#ubports 2017-12-11
<tgBot> Ion S was added by: Ion S
<tgBot> <Ion S> hi!
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> Hi there!
<tgBot> <onajjar> Iâve got a question, is it possible we could see Ubuntu Touch OS on any of the Blackberry 10 devices ? Like the passport?
<tgBot> <dohbee> @onajjar, did they publish the device tree for those?
<tgBot> <dohbee> need kernel + drivers and firmware blobs to be able to do a port
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @Hunter616, mx4??
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> i am running ubports on mx4, not canonical image, very nice, and flashed with the gui ubports installer
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> other than that i still hv an old stock image for that phone
<tgBot> <milkor73> @Ion S, Hello Ion and welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    â¦ To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
<tgBot> <Big ET> Hei, about the push server, I am using also gmail on my UT the pushing is working for now, do you guys know what we need to ask google for to have push moved to the ubport push server?
<tgBot> <milkor73> @Big ET, This is a question for @Flohack /Florian, i am PM him this way to not get lost your question
<tgBot> <Flohack> @Big ET, I dont think Google is pushing these messages, that must be a local daemon polling from gmail and generating a local notifiction
<tgBot> okaantara was added by: okaantara
<tgBot> <peternerlich> Hello @okaantara and welcome! I'm part of the UBports welcoming team. â¦ To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
<tgBot> <peternerlich> Also, you might be overwhelmed by the amount of messages going through our groups at times, but still interested to stay up to date about our project. In this case, lucky you, there's a brand new News Channel! @UBports_News
<tgBot> <Rawcode> I Guys, why do I get decryption error in loquilm?
<tgBot> Marc was added by: Marc
<tgBot> <peternerlich> Hello Marc and welcome! I'm part of the UBports welcoming team. â¦ To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
<tgBot> <peternerlich> Also, you might be overwhelmed by the amount of messages going through our groups at times, but still interested to stay up to date about our project. In this case, lucky you, there's a brand new News Channel! @UBports_News
<tgBot> <Marc> Also hi here
<tgBot> <milkor73> @Rawcode, Do you use WhatsApp in another device with SIM card? If so that is the problem.
<tgBot> <Rawcode> Nope, I've installed whatsapp in my tablet, but this morning I've  installed loquilm in my phone
<tgBot> <milkor73> The best would be to ask at OpenStore, but I remember there or in Spanish group they said to get loquim working you have to cancel, delete the account on the other devices. Not UT problem, but WhatsApp rules.
<tgBot> <Rawcode> Understand
<tgBot> <Rawcode> Thanks
<tgBot> <milkor73> here is the link to loqui.im group: https://telegram.me/joinchat/BlpqfQk1L0l0PJTnM02yxQ
<tgBot> <Rawcode> Thanks :)
<tgBot> <Rawcode> @milkor73, Is it enough to uninstall the app?
<tgBot> <Rawcode> Ok
<tgBot> <milkor73> I will try to ask at spanish group
<tgBot> <milkor73> @Rawcode, so the answear: in accordance to MD / @malditobastardo you have to disable the SIM conected to the Whatsapp on your tablet and enable it on your N5 with UT, you have to keep the SIM in your N5. Nevertheless it become very often crazy, especially when connected to mobile internet LTE, 3G. Another solutions is the web app Whatsapp, I remember @samzn  was trying to develop more user friendly design for it. and do not forget, if some of your
<tgBot> friends want to send you PM he cand find you on Telegram!!! ð
<tgBot> <dohbee> @Flohack, Indeed, they are not push. Neither is Twitter. Only telegram is push.
<tgBot> <Mario Grasso> (Voice, 499s)https://irc.ubports.com/dK3JvuVS/file_2819
<tgBot> <neothethird> @Mario Grasso, what's going on
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> I think this is a modern pocket dial? ;)
<tgBot> <Mario Grasso> @neothethird, Sorry, i pushed the button without any intention
<tgBot> <olisax> lol
<tgBot> <Mario Grasso> (Sticker, 512x512) https://irc.ubports.com/IkSK9ICi/file_2820
<tgBot> <neothethird> @Mario Grasso, haha, ok, at least we got an interesting insight to your life
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> @wayneoutthere, We need a new term for this.... "I pocket messaged you"?
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> I pocket Telegrammed you?
<tgBot> <Flohack> I pocketed you
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> hahaha
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> nice!
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> done. it's law.  ship it
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> @Flohack, this allows for all future pocket fails
<tgBot> <Flohack> hehe
<tgBot> <unknown> Sorry I clicked on a wrong blue text
<tgBot> <dohbee> i wrote a small shell script to replace you, stored it on a flash, and pocketed you
<tgBot> Yu Owen was added by: Yu Owen
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> @Yu Owen, Hi Yu and welcome! I'm part of the UBports welcoming team. â¦ To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and subscribe to the news feed by clicking this: https://t.me/ubports_news Thanks again for joining us! :)
<tgBot> Miguel GutiÃ©rrez was added by: Miguel GutiÃ©rrez
<tgBot> <peternerlich> Hello Miguel and welcome! I'm part of the UBports welcoming team. â¦ To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
<tgBot> <peternerlich> Also, you might be overwhelmed by the amount of messages going through our groups at times, but still interested to stay up to date about our project. In this case, lucky you, there's a brand new News Channel! @UBports_News
<tgBot> <XavierXX> is there anyway to dual boot buntu touch?
<tgBot> <peternerlich> @XavierXX, I don't think so, it is at least not designed to do so. It might very well be possible with the right modification, but I bet there is no one in this community who could now say "Yes, I know what you have to do to make this" â no even starting on what unexpected problems might arise from this
<tgBot> <XavierXX> How different is the file structure?
<tgBot> <peternerlich> @XavierXX, I think the issue is rather with the absence of a typical BIOS as on computers, so you need a very different approach to just get some basic functions working in parallel
<tgBot> <XavierXX> i think EFIDroid may be a sollution then?
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> Help with using a multiboot is welcome
<tgBot> <XavierXX> (Photo, 720x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/zZ81CWrZ/file_2822.jpg
<tgBot> <XavierXX> (Photo, 720x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/Bilv0B8k/file_2824.jpg
<tgBot> <XavierXX> (Photo, 720x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/veXr0Tgi/file_2826.jpg
<tgBot> <XavierXX> EFIdroid
<tgBot> <XavierXX> what exactly does Ubuntu touch change?
<tgBot> <XavierXX> it also allows seperate recoveries  between roms
<tgBot> <XavierXX> so would it maybe be a good idea for the ubuntu touch devs to get in touch with the developer of EFIdroid?
<tgBot> <Javacookies> what device do you have? you can try MultiROM
<tgBot> <XavierXX> I tried multirom multiple times in the past and i always got the same result unfortunately
<tgBot> <XavierXX> and a oneplus one
<tgBot> <Javacookies> I don't have oneplus one but MultiROM has been working on my Nexus 7 and Nexus 5
<tgBot> <Javacookies> there's a modified apk of MultiROM that uses UBPorts
<tgBot> <XavierXX> for anyone who's intrested this is the slack link to EFIdroid; efidroid.slack.com
<tgBot> <wilder_Hund> @bhdouglass â¦  i have installed  â¦ https://docs.ubports.com/en/latest/appdev/clickable/setup.html and run it with these result: â¦ "cannot stat '/home/dreamland/ut-app-template/build/app.bhdouglass_1.0_armhf.click': No such file or directory â¦ Command 'adb push /home/dreamland/ut-app-template/build/app.bhdouglass_1.0_armhf.click /home/phablet/' returned non-zero exit status 1" â¦ What can i do? Thx.
<tgBot> <bhdouglass> @wilder_Hund, Can you send me your clickable.json and manifest.json?
<tgBot> <wilder_Hund> done
<tgBot> <nfsprodriver> @samzn What about the process of your WhatsApp implementation? Can we help?
<tgBot> <samzn> I used to inject custom js and css code into the webapp since whatsapp is disgustingly proprietary
<tgBot> <samzn> But it's obsfucrated and it doesn`t work anymore
<tgBot> <XavierXX> it would be awsome if the ubports installer would regocnize the special efidroid fastboot mode as that would enable easy installation in a seperate partition
<tgBot> <XavierXX> or is there any manual installation method available?
<tgBot> <nfsprodriver> @samzn Ah, okay! Thanks anyway for your attempts!
<tgBot> <samzn> Seriously, screw whatsapp
<tgBot> <samzn> It's ridiculous how much dependency people have on it
<tgBot> <samzn> A lot of people would use ubuntu & sfos if it had this simple shitty chat app
<tgBot> <XavierXX> why  it's shitty why don't they just use IRC
<tgBot> <dohbee> whatsapp is proprietary and they ban unofficial clients, and the people using them
<tgBot> <samzn> @XavierXX, Peer pressure, plus accessibility
<tgBot> <XavierXX> still IRC you cann verify as secure and you can controll the server yourself
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> @samzn, maybe we need to consider voting whatsapp in or out of the UBports community once and for all.  that would make a fun event!  It seems like it's a waste of time.  A better use of time would be Anbox which would make this and other fake robot apps work for those people who like robots.   â¦ But seriously - if all the developers in this group stopped and focused on getting Anbox working... we can end these discussions until Umatriks anh
<tgBot> them all. â¦ Am I wrong?
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> @XavierXX, IRC?  I have been forbidden to speak on this topic ;)
<tgBot> <dohbee> @wayneoutthere, I wouldn't waste time on anbox either. It's just going to be a tremendous amount of headache, for very little gain.
<tgBot> <XavierXX> (Sticker, 357x512) https://irc.ubports.com/UM3RY5qf/file_2827
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> @dohbee, how so? if it works it makes all android apps work...
<tgBot> <dohbee> because android and ubuntu security models don't match
<tgBot> <dohbee> and at that point, why wouldn't i just run lineageos instead of ubuntu?
<tgBot> <Lorxu> @wayneoutthere, Well, not really, we also need a libre implementation of Google Play Services as I doubt those are allowed in an emulator like that. Also in development though but still
<tgBot> <dohbee> ubuntu won't buy anything if you get rid of the security
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> well the idea is a 'stop-gap' solution until something like Umatriks is rocking and rolling
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> if someone wants UT and can run anbox in a sandbox (neat) then... seems like it solves some things for many people and gets these conersations about 'apps' out of the way.
<tgBot> <dohbee> if you think making android apps work on ubuntu is easier than making a matrix client work, something is seriously wrong :)
<tgBot> <milkor73> @wayneoutthere / dear Wayne, it is just as you and Joe have always stressed in your audiocasts: Whatsapp is not in any line with Ubuntu Touch philosophy. From my point of view It is Whatsapp that has to accept first the right and proper for users secure communication standards, otherwise will never gain the invitation from any current or future secure and safety looking for ecosystem.
<tgBot> <XavierXX> i have a question now why is porting whatsapp even considered?
<tgBot> <dohbee> it's not open source, so nobody here can "port" it
<tgBot> <Flohack> @milkor73, The puzzling thin is that WhatsApp security is rated higher than Telegram and compared to Signal e.g. its not so bad ^^ - WhatsApp is more or less secure, except for the Metadata which belongs to FB
<tgBot> <dohbee> people can write unofficial clients that will get blocked and result in the users getting banned, but that's not at all helpful
<tgBot> <dohbee> @Flohack, i don't think that's very puzzling. but it's not open source, so really shouldn't matter too much :)
<tgBot> <dohbee> the only reason anybody ever talks about whatsapp is because it's what everyone uses in certain parts of the world, to communicate
<tgBot> <dohbee> if everyone used signal instead, we'd already have an awesome app on ubuntu for it
<tgBot> <milkor73> @Flohack, I know that, but the code is closed, so we do not know what is going on under the hood. Than it is all irrelevant.
<tgBot> <Stereofont> You either surrender to Facebook/WhatsApp or you don't. Peer pressure exerts their monopoly of communications. I can explain my position on it, using only one finger
<tgBot> <delijati> @wayneoutthere, Out +1
<tgBot> <mariogrip> @milkor73, well, do you know whats going on under the hood of telegrams servers?
<tgBot> <dohbee> evil
<tgBot> <mariogrip> that's why i really support matrix :)
<tgBot> <milkor73> @mariogrip, That is very correct point, but we know you are working, in your personnel time, on uMatriks!!! ð
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> @dohbee, I rest my case. :P
<tgBot> <dohbee> the only secure messaging is to not talk to anyone
<tgBot> <ebetonro> @dohbee, ð that's no messaging
<tgBot> <ebetonro> :))
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> Technically secure
<tgBot> <dohbee> null encryption is also the most secure
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> No one can read your messages if there aren't any
<tgBot> <dohbee> replace all data with 0s
<prasket> Has anyone gotten ubports installed on a nexus 7?
<tgBot> <milkor73> @dohbee, Hope this will not lead to silence messages here now ð
<tgBot> <Flohack> @dohbee, I agree to Rodneys point of view, in theoretical computer science these are edge cases you need to define stuff ^
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> @prasket, Which one?
<prasket> 2013
<tgBot> <dohbee> which one :)
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> There are two
<tgBot> <dohbee> though either should work i think
<tgBot> <Crash_Burn> @Stereofont, lol +1
<tgBot> <dohbee> @Flohack, the only secure encryption is one which cannot be decrypted
<prasket> the nexus 7 2013 wifi only model is the one I have and looking to install ubports or anything that isnt android :)
<tgBot> <LarreaMikel> iirc 2012 version is not very well supported. 2013 wifi is nice.
<tgBot> <Crash_Burn> @dohbee, I don't believe this exists... or ever will exist.
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> @prasket, The installer should work for you.
<tgBot> <dohbee> @Crash_Burn, save all your data to /dev/null
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> @Crash_Burn, It... It's a joke, will.
<tgBot> <dohbee> @LarreaMikel, 2012 model is not supported at all
<tgBot> <Crash_Burn> Not really... its a pipe dream.  Its about managing expectations
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> Encryption that can't be decrypted is useless. :P
<tgBot> <Crash_Burn> Every system is hackable.. .as the head of the fbi once said... I computer burried, 200 feet down in concrete... and I still doubt it is secure.
<tgBot> <dohbee> @UniversalSuperBox, not at all.
<tgBot> <Jonasz> Encryption that can't be decrypted is useful for passwords
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> You encrypt because you want the message you're encrypting, but you want to make sure that only the people who you want can read it
<tgBot> <Crash_Burn> @UniversalSuperBox, its not exactly... I can define a use case.
<tgBot> <dohbee> @UniversalSuperBox, no. one-way encryption is how you secure data such that it can only be known if it is already known (ie, your password)
<tgBot> <Crash_Burn> I get the joke... and am dragging this conversation out ;P
<tgBot> <dohbee> destroy physical copies (well, except for your neurons of course, but destroying those is kind of painful)
<tgBot> <Jonasz> But you can kinda decrypt it with brute force
<tgBot> <dohbee> well, guessing the password with brute force isn't decrypting
<tgBot> Antonio Izquierdo Ãlvarez was added by: Antonio Izquierdo Ãlvarez
<tgBot> <Jonasz> But at the end you get the password
<tgBot> <Jonasz> And thats the point
<tgBot> <Crash_Burn> @Antonio Izquierdo Ãlvarez, \o/
<tgBot> <Antonio Izquierdo Ãlvarez> XD
<tgBot> <Crash_Burn> New member party dance!
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @Jonasz, But you don't get the method for the next password â¦
<tgBot> <Crash_Burn> ðº
<tgBot> <dohbee> right, guessing one password doesn't grant you all passwords
<tgBot> <dohbee> which is what decryption would do
<tgBot> <Antonio Izquierdo Ãlvarez> ðº
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @Antonio Izquierdo Ãlvarez, Hello Antiono of the very cool name and welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    â¦ To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
<tgBot> <Crash_Burn> Hello Antonio and welcome! I'm part of the UBports welcoming team. â¦ To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :) â¦ Note also that there is an important news feed which condenses the 'many words' here into notable news chunks:  click this to subscribe to that channel: https://t.me/ubports_news
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> Aha, I see. Brain fart on my side.
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> I forgot what a hash is. -_-
<tgBot> <Jonasz> I heard that quantum computers will make brute forces extremely easy. I don't know why tho
<tgBot> <Crash_Burn> @Jonasz, ð
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> I don't know if there's anyone here who could explain it
<tgBot> <milkor73> 42?
<tgBot> <dohbee> yes
<tgBot> <milkor73> Would it be possible to port UT on quantum smart phone @mariogrip ?
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @UniversalSuperBox, There was something about them having more nodes than there are muons in 30 universes. If so, that would definitely explain it
<tgBot> <dohbee> because quantum computers don't operate on binary
<tgBot> Smartman_ru was added by: Smartman_ru
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @milkor73, Not until at least Aprilâ¦
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @Smartman_ru, Hello Smartman and welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    â¦ To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
<tgBot> <milkor73> @Stereofont, Not good but OK
<tgBot> <Jonasz> Is it more difficult than porting to mediatek?
<tgBot> <dohbee> @Jonasz, all the bits are always both on and off
<tgBot> <milkor73> @Jonasz, ð±
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> @Smartman_ru, Welcome smartman... since you have joined us I will credit you with being smart
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @dohbee, But you don't know which
<tgBot> <dohbee> if you want to wrack your brain for a while: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qubit
<tgBot> <Smartman_ru> @wayneoutthere, Ty :)
<tgBot> <Jonasz> I read it but I just don't get it why is it so much faster than normal computers
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @Jonasz, Not universally faster, as I understand it. Faster at some things though
<tgBot> <dohbee> @Jonasz, For the same reason 64-bit is faster than 32-bit is faster than 16-bit etcâ¦
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> Except now you throw in SchrÃ¶dinger's cat
<tgBot> <dohbee> except a 64-bit number can only be one value, while a 64-qubit number is 2^64 values
<tgBot> <Crash_Burn> @Jonasz, Its not linear... it finds all the solutions in parallel.  Looking for solution that fit best.  (I think)... Its like a dream state of waves... it will be awsome when we are all using water as our computational array.
<tgBot> <dohbee> it will be awesome when you don't need to have a quantum computer at near absolute 0 to be remotely useful :)
<prasket> OK installer did see the Nexus 7 and tried to install. Ended up in an Ubuntu screen saying âThis phone needs restoring from a PC or service centerâ  :( going to try reinstalling stock OS and try again
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @prasket, OEM unlocked and USB debugging?
<prasket> Yes
<tgBot> Ricardo was added by: Ricardo
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @Ricardo, Hello Ricardo and welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    â¦ To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
<tgBot> <Ricardo> help, I have restarted the phone and I have everything in English that can be due?
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @Ricardo, Which phone and which OS?
<tgBot> <Stereofont> Open system settings and go to language and text. Choose display language
<tgBot> <Ricardo> This Spanish post (Spain)
<tgBot> <Stereofont> Choose Spanish in the language list
<tgBot> <Ricardo> I'm on the r12
<tgBot> <Stereofont> https://t.me/UBPorts_ES
<tgBot> <Stereofont> There is an icon for Settings
<tgBot> <Stereofont> Open that to find languages
<tgBot> <Ricardo> nobody answers me, that's why I put it in this
<tgBot> <Stereofont> There is a pull down list
<tgBot> <Stereofont> No problem
<tgBot> <Stereofont> (Document) https://irc.ubports.com/FwIDo1lx/file_2829.png
<tgBot> <Ricardo> the system settings page has been put to me in Spanish and after a while it has been only in English
<tgBot> <Stereofont> Look on the screenshot. At the top is a globe symbol. That is a menu
<tgBot> <Ricardo> (Photo, 540x960) https://irc.ubports.com/y0NabKol/file_2831.jpg
<tgBot> <Ricardo> (Photo, 540x960) https://irc.ubports.com/Y8F01Lvj/file_2833.jpg
<tgBot> <Ricardo> (Photo, 540x960) https://irc.ubports.com/R3lrWFpY/file_2835.jpg
<tgBot> <Ricardo> (Photo, 540x960) https://irc.ubports.com/SjrHHULa/file_2837.jpg
<tgBot> <Crash_Burn> @Stereofont, I've been looking for the keyboard vibration toggle switch!  Yay :)
<tgBot> <Stereofont> (Sticker, 512x512) https://irc.ubports.com/lyMj2rMg/file_2838
<tgBot> <Stereofont> System settings third line down. Language and Text
<tgBot> <Ricardo> (Photo, 540x960) https://irc.ubports.com/VHdmicJG/file_2840.jpg
<tgBot> <Stereofont> Ahah
<tgBot> <Ricardo> it's all in English, up to the applications
<tgBot> <Stereofont> You are on rc channel?
<tgBot> <Ricardo> yes
<tgBot> <Ricardo> r12
<tgBot> <Stereofont> Try go to development channel then return to rc?
<tgBot> <Ricardo> I flashed it from the terminal and it keeps coming out in English
<tgBot> <Ricardo> ok
<tgBot> <Stereofont> Do it in system updates
<tgBot> <Stereofont> Interesting to see if it persists in development channel
<tgBot> <Ricardo> I'm on it
<tgBot> <Stereofont> En and Es are close. So I wonder â¦
<tgBot> <Crash_Burn> This is a new one for me... curious.
<tgBot> <Stereofont> Typo in compiling?
<tgBot> <Crash_Burn> I'm always in english, so not surprising ;P
<tgBot> <Stereofont> Also try Italian and see if that works
<tgBot> <Stereofont> (Document) https://irc.ubports.com/0ZuEhg9L/file_2841.png
<tgBot> <Stereofont> Wrong screenshot. Anyway, my tablet is now Italian
<tgBot> <Stereofont> Needed a restart, which is triggered by a popup
<tgBot> <Crash_Burn> @Stereofont, Lionelb offre il miglior supporto!
<tgBot> <Crash_Burn> ðð
<tgBot> <sverzegnassi> Vi vedo troppo intraprendenti qua! :P
<tgBot> <linearubuntu> salve brav'uomo ð
<tgBot> <Stereofont> andiamo extra chilometro ð
<tgBot> <linearubuntu> tre italiani ð
<tgBot> <Antonio Izquierdo Ãlvarez> Hello, anyone knows how to install 16.04 for the OP3? â¦ I'm new in this little Ubuntu's world, I have seen the page in the UBports but the links doesn't work ð, please help me to be part of UBports
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @Antonio Izquierdo Ãlvarez, Don't!
<tgBot> <Stereofont> 16.04 based Ubuntu Touch is experimental. Lots of stuff will fail and crash
<tgBot> <dohbee> @Stereofont, Sounds like something broke translation rather. Check app log.
<tgBot> <Stereofont> Unless you are a developer â¦
<tgBot> <Ricardo> I've gone to the developen channel and it's still in English. Then I've put the rc channel and it's still in English. I'll format it again.
<tgBot> <Antonio Izquierdo Ãlvarez> @Stereofont, Yeah, I'm used to it
<tgBot> <Stereofont> Not a bug in the revision then. Something you have done in terminal
#ubports 2017-12-12
<tgBot> <Stereofont> Okay great. Are you in the Spanish group btw?
<tgBot> <Antonio Izquierdo Ãlvarez> Yeah
<tgBot> <Ricardo> I apologize for the inconvenience caused. I'm going to format it whole
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @Antonio Izquierdo Ãlvarez, Still better to play around with 15.04. Oops. There is no OP3 port yet. Marius is working on one though
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @Ricardo, No inconvenience at all. It was fun! As always, we learned something new
<tgBot> <Ricardo> con este comando se borra entero?
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @Antonio Izquierdo Ãlvarez, Have you got any experience of porting?
<tgBot> <Ricardo> with this command is it deleted?
<tgBot> <Ricardo> sudo ubuntu-device-flash âserver=http://system-image.ubports.com touch âdevice=krillin âchannel=ubports-touch/15.04/rc âfastboot âwipe
<tgBot> <Antonio Izquierdo Ãlvarez> @Stereofont, Nope ð but how can I learn?
<tgBot> <Antonio Izquierdo Ãlvarez> I have a lot of desire and free time, but how can I start?ð¤·ââ
<tgBot> <Crash_Burn> @Ricardo, If you already have ubports recovery, then boot into recovery and use the command without the `--fastboot` option ?
<tgBot> <Crash_Burn> https://devices.ubports.com/#/krillin
<tgBot> <Crash_Burn> I thought you had an N7?
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @Antonio Izquierdo Ãlvarez, Join the welcome room link in the welcome link I sent earlier
<tgBot> <Ricardo> ok
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @Crash_Burn, OP3
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @Crash_Burn, I don't think we ever established which device
<tgBot> <Crash_Burn> krillian/ BQ e4.5
<tgBot> <Ricardo> it is already solved.formatted and again in Spanish
<tgBot> <Stereofont> ð
<tgBot> <Crash_Burn> Is that good or bad?
<tgBot> <dohbee> Muy mal
<tgBot> <Jaume81> @Ricardo, ðð¼
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @dohbee, i hv to agree, it is very geographic. in where i am its marginal for example.
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> (Photo, 1280x694) https://irc.ubports.com/sHINV5C7/file_2843.jpg
<tgBot> <dohbee> yeah, weibo/wechat is the big thing in chinese region
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @dohbee, emails+PGP (and possibly other encryption layerd on top). â¦ People say they want security but at the end of the day the do not. By general rule ppl always choose convenience over security.
<tgBot> <dohbee> if you can't make security convenient, you shouldn't be arguing for security :)
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @dohbee, supposedly quantum encryption will be new edge fpr uneavsdropable communications.
<tgBot> <dohbee> quantum encryption by definition doesn't exist
<tgBot> <dohbee> schroedinger's encryption
<tgBot> <dohbee> your data is both encrypted, and not, simultaneously, and always
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @dohbee, i am not sold by this one. I consider corporate/business environment for a moment. I set systems for security and people are bothered by needing to use passwords of a certain minimum difficulty. They would want to have no password or password like "12345677".  â¦ Perhaps making fingerprint scanners instead of need for typing passwords would be considerably more convinient for them. But then you compromise privacy. I suppose u could go
<tgBot> all that rationale that your fingerprint is not stored anywhere only some sort of single directional hash. That is what Apple and others do for their mobile phone fingerprint readers. Your call. I think that security/privacy/convenice is a trade-off.
<tgBot> <dohbee> it's not a trade-off. if security isn't built for humans, it's not going to work
<tgBot> <dohbee> for example, PGP
<tgBot> <dohbee> great idea, horrible implementation
<tgBot> <dohbee> for security to work, you must design for the weakest link
<tgBot> <dohbee> ie, humans
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @dohbee, i guess i was not very thoughtful about precise ways of calling thinks properly. I am not pretending to be very familiar with quantum physics and applications of it.  â¦ I meant quantum based communication. not encryption. One where eavsdropping can be detected.
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @dohbee, i probably can only be convinced to this if i see it. and it's been long time, yet no proof on concept. i remain in my opinion about tradeoff. the thing about making it human friendly is just theoretical for me because i am not seeing it happen.
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> Signal.
<tgBot> <dohbee> humans are lazy; not in the sense that we don't do work, but in the sense that we optimize that work
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> lot of times ppl buy into buzz words about security but then they compromise it by ignorant choices to lean toward convenience instead.
<tgBot> <dohbee> so if you have password rules, you get the worst passwords which fit those rules
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @dohbee, i agree with this
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> You download the app, it texts you, you are now using Signal for all of your contacts with Signal.
<tgBot> <dohbee> and people writing down stupid combinations of things to meet those rules, which reduces security
<tgBot> <dohbee> if your opsec is awful, your infosec is going to be awful
<tgBot> <dohbee> @UniversalSuperBox, i literally only have like 2 contacts that actually use signal
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @dohbee, with this onw i dont agree however. i cant agree that a combination of lo/hi case letters, digits and special symbols will decrease security comparing against 12345678 passwords. or 88888888 in case of Chinese people.
<tgBot> <dohbee> and one of them was like "oh wow, someone else actually uses signal!" when i sent them a message
<tgBot> <dohbee> well disagree all you want
<tgBot> <dohbee> meanwhile, governments access all the data :)
<tgBot> <dohbee> by which i mean, US/RU/CN governments
<tgBot> <dohbee> maybe UK, but meh
<tgBot> <dohbee> also, remember to eat ```before``` you drink, kids
<tgBot> <dohbee> damnit
<tgBot> <dohbee> i hate telegram
<tgBot> <dohbee> sigh
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @dohbee, there is relation but not causation.  â¦ password is supposed to protect against brute force (password guessing) access. in which case complexity of password works in favor of difficulty of anauthorized access. When governments access your data as you refered to, o dont think they depend on brute forcing your passwords anyways. unless u have exceptionally weak password then their dictionary attack could succeed. Rather they gain acces
<tgBot> other means.
<tgBot> <dohbee> brute force is irrelevant if the hash is already cracked
<tgBot> <dohbee> "12345678" is not more secure than "correct horse battery staple" for example
<tgBot> <dohbee> anyway, you're getting pretty divergent now
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @dohbee, ah yes, one password having multiple twin brothers u didnt lnow about. â¦ Not all passwords rely on hashes.
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> and guessing password instead of hash on a weak password is added value to one who wants to compromise it.
<tgBot> <dohbee> wow, i just realized this beer has flower petals in it
<tgBot> <dohbee> sadly not blue lotus though
<tgBot> <dohbee> anyway, humans are weak link. if you can't account for that in design of an encryption technology, then the design is flawed.
<tgBot> <dohbee> â
<tgBot> <dohbee> on the other hand, if this is blue lotus, i'm going to have some amazing dreams tonight
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> oh i account for it. i just dont care for their convenience as much as for the security standards. Since i don't have to care and they have to comply so i've further problem with it.
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> also i dont care about security so much in this chat. when i do i use my other phone. black phone. no whatsapp telegram matrix or signal.
<tgBot> Distanger was added by: Distanger
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> *I've no further problem with it.
<tgBot> <dohbee> ok. so you're part of the problem, and you're ok with that.
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> funny thing to me is that you are big on words while you talk like someone who repeats overheard bits from here and there. like the part about hashes. Did you calculatw has yourself like ever? it is far easier to use dictionary to break 12345678 password than to calculate hash for it. â¦ know that i am taking you only half seriously. your big ego does not convince me. but that is OT.
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> *calculate hash as find passwors hash not calculate md5 of something at all ;)
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> Alright, this isn't going anywhere. Can you two please discuss with understanding of each other or not at all?
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> And, uh, welcome @Distanger! You've found us at a very interesting time.
<tgBot> <PhoenixLandPirate> 3am my time
<tgBot> <vanyasem> 6 AM here
<tgBot> <Crash_Burn> @UniversalSuperBox, The best possible time!  Ubuntu Touch on quantum computers!! Get your qubits ready ;)
<tgBot> <Xorpad> Loo
<tgBot> <Xorpad> Quantum computers are less than calculators at this point
<tgBot> <Xorpad> Unlike binary computers no one invented all the needed useful algorithms before they were invented
<tgBot> <Xorpad> Binary computers were a topic of interest among mathematicians long before we knew how to make them
<tgBot> <Xorpad> Quantum computers lack basic functionality because until 10 years ago we didn't know how they might theoretically work
<tgBot> <Xorpad> We had many models of quantum computers possibilities and only recently have we realized what a 3 state bit is and we don't really know how to make software with 3 state bit computers
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @Xorpad, yeah we dont hv a 3 state bit based OS, we need to ivent logics, logical gates, cpu registers etc
<tgBot> <Xorpad> Yeah. When binary computers were invented mathematicians already had very complex and many algorithms because they predicted the invention of binary computers long before we had them
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> theoretical computers existed long before harware implementation did
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> entire boolean logic and theoretical logical gates and state machines like DAS all existed pretty early
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> in a way 3 state logics might never become practical in some aspects of what we use computers for. There are things that we need to be deterministic to either true or false. When added a 3rd state, it beats some of the purposes on some design. A 3 state system would then need to emulate a 2 state logic. quantum computong is yet another buzzword, lots of things that were called quantum computers were not in fact quantum computers. im interested 
<tgBot> first (can be theoretical) OS built in 3 state logics.
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> Ubuntu Touch is still official name for the OS now that UBports took over?
<tgBot> <samzn> @dohbee, Wechat has an app api though, better than our western overlords in that regard
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> Japan Korea and Taiwan it is Line
<tgBot> <vanyasem> I want to say the only thing in China
<tgBot> <vanyasem> @dohbee, this
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> and qq, still
<tgBot> <vanyasem> I use wechat to search for clothings albums ð
<tgBot> <vanyasem> so when I know what to order for myself
<tgBot> <Tina119> @vanyasem, I agree âï¸
<tgBot> <Tina119> If UBp have a Sina Weibo,that will great
<tgBot> <samzn> Is there a js/json wechat api?
<tgBot> <Tina119> @samzn, I have Wechat,usually almost Chinese are  used Wechat
<tgBot> <samzn> Yeah I'm aware
<tgBot> <Tina119> China have too much peoples
<tgBot> <samzn> I could make a wechat app, it might turn a lot of people to the platform
<tgBot> <samzn> It's more viable than making a WhatsApp application
<tgBot> <samzn> I'd only implement basic chat though, no fancy features the usual app provides
<tgBot> <Tina119> If you can open Chinaâs door, I am sure here  will add three zeros to the current 1044
<tgBot> <Tina119> China now has a population of 1.4 billion
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> in other words if you invite china to this supergroup the language will become Chinese in here
<tgBot> Oleksandr was added by: Oleksandr
<tgBot> <milkor73> @Oleksandr, Hello Oleksandr and welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    â¦ To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> if you want to keep English invite India
<tgBot> <Tina119> Not at all
<tgBot> <samzn> @KrisJacewicz, Hey, it's only a matter of time until we are ruled by our Chinese overlords
<tgBot> <samzn> India isn't a good market
<tgBot> <Tina119> @KrisJacewicz, I hope so ð
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @samzn, why do you reckon that??
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @Tina119, :D
<tgBot> <Tina119> Chinese group will supergroup,lolððð
<tgBot> <samzn> http://open.wechat.com/
<tgBot> <samzn> Good guy tencent
<tgBot> <samzn> We would never have something like this from GOOG or FB
<tgBot> <samzn> Seems there's no chat SDK though
<tgBot> <Tina119> @samzn, The Chinese government has blocked Facebook, YouTube, sets a Google
<tgBot> <samzn> What I mean is that they keep a tight closed garden to their platforms
<tgBot> <samzn> You can't expand much upon their products
<tgBot> <Tina119> China government is smart ð
<tgBot> <samzn> It's very protectionist, which isn't very great
<tgBot> <samzn> But they managed to deliver it nicely to the internal market
<tgBot> <Tina119> Now everyone knows that China is the largest market in the world
<tgBot> <samzn> https://github.com/node-webot/wechat-api can you translate this and see if there's any mention of using this for logging in & sending messages
<tgBot> <samzn> As a normal client
<tgBot> <Tina119> They are selective and not completely closed
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @Tina119, this is a knife with both edges sharp though. While protecting CHinese market from non-CHinese companies, there is also not enough competition, so the Chinese businesed get it and have not much reason to make things better without competition. FOr example baidu maps is awful to use if you ever used google maps. But they have no competition at all, so they have no incentive to make things better either. Some businesses have more ambiti
<tgBot> than others, but competition is what makes things better for the end users.
<tgBot> <Tina119> @KrisJacewicz, ðð
<tgBot> <samzn> Chinese mobile market has no reliance on google though
<tgBot> <samzn> From my view every phone manufacturer does it's own thing there
<tgBot> <Tina119> Yes
<tgBot> <samzn> Which seems like a good territory for foss mobiles
<tgBot> <samzn> @samzn, What does this api provide tina
<tgBot> <Tina119> They broken About Google anything
<tgBot> <Tina119> @samzn, I donât understand
<tgBot> <samzn> Does that link specify anything about using it like a wechat client for sending messages? Or just interfacing with an existing client like the oficial api?
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @samzn, your data is safe from Google. Instead Chinese government has access to all of the data and more of it thanwhat google has access to. Nothng in CHina ets millions of users without an obvious back access for the government. â¦ China is cashless economy right now. Wechat pays for everything. You are safe from Google. But Chinese government knows everything you do, places you go, with who. what do you buy, where and when, whether for your
<tgBot> or mistress, who you talk to and what do you say. â¦ And now they are gamifying people snitching on one another with the good citizen rank system. â¦ But you are safe from google in CHina, and that's the most important ight ;)
<tgBot> <samzn> @KrisJacewicz, Not too different from our corporativist system tbh
<tgBot> <Tina119> @samzn, I'm just a user. I'm not a software engineerï¼so I canât understand
<tgBot> <samzn> It's not as bad as it could be though, we avoided Hillary
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @samzn, if you se no difference then it only means you don't see it.
<tgBot> <samzn> @Tina119, Ah that's fine, I will try to translate at work
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @samzn, US avoided Hillary. The world is bigger.
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> I think that in CHina people who would geninely have interest in UT is still a small niche, like everywhere else in the world. â¦ However, a small niche in CHina translates to a big number of people. Same in India for example.
<tgBot> <samzn> @KrisJacewicz, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NyFRIgulPo  and https://staltz.com/the-web-began-dying-in-2014-heres-how.html are good talks on the subjects
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> So to have a niche n China or/and India focused and interested in UT, would be a big asset in terms of head count
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @samzn, are you trying to discredit critique of one party by diverting to a critique of another one??
<tgBot> <samzn> What I mean is that the behaviour of Chinese Gvt & Tencent towards chinese people is similar to US Giants & US Institutions towards people in the west
<tgBot> <samzn> Difference one isnt a single entity
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> one thing that I do notice though, is that while this group is 1k members, considered small by some standards, it is composed of people who often went out of their way to be somehow related to Ubuntu Touch. Maybe the nuber of use here is not overwhelming, but I dare to suspect that there are no random people here (random as in not sure how they ended up in this group).  â¦ I don't know we can grow this gorup whioe also keeping members very cle
<tgBot> their focus on the platform.  â¦ To be fair, I also don't know if we should cosider that a goal. â¦ But I thnk that at least while we are a small community, there are still advatages to be taken out of this (the small size).
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @samzn, i manage to see some diffreneces. One being that China government does not try to hide its intentions, or fool people into thinking they aren't doing what they are doing. In this, CHinese gvernment might be the least hypocritical of all of these so called parties.
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> when i think what might be taken an advantage of in a small sized community, it is perhaps a very proactive spirit of the members.  â¦ Whatdo you guys think can be other advantage?
<tgBot> <samzn> Unlike whatsapp, messenger, allo, etc which is a completely closed platform
<tgBot> <samzn> But back to the main point, if wechat has a decent api I could make an app that could bring people in, maybe even get a few bucks from donations or some nonintrusive monetization way in the app
<tgBot> <samzn> Christ, they threaten to sue people who work for free to deliver access to their services
<tgBot> <Tina119> @KrisJacewicz, This is not a battlefield. Calm downï¼Krisðð
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @Tina119, but I'm calm
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> abut to board a plane to China right now, will be use wechat hapily while there and will be spending my days free of google :(
<tgBot> <Tina119> @KrisJacewicz, Right now?
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @samzn, if you can go out of your way to make integration with wechat, I think there will centainly be a value coming from it. Whether or not a monetary one, I don't know.
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @Tina119, yes
<tgBot> <Tina119> @KrisJacewicz, Great
<tgBot> <samzn> Have a good flight :)
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> so my access to tlegram and this group will get more troublesome over next few days
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @samzn, thnak you, appreciate
<tgBot> <Tina119> @KrisJacewicz, Enjoying your flight
<tgBot> <samzn> I think china is fine with tg
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @Tina119, :)
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @samzn, it is very random
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> definitely not smooth
<tgBot> <Tina119> @samzn, Nope
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> I used to use vpn from my company but now China made vpns much less easy to use as well. And it's oficially announced that in 2018 it will only become more difficult to use them.
<tgBot> <Tina119> You canât use th
<tgBot> <Tina119> @KrisJacewicz, Yes,ð
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> at random times messages will go thru from telegram, and also Line. But most of the time no.
<tgBot> <samzn> At college I ssh tunnel everything to my home server at port 80
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> bit torrent based browsers still work if you use meeks
<tgBot> <Tina119> @KrisJacewicz, I often used  van
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @samzn, well, China has great plans for making vpn dofficult to achieve in 2018, even if you mask your port
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> time to board, take care guys, and @samzn if you were serious abt making wechat integration, it's probably a great idea to follow up n.
<tgBot> <Rocco 3> Someone has problem with oneplusone camera flash? Mine doesn't light during having photos
<tgBot> <Eranuzan> Rocco 3 Do you have the option to toggle it in the camera app?
<tgBot> <Rocco 3> Yes, I have
<tgBot> <Lorxu> @Flohack, The crypto, yeah. But they disable key verification and key change warnings by default for convenience, so they removed authentication and make it trivial to MitM. Still better than Telegram though, sadly
<tgBot> <Eranuzan> Hmm thats mean that the cmera app sees the interface do you have the same issue when filimng videos?
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @Distanger, Hello Disctanger and welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    â¦ To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
<tgBot> <onajjar> Is there any way to change the icons in the Ubuntu touch ?
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @Tina119, Hypergroup ð
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @onajjar, Yes. I just did it. Install Falcon then add a couple of icon sets
<tgBot> <onajjar> @Stereofont, Thank You !
<tgBot> <ecnishad08> (Sticker, 507x512) https://irc.ubports.com/DMcLurxS/file_2844.webp
<tgBot> <Stereofont> (Photo, 720x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/qn2um2FW/file_2846.jpg
<tgBot> <Stereofont> The other is Numix
<tgBot> <onajjar> @Stereofont, I like numix much ;)
<tgBot> <shinyhairsmylifeambition> @Stereofont, wow!
<tgBot> <Tina119> @Stereofont, I guess so ....I hope so..... I think so....ðððð
<tgBot> <Tina119> @onajjar, Me too
<tgBot> <dohbee> @samzn, They all just ship their own forks of Android. There are a lot who just ship stock Android 4.4 on old hardware in really cheap phones
<tgBot> <dohbee> i think wechat is just qq for doing auth/chat
<tgBot> <neothethird> @samzn, *everybody* who ships a fork of android is dependent on google
<tgBot> <dohbee> https://www.quora.com/Does-WeChat-have-a-public-API-How-can-I-access-it suggests chat is not open
<tgBot> <Tina119> @dohbee, Wechat same qq , first qq ,second Wechat, You can register WeChat with QQ number
<tgBot> <Tina119> @neothethird, Hey hey hey....whoâs your Aviva?
<tgBot> <dohbee> india uses pretty much all the same stuff as us/uk/eu for social networking. sadly, that includes whatsapp :-/
<bshah> 'sadly'
<bshah> I've total 4 friends on telegram, they signed up and never used it later
<bshah> same for signal.. 2 friends
<tgBot> <dohbee> well same for me
<tgBot> <dohbee> don't see how that changes the facts
<bshah> (sorry, my comment may come as out of context, didn't read full backlog)
<bshah> but yes I am agreeing with you on social networking in India
<tgBot> <dohbee> whatsapp is closed, and aggressively against third party devs
<tgBot> <Stereofont> I got my family on Signal. Wasn't  too hard
<tgBot> <dohbee> i wonder how many matrix nodes are running in india
<tgBot> <Tina119> In fact, many Chinese are using telegram,because Wechat and QQ are monitored...
<tgBot> <dohbee> china is a weird place
<tgBot> <Tina119> @dohbee, Why? How weird?
<tgBot> <dohbee> very weird, in many ways
<tgBot> <Tina119> Saying....
<tgBot> <dohbee> like, apparently banning time travel theme
<tgBot> <Tina119> @dohbee, I guess you are a India
<tgBot> <dohbee> no
<tgBot> <Tina119> @dohbee, Where are you from,Rodneyð
<tgBot> <dohbee> the collective "it's ok that our gov't is oppressive, because they're very open and nice about it" is also kind of weird
<tgBot> <dohbee> and the propaganda filled tv shows are fun
<tgBot> <dohbee> us
<tgBot> <Tina119> I donât know yet ððð
<tgBot> <Tina119> @dohbee, Because China has 5,000 years of history and culture, and the United States has only two hundred years....SO you can't understand it....and you did think weird.... ððð
<tgBot> <dohbee> more than 5000, and i can understand the history just fine
<bshah> guys, this is going off-topic btw
<tgBot> <Tina119> @bshah, I agree
<tgBot> <Tina119> I think it's best not to talk about politics here. It's not about UT
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @Tina119, +1
<tgBot> <dohbee> anyway, wechat is not open on chat side
<tgBot> <Tina119> @Stereofont, ððððð
<tgBot> <dohbee> and even if it was, i don't think it would get us many chinese users flocking to ubports
<tgBot> <dohbee> ubuntu doesn't comply with chinese smartphone os regulations
<tgBot> <DanChapman> Is that why meizu only sold the international versions with UT then?
<tgBot> <Tina119> @dohbee, Ah....
<tgBot> <Stereofont> There is a further point that bloatware seems to be embraced in China. Minimalism doesn't seem to have any traction there
<tgBot> <dohbee> i don't think that's true
<tgBot> <malditobastardo> Telegram
<tgBot> <malditobastardo> Very leggy today
<tgBot> <dohbee> no more so than anywhere else, anyway
<tgBot> <Stereofont> For sure bloatware has a massive following in the west too. There is a niche though that strongly values the austere
<tgBot> <dohbee> i would hardly call ubuntu a minimalist phone, though
<tgBot> <Stereofont> In terms of UI it is a lot less busy
<tgBot> <Stereofont> Functionality is a different matter for sure
<tgBot> <dohbee> you should have tried the retail images then; they had a lot more stuff installed by default
<tgBot> <dohbee> and most apps are still webapps after all, and most web sites are far from minimal
<tgBot> <dohbee> anyway, it is irrelevant
<tgBot> <dohbee> that aspect has very little to do with increasing market share, in china, or anywhere
<tgBot> lungwitz was added by: lungwitz
<tgBot> <Stereofont> It worked for early Mac
<tgBot> <dohbee> i do wish the colors weren't so much iOS though
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @lungwitz, Hello Klaus and welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    â¦ To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
<tgBot> <Stereofont> btw Klaus there is also a German language group, if you are interested
<tgBot> <lungwitz> @Stereofont, Thanks!
<tgBot> <lungwitz> @Stereofont, To your surprise, I'm from Argentina and my available languages (?) are Spanish and English
<tgBot> <lungwitz> Thanks anyway
<tgBot> <dohbee> @lungwitz, BsAs?
<tgBot> <Stereofont> I was only 85% certain ð There is also a Spanish language group
<tgBot> <lungwitz> Yep
<tgBot> <lungwitz> @Stereofont, Hahaha
<tgBot> <dohbee> awesome
<tgBot> <dohbee> i guess ubports_ES is more spain spanish though?
<tgBot> <Stereofont> The idea is to go with language themes rather than a national theme but that is an ideal, not necessarily a reality
<tgBot> <dohbee> sure
<tgBot> <malditobastardo> @lungwitz, Buenos dÃ­as. Venite al grupo en espaÃ±ol
<tgBot> <malditobastardo> @klaus
<tgBot> <malditobastardo> https://t.me/UBPorts_ES
<tgBot> <lungwitz> (Sticker, 512x512) https://irc.ubports.com/hjUiTuKN/file_2847
<tgBot> <DanChapman> @dohbee you might know this one. If i start a subprocess in an app does it inherit the same confinement as the parent process or would i need to start the subprocess with `aa-exec-click` to ensure it has the same confinement?
<tgBot> <dohbee> @DanChapman, children are in the parent's cgroup and under the same confinement and lifecycle requirements
<tgBot> <dohbee> that's how it's supposed to be, anyway
<tgBot> <DanChapman> brilliant, thanks!
<tgBot> <lungwitz> @Stereofont, Yes, but I like being in an English speaking group anyway
<tgBot> <Stereofont> Cool. You can of course be in both ð
<tgBot> <lungwitz> (:
<tgBot> Mustafa Dagdelen was added by: Mustafa Dagdelen
<tgBot> <Crash_Burn> Hello Mustafa and welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    â¦ To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @Tina119, mao zedong killed all that culture. Now China is trying to dig some of it back up.
<tgBot> <Mustafa Dagdelen> @Crash_Burn, Thank you @Crash_Burn and Hello everyone
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @Stereofont, much less complete
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> @Mustafa Dagdelen, Hi Mustafa.  Welcome!
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @Mustafa Dagdelen, If you would like intro/assistance you can use the Welcome Room link
<tgBot> <XavierXX> oh why does ubports want to override the recovery?
<tgBot> <profetik777> quick question, how many fulltime engineers does ubports have now?
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> @profetik777, howdy!  what does 'engineer' mean?  do you mean people who are engineers for their full time job and enjoy being part of UBports?
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> I'm a full time UBports Audio Engineer.  Do I count?
<tgBot> <alan_griffiths> @profetik777, It would be very easy to be misled by a simplistic answer to what you ask. Why do you think "fulltime engineers" is a useful measure?
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> for now he only asked a question. a question is nor good nor bad. Lets wait what conclusions he draws from the answer. i am also curious anyways.
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> althoug " full time engineers being part of UBports" does not mean "engineers working on UBports full time". Can be engineers who work full time somewhere else and also are part of UBports when time permits :D
<tgBot> <Cesar_Herrera> It's easier how many people are full time in UBports?
<tgBot> <alan_griffiths> Nope, answering a question meaningfully needs context. Both to understand the question and to ensure the answer is useful.
<tgBot> <profetik777> ah sorry, software developers working full time on ubports
<tgBot> <profetik777> full -time and/or full-time paid
<tgBot> <profetik777> @wayneoutthere you always count no matter what...lol
<tgBot> <alan_griffiths> For example, suppose some phone company wants to be sure that UBports is "adequately supported" to incorporate in a product. The number of "fulltime engineers" is a bad measure as it badly underestimates the support available.
<tgBot> <Tina119> @KrisJacewicz, I want to KICK  your assâ¦â¦krisð©ð©
<tgBot> <lungwitz> I read all this at once and my face was like WTF?
<tgBot> <lungwitz> Hahah
<tgBot> <neothethird> @profetik777, As-in developers who are paid from community donations and have a long-term contract? Only one. But we and our sponsors hire people for shorter periods of time to work on specific tasks regularly. Also, we have loads of community devs, of course.
<tgBot> <Rocco 3> Kris, how can launch Lazarus IDE from my PC command line? All is installed properly
<tgBot> <neothethird> But i agree with what Alan said, full-time employees is not a good measure of success and/or level of support
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> @lungwitz, yes, sometimes the supergroup goes 'super'.  For example we have discussions of full time engineers mixed in with sensitive Chinese culture talk.  Fun for the whole family!
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> @neothethird, the measure of success is whether or not we are moving forward and breaking ground.  If you measured our success per dollar spent we would be featured in Fortune 500
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> I know full time people who sit in their chair and pick their buttocks from 9 to 5
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> but wait! there's more from wayne... â¦ There are also full time 'people' who should be doing their day jobs but who end up doing UBports full time!  â¦ ... like me :(
<tgBot> <profetik777> @wayneoutthere, ðð
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @Rocco 3, if u used updated installer script the the command over ssh is start-lazarus â¦ if you used previous i staller (before yesterday) then the command is full path: â¦ ~/.local/lazfpc4ut/fpc3/lazfpc3
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> updated installer sets path in .bash_profile so without sudo it makes start-lazarus command global. But only over ssh because UT Terminal app ignores .bash_profile (idk why)
<tgBot> <profetik777> While we can all site scenarios and cases where full time software devs are not productive etc., the question is really asking about Ubports specifically...not from the perspective of some entity who would use only 1 measure of success evaluating whether or not something is "worthy" of partnership, etc... which by the way,  I do not think any organization would ever do (base it on 1 measure).
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @Rocco 3, you will aslo want to know how to make the app scale up to full screen. bu default it is tiny. PM me and i ll tell u everything u need to know. some time this or next week will update wiki with demos.
<tgBot> <profetik777> I recall there was a desire of having more than one full time dev from Marius himself, and curious if that is a goal that ubports is shooting for?
<tgBot> <profetik777> aside from the pros and cons of measurements etc etc.
<tgBot> <neothethird> We could probably afford it, but at the moment that's not our biggest concern
<tgBot> <neothethird> also, we want to wait until all our paperwork for setting up the foundation is done
<tgBot> <neothethird> because that will make hirering easier
<tgBot> <profetik777> @neothethird, Ah, noted.
<tgBot> <Cesar_Herrera> Setting up the foundation is fundamental.
<tgBot> <neothethird> it's in progress, but german beaurocracy takes forever
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @neothethird, we dont know why the question was asked. we just assume why. Maybe it was just out of curiosity. i also agree that small number of full time people in UBports means it is badly supported. Well motivated people can do great job even in less than full time hour workday. Peraonally i am VERY impressed how UBports is happening. The website is beautiful. The GUI installer and custom images are beautiful. The work is organized and thing
<tgBot> are happening. Feedback is listened to and addressed. I think it is being carried out in a way more proffessional way than you would expect by looking at available resources. Quite spectacular if you ask me.
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> *does NOT mean it is badly supported
<tgBot> <profetik777> maybe it is because it is text form, i find a hint of defensiveness, esp. since no one here claimed it was badly supported in any shape or form.
<tgBot> <profetik777> it was a pure question.
<tgBot> <profetik777> out of curiousity, if that needs confirming.
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @profetik777, +1
<tgBot> <neothethird> @profetik777, ok, sorry about that, wasn't intended that way. I know you're a good guy, given your history with the project i'm happy to see you here again now
<tgBot> <profetik777> thank @neothethird
<tgBot> <alan_griffiths> The about question of support was mine. But only as a hypothetical to illustrate why the context of the question matters.
<tgBot> <profetik777> and never stopped my monthly giving bc i totally believe in the importance :D :D :D
<tgBot> <profetik777> despites patreon's weird rule change ð
<tgBot> <neothethird> Thanks, that's much appreciated
<tgBot> <neothethird> If you want to get away from patreon, we also have liberapay now, their fees are a little lower
<tgBot> <profetik777> cool ill have to check it out
<tgBot> <neothethird> https://liberapay.com/UBports
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @alan_griffiths, i understand it was hypothetical and i dont want to drain it or anything but just a second thought a propos. If someone really asked that question in a context u used as an example, why not to openly andnproudly admit that the number is very low. Would that not be very meaningful as in: hey look how great job we do with so little resources, and understand how amazing we will become once resources grow.
<tgBot> <neothethird> @profetik777, it's weekly though, so be careful :P
<tgBot> <XavierXX> what would everyone here recomend as the first programming language to learn with the reasoning behind that decision as many say one or the other but not why for example some say pYthon some say C annd some say Java but the thing missing is the reasoning behind it
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> i guess if i was looking as an angel investor on the current work of ubports team i would rate it as solid!
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @XavierXX, i would recommend object pascal because it is much easier to learn, and easier to read than c-like languages, and because your salary is likely to be higher than with most popular languages. Although it may take longer to find job because there are fewer listings. You can uae free and open source compiler and IDE to target all popular and leaa popular platforms and all the things you learn you can also use later on in other languages
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> but you wont be able to write windows drivers or linux kernel modules aith it. otherwise anything else is fine.
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> @XavierXX, I think you'll get all of those answers here.
<tgBot> <alan_griffiths> @XavierXX, Different programming languages address different types of problem. I'd recommend one that supports the type of work the student is motivated by. What sort of programming interests you?
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @alan_griffiths, a great answer much better than mine!
<tgBot> <neothethird> @XavierXX, With python, javascript and some dialect of c (in that order) you'll be able to do almost anything. Number one priority when learning in your free time should be, that its a language that is fun for you to work with and that can be used in an area you're interested in.
<tgBot> <dohbee> @XavierXX, English :)
<tgBot> <DanChapman> @dohbee, lol
<tgBot> <XavierXX> i am quite intrested in security but i am also quite intrested in being able to build my own tools
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> I'm personally drawn to Python due to its popularity and how easy it is to get most simple tasks done (especially commandline tools). Other people will give you a lot of different answers.
<tgBot> <Crash_Burn> @neothethird, Ummmm.... YAY! :D
<tgBot> <Crash_Burn> I always scour Jan's posts for secret nuggest of information!
<tgBot> <alan_griffiths> What do you mean by "security"? It makes a big difference whether you are talking about encryption, app isolation or the internet.
<tgBot> <neothethird> @XavierXX, build your own tools, that sounds like a python job. Security? That can be anything
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> @UniversalSuperBox, There's a lot of Python syntax that many people will find upsetting, but I find really nice to write. For example, the other day I wrote: â¦ ```if "stuff" not in list and "other stuff" not in list: â¦     things to do```
<tgBot> <lungwitz> @wayneoutthere, ð
<tgBot> <Crash_Burn> @wayneoutthere, ewwww ð
<tgBot> <XavierXX> but i think the most important thing for me would be to be able to learn a language that would learn me important aspects in programming that would also be usefull in other languages
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> Each language will have slightly different names for things, but most C-based languages (read: pretty much all of them) will have the same concepts.
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @UniversalSuperBox, if(stuff not in list)and (othersruff not in list)then â¦ begin â¦ //do some stuff â¦ ens; â¦ //can be valid pascal code that compiles
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @KrisJacewicz, i use python sometimes one thing important to notice is that it's an interpreted language
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> Right, it's not compiled so it will be slower than most compiled languages in most tasks.
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> that is sometimes what you want and sometimes not what you want
<tgBot> <XavierXX> and i am also quite intrested in embedded hardware
<tgBot> <Cesar_Herrera> The most important is a good book to read. The language is not so important.
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @UniversalSuperBox, yes but there are advantages too
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> more flexible you can modify program at run-time
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> or generate code at run time and execute it
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> @XavierXX, There are microcontroller boards that use Python, but the beginning embedded development platforms (Arduino) are heavily C-based
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> andnpython has somw really nice librariea easy to use like opencv and other ones i have less or none experience wirh
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> also great wrappers around process execution, pipes, even vte, thus great for writting automates scripts that include commands rhat require interactive terminal. for example it is quite easy with python to wrap sudo and things like that.
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> Mhmm. Requests, BeautifulSoup, Bottle. All really great libraries to do the most boring tasks available. As well as the `multiprocessing` and `threading` standard libraries
<tgBot> <dohbee> python is great for confidence building, and then tearing it down when you learn your code is super broken and insecure
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> @neothethird, is there a long german compound word for this?  This could be my word-of-the-day
<tgBot> <dohbee> because you can write stuff totally the wrong way and it will seem like it's working correctly, because it's so dynamic and forgiving
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> True.
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> i like to mix python with pascal very much especially when dealing with opencv and even sometimes with artificial intwlligence, specifically training artificial synapse networks
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> So... does that answer your question at all, @XavierXX ?
<tgBot> <XavierXX> yes thank you all :)
<tgBot> <Michele> @wayneoutthere, ahahah
<tgBot> <dohbee> there used to be a lot more full time engineers. alas
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> so that's pretty cool.  I moved my patreon to Libera pay.  It's actually very nice system!  Who set it up for UBports?
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> Mario Grips
<tgBot> <dohbee> that sounds like a nintendo accessory
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> trademarks
<tgBot> <dohbee> http://www.siliconera.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/20170914_033821_thumb.png
<tgBot> <dohbee> too late
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> Damn.
<tgBot> <dohbee> literally what comes up when you search for mario grips on goog images
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> It's better with the word 'test' â¦ Mario Grip Test â¦ That's like those machines where you squeeze as hard as you can to impress your girlfriend at a carnival
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> @UniversalSuperBox, the only problem is that Gripsmandu has blacklisted me, I think....
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> maybe he uses facebook...
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> You mean, blocked? :P
<tgBot> <dohbee> hmm, what exactly is a flatpak
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> It's a package
<tgBot> <dohbee> sort of
<tgBot> <dohbee> but i mean, the "package" what exactly is it?
<tgBot> <dohbee> ie, a snap package is a squashfs
<tgBot> <bhushanshah> It's ostree thingie
<tgBot> <bhushanshah> So there are layers iirc
<tgBot> <dohbee> so it gets unpacked to somewhere on the filesystem?
<tgBot> <bhushanshah> More or less yeah
<tgBot> <dohbee> ok, so i guess what i want is something somewhere between snaps and clicks/flatpaks
<tgBot> <bhushanshah> xkcd standards? ð
<tgBot> <bhushanshah> ð
<tgBot> <bhushanshah> Jk
<tgBot> <dohbee> eh
<tgBot> <dohbee> though i wonder how well snap scales
<tgBot> Aditya Pujari was added by: Aditya Pujari
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> after installing Linphone 'flatpak' I also was thinking how similar snaps and flatpaks behave... i don't understand the backend stuff but my first experience with flatpaks was relatively good.
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> @Aditya Pujari, Hello Aditya and welcome! I'm part of the UBports welcoming team. â¦ To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
<tgBot> <Crash_Burn> Hello Aditya \o/
<tgBot> <Aditya Pujari> Ok thanks
<tgBot> <profetik777> @dohbee, Agreed, esp. when it comes to shared libraries vs sandboxed libraries - who decides what will be shared to avoid redundency and what will be standalone - which was the pitch for snaps
<tgBot> <dohbee> well i meant a bit more lower level in terms of scaling, than that :)
<tgBot> <profetik777> (Document) https://irc.ubports.com/i1ad1Qgu/file_2848.mp4
<tgBot> <profetik777> oh...nm
<tgBot> <dohbee> heh
<tgBot> <dohbee> snaps have some design limitations which make certain things really annoying
<tgBot> <dohbee> but squashfs is interesting
<tgBot> <bhushanshah> Have you checked AppImages? Security is shit for it but concept is awesome
<tgBot> <dohbee> so snapd is kind of interesting to test out the scalability of squashfs with regard to inode consumption and such
<tgBot> <bhushanshah> But still again.. scalability issues are there in AppImages
<tgBot> <dohbee> ile Subsurface-4.6.4-x86_64.AppImage  â¦ Subsurface-4.6.4-x86_64.AppImage: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1, dynamically linked, interpreter /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2, for GNU/Linux 2.6.32, BuildID[sha1]=783ad4749a42b2e09fedee6b1b69accd9e010fe4, stripped
<tgBot> <dohbee> huh
<tgBot> <dohbee> anyway, i think appimage has some of the same issues as flatpak there. it's designed to be used for user apps, not system services and such
<tgBot> <JBBgameich> For system services, I still prefer deb packages. For user Apps, I like AppImage. I hope AppImage gets a nice cli for it's AppImageHub so you can install AppImages more easily.
<tgBot> <dohbee> eh, i'm trying to find a way to get rid of debs (or rpms/tgz/aur/whatever)
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> I don't think we're going to find one
<tgBot> <dohbee> well snaps work for that, but snaps aren't designed well for apps
<tgBot> <dohbee> so yeah, it's pretty apparent that to achieve what i want, i'd have to write another packaging system
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> Or you could improve the existing ones so that they'd do what you want
<tgBot> <dohbee> (the one i wrote previously won't do here either)
<tgBot> <sverzegnassi> Snaps are interesting, but those interfaces seem too complex for the "casual developers". In this aspect, Flatpaks or even .click packages are more "dev/user friendly"
<tgBot> <vanyasem> @sverzegnassi, +1
<tgBot> <vanyasem> I found flatpaks extremely easy to package my apps with
<tgBot> <vanyasem> and I was never able to figure out snaps
<tgBot> <vanyasem> and clicks are not even a thing to discuss, even a kid would succeed in packaging .click
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> Well, I guess we're the winners then, aren't we?
<tgBot> <dohbee> so much winning
<tgBot> <Rocco 3> @KrisJacewicz, Yes, thanks.
<tgBot> <gouchi> appimage can be "sandoxed" with firejail and they have a nice delta binary update
<tgBot> <gouchi> with AppImageUpdate
<tgBot> ChrisB was added by: ChrisB
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> @vanyasem, Interesting. They feel snappy or snap-like on my side so I cant complain about my first flatpak. If they can help roll out convergence and faster it and they has my vote
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @ChrisB, Hello ChrisB and welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    â¦ To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
<tgBot> <Mattia> Fwd from Mattia: Guys, i've got a problem. â¦ Seems that fixupmountpoints script doesn't work
<tgBot> <Mattia> Fwd from Mattia: + mount /dev/block/bootdevice/by-name/userdata /data â¦ mount: mounting /dev/block/bootdevice/by-name/userdata on /data failed: No such file or directory â¦ + mount /data/rootfs.img /target â¦ mount: mounting /data/rootfs.img on /target failed: No such file or directory â¦ + mkdir -p /target/data â¦ + mount --bind /data/ /target/data â¦ mount: mounting /data/ on /target/data failed: Invalid argument â¦ + mount â¦ rootfs on / 
<tgBot> devpts on /dev/pts type devpts (rw,relatime,mode=600) â¦ sysfs on /sys type sysfs (rw,relatime) â¦ proc on /proc type proc (rw,relatime) â¦ + DBG_REASON=
<tgBot> <Mattia> Fwd from Mattia: Everytime i compile halium i get this:
<tgBot> <Mattia> Fwd from Mattia: halium/hybris-boot/Android.mk:67: ***************** /boot appears to live on /dev/block/bootdevice/by-name/boot â¦ halium/hybris-boot/Android.mk:68: ***************** /data appears to live on /dev/block/bootdevice/by-name/userdata
<tgBot> <ChrisB> @Stereofont, Hi Lionelb, thanks and I will have a look
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @ChrisB, If there is anything we can help you with, join the Welcome Room
<tgBot> <Tina119> @wayneoutthere, Canada's Multiculture is fully reflected here
<tgBot> <dohbee> what you talkin aboot eh?
<tgBot> <lungwitz> hahaha
<tgBot> <lungwitz> @dohbee, don't turn off the lights ð
#ubports 2017-12-13
<tgBot> <shen feng> Meizu PRO5 can upgrade 16.04 yet?
<tgBot> <Ern_st> No ^^
<tgBot> <shen feng> ð­
<tgBot> <Ern_st> Nobody can, patience :)
<tgBot> <Ern_st> By supporting the project anyhow you help to speed up the deployement
<tgBot> <shen feng> Stefan Mikulajåå¸ç Google+ ä¿¡æ¯ â¦ https://plus.google.com/101216811071065193275/posts/6LAyU8w9oXg
<tgBot> <dohbee> it is unstable. if you want to help development, then you can install it. otherwise you should probably stay on stable.
<tgBot> <shen feng> How to install it?
<tgBot> <Vijaypraj> vijay prajapati: â¦ sudo ubuntu-device-flash --server=http://system-image.ubports.comÂ touch \ â¦ --device=[DEVICE-CODENAME] --channel=ubports-touch/16.04/devel --bootstrap --wipe
<tgBot> <nikhilbhalwankar> @malditobastardo, Can you please provide the link?
<tgBot> <shen feng> @Vijaypraj, thanks
<tgBot> <shen feng> ð
<tgBot> <Vijaypraj> ð
<tgBot> <shen feng> ð
<tgBot> <milkor73> @nikhilbhalwankar, https://github.com/ubports/telegram-app/releases/tag/v2.5.0
<tgBot> <Flohack> @milkor73, no its 2.5.1 now please ^^
<tgBot> <milkor73> https://github.com/ubports/telegram-app/releases
<tgBot> <milkor73> sorry
<tgBot> <milkor73> @Flohack, I was checking if you are here dear Florian ð, no that is nost true, I am stupid
<tgBot> <Flohack> lol
<tgBot> <milkor73> thanks for your control Florian
<tgBot> <Flohack> np your welcome. I am the Eye in the Sky
<tgBot> <Flohack> which is, btw a very nice song by Alan Parsons Project: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNiie_zmSr8
<tgBot> <milkor73> ð, that is the best of all, we know you are there ð
<tgBot> <milkor73> Yesterday arrived to my email @mariogrip / Marius has fixed on N5 the on screen button, I can confirm it works perfect now, you have just to wait 1 second and the screen is ON, no more swiping or pushing 3x times the on/off button, thanks Marius, /I am on devel channel/
<tgBot> <linearubuntu> guys good morning. â¦ On aquaris e5, in windows mode, how i can resize windows?  â¦ I can only put in full screen mode, but after that, i can't resize them. â¦ Someone can helps? â¦ Thanks for your work.
<tgBot> <Flohack> @milkor73, woot woot!
<tgBot> <wagafo> @milkor73, I just installed 251 devel version and I still see this issue. Have you turned automatic brighness on? With automatic brightness on each two times I activate the screen with the button I see the issue again. I thought the fix was still not merged and that's why I haven't reported in the bug report yet.
<tgBot> <milkor73> @Flohack, controling and helping
<tgBot> <milkor73> @Flohack, moment, I will find the email
<tgBot> <wagafo> @milkor73, I got the email too. In the bug report it says waiting for QA, so maybe the fix has not been merged yet
<tgBot> <Flohack> @milkor73, No need I got it in my notifications as well
<tgBot> <Flohack> @wagafo, No, it should be pushed into devel. Problem is our image building is not working properly these days
<tgBot> <wagafo> @Flohack, I can definitely say I'm still seeing this issue in 251 devel version, I will report it in the bug report
<tgBot> <milkor73> there it is, I have received today the update 250, and checking now has arrived new one: 251, but for me is already working well the on/off screen button, just a small delay
<tgBot> <milkor73> with update 251 it takes much more time: 3-5 seconds to see the screen ON, I see your bug report Walter, just arrived
<tgBot> <ProsperoDaniele> @Flohack, I'm Just trying It! Seems everything ok
<tgBot> <wagafo> @milkor73, Do you have automatic brightness turned on?
<tgBot> <milkor73> yes it is on
<tgBot> <milkor73> I know that switching off was helping
<tgBot> <delijati> @shen feng, hmm i would really like to see "top command" to see how much memory the new version is consuming .... the new qt version is arm optimized and should consume less memory
<tgBot> <TronFortyTwo> @Flohack, looking at yooou-u-u....ð¶ð¶ðð
<tgBot> RoccoOPO2 was added by: Rocco
<tgBot> <Flohack> @delijati, Which I am not sure is what is the "base" qt version in 16.04 => we want to go up to 5.9 but this is then a separate custom build for us only
<tgBot> <delijati> ahh ok i thought the 16.04 build is already using qt 5.9
<tgBot> <petya230> Ubuntu touch 16.04 based on android 7.0?
<tgBot> <shen feng> What ?base on android ?
<tgBot> <petya230> I mean... Device tree
<tgBot> <petya230> :D
<tgBot> <Marianacmacias> Fwd from OMG! Ubuntu!: A new unstable development release of your favourite photo editor http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/12/gimp-photo-editor-improve-gradient-tool
<tgBot> <BrisPete> http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/bristol-rugby-lose-another-player-919616
<tgBot> <Jaume81> How can I do a message and call logs backup?
<tgBot> <PhoenixLandPirate> They should all be somewhere in your home directory
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> sms uses sql light dont remember file path but in your home
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @Marianacmacias, ut cant take advantage of wayland support yet but i used gimp via xmir on ut. it is only usable in single window mode which does not come default. i usually start it over ssh forst change ro single mode and then make launcher to open on the phone again. just copy original launcher from /usr/share/applications to ~/.local/share/applications and add xmir flags. if on libertine, also recommend single window mode.
<tgBot> <Jonasz> Why do so many apps use qt?
<tgBot> <Lorxu> Because it's a great framework, and the only officially supported one on Ubuntu Touch?
<tgBot> <Jonasz> Isn't sdl also supported?
<tgBot> <DanChapman> yes, sdl 2.1 I believe
<tgBot> <DanChapman> @alan_griffiths could probably confirm that
<tgBot> <alan_griffiths> @DanChapman, I know QT was used by the Unity8 developers but I have no special knowledge of what toolkits are supported by UBports.
<tgBot> <DanChapman> but mir supports sdl2 though right?
<tgBot> <alan_griffiths> sdl2 has a Mir backend. Is that what you mean by "is supported"?
<tgBot> <Lorxu> SDL isn't really something you'd normally use directly in apps? More useful for games
<tgBot> <DanChapman> @alan_griffiths, yeah ð
<tgBot> <Lorxu> It's not really a toolkit like Qt is
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> gtk widgetset was startet to be ported, but afaik, it was not finished
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> it was discussed in this chat some time ago
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> apparently some problems with pixel encodings
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> between APIs
<tgBot> Xavier G. was added by: Xavier G.
<tgBot> <dohbee> Gtk+ works fine. You just have to do manual scaling in your app. Plain qt widgets are the same I think. Qml with uitk gives you api for GU though
<tgBot> <Xavier G.> Hi, I tried to install ubport on BQ M10 FHD. I saw an error message, and after rebooting, I find a system very similar as my precedent ubuntu, just lost config  and so on. How to be sure if I have ubport system or the precedent ubuntu one ?
<tgBot> <peternerlich> Hello Xavier and welcome! I'm part of the UBports welcoming team. â¦ To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
<tgBot> <peternerlich> Also, you might be overwhelmed by the amount of messages going through our groups at times, but still interested to stay up to date about our project. In this case, lucky you, there's a brand new News Channel! @UBports_News
<tgBot> <peternerlich> @Xavier G., would you like to discuss this in the welcome room (https://t.me/joinchat/Baj4lhJ4XRotoeGk1QxuRQ)? Longer discussions (especially with beginners or users who just joined) are better off there, because they don't block the supergroup for everyone. And install problems often tend to produce long discussions ð
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> gtk+ works fine in xmir not natively
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> but there was mir port of gtk begun
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> A news item with a News Desk link has just been dropped in the UBports News Channel.  To learn more about this news be sure to subscribe to the News Channel here: https://t.me/ubports_news
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> https://developer.gnome.org/gtk3/stable/gtk-mir.html
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> on my ut this is not present
<tgBot> <alan_griffiths> Don't wast your time on trying to use gtk-mir. It was mostly unusable until 17.04, not finished when that was released, and was abandoned after that.
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @alan_griffiths, it is a dead end now?
<tgBot> <sverzegnassi> (Photo, 1280x720) https://irc.ubports.com/bNZFP52O/file_2850.jpg QtWidgets works generally 'okay-ish' on Mir, but I haven't dug into it very much
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> found it on github: â¦ https://github.com/GNOME/gtk/tree/master/gdk/mir
<tgBot> <alan_griffiths> @KrisJacewicz, Canonical are focussed on having Mir servers support Wayland, not on toolkits supporting the mirclient API. I've not heard of anyone picking up that work (and I would recommend against it - there are better places to invest effort).
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> also found rhis old mailing list about that mentions not only gtk+ but even gtk3: â¦ https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/mir-devel/2013-August/000355.html
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @alan_griffiths, when wayland support arrives, can one expect that a wayland port of gtk (if that happens) would work on wayland-supporting mir as well?
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> afaik there is no gtk port for wayland as of now either. could be wrong.
<tgBot> <alan_griffiths> gnome uses gtk+ and mutter both of which support wayland (which is the default on Ubuntu 17.10)
<tgBot> <alan_griffiths> IME gnome apps require the Wayland "xdg-shell" extension. Mir doesn't currently support that extension.
<tgBot> <alan_griffiths> There should probably be a UBports forum post covering this area. (Toolkit support, Mir current state & evolution, UBports current state & evolution)
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> thank you for this information
<tgBot> <padraic7a> @alan_griffiths, +1 sounds sensible
<tgBot> <Jaume81> @PhoenixLandPirate, ðð¼ but what folder?
<tgBot> <dohbee> @KrisJacewicz, It's why Mir is getting support for Wayland clients
<tgBot> <theMitu> @shen feng, Oh! :) Does anyone know if it is halium based or build somehow differently?
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @dohbee, do you have any information if gtk port for wayland is worked on by anyone?
<tgBot> <dohbee> gtk+ is all about wayland. wayland is a core part of the gnome-shell direction
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @dohbee, i understand just curious if this is already worked on by some team or to be expected to eventually be worked on. because i tried googling it and didn't find answer.
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> for example on plasma mobile gtk is ran by xwayland still as of today
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> i mean gtk+ i have not tried gtk3 so i dont know
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @bhushanshah perhaps would you know  ?
<tgBot> <dohbee> gtk2 is not getting improved no. you should be using gtk3
<tgBot> <bhushanshah> For plasma mobile we are not running GTK/3 in Wayland because it uses memfd_create syscall which is not available in ooooooold kernels
<tgBot> <dohbee> and gtk1 definitely won't get any wayland support
<tgBot> <bhushanshah> And I haven't bothered to backport it to 3.4 kernel yet
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @bhushanshah, and gtk2 is not considered even yes?
<tgBot> <bhushanshah> Or 3.10 kernel
<tgBot> <bhushanshah> @KrisJacewicz, It doesn't support Wayland
<tgBot> <bhushanshah> (iirc)
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @bhushanshah, but xwayland will continue to run it?
<tgBot> <dohbee> yes
<tgBot> <dohbee> xwayland will continue to be a necessary evil for some time
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> well some good bit of information just happened here
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @bhushanshah, also if you didn't bother means you will not consider that right?
<tgBot> <dohbee> ie, i don't think anyone at Valve is working on steam or steam games on wayland
<tgBot> <bhushanshah> It's too much work
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> i also want to add an information from what i have tested on UT. I i stalled gtk3 and i know it was installed successfully because gtk3 app runs from UT over ssh with x forwarding. â¦ However it will not start in Xmir. So Xmir will only run gtk2. â¦ Anyone has an idea how come this is the case? Alan, would you know by chance?
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> btw, Alan: i just noticed that I cannot use @ to mention you in my messages.
<tgBot> <dohbee> gtk3 apps work under xmir
<tgBot> <alan_griffiths> It is not the case.
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @dohbee, i have tested on MX4 and two Nexus 5 phones and i report that it does not work
<tgBot> <dohbee> at least, they work under xmir in my vm with unity8
<tgBot> <dohbee> please elaborate on what "does not work" means exactly
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> first of all i can confirm that UT image does not include gtk3 it has to be installed with apt get
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> seco dly after i install it it will only work over ssh with x forwarding but not via xmir
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> i emphasize that this is tested on the 3 phones i have
<tgBot> <dohbee> well sure it doesn't include gtk3
<tgBot> <dohbee> but if you install a gtk3 app in libertine, it should work fine
<tgBot> <dohbee> ie, gtk3 app works fine under xmir
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @dohbee, well i use desktop launcher exactly same as for gtk2 app but when i use it to start an app it closes down and the app does not show up on the phone screen
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> but it does show up on desktop over ssh
<tgBot> <dohbee> @KrisJacewicz, how not? describe the failure mode. what does the log say for the app? "doesn't work" isn't helpful to give you an answer
<tgBot> <dohbee> what is the Exec= line for the launcher?
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @dohbee, i have not tested with liberti e so I do not know really, but in case of the xmir without libertine it does not start i will try now again see if i can collect any error message
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @dohbee, the exec line is just the path to the executable nothing else
<tgBot> <dohbee> then it's probably trying to use the mir backend.
<tgBot> <dohbee> and that is probably failing
<tgBot> <dohbee> check the log for the app in ~/.cache/upstart/
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @dohbee, i will try to do this now
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @dohbee, if this is true should there be some environmental variable set for it to know not to do that?
<tgBot> <dohbee> does the .desktop file have the mir flag set?
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> yes two of them
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> also the thing that gtk3 was not part of my ut image is the case
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> even in order to run gtk3 app over ssh i had to first: â¦ $ sudo apt-get install libgrk-3-0
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> i know that libgtk-3-0-dev is not expected to be included by default but i mean the actual grk3 not the dev was missing
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> mx4 and nexus5 images
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> you can guys check your own devices and maybe you also will find it missing
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> so that also is a red flag
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> *libgrk is just typo btw
<tgBot> <dohbee> @KrisJacewicz, yes, but gtk3 was not a supported target toolkit for the phone, and installing it brings in a lot of extra stuff.
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> for running: libgtk-3-0 â¦ for dev: libgtk-3-dev  â¦ i used these packages in my testing
<tgBot> <dohbee> fltk is not installed either :)
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @dohbee, alright i actually understand this  rationale but still it is a bit of a red flag to me. ie xmir is there since someone figured out it was still important to support gtk2. and gtk3 if it is supported in deed was not as important? Or is it that xmir originally was only meant to run gtk2 apps that Canonical used in convergence scenario like libreoffice and such? i am a little puzzled
<tgBot> <dohbee> xmir is there for libertine
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> but will try to get any error logs from trying to run gtk3 app in the phone screen via xmir
<tgBot> <dohbee> the "convergence" story for running legacy apps like libreoffice/firefox was always libertine
<tgBot> <dohbee> xmir is part of facilitating that
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @dohbee, the earliest i used UT and xmir I remember there was no libertine yet. i mean maybe there was libertine but i dont remember the website being there. like if libertine actually came later and it became a part of ut.
<tgBot> <dohbee> xmir itself doesn't do the confinement stuff for runnign apps
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> thats how i remwmber i dont actually know how it was
<tgBot> <dohbee> well, libertine without xmir was not useful, so initial xmir bits were developed first yes
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> ok at this point i want to get any logs from the gtk scenario via xmir without libertine see if there is any hint
<tgBot> <alan_griffiths> @KrisJacewicz Xmir isn't specific to phone or toolkit. It works on desktops as well and with gtk3 applications. It is only an X11 server implemented as a Mir client. It doesn't matter if you're using gtk2, gtk3 or Qt "xcb" backend or X11 directly, it just translates X11 calls to Mir.
<tgBot> <dohbee> i mean i was sat in hotel conference rooms next to the people building xmir and libertine
<tgBot> <dohbee> so i think i have a pretty good idea of why stuff was being built :)
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @dohbee, yeah i am not questioning this
<tgBot> Hannes Lindner was added by: Hannes Lindner
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @alan_griffiths, that is what i was thinking too, i thought xmir was bit like xfvb but with a visible window
<tgBot> <dohbee> xmir is more like xnest
<tgBot> <alan_griffiths> ..or Xwayland
<tgBot> <dohbee> it's just running an x server on top of mir
<tgBot> <dohbee> sure
<tgBot> <dohbee> well, xwayland runs a single server for all x apps
<tgBot> <dohbee> not sure if it likes it if you try to run multiple xwayland instances
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> so i trust you guys about the gtk3 part it also all make sense when i read it, but i just couldnt start the app in xmir so i will want to colelct some debug info. i am leaning toward the proposed explanation that gtk3 was trying to use mir backend
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @alan_griffiths, i really thought that xwayland is quite significantly different from xmir
<tgBot> <alan_griffiths> Xwayland is exactly as happy as Xmir about running multiple instances. The only issues are that it doesn't have an internal WM or a "-rootless" mode.
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> for instance in plasma movile you do not need to use any special flags or anything in the command line when running grk2 app
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> it will just know to run xwayland
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> it seems very different feom xmir
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> @dohbee, x... waaaaaaaaaayland?
<tgBot> <alan_griffiths> That's the launcher detecting an attempt to connect to an X server. Nothing to do with Xwayland itself
<tgBot> <dohbee> Xwaylaid
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @alan_griffiths, even if you just use command line in terminal?
<tgBot> <dohbee> or xwayland is just already running
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> @dohbee, xwayneoutthere
<tgBot> <alan_griffiths> I'm not sure of the mechanics, IIRC *something* listens to the socket and starts Xwayland on demand.
<tgBot> <alan_griffiths> Xwayland just does one job. It doesn't magically launch itself, it doesn't do window management, etc.
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> i cannot test the error logs here with the phone i have, because i can find the gtk3 app on it that i tested with. i will be back from china on sunday and i hv it on my mx4 will collect debug info then
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> also i was told that xwayland uses glamor, and xmir, if i understood properly (which idk if i had) on ARM is missing any form of accelerated graphics?
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/Glamor/
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> although xmir on desktop has accelerated graphics, is that correct?
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> also here in China i cant fetch debs with apt get :(  â¦ "temporary failure resolving ppa.launchpad.net"
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> will not be able to do this before im back to Taiwan
<tgBot> <SergioSRM> @KrisJacewicz, The Great Wall of China
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @alan_griffiths, something about window managing though, i noticed that xwayland apps on plasma dont start fullscreen but with a margin around (at least ones i tried). xmir is full screen. in staged mode that is. in windowed mode it is just a window. however app inside xmir will not automatically fill the client area unless u also start some window manager. xwayland app however, it seems, either does not work lile xmir in terms of its own windo
<tgBot> it at least manahes main form to fill the client area which normally a window manager would be responsible of doing.
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @SergioSRM, at least i get telegram (not without a bit of hassle)
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> (Photo, 480x480) https://irc.ubports.com/hHnilw1N/file_2853.jpg
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> in comparison with xmir something very interesting is happening differently here
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> especially since apparently xwayland does not do window management
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> thw libre office definitwly gor resized to non default bounds, and see around the app you can see other apps under it
<tgBot> <FreeInside_fr> Hello, is it normal that the camera and tagger does not ask permission to access the camera? And is it normal that in permissions the camera line remains grayed out? I have an oneplus one in RC
<tgBot> <FreeInside_fr> (Photo, 1080x1920) https://irc.ubports.com/y0D0y8O0/file_2855.jpg
<tgBot> <FreeInside_fr> I couldn't find an issues for that.
<tgBot> <milkor73> @Hannes Lindner, Hello Hannes and welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    â¦ To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
<tgBot> <Flohack> @FreeInside_fr, no its not normal ^^
<tgBot> <FreeInside_fr> Okay, thank you, do I open an issues ? I've never done that before.
<tgBot> <FreeInside_fr> Does anyone have the same problem ?
<tgBot> <Seumas> Can we try some more novel ideas for getting Audacity working in Libertine and have it run past initial boot up?
<tgBot> <dohbee> since i've never tried to run audacity in libertine, i'm not sure what would not be working
<tgBot> <Seumas> Wondering if there's a nifty, not-by-default plugin like "vlc-sdl-plugin" (IIRC) which would help it or perhaps there's a qt version of it and we've unknowingly been trying to install the gtk variant?
<tgBot> <dohbee> i'm installing it in a container now to see what happens
<tgBot> <dohbee> well, unity8 crashed
<tgBot> <dohbee> so yeah, unity8 just crashes for me when i try to run audacity
<tgBot> <dohbee> no idea what the issue is for you, but i definitely can't run it from libertine in my vm
<tgBot> <samzn> libertine are having some issues
<tgBot> <Seumas> Can we presume it's a Unity 8 issue for UT devices too?
<tgBot> <dohbee> i'm pretty sure the issue i'm seeing isn't "libertine is having some issues"
<tgBot> <dohbee> more like mir/xmir or something
<tgBot> <dohbee> @Seumas, no idea, this is 16.04 mostly as unity8 was in april
<tgBot> <Seumas> It's a shame as it's an audio editing app rather than anything to do with video or graphical gameplay. So you wouldn't *think* UT would choke on it.
<tgBot> <Seumas> I hope we can get it running soon enough.
<tgBot> <dohbee> well, what happens for you exactly? what does the log file for audacity in ~/.cache/upstart/ say about it?
<tgBot> <Seumas> I uninstalled it a while back, but will redo it tonight to check for you.
<tgBot> <Seumas> In other news:
<tgBot> <Seumas> Did that pic show? But I got a 4GB/64GB Meizu Pro 5 from China to upgrade from my MX4 :)
<tgBot> <dohbee> no pic here
<tgBot> <Rawcode> if my lovely Nexus 5 dies, what phone do you recommend?
<tgBot> <Rawcode> @Rawcode, fully compatible with ut, of course
<tgBot> <dohbee> another nexus 5 :)
<tgBot> <samzn> I've got 3 hammerheads :)
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> on Sunday i will see how audacity behaves withour libertine
<tgBot> <dohbee> i tried to get a hammerhead but the city won't let me build a tank that big
<tgBot> <Rawcode> @dohbee, lol
<tgBot> <Rawcode> nexus 5 is the best phone out there for me. i really love it, but isn't it necessary a phone with more ram for example?
<tgBot> <dohbee> necessary for what exactly?
<tgBot> <dohbee> i used a nexus 5 with ubuntu as a daily device for over 2 years
<tgBot> <samzn> The N9 is still the best phone ever made hands down
<tgBot> <Rawcode> if i understand correctly, my nexus 5 for example keeps crashing because of unity demanding a lot of memory
<tgBot> <dohbee> @Rawcode, more ram doesn't fix memory leaks
<tgBot> <Rawcode> @dohbee, understand, thanks :)
<tgBot> <Lukas> @dohbee, ððð
<tgBot> <dohbee> also, i have no idea why unity8 might be crashing on your phone all the time, if it is
<tgBot> <Seumas> Can't believe I have to ask this but any tips for prising open the SIM card slot on the Pro 5?
<tgBot> <dohbee> does it not include a sim tool?
<tgBot> <Seumas> It does, but this process always seems to be laborious.
<tgBot> <SergioSRM> @samzn, N9? Nexus 9? ð
<tgBot> <dohbee> nokia n9
<tgBot> <dohbee> nexus 9 is a tablet
<tgBot> <Jaume81> @Seumas, You can open with the other phone.
<tgBot> <Seumas> I don't undertand?
<tgBot> <Seumas> *understand
<tgBot> <Jaume81> Wait a minut.
<tgBot> <Seumas> (Photo, 1280x720) https://irc.ubports.com/0tKy77CT/file_2857.jpg
<tgBot> <Seumas> (Photo, 1280x720) https://irc.ubports.com/poDqoc1U/file_2859.jpg
<tgBot> <dohbee> if you try to open a sim slot with another phone, you'll just end up with two broken phones
<tgBot> <Seumas> Ok, I got it, it's just rather fiddly (again as with any phone).
<tgBot> <Seumas> Hope the process to move it from Flyme to Ubports isn't too strenuous.
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> installed audacity on nexus 5 without container and also installed libatk-adaptor and libgali-common with it. â¦ starting audacity reboots the phone.  â¦ I found this: https://github.com/dnschneid/crouton/issues/165 â¦ i even removed phabled from group audio as per last suggestion but plenty of errors came up the alrhough GUI showed up. But it crashed eventually. didn't reboot the phone.
<tgBot> <Seumas> Just installed Audacity back to the M10. *In fairness*, it doesn't auto-crash. I can view the menus and what have you.
<tgBot> <dohbee> ok, wonder what is not working for you then
<tgBot> <Seumas> Went to import MP3 and at the end of the import dialog, it crashed.
<tgBot> lastdon82 was added by: lastdon82
<tgBot> <Seumas> For the sake of argument, I'll test importing an .ogg.
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> i ll sleep now if i learn anything new i ll share but the linked page points out to some possible issues if anyone cares to explore.
<tgBot> <Jaume81> @Seumas, What? You can copy to main storage or sdcard
<tgBot> <Jaume81> Copy-paste
<tgBot> <Seumas> I mean, import MP3 audio within Audacity so I can edit in it.
<tgBot> <Jaume81> Are you in Ubports version?
<tgBot> <Seumas> You mean something different I think.
<tgBot> <Seumas> Yes.
<tgBot> <dohbee> @Jaume81, please read the context before posting. you're creating confusion with unrelated comments like this.
<tgBot> <Seumas> Hmmm... a .ogg file seems to work. I see the sound wave peaks and everything.
<tgBot> <dohbee> cool
<tgBot> <dohbee> mp3 might be missing some extra package perhaps
<tgBot> <Jaume81> @Seumas, Audacity with Libertine? I don't know if it's stable
<tgBot> <dohbee> inside the libertine
<tgBot> <dohbee> container
<tgBot> <Seumas> Yes.
<tgBot> <Seumas> Famous last words. Tried to play that file and it crashed, rebooting the tablet.
<tgBot> <lastdon82> Hi everyone
<tgBot> <lastdon82> How many of you have flashed and port their Ubuntu Meizu Pro5?
<tgBot> <Seumas> I will check out Kris's link.
<tgBot> <Seumas> But first, let's look at the log like you suggested Rodney.
<tgBot> <Seumas> Nick, funny you should ask, I am going to do exactly that with my brand new 64GB MP5.
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @lastdon82, Hello Nick and welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    â¦ To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
<tgBot> <Seumas> Ok. Want to look at the log file, but the UT terminal doesn't let you scroll through it's ls printout (I don't think?). What would the file be called?
<tgBot> <Seumas> I tried to tab from "au" but nothing.
<tgBot> <dohbee> it's a long name with *audacity* in the middle
<tgBot> <dohbee> so try *aud<tab>
<tgBot> <samzn> (Sticker, 512x512) https://irc.ubports.com/Hz20A1wM/file_2860
<tgBot> <dohbee> no pepe
<tgBot> <samzn> Why not
<tgBot> <Seumas> Tried "find. -name *aud" but no dice, how come?
<tgBot> <lastdon82> @Stereofont, Thanks
<tgBot> Janos Nagy was added by: Janos Nagy
<tgBot> <delijati> is there a ubports overlay for 16.04 LTS that can be used on desktop? ... i have some problems with packages that are in the repo but not working ... aka https://github.com/ubuntu-libertine/libertine/issues/1#issuecomment-351498843
<tgBot> <Seumas> @dohbee ?
<tgBot> <peternerlich> Hello Janos and welcome! I'm part of the UBports welcoming team. â¦ To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
<tgBot> <dohbee> @Seumas, yes?
<tgBot> <dohbee> oh
<tgBot> <dohbee> you need to escape the * if you use find
<tgBot> <dohbee> ie `find . -name "*aud*"` and also note that you need * on both sides
<tgBot> <lastdon82> @Seumas, How is it going?
<tgBot> <Seumas> Nick, gonna try it soon, wanted to charge the phone to 100% first.
<tgBot> <Seumas> Rodney, thanks. Log incoming.
<tgBot> <Seumas> Decided to print screen the first page instead of clogging up the supergroup with a massive textdump.
<tgBot> <Seumas> (Photo, 1280x800) https://irc.ubports.com/DBDjkpSv/file_2862.jpg
<tgBot> <Seumas> Let me know if you'd like me to scroll down and show more.
<tgBot> <dohbee> well you could use pastebin
<tgBot> <dohbee> ie https://paste.ubuntu.com
<tgBot> <Seumas> Would you prefer that?
<tgBot> <dohbee> would be easier to read for sure
<tgBot> <Seumas> Ok be a couple mins.
<tgBot> <lastdon82> @Seumas, Kindly let me know how it goes. I am planning to going with the instructions on the UBports site
<tgBot> <Seumas> Rodney, http://paste.ubuntu.com/26179071/
<tgBot> <Seumas> Nick, do you have 32GB or 64GB version?
<tgBot> <lastdon82> @Seumas, 32GB
<tgBot> <Seumas> Should have gone for the top-end :P but yes I will report on progress.
<tgBot> <Seumas> I went for 64GB to ensure I can basically install apps indefinetly, both clicks and Libertine stuff, and I have a 128GB card for documents etc.
<tgBot> <Seumas> 16GB for everything on my MX4 was starting to cramp.
<tgBot> <lastdon82> @Seumas, I believe you got an andriod version because I don't recall the Ubuntu models having 64GB
<tgBot> <lastdon82> @Seumas, I do have a 128GB SD
<tgBot> <Seumas> You're quite right, few people have moved the 64GB Android version to Ubuntu, but it's ideal for it.
<tgBot> <lastdon82> @Seumas, Are you following the instructions on the UBports site for your PRO5 or using another option?
<tgBot> <Seumas> Going according to this:
<tgBot> <Seumas> https://askubuntu.com/questions/800888/can-ubuntu-touch-be-installed-on-64gb-memory-version-of-meizu-pro-5?noredirect=1&lq=1
<tgBot> <Seumas> I would stick with UBports for you. My Android version's rootfs has to be resized first to accept a Ubuntu rootfs and installation.
<tgBot> <lastdon82> Ok
<tgBot> <lastdon82> Thanks...will try tonight
<tgBot> <Seumas> Part of me even wants to try a dualboot, because FlymeOS does run like a dream on it. But no, Google are too spyware oriented, have to shun them.
<tgBot> <lastdon82> I will try it with my BQ as well...i left them and started using blackberry but unfortunately they are now using android which is quite sad
<tgBot> <dohbee> 4gb octacore, most anything will run smooth on it
<tgBot> <lastdon82> I want to get my Meizu going again and develop couple of apps again
<tgBot> <lastdon82> @dohbee, Very true
<tgBot> <Seumas> F yes.
<tgBot> <Seumas> Rodney, any thoughts on the log file?
<tgBot> <dohbee> sorry i didn't see the link earlier, looking
<tgBot> <dohbee> ok, not sure why exactly it crashed, but portaudio is failing to grab an alsa device (which makes sense as it's not exposed to the container)
<tgBot> <dohbee> maybe there is a bug where it crashes if you try to play in that situation
<tgBot> <Seumas> Is it possible to expose the alsa devices to the container?
<tgBot> <dohbee> well pulseaudio should work, and audacity should work with pulseaudio
<tgBot> <dohbee> not sure why it isn't doing so though
<tgBot> <dohbee> @Seumas, can you take a screenshot of the running audacity window?
<tgBot> <Seumas> If any Libertine gurus would like to speak up, that'd be great :)
<tgBot> <Seumas> Yeah I'll screenshot soon.
<tgBot> <dohbee> it would be easier for me to help if i could run it in my vm, but i digress
<tgBot> <Flohack> @dohbee, I got the code in the push server. Unfortunately broadcasts are hardcoded now to "system" channel and can only be used for update notifications. We need to change this in the future maybe
<tgBot> <Flohack> But despite it replies with OK no broadcast is sent
<tgBot> <Flohack> thats strange
<tgBot> <dohbee> no idea
<tgBot> <Flohack> @dohbee, This is the idea: https://github.com/ubports/system-settings/blob/fe0f0a7e488f9ed97812c268d7fb341218a135f3/push-helper/software_updates_helper.py#L108 and following lines explain a bit.
<tgBot> <dohbee> sure but your issue is sending the broadcast notification from the system-image server to the push server, right?
<tgBot> <Flohack> well I suspect that the simple server we use now just eats up the notifications. I can craft them manually but need to know if the notification is acutally queued to the phones which it seems not to be the case
<tgBot> <Stereofont> Patreon have backed down â¦
<tgBot> <Seumas> Sorry, what are you saying about Patreon?
<tgBot> <Stereofont> The fees increase has been halted
<tgBot> <Seumas> Ah, a UK goverment-style U-turn.
<tgBot> <Stereofont> Not exactly. They apologised for getting it wrong ð
<tgBot> <Seumas> Hahaha right ;)
<tgBot> ensigeon was added by: ensigeon
<tgBot> <peternerlich> Hello @ensigeon and welcome! I'm part of the UBports welcoming team. â¦ To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
<tgBot> <Seumas> @Seumas, After a bit of fumbling around in the dark, I might be close to getting Ubports on my new MP5 :)
<tgBot> <Seumas> Glad to see the boot screen loader on the phone.
<tgBot> <Seumas> Btw didn't mean to quote myself there.
<tgBot> <Seumas> And we are LIVE on the phone! :D
<tgBot> <Flohack> @Seumas, Photo or it didnt hapoen xd
#ubports 2017-12-14
<tgBot> <Seumas> (Photo, 800x453) https://irc.ubports.com/nQtdqOth/file_2868.jpg See that sweet ~57GB free?
<tgBot> <Seumas> (Photo, 800x453) https://irc.ubports.com/hzFZinm0/file_2870.jpg My sweet babies!
<tgBot> <Seumas> Sorry for potato quality, the PS Vita camera isn't up to much, but it had to cover while these guys posed ;)
<tgBot> <Seumas> @lastdon82, It was ok really. There seems to be numerous different ways of doing it. I unlocked the Android/FlymeOS's bootloader, installed TWRP and wiped everything from it, downloaded the turbo recovery image and used ubuntu-device-flash to push it to the phone on the boot mode.
<tgBot> <Seumas> But as you started from a Canonical phone, you probably just need those last two steps.
<tgBot> <Xenial> How does the fingerprint scan works under ubports on pro5?
<tgBot> <Seumas> No complaints. Probably just gonna stick to my thumbs. Right one works like a charm. And will use normal security whenever I think my drunk and unconscious thumb may compromise me at parties :P
<tgBot> <Xenial> Cool. I was thinking on one plus one but it seems one plus three is coming along the way
<tgBot> <Xenial> I'll wait to see what's happen
<tgBot> <Seumas> Fair. I think the MP5 is the best supercharged phone for a budget. Â£165 or so for this, 64GB OP version and for some reason no import duty had to be paid. Bargain!
<tgBot> <Seumas> Chinese import I should clarify.
<tgBot> <Jaume81> @Xenial, Fingerprint works fine
<tgBot> <Seumas> Hmmm after reboots the passwords for WiFi networks don't seem to persist, is this a known bug for turbo?
<tgBot> <dohbee> check if the network settings were stored in /etc/NetworkManager/system-connections
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> @dohbee, how did mp3 become the standard?  we need to fix that bug.  Ogg and flac are awesome.  MP3 has proprietary stuff in there...
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> MP3 is free now, Wayne.
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> The patents expired
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> @lastdon82, another one bites the dust.... i recall that Blackberry was actually a Canadian company.  We only had maple syrup, trees and blackberry so it's sad to see one of our only three items disappear.
<tgBot> <Seumas> I have to rip most my stuff in MP3 so my Playstations can use them for custom soundtracks. But I agree ogg is better quality. If I know I just want it on a device to listen to on the go, I go for ogg rips.
<tgBot> <Seumas> Will check soon Rodney.
<tgBot> <lastdon82> @wayneoutthere, I think they should have sticked with BB10 but is quite unfortunate. When i started using my Pro5 people use to ask me what OS i was using? When i told them it was Ubuntu they were amazed. I created couple apps for RBC, Sunlife and Go Train
<tgBot> <Seumas> ^would love to try those paps when I move to your wonderful country <3
<tgBot> <Seumas> *apps
<tgBot> <lastdon82> i have to move them to the open store
<tgBot> <lastdon82> i really want to see UBports succed
<tgBot> <lastdon82> i was not happy with canonical let us down. i invested in Meizu Pro5 and BQ tablet
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> @Seumas, so is this news? Or just your own battle against a device that should have worked?  :)  I'm always feeling around for news pieces...
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> @lastdon82, what awesome country do you live in??  this seems like an impossible story
<tgBot> <lastdon82> Canada
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> @Seumas, paps... i am excited to tell you that paps means 'breasts' so... be careful
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> @lastdon82, GET OUT OF TOWN!
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> a canadian brutha???
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> parlez vous frenchais??
<tgBot> <lastdon82> yes :)
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> I'm vancouver and my family is forcing me to eat dinner but... talk soon!
<tgBot> <Seumas> Hahaha. I bet there's only a handful of people who ever converted the "turbo plus", if you will, to UBP. So yes somewhat unique.
<tgBot> <lastdon82> @wayneoutthere, peu
<tgBot> <lastdon82> lol
<tgBot> <lastdon82> @wayneoutthere, I am in Toronto
<tgBot> <Seumas> Can't get ADB access or phablet-shell into this phone :(
<tgBot> <Seumas> No permission dialog that I've seen unlike my other devices.
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @Seumas, hope in your case it has nothing to do with broken nvram
<tgBot> <dohbee> @Seumas, Did you enable Dev mode?
<tgBot> <Seumas> Yup.
<tgBot> <Seumas> SSH won't work either, argh.
<tgBot> <Seumas> Any tips?
<tgBot> <Seumas> error: device unauthorized. Please check the confirmation dialog on your device.
<tgBot> <Seumas> Trying to go with "the easiest possibility" : https://wiki.ubports.com/wiki/How-to-work-around-missing-ADB-functionality
<tgBot> <Seumas> but not quite there yet.
<tgBot> <dohbee> Is rotation lock indicator working?
<tgBot> <dohbee> If not, that's why you don't get auth dialog. Try rebooting.
<tgBot> <Seumas> It is working. But I got the confirmation dialog when trying with my mini Ubuntu desktop. Not sure why my usual workhorse should have issues.
<tgBot> <dohbee> USB connection maybe. Sometimes can be weird, especially with the meizu phonee
<tgBot> <Javacookies> do I remember it correctly? 16.04 needs =>3.10 kernel?
<tgBot> <Javacookies> Nexus 5 is still in 3.4
<tgBot> <Seumas> Problem is the computer where it DOES work is on Artful (17.10) with no installation candidate for phablet-tools
<tgBot> <Seumas> Ok I managed adb shell, but then I get this when I try to create a Libertine container:
<tgBot> <Seumas> phablet@ubuntu-phablet:~$ libertine-container-manager create âid vivid âname "vivid" âdistro vivid âtype chroot â¦ I: Retrieving Release  â¦ E: Failed getting release file http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports/dists/vivid/Release â¦ Failed to create container â¦ phablet@ubuntu-phablet:~$
<tgBot> <Seumas> Should I change the source file? I really want the desktop apps like how my other devices have them.
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @Seumas, inwrote abr this
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> vivid reached end of live
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> so sources.list needs updating
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> search this group chat for "sources.liat" u will find my posts
<tgBot> <Seumas> Right, on rootfs correct?
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> or use my lazarus installer to fix it automatically no need to install lazarus
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> $ wget https://sourceforge.net/projects/lazarus-for-raspi-and-ut/files/lazfpc4ut.tar.gz
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> $ tar -xf lazfpc4ut.tar.gz
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> then: â¦ $ sido ./lazfpc4ut
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> WITH SUDO
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> it will ask if to fix siources.list type y
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> for ecerything else tupe n
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @Seumas, both
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> libertine as well anywhere u hv vivid
<tgBot> <Seumas> I changed all the links in the source.list file, tried to create the container again, but same error?
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> bcuz the container yries to use old sources
<tgBot> <Seumas> So how to fix that?
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> more ways than one
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> coult make fake dnd for example
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> but signing might not work
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> u need to alter sourcesbin the container somehow
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> if u had old rootf would be gaster
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> *fake dns
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> i would just edit libertine script
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> add pause before chrooting into rootfd
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> manually update and let tje script continue
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> that s what i would do
<tgBot> <Seumas> This is the fix I think:
<tgBot> <Seumas> https://forums.ubports.com/topic/792/libertine-installation-broken-on-vivid
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @Seumas, libertine script doeload rootfs and chroot into it to continue inst. u can update sources in the script
<tgBot> <Seumas> "and add old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu to the end of the debootstrap command in the same file (after the {}s)"
<tgBot> <Seumas> I don't get that part.
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @Seumas, it tells u how to edit installation script
<tgBot> <Seumas> Yes but not sure if I got it right.
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> there is a command calling debootstrab
<tgBot> <Seumas> So is it:
<tgBot> <Seumas> # Create the actual chroot â¦ $nt=fakechroot {} {} old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu".format( â¦                     self.installed_release, self.root_path)
<tgBot> <Seumas> ?
<tgBot> <Seumas> Or something else?
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> i cant help u now
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> others should be able to
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> or hit me up later
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> pm
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> because now im on the move
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> if u cant male it work i will write a porogram for u that you start and then in another terminal use the usual normal libwrtinw scripts to install co tainwrer. my program will detect the new containwr and fix sources.apt on the fly and inform u. but i need to first get to aplace where i can sith down with laptop. im now in taxi in China fireawalled and can't help u u tul i reach my destination. could be up to an hour.
<tgBot> <lastdon82> @Seumas, Got my Meizu working now
<tgBot> <lastdon82> Thanks to Will
<tgBot> Pietro Martinez was added by: Pietro Martinez
<tgBot> <Seumas> Can you do me a big favour and create a Pastebin Nick? So we can see precisely what to change.
<tgBot> <Pietro Martinez> Hello to everyone, got a question... Is it possible to use UBports in Puerto Rico with my carrier, which is to be Sprint???
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> @Pietro Martinez, Hello Pietro and welcome! I'm part of the UBports welcoming team. â¦ To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
<tgBot> <mariogrip> @Pietro Martinez, As long as your device supports it that should be fine
<tgBot> <mariogrip> @Pietro Martinez, you can use this to check if your device will work https://willmyphonework.net/
<tgBot> <mariogrip> so to be more clear, if it works with android, it will also work with ubuntu touch
<tgBot> <Pietro Martinez> I have a Samsung galaxy note 5, and yes... also tired of using a Android os.
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> @mariogrip, just to be clear if anyone is accidentally scanning this post, what Marius does *not* mean is that you can put UT on any Samsung (that runs android) - sadly.  Because man.  That would be nice.
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> I accidentally read it without context ;)
<tgBot> <Eelis59> ð
<tgBot> <jonny> I try to use Ubuntu SDK. But it seems like since vivid repos have been disabled (or renamed to something archive like) I cannot update the SDK build targets. Is there a way to tell the SDK where to find the vivid archive repos?
<tgBot> <DanChapman> @jonny, You can update the apt sources.list in the container. In the sdk ide settings you can click the "maintain" button for each click target to get a bash prompt in the container
<tgBot> <jonny> O thanks
<tgBot> <jonny> Which text editor can I use there? I am used to nano but it is not installed.
<tgBot> <DanChapman> I think it has vi but you can always install nano if you prefer
<tgBot> <jonny> No i can't. The repo is not found ð
<tgBot> <jonny> vi does not seem to be installed either...
<tgBot> <jonny> I'll look into that later. But thanks anyway for the hin!
<tgBot> <DanChapman> @jonny, You can also edit the file on your host machine and copy it into the container with `cat file-on-host | lxc exec <container-name> -- /bin/sh -c "/bin/cat > /target/on/lxc/guest"`
<tgBot> <Eelis59> Try to execute aapt program, is part of the SDK. If I'm not misunderstanding what you want.
<tgBot> <delijati> @Flohack is there a overlay to get ubports 16.04 LTS on desktop ...
<tgBot> <delijati> it would be nice to have a working vm that is as close as it can be to ubports phone ...
<tgBot> <Flohack> @delijati, No we only provide armhf bulds ;)
<tgBot> <Flohack> REMINDER: Since today all devel and rc updates will DEACTIVATE push service for Telegram et.al. Dont panic, you are on our push server now ;)
<tgBot> <Flohack> @wayneoutthere this is smth for you to broadcast haha
<tgBot> <delijati> @Flohack, Hmm it would be pretty usefull for app development :/
<tgBot> <Rocco> Hi Florian. I can't access UBports supergroup from UT telegram and also I can't subscribe  from UT telegram. There is a workaround to do this?
<tgBot> <Rawcode> @Rocco, You should download telegram 2.5.1 beta
<tgBot> <Rocco> Ho giÃ  quella versione
<tgBot> <alan_griffiths> @Flohack, I suspect you considered this, but couldn't you make this transparent to the user by inserting logic that tries each server in turn? (Is it hard to detect an inactive server?)
<tgBot> <mariogrip> @alan_griffiths, ah no, the problem is that telegram sends the notifacations directly to canonicals servers, that that switch wont happen to our server until ota3
<tgBot> <alan_griffiths> I see. The phone client can't tell if a server is "alive" on connect, only when it gets a notification.
<tgBot> <mariogrip> @alan_griffiths, well, both servers are alive that's the problem
<tgBot> <mariogrip> but we *could* add a check to a different endpoint that checks if the swich has happend
<tgBot> <Michele> @Rocco, ð®ð¹ð
<tgBot> <alan_griffiths> @mariogrip, I.e. client says "which server should I use", hypothetical meta-server says "this one"
<tgBot> <mariogrip> @alan_griffiths, yeah might be an idea, @Flohack what do you think?
<tgBot> <DanChapman> It's possible to get the client working with both servers but as it's only breaking devel for a week or so it's not really worth the effort IMO. You can always revert the push client config back to point at push.ubuntu.com until OTA-3
<tgBot> <mariogrip> @DanChapman, yeah, true
<tgBot> <DanChapman> I'll post the old config on the forum so that those still wanting notifications on devel can revert it for now.
<tgBot> <Michele> @Flohack, I don't see any updates avaiable on the bq e4.5 rc10
<tgBot> <mariogrip> @Michele, are you on devel?
<tgBot> <Michele> rc
<tgBot> <mariogrip> @Michele, rc is comming later today
<tgBot> <Michele> oh, thanks! I'll wait it patiently ðð»
<tgBot> <Flohack> @alan_griffiths, Makes only sense if we run a cluster of push servers. Currently this would break as the client checks certificates and we use a different one
<tgBot> <alan_griffiths> Agreed, it's too much effort for a one-off transition. (I don't think clustering would be a good use, forwarding to "backend" servers is better for that.)
<tgBot> <sopernam> hi
<tgBot> <sopernam> chroot: can't execute '/system/bin/sh': No such file or directory â¦ im getting this error
<tgBot> <Michele> how can I analize the memory on the disk in my phone? the option in the settings app shows me what takes the memory, but there's a label called "other files" that takes 1.3gb and I want to know what are this files and where can I find them... thanks
<tgBot> <tylnesh> du :)
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @Michele, or apt-get install baobab
<tgBot> <malditobastardo> @Flohack, I'm in devel but I will not update my phone since ota3
<tgBot> <malditobastardo> I mean. Until ota3
<tgBot> <onajjar> @malditobastardo, Anyone knows the date of the OTA3 ?
<tgBot> <Flohack> @onajjar, 21st of Dec
<tgBot> <onajjar> @Flohack, Thanks ! Canât wait for it ! , any webpage about the release and what difference between know and the OTA3
<tgBot> <onajjar> Now*
<tgBot> <Xenial> Hi @Flohack , the current changes on push server will also bring the system-settings notifications? I remember that on Canonical image we receive a notification when a new update system image was available
<tgBot> <DanChapman> Xenial it won't bring it just by switching push server. the ubports system-image server will need updating to broadcast a new system image notification for each channel
<tgBot> <Xenial> Thanks for the clarification @DanChapman !
<tgBot> <Miguel GutiÃ©rrez> espaÃ±a
<tgBot> DanySpin97 was added by: DanySpin97
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @DanySpin97, Hello Danilo and welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    â¦ To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
<tgBot> <DanySpin97> @Stereofont, Hi there, and thank you ^^
<tgBot> <Xenial> OTA-3 will come already without the Ubuntu Store icon ?
<tgBot> <DanySpin97> Is there some screenshots where i can see UBports in action?
<tgBot> <Xenial> You have videos on youtube :D
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @DanySpin97, If you have any issues or questions, you can join the Welcome Room with the link
<tgBot> <Stereofont> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaEA_W3Ej6I
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> @Flohack, PM'ing you now for clarity
<tgBot> <dohbee> @Eelis59, Unlikely. Only GSM phones have been made to work. CDMA would be a lot of work.
<tgBot> <dohbee> @Michele, Are you using a libertine container? Or it coul
<tgBot> <Michele> @KrisJacewicz, but I have to make the image writable, right? and I prefer don't do things like this, as I understood it's not 100% safe...
<tgBot> <dohbee> @Michele, installing baobab on rootfs is indeed not a great plan.
<tgBot> <Seumas> Concerning my last few messages about the Libertine problem. Understand that I felt compelled to stay up until nearly 5 in the morning to try and fix it. So I might not have been making sense towards the end. Sorry about that. But I still want to find out how to fix that Python script to point to the correct sources. Or at a push try another solution such as the one Kris said he could offer.
<tgBot> <Seumas> Looking at this link again:
<tgBot> <Seumas> https://forums.ubports.com/topic/792/libertine-installation-broken-on-vivid
<tgBot> <Rocco> @Michele, Excuse me... I have 2.5.1 telegram version
<tgBot> <Michele> @Rocco, no promblemðð»ð
<tgBot> <Michele> @dohbee, what do you mean?
<tgBot> <dohbee> i mean using apt on rootfs can cause the partition to fill up pretty quickly, and some packages don't deal well with overlay mounts and such, which ubuntu phone makes use of
<tgBot> <Seumas> I do have to say Tonoxis is a little bit vague there. I replaced one mention of the obselete source to the new one, but I don't get where to add it "to the end of the debootstrap command" as clear as it might be. It's probably pretty simple and a solution staring me in the face, but not seeing it just now. If anyone would like to take a look at the Python script and make recommendations, or if Tonoxis himself is a member of the supergroup, I'd dearly
<tgBot> appreciate it.
<tgBot> <Michele> @dohbee, that's why I avoid doing this, but than @KrisJacewicz suggested it...
<tgBot> <dohbee> @Seumas, https://paste.ubuntu.com/26183436/
<tgBot> <dohbee> (that's a diff from the source tree)
<tgBot> <dohbee> @Michele, yes, he is quick to go straight to the "make your system writable and install things" route
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> A news item about the push server and telegram notifications has just been dropped in the UBports News Channel.  To learn more about this news be sure to subscribe to the News Channel here: https://t.me/ubports_news
<tgBot> <Rocco> No one can help me regarding UT telegram? How can I join to UBSports channels?
<tgBot> <dohbee> @Rocco, you have to install telegram 2.5.1 beta builds from github
<tgBot> <Rocco> I have it yet
<tgBot> <Rocco> What's the  procedure?
<tgBot> <dohbee> search for ubports supergroup maybe? or go to ubports website and click on the link to join it
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> No, he means getting to it from inside UT
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> We're a supergroup which isn't supported in the normal app
<tgBot> <dohbee> yes, and he says he has the version that supports it
<tgBot> <dohbee> and last i checked, there is still a web browser installed in ubports :)
<tgBot> <Xenial> And he is already here, so is telegram app should get this chat in his list of chats
<tgBot> <Rocco> @dohbee, I done it without success
<tgBot> <dohbee> @Xenial, i think he wants to use a different username there
<tgBot> <Xenial> i wonder if he is trying to access other ubports groups..
<tgBot> <Michele> @Rocco, are you sure you get telegram from here https://github.com/ubports/telegram-app/releases ?
<tgBot> <Michele> v2.5.0 or 2.5.1 ?
<tgBot> <dohbee> yes, 2.5.1.0
<tgBot> <Rocco> @Xenial, No... Now I'm writing from android phone. I wish connect with the ubuntu phone
<tgBot> <dohbee> https://github.com/ubports/telegram-app/releases/download/v2.5.1/com.ubuntu.telegram_2.5.1.0_armhf.click
<tgBot> <dohbee> that and sideload it
<tgBot> <Rocco> @dohbee, I have it installe
<tgBot> <Rocco> D
<tgBot> <dohbee> ok, not sure why it doesn't work then
<tgBot> <dohbee> ping @Flohack ^^ how to join ubports supergroup with beta tg?
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> did you click the join link ? ;)
<tgBot> <Xenial> Could you send us a print screen of your telegram chats?
<tgBot> <Seumas> Pastebin:
<tgBot> <Seumas> http://paste.ubuntu.com/26183481/
<tgBot> <Rocco> Ok. Thanks. I'll continuevo from my android phone
<tgBot> <Michele> idk how to join supergroups from the ut app, but if you join the supergroup from another platform with the same acocunt it should work...
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> @Rocco, https://t.me/ubports
<tgBot> <Rocco> It doesn't work
<tgBot> <Rocco> Ok ok
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> wacky....
<tgBot> <Rocco> It's OK the same
<tgBot> <Seumas> Sorry if there's redundant repetition of code there, but the native terminal on UT is a bit of a pain to copy (it's easier on a Libertine installed terminal, but don't have that yet on my MP5!).
<tgBot> <dohbee> @Seumas, well enable ssh. :)
<tgBot> <Seumas> Sorry Rodney, didn't see your pastebin before I wrote all that out. That looks great, hope it fixes it, will try later after work. Thanks buddy.
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @Michele, if feeling in doubts then i recommend not to
<tgBot> <Seumas> SSH is a whole other nightmare between all my Ubuntu computers and RPi... one day I'll start from fresh and fix the problems with it.
<tgBot> <Seumas> Chat later guys, cheers.
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @Michele, baobab can be installed in the userspace without making image writable. i dont remember if it maybe required a symlink or few, or not even that but i ran it off a folder in my user home folder.
<tgBot> <Xenial> @wayneoutthere the end of the year is just around the corner, your next podcast could include some talks on predictions about the next year. Then write them, and in the end of next year check it if you were correct
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> but apt-get install cant do that obviously.
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> @Xenial, I like everything you said here... except!  you called it a 'podcast!'   â¦ ð±
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> that's like call your UT device... an iphone!
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> excuse me while I cry myself to sleep
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> joking about the crying and thanks for the suggestions
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> (Sticker, 512x300) https://irc.ubports.com/s9oXm75y/file_2876
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> good thing no one is getting push notifications, eh?  Eh?
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> ding
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> ding
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> ding
<tgBot> <Mohannes> BOOOOMMM!!!!
<tgBot> <Mohannes> Ladies and gentlemen, the Canadian broke the internet yet again
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> GIT, @Mohannes  â¦ Git!
<tgBot> <Mohannes> whats wrong Wayne?
<tgBot> <Mohannes> @Xenial, Great Idea! I will join you guys.
<tgBot> <Flohack> @dohbee, Github release xd I am in a meeting sry
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> wait.... I've seen that logo before....  YOU!
<tgBot> <Mohannes> Ready for round 2? ;)
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> @Mohannes, I will have my people contact your people.
<tgBot> <Mohannes> We should make T-shirts though
<tgBot> <Mohannes> Or stickers, and let the community decide on whos side they are on.
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> haha
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> has anyone ever found themselves staring at a terminal screen and just enjoyed watching the lines go by?  It's so... nice.
<tgBot> <profetik777> @wayneoutthere, Yep lol
<tgBot> <profetik777> In retro terminal it's even cooler
<rapha> hi!
<rapha> why is the Nexus 4 (mako) listed twice, once without comment, once with comment "Experimental"?
<rapha> and a second question, what's the "-ish" in "yes-ish" as the answer to whether ubports runs desktop linux apps?
<tgBot> <Xenial> @wayneoutthere My autocorrect is broken, pardon me.  â¦ Throwing my two cent into the predictions: your show will be an podcast in 2018.
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> @Xenial, it's still broken.
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> you are trying to type 'audiocast' but it keeps making 'podcast'
<tgBot> <dohbee> @rapha, They don't all work, and the support is incomplete for ones that do
<rapha> ic
<rapha> but afa TUI stuff goes there's an xterm or something similar and i can fire up vim or ssh or whatever, yes?
<tgBot> <dohbee> there's a terminal app, yes
<tgBot> <dohbee> and you can create a chroot to install additional cli apps
<tgBot> <dohbee> i don't recall if vim-full and ssh client are installed by default
<rapha> that's nice enough, thanks dohbee
<rapha> and about the Nexus 4's entries in the device list ... do you have any idea why it's listed twice?
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> Someone clicked the wrong button, I suppose
<tgBot> <dohbee> yeah i have no idea about that
<tgBot> abacao was added by: abacao
<tgBot> <abacao> Hello all, quick question â¦ Is the first galaxy nexus from Samsung supported?
<tgBot> <Ern_st> Nope
<tgBot> <Ern_st> and welcome
<tgBot> <abacao> So this doesn't apply anymore? â¦ http://androidcritics.com/how-to-install-ubuntu-touch-os-on-galaxy-nexus-gsm-and-nexus-4/
<tgBot> <sverzegnassi> Correct! Canonical deprecated the support for Galaxy Nexus in January, 2014
<tgBot> <samzn> The gnex is a fantastic phone though
<tgBot> <samzn> I would pay good â¬ for a functional Halium port
<tgBot> <milkor73> @abacao, Hello AndrÃ© and welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    â¦ To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
<tgBot> <abacao> I will... Thanks for the welcomes
<tgBot> <Xenial> AndrÃ© if you're portuguese we have an ubports for portuguese people! @abacao
<tgBot> <abacao> I am
<tgBot> <Sconio> Hello, I would like your opinion on the fact that we can not block calls (phone number) are you thinking of remedying to problem?
<tgBot> <Cesar_Herrera> @Sconio, +1
<tgBot> <Sconio> in France, we are harassed by forced commercial marketing
<tgBot> <Sconio> its not possible in futur
<tgBot> <malditobastardo> @Sconio, Same in Argentina
<tgBot> <Sconio> I'm forced to change my phone number, so the question I'm asking myself is: â¦ Should I stay under ubports or go back under android?
<tgBot> <Sconio> I would be grateful if you could hear this question URGENTLY
<tgBot> <Sconio> Cordially
<tgBot> <malditobastardo> There is a workaround in the forums
<tgBot> <malditobastardo> It's a paid service
<tgBot> <malditobastardo> Use the search button
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @Sconio, There are two different questions here. 1. Block specific  numbers manually 2. Block any number found on a register of known spam numbers. I am guessing that you mean the first? In the UK we have an opt out service and a regulator
<tgBot> <Stereofont> 3. Would be block all numbers not in Contacts
<tgBot> <Sconio> blocking a number from the ubuntu touch settings will be very useful, it's in the sense that I raise this issue
<tgBot> <Sconio> an improvement of the OS
<tgBot> <Sconio> this is native under androÃ¯d
<tgBot> <Stereofont> Assigning a null ringtone would be a workaround I suppose
<tgBot> <Sconio> So why not make it also under ubuntu touch? â¦ Is there a problem of law or license to go in?
<tgBot> <Seumas> @Rocco, Lionel makes good points, but so does Sconio. Is there an opt-out service for providers in the UK?
<tgBot> <Seumas> *in France I mea sorry.
<tgBot> <Seumas> *mean
<tgBot> <Cesar_Herrera> use a ring tone for each people in your list.
<tgBot> <dohbee> @Sconio, Nobody did the work
<tgBot> <Sconio> no it does not solve the problem, prevents the number from coming into contact with the user and with voicemail yes
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @Cesar_Herrera, Or the ringtone could say "spam caller" ð
<tgBot> <dohbee> someone has to do the work
<tgBot> <dohbee> ubports doesn't have a multibillion dollar company like google backing it, unfortunately
<tgBot> <Sconio> https://conso.bloctel.fr/
<tgBot> <Sconio> it does not prevent the unknown number
<tgBot> <Cesar_Herrera> The things related to phone are very apperciated.
<tgBot> <Sconio> it's complicated
<tgBot> <Crash_Burn> @dohbee, What if we all pool our assests?? :P
<tgBot> <dohbee> you are welcome to implement the feature in the dialer app and telephony framework if you know how, and submit patches
<tgBot> <Cesar_Herrera> :(
<tgBot> <dohbee> if you feel you need to use android because of this, then i'd suggest using lineageos
<tgBot> <Cesar_Herrera> Not me.
<tgBot> <Sconio> yes I know Lineage OS without GAPS
<tgBot> <dohbee> well, or with nano gapps, so you can use google store and get notifications and such
<tgBot> <Sconio> I use the least possible google service
<tgBot> <Stereofont> Many telecoms operate spam filters? Choice of spam setting is an option with some?
<tgBot> <Sconio> use asaway, duckduckgo app,
<tgBot> <Sconio> Riot
<tgBot> <Sconio> etc
<tgBot> <dohbee> yes i try to avoid google services too. but push notifications and installing apps from the store requires a google account
<tgBot> <Sconio> no
<tgBot> <Sconio> Fdroid
<tgBot> <JBBgameich> YalpStore is also a solution to download PlayStore stuff without PlayStore and google account
<tgBot> <Sconio> oh tk
<tgBot> <dohbee> whatever, this channel isn't about android :)
<tgBot> <Sconio> Exactly, in this case are we talking about a solution to problem?
<tgBot> <dohbee> are you volunteering to write the code?
<tgBot> <Sconio> this question must be raised to those who work on the project
<tgBot> <dohbee> i don't know if anyone else, but that's what is required, someone to work on it
<tgBot> <dohbee> the people who work on the project are volunteers
<tgBot> <Sconio> do you do any of them at ubports?
<tgBot> <Sconio> donate
<tgBot> <Cesar_Herrera> The programmers may work in what most of the people wants.
<tgBot> <Sconio> yes
<tgBot> <dohbee> well, volunteers will work on what they want to work on
<tgBot> <Flohack> @Sconio, Donations are welcome but its not like that there are hundred people willing to work for us in a paid way. The skills we need are rare: People with a strong Ubuntu/Debian/Linux background who also understand Android internals. Those 2 things are normally not together ^^
<tgBot> <Flohack> So its about finding the right guy, who has time, motivation and skills to hack into it.
<tgBot> <dohbee> and many of them do not necessarily understand regulatory requirements in various countries, or how to implement things with lower level telephony stack
<tgBot> <Flohack> Then we can talk about finanical compensation in a moment when it is necessary for him. But its not that we can hire fulltime people ATM
<tgBot> <Flohack> Mobile world is different than all I have seen so far in IT, yes
<tgBot> <Sconio> oh, ok... its hack
<tgBot> <Cesar_Herrera> A magager may convince a programmer to do something he didn't think initially.
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> No, but it is heavily regulated and confusing
<tgBot> <Flohack> technically its not an issue I assume. Make a phonebook option to say "block this user", then incoming calls would loosely match against that number
<tgBot> <Flohack> then just dont ring
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> But someone needs to do that
<tgBot> <Cesar_Herrera> Sylvia said this ocultation is good for seccurity.
<tgBot> <Seumas> OK Rodney, fix implemented, but another issue will be reported by me (to the supergroup) in a few mins.
<tgBot> <Sconio> Thank you for reacting to this problem.
<tgBot> <dohbee> @Sconio, i used to work on several parts of the stack before canonical killed the projects
<tgBot> <dohbee> i'm mostly here now to help other people understand some of the stuff in that stack
<tgBot> <dohbee> i don't really have time/energy to concentrate on developing anything in it now. maybe when my life is back to being more stable i can, but that will be a while
<tgBot> <Sconio> if need be, I am willing to do one to settle the problem definitively
<tgBot> <Flohack> @Sconio, Please see also this issue already filed: https://github.com/ubports/dialer-app/issues/18
<tgBot> <Flohack> And the companion ticket https://github.com/ubports/address-book-app/issues/7
<tgBot> <Flohack> So we got the requests filed, that means the community is aware of the missing feature. We will need some time, of course, but I am positive that this will get implemented
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @dohbee, Having an 'archaeologist' is meanwhile immensely valuable
<tgBot> <Flohack> @Stereofont, And a lead/network guy who knows whom to poke/ping ;)
<tgBot> <dohbee> there seems to be some blacklisting related "todo" in ofono still too
<tgBot> <dohbee> hmm, though i don't know if it's been fixed upstream
<tgBot> <dohbee> guess not
<tgBot> <dohbee> https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/network/ofono/ofono.git/tree/TODO
<tgBot> <Seumas> Right, so in the pastebin a new bit of code is introduced:
<tgBot> <Seumas> "self._build_fakechroot_command,"
<tgBot> <dohbee> do what?
<tgBot> <Seumas> Running the create container command with those changes results in:
<tgBot> <Seumas> "Trceback (most recent call last):                                                                         â¦   File "/usr/bin/libertine-container-manager", line 517, in <module>                                       â¦     args.func(args)                                                                                        â¦   File "/usr/bin/libertine-container-manager", line 93, in create                                          â¦     if not
<tgBot> container.create_libertine_container(password, args.multiarch, args.verbosity):                 â¦   File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/libertine/Libertine.py", line 332, in create_libertine_container    â¦     return self.container.create_libertine_container(password, multiarch, verbosity)                       â¦   File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/libertine/ChrootContainer.py", line 72, in create_libertine_container
<tgBot>                                                  â¦     self._build_fakechroot_command(), self.installed_release, self.root_path)                              â¦ AttributeError: 'LibertineChroot' object has no attribute '_build_fakechroot_command'"
<tgBot> <dohbee> you did something wrong
<tgBot> <dohbee> you misread the patch
<tgBot> <Seumas> Admittedly it was a bit cumbersome pecking away in the terminal to write the code in manually, but I think I got everything correct.
<tgBot> <dohbee> no, you did not. you added an unchanged line to old code which didn't have that line, i think
<tgBot> <dohbee> you misread the context as being part of the patch
<tgBot> <dohbee> @Seumas, why don't you use phablet-shell? because phablet-tools isn't packaged in 17.10?
<tgBot> <Seumas> Was that function reference meant to be a comment then?
<tgBot> <dohbee> it was context for the patch
<tgBot> <dohbee> because i created it from trunk
<tgBot> <dohbee> to show you what you need to change
<tgBot> <Seumas> I'm doing it manually on the phone, as I'm on a bus and don't have a laptop :P
<tgBot> <dohbee> only the lines with -/+ at the beginning have changes
<tgBot> <Seumas> Ah, I see. Yes sorry but that wasn't clear. Thank you for clarifying.
<tgBot> <Seumas> I'll modify it and try again
<tgBot> <Seumas> Hmmm, now it says:
<tgBot> <Seumas> "E: unknown location old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/vivid/Release"
<tgBot> <dohbee> oh, the other one needs http:// too
<tgBot> <dohbee> like in https://github.com/ubports/libertine/pull/1/files
<tgBot> <Seumas> Ah ok.
<tgBot> <Seumas> Ok we seem to finally be in business :) thank you for your efforts, hiccups were no problem. Glad I'm doing this from home actually because of the wait, so don't have to take chunks out of my data plan to do it.
<tgBot> <Seumas> Couple of final errors:
<tgBot> <Seumas> "Errors were encountered while processing: â¦  x11-common â¦  libxtst6:armhf â¦  isc-dhcp-client â¦  at-spi2-core â¦ E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1) â¦ Failure installing humanity-icon-theme during container creation"
<tgBot> <Seumas> So the process doesn't seem to have fully progressed.
<tgBot> <dohbee> no idea. try again or run `apt-get -f install` in the container
<tgBot> <Seumas> Ok.
<tgBot> <Seumas> I mean I did a libertine-container manager-list and nothing showed up, so I don't think vivid has been born yet on this phone.
<tgBot> <dohbee> so try again
<tgBot> <Seumas> Will do.
<tgBot> <Seumas> Could it be because I'm trying to be clever and do it natively on the phone rather than through a shell?
<tgBot> <dohbee> i have no idea
<tgBot> <dohbee> depends on what actually went wrong
<tgBot> <dohbee> i don't know if there more extensive logs for dpkg outside the container if it got destroyed due to such failure
<tgBot> <Seumas> Well, I'll try both, native first then shell.
<tgBot> RoccoOPO was added by: RoccoOPO
<tgBot> nanu_c was added by: nanu_c
<tgBot> <peternerlich> Hello @RoccoOPO and welcome! I'm part of the UBports welcoming team. â¦ To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
<tgBot> <Seumas> Same (lack of a) result as before via native, but here comes adb-shell to the rescue (I hope).
<rapha> is it likely that the Nexus 4 will be deprecated with UBPorts in the future at some point? Or ist it more likely that at some point it also will be given support for 16.04?
<tgBot> <demokrit atomos> AFAIK there are a few people trying to port Halium to Nexus 4 but no idea how far they are or how far they will get. Considering that the Nexus 4 is relatively well supported by lineage (basis for halium which itself will be the basis for UT 16.04) i'd say its more likely it will at some point get 16.04 (but i am just a community guy here, no official spokesperson so don't put your hand in the fire for my word)
<tgBot> <dohbee> @Seumas, btw, phablet-shell is just a shell script, so if you just grab it from bzr/git or copy it from another machine, you can use it just fine on 17.10
<tgBot> Brian Saia was added by: Brian Saia
<tgBot> <peternerlich> Hello Brian and welcome! I'm part of the UBports welcoming team. â¦ To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
<tgBot> <Brian Saia> thanks peter
<tgBot> <demokrit atomos> @rapha, In fact i just searched the halium group and someone called "revertive" seems to have basic halium up and running on N4 allready...
<tgBot> <Seumas> Do you have a Github link for it, Rodney? I'm drawing a blank.
<tgBot> <dohbee> no, i don't know if it got imported to github or not
<tgBot> <dohbee> @Seumas, https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~phablet-team/phablet-tools/trunk/download/head:/phabletshell-20140512204602-iwzfo5218qr9lyoc-1/phablet-shell
<tgBot> SudoLinux was added by: SudoLinux
<tgBot> <SudoLinux> Hello everyone, I am an young teen that is willing to try out UbPorts, is it good?
<tgBot> <Lyokanthrope> Didn't I just reply to you on Reddit? lol
<tgBot> <SudoLinux> So how will it run on a Nexus 5X, I will get the Nexus 5X on christmas eve?
<tgBot> <Lyokanthrope> @UniversalSuperBox would be the one to ask about that, I think
<tgBot> <SudoLinux> Turns out I cant get it anyway, I guess Ill wait then
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @SudoLinux, 5X is not supported yet. 5 is
<tgBot> <peternerlich> Hello @SudoLinux and welcome! I'm part of the UBports welcoming team. Sorry I none of us noticed you the ten minutes before. â¦ To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! If you're willing to stick around besides not being able to install it, we'd be honored! :)
<tgBot> <SudoLinux> I noticed and I am sad...
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @SudoLinux, It is a good candidate for the future
<tgBot> <Stereofont> If you can find a used and scruffy N5 at a low price you could use that
<tgBot> <Seumas> Thanks Rodney will check it out
<tgBot> <Seumas> But guys, please help with my MP5's WiFi. Just now it won't connect. It continuously shows the enter credentials dialog after a few seconds. Under System Settings, I see that it lists prior networks as "XYZ Network 1, XYZ Network 2" etc. What could be wrong with it?
<tgBot> <Seumas> As in, some of those prior networks are various clones of a given real one.
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @Seumas, I had a problem at one point where WPA protocol was recognised but not WPA2. Unlikely to be that but could be
<tgBot> <Seumas> Can you talk me through some terminal diagnostics which could probe the problem?
<tgBot> <Seumas> And honestly, my home network ISP seems to have wussed out. But that's not the full story because the MP5 won't connect to the MX4's mobile hotspot. Although it was earlier today.
<rapha> demokrit atomos: thanks for that info!
<tgBot> <Seumas> @Stereofont How do I check which protocols the phone is using?
<tgBot> <Seumas> From ip addr I read:
<tgBot> <Seumas> "wlan0: <NO-CARRIER,BROADCAST,MULTICAST,UP,LOWER_UP> mtu 1500 qdisc pfifo_fast state DORMAN group default qlen 1000"
<tgBot> <Stereofont> I switched my router from WPA2 to WPA and it worked. That is how I confirmed
<tgBot> <Stereofont> Subsequent software upgrades resolved it
#ubports 2017-12-15
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> @Sconio, this idea of blocking numbers from known spammers is a great idea.  that would be a huge feature if it was built into the OS or could be installed as an app. Problem is always, though, false registrations of spam.  What if your ex-girlfriend registers your numbers as a spam number ?  ;)
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> @Flohack, can we create an internal school and raise up an army?  I'll be a student!
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> @dohbee, I'm looking forward to stability, too.... but... maybe UBports helps with that journey?  I"m finding it does...
<tgBot> <dohbee> @wayneoutthere, Stop calling her
<tgBot> <PhoenixLandPirate> @wayneoutthere, Sometimes I wonder if I should block my ex's number
<tgBot> <PhoenixLandPirate> @dohbee, This is probably a good idea tbh, especially if you're drunk
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> Seumas do you still need help? use this program, start it in terminal, and then in another terminal just use normal unmdified old libertine scripts to create container:
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> (Document) https://irc.ubports.com/HFhc74N1/file_2877.gz
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> because I was able to use it without sudo
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> it will in real time check if  there is a container with bad sources.list and fix it on the fly
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> so when your old libertine container is instaled it will be detected and fixed in time
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> it will print message when it fixes the file
<tgBot> gouster4 was added by: gouster4
<tgBot> <milkor73> @gouster4, Hello Gouster 4 and welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    â¦ To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
<tgBot> <gouster4> Hi. :)
<tgBot> <Eelis59> Hello âï¸
<tgBot> j chen was added by: j chen
<tgBot> <peternerlich> Hello j and welcome! I'm part of the UBports welcoming team. â¦ To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
<tgBot> <j chen> thank youð
<tgBot> <Rawcode> Is it normal that my hammerhead can't connect to any network?
<tgBot> <Seumas> Thank you Kris but I managed in the end with Rodney's suggestions. Yay Libertine, lives up to it's name :) I'm asking the landlord to fix the home network via the ISP and hopefully that should help the MP5's dropouts. Still need to figure out why WiFi paswwords don't persist after reboot, though.
<tgBot> <Seumas> *passwords
<tgBot> <Javacookies> where can we install LIbertine in UBports? it's not available yet in Openstore right?
<tgBot> <Javacookies> I want to try desktop apps on my Nexus 5, I got plenty of space :D
<tgBot> <Ruben> @Javacookies, https://wiki.ubports.com/wiki/Libertine%3A-install-and-manage-desktop-applications
<tgBot> <Ruben> This is how I installed those desktop apps
<tgBot> <Seumas> This is the best guide I think:
<tgBot> <Seumas> (Photo, 1920x1080) https://irc.ubports.com/3HRvOk45/file_2879.jpg
<tgBot> <Javacookies> thanks for the links but this is how to use LIbertine and LIbretine isn't installed by default in Ubports
<tgBot> <Seumas> Forgive me for resorting to a screenshot, but I can't paste into Terminal on MP5 for some reason. Also don't worry about the site being blocked, it's because of my bus's WiFi network being silly and over-protective.
<tgBot> <Seumas> (Photo, 1920x1080) https://irc.ubports.com/HlyFrRj7/file_2881.jpg
<tgBot> <Seumas> This'll do it for ya, use a desktop/laptop to shell into the device and run it from there.
<tgBot> <malditobastardo> @Javacookies, If you rread the wiki   everything is explained there
<tgBot> <Seumas> Make sure the phablet is writable.
<tgBot> <Big ET> what is the supergroup for romanian speaking ubports?
<tgBot> <Javacookies> okay, I'll try those, thanks
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @Big ET, https://t.me/UBports_RO_ro
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @Rawcode, No?
<tgBot> <Stereofont> It stopped with an update?
<tgBot> <Rawcode> Nope, yesterday it worked fine I think. I just booted it up and nothing
<tgBot> <tylnesh> Is there a supergroup for Slovak speaking UBports users? Or am I the only one?
<tgBot> <tylnesh> Or is there a czech one? Slovaks get usually lumped in with that bunch :D
<tgBot> <Rawcode> @Rawcode, Nevermind it works now. I deleted my wifi  network
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @tylnesh, Chat with Milan
<tgBot> <Stereofont> (Sticker, 512x509) https://irc.ubports.com/F65FXLpM/file_2882
<tgBot> <milkor73> @tylnesh, Hi I notice only you , than Peter also from Slovakia and me Czech here There for I did not created any new our SG ð°
<tgBot> <tylnesh> no problem, I was just messiing around :)
<tgBot> <milkor73> And Peter has disappeared ð¤£
<tgBot> <Stereofont> If you create a group it may start to fill?
<tgBot> <milkor73> He translate all into Slovak in Weblate and since than I miss him
<tgBot> <tylnesh> It might be a better to create a CzechoSlovak group, so that we don't fragment it further
<tgBot> <milkor73> @Stereofont, Let us wait until OTA 3 is out
<tgBot> <olisax> D -6 ð
<tgBot> stuartlangridge was added by: stuartlangridge
<tgBot> <stuartlangridge> I've just tried flashing my Nexus 4, as per instructions at https://ubports.com/page/get-ubuntu-touch, and what I get is three flashing red circles on screen, like the world's saddest Knight Rider scrolling light. That seems like it's not what should happen. :)
<tgBot> <stuartlangridge> oh!
<tgBot> <stuartlangridge> that clearly is what was meant to happen. Now I've got an Ubuntu touch splash screen. Heh. Might wanna make that red circle screen more obviously mean "things are flashing" rather than "things are broken" :)
<tgBot> <peternerlich> Hello @stuartlangridge and welcome! I'm part of the UBports welcoming team. â¦ To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
<tgBot> <stuartlangridge> and it's flashed OK. :)
<tgBot> <peternerlich> Nice to hear!
<tgBot> <peternerlich> There is currently a more user friendly Installer in the works, requiring you to just push a button and then just do everything automatically. In its interface you would then get the appropriate feedback, until it finally says "everything done"
<tgBot> <stuartlangridge> right. TBH the experience was fine, except that three flashing circles do not say "everything is fine", they say "everything is broken" :) If that were some better indication that it was working but busy, I would have been perfectly happy :)
<tgBot> <vanyasem> @Lyokanthrope, i am the one who promised to test the 5x a month ago
<tgBot> <vanyasem> and I never did
<tgBot> <vanyasem> ð¤·ââ
<tgBot> <tylnesh> Anybody working on a bitwarden app for ubports?
<tgBot> <Stereofont> There is LastPass web app
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> @milkor73, Push notification and Czech supergroup will be released with OTA-3 ? ;)
<tgBot> A B was added by: A B
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> I C U, A
<tgBot> <milkor73> @A B, Hello A B and welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    â¦ To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
<tgBot> <stuartlangridge> @milkor73 what should I contact Florian about?
<tgBot> <A B> Hello together, maybe I'm at the wrong place. But I need some help to flash my BQ E4.5. I tried it several times   using the MDT as well as the system-image server. Both ended with the bq welcome screen after a 75% reboot after an successfull flash. Where can I get help?
<tgBot> <milkor73> @stuartlangridge, about the push server and Caxton app, he @Flohack may maybe help you or at least any feedback
<tgBot> <Hunter616> Hi, with Ubports version i can't send file with app Facebook Basic.
<tgBot> <milkor73> @A B, Welcome room there we will help you
<tgBot> <stuartlangridge> @milkor73, OK, cool. As far as I'm aware I should be able to just use https://push.ubports.com/notify  instead of push.ubuntu.com and that's all, right? Happy to hear thoughts on this from experts though :)
<tgBot> <dohbee> Yes
<tgBot> <dohbee> Or just be unconfined, and read the config file from disk
<tgBot> <stuartlangridge> No reason for Caxton to be unconfined :)
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @Seumas, great to hear
<tgBot> <Flohack> @stuartlangridge, Please contact me to get instructions how to move the push service
<tgBot> <Flohack> @stuartlangridge, Ok yes thats all ^^
<tgBot> <Flohack> no need to contact me then ð
<tgBot> <wagafo> Just a question on the new push server out of curiosity, and sorry if it is too obvious as I don't have a cue on how it works. It used to be the we needed an Ubuntu One account to get the notifications in Telegram. No account is needed for the Ubports push server to send us notifications?
<tgBot> <stuartlangridge> @Flohack, ð Just checking
<tgBot> <Flohack> @wagafo, Nothing changes, the Ubuntu One account is necessary on the phone client. While not used, we currently still need this
<tgBot> <Flohack> Later on we can discuss it but I gave an answer about this today already in terms of "Abuse protectioN" for our server. We need to make a small barrier of identification otherwise ppl will exploit it for bad things maybe
<tgBot> <wagafo> @Flohack, Thanks!
<tgBot> <Crash_Burn> @Flohack, Good to know... every time I launch Telegram it asks me to sign in.... guess I should do that now ;P
<tgBot> <Flohack> @Crash_Burn, Yes please ^^ otherwise push client is sleeping
<tgBot> <Flohack> Its funny they dont even use the token from U1 for anything
<tgBot> <Flohack> just checking if its there
<tgBot> <dohbee> @Flohack, It uses the token to request a push token from the server, which is then what gets sent to tg/whatever
<tgBot> <dohbee> "it" being ubuntu-push-client
<tgBot> <Flohack> @dohbee, But since the push server does not ask U1 if it is legit, you can just use anything as a token
<tgBot> <peternerlich> Anyone with deeper understanding or experience with devices not fully booting but getting stuck at the splash screen is invited to join the discussion in the welcome room
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> @Crash_Burn, Go figure.  this may need to be explained to newcomers.... And old comers:) very good to know ha
<tgBot> <Rawcode> Is there an application to use my bluetooth cardiometer?
<tgBot> <Rawcode> (Photo, 1080x1920) https://irc.ubports.com/vSs1PNpy/file_2886.jpg
<tgBot> <Rawcode> It's a video. Is that normal?
<tgBot> <milkor73> At the moment yes they are fixing open with UTmedia app for the moment
<tgBot> <Owen Roe> Does anyone know if the Dialer app supports SIP?
<tgBot> <Rawcode> @milkor73, Thanks :)
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @Rawcode, Looks like a codec problem
<tgBot> <milkor73> @Owen Roe, I saw SIP support only by the app: uMatriks mariogrip test
<tgBot> <Owen Roe> Okay, thanks.
<tgBot> <Stereofont> Fwd from Flohack: There is a SIP client initiative spinning up, we try to reuse linphone on the UT phone ;)
<tgBot> <olisax> @Stereofont, Wonderful ð
<tgBot> <Stereofont> No guarantees, no promises â¦
<tgBot> <cibersheep> @Owen Roe, We have started something. @bhdouglass have build and adpated linphone libs to work on the phone and I have to try to sink the rest. Not much time at the moment :( â¦ Buuuuut we will do someting about it â¦ https://t.me/joinchat/A2L4aw6g_RvP9GpYGos4LQ
<tgBot> <Owen Roe> Well that is very good to hear. :)
<tgBot> <DanChapman> @dohbee, it doesn't even do that ð it merely checks that a U1 account exists client side and prevents app registration if not. It uses `base64(/var/lib/dbus/machine-id + appid) as the registration token
<tgBot> <dohbee> @cibersheep, There's a branch on lp to add
<tgBot> <cibersheep> @dohbee, I don't understand
<tgBot> <dohbee> @cibersheep, there was work already happening to get SIP support on stock ubuntu phone. there are bzr branches on lp for it, and merge proposals, from when unity8 was canceled. i am not sure how complete they are, but it was moving along then
<tgBot> <dohbee> part of the new messaging-framework stuff that didn't quite land
<tgBot> <dohbee> @DanChapman, yeah, i'm having a little trouble following the golang server code. there may have been additional checks in front of the actual push server on push.u.c too. don't recall exactly
<tgBot> <cibersheep> @dohbee, Oh. I didn't know. That sounds promising
<tgBot> <cibersheep> @cibersheep, So why don't you join our telwhram group and share what you knwo?
<tgBot> <cibersheep> w?
<tgBot> <dohbee> ?
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> @Rawcode, This reminds me of how everything looked during my high school years...
<tgBot> <cibersheep> https://t.me/joinchat/A2L4aw6g_RvP9GpYGos4LQ
<tgBot> <dohbee> oh
<tgBot> <technicalbird> @wayneoutthere, You are too old @wayneoutthere
<tgBot> <Gerd SÃ¤nger> Last week(end) Florian Leeber told us that there was a meeting planned with some people from BQ. Anything worth or possible to mention about that contact?
<tgBot> <Crash_Burn> @Gerd SÃ¤nger, Shhh.... don't jinx it! ;)
<tgBot> <Xenial> Last devel image removed Ubuntu store. Feels nice
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> @technicalbird, no... it had to do with some chemicals in my body at the time....
<tgBot> <dohbee> @wayneoutthere, that'd be a lot of jolt cola
<tgBot> <milkor73> @Xenial, It is gone, yes and Openstore is default
<tgBot> <Rawcode> @wayneoutthere, Lol
<tgBot> <stuartlangridge> Is there some way I can run, on my Nexus 4, the "development" version of ubports so that I can test out the push client before OTA-3 comes out?
<tgBot> <dohbee> @stuartlangridge, you can presumably switch to the devel channel in settings, i guess
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> @stuartlangridge, Yep! Settings -> Update -> Update Settings
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> After switching, head back to the updates screen
<tgBot> <stuartlangridge> ah, it hadn't picked up the updates. Now I see them. I shall update.
<tgBot> <stuartlangridge> and, fabulous, Caxton now works. Didn't need to change the app at all. Hooray. Done, @bhdouglass ð
<tgBot> <stuartlangridge> and the "Share via Caxton" link on uappexplorer works, too.
<tgBot> <stuartlangridge> That's nice. So, if you want to be able to easily "push" app links from your desktop browser to your phone, install Caxton from the open app store, then sign in to uappexplorer and add a "Caxton code" in your settings (get this by pressing "get a code for an app" in the Caxton app on your phone). You can then, on a uappexplorer page, do Share > Send via Caxton, and the URL appears on your phone.
<tgBot> <dohbee> ð»
<tgBot> <stuartlangridge> @bhdouglass it ought to be possible to push the openstore:// URL via caxton, rather than the uappexplorer http url.
<tgBot> <stuartlangridge> If you're interested in pushing URLs (or any other info via IFTTT) to your phone via push notifications without having to write your own app to do it, have a look at https://caxton.herokuapp.com
<tgBot> <bhdouglass> @stuartlangridge, True I need to change this since the canonical store is being removed from the device
<tgBot> <stuartlangridge> yeah; I think pushing the direct openstore: URL would be fine; then tapping it in Caxton would open the open store.
<tgBot> <bhdouglass> Yeah that makes sense, a scope:// url is being sent now
<tgBot> <stuartlangridge> is there an equivalent of the defunct https://developer.ubuntu.com/apps/platform/guides/push-notifications-server-guide for ubports that I can link to?
<tgBot> <Flohack> @Gerd SÃ¤nger, I got live comments internally during speaking telling me I should not say too much. Last Week :) But I can say that yes we had this meeting and it was very productive
<tgBot> <Flohack> We have to work out the details but I think its OK to say that BQ still sees UT as an interesting platform for their devices and is open to cooperation and marketing with us
<tgBot> <DanChapman> @stuartlangridge, I don't think those docs have made it across to api-docs.ubports.com yet. Probably needs a "platform" section adding for it.
<tgBot> <samitormanen> Cool! Thumbs up for (possible) new devices.. ð
<tgBot> <DanChapman> @stuartlangridge there's still this for now though https://docs.ubuntu.com/phone/en/platform/guides/push-notifications-server-guide
<tgBot> <stuartlangridge> @DanChapman, no worries; it's just that the Caxton homepage links to them and they ain't there any more :) Not a problem; they're only needed if you're a developer, and you want to integrate Caxton, and you want to fill in tags. Almost everyone never needs to look at the upstream docs; Caxton is really simple, for a reason :)
<tgBot> <Gerd SÃ¤nger> Thank you, Florian, to shed a little light on parts of your meeting with BQ. Now I will remain patiently waiting what comes up next from that direction.
<tgBot> <Rawcode> what is bq?
<tgBot> <DanChapman> bq.com
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @Rawcode, They were a business partner of Canonical. They are based in Spain and design and sell a phone range
<tgBot> <DanChapman> wow didn't know you could still get refurbished m10's https://store.bq.com/en/aquaris-m10-fhd-ubuntu
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @DanChapman, I got one a couple if months back. Seemed new
<tgBot> <Stereofont> They have a wider range of clearance on their Spanish site
<tgBot> <DanChapman> ð awesome!
<tgBot> <Rawcode> @Stereofont, they sell very interesting devices
<tgBot> Andi_friede was added by: Andi_friede
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @Rawcode, +1
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @Andi_friede, Hello Andi and welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    â¦ To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
<tgBot> <Andi_friede> Wooohoooo....i got an oneplus one today...flashed ubuports in IT...great!!! So far i Had a bq e5 . â¦ On the oneplus the camera App zooming seems Not to Work. Anyone Made the Same experience?
<tgBot> <Rawcode> are they compatible with ubuntu touch?
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @Andi_friede, Congratulations! Cameras are complicated so in many cases there is still only basic functionality. With the new FP2 module there is no function at all at the moment ð
<tgBot> <Andi_friede> Ah okay! Well then WE have to wait a Bit until everything works.
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @Rawcode, Only the old 4.5 and E5. They have moved their range to Qualcomm chips though. We must hopeâ¦
<tgBot> <Rawcode> understand
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @Andi_friede, Yes. There are very few developers and I think no imaging specialists. What we have already is great though
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @Andi_friede, German speaker perhaps?
<tgBot> <Andi_friede> Haha...japp you really got me :)
<tgBot> <Stereofont> There is a German language group fir UBports. See in the News Channel link
<tgBot> <Stereofont> You are welcome in both obviously
<tgBot> <Andi_friede> Ah okay. Thanks a Lot for the hint!
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> Almost 1050 in here.... go figure....   now, if just 10% of us did 30 minutes of work per day on UBports to develop, spread and build relationships, that would be 3150 hours of productivity per day or 131 hours per day.  So, for all of us who have said 'I need more than 24 hours in my day" now we know how! Let's DOOOO THIIS!
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> (Document) https://irc.ubports.com/FF6BYrCv/file_2887.mp4
<tgBot> <dohbee> rome wasn't burned in a day though, even with 3150 man-hours of people working on it
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> did you say burned?
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> that was awesome.
<tgBot> <Rawcode> AHAHAHAH
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> it will take more than a day to burn UBPORTS!!!!!
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> (Document) https://irc.ubports.com/Fjdzq6fU/file_2887.mp4
<tgBot> <Rawcode> lol
<tgBot> <vanyasem> @wayneoutthere, are you telling me to open an another can of monster
<tgBot> <milkor73> @Flohack, Nice ð, Thanks Florian for this Feedback
<tgBot> <PacoIgnazioTaiboII> @Flohack, ð
<tgBot> <PhoenixLandPirate> @vanyasem, Ni
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> @Flohack, thanks for focusing on that, Florian.  Keep up the momentum since this will be most excellent to have a few manufacturers who will gain with our growth and development
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> @vanyasem, yes
<tgBot> <vanyasem> huh. opinions split
<tgBot> <PhoenixLandPirate> @Flohack, Woop woop
<tgBot> <retro486> Is there a halium telegram or group to ask for help? I've got my nexus 4 booting into telnet but it doesn't seem to be loading the rootfs and so no ssh (and the chroot instructions on the halium docs page is complaining about missing bash/sh)
<tgBot> <dohbee> i think so but i don't recall what it is
<tgBot> <PhoenixLandPirate> @retro486, Yeah idk what the telegram link is, but if you use Matrix or IRC I could tell you how to reach it via them
<tgBot> <retro486> Yeah I can use IRC
<tgBot> <retro486> I'm guessing it's #halium? :)
<tgBot> <PhoenixLandPirate> Yup
<tgBot> <retro486> *sigh* Didn't read step 1 either: https://docs.halium.org/en/latest/porting/first-steps.html
<tgBot> <retro486> Says right there how to get in touch. :) Thanks!
<tgBot> <Seumas> Good news folks: cut my Micro SIM down to Nano size and seems to work fine on my Pro 5. Albeit I've seen a behaviour where the H symbol goes blank and goes back and forth between blank and visible quite often. The net connection seems to maintain even during blank moments. So I take it this is both expected and benign behavior?
<tgBot> <dohbee> i wouldn't say that it's expected behavior, but no idea what's really going on there with the pro5
<tgBot> <Seumas> Now I'm back on a 4G connection (despite sitting down and being completely stationary, go figure my sofa out) and that behavior isn't observed. Whatever, the telephony behaves as expected so far apart from that minor oddity.
<tgBot> <Flohack> We pushed RC now in spite of the upcoming OTA release. RC users can update ^^
<tgBot> <Rawcode> i'm doing it right now :)
<tgBot> kz6fittycent was added by: kz6fittycent
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> (Document) https://irc.ubports.com/kFeunx0U/file_2888.mp4
<tgBot> <kz6fittycent> lol
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> Welcome team, this guy has been here before, stand down
<tgBot> <kz6fittycent> haha
<tgBot> <kz6fittycent> (Document) https://irc.ubports.com/e6BDCWxd/file_2889.mp4
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> (Document) https://irc.ubports.com/VqCOmLqx/file_2890.mp4
<tgBot> <kz6fittycent> (Document) https://irc.ubports.com/SINOCZcQ/file_2891.mp4
<tgBot> <Rawcode> I don't know why, but I can't see your photos
<tgBot> <ebetonro> omg is gif warr here ... take cover
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @Rawcode, Gifs not supported
<tgBot> <Rawcode> @Stereofont, Thanks Lione :)
<tgBot> <Seumas> Does anyone know where the app data for (Facebook) Messenger is on a device? It's the one made by Electronome inc.
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> Booya, NICK!  BOOYA!  Welcome back my canadian brother from another mother!  Let's DOOOO THIS!!!!
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> 10 cups of coffee today and I'm FEEEEEEELING IT!!!!!
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> where is my microphone????
<tgBot> <ebetonro> @wayneoutthere, do not look at me
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> @ebetonro, It's FREE T-SHIRT MAN!  Are you romanian?  Do you live in Romania?  Call @ebetonro for your free t-shirt NOW!!!!
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> (Document) https://irc.ubports.com/CIYm1is8/file_2892.mp4
<tgBot> <ebetonro> @wayneoutthere, I will let my dog to eat your mike
<tgBot> <ebetonro> and keyboard
<tgBot> <ebetonro> and now I really need to sleep see you all around
#ubports 2017-12-16
<Sander^home> Hi, Just got an update to e4.5, nice! but all the phonelogs got deleted, just like any reboot:(
<tgBot> <Seumas> Also does mobile data hotspot not work for turbo yet?
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> @UniversalSuperBox, That's right.  Americans and Canadians are excluded from the deal.  It has something to do with 'net neutrality' i heard
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> @wayneoutthere, Oh boy, you really don't like to keep the peace do you?
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> Sure I do. â¦ A Peace of Pizza â¦ BOOOOOM!
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> 11th cup of coffee people. I"M BREAKIN' RECORDS HERE!!!!!
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> (Photo, 1093x747) https://irc.ubports.com/URotIeGt/file_2894.jpg this is what I see
<tgBot> <kz6fittycent> lol
<tgBot> Ismaelbonato was added by: Ismaelbonato
<tgBot> SilentSt0rm was added by: SilentSt0rm
<tgBot> <SilentSt0rm> Hi! )
<tgBot> <SilentSt0rm> Tell me please, is it possible install gnome or xfce on ubuntu touch?
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> (Document) https://irc.ubports.com/frWMaS0l/file_2895.mp4
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> @SilentSt0rm, No, the whole stack is tightly integrated to work with Unity 8
<tgBot> <SilentSt0rm> What about xmir?
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> You're certainly free to try, but I don't know how you'd do it
<tgBot> <SilentSt0rm> I do not know either. But I've seen a video on YouTube where MUTE 1.8 on Ubuntu touch is being bullied.
<tgBot> <SilentSt0rm> *MATE  â¦ ** is being runned
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> Hello Ismael and EbreHNN and welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    â¦ To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
<tgBot> <Javacookies> desktop apps doesn't really work on Nexus 5? I saw a bug about this but I think it's early this year since the last update
<tgBot> <Javacookies> it's sad :(
<tgBot> <alan_griffiths> @Javacookies, Desktop apps don't really work on Ubuntu Touch regardless of the phone. It is possible to get them to run using libertine and xmir, but there are too many issues to say they "really work". â¦ But things don't have to stay that way and likely won't: https://forums.ubports.com/topic/795/running-desktop-applications-on-ubports-x11-wayland-mir-and-toolkits
<tgBot> <Javacookies> yes, I was able to install libertine, create containers and install apps, it worked on my Nexus 7 way before
<tgBot> <alan_griffiths> @SilentSt0rm, Xmir isn't enough to support a full desktop environment, there are too many pieces missing. (And even if those gaps were fixed I doubt you would get a good experience usiing gnome or xfce on a phone.) â¦ Maybe you're asking the wrong question: what would gnome or xfce allow you to do that Unity8 doesn't?
<tgBot> <SilentSt0rm> @alan_griffiths, I meant deleting mir and installing x11 and gnome or xfce for support desktop apps.
<tgBot> <popescu_sorin> weee the m10 with ota2 works okish on HDMI
<tgBot> <popescu_sorin> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wImj5A2sI6E
<tgBot> <SilentSt0rm> Because there are very few applications for Ubuntu Touch. But as a very small PC - it would be excellent.
<tgBot> <popescu_sorin> the browser starts, used to crash before
<tgBot> <popescu_sorin> there are some bugs here and there, the image doesn't fit quite right, and the image quality is a bit low
<tgBot> <popescu_sorin> also when you first run them apps they open at a wrong size (really small)
<tgBot> <SilentSt0rm> Anybody know how to use mjpg-stream or alternative software for streaming from camera?
<tgBot> <popescu_sorin> there are also some other weird stuff, if you connect a mouse on bluetooth, the keyboard doesn't show up anymore
<tgBot> <SilentSt0rm> all I tried was swearing for missing /dev/video0
<tgBot> <popescu_sorin> ah and i had to connect 3 times to hdmi to work  (plug/unplug), crashed unity8 1 time, second time "not accepted" or something message on the tv
<tgBot> <sverzegnassi> Throwing the famous two cents. The hope, as a user, is that we wonât need stuff like Libertine in the future. â¦ Thatâd mean that those universal packaging formats can fulfill the requirements of a mobile distribution. But that time does not seem to be here yet
<tgBot> <popescu_sorin> in 18.04 gtk2 is beeing removed from the base install
<tgBot> <popescu_sorin> :D that's great
<tgBot> <popescu_sorin> gtk3/qt5 can wayland/mir, so as long the apps don't use x11 they should be able to run without xmir/xwayland
<tgBot> <popescu_sorin> i think
<tgBot> <popescu_sorin> i see in :wayland  in snap interfaces
<tgBot> <popescu_sorin> this means... you can run a snap that uses wayland?
<tgBot> <popescu_sorin> so.. we need like snaps? and then we need the latest mir (so we can run wayland clients)
<tgBot> <popescu_sorin> and then if you make a snap with gnome-calculator.. should just run?
<tgBot> <popescu_sorin> don't know :)))
<tgBot> <popescu_sorin> But first we need to move to 16.04
<tgBot> <Seumas> I absolutely want desktop app functionality to remain with Ubuntu Touch forever. Choice is cool.
<tgBot> <alan_griffiths> @popescu_sorin, That's the theory. We should have it working in practice shortly (teething troubles).
<tgBot> <alan_griffiths> @SilentSt0rm, Start with hallium and build your own stack - it will be easier.
<tgBot> <Seumas> Anyone got advice on the Pro 5 hotspot problem? I require that to run my M10 or indeed any networked portable device with internet in certain areas e.g. work where there's no WiFi.
<tgBot> <Ben> Hey everyone :)
<tgBot> AbouWassim31 was added by: AbouWassim31
<tgBot> <milkor73> @AbouWassim31, Hello Ab W and welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    â¦ To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
<tgBot> <vanyasem> @SilentSt0rm, Ð¾, ÐÐµÐ»ÐºÐ¾Ð¼ )
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @SilentSt0rm, yes you can but perhaps not in the way ypunimagine.
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> you can install pretty much any desktip and run graphical session in xvfb and access it via vnc, for example.
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @Javacookies, i use nexus5 and i run plenty of x apps on that phone. i wonder what do you mean that x apps dont work on it?
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @SilentSt0rm, you do not need to do that to run legacy apps.
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @SilentSt0rm, UT device is a PCm think about it, PC os just a box and u need ro connect 3 things to it bwfore u jave a desktop: â¦ 1. monitor â¦ 2. keyboard â¦ 3. mouse â¦ this is what i also do with UT phone and thus for me my ut is a pocket size computer and i run desktop appsnoff of it.
<tgBot> <mixmoto> Hi all. I want to ask if anyother haven't got mobile data working in the last devel on n5
<tgBot> kutlay1653 was added by: kutlay1653
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @mixmoto, Another reported that last night. Stable works
<tgBot> <milkor73> @kutlay1653, Hello Kutlay and welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    â¦ To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @Stereofont, There is some strange date behaviour too
<tgBot> <mixmoto> @Stereofont, Is its a problem from last days on devel. Thanks
<tgBot> <milkor73> Confirm, not working on devel N5
<tgBot> <Stereofont> (Sticker, 512x512) https://irc.ubports.com/AWIsehiE/file_2896
<tgBot> <Stereofont> Bug
<tgBot> <Seumas> Is my problem just a MP5 hardware issue?
<tgBot> <Seumas> http://forum.flymeos.com/thread-1951-1-1.html
<tgBot> <Seumas> Affects Flyme too. But different behavior described there.
<tgBot> <Rawcode> @Stereofont, last rc works too in n5
<tgBot> <Seumas> Pretty obvious, but I have an SD card in the dual-purpose SIM slot and my cut-down Nano SIM in the other one. If that helps diagnosing this issue.
<tgBot> <Seumas> Posts #15,16 are possibly relevant, but they discuss using dual SIMs rather than a SIM and a card, so who knows.
<tgBot> <developerfect> @milkor73, Turkish Group Members are growing rapidly
<tgBot> <kutlay1653> Sorry
<tgBot> <Flohack> @milkor73, Do we have a bug for this?
<tgBot> <milkor73> I will check it
<tgBot> <milkor73> I have new feedback regarding Data on N5 devel
<tgBot> <milkor73> I have switched back to stable and now back to devel: and....
<tgBot> <milkor73> I have 4G connection, everything working!!!
<tgBot> <Rawcode> this is strange
<tgBot> <milkor73> Latest devel I have is 259
<tgBot> <milkor73> @Rawcode, Can you try also?
<tgBot> <Rawcode> @milkor73, yesterday i had this issue. i switched back to stable and the to the last rc and it works now
<tgBot> <milkor73> From devel?
<tgBot> <Rawcode> yep
<tgBot> <milkor73> Stefano is writing
<tgBot> <Rawcode> slowly
<tgBot> <milkor73> It is going to be long
<tgBot> <milkor73> He always knows what where!!!
<tgBot> <lduboeuf> hey all, noticed on my webapp, that javascript alerts or confirm box are not displayed. is it a normal feature ?
<tgBot> <DanChapman> What type of webapp is it? does it just use the `webapp-container` command? Or is it generated using the webappcreator app?
<tgBot> <lduboeuf> i used alternate-webapp-creator
<tgBot> <lduboeuf> qmlscene %u qml/Main.qml
<tgBot> <DanChapman> I think that uses a raw oxide webview so you don't get the alert popups. It needs to use an Ubuntu.Web webview for that
<tgBot> <lduboeuf> ok, maybe `webapp-container` would be enough ? my webapps need access to a third part website for authentification (oauth)
<tgBot> <DanChapman> I think the webapp creator fixes these issues https://open.uappexplorer.com/app/webapp-creator.jujuyeh
<tgBot> <lduboeuf> i tried with webapp-container in the past but did not work by default
<tgBot> <lduboeuf> i will try it, but doing this on my tiny device is not very easy
<tgBot> <sverzegnassi> @popescu_sorin, Yeah, but which level of integration can we reach by installing standard desktop apps on the phone? Ã¢â¬Â¦ LetÃ¢â¬â¢s say LibreOffice or Firefox are running on phone - UI scaling issue apart - how their file dialog would integrate with the system? Afaik, Flatpak portals can use whatever file dialog is default on the platform, but snaps have no such ability. Snaps can be used for packaging CLI tools, but Flatpak apparently does not. Ã¢â¬
<tgBot> we expect from desktop apps on a phone? Should we support Flatpak, or Snaps? And in case, would we need a curated store? Keep or remove Clicks, or would we prefer to use e.g. .deb+overlayroot as a fallback? â¦ Universal packaging formats will probably be the central topic next year, and both Snap and Flatpak are not that ready yet (although they're usable)
<tgBot> <ahayzen> @sverzegnassi, Btw snaps look likely to use xdg-desktop-portal (https://github.com/flatpak/xdg-desktop-portal/pull/136) and flatpak can be used for command line utils it just isn't their main focus (https://github.com/flatpak/flatpak/issues/1188)
<tgBot> MassimoPeca was added by: MassimoPeca
<tgBot> <Seumas> Friends, is anyone going to address my questions?
<tgBot> <malditobastardo> @milkor73, Wow. I am glad that I didn't update yet
<tgBot> <milkor73> @MassimoPeca, Hello Massimo and welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    â¦ To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
<tgBot> <milkor73> @malditobastardo, More courage MD ð
<tgBot> <dohbee> @SilentSt0rm, If what you want is a pocket PC, I would suggest staying very far away from Android devices.
<tgBot> <lduboeuf> @DanChapman, oups forgot, thanks for it
<tgBot> <balcy> zanetti
<tgBot> <malditobastardo> @milkor73, ð¹ð¹ð¹
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> @developerfect, Good. :) thanks for all your work over there
<tgBot> <dohbee> @sverzegnassi, Libertine is needed still. It does more than just provide a chroot to install debs into. Even for running x11 apps from snaps, we still need other parts of libertine to connect all of the dots between mir and x11.
<tgBot> <sverzegnassi> @ahayzen, Yeah, I saw it some months ago, when it was just an early prototype. Cool to see that xdg portals might have a future in Snaps too. â¦ Instead, the CLI tools support in Flatpak seems indeed very partial and far from the common expectation of a âdesktop experienceâ. â¦ But what I really wanted to say is that we should actually define what that âdesktop experienceâ is, because itâs going to change in the following years
<tgBot> <dohbee> Step 1) Stop using the word "desktop"
<tgBot> <dohbee> it has no useful meaning
<tgBot> <dohbee> (please also use the send button in telegram more often, rather than writing long multiline/multi-paragraph posts all together)
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> Well others have asked for longer posts from people in the past rather than bullet posts
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> The idea should be this: If you present and idea (IE a numbered list) in here you should press send after each one so that each idea can be replied to
<tgBot> <dohbee> well others are wrong. telegram isn't a web forum, replying to very long posts with multiple separate pieces of commentary is very difficult in telegram, let alone if you're on irc (or maybe matrix, no idea how riot/etc deal with it)
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> So if you are talking about your coffee and don't expect a reply, then keep it as one long post but if there are multiple ideas then separate them to allow for reply feature
<tgBot> <alan_griffiths> This is not the medium for in depth discussions. Instead of a long post on telegram, put it on a blog/forum and post a summary and link.
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> @dohbee, This is very interesting topic....  to me desktop means: Non phone size, non tablet, fairly big, but is combined with laptop since their power and hardware are same or similar
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> Thats a solid idea
<tgBot> <dohbee> @wayneoutthere, What most people mean is "x86 general purpose PC" which is still a bit wrong. sometimes people also mean "background icons/wallpaper"
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> But very hard to execute. Thats why I made some Labs
<tgBot> <sverzegnassi> @dohbee, Wasnât Ubuntu-app-launch supposed to handle snapâd Xmir apps? Just wondering...
<tgBot> <dohbee> it has no solid meaning as in "this is desktop and nothing else is"
<tgBot> <dohbee> @sverzegnassi, it does, with the help of libertine's tools, yes
<tgBot> <dohbee> or well, sort of does, that work was never finished
<tgBot> <dohbee> @wayneoutthere, well, it's an easy idea to execute. it's hard to get others to follo suit. i've been "executing" it for over a decade :)
<tgBot> <dohbee> and then there's the whole "PC == Windows" trope
<tgBot> <sverzegnassi> @dohbee, Yeah, thatâs what I mean. My question was indeed âwhat do we expect from launching desktop apps on a phoneâ, since Iâm not sure that running a regular LibreOffice instance is what I would really need on a phone.
<tgBot> <dohbee> @sverzegnassi, Well in "phone mode" probably not what you want, but in "i plugged into a 23in monitor with kb/mouse mode" maybe it is
<tgBot> <dohbee> but "legacy" is a far better term for things like current libreoffice i think
<tgBot> <dohbee> they are not scalable/responsive apps
<tgBot> <dohbee> they follow legacy design principles and methodologies
<tgBot> <Michele> @DanChapman yesterday I deleted the `.cache` folder on my phone because it was getting too big, but now I opened Dekko 2 and it asks me for configuring an account because there are no account set up... does Dekko 2 stores its config in the cache folder?
<tgBot> <alan_griffiths> Well, there are "legacy" applications from "phone" as well as "desktop".
<tgBot> <dohbee> there are no "desktop" applications
<tgBot> <dohbee> because "desktop" is a meaningless word
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @wayneoutthere, desktop means on the top of your desk. monitor, keyboards. mouse. But when i see posts here like "desktop apps" it is totally ambiguous.  â¦ Anyways, UT is a phone with Mir and all that stuff but ALSO it is an aem based Ubuntu computer. It already is posaible to run on it anything that is compiled forbarm linux (off course dependencies must be met). There are more ways than one to run non native (mir) apps: â¦ 1. Xmir is one w
<tgBot> or without libertine/containers).  â¦ 2.ssh wirh x forwarding (wireless or over usb) is another amazing and practical way. but UT was not exploring it and now it still isn't but things get easier. Phablet-shell however does not include x forwarding even though it is more useful with. â¦ 3. hou can start anything in xvfb inluding an entire graphical session with your favorite wm. Be it xfce, lxde, Mate or sth else. Then hou can access ir via vnc or things li
<tgBot> like that. â¦ 4. if get any qt5 vnc client to work natively on mor you get a whole new frontier and alternative to xmir â¦ there are other ways as well. â¦ The possibilities are really endless you juat need to do one thing to see this: UT phone/tablet is a normal Ubuntu computer. Yes it has mir and all that, but still.
<tgBot> <dohbee> (Sticker, 336x512) https://irc.ubports.com/3jhPPuOB/file_2897
<tgBot> <Flohack> @stuartlangridge, Hi, got this in the logs:  DEBUG notify: caxton.sil_Caxton HnEx81tv8Isk9hO9hfp+Wg== unauthorized
<tgBot> <dohbee> doh ubports forum gives a 502
<tgBot> <Flohack> dont worry its being upgraded right now
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> and IMHO the line of arguments about apps being dedicated to smartphone scenario (aspect ratio, touc, screen size, etc) are blown out of proportion.  â¦ Legacy apps do not need to be run on the phone's screen. They can run off the phone onto a big screen. And this scenario is crazy practical.
<tgBot> <dohbee> @KrisJacewicz, what is practical for you is not practical for everyone, nor is it reasonable for most everyone
<tgBot> <Flohack> @Seumas, Probably better post on the forum. We do not have so many Pro 5 owners here and your questions will get lost
<tgBot> <dohbee> and please split up posts like that in the future @KrisJacewicz
<tgBot> <alan_griffiths> Yes, making it seamless instead of "crazy practical" is the "convergence" vision. It will come one way or another.
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @dohbee, wondering, seems like you could be trying to tell that exact thong to yourself. I am happy with everyone deciding on their own. Hou seem to tell us what is good as what is not. Like telling us that those of us who think otherwise about splitting or not splitting messages here are wrong. â¦ Off course I speak of myself.
<tgBot> <alan_griffiths> https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png
<tgBot> <sverzegnassi> @dohbee, Thatâs was the point. I concern on usability, and which are the limits on what we should (or reasonably could) offer. For me it would be legit to have a small selection of legacy apps to choose from, but others may want more by default
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> ultimately i don't spwnd my days worrying whether or not anhone else will agree with me or not. Some will, some won't. UT doesn't limit you. You limit yourself.
<tgBot> <dohbee> @KrisJacewicz, well you build a phone that boots up straight to a terminal and deal with supporting it if anyone actually buys such a device
<tgBot> <dohbee> @KrisJacewicz, no, i don't care what your choice of breaking your device is. break it all you want. what i care about is the default user experience and making things easy AND secure by default, for everyone
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @sverzegnassi, subjectively, i am quite happy with the "defaults". Only thing I notice is that the defaults don't faciliate some aspects. But even then the current default system is quite good as far as im concerned.
<tgBot> <dohbee> that's an odd statement from someone who advocates remounting / as rw, installing debs and compiling things on device, and creating symlink farms to avoid filling up /, etcâ¦
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @dohbee, and i actually see your concern valid and valuable. â¦ Nust that whenever there is a peraon who is interested in goung outside of your perfect scenario I wish they can go past you to see that they can do many things easilly as well.
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> i really don't see anything wrong with the UT defaulting to how you see it. I support it. I just don't agree that anything else is discouraged.
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> or considered wrong/bad.
<tgBot> <dohbee> @KrisJacewicz, nobody is "discouraging" you, so please stop taking personal offense whenever people in here are talking about building ubports (the topic of this channel)
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @dohbee, you discourage others every once in a while when you say that certain things ahould not or cannot be done.
<tgBot> Ilya Zhukov was added by: Ilya Zhukov
<tgBot> <dohbee> the only thing i am discouraging you from, is telling people who come in here with problems having just flashed there device, to do all the "crazy practical" things you have chosen to do, as some means to try and resolve their problems
<tgBot> <vanyasem> @Ilya Zhukov, Ð²ÐµÐ»ÐºÐ¾Ð¼
<tgBot> <dohbee> all you do with such suggestions is create confusion and cause even more problems for them
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @dohbee, i take this critique
<tgBot> <dohbee> @KrisJacewicz, i am pretty sure i very rarely say something "cannot" be done.
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @dohbee, i also help out many of them. you dont know because people reach out to me in PM. and I follow up outside of this main discussion.
<tgBot> <dohbee> when i say something "should not" be done, it is because i have a whole hell of a lot of experience in the area
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @dohbee, yes rarely you do.
<tgBot> <dohbee> and if i say something cannot be done, it is almost certainly because it cannot be done
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @dohbee, i guess you have a LOT of experience but that doesnt mean you know better.
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> Not always, but generally we defer to those with more experience
<tgBot> <dohbee> @KrisJacewicz, you should not shoot yourself in the foot, but if you really want to shoot yourself in the foot, feel free
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> Otherwise we make the same mistakes multiple times
<tgBot> <dohbee> if you have a gun, go for it. but i'm not going to be the one handing you the loaded gun to shoot yourself in the foot with
<tgBot> <Ilya Zhukov> @vanyasem Ð¡Ð¿Ð°ÑÐ¸Ð±Ð¾. Ð¡ÑÐ°Ñ Ð²ÑÐµÐ³Ð´Ð° ÑÑÑ?
<tgBot> <vanyasem> @Ilya Zhukov, welp, not really. but happens from time to time
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @UniversalSuperBox, that sometimes doesnt end up as a smart choice. I recommend you to look up "Authority Bias". For example as explained by Rolf Dobelli.
<tgBot> <Ilya Zhukov> @KrisJacewicz, I'm just in time. ))
<tgBot> <vanyasem> hey, could you please stop your rant?
<tgBot> <Ilya Zhukov> Not for you. Sorry.
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @dohbee, i dont know what you mean
<tgBot> <vanyasem> @vanyasem, we have a new member here, and we're not making a good first impression
<tgBot> <vanyasem> if you really want to continue, do so in our OT group, this is not going anywhere anyways
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @vanyasem, to be honest it is nut a peraonal rant. Its an exchange of opinions. aka discusaion.
<tgBot> <vanyasem> @KrisJacewicz, Ilya just asked me in Russian if this group is always like that. no one enjoys this discussion.
<tgBot> <vanyasem> stop.
<tgBot> <alan_griffiths> When answering about "can" or "should" assume that the questioner doesn't want to risk breaking the hardware or basic behaviour. I'm sure a lot of "impossible" things can be done by replacing some or all of the hardware. At the very least provide a cavat before remounting rw or resoldering the parts.
<tgBot> <Ilya Zhukov> I don't care about this discussion.
<tgBot> <dohbee> then don't participate in it?
<tgBot> <dohbee> discuss something else if you wish
<tgBot> <Ilya Zhukov> But it's funny.
<tgBot> <vanyasem> do you have a device running UBports? Ilya
<tgBot> <dohbee> frankly, "the best way to provide support to users of ubports" seems pretty well on topic for a channel about ubports
<tgBot> <DanChapman> @Michele, That's intended as you can't just go and delete the cache without wiping the mailstore database as well. otherwise it will remain in a broken state.
<tgBot> <vanyasem> @dohbee, you won't give up your opinion. never.
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> perhaps there is a better way, do you guys think that it would be a good idea to set up additional group dedicated to all the non standard things about UT?
<tgBot> <vanyasem> @vanyasem, so it's not a worthy discuss. you just assume you are always right
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> perhaps we could then keep the standard topic here and non standard separately
<tgBot> <vanyasem> @KrisJacewicz, I support your idea
<tgBot> <dohbee> @vanyasem, lol, that's funny coming from you.
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @dohbee, that is because you have a big missunderstamding for what i say and think since the beginning
<tgBot> <vanyasem> @dohbee, is that because I care for freedom and you don't?
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @KrisJacewicz, i guess i replied to sth you were not saying to me
<tgBot> <vanyasem> @KrisJacewicz, yep ;)
<tgBot> <dohbee> it is because you seem to think you're always right, and you are unable to have a logical discussion, instead resorting to personal attacks as you have just done.
<tgBot> <Ilya Zhukov> @vanyasem, Hmmm... I have Nexus 5 with Ubuntu Touch on board. Is this mean something?
<tgBot> <vanyasem> @Ilya Zhukov, old Ubuntu Touch or UBports?
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> anyways i wonder if you guys consoder my odea of making a branchex and dedicated group
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> or not?
<tgBot> <vanyasem> I support it
<tgBot> <vanyasem> go ahead
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> it is possib sound like that whe
<tgBot> <vanyasem> uh
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> sorry my kbd froze. i want to
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> suggest that there still be a place to openly talk all the non standard aspects
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> and approaches
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> for those who wish to
<tgBot> <dohbee> @KrisJacewicz, i don't think so, but it is quite difficult to help people when you suggest doing very invasive things to their devices while i'm trying to help discover the real problem, for example
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> and so i ask if here is good place or maybe there should be a separate place for that.
<tgBot> <Ilya Zhukov> Port, ofcouse.
<tgBot> <dohbee> or when i say things you for some reason disagree with, and seem to take extreme personal offense to, despite them having nothing to do with you
<tgBot> <Ilya Zhukov> Ð Ð°Ð·Ð²Ðµ Ð¾ÑÐ¸Ð³Ð¸Ð½Ð°Ð»ÑÐ½Ð°Ñ UT Ð±ÑÐ»Ð° Ð½Ð° Nexus?
<tgBot> <dohbee> there is a separate russian group no?
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @dohbee, so now i would like to try to come up with somethi g betyer
<tgBot> <dohbee> if you want to speak russian, that is
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @dohbee, i can't unfortunately, but also I think in English it would have a broaded audience
<tgBot> <dohbee> @KrisJacewicz, for the record, i have no problem with "open discussion" of such things here. i however do not consider it being a response to people asking for general support, to be "open discussion"
<tgBot> <dohbee> if people ask how to do those things, then sure
<tgBot> <Ilya Zhukov> @dohbee, It was quickly, that my English post.
<tgBot> <vanyasem> @dohbee, answered him in PM
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @KrisJacewicz, i didnt see it again. â¦ I appologise my telegram is not as fast as yours guys because im firewalled in China
<tgBot> <vanyasem> @vanyasem, Russian group is shitty btw
<tgBot> <alan_griffiths> @KrisJacewicz, I don't think it is needed. But I'd be interested. (What you are doing is interesting for the possibilities it opens, but not something that should be offered as a solution unless the questioner is /very clearly/ open to an invasive solution.)
<tgBot> <dohbee> but if someone is asking for help with basic issues in libertine, or "is whatsapp available" or such, i don't think your suggestions are helpful
<tgBot> <dohbee> sometimes super invasive solutions are necessary, but that is rare
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @dohbee, yes so I am now wondering to myself how to address this
<tgBot> <dohbee> and the things you are doing @KrisJacewicz are interesting, but it is super invasive on the system, and not for everyone. and you seem to get super offended when anyone asks you to be a bit more thoughtful about considering others when you make suggestions or long posts
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> @vanyasem, maybe it needs more less poopy people in it?  Typically groups are poopy because of the poopy people
<tgBot> <vanyasem> @wayneoutthere, I left it, so you can't complain now
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> For example, in some groups two adults will use a supergroup of over 1000 people audience to discuss their styles when they could just use the PM feature.
<tgBot> <vanyasem> @vanyasem, it's your turn now, isn't it?
<tgBot> <dohbee> @KrisJacewicz, i have been trying to help you understand that, but you seem to get very offended by it for some reason
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> @vanyasem, wow there are a lot of caustic people around today!  is there some bad coffee in town?
<tgBot> <dohbee> @wayneoutthere, Are off-handed remarks like this part of the new AP style guide?
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> @vanyasem, just so you know, Ivan, the purpose of my comment was actually to encourage the members to go and find more good people so the bad ones get drowned out  But you interpreted it differently
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @dohbee, its not easy for me to be objective about myself so I did let this critique sink in for a moment. â¦ I also dont want to force these "other" approaches onto people who are happy with the normal standard scenarios. I am however interested in ezploring theae and share as well. So maybe sharing in a dedicated group could be better. these suggestions would only be seen by people who volontarily subscribwd to them.
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> @dohbee and @KrisJacewicz take it elsewhere, please.  we all agree and disagree with everything you say however, it's better in a lab
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> then those interested can join
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> i am, by the way, interested in joining a heated discussion about Desktop"
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> But i thoroughly doubt others are
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> i am sure many of you understand this inner urgence to share your work out. Well i feel it. At the same time i dont want to share where it seems out of place or intrusive.
<tgBot> <alan_griffiths> @KrisJacewicz maybe "Don't try this at home" forum topic would be a better place to explore the "cool stuff"?
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> @alan_griffiths, exactly
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> a focus group
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @alan_griffiths, yes maybe in deed
<tgBot> <dohbee> so what exactly is the purpose of this channel if not to discuss things relating to ubports? just to welcome people?
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> that's a valid question.
<tgBot> <dohbee> maybe there should be a "welcome channel" instead that people are first sent to join rather than this one, and then it can be happy and just welcome messages and hugs or whatever
<tgBot> <Rawcode> guys there is a way to enable spacebar vibration?
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> well, we know what it is *not* but we are working also on what it 'is'.
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> @Rawcode, this is example of what it *is*
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> i also admit i dont know what does and what does not follow under this channel purpose at times. It is the only such channel I know where I share because of not knowing a more suitable one
<tgBot> <dohbee> @Rawcode, should work if feedback is enabled in settings, same as when you press any other key, iirc
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> @KrisJacewicz, fair. this is an issue.  we know.  The main issue is that we don't have perfectly clear goals. however, allow me to speak my mind
<tgBot> <dohbee> @wayneoutthere, i will say that more channels == bad, in my experience, especially for smaller projects like this is
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> Kris - you are skilled developer.  Many people like what you have to say.  However, you are working towards goals that may not be lined up with the group's goals.  This might be because the goals are not clear.  Let me ask you a straight question:
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> If I asked you to develop something that was in the group's interest, would you do it?
<tgBot> <alan_griffiths> @wayneoutthere, I think that uncalled for. Both are talking about the meta-topic of how to make this list effective, That's on-topic.
<tgBot> <Rawcode> @dohbee, yes, feedback is enabled. the other keys vibrate, only the spacebar doesn't
<tgBot> <Rawcode> @Rawcode, i'm in the last RC
<tgBot> Denis D was added by: Denis D
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> and Rodney - your points are great but for some reason they ignite rants.  I don't think this is your plan, but it happens.
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @alan_griffiths, and also on the 2nd thought forum and chat group are differently useful. I suddently (after reflecting upon it) don't think that forum would be a satisfactory substitute to a chat group. Even if on its own it is interesting.
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> I have the same skill set.  I speak straight and people don't like it.
<tgBot> <dohbee> @wayneoutthere, mostly it seems to be useful discussion. a rant would be more one sided with someone just spewing useless drivel constantly
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @wayneoutthere, i am not sure that this is his fault. also i am not sure rhat rants are bad thing.
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> @Rawcode, That's because the spacebar is now used to move the text cursor. It's strange for feedback.
<tgBot> <Denis D> Hello everyone, I am trying to find a guide to install Ubuntu Touch on my GT-i9300 Samsung galaxy s3. it seems that the image download links are dead. any tips?
<tgBot> <dohbee> @UniversalSuperBox, ah right, i think this is a bug then
<tgBot> <vanyasem> @Denis D, https://ubports.com/page/get-ubuntu-touch
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> i somwhow think that thru these   rants some good content comes up.
<tgBot> <vanyasem> it's not supported
<tgBot> <dohbee> if you tap, you should get feedback, but if you hold you should get cursor movement
<tgBot> <vanyasem> you can't install UBports on it
<tgBot> <vanyasem> and so we can't give you a link
<tgBot> <vanyasem> if someone ported Ubuntu Touch before, ask the original author
<tgBot> <Rawcode> @dohbee, exactly
<tgBot> <Denis D> @vanyasem, I checked the page and it does state that the support is at 15% but i know there has been a working ubuntu touch port back in 2013
<tgBot> <dohbee> @Rawcode, i would suggest opening an issue on github, assuming there isn't one
<tgBot> <vanyasem> @Denis D, it's not supported in 2017
<tgBot> <vanyasem> sorry
<tgBot> <Denis D> https://forum.xda-developers.com/galaxy-s3/orig-development/discontinued-ubuntu-touch-13-10-builds-t2315397
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> Alright, who breathed on the forum wrong?
<tgBot> <dohbee> @UniversalSuperBox, @Flohack said it was being upgraded
<tgBot> <dohbee> too bad stuff has to be on cloudflare
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @Denis D, do you jave some source saying that it was available? maybe with that source some info can be found that wouldballow to track that supposed old image.
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> @KrisJacewicz, You missed the message again.
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> i appoligize, it is very embarrasing
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> sorry, Kris I failed to use the mention so maybe you didn't read this one: â¦ @KrisJacewicz - you are skilled developer.  Many people like what you have to say.  However, you are working towards goals that may not be lined up with the group's goals.  This might be because the goals are not clear.  Let me ask you a straight question:
<tgBot> <dohbee> @wayneoutthere, being blunt and objective, and being rude while doing so, are not the same thing. the former is fine, while the latter is not. we have a Code of Conduct for a reason, and it's pretty clear :)
<tgBot> <vanyasem> @Denis D, it literally says DISCONTINUED
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> @dohbee, agree, but we are mostly non-english speakers so many times people dont' understand or the tone is misundertsood.  that's also a factor
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> I meant 'english-as-a-second-language0
<tgBot> <vanyasem> @vanyasem, github links are alive, you could try building it yourself Denis
<tgBot> <dohbee> @KrisJacewicz, i think telegram doesn't handle lots of discussion with lots of people in a group, very well. i'm on gigabit on the web site, and several comments have been slow to appear for me this morning
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @wayneoutthere, i am seeing this now but still scrolling to see what was the question you asked that followed
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> sorry edited
<tgBot> <malditobastardo> @dohbee, I agree with you. Actually I reported this in github 2 months ago
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @wayneoutthere, if it was within my ability than i would off course be sincerely interested
<tgBot> <dohbee> @wayneoutthere, yes, but this is also why i've learned to avoid subjective terms and try to state things more objectively and scientifically over the years, and try to use RFC style for subjective "should" and such
<tgBot> <malditobastardo> I don't like the touch pad thingy anyways. I prefer the magnifying glass tool like in iOS. But that is just my opinion
<tgBot> <Flohack> Just my 2 cent @KrisJacewicz in the German group someone complained that while he tried to install Lazarus IDE he got some problems. Turns out he thought this is our official App SDK. I must say, you still do not stress enough that it is just your personal toolkit. Users get confused, we have to explain and they blame us why we are so unorganized.
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> @KrisJacewicz, awesome!
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @Flohack, yes i see this is as a problem i  would genuinely like to avoid this
<tgBot> <sverzegnassi> @dohbee, @Rawcode Seems there's already one: https://github.com/ubports/keyboard-component/issues/19 â¦ Looking at the PR that introduces the cursor movements, seems that the usual behavior of the spacebar has been overridden, but haptic feedback has not been kept. I'll try to look at it in time for OTA-3, if possible.
<tgBot> <Denis D> @vanyasem, thanks, i will try to build it myself. do you know how much ram ubuntu touch uses?
<tgBot> <dohbee> @KrisJacewicz, maybe whenever mentioning lazarus, you could always say "Lazarus SDK (Unofficial)" or such
<tgBot> <dohbee> @malditobastardo, ah great. at least it should be easy enough to fix with a little timeout handling in the code
<tgBot> <Javacookies> @Denis D, to be honest, I don't think it'll worth your time. It's most likely a very old build
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @vanyasem, well the old work might still be somewhere, and what is today discontinued might still be picked up, you never know
<tgBot> <Rawcode> @sverzegnassi, very kind of you
<tgBot> <Javacookies> and s3 is a really old hardware, it could be slow
<tgBot> <dohbee> @KrisJacewicz, if it was 13.10, it was very likely using SurfaceFlinger, and would likely be not good on Mir
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> I remember @Flohack trying to play with the i9whatever S3 at some point but Odin finally got to him
<tgBot> <dohbee> ie, the same reason nexus 7 2012 was ended
<tgBot> <bhushanshah> Also.. it might be using really old kernel
<tgBot> <bhushanshah> And would need e.g glibc recompiles
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @dohbee, after hearing this i will stress it much more. marking it with unofficial or DontDoItAtHome is all fine with mw because I dont want to encourage situations likenone that Florian mentionned
<tgBot> <dohbee> yes if it doesn't have android 4.4 available, it would also be problematic
<tgBot> <Flohack> @UniversalSuperBox, Dont get me started. But it booted and WiFi worked ^^
<tgBot> <Flohack> and the lights
<tgBot> <bhushanshah> But not graphics ð
<tgBot> <bhushanshah> Me hides now
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> Hey @bhushanshah wanna help me do some fun initrd hacking
<tgBot> <bhushanshah> Sure, PM?
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @dohbee, i had to read about SurfaceFlinger, does it mean currently UT no longer ises it and what it uses instead is not compatible?
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> Mir replaces SurfaceFlinger
<tgBot> <dohbee> @KrisJacewicz, it hasn't used SF in a very long time
<tgBot> <dohbee> and some devices have graphics where the drivers are very unhappy with Mir
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @UniversalSuperBox, just out of curiosity, since Mir speaks a new protocol, does SurfaceFlinger cares about that?
<tgBot> <dohbee> @KrisJacewicz, there is no SurfaceFlinger to care about it, on ubuntu
<tgBot> <dohbee> oh joy, the forum is back
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @dohbee, because when Mir started being  used the SurfaceFlinger was already gone... it just lighted up a light in my head as i wonder if SurfaceFlinger could be used in UT again but as a yet another mean for realizing leagacy apps. This might not be interesting to many people but I just started reading about it and wondering if I could make my UT to switch between the two on demand
<tgBot> <dohbee> i can finally read Alan's post
<tgBot> <bhushanshah> FWIW using surfaceflinger was "hack"
<tgBot> <dohbee> @KrisJacewicz, i don't think so. it doesn't make any sense to try to use surfaceflinger here, and it will just introduce yet more problems
<tgBot> <dohbee> the way forward for legacy apps, i think, is getting the wayland-on-mir stuff working, and relying on xwayland
<tgBot> <dohbee> as suggested by Alan at https://forums.ubports.com/topic/795/running-desktop-applications-on-ubports-x11-wayland-mir-and-toolkits/3
<tgBot> <mariogrip> Sorry about the long downtime on the forum, I was gonna do a quick update, but something failed to build so had to revert, next time I need to copy it and to it offline upgrade first
<tgBot> <dohbee> the initial "jump" is non-trivial, but it will mean less things ubports needs to maintain in the long run, and will likely work more reliably than xmir
<tgBot> <bhushanshah> @mariogrip, Famous last words ðð
<tgBot> <milkor73> @Ilya Zhukov, Hello Ilja Zhukov and welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    â¦ To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
<tgBot> <milkor73> @Denis D, Hello Denis and welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    â¦ To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @dohbee, so to me i care very much about accellerated rendering. On Xmir renderinf is quite slow and on xwayland i only know it uses glamor but jave not properly tested it yet. Trying to see if SurfaceFlinger had this addressed. â¦ Unless for example it is made officially a goal to have xwayland handling legacy apps with accelerated graphics. I just dont know if that's the case.
<tgBot> <bhushanshah> Surfaceflinger was NOT about legacy application rendering
<tgBot> <bhushanshah> It have nothing to do with application rendering
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @bhushanshah, yes it was about just rendering
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> framebuffer to screen
<tgBot> <dohbee> @KrisJacewicz, xmir is fast enough for some people to play steam games via libertine on x86
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> or omly about drawing a ready framebuffer out?
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @dohbee, yes i was told that that is the case on x86 but not on ARM
<tgBot> <dohbee> @KrisJacewicz, well run xterm under xmir and type "glxinfo|grep -i core" and see what it says
<tgBot> <dohbee> but anyway, once the wayland stuff is working, xmir can probably just be totally dropped
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> this part made me wonder about SurfaceFlinger possibly allowing fast rendering: â¦ "(...) The Hardware Composer HAL (HWC) was introduced in Android 3.0 and has evolved steadily over the years. Its primary purpose is to determine the most efficient way to composite buffers with the available hardware. As a HAL, its implementation is device-specific and usually done by the display hardware OEM.(...)"
<tgBot> <dohbee> i would stay away from SurfaceFlinger
<tgBot> <dohbee> it is not going to be helpful here
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @dohbee, alright i will do that. but before i do I know that xmir on arm is slow from actually running apps. I once shared a snake game i made and that one is the most obvious in my testing because I can measure fps. And on my MX4 os much slower than on my raspi, which should not be the case.
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> also i have tested some 3rd party games on xmir and also ssh forwarded gui apps from desktop onto the phone under xmir and some were slow. some were not, I thing it had to do with how your app handles compositing.
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @dohbee, i ll just end up reading about it for refference then
<tgBot> <dohbee> @KrisJacewicz, ssh forwarding is slow on my gigabit and 802.11ac, so of course it's going to be slow under xmir on a phone
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @dohbee, i mean even taking that into consideration. I used x compression and tested against raspi. And my MX4 has betyer hw specs than my raspi does.
<tgBot> <alan_griffiths> There's a whole raft of possible  reasons for such performance problems. The Mir team were tackling them (some of that work comes with the latest Mir), but we first need to get better Wayland support before looking at performance again.
<tgBot> <stuartlangridge> @Flohack, Huh. Ok. Iâll look into it. When did that happen; when you tapped âget a code for an appâ?
<tgBot> <Seumas> Just caught up, even skimming that was a long read :) Glad civility is prevailing.
<tgBot> <Seumas> @Flohack roger that, will raise the issue in the forums soon. Very important for a daily driver to rock hotspot, and sad if an MX4 can do it but Pro 5 can't (again maybe in certain minor/specific ways I bit off a little more than I could chew by opting for "turbo plus"?).
<tgBot> <Seumas> Another question regarding the phone. On Gnome System Monitor it says it has 32MB SWAP and it's consistently at or near 100% usage with several apps being jumped between. Feel slightly disconcerted about that, but are my misgivings misplaced? Considering it sports 4GB RAM and even under normal multitasking usecase, it doesn't use all of that memory. Also, I see that MX4 rocks 512MB SWAP. Is this another potential consequence of going for turbo plus r
<tgBot> turbo vanilla?
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @Ilya Zhukov, Hello Ilya and welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    â¦ To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @Rawcode, There are two controls for keyboard vibration. Do you mean a separate space bar vibration?
<tgBot> <lduboeuf> @Flohack, i think we definitly need a documentation to have a quick overview of how things works, which langages to choose, packaging, howto build, etc... )to to avoid such problems
<tgBot> <SilentSt0rm> @vanyasem, ÐÐ»Ð°Ð³Ð¾Ð´Ð°ÑÑ. )
<tgBot> <vanyasem> @SilentSt0rm, do you have a device running ubports:
<tgBot> <SilentSt0rm> Yes. Meizu MX4.
<tgBot> <vanyasem> oh, cool
<tgBot> <vanyasem> MTK, right?
<tgBot> <SilentSt0rm> Right.
<tgBot> <vanyasem> i have bad news for you
<tgBot> <vanyasem> it won't be supported for long
<tgBot> <vanyasem> it can't be supported by Halium and we're slowly moving to Halium as a base
<tgBot> <vanyasem> oh Bitva Ekstrasensov is back on
<tgBot> <vanyasem> gtg
<tgBot> <SilentSt0rm> I want to run octoprint server and use device as printserver for 3d printer. ) But i can't run stream form camera and can't run ftdi usbserial.
<tgBot> <vanyasem> does camera work
<tgBot> <SilentSt0rm> Yes, camera is work ok, but mjpg streamer not working.
<tgBot> <vanyasem> post `ls /dev/video* -l`
<tgBot> <SilentSt0rm> Video0 is not present
<tgBot> <vanyasem> it should be
<tgBot> <vanyasem> here's an output from Nexus 5: â¦ ```~$ ls /dev/video* â¦ /dev/video0  /dev/video2   /dev/video33  /dev/video35 â¦ /dev/video1  /dev/video32  /dev/video34```
<tgBot> <vanyasem> moving to localized Russian group for this discussion
<tgBot> <vanyasem> @SilentSt0rm, we have an issue here. does anyone know why /dev/video* devices may not be present on Meizu devices? and camera by itself works
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> @vanyasem, Because android cameras aren't Video4Linux devices.
<tgBot> <vanyasem> @UniversalSuperBox, why is it present on Nexus 5?
<tgBot> <vanyasem> and is there a way to work around that?
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> Uhm... Rewrite the app to use the Ubuntu camera
<tgBot> <vanyasem> do you have a link to api documentation for it:
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> https://api-docs.ubports.com/sdk/apps/qml/QtMultimedia/Camera.html?highlight=camera
<tgBot> <vanyasem> thank you
<tgBot> DylanVanAssche was added by: DylanVanAssche
<tgBot> <milkor73> @DylanVanAssche, Hello Dylan and welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    â¦ To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
<tgBot> <DylanVanAssche> Thanks :) I'm a SFOS user but I was always interested in Ubuntu Touch :p
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @DylanVanAssche, Have you got a UT compatible device?
<tgBot> <DylanVanAssche> No I haven't, the Oneplus X isn't supported (yet). â¦ The rest are Jolla devices :p
<tgBot> <Stereofont> Difficult to select a device at the moment but if you want to play without spending much money, Nexus 5 used is an obvious choice
<tgBot> <DylanVanAssche> If my Oneplus X breaks, I will buy a Fairphone which is supported by UB and SFOS. The Nexus 5 is indeed a good option to play around with.
<tgBot> <milkor73> ð
<tgBot> <Stereofont> If you were to choose six months from now, the options might look very different
<tgBot> <milkor73> And Lionelb is my colleague ð
<tgBot> <DylanVanAssche> I can wait :p
<tgBot> <Stereofont> Meanwhile, if you can get a BQ tablet,  those are very interesting
<tgBot> <Brian Saia> I am curious if anyone else is experiencing a similar issue as I am. I am experiencing wierd MMS issues, I have a Nexus 5 (hammerhead) on 15.04 r2 and my telco is Ting (which uses the T-mobile network but with a different APN) I can receive pictures but I cannot receive group messages and when I send a message to a group the members in the group receive individual messages.
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @Brian Saia, You are talking about standard text messages?
<tgBot> <Stereofont> SMS?
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> MMS
<tgBot> <dohbee> Yes
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> SMS but slightly better
<tgBot> <Brian Saia> @Stereofont these are mms issues that I am having
<tgBot> <dohbee> @SilentSt0rm, You'll need to build custom kernel, and camera app needs to use Android API. A custom image for octoprint would be better than using stock phone images.
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @Brian Saia, Has it ever worked and have you checked whether the problem persists in other channels?
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> @UniversalSuperBox, Did mms ever work with UT ? :)
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> Exactly. I just tell people not to mms me
<tgBot> <vanyasem> does anyone still use mms in 2017
<tgBot> <Stereofont> https://help.ting.com/hc/en-us/articles/205421968-Troubleshooting-Group-Messaging-?mobile_site=true
<tgBot> <Stereofont> Text messages to a group are combined into an MMS
<tgBot> <vanyasem> oh
<tgBot> <vanyasem> i forgot that
<tgBot> <vanyasem> thank you
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> Oh you mms'd me? Thats unsecure and old school so I don't do it. Make it sound like not having it is cooler
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> That does not solve the issue at hand Wayne.
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> Do I ever?
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> My job is to report and give opinions without basis
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> I did however make a bottle in blender today so that was a problem solved
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> Thanks @PhoenixLandPirate
<tgBot> <PhoenixLandPirate> :D
<tgBot> <Rawcode> Guys, my notification led is blinking without any notification
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @Brian Saia, Seems you can alter account settings by logging into Ting.com with your account details
<tgBot> <Rawcode> @Rawcode, I'm in the last rc
<tgBot> <Rawcode> Nevermind, I just received a mail and it stops blinking
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @Rawcode, Get it to predict the lottery next ð
<tgBot> <dohbee> @wayneoutthere, Yes
<tgBot> <Brian Saia> @Stereofont, I am aware of that which I why I included that fact in my discription of the problem
<tgBot> <Brian Saia> @Stereofont, I have confirmed this is not due to an incorrect settings with ting
<tgBot> <Brian Saia> @Stereofont, I have never got it to work, I have not tried it with other channels
<tgBot> <Stereofont> I had a similar problem eons back when the defaults from my SIM did not match the APN details assigned to my provider by Canonical
<tgBot> <Brian Saia> @Stereofont, after I created an APN using the information provided Ting I started receving pictures (which is done through MMS) but not group messages (which is also MMS)
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @Brian Saia, Same transmission method but not same [mime?] type?
<tgBot> <Stereofont> Implication is that you are receiving the group texts but they are not being converted into visible form
<tgBot> <dohbee> Is probably a regression somewhere.
<tgBot> <Brian Saia> @Stereofont, so in theory I could pull up the logs/DB were messages are stored and see if the MMS'es were received?
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @Brian Saia, Maybe not see the actual text but see the incoming data
<tgBot> <dohbee> i'm pretty sure it used to work
<tgBot> <Stereofont> Voice clips from groups are received?
<tgBot> <Brian Saia> @Stereofont, ill test right now
<tgBot> <Brian Saia> @Stereofont, I can receive audio clips from another device, it is working normally
<tgBot> <Stereofont> Seems unlikely that it has anything to do with your particular network. Something about translating received data into text in the messenger
<tgBot> <Stereofont> There are online intermediaries which will forward SMS via mail
<tgBot> <Stereofont> Temporary workaround?
<tgBot> <Stereofont> https://support.textmagic.com/article/how-to-send-and-receive-sms-via-email/ I don't like or trust this idea but it might work for you until fixed?
<tgBot> <Brian Saia> @Stereofont, I wish, the problem is when my family sends important, time sensitive information in the form of group messages.
<tgBot> <Brian Saia> @Stereofont, I try to use this old, insecure technology as least as possible, the problem is most people in my life are not on the same page as I am. ð
<tgBot> <Stereofont> As it is as secure as a megaphone, no harm in using an equally insecure email intermediary
<tgBot> <dohbee> @Stereofont, not really equal
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @dohbee, You mean less secure than a megaphone?
<tgBot> <dohbee> i mean it's more complicated than that
<tgBot> <Stereofont> It would be a very crude approach to the problem but useful until we can get this fixed properly?
<tgBot> <dohbee> that assumes someone is actively working on it i guess, so that the "temporary" solution is actually temporary
<tgBot> <PhoenixLandPirate> I wouldnt expect a fix until after 16.04
<tgBot> <Stereofont> I don't think anyone is. So it is down to personal choice. Dirty 'solution' of maybe nothing
<tgBot> <dohbee> depends on how many things one wants to work around to keep using ubuntu on their phone i guess, but sure
<tgBot> <Stereofont> The incoming data logs would be interesting though, to check whether group texts are reaching the phone is some form
<tgBot> <Brian Saia> @Stereofont, do you know what log that would be?
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @Brian Saia, Hopefully someone here will know. If the log contains the group messages in plain text it would be possible to create a script to export them to Notification Sender (from OpenStore ?
<tgBot> <dohbee> what is that?
<tgBot> <dohbee> the messages are stored in the db
<tgBot> <Stereofont> You type text in it and it posts a notification. Shopping lists etc
<tgBot> <dohbee> i think the bit that handles sms/mms is called nuntium perhaps
<tgBot> <Stereofont> I tried to install. It won't
<tgBot> <Stereofont> From January 2017
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @Brian Saia, You will need logviewer if not already installed
<tgBot> <bin_mal_draussen> Hi, i'm on stable with my M10 and E5. Switching to rc ist not possible. There are no download starts. Reboot makes not better. Is there a solution ?
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @bin_mal_draussen, When you select rc and move back a page it still shows stable. The label shows what is installed, not what you selected. Ignore that and swipe to the next page
<tgBot> <bin_mal_draussen> Yes, i have done so. No switching possible. Switch between stable and dev works.
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @Stereofont, Server is down currently
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @bin_mal_draussen, Dev to rc does not?
<tgBot> <bin_mal_draussen> Moment please, i try it
<tgBot> <Stereofont> There were some ghost releases on rc. You have to jump over them
<tgBot> <bin_mal_draussen> Device E5 is on devel now. Switching to rc is not working.
<tgBot> <Stereofont> There was an update yesterday. Maybe an addressing or naming error?
<tgBot> <bin_mal_draussen> How can i check this? Why on both devices i have this problem?
<tgBot> <Stereofont> My M10FHD and FP2 updated on rc yesterday. Maybe a temporary server error?
<tgBot> <bin_mal_draussen> I try it since yesterday ð¤
<tgBot> <Stereofont> Correction: I am still on devel on my M10 and I cannot switch to rc
<tgBot> <bin_mal_draussen> ð¤£ okay, i'm not alone...
<tgBot> <Stereofont> It does say now that I am on rc but I am not
<tgBot> <bin_mal_draussen> okay
<tgBot> <milkor73> For me it never worked rc
<tgBot> <bin_mal_draussen> @milkor73, You're on devel?
<tgBot> <bin_mal_draussen> Now i try it with my M10 stable. Switch to devel or rc is not possible... ðµ
<tgBot> <Stereofont> Notification Server (Npost) installed.  Works but the text is too small to read
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @bin_mal_draussen, M10 devel to stable works
<tgBot> <milkor73> @bin_mal_draussen, Devel with N5
<tgBot> <bin_mal_draussen> Okay
<tgBot> <Stereofont> Ivwil try Fienza stable to rc next
<tgBot> <bin_mal_draussen> (Photo, 2560x1440) https://irc.ubports.com/Fh4j7UlF/file_2905.jpg
<tgBot> <bin_mal_draussen> M10 update to rc or devel is going wrong
<tgBot> <Stereofont> I can't switch stable to rc
<tgBot> <Stereofont> Devel to stable worked fine
<tgBot> <bin_mal_draussen> @neothethird ðð»
<tgBot> <Stereofont> Stable to devel working fine
<tgBot> <neothethird> @bin_mal_draussen, Hmm, i just updated my cooler, seems to work fine
<tgBot> <bin_mal_draussen> Devel works now with a new try.
<tgBot> <neothethird> could you try to reflash without wiping? That way you'll be able to keep your data
<tgBot> <bin_mal_draussen> @neothethird, I'll try it
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> @neothethird, Has IoT gone too far?
<tgBot> <Lyokanthrope> yes
<tgBot> <dohbee> Are RGBs in memory sticks really IoT though
<tgBot> <neothethird> @UniversalSuperBox, haha, Bq M10 HD
<tgBot> <neothethird> but yes
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @neothethird, Did you change channel? Which channel are you on?
<tgBot> <neothethird> Was originally on an older rc, updated to latest, switched to devel and back
<tgBot> <neothethird> no issues
<tgBot> <Stereofont> Odd. I can do anything except select rc
<tgBot> <neothethird> weird
<tgBot> <Marcos> Rodney, Kris, let me add some comment to your smart discussions
<tgBot> <Marcos> I' m just an average user, I do not have kills in programming and so
<tgBot> <Marcos> I fully understand both point of views concerning what should or should not be done with the system
<tgBot> <Marcos> most of users, like me, should not use Kris solutions
<tgBot> <Marcos> but, if those solutions were not available on our system, I will clearly move to Android again
<tgBot> <Marcos> I' m looking forward to be able to use my phone as my laptop
<tgBot> <Marcos> this is my idea of convergence
<tgBot> <Marcos> this is why I moved to ubuntu (and personal hate to android and iOS)
<tgBot> <Marcos> I guess many users think like me
<tgBot> <dohbee> @Marcos, i think way too many people get caught up in trying to define what "convergence" means here, and insert their own ideals based on how "PCs" have traditionally functioned at software level
<tgBot> <Marcos> UT has big potential so, we might jus say which options exists and warn the users to implement or not understanding the risks
<tgBot> <Marcos> I do not think is necessary to have such a "rude" discussions. I do not think are comfortable for anybody
<tgBot> <Marcos> Rodney, when i jointed UT under Ubuntu, they explicitly said there will be potential to use Ubuntu desktop applications in our phones. That was simply fantastic
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @neothethird, Just double checked. Devel to rc still doesn't work
<tgBot> <Marcos> that was convergence to me and I guess foro many
<tgBot> <Marcos> no matter if we use or not!
<tgBot> <Marcos> But, to me, UT benefit should be same as any Linux distro. Freedom to do what we want!
<tgBot> <dohbee> @Marcos, yes, but even with that, there is a whole lot of misunderstanding about what that meant
<tgBot> <bin_mal_draussen> @Stereofont, Same here on M10
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @Marcos, Perhaps a better way to put it is that when attached to screen, keyboard and mouse, we expected expanded functionality. That is not quite the same as saying that 'conventional' Ubuntu apps should run on the phone
<tgBot> <bin_mal_draussen> Now i flashed my E5 new with rc. I hope, it works. Still installing
<tgBot> <dohbee> @Stereofont, you don't need an external screen or input devices for it, though they certainly help; that wasn't really the core point
<tgBot> <milkor73> @Stereofont, I have tried Lionelb so many times, I remember I succeed once to get RC but after 2 updates they stopped arriving and switching back to stable it allowed me to go only to devel
<tgBot> <dohbee> @Marcos, UT was never meant to be, nor was it planned to be, "same as any Linux distro" though
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @milkor73, Maybe a ghost memory of the ghost rc updates? Depends on the route taken to get here?
<tgBot> <milkor73> @Stereofont, I think so: ghost updates, the same reason was my morning 4G issue
<tgBot> <bin_mal_draussen> @bin_mal_draussen, E5 now on 15.04 (r13)
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @Marcos, It is important and useful to discuss these basic issues. I agree that the tone matters too though
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @bin_mal_draussen, Exorcism ð
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @milkor73, Deleting update history doesn't help. I tried
<tgBot> <bin_mal_draussen> Now i'm try to flash my M10 with UBportsInstaller with rc. I'm sitting and wait whats happen... ð
<tgBot> <Crash_Burn> @dohbee, Have you ever hooked up your phone to a screen with kb/mouse? The second you do you will ask where are all my programs. Its like...this is awesome...but now i want a fully operational Ubuntu distro.
<tgBot> <bin_mal_draussen> @bin_mal_draussen, ...reboot... ð
<tgBot> <dohbee> @Crash_Burn, no. nor am i especially interested in doing so. nor i would i probably necessarily ask that question. i'm not a particularly good example of that behavior. i do understand why others might feel this way though.
<tgBot> <bin_mal_draussen> @Stereofont, I do what i can ð
<tgBot> <Crash_Burn> I agree...i dont know the best solution though. Its nice if we can discuss it though.
<tgBot> <Crash_Burn> yea...its an option. could be the tail chasing the dog.
<tgBot> <dohbee> but that doesn't change the fact of how the underlying system was meant to work, or how it must work on top of an android container on such hardware
<tgBot> <Crash_Burn> @dohbee, agree
<tgBot> <dohbee> but IME when people say "same as any Linux distro" they really mean that at the lowest levels
<tgBot> <dohbee> and not at the UX of "oh i can use the same apps on both my laptop and my phone and share data between them easily and all that"
<tgBot> <dohbee> and they generally seem unwilling to accept that certain things need to work a certain way on such devices
<tgBot> <dohbee> because no matter what, phones still are not general purpose PCs
<tgBot> <Crash_Burn> @dohbee, i see this as being an issue from now till forever ;P
<tgBot> <bin_mal_draussen> Okay, it's done. M10 is also on 15.04(r13). I have flash it again with UBportsInstaller.
<tgBot> <dohbee> all android phones don't even use the same bootloader and recovery
<tgBot> <dohbee> or kernel, or android version or...
<tgBot> <Crash_Burn> @dohbee, and im starting to ask...why not. Whats the harm?
<tgBot> <Stereofont> Dekko looking different on a big screen is achievable. Probably also some app analogues which don't work well on a small screen but become useful when on a large one
<tgBot> <Crash_Burn> thats way simplified...i know.
<tgBot> <dohbee> @Crash_Burn, not about "what's the harm?" it's about how things are built by manufacturers
<tgBot> <Crash_Burn> Dekko on phone, thunderbird on screen?
<tgBot> <dohbee> if you want a phone that acts more like a traditional general purpose PC, the Purism Librem 5 is what you want
<tgBot> <dohbee> anything that shipped with Android is going to fail hard there
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @Crash_Burn, Thunderbird lite maybe
<tgBot> <dohbee> @Crash_Burn, no, ideally you could use either on either device, if you want
<tgBot> <dohbee> but that requires tb devs to make things responsive and useful on touch screens
<tgBot> <dohbee> and scale properly across different screens
<tgBot> <Crash_Burn> no, i know. thanks. there will never be a nail in the coffin im afraid
<tgBot> <Crash_Burn> yep....this is a long road...but GNU/linux is used to that
<tgBot> <Crash_Burn> im enjoying the ride! =)
<tgBot> <dohbee> honestly, i don't think linux is the future there, unless it makes a serious fundamental paradigm shift
<tgBot> <dohbee> which i doubt will ever happen
<tgBot> <Crash_Burn> @dohbee, it has proven that in the past, look where it has gotten. thats the beauty of linux, anyone can pick it up andmove a fork in a new direction.
<tgBot> <Stereofont> You mean that incremental will lead inevitably to a dead end?
<tgBot> <dohbee> @Crash_Burn, not quite what i meant :)
<tgBot> <dohbee> fixing little things here and there, writing new drivers, etcâ¦ is not what i mean. i mean moving away from the fundamental design of how linux works today, to something like an exokernel design
<tgBot> <dohbee> the monolithic design is a security and compatibility nightmare
<tgBot> <Crash_Burn> ooohhhh...i gotcha now
<tgBot> <Stereofont> I didn't understand exokernel
<tgBot> <Stereofont> Something more organic and modular?
<tgBot> <dohbee> it's a type of design for a kernel. linux is monolithic, xnu is a microkernel
<tgBot> <dohbee> yeah, the kernel itself would then be very small, and drivers are separate from it
<tgBot> <Stereofont> So nanokernels that make and remake their own linkages?
<tgBot> <milkor73> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Exokernel_revised(english).png
<tgBot> <dohbee> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exokernel
<tgBot> <dohbee> heh
<tgBot> <Stereofont> Brilliant mindsâ¦
<tgBot> <dohbee> or maybe even just a microkernel would be enough here
<tgBot> <Stereofont> So the software would be an AI type?
<tgBot> <milkor73> Is it also like the gnu hurd project ?
<tgBot> <dohbee> hurd is a microkernel i think
<tgBot> <milkor73> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Hurd
<tgBot> <milkor73> Project from 1980
<tgBot> <dohbee> 90
<tgBot> <Stereofont> Hmm. So Nix OS to play with
<tgBot> <milkor73> We will see what the future will bring ð now I am very happy with Ubuntu touch. Goodnight everyone
<tgBot> <dohbee> only 32-bit though
<tgBot> <Marcos> @dohbee, Ubuntu convergence concept was same code for mobile and PC systems. Then, graphic interface self adapted to the installated hardware. Installing any ubuntu application to the mobile was a consequence in case of compiled for such arquitecture
<tgBot> <Marcos> as ubuntu discontinued ut, that approach is not realistic but, again, I m on this system because I expect freedom to use as I want instead of havin android or ios limits
<tgBot> <Marcos> to me, that is the added value of ut
<tgBot> <dohbee> i can install any app built for arm in debian/ubuntu on android too
<tgBot> <Marcos> so, again, I think the secure approaches you propose and i.e. Kris 'dangerous' approaches should be shown to the users. Alltimes advertising the pros and cons. Each user will decide which one is better for him!
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @Marcos, I take Rodney's point that Android phones are not x86. A limited range of compatible analogues (which may seem identical to the user) do seem realistic though
<tgBot> <dohbee> @Stereofont, well, there are x86 android devices too, though very few
<tgBot> <Marcos> Rodney, I do think any user which wants to install a deb package would prefer to do in Linux than in Android
<tgBot> <Marcos> I really think UT is for Linux entusiasts?
<tgBot> <dohbee> Android is a Linux
<tgBot> <dohbee> https://www.xda-developers.com/guide-installing-and-running-a-gnulinux-environment-on-any-android-device/
<tgBot> <Stereofont> I think there us a general sense here that '16.04' will be Ubuntu exactly as experienced on a laptop. If that is what people believe they are going to be very disappointed, come the day. We do need to give more clarity about what actually to expect
<tgBot> <dohbee> those users would have been really upset if canonical had finished up the 16.04 images and released something
<tgBot> <dohbee> because it would have been snaps
<tgBot> <Marcos> I know that Android is using Linux kernel. But does not feel like Linux due to how restrictive and closed is. I m talking like a user
<tgBot> <dohbee> @Marcos, there is no such thing as "a user" here. everyone has different needs and wants from a device.
<tgBot> <Stereofont> There is the 'no Google' element, which is important. 16.04 is important but in the sense of being a better constructed foundation, not yet a more attractive and convenient house
<tgBot> <Marcos> I agree on that. What I mean is that if I compare how Android or UT interacts with me (as user), UT reminds me much more my pc distro behavior
<tgBot> <dohbee> perhaps because of it being unity, but really, many things in UT were modeled after iOS
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @Marcos, UT doesn't bully and control
<tgBot> <dohbee> @Stereofont, not entirely sure what that is meant to mean
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @dohbee, It doesn't say 'you must use our proprietary services and hand over your personal data to do with as we please'
<tgBot> <dohbee> you don't necessarily have to do that on Android either
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @dohbee, Lineage, true
<tgBot> <dohbee> but there are plenty who would have disagreed with you on that point, when we required ubuntu sso login to install apps
<tgBot> <Marcos> @Stereofont, From my personal point of view, if UT on 16.04 continues working as today dors (smoother, I guess), that is good enough. Specially because it has potential embeded which could be easily used in the future (I hope!)
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @dohbee, I would have disagreed with me on that point ð
<tgBot> <Marcos> @dohbee, When my wife bought an iPad and I had to connect it to my laptop through apple software after registration and confirmation of my data, just providing a simple mail address for using the store (no confirmation was needed...) I had a huuuuuge feeling of freedom. But I agree would be better if that was unneeded as well ð
<tgBot> <dohbee> alas, i haven't the resources to build out the things which live inside my skull
<tgBot> <Stereofont> Seems like an exokernel could start off extremely small and co-habit with a conventional kernel. So the resource to begin a shift could be quite small?
<tgBot> <dohbee> at this point i probably wouldn't start with that
<tgBot> <Stereofont> Late. Thanks for the insight. Needs some more reading
<tgBot> <dohbee> maybe in a few months i'll be able to do some interesting stuff
<tgBot> <Marcos> Regardless any opinion, disagreement, etc. once again, thanks to the people which makes this project possible! Great work!!!!
<tgBot> è¡ è£è¯  was added by: è¡ è£è¯ 
<tgBot> <è¡ è£è¯ > Hiï¼everyone
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> Hello!
#ubports 2017-12-17
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> Do we have an Ubuntu fire TV, chrome cast kind of thing ? Something that can just plug in and act as a TV streaming kind of aggregator ? Or a project out there ? Thx
<tgBot> <è¡ è£è¯ > I must chat witch VPN...
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> @wayneoutthere, Kodi
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> And its wonderful plugins
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> The ones that are legal and you can obtain from Kodi. à² _à² 
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> But how about hardware? Plug play pendrive possible? I've used kodi pretty good
<tgBot> <Flohack> @wayneoutthere, Amazon Streaming is not possible in HD. Linux does not support HDCP, so no movies in HD. I hate DRM.
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> Same
<tgBot> <Flohack> @Marcos, Self adaption is a fallacy as Desktop and Mobile are different UX paradigmas. App developers need to foresee a lot more. Auto switching without loosing fidelity on either end is a dream
<tgBot> Geo was added by: Geo
<tgBot> <Geo> New here :)
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> @Geo, Welcome!
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @Seumas, i thought that the internal memory of the phone is much like SD card, meaning, flash based. such memory has limit for number of writes and swap wpuld excercise this limit at a bery high pace leading to decreqsed life span of the storage. Which is why swap is not a desired thing. This is meantality I brought from raspi where OS sits on a SD card. but at least i can replace sd card with a new one on raspi. Not so much the case on MX4.
<tgBot> <profetik777> @Flohack, What's your thoughts on samsungs interpretation of it
<tgBot> <profetik777> ?
<tgBot> <profetik777> With Dex and baking it in as a full desktop standalone next to android in a sense
<tgBot> <Flohack> @profetik777, I can see the point but I am not sure how the make a transition from on the go to desktop. I see it as more exclusive way of work, you run desktop apps on the phone but only with external screen.
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @dohbee, the way i see it is this: a team of people hathered and weighted pros and cons. They found a solution that thwy recognized as the best fit and that is what they realized in Ubuntu Touch. â¦ Then some other people (that would be me btw) have looked at the thing and got interested in im for a bunch of diffefent reasons from what the makers anticipated as core value preposition. Now who is right and who is wrong? I don't thing neither ar
<tgBot> wrong. But I will bring up the fact that the original makers of the original value preposition abandonned it (for the time being, it can still play out any way in the future. off course).  â¦ My experience with Ubuntu on ARM started years ago with single board computers lile raspberry pi. Whichbis why I have no difficulty seeing UT phone as a micro sized PC chassis with an extra touch screen and gsm related hardware. Others will deduct its ability to be serv
<tgBot> but I am in fact using my UT in this way daily. And this is a main value preposition coming from it even of it is not what the makers assessed.  â¦ Now i reckon that i am not the only one who is willing to explore this. At the same time I dont have goal of making my point of view the prevalent one. I feel that it belongs well with a niche. After all ultimately it is not crucial for me that it is UT that allows me to do what i'm interested to do. Plasma Mobil
<tgBot> if it does the job. Librem 5 is fine if it does the job. Currently UT foes the job best. If tomorrow Librem 5 does it better I would focus on it more. I agree with everyone who brings freedom of choice to the argument. UT lacks plentitude of things compared against android or iOS, but I reckon it as providing much more freedom. Lots of things that you can do on Android cannot be done on UT out of the box. But the things that I am interested in doing happen to
<tgBot> on UT. That is where I recognize its value. And it is totally fine that it might not be what UT is being pitched for. It's like at home i drink water from wine glass. Glass maker might feel some kind of way about it but since i paid for the glass i own it and I use it as i see fit. Some of my friends picked it up. Kind of same here.
<tgBot> <dohbee> please do not reply with a novel
<tgBot> <dohbee> it just means TL;NR
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> I feel like this is just going to end up going in circles again. Both of you think you don't agree on how Ubuntu Touch should be developed but I don't see anything fruitful coming from the discussions.
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> I'm glad you found us useful, @KrisJacewicz. And I'm glad you decided to join us given your experience with the platform, @dohbee
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @dohbee, but even you know it is less easy than doing it on UT. Like for the reason of dependencies and possibilities of showing the app on the phone's screen (which is a nice to have option).  â¦ You seem to prefer doing things in containers. But with UT that becomes just an option whereas on Android leans slightly closer toward reauirement territory
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> If you want to have a long-running discussion, please take it to forums.ubports.com or list.ubports.com.
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @dohbee, The biggest argument  forÂ AndroidÂ beingÂ LinuxÂ is, of course, the fact that the kernel for theÂ Linuxoperating system and theÂ AndroidÂ operating system are very nearly one and theÂ same. Not completely theÂ same, mind you, butÂ Android'skernel is directly derived fromÂ Linux.
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> @KrisJacewicz, Stop.
<tgBot> <malditobastardo> I agree with Dalton, I love reading you both guys, But Telegam is not the right channel for a proper discussion.
<tgBot> <dohbee> well it's not a discussion
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> Stop.
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> We've been over it enough times for one day
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @Flohack, i dont agree with this one. to me the ONLY thing that makes it look like there is a whole another paradigm is small touch screen. Once there os a big screen attached (or wirelessly) and a physical kbd/mouse then there is no longer paradigm problem. x86 or ARM is not a big issue either as Microsoft shown. Also ARM currently gains ability to run x86 code at amost native speed (native to ARM). â¦ The paradigm difference is seen when you
<tgBot> insist that a smartphone must be used as sth you hold and interact with via its built-in screen.  â¦ To me you arive somewhere, take it out of your pocket and on your desk plug it into a dock station and the paradigm difference is gone.  â¦ Samsung approached it in yet another way and I personally am super sold by it as well.
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> Samsung did it in an easier way than Canonical wanted to and it seems to work and work better. But i have not tried so this is just an opinion based on seeing demos.
<tgBot> <neothethird> Can we maybe let this one go? I feel like there's a little too much aggression
<tgBot> <Flohack> Well yes an no, Jan, People want to discuss Convergence, so they need to understand what is our point of view. If like Kris says you focus on external display, you dont have any problems. Then the phone is a portable computer like a desktop nothing else. But on the go it wont be super useful
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @UniversalSuperBox, Dalton I hope you will not take this as me being rude because it is not to offend you but I do feel some kind of way about you coming in suddenly and stopping me. it's like im not allowed to say certain things here. Why others are not being "stopped". I noticed it is me being given the final and ultimate "stop" by you and i don't feel it is right.
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @neothethird, is it possible that agression is exagerrated? that there is none here?  â¦ For example me and Rodney have an exchange of arguments but I am not so sure that we are hostile to each other. Well I am not being hostile.  â¦ Perhaps some of you guys are being too sensitive about it. Because i see plenty of good discussion where you perhaps see an agression.
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> This is a very large topic that requires a lot of discussion. I'd prefer it to be in the forum so that you can get the views of everyone, not just those who happen to be in this channel with Telegram open right now.
<tgBot> <malditobastardo> @UniversalSuperBox, +1
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> Telegram moves quickly and messages take up a lot of space.
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @UniversalSuperBox, i still insist that you understand how you sort of decided that the discussion has to stop at just what I hv to say.
<tgBot> <profetik777> @malditobastardo, Make this a debate for the podcast and turned into some content
<tgBot> <dohbee> telegram is only good for gifs
<tgBot> <profetik777> I need to pull out of it I have the community vote LOL
<tgBot> <profetik777> And make a poll out of it lol
<tgBot> <PhoenixLandPirate> (Sticker, 512x512) https://irc.ubports.com/71E3I0D0/file_2906
<tgBot> <PhoenixLandPirate> Have you guys heard about the google amazon fiasco, Ive only just heard about it, googles blocking youtube from amazon products
<tgBot> <neothethird> @KrisJacewicz, sorry, maybe i read the conversation a little wrong...
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> and btw, it seems to some here that i am just trying to single out Rodney in every discussion. But that is not true. I argue with Rodney more than with anyone else here because we both have opposite arguments. When we argue it is being noticed. Most of time o follow his postings passionately because there is great info in it. Just that this is less obvious.
<tgBot> <PhoenixLandPirate> I see you and Rodney argue with a few people, so Ive never seen it as either of you picking on singular people
<tgBot> <malditobastardo> Because of the great info is that I agree with dalton to move these discussiones/debates in a forum, so everyone will have the chance to follow up and integrate it
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> if we all met in a bar perhaps i would hv best timw socializing over beer woth Rodney. IDK. But I think that neither of us is at war.
<tgBot> <Flohack> Its nothing personal from my side just that lengthy Telegram discussions with hefty arguments take up much space. Also no one will be able to follow this because messages are only loosely connected. The forum or a mailing list would be a good spot to into deep.
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> We're on it, Flo
<tgBot> <PhoenixLandPirate> We love @Flohack
<tgBot> Johnny W. Lam was added by: Johnny W. Lam
<tgBot> <Johnny W. Lam> Whats going on everyone?
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> There's a panic!
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> at the disco
<tgBot> <Johnny W. Lam> Sat night! :P
<tgBot> <Johnny W. Lam> Were not in Bensonhurst, NY
<tgBot> <Johnny W. Lam> Porting U-Touch to my old Asus Vivo Tab Note 8, will update when done
<tgBot> <Johnny W. Lam> with Wacom support should be nice
<tgBot> Sunshine was added by: Sunshine
<tgBot> <Johnny W. Lam> (Document) https://irc.ubports.com/Q00LzogL/file_2908.jpg
<tgBot> <Sunshine> Hello everyone.ð
<tgBot> <Johnny W. Lam> Sunshine, I need some sun shine right now, working in the dark is not cool
<tgBot> çºª èç´å­ was added by: çºª èç´å­
<tgBot> <Sunshine> hahaï¼Nice to meet you.Johnny W.
<tgBot> <Johnny W. Lam> likewise
<tgBot> <Tina119> Hello çºª èç´å­and welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    â¦ To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
<tgBot> <Tina119> @çºª èç´å­, I guess they seemed your Chinese name like Chinese seem English
<tgBot> <Tina119> ðð
<tgBot> <popescu_sorin> Fwd from bhdouglass: Hey guys! New release of clickable, fixes some of the issues people have been reporting with the lxd containers (by switching to docker!). Details here: http://blog.bhdouglass.com/clickable/ubuntu-touch/2017/12/17/clickable-2-0-0.html â¦ And new docs up here: http://clickable.bhdouglass.com/en/latest/
<tgBot> <milkor73> @geotechland, Hello Grotechland and welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    â¦ To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
<tgBot> <milkor73> @Johnny W. Lam, Hello Johny and welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    â¦ To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
<tgBot> <milkor73> @Sunshine, Hello Sunshine and welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    â¦ To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
<tgBot> <milkor73> @çºª èç´å­, Hello and welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    â¦ To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
<tgBot> <shen feng> OTA3 community to be fully prepared to speed up the process of 16.04 it?
<tgBot> <milkor73> Yes
<tgBot> <shen feng> Cool
<tgBot> <shen feng> ð
<tgBot> <bhushanshah> Honestly this is ted-annoying... Welcome messages at time becomes clearly like spam..
<tgBot> <bhushanshah> (Photo, 720x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/kQlQBgey/file_2911.jpg
<tgBot> <bhushanshah> It fills complete screen on my mobile phone
<tgBot> <bhushanshah> Nothing against welcoming new members
<tgBot> <bhushanshah> But method is wrong
<tgBot> <RoccoOPO> I think this is a method to welcome new users and also a good method to say all other members how live is UT community.
<tgBot> <bhushanshah> I don't agree, sorry
<tgBot> <bhushanshah> Honestly, you should update channel description and let telegram do it's job here
<tgBot> <RoccoOPO> And then what you think all must do?
<tgBot> <neothethird> @bhushanshah, the welcome team could probably greet more than one person per message
<tgBot> <RoccoOPO> @neothethird, Yes
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @bhushanshah, It is very rare that we have three joining at once
<tgBot> <bhushanshah> @Stereofont, I could scroll back and show you more examples
<tgBot> <neothethird> @Stereofont, but we we do, we could probably do "welcome @one @two @three"
<tgBot> bhushanshah was added by: bhushanshah
<tgBot> <bhushanshah> Hmm damn
<tgBot> <bhushanshah> I wanted to check one thing
<tgBot> <bhushanshah> Not leaving group ð
<tgBot> <neothethird> haha
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @neothethird, We don't have the magic of foresight ð If we waited around for 30 minutes we could do that but the joiner may have gone by then?
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @bhushanshah, Then we should celebrate that we are growing so fast. Yes, a minor inconvenience but look at it from the perspective of someone new. I hate the safety announcements on planes but there are always a few people who never flew before
<tgBot> <neothethird> @Stereofont, in the example bhushan gave, three messages were send out in a row, sending one would not have made a difference. If you're online while someone is joining, sure, greet them instantly. It will probably even createa conversation. But if not, and you see multiple new members at once, do one combined message
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @neothethird, As Milan did. Agree
<tgBot> <bhushanshah> @Stereofont, I'm not against welcoming people, but would prefer a another creative way because this is not scaling and also useless for people joining via another medium such as IRC/Matrix
<tgBot> <bhushanshah> You are not welcoming them are you?
<tgBot> <neothethird> @bhushanshah, What do you propose?
<tgBot> <bhushanshah> I wanted to propose something I thought would be possible but as you saw my join/leave.. it is not
<tgBot> <bhushanshah> But I'll think of something
<tgBot> <neothethird> ok
<tgBot> <bhushanshah> (Photo, 1080x467) https://irc.ubports.com/JsvCj0c0/file_2913.jpg
<tgBot> <bhushanshah> But for starters update this topic
<tgBot> <bhushanshah> This message is shown to users when they try to join through web.telegram
<tgBot> <Stereofont> Hello Joe. Welcome! Check https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome â¦ Not-a-botâ¢ Ask, chat, explore!
<tgBot> <Stereofont> This?
<tgBot> <Sunshine> (Photo, 1280x960) https://irc.ubports.com/s0y4hQr7/file_2915.jpg
<tgBot> <Sunshine> meizu  pro5ï¼What time is the next update.ï¼
<tgBot> <Sunshine> I'm looking forward to it.
<tgBot> <Sunshine> 16.04
<tgBot> <Stereofont> 21 December for OTA3. Early 2018 for 16.04
<tgBot> <Sunshine> Stable.ï¼ð
<tgBot> <SergioSRM> Good Morning everyone! I'm having issues with my WiFi Laptop, at the start up I have to switch off and then switch on the WiFi, otherwise I dont have internet connection. â¦ A fast search at Google's provide me this couple of commands â¦ `rfkill block wifi` to switch off â¦ `rfkill unblock wifi` to switch on
<tgBot> <SergioSRM> I tried to place those commands in Start Up app on ubuntu
<tgBot> <SergioSRM> but is too fast and the wifi doesnt boot properly
<tgBot> <SergioSRM> is there any command to delay the second command?
<tgBot> <SergioSRM> i tried using `rfkill block wifi && rfkill unblock wifi` but is too fast
<tgBot> <SergioSRM> I need something like `rfkill block wifi && (ten seconds later) rfkill unblock wifi`
<tgBot> <Lorxu> Make a .sh file, put "sleep 10s" in it with the other commands and rut that file from startup. This seems to be an Ubuntu question instead of an Ubuntu Touch one though. This channel isn't meant for desktop Ubuntu support
<tgBot> <Lorxu> Oh I guess you may not need a new file. But yeah, "sleep"
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @Sunshine, Yes. OTA3 is for stable channel on UT 15.04. We will have to wait a while before 16.04 works well enough to use
<tgBot> <SergioSRM> @Lorxu, Yeah! Thank you! I know that this is not a Ubuntu Desktop support but I couldnt manage to find a proper way to seach it on Google, I always get tutorials to delay the Shutdown ð â¦ Thank you very much for your help ðð»ð
<tgBot> <Waldbursche> I make'd a webapp with webappcreator. How can i reload this webapp in webabcreator?
<tgBot> <Sunshine> I'm looking forward to the official version of 16.04 because it's much faster than 15.04.
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @Sunshine, I can become much faster than 15.04 but don't expect to see a lot of improvements immediately. Getting it running is the top priority. Optimising it will start after that
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @è¡ è£è¯ , Also try Matrix/uMatriks/riot.im
<tgBot> <Sunshine> (Photo, 960x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/gOtEabtZ/file_2917.jpg
<tgBot> <bastos777> By to all again
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @Sunshine, You can try 16.04 but it is experimental. A lot doesn't work
<tgBot> <bastos777> On the ubports matrix room a user asked me to forward this idea
<tgBot> <bastos777> https://forums.ubports.com/topic/772/workshops-at-locations/4
<tgBot> <bastos777> IMO this seems to be a very good idea to meet. And he is offering space...
<tgBot> <Stereofont> Sounds like it could be an interesting element of a wider 'meet'. Could be an independent UBports meet rather than a fringe to something else
<tgBot> <milkor73> @bhushanshah, Sorry, but normally it is not this way. There is a team and we have also to sleep. And everybody has the right to receive his welcome as it includes very important info. We have feedback that this was exactly what the new members were missing. We asked them. I kindly ask you to try to understand. Thx
<tgBot> <Sunshine> yes, but 16.04 did not do any optimization, but is faster than 15.04, what is the main reason?
<tgBot> <JBBgameich> Probably improvements in Qt 5.9
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @Sunshine, The architecture is improved, so yes there will be immediate benefits. What I meant is that the larger benefits will come from the subsequent improvements
<tgBot> <Stereofont> A new house is exciting. 16.04 is not that but it is a super new (but boring) foundation on which the exciting new house will be built. Don't build yourselves up to be amazed. Initially, you won't be
<tgBot> <bastos777> @bhushanshah, There are two aspects of welcoming. First orientation. Could be done by updating the channel description. Second personal welcome note. This has to be done personally. And it is a gratitude of respect to do so.
<tgBot> <bastos777> It is a kind of unique ubports culture to welcome everybody personally an I like it very much
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @bastos777, Agree. But we can do it more minimally
<tgBot> <Stereofont> Hello Joe. Welcome! Check https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome â¦ Not-a-botâ¢ Ask, chat, explore!
<tgBot> <bhushanshah> @bastos777, For record: I'm not telling you to not welcome, just that current method doesn't scale
<tgBot> <bastos777> @Stereofont, Yes. Why not. I would attend. Best is to follow up directly in the forum.
<tgBot> <bhushanshah> It's limitation of telegram platform.. that you can't send kind of channel notice
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @bhushanshah, Yes. It would be good if only the joiner saw the welcome message
<tgBot> <Stereofont> Except that everyone seeing that we welcome creates a good community feeling I thinkâ¦
<tgBot> <Rawcode> @Stereofont, +1
<tgBot> <Sunshine> @Stereofont, hehe, I will continue to use 16.04, a great system. Thank you for all your work.
<tgBot> <Rawcode> @Sunshine, is it usable for a daily driver?
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @Sunshine, Please use but also provide feedback to help the developers
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @Rawcode, NO!
<tgBot> <Rawcode> @Stereofont, lol
<tgBot> <cibersheep> @Waldbursche, Do you mean, to edit it after creating a webapp? It's not possible yet
<tgBot> <Sunshine> @Stereofont, ok, I also hope that 16.04 will be improved as soon as possible.
<tgBot> <Sunshine> @Rawcode, At least its phone function is normal.
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @Sunshine, Very cool. As long as people understand that it could break apart at any moment, it is fine to play
<tgBot> <Waldbursche> @cibersheep, Okay. This was, what i mean
<tgBot> <cibersheep> @Waldbursche, It's in the roadmap
<tgBot> <Waldbursche> Thank you
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> @bhushanshah, with all your complaining......
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> We will try to welcome more than one at once, but if these annoy you so much, then you have to make a choice: a community with welcoming or without in Telegram because this is the best we can do with all the technology limitations.  If you all want to abandon it, we can't stop you from that choice but I like to be welcomed and a bit  of 'welcome spam' to scroll by seems like a small price to pay considering all the other 'spam' we see in here 
<tgBot> regular conversation.  But it's a community so feel freel to give your opinion
<tgBot> <RoccoOPO> @Stereofont, +1
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> Here is a new topic for the community to throw around for 10 minutes.  In my opinion, it seems most productive to complain about an aspect about a community *privately* first instead of in front of 1000 people.  Imagine walking into a cocktail party with 1000 people and saying 'who made these crappy appetizers???" on the microphone.  It may possibly offend the cook, staff, or even someone in the party.  A quiet side message goes a long way
<tgBot> <dohbee> You're going to be welcomed, and like it, damnit.
<tgBot> <bhushanshah> @wayneoutthere that's not how open communities work
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> @wayneoutthere, and this applies to anything like... say Telegram app, Openstore, whatever.  if possible
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> @bhushanshah, maybe we can improve on the 'standard' then?
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> It may not always be possible, but it often is
<tgBot> <bhushanshah> My critticism was not "Who made these crappy appetizers"
<tgBot> <bhushanshah> I had totally constructive criticism
<tgBot> <bhushanshah> I pointed you why this is issue
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> Yeah but we've covered this
<tgBot> <bhushanshah> no you haven't
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> so hit me us on the side and maybe there is more time that can be put into a solution
<tgBot> <dohbee> Why do they keep shoveling these tasty appetizers in our faces?
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> actually I no longer care about the appetizers but I am concerned about how you think open communities shoud work.
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> This is highly interesting to me as a kind of foundational discussion
<tgBot> <dohbee> Take it to a PM?
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> Ok no
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> we're going to take it to lab because I thiink others will care
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> anynoe who wants a quick discussion on this, come to this lab: https://t.me/joinchat/Baj4lhGOmNABsfHPyYFGVQ
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> or you can poll these 1k ppl here about some of the questions.
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> I'm in the lab @bhushanshah
<tgBot> <dohbee> @wayneoutthere, i was using sarcasm to make a point. i don't think you should be creating an ephemeral channel to discuss this in where nobody will be able to go see the history later when everyone leaves the chat and telegram deletes it
<tgBot> <dohbee> i think splitting discussions out into new channels is a horrible idea, especially on telegram
<tgBot> <dohbee> for one, you immediately exclude any IRC or Matrix users by doing so
<tgBot> <Seumas> @KrisJacewicz and others. So what else do we think about the implementation of SWAP on UT? A necessary evil? Or avoidable? Some Ubuntu installations on other platforms specifically avoid SWAP by having lots of RAM and good memory management, to help SSD lifetime for example. Should we have the option to do this on UT? Especially on pimped out superphones with tons of RAM e.g. my turbo plus.
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @dohbee, Splitting out detailed discussion of installs to the Welcome Room works well because those are details only relevant to the participants and they take up a lot of space. Otherwise, if there are undertones of hostility, best to take it offline for a while
<tgBot> <Seumas> Also, can other Pro 5 users, if they're willing to use Libertine, please load Gnome System Monitor for me and check the size of their SWAP? I'll say again that my mere 32MB seems bizarrely small, I'd have been happy for it to take say 1GB from the copious 64GB storage if that's a more agreeable amount. But I don't think there's any easy way to modify SWAP size.
<tgBot> <dohbee> @Stereofont, i don't mean helping individuals with specific problems. that's fine if it's better for them to PM. that's completely separate from what Wayne is suggesting with all the "make a lab" comments in response to discussions though
<tgBot> <dohbee> @Seumas, Swap doesn't belong on flash storage
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @Seumas, my knowledge of this topic is not at a professional level. I know that on raspi with only 1GB RAM the swap is avoided and discouraged. But I dont pretend to understand difference between sd cards and phones internal flash memory. The reason i avoid swap on UT is precaution.
<tgBot> <vanyasem> @dohbee, huh?
<tgBot> <vanyasem> @dohbee, why?
<tgBot> <dohbee> flash has much more limited write cycles
<tgBot> <vanyasem> i see, makes sense. thank you
<tgBot> <dohbee> the only reason to have it on a laptop with flash storage is to support hibernate (suspend to disk), but at the same time it's fast enough to not need sus2disk anyway
<tgBot> <vanyasem> i also keep swap on my laptop for that purpose
<tgBot> <Seumas> Kris, you say you avoid it. How can we turn SWAP off on UT then?
<tgBot> <dohbee> @Seumas, `man swapoff`
<tgBot> <Seumas> Ah. Of course.
<tgBot> <dohbee> but then that space just does nothing. it's extra N MB you can't use
<tgBot> <Seumas> Well again that 32MB is a trifling fraction of 64GB so in my case, a worth sacrifice ;)
<tgBot> <Seumas> But there's really no downside, only benefits to doing that, right?
<tgBot> <dohbee> i don't think you can delete the partition and resize. partitions are weird on phones, hence the mtk tool stuff to switch between android/ubuntu on those devices
<tgBot> <dohbee> though pro5 is samsung instead of mtk chip, i think
<tgBot> <Seumas> Happy to have it just doing nothing. It's a drop in the ocean for this phone.
<tgBot> <dohbee> @Seumas, well it shouldn't matter either way really. with 4 GB you should never hit swap. if you do, something broke
<tgBot> <dohbee> so i wouldn't really bother with it
<tgBot> <Seumas> Little bit different for my M10 with only 16GB storage (and bigger SWAP partition) , but I'll still probably turn it off on the safe side.
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @dohbee, #DontDoItAtHome #Unofficial â¦ you can format it and mount under your rootfs or userspace if it is impoetant amount to you. â¦ Orherwise ypu can keep it in case because swap can be turned on and off as you wish.
<tgBot> <Seumas> I was multitasking hard last night, jumping between lots of different programs and browsing the net. So it went to 95-100% usage.
<tgBot> <dohbee> @Seumas, i'd just leave it alone there too, for now anyway. remember, the ubuntu userspace is still only 32-bit even on the 64-bit devices (M10 and Pro5)
<tgBot> <dohbee> @Seumas, for the swap?
<tgBot> <dohbee> that doesn't seem right
<tgBot> <Seumas> Yup.
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @Seumas, also I want to let you know that cureently I do not avoid swap by not having it but imstead by changing my swappiness value to highly discourage swap unless ot seems really important to use it.
<tgBot> <Seumas> And IIRC  the monitor read similarly high levels for moderate (because RAM is smaller, it has to be moderate compared to the Pro 5) multitasking on the M10.
<tgBot> <Seumas> Good point Kris, that's what I did with my SSD based Xenial install actually.
<tgBot> <Jaume81> I'm in r/c version, what can I sync nextcloud?
<tgBot> <Seumas> Will state again I'm *not* gonna try to modify the SWAP partition to regular storage on any of my devices. I'm not experienced enough to do that and I don't want to risk bricks. Let's stress to everyone, DON'T TRY IT! Instead I'm going to limit swapiness to the minimum. Best solution.
<tgBot> <Seumas> Do Android and iPhone use SWAP?
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> in my case, i dont even know if thatnis the best solution but that is what i settled with. â¦ If i understood swap and flash memory more maybe i would choose to turn it off completely instead. On desktops/laptops with lot of RAM it is often seen that ppl dont use swap at all unless for hibernation. â¦ I just figured that since i dont know when a bit of swap can really help i might just limit swappiness and hope for the best in terms of write 
<tgBot> flash memory.
<tgBot> <Seumas> Amen.
<tgBot> <dohbee> yeah, i think it's time to not use swap any more when i build a new system. now i have swap that will basically never be used anyway
<tgBot> <dohbee> i certainly won't need it with 64G of RAM
<tgBot> <Seumas> Sounds like a home supercomputer :)
<tgBot> <dohbee> well i have 32G now. no point upgrading if i don't upgrade :)
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> @dohbee, why? You have the link. click it if you care ;)
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> great chat going on and all are welcome
<tgBot> <dohbee> @wayneoutthere, read the rest of my statements :)
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> I did read your comments just fine.  If anyone wants to follow our long discussion about welcoming people to this group, they can jump in the lab.  for those who aren't interested, they can enjoy the silence
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> same goes for heated discussions between two people.  sometimes it's a group othertimes it's better off the side
<tgBot> <technicalbird> I vaguely remember that Ubuntu latest version contains swap as files!
<tgBot> <dohbee> @wayneoutthere, i thought you were discussing "what is the meaning of open community" ?
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> oh, yeah we took that to the labe
<tgBot> <dohbee> my point was it's hardly an open community if small groups are always going off to discuss things separately
<tgBot> <dohbee> but meh
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> too bad you weren't there.  it was a good chat ;)
<tgBot> <dohbee> @wayneoutthere, thanks for proving my point ;)
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> (Document) https://irc.ubports.com/2w8TqJA3/file_2918.mp4
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> I'm there for you Rodney
<tgBot> <Sunshine> (Photo, 960x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/l6FaG7mY/file_2920.jpg
<tgBot> <Sunshine> There's a bug that's been searching for text messages that hasn't been resolved.
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> yes, that bug was filed. it affects me too.  I can't remmeber where link is
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> apparently the bug is fixed
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> ha
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> but it's not ... made it into the phone.  that was last report to me when I reported this
<tgBot> <Sunshine> oh,What time is report.
<tgBot> <Seumas> So there's nothing about swappiness in sysctly.conf, and vm.swappiness = 0 gives "command not found".
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> @Sunshine, somewhere in github....   i posted this about 1 week ago and someone replied 'this is already reported and fixed' but i never saw github link... maybe we should confirm since it's still not fixed
<tgBot> <Jaume81> Somebody get the nextcloud account sync?
<tgBot> <Sunshine> @wayneoutthere, yes, it's still not fixed, It's a long time.
<tgBot> <Michele> @DanChapman, oh ok, thanks. so is there any way to delete cache without breaking the mailstore database?
<tgBot> <Sunshine> @wayneoutthere, Now, My system is ubports 15.04ï¼r58ï¼
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> @Sunshine, whoever can find the bug report send it here and we can all 'upvote it' ;)
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @Seumas, you made a typo in file name yes? â¦ it works on my nexus 5
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> if u dont see your swappiness after reboot add "sysctl -p" to your /etc/rc.local
<tgBot> <Seumas> I typoed here in Telegram, but not in the terminal. Nothing about SWAP there.
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @Seumas, i added the swappiness it was also missing on the fresh installation and 60 is default value
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> tomorrow I will add swappiness function to ATU and update so there ia GUI for doing that.
<tgBot> <Seumas> You added it to systctl.conf? OK will try that. My default value on the M10 is 100 :/
<tgBot> <KrisJacewicz> @Seumas, yess i added it at rhe wnd of the file and then: â¦ $ sudo sysctl -p  â¦ and i can see new swappinness applied by: â¦ $ cat /proc/vm/swappinness
<tgBot> <DanChapman> @Michele, Not currently. But I do have a plugin I can ship in the next update that prunes the cache to only store messages within a defined period. It doesn't currently have a settings UI though so one will need adding otherwise it would have to be setup in config file.
<tgBot> <Michele> @DanChapman, wow, thanks. I'll wait for it and I'll probably ask for help to set it up
<tgBot> <matv1> i have got a N5 that was running 15.04/devel, which is now bootlooping. Anyone have tips how to resolve?
<tgBot> <DanChapman> @Michele, ð I should be finished soon sorting out the mailstore queries blocking the UI thread. I'll whip up a quick settings UI for it once i'm done. ð
<tgBot> <Michele> great!
<tgBot> <lduboeuf> @wayneoutthere, https://github.com/ubports/messaging-app/issues/2
<tgBot> <matv1> it seems to be low in power because it wont boot at all without a charger. but when I attach one it begins to boot, shows the google logo, dies and loops that
<tgBot> <Crash_Burn> @matv1, Stuck power button?
<tgBot> <matv1> @Crash_Burn, doesnt feel like it no
<tgBot> <Crash_Burn> This is a common problem for the N5, what device is it?
<tgBot> <matv1> it is an N5
<tgBot> <Crash_Burn> Wack it on the table... right above the power button.  It is stuck internally.
<tgBot> <Crash_Burn> As if you were trying to knock the button back out.
<tgBot> <Crash_Burn> but not so hard as to break the screen ;P
<tgBot> <matv1> haha why not :)
<tgBot> <matv1> lets try
<tgBot> <Crash_Burn> I've actaully removed the button , and used a piece of metal to cross the terminals before
<tgBot> <Crash_Burn> since then... I've orderd a microscope for phone repairs!! lol
<tgBot> <bhushanshah> Grr in new forums, the hamburger menu is on left side
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> @bhushanshah, You're not helping me advocate for use of the forums. ._.
<tgBot> <matv1> @Crash_Burn you may be right as i did change out a sim and left the slot open. maybe that caused somethig
<tgBot> <bhushanshah> @UniversalSuperBox, It messed really badly with my muscle mem
<tgBot> <matv1> although your telegram doesnt inspire confidence :D
<tgBot> <Crash_Burn> @matv1, That shouldn't affect a stuck button though.  The boot looping is typically caused by power button be stuck down.
<tgBot> <matv1> Will Atwood a statue will be erected in your honor down in the Netherlands
<tgBot> <matv1> Im alive again
<tgBot> <matv1> thanks very much!
<tgBot> <matv1> (Sticker, 362x512) https://irc.ubports.com/9zUeG7bB/file_2921
<tgBot> <matv1> @Crash_Burn ^^
<tgBot> <Crash_Burn> hehehe... cool.  Thanks and enjoy.
<tgBot> <Ion S> guys, what do you think about crypto currencies?
<tgBot> <Schyken> @Ion S, I think they're fascinating technologies, and definitely have their places, but I also think most of it is hot air.
<tgBot> <Ion S> @Schyken, ) I tink it's all about censorship resistance
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> @Schyken, agree. current condition reminds me of the dot com burst
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> i think a few should exist and may the best one win
<tgBot> <Schyken> Aye. I want to be optimistic, of course... But wow, it's a mess.
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> yeah.  one will win but I'm not sure it's BTC becasue from smart people I've talked to it's not the 'best of the best' for a few tecnical reasons
<tgBot> <Ion S> @wayneoutthere, but it is the most secure coin
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @matv1, Could be the famous N5 power button problem?
<tgBot> <Crash_Burn> @Stereofont, heheh.. keep scrolling ;)
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @Crash_Burn, ððð
<tgBot> <Seumas> OK Kris that worked. I've set swappiness to 1 on all three UT devices. Thanks for the tips!
<tgBot> <Sconio> Hello, do you plan to add more apps from Ubuntu Store? Since its deletion, it will be complicated to find some app (uFTP) for example is not available in OpenStore, it's unfortunate ...
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> @Seumas, is swapiness a real word?I thoguht you guys were being cute
<tgBot> <Sconio> or WifiTransfer, which is up to date on Ubuntu Store and not on OpenStore
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> Yes, it's how likely the Linux kernel will move data into swap from RAM.
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> hahaha AWESOME word of the day
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> Hey, baby. how's your swapiness today?
<tgBot> <Seumas> Would you prefer SwapFactor? :*
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> No.
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> Swapiness is awesome
<tgBot> <Seumas> Haha
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> by far coolest word this week
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> ....techrish
<tgBot> <dohbee> @Seumas, sounds like a game show for key parties
<tgBot> <dohbee> @Ion S, bitcoin and things like it are just kind of pure awful. monero seems fairly interesting, as you don't need a warehouse full of ASICs to play with it
<tgBot> <Cesar_Herrera> In the next future computers will be much more fast and the value of today bitcoins would decrease a lot.
<tgBot> <milkor73> @Sconio, Dear Sconio, I have asked for you at OpenStore and at the moment the unswear is NO, the main reason this apps and many others are not maintained and there is not enough resources to keep all this apps for the future in good conditions. The only way is try to ask the developer to move them to OpenStore or if it is possible anybody else with skills could do so. Right now you can still download them from stable channel as there is still
<tgBot> UbuntuStore available or ask someone here if he can create from his installed app a clickable and send it to you.
<tgBot> <Cesar_Herrera> https://askubuntu.com/questions/784372/how-can-i-make-a-click-file-from-an-installed-app/784374#784374
<tgBot> <milkor73> Thanks Cesar
<tgBot> <dohbee> if they aren't pure qml/html5/js or webapps, then they will probably need re-compiled too.
<tgBot> <Cesar_Herrera> Yes.
<tgBot> <stuartlangridge> Published an updated version of WifiTransfer to the Open Store, to fix a version numbering problem, hopefully. If anyone uses it, try updating and let me know if it causes a problem.
<tgBot> <Flohack> @stuartlangridge, super thx!
<tgBot> <stuartlangridge> does the search in the openstore app not work? :(
<tgBot> <stuartlangridge> something seems weirdly broken about it.
<tgBot> <stuartlangridge> (sends link from desktop to phnoe, which works :))
<tgBot> <YougoChats> ðð
<tgBot> <YougoChats> (Photo, 760x132) https://irc.ubports.com/9jcs0dcv/file_2923.jpg
<tgBot> <stuartlangridge> what does that 1K mean?
<tgBot> <YougoChats> Unread messages
<tgBot> <stuartlangridge> ha. Have fun with that then :)
<tgBot> <dohbee> for the channel
<tgBot> <dohbee> not for stuart
<tgBot> <dohbee> :P
<tgBot> <Flohack> @stuartlangridge, We got some issues with Openstore after we removed the Canonical store icon from the scope. Are you on rc or devel?
<tgBot> <stuartlangridge> devel
<tgBot> <stuartlangridge> 'cos I needed to test push notifications for Caxton :)
<tgBot> <Flohack> Ok then it might be because of that. Dont ask me details but Openstore team is informed and we are working on it. Also you cannot updates Apps from Openstore ATM
<tgBot> <stuartlangridge> indeed you cannot. I noticed that one :)
<tgBot> <Flohack> Ah ok I see
<tgBot> <stuartlangridge> not a problem; I was just reporting it in case nobody knew. If someone's on top of it then no problem.
<tgBot> <Flohack> We are but its only 4 days left for OTA 3 so its pressing ;)
<tgBot> <Flohack> I dont want to revert this change as we will face a closed Canonical store probably on Jan 1st
<tgBot> <Flohack> But wo knows
<tgBot> <stuartlangridge> yeah, that's why I've made sure all the proper apps I wrote are in the open store
<tgBot> <Flohack> BTW Rumors have it that I will update Telegram now ^^
<mardy> stuartlangridge: if you have a recent devel image, can you check whether you can update apps from the System Settings?
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> @YougoChats, Don't read every message!
<tgBot> <stuiterveer> @UniversalSuperBox, Don't tell me how to live my life!
<tgBot> <DiogoConstantino> LOL
<tgBot> <stuartlangridge> @mardy, it didn't seem to be working; I got an indeterminate progress bar forever. (Restarting the phone made it go away. The Ã icon next to said progress bar did not.)
<tgBot> aki237 was added by: aki237
<tgBot> <Stereofont> Revision 58 on Faenza. Just updated Telegram okay
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @aki237, Hello Akilan. Welcome! Check https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome â¦ Not-a-botâ¢ Ask, chat, explore!
<tgBot> <DiogoConstantino> Hello @aki237 and welcome! I'm part of the UBports welcoming team. â¦ To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
<tgBot> <aki237> Guys I'm trying to port ubports to Zuk Z1 once again. I'm stuck at this part : â¦ ```device/zuk/ham/BoardConfig.mk:194: device/qcom/sepolicy/sepolicy.mk: No such file or directory â¦ make: *** No rule to make target 'device/qcom/sepolicy/sepolicy.mk'.  Stop. â¦ Device ham not found. Attempting to retrieve device repository from CyanogenMod Github (http://github.com/CyanogenMod). â¦ Found repository: android_device_zuk_ham â¦ Traceback (most rece
<tgBot> File "build/tools/roomservice.py", line 251, in <module> â¦     default_revision = get_default_revision() â¦   File "build/tools/roomservice.py", line 115, in get_default_revision â¦     return r.replace('refs/heads/', '').replace('refs/tags/', '') â¦ AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'replace' â¦ device/zuk/ham/BoardConfig.mk:194: device/qcom/sepolicy/sepolicy.mk: No such file or directory â¦ make: *** No rule to make target 'device/qc
<tgBot> Stop. â¦ ** Don't have a product spec for: 'cm_ham' â¦ ** Do you have the right repo manifest?```
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> Add a sepolicy repo to your manifest
<tgBot> <aki237> @UniversalSuperBox Actually I thought ubuntu uses apparmour
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> It does, but you need the sepolicy repo available anyway.
<tgBot> <Stereofont> Lol labâ¦
<tgBot> <aki237> ok
<tgBot> <Seumas> Is Jan 1st a known closure date for Ubuntu Store?
<tgBot> <sverzegnassi> @Flohack, No, wait! ð Search in the client-app returns weird results (or none at all) since we started to use our remote APIs for that (~2 months ago). It's already on Brian's list, but I guess he wants to wait for the other stuff from the staging branch to be landed
<tgBot> <Flohack> @sverzegnassi, Ok ^^
<tgBot> <Flohack> FP2 users! New Camera module fix (almost 100%) is in Devel!
<tgBot> <Stereofont> (Sticker, 512x512) https://irc.ubports.com/eLiz1HHJ/file_2924
<tgBot> <aki237> During the make stage in including all the needed make files : â¦ ```make: *** No rule to make target '/ubport/phablet/out/target/product/ham/obj/SHARED_LIBRARIES/libcryptfs_hw_intermediates/export_includes', needed by '/ubport/phablet/out/target/product/ham/obj/EXECUTABLES/vold_intermediates/import_includes'.  Stop. â¦ make: *** Waiting for unfinished jobs....```
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> Libcryptfs doesn't need to be built
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> To my knowledge
<tgBot> <aki237> so should i try to remove the make include in android.mk
<tgBot> <Waldbursche> @stuartlangridge, WifiTransfer updadet in 3 days permanently by every update-check
<tgBot> <stuartlangridge> @Waldbursche, Iâm... afraid I donât know what that means? Do I need to do something differently?
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> @Flohack another report for yoy
<tgBot> <Flohack> Yeah I am swamped ð
<tgBot> <aki237> @UniversalSuperBox What should I do?
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> @DiogoConstantino, awesome!  double welcomed!  @bhushanshah that's some welcome power!
<tgBot> <Waldbursche> @stuartlangridge, When i checked the System for updates every time WifiTransfer shows me an update. I run update and the next time, i checked for systemupdates, WifiTransfer shows me an update and i make it again. (sorry for my bad english, i come from a landscape where we must learn russian for years and english in the same time. That confused me ðð )
<tgBot> <stuartlangridge> @Waldbursche, Ah, I understand. Yes, the Open Store has a problem when updating. The Open Store team know about this problem, and it will be fixed. :)
<tgBot> <stuartlangridge> I do not believe that this is a problem of WifiTransfer itself. (If it is a problem of WifiTransfer, I will fix the problem!)
<tgBot> <Waldbursche> @stuartlangridge, No problem. Today i have no trouble with it since i updadet to r13.
<tgBot> <Waldbursche> @stuartlangridge, I think so
<tgBot> <Flohack> @stuartlangridge, Tested now clock and telegram update, no problems
<tgBot> <Flohack> BTW Telegram update is out ^^
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> @Flohack, explain and then your News  Man will spread
<tgBot> <sverzegnassi> @Waldbursche, Did you try to update WifiTransfer with System Settings, or the OpenStore app?
<tgBot> <Flohack> @wayneoutthere, I made a stable release out of the Beta: https://github.com/ubports/telegram-app/releases/tag/v2.5.2
<tgBot> <exar_kun> Yay supergroups works
<tgBot> <Flohack> Hope so ^^
<tgBot> <Waldbursche> @sverzegnassi, Both ways. Same result. Since today it's fine.
<tgBot> <exar_kun> So far so good. Nice job
<tgBot> <DiogoConstantino> I can haz super groupz!!!!
<tgBot> <DiogoConstantino> Thanks @Flohack !!!
<tgBot> <Flohack> np it was overdue ^^
<tgBot> <UniversalSuperBox> @aki237, You were right. Stop what's trying to build it.
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @exar_kun, I updated Telegram beta from the store, now messed up. Part convos from Friday etc
<tgBot> <kristijantkalec> Typing from M10 :)
<tgBot> <Rawcode> New telegram guys :)
<tgBot> <kristijantkalec> Thanks @Flohack
<tgBot> <Jakob> Nice work. Thanks @flohack.
<tgBot> <Flohack> @Stereofont, If nothing works then plz log out / log in again. Tried a restart?
<tgBot> <Jaume81> ðð»@flohack
<tgBot> <hensip> Thanks @Flohack, sending from ubports telegram ;)
<tgBot> <Flohack> ^^ cool
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> ironically i can't get new telegram.  haha.  i recall there is a way to force Open Store to refresh.  how does that work again?:)
<tgBot> <Waldbursche> @stuartlangridge, I updadet now to the new version. Thanks for your work ðð»
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> oh i see there is an 'upgrade' button. maybe this will work.  :)
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> Works. Ã4
<tgBot> <aki237> guys I see an error : â¦ ```system/core/fastboot/usb_linux.c: In function âfind_usb_device.constpropâ: â¦ system/core/fastboot/usb_linux.c:147:63: error: â%sâ directive output may be truncated writing up to 255 bytes into a region of size 252 [-Werror=format-truncation=] â¦      snprintf(info.device_path, sizeof(info.device_path), "usb:%s", sysfs_name); â¦                                                                ^~ â¦ system/core/f
<tgBot> note: âsnprintfâ output between 5 and 260 bytes into a destination of size 256 â¦      snprintf(info.device_path, sizeof(info.device_path), "usb:%s", sysfs_name); â¦      ^~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ â¦ system/core/fastboot/usb_linux.c:161:40: error: â%sâ directive output may be truncated writing up to 255 bytes into a region of size 59 [-Werror=format-truncation=] â¦                   "/sys/bus/usb/de
<tgBot>                                         ^~ â¦ system/core/fastboot/usb_linux.c:160:9: note: âsnprintfâ output between 29 and 284 bytes into a destination of size 80 â¦          snprintf(path, sizeof(path), â¦          ^~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ â¦                   "/sys/bus/usb/devices/%s/serial", sysfs_name); â¦                   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ â¦ cc1: all warnings being treated as errors```
<tgBot> <aki237> gcc : 7.2.1
<tgBot> <Stereofont> @Flohack, Restarted and it works fine - except that I have everything but the Supergroup
<tgBot> <Flohack> @Stereofont, this is weird
<tgBot> <Flohack> Its just the beta release with 2 more cosmetical commits
<tgBot> <Flohack> did you have beta before?
<tgBot> <Stereofont> Yes. Just updated a second time. Fully working now ð¸
<tgBot> <Flohack> Ah well
<tgBot> <Marcos> Florian! Thanks for the Telegram! Nice work!
<tgBot> <Flohack> I had same that Openstore reported it a second time
<tgBot> <Flohack> Strange issue though
<tgBot> <Flohack> maybe it delivered old version first?
<tgBot> <Stereofont> Great work! Thanks so much
<tgBot> <Stereofont> Yes, somehow it did
<tgBot> <stuartlangridge> @Waldbursche, Cool. The new version doesnât do anything new (apart from the nicer icon) but itâs now a higher version than the one in the Canonical store, so upgrades should happen.
<tgBot> <Flohack> yeah I bumped the version
<tgBot> <Flohack> @stuartlangridge wanna test notifications on our server? I did not see error messages now, but can you trigger one?
<tgBot> <Georgecloon> Thanks @Flohack, now I can finally stop using WebTelegram!
<tgBot> <stuartlangridge> @Flohack, I have; Caxton now uses the ubports push server, and it works fine (for me, at least)
<tgBot> <DiogoConstantino> @Flohack did  we also to gif support with this update?
<tgBot> <Flohack> Ok so maybe this was only a test from you ^^
<tgBot> <Flohack> @DiogoConstantino, No. Reason for that is: Telegram API level, once more. We need to update to a higher Tg API, at the current level we get simply empty messages
<tgBot> <Flohack> But I will slowly upgrade whenever there is time ^^
<tgBot> <DiogoConstantino> ok
<tgBot> <DiogoConstantino> that would be perfect, but supergroups and channels is already really good :)
<tgBot> <Flohack> @stuartlangridge, I get a lot of unauthorized messages though
<tgBot> <stuartlangridge> @Flohack, Hm. When do you get those? When hitting âget a code for an appâ?
<tgBot> <stuartlangridge> Or at some other time?
<tgBot> <Flohack> Just can tell you that my push server log shows them
<tgBot> <Flohack> Can you try to register a new client with Caxton
<tgBot> <stuartlangridge> Ah hang on, this is on the server?
<tgBot> <stuartlangridge> I did register a new client; I installed Caxton and then added the browser bookmarklet, and I also added a code to uappexplorer.com
<tgBot> <stuartlangridge> Both of those work fine for me afaict
<tgBot> <Flohack> hmm
<tgBot> <Flohack> Now?
<tgBot> <Flohack> @stuartlangridge, Yeah sitting in front of the server log ^^
<tgBot> <nfsprodriver> @mariogrip repowerd patch works good!
<tgBot> <Flohack> Actually it happens when your server sends to /notify
<tgBot> <nfsprodriver> Will check out brightness behaviour...
<tgBot> <stuartlangridge> @Flohack, I canât test right now because Iâm afk. But using the bookmarklet worked half an hour ago when I pushed an open AppStore link to my phone
<tgBot> <Flohack> ok
<tgBot> <Flohack> Lets see what time will tell
<tgBot> <stuartlangridge> @Flohack, Is that not where Iâm meant to send it?
<tgBot> <Flohack> Sure!
<tgBot> <Flohack> I mean of course send it there
<tgBot> <stuartlangridge> Iâm happy to do a live test with you watching the logs at some point when weâre both available :)
<tgBot> <mariogrip> @nfsprodriver, YAY ;D
<tgBot> <stuartlangridge> Itâs possible the Caxton server is doing something wrong
<tgBot> <Flohack> Yes if he sends for tokens that I dont know maybe
<tgBot> <dohbee> people using it who are on stable?
<tgBot> <Flohack> @stuartlangridge, Cool ok
<tgBot> <Matteo> Sorry.....
<tgBot> <Flohack> @Matteo, Why people click on all links ð
<tgBot> <dohbee> ah telegram
<tgBot> <Matteo> ð
<tgBot> <peternerlich> you can click this
<tgBot> <Flohack> lol
<tgBot> <Flohack> Thanks Guys!
<tgBot> <Matteo> ðð Thanks Florian for stable Telegram BTW! I was already in beta ð
<tgBot> <peternerlich> ðð
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> @Stereofont, Had same problem but closed and reopened Openstore then found an upgrade option on telegram
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> Yes I also had beta before
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> I noticed I lost all My Yumi logos after upgrade.
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> (Photo, 768x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/IRGNQ6UU/file_2926.jpg
<tgBot> <wayneoutthere> I lied. Might just be this supergroup I lost logo for
<tgBot> <malditobastardo> Logos ?
<tgBot> Tomista69 was added by: Tomista69
<tgBot> <Waldbursche> @wayneoutthere, Close app and restart
<tgBot> <malditobastardo> I can finally paste links!!
<tgBot> <malditobastardo> Flohack ð»ð»
<tgBot> <Flohack> @wayneoutthere, Its random, cause unknown. :)
<tgBot> <Stereofont> (Photo, 1280x720) https://irc.ubports.com/16jIULAz/file_2928.jpg
<tgBot> <Stereofont> FP2 camera photo
<tgBot> <peternerlich> Welcome @Tomista69! I'm part of the Welcoming Team. Please read https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome first to get up to speed. If you have any questions, feel free to ask them, especially in the Newcomers Room. Have a nice stay! ð
<tgBot> <Flohack> @Stereofont, woot woot!
<tgBot> <j2g2rp> @Flohack, "Server synchronization: This version tries to detect when server sync is lost (usually by changing from WiFi to network or other way round, or by having Telegram sleep in the background for more than 15 minutes). There is special code inside to re-request data from the server. After waking up Telegram please be patient as it does NOT indicate that there is more data to come. After usually 5-10 seconds it should have updated, though." â¦ T
<tgBot> sounds very promissing.  one thousand thanks Florian you are great.
<tgBot> <j2g2rp> i have a question about the transition from canonical notifications to ubports server. â¦ If I'm correct, in last devels and rc the switch between servers are done, because of that notifications are still missing (that's what I understood from news chanel). We should upgrade now to rc or devel to help you to debug the new system? or there is nothing we can do?
<tgBot> <Flohack> ð
<tgBot> <Flohack> @j2g2rp, No you cant do much as I would have to report each device to Telegram guys to redirect it manually. We are testing with 3 devices though and all looks good
<tgBot> <Flohack> We shall see on Thu ^^
<tgBot> <j2g2rp> Ok then i won't update untill you need people to test it :) thanks for the answer Florian
<tgBot> <j2g2rp> (and for all the work)
