#ubuntu-ensemble 2011-05-17
<kim0> Morning everyone
<niemeyer> Good morning everyone!
<niemeyer> jimbaker, bcsaller: Hey there
<niemeyer> Everyone rested? :-)
<bcsaller> niemeyer: hey, dug out an old computer, my fan is seriously broken
<niemeyer> bcsaller: Ouch
<niemeyer> bcsaller: What happened with it?
<bcsaller> I think it failed to suspend properly and in the enclosed space of my backpack the fan melted
<niemeyer> bcsaller: Aw
<bcsaller> very annoyin 
<niemeyer> bcsaller: I did that before
<bcsaller> its a pretty highly integrated part too, I really don't want to have to mail it out, but in the meantime I'm trying to get all the proper software on the old laptop
<niemeyer> bcsaller: I've had to replace the fan in my old thinkpad too.. it didn't melt, but the axis got out of center
<niemeyer> bcsaller: It eventually stopped
<bcsaller> when I can get it to boot it lasts about 10 minutes before a hard shutdown
<SpamapS> hazmat: hey, you're a member of txaws-admins .. could you maybe drop a release of txaws ? Whats blocking just releasing trunk as 0.0.2 ?
<niemeyer> SpamapS: I think the main developers are actually jkakar and Duncan
<niemeyer> SpamapS: Would be worth asking about that
<SpamapS> Definitely
<SpamapS> there's a "discussion list" with an empty archive.. so I guess CC: will be more effective.
<niemeyer> SpamapS: Indeed
#ubuntu-ensemble 2011-05-18
<niemeyer> jimbaker: ping
<jimbaker> at the amazon python day, mix of cloud computing + general language stuff for today
<kim0> niemeyer: howdy Gustavo o/ .. Would you like to do the weekly meeting, or is everyone mostly catching up after uds
<niemeyer> kim0: Up to you.. are you ready to push the meeting forward with interesting content?
<koolhead17> hello all
<kim0> koolhead17: hey :)
<niemeyer> koolhead17: Hey!
<koolhead17> kim0: its official am editing the cobbler wiki, got permission :)
<koolhead17> niemeyer: kim0 hellos :)
<kim0> koolhead17: awesome :) man you should start on ensemble asap too :)
<kim0> there's a lot of editing to be done
<koolhead17> kim0: hopefully soon. i have meething with boss to discuss on the same. and i have ensemble in my mind :)
<kim0> koolhead17: woohoo :) let's take it forward .. let me know if there's anything I can do to help
<koolhead17> kim0: hehe. the beginners guide of yours is there beside you
<kim0> :)
<koolhead17> am happy after so many days i was able to crack cobbler today :D
<koolhead17> how are things here?
<kim0> niemeyer: what about a quick meeting to summarize Ensemble UDS outcome
<kim0> that should make an interesting blog post :)
<niemeyer> kim0: That would be very nice indeed.  Are you ready to present it?
<kim0> Yeah why not .. with your help everything is possible
<koolhead17> cool!!
 * kim0 jumps away for 5 mins
 * koolhead17 waiting 4 the class/discussion to begin :)
<koolhead17> kim0: ahem!! just got the tweet :D 
<niemeyer> kim0: Yeah, I will certainly support you in case you have any doubts
<koolhead17> Daviey: hellos :)
<poolie> niemeyer: <secret handshake> â
<niemeyer> poolie: <handshakes back>
<niemeyer> :-)
<Daviey> koolhead17: hey!
<niemeyer> poolie: Had a good time going home?
<koolhead17> Daviey: thanks for help the other day!! :)
<niemeyer> poolie: Or, a boring time at least? :)
<niemeyer> (/me can't imagine a *good* time cramped in an airplane for hours..)
<koolhead17> niemeyer: your not somewhere in Europe :)
<poolie> i solved this by not going home
<poolie> am in millbank
<poolie> thrashing pqm 
<koolhead17> hi poolie
<niemeyer> poolie: Oh, sweet
<niemeyer> poolie: That's a valid solution
<niemeyer> poolie: lp:lpad
<poolie> mm, it's an interim solution
<poolie> i know!
<poolie> i am so excited about it 
<poolie> i will eventually send you bug fixes too
<niemeyer> poolie: Oh, sweet
<kim0> niemeyer: starting the meeting
<niemeyer> poolie: I spent the day covering most of the use cases with changes
<poolie> you might like to read https://lists.launchpad.net/launchpad-dev/msg07091.html  too
<niemeyer> kim0: Go! Go! Go!
<poolie> just generally, and also i wonder if ensemble/orchestra ought to play a role
<niemeyer> poolie: The missing piece now is POSTing
<niemeyer> poolie: I mean.. it works already.. just need to add in a model type to see how it fits
<niemeyer> poolie: I was trying to support AddIRCNick.. but turns out the API doesn't allow that yet
<niemeyer> Will look for other boring use case which allows exercising that kind of logic
<niemeyer> Then, we just have to extend the API to support all 300 types
<niemeyer> :-)
<poolie> mm there was some little trick i noticed
<poolie> sholud have fixed it at the time
<niemeyer> poolie: Have you seen the changes as of today?
<niemeyer> http://goneat.org/pkg/launchpad.net/lpad/
<niemeyer> poolie: The Resource interface is significantly more interesting, and Set* methods + Patch actually works!
<poolie> not yet, will pull it
<niemeyer> kim0: Good job, thank you!
<kim0> great .. will formulate as a post tomorrow and blog it too
<kim0> @everyone .. enjoy recovering from UDS :)
<koolhead17> hahaha
 * koolhead17 is trying to get munin alarts on a particular irc channel 
<poolie> niemeyer: one thing is that it would be good if it generated new-style tokens 
<poolie> which can be date-limited
<niemeyer> poolie: Hmm.. tell me more about that
<poolie> hm
<poolie> so new launchpadlib asks for apparently some different type of token
<poolie> called 'desktop integration'
<poolie> which is more appropriate for local clients
<poolie> rather than delegation to web sites
<poolie> so they are fully trusted
<poolie> but you can say 'trust forever, 1 week, etc'
<poolie> thosethings ought to be orthogonal
<niemeyer> poolie: That sounds quite interesting indeed
<niemeyer> poolie: Any pointers to docs or something similar?
<poolie> astonishingly yes
<poolie> https://help.launchpad.net/API/ThirdPartyIntegration
<niemeyer> poolie: Hah, fantastic
<niemeyer> Hmm.. or almost
<niemeyer> This seems to document from the perspective of the user
<niemeyer> poolie: Handling iteration over mixed people and teams now.. interesting to design
 * niemeyer steps out for some time.. back later
#ubuntu-ensemble 2011-05-19
<kim0> Morning everyone
<niemeyer> Buenos dias!
<kim0> Buenos dias amigos :)
<niemeyer> kim0: Que tal? :-)
<kim0> :)
<ahasenack> were you guys thinking about doing some presentation at Brazil's FISL?
<niemeyer> ahasenack: It's a good question
<niemeyer> ahasenack: It'd be quite handy
<niemeyer> ahasenack: It seems to overlap with the platform sprint, though :(
<jimbaker`> kim0, niemeyer - morning!
<kim0> jimbaker`: o/ hey
<jimbaker`> my talk at amazon went well
<jimbaker`> i actually had a chance to explain ensemble to guido van rossum
<kim0> jimbaker`: woohoo! sounds cool
<jimbaker`> fwiw, he immediately made the connection to apparently a similar internal orchestration system used at google
<kim0> jimbaker`: I suppose he didn't really reveal any interesting info about that system
<jimbaker`> kim0, i'm afraid not ;)
<kim0> yeah hehe
<koolhead17> hi all
<koolhead17> kim0: am yet to get the approval from eucalyptus website
<koolhead17> jimbaker`: waoo
<koolhead17> niemeyer: hi
<kim0> koolhead17: #ubuntu-cloud and bug obino (he's from eucalyptus systems) :)
<koolhead17> kim0: am there :P
<kim0> :) I notice
<koolhead17> haha
<_mup_> ensemble/expose-service-watch r228 committed by jim.baker@canonical.com
<_mup_> Merged trunk
<niemeyer> jimbaker`: Morning
<jimbaker`> niemeyer, morning
<niemeyer> koolhead17: Hey
<niemeyer> jimbaker`: So, expose now?
<jimbaker`> niemeyer, indeed
<niemeyer> jimbaker`: Ok, so as we discussed before UDS, the plan is to split it up in reasonable sized branches?
<jimbaker`> niemeyer, exactly
<niemeyer> jimbaker`: Ok.. can you please file bugs for the actual in progress branches as you go, and ensure https://ensemble.ubuntu.com/kanban/dublin.html reflects real activity?
<jimbaker`> so i have branches for the machine's service units, watching a service, managing the open ports node
<jimbaker`> for example
* niemeyer changed the topic of #ubuntu-ensemble to: Milestone: http://ensemble.ubuntu.com/kanban/dublin.html | Docs: http://j.mp/ensemble-docs | Classroom chat: http://j.mp/en2vPH
<jimbaker`> niemeyer, i will update that accordingly
<niemeyer> jimbaker`: Thanks
<niemeyer> rog: Welcome
<rog> niemeyer: hi! thanks.
* niemeyer changed the topic of #ubuntu-ensemble to: http://ensemble.ubuntu.com/kanban/dublin.html | http://ensemble.ubuntu.com/docs
<niemeyer> On my end I'm pushing the lpad Launchpad library for Go still.. good progress there
<rog> is there a link somewhere?
<niemeyer> rog: Yeah.. it's not the latest stuff, but there's some good info here already:
<niemeyer> http://goneat.org/lp/lpad
<niemeyer> rog: This is almost complete in terms of the patterns we have to cover
<niemeyer> rog: But the API is quite extensive, so there's some good work to get it all in place
<niemeyer> rog: I'm actually planning to send golang-nuts a mail once I finish the details I'm working on right now
<niemeyer> Asking for help
<niemeyer> rog: a hand there would be welcome
<rog> how's launchpad used within the context of ensemble?
<niemeyer> rog: We'll back formulas there
<niemeyer> rog: Source branches with the formula content
<rog> seems sensible
<niemeyer> rog: and will interact with Launchpad from the formula repository (Go)
<rog> (unless it becomes a bottleneck, of course)
<niemeyer> rog: That's not an issue.. is a concern for a long time
<niemeyer> rog: Erm
<niemeyer> rog: That's not an issue.. scalability is a concern for a long time
<niemeyer> rog: The design of that API is two-layered
 * rog loves the Go style of documentation
<niemeyer> rog: There's a dynamic API in the bottom, which can do anything with Launchpad
<niemeyer> rog: But is not ideal in terms of typing and documentation
<niemeyer> rog: then, there's a static "model" layer which actually knows about which objects support which operations etc
<niemeyer> rog: Which is more convenient to use
<niemeyer> rog: IRCNick there is an example
<niemeyer> rog: The Resource interface is the dynamic part
<rog> i'd just realised that
<rog> (not quite at the bottom on the doc page :-])
<niemeyer> rog: As you can see, every model object is actually just a wrapper to Resource, which knows specifics about the given type
<rog> i wasn't joking about liking go docs. it's just great to have it all in one place with links to the source.
<niemeyer> rog: I'm now implementing an example of iteration over a list and custom operations in the model
<niemeyer> rog: True!
<niemeyer> rog: Once I finish this, I think we have all patterns covered, and just need to extend it to cover the whole API
<rog> no inheritance! i've been dealing with some mac os objective C docs recently and the documentation is all over the place.
<niemeyer> rog: Indeed!
<rog> you don't describe what you mean by a "model"
<niemeyer> rog: It's also cool because a Person wraps a Resource, and is *also* a Resource itself
<niemeyer> rog: The model is the static layer
<niemeyer> rog: Resource is the dynamic one
<niemeyer> rog: So, e.g. IRCNick is part of the model
<niemeyer> rog: I realize it's just specialization of generic terminology, but I guess it fits reasonably well in this case
<rog> i'm not quite sure what you mean by the name "model" in this context
<niemeyer> rog: IRCNick is part of the Launchpad object model
<niemeyer> rog: Resource is lower level generic REST
<rog> ah, so they're kinda of objects
<niemeyer> rog: Yeah.. or types if you're into Go ;-)
<rog> yeah
<niemeyer> rog: This has the full Launchpad API docs:
<niemeyer> https://launchpad.net/+apidoc/1.0.html
<niemeyer> rog: This is the IRCNick backing, for the sake of understanding:
<niemeyer> https://launchpad.net/+apidoc/1.0.html#irc_id
 * rog didn't know about http PATCH methods
<rog> i think maybe Entity might be a better name than Model
<rog> Model implies it's modelling something - i found it a bit confusing
<niemeyer> rog: The model is composed of entities
<rog> but maybe i'm just not into the REST thing enough :-)
<niemeyer> rog: I'm not sure it's related to REST.. the name just sounded generic enough and not too far off, so criticism accepted.
<rog> niemeyer: so there's more than one entity represented by a Resource?
<niemeyer> rog: Every type in the model is actually a Resource..
<niemeyer> rog: More simply, you can think of a Resource as a JSON blob which is seen in a given URL
<rog> that's what i thought
<niemeyer> rog: But specific URLs will return the same "kind" of JSON blob
<rog> yeah
<niemeyer> rog: This may be helpful as well:
<niemeyer> https://help.launchpad.net/API/Hacking
<rog> Resource is fine, i think, but i think you could probably get rid of all instances of the term "model"
<rog> i don't think it helps
<niemeyer> rog: I'm fine with that
<niemeyer> rog: But we'll need something else to put in its place :)
<rog> e.g. // NewResource creates a new resource type.  Creating resources explicitly
<rog> / is generally not necessary.  If you're trying to access a location in
<rog> / the Launchpad API which doesn't have a dedicated type yet,
<rog> / Link and Location methods on the Resource interface for more convenient
<rog> / ways to create resources.
<rog> i think "dedicated type" may be better than "static model"
<rog> i like the idea anyway
<rog> that's strange, why is the doc for Root.Me not next to the Root type
<rog> ?
<niemeyer> rog: Hmm.. it is?
<niemeyer> rog: Regarding the term, I don't expect we'll be talking to people about that either way.. it's more about the internal organization than about how we'll expose it
<niemeyer> rog, jimbaker, robbiew: I need to run an errand.. will be back to finish that stuff in ~1h
<robbiew> ack
<niemeyer> biab
<rog> niemeyer: i was just talking from the point of view of understanding that package on its own. i think the API is pretty good - just that bit confused me.
<_mup_> ensemble/expose-open-ports-node r227 committed by jim.baker@canonical.com
<_mup_> Initial commit
<_mup_> ensemble/expose-open-ports-node r228 committed by jim.baker@canonical.com
<_mup_> Merged trunk
<koolhead17> i have eucalyptus account now. kim0 next step please sir!! :)
<kim0> koolhead17: hey .. that's cool
<kim0> koolhead17: I guess the next step would be to make sure you can launch instances using euca-xxx tools
<kim0> koolhead17: once that's ok, we'll try to use ensemble to launch those instances
<kim0> for that, we'll need some help from devs here
<koolhead17> okey.
 * koolhead17 goes back to read eucalyptus beginners guide!!
<_mup_> Bug #785343 was filed: Expose needs support for watching services and service units <Ensemble:In Progress by jimbaker> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/785343 >
<_mup_> Bug #785344 was filed: Expose needs to be able to retrieve service units for a machine <Ensemble:In Progress by jimbaker> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/785344 >
<_mup_> Bug #785352 was filed: Expose needs support for managing a service unit's open ports <Ensemble:In Progress by jimbaker> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/785352 >
<_mup_> ensemble/expose-open-ports-node r229 committed by jim.baker@canonical.com
<_mup_> Doc strings
<_mup_> ensemble/expose-open-ports-node r230 committed by jim.baker@canonical.com
<_mup_> PEP8
<_mup_> ensemble/expose-open-ports-node r231 committed by jim.baker@canonical.com
<_mup_> Missing doc string
<_mup_> ensemble/expose-service-watch r229 committed by jim.baker@canonical.com
<_mup_> Removed sleeps
<_mup_> ensemble/expose-machine-service-units r228 committed by jim.baker@canonical.com
<_mup_> Tests
<_mup_> ensemble/expose-machine-service-units r229 committed by jim.baker@canonical.com
<_mup_> PEP8
<_mup_> ensemble/expose-machine-service-units r230 committed by jim.baker@canonical.com
<_mup_> Merged trunk
<_mup_> ensemble/expose-machine-service-units r231 committed by jim.baker@canonical.com
<_mup_> Better comments
 * niemeyer waves
<jimbaker`> niemeyer, http://ensemble.ubuntu.com/kanban/dublin.html is not updating
<niemeyer> jimbaker`: Let me look at that
<jimbaker`> niemeyer, also, do you want to have a standup today?
<niemeyer> jimbaker`: Hmm.. not sure.. probably not unless you'd like to talk about something about the expose/unexpose support
<jimbaker`> niemeyer, no, i think everything is going well on that plan
<jimbaker`> i just submitted 3 supporting branches for review per earlier discussion
<jimbaker`> the only thing that took time was making sure i got the sleep removal aspects solid, so i carefully looked through those tests
<niemeyer> jimbaker`: Sounds great.. I'll have a look through those as soon as I manage to finish the broken test I have
<niemeyer> jimbaker`: Hmm
<niemeyer> jimbaker`: Ok
<niemeyer> Actually, let me sort out the kanban first
<niemeyer> rog: Btw, I forgot to mention MVC.. that's why I think model is suitable for the concept: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model%E2%80%93view%E2%80%93controller
<rog> niemeyer: yeah, i know about MVC but i think it's too abstract to be useful as a description here
<niemeyer> rog: It's exactly the same idea I think
<rog> the thing is, i don't think there's a need to invoke the name - there's no type that represents it.
<niemeyer> rog: Agreed
<niemeyer> rog: It's just useful as a high-level description of package organization really
<rog> i don't think you need it. when you say "static model" you could say "dedicated type" or something similar and it would be more comprehensible i think
<rog> using "model" only makes sense if you've couched the whole thing in terms of MVC, which you haven't
<rog> AFAICS you've got a general purpose type (Resource) and a number of special-purpose types which layer on it
<niemeyer> rog: The domain model of an application/library/whatever is a well understood concept I think.. but either way, this is all pretty irrelevant in the big picture
<rog> those don't even need to be static types BTW
<rog> sure, i just found that it made the docs for that package a bit hard to understand ("what does that term mean here?")
<niemeyer> rog: Sure, we can avoid using the term in the docs
<rog> 'cos in essence it's pretty simple and nice - it'd be nice if that could shine though!
<niemeyer> Hah, sweet, problem fixed
 * niemeyer does some real interactions with Launchpad
<niemeyer> Burn Launchpad CPU, burn..
<niemeyer> "Had 5732 results, iterated over 5732.".. good
<niemeyer> Alright!
<niemeyer> Iteration works, new lpad pushed
<niemeyer> rog: Check out FindMembers/FindPeople/FindTeams, if you're curious
<niemeyer> That's the good news..
<niemeyer> jimbaker`: The bad news is I won't get to your branches today
<niemeyer> jimbaker`: But please keep pushing this stuff
<jimbaker`> niemeyer, not a problem
<niemeyer> robbiew: Very cool, +1!
<robbiew> huh..what?
<niemeyer_> Ok, I need a nap.. I'll see y'all later/tomorrow
<jimbaker`> niemeyer_, take care!
#ubuntu-ensemble 2011-05-20
<niemeyer> Hey there
<wrtp> test
<niemeyer> Good mornings
<koolhead17> hi all
<koolhead17> kim0: now can say it officially :) ^o^
<kim0> koolhead17: hey :)
<kim0> koolhead17: so what's up
<koolhead17> yes i can officially work on it !! :)
<kim0> koolhead17: Ensemble ?
<koolhead17> its yeah :)
<kim0> hhee cool :)
<kim0> rock n roll
<koolhead17> its in my TODO now
<kim0> koolhead17: so what do you plan to do 
<koolhead17> kim0: eucalyptus support 4 ensemble
<kim0> awesome
<koolhead17> :)
<koolhead17> hey TeTeT
<TeTeT> hi koolhead17 
<niemeyer> koolhead17: Wow, sweet
<kim0> niemeyer: koolhead17 will probably need some assistance on pointing ensemble to use a euca cloud
<koolhead17> TeTeT: i found one more issue in cobbler and asked a question on launchpad mentioning the dirty solution for the same :D  thanks 2 you
<koolhead17> hey niemeyer :)
<TeTeT> koolhead17: haven't done anything but chatting, nevermind nevertheless ;)
<TeTeT> koolhead17: if you get ensemble with UEC going, let me know, I'm interested in that as well
<koolhead17> TeTeT: sure. am n00b for Amazon stuff so would love to see magic via euca tools on eucalyptus
<kim0> TeTeT: don't worry, I'll keep pushing koolhead17 till he gets it running :P
<TeTeT> kim0: thx ;)
<niemeyer> kim0: That sounds good
<niemeyer> koolhead17: Making it work well with the euca cloud may actually be your first major task :)
<niemeyer> koolhead17: There are no big reasons why this shouldn't work, but it's a different software backing it, so minor incompatibilities are expected.
<koolhead17> niemeyer: am still a python n00b. 
<niemeyer> koolhead17: We work mostly with the "real" EC2
<niemeyer> koolhead17: Me too
<kim0> koolhead17 just mentioned he's refreshing info on eucalyptus first .. so it might be a bit too early
<kim0> me smiles
<niemeyer> koolhead17: There's only one way to learn anything..
<koolhead17> and it is? :)
<niemeyer> koolhead17: Doing it
<koolhead17> niemeyer: +1
<kim0> koolhead17: I'd want to refresh my python too .. I'd love to work with you on that
<kim0> koolhead17: I don't really think you need much brushing up on eucalytpus .. :)
<kim0> koolhead17: when you feel ready . ping me
<koolhead17> kim0: hmm
<niemeyer> koolhead17: If you don't mind, please pay attention to the areas of the documentation you find lacking
<koolhead17> sure will do that niemeyer
<niemeyer> koolhead17: Or confusing
<kim0> niemeyer: I suppose we'd need to edit some ensemble configs to point it to euca ?
<niemeyer> koolhead17: The first read is a great moment to catch stuff that makes no sense, or is incomplete
<kim0> or is it just the ec2 env vars
<niemeyer> kim0: That's right
<niemeyer> ahasenack has done it before, and may even be able to provide some further guidelines
<niemeyer> kim0: Yes, ec2_uri and s3_uri
<kim0> ah cool
<niemeyer> IIRC, there's a bug ahasenack mentioned related to the machine size
<niemeyer> Since Euca has a different concept of machine size
<ahasenack> I don't think it will work because of the txaws bug
<ahasenack> and you have to change a line in ensemble because it expects an amazon region, and "Eucalyptus" isn't one
<niemeyer> ahasenack: Ah, that's it
<niemeyer> koolhead17: It might actually be less frustrating for you to start with the "real" EC2
<niemeyer> koolhead17: Stumbling upon those bugs from very early on may be a bit boring
<koolhead17> niemeyer: i don`t have amazon account and i dont have Credit Card 4 there free account :(
<ahasenack> kim0: I started with this: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/610642/
<kim0> ahasenack: thanks man!
<kim0> koolhead17: ^
<ahasenack> kim0: but there is a bug in txaws, let me get the number
<ahasenack> kim0: https://bugs.launchpad.net/txaws/+bug/782375
<_mup_> Bug #782375: URLContext() loses port and path from service endpoint <txAWS:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/782375 >
<niemeyer> koolhead17: Hmm
<ahasenack> kim0: and you need to hack the eucalyptus region in like this: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/610643/
<niemeyer> ahasenack: Have you ever tried to use Ensemble through cloud deck?
<ahasenack> niemeyer: no
<niemeyer> koolhead17: I may find a way to fix that.. but keep going with Euca for the moment
<ahasenack> kim0: even after I locally fixed the txaws bug, though, I got another error about wrong signature, so I stopped there. I assumed I did something wrong in my local fix
<kim0> ahasenack: wow, thanks a million!
<koolhead17> yes sure niemeyer
<kim0> koolhead17: please check the awesome info ahasenack just mentioned :)
<koolhead17> kim0: yes checkin it :)
<niemeyer> http://aws.typepad.com/aws/2011/05/identity-and-access-management-console-support.html
<niemeyer> Handy
<niemeyer> obino: Hey!
<obino> hello niemeyer!
<obino> how was your trip?
<niemeyer> obino: Long and boring, as long flights should be :-)
<niemeyer> obino: We were just pondering about integration with Euca
<niemeyer> obino: I guess we have a few extra steps still to make it work smoothly
<obino> tell me more :)
<niemeyer> obino: The issues are mostly on our side
<niemeyer> obino: We've provided pre-defined regions and machine sizes, and we'll have to relax that a bit for Euca
<obino> ok
<obino> got it
<obino> did you get access to the ECC? Are you testing against it?
<koolhead17> obino: hey
<niemeyer> obino: koolhead17 got it, and ahasenack tried too
<obino> hello koolhead17
<ahasenack> niemeyer: quick question, I have an environments.yaml with two environments, one marked as default, yet ensemble tried to bootstrap both, is that expected? Let me paste
<ahasenack> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/610645/
<niemeyer> ahasenack: No, that's a bug..
<ahasenack> it went through sample, and then canonicloud
<ahasenack> ok
<niemeyer> ahasenack: Yeah, config looks good.. it shouldn't try to do anything on both at the same time
<obino> niemeyer: koolhead17: let me know if you run into issues. I'll try to be around this channel too.
<niemeyer> obino: Superb, thanks
<koolhead17> obino: awesome :)
<ahasenack> niemeyer: well, not at the same time, but in the same run/bootstrap command. One, then the other
<ahasenack> but ok
<niemeyer> koolhead17: There you go.. now you have another reason to try fixing support for Euca ;)
<ahasenack> I think you got that
<obino> I will be traveling from tomorrow morning till sat night, but I will be online starting from sun (PDT)
<niemeyer> ahasenack: Yeah
<koolhead17> niemeyer: i would love to :D euca ++
<niemeyer> obino: Cool, thanks for your attention
<obino> np: I would love to see euca support too :)
<obino> when you have something running let me know!
 * ahasenack -> lunch
<niemeyer> ahasenack: Enjoy
<niemeyer> obino: Will do
<niemeyer> obino: We've been walking towards it
<obino> niemeyer: :)
<niemeyer> ahasenack: Interesting.. apparently IAM in AWS doesn't actually solve the issues Cloud Deck does
<niemeyer> bcsaller: Mornign
<niemeyer> bcsaller: Feeling better?
<bcsaller> niemeyer: yeah, thanks
<niemeyer> bcsaller: Glad to hear it
* niemeyer changed the topic of #ubuntu-ensemble to: http://j.mp/ensemble-dublin | http://ensemble.ubuntu.com/docs
<niemeyer> jimbaker: The kanban is "fixed"
<niemeyer> I'm building at people.canonical.com since it's taking a while for IS to fix the scheduling of it
<kim0> obino: I just registered an account with username kim0 .. Would be great if you can approve it before flying .. thanks :)
<koolhead17> kim0: :P
<kim0> hehe :)
 * niemeyer => lunch
<_mup_> ensemble/expose-provision-service-hierarchy r232 committed by jim.baker@canonical.com
<_mup_> Observer callbacks for watching service units in tests
<obino> kim0: did you apply for the ECC? I saw your account on the forum (web site) but not the ECC
<kim0> obino: hmm no I didn't, where do I apply
<kim0> obino: It does say, simply click on the "Apply" for account link .. but I couldn't find that
<kim0> all I got was a login box
<jimbaker> i need to take my puppy to the vet to take care of an eye infection in a few minutes
<obino> kim0: can you try again? Go to ecc.eucalyptus.com
<obino> there should be an apply link
<obino> andrew will approve your account as soon as you apply :)
<koolhead17> kim0: heh
 * koolhead17 wants to know if anyone from Berlin here?
<koolhead17> kim0: cool. i can see the blog ^^
 * niemeyer waves
<koolhead17> niemeyer: done with luch?
<koolhead17> *lunch
 * koolhead17 rushes 4 dinner :P
<niemeyer> koolhead17: Yeah, good stuff ;)
<niemeyer> koolhead17: Enjoy
<kim0> obino: thanks .. just did it
<obino> kim0: you should be approved. Check the spam folder for the approval email
<obino> sadly that's where it ends up most of the time :(
<niemeyer> jimbaker: The documentation for expose/unexpose doesn't seem to be formatted properly in terms of headers
<niemeyer> jimbaker: It's showing twice under Drafts
<SpamapS> Hi everybody. :) Whats the status of the LXC machine provider?
<SpamapS> btw, formula upgrades are *awesome* :)
<niemeyer> SpamapS: Yo
<niemeyer> SpamapS: Sweet!
<niemeyer> jimbaker: This is ready: https://code.launchpad.net/~jimbaker/ensemble/expose-open-ports-node/+merge/61646
<niemeyer> jimbaker: For being worked on
<niemeyer> SpamapS: Have you been playing with it?
<SpamapS> niemeyer: when applicable, I use upgrades to iterate on hook dev.
<niemeyer> SpamapS: Nice
<niemeyer> SpamapS: LXC has been evolving in our minds and in conversations with the LXC team
<SpamapS> which is also good for testing the idempotency of my hook scripts
<niemeyer> SpamapS: It's likely going to be the key feature for the milestone after the current one
<niemeyer> SpamapS: Indeed
<SpamapS> niemeyer: seems to me there is a bit of a challenge in providing a single s3-like place for the machine map
<niemeyer> SpamapS: Yeah, but we should be able to workaround it somehow
<niemeyer> SpamapS: We actually just need a place we can address for discovering the seeds
<niemeyer> SpamapS: We might even use a local map
<niemeyer> SpamapS: The real information is actually within the environment itself
<niemeyer> SpamapS: Hmmm.. we actually store the formulas themselves there as well ATM
<niemeyer> SpamapS: This is something I'd eventually like to kill
<niemeyer> SpamapS: and have everything with the env itself
<niemeyer> SpamapS: So it doesn't matter if we're using EC2, Rackspace, LXC, or whatever, the environment is even
<SpamapS> I don't really know what you mean when you say "the environment" in this context.
<SpamapS> niemeyer: also my mind keeps coming back to storage management.. that we're glossing over it a bit too much and should start to think about how to handle complex storage requirements...
<niemeyer> SpamapS: "the environment" == "the machines which are part of a machine provider and assigned to be managed by Ensemble"
<SpamapS> Like, there are some really good chef cookbooks for EBS+RAID .. you just throw in a call to them in your current recipe and viola.. /srv is on a RAID5 w/ 10 EBS volumes.
<SpamapS> In order to duplicate that.. we have to monkey it into the install hook and we don't want to be making any cloud-specific calls in hooks.
<niemeyer> SpamapS: Yeah, we'll certainly want to support more fine grained storage requirements
<niemeyer> SpamapS: Indeed.. this is really a task for Ensemble itself.. it should work irrespective of the formula
<SpamapS> I was just thinking that environments should be able to define storage pools. Libvirt has a lot of capability in this regard that can be studied for ideas.
<niemeyer> SpamapS: Agreed.  We discussed these ideas in the very first planning sprint of Ensemble.. we'll eventually get there
<niemeyer> SpamapS: The next sprint will likely be more focused on the tasks for the current milestone, which is most importantly stabilizing what we've got for usage
<niemeyer> SpamapS: After that, we should probably have another technical sprint to debate such idas
<niemeyer> ideas
<SpamapS> Yeah thats bolt-on refinement, we're still missing settings and containers.. two things I'm quite eager to play with.
<niemeyer> SpamapS: Settings are mostly there
<niemeyer> SpamapS: bcsaller should have them in review any minute now!
 * niemeyer looks at bcsaller
<SpamapS> sweeeet
<jimbaker> back from the vet
<SpamapS> niemeyer: another thing that I'm still not sure about. If my system detects a change that ensemble needs to know about.. is there a way to do that?
<SpamapS> niemeyer: for instance, if my IP changes.
<niemeyer> SpamapS: In an intereview, but will be you with you in a sec
<niemeyer> SpamapS: So yeah, we need a way to call the ensemble tools out of band
<niemeyer> SpamapS: out-of-band as in, not within a hook
<niemeyer> SpamapS: There's actually no intrinsic reason why this shouldn't work.. we just need to tweak them so they work
<SpamapS> niemeyer: basically just need to have the socket env right?
<niemeyer> SpamapS: Yeah
<niemeyer> SpamapS: and some internals sorted out
<niemeyer> SpamapS: We currently have a "cache" for changes
<niemeyer> SpamapS: So that everything is committed at the end
<SpamapS> niemeyer: I'm struggling to find real world use cases though.. I think in most cases the only thing I'd want to be able to do would be to remove myself from the service temporarily.
<niemeyer> SpamapS: This won't make sense for those out-of-band requests
<niemeyer> SpamapS: Yeah, the use cases will likely be related to external events
<SpamapS> niemeyer: most services will handle this on their own, they won't need reconfiguration tho.. so.. yeah, I don't think its all that necessary right now.
<niemeyer> kim0: Thanks for the post!
<niemeyer> kim0: As a minor, can you please tweak the doc link to point to the new location?
<niemeyer> kim0: Having LXC for the 11.10 cycle is a bit optimistic as well, btw :)
 * SpamapS will do anything he can do help w/ LXC ASAP :)
<SpamapS> As fast as t1.micro's spawn ... LXC containers would spawn faster. :)
<niemeyer> SpamapS: True.  It'd certainly be cool to have it sooner.
<niemeyer> bcsaller: Are you off today as well?
<bcsaller> niemeyer: no, working
<bcsaller> things are a little slow as I'm still on my old laptop
<niemeyer> bcsaller: Cool
<niemeyer> bcsaller: Do you have any comments on kapil's input about config-set?
<bcsaller> niemeyer: did you ever get a chance to look at the branch in review or are you waiting for the last one
<bcsaller> niemeyer: I made those changes, yes
<bcsaller> but I think only in the latest branch
<niemeyer> bcsaller: Can you please update the merge proposal with your feeling about what he said and whether you have pushed new changes or not?
<bcsaller> ahh, ok
<niemeyer> Otherwise it feels like a monologue
<niemeyer> bcsaller: Thanks
<niemeyer> Everything moved to the dublin milestone
<niemeyer> Fading a bit here.. will step out for a while
#ubuntu-ensemble 2011-05-21
<kim0> niemeyer: notes applied .. thanks 
<niemeyer> kim0: np!
<kim0> I hope I can read up more on bitcoin this weekend :)
<_mup_> ensemble/expose-open-ports-node r232 committed by jim.baker@canonical.com
<_mup_> Addressed review comments
<_mup_> ensemble/expose-open-ports-node r233 committed by jim.baker@canonical.com
<_mup_> Use immutable tuple instead of list
<_mup_> ensemble/trunk r228 committed by jim.baker@canonical.com
<_mup_> merged expose-open-ports-node [r=niemeyer][f=785352]
<_mup_> Implements support for managing the open ports for a service unit.
<_mup_> ensemble/expose-machine-service-units r232 committed by jim.baker@canonical.com
<_mup_> Use topology to retrieve service name, unit sequence instead of private method
<_mup_> ensemble/expose-machine-service-units r233 committed by jim.baker@canonical.com
<_mup_> Reworked naming and add helper method (add_service) to avoid having to split lines in tests
<_mup_> ensemble/expose-service-watch r231 committed by jim.baker@canonical.com
<_mup_> Addressed review points
<_mup_> ensemble/expose-service-watch r232 committed by jim.baker@canonical.com
<_mup_> Removed inadvertent fix for watch_exposed_flag
