, Yes, you can test any *buntu on any *buntu. We are all the same family :)
<kotux> Surely, my Acer One on Intel Atom processor on Lubuntu can handle that!
<phillw> it is one of the reasons I like lubuntu. It leaves enough resources for me to run virtual machines :)
<kotux> Awesome
 * kotux now will take a break by eating breakfast
<phillw> and watch Nicholas's presentation :)
<kotux> yeah
<SergioMeneses> phillw, kotux take sit
<melodie> hi
<balloons> hello melodie
<balloons> morning kotux
<balloons> I think I'll have some food myself :-)
<balloons> all this breakfest talk and typing works up the appetite
<kotux> great session balloons
<melodie> hi balloons
<melodie> It would be difficult for me to get involved deeply here, but I would enjoy a discussion about eventual tests related to jobsadmin and the gtk app which goes along with it
<balloons> jobsadmin.. hmm, I hadn't heard of it befor
<balloons> melodie, are you involved in the project?
<melodie> I am involved in another project : creating a very easy to go Ubuntu Openbox Remix, and the jobsadmin tool can't be used with efficiency, and as it's the only tool which misses quality I feel frustrated
<balloons> thanks kotux I hope it was a helpful overview. Everytime I do something like that I always want to run to the wiki to make sure everything I said is laid out just as clear in there :-)
<melodie> balloons I'll seek for the page of bug reports related to it and show you
<melodie> If you are ok with that of course
<balloons> hmm.. is it still actively developed?
<balloons> https://launchpad.net/jobsadmin
<melodie> it is available in the latest repos at least
<melodie> and we do need a tool which allows us to manage comfortably the processes
<melodie> let's put it this way:
<melodie> Ubuntu is the distribution used by mostly average users, not only end users, and average users don't like to ramble into the docs to send some cryptic commands to the console, in order to create some "override" files, for processes they don't want to be started while booting
<melodie> example:
<melodie> I use printing once a while, and would like to be able to start it on the fly, but at times in the year I'll use it each day. so what I need is a gui tool easy to go to change the setup whenever I need. same for bluetooth, samba, whatever.
<melodie> jobs admin is there for that purpose: however it does not work in a way which allows performing these operations.
<melodie> in fact it's useless, which is a great pita
<melodie> or pity... now sure how to say it
<balloons> melodie, hmm.., Well, I'm unsure of why you would want to be changing the setup in that way
<balloons> however upstart allows you to stop and start things, even applications now
<balloons> that might be what your after
<balloons> as far as jobsadmin and the issues your mentioning. If they are filed as bugs, the next step is for a developer to fix them.. then from a QA perspective you can iterate and test the fixes
<melodie> balloons that is interesting
<kotux> hey balloons, I have a netbook that I can dedicate as a lubuntu machine.  Do you recommend I testdrive the daily iso or dogfood it?  Either way I'm fine.
<balloons> melodie, this may help explain a bit on your issue: http://askubuntu.com/questions/19320/whats-the-recommended-way-to-enable-disable-services
<melodie> I finish a mail to someone and after I'll go check how the bug reports have moved forward or not moved at all
<melodie> balloons no that does not help
<balloons> ok ;-0
<balloons> but here's the upstart link:
<balloons> http://upstart.ubuntu.com/
<melodie> we need an efficient tool, such as the one in Archlinux or in Fedora and co : something which allows dealing with services with one or two clicks after the root password is provided
<balloons> kotux, both :-) hehe
<balloons> I would grab a daily, install it and then dogfood
<melodie> and this tool should manage upstart jobs as well as the classic init jobs still used for the time being
<balloons> at some point you may wipe and re-install from a milestone image
<kotux> balloons, that would mean I need backup skills
<balloons> kotux, ahh.. if the machine isn't purely a testing machine, then yea, just dogfood :-)
<balloons> upgrade and have at it
<balloons> you can participate in all the new package testing that way too
<phillw> kotux: one way to enable a part of this is to have a seperate /home partition. It is not a full guarantee, but if a test install borks completely you can use the manual format and mark it to be used as /home but mark it as NOT to be formatted ;)
<balloons> melodie, well again, I don't really get why your wanting to change services around, etc. However, if you don't want to use upstart, there are other tools
<phillw> this was what I did when I borked my production machine after getting a bit carried away with tasksel (the software selector window you saw during your alternate install)
<melodie> balloons upstart rules most of the jobs, so I don't think it is an option
<melodie> <balloons> melodie, well again, I don't really get why your wanting to change services around, etc.
<melodie> to spare resources
<melodie> this is obvious if you have machines which age is bigger than... let's say, three of four years
<balloons> melodie, anyways; http://superuser.com/questions/566248/services-manager-for-debian-to-change-whether-a-service-starts-onboot-or-not-my
<melodie> having all services running when only a few are needed currently is a waste for the cpu and ram
<kotux> How exactly do I create a separate home partition?  I have the alternate-install for entire disk.
<kotux> phillw
<balloons> melodie, I've run minimal installs.. I typically don't have any services running if it's that much a matter of life and death -- they aren't installed
<phillw> kotux: fyi, it is feeding time here. I will reply to any posts after it. Setting up a /home needs a bit of pen, paper and basic maths to work out the best partitioning table for you.
<balloons> the basic gnome services gui and bum I've seen and heard of before.. you can view the rest..
<phillw> I'll be back in ~30 mins
<kotux> k
<balloons> kotux, yes a seperate home is nice, and I certainly advocate and use it. However if you don't seperate it out, ubiquity shouldn't wipe it out on a re-install
<melodie> balloons : they aren't installed // this is not the option which fits best the needs of most people
<kotux> balloons: i'm using alternate-install.
<balloons> melodie, :-) I wish you the best. If your an advanced user you have many options. If your not it can be hard. I would advocate setting up a system that doesn't require that much knowledge burden on the user. But I wish you luck. It's not an easy problem
<balloons> The post I linked contains all the suggestions I would have and then some. But I would caution you if you even need to the tool at all, as it sounds like your audience is non-technical. What's the name of your remix?
<melodie> balloons Ubuntu Openbox Remix : code name Bento2
<melodie> the presentation is unavailable right now, but will be again within a few days
<melodie> all I can point to now is a few screenshots and the download space
<melodie> balloons here are all the reports about bugs in jobs-admin: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/+bugs?field.searchtext=jobs-admin&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=NEW&field.status%3Alist=CONFIRMED&field.status%3Alist=TRIAGED&field.status%3Alist=INPROGRESS&field.status%3Alist=FIXCOMMITTED&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.importance%3Alist=UNDECIDED&field.assignee=&field.bug_repor
<melodie> ter=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_patch=&field.has_no_package=
<melodie> humm long url... :s
<melodie> here is one where I added my own feedback: https://bugs.launchpad.net/jobsadmin/+bug/917738
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 917738 in jobs-admin "Python Traceback on every action" [Undecided,New]
<melodie> the guy who had done a new version fixing some bugs lost his webspace and never uploaded anew
<melodie> https://bugs.launchpad.net/jobsadmin/+bug/705158/comments/12
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 705158 in jobs-admin "ValueError: too many values to unpack" [Medium,Fix committed]
<phillw> hmm, now where'd he go? :D
<balloons> lunch :-)
<phillw> balloons: not you, but when you get back. Is there a central area that you can view both the video, irc and etherpad per session or is it now three links that need to be given?
<balloons> phillw, the summit links are good..However, the pad is migrated to the blueprint whiteboard, so it isn't needed
<balloons> I guess the answer is link to each summit.u.c page
<balloons> melodie, I see the links. If there is no developer for jobsadmin, it's unsupported, and I wouldn't plan your remix around having the tool since it's buggy
<balloons> basing off what you told me :-)
<melodie> balloons for the time being this is how you say, however for the future, I think it would be good to spread the word about that tool and have the devs consider working on it
<balloons> phillw, so I want to send something around about the classroom sessions today too
<phillw> balloons: could you re-run the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom_13.10#Section_1 one on test cases? things have moved on a lot... possibly split it into bite size chunks for manual test cases / auto-pilot as classrooms or hackfests with introductions?
<balloons> phillw, I wanted to have something to post to the mailing list that's a bit sane..
<balloons> so people can signup for sessions, etc.. Can we just post a blank template for 13.10 and have folks fill in?
<balloons> we can let them reference the old 13.04 session
<balloons> hello DanChapman
<balloons> as far as what I'll host.. Umm, I'd like to fill in I think and help people with there sessions
<balloons> and I'll take what's leftover if there's something we feel needs attention and no one signed up. how's that sound?
<DanChapman> Hey folks
<balloons> DanChapman, I got your email. I'll send something along to you later. But feel free to ping me anytime :-)
<balloons> If you missed this session I held this morning, look at the log. It should give you some nice background on the team and what's out there for you if you need it
<phillw> balloons: I'm okay with the ones allocated to me on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom_13.10 and also okay to be around with you when smartboyhw runs the 3.1 classroom. But the section 1 could do with being split, a lot happened last cycle :D
<balloons> I trust your judgment :-) Mock up the page and I'll prep the mail to the list
<DanChapman> balloons: ok that would be great, thanks. Im just reading through the log as we speak. I forgot the session was on. :(
<balloons> DanChapman, it's planning time :-) Trying to plan classroom sessions, hackfests, and cadence testing :-)
<balloons> hey, no worries.. we're always here, so fire away any questions you have
<phillw> balloons: give me 90 mins... the only television programme i REALLY like is about to start (Stargate SG1) :D
<balloons> phillw, hehe.. enough said. Enjoy yourself :-)
<balloons> afternoon Letozaf_
<Letozaf_> balloons, Hi :D
<balloons> Letozaf_, will the hackfest date work for you this week?
<balloons> I know your dying to dig in :-)
 * Letozaf_ is checking
<Letozaf_> balloons, yeah you're right
<Letozaf_> balloons, I can dig in not from the beginning but I can be there
<balloons> Letozaf_, excellent :-) Yea, you don't have to be there the WHOLE time :-p
<Letozaf_> balloons, :D
<DanChapman> i'll get in on a hackfest :D , what date are you thinking? so i can pencil it in
<balloons> DanChapman, sent a mail to the list with the details (I hope!) ;-)
<balloons> but it's this thursday for the first one
<balloons> the one on june 4th and june 13th
<balloons> *then
<DanChapman> balloons: ok great :D. The list hasn't got round to me yet then :(. But will jot them down
<balloons> Letozaf_, phillw, DanChapman Is this understandable to you? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Cadence/Saucy
<balloons> for reference here's the one from last cycle: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Cadence/Raring
 * Letozaf_ is reading 
<balloons> I'm mainly concerned with the schedule at the bottom :-) Does it look sane?
<balloons> or is there too much detail from the release schedule on it
<Letozaf_> balloons, for me it's clear and looks sane :D
<balloons> DanChapman, here's the full details :-) https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-quality/2013-May/003732.html
<DanChapman> balloons, looks clear to me.
<DanChapman> thanks
<balloons> Letozaf_, DanChapman wow.. ok, I guess I'll leave it be
<balloons> I kind of liked the old one better, but we shall see.
<Letozaf_> balloons, I think it even better than the Raring one
<balloons> :-p
<balloons> good.. it's for you all, not me!
<Letozaf_> balloons, :P sure!
<balloons> I mean I use to also, but both make sense to me, so :-)
<balloons> Letozaf, I've got one more thing for you to look at it you've got a moment
<Letozaf> balloons, sure,
<Letozaf> balloons, had a problem with my PC  :p
<balloons> :-p
<balloons> so, remember the cadence testing idea that was presented during vUDS?
<balloons> basically to follow all the packages we care about all cycle and push new builds for them as they are created?
<Letozaf> balloons, yes more or less :p
<balloons> ok, so I've mocked up 2 examples of it
<balloons> http://packages.qa.dev.stgraber.org/qatracker/milestones/253/builds
 * Letozaf is reading
<balloons> and
<balloons> http://packages.qa.dev.stgraber.org/qatracker/milestones/252/builds
<balloons> Letozaf, basically if you look it's showing the 2 ways we can do it
<balloons> have a milestone for each package, or lump them all together into one milestone(s)
<balloons> the "magic" then is here: http://packages.qa.dev.stgraber.org/qatracker/milestones/253/history
<balloons> and here: http://packages.qa.dev.stgraber.org/qatracker/milestones/252/history
<balloons> essentially you can follow along with the old results and bug reports, etc
<balloons> so everytime a new version hits the archive you can see test results for it
<balloons> in addition, you could subscribe to your favorite packages and be notified about new versions (and test them :-) )
<phillw> balloons: does https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom_13.10 look sane to you? The new ones and ones that have to be re-run are reset, you can ask if others want to re-run the classrooms from 13.04 with updates.
<balloons> that's the basic idea.. so I mocked this up quickly, I trust it makes a little sense. I'd like to share it with everyone soon and see what they think of it, in comparision to the traditional way we did cadence testing last cycle
<Letozaf> balloons, that maybe having a milestone for each package looks "more neat" and understandable to the "lumped all together one"
<balloons> phillw, if you want to have a look as well, I'd be happy to hear your feedback, see the scrollback
 * balloons is looking at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom_13.10
<Letozaf> balloons,  its easier to see previous bugs and results for the package
<balloons> Letozaf, ok, so you like each package being it's own milestone so you just get it's history
<balloons> kk.. I think so too
<Letozaf> balloons, yes!
<Letozaf> balloons, very nice, good job :D
<phillw> balloons: I've got 3 hours, I hope others will step up to mark and allocate time for the other areas :)
<balloons> phillw, looks good.. uou need to edit out the old day and times though :)
<phillw> balloons: ah, 3.5 hours!
<phillw> balloons: the lesson on, say, zsync is still valid. I can re-run it if that is desired.
<balloons> right.. I would leave it all up and we'll see the feedback we get
<balloons> just wipe the days and times from it
<balloons> Letozaf, so overall as an idea do you think this would be useful in comparison to how cadence testing was done last time?
<phillw> balloons: by my bad maths - that is about 12 hours of classrooms to be held!
<balloons> phillw, nice!
<balloons> It's exciting to see everyone step up and pitch in.. i like the student becoming the teacher.. so we'll round up some of last cycle's students :-)
<balloons> hehe
<phillw> I'll remove the old links, as long as we still reference to them so that what can be re-used is :D
<balloons> phillw, let's copy the classroom page as-is to a /raring version
<balloons> so https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom/Raring
<balloons> and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom/Saucy
<balloons> for the final page names..
<balloons> we'll convert https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom to a landing page
<balloons> :-)
<Letozaf> balloons, yes I think it would be very useful
<balloons> phillw, I used raring and saucy because we use that elsewhere instead of the numeric equivalent.. precedence, heh
<Letozaf> balloons, you've got all the bugs there so you can go an see what happened previously
<Letozaf> Letozaf, and maybe avoid duplicate ones :p
<balloons> yes, I know you don't like dupes :-)
<balloons> me netheir!
<Letozaf> balloons, :p
<balloons> Letozaf, so have you met Vasudevan? He's been hacking on the autopilot tests.. And DanChampman who left just a bit ago too
<balloons> you should have some company for hacking :-)
<phillw> balloons: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom_13.10 better?
<balloons> Vasudevan, meet Letozaf another contributor to the autopilot testcases
<Vasudevan> hi
<Letozaf> balloons, I've been "reading" a bit what they were doing but did not "introduce" myself :p
<Vasudevan> still getting to know autopliot
<Letozaf> Vasudevan, hi
<balloons> phillw, good enough for me.. I can rename the page and send it round the list to see what happens
<phillw> balloons: as soon as your happy with the 13.10 setup, I'll rename them both :)
<balloons> thanks for your help in prepping this
<Letozaf> Vasudevan, welcome hope you have fun hacking autopilot
<balloons> phillw, ahh.. I did make https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom/Raring
<Vasudevan> Letozaf, thanks
<balloons> so Vasudevan this channel is sometimes busy / sometimes quiet, depending on who's awake :-) But feel free to hangout here and ask questions, etc...
<phillw> balloons: that's fine, I can just rename the 13.10 one as Saucy :D
<balloons> you'll meet some people who work on all sorts of different stuff in ubuntu-quality
<balloons> phillw, perfect :-)
<Vasudevan> <balloons>, thanks, when I "joined" this channel, I lost the autopilot window in my browser - how come?
<balloons> Vasudevan, ohh, that's not good ;-( Are you on a webclient?
<Vasudevan> balloons, I am using firefox
<balloons> I see your still in the #ubuntu-autopilot channel :-)
<balloons> Vasudevan, so you went to this address? http://webchat.freenode.net/
<Vasudevan> balloons, I can see only the quality channel
<phillw> I'll keep the page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom and amend it to simply point to the two new pages. That way, if people have it bookmarked they will not get a 404 error (which is seriously frowned upon :P )
<balloons> phillw, yes, make https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom a landing page. And we'll want to link to it from the activities page as well
<Vasudevan> balloons,  thats right.
<balloons> if you can manage that
<balloons> Vasudevan, so it looks like if you look at the top of your screen it should show 3 tabs
<balloons> on the webpage itself, not firefox tabs :-)
<balloons> one should say status, one #ubuntu-quality and one #ubuntu-autopilot
<balloons> click the tabs to move between the chats
<Vasudevan> balloons, got it, I can see autopliot tab and switch to it
<balloons> if there is a pending message it should glow blue
<balloons> Vasudevan, :-)
<balloons> Vasudevan, I'll try not to confuse you but you can also use a desktop client to connect if you wish.. I'll just leave this link here: http://askubuntu.com/questions/8015/what-irc-clients-are-available
<Vasudevan> balloons, sure I will get one of these for better visibility
<Letozaf> balloons, #ubuntu-autopilot is not in the logs here: irclogs.ubuntu.com
<balloons> I use xchat.. but like everything people have there own preferences
<balloons> Letozaf, ohh.. good catch!
<thomi> Letozaf: there's a ticket open to adress that
<Letozaf> thomi, oh! fine :p
<balloons> thomi, :-) I was going to rub it in
<Letozaf> balloons, :p
<balloons> you beat me to it1
<thomi> too late!
<balloons> morning Noskcaj
<Noskcaj> morning balloons
<balloons> Vasudevan, this might also help you get to know everyone on IRC.. many people have there stuff in there: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/WhoWeAre
<balloons> Noskcaj, so we're doing lots of scheduling for the upcoming cycle today
<Noskcaj> ok
<Vasudevan> balloons, thanks, bookmarked it.
<elfy> evening balloons
<balloons> good evening elfy
<balloons> so Noskcaj and elfy want to give some feedback on the cadence testing changes I put together
<Noskcaj> changes? where?
<balloons> I'm not sure if etheir of you were around for the session we had @ vUDS talking about changing cadence testing to be a bit different
<Noskcaj> nope
<elfy> not that I remember
<balloons> k..
<balloons> the idea was to basically to follow all the packages we care about all cycle and push new builds for them as they are created
<elfy> and as I was missing last cycle there'd be no change
<balloons> so in effect you could track a package all cycle long and see it's old test results and bugs, etc
<balloons> ok, so I've mocked up 2 examples of it
<balloons> http://packages.qa.dev.stgraber.org/qatracker/milestones/253/builds and http://packages.qa.dev.stgraber.org/qatracker/milestones/252/builds
<elfy> ok
<balloons> it's showing the 2 ways we can do it; have a milestone for each package, or lump them all together into one milestone(s)
<elfy> looking
<balloons> if you look essentially you can follow along with the old results and bug reports, etc: http://packages.qa.dev.stgraber.org/qatracker/milestones/253/history and here: http://packages.qa.dev.stgraber.org/qatracker/milestones/252/history
<balloons> in addition, you could subscribe to your favorite packages and be notified about new versions (and test them :-) )
<elfy> cool
<balloons> so all that said, which way do you prefer? Having everything all lumped in as one milestone, or the 2nd way and having each package be it's own milestone?
<elfy> that sounds extraordinarily useful
<elfy> well ...
<balloons> excellent.. It was proposed by smartboyhw and someone else during the event, so I promised to mock it up
<elfy> so there 'could' be one of these for packages 'we' care about ?
<balloons> so yea.. the question is should we pursue this a opposed to how we tested last cycle.. and which way do you prefer
<elfy> for instance I'd have little interest in unity but loads in xfce4 for example
<balloons> elfy, yes, the idea is to make these for stuff 'we' care about
<elfy> k - makes sense, but I've not got the looking backward thing :)
<balloons> elfy, heh.. yes, understood :-)
<balloons> here's what we did in the past quickly: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Cadence/Raring. Basically linked out to the tracker and tested specific packages/hw/whatev's
<elfy> so basically we could have 'a' package and be able to follow it from now till 6 months and watch bugs etc
<elfy> or
<elfy> a general overview type affair ?
<balloons> each week we changed up what we focused on
<balloons> elfy, yes you could watch a package all cycle
<balloons> every build would have an entry and any test results that were entered for it, along with the list of bugs
<elfy> right - I can go for that I think :)
<Noskcaj> i prefer general overview, and can we add testdrive to the list or not?
<balloons> elfy, the difference between the two is one lumps all the stuff we care about into 1 milestone.. the other would seperate out every package
<balloons> I suppose we could do both.. lump some together, and others seperate too
<balloons> Noskcaj, yes, we could watch testdrive
<Noskcaj> :)
<balloons> the stuff we want to watch needs to be discussed
<elfy> yep
<elfy> balloons: 2 secs - need to sort out a question here and I'm tired ...
<elfy> balloons: would this be instead of http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/270/builds/44701/testcases for instance - or and expansion of that or something completely different
<balloons> elfy, in addition to the image testing
<phillw> balloons: is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom okay? (Crikey, you're popular to-night... new after-shave? :P )
<elfy> ok
<balloons> so here, have a look: http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/
<balloons> that's the packages tracker.. you can see how last cycle went more or less
<balloons> see the cadence week milestones.. each with a different scope of tests to run, etc?
<elfy> ohhhh - so this is about the cadence testing stuff only
<balloons> phillw, :-p I like a nice buzzing channel!
<balloons> elfy, yes, this was a suggestion to change how we did cadence testing
<elfy> balloons: right - yea - I'd prefer detail for specific things I think personally
<balloons> ok, so you like the milestone for each package you care about..
<balloons> and track it all cycle
<elfy> yea I think so - I'd need to talk to the boss, but right here and now I'd prefer that
<balloons> for our purposes of cadence testing then, the cadence week becomes about hitting the list of packages and running through them if they are untested
<balloons> but everyone is of course welcome to report results anytime.. the point is the milestone will always be open
<balloons> not limited to one week snapshots like last cycle
<elfy> k
<balloons> so for xubuntu.. yea, you can leverage this in any way you wish :-)
<elfy> balloons: so - if there's package X and we want to test it -we could in effect do it for 6 months if necessary and not worry about only having a week?
<balloons> phillw, yes, I like the page..
<balloons> thanks!
<balloons> btw, you can hotlink to times on those pages
<balloons> so instead of http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/05/21/%23ubuntu-classroom.html you can use http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/05/21/%23ubuntu-classroom.html#t16:01
<balloons> and go right to my session :-)
<elfy> balloons: if that's the case then it  would help I think as we tend to not get huge numbers of people testing things
<balloons> elfy, yes.. you could test at any point over the cycle.. and have all the results collated in that one spot
<phillw> balloons: thanks, I did just ask on -backroom as I knew it was possible :D
<balloons> the times on the right are linkable
<balloons> nice little anchor tags :-)
<elfy> balloons: ok - that makes sense to me and enough to be able to explain it as well :)
<balloons> elfy, great
<elfy> I can see that being useful given the testing user numbers we usually attract
<balloons> wonderful.. so it sounds like everyone likes the idea.. we'll see what the mailing list has to say
<balloons> just thought I would pick the brains of those who were live on IRC first
<elfy> balloons: so there's be the normal image testing and this detailed stuff as well
<balloons> Noskcaj, you are also for the idea right?
<Noskcaj> yep
<balloons> elfy, yes.. the normal image testing carries on as normla
<elfy> balloons: more lucking picking a cockle than my brain ...
<balloons> for ubuntu, we'll test during cadence weeks, targetting the dailies
<balloons> flavors are free to arrange it however.. and we all test during milestones :-)
<elfy> yep
<elfy> so all Noskcaj and I need to do is decide which packages we need to concentrate on for xubuntu
<elfy> specifically that is
<Noskcaj> elfy, ok. let's see what everyone else on#xubuntu-devel wants
<elfy> yep - I'll write a mail tonight/tomorrow explaining this and ask for packages
<elfy> maybe send it to you so you can have a look first
<Noskcaj> ok, sounds good
<elfy> Noskcaj: so what's your time now? about 7am ish
<Noskcaj> yep
<elfy> k - so wwe're about 9 hours apart - useful to know
<elfy> balloons: I knew I'd have a question just before I needed to hit the sack ... could we not have http://packages.qa.dev.stgraber.org/qatracker/milestones/252/builds for all (as an example) xubuntu packages we wanted to follow and then be able to drill down to http://packages.qa.dev.stgraber.org/qatracker/milestones/252/builds for the detail ?
<elfy> or is that what's anticipated and I got the wrong end of the stick when I started thinking about it again lol
<balloons> elfy, your free to arrange it however you wish
<elfy> ok - so we could do that ^^
<balloons> if you lump them into one milestone you get the good and bad that brings :-)
<balloons> if you make them seperate, it's the same thing :-)
<balloons> I think the answer is going to lie in the middle perhaps, depending on how many packages you track
<elfy> :)
<elfy> ok thanks
<balloons> make a couple milestones and track a bunch of stuff in each
<elfy> but a milestone could last for 6 months if we wanted that?
<elfy> or is that too much :p
<elfy> I can see a case for short term ones for easier things and long term ones for the bigger fish
 * elfy is probably overthinking it now lol 
<knome> you are! :P
<elfy> knome: I thought so - it's too late lol
<phillw> wb knome, I hope you had an enjoyable couple of days off?
<balloons> elfy, milestone length can be whatever you wish
<knome> yes and no - have been feeling a bit sick today
<elfy> balloons: thanks
<phillw> knome: :/
<balloons> the idea behind this we in ubuntu qa are debating is having one that last for 6 months :-)
 * balloons waves to knome 
<knome> heya balloons
<knome> :)
<knome> balloons, if i add elfy to xubuntu-release, will he get all the testsuite/-case tweaking permissions as well?
<balloons> knome, yes
<phillw> balloons: I take it that the milestone will run ~ 1- 2 weeks after final release so as to accomodate the 'zero day' bugs?
<balloons> he'll have authority to manage releases for xubuntu
<knome> balloons, i know *that* :)
<balloons> so marking builds, test, suites, etc, etc
<balloons> lol.. just warning you..
<knome> marking, but what about managing them?
<balloons> you know that elfy guy :-p
<elfy> :p
<knome> well i nominated him myself...
<balloons> phillw, that's an excellent point
<balloons> not a bad idea
<balloons> I'm mailing the post now.. add it to the feedback for everyone to see :-)
<phillw> balloons: okies, btw Noskcaj is happy to re-run the classroom session allocate to him. If only because testdrive now is more functional (can use the new Vbox etc.)
<Noskcaj> phillw, we need to get parallels fixed or out by then though
<phillw> Noskcaj: you wok with what you have, for others you issue clear work-arounds ... That is called life :)
<Noskcaj> unfortunately, the only workaround, is never use parallels
<phillw> Noskcaj: last cycle it was do not use the most up to date VBox. These things happen. I'm still spitting mad that the KVM bug seems to languish unloved.
<balloons> ok last mailing ondeck is the classroom scheduling
<balloons> I think folks are going to be buried by all the scheduling :-)
<phillw> balloons: we may be kidnapping #ubuntu-classroom for a period of 14 days. I would struggle to hold 3 X 1 hour sessions on virtualisation. People new to it would not stand a chance and leave.
<phillw> they have to learn to walk before we ask them to run :)
<elfy> Noskcaj: you have a draft now
<phillw> balloons: and as to where i add a classroom session for LVM?!!!! It's not really QA/Testing subject, but just really useful.... your thoughts?
<balloons> phillw, we should make https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom have a link to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom like the subpages
<balloons> we should also grab the old openweek and devweek sessions and link them
<phillw> balloons: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom look okay?
<balloons> phillw, yes
<balloons> mail should hit the list in a second
<balloons> then my good sir, it's time for dinner!
<phillw> it is time for bed here!
 * elfy completely forgot that it'd be pointless to be on the ubuntu-qa mailing list ... 
<smartboyhw> balloons: How's the classroom session?
#ubuntu-quality 2013-05-22
<balloons> smartboyhw_, howdy
<smartboyhw_> balloons, howdy I got a unexpected holiday today
<smartboyhw_> (smartboyhw) Hi madeinkobaia, I got a surprise holiday today, a Black Rainstorm Warning and all students are banned for school
<smartboyhw_> balloons: ^ the reason
<balloons> smartboyhw_, black rainstorm?
<balloons> nice.. stay safe
<balloons> http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1243223/black-rainstorm-warning-issued-heavy-rain-pummels-hong-kong
<smartboyhw_> balloons: Yep. But you read SCMP?!
<balloons> smartboyhw_, no if anything I'll read Asia Times
<balloons> hurricane season is starting for us here as well
<smartboyhw_> balloons: Torpedo?
<smartboyhw_> Seems like it killed a lot of people:(
<balloons> Tornado you mean?
<pitti> Good morning
<SergioMeneses> pitti, evening here
<SergioMeneses> :)
<pitti> hey SergioMeneses
<SergioMeneses> pitti, how's everything?
<pitti> quite fine, thanks! how about you?
<SergioMeneses> pitti, tired... today was my first day in a new job
<pitti> oh, congratulations
<SergioMeneses> pitti, thanks
<Noskcaj> smartboyhw__, Testdrive: i've contacted dustin, but he has no time yet.
<Noskcaj> smartboyhw__, have you put any more time into getting ubuntu gnome in? if not, i'll have a look. do you think there would be any differences other than swapping from "kylin" to "gnome" in the diff?
<jibel> good morning
<smartboyhw__> Noskcaj: Shouldn't be...
<smartboyhw__> Just the same thing
<pitti> bonjour jibel
<jibel> bonjour pitti
<chappers> morning all
<Noskcaj> evening chappers
 * pitti looks at the apport adt failure
<pitti> ileNotFoundError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/etc/motd'
<pitti> wow, we really stripped down these VMs
<pitti> jibel: seems udisks2 adt failed again because scsi_debug is not available; it does work locally (well, there's one test case failure which I'll fix now)
<pitti> jibel: do you know why the jenkins VM doesn't have linux-extra, but my prepare-testbed VM does?
<jibel> pitti, no, this is something that had been a while ago especially for this case, I'll have a look.
<pitti> jibel: I thought we'd use the very same script for building the jenkins VM, don't we?
<jibel> pitti, we install linux-image-generic which depends on linux-image-extra-3.9.0-2-generic
<pitti> hm, strange
<jibel> and I confirm scsi_debug.ko is in linux-image-extra-3.9.0-2-generic
<pitti> ERROR: could not insert 'scsi_debug': Cannot allocate memory
<pitti> hm, so maybe it's too small then
<pitti> oh, amd64 indeed doesn't have that issue, just i386
<jibel> pitti, ah, is it a problem with vmalloc too small ?
<jibel> it is set to 384MB on i386
<pitti> jibel: it tries to allocate a 300 MB scsi_debug disk
<jibel> pitti, okay, I'll increase vmalloc to 500MB see if it fixes the problem
<pitti> jibel: merci
<pitti> jibel: I'll do another upload soon
<jibel> pitti, fixed in r181 and published in the lab. We'll need to reprovision the VMs, do you want them now or wait the next automated builds tomorrow morning?
<pitti> jibel: tomorrow is fine
<pitti> jibel: merci beaucoup!
<jibel> there is not a lot of activity ATM, reprovisioning before your upload will not hurt anyone
<pitti> jibel: if it takes you less than 10 s (i. e. just a button click), sure; but I don't want to pile even more work on you
<pitti> ok, fixed both udisks test failures upstream now
<jibel> builds are running
<pitti> cheers!
<pitti> jibel: hm, I can't run lxc-ls --fancy; how can I get to the jhbuild lxc on rabisu now? 10.0.3.139 doesn't work any more
<pitti> jibel: ah, I can do that as user ubuntu, nevemrind
<Vasudevan> Archive Manager (file-roller) - basic manual interaction - create a new archive 'test.tar.gz' or 'test.zip', add couple of files;  throws error msg -  'error opening file'; how to work around this?
<balloons> Vasudevan, is this an autopilot test or a manual test?
<DanChapman> When writing autopilot tests, are we to do it in saucy or raring?
<Vasudevan> auto pilot script failed, so was trying it out manually
<balloons> Vasudevan, ahh.. That sounds like a bug, but I'm happy to try it right now and reproduce :-)
<balloons> DanChapman, we can do it in raring or saucy. However, the target for where they will be run is always the development version of ubuntu, which is currently saucy
<Vasudevan> balloons, my dev box is still quantal 12.10 ...
<balloons> Vasudevan, yes, and you had to do some workarounds to get autopilot 1.3 working right?
<balloons> Vasudevan, so let me try repeating your steps right now
<DanChapman> balloons, thanks :D
<Vasudevan> yes - to build autopilot 1.3 on quantal I had to disable lttng (ext) modules..
<balloons> Vasudevan, ok, so I added files just fine.. I'm running saucy
<balloons> is it just the file your adding?
<Vasudevan> balloons,  no - i tried adding and extracting and get error msg from the file-roller app on 12.10
<Vasudevan> also saw couple of file-roller:8385 gtk-CRITICAL msgs on the console..
<balloons> Vasudevan, bizarre.. hmm
<balloons> do I have a quantal install lying around
<balloons> it seems I do.. let me boot it
<Vasudevan> balloons, this is the msg - (file-roller:8385): Gtk-CRITICAL gtk_device_grab_add: assertion 'GDK_IS_DEVICE (device)' failed
<balloons> Vasudevan, hmm.. so it's not file-roller specific then is my guess
<balloons> is quantal up to date?
<Vasudevan> I think not..
<balloons> works fine for me..
<balloons> on quantal :-0
<Vasudevan> ok, will try running updates - is there a log file that I can look for these types of apps - does logging need to enabled in a conf file?
<balloons> log file for file-roller?
<balloons> you can log autopilot testcase runs (as you can imagine).. you can even record them
<balloons> anyways, if it's still an issue after updating you definitely have a bug..
<Vasudevan> balloons, yes - debug events and msgs from file-roller and other default apps that we test - tried to tail var/log/lightdm and was wondering if there other specific logs that we could look at
<Vasudevan> let me update and try again, thanks again.
<balloons> Vasudevan, each app is different in logging.. for general system level logs /var/log is your friend
<balloons> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LinuxLogFiles
<balloons> sometimes apps will have verbose or debugging mode
<balloons> I don't know if file-roller has such a thing
<Vasudevan> ok, thanks
<balloons> file-roller --help-all has some debug setting abilities
<Vasudevan> balloons, thanks.
<DanChapman> i'm having trouble running 'autopilot launch' here is the output i'm getting http://paste.ubuntu.com/5691358/
<DanChapman> autopilot vis works fine. But trying to have a look at the introspection tree for gedit. Any ideas anyone?
<DanChapman> ahh just found bug report https://bugs.launchpad.net/autopilot/+bug/1169593
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1169593 in Autopilot "Some applications are not introspectable" [Undecided,New]
<balloons> DanChapman, yes, some apps can give trouble
<balloons> however gedit is not among them
<balloons> it should work :-)
<balloons> what version of autopilot do you have?
<DanChapman> balloons its not for me even trying to pass -i
<balloons> apt-cache show python-autopilot
<balloons> autopilot launch gedit
<balloons> Autopilot GTK interface loaded.
<balloons> should get that :-)
<DanChapman> version: 1.2daily13.04.09-0ubuntu1
<balloons> hmm.. ok that's fine
<balloons> are you missing the introspection library
<DanChapman> whats the lib name?
<balloons> libautopilot-gtk and libautopilot-qt respectively
<balloons> at one point they were installed by default when installing python-autopilot, but I don't believe that's an issue anymore
<DanChapman> Ahh that got it, libs were not there.
<DanChapman> thanks balloons
<balloons> DanChapman, ahh.. ok, so that packaging fix must be in the new version of autopilot, 1.3
<balloons> DanChapman, found it :-) https://bugs.launchpad.net/autopilot/+bug/1158983
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1158983 in autopilot (Ubuntu Raring) "Autopilot doesn't depend on or recommend introspection libs" [Undecided,New]
<elfy> balloons: do you happen to have an easily digested starting point to working with testcases?
<balloons> elfy, watch the video on youtube would be my recommendaion
<balloons> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VO7DdlUSt_4&feature=youtu.be
<elfy> mmm - I'm not good with doing that, lose concentration easily - nothing to read?
<balloons> elfy, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/ContributingTestcases/Manual
<elfy> ta - got as far as getting them with bzr this morning
<balloons> you get the words or the video, your choice.. the video is more in-depth , more visual, etc
<elfy> k - if necessary I'll go to youtube
<balloons> also this is good to make sure your setup right: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/ContributingTestcases/Launchpad
<balloons> it's all in the tutorial tho
<elfy> k
<elfy> balloons: all looks 'fairly' self-explanatory - I'm sure there'll be need for some xubuntu ones - especially if we do this new package tracking
<balloons> elfy, yes, there is a need for xubuntu specific tests. Up until now that has been tossed into the image folder and done as part of the image testing
<elfy> yep
 * elfy sees busy in his future :p
<Letozaf> balloons, Hi
<balloons> Letozaf, hello :-)
<Letozaf> balloons, howzit ?
<Letozaf> balloons, I was looking at autopilot 1.3 for porting 1.2 tests
<balloons> indeed
<Letozaf> balloons, I was trying out the gedit test
<Letozaf> balloons, first looking at what you did with the firefox one
<Letozaf> balloons, but I do not understand why  self.assertThat(btn, NotEquals(None)) gives an error MismatchError: None == None
<Letozaf> balloons, or is it better we see this tomorrow during the hackaton
<balloons> Letozaf, hmm..
<balloons> we can talk about it now :-)
<Letozaf> balloons, it's the test_save_and_open_a_file
<Letozaf> balloons, where you click on the new "button"
<balloons> rightm sure
<Letozaf> balloons, in autopilot 1.2 it used to work, is this different in 1.3 ?
<balloons> I feel like it's just a python erorr Letozaf
<balloons> I'm trying to think about it.. it might be better to look at the code
<Letozaf> balloons, the weired thing is that it's the same exact code as in autopilot 1.2 and there it used to work
<Letozaf> balloons, I am using Saucy and autopilot 1.3
<thomi> Letozaf: might be a good idea to open vis and make sure you'er selecting on the right properties
<balloons> ohh.. good point
<balloons> I need to grab 1.3 on this pc
<thomi> select_single & select_many changes how they work slightly between 1.2 and 1.3
<Letozaf> thomi, but do you think things have changed respect to autopilot 1.2 ? I mean that same property used to work
<Letozaf> thomi, and now not anymore, the error though is the one when the property is wrong
<Letozaf> thomi, so maybe you are right, it's just weired that it was ok with 1.2
<balloons> Letozaf, ohh.. are you running the non-introspection version of gedit
<balloons> man, so much housekeeping to do tomorrow :-)
<thomi> Letozaf: maybe pastebin your failing test, and I can take a peek?
<balloons> Letozaf, your looking at this right?         btn = self.app.select_single('GtkToolButton', label='_New')
<balloons>         self.assertThat(btn, NotEquals(None))
<balloons>         self.mouse.move_to_object(btn)
<Letozaf> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5691654/
<Letozaf> thomi, #open a new blank document
<Letozaf> btn = self.app.select_single('GtkToolButton', label='_New')
<Letozaf> self.assertThat(btn, NotEquals(None))
<Letozaf> balloons, yes
<Letozaf> balloons, right lines
<Letozaf> thomi, balloons in vis I can find that property, it's still there
<thomi> Letozaf: ahhh, sorry - I was being dumb. This is a known bug, and there's actually already a patch to fix it, I just need to review it
<thomi> Letozaf: it's a problem with autopilot-gtk
<Letozaf> thomi, ok fine
<Letozaf> thomi, so I will wait :D thanks
<thomi> Letozaf: well, if you felt like it, you could grab the branch that's supposed to fix the issue, build it, install it, and tell us if it fixes the issue for you or not
<Letozaf> thomi, ok, I will try, but tomorrow evening, it's late here in Italy now, better go to bed, but tomorrow I will do it :D
<thomi> Letozaf: ok, it might be merged by then, so check the commit log in lp:autopilot-gtk first :)
<Letozaf> thomi, oh! sure! sorry but tomorrow got to get up early :(
<Letozaf> thomi, anyway I will let you know
<Letozaf> thomi, balloons 'night guys
<thomi> no worries
<thomi> 'night
<balloons> bah.. she's gone :-) thomi ok, I'll probably give it a whirl tomorrow during the fest
<phillw> balloons: what sort of feed back did you get from your classroom session? It looks like at least one new tester has come forward (and I got a lubuntu new comer). Well worth an hour of time if we can get a new tester each session :D
<balloons> phillw, glad to hear it
<balloons> yes there's been some folks stirring up at the start of the cycle which is great to see :-)
<balloons> chilicuil, quite the storm of new bugs your filing :-) I didn't expect so many
<chilicuil> balloons: those are the default applications just for edubuntu, expect a little bit more from lubuntu, xubuntu, kubuntu, mythbuntu and ubuntu studio =)
<balloons> chilicuil, that many really?
<balloons> do we think it would be helpful to tag them in any way? I was expecting say 10-20 apps for each flavor
<chilicuil> balloons: yep, edubuntu, mythubuntu and ubuntu studio release dvd size distributions
<balloons> a default file manager, browser, music player, video player, office suite
<balloons> chilicuil, ohh right.. my goodness
<chilicuil> balloons: if you want I can tag them
<chilicuil> currently, I'm only adding the 'todo' tag
<balloons> yea, I think making it easy to show what belong to what flavor(s) would be good
<balloons> especially since there is so many :-) So for lubuntu we'll have a bit saner number right?
<chilicuil> it sounds reasonable, yep, for lubuntu there will be less, also some applications are used in more than one flavor, so they should be less
<phillw> balloons: we did discuss, last cycle, about creating a spread sheet (table) to list applications and what flavours use them, maybe now is a good time to make a start on it?
<phillw> e.g. lubuntu uses the xcfe power-manager so any test of that as an application would be applicable to both lubuntu and xubuntu (possibly studio) etc.
<balloons> phillw, what would be the purposed of the list? information or ?
<phillw> balloons: it would allow application tests cases to be monitored accross the flavours. e.g. if a there is a test case for xcfe power-manager, either a lubuntu or xubuntu tester could run that test case and the result would be applicable to both flavours?
<balloons> phillw, I'm not sure we can paint with such broad strokes
<balloons> it would be up to the teams if that was true or not.. That said, if that was the purpose of the list, I think it's better managed inside the tool than a list
<balloons> that said, sharing tests and potentially results is a good thing.. and something we want :-)
<phillw> balloons: do not forget writing them :D
<phillw> balloons: a classic case of a bug affecting all flavours is one where a browser (chromium / fire fox) has an issue that one tester picks up, but others have not noticed :)
<phillw> s/all/multiple
<balloons> phillw, certainly any non-distro specific issue is useful :-)
<phillw> balloons: at present I get *all* chromium bugs (but that is via lp), I'm just wondering if the apps qa-tracker will alert another a flavour of a bug found on an application that they both use?
<chilicuil> that's currently not possible, AFAIK, and it's related to the discussion we had about enlighten some bugs in the qa tracker even if those bugs wasn't found particulary by following the testcases
<phillw> chilicuil: okies, thanks :)
<balloons> indeed.. I think chilicuil is right here
<balloons> we talked about filtering important stuff or showing tracker bugs, etc, etc
<balloons> Requires work on the tracker, but it is possible as long as we define what we want
<phillw> I would imagine so, but there must be an API on lp that allows me to receive (in this example)
<phillw> You received this bug notification because you are a member of Lubuntu
<phillw> Packages Team, which is subscribed to chromium-browser in Ubuntu.
<phillw> and, not really related. the bug is asking ubuntu to "stop messing about" and move from v25 to v27 which has a lot of CVE's fixed (security issues)
<phillw> the stable is actually newer than my development one!
#ubuntu-quality 2013-05-23
<pitti> Good morning
<jibel> good morning
<Noskcaj> someone make smartboyhw ping me as soon as he's online please
<DanChapman> Noskcaj, will do if i see him :)
<DanChapman> Hey peeps, im having some trouble registering libreoffice as a known application with autopilot. Anyone achieved this yet or any ideas here. Code = http://paste.ubuntu.com/5693464/ and the Traceback = http://paste.ubuntu.com/5693431/.
<balloons> DanChapman, Libreoffice is a big application. IT's probably something we need help on in order to get it working
<balloons> We may have to use something else if it never likes being introspected :-)
<balloons> IT's worth filing a bug against autopilot-gtk specifically for it
<DanChapman> ok then i was just gonna try start some basic tests on it open/close. :D Will go file one now
<balloons> DanChapman, indeed. It was part of the pains we hit last cycle.
<balloons> but pitti and crew get to help us on this stuff now :-)
<DanChapman> that should help then :)
<balloons> DanChapman, did you see Vasudevan's email about the state of the source tree? It's a good jumping off point
<DanChapman> balloons no i didnt
<DanChapman> just seeing if i got it
<balloons> have a look.. He went through and tried to run every test, and then has a few good questions about everything
<DanChapman> I didn't receive it :( Ive ran all the current tests this morning and quite a few had fails. I will probably start with them then :D
<balloons> anyways for starters let's sort of the working stuff first and get it ported to 1.3
<balloons> then I'd like to clean up anything that doesn't work and get it running, or otherwise put it into a WIP branch or something
<balloons> I'm trying to figure out what the best way to organize the tree would be
<balloons> hmm.. do we think an etherpad would help?
<DanChapman> balloons are we using this guide for porting? http://unity.ubuntu.com/autopilot/porting/porting.html
<balloons> DanChapman, yes
<balloons> DanChapman, so I think a pad could be useful today.. I've made one and we can all share notes on the autopilot stuff this way
<balloons> http://pad.ubuntu.com/CFXkuLR7Lb
<DanChapman> ok great :D
<balloons> most people won't be around till the second half of the session :-) EU evening time
<balloons> man saucy is hating on me
* balloons changed the topic of #ubuntu-quality to: Welcome to Ubuntu Quality | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam | Hackfest Today! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Hackfest/20130523 | Pad for tracking http://pad.ubuntu.com/CFXkuLR7Lb
<DanChapman> balloons do you run saucy in vm or on your hardware? I was going to install it on a seperate partition but wasnt sure if the daily image would update my machine like it does in testdrive
<balloons> DanChapman, I run it on my main box, as the default OS
<balloons> I'm almost always running the ubuntu development version, never really on a stable release except for just after it's released
<DanChapman> ill give it a whirl later on after the session :D
<balloons> :-)
<balloons> ok, brb.. hopefully saucy will like the amd open drivers
<balloons> that seems much better.. let's see if it lasts :-)
<DanChapman> :)
<balloons> ok, so DanChapman shall we work through the kinks of getting the evince testcase to 1.3?
<DanChapman> yeah sounds good to me :)
<balloons> ok, so I think we should create a branch for each 1.3 conversion
<balloons> do you know how to do that?
<balloons> I guess it's something I can do.. let's see
<DanChapman> bzr branch lp:blablabla :D
<DanChapman> i think anyway bzr still new to me have been a TFS user for few years.
<DanChapman> let me see if im getting this. So for instance with evince the emulators is deprecated so in the startUp() it will need a ProcessManager instance created?
<DanChapman> so pManager = ProcessManager.create("BAMF")??
<DanChapman> then use that to open a window?
<balloons> DanChapman, I believe that's a valid statement.. We'll find out together :-) However, we can ping the folks in #ubuntu-autopilot if we get stucl
<balloons> DanChapman, I would use launch_test_application I think
<DanChapman> ok no problem, can give it a go
<DanChapman> oops just pushed something to launchpad and didn't mean to :S
<balloons> :-)
<DanChapman> balloons, im just running to get my lil one from school then be back on it
<balloons> DanChapman, enjoy :-)
<balloons> morning SergioMeneses
<SergioMeneses> balloons, morning!
<SergioMeneses> balloons, how's everything?
<balloons> SergioMeneses, working on cleaning up the ubuntu-autopilot-tests project source tree
<balloons> Trying to figure out how to make a production branch for it
<SergioMeneses> balloons, :O awesome
<fginther> DanChapman, you want to use launch_test_application to open an application for testing
<DanChapman> fginther, thanks will do
<fginther> DanChapman, it returns a proxy object representing the root of the Gtk tree for the app (I assume you're testing evince)
<DanChapman> yeah
<fginther> DanChapman, unfortunately, my Gtk knowledge is so poor, I don't know the best or proper way to introspect the application after that :-(
<DanChapman> im getting 'no autopilot.process module' error at the moment. does it not come in python-autopilot?
<fginther> autopilot.process should be there
<fginther> for 1.23
<fginther> err for 1.3
<DanChapman> hmmmm
<DanChapman> it would appear i still have autopilot.emulators aswell need to check if i actually have 1.3
<balloons> apt-cache show python-autopilot
<DanChapman> Version: 1.2daily13.04.09-0ubuntu1
<balloons> indeed, that's still 1.2 :-)
<DanChapman> :D
<DanChapman> how do i get 1.3 then :)
<DanChapman> http://unity.ubuntu.com/autopilot/faq/faq.html says i should get it with apt-get install python-autopilot
<balloons> for raring (and apparently saucy still atm) you'll need to use the ppa
<balloons> ppa:autopilot/ppa
<DanChapman> ok thanks balloons
<balloons> sudo add-apt-repository ppa:autopilot/ppa
<balloons> sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
<DanChapman> It gave me 1.2 again so turned off universe and that sorted it :D
<balloons> o really?
<balloons> morning chilicuil
<chilicuil> hi, balloons, good morning, rdy for the hackton ? =P
<balloons> SergioMeneses, so what's on the docket for you today?
<balloons> chilicuil, indeed
<DanChapman> yeah first off it did nothing so i removed python-autopilot then tried again and it pulled 1.2 from universe. So turned it off and tried again and sure enough finally 1.3
<balloons> so DanChapman chilicuil I think I've solved our repo concerns.. or at least mine
<balloons> I'm going to rename trunk series to development. Then I'll create a new series called production which will contain only 100% working good testcases, intended to be run via jenkins
<DanChapman> sounds good to me
<balloons> finally I'm going to make an examples branch to host the example code from the tutorials.. We may or may not keep it, but I'll do it for now
<chilicuil> balloons: +1
<balloons> so those commit changes should be happening now
<balloons> chilicuil, we're using a pad to try and keep track of things :-)
<balloons> http://pad.ubuntu.com/CFXkuLR7Lb
<chilicuil> balloons: cool!, I'm there
<balloons> so basically you can see the porting efforts for each app.. I linked your branch to evince DanChapman
<DanChapman> ok cool
<SergioMeneses> balloons, I'm working with access points right now =/
<SergioMeneses> nothing about qa
<balloons> SergioMeneses, I heard about the new job, but you didn't share details on what it was
<SergioMeneses> balloons, jejeje
<balloons> either way, congrats!
<balloons> sounds like some field work.. never a bad thing
<SergioMeneses> I'm working as sysadmin ...but we've had a lot of issues about networking and servers
<balloons> ohh sysadmin.. your going to learn a lot doing that
<SergioMeneses> balloons, I hope so jaja
<balloons> so chilicuil the pad is mostly autopilot centered :-)
<SergioMeneses> I'll be like chilicuil
<chilicuil> yep, I've seen it balloons, I think I wont be able to help right now, at work I dont have a machine with unity =/, but when I come to home, I'll review what else is missing and do my part =P, in the meantime I'll review the autopilot guides =)
<chilicuil> SergioMeneses: good morning!, hope you have a nice day there =)
<balloons> chilicuil, I expect most folks will be around in about 4 hours
<balloons> so you'll be right on time ;-)
<balloons> and we'll hopefully have things sorted for them by then
<balloons> hehe
<DanChapman> balloons, is there a list of applications 'known' to autopilot without the need to register i can see
<balloons> DanChapman, http://unity.ubuntu.com/autopilot/api/process.html?highlight=known#autopilot.process.ProcessManager.KNOWN_APPS
<DanChapman> cheers :)
<balloons> have a look, there's a prod branch now :-) https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu-autopilot-tests
<balloons> howdy Vasudevan
<balloons> Vasudevan, we've got a pad going with what's going on: http://pad.ubuntu.com/CFXkuLR7Lb
<balloons> btw, I realized my conversion to 1.3 with firefox uses the self.mgr = ProcessManager.create("BAMF"), self.mgr.start_app_window("appname" mantra.. I'll have to fix that :-)
<Vasudevan> balloons, Hi, ok, will join, I sent out a summary of what I observed yesterday to the list
<balloons> Vasudevan, indeed, I included it in the doc. It was helpful
<balloons> you'll see everything when you open the pad. We're just taking conversions one by one. In addition, I've made a stable production branch to use
<Vasudevan> cant log in - this is my first time - getting error - PAD has requested some personal information. Please choose what you would like to share:
<Vasudevan> OpenID Authentication Required
<balloons> Vasudevan, are you a member of etherpad?
<balloons> you should be if your a member of the testing team
<Vasudevan> I am using my launchpad creds
<balloons> gotcha.. all the boxes checked to send the creds it wants?
<Vasudevan> dont see any checkboxes ...
<balloons> Vasudevan, lp id?
<balloons> have you used etherpad before?
<Vasudevan> no - first timer
<balloons> Vasudevan, what's your lp id? We can add you in a sec
<balloons> sorry.. that's launchpad id I'm asking for
<balloons> lp=launchpad ;-)
<Vasudevan> vasudevank2@gmail.com
<balloons> Vasudevan, look at https://launchpad.net/~
<balloons> it should say launchpad id: on that page.. that's what I need :-)
<Vasudevan> vasudevank2
<balloons> perfect, your a member now, you should have access
<Vasudevan> ok, thanks
<Vasudevan> balloons, I can see the shared workspace now, but can  not scroll up, down or switch tabs or use the keyboard - it appears to be locked
<balloons> you could try reloading your browser.. you should be all good.
<balloons> if it doesn't work I can pass the details along to you
<Vasudevan> no luck - i am running firefox 21 - does it have liking for specific browser?
<balloons> lol.. I can't imagine but anything is possible
<balloons> I have the same.. ff 21
<balloons> did you close the browser completely?
<balloons> I'm guessing it's confused by the session information from before
<balloons> fginther, so I have a question. if the app can't be introspected with autopilot and thus I'm left sending keystrokes to it instead, is using on using  self.mgr = ProcessManager.create("BAMF") the best way to do that? I know you folks in the QT world never have this scenario, but :-)
<fginther> balloons, hmm. I guess that's the only alternative. The app isn't gtk or qt?
<balloons> fginther, it's gtk, but not everything behaves so well..
<balloons> for example, try introspecting a big fat gtk app like libreoffice, thunderbird or firefox :-)
<balloons> now that pitti is here I hope we can crack some of those nuts, but we'll see
<fginther> balloons, ack, I was unable to introspect a simple python gtk app I constructed due to what look like bugs or missing features in autopilot
<balloons> fginther, exactly.. so having something to fall back on is nice
<Vasudevan> is there a way to know at run time if the target app  is of type gtk/qt etc?
<Vasudevan> i am very new to gtk/qt...
<balloons> Vasudevan, in general everything on the ubuntu desktop that we're trying to test is gtk
<Vasudevan> is that info part of introspection model or are there any external app manifests/yaml etc?
<balloons> however all of the unity next stuff, apps, desktop, etc are all moving to QT
<Vasudevan> balloons, ok,
<Vasudevan> so test cases with autopilot 1.3 would work for both types using  proxy got from launch_test_application - is that a right assumption?
<balloons> Vasudevan, I believe 1.3 is agnostic in that regards now yes
<balloons> DanChapman, how is it going?
<DanChapman> balloons yeah going good here :)
<elfy> balloons: is apport and ubuntu-bug working properly yet from saucy?
<balloons> elfy, it's not turned on
<elfy> that'd be it then
<elfy> so - create bug and add it to isoqa
<balloons> I certainly had some fun crashes :-)
<balloons> but it was all related to the beta catalyst driver it seems
<balloons> or most of it
<elfy> well one of the forum mod's is crashing with wireless - which makes it even better fun :p
<elfy> balloons: mmm - so if it's not turned on will ubuntu-bug still try and create the reports they can use in a manual bug
 * elfy really should get back up to speed properly ... 
<balloons> elfy, the upload process isn't turned on yet. They don't usually enable it till after the sync is completed I believe
<DanChapman> uii
<elfy> ubuntu-bug seems to be working here - was being lazy - sorry balloons
<balloons> DanChapman, ready to merge? :-)
<Vasudevan> when using launch_test_application, ProcessManager.register_known_application call is required?
<DanChapman> just proposed
<balloons> sweet!
<balloons> DanChapman, ohh.. this case is a bit ugly, we should clean it up :-)
<balloons> alls those sleeps :-(
<DanChapman> yeah no probs :D
<balloons> use the Eventually matcher
<balloons> Vasudevan, you have to register all unkown applicatoins
<Vasudevan> reagrdless of the way it is started..
<balloons> Vasudevan, you don't need to register it if you use launch_test_application
<balloons> you do need to register it if your using process manager (because you can't introspect the application and are forced to do it :-()
<balloons> http://unity.ubuntu.com/autopilot/api/process.html?highlight=register#autopilot.process.ProcessManager.register_known_application
<balloons> see the list ^^
<balloons> Dan I'll wait for you to clean up those sleeps before merging
<Vasudevan> ok,  yesterday I tried tweaking all these test cases to 1.3 API and was getting process-stderr: {{{Gtk-Message: Failed to load module "autopilot"}}}, RuntimeError: Unable to find Autopilot interface. etc
<DanChapman> balloons, ok on it now
<Vasudevan> using  launch_test_application
<balloons> I'm close to pushing the firefox test also
<balloons> Vasudevan, if autopilot launch APPNAME fails, then you can't introspect it
<balloons> we can then file a bug to get support for the app, but if we want to have a test for it anyway, we can use autopilot without introspection. It definitely limits what we can do, but it is possible
<Vasudevan> it was launching allright, no further activity
<balloons> if the module fails to load, you can't introspect it
<balloons> what app was it>/
<balloons> ?
<balloons> DanChapman, you can introspect evince so definitely want to convert that to using introspection
<Vasudevan> ran all the scripts - I will put one in  pastebin - I can not use the public pad
<balloons> Vasudevan, why don't you just pick one to focus on for the moment?
<DanChapman> balloons I have made a start on introspecting it already but might take me a little while :D new tool and all that :D
<balloons> firefox and evince are being worked.. grab another one that interests you
<balloons> DanChapman, certainly.. there's a little curve to it, but it's not so bad once you get it
<balloons> it's much easier actually :-)
<DanChapman> Vasudevan have you made your self a member here? https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-etherpad
<Vasudevan> here is the simple one for nautilus - http://paste.ubuntu.com/5694374/
<balloons> DanChapman, I added him so he could get in
<Vasudevan> DanChapman, yes, balloons just added me, but I am not able to add my name or use the keyboard on that link for some reason
<Vasudevan> I can see the contents
<balloons> Vasudevan, ok what's this paste?
<Vasudevan> when I run the nautilus and other scripts, I get the runtime error
<Vasudevan> balloons, it is here - http://paste.ubuntu.com/5694374/
<balloons> ok, gonna push the firefox test and start on something else
<balloons> Vasudevan, I don't see any run or error information in there
<Vasudevan> balloons are you able to run that script with out error? then it is my env.
<balloons> Vasudevan, ohh.. no, it doesn't work
<balloons> hmmm
<balloons> let's note that as a bug for the autopilot team to look at
<balloons> It *seems* like you can introspect nautilus but maybe you can't
<Vasudevan> it is pretty much the same code from the repo, havent done many changes from my side
<balloons> I don't see any introspection used in the app though
<Letozaf_> Hello everyone
<balloons> Vasudevan, the code in the repo doesn't use introspection
<balloons> instead to convert without introspection you would use:         self.manager = ProcessManager.create('BAMF')
<Vasudevan> yes - it was simply trying to create a new folder
<balloons> however that's a last resort not a first choice :-)
<Vasudevan> tried processmanager route too yesterday..
<balloons> Vasudevan, it should convert just fine like that
<balloons> I hope the different makes sense to you
<balloons> Letozaf_, hello!
<Letozaf_> balloons, hello
<balloons> we're working in this pad: http://pad.ubuntu.com/CFXkuLR7Lb
<balloons> I just finished up the firefox test, care to review it?
<balloons> https://code.launchpad.net/~nskaggs/ubuntu-autopilot-tests/firefox_autopilot_1.3/+merge/165419
<Vasudevan> I was trying to see if it creates the folder and did not on my system
<balloons> Letozaf_, then we'll strike that off.. DanChapman is working on evince atm.. he converted it, and is now working on the introspection updates for it
<Vasudevan> Letozaf_, hello
<Letozaf_> Vasudevan, hello
<Letozaf_> balloons, fine, let me just enter IRC on my notebook
<balloons> kk
<Letozaf> balloons, here I am :D
<balloons> Letozaf, ok, I set you as the reviewer on that
<balloons> then you can dive into any app you wish ;-)
<Letozaf> balloons, on the firefox test :D
<balloons> yes
<Letozaf> balloons, ok, so let's review and dive :)
<balloons> DanChapman, so how is it going before I dive in.. need help with anything?
<balloons> Vasudevan, so why don't you make a nautilus1.3 branch and do the conversion and push it
<balloons> we can test and review and if you hit a specific issue we'll be able to help you out
<balloons> I think I'm going to tackle totem
<DanChapman> im good here for now balloons
<Letozaf> balloons, I ran the firefox test I had to review on my notebook but I get a failure : http://paste.ubuntu.com/5694474/  on test_browse_planet_ubuntu
<Letozaf> balloons, I will see if I find out what's the problem
<balloons> I see the problem
<Letozaf> balloons, if you run the test alone, it does not fail
<balloons> Errore di caricamento is a connection error?
<Letozaf> balloons, yes
<Letozaf> :D
<balloons> that's the error it gave
<balloons> run it again, should be fine :-)
<Letozaf> balloons, weired now it worked :O
<balloons> hehe, yea, it failed to load planet.ubuntu.com for some reason.. anyways, excellent
<Letozaf> balloons, :D
<Letozaf> balloons, so do you want me to approve the test or just add a comment  and you approve it ?
<balloons> fginther, heh, I just noticed your paste.. you've got a couple slick utility functions.. _walk and _find :-)
<balloons> Letozaf, approve it if everything is good
<balloons> I'll do the merge work
<Letozaf> balloons, ok
<balloons> for everyone else: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5693940/
<balloons> ^^ the _find function in there can work around the fact autopilot vis doesn't do so a thing
<fginther> balloons, thanks. It was just a quick solution to the problem of finding the object handles.
<Vasudevan> balloons, do I need to generate ssh key to push to launchpad?
<balloons> Vasudevan, yes.. Let me give you a nice link showing you how to do it
<balloons> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/ContributingTestcases/Launchpad
<balloons> Vasudevan, go through that page and you should be all setup
<balloons> fginther, weird.. I'm having trouble with the _walk function though
<Letozaf> balloons, I aproved it
<balloons> the name argument on             self._walk(c, name).. where does that come from?
<fginther> balloons, oops.  s/name/text/
<fginther> balloons, I should paste a new one
<balloons> fginther, lol.. makes more sense.. I was thinking you were getting the name of the property value or something
<balloons> :-)
<fginther> balloons, it does have a problem traversing the entire object tree. It hits what looks like a dbus timeout if it has to search through a large number of nodes
<Letozaf> balloons, are you guys working on  lp:ubuntu-autopilot-tests or lp:~nskaggs/ubuntu-autopilot-tests/firefox_autopilot_1.3
<Letozaf> balloons, well without the firefox...
<balloons> Letozaf, basically we're making a branch for the 1.3 conversions
<balloons> you can see them in the pad
<balloons> branch lp:ubuntu-autopilot-tests, make your changes, then push to your new branch
<balloons> and merge proposal once ready
<Letozaf> balloons, witch pad
<balloons> Letozaf, http://pad.ubuntu.com/CFXkuLR7Lb
<Letozaf> balloons, oh! thanks :)
<Vasudevan> balloons, bzr whoami is throwing error
<balloons> Vasudevan, what's it say?
<balloons> Letozaf, no worries :-) hehe
<Vasudevan> just uploaded public key
<Vasudevan> bzr: ERROR: Unable to determine your name.
<balloons> Vasudevan, bzr launchpad-login vasudevank2
<balloons> then bzr whoami
<Vasudevan> yes that went through
<Vasudevan> when I do whoami, it shows error
<elfy> whoami fails for me as well balloons - in fact it gives an error
<elfy> tells you to set it up
<elfy> bzr whoami "Your Name <name@example.com>"
<balloons> you ssh key is not uploaded: vasudevank2
<balloons> https://launchpad.net/~vasudevank2
<balloons> ohh wait.. I lied, I see it :-)
<balloons> so what happens when you do bzr launchpad-login?
<balloons> elfy or Vasudevan ^^
<Vasudevan> no error
<Vasudevan> no other msgs
<elfy> logs in fine balloons
<balloons> does this help? http://askubuntu.com/questions/152239/how-do-i-fix-bzr-error-unable-to-determine-your-name
<elfy> I assume anyway
<balloons> namely, bzr whoami "Jorge Castro <jorge@ubuntu.com>"
<elfy> balloons: but it's obviously ok as it let me get the testcases again
<balloons> elfy, the authentication is commit back :-)(
<balloons> you don't have to login to grab stuff
<elfy> well it failed the other day
<balloons> ahh
<balloons> no fun.. try the namely, bzr whoami "Jorge Castro <jorge@ubuntu.com" command and see if that works :-)
<balloons> but don't pretend to be jorge
<balloons> haha
<elfy> that works
<balloons> awesome.. so I guess update that wiki page to get it right
<elfy> I'll do it
<balloons> ty elfy :-)
<balloons> Vasudevan,  everything working for you now also?
<balloons> Letozaf, how's gedit treating you? :-)
<elfy> balloons: all done
<Letozaf> balloons, :( mmm 4 failures ...
 * Letozaf is trying to solve them
<balloons> elfy, perfect.. your all set now for contributing some tests :-)
<elfy> well that was the general idea - I'll be playing with some useful testcase over the weekend - I sort of have the syntax sorted in my head :p
<Vasudevan> balloons, bzr branch lp:ubuntu-autopilot-tests1.3     update nautilus  and bzr push lp:ubuntu-autopilot-tests1.3 ?
<balloons> Vasudevan, yes so  bzr branch lp:ubuntu-autopilot-tests
<elfy> balloons: you know the sort of thing - "Does sudo apt-get install xubuntu-desktop" work ... :p
<balloons> you'll get all the tests. Then do a bzr push to make your own branch for working on things
<balloons> bzr push  bzr branch lp:~LPNAME/ubuntu-autopilot-tests/YOURBRANCHNAME
<elfy> so I could do the same for testcases I assume
<balloons> so for nautilus, something like bzr push lp:~nskaggs/ubuntu-autopilot-tests/nautilus_autopilot_1.3
<balloons> then hack away and do bzr commit locally as much as you'd like
<balloons> when your all done you do a bzr push, and that pushes your code back to launchpad
<balloons> it'll show up on this page: https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu-autopilot-tests
<balloons> along with everyone else's stuff and you can then propose a merge back
<Letozaf> balloons, I was trying to find the commit log of autopilot-gtk I wanted to see if the fix for the problem I was having yesterday has been merged
<balloons> Letozaf, ahh yes
<Letozaf> balloons, where is it :p
<balloons> actually I found a bug today in autopilot-gtk
<Letozaf> balloons, oh! so you mean introspection is not working ?
<balloons> Letozaf, can you link the bug
<balloons> no it was something really tiny
<balloons> an obscure function in autopilotprocessinwdow didn't work
<Letozaf> balloons, which bug
<balloons> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~autopilot/autopilot/trunk/view/head:/debian/changelog
<balloons> Letozaf, I haven't filed the one I found. No introspection is working.. But some apps it doesn't work on as always, that's all
<balloons> Letozaf, I meant the bug you found that was causing you issues
<Letozaf> balloons, oh! but thomi yesterday was saying that there's  already a patch to fix it, I mean the problem I was having
<balloons> ahh.. so we don't know the bug persay
<balloons> that's fine
<Letozaf> balloons,yes
<Letozaf> balloons, :(
<Letozaf> balloons, thomi also said that it should have been merged the fix I mean by now
<balloons> ahh.. then feel confident and move forward :-)
<balloons> this totem case is quite a mess, heh
<Letozaf> balloons, I think it could not be completed, do not remember why :(
<Letozaf> balloons, a lot of problems
<balloons> no worries.. we'll fix them up
<elfy> balloons: cool - I found the list of todo testcases - loads of xubuntu ones to do then :)
<balloons> elfy, indeed
<elfy> :)
<thomi> morning
<balloons> morning thomi
<balloons> so heh.. hope you've had your tea if you drink it
<thomi> I notice an awful lot of autopilot chatter here - any questions for me?
<balloons> I'm wondering if you could confirm a potential bug I found in autopilot-gtk. The autopilot.process.Window.geometry property fails with an error
<Vasudevan> balloons, done - bzr push lp:~vasudevank2/ubuntu-autopilot-tests/nautilus_autopilot_1.3
<balloons> just try calling it.. I can probably whip something up for it
<balloons> Vasudevan, excellent.. does it work now with ap1.3?
<balloons> thomi that bug chatter above was for you, but I'm guessing you'll want the code example, which might be a bit
<Letozaf> thomi, you remember yesteday's error: self.assertThat(btn, NotEquals(None)) giving  MismatchError: None == None it's still there, is the fix  you were talking about merged ?
<Vasudevan> I changed to use launch_test_application  and attempts to create a folder- it just launches and stays put;
<balloons> Vasudevan, ahh ok, so the conversion is done, but the test still needs work
<balloons> so keep going at it ;-)
<thomi> Letozaf: no, not yet
<Letozaf> thomi, ah! ok
<thomi> Letozaf: I'll hassle alesage to get it merged
<Letozaf> thomi, thanks :)
<Vasudevan> balloons - yes, I am getting the errors that I reported yesterday after conversion
<balloons> Vasudevan, ok, if your unable to figure out how to fix them, let us know
<balloons> we can branch your code and run it too to help if needed
<Vasudevan> I will try to see if it runs on the latest image instead of quantal if it makes a difference
<thomi> ahh, I just remembered that alesage is actually on holiday
<thomi> so I'll add that to my TODO list
<balloons> <3
<Letozaf> thomi, ok I
<balloons> thomi, so I have a question. I think the self.assertProperty feature can let me know things about my app's window, including things like window count and child windows right? How can I know when a child window has spawned, say the 'open' dialog, etc?
<thomi> balloons: you don't need assertProperty for that - just do the select_single to find the open dialog box object, and then do soemthing like:
<balloons> in general, working with children windows was quite difficult before
<thomi> self.assertThat(open_dlg.visible, Eventually(Equals(True)))
<balloons> thomi, yea, the sadness is there often isn't a visible object for it.. or I'm crazy :-)
<balloons> I'll try that right now.. thank
<Vasudevan> balloons, this is the error  since yesterday for nautilus  and gedit also - http://paste.ubuntu.com/5694738/
<Letozaf> balloons, I'm trying terminal test now, but I get this http://paste.ubuntu.com/5694745/ on test_save_a_file
<balloons> Vasudevan, well one issue here is that your running on quantal right? you really should develop this on raring or saucy
<Letozaf> balloons, that ""Unable to find Autopilot interface." thought I read something somewhere about it...
<balloons> can you use a vm if you don't want to upgrade?
<Vasudevan> balloons, ok then I will try that option
<balloons> Vasudevan, it would be best to eliminate any issues with quantal
<balloons> save some heartache
<Vasudevan> yes - i can use a vm -  have just one laptop
<balloons> gotcha. yep, vm is perfect
<balloons> then you don't even have to worry about the test running wild ;-)
<balloons> ok so Letozaf yours is weird.. it loads the interface, then complains it can't find it?
<Letozaf> balloons,  :(
<Vasudevan> balloons, can you point me to the location of the latest img for 13.10 cycle? i will bookmark it
<Letozaf> balloons, look like
<Letozaf> balloons, sorry looks like
<balloons> Vasudevan, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/
<Vasudevan> ok, thanks
<balloons> yw
<asac> gema: nice ... i see a test passed on grouper smoke device ... does it mean there is breakthrough soon :)?
<balloons> Letozaf, so how are you doing?
<Letozaf> balloons, for gedit I will wait for the fix to be merged, for terminal still stuck on the error I pasted
<balloons> ohh right.. let's file a bug for that error
<balloons> and keep moving :-)
<Letozaf> balloons, the bug are you going to or do I have to report it ?
<balloons> Letozaf, if you would, that'd be great
<Letozaf> balloons, ok
<balloons> just put your paste output in there
<balloons> tag it with autopilot1.3
<balloons> so we can track all the blocking bugs
<Letozaf> balloons, ok thanks
<balloons> ty! :-)
<Letozaf> balloons, yw
<balloons> I'm trying thomi's suggestion for finding the child window, but it's not working.. I'm trying to search, but it's timing out I think. Eitheir way it's not finding the window
<balloons> thomi, if I had to be hacky, how could I track window counts? got a better alternate approach?
<thomi> balloons: just in a call, one moment
<elfy> balloons: do you know what's happening about the schedule being redone to suit what we're going to be doing for saucy - I'm sure I heard someone in vuds saying that
<balloons> elfy, no.. I didn't see any changes as of yet
<balloons> but I too heard they were going to clean it up.. I was in that session
<elfy> k - didn't know if you had inside track - I'm subscribed to the wiki - makes it hard to plan if you're actually going to be doing the opt-in things :)
<Letozaf> balloons, Bug #1183536
<ubot5> bug 1183536 in Autopilot " Autopilot 1.3 raise RuntimeError("Unable to find Autopilot interface.")" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1183536
<thomi> balloons: this is for a gtk app?
<balloons> thomi, of course :)
<thomi> balloons: bah :(
<thomi> balloons: you'll need the branch that fixes ap-gtk
<balloons> there's a fix for the issue.. as in I should be able to see the window?
<thomi> balloons: My guess is that you're hitting the bug in ap-gtk where the selection fails
<thomi> so you ask for a window that has XYZ properties, and autopilot-gtk refuses to give you anything
<thomi> however, that bug is fixed, and it's first up on my list to do to land it (after getting a coffee)
<balloons> thomi, well, it's hard to know exactly for sure. I do a selection and it fails. But I also can't find what I'm selecting in the list anywhere. fginther showed off a little _walk function to traverse the property tree.. It doesn't find it either, but it has issues with going to deep into the tree before blowing up :-)
<thomi> balloons: can you grab the branch with the fix and build it & install?
<balloons> ok, well I'll just finish the test assuming it will work and commit it to the branch for now
<thomi> balloons: and then re-try?
<balloons> thomi, I'm about tapped out for today.. I can wait if it's coming down the pipe :-)
<thomi> ok
<balloons> you don't need to feel any pressure before getting your coffee in :-)
<thomi> in that case...
 * thomi -> coffee
<balloons> Letozaf, so I'm going to commit this and have a look at what's still out there
<Letozaf> balloons, I am trying screenshot now, let's see what happens
<Letozaf> balloons, 3 failures
<Letozaf> balloons, in screenshot I get this error : AttributeError: Class 'Root' has no attribute 'set_focus'.
<Letozaf> balloons, but with autopilot1.2 it worked, could it be the same problem we are waiting the fix for ?
<balloons> Letozaf, you can remove the focus stuff
<balloons> it was for non-introspection
<balloons> your setup can just have         super(GtkToolbarTests, self).setUp()
<balloons>         self.app = self.launch_test_application('totem')
<balloons> those couple lines :-)
<Letozaf> balloons, I already did it, but then without the focus stuff I get a OSError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/tmp/shot2.png'
<balloons> push it up to your branch
<balloons> i'll pull it and look
<Letozaf> balloons, ok
<balloons> it's probably a timing issue
<balloons> it was so hacky.. we need to be able to detect child windows
<Letozaf> balloons, lp:~carla-sella/ubuntu-autopilot-tests/screenshot-ap13
<balloons> Letozaf, I think I've got to tap out
<balloons> :-)
<balloons> it's late for you also
<balloons> we'll keep at this tomorrow and next week
<balloons> It's a long weekend here in the US
<Letozaf> balloons, ok, but what was the problem ?
<balloons> ahh.. let me confirm, one moment
<balloons> ahh.. yea, timing
<Letozaf> balloons, oh fine!
<balloons> should be trivial to fix once we can detect child windows
<balloons> it's basically all done, which is nice
<Letozaf> balloons, good :)
<balloons> you can drop this line at the top now too: ProcessManager.register_known_application("Screenshot", "gnome-screenshot.desktop", "gnome-screenshot")
<balloons> it's no longer needed
<balloons> alright with that, I'm going for good
<balloons> enjoy your night Letozaf
<Letozaf> balloons, ok thanks  have a nice long weekend :)
<Vasudevan> bye balloons, will try these on the latest build and let you know...
<kotux> Hello, I didn't get to attend today's Hackfest.  What has been accomplished today and what needs work?
<Noskcaj> kotux, use the irc logs. i'll try and find them
<Noskcaj> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/05/23/%23ubuntu-quality.html
#ubuntu-quality 2013-05-24
<kotux> Cool, thanks Noskcaj
<sak> How did the hackfest go today? I was unable to attend.
 * kotux wants to know too.
<balloons> hey sak and kotux
<balloons> not too bad.. you can see what happened here: http://pad.ubuntu.com/CFXkuLR7Lb
<sak> hey balloons
<sak> Thanks
<balloons> in addition feel free to pick any of the unclaimed tests and make a branch for it and convert it :-)
<balloons> I'm relaxing my brain after today.. we cleaned up the repo, and we have a production branch that's stable now
<sak> In addition to contributing our own testcases
<sak> ?
<balloons> lol.. that's me just being tired
<balloons> just wanted you to know about the pad
<sak> I am looking over the pad now.
<sak> I thought nautilus was rewritten to a new file manager
<sak> Just assigned myself to remmina and vino
<pitti> Good morning
<sak> morning and good night LOL
<jibel> good morning
<pitti> bonjour Monsieur Lallement
<jibel> Guten Morgen Herr Pitt :)
<gema> asac: it means we are working on it, but yeah, we are starting to run something after installing :D
<Noskcaj> gema, wrong channel?
<gema> Noskcaj: nope, asac said something to me yesterday night, I was answering now :D
<gema> Noskcaj: he should be able to figure it out!
<Noskcaj> he's also not online
<gema> Noskcaj: he is in the channel
<Noskcaj> true
<Noskcaj> Someone find howard, i'm slightly concerned, but mostly annoyed because he has testdrive stuff to do
<asac> gema: thx :)
* balloons changed the topic of #ubuntu-quality to: Welcome to Ubuntu Quality | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam | Next Hackfest is June 4th! Hackfest from May 23rd: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Hackfest/20130523 http://pad.ubuntu.com/CFXkuLR7Lb
<fginther> pitti, Hi, I'm working on an autopilot tutorial for gtk apps. Do you happen know of any good test examples?
<balloons> fginther, I'm not pitti but I'm happy to hear your writing a tutorial. If I can help in anyway, let me know ;-)
<fginther> balloons, thanks. I'm looking for tests that use the autopilot API most efficiently. I was planning on looking at the tests you guys worked on yesterday, but thought that Pitti had a lot of experience here as well
<fginther> I don't want to document bad practices in a tutorial :-)
<balloons> fginther, heh, much of the stuff we wrote highlights trying to hack around issues with autopilot-gtk ;-(
<fginther> which is what would happen if I used my own tests as an example
<fginther> yeah, autopilot-gtk needs some love
<phillw> balloons: hiyas, sorry I was not about much yesterday, one of the F/OSS virtual machine's was hit with a DDoS. I spent some time trying to find out which, which was my tor relay ipV4; but we have no idea why. Maybe just what is called a 'drive by shooting'. It did however reduce the bandwidth available to all as to cause the znc server instance to fail. It appears fatally as TheLordOfTime of time has not been able to get it re-started.... My th
<balloons> I saw the znc dc's :-)
<phillw> balloons: the only thought that the tor people had was if that relay had an error in the config file that throttles the amount of connections it will take. The logs show that it had no increase in traffic, so it was a DDoS. As to if it was against the tor relay or some dim-wit setting up a random DDoS to check if it worked, or an equally dim-wit typing in the wrong ipV4 address to attack, we will never know :(
 * TheLordOfTime pokes phillw
<TheLordOfTime> "restarted" isn't the issue
<TheLordOfTime> "fatal"?  not really
<TheLordOfTime> "problem with secure connectivity, SSL, SSH, etc"? yes.
<TheLordOfTime> afaik non-SSL works, but that's, you know, not really that "useful" per se.
<TheLordOfTime> since lots of people like SSL
 * TheLordOfTime goes back to digging in nginx to fix a security bug
 * phillw would like to correct himself for the record " TheLordOfTime  has not been able to get SSL / SSH to run stably. "
<asomething> anyone around that can help me make sense of an autopkgtest result?
<asomething> https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Saucy/view/AutoPkgTest/job/saucy-adt-trac-bzr/ARCH=i386,label=adt/1/
<asomething> The test "fails" but the actually test suite seems to pass AFAICT
<asomething> hmm... it seems that maybe nosetests outputs even successful test results to stderr. I guess thats why the autopkgtests "fail"
<asomething> I guess that's it... from 'man nosetests': "Log debug messages to this file (default: sys.stderr)"
<balloons> asomething, heh :-)
<jtaylor> why is pyzmq autopkgtest failing in saucy jenkins?
<jtaylor> the summary says all test passed
<jtaylor> log is fine too
<jtaylor> https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Saucy/view/AutoPkgTest/job/saucy-adt-pyzmq/
#ubuntu-quality 2013-05-25
<DanChapman> hey folks :D
<elfy> hi DanChapman
<DanChapman> afternoon elfy, how is things going?
<elfy> getting my head around writing testcases and then wondering about all the bzr stuff :)
 * elfy hates trying to follow videos ... 
<DanChapman> Yeah i been battling with autopilot have finally got it now i think :D
<DanChapman> i am terrible for following videos aswell
<DanChapman> elfy, what testcase you working on?
<DanChapman> I98
<DanChapman> balloons: ping
<elfy> DanChapman: xchat
<DanChapman> elfy: would you mind reviewing my evince test?
<elfy> I can of course
<DanChapman> is your launchpad nick elfy?
<elfy> I'd get you to review the xchat one - but bzr is completely new to me and I went out and haven't got around to sowrking out what I need to do
<elfy> DanChapman: yep
<DanChapman> i can help you with bzr,
<elfy> probably :D
<elfy> I'm registered and all that - but how I go from having a txt file of the xchat test on my machine to somewhere in bzr I have absolutely no idea :)
<DanChapman> After each change you want to submit first run 'bzr commit' and leave a note in the commit file thats come up in term.
<elfy> this is a completely new testcase afaik
<DanChapman> manual or autopilot?
<elfy> manual
<elfy> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-tests/+bug/1183517
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1183517 in Ubuntu Manual Tests "Test Needed: Xchat" [Undecided,New]
<DanChapman> ah i see right did you pull down a branch from  bzr branch lp:ubuntu-manual-tests
<elfy> yea did that - I assume anyway, I've got that folder in my home now at least
<DanChapman> have you created a file in the packages folder called xchat?
<elfy> and the file I created is in that folder - /ubuntu-manual-tests/testcases/packages/
<elfy> yea
<DanChapman> cool so in term you just go to the packages directory and run bzr commit and add a note to sya what it is then to push it up...... hang on ill get you the link
<elfy> I'm guessing I need to so something like bzr push lp:~elfy/ubuntu-manual-tests/googoddidIdothattright :p
<DanChapman> bzr push lp:~dpniel/ubuntu-manual-tests/xchat but replace 'dpniel' with your luanchpad id
<DanChapman> yeah so after ub-man-tests/<whatever_you_want_to_call_your_branch_here>
<elfy> ERROR: Parent directory of lp~elfy/ubuntu-manual-tests/xchat
<elfy> is that because I've not got a branch of my own yet?
<elfy> DanChapman: ^^
<DanChapman> has it worked elfy?
<elfy> brb
<elfy> no - got error ^^
<elfy> if I did bzr push lp:~elfy/ubuntu-manual-tests/xubuntu would that create a place in my LP page for me to push things like xchat to ?
<elfy> some of us went to school and had to use slide rules and logtables as calculators were still a gleam in someone's eye :D
<elfy> hi SergioMeneses
<DanChapman> that would create a xubuntu branch on manualtests for you
<DanChapman> I had to use logtables last year as part of my uni course, i did not enjoy that :)
<elfy> I'm trying to follow https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/ContributingTestcases/Manual#Finish_Formatting_and_verify_your_test
<SergioMeneses> elfy, morning!
<elfy> no I'm not I'm trying to follow https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/ContributingTestcases/Manual#Contribute_your_new_test.21 lol
<elfy> bah
<SergioMeneses> DanChapman, and what is logtables?
<elfy> wiring up a jumbo jet is easy compared to this
<elfy> SergioMeneses: http://www.sliderules.info/a-to-z/log-tables.htm
<DanChapman> Yeah that wiki page is correct elfy, is it still not working?
<elfy> I don't know - not done it yet - was asking if that was right :)
<elfy> what is YOURBRANCHNAME ?
<SergioMeneses> elfy, oh
<elfy> somewhere that I put things that I can then push to the main thing?
<DanChapman> YOURBRANCHNAME can be anything you want so xChat or Xubuntu or MyBranch are all valid and it creates a branch with that name
<elfy> because quite frankly all the wiki pages are as clear as mud if you don't actually know what these things are
<elfy> woohoo
<elfy> https://code.launchpad.net/~elfy/ubuntu-manual-tests/xchat
<DanChapman> :D all good elfy?
<elfy> so you'd do that for each test you wrote then?
<elfy> no - that doesn't make any sense to me at all
<DanChapman> Yeah for each new one. When you propose for it to be merged and it is accepted that branch gets merged into the main branch and basically dissapears.
<elfy> so how do I get the xchat testcase that I did there
<elfy> this is all I am afraid as clear as mud
<DanChapman> did you run bzr commit before pushing it?
<elfy> why would I?
<elfy> I have been trying to say this is all new ;)
<elfy> but thanks for trying to help DanChapman :)
<DanChapman> Thats fine elfy :) it commits the changes you have made (creating the xchat test) to bzr locally. Then when you push up to your branch it pushes the commits you made locally
<DanChapman> so when in the packages directory in terminal just type bzr commit and nano pops up asking for a comment
<DanChapman> Type first commit or something
<elfy> do I have to bzr add ?
<DanChapman> Then use your bzr push command to push it up to launchpad
<DanChapman> just commit is enough
<elfy> thatgot me an error
<DanChapman> saying?
<elfy> to bzr add - which I did - then commit got Committed revision 107.
<elfy> so now I push?
<DanChapman> yes push now :D
<elfy> yep - that worked :)
<elfy> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~elfy/ubuntu-manual-tests/xchat/revision/107#testcases/packages/xchat
<DanChapman> it should now be in launchpad in your branch's packages folder
<DanChapman> thats it :D
<DanChapman> Just remeber first run bzr commit before you push
<elfy> I'll copy all the stuff from here an terminal and sort it out so it makes some sense to me :)
<elfy> why does it have no number in the packages list - or does that get done when it's merged/accepted or whatever?
<elfy> and how does it get put against the bug saying it needs to be done?
<DanChapman> go to your branch code page
<elfy> yep
<DanChapman> it should say link bug report half way down'ish
<elfy> yep - put the whole url or just the number?
<DanChapman> just the number with the # i think
<DanChapman> The number gets assigned once merged btw
<elfy> ok
<elfy> mmm - so I put things in the box and nothing to say yes
<elfy> bug_id: got 'unicode', expected int: u'#1183517' some sort of error
<elfy> done it
<elfy> DanChapman: thank you for your help :)
<DanChapman> No problem at all :D
<elfy> I did my apprenticeship as an aircraft electrician and could wire up a plane for you - this was all getting me scratching my head :)
<DanChapman> I was the same once :)
<elfy> :)
<elfy> time to put the kettle on and do myself some crib notes :)
<elfy> DanChapman: so I got those mails from you re evince
<elfy> but I'm all a bit at sea right at the moment
<elfy> DanChapman: one last question - what happens to this now that I've done what I've done
<DanChapman> If its finished then on you branch code page click on propose for merging and add a little note.
<elfy> well I'd say someone needs to check it :)
<elfy> or do you propose for merging so that someone knows it needs to be looked at?
<DanChapman> When you propose you can request certain people to review it by putting in their launchpad nick.
<elfy> ok - would you?
<DanChapman> Yeah no probs my nicks dpniel
<elfy> leave target branch as defaulted I assume
<elfy> ok - done that - thanks very much for the patience and help DanChapman :)
<elfy> DanChapman: I didn't realise the one you asked me to look at was an autopilot test - I have no idea even what I'm looking at just now
<DanChapman> No worries elfy, i should have asked. Im just taking a look at yours now. I will remove you from review :)
<elfy> ok :)
<phillw> elfy: I will be following your learning curve next week. I couldn't attend the last hackfest as I had had a DDoS attack and was busy cleaning up after it :(
<elfy> phillw: that was autopilot stuff I thought?
<elfy> which is beyond me just now
<phillw> it was test case hacking :)
<elfy> oh right
<elfy> well DanChapman helped me hack my way through it
<elfy> I am writing some crib notes - on paper, with pen - relaxing :D
<phillw> I've still to watch the introduction to bzr one :) Heck, RL and lubuntu seem to conspire against me at times :D
<elfy> :)
<DanChapman> elfy, i left a comment on your testcase :D
<elfy> DanChapman: thanks :)
<elfy> when I can work out how to actually see it I'll look lol
<elfy> I can see the e-mail with the comments however, yea - wasn't sure how detailed to make it - if this is a test for when it's installed or from a livecd etc was my first thoughts
<DanChapman> you should have got an email aswell with it in :D
<elfy> I got the mail - just having trouble finding the comments in launchpad :)
<DanChapman> https://code.launchpad.net/~elfy/ubuntu-manual-tests/xchat/+merge/165749
<DanChapman> Take a look at the nautilus testcase i think it has a good combination of expected results and questions for reference
<elfy> DanChapman: thanks - the question is how far to go, for instance "Like entering nicknames etc on the network list window." but make sure that any nick you enter isn't used by someone else as you'll end up being called guest95637
<elfy> ok - thanks for the tip - I sort of followed one of the other xubuntu type ones
<DanChapman> Just go as far as you think appropriate elfy :D. I think the thing with all testcases is they are a work in progress
<elfy> not sure I'd worry too much about servers that aren't there is appropriate given that ubuntu servers and freenode are
<elfy> ok - I'll work on it and then find out the next step :)
<elfy> DanChapman: but I understand what you're saying :)
<DanChapman> :D
<phillw> DanChapman: as part of my TODO list, I'm going to create a server that can support the wonderful things like iSCSI / samba / NFS etc.
<DanChapman> phillw, nice... what will that be for?
<TheLordOfTime> proof-of-concept?
<TheLordOfTime> :P
<phillw> DanChapman: I was tasked with making the test cases for server more 'human'. to get the test cases to be able to be run for those more esoteric tests, I have realised that creating a VM with  a unique ipV4 is the best (easiest) way forward.
<DanChapman> Oooo sounds interesting, I hate setting up servers! be nice to have an easy way to test :D
<phillw> Hi TheLordOfTime how goes your day?... guess which VM address will be used :P
<TheLordOfTime> :P
<TheLordOfTime> phillw:  my day is going bleh
<TheLordOfTime> because undisclosed reasons
<phillw> TheLordOfTime: I do still have one ipV4 left, should you decide to re-install. You are not being evicted, I promise :)
 * TheLordOfTime yawns
 * TheLordOfTime isn't focusing on VMs atm
<TheLordOfTime> ... i am however absolutely in need of coffee... back in a few.
<phillw> TheLordOfTime:  I'm still somewhat perplexed as to what causes that particular VM to "crash and burn".....  As I mentioned last night.
<DanChapman> phillw, i have made a start on doing this testcase https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-tests/+bug/1172452 would it not possibly be better to incorporate it into your suite of tests?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1172452 in Ubuntu Manual Tests "Testcase Needed: Server Upgrade Test" [High,In progress]
<phillw> We've even tried moving the ipV4.
<phillw> DanChapman: thanks, whilst not overly busy on the test case re-writing, I do think that having a little server to be able to test on will reduce the fear and increase the number of people willing to test.
<phillw> DanChapman: as it is VM, if everything goes horribly wrong... It just gets re-installed :)
<DanChapman> I agree, i remember the first time i installed ubuntu server, id only ever used windows server before that and had a horrible surprise when it had finished installing. I was like 'whats happened to the screen!' :P
<DanChapman> are you planning to run it through testdrive?
<phillw> DanChapman: it is a server, I was un aware that testdrive handles servers? But, it will have 'X' installed so, if you have a decent speed internet link you could throw it a desktop system.
<phillw> DanChapman: how many desktop people need iSCSI ?
<DanChapman> Im not sure about testdrive, just id seen you can download/test servers on there. Regarding how many people need iSCSI i have no idea i'm afraid, its not something i've dealt with directly before
<phillw> DanChapman: IIRC, the testdrive people have been working on using either VBox or KVM to use testdrive for desktop testing. I'm not sure about equipping it to handle server test cases as they need fuller areas such as listed at http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/243/builds/42960/testcases
<njin> bug 1184066
<ubot5> bug 1184066 in casper (Ubuntu) "Cannot boot live session [missed udevadm and udevd]" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1184066
#ubuntu-quality 2013-05-26
<samgabbay> guys when i install the fglrx i cant see the unity launcher at all
<elfy> afternoon all - so a quick question
<elfy> if I'd pushed a manual testcase yesterday and it needed work doing to it - which I've now done and pushed
<elfy> should I resubmit proposal OR reqeust another review ?
<elfy> SergioMeneses: ping
<elfy> phillw: you might well be able to help me here :)
<elfy> if I'd pushed a manual testcase yesterday and it needed work doing to it - which I've now done and pushed
<elfy> should I resubmit proposal OR reqeust another review ?
<phillw> I'm not familiar enough with the system. I missed the classroom session :(
<elfy> k
<elfy> I shall wait :)
<elfy> thanks - though you'll be pleased to know I have managed to do one push it, fiddle and push it again - so I can help with that for you - just :D
<phillw> I'm going to read the logs from the hackfest tomorrow :)
<elfy> oh right - maybe I can find the answer there - point me at logs ?
<phillw> they are in the daily logs via log-bot
<elfy> I don't even know when or where they were - missed all of that
<phillw> 23rd 12:00 - 20:00 UTC on this channel.
<elfy> ok - ta
<elfy> no help lol
<elfy> not seeing review in there in the right context lol
<elfy> phillw: got that all sorted out :)
<elfy> DanChapman: thanks :)
<elfy> is there anyone about who can answer a simple autopilot question - will it work with Xubuntu, trying to run autopilot vis and just get a completely empty box
<DanChapman> elfy did you launch an application with autopilot?
<DanChapman> autopilot launch gedit
<elfy> tried that
<elfy> autopilot launch mousepad
<elfy> mousepad opened
<DanChapman> did it say gtk autopilot interface loaded in the terminal?
<elfy> Gtk-Message: Failed to load module "autopilot"
<elfy> Error: Unable to find Autopilot interface.
<elfy> though mousepad is still there open :)
<DanChapman> Yeah it still launch's it but autopilot can't introspect it. try autopilot launch evince
<elfy> Gtk-Message: Failed to load module "autopilot"
<DanChapman> im not familiar with what apps are on xubuntu. Looks as though it not working for you :(
<elfy> mmm
<elfy> ok - thanks - I'll dig deeper
<elfy> I'll have a go in raring as well
<elfy> looks to have fallen over at the first hurdle at the moment though :)
<elfy> DanChapman: while you're about - 1 quick question - now that I've done what I've done with the xchat testcase and you approved it - is that all I need to do?
<TheDrums> Bug #1169593 says -i may help in a few cases.
<ubot5> bug 1169593 in Autopilot "Some applications are not introspectable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1169593
<DanChapman> elfy, yeah its still to be review by admins before being merged, which you will most probably hear in the next couple of days
<elfy> thanks DanChapman
<elfy> TheDrums: that's not doing the trick
<TheDrums> Eh, was worth a shot.
<elfy> yep
<elfy> not given up yet though :)
<TheDrums> (Said someone that's never looked at autopilot)
<elfy> well neither had I till 20 minutes ago :)
<knome> TheDrums, you binge drinking again?
<TheDrums> knome: Only one cup of coffee, so sadly not.
<knome> :)
<DanChapman> mmmmm coffee
<knome> have enough today
<knome> *have had
<TheDrums> Putting the kettle on for more.
<Skini151> hi,i have a question// i want to make a test for calibre and is no one assigned to it, how can i assign myself to it and on what Ubuntu distro to test on?
<Skini151> see this page for more info bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-tests/+bug/1182985
#ubuntu-quality 2014-05-19
<pitti> Good morning
<dkessel> good morning pitti :)
<jpd2> Anyone running qemu-system-ppc  guests ?
#ubuntu-quality 2014-05-20
<pitti> Good morning
<knome> balloons, allÃ¶!
<elfy> balloons has been hiding knome
<elfy> #scaredycat
<balloons> knome, elfy, allÃ¶!
<balloons> I'm in a friendly timezone for you two!
<knome> aha
<knome> london?
<balloons> malta.. central europe summer time
<knome> woot
<knome> holiday?
<knome> or a weird canonical sprint?
<balloons> knome, work.. sprinting indeed.
<knome> uh oh
<knome> what are you sprinting for?
<balloons> knome, we have several core app devs here, and in general, trying to catch up on things that need done
<balloons> and tryisng to digest the bacon change
<balloons> it's been nice to meet some of the community folks; I hope we can do similar things going forward
<balloons> since it's summertime, I'd be happy to visit northern europe :-)
<knome> balloons, welcome!
<knome> it's 23Â°C here today
<balloons> knome, warmer than here
 * balloons thinks malta is cold
<knome> heh
 * knome thinks finland is too warm today
<elfy> balloons: conundrum for you to solve - I've been to Malta once, but left there twice
#ubuntu-quality 2014-05-21
<balloons> elfy, a most curious notion. i love riddles. Let's see
<balloons> Perhaps you were born there?
<elfy> that took you that long?
<elfy> :p
<elfy> balloons: you having fun on your jolly?
<elfy> have you been to the only sandy beach?
<balloons> elfy, couldn't sleep all night waiting for your response
<balloons> elfy, I have not. It's on the north end of the island I here?
<elfy> from memory it is - sort of north and round the corner
<elfy> and have you been on one of the mad buses ?
<balloons> I've seen pics of the old buses; converted from british army trucks
<balloons> crazy thins
<balloons> *things
<elfy> when I went they were still using them :p
<rbasak> pitti: do we have a bug on dep8 tests not run on SRUs?
<rbasak> I have a case where I want this as part of a wider effort, so want something to refer to current status of it.
<pitti> rbasak: ah, we can run them manually if desired, but we don't run britney on stables
<pitti> rbasak: perhaps we should though, even for SRUs
<rbasak> pitti: we want to do this though, right?
<rbasak> pitti: can I file a bug to track this, and if so, what should it be filed against?
<pitti> it would certainly be another nice barrier to avoid publishing broken stuff
<pitti> rbasak: hmm, good question -- https://bugs.launchpad.net/britney isn't configured
<pitti> rbasak: so perhaps just "ubuntu" with subscribing the release team?
<rbasak> pitti: ack. Thanks!
<rbasak> Filed https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1321691
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1321691 in Ubuntu "autopkgtest test suites are not run against SRU uploads" [Undecided,New]
<gQuigs> so the bug squad is going away into this team?  is this the right place to get a bug made public? https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/eecf81376420b8611d48d3e0a0c6ca8509e58e10
<balloons> gQuigs, you can still use #ubuntu-bugs
<gQuigs> which team should I join if I want to help more with bug triage?
<balloons> gQuigs, you can join the quality team
<balloons> gQuigs, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Roles, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Roles/BugTriager
<knome> poo, inkscape crashed
<knome> talk about quality ;)
<elfy> balloons: ping
#ubuntu-quality 2014-05-22
<pitti> Good morning
<balloons> elfy pong, though I guess you've gone
<elfy> balloons: didn't miss that by much :p
<elfy> I think I'm ok now - was wondering how I got access to package tracker as an admin - I believe that's xubuntu-release - I'm going to be assisting Studio in getting QA going for them so will be wanting to do the same for them as for us
<balloons> elfy, ahh yes indeed
<balloons> elfy, they'll need a similar team and we can grant access
<elfy> a similar QA team? or release team?
<elfy> I 'think' they have -release but not sure
<balloons> elfy, either or
<elfy> balloons: ok cheers :) have a good day
<balloons> elfy, you as well..
<elfy> :)
<DanChapman> Good Morning
<balloons> good morning DanChapman
<DanChapman> hey balloons how's it going in malta?
<balloons> DanChapman, excellent. It's nice to have everyone here and be able to speed up work on things requiring everyone
<rbasak> pitti: any thoughts on parameterising tests in debian/tests/control? I want to call the same breaks-testbed test twice, but with a different parameter each time.
<rbasak> pitti: the only way I can think of doing it is with a wrapper for each test.
<pitti> rbasak: yes, I think I saw that in some packages; they have a debian/tests/do-test and a "test1" calling "do-test foo", and a "test2" calling "do-test bar"
<rbasak> pitti: seems a bit ugly, but OK. Is a wishlist item of being able to do that directly from debian/tests/control acceptable?
<rbasak> I'm not sure what the syntax would be
<pitti> rbasak: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=741330 vaguely goes into the same direction, but it's not the same
<ubot5> Debian bug 741330 in autopkgtest "autopkgtest: please add ability to wrap a script/runner/adverb around existing tests" [Wishlist,Open]
<rbasak> Even if it were one per stanza maybe.
<rbasak> Tests: foo
<rbasak> Parameters: a b c
<pitti> rbasak: yeah, not sure either; it probably will require a lot of extra syntax which doesn't make the whole thing significantly easier..
<rbasak> would run "foo a", "foo b", "foo c"
<rbasak> Tests: foo bar
<rbasak> Parameters: a b
<rbasak> could run "foo a", "bar a", "foo b", "bar b"
<pitti> rbasak: then the next person will want this to have shell syntax, pass multiple arguments, pass outputs of other commands, etc. :0
<pitti> so, I'm certainly not avert to the idea, I just wonder if it will make things significantly easier and clearer
<rbasak> autopkgsh :)
<pitti> rbasak: the above could just as well be read as "invoke foo with arguments "a b"
<rbasak> "Why doesn't /etc/shells include autopkgsh? I want to use it as my login shell."
<rbasak> pitti: OK, then multiple Parameters: lines for each parameterisation
<rbasak> Anyway, yes, I agree it could get complicated.
<pitti> rbasak: so Parameters-foo: a b
<pitti> Parameters-bar: c d
<pitti> TBH I don't find it clearer than a shell script that just does what it wants, and it has a lot more flexibility
<pitti> debian/tests/foo
<pitti> #!/bin/sh
<rbasak> It just means that I have to clutter the directory with a ton of one-line wrappers
<pitti> do-test `dpkg --print-architecture` bar $ADTTMP/xx
<rbasak> I'd like to at least put those one liners into the control file somehow
<pitti> rbasak: yeah, I think that's actually a better suggestion
<pitti> rbasak: i. e. provide a syntax which puts the shell command to call directly into debian/tests/control
<rbasak> That would certainly be significantly better.
<pitti> Tests: "debian/tests/do-test foo"
<rbasak> Right
<pitti> and it's simple enough to be told apart
<pitti> rbasak: now we can get into a long and deep argument about whether ".." or (..) or `..` quoting is better and clearer :)
<rbasak> :)
<rbasak> http://xkcd.com/1172/
 * pitti votes for â..â which is very simiple to type, right?
<rbasak> "My test had a " character in it and your new feature broke it"
<pitti> rbasak: well, the definition thankfully excludes that already
<pitti> Test names are separated by whitespace and should contain only
<pitti>     characters which are legal in package names. It is permitted, but
<pitti>     not encouraged, to use upper-case characters as well.
<pitti> a lawyer would certainly read it as "anything goes", but we can turn this into "must only contain ... plus (discouraged) upper-case letters"
<rbasak> RFC2119 section 3 :)
<pitti> oh right, RFCs how to write RFCs
<elopio> rpadovani: I'm sorry, we better wait for tomorrow because my branches on reminders have not landed.
<elopio> I'll try to push them before EOD today.
 * cgoldberg lolz at "spacebar heating"
<gQuigs> are their not daily images of trusty?
<elfy> not anymore
<elfy> trusty is released
<slickymasterWork> gQuigs: at the most you could get the source images containing the source code used to build Ubuntu
<gQuigs> elfy: we still do daily images for precise: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/precise/
<slickymasterWork> gQuigs: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/source/pending/source/
<gQuigs> how else will we test the point releases?
<elfy> gQuigs: good point
 * elfy is in non lts mode already :)
<elfy> balloons: what are the plans for Trusty dailies?
#ubuntu-quality 2014-05-23
<balloons> elfy, trusty dailies?
<elfy> balloons: yep - we have Precise ones - that's LTS - why no Trusty ones? or we waiting for it to get to .1 ?
<balloons> elfy, ohh gotcha
<balloons> lol, I was thinking, why would we have a trusty daily!
<elfy> I thought exactly the same thing when someone asked in the channel :)
<balloons> yes, nothing until .1 I believe
<elfy> ok thanks - I guessed once I thought about it for a bit
<elfy> balloons: you flying back today?
<balloons> elfy, Sunday actually
<balloons> I won't be touching english soil on the way back either
<elfy> longish flight
<balloons> elfy, yes, quite long.. the timezone offset is quite large
<balloons> I should be going to sleep when I awake and vice versa
<elfy> yea
<elopio> robotfuel: https://code.launchpad.net/~elopio/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/clean_gallery_tests1/+merge/219792
<elopio> om26er: https://code.launchpad.net/~elopio/address-book-app/refactoring_tests1/+merge/220654
<elopio> search for
<elopio> @autopilot.logging.log_action(logger.info)
<balloons> kind of fun to be up at this hour though I must say.. IRC is a different world
<elfy> heh
<elfy> different people to annoy :)
<balloons> ^^ exactly
<balloons> like, I dunno forestpiskie perhaps?
<elfy> ooh yea - you can annoy him all you want - I do
<elfy> he's not very talkative - but he logs everything :p
<elfy> one sad day I'll get around to an always on gui client - then you can say goodbye to him :)
<balloons> oO
<balloons> we'll hold a sendoff party for him
<elfy> I'll take a big hammer :p
<knome> balloons, awh, come on, moderated qa list subscription? :P
<knome> balloons, lemme in :P
<elfy> ha
<knome> hmm, i think it was automatical
<knome> or somebody acted very quickly
<knome> the mail you get when you first subscribe from the web interface is bleh though
<balloons> knome, afraid to join?
<knome> balloons, lol
<knome> balloons, well i don't like subscribing for more mail ;)
<knome> but... oh well.
<balloons> :-)
 * balloons seems a knome subscribed
<knome> yep, just did
<elfy> balloons: then unsubscribe it - seems fair :p
<knome> haha
<knome> well then don't expect me to work on $things
<elfy> balloons: actually the best thing to do here - is add him to the list of people that can moderate the list - but DON'T give him the password - let him see what it's like :p
<knome> hahah
<knome> elfy, see your email :P
<knome> elfy, ...for the reason i was subscribing
<elfy> nope - not seen it yet
<knome> should propagate there soon
<knome> unless you're getting digests
<elfy> nah - I hate digests with a passion
<knome> yeah
<elfy> even more I hate people that use digests - and then reply to them - but leave loads of cruft
<knome> lol, yeah...
<elfy> there's no mail on the archive yet either
<knome> and a wrong subject line
<knome> the worst case?
<elfy> indeed
<knome> an offtopic message body.
<elfy> lol
<elfy> anyway - bbl
<knome> hf
<balloons> I love the reply to digest emails to open a new unrelated thread
<balloons> those are the best :-)
<knome> ugh
<elfy> balloons: I see talk in -release about trusty dailies now lol
<balloons> elfy, heh
<rvr> balloons: Hey
<rvr> balloons: How can I delete shorts-app database? Do you know in which directory is the db stored?
#ubuntu-quality 2015-05-18
<bdmurray> jibel: There are quite a few utopic tests that are showing as in progress that aren't. http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html e.g. gvfs
<bdmurray> jibel: Do you know what is going on?
<bdmurray> or pitti ^^/
<balloons> nuclearbob, want to go ahead and leave your comments on https://code.launchpad.net/~nskaggs/qtcreator-plugin-ubuntu/update-qml-autopilot/+merge/259164?
#ubuntu-quality 2015-05-19
<elfy> pitti: I'm using something as ps3 media server - worked fine in vivid, works fine in wily if I boot with upstart, but if I boot with systemd - reboot/shutdown hangs for exactly 90s - what can I do to troubleshoot this now I've found what it is?
<elfy> the something is serviio - uses java 8
<pitti> elfy: I assume you mean "works fine in vivid" == if you boot with upstart?
<elfy> in vivid it works fine with either upstart or systemd
<pitti> elfy: /usr/share/doc/systemd/README.Debian "Debugging boot/shutdown problems"
<pitti> elfy: i. e. enable debug shell, switch to it while shutdown hangs, systemctl list-jobs will show you the running job(s); then you can inspect with systemctl status, journalctl, poke processes, etc.
<elfy> ok - I'll have a look then - thanks :)
<pitti> elfy: 90s is the standard systemd timeout for start/stop commands
<elfy> pitti: ok ty
<oSoMoN_> davmor2, hey, have you had a chance to check silo 32 ?
<alesage> oSoMoN__, some latency here as we're sprinting
<oSoMoN__> alesage, thanks! I understand there is some latency due to the sprint, IÂ just wanted to make sure it doesnât fall off the radar
<alesage> oSoMoN, it never hurts to ping :)
<davmor2> oSoMoN: yeap first one today was just in a meeting
<oSoMoN> davmor2, awesome, thanks!
<oSoMoN> how is it going in Orlando btw?
<davmor2> oSoMoN: slowly but it is going.
<elfy> pitti: seems2 things are still running, session-c2.scope and sys-subsystem-=net-device-virbr0-nic.device, no idea what either of those have got to do with this ps3 server though - and without that (and it's java tasks) it reboots as expected
<pitti> elfy: the virbr0 thingy sounds relevant, something from libvirt? I think I faintly remember some similar reports during vivid, but they were pretty much completely fixed with bug 1438612
<ubot5> bug 1438612 in dbus (Ubuntu) "remote file systems hang on shutdown, D-BUS stops too early" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1438612
<pitti> elfy: if you can reproduce that in a VM somehow, I'd highly appreciate a bug report
<pitti> elfy: if you manually shutdown the virbr0 device in the debug shell, does shutdown resume normally then?
<elfy> not sure pitti
<elfy> what I'm right in the middle of is removing qemu as I don't use it much anyway
<pitti> qemu?
<pitti> that shouldn't affect shutdown at all; libvirt surely would
<elfy> kvm or whatever - that I believe is where libvirt got installed at least
<balloons> breaking things again I see elfy
<elfy> balloons: there is a Y in the day :)
<balloons> if you are up for it, the live q and a in 45 mins will have some QA folks in it.. I'd love for you to grill them :-)
<ianorlyn> although if you end up dual booting with qemu I might need to find a way to manually eject the disk as it won't eject the install media if it is not the first install on the vm if you try to disconnect the cd in virt manager for me but I think that is basically virt-manager doesn't expect dual boot vms
<elfy> pitti: so without libvirt - it was just session-c2.scope running - seemingly no way to stop that
<pitti> elfy: that's your user session; perhaps something is hung there?
<elfy> anyway I'll see if I can see it in a vm install and use that
<pitti> elfy: loginctl session-status c2
<pitti> elfy: that shows you the processes that are running in that session
<pitti> elfy: kill them one by one to find the culprit?
<elfy> pitti: if I don't go to vt9 with the debug shell - but just let it do it'sd thing - and then ctrl+al+del a bunch of times - it tells me alsa is trying to start
<elfy> but - as I said going to set up a vm the same as this and hope that fails too - this rebooting in 90s is driving me nuts :p
<pitti> elfy: yes, please let's debug this; you can be sure that affects more people :)
<elfy> balloons: where live session- and is there an IRC channel to grill people
<pitti> elfy: but I haven't gotten a report about hanging session-*.scope yet, so I can't give any tips in advance
<elfy> pitti: yep,aas soon as I'm set I'll let you know and we can go from there
<balloons> ubuntuonair.com, #ubuntu-on-air
<balloons> happening in 30 mins :-)]
<elfy> ok - just opening up the 50 page doc of grievances ...
<elfy> I'll just paste that :p
<balloons> elfy, perfect.. we won't be short on content
<elfy> ha ha ha
<elfy> balloons: 1700UTC is in ~90 minutes ...
<elfy> oh nvm - got an e-mail just now :p
<balloons> elfy, I was wrong.. mhall119 corrected me,,. 1700 it is
<elfy> balloons: so 17:00 UTC for sure?
<elfy> I have 3 nice questions lined up :)
<wxl> awwwwwwwww fooey
<balloons> elfy, yes 1700 for sure
<balloons> wxl, if you have a question, leave it and I'll ask it
<balloons> I'm sorry i jumped the gun on the time!
<balloons> just excitied
<wxl> thx balloons
<wxl> esp. thx for including lubuntu-qa!
<wxl> saves me the trouble XD
<balloons> ofc!
<elfy> hong kong phooey
<elfy> xubuntu didn't get one :|
<elfy> hating on Nick now ...
<wxl> i â¥ hong kong phooey
 * wxl used to have the lunch box
<elfy> lol
<mhall119> balloons: yeah, I've updated our calendar event to match
<balloons> excellent
<balloons> elfy, xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com or >
<balloons> ?
<elfy> balloons: that is our dev list - that's where our QA stuff goes
<balloons> there you go
<elfy> pitti: ok - reproduced in vbox - if you really want me to jump through the hoops from qemu let me know, but at least I can debug sensibly now
<aikidouke> are there scheduled quality team meetings?
<pitti> elfy: how do you mean "jump through the hoops"? if you can reproduce it and have a recipe how to set up QEMU that it hangs, that's all I need :)
<elfy> pitti: I mean actually reinstall something I don't use :p
<elfy> but I'm doing that now
<pitti> elfy: oh, "vbox" -- that'll do too
<pitti> elfy: when I said "QEMU" I really meant "check if you can reproduce this from a clean install in a standard environment"
<pitti> elfy: i. e. just open a bug, tell me what exactly you did to get the hang, and I'll see to reproduce it
<elfy> pitti: what shall I report it against then?
<mhall119> balloons: and whomever is joining you on the Q&A: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYc_Jg_IyTLOUIpvtL24uYefe8mWf-6639QfspZIAHUEtjyPdg?authuser=2&hl=en
<elfy> pitti: I assume systemd
<balloons> mhall119, ack
<balloons> mhall119, we'll be a moment
<mhall119> ok
<pitti> elfy: systemd sounds okay, I'll reassign it as appropriate (probably libvirt -- but do start with sytsemd, it collects interesting logs)
<elfy> pitti: ack
<elfy> I'll just finish up qemu as well now I've started :)
<pitti> elfy: argh, sorry for the confusion and double work
<elfy> pitti: no matter - best to prove it where I can I think :)
<elfy> pitti: bug 1456730 I think I got everything
<ubot5> bug 1456730 in systemd (Ubuntu) "Hang after installing and running serviio" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1456730
<Kamilion> Curious about how/if Xen gets tested (in or out of openstack)
<kenvandine> ubuntu-qa: is it possible to automate integration testing for content transfers that require using multiple processes yet?
<kenvandine> i created those testability peers to aid in this, but i think we still need work there
<kenvandine> i think we could possibly test transfers between the testibility peers, but not initiated by url-dispatcher
<kenvandine> there wouldn't be a way to test the success or failure
<kenvandine> this is specifically around testing this branch: https://code.launchpad.net/~ken-vandine/content-hub/url-dispatcher/+merge/259039
<kenvandine> url-dispatcher is a fire and forget kind of thing, we won't have any way to confirm the other end succeeded in an automated way... it would launch another app
<kenvandine> vrruiz, ^^
<balloons> nuclearbob, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-quality/2015-May/005962.html is the mailing list thread. I think a reply from you would make some folks happy :-)
<elfy> balloons: anyway - so my main milestone issue is that last couple of cycles - everyone but Ubuntu has had to chase up issues that do affect Ubuntu
<elfy> if - everyone diodn't bother with milestones until Final - there's just going to be more being shouted about right at the end
 * wxl notes that there does not seem to be a ticket for the jenkins thing on rt
<balloons> elfy, ahh. Sorry I didn't pick that up in the question. So your concern is that the issues wouldn't be noticed if flavors didn't test during milestones
<wxl> in fact a search for jenkins in content only pulls up two tickets, both of which are resolved
<wxl> so maybe it would be wise to report this to rt so we can track status, elfy/balloons
<balloons> wxl, that's correct, there is no RT atm.
<wxl> that way we don't have to ask the question about where it's at
<wxl> balloons: elfy: if you guys don't have time, let me know and i'll jump in!
<balloons> wxl, sure go for it :-)
<wxl> oh man so excited to hear that formal testing is on the way!!!
 * wxl just catching up on what i missed on ubuntu on air
<elfy> balloons: yes - that's my issue in a nut shell :)
<balloons> elfy, that's an excellent point. So given the fact ubuntu will continue with only a couple milestones, what can we do to mitigate issues? I think having those installer tests and the information obtained more readily consumable would allay your concerns. Would you agree?
<elfy> I'd hope that would get closer to allaying them :p
<wxl> sent
<elfy> balloons: tbh - not sure what *we're* going to do yet milestone wise
<elfy> balloons: also concerned that ALL flavours help with setting the 'pre-Ubuntu'milestones up too
<elfy> Kubuntu/Xubuntu and Lubuntu did the last cycles ones
<balloons> elfy, do you not think it's well represented? As I said, I thought you collectively have been doing a great job
<elfy> balloons: not what I mean at all - I'll be sorely pissed off if the same people end up doing it over and over again is all :)
<elfy> the other flavours need to also step up to the plate
<balloons> elfy, it would seem to me however, dropping a milestone or two is still probably a good idea for most flavors. But that's just me. I think this has been reflected by teams skipping one
<elfy> yea - we're likely to start at Beta again - though that's not set in stone yet
<balloons> elfy, ahh.. yes, ubuntu gnome and ubuntu mate should play a role this time around. I believe / trust they will, but we can urge them towards that
<elfy> ali hates irc :p
<balloons> kylin as well.. :-)
<elfy> yep
<balloons> elfy, :-)
<balloons> ok, so I think for the moment then focusing on getting ubiquity tests running again is a good way forward
<elfy> yep - agreed
<balloons> then, making sure other flavors provide coverage for milestones, while encouraging them to review how many they wish to have would be next
<balloons> awesome, nice to be on the same page :-)
<elfy> for sure :)
<alesage> kenvandine, FYI we're sprinting, sure that ubuntu-qa wants to answer your q in time :) ^^
<elfy> balloons: so the next question - who was that bouncing about on your bed :p
<kenvandine> alesage, thx, i can't think of a way we can test the url-dispatcher stuff, since it's really a fire and forget
<veebers> kenvandine: what would be involved? Do you need to launch 2 apps or something at a lower level?
<kenvandine> but vrruiz is blocking my landing :)
<kenvandine> well i need to run url-dispatcher with a content url
<kenvandine> then handle the app that it opens
<kenvandine> but url-dispatcher won't tell me if the content transfer succeeded or not
<kenvandine> it just hands it off
<veebers> kenvandine: If the app that is launched is launched with testability that autopilot will be able to introspect it
<balloons> elfy, you got to see Leo and Max, who are elopio and nuclearbob respectively
<kenvandine> veebers, can url-dispatcher launch an app with testability?
<elfy> balloons: I thought Leo was elopio -wasn't sure the hairy beardy was though :p
<kenvandine> and actually it's harder than that
<kenvandine> url-dispatcher calls content-hub-send which creates a transfer with the content-hub-service which launches messaging-app with ubuntu-app-launch
<kenvandine> so quite a few levels there, plus dbus
<kenvandine> we've never been able automate that stuff, and hadn't allocated the time to do all that for this sprint
<pitti> elfy: thanks for your report! will check tomorrow
<elfy> pitti: okey doke - thought you'd gone home by now :)
<pitti> elfy: technically I never left home :)
<pitti> elfy: but I was checking some important bug again
<elfy> :)
<veebers> kenvandine: If you want to <trigger url-dispatch> -> [blackbox] -> Apps is launched and displays received details. You should be able to.
<veebers> kenvandine: Just in a meeting at the mo. but you should be able to set the testability env var for the launch of the app (at the end there)
<elfy> wxl: lol - where did you drag piskie up from :) I don't see that nick much anymore
<balloons> elopio, http://people.canonical.com/~nskaggs/core-apps-test-sponsoring.html. I believe calc, terminal and docviewer are worthy of a look
<wxl> elfy:
<wxl> 1310 -!- elfy [elfy@ubuntu/member/forestpiskie]
<wxl> 1310 -!-  ircname  : forestpiskie
<elfy> heh - don'toften look at that :)
<wxl> is that your launchpad id??/
<elfy> elfy is
<elfy> everywhere but the old freenode account
<elfy> and that e-mail address is almost dead now too
<elfy> LP is correct
<elopio> sjcazzol: http://people.canonical.com/~nskaggs/core-apps-test-sponsoring.html
<elfy> evening elopio - you made my day bouncing on that bed :p
<elfy> at least it looked like a bed ...
<balloons> sjcazzol, hello
<balloons> sjcazzol, https://code.launchpad.net/~nskaggs/autopilot/add-wm-sandbox-run/+merge/242274
<balloons> sjcazzol, elopio autopilot3-sandbox-run -X -s 400x600
<sjcazzol> balloons,
<sjcazzol> balloons, thanks
#ubuntu-quality 2015-05-20
<elopio> pitti: is --system in systemd the equivalent of upstart's --global ?
<pitti> elopio: systemctl --system is the same as initctl --system, i. e. talk to pid1, not the session init
<pitti> (not sure what --global is)
<elopio> pitti: I used global to set some environment variables.
<elopio> Like initctl set-env --global ENV=value
<elopio> will set the variable in a differen environment than
<elopio> initctl set-env ENV1=value
<pitti> elopio: ah, so systemctl set-environment does that
<elopio> pitti: yes, I can do systemctl set-enviroment --user ENV=value, which seems to work just as when I didn't pass the --global.
<elopio> but systemctl set-environment or systemct set-environment --system gives me permissions errors.
<pitti> elopio: hm, not sure that --user will be useful -- we don't really use the session systemd init
<pitti> everything is being started from the session upstart
<pitti> so you only want this for system-wide environment variables (i. e. pid 1)
<pitti> right, obviously that needs to happen as root :0
<elopio> pitti: this is for getting our tests ready for when systemd will be the session manager.
<elopio> for now we will keep setting the upstart env variables.
<pitti> elopio: ah, understood; so you'll poke them into both
<elopio> so it seems we need to go and check that everything we used to do with initctl --global can work now with systemctl --user.
<pitti> elopio: then set-environment --user sounds like the right thing
<elopio> pitti: thanks.
<elopio> The ETA for ubuntu-app-launch with systemd is ~july, so we have time. I will probably be back with more questions.
<elopio> pitti: can you give me a hand when you have some time? I'm trying adt-run on snappy, but get two errors:
<elopio> the required argument `Release` was not provided
<elopio> Timed out on waiting for ssh connection
<elopio> http://paste.ubuntu.com/11246001/
<pitti> elopio: argh, so they changed the ubuntu-device-flash syntax again :/
<pitti> elopio: TBH I don't know what the syntax du jour is; you can create an image manually, and run --- ssh -s snappy -- -i /path/to/your/image
<elopio> pitti: I tried that and got only the ssh error.
<pitti> elopio: hm, if you boot the image in kvm, do you actually get ssh running?
<pitti> maybe that's disabled by default now, and needs to be enabled somehow?
<pitti> sorry, /me is stuck in security work, only half a brain cell left
<elopio> pitti: let me retry. Maybe I had my vm running, and the second one failed to start.
<ki7mt> hi elfy, you available for a quick chat ?
<elfy> ki7mt: off and on - just got in from work
<ki7mt> elfy, Can I send you a quick pm to ask you a couple things?
<elfy> yep
<ianorlyn>  hmm I got a fail with May 19th dialy for lubuntu alternate then tried to see if the problem also was with server but it failed at a different spot so not sure if I need to open  a new bug or not
<ianorlyn> bug 1456838 is the one I reported yesterday for lubuntu alternate
<ubot5> bug 1456838 in debian-installer (Ubuntu) "debian installer fails to chroot on lubuntu amd 64 in kvm" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1456838
<wxl> ianorlyn: if you're not sure, then file a new bug. you can reference the potential other bug in there if you want, though that sort of behavior is apparently not recommended by launchpad. i disagree, personally.
<wxl> ianorlyn: if bdmurray yells at you about it, tell him it's all my fault ;)
<ianorlyn> although I think the best way of getting logs from another machine on network when debian-installer fails is to wget -r the ip address on the lan.
<elopio> rhuddie: https://code.launchpad.net/~josharenson/unity8/settings_wizard_tests/+merge/259537
<elopio> rhuddie: could you take care of it?
<rhuddie> elopio, yes, I'll take a look. thanks.
<elopio> thanks to you.
#ubuntu-quality 2015-05-21
<t1mp> hello
<t1mp> I'm having problems to run some autopilot tests on device. I get errors that backends cannot be loaded, see http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/11264957/
<t1mp> any ideas?
<veebers> t1mp: Oh, that's odd. How did you install autopilot or the uuitk test deps?
<t1mp> veebers: ah I got it already. Thanks to kalikiana
<veebers> t1mp: hah cool :-) What was the fix btw?
<t1mp> veebers: I did: sudo apt-get install ubuntu-ui-toolkit-autopilot
<t1mp> on the device
<t1mp> it appears the python3-evdev was not installed
<t1mp> shouldn't that be a dependency of autopilot then?
<veebers> t1mp: sweet, just what I was about to suggest :-) Thanks kalikiana
<veebers> t1mp: good question, will follow that up
<t1mp> veebers: thanks
<veebers> t1mp: ah, it's a Depends in autopilot-touch
<veebers> (as opposed to autopilot-desktop which depends python3-xlib
<t1mp> ok, I didn't realize that exists. I assumed ubuntu-ui-toolkit-autopilot would install all the dependencies
<veebers> t1mp: ubuntu-ui-toolkit-autopilot did though didn't it? It's not a depends on python3-autopilot as that runs on either device or desktop (don't want xlib on device)
<t1mp> veebers: I'm not sure I get what you mean
<t1mp> veebers: ubuntu-ui-toolkit-autopilot depends on python3-autopilot >=1.4
<veebers> t1mp: oh hmm sorry I thought that it depends on autopilot-touch, but apparently not.
<t1mp> weird, python3-autopilot depends on python3-evdev, and ubuntu-ui-toolkit-autopilot depends on python3-autopilot, but ubuntu-ui-toolkit-autopilot did not get me python3-evdev
<gQuigs> is there a guide to working on regressions noted by http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html ?
<gQuigs> do I just try to reproduce with my autopkg tests or somethin?
 * gQuigs is particularly interested in apt w/ bug #1449394 
<ubot5> bug 1449394 in apt (Ubuntu Precise) "Crash 854d2ed5e61bf3647f46bb17bb41958c97c4f58d" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1449394
<dkessel> balloons: hey. did you have a chance to test the new unity next desktop live image?
<dkessel> for me, plymouth fails and afterwards, the boote process is stuck with a message that it is waiting for plymouth to start.
<dkessel> also, i don't know the user credentials for the TTYs... ubuntu/ubuntu is not working
<ianorlyn> dkessel: maybe try ubuntu and no password
<dkessel> ianorlyn: nope. tried that too
<dkessel> apperently, the installer session is working. the real live session is broken though
<dkessel> and when exiting ubiquity, the system does not shut down properly, but hangs and can only be shut down if the user presses the power button
<balloons> dkessel, I have not yet had a chance. I'm away from home this week, so it's a bit tough. I should seem if unity8-lxc uses the new image
<balloons> dkessel, are you running on supported hardware?
<dkessel> Intel-based laptop with optimus graphics. It did work with the vivid images.
<knome> chihchun_afk, hey, since it's even in the guidelines... please try to avoid awaynicks:
<dkessel> balloons ^
<knome> !away | chihchun_afk
<ubot5> chihchun_afk: Please do not use noisy away messages and nicks in Ubuntu channels. It is annoying and unnecessary. Use the command "/away <reason>" to set your client away silently. See also Â«/msg ubot5 GuidelinesÂ»
<knome> balloons, see, i'm whining, i'm back! (:
<balloons> o hai knome !
<knome> hai balloons
<balloons> dkessel, ahh sounds fine. I asked because the symptoms sounded vaguely familiar of another issue is all
<dkessel> Dell XPS 15 to be exact, balloons. Do you happen to know the user credentials for the tty?
<balloons> dkessel, I think it was randomly generated, or expected to be set on boot.. can you just use passwd?
<balloons> a question for the unity guys nonetheless
<balloons> dkessel, let's hop over to #ubuntu-unity and see what they have to say
<dkessel> Okay
<balloons> thanks dkessel for bringing it up and finding issues :-) you going to try unity8-lxc now?
<balloons> if you do, would you mind checking out the terminal and file manager apps and letting me know if they work well for you?
<dkessel> balloons: i'll try them if i get that far...
<balloons> confidence!
<dkessel> i also wonder since when testdrive-gtk does not list the normal ubuntu desktop images anymore, and if that is something with my configuration, or something else...
<elfy> I added testdrive to the forums profanity filter you know ...
<balloons> :-) dkessel we've shied away from actively recommending testdrive I think
<elfy> :p
<balloons> the underlying tech via zsync is still there, ready and waiting for you.
<elfy> \o/
<balloons> But I agree, testdrive has some handy features
<elfy> I found you have to install it though ... working to get zsync added to xubuntu for me :p
<dkessel> testdrive has some issues that could be fixed, but basically, i like it.
<dkessel> didn't notice testdrive is not recommended anymore
<balloons> dkessel, yes agreed. But the issues keep me hesitant to recommend it
<dkessel> well there i was in unity-lxc, and i had no wireless networking.... so i could not install your apps balloons.
<dkessel> but hey, at least the session basically works
 * dkessel looks at unity8-lxc-setup to see if that can setup networking
<balloons> dkessel, mmm.. I guess that's a win
<dkessel> hmmmm no
<balloons> why no networking? Did you use the indicator to connect?
<balloons> I think I'm usually on wired tho
<dkessel> the indicator does not list any of the dozens wireless networks around here
<dkessel> i'll grab a wire
<balloons> kk, another issue to record nonetheless
<dkessel> balloons: I guess that is due to the container. The network connection works now. Somehow the indicator does not notice though
<dkessel> I can see apps in the store but when I click install, nothing happens
<balloons> dkessel, you need to add a ubuntu one account. Do so in system setting / accounts
<balloons> it should just prompt you
<dkessel> It doesn't. And adding any account does not work either... Short loading animation on the right, then nothing happens.
<dkessel> Well, it I ear
<dkessel> It is early on the cycle I mean....
<balloons> dkessel, this used to work . . .
<dkessel> I know balloons
<balloons> :-)
<balloons> danke for being the one to find the breakage
<dkessel> i am looking forward to installing and running unity8 regularly soon, so i can find even more ;)
<balloons> keep in touch as you do :-)
<balloons> good evening Letozaf_
<Letozaf_> balloons, hello :D
<dkessel> hey Letozaf_ :)
<Letozaf_> dkessel, hey :)
<dkessel> i am looking forward to joining you as ubuntu phone user when the mx4 get released in europe
<Letozaf_> dkessel, great, you will surely enjoy being a Ubuntu Phone user :)
 * balloons can attest that the mx4 is a really nice device
<dkessel> Letozaf_: have you completely replaced your previous phone with the aquaris?
<Letozaf_> dkessel, yes, I use my Ubuntu Phone every day
<elopio> veebers: cachio: http://paste.ubuntu.com/11270791/
<elopio> that's what I was talking about. Sorry about the mess, bad memory.
<veebers> elopio: nice convo, are you able to file a bug with that as a comment perhaps?
<elopio> veebers: yes, I am.
<elopio> I'll do it.
<cachio> elopio, veebers I already created the bug
<elopio> what I would like to see is the error trace.
<elopio> cachio: link pleae.
<elopio> please
<cachio> elopio, https://bugs.launchpad.net/autopilot/+bug/1457652
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1457652 in Autopilot "Exception raised creating a keyboard with ubuntu-keyboard-autopilot installed" [Undecided,New]
<elopio> ty
<veebers> elopio, cachio thanks
<cachio> elopio, feel free to edit it
<elopio> vila: do you remember this? http://paste.ubuntu.com/11270791/
<elopio> any chance you have the trace for the error we were discussing in there?
<vila> elopio: /me reads
<vila> elopio: my brain is a bit melted... I would say it was related to the sanity tests...
<vila> elopio: .. but I also have a gut feelin
<vila> meh
<vila> this was on a phone
<vila> elopio: do you remember *when* this happened (that would help)
<vila> around 2015-04-27 17:47:57
<elopio> vila: yes.
<vila> elopio: no luck so far but still some leads to explore, what are you after more precisely ?
<elopio> vila: I just want to report the issue. Finding the trace would be nice, but I will just do it without the trace.
<elopio> thanks.
<vila> elopio: I'm not sure I still have it...
#ubuntu-quality 2015-05-22
<pitti> jibel: do you know why shotwell in http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html#libgphoto2 is still in progress? I re-ran it already, and removed the status files on britney, but it seems that still wasn't enough
#ubuntu-quality 2016-05-23
<oSoMoN> pitti, could you please re-run the tests marked as regression at http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/yakkety/update_excuses.html#webbrowser-app with --all-proposed (as suggested by Saviq)?
<pitti> oSoMoN: I already requeued them
<pitti> oSoMoN: they are just waiting for the backlog
<oSoMoN> pitti, great, thanks a lot!
#ubuntu-quality 2017-05-22
<flocculant> jibel: thanks for the offer of help - but given it requires some coding - you''ll never have enough time to help me :D
<jibel> flocculant, yw. Although, just deploying the tests for a flavor doesn't require coding.
<jibel> flocculant, there is an example here http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~canonical-platform-qa-jenkins/qa-jenkins-jobs/trunk/view/head:/jobs/ubiquity/jobs.yaml in the task 'run-ubiquity-test'
<flocculant> jibel: ok - I'll have a look when back properly from work :)
<jibel> flocculant, np, enjoy your work :)
<flocculant> this is mostly the reason I concentrate on the manual testcase branch :D
<unholycheesecake> hi
<unholycheesecake> I'm looking for some info on how I can get involved in QA testing. I've already browsed through this site here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam
#ubuntu-quality 2018-05-21
<balloons> good day flocculant. Enjoy the calm of post-LTS yet?
<tsimonq2> balloons! :)
<balloons> tsimonq2, why hello to you as well
<tsimonq2> balloons: I've noticed a change. ;)
<balloons> Indeed!
<flocculant> balloons: kind of - got cantankerous critter installed already ;)
<flocculant> I hear you've found a greener field - well done :)
<tsimonq2> Indeed.
<tsimonq2> IS is a bit liberal sometimes with the teams they remove you from, I hear. :P
<tsimonq2> balloons: Remember to join ~not-canonical if our giuesses are right. ;)
<tsimonq2> *guesses
<balloons> Lol. I guess I'll be needing an invite
<flocculant> balloons: you any idea where the best place to ask about bzr auth problems?
<flocculant> I was in that team once :p
<wxl> flocculant: #launchpad
 * flocculant is helping one of my lot get into manual testcase stuff
<flocculant> cheers wxl
<wxl> np
<flocculant> willem - try #launchpad
<balloons> Make sure your ssh keys are setup properly :)
<wxl> usually if (going from memory) `bzr whoami` is correct, it should just work unless it's some sort of ssh issue
<flocculant> it appears tro be an ssh issue from the mail I got
<flocculant> anyway - not something I can help with
<balloons> ssh-add can help as well
<willem> flocculant, balloons thanks! will look into ssh-add and if that does not get me any further I'll go to #launchpad
<flocculant> np
<willem> ssh-add did the trick :-) I'll press on now.
<flocculant> \o/
<willem> flocculant, so, I'm doing lp1772048, am now at the "Pushing a branch" bit; I am not certain what the "mychanges" (the actual branch name?) in bzr push lp:~yourusername/ubuntu-manual-tests/mychanges is supposed to be.
<wxl> willem: anything you want it to be. i usually describe what i'm fixing
<willem> so, Gigolo would be appropriate in this case?
<wxl> it really doesn't matter. you could use random characters if you want :)
<willem> -- right. What confuses me is the term "branch" here. But, never mind for now. I just want to go through the motions and will try to understand later ;-)
<wxl> those are common terms in version control
<willem> Understand.
<wxl> this is about git, but same idea. look at the picture and you'll get the idea. the purple and green dots represent branches of the main code (and note that the horizontal axis is time)
<wxl> https://www.atlassian.com/git/tutorials/using-branches
<willem> wxl, thanks! will have a look.
<willem> hmm, still something wrong with ssh-key it seems: bze push gives  Permission denied (publickey).
<willem> bzr: ERROR: Connection closed: Unexpected end of message. Please check connectivity and permissions, and report a bug if problems persist.
<willem> will, have to look into that first. But: was almost there :-)
<wxl> try just `ssh lp`
<willem> ssh: Could not resolve hostname lp: Temporary failure in name resolution
<wxl> ok so add this to ~/.ssh/config :
<wxl> Host lp
<wxl>   User youruser
<wxl>   IdentityFile ~/.ssh/yourprivatekey
<wxl>   Hostname bazaar.launchpad.net
<willem> it seems there is no config in /ssh. Can I just create it?
<wxl> yep
<willem> thanks. Will do that
<willem>  So sorry about this, but ssh lp now gives: No shells on this server. Connection to bazaar.launchpad.net closed.
<wxl> that's GOOD
<wxl> now try again the other command
<willem>  bzr push lp:~whobers/ubuntu-manual-tests/gigolo
<willem> whobers@bazaar.launchpad.net: Permission denied (publickey).
<willem> ConnectionReset reading response for 'BzrDir.open_2.1', retrying
<willem> whobers@bazaar.launchpad.net: Permission denied (publickey).
<willem> bzr: ERROR: Connection closed: Unexpected end of message. Please check connectivity and permissions, and report a bug if problems persist.
<willem> :-(
<willem> wxl, sorted! knome suggested I add bazaar.launchpad.net as a host in ssh/config. That was the final push. Thanks for your help. Have just proposed my first two (tiny) changes to testcases.
#ubuntu-quality 2018-05-26
<internot_gl> THIS IS AN EMERGENCY NOTICE THIS IS NOT SPAM: THIS NOTICE IS CURRENTLY GOING OUT TO ALL CHANNELS THROUGH THE FREENODE EMERGENCY NOTIFICATION SYSTEM: GRUMBLE HAS INADVERTENTLY NOT RESET THE FREENODE SECURITY PASSWORD CAUSING A BREAK IN FREENODE SECURITY WHERE ALL PASSWORDS HAVE BEEN RELEASED. PLEASE SEE GRUMLE IN #FREENODE FOR INFORMATION ON HOW TO SECURE YOUR ACCOUNT!!
<internot_gl> THIS IS AN EMERGENCY NOTICE THIS IS NOT SPAM: THIS NOTICE IS CURRENTLY GOING OUT TO ALL CHANNELS THROUGH THE FREENODE EMERGENCY NOTIFICATION SYSTEM: GRUMBLE HAS INADVERTENTLY NOT RESET THE FREENODE SECURITY PASSWORD CAUSING A BREAK IN FREENODE SECURITY WHERE ALL PASSWORDS HAVE BEEN RELEASED. PLEASE SEE GRUMLE IN #FREENODE FOR INFORMATION ON HOW TO SECURE YOUR ACCOUNT!!
<internot_gl> maclin hggdh veebers flocculant chrisccoulson teward kenvandine ralsina DalekSec chihchun acheronuk sgclark Spydar007 ubot9 vila jibel wxl alai inara tai271828 ahoneybun vtapia pleia2 slickymaster manjo om26er czchen_ meetingology balloons sbeattie micahg el Guest64207 Kamilion queuebot Wimpress Guest16456 mapreri tsimonq2 cyphermox ubot5 StanleyHsiao_ dkessel bashfulrobot akxwi-dave mwhudson Noskcaj rbasak gsilvapt ubuntulog2 ubuntulo13 bladernr
#ubuntu-quality 2020-05-22
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <ItzSwirlz> Welcome
#ubuntu-quality 2020-05-23
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <philipz> someone from another telegram group i'm in filed this bug - https://bugs.launchpad.net/calibre/+bug/1880325
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1880325 in calibre "Intel Wireless Centrino N100 error in Txrate and Bitrate" [Undecided,New]
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <philipz> its against the intel wireless card, so i presume it should be changed to 'linux' rather than being against 'calibre'
<tomreyn> philipz: i used the powers of my launchpad account to update it to Ubuntu's linux-meta. I think anyone with a Launchpad account (which is free) could have done so.
<tomreyn> thanks for pointing it out.
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, no clue why anybody would file a wireless issue against an e-book library manager. :P
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <philipz> yep, there was a language barrier when i was suggesting the person file the bug :D
<Eickmeyer> @philipz: The other thing is that, except for rare circumstances, one should always use "ubuntu-bug" when filing a bug against an Ubuntu package.
<Eickmeyer> But, yeah, language barrier, got that.
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <Zachariah> I decided to use Cinnamon to see how I liked it, and it's very fast and I do like it, but (very minor) in the terminal, to increase the screen size you have to press CTRL and Shift with the =/+ key to increase screen size. In all of the applications I've worked with you don't require that.
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <philipz> yes i asked him to file it with 'ubuntu-bug linux', but i guess now that wasn't the right package :D
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <philipz> how do you normally increase it (re @Zachariah: I decided to use Cinnamon to see how I liked it, and it's very fast and I do like it, but (very minor) in the terminal, to increase the screen size you have to press CTRL and Shift with the =/+ key to increase screen size. In all of the applications I've worked with you don't require that.)
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <Zachariah> Just CTRL and =
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <philipz> i see in xfce its ctrl and - and ctrl+shift and =
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <philipz> unfortunately it doesnt work with the numberpad
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <Zachariah> No it doesn't. I tried that, too.
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <Zachariah> In KDE Konsole, CTRL and = works. Same as Chrome, FF, VS Code, etc.
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <philipz> @ItzSwirlz one for you :D (re @Zachariah: I decided to use Cinnamon to see how I liked it, and it's very fast and I do like it, but (very minor) in the terminal, to increase the screen size you have to press CTRL and Shift with the =/+ key to increase screen size. In all of the applications I've worked with you don't require that.)
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <ItzSwirlz> Yay!
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <ItzSwirlz> Later Iâm busy rn
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <ItzSwirlz> All terminal issues is gnome-terminal responsibilit
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <ItzSwirlz> All terminal issues is gnome-terminal responsibility (edited)
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <ItzSwirlz> i dont control that
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <ItzSwirlz> you could probablyl change its settings
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <ItzSwirlz> Oh. Wow you do need to press shift
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <ItzSwirlz> i'll do the bug reporting
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <ItzSwirlz> Bug is present in ubuntu 20.04 too
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <ItzSwirlz> Similar problem with Tilix.
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <ItzSwirlz> Bug #1880346
<ubot5> bug 1880346 in gnome-terminal (Ubuntu) "Zooming in requires Ctrl + Shift + Plus-zoom out doesn't require shift" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1880346
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <ItzSwirlz> Actually wait. False alarm
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <ItzSwirlz> Its +
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <ItzSwirlz> You do need the shift
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <ItzSwirlz> are you sure thats a bug @philipz Zachariah
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <philipz> Zachariah is the one reporting the issue. I was only mentioning how it works in xfce
#ubuntu-quality 2020-05-24
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <Zachariah> I mention it because applications like Chrome, Firefox, VS Code, Konsole and Kate don't require Shift. I was very confused and tried the number pad + until I finally tried Shift. It's extremely inconvenient. @ItzSwirlz I did not think you were in any way responsible. But since I didn't know which terminal app was used in Cinnamon, I brought it up.
<Eickmeyer> @Zachariah Sure, other applications do that, but you can't expect every application, written by different authors, to behave exactly the same way. And knowing how the GNOME devs operate, they'd probably reject the idea that their defaults are in any way wrong and even be offended.
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <Zachariah> So it's the GNOME terminal. Ok. Thanks for clarifying. I just wanted to figure out which module it was and see if it was a known issue.
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <philipz> i plan to submit a bug report for the xfce terminal to improve its handling of this
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <pc> Did a fresh installation of Ubuntu 20.04 LTS
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <pc> Facing an issue and would like your guidance.
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <pc> Steps to re-produce the error:
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <pc> 1) Connect to a hidden WiFi network
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <pc> 2) Restart computer, NetworkManager does not auto-connect
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <pc> 3) As per my understanding, this bug is identified and reported with 1542733
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <pc> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager-applet/+bug/1542733
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1542733 in Network Manager Applet "Connect to Hidden Wi-Fi Network, "Connect" grayed out" [Medium,Confirmed]
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <pc> 4) The workaround which works for me is "nmcli c up id SSID"
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <pc> To avoid applying this workaround everytime after Ubuntu reboot or a router reboot, please advise if there's any fix already made available for Ubuntu 20.04.
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <pc> Thank you in advance.
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn jphilips Eickmeyer requested an apport-collect on bug #1880325
<ubot5> bug 1880325 in linux-meta (Ubuntu) "Intel Wireless Centrino N100 error in Txrate and Bitrate" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1880325
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <pc> Did a fresh installation of Ubuntu 20.04 LTS
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <pc> Facing an issue and would like your guidance.
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <pc> Steps to re-produce the error:
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <pc> 1) Connect to a hidden WiFi network
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <pc> 2) Restart computer, NetworkManager does not auto-connect
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <pc> 3) As per my understanding, this bug is identified and reported with 1542733
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <pc> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager-applet/+bug/1542733
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1542733 in Network Manager Applet "Connect to Hidden Wi-Fi Network, "Connect" grayed out" [Medium,Confirmed]
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <pc> 4) The workaround which works for me is
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <pc> CLI: "nmcli c up id SSID"
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <pc> GUI: Remove SSID from Known Networks and Connect again
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <pc> To avoid applying this workaround everytime after Ubuntu reboot or a router reboot, please advise if there's any fix already made available for Ubuntu 20.04.
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <pc> Thank you in advance. (edited)
<lotuspsychje> @pc: this bug seems to have closed by seb128 and says fix released, is your system up to date?
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <pc> @lotuspsycheje: Yes, Ubuntu 20.04 fresh installation + software update is done and is updated with latest as of May 23rd.
<lotuspsychje> @pc: could you pastebin your dmesg please?
<jphilips> lotuspsychje: i've pinged the bug reported
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <philipz> @Eickmeyer the reporter is getting this error
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <philipz> Forwarded from TomaTuBono: Error :
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <Eickmeyer> That'll happen when you run apport-collect as root. Why is he running it as root? It's meant to be run *as the user*. (re @philipz: )
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <pc> @lotuspsychje Please find the dmesg output just before the workaround command was executed: nmcli c up id SSID
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <pc> https://pastebin.com/Znx8nene
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <philipz> I asked him the same question and he said running it as non-root also resulted in the same error. (re @Eickmeyer: That'll happen when you run apport-collect as root. Why is he running it as root? It's meant to be run *as the user*.)
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <Eickmeyer> @philipz Part of the problem, I see, is that he uses su to change to root which means he's changed the root password. His system is essentially corrupt.
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <Eickmeyer> Ubuntu systems are configured so that one never uses the root account directly.
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <Eickmeyer> If one changes the root password, then it keeps applications, such as apport, from doing correct bug information collection.
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <RikMills> @wimpress mate has no daily images?
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <RikMills> oh, builds are still failing :(
<lotuspsychje> tnx for the ping jphilips
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <MrkiMike> Hi folks. How would one go upgrading from zesty (17.04) to bionic, at least? I can't go to artful (17.10) as it is no longer available, and I'm almost sure that changing zesty->bionic in /etc/apt/sources.list and running apt-get dist-upgrade would just creatre mayhem
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <MrkiMike> old-releases.ubuntu.com ftw
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <MrkiMike> update manager wants to go to bionic as artfull is no longer supported
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <MrkiMike> anyone knows how to trick it into going to artful?
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <Eickmeyer> Not possible, Artful is long-since EOL. The repos are simply not available. (re @MrkiMike: anyone knows how to trick it into going to artful?)
<Eickmeyer> !eolupgrades | @MrkiMike
<ubot5> @MrkiMike: End-Of-Life is when security updates and support for an Ubuntu release stop. Make sure to update Ubuntu before it goes EOL so you get updates promptly for newly-discovered security vulnerabilities. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EOL and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases for more info. Looking to upgrade from an EOL release? See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EOLUpgrades
<Mmike> yup, that EOLUpgrades was last edited on 2018-05-30, so it's almost 2 years old, doesn't mention anything about zesty upgrades
<Eickmeyer> Mmike: Doesn't matter, it covers ALL EOL upgrades.
<Mmike> it doesn't
<Eickmeyer> Yes, it does.
<Mmike> when I run 'do-release-upgrade' it chooses bionic, not artful
<Eickmeyer> Well, you need to follow the instructions.
<Mmike> and it says  that upgrading from zesty to bionic is not possible
<Eickmeyer> Artful is EOL. You CANNOT upgrade to Artful. Period. It's not possible.
<Mmike> you also can't upgrade from zesty to bionic
<Mmike> so, what do I do - reinstall?
<Eickmeyer> You need to go in and edit the sources.list file. That's what that instructs you to do. And if you're not going to do what is being told BY A DEVELOPER (me), then you're just being antagonistic.
<Mmike> Eickmeyer, why do you assume I didn't do what is stated there?
<Mmike> do-release-upgrade is the problem - it tries to upgrade to bionic
<Mmike> which it cant
<Mmike> can't
<Eickmeyer> Then reinstall. Your system is messed-up.
<Mmike> no, the instructions are messed up :)
<Eickmeyer> THis is why you upgrade *before* EOL.
<Mmike> yup, but sometimes you have people who don't do that
<Mmike> I think the "problem" is that https://changelogs.ubuntu.com/meta-release states artful is no go, so it chooses the next possible one which is bionic
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, but they're warned. You were warned. This is YOUR fault, nobody else's. Pay attention to announcements and release lifecycles, and this doesn't happen.
<Eickmeyer> Stop shifting blame.
<Mmike> You're not much of a help, Eickmeyer  :)
<Eickmeyer> You're not taking hep, Mmike
<Eickmeyer> You're just being combative.
<Eickmeyer> You're going to have to reinstall. If you've done everything, that's your last option.
<Mmike> I'm not. You're telling me to do stuff that don't work.
<Mmike> I think there might be one option more.
<Eickmeyer> What's that?
<Mmike> That's why I'm asking is there a way to make do-release-upgrade force upgrade to artful, not to bionic
<Eickmeyer> There isn't.
<Mmike> that's a shame
<Eickmeyer> The repo for artful simply no longer exists.
<Mmike> I'll see if I can make it
<Mmike> it does, come one
<Mmike> what kind of dev are you
<Eickmeyer> No, it doesn't.
<Mmike> Eickmeyer, wanna bet?
<Eickmeyer> !ops
<ubot5> Help! Channel emergency! (ONLY use this trigger in emergencies) - Pici, Myrtti, jrib, Amaranth, tonyyarusso, Nalioth, lamont, CarlK, elky, mneptok, Tm_T, jpds, ikonia, Flannel, wgrant, stdin, h00k, IdleOne, Jordan_U, popey, Corey, ocean, cprofitt, djones, Madpilot, gnomefreak, lhavelund, phunyguy, bazhang, chu, dax
<Mmike> there is old-releases.ubuntu.com which has all the old packages from old repos
<Eickmeyer> The repo for Artful doesn't exist. I don't know how to make that any more clear. It's gone. Archived.
<Mmike> zesty is there, so is artful
<Eickmeyer> You can get the ISO from there, but you CANNOT upgrade to it. Period.
<Eickmeyer> old-release.ubuntu.com exists for archival purposes *only* not as a usable repo.
<Mmike> but it is usable repo and it can be used in situations like this
<Mmike> give me some time and I'll illuminate you
<Eickmeyer> Then do it, but you're on your own. If you knew the answer, then why did you ask?
<Mmike> because I hoped that smart DEVs would have some handy hack up their sleves
<Mmike> Instead of typing 'period' all the time.
<Eickmeyer> And now you're throwing insults.
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <fossfreedom> Mmike: you need to switch your repos as per https://askubuntu.com/questions/91815/how-to-install-software-or-upgrade-from-an-old-unsupported-release
<Mmike> You can safely ignore me, I won't bother you again.
<Eickmeyer> Mmike: This channel is for support. Take support questions to #ubuntu. I never want to see you in this channel again.
<Eickmeyer> *this channel is NOT for support.
<Mmike> ubuntutestingbot, yup, that's what I did, but do-release-upgrade won't play nice. I'll try to see if I can plant my own metadata file.
<Mmike> Eickmeyer, ok, ok, my apologies.
 * Mmike stops talking
<Eickmeyer> Mmike: /part
<Eickmeyer> Please
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <MrkiMike> Yes, Mmike, you are annoying devs! :D
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <Eickmeyer> You have a very similar name. Are you the same person? (re @MrkiMike: Yes, Mmike, you are annoying devs! :D)
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <MrkiMike> Oh, for the love of ....
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <fossfreedom> Time to move on folks. Mmike you have the direction - move your questions to #ubuntu.  Thx
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <MrkiMike> I just did, thnx. (re @fossfreedom: Time to move on folks. Mmike you have the direction - move your questions to #ubuntu.  Thx)
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <MrkiMike> When is Focal going out of 'devel', in regard to do-release-upgrade?
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <MrkiMike> My bionic install (which I upgrade from zesty->artful->bionic) says that there is no 'next release', I had to run d-r-u with -d to get it to upgrade to focal
<ubuntutestingbot> [telegram] <MrkiMike> just tested on this machine too (ubuntumate bionic, fresh installed a year ago), it says there is 'no new release'
<kc2bez> !ltsupgrade
<ubot5> Regular upgrades from 18.04 LTS to 20.04 LTS will be enabled once 20.04.1 is released in late July. This delay helps to ensure that any lingering issues are resolved before people upgrade production systems. If you'd prefer to upgrade now, use sudo do-release-upgrade -d
