#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-04-04
<jrwren> omg, the window management is just excellent.  the ctrl-alt numpad and ctrl-alt-(shift)left/right
<jcastro> yeah
<jcastro> I keep telling people it has advanced stuff
<jcastro> they just don't like that it's missing what they consider advanced
<jrwren> i know rick_h_ thinks it blase, but IMO it is great.
<jcastro> heh
<jcastro> rick is content in tiling land
<jcastro> which is totally fine
<jcastro> just not for me
<jrwren> the ctrl-alt numpad stuff just feels perfect to me.
<jcastro> http://i.imgur.com/zw1kh.jpg
<jcastro> we've actually had that feature for like 3 years
<jcastro> just never turned it on!
<jrwren> lolz
<jrwren> lolz to the image too
<jrwren> ok, so i can configure "broadcast accounts" but what do I use to read and post to them? (twitter)
<jcastro> gwibber
<jcastro> or "social network" or something like that
<jcastro> dunno, I use seesmic
<jcastro> seesmic web ftw
<jrwren> that works great. ty.
<jrwren> impressive, you triaged it last july.  good memory!
<jcastro> ah!
<jcastro> you can shut off the global menu for certain apps
<jcastro> as a workaround
<jcastro> actually, we do that for the one in the archive iirc
<jrwren> is there a way I can view the source of this patch on the web? https://bugs.launchpad.net/dbusmenu/+bug/606470/comments/3
<jcastro> http://askubuntu.com/questions/6784/is-it-possible-to-make-indicator-appmenu-ignore-a-specific-application
<jcastro> yeah, one sec
<jrwren> who can I tell that the svn url here https://code.launchpad.net/monodevelop is wrong... its actually http://github.com/mono/monodevelop now instead of that svn url
<jcastro> oh, I can change that actually
<jcastro> jrwren: can you ask about the monodevelop patch on askubuntu?
<jcastro> I'd like to just start building up the info there
<jcastro> whilst I fix this URL
<jrwren> sounds good
<jrwren> i'll bet teh workaround works.
<jcastro> it does
<jcastro> we have the same issue with like eclipse
<jcastro> programs that generate dynamic menus (like IDEs) are problematic unfortunately
<jrwren> http://askubuntu.com/questions/33384/how-can-i-see-the-monodevelop-patch-in-bug606470
<jrwren> i tried to tag with monodevelop and UBUNTU_MENUPROXY but I dont' have the rep for new tags
<jcastro> I'll tag it right
<jrwren> so the monodevelop.in file just generates the menushortcut eh? hrm... i sure would like a more general fix.
<jrwren> What is the recommendation? will the menu proxy support dynamic menus eventually?
<jrwren> libappmenu... i'll check out their bugs and discussions on dynamic menus
<jrwren> thanks for the help jcastro
<jcastro> I am not sure
<jcastro> outside of the patch and bug workflow we're in your neck of the woods.
<jcastro> jrwren: found it
<jcastro> and answered
<jjesse> anchorman is perhaps the greatest movie ever, nuff said
<snap-l> jjesse: I completely disagree with the Anchorman assessment. :)
<jjesse> really?
<jjesse> love that movie
<jjesse> talledega nights is a close 2nd
<snap-l> Gooooood eeeevening
<greg-g> holy crap: https://ftbeowulf.wordpress.com/2011/04/03/disapointment-in-rochester/
<greg-g> that sucks
<greg-g> he put a lot of effort into that, it looks like
<snap-l> Oh man, that sucks.
<rick_h_> yea, ouch
<snap-l> http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/team/58/detail/
<greg-g> why hello there!
<greg-g> meeting time!
<snap-l> Long time no see. :)
<snap-l> I think the West MI folks might not be as well represented.
* greg-g changed the topic of #ubuntu-us-mi to: Michigan LoCo | Wiki: http://ur1.ca/33fhq | LP: http://ur1.ca/33fhw | MailingList: http://ur1.ca/33fhy | Check out MUG: http://www.mug.org and CHC: http://ur1.ca/33fin | Michigan Repository Mirror at OU: http://ubuntu.secs.oakland.edu/ | This channel is now logged at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/
<greg-g> yeah, :/
<snap-l> I'm kinda upset at the host at ABC
<greg-g> yeah, me too, not the best way to deal with that situation
<greg-g> he was one of those "but I must follow every rule blindly"
<greg-g> oh well
<snap-l> And the Blue Tractor was packed as well with an hour wait
<greg-g> geez
<snap-l> Apparently AA was bumpin'
<greg-g> sorry about that guys
<snap-l> np
<snap-l> not your fault
<snap-l> I blame the rest of AA. :)
<greg-g> haha
<greg-g> so, yeah, meeting....
<snap-l> So, first up: Natty Release Party is on
<snap-l> Penguicon, Friday, 7pm
<greg-g> rock
<snap-l> Be there, or don't.
<rick_h_> woot
<greg-g> awesome. Thanks for taking the lead on that one
<snap-l> I think next year we might want to look into a room party
<greg-g> that's always fun
<snap-l> there's nothing official about the release party, so if the bar is full, we're SOL
<greg-g> right right :/
<snap-l> I asked about putting it in the program, but since it's not in an official space, no program mention
<greg-g> gotcha
<snap-l> The bar is rennovated, so it may be a little more spacious
<greg-g> oh, cool, good to know
<snap-l> I know last year it was a tad crowded
<snap-l> Also, there's a Natty release panel scheduled for Penguicon
<snap-l> so if you want to talk Natty, please come to the panel
<snap-l> even if you don't, you can act as bouncers. ;)
<snap-l> bring your own sunglasses and wife-beater T-shirts.
<greg-g> I have some extras
<snap-l> Seriously, though, should be good, and from what I've seen of this release tonight, it should be a pretty congenial panel
<greg-g> cool, so, other than blogging/mailing list/twitter announcements, anything we need to do between now and then?
<snap-l> Not to my knowledge
<greg-g> cool
<snap-l> Just let folks know that they need to register for P-con
<snap-l> And register soon if they want to participate and haven't registered yet.
 * greg-g nods
 * rick_h_ whistles
<snap-l> and tell Rick that he'll be leading the panel
<snap-l> rick_h_: see above. ;)
<rick_h_> panel? missed that
<rick_h_> hah!
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> "Unity from the outsider's perspective"
<snap-l> Nah, I think he'll need to go deep to be able to lead it
<snap-l> We'll install Natty on his laptop from scratch
<jrwren> was that Rochester, MI or MN or NY?
<rick_h_> NY
<snap-l> jrwren: ny, I believe
<rick_h_> yea, they've had some good loco stuff up there, suprised at that
<snap-l> anything else on release stuff / Penguicon?
<greg-g> don't think so
<snap-l> MUG Meeting: As far as I can tell, we're OK to sponsor either June or July
<snap-l> I think we need to firm up our plans on what to present and just let MUG know
<rick_h_> did we raise the $$ greg-g ?
<greg-g> so... I need to do another press for donations/memberships, I only have us three :/
<rick_h_> actually, did I donate to that?
<jrwren> should have pressed today.
<greg-g> rick_h_: yeah, you did, and snap-l
<rick_h_> I think I did, but don't recall
<rick_h_> k
<rick_h_> heh, sucky
<greg-g> yeah, I totally forgot, I thought about it last night in bed :(
<snap-l> Yeah, I forgot to mention it as well
<rick_h_> well yea, maybe do a "we only need XX more" call
<snap-l> I'll mention it at the MUG meeting as well
<greg-g> cool, I want to blog about it, I think
<snap-l> Then we can post it on reddit...
<greg-g> (I added tasks for release party to the agenda)
<greg-g> heh
<snap-l> I added the Natty release party to th events schedule
<greg-g> awesome
<snap-l> Next thing that I had was using the events calendar over the Google calendar
<greg-g> yeah, so, have you used it in evolution yet? how does it do?
<snap-l> but I don't think it's there yet
<snap-l> It doesn't do the time zones properly
<snap-l> and meetings aren't showing up
<snap-l> so we'll need to update both until it gets fixed up better.
<greg-g> hmmm, ok... so, we'll just keep an eye on that one
<snap-l> (which is a bummer)
<greg-g> yeah
<snap-l> That's all that I had on the agenda
<greg-g> cool
<greg-g> yeah, so, I think that's good
<greg-g> btw, does anyone know if I add an ical URL in gcal, if it periodically updates/pulls from that ical url?
<snap-l> Yeah, it should
<greg-g> cool, never used it like that before
<snap-l> not sure what the polling rate is
<greg-g> just added it to test
<snap-l> Under evo you can set the polling timeframe
 * greg-g nods
<snap-l> Google Calendar gets the tz right
<greg-g> yeah
<greg-g> our events line up with what was in the original gcal we have
<snap-l> well hell, the meeting is showing up now
<snap-l> when I checked earlier, it wasn't.
<snap-l> Doing a quick check w/ google -> evo
 * greg-g nods
<snap-l> Evolution doesn't like it
<greg-g> lame
<snap-l> Well, it doesn't allow me to set the timezone for it
<snap-l> otherwise, it would work perfectly.
<snap-l> Google manages to get it right
<jrwren> my bar just crashed... wtf is the bar called? I didn't get an appport for it either :(
<greg-g> weird
<greg-g> that's the hardest part for me, relearning what things are call in this new paradigm :)
<snap-l> just call it the mark bar
<greg-g> so, release party announcement stuff, and MUG sponsorship pressing, I think thats all we got
<greg-g> any good ideas for the MUG thing?
<snap-l> Q&A on broadcom cards. ;)
<greg-g> I mean, how to get money :)
<rick_h_> I was going to talk about PPA stuff
<snap-l> Bake sale
<greg-g> heh
<rick_h_> good uses, examples, how to get stuff from there
<snap-l> rick_h_: that's awesome
<greg-g> cool, I like
<rick_h_> not sure I'll get all into building your own
<rick_h_> but more as an undisovered resource
<greg-g> yeah
<greg-g> still good
<snap-l> greg-g: I think posting to the list as a reminder
<snap-l> and mentioning it at the release party
<snap-l> and broadcasting at MUG
<snap-l> Also, garnisheeing paychecks
<snap-l> that should do it
<rick_h_> yea, will try to recall to bring up at CCHC
<snap-l> and CHC
<rick_h_> and bring my enforcement bat
<greg-g> rock
<rick_h_> gah, typing lag sucks
<greg-g> I'll send a reminder to the list
<snap-l> Also, huge thanks to SRT for the space, and thanks to everyone that came on out
<snap-l> it was amazing and awesome!
<rick_h_> yay
<greg-g> word!
<greg-g> thanks again, jrwren
<greg-g> always love going there
<snap-l> Yes, thank you do much jsjgruber_
<snap-l> er, jrwren
<greg-g> heh
<snap-l> (blasted tab complete)
<greg-g> (I don't know why IRC tab complete is always implemented badly, instead of how it is done on BASH, where if there are more than one possible completion, it just makes you type more)
<snap-l> a-yep
<jsjgruber_> That was a nice location at SRT.
<greg-g> :)
<snap-l> Anything else anyone would like to add?
 * greg-g shakes his head
<greg-g> I'm writing up the MUG sponsorship reminder now
<snap-l> heh
<greg-g> and will do a thanks for coming to the jam post soon
<snap-l> OK, so with that, I think we'll call this meeting closed for now
<snap-l> brousch: You made it home OK?
<greg-g> snap-l: thanks for creating that agenda/meeting page
<snap-l> Hey, NP
<snap-l> I'll copy that over for the next meeting
<greg-g> rock
<snap-l> though I think we'll want to reschedule the meeting to perhaps Monday
<snap-l> or the next Sunday, since it'll be after P-con weekend
<snap-l> Anyone opposed to making it the 7th?
<snap-l> er, 8th?
<brousch> we just got back. ended up eating at the indian place
<snap-l> brousch: Ah, very cool
<greg-g> brousch: I've only been there once, during "Restuarant Week" (which means, it was busy), how was it?
<snap-l> brousch: Thank you for bringing the beer
<snap-l> The Scotch Ale was awesome.
<greg-g> snap-l: the 8th sounds good to me
<greg-g> snap-l: yes, thank you so much for the beer
<greg-g> brousch: yes, thank you so much for the beer
<greg-g> :)
<snap-l> brousch: Next time I see you, beer is on me. :)
<brousch> it was awesome food
<brousch> and it was empty
<brousch> blue nile was empty too
<snap-l> Bah, maybe next time, then
<greg-g> snap-l: MUG indivindual membership is $35?
<snap-l> Yessir
<greg-g> thankya sir
<snap-l> y'know, the site doesn't have that info on it
<greg-g> nope
<greg-g> Figured there'd be a "Membership" page or similar
<snap-l> You would think
<brousch> ok, bedtime
<brousch> seeyou tomorrow
<greg-g> brousch: g'night, great seeing....
<snap-l> you...
<greg-g> snap-l: I'm thinking a deadline for the sponsorship might be a good idea, what should it be to be convenient for MUG?
<greg-g> end of April? May?
<snap-l> hurm... I think May should work
<snap-l> but have NFC otherwise.
<snap-l> I'll ask
<greg-g> k
<greg-g> I'll wait on the reminder then
<snap-l> Go ahead and send it out
<snap-l> I'd rather not have you wait on us
<greg-g> ok
<rick_h_> Yea, shoot for may 1
 * greg-g nods
<rick_h_> I don't kinow why we can't get it settled in 30 days
<snap-l> Yeah, it should be oK
<rick_h_> and gives up last minute time to collect $$ at PC
 * greg-g nods
<snap-l> http://picasaweb.google.com/craigmaloney/GlobalJam20110403
<greg-g> https://bugs.launchpad.net/loco-directory/+bug/749885 my bug about the LD and flickr photos :)
<snap-l> Hey jcastro
<greg-g> snap-l: nice photos
<jcastro> yo
<snap-l> greg-g: Thanks!
<snap-l> btw: got a response back from Cloudkicker, so hoping to have a show with them
<rick_h_> http://blog.mitechie.com/2011/04/03/introducing-booki-only-for-developers/
<snap-l> They're one of my favorite new CC discoveries. :)
<rick_h_> 0.1 is there, yay
<snap-l> bookie
<snap-l> I think you made a typo
<rick_h_> crap, url didn't change
<rick_h_> dammit, just put on twitter,
<rick_h_> gah!
<snap-l> never fails. ;)
<rick_h_> ok, updated
<rick_h_> and wordpress seems smart to redirect the bad url to the good one
<snap-l> sweetness.
<rick_h_> ok, time to rest, 0.2 starts tomorrow
<greg-g> :) g'night rick_h_
<greg-g> I'm on a roll: http://blog.grossmeier.net/2011/04/03/mug-sponsorship/
<brousch> snap-l: awesome https://picasaweb.google.com/craigmaloney/GlobalJam20110403#5591551832529688354
<rick_h__> woot! first python based trigger for postgresql working
<brousch> rick_h__: do i know will fuqua?
<rick_h__> brousch: yea, Blazeix_
<brousch> ah, ok
<brousch> darn non-real-name-like irc handles
<snap-l> brousch: Heh. :)
<snap-l> Meetings Meetings, causing a commotion; giving me the notion that I won't get shit done today.
<rick_h__> hah, didn't think you had them on monday
<snap-l> Normally have two
<snap-l> but today I have three, because I wanted to do the weekly review that I couldn't do on Friday
<snap-l> So we can talk about the next iteration of the thing that we haven't completely released the latest iteration of. ;)
<snap-l> Considering it's 6:30am for anyone on west-coast time, this should be fun
<rick_h__> hah
<snap-l> And I'm still listening to conference call music
<snap-l> I feel a reschedule in my future
<snap-l> Well well well, we're on
<greg-g> fancy that
<rick_h__> anyone need a coffee table? glass top with metal base
<snap-l> I'm set for coffeetables at the moment, thanks
<brousch> rick_h__: sounds hazardous
<rick_h__> got the giant ottoman so no need for it now
<rick_h__> brousch: survived a long time without injury
<brousch> does your boy climb?
<rick_h__> yea, but he's not allowed downstairs so it's not been an issue
<brousch> hehe
<snap-l> ...yet...
<brousch> time to write up my unity love post
<wolfger> snap-l: +1 for filking the Narwhals tune
<greg-g> filk? film?
<wolfger> filk
<wolfger> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filk
<wolfger> see "used as a verb" definition #2
<wolfger> and for goodness sake, attend a Tom Smith concert at Penguicon!!!
<jrwren> wow, apparently a couple of my coworkers were interested in the jam yesterday. I guess I need to publisize more.
<jrwren> mabye they are just saying that though.
<rick_h__> it was the beer :P
<snap-l> Beer and people
<wolfger> there was beer? Damn. ;-)
<wolfger> Sadly, it was in AA on a weekend. I'm near AA all week long. Decided I really ought to spend the weekend at home with family.
<snap-l> bah, family
<wolfger> If I'd gone, I may as well have stayed in Dundee for the night :-p
<snap-l> It's not like AA is across the damn planet. ;)
<wolfger> Yeah, and I've got all those west-siders that showed up making me look bad, too
<snap-l> yep. ;)
<wolfger> but again, I'm only home 2 days a week, so, you know...
<wolfger> my wife likes to see her husband sometimes
<wolfger> Hmm. Gmail still says "Coming Soon: Better ads in Gmail."
<wolfger> I thought that was an April Fool's joke
<tjagoda> Hah
<tjagoda> YOU THOUGHT WRONG
<tjagoda> Google's always there
<tjagoda> pretending to not be evil
<tjagoda> Sucking away at your information.. =P
<wolfger> The Japanese word of the day is ã³ã®ã£ã«. Which means "teenage girl who wears gaudy clothes". That's one heck of a specific word...
<tjagoda> And I bet it gets used a TON in Japan =P
<jrwren> ok, i won't talk smack about metallica anymore.  S&M is great to code to.
<jrwren> in the us we call them teeny boppers.
<wolfger> S&M coding?
<wolfger> Is that all the ease-of-reading of Perl combined with the freedom and power of Java?
<jrwren> any coding is S&M coding.
<snap-l> So many ways to go completely wrong with that thread.
<wolfger> SQL like a pig?
<snap-l> Is throwing an exception like a safe word?
<greg-g> from now on, my error message variables will all be safeword :)
<snap-l> heh
<jrwren> WEEEEEeeeee
<jrwren> I knew MySQL was a rapist.
<binbrain> rick_h_: great chat w/Michael Foord about testing
<snap-l> "Now let's just see you DROP that database." "Drop?" "Just take it right out"
<jrwren> snap-l: LOL'
<rick_h__> binbrain: cool, glad you liked it
<rick_h__> ok, SQL quiz time since it came up: http://paste.mitechie.com/show/270/
<rick_h__> I'm missing the right way to do this
<rick_h__> and I can't find my Sql Cookbook
<rick_h__> one->many relation and I want to join them, but only grab the 'latest' of the many side
<rick_h__> doing it this way is waaaay to slow
<jrwren> i don't think you need the subquery.
<snap-l> is HotAlert_Detail"."InsertDate" indexed?
<jrwren> just a regular join with the groupby and having.
<rick_h__> bah, that was a bad reduction of the original query
<rick_h__> missing the join correctly
<jrwren> oh, you can't aggregate on the same field you are grouping can you?
<jrwren> err, no. hrm..
<jrwren> no, that should work.
<rick_h__> k, trying to clean it up, sec
<jrwren> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/271/
<rick_h__> the problem is if I do the MAX I have to add all the columns from the tables into the gruop by
<rick_h__> right, but too many rows to do it outside like that
<rick_h__> I want to limit the join to only a small subset first
<jrwren> do it select n+1 then?
<jrwren> i can't believe I just suggested that :)
<rick_h__> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/272/
<greg-g> thanks, smoser ! (you know what for!)
<rick_h__> see, if you do that have to do a massive group by of all the cols
<rick_h__> umm, ok... greg-g :P
<smoser> greg-g, no problem. other people send greg-g money for mug if you have not done so.
<greg-g> rick_h__: MUG sponsorship (i hope its ok I outed him like that :) )
<rick_h__> cool, yea definitely. Shame those that have not contrib'd
<rick_h__>  :P
<smoser> did you talk to jorge about getting some money from canonical?
<smoser> surely we can scrape up $50
<rick_h__> no, we want to do this as community
<rick_h__> the idea is the loco as a community org helping a LUG and such
<greg-g> the power of the community!
<rick_h__> yea, I mean we've only had some 4 people donate and there's 8+ that go to MUG
<rick_h__> shouldn't be an issue
 * greg-g nods
<greg-g> we're 2/3's of the way there, btw
<DBO> what is the money for?
<DBO> greg-g, ^^
<rick_h__> http://blog.grossmeier.net/2011/04/03/mug-sponsorship/
<DBO> where are we at?
<rick_h__> 2/3 done
<rick_h__> I think we just need to poke widox_ and waldo and guys
<greg-g> DBO: yeah, what rick_h__ said while I was afk
<DBO> can I donate without a paypal account
<greg-g> DBO: sure, however you can get money to me
<greg-g> paypal is the easiest even though one of the most evil :)
<snap-l> A check via traditional mail should work as well
<snap-l> assuming greg-g wants to give out his home address.
<snap-l> If not, I'll give you mine via e-mail
<snap-l> and then paypal greg-g ;)
<snap-l> we can make this work. We have the technology.
<DBO> give me your routing info
<DBO> i'll wire you whatever is left
<snap-l> Just like the IRS
<greg-g> DBO: whats your email?
<DBO> $50 exact or is it more?
<greg-g> right now, $50 exactly
<DBO> yeah I refuse to do business with them
<DBO> they fucked me
<DBO> I can wire this right into your account however, no problem
<DBO> jassmith@gmail.com
<greg-g> coolio
<greg-g> DBO: sent
<DBO> greg-g, thats a checking?
<DBO> (account type is required info for some reason on this interface)
<greg-g> DBO: yep
<DBO> greg-g, sent
<greg-g> thanks buddy!
<DBO> it will take however long your and my bank take to work out the transfer
<DBO> (hopefully not long, seen it take 72 hours once...)
<DBO> i hope thats not a big problem
<smoser> how did paypal $*#@ you, DBO
<smoser> oh, and i have a question for you DBO.
<smoser> in unity, i bring up that mlauncher menu thingy by clicking on the ubuntu logo in the top left.
<DBO> smoser, they put a hold on my account that had $200 in it and refused to tell me why
<DBO> they still have it
<smoser> then i want to launch something that is in it.
<smoser> to do that i have to quickly double click
<smoser> is that right ?
<DBO> put the mouse against the top left corner
<smoser> its quite awkward
<smoser> ah. so that seems to work, but i did not know that you could bring up the menu like that.
<smoser> i woudl do so via windows key
<DBO> hold the windows key
<DBO> you can do that too
<greg-g> DBO: yuck, sorry about the paypal suckery
<smoser> nice. i pushed windows key while i was saying that
<smoser> and doing an upgrade
<smoser> and that was bad.
<smoser> it went into a unity restart cycle
<smoser> :)
<smoser> so i have the thing on auto-hide
<smoser> and if i hold it it pops up
<smoser> but then i have numbers ofver the icods. i guess it works.
<smoser> i think its somewhat awkward when i click on the ubuntu logo that if i try to launch an item by middle clicking the  menu goes away
<smoser> ah. it seems that that is now improved behavior
<smoser> as it is greyed out if i click the ubuntu icon
<smoser> although it still seems strnage to me that i have to hold it down and then click while holding or it goes away
<smoser> anyway, i'll quit ranting
<DBO> smoser, i agree with a lot of what you say
<DBO> the system is not perfect
<DBO> I think next cycle there will be some changes
<DBO> unfortunately, I am not in design
<DBO> I cant make changes until design performs a head-ass-ectomy
<smoser> DBO, thats fine. if you want i can open bugs
<smoser> i'm trying to give first time (or new) user input
<smoser> i really am somewhat confused by  a lot of it, but i know that i'm not the target
<DBO> you are the target
<DBO> everyone is
<DBO> if it doesn't work for you
<DBO> that is something I care about
<DBO> I wouldn't be doing my job if I didn't care
<DBO> filing bugs is awesome
<smoser> well, i am most definitely not the target for "design team"
<DBO> it gets marks attention
<DBO> even if he "dismisses" the bug
<DBO> he wont forget
<DBO> no
<DBO> you are my target however
<DBO> and the only time I get say is at sprints
<smoser> i'll file a bug then.
<greg-g> smoser: luckily at the global jam we all gave some good/bad/ugly feedback to jcastro for dissemination to mark et al
<smoser> yeah, i wish i could hvae come
<greg-g> smoser: coming from first time users and various use-cases
<smoser> i actually *did* come
<smoser> :)
<smoser> but came on saturday
<smoser> door locked
<smoser> checked phone
<greg-g> really? oh sad!
<smoser> DOH!
<smoser> yeah. i couldn't come yesterday though
<greg-g> :( next time
<smoser> yeah.
 * DBO was there too
<DBO> then I ran away
<smoser> DBO, one more thing
<smoser> ok. i just dist-upgraded
<smoser> and then did unity-reset
<greg-g> used his gf as an excuse when really it was "oh man, they're getting ready to slit my throat with this unity stuff!" ;)
<smoser> i launch a gnome-terminal from the launcher using middle click
<smoser> and its window border goes under the top border
<DBO> greg-g, the real reason for my coming was to prove she exists!
<DBO> smoser, I fixed that in trunk already
<DBO> that was a very dumb bug :/
<smoser> DBO, good enough for me.
<smoser> thank sman.
<greg-g> DBO: and there's pictures now on the planet of you two, so mission completed.
<DBO> :P
<greg-g> geez, gmail seems slow today
<jrwren> http://davisagli.com/blog/the-making-of-zodb.ws
<greg-g> at least their imap/smtp servers
<wolfger> Man, CNN polls lack so many choices.
<wolfger> Today it's "If the government shuts down this week, will you blame the Democrats or the Republicans?"
<wolfger> There is no option for "both" or "blame them?"
<brousch> i blame bin laden
<wolfger> I vote "can't we just keep it shut down permanently?"
<wolfger> brousch: Bin Laden has nothing to do with why the Dems and Pubs can't agree on a single thing. Unless you're blaming him for not causing another country-uniting atrocity.
<jrwren> they agree on many things.
<wolfger> But even that, I'm afraid, would separate us into "Obama failed to protect us!" versus people with an ounce of common sense (of which there are too few)
<jrwren> they love corporations.
<jrwren> they love money.
<jrwren> they agree on lying to american people.
<wolfger> 2 out of 3, jrwren
<wolfger> they can't agree on which corporations to love
<jrwren> 3 for 3.
<jrwren> yes they can.
<jrwren> see Dow30.
<snap-l> I'm sorry, if the government shuts down, it's a failure of those charged with keeping it running
<snap-l> Democrats, Republicans, Libertarians, and the people who vote for them
<_stink__> are any Libertarians charged with keeping it running?
<snap-l> I'm not sure, but they seem to get their rocks off at hurling insults at the other two
<_stink__> heh
<snap-l> Q: What's the quickest way to get a Libertarian to shut up about the government? A: Elect them
<wolfger> snap-l: I like that solution, and accept your vote
<snap-l> wolfger: I knew one guy that was running as a Libertarian
<snap-l> I swear, he would have shit his pants had someone elected him
<brousch> no matter how dumbed down you make a wizard, someone dumber will still be unable to use it
<rick_h__> definitely
<rick_h__> so got the query from 26s down to 9s
<rick_h__> well, I guess query + everything, whole page load time
<brousch> ug, seems long still
<brousch> i'm hitting times like that one my rpc calls to my legacy access db
<brousch> i don't like it
<rick_h__> yea, well it's generating a 6.1mb xls file on the fly
<rick_h__> I don't like it, but nearly 3x faster is an improvement
<brousch> yeah
<rick_h__> I could make it faster if i did a materialzied view, but that's a lot more work since pgsql doesn't do them ootb
<brousch> i'm starting to ask those people if they really need that whole file, or are they just looking for one nugget of info they happen to exists in that report
<rick_h__> yea, that's what I told the boss. It's a year of data now. Do they really need it all or can we start limiting to only the last 3mo or so
<brousch> i mean, wtf do they do with 6.1MB of excel data?
<rick_h__> it's a data export, so I can understand if they don't trust us
<rick_h__> but they use it because they can create filters/views based on the data in excel
<rick_h__> market research is all about getting things into excel, they're masters at the thing
<brousch> heh
<brousch> we have a 10-20 page report that gets printed every week and handed out to like 10 people. nobody looks at it but it makes them feel good to see all the data
<rick_h__> yea, we built them a whole web app with sorting, filtering, etc...but until they could print it and take it to a meeting (guess no projectors) they weren't happy
<rick_h__> hmmmm, paper
<brousch> they say they like the weight of the report. if the report is light they know we need more hours in the shop
<brousch> if the report is heavy, we are too busy
<rick_h__> time to force all the printers to do dual sided 6pages per side printing
<brousch> this is the problem with running the same report for 15+ years
<brousch> it is double-sided now
<brousch> that switched about 10 years ago
<snap-l> brousch: Seriously? Why not save the paper and just give them a weight
<snap-l> 5 grams, 10 grams, and 20 grams
<snap-l> if that's all they care about, why knock yourself out making the report in the first place
<snap-l> just have the program tell someone what weight to distribute
<brousch> good idea
<_stink__> sounds like the rumor that law school profs grade their exams by tossing them down a flight of stairs.  those that travel the farthest get the best grades.
<rick_h__> _stink__: using a heavy ink when I write
<rick_h__> can you still get some lead ink? :)
<_stink__> no kidding
<_stink__> how depressing
<wolfger> brousch: The ultimate wizard is a single button that says "Do what I want". And you will then encounter a user who doesn't know what he wants.
<brousch> this recent email breach is hitting a lot of companies. i've gotten notices from tivo and best buy
<wolfger> greg-g: what happened to our logging?
<wolfger> There's a huge gap. today
<wolfger>  (let the conspiracy theories begin)
<rick_h__> brousch: yea, got my Chase notice today :/
<wolfger> They sent you a notice that they are a greedy soul-sucking bank?
<jjesse> me 2
<jjesse> yay for epsilon
<jjesse> might be a smaller list of people who didn't get breached
<_stink__> hmm, i'm a chase customer
<_stink__> i hadn't heard about this
<jjesse> yup
<rick_h__> just got it today, their farmed out email service got hacked
<rick_h__> so tons of big companies are having to notify their base about it
<jjesse> they outsource some of thier work to epsilon which was hacked
<jjesse> http://yro.slashdot.org/story/11/04/03/016215/Epsilon-Data-Breach-Bigger-Than-Just-Kroger-Customers-Data?from=rss
<_stink__> heh, i have accounts with 3 of the companies listed in this article
<rick_h__> yea, I've got 2 and the wife one
<jjesse> fun times
<snap-l> https://twitter.com/merlyn/statuses/54971882050551810
<snap-l> rick_h__: ^^
<snap-l> I told him to just use PostgreSQL. ;)
<snap-l> no problems with pronunciation
<rick_h__> snap-l: lol
<Blazeix> hm, I'm sometimes guilty of pronouncing it as "my sequel"
<greg-g> if wolfger were here, I would tell him that a netsplit is probably to blame
<Blazeix> I blame "Sequel server"
<_stink__> wait, do people in here really usually call it 'my ess queue ell'?
<_stink__> i always say 'my sequel'.
<rick_h__> yea, I used to always make sure I spelled it out
<rick_h__> but everyone uses the short hand that it started to seep in
<rick_h__> I'm 50/50 now
<snap-l> I like his RT response: RT @jayscript: @merlyn I've always understood MySQL to mean "Please don't"
<_stink__> haha
<snap-l> Heh, someone is using a sink
<snap-l> on a conference call
<_stink__> probably just pooped
<rick_h__> better than hearing a toilet flush
<snap-l> I think we might have
<snap-l> not sure
<snap-l> someone sounded a little rushed.
<greg-g> haha
<Blazeix> anybody know anything about this? http://detroitcloudapril2011.eventbrite.com/
<Blazeix> thinking I might check it out later today
<snap-l> nfc
<jcastro> hey snapples
<jcastro> snap-l: can you try unity2d on your eee?
<snap-l> hey jorgler
<jcastro> I wonder how m uch better it will run
<snap-l> how would one install it, should one wish to try it?
<jcastro> sudo apt-get install unity-2d
<jcastro> log out, and select 2d in the session/gdm thing
<brousch> i think chrome and unity 2d were very slow
<snap-l> giving it a try
<jcastro> brousch: how did 2d end up running for you on the one thing?
<brousch> it ran well sometimes, then was ass-slow other times
<brousch> i think it was chrome, but haven't had time to make sure
<jcastro> how much ram?
<brousch> 2GB
<jcastro> if you run out of ram it's chrome
<jcastro> yeah
<jcastro> chrome needs like 2gb just for itself
<brousch> that seems silly
<jcastro> that speed comes from somewhere. :)
<jcastro> I find FF to use less ram, but launch/run slower
<jcastro> so I guess it's a tradeoff
<snap-l> Man, that's a lot of disk space. ;)
<snap-l> Trying unity 2d on my VM as well
<snap-l> Um, only complaint is the gnome theme daemon goes for a toss
<snap-l> Seriously, it looks like 2001 Gnome
<smoser> snap-l, you are so unhip its not even funny
<greg-g> yeah, major issue that one
<Blazeix> yeah, I guess that's because it's QT, right? So you'd need to install that qt-gtk theme.
<snap-l> Yeah, I had to
<snap-l> reset the settings, I mean
<snap-l> It seems snappier
<snap-l> has a few usability issues, though
<snap-l> I promise I'll keep natty on that machine, so if you want me to test things with it, I will
<greg-g> snap-l: which package did you install to get it to look better?
<greg-g> apt-cache search gtk qt didn't help too much
<snap-l> http://www.metalinjection.net/tv/channels/metal-injections-the-fix/
<snap-l> greg-g: I think I was mistaken
<greg-g> oh
<snap-l> I tried setting the theme again, but it still looked like gtk plain
<greg-g> oh, I mis-read you anyways
<greg-g> Blazeix: what package are you referring to?
<Blazeix> greg-g: qgtkstyle, I think
<Blazeix> I'm not a unity dev, but that's what I've used before to make qt blend with gtk apps
<Blazeix> looks like in ubuntu if you have qt4config you can just enable it
<Blazeix> apparently it ships with Qt4.5 and later
<snap-l> I think the opposite problem is happening
<Blazeix> oh, did I misunderstand?
<Blazeix> ah, so gtk apps are foobar, not qt
<snap-l> The gtk apps aren't getting themed
<greg-g> yeah, I have no clue what the deal is :/
<snap-l> anyone know of a QT app that isn't Lyx?
<snap-l> I don't want to download 500MB just to try a hunch
<Blazeix> vlc?
<snap-l> That works
<snap-l> hrum, still looks like gtk 2 native
<Blazeix> is gnome-settings-daemon running?
<snap-l> What's strange is appearance preferences seems to change
<snap-l> yep
<snap-l> It seems like it gets frozen or something
<snap-l> did a kill -9 on it, and now it's back to beautiful
<snap-l> I really hate these job posting e-mail cold calls:
<snap-l> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/274/
<snap-l> I feel like responding:
<snap-l> Zeus was eliminated by Siberia and pitches the cannibal.
<snap-l> Let's go dancing at 5pm, and toss our cares away.
<snap-l> ie: please read my fucking reasume
<gamerchick02> yeah, i get the feeling, snap-l
<_stink__> snap-l: response with this: http://paste.mitechie.com/show/A6UdqkvQq4dE5lm5w515/
<_stink__> (nsfw text if you care.)
<snap-l> Even a simple "Hey, I saw on your resume that you did VB back in 1998, are you looking to get back into it?"
<snap-l> _stink__: Hahahahahaha
<gamerchick02> oh, that is awesome, _stink_
<snap-l> Where did you get that?
<snap-l> That was quick turn-around. I'm hoping it's a script. :)
<_stink__> snap-l: my brain
<jcastro> hey snap-l
<jcastro> do you guys remember if the nautilus icon on people's machines were little orange houses or filing cabinets at the jam?
<jcastro> the icon on the launcher
<_stink__> sadly, no.  i needed a break. :P
<snap-l> jcastro: Not offhand
<snap-l> on mine it was a house
<snap-l> the filing cabinet is the non-themed version
<jcastro> brousch: what did yours look like?
<brousch> house
<brousch> actually it was a house, then later bcame a filing cabinet
<brousch> useful
<jcastro> what do you mean became a filing cabinet?
<jcastro> did it change or something?
<jcastro> also, which one did you guys prefer?
<brousch> it was an orange house at one point, and a gay filing cabinet later
<brousch> i prefrred the house
<brousch> or it might have been house on eee and cabinet on tablet
<snap-l> I like the house, but both metaphors are pretty ughly
<brousch> i'll look tonight. ignore me for now
<gamerchick02> i've got an orange house on my unity launcher.
<jrwren> I never knew *.domain ssl certs didn't work on domain.
<snap-l> Yeah, ssl certs are very particular
<jrwren> so... $50 for the domain cert, and $1000 for the *.domain cert :)
<snap-l> and trying to do something self-signed is even more fun.
<jrwren> yeah?
<jrwren> I rarely self sign anymore. I find it easier to just start my own CA and sign with an unknown CA
<jcastro> http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-KUsQdGHQZX8/TZLDaesEGOI/AAAAAAAAO2U/t2hX0-OCNFA/s1600/bit+asb.jpg
<greg-g> lolz
<brousch> jcastro: house icon on unity, filing cabinet on unity 2d
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-04-05
<jcastro> hey krondor
<jcastro> I am stuck rotating clockwise, I think I must have jarred something loose
<greg-g> w00t, just finished install mediawiki! :)
<greg-g> wasn't that bad, really, only like 10 minutes, after the hours of trying to get Natty running in virtualbox ;)
<brousch> hours?
<greg-g> brousch: well, mostly just first downloading the 64bit version of natty, remembering that virtualbox can only do 32bit guests so downloading that version, that took over an hour and a half in and of itself ;)
<jjesse> virtual box can do 64-bit vms
<jjesse> if you have virtualziation enabled
<greg-g> oh well
<snap-l> and you need to be runningg a 64bit host
<greg-g> yeah, I am on a 64bit host
<nixternal> http://main.diabetes.org/site/TR/TourdeCure/ChicagoNorthernILArea?px=5915330&pg=personal&fr_id=7587   -- come on geeks, donate to the fight! don't let broke cyclists show up the geeks :p
<nixternal> frack, wrong channel
<nixternal> ctrl+p
<nixternal> keep forgetting i put this channel prior to chicago lug and ubuntu chicago
<snap-l> Pthhpt
<snap-l> AS it should be. ;)
<greg-g> huh, "bitch" gave $25
<nixternal> haha, my buddy jess
<nixternal> though, it should say i have raised $100, but it only says $75 right now :/  kubuntu donated $25
<nixternal> now it says $100
<nixternal> rock on, frackin' all stars. i am going to show the team captain up
<greg-g> hah
<krondor> JCastro: my part should come in tomorrow, let me know if you find the problem
<greg-g> guess who has two thumbs and couldn't sleep so he got up to do work?
<greg-g> thus guy
<greg-g> heh, "this"
<Blazeix> woo, 12:20 party!
<greg-g> :)
<Blazeix> greg-g: geez, you missed it.
<Blazeix> it was a glorious minute.
<greg-g> Blazeix: next time ;)
<Blazeix> Yeah, it was a somewhat disappointing turnout :/
<nixternal> much better working this late. i work from 11pm until 4am, wake up at 10, work until noon or 1pm, then go out and ride until 6pm, shower, and start all over. far more productive that way
<snap-l> !openmetalcast Episode 18 will rock you. No, really, that's the title of the episode. Seriously, check it out. http://ur1.ca/3s22y
<rick_h__> woooo
<snap-l> :)
<brousch> all queen?
<snap-l> If they decided to release the entire back-catalog as  CC-licensed stuff, I'd consider it.
<rick_h__> kind of cool: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/reviews/2011/04/toshibas-mobile-lcd-monitor-a-second-screen-for-road-warriors.ars?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+arstechnica%2Findex+%28Ars+Technica+-+Featured+Content%29&utm_content=Google+Reader
<rick_h__> bah, sry for crap url
<brousch> rick_h__: did you see the bookie logo i put up yesterday in #bookie?
<snap-l> Good morning, gentle folk
<jjesse> hello
<snap-l> Something is not happy in chrome-town
<brousch> on your unity system?
<snap-l> On my normal system
<snap-l> All of the extensions are crashing
<snap-l> Damnit, I was afraid of that
<snap-l> reboot fixed it
<snap-l> which means there's something else afoot to make the machine unstable
<rick_h__> ruh roh
<brousch> blame windows
<jjesse> chrome was frozen for me as well this morning, though on windows 7 64-bit
<snap-l> Well, it wasn't even loading the extensions
<Blazeix> rick_h__: did you know that you're in google's autocomplete suggestions now?
<Blazeix> if you type 'mitechie' it suggests 'mitechie github'
<brousch> daaaaaaaamn, you hit the big time!
<snap-l> you sure it's not just your autocomplete?
<Blazeix> pretty sure, I logged out and it still worked
<Blazeix> I also was over a VPN, so I don't think it's location-based
<brousch> works for me
<snap-l> That's cool!
<snap-l> There's still some carnigie mellon dude taking over the first result for Craig Maloney
<jjesse> i get mitecie and mitechie github in my suggestions
<greg-g> I get mitechie vim :)
<greg-g> (logged in)
<greg-g> (must have been a past search, I get the mitechie github when using another browser)
<wolfger> I type "mitechie<space>" and it suggests "mitechie com" and "mitechie github"
<jjesse> thats what i get
<wolfger> when I type "snap-l" it suggests "snap-lock systems" and a bunch of other rubbish.
<wolfger> So I guess we know which half of the lococast is famous, and which is the hanger-on. :-)
<greg-g> yeah, and good luck with "greg"
<snap-l> wolfger: I'm fully aware that I'll just be the pool-boy when rick_h__ gets his island nation from all of the lococast fallout. ;)
<brousch> the poolboy gets all the chicks
<greg-g> snap-l wearing a speedo..... *shudders*
<snap-l> greg-g: It's as bad as it seems. ;)
<snap-l> I wear a speedo like a whale wears an innertube
<Blazeix> next topic
<greg-g> lol
<wolfger> well at least it's not "like a narwhal wears an innertube"
 * wolfger pauses while the meaning sinks in and the mental images form...
<brousch> perhaps the most disturbing thing is that he's actually tried wearing one
<brousch> ug, i always forget how long it takes to type up a real blog post. twitter and buzz have spoiled me
<ColonelPanic001> heh
<snap-l> brousch: Rest assuered, I've not tried to wear one
<jcastro> https://twitter.com/#!/1990sLinuxUser
<snap-l> I've seen greater men try and fail miserably.
<jcastro> OMG!
<snap-l> jcastro: Too bad 1990sLinuxUser isn't on identi.ca
<snap-l> or would it go unnoticed? ;)
<jrwren> i love 1990s linux user.
<jcastro> no, that guy would be like "what's wrong with .plan files?"
<jrwren> i've resisted following becuase i see so many retweets.
<brousch> ouch http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/04/01/ubuntu1004_beta_review/
<brousch> heh, the title is the wrong version
<brousch> it is 11.04 bashfest
<rick_h__> Blazeix: cool thanks for the heads up. Glad I went with the non-real name now. Only took years to get it built up
<rick_h__> snap-l: hah, on the lococast island. It's like a startup without a business plan
<rick_h__> "someone buy me out pls!"
<wolfger> "Eventually, come Ubuntu 13.04 or so, Unity will seem like a brilliant move, but the transition is going to be bumpy."
<snap-l> And someone just realized what LTS really means.
<wolfger> So does that mean KDE4 will seem like a brilliant move one of these days?
<jcastro> so really
<jcastro> the guy complains about not having panel applets
<wolfger> Maybe I should try KDE4 again...
<jcastro> and configuring the launcher
<rick_h__> this one is my fav jcastro https://twitter.com/#!/1990sLinuxUser/status/54895458660777985
<jcastro> surely, worst, ever.
<snap-l> jcastro: Get ready for the backlash
<snap-l> it's 1990 all over again. ;)
<rick_h__> it's KDE4 all over
<snap-l> "We demands our perfection out of the box"
<wolfger> snap-l: Well, yeah. Shouldn't users expect/demand that?
<snap-l> I need to be able to put wanda up in my panel, or I'm going to scream bloody murder from my parents basement
<rick_h__> ok, this is april 1st?
<snap-l> rick_h__: ?
<wolfger> Linux will never conquer the desktop as long as distros release with the expectation that users will help them iron out the bugs. Which is what KDE4 (and now Unity) did.
<snap-l> wolfger: IT'S A DEVELOPER RELEASE!
<jjesse> wolfger kde4 is much better
<wolfger> LOL
<jjesse> you shhould give it a try
<wolfger> It's a developer release that distros are putting out as a finished product.
<snap-l> Seriously, if you decide to put Unity on your non-developer's machine, you deserve all of the pushback you'll receive
<wolfger> Or are you arguing that all the bugs will be gone by the end of the month?
<wolfger> 23 days
<wolfger> In 23 days, it's no longer "a developer's release"
<snap-l> wolfger: I'm arguing that if you're not willing to pony up and help fix or send in bug reports, you are welcome to get shit for it
<snap-l> wolfger: Bull
<wolfger> It's the default interface intended for Aunt Marge at that point
<snap-l> Anything that isn't a LTS is a developers release.
<wolfger> snap-l: bull
<rick_h__> yea, that's a little bull there
<wolfger> LTS is intended for businesses
<snap-l> I need a referee over here
<jjesse> or not developers
<rick_h__> I'm sorry, but if you go to the homepage and it says "download this now" up front...it's not a dev release
<rick_h__> it's a release release
<jjesse> didn't ted gould on twitter argue this
<jjesse> that LTS should be for users and the rolling release be for devs?
<wolfger> would be nice to have a rolling release...
<rick_h__> lol
<rick_h__> let's not go there
<jjesse> sorry 6 month release
<rick_h__> or you'll get accused of being an arch hippie
<rick_h__> :P brousch
<rick_h__> or sorry, was nixternal_
<wolfger> I vote we move to only releasing LTS every 18 months, and the ambitious can get 18 months of alpha/beta
<wolfger> effectively rolling release at that point
<snap-l> regardless (man, do I know how to open a can of worms)
<snap-l> I think Unity will be baked by the end of this month
<brousch> rick_h__: actually it was me and nixternal_ agreeing ;)
<snap-l> and if not, I hope Canonical has the fortitude to pull back
<wolfger> snap-l: I think you are dreaming on both counts
<snap-l> and I really, really hope that people give it a chance
<rick_h__> :) baked with a soft chewy not quite done center
<snap-l> wolfger: Maybe I am
<jjesse> wasn't there a recent post on planet.ubuntu.com on how they should be focusing on gnome classic or whatever it is called or a lot of people will move elsewhere when they can't get that to work cause they don't like unity?
<wolfger> Canonical is really showing its bull-headedness this past year
<brousch> i was surprised with how usable unity is right now
<brousch> it has some annoyances, but it is usable
<brousch> i think it will be better than gnome
<wolfger> brousch: aside from frequent crashes, I actually don't mind it much
<rick_h__> that's the thing to recall, it's not like gnome is treating it any better
<brousch> wolfger: i don't think there were any crashes on sunday. it was weird
<snap-l> I had a little oddness on my netbook, but that's about it
<snap-l> and in a VM, it's a little wonky
<wolfger> I haven't used Unity in about 2 weeks. I got sick of it and moved back to classic
<snap-l> UNity2d is not quite as baked as Unity3D, imho
<snap-l> wolfger: Don't be *that guy*
<snap-l> Press onward!
<wolfger> snap-l: Like I care? :-)
<snap-l> There's a lot of development still going on
<brousch> i predict wolfger will move to stodgy old opensuse
<wolfger> seriously, after the release it's not like I'll use Gnome *or* Unity
<snap-l> Well, I loved that too
<brousch> become crusty
<snap-l> Ryan from Ars was distro-hopping trying to get GNOME3 to work
<wolfger> brousch: I've tried to like OpenSuse, but I always fail.
<snap-l> wolfger: Yeah, you won't have as many clocks to run.;)
<snap-l> wolfger: only ONE clock, and it's in the corner
<brousch> lunch time. i predict i will come back to 300 new messages in this channel
<wolfger> again, the obsession with clocks. Is that all you Gnome people ever think about?
<snap-l> only when we want to really piss off the KDE folks. ;)
<snap-l> Imperial March just came on the stero.
<wolfger> Which radio station is that? :-)
<jrwren> if you want to stick with LTS, stick with LTS.
<jrwren> I love the 6mo cycle of ubuntu.
<snap-l> wolfger: Random album shuffle w/ Banshee
<wolfger> jrwren: why do you love it?
<wolfger> snap-l: that's disappointing. I was hoping there was something worth tuning in to in my car. :-p
<jcastro> oh man I missed the whole argument
<wolfger> slacker
<rick_h__> I love it as well, but I'm still on lucid with my 3 machines
<nixternal_> rick_h__: arch ftl recently. the high school kids aren't doing that great of a job right now maintaining it
<jcastro> nixternal: hahahaha
<jrwren> i love it because I get new bits ever 6mo that follows the gtk & gnome release cycle and mono too.
<jcastro> ok what did I miss, who hated what?
<jrwren> jcastro: ignore them, a couple trouble makers talking nonsense
<jcastro> I am sad, rick_h__ didn't flame me much on sunday. :(
<wolfger> jcastro:http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/
<jrwren> i'm on all natty now.
<jrwren> in fact, i'm going to recommend moving my work server.
<rick_h__> jcastro: hey, I think I've been very good, did the fair interview, being kind of niec :)
<jrwren> although it might be LTS
<nixternal> quick poll: am I the only one in here that kind of digs unity?
<snap-l> nixternal: I like Unity
<jrwren> jcastro: we didn't smoke either.
<rick_h__> nixternal: yes, you're a very lonely man
<jrwren> i love unity.
<snap-l> I'd like some more customization, but overall I'm happy with it.
<jrwren> i showed coworkers. i really talked it up.
<jrwren> i do find myself saying "just like mac" a lot
<wolfger> nixternal: I would like it except for the way it stole the menu bar off the windows and moved it to the top of the screen. That's really sucky.
<jrwren> lack of discoverability of system prefs is the biggest deal IMO
<jcastro> jrwren: it's in the power menu
<jcastro> for some reason
<rick_h__> well I think discoverability is a big thing
<jcastro> imo it would be in the me menu, the one that says Jay Wren
<rick_h__> a lot of the answers out of Sunday were "there's a key binding for that"
<wolfger> jrwren: I just chalked lack of system prefs up to "it's gnome" :-p
<jrwren> jcastro: that makes a lot of sense.
<jcastro> rick_h__: oh so I asked around, there will indeed be videos and intro docs and stuff, I just didn't know about  that
<rick_h__> jcastro: cool, good idea
<jcastro> I find it funny that people whine more about prefs than you know .... getting work done
<jcastro> "If I can't change the background of the panel then FUCK THIS."
<jrwren> its more KB/Mouse prefs. its hard to get work done when all the prefs you alawys use aren't there.
<snap-l> jcastro: I have to say, the "power menu" is both a blessing and a curse
<jrwren> first thing I did was build monodevelop because that is hwo I "get work done" :)
<rick_h__> ok jcastro, that's a bit unfair considering the whole "let's make it pretty!" vs you know...getting work done :)
<snap-l> it's part gnome-do, and part obfuscation
<jcastro> rick_h__: let's be pretty is a side effect
<snap-l> Honestly, even if Unity had a "preferences" widget, that would be a huge improvement
<jcastro> we could have made a prefs widget on sunday with a few hackers
<jcastro> rick_h__: bookie looks sweet btw, surprised no one had ever used that name before
<snap-l> http://www.downloadatoz.com/resources/201103/24/imgs/mac-os-x-capture_500x313.jpg
<snap-l> jcastro: How would you change the defaults like that?
<rick_h__> jcastro: cool, yea I did a search for it and didn't run into anything
<snap-l> I'm thinking just something like System Settings / keep in launcher
<jcastro> snap-l: we do it with ccsm, one just needs to make a nice UI on top of it
<jcastro> oh do you mean for the launcher itself or for the entire system?
<jrwren> keep in launcher is alreayd there? or are we talking different things.
<snap-l> I mean for the launcher itself
<snap-l> screenshot time
<snap-l> http://ubuntuone.com/p/l19/
<jrwren> snap-l: EXACTLY!
<snap-l> You've promoted the Ubuntu store, and U1; why not promote the settings?
<wolfger> jcastro: If "let's be pretty" was really a side effect of "get work done" as you say, then I think Awesome WM would be the prettiest desktop in the world.
<jcastro> right
<jcastro> of course
<wolfger> but clearly, that's an incorrect correlation
<jcastro> tiling window managers for people
<wolfger> contradiction in terms :-)
<rick_h__> lol
<snap-l> hey, hey (*snap* *snap*), I'm making an important point here
<wolfger> also, not enough clocks. (or so snap-l says)
<wolfger> Oh, right. Snap-l did make an important point that was lost in the banter...
<snap-l> jcastro: http://ubuntuone.com/p/l19/
<jcastro> snap-l: top right corner "system settings"
<snap-l> no
<snap-l> That's buried
<jcastro> ok so add it there?
<rick_h__> it should be an icon on the desktop in the middle of the wallpaper
<rick_h__> like coming through the light beams!
<snap-l> why would you put that under a power symbol?
<jcastro> dunno, I think it should be in the me menu
<jcastro> but still, it's in a top level menu
<jcastro> the launcher is for apps
<snap-l> And system settings is an app
<jcastro> you really think that putting a shortcut to configure your computer is something that belongs on the launcher?
<snap-l> You could make the same case for "Find files"
<snap-l> Yes
<jcastro> you know, for when you want to change your hostname!
<snap-l> try i
<snap-l> t
<snap-l> I bet more people will stop bitching
<snap-l> Even Apple puts it on the dock
<snap-l> and on the home screen of iOS
<snap-l> It's not discoverable until you want to power down the machine
<snap-l> or lock the screen
<snap-l> What's the first thing you do with a new computer? Open up Word? Start up a browser?
<snap-l> Maybe, but I'll put money that in the top three things you do with ANY computer is personalize it
<snap-l> "Hey, how do I change the screensaver?" "Hey, how do I change the background?" "How do I change the theme?"
<rick_h__> first thing I do: http://paste.mitechie.com/show/276/
<snap-l> rick_h__: Personalize.
<jcastro> 12:42 <snap-l> What's the first thing you do with a new computer? Open up Word? Start up a browser?
<jcastro> ^^^ Yes, I fire up the browser
<jcastro> sure those things are nice, I just think you're overinflating it's importance
<snap-l> jcastro: But I'll bet that the third thing you do is try to customize it
<snap-l> jcastro: I'm not
<snap-l> Mark my words, you'll get flamed for leaving it in the power menu
<jcastro> right
<jcastro> I know that
<snap-l> and you'll have to tell EVERYONE where the settings are
<snap-l> and it's a _simple fix_
<jcastro> if you want
<jcastro> we can put unity on jill's computer
<jcastro> and then we'll blind time it
<jcastro> and see when she asks how she can customize the launcher
<jcastro> I'll get the spare bedroom ready
<snap-l> If you want, we can do the same with JoDee
<wolfger> jcastro: Seriously? It's under the power menu??!? I only go there when I'm shutting down.
<snap-l> wolfger: ++
<jcastro> wolfger: yeah, I don't like it there
<wolfger> That is, if I don't simply type "sudo reboot" in my open term window, which I do most of the time
<wolfger> because it's quicker
<jcastro> right
<jcastro> that's what I do
<jcastro> or, just close the lid
<wolfger> powering down is for chumps. :-)
<jcastro> what should I have for lunch
<jcastro> I'll let the channel decide for me!
<snap-l> crow
<snap-l> ;)
<rick_h__> ouch
<wolfger> LOL
<jcastro> boooo
<snap-l> jcastro: What are you in the mood for, and what time limits?
<jcastro> anything
<jcastro> I like about an hour tops
<jcastro> carry outish
<wolfger> where are you located?
<snap-l> Red Coat doesn't do carryo out, do they?
<rick_h__> the deli brings sandwhiches to work so just got one of those
<jcastro> wolfger: Royal oak
<wolfger> Bah. I don't know the area. Lemme google if my suggestion exists there
<snap-l> jcastro: I'd personally do Pei Wei
<jcastro> oooh
<jcastro> it is right next door
<snap-l> wolfger: Think Woodward Ave.
<jcastro> and I can walk
<jcastro> I will do that
<rick_h__> really? i've seen a few of those but seemed like a bad idea
<snap-l> Pei Wei is awesome
<snap-l> think PFChangs without the Chang Sauce and the 40 minute wair
<nixternal> can you guys wait 4.5 hours? I will be there, I am hungry!
<wolfger> LOL! I went to their website (Kalamata) and they have a "Locations" (notice the "s") link, but their only location (no "s") is in Troy
<rick_h__> future proof!
<wolfger> Pei Wei ftw
<wolfger> PF Changs food without PF Changs price
<snap-l> or PF Changs wait
<snap-l> it's pretty damn quick
<snap-l> Can do dinner in under 20 minutes if you time it right
<wolfger> If you're ever in Troy (say, for Penguicon) remember to try Kalamata
<wolfger> I recommend the gyro "Detroit style"
<wolfger> and greek fries
<snap-l> Will have to try that
<wolfger> or spinach pie
<nixternal> wolfger: pf changs has the awesome lunch menu thing though that is super cheap. what is weird is you guys say you have a wait at pf changes, here there is never a wait
<snap-l> I'm always in the mood for greek food
<snap-l> nixternal: Lunch yes, Dinner it's nigh impossible
<nixternal> dinner here you can walk right in, even the one at woodfield mall is never packed. i don't think we have ever had to wait
<wolfger> nixternal: Here there is almost always a line out the door at dinnertime. Not sure about lunch
<nixternal> wow, just find it weird that it isn't like that here at all
<snap-l> nixternal: Could be declining over there as well
<nixternal> you guys do know though that pf changes puts all of their recipes online so you can make it at home? they have open source recipes
<wolfger> sweet
<snap-l> I did not know that.
<nixternal> my mom has been making some of them, liek the singapore street noodles....num num
<wolfger> but does that include how to make the sauces?
<nixternal> wolfger: yes
<wolfger> truly awesome
<snap-l> They have some, but not seeing them all
<nixternal> my mom could work for pf changs, she makes the sauces to the t
<nixternal> snap-l: they don't have them all on there anymore?
<snap-l> I'm looking under Chef's Corner
<snap-l> soemwhere else I should be looking?
<nixternal> yeah, i don't know where to look, i just remember my mom telling me about that last year
<snap-l> There's a forum that has some of them
<snap-l> maybe they rotate them
<nixternal> i can tell you though, the ones my mom has done, like the singapore street noodles, the lettuce wraps, and a couple of others, have been dead on
<snap-l> lettuce wraps are dead easy. :)
<nixternal> i think i could live off of lettuce wraps
<snap-l> and yes, they're awesome
<nixternal> well the chicken and the sauce
<wolfger> lettuce wraps and sake...
<nixternal> now i am wanting some damn sushi
<wolfger> ew
<nixternal> i am not a big fan of pf changes. there are just to many awesome chinese, japanese, and thai places here
<snap-l> nixternal: That may be the other reason that PF Changs isn't packed.;)
<nixternal> more than likely
<wolfger> nixternal: if you ever get a chance, go to a Thai restaurant called Cabages & Condoms
<nixternal> though if you ever been to the one in vegas, you can never get in there, you need to make a reservation like the day before
<nixternal> wtf is that place at wolfger
<jrwren> pfchange.. gross ;)
<wolfger> Well, it's a chain. The one I went to was in Kumamoto, Japan
<wolfger> not sure where else you might find one
<wolfger> But the sign was in English
<nixternal> I think I will wait to go back to Japan for a bit now :p  though I could always head up to vancouver for the 2nd best sushi in the world
<nixternal> if it is a chain, they only show one location on their website
<wolfger> Hmm. Like Kalamata. :-)
<wolfger> I could be wrong, but the menu certainly made it sound like it was a chain.
<_stink__> Kalamata++ for sure
<jrwren> what is Red Coat?
<_stink__> local tavern-type place in Royal Oak.
<_stink__> some kind of fancy burgers, fish and chips, etc.
<jrwren> sounds like a RedHook we have here in AA
<jrwren> err... no that is the brewery... wtf is it on State Stree?
<jrwren> RedHawk.
<_stink__> jrwren: heh, was just there on Saturday.
<_stink__> got the Cuban Hero.
<wolfger> Red*
<jrwren> cool.
<jrwren> _stink__: couldn't make it on sunday?
<_stink__> jrwren: yeah, was in AA meeting family on Sat.  Sunday was reserved for other crap, like fixing drywall and other fun things. :/
<_stink__> we took our kids to Hash Bash.  unwittingly.
<jrwren> lol
<jrwren> was that on saturday? wow. its much lower key these days.
<_stink__> jrwren: 40th anniverary, apparently.
<_stink__> more people than we expected
<binbrain> jrwren: RE: red coat, best hamburger joint around, haven't found anything close competition wise, even in NYC, great beer selection to
<snap-l> http://www.gibraltartrade.com/blessingofbikes.php
<brousch> shipit is dead. now i have to beg my free cds off of greg-g
<jjesse> now we all have to beg greg-g
<jrwren> binbrain: WOW!  blimpie burger in AA?
<brousch> blimpie ftw
<jrwren> what kind of burger?  giant pattie "gormet" like redrobin being the cheapest kind?
<jrwren> or tiny multi pattie slop burger like blimpie ?
<binbrain> jrwren: haven't had blimpie but would love to find out, but I'll have to rely on your judgment call if you ever get a chance to compare with red coat
<brousch> my wife begged me to bring a blimpie burger home for her sunday, but i dared not venture to campus during hash bash
<jrwren> I finally had a 5 guys... mmm...
<_stink__> jrwren: more like the giant pattie kind at Red Coat.
<jrwren> brousch: oh man, we walk to blimpie occasionally from work (where you were) you could have done it.
<brousch> sottinis was closed
<brousch> 20lbs of my gut is 10 year old sottini subs
<binbrain> not gimmicky like RR, it can be as messy as you order it, my fav is with burned onions, smoked gouda, cooked med rare
<binbrain> plus they have my favorite beer of all time, Skull Splitter, http://tinyurl.com/693k5l2
<brousch> that's it. we're going on a family trip to AA this summer. gotta visit some old friends and stomping grounds (blimpie, museum of natural history)
<jjesse> i ate at a place called "The Burger Joint" or BGR in Alexandria VA, best burger i've had in a long time
<wolfger> Man, we missed our chance... We should have had a Bug Jam Hash Bash joint venture. :-D
<wolfger> Bug Bash Jam Hash
<brousch> smoke the bugs out
<wolfger> brousch: did you just say "get high and Unity will look alright"? ;-)
<snap-l> bah
<rick_h__> jcastro: this is scary though http://blog.dustinkirkland.com/2011/04/hard-lesson-learned-hard-way-about-ssds.html
<jcastro> rick_h__: I was one of the ones who told him to go intel
<jcastro> though it's nice he found a linux friendly recovery place
<rick_h__> yea, very cool
<rick_h__> but yea, that's why this intel not being the best sucks
<rick_h__> it was nice to know exactly what to get, who to trust, etc
<rick_h__> when you starting opening up to all those vendors it's hard to tell what's going to last
<nixternal> 12:38:31 [    jrwren] I finally had a 5 guys... mmm...    -- dude, keep your nasty fetishes to yourself from now on!
<nixternal> we have something better than 5 guys, it is called...ummm...ahhh, hrmmm. damn, i can't remember
<nixternal> it is like 5 guys, but actually better
<snap-l> two girls?
<nixternal> meatheads is the name
<nixternal> they are similar in price, maybe a touch cheaper
<wolfger> snap-l: two girls is good
<snap-l> Looks like Shipit is defunct
<snap-l> (getting your own personal CD without a loco contact)
<snap-l> I think it's about time
<brousch> two girls one burger?
<jrwren> i don't like sottinis
<brousch> you suck
<brousch> flickr is much nicer than i remember it being. easy to make groups, share, etc. i remember it being very clumsy before
<jrwren> run-one looks cool. i didn't know about it.
<jrwren> run-this-one I don't think I'd use.
<snap-l> brousch: http://www.amazon.com/Panorama-Modest-Mussorgsky/dp/B00004W3IV/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
<snap-l> That's the album that I have of Modest Mussorgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition
<brousch> hah, a name i have only heard in a monty python song
<brousch> decomposing composers
<brousch> i think my son will love this daniel bautista album
<snap-l> Yeah, it's pretty cool
<brousch> any music i can get him to like dilutes the number of baby einstein songs on his ipod
<snap-l> I didn't want to play anything too obvious off of that album. :)
<snap-l> and I think he did an amazing job of translating the orchestral piece into guitar
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qZcM4lLnOY
<jrwren> baby einstein? seriously?
<snap-l> jrwren: I made the mistake of listening to that shit
<snap-l> (baby einstein)
<jrwren> why?
<brousch> the music without singing isn't too bad
<snap-l> for my niece to find a song that she liked
<jrwren> IIRC it has been scientifically proven to make kids stupider.
<brousch> jrwren: that's the videos
<snap-l> it's essentially all synthesized classical done poorly.
<brousch> which are utterly and completely stupid
<snap-l> jrwren: Totally agree
<jrwren> http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1650352,00.html
<snap-l> jrwren: I remember reading about that
<brousch> the videos are just slideshows of random crap like stuffed animals
<snap-l> The song was poulette
<snap-l> brousch: Not random... they're designed to make the kids want whatever toy they see
<brousch> snap-l: have you done a drummer-centric version of omc?
<snap-l> brousch: Ummm... pretty much every show. ;)
<brousch> a half hour of drum solos
<Milyardo> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIDHYqE0Jg4
<snap-l> brousch: I think people would want me dead.
<brousch> with 20 minutes of your commentary about each one afterwards
<snap-l> Milyardo: I love the top comment on that video: "This is the music that Chuck Norris uses to make toast"
<snap-l> brousch: I would want me dead after that
<snap-l> surprisingly enough, I can find guitar stuff all day
<snap-l> and keyboard stuff
<snap-l> but few drum solos online
<snap-l> (note: CC-licensed)
<Milyardo> snap-l: It's probably true
<snap-l> brousch: just for you: http://www.jamendo.com/en/track/233537
<snap-l> This is why there's no drum-centric show
<brousch> ut oh
<DBO> admissions of a unity developer: when debugging compiz I talk to myself because it's that boring.
<DBO> and I'm that crazy
<windows_> snap-l: any idea what the MUG topic is this month?
<brousch> snap-l: i want you dead now
<snap-l> windows_: Byobu
<snap-l> A screen replacement with lots of features
<snap-l> windows_: Also a command of the month (I _think_ it's going to be "Expect")
<snap-l> and a little presentation by the ESD on the benefits of membership
<windows_> cool
<snap-l> also, the usual fun-times banter that comes with any MUG meeting
<windows_> how did the last meeting go?
<snap-l> Pretty good. Some schoo was up there talking about podcasting
<snap-l> s/schoo/schmoo/
<windows_> ;)
<jrwren> windows_: ???
<jrwren> who is windows_ ?
<jrwren> dave?
<jrwren> oh, Jason.
<snap-l> http://danmeth.com/post/4365873423/sandworms
<jrwren> ya'll ever see this in your apache access logs? /w00tw00t.at.ISC.SANS.DFind: or /w00tw00t.at.blackhats.romanian.anti-sec: ?
<jrwren> http://tinyurl.com/3cumuzf
<jrwren> :)
<jrwren> zomg, plone framework team recruiting
<snap-l> man, we get a lot of door-to-door salesfolks in this neighborhood
<snap-l> someone trying to sell me uverse
<snap-l> I asked her if she could give me 5Mbps upload. :)
<rick_h__> heh, if you get that let me know
<rick_h__> but do <3 my uverse
<snap-l> rick_h__: Considering that the max is 3Mbps, not happening. :)
<snap-l> or at least AT&T's max is 3Mbps
<snap-l> But I love the sales ploy.
<snap-l> "Have you been out to enjoy this lovely weather?"
<rick_h__> ??
<snap-l> "I motioned her to cut to the chase"
<rick_h__> that's dsl
<rick_h__> uverse starts at 8, and goes up to 18
<snap-l> rick_h__: Try an upload test
<rick_h__> oh, upload yea,...1.5 :(
<snap-l> I meant upload, not download
<snap-l> Yeah, they're all about the download
<snap-l> Also, they apparently put in data caps.
<rick_h__> yea, they're big, but there are caps
<snap-l> and my phone bill is pretty consistent.
<snap-l> I should put up a sign above my doorbell "For sarcastic commentary about your product, press here"
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-04-06
<jcastro> http://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/gjgqe/trying_out_a_new_application_pic/
<rick_h__> lol, wonder what haskell thing he was trying
<rick_h__> nvm, xmonad window manager probably
<snap-l> jcastro: I did a user study. :)
<jcastro> hahaha
<jcastro> really?
<snap-l> Seriously.
<snap-l> Uploading it
<rick_h__> man, you got snap-l motivated
<jcastro> I used his hatred of me to do user testing
<jcastro> see what I did there?
<snap-l> It's not hatred of you.
<jcastro> heh
<snap-l> It's hatred of not having nice things. :)
<jcastro> man
<jcastro> I have been watching a bunch of arnold movies lately
<jcastro> and I now realize where I get my vocabulary from
<snap-l> GET TO THE CHOPPA
<snap-l> wait wait wait wait
<snap-l> http://ubuntuone.com/p/l6O/ <- When it finally uploads. :)
<snap-l> jcastro: It finished
<snap-l> http://ubuntuone.com/p/l6O/
<jcastro> snap-l: can you send me an email with this? something I can fwd on?
<jcastro> (sorry in the middle of testing stuff and my desktop is crashing)
<snap-l> Send that link on. I'll keep it on there full-cycle
<jjesse> snap-l how slow download on that link
<snap-l> jjesse: You'll want to save it first
<snap-l> and that's Ubuntu One. ;)
<_stink__> snap-l: i only saw like the first 20 seconds of that video... and i was hoping hoping hoping that she would chuck something at the screen after seeing her initial reaction
<snap-l> JonathanD: Mail sent
<snap-l> er, jcastro, mail sent.
<rick_h__> geeze, how big is this thing snap-l ?
<snap-l> 267MB
<rick_h__> I thought I wsa downloading slow and moved to wget, but getting 1M+
<jjesse> yeaht it is taking forver
<rick_h__> crap, saved as index.html
<snap-l> I could try moving it to dropbox
<rick_h__> what's the file supposed to be?
<snap-l> mvi_3175.avi
<snap-l> It's a video of JoDee using Natty for the first time
<rick_h__> yea, I got that based off her tweet
<rick_h__> now I must see
<Blazeix_> I like that the second thing she looked for was a terminal. And the third was emacs.
<Blazeix_> though I think Unity probably wasn't quite as user-friendly since the virtualbox window didn't capture the mouse.
<snap-l> Yeah, just a hair
<rick_h__> lol, "love ya jorge, later"
 * greg-g waves from Denver
<snap-l> greg-g: Hello Denver
<snap-l> say hi to Gilligan for us
<greg-g> ?
<snap-l> Bob Denver
<greg-g> ah
<snap-l> http://fukung.net/v/5127/fonziesocks.jpg
<snap-l> http://fukung.net/v/18244/darkvador.jpg
<wolfger> morning
<tjagoda> yo
<brousch> someone needs to bring me some coffee
<wolfger> someone needs to inject the coffee I have intrvenously.
<wolfger> walk around with one of those hospital hat-racks and a caffeine drip straight to my arm
<brousch> make it so. sell it on thinkgeek
<wolfger> Look for it next April ;-)
<wolfger> So is Penguicon even happening this year?
<tjagoda> I sure hope so
<wolfger> It's like 22 or 23 days away, and I haven't seen a schedule yet
<tjagoda> It's been tweeted
<tjagoda> Its not my fault you fail to follow the proper media channels =P
<wolfger> well there's your problem. Twitter is dead
<tjagoda> That not my problem
<tjagoda> I
<tjagoda> m
<tjagoda> not incharge of schedule
<tjagoda> in charge*
<wolfger> what happened to the annual penguicon-general mailing list post calling for proofreaders?
<tjagoda> They're behind the gun
<tjagoda> The tech guy didn't do much
<tjagoda> and then the DIY guy got overwhelmed
<tjagoda> so they're scrambling in please-dont-suck mode atm
<tjagoda> So
<tjagoda> while you whine about a finished schedule
<tjagoda> somebody's probably trying to make sure any tech programming /exists/ =p
<brousch> i should have seen a spam announcement about penguicon on all of my email lists 45 days before the event. i think i saw one thing from tjagoda
<tjagoda> Don't worry
<tjagoda> I run next year
<tjagoda> Linux shall rule the convention
<brousch> my theory is that it got too scary and weird so now you're stuck with scary weirdos organizing the thing
<tjagoda> Nah
<tjagoda> just had leadership this year
<tjagoda> people got lazy
<rick_h__> lol
<tjagoda> Unless I'm a scary weirdo
<tjagoda> in which case you must be right
<wolfger> tjagoda == !scary && weird
<rick_h__> so he's weird then
<tjagoda> I haven't yet been able to master both simultaneously
 * wolfger suspect brousch scares easy, though
<tjagoda> We'll have to find some furries or something =P
<wolfger> http://penguicon.org/events.php hurts my brain
<wolfger> this is really awful web design for a theoretically tech-oriented con
<tjagoda> I KNOW
<tjagoda> My web guy wants to switch to wordpress
<tjagoda> versus the custom ugly CMS we use now
<wolfger> and what is with the "timeslot" column?
<tjagoda> uhh
<tjagoda> I dont know
<wolfger> "06 9PM"... Is that supposed to be 6-9 PM? Or 9PM lasting for 06 hours? Or wtf?
<tjagoda> "Most anticipated games is 07 10PM"
<tjagoda> i dont think it is either 7 hours long nor more than one hour
<wolfger> Would be nice if the schedule was time-ordered and not title-ordered
<wolfger> because, you know, it's a SCHEDULE!
<tjagoda> As long as the book works
<tjagoda> I dont care
<tjagoda> As i transfer files out of my old work laptop into my new one
<tjagoda> the old harddisk sounds very thrashey
<tjagoda> It was a good time to upgrade
<wolfger> Here's one for brousch: "Anthropomorphic Fandom Discussion"
<snap-l> I saw the call for proofreading call
<snap-l> though I don't recall which list it was on
<wolfger> I saw a website proofreading call.
<wolfger> which is what made me think "hmm, shouldn't we have proofread a schedule by now?"
<brousch> omg. a company gave us a login to their ftp server so we could download drawings from them. apparently they gave us full rights. we can delete things and upload things
<tjagoda> lolol
<wolfger> it's nice to be trusted?
<snap-l> whoops
<tjagoda> or to work with stupid companies
<brousch> they also use some freeware spam system that adds an ad to the bottom of all of their emails
<snap-l> jcastro: Did you watch that video?
<snap-l> I must have my user testing acknowledged, or I'll whine on the blogosphere that Canonical doesn't care about my needs.
<tjagoda> ?
<snap-l> tjagoda: I did a video showing JoDee's first exposure to Natty
<rick_h__> snap-l: lol, that was a bit loaded user testing
<snap-l> and unity
<snap-l> rick_h__: It was a little bit, but I wanted to make a point
<snap-l> I'm not saying it's scientific
<snap-l> It's not like I pulled some schmoo off the street and handed them a computer
<brousch> url?
<snap-l> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9058804/mvi_3175.avi
<snap-l> and it's also not JoDee's machine
<snap-l> she doesn't use lister for her day-to-day, so yes, it was a little stilted
<snap-l> Although JoDee did pretty much do what she does first on a new computer: bring up NOAA and make it the homepage.
<rick_h__> yea, was funny that part was just FF4
<jcastro> watching it now
<jcastro> oh boo snap-l you should have at least fullscreened it
<rick_h__> but there was some poking and prodding at wanting to configure
<snap-l> jcastro: Yeah, I suck
<rick_h__> lol
<rick_h__> we need to send snap-l to user testing school. Then he can run clinics here in MI
<rick_h__> guess I'd better ping that testing lady for the interview
<jcastro> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1721627
<rick_h__> ugh, reason #154 why I never visit the forums any more
<jcastro> yeah tell me about it
<tjagoda> ugh
<tjagoda> I love how geeks tear everything to shreds and debate on tiny bits and irrelevant pieces
<snap-l> tjagoda: Yeah, it keeps the real work from happening. :)
<snap-l> What's to say that askubuntu.com won't suffer the same fate of outdated info?
<rick_h__> http://jmtd.net/log/aero/ I give it 5 years and everyone will be tiling :)
<wolfger> Forum poll voted on and responded to :-)
<tjagoda> nice
<jcastro> snap-l: you can always update any part of it
<jcastro> I can never go update your "guide to emacs" on a forum
<snap-l> wolfger: Always ready to put the fire out with gasoline, aren't you.
<snap-l> jcastro: Well, you can post something about 80 pages into my "guide to emacs" forum post that says that the original post is going to cause your computer to go purple.
<jcastro> exactly.
<jcastro> or if it's wrong I can fix it, or vote to bury it
<snap-l> but yeah, at least on ask ubuntu, you can score it lower
<jcastro> it works very well on SO, and they're like 50 times bigger than us
<snap-l> Just as long as all of the hints for getting games in wine running is preserved, I'm happy.
<jcastro> heh
<jcastro> I would love it if the forums just moved the howtos and stuff over
<jcastro> and left the forums for people to do forums-type things
<snap-l> The forums took over the less formal piece of launchpad
<jcastro> but it's ok, if that guy thinks that keeping his old out of date information as an "archive" is good for the internet then I hope he stays there.
<jcastro> people don't realize how poisonous outdated information
<jcastro> is
<jcastro> (sorry forgot the is)
<jcastro> it's because of that crap in the forums that we have like that guy using fwcutter or whatever stupid thing he was doing on sunday
<snap-l> It would be better if someone kept updating it
<snap-l> I've done a few searches on things that have shown up: first thing you do for 8.04
<snap-l> and my heart sinks a bit
<jcastro> when instead what we should be doing is finding every instance of ndiswrapper docs and nuking it from space
<snap-l> jcastro: And beligerant that his process had to change.
<jcastro> his way was harder!
<jcastro> I mean, plug in an ethernet cable!
<snap-l> No shit
<wolfger> snap-l: yes sir!
<snap-l> and he mounted his old 8.04 instance and copied over the firmware
<jcastro> the other guy had a hard time believing me too, but when he saw it working I could see the learning in his eyes
<snap-l> and got it working!
<snap-l> to which I said "then quitcherbitching"
<jcastro> I wouldn't say working
<jcastro> it's a workaround
<jcastro> now he has some old ass firmware on his machine
<jcastro> who knows what bugs ...
<snap-l> Well, Ubuntu sucks anyway. ;)
<jcastro> buy another mac!
<snap-l> I'm moving to slackware, where they appreciate my 100 line script to set up a network connection
<snap-l> it only requires 40 tweaks to get it working in the coffeeshop
<wolfger> forum archives are an invaluable resource. Not everybody is using the latest-n-greatest, and also we can learn from the past.
<snap-l> My favorite was that the development packages weren't in the software store.
<snap-l> wolfger: They need to be moved to another source
<wolfger> The problem here is, you have some people wanting to hide the archives from view to protect stupid people from hurting themselves.
<wolfger> Move to another source, fine
<wolfger> as long as Google can still find it
<snap-l> I agree that the information might be usefu, but a forum posting is not terribly useful to deploy that info
<wolfger> I don't care where on the net the info is located, as long as it's there
<snap-l> and you can get a caveat on the main page of "hey, times changed, and if you do this on > xx.xx, then you'll bust your machine
<wolfger> and 9 times out of 10, Google gives me an  Ubuntu forums archive answer
<snap-l> If the forums want toorganize a "best of the forums" move, then I'd love to see them do that.
<wolfger> ...
<wolfger> the time and energy to do that could be so much better spent
<tjagoda> I would quietly auto-nuke any old forum postings without telling the community
<snap-l> could be, yes... should be? not sure.
<tjagoda> I get so pissed when I google for ubuntu help and I find results from 2005
<tjagoda> or 2006
<snap-l> tjagoda: Glad you brought the flint for wolfger's gasoline.
<tjagoda> Its like a tradition
<tjagoda> =p
<brousch> dangit, this is still broken in natty https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/496093
<wolfger> I would quietly nuke tjagoda without telling anybody
<tjagoda> It clearly says "fix released"
<tjagoda> Foolish you
<tjagoda> expecting it to be in the OS
<tjagoda> =P
<brousch> it lies
<ColonelPanic001> I gave up ever expecting the p-con site to be updated before the event starts
<ColonelPanic001> I just show up and hope it has something other than furries and random things I don't care about
<ColonelPanic001> Also gave up telling people to go to Penguicon, because I can never tell them wtf will be there
<brousch> that implies that you care about furries
<tjagoda> ColonelPanic001: I WILL FIX YOU
<_stink__> good catch
<ColonelPanic001> brousch: I DO WHAT I WANT
<ColonelPanic001> :P
<wolfger> ColonelPanic001: I always tell people to go to Penguicon *because* you never know wtf will be there!
<brousch> not that there's anything wrong with that
<ColonelPanic001> it's a little surreal to talk to someone about ham radio for 10 minutes, and have him just casually mention going to furry conventions, as though it's the most natural thing in the world
<wolfger> it is
<wolfger> isn't it?
<ColonelPanic001> I personally don't *mind* furries, but it's still unusual to hear about so casually
<ColonelPanic001> in any case, yeah.
<brousch> i suspect a large overlap among furries and ham operators
<ColonelPanic001> a weekend and a trip is too much go say "meh, we'll see if it was worth it when I get there"
<ColonelPanic001> I mean, I'm going this year, but I wouldn't tell someone else to go without actually being able to tell them wtf is there
<snap-l> ColonelPanic001: Penguicon is what you make of it
<brousch> i imagine most ham operators wear their furry garb while hamming
<snap-l> if you are waiting to be disappointed, you will be disappointed
<ColonelPanic001> especially after last year. First things on the schedule for a "sf and open source" con? New-agey chakra aura bullshit.
<ColonelPanic001> snap-l: I loved Penguicon. I would love nothing more than to have it be awesome again. I still really like it.
<wolfger> ColonelPanic001: There was chakra aura stuff? I must have overlooked that while I was busy doing cool stuff.
<ColonelPanic001> wolfger: I didn't go either. I was trying to find the cool stuff in advance
<ColonelPanic001> a week in advance.
<wolfger> Yeah... I can remember the good old days when I actually planned out Penguicon weeks in advance....
<wolfger> Now I'm scratching my head with no idea what's going on.
<wolfger> I want whoever used to be in charge of the scheduling to be in charge of it every year
<brousch> tjagoda will fix it all next year
<wolfger> tjagoda: make it so
<ColonelPanic001> I don't *mind* aura woo-woo stuff being at the con - I love the variety. I want the focus to be on science, science fiction, and FOSS stuff, that's all. it's become a mash of all things strange or odd. I love the strangeness and oddness, I just want it to regain focus
<snap-l> ColonelPanic001: ++
<ColonelPanic001> I emailed last *June* to do a talk about ham radio. We first heard back in october with nothing really, then just a month or two ago
<wolfger> but I have no doubt that I will still have fun, and I will still have several instances of omgwtfbbq how can I choose one of these 4 or 5 cool things to attend at 3PM?
<ColonelPanic001> wtf do they do at those "meetings"?
<ColonelPanic001> or on the mailing list?
<ColonelPanic001> I don't have time to do it now, that's why I emailed nearly a year ago
<wolfger> ColonelPanic001++
<wolfger> on the "regain focus"
<snap-l> I couldn't even tell you who is a GOH outside of Brian Sanderson
<ColonelPanic001> I don't mean to bitch, I still love penguicon. But, that's why it gets to me a bit. Penguicon is f'ing awesome. I want it to stay that way.
<wolfger> who?
<wolfger> :-)
 * ColonelPanic001 puts away his soapbox.
<snap-l> I don't think there was anyone who was proactive in the tech piece this year.
<snap-l> And whomever did it underestimated the contributions of the loco / user groups
<jrwren> is there any way to tell google reader to NOT automatically expire old unread posts?
<ColonelPanic001> I've never used it, sorry
<snap-l> jrwren: I didn't know it did that?
<jrwren> yeah.
<snap-l> You sure it's not the feed itself?
<jrwren> i can't use it ot track what I haven't read yet, because if too much time goes by things just drop off of the "unread" list into the Old list.
<jrwren> i'm 100% positive. things worked great in bloglines.
<snap-l> Which feeds are you noticing this in?
<jrwren> all
<jrwren> i have over 1000 subscriptions.
<ColonelPanic001> jrwren reads too much.
<jrwren> e.g. lococast, I've never read or listened too, but reader only says I have 10 unread.
<ColonelPanic001> that's just Google Reader screaming in agony.
<jrwren> yeah, i can't believe people embraced this POS when bloglines was out there.
<jrwren> its just proof that google is just liek apple, people go ga-ga over their shit and ignore peoples other superior products.
<jrwren> its just like the "i want an iphone" skit "it grands you 3 wishes... i don't care."
<ColonelPanic001> heh
<ColonelPanic001> I generally avoid google stuff when it's not the clear superior. I like their email service, but I use netvibes for RSS
<ColonelPanic001> Piwik insead of google analytics
<jrwren> piwik eh? I should try them.
<jrwren> is that a service or a run yourself?
<jrwren> I should run awstats against my site too, but I don't.
<ColonelPanic001> I'm not a power user, but it works well enough for me
<ColonelPanic001> piwik is, yeah. JUst a PHP webapp you install
<ColonelPanic001> I liked the fact that it's self-hosted. Scary to think how many sites you go to that call Google.
<jrwren> true.
<ColonelPanic001> that was my main reason.
<jrwren> i'm going to play with it. thanks for that tip.
<ColonelPanic001> np, good luck
<ColonelPanic001> It's not as pretty as GA, not as featureful, but I just was looking for some basic traffic analytics
<ColonelPanic001> and something not google
<brousch> jrwren: piwik is a one click install at dreamhost. maybe at bluehost too?
<ColonelPanic001> didn't know that, awesome
<jrwren> http://msdn.microsoft.com/de-de/magazine/gg983490%28en-us%29.aspx   "As a longtime Python programmer..."
<jrwren> brousch: i'll check, sounds awesome.
<brousch> ColonelPanic001: came in about 2 or 3 months ago
<ColonelPanic001> nice
<jrwren> ColonelPanic001: the screenshots from the piwik website had it looking nicer than GA
<ColonelPanic001> jrwren: might be updated since I last did it, then
<ColonelPanic001> then again too, I haven't used GA in ages
<snap-l> jrwren: Yeah, you do need to clean out Google Reader every now and again
<jrwren> i need ot clean it out? why?
<snap-l> We used piwik at sf.net. It's... different.
<snap-l> jrwren: read the articles?
<snap-l> Otherwise it's essentially dead to you anyway?
<snap-l> pick out the ones you want to read, and star them
<snap-l> and dump the rest.
<jrwren> riht, but i want to be able to read stuff from 6mo ago that i never read.
<jrwren> that scenario is unsupported :(
<jrwren> thus google reader doesn't support the way I read
<jrwren> and so I hate it.
<snap-l> jrwren: Then use a different reader
<jrwren> i shall.
<jrwren> its just a pain, because I migrted from bloglines
<snap-l> personally I would freak out if I had 1000+ unread items
<jrwren> now I have to move back.
<jrwren> i've had 3000+ unread items.
<jrwren> its no big deal.
<jrwren> read the good stuff.
<tjagoda> I'm trying to get Shuttleworth as a Tech GoH for 2012
<jrwren> skim the uninteresting.
<snap-l> How do you pick out the good stuff from 3000+ items?
<tjagoda> I feel ColonelPanic's pain
<jrwren> the non ubuntu folks will cry imba
<jrwren> snap-l: skim it all, read was looks good :)
<snap-l> Why not do that more regularly?
<snap-l> instead of 6mos ago?
<tjagoda> I dont care
<tjagoda> If they cry I get publicity
<tjagoda> =P
<brousch> snap-l should qualify as goh. he has 2 successful podcasts
<snap-l> I have the draw of a demagnetized refrigerator magnet
<snap-l> Though it would be great for the "who?" factor
<ColonelPanic001> brousch: ++
<ColonelPanic001> tjagoda: you have to try and get Wil Wheaton. He doesn't have to come, we just have to keep the tradition
<ColonelPanic001> In fact, somehow, it might be bad if he did come.
<ColonelPanic001> "I'm sorry sir, you weren't supposed to actually make it here. You'll have to leave. We have years of tradition to protect"
<tjagoda> uhoh
<tjagoda> IIS just started refusing all connections
 * tjagoda goes periscope down
<ColonelPanic001> I don't see the down side.
<wolfger> jrwren: anything older than 30 days is marked read in G-Reader, and I don't know any way to change or disable that.
<wolfger> But you can still view the older stuff
<wolfger> it's just less convenient
<wolfger> so your RSS pron collection is not lost :-)
<wolfger> snap-l: I struggle to stay below 1000+ unread
<snap-l> I get rid of things like Boing Boing and Lifehacker
<jjesse> and planet.ubuntu.com :0
<snap-l> they're just too much to read, and I'll find out about the cool shit somehow
<snap-l> I'm still subscribed to the planets, but if they explode, I'll just mark them as read.
<wolfger> when I get 1000+ I go to the big feeds like BoingBoing, Slashdot, and Ars Technica and just read the first page of headlines, read whatever catches my eye, then Mark All As Read
<wolfger> and that will usually bring me to the 800-999 range
<snap-l> yep
<wolfger> and I resubbed Planet Ubuntu a while back, so that's killing my count too
<wolfger> the important things are my webcomics. I have to read them all, and I have to make sure they don't go over 30 days.
<wolfger> which I don't always succeed at
<rick_h__> lol, rss reading is a fine art
<ColonelPanic001> you all read far too much rss
<rick_h__> it's how I know what the next wave of crap I'm supposed to learn is :)
<snap-l> It's how I know what the next wave of crap rick_h__ will be going gaga over is.
<rick_h__> crap, I was at the coffeeshop and couldn't connect to work
<rick_h__> so thought they had wifi issues, go home and find out it must be work issues
<rick_h__> gagaggagagagagagagagagaga
<ColonelPanic001> http://detnews.com/article/20110406/ENT09/104060338/1402/ENT09/Insane-Clown-Posse-wrestling-show-on-Pay-Per-View-tonight
<ColonelPanic001> oh no.
<wolfger> rick_h__ is a Gaga fan? I'd never have thought it. :-)
<ColonelPanic001> I live less then a mile, probably, frmo Modern Exchange
<ColonelPanic001> maybe a mile
<wolfger> ColonelPanic001: evacuate while you can
<ColonelPanic001> it must be nuked from orbit
<snap-l> Creating a new ubuntu key on a 4GB USB stick
<snap-l> have to say, this is pretty straightforward now. :)
<brousch> key?
<snap-l> usb stick
<snap-l> sorry
<snap-l> creating a new portable system
<snap-l> my netbook is a little unusable at the moment
<snap-l> I think the latest upgrades made things unstable
<snap-l> Keep having gnome-settings-daemon lock up
<snap-l> and once I kill it, all hell breaks loose
<snap-l> I should set up a fund for getting a new laptop. ;)
<Blazeix_> are you using the usb-creator-gtk program? That's pretty slick
<snap-l> Not the new one. I'm using the old one in 10.04
<snap-l> Actually, it's the same thing. ;)
<snap-l> YEah, I really like it
<rick_h__> yay, time to open a 1.3gb file in vim
<snap-l> I'm sure it'll be flawless.
<rick_h__> heh, well there went one cpu core for a while
<Blazeix_> you should use a proper editor. Like excel.
<snap-l> What happened to mp3 support out of the box on the live CD?
<snap-l> tried playing some mp3 files, and it didn't work.
<snap-l> (over a DAAP share, mind you, but still...)
<snap-l> ANd neither of the Google Chrome / GOogle Chromium launchers appear to work properly.
<rick_h__> it hates you
<rick_h__> you made it angry by 'user testing' against it
<snap-l> Apparently
<snap-l> I'd expect chrome to not work 100%, but Chromium? I thought there might be a little more love. ;)
<Blazeix_> if username == "snap-l": False, True = True, False
<brousch> snap-l: chrome was really slow for me in unity
<rick_h__> vim.tiny replace up to 16min now
<brousch> like 2 minutes to start slow
<rick_h__> guess I do need a faster machine
<snap-l> Blazeix_: More than likely
<snap-l> brousch: I think it's the memory
<brousch> but it ran chrome fine before
<brousch> and 2GB should be enough for anyone
<snap-l> Nice, and Banshee doesn't play any music from the U1 music store. :
<snap-l> spoke too soon
<snap-l> Needed a restart of Banshee to make it work
<snap-l> problem is it doesn't support flac out of the box.
<snap-l> wtf is wrong with DAAP and flac?
<snap-l> Rhythmbox handles it fine. I think it's a MIME Mismatch
<rick_h__>  4370 77.1 78.9 6350900 6307836 pts/3 R+   11:00  39:21 vim.tiny
<rick_h__> :)
<jrwren> why is only powerpc available ehre? http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/
<wolfger> I love it. Full Circle Magazine has an article on ebook reader software for Linux, and at the end it says "Next month: How to obtain ebooks legitimately for your ebook reader."
<rick_h__> jrwren: the other builds failed?
<wolfger> So we've all got a whole month to pirate ebooks for our new toys before we get told how to jump through hoops to do it the legal way. :-)
<jrwren> well that stinks :)
<snap-l> wolfger: Nope, we're all reading O'Reilly books and Baen
<snap-l> Military sci-fi and the tools to make it happen
<snap-l> what could be more fun than that?
<wolfger> well... nothing ebook related, that's for sure
<wolfger> Charlie Sheen trademark blitz: 'Besides "Duh, Winning," Sheen has also registered such gems as "Vatican Assassin,â âTiger Blood,â âRock Star From Mars,â and âIâm Not Bi-Polar, Iâm Bi-Winning,â [and 17 others] reports Entertainment Weekly.'
<snap-l> When your schtick is bein Charlie Sheen, I guess that's just good thinking
<wolfger> yeah, I really can't argue with it
<wolfger> Though I think maybe I should have patented the business model
<snap-l> too much prior art
<wolfger> since when does the patent office actually care about that?
<snap-l> http://www.meijer.com/s/big-steals/_/N-5io?CAWELAID=677385714&cmpid=dswed
<snap-l> Check out the price on this chair initially.
<snap-l> Y'know, I wish more people would use Lulu instead of scribd for their PDF files
<snap-l> At least on lulu, free / download immediately means just that
<wolfger> I should quit this job and make tacky furniture to sell at Meijer instead...
<snap-l> No kidding
<snap-l> Apparently it's a killing
<wolfger> MS Outlook is absolute rubbish. Why can't we just use Gmail for our corporate mail?
<jrwren> some corporations do use google apps for domains.
<jrwren> that sucks too.
<jrwren> google seems to give lower priority to those pay for clients than they do gmail, and the sharing model sucks, and the limitations suck.
<jrwren> if your exchange server supports imap you can point gmail to it and use gmail instead of outlook
<wolfger> You can use Gmail to retreive e-mail from another account?
<wolfger> intriguing
<jrwren> yes
<jrwren> click settings.
<jrwren> accounts and imports.
<jrwren> oh, looks like it is pop3 only.
<jrwren> but still.. many exchange servers are pop3 servers.
 * greg-g waves from Wikimedia's offices
<rick_h__> greg-g: woot!
<rick_h__> we'll be having a drink in your honor/hope at CHC tonight
<jrwren> hi greg-g
<rick_h__> tell them you've got lots of experience as the bookie relations manager
<jrwren> where are their offices?
<greg-g> rick_h__: hah!
<greg-g> jrwren: downtown SF, New Montgomery and Mission, kinda
<brousch> go greg-g!
<brousch> woohoo! i can tile like rick_h__ without the ugly window manager! http://onethingwell.org/post/4393060064/azulejo
<wolfger> Bah! There's no Spiral of Doom there.
<wolfger> :-)
<jrwren> rick_h__: be glad your mysql isn't written like this: http://paste2.org/p/1348105
<jrwren> and then called with a paramter based API and those out params.
<rick_h__> really? whole SP just to md5 hash a password?
<rick_h__> oh, they also check email exists, ugh
<brousch> jrwren: have you used monodroid?
<brousch> Oh come on. No Linux version? "Mono for Android can be used from either Visual Studio Professional 2010 for Windows users, or using MonoDevelop on the Mac and Windows"
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> http://i.imgur.com/VgWvr.png
<ColonelPanic001> snap-l: ++
<ColonelPanic001> personally I was hoping for the world war result
<ColonelPanic001> it could be called "The Gay War"
<brousch> The Blueballs and the Gay
<ColonelPanic001> hah
<jrwren> brousch: i used an early beta.
<jrwren> brousch: droid dev SUCKS because the google tools suck. monodroid only makes it a little bit better.
<jrwren> no linux version because google doesn't make a linux version of the droid dev tools.
<brousch> android sdk?
<brousch> it is on linux
<jrwren> oh?
<jrwren> well hell if i know :)
<_stink__> greg-g: good luck!
<jrwren> linux devs don't pay for software.
<jrwren> are you going to pay $400 for it?
<brousch> sheat. no way
<jrwren> and 99.99% of linux devs are going to say that and talk smack about it and talk smack about mono because of that $400. :)
<snap-l> Depends on if it's something that I need that can't be replicated elsewhere.
<snap-l> $400 between me getting where I need to go quickly vs cobbling my own environment is a bit tempting
<snap-l> assuming that the environment doesn't impede my progress while getting me there.
<brousch> i would consider it if i thought i could recoup it selling my app
<brousch> but that's a big investment to make fart apps and hello world
<brousch> esp when there's o many free ones out there
<brousch> i am pro-mono, but this makes me want to mail then a flaming bag of turds
<tjagoda> Come be a Blackberry dev! ;D
<tjagoda> You only have to get a notary to prove your real
<tjagoda> =|
<brousch> can you dev on linux?
<jrwren> that attitude disgusts me.
<jrwren> someone wants to get paid for their hard work and you want to mail them a flaming bag of turds. you should be ashamed.
<snap-l> Right... spread the wealth and send jrwren a blaming bag of turds
<tjagoda> brousch: You can blackberry dev anywhere you can run netbeans
<brousch> wondrful
<tjagoda> and eclipse
<tjagoda> There are bb dev plugins for eclipse
<snap-l> tjagoda: Do you have to buy your own bag of bamboo splinters to put under your fingernails, or are they included in the tarball?
<tjagoda> You don't use bamboo
<tjagoda> You use the protective glass from thousands of defunct nokias
<brousch> jrwren: i just think its crappy for something mono-based to no work on linux
<jrwren> why?
<jrwren> why do you think it is crappY?
<rick_h__> come on, quit trolling jrwren
<tjagoda> He just said why it was crappyu
<jrwren> monotouch is the same way is is almost 2 yrs old.  monomac is the same.
<tjagoda> =p
<snap-l> I took a quick peek at BB development. I think unless you have LLC after your name, they don't take you  seriously.
<rick_h__> clear it blows chunks when you give something a home, watch it grow up, and then leave the house
<jrwren> Starcraft2 doesn't work on linux.
<tjagoda> snap-l: Wouldn't you need that to legally sell apps anyway?
<rick_h__> there we go, let's pull the completely unrelated comparison out of our ass, see we're in good form today
<jrwren> i agree with the sentiment that more things don't work on linux. i wont single anyone out
<brousch> the iphone stuff i can understand since you need a mac to dev for it anyways
<snap-l> tjagoda: Sell apps? What kind of corporate bullshit are you trying to pull in here. :)
<brousch> but android runs linux and mono comes from the linux world
<tjagoda> Teehee
<snap-l> Heck, I wish Stardock would port all of their stuff to Linux, since they used to be OS/2 friendly
<jrwren> it is a bummer there isn't more of a market for the linux version. i agree.
<tjagoda> Omg
<tjagoda> Stardock on linux
<tjagoda> I would abandon steam for all possible things
<rick_h__> yay! when gnome doesn't slow things down enough
<snap-l> I mean the games, not the curtains shit
<brousch> snap-l: my sister works at stardock. they laughed at me for requesting linux versions
<tjagoda> I hear they barely make money right now
<tjagoda> so just laugh back at them
<snap-l> I'll go to their offices with check in hand for Linux versions
<brousch> they said "linux? ha, we want to make money!"
<snap-l> I'm not afraid to pay for what I want
<tjagoda> snap-l is our pimp sugar daddy
<snap-l> Well, I think it's a circular argument
<brousch> jrwren: isn't one of the big selling points of mono that if you develop your progam right it will run on windows, osx, and linux?
<snap-l> "There's no money in Linux" "Linux Users won't pay for anything"
<snap-l> So let me give you money.
<snap-l> "There's no market"
<snap-l> So create a market
<snap-l> "There's no money in Linux" "Linux Users won't pay for anything"
<tjagoda> This reminds me of the $400 mono kit
<tjagoda> =P
<snap-l> Linux users are very good at making do
<snap-l> so if all you add is a toolchain, then don't expect Linux users to get excited
<snap-l> but if you really add value, Linux users will also pay money
<tjagoda> I buy fluendo
<snap-l> I bought Fluendo
<snap-l> and then found something that was incompatible, and went back to bad / ugly
<jrwren> brousch: no, that is not one of the big selling points of mono AFAIK :)
<snap-l> When grey-area free works better than commercial, it's a really hard sell
<snap-l> jrwren: enlighten us, please
<jrwren> you guys are laughing, but its true. more products have failed in the linux market than have succeeded.
<jrwren> snap-l: enlighten you about what?
<snap-l> numbers, case studies, or it didn't happen
<snap-l> The big selling points of mono
<tjagoda> http://www.informationweek.com/news/personal-tech/tablets/229401046
<brousch> i guess that was what made me try mono
<brousch> i have no idea why anyone would want to use it otherwise
<jrwren> selling point of mono is a beautiful language with C# on a great modern fast virtual machine in the mono runtime.
<brousch> why not use MS's .NET?
<jrwren> on widows, please do use MS .NET
<snap-l> jrwren: SO, what marketplace failures have you seen with Linux?
<jrwren> kylix i think it was called
<jrwren> was delphi for linux
<jrwren> complete with a vb like design surface
<jrwren> and I htink the end result ran on linux adn windows.
<snap-l> Considering Delphi wasn't a success under Windows, I don't see that as a problem intrinsic to Linux
<jrwren> delphi still exists and is sold and supported on windows.
<jrwren> depending on how you define success, it is a success.
<greg-g> interview portion went ok, now they (the 4 who interviewed me) are pow-wow'ing in the conference room before we go out to lunch
<snap-l> greg-g: Awesmome. :)
<snap-l> jrwren: OK, we'll give you that one.
<snap-l> jrwren: How about a success: The Humble Indie Bundle. :)
<snap-l> jrwren: Now, another failure, please?
<jrwren> are you seriously trying to tell me there is a market for linux software?
<jrwren> *non server.
<snap-l> jrwren: Yes, I am
<jrwren> and explicitly development tools.
<rick_h__> canonical seems to hope so, with app purches in the software center
<jrwren> meego fail.
<snap-l> jrwren: Oh, moving the goalposts are we?
<rick_h__> pydev, aptana, wingide, all cost $$
<snap-l> development marketplace is different
<jrwren> i'm not moving anything. the discussion is aobut monodroid.
<brousch> aptana is free d00d
<jrwren> yeah.
<rick_h__> brousch: didn't they have a pay version?
<brousch> as is pydev (now owned by Aptana)
<jrwren> IMO there is very little market
<rick_h__> ah ok, well zend studio for php, window ide, pycharm for python
<brousch> pydev used to have a free and paid versions, but they merged and are free
<rick_h__> there's lots of editors that are pay on linux
<rick_h__> in the dev space
<snap-l> jrwren: Yeah, you're right on that account
<snap-l> I think it gets back into the roll your own mentality of Linux users
<rick_h__> it's not about the market. It's all about the community of mono grew up in the linux world and now is not part of this future product.
<rick_h__> if you can't see that, try to hang out in communities more
<snap-l> The last development environment I bought was Borland C++ and Delphi, and both of those were student versions
<rick_h__> geeze
<snap-l> rick_h__: Doesn't surprise me, though
<rick_h__> doesn't make it any less 'rude'ish
<snap-l> No, it is prickish
<rick_h__> you can justify until the cows come home, brousch's reaction is still legit
<rick_h__> and to hammer it with all these "you going to fork $400 over" is just trolling
<snap-l> frankly, I think developer tools are too damn expensive anyway (now THERE's troll-bait)
<snap-l> I looked through those Programmer Paradise catalogs thinking "you've got to be fucking kidding me"
<snap-l> $1195 PER SEAT is just gouging
<greg-g> whew
<rick_h__> greg-g: still alive?
<greg-g> yeah, they're still talking
<jrwren> how is that different than a pay-for QT product?
<snap-l> http://www.programmers.com/PPI_US/Product.aspx?sku=cgi%2032401a01
<jrwren> or any pay-for product that uses glib or gtk or other open source?
<snap-l> I get a little perturbed when I see a game that uses Python not available for Linux
<jrwren> i totally adn completely don't understand how a reaction of " mail them a flaming
<_stink__> greg-g: reminds me of after my dissertation defense, when i got kicked out and the committee stayed in there for like 25 minutes
<snap-l> I see that as being lazy.
<jrwren>  bag of turds." is ever "legit"
<_stink__> i think they were just telling raunchy jokes
<greg-g> haha, yeah, I hear laughing
<_stink__> awesome :P
<rick_h__> lol
<snap-l> And if something uses Mono, I'd like to have a Linux version
<snap-l> even if it's $400
<snap-l> I expect the same of Java
<jrwren> I'd like to have a little red corvette
<snap-l> Write once, run anywhere should be just that
<jrwren> Mono has NEVER been write once run anywhere.
<snap-l> (within reason, mind you)
<snap-l> jrwren: Then that's Mono's problem.
<jrwren> java used to say that and it was always write once, debug everywhere
<jrwren> or... its not a problem.
<brousch> then i was misinformed
<snap-l> me too. I guess there is no such thing as a silver bullet
<snap-l> back to not caring about mono
<brousch> use mono and gtk# and you can run your app anywhere
<jrwren> brousch: go try that for a real world app :)
<brousch> where anywhere is windows, osx, and linux, of course
<jrwren> and solaris and aix and all the places mono runs?
<brousch> i wrote 2 very small apps that way
<jrwren> and playstation 3 and wii? because mono runs there.
<brousch> then found python
<snap-l> Y'know, if Linux users made something amazing that wouldn't run on Windows, we'd be called elitist pricks
<jrwren> bullshit.
<snap-l> but if Windows users make something amazing, and Linux users don't get any, it's called marketplace. ;)
<jrwren> there is tons of sweet stuff that is or wsa linux only - its just that people port the sweet stuff to windows quickly
<snap-l> It's because we like to share
<jrwren> no, its called no one cares. apparently less interest or ability to move it to linux.
<snap-l> yeah, marketplace.
<snap-l> Whatever. ;)
<jrwren> gnome-do is a great example... i've got nothing that great on windows... especially 4 yrs ago
<jrwren> f-spot was better than anything on windows for years IMO.
<snap-l> https://launchpad.net/~do-windows
<jrwren> there is a windows port??? sweet!
<snap-l> was, in 2008
<jrwren> there wasn't 4 yrs ago.
<jrwren> i haven't looked at gnome-do in about 4 yrs.
<snap-l> https://launchpad.net/windo
<snap-l> migueldeicaza: @brousch Ironically, it is mostly developed on Linux.   Just the test/QA/support matrix for various Linux flavors makes it too expensive |03:20
<snap-l> I hope they rectify that.
<brousch> nice
<brousch> at least now i don't have to speculate
<snap-l> I think the pricetag is just because Windows users are gullible enough to pay for development environments. ;)
<snap-l> (needle needle)
<brousch> so it's really a statement about how linux fragmentation prevents good software from coming to linux
<snap-l> possibly
<snap-l> could also be a statement that Miguel & co. don't want to take shit from people complaining that they don't support the distribution they just release three minutes ago from their basement
<brousch> bah, put out a .deb for ubuntu and debian, and an rpm for opensuse and fedora and call it a day
<jrwren> the rest of the linux community, which is unfortunately extremely vocal would give them shit to no end.
<brousch> none of them use mono anyways
<brousch> it's too evil for them
<jrwren> true, but they would cry foul anyway.
<Blazeix_> I'm not sure I buy that. Plenty of applications provide debs and rpms, and then link to unofficial packages built for other distros
<binbrain> theres not a ton of mono apps is there?
<jrwren> the difference is that this is a commercial product with full support.
<brousch> ug, this monitor totally freaks out running ubuntu without the nvidia drivers
<brousch> hopefully i can install nvidia-96 manually
<snap-l> Folks going door to door
<slestak> jcastro: i have some info n a bug from the local jam
<slestak> wrt gpodder in Natty
<jcastro> oh rock
<jcastro> what is it?
<slestak> i worked with thomas perl in #gpodder and there is a known db migration bug in 2.11 (what installed from repo on natty) that is not present in 2.13 (current)
<slestak> when I opened the database in sqlite manager, all my data was there in _save tables.  I just had to do some dropping and renaming and all is well
<slestak> so I would recommend bump gpodder to 2.13 for Natty
<jcastro> ok awesome
<jcastro> is there a bug report for that?
<slestak> sry, i dont have any bug numbers
<slestak> there may be, i am covered over at work so I dont have that
<jcastro> ok
<jcastro> I'll sort it
<jcastro> thanks!
<jcastro> what's your launchpad id?
<slestak> thp in #gpodder might have it handy
<jcastro> I'll sub you to the bug so you can follow along
<slestak> slestak989@gmail.com
<slestak> it may be just the slestak989 part
<slestak> i dont use lp too much (slowwww)
<jcastro> k
<slestak> the beta I installed has been solid for me.
<slestak> i know you got a lot of negative feedback on the hidden menu
<jcastro> heh
<jcastro> it's all good
<jcastro> I don't take it personally
<slestak> I want to give a positive note to it, it keeps the interface clean
<jcastro> even though rick_h__ and snap-l do
 * jcastro runs
 * snap-l gets the harpoons
<snap-l>  /scorpion jcastro "GET OVER HERE"
<slestak> as apps get ported to be unity compliant, we will know that there is a menu there.
<slestak> (sp)
<snap-l> And after upgrading gwibber to 3.0, I have fail.
<snap-l> and gwibber is completely fucked.
<snap-l> greg-g: Remember when you mentioned that gwibber didn't ship with certain services?
<snap-l> You can install them separately.
<snap-l> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/280/
<greg-g> snap-l: huh, lame, they should at least be just one extra package for "all other services supported by gwibber"
<greg-g> btw, hello from SFO
<snap-l> Howdy from DTX
<snap-l> Back on a plane?
<greg-g> not yet, boards in like 30 minutes
<jcastro> greg-g: in the gui it's just a set of checkboxes
<greg-g> oh
<greg-g> good
<snap-l> Once again leaving the CLI users behind
<snap-l> Canonical doesn't care about black-screened people.
<jcastro> well, you wanted a list of packages
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> brousch: I love your The Social Network vs Ghostbusters retweet
<brousch> ok, how do i boot natty without X? to install the nvidia drivers i need to stop X and do it at the console, but i can't figure out how to do that
<Blazeix_> can you boot into single user mode? Append 'single' to the end of the 'kernel' line in grub.
<brousch> i'll try that
<greg-g> yeah, grub is probably your best bet
<brousch> in the old days it was hard to keep X up, now i can't get it to go down
<Blazeix_> I think alt-sysrq-k will kill X once it's running, so you could try that too.
<brousch> heh, the sysrq killed x, but it came right back
<brousch> ah, got it
<brousch> hold shift during boot to get grub menu, select recovery kernel, in recovery menu drop to root shell
<brousch> ug
<brousch> damnit, the nvidia installer says i should be in runlevel 3
<brousch> ok, init 3 at the root prompt put me in runlevel 3
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-04-07
<snap-l>   Jay R. Wren (28 minutes ago from MetroTwit)
<snap-l> I've bitched about google reader and loved bloglines, but the new bloglines is shit compared to the one from 5 yrs ago.
<DBO> gentlemen
<DBO> today I have important news
<DBO> ref counting, is hard
<DBO> that is all
<DBO> oh also I have decided to kill myself should I ever be made to touch mutter code again
<snap-l> Where should we make funeral donations to?
<DBO> my mom
<DBO> she'll be devastated
<DBO> (I hope the sober reality of that answer confirms just how much I hate mutter)
<DBO> I swear I would rather screw a bucket of glass
<snap-l> Hello mutter... hello clutter
<snap-l> Here I am, coding nutter
<snap-l> Code is very draining
<snap-l> and I think I'd rather sit on IRC complainin'
<DBO> yep!
<snap-l> Evening
<_stink__> yes
<rick_h__> geeze, from the "I'm going to pretend I never saw this" mailbox: http://yro.slashdot.org/story/11/04/07/0212222/France-Outlaws-Hashed-Passwords
<snap-l> rick_h__: Wow, that's cosmically stupid
<snap-l> The password is useless outside of the site
<snap-l> rick_h__: The summary is wrong
<rick_h__> yea?
<rick_h__> snap-l: so it right, the whole 'can't hash passwords' is wrong
<rick_h__> but it still does say you need to supply passwords
<rick_h__> and you'd think it'd at least need to be a reverseable hash
<tjagoda> Symantec Endpoint Protection is so useless
<rick_h__> sorry, stopped reading at that first word
<tjagoda> AV software that eats a shit ton of resources
<tjagoda> yet somehow still lets viruses through
<tjagoda> ...
<tjagoda> !!
<rick_h__> yay!
<tjagoda> I also pay money for it
<tjagoda> thousands of dollars
<tjagoda> ...
<tjagoda> !!!
<tjagoda> brousch: What do you guys run?
<tjagoda> For AV software that is
<rick_h__> well of course you'd need to license the logo so it appeared safe
<snap-l> I really really hate systems that specify password length
<rick_h__> snap-l: how long did it require?
<rick_h__> I mean, I've never met one that was more than 8
<snap-l> System that I'm logging into says it needs to be 6-8
<tjagoda> What about systems that specify capital letters, numbers, and a specific number of special characters all at the same time? =p
<rick_h__> oh, has a max
<rick_h__> yea, that sucks
<snap-l> rick_h__: Yeah, that's really dumb
<rick_h__> it's more the ones that don't allow special characters tjagoda
<jjesse> i've used 12 as a min requirement before
<jjesse> makes it a pain
<snap-l> means they're doing something to keep the password
<rick_h__> heh, time to go passphrase vs password
<tjagoda> Rick_h's password is "c0mandl!ne2"
<tjagoda> =P
<rick_h__> snap-l: come on, just trying to save some db space
<rick_h__> it's expensive you know, those extra bits/bytes
<snap-l> rick_h__: It should be hashed
<rick_h__> right, and encrypt only stores 8 chars anyway
<snap-l> worst case, it shouldn't allow certain special characters because they might foobar the entry form, but that's it
<tjagoda> I think we should intentionally build a system which combines all of our user frustrations
<tjagoda> password restrictoins
<tjagoda> annoying confirmation windows
<tjagoda> poor window focus management
<tjagoda> incorrect tab ordering
<tjagoda> scary colors =P
<rick_h__> and then host pron behind it so they're willing to do it all
<snap-l> and apparently it has a meaning for special character where special character isn't what I think special character means.
<rick_h__> 3 is very special
<rick_h__> it's my favorite number!
<snap-l> man, this system is just asking to be hacked
<rick_h__> most are :/
<rick_h__> greg-g: ping
<greg-g> rick_h__: pong
<greg-g> so, I haven't had time to write out responses yet, last two days were a bit crazy
<greg-g> I'll do a bit this afternoon
<rick_h__> greg-g: no prob at all, more for you than anything to get the gears going and all
 * greg-g nods
<snap-l> I love it when telemarketers call, and get essentially pissed off when you interrupt them to tell them that you don't qualify for their service.
<snap-l> Bank of America: Homeowner warranty. Sorry, I'm not a homeowner.
<_stink__> i just make animal noises into the phone.
<rick_h__> act like a 1yr old
<rick_h__> pick up and start hitting buttons
<snap-l> Well, I want to be respectful
<snap-l> and I don't want to waste her time, but dammit, be respectful of me trying to be respectful and curt.
<brousch> tjagoda: i run a firewall that blocks all executable downloads, has a url filter, restricted user accounts for all users, and MS security essentials on the desktops
<brousch> also i make them use firefox
<brousch> in the past i've used non-free avast and avg on the desktops
<brousch> tjagoda: jjesse can help you with symantec. he's certified!
<tjagoda> Think I might switch to ESET
<tjagoda> They make NOD32
<brousch> the firwall and restricted users i think are most effective
<brousch> stuff very rarely reaches the antivirus
<brousch> last infections were adobe reader vulnerabilities
<tjagoda> not even power users?
<tjagoda> You make them standard users?
<brousch> i have 3 power users, the draftsmen
<brousch> the rest are standard users (winxp)
<snap-l> Anyone got a non-AT&T phone that can send SMS to shortcodes?
<snap-l> (and would be willing to test something for me? :) )
<ColonelPanic001> I'm on t-mobile. I guess I can probably send to shortcodes. Never tried.
<snap-l> Sending PM
<ColonelPanic001> No snap-l, I will not send you those kinds of pictures. I'm at work.
<ColonelPanic001> Ask me later.
<snap-l> aw man
<ColonelPanic001> I'm impressed that you bothered to set up a shortcode and all just for that, though
<snap-l> Hey, that's how I roll
 * tjagoda loled
<tjagoda> im on sprint and can test, snap-l
<ColonelPanic001> "test"
<jrwren> anyone run into a pkg bug recently with qudrapassel and /usr/share/gnome-games/quadrapassel/pixmaps/quadrapassel.svg ?
<tjagoda> Test.
<tjagoda> Testees
<tjagoda> testes
<tjagoda> I see how ColonelPanic got to where he was going.
<snap-l> tjagoda: Thanks. PM sent
<snap-l> Though I suspect I already have my answer
<jrwren> stackoverflow could be the greatest thing to happen to software development since the internet.
<snap-l> jrwren: hear hear
<snap-l> I'm liking Unity
<snap-l> DBO: You done good.
<snap-l> I have to say, once I focused on what Unity got right, it's a much better experience.
<brousch> snap-l: agreed
<brousch> i just wish that damn nvidia-96 bug would get fixed so  could use it one my real computers
<snap-l> Yeah, you need a fast machine to make it really pop
<brousch> i need nvidia-96 on my work computer. the monitor is useless until the nvdiai drivers are installed
<brousch> i killed my tablet's install trying to install the drivers from nvidia's web site
<brousch> so i continue using osx all day and night
<rick_h__> love it: http://www.itnews.com.au/News/253712,epsilon-breach-used-four-month-old-attack.aspx
<rick_h__> just rely on stupid people, they're more widespread and powerful than any zero day exploit
<rick_h__> and this is fun: http://engineering.twitter.com/2011/04/twitter-search-is-now-3x-faster_1656.html
<rick_h__> "we made search 3x faster...by going java from ruby"
<brousch> snap-l: i actually started a draft blog post yesterday "what i like about unity"
<snap-l> Yeah, I think we need more of this
<rick_h__> ok you two unity hippies
<brousch> i have to ignore the fact that all of my screenshots come from my eeepc due to unity not working on the tablet or in virtual machines, and they have to be transferred by usb because the wifi driver is broken on eeepc :)
<tjagoda> how is the quality of 11.04?
<tjagoda> > or < 10.10?
<brousch> i like it better than 10.10
<snap-l> ~=
<snap-l> 10.10 was pretty solid, and 11.04 is getting there
<wolfger> what a day, what a day...
<wolfger> serves me right for complaining about yesterday being boring
<brousch> indeed. i've already been snippy to someone
<snap-l> How did we live before pip?
<snap-l> At least, how did we live before pip install z3c.soap. ;)
<jrwren> anyone using tbird 3.1.9 ?
<snap-l> jrwren: Nope. Using Evolution
<jrwren> easy_install z3c.soap? :)
<snap-l> considering there's about a metric fuckton of dependencies
<snap-l> some of which need compilation from gcc. ;)
<jrwren> i thought easy_intall handled that?
<snap-l> also, virtualenvs are awesome
<snap-l> They might have
<snap-l> I'm just having developer glow
<jrwren> i had that when someone answered my SO question :)
<snap-l> I love planning meetings
<snap-l> They're so optimistic
<tjagoda> I wonder if ESET will be cheaper than Symantec
<tjagoda> Hah
<tjagoda> Tomorrow I will wonder if the sky is blue as well
<binbrain> snap-l: why z3c.soap?
<binbrain> ZSI layer is old old old
<snap-l> Because I wanted to test something with attachments
<snap-l> and suds doesn't support attachments
<snap-l> if you have a better vector of attack, I'm all ears. ;)
<binbrain> z3c.soap is SOAP server, not client like suds right?
<snap-l> It's looking that way
<binbrain> yeah
<binbrain> suds is it
<jrwren> eset? symanetc? why not run security essentials?
<snap-l> I'm feeling around in the dark, honestly
<binbrain> the other you want to take a look into is soaplib
<snap-l> I'm also looking into SOAPpy
<binbrain> SOAPpy is old
<snap-l> Yeah, I'm noticing that as well. ;)
<binbrain> soaplib and suds are the 2 most well maintained
<binbrain> soaplib is mostly server side, but does provide client, but not as good as suds
<snap-l> As long as one of them handles attachments, I'm golden
<snap-l> I'm not looking for pretty, just functional
<snap-l> suds handles the other 99%. ;)
<binbrain> can't use restful for this I'm assuming :)
<snap-l> not until the next release. :)
<wolfger> Wow... When I wasn't using Identica, I talked trash about Identica being dead...
<wolfger> Now I'm using it again, and I see that it really is.
<wolfger> I think there's like a grand total of 5 people using it
<snap-l> I'm not posting as much today. :)
<binbrain> snap-l: chirp chirp http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2774805/swa-soap-with-attachments-in-python
<binbrain> :)
<snap-l> also a lot of folks have moved on
<wolfger> sad
<snap-l> binbrain: There's another question with the same thing, and the pointers to ZSI
<binbrain> snap-l: but this might help https://fedorahosted.org/suds/ticket/350
<snap-l> wolfger: There are people usingit, though
<wolfger> I think the "microblogging" fad has jumped the shark
<snap-l> binbrain: Looked into that, and can't make head nor tail about how to get it integrated.
<snap-l> wolfger: Sort of, though a lot of folks have moved to facebook
<binbrain> let me take a look
<wolfger> Yes,
<wolfger> FB is where it's at
<snap-l> And it's where I'm decidedly not going to be.
<rick_h__> crap, I feel so left out. Finished a custom project for another dept. Went live and never heard anything about it ever again
<wolfger> How's that Diaspora working for you?
<rick_h__> so today run into her and ask how that's going "Oh, they love it. They sent the VP a glowing email. He came by and congratulated the whole team"
<rick_h__> ummm, I never heard anything and I wrote the whole damn project
<snap-l> wolfger: I don't log into Diaspora
<wolfger> rick_h__: ouch
<rick_h__> boooooooo
<brousch> rick_h__: could this be due to you working from home?
<snap-l> rick_h__: Heh, that's like the IT crowd episode
<rick_h__> wolfger: yea, wtf
<smoser> DBO, around ?
<DBO> yesh
<rick_h__> brousch: heh, maybe I guess. but I'm on the other side of the building
<smoser> wonder if you can at least point me to someone
<rick_h__> so I don't think it woudl matter
<smoser> https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=114632
<smoser> i'mk trying to use dbus-send to send a notify-osd message
<smoser> but failing
<smoser> http://paste.ubuntu.com/590830/
<rick_h__> http://i.imgur.com/IXwMP.png awesome
<binbrain> snap-l: that looks patch seems like it should work, do you know how suds works?
<snap-l> A little bit, but I'm not sure how the attachments are supposed to work
<brousch> rick_h__: i have used h&r block online for years simply because it has worked with FF in linux when nothing else would
<snap-l> binbrain: If you have some hints, I'm all ears.
<rick_h__> snap-l: looks like you just drop that in, pass it the soap method, a StringIO or open file handle, and run
<binbrain> with_soap_attachment(client.service.yourremoveattachmentmethod, (MIME encoded data,   MIME encoded type, Content-id))
<rick_h__> args and kwargs are sent to the suds call
<snap-l> Hmmm, let me try that
<smoser> DBO, above was to you.
 * DBO reads
<binbrain> so client is the connect to the server
<snap-l> right, I was doing it wrong.
<DBO> smoser, you cant with notify send
<binbrain> try w/o MIME args first
<DBO> its a flag you have to set (as far as I understand) when sending notifications
<smoser> i can.
<DBO> and notify-send doesn't do it
<snap-l> I need to re-download it because I did a little patching. ;)
<smoser> i want dbus-send. :)
<smoser> DBO, i think i've found at least enough to get by this issue.
<DBO> oh yeah, dbus-send works good :)
<DBO> smoser, if you poke tedg in #ayatana he can answer better than me
<DBO> I rarely deal with notifications
<DBO> make that never...
<smoser> fair enough
<smoser> thanks
<wolfger> smoser: according to the sample on the man page http://linux.die.net/man/1/dbus-send there should not be a closing quote after your --dest?
<wolfger> although that really doesn't sound right
<smoser> no, the error i'm getting is right
<smoser> its saying it doesn't have a method with the signature i sent
<snap-l> binbrain: Yeah, I think I was really doing this wrong
<binbrain> pastebin your code and the error
<snap-l> binbrain: Still working on it, but understanding it better. :)
<binbrain> and check if your server is at least getting connections
<snap-l> embarrasingly wrong. ;)
 * snap-l innocently whistles
<binbrain> snap-l: it work then?
<snap-l> not yet, but much closer.
<snap-l> Let's just say that if I don't have it working in the next 10 minutes, I'll be shocked.
<rick_h__> lol
<rick_h__> caption.... "3wks later"
<snap-l> har har
<snap-l> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/d7TRPf4McsxZwvQOANbj/
<snap-l>   File "/home/craig/.virtualenvs/soaptest/lib/python2.6/site-packages/suds/soap_attachments.py", line 16, in with_soap_attachment
<snap-l>     soap_method = suds_method.method
<snap-l> AttributeError: 'Text' object has no attribute 'method'
<snap-l> I'm not sure how to pass along the suds_method.method
<binbrain> it just wants the method, not a called method
<binbrain> the text its parsing is probably the returned failed respnse from the server
<snap-l> How do I send both at the same time, though?
<binbrain> let me check
<rick_h__>  http://paste.mitechie.com/show/Q0ZEuGgphKQSEwfBu3cf/
<rick_h__> move the kwargs out and just pass the method, not the result of it
<rick_h__> passing in the callable vs calling it
<binbrain> snap-l: can you just run "print client" after making the connection and pastebin it
<snap-l> one sec.
<snap-l> btw: Thanks, rick_h__ and binbrain  for helping out. :)
<snap-l> much appreciated. :)
<rick_h__> python problems, addicting
<snap-l>   File "/home/craig/.virtualenvs/soaptest/lib/python2.6/site-packages/suds/soap_attachments.py", line 34, in with_soap_attachment
<snap-l>     boundary_id = 'uuid:%s' % uuid.uuid4()
<snap-l> NameError: global name 'uuid' is not defined
<binbrain> whoa, Fedora's installer is awful
<snap-l> (after trying rick_h__'s approach)
<binbrain> snap-l: print your client and pastebin
<snap-l> binbrain: one sec. ;)
<rick_h__> snap-l: need to import uuid
<binbrain> I think A) you need to bind the Type input to the method before you pass, or B) you need to pass your Type as an arg or kwarg
<snap-l> rick_h__: I think the problem is it sin't getting the right number of arguments
<rick_h__> http://docs.python.org/library/uuid.html
<rick_h__> no, global name uuid means you don't have the function imported
<snap-l> rick_h__: Right, and it's getting called from here:
<snap-l> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/283/
 * snap-l pastes the whole module: http://paste.mitechie.com/show/284/
<rick_h__> snap-l: right, so where is the "import uuid" line?
<binbrain> snap-l: http://paste.mitechie.com/show/QxX4aZ5hMH6F2m4OS0xq/
<snap-l> binbrain: client: http://paste.mitechie.com/show/286/
<snap-l> binbrain: Will try that
<rick_h__> bah, this looks wrong. soap_client = suds_method.clientclass(kwargs) should be *kwargs I would think
<smoser> so, some follow up on my question above to DBO
<snap-l> somehow attachment_data isn't getting passed right
<snap-l> I think that's the big problem
<DBO> yesh?
<smoser> https://gist.github.com/908158
<snap-l> changed it to a list, and it's still running down the len=1 path
<smoser> short answer 'dbus-send' can't send a variant in a dictionary
<binbrain> snap-l: I messed up the kwargs passing, http://paste.mitechie.com/show/VHK0YjC72LirJk126S8Y/
<smoser> and the page i referred to has a different notify-osd than ours.
<binbrain> just tac them on to the end
<smoser> but that gist has a script that does it.
<snap-l> binbrain: Yeah, that's what rick_h__ posted. :)
<rick_h__> snap-l: you can tyr to change it to a list []
<rick_h__> but a tuple reports the len() just like a list() so don't get that
<rick_h__> snap-l: did you add the import?
<snap-l> checking what's being passed to attachment_data
<snap-l> That's the key
<rick_h__> because the file still gets compiled into a pyc before run and if that throws the exception you're chasing the wrong error
<snap-l> yeah, somehow it's passing [<bound method MIMEImage.as_string of <email.mime.image.MIMEImage instance at 0x2e844d0>>, '1', '<bound method MIMEImage.get_content_type of <email.mime.image.MIMEImage instance at 0x2e844d0>>']
<snap-l> oh, fucking idiot
<rick_h__> lol
<rick_h__> ()
<snap-l> ++
<rick_h__> how many python geeks does it take to diff methods from method calls
<rick_h__> so how's that 10min looking? :)
<snap-l> awesome
<snap-l> suds.transport.TransportError: Internal Server Error
<snap-l> Now we're cooking. :)
<snap-l> Thanks again, binbrain and rick_h__
<snap-l> Anyone know what HUD_ARM_SERVICE_URL should be set to?
<snap-l> (line 75)
<snap-l> https://fedorahosted.org/suds/attachment/ticket/350/soap_attachments.py (line 72)
<binbrain> hmm
<snap-l> I've set it to the ?wsdl url that I'm using, and am getting the Internal Server error
<binbrain> I don't think it wants the WSDL there
<binbrain> I think that's already known when you create your client
<binbrain> I'm not sure, but I can tell you that its a URL :)
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> let me try something a little smaller
<binbrain> um, that suds.transport.send method it that it calls at the bottom does 1 thing, raises a not implemented
<binbrain> dohhh
<binbrain> hopefully that's just because its trunk
<binbrain> I can't imagine the patch would only work in the developers imagination
<greg-g> rick_h__: / snap-l : what time do you think you'll be getting into A2?
<rick_h__> greg-g: aiming at 5pm
<greg-g> coolio, just checking
<wolfger> Who the what now? Something going on in A2 tonight?
<rick_h__> python user group meeting
<rick_h__> michipug
<snap-l> Just meeting up w/ greg-g as well
<rick_h__> we can't wait to hear the juicy details about his trip
<rick_h__> and how brousch is going to have to be the new group master/slave driver
<snap-l> I get shotgun
<greg-g> lol
<snap-l>  Hah, I think I figured out what "HUD ARM" means:
<snap-l> http://www.mail-archive.com/j-users@xerces.apache.org/msg02891.html
<rick_h__> hmmm, can I upload a 1.3gb file to S3 before I leave work today? that is the question...
<rick_h__> ugh crappy net speeds here in the office
<rick_h__> snap-l: curse you! I just read soap docs, ugh
 * rick_h__ goes to wash out his eyes
<wolfger> what, we're losing the guidance of greg-g???
<brousch> snap-l: you can drive if you want to. i like the group's center on the east side (more active members over there), and i'm working on like half a dozen groups and events already ;) although ubuntu-mi isn't really a big time sink
<wolfger> say April Fools\
<wolfger> :-p
<brousch> he said he would hang out in this channel if he moves on to better places
<brousch> so we can still annoy him all day with copyright questions
<greg-g> :) always
<greg-g> wolfger: I'm in the running for a position at the Wikimedia Foundation, nothing is anywhere near final yet, it is at best a 50/50 chance (probably less, honestly), but still. The possibility is out there.
<rick_h__> greg-g: what license shuold I use on my lost dog flyer? I mean, I guess people can reproduce, but what if the story is turned into a movie and I'm left out of all the profits?
<greg-g> haha
<brousch> damn, good question
<rick_h__> I only waste greg-g's time with my best ones
<brousch> no i'll be paranoid every time i post a memo
<greg-g> which i could actually talk about for probably 5-10 minutes addressing all of the real and non-real implications
<jrwren> my favorite is justifying my use of CC0 for code :)
<wolfger> rick_h__: Actually, I saw a very useful chart on DeviantArt last night that would answer that question for you.
<rick_h__> oooh
<greg-g> jrwren: I like it
<greg-g> jrwren: and actually, there will be a blog post from CC0 about that shortly
<jrwren> greg-g: most people don't get it,a nd I have to explain it.
<rick_h__> heh, +1 I saw that somewhere and went wtf?
<jrwren> remember "PUBLIC DOMAIN" software from the C64, Amiga era?
<greg-g> hehe, yeah, it made the rounds, at first I was pissed it was so bad, then i got the jokes :)
<rick_h__> no
<jrwren> jokes?
<Blazeix_> a friend sent me this a while back, is this the same chart from deviantart? http://cl.ly/5nAo
<rick_h__> hah, nice
<greg-g> yeah, that one Blazeix_
<wolfger> Blazeix_:  Nope, different
<greg-g> oh
<greg-g> which one are you guys talking about?
<wolfger> The one I saw was just what type of CC to use
<greg-g> from DoctorMO?
<wolfger> yes
 * greg-g nods
<wolfger> thank you. I was trying to remember his name and failing
<jrwren> omg, this flowchart is great.
<jrwren> LOL @ peanut butter hula hoops
<rick_h__> this is awesome, 20min into just uploading the data file for a map reduce job that runs 2min locally
<rick_h__> well, 2:48 actually I guess
<snap-l> Thank you contacting Kobo Customer Care. We have tried loading the pdf supplied into an eReader, and we are seeing the same results. We're not entirely certain what may be causing the eReader to render the pdf incorrectly. Can you please try sideloading the pdf using iTunes and see if this is any better.
<snap-l> *ca-click* *BOOOOM*
<rick_h__> lol
<snap-l> Also, they claim that PDFs aren't a standard, and that EPubs are
<snap-l> which is horseshit
<snap-l> sorry, that PDFs don't follow a standard, and EPUBs do
<snap-l> EPUBS may be more stable because Adobe doesn't keep changing them to include Javascript and Flash, but PDFs follow standards.
<brousch> quick vim question. how do i delete a whole line?
<snap-l> dd
<brousch> awesome
<snap-l> Did someone kill shoutcast?
<snap-l> seems like every station that I added in Banshee is broken
<jcastro> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-panel/1:2.32.1-0ubuntu6.2
<jcastro> there
<jcastro> unaltered CLASSIC mode
<snap-l> jcastro: We're still rabble-rousing
<snap-l> after all, have you ever tried to blow out a flare?
<snap-l> And now I get to escalate things to see what's happening.
<brousch> i am considering buying this http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=19180 for $100
<brousch> there are supposedly a number of third party roms for it http://forum.archosfans.com/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=49646&hilit=a70hb
<snap-l> SDL 1.3 is now released under the zlib license.
<brousch> snap-l: this is just for you: sign in a borders' window during closing sale http://cl.ly/5nVl
<snap-l> Yeah, I saw that
<snap-l> Amazon is a restaurant next door to the Borders
<brousch> that is less funny
<krondor> Hmm, they're testing the door alarm system here right behind me.  Time to leave early?  I think so!
<windows_> is the MUG site going to be updated before the meetings?
<Blazeix_> waldo323 might know what's up with it
<waldo323> windows_, it was supposed to be
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-04-08
<jcastro> rick_h__: .... and i've gone intel 510
<jcastro> the vertex 3 doesn't look /that/ much faster + reliability.
<krond0r> Night
<rick_h__> hmmm, do I need the regexp book on the deal today?
<rick_h__> ugh, how did 1am become the new 4am
<rick_h__> too old
<brousch> 1am?
<wolfger> that's how
<brousch> i'm dead if i stay up past 11pm
<jrwren> no need for regexp book, master them yourself.
<jrwren> although an advanced pocket ref would be nice for stuff like zero width look ahead assertion rules that I can never remember
<snap-l> jrwren: THis is the Mastering REgular Expressions book from O'Reilly
<snap-l> I'm not sure how you can really master regexes without this book
<snap-l> http://twitter.com/OReillyMedia/status/56247625053241344
<jrwren> take a good comp theory course and understand regular languages.
<brousch> or read a book
<wolfger> books ftw
<wolfger> much cheaper than courses
<brousch> and easier than understanding
<jrwren> lol
<jrwren> now I want to read the book just to see if I get anything out of it and if it really truely covers mastery.
<wolfger> <shrug> I just have the pocket reference :-)
<wolfger> ...and I certainly don't claim mastery.
<snap-l> jrwren: You should write a recipe book
<snap-l> "How to bake a cake, by jrwren"
<snap-l> "First, start with a cake"
<snap-l> "Then, you're done"
<wolfger> Short book.
<brousch> pad it with a lot of pictures
<wolfger> and coupons for cakes
<_stink__> rick_h__: oh no, that early?
 * rick_h__ zombie today
<_stink__> yikes
<_stink__>  /dcc rick_h__ caffeine-stream
<rick_h__> but good day, hard drives are by the door, 3 install mediums for ubuntu server on hand
<rick_h__> and desktop is set back up and ready for testing bookie galore
<_stink__> o/
<brousch> bookie galore? is that the premium version?
<rick_h__> hah, yea
<rick_h__> no, just the EC2 instance isn't up for the task of jenkins with 3 builds for each push
<wolfger> LOL. Just got an e-mail from a friend of mine...
<wolfger> "Did a little poking around on Identica last night. Not only is the traffic very light there, as you noted, the people there are all mentally disturbed. The FOSS community needs teams of specialists to provide them with the kind of mental care that they need."
<_stink__> hah
<snap-l> wolfger: Any community of creative folks is one breakdown in need of a shrink
<rick_h__> hmmm, so my 10.04 server install installed gnome and booted to it?
<wolfger> So says one of those mentally disturbed Identica people... :-D
<rick_h__> I didn't see that coming
<_stink__> rick_h__: that's strange.  it's been since maybe 8.04 that i did a server install, but that didn't happen then.
<rick_h__> yea, I mean it was a nice text installer
<rick_h__> nvm, wrong disk ugh
<rick_h__> bah, msised it put it int he downloads folder vs home dir
<snap-l> rick_h__: I've never seen that before
<snap-l> rick_h__: Do you need a server USB key?
<rick_h__> snap-l: no, all good. I just did the second download on the wife's machine and assumed it went into home vs downloads
<wolfger> rick_h__ needs a caffeine drip
<rick_h__> but home already had an old alt-isntall download
<_stink__> hehe
<snap-l> I'll make one just in case. :)
<rick_h__> oh well, desktop install can be a desktop install
<rick_h__> bah, except it was 32bit install. Ok, a reinstall in my future
<snap-l> rick_h__: amd64?
<rick_h__> yea, all good man
<rick_h__> making new cds
<rick_h__> the usb should be good since I made them on my laptop
<snap-l> I'm making a 10.04 AMD64 server key if you need it. :)
<rick_h__> lol, thanks, but will have two usb and 2 cds so hopefully be good
<jrwren> snap-l: i hate recipe books.
<jrwren> snap-l: but I really don't know what you are talking about.
<jrwren> what is the name of that html/js toolkit that is open source and has closed source extensions owned and run by telerik?
<snap-l> jrwren: You say that the best way to learn regex is to first learn computer theory and languages.
<jrwren> i never said that.
<jrwren> "master them yourself" is waht I said.
<snap-l> 08:28 < jrwren> take a good comp theory course and understand regular languages.
<jrwren> to get to mastery.
<jrwren> its a great way to get from intermediate competency to mastery.
<snap-l> To become a zen master, first master zen
<jrwren> Dreyfus model of skill acquisition is fairly well known and understood.
<snap-l> Maybe we need more jrwrens in this world. ;)
<jrwren> please god no.
<wolfger> snap-l: well, that *IS* the path to zen mastery
<jrwren> what is?
<wolfger> mastering zen
<wolfger> [10:10] <snap-l> To become a zen master, first master zen
<snap-l> http://ubuntuone.com/p/lce/
<_stink__> hah
<snap-l> God, I wish Perl had virtualenv
<snap-l> cpan is such a miserable piece of shit
<wolfger> I hate that government is only going to selectively shut down
<wolfger> congressmen will still get paid
<wolfger> they won't issue passports, but they will keep the TSA running
<binbrain> glaring problems with pypi just the same
<snap-l> wolfger: Oh, you didn't realize that congress gets to be selective?
<wolfger> snap-l: just voicing my displeasure
<wolfger> they're doing it all wrong
<binbrain> haha, I just sent my passport in for renewal last week
<wolfger> congress and the TSA should be the first service to go. They do no good.
<binbrain> the only reason I don't care if the gov shuts down
<snap-l> now now now, t's only the public-facing pieces of the government that shut down
<snap-l> services for the people shut down, not the self-servicing services.
<wolfger> yes. Everything *useful* shuts down.
<ColonelPanic001> if the government shuts down, I presume this means laws are voided. Time to stock up on assault weapons.
<snap-l> silly wolfger, if congress shut down, would anyone care?
<ColonelPanic001> I'd care.
<ColonelPanic001> you have to care to celebrate
<binbrain> yeah, total anarchy, start hording
<wolfger> ColonelPanic001: you beat me to it
<ColonelPanic001> \o/
<ColonelPanic001> me ++
<snap-l> I'll get to read my books by the bonfires
<wolfger> indeed
<wolfger> IMO, federal govt can go cram itself into the BP oil well
<ColonelPanic001> solve two problems at once
<snap-l> Perhaps congress could take up music lessons so they can do a proper fiddling like Nero while the American experiment fails like Rome did.
<wolfger> snap-l++
<ColonelPanic001> on another note, an email just told me that tryouts for the cheerleading squad here are soon
 * ColonelPanic001 checks calendar
<wolfger> You have a cheerleading squad? No fair.
 * wolfger wants a cheerleading squad
<ColonelPanic001> work at a university. :)
<wolfger> ah, the benefits of academia :-)
<rick_h__> lol, awesome, taking these 200gb drives out of this server
<rick_h__> with a 160gb boot woot
<snap-l> rick_h__: You had a 160GB boot drive?
<rick_h__> yea
<rick_h__> and three 200gb disks in raid 5
<rick_h__> well by boot I mean /boot and /home
<rick_h__> just funny that my laptop ssd is as big as this server drive from the past
<snap-l> Ah, OK
<snap-l> I love reading old books on WSDL:
<snap-l> "Because of the relatively young age of WSDL as an accepted technology, the mod-
<snap-l> ules and tools available to develop Perl applications with it or based on it are still
<snap-l> somewhat scarce
<snap-l> I can tell you that from 2003-2011, only the age of WSDL has changed.
<snap-l> holy shit, there's a program for perl called stubmaker that generates the code for you
<binbrain> wonder how well supported it is
<snap-l> We'll find out. :)
<jrwren> unless you are in java or .net land, then there is an insane abundance of wsdl tools.
<jcastro> snap-l: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWac5UT80no&feature=related
<snap-l> jcastro: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chiVMrWMHko
<snap-l> I can think of few things that are more miserable than dealing with SOAP
<snap-l> SOAP/WSDL
<brousch> holy crap. i ordered a tablet from tigerdirect yesterday at 3:45PM and it was delivered today at 1:50PM using ups ground shipping
<snap-l> Nice!
<snap-l> Was that the Archos?
<brousch> yeah
<snap-l> AWesome. I'm looking forward to seeing it next time we meet up
<brousch> with the current crop of roms i can make it a video-playing tablet with android 1.5 or a more full-featured tablet without video using android 2.1
<brousch> there may even be a linux distro for it
<brousch> http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/
<snap-l> heh, very cool!
<Milyardo> has anyone attempted to get minecraft working on android yet? Its an application wirtten in java and seems like it's be a good game to have on a tablet
<Blazeix_> Not sure. It beats up my laptop with integrated graphics, though.
<Blazeix_> So I'm not sure how it would fair on a tablet. Probably require quite a bit of rework.
<snap-l> God, who the fuck legitimized using pretty quotes in code samples?
<Milyardo> No one?
<Milyardo> o.O
<Blazeix_> wordpress?
<snap-l> How does anyone get anything done in Java?
<snap-l> Trying to find a fucking jar file is just fucking impossible
<snap-l> and downloading eclipse is just fucking frustrating
<snap-l> Eclipse IDE for two pepole who give a flying fuck about flying fucking
<snap-l> http://ubuntuone.com/p/lft/ <- fuck me
<brousch> damn easy rom install
<brousch> copy image file to root, reboot
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-04-09
<brousch> rick_h__: do you listen to python411?
<rick_h_droid> no, tried a couple and didn't like it
<brousch> he is looking for guest podcasts
<brousch> maybe even someone to take it over
<rick_h_droid> ? interviews you mean?
<rick_h_droid> oh, more co-host thing
<brousch> guest host, co-host
<brousch> he is too busy
<brousch> http://www.awaretek.com/python/
<brousch> "Software is not magic" podcast, that stuff is in the first 10mins or so
<brousch> i have no idea why, but i think he has a lot of listeners. it might be a good way to spread the lococast word if nothing else
<rick_h_droid> cool, thanks. I'll check it out
<brousch> android 1.5 is too old. gonna try one of the 2.x roms
<_stink__> snap-l: haha, that download page is great.  did you ever decide on one?
<snap-l> _stink__: Yeah, I did, and it still didn't work for what I wanted it to do
<snap-l> apparently I'm not brain-damaged enough to use Eclipse
<snap-l> I want to know what Eclipse Classic is. That's got to be pretty much useless
<_stink__> haha
<_stink__> maybe it's for the Atari.
<tjagoda> Ahoy
<tjagoda> I have hopped onto 11.04
<tjagoda> and Unity has only crashed twice!
<nixternal> LETS GO HAWKS!
<tjagoda> \o/
<rick_h__> brousch: hmm, interesting. I'll have to see what I can come up with. Don't want to take it over, but wonder if he'd want to dual publish or something
<rick_h__> I wish I had some insight into how popular/not his user base is
<tjagoda> hmm
<tjagoda> Unity seems to crash a lot
<rick_h__> make sure to file then
<rick_h__> they couldn't get it to crash much at the jam
<tjagoda> I was wrong
<rick_h__> and they were looking for crashers
<tjagoda> compiz crashes
<tjagoda> Then freezes unity for a few seconds until it can recover
<rick_h__> ok, wow, this feels a bit different
<rick_h__> got my new keyboard in. yay
<rick_h__> very strange sounding
<jrwren> what kind?
<rick_h__> jrwren: http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=leopold,tenkeyless&pid=fc200rcab
<rick_h__> krondor: dood, your network hates you
<jrwren> rick_h__: that looks so much like the dell KB on my desk at work that I'd be afraid its the same thing.
<jrwren> oh, except the lack of 10key
<rick_h__> heh note quite
<jrwren> looks sweet.
<jrwren> does it have a numlock like a laptop KB though?
<rick_h__> http://elitekeyboards.com/support.php#1
<rick_h__> doesn't look like it
<jrwren> what does nkey rollover mean?
<rick_h__> This means that each key is scanned completely independently by the keyboard hardware, so that each keypress is correctly detected regardless of how many other keys are being pressed or held down at the time.
<rick_h__> copied/pastecx
<rick_h__> pasted
<rick_h__> basically means you can do more simultaneous keypresses without issues
<jrwren> rick_h__: yes, mech KB are awesome. I still have 2 focus 2001's that are PCAT style. I had been wiring them to ATX manually myself :(
<rick_h__> this keyboard has teh MX blue switches in there
<rick_h__> so my first try at the cherry MX switches
<rick_h__> wanted to compare against the model M spring buckle
<jrwren> focus 2001 is spring buckle style.
<jrwren> although I've used the switches kind
<rick_h__> and while I love the small size of the happy hacker, it moved the backspace and \ keys around
<rick_h__> which messed me up
<rick_h__> so this is small form factor, mechanical, without moving keys around
<jrwren> focus 2001 had that for a while.
<rick_h__> http://www.geekstuff4u.com/catalog/product/gallery/id/47/image/521/
<jrwren> err, no, focus 2001 never moved backspace, but \ was right of right shift
<rick_h__> see the delete below the \ and ~ and such
<jrwren> yes, that is terrible.
<jrwren> there is no excuse for that.
<rick_h__> I could get used to it, but every other keyboard doesn't do it
<rick_h__> and I use | and ~ a lot since I'm so terminal happy
<jrwren> dito.
<jrwren> err, ditto
<rick_h__> so yea, this new one is a nice middle hopefully
<jrwren> that lack of t may have been a membrane error :)
<rick_h__> little bit bigger, get F keys and such, but still smaller and mechanical
<rick_h__> heh
<jrwren> $99 is steep though.
<jrwren> i should rewire a 2001 for this desktop PC I'm using.
<rick_h__> yea, but I convinced myself it was better than trying the topre switches
<rick_h__> cheapest keyboard using those is $265
<jrwren> $99 is worth it for as much as any of us type.
<rick_h__> that's what I say. It's a real difference.
<jrwren> its just all of my monthly discressionary spending :)
<rick_h__> yea, well fortunately I can only use a couple of keyboards at a time
<rick_h__> so not often I get more than a couple a year
<jrwren> i made a huge mistake of buying cheap wireless MS shit.
<jrwren> then i was at the MS store a few months ago. all of thier KB are shit.
<rick_h__> yea, gone downhill
<jrwren> http://cgi.ebay.com/Used-Focus-FK-2001-Vintage-Mechanical-Keyboard-/150557678612
<jrwren> someone got a deal.
<rick_h__> you can't get a decent keyboard in a store any more
<rick_h__> I got their ms4000 or whatever
<rick_h__> loved the layout, but the keys were just sponge crap
<rick_h__> couldn't keep typos away for a single sentence
<jrwren> wireless comfort key 4000?  that is what I'm on right now. it is terrible.
<jrwren> and the mouse that came with it is the lowest res least acurate optical mouse I've ever used.
<rick_h__> I got the wired, I'm anti wireless with input devices
<rick_h__> I don't care how quick it 'wakes up' there's always lag/etc
<jrwren> yup
<rick_h__> but yea, I've got some model M replica spring ones, this cherry mx, and the happy hacker which is ok, but that delete key issue :/
<rick_h__> jrwren: if you need I've got some old MS naturals around
<rick_h__> not mechanical, but were a decent keyboard from them
<snap-l> Howdy
<snap-l> JoDee bought a new phone
<snap-l> HTC Thunderbolt w/ Verizon
<waldo323_> sweet!
<snap-l> Yeah, it's nice
<snap-l> She's wandering around the house with her nose in the phone. :)
<greg-g> jcastro: yo, I didn't get out of dinner until midnight, so I just went home :/
<snap-l> rick_h__: http://www.sherlockian.net/acd/copyright.html
<snap-l> rick_h__: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._P._Lovecraft#Copyright
<rick_h__> snap-l: heh, now your house can be iPhone vs Droid!
<snap-l> Yeah yeah
<snap-l> Though I have to say I like the Android
<greg-g> I see someone is doing show notes?
<snap-l> Um, yeah... :)
<greg-g> ;)
<rick_h__> snap-l: http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/05/app-gives-htc-thunderbolt-an-lte-on-off-switch/
<snap-l> heh, that's awesome. :)
<rick_h__> yea, the 4g phones drain battery when they're setup for it. So if you don't need the speed, better to save it
<jcastro> greg-g: heh no worries, we were so stuffed from chophouse that we got sleepy
<rick_h__> can anyone test: http://rick.bmark.us/recent curious if the dns is updated/site working ok
<rick_h__> should show two bookmarks for today
<rick_h__> the 9th
<snap-l> rick_h__: It's working
<rick_h_droid> cool, thanks
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-04-10
<rick_h__> woot, see a new file snap-l
<snap-l> rick_h_droid: Yep, made with the uploads. :)
<rick_h_> woo, back
<rick_h_> colo ftw
<snap-l> Wow, Tron Legacy sucked
<snap-l> just saw it on DVD
<snap-l> apparently the 3D adds a dimension of tolerable to it, because in 2D the story was stupid
<snap-l> Much like Matrix Reloaded.
<DBO> 76 line diff, added a desaturation filter and used it properly in unity
<DBO> you know what, Nux rocks
<snap-l> https://twitter.com/codinghorror/statuses/56916783864610816
<snap-l> Good morning, noble citizens.
<brousch> wordupsir
<rick_h_droid> party
<snap-l> JoDee is completely enamoured with her phone
<rick_h_droid> lol
<rick_h_droid> told you, cable modem...never go back
<snap-l> Just about
<brousch> what'd she get?
<snap-l> Thunderbolt
<brousch> 4g?
<brousch> i'm not having much luck with the archos. locks up on big downloads in every ROM
<brousch> with a faint odor of electric smoke
<snap-l> Yeah, it's a 4G LTE
<snap-l> brousch: Ruh roh
<brousch> refurb
<brousch> hm, return or exchange
<brousch> i'll give it another chance
<rick_h_droid> watching the Doctorow interview on the roku, good stuff
<brousch> he has 1 interview?
<snap-l> His latest interview on triangulation
<rick_h_droid> yea, twit on the roku is cool sometimes
<jrwren> snap-l: did you move to dnsimple?
<brousch> snap-l: did you see that severed fifth is looking for a new drummer?
<snap-l> I did
<snap-l> Unfortunately I'm not local. :)
<snap-l> jrwren: No, I moved to linode, and am using their API
<jrwren> ah, running your own dns then?
<snap-l> Yeah,
<snap-l> qq: anyone know how to get banshee 2.0 installed under Lucid?
<snap-l> I have the PPA installed, and it says that 2.0 is available, but no luck
<snap-l> still offers me 1.8.1
<greg-g> upgrade to maverick?
<snap-l> https://launchpad.net/~banshee-team/+archive/ppa?field.series_filter=lucid
<snap-l> greg-g: no. :)
<snap-l> ./sources.list.d/banshee-team-ppa-lucid.list:deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/banshee-team/ppa/ubuntu lucid main
<snap-l> ./sources.list.d/banshee-team-ppa-lucid.list:deb-src http://ppa.launchpad.net/banshee-team/ppa/ubuntu lucid main
<greg-g> yeah, no clue, weird, what does apt-cache policy give?
<greg-g> also, is there a way to delete posts from our group timeline? I am blocking some new !ubuntumi members, but their posts, I think, are still in our timeline
<snap-l> greg-g: Not without getting support involved.
<snap-l> I blocked a few yesterday.
 * greg-g nods
<greg-g> ok
<snap-l> ANything *ubuntu* is a spam-trap
<snap-l> Seriously, our blocked list is more than the number of legit members
<snap-l> And it seems that anything that is flagged and not explicitly reported as such is still free to roam
<snap-l> I really wish they'd implement something that would make it so either new members get moderated or anything that is sent to more than three groups needs approval
<snap-l> I think the reason that banshee 2.0 isn't available is because the build failed.
<snap-l> so, I guess that's a "good thing"
<greg-g> ah, good deal
<greg-g> (sorry, neighbors came up for a second)
 * greg-g goes for a bike ride
<brousch> too hot!
 * DBO made unity do edge-reveal
 * DBO dances
<snap-l> DBO: Nice!
<tjagoda> Ahoy
<rick_h_> party
<tjagoda> They just pushed out an update to fix one of my bugs
<tjagoda> woot
<tjagoda> with media mounts not properly ejecting/removing from unity after removal
<tjagoda> experienced it a lot with CD's
<rick_h_> cool, yea bugs getting squashed
<tjagoda> I hope they power onward
<tjagoda> I've had a lot of crashes in unity thus far
<tjagoda> one crash back to login screen even
<tjagoda> No idea what happened there
<rick_h_> widox: n0p_ you guys been following php land these days? is this php5-fpm the way to do things now?
<rick_h_> was going to go with fastcgi, but seeing people saying not to, but the ftp I have to get from dotdeb or something
<rick_h_> bah, it's in maverick
<n0p_> rick_h_: yeah, we are using nginx and php-fpm, ftw
<rick_h_> n0p_: ok, will check it out then. Only php I have running on the server is a single phpbb install so not sure I'll go through all the custom install stuff
<rick_h_> but good to know going forward
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-04-02
<brousch> are we meating yet?
<snap-l> Hey, everyone. We're goind to start the meeting.
<brousch> okie dokie
<snap-l> http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/ubuntu-michigan/362/detail/
<snap-l> There's the agenda
<snap-l> First off, welcome everyone
<snap-l> Pretty much everything on the agenda relates to Penguicon. :)
<rick_h> party
<snap-l> We have a Precise Pangolin (12.04) release party scheduled at Penguicon on Friday at 7pm - 8pm
<snap-l> It'll be in the Thomas room, which Penguicon has graciously set up for us
<rick_h> one hour?
<snap-l> So that'll be pretty awesome
<snap-l> Yeah, one hour
<snap-l> That's the time we had last year, and I figure it's when the crazy starts happening. :)
<snap-l> You'll need to have a day-pass for Penguicon if you're not already attending
<greg-g> weee
<brousch> snap-l: i just added west mi release party to the agenda
<snap-l> But I'd highly recommend coming to Penguicon anyway, because a) it's a lot of fun, and b) we finally got rick_h to speak at it
<snap-l> brousch: Awesome. We can talk about that after Penguicon.
<greg-g> he did a packaging jam once
<greg-g> s/jam/talk/
<snap-l> greg-g: Yes, and we know how special these events can be
<snap-l> it's like the blooming of the corpse flower.
<brousch> sounds wonderfully disgusting
<snap-l> Anywho.... :)
<snap-l> One of the other events scheduled for Penguicon is a Panel discussion for what's new in 12.04
<snap-l> Which needs some lovely people to talk about what's new in 12.04
<snap-l> (insert your name here)
<snap-l> I'd like to have a few people who can commit to talking about it at Penguicon
<snap-l> Unfortunately the schedule isn't published yet, so I can't give you a day / time that it'll be happening
<snap-l> so, more details forthcoming
<snap-l> If anyone is going to be at Penguicon and would like to talk about 12.04, please send an e-mail to the mailing list
<snap-l> Comments / concerns?
<Ahuka> Looking forward to the party,
<snap-l> OK, is there anything else relating to Penguicon?
<Ahuka> Just get the word out.
<snap-l> I know rick_h is presenting, and I'll be (I think) doing a podcast and juggling there.
<Ahuka> Podcast? Wht kind?
<snap-l> My Open Metalcast
<snap-l> showing how the sausage gets made.
<brousch> juggling 12.04 CDs?
<Ahuka> Is there anyone there you want as a guest?
<snap-l> brousch: Were that they were there, I would love to
<brousch> burn some
<snap-l> Ahuka: I'd love for you to be there, but it's mostly a music podcast.
<Ahuka> I didn't mean me, I mean of the poeple at Penguicon.
<snap-l> Ahuka: If there's any metal folks, maybe we could swing an interview.
<snap-l> CC metal folks.
<Ahuka> I kind of lit a fire under some of the Penguicon folks.
<Ahuka> Told them thier publicity stinks.
<snap-l> Ahuka: Yeah, it's been a little weak this time around
<Ahuka> I suggested they get Bruce Schneier to interview for Sunday Morning Linux Review.
<snap-l> but I think part of it is that the con-chair quit
<Ahuka> Not the con chair's job to do publicity, really.
<snap-l> regardless, I see Penguicon as the skidding into the finish line, tires on fire, gas tank about to explode, type of show.
<Ahuka> Though I can sympathize for the problem.
<snap-l> This does not surprise me
<greg-g> another nice visual
<snap-l> greg-g: They call me Mr. Metaphor
<snap-l> OK, brousch, what's happening in west MI?
<brousch> release party during the regular monthly WMLUG meeting
<brousch> pizza, pop
<greg-g> "pop"
<brousch> not nearly as exciting as penguicon
 * brousch eyeballs greg-g
<brousch> those dirty west coast hippies have you saying soda now?
<brousch> i'll hand out CDs and swag
<greg-g> brousch: I've always said soda, after I said "coke" when I lived in TX
<brousch> commie!
<rick_h> soda foreva!
<rick_h> pop only lives in MI hippy hearts because the yuppers won one
 * greg-g apologizes for only derailing the meeting
<snap-l> greg-g: I don't think there's much sodium in soda.
<snap-l> but there is pop in pop. ;)
<greg-g> snap-l: pop is a noise, soda is a drink ;P
 * snap-l gets out the club... coda.
<snap-l> soda, rather.
<snap-l> Any...who...
<snap-l> brousch: When is the meet-up, and where can we lear more?
<greg-g> +n
<brousch> hm, i thought it was on the team thing
<snap-l> It is, but I wanted you to point that out.
<snap-l> hint hint
<brousch> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-michigan/1535/detail/
<brousch> bah, i can never find anything on there
<snap-l> OK, very cool.
<snap-l> Also, this isn't on the agenda, but I'd be remiss for not mentioning it
<snap-l> Ahuka: You're still looking for someone to speak at WALUG about 12.04?
<snap-l> On 5/17?
<snap-l> I'm unfortunately not going to be able to make it, as it's my anniversary that day, and we have pans.
<snap-l> and plans.
<Ahuka> Well, yes, I am, if you have someone. Otherwise, I'll ask you again for like August.
<greg-g> ....to make loud noises with
<greg-g> (sorry, bad timing)
<snap-l> Ahuka: I haven't found anyone yet.
<snap-l> If anyone on the channel, however, would like to volunteer.... :)
<Ahuka> Then don't worry about it. It won't kill anyone in LUGWASH to have an open discussion for a change.
<brousch> snap-l: how about if ahuka provides candles and wine?
<snap-l> hah
<snap-l> brousch: Didn't realize you were the romantic type, but if you're volunteering... :)
<Ahuka> brousch, it's not *that* kind of group.
<snap-l> I'm sure it can be arranged.
<brousch> no, too far away for me. also i have no idea what's going on in 12.04 unity
<Ahuka> Me either, that is why I was looking for an expert.
<greg-g> where's jcastro when you need 'em
<Ahuka> He told me Craig would take his place.<g>
<snap-l> On a beach in Florida.
<brousch> what happened to that DBO guy?
<Ahuka> Anyway, I installed Unity on one of mmy boxes.
<snap-l> DBO doesn't hang out here much
<snap-l> probably because when he does, we start beating him up for Unity stuff
<Ahuka> Turns out it is not the personifcation of evil. Who knew?
<brousch> Ahuka: i disbelieve
<Ahuka> Normally I stick to the Blue-haired Stepchild.
<snap-l> Yeah, I think the step-children are going off to colleg
<brousch> Ahuka: a man after my own heart
<snap-l> and aren't getting the support they once had from papa canonical
<Ahuka> snap-l, I'm not sure that will matter too much.
<Ahuka> Losing one developer should not be the end of the world.
<snap-l> Ahuka: Well, it's no longer directly linked
<brousch> xubuntu is leaving
<snap-l> was that an april fools, or was it serious?
<greg-g> fools
<brousch> i thought it was from a few days ago
 * greg-g is typing one handed
 * greg-g has Rowan
<snap-l> Let Rowan type the other hand. :)
<greg-g> , mujklj,k
<brousch> geekers
<brousch> bah, it is dated 4/1
<brousch> good
<snap-l> OK, anything else for this meeting
<brousch> snap-l: thanks for running things again!
<greg-g> yep yep
<greg-g> thanks
<snap-l> np.
<snap-l> Thanks everyone for coming out!
<snap-l> Hope to see you all at the release parties!
<_stink_> oo
<_stink_> i vote yes
<_stink_> on everything
<snap-l> I have created an extra-long OMC
<snap-l> Trying to narrow down 8 CC artists to highlight for a new audience
<snap-l> (punchline) it's not 8 artists.
<rick_h> morning
<snap-l> Good morning
<brousch> Merry Monday!
<rick_h> ugh
<brousch> Come on now. You had all weekend to relax and recharge for the week
<rick_h> yea, I did some of that
<brousch> Buck up and dive in!
<brousch> omg i just found some new KDE awesome
<brousch> the same export plugins in DigiKam are available in gwenview
<jrwren> rick_h: screen maintains $WINDOW environment variable. i found TMUX_PANE but that is different. what do you use for $WINDOW?
<brousch> so i don't have to start up digikam (5-10 minute boot) to export photos
<jrwren> 5-10min boot?  WTF?
<rick_h> jrwren: what would I use $WINDOW for?
<jrwren> what is this 1994?
<jrwren> rick_h: i use $WINDOW in my $PS1 so I know which screen window I am in
<brousch> jrwren: another case of 4GB is not enough for me
<rick_h> jrwren: have to find it out of list-windows? https://github.com/matschaffer/profile/blob/master/tmux.conf
<rick_h> not sure, I've not used that before sorry
<jrwren> rick_h: thanks. no worries. you are my go to guru about this stuff.
<rick_h> I'm kind of confused though, are you not using any status window?
<rick_h> is that why you don't know which window you're in?
<jrwren> i usually know.
<jrwren> but i got used to looking at PS1 for that.
<rick_h> k
<jrwren> byobu-tmux only uses 1 status line instead of 2, so i don't have a clear picture of current window based on status line
<jrwren> maybe i can make byobu-tmux use 2 status lines, I'm not sure.
<rick_h> ah, yea no idea. Not using byobu
<jrwren> I like byobu really only for the network section.
<jrwren> i also miss ctrl-a,ctrl-a to toggle between windows. (screen)  - I need ot lookup how to do that in byobu
<jrwren> err... in tmux i mean
<rick_h> # bind C-a to the previously active window
<rick_h> bind-key C-a last-window
<jrwren> thanks! that rocks.
<jrwren> rick_h: whoa, sorry to bother you, but one huge difference i just noticed is with processes sessions attached to same
<jrwren> session
<jrwren> when I change windows in one it changes in the other. in screen they were really separate so in xterm1 i could attach and toggle between screen windows 1 & 2 and in xterm2 toggle between windows 3 & 4
<snap-l> jrwren: Yeah, tmux keeps them as the same session
<snap-l> that's the beauty of tmux
<jrwren> that isn't beauty.
<jrwren> surely there is a toggle.
<jrwren> i'll RTFM
<snap-l> jrwren: It is beauty, and if you don't see that, you're a luddite. ;)
<brousch> snap-l: steve jobs would not have approved it, therefore it is ugly
<rick_h> jrwren: yea, it's a big difference and one that somtimes annoys and sometimes I love
<rick_h> jrwren: it does make it an awesome remote pairing kind of thing
<jrwren> snap-l: you are a namecalling namecaller.
<jrwren> sure, but there are wasy to do the remote paring thing exactly the same with screen.
<jcastro> good morning!
<jrwren> if there is no way to make tmux NOT do this, then its a defficiency and something screen can do that tmux cannot and THAT is weak.
<snap-l> jrwren: Takes a namecalling namecaller to know a namecalled namecallering namecaller.
<rick_h> party jcastro
<snap-l> jcastro: wb
<jrwren> good morning jcastro <3 u
<jrwren> tmux new-session -t 0
<jrwren> YAYA
<jrwren> that starts tmux with a new client session to an existing server
<jrwren> to get separate window behavior like screen.
<rick_h> heh, finally spent a few minute to go aroud and git pull my various vim bundles
<rick_h> nerdtree got some pretty
<jrwren> oh?
<jrwren> I found Explore and decided I don't need nerd tree :)
<rick_h> yea, little arrows and such
<rick_h> jrwren: linky?
<rick_h> which is "explore" there's a few with explore in the name
<jrwren> well, Explore and Ggrep from fugitive
<jrwren> rick_h: its built into vim.
<jrwren> :Sex and :Vex and :Explore
<rick_h> huh? fugative is the git tool
<rick_h> ah, gotcha
<jrwren> yeah, Ggrep puts matches into the error list and then I just nav the error list.
<jrwren> I don't care what file its in, I just go to the match :)
<rick_h> yea, I use :vimgrep all the time
<jrwren> its esp great for learning huge new codebases.
<jrwren> cuz I have no idea what file something is in
<jrwren> but I just Ggrep for it.
<rick_h> but I do like walking around with nerdtree since it's a full overview
<jrwren> *nod* I'd probably use it a ton coming from VS's solution explorer
<rick_h> but yea, vimgrep + ctrlp have gotten rid of 80% of my nerdtree usuage
<rick_h> yay for more px for editing!
<jrwren> yup. YAY
<greg-g> jrwren: so, I've only read parts of the scrollback, why tmux over screen?
<rick_h> it's awesome! and much friendlier to scripting/etc
<greg-g> heh
<jrwren> greg-g: i'm changing for 2 reasons: 1> philosphy regarding accepting patches.   2> I prefer BSD license to GPL license
<rick_h> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/593/
<snap-l> It also feels a lot lighter than screen
<snap-l> plus the scripting is utterly amazing.
<jrwren> greg-g: jcastro could probably tell us details, but I gather than byobu tried to send screen patches and they said "no ty" and so rather than fork screen, byobu went ot tmux and tmux said "tyvm"
<rick_h> yea, that's part of it
<rick_h> but tmux has much nicer usability for things
<rick_h> I know I use :kill-window -t xx a lot more now
<jcastro> screen is very sluggish upstream
<rick_h> the ability to :somecommand is just awesome for tweaking/doing things outside of the normal config you setup ahead of time
<jcastro> it's old, and was stagnating
<jcastro> and then tmux came around
<jcastro> dustin tells me the code is much smaller, cleaner, easier to maintain
<jcastro> that and the  guy accepted his patches right away
<jcastro> and if you use it, it's so much better you won't even care about screen anymore
<jcastro> it's totally badass
<snap-l> It's kinda like the difference between git and svn
<snap-l> svn is perfectly usable, but stagnant
<jcastro> try the splits in tmux
<snap-l> git gives you superpowers.
<jcastro> it's basically the awesomest thing ever
<jrwren> rick_h: screen has : commands, but probably not as extensive as what tmux can do
<snap-l> jcastro: I have. They're rockstar.
<rick_h> meh, the splits I don't get. You want to tile, then using a tiling WM :)
<jcastro> hah
<rick_h> It breaks all kinds of usage
<snap-l> rick_h: They're good if you're on a ssh window
<snap-l> and want to run pep8 without switching
<jrwren> and I'm ALWAYS on a ssh window :)
<rick_h> meh, well you're already in vim then so you just run ,M anyway ;)
<snap-l> because I'm not super awesome like rick_h
<rick_h> I guess, at that point though I find my WM does a better job than tmux does
<snap-l> and ,M maps to what, exactly?
<snap-l> (for those of us not using .vimrc.rick_h)
<rick_h> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/594/
<rick_h> there done, and you get to auto jump to the errors to fix from the quickfix window the way vim intended
<rick_h> running pep8 outside of vim is next to pointless
<jrwren> i don't run pip8, i just vim-pyflakes and pray
<rick_h> heh, yea but that doesn't catch spacing violations and such
<rick_h> ,m == pyflakes ,M == pep8
<rick_h> and ,m == jslint in a js file, phpcodesniffer in a php file, csslint in a css file, etc
<rick_h> voilations in the quickfix window for auto jumping around to each location directly
<jrwren> how about syntastic?
<rick_h> so I've just not gotten that going well
<jrwren> me either.:)
<rick_h> but I guess run it against a manual pep8/etc and let me know if it keeps things clean
<rick_h> run I run things on the CI server it's running pep8/pylint/jslint from the cmd line
<rick_h> so same tool for me in the dev env
<snap-l> rick_h: That is awesome.
<snap-l> I have syntastic running fine
<rick_h> snap-l: which is awesome?
<snap-l> the pep8 in vim
<rick_h> yea, best way to go
<rick_h> I spent a bunch of time trying to get everything in the qiuckfix window, it's a damn powerful thing
<snap-l> Regardless, splits are pretty nice if you're using it via ssh
<snap-l> that way you don't need two sessions
<rick_h> ok, well I'm a split fan in most places so I understand
<rick_h> just find my issues copying/pasting/etc out of split windows to be a pain so I use WM splits vs tmux splits
<rick_h> but yea, splits still ftw
<snap-l> Yeah, though I think tmux fixes c/p between splits
<snap-l> honestly haven't run into that, though
<snap-l> I use wm c/p more than I ought
<snap-l> btw: I've been getting nailed by some EC2 bots on OMC
<snap-l> they go through and crawl everything, including the mp3/ogg files at an amazing rate
<rick_h> you've set the robots.txt?
<snap-l> I've put in some rate limiting, so if you decide to download more than X number of mp3 / ogg files at once, it'll bomb
<snap-l> Yeah, I hadn't set it to not index wp-* stuff.
<snap-l> I have that set now
<snap-l> but since it wasn't adhering to the seconds between crawls, I don't think it would have mattered.
<rick_h> right, but can't you say not to index the .ogg files?
<rick_h> and it should never hit it, if it does you can blacklist it?
<jrwren> mod-bw ?
<snap-l> Two separate IP addresses
<snap-l> so blacklisting = pointless
<snap-l> jrwren: nginx
<krondor> do you set a max-age?  Maybe those crawlers are expecting that for refresh interval?
<snap-l> I don't have a max-age on the mp3 / ogg files
<jrwren> hipster.
<snap-l> jrwren: I can't hear you over my skinny jeans.
<jrwren> snap-l: lol
<snap-l> they make everything muffly.
<jrwren> snap-l: how is that iphone and macbook ?
<snap-l> jrwren: so last century
<krondor> It seems counterintuitive to set a max-age for something that won't change (finished episodes), but I've seen clients that think no-age means always refresh if nothing is given.
<snap-l> krondor: I've thought about setting that, however there have been times when I've needed to update an episode
<snap-l> and frankly, you're not likely to keep an episode in cache
<krondor> so maybe just setting it to something short if you need to update could influence these crawls, maybe..
<snap-l> Possible.
<rick_h> yea, I mean end of the day you're expecting htem to listen to the rules, but if they don't you just need to block the ips
<krondor> rick_h:  yeah there's only so much workaround for badly behaving things you should do before you say, I don't want to allow this bad thing and they should adhere to the rules.
<rick_h> yea, I mean it's not like you're losing $$ or customers by blocking a misbehaving bot from your podcast episodes
<rick_h> time wasted > *
<snap-l> My biggest fear is wasted bandwidth
<snap-l> which is why I put in the connection limiting on the episodes
<jrwren> front it with apache and use modbw
<snap-l> frankly, if you're downloading more than X eopisodes at a time, your client is broken
<jrwren> or find a modbw for nginx
<snap-l> jrwren: I'm not concerned (right now) with limiting outbound bandwidth
<snap-l> Every download gets counted against my monthly quota.
<rick_h> yea, kind of defeats the s3 hosting
<snap-l> Well, linode, but same thing
<jrwren> a bit different.
<jrwren> s3 is $ per xfer, not quota
<rick_h> oh, I thought they were hosted in s3
<rick_h> nvm then
<snap-l> No, not currently.
<snap-l> But still, they eat a little bit of my monthly pie
<snap-l> I'm already at 4% usage, and it's 2 days into the month
<rick_h> 2.0/31
<rick_h> 0.0645161
<rick_h> so you're ahead of the game :)
<snap-l> pfft
<snap-l> and it's 2.0 / 30 for this moth
<snap-l> So .66
<rick_h> ok, so as long as you're under 6.6% you're doing great
<greg-g> assuming constant download rate over the month, which is crazy talk ;)
<brousch> right. downloads will increase after release of each podcast
<rick_h> didn't he just release?
<rick_h> ok, well the 27th
<snap-l> Yes
<snap-l> and another is going to be released tomorrow
<rick_h> but yea, anyway, just saying being at 4% on the second day isn't death
<rick_h> but still, misbehaving clients == banned in my book
<snap-l> rick_h: unless you're partnering with another podcasting network
<rick_h> does http://bmark.us now load for any chrome users?
<snap-l> who will drive God-knows-what traffic
<rick_h> and if yes, are you on the latest dev version?
<snap-l> rick_h: It's loading here
<rick_h> snap-l: can you check which chrome version you're on?
<snap-l> 18.0.1025.142
<snap-l> I'm chasing stable, afaik
<rick_h> hmm, not loading on firefox nightly either...wtf
<brousch> rick_h: bmark loads for me
<brousch> 18.0.1025.142
<rick_h> ok, well I'll have to figure it out tonight I guess. Glad it's not broken for everyone atm
<brousch> did you clear your cache? :P
<snap-l> Have you tried turning it off and on again?
<rick_h> heh yea, definitely cleared my cache
<rick_h> in chrome the request fails, looks like the redirect breaking it
<rick_h> in firefox though it seems fine, just never loads
<rick_h> and it was working, but did updates today so assuming since it works for you guys I'm hitting bleeding edge browser issues perhaps
<rick_h> since I'm on nightlies in FF and dev version in chrome, I'm on 19
<rick_h> really cool https://github.com/blog/1081-instantly-beautiful-project-pages
<rick_h> making the github pages stuff a bit easier to get started iwth
<rick_h> ok crazy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b4ZZQkcNEo
<brousch> doesn't seem crazy
<rick_h> I find it impressive it's able to launch itself like that
<jrwren> i like its durability
<brousch> I like its rugged good looks
<snap-l> rick_h: That's not nearly as creepy as this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83ULlgpT1UQ
<rick_h> ok, that's a bit strange
<snap-l> Imagine that tearing after you.
<rick_h> well I think I'd just turn :)
<snap-l> rick_h: Well, yeah, for now.
<snap-l> But the days of autonomous robots distributing bundles of pain with your name on it are coming.
<greg-g> RAT THING!
<rick_h> greg-g: ftw!
<rick_h> booo, did a big upgrade on the precise machine and no WM coming up
<rick_h> just lovely wallpaper
<greg-g> heh
<rick_h> yea, I should give it more love than I do, but I guess a machine you only visit every once in a while is a bad candidate for running a beta on
<greg-g> heh, you mean you don't dog food every day on your main work machine?
<snap-l> heh
<rick_h> umm nope. I've been holding out because of pycon and then since I don't believe in upgrades not had a chance for a reinstall
<rick_h> but that's why I keep the second machine around running, so I can say I'm dog fooding :)
<brousch> upgrades happen whether you believe in them or not
<rick_h> yea, but I don't do them, I do reinstalls
<brousch> snap-l: I like http://spikethetomb.bandcamp.com/ from OMC Ep 43
<snap-l> Yeah, they're pretty good
<snap-l> They ran out of free downloads, though, so I can't download anything else but Pyrophile
<snap-l> That's not the first band that I've had that problem
<greg-g> ran out of free downloads?
 * greg-g looks
<snap-l> Yeah, they only get a certain number of them
<greg-g> huh
<greg-g> odd
<snap-l> at least that's how I've had it explained to me
<greg-g> yeah, interesting pricing scheme
<greg-g> (I've started replacing "business model" with "pricing scheme" :) )
<greg-g> (that way I get to remember the grand ole days of CS 1301, intro to comp sci via Scheme)
<snap-l> greg-g: sorry to hear that.
<greg-g> :)
<snap-l> http://mvsm.bandcamp.com/album/de-lo-inevitable <- I've never been able to download this album
<snap-l> not sure what the heck is the problem
<greg-g> I wonder if they (the band) chose not to allow downloads?
<snap-l> It's possible.
<brousch> snap-l: free downloads are one thing, but i can't even pay for the album?
<snap-l> Of course I can go to Jamendo and find their stuff there.
<snap-l> brousch: Trust me, I don't understand some bands
<brousch> i mean spike the tomb
<brousch> no download or pay link
<snap-l> brousch: That too
<snap-l> brousch: If you want to contact them, please feel free
<snap-l> I want to download the rest of their album
<brousch> ok, sent a message
<snap-l> tx
<snap-l> I think I know why I don't listen to Caress of Steel more often
<snap-l> It's all about aging, revolution, and D&D
<snap-l> I'm already doing that.
<snap-l> ;)
<jcastro> also probably because it's a crap album
<snap-l> Meh, it's not that bad of an album
<snap-l> I mean, how can you deny Didacts and Narpets?
<greg-g> snap-l: loving the instrumental OMC #5
<greg-g> (as usual, love the instrumental casts)
<_Marcus> I don't get why that timezone link is in the topic. All of Michigan except for a little part is EST
<rick_h> well it's because the website for the loco deals in UTC and we often have to convert times
<rick_h> and whenever there's an event, ubuntu developer week, etc it's in UTC times
<_Marcus> Oh
<greg-g> also, it may have been a joke, I don't remember
<greg-g> or, qausi joke
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-04-03
<jcastro> hey rick_h
<jcastro> what was that set of rechargeable batteries you were into?
<rick_h> jcastro: http://www.amazon.com/Sanyo-eneloop-Pre-Charged-Rechargeable-Batteries/dp/B004UG41XW/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1333411706&sr=8-3
<rick_h> and the XX for things that you don't want to charge much
<jcastro> and those are the current bee's knees?
<rick_h> yea, imo
<jcastro> ok so, for the charger
<jcastro> what are you using?
<rick_h> I just use the ones that they come with. You can get the 4battery sets with a wall charger
<rick_h> I've got a pair of them
<jcastro> http://www.amazon.com/Sanyo-Eneloop-Charger-Rechargeable-Batteries/dp/B003VLAEPQ/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1333411903&sr=8-2
<jcastro> I was thinking 2 of these
<jcastro> outta do it
<rick_h> yea, I've gotten one of those
<rick_h> just remember to add a charge buffer vs what you need
<rick_h> I kept ordering when I needed them, but then had to get another set since you want charged ones ready to go
<jcastro> ordered
<snap-l> greg-g: Glad you're enjoying the instrumetalcasts.
<snap-l> Program note: If your sig other is watching netflix, it is not a good time to try uploading shit to your wensite
<snap-l> website, even
<snap-l> http://openmetalcast.com/2012/04/03/open-metalcast-episode-44-infected-injection/
<snap-l> Hopefully they'll release the episode today. :)
<nullspace> snap-l: looks like you have a QoS problem
<snap-l> nullspace: How so? Uploading canning my network?
<rick_h> yea, I have had that
<rick_h> you'd think they'd be really split pipes, but hammering the upload really hammers download as well
<snap-l> Well, I had QoS running
<snap-l> but it seemed like it made everything suck equally
<rick_h> heh yea
<snap-l> Probably because a) I don't quite understand it, and b) it's non-trivial to get right
<rick_h> damn network engineers do actual work?! no way!
<snap-l> Heh
<rick_h> I always find 'home networking' one of the great lies out there.
<rick_h> "it's plug n play!" whatever
<snap-l> I think the bigger lie is the 1Mbps pipe
<rick_h> tinkered around with Go last night. So strange to code in something that requires compile steps
<rick_h> but finally see why vim has built in make commands and such
<snap-l> Yeah, it makes things really nice.
<snap-l> And just to add insult to injury, I am running QoS.
<snap-l> Thought I turned it off
<brousch> power outages are fun
<snap-l> brousch: Highly not recommended.
<rick_h> heh, yea not fun, but thank you batteries
<brousch> 75% of our UPSes are on year 7 of their 3 year life span
<snap-l> brousch: Oh that's not good at all
<brousch> the important ones are up to date
<greg-g> g'morn
<snap-l> g'mornin.
<rick_h> party
<jrwren> afternoon
<jrwren> oh, west coast. good morning to greg
<greg-g> :) thanks
<greg-g> if it helps, I have been up (effectively) since about 5ish my time (8ish your time)
<jrwren> omg, me too!
<greg-g> which, 8am your time or 5am your time :)
<jrwren> 8am my time
<greg-g> jerk
<rick_h> heh, close greg-g 6am my time
<rick_h> you beat me by a hour
<rick_h> I hate SF...I'm sorry but damn I hate it with a passion.
<greg-g> hahaha, what happened?
<rick_h> "Add Artifact" ... wtf is an artifact and why is it under the "Add new" in the "tracker"
<greg-g> oh, i thought you meant San Francisco
<rick_h> don't expose your internal names for crap out to the work in giant button form. I don't want to see Trove, artifact, and other generic terms that don't mean crap to what I'm trying to do
<rick_h> oh no, I didn't spend any time in SF to hate it. Now SF cabbies...ugh...I'm just glad I'm still alive
<greg-g> haha
<rick_h> I'm sorry, but going from MI where everyone goes 10over the speed limit to a cab driver that can't get within 15mph of the speed limit, while getting almost run over by traffic, while I'm trying to make a flight on time...
<rick_h> rough drive...
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> yeah, don't do 10 over here, they'll ticket you
<greg-g> a friend/ex-coworker learned that the hard way, 3 times :)
<greg-g> (old habits die hard)
<rick_h> yea, but at least get near the speed limit. Especially when traffic is honking at your and whizzing around you
<rick_h> ouch...
<greg-g> hehe
<rick_h> shoot, 3 times he got honked at for not staying in his lane, we were swaying like a drunkard
<rick_h> but yea, the pycon hotel/convention center is kind of in the middle of no where so I missed out on a decent CA experience
<greg-g> yeah
<jrwren> http://i.imgur.com/rH33r.jpg
<jrwren> ^^ esp snap-l and greg-g
<snap-l> http://decafbad.net/2012/04/03/the-agony-and-ecstasy-of-radio-shack/
<snap-l> jrwren: Yeah, I love that. :)
<greg-g> jrwren++
<snap-l> Also, that bot that was crawling my site? I did the next best thing to blocking it: I submitted an Amazon abuse report
<snap-l> apparently I'm not the only one who has been aggressively crawled.
<snap-l> (by that bot)
<jrwren> i want to be agressively crawled.
<jrwren> do slow response filtering.
<jrwren> snap-l: http://tumblr.jonthornton.com/post/641219929/rate-limiting-with-nginx
<jrwren> also: http://wiki.nginx.org/HttpLimitReqModule
<jrwren> i want ot write a module that strikes back.
<jrwren> send teh response i char at a time with 1 sec delay between packets.
<jrwren> muhuwahahahah
<jrwren> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5lkxSY7QsI
<snap-l> jrwren: That is awesome.
<snap-l> http://www.openculture.com/2012/04/andy_warhol_digitally_paints_debbie_harry_with_the_amiga_1000_computer_1985.html
<snap-l> brousch: Thanks! Sent an e-mail to Spike The Tomb
<brousch> good stuff
<greg-g> you know it is sad when I can rely on Google's non-standard IMAP servers more than I can Canonical's Tomboy Sync feature.
<snap-l> That Tomboy sync felt like a huge kludge
<greg-g> except, it isn't really, they have Snowy (a sync server built on django) and tomboy-online.org which is the reference implementation
<rick_h> yea, but that doesn't tie into the data store back end of U1 and such
<snap-l> Mojo Nixon - Don Henley Must Die
<greg-g> which I don't really care about, I just want syncing to work
<rick_h> greg-g: yea, understand
<greg-g> snap-l: gpodder syncs your podcasts across computers/devices?
<greg-g> but doesn't host the files on their servers, right?
 * greg-g is looking for a hosted or self-hosted podcast solution
<snap-l> greg-g: I've never used gpodder recently
<snap-l> so I have NFC how it works.
<greg-g> ah, I thought you did
<greg-g> what do you use now?
<snap-l> Miro
<greg-g> oh
<greg-g> I want to like Miro, really really badly, just seems so bloated to me
<greg-g> s/seems/feels/
<snap-l> Yeah, it's gotten worse
<snap-l> I keep thinking about dumping it
<greg-g> :(
<snap-l> But the only podcatching client that I really liked was the one that I wrote.
<snap-l> and it's between releases.
<snap-l> as in I have to rewrite it
<greg-g> "between releases" :)
<greg-g> "I'm.... between jobs"
<greg-g> "I'm.... between wives" (hey now, that doesn't sound too bad)
<waldo323_> who's?
<greg-g> no comment
<greg-g> snap-l: btw, nice intro to the Metal Injection episode
<snap-l> greg-g: Thank you. I had some help. ;)
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> well you get a plus one from me
<snap-l> And, in the "wtf were they smoking" department, apparently there's a .xlsm file extension
<greg-g> spreadsheets for your mobile device?
<snap-l> .xlsx is for non-macro Excel files, .xlsm is for macro Excel files.
<greg-g> well that makes sense, an easy way to ignore things which are definitely not going to work in LO (macros)
<waldo323_> is that why people have been complaining their macros weren't working?
<snap-l> Which doesn't help when your script is looking for .zip, .csv, .xls, and .xlsx files.
<snap-l> waldo323_: Possibly
<greg-g> just do .xls* and trust your input :)
<waldo323_> thanks
<snap-l> greg-g: I'd like what you're smoking too
<snap-l> Some good shit out there.
<greg-g> "yeah man, I *trust* my users to send me sensible data. its like, the only truly cool thing to do, ya know?"
<snap-l> greg-g: Were it up to me, they'd send me the password to the database they're likely grabbing this data out of anyway.
<greg-g> "oh yeah, we all share passwords too, man. We're all brothers and sisters here"
<snap-l> http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf/2012/04/mikel_leshoure_tried_to_eat_ma.html <- Please please PLEASE make people have to sign for potpourri.
<snap-l> That would make me a happy man
<brousch> why?
<snap-l> Because I can't stand the normal use of potpourri, and it might make people think about banning substances because of illegitimate uses.
<snap-l> ie: pseudophedrine
 * greg-g loves pseudophedrine
 * greg-g hates having to give his id to get it
<greg-g> (and his use being logged)
<greg-g> it is one thing to show id to get a beer, it is another if everyone who bought beer was on a list with how much they bought and that was shared with the gov't
<snap-l> greg-g: ++
<brousch> pseudoephedrine gives me angine. it's like a double-shot of espresso
<brousch> angina
<snap-l> brousch: That's OK. You can have lotradine
<snap-l> which for is is the same as a placebo
<brousch> i only take it for sinus infections
<brousch> i have none of these silly allergy things
<snap-l> brousch: Live in Detroit for a while. You will.
<snap-l> I think it's because we're downwind of all of the bullshit downtown
<brousch> seems like there'd be fewer allergens in an asphalt wasteland
<snap-l> brousch: Maybe that explains GR then ;)
<brousch> we have grass and trees
<snap-l> brousch: So do we
<brousch> detroit trees and grass always seem like they're covered in a grayish film
<Blazeix> but in our case, "trees and grass" are both slang
<snap-l> brousch: Nah, they're covered in buildings
<brousch> telephone poles do not count as trees
<snap-l> http://www.thecoolist.com/abandoned-places-10-creepy-beautiful-modern-ruins/ruins-of-detroit_marchand-and-meffre_8-2/
<snap-l> http://davidjrodger.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/detroit-urban-decay-reclaimed-by-nature.jpg?w=614
<brousch> lovely
<greg-g> ahhh, ruin porn
<widox> or I dunno, how about the _nice_ parts of the city, http://is.gd/OIOFrR
<snap-l> widox: PHOTOSHOP!
<jrwren> snap-l: Mojo Nixon don't work here.
<snap-l> those pots are actually homeless people
<snap-l> jrwren: IF you don't know Mojo Nixon, then your place could use some fixin'
<jrwren> snap-l: ;)
<jrwren> snap-l: I linked that youtube video to a friend, without telling him what it was.
<jrwren> this is his response:
<jrwren> YOU DON'T JUST PULL MOJO NIXON OUT OF NOWHERE JAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<jrwren> i did a spit take
<jrwren> :)
<jrwren> --
<snap-l> hahahaha
<_stink_> snap-l: thanks for that earworm :)
<snap-l> _stink_: You're welcome. :)
<snap-l> Which one? :)
<_stink_> Punk Rock Girl.
<snap-l> Yeah, that's an awesome song. :)
<krondor> love me some Dead Milkmen
<snap-l> Well, it's live
<jcastro> http://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/rruma/why_the_juju_charm_store_will_change_the_way_you/
<jcastro> upvotes please!
<jcastro> http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3795109
<jcastro> can I get some upvotes?
<jcastro> rick_h: ^ jrwren ^
<greg-g> upboats
<rick_h> jcastro: up
<jcastro> MORE BOATS PLS.
<snap-l> upbated
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-04-04
<snap-l> Any thoughts on the Samsung Galaxy S II?
<snap-l> Yes, I am thinking about going with Ting for a wireless provider
<rick_h> snap-l: good phone
<snap-l> Worth $415?
<rick_h> ouch, a little bit high, but I guess you're buying raw unsub'd hardware and it's probably going rate
<snap-l> Yeah, it's month-to-month
<snap-l> not unlocked, afaict, though
<snap-l> but not having a contract is appealing
<rick_h> yea
<rick_h> I guess just split out the cost over the estimated time and make sure you count it
<snap-l> Yeah,
<greg-g> snap-l: ting looks really interesting
<greg-g> snap-l: I have VirginMobile with a kind of crappy old android. but the price is about the same. I think I would save ~$3/mo on Ting vs VM with my usage (but probably have to buy a new phone)
<snap-l> Yeah, I decided to roll with it
<snap-l> worst case, it'll suck, but it's an improvement over what I have now
<snap-l> which is bullshit
 * greg-g nods
<greg-g> good deal then
<greg-g> * > bullshit
<snap-l> Anyone want a broken TI-89?
<snap-l> Guaranteed to be good for parts.
<snap-l> send me your address (craig@decafbad.net) and I'll ship it to you.
<snap-l> tired of moving it around on my desk
<greg-g> I MISS MY OLD TI-89!
<snap-l> greg-g: It's yours if you want a project
<snap-l> guaranteed not to work
<snap-l> I don't know what is wrong with it, but if you want to take a chance on it, I'm willing to foot the bill
<greg-g> no thanks, I have a (I think) working one somewhere :)
<snap-l> greg-g: Have two
<snap-l> I already know the address, what's the zip? :)
<greg-g> hah
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> I am now up to 17% of my bandwidth used for the month. :)
<rick_h> morning
<rick_h> ouch on the 17%
<snap-l> rick_h: Yeah, I think I'm going to need to find an alternative location for these files
<snap-l> or pop for more bandwidth
<snap-l> but it's a nice problem to have.
<snap-l> 378 downloads of the latest episode
<snap-l> (that's not including iphone downloads, which do some strange chunk downloading
<snap-l> Ah, it does partial downloading
<rick_h> yea, I noticed that when I checked my s3 logs, lots of partials so it hits a ton of times
<rick_h> well, I'll say the s3 thing works great for lococast, costs < $7/mo I think and that includes my own storage I put up there
<snap-l> Yeah, that's something I'm considering
<snap-l> also archive.org, since it's CC metal.
<rick_h> ah, cool
<brousch> snap-l: wrt your OMC downloads, i have noticed that your files are about 3x larger/minute compared to other podcasts.
<snap-l> That's because I encode VBR
<snap-l> and quality 0
<snap-l> and yes, that's probably overkill
<brousch> so you could save some bandwidth there
<snap-l> I'm going to play with the settings a bit to see if I can get those sizes down
<snap-l> and not lose quality.
<brousch> actually i'd be happy to put some files on my dreamhost if you'd like
<brousch> "unlimited" storage and bandwidth
<snap-l> brousch: Thank you. I think I'll be fine
<snap-l> I can add more bandwidth if necessary
<snap-l> Just a nice problem to have. :)
<brousch> is it bots or people?
<snap-l> direct downloads
<snap-l> from people
<snap-l> the bot problem was something else entirely
<brousch> that is nice
<snap-l> http://www.metalinjection.net/podcasts
<brousch> oh yeah, baby
<brousch> Vimmers, check out TerminalIDE in this article http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/australia/programming-for-android-on-android/854
<rick_h> heh, cool
<rick_h> but can it run my .vimrc?!
<brousch> i don't know
<snap-l> rick_h: I think there are cray machines that might have trouble with your .vimrc
<brousch> snap-l: you would ban me from OMC if i told you the music i was currently listening to and enjoying
<snap-l> brousch: I probably would ask for a copy.
 * snap-l is a music omnivore
<brousch> http://www.amazon.com/Crazy-Frog-Presents-Hits/dp/B000ALZHIO
<brousch> http://www.amazon.com/More-Crazy-Hits-Frog/dp/B000GBEW8E
<snap-l> You're right. What's the IP range for GR?
<snap-l> ;)
<brousch> a few of those are good remixes
<brousch> check out rock steady on the second one
<brousch> axel F and pump up the jam on the first
<rick_h> I find this idea of "is a programming language reliable" a bit facinating http://stats.stackexchange.com/questions/25811/is-the-r-language-reliable-for-the-field-of-economics
<snap-l> Gee, the community can dictate whether a language is crap or not
<snap-l> I think we saw that with PHP. ;)
<rick_h> can't?
<rick_h> /can/can't ... we saw that with php?
<snap-l> I mean that PH may or may not be a fine language, but the community it created gives it the reputation of being VB programmers on steroids.
<snap-l> (responding to the selected answer)
<jrwren> reliable is a good question.
<jrwren> that idiot stats prof is no different than the idiot compsci prof that thinks solaris is better than linux.
<rick_h> I don't know, I keep thinking that a programming language is the very definition of reliable
<rick_h> you give it precise steps, and test that same input == same output
<rick_h> how can a lanuage possibly not be reliable.
<rick_h> now your implementation I can get, but the way that is phrased as "Is programming language X reliable?" is batty
<jrwren> but how easy is it to give it those precise steps.
<jrwren> e.g. the sorting bug in java that existed for 10+ yrs because of 32bit math limits
<jrwren> ah.
<jrwren> well, i agree with you.
<jrwren> his phrasing was NOT that of a computer scientist.
<jrwren> a good computer scientist would never phrase things that way
<rick_h> true I guess
<rick_h> anyway, funny start of the day
<krondor> rick_h: only seeing part of this convo, there's bugs in the languages where your output can't result from your input, but that's pedantic.
<rick_h> yea, but if you think about something that's 'reliable' just seems a programming language is about as reliable as something can be.
<rick_h> 778530
<jrwren> until you find ambiguities in the language spec
<jrwren> lookup C or C++ undefined behavior :)
<jrwren> but even that undefined behavior is VERY reliable
<snap-l> Well, calling something a programming language doesn't suddenly imbue it with reliability
<snap-l> We just happen to use languages that have bugs that get fixed. ;)
<brousch> rick_h: what is 778530?
<jrwren> just not linux distros. I'm looking at you launchpad bug #1
<snap-l> brousch: That's his key getting hit
<snap-l> youbikey, iirc
<snap-l> (sp)
<rick_h> brousch: it's this damn yibikey
<brousch> wtf is a yibikey?
<rick_h> I can't even get it to work right with work's 2-facator auth
<rick_h> it's supposed to make my 2-factor auth easy peasy
<snap-l> The furry version of a yubikey.
<rick_h> little thing that sits in my usb port and whenever 2-factor asks for a number I press it with my finger and it dumps a number out
<jrwren> java steals from python http://bugs.sun.com/view_bug.do?bug_id=6804124
<rick_h> unfortunately I keep bumping it
<jrwren> who does the 2 factor?  use duosec! :)
<rick_h> we're starting to use 2-factor
<jrwren> from RSA?
<rick_h> thankfully the phone part works fine
<brousch> so if i collect enough of them along with timestamps i can crack your encryption?
<rick_h> brousch: well you'd still need my password/username
<rick_h> jrwren: python ftw!
<rick_h> bah, and damn hangouts for not using my bluetooth headset
<rick_h> tech is letting me down today
<rick_h> http://www.extremetech.com/computing/124855-maas-effect-canonical-to-lighten-the-load-for-provisioning-bare-metal-clusters
<krondor> the rsa app is a pain on android, I wish I could just use google authenticator everywhere, it works really well, IMO.
<rick_h> yea, I get to use Google authenticator
<jrwren> bookie is blank?
<rick_h> but wish this yubikey
<rick_h> jrwren: on chrome 19?
<jrwren> aurora
<rick_h> ok cool, you can dupe it too then. Yes
<jrwren> and chrome 19 :)
<jrwren> those are my 2 browsers
<rick_h> the ajax call goes out and comes back, but fails to load for some reason. Only gotten it on chrome 19 and FF nightly
<rick_h> same here
<brousch> works for me!
<rick_h> but on my other desktop I have chrome 18 and FF not nightly
<rick_h> and that works
<rick_h> so ti's definitely something changed in the new browsers, but don't know what it is
<rick_h> it's on my todo list for tonight at CHC
<jrwren> whoa, nasty bug. I turn on firebug, hit reload and it works.
<rick_h> because it works in dev mode, so think it's something  with the production/nginx setup, probably the redirect
<rick_h> jrwren: hmm, doesn't here with firebug open
<jrwren> it just started working for m.e
<rick_h> what?! I've not gotten it to work at all
<rick_h> in FF?
<rick_h> or both FF and chrome?
<jrwren> just FF
<rick_h> hmm, let me update today I guess
<jrwren> i think i'm 13a
<jrwren> whatever aurora was yesterday :)
<rick_h> oh hmm, 14.0a1 here
<jrwren> lemme double check
<jrwren> 13.0a2
<jrwren> hehe, update waiting
<rick_h> well anyway, yes there's some browser bug in the dev versions of both FF and chrome that's broken the result loading in bookie and I don't have a fix yet :/
<rick_h> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1103 woot, what some LP folks have been working on is now public
<rick_h> jrwren: http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?can=2&q=121707&colspec=ID%20Pri%20Mstone%20ReleaseBlock%20Area%20Feature%20Status%20Owner%20Summary&id=121707 looks likely
<rick_h> looks like it was fixed yesterday so hopefully next version of dev chrome will have the fix maybe
<rick_h> https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=82964
<jrwren> metal as a service. I don't get it.
<jrwren> wait.
<jrwren> i get it.
<jrwren> its like ec2 provisioning, but not on a VM, on bare metal.
<jrwren> holy crap that is awesome.
<rick_h> right
<rick_h> because something has to get the racks ready to go
<rick_h> not everything can run in VM and even if you do run VMs you need to get the bare metal ready to run VMs
<jrwren> i hate VMs, so :)
<jjesse> automatic bare metal builds have been happening for a long time
<jrwren> yes, but not very well
<jjesse> i've been helping customers w/ them for 6+ years
<jjesse> Dell and HP make great tools
<jrwren> not open source :p
<rick_h> right, but this is on the ubuntu server disk
<jjesse> so if i buy a dell server i have access to their tools which doesn't care about the OS
<jrwren> orly?
<jrwren> i've been out of this line of work for 8yrs. how does this work?
<jrwren> i pxe boot my dell server, then what?
<jjesse> so i can provision the server, configure the DRAC, configure the RAID, build the OS via a scripted OS (windows) kickstart (RHEL) or others
<jrwren> oh DRAC, doesn't that server hardware start at like $5000?
<jjesse> DRAC isn't always needed
<jrwren> mark's post seemed to be talking about $1k 1U type systems.
<rick_h> yea, it's about cheap mass hardware, especially as ARM servers come around
<jjesse> haven't gotten to mark's post yet, but this is totally doable
<jjesse> i bare metal build PCs all day long
<jjesse> and bare metal servers
<jrwren> yes, its doable
<jrwren> but how easy is it.
<jjesse> piece of cake
<jrwren> can i deploy an AMI to one?
<rick_h> jjesse: right, but you provision them in racks from a webui control ui in another room?
<jjesse> i can
<rick_h> and tie it to juju so you can start installs/setups of tasks and such
<rick_h> that's the idea at least
<jjesse> ok so you are tied to Ubuntu only on the process
<rick_h> not tried it out myself as I don't have a rack of hardware to use it against
<jjesse> why not build it platform and OS indepdent
<rick_h> jjesse: yes, the idea is you're using ubuntu servers to bootstrap your racks
<jrwren> i'm less interested in ubuntu and more interested in AMI on bare metal :)
<snap-l> good news at Yahoo: Finding a parking spot should be a lot easier.
<rick_h> lol
<jjesse> rick_h,  but will the build be Ubuntu only or can I build a Windows Server or RHEL server off the process?
<rick_h> jjesse: I think it only speaks ubuntu right now. Like I said, not used it myself. Another LP team has been dev'ing it.
<jrwren> so maybe it is just a super fancy kickstart
<rick_h> The thing though is that you're doing things like provisioning things like hadoop clusters, it's on ubuntu server
<jjesse> so that's my biggest issue w/ all these tools they are Ubuntu only specific as far as i can tell and need to become more OS indepdent
<jjesse> to get greator footprint
<jrwren> they are all open source.
<jrwren> other distros just need to adopt
<rick_h> jcastro_ can probably tell you more since he's Mr Cloud
<jrwren> looks like it was announced a while ago: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-server/2012-January/006041.html
<snap-l> Mr. Cloud. Mr. Cloud. That name again is Mr. Cloud.
<jcastro> Hi2U!
<rick_h> jrwren: well it's been quietly in dev. It's been cranking to get done/ready for 12.04 since it'll be on CD
<rick_h> jcastro_: jjesse wants MAAS to bootstrap RHEL for him...tell him to sshhhhhh :P
<jcastro> jrwren, right so when you type in "juju deploy mysql" instead of ec2 instances a server gets turned on in your datacenter and does all that kind of stuff
<jrwren> i want it to boostrap windows
<rick_h> double sssshhhhh
<jrwren> nad sql server
<jrwren> and iis
<jcastro> http://www.windowsazure.com/en-us/
<jcastro> there you go dude
<jjesse> jrwren, that would be great if it did that
<jrwren> and oracle database
<jjesse> i'm serious
<jrwren> i'm serious too.
<jrwren> if you want to suceed those are the features needed
<rick_h> right, but you don't startup/shutdown those things on a weekly basis? The idea is to take up/down frequently and manage that
<rick_h> it's not something you run once
<jcastro> I am misunderstanding what you guys want
<rick_h> man, nothing as depressing as reading the yahoo job cut annoucement, just "we're firing a ton of people and expect to save some cash, the end"
<jcastro> this isn't traditional provisioning, this is cloud-type stuff
<jrwren> i think we just misunderstood what maas was.
<jrwren> lol @ cloud-type stuff
<rick_h> jcastro_: they want kickstart stuff
<jcastro> oh, well you have that already don't you?
<snap-l> rick_h: You can read it as "throwing off weight so we don't burn up quite as bad on re-entry"
<rick_h> snap-l: lol
<jrwren> zookeeper, orchestera, i need a glossary
<rick_h> jrwren: I'm with you on that part
<jcastro> you don't care about zookeeper directly
<snap-l> I eagerly await lion tamer, railway-station, and dominatrix
<jcastro> it's just the thing juju uses to keep things synced
<jcastro> and orchestra is basically now MaaS
<snap-l> This is almost as bad as naming your servers after silent film comedy troupes
<jrwren> integrates with cobbler too.
<jjesse> i just want a product that can build bare metal no matter what OS
<jrwren> or does it replace cobbler?
<snap-l> What happens when hardy gets decommissioned.
<jjesse> and i can get that from the server vendors
<snap-l> or laurel.
<jrwren> jjesse: this is not really JUST bare metal build though, this does EVERYTHING post bare metal too. so that in the end your services are all up.
<jjesse> a lot of this stuff you can do already, especially the MS stuff + powershell
<jjesse> i can do a bare metal build of an exchange server + install exchange if i want to
<jrwren> i've not seen it in MS lang.
<jjesse> for example
<snap-l> jjesse: You could do some of this stuff with kickstart + chef too
<jjesse> agreee
<jrwren> well dam, you are bad ass
<jjesse> jrwren, it would take me a bit but MS has spent a ton of time on configuring things w/ PowerShell
<snap-l> or puppet, or any remote SSH tool, as long as you have the keys on the remote system.
<jrwren> you can get $$$ doing exchange deploys
<snap-l> jrwren: Why do you think they ship jjesse all over the place.
<snap-l> jjesse = serious badass.
<jrwren> i don't really know the guy.
<snap-l> He contributes to the Ubuntu Book.
<jjesse> while they are not OS there are a ton of tools that are built to do these bare metal deployments
<jrwren> but the point is not "anyone can do that" the point is that maas is already done it for you
<jjesse> and a lot of work has been done on the Windows side by MS
<snap-l> http://www.amazon.com/Official-Ubuntu-Book-Benjamin-Mako/dp/0132435942
<jjesse> here's my frustration is that it seems there si too much "not invented by us" going on instead of working w/ established tools/vendors
<jrwren> kinda sounds like it takes cobbler to the next level
<jcastro> yeah basically
<snap-l> jjesse: Because it's easier to sell a package than a toolkit
<jjesse> snap-l,  i understand but imagine how much wider Ubuntu would be used if it integrate w/ the existing system management vendors instead of focusing on their own product (landscape)
<jrwren> maybe.
<snap-l> jjesse: No argument here, but we've seen how rapidly things change
<jrwren> but a lot of us use nothing righ tnow
<snap-l> integrating something, and having it change then causes as much headache
<jrwren> and don't even know about existing things.
<snap-l> Most of my work at SF.net was in writing scripts to make things happen for our home-built deployment system.
<snap-l> We used something like puppet in the past, but it wasn't what we were looking fo
<snap-l> r
<snap-l> I can only imagine how much more painful that might have been with a vendor-provided solution
<jrwren> why the virsh stuff? I thought this was bare metal. https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~maas-maintainers/maas/trunk/view/head:/docs/juju-quick-start.rst
<jrwren> did they reuse the virsh API for managing bare servers?
<rick_h> snap-l: ok, here you go http://alestic.com/2012/04/aws-s3-torrent
<rick_h> snap-l: OMC episodes torrentable from s3 seeds, that's sweet
<jrwren> whoa?
<jrwren> holy crap.
<jrwren> s3 just supports torrent seeding like that.
<jrwren> that is awesome.
<snap-l> rick_h: Oh, nice. :)
<rick_h> snap-l: yea, not perfect but kind of a neat idae
<rick_h> idea that is
<krondor> argh meetings when I want in on this cloud convo :)  back in a bit
<snap-l> Apparently I got in to Ting at the right time. Samsung Galaxy S II is now $500 list
<snap-l> last night it was $465.
<rick_h> snap-l: cool?}
<snap-l> yeah, cool
<snap-l> I ordered it last night
<rick_h> ah ok, didn't realize you had ordered
<greg-g> snap-l: you're the reason the demand went up, thus the price
<greg-g> jerk
<snap-l> greg-g: Heh
<snap-l> That and I used the TWIG code
<snap-l> Of course now I have to wait a while for the phone to show up
<krondor> jjesse:  juju deploy mysql && juju deploy moodle && juju add-relation mysql moodle && juju expose moodle, that's the hard part about just kickstart + vendor build tools.. how do you provision services on things that easy.
<krondor> that's also the part that is hard to write distro/os agnostic (the service build scripts)
 * krondor late to the discussion and oversimplifying (config.yaml directives missing)
<greg-g> who wants to build their own linux distro... as a game? http://lunduke.com/?page_id=2646
<snap-l> Saw that
<krondor> I thought that's what I was doing when I did LFS and Gentoo
<snap-l> It looks... um... not that great. :)
<jjesse> krondor, i understand the beauty of juju however building a bare metal is not brand new
<jjesse> there are other tools that could be used or the engineer time could be spent improving those
<jjesse> but yet there is the we need to invent it ourself
<krondor> jjesse:  no but when I see maas I don't think it's just the OS build, I think it's the adding it to the pool for service deploy piece
<jjesse> i understand the add service point of view but from my understanding its starting from bare metal and building theservices
<jjesse> you could tie existing bare metal build tools + juju on top of it
<krondor> yeah I can see that, it is very ubuntu-ey and probably not approachable by other distros
<jjesse> just like Landscape or other products
<jjesse> from a systems management point of view
<krondor> even the service piece might be surmountable if you can abstract things far enough (package_install apache2 versus yum/apt/zypper/msiexec)
<krondor> I'm just excited to see the charms deployable without needing all of openstack or costs for ec2
<jjesse> i agree thats way cool
<jjesse> however i'm a bit disappointed that yet again it seems a very ubuntu specific item and not necessarily something other OSes could/would use
<rick_h> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9c6W4CCU9M4http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9c6W4CCU9M4
<snap-l> jjesse: I'm sure Canonical would be thrilled if others followed their pied piper.
<rick_h> let the raving begin
<snap-l> I would totally love augmented reality
<jjesse> snap-l,  instead of working w/ pied pipers that might exist already?
<snap-l> jjesse: Part of developer hubris is that you are the best pied piper out there. :)
<_stink_> mmm pie.
<rick_h> ala-mode!
<greg-g> pie? PIE?! where?!
 * waldo323 gives greg-g some pi
<greg-g> how much of it?
<snap-l> as many significant digits as you can handle
<greg-g> ALL OF THEM!
<greg-g> (the only request you can't comply with)
<brousch> sure he can. it's just gonna take a while
<brousch> like, the rest of your life
<greg-g> nope, it would be even longer than that
<greg-g> though, I guess, that's all i can handle....
<brousch> well that's your fault
<rick_h> 634354
<greg-g> so, rick_h , you've been doing this every now and then, sending 6 digit numbers to the channel, are you messing up with your LP Bug number pasting?
<brousch> greg-g: he covered it earlier ;)
<greg-g> oh
<greg-g> dangit
<greg-g> where?
<rick_h> so I've realized I end up placing my finger on the side of my laptop sometimes
<brousch> 9:35am MI time
<rick_h> greg-g: have this yubikey usb thing that you touch for 2-factor auth for work
<greg-g> ahhh
<rick_h> so I keep bumping it and it dumps those numbers out as if I'm trying to log into something
<rick_h> tried all three usb ports on the laptop, but keep bumping it on accident
<brousch> i'm collecting them to hack his system
<greg-g> brousch: good call
<rick_h> yea, brousch wants to take over all my bugs
<rick_h> I tried to just give them to him, but he'd prefer I get credit when he hacks my account and fixes them all
<brousch> i'll just mark them all as WON'T FIX
<rick_h> works for me
<rick_h> 559014
<greg-g> :)
<rick_h> bah, see I pick up the laptop and bump it. oh well
<greg-g> for you task management geeks out there (*cough* snap-l *cough*): http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2007/10/26.html
<rick_h>  going old school? 2007?
<greg-g> taskwarrior is going to implement tools so you can do that stuff
<greg-g> rick_h: it was just the url that the lead dev of taskwarrior sent in channel
<rick_h> ah, gotcha
<greg-g> anyone have a Thinkpad x200s compat battery they want to sell me that isn't crap?
<greg-g> this one (9 cell) is getting like 2 hours :(
<rick_h> sorry, <3 my 9cell x200 battery
<rick_h> watch the outlet, that's where I get mine and usually around $40 vs the super $$
<rick_h> nothing on there currently for xseries
<greg-g> yeah, from Lenovo its like $150
<rick_h> yea, I've gotten my last 3 spare batteries by watching the outlet nad MUCH cheaper
<rick_h> and they've all been good
 * greg-g nods
<greg-g> well, don't get the next one, leave it for me! ;)
<rick_h> heh
<greg-g> whoa, neat, the app tabs in Fx 13 scale smaller as needed
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-04-05
<rick_h> jrwren: pushed an update to bookie to fix that stupid chrome/FF bug issue
<rick_h> morning
<brousch> oh this is lovely
<brousch> someone else's photos just showed up in my dropbox
<rick_h> oops
<brousch> looks like someone trying filters on their webcam
<brousch> no exif data
<brousch> hm
<brousch> these pictures have the same date/time format as my phone, but they are dated 1 day before i bought it
<rick_h> hah, someone took pics on your phone you didn't realize :P
<brousch> before i bought it
<brousch> my son was playing with the phone at the time of the upload, but obviously not at the time the photos were taken
<rick_h> well dropbox now has the auto photo upload from your phone
<brousch> i can't find them anywhere on my phone
<brousch> i use the autoupload. that's where the pictures came in
<brousch> but i didn't take these pictures
<rick_h> http://www.tomscott.com/glasses/
<brousch> i'm going to lansing tonight to learn more about git
<rick_h> very cool, good thing to know
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h> party
<rick_h> so I'm a bad employee, I just found out LP has sprint org stuff, never ever noticed/realized it.
<rick_h> sad when I work on something and just don't even know swaths of features
<brousch> big projects are like that
<brousch> bug companies
<brousch> b ig
<jrwren> rick_h: thanks for the bookie fix. imma go look on github to see the diff
<rick_h> jrwren: just made sure I don't end the api call in / so that the nginx 301 redirect doesn't kick in.
<rick_h> it's a browser bug, but fortunately I can avoid the 301
<snap-l> rick_h: I know the feeling well
<snap-l> Had lots of "we do that?" learning
<ColonelPanic001> heh
<ColonelPanic001> I don't think I've been on launchpad much in ages.
 * ColonelPanic001 goes to have a look
<ColonelPanic001> I forgot, I actually have a project on ther, from 2009
<jrwren> rick_h: how long have you worked there now?
<rick_h> jrwren: nov
<jrwren> can't know it all in 5 months :)
<rick_h> yea, definitely
<ColonelPanic001> when he hits 6, though..
<snap-l> Requested 12.04 CDs
<rick_h> woot
<snap-l> Might even have them at Penguicon
<snap-l> which would be awesome
<snap-l> Also, Kubuntu CDs aren't in this pack
<rick_h> really? /me goes to dbl check actual release day
<snap-l> 26/4/2012
<snap-l> They're accepting pre-orders, which leads me to believe they're being mastered RSN
<brousch> blue-headed stepchild
<snap-l> brousch: That reminds me....
<brousch> now the disowned blue-head step-child
 * snap-l has a devious plan to ship all of the rest of the 11.10 CDs to brousch
 * snap-l loves Priority Mail Fat Rate.
<brousch> i think i handed out 2 so far
<brousch> i should have hidden the box in your house when i was there
<snap-l> Yeah, CDs don't really go over very well
<snap-l> brousch: I still have the two boxes from the release party in my living room
<snap-l> I should put them in the kitchen
<snap-l> or something like that
<snap-l> Get rid of the things.
<brousch> it feels wasteful
<brousch> like i should recycle them or something
<brousch> maybe i can turn them into an artprize entry
<snap-l> If anyone has some ideas, I'm all for it
<snap-l> I'll pay shipping.
<jrwren> i keep meaning to upgrade.
<brousch> ubuntu-skeetshooting-us-mi
<snap-l> brousch: Noooooooooo
<rick_h> downloaded latest iso today plan is to reinstall tomorrow
<rick_h> everyone else is off work tomorrow so might as well restart then
<brousch> hm
<snap-l> Yeah, I have tomorrow off as well
<jrwren> why so many people off tomorrow?
<jjesse> good friday
<jrwren> auto holiday for the god lovers?
<jrwren> wow, you are an optimist. how do you know it will be good?
<jjesse> my calendar says it will be good friday
<jjesse> so no iea
<jjesse> idea
<jrwren> sweet!
<jrwren> must NOT be a demotivational calendar
<jrwren> so optimistic
 * snap-l rolls his eyes.
<snap-l> http://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/rubzn/how_my_apple_hate_quite_literally_burned_me/
 * rick_h just keeps quiet...
<snap-l> rick_h: macs rule. ;)
<rick_h> I'm going to call total bullshit on the whole story
<rick_h> you feel anxiety up to a purchase, but if you got the thing home and it worked it goes away pretty quick.
<rick_h> trust me, I've been there
<rick_h> so I don't buy the start of the story at all, and the follow up that "I bought a thing that I regret buying..."
<rick_h>  oh freaking well, you bought a bad bit of hardware, wtf were you doing buying a laptop from samsung...
<rick_h> the whole story stinks from start to finish
<snap-l> rick_h: Funny thing is the Macbook Pro that I had was also a serious nut-warmer
<snap-l> Even through the laptop desk
<snap-l> Haven't had the same problem with the X120e
<jrwren> i LOVE that story.
<rick_h> jrwren: would, it's got a person who loves windows more than OSX and Ubuntu, loves mac hardware...it's too good to be true I tell you :P
<snap-l> greg-g: http://thereifixedit.failblog.org/2012/04/05/white-trash-repairs-bicycle-lanes-in-bulgaria/
<jrwren> the thing i found amusing is that the quiet mac book airs don't exist anymore.
<jrwren> he said he has a 2010.
<jrwren> well. my 2010 DID make noise when i pushed it hard.
<jrwren> and now I have a 2011 air and it definitely spins up and pushes air more than the 2010 model.
<jrwren> i don't htink ivybridge will change this at all.
<snap-l> Craig's law: The more bits you push, the more heat you'll generate
<jrwren> surely you know that isn't true.
<jrwren> but I do like your law.
<snap-l> Craig's corallary: I like pie
<jrwren> mmm... pie
<jrwren> Because Facebook's entire code base is compiled down to a single binary executable, the company's deployment process is quite different from what you'd normally expect in a PHP environment. Rossi told me that the binary, which represents the entire Facebook application, is approximately 1.5GB in size.
<jrwren> !!!
<rick_h> heh, well makes it easier to load that into memory vs a bunch of php scripts :)
<ColonelPanic001> hah
<ColonelPanic001> Didn't know that, interesting
<jrwren> http://arstechnica.com/business/news/2012/04/exclusive-a-behind-the-scenes-look-at-facebook-release-engineering.ars?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+arstechnica%2Findex+%28Ars+Technica+-+Featured+Content%29
<greg-g> snap-l: hilarious
<ColonelPanic001> I was just going to ask
<jrwren> i don't know enough about the linux and gnu linker loader to know wtf its going ot do with 1.5GB exec
<jrwren> i wonder if it is statically linked.
<jrwren> i wonder if it even uses a webserver or if that includes the web server.
<rick_h> well create a memdisk with one file in it :)
<jrwren> that would be foolish.
<jrwren> then you aren't letting the vmemsys do what it is meant to do.
<snap-l> Nice thing is instead of looking at 1,000 files to see where a change is, you can do one sha1sum to tell which server is out of sync
<snap-l> That's brilliant
<snap-l> I eagerly await our newfound compiled executable memes
<snap-l> Because FACEBOOK
<rick_h> come on, you know that's how google does it too :P
<jrwren> lol
<jrwren> "THIS IS HOW YOU SCALE! ONE GIANT EXECUTABLE!"
<snap-l> $5 says they don't strip out debugging. ;)
<jrwren> lol.
<jrwren> or use -O5.
<jrwren> -O0 plz.
<jrwren> -Wnone too
<jrwren> but that might make sense given the HipHop layer
<snap-l> OMG! OUR 1.5GB EXECUTABLE IS NOW 600K AFTER WE RAN STRIP
<greg-g> I hate it when you, while trying to fall asleep, craft a brilliant 140 character thought that condenses such an important issue so that everyone can understand it easily plannning on sending it out via the microblags the next morning, but then, you fall asleep, and forget everything.
<jrwren> lol @ 600k
<rick_h> greg-g: I started keeing a notepad by my bed because I kept having bookie ideas right before sleep, drove me nuts
<rick_h> it's a win, but it's embarrassing when it wakes up the wife while I fumble to take a note
<greg-g> rick_h: yeah, unfortunately my falling asleep time now includes a 3.5 month old in nest of my left arm. :)
<rick_h> greg-g: hmm, android voice dictation? I don't keep my phone in my bedroom, but maybe you do?
<jrwren> i put a notepad at my bedside, and all thoughts worth writing immediately stopped
<snap-l> jrwren: hah
<snap-l> I have a notepad that I leave by the bed, but no pen.
<snap-l> and now I dust a notepad.
<jrwren> rick_h: does your pastebin have a post limit?
<snap-l> I really need to come up with some way to exclude the 100 baby einstein songs from ever being played on my squeezebox player
<snap-l> ever
<jrwren> i just tried posting about 3.5k and it gives 500
<jrwren> snap-l: delete the files.
<snap-l> jrwren: Ubuntu One
<rick_h> jrwren: probably
<snap-l> so if I delete them, at some point they will returl
<snap-l> return
<rick_h> jrwren: whatever the nginx default is I'd imagine
<snap-l> GOt them for my bro-in-law
<rick_h> jrwren: yea, I need to update the version and such there sometime. It's hack-hosted, the captchas don't work, etc
<jrwren> no worries, just curious
<snap-l> rick_h: We rely on that service
<snap-l> mostly because it means we don't have to install our own. ;)
<rick_h> snap-l: in that case I better get it off the sqlite db and setup multiple backends with failover :P
<snap-l> and compile the code too
<snap-l> I want it to load in less than .2ms
<snap-l> chop chop
<brousch> i will set up a competing pastebin running on django
<brousch> that will prompt him to action
<rick_h> lol
<snap-l> Nah, Ruby on Rails will do it
<rick_h> everyone knows django isn't good for anything! not even a pastebin!
<brousch> it is kind of a messy add-on
<snap-l> It's good for being a podunk newspaper site
<snap-l> and we all know newspapers are dying anyway
<rick_h> ask waldo, he was having fun with "django apps" last night at CHC
<snap-l> surprised they didn't use Wordpress instead.
<brousch> django apps are simultaneously the best part of django and its biggest problem
<brousch> there's an app for whatever you want, but it always takes some hacking to get it into your site
<brousch> once you've hacked it, then you have to keep hacking it on updates
<jrwren> isn't that what git is for?
<brousch> yes
<brousch> but for something that is supposed to be plug and play, having to resort to forking is not how it should be
<jrwren> oh, they are supposed to plug and play?
<jrwren> I didn't know that.
<jrwren> i like forks.
<jrwren> i like forks best when they automerge
<brousch> https://bitbucket.org/jespern/django-piston/descendants
<greg-g> I like forks best when they have tasty food they're bringing to my mouth
<rick_h> oh oh oh...finally!!! the tests pass...
 * rick_h does a happy dance...
<jrwren> i'mma laugh when you get a 500 :p
<jrwren> tests pass... why don't it work?
<rick_h> because it's only the second of the 4 sets of tests I broke...
<rick_h> !@$#@$#@ doctests...die die die!!!!
<jrwren> ouch
<rick_h> all the layers of security hate me since I want to access email addressses
<brousch> what is the pyramid equivalent of a django add-on app?
<rick_h> depends
<brousch> the diapers?
<rick_h> a tween for some thing, a library for others, another wsgi app
<brousch> are they as prone to getting forked?
<jrwren> i'd have said pyramid doesn't have an equiv
<rick_h> not currently
<rick_h> jrwren: well the idea is adding functionality to your app via someone else's code
<rick_h> jrwren: so you can do that in generally 4 ways
<brousch> because pyramid has 10% of django's user base or because they are better designed?
<brousch> i don't think flask plugins have the same issue
<rick_h> another wsgi layer, a tween, importing a lib and adding to your app's config, or just something you can import/use
<rick_h> but yea, none of them are really the same as the django ap
<rick_h> app
<brousch> lib sounds closest
<rick_h> not really because a lib will have issues with migratoins/etc while django apps have that idea built in I think
<rick_h> at least db access/tools
<jrwren>  the db access is just django model.
<jrwren> or it could opt for other.
<jrwren> and django still has no default migration lib
<rick_h> jrwren: yea, I guess I mean syncdb
<jrwren> ah, right.
<jrwren> that is true.
<jrwren> and you can even tie into django commands
<jrwren> to extend manage.py
<rick_h> right
<brousch> i haven't looked at south yet
<rick_h> south is pretty much the one true migration for django
<brousch> no, there is another
<brousch> nash vegas
<brousch> http://nashvegas.readthedocs.org/en/latest/
<rick_h> well, inside canonical all the django apps are south users
<brousch> it is the leader
<snap-l> Anyone else think the JOBS bill is going to usher in another internet bubble?
<rick_h> haven't looked...
<rick_h> figure I've got a job, and if I lose it I'll get another... :)
<snap-l> It's not for employment
<rick_h> ah, then I'm doubly stupid about it
<snap-l> It's for investing without being on the stock market.
<snap-l> http://www.buzzmachine.com/2012/04/05/the-importance-of-jobs/
 * jrwren notes to try out south
<dzho> http://zgp.org/~dmarti/freedom/dude-were-winning/
<dzho> dmarti asks a fair point
<dzho> er, a fair question
<snap-l> Yeah, I don't necessarily think the SEC is better at selecting companies for major investment
<dzho> not that.  the 419 point
<jrwren> I don't think that is the SECs job.
<snap-l> but I regard investors as fools
<snap-l> and fools and their money can soon be parted.
<snap-l> Note: I think kickstarter is great
<jrwren> I'd take offense, but I already know that you ragard me a fool, so its not new to be offended by.
<jrwren> its jsut another reason :p
<snap-l> and maybe this will get some awesome companies funded
<snap-l> jrwren: perhaps I need to rephrase
<snap-l> internet investing
<jrwren> what does that mean?
<jrwren> like investing only in "net" companies?
<dzho> snap-l: you regard anyone who isn't self-employed but has a 401K to be a fool?  Or you think they should sock their tax-exempt stuff away in cash?  or  . . . .?
<jrwren> that is sooo... mid 90s
<snap-l> companies like Groupon who have no visible means of profit, outside of a glorified ponzi scheme.
<dzho> not that I disagree, it's just a pretty broad brush
<jrwren> 401ks are a scam.
<snap-l> jrwren: people who look to make a quick buck off of some smart kids
<jrwren> i regard 401k-only investors as fools :(
<snap-l> jrwren: I'm a fool, then
<jrwren> no investments outside of your 401k?
<snap-l> I also have an IRA, which is comprised of my 401K rollovers
<jrwren> do you contribute a lot to 401k or just the minimum to get employer match?
<snap-l> I contribute my max
<jrwren> zomg, stop!
<jrwren> you are killing yourself.
<jrwren> well, you are hurting yourself.
<dzho> you will help yourself by paying more tax!
<snap-l> jrwren: What would you recommend instead?
<dzho> here it goes
<jrwren> take some of that and invest in a non-tax deferred acct.
<jrwren> here is why:
<jrwren> when you withdrawl from your 401k and ira it gets taxed AS WAGES and not as investment income
<jrwren> that means it is in the 35%+ rate
<jrwren> and not teh low 18% like romney paid on his investment earnings.
<jrwren> you'd have to run the numbers to see what your rates will be
<jrwren> but its likely if you end up with large withdrawls that you'll be in a much higher tax bracket than you need to be.
<dzho> assuming you withdraw it when you are in the 35% bracket
<jrwren> right.
<jrwren> like i said, run thenumbers.
<mydogsnameisrudy> you pay 20% when you draw your 401
<dzho> run the future numbers.
<snap-l> What if it's a roth IRA?
<jrwren> but I sure plan on retiring with enough $$$ that I can have large withdrawls
<dzho> nice trick, how do I do that?
<dzho> dear intarwebs, what will my tax rate be in 20 years?
<jrwren> its called planning
<dzho> damn, dude, we don't even know what the tax code is going to say next year.
<jrwren> so... just throwing some infor out there for you to consider.
<jrwren> this was big news to me.
<jrwren> it did change some decisions I made
<jrwren> so I'm sharing
<mydogsnameisrudy> if you draw early its 10% more
<jrwren> so ignore my advice.
<greg-g> jrwren: :)
<dzho> snap-l: yeah, roth from what I understand has already been taxed, so . . .
<jrwren> like I said " take some of that and invest in a non-tax deferred acct."   <--- i retract thsi advice.
<snap-l> jrwren: Considering how we're screwing the baby boomers out of their retirement because of economic reasons, I'll be surprised if I'm not scraping for berries and twigs when I'm retired.
<jrwren> i don't want to give advise.
<greg-g> jrwren: haha!
<snap-l> jrwren: IANAFP
<dzho> are we screwing them, or have they screwed us?
<greg-g> dzho: ding ding ding
<dzho> see the recent Esquire article on that question
<jrwren> maybe tehy screwed tehmselves
<greg-g> everyone is screwing everyone, <insert lewd joke here>
<dzho> or maybe themselves *and* the rest of us!
<dzho> haha
<dzho> yes, he went there
<jrwren> so I don't grok the JOBS bill.
<snap-l> All I know is I had everything I could do to not laugh in a lady's face when I was younger. She claimed that Soc Security would be around for my retirement.
<jrwren> does it change the regulations for being a qualified investor.
<dzho> http://www.esquire.com/features/young-people-in-the-recession-0412-3
<jrwren> snap-l: it will if you retire next year :p
<dzho> jrwren: I think it puts a higher limit as to what people can invest without being a qualified investor
<snap-l> jrwren: not bloody likely
<dzho> or rather, someone collecting that investment can have more non-qualified investors without having to go public.  Or . . . something.
<dzho> if only we had the world's information at our fingertips so we could look this up
<greg-g> jrwren: http://www.forbes.com/sites/jjcolao/2012/03/21/jobs-act/ page two has some good issues, too
<brousch> soc sec will be around when we retire. we'll get like $10/wk
<greg-g> yay, enough to buy an ice-cream cone
<jrwren> dzho: my current understanding is that non-qualified investors are entirely inelligible currently.
<jrwren> i do like ice cream cones!
<brousch> greg-g: you will only be able to spend it on healthy food
<jrwren> anyone go to free cone day at B&J ?
<dzho> It feels a little weird, but I trust wikipedia to give me the general lowdown on something like this.
<jrwren> greg-g: thanks. the shareholder limit on privately held is facinating.
<jrwren> zomg, and 10% or up to 10k$ can be invested.
<jrwren> this is HUGE for someone like me.
<greg-g> dzho: good point re WP, is there a good article?
<dzho> Xeno's paradox will be very important here.
<dzho> greg-g: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumpstart_Our_Business_Startups_Act
<greg-g> tx
<greg-g> that's a good low down
<jrwren> this is soo cool.
<jrwren> i gotta figure out where to invest my $10k :)
<brousch> bmark.us
<jrwren> lol, no
<greg-g> jrwren: and thanks to the act, you can just trust the wall st analysts who say XYZ is great (nevermind they have a vested interest, and wouldn't normally be able to say such things before this bill) :)
<jrwren> Caveat emptor
<dzho> does wall street even have to be involved?
<snap-l> At least they're trying to keep Senators from profiting off of the stock market by getting stock tips from congressional testimony.
<dzho> isn't the point that you don't have to go through folks who have figured out how to navigate the regulatory situation?
<dzho> go go Louise Slaughter, on the STOCK Act
<dzho> too bad she just broke her leg
<snap-l> Couldn't believe that it was legal for congress to do the very thing that Martha Stewart went to jail for
<snap-l> Goes to show that those who make the rules don't necessarily follow them
<dzho> makes you wonder what other outrages are perfectly legal for them to do
<dzho> http://www.buffalonews.com/city/capital-connection/washington/article795640.ece
<dzho> also, still need to get more of the original bill into law
<jrwren> i still think it is cool that this bill opens up some things that used to require being  an accredited investor
<dzho> well, this bill being the JOBS Act, coming back to that from our STOCK Act excursion.
<jrwren> yes
<greg-g> dudes! such a great service! http://ismycreditcardstolen.com/
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-04-06
<snap-l> seriously?
<Blazeix> i don't know about you guys, but the "verified secure" with the reflection photoshop filter convinced me fo' sures
<rick_h> hah
<snap-l> They don't use https either
<snap-l> FAIL
<snap-l> http://ismycreditcardstolen.com/check.html?
<snap-l> I typed in all 0s just to see what would happen
<rick_h> bah, backup drive is running out of space...
<snap-l> I lvoe how I have to essentiall agree to Oracle's stupid license every time I upgrade Virtualbox
<rick_h> go gigabit networking!
<rick_h> now if only I could get a usb disk of the beta working I'd be set for reinstall tomorrow
<Blazeix> rick_h: i'm installing the ubuntu beta off of usb right now. you mean getting the iso on a flash drive?
<Blazeix> i just used `dd if=precise-desktop-amd64.iso of=/dev/sdb`
<Blazeix> of course, don't just use "/dev/sdb" :)
<rick_h> Blazeix: ah, I'll hvae to try that then. I've only used the usb-creator bu tit hates me
<rick_h> bah, hard to time with laggy nets
<Blazeix> ok, I give up. I consider myself a fairly competent linux user, but I cannot figure out how to install gtk themes in unity
<Blazeix> i copy the theme to /usr/share/themes/ , but it doesn't show up in ubuntu's 'appearance' settings
<rick_h> anyone have anything bad to say on samsung HD? Seems rated highly of the bunch
<rick_h> Blazeix: probably need some gconf setting
<Blazeix> yikes, really? you're locked into the two themes ubuntu provides?
<Blazeix> well, for certain values of "locked"
<rick_h> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlcMxoErfz8 is a bit crazy but says to drop them in .themes
<Blazeix> oh, you have to install gnome-tweak-tool
<Blazeix> I thought that was a gnome-shell thing only
<rick_h> bah, ok nas ordered...will finally be backup happy hopefully
<Blazeix> ok, 'myunity' is an awesome program for configuring unity.
<Blazeix> still no love for gtk3 themes, but most of them seem broken for 12.04 anyway. but it's beta, so it's expected.
<rick_h> morning
<brousch> there is an ad embedded in a slashdot article in my RSS feed. it says "Earn a bible Degree!"
<snap-l> brousch: Targeted
<rick_h> keep meaning to go back to school
<brousch> it just seems really strange. i mean, how many slashdotters would have an interest in a bible degree?
<snap-l> brousch: I think you might be surprised
<brousch> i can recall a handful of pro-religeon comments on there in the last decade
<brousch> not that i read all of the comments
<brousch> i guess they could get downvoted below my threshold
<snap-l> Note to self: when wife has to go to work, it is best to set the coffeepot the night before when you don't.
<snap-l> brousch: Yo could also have extremely high mental filters for religion
<snap-l> being in the heart of Michigan's Bible Belt.
<snap-l> And don't deny it. Holland has more churches than 7-11s
<brousch> i am quite sensitive to it
<brousch> being an atheist in Michigan's Bible Belt
<brousch> ah, crap. the local star wars guild is going to be at the GR public library tomorrow. i was hoping we could get in without a crowd. apparently they had a segment on the news last night
<brousch> now it will be a zoo
<rick_h> star wars guild?
<snap-l> brousch: context?
<brousch> there are star wars guilds where members have authenitic-looking costumes. they go to parades and events and such
<brousch> they are having an event at the GRPL tomorrow
<snap-l> Ah, OK
<snap-l> Sadly, if you had called it the 501st battalion, I think I might have known
<brousch> heh
<brousch> i forgot the number
<snap-l> http://www.501st.com/about_us.htm
<snap-l> http://www.greatlakesgarrison.com/
<snap-l> Their logo is awesome
<brousch> yeah, that's how i found the event
<brousch> so i kept quiet so it wouldn't draw a crowd
<snap-l> brousch: I'm pretty sure it won't have that big of a crowd
<snap-l> trust me on this
<brousch> they had a star wars night at a hockey game
<brousch> it was busy
<snap-l> That's because it was a hockey game
<brousch> oh, the GRPL is about 200ft from the GR children's museum
<brousch> so that will draw snot-nosed crowds
<jrwren> TIL: http://giagio.com/wiki/moin.cgi/iPhoneEthernetDriver
<jrwren>  TIL: http://www.linuxvirtualserver.org/ is not vserver but more like inverse vserver
<rick_h> heh, interesting
<jrwren> https://gist.github.com/2320652  :[
<brousch> that doesn't look good
<jrwren> my disk failing
<jrwren> i htink its been happening for a yr now :(
<jrwren> maybe longer.
<jrwren> i wonder if i have logs going back that far.
<jrwren> probably not. logrotate delets.
<brousch> what log is that?
<jrwren> syslog
<jrwren> but its from kernel :(
<jrwren> dmesg even
<jrwren> <3 tmux break-pain and jion-pain ftw
<rick_h> pane?
<rick_h> or is it painful?
<brousch> joint pain? there's a salve for that
<jrwren> yes, pane, lol.
<rick_h> wheee, reinstall time...reinstall time...download all those packages
<rick_h> at least now I'm building a makefile from my install docs so the number of commands is getting fewer and fewer
<rick_h> ugh, this 620Kb/s download is not optimal
<jrwren> i was listening to ruby5 today
<jrwren> it occured to me that the asset pipeline is nice and that I'd like a django equiv. anyone know of one?
<jrwren> or if there is a pyramid one, lemme know so I can port to django
<brousch> asset pipeline?
<jrwren> http://guides.rubyonrails.org/asset_pipeline.html
<rick_h> yea, there's a django one
<rick_h> sec, trying to recall, written by jriddel I think
<jrwren> django-pipeline ?
<rick_h> sorry, jezdez https://github.com/jezdez/django_compressor is what I'm thinking of
<rick_h> not completely the same
<jrwren> django-pipeline looks good on 10-sec inspection
<rick_h> cool
<greg-g> snap-l: good choice on archive.org hosting
<jrwren> snap-l: do you like epics?
<jrwren> err..
<jrwren> Epica
<jrwren> http://www.progpowerusa.com/  <-- they are coming to US
<jrwren> but I don't know if I want to go to taht.
<jcastro> rick_h: what you don't have a local proxy to cache your debs?
<jcastro> SUCK
<jrwren> not sure why anyone would ever full reinstall.
<jrwren> upgrade FTW
<jrwren> :)
<jcastro> spend some time helping plumbing developers find bugs and sometimes things just go bad.
<jcastro> but for that I have different "levels" of computers
<rick_h> jcastro: no, I should at some point
<rick_h> jrwren: I consider it cleaning time, get to dump projects I've checked out and not gone with, apps I've tested, etc
<rick_h> 323790
<jrwren> rm -rf does that for me.
<rick_h> jcastro: I do have a local pypi server for my python stuff though :)
<jrwren> or actually... i never do that :)
<jrwren> I have built deb srcs from 5+ yrs ago in my homedir, LOL
<rick_h> and each install my install process gets better and better
<rick_h> yea, I dont care for that
<rick_h> and the couple of times I've tried upgrades...ugh
<rick_h> with the new makefile 80% of the install is a make command away and an hour/two of download/installing
<jcastro> tldr, squid-deb-proxy on one machine, whatever server in your house
<jcastro> squid-deb-proxy-client on all your clients
<jcastro> done, all zeroconffed automatically
<jrwren> *nod*
<rick_h> jcastro: cool, will have to look at that.
<jcastro> http://askubuntu.com/questions/3503/best-way-to-cache-apt-downloads-on-a-lan
<jcastro> easy
<jrwren> i just need squid-deb-proxy-client to be default on install :)
<jcastro> me too. :)
<jcastro> rick_h: here's my set up: https://plus.google.com/photos/116015965439782966698/albums/5151703723278681249/5719925524677009570
<rick_h> heh, just a few machines eh?
<jcastro> I suspect you're similar
<rick_h> jcastro: you have a nas?
<jcastro> not in the pic
<rick_h> jcastro: meh, down to desktop, laptop, netbook 'server' and soon to be nas
<jcastro> but yeah, 6tb ubuntu server w/NFS/SMB
<dzho> jcastro: so you work standing at the "everyday" stations?
<rick_h> the nas conversation at work finally got me to order one
<jrwren> i should take a pic of my setup.
<jrwren> cuz its so tiny
<jcastro> dzho: I just took down the standing thing actually
<dzho> huh
<jcastro> it was causing me mild sciatica
<jcastro> which I am finishing up physical therapy for today
<jrwren> ?
<jcastro> basically I went full time standing too early
<rick_h> jcastro: motorized ftw
<dzho> on my list of very low priority things would be to get some sort of spring-loaded adjustable workstand
<jrwren> i miss my standing desk.
<rick_h> I go back/forth twice a day
<jcastro> and my beer belly + lack of muscles in back = bummer
<jrwren> new job is all sitting
<rick_h> and can do more/less as I feel that day
<jcastro> yeah, I need a motorized one
<jrwren> but we do have treadmill workstations
<dzho> jcastro: too early, as in, you need to lose some weight and gain some strength first?
<dzho> or, too young?
<rick_h> it takes time to adjust
 * dzho scratches his head
<rick_h> when I started I'd only do 2hrs standing a day
<rick_h> and worked up to 50/50 split
<jcastro> dzho: ^^^ that
 * dzho reads with interest
<jcastro> basically, I should have had more part time standing
<jcastro> as opposed to "oh I think I'll start off with my 12 hour days standing up."
<dzho> ah
<jcastro> "lol why is my back messed up!?!?"
<rick_h> jcastro: I started out hitting the tall tables at the coffee shop to start
<rick_h> doing an hour there
<jcastro> indeed
<dzho> this is giving me an idea
<jrwren> i adjusted pretty quick.
<jrwren> first 2 weeks my legs and feet were TIRED
<dzho> there's a coffee place across the quad that has a high counter
<jrwren> but after taht I was fine.
<jcastro> jrwren: yeah I think if I would have done more ramp up I would have been fine
<jcastro> I plan on going back to it
<jcastro> just going to chill for a bit on my butt for a while though
 * dzho wonders about getting a floor mat that could be rolled up, a little like you see folks carrying around their yoga mats
<dzho> my current changearound is to use the kneeling chair a little bit
<snap-l> greg-g: Thanks. I think it's going to work out
<snap-l> jrwren: Haven't listened to a lot of Epica.
<snap-l> I should really get a NAS
<snap-l> though my desktop is pretty much my NAS
<rick_h> yea, I kept putting it off, but my external usb disks are runningout of space, had to do some cleaning up to do my backup for this fresh install
<rick_h> so figured I either need to get bigger disks or break down and NAS it up
<rick_h> and if I do the NAS it supports some better auto backup stuff
 * brousch is a little afraid of how far rick_h will take his NAS
<rick_h> well it does have a web server in it, so think I'll work on pushing my rst docs to it in html form :)
<rick_h> but I'm proud, I didn't get the 4 disk super NAS I originally was looking at
<rick_h> could buy a laptop for as much as the things run
<snap-l> rick_h: I'm surprised you weren't getting a Drobo. ;)
<rick_h> drobos suck
<rick_h> http://www.amazon.com/Qnap-Network-Storage-Server-TS-419PII-US/dp/B005PP8J76/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1333738721&sr=8-5
<rick_h> is what I originally wanted
<rick_h> http://www.amazon.com/Synology-DiskStation-Diskless-Attached-DS411J/dp/B0049MPQGS/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1333738713&sr=8-2 was tempting
 * snap-l wold hate to be in the same room with rick_h  and Mac Break Weekly hosts.
<rick_h> http://www.amazon.com/Synology-DiskStation-Diskless-Network-Attached/dp/B005YW7OLM/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1333738767&sr=1-1 I settled for
<rick_h> why is this? what does mac break weekly folks say?
<snap-l> They like their Drobos, they love their macs.
<snap-l> It's like the Anti-rick_h
<rick_h> well they're idiots. Lots of documented issues with the drobo special file system. Performance goes to shit, lose data...I don't know how they're still in business
<rick_h> get a box with a real FS and real raid
<brousch> i was expecting a full rack full of disks and a 24 hour UPS
<rick_h> brousch: yea, no so much
<rick_h> want osmehting I can put on the rack shelf and be small/not deal with
<brousch> do it right!
 * snap-l is surprised you didn't build one from scratch
<brousch> what's the utility to find the fastest repo mirror?
<rick_h> snap-l: I've done that before, it's why I have that desktop. I was setting up 4 sata disks in software raid
<rick_h> but doing software upgades, etc main it a pain to maintain
<rick_h> that and issues getting boot right with 6 sata devices and moving /dev/sdX
<rick_h> but really, search drobo file corruption and enjoy your afternoon
<jcastro> brousch: http://askubuntu.com/questions/39922/how-do-you-select-the-fastest-mirror-from-the-command-line
<jcastro> brousch: for the desktop it's in the software sources thing
<jcastro> rick_h: I want that nice synology or qnap next
<brousch> jcastro: thanks. it's a question on the GRLUG mailing list
<jcastro> the drobos fail at pretty common tasks, they suck
<jcastro> brousch: add this one then: http://askubuntu.com/questions/37753/how-can-i-get-apt-to-use-a-mirror-close-to-me
<greg-g> yeah, roommate has a drobo, it sucks
<greg-g> so. slow.
<jcastro> you can't even like, stream a movie on it over gigabit
<jcastro> it's like, half the reason for getting a NAS
<snap-l> Yeah, actually I wouldn't get a Drobo
<snap-l> I was just kidding
<jrwren> snap-l: you should not get a NAS
<jrwren> certainly not a Qnap
<jrwren> synology is OK
<jrwren> Drobos are absolute shit.
<jrwren> Drobos can't even push 1Gbit. they are useless for any real work.
<jrwren> drobo is still in business because of lots of advertising :)
 * jrwren finishes reading backlog before repeating everything rick_h says
<greg-g> jrwren: almost too late
<jrwren> disagree with rich_h about maintenance though.
<jrwren> sudo apt-get install unattended-upgrades
<jrwren> done
<greg-g> do any of those nas's allow you to add on external storage via usb/sata?
<greg-g> it isn't apparent via amazon
<rick_h> greg-g: yes, the synology has usb and esata out I think
 * greg-g is on call, sorry for lazyirc
<snap-l> lazy IRC
<jrwren> I like to run my own linux on my homebuilt nas for the same reason I like to run linux on my server and not buy some server appliance: at some point I'm going to want to do something with it that the vendor does not support or enable.
<rick_h> yea, but I want to split up my backups/critical stuff vs real server stuff. I've got servers for running that
<greg-g> but real servers on the same lan?
<rick_h> well I've got my desktop and my netbook running server stuff
<rick_h> so my netbook is my pypi cache, desktop runs a couple of things
<rick_h> but I've got 2 ec2 servers that bookie and such runs on that I setup real server things
<rick_h> so really, I just want a better/more powerful usb storage and the nas fits that better
<rick_h> though I should just shutdown and give away the netbook
<jrwren> yup
<jrwren> i run everything on 1 server.
<jrwren> but I gess I'm ghetto like that
<jrwren> date +%s
<jrwren> we are at 13337..... seconds for a while longer
<greg-g> nice
<brousch> ok, this is col http://dl.dropbox.com/u/40496552/awwation-intro.svg#19
<greg-g> not working here
<brousch> get a real browser
<jrwren> how can I zoom out?
<jrwren> oh, enable script
<greg-g> brousch: Fx 13 not good enough for you?
<brousch> Chrome is the only real browser
<greg-g> fuck that
<jrwren> i'm on fx13, it worked perfectly
<greg-g> sorry, I reserve my comments on Chrome since I know many of you in here are Chrome fanbois
<greg-g> jrwren: huh, werid
<jrwren> 13.0a2 (2012-04-05)
<greg-g> must just be me :)
<greg-g> 13.0a2 (2012-03-30)
<greg-g> I guess I'm 6 days behind
<jrwren> i don't think that is the reason
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> me neither
<brousch> :P
<brousch> i'm really neutral on FF or Chrome. i use chrome more frequently because i have more reliable bookmark sync on it
<jrwren> FF > Chrome because it does not ship with flash
<jcastro> Chrome here, but trying to come back to FF due to chrome being buggier for me lately
<greg-g> also, from what Tom Calloway (at RH/Fedora) says Chromium also ships with crap tons of modified libraries in the tarball
<greg-g> he hates "packagin" it
<jcastro> Well, I said Chrome not Chromium. :)
<jcastro> "Chromium" isn't really an end product
<jcastro> they don't release tarballs or anything like that
<greg-g> what is the diff, really, between chrome/chromium?
<jcastro> people just grab the branch the last stable chrome released from
<jrwren> wtf, osx lion support dyndns OOTB. that is werid
<jcastro> http://askubuntu.com/questions/6253/whats-the-difference-between-google-chrome-and-or-chromium-what-are-the-advant
<jcastro> greg-g: I hope that's enough detail for you, it's one of my awesomest answers
<jrwren> modified libraries?
<jrwren> as in THEIR version of libpng? etc?
<greg-g> jrwren: well, with patchs not sent/incorporated upstream, yeah
<greg-g> not all libraries, but some aparently
<jrwren> right.
<jrwren> jcastro: why aren't you in the list? http://askubuntu.com/users ?
<jrwren> you'd be #2
<jcastro> jrwren: click on "All"
<jrwren> oh nevermind. I was on WEEK instad of ALL
<jcastro> I am 7th now, but that's because I usually bounty most of my rep
<greg-g> he is, search for "jorge"
<greg-g> -607
<jcastro> heh
<jrwren> oh i was on YEAR
<jcastro> it's harder to give it away than to earn it surprisingly
<jcastro> but I dominate on badges
<jcastro> 30 gold baby
<jjesse> how much time a day do you spend there?
<jcastro> only  like 95 less than jon skeet
<jcastro> jjesse: not as much anymore, but most of last cycle, an hour before work, most of lunch, and an hour after work
<jcastro> + whenever jill worked late, so ..... a lot.
<jjesse> wow
<jrwren> you ARE the Jon Skeet of askubuntu :)
<jcastro> skeet is not human
<jcastro> he's geometrically more productive
<jrwren> yes
<jjesse> sorry dumb question who is jon skeet?
<jrwren> although I suggest that skeet's expertise is thinner.
<jrwren> C# is a much smaller topic than all of ubuntu
<jrwren> even C# and .NET is a much smaller subject than everything that could come up on askubuntu
<jrwren> jjesse: jon skeet is the stackoverflow user with the highest rep.
<jrwren> he is also author of one of the best C# books out there.
<jcastro> most of my stuff comes from edits though
<jcastro> I don't earn rep for answers that much compared to most.
<jcastro> I just usually keep improving an answer over time until it's decent
<jcastro> like that Chrome one was done over time, etc.
<jjesse> wow 425k?
<jrwren> he also joined at the very beginning and never really took a break.
<jrwren> so that is waht? 6 yrs?
<jcastro> yeah
<jjesse> wow
<jcastro> and he literally wrote the book on C#
<jrwren> nah, A book.
<jrwren> not THE book
<jcastro> heh
<jrwren> Mads Torgensen wrote THE book
<jrwren> and by "The Book" I mean the C# Language Specification
<jcastro> still though, SO dwarfs everything: http://stackexchange.com/sites#traffic
<jrwren> yup
<jcastro> though we were head of Gaming in traffic until they started running a contest
<jcastro> we passed serverfault trafficwise last release, so I am hoping we can pass them and stay past them with 12.04
<jrwren> i'm surprised they are that big.
<jcastro> it's a good site, lots of questions with games
<jcastro> "what's the purpose of the blue thing on this level?" etc.
<jrwren> http://askubuntu.com/questions/119534/easiest-way-to-setup-ubuntu-as-a-vpn-server/119545#119545   you've got me answering questions now :p
<jrwren> i mean I'm surprised that ALL those sites are that big. askubuntu, serverfault, superuser.  They all seem to dwarf stackoverflow, but in that graphic it looked like they were not much smaller.
<jrwren> maybe its a logrithmic scale infograph :p
<jrwren> curse you jorge... i'm wasting my time on askubuntu! http://askubuntu.com/questions/118291/ubuntu-kvm-networking/119549#119549
<snap-l> now if it only interfaced with my launchpad karma. ;)
<greg-g> answers.launchpad.net should just redirect to askubuntu
<snap-l> Yes
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-04-07
<rick_h> anyone have the amazon downloader working in ubuntu these days?
<snap-l> rick_h: I've used Banshee as an Amazon Downloader
<snap-l> seems to work OK
<snap-l> G'morning
 * mydogsnameisrudy is thankful for a sunny day ...
<rick_h> party
<rick_h> _stink_: moving to a big boy bed...how many times you think he'll fall out in the next week? lol
<snap-l> rick_h: Nah, he'll be fine
 * snap-l is filling out paper taxes
<rick_h> ugh trying to block out tax stuff
<greg-g> snap-l: I also did my the paper tax way, so old school feeling
<snap-l> WEll, I did it via Tax Act
<snap-l> can't do it competely off the grid
<snap-l> but I totally print my forms.
<snap-l> What the heck
<snap-l> Didn't 12.04 have a way to resize the launcher?
<greg-g> I'm one of those freaks who thinks it should be straight-forward enough for anyone to do their legally required* duty to file their taxes without the help of a 3rd party (paid or unpaid) service
<rick_h> yea, in the appearance controls
<rick_h> there'sa second tab which has the autohide behavior and size controls
<snap-l> It's not in the version I just installed.
<rick_h> greg-g: heh, should be...but I've had to have help the last several years
<rick_h> snap-l: should be, I just did this yesterday with my fresh install
<snap-l> Hmmm...
<rick_h> you go to settings, appearance, and the second tab I thought
<snap-l> Yeah, that's where I went
<greg-g> rick_h: from a pro? you have a lot of investments/etc?
<rick_h> sec, I'll logout/back into unity
<snap-l> it's not there anymore
<snap-l> rick_h: Thanks
<rick_h> greg-g: yea, wife has some, and the business, and just we're in a killer bracket so trying to help make sure we get everything we can
<greg-g> I don't have much other than IRAs and a scottrade account I barely worry about
<greg-g> the business? wife in private practice?
<rick_h> no, I've got a business I started a while back when I was doing web hosting and site designs for some local places
<rick_h> snap-l: doh you're right...wtf
<rick_h> I know it was there
<snap-l> Yeah, it was there
<snap-l> Now I have gigantic fischer-price icons
<greg-g> rick_h: ahhhh, I didn't think she was private practice.
<rick_h> snap-l: oh it's moved to the first page of appearance
<rick_h> not on the second tab, at the bottom under "theme"
<greg-g> rick_h: so, still using that business as a tax shelter? ;)
<rick_h> greg-g: meh not so much, thus wanting to forget tax season...
<greg-g> :)
<jrwren> good morning.
<rick_h> greg-g: but keeping it valid because at some point I'll use that if I can get bookie/bmark.us into a pay/donate state
<jrwren> ha, are you doing taxes today too?
<rick_h> 351851
<jrwren> lol
<rick_h> dammit
<greg-g> I remember aaron t. talking about how he had one that always lost money (on purpose) and is "who bought his computers" each year :/
<snap-l> jrwren: I did my taxes, just getting them ready for mailing
<greg-g> rick_h: ah, rock
<jrwren> i'm sitting down to do them.
<rick_h> greg-g: yea, I did use it for that when I was 'active'
<greg-g> right
<jrwren> i'd wait another week, but its kids birthday then :p
<snap-l> rick_h: It's not in Beta2.
<greg-g> jrwren: heh, I did mine 2 or 3 weeks ago... I have a refund coming :)
<snap-l> Hmm... I think I need to downloa a new iso
<rick_h> snap-l: I just installed beta2 and updated yesterday
<greg-g> jrwren: not that me getting the money much earlier matters given interest rates the way they are
<rick_h> snap-l: under background/theme in the launcher icon size
<snap-l> rick_h: ah, I haven't updated.
<rick_h> how the @#$#@ do people work like this arrrg
<greg-g> haha
<jrwren> greg-g: i owe at least 20k, so delay for me is fun :)
<greg-g> rick spencer said it was great in his AMA :)
<greg-g> jrwren: wow
<jrwren> 1099 and I didn't prepay.
 * greg-g is in a different place in life ;)
<greg-g> ahhhhhhhh
<greg-g> right
<rick_h>  geeze, and they wanted me to schedule quarterly payments for my $4k :/
<rick_h> I don't feel so bad now
<jrwren> rick_h: I'll pay big penalty
<rick_h> jrwren: ah
<snap-l> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9058804/Screenshot-pang%20%5BRunning%5D%20-%20Oracle%20VM%20VirtualBox.png
<rick_h> wtf, can't gnome-terminal open urls?
<snap-l> jrwren: 20k for a year?Damn
<snap-l> rick_h: Right click on the URL
<rick_h> ah, ok
<rick_h> tried middle click, alt-click, shift-click
<greg-g> haha
<greg-g> rick_h is not liking the change
<rick_h> the mouse hovers over it and underlines the link...you'd think a normal click would just work
<rick_h> stupid tools :P
<rick_h> snap-l: yea, I've got another row
<rick_h> I don't get why you'd have to download another iso
<rick_h> just apt-get upgrade :P
<rick_h> ok, done here...back to my system
<snap-l> rick_h: I will, once JoDee stops watching Dance Moms
<snap-l> which is like nails on a chalkboard for me.
<rick_h> dance moms?
<greg-g> ugh, valic is slow as <insert lewd body part here> today
<rick_h> this sounds like another perverted reality show I'll have to make fun of her for watching later on
<rick_h> valic?
<greg-g> yeah, AIG, those guys. the place my employer does matched IRA contributions
<rick_h> ah
<greg-g> I hate them
<rick_h> nice to get match
<greg-g> hated my "financial advisor" who did nothing other than try to sell me life insurance
<rick_h> ugh
 * rick_h is in process of getting life insurance signed up though so guess I can't say much
<rick_h> being a grown up sucks :)
<greg-g> "but, do you really want your wife to WORK if you die? I mean, wouldn't you want to know that you are enabling them to live a life without worry if you die? Even though you'll never see it"
<rick_h> oh good grief
<greg-g> I'm paraphrasing, of course
<snap-l> I want my wife to be a coal miner when I die.
<snap-l> (note: no, not really)
<greg-g> but, I already have some life insurance from work, which would more than cover funeral+a year of living for Carrie/Rowan
<rick_h> yea, our conversation is more "so how many bills do you pay right now? How can I get rid of those if you get hit by a bus"
 * greg-g nods
<rick_h> dr student loans are the suck
<greg-g> we don't have many on going expenses other than rent/car ins/utilities
<greg-g> rick_h: totally
<snap-l> rick_h: s/dr//g
<rick_h> yea, that's true as well
<rick_h> but 8 years of school tends to make them bigger on her side
<snap-l> Oh, no doubt
<jrwren> snap-l: 20k to pay in taxes.
<jrwren> snap-l: most people pay near that. figure 33% on 60k salary - that is 20k.
<snap-l> jrwren: Do you not have any witholding?
<greg-g> 1099s
<greg-g> he's an indie
<snap-l> Ah, OK
<snap-l> Yeah, that's how you run up a tax bill
<jrwren> snap-l: none withheld, that is what I was trying to say.
<greg-g> Gawd, how does Scottrade stay in business, their interface sucks. It takes me about 5 clicks to get to my statements tab
<jrwren> :(
<jrwren> i wonder teh same about etrade, just based on their quote service. it doesn't show me dividends.
<jrwren> i'm a dividend investor. i don't think i'm the only one.
<greg-g> yeah, they all suck
<greg-g> brb, rowan crying
<jrwren> i wonder if they do it on purpose to confuse the layman.
<greg-g> I wouldn't put it past them
<jrwren> zomg, any idiot that thinks iwndows is easier to use than linux is fucking nuts.
<jrwren> i'm just trying to install a printer driver. dell makes this impossible.
 * llua eats his nuts
<jrwren> what kind of nuts?
<llua> winuts.
<jrwren> that said, this particular printer has zero linux support. but that is dells fault again.
<jrwren> wtf are winuts?
<brousch> rick_h: when my kid moved to big boy bed we put a couch cushion on the floor in case he fell. he ended up preferring to sleep on the cushion or under the bed
<jrwren> wierd... i find myself, for the first time every saying yes to the $3 to presidential campain on my form 1040.
 * mydogsnameisrudy thinks jrwren lost his mind
<brousch> mydogsnameisrudy: we all know that. now we're trying to figure out just how lost it is
<mydogsnameisrudy> paying to many taxes and he went nuts
<mydogsnameisrudy> only one way to fix the goverment, remove them all and start over
<jrwren> mydogsnameisrudy: sweet! want to help hutari do just that? ;p
 * mydogsnameisrudy gets in a boat sails to a new land
<jrwren> lol
<mydogsnameisrudy> seems its spelled hutaree
<mydogsnameisrudy> you have freedom of speach . just dont say it outloud
<snap-l> http://openmetalcast.com/2012/04/07/the-best-problems-to-have-link-updates-and-a-heart-felt-thank-you/
<greg-g> snap-l: do I need to update my podcast feed for OMC?
<rick_h> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=CQLFSrfVT8s
<rick_h> I bet that would help a ton with the unity folks
<snap-l> greg-g: Nope, it should work without any difficulty on your part
<greg-g> snap-l: rock.
<Blazeix> rick_h: wow, nice
<rick_h> jcastro: what's the status of fitbit + linux these days?>
<rick_h> ok, starting to dig google music. Spent the last couple of days uploading my old music stuff
<brousch> rick_h: i <3 google music
<brousch> snap-l: the star wars thing was a frickin zoo
<brousch> probably 300 people
<rick_h> ouch
<_stink_> rick_h: hah, good luck!  let me know how it goes
<_stink_> we're getting close to doing that here
<brousch> but they had some really good costumes
<brousch> vader was like 7ft tall and had a voice-altering thing
<snap-l> brousch: WEll, pardon me for underestimating GR crowds
<snap-l> I didn't think Star Wars had played on the theaters over there yet. ;)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-04-08
<brousch> :P
<rick_h> morning
<mydogsnameisrudy> morning to ya
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> Well, I'm brilliant
<snap-l> managed to have two alarms set that didn't go off this morning
<brousch> snap-l: i suggest you invest in an age-old technology for waking you up early: a child
<brousch> you get it up a certain time for a year, and it will wake you up at that time for many years afterwards
<snap-l> brousch: Too expensive.
<snap-l> I'll get a clock radio instead
<brousch> those are prone to electrical failure
<snap-l> And kids are prone to sabotage
<snap-l> by Jack Daniels
<brousch> creepy
<brousch> snap-l: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.3652613513632.170462.1223364084&type=1
<brousch> blah, sorry, https://picasaweb.google.com/102663141609195877664/501stLegionVaderSFistAtTheGRPL
<snap-l> That's awesome.
<snap-l> The jawa costume is awesome
<rick_h> let's see if tihs works...first heroku app
<rick_h> sweet, it's alive
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-04-01
<snap-l> Cool, got a $25 gift certificate for Guild of Blades for shopping there on Tabletop Game day. :)
<ColonelPanic001> woo. I'm home
<snap-l> ColonelPanic001: w/b
<ColonelPanic001> thanks
<ColonelPanic001> I haven't touched a keyboard in a week
<snap-l> yOU'RE IN FOR A SHOCK
<snap-l> They moved the capslock key since you last typed
<ColonelPanic001> oHCRAP WHATS THIS
<ColonelPanic001> I was really amused. I was down in Florida
<ColonelPanic001> and often, when leavingt to go to a restaurant or something, we'd drive on I-75
<snap-l> Yeah, it's quite popular down there. :)
<snap-l> Also, I'm listening to Die Walkure
<snap-l> And obsessing that I don't have this version ripped
<snap-l> even though I hate opera
<snap-l> I can only conclude that I am psychotic an dinsane
<Blazeix> rejoining the internet right in time for april 1st. a poor choice.
<rick_h_> heh greg-g getting invoveld with xkcd ftw http://xkcd.com/1193/
<rick_h_> heh and suckered me into donating for the first time
<snap-l> http://decafbad.net/2013/04/01/open-metalcast-puts-full-support-behind-new-riaa-certified-creative-commons-license/
<snap-l> btw: GOod morning. :)
<rick_h_> morning
<brousch> yo
<brousch> Damnit. It's April fool's Day
<rick_h_> brousch: yes...save us all
<snap-l> I think I'm going to read a book instead of read the internet
<snap-l> and just delete any posts that have a 4/1 timestamp on them in my reader.
<snap-l> Docker is now OSS
<rick_h_> yea
<rick_h_> why I wanted to do that pycon video
<snap-l> Looked pretty interesting
<snap-l> I've already replaced a lot of my "server virtualbox" usage with lxc
<rick_h_> yea, if I end up getting a desktop I might check out running it on there to handle needs like that
<snap-l> create vbox image to play with software, then blow away afterward.
<snap-l> I think it would be my preferred way to deploy ruby shit
<snap-l> none of that stupid not-virtualenv stuff
<rick_h_> yea
<brousch> All I see are document generators
<brousch> Or pants
<rick_h_> huh?
<brousch> Docker
<snap-l> Too new for search
<snap-l> try docker lxc container
<rick_h_> docker.io
<rick_h_> see pycon talk about 'future of lxc containers'
<brousch> Damnit. Now I have to look up Linux containers
<rick_h_> lol
<snap-l> lxc is haaawt
<rick_h_> past time to do that
<snap-l> I hear there's this thing called Juju that people are using
<brousch> I use virtualbox
<rick_h_> with a name like juju I know it's april fools :P
<snap-l> brousch: I did too, but unless I need something with bridged networking, LXC is good for back-of-the-envelope computing
<snap-l> Waiting for an image to spin up, or taking and modifying an existing image is a bit of a pain
<snap-l> If I could figure out bridged networking with LXC without requiring a bunch of libvirt modules to make it happen, that would make my day.
<brousch> It takes about 10s to reboot an Ubuntu 12.04 server VM
<rick_h_> http://r.bmark.us/u/8d69ae88418984 actually rooting for tesla so this is cool. Hopefull that in 10yrs or so we'll have one all electric and one not
<brousch> 10 years is not long enough
<brousch> In 10 years I hope we're all driving hybrids like the Volt
<rick_h_> I don't know. The last 10 years has shown a LOT of progress
<snap-l> Nice
<snap-l> It's all about the batteries
<brousch> I look at the parking lot at work. Not a single hybrid even
<snap-l> I think in 10 years we'll have some major advancements in batteries
<snap-l> WE've already kicked the crap out of Lithium Ion
<brousch> The charging time is just too long
<snap-l> brousch: It'll only get shorter
<brousch> Have to switch to battery swaps or something
<brousch> If not, that's a fuckload of power being pushed through refueling stations
<snap-l> brousch: In 2003, did you even imagine you'd have a smart phone?
<brousch> I'll wet myself every time I have to recharge in slushy weather
<snap-l> let alone one that could do everything your phone does with an overnight charge?
<brousch> A phone is $200 and you replace it every 2 years. A car is $20,000 and you replace it every decade
<brousch> Turnover is easier
<brousch> And you don't need a company every 1/4 mile to keep the phone running
<snap-l> brousch: you're not seeing the bigger picture
<brousch> Don't get me wrong, I want a self-driving electric car. It just won't happen for the vast majority in 10 years
<snap-l> We're in the tadpole stages of electric cars
<rick_h_> the 1hr stuff from tesla seems to be getting darn close to reasonable
<brousch> 1 hour every 300  miles?
<rick_h_> besides, we've learned to change behavior before. I think it's more of a behavior training thing
<rick_h_> brousch: well, to be fair I said one all electric and one not
<rick_h_> I do enjoy my 11hr straight trip to VA
<brousch> I like the Volt's system
<rick_h_> and adding 3 1hr chargings to it would kind of suck
<rick_h_> I don't, I think it's too complicated trying to do the both worlds approach
<rick_h_> not enough of either
<brousch> You put gas in, it charges the battery
<brousch> Or you plug it in
<snap-l> I just find it funny that now we're complaining about the charging times for cars that go 300 miles
<snap-l> as opposed to complalining about the charging times for cars that could barely make a commute
<snap-l> If that ain't progress, I don't know what is. :)
<brousch> It is progress, but it won't get adopted until I can refuel in 5 minutes
<rick_h_> the big thing for them is that the batteries won't be new capacity all the time.
<rick_h_> as someone that tries to keep cars 5-7 years, ugh for dealing with capacity leakage over time
<rick_h_> but hoping in 10yr things get better
<snap-l> brousch: but what if your car could refuel at the burger king?
<rick_h_> brousch: I don't think so. I think some of that is just training people's habits
<snap-l> While you're stuffing your face with the whopper, your car is busily recharging
<snap-l> 15 - 20 minutes later, you're both rearing to go
<brousch> That would be nice
<snap-l> We could return to the drive-in lanes, where you have some teenager skate over to your car, plug it in, and take your order.
<brousch> I don't think the electric grid is ready fo that
<snap-l> well, that's the whole alternative energy discussion. :)
<snap-l> but 5 minutes ago you were complaining about an hour long charge
<rick_h_> bah, just play along and keep saying 'in 10 years' :P
<brousch> Too much too change in 10 years
<snap-l> because you were waiting in a gas station, not sitting in a 1950s themed drive in
<rick_h_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cumulative_US_HEV_Sales_by_year_1999_2009.png
<snap-l> It only takes a little lateral thinking to see how awesome this could be.
<rick_h_> 10yrs is a long time
<snap-l> also, charts can tell any story. ;)
<brousch> There are 250 million cars in America. So that chart shows 0-1% jump in 10 years
<rick_h_> just saying that 'hybrids' in their current have moved a ton in the last 10yrs...as in become major consumer products
<snap-l> I think it's just brousch showing that great Western Michigan trait of "hey, who left the light on, dammit? These things cost money." ;)
<brousch> It boggled my mind when gas went to $4/gal and shop guys were still driving their 10 year old superduty pickups to work from ionia and fremont
<brousch> It had to be costing them 1/2 of their pay to get to work and back
<snap-l> brousch: Yep, but that's how they do their work
<brousch> No, they drive to work, work all day, then drive home
<snap-l> no way in hell you're getting 600lbs of cement from point a to point b in a prius with two other guys.
<brousch> These guys work in the shop, not in the field
<snap-l> Ah, n/m then
<rick_h_> yea, why I <3 my touareg. My family are all big truck people, F250+ and when I said I got 30MPG to ATL and back they did a double take
<rick_h_> even my brother's F150 wasn't close and it's a V6
<rick_h_> but I am paying more for diesel right now :/
<snap-l> Ford's truck engines are not terribly efficient at delivering power.
<brousch> A few years ago I looked at buying a scooter to get to work and back. I couldn't justify it based on gas savings
<brousch> I guess if gas hits $10/gal we could see big electric uptake
<brousch> Electric has to be as convenient as gas and cheaper before americans will give up their manly machines
<rick_h_> one manly machine one around town vehicle :P
<brousch> Heh, I just understood your original comment
<brousch> I thought you meant Tesla would make 1 all-electric vehicle and one hybrid (not), not that you would own one of each
<brousch> I'm due for a new car in 3-5 years. I hope to get a hybrid or all-electric, but I'd have to be able to justify it in money saved over the life of the vehicle
<snap-l> It's going to take longer than 3-5 years for this to be affordable
<brousch> It won't get adopted until it's affordable
<snap-l> Not true
<snap-l> there's always the early-adopters
<brousch> They are few
<snap-l> I think they're more numerous than you might think
<snap-l> Steve Jackson of Steve Jackson Games just bought a Tesla S
<brousch> He is rich
<snap-l> Not in the way you might think
<snap-l> he's quite shrewd and frugal
<snap-l> http://sjgames.com/ill/archive/March_28_2013/Steve_Gets_A_Model_S_Fnord
<snap-l> Dammit, someone already has FNORD up here. :(
<brousch> That's a $50,000 car. For it to be frugal, it would have to save $30,000 in gas compared to a $20,000 corola. At $10/gal and assuming it costs $0 to charge the Tesla that would mean about 90,000 miles of driving. More realistically, it means it might break even if the car lasts 15 years
<rick_h_> or sometimes you just pay for the privilege of better...after all people seem to be about paying extra for those organic fruits/veges
<snap-l> brousch: You buy a car like that not because it's frugal, but because it's an ALL ELECTRIC VEHICLE WITH NO ENGINE TO SPEAK OF
<brousch> Right, but snap-l implied it was a shrewd or frugal purchase
<rick_h_> "for you to buy this organic oragic orange it will need to be 1.75 better for you in taste and calories"
<snap-l> i made no such claims
<snap-l> I said that Steve Jackson was not righ
<snap-l> rich
<snap-l> He's no pimp, even though I'm a whore for their games.
<snap-l> Hey, waitaminute.
<snap-l> Maybe he is a pimp after all. ;)
<rick_h_> lmao https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-lens-shopping/+bug/1156100
<brousch> awesome
<snap-l> Love the finger pointing
<snap-l> Yes it's Amazon not filtering things, but seriously
<snap-l> O'Reilly has a booklet on LED lighting
<snap-l> I swear, they just want me to give them money or something
<greg-g> rick_h_: on Friday Randall Monroe reached out to some people in #wikimedia-gendergap (not sure why there, he's been idling there for a couple/few weeks) about today's comic :)
<rick_h_> curses! forgot my headphones again.
<greg-g> stupid monday
<rick_h_> need to have some detector that picks up lack of headphones when heading to the coffee shop
<brousch> Google Now
<rick_h_> bad thing is I had them on the charger so they'd have juice to use at the coffee shop
<rick_h_> so thought a little ahead today
<rick_h_> hah
<brousch> "5 minutes to Caribou coffe. don't forget your headphones!"
<greg-g> just not far enough
<rick_h_> greg-g: that's cool on the wikimedia stuff. Got me to donate for the first time so success
<greg-g> w00t!
<greg-g> love when others unilaterally get more donations to your org :)
<greg-g> he has a post about WP every now and then, so he's definitely a user
<rick_h_> cool, yea I don't tend to use it much so never bothered.
<rick_h_> try to hit more small devs working on cool stuff I use, but wth :)
<rick_h_> bigger dogs are better!
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> we're pretty efficient at creating postive impact with your dollars, I promise
 * greg-g hides his morning champagne bottle
<rick_h_> hah
<rick_h_> well I secretly donated hoping it'd help you get back to a thinkpad :P
<greg-g> YE!
<greg-g> +S
<greg-g> in 2 years or whatever the cycle is, I'm lobbying REAL hard
<snap-l> rick_h_: http://mvsm.bandcamp.com/ You must check this band out
<rick_h_> snap-l: if I had brought my headphones I would :)
<rick_h_> snap-l: will do though.
<snap-l> It's like Tool's doppelganger
<rick_h_> heh cool
<greg-g> WHY U NO RECOMMEND ME, SNAP-L?
<snap-l> rick_h_: Screw the rest of the folks at the coffeeshop. This is important
<snap-l> greg-g: Figured you already knew about 'em. ;)
<snap-l> greg-g: What with being at wikimedia and all. ;)
<greg-g> wikimedia hosts bandcamp? ;)
<snap-l> wikimedia knows all. ;)
<greg-g> oh, right, that's true
<snap-l> greg-g: http://mvsm.bandcamp.com/ OMG YOU MUST CHECK THIS OUT!
<snap-l> happy now?
<greg-g> SWEET I WILL!
<greg-g> thanks buddy
<greg-g> ;)
<snap-l> KTHZBAI!
<rick_h_> greg-g: funny http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/106963/how-does-a-fine-woodworker-change-a-lightbulb
<jcastro> rick_h_: this  is how imagine your daily life
<brousch> jcastro++
<rick_h_> jcastro: hah, I'm not yet worthy enough to have gone this far. Many years of apprenticeship to go
<brousch> Need to shovel the snow? Build a shovel custom tailored to the snowfall amount and type
<jcastro> rick_h_: the wood case for the new bulb is the best
<rick_h_> yea, with the french cutout. My issue is the bulb isn't LED so can't be me
<jcastro> indeed
<rick_h_> ooh, chair finally shipped
<greg-g> rick_h_: also, he cleans the glass of the bulb, then while cleaning the contact points, puts his filthy fingers all over the bulb again
<rick_h_> greg-g: :)
<snap-l> Only the finest artisinal bulbs grace rick_h_'s sockets.
<greg-g> you know, when ever you say something like that, snap-l, it sounds dirty
<snap-l> handmade by expert Amish craftsmen
<snap-l> Heh
<snap-l> Evening
<rick_h_> evening
<snap-l> Are we having fun yet?
<rick_h_> oh yea, code review party
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-04-02
<snap-l> Apparently the people of Macomb CC are functionally rtarded
<snap-l> THree people using their cell phones next to a "Cell phone use is restricted to stairwells"
<snap-l> and I forgot my headphones
<snap-l> Oh, and he's a fucking real-estate douchebag
<snap-l> niiiiice
<snap-l> 15 minutes in photoshop, and he's a fucking brollionaire
<snap-l> Say sick one more time motehrfucer
<snap-l> GAAAAAAAAH
<snap-l> "first most important thing is the bio"
<snap-l> "I can make this thing white"
<snap-l> "I can make images look SICK"
<snap-l> "Think I should do a web app?"
<snap-l> "There's too much flash on this"
<snap-l> I want to fucking throttle him
<snap-l> "Look, I think this is what's tight..."
<snap-l> At least he's an accessiblity douche
<monkeyjuice> is this called venting?
<snap-l> IT is called "I have no mouth, and must scream"
<monkeyjuice> ah ok
<snap-l> It's a regular feature here. :)
 * snap-l reminds himself to check the nicklist from time to time. :)
<monkeyjuice> well i did hear you loud and clear ;)
<snap-l> Welcome. :)
<monkeyjuice> ive been here
<monkeyjuice> ;)
<monkeyjuice> just dont talk much
<snap-l> DOn't let me hog the channel then. :)
<monkeyjuice> its ok
<monkeyjuice> you need to let you that stress ;)
<monkeyjuice> let out that is
<snap-l> THank you. :)
<snap-l> I wish Google Calendar refreshed ical feeds more frequently
<monkeyjuice> your calendar changes that much?
<snap-l> I'm trying to sort out the MUG feed, and it's not showing me the right timezone
<snap-l> and unfortunately if you unsubscribe from a feed, it's not the same as removing it
<snap-l> so it'll cache for 4-24 hours
<snap-l> Which doesn't help me debug things. :)
<monkeyjuice> must be why i dont use it ;)
<snap-l> heh
<monkeyjuice> kiss
<monkeyjuice> keep it simple stuped ;)
<snap-l> http://openmetalcast.com/2013/04/01/open-metalcast-episode-69-pranky-cranky/
<snap-l> morning
<monkeyjuice> morning
<snap-l> How's the morning treating everyone?
<monkeyjuice> had coffee , breakfast , and the sun is up
<rick_h_> people need to wake up at a reasonable hour and quit holding me up
<rick_h_> :P
<snap-l> rick_h_: Reasonable = before your morning paper arrives? :-P
<rick_h_> snap-l: reasonable == whenever I'm up
<rick_h_> it's completely reasonable
<rick_h_> it is...don't look at me like that
<brousch> snap-l: morning what?
<snap-l> brousch: wood?
<brousch> Which comes first: the morning paper or the morning wood?
<snap-l> depends on the paper.
<widox> ugh, I'm ready to head back to bed. up at 4am blows
<snap-l> widox: Getting up at 4am is your first mistake
<snap-l> What posessed you to get up that early?
<widox> big code release last night, and this morning
<snap-l> Oh, those are the worst.
<rick_h_> widox: up at 4am? bug in the release hopefully? Or was that the master plan?
<snap-l> Let's get a bunch of sleep-deprived coders together and push out code
<widox> but, feels good to finaly have it out
<snap-l> what could possibly go wrong? :)
<widox> :)
<widox> rick_h_: was the plan to finish @4
<rick_h_> ugh, sounds like a bad plan to me.
<widox> another process was taking way long
<widox> so, we had to wait :(
<rick_h_> double ugh, LP had many suckages, but damned if we couldn't do releases in sub 5-min downtime
<rick_h_> which rolled across the server behind haproxy meant little notice to users
<snap-l> rick_h_: yeah, I would have shot someone if the SF pushes had to happen at the same time as the Chrysler pushes
<widox> we have like min 2 hour releases every 2 weeks
<snap-l> HA == Godsend
<widox> thankful I don't have to be involved
<jrwren_> I think I was still in bed when rick_h_ wrote about people being up at a reasonable hour.
<jrwren_> widox: what code?
<jrwren_> looking for that link, I think rick_h_ pasted praising the 80col limit of pep8
<jrwren_> just a few days ago IIRC
<rick_h_> jrwren_: which link?
 * rick_h_ is confused 
<jrwren_> maybe I didn't find it from rick_h_
<brousch> jrwren_: I think I saw such an article on the Python Planet feed
<jrwren_> must have been link from twitter, but I can't find it in my browser history :(
<jrwren_> firefox history search needs work
<brousch> I can't find it either
<snap-l> It was from March 28th
<snap-l> unfortunately clicking on planet Python destroyed the link in my history
<jrwren_> http://wrongsideofmemphis.com/2013/03/25/80-chars-per-line-is-great/
<snap-l> jrwren_: That's the one
<snap-l> I remember the VT100
<jrwren_> me too. TERM=vt100
<jrwren_> :)
<snap-l> Let's not get too carried away. :)
<jrwren_> snap-l: I'm surprised you don't own a vt100 and have it as a serial console
<snap-l> I have an ADM11
<snap-l> gave Rick a Ditto 220xl
<snap-l> Haven't been able to find a VT100 or 101
<rick_h_> jrwren_: oh yea, I linked to that a couple of weeks ago :)
<widox> jrwren_: work junk
<rick_h_> the man loves his work
<jrwren_> good that you loves it.
<jrwren_> waking up early for a deploy is nothing I'm interested in doing, ever.
<jrwren_> :)
<widox> heh. me either. first, hopefully last time
<rick_h_> greg-g: http://hairysun.com/blog/2013/04/02/oh-ergonomic-keyboard/
<rick_h_> I think you were pointing that uot before? or was it brousch ?
<brousch> I did nothing
<rick_h_> ok, nvm then
<greg-g> rick_h_: oh cool, a completed one
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea
<snap-l> I still don't understand the lust for the split keyboard
<snap-l> that said, if in 2-5 years time I'm sitting here with a split keyboard on my desk, I will just give rick_h_ my credit card and tell him to buy me cool things
<greg-g> snap-l: dangerous dangerous
<snap-l> Yeah, but it'll all work and be carefully curated. :)
<greg-g> there's a price for that, it's what the apple fanbois pay for
<rick_h_> ugh!!!!!
<rick_h_> I feel like my aunt who has a bad day and wants to go shoe shopping
<greg-g> hehe
<rick_h_> I'm either going to start shooting people or the UPS man is going to get my chair here to sooth me
<greg-g> new keyboard on the way?
<rick_h_> new chair
<rick_h_> I"m happy with the leopold 10less for now
<greg-g> :)
<snap-l> rick_h_: I'd recommend a trip to Microcenter, but that usually puts me in  worse mood. :)
<jrwren_> rick_h_: i stress eat. and at work, with the snack wall, it is a problem.
<rick_h_> jrwren_: I"m with you today. Damn easter candy. It's like halloween with church approval.
<greg-g> jrwren_: man, totally. and on this paleo thing, the kitchen at WMF is soooo tempting
<jrwren_> today was going to be my first day in a long time not hitting the snack wall, but I don't know if I can hold out
<snap-l> whew
<snap-l> just finished the cat box. Again.
<rick_h_> yay?
<snap-l> It's like changing a giant diaper
<snap-l> A giant, awkward, clay-filled diaper
 * greg-g is so happy rowan poops mainly in the toilet
<greg-g> why people put up with cats I have no idea ;)
<snap-l> Because they're sweet and adorable killing machines with your ultimate demise at heart.
<greg-g> the first part sounds like rowan, the second part isn't something I want ;)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-04-03
<rick_h_> morning
<monkeyjuice> morning
<brousch> yes
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> (Going out on a limb here. :) )
<rick_h_> it's not yesterday so we'll go with 'good' for now
<brousch> rick_h_: Why are you such a grumpy pants?
<rick_h_> because work sucks :P
<rick_h_> and yesterday sucked, I'm still recovering
<rick_h_> and I find grumpy is generally a good place to start out. Day can get better then heh
<rick_h_> see, I just remembered it's a CHC day. Already looking up!
<UnFixed> Just activated my phone on ting last night. In case anyone was interested. Signal at home is pretty good.
<snap-l> UnFixed: Awesome! glad to hear it!
<snap-l> I'm trying to justify getting an airrave. ;)
<snap-l> But $279 to fix Sprint's lack of coverage is a bit steep
<snap-l> I lvoe trying to figure out MySQL's broken-ass syntax
<snap-l> You have an error in your SQL syntax; check the manual that corresponds to your MySQL server version for the right syntax to use near
<snap-l> (something that should work)
<rick_h_> heh
<UnFixed> considering getting the home phone connect 2, since i got rid of my landline.
<UnFixed> and it would just share minutes with my cellphone.
<snap-l> Yeah, if it works for you, I'd go for it
<snap-l> OK, MySQL needs to find a fire and promptly die in it
<snap-l> Want to know what my problem was?
<snap-l> one of the columns is named "desc"
<snap-l> guess what MySQL will treat as a command, no matter where it's located?
<snap-l> http://bugs.mysql.com/bug.php?id=50883
<snap-l> brousch: BTW: Picked up Sins of a Solar Empire Trinity from Stardock on DVD
<snap-l> Plays nicely under Crossover 12
<snap-l> Played a bit of the tutorial before bed. Damn, this is a deep game
<brousch> snap-l: http://clusterbleep.net/blog/2012/07/17/running-stardocks-sins-of-a-solar-empire-rebellion-on-linux/
<snap-l> Yeah, I had a license for Crossover, and decided when I was making an order on Amazon to pull the trigger on the older version just to see if it worked.
<brousch> I keep asking my sister when they are going to make games for Linux now that Steam is on it
<brousch> apparently they make more money from their Windows8 apps than from games
<snap-l> yeah, I can imagine
<snap-l> They're not exactly AAA twitch-fests
<snap-l> You're not going to hand Solar Empires to someone with a half-hour to kill
<rick_h_> lmao https://twitter.com/TheLazyDog_/status/319427516345503744/photo/1
<snap-l> hahahahahaha
<rick_h_> I mean the card is funny, but the comment about it is equally funny.
<rick_h_> see, day is looking up :)
<rick_h_> and I remembered headphones to the coffee shop "I am the greatest man that ever lived...I was born to give and give..."
<snap-l> heh. :)
<brousch> Cleaning out some old stuff when I came across this https://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/ricks_new_profile_pic.jpg
<rick_h_> ruh roh
<snap-l> Is there some run on Star Wars VHS tapes that I'm not aware of?
<snap-l> I literally sold two of them in the past 30 days.
<widox> wait, someone is buying VHS tapes?
<rick_h_> heh yea, not been able to play a VHS tape in something approaching 10yrs
<brousch> snap-l: Lucas is trying to buy them all up to destroy so there will be only the revised versions of Star Wars
<snap-l> brousch: That's the most salient response I can come up with
<jcastro> greg-g: what's your WMF email contact info? (PM me)
<rick_h_> <3 BSOD jokes on the daily show from last night.
<snap-l> http://decafbad.net/2013/04/01/open-metalcast-puts-full-support-behind-new-riaa-certified-creative-commons-license/#comments
<greg-g> jcastro: greg@wikimedia.org
<greg-g> hello from the juror's room, btw
<snap-l> greg-g: Going through selection?
<snap-l> http://imgur.com/a/UWU9X
<greg-g> snap-l: didn't get called (didn't even get to selection part) :(
<snap-l> greg-g: Sorry to hear that.
<greg-g> I even get 5 paid days off for jury duty each year!
<snap-l> greg-g: that's pretty enlightened
<greg-g> yeah, the WMF is
<snap-l> When I went for Jury Duty one year, I was contracting, so it was like getting a pay cut for the day
<snap-l> and had the fun of declaring it on my taxes too
<snap-l> It's like unemployment without the fucking around all day.
<snap-l> or the self loathing. :)
<greg-g> heh
<greg-g> yeah, the funny part was when they said that you can get $2.50 flat mileage plus $15.00/per day, unless you're a govt employee, you only get the $2.50
<greg-g> well, there were a lot of funny parts, that was one of them
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-04-04
<slestak> jcastro: you in?
<jrwren> snap-l: how did you declare teh jury duty on your taxes when you were contracting? I missed how to do that and just ate the loss.
<snap-l> jrwren: IIRC they send you a form for it
<snap-l> I don't remember, as we were in Belleville when it happened
<snap-l> or I kept the stub or something
<jjesse> so here's something awesome I use beautiful widgets on my phone and nexus 7 and both of them are displaying the time as 17:54 instead of 9:54
<jjesse> and it seems they randomly switched
<rick_h_> woot
<rick_h_> helpful
<jjesse> i don't even know what time zone is 17:54
<jjesse> gmt?
<rick_h_> no, I mean we're -4 or -5
<rick_h_> so that'd just be 14/15:00
<jjesse> well thats silly
<rick_h_> time.gov is still a java app?!
<brousch> Java is the only language we can trust with such a task
<rick_h_> so yea, we're at -4 right now so it's almost 14:00. So you're 4 hours ahead of that. lol, so that's UAE. Time to move
<brousch> The Arabs have hacked jjesse!
<jjesse> woot woot
<snap-l> http://www.geek.com/microsoft/windows-blue-to-be-called-windows-8-1-official-this-summer-1550824/ <- I want to know if this is directly related to the new Marajuana laws that took effect in Washington
<brousch> ug, pypi is flaky today
<snap-l> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1247257383/hardwood-playing-cards?ref=recently_launched
<jrwren> mirror pypi!
<rick_h_> I didn't say it!
<Blazeix> isn't pypi always flaky?
<Blazeix> i think every time i've tried to use it i've had connection issues
<rick_h_> yea, but there are mirrors, a-d at least. and B/C were up while this was down while A/D where down
<rick_h_> so if you have mirrors setup ok you should have been ok
<rick_h_> http://about.travis-ci.org/blog/introducing-mac-ios-rubymotion-testing/ cool
<brousch> RubyMotion is expensive
<snap-l> Also in crack-pipe news: http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/geary-a-beautiful-modern-open-source-email-client
<snap-l> I could probably pledge $20,000 and never have to pay it out.
<snap-l> I <3 the $2500 goal
<snap-l> I can travel to your office, at my expense, and sit and code with you.
<snap-l> I wonder if they have the option to put me up for the night, because JoDee would likely not even let me sleep on the couch after that. :)
<brousch> Due to pledging $20,000 or due to the geeker in your home office?
<greg-g> ugh, 100k? on indiegogo? never going to happen
<greg-g> they didn't even do the flexible option where the get whatever is pledged even without hitting the goal
<snap-l> brousch: Due to flying out to San Francisco to hang out and watch them code.
<snap-l> greg-g: Honestly, I think it's better that way
<greg-g> that they wasted their time making a video? ;)
<snap-l> That level of hubris needs to be nipped.
<greg-g> heh, true
<greg-g> effing san franciscans
<greg-g> I guess I shouldn't say that much, Rowan is more san franciscans than most (he was actually born here)
<brousch> He is doomed
<greg-g> yep
<snap-l> Best make plans for homeschooling, or he'll learn all sorts of things in school
<snap-l> like that the world revolves around him.
<brousch> He is in SF. It does!
<greg-g> gawd, CEO at CC said something just like that once. Mentioned something about timezones and how Pacific is really hard to schedule with anywhere else in the world, and she was like "but we're the center of the world!" in a serious, deadpan, way.
<snap-l> How dare she
<snap-l> After all, Eastern Time Zone is God's TImezone
<greg-g> snap-l: according to the New Yorkers, you're just biggy-backing off of them
<snap-l> Hey, Detroit has it's own Timezone, so nyah
<snap-l> America/Detroit, muthafuckas
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-04-05
<snap-l> http://i.imgur.com/mI3jt3i.jpg
<rick_h_> morning
<brousch> gah
<rick_h_> that good eh?
<brousch> heh, seems legit https://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/screenshot-19.png
<jrwren> i wrote python yesterday.
<jrwren> crazy eh?
<rick_h_> woot
<rick_h_> and you still have both eyes in place?
<jrwren> oh yes.
<rick_h_> yay
<jrwren> its not terrible most of the time.
<jrwren> I think the number of gripes is about on par with other great languages like C#
<jcastro> greg-g: we'll be there for some server sprint stuff
<jrwren> what is a good lightweight timer even library? gevent seems big to pull to just fire events every hour
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> jrwren: Which language?
<snap-l> http://docs.python.org/2/library/sched.html
<jrwren> python
<jrwren> oh, sched? what is this? wrapper around sigalrm I hope
<snap-l> Likely
<snap-l> I think it uses whatever is available on the target OS
<jrwren> thanks.
<jrwren> i only target linux :)
<snap-l> Actually, it's a while loop
<jrwren> seriously?
<snap-l> Seriously
<jrwren> threading.timer it is!
<brousch> cron!
<jrwren> avoiding cron
<snap-l> Honestly, if it's something you want to have happen on the hour or something like that, you might want to consider cron
<jrwren> yup, considered it.
<jrwren> i'm no nub
<snap-l> kk. :)
<snap-l> I've seen people avoid cron, only ro reimplement it poorly. :)
<jrwren> i wont be reimpl
<jrwren> and I wont have to lock to prevent concurrent execs
<snap-l> http://stackoverflow.com/a/384493/535883
<snap-l> :)
<jrwren> i don't want that either.
<jrwren> 8 lines of code that i wont need
<jrwren> besides, updating the definition of a module variable from out of process doesn't sound easy to me.
<snap-l> That's what sed is for. ;)
<snap-l> Also, is this going to be a long-running process? That might have it's own bit of fun if the machine goes down.
<snap-l> or the process tanks.
<jrwren> lol, sed would be sweet.
<jrwren> does sed work on /proc/*/mem ?
<jrwren> not sure what you mean or what a long running process would make a difference.
<snap-l> I don't see why sed wouldn't work if there was a filesystem analogue there. :)
<snap-l> jrwren: Does persistence matter if someone pulled the plug on the machine, or if the system crashes?
<jrwren> ah, right.
<jrwren> nope, i write with chaos monkey in mind :)
<greg-g> jcastro: ah, I thought it may have been an ODS, but that's in Portland (just discovered)
<snap-l> No DVDs for 13.04
<snap-l> I think that's a very smart move
<snap-l> honestly, they were worthless once the new release came out
<snap-l> I still have stacks of 12.10 discs
<snap-l> They're getting released into the wild at the release party.
<greg-g> yeah, I felt bad throwing away so many CDs over the years of being LoCo contact ;)
<snap-l> I've been fortunate to not have to throw out a disc
<snap-l> but I have just left them on the freebie table at Penguicon
<snap-l> fortunately they seem to have found homes
<snap-l> even if it was for someone's art project or for skeet. :)
<greg-g> good deal, you're a better pusher than I
<snap-l> greg-g: More a litterbug. ;)
<greg-g> both
<snap-l> ;)
<brousch> snap-l: You sent them to me, you bastard :P
<brousch> I have a frickin box full
<snap-l> Think of it like delegation. :)
<snap-l> meeting this weekend, BTW: http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/ubuntu-michigan/514/detail/
<snap-l> I think I'm getting lectured on how the Creative Commons works in the Creative Commons Metal Community that I created.
<greg-g> snap-l: you've made it
<snap-l> https://plus.google.com/u/0/106429198406662182216/posts/8FHNjLw4nFj?cfem=1
<_stink_> haha
<greg-g> nice, he was trying to be helpful
<snap-l> Yeah, I understand. ;)
<snap-l> But still, I had to do a double-take. :)
<greg-g> and odd, I can't visually tell that this discussion was "happening" "within" the OMC group
<greg-g> I see "Cr..." linked at the top, but have to hover over it to see the group name, and that's the only place it is displayed?
<snap-l> Yeah, apparently.
<greg-g> oh g+
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-04-06
<rick_h_droid> morning
<snap-l> Well, apparently Caribou is closing up
<snap-l> Madison Heights Caribou is closing
<snap-l> What I understand is there will be 8 of them in Michigan, now called Peets
<snap-l> what will peets do you ask? close 88 stores and put hundreds of dedicated hard working caribou employees out of work with virtually little notice. i am one of them.
<derekv> link?
<derekv> you work at a caribou?
<snap-l> No, I don't
<snap-l> it was a comment on the Forbes article
<derekv> they are buying all the caribous?
<snap-l> They gave the employees notice this weekend, for a store closing on the 14th
<rick_h_droid> huh?
 * rick_h_droid goes after news
<snap-l> German dude bought Caribou, and previously owned Peets
<snap-l> Apparently 88 stores are closing, and some of them are becoming peets
<derekv> wtf is a peets?
<derekv> frankley i've been dissallusioned with corperate coffee chains for a while
<rick_h_droid> linky?
<snap-l> Apparently it's a popular place on the west coast
<derekv> not that the staff deservers anything bad
<snap-l> http://www.forbes.com/sites/caroltice/2012/12/18/what-the-new-owner-of-peets-and-caribou-coffee-will-do-next/
<rick_h_droid> Peets is super wear coast coffee. well respected out there
<jjesse> Big fan of Peets
<jjesse> great coffee
<jjesse> so the dude who owns Peets owns Caribu?
<rick_h_droid> what's the fancy grocer?
<jjesse> which one?
<rick_h_droid> that does all the organic and such?
<jjesse> Whole Foods or something else
<snap-l> The dide that bought peets bought caribou
<rick_h_droid> yea Peets is the whole foods of coffee
<derekv> i always liked indie coffee shops
<derekv> but they get crushed
<jjesse> i would prefer caribou over starbucks but that doenst seem to be any by me
<rick_h_droid> yea caribou here. where I go each day
<derekv> there's a big coffee beanery near me
<derekv> its south of the RO caribou
<rick_h_droid> and hosted CHC for yesrs
<derekv> cofee beanery has a different crowd
<snap-l> I'm just getting a little sick of things that I like going away
<rick_h_droid> hmm nothing in there on closing but the comments. I'll have to check with my local place we I go up in a bit.
<snap-l> I think they just found out today
<rick_h_droid> I know the managers up there.
<jjesse> wait you think caribou would close because of this purchase?
<snap-l> jjesse: I know it's closing
<snap-l> purchase already happened
<jjesse> all or just the one you guys normally go to?
<jjesse> justa bit confused
<snap-l> No Bou in Michigan any longer
<snap-l> Only Peets, and only in limited locations
<jjesse> wow
<jjesse> did you get that from the aricle or something?
<snap-l> No, from an associate at the store
<rick_h_> so just went up and talked to peek at my local place
<rick_h_> they're done in a week :(
<rick_h_> they're still telling employees, they don't all know
<rick_h_> less than one in ten is staying open and they're turning into peets
<jjesse> that scusks
<rick_h_> sounds selfish but really really bummed. CHC is probably going to need to relocate again and my daily caribou 'work with coffee in the afternoon' is over
<derekv> the coffee hangout is dead. =[
<derekv> where will anyone do their homework
<rick_h_> :P
<derekv> I call conspiracy.
<derekv> Its a slippery slope that leads to ban on public gatherings.
<rick_h_droid> talked with the manager and looks like the Woodward store will stay open and turn into Peets eventually. lol one closes the doors next Sunday at noon :-(
<rick_h_droid>  /lol/local
<snap-l> WEll, that's somewhat of a relief
<snap-l> ish
<rick_h_droid> yea
<rick_h_droid> will be interesting to see how it transforms.
<rick_h_droid> can't help but wonder if they'll shut down, re-theme and if that means the room would go away.
<snap-l> I think we might want to plan for that eventuality
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-04-07
<derekv> good idea
<derekv> i wouldn't be suprised if they get no severance pay
<derekv> i thinky i might install ubuntu on this box
<snap-l> We won't stop you. :)
<tony-smlr> SMLR is Live!  Video: http://www.youtube.com/user/tbemus?v=opFwsEzFs14 , Audio: http://live.smlr.us/streaming
<tony-smlr> SMLR is Live!  Video: http://www.youtube.com/user/tbemus?v=opFwsEzFs14 , Audio: http://live.smlr.us:8000/streaming
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h_> morn
<snap-l> yay, bug fixed in CiviCRM: http://issues.civicrm.org/jira/browse/CRM-10655?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=49680#comment-49680
<rick_h_> yay
<snap-l> At least it will be in the next release.
<greg-g> good god stupid long url
<snap-l> Jira: Stupid is as stupid does.
<rick_h_> so sad everyone stopping at the front door of the coffee shop to read the closing sign.
<rick_h_> ... and everyone leaving the door open while they read :/
<snap-l> Yeah, it hit JoDee pretty hard too
<snap-l> It was like the anti-starbucks here
<rick_h_> yea, everyone's all sad around here. Did get a free coffee. She's just like "I'm not taking your money.
<snap-l> I'm really upset at how they handled this
<snap-l> it makes me really reluctant to get too attached to Peets.
<brousch> What's going on?
<rick_h_> yea, well I can't decide if I'm just sad or upset enough to say $#@$@ it and move CHC anyway
<rick_h_> brousch: https://www.facebook.com/cariboucoffee?filter=2 not a lot of 'news' about it
<snap-l> I think they're still digesting what it all means
<brousch> I don't think I've ever been to one
<rick_h_> brousch: so I've been coming to one that's < 1mi from my house for years. When I'm chatting about working from the coffee shop it's been here.
<brousch> And they're shutting them all down?
<rick_h_> I know all the managers, regional manager (we chat football when he's visiting) lots of employees (half are going through college)
<rick_h_> basically 8/10 shutting down it seems.
<rick_h_> CHC is held at one of the few that supposedly will be staying open and turned into a peets in the summer/end of year
<snap-l> brousch: They're shutting down most of them, and turning the rest into Peets coffee.
<brousch> I had a coffee shop like that. It was sad to see it go. When we drive by, George still asks if we can go in there
<rick_h_> yea, we bring Michael here on weekends and such
<brousch> I haven't ever found a replacement. I've settled on Biggby
<rick_h_> he jokes that his cup of juice is a 'coffee cooler like daddy'
<rick_h_> :(
<snap-l> Biggby is OK, but the one by us is really small and hard to get into
<rick_h_> yea, nothing really around but a starbucks that I don't really care for
<rick_h_> but yea, so working from there atm and just sad. Want to come up and 'represent' by kind of depressing
<Blazeix> pretty neat: http://thejh.net/misc/website-terminal-copy-paste
<rick_h_> heh
<greg-g> nice
<snap-l> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=KDN1UbFyVwQ#! <- jcastro: Your next bass guitar.
<snap-l> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDs95VzOc_o  <- 4 string version
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-03-31
<jrwren> my backup script does file by file gpg and s3 upload and is SLOW!!!
<rick_h_> imagine that lol
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> greg-g: Reading / Listening to that Debt the first 5,000 years book
<cmaloney> I think I'm starting to see glitches in The Matrix. :)
<cmaloney> ch. 1-3 are worth the price of admission
<rick_h_> morning
<cmaloney> Are we having fun yet?
<rick_h_> not really
<cmaloney> Glad I'm not the only one.
<rick_h_> cold in the head and very sleepy. must resist urge to go back to bed
<cmaloney> Heh
<cmaloney> I've been essentially up since 4:30am
<cmaloney> Kind of crashing
<cmaloney> Thank you citizen for your review: https://archive.org/details/OpenMetalcastInstrumetalcast8LostTime
<brousch> heh
<brousch> From now on you must only play the songs Benjamin S. thinks are the greatest of all time
<cmaloney> (rolls eyes)
<brousch> Moving massive amounts of data (for me) over gigabit today. I hit 140MB/s writing to my NAS
<brousch> Most of the office is 100mbps, so that is wicked fast for me
<jrwren> http://www.mug.org/2014/03/april-2014-mug-meeting/  there is no actual date in the announce.  /I/ know it is april 8th, but others may not.
<jrwren> good morning.
<cmaloney> jrwren: Will fix. Thanks!
<jrwren> backup script ran and finished, so it wasn't TOO slow.
<jrwren> brousch: only 140MB? I used to get 500MB on my gigabit :)
<jrwren> brousch: disk bottleneck?
<jrwren> hahaha... the comments, oh the comments!  http://thelivingpearl.com/2014/03/24/20-good-functions-to-know-in-python/
<brousch> But 140MB is 1.1GB
<brousch> Gb
<brousch> Seems like the right cap to me
<mrgoodcat> jrwren: lol they tore that dude apart
<greg-g> cmaloney: :) :) :)
<mrgoodcat> Test
<jcastro> rick_h_, changing my gravatar back to my normal self = sad
<jcastro> I will miss the sparty helmet
<rick_h_> yea, sucky weekend
<jcastro> well, at least you guys lost too!
<rick_h_> :P
<greg-g> sportball?
<brousch> greg-g: Sportsball championship competition!
<greg-g> :)
<brousch> greg-g: You lost, BTW, whether you care or not
<greg-g> cool
<greg-g> I love it when we lose
<cmaloney> I was really hoping for Michigan And Michigan State to get to the finals and then declare they were done fighting
<cmaloney> then each of the districts could realize that the Hunger Games were a bad idea after all
<cmaloney> and both teams could get married
<greg-g> cmaloney: oh right, gay marriage is ok in Michigan again/now/whatever the right word is
<greg-g> that'd be the biggest sportball story of all time
<cmaloney> They could make a movie or three about it.
<greg-g> "Today, 23 couples married on the field"
<greg-g> cmaloney: you think too small, Hollywould would make this last forever, like copyright.
<cmaloney> greg-g: Well, I mean this summer
<cmaloney> of course.
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> btw, awesome review on archive.org, you now have to make OMC only play the best songs ever.
<cmaloney> "We're doing a reboot of the reboot we just rebooted so we can reboot the universe again because the last reboot wasn't done nearly as well as we thought the reboot should have been done JJ Abrams"
<cmaloney> greg-g: My work is never done.
<cmaloney> ;)
<cmaloney> "Believe only one sock was knocked off, so knocking one star off"
<jrwren> i did it!  http://flukeout.github.io/
<brousch> That one was fun
<cmaloney> http://somafm.com/7soul/
<cmaloney> SomaFM: making me feel more and more like a chump for not donating
<greg-g> wow
<cmaloney> yeah, I've been enjoying the heck out of that station
<cmaloney> "I used to chase girls and beat-em-up" -- The Intruders
<cmaloney> Sounds like it should be a Frank Zappa song
<ColonelPanic001> anyone going to this self.conference thing?
<cmaloney> I'm going to be conferenced out by then
<cmaloney> but I would love to do
<cmaloney> go
<brousch> This Nexus 10 is really nice so far
<ColonelPanic001> I'm registered. Just curious to see the talk list so I can know if I'm looking forward to it or not
<cmaloney> ColonelPanic001: Also: Dragon Go Server. :)
<cmaloney> I'm winning games that I'm clearly losing . :)
<ColonelPanic001> crap. it hasn't notified me in a while, entirely forgot
<ColonelPanic001> thanks
<cmaloney> np
<ColonelPanic001> will do shortly
<jrwren> damn... won't make it into LTS? https://twitter.com/hergertme/status/450708655944376320
<cmaloney> well fuck
<cmaloney> found ojt some rsther lifestyle chsngong news
<cmaloney> aka: J's dad is running oht of $$
<cmaloney> and will be living with us soon
<cmaloney> this will be fun
<rick_h_> ouch
<cmaloney> yeah.
<cmaloney> not a given but damn close
<greg-g> cmaloney: generally sorry for a retired person to start running out of savings, stupid world.
<cmaloney> greg-g: Well, considering it was because some assholes played hot-potato with the economy that we're in this mess in the first place.
<cmaloney> I'm finding that Debt book rather prescient.
<cmaloney> I think the financial industry needs to be paid in bags of dicks
<cmaloney> we could call it "dicidends"
<cmaloney> dickidends
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-04-01
<peruz> Hello hello.
<cmaloney> evening
<peruz> are there signs of the midterm elections in michigan already?
<cmaloney> no idea. We don't watch TV
<peruz> not necessarily on tv:)
<cmaloney> I've pretty much given up on the future of mankind as we know it.
<peruz> michigan is interesting
<cmaloney> :)
<peruz> is somewhere between purple and blue
<peruz> instead of red
<peruz> and theres no incumbent, as democratic senator carl levin retires.
<cmaloney> Well, we've had several high-ranking representatives retire
<peruz> but the GOP is going to have an excellent candidate in Terri Lynn Land, former secretary of state.
<peruz> she coems from an old guard of moderate Michigan Republicans, isntead of the tea party wing that might ahve preferred someone like Jusin Amash.
<peruz> but yeah, likely democratic nominee Gary Peters, should win his primary without serious opposition.
<peruz> and he's kept pace with Land in fundraising
<peruz> the question is whether michigan's modest blue lean si enough to overcome a modestly republican-leaning climate.
<jrwren> neither of my parents have any savings. they live social security check to check. it ain't so bad cmaloney
<cmaloney> jrwren: Well, I think we might have some options at some point
<cmaloney> but I'm really pissed off that some dipshits play fast and loose with the economy and he gets his entire retirement blown to fuck-all
<cmaloney> And the same assholes that tanked the economy are still fucking withi him
<jrwren> yup
<jrwren> did he lose the house?
<cmaloney> pretty much, but they're dragging their heels on it
<Havenstance> Sup guys?
<cmaloney> because they don't want the house.
<jrwren> they didn't drag their heels reposessing my old man's house.
<cmaloney> nicer neighborhood
<jrwren> probably
<cmaloney> If you want to see what the financial fucking has done to a neghborhood, drive through Clinton Township
<cmaloney> Used to be a nicer neighborhood until everyone foreclosed.
<cmaloney> Now it's rubbish
<cmaloney> Just a collection of broken homes and broken dreams.
<Havenstance> Shit all of Detroit is in bankruptcy
<cmaloney> Havenstance: Yeah
<cmaloney> But we're talking 5 years from OK to shitter.
<Havenstance> But I'd guess u all knew that. Sad really though
<Havenstance> Yeah it only ever gets worse before better unfortunately
<cmaloney> An the thing that really pisses me off is nobody, but nobody has had jail time for this
<cmaloney> We closed Enron for less
<Havenstance> Then its us working class who get the middle finger n get beat by the very people we elected and get forced to watch nothing be done about it
<Havenstance> They say its dems or repubs depending on who you ask they have differing beliefs I say its both
<cmaloney> Can't go after the rich, and the poor don't have any money, so who's left? :)
<Havenstance> Sadly enough that's too true
<Havenstance> So please tell me I'm not the only one with irc on my phone lol
<cmaloney> Thing is there's no accountability. Term limits got rid of the dynasties but they also got rid of the accountability
<cmaloney> Havenstance: Does SSH count? :)
<Havenstance> Tried out this app called and chat pretty cool
<Havenstance> I want to do an ssh VPN at home I can access at work :)
<Havenstance> Cmaloney the accountability was gone years ago all the banks knew exactly what they were doing
<Havenstance> Then you got Barack and Michelle blaming everyone else for the problems they have helped create and to think Clinton got impeached for getting a blow job and Nixon for water gate neither got anything on Benghazi
<cmaloney> Outside of the NSA I think Barack has done a decent job
<cmaloney> I don't know enough about Benghazi to speak intelligently about it
<Havenstance> He has done some good but this whole Putin thing is stupid he has cut the military so much we couldn't fight Russia if we wanted to
<cmaloney> And honestly after Bush Jr left office I think Jesus H. Christ would have had a hell of a time righting things.
<cmaloney> Nobody wants a war. Russia knows we can't do shit
<cmaloney> We're both posturing.
<jrwren> cmaloney: shelby twp is the same way. used to be very nice, now its not so much
<Havenstance> Not entirely bush either tho remember the banks collapsed at that time too from greedy ceos not just the president but he may have been able to be more of a solution then a problen
<cmaloney> Problem is we were weak in the Middle East "arab springs", so when Russia is playing AT&T and bringing back the USSR monopoly (talk about tortured metaphors) we have to do something
<Havenstance> But this goes beyond Obama and bush I guarantee you they take orders from someone else anyway
<jrwren> gnight
<cmaloney> Havenstance: I think the regulations that fell during Bush Jr. played a key role.
<cmaloney> jrwren: g'night. :)
<Havenstance> Night man see ya in the am
<Havenstance> Oh I won't argue with that man but I don't think it was one or the other so much as idiots in congress voting in favor
<Havenstance> And I honestly don't think anyone thought the implications would be this bad but those who caused this should be shot for treason
<cmaloney> I prefer the term "restitution". :)
<cmaloney> or Jubilee. :)
<Havenstance> Because that's what nuking and entire city is. Detroit was once the greatest city in the USA now look at her man
<cmaloney> Forgive the debts, or fine the banks to help pay for rebuilding
<Havenstance> But hell man even country music called it years ago.
<cmaloney> Megadeth called it. :)
<Havenstance> That one dude wrote a song about them shutting Detroit down
<cmaloney> Foreclosure of a Dream.
<cmaloney> And that was before the Clinton Internet Bubble.
<cmaloney> (and yes, It hink Clinton was the luckiest SOB for being president during the dot com boom)
<Havenstance> Yup I was thinking of the shutting Detroit down but what killed Detroit was NAFTA never should it be cheaper to build a car in mexico and sell it here.
<cmaloney> NAFTA wasn't Detroit's problem. Detroit made it expensive to build cars here.
<Havenstance> Ask me anything made outside this country should be taxed so that its 3x more to sell it here if its not built here
<Havenstance> The town I live in they packed up the automotive plant moved it to mexico put in a full service kitchen
<cmaloney> I doubt that would do anything other than make Walmart pissy.
<cmaloney> Anywho, I need to hit the hay. Laterness!
<Havenstance> Now they got Mexicans working for three bucks an hour and three square a day
<Havenstance> Later man
<mrgoodcat> Havenstance: check out irccloud. so far the best irc client for phone
<rick_h_> morning
<Havenstance> Morn
<cmaloney> morning
<brousch> yes
<cmaloney> good
<brousch> agreed
<jrwren> good
<jrwren> zomg, that terrible python post I linked yesterday must have been an early april fools joke.
<brousch> Why?
<mrgoodcat> good morning campers
 * rick_h_ would rather be camping
<mrgoodcat> haha it  usually seems preferable to work
<rick_h_> it's the best place to work
<Havenstance2> Time to do something that resembles work I suppose
<Haven|Work> okay so now that I have a clear head on this mrgoodcat you might be able to answer this question for me. Can I install ubuntu13.10 then zentyal 3.4 on one drive add in 2 sata drives and configure softraid for those drives after im in the system? or should I do it from the installer menu?
<Haven|Work> the drive for the OS would be on an IDE Drive that's not part of the array
<mrgoodcat> if the OS is not included in the raid it shouldn't matter
<mrgoodcat> but i think best practices is to get the drives working the way you want before installing anything extra
<mrgoodcat> and doing that from the installer is the best way to do that
<mrgoodcat> but tbh i haven't dealt with it much. I just set up simple raid on install and go from there
<Haven|Work> alright, well now that its tuesday and I'm not ready to kill someone. I'll try to configure it and see what happens.
<mrgoodcat> haha
<mrgoodcat> i believe in you Haven|Work
<Haven|Work> i believe in me too, just friday sucked lol.
<cmaloney> Heh, there's a new From Python Import Podcast
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: did google give you your GSoC students yet?
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: no, will be a bit. I think it's another 2wk or so for things to finish shaking out
<cmaloney> It'll be after the death match and dancing.
<peruz> Good morning.
<Haven|Work> hm, so apparently i broke the whole thing
<Haven|Work> left friday came in today to a system that won't boot
<Haven|Work> YIPPIE :D
<peruz> good morning mihicigan
<mrgoodcat> Haven|Work: D:
<Haven|Work> good morning peruz
<Haven|Work> mrgoodcat, yeah someone unplugged it and the CMOS battery is bad
<mrgoodcat> o gfd
<peruz> I looked at how players played in a given year under a given manager and compared to how we expected them to play based on their past and future performance; not just dugout decisions
<Haven|Work> BIOS Reset and now it won't boot from USB or any HDD
<mrgoodcat> who would do that?
<peruz> oops wrong channel
<peruz> how are you guys?
<mrgoodcat> nbu?
<Haven|Work> peruz, living the dream man
<Haven|Work> mrgoodcat, Custodian hit the cord, probably didn't think it was for anything
<Haven|Work> Its all tore apart looks like a pile of junk so he probably unplugged it thinking I forgot
<mrgoodcat> id be so pissed
<mrgoodcat> on a related note, get a new cmos battery
<Haven|Work> Gonna have to tell him later today when somethings plugged in in my office leave your filthy paws off it
<Haven|Work> mrgoodcat, yup already did lol
<Haven|Work> I knew the battery was bad but didn't think someone would be dumb enough  to unplug something clearly labeled SERVER
<Haven|Work> now nothing has any intarwebz anywhere thanks to that stunt, Had to put routers in to take the place of the server for now until I got everything else working right
<jrwren> for consistency in python it feels like I should be able to for m in inspect.getmembers(a) if inspect.ismethod(m[1]):
<jrwren> err.
<jrwren> it feels like I should be able to for a in l if cond:
<jrwren> just like I can in an expression.
<jrwren> [for ain l if cond] works, but for a in l if cond: doesn't :(
<rick_h_> the if needs to be forced into an iterable state.
<rick_h_> can you lambda that?
<rick_h_> hmm, anything else you do will be more overhead/longer than wrapping it in []
<Haven|Work> I love this maintenance guy.... damn water head
<Haven|Work> mrgoodcat, he says "I unplugged that machine because there were 3 already plugged in and 4 is way to many to run in one room"
<mrgoodcat> well you wouldn't want to waste power
<Haven|Work> yeah lol
<Haven|Work> oh well, I'm sitting up here working on getting it going now. One of the girls that works in the office just got in a wreck the head secretary's daughter....
<mrgoodcat> but seriously... that's really bad. our janitor doesn't even come in my office anymore. she's afraid to touch anything and incur my wrath
<Haven|Work> yeah I ripped him a new one
<mrgoodcat> so i clean my own office
<Haven|Work> basically told him if that door is locked stay the hell out, don't care if you do have a key
<mrgoodcat> which means i have a very messy office
<Haven|Work> I gotta dump the trash.... yeah I can get that, you stay out.
<Haven|Work> still can't get the damn thing to boot
<Haven|Work> Bingo
<Haven|Work> usb legacy support defaults to off, then it wont boot from USB Flash drive
<cmaloney> Afternoon
<greg-g> not quite
<Haven|Work> howdy
<rick_h_> party
<Haven|Work> almost
<Haven|Work> not quite quittin time yet
<jrwren> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-7524
<Haven|Work> This shit takes forever and a day...
<Haven|Work> built a 2tb RAID1 with mdadm almost half done building and it has been going all day lol
<greg-g> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-7524
<jrwren> this is why I like LVM
<jrwren> greg-g: I just linked that :)
<greg-g> DANGIT
 * greg-g is slow
<jrwren> i'm pretty sure its a joke
<greg-g> yeah
<greg-g> no link to vote results
<greg-g> "I would like to point out that the new community dynamic for git-based projects is different in many salient ways from a traditional subversion project. Voting in private, or even decisions by fiat of the chair, are most welcome in the new regime. It is good to see the subversion project embrace this new mode of project development in their smart exodus from the chains of the past. "
<jrwren> lol
<jrwren> mental note: you don't want to try to use a @classmethod as a decorator.
<jrwren> something doesn't work right. I'm not sure what, but it just doesn't.
<Havenstance> Yawn!!!!!!
<mrgoodcat> Havenstance: how did it work out today?
<Havenstance> idk, when i was done working it was still building the array :)
<Havenstance> I did the array with Mdadm after the install
<Havenstance> since I was putting the install on a separate drive anyway
<mrgoodcat> Well let me know. I offer my admittedly limited experience if you need it
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-04-02
<Havenstance> will do man :)
<Havenstance> I got my ProLiant back, getting ready to set it up here at home with zentyal.
<Havenstance> I'm thinking about doing Dual NICs one being for the home subnet the other being for wireless clients, like the Wii, and the droid phones. Gonna be interesting to see how it plays out :)
<Havenstance> hello gamerchick02
<gamerchick02> howdy Havenstance!
<Havenstance> its sooo early but yet im so tired...
<gamerchick02> i've decided to walk more. so yeah i'm tired too
<Havenstance> I've been chasing my one year old around all night
<Havenstance> today's the day she learned to walk... now nothing is safe....
<gamerchick02> hah!
<Havenstance> i tell my mother
<Havenstance> she says well good, now I hope she's just like you were
<Havenstance> Damn curse
<gamerchick02> LOL yeah
<Havenstance> mrgoodcat, amazing how much difference this makes on an actual server
<mrgoodcat> Is it working now?
<Havenstance> yeah, raid is up and running
<Havenstance> no quirks at all
<Havenstance> only problem is its not recognizing the Onboard NIC now like it was before. but should be something I can fix momentarily
<mrgoodcat> Hmm is it listed in lshw or lspci?
<mrgoodcat> Not sure which it would show up in
<Havenstance> running them now
<Havenstance> its showing up in both places
<Havenstance> it just didn't get DHCP for some reason
<Havenstance> I have 3 nics all 3 show up
<mrgoodcat> Hmm
<Havenstance> what's the restart network command again?
<Havenstance> sudo service networking restart?
<mrgoodcat> Yes
<Havenstance> hung for a second but now its restarting it....
<Havenstance> it saw it all through the install with no problem
<Havenstance> seems like I had this problem the other day when I installed Xubuntu
<mrgoodcat> Probably missing a binary driver
<Havenstance> something is up with the networking
<Havenstance> shows networking stop/waiting
<Havenstance> no start
<Havenstance> but its running, ifconfig shows no IP
<mrgoodcat> Why do you keep having so many problems?
<Havenstance> this is just with 13.10 ubuntu
<Havenstance> not even zentyal yet
<mrgoodcat> You're probably missing a driver for the 3rd nic
<Havenstance> however this server is an ML110 1st gen server
<Havenstance> not really the most current situation
<mrgoodcat> They aren't all the same manufacturer right?
<Havenstance> no they are different
<Havenstance> one is linksys, one is broadcom, one is netgear
<Havenstance> its the onboard HP Broadcom Gigabit Ethernet that is not getting an IP now but it was during install
<Havenstance> hm, gonna try a cable in eth1 or eth2 if I can get it to grab a dhcp i'll install zent and deal with it from a gui where I can read the logs & see what's going on
<Havenstance> what kernel version is 13.10 on?
<mrgoodcat> I'm not suee
<mrgoodcat> Sure
<Havenstance> mrgoodcat, if auto lo is listed before eth0 in /etc/network/interfaces could that cause a problem?
<mrgoodcat> I think its 3.8
<mrgoodcat> No
<mrgoodcat> That shouldn't be a problem
<Havenstance> sudo ifdown -a outputs a line of code then the words DHCPDISCOVER on eth0 to 255.255.255.255 on port 67 interval 3
<Havenstance> I might try a different router to be honest
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> morn
<cmaloney> I had an idea that I'm sure someone is already attempting
<cmaloney> but if not I'd like to make a feature request to the universe
<cmaloney> Someone figure out how wrap a Java Applet in a HTML5 canvas so you can have the applet run on a server somewhere and the wrapper can act as some form of VNC connection
<cmaloney> that is all
<Havenstance> I'm out for a bit, I'll see you guys in an hour or so.
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: why?
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: So I don't have to install Java on my browser. :)
<mrgoodcat> haha
<mrgoodcat> i thought you meant as a dev
<mrgoodcat> i was gonna say just port your application to a better stack
<mrgoodcat> but i suppose as a user you don't have much choice
<cmaloney> yep
<mrgoodcat> lol i don't usually think of ASF as a particularly humorous organization but they had my favorite april fools yesterday
<jrwren> scribd is a pay-for library?
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: which?
<mrgoodcat> the switch to using git for the svn project
<mrgoodcat> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-7524
<jrwren> yeah, I linked that too :)
<jrwren> <3 it
<jrwren> infoq picked it up as a real story
<jrwren> http://www.infoq.com/news/2014/04/svn-migrates-to-git
<jrwren> before the "update" it said "it sounds like a haox, but it s not"
<jrwren> hahahahah
<cmaloney> jrwren: Scribd is utter shit
<jrwren> why?
<cmaloney> A) They make you log in to download content
<cmaloney> B) They make you log in to report content
<cmaloney> C) They (at one time) made you have to upload something to download something
<cmaloney> So they tend to get a lot of material that they don't have the rights to distribute.
<cmaloney> http://decafbad.net/2009/05/27/scribd-your-moment-of-zen/
<cmaloney> jrwren: in short, they are recipients of the coveted "nuke it from orbit, it's the only way to be sure" award.
<jrwren> huh, weird.
<cmaloney> remember the old pirate BBses? Their behavior is a mirror of those days.
<jrwren> how do they get away with it?
<cmaloney> jrwren: DMCA compliance.
<jrwren> jcastro: what is your new relationship with IBM?
<cmaloney> http://blog.canonical.com/2014/04/02/shutting-down-ubuntu-one-file-services/
<cmaloney> Big surprise.
<brousch> Is it?
<jrwren> what they SHOULD be announcing is open sourcing of all related apps, so that community could run different U1 providers.
<brousch> It says they are open sourcing U1
<jrwren> and that U1 apps could be modified to use varying U1.
<jrwren> it does?
<jrwren> YAY!  win for us all!
<brousch> "we continue to believe in the Ubuntu One file services, the quality of the code, and the user experience, so will release the code as open source software to give others an opportunity to build on this code to create an open source file syncing platform."
<cmaloney> It means get your shit off our servers.
<jcastro> you have until July to get it off
<cmaloney> Already there.
<cmaloney> 4GB of music that I purchased.
<brousch> geez
<cmaloney> and frankly, it was a long time coming
<rick_h_> jrwren: can get a few of those firebox things that have massive storage to start up U2Files
<cmaloney> Probably someone at Canonical received the annual bill and said "Shit! I completely forgot about that!"
<cmaloney> ;)
<jrwren> oh, its music and files only. U1 SSO and U1DB are not affected.
<cmaloney> Or 7Digital had a renewal come due
<Haven|Work> ughh :(
<Haven|Work> need MOAR coffee
<Haven|Work> day 2 of non smoking...
<Haven|Work> = no fun
<jrwren> always moar coffee
<mrgoodcat> big biggby
<mrgoodcat> BIGgby
<brousch> They looked at what it would cost to compete with Google's new low, low price and said fuckit
<cmaloney> brousch: I think it's the last vestiges of the "We need to be Apple on the Desktop" phase.
<cmaloney> now we're in the "We need to be Apple / Android" phase on mobile. :)
<mrgoodcat> U1 was bleeding money probably
<mrgoodcat> i don't know a lot of people that used it
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: I used it
<cmaloney> UNfortunately there were a few problems with it early on
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: not strictly true. because neither android nor apple have the same level of convergence in mind. maybe apple... idk what goes on in that place
<cmaloney> Mostly because (speculation) they were abusing CouchDB.
<mrgoodcat> speculation that they use couchdb? or speculation about the abuse?
<cmaloney> And CouchDB was not designed to be a mass-scaling synchronizing solution
<cmaloney> speculation on the abuse part.
<cmaloney> They were running desktop couch for a while.
<cmaloney> on the client
<cmaloney> For contact syncing and such
<mrgoodcat> hmm
<cmaloney> and I think early on Ubuntu One was using it for file sync as well
<cmaloney> which was part of the reason my files took the early part of a century to sync. ;)
<mrgoodcat> i wish backblaze would support linux
<mrgoodcat> achievement unlocked: used python 3 in production
<jrwren> O_O congrats.
<brousch> mrgoodcat++
<mrgoodcat> :)
<mrgoodcat> it helps that i just started python so i don't have any py2 habits
<brousch> Habits aren't the problem. 3rd party lib support is
<mrgoodcat> i started a pet project in 2 but quickly realized it was a bad idea to start in 2 when 3 is out so i quickly ported it and i've done 3 only since then
<mrgoodcat> yea i've found that
<mrgoodcat> also tutorials and such are all geared at 2
<brousch> True
<mrgoodcat> and community support. in #python i have to specify that i'm using py3. otherwise i'm likely to get an answer that is py2 specific
<mrgoodcat> and a lot of people upon hearing you want py3 say 'i dunno then'
<brousch> nice
<mrgoodcat> i dont mind though. It's probably a good thing that i'm being forced to work through some of these issues on my own. It promotes independence of thought and makes me really understand what I'm doing instead of copy pasting some code snippet or common pattern
<Haven|Work> mrgoodcat, I know that feeling :)
<brousch> I use about 1/3 Python 3 right now
<Haven|Work> mention zentyal in #ubuntu-server once :)
<jrwren> i wrote my first non trivial module which runs on both 2.7 and 3.4, but it looks like i"m going to pull a 2.x only dep, so no 3.x of me
<Haven|Work> I don't have any complaints about zentyal other then that damn PCMANFM not working at all in 3.4
<mrgoodcat> jrwren: what dep?
<mrgoodcat> just for the at
<mrgoodcat> cat*
<jrwren> internal
<mrgoodcat> ah
<mrgoodcat> nvm then
<mrgoodcat> that's a bitch
<mrgoodcat> is python3 significantly faster for similar workloads?
<mrgoodcat> or is it mostly just a code restructuring?
<jrwren> its much slower for certain workloads.
<jrwren> no, its not significantly faster.
<jrwren> it really has very little benefit, which is one reason it hasn't been adopted quickly
<mrgoodcat> hrm
<jrwren> fixing language warts that devs already know how to work around isn't a very compelling upgrade case.
<mrgoodcat> that's a shame
<jrwren> 3.4 changes things a bit with async. Now we have built in async IO.
<jrwren> but built-in is hte only benefit. twisted and gevent and tornado and so on have been around for a long time.
<mrgoodcat> yea i saw that on /r/python
<jrwren> so "why 3.x" is a touch question to answer.
<jrwren> if there were a good answer, I'd be urging my team to adopt it much more quickly.
<mrgoodcat> the new unicode literals are nice
<mrgoodcat> i guess not entirely necessary but still nice
<brousch> Bah, unicode is for foreigners
<brousch> All we need is ASCII
<mrgoodcat> ah
<mrgoodcat> GET OFF MY LAWN
<jrwren> unicode literals are in 2.7
<mrgoodcat> AND TAKE YER FOREN CAR WITH YA
<jrwren> u'hello world' != 'hello world'
<mrgoodcat> but in 3 they are ==
<jrwren> in 2.7 they are equal, because python does a smart compare.
<jrwren> but they are different types :)
<jrwren> in 3 they are the same type.
<mrgoodcat> the difference between them has been done away with
<jrwren> 3 introduces byte literals.
<jrwren> and 2.7 has them for compat
<jrwren> so b'hello' is a str in 2.7, but a bytestring in 3.x
<jrwren> err... its class bytes
<jrwren> huh... i never noticed it class not type.  interesting
<mrgoodcat> http://www.diveintopython3.net/strings.html <-- this is where i've been referring to for anything related to py3 strings
<jrwren> good idea.
<mrgoodcat> remember when bookiebot/slevin was crashing on unicode strings?
<mrgoodcat> that problem automagically fixed itself when i switched to py3
<mrgoodcat> i also fixed the 2.x version, but it was still nice to be able to immediately see an advantage of py3
<jrwren> python3 also supports unicode symbols
<jrwren> æ·±å¥ = 1; print(æ·±å¥)
<jrwren> works
<mrgoodcat> yerp
<jrwren> python2 says "syntax error"
<jrwren> :(
<mrgoodcat> which is helpful in irc bots :)
<jrwren> oh?
<mrgoodcat> since people like to do weird things like flip tables
<mrgoodcat> and shrug
<jrwren> oh, I think python2 supports it in unicode values.
<jrwren> you can x= "æ·±å¥" just fine in py2
<mrgoodcat> Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯
<mrgoodcat> you can always 'from __future__ import unicode_literals'
<jrwren> indeed. probably should always do that.
<mrgoodcat> also i like the new division operators
<mrgoodcat>  / always returns a decimal approx
<mrgoodcat>  // returns the floor
<mrgoodcat> the old one gave ambiguous values
<mrgoodcat> it returns the floor of the mathematical result of division if the arguments are ints or longs, but it returns a reasonable approximation of the division result if the arguments are floats or complex.
<mrgoodcat> too much to think about when i'm trying to do simple division
<jrwren> yup
<jrwren> trouble is, that breaks a TON of code out there.
<mrgoodcat> lol yea...
<mrgoodcat> but it's still nicer
<mrgoodcat> its the javascript problem
<mrgoodcat> so many incredibly stupid mistakes in javascript are forever part of the language now because code depends on its eccentricities
<jrwren> true
<mrgoodcat> === !== == != wat
<mrgoodcat> false == 'false'   // false
<mrgoodcat> false == '0'       // true
<mrgoodcat> wat
<mrgoodcat> and so on
<mrgoodcat> (â¯Â°â¡Â°ï¼â¯ï¸µ â»ââ»
<mrgoodcat> false == undefined // false ; false == null // false ; null == undefined // true
<mrgoodcat> ^^ that one is a personal favorite of mine
<mrgoodcat> javascript logic is literally broken
<jrwren> logic on null is always weird.
<jrwren> null is special
<mrgoodcat> javascript is special
<jrwren> its not that different from SQL
<mrgoodcat> but not in the way that your parents tell you you're special
<mrgoodcat> in the special class way
<mrgoodcat> javascript rides the short bus to your browser
<brousch> rick_h_: Does your N10 take forever to charge?
<rick_h_> not sure, I tend to charge things over night
<rick_h_> never really tracked it
<brousch> Hm, I'll have to try the official charger instead of this phone charger
<brousch> I'm getting 5%/hour with this thing
<jrwren> um, yeah.
<jrwren> sounds like using an iphone charger on an ipad.
<jrwren> you need more current.
<jrwren> you need a 2A charger.
<jrwren> your phone charger is likely only 1A or .5A
<rick_h_> yea, 2A all the way
<brousch> 5V 0.7A
<jrwren> CALLED IT!
<jrwren> You might want to NOT use that with a tablet at all.
<rick_h_> yep
<jrwren> it could reduce the life of the battery.
<cmaloney> Hm, so I think I need to find a 2A charger
<cmaloney> all of my plugs are 1A
<greg-g> http://autonomo.us/2009/05/15/file-synchronization-services/
<rick_h_> greg-g: heh, haven't seen iFolder in a long long time
<greg-g> yeah, that post was from 2009 :)
<greg-g> I'd mention git-annex now, instead
<jrwren> nothing listening at ifolder.com
<jrwren> sure, it was gplv2
<jrwren> until all the source was deleted
<jrwren> zomg, its still maintained. out on sourceforge.
<jrwren> i had no idea.
<greg-g> hah
<greg-g> nice
<jrwren> must. stop. browsing. http://sourceforge.net/p/ifolder/code/HEAD/tree/trunk/ifolder/src/UI/Windows/
<Haven|Work> I hate dealing with the pediatrics up here
<jrwren> :(
<Haven|Work> doctor tells my fiancee that our daughter must get this lead test at 1 year old or the insurance will be cancelled.
<Haven|Work> Called the insurance company and they stated that was false, a lie, and grounds for insurance fraud against the doctors office.
<greg-g> wow
<jrwren> O_O
<greg-g> do it
<jrwren> time to get a new doctor.
<greg-g> and make the old one get sued
<Haven|Work> so of course, I call them and they completely deny evertyhing while I was sitting in the room and heard the doctor say this.
<greg-g> seriously
<jrwren> Thanks Obama
<Haven|Work> When I mentioned Fraud their ears perked right up
<Haven|Work> funny thing is, I don't even have Obama care, or medicaid
<jrwren> time to start recording all conversations with anyone from the office.
<Haven|Work> I have BCBSM from my work
<jrwren> BCBSM is obamacare.
<jrwren> :p
<greg-g> oh jay
<greg-g> :)
<jrwren> it is.
<Haven|Work> yeah but I had the plan before it :)
<Haven|Work> I was one of the lucky few who "got to keep my current healthplan"
<jrwren> no you didn't. the plan changed. ACA demanded the plans change.
<jrwren> and I know BCBSM changed ;p
<jrwren> i'm not saying it is good or bad.
<Haven|Work> yeah the price went up bo almost 200 a month too
<jrwren> I just like the "Thanks Obama" saying. I think it is funny
<jrwren> you are up north aren't you?
<brousch> jrwren: You got the second part of the charger right too: official one is 5V 2A
<Haven|Work> jrwren, yeah Traverse City
<Haven|Work> bout smack between Cadillac and Traverse City on US-131
<jrwren> yay me.
<jrwren> Haven|Work: how far to Bellaire?
<brousch> YOU ARE THE SMARTEST MAN IN THE WORLD
<jrwren> brousch: hahaha. no. i've just seen phone and pad chargers before.
<mrgoodcat> Haven|Work: i drive right by you fairly regularly
<mrgoodcat> jrwren: if someone tells you you are the smartest man in the world, you say yes
<jrwren> i don't like agreeing with lies.
<jrwren> oh, at least an hour to bellaire. :(
<cmaloney> Wherein jrwren is known as the Fresh Prince
<brousch> fife lake?
<jrwren> cmaloney: i wish!
<brousch> Huh. I zoomed into Fife Lake and it has an airport icon in the middle of it. WTF? I click and it's a seaplane base.
<brousch> That would be a cool way to commute
<Haven|Work> jrwren, im probably half hour to 45 minues from Bellaire
<Haven|Work> brousch, Fife Lake is a ten minute drive north
<Haven|Work> I live in Manton, MI
<Haven|Work> little butthole town in the middle of nowhere that was crippled by that Freeway Bypass
<brousch> Too bad. fife Lake looks awesome
<jrwren> when I drive through, I'll tell my kid its Radiator Springs.
<Haven|Work> jrwren, yeah, Manton pretty much is Radiator Springs.
<Haven|Work> brousch, Fife Lake isn't too bad as the Highway doesn't really run too far away its not express that far north
<Haven|Work> mrgoodcat, how often you get up this way?
<mrgoodcat> i have a house in gaylord
<mrgoodcat> so fairly often
<mrgoodcat> i have to pick up $gf in lansing on the way
<mrgoodcat> so 131 is a straight shot
<Haven|Work> sounds like a blast :0
<Haven|Work> god support in #zentyal is horrible.... ask a question an hour later no response
<mrgoodcat> oh i had 131 and 127 mixed up
<Haven|Work> they really should throw some project devs in there
<mrgoodcat> i actually don't go by you
<mrgoodcat> :/
<Haven|Work> mrgoodcat, only about half an hour to 127 from my house
<mrgoodcat> not too bad
<Haven|Work> Houghton Lake is about 25mins to a half hour depending on the traffic
<Haven|Work> winter time that doubles cuz M42 between manton and lake city is severely neglected
 * Haven|Work can't drive 55 either so if you do add about 10 extra minutes :)
<Havenstance> time to test out the new network :)
<jrwren> zentyal is the kind of project that I don't think I'd use unless I was willing to dive into the source and figure it all out.
<Havenstance> for the most part it drops right in
<Havenstance> but some things are buggy as shit
<Havenstance> as i'm finding out the hard way :)
<Havenstance> however I'm using the community edition I'd imagine that the commercial products are quite better
<Havenstance> holy dickballs
<Havenstance> mrgoodcat, idk what I did, but Samba is being a good kitty and playing nice with Winblows :)
<mrgoodcat> Havenstance: that's literally the point of samba
<Havenstance> mrgoodcat, yes but my experience with all of this, when something works, something else breaks xD
<mrgoodcat> haha
<mrgoodcat> truth
<Havenstance> so far though, I'm able to communicate with everything
<Havenstance> and there's the broken part
<Havenstance> instead of 2.0tb shared drive shows up at 226gb
<jrwren> ouch
<Havenstance> fuck this
<mrgoodcat> woah...
<mrgoodcat> thats weird
<Havenstance> im doing it the way I know how, tired of wasting time on his shit
<Havenstance> i'll make it show up as 2.0tb but he's gonna have to enter a LUKS password
<mrgoodcat> dumping zentyal?
<Havenstance> no way
<Havenstance> I'm in too deep now, and its personal :)
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> what are you not doing then?
<Havenstance> shit canning the Encryption
<Havenstance> because everything works
<Havenstance> up until the point its encrypted
<Havenstance> unencrypted storage but I'll encrypt the main drive
<Havenstance2> but there is no way im dumping zentyal
<Havenstance2> I have two machiens running this now
<Havenstance2> if i feel like giving him encryption i'll use truecrypt or something
<Havenstance2> actually, its not the encryption its not zentyal, the IDE Port on this Mobo is faulty... its missing parts....
<Havenstance2> oh well
<Havenstance2> Time to go to the Staples
<mrgoodcat> rly...;
<brousch> IDE?
<brousch> What is this, 2005?
<jrwren> 1995
<mrgoodcat> oops,,,
<Havenstance2> mrgoodcat, his new million dollar solution. raid1 two flash drives so he has a backup and run zentyal from a flash drive.....
<Havenstance2> needless to say I talked him out of that one lol
<Havenstance2> basically I said, no way in hell am I doing that. Its a headache I don't want to deal with
<mrgoodcat> why?......... just why?
<mrgoodcat> what purpose could that possibly serve?
<Havenstance2> you mean besides saving him money from buying a real server
<Havenstance2> none
<Havenstance2> nothing but un needed headaches
<Havenstance2> but do you know if zentyal will notify you of a problem with the raid?
<Havenstance2> like if you lose a disk or something?
<mrgoodcat> not sure. i'm sure you could get that set up tho
<mrgoodcat> maybe not in zentyal but it is also ubuntu server underneath
<Havenstance2> cuz really he wants the system to email him if there is a problem with a disk, since its configured for RAID if he know's there a fault its simple as getting a new 2.0tb disk partitioning it like we have making it part of the array dropping it in and one should mirror to the other. idk how exactly it will work but it has to be safer then his flash drive idea.... lol
<Havenstance2> install is scooting along so much faster now
<Havenstance2> 20 mins vs 2 hrs
<cmaloney> Evening
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-04-03
<cmaloney> Wondering if we have some MySQL folks behind widox
<widox> heh, yeah.
<widox> it is funny to overhear
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> Sheesh, what is the most important questions?
<cmaloney> Sounds like part philosophy, part DBA.
<Havenstance_> it might be to early to party but my home server just came back up
<greg-g> hmm, first time ever with a phone that has a sim card, what to do with the tiny ass pin it came with to open the sim card slot? The hole on the phone is smaller than the paperclip on my desk.
<mrgoodcat> greg-g: magnet
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea, you have to use a tool for it. They annoyingly did that
<greg-g> hmmm, not a bad idea
<greg-g> the magnet one
<greg-g> but yay, nexus 5
<greg-g> moving up in the world
<rick_h_> woot
<cmaloney> rick_h_: D00000d
<cmaloney> where were you? :)
<cmaloney> (also: glad you're OK)
<cmaloney> Morning
<rick_h_> morning
<brousch> yo
<rick_h_> almost alive today, let's see how long that lasts
<brousch> I predict it will last approximately 15 hours and 54 minutes
<rick_h_> could you setup a countdown clock for that please?
<rick_h_> I want to keep an eye on that
<cmaloney> Set an appt. on your calendar. :)
<rick_h_> bah, trying to make brousch do the work
<rick_h_> couldn't he at least invite me to the event?
<brousch> The event will occur at midnight, when today becomes yesterday
<rick_h_> brousch: widox waf cmaloney mrgoodcat trevlar I need t-shirt sizes from you all
<rick_h_> _stink_: jrwren derekv jcastro lmorchard smoser ^ as well please
<smoser> what is happning  yesterday?
<rick_h_> smoser: need a t-shirt size for you
<smoser> L
<brousch> XL
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: for what?
<mrgoodcat> L
<rick_h_> so I properly size your hanging death trap :P
<mrgoodcat> haha
<brousch> Crap, I mean S
<mrgoodcat> CHC or MUG?
<cmaloney> Neither
<cmaloney> super-secret project. :)
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: i see your face on my google search
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: ruh roh, ignore that imposter
<mrgoodcat> just searched "git code review" and one of your g+ posts is on the first page
<cmaloney> heh
<rick_h_> he gives bad advice
<cmaloney> Sure it wasn't " Studly men in SE Michigan"?
<_stink_> rick_h_: L
<Havenstance> too early...
<Havenstance> mrgoodcat, time to do the happy dance
<Havenstance> Got him to move away from the dinosaur hardware. I get to build a new server :)
<mrgoodcat> oh yea?
<mrgoodcat> nice
<Havenstance> Much nicer then the current setup that's for sure
<Havenstance> it keeps frying my softraid because the board has free standing sata ports with no locking pins so the cables come unplugged
<mrgoodcat> are you going to get a proper server? or just a desktop to repurpose
<Havenstance> that depends on price point tbh
<Havenstance> worst case I get a good i5 or i7 with enough RAM to do what I really need
<Havenstance> i've about had it with working with 32bit systems
<Havenstance> x64 has came so much further then x86 ever thought of going
<Havenstance> What changed his mind was me walking into his office with a pile of parts saying "idk what the hell you want me to do with this, but it wont recognize anything"
<waf> rick_h_: my shirt size is 'M'
<widox> ooh, tshirts
<widox> rick_h_: I'm a M
<Havenstance> mrgoodcat, mind if I ask about the specs on your zent server?
<jrwren> I'm Jammin
<Havenstance> I am now too,
<Havenstance> woke myself up with about 3 cups of coffee in my first hour being here
<jrwren> greg-g: nexus 5?!?!  now they can track you EVEN MOAR!  :)
<jrwren> rick_h_: size L plz.
<jrwren> Havenstance: i'm jealous. I've only had 1/2 cu
<jrwren> Havenstance: what are you doing with 32bit systems?
<jrwren> The only 32bit system I run regularly is an ARMv6 with fp known as raspberrypi :)
<cmaloney> jrwren: heh. :)
<cmaloney> That's tomorrow. :)
<cmaloney> But please jam nonetheless.
<jrwren> imma jam.
<mrgoodcat> Havenstance: nothing crazy. 16G RAM, 120GB SSD, dual Xeon iirc. haven't had to touch it in a long time tho
<mrgoodcat> last thing i did was ssd upgrade and that pretty much consisted of cloning the drive and rebooting
<greg-g> jrwren: yeah.... maybe I'll root it and such
<rick_h_> well, ordered. If I got your t-shirt size then you're set. If not, I have a couple extras. If you want more then by all means. http://teespring.com/bookie1
<rick_h_> if you don't like the color sorry, executive decision
<greg-g> hah! nice! I missed that
 * greg-g keeps tab open to order after this call
<jcastro> I have a 22 inch and a 24 inch monitor looking for good homes
<greg-g> jcastro: are they separable, or have they grown too close?
<jcastro> totally seperable
<rick_h_> lol
<greg-g> :)
<trevlar> rick_h_: last time I was sized for a hanging death trap, they told me I'm a L
<rick_h_> trevlar: cool got an extra for you in L then
<Havenstance> jrwren, boss wanted 32 bit systems
<Havenstance> mrgoodcat, cool just gives me a round about ya know
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Looks awesome (the T-shirt)
<cmaloney> jcastro: if those monitors are free my brother-in-law could use one.
<jcastro> they are free in the sense that I am not moving them around myself. :)
<cmaloney> heh. :)
<jcastro> aka. I won't deliver
<cmaloney> Not even for beer?
<cmaloney> You drive a hard bargain. :)
<jcastro> oh wait
<jcastro> on second though
<jcastro> :)
<jcastro> the 22 can go immediately, the 24 probably next month when I get a replacement
<cmaloney> jcastro: Are you going to be at MUG next week?
<jcastro> I can be
<cmaloney> Should be a good one. Marlon will talk about the infra of Facebook
<cmaloney> http://www.mug.org/
<jcastro> oh! that looks awesome
<jcastro> I know one of their infra guys, the talk should be great!
<cmaloney> Drop this link in your Google Calendar: http://www.mug.org/?page=CiviCRM&q=civicrm/event/ical&reset=1&list=1
<cmaloney> ;)
<cmaloney> Dammit, I think Facebook finally figured out how to get their like button around my routing.
<mrgoodcat> what do you mean by that?
<cmaloney> I had it set up so it would inspect the traffic for facebook.com or fb.me
<cmaloney> unfortunately https breaks that
<cmaloney> so now I'm doing something with dnsmasq
<mrgoodcat> to block the like button?
<cmaloney> Yep
<mrgoodcat> why?
<mrgoodcat> its tiny and doesn't bother anyone... you don't have to click it
<cmaloney> Because i'd rather not have Facebook have a breadcrumb trail of every time my browser loads their bug.
<cmaloney> And before you say "that's hypocritical because Google does the same thing with their Like button": Google likely got me to the page in the first place. ;)
<cmaloney> using Google Chrome.
<cmaloney> or Google Search, Google Plus, etc.
<jrwren> sometimes I wish python focussed on performance: http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.whoosh/944
<jrwren> Havenstance: why would your boss want 32bit systems?  You know Windows Server hasn't shipped a 32bit version in 10yrs!!! Linux shouldn't either :)
<jrwren> jcastro: how much $ for monitors?
<brousch> What's the default python on 14.04? Is it 3.3?
<cmaloney> I thought Windows server was still 32 bit up until recently.
<jrwren> free?!? I'll pick 'em up in 4 hrs :p
<jrwren> brousch: default is still 2.7 AFAIK and python3 is 3.3
<jrwren> cmaloney: nope.
<brousch> bah
<cmaloney> 14.04 is 3.4
<jrwren> cmaloney: 2003R2 was last 32bit windows server
<jcastro> jrwren, the 24 is a nice one, just older, gobs of inputs etc. $75 obo
<jrwren> cmaloney: 14.04 is 3.4?!?! they put it in?
<cmaloney> Just installed it into LXC and it's 3.4
<brousch> The default is 3.4?
<cmaloney> That's what Python3 is telling me
<jrwren> cmaloney: SWEET!!! this is great news!
<cmaloney> Yeah, I'm glad they ported up to 3.4
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: how much do i owe you for the death trap?
<jrwren> cmaloney: I'm SUPER GLAD! this is the greatest news this week.
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: nadda
<jrwren> cmaloney: who did it? someone should blog about how the feature freeze rules were bent for this
<mrgoodcat> no? gift from GSoC or something?
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: unless you want more then order it yourself
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: pretty much
<mrgoodcat> oh cool
<cmaloney> jrwren: Not sure who did it, but glad they did.
<jrwren> cmaloney: did that lxc use ubuntu-server or cloudimg?
<cmaloney> Whatever ships with lxc-start --name trusty -t ubuntu -- -r trusty
<cmaloney> I think it's the server image.
 * jrwren goes to run that command
<jrwren> invalid option -t
<jrwren> my lxc ain't setup :(
<jrwren> oh, that doesn't use an image, it grabs packages and extracts them.
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, I'm on trusty and recently upgraded and have 3.4
<rick_h_> apart from lxc, just desktop image
<rick_h_> but I do have both 3.3 and 3.4 (while python3 goes to 3.4)
<jrwren> NOW i notice https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/trusty/python3-defaults/trusty   3.4 has been tehre since February!
<Havenstance> Jesus i hate the phone lol
<mrgoodcat> jrwren: is it 3.4 by default or is 3.4 just available?
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: default, like cmaloney said.
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: available
<jcastro> jrwren, http://s3hh.wordpress.com/2013/12/12/quickly-run-ubuntu-cloud-images-locally-using-uvtool/
<rick_h_> well, default for python3
<rick_h_> not for bin/python
<jcastro> thank smoser for that one ^^^^
<jrwren> jcastro: uvtool is sweet.
<jrwren> too bad lxc doesn't use cloudimg by default. it would be faster because it wouldn't have to retrieve/unpack/configure all those packages.
<rick_h_> heh, headphones time! the boy has his first friend over to play. The thundering upstairs gah!
<jcastro> jrwren, there are ways to make that suck less
<jcastro> one of our guys has an _awesome_ LXC/btrfs setup
<jrwren> yeah, I just wish it were default.
<rick_h_> jrwren: so juju is using a snapshot thing to do images now I think. Using btrfs or something to snapshot/clone which I guess does new lxc comtainers in seconds
<jcastro> it's basically instant, haven't had time to document it yet though
<jrwren> it can't be that awesome. it is btrfs :p
<jcastro> it is. :)
<jcastro> btrfs ftw.
<jrwren> never.
<jrwren> until they fix their CoW, I'll not run btrfs
<jrwren> well, maybe with SSD
<jrwren> but never with rust
<brousch> That's what I need to know. what is the default python
<brousch> It is 2.7.6 in my new VM
<brousch> weak
<jrwren> i think python2 as default will be around for a long time.
<brousch> Arch aparently has moved to python 3 as default
<rick_h_> brousch: yea they did before I started at canonical
<rick_h_> brousch: and broke a ton of stuff :)
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, the issue is all the python tooling that needs to be ported
<jrwren> rick_h_: yes and even some libs.  boto comes to mind.
<jrwren> anything openstack is python2
<jrwren> and afaict openstack won't move to python3 for a while.
<mrgoodcat> just run 2to3 and you're good right
<mrgoodcat> ~sarcasm~
<jrwren> bwahahahah
<jrwren> OMFG!!! http://www.citusdata.com/blog/76-postgresql-columnar-store-for-analytics
<jrwren> postgresql!
<jrwren> one database to rule them all!
<jrwren> well... almost.  now all we need is easier sharding
<cmaloney> greg-g: I don't care what Last.fm says, we're musical brothers.
<greg-g> cmaloney: :) :)
<jrwren> you guys are on last?
<cmaloney> jrwren: So are you. :)
<jrwren> oh yeah, we are already friends.
<jrwren> but not greg
<greg-g> Phlegethon
<greg-g> the only place online that I still use my old highschool handle
<jrwren> oh, we are friends.
<jrwren> i just didn't know the name :)
<greg-g> :)
<cmaloney> Lastfm: bringing people together who were already together.
<greg-g> :)
<jrwren> i wonder what version of uwsgi is in trusty :)
<greg-g> jrwren: since you were curious before, the team lead of the HHVM work here is giving an internal (but public!) preso right now, and this is the slide that says what we're working on: https://noc.wikimedia.org/~ori/hhvm-slides/#9
<greg-g> "MediaWiki Core" is the main team here, my team, the team that knows all :)
<jrwren> in prep for Jamming: sudo do-release-upgrade -d
<jrwren> greg-g: wow. HHVM!  SWEET!
<mrgoodcat> other than "it exists" i don't know much about HHVM
<mrgoodcat> is it something worth looking into?
<greg-g> mrgoodcat: if you serve php and want a performance improvement, yeah
<mrgoodcat> and if not.... is it interesting enough to look at anyways?
<greg-g> sure
<greg-g> it's a neat thing
<greg-g> converts the php to bytecode, then optimizes that bytecode based on runtime information
<mrgoodcat> why does the slide say port to HHVM
<mrgoodcat> on the HHVM page it's a stated project goal to run all PHP OOTB
<mrgoodcat> so wouldn't that then imply that you wouldn't need to port?
<greg-g> We use Zend stuff
<mrgoodcat> or are you porting to hack?
<greg-g> no, just hhvm
<greg-g> hhvm needs to know about the native php/zend extensions
<mrgoodcat> got it
<greg-g> hack would be neat, but not yet :)
<cmaloney> I really, really really really fucking hate RVM
<greg-g> our devs aren't ready for that yet
<mrgoodcat> so HHVM is like a java style virtual machine?
<greg-g> yeah, basically
<cmaloney> and gemsets are ridiculous pieces of shit.
<mrgoodcat> for running php
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: use something else then
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: I wish
<mrgoodcat> what are you having trouble with?
<mrgoodcat> maybe i can help
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Well, other than having rvm install gems pretty much wherever the fuck it feels like, no problem. :)
<mrgoodcat> haha it isn't istalling them in $HOME/.rvm ?
<cmaloney> I think the biggest issue was not running --default
<cmaloney> because I created a gemset for redmine
<mrgoodcat> in your `rvm gemset use` command?
<cmaloney> yeah
<cmaloney> Since this is only going to be used for one application
<mrgoodcat> i never really mess with gemsets
<mrgoodcat> i just use the default gemset unless i really need a separate one for some reason
<mrgoodcat> although since i no longer use RVM it's a moot point now
<mrgoodcat> why do you have to use rvm?
<cmaloney> was part of the setup
<cmaloney> personally I'd rather be using an LXC container and just let ruby shit the bed in peace.
<mrgoodcat> rvm really is nice if you need it
<mrgoodcat> the problem is that nobody needs it
<mrgoodcat> so few projects require the power of rvm
<cmaloney> Well, the problem with RVM is it attacks the problem from the wrong end
<mrgoodcat> and it's really not worth the trouble
<cmaloney> virtualenv is much better about solving the problem that most folks have.
<mrgoodcat> bundler is the ruby version of virtualenv
<cmaloney> ie: wrap packages, provide an interpreter and get out of the way.
<mrgoodcat> bundler doesn't provide the interpreter
<cmaloney> I thought bundle was equivalent to pip?
<mrgoodcat> ruby interpreter is always centralized
<mrgoodcat> bundle has releated functionality to pip
<mrgoodcat> but not the same
<mrgoodcat> bundler can install gems in the project directory if you want. then running `bundle exec gemname` will run the bundle version of the gem instead of the central version
<mrgoodcat> gemsets are supposed to be a similar functionality
<mrgoodcat> just not stored in the project directory
<mrgoodcat> rvm hides them
<Havenstance> jrwren, not that he wants 32 bit systems, he just wanted to not have to buy a new one and see if we could put something we already have to use doing this.
<Havenstance> But it didn't work, no harm in trying though I suppose
<jrwren> Havenstance: oh! repurpose old shit. Yeah, 32bit is great for that.
<Havenstance> yeah, we have a ton of old machines laying around, boss just recently took over the company and they had some machines from as far back as win95 still in service up until a year ago
<jrwren> wow
<Havenstance> I'm actually thinking of seeing if he'd sell some of them
<Havenstance> old packard bell here I'd love to have for DOS Games like Wolfenstein :)
<Havenstance> http://arstechnica.com/security/2014/04/how-new-malware-is-making-the-internet-of-things-the-windows-xp-of-2014/
<Havenstance> interesting read
<jrwren> i wish operators were line continuations in python
<rick_h_> jrwren: +1
<rick_h_> jrwren: http://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/224e6a/dropbox_introduces_pyston_an_upcoming_jitbased/
<cmaloney> Well, apparently Brendan Eich is no longer Mozilla's CEO
<cmaloney> I'm both relieved and a little disturbed by this
<rick_h_> yea, I'm mixed on it as well
<jrwren> i'm disturbed.
<rick_h_> well I don't mind the mozilla folks, but the okcupid stuff was just rediculous. Being hostile to your users for something in another company is not something I can get behind at all
<jrwren> i don't know what okcupid did.
<jrwren> block mozilla browsers?
<rick_h_> yea, and suggest others on landing there
<jrwren> disgraceful
<rick_h_> including "Internet exploder"
<cmaloney> Well, not directly block, but put up an annoyance
<rick_h_> they were hostile to their users, not a good call at all
<cmaloney> True dat
<rick_h_> but if employees want to have their head and representation to the world at a certain standard I can understand that.
<rick_h_> I'll admit it's not fair, and you should be able to split personal from professional, but we already have a pattern of blurring that at certain levels
<rick_h_> and CEO if a giant very OSS company with very strong 'ideals' fits imo
<cmaloney> I was really hoping it was something along the lines of "Look, I happened to sleep in one too many times, and I have a script that automatically donates to something I hate"
<cmaloney> but then again there's folks that I admine, respect and love that think gay marriage is something that needs to be decided through some convoluted reading of the bible.
<cmaloney> (And of course manage to miss the rather explicit condemnation of things that Christians no longer observe because "we're redeemed")
<rick_h_> yea, I try to leave that part out and just go that companies have personalities pushed by their leaders
<rick_h_> if I mention some companies you'll give them very human personality traits
<cmaloney> Canonical has a personality that's dictated by Mark Shuttleworth? Pull the other one.
<rick_h_> heh and we all know we're discussed, and boycott, and such sometimes
<mrgoodcat> wow pyston is trying to go after c++
<mrgoodcat> "traditional systems languages like c++"
<mrgoodcat> would love to see that kind of performance out of python
<jrwren> zomg samba4 default in trusty
<jrwren> 4.1 even! gaha
<mrgoodcat> jrwren is having a trustygasm today
<mrgoodcat> python and samba? party!
<mrgoodcat> aybody here a twisted gugu?
<mrgoodcat> holy typing
<mrgoodcat> anybody here a twisted guru? *
<brousch> We have some twisted users in GRPUG (#grlug)
<mrgoodcat> i figured out the answer on my own but i'm joining the channel anyways :)
<jrwren> there is no such thing as a twisted guru :p
<mrgoodcat> lol i'm quickly figuring that out
<brousch> I'm thinking specifically of the author of https://github.com/zigg/octothorpe
<cmaloney> Afternoon
<mrgoodcat> i'm reading krondo.com twisted tutorial. it's pretty in-depth and quite informative
<Haven|Home> mrgoodcat, have you noticed that pcmanfm is broken on the little desktop thingy included with zentyal?
<mrgoodcat> no i haven't
<mrgoodcat> is it?
<Haven|Home> i did the apt-get install zenbuntu-desktop for the latest version and pcmanfm does not work in 3.4
<Haven|Home> every istall i've done with this lately has been the case
<mrgoodcat> i installed from zentyal distribution
<mrgoodcat> s/i/my coworker
<Haven|Home> i've asked  in #zentyal and had no luck
<Haven|Home> apparently its symlinked to /bin/true
<Haven|Home> why i have no idea
<Haven|Home> not a huge deal, and deffinately not a deal breaker at all
<Haven|Home> I just installed nautilus and got around that problem
<Haven|Home> just something i noticed across all the apt-get installations i've done, pcmanfm is broken in every single one
<cmaloney> waf: I like how you live dangerously. :)
<brousch> You forgot to back it with Django and MySQL
<cmaloney> Funny enough the Bootstrap CSS is on Pyramid's default template.
<cmaloney> WHich is why I looked it up in the first place.
<waf> please. python is wayy to enterprisey. if you want to be productive you need to use meteor.js
<waf> *too
<cmaloney> PHP with Visual Basic backend
<waf> yikes
<cmaloney> ANd Cobol middleware
<waf> luckily everything is talking SOAP, so interoperability isn't an issue!
<cmaloney> Because nothing says "Hello WOrld" like 50 lines of boilerplate
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-04-04
 * Haven|Home hugs gparted
<Haven|Home> used it, took me 20 minutes to do what i spent all day at work trying to do with the damn text based
<Haven|Home> bbiaf, gonna implement my new working home server <3
<jrwren> twitter: "alfredodeza: TIL PostgreSQL is coming with master-master replication. When I jumped from the couch to celebrate I was told I'm a gentleman"
<jrwren> and... its not true. it was the april fools joke
<jrwren> wtf, samba-ad-dc starting.
<jrwren> it runs a domain controller by default???
<jrwren> tip: remove your lvm snapshots before upgrading ubuntu - they will likely get filled up
<Havenstance> :D
<Havenstance> it lives
<cmaloney> OK< I find it ironic that Microsoft has played better with the community under .NET than any fear-monger could have predicted
<rick_h_> huh?
<cmaloney> And Java got a pass even though they pretty much did everything that was foretold of .net
<cmaloney> http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/04/microsoft-open-sources-a-big-chunk-of-net/
<rick_h_> so now we can go "yay!" to mono apps?
<cmaloney> I'm sure someone will say that it's not 100% free, Microsoft is still evil, and we should burn everything to the ground
<cmaloney> So we should use Java, where Oracle has sued Google for Dalvik.
<rick_h_> well finally got native ubuntu on the air
<rick_h_> just had to stop trying to use the OSX specific install iso
<rick_h_> that's obvious
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> Stop using the thing that we created for just such a purpose
<Havenstance> so microsoft is putting the start menu back in winblows 8.1?
<cmaloney> ALlegedly.
<Havenstance> i must admit im intrigued
<Havenstance> to see how its gonna look
<cmaloney> Considering the way Microsoft has been hitting these backports, I'm sure it'll be 80% there.
<Havenstance> probably like shit knowing microsoft
<Havenstance> but at least they are bringing it "back"
<Havenstance> maybe I can quit using classic shell now
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> morning
<cmaloney> Are we having fun yet?
<rick_h_> nope
<cmaloney> Please to let me know when we should be having fun
<cmaloney> kthx
<mrgoodcat> good morning
<mrgoodcat> and yes i am having fun
<mrgoodcat> just started playing with the _thread and queue modules in py3. Reminds me of go channels except that threads are explicit
<jrwren> good morning
<jrwren> cmaloney: was that a party down reference?
<jrwren> I'm having fun.  i upgraded my primary (only) home server to trusty
<cmaloney> jrwren: Um, not sure what that is. :)
<jrwren> cmaloney: awesome tv show that ran for only 2 seasons a few years ago.
<jrwren> a striving actor best known for a beer commercial where he says "Are we having fun yet?" works a catering company where is often recognized.
<cmaloney> I've been saying "are we having fun yet" for a while now
<cmaloney> I should sue.
<jrwren> indeed you have.
<cmaloney> note: not really.
<jrwren> i don't know why today is the first time I thought to ask you
<cmaloney> Well, since I had an anti-climactic response I'm sure it won't be the last time you ask. :)
<cmaloney> Sorry to disappoint. :)
<jrwren> ha!
<jrwren> one of the things I love about ubuntu is I can do-release-upgrade and allow it to take days and things just keep running.
<jrwren> dpkg-reconfigure ran overnight and was stuck at a prompt.
<jrwren> no big deal. this irssi keeps going. my samba and dhcp and ssh all were still running.
<jrwren> I know of no other OS which does this :(
<cmaloney> related: I really hate when I do an upgrade like that and it gets stuck at 60% or whatever waiting on me to tell it what to do
<jrwren> I don't mind, becuase everything is still working. Its in a tmux window.
<jrwren> It will finish... eventually
<cmaloney> Right, but I'll leave something overnight and wake up to realize that it only did 20 minutes of a 4 hour upgrade.
<jrwren> hahahah, yeah, that does suck
<rick_h_> cmaloney: goes away and computer asks "Are you sure?"
<rick_h_> :P
<cmaloney> every time
<cmaloney> Enough that I get a little neurotic around upgrade time
<mrgoodcat> would be cool to have a cli switch similar to -y in apt-get
<mrgoodcat> accept all windows
<mrgoodcat> for power users
<jrwren> anyone ever have trouble removing full lvm snapshots?  lvremove says the volume is in use, but it is not.
<brousch> Wow. Just ran into the most freetarded person ever in #kivy
<brousch> He refuses to fill out a Google form and use github
<jrwren> so?
<jrwren> google is evil
<jrwren> and so is github.
<brousch> EVERYTHING IS EVIL
<jrwren> everything sucks when you have no team.
<brousch> everything is evil, when we're freetarded newbies
<jrwren> why should a freetard fill a google form and use github?
<brousch> To enter the kivy app contest
<mrgoodcat> .test
<mrgoodcat> oops wrong window :/
<greg-g> brousch: honestly, could you please not use that word
<brousch> But it gets results!
<greg-g> but it's a horrible word for many reasons
<greg-g> lots of horrible words "get results" but are still not useful to say
<brousch> Suggest an alternative
<greg-g> a freesoftware advocate
<greg-g> just like I would not appreciate you saying "retarded" in here
<greg-g> in reference to a mentally handicaped person
<greg-g> but whatever, use dispicable slang terms that are only useful in inciting people and not having a dicussion all you want
<greg-g> just not in here
<brousch> I appologize
<greg-g> thank you, sorry for snapping
<jrwren> wow, so this fool wanted to enter the app contest, but not do what is required to do so.
<jrwren> that is foolish
<brousch> I could understand if we required a Google account, but it's just a form. And how do you contribute to free software these days without a github account?
 * greg-g does :)
<greg-g> MediaWiki + git-annex aren't on github (well, mirrored, but we don't *use* github)
<jrwren> you don't have a github account?
<greg-g> I have one, but don't use it
<greg-g> haven't for a while, that is
<brousch> Is zealot offensive? open source zealot?
<jrwren> no
<jrwren> its a starcraft character :p
<brousch> I need a term that's more hard-core than advocate
<jrwren> absolutist
<jrwren> orthodox
<jrwren> creationist
<jrwren> scientologist
<greg-g> heh
<brousch> Advocating is one thing, but when you make your life more difficult by refusing compromise, it needs a new term
<greg-g> brousch: what would you call MLK?
<brousch> See, advocate seems too weak there
 * greg-g nods
<brousch> That's a good litmus test though
<greg-g> and what would Malcom X be? :P
<jrwren> a freedom fighter
<rick_h_> so RMS is an open source commando?
<jrwren> yes
<jrwren> no.
<rick_h_> works for me
<rick_h_> lol
<jrwren> he hates the term "open source"
<rick_h_> oh right, sorry
<jrwren> he is a free software commando
<greg-g> cammando... no, please no
<rick_h_> lol
<greg-g> he'd probably say comrade :)
<jrwren> please remember to wear underwear
<jrwren> His interview on RT was very good
<cmaloney> There's a difference between being an activist and being an asshole.
<cmaloney> an activist tries to change the world in positive ways that benefit everyone
<cmaloney> the asshole tries to change the world to serve their own selfish interests.
<cmaloney> And there is a fine line between the two
<cmaloney> (with some overlap)
<brousch> activist might be good
<brousch> free software activist
<brousch> To me, that implies a level of action above advocacy
<jrwren> are you imply any of these names mentioned are assholes?
<brousch> And I am comfortable calling MLK a civil rights activist
<akelling> http://linux.slashdot.org/story/14/04/04/1523231/linus-torvalds-suspends-key-linux-developer
<jrwren> old news
<jrwren> and calling that person a keylinux developer... just the lies I expect from /.
<jrwren> key systemd developer.
<akelling> I can agree to that.
<jrwren> but not a key linux developer
<akelling> *sigh* just noticed it took /. a day to post that.
<cmaloney> jrwren: RMS I would consider to be more activist than asshole
<jrwren> cmaloney: agree. I've not seen any assholes mentioned.
<cmaloney> though at times I find him petty and unreasonable.
<cmaloney> but it is unreasonable people that enact change.
<jrwren> i've not heard him be unreasonable.
<cmaloney> I know more about MLK the holiday than I do about MLK the person
<cmaloney> so I'm not one to mane the distinction
<cmaloney> s/mane/make/
<cmaloney> I found the whole GNU/Linux thing to be a bit much
<jrwren> oh yeah, that is a good point.
<jrwren> guess what isn't gnu/linux...
<jrwren> Android.
<jrwren> no gnu in android.
<jrwren> just linux
<jrwren> and I don't think anyone cares to call it BSD/Linux
<jrwren> because that just gets confusing :)
<greg-g> hehe
<brousch> Be careful on the playgrounds in Ypsi http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/index.ssf/2014/04/mystery_pooper_defecating_on_p.html
<ColonelPanic001> it's a dog
<jrwren> yeah?
<brousch> up on the slide?
<jrwren> i'd think the scat type would be dicernable
<jrwren> discernable
 * greg-g looks for his copy of "Who pooped in the woods?"
<brousch> Is google TV still a thing? http://www.groupon.com/deals/gg-asus-cube-with-google-tv
<cmaloney> brousch: I doubt it'll be a thing much longer
<cmaloney> seems like the Chromecast has pretty much subsumed it.
<cmaloney> (or more likey consumed it :) )
<ColonelPanic001> depends on the size of the dog
<ColonelPanic001> some dogs poop like people
<ColonelPanic001> perhaps it's a humanlike dog that likes to climb
<ColonelPanic001> or a dog-human hybrid.
<Havenstance2> YAWN!!!
<Havenstance2> So apparently our POS software tries to capture a signature, if the customer hits cancel at the screen instead of canceling the transaction like it should it asks me if i want to try the capture again, if I click no it processes their card anyway regardless of the fact they just said they wanted to cancel the transaction
<rick_h_> man that /. makes me have a little smile on a friday
<callmeDarwin> POS <perk>  I've been writing POS's for 15 years
<mrgoodcat> is there any good way to make private class methods in python?
<brousch> Why are you so worried about privacy?
<mrgoodcat> i'm not
<mrgoodcat> if it isn't easy i'm not going to worry about it
<brousch> There is only a convention for private. It is not actually enforced
<brousch> __method
<mrgoodcat> but there are some methods in my class that could affect the state of an instance and cause the methods that are meant to be used to return wrong values
<rick_h_> just one _
<mrgoodcat> will that make it private? or just a way to mark methods to stay away from
<rick_h_> convention
<mrgoodcat> ok
<rick_h_> in python you can inspect at get any anything if you want
<rick_h_> but by convention, if it's underscored, use at your own risk
<mrgoodcat> perfect
<mrgoodcat> is that why the thread module was renamed to _thread in py3?
<mrgoodcat> am i supposed to use threading?
<rick_h_> probably
<brousch> Ah, right __ is name mangled
<rick_h_> yep
<rick_h_> threading ftw
<rick_h_> so if you really really wantit you can import _thread as thread
<mrgoodcat> thats what i did
<mrgoodcat> lol
<rick_h_> but it's not exposed any longer as public api
<mrgoodcat> all i needed was to be able to spin a single thread for a reactor loop
<mrgoodcat> so i didn't feel like relearning threading
<rick_h_> heh, well threading, check out asyncio, tornado and twisted have nice reactor loops
<mrgoodcat> no outside deps
<rick_h_> so asyncio then
<mrgoodcat> so i'm stuck writing my own
<mrgoodcat> yea?
<mrgoodcat> not asyncore?
<rick_h_> thought so, looking
<rick_h_> check out https://docs.python.org/3/library/concurrent.futures.html#module-concurrent.futures and
<rick_h_> https://docs.python.org/3/library/asyncio.html?highlight=asyncio#module-asyncio
<mrgoodcat> anyncio is 3.4 only
<mrgoodcat> i'm on 3.3 right now
<mrgoodcat> it needs to run on 12.04
<brousch> Throw that junk away, man, it's an antique!
<rick_h_> ah, sorry thought you were on 3.4
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: ah, then you can pip install it
<rick_h_> but then it's an 'outside dep'
<rick_h_> not sure if it counts if it's eventually not outside
<mrgoodcat> yea i'm not sure if that counts...
<rick_h_> but concurrent.futures is available if it'll do what you need
<mrgoodcat> ok
<rick_h_> simple thread loop
<mrgoodcat> thanks i'll look into it
<mrgoodcat> but tbh it's working right now with _thread so i'm hesitant to screw with it too much
<rick_h_> well, the thing is now if you do update python it can break
<rick_h_> and in a non-obvious way
<rick_h_> but yea, working > *
<rick_h_> the others are FYI and suggestions for a future path
<mrgoodcat> i don't want it to break on a python update...
<mrgoodcat> that would really upset $boss
<rick_h_> yea, thus avoid underscores
<mrgoodcat> gdi
<mrgoodcat> is there an equivalent to start_new_thread(func) in threading?
<rick_h_> jrwren: might know better, I've not used it yet since I'm not py3 bound but I thought he poked at threading some
<mrgoodcat> i'll just rtfd
<rick_h_> http://pymotw.com/2/threading/ ?
<mrgoodcat> so i create an instance of Thread with my function and then t.run() ?
<mrgoodcat> er start
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: yes.
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: if you can, just concurrent futures.  much eaiser
<jrwren> brousch: nice Weird Al ref.
<jrwren> access modifiers are stupid and harmful. never mark things protected or private in any language.
<Havenstance> mrgoodcat, zentyal is up, working, doing everything I need it for :)
<Havenstance> Including hosting teamspeak server....
<jrwren> teamspeak server sounds like a corporate thing
<cmaloney> evening
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-04-05
<Havenstance> jrwren, nah, I run an internet gaming community
<Havenstance> how do i disable this annoying nag screen in xubuntu complaining about the stupid screen saver being b0rked?
<Havenstance> its a vm so I could really care less about the damn screen saver
<tony-smlr> Getting ready to go live! SMLR E122 Video: http://youtu.be/zYzs7bARFTs - Audio: http://live.smlr.us:8000/streaming (4/5/2014 7:30A EDT)
<tony-smlr> We will be chatting in #smlr
<cmaloney> good morning
<rick_h_> morn
<cmaloney> Are we having fun yet?
<cmaloney> Also: Happy Tabletop Gaming day.
<rick_h_> heh, tired
<rick_h_> got up early to get hte camper out of storage
<rick_h_> and bookie went down
<rick_h_> I need to get the servers redone at pycon bad, with monitoring
<cmaloney> LMK what you need help with
<rick_h_> yea, we'll chat. I want to get things up on larger instances, I get a landscape account from work I want to use on the server
<rick_h_> so that'll be fun
<cmaloney> Haven't used Landscape, but that should be interesting to check out
<rick_h_> and get the deployments cleaned up, probably won't get to a full juju/charm'd setup, and need the CI setup again.
<rick_h_> yea, kind of the goals of pycon I think
<rick_h_> get ready to scale the next 100k bookmarks
<cmaloney> Did we hit 100K?
<rick_h_> oh yea, over 104k right now
<rick_h_> https://bmark.us/dashboard
<cmaloney> Woah
<rick_h_>  coming up on 100k unique urls
<rick_h_> and heading jumped over 350 users with bookmarks
<cmaloney> That' pending activations number is way too high. :)
<rick_h_> yea, well that's spam accounts from the start of bookie
<rick_h_> sam has a branch to clean those out that I've not landed/run yet
<rick_h_> so we'll start to actually expire signups that done complete signups within 30 days
<cmaloney> I'd say 7 days
<rick_h_> well technically it expires in 3
<rick_h_> but the gardening to remove is set to 30
<cmaloney> if you haven't figured it out in 7 days then you're not coming back
<rick_h_> can move it around
<cmaloney> Ah, OK
<rick_h_> the code to deal with expired activations doens't exist yet though. Can look at sending a second email or something maybe if it expires. not sure
<rick_h_> had some idea for the concept at the time, but don't recall what it was now years later lol
<cmaloney> Could do a 72 hours reminder activation should the mail not bounce
<rick_h_> yea
<cmaloney> or 24 hours
<rick_h_> yea, leave the features work to the students and try to get the infrastructer some love
<jrwren> jamming!
<jrwren> battery about to die :)
<rick_h_> ruh roh
<rick_h_> backup battery time
<cmaloney> Heh
<cmaloney> jrwren: What are you jamming on?
 * rick_h_ is reminded to pack up his second thinkpad battery for pycon
<cmaloney> Yeah, I need to pack my charger.
<cmaloney> and an extension cord. :)
<waf> i just discovered postgreSQL's geometric functions http://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.1/static/functions-geometry.html
<waf> this is insane. no idea they existed
<jrwren> i'm not really amming :(
<jrwren> waf	
<jrwren> waf: i learned the windowing functions this week.
<jrwren> REALLY SWEET
<jrwren> postgresql really is the greated B ever made.
<jrwren> greatest DB ever made.
<jrwren> stupid lag.
<jrwren> bad home wifi, zomg, it was because microwave was on?
<waf> jrwren: awesome. i have experience with the SQL Server windowing function, but not postgres.
<waf> whenever there's a tricky query i'm trying to figure out, it seems like windowing functions are almost always the answer.
<jrwren> awesome.
<jrwren> sql server is pretty darn great.
<jrwren> but postgresql is just awesome.
<jrwren> arrays, and ranges
<jrwren> and you can do arrays of ranges.
<waf> yeah, i think i've only scratched the surface of postgres. but the surface is all you really need for 95% of applications
<waf> still super-exciting though
<Havenstance> afternoon
<cmaloney> howdy
<cmaloney> anyone jamming?
<Havenstance> cmaloney, define jamming?
<waf> it's an ancient michigan ritual of throwing strawberry jam at each other.
<waf> or maybe https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGlobalJam
<jrwren> mmm... cherry jam
<jrwren> mmm... blueberry jam
<jrwren> mmm... peach jam
<jrwren> mmm... someother michigan fruit jam
<Havenstance> mmmm michigan blueberry jam
<rick_h_> rasberry ftw
<rick_h_> cmaloney: time to convince jsivak to go py 3.4 https://docs.python.org/3/library/statistics.html#averages-and-measures-of-central-location
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Heh
<cmaloney> Evening
<cmaloney> well, almost
<Havenstance> howdy
<cmaloney> Yay tax season
<cmaloney> (Yes, I'm still filling out my taxes)
<cmaloney> I love answers that JoDee gets for her student papers
<cmaloney> I swear if you put something on there like "please copy this sentence to the paper verbatim" they'd mess it up and demand partial credit for the parts they got right.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-04-06
<tjagoda> Ohi
<cmaloney> Hey, if it isn't tjagoda
<tjagoda> Reports of my demise have been greatly exaggerated
<greg-g> that's a name I haven't seen in forever
<tjagoda> I switched back to Ubuntu from Mint so it seemed like a compelling time to pop back around
<tjagoda> lol
<greg-g> heh
<greg-g> I'm on Debian :P
<tjagoda> Taboo! =p
<tjagoda> Is there a release party at Penguicon this year?
<tjagoda> I might actually show up for once
<greg-g> I believe so
<greg-g> I'm also in California now, so really, this channel is no longer for me :)
<greg-g> I got the "us" part though. 1 out of 3 ain't bad.
<cmaloney> There is one at Penguicon on Saturday at 8pm
<cmaloney> In the bar area.
<cmaloney> Also just finished paying for our taxes
<cmaloney> Well, that's a misnomer
<cmaloney> I finished putting our taxes on a credit card. :)
<cmaloney> So much for paying down one's debts.
<cmaloney> (which, btw, I've been listening to using these files: http://www.radio4all.net/index.php/program/64160)
<cmaloney> http://www.unwelcomeguests.net/Debt,_The_First_5000_Years
<tjagoda> I should probably get around to doing the taxes....
<cmaloney> tjagoda: They make it rather easy for you unless you actually want money back
<tjagoda> lol
<tjagoda> stupid roads and guns
<tjagoda> using all my dollars
<cmaloney> Also, I'm Jammin'
<cmaloney> Only because I'm listning to music for upcoming OMC episodes
<cmaloney> I hope brousch didn't buy that Google TV
<cmaloney> Apparently there's rumors of Android TV
<brousch> I did not, but I got 111 reddit karma for posting it
<widox> cmaloney: blarg taxes, just finished mine too
<tjagoda> Delicious reddit karma
<tjagoda> such good
<tjagoda> much amazing
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> party
<rick_h_> ooh writing code feels so damn good
<rick_h_> even tests woot!
<cmaloney> reminder: We have our monthly IRC meeting tonight
<cmaloney> 9pm ET.
<cmaloney> We'll wrap up the Ubuntu Global Jam then. :)
<cmaloney> Which should be rather short. :)
<rick_h_> heh
<jrwren> when I drove by jcastro's house yesterday, i wondered if he still needed to get rid of that monitor
<cmaloney> brousch: So helpful.
<brousch> Now you're on the hook
<cmaloney> I think rick_h_ just destroyed my inbox
<cmaloney> or at least gave me another reason to use the github rss feed.
<rick_h_> sorry, bookie catchup day
<rick_h_> the good thing is it's not that often
<rick_h_> or the bad thing, I guess it can go either way
<rick_h_> cmaloney: shared a planning pycon doc with you as well :)
<rick_h_> in case anything there looks interesting
<cmaloney> cool
<jsjgruber> I'm Jammin with some testing
<mrgoodcat> hey all
<jsjgruber> hi
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-03-30
<brousch> http://techweek.com/detroit/
<rick_h_> party
<_stink_> good morning
<cmaloney> Morning and all that. :)
<rick_h_> heh
<rick_h_> cable guy here yay
 * rick_h_ hates that line heh
<cmaloney> Which line is that?
<cmaloney> The one that goes to your house?
<cmaloney> ;)
<rick_h_> saying "yay" to the "cable guy"
<cmaloney> Well, considering it's a modern miracle whenever they show up I'm sure the "yay" is warranted.
<cmaloney> "Yay, something in our dystopian future is working as I expected and someone has made their way to my house to make my Internet better hopefully please God please"
<jcastro> brousch, huh, I wonder if that show is any good
<cmaloney> jcastro: My "douche" filter didn't go completely off the scale when I read through the speakers.
<smoser> cmaloney, did my email to mug get sent to /dev/null ?
<smoser> or did I (quite posisbly) just miss a response.
<cmaloney> ?
<cmaloney> Ack
<cmaloney> No, we're cool
<cmaloney> I thought I'd left it as such
<cmaloney> Everyone is exceptionally pleased you're talking
<smoser> oh. ok.
<cmaloney> Apologies for leaving you hanging
<smoser> thats good then.
<smoser> no worries
<cmaloney> That's all my fault. :)
<jrwren> you talking cloud-init at mug? cloud-init is my favorite thing.
<cmaloney> And I'm talking about emulators. :)
<jrwren> what is an emulator?
<cmaloney> Stuff like Amiga emulators, Atari 800 emulators
<cmaloney> Atari ST
<cmaloney> old hardware
<cmaloney> MAME
<cmaloney> that sort of thing.
<jrwren> cmaloney: very cool.
<brousch> Have any east siders heard of this? Apparently it's in Ann Arbor https://stratoscard.com/
<_stink_> huh, neat idea
<brousch> Apparently looking for Python devs
<cmaloney> Very cool
<cscheib> huh, wonder if they're the reason we couldn't trademark the stratos name nationwide
<jrwren> why did stratos come up today?
<jrwren> brousch: did Henry email you directly?
<brousch> Yeah, that's why I brought it up
<jrwren> brousch: ha! me too :)
<brousch> I like to poke around these things before I reply
<jrwren> I've followed Henry on twitter for years. Seems like a solid guy.
<brousch> Ha! Well if he thinks I'm a jrwren-caliber developer he's gonna have a bad time ;)
<jrwren> brousch: my wife says "You don't want to work for a wine drinker."
<jrwren> brousch: you are likely far beyond a jrwren-caliber dev :p
<brousch> I still have not written a single test
<brousch> Hey, wait, rick_h_ is a wine drinker!
<jrwren> brousch: WHAT?!?!?!
<jrwren> brousch: lets get on hangouts and write a test together RIGHT NOW
<brousch> Well I wrote one with someone else, but not by myself
<brousch> It was very interesting
<jrwren> brousch: were you driving?
<brousch> No
<jrwren> brousch: so sad
<brousch> I know
<brousch> I'm actually rectifying it right now
<brousch> I have 2 books to read, then I have 2 existing systems to add tests to
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> I think jrwren sells himself short.
<brousch> Part of it is that I've been working on kivy so long. Kivy apps are hard to test
<cmaloney> Pretty sure he's developed three systems before the spoon hits the cereal bowl
<jrwren> brousch: since you are adding it to already written code, do you have Michael Feathers book?
<brousch> I do not
<cscheib> OMG THE SUN IS OUT IN MI
<mrgoodcat> is anybody here particularly familiar with meteor.js?
<cscheib> I have an acquaintance who thinks it's pretty neat
<cscheib> but with the frequency of new js frameworks, it's gotta be annoying to develop in them
<jrwren> meteor has been around for at least a couple of years.
<jrwren> uses a mongodb backend and does *magic* to let you write only JS and some runs on server via node and other runs in client and everything is magical and beautiful.
<cscheib> yup
<cscheib> it looks neat.
<rick_h_> brousch: :P but he works for Uros, not me. So jrwren is safe
<mrgoodcat> i got my problem worked out anways
<mrgoodcat> was being dumb
<mrgoodcat> the ldapjs library was getting in my way with its bad documentation
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-03-31
<jrwren> man, google must be getting desparate, blind recruting emails to the likes of me. :p
<rick_h_> :P
<rick_h_> shouldn't have referred you then?
<jrwren> rick_h_: WHAT!  why you giving google my name?
<jrwren> :)
<rick_h_> heh
<jrwren> you trying to tell me something? :)
<rick_h_> no, just kidding
 * jrwren wipes brow and looks at leankit.  :p
<jrwren> j/k
<rick_h_> psh, leankit time over
<rick_h_> I just wish I could figure out wtf with this laptop scale factor crap!!! ugh
<cmaloney> jrwren: I've gotten a few of them
<cmaloney> Apparently they want me to move there and do sysadmin
<jrwren> cmaloney: oh good, for a moment I thought I was special.
<cmaloney> jrwren: You are special
<cmaloney> None of that imposter shit here
<cmaloney> leave that to the professionals.
<cmaloney> <- me
<cmaloney> pft... jrwren, trying to muscle in on my imposter syndrome
<jrwren> hehe, neither of us can be mountain view imposters
<cmaloney> jrwren: I think you've written more code in your sleep than I have, period. :)
<jrwren> cmaloney: its probably not true. I play starcraft2 in my sleep.
<jrwren> cmaloney: and before that, I was a member of sg1 in my sleep.
<jrwren> that pretty much covers all my dreams for the last 20yrs
<cmaloney> heh
<jrwren> cmaloney: imposters unite! https://twitter.com/bpoetz/status/572952737677242368
<cmaloney> ++
<cmaloney> http://www.retroprogramming.com/2015/03/z80-size-programming-challenge-4.html
<brousch> A good read https://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=2349257
<jrwren> brousch: dude... he paints a picture and then complains about building his freebsd environment all day long. This person done not have a good grasp on reality.
<brousch> BSD is just his example
<jrwren> yeah, i'll ignore that 1 paragraph.
<brousch> The insanity is more evident there. The same process happens on Linux, but is better hidden
<jrwren> brousch: i disagree. Its a solved problem, but let me finish reading. :)
<jrwren> because I just read the complaint about configure, which makes me wonder if he really doesn't know how autotools works or if he is just being obtuse.
<jrwren> ok, i finally got to his point. He is dead on right, I just don't like how he got there :)
<cmaloney> Morning
<jrwren> good morning cmaloney
<cmaloney> I think we read this article a few years back
<cmaloney> at least I think so
<brousch> The author doesn't offer any solutions, but I think Canonical has been trying to enforce some quality on the Linux desktop
<cmaloney> I think you can point to a lot of projects where they have a benevolent dictator
<cmaloney> GNOME, Ubuntu / Unity, Linux, Python
<cmaloney> It's the ones where things are run like a cabal that you start getting into strange territory.
<cmaloney> BSD
<cmaloney> Not sure of KDE's governance.
<jrwren> does freebsd have a BD?
<cmaloney> I'm not aware of one
<jrwren> openbsd had Theo. I don't know that he is benevolent :)
<cmaloney> Apple had Steve Jobs
<cmaloney> I think they've suffered greatly with his passing
<jrwren> every company has a CEO
<jrwren> what you got against TIM?
<cmaloney> Listening to his biography. He was an asshole with taste.
<jrwren> there ya go.
<cmaloney> I like Tim, but I think he's not able to muster up the Jobsian fear
<cmaloney> He's a new-testament CEO
<cmaloney> Jobs was strictly Old Testament
<cmaloney> Or more Greek God. Zeus perhaps
<cmaloney> OK, apparently Node.js forked and now there's io.js
<rick_h_> cmaloney: yep :)
<jrwren> when C programmers don't know C https://github.com/Apple-FOSS-Mirror/Libc/blob/2ca2ae74647714acfc18674c3114b1a5d3325d7d/gen/wordexp.c#L192
<cmaloney> *rolls eyes*
<jrwren> cmaloney: you didn't know about io.js? I thought the drums had been beating on that pretty loudly
<brousch> It's easy to miss if you ignore everything with node.js in the title
<jrwren> ha! true that.
<cmaloney> jrwren: I don't follow anything node.js
<cmaloney> just popped along my peripheral vision
<jrwren> that must be my problem, i follow too many things :)
<jrwren> i've never used node for much, but I follow it a tiny bit.
<cmaloney> Nothing wrong with that.
<cmaloney> http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Galaxy-Note-Edition-Black/product-reviews/B00F3SOHNU/ref=cm_cr_dp_synop?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=0&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending#R2310CHWLKKVD <- I swear every single time I see a review start with "I have a BS in Computers and over 30 years experience" start a review I immediately discount the opinion a few points.
<jrwren> cmaloney: me too!
<cscheib> haha
<jrwren> hahahaha.
<jrwren> and it seems the whole reason he is complaining is he doesn't understand different power output  USB  ports
<cscheib> you're too hyper today, jrwren
<jrwren> cscheib: am I?
<jrwren> cscheib: sorry.
<cmaloney> jrwren: Yeah, I begin bracing myself for the inevitable "50 pin SCSI connectors are far more flexible than USB-C"
<devinheitmueller> I have one of these.  Theyâre pretty helpful:  http://www.amazon.com/AboveTEK%C2%AE-USB-Voltage-Current-Multimeter/dp/B00ICR1UB6/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1427816001&sr=8-4&keywords=usb+amp+meter
<cmaloney> devinheitmueller: That's really cool!
 * cmaloney adds to cart.
<devinheitmueller> Yeah, cheap, simple, gets the job done.
<devinheitmueller> Not terribly accurate, but good enough to tell whether youâre getting 500ma or 2000.
<cmaloney> Yeah, that's all I really need
<devinheitmueller> When I care about accuracy, I use one of these in conjunction with a benchtop meter:  http://friedcircuits.us/tools/50
<cmaloney> right.
<cscheib> jrwren: you've talked quite a bit on other channels, so yes :P
<jrwren> cscheib: :p
<jrwren> cscheib: that awk thing still puzzles me.
<cmaloney> foo
<cscheib> bar
<greg-g> yay https://nthykier.wordpress.com/2015/03/31/jessie-is-coming-the-2015-04-25/
<jrwren> greg-g: YAY!
<brousch> Who is Jessie?
<jrwren> brousch: seriously?
<jrwren> brousch: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ZmJWDp66wkI/TVlNMblSb-I/AAAAAAAAAAw/Nrhq9iMRl-A/s1600/toy+story+3+Jessie1.jpg
<brousch> Ah, I had to click links on the blog post to have a clue that it was about Debian
<brousch> Yeah!
<jrwren> as i listen to people complain about itunes, i wonder what the ipod workflow is like for the ubuntu-phone
<jrwren> does it sync music with desktop ubuntu music app?
<cscheib> Detroit Puppet User Group meeting: https://twitter.com/cjscheib/status/583018935764852738
<cmaloney> Evening
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-04-01
<rick_h_> evening
<cmaloney> How's the day so far?
<jrwren> keep it rocking
<cscheib> are there any worthwhile linux and/or devopsy groups around town other than MUG?  compiling a list of stuff for my Puppet User Group
<cscheib> jrwren: ^^
<cscheib> or jcastro ^^
<cmaloney> There's MDLUG
<jrwren> he said worthwhile :p
<cmaloney> Not sure how DevOps they are but it's another Linux / UNIX group
<cmaloney> jrwren: behave.
<cscheib> well, if he didn't say it, I would have
<cscheib> :P
<greg-g> Another night where beinng serenaded by Mark Lanegan is needed.
<cmaloney> http://www.metalinjection.net/video/zach-hills-drum-stick-pov-cam-might-make-you-puke
<cmaloney> How about this?
<greg-g> nope
<cmaloney> nope nope, or just nope?
<greg-g> don't need a seizure tonight :)
<cmaloney> Actually if you're a drummer you won't have too much trouble seeing what's going on.
<greg-g> yeah, wasn't too bad in that respect, but man, hurt my eyes
<greg-g> and then a switch to a couple QOTSA songs, next in the queue are some Desert Sessions albums
<cscheib> LIke Clockwork is an awesome album
<greg-g> I actually don't have that one yet :/
<cscheib> it's on Spotify, if you have that.
<greg-g> nope
<greg-g> I do like listening to Dave Grohl play the drums
<jcastro> cscheib, not sure, but I might check this out: http://www.meetup.com/AWS-Michigan/
<jcastro> I've never been though
<cmaloney> Happy "Don't Take Anything Seriously" day.
<cmaloney> https://www.gentoo.org/
<cmaloney> OK, this is pretty cool.
<_stink_> hah, nice
<cscheib> jcastro: Chef?  ouch.
<jcastro> ok since everyone keeps asking, no, we're not nuking your puppet install
<cscheib> April 1's an interesting release date, heh
<jrwren> supporting chef and puppet is no different than supporting mysql and postgresql
<jrwren> or supporting sendmail, exim and postfix
<jrwren> they are all really good, so we want to support them all
<cmaloney> jrwren: Ansible, postfix, postgresql
<cmaloney> fixed that for you.
<jrwren> wha?
<jrwren> cmaloney: so opinionated :)
<greg-g> cmaloney: http://www.reddit.com/r/stonerrock/comments/31107t/new_tool_music_leak_they_just_released_a_sneak/
<cmaloney> greg-g: Yeah, I'm holding out until the album is in my hot little hands. :)
<greg-g> I loved the "such polyrhythms" comment
<cmaloney> greg-g: yeah, could see that one coming.
<cmaloney> Also: Subscribed to the Stoner Rock reddit
 * greg-g nods
<greg-g> good stuff
<cmaloney> Might as well. Subscribed to the Epic Metal / Prog Metal / Prog Rock Music reddits
<cmaloney> http://www.reddit.com/r/progmetal <- Still love this mascot.
<greg-g> nice
<cmaloney> http://www.reddit.com/r/progrockmusic <- And this one.
<greg-g> heh, yeah, looks like the same person made all three of those (including epicmetal)
<cmaloney> Yeah
<cmaloney> The Epic Metal one is OK. The other two I want as tattoos.
<greg-g> hah
<greg-g> we just hired another DD at WMF :)
<greg-g> we have a thing for them
<cmaloney> Need a clarification, please.
<greg-g> Debian Developer
<cmaloney> Thank you.
<cmaloney> Mind did not go there directly.
<greg-g> sorry
<cmaloney> No worries. :)
<cmaloney> Figured where my mind went was uncharacteristic for a hiring decision. :)
<greg-g> on another topic: yay! the blinkenlights UI option for offlineimap works again (not sure when it was fixed)
<cscheib> WMF?
<greg-g> Wikimedia Foundation
<cscheib> ah
<derekv2> <plug>http://www.meetup.com/Detroit-Craftsman-Guild/events/221391424/
<jrwren> derekv2: what do they build?
<derekv2> softwares
<derekv2> you include an example app.  the example app uses angular, so I can't follow anything you did.  You used grunt, and you used it in some sort of nonstandard way, so I have no idea how to build you demo.
<derekv2> i don't think you understand the purpose of example apps
<derekv2> s/you/this guy
<cscheib> jcastro: ha, you got Puppet's CEO to comment on your chef announcement
<jcastro> hah yeah
<jcastro> I doubt I'm on the xmas card list
<cscheib> haha
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-04-02
<cmaloney> EVening
<cscheib> it is indeed evening
<rick_h_> party
<rick_h_> chc party
<cscheib> jcastro: relevant to your interests: I had tacos at Azteca tonight
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> morn
<_stink_> yo
<cmaloney> *Sigh*
<cscheib> somebody have a case of the Thursdays?
<cmaloney> Having a case of "what I thought was a good launch wasn't"
<cscheib> oh?
<cmaloney> Yeah, long story
<cmaloney> suffice to say what we thought we didn't need we needed
<cscheib> happens
<cmaloney> Yeah
<ColonelPanic001> I recently have assumed command of the university's mirror FTP/HTTP server.
 * ColonelPanic001 mirrors bookie
<cscheib> my favorite bad launch of my career was the backup infrastructure I built for a large auto in Auburn Hills... my employer wouldn't let me get powerful enough hardware, I had to use surplus stuff... so, we built a backup env that couldn't keep up.
<_stink_> the guy who had it before you was a terrible person ColonelPanic001
<cscheib> totally not my fault, nearly quit over it.
<cmaloney> ColonelPanic001: That's awesome. :)
<cmaloney> _stink_: DId you manage the mirrors?
<ColonelPanic001> yeah
<ColonelPanic001> I drew the short straw
<ColonelPanic001> now it's mine
<_stink_> *gasp* how could you think such a thing
<cmaloney> _stink_: You're self-effacing.
<cmaloney> ;)
<ColonelPanic001> he can self-face because he has a mirror
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> God, that mirror infrastructure has to be a rickety mess.
<_stink_> i miss giving the 'FTP team' reports every month
<cmaloney> _stink_: "Still a rickety mess"
<cmaloney> "no funding, but thanks for the bandwidth"
<cmaloney> Does WSU still have a Usenet mirror?
<ColonelPanic001> no :\
<cmaloney> and MERIT dial-up? :)
<jrwren> hahaha @ usenet mirror
<ColonelPanic001> we have a pretty speedy connection
<_stink_> no but we have a guy who will tell you ALL ABOUT the dial up pool
<jrwren> no one gets usenet feeds anymore except usenet providers.
<_stink_> while peeing next to you at a urinal
<cmaloney> _stink_: I'll begt
<cmaloney> bet
<cscheib> lulz
<cscheib> MERIT
<cscheib> I used to abuse that shit
<cmaloney> who didn't?
<cmaloney> When they rerquired a login is when I had to get a ISP
<jrwren> they used to not require login?
<cmaloney> _stink_: Is that where his office is?
<jrwren> like you'd just dial a line and be on?
<_stink_> haha
<_stink_> may as well be
<cscheib> yea, I had a login
<cmaloney> jrwren: I thought they didn't have a login for a bit
<cscheib> I don't remember if I had my own or stole someone else's
<jrwren> i've no idea.
<cmaloney> Maybe I'm thinking of something else
<cmaloney> MichNet?
<cmaloney> dunno
<jrwren> michnet was part of merit
<cscheib> ^^
<cmaloney> All I remember is using it for a bit before having to get an ISP account
<cmaloney> Maybe I had an account.
<cmaloney> memory foggy
<jrwren> you probably did from OU
<cscheib> they probably locked the account you were (ab)using
<jrwren> weren't you an enrolled student for a while?
<cmaloney> I worked at WSU
<cmaloney> I wasn't a student at OSU
<cmaloney> was a student at Hope
<jrwren> not a state school.
<cmaloney> Yeah, all private.
<jrwren> was hope a merit member?
<cmaloney> Nope
<jrwren> i didn't think so.
<cscheib> I almost went to OU
<cmaloney> cscheib: Then you looked at the curriculum? :)
<cscheib> well, they were offering me a lot of money
<cscheib> more than Kettering was
<cmaloney> And realized their engineering dept was junk.
<_stink_> cmaloney: my sister in law was at hope for 3 years... maybe around '93-'96?
<_stink_> not sure if that overlaps you
<cmaloney> _stink_: I graduated in '93
<cscheib> is CompEng out of the eng dept or compsci dept?
<cmaloney> I ruined it for her I'm sure.
<_stink_> ah ok
<_stink_> haha
<cscheib> I was in 3rd grade in 93
<cmaloney> cscheib: Not sure
<cmaloney> but they had an awesome instructor there who taught assembly
<cmaloney> JoDee really liked him
<cmaloney> Shit,b lanking on the name
<cmaloney> There's a language that has his name, but I'm not sure that's related.
<cscheib> oddly enough, I probably would never have met jrwren or jcastro had I gone to OU
<jrwren> you are too young.
<cscheib> jrwren: you were working there when I still would have been in college.
<jrwren> comp eng IS a dept.  Its the Department of Computer Science and Engineering in the School of Engineering
<cmaloney> Apparently Comp Sci is under the Engineering dept.
<cmaloney> http://wwwp.oakland.edu/secs/directory/#tab-2
<jrwren> and OU wasn't-isn't completely terrible - its largely what you make of it.
<jrwren> holy crap Jerry got old
<cmaloney> Well, JoDee got into a degree program that didn't translate into anything automotive
<cmaloney> and her later attempts showed a department that didn't have their shit together.
<cmaloney> jrwren: Hate to break it to you but we all got old . :)
<jrwren> CS at OU?
<cmaloney> Physics Engineering
<cmaloney> Engineering Physics
<cmaloney> rather
<jrwren> i never understood that field.
<cmaloney> Physics?
<jrwren> you use physics in engineering. wtf is physics engineering?
<cmaloney> Exactly.
<jrwren> I minored in physics and read QED for fun. I get physics.
<jcastro> I assumed you'd be the guy making stargates and stuff
<jrwren> i don't grok "engineering physics"
<jcastro> you need to know physics and engineering for that
<_stink_> fancy name for 'applied physics'
<cmaloney> jrwren: Well, they got rid of the degree
<jrwren> cmaloney: go figure!
<cmaloney> It was basically engineering for folks who didn't give a shit about cars or medicine.
<cmaloney> aka JoDee.
<_stink_> like most degrees with 'physics' in the name, HR departments don't know what the fuck someone holding it might know
<_stink_> so they can't get jobs
<_stink_> that they would be good at.
<cmaloney> Unfortuantely
<_stink_> not that i'm bitter. :)
<jrwren> physics - people who think better than others. :p
<cmaloney> And Physics is an awesome career-starter if you're a) planning on not being in Michigan, and b) are freshly coming off of the excitement from the  Apollo Space missions
<_stink_> due to self flaggelation.
<cmaloney> Imagine the person flagellating themselves is a sphere.
<_stink_> zero wind resistance.
<cmaloney> ++
<cmaloney> brb
<_stink_> cmaloney: you don't feel the space race buzz in the air still?
<cmaloney> _stink_: Yeah, that's what penny for NASA is all about: we shouldn't be spending whole dollars on the program
<ColonelPanic001> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+mirror/ftp.wayne.edu-release
<ColonelPanic001> here is my contribution to the ubuntu
<jrwren> ya'll run a mirror?
<jrwren> wow! 12.10!
<cmaloney> I think that's why it's pending review
<cmaloney> Very nice.
<jrwren> is it intentionally a PPC only mirror?
<jrwren> and an iso only mirror?
<jrwren> oh nevermind, there is some amd64
<ColonelPanic001> yeah, the ubuntu mirror has been around for years here
<ColonelPanic001> I guess no one bothered to try and get it listed
<jrwren> i think tehy were listed and it would get overloaded and so it was removed from listing
<jrwren> or had a prohibitively small concurrent connection limit, again leading to its delisting
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-04-03
<greg-g> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55rtXg0ZsLE
<rick_h_> ruh roh
<rick_h_> greg-g: heh guess what
<greg-g> what's up?
<rick_h_> greg-g: they've hired a product manager for my team's stuff
<greg-g> yay?
<rick_h_> so now to figureout wtf that means and hope that it's sane
<greg-g> (I want one for my team so bad)
<rick_h_> yea, everyone talks up product managers and how they're awesome sauce
<rick_h_> but since we've not had one for the last year kind of hoping I'll figure out how to let go of bits of things to him
<greg-g> I'm just at the point (10 people, 3 distinct main areas of focus) where I could use the help
<rick_h_> and that video is a bit creepy
<rick_h_> yea
<greg-g> :)
<rick_h_> I've got a really awesome co-lead that helps a ton on my end
<greg-g> technical co-lead?
<rick_h_> yea, technically I lead one of of 6 and he leads the other team of 4 and we coordinate with UX team (5) and another tech team under a different mgr (4)
<rick_h_> so the two of us juggle/manage the project together pretty well
<greg-g> interesting
<greg-g> that's kinda neat
<greg-g> are those 5 UX all for those 10 (14?) devs?
<rick_h_> well, we've got one main UX, a visual person, and two junior folks they're hiring
<rick_h_> and then their manager
<rick_h_> who manages more of them, but we work (well will work) with those 4
<greg-g> nice
<greg-g> I mean, you have a real user-facing product
<greg-g> I don't :)
<rick_h_> yea
<greg-g> (in the traditional sense, of course, our engineering staff are usrs, but not the same)
<rick_h_> right, that internal vs external thing
<rick_h_> it's one thing I didn't like about my last job, we weren't the product but a cost
<rick_h_> which changes the dynamic a bit there
<greg-g> yeah, my team is all cost
<rick_h_> but important cost! :)
<greg-g> without it shit won't be pushed :)
<greg-g> alright, bed time for me, gotta be up at 5:45
<rick_h_> ouch, enjoy
<cmaloney> Morning and all that.
<rick_h_> morn
<_stink_> yo
<greg-g> yo yo
<cmaloney> yo yo yo
<ColonelPanic001> ..
<cmaloney> Yay, apparently someone breached Biggby's loyalty card system
<rick_h_> wheee
<_stink_> you may be bad luck in that regard, cmaloney
<cmaloney> I hope not
<cmaloney> Though JoDee used her card at Biggby today so we'll see if that causes problems.
<jonathan_> that sucks
<jonathan_> do you have a link to that breach cmaloney?
<cmaloney> jonathan_: I got a note from Biggby proper
<cmaloney> Not sure if there's a link
<jjesse> cmaloney: hrmm will have to check my email then
<cmaloney> At the very least they didn't say "hacker" or "cracker"
<cmaloney> and used the term "criminal"
<cmaloney> ++
<jjesse> good for them, no notification in my inbox
<cmaloney> JoDee just got one
<cmaloney> so they may be delayed
<rick_h_> let me stand by my 'never participate in any loyalty program ever' stance
<gamerchick02> what did JoDee just get? sorry i was out
<gamerchick02> rick_h_ i participate in mperks *shrug*
<cmaloney> MPerks is awesome
<gamerchick02> mperks is. their app kind of sucks though
<cmaloney> That's OK, apparently someone broke into change.org
<rick_h_> what is mperks?
<gamerchick02> it's gotten better
<gamerchick02> mperks is Meijer digital coupons
<cmaloney> so they'll know that I signed up to abolish DST
<rick_h_> oh, yea I go to meijer because they don't pressure the program like kroger does
<rick_h_> damn evil place
<cmaloney> M-Perks is acknowledging that Meijer already tracks your ass and gives them explicit permission
<gamerchick02> Kroger, blech
<cmaloney> We've managed to bet $$ from them
<cmaloney> Kroger can DIAF
<gamerchick02> agree!!
<gamerchick02> they cost too much and are wholly inconvenient.
<gamerchick02> https://amysramblings.wordpress.com/2015/03/30/back-to-ubuntu/ dunno if anyone's read my little writeup of the XPS 13, but there it is.
<cmaloney> That's part of the reason I stopped going to Speedway: Their stupid video monitors
<gamerchick02> meh, i ignore them
<gamerchick02> i'm like, desensitized to commercials
<gamerchick02> :-P
<greg-g> http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?id=3693
<gamerchick02> good comic. i love SMBC
<gamerchick02> oh no. i'm browsing amazon again
<derekv> remember when people used to go to the mall to hang out?
<gamerchick02> yes.
<gamerchick02> it was a *thing* when i was in middle and high school
<gamerchick02> now i don't go to the mall unless i need something specific.
<derekv> i like to set up servers but i don't have any good way of keeping them from bitrotting or maintaining them or monitoring them or remembering how I set them up or that I set them up
<derekv> until suddenly i remember one of them and it kills a weekend getting it running again then repeat
<derekv> extreme futility
<greg-g> puppet :)
<greg-g> or whatever config management tool you prefer
<derekv> i just worry that i'd use puppet then the next cycle would come around and puppet (or whatever i used) would be abandon and/or whatever scripts i created would be worthless
<jrwren> haha. the mall.
<jrwren> i go to the mall to just walk around sometimes.
<jrwren> derekv: I just don't setup servers anymore. I consider them ephemeral.
<jrwren> derekv: If i cannot replace it with a new instance in 5-15min, I have failed.
<jrwren> derekv: at arbor we had many roll out in 2-3 minutes
<derekv> i guess they are a little like goldfish... which is maybe evidence why i shouldn't have pets
<derekv> yea i agree for work/business
<jrwren> derekv: right.  Cattle not pets is the new saying.
<derekv> these are just things running in my basement
<jrwren> oh, for basement, I have 1 system. it has its roots from 10+ years now.
<jrwren> I did reinstall when I got new hardware about 5 yrs ago, but did copy a few configs over.
<derekv> i'm down to two, with several VMs however
<jrwren> not sure what bitrot means on a long running server like that ;)
<derekv> s/VMs/jails
<jrwren> i'm about to spinup a short lived VM on it right now :)
<derekv> it just means that for some reason if you don't notice right away if something you got working stopped working, until a long time later
<derekv> my firewall is handspun and i had spent a weekend getting ipv6 working, this was a couple years ago
<jrwren> yeah! me too!
<derekv> and like a year later i noticed it didn't work, no ipv6
<derekv> and i remembered almost nothing about what i did
<jrwren> I save my ipv6 scripts, but every time i reboot I have to run the ipv6 scripts manually ;)
<jrwren> derekv: but that is kind of good, because you do it 2-3 more times and you remember and you really learn it.
<derekv> i'm about to replace it with pfsense =[
<jrwren> lame.
<jrwren> well, maybe no lame, I don't know
<jrwren> but does pfsense have good ipv6 support?
<derekv> i think this firewall install goes back 6~7 years at least
<derekv> i think so
<jrwren> i'd love to see a nice firewall support prefix delegation
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-04-04
<derekv> essentially my firewall build is pfsense but without the gui... it actually predates pfsense i beleive
<derekv> i'm sure i could with some effort solve any issues i have now and make it easier to administer ... but it makes more sense to put that effort elsewhere
<derekv> but, it makes me sad
<derekv> when i was thinking about this before, i realized one thing i do need to focus on is monitoring.  when i set something up, I need to know how well its working (or not), so i can fix it right away (or decide it was stupid)
<jrwren> yup
<jrwren> that is what a good firewall distro SHOULD do for you.
<jrwren> if they dno't, then they suck.
<jrwren> there is really no excuse not to, its just I think most open source home users don't think about it
<jrwren> so its not been an itch that has gotten much scratching.
<jrwren> i like my smokepoing charts: http://delays.xmtp.net/smokeping.cgi?target=Local
<derekv> oh man, this router came with a printed copy of the GPL on a leaflet, and instructions how i can order for a nominal fee a cd containing a copy of the gpl code used on the router
<derekv> instead of just a link to where i could download it?
<greg-g> 1) they need to provide a copy of the GPL is they distribute GPL licensed software 2) read the GPL, it gives that as an example of how to comply with providing source
<greg-g> s/is they/if they/
<derekv> yea, i actually have read it before =]  i just never have seen it taken literally in this way
<greg-g> I think every router I've bought has done it that way :)
<derekv> maybe i never noticed
<greg-g> Also my NAS (well, minus the bit about address for a CD)
<derekv> they should just fork on github, put a link
<derekv> that is acceptable afaik
<derekv> maybe rms would order the cd, but i doubt he'd buy the router in the first place
<greg-g> no router vendor I've seen actually provides a git repo, just a tarball
<derekv> ok maybe someone can catch me up, i studied this stuff pretty well but that was wifi a/b/g... and with a/b/g you just put it all on one SSID and everything magically works
<derekv> whats this _2.4GHz and _5GHz crap?
<derekv> lmgtfm: http://superuser.com/questions/362366/does-it-make-sense-to-keep-different-ssids-for-2-4ghz-and-5ghz-wireless-networks
<jrwren> of course it makes sense. :)
<jrwren> that way you can be sure you are using 5Ghz and not the poluted 2.4Ghz crap
<greg-g> :)
<jrwren> i never want to be on 2.4Ghz if i can help it, hence 2 SSIDs
<derekv> i gather it has better range
<derekv> and ideally, you device picks the right thing to use, but not all devices are ideally
<derekv> or don't know how to ideally
<derekv> (grammer abuse)
<jrwren> yeah, I've not had good experience with any device picking the right thing, EVER
<jrwren> so if you want to not think, and are OK when shit is slow, name 'em same SSID
<jrwren> if you want power and control, 2 names! :)
<jrwren> I named mine "newerbettterfaster2" and "newerbetterfaster5" and they replaced "whythisnowork"
<jrwren> :)
<jrwren> ssid names are fun.
<derekv> yea i'm replacing this cheapo wireless n (2.4 only) i got about a year or so ago
<derekv> and was suddenly getting really bad internet, which turned out to be the wap not the isp
<derekv> and rebooting it "fixed it", but it was still quite slow
<jrwren> ugh
<jrwren> that is why i love wired :)
<cmaloney> Evening
<jrwren> hello cmaloney
<cmaloney> Getting ready for bed.
<derekv> jrwren: me too, which is why the problem was allowed to exist for so long
<derekv> just got a new router though, ddwrt installed =]
<derekv> here's a fun fact, i'm the first on my block to get a 5GHz wifi
<derekv> according to my wifi app
<derekv> 283Mbps @ 5ft
<jrwren> that is what is so great about 5Ghz.
<jrwren> it really reduces the noise.
<derekv> i should have tested with iperf before putting on openwrt
<derekv> 487Mbps with factory
<tony-smlr> SMLR E148 NOW Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjU-jfObR3o Audio: http://live.smlr.us:8000/streaming
<cmaloney> Afternoon
<rick_h_> afternoon
<rick_h_> ugh, porn spam on bookie.io
<rick_h_> go go gadget delete account after a lovely ec2 abuse report heh
<cmaloney> Yay
<cmaloney> http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/ubuntu-us-mi/914/detail/
<cmaloney> Reminder our meeting is tomorrow at 9pm
<greg-g> derekv: 5ghz actually has less range than 2.4, especially through walls
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-04-05
<Havenstance> good afternoon
<cmaloney> Morning
<cmaloney> Evening
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-04-04
<brousch> But 16.04 will be out any day now
<rick_h_> 21st
<rick_h_> coming fast
<cmaloney> Evening
<cmaloney> Anyone around for the meeting?
<cmaloney> raise your hands if you are
 * rick_h_ is around but just because vs a meeting
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> Well, I have some good news
<rick_h_> party time?
<cmaloney> The Release party is on Friday at 8pm at Penguicon
<cmaloney> I'll be adding it to our page in the next few days
<cmaloney> so, muppet hands
<cmaloney> additionally there will be some swag there.
<cmaloney> We have stickers and lanyards
<cmaloney> first come, first served
<cmaloney> *muppet hands*
<cmaloney> and I've picked up ribbons to hand out.
<cmaloney> first 25 folks get a ribbon
<cmaloney> So, if you like getting stuff, this will be something to look forward to. :)
 * jrwren raises hand
<cmaloney> (no CDs because it's 2016)
<cmaloney> Any questions / comments?
<cmaloney> That's all i have for now
<rick_h_> go parties
<cmaloney> woo
<cmaloney> woo
<ColonelPanic001> friday at eight, nice
<ColonelPanic001> neat, I'm not volunteering at that time, so I might be there
<ColonelPanic001> though it does overlap with the PAM: You're Doing It Wrong talk
<cmaloney> If you've been doing ot wrong all this time why stop now? :)
<rick_h_> dammit! it's snowing again
 * rick_h_ is hating this dippy state more and more
<cmaloney> Now now...
<cmaloney> You need to lower your expectations. :)
<cmaloney> and stop checking Portland's weather.
<rick_h_> no, I've given up on portland
<cmaloney> uh oh
<rick_h_> west coast timezone sucks too much to work in
<cmaloney> Heh
<greg-g> don't work for a UK company :)
<rick_h_> at least in any sort of globally distributed company
<rick_h_> greg-g: well, it's just UK, it's EU, AU, NZ, east coast, MTN, and west
<rick_h_> ugh
<greg-g> yeah, we only have 1 person in AUS, and the only people in India are on the same team (sadly, it makes them really isolated :/)
<rick_h_> wake up at 6am and so much crap waiting for you, no real overlap. "Well, I saw a subject line about that topic we're on this call about...but I've not had a chance to read it yet since it's 6am!"
<greg-g> yeah, that's fun, it really is a problem with people not sending meeting invites in time :)
<greg-g> but yeah
<rick_h_> so yea, I'm done with my west coast longing. Well, I'll long, but I'll get over it easier
<greg-g> eastern is better in that regard
<rick_h_> well eastern is the 'middle' as it works out so you get a bit of the best of both
 * greg-g nods
<rick_h_> it's the one guy in dubai that kills me
<greg-g> what offset is he?
<rick_h_> but it's one person, I get up early once a week and call it done
<rick_h_> +4
<greg-g> uhhhhhhggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhh
<rick_h_> yep
<rick_h_> so Tues mornings I get up at 5:30 to get on a call at 6am est with him and it's his EOD
<rick_h_> but everyone else I can work out ok. AU folks get my afternoon/early evenings, EU get my mornings, etc
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-04-05
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> morning
<_stink_> yo
<cmaloney> Is anyone else having trouble getting to us.archive.ubuntu.com?
<_stink_> some latency but came back ok for me
<cmaloney> I'm trying to install dict and it's taking a dog's age.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-04-06
<cmaloney> Hah, apparently I forgot to install Pidgin on this machine for work.
<cmaloney> Wondered why I wasn't seeing work chat from my "morning" script. :)
<cmaloney> unrelated: morning!
<rick_h_> morning
<_stink_> anyone interested in or know someone interested in a PHP job with quicken loans?
<_stink_> i know a hiring manager
<cmaloney> Not I
<Zimdale> There's a lot of jobs out there looking for php folk =(
<Zimdale> and QL is huuuuuuuuuuuuuge
<jrwren> QL is very heavy on the kool-aide IME
<jrwren> I have many friends there.
<Zimdale> kool-aide?
<jrwren> did I spell it wrong?
<jrwren> i did, lol.
<Zimdale> I am more curious on what you are referring to
<Zimdale> I can sound it out
<Zimdale> I am jealous that QL actually have QA folk though
<jrwren> drinking hte kool aid is reference to group think leading to cult members drinking poison kool aid and dying.
<jrwren> To use it in context of a corporate culture is to say that they have great group think and expect a certain amount of conformity to it.
<Zimdale> ah
<jrwren> I have friend in QA at QL
<Zimdale> We need a QA person
<Zimdale> so badly =(
<Zimdale> I really hate the idea that devs can be their own QA people
<jrwren> Quality is Job 1
<cmaloney> Unfortunately shipping this bastard is Job 0
<mrgoodcat> i have a 120v outlet that is controlled by a light switch. i want multiple outlets to be controlled by that switch. does anybody know of a product that does this out of the box?
<mrgoodcat> was looking at something like wemo but the marketing materials don't really help me much
<mrgoodcat> they don't really tell you how programmable they are
<jrwren> run the line yourself?
<mrgoodcat> apartment
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-04-07
<shakes808> waf: Thank you for the information.   I am going to assume that I can fork it and then submit modifications for another page?
<greg-g> ugh, overhearing the "I'm going to go tell on you!" from next door
<greg-g> luckily my boy isn't over there
<shakes808> greg-g: HAHA, nice
<greg-g> there are a couple boys who dislike each other because they are both generally the bullies/alphamales in the group, so.. yeah, they don't get along :)
<shakes808> just tell your son, "kick his @$$ sea bass" and have natural order sort itself out ;)
<cmaloney> Evening
<shakes808> evening cmaloney
<greg-g> shakes808: my son shoots "love guns" that "fill you full of love" where after you're shot you get a huge hug from him
<greg-g> no joke
<shakes808> haha, nice.  what does he shoot?
<greg-g> oh, just his hands
<greg-g> you know, the usual "pew pew pew" thing :)
<shakes808> haha, nice.
<shakes808> Mine is shooting pellet guns.  Teaching him about them.  Hopefully one day, he and I will go hunting and what not.
<shakes808> How old is yours?
<greg-g> 4 (Dec birthday)
<greg-g> I do plan to hunt and such with him later, but still a little early and.. I have no guns/bows myself right now :/
<shakes808> gotcha.  Mine is 10 so getting to that age to start learning the safety and respect of guns and bows.  He had 2 bows that he doesn't really use at the moment because we are in an apartment ;(  Hopefully be in a house with a yard so that we can practice there. :)
<cmaloney> greg-g: That's a perfectly "Greg" thing for ROwan to shoot love guns
<shakes808> He and I go camping at least once a year and fishing about once a month.
<cmaloney> nice!
<jrwren> shooting a bow in an apt can be fun.
<rick_h_> heh, I got the boy a compound bow last year
<shakes808> jrwren: close range / tactical shooting haha
<rick_h_> wonder if he'll be able to pull it fully this year
<shakes808> rick_h_: just need him to keep practicing.  Could always lower the draw weight
<rick_h_> shakes808: yea, it's at it's lowest, 9lb or something
<shakes808> how old is  your son?
<rick_h_> shakes808: 6
<rick_h_> 5 last year when we got it
<rick_h_> he can get 10yards out of it last time he tried
<rick_h_> has a blast
<shakes808> ah, gotcha.  yeah, just have to keep practicing and working up to pull it back.  :) could always go long / recurve bow.
<shakes808> could be an issue at first
<rick_h_> yea, I think he'll be able to do it better this year
<shakes808> but then would build up the muscles to pull back the compound :)
<rick_h_> if it'd stop dropping ICE FROM THE SKY IN APRIL!
 * rick_h_ is cranky about lack of fishing/outside time with SNOW multiple times so far this month
<shakes808> There is a place out here on Rochester Rd.  Phoenix Archery.  I am starting to take my kid there from time to time.  he enjoys it.  They have long / recurve bows there to use and is relatively cheap for range time :)
<shakes808> you can also bring your own if you want
<rick_h_> yea, I guess they can do it some at the bass pro shops at some times?
<shakes808> rick_h_: +1.  can't wait for the weather to break so that we can start going out :)
<rick_h_> it's where we got it at least and they had some class there
<rick_h_> we just go int he back yard, with his limited pull/etc and the target it's not bad
<shakes808> They have a range, but never looked into it.  I sold my stuff years ago due to lack of time to go shooting.  I used to shoot amateur competition... I miss it :(
<shakes808> It is good for that age.  Not like the arrow is going to travel too far ;)
<shakes808> Alright, packing up.  you all have a good night
<shakes808> Good morning all
<rick_h_> morn
<cmaloney> Morning
<shakes808> On Wednesday nights, no one goes into #coffeehousecoders anymore?
<cmaloney> I never think to check it. :)
<shakes808> then should the website not have that since it isn't active?
<cmaloney> Meh. :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-04-08
<brousch> Is anyone running one of the Ubuntu tablets? https://store.bq.com/gl/aquaris-m10-fhd-ubuntu-edition
<mrgoodcat> i wish
<jrwren> i also wish.
<dzho> was just looking at those online yesterday
<dzho> somehow got into the wrong enlish-language version of the site and couldn't find US shipping info
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-04-09
<brousch> dzho: I did the same thing at one point
<cmaloney> Wonder if they actually thought they'd be shipping to the USA.
<dzho> "global" is what one wants, the first path element after the hostname should be 'gl' instead of 'en'
<dzho> once you get to the shipping options, there's a list of countries, but it is only piecemeal alphabetized.
<dzho> "United States" ends up somewhere in the middle, at the end of one run, but before another.
<dzho> s/at/near/
<brousch> cmaloney: I was listening to doom metal (very slow, heavy metal) in my office when George walked in. I asked if he liked it. "No, it's too epic." I'm going to treat that like a compliment, like when he calls my cooking "Too tasty."
<_stink_> haha brousch
<cmaloney> Heh
<cmaloney> That's awesome.
<_stink_> sqlalchemy question just in case someone has seen this: has anyone had trouble mapping Boolean columns with sqlite?  i googled around and didn't find anything obvious.  i'm using declarative, and my insert statements include all the columns except the Boolean ones, and if i dump the mapper for that table it doesn't show the Boolean columns there.
<_stink_> i also asked in #sqlalchemy.
<cmaloney> Are you reflecting or creating?
<cmaloney> Because reflection is going to get it wrong as they're integers
<_stink_> not reflecting - each column is fully included in the model class.
<_stink_> er, explicitly.
<_stink_> the table is there already thought thanks to alembic
<_stink_> s/thought/though
<cmaloney> So this is an alembic issue then?
<cmaloney> Not quite following
<_stink_> naw, it's in my application.  the table is in the db and .schema shows the right stuff.  but in the model class, i am using declarative, and i have something like
<_stink_> read = Column(Boolean, blahblah)
<_stink_> but the read column never gets mapped
<cmaloney> Did you try using a different variable name, or is this for all booleans?
<_stink_> i wondered that too - it's for all Booleans, but they are named "read", "write", and "delete" :P
<_stink_> so maybe some kind of collision
<cmaloney> Try adding something to the vars like _flag and see if that works.
<cmaloney> brb
<_stink_> i'd need to change the column names though?  or maybe there's a mapper flag to point to a different column name
<_stink_> thanks for the advice cmaloney
<brousch> _stink_: delete might be your issue http://www.sqlite.org/lang_keywords.html
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-04-10
<cmaloney> back
<_stink_> brousch: looks like alembic quoted the column name "delete" when it made the table
<cmaloney> nice!
<cmaloney> morning
<cmaloney> _stink_: DId you get it sorted?
<cmaloney> (the sqlalchemy / boolean / sqlite mapping?)
<_stink_> cmaloney: not yet, but my time has been limited - #sqlalchemy folks are asking for a minimal proof so i'm throwing something together.
<cmaloney> Yeah, it's kind of hard to play along without some code to look at
<rick_h_> kind of cool https://mobile.twitter.com/ianbicking/status/719177461855076360
<cmaloney> That would be handy
<cmaloney> Although the node.js is a similar non-starter as ruby
<cmaloney> eg: I have to really want it, and it's getting thrown into a container where it can crap-up the walls in peace.
<cmaloney> Also: mobile.twitter.com is 100% nicer to use than the actual web application
<cmaloney> WTF.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-04-03
<cmaloney> Darnit, I was turned down for a mortgage
<cmaloney> By The Decision In Principle
<cmaloney> with Leeds B.S.
<Zimdale> :(
<Zimdale> Who'd you go through?
<cmaloney> Which is likely looking for another Craig Maloney. :)
<cmaloney> "The Decision In Principle ( DIP ) with Leeds B.S. has been reviewed and declined Iâm afraid ( see attached )."
<cmaloney> Company in Rotherham
<cmaloney> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham
<Zimdale> Oh, spam-type email?
<jrwren> that is funny
<cmaloney> Nah. I get a lot of shit mail for other Craig Maloneys
<cmaloney> not sure if they use my email as a burner or what
<Zimdale> Sounds like a way to steal some identitiies ;)
<cmaloney> Sent them a "not the Craig you're looking for" email
<cmaloney> One dip used it for his Sony Playstation account
<cmaloney> The temptation to reset his password was pretty high, but then I'd have to explain how I got it
<cmaloney> and computer hacking laws aren't particularly generous to "ha ha" moments.
<cmaloney> Though I did send the one dude's order of head-shop accessories to his local police dept.
<cmaloney> I'd rather not have someone seize my Google account if they're doing grey-market stuff.
<cmaloney> Bah, that's not the right term
<cmaloney> Anywho... :)
<cmaloney> https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/636r8c/freedom_penguin_suggests_mark_shuttleworth_should/ <- Don't ever change, community.
<cmaloney> nobody touches on the underlying issue that Mark would never consider doing this in the first place. ;)
<cmaloney> It's all a tug-of-war about how that money should fund Krita / GIMP instead
<cmaloney> and why Adobe is evil
<jcastro> why doesn't whoever freedom penguin is do a crowdfunding campaign?
<cmaloney> Fuck if I know
<cmaloney> Maybe because they want the branding of "Mark Shuttleworth" to spearhead the campaign
<jrwren> lolz @ all of it.
<jrwren> https://duckduckgo.com/?q=adobe+photoshop+and+wine&bext=msl&atb=v32-7b_&ia=web
<cmaloney> evening
<_stink_> yo
<gamerchick02> hey hey
<gamerchick02> it's monday. ooof
<gamerchick02> almost done though
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-04-04
<android808> Evening all.  Question about uninstalling a graphics driver.  I was installing the vulkan driver and now Ubuntu doesn't boot.
<android808> I am trying to get my wireless to connect via terminal, but I can't find any posts that work for me.  Anyone know how to do that?
<android808> Been trying iwconfig
<android808> From posts i have been looking at
<android808> And iwlist
<cmaloney> jrwren just got told to run stuff on Linux for .NET by Scott Hanselman
<_stink_> ..
<jrwren> cmaloney: yeah, those .net core folks are such tools. they totally miss the point.
<jrwren> it makes me sad how messed up this industry is.
<jcastro> jay
<jcastro> your tweets frighten me
<jcastro> "tip: you won't reboot your cloud insts anyway, right? `apt-mark hold linux-image-generic` to prevent kernel updates from filling your disk."
<jcastro> I am so glad you're not on the distro team
<jcastro> the rest of your posts seem satisfactory.
<cmaloney> heh
<jrwren> jcastro: you don't really run ops, do you?
<jrwren> jcastro: I don't anymore, but I did.
<jrwren> you don't NEED that kernel unless it solves a problem for you, so you don't install it or reboot.
<jrwren> There is only a remote vuln fix in a kernel once every few years, so you only NEED to reboot once every few years. The rest is YAGNI.
<jrwren> This is how ops is done when actual risk analysis and cost benefit analysis is done before doing things.
<jrwren> You do not jsut do things, "because we've always dont it that way."
<jrwren> Also, how would being on the distro team matter? Seems like you'd want to keep me out of webops.
<cmaloney> I think it depends on the time / effort to spin up a new instance
<cmaloney> and if you're going for "long-running" instances rather than just spinning and building new
<jrwren> exactly part of why I tweeted what I tweeted.
<jrwren> "you won't reboot your cloud insts anyway, right..."  because its short lived.
<cmaloney> Yeah, that makes sense
<cmaloney> though why you're running apt on short-lived instances also eludes me
<jrwren> but also, there is the case of cloud instances which aren't on the internet at all. security group with all inet access disabled. What is the risk of not upgrading kernel on those instances?
<jrwren> cmaloney: ha! that is exactly the next step! NEVER upgrade anything on cloud instances, ONLY redeploy to get upgrades.
<cmaloney> :)
<jrwren> cmaloney: but... unattended-upgrades is on by default and spams your systems automatically with "security" updates.
<cmaloney> Yeah, I know
<jrwren> but... ya know what those "security" updates do when the root disk fills? IT CAUSES DENIAL OF SERVICE! So you are worse by default!
<cmaloney> though Ubuntu Server has the option to not have that on as part of the install
<jrwren> cloud-img is on be default and that is what runs everywhere in the cloud :)
<jrwren> *in cloudimg it is on by default*
<jcastro> and it also prunes kernels by default
<jcastro> you have a problem and you went right to "turn off updates"
<cmaloney> newer versions, though
<cmaloney> I see both sides of this
<cmaloney> if you have an insance that's only going to be around for an hour or two then having updates run is pointless
<jrwren> it does not prune kernels by deault.
<jrwren> I had this happen to me.
<jrwren> 1.5G of kernels filling that little 9G root partition.
<jrwren> it only prunes OLD kernels.
<cmaloney> I've had kernels overflow my /boot partition
<jrwren> but if you leave the system *unattended* then it isn't rebooting, it is only installing new kernels which will NEVER be used.
<cmaloney> but I'm also on 14.04
<jrwren> also, I did NOT "turn off updates" instead, I pinned ONLY the kernel version. Other security updates continue to be applied automatically via unattended-upgrades.
<jrwren> as former sysadmins, modern devops requires us to rethink everything, including this. The fact that we aren't shows that we aren't willing to give up the past and change and doing things newer and better.
<cmaloney> Newer, yes. Better is still TBD
<jrwren> oh, i agree, every use case is different, however, to disregard it entirely is foolish.
<jrwren> you'll note I never suggested it should be the default.
<cmaloney> :)
<jrwren> its also REALLY hard for a lot of us who love tech to admit that newer isn't always better.
<jrwren> whoa, community people, anyone know what Joe Landman is up to now? https://scalability.org/2017/03/some-updates-coming-soon/
<jrwren> "one of the hardest things when you are trying to affect change is that people like this gentlemen are right, in certain areas."
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-04-05
<cmaloney> Good morning
<brousch__> Yes
<cmaloney> It's a start. :)
<cmaloney> I swear the worst thing you can give a recruiter is your phone number
<cmaloney> now I'm not only getting odd-calls, but odd text messages
<Zimdale> Tell them you want a pizza
<cmaloney> STOP
<Zimdale> https://youtu.be/vVlEVRKv4is?t=57s
<cmaloney> heh
<Zimdale> I always wanted to ask for shit, but I don't think that would make them less annoying
<cmaloney> Well, I love th "I didn't get you on your phone so now I'll text you" approach
<cmaloney> "I was busy with something else. That's why I didn't pick up the phone"
<Zimdale> "You didn't answer your phone so I figured I'd spy on your through the bushes at your home"
<cmaloney> "oh, and by the way email is awesome for this scheduling shit"
<Zimdale> Is it teksystems?
<cmaloney> No, it's the company that you passed along to me
<Zimdale> Oh that crazy spam email one?
<cmaloney> Yeah
<Zimdale> Yeah I could see that
<cmaloney> Unfortunately it's a hit
<cmaloney> so I get to do a screen-sharing coding session with Deepfield
<cmaloney> I'm really starting to hate this industry.
<cmaloney> "Sure, we'd love to see what you're made of. So let's schedule the most awkward test to see how you perform."
<Zimdale> ooo you'd be part of Nokia
<cmaloney> I already was when it was called Alcatel Lucent.
<cmaloney> It was no Bell Labs then
<Zimdale> Was it a hit from that same email over a month ago? O.o
<cmaloney> Same with another automotive supplier that had to (no shit) show me two presentations about how they could trace their lineage to the Dodge Brothers.
<cmaloney> even though they were so far removed from it (being owned by a Chinese company)
<cmaloney> Zimdale: A-yep.
<Zimdale> wat
<Zimdale> Man moving that slow sounds like a red flag by itself
<cmaloney> It's a start-up with the baggage of Nokia
<cmaloney> what do you expect.
<Zimdale> hahaha
<cmaloney> Oh, sorry, "THE POWER OF NOKIA WITH THE NIMBLENESS OF A STARTUP"
<cmaloney> "together combined like Voltron to defend the universe"
<Zimdale> apparently leadership there is a shit show
<cmaloney> At Nokia?
<Zimdale> At deepfield
<cmaloney> doesn't surprise me
<cmaloney> I'm sure most of them will be replaced in the near future when their golden handcuffs disappear and they can divest themselves.
<cmaloney> I'm looking at it more as practice.
<Zimdale> True dat
<Zimdale> Plus you could put time in while looking for a place you like more
<cmaloney> Yeah
<cmaloney> Right now I'm at the "I'd like my income to not be the charity of others"
<Zimdale> Yeah :(
<Zimdale> I am a little surprised MUG hasn't gotten you in. Usually companies really like community involvement
<cmaloney> MUG isn't the problem. Coding tests are.
<Zimdale> Ah
<cmaloney> 90 minutes to submit 3 problems / 2 puppet examples where the system doesn't handle STDIN the same way that my local machine does tends to limit ones options.
<Zimdale> weird
<cmaloney> It was some strange site where they treated all of the languages interchangeably
<cmaloney> and I'm not sure if what they had for Python really worked or not
<cmaloney> but I'm sure all they saw was none of the test cases worked
<cmaloney> which is true, because none of the data made it to my program
<Zimdale> hahaha sounds typical
<cmaloney> But hey, algorithms don't lie,
<cmaloney> no bias there.
 * cmaloney is trying not to be too salty
<Zimdale> hahaha
<Zimdale> Yeah I had many fights over those tests
<Zimdale> we had someone that wanted to give a test that tested efficiency of a recursive brute for algorithm
<Zimdale> brute forcing*
<Zimdale> irked me becuase unless you did a lot of recursion you're going to struggle with it and it shows nothing more than experience with that style algorithm
<cmaloney> Is there much call for that as part of the job?
<cmaloney> I mean, maybe you were applying to be a technical editor for a computer science textbook
<Zimdale> lolno
<cmaloney> Exactly
<Zimdale> all we did was put forms on websites...
<cmaloney> it's somewhat pointless to ask someone to white-board out a fibbonacci sequence
<Zimdale> yeah
<cmaloney> or test efficiency of algorithms (recursive / brute-force)
<Zimdale> Like it's okay as long as you tell them that is what they are being tested on
<cmaloney> unless that's something that you value as part of the day-to-day.
<Zimdale> so you can test how well they can learn new things
<cmaloney> I got salty in one interview (for a publishing company)
<Zimdale> and not how well they already know a thing that they may never use
<cmaloney> they wanted me to white-board out a fibbonacci sequence
<cmaloney> I asked them if this was something that came up often in the job
<Zimdale> hahaha
<Zimdale> in theory it tests "problem solving abilities"
<cmaloney> I appreciated in one job interview that they liked when I wrote out the brute-force steps for something and then said "Upon thinking about this more I could just remove the spaces and use the built-in reverse function)
<cmaloney> problem is I don't know what they're looking for. Are you looking for my shitty first-draft thinking or something where I've had some time to think about it?
<cmaloney> because shitty-first-draft thinking looks a whole lot like Atari BASIC / Pascal.
<Zimdale> I am sure htey don't know what they are looking for
<cmaloney> or old C code
<cmaloney> unless it's something that I've done recently in Python
<Zimdale> When we interviewed we almost never looked for clean designed code
<cmaloney> Whenever I play around on Codewars I don't know all of the little clever tricks that folks can use to make three lines of tightly-integrated code.
<Zimdale> But usually depends on how arrogant the interviewer is
<Zimdale> We usually got better information just asking them about past experience and how they solved it
<cmaloney> Yeah
<Zimdale> But depending on past work experience that is also something that doesn't always work
<cmaloney> I don't even mind the "here's something that happened from the job with the serial-numbers filed off"
<Zimdale> I really wish there were more panels on tech interviewing at pcon
<cmaloney> talk me through what you think would happen.
<cmaloney> Tech interviewing is a skill
<cmaloney> there's no question in my mind that this is something that people have to learn
<Zimdale> On both sides of the table
<cmaloney> And I don't mean some douchey "crack the coding interview" sort of thing
<Zimdale> it would be nice if there were more resources out there debunking a lot of people's idea of "what is the right programmer"
<cmaloney> I mean something where both sides of the table are genuine with each other
<cmaloney> God yes.
<cmaloney> Problem I've seen a lot of is "we need to fill the (whomever) shaped hole that left"
<Zimdale> Yeah
<Zimdale> when we were interviewing we were looking for people with similar experiences and qualities as the rest of the team had
<cmaloney> So, (whomever) was an expert at (technology). We need more of that.
<Zimdale> and often overlooked that diversity actually lends itself more to problem solving than the exact same experiences as your "best dev"
<Zimdale> A lot of it is sad because it's definitely not intentional, it's mostly just not realizing that it's possible
<cmaloney> Totally
<Zimdale> That someone with far less experience than you could solve a problem better than you can just because they come from a different background
<cmaloney> One of the "fun"questions I was asked at lunch for an interview was "Marvel vs. DC" and "Star Wars vs. Star Trek".
<cmaloney> "I don't read comics" tends to land flat.
<cmaloney> Oh yeah
<Zimdale> Yeah that sounds like a "break awkward silence" question
<cmaloney> JoDee and I have joked that these "Data Scientist" positions wouold be best with both of us
<cmaloney> she's a physicist / astronomer that doesn't have the programming background
<cmaloney> I have the programming background but I need Free42 to compute how much a 32oz bag of coffee costs per ounce.
<cmaloney> Together we're perfect for the role.
<cmaloney> Hell, one of JoDee's friends teaches math, but he's struggling to get the programming experience
<Zimdale> I struggled at math and do programming \o/
<cmaloney> so you've already limited yourself to a) folks that just came out of college b) with programming experience c) and fresh stats experience
<Zimdale> I enjoy how much the default idea of CS falls flat all the time.
<cmaloney> JoDee took a look at my transcripts from Hope. She was mortified at my math grades.
<cmaloney> One coding test I had was how many 1 inch straws (matches) could one put together to make a rectangle
<cmaloney> and what was the largest area that rectangle could cover
<cmaloney> Which is an awesome question for someone who got a C in Algebra and a D- in Calc II
<Zimdale> wat
<Zimdale> That's weird
<Zimdale> is the answer 6?
<cmaloney> You were given a numbmer of straws (matches) and had to compute it out
<Zimdale> oh
<cmaloney> So for 9 matches the answer was 3
<Zimdale> Yeah I still don't understand that
<cmaloney> Right
<cmaloney> So it assumes a few things
<cmaloney> 1) That you remember how to compute area
<cmaloney> (Length * Width)
<Zimdale> ohhhhhhh
<Zimdale> I missed the "and what was the largest area that rectangle could cover
<cmaloney> 2) That you're mathematically savvy enough to come up with an algorithm wherin you can determine if the number of matches that still make up a rectangle
<cmaloney> Oh, and it's timed
<cmaloney> and you get three tries to submit code
<cmaloney> and you can't leave the window without a stern warning that you'll end the test if you do
<Zimdale> so you can't use the googs?
<cmaloney> Nope.
<cmaloney> (at least, not on that machine. ;) )
<Zimdale> fuck that noise
<Zimdale> My favorite one to give was a piglatin translator and they were allowed to use google
<cmaloney> That makes sense
<Zimdale> It was simple enough that most people could figure it out one way or another and was fast enough where people could go back and improve their code on site
<cmaloney> Yeah, those are simple rules to follow
<cmaloney> and it does some simple string manipulation
<Zimdale> yup
<Zimdale> Just take the first letter drop it at the end and add ay
<cmaloney> and if it's not 100% correct at least you get an idea of where they were coming from
<Zimdale> then do some shit with case and multiple words
<cmaloney> there's rules for vowels
<cmaloney> apple-ay
<Zimdale> Yeah we never bothered with those
<Zimdale> It was enough where we could weed out people that couldn't program at all pretty easily
<Zimdale> Like if you struggled through the creation of a function, chances are you shouldn't be trying to get into a sr role
<cmaloney> THing is you could do that easily with "sum the first 100 numbers"
<cmaloney> or "write a for loop to sing 99 bottles of beer"
<cmaloney> here's a function with the text
<Zimdale> Yeah
<Zimdale> we did this one but write an algorithm to solve it http://thescienceexplorer.com/technology/can-you-solve-1000-school-lockers-riddle
<cmaloney> I don't like Fizz Buzz because it relies heavily on modulus, but it's not too horrible
<Zimdale> fizz buzz is too well known to realistically use it
<Zimdale> and yeah modulus that I have almost never used professionally
<cmaloney> I don't like the locker one without the solution being presented
<Zimdale> The locker one is pretty easy if you're writing an algorithm for it
<cmaloney> Oh, I see
<Zimdale> just an array of 1000 booleans
<cmaloney> Right
<Zimdale> and iterating through it
<cmaloney> That's not too horrible
<cmaloney> and then count up the ones that are still left in the "open" state
<Zimdale> yup
<Zimdale> just asking it and expecting them to do it in their head would be bad
<cmaloney> Well, and you can ask them to scale it up
<cmaloney> 10,000 lockers
<cmaloney> not necessarily understand the "it's the squares, idiot"
<Zimdale> yeah
<cmaloney> Yeah, I think that's fine
<brousch__> cmaloney: I had one live remote coding test and it did not go well, but I also failed a whiteboard fibonnaci
<brousch__> Turns out I didn't want that job anyways, but it still sucked
<brousch__> Oh, and startup with the baggage of Nokia sounds a lot like startup with the baggage of Caterpillar
<brousch__> That was a spectacular implosion
<cmaloney> brousch__: Yeah, and considering they have the indigestion of ALU to go along with it...
<jrwren> crazy stuff: https://insights.ubuntu.com/2017/04/05/growing-ubuntu-for-cloud-and-iot-rather-than-phone-and-convergence/
<brousch__> oh wow
<cmaloney> I had a feeling this was coming
<cmaloney> a) Microsoft has taken the lead on convergence
<jrwren> lol, wut? they have?
<cmaloney> The Surface is what we're calling "Convergent devices" afaict
<cmaloney> aka tablets with keyboards = laptops
<cmaloney> b) THe Phone Carriers in the USA are dicks
<brousch__> It makes sense, but dropping Unity surprises me
<cmaloney> so getting one of them to take a risk is not happening
<cmaloney> It was a dead-end
<cmaloney> I wonder if this is also the end of Mir
<brousch__> I always hated it, but some people liked it
<cmaloney> I grew to like Unity
<cmaloney> It has a certain NeXT charm to it
<jrwren> I'm still not really sure what unity ever was. people always compared to gnome or kde, but those are whole app environments. AFAICT unity was only ever the launcher bar, WM and LD_PRELOAD hacks to move the main menu. That is a far cry from comprehensive nature of gnome or kde.
<jcastro> it was basically a gnome fork
<jrwren> really? it was a fork of the gnome project, with all the same goals? That is a rather lofty set of goals.
<jcastro> well, it had compiz as the window manager
<jcastro> but like, the menu and stuff wasn't accepted upstream so we had to carry old versions of gnome with patches
<cmaloney> I have to say, the  menu in the top bar is my favorite feature
<cmaloney> (title-bar? notsomuch)
<cmaloney> That's a rough decision to make though. I give Mark credit for falling on his sword like that
<cmaloney> Something tells me that re-writing Unity in Qt was a PITA though
<jcastro> I always switch it to the title bar and then always-on
<cmaloney> ugh
<greg-g> from a coworker: "Ubuntu is giving up on Unity and going back to Gnome. not many differences to Debian left after that?"  ;)
<greg-g> I replied with "Landscape ;)"
<jrwren> soooo many differences.
<jrwren> i should make a list of differences to remind me. :)
<cmaloney> heh
<jrwren> does debian even cloudimg? :)
<cmaloney> https://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/76463369/do-you-even-lift-guy-debian-do-you-even-cloudimg.jpg
<jrwren> oh no.
<jrwren> lol, did you just... make that?
<cmaloney> Yes
<greg-g> meme generators are quick like that :)
<cmaloney> ;)
<brousch__> I like https://memegen.link/
<brousch__> But that meme isn't on there
<jrwren> debian does cloud: https://wiki.debian.org/Cloud/SystemsComparison
<gamerchick02> computer almost set back up completely woohoo
<cmaloney> Cool
<gamerchick02> very!
<gamerchick02> i'm installing steam games and Assassin's Creed Black Flag right now
<gamerchick02> my internet connection is getting hammered. lol
<greg-g> when your personal browser profile's collection of tabs is just a sad reminder of things you won't get done...
<greg-g> where "personal" == "non-work"
<jrwren> gamerchick02: what was the deal? bad mobo?
<gamerchick02> i... i... knocked the connection off the on/off switch pins *hangs head in shame*
<gamerchick02> lol greg-g
<greg-g> 4 tabs on a topic and WP article to improve, a tab for a review of your favorite podcast, I guess that's really it for now, it felt like more
<gamerchick02> heh
<gamerchick02> i have a habit of opening articles. but then i'll stick them in instapaper and... forget about them sometimes
<greg-g> yeah, there's a couple "to-read" in there as well
<gamerchick02> but regarding the computer, i can't believe i did what i did and then schlepped the whole thing down to microcenter for them to tell me that i accidently unhooked the on/off button.
<gamerchick02> no new mobo or chip or power supply so i guess that's good. i almost wanted it to be that. i'd at least get an upgrade out of it, you know?
<jrwren> gamerchick02: dang!!! I hope they didn't charge you to much for that. Glad you are up and running again.
<gamerchick02> $40
<jrwren> not too bad.
<gamerchick02> no not at all
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-04-06
<jrwren> rick_h: did you find reddit /r/learnguitar yet? some good stuff there.
<rick_h> jrwren: no, thanks. I kind of put it down as I didn't like my instructor and so start with a new one on monday
<rick_h> so not a lot of playing the last couple of months :(
<gamerchick02> try youtube tutorials
<gamerchick02> there's plenty out there. if you can learn the chords and how to read tab, then you can watch the tutorials to figure out strumming and stuff
<rick_h> yea, I found a couple of good folks
<rick_h> the big thing I I'm the kind of person that has questions and such
<rick_h> so I just don't do as well w/o that interactive element
<jrwren> rick_h wants what rick_h wants. :p
<rick_h> jrwren: lol
<rick_h> jrwren: sometimes
<jrwren> I was progressing through yousician nicely then hit a wall... now I gotta do something else.
<gamerchick02> well i wish you luck
<cmaloney> rick_h: Instructors are a very personal thing
<cmaloney> you have to be comfortable in order to learn
<cmaloney> There's no shame in recognizing that things aren't working out
<jrwren> ha! if only that were true for college professors.
<jrwren> Maybe I'd have aced Statics and Dynamics.
<cmaloney> Yeah, no joke
<shakes808> morning all
<shakes808> rick_h: heard that you guys are scrapping Unity and the mobile platforms. https://goo.gl/gSScF5
<rick_h> shakes808: looks like it
<shakes808> I am kind of sad that the mobile platform is going away.  I really wanted to see that thrive.  The indiegogo teaser of the Ubuntu Edge was very inticing.  I would have loved to make that my new phone. https://goo.gl/RrpLzI
<jrwren> when was teh edge campaign? 2013?
<shakes808> jrwren: sounds about right.
<shakes808> They were estimating 2014 to start delivering them to the backers
<jrwren> a lot changes in 4 yrs.
<jrwren> Canonical is not alone. Mozilla dropped their phoneOS too
<shakes808> didn't that mozilla had one too.
<shakes808> by glancing at the images of it, it looked just like android.  almost like the BLU phones
<shakes808> at least the Edge looked completely differernt from what is out there and it looked like it was doing its' own thing
<jrwren> well sure, but edge is vapor.
<jrwren> You or I could make up some imaginary specs, draw pretty pictures, and say, "LOOK!"
<brousch__> Sounds like it's going to be just Android and iOS for the next several years
<jrwren> hopefull Tizen will break through in US market.
<jrwren> remember enlightenment wm? and elibs... that all became Tizen
<jrwren> "Tizen Native Display Layer" is enlightenment foundation libs
<brousch__> Some security guy just outted Tizen as the worst code he's ever seen
<jrwren> meaningless.
<shakes808> jrwren: i thought they had working models?
<jrwren> "oh no, its C, it must be bad!"
<brousch__> http://appleinsider.com/articles/17/04/05/researcher-calls-samsungs-tizen-os-the-worst-code-ive-ever-seen
<jrwren> shakes808: I think you may be right. prototypes.
<brousch__> That won't help its adoption
<jrwren> brousch__: that is probably over the TV hacks, and... I disagree. I do not think it impacts adoption at all.
<jrwren> brousch__: same source pub wrote this: http://appleinsider.com/articles/15/07/31/flabbergastingly-insecure-googles-android-is-the-new-flash
<jrwren> its almost as if appleinsider writes articles slamming anything that isn't apple. go figure.
<jrwren> Not that its all that difficult :)
<brousch__> See, Android would be at 99% adoption if that hadn't been written!
<jrwren> brousch__: lolz
<jrwren> brousch__: would that be good? or would we need some new startup with funding from a sabdfl who creates a bug one that says, "android has 99% adoption..." and goes on to fight for freedom and justice?
<brousch__> More options is better
<cmaloney> I still maintain that the reason there's Android and Windows phones at all is because Google and MS can bankroll them to get past the carriers
<cmaloney> Put a radio in something and suddenly the FCC gets rather sticky
<cmaloney> and hook it to the "wireless phone network" and suddenly the carriers get sticky
<jrwren> cmaloney: so... same for iphones? because they "bankroll them to get past the carriers" ?
<cmaloney> That was a pull
<cmaloney> AT&T took a gamble and it paid off
<cmaloney> though not sure about the particulars of the initial launch
<shakes808> cmaloney: how is your job hunting going?  It has been a while.
<cmaloney> Yes, yes it has
<cmaloney> I have two coding interviews on Friday
<cmaloney> Haven't joined the circus as planned
<cmaloney> Thinking about starting up a blog called "The Mediocre Programmer"
<cmaloney> with a video channel
<cmaloney> turn that into a brand and get some internet money. :)
<shakes808> haha, I would spread the word!  haha.  Surprised that it is taking you this long to find something.  Are you going through any head hunters?
<cmaloney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZKp_jFxQJc
<cmaloney> ^- That'll be me someday
<jrwren> cmaloney: i had similar aspirations, but my blog & video series  is titled, "The shitty programmer"
<cmaloney> Maybe we can combine forces
<jrwren> :)
<shakes808> programming twin powers activate!  in the form of a slightly better programmer than a shitty one but almost as good as a mediocre one!
<cmaloney> So I may or may not have just registered "themediocreprogrammer.com"
<jrwren> lol
<shakes808> cmaloney: nice
<cmaloney> http://themediocreprogrammer.com/
<jrwren> bwahahahaha
<jrwren> you need a cert :p
<cmaloney> Heh
<greg-g> ugh, so far behind in my rss feeds
<jrwren> same. always behind.
<jrwren> feedly has somehow gotten WORSE over the years.
<mrgoodcat> I'm always behind
<mrgoodcat> I wish more outlets would post 3 quality articles per day rather than 30 questionable ones
<mrgoodcat> or at least offer feeds of curated high priority content
<mrgoodcat> to filter out all the garbage
<jrwren> i'd like 1 quality per week plz.
<mrgoodcat> the daring fireball article feed is about 1/week
<mrgoodcat> the master feed is a few per day which is too much for me
<jrwren> there is a master feed and an article feed?
<mrgoodcat> yea
<mrgoodcat> http://daringfireball.net/feeds/articles
<mrgoodcat> feeds/main is the master feed
<mrgoodcat> which does articles, talk show, and stuff he links from around the web
<mrgoodcat> I wish more bloggers would split their feeds like this
<mrgoodcat> I also filter macstories.net to only include <dc:creator><![CDATA[Federico Viticci]]></dc:creator> and to exclude <category><![CDATA[Linked]]></category>
<mrgoodcat> which serves roughly the same purpose
<cmaloney> I just wait for Daring Fireball stuff to flow through the usual channels until something perfectly digested floats on by
 * cmaloney has way too many feeds
<mrgoodcat> what feeds do you like?
<cmaloney> https://www.dropbox.com/s/v0hkbxcbzqff4lf/feeds.opml?dl=0
<cmaloney> That's my opml (with a few subscription feeds removed)
<cmaloney> Bah, left one in there by accident. Removed it.
<brousch__> cmaloney: The fact that you bought a .com address instead of one of the trendy new TLDs speaks to your mediocrity. Well done.
<cmaloney> brousch__: Thank you
<cmaloney> I was thinking about mediocreprogrammer.club, but I said "screw that; it's a club of one dammit"
<mrgoodcat> that is way more feeds than i have
<mrgoodcat> haha
<mrgoodcat> https://vorte.xyz/s/DCCgcL2bVph5qDt
<mrgoodcat> there's mine
<cmaloney> Wow, that's way less. :)
<cmaloney> Mine also includes ars technica and reddit
<cmaloney> but they have subscription URLs
<gamerchick02> nice. i lost count but i'm trying to stay under the limit for feedly free
<mrgoodcat> I'm trying to stay under the limit of my sanity
<mrgoodcat> I can't pay attention to more than a small handful of feeds
<mrgoodcat> and I feel like i have to at least read the headline for every item to see if it's worth reading
<mrgoodcat> If an outlet isn't worth at least the time for me to read every headline, then they aren't worth subscribing to
<mrgoodcat> just that alone severely limits the number of subs
<cmaloney> That's good advice
<mrgoodcat> i'm thinking about giving 9to5mac the boot
<mrgoodcat> macrumors covers all the important stuff and 9to5 has a lot of garbage articles
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-04-07
<gamerchick02> agree, mrgoodcat.
<jrwren> i don't follow any of those sites :)
<cmaloney> I gave up on the macintosh when Apple decided "going nuclear" was more imporant than competing.
<jrwren> wtf does that mean?
<cmaloney> Patent nonsense
<jrwren> oh, well then you really can't buy a laptop.
<jrwren> stick to 15yo desktops... :)
<cmaloney> We bought a Dell w/ Ubuntu on it.
<cmaloney> XPS
<jrwren> lots of patents in that laptop, i'm sure.
<cmaloney> It was kind of the last straw for me with Apple
<cmaloney> I don't have a problem with patents
<jrwren> i'm happy mp3 patents expired and are expiring.
<cmaloney> I have a problem when companies use them to try to screw with other companies
<jrwren> what other purpose would a patent serve?
<cmaloney> http://gizmodo.com/5851937/steve-jobs-was-ready-for-thermonuclear-war-with-google
<jrwren> lol
<jrwren> oh, that was always the rumor wasn't it... that Jobs was PISSED about android.
<cmaloney> He was
<cmaloney> and understandably so
<cmaloney> but it was totally the look-and-feel bullshit of the 1980s
<cmaloney> it didn't work then and it didn't work in 2011
<jrwren> yeah, such a waste
<cmaloney> save for a few things that they got Samsung to stop doing because they were really close to what Apple was doing
<cmaloney> but yeah, I hate it when companies do software patent pile-on
<cmaloney> Not that I missed much. Unfortunately Apple was dealt a mortal blow when Steve passed
<cmaloney> Merlin Mann had a good quote about it in this last Back to Work episode
<jrwren> i laugh at folks who think that.
<jrwren> if anything, apple is making worse IP decisions with Jobs gone.
<jrwren> the samba removal in favor of the other shittier SMB client wouldn't have happened under Jobs IMO... because it works for shit.
<cmaloney> along the lines of a razor where he says "what would an Operations-person at Apple do"
<cmaloney> Yeah
<cmaloney> their software decisions have been sketchy at best
<jrwren> yeah, no plugable codecs in corevideo... no plugable codecs at all because Quicktime is gone.
<jrwren> macos just gets worse and worse with every release.
<jrwren> HUGE opportunity for someone to come in and do better.
<jrwren> Because same is true for windows... worse and worse with every release for 10yrs now.
<cmaloney> Yeah, it's like mobile became a thing and then suddenly everyone lost sight of making the desktop better. ;)
<cmaloney> Speaking of boneheaded moves: https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/04/microsoft-formally-bans-emulators-on-xbox-windows-10-download-shops/
<cmaloney> morning
<cmaloney> And the first coding interview of the morning is done
<cmaloney> Got another one where I'm "pair programming" over Zoom
<cmaloney> that's at 1pm
<cmaloney> Put another nickel in the cup and watch the monkey dance
<Zimdale> By "pair programming" do they mean "You program while we watch"?
<cmaloney> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/89/Organ_grinder_with_monkey.jpg/220px-Organ_grinder_with_monkey.jpg
<cmaloney> Fuck if I know
<cmaloney> Probably
<cmaloney> This is for Deepfield, so...
<cmaloney> https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/01/c2/f7/01c2f7c7cdb7a2c6129f3c4eab5062f8.jpg
<cmaloney> Today's twist on the fibonacci sequence: print the first number that has X digits in it
<cmaloney> also: not fizzbuzz, and adding English-comma-rules for a list.
<Zimdale> while still fibonacciing?
<cmaloney> Naturally
<Zimdale> Interesting
<cmaloney> So I looked up a fibonacci sequence online (brute force, recursive) and added logic for string length
<cmaloney> They had one for memoized versions but it was also a timed test and I knew the one worked.
<cmaloney> since I'm going to use it for my example code for my debugging talk
<cmaloney> Since apparently the only thing computers are good for are fib sequences.
<Zimdale> I mean that's all I ever do all day
<Zimdale> fibonacci as a service
<cmaloney> That and printing FIZZ BUZZ
<jrwren> how many digits? larger than int64? do you have ot use bigint?
<cmaloney> jrwren: Didn't say
<cmaloney> If it goes over bigint then it'll stack overflow
<cmaloney> and frankly that's not a problem for a 3 problem 45 minute test. :)
<cmaloney> code works for the tests provied.
<cmaloney> I programmed out of a paper bag. You didn't say it was Tyvek. :)
<razma> Hello
<mrgoodcat> hello
<Zimdale> hello
<greg-g> hello
<jrwren> hello!
<jrwren> new barbership quintet, right there.
<razma> heh.  I'm newer to linux and looking for a community of sorts
<jrwren> razma: we are that. Welcome.
<mrgoodcat> razma: i'd give you a proper welcome but my torch and pitchfork are in the shed and I don't really feel like going to get them so I guess i'll just settle with 'hello'
<razma> lol
<cmaloney> Just finished my interview
<jrwren> cmaloney: how did it go?
<rick_h> cmaloney: cheering from down here.
<cmaloney> meh
<cmaloney> It was processing data from an obviously messed up csv file
<cmaloney> while two people looked in via screen share
<cmaloney> Try it some time
<cmaloney> (oh, and then blank out about how Python dictionaries handle adding data without a key being present. That's a fun one too.)
<cmaloney> so I made code, and it looks like shit
<cmaloney> because stream-of-conciousness coding is what people want now
<Zimdale> Was that the "pair programming"?
<cmaloney> Yes
<Zimdale> did they contribute?
<cmaloney> Pair as in "you code on your machine, we watch voyeuristically"
<cmaloney> a bit
<cmaloney> It was sort of helpful, but kind of stressful
<Zimdale> "You code on your machine while we watch and make judgemental noises"
<mrgoodcat> had to do something similar while i was looking for the job i'm at now
<cmaloney> Or "What are you thinking now"?
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Fun stuff
<mrgoodcat> and the guy watching me code randomly said "sorry i walked away for a bit what did i miss?"
<jrwren> lol, yeah... you have to get used to explaining EVERYTHING as you are doing it... cuz they want to know what you are thinking at each step for that kind of interview.
<mrgoodcat> i was like um idk how long you've been gone
<jrwren> I pretend that I'm teaching 5th graders how to program when I'm those interview situations.
<cmaloney> I'm kind of an introverted coder though
<cmaloney> explaining as I'm going is not how I tend to think
<brousch__> Yuck
<cmaloney> Maybe if I were in "presenter mode"
<cmaloney> but I'm also under stress, so presenter mode tends to shut off
<mrgoodcat> when i'm preparing for interview i make screencasts for the wmu computer club
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: That's a good idea.
<mrgoodcat> they're all young and easily impressed and it helps get me into the mindset of explaining my code
<cmaloney> Ah well.
<mrgoodcat> apparently NYC just made it illegal to ask about previous salary in interviews
<mrgoodcat> speaking of job interviews
<cmaloney> Nice
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-04-08
<cmaloney> morning
<cmaloney> https://plus.google.com/+CraigMaloney/posts/T51CdoxA9Su
<gamerchick02> cleaning ALL THE THINGS today. first half done. taking break.
<greg-g> tax day for me
<gamerchick02> oh ugh
<cmaloney> wheee
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-04-09
<rick_h> evening
<rick_h> cmaloney: funny with the taco crawl
<jrwren> tax day for me too, but it only took a few hours. YAY
<jrwren> then... epic ride with the kiddo.
<cmaloney> rick_h: : )
<tony-smlr> getting ready to get ready for SMLR E232/233 (4/9/2017) Video:  Video http://youtu.be/fOu-vw-dz5A Audio: http://www.podcastdetroit.com/how-to-listen/listen-to-studio-3/
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-04-02
<waldo323> looking at the article from yesterday, are some of the items in the article in fact true or is it all made up?
<waldo323> article from jrwren : http://www.bfilipek.com/2018/04/deprecating-pointers.html#
<jrwren> AFAIK all of the items are true except for the main point of deprecating pointers.
<jrwren> weak_ptr, optional, reference_wrapper, not_null, unique_ptr, shared_ptr are all in std or common ext lib and recommended to use over raw pointers wherever possible.
<jrwren> shared_ptr in particular is the "use all" tool recommended these days.
<waldo323> thanks jrwren it got me thinking how the most believable lies include a lot of truth
<jrwren> well heck waldo323, you just described USA politics
<waldo323> I've been well saturated
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> crap w/ kernels pretty much describes a lot of shit
<jrwren> rick_h_: if you didn't know. I won the canonical NCAA bracket that Robbie runs. \m/  :)
<jrwren> even with the last game not played.
<waldo323> jrwren for the win!
<_stink_> sportsball expert!
<daemoneye> T-minus 7:15 for another space x launch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3niFzo5VLI
<jrwren> anything new or special about this one? will there be fairing retreval attempt?
<daemoneye> There will be no recovery of the first stage as they are trying a new return setup
<jrwren> oh? interesting!
<daemoneye> Yep
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-04-03
<rick_h_> jrwren: hah cool
<rick_h_> jrwren: congrats
<cmaloney> Good morning
<jrwren> Good Morning.
<daemoneye> moin cmaloney and jrwren
<cmaloney> Are we having fun yet?
<daemoneye> I am. Dunno about anyone else.
 * daemoneye is happily digging into the code of ceph
<cmaloney> any particular reason?
<daemoneye> Yeah. $job is paying me to do so... figuring out how ceph deals with permissions.
<waldo323> hopefully better morning to everyone else :)   oi, digging through log files and zenoss events
<waldo323> trying to figure out why they NFS server is periodically dreaming of being an airplane or trying to rev its motorcycle alter ego
<daemoneye> waldo323: I suspect it is just tired of being a NFS server
<waldo323> perhaps it needs an intervention
<daemoneye> I think it might.
<daemoneye> Anyone in the A2 area want to grab lunch around 11:30?
<cmaloney> THanks for the offer, but not in A2. :)
<daemoneye> Ahh okay. :-)
<waldo323> I'm not seeing any errors, and actually thought the disk group was connected with a different machine and saw some other messages which didn't look good on the wrong machine
<daemoneye> the machines are going rouge! RUN AWAY!
<waldo323> "kernel: hpilo" ... "Open could not dequeue a packet"
<daemoneye> :O
<waldo323> google hasn't been helpful so far
<waldo323> i have only found others with that in their logs from years ago but no solutions yet
 * daemoneye nods
<waldo323> ...oh someone is saying those are informational and can be ignored
<daemoneye> ohh
<jrwren> daemoneye: that sounds FUN!  But... I didn't think ceph did anything with permissions. :)
<daemoneye> jrwren: It does! You can specify that only one UID can work with a given key. So if I state that UID 1001 can read/write to the ceph server, I cannot let any other UID write there, including root.
<jrwren> daemoneye: they aren't unix uids are they? they are ceph uids?  are we talking ceph rbd, object, or FS?
<daemoneye> They are, from what I can tell, unix uids
<jrwren> Is there an idmap?
<cmaloney> are they internally unix uids or what jrwren said? :)
<daemoneye> I'm not sure. This is what I am going off of. http://lists.ceph.com/pipermail/ceph-users-ceph.com/2017-February/016173.html
<jrwren> ah, ok. I found some answers to my question in the docs: "A Ceph Storage Cluster user is not the same as a Ceph Object Storage user or a Ceph Filesystem user. The Ceph Object Gateway uses a Ceph Storage Cluster user to communicate between the gateway daemon and the storage cluster, but the gateway has its own user management functionality for end users. The Ceph Filesystem uses POSIX semantics. The
<jrwren> user space associated with the Ceph Filesystem is not the same as a Ceph Storage Cluster user."
<cmaloney> So there is a mapping
<daemoneye> Yep
<cmaloney> per storage cluster
<jrwren> its CephFS only.
<jrwren> Makes sense.
<jrwren> how big is your ceph cluster?
<daemoneye> We have about 15PB.
<cmaloney> curious how the storage cluster users map across different machines
<cmaloney> or is it one of those "you are UID 1001 across each of these machines that you're mapped to"
<daemoneye> cmaloney: there is a metadata server that manages that for you.
<cmaloney> Ah, OK
<cmaloney> so a special driver on the mounting machine then?
<daemoneye> Yeah. There is some code that wraps around fuse.
<daemoneye> There are three types of servers for ceph. One for the storage of data, one for metadata, and one for monitoring the system.
<jrwren> daemoneye: 15PB is a lot. What kind of network is it on?
<jrwren> cmaloney: MDS not necessarily on the mounting machine, other than the in-kernel cephfs driver, AFAIK
<jrwren> Ceph is awesome, but the network gear to run it reasonably is expensive AFAICT
<daemoneye> jrwren: It is split between UMich, Wayne State, and MSU.
<daemoneye> We have a 100GB link, a couple 40GB links, and a couple 80GB links
<brousch> You can't keep UM and MSU data in the same cluster. It will destroy itself.
<jrwren> daemoneye: ugh, WAN ceph? isn't that not recommended?
<jrwren> daemoneye: I meant more like: what is the local net like for local cluster.
<daemoneye> Dunno if it's not recommended, but I could see why it wouldn't be.
<jrwren> daemoneye: I guess I mean each server with ceph storage nodes in them. What are their connectivity.
 * daemoneye *cough*MSU*cough*
<jrwren> yeah, the 100GB, 40GB and 2-80GB aren't dedicated for the ceph, are they?
<daemoneye> jrwren: Ohh, I believe they are 100GB on the LAN
<jrwren> WOW!
<jrwren> that is awesome.
<daemoneye> yeah
<daemoneye> It's fun seeing 40TB go across a 100GB link
<jrwren> not even AWS uses that.
<jrwren> oh, i assume we were just writing B when we meant b for all of those network speeds.
<daemoneye> Yep. Well, UMich lawyers like things fast and stable. And we don't want to piss them off.
<daemoneye> and yes
<cmaloney> That's still pretty damn fast
<daemoneye> I love how the drivers for a portable DVD writer comes on a CD...
<cmaloney> So this is one humongous Ceph cluster between all of the schools? What sorts of data are on this thing?
<daemoneye> That it is. And it is being designed for physics computation that various companies want to do.
<daemoneye> It is a shame I am only here for another six months or so... Got a 1 year term limited gig working on it, so I am already looking for new work.
<jrwren> sounds pretty darned awesome.
<daemoneye> yeah, it's fun
<jrwren> with that much ceph experience, sounds like you could just go to redhat and say, "give me a job, K?"
<daemoneye> lol
<daemoneye> I would, but the code is awful IMO.
<cmaloney> heh
<daemoneye> Documentation is lacking, for about three months I was finding a bug a week, and the comments within the code were marginal at best.
<daemoneye> And this is all on the stable release, not the repo head.
<daemoneye> If I had the time and energy to do it, I'd probably spend my time cleaning it all up.
<daemoneye> :o
<daemoneye> welcome back cmaloney
<cmaloney> tx
<jrwren> its amazing RH doesn't invest in cleaning it up, isn't it?
<daemoneye> jrwren: yeah.
<cmaloney> Since RH bought it they may not be aware of the code quality. :)
<daemoneye> That's possible
<jrwren> um, they are aware.
<jrwren> heck, RH has a track record of buying things with exceptionally poor code quality.
<daemoneye> And the line count for some of the files makes some folks I know gag.
<jrwren> jboss, and that other FS.
<jrwren> well, that is just personal prerence and they need to get over that.
<jrwren> style is not necessarily a code quality issue.
<daemoneye> Yep. One file is almost 12KLOC
<jrwren> no big deal.
<daemoneye> Only issue I have with the code are comments like this: "/* -- FIXME -- */"
<jrwren> now, if that is 1 function OTOH :)
<daemoneye> jrwren: naw, it's about 6 classes and a couple dozen functions.
<daemoneye> And I can see the reason behind multiple pairs of public and private sections of a class.
<jrwren> a couple dozen functions? so... 500line function average? ok, that is bad.
<daemoneye> Yep
<daemoneye> I know it can be improved greatly.
<daemoneye> And that is coming from someone who hasn't touched C++ in five or six years
<jrwren> were you looking specifically at cephfs code or other areas?
<jrwren> rbd seems to be their core. i'm not surprised cephfs is secondary.
<daemoneye> I was looking at the ceph fuse client code
<jrwren> oh, is that even core project code?
<daemoneye> I believe so, as it is the common way to mount the fs on a client machine.
<daemoneye> Or at least one of the common ways
<jrwren> it is? I thought there was a kernel module
<daemoneye> There is if you want to do a kernel mount. There is also a userland mount version
<jrwren> I guess both would be important depending on the client.
<daemoneye> Mostly for those poor souls who don't get the joys of having sudo rights.
<cmaloney> Looks like the code is a combination of C++ and Python?
<daemoneye> Yep.
<daemoneye> And I have found minor hints of java as well placed here and there
<cmaloney> I did not expect to see PYthon in there. :)
<daemoneye> Ahh. Python is there as a way for folks to manage the cluster.
<cmaloney> right
<cmaloney> Man, I do not know C++ at all
<jrwren> cmaloney: no one does, not even bjarn :p
<daemoneye> I am the same way
<daemoneye> lol jrwren
<cmaloney> Of course I'm just picking random files to see what's going on so it's all line noise
<cmaloney> I took a look at Firefox just to see if I could read the code and see what it does. Blender as well. I wept.
<jrwren> cmaloney: well, like daemoneye said, that is *bad* C++ code.
<jrwren> cmaloney: there is good c++ code out there from which you can learn.
<daemoneye> cmaloney: this is probably some of the better code. https://github.com/ceph/ceph/blob/master/src/ceph_fuse.cc
<cmaloney> It looks like it's mostly warning messages about known kernel issues. :)
 * cmaloney packs up the computers and becomes a farmer
<daemoneye> aww.
 * daemoneye offers cmaloney a pint
<cmaloney> heh
<daemoneye> It is the only thing that gets me through sometimes
<daemoneye> That and the occasional nice cigar or pipe
<cmaloney> I think the major problen is my eyes don't like C++ syntax at all
<cmaloney> it's too busy
<daemoneye> Yeah. I can agree with that
<cmaloney> I think Python has spoiled me a little too much
<cmaloney> I mean, I can still read C code, but that's pretty much a HLA anyway. ;)
<daemoneye> lol
<cmaloney> But C++ objects never clicked with me
<daemoneye> Hmm... how much do I want to punish myself tonight? Have to do a reinstall of my OS. Do I stay with Debian? Or do I try to install slackware or Gentoo on the machine?
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> I mean, C++ always starts with "OK, we're going to do 'Hello world'". And it starts easy enough.
<cmaloney> Then they add objects and it's like someone kicked over a bunch of alphabet blocks into the page
<daemoneye> lol, that's actually quite true
<daemoneye> And probably went with "fsck this noise!"
<daemoneye> Well, time to go forge for food. later everyone!
<cmaloney> have fun!
<daemoneye> will do!
<jrwren> C++ objects should be simple if you think of them like a C struct with a vtable.
<jrwren> its the C++ metaprogramming that makes my head hurt.
<cmaloney> I think the other problem with C++ was I was learning it at the same time as Java
<cmaloney> so I've kinda conflated the two as a bundle of hot mess
<jrwren> oh yeah, that would be TOUGH
<cmaloney> It wasn't until Python that I really understood OO
<cmaloney> just in ime for everyone to start on again about functional programming
<cmaloney> ;)
<jrwren> lol, well not the Go people.
<cmaloney> Is Go not particularly functional?
<jrwren> its not.
<jrwren> in fact, it is anti functional.
<jrwren> "use a for loop" is the go way instead of passing a function to map.
<jrwren> "use a for loop with an if statement" is the go way instead of passing a function to filter.
<cmaloney> Interesting
<Scary_Guy> wow, busy morning
<jrwren> someone with a real world ceph implementation, not the crap I used in teh past :p
<daemoneye> Yep. We are social today
<Scary_Guy> apparently, also that you on the bridge?
<daemoneye> Yeah, that was me. I'll get back on
<Scary_Guy> I'll call in once I find my phone
<daemoneye> cool
<Scary_Guy> 248-724-2600 for anyone else that wants to join us on the #mi2600 (ofdoom.org) partyline
<jrwren> is there a discord?
<daemoneye> not that I know of
<Scary_Guy> old school PBX as far as I know
<cmaloney> heh
<jrwren> classic
<jrwren> maybe there is an discord asterisk bridge.
<Scary_Guy> https://github.com/42wim/matterbridge
<Scary_Guy> so, no but maybe you can bridge something else to it?
<cmaloney> Nice. Apparently good ol' Amazon Music isn't allowing folks to upload their music anymore
<cmaloney> probably because of licensing nonsense
<Scary_Guy> Amazon what? ;_
<Scary_Guy> ;)
<cmaloney> Apparently I have uploaded music to there in the past but I'll be damned if I know what that is.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-04-04
<waldo323> good morning?
<waldo323> er rather I hope everyone is having a good morning
<cmaloney> Good morning
<daemoneye> morning waldo323 and myself
<daemoneye> and cmaloney
<waldo323> good morning to you daemoneye
 * daemoneye offers waldo323 some tea
 * waldo323 sips tea
<waldo323> thank you
<daemoneye> You're welcome. :-)
<jrwren_> do you take sugar?
<daemoneye> Sometimes
<waldo323> I more often put honey in my tea
<waldo323> completely unrelated, just had another one of those moments when googling for a work related question sent me to a forum which sent me to a YouTube video of someone I know/we have had present at mug
<daemoneye> nice!
<cmaloney> waldo323: That's awesome!
<jrwren> hrm, anyone else having connection issues? any comcast users?
<waldo323> our comcast line looks alright
<waldo323> but I don't know how far away you are from me jrwren
<jrwren> yeah, and things seem fine for the past hour.
<jrwren> gittr and slack both were messed up.
<waldo323> :-\
<cmaloney> I think gittr was just messed up in general
<cmaloney> I don't think I lost connectivity but the IRC bridge was disconnecting because of TLS errors
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-04-05
<cmaloney> Apparently Dustin Kirkland is now ex Canonical
<cmaloney> Good morning
<jrwren_> Yes, interesting to see Dustin Kirkland go.
<rick_h_> yea
<cmaloney> definitely interesting times ahead.
<cmaloney> I'm slightly ticked that the ubuntu toolchain test PPA doesn't appear to have been updated since spectre / meltdown
<cmaloney> since it seems that any driver compiled with them is blacklisted by the kernel
<jrwren_> who runs that PPA?
<cmaloney> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gcc-4.8/+bug/1750937
<cmaloney> apparently someone who thinks that Bionic is the only release worth updating
<cmaloney> https://askubuntu.com/questions/1009725/login-loop-after-upgrading-to-4-4-0-116-kernel-graphical-login-screen-black
<cmaloney> Well that was a fun hour. :-P
<jrwren_> what you do cmaloney ?
<jrwren_> re: those dev tools... ugh dkms is the worst :)
<cmaloney> I reverted the ppa using ppa-purge
<cmaloney> and reinstalled the kernel / nvidia drivers
<cmaloney> honestly if AMD / ATI has better drivers than nvidia that would get me to switch back in a heartbeat
<jrwren_> oh man... so good!  http://rachelbythebay.com/w/2018/04/05/bangpatch/
<Scary_Guy> speaking of spooked / molten https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/04/04/intel_spectre_microcode_updates/
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-04-06
<waldo323> good morning
<waldo323> 'less secure' seems like a bad thing to run, I should use more instead
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> I love this requirement:
<cmaloney> "Understand and write code. Something like Python, Ruby, Node.js, Java and/or Javascript."
<Zimdale> Well that's a somewhat low bar at least
<cmaloney> But under "essential job functions":
<cmaloney> "Thought leader on the future technologies used for environment management, automation, monitoring, and self-healing."
<cmaloney> And under "Responsibilities":
<cmaloney> "Provides basic work direction and support to small groups of usually skilled and semi-skilled employees."
<Zimdale> Jeesh
<Zimdale> Seems like a good company
<Zimdale> It really makes me wonder what type of people companies like that get
<cmaloney> https://www.pythonjobs.com/jobs/4697848-devops-engineer-w2-only-no-sponsorship-available-at-ektello
<cmaloney> Funnily enough it's not _bad_ overall
<Zimdale> ahhh it's a devops job
<Zimdale> that makes more sense
<Zimdale> though that pay is pretty low for devops
<jrwren_> is devops pay that high?
<cmaloney> Not sure what the going rate is honestly
<cmaloney> Though I did see a developer role that was between $50-$70K that seemed low
<jrwren_> this looks more like cloudops than devops to me, not that there should be a difference.
<cmaloney> It looks like a "we just had someone leave and this is what they did, we think"
<jrwren_> that is a WEIRD posting, becuase it never actually describes a job.
<jrwren_> it lists some functions and requirements.
<cmaloney> bingo. :)
<cmaloney> "please fill this hole that previous person left"
<jrwren_> yup
<jrwren_> and they couldn't even write a description for that.
<Scary_Guy> "for less pay"
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-04-07
<rick_h_> evening
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-04-08
<_stink__> yo
<_stink__> how was the trip?
<rick_h_> it was good stuff
<rick_h_> though I'm pissed to come home with snow on the ground
<rick_h_> https://photos.app.goo.gl/GpdNxoHRQnzK8mpB3 got to do some biking
<rick_h_> and hiking https://photos.app.goo.gl/mhwItf0EwGtuSKrU2
<_stink__> i was hoping you'd bring warm weather with you
<jrwren_>  load average: 277.06, 276.72, 275.47     something happened to my server, but I have no idea what.
<jrwren_> might be netatalk going crazy. UGH
<cmaloney> rick_h_: nice!
<cmaloney> Glad to see Michael wasn't sick the whole trip
<rick_h_> Heh yeah, so glad that sickness passed
<cmaloney> morning
<_stink_> yo
<cmaloney> Howdy-doodlie-do
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-03-30
<Scary_Guy> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tIYrjBEczE
<cmaloney> I've seen those platters
<cmaloney> like cake box carriers with loads of platters  in there
<Dekkard> good morning
<Scary_Guy> Morning
<Dekkard> today we learn weechat
<Dekkard> because we can
<rick_h_> heh yea moved to that recently
<Dekkard> next project will be to enable port forwarding on the home router to stream from vlc
<Dekkard> i suck at networking
<cmaloney> Weechat is what I use as well
<Dekkard> im an old fan of BitchX and irssi.. ive heard weechat is easier
<Dekkard> actually, I'm just old..
<Scary_Guy> weechat gang checking in
<Scary_Guy> ./script and /fset are your friends
 * Dekkard taking notes
<Scary_Guy> Also Bitlbee is nice
<Dekkard> multi platform and multi protocols..nice
<Scary_Guy> There's an android "client" that will connect to this via SSH too.  However I also suck at networking.
<Scary_Guy> Yeah, though I do think Finch is cooler Bitlbee has support for more things.  OTR works great too.  Though I'm not sure which has a better lack of OMEMO support.
<Scary_Guy> I wish there was more support for that in general, but it's a slow process.
<Dekkard> i dont im other than on the phone..no workgroups or anything
<Scary_Guy> Just about anything these days is more secure than standard SMS though.
<Scary_Guy> I'm a big fan of Signal.
<cmaloney> Yeah, I juse JuiceSSH on my phone to connect to my home machine
<cmaloney> which runs weechat via tmux
<Dekkard> lol..I cant imagine telling mom that she should use signal
<cmaloney> Signal is actually one of the easier ones
<Scary_Guy> I don't see why not, my mom does.
<cmaloney> fear for my friends that I make use Jami. ;)
<Scary_Guy> My dad too and he doesn't know how to copy files.
<cmaloney> https://jami.net/
<Dekkard> my mom is 86..she texts family only..and we know it works client to client, but the encryption requires that everyone uses ot right?
<Scary_Guy> I've toyed with the android client.  If it's too annoying for me to use there is no hope for normal people.
<Scary_Guy> Yes, but the plus side is it'll fall back to standard SMS if they don't.
<Scary_Guy> Also they have a nice community and are very accepting of bug reports/suggestions/etc... from what I've seen.
<Dekkard> wasnt jami called "ring"?
<dzho> yes
<dzho> I didn't find Signal too disorienting to install on the phone that runs with a google account
<dzho> my main phone does not log into a google account persistently, though, and that is my default posture for my devices.
<Scary_Guy> It's come a long way.  Don't even need the google anymore.
<dzho> oh?
<Scary_Guy> You can download the .apk directly
<Dekkard> i have no probs with signal as far as usability, its just that most that I know are "i have nothing to hide"
<Scary_Guy> You don't even need Play Services.
<dzho> there's also the need to use SMS
<Scary_Guy> It still falls back to that for non Signal contacts.
<dzho> which, you know, if you already have SMS what's the point, at least in some people's eyes
<dzho> well, it's not just a fallback
<Scary_Guy> Yeah, not enough are concerned about privacy.
<dzho> you need it to activate
<Scary_Guy> You need a number to activate, yeah.
<jrwren> Dekkard: i'm old too. using irssi here, don't care to change.
<Scary_Guy> irssi is okay too, I tried it and liked this better though.
<mrgoodcat> i started with bitchx, switched to irssi, and now i use weechat
<Scary_Guy> I started off on mIRC
<mrgoodcat> can confirm it is the easiest to use
<Dekkard> jrwren:  good on yer bruh..im just so fricken bored
<Dekkard> i actually bought a mir licence
<Dekkard> mirc
<Scary_Guy> This also has a Signal-CLI bridge too, but it's a pain and it's just easier to use the GUI desktop client.
<Scary_Guy> Did you get Winzip/WinRAR too?
<Scary_Guy> :P
<Dekkard> lol.. nope
<jrwren> bored?
<Dekkard> ...way
<jrwren> i use windows minimally. really only to play video games.
<Dekkard> got furloughed last week..loosing my mind
<jrwren> i started off on ircc, back when that was the only client I knew. ircc the client for ircd.
<jrwren> ah, I've been playing LOTS of video games, even though I'm working full time.
<jrwren> the distraction is good for ignoring the state of the world.
<Dekkard> im doing my best to do the same
<Dekkard> i see there is a snap for signal desktop
<cmaloney> Heh, I've used a bunch of IRC clients, including xchat and pidgin
<Scary_Guy> We had a small contingent on IRC at OakTech.  It was fun chatting with people in the same room over it.
<cmaloney> along with bitchx, irssi, and others that I'm probably forgetting
<cmaloney> Now let's talk about email clients. ;)
<cmaloney> zmail. ;)
<Scary_Guy> Remember when Mozilla/Firefox had a client?
<Dekkard> any of you guys know Raphael Mudge?
<Scary_Guy> I don't
<Dekkard> backwhen firefox wanted to be Opera?
<Scary_Guy> Must have missed that.  It's weird though, I've used it pretty much since Netscape Navigator.
 * Dekkard had a netscape t-shirt
<cmaloney> https://github.com/argv01/zmail
<Scary_Guy> Had?  I'd have held onto that gem.
<Dekkard> it fell to dust years ago
<Scary_Guy> The washing machine is a cruel mistress though.
<cmaloney> Yeah, I used the NEtscape Mail Client
<cmaloney> t was OK
<Dekkard> true dat
<cmaloney> I still use Thunderbird and Mutt
<Scary_Guy> I've got an AMD K6-II shirt that's been beat to hell.  It used to be black but is now a faded gray.
<Dekkard> wow dude.. that was my first computer
<Scary_Guy> It was my second, got it from a mom and pop shop that I later got my first real job at.
<Dekkard> no name beige box
<Dekkard> lol
<Scary_Guy> Well, it was my third
<Dekkard> 200 mhz
<Scary_Guy> First was a Compudyne 386.  Second was a Packard Bell 486 that I later stuck a turbo on.
<Scary_Guy> Turbo chips were neat, fan was literally built right onto the CPU.
<Dekkard> so fan dies cpu goes up in a blaze
<Scary_Guy> Pretty much, but that thing lasted for a good long while.
<Dekkard> my second was an athlon 900
<Dekkard> built it from parts from  place in utica
<Dekkard> used the case from the K6
<Scary_Guy> My fourth was a dual P3 450 Gigabyte GA6BXD that I built myself at that mom and pop shop.
<Dekkard> wow.. seems cobalt strike has been acquired by HelpSystems
<Dekkard> s0..once upon a time there was a mirc scripter named 'Butane
<Dekkard> he was considered '7334
<Scary_Guy> BOFH?
<Scary_Guy> :P
<Dekkard> so this guy( from royal oak) goes into the airforce.. does his time
<Dekkard> no..
<Dekkard> InfoSec
<Scary_Guy> Oooh
<Dekkard> i think he atually did some time in D.C...later wrote a pentesting tool called Armitage, after some anime
<Dekkard> Than wrote Cobalt Strike..There are quite a few videos of its use on youtube
<Dekkard> Its fiacinating.. just shows you how rediculous hacking is in movies etc
<Scary_Guy> Yeah, I love that stuff
<Dekkard> so.. its 3,500.00 per user
<Dekkard> plus yearly renewals
<Dekkard> and he just got bought...
<Scary_Guy> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HluANRwPyNo
<Dekkard> Cha-Ching!!
<Dekkard> look at the stuff on in memory evasion..
<jrwren> cobalt strike eh? I dont' know many red team tools
<Scary_Guy> To be fair, Cantor Dust DOES look like that hacking BS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bM3Gut1hIk
<jrwren> looks like a great tool. I hope he got a lot of money for it.
<Dekkard> from what I've read, there was a crack floating around and some peeps were actually using  it to do some under the table red teaming
<Dekkard> wink wink
<Scary_Guy> There's always a crack floating around.
<Scary_Guy> Half the reason I'm on IRC
<Dekkard> o_0
<Scary_Guy> -_-
<Scary_Guy> Also skip to 22m on that video for the pretty
<Dekkard> very gibson
<Dekkard> cyberspace
<Scary_Guy> But actually useful.  Too bad it never came to be there either.  I hear bin-walk bin-glide do similar things though.  Both are on Github.
<Dekkard> hmmm twit tv has an appearance
<Dekkard> 2014
<Scary_Guy> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-4BFfdGufo
<Scary_Guy> I miss TechTV
<Scary_Guy> G4 killed that good and dead
<Dekkard> yep
<Dekkard> twit isnt horrible
<Scary_Guy> It isn't, but I still miss TechTV.
<Dekkard> https://twit.tv/shows/coding-101/episodes/29?autostart=false
<Scary_Guy> It was nice having it on cable.
<Scary_Guy> Though now I just want cable to die.
<Scary_Guy> Also, as long as we're talking about old dead shows https://archive.org/details/computerchronicles
<Dekkard> wow thta abcient
<Dekkard> thats ancient
<cmaloney> I never watched it in the day, but I've enjoyed watching them
<Dekkard> leo laport's laptop looks to havean Enlightenment logo on it
<cmaloney> I think that's the TWiT network logo
<Dekkard> port forwarding coming up on twit..doesnt look like the same
<Dekkard> I can see the sort of cocked small case e
<cmaloney> If it's the thinkpad then it's a TWiT logo
<Dekkard> right you are
<cmaloney> It's just inside of a gear
<Dekkard> ahhh
<Dekkard> pong
<rick_h_> ping?
<Dekkard> just rtying to stay live
<rick_h_> ugh, at that point where I'm deleting cranky tweeks
<rick_h_> Yay Monday!
<Dekkard> cranky tweek??
<rick_h_> tweet
 * rick_h_ +1 the crank
<Dekkard> heh
<Dekkard> btw.. ya all should check out fosstodon
<jrwren> happy early 20.04 beta this week. are you excited?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-03-31
<Dekkard> lol
<Dekkard> im running manjaro
<Dekkard> was running lts...didnt handlemultimedia very well
<Dekkard> lots of lock ups, stuttering.
<Dekkard> so.. trying the new flavor of the week
<jrwren> is there a name for when over compressed video has the effect that parts of the changes of the video trails other parts?
<Scary_Guy> Artifacting
<Scary_Guy> Well, that's when digital video messes up in general.  Bleed?  Artifact Bleed?  I need to look into it more now.
<Scary_Guy> The glitch art community might have a more definitive answer.
<Scary_Guy> datamoshing
<Scary_Guy> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glitch_art
<rick_h_> morning
<Scary_Guy> https://discord.gg/B3mNzfh I got bored and made a server for City Club.  This message is mostly for jrwren but anyone else who wants to come is welcome.
<jrwren> i might have been thinking of block boundary artifacts.
<jrwren> thanks for the links Scary_Guy
<jrwren> oh man, i'm afraid to join a CC discord ;)
<Dekkard> so....i wonder if microcenter has an os2 to usb adaptor
 * Dekkard feels like getting the model M out of the basement
<cmaloney> PS/2 you mean
<cmaloney> Unless you're porting the whole of OS/2 to USB
<Dekkard> yes..ps2
<Dekkard> porting 0s2....funny
 * Dekkard looking for os2 virtualbox image
<Dekkard> found it
<Dekkard> useless
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-04-01
<Scary_Guy> I've got about 5 of those things.  I could probably part with one.  I also have a PS/2 to DIN5 adapter too.
<Scary_Guy> That one I covet though.  MY PRESSSIOUSSSS
<cmaloney> morning
<cmaloney> Reminder that CHC is tonight
<cmaloney> link forthcoming
<rick_h_> morning
<cmaloney> howdy
<cmaloney> PyOhio just canceled their in-person event
<greg-g> :( but sensible
<greg-g> I'd be surprised if there will be any real in-person tech confs before 2021
<greg-g> ("real" is my couching term so I can decide what a real one is so I'm not wrong)
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> Yeah, I think any gathering is pretty much moot at this point until we get some more certainty
<Dekkard> ya think?
<cmaloney> Just restating the obvious
<cmaloney> as is my wont
 * cmaloney plans on being a tech journalist and pundit when I grow up
<cmaloney> where I can get fat stacks by making a salient point about something today by recalling a 20 minute tangent about some old technology
<Dekkard> im in
<Dekkard> " Linux set for world domination"
<Dekkard> film @11:00
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-04-02
<Dekkard> good morning
<Dekkard> totally missed that yesterday was April foolsday
<jrwren> did you get fooled?
<Dekkard> heh
<Dekkard> it was pretty much SSDD
<Dekkard> did half of vimtutor again
<Dekkard> installed virtualbox
<Dekkard> going to see if I can find some wierd and arcane images
<Dekkard> i would do something with containers, but dont fundamentally understand enough to give a shit
<Dekkard> as iundersand..you can run an application now, without an underlying OS??
<Dekkard> <---clueless
<jrwren> nah.
<jrwren> well, i guess it depends on what you mean by container :)
<Dekkard> well....docker or kubernetes I think
<Dekkard> as opposed to running a full fledged VM
<greg-g> "it's just a process"
<Dekkard> i think im getting that its a process in its own userspace..yeah?
<cmaloney> morning
<jrwren> yup, with its own filesystem image
<Dekkard> ....limited filesystem..ja?
<Dekkard> using system resources, on either bare metal, or as part ov a VM
<Dekkard>  ergo hybrid cloud?
<jrwren> i've no idea what you just said.
<Dekkard> oh queso we have the cloude, azure, AWS, etc..sime things running out there in"the cloud" as VMs, some running as Containers some doing both.
<Dekkard> cloude is french for cloud
<Dekkard> ..no it isnt
<jrwren> ð
<Dekkard> ok, that just isnt right..
<Dekkard> i dont have that key
<jrwren> at least they escaped the FL stay at home order, lol.
<jrwren> oops, misdir
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-04-04
<Dekkard> happy saturday
<cmaloney> woo woo
<Dekkard> wowsie
