#xubuntu-devel 2011-08-22
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<madnick> morning :)
<GridCube> good morning
<charlie-tca> I thought we uploaded the new xubuntu-lightdm but I am not seeing it on any tests here
<madnick> the new lightdm theme?
<charlie-tca> yes
<madnick> Nope, we uploaded the new plymouth
<mr_pouit> I only uploaded what I got (= plymouth theme :p)
<charlie-tca> am I mistaken and we aren't using it yet?
<charlie-tca> That explains a lot
<charlie-tca> Glad I didn't file a bug for it, too.
<madnick> I had problems with getting the greeter running on Oneiric, but it seems to work now, but its not yet 100% done
<charlie-tca> Then it is just me, huh?
<charlie-tca> I will stop looking to see why I broke it, too ;)
<GridCube> bug 831370
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 831370 in oneconf (Ubuntu) "oneconf crashes constantly on xubuntu oneiric " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/831370
<charlie-tca> yes
<charlie-tca> That hits every install, and sometimes when I run updates too
<charlie-tca> There is an older bug for it, if I can find it
<madnick> Btw, todays images drops from install to Desktop, but I think there was an install option on the desktop? :P
<charlie-tca> There should be
<knome> does somebody know if something has been done to the boot menu logo?
<madnick> I mean, it was possible to install it from there
<madnick> atleast it started
<charlie-tca> knome: Nothing has been done yet.
<charlie-tca> low priority
<charlie-tca> How's the website looking?
<knome> charlie-tca, imo the logo is highish priority, and it's really easy to do, so it would be a shame if we *still* didn't get the new logo in :(
<knome> charlie-tca, the website looks fine. i think i need some time with pleia2 and we're done
<charlie-tca> The logo is not high priority, it is a nice to get it done thing
<GridCube> if i dont have a bluethoot device will the bluethoot config fail?
<charlie-tca> GridCube: probably
<knome> charlie-tca, from my point of view, it's one of the highest priority stuff. we already slacked off a few releases not changing it.
<GridCube> scrot isnt installed by default
<charlie-tca> Okay, mark it high priority for you only
<charlie-tca> It is not a high priority item for Xubuntu.
<knome> charlie-tca, i have, and that's why i'm asking about it again and again
<charlie-tca> We have very high importance items to get done. The logo is almost in wishlist as far it goes
<knome> charlie-tca, i understand. but don't blame me for asking.
<charlie-tca> asking is fine, but pushing it as high is not so okay. It really is not high importance
<charlie-tca> I need images that work, and a refreshed website. Those are important to get done
<knome> in terms of getting the branding up-to-date, the logo is nearly as important as the website. just saying. no need to start arguing about it.
<GridCube> http://imagebin.org/
<GridCube> http://imagebin.org/169132
<GridCube> XD
<knome> GridCube, wow, the shot looks freaky with twho different terminal fonts/font sizes
<knome> -h
<GridCube> one is xterm and other is xfce4-terminal
<charlie-tca> GridCube: why do you have gnome-control-center installed?
<GridCube> its a fresh install
<GridCube> its oneiric
<charlie-tca> really?
<GridCube> i havent done anything
<GridCube> i just cliked the bluethoot thing
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: do we need that? 
<charlie-tca> Bluetooth should fail if you don't have the capability, I think.
<GridCube> yes i figured that much
<charlie-tca> gnome-control-center should not be installed for Xubuntu, though
<charlie-tca> run apt-cache policy gnome-control-center
<GridCube> the warning message was the thing that bothered me
<charlie-tca> see if it is installed
<GridCube> http://imagebin.org/1691
<GridCube> http://imagebin.org/169133
<charlie-tca> Thus the reason for the error. report the warning/crash as a bug then. Make sure to add that about gnome-control-center, usually copy and paste the apt-cache policy stuff
<charlie-tca> We should not get a crash from that
<GridCube> >ubuntu-bug gnome-control-center
<GridCube> ?
<charlie-tca> yes, try that
<charlie-tca> as to the oneconf bug, can you attach the /var/log/installer logs to it?
<GridCube> sure
<GridCube> D: there is no mousepad
<madnick> leafpad
<madnick> :)
<charlie-tca> Not sure, but I think that is bug 828758
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 828758 in oneconf (Ubuntu) "oneconf-query crashed with DBusException in __new__(): org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.NoServer: Failed to connect to socket /tmp/dbus-rAulHuvLyM: Connection refused" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/828758
<jarnos> I am offered partial upgrade, but I can not do even that: could not download the upgrades e.g. failed to fetch some python package from http://fi.archive.ubuntu.com/
<jarnos> Well, maybe I try later.
<GridCube> sorry /chores
<GridCube> what part of /var/log/installer/ you want?
<GridCube> all of it?
<charlie-tca> at least syslog
<charlie-tca> dmesg if it is there, too
<charlie-tca> Hoping it will show why that oneconf is crashing
<GridCube> appended all
<GridCube> bug 831488
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 831488 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "gnome-control-center not found on xubuntu oneiric when launching bluethoot device" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/831488
<charlie-tca> looking
<charlie-tca> Good
<charlie-tca> Hm, apport is not attaching any logs to these bugs
<charlie-tca> That is a problem
<GridCube> mmm
<GridCube> what do you need then?
<GridCube> quadrapassel fails to launch
<GridCube> buging it
<charlie-tca> the game?
<charlie-tca> again?
<GridCube> yes
<GridCube> yes
<charlie-tca> or maybe still?
<GridCube> probably
<GridCube> so i dont bug it?
<charlie-tca> ever did work last release
<GridCube> im lauching everything to see if it works
<GridCube> :P
<charlie-tca> attach syslog and dmesg to the bugs
<charlie-tca> find them in /var/log
<GridCube> to all?
<charlie-tca> yes, if it doesn't do it, you should. We have to have a log that shows why things fail
<charlie-tca> quadrapassel might be regression according to bug 561734
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 561734 in mesa (Ubuntu) "quadrapassel doesn't start: Failed to initialise clutter: Unable to select the newly created GLX context" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/561734
<charlie-tca> Try in terminal and see what happens. If it gives the same errors, it is a regression
<Unit193> Quadrapassel = Gnome (Something) and hasn't worked since 6.10 for me really (since it had it's old name)
<charlie-tca> One of those games I try each release... 
<charlie-tca> oh, hell
<charlie-tca> one of those gnome games broken by the gtk2 to gtk3 upgrades or gnome3 upgrades
<GridCube> its the same
<GridCube> glx stuff
<charlie-tca> yup
<GridCube> i report it again?
<charlie-tca> falls under the same bug as solitare won't work
<Unit193> Err... Not quadrapassel, Same Gnome
<GridCube> or just click this happens to me again?
<charlie-tca> click again
<charlie-tca> No point in reporting another bug
<charlie-tca> Lot of things are still broken by the upgrade; remains to be seen what will get fixed
<GridCube> shimmer looks wrong
<GridCube> i mean greybird
<GridCube> see http://imagebin.org/169149
<GridCube> the arrows are n ot the same, i think you are giving an old version of greybird
<charlie-tca> Did ochosi give us the updated greybird?
 * GridCube shrugs
<charlie-tca> As far as I know, he never pushed it into updates
<GridCube> oh, well 
<GridCube> its not the same im using now, im using his latets :/
<GridCube> there dmesg and syslog attached to both bugs 831488 and 831370
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 831488 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "gnome-control-center not found on xubuntu oneiric when launching bluethoot device" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/831488
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 831370 in oneconf (Ubuntu) "oneconf crashes constantly on xubuntu oneiric " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/831370
<GridCube> :D
<charlie-tca> Thank you
<GridCube> the amount of udev errors at boot time is increasing
<GridCube> users-admin doesnt work, but you knew that one already
<charlie-tca> yup
<GridCube> no report then?
<charlie-tca> The aisleriot solitair should have failed too
<charlie-tca> no report needed for users-admin
<GridCube> there is no such thing
<charlie-tca> good, then we removed it until it gets fixed
<charlie-tca> !nicde
<charlie-tca> !nice
<ubottu> 'Nice' is a property of a process that determines how willing it is to give CPU time to other processes.  A higher value makes it more likely to give away time.  A negative value makes it less likely. Values are from -19 to 19, with 0 being the default.  For more information, type 'man nice' at a terminal.
<GridCube> imagebin.org/169153
<GridCube> :| i don't like ff6
<Unit193> What factoid were you looking for?
<Unit193> I've never used FF6 actually...
<charlie-tca> yup
<charlie-tca> same errors
<GridCube> its mozilla chrome
<charlie-tca> Apparently, some packages are out of date again
<Unit193> I know what they are doing to it as I'm using FF8 now (Skipped from 5 > 7 back when most people were still using 5 :P )
<charlie-tca> As close as I can guess, they are going to make firefox a nightmare soon. No more version numbers visible to the user, maybe follow in IE's footsteps?
<GridCube> lol
<GridCube> if i wanted to use chrome i would use chrome
<Unit193> ^^
<charlie-tca> heh
<charlie-tca> I guess I will wait and see what develops from it
<Unit193> If I wanted to use a crappy browser, I would already be using it
<GridCube> i will move to another browser soon if they keep pushing chrome down my trhoat
<charlie-tca> I did not know mozilla wants you to use chrome
<GridCube> please they are doing everything to be like them
<GridCube> up tabs, hidding http and "highlighting domains"
<GridCube> one single menu for everything, no options
<GridCube> changing version numbers so no addon can work
<GridCube> /rant
<Unit193> Hiding http isn't nice, but highlighting the domain part doesn't bother me
<GridCube> yeah i could live whit that
<GridCube> but if i have a blog, my blog name will be greyed out and the server will stand out
<Unit193> Tabs are not on top with me, there are multi menus, but the version numbers are getting a little out there...
<GridCube> well i give firefox a pro point on that, they let you revert most of the things they do
<GridCube> but its kind of annoying, that in every update i have to go arround looking for ways to "undo" stuff they did
<Unit193> Tip: status-4-ever
<GridCube> i know about that, but its ridiculous 
<GridCube> that now, you need an addon for something that should be there to beging whit
<GridCube> also thats other thing they took from chrome
<Unit193> Yes it should stay as default, they are changing some things that I wouldn't, and don't, want changed
<madnick> thank god for Firefox 1.5
<Unit193> 1.5?
<madnick> best version :) it had all that stuff
<Unit193> 3.6 still gets updates though
<GridCube> i still use that 
<GridCube> 3.6
<Unit193> I must give them that FF8 seems a bit faster
<GridCube> on this box, its the main reason why i don change 10.04
<Unit193> (Faster than FF&)
<madnick> Firefox renders my raycasting faster than Chrome ^^
<GridCube> also since ff6 update on my work's machine it hangs every 40 minuts, clock
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu community meeting in #xubuntu-devel in 40 minutes. Everyone is invited to attend. Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<Unit193> Wow, didn't even remember that was today...
<charlie-tca> finally! a reminder that gets noticed ;)
<Unit193> I'm always glad to get them! I just used to not be able to make it (The reason I can now is sad, but works)
<mr_pouit> maybe we shouldn't use the gnome bluetooth thing
<mr_pouit> blueman was working pretty well last time I checked
<mr_pouit> (and I don't think it needs gnome-control-center)
<charlie-tca> That could well be, but we are getting that same outdated packages error on a lot of things
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: you ready for the meetingt?
<charlie-tca> I am all for getting rid of gnome-??? as much as we can, since they seem to want to pull in so much most of the time.
<charlie-tca> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Aug 22 19:02:01 2011 UTC.  The chair is charlie-tca. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Useful Commands: #topic #action #link #idea #voters #vote #chair #action #agreed #help #info #endmeeting.
<GridCube> :)
<GridCube> meeting time?
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Agenda for today's meeting:
<meetingology> TOPIC: Agenda for today's meeting:
<charlie-tca> * Old business
<charlie-tca> * Team updates
<charlie-tca>   * Packaging & Development
<charlie-tca>   * Bug Triage & Testing
<charlie-tca>   * Website & Marketing
<charlie-tca>   * Artwork
<charlie-tca>   * Documentation
<charlie-tca> * Announcements
<charlie-tca> * Governance structure
<charlie-tca> * Any Other Business
<charlie-tca> Reminder:   please use ".." on separate line when you've finished typing.   If someone wants to comment during the updates, please "o/", so we know to wait.
<charlie-tca> The agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] === Old Business ===
<meetingology> TOPIC: === Old Business ===
<charlie-tca> geany has a delay when trying to use the right click menu
<charlie-tca> GridCube to put together the "TOP 10" for Xubuntu - In-work
<charlie-tca> If anyone has something in particular they think should be in the list, please tell GridCube 
<GridCube> hard week
<charlie-tca> so, slow progress?
<GridCube> no progress, hope to get it done this week
<GridCube> ..
<charlie-tca> Thank you, GridCube 
<charlie-tca> Your efforts are apreciated!
<charlie-tca> madnick to look into building a lightdm greeter - In-work
<GridCube> oh yes telling me its cool, its hard to see what its important to add
<charlie-tca> madnick: how we doing?
<GridCube> ..
<madnick> Doing OK, the greeter itself works
<madnick> Its not finished, but the problem i have is with --test-mode )
<madnick> But I hope to be done by this week
<charlie-tca> Maybe they broke that mode now?
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: what's the latest date we have to be done by?
<madnick> Maybe, It just twitches and dies and no logs on it
<mr_pouit> UI freeze is on next thursday iirc
<madnick> ..
<charlie-tca> so, we need to get lightdm in by the 25th
<charlie-tca> charlie-tca to start a release checklist page for Xubuntu
<charlie-tca> I forgot
<charlie-tca> will get this going this week
<Olbi> Hello all :)
<charlie-tca> Hello, Olbi 
<GridCube> hello Olbi 
<charlie-tca> Welcome to the Xubuntu Community Meeting
<charlie-tca> Any questions on old business?
<charlie-tca> any old business we missed?
<GridCube> not that i recall
<knome> WWII
<GridCube> thats pretty much done
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] === Team updates ===
<meetingology> TOPIC: === Team updates ===
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] ==== Packaging & Development ====
<meetingology> TOPIC: ==== Packaging & Development ====
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: ??
<GridCube> o/
<mr_pouit> GridCube: question?
<GridCube> what happened to mousepad and scrot
<GridCube> ?
<mr_pouit> mousepad has been replaced by leafpad
<knome> \o/
<xrdodrx> \o/
<GridCube> oh.. i see. ok.
<charlie-tca> They broke mousepad bad for us
<xrdodrx> mousepad doesn't even function properly for me in natty :/
<charlie-tca> ..
<mr_pouit> (mousepad is supposed to be a better fork of leafpad, but mousepad isn't well maintained currently, and leafpad has some activity upstream, and uses teh gtk+ printing api)
<GridCube> okay 
<GridCube> and scrot?
<mr_pouit> was it in the default package set?
<mr_pouit> I don't think so
<GridCube> dunno, in today test install it wasnt there
<charlie-tca> !info scrot
<ubottu> scrot (source: scrot): command line screen capture utility. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.8-13 (natty), package size 15 kB, installed size 72 kB
<charlie-tca> snapshot?
<charlie-tca> screenshot
<charlie-tca> was missing from Accessiories?
<GridCube> the problem is that using print screen key doesnt work if you have the panels locked, so
<GridCube> when you want to screenshot something that hangs the panels., like an error you have to launch it from a terminal
<GridCube> and scrot is faster to write than xfce4-screenshoter
<GridCube> ..
<charlie-tca> oh
<charlie-tca> we have never installed scrot by default
<mr_pouit> GridCube: really? printscreen should call the xfce4-screenshooter binary, not the panel plugin, so it should work afaik
<GridCube> no
<mr_pouit> if it doesn't, please file a bug
<GridCube> no keybinging work if a panel is open 
<GridCube> like configuration or something like that
<GridCube> it never did
<mr_pouit> ah, yeah, because it gets the focus
<GridCube> if you launch the start menu, forget about keybindings
<mr_pouit> (and grabs the keyboard, etc. like when a menu is opened)
<GridCube> yes that
<mr_pouit> yeah
<Olbi> maybe shutter? http://shutter-project.org/
<xrdodrx> what is the benefit of locking the panel?
<Olbi> is better than scrot :]
<mr_pouit> I think it's a problem (or call that a design choice) of gtk
<charlie-tca> nah, it just takes installing scrot
<GridCube> and launching scrot is faster, i could xfce4-sc[tab][tab] but is faster to scrot
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: what about seeding scrot? Is it possible?
<GridCube> nevermind i though it was on previous versions
<xrdodrx> GridCube, xfce4-screenshotter is part of default xfce
<xrdodrx> scrot is a command line application
<xrdodrx> i don't think we want to replace something graphical with something command line
<GridCube> i must have installed it back in the day on 10.04 
<Olbi> scrt will be very usfell, specially when u are tested livecd
<xrdodrx> especially since new users aren't going to want to open a terminal just to take a screenshot :\
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca: daily alternate/i386 is already oversized by ~300k, I'd like to avoid that
<charlie-tca> good enough
<Olbi> so for graphical take shutter, and for cmd scrot
<charlie-tca> if a user really wants it, they should install it then
<xrdodrx> ^
<GridCube> no, as i said, i though it was there back on 10.04 but i must have installed it myself
<charlie-tca> It really is a matter of the number of letters needed to run the app
<GridCube> yes
<xrdodrx> GridCube, create an alias
<Olbi> xubuntu is for devel or fo users?:P
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu is for users. We do what is best for the user, almost all the time.
<xrdodrx> echo 'alias sshot="xfce4-screenshotter"' >> ~/.bashrc
<xrdodrx> :)
<GridCube> :P it would be faster to launch xfce4-screenshoter that create an alias and then launch it, so never mind
<GridCube> ..
<Olbi> maybe script for xfce4-screenshoter ?
<charlie-tca> The point was, whether in live session or installed session, scrot is faster to type the xfce4-screenshooter
<Olbi> which will be called screenshot?
<xrdodrx> but just hitting the prntscrn key brings up xfce4-screenshotter
<charlie-tca> It doesn't matter which one he uses, they both will do the same job for it.
<xrdodrx> this wouldn't work with scrot since scrot is command line
<beardygnome> i came in late so sorry if i'm back tracking here, but are keyboard shortcuts broken in oneric?
<charlie-tca> okay, let's continue with the meeting.
<GridCube> yes please
<charlie-tca> no, you can't use them when a panel app is hung
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: do you have a developer update today?
<mr_pouit> yep
<charlie-tca> floor is your's
<mr_pouit> Okay, so, last week, xubuntu-default-settings was updated to set the default session & greeter for lightdm \o/; some xubuntu-artwork uploads for the plymouth themes (more to come when madnick and knome are around at the same time); I fixed the build failure of abiword, and micahg fixed some package conflicts (the gtk themes have been moved from xubuntu-artwork to murrine-themes).
<mr_pouit> Yesterday I dropped "de" language packs from i386 daily live to make it fit again in 700M (it wasn't in amd64, only in i386 because "we're supposed to have much free space there" :/).
<knome> mr_pouit, what do you need from us? :)
<mr_pouit> ..
<Olbi> I think abiword isnt good ass default aplication for text writing
<mr_pouit> knome: the 16b theme support :p
<knome> mr_pouit, okay, i've provided the files for madnick
<madnick> except the logo! :P
<knome> hmm?
<knome> wrong..
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/oneiric_plymouth/xubuntu_logo_lowdepth.png
<Olbi> maybe install by default writer and calc only? they arent so hardly for systems :P
<knome> there you go
<madnick> oh okay :)
<charlie-tca> Olbi: can it wait until we get to Other?
<Olbi> ok
<Olbi> charlie-tca: ok
<charlie-tca> Thanks, mr_pouit. You guys stay pretty busy, I am glad you are on top of things
<mr_pouit> no, thank you ;-)
<charlie-tca> knome, madnick : that is the last thing for lightdm, right?
<mr_pouit> no more questions?
<GridCube> o/
<madnick> charlie-tca: for plymouth
<GridCube> https://launchpad.net/bugs/831488
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 831488 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "gnome-control-center not found on xubuntu oneiric when launching bluetooth device" [Undecided,New]
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: maybe-ubiquity is just the app that takes the cd menu away
<charlie-tca> we still need to update the logo for the menu
<knome> charlie-tca, this was for plymouth. if we have some time, i'd actually want to talk about a few minor issues in lightdm
<charlie-tca> well, doesn't take it away, but hides it from the users
<knome> charlie-tca, the UI freeze is on WED, so we need time until tomorrow noon to make absolutely last minute changes?
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca: yeah, all other variants/derivatives/<whatever you call them> use it, don't they?
<charlie-tca> It gives Ubuntu the "install now"  and "try now"  menu late in the boot process instead of the cd menu
<charlie-tca> I don't remember if they all use it.
<charlie-tca> You want the menu hidden?
<charlie-tca> I will have it activated if we do want it.
<charlie-tca> Shouldn't take effort here, installer does it all
<charlie-tca> but I still need to get the logo on the menu updated, since pressing a key gives the user the same menu we have
<mr_pouit> I recall it was a bit nicer, but I didn't use an ubuntu/kubuntu iso for a long time ;>
<charlie-tca> Okay
<charlie-tca> I will tell them do it to us
<knome> o/ i'm just having a talk with NCommander on the livecd menu logo
<mr_pouit> okay, if it's too risky, we can delay that for O+1
<charlie-tca> knome: lightdm?
<knome> no, before that
<charlie-tca> yay
<charlie-tca> UI freeze is at August 25, 2011 at 21:00 UTC
<knome> oh, so aug 24 is the last day to submit things?
<charlie-tca> So, Thursday about 1 and a half hours from now
<knome> well, the wiki said last minute updates should be made 1 day earlier
<charlie-tca> Preferred to get things in wednesday, yes
<knome> yeah.
<knome> madnick, do you have some time today?
<madnick> I guess sleep will have to wait until friday :|
<madnick> knome: yes
<knome> madnick, takes maybe 15mins, or at most 30
<charlie-tca> Any questions on development and packaging?
<charlie-tca> knome: you got the logo update handled?
<knome> charlie-tca, i'll try to do that, if at all possible, but i think yes'ish
<charlie-tca> okay
<GridCube> charlie-tca, today's bug?
<charlie-tca> You had some lightdm things to discuss?
<GridCube> isnt for packaging?
<charlie-tca> GridCube: mr_pouit got a handle on that already
<GridCube> oh
<GridCube> okay
<GridCube> :)
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca: knome: thank you for the boot menu and logo "investigations" ;-)
<knome> charlie-tca, with madnick, we'll handle those after the meeting, just some final tweaks for the artwork
<knome> mr_pouit, no problem sir ;)
<charlie-tca> Thank you, knome 
<knome> mr_pouit, i'll let you do the technical part though
<mr_pouit> eww :p
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: you are most welcome. Glad we finally got one
<charlie-tca> madnick, knome : ubuntustudio might want to discuss lightdm themes too
<charlie-tca> They are trying to figure out how to do what you did!
<knome> charlie-tca, probably better to ask madnick about the code
<charlie-tca> I will tell them, if madnick is okay with that?
<madnick> sure
<charlie-tca> Great!
 * astraljava hails charlie-tca re: studio - lightdm
<charlie-tca> yup
<charlie-tca> madnick will be happy to explain what he did
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] ==== Bug Triage & Testing ====
<meetingology> TOPIC: ==== Bug Triage & Testing ====
<charlie-tca> Testing is slow. We need to get on top of it again. We do have a tracker for daily testing at:
<charlie-tca> http://www.google.com/url?q=http://2tu.us/3dmh&usd=2&usg=ALhdy2__BW8olO1HKH4HdYEcAVhIv6zxCw
<astraljava> Yep, thankfully, work slows down a bit, so I'll have more time for that.
<astraljava> ..
<charlie-tca> http://2tu.us/3gn1
<charlie-tca> That's better
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: Do we need a separate bug report for each application giving us fails with the stuff at https://launchpadlibrarian.net/77809901/Captura%20de%20pantalla%20-%20220811%20-%2012%3A22%3A14.png
<Unit193> I have both images now for today
<charlie-tca> We have several apps failing for the same things not updated?
<Olbi> I will try to help with testing from tomorrow :]
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca: it should be a transient issue
<mr_pouit> I think they were updated tomorrow, so maybe they have not propagated to all mirrors?
<charlie-tca> Okay, more reasons to keep up with the daily testing
<mr_pouit> s/tomorrow/today/
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: I get them from main
<charlie-tca> oh, nm
<charlie-tca> We just have to keep checking to see if they fixed this week
<mr_pouit> e.g. https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/oneiric-changes/2011-August/007395.html
<Olbi> where I can get daily images?
<madnick> !topic
<ubottu> Please read the channel topic whenever you enter, as it contains important information. To view it at any time after joining, simply type /topic
<GridCube> i've done tests today
<charlie-tca> Olbi: http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/
<GridCube> this week i can do a few more, everyday hopefully
<charlie-tca> GridCube: updated the spreadsheet?
<GridCube> yes
<Olbi> charlie-tca: thx very much
<charlie-tca> Thanks
<charlie-tca> Olbi: you are welcome
<charlie-tca> Any other questions for testing?
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] ==== Website & Marketing ====
<meetingology> TOPIC: ==== Website & Marketing ====
<charlie-tca> pleia2 and knome : your turn please
<pleia2> website is looking good :)
<pleia2> knome has updates
<knome> charlie-tca, we're forwarding the code to IS today
<charlie-tca> I hear good things!
<knome> charlie-tca, once i get there
<charlie-tca> w00t!
<pleia2> IS will need to do code review for the theme and plugin, hopefully it won't take long
<charlie-tca> hopefully...
<pleia2> once that's done we'll be able to work on the staging server, moving all content over
<charlie-tca> People are expecting more news and information about Xubuntu. Any ideas?
<Olbi> charlie-tca: agree
<knome> try to make the blog more open to new contributors than it is now
<charlie-tca> what blog?
<charlie-tca> the news area?
<knome> well, the xubuntu website "blog"/news
<Olbi> site is good, but it need some local transaltions :]
<knome> yes, as discussed earlier
<knome> pleia2, crap, translations
<knome> pleia2, let's add them later
<charlie-tca> We need to be telling people they can submit articles anytime they want. 
<knome> :)
<charlie-tca> but we won't ever have everyone entitled to upload, I don't think
<Olbi> maybe news about new programs from xfce mailing lists?
<pleia2> we'll need to talk to someone who knows more about translations, I don't know best practices for this
<charlie-tca> Olbi: any idea how to do the translations?
<Olbi> charlie-tca: thinking :)
<Olbi> charlie-tca: what framework is used for site?
<pleia2> wordpress
<knome> pleia2, there is a good plugin for WP for translations
<Olbi> knome: good :]
<pleia2> knome: ah, nice
<charlie-tca> Obvious, I guess... ML should have reminders about articles and where to submit them ?
<Olbi> so we are at home
<knome> pleia2, http://wpml.org/
<Olbi> we need testing page for transaltions
<pleia2> the translations bug report is here, so if people have thoughts: https://bugs.launchpad.net/xubuntu-website/+bug/797600
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 797600 in Xubuntu Website "Impossible to translate the Xubuntu website" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<knome> oh wait, that says "purchase" ? hmm, need to investigate :|
<knome> pleia2, http://wpml.org/purchase/non-profits/ too
<Olbi> xD
<charlie-tca> ..
<charlie-tca> Continuing on then, 
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] ==== Artwork ====
<meetingology> TOPIC: ==== Artwork ====
<charlie-tca> I don't see ochosi back yet. 
<charlie-tca> knome: any update?
<knome> about what exactly?
<charlie-tca> do you know what happened to the greybird updates for Oneiric?
<knome> no
<pleia2> knome: can you add the nonprofit link to the bug report so we remember it?
<charlie-tca> There were some being done, but we seem to have lost them
<knome> pleia2, sure
<pleia2> ty
<charlie-tca> When will ochosi be back?
<Olbi> artwork is great, but I think theme from official Ubuntu is so good :]
<knome> charlie-tca, probably tomorrow for a while. he doesn't have a shell right now, but email works
<charlie-tca> okay
<charlie-tca> worries me that we lost those upgrades to greybird
<knome> they are most probably in github anyway
<charlie-tca> Okay, any other questions / comments for website, marketing, artwork?
<Olbi> I saw in some themes that characters are seen after changing
<Olbi> arent
<charlie-tca> right, knome. I think that is where those of us that got them went
<knome> i'll get the livecd menu image changed
<charlie-tca> anything specific, Olbi ?
<charlie-tca> :)
<Olbi> charlie-tca: I  have to check it one more time to say which
<Olbi> charlie-tca: and what
<charlie-tca> file bugs on the themes that it happens in?
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] === Announcements ===
<meetingology> TOPIC: === Announcements ===
<charlie-tca>  * The next meeting will be on Sunday, 2011-08-28 at 22:00 UTC
<charlie-tca>  * Important dates coming up:
<charlie-tca>   * 11.10 BetaFreeze: Aug 25, 2011 at 21:00 UTC
<charlie-tca>   * User Interface Freeze : August 25, 2011 at 21:00 UTC
<charlie-tca>   * 11.10 Beta1: September 1
<charlie-tca>   * 11.10 Release Date: October 13, 2011
<charlie-tca>   * UDS-P will be in Orlando, Florida the week of October 31 - Nov 4. Please apply for sponsorship by August 24.
<charlie-tca>   * UDS-P information at http://ubuntu-news.org/2011/07/15/ubuntu-developer-summit-sponsorship-now-open-2/
<charlie-tca> two days left to apply for UDS sponsorship
<charlie-tca> Note the UI freeze and beta1 freeze!
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] === Any Other Business ===
<meetingology> TOPIC: === Any Other Business ===
<charlie-tca>  * Blueprints
<charlie-tca>   * We should blueprint at least for default applications
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: I think we should at least blueprint and have one uds session for default apps
<charlie-tca> it would eliminate the time gap we have now deciding what is going to stay and what is going to change
<GridCube> interesting
<Olbi> so when will be official blueprint for 11.10?
<charlie-tca> already
<Olbi> my bad, sorry :P
<charlie-tca> 11.10 will be released in October.
<mr_pouit> if you think so (I'm not sure we've _that_ many apps we want to change, so maybe blueprints are overkill ;-)
<astraljava> I'm guessing charlie-tca referred to next devel cycle.
<charlie-tca> Let's think on it, anyway. It would help get us some recognition from the Ubuntu side of things, too.
<GridCube> oh o/
<GridCube> greybird isnt updated
<GridCube> in oeneric
<charlie-tca> right
<charlie-tca> ochosi will be back tomorrow, hopefully, and can push the updates in to mr_pouit 
<charlie-tca> Olbi: you wanted to discuss abiword?
<GridCube> he might have to check whats happening whit gtk3
<charlie-tca> This is the time for it
<GridCube> i get warnings from it all the time in oneiric
<knome> afaik, the freybird gtk3 theme is still WIP :|
<mr_pouit> (for thursday, we've got to sort out the plymouth 16bit theme fallback, the lightdm greeter, and the greybird update ;p)
<GridCube> I, for one, support abiword
<knome> plymouth and lightdm are ready today
<charlie-tca> madnick: gonna get a new tar file to mr_pouit today?
 * GridCube thinks we shouldnt even pack ristretto
<madnick> charlie-tca: yes
<knome> i don't agree with GridCube. there was a discussion about this earlier, and we decided to keep ristretto.
<madnick> however, since mr_pouit already packaged it, perhaps its better to use send the affected files?
<charlie-tca> ristretto's memory consumption has been fixed now
<GridCube> but it doesnt add up nothing gThumb doesnt do better
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: new complete tar or just the changes?
<GridCube> anyway, thats my opinion
<mr_pouit> madnick: what you prefer
<charlie-tca> Olbi: Why do you think abiword is not good?
<madnick> mr_pouit: okay
<knome> GridCube, there is going to be lots of updates to ristretto soonish, and as it's an "xfce" app, i'd like to prefer it ti gthumb. the improvements won't make it into oneiric, but it's more consistent to keep ristretto for this release too, if we're going to drop gthumb in the next.
<GridCube> okay
<GridCube> i understand that
<GridCube> :)
<knome> good. that was pretty much the only reason to keep ristretto
<charlie-tca> remains to be seen if we want ristretto or gthumb in the lts, I guess
<knome> yes, exactly
<mr_pouit> I've a patch ready to plug some memleaks
<knome> but ristretto should be good :)
<GridCube> if ristretto could add text yes i would choose it over anyother
<charlie-tca> yes, that ristretto developer worked hard to patch the leaks.
<mr_pouit> (I committed it to the debian packaging, but I haven't uploaded yet)
<charlie-tca> GridCube: put in a wishlist for it?
<GridCube> (if it would actually figure out that im opening a folder whit lots of fimages too, it doesnt do that now on oneric)
<charlie-tca> okay, anything else we need / want to discuss?
<GridCube> not from me
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: will those patches make oneiric?
<Olbi> sorry for afk
<charlie-tca> Beta1 is next week! Let's get a good writeup with all the changes for it, please!
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca: yeah, I'll try to upload soon
<Olbi> charlie-tca: Abiword isnt so popular
<charlie-tca> why?
<charlie-tca> Abiword has most of the functionality of openoffice / libreoffice writer
<knome> do we want the glowy logo, or the logo with white and blue on the bootmenu (remember the BG is just pure black)
<charlie-tca> It just takes a lot less memory and drive space
<Olbi> in my work when we print in one year we have only 2 documents good that I know format of this word processor
<Olbi> my mates doesnt know that :P
<knome> white+blue is better for 16bit, because there we don't have the possibility to probe for bitdepth
<Olbi> they know only odf formats
<charlie-tca> knome: probable white+blue then?
<GridCube> Olbi, you can choose to save documents in other formats beside abw
<knome> charlie-tca, okay, good
<Olbi> but it isnt 100% compatybility with ODF :
<charlie-tca> You should be able to save as .odf, can't you?
<charlie-tca> oh, and libreoffice is?
<Olbi> i was checking formating 10 times and allways have problems with it
<knome> if you definitely need to have better support for ODF, it's not too hard to install libreoffice from the repositories
<Olbi> especially when trying edit documents from Writer :)
<charlie-tca> The abiword developers will try to fix those things, if they know about them
<Olbi> but marketing is crap :]
<charlie-tca> marketing is difficult, but that has nothing to do with quality of use
<Olbi> I know that they want better and better, but users prefer app which is more popular and they were teached in school
<charlie-tca> Well, I think we should end the meeting, anyway. We can discuss the pros and cons of abiword outside the meeting
<Olbi> ok, we close taht
<charlie-tca> Um, do they teach anything except microsoft applications in school?
<Unit193> ^^
<Olbi> they teach both MS and LO :D
<charlie-tca> So, a simple "sudo apt-get install libreoffice-writer" should take care of it
<Olbi> no :)
<charlie-tca> why?
<Olbi> you only take english version of it :]
<charlie-tca> Whether we install it or you install it, it is installed
<Olbi> and others plugins and translates u have to search :]
<Olbi> it isnt like Windows version :]
<charlie-tca> so, if it is installed instead of abiword, it is the same, right?
<charlie-tca> This isn't windows, but if you file bugs, things get fixed. Nothing happens if a bug didn't get filed.
<charlie-tca> Thanks, everybody, for participating in the meeting.
<Olbi> do as you want, staying with abiword doesnt help LO be more popular in schools and houses
<charlie-tca> madnick: astraljava wants to talk about lightdm coding
<charlie-tca> Sorry, we are here to market libreoffice.
<knome> are we?
<knome> /part
<knome> :)
<astraljava> Yep, madnick, if you have time, could you skip over to #ubuntustudio-devel, please?
<charlie-tca> That is not for us to do. We would prefer users just use Xubuntu, and if they desire libreoffice, they should install it.
<charlie-tca> yes, knome 
<charlie-tca> thanks
<madnick> astraljava: could i please do it after i fix the plymouth theme? it only take a lil bit
<Olbi> we want all less popular of MS programs :D
<astraljava> madnick: I'm in no hurry. Don't know how falktx has time, but by all means. Thanks!
<charlie-tca> and abiword is not MS. But we are not going to switch applications just to market something else. That is for libreoffice to do, not Xubuntu.
<charlie-tca> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Aug 22 20:19:51 2011 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot . (v 0.1.4)
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2011/xubuntu-devel.2011-08-22-19.02.moin.txt
<madnick> astraljava: ask him, if its super important i could come, but i rather get everything done first :\
<madnick> on plymouth
<charlie-tca> Olbi: I don't think Xubuntu is really interested in trying to market libreoffice. That is a bit outside the goals of the distribution
<GridCube> yes libreoffice is too much for xubuntu
<astraljava> madnick: He says no worries.
<madnick> okay super :)
<astraljava> Thanks a bunch!
<astraljava> charlie-tca: Thanks for the meeting! I'll concentrate on studio stuff for tonight, but will continue testing tomorrow.
<Olbi> thank ypu very much
<charlie-tca> Thanks. Yes, you need to concentrate on studio a bit
<charlie-tca> UI freeze applies to that too, on thursday
<astraljava> Yep.
<charlie-tca> Olbi: you are welcome. feel free to come back if you have more questions.
<charlie-tca> We will meet again on Sunday at 22:00 UTC
<Olbi> I will :D
<charlie-tca> great!
<Olbi> so I try to create some manual abut how to install LO Writer and Calc with all needed extensions :]
<charlie-tca> That would be terrific, too!
<madnick> oh wow that logo is huge
<knome> madnick, just tell me what size you need?
<madnick> knome: same as the plymouths current which is 241x88
<knome> minus the glow?
<madnick> i think so
<knome> okay
<knome> madnick, http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/oneiric_plymouth/logo_16bit.png, better?
<madnick> that works :) but this will take a while it aligns wrong
<madnick> acctually it will take quite a while
<knome> huh?
<knome> :)
<madnick> nothing :)
<knome> oki
<madnick> knome: thing is
<madnick> the original logo is 241x88, anything else will align wrong
 * knome gets back to working on other artwork stuff
<knome> heh
<knome> i can add padding for the new logo too
<knome> but that's so easy you can do it yourself too :)
<madnick> yup
<madnick> ill see if i can do it :)
<knome> hehe;)
<knome> tell me if you need help
<madnick> thats perfect :)
<knome> pushed and proposed merge to get the xubuntu logo updated in the livecd menu
<charlie-tca> Guess I will go shopping
<charlie-tca> Thanks, knome 
<knome> np
<charlie-tca> Assuming everything starts working right, this will be a really good release. All updated artwork, great theme, great website, etc.
<Unit193> charlie-tca: When you have time to waste, ping me? (few questions I would like to have answers to, but not sure what channel or if I should PM to ask :/ )
<knome> Unit193, is it about testing or something else?
<madnick> oh noes
<madnick> thunar died on transfer :(
<knome> madnick, mmh?
<knome> :)
<knome> madnick, just ping me when you've sorted everything else out. i have some improvement suggestions for lightdm :))
<Unit193> knome: It's more about Xubuntu, but.... I don't want to sound like a huge idiot in logged channel (Or even more of one ;P)
<knome> just shoot. there is no stupid questions
<knome> https://code.launchpad.net/~knome/debian-cd/xubuntu-logo/+merge/72497
<Unit193> Yes there are.  What is the point of Xubuntu? What is the reason it exists? It used to be the lightweight one, but it's not exactly lightweight and Lubuntu is much more lightweight (Don't misunderstand, I love Xubuntu and use it, I just don't know what it's goal IS)
<knome> xubuntu is actually getting more light opposed to gnome again
<madnick> meetingology: http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/16bit.tar.gz
<meetingology> madnick: Error: "http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/16bit.tar.gz" is not a valid command.
<madnick> sorry
<madnick> mr_pouit: 
<knome> but that's not the only point, we also strive for userfriendliness and accessibility.
<knome> Unit193, ^
<madnick> knome: lightdm: shot!
<madnick> :D
<madnick> shoot*
<Unit193> knome: True, but I don't know what the updated goal is :/
<knome> madnick, well, ochosi wanted some improvement for the icons on top right, so i'll provide you new versions of those soonish
<madnick> oki :)
<knome> madnick, also, something needs to be done for the log in button
<knome> it's weird being inverted versus everything else
<madnick> :)
<madnick> sure
<madnick> Just give me graphics/ideas :P
<madnick> ok astraljava where was this meeting?
<knome> yeah, i'll have to think about those. just wondered if YOU had something ;)
<madnick> im not sure i can answer something the documentation doesnt
<astraljava> madnick: #ubuntustudio-devel, but stay put, I'm afraid falktx dropped off for some reason
<astraljava> Ahh, there he is again.
<madnick> astraljava: okay, cool, ill join in a sec :)
<madnick> wow im stressed now :)
<knome> welcome to the club
<madnick> :D
<madnick> To make things even worse; i have to give a little talk about raycasting tomorrow, and im prepared 0%, thus: i will not sleep :D
<knome> lol
<madnick> astraljava: i dont understand, they want to change to the default greeter? thats it?
<madnick> </unity>?
<astraljava> madnick: Umm... you guys are not using unity, right?
<madnick> nope
<madnick> We are using a custom :)
<madnick> GTK greeter
<astraljava> Yeah, we don't either.
<astraljava> We need to create a fast one, not too fancy, but something that resembles our existing theme.
<astraljava> We're way behind, I know.
<astraljava> Lots of reasons for that.
<madnick> :)
<madnick> I could link what I've used as reference, but it feels wierd just randomly linking stuff into the channel :)
<astraljava> Oh, no, not at all. Examples are just fine.
<astraljava> We're not expecting you to do that for us. :)
<knome> madnick, guess what? you get more icons where you need the 16bit versions ;)
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/temp/xubuntu/oneiric_lightdm/accessibility_icon_glow.png
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/temp/xubuntu/oneiric_lightdm/shutdown_icon_glow.png
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/temp/xubuntu/oneiric_lightdm/accessibility_icon_16bit.png
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/temp/xubuntu/oneiric_lightdm/shutdown_icon_16bit.png
<madnick> dear god :P
<knome> oh wait
<knome> don't pull those 16bit versions yet
<madnick> knome: before you do any more work, im not 100% sure i will *make* this deadline
<knome> lol
<madnick> 2 days
<madnick> And thats has to be tested and done
<knome> that isn't a lot, the icons are all 32Ã32! 
<knome> and they are just replacements
<knome> you can just change the image files
<knome> i wouldn't want to make you do any more work :)
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/temp/xubuntu/oneiric_lightdm/accessibility_icon_16bit.png
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/temp/xubuntu/oneiric_lightdm/shutdown_icon_16bit.png
<knome> there you go!
<madnick> knome: leave them online please :) ill save them soon, but i need to reboot for a kernel update
<knome> sure
<knome> anything i've uploaded will be there at least all the way up to oneiric release
<knome> unless they are completely useless ;)
<knome> madnick, got an idea for the login button. make the textbox bg's more transparent (and the text maybe a bit lighter than in http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/xubuntu-greeter-draft8.png (if that's the final rev)), then copy the same style to login button, but make the bg less transparent, thus a bit darker
<knome> madnick, as in http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/oneiric_lightdm/shot_20110823.png
<knome> madnick, (forget the arrows)
<madnick> okay
<knome> madnick, and add some more vertical padding to the button. maybe make it twice compared to draft8
<knome> after that, i think we are pretty much done
<knome> oh wait
<knome> did you already make the logo be 16bit in lightdm?
<knome> (when needed)
<knome> because if not, then ignore the 16bit icons too.
<knome> if you are going to do that, then use the icons too.
<knome> short break, brb
<knome> hey vinnl!
<vinnl> Hey knome :)
<charlie-tca> Hello, vinnl 
<vinnl> Hi charlie-tca :)
<charlie-tca> Keeping busy?
<knome> charlie-tca, https://launchpad.net/xubuntu-website-wordpress and it's bzr branch are ready for the review
<vinnl> Here and there, yes :)
<charlie-tca> Terrific, knome 
<charlie-tca> Now if we just get IS to do it quickly, right?
<knome> yep.
<knome> pleia2 is to mail them today
<pleia2> oh yes, I'll do that now :)
<pleia2> voila
<knome> good
<madnick> knome: 
<knome> madnick, 
<madnick> http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/xubuntu-greeter-draft9.png
<madnick> how is that for login button?
<knome> good. now just bump the lightness of the text in the button and the textboxes a bit up!
<madnick> okidokie
<micahg> mr_pouit: so, technically, the definition of oversized changed to 703MB, but the live page wasn't updated, so if we're 300k over 700MB, I think we're ok
#xubuntu-devel 2011-08-23
<Unit193> Has anyone else tested the Live install with the menu item installer?
<Unit193> Alright. The installer doesn't seem to work in the menu
<Unit193> There is a problem with the file /rofs/usr/share/applications/ubiquity-gtkui.desktop where it's supposed to say "Xubuntu 11.10" it has "RELEASE" and here is a comment at the top of the file "# Do not translate the word "Xubuntu 11.10".  It is used as a marker by casper."
<Unit193> Looks like I should file a bug agenst xubuntu-default-settings or ubiquity
<Unit193> But 831716
<Unit193> Sorry, I opened Bug #831716
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 831716 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Ubiquity Fails to load on Xubuntu 11.10" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/831716
<charlie-tca> Unit193: that works the best. It sounds like a translation bug
<charlie-tca> They put notes like that in, and it should have been commentted out, there are probably more than just the one line.
<Unit193> Can't be as the other .desktop files were fine and it was in English :P
<Unit193> I did a diff on those files
<charlie-tca> so that is the only line needs commenting?
<Unit193> That line was commented out in all files, but where it should have said "Xubuntu 11.10" it said "RELEASE"
<charlie-tca> You said it is menu, right? 
<charlie-tca> I see
<charlie-tca> It does install from the desktop icon?
<Unit193> In the menu is correct, but I don't know for sure if it pulls it from /rofs/ as it was also in /usr/share/applications/ .  Desktop worked
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit is from 
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit is from France, he is usually sleeping at 3:30 AM his time
<Unit193> The .desktop file on the desktop was fine :P
<charlie-tca> Okay
<charlie-tca> Thanks for reporting it. I will confirm the bug and set high priority
<Unit193> Let me guess, xubuntu-default-settings was the one I was supposed to file it for
<Unit193> Great! Once you do that, I'll file it in the wiki
<charlie-tca> I am not sure
<charlie-tca> Oh, wiki it anyway. I put mine in as soon as I get the bug number so I don't forget them. 
<charlie-tca> Also, I go through them weekly, to see what has changed
<Unit193> I forgot and was going to put it as confirmed after you did so
<charlie-tca> okay
<charlie-tca> It just might take me a bit to get there
<Unit193> And now I spammed you and mic|ahg
<charlie-tca> That's okay. I get every change to the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu part of the wiki
<charlie-tca> and every single bug report, too
<charlie-tca> If it mentions Xubuntu in the bug report, I will get an email
<charlie-tca> oh, and every package for accessibility, too
<Unit193> Yeah, I guessed. I try not to do the dirty trick of marking it trivial to avoid mailing people :P
 * charlie-tca follows about 7000 bugs, but only has about 1250 he cares about
<Unit193> Eh, I follow a few pages, my wiki page is one of them :P
<charlie-tca> for those subscribed, it doesn't matter what gets marked, they will see it.
<charlie-tca> Sometimes I think I got too much stuff going through
<Unit193> I did that once to see if the people that are subscribed by default would still get it, and they didn't seem to :D (Personal wiki page that I don't keep up :P )
<knome> charlie-tca, just had a talk with ochosi. he made some improvements to greybird-gtk3 today, and he's going to do a "release" tomorrow, even if some things might be suboptimal
<charlie-tca> Thaks
<charlie-tca> thanks, too
<charlie-tca> I am going away. Too tired to keep going now. 
 * Unit193 forgot to update GDoc yet again :P
<micahg> mr_pouit: also, I'm hoping to get a little space back with the dh_python2 conversion, but haven't had time for that yet (needs FFes, see u-d-a)
<mr_pouit> micahg: ah, if the new limit is 703M, then I guess it's ok
<mr_pouit> the daily mail I receive still tells me it's oversized though
<ochosi> micahg: ping
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<madnick_> morning
<ochosi> hi
<ochosi> just released a 0.2.2 version of greybird, which boasts a completely rebased gtk3 theme
<ochosi> would be happy if some of you could test it
<madnick_> i can :
<ochosi> didn't find so many gtk3 apps and the time pressure was rather high, so there might still be quite a few pitfalls
<madnick_> :) 
<ochosi> k, thanks madnick_ 
<charlie-tca> ochosi: UI freeze 25th at 21:00 UTC. We don't have the greybird changes in yet
<ochosi> charlie-tca: i know, i already talked to mr_pouit about it
<charlie-tca> ochosi: welcome back. I hope you had a good holiday
<charlie-tca> Okay
<ochosi> thanks, in fact it was more a work-related trip than holidays
<ochosi> but yeah, i was gone for quite a while
<ochosi> didn't have the UI freeze in mind so it all was a bit of a rush today
<charlie-tca> Sorry
<charlie-tca> Just kind of disappointed to see the changes weren't there yet.
<ochosi> so it's not all 100% as i would've wanted it
<ochosi> you have to download the current version directly from git if you want to test it: https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/archives/v0.2.2
<charlie-tca> I can do that
<ochosi> ok thanks
<ochosi> not sure that bugs can be fixed before the freeze anyway, but it's still worth knowing
<charlie-tca> True. We have a good theme now, if it shows too many bugs, maybe wait for P ?
<ochosi> actually the gtk3 version of the theme that i did yesterday night and today is definitely better than what is there now
<ochosi> so that's really worth taking into oneiric
<charlie-tca> Great!
<ochosi> bugfixes might actually be possible even after the UI freeze
<ochosi> so i guess it depends on what is considered a bug in a theme
<madnick> hm
<charlie-tca> Yes, that is true, too. If we can report, we can call it a bug, can't we?
<madnick> its a zip file
<madnick> But "archive not supported" O_o
<ochosi> madnick: you can run "unzip" from shell
<ochosi> (i had the same problem with file-roller in oneiric btw)
<ochosi> charlie-tca: yeah, that was what i thought. "visual bugs"
<madnick> ochosi: i just put this with my thems?
<ochosi> madnick: yes, maybe rename it to "greybird-git" so you can compare the old and the new version
<madnick> okay
<madnick> :
<madnick> it got a little darker?
<ochosi> maybe the toolbar and the menubar aren't the same anymore
<madnick> oh scrollbars look alot better
<ochosi> but that's because of the engine switch from adwaita to unico
<ochosi> yeah, the scrollbars should match now, i mean no diff between gtk2 and 3
<madnick> ill use this theme on this machine and see what happens, if i encounter anything odd :P
<ochosi> k
<madnick> Also, I have to face the fact that; LightDM greeter won't be finished in time :\
<madnick> So I guess, change background on the normal gtk greeter + add new icons into the UI file?
<ochosi> what's the problem with the lightdm theme, the last screenshot i saw looked ok?
<madnick> yeah :) however, it wont run in lightdm --test-mode, so there is a bug somewhere (unless --test-mode is bugged :)) 
<madnick> So I could install it on a real machine and see if it works
<madnick> But even if it does work then, i still need to write alot of code still
<GridCube> madnick, want me to test it?
<madnick> Its just not gonna be possible in 1 day
<madnick> GridCube: not yet :) ill give it 2 hours more, then we can see if i stumbled upon the bug
<madnick> I dont want you to install something that might break it badly
<GridCube> :P virtual machine don't matter
<madnick> oh :)
<ochosi> i have a real install of oneiric, so if you feel it's ok let me know
<GridCube> oh, real machine, I use 10.04, can't try that
<GridCube> ochosi, :D hello
<charlie-tca> madnick: okay, we can run with just the lightdm-gtk-greeter if that is the case. Let's get the new theme in for P .
<GridCube> how was your vacations?
<charlie-tca> madnick: what about leaving out the 16bit stuff and just going with what you had already?
<ochosi> GridCube: fine, i was actually teaching at a university summer academy, so no real vacations ;)
<GridCube> :P
<GridCube> summer academy in winter, lol
<ochosi> winter?
<GridCube> south hemisphere
<ochosi> i don't know where you live, but it's summer here...
<madnick> charlie-tca: in lightdm? 16 bit stuff would only take 10 minutes, its more about getting it working at all in testmode :(
<charlie-tca> ochosi: not limited to visual bugs... If they kick an error in .xsession-errors, we can still report a bug
<ochosi> GridCube: right :)
<charlie-tca> madnick: does testmode have to work? I can release note that it is broken, if the greeter works in real modes
<ochosi> charlie-tca: yeah, also there might be gtk-warnings etc. i still have a few of those unresolved things that are very tricky to debug and it's not clear where the bug is (visually not always apparent)
<ochosi> yeah, also: if only the test-mode is broken we can fix that after the UI freeze, because it's a bug then
<ochosi> same goes for real modes in fact
<madnick> charlie-tca: give me 2 hours :P I will try everything I can
<charlie-tca> Okay. 
<charlie-tca> I consider testmode a minor bug. We really need real modes to work, though.
<GridCube> but he can't know if they work if he cant test them
<charlie-tca> yup
<charlie-tca> madnick, ochosi : you both got errors trying to extract greybird using thunar and archive manager?
<charlie-tca> Mine using oceiric worked
<charlie-tca> wonder if we are missing a "unzip" app again?
<ochosi> charlie-tca: the error was that file-roller didn't seem to recognize the zip-format
<ochosi> no, unzip was installed
<ochosi> so i guess it's a file-roller issue
<charlie-tca> Okay, I will dig deeper later. I need to run some image tests today
<charlie-tca> How do I know if I am running gtk2 or gtk3 theme now?
<mr_pouit> you'll be running both, depending on the application
<charlie-tca> okay
<charlie-tca> ochosi: only thing I see that really bothers me with the new theme is the white on light gray for highlighting
<charlie-tca> It has wrong contrast, which makes it hard to see. I have to squint to read what is in white text.
<ochosi> highlight where?
<charlie-tca> looking at thunar
<charlie-tca> it highlights the directory or file selected?
<ochosi> yes, but it's white on blue, just like everywhere else (other lists i mean)
<ochosi> or do you mean something else?
<charlie-tca> the blue it too light for the white text
<ochosi> oh noes, we had that discussion a long while ago, can't you remember?
<ochosi> but feel free to send me a screenshot, so that i can see whether it's a bug
<charlie-tca> really?
<charlie-tca> So, it's my eyes?
<ochosi> yeah, we kinda settled on this blue back then because you said it's reasonably readable
<charlie-tca> Okay
<charlie-tca> No, I can't remember... I am old and braindead now
<ochosi> heh, well don't worry, i can ;)
<charlie-tca> but as long as you remember, we don't need to rehash it :)
<ochosi> no anyway, it's a bit late now to change things drastically :)
<ochosi> k, i'm off for now, feel free to ping me if you come across anything noteworthy wrt greybird
<madnick> http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/lightdm-gtk-greeter-changes.tar.gz
<madnick> http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/changes.png
<ochosi> known issues: gtk-scale, progressbar (those are not the same in gtk2 and 3)
<Olbi> hello
<Olbi> where I can mark passed tests of xubuntu oneriric daily?
<madnick> dunno if thats accepable, but I guess its better than pink :)
<charlie-tca> madnick: that's what we get? It looks lioke it will work for me 
<madnick> charlie-tca: unfortunetly, because: There is simply not enough time to fix the theme in progress
<madnick> The brand new one
<madnick> :(
<charlie-tca> Olbi: http://2tu.us/3gn1
<charlie-tca> madnick: That will work. the tar above is for mr_pouit ?
<madnick> Yes, I suppose, or if someone like to test it
<charlie-tca> It's way better than pink, yes :)
<madnick> it uses the new icons
<madnick> And the xubuntu-icon.svg
<madnick> And the background + slightly larger prompt
<madnick> thats it
<Olbi> <charlie-tca>: thx
<mr_pouit> shouldn't theme-name by Greybird (instead of Ambiance), and font-name Droid Sans (instead of Ubuntu)?
<mr_pouit> s/by/be/
<charlie-tca> in lightdm?
<madnick> Sure, I did not change anything like that
<madnick> Did not occur to me
<mr_pouit> yes, in lightdm
<charlie-tca> All he did is throw the background in, and icons, I think
<madnick> yeah
<madnick> Im sort of disappointed in myself for not being able to be quicker with the new theme :(
<Olbi> I wonder if it is possible to change icon on desktop, I mean disks icon from now to computer looks likes:]
<charlie-tca> Olbi: no, those are fixed by the theme
<charlie-tca> Maybe changing icon sets will change them, but it will change all the icons
<mr_pouit> I don't really know how I'm supposed to use these files though
<mr_pouit> I really can't replace the ones from lightdm-gtk-greeter
<charlie-tca> madnick: mr_pouit needs some help with the tar files
<madnick> okay
<madnick> mr_pouit: how come we cannot do that?
<madnick> you*
<madnick> Should I fork off another lightdm-gtk-greeter
<madnick> and rename it?
<madnick> In case we need the original
<mr_pouit> madnick: I can use dpkg-divert, but it's ugly, and anyway will affect everyone using the gtk greeter with xubuntu-artwork installed, which is not nice either
<madnick> Oh
<madnick> So what is the best solution? Fork the greeter and ship as another greeter?
<mr_pouit> and lightdm-gtk-greeter will only look for its config in -DCONFIG_FILE=\""$(configdir)/lightdm-gtk-greeter.conf"\", so I can't create another greeter reusing this binary
<mr_pouit> I'm afraid we've to fork it yeah
<madnick> okidokie
<mr_pouit> grmbl, this will probably require a freeze exception =]
<madnick> how come? 
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: skaet will approve it
<charlie-tca> I gave notice just before the freeze we would need one for lightdm
<mr_pouit> madnick: it needs its own package
<madnick> oh
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: been advised by cjwatson to wait on the "maybe-ubiquity"  change until after oneiric releases
<mr_pouit> yeah, this is wise
<charlie-tca> weechat is doing things when I change themes; it just closed on me
<GridCube> charlie-tca, want me to delete the form made sheet and the form?
<charlie-tca> There's no way we can make it work, huh?
<charlie-tca> It just doesn't want to cooperate and let us see the tests to do/done, is there?
<GridCube> i can do some choosing things, but it wont take information from the sheet and show it on the form, no
<GridCube> i can make it ask you if you asked on the irc channel, or what day tests you are meant to do
<GridCube> but not see the tests already done, unless...
<GridCube> unless i like people to the form and they see by themselfs
<GridCube> s/like/link
<charlie-tca> yeah, may as well update it manually then
<GridCube> yes
<knome> GridCube, let's move the conversation here...
<knome> we don't have pulseaudio anymore, or why isn't it mentioned?
<GridCube> i did an audio questio
<GridCube> its number 2
<GridCube> or 1
<knome> i know, (#1), but id doesn't mention pulseaudio, only alsa
<GridCube> but i did it whit alsa, not pulseadio
<GridCube> i never used pulseaudio so i don't know 
<knome> the problem before was many times pulseaudio
<knome> charlie-tca, have we removed pulseaudio?
<GridCube> i actually did sudo apt-get purge pulseadio
<knome> right. that is what i'd propose as the last effort.
<knome> gstreamer*pulseaudio too
<charlie-tca> no, we haven't. But we do not get near the questions about it, either, that we were seeing
<knome> okay.
<GridCube> sorry gotta go buy some stuff
<knome> GridCube, what's your emila?
<knome> email
<knome> or shall i just use the ML for improvement suggestions
<knome> (i'll do that)
<charlie-tca> hm, new plymouth screen on desktop image looks great!
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: colors are screwed up bad on the live cd installer
<knome> charlie-tca, but the logo is still the old one?
<charlie-tca> nothing to do with logo
<charlie-tca> go to live session, click on install xubuntu, colors are screwed
<knome> okay, could have if you were talking about the same menu
<knome> right
<knome> that's different, yes
<charlie-tca> Unit193: 64bit live session, install from menu works
<GridCube> knome, my mail is gridcube@gmail.com
<GridCube> (or @yahoo.com.ar, or @hotmail.com)
<knome> i already sent mail to the devel mailing list :)
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: no bug filed for colors
<GridCube> :D
<charlie-tca> yet, at least
<charlie-tca> going to need a bug on the colors, some fields go black text on black background when clicked
<Olbi> better testing on normal comp or vbox is enough?
<charlie-tca> VBox is great!
<charlie-tca> We accept tests on anything you can use. Please don't mess up your installation you need to test oneiric, though.
<GridCube> knome, about proofreading, my native language aint english, i will need someone to do that
<knome> GridCube, sure :)
<knome> charlie-tca, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-docs/+bug/332687
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 332687 in xubuntu-docs (Ubuntu) "If possible, Xubuntu browser start page should include Xubuntu logo rather than the Ubuntu logo" [Wishlist,In progress]
<knome> charlie-tca, is that still valid for oneiric?
<charlie-tca> as in, you plan to write a firefox start page ?
<charlie-tca> too late to do that now
<knome> charlie-tca, i don't for oneiric, but if the bug is still valid, i'll do that for O+1
<charlie-tca> Okay, start writing then
<knome> charlie-tca, is it?
<charlie-tca> We still use the Ubuntu start page
<knome> okay
<charlie-tca> We also should have xubuntu.org bookmarked in it
<knome> yeah.
<Olbi> GridCube: what is your native language?:P
<charlie-tca> knome: don't know that the referrences given in that bug are still valid. I believe the page and css have moved
<knome> yup, i believe so too, but i just assigned to myself so i don't forget to investigate
<GridCube> Olbi, spaÃ±ish
<Olbi> :P
<knome> <span>ish
<GridCube> :P i like my Ã±
<GridCube> its pretty representative of my language
<GridCube> i feel it need to be showed more, its a crusade
<knome> heh
<charlie-tca> Unit193: will try the i386 desktop image to confirm the installer bug
<Olbi> I like my polish language :]
<Olbi> Åº, Å¼, Ä, Ä, Ä, Å, Ã³, Å :D
<GridCube> what if i open the file so anyone can edit it?
<knome> GridCube, that would be good.
<GridCube> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HyhsMPDyyN-mRWRujfZX3JuKX9aWFQPWsxMEiJX99gQ/edit?hl=es
<GridCube> done
<GridCube> well i have classes soon  :D today is Reference and Information Services day :P
<GridCube> :) see you 
<Olbi> jockey-back-end crashed here too :D
<knome> charlie-tca, had a talk with chrisccoulson and he said it's not going to be easy, at least, but we scheduled some more time to discuss about it friday
<charlie-tca> I didn't get the oneconf crash this time, yet
<charlie-tca> knome: I knew it wasn't gonna be easy, but is it doable?
<charlie-tca> with firefox changing things so fast now?
<Olbi> super, freezing when preparing to install from LiveCD :D
<knome> charlie-tca, it's not about firefox complexity really, it's more about the ubufox package doing some not-always-so-stable things already, and this would kind of be one more issue
<Olbi> it's normal to freeze during preparing install?
<charlie-tca> it figures. One more thing to try and make work
<knome> charlie-tca, it is doable, but chrisccoulson wasn't exactly cheering for it.
<charlie-tca> okay
<charlie-tca> Olbi: freezing as in trying to type, or just moving through the installer, or where?
<Olbi> charlie-tca: when you choose checkbox: updating during install and install 3rd party software
<charlie-tca> yup
<charlie-tca> it freezes and then goes again, then freezes again
<Olbi> cool :) nice feature :P
<charlie-tca> heh, at least it does go again, right?
<Olbi> no, i have to end this and start again
<Olbi> when you ddint check any box it works good
<charlie-tca> give it time, it should unfreeze in a few minutes
<Olbi> no, I had w8 5 minuts :D
<Olbi> 2 times :]
<charlie-tca> wow
<Olbi> now install :]
<charlie-tca> okay, maybe it is a slow connection?
<Olbi> 12 Mb/s :]
<charlie-tca> faster than mine
<charlie-tca> Mine will freeze, then go, then freeze, then go. It just takes about twice as long
<Olbi> I install without and 3rd software whole disk
<Olbi> timezone isnt working properly
<charlie-tca> not detected properly or choosing manually?
<Olbi> automated isnt' works, manula good
<charlie-tca> Olbi: probably need to file a bug for timezones; boot the live session and file it using 
<charlie-tca> ubuntu-bug ubiquity
<charlie-tca> in a terminal
<Olbi> ok, w8 only when system installs
<charlie-tca> Oneconf crash seems to be fixed today!@
<charlie-tca> too soon, apparently takes longer to crash today
<knome> updated the top 10 doc
<Olbi> omg, lightdm is awfull :]
<charlie-tca> huh?
<Olbi> it looks like logon screen in win98 :D
<davmor2> Olbi: are you looking at the right one?  I see a really snazzy version on Ubuntu complete with rotating users etc
<Olbi> I have daily oneiric from today 10:50 am
<charlie-tca> Well, I don't remember what win98 used. I got a blue background, with a centered user list here
<davmor2> charlie-tca: Ouch I'd of thought you would of poached the unity one and modded :(
<charlie-tca> and it is a whole lot better then the unity greeter in black
<davmor2> charlie-tca: or made your own pretty one
<charlie-tca> we couldn't get it done in time. Since lightdm changed so many times, we have only had since featurefreeze to try and do anything,.
<charlie-tca> no docs, no robert to ask, makes it really hard to cusomize
<davmor2> charlie-tca: arse monkeys
<Olbi> but gdm looks better when you logged in that lightdm now
<charlie-tca> yup
<charlie-tca> we tried really hard. 
<charlie-tca> gdm is not going to be used
<Olbi> I know it :]
<charlie-tca> we are tired of fighting with it
<Olbi> spox :]
<Olbi> is it easier to change than gdm?
<charlie-tca> If they don't screw us up anymore, we can have a really nice lightdm screen for the next release
<charlie-tca> much easier
<charlie-tca> gdm we have to do a lot of customizing just to make it work
<davmor2> Olbi: from what the devs have said it's been really nice to work with :(
<charlie-tca> However, change still takes time to do, and with a whole week or so, it just wasn't enough
<Olbi> :)
<charlie-tca> Ubuntu got four months or so, we got a whole week
<davmor2> charlie-tca: you make is sound like a challenge ;)
<charlie-tca> sorry, I didn't mean to :)
<charlie-tca> I think the lightdm fiasco upset me more than most things do.
<davmor2> charlie-tca: put some spin on it, in using lightdm we have made it as light as possible to get you to your desktop as quickly as possible, then it's a feature ;)
<charlie-tca> heh, hadn't thought of it that way.
<charlie-tca> I guess I just have to give it some thought 
<davmor2> haha
<charlie-tca> 5.8 earthquake in eastern United States today?
<charlie-tca> Unit193: confirming the installer bug on i386 desktop images only. Doesn't affect 64bit images
<Olbi> is it possible to remove Logout from Top right icon or change position with shutdown?
<Unit193> charlie-tca: Alright, thanks. Mine has been marked as a dupe of one filed a few hours after it, didn't know you could do that :P
<Unit193> But I don't really care
<charlie-tca> I see that, and commented on the other bug too. They can not use the live session to install, but I can by clicking on the icon
<charlie-tca> Olbi: no, at this late date, changes can not be done anymore. 
<Olbi> I have bug of ubiquti :P
<Olbi> error while try to install
<Olbi> when check box with 3rd party soft
<charlie-tca> got it
<charlie-tca> bug 831519
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 831519 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "ubiquity crashed with DBusException in call_blocking(): org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name :1.60 was not provided by any .service files" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/831519
<charlie-tca> the number after name : will change, but the bug is the same
<Olbi> testing autoresize partitioning :]
<Olbi> next will be 32 bit LiveCD
<Olbi> all works good :)
<charlie-tca> we be banging heads soon, huh?
<charlie-tca> Olbi: thanks for testing these! It is always good to make sure we cover enough, and the bugs are not just one person.
<Olbi> hehe :D
<Olbi> charlie-tca: what you mean with incorrect colors on installer?
<charlie-tca> The headers are in pink, if I click on options, the text and background go black
<charlie-tca> The Continue block is in gray, but the rest are in bright white
<charlie-tca> Did you file a bug on timezones?
<charlie-tca> seems not to work at all here now
<Olbi> yep, noly manula works :P
<Olbi> auto is crashed
<charlie-tca> Oh, maybe the freeze instead...
<charlie-tca> See, this really is fun :)
<Olbi> i dont have freeze if I dont check boxes :D
<charlie-tca> yeah, well, you know, gotta try it
<charlie-tca> For some odd reason, the continue, back , etc boxes are reversed in colors
<charlie-tca> Does autologin work now?
<Olbi> i will check this one more time
<Olbi> didnt check it yet
<Olbi> only manual pass
<charlie-tca> checked it this time
<Olbi> ok
<Olbi> how to login into livecd after logout?
<Olbi> what are pass?
<charlie-tca> user = ubuntu
<charlie-tca> password = nothing, just hit enter
<charlie-tca> auto-login fails on installations
<charlie-tca> but, if we get things working, we can work on that
<Olbi> you have right with colors
<Olbi> pink characters on top
<Olbi> and button Next doesnt have arrow
<charlie-tca> lol
<charlie-tca> That's okay, I will take the pink if we fix the real issues
<Olbi> lol, alternate install corectly choose my timezone :D
<charlie-tca> then it is an ubiquity bug, they use different installers for alternate and desktop images
<charlie-tca> Okay, now that things are settled down a bit, I guess I can go for a walk.
<Olbi> testing 32 bit LiveCD
<Olbi> ok, done, I am too sleepy, altarnate 32 bit only left, but I think its same like 64 bit :)
#xubuntu-devel 2011-08-24
<ochosi> hi everyone, any more feedback on greybird gtk3?
<Olbi> hello :)
<Olbi> when will be daily iso's?
<Olbi> ok, let's start testing next daily iso :D
<charlie-tca> Good morning
* ChanServ changed the topic of #xubuntu-devel to: Xubuntu Development | Oneiric Ocelot Feature Freeze in effect | #xubuntu for support | Schedule: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricReleaseSchedule | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu | Xubuntu Community meeting 2011-08-28 at 22:00 UTC | Oneiric Alternate images are building
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: one for you to look at, please - Bug 832794
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 832794 in xfce4-smartpm-plugin (Ubuntu Oneiric) "xfce4-smartpm-plugin version 0.4.0-0ubuntu4 failed to build in oneiric (dup-of: 829513)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/832794
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 829513 in xfce4-smartpm-plugin (Ubuntu) "FTBFS with libnotify 0.7" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/829513
<charlie-tca> well, never mind. It appears you are too fast for me
* ChanServ changed the topic of #xubuntu-devel to: Xubuntu Development | Oneiric Ocelot Feature Freeze in effect | #xubuntu for support | Schedule: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricReleaseSchedule | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu | Xubuntu Community meeting 2011-08-28 at 22:00 UTC | Oneiric Alternate images are available at 14:25 UTC
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu alternate images just posted; please sync or download now to test them
<Olbi> i done it, ned only testing now
 * madnick current have 18 Xubuntu Virtual machines O_o
<charlie-tca> Olbi: if you done it early, you don't have today's alternate images
<Olbi> I have now LiveCD
<Olbi> 64 bits
<charlie-tca> Okay
<charlie-tca> The desktop images worked today, but the alternate images had to be done again
<Olbi> madnick: for what so many?:P
 * charlie-tca only has about 80 VBox machines set up
<madnick> Ive been doing alot of testing :) Mostly for Plymouth and LightDM
<madnick> They changed stuff almost every day for a while :P
<charlie-tca> which reminds me, I have to remove some old releases again, my VBox partition is 90% full
<charlie-tca> OTOH, my oneiric is giving me headaches. I have to ssh in to run some commands to reboot the machine, or it hangs with no mouse or keyboard.
<madnick> todays image?
<charlie-tca> no, my install I had since alpha1
<charlie-tca> Just the machine I use daily
<madnick> oh :
<charlie-tca> The new installs don't seem to have that problem
<charlie-tca> I think I will just reinstall for beta1, it should be a good time for it now
<madnick> Beta 1 is tonight right?
<charlie-tca> no, freeze is tomorrow, but beta1 won't be out for another week. We start testing it Tuesday
<madnick> okay :)
<charlie-tca> This weekend images are the first ones that might be used for beta1
<ochosi> madnick: how did the lightdm stuff go yesterday?
<madnick> ochosi: :(
<ochosi> that means "not well"?
<madnick> ochosi: no time to finish, we are using a slighly modified version of gtk-example-greeter
<ochosi> screener?
<madnick> 1 sec
<madnick> http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/changes.png
<ochosi> hm right
<ochosi> it's a bit boring but then again better than nothing
<madnick> + droid sans
<madnick> Yeah
<ochosi> a pity you couldn't make those grey areas translucent black
<madnick> yup
<knome> huh, we're back at *that*?
<knome> what happened?
<ochosi> hey knome 
<madnick> UI Freeze
<knome> right..
<madnick> But 
<knome> but is the other lightdm theme ready anyway?
<knome> so, we might get it in with FFe?
<madnick> No its not ready, thats the problem
<knome> what's not ready in it?
<madnick> It would take quite some time
<madnick> Alot of stuff :) the theming might be close to ready
<ochosi> even applying the theming of the mockups to the gdm-greeter layout would make it look a lot better
<charlie-tca> There won't be an FFe for UI freeze
<madnick> But there is some stuff, like handling sessions, autologin, and list users etc
<madnick> We'll get them next release :P
<madnick> Perhaps could've finished it im time, if real life didn't need me 4 hours per day almost every day :(
<charlie-tca> Well, let's get it done in time for alpha1. That gives time to make improvements!
<Unit193> Is it going to be uploaded to a PPA for Oneiric so you can install it later?
<knome> SRU?
<charlie-tca> Let's wait until we actually have it working before trying to SRU it, huh?
<knome> yes master
<charlie-tca> Get it working in the development release to Backport or SRU it to Xubuntu 11.10. 
<charlie-tca> Oh! That means waiting until the next development release, doesn't it?
<mr_pouit> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=639151
<ubottu> Debian bug 639151 in lightdm "Local privilege escalation" [Grave,Open]
<mr_pouit> if it's not fixed in 0.9.3, I'm sure the release & security teams must be very happy right now
<ochosi> uuh, nice...
<mr_pouit> greybird 0.2.2 uploaded
<ochosi> mr_pouit: ty
<charlie-tca> Didn't we file something like that a long time back, and get told it was not going to be fixed?
<charlie-tca> (long time back == this cycle)
<mr_pouit> security issues? no, we didn't file anything like that afaik
<mr_pouit> 16bit plymouth theme uploaded
<charlie-tca> I thought we had one about lightdm screwing up with pam
<charlie-tca> oh, well
<charlie-tca> great about the plymouth theme!
<mr_pouit> now, /away to install my new hard drive
<charlie-tca> Good luck and have fun
<micahg> charlie-tca: aisleriot is back in the archive, should I reseed it for beta 1?
<charlie-tca> If it works, sure
 * micahg will test it
<micahg> late tonight :)
<charlie-tca> Hell, I can run updates and see if it is there?
<micahg> charlie-tca: if you can, that would be great, just leave me a ping with the info, will be afk for a while
<charlie-tca> micahg: how do I force it to upgrade?
<charlie-tca> Installed: 1:3.0.2-0ubuntu1
<charlie-tca>   Candidate: 1:3.1.1-0ubuntu1
<charlie-tca> nm
<charlie-tca> it is in upgrades now
<charlie-tca> will run it and see
<charlie-tca> micahg: working now. Let'
<charlie-tca> let's go ahead and seed it again
<micahg> charlie-tca: k, will do later, that'll pick up the platform seed changes as well (new printer drivers)
<charlie-tca> Okay
<charlie-tca> Thanks for watching for that
<ochosi> hey micahg 
<ochosi> i have some gmusicbrowser/freeze-related questions for you if you have time
<micahg> ochosi: if it's quick, I'm about to leave for several hours
<micahg> will be back around 12:00 UTC
<micahg> oops
<micahg> 0:00 :)
<ochosi> ok, i'll make it very quick:
<ochosi> new gmb-release is due in the next two weeks, will that be early enough for you to get the packages into oneiric?
<micahg> ochosi: UI freeze is today :(
<micahg> err, tomorrow
<ochosi> right, but it's not really an UI issue, is it?
<micahg> ochosi: I have no idea what changes you're making, if it's bug fix only, sure
<ochosi> micahg: hm, nah, not really bugfix-only
<ochosi> micahg: our ppa (shimmer) contains the latest gmusicbrowser from git (which is stable) plus the modifications we already have in natty
<ochosi> would you consider simply pushing that package to oneiric?
<ochosi> i know that usually you tend to get packages through debian first, but since there is no release atm, there's nothing to update in debian
<micahg> ochosi: well, I suggest preparing an FFe bug then, if you get an ACK, I can push it in, we could do a snapshot first then release, but feature freeze was 2 weeks ago
<ochosi> micahg: right, i see. i guess i was absent at the wrong time
<ochosi> micahg: k, then let's skip it
<micahg> ochosi: we can push the snapshot through Debian also (happens often), but if a release is expected, I'd push to snapshot to Ubuntu, then the release through Debian (assuming we're before beta 2)
<ochosi> yes, that's what i thought would be ok
<micahg> ochosi: we still need a freeze exception
<micahg> !ffe | ochosi 
<ubottu> ochosi: Feature Freeze Exception. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess for the freeze exception process.
<ochosi> micahg: yeah, i know, not sure i have the time to deal with that this week
<ochosi> micahg: i already spent my "foss-time" trying to get greybird's gtk3 into shape
<ochosi> but anyway, thanks for the heads up, i guess we can get a new version more easily in oneiric+1
<micahg> ochosi: well, we'll be frozen next week for beta 1, so when you get a chance, you can file for it, I"ll hold off until there's an ACK though
<micahg> ochosi: we can always get the new version in Debian and sync right after release, but if it's important, there's still time for exceptions
<ochosi> micahg: ok, well sure there are a lot of bugfixes, but also a few new features...
<ochosi> micahg: k, i have taken enough of your time (and in fact i have to leave now too)
<micahg> ochosi: so you can try for the exception, ubuntustudio is also affected BTW
<ochosi> micahg: why? are they also shipping gmusicbrowser?
<micahg> ochosi: apparently
<ochosi> micahg: interesting, had no idea they did
<ochosi> micahg: ok, i'm off now, i'll ping you if i get to filing the FFe bug
<micahg> ochosi: sorry, usually not in a rush, but I'm actually off today
<astraljava> Alright, finally got the seeds in order for Studio, time to test Xubuntu images.
<charlie-tca> nice
<astraljava> So, desktop 32-bit manual partitioning it is.
<astraljava> Hehe, last I zsynced that image on this machine was early June. Target was still 19.7% complete, though. :D
<astraljava> #################### 100.0% 10097.2 kBps DONE
<astraljava> Gotta love this connection.
<charlie-tca> no, I don't. I kinda of hate it
<charlie-tca> I get a whopping 150kBps on a good fast day
<charlie-tca> hm, This just seems so wrong :(
<charlie-tca> 171.58 minutes ETA to sync edubuntu 64bit
<charlie-tca> Sure glad I have 46% anyway ;)
<charlie-tca> Now I remember why I quit syncing those images
<Unit193> I found I got much faster speeds when I just downloaded the entire file :P
<charlie-tca> nope
<charlie-tca> took me like 8 hours last time I tried that
<Unit193> Odd... I stopped doing that because I thought it would be harder on their servers
<charlie-tca> what?
<charlie-tca> download, zsync or rsync?
<Unit193> Full download
<Unit193> I'm now using dl-ubuntu-test-iso
<charlie-tca> zsync uses the client to do the work (your computer), rsync uses the server, and download uses server, I think
<Unit193> "By default, the script will attempt to use zsync if it is available as it uses fewer resources on the cdimage server."
<charlie-tca> right, zsync uses the client resources instead of the server resources
<Unit193> I gathered that actually ;)
<charlie-tca> But I think downloads use the server more, right?
<Unit193> More b/w at the very least
<astraljava> I'd think [z|r]syncs are harder on cpu, but the full download on disks. Does it matter in Canonical's infra? Doubt it.
<Unit193> Well, I do notice lag on the computer, but just typing "xubuntu" in terminal makes it worth it ;P
<charlie-tca> We have been asked to use zsync whenever possible to help the server load
<charlie-tca> They need to upgrade the servers yet
<Unit193> You notice Lubuntu hasn't been built for some time now?
<charlie-tca> no, I didn't. Want me to tell what is wrong with it?
<Unit193> ummm... If you happen to know I would love to know
<charlie-tca> console-setup : Conflicts: console-terminus
<charlie-tca> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/livefs-build-logs/oneiric/lubuntu/20110823/livecd-20110823-i386.out
<charlie-tca> Devs have to fix it
<charlie-tca> You can't have both console-setup and console-terminus seeded. They won't work together
<Unit193> Alright, I wonder if I sould ping him...
<charlie-tca> I just gave it to gilir
<Unit193> PM'd? He is online now at support and offtopic (I'll stop now, thanks)
<charlie-tca> no, he was in #ubuntu-release asking
<charlie-tca> heh, they say great minds think alike :)
<astraljava> 32-bit desktop install fails miserably :-/
<charlie-tca> really?
<charlie-tca> from the desktop icon?
<Unit193> astraljava: Anytype I would guess? I can try Desktop or Alt
<astraljava> No, from the first menu.
<astraljava> I'm booting into the live session now, and try to install from there.
<charlie-tca> Does it have a new logo in the menu?
<knome> i'm afraid it shouldn't
<astraljava> I'm gonna have to see the old and the new side-by-side, it's been a while since I last tested.
<knome> the merge is still waiting for review by colin watson
<charlie-tca> old is the circle of friends, new is the mouse
<charlie-tca> I think I am trying to follow too many builds now
<charlie-tca> Unit193: if lubuntu doesn't build, let me know. I will push for the re-spin if possible
<charlie-tca> You have one building now, hopefully, it will work
<Unit193> charlie-tca: Thanks, I'll try to
<charlie-tca> I can check logs and stuff, you just have to prompt me to
<Unit193> I really shouldn't make you do all the work when you aren't even part of the project :P
<astraljava> Don't worry, charlie's a vet, he knows this stuff even in his sleep. He's the trooper. :D
<Unit193> Aye, and very helpful! I will learn at some point :P
<astraljava> It's truly great to be here learning.
<charlie-tca> Took me a very long time to learn
 * charlie-tca is a bit slow these days
<charlie-tca> I will teach you what to look at and which fails apply
<astraljava> Thanks! Hugely appreciated.
<astraljava> jockey-backend fails, reporting now.
<charlie-tca> reported already
<astraljava> Oh okay.
<charlie-tca> bug 831447
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 831447 in jockey (Ubuntu Oneiric) "jockey-backend crashed with MemoryError in run_dbus_service() (dup-of: 831754)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/831447
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 831754 in jockey (Ubuntu) "jockey-backend crashed with MemoryError in run_dbus_service()" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/831754
<Olbi> hello all :D
<astraljava> Yeah, learnt that while actually reporting it in LP.
<astraljava> Hi Olbi!
<astraljava> Okay, trying to install now.
<astraljava> Six minutes in, and nothing's happened thus far.
<charlie-tca> knome: you break my images again?
<charlie-tca> hehehe
<charlie-tca> I suspect too many changes are happening in trying to beat the UI freeze deadline now
<charlie-tca> There have been a ton of changes again to Oneiric in the past couple of days, so maybe by Friday we will have working images
<charlie-tca> Are the alternate images working?
<astraljava> Since I have zero experience with live sessions, how should I go about debugging this one? There's the circle with dots moving clock-wise, but that's about it.
<astraljava> It shows nothing in VTs, unlike alternates (which is pretty much the reason why I prefer using them.)
<charlie-tca> restart the live session, using Ctrl+Alt+backspace if needed
<astraljava> X zap does nuthin'
<charlie-tca> will from a tty
<charlie-tca> then let me find the command to start ubiquity from a terminal
<astraljava> sudo service lightdm restart works.
<charlie-tca> okay, then open a terminal in the live session and run 'ubiquity -d'
<charlie-tca> That should start the installer and will give a debug log
<astraljava> Is the installer desktop icon launcher command correct? "ubiquity --desktop %k gtk_ui"
<Olbi> started installing Xubuntu 64 bit LiveCD, manual partitioning works good
<charlie-tca> yes, most likely
<charlie-tca> but when trying to debug, we use a different command than the launcher uses
<charlie-tca> Olbi: glad to hear that. Are you installing from the cd menu or the desktop?
<Olbi> charlie-tca: correct
<charlie-tca> which one?
<astraljava> charlie-tca: ubiquity -d does nothing either.
<charlie-tca> You went to the desktop and clicked the icon?
<Olbi> yes
<charlie-tca> astraljava: I will have to burn it and see then
<charlie-tca> It is 386 only, at least
<astraljava> Sure, I'll re-download, and check md5sum.
<charlie-tca> I am burning it
<Olbi> alternate checking or only livecd?
<Olbi> forgot, alternate isn't working today :P
<charlie-tca> no, we have alternate now
<charlie-tca> !topic
<ubottu> Please read the channel topic whenever you enter, as it contains important information. To view it at any time after joining, simply type /topic
<charlie-tca> yup
<astraljava> charlie-tca: Sorry to sprinkle sea salt into the would that's got the knife sticking out of, but:
<charlie-tca> I try to keep the topic updated so we all know what is happening
<astraljava> 722,776,064 11.2M/s   in 68s
<astraljava> wound*
<charlie-tca> yeah, just keep adding to it... ;)
<charlie-tca> I only have one hour left on my zsync
<astraljava> I'm soooo sorry...
<charlie-tca> knome: no new logo on the cd menu today
<charlie-tca> Never mind sorry, I just keep trying
<charlie-tca> I have the desktop image, booting to live session
<charlie-tca> madnick: there is a parser error in the plymouth script, but I haven't been able to copy it down yet
<charlie-tca> It doesn't seem to stop anything
<charlie-tca> It's one of them annoying "expected ? but got ? in line ???" things
<charlie-tca> I got a live session and the jockey crash
<charlie-tca> astraljava: at what point did the install fail?
<charlie-tca> Did you check "Install this third party software"?
<astraljava> charlie-tca: The installer never even started for me.
<charlie-tca> You got a bad burn, or bad download, or bad virtual machine
<charlie-tca> I'm at the partitioner here
<astraljava> md5sums match, so I'm now trying unetbootin for creating the usb stick.
<charlie-tca> oh, installing from usb?
<astraljava> Yep.
<charlie-tca> Ain't that broke?
<astraljava> Why?
<charlie-tca> installer won't start
<charlie-tca> I think
<astraljava> Well, I kinda noticed that.
<astraljava> *grin*
<astraljava> So, a known bug?
<charlie-tca> I seen something on that this week
<astraljava> Okay.
<charlie-tca> not sure
<charlie-tca> I think they were trying to get confirmation on it
<charlie-tca> Try it again, and make sure.
<charlie-tca> good, every machine I start cuts my download rate in half again
<charlie-tca> I am trying to get these syncs done before I run another install
<astraljava> Right. But that's a bit weird, though. Does your router reserve bandwidth for each connected machine by default? I can't think of any other way how that's possible.
<charlie-tca> I don't know. I just plug things in and they are supposed to more or less work
<charlie-tca> I think it is something to do with qwest dsl here in Idaho
<astraljava> Okay.
<charlie-tca> cableOne would be even worse, if I could get it
<charlie-tca> Maybe I will check out the wireless providers again. I can get promised 10mB/s for less then I pay now
<astraljava> That could be an option.
<charlie-tca> wouldn't take much to be faster than what I got :(
<astraljava> What
<astraljava> sorry
<astraljava> What's the advertised rate?
<charlie-tca> mine now? 3MB
<charlie-tca> speedcheck gives 1.2, which they say is correct
<charlie-tca> wireless has 10MB connections, which might be faster
<astraljava> DSL never reaches even close to the advertised, yeah.
<charlie-tca> I don't really understand all the numbers, but I don't think it gets much slower for "broadband" than what I have now
<astraljava> True.
<madnick> charlie-tca: could you check the log? :)
<madnick> For the plymouth stuff* :P
<charlie-tca> oh, yes, I can
<charlie-tca> let me boot it again. It is on the live session
<madnick> ah
<charlie-tca> Is my computer that slow?
<Olbi> charlie-tca: what hardware you have?
<astraljava> Couldn't possibly tell. What I can tell, though, is that unetbootin made absolutely no difference whatsoever.
<madnick> I ran the script on my computer just now, the log says nothing
<madnick> However
<charlie-tca> Olbi: old
<astraljava> Someone's waiting for confirmation on the usb install fail?
<madnick> !info plymouth oneiric
<ubottu> plymouth (source: plymouth): graphical boot animation and logger - main package. In component main, is required. Version 0.8.2-2ubuntu25 (oneiric), package size 119 kB, installed size 500 kB
<charlie-tca> no, I don't even remember where I saw it
<charlie-tca> madnick: will have it in a minute
<astraljava> No worries, I'll ask on -release.
<madnick> Ill spam the bot 1 more time, need to know if there is a different version :)
<madnick> !info plymouth natty
<ubottu> plymouth (source: plymouth): graphical boot animation and logger - main package. In component main, is required. Version 0.8.2-2ubuntu23 (natty), package size 110 kB, installed size 476 kB
<madnick> okay
<charlie-tca> Olbi: Hardware test; 2.8 GHz P4, 64bit; 1GB RAM; nVidia MX-4000 w/64MB memory
<Olbi> charlie-tca: my is Athlon II x3 425, MSI 785G-E53 and 4GB DDR3 :) and integrated HD4200 :]
<knome> Olbi, if you want HW comparisons, mine is at http://wiki.knome.fi/computers:start
<Olbi> charlie-tca: second for tests is Athlon II x2 450, Gigabyte GA-870A-UD3, 4GB DDR3 and Sapphire HD 5750
<Olbi> knome: cool stuff :)
<knome> Olbi, mmh, some could be better
<Olbi> now I want for tests get 9600GT :]
<madnick> mine is: Packard Bell, Sandy Bridge i7, 16GB RAM, 2TB hdd, ATI Radeon (some gaming thing, with a gamer as art on it) :P
<Olbi> madnick: awesome :D
<astraljava> madnick: Gaming? ATI? REALLY?!!
<knome> madnick, ehm, is there ever been use for the ram >8GB?
<madnick> knome: no swap!
<Olbi> hehe :D
<Olbi> 10 VBoxes :D
<knome> madnick, no swap on my pc either..
<madnick> Honestly, I got this computer because I simply had money to spend
<knome> mmh.
<knome> won't get old anytime soon
<madnick> With the facts in hand, I shouldve never done it :)
<knome> (read 1 year)
<madnick> my old station was good
<knome> heh
<Olbi> I need 2 computers cause I'm testing hardware on Linux and publish it at http://osworld.pl
<knome> i will upgrade to >8GB as soon as there is any reason for that. :P
<madnick> :D
<Olbi> I have upgrade from 2GB to 4GB cause price was good :]
<madnick> I dont even like this computer, because 16 bit Assembly is annoying, and EFI is really annoying
<madnick> 64*
<astraljava> Yeah, just hope Sandy Bridge support progresses for linux.
<Olbi> processors are good support but igp is crap :/
<charlie-tca> madnick: it's in /lib/plymouth/themes/xubuntu-logo/xubuntu-logo.plymouth
<astraljava> Oh it's only for graphics?
<charlie-tca> but I may have to reboot to get the message
<madnick> charlie-tca: hah! i did not touch that one :P
<madnick> Ill check
<madnick> what it says in it
<madnick> charlie-tca: was it there yesterday too?
<charlie-tca> don't know
<charlie-tca> I don't pay enough attention to the screens when starting the session
<madnick> could you copy the contents of it? because it would take me a while to download the live session today
<Olbi> knome: nice site wiki.knome.fi :)
<knome> Olbi, thanks. it runs the same theme than open.knome.fi, with the theme modified slightly
<madnick> 00:09 < madnick> what it says in it
<madnick> ops
<madnick> sorry
<knome> heh
<madnick> need to paste link to my paste
<knome> madnick, you're making no sense now. :)
<madnick> http://pastebin.madnick.se/paste.php?id=4e557719759d5
<madnick> knome: i was in virtualbox
<knome> oh right :P
<madnick> and pasted 
<astraljava> knome: I suspect he needs toothpaste.
<madnick> into this terminal, but it was in vbox
<madnick> :P
<knome> shouldn't vbox shared clipboard work??
<madnick> it have never done so for me
<knome> worksforme.
<knome> have you installed the guest additions?
<madnick> nope
<knome> heh
<knome> that's the reason, i suppose
<astraljava> WorksForMeâ¢
<knome> well it's not too hard, but i suppose you don't want to do that everyday when testing
<charlie-tca> I seldom install guest additions in my test machines
<madnick> It breaks some stuff
<madnick> like Xephyr
<madnick> Guest additions that is
<charlie-tca> madnick: rebooting to copy the message
<madnick> charlie-tca: thanks :)
<knome> xephyr?
<charlie-tca> I suppose you want all of it at once, too :)
<madnick> knome: revursive x servers
<knome> huh, right
<astraljava> Well, didn't see any bug reports regarding ubiquity failing from usb. If no-one responds in -release either, I'm gonna file it tomorrow if it still fails.
<Olbi> go for shower :)
<astraljava> Nah, I'll just file it instead. *grin*
<knome> heh
<charlie-tca> madnick: caught it:
<charlie-tca> Parser error "/lib/plymouth/themes/xubuntu-logo/xubuntu-logo.script" L:193 c:2 : Expected ';' after an expression
<Unit193> Encrypted LVM doesn't really select, just goes back to the Partitioning Method screen on AltCD
<charlie-tca> encrypted lvm is still broken, isn't it?
<Unit193> I would call that broken :P
<madnick> hm
<madnick> i think i see the error
<madnick> fsck_done_fading = 1;inputbox
<madnick> :(
<charlie-tca> Not sure that is the same bug, Unit193 
<charlie-tca> will you file a bug for it?
<madnick> what can i do about that?
<madnick> Should I ask mr_pouit 
<madnick> To remove that faulty thing
<charlie-tca> fix it and give mr_pouit the fix
<madnick> okay
<charlie-tca> bug fixes are okay
<charlie-tca> I can file a bug for it if mr_pouit needs one to put that in
<Unit193> charlie-tca: I don't know what's wrong, all I can say is "It dun work" :P
<charlie-tca> well, that is not so good a description
<Unit193> Exactly. You can't select that without going in a loop
<charlie-tca> okay, give that one a day and try again, then. 
<charlie-tca> I think that should be fixed tomorrow
<charlie-tca> okay, I made the machine stop at the error, now I broke it
<madnick> charlie-tca: did that error break anything for you in plymouth?
<charlie-tca> no, it comes on when plymouth stops, same time as the "speech-dispatcher, starting bluetooth, pulseaudio, samed, checking battery state...
<charlie-tca> I suppose if you have a fast computer, you don't get to see those?
<madnick> Perhaps
<madnick> it is 6 characters that are present for no reason, probably a mix up during my paste
<charlie-tca> no problem, at we caught it now.
<charlie-tca> This is why I test. I can break most anything ;)
<madnick> :)
<charlie-tca> madnick: Is there a way to have lightdm working by September 15?
<charlie-tca> or is it going to take too much time and energy that you need to spend on other things?
<Unit193> Will do
<charlie-tca> will do what?
<charlie-tca> Oh, okay
<Unit193> Was away a little
<madnick> charlie-tca: i could try :)
<madnick> Like hopefully, i should be done even before that if i go at it
<charlie-tca> Let me know. I need to know if we can or not. This is a no-change, gotta happen by date, if we decide to do it
<madnick> okay
<madnick> Ill let you know
<charlie-tca> I will go talk to people and ask for an exception , if you can make it happen. Otherwise, we will wait for LTS to make it happen, without preasure
<madnick> Reason Im not 100% sure is that im going away the 5th, and im not sure how long i will be away
<charlie-tca> That's why I didn't want to pressure you. If it seems too much, better to wait
<charlie-tca> What we have is fine for Oneiric.
<madnick> I can try to finish as much as i can before that (dont tell them anything yet) and then if its close to finished, we could ask for it? if thats possible?
<charlie-tca> sure, that is a good way to deal with it. That way, if you can finish it, I can push people where needed. If not, you don't feel preassure to push yourself too much.
<madnick> :)
<madnick> I could tell you why I am going away, and why its important, but not in a logged channel :P
<madnick> But ill try
<madnick> before that
<charlie-tca> it's okay
<knome> madnick, lol
<madnick> :<
<knome> awwh
<knome> :)
<astraljava> "I could tell you why I'm going away, but then I'd have to kill you. We wouldn't want that, now would we?"
<madnick> :D
<charlie-tca> um, let me think about that. ;)
#xubuntu-devel 2011-08-25
<Unit193> charlie-tca: If you don't mind and have a sec, seems as if it failed and these seemed to be the most noticavle errors http://paste.ubuntu.com/674225/
<raevol> is lightdm for xubuntu being pushed back to 12.04?
<Unit193> We are going to stick with it for Oneiric
<raevol> so lightdm will be included in oneiric? sorry, just clarifying the tense :/
<raevol> nevermind i understand -_-
<raevol> cool, i am excited :) so long gdm!
<charlie-tca> Unit193: is that after installing?
<charlie-tca> That libwebcam error was supposed to be fixed already
<charlie-tca> What kind of partitioning?
<charlie-tca> 135 changes for oneiric in the last 20 hours
 * micahg hasn't started his uploads yet :)
<Unit193> charlie-tca: No, that was for the other one
<charlie-tca> for alternate?
 * charlie-tca is spending a lot of time confused
<Unit193> That's all my fault (Wrong channel tto...)
<charlie-tca> Oh, good. Prefer to know my confusion is not my own doing, this time :)
<Unit193> Was I the only one that got the "oneconf-query" crash?
<Unit193> And service
<GridCube> nope
<Unit193> Good, I can ignore it then
<charlie-tca> no, that one is on every install
<GridCube> bug 831488
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 831488 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "gnome-control-center not found on xubuntu oneiric when launching bluetooth device" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/831488
<GridCube> no wrong one
<charlie-tca> That one should be fixed now, isn't it?
<GridCube> i dont know, i just repasted the error
<charlie-tca> This one - bug 831370
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 831370 in oneconf (Ubuntu) "oneconf crashes constantly on xubuntu oneiric " [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/831370
<charlie-tca> I think the bluetooth bug is fixed, either today or tomorrow
<GridCube> yes that one
<GridCube> wrong pasting
<charlie-tca> heh, hate that
<GridCube> :)
<charlie-tca> well, people, I need to go rest. My brain is tired and my internet is all the way up to 34.3kBps
<GridCube> how are things going on mister charlie?
<charlie-tca> At least the lag is gone now
<GridCube> :D
<charlie-tca> GridCube: going great!
<GridCube> :) awesome
<Unit193> *Master ;)
<GridCube> i got my first check today :D
<charlie-tca> We are in the final runs now, to get things done
<charlie-tca> Great!
<GridCube> indeed
<charlie-tca> Nice to get paid for work done, too?
<GridCube> :D yes
<GridCube> and then some
<GridCube> :P
<charlie-tca> yeah, I used to know that feeling
<GridCube> hahaha
<charlie-tca> now, my pay is when you guys say "Thanks!"
<GridCube> XD
<GridCube> well you know how thankful i am :)
<charlie-tca> Yes, that is part of what makes it all so good.
<GridCube> :)
<GridCube> go get some rest mister charlie-tca 
<charlie-tca> Knowing I can still help one or two, sometimes, is a good thing
<GridCube> :D
<charlie-tca> See you tomorrow, sir!
<GridCube> you to 
<mr_pouit> xubuntu/daily: oneiric-alternate-i386.iso oversized by 16035840 bytes (750039040)
<mr_pouit> it seems it jumped from ~300K to ~16M :>
<charlie-tca> Good morning
* ChanServ changed the topic of #xubuntu-devel to: Xubuntu Development | Oneiric Ocelot Feature Freeze in effect | #xubuntu for support | Schedule: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricReleaseSchedule | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu | Xubuntu Community meeting 2011-08-28 at 22:00 UTC | Oneiric images at http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/
<mr_pouit> o hai
<mr_pouit> please file a bug for the plymouth typo, otherwise I'm going to forget it
<charlie-tca> Okay
<mr_pouit> the bluetooth menu entry in settings doesn't work also
<charlie-tca> Ouch
<mr_pouit> I think there's already a bug filed, but I'm not sure we want gnome-control-center anyway
<mr_pouit> bug 831488
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 831488 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "gnome-control-center not found on xubuntu oneiric when launching bluetooth device" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/831488
<charlie-tca> There is a bug already. seems like gnome-control-center is getting in the way
<mr_pouit> if it needs gnome-control-center to change its settings, it's a no-go for us
<charlie-tca> yup, seems like that is another wrong way to do things
<GridCube> good morning
<mr_pouit> no, it's not wrong, the program is "gnome-bluetooth" after all :p
<charlie-tca> valid, I guess ;)
<charlie-tca> plymouth bug 833833
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 833833 in xubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "parser error in plymouth script" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/833833
<mr_pouit> thanks
<charlie-tca> no problem
<charlie-tca> Glad we catch these things, instead of waiting for the final release to find them
<mr_pouit> grmpf, why are onboard settings in the accessories menu
<charlie-tca> I don't know. Normally though, Onboard disappears from the menu for the release. Can we keep it?
<charlie-tca> I don't care where Onboard settings goes, but would like to keep Onboard keyboard in the menu
<mr_pouit> yeah
<mr_pouit> we can keep a copy of the desktop file (mmmh), or file a bug asking them to keep it displayed for xfce (better)
<charlie-tca> We have filed many bugs asking to keep it in the menu, every one of them gets closed as invalid, because those who need Onboard should know to start it from terminal
<mr_pouit> mmh, did you ask them to keep it for xfce only?
<charlie-tca> which, imho, is ridiculous. If I need on onscreen keyboard, I can't type in terminal
<charlie-tca> don't remember now
<charlie-tca> I can file it, though
<charlie-tca> It's a simple enough bug
<mr_pouit> yeah, and if they close it again, I can say unpleasant things again, sometimes it works
<charlie-tca> Okay, I will get it filed
<charlie-tca> :)
 * charlie-tca likes when mr_pouit says unpleasant things to them
<GridCube> 833833 thats an odd number :P
<davmor2> GridCube: no that is an even number -1 :P
<mr_pouit> ahaha
<GridCube> :P yeah english is fun
<mr_pouit> do we want xterm/uxterm displayed int he menu?
 * GridCube doesnt really care, but thinks its a redundancy
<GridCube> i think its a redundancy :P
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: what purpose does it serve? Isn't xfce4-terminal there, too?
<charlie-tca> I don't know why we would need it there.
<charlie-tca> Is there a way to find what Ubuntu will hide in the menus before final images? I know they hide a lot of entries at that time
 * GridCube likes to launch xterm from alt-f2 but thats because alt-f2 doesnt have autocomplete and writing xfce4-terminal takes to much time XD
<mr_pouit> easily, no :(
<mr_pouit> it's easy to detect desktop files that are here but hidden
<mr_pouit> but harder when they're not hidden yet :p
<charlie-tca> GridCube: hiding the entry in the menu doesn't remove the application
<GridCube> thats because there is no easy way to edit the menus?
<GridCube> yes i know, but if you hide uxterm or whoever its called no one will even know its there
<charlie-tca> no, It's because with the final image being tested, it is late to find you have to change a bunch of desktop files
<GridCube> (and i dont see why they would want another terminal emulator having xterm and xfce4-terminal)
<mr_pouit> (anyway, if you find something that should be hidden in xubuntu, you can file a bug against xubuntu-default-settings)
<charlie-tca> Okay
<charlie-tca> I will start looking in the menus during the test installs
<charlie-tca> I think having more than Terminal in the menus becomes confusing.
<charlie-tca> Especially when the user discovers they don't even look the same
<charlie-tca> It is one of those "I customized the terminal, and next time I clicked it in the menu, it was completely different again" things
<charlie-tca> Onboard in menu bug 833862
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 833862 in onboard (Ubuntu) "Onboard Keyboard should have a menu entry for Xubuntu/Xfce" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/833862
<GridCube> can i support it?
<GridCube> :P
<charlie-tca> yes
<GridCube> :D
<GridCube> done!
<GridCube> also ain't unity meant for touchpads?
<mr_pouit> I field Bug #833873 in the meantime
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 833873 in onboard (Ubuntu) "Onboard settings not in settings menu" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/833873
<charlie-tca> works for me
<GridCube> isnt it stupid to hide onboard keyboard if its meant for tablets or stuff like that?
<charlie-tca> Onboard was originally written specifically as an onscreen keyboard for users that can not use a hardware keyboard
<GridCube> yes, but it works on tablets?
<charlie-tca> Yes, it should. We had a big discussion about that on the mailing list
<charlie-tca> It is not fully touchpad aware, AFAIR
<charlie-tca> Then again, I don't have a touchpad to test with
<charlie-tca> Okay, I have to play with a wasp nest now. Killed it once, missed some bees, apparently.
<GridCube> oh wasps, the first paper makers of the history of time
<GridCube> (assuming that there is no other lifeforms in the rest of the universe)
<micahg> ugh, i386 alternate is massively oversized
<micahg> ah, we ended up with a lot of languages :)
<charlie-tca> They must have dropped the language packs finally
<charlie-tca> well, those wasps certainly get angry when you break their nests
<charlie-tca> Next time, I need more than a 12 inch (30 mm) bar
<charlie-tca> was that a disconnect or netspit I see
<charlie-tca> Just under 2 hours for UI Freeze and Beta1 freeze. This will be a hard freeze, no changes until beta1 releases, I think.
<madnick> plymouth :o
<madnick> Is it fixed?
<madnick> maybe bugfixes are not part of UI freeze :P
<charlie-tca> plymouth bug 833833
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 833833 in xubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "parser error in plymouth script" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/833833
<charlie-tca> madnick: not fixed yet
<madnick> okay
<charlie-tca> Good news is that with the bug report, it won't get forgotten
<micahg> well, no changes unless it fixes a release critical bug, I don't think that one is release critical and unless something is broke by it, I'd rather fix it after beta 1
 * micahg will look into the oversized issue later tonight
<charlie-tca> Yeah, no problem there
<charlie-tca> I think the oversized issue is because of the language pack drop
<micahg> ? shouldn't that make it less, the change happened a couple days ago I thought...
<charlie-tca> Didn't Ubuntu just dump all the language packs into oneiric?
<micahg> ah, yeah, hmm, but shouldn't that affect amd64 as well?
<micahg> oh, right, hehe, I'll fix later :)
<Olbi|2> Hello :D
<madnick> hi
<astraljava> Hi there.
<micahg> looks like we'll have pidgin 2.10.0 for beta, thanks to cyphermox
<mr_pouit> well, the typo is in the fsck part
<charlie-tca> We didn't pick up mono by some chance, did we?
<mr_pouit> so I don't know how the theme will behave in this case
<madnick> mr_pouit: i tried running fsck with the typo present
<madnick> it did not break
<mr_pouit> nice, so it can wait after the beta ;p
<madnick> :((
<micahg> charlie-tca: do you have evidence of this transgression?
<charlie-tca> no, just asking
<micahg> charlie-tca: not that I know of :)
<charlie-tca> Okay, back to work then
#xubuntu-devel 2011-08-26
<micahg> mr_pouit: I dropped the i386 only langpacks on the alternate CD so we shouldn't be oversized in today's builds
<mr_pouit> okay, thanks
<mr_pouit> xubuntu/daily: oneiric-alternate-i386.iso oversized by 16035840 bytes (750039040)
<mr_pouit> mmh
<mr_pouit> micahg: either it didn't use your change, or there's something else going on
<astraljava> micahg: Feel free to use me if you need help with anything re: bug 831768
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 831768 in aptitude (Ubuntu) "aptitude cannot handle the same packages of different architectures being installed" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/831768
<astraljava> It just won't do.
<Olbi> hello
<Olbi> xubuntu is freezing today or another day?
<madnick> UI Freeze yeterday IIRC
<madnick> morning
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: Can you be around next week so if we run into problems, we can get them fixed for beta1?
<mr_pouit> yeah (but I might not be near my gpg key to be able to upload)
<charlie-tca> but if we fix things, someone else can upload it, right?
<charlie-tca> Usually we know by about 16:00 UTC if things are broken
<mr_pouit> yeah, anyone (= any ubuntu dev) can upload
<charlie-tca> Great. Thank you
<charlie-tca> Alternate images for today are building now
<charlie-tca> alternate images now available. Sizes are only 660MB now
* ChanServ changed the topic of #xubuntu-devel to: Xubuntu Development | Oneiric Ocelot Feature Freeze in effect | #xubuntu for support | Schedule: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricReleaseSchedule | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu | Xubuntu Community meeting 2011-08-28 at 22:00 UTC | Alternate images are available as of 15:45 UTC
<mr_pouit> okay, so the fix from micahg worked
<charlie-tca> we're gaining then?
<mr_pouit> indeed (from 715M to 660M)
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: do I need to write up separate release notes from Ubuntu for the beta release?
<charlie-tca> good. Both alternate images are the same size now
<charlie-tca> Thank you for chairing, skaet
<charlie-tca> wrong channel
<mr_pouit> mmh, do we have special things to say for the beta?
<mr_pouit> (except "yeah, lightdm's background is pink, but it's not final")
<charlie-tca> couple of app changes, lightdm works, autologin fails except live cd, I don't think so
<charlie-tca> Is it pink even with our background, or did we not get that yet/
<charlie-tca> ?
<charlie-tca> It's been blue on 64bit, pink on 32bit
<mr_pouit> we don't have the background yet
<Olbi> where in xfce I can change menu like it is on Gnome 2?
<charlie-tca> You can't 
<charlie-tca> gnome is not Xfce
<davmor2> morning charlie-tca 
<charlie-tca> There is a thing in repositories called gnome-menu, but it will be whatever the current version of gnome uses
<charlie-tca> Morning, davmor2 
<charlie-tca> Ready for beta1?
<davmor2> charlie-tca: I would be if it wasn't for the fact that I'll be camping next week, and no where near a confuser :) only time I could book :)
<charlie-tca> That will be a nice break, then. Have fun :)
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: I will note the pink for our users ;)
<mr_pouit> Olbi: you can use alacarte though
<micahg> charlie-tca: mr_pouit: I could add back one of those languages on i386 then since we have the space
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: you want french on them?
<micahg> well, what I removed was ar ru ja on i386
<micahg> charlie-tca: we already have french
<micahg> except on powerpc
<charlie-tca> We don't have powerpc images
<charlie-tca> But, it is still between you and mr_pouit to decide. 
<charlie-tca> You done good getting the images to the same size for both arches. Thanks for doing that
<micahg> oh, hmm, that wasn't supposed to happen :-/, weird
<charlie-tca> lol
<charlie-tca> accidents happen ;)
<charlie-tca> Lubuntu has made a decision to stay with lxdm, because lightdm is causing too many problems
<charlie-tca> They are getting crashes when logging in with lightdm
<micahg> wow :(
<mr_pouit> I think it's fine if we have some free space (you can add back a language pack if you want though, I don't know who amon ar/ru/ja people are the worst in English)
<mr_pouit> *among
<mr_pouit> hehe, I don't blame lubuntu, there are many problems with lightdm :}
 * micahg would think ja :)
<mr_pouit> ok, feel free to add it ;-)
<micahg> mr_pouit: k, will play with it over the weekend
<micahg> mr_pouit: do you think it's worth syncing the thunar vcs plugin for oneiric?
<mr_pouit> micahg: I think it can wait for o+1 (I'm not sure it's worth wasting some time of an archive admin for that)
<micahg> mr_pouit: ok, makes sense, thought I'd ask though
#xubuntu-devel 2011-08-27
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: seems like salt in a wound. Menu -> Settings -> UbuntuOne
<charlie-tca> Can we please remove that completely?
<charlie-tca> Let me check the latest installs for it, I guess
<mr_pouit> mmh, doesn't it work with thunar now?
<mr_pouit> (but we can hide it anyway)
<charlie-tca> no
<charlie-tca> I moved to Dropbox because it does work
<charlie-tca> UbuntuOne works with Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Android, Windows, but not thunar
<mr_pouit> awesome :<
<charlie-tca> I thought so too. Asking them gets me ignored now, too.
<charlie-tca> hm, desktop starting from lightdm takes longer than boot to lightdm
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: ubuntuone is not in oneiric menus
<mr_pouit> yeah, I didn't see it last time I started a vm, but maybe it changed
<mr_pouit> so, nice, nothing to do about that :p
<charlie-tca> yeah :)
<charlie-tca> Now if I could figure out how to add a network printer to oneiric... 
<charlie-tca> I have to work on that after beta1
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: how come we aren't picking up the latest changes in the images? Ubiquity needs to be 2.7.18 to allow installing 3rd party software during installations
<charlie-tca> nm, got an answer
<charlie-tca> ScottK | charlie-tca: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/2.7.18 - failed to build.    
<mr_pouit> anyone running natty to verify Bug #805922 against -proposed?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 805922 in garcon (Ubuntu Natty) "Xfce-menu button shows 'No applications found' instead of menus" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/805922
<mr_pouit> the original bug reporters don't seem interestedâ¦
<mr_pouit> (it's a bit frustrating to have SRUs rejected because nobody could test them)
<charlie-tca> I agree. I can do a nattty install and test it, if you need it
<charlie-tca> Wait a minute, to test it, I have to reproduce it, and can't
<mr_pouit> mmh, weird
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: If I do an install of maverick and upgrade it, will it reproduce it?
<charlie-tca> I never saw that issue here.
<charlie-tca> But I have time tomorrow to do the install and upgrade and test the fix, if I can reproduce it.
<mr_pouit> I think you need to edit the menu with alacarte: a menu entry (e.g. hide ubuntuone) might not be enough, you'll have to hide a catgeory for instance
<charlie-tca> Okay, I will give it a go then. It takes my systems about 6 hours to run the upgrade, so I will plan to do that tomorrow
<mr_pouit> great, thanks
<charlie-tca> I will give it my best attempts
<charlie-tca> I hate seeing things trying to get fixed, and the reporter doesn't follow up
<charlie-tca> Going for a walk, got an install running here.
<Olbi> http://www.zorinpc.com/
<Olbi> :D
<madnick> Olbi: whats that? O_o
<Olbi> a small pc and tablet with ubuntu based distro called zorin os :D
<madnick> Oh
<madnick> Cool
<Olbi> so after Dell and System76 we have now ZorinPC :D
<madnick> :)
<Olbi> they write on site, that have 440 thousand users :D
<charlie-tca> Don't forget ZaReason, too. They sell computers with Ubuntu pre-installed
<Olbi> fact, forgot :)
#xubuntu-devel 2011-08-28
<charlie-tca> GridCube: possible addition to the faq top 10:
<GridCube> say
<GridCube> :)
<charlie-tca> If the cursor doesn't follow the theme set for 11.04 and above, try 
<charlie-tca> chmod +x ~/.Xdefaults
<charlie-tca> .Xdefaults must be executable for Xfce 4.8 
<charlie-tca> That is a change from Xfce 4.6, too
<GridCube> i can say i ever heard of that :/
<charlie-tca> You can change the cursor in Settings -> Mouse, but it doesn't always work.
<charlie-tca> Making .Xdefaults executable helps fix that
<GridCube> ok
<GridCube> charlie-tca, i also have this "Can i add costum themes to xubuntu?"
<GridCube> i know i can
<GridCube> but how do i phrase it?
<pleia2> GridCube: that's a good one
<GridCube> Yes you can intall themes for ???? directly into ~/.something
<charlie-tca> "How can I add custom themes or new themes to Xubuntu?"
<charlie-tca> install themes directly to ~/.themes or add them to /usr/share/themes
<GridCube> what kind of themes?
<GridCube> where from?
<charlie-tca> Themes added to ~/.themes require you to logout/login 
<charlie-tca> any gtk theme should work
<charlie-tca> !themes
<ubottu> Find your themes at: http://www.gnome-look.org - http://art.gnome.org - http://www.kde-look.org - http://kubuntu-art.org - http://themes.freshmeat.net/browse/58/ - http://www.guistyles.com - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/ - Also see !changethemes and https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuEyeCandy
<charlie-tca> so, we need to update the factoid again
<charlie-tca> http://http://xfce-look.org/
<charlie-tca> http://xfce-look.org/
<charlie-tca> !no, !themes is #xubuntu Find your themes at http://www.gnome-look.org - http://art.gnome.org - http://xfce-look.org- Also see !changethemes
<GridCube> can i add the mouse pointer thing to this question? or should i add a new one for it?
<charlie-tca> new one, since most people do not think of themes and mouse pointers together
<GridCube> ok
<GridCube> do i link to this on the apt-get manual link? http://linux.about.com/od/ubusrv_doc/a/ubusg11t01.htm
<GridCube> or should i find a better link?
<GridCube> https://help.ubuntu.com/10.04/serverguide/C/apt-get.html 
<GridCube> this one is shorter but from ubuntu's
<charlie-tca> As much as possible, we link to Ubuntu
<charlie-tca> so, the help.ubuntu.com link should be linked to
<GridCube> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AptGet/Howto
<GridCube> ok this one then
<charlie-tca> yup
<GridCube> i've made a short url for the google doc http://alturl.com/qq8o4
<knome> !themes
<ubottu> To change your theme in Xubuntu, go to Settings Manager Â» Appearance (GTK+ theme) or Settings Manager Â» Window Manager (xfwm4 theme) to change the theme - find more themes at http://xfce-look.org/
<knome> charlie-tca, ^
<charlie-tca> Thank you
<knome> np
<GridCube> i just need one more question for the faq
<knome> "Where can I learn more?"
<knome> #xubuntu @ Freenode, xubuntu.org
<knome> xubuntu-users and -devel mailing lists
<knome> planet ubuntu for general ubuntu stuff
<charlie-tca> Great question!
<knome> as well as the help.ubuntu.com documentation
<knome> or/and "How can I contribute to Xubuntu?" too
<knome> -> link to the contribute page
<knome> that can be integrated to the other question as well
<GridCube> i was thinking on that line too
<GridCube> but mine was, "how can i help to make xubuntu"
<knome> i suppose contribute is better, since that also covers stuff like helping out with support and stuff
<charlie-tca> yup
<charlie-tca> Don't have to be a coder/developer to contribute, but that is a requirement to "make" Xubuntu
<GridCube> something like, "My question is not covered here, how can i get more help?"
<charlie-tca> damn that english language
<GridCube> mmm 
<charlie-tca> GridCube: that would be good
<GridCube> :p i need to find the links now
<GridCube> but its food time
<GridCube> :D
<Olbi> hello all :D
<Olbi> weekend is over soon :(
<Olbi> I have some ideas for next release of Xubuntu - 12.04 :)
<knome> Olbi, you can go ahead
<Olbi> I thought that all are doing something else :P
<knome> they can be, but most of us read the backlog anyway
<Olbi> Firstly - change grub and boot screen, like it is on PCLinuxoS Phoenix Edition :)
<Olbi> if some1 saw it, that know what I mean :D
<knome> hmm, do you mean theme grub2, or install something else instead?
<knome> there are (some) improvements to the boot artwork for oneiric already, and more are coming for o+1
<Olbi> hmm :) smells good :D
<madnick> Olbi: http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/draft-fsck2.ogg
<Olbi> Xubuntu 11.04 doesnt have any artwork for grub2 and boot screen default :(
<knome> mmh, i need to take out some garbage, which do not smell so good
<knome> brb
<Olbi> nice look, but I think we should get logo to the background and more bigger
<Olbi> and booting line take to bootom
<Olbi> with text which appear above it
<madnick> :)
 * Unit193 hopes he didn't miss all that much
<charlie-tca> We have a meeting in a couple of hours today
<Unit193> Again, can't make it. Sorry about it, but I can only really make the Monday ones
<charlie-tca> No problem. 
<charlie-tca> Testing beta1 starts Tuesday
<Unit193> I'll be working on my issue real soon so I should be good
<charlie-tca> zsync your images so you are ready
<Unit193> I can't do that as that's part of the thing broken :/
<charlie-tca> Oh
<Unit193> Alright, reboot has fixed it after all... Dunno how that was mixed up :/
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: I can not get the menus to go away at all
<charlie-tca> bug 805922
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 805922 in garcon (Ubuntu Natty) "Xfce-menu button shows 'No applications found' instead of menus" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/805922
<charlie-tca> can't really verify the fix, since I can not reproduce the bug in the first place
<charlie-tca> I have tried 4 times to reproduce this issue. I can not seem to do so.
<mr_pouit> meh
<mr_pouit> I'll set up a natty vm tomorrow and try too
<charlie-tca> frustrating 
<charlie-tca> I don't know how to make the menu go away
 * micahg has xubuntu natty on armel w/out issue
<charlie-tca> so, even editing menu properties and checking "Use custom menu file: " with Menu file: "NONE" gives me a menu
<charlie-tca> Well, anyone here for a meeting?
<madnick> Yes
<micahg> o/
<charlie-tca> Okay, I will have one then
<charlie-tca> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Sun Aug 28 22:01:54 2011 UTC.  The chair is charlie-tca. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Useful Commands: #topic #action #link #idea #voters #vote #chair #action #agreed #help #info #endmeeting.
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Agenda for today's meeting:
<meetingology> TOPIC: Agenda for today's meeting:
<charlie-tca> * Old business
<charlie-tca> * Team updates
<charlie-tca>   * Packaging & Development
<charlie-tca>   * Bug Triage & Testing
<charlie-tca>   * Website & Marketing
<charlie-tca>   * Artwork
<charlie-tca>   * Documentation
<charlie-tca> * Announcements
<charlie-tca> * Governance structure
<charlie-tca> * Any Other Business
<charlie-tca> Reminder:   please use ".." on separate line when you've finished typing.   If someone wants to comment during the updates, please "o/", so we know to wait.
<charlie-tca> Well, I got to remember not to paste things that way.
<charlie-tca> The agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] === Old Business ===
<meetingology> TOPIC: === Old Business ===
<charlie-tca>  * livecd menu logo - knome
<charlie-tca> knome: you around?
<GridCube> :/ he is not apparently
<charlie-tca> and I haven't seen the new logo on the menu yet
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] === Team updates ===
<meetingology> TOPIC: === Team updates ===
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] ==== Packaging & Development ====
<meetingology> TOPIC: ==== Packaging & Development ====
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: you around?
<mr_pouit> yes
<charlie-tca> go ahead, sir
<GridCube> o/
<mr_pouit> there are very few updates this week, so I'll write them, and you can ask your question right after :P
<GridCube> yes no problem
<mr_pouit> micahg fixed the alternate cd to fit in 700M again; latest greybird uploaded, and plymouth 16bit theme added.
<mr_pouit> ..
<charlie-tca> Whee! short and simple. But got a lot done again
<GridCube> we have 3 different terminal emulators, can something be done to reduce this to at least two? xcfe4-terminal and xterm?
<charlie-tca> We should have good plymouth themes for everyone now, right?
<GridCube> (and hide xterm from the menus)
<GridCube> ..
<mr_pouit> (micahg: feel free to add if I forgot something ;-)
<madnick> o/
<micahg> o/
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: you were going to remove a couple of terms from Accessories, or did we forget to tell you?
<mr_pouit> GridCube:  yeah we can hide xterm/uxterm from the default menu
<charlie-tca> madnick: go ahead?
<madnick> Is the bug in plymouth fixed?
<charlie-tca> It isn't fixed on the latest image
<madnick> okay
<madnick> ..
<charlie-tca> but updates seem to be held up waiting for the new ubiquity to get there, too.
<GridCube> mr_pouit, that would be useful to reduce redundancy and confusion (..)
<mr_pouit> madnick: the typos? Not yet (as it doesn't seem to break anything, it can wait for after the beta, right?)
<madnick> mr_pouit: I suppose :)
<charlie-tca> micahg: your question/comment?
<micahg> we have 4 FTBFS sources from the archive rebuild including xubuntu-docs
<micahg> but unless we have new docs for oneiric, we can fix after beta
<mr_pouit> GridCube: please file a bug against xubuntu-default-settings for anything related to the menu (it'll be done after the beta, and without a bug report as reminder it'll be forgotten)
<charlie-tca> I will have to track the docs guys down and see if we are getting the new stuff in
<micahg> also, I added back japanese to the alternate CD, there's more room, so I could add back another language as wel
<GridCube> (will do)
<mr_pouit> mmh, the person who took care of the docs in natty isn't very active lately
<micahg> ..
<charlie-tca> yeah, we seem to have that problem with docs
<charlie-tca> We really need someone to step up and work on them.
<mr_pouit> I'm afraid that we'll only replace 11.04 by 11.10 in the docs for this cycle :<
<charlie-tca> micahg: between you and mr_pouit, you will decide what to do with the cd's.
<charlie-tca> Well, sometimes that is all we can do.
<charlie-tca> Any other comments / questions for packaging and development?
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] ==== Bug Triage & Testing ====
<meetingology> TOPIC: ==== Bug Triage & Testing ====
<charlie-tca> We done really good testing daily images this week. Many thanks to those doing those tests.
<charlie-tca>  * Please sync your images. We begin Beta1 testing on Tuesday.
<GridCube> o/ 
<charlie-tca> go ahead, GridCube 
<GridCube> the bluetooth thing is being worked i gather?
<charlie-tca> I thought that got fixed already
<GridCube> oh, havent tested since last time, sorry
<mr_pouit> which issue is it again?
<charlie-tca> Not sure which bug number that is, our list at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Bugs/OneiricOcelot is growing again
<charlie-tca> GridCube: explain it again, please.
<charlie-tca> blue tooth causing gnome-control-center to crash?
<GridCube> when you choose bluetooht on the menu it calls gnome-something bluetooth
<GridCube> yes that
<mr_pouit> ah, indeed, "gnome-control-center bluetooth"
<mr_pouit> well, we can: 1/ put the correct dep to gnome-control-center (but it'll bring it on our iso, and possibly for gnome apps, ~unknown side effects)
<mr_pouit> 2/ drop gnome-bluetooth from the default install
<mr_pouit> 3/ try to find a replacement for it
<charlie-tca> Does dropping gnome-bluetooth mean bluetooth won't work at all?
 * charlie-tca likes 3/ best
<GridCube> bug 866311
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 866311 could not be found
<mr_pouit> Bug #831488 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 831488 in gnome-bluetooth (Ubuntu Oneiric) "gnome-bluetooth should Recommends gnome-control-center" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/831488
<mr_pouit> err, which one is it? :p
<GridCube> bug 836311
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 836311 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "xubuntu menus have too many terminal emulators" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/836311
<charlie-tca> Oh, good
<mr_pouit> GridCube: thanks
<GridCube> no problem
<charlie-tca> Is that the right bluetooth bug, GridCube ?
<mr_pouit> is bug #831488 the one you were thinking about?
<GridCube> thats the one i reported yes
<GridCube> see my name there :P
<charlie-tca> Yup, that's the one
<mr_pouit> seb128 wrote: "The issue is that the bluetooth interface is a control-center panel in GNOME3 so it should depends on it"
<charlie-tca> GridCube: it ain't fixed
<mr_pouit> so yeah, if we go 1/, it'll bring gnome-control-center by default
<charlie-tca> yup
<charlie-tca> and they won't fix it by allowing it to not be a depends
<GridCube> isnt there another bluetooht manager?
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: it still should not give an error when you don't have bluetooth, should it?
<mr_pouit> there's "blueman", but I don't know its state in oneiric
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca: no, it won't give any error, since gnome-contrl-center is missing, so the current menu entry is useless
<micahg> well, it's yet another thing to port to dh_python2, but that's acceptable...
<charlie-tca> but that is what the bug is for. It did crash with no bluetooth
<charlie-tca> blueman, micahg ?
<micahg> yep
<charlie-tca> Let's file it then
<GridCube> !info blueman
<ubottu> blueman (source: blueman): A Graphical bluetooth manager. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.21-4.1build1 (natty), package size 423 kB, installed size 2680 kB
<charlie-tca> !info blueman oneiric
<ubottu> blueman (source: blueman): A Graphical bluetooth manager. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.21-4.1build1 (oneiric), package size 423 kB, installed size 2680 kB
<GridCube> there is another one
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca: (no no, the bug is about a missing dep: gnome-control-center isn't installed and can't be found)
<GridCube> !info bluez oneiric
<micahg> there's a new branch in experimental, but I wouldn't want to tinker with this for beta 1
<ubottu> bluez (source: bluez): Bluetooth tools and daemons. In component main, is optional. Version 4.96-0ubuntu3 (oneiric), package size 566 kB, installed size 1716 kB (Only available for amd64 armel i386 ia64 mips mipsel powerpc s390 sparc alpha armhf avr32 hppa m68k powerpcspe sh4 sparc64 ppc64 all)
<charlie-tca> Well, beat me with a wet trout. 
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit, micahg : if blueman will let us use bluetooth with out the gnome stuff, let's go that way
<mr_pouit> GridCube: bluez doesn't provide any graphical interface I think
<charlie-tca> We can fix it after beta1, right?
<charlie-tca> I can release note it for this beta1
<GridCube> i support the idea of blueman, so no gnome-control-center is needed
<charlie-tca> Let's not forget to do this. Do we need bugs filed for it?
<micahg> ah, it's about to go to unstable
<micahg> charlie-tca: yes, we'll need an FFe
<GridCube> i guess the original one still stand
<charlie-tca> for the dh_python thing?
<micahg> well, I'll file that later, no, I meant for the switch to bluean
<micahg> *blueman
<charlie-tca> Okay, I will file one then
<mr_pouit> I'd say: one against xubuntu-meta (for the seeds' change, so FFe), and one against xubuntu-default-settings (might be necessary to ship custom settings for xubuntu)
<charlie-tca> Want me to file two of them, then?
<charlie-tca> or file one for blueman, and ask about the other one/
<charlie-tca> ?
<mr_pouit> we'll need one against xubuntu-meta to get the FFe (the second one for the default settings can come later)
<charlie-tca> Okay. 
<micahg> the downside is no indicator integration, but I guess it's useless anyways if other parts are broke
<mr_pouit> (but anyway, as you've said, let's not target that for the beta)
<charlie-tca> [ACTION] charlie-tca to get FFe filed for xubuntu-meta to add blueman to seeds
<meetingology> ACTION: charlie-tca to get FFe filed for xubuntu-meta to add blueman to seeds
<charlie-tca> right, I would think getting bluetooth usable is important
<micahg> I'll work on the FFe for the new version of blueman
<micahg> unless mr_pouit would like to handle it
<charlie-tca> [ACTION] micahg or mr_pouit to do FFe for blueman
<meetingology> ACTION: micahg or mr_pouit to do FFe for blueman
<micahg> and no rdepends, so we can own it :)
<charlie-tca> Great!
<micahg> or pwn it :)
<charlie-tca> sounds right to me
<charlie-tca> Anything else ?
<charlie-tca> moving on, 
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] ==== Website & Marketing ====
<meetingology> TOPIC: ==== Website & Marketing ====
 * micahg guesses gilir might follow us on this one too :)
<charlie-tca> pleia2: here?
<mr_pouit> micahg: if there's some dh-python in it, I'm happy to let you do it ;-)
<micahg> mr_pouit: heh, I haven't done an actual conversion yet, currently it's still using python-central
<charlie-tca> I would think gilir will, since they don't want gnome everything either
<pleia2> charlie-tca: ticket was submitted to canonical for review of the theme and plugin, but no word back yet
<charlie-tca> Yeah, got to give them a while, I guess
<charlie-tca> Anybody want to take on Marketing yet?
<pleia2> once that's done we'll have a staging site which the team can review before we launch
<charlie-tca> I suppose I have to revive that again
<GridCube> o/ 
<charlie-tca> GridCube: you want to take Marketing?
<GridCube> the top 10 will go to the new website?
<GridCube> XD no
<pleia2> GridCube: that's the plan :)
<GridCube> I was following the rules
<charlie-tca> yes, the top 10 will go to the new website
 * charlie-tca got my hopes up
<GridCube> I don't know what the marketing is
<GridCube> but i can try
 * GridCube has only taken administration clasess, not the marketing ones :(
<charlie-tca> It's pretty big. getting out some blogs, news articles, keep Xubuntu in the news as much as possible, twitter or facebook if you have it, etc
<GridCube> mmm
<charlie-tca> generally, let people know we are alive and still going :)
<madnick> I can wear an Xubuntu shirt ;)
<GridCube> I do work whit free internet access and a lot of free time, but i don't really know, If you want i will try
<GridCube> (also i do promote xubuntu all the time)
<charlie-tca> Great! I will get with you and see what we can do, then
<GridCube> ..
<GridCube> no problem
<madnick> o/
<charlie-tca> Anything else for website or marketing?
<charlie-tca> go ahead, madnick 
<madnick> There should be an "xubuntu store"
<madnick> Like the Ubuntu store
<charlie-tca> Yeah, that may be "way way" down the road
<madnick> oh okay
<madnick> ..
<charlie-tca> It would be nice just to get Xubuntu cd's in the store, though
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] ==== Artwork ====
<meetingology> TOPIC: ==== Artwork ====
<charlie-tca> ochosi: you here today?
<charlie-tca> madnick: you got any updates here?
<GridCube> o/ (little off-topic)
<charlie-tca> go ahead
<madnick> well
<madnick> ill wait :) 
<GridCube> I've read in the logs that ubuntu-studio asked madnick help on making their own greeter, I know this isn't exactly xubuntu bussiness but i would like to know how that was going :P
<charlie-tca> madnick: ?
<madnick> Well, on that, I have not had much time this week to work on the greeter, but I will start tomorrow to really get back on that
<astraljava> We just briefly discussed about the way the greeter was made, that's all.
<madnick> On the ubuntu-studio thing
<madnick> yes
<madnick> ..
<GridCube> oh okay just wanted to know (..)
<charlie-tca> Thanks for the update. Any help you can give studio will be greatly appreciated, too.
 * charlie-tca knows we are asking a lot, with the greeter thing.
<astraljava> Yes, very much so. (..)
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] === Announcements ===
<meetingology> TOPIC: === Announcements ===
<charlie-tca>  * The next meeting will be on Monday, 2011-09-05 at 19:00 UTC
<charlie-tca>  * Important dates coming up:
<charlie-tca>   * We are now in UI Freeze and Beta1 Freeze
<charlie-tca>   * 11.10 Beta1: September 1
<charlie-tca>   * 11.10 Release Date: October 13, 2011
<charlie-tca>  * We need to update the Team Reports this week.
<charlie-tca> oh, I forgot again
<charlie-tca> Team Reports. We need to try and stay on top of them
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] === Any Other Business ===
<meetingology> TOPIC: === Any Other Business ===
<GridCube> o/
<pleia2> Sorry if I missed it (working during this meeting, silly hurricane), do we have Beta announcement notes for the site?
<charlie-tca> Beta1 this next week. Let's try and get a good news writeup. It is going to happen, for sure.
<pleia2> thanks charlie-tca
<charlie-tca> not yet
<charlie-tca> GridCube: your turn
<pleia2> just give me a nudge this week when we've got them
<GridCube> I have the top 10 done pretty much 
<charlie-tca> Sure will
<charlie-tca> When it is ready, just give pleia2 the URL
<GridCube> i've made a shorturl http://pix.avaxnews.com/avaxnews/2e/31/0000312e.jpeg
<GridCube> no not that one
<charlie-tca> or give it now, and maybe she will be kind enough to look it over and see if we need to change anything
<pleia2> I am on the top 10 google doc
<GridCube> http://alturl.com/qq8o4
<GridCube> there
<pleia2> GridCube: cactus! :)
<charlie-tca> Thanks!
<GridCube> XD yes huge cactus
<charlie-tca> any thing to be discussed?
<charlie-tca> pleia2: can you take a look when you get a chance?
<GridCube> number 10 question needs a lot of work tho
<pleia2> charlie-tca: will do
<charlie-tca> Thank you. 
<charlie-tca> Let's go back to work then.
<charlie-tca> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Sun Aug 28 22:53:17 2011 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot . (v 0.1.4)
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2011/xubuntu-devel.2011-08-28-22.01.moin.txt
<GridCube> :D
<GridCube> good evening to all 
<GridCube> and thank you for making xubuntu
<GridCube> :D
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: I have tried every way I know to reproduce the missing menus, and just don't seem to be able to
<charlie-tca> Thank all of you for participating in this meeting.
<GridCube> :D
<Olbi> :)
<mr_pouit> :)
<astraljava> What is this? A smiley contest?
<GridCube> :3 
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca: thanks, sorry for your time asted, I'll try tomorrow and see what I come up with
<mr_pouit> *wasted
<micahg> âº
<GridCube> (>^_^)>
<charlie-tca> No problem. I just really wanted to get that tested
<charlie-tca> :-)
<Olbi> I've heard that networkmanager is crap, is i true? some ppl change for another programs, like wicd or conman :]
<charlie-tca> no, not true
<charlie-tca> Some people don't like it, and it didn't work so good in some previous releases.
<charlie-tca> It works very good now, though
<Olbi> some ppl said, that on KDE were problems :]
<mr_pouit> (almost 1am here, so good night)
<Olbi> ok, go sleep too :]
<Olbi> have a nice night :D
<charlie-tca> Thank you, mr_pouit. Good night
<micahg> night mr_pouit 
<charlie-tca> Olbi: KDE uses a modified version of network manager, called knetwork-manager
<charlie-tca> That might be having problems. We use the same version as Ubuntu, and it really is pretty good now.
<GridCube> i have never had problems whit it
<GridCube> but then again i just plug and internet
<charlie-tca> We had a lot of issues back in 2008 and 2009 with it, but it has been re-written and works quite good now.
<GridCube> bug 831488
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 831488 in gnome-bluetooth (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Xubuntu should not call gnome-control-center" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/831488
<GridCube> ive changed its name
<GridCube> XD
<charlie-tca> Okay
<charlie-tca> Good thing you brought it up. I really thought it was done
<GridCube> :)
<GridCube> my job is to bugger off people about tiny things XD
<charlie-tca> That could be a big thing, for those who need bluetooth to work
<GridCube> yes, i though exactly the same thing
 * astraljava 's job is to listen to people who step into his office while whining "Oohhhh noooo.... it's not working..."
<charlie-tca> I don't have anything bluetooth here.
<micahg> FFe for new version of blueman filed bug #836324
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 836324 in blueman (Ubuntu) "FFe: Sync blueman 1.22~bzr707-1 (universe) from Debian experimental (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/836324
<charlie-tca> I used to do that stuff
<charlie-tca> Thanks, micahg 
<astraljava> But then I have to fix it also.
<GridCube> what does FFe stands for?
<astraljava> Feature Freeze exception
#xubuntu-devel 2012-08-20
<ochosi> mr_pouit: ok, how do you put me in the loop?
<ochosi> mr_pouit: (didn't receive any emails or pings so far...)
<pleia2> knome: need to update twitter link on your blog :)
<knome> pleia2, ah, will do
<elfy> anyone know what package to file a bug for if there is an error with something in the menu? 
<ochosi> mr_pouit: what was with that lightdm discussion you mentioned yesterday?
<ochosi> elfy: you mean the application menu that sits in the panel
<ochosi> ?
<elfy> yea - the click this to get to the menu's 
<elfy> little blue mouse - long and short is - help fails 
<ochosi> that's a bug in the xfcepanel
<elfy> ok - known about one is it then 
<ochosi> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=Xfce4-panel
<ochosi> you have to select "applications menu" as component
<ochosi> but before you do that, browse if there is a bugreport already
<elfy> oh lord - do I really have to create a xfce bugzilla account :(
<elfy> found one there and a LP one 
<elfy> exo-open bug apparently
<elfy> I think it's one mr_pouit knows about https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qimo-session/+bug/1002253
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1002253 in qimo-session (Ubuntu) "[quantal] xfce4-utils is deprecated in 4.10" [Undecided,Fix released]
<mr_pouit> xfhelp4 doesn't exist anymore, so if something is still calling it directly, it will fail
<mr_pouit> (if too many things still rely on it, I guess I'll put it back, afaik they reintroduced it temporarily in opensuse)
<elfy> the help button in the menu is doing so - calls xfbrowser4 
<mr_pouit> oh yeah, same for xfbrowser
<elfy> I assume there are bugs already for that then and no need to duplicate
<mr_pouit> I'm not aware of existing bugs for that, so feel free to report them ;p
<elfy> ok - against xfbrowser ?
<mr_pouit> if it's the help item from the xubuntu menu, it's in xubuntu-default-settings
<elfy> ok - thanks mr_pouit 
<mr_pouit> e.g. if you change  /usr/share/xubuntu/applications/xfhelp4.desktop manually and it works, it's xubuntu-specific :p
<elfy> I just changed xfbrowser4 in the menu item to firefox for me 
<elfy> mr_pouit: well changing xfhelp4.desktop doesn't appear to make any difference - but I reported it https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/+bug/1039117
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1039117 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Help menu item fails in Xubuntu" [Undecided,New]
<pleia2> fmolinero is trying to do some testing, can someone give him a hand? (I'm at work, can't break away right now)
<fmolinero> Hi
<elfy> hi fmolinero - if I can help I will
<fmolinero>  I am triying to do my first test
<fmolinero>  but when VM starts
<fmolinero>  I received the message:
<fmolinero>  This kernel requires the following features not present on teh CPU:
<fmolinero>  pae
<fmolinero>  Unable to boot
<elfy> aah - long time since I used a VM 
<knome> hmm. i'm wondering if you can run PAE-stuff in VM, if your CPU doesn't support it
<fmolinero> ok
<elfy> have you got it turned on fmolinero 
<fmolinero> no I have not
<elfy> right click the vm OS - settings - then system - processor
<fmolinero> ok
<knome> oh, right! :)
<knome> yeah, stupid me..
<elfy> if it's disabled and your real cpu does not have pae then I'd suspect knome is right
<fmolinero> but the problem is the VM is setup by Testdrive program
<elfy> can you change the settings though ?
<fmolinero> wait
<fmolinero> I will try
<knome> elfy, what i'm wondering is if you can enable PAE altogether if the physical CPU doesn't support that, eg. can you simulate PAE :)
<elfy> yea - if pc doesnlt have it and vm settings doesn't let you - I'd assume not 
<fmolinero> The VM alow me to use PAE
<elfy> k 
<knome> turn that on, and booting should work
<fmolinero> but when Testdrive setup de VM machine does not use this feature
<elfy> ok - but setting it and booting now it works?
<fmolinero> wait
<fmolinero> it works!
<knome> i'd imagine testdrive generally is able to support pae
<elfy> cool :)
<knome> great
<fmolinero> thanks
<fmolinero>  I realized I do not need to bott from Testdrive
<micahg> awesome, the ISOs went up another few MB
<knome> hehe
<micahg> are any of our testers on slow connections
<GridCube> i am, sadly that fact has made me not to test anymore
<GridCube> i cant get images fast enough to do anything with them
<knome> GridCube, what happened with your ISP? 
<knome> GridCube, or you? :P
<GridCube> i don't know, im getting up to 30kb/s!!
<knome> call them and say "GRR"
<GridCube> well sometimes it goes to 300kbs but only for like 3 minuts
<knome> seriously, have you checked your cables? :P
<knome> what are you paying for?
<knome> 300 or 30?
<GridCube> 300
<knome> yeah, call them and say you aren't getting what you are paying for
<GridCube> its a 3Mb connection
<knome> and tell them to either drop the price to 10% or raise the speed to 100%
<GridCube> i did, it turns out im at the edge of the telephone lines, they need to replace all the cables and improve their oversold technology
<knome> aha
<knome> so tell them you want a discount for not getting what you pay for
<knome> are there other ISPs around?
<knome> would they have better networks?
<GridCube> sadly no, but they do have better networks
<knome> or are they using the same backbone
<knome> they? the same ISP?
<GridCube> no
<GridCube> other companies
<knome> aha
<GridCube> television cable companies
 * micahg thinks he just found 15MB  to reclaim
<knome> so why don't you take one of those?
<micahg> Bug #1039264 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1039264 in speech-dispatcher (Ubuntu) "speech-dispatcher pulling in flite in quantal" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1039264
<knome> micahg, ooh shiny!
<knome> that's quite a lot comparing to other stuff we thought we could drop
<GridCube> the nearest one cables go 30 blocks away from my house, i hope they tend cables to this area soon
<knome> GridCube, i totally wish good luck
<knome> if not else, just make your own connection
<micahg> there's another 20 or so unaccounted for, I think it's fonts related
<knome> i can send you some extra cabling and connectors
<GridCube> :P
<GridCube> i could buy satellital internets
<knome> GridCube, that sounds hi-tech
<micahg> ok, so I'll stop pursuing the "nuclear" option of xz compressing in squashfs then
<knome> micahg, the "worst" we can do for Q is just blacklist that package?
<micahg> knome: nah, if Luke doesn't fix it I will
<knome> okay, great
<knome> i'm quite certain luke will, though
 * micahg would just prefer to spend his vacation doing other thinsg
<knome> if he is who i think he is
<knome> yes, exactly him.
<micahg> knome: I think worst case is that the amd64 live image is oversized and the rest fit on a CD
<knome> that's bad.
<knome> that doesn't sound like we'd have a bright future with getting the images fit
<knome> not that it is very bright now
<micahg> alternates fit fine :)
<micahg> because I can xz compress stuff in the package repo
<knome> but desktops need to work
<micahg> well, i386 should fit on a CD
<knome> amd64 not fitting ain't good
<micahg> well, I might be able to pull it off...I'm just not sure if I will have the time or not
<knome> i hope we will be able to pull it off together, as a team! :)
<micahg> knome: well, if someone can go through that list I pasted and look for obvious problematic additions, that would help
<knome> right
<micahg> libflite1 was on tehre
<knome> where is that again? :]
<knome> i'll add that to my bookmarks this time, i promise
<knome> i'm sure i did that last time, but it doesn't look like i did
<micahg> meh, that looks like it's only on the alternate CD, but I think seeded-in-ubuntu is lying
<knome> meh then
<SkippersBoss> assroom
<knome> watch your language.
<knome> SkippersBoss, did you have something on your heart?
<SkippersBoss> oops i do apologise
<SkippersBoss> My system is seriously messing up
<SkippersBoss> i type classroom
<SkippersBoss> however Thanks to xubuntu stealing focus all the time half of it gets in another window
<SkippersBoss> I seriously apologise. the cl bit went into a different window. Xubuntu is getting me into trouble here
<SkippersBoss> :-(
<knome> ok, no problem :)
<SkippersBoss> it is for me :-((
<knome> nah, it's fine
<knome> that was actually quite funny accident, now that you told us what happened
<SkippersBoss> :-0
<knome> better that way than a troll.
<SkippersBoss> oops i would never ever
#xubuntu-devel 2012-08-21
<micahg> Bug #1039280 suggests to me that we might want to include whoopsie in quantal
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1039280 in xfburn (Ubuntu) "xfburn crashes on ppc" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1039280
<micahg> ah, nevermind, it is included
<elfy> good day fmolinero 
<fmolinero> good day elfy
<elfy> test drive thing went well I assume in the end 
<fmolinero> yes
<fmolinero> everything was OK
<fmolinero> I did the testcase 
<elfy> excellent - IO've never used testdrive to be honest 
<fmolinero> I follow the instructions
<elfy> :)
<fmolinero> but at the end I do not understand why testdrive is necesary
<elfy> I think it was set up to make it easier for people to participate in testing - but I am not completely sure
<fmolinero> I am going to start with sort/long test
<elfy> all I know is that the xubuntu team will be happy to have someone testing
<fmolinero> it is nice for me to help Xubuntu team
<elfy> and me 
<fmolinero> I have a question about sort and long test
<elfy> if I can answer I will 
<fmolinero> I assume if I found a bug I must report it
<fmolinero> but if everythong is Ok
<fmolinero> where I must report the test is passed?
<elfy> you can login in to the qa tracker can you - do you have a launchpad account?
<fmolinero> yes
<elfy> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker
<elfy> thenm quantal daily - then you will see everything - you can filter on the left to only see xubuntu, then click the iso you tested
<elfy> pass/fail/bug options are then there
<fmolinero> OK, as the same way I did with ISO testing
<elfy> yea
<fmolinero> but do I need to explicit the kind of test?
<fmolinero> ISO/sort/long
<elfy> no
<fmolinero> OK
<elfy> not that I know of
<elfy> I do short tests for dailies - long tests for milestones 
<fmolinero> every day?
<elfy> as often as I can 
<fmolinero> OK
<elfy> but I run it all the time now 
<fmolinero> I have Xubuntu running on VirtualBox
<elfy> nice 
<fmolinero> I assume I can do the test on it
<elfy> I think so 
<fmolinero> OK
<elfy> s/think/pretty sure 
<ochosi> wow, i'm experiencing problems with xfce4-power-manager for the first time
<knome> good time...
<ochosi> knome: i was considering contacting the debian install team on behalf of xubuntu/shimmer, do you mind?
<knome> nope, go ahead
<knome> just gimme the results :)
<ochosi> well i can cc you
<knome> that would be great
<ochosi> or if you want you can read it beforehands
<knome> nah, i'm confident you're not an idiot ;)
<ochosi> lol
<knome> besides, i need to work now, so not too much time
 * ochosi feels _very_ humbled
<knome> hah
<knome> :)
<ochosi> any testers around?
<ochosi> elfy?
<ochosi> nvm, figured it out
<elfy> sorry ochosi 
<ochosi> elfy: np, as i said, figured it out
<elfy> :)
<smartboyhw> Somebody teach me on how to work on the wiki, I'm a bit confused with so many deleted links...
<knome> what wiki?
<bluesabre> Question... what needs to be in the .desktop file to add it to the Settings Manager?
<knome> i think some category, but i'm not 100% sure
<bluesabre> I'm trying to add MenuLibre to the Settings Manager.  It currently is available in Ubuntu's Settings Manager too, so this string is quite long for that reason...
<bluesabre> Categories=XFCE;GNOME;GTK;System;Settings;X-GNOME-Settings-Panel;X-GNOME-PersonalSettings;DesktopSettings;X-XFCE;
<knome> heh :)
<bluesabre> Guess I'll try on xfce-dev
<bluesabre> :)
<knome> that'll work or wait here, people do know it ;)
<bluesabre> Ah, I'll be patient today.  :-)
 * bluesabre sits patiently.
<bluesabre> mr_pouit: Catfish 0.4.0 is released!  :D  https://launchpad.net/catfish-search
<bluesabre> Now I leave it in your capable hands to get it into Xubuntu ;)
#xubuntu-devel 2012-08-22
<SkippersBoss> where can i find the list of applications shipped with XU 12.10 ??
<bluesabre> http://packages.ubuntu.com/quantal/xubuntu-desktop
<bluesabre> See the related packages
<bluesabre> There's probably a better way to do that, using !ubottu
<bluesabre> ^ SkippersBoss
<bluesabre> (From earlier, in case the person I'm looking for missed it...)
<bluesabre> Question... what needs to be in the .desktop file to add it to the Settings Manager?
<bluesabre> I'm trying to add MenuLibre to the Settings Manager.  It currently is available in Ubuntu's Settings Manager too, so this string is quite long for that reason...
<bluesabre> Categories=XFCE;GNOME;GTK;System;Settings;X-GNOME-Settings-Panel;X-GNOME-PersonalSettings;DesktopSettings;X-XFCE;
<Unit193> Categories=GNOME;X-XFCE;Settings;DesktopSettings; Works for Xfce settings manager.
<ochosi> mr_pouit: can we please pull this fix for abiword? http://bugzilla.abisource.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13301
<ubottu> bugzilla.abisource.com bug 13301 in Front End - GTK "AbiWord 2.9.2 Ruler widget looks bad in GTK3" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<mr_pouit> :>
<mr_pouit> ochosi: if it involves uploading a new snapshot, not for me before FF :3 (if it's just a patch I'll do it tonight after catfish & lightdm-gtk-greeter)
<ochosi> mr_pouit: right, since i wasn't able to browse their svn online i don't know yet, couldn't look at the changes...
<mr_pouit> indicator-sound (12.10.0-0ubuntu2) quantal; urgency=low
<mr_pouit> * Drop GTK2 build since ido stopped providing support for that version
<mr_pouit> one day before feature freeze \o/
<ochosi> :(
<mr_pouit> how nice
<ochosi> a**holes
<ochosi> so we have to drop indicator-sound i guess?
<ochosi> or can we upload a separate version from 12.04?
<mr_pouit> I've given up with seb128 a long time ago, I'll let knome talk with the release team
<ochosi> mhm, sounds ok
<mr_pouit> bah, that was scheduled
<mr_pouit> that would have been better to remove them earlier ;>
<ochosi> yeah, definitely
<mr_pouit> I'm gonna hate Xfce for not moving to gtk3
<ochosi> yes, we all will...
<ochosi> and i think the longer 4.12 will take the more they'll feel like moving to gtk3 for 4.12 after all
<ochosi> simply because gtk3 will feel more stable and consolidated then
<ochosi> (it already is tbh)
<ochosi> (although there are still theming issues with each new version)
<micahg> mr_pouit: do you have time to upload the gtk2 indicator stack renamed at some point (with FFe even)?
<mr_pouit> not before FF, but no problem otherwise
<mr_pouit> micahg: ^
<micahg> ok
<ochosi> will it still work?
<micahg> yeah
<ochosi> hmkay
<micahg> we're just bug/feature frozen
<ochosi> are there more indicators that are dropping gtk2 support last minute?
<micahg> well, assuming they didn't change the API in the latest version (which ted said they weren't going to do)
<mr_pouit> ahahahah (sorry, it's nervous)
<knome> humm?
<SkippersBoss> yoga again ?
<smartboyhw> yoga?
<knome> SkippersBoss, this ain't -offtopic :P
<smartboyhw> knome: Agree...
<SkippersBoss> not enough coffee in my system I do apologise (again)
<bluesabre> ochosi: For catfish, I suppose the desktop file patch could still apply, though I don't imagine that having "Encoding=UTF-8" in a desktop file would be a problem.  The other two patches are invalid.
<mr_pouit> bluesabre: even the last one to prevent a crash?
<mr_pouit> (Encoding=UTF-8 isn't an issue, it's deprecated, that's all)
<bluesabre> mr_pouit: Ah, I should probably add that to the main code then.  I thought load_icon fell back on the missing image code.
<bluesabre> We'll want to change the patch to work with python-gi
<bluesabre> from gi._glib import GError
<bluesabre> except GError
<bluesabre> Here we go
<bluesabre> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1160798/
<bluesabre> mr_pouit ^
<bluesabre> I can have that included for 0.4.0.1
<mr_pouit> bluesabre: also, please exclude .bzr from your next tarball :)
<bluesabre> Woops
<bluesabre> I'll be sure to make a note of that
<mr_pouit> thanks, I'll use the updated version of the patch when I upload the new catfish
<bluesabre> mr_pouit, Are you going to update the patch or should I crank out a bugfix release?
<mr_pouit> no, I can go with the patch, but if you're motivated enough for a new upstream release, do it :P
<mr_pouit> (after all, that means less work for me)
<bluesabre> mr_pouit, okay, you win.  0.4.0.1  https://launchpad.net/catfish-search
<knome> anybody here for the meeting?
<ochosi> o/
<smartboyhw> o/
 * genii-around makes coffee
<ochosi> knome: if you don't have time and if there aren't too many -devs around for team-updates, what about a lightning meeting? (==15mins)
<knome> yes, that sounds good
<knome> let me get some clothes on first...
<knome> #startmeeting Xubuntu comminty meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Aug 22 14:59:17 2012 UTC.  The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<knome> community too
<knome> #meetingtopic Xubuntu community meeting
<knome> #info this will be a lightning meeting for the lack of attendees and items in the agenda
<bluesabre> \o/
<knome> thus, we will not follow the usual agenda
<knome> #topic Open action items
<knome> #nick astraljava
<knome> #action astraljava to look into disabling compositor on live CD 
<meetingology> ACTION: astraljava to look into disabling compositor on live CD
<knome> #action xubuntu-team to investigate adding a screenlocker 
<meetingology> ACTION: xubuntu-team to investigate adding a screenlocker
<knome> #action xubuntu-team to investigate default settings for monitor power management 
<meetingology> ACTION: xubuntu-team to investigate default settings for monitor power management
<knome> #action xubuntu-team to add launchers specified in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Quantal/SettingsManagerApps to xfce settings manager 
<meetingology> ACTION: xubuntu-team to add launchers specified in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Quantal/SettingsManagerApps to xfce settings manager
<knome> #action xubuntu-team to make sure other "settings" launchers will show up if needed 
<meetingology> ACTION: xubuntu-team to make sure other "settings" launchers will show up if needed
<knome> that's it
<knome> #topic Other carried on items
<knome> looks like many of these are astraljava's, skipping those since he isn't around
<knome> #subtopic Strategy Document review
<GridCube> ._.
<knome> i know i promised to send yet another mail for reviewing the new SD
<knome> i didn't, but you are free to raise issues now, as promised
<knome> and we've really had quite a lot of time
<bluesabre> woops, real meeting here
<bluesabre> in the office
<bluesabre> bbl
<knome> exact wording might be revisited later, but is there any issues with the content?
<ochosi> it's been a while since i read it, but i think i'm fine with it
<GridCube> i havent seen any
<knome> i haven't seen any been raised either, so..
<GridCube> it seems pretty fine
<knome> let's have a quick vote whatsoever
<knome> +1 for yes, -1 for no
<knome> #vote Approve new Strategy Document
<meetingology> Please vote on: Approve new Strategy Document
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<ochosi> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from ochosi
<knome> -0, recusing myself as the main rewriter
<knome> -0
<knome> bah
<knome> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from knome
<smartboyhw> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from smartboyhw
<knome> then...
<GridCube> 0
<meetingology> 0 received from GridCube
<GridCube> i havent really apported to it so i cant comment further
<knome> GridCube, if possible, can you take a stance?
<GridCube> ok
<GridCube> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from GridCube
<mr_pouit> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from mr_pouit
<knome> if you've read it and it looks fine, i'd think it as +1
<knome> i'm mostly asking if there something like "i will get all the power i want" and you don't approve
<knome> oops, it was like that before
<knome> ;)
<knome> anybody else up for voting on the new strategy document?
<jjfrv8> Does the current version include my suggestions?
<knome> jjfrv8, iirc, those are about wording, and such?
<jjfrv8> Affirmative
<knome> jjfrv8, i haven't been able to go through those yet, but i will do that before making it public
<knome> so no, but will do
<jjfrv8> :-)
<knome> (grammar and that stuff isn't what we are voting, content is :))
<jjfrv8> Sorry.
<knome> no problem
<knome> good to have that sorted
<knome> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Approve new Strategy Document
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1
<meetingology> Motion carried
<smartboyhw> YEAH
<knome> #action knome to make the new SD public after doing final review on grammar etc.
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to make the new SD public after doing final review on grammar etc.
<knome> #topic Team updates
<knome> just go wild, let's not go by category
<knome> (and please remember to use #info)
<ochosi> #info greybird from git master should currently be bug-free with quantal
 * knome is afk here and there, but will follow
<ochosi> #info patches for gtk3.5 were pulled from the respective branch, plus a few new fixes. testing it is highly encouraged!
<ochosi> #info bluebird and albatross need more testing
<ochosi> #info parole got a new maintenance release (0.3.0.3) and catfish got a new release (0.4.0)
<mr_pouit> #info fixed crash in Thunar; uploaded parole 0.3.0.[0123]; cleaned up xubuntu-artwork from pre-precise themes and stuff
<mr_pouit> (will upload catfish tonight)
<knome> #info bug #1001936 fixed for .1
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1001936 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu Quantal) "GTK3 Grab/Move Triggered on Mouse Click" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1001936
<knome> #info docs rewrite is going forward at http://dagobah.princessleia.com/Xubuntu/12.10
<knome> #topic Announcements
<knome> #info FEATURE FREEZE is TOMORROW (21UTC)
<knome> #info USER INTERFACE FREEZE is Aug 30th
<knome> #info BETA 1 FREEZE is Aug 30th
<knome> #info 12.04.1 will be released TOMORROW
<knome> #info all dates in the quantal (and precise SRU) schedule can be found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseSchedule
<knome> #topic Other items
<GridCube> no other topics?
<bluesabre> #info keyboard-shortcuts-overlay will be postponed
<bluesabre> Due to lack of time to test and finish it
<knome> yeah, i suppose that's POSTPONED
<knome> (the blueprint work items, and the BP)
<bluesabre> Yeah, I'll try to update those shortly
<knome> i thought i did that
<knome> if they are not, feel free to
<knome> :)
<knome> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Aug 22 15:25:25 2012 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2012/xubuntu-devel.2012-08-22-14.59.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2012/xubuntu-devel.2012-08-22-14.59.html
<knome> thanks, and sorry
<smartboyhw> Thanks
<knome> i'll update the minutes later
<pleia2> sorry I missed the meeting
<mr_pouit> bluesabre: what modules does catfish need? (except python-gi which is mandatory)
<mr_pouit> I don't get any result here :/
<bluesabre> mr_pouit: I think that's the only required one
<bluesabre> python-xdg is strongly recommended
<mr_pouit> bluesabre: I think python-xdg is necessary to get any result :/
<mr_pouit> if I uninstall it, no result at all
<bluesabre> Ah
<bluesabre> Then I suppose
<bluesabre> python-xdg is required :)
<mr_pouit> Any idea why?
<bluesabre> xdg.Mime
<bluesabre> to get the mimetype
<bluesabre> to display the proper icon and such
<mr_pouit> no, I mean: why do I get zero result without it? :P
<bluesabre> Ah
<bluesabre> One sec
<bluesabre> Well, tbh, it's because of the new mimetype filter more than likely
<bluesabre> Since mime=None more than likely
<mr_pouit> okay, I'll move python-xdg to Depends
<bluesabre> Thanks
<bluesabre> I think that's the reason
<bluesabre> But that should fix it :)
<mr_pouit> bluesabre: and uploaded, thanks :)
<bluesabre> Yay!
<knome> alternate images for .1 have been rebuilt.
<knome> (should be.)
#xubuntu-devel 2012-08-23
<Akusari> Hi folks :-) I love xubuntu :-)
<smartboyhw> Akusari: Great
<Akusari> It's the best for netbooks like my one
<Akusari> Eclipse runs sooo smoothly - Just fun#
<mr_pouit> micahg: fyi, libido/gtk2 is gone as well, and apparently it's normal "because it's not a public library"
<mr_pouit> I'm not sure it's reasonable to go on with indicators if we end up with reuploading all the gtk2 stack
<mr_pouit> okay, it's only libido, so it's probably fine
<GridCube> knome, question: in http://xubuntu.org/news/faq-1204-precise/ faq 1 recommends people to check if gcfs-backends is installed. Why would it not be? i mean if its essential to use samba shares wont it be useful to have it preinstalled?
<GridCube> i find it interesting that we are recommending them to do check if its installed, when knowing its not by default.
<mr_pouit> GridCube: it wasn't installed by mistake in 11.10 (that was fixed in -updates and later releases)
<GridCube> o:
<GridCube> okay then :)
<GridCube> I was jus re-reading the faqs to start working on new ones and that one strike my interest 
<mr_pouit> for 12.04+ it should be installed by default, so yeah you can probably drop this sentence :P
<GridCube> you know, thats a thing that happens when you re-read something you wrote ages ago, you go like... wait.. why did i wrote that that way...
<smartboyhw> Anyone testing Xubuntu Alternate images now??? (for 12.04.1) No testers!
<micahg> mr_pouit: well, it's us, mythbuntu (they don't care as they're not releasing), and Ubuntu Studio, I don't see we have much of a choice unless we drop indicator support (which is a regression in functionality that will hopefully be solved by a GTK3 port before the LTS)
<ochosi> yeah, dropping indicator support would kinda suck. i mean we "simulated" the potential backdraws already 2 releases ago, and the trayicon-fallback mode of most apps has most likely become even worse since then...
<ochosi> micahg, mr_pouit ^
<knome> we need tests for alternates
<knome> people can run those?
<smartboyhw> knome: I am doing these
<smartboyhw> Leave that to me:)
<smartboyhw> Tested amd64, now i386
<knome> okay, thanks
<smartboyhw> :)
<mr_pouit> smartboyhw: are you interested in contributing to lightdm-gtk-greeter (or help maintaining it)? I think you asked to join the lp team, so I wonder :P
<smartboyhw> Sure, I can
<ochosi> ooh, now we're talking :)
<smartboyhw> :)
<mr_pouit> smartboyhw: ochosi will send you lots of requests, are you still in? :P
 * mr_pouit runs
<smartboyhw> :P
<smartboyhw> Still here
 * smartboyhw trys to run, but needs to stick here to update knome on 12.04.1 alternate images testing:)
<ochosi> smartboyhw: have you looked at the source yet?
<smartboyhw> ochosi: No, will look at tmr:)
<ochosi> ok :)
<ochosi> some changes are easy and just require changing options in the .ui file
<ochosi> others might be more interesting
<smartboyhw> Hmm
<smartboyhw> knome: I tested the alternates
<knome> smartboyhw, ok, thanks
<smartboyhw> knome: Thanks
<knome> pleia2, morning!
<smartboyhw> knome: What happened to the upgrade testcases???
<knome> no idea
<knome> haven't been monitoring them
<smartboyhw> No human tested it
<smartboyhw> :(
<knome> ok, we need two more upgrade test
<knome> i can run one of two
<knome> eh, one or two
<smartboyhw> No for me.
<knome> anybody able to run an upgrade test from oneiric to precise on amd64?
<smartboyhw> knome: It looks like as if you're on your own:(
<knome> we didn't wait for a minute yet
<knome> just be patient
<smartboyhw> :)
<r0n__> upgrade to 12.04 done, without problems.
<r0n__> upgrade from 12.04 to 12.04.1 done, without problems. (sorry)
<r0n__> The updates on 12.10 form yesterday has a bug, there is no speaker on my screen anymore :-)
<knome> mr_pouit, what's the status with the 4.10 blueprint? rdeps?
<knome> ochosi, can you check if the work item statuses are correct in https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-q-xubuntu-elementary-xfce ?
<knome> ochosi, also, should we just postpone https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-q-xubuntu-new-plymouth ?
<knome> ochosi, or are you planning some updates to it
<ochosi> i have no clue how plymouth animations work
<ochosi>  so, no
<ochosi> -> postpone
<knome> mmkay
<ochosi> the icons workitems are correct (unfortunately)
<ochosi> i really need that vbox
<ochosi> probably more important than doing your testcase :)
<knome> well, UIF is next week
<knome> 12.04.1 release is today
<knome> we just can't sign off the release without doing at least the lucid->precise updates
<ochosi> meh
<ochosi> ok
<knome> and the vbox for that is deletable right after the test
<ochosi> yeah yeah, i know
<ochosi> it's just so time-consuming
<ochosi> anyway
<ochosi> i386 or amd64?
<knome> r0n__, it's from 11.10 to 12.04(.1), not 12.04 to 12.04.1
<knome> urr, i'm running 10.04->12.04 amd64 soon
<knome> so maybe i386
<knome> since gridcube dropped too
<ochosi> ok
<knome> now don't confuse me too much. :)
<r0n__> Sorry, than I'm away ...... tnx for the ggood work,
<ochosi> i assume it doesn't matter whether i use alternate or desktop for 11.10?
<knome> no.
<knome> but please do 10.04 ->
<knome> (actually)
<ochosi> wootÃ
<knome> because gc is off
<ochosi> so two upgrades?
<knome> yeah, i know i said something else before
<knome> well, one is fine
<knome> rather do 10.04 than 11.10
<ochosi> so not up to 12.04?
<knome> 10.04 to 12.04 .
<knome> that's the LTS route
<ochosi> now you're confusing me entirely
<ochosi> i shall upgrade from 10.04 to 11.10 and that's it?
<knome> no.
<knome> from 10.04 to 12.04
<knome> LTS->LTS
<knome> and that's it.
<ochosi> quote: 18:12  knome$ rather do 10.04 than 11.10
<knome> and i386.
<knome> yes
<ochosi> ah right
<knome> rather update FROM 10.04 than 11.10
<knome> :)
<ochosi> now i get what you meant :p
<knome> hehe
<knome> good
<ochosi> ok, i'm on it
<ochosi> knome: btw, imre sent me a screenshot of a bg he proposes for the launcher panel
<knome> ok
<ochosi> http://imagebin.org/225596
<ochosi> a bit too metallic for me, but i like the resemblance to the website
<ochosi> (i mean: i think that's a good idea)
<knome> i like that more than the one you did
<ochosi> i didn't do the other one
<knome> maybe rethink the white shade at top
<knome> oh
<knome> ?
<ochosi> that's why i never pushed it
<knome> :P
<knome> aha
<ochosi> got it from the interwebs :)
<knome> ok
<knome> from that, i'd maybe tune down the stripes at the top
<ochosi> ok, i sent him another email asking for the image
<knome> if you understand what i mean
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> i think that's what i meant with "metallic look"
<ochosi> do you wanna play with it a bit?
<knome> i can, when/if he sends the image file
<ochosi> (i don't have time right now, i'm doing a testcase, you know :) )
<knome> yeah, the same
<knome> i should run at least one
<knome> eh, two of course.
<ochosi> you can modify the png if you want
<ochosi> i think it's wide enough without launchers on it
<knome> realistically, wait until 21UTC
<knome> then maybe
<knome> ochosi, btw, can you go to the iso tracker and mark the test "in progress"
<ochosi> link?
<knome> wait
<knome> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/230/builds/21384/testcases/1259/results
<knome> so add a test result with result "in progress"
<knome> then edit it later
<knome> :)
<ochosi> done
<knome> thanks
<ochosi> np
<ochosi> knome: the upgrade from 10.04.2 is fine?
<knome> yes, of course
<ochosi> (couldn't find 10.04 on the release page)
<ochosi> k
<knome> that's where people should be anyway
<knome> you might also need to install "a few updates" :P
<knome> like, 300..
<ochosi> my poor isp
<knome> haha
<knome> well, say that to my isp
<knome> i have lucid upgrading
<knome> soon oneiric
<knome> and i dl'ded 3 isos already
<ochosi> knome: i'm going out in ~1.5hrs, we'll see if the testcase is finished till then...
<ochosi> (still installing 10.04)
<knome> hopefully it is.
<ochosi> yeah, can't promise...
<knome> i wouldn't mind doing that too (though i will if you can't)
<knome> upgrading both 11.10 and 10.04 now ;)
<ochosi> sounds like fun
<knome> it's quite fun, actually
<knome> without *having* to do it, i'd enjoy it more though
<ochosi> heh
<ochosi> does it help if i tell you you don't have to do it? :)
<knome> lol
<knome> no, because skaet and stgraber tell me to get it done
<ochosi> knome: brrr, gdm2 ...
<knome> ochosi, haha
<ochosi> sry, but really, 12.04 looks far nicer than 10.04 :}
<knome> it does, i agree
<ochosi> but it's nice to be reminded of the old days
<knome> is it?
<knome> :D
<knome> a friend still uses 10.04, waiting for the lts upgrade path
<knome> hrrr
<ochosi> whoa, you have patient friends
<knome> ;)
<knome> or busy friends with production machines they have no time to fix every 6 months ;)
<ochosi> dl-ing the 233 upgrades for 10.04 now
<knome> ok, both amd64 systems are now upgrading packages
<knome> actually
<knome> you could cancel
<knome> and just do 'sudo update-manager -d'
<knome> that should work too
<ochosi> only takes 5mins
<knome> ok
<knome> ;)
<knome> downloading the 11.10 i386 desktop iso now
<knome> my lucid will upgrade like for 40mins
<knome> 2gb ram
<knome> (after getting the new packages of course)
<ochosi> 10.04 reminds me that the update-manager hasn't changed at all since then
<knome> ;)
<ochosi> although i saw it will for 12.10
<ochosi> didn't look very promising though
<knome> mmh
<knome> ochosi, status?
<ochosi> knome: installing upgrades (currently kernel)
<ochosi> "please wait, this can take some time"
<knome> meh
<knome> still
<knome> 5 mins yeah ;)
<knome> i'll start downloading the lucid i386 image...
<knome> :P
<drc> A watched update never ends :(
<knome> hah
<knome> well, it has to catch 2 years"
<knome> s/"/!/
<knome> 11.10 looks good :)
<knome> well, relatively
<ochosi> update done, restarting now
<knome> good
<ochosi> guess the lightdm-greeter mockups will have to wait... :/
<knome> yeah, sorry
<knome> 5mins remaining of the amd64 lucid->precise upgrade
<ochosi> apologize to the users, not to me! :)
<ochosi> upgrade running
<knome> the heart does not know to miss something the eyes haven't seen
<knome> so i believe we're ok
 * ochosi is stunned by the wiseness of knome
<knome> :)
<knome> 1min!
<ochosi> still setting software chans
<knome> mmh
<knome> it'll be tight
<ochosi> i just hope the mirrors are fast enough
<knome> if you have to go 18.15UTC
<knome> it'll be really tight.
<ochosi> oh man, getting packages (42mins remaining)...
<ochosi> :/
<knome> yeah...
<knome> can you leave the laptop on? :P
<ochosi> and write a script that will monitor and submit the results?
<knome> heh
<knome> take it with you
<ochosi> sure sure
<knome> you have time to download the stuff
<knome>  :P
<knome> just let it install
<knome> where are you going btw?
<ochosi> i always take my laptop with me when going out :p
<ochosi> meeting friends i haven't seen for quite a while
<knome> hmm.
<ochosi> everybody was travelling over the summer
<knome> why not? :P
<knome> just set it on the table
<knome> .
<knome> :D
<ochosi> meh, "WARNING: failed to read mirror file"
<knome> i'm hopeless
<knome> yeah, i had that too
<knome> ignore
<ochosi> yeah, but that might be the reason it's sooo slow
<knome> unless it failed the whole installation
<knome> pleia2, ?
<knome> pleia2, would you have time to write a short blog article telling 12.04.1 is out before 21UTC?
<pleia2> knome: no, really busy at work today
<knome> bleh
<knome> even if i asked REALLY nicely?
<pleia2> sorry
<knome> bleh. :)
<knome> i'll do that too then...
<knome> (and she calls herself the marketing lead, schuss)
<knome> ;)
<knome> (no seriously, it's fine, just kidding)
<knome> maybe we should just add more people to "active"
<knome> eh
<knome> wrong window
<knome> :P
<ochosi> getting new packages: 29mins remaining...
<ochosi> (922 of 1524)
<knome> meh
<mr_pouit> knome: do you have a ne terminalrc for me?
<mr_pouit> *new
<knome> mr_pouit, not right now
<knome> mr_pouit, i'll provide you that on the weekend if not before
<ochosi> knome: between 15 and 25 mins remaining
<knome> can you confirm something
<knome> isn't it so that people using 12.04 will just get normal upgrades
<knome> and they are at 12.04.1
<knome> eg. no specific "upgrade now" dialog
<mr_pouit> knome: ok
<knome> thanks for the understanding :P
<knome> pleia2, mr_pouit, ochosi: can you review http://xubuntu.org/?p=1372&preview=true
<knome> (need to be logged in)
<ochosi> errm
<knome> wut?
<ochosi> "Users on 12.04 should get an upgrade notification when booting their systems up the next time." ?
<ochosi> shouldn't that read 10.04?
<knome> feel free to fix it
<knome> it's just a big brainfart
<ochosi> well, not very big
<knome> ;)
<knome> true
<ochosi> 7mins remaining
<knome> download or intall?
<ochosi> then it'll install the upgrade... :(
<knome> install too
<knome> i'm actually at downloading new packages now too
<knome> yes, i'm hyperactive
<knome> about 13 mins remaining :)
<ochosi> i can't even imagine how hard the user-xp breaks from ubuntu 10.04 to 12.04
<ochosi> in comparison the transition is really smooth in xubuntu
<knome> btw, looks like the local univ of applied sciences are having an assignment to install xubuntu
<knome> we're getting a few trackbacks already...
<ochosi> try to get a few contributors out of that
<knome> maybe we should contact them and ask whether they'd like us to write about it
<knome> lol
<knome> I. WON'T.
<knome> if they are at the same level as the few trainees we had from there... ugh
<ochosi> <1min remaining
 * ochosi is getting excited
<knome> 10 here
<knome> yeah, the pkg installation takes some time too
<ochosi> well thanks for the heads-up, it's really my first upgrade, you know
<ochosi> uu, installing now
<knome> hmm
<knome> that seems to be "linux as a server" of sth course
<knome> i'll bookmark the leaders blog entry
<ochosi> hm, the installer doesn't give me any estimate of how long it'll take
<knome> it should, at some point
<ochosi> 1hr 6mins
<knome> :|
<ochosi> yeah, lol
<ochosi> 1hr nw
<knome> yeah, it should accelerate
<ochosi> let's hope it continues at that speed
<mr_pouit> knome: do I have an account on xubuntu.org?
<knome> i think it said something like 1h 30mins for me at start
<knome> mr_pouit, you should be able to log, since you are in the xubuntu-team
<knome> just go to xubuntu.org/wp-admin and ubuntu SSO should get you in
<mr_pouit> yeah, that works
<knome> logging, or the article?
<mr_pouit> both :p
<knome> ok
<knome> seriously! the installation was stuck. when i hovered my mouse over the vbox window, it shows me a dialog immediately. why not before!
<knome> haha, 3h 30mins..
<ochosi> 2hrs 13mins
<knome> 1h 34mins :D
<knome> i assigned 2gb ram..
<ochosi> too late for that now
<knome> hehe, yeah... :)=
<ochosi> not sure i can wait so long...
<knome> yeah, it's ok if not
<ochosi> i should've left 15mins ago
<knome> i'll run it anyway.
<ochosi> mkay
<ochosi> still, it kinda sucks
<knome> have fun with friends :)
<knome> yeah, i know
<ochosi> i mean i did get quite far
 * knome scores 4/4
<knome> :P
<ochosi> but there's still 1hr50mins to go
<ochosi> heh
<ochosi> yeah, there are days when you have to live with 3/4
<knome> ;)
<knome> yeah
<knome> but i meant four testcases :P
<knome> not steps
<ochosi> ah right :D
<knome> (yeah...)
<knome> 52mins
<ochosi> meh, i could've downloaded and installed quantal in that time... :)
<knome> looks like i'd still be ready way before you
<knome> lol
<ochosi> 1hr37
<knome> i like the lucid wallpaper, but the panels are uglyish
<ochosi> yeah, and the icons..
<knome> even albatross has stood the time quite well
<knome> heh, that too
<ochosi> especially the tray
<knome> mmh, well, panel as a whole
<knome> the icons on desktop are ok
<ochosi> so should we schedule the ubiquity-slideshow revamp for next week?
<ochosi> or at least update the screenshots
<knome> yes, definitely.
<knome> but we also need to finish the docs next week
<knome> :P
<knome> and the rest of the UI stuff
<knome> heh, 29mins...
<ochosi> greybird is ready apart from the lightdm style
<knome> looks like this is going really fast
<knome> looks like it's good for the progress that i'm not running 2/3 parallel :P
<ochosi> but if someone could test bluebird and albatross, that'd be good
<ochosi> not sure they're both ready for gtk3.5...
<knome> i can say that i can do that if i have time, but you know what that means
<ochosi> heh
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> un/fortunately
<knome> (i'll forget before monday, and you have to remind me during the week, and then on thursday you shout to me and i will test them for 5 mins...)
<knome> and that's as useful as nothing
<knome> ;)
<knome> or maybe i'll find somethig that you don't even think is a bug, but i *totally* want fixed
<knome> so probably even better if i don't test them.
<ochosi> 1hr remaining
<knome> 13mins ;)
<ochosi> g2g now
<knome> have fun!
<ochosi> you too
<knome> will do
<ochosi> talk to you tomorrow!
<knome> yup!
<knome> i didn't realize it, but if you name your vbox virtual machines with "/" on them, it will create subdirectories
<knome> that's logical, but still awesome to notice that at this time... :)
<ochosi> heh
<knome> i'm off in 10, so if somebody needs to talk with me about something, do it now
<knome> pleia2, you here?
<knome> ok, i'm off
<knome> see you later.
<knome> 2:10 notice < queuebot:#ubuntu-release: Builds: Upgrade Xubuntu amd64 [Precise 12.04.1] has been marked as ready
<knome> 22:10 notice < queuebot:#ubuntu-release: Builds: Upgrade Xubuntu i386 [Precise 12.04.1] has been marked as ready
<pleia2> knome: sorry, today has been crazy work-wise
<pleia2> post looks fine, short and sweet :)
<pleia2> my while-on-train plans this evening are to merge our About pages, so I should have that for review by tomorrow
<knome> pleia2, shiny!
<knome> pleia2, i gathered from our backlogs that a finnish univ of applied sciences course has "install xubuntu" as one of their tasks, and they will be using linux throughout the course. i'm contacing the course leader asking if he's willing to let us write an article and if he was willing to do some small-scale cooperation too
<pleia2> cool :D
<knome> mr_pouit, bug #1040902
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1040902 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Add launchers to Xfce Settings manager " [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1040902
<knome> mr_pouit, if you need more information, kick me (gently)
<drc> Just out of curiosity, wht is QT and WINE config launchers required for Xubuntu/XFCE?
<drc> s/wht/why/
<Unit193> Just so they'll show up in the settings manager, won't be installed or show by default.
<drc> ah, thanks
<Unit193> Plenty of people use both of those I'd say, so it's be nice if they show up with the rest of the config. :P
<SkippersBoss> yep yep yep. virtual box is working. loading alpha 3 now
<micahg> ochosi: I think we can manage the indicator gtk2 stack for now, but I hope we can get a gtk3 version of the panel soonish, otherwise, this will be problematic
<knome> hey micahg :)
<knome> enjoying the holiday?
<micahg> yeah, for once I'm not working that much :)
<knome> that's awesome
<pleia2> no it's not, saying "not working at all" is awesome! (I'll try it some time, maybe)
<knome> heh
<knome> gah, there's something wrong here
<SkippersBoss> pleia2 not working ?? now why can i not believe that. 
<pleia2> I spent some time on a beach in puerto rico last year :)
<SkippersBoss> We are aware that the opening screen of the 12.1 installer still says 12.04 lts ??
<SkippersBoss> /dev/some
<pleia2> if it's the same one, I submitted a bug
 * pleia2 checks
<SkippersBoss> ok
<pleia2> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-artwork/+bug/1029128
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1029128 in xubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "Displays "Xubuntu 12.04" on bootup rather than 12.10" [High,Fix released]
<SkippersBoss> ok ??
<SkippersBoss> I was merely asking
<pleia2> is that the same?
<SkippersBoss> Could very wel be. was in the art-work. alpha iso not been amended :-)
<pleia2> ok :) I haven't tried since this bug was fix released
<SkippersBoss> Not a major isssue
<SkippersBoss> got my alpha of a mirror. so could be an old iso
#xubuntu-devel 2012-08-24
<ochosi> micahg: i'm pessimistic about "soonish", but we'll see..
<ochosi> bbl
<mr_pouit> knome: I supposed someone had been working on that blueprint and could give me .desktop files =]
<mr_pouit>  indicator-application-gtk2 : Depends: indicator-application (= 0.5.0-0ubuntu1) but 12.10.0-0ubuntu2 is to be installed
<mr_pouit>  indicator-sound-gtk2 : Depends: indicator-sound (= 12.10.0-0ubuntu1) but it is not going to be installed
<mr_pouit> micahg: ^ dailies fail to build, I guess that's why gilir dropped the indicators
<ochosi> knome: i see you finished the testcase yesterday. well done
<knome> Unit193, can you send mr_pouit the .desktop files? :]
<knome> got a reply from the guy running the linux-classes with xubuntu. he says they're excited about xubuntu and will happily cooperate
<knome> pleia2, ^
<knome> bluesabre, hey!
<bluesabre> Hiya knome!
<knome> bluesabre, PM ok? :)
<smartboyhw> knome: Eventually, is there only you to test the upgrade?:)
<smartboyhw> I mean 12.04.1
<bluesabre> PM..?
<knome> smartboyhw, yes, i did all the tests, and there was one test done by somebody else
<bluesabre> (private message?)
<knome> bluesabre, private message, /q
<smartboyhw> :)
<smartboyhw> o/ genii-around
<knome> bluesabre, motion carried :)
<knome> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2012-August/008382.html
 * genii-around makes more coffee
<smartboyhw> knome: :)
<bluesabre> Yay!
<smartboyhw> Congrats bluesabre:)
<knome> mr_pouit, next thing is to get him some push rights to the xubuntu-set... :)
<smartboyhw> Just got the e-mail:)
<GridCube> Congrats bluesabre :D
<knome> bluesabre, i'm suggesting you'll apply for a ubuntu membership :)
<knome> err, suggesting you to
<smartboyhw> bluesabre: Yay, give me your wiki and I'm write a testimonial for you:)
<knome> bluesabre, that should be a trivial task now...
<bluesabre> knome: How do I apply for ubuntu membership?
<knome> bluesabre, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership
<bluesabre> Cool
<bluesabre> I'll do that now :)
<knome> bluesabre, basically, you write a wiki page of what you've done, ask for a few testimonials and go to a membership board meeting
<knome> bluesabre, if they approve you, you get a ubuntu member IRC cloak as well as a "lpnick@ubuntu.com" email address
<smartboyhw> bluesabre: You do have a wiki page?
<bluesabre> Doesn't sound too painful.
<knome> bluesabre, and, well, +1 for applying for sponsorship for UDS and all that stuff... :)
<bluesabre> I don't have a wiki page yet.
<smartboyhw> bluesabre: I'm not a member, and I do have one:)
<bluesabre> Or if I do, I didn't make it :)
<knome> bluesabre, lol :)
<GridCube> i dont have an ubuntu membership :(
<knome> GridCube, go get one tiger.
<knome> :)
<smartboyhw> GridCube: Get one:)
<smartboyhw> I'll wait till Dec to get one, I'm new:)
<GridCube> :P but i havent done much to ubuntu besides bother people on -devel channels
<knome> GridCube, giving user support counts too
<GridCube> :D that i do do
<smartboyhw> GridCube: :D
<knome> GridCube, and testing.
<knome> GridCube, and bug triage-related stuff
<knome> GridCube, and creating a FAQ
<smartboyhw> GridCube, and documentation
<GridCube> :P
<GridCube> no, i didnt do documentation
<smartboyhw> GridCube: That's enough to gain you a membership:)
<GridCube> :D awesome
<smartboyhw> :D
<knome> GridCube, you can now, we're rewriting ;)
<GridCube> i already have a wiki page tho :P
<smartboyhw> knome: Can I have your wiki page?
<knome> "have my wiki page" ?:P
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PasiLallinaho/
<knome> and my page for running for the XPL https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PasiLallinaho/XPL
<smartboyhw> What's XPL?
<knome> xubuntu project lead
<smartboyhw> Ah.
<smartboyhw> Ow man, when will Ubuntu 11.10 finish install/
<smartboyhw> knome: How long did astraljava did testing and QA for Xubuntu? Just want to know:)
<knome> smartboyhw, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2012-June/008242.html and https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2012-June/008247.html officially, but he was active before that, and that's why he was made the QA lead
<smartboyhw> Wow.
<knome> wow what
<smartboyhw> knome: Wow on astraljava and your work:)
<knome> thanks
<bluesabre> Here's my wiki page now.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SeanDavis
<smartboyhw> That's quick:)
<knome> i'll take the first lock.
<smartboyhw> knome: You mean look?
<knome> no, lock.
<knome> i'm editing the page, and you can't. that's a lock.
<smartboyhw> Oh
<smartboyhw> BTW, added a testimonial already:)
<bluesabre> Thanks smartboyhw
<knome> smartboyhw, did you know that testimonials for these kind of things are usually given by senior community members to the junior members, or those applying to be one?
<smartboyhw> :)
<smartboyhw> Kidding: Someone write ME a testimonial:)
<knome> smartboyhw, continue contributing to testing as you've done now, and i will some day.
<smartboyhw> Thanks
<elfy> anyone know what the state of the docs is at the moment - don't want to start duplicating effort
<knome> state? :)
<smartboyhw> Status.
<knome> smartboyhw, i know
<knome> elfy, in what sense?
<knome> elfy, i believe people working with it are constantly sending their updates to the wiki, so it should be as it looks like :)
<elfy> knome: :) in the - which one's are in need of work - has there been any sort of record kept about what's been done 
<knome> the wiki serves us that
<elfy> ok - so it's still - look and fix as you see things 
<knome> yes, it will be that until we convert to docbook
<elfy> okey doke
<knome> and we will let you know once we do
<knome> (not planned yet)
<elfy> I don't want to start doing things someone else is half way through basically
<knome> if you know about the internet stuff (how to connect/troubleshoot different ways), that would be good to get in shape
<knome> eg. the "Internet and Networks" section under "Quick guide to default applications"
<knome> (which is a bit weird place, but we can fix that later)
<elfy> yea - I am not good at that stuff - I've never really had a need - but I will look at existing and see what I can do then
<knome> ah, in that case probably look at something else
<knome> this needs to be correct, since this documentation might be everything somebody has, because he can't connect to internet
<knome> even i am not confident enough to go poking, yet
<elfy> ok - 2 minutes and I will have a look at the new wiki stuff and come back 
<knome> sure
<elfy> knome - I'll take section 8, check section 11 and make a start on section 12 
<knome> elfy, awesome
<elfy> now - suspending/hibernating for instance - hibernate is disabled - so do we assume that the manual should ONLY deal with default setup 
<knome> elfy, if you want, you can add a short notification at the start of those pages
<elfy> yea - that makes sense 
<knome> elfy, yeah. and i just looked at that page too; i don't know if it makes sense to basically say "if you have problems, file a bug or restart the computer"
<elfy> lol
<knome> so consider dropping that.. :P
<elfy> :)
<elfy> ok - so I have my little list of jobs then ... I assume that waht you are aiming at is not so much information someone would just think - what? I'm new - what does that mean? and enough to get them working and able to dig further elsewhere if they want 
<knome> yes
<elfy> excellent 
<knome> we should link to applications' own docs as much as possible
<knome> no reason to duplicate information and make our maintaining burden bigger
<elfy> yep
<knome> i'm hoping it is realistically possible to update the docs every release after this rewrite
<elfy> yea - I would suggest that if that is the plan - then a doc somewhere with the index - so people can put name against things 
<knome> well
<knome> updating the docs every release after the rewrite should be such an easy thing that one person is able to do that
<elfy> knome: if this set of docs is well written then 6 month release should be a piece of cake
<elfy> yea - just got there :)
<knome> exactly
<knome> being relatively short helps too
<elfy> yep
<knome> doesn't look too big task either
<smartboyhw> unless you got a big change:)
<knome> smartboyhw, yes, but even then there isn't much to rewrite.
<elfy> yea - big pile makes it easier to think - tomorrow perhaps, don't have the time now
<elfy> talking of which - at some point one of the xubuntu.org pages could do with a little fiddle - who's best person to talk to about that?
<knome> smartboyhw, think about rewriting one page of the changed feature versus rewriting 10 pages of the changed feature
<knome> elfy, tell me which page
<knome> elfy, i am, or pleia2 
<elfy> http://xubuntu.org/help/
<smartboyhw> knome: :)
<knome> elfy, yeah, do you mean just to include the offline docs, or something else too?
<elfy> online forums etc the forum bit knome - at the moment says "mention in your post that you are using Xubuntu." can be amended 
<elfy> tell them to use the Tag system - there are xfce and Xubuntu tags available 
<knome> elfy, would you be willing to do the rewrite part? if yes, just send me email with the new text and i'll update
<elfy> ok - I will do that and e-maill you it 
<elfy> right - I shall get on with something now then 
<knome> e thanks :)
<knome> +lfy,
<elfy> welcome k
<elfy> nome
<knome> ;)
<elfy> :)
<knome> meh, i promised my wife to get out of the house today
<elfy> best get a move on then lol 
<knome> haha
<knome> soon...
<knome> she's at work, so no schedule :P just promised to go out... ;)
<elfy> :) I have just delivered little one to her mum - have whole weekend of peace 
<knome> could take the garbage out and go for a walk
<knome> congrats
 * knome slept almost until 15
<knome> have been awake for about three hours now :P
<elfy> blimey - I've had a mad couple of days tbh - not sure where I was at all
<knome> haha
<smartboyhw> knome: Is astraljava on holiday these days?
<knome> smartboyhw, no, i'm sure he's working like a mad
<smartboyhw> knome: OK, wanted to ask him about a upgrade testcase in 12.10 for Ubuntu Studio:)
<knome> good luck in getting a hold of him
<smartboyhw> knome: Am I wrong, or are you a Testcase Admin?
<knome> i am
<smartboyhw> I am just two days ago:)
<knome> bluesabre, you probably want to mention menulibre and any postponed projects for Q too in your wiki page
<sj> Hi, I just joined the xubuntu-devel mailing list and had a quick look through the launchpad bug list, I was wondering if there's a wiki page to get started fixing bugs
<sj> Or if anyone would like to mentor me
<smartboyhw> You mean http://xubuntu.org/contribute/development/?
<knome> sj, you might want to hang around at this channel for a while to get a grasp how the community works :)
<knome> sj, there's no specific list of bugs the xubuntu team works on, but any package with xubuntu or xfce in their name are a good start
<sj> knome yeah certainly. smartboyhw, I've read all the related pages from there.
<sj> knome: ok, thanks
<smartboyhw> knome: Been looking at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Leaders I thought of one thing: Isn't elfy the doc lead?
<knome> smartboyhw, nope, the page is current
<smartboyhw> But there's no doc lead there...
<knome> smartboyhw, that's true
<smartboyhw> Now I'm confused??
<knome> the whole community just takes care of that
<bluesabre> knome, Yeah, I'm going to add MenuLibre and the other things :)
<smartboyhw> Oh
<knome> bluesabre, is the music on the menulibre video yours?
<bluesabre> knome, no, it's using YouTube's audio swap with CC-A music I believe
<knome> bluesabre, mmhmm :) nice choice though
<bluesabre> Usually I find CC-SA music on my own and add it, but I was lazy that day :D
<bluesabre> Thanks
<elfy> smartboyhw: I am nothing to do with xubuntu - other than hanging about and helping where and when I can 
<smartboyhw> :)
<knome> jjfrv8, read your comments on the strategy document yesterday and most of them are applied as is to strategydoc.knome.fi
<knome> jjfrv8, they were really helpful, thanks!
<jjfrv8> Great.  Glad I could contribute something.  Thanks.
<knome> of course. looking forward to your contributions to the docs if you are still up to it :)
<jjfrv8> Yup.  I'm still plugging away as we speak.
<knome> great
<micahg> mr_pouit: re dailies, yeah, lubuntu had the same issue, seems to me that those dependencies should be >= rather than = or something's fishy there
<micahg> \o/ alternates not oversized and desktop images down to 717/733
<knome> yay
<knome> but they are wondering if it's a bug :P
<Unit193> knome: Sure I could, anything other than the plain Xfce tag?  I haven't seen categories in the settings manager. >_>
<Unit193> Oh, and I'm going to be "social" this evening, so won't be on.
<knome> Unit193, can you elaborate with mr_pouit? he'll let you know what he needs, if anything. :)
<Unit193> He's scary. :3  But alrighty.  When is that needed in at the latest?
<knome> UIF
<knome> wait, ubuntu is going to drop alternative?
<holstein> interesting...
<knome> or alternate
<knome> :P
<knome> yeah.
<Unit193> What? Well that's not good.
<holstein> seems like there would be community support for one.. maybe just one minimal "netinstall" kind of alternate iso
<knome> well there is the minimal cd already!
<knome> !minimal
<ubottu> The Minimal CD image is very small in size, and it downloads most packages from the Internet during installation, allowing you to select only those you want (the installer is like the one on the !Alternate CD). See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/MinimalCD
 * pleia2 frowns at the wiki
<pleia2> no worky
<knome> meh
<knome> how's the about page?
<pleia2> http://princessleia.com/temp/about-xubuntu.txt
<pleia2> that's what I would have put in the wiki ;)
<pleia2> it merges the three, I think I got all the main points
<knome> why wiki?
<knome> why not the website
<knome> and remove the wikipage
<knome> wasn't that our idea anyway
<knome> silly girl
<pleia2> I am putting it on the wiki for review and edits
<pleia2> eventually the canonical one will be xubuntu.org/about
<pleia2> still drafting though :)
<knome> oh, the *canonical* one
 * knome giggles
<pleia2> littlt c
<pleia2> little too
<knome> i didn't know they were writing their own version too
<knome> yeah yeah
<knome> :P
<knome> i'm a bit against listing the application "categories"
<pleia2> where?
<knome> "...desktop offering that includes a variety of useful applications for every day use."
<knome> last paragraph, second sentence
<pleia2> ah
<pleia2> ok, can refresh
<knome> another one i'm thinking is if we want to mention Unity
<pleia2> also need to sort out pronouns, I think sometimes it's written as if we-the-project-members are writing it, and sometimes it's a bit more removed
<pleia2> "Xubuntu is" "We provide"
<pleia2> I'm leaning toward "Xubuntu is" "Xubuntu provides"
<knome> "...operating system. Xubuntu uses the Xfce DE and comes with a defaul set of..."
<knome> -typos
<knome> meh
<knome> http://www.typewith.me/p/x_about
<pleia2> :)
<knome> marking links with _link text_ for better readability
<pleia2> k
<knome> are we repeating ourselves?
<pleia2> in the last paragraph?
<knome> see the blue dots
<pleia2> there
<knome> yeah bot
<knome> but
<pleia2> oh that
<knome> read the first <p>
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> familiar/conservative?
<pleia2> familiar is too vague (familar to what?)
<knome> heh
<knome> conservative isn't without problems either
<pleia2> yeah
<pleia2> I think what we're trying to communicate easy, not hard to learn
<knome> eh, tautology
<knome> "immediately ready to use"
<knome> wait, what?
<knome> :D
<pleia2> ready to use
<pleia2> that's good
<knome> that's meh
<knome> :D
<knome> we use that in the sentence before
<pleia2> wait, we say ready to use just before that
<knome> yeah
<knome> we said "immediately ready to use"
<knome> :P
<pleia2> there
<knome> i'd say elegant, but
<knome> ;)
<pleia2> hehe
<knome> what about simple/straightforward?
<pleia2> oh right, what do we say in strat doc
<pleia2> yeah, straightforward
<knome> we need to change that too
<Sysi> put intuitive somewhere so we can start telling people how we're not copying os x because of unity
<knome> :P
<knome> i'm not sure if that belongs to the about page :P
<pleia2> i hate inuitive
<pleia2> if you read the unity list, you quickly learn that it means nothing :)
<pleia2> (also, don't read the unity list if you have better things to do, like watching tv)
<GridCube> or picking your nose
<knome> pleia2, ha! it just struck me
<knome> pleia2, read the mission statement and the target page at strategy document
<knome> whenever you hit "elegant", think "straightforward"
<pleia2> straightforward and ease of use are very similar
<knome> yes
<knome> but by straightforward, i mean: keeps out of the way
<pleia2> I think by elegant we were meaning we think it's pretty
<pleia2> or similarly nice
<knome> that too, partly
<knome> but polished is there too
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> i'll fix that
<pleia2> like, we're saying it's easy and not yucky to look at
<pleia2> (not 2nd choice for refugees :))
<knome> " This is why Xubuntu should be easy to use and have an elegant appearance that doesn't get in the way. "
<knome> in that, just remove 'elegant'
<knome> works?
<pleia2> I dunno, I'm in the "I like elegant" camp :)
<pleia2> I think it communicates what I want it to say
<knome> that's under " Focus 1: Usability "
<knome> maybe we can remove it there
<pleia2> fair enough
<knome> i like elegance too
<knome> the several nuances its telling are the reason why i picked it
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> http://strategydoc.knome.fi/target/
<pleia2> good
<knome> " It is important for us to provide a polished and unified product that is ready for our users. "
<knome> does that sentence suck a bit?
<pleia2> nah
<knome> ok.
<knome> ...ready for end-users ?
<knome> dunno.
<knome> we say so in the mission statement
<knome> Xubuntu delivers a polished and unified product ready for end-users.
<knome> ^MS
<pleia2> sure
<knome> with these changes, i'm ready to go public.
<pleia2> \o/
<mr_pouit> Unit193: xfce4-settings-manager 4.10 has categories
<mr_pouit> Personal/Hw/System, like you wrote on the wiki page
<mr_pouit> Unit193: just add the .desktop filename for each item, that's good enough for me :P
<mr_pouit> knome: anyway, that's related to the topic "do we want to drop the submenu and put everything in xfce4-settings-manager?" :)
<knome> :)
<Unit193> mr_pouit: I'll remove the compiz one and add all the ones I have in info, sound cool?  (I don't have compiz, or a couple others as they were ideas, but I may find them)
<knome> mr_pouit, the new SD is public ;)
<mr_pouit> yep, thanks (I only need the filename to add it to the settings manager, e.g. users.desktop :>)
<mr_pouit> knome: SD, as in Steve Dodier? :P
 * mr_pouit runs
<knome> haha
<knome> i wish i could make new steves
<knome> ;)
#xubuntu-devel 2012-08-25
<smartboyhw> knome: Are you here?
<ochosi> hey smartboyhw 
<ochosi> (i'm not knome though)
<smartboyhw> ochosi: Hey
<ochosi> just wanted to ask you 'bout lightdm greeter quickly
<ochosi> there were discussions with folks from lubuntu on cooperating on the greeter and its design
<ochosi> one guy created a wiki page with a few of the specifications
<ochosi> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/frankbooth/lightdm-gtk-greeter
<smartboyhw> ochosi: What do you mean?
<smartboyhw> OK, looking at it now
<ochosi> there are a few things i like about it, but others i rather dislike
<smartboyhw> Ha, good sketch
<ochosi> anyway, the main question was when approximately you would have time to work on it
<ochosi> just to know when mockups etc should be in palce
<ochosi> place
<smartboyhw> OK.
<ochosi> to get a plan, since UI freeze is pretty soon
<smartboyhw> ochosi: Is it in a weel?
<ochosi> and whatever we can get out the door before makes our lives easier
<smartboyhw> *week
<ochosi> yeah, approx
<ochosi> i think thursday
<ochosi> (off the top of my head)
<smartboyhw> Hmm....That's a disaster.
<ochosi> heh
<ochosi> no worries
<ochosi> we can file exceptions
<smartboyhw> ochosi: :)
<ochosi> what seems realistic for you
<smartboyhw> ochosi: What do you mean?
<ochosi> well i'm not sure what you discussed with mr_pouit, but i assumed you would work on implementing changes to the lightdm-gtk-greeter
<smartboyhw> ochosi: :)
<ochosi> soo?
<smartboyhw> I think I'll work on it:)
<ochosi> mkay
<ochosi> timeframe? :)
<Unit193> mr_pouit: Put package too https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Quantal/SettingsManagerApps
<smartboyhw> ochosi: Hi, I'm back
<ochosi> smartboyhw: okies
<ochosi> actually i have to leave in 4mins or so
<smartboyhw> :)
<ochosi> so, what would be a realistic timeframe/plan for you?
<ochosi> (or is it too early to say because you haven't looked at the code)
<smartboyhw> Hmm, I'm getting the source code first:)
<ochosi> sure sure
<ochosi> not sure what you've worked with, but most requests will involve tinkering with the .ui file (aka gtkbuilder aka glade-successor)
<smartboyhw> :)
<ochosi> e.g. moving the computer-name from the login-box to the top panel
<smartboyhw> OK
<ochosi> ok, gotta go now
<smartboyhw> Bye
<knome> pleia2, i bolded those sections/subpages that i consider "checked out"
<ochosi> knome: i'm considering to skip "Find unnecessary icons and remove"
<ochosi> it's really the hardest part of iconing, to find unused ones
<ochosi> you never know what icons are in use by what obscure app...
<knome> yeah, feel free to mark that as POSTPONED
<smartboyhw> Yo ochosi: How to edit the .ui file?
<ochosi> unless we decide to just trim down the icon-theme to a more minimal state
<ochosi> smartboyhw: install glade or with a text-editor
<smartboyhw> OK
<smartboyhw> ochosi: Working on it now:)
<ochosi> smartboyhw: ok, good luck :)
<smartboyhw> :)
<smartboyhw> knome: If you are here, I want to tell you a fact: The 12.10 ubiquity in Xubuntu, it sucks...
<knome> smartboyhw, justify
<ochosi> it will get better :)
<ochosi> right now it's a lot of black on black
<smartboyhw> ochosi: I agree
<ochosi> because greybird wasn't working right i think
<knome> okay. in that case it doesn't "suck", it has a bug
<smartboyhw> It;s full of black:(
<smartboyhw> Well, it looks it sucks. Sorry for using a nonsense word, it did look like that..
<knome> one of the best qualities when filing bugs or problems is to know how to describe the problem
<knome> "X isn't working" or "X sucks" is as helpful as nothing
<smartboyhw> Sorry: So should I file a bug on Launchpad?
<knome> probably not, since it's known, and people are working on it
<smartboyhw> I apologise
<smartboyhw> :)
<knome> np, just trying to not waste anybody's time
<elfy> talking of which - how to describe this one ... parole opens like this here http://imgur.com/8xTg1
<smartboyhw> Hi I am back. Ochosi, you still here?
<knome> smartboyhw, is there a problem?
<smartboyhw> I want to find ochosi.
<knome> for what reason?
<smartboyhw> knome: BTW, status report: Testing a Quantal build of Xubuntu now
<knome> okay
<smartboyhw> Anyway, I recalled he has left, Find
<smartboyhw> *Fine
<bluesabre> elfy, what's wrong with parole?  That image looks spot-on.
<elfy> really? 
<elfy> never used to look like that 
<bluesabre> Yeah, that's the new parole
<bluesabre> 0.3.x
<bluesabre> :)
<elfy> oh wow LOL
<elfy> I thought it was some graphic card glitch :)
<bluesabre> lol
<bluesabre> I think knome made that awesome background
<bluesabre> or ochosi
<bluesabre> One of those two
<knome> i did
<elfy> I almost reported a bug :)
<elfy> this morning - then thought I'd wait till I asked someone how to describe it - glad I did 
<bluesabre> Glad I caught you
<bluesabre> :D
<elfy> lol
<elfy> knome: now I know it's supposed to look like it - it's ok 
<knome> ;)
<knome> we thought that was a cool idea
<smartboyhw> OK, I need to add a bug to the ISO QA Tracker: VM does not reboot after installation:(
<elfy> missed that meeting :)
<knome> heh, that was at #shimmer i think
<elfy> anyway - me wanders off again now - thanks for catching that bluesabre :)
<elfy> cya all 
<knome> see you
<smartboyhw> knome: Reported a pass for the Quantal Daily Build amd64 (but with a VM reboot bug)
<knome> smartboyhw, ok, thanks. but please just report, no need to specifically tell me you did.
<smartboyhw> :)
<knome> pleia2, morning? :)
<knome> mr_pouit, micahg: can you drop synaptic off of our seed? ta
<pleia2> knome: hello
<knome> hai
<knome> you have a few mins?
<pleia2> sure
<knome> great!
<knome> so
<knome>   * Remove (or archive) xubuntu-website, rename xubuntu-website-wordpress to replace
<knome> thoughts?
<knome> should we just do that?
<pleia2> I don't know precisely how to go about it, the never-delete-anything part of me sort of wants to keep the code around even though it's for drupal5 ;)
<pleia2> but I don't know how we could do that, if we could
<knome> if we'd archive it, how would you like to go about it?
<knome> new branch under the other website code?
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> ok
<knome> i suppose we can do that if we ask LP admins nicely enough
<pleia2> so pull it down, delete the project, move the other, and push it up as a new branch?
<knome> yeah
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> ok, good, i'll look at that at the beginning of next week
<knome> then
<knome>   * Review ~xubuntu-docs (Is it technically required? Which access/permissions does it have since it's a subteam of ~ubuntu-doc?)
<pleia2> thanks
<pleia2> that one I don't know
<knome> me neither
<knome> do you know somebody who does?
<knome> i tried shouting at #ubuntu-docs earlier, but no response
<pleia2> would also be worth figuring out exactly what we need to do to get a couple xubuntu folks access to upload our docbook stuff once it's done
<pleia2> I can ask on the list
<pleia2> phillw is good about replying to me
<knome> though i think i have a better idea now who are the people we should accept to the team, even if that team had some access
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> if you ask a bit more about it, let's get back to that when you've had replies
<knome> another one:
<knome>  [lyz] Cleanup and review community wiki: INPROGRESS
<knome> should we do that now?
<pleia2> I was working through it last night, have some comments, let me dig up
<knome> got an email from elfy for improvements on making the xorg/help page better
<knome> tbe, the forums part
<pleia2> oh yes, I saw that, that would be great
<knome> i'll push the changes soon
<pleia2> I've edited the forums section a couple of times based on random feedback from people, more coherent feedback from a FC member would be win \o/
<knome> hehe
<pleia2> right, so I think we should mark everything for deletion (maybe english "Installing" can just link to Ubuntu installing docs
<pleia2> except https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CompizConfiguration/Cube/And/Effects/Ubuntu/Xubuntu/Lubuntu/Kubuntu/Edubuntu
<pleia2> which we should test
<knome> there was some discussion about that already
<knome> but i can't remember which channel
<pleia2> and we should talk about what to do with the XubuntuPanels page
<knome> probably -offtopic
<pleia2> yeah, I said I'd look a bit deeper to make sure it's what we really wanted
<pleia2> I think XubuntuPanels is actually useful, and we would benefit from a community wiki of tips as people find them (so, not move to website)
<knome> hmph.
<knome> xubuntupanels was created for a factiod
<knome> !panels
<ubottu> To reset the GNOME panel to defaults, type this in a !terminal: Â« gconftool --recursive-unset /apps/panel && killall gnome-panel Â»
<knome> !panels-#xubuntu
<ubottu> Did your panels disappear? Press alt+f2 and run: xfce4-panel | See also: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/XubuntuPanels | Want to theme your panels? See http://xubuntu.wordpress.com/2007/10/12/howto-set-a-background-image-for-your-panel/
<knome> that
<knome> it's not a "community-written" page
<pleia2> yeah, well that's good
<pleia2> ah, but it could be!
<knome> that's to say i don't have much hopes of having many of those
<pleia2> well at least I know it exists now ;) I can help fix it too
<knome> and either our rewritten offline documentation of the app-specific docs should make community-docs extinct ;)
<pleia2> I don't love the idea of just removing them all because we can, I like to have a few around so people see they can make more if they want
<knome> do you know of the processes in the community wiki?
<pleia2> then maybe we can pull more into official docs
<knome> would it be ok to just delete, not propose for deletion
<pleia2> some, only admins can delete pages for instance so they have a whole tagging system
<knome> aha
<pleia2> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Tag
<knome> ok, do we know who the admins are?
<knome> so, leave XubuntuPanels and the reference on Compiz
<knome> and propose everything else for deletion?
<pleia2> yeah, that's my assessment
<pleia2> there are a few wiki admins, you can email -doc list if you want them immediately attended to after tagging them
<pleia2> cprofitt, phillw
<knome> okay
<knome> i'm okay with those actions
<knome> will you proceed with them?
<pleia2> alright cool, I'll get that done today
<knome> great :)
<knome>  [lyz] Define target marketing audience: TODO
<knome> what about that? :)
<pleia2> I can finish that today too, I actually did it once and then the wiki didn't save my edits and I have been too upset for a month to redo it :)
<knome> aww
<knome> new wallpaper before UIF
<knome> bleh
<knome> :)
<pleia2> :D
<knome> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-quantal/group/topic-quantal-flavor-xubuntu.html
<knome> burndown looks better though
<knome> we've been keeping the reds below the mainline
<pleia2> :)
<pleia2> gold stars all around!
<knome> hehe
<knome> so, is there something else we can make happen today? :P
<pleia2> hehe
#xubuntu-devel 2012-08-26
<knome> Ã¤sch, need to sleep
<knome> see you tomorrow!
<pleia2> night :)
<pleia2> ok, pages tagged and mail sent to ubuntu-doc list about access to xubuntu-doc: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2012-August/016793.html
<micahg> knome: if software center meets our needs, sure
<Unit193> I'd say app-install-data, usc, and depends would free up more room. :---D
<micahg> Unit193: yeah, but that leaves us without the ability to purchase apps
<Unit193> That it would.
<micahg> knome: mr_pouit: synaptic removal done (should give us at least 2.3MB)
<knome> micahg, that and apt-get for advanced stuff. also, synaptic is phasing out anyway.
<smartboyhw> ochosi: ping
<knome> http://www.typewith.me/p/x-q-beta-uif-prepping
<ochosi> knome: mind if i add more theme-stuff to this list?
<knome> ochosi, not at all
<smartboyhw> ochosi: ping
<knome> ochosi, especially feel free to describe the specific items
<knome> ochosi, this is a list of everything that should be done by UIF !!
<knome> (except the xfce 4.10-item, which would be good to have for beta)
<knome> ochosi, we should probably review the lightdm-theme workitems
<ochosi> smartboyhw: hi
<knome> ochosi, since those aren't official work items, i'll group them there
<ochosi> k, why not
<smartboyhw> Sorry, ochosi, a bit wrong of XChat.
<pleia2> ok, writing marketing target audience for real now
<pleia2> also, I figured something out
<knome> ok?
<pleia2> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BurningIsoHowto#Xubuntu_Prior_to_10.10
<knome> yeah
<knome> that was known
<knome> but not tagged
<knome> ;)
<pleia2> the images themselves are tagged CategoryXubuntu - but ack, prior to 10.10?
<pleia2> should we do something about this?
<pleia2> do we still have a burner by default?
<knome> xfburn
<knome> but we should delete that section
<knome> for sure..
<pleia2> should we update it to ues xfburn?
<knome> we probably need to write on that to the documentation as well
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> maybe create a workitem and update the wiki later, since there's no rush for it for UIF...
<pleia2> ok
<knome> pleia2, http://www.typewith.me/p/x-q-beta-uif-prepping
<knome> we need to get those done by thu
<knome> :]
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> I emailed the doc list about who all has rights to upload to xubuntu-doc, but it went off in the wiki direction
<pleia2> hopefully someone who knows something will notice and answer my first question ;)
<knome> yes, i noticed that mail
<pleia2> and I've now set up redirection to Installation for all three install docs (english, spanish and german)
<pleia2> so all left to do is fix up BurningIsoHowto and the Compiz page
<knome> sweet
<pleia2> oh, and on the website I'll update the /tour screenshots today
<knome> shiny
<ochosi> maybe it'd make sense to look at the /tour and ubiquity at the same time?
<pleia2> what about ubiquity?
<ochosi> we need to update the slideshow
<knome> pleia2, we're going to update the installer slideshow
<ochosi> with Q screenshots and all
<pleia2> ah, right
<ochosi> but we can also discuss whether we want new/other slides
<knome> sure
<pleia2> I was planning on just using -P screenshots for /tour
<knome> i started looking at the slideshow today
<ochosi> but then we're kinda behind with the screenshots in a month...
<pleia2> yeah, but I wasn't sure our Q ones would be perfect yet :)
<knome> we can probably get away with updating after UIF quite easily; everybody always does that
<knome> (re: slideshow)
<pleia2> but now I'm giving myself too much work because I was planning on doing some iso testing along with -Q screenshots too ;) better get to it
<knome> heh
<knome> mr_pouit, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/+bug/1041892
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1041892 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Update terminalrc" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<knome> ochosi, do you expect to get a lot of reports of missing icons/do you have time to fix before UIF (re: elem-xfce)
<knome> rethink https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-q-xubuntu-elementary-xfce after answering
<ochosi> knome: well i hope not :}
<knome> ok, in that case, can we "DONE" most of those?
<knome> at least "report"
<knome> and what about "implement"
<knome> is that the same as bug #1006416
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1006416 in xubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "Add missing icons to elementary-xfce" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1006416
<knome> schuss
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> that's practically the same
<knome> ok
<knome> Ã¤sch, tb in albatross fails
<knome> :]
<knome> or maybe it's some weird thing here
<knome> hmm
<knome> ochosi, see your inbox
<ochosi> knome: do you have an in-action screenshot as well?
<knome> nope, i didn't test it
 * knome hides
<ochosi> sry, i'm busy with fixing bluebird right now
<knome> np, try it when you can
<ochosi> send me a screenshot when you can :}
<knome> i don't personally use those launcher panels, so i don't have a strong opinion
<ochosi> me neither
<knome> wha's the def height?
<ochosi> 48 i think
<ochosi> odd, it seems it's 46
<ochosi> in my vm
<ochosi> we should double-check with lionel
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/quantal_blueprints/launcherpanel.png
<knome> i don't know why the img repeats oddly
<ochosi> yeah, just wanted to point that out
<knome> (look at "notes"
<knome> it's the exact same image with mods
<ochosi> doesn't look bad
<ochosi> but i think now the launchers need more padding
<knome> me too
<ochosi> otherwise they look crammed onto it too much
<knome> are we proposing this change to be a default?
<ochosi> the panel-bg?
<knome> y
<ochosi> originally the idea was to have a bg so that the launcherpanel would also work without compositing
<knome> mm-hmm
<ochosi> (that was when astraljava was still exploring switching compositing on/off by default)
<ochosi> but i think it makes sense to use the bg image anyway
<knome> but if that isn't enabled by default, how can we make sure that image is proposed by default :]
<knome> (the answer is: probably no way)
<knome> but i don't want to add padding to other panels
<ochosi> ?
<knome> if we add padding for that panel, doesn't it mean the other panel gets padding too
<knome> 20:35  ochosi: but i think now the launchers need more padding
<knome> or do you mean just launchers?
<knome> i'm not sure if i want that either...
<knome> :)
<ochosi> just launchers ofc
<knome> bbl
<ochosi> knome: it would help to reduce the top-border of the bg-image for the launcher-panel
<pleia2> oh dear, my touchpad isn't working in this 12.10 daily
<Sysi> at all? check if synaptics isn't loaded or it's just disabled
<pleia2> at all, plugged in a usb mouse and that isn't working either (usually does)
<pleia2> no modules including "syn" loaded
<pleia2> xinput list isn't showing it
<ochosi> odd
<ochosi> i have a mouse-problem with my mouse in vbox
<ochosi> no scrollwheel
<pleia2> ochosi: should there still be color mismatch issues in menus in the daily builds?
<ochosi> pleia2: what theme?
<pleia2> default
<ochosi> i'm afraid you'd have to test the theme/s from git to be able to tell
<pleia2> ah ok
<ochosi> i'm using an updated quantal box
<ochosi> no color-mismatch here
<pleia2> was just wondering if it had been released to the images
<ochosi> i think not yet
<knome> ochosi, http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/quantal_blueprints/greybird-tb-compose.png
<knome> ochosi, is that expected? the main tb window has black icons
<ochosi> i'm not touching tb again
<ochosi> this is not related to our theme at all
<knome> ochosi, see http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/quantal_blueprints/greybird-tb-main.png
<ochosi> yeah, we had icon-issues with tb before
<ochosi> i changed nothing that is relevant in the gtk theme
<ochosi> so something must be wrong with tb
<ochosi> (again)
<knome> :|
<SkippersBoss> Guys: Why is xfburn - in 12.10 - listed in both Accesoires and Multimedia ?? 
<knome> SkippersBoss, because it is added to both categories
<ochosi> ok, i think i only have to fix the resize-grip and the radio/checkbuttons in bluebird, then it's usable again in 12.10
<knome> good
<knome> our prepping list looks quite good actually, i have to say
<knome> much better than i thought it would look today
<knome> woot, our completion bar is green!
<pleia2> so, synaptics module won't load, but in ubuntu 12.04 it's not loaded either and works fine, but it shows up in xinput too
<pleia2> (the module doesn't exist in either place)
<pleia2> xinput in 12.04 does show it as SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad
<Sysi> evdev might be used instead of synaptics
<knome> micahg, http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/quantal_blueprints/greybird-tb-compose.png and http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/quantal_blueprints/greybird-tb-main.png - any idea why the icons aren't black on both TB windows?
<Sysi> xorg and udev can also be broken
<knome> pleia2, shiny wiki edit
<pleia2> well, /lib/modules is broken :\ after booting up this new install I have /lib/modules/3.5.0-1 but my kernel is -6
<pleia2> so modprobe and everything complains
<ochosi> meh, unico-engine is becoming more and more useless :(
<pleia2> Sysi: I don't have synaptics or evdev modules (is evdev a module?)
<Sysi> pleia2: you could check what 12.04 uses with lspci -k 
<pleia2> I looked through that but I couldn't find anything looking obviously like a touchpad
<pleia2> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1168595/
<pleia2> clearly it just works with magic
<pleia2> hm, touchpad works ok in the 12.10 livecd
<pleia2> from 8/22 though, my installed version is from 8/26
<knome> pleia2, around?
<pleia2> mhmm
<knome> good!
<pleia2> yay, last thing on marketing blueprint is the pamphlet/handout items \o/
<knome> pleia2, what's the plan with docs anyway?
<pleia2> well hopefully someone on the ubuntu-doc list will reply
<pleia2> so we can actually get our changes into the package
<knome> when have you planned the converting to docbook?
<pleia2> what's all this "you" stuff :)
<pleia2> I am swamped with other things :(
<knome> i thought you had an idea since you told stuff needs to be ready in a week ;)
<knome> if you haven't got one, np
<pleia2> lol
<pleia2> we need a for real docs lead
<knome> yes.
<knome> i'm worried about the docs look
<knome> if we get that in before UIF... wonderful
<knome> then we have again time until sep 20 for magic
<pleia2> so, the alt image is doing installs that end up with the 3.0.5-1 kernel
<pleia2> desktop gets you 3.0.5-11
<pleia2> and lightdm theme is different
<knome> hmm..
<knome> could this have something to do with ubuntu dropping alt?
<pleia2> not a clue
<knome> me neither
<pleia2> I'll try to find time to do this on some VMs later this week
<knome> ok, good
<ochosi> wow, that sounds odd
<ochosi> why would the kernel be different
<knome> wait...
<knome> there was some discussion about newer kernel breaking proprietary nvidia drivers
<knome> that's maybe why you are held back?
<knome> or sth
<pleia2> when I boot up after alt, it also tells me I need like 500 updates
<knome> haha
<pleia2> so I am suspecting something is quite wrong
<knome> probably yes
<knome> from what date is the alt? :P
<pleia2> today
<knome> no, but really? :P
<pleia2> desktop is from 4 days ago (last time it created one)
<knome> hmm
<ochosi> well yeah, definitely doesn't sound like a problem that's on our side
<pleia2> oh
<pleia2> ok yeah, don't listen to me
<knome> haha
<pleia2> I burned the old i386 image instead of the 64 \o/
<pleia2> sorry :)
<knome> why would we listen our marketing lead?
<pleia2> clearly I just have fluff-for-brains
<pleia2> ok, let's do this again, but with the right iso :)
<knome> don't say typewith.me is dying again
<knome> we really need somebody from the docs team to help us
<knome> do we know anybody from the team that's bribable?
<knome> hmm, i had lunch at UDS-J with one of the doc committers
<knome> :P
<ochosi> i met j1mc in vienna a while ago, but i think we lost him to gnome
<knome> probably
<knome> he might be able to help us though, if somebody got a hold of him
<knome> i have his mobile #, but i don't think that's the right way to approach
<ochosi> heh
<ochosi> maybe not
<ochosi> i'm "friends" with him on g+
<ochosi> i can get in touch with him
<ochosi> but i need a specific question/reason
<knome> like "can you mentor us in ubuntu docs related questions?" 
<ochosi> ok, will try that
<knome> ok, thanks
<ochosi> np
<ochosi> ok, contacted him
<knome> good
<pleia2> bug 1041955 was pretty amusing
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1041955 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Thunar opens for all disks if manually partitioning" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1041955
 * pleia2 screen-full-of-thunar
<knome> o.O
<ochosi> lol
<pleia2> and the alt is failing at the moment :( dependency issues
<knome> meh
<pleia2> made bug 1041959 for it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1041959 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Xubuntu 12.10 Alternate Installer fails with indicator-application-gk2 dependencies" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1041959
<pleia2> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BurningIsoHowto#Xubuntu \o/
<knome> heh
<ochosi> congrats pleia2 
<ochosi> seems the screeners are a bit older :)
<pleia2> those are 12.04, should be fine
<knome> weird xfwm then.
<ochosi> ah right :)
<ochosi> yup
<pleia2> oh right, I should have switched to the default theme
<ochosi> and funny font :)
<knome> yeah... :D
<pleia2> well the instructions are fixed anyway ;) I'll get proper screenshots
<knome> meh, the pad is playing games on me
<ochosi> pleia2: hehe, no worries ;)
<knome> pleia2, awwh, now you have to burn another CD!
 * knome giggles and hides
<pleia2> don't actually have to burn it!
<knome> gotcha
<knome> oh great pad
<knome> let me work!
<pleia2> it keeps disconnecting me, I gave up
<knome> fsst
<knome> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-quantal/group/topic-quantal-flavor-xubuntu.html
<knome> look at that
<knome> the green bar touches the mainline
<ochosi> impossible! :p
<knome> now if i only got the pad working, i could mark one more thing as DONE
<knome> and oh so little "blocked" stuff
<ochosi> heh
<knome> COME OOOON
<pleia2> ok, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BurningIsoHowto#Xubuntu is better now
<knome> good
<knome> hmm
<knome> i wrote "good" somewhere and pressed enter
<knome> :P
<pleia2> haha
 * pleia2 works on /tour screenshots
<ochosi> ok, i think that bluebird should be usable now
<ochosi> bugs banished for now
<ochosi> time to fix the lightdm-theming
<knome> gooood
<knome> pleia2, i reviewed https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Development/ReleaseProcess
<pleia2> ochosi: should these look this way? http://princessleia.com/temp/apps_0-q.png
<pleia2> additional sheets in gnumeric, much black in abiword
<knome> gnumeric probably yes, abiword not
<ochosi> abiword is a known issue upstream
<knome> that's a gtk3 bug
<knome> oh, abiword bug
<ochosi> mr_pouit knows about it
 * knome ducks under the table
<ochosi> i submitted a bugreport one release ago upstream
<pleia2> I suppose this is the trouble with taking screenshots from -q right now :)
<knome> pleia2, leave abiword out :))
<ochosi> they managed fixing it upstream last week (!)
<knome> ochosi, woot?
<ochosi> mr_pouit is looking into importing the fix for us
<ochosi> that's all i can say for now
<ochosi> gnumeric uses special widgets, it's really a bitch with themes...
<ochosi> special widgets == custom widgets
<knome> ochosi, watch the language or...
<knome> ;)
<pleia2> maybe I'll just take them from precise for now
<knome> YAY PAD IS WORKING
<ochosi> ok, i think lightdm theming is starting to wor
<ochosi> k
<knome> pleia2, http://typewith.me/p/x-devel-rewrite
<knome> pleia2, feel free to review and fix errors
<knome> ochosi too, if you have time
<ochosi> knome: sry, busy with this: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-08272012-124230am.php
<knome> heh :)
<knome> np
<knome> pleia2, this is the last page of the website review!
<knome> ochosi, it already looks quite nice :)
<knome> ochosi, not optimal, but better than most
<ochosi> this is just the beginning
<knome> yeah, i know
<knome> i was just trying to make you feel needed
<knome> :)
<pleia2> ok, http://xubuntu.org/tour/ is done :)
<knome> \o/
 * knome feels like there is nothing this team can't achieve
<knome>  [lyz] Cleanup and review community wiki: INPROGRESS
<knome> isn't that DONE?
<ochosi> heh
<knome> :)
<knome> except maybe one thing
<knome> START TO WORK ON TIME
<knome> :]
<pleia2> knome: once I test and fix the compiz instructions
<knome> oki
<pleia2> I need to get some food right now, I r teh hungry
<knome> you are meh hungry
<knome> at least from the knome POV
<knome> :)
<knome> i'll stay up for a bit longer
<knome> how long will you stuff food into your mouth?
<pleia2> like 20 minutes :P
<knome> hehe
<knome> fair enough
 * knome will do something for like 20
<knome> brb
<ochosi> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-08272012-125227am.php
<ochosi> almost done ^
<knome> :)
<knome> shiny
<ochosi> i think i'll make the login-button look special somehow
<knome> mm
<drc> maybe make the text lighter (as the Session/English buttons are)?
<ochosi> drc: yeah, that's just a bug
<drc> Sorry
<ochosi> np :)
<ochosi> anyway, i hope the stupid "cancel" button can go away
<ochosi> it's utterly useless
<drc> well, if the cancel button goes away, then the login button doesn't need to standout, does it?
<knome> ochosi, what about making it blue?
<knome> ochosi, like you did with the default buttons
<ochosi> yeah, was also considering green tbh
<knome> GREEN?
<knome> :)
<ochosi> heh
<ochosi> yeh
<ochosi> mostly for fun :)
<knome> hah
<ochosi> but also because i'm curious
<ochosi> anyway, think i'll push what i have pretty soon
<knome> :)
<pleia2> knome: are we merging QA and Development mages?
<pleia2> pages
<pleia2> oh, it's just fixing bugs in this pad
<knome> yup
<knome> pleia2, nahhhhh
<knome> pleia2, that's been said at http://xubuntu.org/contribute/
<pleia2> the join devel list one?
<knome> yeah
<pleia2> ok
<knome> trying to keep that as generic as possible, and the subpages as specific as possible to not duplicate information
<ochosi> seems like transparency isn't working here: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-08272012-011703am.php
<ochosi> otherwise we could make a nice rounded box
<knome> ochosi, heh. funky. :)
<pleia2> ok, I think this looks good
<knome> great
<knome> i'll update the website then!
<pleia2> I _some links_
<knome> i noticed, will take care of those
<pleia2> thanks
<pleia2> what they should link to are on the current /development
<knome> yeah
<pleia2> SkippersBoss: thanks for working on the docs today!
<SkippersBoss> no need to thank me
<SkippersBoss> doing it in between other stuff
<pleia2> :)
<SkippersBoss> sorry have to say gnite to some one
<knome> pleia2, \o/ http://xubuntu.org/contribute/development/
<pleia2> :D
<pleia2> time for me to update the blueprint? :D
<knome> if you want to do that
<pleia2> yeah yeah I want to do it
<knome> hehe
<knome> go ahead
<pleia2> \o/
<knome> i can't desribe how much and how long this has bugged me
<pleia2> hehe
<knome> now if we could get micahg and/or mr_pouit look at it...
<SkippersBoss> some ones very happy or m i misreading something here
<knome> SkippersBoss, we are happy. the website content review is finally done
<knome> after what, nearly a year? more?
<knome> pleia2, bug #967878 - ideas? :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 967878 in Xubuntu Website "Xubuntu website has no "Contact us" -page" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/967878
<ochosi> i still have to implement the hover styles, but i think other than that we're good to go on lightdm
<knome> shiny :)
<pleia2> knome: I am not sure on that
<knome> me neither
<knome> fortunately there's no deadline on that! :)
<pleia2> :)
<pleia2> I'll think about it
<ochosi> seems like the lightdm-gtk-greeter doesn't support transparency in its current state...
<ochosi> otherwise a lot more things would be possible
<knome> ochosi, i see. though the sharp corners aren't too ugly either
<ochosi> yeah true
<ochosi> still, it'd be nice to use some shadows and transparency
<ochosi> anyway, will ask mr_pouit about that after he tests the theming
<knome> sure.
<ochosi> also not 100% sure why the hover-states are not getting applied
<knome> pleia2, apparently, they want us to stop using "derivative" in favor of "flavor"
<knome> i fixed those on our website
<pleia2> yeah, flavor is the appropriate term
<pleia2> thanks
<knome> np
<knome> there was fortunately only two
<pleia2> :)
<knome> is there a non-breaking-dash?
<ochosi> hehe: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-08272012-014117am.php
<knome> great! &#8209;
<knome> ouch!
<knome> wait
<knome> there's one "Derivatives" on our footer
<ochosi> knome: this would be the style we use everywhere else: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-08272012-014248am.php
<ochosi> knome: doesn't work too well imo
<knome> agreed
<knome> make it darker
<ochosi> exactly
<knome> like something 50% between that and the bg
<ochosi> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-08272012-014709am.php
<knome> looks good to me
<ochosi> yeah, i think it's pretty ok
<knome> at least for a one-night-fix
<ochosi> knome: why did you postpone uploading the lightdm changes?
<knome> because isn't that simply upgrading shimmer-themes?
<knome> or am i mistaken
<knome> s/upgrading/updating/
<ochosi> i guess it is
<knome> mhm
<knome> added that to the prep pad
<ochosi> ok, just one more thing to fix, then i'm done for now
<knome> hehe, yeah
<ochosi> stupid menubar at the top doesn't behave as i want
<knome> i was thinking the same....
<knome> well, not "one more", but more like "it's quite likely it for today"
<knome> :D
<ochosi> but i'm afraid it might not even be possible to fix that one
<ochosi> i would love to have the two menuitems change their bg-color on mouse-over
<ochosi> like the indicators
<ochosi> in our panel
<knome> mmh
<ochosi> but i think i can only change the clicked-state
<knome> :)
<knome> that's not too bad
<ochosi> yeah, could be worse :)
<knome> they are relatively rarely used
<ochosi> at least the other items are working as expected now
<knome> at least here, and anywhere i know xubuntu being used :P
<ochosi> even the hover states
<knome> :)
<ochosi> i still think the green login-button would've looked funky :)
<knome> well not the #0f0 green at least!
<ochosi> btw, i'm considering giving the loginbutton more xpadding
<ochosi> what do you think?
<knome> worksforme
<ochosi> since it's the most important button there...
<knome> yeah
 * knome is waiting for s.u.c to update one more time ;)
<knome> my story stops here - let's be clear...
<knome> :)
<knome> np: Faithless / Mass Destruction (Single mix)
#xubuntu-devel 2013-08-19
<skellat> No, LP Bug #1213745 is not amusing
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1213745 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "soffice.bin crashed with SIGSEGV in WorkWindow::SetPluginParent()" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1213745
 * skellat is now running Saucy on his netbook
<ochosi> micahg: could you add gmusicbrowser1.1.10 to Saucy? (also isn't in debian unstable yet, although the release was in march)
<knome> elfy, re: archived testcases... i still can't delete any ;)
<knome> elfy, i need to get in touch with balloons to do that
<smartboyhw> knome, :O
<knome> (that's stupid, i know)
<elfy> ok - thanks knome 
<knome> i'll talk with him and file a bug if it's really not possible for admins.
<elfy> well - possibly best to not get me started on the stupidity inherent in the qa systems
<knome> at *least* you should be able to unlink a testcase from a testsuite...
<knome> it's not stupid, the whole system is just that level of complexity that it is hard to take every situation into account
<knome> and it doesn't help that they're making it (justifiably so) testing-area-agnostic
<elfy> knome: the inherent stupidity is that almost anything you want to do with a testcase - has to be done twice
<elfy> why can't they set it up so that qa.com works with the code everyone writes for a testcase
<knome> elfy, ah, well that's because balloons wants to make sure the testcases are community-editable and that there is a place where you can easily search them
<elfy> maybe so - but it just adds work 
<knome> elfy, if they were only on the trackers, there would need to be other ways to submit new testcases
<elfy> that's not my point
<knome> sure... but most of it is once-only
<knome> once we get most of the testcases up, we only need to add one or two, or do changes
<elfy> until we start getting bugs
<knome> of course
<knome> but hey, if the testcases wasn't a project in LP... one couldn't file bugs :)
<elfy> imagine changing them in the tracker - that's nightmare waiting to pounce
<knome> or do merge proposals with the changes
<knome> as it is with any bugs ;)
<elfy> so you're then having to copy the tracker testcase somewhere - then make the changes that someone already did once - then copy it back
<knome> at least they are filed in a central place and there are good tools to work on them and mark their status :)
<knome> lol, nope
<knome> the workflow is LP -> tracker
<knome> if we want a change to a testcase, it should be ideally done in LP first
<elfy> yea - agreed - it is just disjointed
<elfy> knome: yes - but the change STILL has to be done twice :)
<knome> then when an admin merges the changes to the tracker, (s)he should make the changes
<knome> sure
<elfy> once via LP then again in tracker
<knome> i agree there could be a cron script that did it for us
<smartboyhw> knome, that's what I do at least...
<smartboyhw> I will want a cron script;P
<elfy> but anyway - it's not worth the time to discuss it imo
<knome> i think balloons has something, but doesn't look like it's working; i think the mess we've had a few times is because of that script ;)
<knome> elfy, maybe not...
<knome> but yeah, the site is running on drupal with some SQL backend (i assume), would be just writing a post-push script that udpates the database with the newly pushed data
<knome> that would depend on humans doing things right, eg. not guessing ID numbers
<elfy> lol
<elfy> knome: am I right in thinking we're looking at and checking the slideshow at the moment?
<elfy> perhaps we could look at this if we are - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xboard/+bug/1213933
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1213933 in ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "Slideshow recommends trying out environment which isn't present" [Undecided,New]
<lderan> mmm interesting bug
<elfy> a bit pointless perhaps - but if we're looking at the moment
<elfy> I'd not have seen it to be honest if they'd not posted on the forum complaining
<knome> micahg, ping
<knome> skellat, allÃ¶
<knome> i need an uploader. micahg, mr_pouit.
<knome> any others who have pushing rights? :)
<knome> bbl.
<lderan> knome, do i need to resubmit when i update my branch of the slideshow with the fallback or will it automagically be included?
<knome> lderan, i don't know
<lderan> okay
<lderan> knome, think it has added it to the MP automatically :)
#xubuntu-devel 2013-08-20
<lderan> and it has added a comment :D
<knome> :)
<skellat> knome: I've been out in Amish Country most of the day today as well as handling electoral administration paperwork in-person.  Is that issue still out there?
<ochosi> skellat: is "Amish Country" a metaphor here or were you literally there?
<skellat> ochosi: Ashtabula County has a quite sizable Amish population
<skellat> Mostly in the southeast corner of the county
<skellat> And that's where I was for a quite a bit of time
<ochosi> i see
<skellat> Geographically it stretches from Cherry Valley Township/Andover Township in southeast Ashtabula County westward to outside Middlefield Village in Geauga County
<micahg> knome: what do yo uneed uploaded?
<ochosi> hey micahg 
<micahg> hi ochosi 
<ochosi> sorry about bugging you about gmusicbrowser so late, i didn't notice that we didn't get the new version until today
<Unit193> ochosi: That's the name in Ohio for those places.
<ochosi> Unit193: yeah, i wasn't sure whether this is a common figure of speech or something
<ochosi> micahg: any specific reason why gmb1.1.10 never made it to debian?
<micahg> no one uploaded
<ochosi> so basically it just went unnoticed?
<micahg> no, it was imported, just not noticed
<ochosi> ah
<micahg> err...uploaded
<ochosi> just wondering whether it makes sense for me to ping someone upon a release (they don't happen that often though)
<micahg> I could merge it in if I add my key to alioth
<ochosi> would be nice to have, 1.1.9 is really ancient now
<ochosi> and there are lotsa bugfixes that would be important to have
<micahg> I'll see what I can do
<ochosi> thanks
<skellat> micahg: I think knome wanted the SRU docs uploaded for Precise.  I was out in Amish Country conducting trade so I had been away from the Internet for most of the working day.
<micahg> skellat: I don't know if I can get to it tonight, but I'll try in the morning
<skellat> micahg: No worries.  
<knome> micahg, yeah, i need the docs SRU uploaded. i can get it through if we can upload it.
<knome> micahg, see http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/08/19/%23ubuntu-release.html#t16:20
<knome> micahg, we need to, at least, also add debian/preinst
<knome> micahg, allÃ¶ allÃ¶
<smartboyhw> knome, you made me thought of zequence (his old IRC nick)
<smartboyhw> :P
<knome> aha
<mikodo> Isn't there a meeting on Aug 22/13, or is my memory not serving me correctly.
<GridCube> it is
<GridCube> or better, there is
<mikodo> GridCube, Thank you. It isn't listed in the topic. How do I find out what time it is?
<GridCube> the wiki should be updated with the time, but i would bet it hasnt been, it will be at 15 UTC if im correct
<mikodo> GridCube, Thank you. I am off to the dentist. ;(
<GridCube> oh its updated :P my bad
<elfy> updated my mir install - image one is booting this ordinary one after upgrade, image 2 is booting into the mir one after the normal one, image 3 is booting back into this one after restart - not looking very good in my opinion still
<elfy> http://imgur.com/cPAmyNC,irF8k6K,DCfJ9j0#0
 * slickymaster is away: I'm busy
 * slickymaster is away: [Got to work]
 * slickymaster is away: Got to work>
<holstein> !away
<ubottu> Please do not use noisy away messages and nicks in Ubuntu channels. It is annoying and unnecessary. Use the command "/away <reason>" to set your client away silently. See also Â«/msg ubottu GuidelinesÂ»
<holstein> slickymaster: ^
 * slickymaster is away: <Got to work>
<holstein> not that anyone would care much here, i suppose...
 * slickymaster is away: Got to work
<knome> mrr. :)
#xubuntu-devel 2013-08-21
<skellat> Oops...I made it go kaboom again... LP Bug #1214691
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1214691 in chromium-browser (Ubuntu) "chromium-browser crashed with SIGSEGV" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1214691
<knome> micahg, ping.
<cub> Hi ochosi , knome asked me to check with you with a non-shrinking icon for the power indicator. I suppose it's elementary Dark that is included in Ubuntu Studio, but not entirely sure. Are you available?
<ochosi> cub: hi, i'm semi-available atm, might have to go every second (awaiting important call)
<ochosi> but you can tell me bout it and to the worst i read and reply later
<cub> np. I changed the size of the upper panel on my netbook running Saucy from 24 to 16, but the icon in the tray for Power/battery stays the same and you can't see the whole icon. I also tried that same thing on my Ubuntu Studio 13.04 with the same result. Seems 24 is the only size for that icon.
<Noskcaj> ochosi, cub: i can confirm it affects xubuntu saucy
<Noskcaj> while running elementary darker
<ochosi> yeah, that's a semi-known issue
<ochosi> cub: there's no 16px version of those icons (there are quite a few of them)
<ochosi> as not many ppl use such a tiny panel and no-one complained so far, i never added those icons
<cub> hehe, I'm picky with my small screen.
<cub> but then I know. thanks.
<ochosi> btw, the same is true if you're using just elementary-xfce
<cub> yes I tried a few different just now.
<ochosi> theoretically when you use an earlier version, the icon would scale down
<ochosi> but it would then always be fuzzy unless panel-height=24
<ochosi> i'm happy to accept patches, if anyone here wants to draw those icons :}
<cub> It's on my list to learn how to do icons and themes. Just very far down on the list.
 * Noskcaj needs something he can do for xubuntu one-handed. will look icon icon making
<Noskcaj> *into icon
<Noskcaj> ochosi, Where is the branch so i can try making icons?
<ochosi> Noskcaj: https://github.com/shimmerproject/elementary-xfce
<ochosi> starter-tip: always align everything to the grid, otherwise we can't use the icon/s
<Noskcaj> That means nothing to me so far
<Noskcaj> ochosi, Any tools you recommend i use?
<knome> Noskcaj, TBE: if you are drawing a 16x16 icon, there is a virtual grid of 16x16. try not to cross those lines.
<knome> Noskcaj, inkscape.
<Noskcaj> knome, ty
<Noskcaj> Any how-to guides? i have no idea what i'm doing
<cub> Noskcaj, http://www.microugly.com/inkscape-quickguide/
<Noskcaj> cub, ty
<cub> I haven't gone through myself but got the link when I asked the same question a couple of weeks ago.
<knome> Noskcaj, my #1 step in a guide would be to understand what you're doing first
<knome> Noskcaj, try looking for examples in other icons, see how they are aligned to the grid
<knome> Noskcaj, get a grasp of what the icon should look zoomed in inkscape with a grid visible
<knome> s/the/an/
<knome> Noskcaj, then get an image in your head of what you want to make the new icon look like, what kind of elements it should have
<knome> Noskcaj, then worry about knowing how to use inkscape.
<smartboyhw> knome, you guys better get started on testing 12.04.3
<smartboyhw> elfy, ^
<knome> smartboyhw, yeah yeah, sure sure. ;)
<smartboyhw> LOL
<lderan> i can do some testing if need be :P
<smartboyhw> lderan, I think you are needed:P
<smartboyhw> (LOL)
<lderan> \o/
<knome> lderan, hey
<knome> lderan, i was thinking the other day
<knome> lderan, do we need an extra "version-details" tag?
<knome> lderan, couldn't you just put the , inside "version-id"?
<lderan> easily enough to make it do that. will there be a case where the , is unneeded? 
<knome> hmm, i see now that being a bit problematic regarding the spot where you'd put the ID itself
<knome> i mean if it's inside version-id, you'd have to put the ID either after or before the comma
<lderan> could have several classes for the variations
<knome> lderan, yeah, the case when you don't get the version number ;)
<knome> i'd just rather go with one
<knome> i'm thinking this fallback is overcomplicating things.
<knome> but that might be needed.
<knome> also thinking: instead of span replacements, couldn't we do text replacement?
<knome> eg, if you type $versionID in the text, it gets replaced
<knome> i know that's not as easy with JS as element replacement
<knome> what i'm wondering about might be just a non-problem :)
<lderan> regex to save the day :P
<knome> i mean, it's not something you poke every day
<knome> even less when that's automated
<lderan> indeed
<knome> i just poked the usage a bit
<lderan> poke away :P
<lderan> its very unlikely the slideshow will not get the version number, more likely the version name wont be passed.
<lderan> thats unlikely in of itself as well
<knome> :)
<knome> bbl
<elfy> smartboyhw: please don't be telling me what to do. Thanks.
<olli> hi there
<elfy> hi olli 
<olli> knome, skellat wanted to give you guys a quick heads up on the status of xmir
<olli> hey elfy
<knome> hey olli
<knome> i'm not actively around right now, but go ahead
<olli> skellat, knome we are targeting a call for testing for the remaining 2 big features (Multimonitor, composite bypass) for either Thu or Fri this week
<olli> I am saying "or Fri" in case there are issues in our internal preliminary testing
<olli> knome, ack, just wanted to share that with you guys in advance of tomorrows meeting
<elfy> olli: my biggest issue at the moment is that I still see what I did in xmir or not when I boot in and out
<elfy> got screenshots here
<olli> elfy, yeah, you are probably still on .8 or .9
<olli> we had to stop landing to fix an ATI related issue
<elfy> http://imgur.com/cPAmyNC,irF8k6K,DCfJ9j0#0
<olli> and hence the "switch" branch hasn't hit archive yet
<elfy> I updated/upgraded last night about 2000utc
<olli> we should have turned landing on as of this AM European (didrocks') time
<olli> let me check
<elfy> so you're saying that if the updates have gone through I won't see that ^^ anymore
<olli> that's my expectation
 * olli checks on reality 
<elfy> so will elfy ;)
<ochosi> elfy: did you just ping yourself?
<elfy> olli: have you checked? is it worth me booting the mir install to upgrade?
<elfy> ochosi: not that I noticed 
<elfy> but it's been a 25 hour day
<ochosi> :)
<olli> elfy, still discussing with ppl in #ubuntu-mir
<elfy> full of 61 minute hours :p
<elfy> olli: okey doke
<elfy> olli: that bug that you're talking of in -mir isn't what I'm seeing
<elfy> it might have got talked about in one of the other bugs I read though - but I can't be sure which one now
<olli> elfy, arg, misread you
<olli> elfy, I'll have kgunn or tvoss come back to you
<elfy> ok - well they can do it with forestpiskie in -mir :)
<knome> erm, if it's a xubuntu issue, i'd appreciate if it happened here
<knome> just for the sake of logs and others being able to chime in
<elfy> well they can come here then 
<knome> (and generally it's nice to see that the mir team is willing to travel around, there might be other things people want to ask them etc)
<knome> olli, so thanks for being here! :)
<elfy> olli: so - is it going to be worth me upgrading to see what it looks like now - I'm going to be away tomorrow and need to make my views known prior to our meeting
<olli> elfy, it should not regress, in a mtg atm with Kevin, can't look at it in the next 1h
<elfy> ok 
<olli> so, if you can I'd say give it a spin
<elfy> ok - thanks
<elfy> olli: slightly different - still get corruption in whatever I boot after I've been in mir
<elfy> thanks for your help 
<olli> elfy, weird
<elfy> yep
<olli> do you have a bug to track that issue?
<elfy> no - though last time I did a bug and had a screenshot I just got sarcasm
<elfy> which tends to put you off bothering
<elfy> but I'm happy enough to do it again - what package to report against? 
<olli> elfy, sarcasm? i'd be interested to see the initial report 
<elfy> olli: I booted it again - just doing a bug report - which package should I report against?
<olli> elfy, file it against unity-system-compositor and subscibe me
<elfy> and that wasn't necessarily a mir bug :)
<elfy> ok will do
<elfy> olli: what's you LP name?
<olli> ories
<elfy> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-system-compositor/+bug/1215053
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1215053 in unity-system-compositor (Ubuntu) "Corruption in login window following reboot" [Undecided,New]
<elfy> oh dear - found one that I didn't have yesterday now - in firefox in mir - cursor is now a rather large box when you've got an image to enlarge
<olli> elfy, off to another round of mtgs
<elfy> I'll screenshot that - attach it 
<elfy> good luck - I'm getting close to putting my feet up 
<knome> honestly speaking, mir still has quite a lot of bugs :/
<ochosi> huge undertaking, little time > quite a lot of bugs
<lderan> i would like to see it running on my pc :(
<elfy> not having any luck capturing this oddity in a screeny
<ochosi> hah, even managed to make the lines sync :}
<knome> yeah, i'm not blaming anybody about it
<knome> ochosi, heh, yeah ;)
<elfy> http://i.imgur.com/sTkdYPe.jpg
<elfy> that's what I see in a large image in firefox
<elfy> brb
<lderan> knome, shall i start on the text replacing for the slideshow?
<knome> lderan, did dylan reply to your last commit?
<lderan> no replies yet
<lderan> shall check to make sur
<lderan> e
<knome> i'd wait for that
<knome> he's the go-to guy on the slideshows anyway, so want to make sure he's comfortable with it
<lderan> okay :)
<knome> (at least before poking others' slideshows)
<lderan> :P
<elfy> I'd forgotten how old 12.04 looks 
<elfy> or different perhaps
<ochosi> elfy: artwork-wise?
<elfy> yea
<elfy> 13.10 looks just a whole different beast altogether 
<Unit193> Mailing list user had the same issue as elfy.
<elfy> that 12.04 looks different than 13.10 ?
<elfy> :)
<drc> well, greybird does look different on those two (to these eyes anyway)
<elfy> yea - just a long long time since I saw it
<ochosi> so what's the verdict then?
<ochosi> (old doesn't necessarily mean bad/worse)
<Unit193> Greybird?  I see it on live systems, but that's it.
<drc> guilty...35 years sentence
<elfy> ochosi: I much prefer what I see now 
<ochosi> good to hear
<elfy> indeed :)
<ochosi> i'm trying to do incremental changes overall, but i know the switch away from the dark menus was harsh for many (at least in the beginning)
<elfy> well I'd not really have noticed that as I never used dark menus - tended to change that 
<drc> ochosi: since the topic came up :)...why is the appmenu light while the rest of the theme is dark?
<ochosi> elfy: well all menus had a dark bg, now the bg is bright
<ochosi> drc: how/where is greybird dark (apart from the panel)?
<drc> the old greybird (say 12.04 era) it was closer to the panel color.
<ochosi> yeah, i know
<drc> well, I ment the panel...sorry
<ochosi> i tried that, making only the panel-related menus dark, but it just felt very inconsistent with the rest
<ochosi> so it turned out to be an all or nothing decision
<ochosi> another issue was icon-colors
<ochosi> with gtk3 this won't be as big a problem anymore
<ochosi> but until then you have to decide what colors they should have
<elfy> well - I didn't mean to start a discussion - was just a comment about how I prefer what we have now lol 
<ochosi> hehe, artwork discussions have become rare anyways
<drc> elfy: sorry, it's just that I've never seen ochosi in the (any) channel when the subject of greybird came up, so I <had> to ask
<ochosi> people seem to be fed up with them or simply satisfied :)
<ochosi> drc: you can always ask me about these things if you want to
<elfy> a pair of :)'s 
<drc> ochosi: I know, but it just normaly seems, well, silly to ask about such a small thing.
<Unit193> Crap, I hate to bring it up before tonight, but I don't see anything majorly interesting in the latest two releases: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/saucy/+source/mir/+changelog
<lderan> yeah :(
<elfy> anyone able to do a 32bit test for 12.04.3 - I've done the others but got nothing to do an entire disk test
<elfy> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/301/builds/51847/testcases/130/results
<elfy> if they can
<cub> Noskcaj, you disconnected earlier before I got to paste two more inkscape links: http://fullcirclemagazine.org/inkscape-special-edition-volume-one/ and http://fullcirclemagazine.org/inkscape-special-edition-volume-two/
<Noskcaj> cub, thanks. i still don't understnd it
<Noskcaj> elfy, i'll have a look
<elfy> cheers Noskcaj 
<Noskcaj> however, crappy laptop, internet and wrist will make things slow
<elfy> it's just the one - I've done the 64bit and 3/4 of the 32bit
<knome> elfy, feel free to mark the ISOs ready then :)
<elfy> forget I can do that ... 
<knome> heh
<elfy> tick the 64 bit desktop and then mark as ready from the dropdown I assume
<elfy> knome: ^^
<knome> elfy, yup
<elfy> ok - done that then :)
<knome> nice
<Noskcaj> elfy, What'sthe bug for the grey background boxes in precise?
<elfy> not sure - didn't see them 
<elfy> didn't see anything untoward at all 
<Noskcaj> i've got three already
<elfy> oh yea - waht bit of the testcase are they failing on ?
<Noskcaj> i'll have bugs soon.
<elfy> yea - but what bit of the testcase is failing? 
<Noskcaj> The first bits
<elfy> http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Install/DesktopWhole
<elfy> which first bit :p
<knome> it's not a fail if it doesn't stop you from finishing the testcase - the grey bg areas won't
<knome> those are bleh, but... we have 14.04 soon.
<elfy> as far as I'm concerned if it passes the testcase it's a pass
<elfy> Noskcaj10: did you catch our last comments? 
<Noskcaj10> no
<elfy> <knome> it's not a fail if it doesn't stop you from finishing the testcase - the grey bg areas won't
<elfy> <knome> those are bleh, but... we have 14.04 soon.
<elfy> <elfy> as far as I'm concerned if it passes the testcase it's a pass
<elfy> I'm off up the wooden hill now anyway - thanks for doing that one
<knome> thanks elfy and have fun
<elfy> I'll do the 32bit alternate ones tomorrow
<knome> nice
<knome> i'll see if i can do one or two today or tomorrow
<elfy> if you can manage the entire disk ones that'd help me
<elfy> night
<knome> nighty1
<knome> ! too
<Unit193> mhall119: Why hello! :P
<mhall119> hi Unit193 
#xubuntu-devel 2013-08-22
<skellat> Attention is drawn to LP Bug #1215182   
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1215182 in xfce4-session (Ubuntu) "xfce 4 session manager does not save session" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1215182
<Unit193> knome, ochosi: ---v
<Unit193> Before I forget, so some thoughts for the meeting tomorrow.  Even if multimonitor support and bypass land this week (which look like they're landing), you still have many failing cards, and not just falling back to X.org, ones that either have corrupt screen ranging from login to completely unusable.  Apart from that, there seems to be quite a lot of people still having mouse lag, and of course it still hasn't landed with virtual machine ...
<Unit193> ... support.  Another thought is if we decide to use some Xfce 4.11 applications, we'd be running two experimental package sets which can make it more fun to figure out where something may be breaking.  As for the tearing issue, I personally think it'd be nice to have compton in the repos, and ship a config file but don't actually ship compton itself (Not in Saucy).  Any questions?
<Noskcaj> I'm not going to make the meeting, but i think we should run either mir or 4.11 not both. I'm talking with debian about 4.11 currently. 
<ochosi> Unit193: sounds very sensible to me
<elfy> that's my take too - but even if we didn't have both, given what I get with mir I'd not be using it currently 
<elfy> which is my position for the meeting this afternoon as I'll not be making it
<ochosi> mhm
<ochosi> thing is, we're going for xfce4.11 packages to get better multi-monitor support
<ochosi> crapping that up with a worse general experience kinda makes that move senseless
<elfy> yep
<ochosi> (although the 4.11 packages aren't in yet and mr_pouit hasn't really given us his opinion on the matter)
<ochosi> (so it's far from sure we'll get them)
<elfy> yep
<Unit193> {Sure, if 4.11 still doesn't land that doesn't change any stability problems, only possible future ones.)
<knome> Unit193, compton being?
<knome> noting -1 from Unit193 and elfy.
<Unit193> knome: Compositor, seems to be a nice one.
<knome> Unit193, mir compositor? :P
<Unit193> Heh.
<Unit193> Thought ochosi tried to get you to use it once, but could be wrong.
 * knome sneezes while has some muesli in the mouth
<knome> oop.
<knome> okay, so non-related
<knome> elfy, what's your opinion on waiting for new things to land?
<ochosi> it's a replacement for xfwm4's built-in compositor
<knome> oh wait
<knome> he said already
<knome> right
<ochosi> the main advantage of it being that it uses opengl (optionally)
<knome> i'll promise i'll test it if we decide not to take mir.
<ochosi> so you don't get any window tearing anymore when watching videos
<ochosi> so it's kinda mir-unrelated, we can use or not use it with or without mir
<ochosi> it seemed stable enough, but i assume the performance varies across hardware (as is usually the case, because it's the driver's fault)
<knome> yeah
<ochosi> xfwm4's compositor uses XRender afaik, which is why there is window-tearing and stuff
<ochosi> so basically all you have to do after compton is installed is switch off the xfwm4 compositor and start compton
<knome> aha
<ochosi> it also has some effects builtin, but i wouldn't recommend any of them
<ochosi> at least the transparency-blur (which might be useful) made my system slow
<knome> does it have at least the same features than xfce's?
<knome> bleh, that's a bugger
<Unit193> That's why I think in this case it might make sense to ship config but not the compositor itself.  Also http://www.mail-archive.com/mir-devel@lists.ubuntu.com/msg00048.html indicates they are following true to what they said.
<knome> it's kind of stupid to ship something that has a feature that's interesting but damn slow
<ochosi> knome: yeah, it has more features than xfce's compositor
<ochosi> and xfce's compositor doesn't do blur at all
<ochosi> so in the config, that would simply be disabled
<ochosi> same with fade-outs on window close or minimize
<ochosi> it might also just be that those make the system _feel_ slower...
<knome> "in the config"?
<knome> does that mean it doesn't have a GUI config tool?
<ochosi> so yeah, there are no regressions over xfwm4's compositor, but potential gains
<knome> because what i meant was:
<knome> if there is a GUI tool to configure
<ochosi> exactly, it has a config file that lives in .config/compton.conf (iirc)
<knome> aha
<knome> then i don't think it's a good thing
<ochosi> i mean it shouldn't be too hard to write a config-dialog for compton tbh
<knome> for me, it's a regression in itself that there is no GUI tool to manage that
<knome> sure
<ochosi> if that's the only blocker
<knome> i'm not questioning that
<knome> well my other point
<knome> if there is a GUI
<knome> and even if feature X would be disabled by default
<ochosi> but as Unit193 said (and i agree with that), shipping such a config-file by default might still be a good idea to make it easier for users to test it
<knome> if enabling feature X would make the system performance really poor, that sucks
<knome> most definitely
<knome> +1 for that, feel free to do that for 13.10
<ochosi> yeah, for users to enable a feature, they'd have to dig in the config-file, so that's almost regression-safe imo :)
<knome> yes, but then again i also think it sucks that we don't have a GUI ;)
<ochosi> who digs around in config files and flips switches has to live with the consequences
<ochosi> yeah, i agree
<ochosi> someone should contact the compton dev and ask him whether there are plans for that
<ochosi> Unit193: ? ^
<knome> i agree with poking config files, but i don't want to make them do that
<ochosi> sorry folks, i gotta run now
<knome> np
<ochosi> hope i can make it to the meeting though
<knome> have fun ochosi 
<ochosi> well, if you call plumbing fun...
<knome> if you want, and if you're certain, tell your vote now and we'll take into account
<ochosi> Mir/Xmir: -1
<knome> okay
<ochosi> (i don't want to turn our user-base into a herd of guinea-pigs)
<ochosi> (if anyone asks why -1 :))
<knome> sure
<knome> i'll point them to the logs
<ochosi> cause then we can also start shipping xfce in random git snapshots
<ochosi> bbl
<Unit193> I have yet to install it, I know it exists and seems to make the most sense.
<knome> Unit193, once you do, can you check performance-wise if some of the features have a big effect
<Unit193> Well, I wasn't planning on it, but if need be I could.  There was a forum post linked in #xubuntu geared towards Xfce (and LXDE) that could be used.
<knome> well if you do it...
<knome> by no means do feel like you're obliged
<knome> i just think you've did great with other similar things
<knome> and i'm sure it could benefit xubuntu
<knome> but if you don't feel like doing it, it's ok
<Unit193> Heh, I just said that I didn't plan on it, hardware that I typically use isn't the best so chances of being slower are high.  I'd be up for it though.  (Fastest computer, which I don't use often or little slower one.)
<knome> but isn't that a good benchmark anyway?
<knome> do you use the xfce compositor on those?
<Unit193> Yep, use it on all of them (slow one too. :P )
<knome> yeah, then it's a fair comparison
<ochosi> just for everyone's information before today's meeting: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTQ0MjA (security issue with XMir)
<smartboyhw> security issue heh
<knome> phoronix too.
 * smartboyhw will object (although not a Xubuntu person)
<smartboyhw> I mean, Mir.
<knome> you can object, but only team members can vote.
<smartboyhw> knome, yep
<smartboyhw> knome, ochosi https://code.launchpad.net/~robertcarr/mir/client-focus-notifications
<smartboyhw> The Mir guys gave me that link to the phonorix bug fix
<smartboyhw> *phoronix
<smartboyhw> <tvoss|lunch> smartboyhw, quite a big change and as it is so crucial, we have given it extra attention and reviews
<smartboyhw> <smartboyhw> tvoss|lunch, :)
<OvenWerks> knome: I will watch the meeting as well. Whatever xubuntu does is of interest to studio
<knome> OvenWerks, sure, everybody is free to join the meeting (and speak, only voting on certain issues is limited to team members) :)
<OvenWerks> I think Studio will run Xorg till after 14.04
 * cub is running Ubuntu Studio on xmir as we speak ...
<knome> OvenWerks, that sounds like a valid strategy.
<knome> or at least, one of the valid ones...
<knome> bbl ->
<elfy> knome: my opinion is how long do we wait - how long is a piece of string ... 
<OvenWerks> elfy: I think in this case, even if all the things get fixed that are "about to be fixed", xMir is not ready.
<OvenWerks> my understanding is that MIR does not equal xMIR either, so the same deal for 14.04, another new SW block. That is why my thought is: after 14.04
<elfy> knome: now I've read the whole scrollback my vote is still the -1 thanks
<elfy> hi OvenWerks, would chat but I get 30 minutes for lunch :)
<OvenWerks> elfy: no prob
<GridCube> meeting is in 15 minutes right?
<smartboyhw> GridCube, I thought it's 24:P
<smartboyhw> Your time is a bit too fast.
<GridCube> ?
<GridCube> its 22
<GridCube> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<drc> maybe Grid lives in on of theose countries that has the time off-set by 15 or 30 minutes :)
<GridCube> :/
<GridCube> ooo
<GridCube> the minutes
<GridCube> right
<lderan> :P
<GridCube> my clock might be wrong
<drc> Maybe time moves differently in a quiet library?
<drc> oh, I know what it is...he was looking at the clock on his computer running Xubuntu, and, as everybody knows, Xubuntu doesn't have ntp installed/configured by default :)
<smartboyhw> :P
<GridCube> i had my computer runing xubuntu in a vm :( but they took it to repair in May because its video card got broken, in May
<smartboyhw> GridCube, now it's 10 minutes to meeting:P
<knome> hallo.
 * smartboyhw waves at knome 
<drc> \o/
<knome> so i need to be as quick as possible today (though no hard deadlines)
<knome> who's here for the meeting?
<smartboyhw> o/
<jjfrv8> o/
<smartboyhw> (as a guest, alright)
<smartboyhw> tvoss_ is here it seems:)
<tvoss_> smartboyhw, yup, o/
 * OvenWerks is an observer
 * smartboyhw too
<knome> #startmeeting Xubuntu community meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Aug 22 14:59:22 2013 UTC.  The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<knome> #topic Items carried on
<knome> #subtopic Open action items from previous meeting
<knome> #action skellat to prepare blog article discussing updating & upgrading for users and why it is okay to do so
<meetingology> ACTION: skellat to prepare blog article discussing updating & upgrading for users and why it is okay to do so
<knome> #topic Team updates
<knome> Please use #info and #action
<knome> people, go ahead
<GridCube> :)
<knome> #info unfortunately, due to various obstacles, the docs SRU is not going to make it to .3, but we will upload it to -updates ASAP (and eventually, it'll be in .4)
<GridCube> #info Desktop of the week will have a list ready for later today of the first few images proposed for the project, we hope to have them posted an anounced for the first days of the next week
<knome> #action knome will prepare the website side later this week
<meetingology> ACTION: knome will prepare the website side later this week
<knome> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Action object at 0x322da50>
<knome> #action knome will prepare the website side for desktop of the week -gallery later this week
<meetingology> ACTION: knome will prepare the website side for desktop of the week -gallery later this week
<knome> anything else?
<GridCube> not from me in this topics
<knome> looking at a busier week next week, because we're one week to FF :)
<GridCube> indeed
<knome> #topic Announcements
<knome> none from me at this time. other team members?
<knome> oh, i do
<knome> #info knome has received money from the magazine. the project now about 250 euros to spend.
<knome> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Info object at 0x30dc710>
<knome> #info knome has received money from the linuxidentity magazine articles. the project has now about 250 euros to spend.
<knome> better :P
<smartboyhw> \o/
<knome> #topic New and emerging items
<knome> #subtopic Mir decisions
<GridCube> is this time for opinions?
<knome> soon
<knome> is there something people want to discuss?
<olli> knome, tvoss and I can give an update
<knome> what's the status updates for Mir, is there any new ground-breaking tests?
<pleia2> o/
<knome> olli, sure, that would be good :)
<olli> we were heading for a Call for testing for today around Multimonitor and composite bypass 
<olli> sad reality is that we don't have the PPA ready for testing today
<olli> while we hope it's ready by tomorrow, we might even see further delays
<olli> I understand that this negatively impacts your decision making process
<olli> the ultimate plan is to land these features sufficiently tested by FF, i.e. 8/29
<olli> so we don't have a lot of time to pull the PPA together _and_ have enough headway until FF
<olli> there has been some FUD around the VT security bug
<olli> that is currently being worked on at https://code.launchpad.net/~robertcarr/mir/client-focus-notifications
<olli> and a mandatory target for 13.10
<olli> internal testing has shown improvements for the bypass feature
<olli> we are about to publish numbers via the long promised & outstanding dashboard
<olli> tvoss_, anything I missed (sorry, am in a real life meeting while I type;)
<tvoss_> olli, nope, all good :) for racarr's branch: it has taken quite a while to review it as it impacts such an important area and is security relevant
<knome> Riddell, o/
<knome> anybody has questions to olli, tvoss_?
<pleia2> thanks for the updates
<knome> yup
<smartboyhw> tvoss_, when is the ETA of the fix branch?
<smartboyhw> I mean, landing
<knome> i think we should vote about waiting or not waiting first
<knome> everybody agree or do we have better ideas?
<pleia2> maybe talk about it before vote? :)
<knome> people are so quiet...
<pleia2> hehe
<GridCube> we need opinions before voting
<lderan> sorry reading work emails :P
<tvoss_> smartboyhw, so eta for landing was yesterday :) but one reviewer found small issues
<GridCube> to take a reasonable desition
<rowboatnick> im spectating only
<smartboyhw> tvoss_, ah
<pleia2> so here's the thing, we're still seeing a fair number of failures, where the failover doesn't work and folks end up with blank screens, slow mouse pointers and screen corruption on some cards
<tvoss_> smartboyhw, small issues as in: syntactic mostly. racarr is online in ~1 hour and should tackle those, so there are no major blockers
<pleia2> even if the multi-monitor stuff landed today, I'm not happy
<knome> ...which is why i personally see a little point in postponing the decision
<GridCube> mmhm, i had better results on 0.0.8 than 0.0.9
<smartboyhw> 0.0.9 is most certainly better than 0.0.8. I agree with GridCube 
<pleia2> postponing until today was already quite late for us given limitations of our team (we have a pretty small testing team in general, smaller development for fixing bugs)
<knome> smartboyhw, that's not what he said..
<pleia2> smartboyhw: he said the opposite
<GridCube> i had more lag on .9 than in .8
<smartboyhw> knome, pleia2 oh:(
 * smartboyhw says the direct oppostie of GridCube then
<smartboyhw> :P
<GridCube> in any case there are too many result in the fail area
<olli> I don't know XUbuntu well, but is there an anticipated large difference between XUbuntu's DE and Ubuntu's DE
<cub> But would still be possible to add xmir as of today with apt-get install unity-system-compositor?
<knome> from my point of view, while there certainly has been improvements, xmir hasn't been proving to generally improve for everybody
<knome> olli, yes
<smartboyhw> cub, yes
<olli> i.e. shouldn't Ubuntu & XUbuntu see feature/bug parity
<knome> olli, partly, but there is a lot that is different
<cub> So the question is more "Should mir be the default already on installation?"?
<lderan> I haven't had a good experience of xmir yet
<tvoss_> knome, I think olli is referring to the underlying graphics stack
<knome> cub, ...no :)
<pleia2> cub: right, that's the question
<pleia2> knome: oh?
<smartboyhw> oh?
<GridCube> cub: the question would be if it will be shipped default
<knome> that ^
<pleia2> it will be in the repos regardless, is I think what cub is saying
<knome> then it should be "for" installation :)
<knome> tvoss_, olli: yes, sure
<cub> exactly. But the people who would like to test it could just add it themselves. Everybody happy.
<GridCube> we could change the ubiquity installer to ask if xmir or x.org? 
<knome> but the reason why we are here that the Canonical decision to indlude mir or not is a different from the Xubuntu decision to include (X)Mir
<OvenWerks> Only if it includes an expailation
<knome> not only because the other uses Mir and the other XMir
<olli> regarding QA resources & test coverage... would it help if we (upstream) would contribute to your testing
<knome> GridCube, not happy with that either.
<smartboyhw> knome, I rather think an explanation on the website or the release notes might help.
<xnox> GridCube: that would mean shipping xmir & x.org packages on the cd, and removing the one not needed at the end of installation (similar is done with unneeded file-system utilities et al)
<knome> GridCube, if XMir is ready and stable enough to be chosen from the installer, then it should probably be default. if not, then it shouldn't be installable at all
<pleia2> olli: so we've put a lot of effort into testing xmir specifically, we really need to get back on track for more general Xubuntu testing
<GridCube> ofcourse it would help, but our users regard xubuntu as a pretty stable release, they use us on many places where they want to have a simple-stable system, not providing that would scare many of our users
<GridCube> knome: good point
<knome> (installable from the CD)
<pleia2> we could make sure a wiki page is maintained for folks who do want to enable it (I don't love installer option either)
<GridCube> At this moment, just at this moment, xmir its not stable enough for xubuntu, that is my opinion
<smartboyhw> pleia2, you can put it in release notes
<GridCube> its pretty good though
<smartboyhw> Or website
<knome> so...
<pleia2> vote time
<knome> do people think we should bother to vote about waiting or not waiting
 * smartboyhw doesn't
 * olli does
<GridCube> vote
<knome> i think we should do that.
<smartboyhw> It's one week BEFORE ff now
<olli> sorry, that was selfish ;)
 * tvoss_ does, too :)
<pleia2> olli: hehe :)
<knome> olli, np, that's expected ;)
<knome> #vote Should we wait for improvements landing to XMir later (but before the FF)? (+1 for wait, -1 for not wait)
<meetingology> Please vote on: Should we wait for improvements landing to XMir later (but before the FF)? (+1 for wait, -1 for not wait)
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<knome> #voters bluesabre elfy GridCube jjfrv8 knome micahg mr_pouit ochosi pleia2 skellat Unit193
<meetingology> Current voters: GridCube Unit193 bluesabre elfy jjfrv8 knome micahg mr_pouit ochosi pleia2 skellat
<knome> -0
<knome> bah, no -0?
<knome> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from knome
<pleia2> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from pleia2
<GridCube> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from GridCube
<jjfrv8> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from jjfrv8
<smartboyhw> Well...
<knome> there was one -1 from elfy and one -1 from Unit193.
<knome> (covering this questions as well)
<smartboyhw> -6...
<knome> people who want to check that the votes are valid can check the logs from this channel earlier today.
<knome> let's wait for a few more minutes.
<ochosi> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from ochosi
 * smartboyhw thinks -7 is a majority already...
<knome> smartboyhw, please.
<knome> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Should we wait for improvements landing to XMir later (but before the FF)? (+1 for wait, -1 for not wait)
<meetingology> Votes for:0 Votes against:4 Abstentions:1
<meetingology> Motion denied
<knome> #vote Include (+1) or not include (-1) Mir in Xubuntu 13.10?
<meetingology> Please vote on: Include (+1) or not include (-1) Mir in Xubuntu 13.10?
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<knome> #voters bluesabre elfy GridCube jjfrv8 knome micahg mr_pouit ochosi pleia2 skellat Unit193
<meetingology> Current voters: GridCube Unit193 bluesabre elfy jjfrv8 knome micahg mr_pouit ochosi pleia2 skellat
<pleia2> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from pleia2
<knome> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from knome
<GridCube> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from GridCube
<ochosi> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from ochosi
<jjfrv8> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from jjfrv8
<knome> there was one -1 from elfy and one -1 from Unit193 to this as well.
<knome> again, you can check the logs
<knome> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Include (+1) or not include (-1) Mir in Xubuntu 13.10?
<meetingology> Votes for:0 Votes against:5 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion denied
<knome> tvoss_, olli: thanks
<knome> efforts are appreciated :)
<GridCube> its not ready just yet
<olli> so, while this is not the resolution we were hoping for (but we understand & appreciate your efforts) I really wanted to say thanks to the team for giving it a fair chance
<pleia2> indeed! it's been fun working with the Mir team, and helping folks get the hands in testing at Ubuntu Hours and such
<olli> rather than making uneducated decisions, this is worth a lot to us
<ochosi> i guess ppl will continue testing
<lderan> hope mir goes well for ubuntu :)
<knome> tvoss_, olli: i'm sure people can test mir with xubuntu in the following days as well, to see if things have been improving and bugs fixed :)
<GridCube> olli: :) and thank you for your presence it was greatly appreciated
<tvoss_> yeah, and thanks or all your testing efforts :)
<olli> I hope that by 14.04 the vote will be in the different direction ;)
<knome> tvoss_, olli: if you don't mind, we won't mind you being on the channel available for possible questions and discussion in the future
<ochosi> +1
<olli> knome, I will try to idle around
<tvoss_> knome, I will be around
<olli> but you guys know, that #ubuntu-mir is just around the /j corner ;)
<knome> tvoss_, olli: and finally, thanks again for working with us and really taking us into account!
<knome> anybody else with closing thoughts? :)
<GridCube> I think that what we all think its that is great to have the developers here, trying to help us to make the best desition
<knome> definitely
<GridCube> and that we hope that if things keep this way in the future we can rethink our position for future releases
<knome> #subtopic Proposal for more structured handling of Xubuntu bugs
<knome> skellat is not around, so passing
<knome> #subtopic Inclusion of Xfce 4.11 components in Xubuntu 13.10?
<knome> since developers aren't around, we can't make final decisions... however,
<knome> ochosi, would you like to list components that we should consider, since you have been overlooking the xfce development lately?
<ochosi> well the most important part of xfce4.11 in my personal opinion is the improved multi-monitor support
<ochosi> that is part of xfce4-settings
<ochosi> bluesabre, mr_pouit and me were working on that
<ochosi> xfdesktop also bears quite some improvements
<knome> i assume that would bring the much discussed display-dialog in as well
<ochosi> yes, xfce4-settings == display dialog (amongst others)
<ochosi> and i think some of the keyboard-shortcut issues (primary vs. ctrl) were solved recently
<ochosi> for the display dialog we should at least (if we don't include it by default) point ppl to the 4.12 dev ppa
<knome> what's in with xfdesktop more specifically?
<ochosi> a revamped settings-dialog, nicer workspaces support
<knome> #info xfce4-settings to bring in improved multi-monitor support along with a nice display dialog
<ochosi> the settings-dialog doesn't just show a fixed list, but the content of a folder
<ochosi> i've also been involved in that a bit
<knome> #info xfdekstop to bring improvements in settings dialog and better workspace support
<ochosi> you can also set different wallpapers per workspace
<ochosi> which is a feature many wanted for a long time
<knome> what about the panel indicators patch?
<knome> i know that's not exactly 4.11, but is something that relates to that
<ochosi> i've been sitting behind a really slow mobile internet connection, so i wasn't able to put the pieces together unfortunately
<knome> okay, but would you think that would be something we wanted to consider?
<knome> "that" being a patch that allowed running gtk3 indicators in a gtk2 panel
<ochosi> well there are two options:
<knome> which would mean we wouldn't need to maintain the gtk2 indicators, and we'd get back some lost features
<ochosi> 1) use patched gtk2 panel with gtk3 indicators
<ochosi> 2) use gtk3 panel with gtk2 xfce plugins and gtk3 indicators
<ochosi> tbh i've only tested the latter
<ochosi> that was stable though, i even have theming for it in a separate branch of greybird
<ochosi> i've been trying to get a hold of andrzejr, the author of the patches and maintainer of the indicator-plugin for a few days now
<knome> do you think you would have some time and a decent enough connection to work on that before the FF?
<knome> #info Several options to enable GTK3 indicators for the panel
<ochosi> i'll have a bad connection until the end of august, then i'll be moving to italy, so possibly no regular connection at all for the first weeks
<ochosi> at least not in a way that i can promise
<knome> okay
<knome> let's postpone that for 14.04 then
<ochosi> yeah, if no-one else can test it
<ochosi> i mean it's not extremely hard to do, i can possibly write up some instructions
<knome> i can test, and we can organize broader testing, but things would need to work first :)
<knome> sure, so let's see if we can do that
<ochosi> ok
<knome> #action knome to be in touch with developers in cherry-picking xfce4-settings and xfdesktop from 4.11 to 13.10
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to be in touch with developers in cherry-picking xfce4-settings and xfdesktop from 4.11 to 13.10
<knome> #action ochosi to write instructions on testing panel with gtk3 indicators enabled
<meetingology> ACTION: ochosi to write instructions on testing panel with gtk3 indicators enabled
<knome> #subtopic Virtual Ubuntu Developer Summit August 2013 Participation?
<knome> there was some discussion about this, and we'll probably schedule two off-vUDS-schedule sessions
<knome> #action knome to send information about vUDS participation/sessions to ML later this week
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to send information about vUDS participation/sessions to ML later this week
<knome> #subtopic Status Report on Strategy Document revisions 
<knome> #info TODO
<knome> #action knome will send drafts of changes to the ML later this month
<meetingology> ACTION: knome will send drafts of changes to the ML later this month
<knome> #subtopic Schedule next meeting
<knome> do we want a meeting next week (FF day)?
<skellat> Meh
<pleia2> what a cheerful response
<skellat> pleia2: Not feeling the most well
<knome> it's also one week before B1
<knome> and the B1 freeze day.
<pleia2> +1 to meeting next week
<knome> okay
<skellat> Put it on the 28th?
<pleia2> (even if I hate waking up at 8AM :))
<knome> pleia2, you can do wed?
<lderan> poor pleia2 :P
<skellat> That'll have us the day before Feature Freeze
<knome> skellat, which is useless if things are still "TODO" :)
<pleia2> yeah whatever :)
<knome> but i do think it's better than FF day.
<knome> #info Next meeting: 28 Aug at 15UTC
<knome> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Aug 22 15:55:41 2013 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2013/xubuntu-devel.2013-08-22-14.59.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2013/xubuntu-devel.2013-08-22-14.59.html
<knome> thanks.
<knome> i'll put up the minutes on the wiki later today
<skellat> How do we want to announce the Mir decision?
<knome> i'll post a quick post in my blog
<knome> can retweet that
<knome> want something else?
<skellat> No, not really.  We may catch some static but that's expected.  My apologies for being rather quite late to the meeting.
<knome> no problem
<skellat> But, to have it logged, I concur in both votes.
<ochosi> knome: testing the gtk3 panel is not bad, but a bit vane, as long as there are no devs around...
<knome> ochosi, i realize that.
<ochosi> but yeah, it's not like it's entirely meaningless
 * skellat is off to play staff driver
<knome> minutes are up.
<smartboyhw> ALL: Re-test Xubuntu alternates plz.
<smartboyhw> The screen should have gone away
<knome> published http://open.knome.fi/2013/08/22/xubuntu-team-no-mir-for-13-10/
<elfy> belated thanks for the meeting 
<Unit193> knome: Yes thanks.  Is this good for you? http://paste.openstack.org/show/44927/  I'll continue to stick up images if it'd help in the least, or if it'd help tvoss_
<knome> worksforme
<elfy> if you keep me in the loop I'll continue to seed it 
 * knome puts elfy in a hamster loop
<elfy> that works too :)
<elfy> not for long though - I'll break that
<knome> hah
<knome> i'm sure you'll break yourself first :P
<elfy> :)
<knome> i would!
<knome> (break myself first)
<Unit193> elfy: Sure.
<elfy> knome: you must be a lot smaller than your fingers sounded on the keyboard then :p
<knome> huh? :P
<elfy> :)
<olbi> hello guys, long time pasted since I was here :D
<Unit193> Indeed!  Welcome back.
<knome> hullo
<ochosi> wb olbi 
<olbi> nice features will be in 13.10 :D I'm waiting for this release because I want leave 12.04 LTS with some hacks :D
<elfy> going to have 2 32bit alternate tests left shortly if anyone has some time spare
<Unit193> knome: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2144468 was what was linked to, looks fairly sane.
<Unit193> elfy: All else fails, I can vbox 'em.
<elfy> that's all I've been able to do mostly
<elfy> did some 32bit desktop installs on hardware 
<Unit193> Meh, they have the stupid new system...
<elfy> who do?
<Unit193> QA tracker.  Added the next meeting to the calendar.
<elfy> seems the same as it did last year more or less
<elfy> there's just autoresize on 32bit alternate left by the time I'm done
<Unit193> 526KB/s Sloooow.
<elfy> indeed
<Noskcaj> Unit193, that's super fast
<Noskcaj> for me at least
<ochosi> wow, skippy-xd has become really snappy
<Unit193> Not really, the Canonical servers always lag to Ohio.
 * pleia2 blames ohio
<Unit193> >_>
<pleia2> :D
<Unit193> :D
<elfy> seems like the obvious thing to do pleia2 and I live thousands of miles away
<Unit193> ochosi: Not in repos?
<ochosi> Unit193: yeah, i can send you a link to the ppa though
<ochosi> the new maintainer/dev is quite responsive, i already filed bugs/requests on his github project page and he fixed them immediately
<jjfrv8> elfy, I did the auto-resize 32-bit alternate testcase on real hardware
<Unit193> Hah, oh well.  I'm just finishing it up in vbox, you win.
<jjfrv8> :)
#xubuntu-devel 2013-08-23
<Unit193> forestpiskie: Ditto, ran it, worked.
<pleia2> oh, knome blogged but we didn't actually update the -devel mailing list with our decision
<Unit193> That one guy also has the same graphics card as me.
<skellat> Have we checked off our 12.04.3 ISOs as ready to release?  Do we feel ready to release?
<Noskcaj> knome: Since i wasn't able to get to the meeting, so things i should add. 1. I support not using XMir. 2. I've got settings 4.11 in the debian experimental SVN repository, It should be released to experimental this week. 3. idicator plugin 1.0 is waiting on someone who knows C who can fix the patch
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: I saw the indicator-plugin, not sure where to start for the patch
<Noskcaj> bluesabre: It looks like they've completely changes the code layout. micahg said he'd do it eventually, but he's very busy
<bluesabre> right
<Noskcaj> ochosi: I'm willing to test the GTK3 stuff, just get that how-to ready
 * Noskcaj just realised he's not in ~xubuntu-dev or ~xubuntu-team, i insulted
<Noskcaj> *is
<bluesabre> I'm not in -dev either, since it grants upload rights to the main repos (I believe)
<Noskcaj> bluesabre: in that case, i shouldn't be allowed in that team
<Noskcaj> .me is also butthurt because no-one voted for him in the meeting
<Noskcaj> * /me
<Noskcaj> It's be butthurt day
<Unit193> Seems you get insulted very easily.
<Noskcaj> Unit193: something like that
<skellat> Noskcaj: You've only got a few things left in the queue on mentor.debian.net at the moment it seems: http://mentors.debian.net/packages/uploader/noskcaj%40ubuntu.com
<Noskcaj> skellat: yeah. I merged the three xfce ones into the SVN repo, and someone helped me get convertall into debian
<Unit193> Someone is trying to get mariadb in, nice.
<skellat> It looks like convertall just got in: http://packages.qa.debian.org/c/convertall.html
<Noskcaj> yeah. It got uploaded two days ago, but only today has some of the links worked and everything updated
<skellat> I get to wait 10 days or so before it hits Jessie and then I can install it on my BeagleBoard that is running Xfce on Debian
<skellat> Hopefully it syncs to saucy
<skellat> That should happen automagically
<Unit193> No, DIF happened.
<Noskcaj> I'll file a sync bug when i get hom
<skellat> Unit193: Paperwork says it did but some things are still migrating over like the new version of calibre.  I checked LP and nobody ordered a sync specially on it.
<skellat> At least, not since I requested grabbing the version stuck in experimental...
<Noskcaj> skellat: the core-devs and motus can sync without bugs
<skellat> *nods*
 * skellat wanders off to ponder what he is screwing up this time with feed2imap
<Guest7372> jjfrv8 Unit193 - thanks chaps :)
<ochosi> Noskcaj: i can only do a tutorial once it works for me (which it doesn't atm)
<ochosi> i still have some issues, i guess some libraries are linked wrongly
<Noskcaj> ochosi, ok
<ochosi> i'll ping you once i got something
<knome> bluesabre, thanks
<cub> knome, have you got any reactions to the mir/xmir decision?
<knome> cub, yeah. a few that i don't feel like publishing...
<cub> I can imagine
<bluesabre> ochosi: if you need a hand figuring it out, let me know
<ochosi> bluesabre: i do :)
<GridCube> the #xubuntu-es channel will be taken down and all traffic to will be redirected to #ubuntu-es, probably next week or so.
<Noskcaj> I've merged the eyes plugin from upstream. it's at https://code.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/ubuntu/saucy/xfce4-eyes-plugin/4.4.2
<knome> now that's a useful one
<knome> have you checked the popcon stats on how many people have it installed? 
<knome> (useless, but good for package learning purposes, i assume)
<Noskcaj> knome, ubuntuwire says 3857
<Unit193> 18748 xfce4-eyes-plugin               3859    23  3817     8    11 (Marsaud Jonathan)
<knome> so that's about... 3% of our users
<Noskcaj> Since we ship it currently, it can't hurt to have the newest version, and remove the lintian error
<knome> heh. right.
<knome> i suppose
 * knome shrugs
<knome> :)
<Noskcaj> logan is checking the package now,  he seems to be the lintian error guy
 * Noskcaj rage quits xfce4 eyes plugin
<skellat> Noskcaj: Why are you full of rage?
<skellat> Or engaging in a rage quit, I should ask.
<Noskcaj> skellat, 1. I deleted the bzr branch i was using. 2. This plugin has taken at least 6 hours of my life and still doesn't work
<Noskcaj> I'll try gthumb now, even it is easier
<skellat> Okay
<Noskcaj> On a  happier note, i think gtumb might work this time
<Noskcaj> *gthumb
<Noskcaj> Should we ask to drop the eyes plugin? 
<Noskcaj> And the time-out plugin
<Noskcaj> And gthumb won't work either. I think i'll go and make a bomb
<knome> Noskcaj, i would ask not to say such things, even as a joke.
<Noskcaj> knome, I'm serious though, it's for a birthday party. I'm making a small bomb
<Noskcaj> And for a school science project
<knome> Noskcaj, fine, but consider how talking about bombs after "raging" about something else sounds.
<knome> Noskcaj, it's not going to earn you any trust.
<Noskcaj> ok. 
<Noskcaj> and sorry
<knome> no problem
<knome> have fun with your school project
<knome> but think twice next time (and all other consecutive times)
<Noskcaj> will do
<knome> thanks
#xubuntu-devel 2013-08-24
 * skellat is going dark on IRC for now since he has a music festival to help run this weekend and can be best reached at skellat@ubuntu.com in the interim
<Noskcaj> There's been some talk of Lubuntu software center being an active project again. It can be re-named light software center if we're willing to use it
<ochosi> Noskcaj: have you tested it yet? last time i tried it really wasn't ready yet
<Noskcaj> ochosi, I've not tested it yet. It purely talk at this stage. mh0 said he wanted to take over the project, and there's another guy whose made some fixes before who might help. I'll try and fix up some debian/ things too
<Noskcaj> i think Unit193 knows more than i do on this
<ochosi> alrighty
<Unit193> But everyones been ignoring me on the subject...
<Noskcaj> Then speak again, now
<Unit193> I'll get right on that.
<Unit193> knome: POKE, http://xubuntu.org/getxubuntu/ .3 was released.
<knome> Unit193, yeah, i'm on it
<knome> done
#xubuntu-devel 2013-08-25
<Noskcaj> I've got eyes working now, but bzr won't let me use 4.4.2.
<Noskcaj> A better version of 4.4.1 is ready for merging at https://code.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/ubuntu/saucy/xfce4-eyes-plugin/eyes/+merge/181985
<smartboyhw> Noskcaj, why wouldn't it allow you to use 4.4.2 in the first place?
<Noskcaj> smartboyhw, some part of pristine tar brakes every time. I don't have time to fix it today
<smartboyhw> Noskcaj, use uuupdate -v 4.4.2 (upstream tar)
<smartboyhw> *uupdate
<smartboyhw> And just put everything back into the bzr branch:)
<Noskcaj> Thanks for the idea
<Noskcaj> don't i have to change a bzr tag or something?
<smartboyhw> Noskcaj, well, copy the original 4.4.1 bzr branch into another dir. In that dir use uupdate. Do all the changes for that, then dump all into the bzr branch:
<smartboyhw> :)
<Noskcaj> ok, ty
<Noskcaj> And uupdate just does weird stuff. 
<smartboyhw> Noskcaj, i.e. ?
<Noskcaj> crashes
<Noskcaj> I have to go now. Is there any chance you could look at it (basing of my branch)
<smartboyhw> CRASH!?
 * smartboyhw thinks Noskcaj have a strange computer
<Noskcaj> Yay, settings 4.11 is in experimental
<ochosi> nice
#xubuntu-devel 2014-08-18
<bluesabre> ochosi: just the one
<bluesabre> ochosi: latest daily packages, brightness icon is white again
<ochosi> bluesabre: yeah, it's possible that i haven't pushed the brightness icon yet, don't remember right now
<slickymasterWork> morning everyone :)
<ochosi> morning
<slickymasterWork> hey ochosi. I'm back :)
<slickymasterWork> everything that's good it's bound to have an end :(
<slickymasterWork> so did my holidays 
<ochosi> sorry to hear
<ochosi> hope you enjoyed yourself
<slickymasterWork> from the look of my email I see that I have a lot to catch on
<slickymasterWork> yes I did. Three weeks of nothing but surfing and biking 
<ochosi> slickymasterWork: sounds awesome
<slickymasterWork> ochosi: I've just finished 2014-07-29 meeting log and starting the 2014-08-14 one
<slickymasterWork> do you know if knome has started on pkexec yet?
<ochosi> not sure, haven't talked to him about it yet
<slickymasterWork> ok, I'll ping him about it
<slickymasterWork> I see there's also the new NetworkManager item to be worked on
<bluesabre> slickymasterWork, wb
<bluesabre> ochosi: thing is, the icon was correctly colored, at least for a day
<ochosi> bluesabre: hm, fun :)
<ochosi> lemme check
<bluesabre> ochosi: also, trying to add properties to the indicators with the greeter, e.g. ~separator:expand:nohide
<bluesabre> er
<bluesabre> :nodraw
<bluesabre> and :center
<bluesabre> ~spacer has the same issue as the xfce panel, can't really center anything
<slickymasterWork> hey bluesabre, thanks. It's good to be back
<ochosi> mm, i see
<ochosi> bluesabre: tbh i'm not sure why it's not working
<bluesabre> if I can't accomplish that, we'll just make the login panel look like the desktop panel (which, maybe we should do anyway)
<ochosi> as far as i can see, the icon is there in the correct size in the icontheme
<ochosi> could you check whether anything changes if you switch to -dark or elementary-xfce?
<ochosi> (i'm on a desktop here atm, so can't test anything)
<bluesabre> elementary-xfce is correct
<ochosi> i could actually drop the icon for the brightness plugin from the icon theme, that'd make things a lot easier...
<ochosi> so how about -dark? (i presume you were using -darker)
<bluesabre> -dark is white
<bluesabre> -darker is white
<ochosi> argh
<ochosi> just found the issue i think
<bluesabre> maybe just drop the white ones from 16/22/24 ?
<bluesabre> er
<bluesabre> keep them for those sizes
<bluesabre> still early
<ochosi> yeah, i could, that'd mean not supporting the brightness plugin anymore
<ochosi> ok, could you quickly edit elementary-xfce-dark/index.theme
<ochosi> change "MinSize=24" (or whatever it is) to MinSize=33
<ochosi> and then sudo gtk-update-icon-cache
<ochosi> these panel icons are really tricky
<bluesabre> no good
<ochosi> i guess you're using -dark now, right?
<ochosi> cause it could be that the icon-cache doesn't work if you update -dark but use -darker
<ochosi> you can also set the minsize to 48
<ochosi> or drop Min and MaxSize
<bluesabre> updated -dark, switched to -dark
<bluesabre> trying 48
<ochosi> hm, that's really the only reasonable explanation i can think of right now
<bluesabre> 48 failed, dropping min and max failed
<bluesabre> I'll let you work it out ;)
<ochosi> argh
<ochosi> does the brightness icon have a shadow below it or not?
<ochosi> i mean the white version
<bluesabre> yes
<ochosi> ok, then it
<bluesabre> otherwise I'd think there was no icon
<ochosi> 's the 22px version
<ochosi> so the min/maxsize approach couldn't have helped anyway
<ochosi> btw, what are the chances of getting xfpm's 1.4 release into utopic?
<ochosi> (there won't be too many new features, mostly bugfix i think)
<bluesabre> ochosi: depends when it lands
<bluesabre> but we should be able to if its reasonable soonish
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> well we're targetting debian i think
<ochosi> so might need a FFe for that
<ochosi> and i guess it'll help that we already have 1.3.1
<bluesabre> yeah
<ochosi> we're waiting for translators and new bugreports atm
<bluesabre> cool
<bluesabre> Heading to work, bbl
<ochosi> and trying to fix a few remaining issues
<ochosi> hf
<elfy> and roundabout now in #xubuntu is exactly why ditching gksu for a non-working pkexec is a big fail 
<ochosi> yeah well, users who don't know what they're doing at all are not really a super-cool argument for shipping gksu...
<elfy> so I give up caring about the end user?  - who IS likely to have no idea at all, because some people in *buntu decided it's not a good idea and then nothing replaces it
<ochosi> that's really not what my argument was about...
<elfy> I'd love to see the logs of the discussion from when it was decide to remove it, and how that took into consideration the user
<ochosi> ok, overstating it a bit so that it's clear: i think a user who doesn't know how to install gksu should probably not use it
<elfy> because frankly I can't see how it's better for the end user to go from something that worked to nothing at all
<slickymasterWork> ochosi: thing is that your argument is also valid for pkexec
<elfy> and beforehand they didn't need to do that did they, they could just be told to use gksudo thunar to do a taks
<ochosi> slickymasterWork: thing is, pkexec doesn't just execute any random command with superuser rights, but specific apps that potentially need superuser rights
<elfy> not for us in 14.04 it doesn't ochosi 
<ochosi> we can ship a profile for thunar and pkexec in 14.04.2
<elfy> and now we've got someone telling someone to use sudo thunar instead of sudo -H or something
<ochosi> no need to be so upset (or if you are, let's channel that into more constructive ways)
<elfy> I'm not upset - it just annoys me that the discussion that was had didn't deal with this then I guess
<ochosi> i think at least within xubuntu we didn't have much of a discussion, or if we did, i don't remember
<ochosi> and anyways, complain to knome about it. 14.04 is his responsibility ;)
<elfy> lol
<elfy> was before my time I think - I certainly don't remember anything
<ochosi> either way, we can either whine about it or try to get a pkexec profile for thunar and e.g. terminal included in 14.10 at least
<elfy> or reuse gksu
<ochosi> i
<ochosi> i'd prefer to try to make pkexec work first
<ochosi> i personally don't see that profiles are needed for that many apps
<elfy> I'd personally guessed at the 3 I did profiles for here
<elfy> though the thunar one's now not working
<elfy> nor mousepad - both cannot open display
<ochosi> well after creating the profiles for the apps we need, step 2 is to bug bluesabre about including the profiles in the packages and upload then
<ochosi> s/then/them
<elfy> yep - well it appears that the ones in the roadmap page are not longer working 
 * elfy starts the long winded task of checking out -core again ... 
<ochosi> hm, why are they not working anymore?
<elfy> no idea ochosi - I get Cannot Open Display now :|
<elfy> for all 3 
<ochosi> right, but why?
<elfy> no idea ochosi - I didn't work out the syntax I just amended it to suit 
<brainwash> ochosi: found something interesting, please take a look at bug 1325675
<ubottu> bug 1325675 in xfce4-indicator-plugin (Ubuntu) "Indicator Plugin Area Refuses to Match Xfce Themes & Certain Icons are Cut Off" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1325675
<brainwash> not sure about 2., but 1. may be caused by the gtk theme not supporting gtk3, right?
<ochosi> 2. is known
<ochosi> ubuntu changed their indicator api shortly before the release
<ochosi> because they wanted to support hidpi displays
<ochosi> so the indicator icons (which used to be hardcoded to 22px) come in any size now
<ochosi> and the plugin doesn't handle this anymore, because it still assumes that the icons are always 22px
<ochosi> putting that icon in a folder that is defined as fixed size in index.theme in the icon-theme fixes the issue btw
<ochosi> "fixes" = works around it
<brainwash> mmh, yeah, you should tell the affected people about this workaround :)
<ochosi> and yeah, issue 1 is probably what you suggested
<ochosi> feel free to quote me ;)
<brainwash> argh :D
<brainwash> so it's a dupe of bug 1313531
<ubottu> bug 1313531 in xfce4-indicator-plugin (Ubuntu) "Huge Wallch icon in Xubuntu 14.04" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1313531
<ochosi> yup
<brainwash> ok
<ochosi> and yeah, andrzejr gave the explanation there
<elfy> ochosi: so they used to work in the old install, but because I use gksu I didn't know they were missing from this one ... once they are there - they all work fine
<ochosi> elfy: err, so what, the files in the wiki work after all?
<elfy> indeed they do
<ochosi> ok, then let's add an item to development for bluesabre to upload them
<elfy> we going to sru this back to 14.04 at some point too?
<ochosi> yeah, we can, but first step is to get it into 14.10 either wa
<ochosi> y
<elfy> not so sure we need to bother with terminal tbh - sudo -i or any number of other options for that
<ochosi> right, so only thunar and..?
<elfy> mousepad is the only other one 
<ochosi> right, makes sense
<ochosi> so those two bluesabre should have access to
<ochosi> or even Noskcaj 
<elfy> the files are all on the roadmap for it 
<elfy> added to trello and features blueprint
<ochosi> cool, thanks
<elfy> those files might need tidying up - not sure, but they all work
<ochosi> could you report a bug against mousepad and one against thunar adding those files?
<elfy> okey doke 
<ochosi> ideally link them to the features blueprint
<ochosi> then things should go ahead smoothly
<elfy> yep 
<elfy> ochosi: launchpad only - or bugzilla?
<ochosi> for now launchpad is fine, although mousepad is more active than thunar, so you could give that a try
<elfy> ochosi: ok - both done on LP, mpad on bugzilla and linked, both added to blueprint
<ochosi> sweet, thanks a lot elfy 
<elfy> s'ok :)
<lullis> Hi. I have a few questions regarding the AppIndicator on xubuntu. I am trying to write an indicator applet (using python), and documentation is sparse, to say the least. The few source samples I found, I was expecting to see an indicator showing up, but no dice. Will the best way to take a look into an existing indicator (I found indicator-weather who seems to be a single 3kLoC python program) and reverse engineer the API?
<rowboatn1ck> isnt the indicator bar just a gtk widget?
<rowboatn1ck> lullis: statusicon?
<ochosi> lullis: yeah, i think the docs are scarce. i guess people who have written indicators have used other indicators as examples
<ochosi> also, not that the api changes a lot
<ochosi> if you wanna do something just for the xfce panel, a plugin would be better, and it's actually not that hard to do (and there's a sample plugin)
<brainwash> bug 1293287 should be fixed in utopic, but what about trusty? could or should it be fixed via backports at some point?
<ubottu> bug 1293287 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "xubuntu 14.04 'xfdesktop --reload' no longer cycles wallpaper image" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1293287
<brainwash> by backporting the new dev release 4.11.7
<lullis> ochosi, it will have to be an indicator. Basically I have an application that deals with authentication through sd cards, and I need to put this indicator on both the desktop panel and on the login greeter.
<ochosi> lullis: i see. then i guess you have no choice but to look at existing examples. you might also want to ask around in #ubuntu-desktop
<lullis> Ok, thanks.
<elfy> Unit193: https://sigma.unit193.net/~unit193/core.html so Install gets you the tasksel, command-line doesn't - but currently BOTH still require the apt-get install command, - core is missing from selection
<elfy> ochosi bluesabre ^^
<elfy> ochosi: so what's the plan with this and utopic - or are we going to revisit it in valiant vampire ?
<ochosi> elfy: i'm waiting for Unit193's feedback on this. have no idea what it would take to fix that so it's hard to judge for me whether we can fix it in time for 14.10
<elfy> ok - well I'm just drafting testcase(s) 
<elfy> Unit193: if you could have a look http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-core thanks
<Unit193> ochosi, elfy: Right, both require you to install xubuntu-core^ right now because tasksel hasn't been updated, I've pinged the person a couple times, but he's been on vacation I believe so that won't help much.
<ochosi> Unit193: who's "the person"?
<elfy> okey doke - thought it was something like that
<ochosi> so i guess we can get that fixed after FF, right? (i mean tasksel being updated)
<Unit193> ochosi: cjwatson.
<elfy> ahh
<knome> slickyma1ter, haven't, i've been busy with stuff, like laying around the summer cottage ;)
<brainwash> shouldn't xubuntu-default-settings provide the pkexec policy files for thunar and co?
<knome> wouldn't it be better if they were shipped with the application packages itself? that way *anybody* using thunar could get that policy...
<knome> i mean of course it's a fair fallback *for now* to ship them in the default settings package
<brainwash> so it has be included upstream?
<brainwash> has to be
<brainwash> bug 1358361
<ubottu> bug 1358361 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Thunar needs a pkexec policy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1358361
<brainwash> is targeting ubuntu
<knome> well, i'd imagine getting it included in upstream *xfce* would be the most ideal situation, but that's unlikely to happen/propagate for 14.10 at least
<knome> i was referring to the thunar package in ubuntu
<brainwash> right, kinda late
<knome> late and practically we'd have to get 1) policy added in the repository 2) release for all appropriate packages 3) aforementioned landed in debian and 4) synced to ubuntu
<brainwash> but still, xubuntu users will expect pkexec to work like gksu for every app, won't they?
<knome> so that might be a stretch even vrt. 15.04..
<knome> of course they will.
<brainwash> oce it works for thunar, mosuepad and ...
<brainwash> once
<knome> that's why it's a fair fallbac *for now* to go the default settings route
<knome> and sure, they'll expect it to work in non-default apps too
<ochosi> that's one of the reasons why i prefer pkexec over gksu, it doesn't *just work* for any app that might not even need it
<knome> when it doesn't - well, then they'll have to file a bug and wait for the change to land to the package
<knome> hey ochosi ;)
<ochosi> people who know what they're doing can be trusted to install gksu
<brainwash> sudo xfdesktop4 :D
<knome> ochosi, and when you say that, everybody becomes one who can be trusted ;)
<ochosi> well i don't care what users do to their systems willingly
<brainwash> people just fall back to sudo
<ochosi> but i prefer to ship sane defaults
<brainwash> sudo works every time and breaks everything :)
<knome> brainwash, that's their pick, and they live with the consequences
<brainwash> and spam the forums and chats with questions about their broken user accounts :/
<knome> aren't they doing that with PPA's already?
<ochosi> actually we asked via the mailinglist for users to submit apps they need to use with superuser rights
<ochosi> not the huge turnout
<knome> i mean, sure, it's stupid, but there are *already* a dozen ways to break your installation
<Unit193> So we should add more, cool.
<knome> how are we adding more?
<knome> i thought we were introducing something that was less prone to break stuff.
<brainwash> just noticed that the daily iso only ships firefox-locale-en
<brainwash> did something change?
<brainwash> should we be worried? :)
<ochosi> wow, here's one for all the folks who complain about light-locker: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1358504
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1358504 in unity (Ubuntu) "Screensaver leaks password key-presses through to applications" [Undecided,New]
<knome> great..
<ochosi> well, nobody said writing a secure lockscreen from scratch was easy (which is why we didn't with light-locker) :p
#xubuntu-devel 2014-08-19
<bluesabre> hey all
<bluesabre> ochosi, knome, elfy: maybe we should add pkexec policies to xubuntu-default-settings instead of individual packages to maintain translations... thoughts?
<bluesabre> + Unit193
 * bluesabre finally reads the rest of the backlog
<bluesabre> but yeah, for translations, I think it has to be either upstream or with xds
<bluesabre> ^ http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-default-settings/trunk/revision/502
<Unit193> I'd vote upstream, then.
<skellat> ochosi, bluesabre: This needs follow-up by one of you -- http://askubuntu.com/q/512257/139532
<elfy> bluesabre: that makes sense to me
<elfy> ochosi bluesabre - there were updates today for a couple of gstreamer packages, tied up with bug 1346821
<ubottu> bug 1346821 in media-hub (Ubuntu) "media-hub-server uses all system's memory (sigkill send to init)" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1346821
<elfy> appears to fix the issue with parole bug 1356979
<ubottu> bug 1356979 in parole (Ubuntu) "Fast forward/jog during a track changes to next playlist track" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1356979
<elfy> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/media-hub/+bug/1346821/comments/9
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1346821 in media-hub (Ubuntu) "media-hub-server uses all system's memory (sigkill send to init)" [Critical,In progress]
<Unit193> elfy: http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-core doesn't have them select "Install" or "Command-line install", not sure if it's planned.  The tasksel name is 'Xubuntu minimal installation', not sure if that matters to you.
<Unit193> (Also removed the "Welcome to Ubuntu etherpad")
<elfy> yea - it does - that's why it's a draft, I copied stuff from elsewhere 
<elfy> write what needs to be written please :)
<Unit193> And I'll have to see how exactly that boots, or when you can select it.
<elfy> should be in the same place as http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-testcase/ubuntu-manual-tests/trunk/view/head:/testcases/image/1504_Netboot%20Install%20%28Desktop%29
<elfy> line 32/33 I think
<knome> bluesabre, upstream is the ideal situation, and IMO should be the long-term goal. doing it in x-d-s is ok for now
<ochosi> elfy: have you noticed any issues with gtk3 apps in utopic so far?
<ochosi> i mean do they look and work okay? (e.g. evince or file-roller)
<ochosi> ok, answered that question myself, evince, file-roller and the likes are still in their 3.10 versions (i.e. without CSD) so xubuntu by default at least is safe
<ochosi> ali1234: ^
<ochosi> (obviously this doesn't apply to other distros or xfce in general, which is why i posted it here)
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> check file requester windows though
<ali1234> because those always get CSD if it is available
<ochosi> file requester? you mean the open-file dialog?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> also pretty much any modal dialog
 * ochosi is afraid to look
<ochosi> ali1234: they look fine in 14.10 as far as i can tell
<ochosi> yup, they patched it out, like i suspected
<brainwash> elfy: does your policy file also work with /usr/bin/Thunar (the symlink)?
<elfy> nope
<brainwash> add it or just ignore the (useless) symlink
<brainwash> would anyone run "pkexec Thunar"?
<ochosi> elfy: btw, eric told me last night that "if you are trying to do pkexec thunar in the org.xfce.thunar.policy file make sure you have <annotate  key="org.freedesktop.policykit.exec.allow_gui">TRUE</annotate>
<ochosi> "
<ochosi> background: pkexec won't pass $DISPLAY or $XAUTHORITY by default (and running a full gui program as root is a bad  idea)
<slickymasterWork> knome, we could do the pkexec and the new NetworkManager items for the docs, if you want, and afterwards start to work on the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/slickymaster/LinksMergeSandbox stuff 
<elfy> off to work again
<brainwash> and what about an additional script called thunar-pkexec? it basically runs pkexec thunar "$@"
<brainwash> like gparted-pkexec
<bluesabre> ochosi: got it
<ochosi> bluesabre: if you're still looking at the greeter (not like this is a huge issue though), we could try to improve the padding in the shutdown/restart dialogs. the icons look a bit off in gtk3.12
<bluesabre> ochosi: we'll do that for 1.9.1
<ochosi> ideally they'd be vertically centered: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-08192014-121717pm.php
<bluesabre> I agree
<ochosi> we can also drop the icons though
<ochosi> they don't really add much to the meaning of the dialog
<knome> slickymasterWork, sure... let's see when we both have time :)
<ochosi> lunchtime, bbl
<bluesabre> ochosi: want to test something when you get back in trusty?
<bluesabre> pull latest lightdm-gtk-greeter, then run
<bluesabre> ./autogen.sh; make; make distcheck
<bluesabre> let me know if it finishes
<bluesabre> skellat: responded.
<brainwash> ochosi: bug 1193716 is fixed now, but is it worth to tell people that they can request the package to be backported to trusty?
<ubottu> bug 1193716 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu) "Xfce Power Manager does not override the screen saver timeout (X11 Screen Saver extension)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1193716
<brainwash> I'm not sure how to handle this backport option? do we even provide any backports for trusty as of now?
<brainwash> bluesabre: can we close bug 1349056 ?
<ubottu> bug 1349056 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu) "xfce4-power-manager doesn't suspend on lid closed (regression)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1349056
<elfy> ochosi: I really know little about pkexec - if it needs fiddling about with then someone else will have to do so
<brainwash> why did someone move all the dupes to bug 1357090 ?!
<ubottu> bug 1357090 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Black screen on resume Xubuntu 14.04.1 #1303736 NOT fixed" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1357090
<elfy> ochosi: there's certainly no org.xfce.thunar.policy atm - just one I knocked together which says something else entirely
<elfy> bluesabre might want to hold fire if the policies need to be changed 
<ochosi> brainwash: not sure an entirely new version of xfce4-power-manager will be backported to trusty
<ochosi> and anyway, the stable 1.4 hasn't even been released yet
<ochosi> but yeah, you can still mark it fixed
<brainwash> so we don't do backports?
<ochosi> i'm not sure i wanna port back something like the power-manager
<ochosi> it theoretically needs new icons too
<ochosi> it's not like we only fixed bugs from 1.2 to 1.4
<ochosi> people who want it can get it from a PPA i'd say
<ochosi> that is, when it's released
<brainwash> ok
<ochosi> brainwash: also, please don't subscribe me to reports like https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/+bug/1357090
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1357090 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Black screen on resume Xubuntu 14.04.1 #1303736 NOT fixed" [High,Confirmed]
<ochosi> i mean seriously, we close a bugreport and people open a new bugreport referencing that bugreport?
<brainwash> "Input from the Xubuntu team would be much appreciated here"
<brainwash> it's a mess
<ochosi> the comments suggest that the two guys have entirely differnt issues
<brainwash> and it's targeting xubu default settings
<brainwash> so, someone has to stop this madness :)
<ochosi> right so do something other than subscribing me
<brainwash> should I tell you to write a comment instead?
<ochosi> you should write one yourself
<ochosi> you know pretty much as much as i do about this issue
<brainwash> right, it's fixed
<ochosi> it's fixed or a different issue
<brainwash> any suggestion for a new target package?
<brainwash> apparently it cannot be fixed in xubu default settings
<brainwash> because there is nothing to fix
<ochosi> not sure, could be anything, from graphics driver to x11
<ochosi> anyway, i'm going back to ignoring that bugreport now
<ochosi> lderan: since feature freeze is only two days away I'm presuming we're postponing your workitem (GUI for panel-switch)?
<knome> if it's almost ready or sth, i could work on the exception paperwork
<knome> given that it would be ready soon, that is
<ochosi> not sure that lderan has even started
<ochosi> i mean it shouldn't be so hard, since the app is already there and does what it should
<slickymasterWork>  Language: Finnish	Status: 99,75%	Untranslated: 2 <- https://translations.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs/utopic
<slickymasterWork> knome ^^
<knome> bah
<knome> it's going to get prodded down anyway, no reason to sweat now ;)
<slickymasterWork> lol, I know
<knome> besides, i just finished a translation for a wordpress plugin and fixed a lot of stupid mistakes and badly translated strings in it
<slickymasterWork> about this morning ping, when you see you have the time to spare on those items ping me, please
<knome> i'm not even using it (except for a client), but i got so annoyed by the stupid translations that i thought i'd just fix it ;)
<knome> i will
<slickymasterWork> a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do
<knome> i guess i could have theoretically charged the client for that, but it somehow didn't feel right.. :)
<slickymasterWork> :)
<mhall119> hey guys, we're having pleia2 on in ~30 for the Community Team Q&A if you can help promote it on Xubuntu's social media accounts: http://ubuntuonair.com/
<knome> mhall119, do you have a tweet about it?
<mhall119> knome: https://twitter.com/ubuntu/status/501735865367150592
<knome> ah.
<knome> https://twitter.com/Xubuntu/status/501738674749730816
<knome> tweeted.
<knome> wondering what those "horrible customizations" are? https://twitter.com/DrTuxWang/status/497611065698820097
<knome> and by what means are we "infected by unity libraries" ?
<ali1234> lol, unity libraries actually break xubuntu
<ali1234> he could be talking about indicators though i suppose
<pleia2> getting ready for zee hangout
<knome> ali1234, if i'm connecting the dots correctly, he's a person with a ban on #xubuntu...
<elfy> ochosi: so - using org..xfce.thunar.policy doesn't work - on a seperate note the policy file I have that does work has that allow_gui in it
<ochosi> elfy: i'll ask eric to specifically review our policy files as he seems to know more about all this
<elfy> good plan :)
<elfy> no good me doing it - I'll just flounder and thrash about for a bit getting no closer to the shore :p
<elfy> ochosi: did you see my garbled message this morning re the jog in parole issue?
<elfy> or rather - see it and understand :p
<ochosi> elfy: if i understood you correctly, you said that the issue in gstreamer1.0 with skipping has been fixed
<elfy> good :)
<ochosi> any clue yet whether that'll be backported to trusty?
<elfy> none - is it a bug in trusty then - because I never noticed that 
<ochosi> hm, i thought i had seen that
<ochosi> can't be sure now though (too tired after a day in the office)
<elfy> :)
<ochosi> elfy: eric was kind enough to review the policy files and they're ok as is
<elfy> awesome :)
<elfy> I knew they *worked* - but making sure they're ok for anyone else was something else entirely
<ochosi> elfy: yup, in any case, well done! (and thanks)
<brainwash> the thunar policy file is missing pkexec in the filename
<brainwash> com.ubuntu.pkexec.mousepad.policy
<brainwash> com.ubuntu.thunar.policy
<brainwash> just ignore this fact?
<slickymasterWork> bbl ->
<elfy> screens blanking after 10 minutes for some reason - set to never 
<ochosi> elfy: 10mins is the default time, you're controlling it via xfpm?
<elfy> yea - set to never
<elfy> was ok the other day
<elfy> xset -q is showing screen saver timeout at 600
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> then something's not working
<elfy> yep
<ochosi> maybe a regression, i'll investigate
<elfy> ok - basically I have everything set to never - always, hence knowing when something's up :)
<ochosi> yup
<elfy> ochosi: you got any idea when you'll be setting the next meeting? time mostly I'm interested in
<ochosi> i think i wanna do one next week, to be able to review FF and potential FFe
<ochosi> so something like tue or wed, 11UTC
<ochosi> elfy: can you check the settings in xfce4-settings-editor for xfpm plz?
<ochosi> blank-on-ac and blank-on-battery are the values we're interested in
<ochosi> (in minutes)
<elfy> ochosi: blank-on-ac is 0 and blank-on-battery si not there at all - no battery here, desktop
<ochosi> ah ok
<ochosi> well good to know, i'll have to dig further though what's broken
<ochosi> bbabl
<elfy> ok
<bluesabre> hey everyone
<bluesabre> brainwash: renamed the policy file in lp:xubuntu-default-settings
<bluesabre> It'd be cool if the bots added links for lp: addresses
#xubuntu-devel 2014-08-20
<bluesabre> Unit193: poke
<bluesabre> Can you bump http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~unit193/+junk/xfpm-pkging/view/head:/debian/changelog to 1.3.1?
<Unit193> bluesabre: Sure thing!
<bluesabre> Unit193: Thanks!
<Unit193> Sorry I haven't done it sooner.
<bluesabre> It's cool
<bluesabre> Noticed today when I reported bugs to ochosi and was running an old version :)
<Unit193> Also, thanks for fixing the policy kit name in x-d-s. :P
<bluesabre> yeah, I'll push that out either tonight or in the morning
<Unit193> Glad they're in /usr/share/ though.
<Noskcaj-school> Unit193: Can you have a look at xfpm's new lxde plugin support? You've done more stuff with lubuntu than me, so hopefully you'll be able to get it to work. I've not been abke to get it to build (thinks lxde-panel isn't there)
<Noskcaj-school> Also, is there anything that xubuntu needs work on ATM? I've got nothing till the upower shitstorm arrives
<Unit193> Noskcaj-school: It won't "detect" lxpanel as there is no -dev package nor the required files in the main package.
<Unit193> !find lxpanel.pc utopic
<Unit193> !find lxpanel.h utopic
<ubottu> Package/file lxpanel.pc does not exist in utopic
<ubottu> File lxpanel.h found in lxpanel
<Unit193> man5/lxpanel.hints.5.gz doesn't quite count.
<Unit193> catfish 1.2.1-1 uploaded by Sean Davis <smd.seandavis@gmail.com> (Closes: #758652) https://tracker.debian.org/catfish
<Unit193> bluesabre: Might want to sync that, past DIF and nearly hitting FF.
<Unit193> (And I'm sure the email from Debian FTP Masters indicated this same info. :D )
<bluesabre> yup, I'll sync that in the morning ;)
<bluesabre> and yeah, we'll want to enable the lxpanel plugin for the lubuntu folks
<bluesabre> heading to bed now, bbl
<Unit193> G'night, you being up late and all. :P
<Unit193> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-indicator-plugin - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-panel dang hot spots...
<ochosi> good morning
<knome> hey ochosi 
<ochosi> Unit193: yeah, indeed. sucks a bit that andrzejr has become so busy himself lately (since most of those bugs could be addressed by him)
<Unit193> Mhmm.
<ochosi> but frankly, that's really a big problem, that the bugtrackers are all so unmanaged and overflowing
<ochosi> took me a really long time to get e.g. xfpm down to a reasonable amount
<Unit193> The washer of brains does pretty good with them at times.
<ochosi> (which wasn't surprising i guess, after two years of oblivion)
<ochosi> mmh
<ochosi> Unit193: so wrt -core, we just wait until cjwatson returns, then we can do wider testing on it?
<Unit193> For the tasksel update, which is what we'd really like, yeah.
<ochosi> i mean generally i don't see a huge problem in shipping that even if it's not very discoverable atm, it doesn't seem to break or inhibit anything else
<Unit193> People should not be using `apt-get install xubuntu-core`, which is the obvious thing, though. :/
<ochosi> well we can blog about that though
<Unit193> And even worse, updates are going to suck. :P
<ochosi> around the release
<Unit193> Sure, OK.
<ochosi> if you could draft some basic info on that, that'd be great
<ochosi> (i'd start writing it from a pov where we assume tasksel has been updated)
<ochosi> elfy: tried to debug your problem with xfpm not setting the blank timeout last night, couldn't reproduce it
<ochosi> but then again, i wasn't using xfpm1.3.1 but git master (although i think we didn't touch anything blank-related there)
<knome> mhall119, i've just approved your message and added you to the auto-approve list of xubuntu-devel
<ochosi> elfy: fwiw, i can't reproduce that issue on neither trusty nor utopic. it always sets the blank time just fine
<ochosi> elfy: one thing you can do is pull the slider back and forth to see whether that updates the setting in X11
<ochosi> elfy: it's possible that you still have a desktop file setting the blank timeout left from light-locker-settings (the file ~/.config/autostart/screensaver-settings.desktop is obsolete with xfpm>=1.3.1)
<brainwash> the user needs to remove or uncheck it manually?
<brainwash> should be added to the release notes then
<ochosi> nah
<ochosi> lls has been updated meanwhile
<ochosi> this is only an issue for ppl who have been running utopic for a while already
<ochosi> (actually starting up lls once will remove that file from autostart too, so it's not a huge issue for upgraders either)
<brainwash> nice
<ochosi> yeah, bluesabre has done a really nice job on lls
<ochosi> so yeah, if you wanna backport xfpm1.4 to trusty, lls should also be backported
<bluesabre> <3
<ochosi> plus the icons
<bluesabre> morning all
<ochosi> bluesabre: i'll try to translate the rest of the appdata files for catfish today (or now, depending on when you're going to release)
<ochosi> and good morning to you too :)
<bluesabre> no hurry
<bluesabre> pushed the release out last night since it was dead for debian
<ochosi> the UI is fully translated already though
<ochosi> oh, i see
<bluesabre> and because FF is tomorrow
<ochosi> sure
<ochosi> the xfpm release would happen in about 6hrs or so
<ochosi> hope that's not too late
<bluesabre> oh nice
<ochosi> well, and if it is, we can file a FFe
<bluesabre> and this release includes..?
<ochosi> dropping of >100 icons in three sizes, small bugfixes, rename of the panel plugin
<ochosi> the only feature is the dropping of the icons actually
<ochosi> and more translations obviously
<ochosi> hm, reminds me i still have to draw a notification icon for our theme for keyboard-brightness
<bluesabre> ah, right
<ochosi> might do that now, maybe you have time to quickly test it
<bluesabre> so, another update for x-d-s too then for the plugin rename
<ochosi> or you can also do that tomorrow
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> bluesabre: anything i can help you with adhoc right now?
<bluesabre> hm
<bluesabre> not really, unless you want to go through and add translations to our various apps
<ochosi> just forwarded the italian translations to some guys on g+
<ochosi> right, well i can take a few mins for that, if you want
<ochosi> links?
<bluesabre> https://translations.launchpad.net/light-locker-settings
<slickymasterWork> hey, I thought I already had translated light-locker bluesabre ?!
<slickymasterWork> still 3 strings missing :P
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> we did a new release a few days ago
<bluesabre> I'll have a mugshot update tonight, so ignore that one for now
<ochosi> hum, did a few strings for lls
<ochosi> (in italian)
<slickymasterWork> ok, I'll go and finish light-locker, for now
<bluesabre> thanks guys
<bluesabre> also, good job here: https://translations.launchpad.net/gtk-theme-config
<bluesabre> will do translation releases for trusty too this weekend
<bluesabre> https://translations.launchpad.net/menulibre
<bluesabre> https://translations.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings
<brainwash> ochosi: ok, no need to backport xfpm, but what about xfdesktop 4.11.7 from utopic? can it be easily sru'd (micro release) or backported?
<slickymasterWork> consider those done, by the end of the day bluesabre ;)
<slickymasterWork> at leats in pt
<bluesabre> great, thanks!
<slickymasterWork> np
<ochosi> bluesabre: ok, done with german, and improved things a bit in italian
<bluesabre> brainwash: unless there is some feature or user-facing change, then yeah, could be sru'd to trusty with micro release
<ochosi> (despite all the annoying timeouts)
<bluesabre> ochosi: yeah, translations.launchpad is super bad for timeouts
<ochosi> bluesabre: not sure marking "128px" etc as translateable makes much sense...
<ochosi> (in menulibre)
<bluesabre> I'm sure it benefits some languages ;)
<ochosi> okeydokey ;)
<slickymasterWork> https://translations.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings -> done
<slickymasterWork> https://translations.launchpad.net/light-locker-settings -> done~
<brainwash> elfy: want to register a blueprint page for xubuntu 14.04.2?
<ochosi> Unit193: cjwatson is around
<Aurvandill> hello
<ochosi> !hi
<ubottu> Hello! Welcome to #xubuntu-devel! Please note that this channel is for Xubuntu developer coordination. For support questions, please use #xubuntu. Offtopic chatter in #xubuntu-offtopic.
<elfy> ochosi: so that's an mmm then @10: 15 "elfy: it's possible that you still have a desktop file setting the blank timeout..." and then @ :51 "actually starting up lls once will remove that file from autostart to" not for me it didn't - I'd been into lls after I found it was still wrong, file still existed
<ochosi> elfy: right, i think bluesabre hasn't released/uploaded that version of lls yet
<ochosi> so removing that file fixed it?
<elfy> it would appear to have - screen is still up 40 minutes later :)
<elfy> I'll see when I get back from work 
<ochosi> elfy: well, 40mins is actually a long enough period to be sure ;)
<ochosi> thanks for testing that agai
<ochosi> n
<elfy> ochosi: yea - couldn't remember exactly when I did something - it'll definitely be sure later
<ochosi> bluesabre: fwiw, improving the icons in xfwm4's tabwin won't be so easy, potentially means introducing a libwnck depend (which wouldn't be that bad though)
<elfy> ochosi: yea, all fine here without that .desktop file hassling me :)
<ochosi> cool
<ochosi> so nothing we have to worry about for 14.10
<elfy> I'll try not to find anything else :p
<brainwash> ochosi: should the sound indicator open pavucontrol for the normal Xfce session? it only works for the xubuntu session as of now
<brainwash> bug 1359249
<ubottu> bug 1359249 in indicator-sound (Ubuntu) "Launching PAVUControl works from Xubuntu, but not from Xfce" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1359249
<ochosi> brainwash: not sure, it's a single line that controls that though, so it should be easy to find out
<brainwash> trying to find the original bug report for xubuntu
<ochosi> original?
<brainwash> the report which requested the change for the xubuntu session
<ochosi> why is that needed?
<ochosi> brainwash: added a comment
<brainwash> ochosi: ah, thanks :)
 * elfy assumes it's the same in unicorn
<ochosi> ofc
<ochosi> i just linked to the 14.04 code cause the bug is for 14.904
<ochosi> 14.04
<Unit193> bluesabre: Will you be around today?  Before midnight UTC?
<ali1234> i just found the "make it look like" menu in gmusicbrowser... that's the best thing ever
<elfy> the best thing ever would be "make it not work like gmusicbrowser" :p
<ElderDryas> I still want it to look (and act) like Pandora :)
<ali1234> i havent' attempted to actually listen to music with it yet
<ali1234> i appear to have somehow made it "look like" a player with no buttons or menus, and now i can't fix it
<ochosi> haha
<ochosi> you can easily close gmb and then edit the gmbrc file in ~/.config/gmusicbrowser
<ElderDryas> or throw it away and start over
<ochosi> "Layout: Shimmer Desktop"
<ali1234> well it looks like rhythmbox, but it doesn't *work* like rhythmbox
<ali1234> search is broken, track sorting is broken...
<ali1234> why are we shipping this?
<elfy> rhythmbox compact perhaps - there's not buttons there :)
<ali1234> yeah that was the one that killed it for me
<elfy> because knome thinks it's the best thing since sliced bread I think
<ali1234> in fact with that layout the actual layout seems to randomly change each time you restart it
<ochosi> ali1234: feel free to do an app-comparison an suggest alternatives
<ali1234> rhythmbox is really the only sensible alternative
<ali1234> banshee is okay but it needs mono, the users will burn us if we make that a dependency
<ochosi> why would rhythmbox be the only sensible alternative? (other than you liking it)
<ali1234> because it's the only good gtk music player
<ochosi> anyway, app comparisons work fine
<ali1234> i literally can't think of any others
<ochosi> expand your horizon? :)
<ali1234> exaile maybe? never tried it
 * elfy uses gmb twice a cycle 
 * ElderDryas has found that the $playofchoice usually boils down to the ONE thing that it does (better) that others don't.
<elfy> we could always not seed it at all - like irc - we seed parole which suffices
<elfy> ElderDryas: yea - agreed
<SkippersBoss> evening all
<elfy> hi SkippersBoss 
<SkippersBoss> Long time no see
<SkippersBoss> have we landed in a music player war
<elfy> not really :)
<ali1234> i know music services are all in the cloud now but i think we still need a music library manager
 * SkippersBoss thinks the best player is the one I want to use every day. Sadly other have a different view
<elfy> mine aren't ali1234 
<SkippersBoss> that' ok
<ali1234> i don't listen to local music that much these days, it's all youtube, soundcloud, spotify and internet radio stations
<brainwash> let's just ship a browser, that's all you need :)
 * elfy uses clementine - and has for a long time 
<SkippersBoss> ali1234,  and that defines what your music player must do
<ali1234> i still have a local library though
 * SkippersBoss likes clementine but has moved on to guayadeque
<SkippersBoss> Just my preference. 
<elfy> tried that for a while
<SkippersBoss> Choice is what matters here
<elfy> yep
<ali1234> i like the two-pane search interface style, i think it's the easiest to understand
<ali1234> i don't like making playlists, that's too much work
<SkippersBoss> And you are entitled to your choice.. However others have different requirements.. There is no one program that does it all for every one. That's why there is choice.
<ali1234> we have to pick something though
<SkippersBoss> I personally like tagging
<ali1234> putting the most complicated kitchen sink app onto the default install is not a good idea
<SkippersBoss> True
<SkippersBoss> But I  have dropped in the middle of a ongong argument. Why are we dropping gmusicbrowser
<ali1234> have you tried to use it?
<SkippersBoss> The simple choice
<ali1234> it's not simple at all
<ali1234> it's trying to be configurable like all those amarok-inspired players, but it's really buggy
<SkippersBoss> I am not into skins
<elfy> ali1234: perhaps we should ship it with less layout options 
<elfy> SkippersBoss: these aren't skins so much as different layouts
<SkippersBoss> my bad
<SkippersBoss> I favor the keep it simple approach
<Unit193> elfy: "because knome thinks it's the best thing since sliced bread I think" and ochosi.
<knome> elfy, i agree it's fair to say you could compare dropping xchat to dropping gmb. that being said, i'm ok to drop gmb, but then i'm also not sure if we are actually dropping something too "essential"
<elfy> possibly - never really discussed it with ochosi 
<elfy> Unit193: ^^
<knome> (i'm also ok with another media player choice, but as it stands, we've cycled through many as our defaults)
<elfy> knome: I'm really not that bothered - I dislike gmb intensely as you know, but that's not a reason to drop it :)
<elfy> I just don't use it 
<knome> yep
<knome> fwiw,
<ali1234> i normally just install rhythmbox
<ali1234> never tried gmb before today
<knome> i really think we should consider dropping abiword, gnumeric and gimp before 16.04..
<SkippersBoss> You could just mention others in the faq
<Unit193> elfy: Grid, you, me, etc.
<SkippersBoss> in favour of ??
<Unit193> knome: I'd understand the first two, but would like to keep gimp.
<knome> in favour of nothing.
<SkippersBoss> You want to drop Gimp?
<knome> i think gimp is the worst offender, it's really big and most of our users do not really need most of the features.
<ali1234> i don't really see any need for gimp in the default install
<ali1234> if you know what it is, you know how to install it
<ochosi> one of the reasons for adopting gmusicbrowser was that i was contributing to the project
<SkippersBoss> I take it Pleia isn't around ?
<knome> it's like installing a garage to store a tin of paint
<elfy> SkippersBoss: it only came back since we got too big for a cd iirc
<pleia2> SkippersBoss: what's up?
<ochosi> oh wow, we should probably do a team meeting right now, since everybody's here :)
<pleia2> haha
<SkippersBoss> I thought you would go nuts for dropping gimp
<elfy> ochosi: lol
<knome> ali1234, exactly, same way as other advanced tools and app groups with usually hard preferences (irc client, office suite..)
<ElderDryas> pleia2's here, give her her 3rd chance to run one :)
<pleia2> SkippersBoss: it's sad, but users are used to it
<ali1234> the big difference with gimp is there really isn't any alternatives
<ali1234> but, it's a high level "professional" tool that most people don't even need at all
<pleia2> since ubuntu doesn't have one
<knome> ali1234, yep. we've looked for lighter alternatives, but there are none
<ali1234> there aren't even heavier alternatives :)
<knome> except that gimp is not really professional enough to be used by professionals.
<SkippersBoss> Gimp is euhm Gimp, in a class of it's own
<knome> ali1234, cinepaint? :)
<genii> Maybe mtpaint?
<ali1234> isn't cinepaint a gimp fork anyway?
<knome> genii, i'm sure we've looked at that, and there was something eww about it ;)
<knome> ali1234, mate is a fork of gnome, but it's still a competitor/alternative...
<genii> Hm
<ali1234> there's krita too, but none of these things do the same thing as gimp
<knome> right, last version released on 2011
<knome> krita is kde/qt
<ali1234> yes, of course
<ali1234> even kde does not have a photo-manipulation tool
<knome> so it's out of question to begin with for xubuntu
<pleia2> there's tux paint
<knome> pleia2, i'm sure we looked at that too...
<knome> oh lol
 * knome facepalms
<Unit193> I think the gist of it is...
<pleia2> yeah, pretty sure we're bikeshedding now
<ElderDryas> I vote for blue
<knome> the argument so far has been "there is no alternative for gimp, so let's keep it"
<ali1234> i dont hink that's a good reason to keep it
<pleia2> also, I <3 gimp
<Unit193> ElderDryas: What's wrong with Green, or red?
<ali1234> it's only a good reason to choose gimp if you want something that does what gimp does :)
<knome> which is *kind of* fair... but otoh, it's like "there is no good alternative for libreoffice, so install it"
<ElderDryas> Unit193: Blue fades so nicely
<knome> (no, i'm not proposing to install libreoffice)
<elfy> say that on the m/l :p
 * SkippersBoss uses gnumeric but will accept that others favour Libreoffice
<Unit193> Two minutes later, on Webupd8, "Xubuntu to install Libreoffice by default, drops gnumeric and abiword."
<knome> the only situation when it's a problem to install gimp/something else after the installation is offline circumstances
<knome> maybe there should be some kind of ISO that acts like a repository with that extra stuff
<knome> we could maintain it in cooperation with, say, lubuntu and other friends.
<Unit193> But the whole thing is slightly moot at this point, FF is today so playing with the seed isn't a great idea.
<knome> Unit193, for 15.04.
<knome> i understand it's not a simple/quick task
<knome> and i'd like a bit more discussion from the team anyway
<ali1234> a better example of "no good alternative" would be inkscape
<ali1234> that's arguably just as useful as gimp
<knome> ali1234, on a VERY personal level, i'd really wouldn't mind dropping gimp and replacing it with inkscape.
<knome> ali1234, but i understand there's a lot wrong with that thought ;)
<ali1234> i use both regularly, so that's swings and roundabouts to me
<Unit193> Meh, it's more complicated and "not as useful" to "beginners".
<ochosi> knome: not sure whether a cooperation on such a repo would work as soon as lxde is lxqt
<zequence> The two aren't used for the same purpose though
<zequence> They are not the same type of applications
<knome> ochosi, hmm, right
<knome> zequence, i said there's a lot wrong in that :P
<ali1234> zequence: right, we're not saying one should replace the other
<knome> i know they are different.
<knome> i'm not REALLY proposing it.
<knome> and i'm not proposing to include inkscape anyway
<knome> people who want to use it, can install it
<SkippersBoss> Knome: you want Xubuntu to become a barebone release with an extra ISO covering the apps ?
<ali1234> the question is, why do we ship one but not the other, given that they're both similar in the type of user they are pitched for
<Unit193> knome: If the Mate desktop becomes official, we'll still share GTK stuff with them and a little with Ubuntu Gnome, and of course always UbuntuStudio, but all for different purposes.
<ali1234> even KDE people are going to want gimp
<knome> SkippersBoss, that's not exactly what i'm after, but we seriously do not need a tool for every imaginable task
<knome> ali1234, and maybe libreoffice.
<SkippersBoss> I am with you on that
<ali1234> yeah
<knome> Unit193, sure
<knome> the ISO could be pretty much about gimp/libreoffice
<ali1234> and inkscape :)
<knome> maybe
<knome> i mean, i don't mind if we don't have that ISO
<knome> i'd like to know how many people even install their machines in offline circumstances AND want gimp/LO
<knome> maybe more if we decide to drop abiword/gnumeric
<Unit193> Or, slower internet too.
<ali1234> we'll never know, because they are offline
<knome> Unit193, that too
<knome> ali1234, well they got their ISO somehow
<elfy> bloke up the road
<elfy> or something 
<Unit193> Gridders?
<knome> well then the bloke can report it ;)
<knome> i mean sure, it's a hard thing to measure.
<elfy> the bloke runs win98 and just did it for a favour :p
<knome> then too bad
<knome> slow/no internet, no "support guy" and new to linux sounds like a bad idea anyway
<knome> i'm not sure if it's realistic to ultimately be helpful for that person anyway
<Unit193> The support fella is elfy.
<knome> because what are they doing with their computer anyway without internet?
 * elfy is bloke with win98 
<elfy> knome: playing a bunch of music someone gave them on parole
<knome> hah.
<knome> that's becoming a very border case anyway
<knome> whenever we are talking about this, i'm thinking of like, africa.
<Unit193> I still support border cases, but yeah doesn't have to be default.
<knome> constant slow connetions, maybe the DVD is used by dozens of people
<ali1234> do we actually know anything about what "africans" actually want, or are we just guessing based on stereotypes?
<knome> Unit193, i'd like to support them too, but yep, it's wonky.
<knome> ali1234, of course we are guessing
<knome> except pleia2 was in africa..
<knome> ali1234, though that is/is not the point
<Unit193> I know someone on IRC from South Aferica, but he uses Kubuntu. :P
<knome> ali1234, we don't know about those cases anyway, so there is less reason to keep gimp/office suite
<knome> ali1234, just as much there is more reason to keep them...
<knome> Unit193, south africa != africa :P
<pleia2> most people still use internet cafes to download big things, or cellphone dongles that don't support linux anyway (sigh)
<Unit193> Yeeeep.
<knome> pleia2, question is: do they need abiword/gnumeric/LO or gimp? :P
<knome> pleia2, if they do, is it a problem to get that in the internet cafe?
<pleia2> in Ghana at least the school curriculum requires office knowledge (it doesn't specify Microsoft)
<pleia2> and some training centers actually teach LO
<knome> pleia2, do you think it'd be a problem for somebody in the school to grab an ISO with LO?
<knome> pleia2, i mean, if that was available...
<pleia2> no
<knome> or do the students need to handle that themself
<knome> yeah
<pleia2> and they don't use gimp
<knome> so an office suite on the main ISO maybe isn't as essential as we think
<pleia2> well, not having an office suite is pretty meh
<SkippersBoss> Complete office suite no 
<knome> people in belgium can get their office suite anyway.
<pleia2> I'm ok with dropping gimp, but going without an office suite is painful
<knome> having abiword that breaks every cycle is pretty meh...
<SkippersBoss> People in Belgium will have a fast internet connection
<Unit193> pleia2: Including gnumeric/abiword?
<pleia2> at least abiword/gnumeric get you limping with office support out of the box
<pleia2> but honestly I'd prefer LO
<Unit193> That it does.
<Unit193> And, SkippersBoss uses it at least, so that's someone.
<knome> pleia2, yeah, but installing that... meh.
<pleia2> and we've had this discussion with users about a billion times
<pleia2> LO is better, isn't as bad as it used to be (much faster)
<pleia2> s/bad/slow, monster
<knome> Unit193, craft an ISO for me... :P
<knome> Unit193, drop gimp, abiword and gnumeric. add libreoffice writer.
<SkippersBoss> Xubuntu to favour Gnumeric because /me uses it lol Not a good enough reason
<SkippersBoss> I can live with that
<Unit193> knome: libreoffice-writer, libreoffice-gtk, libreoffice-calc?
<knome> Unit193, while you're at it, remove gmb
<SkippersBoss> Why calc
<ali1234> i think we need a spreadsheet as a minimum
<knome> Unit193, yeah, i guess you can add -calc
<knome> i'm most interested in the ISO size
<pleia2> yeah, need spreadsheet
<SkippersBoss> Add LO writer let people install calc
<knome> common LO packages are quite big, so in a way it isn't too bad to install more components at that point
<ali1234> everyone who has to deal with money in any capacity needs a spreadsheet - that's everyone
<SkippersBoss> pleia2, you have a fast inernet connection
<SkippersBoss> ok, /me sold
<ali1234> unless they are like 12
<knome> ali1234, actually... :P
<knome> well, i only use spreadsheets for invoices.
<ali1234> ironically i have a separate app for that :)
<knome> but yeah, i guess it's essential..
<knome> can't think me writing invoices manually with writer
<ali1234> yeah that would really suck
<knome> even though it would be possible.
<knome> i'm off now, but i'm back later
<SkippersBoss> type writers.... who would sell the ink tape
<SkippersBoss> Ah ok
<knome> don't let me being away stop discussing :)
<elfy> gnumeric and abiword are apps I use like gmb - run them to test testcases and to test 
<SkippersBoss> So LO writer  and calc yes
<SkippersBoss> gmb a mayb but display options reduced
<SkippersBoss> Gimp a mayb or a No ?
<ali1234> my problem with gmb is more about the weird bugs and quirks
<elfy> and I assume that if we used LO we'd be able to forget about bugs as a team
<ali1234> except for the theme bugs, yes
<ali1234> libreoffice-gtk has many quirks that only show up with certain themes
<SkippersBoss> I feel a warning notice coming up... 
<ali1234> those are all superficial anyway though
<SkippersBoss> anyone any other thoughts ??
<ElderDryas> ali1234: Are these "theme bugs" in LO with the themes that Xubuntu ships with or other/add on themes?
<ali1234> ElderDryas: each theme seems to trigger a different set of quirks
<ElderDryas> ali1234: Including the "shipped with" themes?
<SkippersBoss> Mind you, Abiword has had the same issues in the past
<ali1234> ElderDryas: yes, shimmer themes trigger some
<Unit193> knome: libreoffice-math is pulled in too.  Not looking fantastic, but not too bad.
<elfy> well if nothing else - if we do move we've got a while till 16.04 :)
<SkippersBoss> Yes but that's a long time in which things could brake
<elfy> but that's the time scale we've got to work with
<elfy> is my point
<SkippersBoss> Fair enough
<SkippersBoss> Super ficial I can deal with. A mention in the FAQ could help here
<ali1234> here's an example of the type of bug i'm talking about: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nY0uA5yI8Y
<elfy> brainwash: drag and drop something to desktop here ignores where I've dropped it 
<ali1234> the tick box doesn't redraw until you move the mouse off it
<ali1234> this one only happens in compiz, and not xfwm
<ali1234> but it's representative of the kind of thing i mean
<ali1234> it's trivial but can be confusing if you click the checkbox and it doesn't change
<SkippersBoss> ah compiz
<ali1234> it still happens with xfwm slightly, but there the middle part of the checkbox redraws, and there's just an orange border left behind
<SkippersBoss> people I have to leave you all for now. Family business to attend to
<Unit193> knome: Yeah, a tad on the big side. :/
<elfy> cya SkippersBoss 
<SkippersBoss> but thiw discussion is not over
<elfy> Unit193: but then again - what has size got to do with the argument - surely we're not close to 4.6Gb with it :)
<ali1234> Unit193: how big?
<Unit193> ali1234: 1078804480 vs 1007681536 32bit utopic both.
<ali1234> something we didn't consider is people who use the live system as their main environment
<elfy> should we?
<ali1234> i dunno, just saying we didn't :)
<elfy> :)
<elfy> I'd be happy to consider them - just not at the expense of people that are installing to disk
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/97896/  I use it as a live system on my flash, but then again I don't count as it's my own build.
<elfy> and how much extra would it be if we'd lost gimp too 
<elfy> if that's the concern here
<elfy> if not just ignore me :)
<Unit193> ~30MB, I'd say.  https://unit193.net/dump/xubuntu-14.10-lo-i386.iso
<ali1234> so a net gain of 40mb?
<brainwash> elfy: thanks for testing, actually thought that it was fixed at some point
<Unit193> ali1234: That'd be in addition to the 70MB from gnumeric, abiword, and gmusicbrowser.
<ali1234> wait, the 1078804480 figure is with or without gimp?
<Unit193> That still has gimp installed.
<elfy> brainwash: welcome, I commented 
<ali1234> and it's 70MB bigger than the standard one, so without gimp it would only be 40MB bigger... is what i was saying
<Unit193> Correct, just have to remember you're trading a music player, image editor, and office suite for another office suite.
<Unit193> Could perhaps blacklist -math, at least keeping that one out.
<elfy> on the other hand - why are we worrying about size 
<Unit193> Because 1G is our max right now, IIRC.
<ali1234> yeah, fitting on a USB flash drive is a good thing
<Unit193> Though, most that'd be in use at this point I'd hope would be bigger than 1G, more like 4 or 8.
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, Could you upload https://code.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/ubuntu/utopic/xfce4-session/merge2/+merge/231095 ? bzr is having issues with it, so it would probably have to be a straight upload
<elfy> yea
<Unit193> !info xfce4-session | Noskcaj 
<ubottu> Noskcaj: xfce4-session (source: xfce4-session): Xfce4 Session Manager. In component universe, is optional. Version 4.10.1-3ubuntu5 (trusty), package size 592 kB, installed size 2606 kB
<Unit193> !info xfce4-session utopic
<ubottu> xfce4-session (source: xfce4-session): Xfce4 Session Manager. In component universe, is optional. Version 4.11.0-1ubuntu1 (utopic), package size 598 kB, installed size 2600 kB
<Unit193> Bleh, stupid default...
<Noskcaj> oh
<Noskcaj> I'd missed that
<Unit193> There's still the xfce4-volumed merge, super simple too.
<Unit193> Nope, not volumed, -mixer?
<Noskcaj> ok, i'll do that today
<Unit193> http://metadata.ftp-master.debian.org/changelogs//main/x/xfce4-mixer/xfce4-mixer_4.11.0-1_changelog heh, well you should know about it.
<knome> Unit193, mhm, i'm not really willing to go over 1GB :)
<bluesabre> evening folks
<ochosi> evening bluesabre 
<ochosi> heading off to bed already
<bluesabre> ochosi: wimp
<ochosi> hey, i did my release! ;)
<ochosi> now you do yours before you start calling me names
<bluesabre> fair enough
<bluesabre> :P
<ochosi> :>
 * bluesabre has to do releases and upload them all in one night
<bluesabre> fuuuunnn
<bluesabre> ;)
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> well you can focus on those where the FFe will be hardest to get through
<bluesabre> !info light-locker-settings utopic
<ubottu> light-locker-settings (source: light-locker-settings): simple configuration tool for light-locker. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.4.0-0ubuntu1 (utopic), package size 18 kB, installed size 278 kB
<ochosi> yeah, that needs a new version
<bluesabre> ochosi, elfy ^ that's the newest one
<bluesabre> but I guess there are some issues
<ochosi> oh, it is?
<bluesabre> yeah
<ochosi> with the xfpm detection?
<bluesabre> that should work fine
<bluesabre> yeah
<ochosi> err? :)
<bluesabre> yes, xfpm detection works in that version
<ochosi> Unit193: you saw my convo with cjwatson i presume?
<bluesabre> but yeah, I'll do some debugging
 * bluesabre returns to reading backlog
<ochosi> well, after FF
<Unit193> ochosi: Right after you pinged?  Wasn't much of one, more of a "Oh right, that."
<ochosi> Unit193: well at least he promised to take care of it soon
<Unit193> Thought he was going to already?
<ochosi> no clue, that was the first time i talked to him about it
<bluesabre> Unit193: you needed something?
<Unit193> bluesabre: Don't have it yet in Debian, you can't sync it yet. :3
<bluesabre> carry on
<bluesabre> ;)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Are you permitted to do a fake-sync yet?  The cutoff is midnight UTC right?
<bluesabre> I do not know when the cutoff is
<bluesabre> Midnight UTC Thursday or Friday?
<bluesabre> as in, are we already late?
<knome> i'd say midnight UTC thursday
<bluesabre> I know that the freezes are usually announced by email
<bluesabre> so I'll just keep working
<ochosi> great bluesabre, awesome sauce!
<knome> well, you can double-check by cooperating in #ubuntu-release
<bluesabre> that too
<knome> besides, there's still time before thu midnight :P
<Unit193> Yeah, but I have to get it into Debian first.
<knome> ;)
<Unit193> (The other one I know isn't going to make it.)
 * bluesabre runs a test build before pushing greeter to ubuntu
<ochosi> bluesabre: hope andrew's fix works
<ochosi> now i really gotta finally hit the sack
<bluesabre> it does for 1.9
<ochosi> good night and good luck!
<bluesabre> 1.8.6 fails to build because of gtk deprecations, will have to try trusty later
<bluesabre> but good enough for me to push the package we're interested in
<ochosi> hmm stupid gtk
<bluesabre> xfpm can be tomorrow
<ochosi> okeydokey
<bluesabre> since its just a point release
<bluesabre> got it
<bluesabre> elfy: re the greeter release, we'll need to update the greeter config in x-d-s, so you may notice your hostname and clock missing, everything else should be fine
#xubuntu-devel 2014-08-21
<bluesabre> ochosi: secret to building with lxpanel support?
<bluesabre> checking for optional package lxpanel >= 0.5.6... not found
<bluesabre> lxpanel:  Installed: 0.6.2-0ubuntu1
<bluesabre> bbl to package more stuff in the morning
<Unit193> Alrighty, thanks.
<elfy> Unit193: ochosi - once tasksel is  actually done I guess we can move on a bit and get the testcases up and available for people then call
<elfy> ochosi: noticed a strange thing when writing mails in thunderbird theming wise, not sure if it's *us* or not - http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-210814-075620.php and http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-210814-075656.php
<ochosi> morning elfy 
<ochosi> hm, thunderbird isn't really gtk, so not much i can do abuot that
<elfy> morning boss 
<ochosi> which part looks off to you exactly?
<elfy> I did wonder, but thought I'd mention it
<ochosi> sure, anytime
<ochosi> these things are important, i don't see everything :)
<ochosi> (and for instance thunderbird i don't use)
<ochosi> bluesabre: i'll ask eric, i really have never tried to build with lxde support
<elfy> have a look in the second screeny - below the tool bar - it's *sunk* 
<ochosi> you mean the textarea for the email?
<ochosi> or the formatting toolbar
<ochosi> or the weird lines for the addressees
<elfy> the weird lines is what made me look - but it's almost like from the toolbar down is all at a different level 
<ochosi> right, no, i guess that's a thunderbird "style feature" :)
<elfy> but if it's nothing to do with us - that's fine, I'll fiddle about with it and see what I can find
<elfy> ochosi: then it's a new feature :p
<ochosi> i guess it is, yeah
<elfy> I'll see if others are seeing it in non-Xubuntu
<ochosi> good idea
<brainwash> elfy, ochosi: bug 1347305
<ubottu> bug 1347305 in thunderbird (Ubuntu) "Address fields are grey when composing messages" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1347305
<brainwash> also noticed that the monochrome icons are gone in thunderbird
<brainwash> that's bug 1347124
<ubottu> bug 1347124 in thunderbird (Ubuntu) "Thunderbird monochrome icons missing" [Undecided,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1347124
<brainwash> ^ won't fix :/
<elfy> brainwash: thanks - but odd why it's just appeared here
<elfy> aaah I guess v31
<knome> slickymasterWork, (how) have you translated "ThisEntry" (?)
<Unit193> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=745509
<ubottu> Debian bug 745509 in wnpp "RFP: light-locker-settings -- Simple configuration tool for light-locker." [Wishlist,Open]
<slickymasterWork> knome, where is that one, in MenuLibre?
<knome> yep
<slickymasterWork> give me a second
<knome> i'm mostly wondering if it should be a translation at all, or if i should keep it as is
<knome> i mean, whether it's a known technical term for something
<slickymasterWork> sorry knome, something came up here at work
<knome> Copy text 	
<knome> "Hidden": Hidden should have been called Deleted. It means the user deleted
<knome> (at his level) something that was present (at an upper level, e.g. in the
<knome> system dirs). It's strictly equivalent to the .desktop file not existing at
<knome> all, as far as that user is concerned. This can also be used to "uninstall"
<knome> existing files (e.g. due to a renaming) - by letting make install install a
<knome> file with Hidden=true in it.
<knome> bluesabre, ^
<knome> bluesabre, i don't think that description is something that the *user* needs/wants to read in menulibre
<knome> slickymasterWork, no problem
<knome> bluesabre, thinking same of some of the other tooltips too.
<slickymasterWork> I haven't. And that's not the only one, there's also the tags "NoDisplay", "StartupNotify", "TryExec" that I think shouldn't be translated
<knome> yep.
<knome> those are the tooltips
<slickymasterWork> I was thinking in maintaining them as they are, but I noticed that the french translation opt to translate them
<knome> ThisEntry?
<knome> the tags in "Quotes" should actually not be translated..
<knome> because they are the technical tags in the .desktop files
<knome> so if you understand .desktop-files on a raw level, translating them just confuses you (more)
<slickymasterWork> actually I was just referring to "NoDisplay", "StartupNotify", didn't saw if they translate ThisEntry
<knome> i was referring to those you were referring
<knome> i actually think bluesabre should fix the translation template.
<slickymasterWork> lol, we're speaking about the same thing, tehn :9
<slickymasterWork> hm hm, agree
<knome> and as i said, some of those tooltips go on a way too specific, technical level
<knome> like the "hidden" tooltip
<knome> ^ as posted aboe
<slickymasterWork> exactly
<knome> *above
<knome> it could simply be:
<knome> "The field is stricly equivalent to the .desktop file not existing at all, as far as the user is concerned."
<knome> or, "It's ..."
<slickymasterWork> that's my opinion also. And besides tooltips are ment too be descriptive, not technical 
<bluesabre> knome, slickymasterWork: http://standards.freedesktop.org/desktop-entry-spec/latest/ar01s05.html
<slickymasterWork> bluesabre, but isn't that the template from which to work, thus not meaning it should be transferred verbatim to every application?
<knome> bluesabre, i've looke at that page, but i don't think it's a good idea to copy it word-to-word
<slickymasterWork> shouldn't it be considered like a master script guideline?
<bluesabre> yes
<bluesabre> stop writing the same thing, guys
 * slickymasterWork views it like knome 
<bluesabre> :)
<knome> bluesabre, also, since the tags that shouldn't be translated are at the beginning of the line, you could simply leave them out
<bluesabre> I know, I know
<knome> bluesabre, i mean, even the english version shouldn't be exactly the same as in the docs
<slickymasterWork> yes
<bluesabre> I wanted to fix it, can't really fix it while on the 2.0.x series, has to be with the next release
<bluesabre> I'd be just as happy to drop the tooltips entirely
<ochosi> oh hey bluesabre 
<ochosi> early morning
<slickymasterWork> hey ochosi 
<ochosi> morning slickymasterWork 
<bluesabre> but yeah, haven't worked on menulibre-next yet... spent most of this cycle maintaining 2.0 for trusty/utopic
<Unit193> Hrm, we getting xfpm 1.3.2?
<bluesabre> yeah, I can push it at any time
<bluesabre> ochosi, let me know if you figure out the lxpanel building
<bluesabre> I'm sure the lubuntu folks would be appreciative
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> Aha, that's what it's pending on.
<bluesabre> but yeah, I'll push what I have before heading to work this morning
<slickymasterWork> damn LP timeouts
<ochosi> bluesabre: what's the plan with the display dialog?
<bluesabre> :\ was really hoping nick would appear
<ochosi> well just man up and do the release
<ochosi> ;)
<ochosi> after all, it's just a dev release
<bluesabre> pushed xfpm and xds updates
<ochosi> sweet
<ochosi> fwiw, i've gotten in touch with gilir (via email) a longer while ago about the lubuntu plugin â and we also asked him for some input/feedback/testing, but nothing ever came of it
<Unit193> @ubuntu.com?  He tends to run rather busy.  As far as testing, it'd have to be built but I know who to poke.
<meetingology> Unit193: Error: "ubuntu.com?" is not a valid command.
<ochosi> Unit193: well he did initially reply, so he surely knows about it ;)
<ochosi> he just never gave concrete feedback or tested it
<ochosi> but if you know who to poke, please do so!
<Unit193> Only in terms of testing, like poking the Elf here it won't help with building it properly.
<ochosi> right, then i misunderstood you
<ochosi> i assumed you knew who to poke for building
<Unit193> gilir.
<ochosi> Unit193: wanna poke cjwatson again for tasksel?
<ochosi> right, i can send him another email after sean has uploaded the 1.3.2 package
<Unit193> I could PPA the lxpanel plugin, but that's about it.
<ochosi> well that's something
<Unit193> Annnd, I'm out.
<Unit193> Ahahaha, I see why it's breaking. :D
<Unit193> Shoot, I was supposed to go out.
<knome> "out"? what's that?
<knome> bluesabre, what do you recommend doing with the tooltips with 2.0.x then?
<knome> bluesabre, tbh, i'm considering just untranslating all/most of them for now until we actually have better versions of the instructions
<knome> bluesabre, and, how do you want to cooperate on making the tooltips better?
<bluesabre> well, they're not going anyplace yet (code is frozen in trusty), so do what you think is best
<knome> i'd put them in a pad, but i'm open for anything else as well.
<knome> oh btw,
<knome> hmm, i take that last "btw" back.
<bluesabre> Yeah, let's work together to improve that for next time
<knome> http://pad.ubuntu.com/MenuLibreTooltips
<slickymasterWork> bah, I went on and translated them
<ochosi> Unit193: ehm, so why is it breaking?
<slickymasterWork> but you're right knome, they shoud be reworked/improved
<bluesabre> working on the xfce4-settings package now
<ochosi> great stuff
<bluesabre> suppose I should push a xubuntu-icon-theme package too
<bluesabre> or wait until closer to the next release
<bluesabre> *beta
<ochosi> we can do one for beta or a week before UIF
<ochosi> i mean generally it'd be good i guess for the xfpm icons
<ochosi> but it's not crucial
<bluesabre> yeah
<brainwash> bluesabre: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11057
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 11057 in Appearance Settings "xfce4-settings (git version) regression:the appearance can no longer be changed (bisected)" [Critical,New]
<ochosi> wow, that sounds like fun
<ochosi> brainwash: have you tested/confirmed that?
<brainwash> no
<brainwash> but 3 users follow this bug already
<brainwash> bug report
<ochosi> two of those are auto-added
<ochosi> so in fact only wally added him/herself
<brainwash> I see
<brainwash> does anyone actually use our staging PPA?
<bluesabre> I do
<ochosi> hard to tell
<bluesabre> and have no issues with it
<brainwash> bluesabre: did you try to reproduce the issue?
<ochosi> but it's there for testers primarily, so it's useful either way
<bluesabre> yes
<bluesabre> and it works fine
<ochosi> maybe an arch user?
<ochosi> :}
<brainwash> :D
<bluesabre> you joke, but that's my first thought as well
<knome> ;]
<bluesabre> anybody else using the staging ppa and able to confirm if that is an issue?
<brainwash> not many testers around :/
<bluesabre> plenty of team members
<ochosi> i've been testing it as well
<ochosi> on multiple machines
<knome> bluesabre, do you actually *understand* StartupWMClass?
<ochosi> mostly trusty so far though
<ochosi> so yeah, i can't reproduce the problem either, all works fine
<knome> bluesabre, and what's the real way to describe StartupNotification
<ochosi> righty, gotta grab some lunch now
<ochosi> bbl
<knome> bluesabre, in TryExec, does the menu just check if the file exist or does it run it and expect some kind of reply from it?
<knome> bluesabre, if it just checks it, why is it important that it's an executable?
<bluesabre> knome: StartupWMClass helps window managers/apps to know what to expect when the app is loaded
<bluesabre> knome: StartupNotification, show a busy cursor until the app is started
<knome> ah
<bluesabre> knome: TryExec, dunno, lots of these things were added to the spec back when DEs sucked
<knome> re: StartupWMClass: if you set a string in that, will it be sent, or does the app also need to support it?
<ochosi> wow, http://blogs.gnome.org/aday/2014/08/21/new-human-interface-guidelines-for-gnome-and-gtk/
<knome> or is it a menu-specific thing that the menu/launcher app needs to handle?
<bluesabre> knome, an example of that http://kb.openstudioproject.com/content/fix-double-google-chrome-icon-docky-and-plank
<bluesabre> it's for launchers/window managers to have a better idea
<knome> right, so it has nothing to do with the app supporting anything?
<knome> what if you set StartupNotification to true but the app doesn't support it?
<bluesabre> knome: dunno, that's why these things are in the Advanced tab
<knome> lol
<knome> startup notification is NOT
<bluesabre> I imagine its about how its supported in xfwm, mutter, etc
<knome> it's in the main options..
<bluesabre> oh right
<bluesabre> well, dunno
<bluesabre> some apps define this automatically, others do not
<bluesabre> I'd say its up to the user to kill or enable these things
<knome> yeah, but if you create a new launcher
<knome> and then set that
<knome> what happens if it's not supported?
<bluesabre> Nothing different
<knome> is the cursor going to be "working" forever?
<knome> or just not ever changing to "working" ?
 * bluesabre shrugs
<knome> do you know any application that doesn't support it?
<knome> or is it dependent on the WM?
<bluesabre> I think its dependent wm/app/toolkit
<bluesabre> catfish supports it
<bluesabre> but I did not add that specifically
<knome> right
<bluesabre> probably toolkits handle it so most apps get it by default
<bluesabre> and wm is able to connect process id with x window
<bluesabre> so yeah, its a group effort
<knome> right
<knome> http://pad.ubuntu.com/MenuLibreTooltips should be ready for use now.
<bluesabre> xfce4-settings pushed to utopic
<knome> can you push those to menulibre trunk ^ ? :P
<knome> you can then upload a new version for the translation updates only for utopic.
<Unit193> ochosi: https://launchpad.net/~unit193/+archive/ubuntu/staging/+packages copy lxpanel and xfce4-power-manager to your PPA.
<Unit193> Oh bleh, maybe bluesabre can?
<Unit193> bluesabre: So, Debian lxpanel has --destdir in override_dh_auto_install as the only other package is lxpanel-dbg, Ubuntu added lxpanel-indicator-plugin thus removed the override and used an *install file.  Since then, the -dev package was dropped as all it had was one header file and one pc file and the Ubuntu merge carried over this change, but failed to actually install those files anywhere.
<Unit193> ochosi: ^
<brainwash> Unit193: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfwm4/4.11.2-0ubuntu1
<brainwash> was 02-remove-unused-maximize-button.patch applied upstream?
<brainwash> it's a hacky patch for ubuntu, don't think that anyone approved it upstream
<brainwash> besides they aren't even aware of it :D
<ochosi> brainwash: what do you mean "not even aware of it"? https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10910
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10910 in General "Hide unused maximize button" [Minor,New]
<brainwash> ok, so I'm not aware of my own bug report then
<knome> hah.
<knome> well done
<ochosi> and yeah, afaik it wasn't applied
<ochosi> anyway, there is a load of bugreports wrt maximizing, tiling, setting correct flags etc
<ochosi> and not really anyone in sight who knows enough about this stuff to decide which patches to apply
<brainwash> ali1234 :)
<ochosi> and not really anyone in sight who knows enough about this stuff *and is willing* to decide which patches to apply
<brainwash> ali1234 knows best how broken xfwm is :D
<brainwash> but it's a dev release after all, so pushing experimental patches should be ok
<brainwash> and no one complained about it being broken in xubuntu 14.04
<Unit193> I've had to disable the compositor.
<knome> i don't think it's a huge problem to have the icon either
<knome> it's a very small visual annoyance at most.
<brainwash> yes, just cosmetic
<Unit193> ochosi: So which one are you targetting?  May as well ping now before I go, re lxpanel testing.
<knome> i never even realised that before somebody filed the bugreport
<knome> and i'm not the person who uses the least time looking at visual bugs ;)
<Unit193> ochosi: https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/ppa seems to be the best place, else you'll break daily builds.
<ochosi> Unit193: yeah, i guess you're right about that. so it's actually a packaging problem in the lxde panel?
<Unit193> ochosi: Yes, but still wory copying to test since Sean doesn't have lxpanel under his packageset.
<ochosi> wory?
<Unit193> Worth.
<ochosi> or worth?
<ochosi> ah
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> Unit193: i've sent the copy request, will take a few mins
<ochosi> then please ping the lxde folk about testing
<ochosi> lunchtime (for real this time)
<ochosi> bbl
<Unit193> Pinged their Elf y.
<ochosi> Unit193: just out of curiosity
<ochosi> what channel are those ppl hanging in?
<ochosi> i'm only in #lubuntu as there is no -devel
<knome> that's stupid BTW ;)
<knome> ochosi, you should've gone (for real)
<ochosi> and there's hardly interesting stuff going down in #lubuntu
<knome> now get out or i'll kick you :)
<ochosi> hehe
<Unit193> knome, ochosi: Right, except a -devel wouldn't even be used anyway.
<knome> no developers? :P
<Unit193> gilir.
<knome> at least they have plenty of people buzzing *around*
<knome> laguna, linx?
<Unit193> I randomly submit a branch, and there's artwork people (more than one), but not sure about anything else.
<bluesabre> knome: strings pushed, you'll have to wait for lp to sync
<Unit193> (Well testers, but that's in email and -quality.)
<knome> bluesabre, ta, will do
<knome> slickymasterWork, ^
<bluesabre> Gotta run, bbl
<knome> they seem to be horribly unorganized.
<knome> bluesabre, have fun
<Unit193> Eh, a little.  There's a QA list and -quality for those things, artwork is done in some voodoo fashion, but it's done as part of the artwork team, development/uploads is all basically gilir.
<slickymasterWork> got it knome 
 * elfy gets pinged on Elf too ... 
<elfy> ochosi: that tbird thing is design :| 
<ochosi> thought so
<elfy> looks pants ... 
<slickymasterWork> elfy, on that subject, I add the upstream bug report to https://bugs.launchpad.net/thunderbird/+bug/1347305
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1347305 in thunderbird (Ubuntu) "Address fields are grey when composing messages" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<elfy> slickymasterWork: I thought about that - then thought that the chances of anyone actually doing anything were close to nothing so didn't :)
<slickymasterWork> elfy: it won't hurt to 'throw the clay to the wall'. Who knows it might stick ;)
<elfy> :)
<knome> elfy, what TB thing?
<knome> oh, *that* thing
<knome> i wondered it about too, got a bit annoyed, then decided i'd learn to use it.
<knome> now i'm ok with it
<elfy> knome: yea - I just wanted to make sure it wasn't something *we'd* done this morning - no I know it's not I'm happy
<knome> elfy, hehe
<elfy> ochosi: not sure what's going on here - screen's blanking again for no apparent reason that I can see, I've done zilch to that since the other day
<elfy> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-210814-173447.php
<ochosi> maybe the desktop file is back because you opened lls again? :)
<ochosi> hm, i see, that generally looks good
<elfy> it wasn't prior to openin it
<ochosi> what does "xset q | grep timeout" say?
<elfy> timeout:  600    cycle:  600
<elfy> I had no problems with this since I blitzed that file
<ochosi> could you move the slider in xfpm back and forth?
<ochosi> i mean the blanking slider
<ochosi> so that it updates its setting
<elfy> obviously got that file back now
<ochosi> ah
<ochosi> hm
<ochosi> that explains it too
<elfy> not really 
<ochosi> i mean it doesn't explain why the file is back, but it explains the blanking
<ochosi> or why the power manager and the xserver are out of sync
<elfy> the file is back now that I've checked - the file wasn't there prior to looking and screenshotting
<elfy> when it was still blanking
<ochosi> i see
<ochosi> ok, could you change the slider of "blank after" as suggested and then run xset again?
<elfy> deleted file - sliding sliders - checking
<elfy> and xset is now showing 0 and 0 
<ochosi> mkay
<elfy> mmm
<ochosi> so xfpm is working
<ochosi> not sure what fiddles with the timeouts
<ochosi> you don't use xscreensaver by any chance? :)
<elfy> I'm right in the middle of sorting food prior to CC meeting - after that I'll see if I can reproduce
<ochosi> sure, i'll be off for the rest of the evening though
<elfy> nah - no screensavers here at all
<elfy> okey doke - I'll try and remember to give you any findings tomorrow then
<ochosi> ok, thanks
<elfy> ochosi: won't be at the next meeting I'm afraid
<brainwash> ochosi: can I or you mark bug 889394 as invalid now?
<ubottu> bug 889394 in xscreensaver (Ubuntu) "xscreensaver and xfce4-power-manager conflict" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/889394
<brainwash> according to your last comment upstream
<Unit193> elfy: Dangit man, was trying not to needlessly.  tasksel got updated too.
<elfy> woot
<elfy> Unit193: I guess we can move forward on that then - after beta 1
<elfy> Unit193: I guessed you'd tried not to ping me :p
<elfy> lots of guessing going on 
<elfy> gives us a week to tie up the testcases for it - or testcase if we just want to test install via one of the methods
<Unit193> Yeah, I'd say just the one method.
<elfy> I'd go for the tasksel method to test 
<Unit193> Also, I believe I'm going to RSVP to not be at the meeting. :D
<elfy> I'll be driving round in circles
<noskcaj-school> Unit193: bluesabre: I was talking to gilir about the xfpm plugin, he's going to make a -dev package for next cycle. I'll try and contact lxde-debian soon
<Unit193> noskcaj-school: I know what the problem is for this release and have a test package in xubuntu-staging.  Also contacted LStranger.
<noskcaj-school> ok then, i suppose i'll go back to doing school stuff
<Unit193> You can send a note anyway though.
<Unit193> (make sure I wasn't clear as mud and all, and you have information from gilir.)
<bluesabre> hey guys
<bluesabre> missed the freeze
<Unit193> Depends if the xfpm lxde plugin counts as a bugfix.
#xubuntu-devel 2014-08-22
<brainwash> I open the terminal and start to type before the actual prompt string is printed. This breaks the string somewhat by adding my typed chars in front of it.
<brainwash> Is this an actual bug or "you are doing it wrong"?
<ochosi> elfy: hm, does it still make sense to discuss the QA incentive programme idea at the meeting then? (i guess if you prep a document on that, we could still discuss it)
<knome> qa incentive?
<knome> bounties for testing? :)
<ochosi> pretty much, yeah
<knome> yeah, i wouldn't mind that
<ochosi> we established that testing is a bit boring, so motivating ppl isn't easy
<ochosi> since the xfce bug bounty programme seems to be doing fine without the (little) money we have, i wouldn't mind spending it on QA
<ochosi> e.g. xubuntu t-shirt for most active tester in the cycle
<knome> mmh
<ochosi> or i dunno, that's just a random thought
<knome> that's not a bad idea
<knome> i mean, it's relatively cheap for us and gets us a long way if at least 2 people start "competing"
<ochosi> would've preferred if elfy would've been there for the meeting to discuss it, but we can probably discuss it either way
<ochosi> when i suggested the idea, he seemed to like it
<ochosi> and we can just start by collecting ideas
<knome> mhm
 * elfy still does :p
<ochosi> btw, i'm away for the rest of today and tomorrow
<elfy> I'd propose stickers once a month or something, then t-shirt at cycle end for most prolific during the whole cycle
<elfy> something like that 
<ochosi> yeah, i think we should make a list of these proposals/ideas incl. what they cost
<elfy> ochosi: unfortunately unless a meeting during the day coincides with me not working I'll never be about
<ochosi> and then just decide on what makes most sense
<elfy> just so you know - Friday's I'm usually not working if you do want me there 
<ochosi> elfy: hm right, seems hard to find a time that works for everyone
<ochosi> yeah, i was considering a meeting later in the week, but then i felt maybe before b1 is a good idea
<knome> stickers isn't bad either
<knome> ochosi, thought before b1 is just useful for "developers", and/or other people who need to land $x
<knome> and maybe QA people.. :)
<ochosi> right, which is why i set the time so it would work for bluesabre ;)
<elfy> QA people don't really need a meeting *just* before :p
<elfy> and if I'm the only one that does anything with b1 there won't be a b final ;)
<knome> elfy, right, except if you are waiting for a fix to land ;)
<ochosi> well, in terms of gathering feedback from QA it's still useful i think
<ochosi> also to establish the road to b2
<elfy> @19/8 we had 52/580 64bit image tests done, 32bit is worse and package testing has in general been me testing for testcase and jjfrv8 doing one afterwards
<meetingology> elfy: Error: "19/8" is not a valid command.
<elfy> shutup meetingology 
<knome> haha
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> knome: btw, unless you wanna work on the accessibility version of greybird, i'll postpone this once again
<ochosi> i know i won't have time until UIF
<knome> yeah, please do
<knome> if i surprisingly get kicked out of my projects (or everything gets stalled) and i have a lot of motivation, it might happen... but yeah
<ochosi> also, please don't let the UIF approach too much for starting to work on the new wallpaper ;)
<knome> no no
<knome> not at all
<knome> :P
<knome> this is the cycle when i start working on the wallpaper WELL BEFORE THE UIF
<knome> like, in june...
<knome> well tbe, i have something from july
<knome> but it's still far from fit to release :)
<ochosi> then keep the fricking blueprint updated!
<knome> well
<ochosi> and set it to inprogress
<knome> it's actually more like TODO than INPROGRESS
<ochosi> also, for some reason there's no trello card for that
<knome> you should see the progress
<knome> (not)
<knome> let me add that now then
<ochosi> already done
<knome> boo
<knome> i just LOGGED IN to trello
<ochosi> just thought you deserved a little shout-out for being so whiney about this last time ;)
<knome> yes, that's fair
<elfy> lol
<ochosi> (but yeah, it was good that you were)
<knome> i really wish i had more time...
<knome> like 24 more hours per day
<ochosi> (at least i have it more on my radar again)
<knome> ugh.. i need coffee.
<elfy> knome: you can set a due date for the wallpaper on trello - then it'll show up on the team calendar so we can see how you're doing :)
<ochosi> mm, that'd be nice
<elfy> oh - we did have trello stuff on there at some point - seems to be missing now
<elfy> but setting a date does allow us to see it on the trello calendar
<ochosi> i dunno, iirc Unit193 handled that
<ochosi> i mean the trello -> team calendar integration
<elfy> yea - certainly wasn't elfy :p
<knome> obviously the due date should be UIF..
<ochosi> nah, at least two days before
<knome> aha
<ochosi> give bluesabre some time to upload
<knome> september 8 then
<ochosi> (just because we have an awesome uploader now doesn't mean we should drive him towards a heart-attack)
<knome> i hate to say this, but that's like not going to happen
 * knome hides under the table
<ochosi> the heart-attack? or sept 8?
<knome> i need to get back to work :|
<knome> sept 8..
<ochosi> seriously?
<knome> well, i'm swamped with work
<ochosi> i understand, but to the worst do an iteration of the 14.04 wall
<ochosi> just small changes
<knome> yeah, i know
<ochosi> ppl loved that wall
<ochosi> and ubuntu does it too (just changing tiny aspects)
<knome> ket's see what happens
<ochosi> so it'd make sense
<knome> hah.
<knome> anyway, i'm off to do some work
<ochosi> k, ttyl
<knome> be back in some time
<ochosi> gotta focus on work too
<ochosi> will be back on sunday
<knome> aha
<elfy> cya chaps 
<knome> then hf until that
<ochosi> you too
<ochosi> cya elfy (and all others)
<elfy> have fun 
<bluesabre> hey guys
<bluesabre> knome: yeah, in the spirit of ubuntu, just change the contrast in one corner and call it done ;)
<bluesabre> xubutrello: card 67
<xubutrello> There's no list called <card 67> on the board, bluesabre. Sorry.
<bluesabre> xubutrello: help
<brainwash> knome: can you please remove gnome-terminal and lxterminal from the affects list? The affected terminal emulators all depend on libvte, so I've reassigned the bug
<brainwash> bug 1237594
<ubottu> bug 1237594 in vte (Ubuntu) "The U+0001 control character is output in terminal" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1237594
<bluesabre> xubutrello: card 67 link
<xubutrello> https://trello.com/c/I9GzeyJ7/67-upower-0-99-transition-staging-at-https-launchpad-net-noskcaj-archive-upower-packages
<bluesabre> ^ Noskcaj, with FF yesterday, is this postponed for after 14.10?
<brainwash> thought that the upower transition was already done, but meh
<brainwash> xorg 1.16 will land after FF
<slickymasterWork> I can do that for you if you want brainwash 
<slickymasterWork> brainwash: re: bug 1237594 ^^
<ubottu> bug 1237594 in vte (Ubuntu) "The U+0001 control character is output in terminal" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1237594
<bluesabre> I mean, the code is there for most of xfce, but upower 0.99 is not
<brainwash> slickymasterWork: would be awesome
<bluesabre> in utopic
<knome> bluesabre, you should really get that bug team membership
<slickymasterWork> brainwash: done
<slickymasterWork> hey knome bluesabre 
<knome> hey
<bluesabre> knome, I know, on my todo list
<brainwash> slickymasterWork: thank you :)
<slickymasterWork> not only that knome, he should also get bugcontrol membership
<knome> yep.
<slickymasterWork> knome: do you have any idea on when will the new menulibre string get synchronized?
<slickymasterWork> s/string/strings
<knome> once there is a new release
<knome> or: ask bluesabre 
<slickymasterWork> bluesabre: ^^
<bluesabre> suppose I could push a strings update package to utopic this weekend
<bluesabre> going to get ready for work now... leave me a ping if you guys need anything done tonight
<knome> bluesabre, new wallpaper pls?:P
<brainwash> slickymasterWork: can you also please change the importance of this report to wishlist (both packages)? bug 1301056
<ubottu> bug 1301056 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Session name has "Session"" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1301056
<slickymasterWork> brainwash: done, on both packages
<brainwash> slickymasterWork: thanks :)
<slickymasterWork> np brainwash
<slickymasterWork> but I still think that you should apply for bug team membership
<brainwash> btw is apport still disabled in 14.10?
<brainwash> usually we get some crash reports during the time before final release
<brainwash> timeout
<slickymasterWork> brainwash: re:apport I believe so
<brainwash> waiting for some crash reports to flood in :)
<slickymasterWork> bmurray will have his hands full ;)
<slickymasterWork> s/bmurray/bdmurray
<slickymasterWork> lunch time. bbl ->
<brainwash> slickymaster: can you maybe point this bug reporter in the right direction? would be great if we could show him how to fix this easily
<brainwash> bug 1355018
<ubottu> bug 1355018 in mousepad (Ubuntu) "[typo, german translation] "Achtung, Sie arbeiten mit Administartorrechten und kÃ¶nnen Ihr System beschÃ¤digen" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1355018
<brainwash> sadly I'm not familiar with the translation process :/
<knome> i don't think there is an "easy" way, but all xfce translations are practically managed in transifex
<knome> getting the translation that is in transifex to land in xubuntu will take some time whatsoever (need releases)
<brainwash> right, I think that everyone can get involved and contribute translations, especially if the user is known to be regular bug reporter :)
<brainwash> I thought that transifex is an "easy" way to do it
<knome> they need to be approved to the german xfce translations team in transifex
<knome> it is relatively easy, but it's not like editing a wiki.
<knome> you need to log in, and need to be approved
<brainwash> I see, this makes sense
<knome> but after that, sure, it's easy
<brainwash> knome: what would be the appropriate importance for bug 1291606 ?
<ubottu> bug 1291606 in mousepad (Ubuntu) "Mousepad isn't localized in Dutch, although fully translated into Dutch on Launchpad" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1291606
<brainwash> is "high" really the right one?
<elfy> alberto again :)
<slickymasterWork> lol
<slickymasterWork> just wait for the emoticons in LP elfy :P
<elfy> lol
<brainwash> so, how important are translations?
<elfy> not at all to me :p
<brainwash> but for the xubuntu project
<slickymasterWork> they are important brainwash, at least for the apps we ship by default
<brainwash> if translations are missing, well, then you have to wait until they are available, right?
<slickymasterWork> yeaps
<elfy> A bug that has a moderate impact on a core application. 
<elfy> meium
<elfy> medium even
<slickymasterWork> the reporter claims that the translation is already made though
<brainwash> yes, I vote for 'medium' too
<slickymasterWork> I agree with elfy's assessment 
<brainwash> please change it :)
<elfy> I'm just reading the bug importance wiki
<slickymasterWork> okie dokie
<brainwash> copy pasta :>
<elfy> of course
<slickymasterWork> done
<elfy> better give the images a whirl - not done that for a day or so
 * slickymasterWork likes elfy's pro-activity 
<brainwash> slickymasterWork: thanks
<slickymasterWork> np brainwash 
<knome> brainwash, at most medium imo.
<brainwash> Noskcaj: any idea what could be broken here? bug 1314802
<ubottu> bug 1314802 in exo (Ubuntu) "Translations incomplete in amd64 14.04" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1314802
<brainwash> the bug reporter claims that the amd64 package is missing translations
<knome> explain me how "notebook tabs" are different from "tabs" ?
<knome> or, how should that be translated?
<brainwash> knome: me?
<knome> brainwash, if you feel qualified to answer, yes...
<ali1234> seems like notebook tabs means vertical tabs
<elfy> Unit193: no kernel modules with the mini.iso again ... 
<Unit193> How on earth...
<elfy> no idea - and it's been too long a day to worry much :p
<Unit193> Just did another upgrade too.
<knome> elfy, mmh
<Unit193> Hah, now it wants to ask for a password every time I switch to workspace one. :P
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, looking now
<elfy> Unit193: anyway, re -core I've more or less got the testcase sorted, just need to be sure the order, wording works so I can get it on the tracker system, balloons will deal with getting it usable for us 
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, I can confirm. This is "Fixed" in the utopic version (must have been from a rebuild), but then the amd64 version has a few that i386 doesn't
<Unit193> Noskcaj: Do you mean brainwash?
<Noskcaj> yes. :(
<Noskcaj> tab completion is hard
<brainwash> b<tab> :D
<Unit193> I use it too, yes. >_>
<brainwash> Noskcaj: thanks for commenting on the report :)
<Noskcaj> I'm running a rebuild in my ppa now
<Noskcaj> A rebuild has removed all the issues.
<Noskcaj> Where is the bug for the website being translatable? It relates to the exo bug
<Unit193> ...How does that even relate?
<Unit193> Project xubuntu-website, iirc.
<Unit193> (LP: #797600 if you didn't see.)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 797600 in Xubuntu Website "Enable translations for the Xubuntu website" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/797600
<Noskcaj> Unit193, The bug i'm looking at is a dupe of some non-english xubuntu issues, one of the ones listed is that a translated link goes to and english only website
<Unit193> Aha, I see!  A reference to it rather than direct link. gotcha.  That's not likely to get "fixed" soon anyway.
<Noskcaj> bug 1308533 is now the main bug. I'll look into an SRU when i get back from soccer. Hopefully someone, somewhere, is already working on thunderbird
<ubottu> bug 1308533 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Non-english live-cd: some programs are in English although their name is in Non-english, and vice-versa" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1308533
<brainwash> Noskcaj: oh... did you forget about bug 733563 ? :)
<ubottu> bug 733563 in xfce4-xkb-plugin (Ubuntu) "Can't change font for keyboard layout indicator" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/733563
<brainwash> the patch wasn't included due to FF (trusty)
<Noskcaj> brainwash, yes. And now it's the FF again.
<Unit193> Stupid FF... :D
<brainwash> yeah :/
<brainwash> bad luck
<Noskcaj> Is it worth an FFe? if so, i can get it made later today
<brainwash> don't think so
<Noskcaj> Hopefully i'll remember it for 15.04 then
<brainwash> :)
<Unit193> It'll be nice when 15.04 opens, yeah.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Once we hear back from Lubuntu, we looking to fix xfpm/lxpanel?
<bluesabre> yeah, I think that'd be best for them
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> we=you, of course! :---D
<bluesabre> oh wait, now its just me?
<bluesabre> tab complete
<bluesabre> brainwash: do it
<bluesabre> ;)
<bluesabre> I cheated, tab-complete filled me in
<bluesabre> :(
<Unit193> Heh, well I have the fixes, though I think rather than splitting a -dev out we'll just jam it in lxpanel like Debian does.  Next release will have -dev, better not to change stuff.
<Unit193> The xfpm dep could even be lxpanel-dev | lxpanel to fix it now and later (it'll fall back to lxpanel since it can't get -dev.)
<bluesabre> neat
#xubuntu-devel 2014-08-23
<Unit193> skellat: Have you by chance looked into apt-offline?
 * skellat has been house painting today but is checking packages.d.o real quick
<skellat> It is in our packageset, maintainer hasn't updated Debian-side, I'd say carry the delta *buntu-side and then that can flow upstream
<skellat> If bluesabre is willing to pound on the code
<Unit193> Doesn't have to, fixed in git.
<skellat> It would still be a delta until the maintainer updated the package in Debian if we updated it on our side
 * skellat wanders off to go look at the git tree and see about chasing down a maintainer
<Unit193> debfx is upstream and maintainer.
<skellat> See: https://packages.qa.debian.org/a/apt-offline.html
<skellat> rrs is listed as maintainer
<Unit193> Whoops, got my maintainers mixed up.
<Unit193> skellat: http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/apt-offline/apt-offline.git/commit/?id=debf1ea478ec05bbfea4005156c1652af69ebd80 isn't bad at all, FWIW.
<skellat> Unit193: Can we just cherry pick that fix for now?
<Unit193> bluesabre is the tech lead and Xubuntu dev, but I don't see why not.
<skellat> bluesabre: Unit193 just passed the buck
<skellat> Unit193: E-mailed the maintainer and BCC'd you on it
<Unit193> Cool, WFM.  Thanks.
<skellat> No, not work for you.  I'm in the hotseat and not you.
<Unit193> Hah, well you know what I meant, I think.
<bluesabre> let me know what I need to do
<Unit193> brainwash: Dowh, your freshplayer builds done be failin', right when I want to try it again too. :(
<brainwash> Unit193: :(
<brainwash> Noskcaj: bug 1339911 can be closed, right?
<ubottu> bug 1339911 in xfce4-clipman-plugin (Ubuntu) "[MRE] Please update xfce4-clipman-plugin to 1.2.6" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1339911
<Noskcaj> brainwash, no, why would it?
<brainwash> Noskcaj: see "Utopic (2:1.2.6-1): universe/x11 "
<Noskcaj> MRE = micro-release except = targeted at trusty
<brainwash> oh
<brainwash> how long does it take to actually land in trusty?
<brainwash> should be pushed to -proposed first, right?
<Noskcaj> brainwash, yeah. It's been ignored, so if you could bring some attention to it
<brainwash> I don't feel like bothering the sru team :/
<Noskcaj> We'll have to for the translation bug, so i'll mention it when i'm working on it
<Noskcaj> bug 1308533 is now an SRU
<ubottu> bug 1308533 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "[SRU] Non-english live-cd: some programs are in English although their name is in Non-english, and vice-versa" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1308533
<Noskcaj> Are there any other packages that could be MREed?
<brainwash> Noskcaj: maybe xfdesktop 4.11.7
<brainwash> see http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfdesktop/tree/NEWS
<brainwash> the new point release also adds some small tweaks (features?)
<brainwash> like "Add a move to trash menu option"
<brainwash> so I'm not sure if it qualifies for MRE
<bluesabre> ok guys, beta freeze monday... I'll be uploading packages through Sunday night. If it needs a FFe, please go ahead and write it up in advance :)
<bluesabre> ochosi: let me know when you think elementary-xfce git is release ready
 * bluesabre starts his morning with anime
<bluesabre> elfy: let me know if/when you're around
<bluesabre> anybody else see this when using the daily iso in virtualbox... http://imgur.com/VJq3BNu
<bluesabre> suppose this is a good excuse to take gnome-boxes for a spin
<bluesabre> ochosi: utopic, CSD with compositor: http://imgur.com/9rAtRdj and without: http://imgur.com/JHNyHXB
<bluesabre> assuming you hadn't already checked it out
<elfy> bluesabre: vbox - known issue I think - tty1 then tty7 and you'll be good to go 
<bluesabre> or vmware player it seems
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> elfy, you were having issues with light-locker-settings in utopic?
<elfy> bluesabre: I was - it kept blanking the screen - had to blitz the autostart file in config, seems to be ok now, reusing lls and it creating a new autostart isn't causing issues
<bluesabre> ok, which autostart file had to be killed?
<bluesabre> screensaver?
<elfy> lls
<elfy> light-locker 
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> can you pastebin your current light-locker.desktop file?
<elfy> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8122878/
<elfy> but that's not causing an issue :)
<bluesabre> right
<bluesabre> probably don't have the trouble one though, right?
<elfy> not got the one that was I'm afraid 
<elfy> no - it'd been sitting in trash but I cleared it this morning
<bluesabre> D:
<elfy> all I can say is the old one looked exactly the same as ^^ except the NoDisplay=true was missing
<elfy> the Exce= line was the same
<elfy> was odd - everything was set right but xset q | grep timeout was 600 regardless 
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> ok
<bluesabre> I think I know the issue
<elfy> currently the weather is fine with utopic all across the board for me :p
<elfy> ok - cool
<elfy> ochosi did say something about old ll desktop file after upgrade iirc 
<bluesabre> when we detect a screensaver manager, we kill the screensaver autostart file (which sets xset, etc)
<bluesabre> but we don't try to restore any default settings
<elfy> ok, I can understand that :)
<bluesabre> not entirely sure how to go about that, other than you need to log out once after using the new light-locker-settings
<bluesabre> once that screensaver autostart file is gone, won't be an issue any longer
<elfy> yep - that agrees with what I was seeing, 10 minute blanking till I removed the file
<bluesabre> ok
<bluesabre> we should also create a default light-locker autostart file that uses the same settings that we create with light-locker-settings
<bluesabre> otherwise, the default is light-locker with no args
 * bluesabre is just thinking out loud to see if anybody disagrees
 * elfy would agree with the logic in that 
<bluesabre> login screen panel config needs updated for lightdm-gtk-greeter 1.9... we now have a bit more flexibility with arrangement.  Did some sample configs, http://imgur.com/a/aSj6W#0
<bluesabre> heading out for a while now, bbl
<brainwash> bluesabre: any idea if we can fix bug 1050012 ? currently the xfce4 package has gtk3-engines-xfce on the Suggests list
<ubottu> bug 1050012 in xfce4 (Ubuntu) "Stock Xfce does not have a default GTK 3 theme" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1050012
<brainwash> the bug is marked as wishlist, but I'm not sure if we can actually do anything to improve stuff
<brainwash> other than moving gtk3-engines-xfce to Recommends
<elfy> !team | http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-230814-220012.php
<Unit193> Another satisfied customer.
<brainwash> like ubuntu before unity... mmh, I guess he will like the ubuntu mate spin :>
<Unit193> That's what I was thinking, actually. ;P
<brainwash> ali1234: any idea what's going on here bug 1087242 ?
<ubottu> bug 1087242 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "XFWM4 not disabling the compositor effects on some fullscreen apps" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1087242
<ali1234> i could have a guess
<ali1234> there are different types of fullscreen
<ali1234> there's true fullscreen, which is like changing screen mode. SDL 1.2 does this, and it turns off external monitors. it is really annoying
<ali1234> so now most new games use a different technique
<ali1234> they open a normal window the same size as the primary monitor, with no decorations
<ali1234> xfwm can't detect this type of window, so it still gets composited
<ali1234> this is a total guess though, i would have to check the source to find out
<ali1234> we could perhaps add some extra detection rules if this is what is happening, but it might behave strangely
<Noskcaj> I'm not sure where the issue is, but dota 2 (and many other games) require custom launch options to work in xfce
<ali1234> i've played dota 2 and it worked fine
<ali1234> i do use nvidia though
<Noskcaj> Otherwise you cannot alt-tab or click on popups
<ali1234> everything works fine with nvidia, even with compositing enabled
<Noskcaj> ali1234, strange, i have to have -nomousegrab on
<Noskcaj> and apparently a lot of other people
<Noskcaj> also, add me on dota
<ali1234> i played it once, never again :)
<ali1234> didn't like it
<Noskcaj> 600 hours here
<ali1234> not my thing, i prefer single player games
<Noskcaj> shame.
 * Noskcaj leaves to get food
<brainwash> ali1234: did you see my message?
<ali1234> about the bug? yes
<brainwash> and did you give some answer while I was timing out? :)
<ali1234> yes :)
<ali1234> the problem is probably fake-fullscreen mode
<ali1234> not a real fullscreen window, just a window with no decorations the same size as the monitor
<ali1234> it's popular now because it works better
<ali1234> but the window manager can't detect it
<brainwash> ah, I'm familiar with that
<ali1234> just a guess though
<brainwash> makes sense
<brainwash> want to add this information to the report?
<ali1234> i'd prefer to confirm by checking the source code first
<ali1234> but i'm a bit busy at the moment
<brainwash> no need to hurry
<ali1234> subscribe me to the bug please
<ali1234> otherwise i'll forget
<brainwash> done
<ali1234> cheers
<brainwash> it's an interesting bug report after all
<brainwash> which had been ignored all the time
#xubuntu-devel 2014-08-24
<ochosi> elfy, bluesabre: i'm pretty sure i asked elfy to kill the screensaver autostart file, not the one for ll
<elfy> my mistake - though I've never had a screensaver autostart file in config at all
<elfy> however - prior to removing the ll desktop file I had blanking at 10 minutes :)
<elfy> ochosi: ^^ - all that aside, as long as we don't see the same issues from utopic when someone either installs or upgrades to it - whatever might go on with this install here is probably not that important in the scheme of things
<ochosi> strange, that other file doesn't interact with the screensaver at all
<elfy> yea - understood, but that's what I had :)
<ochosi> true that, would still be an extremely annoying bug to have/ship
<ochosi> so i'd rather make sure we don't see that
<ochosi> the default in xfpm is 10 minutes by the way
<ochosi> we can configure that now in x-d-s if ppl think it's too short
<elfy> well most of the bugs re 10 minutes I notice are "Why does the screen blank when I'm watching a video" so we'd need to set it to 180 minutes or something :p
<elfy> I agree that it would be an annoying bug to ship 
<elfy> this is really a personal preference I guess, I'd set it to never and then let people choose what they want
<brainwash> no auto lock?
<elfy> what?
<brainwash> no automatic screen locking by default
<elfy> <elfy> this is really a personal preference I guess
<brainwash> i read that part
<elfy> I have no need for it nor screen blanking :)
<brainwash> but can we ship a system without auto lock (default configuration)?
<ochosi> elfy: that was a bug in xdg-screensaver/xdg-utils that i already fixed for 14.04.1
<ochosi> so it shouldn't be a problem anymore in U
<elfy> brainwash: oic - it's an idea, sorry :)
<elfy> ochosi: okey doke
<elfy> I would think that setting it much longer would be worse - someone is more likely to be in the middle of something and having a rest 
<elfy> all in all - I'd have thought 10 was ok
<ochosi> maybe bumping it to 15mins wouldn't hurt
<elfy> I'm pretty much +whatever everyone else thinks on this :)
<ochosi> 15mins blank -> 20mins dpms suspend -> 30mins dpms off (or something)
<elfy> perhaps talk it over in meeting, you've got my +whatever if you decide
<elfy> I can't get up a terrible lot of enthusiasm for that discussion - whatever we do as default is not going to be what I use here unless we set it to never across the board
<elfy> ochosi: and won't making them longer have more impact on someone using a laptop?
<ochosi> we can actually set different timeouts for being on battery and being on ac
<elfy> true
<brainwash> ochosi: there is a pending branch for lls which is linked to a bug report for 14.04
<brainwash> https://code.launchpad.net/~regulus-kean/light-locker-settings/bug-1306917/+merge/227774
<brainwash> please take a look at it :)
<bluesabre> morning folks
<brainwash> knome: bug 1267442 was already marked as fix released, then it got re-opened on your request.. now it's marked as incomplete
<ubottu> bug 1267442 in nvidia-prime (Ubuntu) "Install nvidia-331 on X/K/Lubuntu results in unbootable machine" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1267442
<bluesabre> brainwash: re that bug, we can update the package recommends to gtk3-engines-xfce | shimmer-themes
<bluesabre> er
<bluesabre> not that bug
<bluesabre> the other one
<brainwash> bluesabre: hi :D
<bluesabre> nvidia-prime works for me
<brainwash> bluesabre: ok, adding them to Recommends shouldn't break anything I guess
<bluesabre> nope, and it will pull the themes package in for a normal user installing
<brainwash> do we only change it for ubuntu or should the change be forwarded to debian?
<bluesabre> oh wait
<bluesabre> hm
<bluesabre> what does xfce do by default when there isn't a default config
<bluesabre> I'll take a look at this later/check out debian
<brainwash> ok
<elfy> fwiw - not seen that bug since
<brainwash> the nvidia one?
<elfy> brainwash: yea
<bluesabre> so, proposed light-locker defaults...
<ochosi> bluesabre: so, as i was just sayin... i think brainwash's suggestion of not auto-locking by default makes sense
<bluesabre> light-locker enabled, do not autolock, but do (maybe?) lock on suspend?
<elfy> I'd lock on suspend
<ochosi> hm yeah, the first definitely, the third one also sounds good
<ochosi> the first two i meant
<ochosi> bluesabre: you said you had an issue with suspending and blacck screen too in utopic that was related to dpms?
<bluesabre> yeah, except it was the actual lock screen going dark and not coming back
<ochosi> the greeter you mean
<bluesabre> I could type my password in and login, then all would be well
<bluesabre> yes
<ochosi> odd, so that could mean that it switches ofo dpms wise after a while
<ochosi> which is normal i think
<bluesabre> yeah
<ochosi> just the default dpms settings of the xserver
<ochosi> but it not coming back is bad
<ochosi> maybe we should pro-actively handle dpms in the greeter then
<bluesabre> It might have been some X issues early in the cycle
<ochosi> hm true
<ochosi> so no reproducing it anymore?
<bluesabre> haven't tried lately, disabled autolock ;)
<ochosi> i see :)
<bluesabre> btw, presentation mode with xfpm is awesome
<ochosi> oddly this always worked for me, and i've had multiple machines (with different graphics drivers) sitting at the lockscreen for a while
<ochosi> great, good to hear .)
<ochosi> yeah, presentation mode basically means no need for caffeine anymore
<bluesabre> I'll reenable shortly
<bluesabre> and then I wondered about panel default
<ochosi> the icon theme is quite release-ready
<bluesabre> http://imgur.com/a/aSj6W#0
<ochosi> sergio wanted to add a few more icons, but nothing critical
<ochosi> and he hasn't been around much lately
<bluesabre> with greeter 1.9, the config we have loses hostname and the clock
<bluesabre> but thats all labeled in the screenshots
<ochosi> centered clock looks best im
<ochosi> imo
<bluesabre> yeah, but its no longer truly centered
<ochosi> yeah, i noticed
<bluesabre> its between left and right, like using xfpanel
<bluesabre> but yeah, I can make it appear centered again and we can discuss this another time as well
<ochosi> i guess the alternative is clock, power on the right
<ochosi> but if we go for that, i'd not make the clock font bold
<ochosi> or at least i'd try that
<bluesabre> yeah, currently fonts are hard-coded to bold I think
<ochosi> ah
<ochosi> ok
<bluesabre> going to fix/verify that
<ochosi> guess the theme could override it
<bluesabre> right
<ochosi> but yeah, the layout looks ok
<brainwash> do people need to manually fix the greeter panel items after upgrading to 14.10?
<bluesabre> brainwash: for now... going to fix with the next release
<bluesabre> (1.9.1)
<brainwash> nice
<bluesabre> not velociraptor
<ochosi> bluesabre: if you want, i can do an icon-theme release tomorrow or on tuesday
<bluesabre> ochosi: icon-theme?
<ochosi> i think you asked me about the readyness of elemenatary-xfce somewhere in the backlog
<ochosi> err readiness
<bluesabre> that would probably be fine... beta freeze is tomorrow though ;)
<bluesabre> and freezes happen while I'm at work still
<ochosi> ah true
<ochosi> ok, today/tonight then
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> tomorrow morning would also be acceptable for me
<ochosi> problem is with the bandwidth i have here i can't referesh xubuntu-artworkj
<bluesabre> right
<ochosi> if you want, you could do that (it's just a simple "./debian/rules update-elementary-icons")
<bluesabre> I'll leave it for you ;)
<ochosi> the good thing is that we're not really bound to releases with xubuntu-artwork
<bluesabre> just to confirm about panel layout, going with "centered" clock for now, and then it can be further discussed at the mtg?
<ochosi> sure
<ochosi> sounds good
<bluesabre> ochosi: have you tested the monitor=#cursor option for the greeter?
<ochosi> bluesabre: yup, when it was still in its own branch
<ochosi> n ot yet in 1.9
<ochosi> it worked really great
<ochosi> imo we should set the same default behavior as unity-greeter, i.e. extended desktop and #cursor
<ochosi> but i guess extended desktop needs work on the xrandr front
<bluesabre> yeah
<ochosi> anything else you wanted to discuss?
<bluesabre> I think that's mainly it for pre-beta freeze
<ochosi> okeydokey
<ochosi> i'll ping you when the icon theme is released and xubuntu-artwork is updated
<bluesabre> actually
<bluesabre> # screensaver-timeout = Timeout (in seconds) until the screen blanks when the greeter is called as lockscreen
<bluesabre> greeter.conf
<bluesabre> ochosi ^
<elfy> I'm guessing that the first beta will be tomorrow PM sometime, but I've heard nothing from -release yet- could even be tuesday as last time, stgraber is dealing this time
<ochosi> bluesabre: yep, what about it?
<bluesabre> do we want to give that a value?
<bluesabre> like, 30 seconds?
<ochosi> ah right
<ochosi> i guess that's a bit brief
<ochosi> maybe a minute
<bluesabre> eh, nvm, seems broken now
<ochosi> oh awesome :/
<ochosi> bluesabre: so i pulled the icons from git to xubuntu-artwork and bumped the changelog, so 14.10.1 of xubuntu-artwork should be ready for upload to b1
<Unit193> forestpiskie: Does utopic seem to just overall lag more to you?
<ochosi> Unit193: has there been any movement wrt testing -core lately?
<Unit193> Uh, right.  So tasksel is up, all we need to do now is review the testcase/send it.
<Unit193>  elfy> Unit193: anyway, re -core I've more or less got the testcase sorted, just need to be sure the order, wording works so I can get it on the 
<Unit193>                    tracker system, balloons will deal with getting it usable for us 
<Unit193> Wow, that worked well.
<ochosi> ok, good to know
<ochosi> keep me in the loop wrt that pls
<ochosi> (now that testing can finally commence :))
<Unit193> Want to try running the testcase?  elfy was having issues as the mini.iso didn't like him.
<Unit193> http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-core
<ochosi> i can try to do that on tuesday, maybe prior to the meeting
<ochosi> now i gotta go to sleep
<knome> nighty ochosi 
<ochosi> just stopped by to get the icons updated for b1
<Unit193> G'night.
<ochosi> nighty everyone
#xubuntu-devel 2015-08-17
<bluesabre> ochosi: that looks much better, thanks!
<ochosi> morning flocculant 
<flocculant> morning ochosi 
<ochosi> in case you haven't been pinged about that, bluesabre is working on some catfish improvements we'd like to get into wily
<flocculant> I've seen the chat :)
<flocculant> and I guessed the rest :p
<ochosi> those changes aren't under the hood as far as i can see, so no regression potential
<ochosi> but you can still check it out if you want
<flocculant> ok
<flocculant> always best I think
<ochosi> it's here: https://code.launchpad.net/~catfish-search/catfish-search/gtk316-csd
<ochosi> basically you have to bzr branch it, then apt-get build-dep it, and then ./configure && make && sudo make install
<flocculant> ta - I'll grab that later today 
<ochosi> note that some things in the sidebar aren't ready yet
<ochosi> and ideally you'll have greybird from the daily PPA
<flocculant> ok
<ochosi> otherwise some menuitems look funky :)
<flocculant> yea - have that 
<ochosi> alrighty, and if you see slicky, feel free to remind him about the meeting (i won't be around during the day), would be good to have one around FF
<ochosi> (pinged him last night, but i think he sometimes signs on from webirc)
<flocculant> yea - iirc he's on vacation 
<ochosi> oh ok
<ochosi> in that case we should probably skip him in the meeting list
<ochosi> humm, i guess pleia2 is also travelling
<ochosi> after those two it'd be your turn â wanna jump in and schedule one?
<flocculant> ok - I'll schedule today for the end of the week
<ochosi> thanks a bunch!
<flocculant> actually works out ok - next week I'm off till Friday
<flocculant> and Beta 1 ... 
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> anyhow, not sure there are important decisions creeping up, but around FF and B1 it's always good to schedule a meeting
<flocculant> I'll try for a time all the release team are available 
<ochosi> okay
<flocculant> so I'm ok all day - if you and bluesabre can tell me the best time on Friday 
<flocculant> if possible
<ochosi> i guess for bluesabre it's around 10-11UTC or from 22UTC
 * ochosi out
<flocculant> bluesabre: ping me with an exact time for friday - if you want to - do the www.timeanddate.com thing and I'll use that 
<flocculant> for 21st August
<bluesabre> flocculant: 10-11UTC would be guaranteed I could make it
<pleia2> knome: thanks for replying to that email, I'm still not sure what they want
<pleia2> ochosi: yeah, not really "home" properly until thursday morning, then I'm off again on august 28th for another week
<knome> pleia2, no problem
<bluesabre> flocculant: for catfish, at this point, the only thing that is not working (to my knowledge) is the custom date range... everything else should be functional
<bluesabre> oh, and it dies if the search comes across a psd file... that seems to be a regression in gtk, but I'll try to work around that
<knome> :D :D
<knome> so catfish isn't very useful for me atm
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> gdk-pixbuf-error-quark: Couldn't recognize the image file format for file '/home/bluesabre/watermarktest.psd' (3)
<bluesabre> /usr/local/bin/catfish: line 2: 22497 Segmentation fault      (core dumped) python3 /usr/local/share/catfish/bin/catfish.py "$@"
<bluesabre> that's what happens
<bluesabre> "what is this, oh crap! *die*"
<knome> heh, yeah...
<knome> i'd understand if it was software that tried to SHOW the file..
<bluesabre> catfish creates thumbnails as it searchs (for the preview view), so that's probably what it is
<knome> right..
<knome> thumbnails for many of my PDFs wouldn't be too useful
<knome> that's what filenames are
<knome> +for
<bluesabre> it only thumbnails images
<bluesabre> image/* mimetypes
<knome> client_flyer_hxw_2015_cmyk.psd
<knome> or sth
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> should be an easy fix
<knome> tells a lot more than a small preview of that ^
<bluesabre> just gotta dig around the code :)
<bluesabre> but, its too early now, back to bed for me
<bluesabre> bbl
<knome> sleep tight
<slickymasterWork> knome, I noticed that krytarik made a -docs MP
<slickymasterWork> did you review it?
<knome> yes and no
<knome> it looks fine to me
<slickymasterWork> 'yes and no'. any concerns?
<knome> not really
<knome> maybe i should recheck it
<knome> the "no" part is that i don't understand Standards-Version :P
<knome> but i'm sure it's fine
<slickymasterWork> ok, will you deal with it then? or do you want me to?
<knome> i'm about to merge it
<slickymasterWork> ok, thanks
<knome> done
<slickymasterWork> Ã±either Dylan or StÃ©phane, answer the ubiquity mail 
<slickymasterWork> thanks
<knome> well, pushing it now
<knome> yeah... :/
<knome> i'm wondering if we should take it to the TB or sth
<slickymasterWork> what's TB?
<knome> otoh, i'd really like their (dylan+stephane) opinion on it more than anybody elses
<knome> technical board
<slickymasterWork> I'll resend it today. it might be laying around their inboxes, forgotten  
<knome> yep
<knome> or in trash...
<knome> (not meaning they don't care, but if they use email the same way i do...)
<flocculant> bluesabre: ok - set for 10:00UTC Friday
<flocculant> bluesabre: the catfish appeared to want me to install python-pexpect
<flocculant> mmm - not sure this catfish is what I'm expecting then ... 
<knome> flocculant, slickymasterWork: what's your stance about the poll in the installer slideshow?
<knome> that work item seems to be stale, and nobody has picked it up
<knome> after thinking about it myself, i'm not too excited about it atm
<flocculant> well
<flocculant> last poll done by team is stuck in the doldrums - so not seeing any point in another one
<knome> yes, we should process that one too
<flocculant> yep
<knome> http://tracker.xubuntu.org/#tab-calendar
<knome> for those who are interested
<flocculant> knome: I hope that is some odd timezone ... 
<knome> utc
<knome> hmm
<flocculant> not doing a meeting at 7am ever 
<knome> oops.
<flocculant> :p
<knome> my bad, fixed
<flocculant> I did need to triple check 
<flocculant> knome: also - useful to not need extra bookmark :)
<knome> figured
<knome> landed some visual updates for the tracker
<flocculant> not an ellipse amongst them - so I can see it 
<knome> ;)
<knome> the burndown tells me there isn't too much time before beta 1
<flocculant> indeed 
<flocculant> burndown tells me people keep adding stuff :)
<knome> that was me
<knome> i basically split one work item to two
<knome> because the other half got done today
<knome> the good thing is that now the other half is a bitesize item
<flocculant> I meant more generally 
<knome> heh, yeah
<knome> the thing is that we really began using the blueprints for tracking after the old tracker was dead for a week+
<knome> that is, after the gap in the burndown
<knome> hope next cycle is smoother than ever regarding that
<knome> activating the new cycle in this tracker is just adding a row in a DB too
<knome> and no need to get the blueprints approved
<flocculant> oh awesome :)
<knome> and tbe, we can even start tracking before the cycle starts
<knome> then simply switch to the new cycle when it has started
<flocculant> possibly a useful thing 
<knome> yes and no
<knome> no because there likely isn't much to track :P
<knome> and also because i don't think we want to show pre-cycle data
<knome> but... yeah, the transition is going to be easy nonetheless
<flocculant> yep 
<flocculant> biab
<knome> hf, i might be gone when you get back
<slickymasterWork> damn flocculant, another meeting I won't be able to attend :P
<slickymasterWork> I'm leaving to Lisbon Wednesday evening (work related) and will just return Sunday night 
<slickymasterWork> I agree with you both, regarding the poll
<slickymasterWork> flocculant knome ^^^
<flocculant> slickymasterWork: sorry and all that 
<knome> i dropped the item
<knome> and i'm thinking whether we should just drop the wiki data mining, since the meetings are visible on the calendar page
<flocculant> I think I'll be dropping automated package testing after this cycle
<knome> isn't there some movement regarding that during this cycle?
<flocculant> that's just written down - then marked as postponed
<knome> the jenkins instance for flavors or sht
<knome> *sth
<flocculant> knome: no - they've been looking at jenkins and image smoketests
<flocculant> different things
<knome> aha
<knome> but isn't smoketests automatic too?
<knome> i mean, it's part of the image
<knome> boy, bad wording
<flocculant> not currently
<knome> right...
<knome> would it be with the jenkins instance?
<flocculant> yes
<knome> mhm
<flocculant> but - they are different things :)
<knome> sure
<knome> what ELSE automatic testing are we looking at then?
<knome> for packages?
<flocculant> yea 
<knome> right
<flocculant> but gtk2/3 issue with that always
<slickymasterWork> give a few minutes guys
<flocculant> and even if we make them work - that doesn't mean there would be anywhere canonical to do them
<slickymasterWork> headquarters on the phone.... nagging 
<flocculant> so while gtk2/3 - not really a point in even thinking about that
<flocculant> slickymasterWork: didn't know you were married :p
<flocculant> not sure there is much point in "Exploratory testing information to testers via ML" this late in cycle either
<flocculant> we might be better served me doing a full-on "QA articles for xubuntu.org" about that whole thing between now and xx 
<knome> mhm, maybe
<knome> and for that work item, it would be more useful if it was split into several items clearly pinpointing the subject of the articles
<flocculant> or blog is mailed to list for testers
<flocculant> knome: yea for sure - except no telling what's likely until it happens
<knome> we have a transition in the works - to make cycle tags their own taxonomy - after that, using tags will be much clearer
<knome> in the sense that they actually work as tags
<flocculant> right
<knome> i say this because then we can create all kinds of custom "searches" for people
<flocculant> sort of seen those discussion in here off and on
<knome> not just tag with "QA" but something more specific
<knome> yep
<knome> it's basically done, now i need to finalize that and some other stuff, and let IS push that to production
<flocculant> nice
<knome_tests> shiny, this works too
<flocculant> is it like knome_tests polish? 
<knome> huh?
<knome> :)
<knome> see the tracker
<flocculant> :)
<knome> going to improve the discussion tab with this stuff...
<knome> hozzah
<knome> you can even change the tab
<knome> and come back
<tracker1> :)
<knome> maybe slimy likes that feature
<knome> one browser tab at work for all xubuntu stuff
<flocculant> :)
<knome> i'll improve/merge that later
<knome> i'll likely drop the heading for that tab, and do some optimizations
<knome> like make sure there is no double scrollbars by making sure the iframe fits the browser window
<knome> maybe even go as far as add a stylesheet for the document inside the iframe - to change the font size for the webchat
<knome> another test...
<knome> nice
<flocculant> I knew I would come across unreadable captchas
<knome> :D
<knome> there are some for sure
<flocculant> yea
<flocculant> the pics of numbers are ok
<knome> anyway, we have friends coming over (again)
<flocculant> the recopied copy of a copied copy word ones are awful :D
<flocculant> okey doke - cya :)
<knome> will be back later - have fun meanwhile :)
<slickymasterWork> flocculant, my bosses, apparently, think that I ought to be married with job, at least :P
<flocculant> :)
<slickymasterWork> some return after two weeks vacation :P
<flocculant> heh
<flocculant> bluesabre: is there anything that we have in PPA which would be useful to 
<flocculant> A - get testers looking at?
<flocculant> B - get testers to add to beta1 next week? 
<flocculant> trying to get all my cards in a row so I can set them up as I am away from mid morning Monday to late Thursday next week
<flocculant> which isn't best timing 
<flocculant> that's pretty damn quick :D
<ochosi> hey jjfrv8 
<ochosi> sorry haven't really had time yet to review the thunar docs
<ochosi> been quite busy lately on the personal level
<jjfrv8> ochosi, no worries
<Unit193> Oh good!  I was still wondering what I got out of it! :---D
<Unit193> dkessel, krytarik: Congrats.
<Unit193> ochosi: Oh, and +1 to krytarik. :P
<krytarik> Thanks! :D
<ochosi> Unit193: yeah, i forgot to mention: if your name is Unit193 you get nothing... sorry!
<ochosi> krytarik: conga-rats!
<krytarik> :)
<ochosi> dkessel: conga-rats to you too!
<Unit193> Ooooh!
<knome> hey everybody!
<knome> just one thing i want to tell you
<knome> for background information, i'm working as a beta tester for a closed-source website
<knome> i'm so happy we have this open communication, and that it works so well
<knome> thanks, we're fantastic!
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> and yay, +1
<ochosi> time to head to bed, night everyone!
<knome> nighty ochosi 
<knome> well, simon, really!
<knome> :)
<bluesabre> hey pasi
<bluesabre> good teamwork around here
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> hey sean
<bluesabre> how's it going?
<knome> not too bad
<knome> just tweaked the tracker a bit more
<bluesabre> :)
<knome> now calendar/irc iframes are only loaded when needed
<knome> and the irc frame is squeezed to fit the window
<bluesabre> looks pretty
<bluesabre> this is so much nicer than crawling blueprints
<knome> isn't it ;)
<krytarik> knome: "[xubuntu-doc] Link to the PDF files from the documentation: INPROGRESS" - are you still planning to try an alternative approach there, or should we just assign it to me, and set it to "DONE"?
<knome> we can assign it to you and get "something" done
<knome> talk with slickyma1ter about what he wants regarding that, and i'll be fine with what you come up with
<knome> and thanks for taking care :)
<krytarik> Well, it *is* already done.
<krytarik> knome: More specifically, you introduced it here: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/xubuntu-docs/wily/revision/405#scripts/pdf-create.sh
<knome> oh, hah, right
<knome> let me see that
#xubuntu-devel 2015-08-18
<bluesabre> ochosi: http://i.imgur.com/mQjlDqQ.png ?
<bluesabre> ochosi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9Bhw8UmNG4&feature=youtu.be
<bluesabre> ochosi: be sure to pull when you get a chance and let me know what you think of the current status :)
<bluesabre> hopefully I can catch flocculant in the morning
<bluesabre> night all
<bluesabre> hey flocculant 
<flocculant> morning bluesabre :)
<bluesabre> re the PPA questions...
<flocculant> yep
<bluesabre> nothing just yet
<bluesabre> but I will have a new catfish and menulibre in there by thursday
<flocculant> ok :)
<bluesabre> catfish (and maybe menulibre) will have UI changes
<bluesabre> also working on performance improvements in catfish now
<bluesabre> so, some possibility for regressions, but hopefully not
<flocculant> nice 
<flocculant> I'll be able to get mail to testers for all that sorted by the weekend then
<flocculant> bluesabre: thanks :)
<bluesabre> flocculant: np
<bluesabre> have a good morning, I'm going to bed
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> bluesabre: G'nighty.
<flocculant> night :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: when you awake - I don't appear to be seeing the right catfish ... http://i.imgur.com/sikWShF.png
<Unit193> That's the new UI, headerbars...
<flocculant> expected to see http://i.imgur.com/mQjlDqQ.png
<ochosi> bluesabre: that is *so* much nicer!
<ochosi> bluesabre: only tweak would be to add some sort of spinner to the "searching" screen, ideally make the 3 dots after "Searching" dis/appear one after the other
<ochosi> bluesabre: not sure that is too custom for gtk though, would basically mean updating the label from "Searching ." to "Searching .." "Searching ..." and back to "Searching ." in a loop
<knome> i tweeted https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2015-August/010863.html, somebody else could do the other outlets
<slickymasterWork> ochosi or pleia2, one of you admin g+, I think ^^
<knome> bluesabre, i never really do this, but now i did; i was listening to a music file with parole, then double-clicked a video to check something in it - and it opened in the same parole window
<knome> bluesabre, is there a setting to not do this, eg. always open a new window?
<knome> flocculant, looks like we're chasing a mousetail we can't catch with the qa incentive thread - again
<slickymasterWork> knome, you've got mail :P
<knome> mhm
<bluesabre> ochosi: in case we're still interested in xfpanel-switch this cycle, can you find some folks (motu/core-dev) to take a look at it
<bluesabre> I've subbed micahg, and now Logan (sorry guys) :)
<knome> bluesabre, oh, one more feature request... :P
<knome> bluesabre, when playing a audio file with no metadata, could the filename be visible somewhere else than the playlist?
<bluesabre> knome: in the meantime, you can alias parole=parole -i
<bluesabre> knome: that sounds reasonable
<bluesabre> want to file a bug? :)
<knome> sure can
<bluesabre> otherwise I'll forget about it
<knome> bugzilla, right?
<knome> or do you prefer LP
<knome> bluesabre, i have both reporting pages open, just tell me which one...
<knome> sigh... :)
<bluesabre> knome: either
<bluesabre> bz might be better
<knome> ok
<knome> then it be so
<bluesabre> thanks
<knome> xfce #12149
<knome> xfce 12149
<knome> humm
<knome> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12149
<slickymasterWork> someone wake up the bot
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 12149 in General "Show audio file name when no metadata is available" [Enhancement,New]
<bluesabre> flocculant: did you bzr pull; ./configure; make; sudo make install; /usr/local/bin/catfish
<bluesabre> ?
<bluesabre> knome: thanks
<knome> no
<knome> problem
<knome> bluesabre
<knome> :P
<bluesabre> gotta run, bbl
<bluesabre> catfish release likely for tonight
<knome> hf
<bluesabre> seeya
<flocculant> knome: ?
<knome> flocculant, not much useful feedback...
<flocculant> not remembering what incentive thing you're talking about 
<knome> the latest qa ml thread
<knome> where you reminded me to mail
<flocculant> oh yea 
<flocculant> really should have started that anew with a sensible title ... 
<knome> it isn't too late
<knome> :P
<flocculant> ha
<flocculant> bluesabre: yes I did 
<bluesabre> flocculant: bizarre
<flocculant> yep
<flocculant> but that's nothing new :p
<flocculant> also have to reboot at wall after lock screen atm :D
<flocculant> bluesabre: perhaps I'll see what turns up in ppa instead :)
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> yeah, look for it probably tonight (your tomorrow morning)
<flocculant> okey doke
<flocculant> in the meantime - lunch 
<knome> good idea...
<Unit193> So ibus is still a problem no?  What about fcitx?
<pleia2> slickyma1ter: updated G+ and FB, thanks for the ping
<Unit193> https://packages.qa.debian.org/libd/libdvd-pkg/news/20150727T232131Z.html Yey!  I'm finally done with my work items from 2012!
<pleia2> Unit193: hehe
<Unit193> Now, what was that for again?  Adding to restricted-extras or something?
<bluesabre> :D
#xubuntu-devel 2015-08-19
<bluesabre> so quiet
<bluesabre> let's make it less quiet
<bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/catfish-search/1.3/1.3.0
<bluesabre> and packages in xubuntu-staging ppa
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> I'll upload to ubuntu tomorrow after folks get a chance to take a peek
<bluesabre> Unit193: I still plan to make the CSD optional, looking at 1.3.1 for that
<bluesabre> ;)
<Unit193> Woohoo. :D
<bluesabre> aaaand https://launchpad.net/menulibre/2.1/2.1.0
<bluesabre> menulibre packages upload to xubuntu-staging and are building
<bluesabre> so catfish and menulibre available to play with in vivid and wily
<bluesabre> night all
<bluesabre> oh, and blacklisted human and tango themes on the seed, so tomorrow's daily should be just libreoffice-style-elementary
<bluesabre> we'll see
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> bluesabre: I'm a numpty - catfish looks the same if you switch on sidebar ... but got ppa one now :)
<bluesabre> flocculant: running /usr/bin/catfish ?
<bluesabre> or, are you saying that its working correctly now?
<bluesabre> there's also a new menulibre in the ppa
<bluesabre> I'll upload both tonight when I get home
<flocculant> bluesabre: working correctly - and probably was yesterday too 
<flocculant> didn't see the 'turn sidebar on' checkbox
<jjfrv8> bluesabre, catfish looks nice, even though I'm not a fan of CSD.
<jjfrv8> bluesabre, everything seems to work as expected for me except the Modified-Custom setting. It just doesn't seem to behave like I think it should.
<jjfrv8> eg, if I select the Downloads folder which has files modified today, it shows them with "Any time" and "This week", but not with "Custom" no matter which dates I select.
<ochosi> jjfrv8: iirc that was a known regression that hasn't been addressed yet (could be wrong though)
<ochosi> and hi everyone
<jjfrv8> hi, ochosi, and thanks :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: somehow catfish feels extremely fast now, did you feed it some steroids or is my perception simply off? :)
<ochosi> xnox: since you seem to be using xfce now and were wondering about the panel, would you be interested in sponsoring a panel extension for us for wily (backs up and restores panel config)? https://bugs.launchpad.net/xfpanel-switch/+bug/1484478
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1484478 in Xfce Panel Switch "ITP: xfpanel-switch -- layout manager for the Xfce panel" [Wishlist,In progress]
<ochosi> if so, that'd be a great help! we wanna test this in wily (internal testing has been done obviously) and then make it shine in the LTS
<xnox> ochosi: possibly.
<ochosi> xnox: anyway, if you could help out, that'd be much appreciated! i guess everything should be noted in the report linked above already, if questions arise, bluesabre would be the one to contact
<ochosi> either way hf using xfce :)
<flocculant> image failed to build today 
<flocculant> should be good tomorrow 
<Unit193> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/platform.wily/revision/1998 is the reason, yeah.
<Unit193> bluesabre: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~lubuntu-dev/ubuntu-seeds/lubuntu.wily/revision/313 - http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~lubuntu-dev/ubuntu-seeds/lubuntu.wily/revision/309
<ochosi> Unit193: interesting, so an ibus alternative
<knome> o hai ochosi 
<Unit193> 'Tis why I asked about it yesterday.
<bluesabre> hey all
<bluesabre> Unit193: ibus alternative?  didn't see a mention of it yesterday
<bluesabre> did the image fail because of my change?
<Unit193> No, see my first link.
<bluesabre> gotcha
<bluesabre> jjfrv8, ochosi: yeah, I noticed after I released catfish that there seems to be an issue with the end date, but custom time after start and before today should work
<bluesabre> ochosi: I did tweak some things that should have made a speed difference
<ochosi> nice
<ochosi> nice work there, bluesabre 
<ochosi> btw, the label getting refreshed periodically to say "Searching ." "Seaching .." "Searching ..." is obviously not crucial, but it's nice to have some sort of progress indicator there when you don't get any results (cause then that screen remains for a while)
<bluesabre> ochosi: right, probably for next release
<ochosi> yeah, totally fine with that :)
<bluesabre> going to grab food now
<ochosi> this one really is very nice already
<bluesabre> let me know anything that you need me to do tonight, going to upload catfish and menulibre
<ochosi> bluesabre: btw, as you can see i pinged around for panel-switch, but i'm mostly afk during the day myself atm, so don't expect too much
<ochosi> maybe knome can help out
<bluesabre> yeah, we'll see if we can convince some folks to help us out
<bluesabre> gotta run now, bbl
<ochosi> okeydokey, bon appetit!
<knome> maybe. with what?
<ochosi> https://bugs.launchpad.net/xfpanel-switch/+bug/1484478
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1484478 in Xfce Panel Switch "ITP: xfpanel-switch -- layout manager for the Xfce panel" [Wishlist,In progress]
<ochosi> aka "getting xfpanel-switch sponsored by a motu as a new package"
<ochosi> the closeness to FF makes this a bit harder i guess
<knome> i asked Mirv in PM
<ochosi> ty
#xubuntu-devel 2015-08-20
<bluesabre> baaaack
<Mirv> much better, and even bluesabre is here :) thanks Unit193 
<Unit193> Any time, glad to help.
<Mirv> bluesabre: so, xfpanel-switch is now at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/wily/+queue?queue_state=0&queue_text= with just http://paste.ubuntu.com/12133680/ diff applied to it
<Mirv> or its packaging
<Mirv> now needs archive admin attention, which is a bit problematic since they tend to be at DebConf at the moment. but I guess they don't forget about FF while there :)
<micahg> requirement for new packages before feature freeze is that they're uploaded IIRC
<Mirv> ah, that's probably correct, then it's alright
<Unit193> micahg: Hi.
<flocculant> morning 
<astraljava> o/
<bluesabre> Mirv: you rock!
<Mirv> bluesabre: thank knome for nudging me :)
 * bluesabre nudges knome
<bluesabre> hmmm
<bluesabre> blacklisted libreoffice-style-human on our seed and its still on the iso
<bluesabre> suppose that's going to take more work
<bluesabre> gotta run, bbl
<flocculant> ... 
 * flocculant hadn't got as far as looking yet 
<bluesabre> hey flocculant 
<bluesabre> catfish and menulibre uploaded last night
<flocculant> yep - saw that \o/
<flocculant> sorting out some mails re those 2 and b1 over the next day or so
<bluesabre> and Mirv uploaded xfpanel-switch, it's just waiting for an admin to move it along
<flocculant> I'm not about next week till too late to deal with b1
<bluesabre> np
<flocculant> yep - read the xfpanel stuff too
<bluesabre> nothing else new from me, spent some time last night and this morning on catfish/menulibre release announcements
<bluesabre> and not getting enough sleep
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> time for a rest then :D
<bluesabre> so, onwards with the day (and coffee), bbl
<flocculant> have fun :)
<knome> Mirv, heh! no problem, thank YOU!
<knome> Mirv, since you came all the way here, maybe you also want to see our new status tracker: http://tracker.xubuntu.org/ :)
<Mirv> knome: oh, so sweet! :)
 * knome bows
<knome> Unit193, soo... when was the next meeting for packageset upload applications?
<ochosi> evening all
<knome> hello ochosi 
<ochosi> saw all the good news
<ochosi> thanks knome 
<knome> np
<ochosi> Mirv: hey! first of all, thanks a lot for helping with xfpanel-switch!
<ochosi> Mirv: secondly (and maybe you saw that coming), i just saw that one of our default apps got a release today (gmusicbrowser) and if you have time to bump that to 1.1.15, that'd be awesome! otherwise nvm - we can always go for FFe
<ochosi> Mirv: and finally: thanks again! :)
<flocculant> evening ochosi 
<ochosi> hey flocculant 
<ochosi> didn't expect to see you around so late :)
<flocculant> no work till September \o/ 
<ochosi> weee
<ochosi> lucky oyu
<ochosi> you
<flocculant> indeed
<ochosi> btw, i pushed a last commit for LO 5.0 to our icon theme last night
<flocculant> oh 
<ochosi> feel free to try writer and calc with it and tell me what you think
<ochosi> personally i feel it's ok to ship as is
<flocculant> I need to redo LO 5 - uninstalled it a while back for some reason 
<ochosi> for 5.0 i had to fix some additional icons
<flocculant> I think there was package held up and it was annoying me :D
<ochosi> main focus were the toolbar icons, cause those are the most visible/prominent
<ochosi> i also did some menu icons though, but there are still many that would need fixing up (especially in calc)
<flocculant> yep
<flocculant> just redoing LO5 now 
<flocculant> I've been using base a bit lately too 
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> have never used that
<ochosi> so no idea how it even looks :>
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> it's not looking odd 
<ochosi> well that's something, i guess :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: marked that evaluation workitem as DONE since we already decided to give it a go in wily. if you want to track uploading it to the archive separately (although that seems to be already nicely in motion) we can add another workitem for that
<knome> trying to make the burndown look good? :P
<ochosi> hehe, ofc
<bluesabre> evening all
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> hey bluesabre 
<flocculant> hi bluesabre 
<knome> hey sean
<bluesabre> omg so many people
<bluesabre> ochosi: got any artwork releases you want to tag before monday for b1?
<bluesabre> and, anything still need uploading today?
<bluesabre> saw a mention of gmb
<ochosi> bluesabre: yeah, just wanted to tell you that i'm about to tag a new version for the LO icon theme
<ochosi> yeah, gmb had a new release, 1.1.15
<ochosi> but that's not in our package-set, so not too much we can do about it
<bluesabre> ah
<ochosi> other than bug the package-maintainers
<bluesabre> who has gmb?
<ochosi> i think normally it's synced from debian
<bluesabre> we do http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/packagesets/wily/xubuntu
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> we should really make that list more accessible
<ochosi> anyhow, so if you wanna push that through before FF...
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> I'll check it
<bluesabre> usually we're slow there because of our shimmer theme
<ochosi> you mean the patches?
<bluesabre> yeah
<ochosi> indeed
<knome> ochosi, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Processes/Development :P
<ochosi> so yeah, here you go: https://github.com/shimmerproject/libreoffice-style-elementary/releases/tag/v0.2
<bluesabre> and yeah, looks like we usually sync from debian
<ochosi> knome: yeah, that should really go on the website
<knome> i'm not sure
<ochosi> i generally dislike the mix of website and wiki we currently have
<ochosi> i'd really prefer to have it all in one place, or at least making it seem like it's one palce
<knome> that should really go somewhere that is more accessible than the wiki, but since it's not really user-oriented information, it shouldn't be on the website
<ochosi> place
<ochosi> well, developer site then
<bluesabre> looks like a substantial update to gmb, so going to predict we don't get that in today, but can push for it later
<ochosi> you could add it to the blueprint
<ochosi> just so we dont forget, no matter who ends up uploading it
<bluesabre> yeah
<ochosi> i'll do another greybird release soonish
<ochosi> could do one before b1
<ochosi> otherwise catfish will look bad
<ochosi> originally wanted to add another WM theme, but i might just push that in before UIF
<bluesabre> yeah
<Unit193> bluesabre: Yes we went over blacklisting, it doesn't mean it doesn't get installed, just that it isn't selected as part of the task.
<Unit193> knome: In time.
<ochosi> bluesabre: so i could tag greybird now if you want, so you can upload it anytime
<bluesabre> Unit193: ah... I thought blacklists blocked recommends from the iso
<bluesabre> :(
<bluesabre> Unit193: where is the proper documentation for seeds so I can stop flailing :)
<bluesabre> ochosi: that'd be cool with me
<bluesabre> I'm feeling uploady
<Unit193> bluesabre: ...Not sure there is any?  Maybe check germinate?
<bluesabre> Unit193: ah, indeed the germinate manpage has some stuff to it
<Unit193> Didn't think it had as much as I'd like.
<bluesabre> yeah
<ochosi> bluesabre: there you go again: https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/releases/tag/v1.6.1
<bluesabre> ochosi: yay
<flocculant> this omg people is off now
<flocculant> see you in the morning - hopefully I'll remember meeting in time ... 
<ochosi> yup hope i can make it too
<ochosi> night flocculant 
<Unit193> I'm not going to this meeting you speak of.
<ochosi> bluesabre: anything else you wanted from me..? cause i'm also about to go to bed
<bluesabre> ochosi: you're free to run away
<bluesabre> flocculant: seeya tomorrow
<ochosi> bluesabre: ok, thanks :]
<ochosi> night everyone!
<bluesabre> night ochosi 
<ochosi> see you tomorrow, hopefully
<ochosi> bluesabre: also, this seems relevant: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1486970
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1486970 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "Include the fix to avoid tearing with Nvidia" [Undecided,New]
<ochosi> could also try to motivate olivier to do a release at some point, but for wily we likely would have to carry that as a patch anyway
<bluesabre> yeah, will try to check that out tonight/this weekend
<ochosi> k, thanks!
<bluesabre> oh right, shimmer-themes is not in our packageset currently
<bluesabre> :(
<knome> meh..
<bluesabre> micahg: any leads on how to get that back in our possession? :)
<bluesabre> is there maybe a public source for the tool that generates the packagesets so I can offer up a patch?
<knome> hmm,
<knome> weird how the events lines in the burndown do not always align the same way
 * knome shrugs
<Unit193> bluesabre: -release.
<bluesabre> Unit193: yeah, thankfully not waiting for anything to sync (afaik)
<Unit193> That, and you could ask there.
<bluesabre> might as well
<bluesabre> :)
#xubuntu-devel 2015-08-21
<micahg> bluesabre: yeah, I have to hack up the packageset generation script
<micahg> bluesabre: something I can upload for you?
<bluesabre> micahg: yeah, I can upload to a ppa if you want to pick it out of there?
<bluesabre> micahg: uploaded shimmer-themes to https://launchpad.net/~bluesabre/+archive/ubuntu/sponsoring/+packages, still building there
<micahg> sure, thanks
<bluesabre> thanks micahg :)
<micahg> I'm sorry I haven't fixed it yet, still playing catch up
<bluesabre> micahg: np, we're managing fairly well around here
<micahg> bluesabre: can you take a look at the blueman merge, I'm not 100% sure about the python patch that we're carrying, we'll need an FFE at this point to get it in
<micahg> I assume we'd like it this cycle
<micahg> ?
<bluesabre> micahg: yeah, I'll take a look
<bluesabre> new blueman would be a nice bonus
 * bluesabre has a bluetooth mouse and headphones
<micahg> thanks, justification for FFe bluez5 just landed last week (or so) and blueman needed that or obexd (which was removed from Debian)
<bluesabre> micahg: taking a look at the merge, looks like we can drop 03_filemanager_fix.patch, and then we might (or not) need to provide a config for org.blueman.transfer.browse-command in x-d-s
<micahg> ok, sounds like that should be tested before it's uploaded, did you already prepare a merge or just look at the patch?
<bluesabre> looked at the merge, tried applying the patch, then looked at the code
<bluesabre> in apps/blueman-browse this is the code that makes this all work (line 55)
<bluesabre>         try:
<bluesabre>             if conf["browse-command"]:
<bluesabre>                 launch(conf["browse-command"].replace("%d", addr), system=True, name="blueman")
<bluesabre>             else:
<bluesabre>                 Gtk.show_uri(None, ('obex://[%s]' % addr), Gdk.CURRENT_TIME)
<bluesabre> but yeah, I can prepare a merge
<micahg> ok
<bluesabre> micahg: package built against the transition ppa here https://launchpad.net/~bluesabre/+archive/ubuntu/bluez5
<bluesabre> want me to follow through the normal merge process with the merge bug, etc?
<bluesabre> ah, found the bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/blueman/+bug/1482626
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1482626 in blueman (Ubuntu) "Sync blueman 2.0-1 (universe) from Debian stretch (main)" [Wishlist,Incomplete]
<micahg> yeah, bluez already landed IIRC
<bluesabre> cool
<bluesabre> commented on that bug, attaching debdiffs
<bluesabre> it seems to run fine in wily (at least in a vm)
<bluesabre> added
<bluesabre> micahg: need anything else for that?
<bluesabre> I'll be running wily again this weekend if we need a hardware test
<micahg> ok, I think it's ok, I can add the FFe
<micahg> thanks
<bluesabre> np, thanks micahg
<Unit193> bluesabre: Going to be FFe'ing all around/
<bluesabre> Unit193: so it seems :D
<bluesabre> Unit193: care to look at gmb 1.1.15 for debian? https://gmusicbrowser.org/release-notes.txt
<bluesabre> (since you did the last one)
<bluesabre> I need to go to bed if I hope to make it to the meeting tomorrow :)
<bluesabre> night all
<Mirv> ochosi: sorry, I was sleeping already :)
<Unit193> Good plan.
<Unit193> bluesabre: And yeah had considered that, looks only a new alt rec on mpv.
<Unit193> bluesabre: http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/pkg-multimedia/gmusicbrowser.git btw, that.
<flocculant> morning
<dkessel> hey there
<flocculant> !team | meeting in 5 
<ubottu> meeting in 5: bluesabre, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster, Unit193
<knome> oh poop
<flocculant> someone needs to sort that factoid I guess
<knome> yes
<knome> i can do that in 5
<knome> and for the meeting, i'll have more or less bad focus
<knome> but i will be aroundish
<flocculant> okey doke
<bluesabre> helllloooooooo
<flocculant> \o/
<flocculant> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Fri Aug 21 10:00:07 2015 UTC.  The chair is flocculant. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<flocculant> so who actually is here? 
<knome> !team
<ubottu> bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, lderan, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster, Unit193
<bluesabre> o/
<knome> not that list!
<knome> but it's now updated
<knome> and o/
<flocculant> thanks knome :)
<knome> np
<dkessel> yay for more pings! im there with a strange keyboard setting due to remote connection :)
<flocculant> #topic Open action items
<knome> dkessel, you don't need the umlauts now :P
<flocculant> ACTION: Unit193 to split up the xubuntu-core workitem on the blueprint to be able to track the progress better 
<flocculant> which as far as I am aware Unit193 did
<knome> then undo it ;)
<dkessel> knome: but what about the apostrophes and the question marks
<knome> otherwise it'll keep on cycling around...
<flocculant> #done Unit193 to split up the xubuntu-core work item on the blueprint to be able to track the progress better 
<knome> (too bad that doesn't close the action item :( )
<flocculant> knome: no need to undo it as I didn't #action it :p
<knome> oh hah
<knome> right'o..
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> what did i say about my focus again..
<flocculant> that it would be about normal :D
<flocculant> #Team Updates
<Unit193> Doesn't matter too much at this point, FF has passed.  All 3 are up though, and were up before it.
<knome> flocculant, that failed!
<flocculant> hi Unit193 
<flocculant> #topic Team Updates
<Unit193> Hi / bye
<flocculant> cya 
<bluesabre> #info Catfish 1.3.0 and MenuLibre 2.1.0 uploaded to wily
<bluesabre> #info libreoffice-style-elementary 0.2 included in xubuntu-artwork 15.10.3 uploaded to wily
<dkessel> lots of new stuff to break :)
<bluesabre> #info new shimmer-themes release pending upload to wily, includes fixes for GtkHeaderBars
<flocculant> #info Image testing is much as normal - basic smoketesting going on
<flocculant> #info no idea what's going on in package world 
<bluesabre> #info work on getting blueman 2.0 into wily started moving along, but will now require a FFe
<flocculant> yep read that :)
<bluesabre> what else have we done in the past few days..?
<flocculant> #info milestone testing next week (hopefully) 
<flocculant> bluesabre: panel switch thing
<knome> #done knome worked more with the work items tracker improving bits here and there
<bluesabre> oh right
<flocculant> #info testing for catfish and menulibre in plan 
<flocculant> #action flocculant set up catfish/menulibre testing
<meetingology> ACTION: flocculant set up catfish/menulibre testing
<bluesabre> #info xfpanel-switch uploaded prior to feature freeze, pending archive admin approval
<flocculant> so I don't forget that ... 
<bluesabre> (thanks Mirv)
<dkessel> #info balloons is looking at hardware options for the automated image testing stuff, running tests on nested cloud VMs was negative
<flocculant> \o/ 
<flocculant> anything else before we move on
<bluesabre> one more....
<flocculant> :)
<bluesabre> #info libreoffice-style-elementary included in wily and is default. We also currently have libreoffice-style-human on the iso, working on shipping only the former
<bluesabre> ok
<knome> bluesabre, question
<bluesabre> hm
<knome> if we don't seed the default themes
<knome> will the "fallback" work, eg. will we still have all icons visible?
<knome> or do those come from "real" icon themes?
<bluesabre> for lo?
<knome> yes
<knome> or did we just dumpy everything in the new package
<knome> -y
<bluesabre> it seems like the themes can inherit from each other, but none of them do, they're all self-contained
<knome> ok, fair enough, just wondering
<knome> (maybe we should look at inheriting for w+1 if we still do that a lot)
<knome> continue
<bluesabre> libreoffice seems to pick the first alphabetically, so that's convenient for us
<bluesabre> e before g and h
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> ughhh
<flocculant> heh
<flocculant> moving on then
<flocculant> #topic Announcements
<flocculant> nothing that I'm aware of (that's not going to come up in a minute)
<bluesabre> theres a few
<flocculant> I'll let you get on with them then
<bluesabre> #info Beta 1 Freeze on Monday, Beta 1 on Thursday
<flocculant> well that's one that'll be coming up in a minute :D
<bluesabre> #info User Interface Freeze on September 10
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> that's an announcement, reminder to get in gear ;)
<knome> #info remember to keep your work items up to date
<bluesabre> now that it's easy, no excuses
<knome> i'm happy that we only have a few unassigned items
<knome> only a longer list of bugs for -dev
<bluesabre> yup
<flocculant> couple could possibly go 
<bluesabre> bugfix time starts now :'(
<flocculant> anymore announcements? 
<bluesabre> done here
<knome> i'm good
<flocculant> #topic Discussion
<flocculant> #subtopic Beta 1 milestone
<flocculant> so - assuming it happens
<knome> yes please
<flocculant> that relies on someone from community doing stuff
<flocculant> I would but I'm MIA next week
<flocculant> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WilyWerewolf/ReleaseTaskSignup
<flocculant> no-one on checklist tracking for B1 
<flocculant> I'll be mailing -release later saying that we will participate and higlighting it's empty
<flocculant> so all being well - I'll send mail to list for us
<bluesabre> oh wow
<bluesabre> nice big hole there
<flocculant> but will have to rely on -release and -qa to chivvy people along for us 
<flocculant> and probably mark ready on thursday
<knome> i will be off whole monday...
<flocculant> #action flocculant Mail dev re B1 testing 
<meetingology> ACTION: flocculant Mail dev re B1 testing
<bluesabre> I can get on and mark ready for us as needed on thursday if nobody else can
<knome> i should be able to do that as well
<flocculant> #action Xubuntu Release/QA teams to try and move testers along if needed
<meetingology> ACTION: Xubuntu Release/QA teams to try and move testers along if needed
<knome> - even if i'm not in the -release team O:)
<flocculant> #action flocculant mail -release re Beta 1
<meetingology> ACTION: flocculant mail -release re Beta 1
<flocculant> that's all I have on that 
<flocculant> though I do have another topic to start the ball rolling on
<knome> do we have a testing focus?
<knome> or just everything?
<flocculant> knome: well - yea everything - at least try and get some hardware tests in the mix
<knome> yep
<flocculant> if I'm back in time I'll weigh in obviously 
<bluesabre> I think a new nvidia landed recently, so that could be fun or trouble
<knome> yep, np, take your time etc :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: not seen that 
<bluesabre> it might be in the queue still
<flocculant> probably old card too ;)
<bluesabre> :)
<flocculant> anymore B1 points? 
<bluesabre> (nvidia-graphics-drivers-352 (352.30-0ubuntu1))
<bluesabre> I don't think i have anything at this time
<knome> bluesabre, ochosi: do you want to upload the new wallpaper for B1?
<bluesabre> knome: if it's ready, hand it over and I will upload
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> i'll have to do some tweaks, but mostly it's good to go
<bluesabre> nice
<flocculant> bluesabre: yea - just looked, my card = 340. as far as I can tell :)
<bluesabre> two releases in a row on time with the artwork
 * bluesabre is proud
<flocculant> :)
<knome> ha
<flocculant> okey doke - time to move on? 
<knome> yep
 * bluesabre nods
<flocculant> #subtopic Package testing 
<flocculant> ... 
<flocculant> ok so - currently we are not using the tracker and trying for exploratory
<flocculant> I need to get that mail (or whatever I do) sent out
<flocculant> but
<ochosi> hi everyone
<ochosi> sorry for being late
<flocculant> we don't now have any real way of tracking things - just relying on bugs being reported
<flocculant> hi ochosi ::)
<bluesabre> yeah
 * ochosi is reading backlog now
<bluesabre> hiya ochosi 
<knome> flocculant, we could probably ask people to add certain tag to the bugs to make it a bit more trackable
<flocculant> yep - that at least is in my notes for whatever I send
<knome> and with that, we could eventually pull a list of those bugs to the tracker too
<flocculant> that's what I was leading up to :D
<flocculant> I think this is what we talked a bit about a week or so ago
<flocculant> just wanted to bring it up in a meeting
<flocculant> so - as far as tag goes - something easy to remember like xubuntu-w(or x or y)
<knome> or something that goes from cycle to cycle and then another tag to list the cycle?
<knome> eg. add "xubuntu-exploratory" and "wily"
<ochosi> knome: i'd be ok with shipping the new wall with b1, although otoh we haven't done that in the past and there's no more "scoop" to it
<flocculant> knome: ok - that probably sounds best
<ochosi> and i like the "in development" wallpaper
<knome> ochosi, that's why i asked, i can also hold on to it until b2
<ochosi> bluesabre: mind waiting with the wall?
<knome> he doesn't have it, so... :P
<bluesabre> ochosi: I don't mind
<flocculant> ha ha 
<bluesabre> I just upload when you guys say 'hey sean, wp'
<knome> i'm mostly going to do testing with a laptop screen to make stuff is visible enough
<ochosi> :)
<knome> and maybe tweak some minor things
<ochosi> right, feel free to share within -team if you want feedback
<ochosi> or -artwork :p
<knome> that said, there's not much to tweak in four triangles...
<knome> "oops" :P
<flocculant> no curves \o/ 
<ochosi> :D
<flocculant> I can see angles ... 
<knome> probably some elliptical circles
<flocculant> ha ha 
<bluesabre> there goes knome using ms paint again
<knome> \o/
<ochosi> lol
<knome> that'd be a challenge
<knome> it's ages since i did pure pixel pushing
<ochosi> for LTS+1 maybe ? :D
<knome> huhu
<bluesabre> :p
<knome> well, LTS starts the new wp saga
<knome> so who knows...
<ochosi> anyhow, you've already listed my updates
<ochosi> so thanks for that
<flocculant> ok - anymore wp stuff - if not ... 
<ochosi> anything else you want to discuss with me?
<ochosi> cause i gotta run in a minute again
<ochosi> "moar baby stuff"
<ochosi> (sorry to be so disruptive)
<bluesabre> :)
<flocculant> ochosi: you ok with others working out a way to get exploratory stuff on our tracker? 
<flocculant> ochosi: and if you think this is disruptive ... 
<ochosi> flocculant: sure!
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> i'll read the rest of the backlog then, sry! bbl
<flocculant> ok - so if knome and I work that out - assuming knome is happy :)
<ochosi> cool
<ochosi> thanks flocculant + knome :)
<knome> yep, i'm ok
<flocculant> #action knome and flocculant to work out exploratory bugs on tracker
<meetingology> ACTION: knome and flocculant to work out exploratory bugs on tracker
<flocculant> I've nothing else for discussion - anyone else got anything? 
<bluesabre> i'm good
<flocculant> knome dkessel ? 
<knome> nope
<flocculant> #topic Schedule next meeting
<flocculant> let's have another go at ... 
<flocculant> #info slickymaster is to schedule the next meeting
<bluesabre> yay not me
<flocculant> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Aug 21 10:42:44 2015 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2015/xubuntu-devel.2015-08-21-10.00.moin.txt
<bluesabre> thanks flocculant!
<flocculant> I'll get the wiki sorted
<knome> ta
<knome> huh, too hot :|
<flocculant> do we need to add dkessel and krytarik as sacrificial lambs to the chair list :p
<knome> no, they are not team leads
<flocculant> oh yea ... 
<flocculant> was hoping for 1 meeting to run a cycle :D
<knome> hah
<flocculant> ok notes are up 
<flocculant> thanks everyone :)
<knome> thank you
<dkessel> sorry, had to take a call
<flocculant> that's ok :)
<knome> part of the fun sometimes is to say hello when the meeting begins and then disappear
<dkessel> hah, me no chairing :)
<dkessel> well thanks for chairing, flocculant. i will try to do tests before the beta, but i am moving and so i am not even sure if i will have internet next week at all
<dkessel> bb, cya later
<knome> dkessel, happy moving!
<flocculant> indeed - have fun with that :)
<knome> ok, i'm off as well
<knome> bbl
<flocculant> bluesabre: couple of bugs on the bug bp - parole with blank screen and camera not initialising
<flocculant> knome: cya
<flocculant> bluesabre: I know we have a workround in for parole - do we leave that bug on the list? 
<flocculant> not sure about the camera issue - I see that still happening
<bluesabre> flocculant: I think parole is fixed, worked around it
<bluesabre> the camera issue is a larger issue which I haven't found a solution for yet
<bluesabre> now that FF has happened, I am going to push more time into those bugs
<flocculant> bluesabre: ok - just thought I'd mention them both
<bluesabre> thanks
<bluesabre> :)
<flocculant> :)
<bluesabre> heading to work now, bbl
<flocculant> I knew the parole one had a work round - but it's sitting on the bp stil
<flocculant> yep - have a good day - cya :)
<pleia2> tsk, 3am meetings ;)
<knome> hah
<knome> hello pleia2 
<pleia2> o/ knome 
<pleia2> knome: I am still waking up, will you be around in ~3 hours to chat flyers?
<knome> i can be
<knome> just came home from dad's 60yo parties and a few beers with a friend after that
<knome> so it's not likely i'm crashing bed soon
<knome> i guess for normal people it might, but for me... nah.
<pleia2> well, I'll be around some on Sunday too just in case ;)
<knome> sunday is a bit meh for me (leaving for a cruise in the afternoon) so today is better
<knome> and i don't have any responsibilities tomorrow, so it's ok to stay up "late"
<pleia2> k :)
<pleia2> where does one cruise to up there?
<knome> tallinn or stockholm most often
<knome> we're going to stockholm
<knome> two nights on the boat, a whole day in stockholm
<pleia2> sounds lovely :)
<knome> going with two friends and not wife, so rather fun than lovely
<bluesabre> evening all
<knome> hey sean
<bluesabre> hiya pasi
<knome> what's up?
<knome> going to make the burndown look better?
<bluesabre> knome: I might work on that tonight
<bluesabre> or take a night to breathe
<bluesabre> not sure which yet
<knome> mhm, that's important too
<bluesabre> ;)
<ochosi> yup, i'm gonna do the latter
<ochosi> have to move to the new flat this weekend
<ochosi> so will be afk
<ochosi> but pushed a rather big icon commit just now
<ochosi> so enjoy ;)
<ochosi> night all!
<bluesabre> night ochosi 
<bluesabre> ooh, the new battery icons
<bluesabre> time to take a look at those
<bluesabre> at some oint
<bluesabre> point
<knome> pleia2, did you know 5 hours is not ~3 hours? :]
<pleia2> day flew by o_o
<knome> heh
<knome> do you still want to look at it or shall we pass it to some other day?
<pleia2> let's just do it
<knome> ok
<knome> i'll get my mouse
<knome> so, let me explain this process to you
<knome> since it's probably better you understand it before i make you try stuff
<pleia2> +1
<knome> so if you have an .FB mode (you don't),
<knome> you can basically print out the file 1:1, and the file can be exactly the size of the paper
<knome> as you would expect really
<knome> but if you don't, we run into problems
<pleia2> .fb mode?
<knome> basically, your printer then refuses to print it 1:1 and then squeezes the page
<knome> even if you tell it not to squeeze to fit the page
<pleia2> aha
<knome> yes, .FB mode is a certain print output mode
<pleia2> I see
<knome> so i know we've done this before, but just to lay out the stuff
<knome> 'lpstat -a' gives you the list of your printers
<knome> 'lpoptions -l -d [device]' gives you the options for the printer in question
<knome> and that also has a list of media modes
<knome> those can be things like A4, Letter, A4.FB, Letter.FB, etc
<knome> there are likely plenty of them
<knome> it's all the sizes the printer can print to
<knome> well, at least all the preset ones...
<knome> and for completeness, if you had an FB mode for your media size, then the print command would simply be:
<knome> lp -s -d [device] -o fit-to-page -o OutputMode=Best -o Media=[media] -P 1 flyer.pdf
<knome> (simply and simply...)
<knome> but you can probably figure out that's just giving certain options to the printer etc
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> so, sigh...
<knome> i believe that if you don't have the FB mode
<knome> there is no way to print the file 1:1 from the PDF that has the document size you want
<knome> with any options
<knome> but to make sure, maybe we should try it
<knome> let me figure out the command...
<pleia2> I'm thinking that since this is a networked printer hooked up via another linux machine it's not serving the responses I need
<pleia2> lpoptions: Unable to get PPD file for Brother-HL-1250-seriesCMD:PDF,PS,JPEG,PNG,URF: Unknown
<knome> hmm, likely so
<knome> but that's fine
<pleia2> ah, if I log in directly to the one it's connected to I get stuff
<pleia2> http://paste.ubuntu.com/12146069/
<knome> :)
<knome> yep, Letter is the default
<pleia2> I see no FB
<knome> ok, so let me first upload the pdf again
<pleia2> k
<knome> and then give you the command
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/temp/xubuntu/.flyer/
<knome> lp -s -d HL1250 -o Media=Letter -P 1 flyer_USletter.pdf
<knome> that should print one page
<knome> it should be obvious whether the three-fold sections line up correctly or not
 * pleia2 collects from printer
<knome> but fwiw, the left hand margin should be aroud 0.35 inches
<pleia2> folds nicely
<knome> really?
<pleia2> yes
<knome> >___<
<knome> then what on earth has been going wrong so far
<pleia2> lol
<pleia2> maybe I should print both sides to confirm
<knome> when i did that, i had too large margins
 * pleia2 -P 2
<knome> yep
<knome> well, tbh, if this works, i'm happy nonetheless
<knome> for my mental health issues, can you check with a ruler how much padding there is for the left and right hand sides
<knome> that is, empty space between the text column and page border
<knome> actually, for the right hand side, check the padding from the right side of the ubuntu logo in pg2
<knome> the front page screenshot might be a bit overflowing
<knome> i can't remember if it's intentional or not any more
<knome> likely is
<pleia2> screenshot on the front page is maybe .3 inches from the edge
<knome> should be around 0.23
<pleia2> no wait, let's see
<pleia2> non-precise measuring tape ;)
<knome> :D
<pleia2> it's in 1/8s of an inch, then guessing
<knome> the svg says it's slightly less than 6mm
<knome> and 6mm converts to 0.23622
<pleia2> 3/16th of an inch :)
<knome> ok
<knome> then i'd guess the other padding is more than it should be
<knome> but that's likely just the printer
<pleia2> other side (from Contribute to Xubuntu Heading) is 3/8ths
<pleia2> but printing double sided still lets things line up and it folds in a non-offending way
<knome> yes, that adds up
<knome> the printer skewed it by a mm or so
<knome> there's nothing we can do about that and it's fine
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> but it's good to hear the total is about what we have in the svg
<knome> so - we're done!
<pleia2> :D
<knome> so you can probably print this out from a GUI too
<knome> i've had bad experiences with that though
<knome> mum's printer has so many options and the options the GUI proposes are weird
<pleia2> lp is fine
<knome> and making sure they are all correct... sigh
<pleia2> heh, yeah
<knome> so before you print things
<knome> we should probably look updating the content a bit
<pleia2> knome: can you split this into 2 pdfs?
<knome> no
<knome> but i can not merge it to one
<knome> :P
<knome> well i can split it to two too...
<knome> but that would be silly
<pleia2> vistaprint wants the pages to be separate
<knome> D:
<pleia2> it can't see page 2
<knome> great...
<knome> are we fine with the content though?
<knome> i did abiword/gnumeric > LO the other day
<pleia2> yes, when I upload this their tool is super happy with margins and things and it looks good
<pleia2> it just only sees one side :)
<knome> :D
<knome> pdftk flyer_USletter.pdf cat 1 output flyer_page1.pdf
<knome> s/1/2/
<SwissBot> knome meant: "pdftk flyer_USletter.pdf cat 2 output flyer_page1.pdf"
<knome> SwissBot, you're wrong.
<SwissBot> hello knome
<knome> Unit193, can we turn that feature off?
<pleia2> lol
<Unit193> knome: Use better regex! :P
<knome> pleia2, hmm wait
<knome> you'll likely want the paths version anyway
<knome> i'll upload those
<knome> pleia2, refresh http://temp.knome.fi/temp/xubuntu/.flyer/
<pleia2> thank you
<knome> np
<knome> i should likely push these to a branch
<pleia2> ++
<knome> or sth...
 * pleia2 tries to use the mkdur command
<pleia2> I am tired :(
<pleia2> MAKE DUR PLZ
<knome> hah
<pleia2> knome: so is this flyer good? should I pay a few bucks to get a pile printed up or do we need more changes?
<knome> that was what i was asking from you
<pleia2> oh, hehe
<knome> on a general level, i'm happy about how it looks
<knome> and i'm good with the content too
<knome> the question is: is it all still up-to-date
<pleia2> oh good, all updated with libreoffice
<knome> and what to do with the screenshot
<pleia2> I assume we're not changing the background for 15.10?
<knome> likely not... i think we want to keep with LTS stuff
<pleia2> update copyright notice
<pleia2> maybe?
<knome> we don't have the rounding we have there anywhere
<knome> or in other words, it's VERY rounded there
<knome> that's probably my only visual issue
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> but to fix it is WORK
<knome> :|
<knome> but i can do that
<pleia2> heh
<pleia2> just don't want people to feel like this is already a year old when they look at it, since copyright is the only place we have a date
<knome> yep
<knome> i'll update that while i'm there too
<pleia2> 25 is the smallest batch they do, and right now I can get it them for $13.99 plus shipping
<knome> 5 mins
<pleia2> not many, we can print more once we come up with a plan for LTS next year :)
<knome> another small issue
<knome> should we remove the Â» from the front page?
<knome> that doesn't seem like it belongs there
<pleia2> yes, I just realized it's a block on my printed one
<knome> haha
<knome> ok..
<knome> any other blocks?
<knome> (wouldn't have been a block if you had used the paths version, since there is no text that can go wrong there)
<knome> refreshed files uploaded in the same place
<knome> well, not the main one
<knome> but separated pages
<pleia2> nope, that's it
<knome> does vistaprint do automatic folding?
<knome> wait, something went wrong there
<knome> duh
<knome> what am i messing around here
<pleia2> not sure, it may be an option when I check out
<knome> just don't pick one-fold
<knome> :D
<pleia2> yeah, the format selected is specifically a tri-fold
<knome> ok, all is uploaded now
<pleia2> it checks for measurements on all three folds
<knome> and should be final
<knome> at least until it's not
<knome> D:
<pleia2> :)
<knome> i'm happy with it now
<pleia2> good, me too
<pleia2> ok, I selected snail mailing (cheap) so it'll likely arrive when I'm traveling, will have it by the time I come home on sept 7th though
<knome> yup
<knome> great
<knome> i'm preparing pushing to a branch too
#xubuntu-devel 2015-08-22
<pleia2> ok, time to rest my eyeballs away from computer screens for an hour or so, bbiab
<knome> hf
<knome> https://launchpad.net/xubuntu-marketing
<knome> has a branch with flyer too
<knome> off to bed, nighty
<bluesabre> morning all
<knome> hello sean
<flocculant> hi both
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> trying to get to the bottom of the mugshot camera issue
<flocculant> bluesabre: anything in particular you want people to look for with catfish and menulibre? 
<flocculant> I was just going to point at your blog posts and ask for them to check things out 
<bluesabre> flocculant: nothing in particular. there is a known bug with the end date for catfish custom modified range not working
<bluesabre> other than that, just anything not working
<flocculant> ok :)
<bluesabre> progress! http://i.imgur.com/MRRUob1.png
<knome> hah, head
<knome> fore-, tbe
<bluesabre> using libcheese now to get something usable, should have something functional today/tomorrow again
<knome> :)
#xubuntu-devel 2015-08-23
<flocculant> knome: happy with xubuntu-exploratory plus dev version name? 
<knome> yes, i'm happy with that :)
<flocculant> personally I think it's too long and too easy for spolling errors to creep in - maybe something like x-exp :)
<knome> yeah, maybe
<knome> or xubuntu-exp?
<knome> it would be nice to spell out xubuntu just for others
<knome> so they understand what is "x"
<flocculant> maybe 
<flocculant> yea - true :)
<flocculant> ok - lets go with that then 
<knome> yep :)
<knome> i'll look at pulling the bug list to the tracker on tuesday or wednesday
<knome> leaving on a cruise tonight and will be back on tuesday morning
<flocculant> I'm doing a mail now - will add that to it 
<flocculant> ooh nice 
<flocculant> I'm looking at the weather forecast and thinking about postponing my away time 
<knome> lol
<knome> rain?
<knome> that's coming here tue-wed
<flocculant> yea - heavy seemingly - not sure I want to crashed in someone else's house and stuck indoors 
<knome> yeah..
<flocculant> on the other hand - it IS not here, which is the main point :p
<knome> heh
<knome> ok, i'm off
<knome> will be back on tuesday - i'll get back to mails and pings then
<knome> have fun everybody
<flocculant> have a good one :)
<flocculant> if the ubuntu software center is going to be left and end up in the doldrums - what are we going to do? 
<flocculant> just a thought for the next cycle :)
<pleia2> back to synaptic? ;)
<pleia2> but honestly, I don't use any of them, so I don't know
<flocculant> works for me :)
<flocculant> ha 
<flocculant> pleia2: could you social media beta 1 stuff for me
<pleia2> flocculant: I was going to wait until there was an iso available, but I'll think up some "stay tuned" wording
<flocculant> hopefully someone will follow along on Tuesday with a real url for it
<flocculant> pleia2: ok - works for me - happy to leave it in your capable hands 
<pleia2> just need to make sure whoever replies to the email with the ISO url keeps the full original email intact so there's context
<flocculant> yep 
<flocculant> with me and knome away - ping Unit193 and slickyma1ter to do that for us
<flocculant> anyway - off now
<pleia2> enjoy
<flocculant> be about for a few hours in the morning 
<flocculant> pleia2: I'll try - but it's looking like an inch of rain here AND where I am off to ... 
<pleia2> G+ and FB done, now 140 characters for twitter...
<pleia2> flocculant: poor planning ;)
<flocculant> 140/4 = TestTestTestTest ... 
<flocculant> :D
<flocculant> pleia2: indeed - people used to wait for me to book holiday - then book theirs at a different time 
<pleia2> haha
<pleia2> alright, twitter done too
<flocculant> you're awesome - thanks :)
<pleia2> sure thing
<flocculant> cya later - have a good day 
<micahg> sigh, ISO is 130MB oversized now
<micahg> I don't know that I can fix that :(
#xubuntu-devel 2016-08-22
<flocculant> bluesabre: iso is fine now 
<ochosi> woot, whisker-menu 2.0 - ported to gtk3
<Unit193> !info xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin yakkety
<ubottu> xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin (source: xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin): Alternate menu plugin for the Xfce desktop environment. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.6.0-0ubuntu1 (yakkety), package size 146 kB, installed size 669 kB
<ochosi> yeah, just wanted to mention the news, in case others didn't see it
<Unit193> We talked about it already, yep. :>
<Unit193> Good though, yep.
<akxwi-dave>  \o/
<ochosi> Unit193: packaged anywhere yet?
<ochosi> or any plans regarding that
<Unit193> Nope, and sure, perhaps tomorrow.
<ochosi> awesome
<Unit193> ...Oooor right now.  Weird, seems to require garcon 1.
<ochosi> oh, that's interesting
<Unit193> ochosi: It requires 3.20. :/
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/~unit193/+archive/ubuntu/xfce4-gtk3/+packages smoketesting there, will copy over after that.
<ochosi> ah right, well it's understandable. supporting 3.20 *and* below just sucks
<Unit193> But it's supposed to. :3
<Unit193> Looks like cmake doesn't do min deps like autotools either, nice.
<ochosi> flocculant: yes, the input boxes have a lot of outline :) it's only greybird 3.20.0 so there's a lot of breathing room until 3.20.1 ;)
<ochosi> i have a few more things to tweak on my list and that is one of them
<akxwi-dave> return of bug 1362076 
<ubottu> bug 1362076 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "During the system installing, the "skip" button displays abnormal after expanded the detail installing information." [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1362076
<akxwi-dave> also  new bug 1615569
<ubottu> bug 1615569 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Skip button on installer jumps back and forth with text" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1615569
<sorinello_> Hello. is this https://bugs.launchpad.net/xfpanel-switch/+bug/1555265 in the pipe for the next Xubuntu version ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1555265 in Xfce Panel Switch "[UX] User is not able to go back to current/initial configuration" [Undecided,New]
<bluesabre> sorinello_, suppose that should be improved... though technically, applying a new one makes that your "current configuration" and the one you had the "previous configuration"
<bluesabre> but I get where you're coming from ;)
<sorinello_> thing is that the user can lose its settings without knowing that its current config is not saved
<flocculant> ochosi: LOL
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: I did briefly mention the wandering skip button to cypermox - but then promptly went a made a cuppa and forgot 
<akxwi-dave> lol..   done that myself a few times
<flocculant> ochosi: not sure what the crack is with firefox - that still appears a 'bit' odd 
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: at a guess I'd suspect some gtk3.20 thing causing the wandering skip button - seems to be the way to go this cycle for evereyone - BLAME gtk3.20 :)
<flocculant> bluesabre ochosi - fix released for 1568604 \o/
<flocculant> \o/
<bluesabre> lp 1568604
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1568604 in xf86-video-intel "Mouse cursor lost when unlocking with Intel graphics" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1568604
<bluesabre> flocculant, woohoo!
<akxwi-dave> flocculant: thought it may be..   
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: why bug 1306866?
<ubottu> bug 1306866 in Ubuntu Kylin ""Desktop" is not localized in live mode" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1306866
<akxwi-dave> Thats the same number for multiple  ones for the same error...
<akxwi-dave> when I searched for it this is the one it showed..  Bug #1306866: "Desktop" is not localized in live mode
<ubottu> bug 1306866 in Ubuntu Kylin ""Desktop" is not localized in live mode" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1306866
<akxwi-dave> didn't notice that it showed Kylin as the default.. i
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: sorry, I meant what did you see that's a bug?
<akxwi-dave> ahhh.. when you click on the copying option to see where the progress is.. the skip button disappears..
<akxwi-dave> oops ignore that.. wrong one
<akxwi-dave>  bad day ... :-)
<flocculant> :)
<akxwi-dave> actually i choose the wrong bug.. need to create a new one... When installing from the live session and selecting UK, the resulting installed version was US
<flocculant> oh really? 
<akxwi-dave> yep
<flocculant> I can boot an installed one and report if you want
<akxwi-dave>  only noticed when I went to ubuntu-bug to create teh skip one and noticed there   i.e @ was " etc
<flocculant> k
<akxwi-dave>  cheers if you could.. 
<flocculant> yup no problem
<akxwi-dave> currently trying to sort out a self cert ssl on an exchange server..
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: umm - here I've got en on both installs, and 1 I just reinstalled to dbl chk
<akxwi-dave> kk will do a fresh install to triple check... it may be one of those stupid VBox things.... will go vmware on this one
<flocculant> perhaps you can look later to recheck what you did
<flocculant> aah right ok :)
<akxwi-dave> right.. mark that one down to vbox..    vmware is fine...  vbox not  
<flocculant> really - now that is bizarre :p
<akxwi-dave>  tell me.. been getting really wierd ones from vbox recently..  actually come to think of it.. most have been since their latest update 5,
<akxwi-dave> 5.14  *
<akxwi-dave> i'll check that when I get home.. got  5.1.2 installed their... just incase...
<flocculant> I've not used it for a long time now
<akxwi-dave>   i keep meaning to look up KVM  just not had time..
<flocculant> happy to tell you what I do locally anytime 
<akxwi-dave> cheer mate.. will have to grab you one night
<flocculant> bluesabre: sadly I led you up the garden path with 1568604, some random person changed it to fix released, bryan quigley set it back to wait for SRU system to set it ...
<ochosi> Unit193: any headway with whisker 2.0?
<ochosi> since you were playing with it earlier
<bluesabre> flocculant, boo
<bluesabre> ochosi, I think he mentioned that he might tackle it tomorrow (or was that today)
<ochosi> our honorable council nominee was complaining about cmake and gtk3.20 earlier, so i presume he actually did something today :)
<Unit193> ochosi: I thought I told you where it was last night?  I wasn't looking to fix it for Xenial.
<ochosi> ah ok, no copy-over for me?
<ochosi> also, from your messages i wasn't sure whether things had worked out
<Unit193> bluesabre: I was stupid enough to think that 5 am with not a lot of sleep was a great time to do it. :P
<ochosi> there was no "yay" message or something :)
<Unit193> ochosi: Ah, OK.  No, it hadn't been smoketested yet.  And that was mainly due to broken Xenial, which isn't something I had planned to fix.  Otherwise, it was a simple update.
<ochosi> i'll try and just install the yakkety package in my zombie xenial
<bluesabre> suppose I'm nominate myself, not seen a lot of response on it
<ochosi> wait, can you repeat that sentence?
<bluesabre> Unit193, why not wait until 8 am without sleep? :D
<knome> :D
<ochosi> Unit193: smoketest: looks fine on xenial 3.20!
<ochosi> i still have a broken env, but that's due to exo
<Unit193> bluesabre: Oh I had some sleep, but was recovering from a day prior.  Randomly woke up with some pain. :P
<Unit193> ochosi: Alrighty, copying over now then.
<bluesabre> ochosi, grab the newer exo from the ppa :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: yeah, i'm lagging behind...
 * ochosi updates the pkgs
<ochosi> yay, got a working env back
<bluesabre> if ochosi grabs the xfconf package from that ppa, he'll have even more breakage
<ochosi> Unit193: so yeah, whisker seems to work alright (haven't used more than the basic "search for app", "launch app" though)
<ochosi> yeah, xfconf is fun, i should really read that email from ali on the ML again reading what exactly he broke there
<ochosi> i'm not a huge fan of breaking stuff when it's supposed to be a 1:1 poprt
<ochosi> port
<Unit193> bluesabre: I'm pretty sure I removed that..
<Unit193> ochosi: Yeah that's good enough for me.
<bluesabre> Unit193, oh goodie
 * bluesabre doesn't want to be wrong, contemplates adding it back
<Unit193> bluesabre: apt-mark hold  is your friend. :P
<bluesabre> Unit193, indeed!
<nairwolf> hello everyone, I made a test recently on a daily image, and I've encounter this bug : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1614302
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1614302 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Ubiquity crash during installation (yakkety)" [Undecided,New]
<nairwolf> Have you noticed bugs related to Ubiquity recently ?
<nairwolf> When I'm seeing ubiquity's bug, it seems to have a lot of new bugs related to installation of the devel version
<nairwolf> And I see also two tests today of xubuntu daily : http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/360/builds/129347/testcases/1300/results
<Unit193> I did a while ago, found a workaround by running it as root (sudo ubiquity) :P
<Unit193> (I couldn't report it properly, apport kept erroring out.  Reported that one though.)
<nairwolf> I'm wondering if flocculant and akxwi-dave have made these tests in a VM or with a physical machine
<nairwolf> Unit193: oh, so, you're under the live session, you open a terminal and you run 'sudo ubiquity', that's enough ? 
<Unit193> I likely hit a different error though.
<flocculant> nairwolf: mostly vm - but on the 19th I killed this install and installed a new yak on hardware - worked perfectly ok for me
<flocculant> bluesabre: nominate yourself :p
<nairwolf> flocculant: okay, my bug was reported the 17th. Maybe I will try again this week
<nairwolf> I was really annoyed by this bug ^^
<nairwolf> Unit193: ok
<nairwolf> flocculant: in a french forum, someone has apparently encountered the same bug as me. I'm trying to understand what happened exactly
<flocculant> nairwolf: right
<flocculant> nairwolf: thing is - have you tried with a new iso?
<flocculant> 17th might have been when it was all about to go wrong
<flocculant> also - journal errors is full of apt_pkg.Error: E:Write error - write (32: Broken pipe)
<flocculant> looking at that journal error file, towards the end it's having issues with language packs
<nairwolf> flocculant: yes, as I said, I need to test again with a new iso. But not tonight. 
<flocculant> so I would try with a new iso, if it fails, try with the same iso but let it be US or UK rather than I assume French :)
<nairwolf> oh, no, the language pack was 'English'
<flocculant> mmk
<nairwolf> and you right, there is a lot of 'write error'. It's not impossible that it's my machine that caused this error
<flocculant> :)
<nairwolf> I wanted to verify if someone has tried to install yakkety-devel on hardware after the 17th
<flocculant> well I can verify that for sure :)
<nairwolf> As I'm seeing a lof of recent ubiquity bugs : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bugs?orderby=-id&start=0
<nairwolf> I was wondering if someone had encountered the same bug as me. 
<nairwolf> tomorrow, I will try with the new iso
<flocculant> the first on that list has the same issue "apt_pkg.Error: E:Errore di scrittura - write (32: Pipe interrotta)"
<nairwolf> indeed
<flocculant> seems like a few with the same issue indeed
<flocculant> all with langpack issues
<nairwolf> this one also : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1615642
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1615642 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "ubiquity crashed during installation" [Undecided,New]
<flocculant> yep
<nairwolf> flocculant: maybe I installed with french language, I don't remember exactly. That would be strange as I wanted to let my system in english. 
<flocculant> well it is for sure ok installing with gb 
 * flocculant has a go in french ... this will be fun ;)
<nairwolf> you have a go in french ? What does it mean ? 
<flocculant> that it is a good job I can install in automatic mode without reading what anything says :D
<flocculant> nairwolf: crashed :)
<nairwolf> oh, really ? 
<nairwolf> you tried that now ? 
<flocculant> what does this say? http://i.imgur.com/1D4Xpbo.png
<nairwolf> the installer has crashed
<nairwolf> we're sorry, the installer has crashed. When you'll close this window, we'll send a bug report, etc etc
<flocculant> oh crud
<flocculant> stupid french keyboard layout with a uk keyboard \o/
<nairwolf> you think having an uk keyboard is related ? 
<flocculant> no - I think that trying to use a french layout on a uk keyboard doesn't make entering e-mail and password very simple ... 
<nairwolf> ah ah ;)
<nairwolf> good luck ;)
<nairwolf> with french layout, you have 
<nairwolf> @ behind '0'
<meetingology> nairwolf: Error: "behind" is not a valid command.
<nairwolf> be quiet meetingology....
<flocculant> wow that was fun ... 
<nairwolf> flocculant: which vm software do you use ? virtualbox ? 
<flocculant> kvm/qemu
<nairwolf> oh, I'm stupid, I could have seen that ^^
<nairwolf> Never tried
<flocculant> right - now to fix the english with french keyboard text I wrote at bug 1615847
<ubottu> bug 1615847 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Ubiauity crashes zith non english setup" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1615847
<nairwolf> that's funny : 'crqshe zhile instqlling ) previously used i,qge to instqll ok ) set up previously zith enflish'
<flocculant> :)
<nairwolf> french keyboard uses 'azerty' as you're using qwerty
<nairwolf> you just have to change a->q and z->w
<nairwolf> and there is something weird with 'm', you have ',' if I remember exactly
<flocculant> nairwolf: couldn't be bothered to fiddle - waited till I could open it up again :)
<nairwolf> so you think there is a bug if we're using something else than english setup ?
<flocculant> yep for sure - thanks nairwolf :)
<flocculant> I've passed it along already :)
<nairwolf> I'm trying again with a vm actually
<nairwolf> just to be sure
<flocculant> set it up with french/french keyboard - I'm positive it will crash :)
<nairwolf> let me try firstly in english
<nairwolf> That's really surprening because I wanted to install the devel version in english setup (with french keyboard)
<flocculant> nairwolf: ok, so someone from Canonical has visited the bug I reported - I would guess it will get some traction - bit of an issue this :)
<flocculant> night all
<bluesabre> night flocculant 
<nairwolf> okay, my vm is too slow to finish the installation ^^
<nairwolf> that's great if you've identified the cause of this bug
<nairwolf> good night ! 
<nairwolf> oh, that's bad he quit right now ! 
<nairwolf> ubiquity has crashed also even with english language (but with french keyboard)
#xubuntu-devel 2016-08-23
<akxwi-dave> nairwolf.. mainly on VMs but with "Real" as well..   last week tested on real (before the network loss rebuilds and was a good install 
<ochosi> akxwi-dave, flocculant: hey! have either of you by any chance gotten back to the user dor1n already who got in touch via LP about helping with QA testing?
<akxwi-dave> ochosi:  i haven't .. but then again not seen that he had been in contact
<ochosi> k, wasn't sure, that's why i asked
<ochosi> i'll fwd you the mail
<akxwi-dave> cheers
<ochosi> np
<flocculant> ochosi: not seen that anywhere at all
<flocculant> ochosi: WERE DID THAT EVEN GET SENT TO?
<flocculant> oh oops :p
<flocculant> wasn't really shouting across La Manche :)
<nairwolf> hi, I've seen a yakkety beta 1 for Ubuntu and nothing for Xubuntu. That's weird because according the schedule, Beta 1 should be here the 25th August. 
<pleia2> we aren't doing a beta 1
<pleia2> it's up to the individual flavors whether these milestones are done
<flocculant> nairwolf: fix commited for the language issue 
<nairwolf> pleia2: oh, ok ;) For me Beta or Daily seems pretty much the same thing ;)
<flocculant> nairwolf: doubt if you saw a b1 for Ubuntu either :)
<nairwolf> flocculant: oh yes, I've received a mail from this bug, I don't have read it yet ;)
<nairwolf> that's great ;)
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> thqnks for pestering me on that :)
<flocculant> would no doubt have been dealt with - pretty sure that cypehermox had the issue as well
<nairwolf> yes, if all english users couldn't install Yakkety that would be sad ! 
<nairwolf> I'm downloading the daily, and I'm gonna test it after lunch
<flocculant> nairwolf: bear in mind that it's fix commited not fix released, so any issues *you* had will still be there
<nairwolf> oh, you right ! 
<nairwolf> so I need to wait some days to see that on the daily build
<flocculant> not always - but sometimes :p
<nairwolf> I thought it was really fast, that's why ^^
<nairwolf> I still can test with the live session anyway
<flocculant> well, iirc it has to go through -proposed first
<nairwolf> ok, ok
<Unit193> ochosi: New whisker, fixed for lesser GTK3!
<Unit193> knome: I'm still seeing new *.stream mailings.
<knome> hmmpf.
<Unit193> bluesabre: You slacker!
<bluesabre> hm what whaaaa? :o
#xubuntu-devel 2016-08-24
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: 32bit didn't build - rebuilding now
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: rebuilt in time - checked it boots, nothing else done though
<akxwi-dave> cheers flocculant will give them a bash
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: caught up now
<akxwi-dave> :-)
<nairwolf> hi, the bug with apt and ubiquity and non-english keyboard has been fixed and released, apparently ;)
<flocculant> nairwolf: then tomorrow the iso will have new versions of those packages
<nairwolf> I'm waiting for that ! 
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> you can check that it has updated packages beforehand of course
<nairwolf> flocculant: I've searched where I could find that, but I haven't found anything
<nairwolf> I was looking here : http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/
<nairwolf> but I can't find the current version of ubiquityin the daily build
<nairwolf> flocculant: okay, I've found it ;)
<nairwolf> that was easy ! 
<nairwolf> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/20160824/yakkety-desktop-amd64.manifest
<flocculant> except that's ubuntu :p
<flocculant> I usually look at buildlog, but I'm usually checking we built properly too https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cdimage/+livefs/ubuntu/yakkety/xubuntu
<flocculant> nairwolf: for the 'current' one - http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/current/yakkety-desktop-amd64.manifest
<nairwolf> oh, you right ;)
<nairwolf> and where can I find the list of all packages avaible with apt ? 
<nairwolf> does it exists somewhere ? 
<flocculant> well that would be the whole of the repositories
<flocculant> thousands and thousands and thousands of packages
<flocculant> 55802 listed in synaptic for yakkety
<nairwolf> I suppose that's here : http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/yakkety/
<nairwolf> I haven't said it would be small ;)
<flocculant> /var/lib/apt/lists/
<flocculant> now there's more than 3 monimations I'll set up civs :)
<knome> i was just wondering if we should set up civs on the xubuntu development server or if there was some reason why not to
<flocculant> knome: can't imagine there being much point tbh 
<knome> can be used for all subsequent xubuntu polls, is a central archive controlled by the team itself
<flocculant> mmm 
<flocculant> except it's all private
<knome> still, on a team server
<knome> but, just a thought
<flocculant> what I mean by private here is people's votes aren't known - not sure it needs to be archivable
<flocculant> what obviously does need to be archivable is the result 
<Unit193> Sounds like more effort than it's worth to me.
<flocculant> and the result's archived by mailman
<knome> Unit193, for a single vote, likely
<knome> the result that is posted by a single person to a mailing list
<knome> also, is there any reason not to make the results in civs public?
<flocculant> of course
<knome> which is?
<flocculant> it's a private poll - just like any other ubuntu council vote
<flocculant> nobodies business but yours who you vote for and in what order
<Unit193> 0_o
<knome> except the poll maintainers, again
<flocculant> poll maintainers don't see the votes by 'people' 
<knome> okay
<flocculant> at least didn't the last time I ran one, can't imagine they changed it 
<knome> me neither
<flocculant> knome: you has mail
<knome> ack
<flocculant> tell me when you've voted and I'll close it :)
<knome> done
<flocculant> http://civs.cs.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/results.pl?id=E_db57c4ef90122089
<flocculant> is all the poll maintainer sees :)
<flocculant> not voting lost completely :D
<flocculant> and http://civs.cs.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/control.pl?id=E_db57c4ef90122089&key=349fa483c50299b6&akey=96b8387c652c3912 is the link I got at the beginning
<flocculant> nothing wrong with linking that once the poll's closed either to the result if you want to archive that
<flocculant> but no-one else does 
<flocculant> ochosi: you has mail too :p
#xubuntu-devel 2016-08-25
<davmor2> flocculant: do you use kvm for emulation?
<flocculant> davmor2: yea
<davmor2> flocculant: try this out, install spice-client-gtk then add this to the end of you kvm line -spice port=5900,addr=127.0.0.1,disable-ticketing and then run spicy -h 127.0.0.1 -p 5900
<davmor2> flocculant: see how much better the rendering is
<davmor2> run spicy in a separate terminal obviously :)
<flocculant> davmor2: thanks - I only use emulatioon to check iso boots and smoketesting installs - it might render better, but I'd only notice for seconds :p
<flocculant> so glad no stressing over a beta
<davmor2> flocculant: theres a beta
<flocculant> apparently 
<flocculant> davmor2: so GSpice-Message: channel error: Could not connect to 127.0.0.1: Connection refused
<davmor2> flocculant: oh nice I wonder if I installed another package then
<davmor2> flocculant: what graphics stack are you using needs to be qxl
<davmor2> kvm -m 2048 -vga qxl -cpu host --soundhw ac97 -cdrom yakkety-desktop-i386.iso -hda ~/kvm-images/testhdd20.qcow2 -boot d -spice port=5900,addr=127.0.0.1,disable-ticketing
<flocculant> davmor2: makes no diff to not connecting 
<davmor2> flocculant: are you on yakkety already?
<flocculant> yea
<davmor2> I wonder if that is it, We have too many balls in the air right now for me to have the time to upgrade 
<flocculant> davmor2: no bother though - I only use it quickly - not that bothered about rendering for the time it takes me to do what I dod
<flocculant> davmor2: could be :)
<davmor2> flocculant: http://www.linux-kvm.org/page/SPICE that's where I got the info from
<davmor2> flocculant: for me it makes a huge difference
<flocculant> yea - if you're working in it I can imagine :)(
<flocculant> davmor2: thanks for thinking of me though :)
 * flocculant wanders off
<ochosi> flocculant: saw your mail, thanks for the reminder
<ochosi> i'm away over the weekend, but i'll try to get you a quick reply
<akxwi-dave> ochosi: I've spoken with dorin.. and pointed him inthe right direction
<ochosi> akxwi-dave: awesome!
<ochosi> let's hope we gained a contributor there
<ochosi> or: will
<akxwi-dave> fingers crossed
<flocculant> still no idea who this dorin is
<flocculant> ochosi: ack
<akxwi-dave> possible new tester mate..
<akxwi-dave> he contacted ochosi  on LP
<flocculant> yea I saw that - just never saw anything about it 
<flocculant> *shrug*
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: you're ball to play with too :)
<flocculant> talking of which, I'll pass this on to you https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/ReleaseNote
<flocculant> we'll be needing that in a month :p
<flocculant> ochosi: no panic re that :)
<flocculant> !team | I'll assume that no-one has issue with running vote from 29th August to 4th September as discussed in last meeting.
<ubottu> I'll assume that no-one has issue with running vote from 29th August to 4th September as discussed in last meeting.: akxwi-dave, bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
<pleia2> right-o
<flocculant> hey pleia2 :)
<pleia2> oh bother
<pleia2> hi flocculant :)
<flocculant> I could obviously start it earlier - day after nominations end
<knome> flocculant, that's good as long as we are friendly with the voting ending, eg. if half of the people did not vote before sept. 4, then send a friendly reminder and give a few days of grace period
<knome> not that i really see that happening, but just in case
<Unit193> bluesabre: Congrats on your SRU!
#xubuntu-devel 2016-08-26
<flocculant> knome: ack
<akxwi-dave> flocculant: Ack on that.. grab me at somepoint one night
<bluesabre> flocculant, no complaints here
<bluesabre> Unit193, yay!
<nairwolf> hi ;) Nice to see ubiquity and apt have been upgraded on yakkety, and nice to see that the intel driver has been updated to Xenial ;)
<flocculant> indeed it is nice to see the intel fix land
<flocculant> ubiquity and apt for yakkety are likely to see more changes - that's the wonder of using what others don't like to :p
<nairwolf> why are you seing others don't like it ? Nobody likes ubiquity and apt ? 
<flocculant> not at all what I meant
<nairwolf> can you re-say it differently, please ? 
<flocculant> we're half way through a dev cycle - ubiquity and apt will see more changes, that's what happens when you're using an un-released dev version of *buntu :)
<flocculant> nairwolf: yea I was trying to say it differently :)
<flocculant> so yea, nice to see bugs fixed - but don't assume that's it for yakkety 
<nairwolf> oh, ok, so I will stay vigilent ;)
<flocculant> cos skip button flies about all over the place for one thing ... 
<nairwolf> yes, yes ;)
<nairwolf> As you here, I've suspected a bug at Xenial. In fact, I have it from the first day of Xenial. And I have re-installed recently with 16.04.1 and I see these same weird behaviour. Do you think it's okay to write to xubuntu-users ml, and ask if someone has the same behaviour ? 
<flocculant> for sure
<nairwolf> ok
<flocculant> I'll see it there 
<nairwolf> the fact is, it's a little bit difficult to explain for me in english
<nairwolf> can I try to explain it to you here (or at #xubuntu) firstly ? 
<flocculant> probably best suited to #xubuntu, apart from anything others might have seen it, fixed it for themselves or others etc
<nairwolf> If you don't know this bug, I could ask at xubuntu-users, to see if someone has the same thing.
<nairwolf> ok
<nairwolf> so, I prefer to use the mailing-list because it's easier to watch messages from email.
<flocculant> nairwolf: if it's xenial I stopped using it when I moved to yakkety the day after xenial released
<flocculant> nairwolf: send it to the mailing list then :)
<flocculant> if it's hard to understand I'll ask there 
<nairwolf> by the way, I wanted to know how much instable it is to run a devel version
<flocculant> well 
<nairwolf> I wanted to use the devel version, but I'm afraid to have some days, an unstable system, and being unable to work correctly
<flocculant> generally pretty stable - I did last week have to revert to xenial for a couple of days
<nairwolf> I'm not enough confident to find workorounds if something breaks for example. 
<nairwolf> ok, when you have to revert, what do you do exactly ? 
<flocculant> nairwolf: dual boot - have a shared data area, if yak goes wrong - boot to xenial
<nairwolf> that would be the best solution for me ;)
<flocculant> revert = booting to xenial
<nairwolf> I should do that this week-end !
<nairwolf> ok, if it's dual boot, I'm able to do that. 
<flocculant> then find out - what's up - fix it in yak, carry on using it
<nairwolf> and yes, it makes sense ! 
<flocculant> nairwolf: that's what I do - though I usually have more like a triple or quad boot
<nairwolf> oh really ? 
<nairwolf> which other OS do you run ? 
<flocculant> eg I *might* have trusty/xenial/yak/yak2/yak3 
<flocculant> oh all xubuntu - just different version - depends on what I need to have around for testing, but I USE development release as my daily 
<nairwolf> that's great ;) 
<nairwolf> I should do the same thing ! At least use development release as my daily !
<nairwolf> the bug I'm concerned about is related to log-in log-out, so I need to quit the room. See you later my friend !
<flocculant> certainly more useful than milestone testing in my opinion - I've been talking about this for many cycles
<nairwolf> yeah, you right ! 
<nairwolf> sent ! 
<flocculant> aah yes - seen something about that - can't replicate - not sure if it was in users list or a bug right now
<flocculant> bbl
<nairwolf> oh, so I'm not alone ;)
<nairwolf> I have to see if it's happen in my second computer
<flocculant> yea not alone - but not including me ;)
<nairwolf> so, let's see if someone answers !
<nairwolf> my message is clear, at least ? 
<flocculant> yea
<nairwolf> so, I'm not alone, for sure ! 
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, Any plans to update catfish/mugshot/menulibre in debian currently?
#xubuntu-devel 2016-08-27
<bluesabre> Noskcaj, hopefully this weekend, but if you are interested, please go on ahead
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, mugshot updated in the svn, might need the disable clutter patch but otherwise good to go
<Noskcaj> i'll have a look at the other stuff tomorrow arvo
<flocculant> knome: didn't think about it during last meeting, but "vote mail out on 29th August with vote ending on 4th September" isn't a full week even lol
<flocculant> shall send it out tomorrow I guess
<knome> flocculant, ack
<nairwolf> it's time to upgrade my system to the devel version ;)
<bluesabre> Noskcaj, great, thanks!
<flocculant> nairwolf: lets hope it works then :p
<flocculant> hi bluesabre 
<nairwolf> yes, some people told me that using the same /home partition could create some issues with two OSes different
<nairwolf> for example, if there use different config files
<flocculant> could 
<nairwolf> but, I think it would not be a problem (or not frequent) because it's just the n+1 version, it stills Xubuntu, etc etc
<nairwolf> have you been annoyed by that ? 
<flocculant> not personally 
<flocculant> sometimes I get a mismatch on firefox versions - but that's just addons
<flocculant> and
<flocculant> I don't have a shared home either, I just have symlinks to ff/tbird and hexchat, data elsewhere
<nairwolf> oh, ok ;)
<flocculant> all my other data is on partitions/drives and added to fstab
<nairwolf> I can't do that, because I'm using a laptop with small space for my data. 
<flocculant> yup
<nairwolf> anyway, I think it should be okay
<flocculant> should be 
<nairwolf> I'm using backup daily
<nairwolf> and I shouldn't come back to the n-1 version often, so...
<flocculant> yea
<flocculant> I backup just after it all goes wrong - then forget about it till the next time :p
<nairwolf> ah ah ^^
<nairwolf> now, I'm using the dev version ;)
<bluesabre> hey flocculant 
<flocculant> spooky - I'd just sat here ...
<bluesabre> I know.
<bluesabre> O.O
<flocculant> stop kickin gthat football around then :|
<flocculant> too noisy 
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> can't believe we've all actually almost made it to a council :p
 * flocculant might forget to stop the poll after he starts it 
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> just got today's daily installed and set up
<bluesabre> looks like I need to nag ochosi_ about some greybird issues
<flocculant> I turned of the shimmer ppa
<flocculant> bluesabre: which particular issues?
<flocculant> on the whole it's all pretty stable at least - if we forget the no desktop at all issue :p
<bluesabre> weird things in general, login screen is unthemed, "Preferred Applications" seems to have the font not line up with the icons, each of the progress blips in the installer have a tiny bit of progress, sometimes checkboxes are grey, other times are white
<bluesabre> it does seem very stable
<bluesabre> which is reassuring
<flocculant> yes noticed the progree blips this morning actually
<flocculant> not noticed grey/white tbh
<flocculant> preferred apps looks ok to me - but old eyes ...
<bluesabre> I'll probably go through and screenshot and give ochosi_ a bunch of bug reports
<bluesabre> might be my font choice
<bluesabre> maybe a bug in fontconfig
<flocculant> bluesabre: did you not notice the wandering skip button when installing :p
<bluesabre> flocculant, don't think I saw that one
<flocculant> I was going to see if tiny bit of progress happened in ubuntu before I reported that - got a screeny ready
<bluesabre> :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: and I assume you've not got shimmer ppa?
<bluesabre> flocculant, not currently
<flocculant> http://i.imgur.com/iBQc5DH.png
<bluesabre> need to review each of those and make sure they build correctly
<flocculant> ok - just making sure - cos that breaks things a bit 
<bluesabre> my issue might actually be gtk3 ppa related https://i.imgur.com/FvFBFWP.png
<flocculant> oh yea - that's well out of line
<flocculant> must be if I can see it ;)
<bluesabre> judging by the headerbar there
<bluesabre> probably a bug I created tbh :D
<flocculant> lol
<flocculant> I'd not added that one yet 
<flocculant> or rather not added it locally - have a vm with it
<bluesabre> probably wise
<flocculant> though happy to check it out when asked of course
<bluesabre> goodie
<bluesabre> probably not going to pull in any gtk3 components for yakkety, but might start with z
<flocculant> bluesabre: what font is that though - can check that first I guess
 * flocculant uses noto sans 
<flocculant> bluesabre: z works for QA :D
<bluesabre> Fira Sans 10, https://launchpad.net/~bluesabre/+archive/ubuntu/fonts/+files/fonts-fira-sans_0.01+git-0~26fb0a2_all.deb
<flocculant> oh right some random thing :D
<bluesabre> flocculant, indeed, I'm sure you're not bothered by that at all ;)
<flocculant> bluesabre: I will still be hanging around - just really need a rest from beating my head on that wall :p
<bluesabre> understandably
<bluesabre> maybe get some spackle and patch the hole you've left there
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> ooh - -brb - that font's doing funky stuff 
<bluesabre> :D
 * bluesabre causes trouble
<flocculant> not sure what that's all about
<flocculant> could be out of line - REALLY hard to tell :p
<flocculant> http://i.imgur.com/Z7U1dDl.png
 * flocculant does a shrug and moves swiftly back 
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> thats fira sans light
<bluesabre> should be a regular option there somewhere, not that you'll ever be able to see again
<bluesabre> or
<bluesabre> "Thin"
<bluesabre> it seems
<bluesabre> hard to read ;)
<flocculant> oh right ... 
<flocculant> got it - pref apps looks fine here still
<bluesabre> cool
<bluesabre> so its greybird or exo, caused by me or ochosi :D
<flocculant> well - it's something caused by someone that's not installed here :p
<flocculant> if you want I can add the gtk ppa and check that here
<bluesabre> nah, don't worry about it
<flocculant> okey doke 
<flocculant> bluesabre: when we get to beta, I'm going to let Dave decide for QA what position to take on release
<bluesabre> flocculant, sounds good to me
<flocculant> I'll still jump up and down for RC and final this time
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> release tantrums are the best tantrums
<flocculant> heh
<flocculant> bluesabre: glad wqe got that sru finally, couldn't confirm the issue on trusty - but given only a few months left anyway 
<flocculant> I think ...
<flocculant> I still got a mild dislike of thunar though lol
<bluesabre> flocculant, indeed, surprised it actually moved along without issue
<flocculant> yea
<flocculant> feel a bit to blame there - should have put my foot down at release 
<bluesabre> flocculant, yeah... thunar isn't getting better (even in y), and I'm not opposed to moving to a different file manager, but that suggestion tends to rock the boat a bit
<flocculant> yea 
<flocculant> I understand *why*
<flocculant> just believe that if we moved on then the fault(s) might get looked at more 
<flocculant> though I don't know that for sure
<bluesabre> yeah
<flocculant> I can understand that it's pretty much core xfce, but on the other hand we're not xfce, we're xubuntu
 * bluesabre agrees
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> I guess at the end of the day - I take the problems more personally - cos I sign it off as ok from qa perspective - even though I don't want to and know it's broken
<flocculant> but heyho - I get to not worry soon :)
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> I can watch Dave's hair fall out :p
<flocculant> if he's got any that is 
<akxwi-dave> not alot of it.. even less now its been cut this morning
<knome> :)
<flocculant> setting yourself up for a fall then :p
<akxwi-dave> also re the file manager.. must admit I usually prefer nautilus
<flocculant> I prefer pcmanfm
<flocculant> well that's not quite true - I prefer thunar - but it's fighting back :)
<flocculant> at least my main file manger problem is agnostic :D
<flocculant> can't eject usb3
<flocculant> and it stay ejected ...
<akxwi-dave> well same here.. been using thunar mainly in the last few cycles....  only swap to nautilus now for when connecting to windows networks
#xubuntu-devel 2016-08-28
<flocculant> poll started 
<flocculant> bluesabre ochosi_ bug 1617705
<ubottu> bug 1617705 in greybird-gtk-theme (Ubuntu) "Unstarted installation indicators show tiny amount of progress" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1617705
<flocculant> I checked ubuntu just to be sure ...
<flocculant> bluesabre: unfortunately, bug 1617711 also
<ubottu> bug 1617711 in greybird-gtk-theme (Ubuntu) "Resize screen hard to read" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1617711
<nairwolf> hi flocculant ;) I'm also affected by this bug : Bug #1617705
<ubottu> bug 1617705 in greybird-gtk-theme (Ubuntu) "Unstarted installation indicators show tiny amount of progress" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1617705
<nairwolf> the others you've seen on iso.qa.ubuntu.com, I need to pay more attention to see them
<flocculant> nairwolf: morning :)
<flocculant> yes you will be affected - it's on the iso ;)
<flocculant> 2 of the 4 I listed today will be seen for anyone I think - the skip button ones
<flocculant> the other 2 are greybird related
<nairwolf> yes, it was just to tell you, I add my name on the bug report. You know, where it asks if this bug affect you
<flocculant> aah ok :)
<nairwolf> yep
<flocculant> bluesabre: re parole/clutter - not sure if I said previously, but bug 1462445 appears gone on yakkety
<ubottu> bug 1462445 in Clutter "Gtk applications start with blank screen (Clutter 1.22.4 and GtkClutter 1.6.2)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1462445
<bluesabre> flocculant, I think we disabled clutter again on xenial/yakkety
<bluesabre> (seems so when I check)
<flocculant> bluesabre: yes - but I changed parole's prefs to clutter and restarted it
<bluesabre> oh
<bluesabre> nice :D
<flocculant> from what I can see - changelog was just a setting thing 
<bluesabre> flocculant, guessing you have parole from https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/ppa ?
<flocculant> yep
<bluesabre> cool
<bluesabre> thanks for checking that 
<bluesabre> I'd lost all hope in clutter :D
<flocculant> well - I'd looked previously I'm sure - couldn't remember telling you - obviously I didn't :p
<flocculant> bluesabre: I left a special comment on 1617711 for you to laugh at
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> with my eyes and general "feeling old", I'm starting to think that being young means early 20s and below
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<flocculant> it's all in the mind - till things stop working as well as they did :p
<bluesabre> :)
<knome_> flocculant, poll says simon davis
<knome> flocculant, not SEAN davis
<knome> flocculant, do we want to scracth and start from beginning, or just go ahead anyway?
<knome> bluesabre, since you're the subject of the question... ^
<flocculant> oh boo - copy paste fail
<flocculant> leave it up to bluesabre - lp is right though
<flocculant> knew I should have just used nicks ...
<flocculant> edited poll description re that
<knome> pleia2, hullo
<pleia2> o/ knome 
<pleia2> got stuck replying to a mailing list thread :)
<knome> :)
<knome> i used 10 minutes to write up some thoughts i want to go through....
<knome> http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-marketing-august-2016
<pleia2> cool, looking
<pleia2> doh, I just realized that the new thread was continuing on the one I replied to just now...
<pleia2> should have read all before blabbering :)
<knome> sure, wfm
<knome> oh
<knome> heh
<knome> nvm...
<knome> so tell me when and where do you want to start...
 * pleia2 shakes her head at using distrowatch as an accurate evaluation of install base
<knome> lol
<knome> well
<knome> there is no accurate evaluation anywhere
<knome> so in a way distrowatch is just as good as amount of twitter followers
<knome> granted, neither of them is a good evaluation
<pleia2> it's worse than twitter, I never go to distrowatch, it's for people who switch distros a lot
 * knome shrugs
<pleia2> anyway
<knome> i really don't care...
<knome> :)
<pleia2> these threads didn't go where I wanted them to
<pleia2> maybe we should work to more clearly define what the marketing team is for
<knome> and what we mean with "marketing"
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> or maybe change the team name
<pleia2> perhaps
<knome> otoh, there are many types of marketing
<knome> the person on the thread tended to think that always implies active outreach and a goal to get more users
<knome> which is one of the potential goals
<knome> but not necessarily the one we are pursuing
<pleia2> agreed
<knome> but this goes beyond the marketing team too... maybe the team should discuss why they are working for xubuntu
<knome> if most of us say we do it because we want as many people to use xubuntu (specifically), then maybe we should reconsider our marketing as well
<knome> and the way we decide about defaults etc.
<pleia2> it's also about building a community, being excited about what other people are doing, making clear that we're not just messing around here, it's a serious operating system being used for real things
<knome> indeed
<knome> so far, i've sensed the ideology behind xubuntu is more like "let's do something we believe in and people will come to us" rather than actively seeking new users from all kinds of caves
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> that doesn't mean that we are doing decisions for ourselves only though
<pleia2> I want to do marketing because if people want the information, they have it and can join us, but I won't convert the world
<knome> if we were, i'm pretty sure we would have synaptic installed by default...
<pleia2> no gui at all!
<knome> haha
<knome> okay
<pleia2> for package installing, I mean
<knome> so shall we go to the pad
<pleia2> I like pictures
<pleia2> yes
<knome> #lovexubuntu first then
<pleia2> I'd like to start with the last item
<pleia2> Â Â Â  â Action: Repost stuff
<knome> sure
<pleia2> my proposal is to create a spot on the wiki to put these stories
<knome> okay
<knome> without moderation?
<pleia2> then do another push on social media about submitting them, with real examples
<knome> right
<pleia2> well, we put them on the wiki
<knome> what about a blog article instead?
<pleia2> blog could be in addition to
<pleia2> maybe highlighting a couple stories a week
<knome> well, we'd better get up to speed in receiving the stories then
<pleia2> I don't know exactly how many we have, 6 or so?
<knome> the reason i'm pointing to blog is because we can make it look much better much easier
<knome> and it's also aggregated to planet ubuntu
<knome> so it gets all that fuzz going (maybe)
<knome> wiki is kind of... i don't know, hidden-ish
<pleia2> so here's what I'm thinking: 1) copy all current ones to the wiki 2) each week, blog about 2 of them and ask for more 3) social media these things
<knome> what's the main point of 1)
<knome> the wiki is mostly contributor-facing outlet by our definition, so we don't want to point users there
<pleia2> organizing them for when we select winners
<pleia2> helps my brain
<knome> okay, that's a good argument
<knome> sure, we can do that
<knome> do we want it in public or private?
<pleia2> no harm in making them public
<knome> ok
<pleia2> but I do think it would be for us/team
<pleia2> you're right, blog is user facing
<knome> well, we have the team area on wiki if we want to make them private
<knome> and it's very easy to publish them later
<pleia2> yeah, I don't think that's needed
<pleia2> no reason to hide them
<knome> oki oki
<knome> do you want to take that action item?
<pleia2> sure
<knome> we could prepare some of the blog articles, and we can even schedule them
<pleia2> yeah, sounds good
<pleia2> also, I think we end the competition at the end of September
<knome> ok
<knome> ^^ but maybe leave that for after going through the other stuff
<pleia2> yeah
<flocculant> not particularly my bag but "but this goes beyond the marketing team too... maybe the team should discuss why they are working for xubuntu" makes some sense to me
 * flocculant wanders off again
<pleia2> it might be nice to see some team profiles that ask that question
<pleia2> but now I'm getting distracted
 * pleia2 refocus on etherpad
<knome> let's get back to that later...
<knome> because there might be something touching that
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> oh my
<knome> the flyer is in some "state" too
<knome> "_new" files here
<pleia2> this whole topic is like "OH GOD OH GOD"
<pleia2> ;)
<knome> i think that might be some cleanup
 * pleia2 hugs the poor flyer
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> ugh.
<knome> ok, i'll grin my teeth and fix that TOO today
<pleia2> thanks :\
<knome> ok, too small page padding
<knome> ...in the "new" version
<knome> anyway
<knome> what do we do with the content?
<pleia2> ?
<knome> nvm, graphic issues, i'll sort it out...
<pleia2> ok
<knome> so re: translations, even if that is the last item
<pleia2> I'll make it a priority to start reviewing content for updates once you're ready
<knome> we have a Makefile
<knome> you can review content already
<pleia2> alright
<knome> i'm only touching the graphic side
<knome> so the Makefile makes .pot 
<knome> and that could be used by Launchpad to create .po
<knome> and those could be used to make translated versions of the flyer
<pleia2> I'll create bugs when I find issues so I can keep track of them like a grown up
<knome> ...except that we still need to manually make sure the flow is ok
<pleia2> yeah, that can be tricky
<knome> i remember looking at making that work with scribus
<knome> ...and i probably stills hould
<knome> that might make the work on the content being okay easier
<pleia2> have you built these lately?
<knome> no
<pleia2> me neither
<knome> but the content hasn't changed lately
<knome> so we're okay
<pleia2> probably should do on xenial
<pleia2> still, tooling versions changed
<knome> yeah
<pleia2> pdftk and stuff
<knome> builds okay on 16.04
<knome> and uses the "new" style
<knome> so huh, i can probably get on with less work
<pleia2> :)
 * knome checks state of launchpad
<pleia2> less work is my favorite kind of work
<knome> oh, ok
<knome> no "new" stuff on launchpad
<knome> hooray
<pleia2> phew
<knome> that means more work though
<knome> :D
<knome> anyway
<pleia2> well, you should just be able to merge your local changes, right?
<knome> the problem that we might have with scribus is automated process
<pleia2> yeah :\
<knome> yes, but the fact that i have two sets of files that aren't pushed to the main branch might mean it's WIP and not pushed for that reason
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> so i need to check that
<knome> and that might take a while
<knome> but it's ok, i'll just do it anyway
<pleia2> ty <3
<knome> but the content
<knome> we have libreoffice already
<knome> but we also have a few bugs
<pleia2> screenshots should be updated for Xenial
<knome> that's fine, we have them on website so i can snatch from there
<pleia2> and I might want to adjust some wording here and there now that I have a base to work on and some fresh eyeballs
<knome> https://bugs.launchpad.net/xubuntu-marketing/+bug/1501113
<pleia2> like the description on the front page is too much
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1501113 in Xubuntu marketing materials "Wily flyer problems" [Undecided,New]
<knome> you might want to take a look at that then...
<pleia2> yeah, I just looked at bugs a bit ago
<knome> okay, apparently there is a way to convert .sla (scribus) to .pdf from command line
<pleia2> neat
<knome> but then there's the translation automation
<pleia2> I know nothing about that :(
<knome> me neither
<knome> but my friend google might
<pleia2> hehe
<knome> ok, so i'll look at all that
<knome> i don't even mind what format the updated content is in
<knome> i'll figure out how i want to do the new version
<knome> do we think those small facelift items are enough at this point?
<pleia2> I think so
<knome> okay
<pleia2> seems to be a pretty solid flyer still overall
<knome> yep, it's pretty good
<knome> translated versions would be nice
<knome> so onto the website
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> the first three items under visual/feature updates are fine, i'll do them, but do we have other things to fix/update
<pleia2> ok
<knome> well i guess the search bit is a question
<knome> but i'll make sure we can enable that if we want
<pleia2> sounds good to me
 * pleia2 looks at the feature tour
<pleia2> so we should update those inline screenshots to be a pair from our current wallpaper selection
<pleia2> update references to 14.04
<pleia2> I think it's ok otherwise really, it's still pretty and stuff
<knome> okay
<knome> (meh.)
<knome> doesn't look like scribus really supports translating documents
<knome> or it's very hidden
<pleia2> bummer
<knome> well you can import stuff from .txt file
<knome> but that's not *really* what we are looking for
<knome> so one idea for you when reconsidering the flyer
<knome> if you didn't finish that already :P
<pleia2> didn't
<knome> we might want to drop some of the small-text portions to make the available space and layout more predictable for translations
<knome> even if that meant more whitespace
<pleia2> ok, consider it considered :)
<knome> also, i might do something as crazy as using only one file for outputting to both USletter/A4, so potentially more padding
<knome> not sure if that's possible though
<knome> but i'd really want to move to one source file (per page) only
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> or maybe per flyer
<knome> :P
<pleia2> letter/a4?
<pleia2> I mean, are those each of the flyers you're talking about?
<knome> yeah
<knome> well
<knome> actually, i'm imagining something like
<knome> only keep one file as a REAL source
<knome> so A4 on one svg, with both pages laid there
<knome> then have another template file for letter, and put the text there with some method
<knome> currently text changes need to be made to both separately
<knome> which is the thing i want to avoid the most
<knome> and with that, putting in translations would be 50% of the work it is now
<pleia2> as long as we still have clear instructions (or Makefile) as to how to generate each, I'm fine
<knome> yes yes, the Makefile would take care of that
<pleia2> good
<knome> because if the work would be manual, then it would be just as good as two source files
<pleia2> right
<knome> (or as bad really)
<pleia2> and I'd never want to look at it because ugh, forgot how to do ;)
<knome> the thing why i'd like scribus is better text flow and column management
<knome> on scribus, you can actually add a special character that tells scribus to go to the next column
<knome> so you don't have to worry about flowing too much content somewhere
<knome> but...
<knome> let's get moving
<knome> what about "about xubuntu"?
<pleia2> website?
<knome> yep
<knome> it's been a bit abandoned as long as i remember
 * pleia2 looks
<knome> eg. from 2008
<pleia2> oh yes, that is a very boring page :(
 * pleia2 reads
<knome> indeed!
<knome> the first section has been pretty much the same for 8 years
<pleia2> as a first step, content seems solid, but making it pretty like the tour would be nice
<knome> we could potentially replace it with one link to the ubuntu philosophy
<knome> and i actually think we could move some of the content from the flyer here
<pleia2> agreed
<knome> like, mention xfce
<pleia2> heh, right
<knome> also
<knome> http://docs.xubuntu.org/1604/user/C/what-is-xubuntu.html
<pleia2> I suppose "Xubuntu is a community developed, GNU/Linux based Free/Open Source operating system" is a bit blah blah blah to mortals
<knome> yes
<knome> so is most of the first section
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> we need some more non-nerd people on this team
<knome> so as i said, we could just add a link to the ubuntu philosophy
<knome> and fix that section with that
<knome> can we fix this page right now?
<knome> i'll take the edit lock.
<pleia2> sure
<pleia2> so sec
<knome> and we'll obviously do the changes live, as all professional website admisn
<pleia2> I'd like to grab the short intro from our what-is-xubuntu.html docs, 
<pleia2> to replace the first sentence
<knome> btw, side-stepping, but ugh
<pleia2> delete the second sentence and put the Ubuntu philosophy link under Ideals behind...
<knome> wordpress now supports "native fonts", making the interface look more "native"
<pleia2> non-innovation
<knome> eg. it forces the ubuntu font everywhere
<pleia2> heh
<knome> i so need to overwrite this with a stylish script
<knome> ugh ugh ugh
<knome> link to ubuntu wiki
<pleia2> :\
<pleia2> yeah
<pleia2> strat doc
<knome> xubuntu is a what to ubuntu
<knome> not subteam
<pleia2> flavor of
<knome> part of the broader ubuntu community?
<knome> eh.
<knome> As a part of the broader Ubuntun community, the Xubuntu community is built around the ideals enshrined in the Ubuntu Philosophy.
<knome> -n
<knome> or something else?
<pleia2> that's good :)
<knome> so let me read what you said before
<knome> ok, first update done
<pleia2> much better
<pleia2> actually, I think this is plenty, just add pretty colors
<pleia2> a la tour ;)
<knome> haha
<knome> oh my
<knome> we need something
<knome> which is
<knome> docs.xubuntu.org/current/
<knome> which is a symlink
<knome> see where i'm going here?
<pleia2> ah, good idea
<pleia2> just need to remember to update it
<knome> i'll just expect that it exists
<pleia2> I can make it
<knome> thanks
<knome> oh wow
<knome> nice feature in wordpress
<knome> select some text
<knome> and paste an url
<knome> it becomes a link
<knome> not fail the content
<knome> i accidentally did that...
<pleia2> k, haz /current
<knome> better?
<pleia2> yes :)
<knome> or do we want some color-color?
<pleia2> maybe some color
<knome> white -> generic
<knome> green -> new/fresh
<knome> red -> important/warning
<knome> blue -> sth
<knome> pink -> community(?)
<pleia2> I like heading of green, then blue in ideals
<knome> the blue one says "Highlight: Blue c" which looks like i've just saved and forgot to write the rest there.
<pleia2> heh
<knome> ok, done
<pleia2> I like it :D
<knome> good
<knome> what's next
<knome> ok, the press page
<pleia2> I think it's fine
<pleia2> I mean
<pleia2> do need to add some 16.04 articles :)
<pleia2> and fix my name (Elizabeth K. Joseph)
<pleia2> I can add the articles today
<knome> ok, but the problem isn't that you need more help with it?
<knome> name fixed
<knome> and added simon's blog
<knome> and made the list ordered by last name
<pleia2> I probably just need to make it a priority, i was nice when folks were giving me links though
<knome> yep
<knome> were you subbed to some google news alert?
<pleia2> yeah, still am
<knome> oh my
<pleia2> just have had a lot of my plate, things are better now
<pleia2> slightly
<knome> there's something i figured i should do
<knome> from a release taxonomy term (eg. a single release), make it possible to link to the press area
<pleia2> hm?
<knome> in http://xubuntu.org/news/release/14-04/, add a link to the appropriate place in the press area
<knome> or what better, link the press stuff directly to the releases
<knome> which is really what we should do
<pleia2> ah
<pleia2> isn't that just an autogenerated thing from articles?
<knome> yes and no
<pleia2> okie :)
<knome> the releases are a new custom taxonomy
<knome> the release/eol dates are custom fields for the taxonomy
<pleia2> so you can edit the text at the top of the page then?
<knome> yes
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> that's the term description
<pleia2> gotcha
<knome> and the EOL releases are automatically figured out for the sidebar "releases" section
<pleia2> I think that would be valuable
<knome> indeed
<knome> and that would make adding the links easier
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> you have played with the wordpress links UI, right?
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> ...yeah
<knome> so put the press stuff into that
<knome> and automatically gather the ones that are linked to the release taxonomy
<pleia2> that would be better than manual <strong> etc
<knome> much better
<knome> and then the release pages could be *so much* more useful
<pleia2> yep :)
<knome> but at that point, re: our discussion some time ago
<knome> should we also show download links as long as the release isn't EOL?
<knome> and potentially "other links"
<knome> like "documentation"
<pleia2> how hard is that to maintain?
<pleia2> I guess we just have a checklist when something is EOL
<knome> no
<pleia2> like with releases
<knome> well, yeah
<knome> if date > EOL_DATE, don't show
<knome> esy
<knome> easy too
<pleia2> oh, even better :)
<knome> so that's the non-problem part
<knome> well there is no problem part
<knome> the only maintaining part is to add the link there once
<knome> and maybe 1-4 times more for LTS point releases
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> but i can figure that out
<pleia2> alright :)
<knome> i really like the idea of "this is all things xubuntu 14.04"
<pleia2> me too
<knome> okay, i'll put this on the TODO list
<pleia2> great
<knome> so what then
<knome> oh right, content stuff
<knome> or, the real marketing stuff
<knome> :P
<knome> there was discussion about some more "small details" types of posts
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> do we just extend the current series, or create a new one?
 * pleia2 refreshmemory
<pleia2> extend
<knome> the current one is kind of linked to 16.04
<knome> it covers stuff that has changed since 14.04 and other stuff we wanted to highlight again
<knome> i'm okay with extending too though
<pleia2> that's ok
<knome> let's send an email to the devel list to ask if people think there are subjects we should cover
<pleia2> sounds good
<knome> do you want to take that item or should i?
<pleia2> I can do it
<knome> ta
<knome> (i just bolded the actions)
<knome> well, some of them
<knome> so the faq stuff is kind of sameish, but what do we do with it?
<knome> do we just consider that idea dead?
<knome> or do we want to try to write new articles for each release again?
<pleia2> maybe, unless someone wants to pick it up
<knome> ok
<knome> so the next one probably needs some introduction
<knome> well, you likely know the AMA stuff on reddit
<knome> so, would we like to do something similar to that with xubuntu contributors?
<knome> that could be *one way* of introducing the "human" side of xubuntu to others
<pleia2> like, interviews?
<knome> kind of, but community-ridden in a way
<knome> in the AMA reddits, people can ask whatever they want from (usually) a celebrity
<knome> and they answer whichever questions they want to answer
<knome> so, instead of making the questions something we think people want to know answers to, let the people ask the questions
<pleia2> ah
<pleia2> who are the people? :)
<knome> we can do that person-by-person, or just monthly/bi-monthly with the whole team replying
<knome> people is anybody
<knome> so basically that needs social media shouting too
<pleia2> do we do it per person, like "this week, ask questions of the tech lead!" or?
<knome> see above ^
<pleia2> oh, derp
<knome> so could be by person, but i don't think we'd have enough questions
<pleia2> agreed
<knome> so maybe do once a month or two, then make anybody who is concerned reply
<knome> and we can also include questions we hear on #xubuntu
<knome> it doesn't need to be only questions that are specifically sent to us for this purpose
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> that could be a nice way to interact with people
<pleia2> we can seed it with some basic questions
<knome> and have some kind of easyish way to have constantly updated content
<pleia2> and include the name/nickname of people who ask the questions, since people like to see their name on things
<knome> yes, indeed
<knome> and i guess we can include some silly questions too
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> not too many, but like one or two per month
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> "Pasi asked: Pie or cake?"
<pleia2> hehe
<pleia2> obvs cake
<knome> because again, we probably want to add to the "human" side
<pleia2> right
<knome> also, re: non-nerds on team
<knome> maybe people think we are nerds because they don't know anything about us ;)
<knome> or maybe they think we are paid by canonical 
<pleia2> I think they think we are nerds because we spend our free time updating the About Xubuntu page
<knome> well, we didn't use much our free time - or any time - to do that for the last 8 years
<knome> :D
<pleia2> haha
<pleia2> ok, I'm totally not a nerd
<knome> i don't know what people thought about the "what's your favorite music" thing on the media player series, but i liked how it made the issue a bit less serious
<pleia2> alright, so I think this is a fun idea
<pleia2> yeah, me too
<knome> so maybe we should plan it a bit further
<knome> i'll either set up another pad or formulate it in a better way and send to mailing list
<pleia2> wfm
<pleia2> the rest of this chat has put a lot on my plate for immediate stuff anyway
<knome> yep...
<knome> my hands are itching to make the release pages work better
<knome> even if it's hard work and meh
<pleia2> I'm excited about that too
<knome> good :D
<knome> so the single articles
<knome> the first one popped into my head today
<knome> i don't know if that's realistic, but..
<pleia2> frirst one re: MOTU, ok, whatever, sure :)
<knome> bluesabre, "Promote Xubuntu as a stepping stone for MOTU candidates"
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> bluesabre, would you be willing/interested in writing an article about that?
<knome> what about the other?
<pleia2> Xubuntu Council should be an article, maybe just link to their profiles somewhere, or have each member submit a blurb about something
<pleia2> I did full interviews of the CC members a while back, with the old CC
<knome> doesn't really need to be full interviews
<knome> again just some human side
<pleia2> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2015/04/22/interview-with-yokozar-of-the-ubuntu-community-council/
<knome> "the council is actually three real persons"
<pleia2> (that's the last article in the series, links to all the others)
<knome> yeah, i noticed them, that's nice :)
<knome> and faces!
<pleia2> yeah :)
<pleia2> but like, picture + blurb for this would be nice
<knome> yep
<knome> point people to profiles somewhere else is meh
<pleia2> fair enough
<pleia2> people can google anyway ;)
<knome> yes, and we can do that *too*
<knome> but a blog article that mostly points elsewhere (we already have to link to the XSD) is stupid
<pleia2> haha
<knome> so we need to have some content too
<pleia2> k
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> if it's original, even better
<pleia2> so, introduction about why/what the council, then 3 blurbs+photos from each of the sitting council members
<knome> (even if it was silly, like to find out if the council likes pie or cake more)
<knome> yes
<knome> oh heh, you are using the real list bullets
<knome> i'm just doing this the old-school way
<pleia2> troublesome of me, I know
<pleia2> I think we should wait on this until after release
<knome> except using an ndash isn't oldschool
<pleia2> give the council time to settle in
<knome> wfm
<pleia2> and have a release under our blet
<pleia2> belt too
<knome> yup
<knome> oh wow
<knome> the release feature code is almost 300 lines already
<pleia2> x_x
<knome> go us
<pleia2> lol
<knome> so the last item
<knome> how do we want to do that?
<pleia2> do what?
<knome>     â Action: Communicate the purpose of the marketing team more clearly (blog article?)
<knome> one possibility is to try to write something in the contributor docs
<knome> we have some of it, like the marketing target audience, in the wiki
<knome> but again, the wiki is kind of hidden
<knome> i feel like
<knome> we have all this new, cool looking, visually consistent stuff
<knome> let's use it
<pleia2> :)
<pleia2> we should probably first focus on the contrib docs
<pleia2> then develop a blog post from that
<pleia2> since as far as I can tell, we don't clearly articulate this anywhere yet
<knome> works for me
<knome> http://wiki.xubuntu.org/marketing/start
<knome> -> marketing audience is there
<knome> but not about what the marketing team is here for
<knome> or the marketing strategies mentioned with the audience
<pleia2> right
<knome> so yeah
<knome> i'll pass the main responsibility of that to you
<knome> and hide
<knome> ;)
<knome> and i retweeted your tweet
 * pleia2 was just picking up her phone to see what the noise meant
<pleia2> :D
<knome> ignore the phones
<pleia2> lol
<knome> i do that probably a bit too often
<knome> ...and also throw them on the floor too often as well
<knome> like, actively do that
<knome> :X
<knome> pleia2, this is a mess that needs extending: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-y-marketing
<knome> :P
<pleia2> alright, I'll fix that too
<knome> so btw
<knome> once we make the release pages even more useful
<knome> we might want to link to them more prominently
<knome> maybe show non-EOL releases under the get xubuntu menu
 * knome is making himself hard times
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> haha
<knome> oh, this is too easy
<knome> well, hopefully
<knome> wordpress might directly support adding the same taxonomy for links
<knome> at least you can do that for any post types
<knome> or in other words
 * knome sighs
<pleia2> :)
<knome> we can add that taxonomy for media
<knome> meaning
<knome> we can attach all screenshots of the release to the page as well
<knome> i'm not sure if links have taxonomies actually
<knome> ...but i'll make it work
<pleia2> alright
 * knome is overwhelmed
<knome> it's all positive though
<pleia2> right now we pretty much just delete/make inaccessible old screenshots, right?
<knome> we move them to the archive
<knome> --> https://xubuntu.org/screenshots/archive/
<knome> currently means 14.04
<knome> but we could show those with the release too
<pleia2> oh
<knome> so no need for that archive
<pleia2> I see
<knome> INDEED!
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> and it's really easy
<knome> just add one item to an array
<knome> ...
<knome> (and handle showing them, but that's the easiest thing)
<knome> or at least relatively trivial
<knome> let's see
<knome> oh yeah
<knome> i've already linked one screenshot to the release on the staging site
<knome> now just show it
<pleia2> :)
<knome> i need to start documenting this code
<knome> haha, ok
<knome> so the attachments from posts that have the release are now shown
<knome> but not the media that has the release
<knome> >___<
<knome> actually, that's not even true
<knome> the attachments are randomish
<knome> maybe i'm doing something wrong
<knome> better!
<knome> will beautify even further, but: http://staging.xubuntu.org/news/release/14-04/
<pleia2> yay screenshots
<knome> yummy, better :D
<knome> next the links...
<knome> oh meh, might have to register new post type for the press links
<pleia2> links as a post type?
<knome> yes...
<pleia2> kk
<knome> as you really can't add a custom taxonomy for the links post type
<knome> for some weird reason
<knome> it only ever allows the link category taxonomy
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> which is silly btw
<knome> this would have been a breeze without that limitation
<knome> but i guess the thing is they are going to want to fade out the link post type anyway
<knome> they don't show the links manager on new installations
<pleia2> ah, interesting
<knome> yes and no :)
<knome> i don't think most people ever use that feature
<knome> they just create a navigation menu and put custom links there
<knome> and it makes sense
<knome> ...except when you want to bind your links to taxonomies
<pleia2> right
<knome> most people don't want to
<knome> the alternative to this would be to make the release taxonomy linked with a certain link category, but that would be ugly
<knome> i mean that would mean you'd have to create two taxonomy terms, one for releases and one for links, then link them
<knome> >___<
<pleia2> heh
<pleia2> hmm, can't find one of the links I had for xubuntu 16.04
<knome> oh noes!
<pleia2> have http://news.softpedia.com/news/xubuntu-16-04-lts-and-lubuntu-16-04-lts-released-get-three-years-of-support-503348.shtml & http://fossforce.com/2016/05/down-dirty-look-xubuntu-16-04/
 * pleia2 will search for a bit
<pleia2> http://www.linuxtechi.com/definitive-guide-to-install-xubuntu-16-04-lts/
<pleia2> http://www.debugpoint.com/2016/05/a-quick-look-at-the-xubuntu-16-04-lts-feature-tour/
<pleia2> http://news.softpedia.com/news/xubuntu-16-04-1-lts-released-upgrade-path-from-xubuntu-14-04-lts-now-open-506582.shtml
<pleia2> that's a pretty good start
<pleia2> I'll dump this in the pad so I have it for later
<knome> okay
<pleia2> where should we put the stories on the wiki?
<pleia2> can stash it under /marketing
<knome> yep, somewhere there
<pleia2> maybe /marketing/lovexubuntu and /2016?
<knome> wfm
<pleia2> k
 * knome is not the wiki structuring dictator
<pleia2> :)
 * pleia2 mutters about wiki syntax
<knome> it's almost moin!!
<knome> ok, you can make a difference now
<knome> what kind of data do we want to track with the press links?
<knome> obviously title, url
<knome> author, author url?
 * pleia2 looks at what we have now
<knome> to create the familiar "TITLE at AUTHOR" format
<pleia2> yeah, that sounds good
<knome> okay
<pleia2> sometimes we don't have an author, can that be a conditional?
<knome> yes
<knome> i'll just not print it if it's empty
<pleia2> oh bother, how do you delete a page?
<knome> save it with empty content
<knome> (ta-dah!)
<pleia2> ty
<pleia2> I love how dokuwiki uses the opposite heading styling to moinmoin
<knome> it can be confusing, but it's oh so useful
<knome> = Title = doesn't look like a big heading
<pleia2> no, it's ===== title =====
<knome> i know
<pleia2> or something
<knome> the difference can be confusing
<pleia2> moinmoin = title = is the biggest
<knome> i mean
<knome> and yes, i agree that dokuwiki is superior :P
<pleia2> lol
<pleia2> I don't seem to be able to upload files to this wiki
 * knome hides
<knome> you likely have all the permissions you need in the world
<knome> but the upload form... yeah.
<pleia2> xubuntu_locked_folder.jpg 42.0kB Failed
<pleia2> o_o
<pleia2> so it works, just not my user?
<knome> i believe the legend tells flocculant has been able to upload some files there at some point
<pleia2> hehe
<knome> http://wiki.xubuntu.org/_media/team/milestones.png
<knome> see!
<pleia2> ok, http://wiki.xubuntu.org/marketing/projects/lovexubuntu/2016 is a thing now
<knome> <3
<pleia2> btw, the wiki is spamming logged in users to upgrade
<knome> yes
<pleia2> so someone should do that :)
<knome> yes
<pleia2> not pleia2 
<knome> i'll do that soonish
<pleia2> ty <3
<knome> pleia2, i'll go and remove lines that are done from the marketing pad, much easier to follow what's left
<ax562> hello
<knome> hello
<ax562> was that intel but ever fixed on 16.04?
<ax562> bug
<knome> no intel butts there
<knome> but yes, it should be fixed
<ax562> the pointer disapearing one
<ax562> what was the issue knome?
<knome> i don't know the details
#xubuntu-devel 2017-08-21
<Unit193> bluesabre: New policy: https://anonscm.debian.org/git/dbnpolicy/policy.git/tree/policy/upgrading-checklist.rst#n42
<Unit193> ochosi: Have you ever looked at GNOME's bugzilla without js?
<ochosi> no, should i..?
<Unit193> Not if you want to read it at all.
<knome> probably not
<Unit193> https://i.imgur.com/eU7mP5P.png
<knome> fun
<Unit193> https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2017/08/msg00007.html might be a better link for Sean.
<knome> even if Unit193 is nagging about it, the xfce bugzilla is better :P
<Unit193> Correct, it's weird but at least readable.
<Unit193> knome: Think I only commented once?
<Unit193> ochosi: Thanks again for monitoring and trying to get the GTK fix!
<knome> your voice is nagging in my head :P
<Unit193> knome: https://i.imgur.com/9Hlyftu.png
<knome> i know
<knome> also not fun when logged in either
<Unit193> Log in?  Nono, then people expect you to file bugs.
<knome> or create products
<Unit193> ...But actually, my success rate in Xfce bugs has been pretty amazing, actually.  I still like to discuss with someone first though, as per the norm.
<ochosi> Unit193: no problem. i'm chatting with some of them at times anyway, so i'll try to get the fix in no matter what
<bluesabre> Evening all
<bluesabre> Unit193: thanks for the links
<Unit193> He's alive!
<Unit193> bluesabre: What's up?
<bluesabre> Unit193: not much currently
<Unit193> flocculant: BTW, if you want the desktop terminal back, you might be able to with development thunar.  I won't be picking that up soon because little faith in major thunar changes. :3
#xubuntu-devel 2017-08-22
<Unit193> bluesabre: It's really not much, but someone was interested in taking up the hamster plugins in Debian so I asked about the xfce plugin.  He wasn't didn't know about it so I linked the git repo in case he wanted it (and since I'm the only one to commit, gave full permission to remove me/change license and everything.)
<bluesabre> Alrighty, that seems reasonable to me
<Unit193> I know we're not interested in it, but hey it's Xfce!
<Unit193> Seems no movement on sn-plugin though, which is quite sad.
<Unit193> At the same time, I haven't poked anyone since a newer version may be coming which would be quite a bit better.
<bluesabre> Yeah
<ninetls> Unit193: better in memory leakages!
<ninetls> I still don't understand why doest it leak
<Unit193> ninetls: That, the ctrl+click thing, and most important: no 1x1 px icons. :P
<immaBear> hello?
<Unit193> Howdy.
<immaBear> How's it going? this is my first time here. I was thinking about contributing to Xubuntu, this was the first thing the docs hit :)
<Unit193> Yeah we're pretty IRC centric, though you won't generally find too many of us around at this hour.  Great!  Where are you interested in contributing?
<immaBear> gotcha. Well I've been doing web development mostly & I notice you guys have some tickets for the website, so I was thinking about that. But I've been trying to kind of branch out my development skills more, so maybe some of the bug tickets? 
<immaBear> This would be my first contribution to an open source project, so I'm kind of new to this. 
<immaBear> (I got my CS degree a few years ago, went straight into web development. Kind of looking for "non-web" type of things if that's available.)
<Unit193> Aha, OK!  So yes a lot of what makes Xubuntu itself are Xfce packages, which we pull from upstream.  As far as our own packages, we basically have mugshot, catfish, menulibre, lightdm-gtk-greeter(-settings), and maybe some other(s) that I'm not remembering.
<Unit193> We have blueprints linked off of the dev site, but so far this has been a pretty relaxed cycle.
<immaBear> Ok, sounds cool :) I'm currently reading through the Contributor Documentation, so I will check out those packages & blueprints once I finish reading that :)
<immaBear> I need to go to bed soon, so I may not finish reading the contributor docs til the next few days.
<Unit193> Also, while most of us idle here, you may need to wait quite a while for answers sometimes (people work, sleep, etc.) :)
<Unit193> OK, sounds fair.
<immaBear> ok that's totally fine, I have all those things as well so I understand 100% :)
<Unit193> Some people see a chat window and seem to think someone will respond within 5 minutes, just making sure.  And the blueprints are all linked under https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-a-roadmap
<immaBear> cool, bookmarked :)
<immaBear> I should probably hop off & get to bed now though. But thanks for the info, I really appreciate it! :)
<Unit193> Sure thing, g'night!
<immaBear> night! :)
<Unit193> http://appstream.ubuntu.com/artful/universe/issues/index.html#Xubuntu_Developers_%3Cxubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com%3E that's why it's useful to set the maintainer as Xubuntu Devs. :3
<flocculant> Unit193: ack
<Unit193> Won't yet though, bindings aren't there.
<flocculant> :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: ...Miiight work better if we sub ubuntu-sponsors. :P
<bluesabre> Unit193: was pretty sure I had
<Unit193> (Still) not showing up on the sponsoring page.
<bluesabre> Yeah, they're definitely not subbed now
<bluesabre> Subbed
<bluesabre> (probably again)
<Unit193> :/
<Unit193> onboard stuff still pending in x-d-s, but don't think that counts as FF, more UIF.
<bluesabre> oh yeah
<bluesabre> Feel free to upload
<sorinello> Hello guys. I have 2 lenovo Thinkpad laptops, and the Power Settings, more exactly dimming/turning off the display after a certain amount of time does not work. Any idea on how to debug this ?
<Unit193> Are there any specific Xfce updates we want to get in?
<ochosi> depends on whether the new pulseaudio plugin will be ready
<ochosi> or the statusnotifier plugin
<Unit193> pa-plug isn't merged to master, sn-plug we're trying but not seen much movement.  Only other one might be garcon.
<ochosi> as a test to replace the indicator-plugin
<ochosi> garcon has an issue with icon sizes where there is a patch, but so far eric_the_idiot hasn't merged it
<Unit193> (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1709733)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1709733 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] xfce4-statusnotifier-plugin" [Wishlist,New]
 * ninetls is keeping sn-plugin launched via valgrind trying to find memory leaks
#xubuntu-devel 2017-08-23
<eric_the_idiot> ochosi: https://git.xfce.org/xfce/garcon/commit/?id=4387496fe332a50945e7db76bc2196b419656fe3 that patch?
<Unit193> Nice, sounds good.
<ochosi> eric_the_idiot: oh, damn, i thought i was subscribed to the bugreport, but obviously not :) thanks!
<Unit193> Still not in a release tarball.
 * Unit193 waves to ochosi.
<ochosi> anything i can do for you? :)
<Unit193> Uhh, hrm?
<Unit193> I don't remember my quirks with xfpm, and you're not the maintainer for systemload-plugin so I guess not.
<ochosi> systemload - no
<ochosi> xfpm - i haven't touched it in ages
<ochosi> i'm sure there are tons of bugreports (of which 90% go against systemd or distros not setting things up correctly)
<Unit193> Yeeep.  Finally got around to testing .6, but went back. :3
<Unit193> Eh, one was a wrong icon, another was something else.  Might have to grep.
<ochosi> well would be good to know
<ochosi> 1.6 uses the icons from upower directly
<ochosi> that is one difference
<Unit193> Gist of it was: The icon for "plugged in with no battery" is actually using "plugged in, charging battery" and the use of switches really made me revert. :P
<Unit193> Part of that might be the theme I use.
<Unit193> If the upower change wouldn't affect 1.4, then might be it.
<Unit193> ochosi: Next time, I'll grab the info from upower and see what it says.
<ochosi> yup, sounds like a plan
<Unit193> ...Did I put xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin with mpris support in a PPA somewhere?
<Unit193> Aha, not PPA'd, in my own repo.
<knome> :)
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> Seems appindicators are safe for now, https://didrocks.fr/2017/08/23/ubuntu-gnome-shell-in-artful-day-7/
<Unit193> Why is it on Github?  And seems they'll use them, but wonder what'll happen with the stack.
<bluesabre> Might be following the trend
<bluesabre> "Go to where the developers are"
<Unit193> Urgh.
<Unit193> What's up this morning?
<Unit193> Was I going to poke you about yet another thing? :P
<bluesabre> Not much, started getting sick last night so went to bed at 7:30
<Unit193> Bah, that's not good.
<bluesabre> Trying to motivate myself to be productive after work each day... not been quite there recently
<Unit193> Oh, I was considering poking you about sgt-launcher bugs, but meeeeeh. :P
<Unit193> Good luck while being sick.
<bluesabre> Feeling better this morning
<bluesabre> so, Unit193, poke away :D
<Unit193> Eh, just a few bugs, nothing super interesting.
<bluesabre> Need to refocus on xubuntu for now instead of xfce :)
<Unit193> Unfortunate, but a bit yeah.
<Unit193> Hopefully only upstream Xubuntu stuff and that I got everything else. :3
<flocculant> bluesabre: sometimes it's just good to look elsewhere :)
<Unit193> Always good to look elsewhere, right before uploading.
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<ochosi> evening everyone
<ochosi> Unit193: fyi, i've now pointed some ubuntu-desktop folks to the gtk+ upstream bug and asked them for support
<ochosi> flocculant: ^
<ochosi> as they asked me to report a downstream bug, i did so: https://bugs.launchpad.net/gtk/+bug/1712701
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1712701 in gtk+3.0 (Ubuntu) "Clicking on a GtkRange inside a GtkMenuitem makes the parent disappear" [Undecided,New]
<Unit193> Great.
<Unit193> I think I got sn-plug in. :3
#xubuntu-devel 2017-08-24
<bluesabre> Unit193: oh goodie
<Unit193> And in Debian, the GTK bug was re-assigned to GTK.
<bluesabre> hooray!
<Unit193> ochosi: ac-adapter-symbolic
<ochosi> Unit193: is that the icon that upower tells you, the one that is missing or the one that is erroneously displayed instead of something else..?
<ochosi> Unit193: alright, now i remember. so this is the upower icon name: https://cgit.freedesktop.org/upower/tree/src/up-device.c#n118
<ochosi> and adwaita has that icon too, so i would say your icon theme is at fault for not providing it
<Unit193> That'd be what upower tells me, and using the default icon theme. :)
<Unit193> (Xfce elementary.)
<flocculant> ochosi: thanks - read -desktop too
<Unit193> I read logs too.
<flocculant> heh
<Unit193> Read these, don't activly read.
<ochosi> Unit193: so this is the icon you get then https://github.com/shimmerproject/elementary-xfce/blob/master/elementary-xfce/devices/symbolic/ac-adapter-symbolic.svg
<ochosi> and i would say that's a bug in my theme
<ochosi> i overlooked that
<ochosi> for some reason i never get that icon
<ochosi> pushed a fix
<Unit193> Maybe ,IIRC it was using the "charging" icon.
<Unit193> Pop the battery out of the laptop, should do it!
<Unit193> bluesabre: Is LP still sending you emails?
<flocculant> it does me - keeps saying it'll only send one more but just sends more telling me it'll only send one more ;)
<Unit193> Bug mails I'm not getting.
<flocculant> not had anyhing since 22nd - sp perhaps issue
<ochosi> evening all
<Unit193> Heya, ochosi!
<ochosi> i noticed a "fix committed" in the lp bug
<ochosi> i guess that's a good sign
<ochosi> plus a more optimistic comment on the upstream bug from a gtk+ dev
<ochosi> so i guess things could be worse
<Unit193> What's a popover in this context look like?
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+3.0/3.22.19-0ubuntu1
<Unit193> (http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/artful/update_excuses.html#gtk+3.0)
<ochosi> a popover in the panel you mean?
<ochosi> that would be what elementary has
<ochosi> i'm pretty sure you wouldn't like it
<Unit193> Hah, crap.  You know me too well, thanks.
<Unit193> (I have no idea what elementary has.)
<ochosi> look at the calendar popup at the panel here: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-HG0nAc39s10/UcQ-HhbiDGI/AAAAAAAAPmM/zYFYxCjN6Ss/s1600/wingpanel-eos_2.png
<ochosi> it's a rounded box with a pointing arrow towards its origin
<ochosi> you get that in most headerbars too
<Unit193> So yes that's not so very nice, I like Xfce's version better.  Though I might be able to compromise if that fixes the notification going over top of it.
<Unit193> ochosi: Do you remember when Skunnyk was going to be back?
<ochosi> Unit193: not sure it would fix that. and not sure when Skunnyk will be back...
<Unit193> OK.
#xubuntu-devel 2017-08-25
<bluesabre> Unit193: got some bug mail today
<bluesabre> I get so much of it though, it's filtered away to a folder I check rarely
<Unit193> Bah...
<Unit193> Not in spam nor all.
<Unit193> (https://anonscm.debian.org/viewvc/pkg-gnome?view=revision&revision=52871 too)
<Unit193> tacocat: â
<tacocat> awesome
<tacocat> i feel like i could've done more to bump the gnome guys myself :x i got slacking
<flocculant> ochosi Unit193 - just fyi today * Add fix-gtk-menu-sliders.patch 3.22.19-0ubuntu1
<Unit193> flocculant: Yes I linked that...Yesterday?  I've gotten my times mixed up. :3
<flocculant> oh really - missed that then :)
<Unit193> I just provided a link, not as verbose.  That Debian link is the same commit but in Debian (not uploaded yet.)
<flocculant> see it now amongst popover stuff which I obviously ignored :D
<flocculant> ochosi: not sure if this is new or I just missed something before, sliders (eg volume in pavu) can't apparently click somewhere along the track to set volume - it just increments in same value as mouse wheel would do > http://sendvid.com/bn8ipi2y
<flocculant> or it's a bug of course
<ochosi> flocculant: that's a bug then. in 17.10 that works fine with pa-plugin
<flocculant> ochosi: using bluesabre's git version here 0.2.5git-1760ea6, pavucontrol is 3.0-3.1 
<ochosi> flocculant: i'm also using git master
<flocculant> and you see the same issue?
<flocculant> well - I assume that it's the bluesabre one at least
<flocculant> anyway - back later probably
<ochosi> flocculant: no, pavucontrol and pa-plugin work as expected for me (clicking the slider sets that value immediately, no "scrolling")
<flocculant> mmm - ok guess it's something in Sean's version then :)
<ochosi> i also have sean's version though
<ochosi> in 17.04
<ochosi> are you on 17.10?
<flocculant> yea 
<ochosi> right. so different gtk3 version
<flocculant> yup
<ochosi> potentially another regression in gtk
<flocculant> right
#xubuntu-devel 2017-08-26
<Unit193> https://git.launchpad.net/network-manager/commit/?h=artful&id=2b7d9cbec93e4d08d458ae9963d2a7c34f90e8db
<Unit193> acheronuk: I presume you folks saw that roll in, I remember last cycle you blacklisted that (network-manager-config-connectivity)
<acheronuk> Unit193: no upload with that commit yet?
<acheronuk> thanks
<Unit193> Not as of yet, no.  I presume it'll just be added to the Ubuntu desktop seed, we don't want it either.
<acheronuk> ok. thanks for the head up :)
<Unit193> Of course!
<flocculant> knome: question re slideshow - are you intending more than just s/17.04/17.10 and background changes? would ask slicky but not seen him for weeks ;)
<knome> flocculant, i don't think so tbh...
<flocculant> knome: I assumed so :)
<flocculant> don't forget Mathieu was wanting it earlier this cycle :p
<knome> yeah right haha
<knome> :)
<knome> guess i should go poke it now..
<flocculant> :D
<knome> installing build deps..
<knome> eeh
<knome> hmm, what was the package you needed again in addition to those..
<knome> gosh
<knome> ok libwebkitgtk-3.0.0-dev
<knome> sigh
<knome> added that information to https://wiki.xubuntu.org/doc/build
<knome> and update done...
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> if I'd known we were just changing the version number I could have done it myself 
<flocculant> anyway - thanks knome
<knome> i removed the zapus art too
<knome> and updated the pot files for all flavors
<knome> and np
<flocculant> I'd not have done that :D
#xubuntu-devel 2017-08-27
<Unit193> bluesabre: You didn't push your pa to master yet?
<bluesabre> Unit193: not been at the computer for more than a few minutes at a time
<Unit193> :3
<tacocat> has https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings/+bug/1512963 been looked at?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1512963 in lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings (Ubuntu) "settings allow arbitrarily large user pictures which makes the user lock themselves out at lightdm." [Critical,Confirmed]
<Unit193> Doesn't look like it.
<tacocat> :3
<Unit193> Shouldn't that be a bug more in lightdm-gtk-greeter?
<bluesabre> maybe, or the theme should apply constraints
<bluesabre> but yeah, can take a look at that soon
<tacocat> awesome :)
<ochosi> themes can set constraints i guess, but that only solves the problem on a per-theme basis
<Unit193> acheronuk: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/1.8.2-1ubuntu4 note specifically the package name.
<Unit193> (Which doesn't agree with https://git.launchpad.net/network-manager/tree/debian/control?h=artful#n288)
<Unit193> (Specifically, in relation to http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-dev/ubuntu-seeds/kubuntu.artful/view/head:/desktop#L188)
#xubuntu-devel 2018-08-21
<flocculant> brainwash: that comment means zilch to me
<brainwash> flocculant: ok
<flocculant> brainwash: just quickly, cos I wondered if my wording sounded like I didn't care - what I didn't know what you meant by 'in the comments you were told to look at bug blah' looking at the bug, there's nothing in there pointing to me - unless you think I'm a Ken ...
<brainwash> flocculant: not quite, but that's just a typo isn't it? Gunnar has subscribed you to the report, and then addresses a Ke_ in a new comment some seconds later.
<brainwash> are you handling translation related issues?
<brainwash> there has to be reason why you were subscribed to the report
<flocculant> never had anything to do with translations - have enough trouble with English
<brainwash> QA then?
<brainwash> maybe ignore it then
<flocculant> possibly - but qa is pretty much dead because no-one appears to care until it's too late 
<flocculant> one of the reasons I'm trying - unsuccessfully I add - to ignore *buntu and try to find some interest again
<flocculant> wandering off now 
<brainwash> alright
<brainwash> cya
#xubuntu-devel 2018-08-22
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-appfinder 4.13.1 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-appfinder-4-13-1-released-tp51625.html (by AndrÃ© Miranda)
#xubuntu-devel 2018-08-23
<acheronuk> do you see LP: #1788597 in your bionic and cosmic daily isos?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1788597 in console-setup (Ubuntu) "ubiquity broken with console-setup 1.178ubuntu2.5" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1788597
<brainwash> now that is a surprise.. gnome-software does not actually terminate on exit, it keeps running in the background
<brainwash> that's >100MB
<ochosi> noice
<brainwash> closing the window just hides it. that's pretty lame.
<brainwash> some small background service for update notifications should have been coded instead
#xubuntu-devel 2018-08-24
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: Drop emacs-goodies-el temporarily. @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=cec1d8376b4db355bc4f535224e8e730708143d1 (by Dimitri John Ledkov)
<Unit193> Anyone on xfconf 4.13 and trying or want to try the gsettings backend?
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Replace deprecated background-alpha with {enter,leave}-opacity for a semi-transparent panel with xfc... @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=7f1ecefa802f073880024a57e9f440037123b368 (by Sean Davis)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Add separator and hide window list handle for cleaner panel appearance @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=430013175f05560d3c7fa824976e1dd9a8e815b7 (by Sean Davis)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Update changelog @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=6953a229d535326e5a493470a09be100c2d81236 (by Sean Davis)
<Unit193> 'Set the square-icons option to true'  I'm going to presume we'll want to pick up new whisker then.
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Add DesktopNames=XFCE to xubuntu.desktop to correctly set XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP (LP: #1590089) @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=c51e25bd4934897007ae821234b3b470c7cd3a71 (by Sean Davis)
<bluesabre> Unit193: sure, that'd be nifty
<bluesabre> Sorry for my recent absence, my laptop has been a file recovery bot this week
<Unit193> I figured work was busy.
<bluesabre> Current plan is to do a lot of xubuntu/xfce stuff this weekend
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Fix various issues preventing the last commits from working @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=b97c490320b1f8e407688b7eef363c0823e30c55 (by Sean Davis)
#xubuntu-devel 2018-08-25
<brainwash> bluesabre: any idea why this one got no attention? bug 1339911
<ubottu> bug 1339911 in xfce4-clipman-plugin (Ubuntu) "[MRE] Please update xfce4-clipman-plugin to 1.2.6" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1339911
<brainwash> now four years later, and it's too late
<bluesabre> brainwash: guessing it's because he didn't continue to press the sponsors about it... they can occasionally miss things or forget about them
<brainwash> bummer
<brainwash> can you mark as won't fix please?
<bluesabre> done
<brainwash> thanks
<brainwash> also, these two old reports from you are lost in time
<brainwash> bug 1054399
<ubottu> bug 1054399 in orage (Ubuntu) "orage uses 'Ctrl+H' accelerator for Help" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1054399
<brainwash> bug 1054396
<ubottu> bug 1054396 in orage (Ubuntu) "orage preferences point to 'play', but play not installed" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1054396
<bluesabre> oh wow
<ondondil> no dziaÅa mi snoonet w weechacie
<ondondil> nawet da siÄ obsÅugÄ myszÄ wÅÄczyÄ
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Use paplay for the sound application (LP: #1054396) @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=36a97d85e454f31ccd60434709449ca4dd6b51ca (by Sean Davis)
<ondondil> whoops, sorry, wrong channel
<ochosi> woot, we still carry default settings for orage..?
<bluesabre> ochosi: apparently so :D
#xubuntu-devel 2018-08-26
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Release xubuntu-default-settings 18.10 @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=6e7f485f7d54fe9a82064d44938a64b8a92d2383 (by Sean Davis)
<flocculant> if anyone is using cosmic - don't update it ...
<flocculant> I'm assuming it wasn't the x-default-settings which has killed it, but one of the other things that happened at the same time
<ochosi> ooops, good to know
<ochosi> thanks flocculant 
<ochosi> i'm using cosmic on a daily basis now because it's a great development platform
<flocculant> ochosi: 
<flocculant> oops
<flocculant> ochosi: perhaps update x-d-s just to be sure it's not that - I had a whole load of other things https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/6kyJQHx9Bd/
<flocculant> gdk-pixbuf gave me an error when it updated, wanted me to gdk-pixbuf-query-loaders > /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/gdk-pixbuf-2.0/2.10.0/loaders.cache
<flocculant> which fails lol
<flocculant> stuck in a virgin 18.04 right now
<flocculant> xfce4-session: Fatal IO error 11 (Resource temporarily unavailable) on X server :0 is probably not good
<ochosi> yuck
<ochosi> not sure i wanna try that
<ochosi> it's my production system right now ;)
<flocculant> well  if it is broken by x-d-s you did it :p
<flocculant> or bluesabre ;)
<ochosi> haha
<ochosi> indeed
<bluesabre> uh oh
<ochosi> such a grave problem usually shouldn't come from config changes
<ochosi> but i haven't looked closely at the changelog of x-d-s
<ochosi> i guess the orage config is not the culprit ;D
<bluesabre> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/385364981/xubuntu-default-settings_18.04.6_18.10.diff.gz
<bluesabre> I don't think that would have broken it
<flocculant> bluesabre: well no - I didn't think that either
<flocculant> more likely to be something else from the list
<ochosi> indeed
<Unit193> I did a couple syncs, but...Yeah they certainly didn't! :P
<Unit193> ristretto 0.8.3-1, thunar-media-tags-plugin 0.3.0-1, thunar-vcs-plugin 0.2.0-1, xfce4-mount-plugin 1.1.3-1.  All but the last we already had the upstream versions, so just dropping 'delta'
<flocculant> bluesabre: perhaps the gdk-pixbuf update broke it for me - https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/y4RxfdPnw7/
<flocculant> though the suggested command doesn't work either ...
#xubuntu-devel 2019-08-19
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- Reminder: Next meeting chair is knome
#xubuntu-devel 2019-08-21
<Unit193> bluesabre: Any updates you want to commit to elementary-xfce?
<bluesabre> Unit193: besides uploading it? Mau-G pushed a release yesterday
<Unit193> Yes I'm aware, hence why I asked. :D
#xubuntu-devel 2019-08-22
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-settings 4.14.1 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-settings-4-14-1-released-tp55481.html (by Simon Steinbeiss)
<bluesabre> !team | Today is Feature Freeze for Eoan! We have just under 2 months before release, with the various other freezes happening in the next few weeks. :)
<Unit193> Up.
<bluesabre> Unit193: release schedule link in topic points to disco :)
<Unit193> I know.
<Unit193> ...I should maybe fix that, no?
<bluesabre> Nahhhhh ;)
<bluesabre> Technically the tracker is also pointing to disco, so we are where we are
<bluesabre> Maybe we'll start FF off on the right foot(y ferret)
<ochosi> yuck, i'm not sure how much i'll get done until then wrt greybird
<ochosi> i hope nothing is broken with 4.14
<ochosi> i mean i've been using it and tweaking it for most of the time
<ochosi> but still
<bluesabre> ochosi: haven't seen any breakage so far
<Unit193> I kind of want to see how close we can get to in-sync with Debian. >_>
#xubuntu-devel 2019-08-23
<Unit193> bluesabre: Reminder: parole, catfish.
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 19.10 - amd64 - amd64 built.
<amerigena> join #xfce-dev
<Unit193> Thanks to some hints in -devel, I now have a working Core ISO.
<bluesabre> Way to go Unit193!
<Unit193> Also, pulseaudio-plugin is in sync now.
#xubuntu-devel 2019-08-24
<Spass[m]> I think that we need thunar-archive-plugin 0.4.0 in the QA Staging repo
<Spass[m]> it seems like 0.3.1 doesn't work correctly now on my 18.04 with 4.14
<Spass[m]> I don't see "Extract here" menu entry on archive files
<Spass[m]> or I'm doing something wrong
<Spass[m]> so far I've installed thunar-archive-plugin_0.4.0-2_amd64.deb from disco and it works fine
<Spass[m]> so I guess it's safe to push it to the QA Staging PPA for people
#xubuntu-devel 2019-08-25
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-screenshooter 1.9.6 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-screenshooter-1-9-6-released-tp55560.html (by AndrÃ© Miranda)
#xubuntu-devel 2020-08-17
<Unit193> -thunar-shares-plugin      0.3.0-0ppa1~20.04           68
<Unit193> +thunar-shares-plugin      0.3.0-0ppa1~20.04           78
<Unit193> Hmm.
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- Reminder: Next meeting chair is knome
<jphilips> bluesabre: any update on the rescheduling of the meeting?
#xubuntu-devel 2020-08-18
<xubuntu64> hello, is release 20.04.1 expected by october 22 ?
<jphilips> xubuntu64: it was released on the 6th
<jphilips> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2020-August/000259.html
<xubuntu64> oops, thanks
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: Drop python3-djorm-ext-pgarray, not needed since django 1.8 @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=8390d3c2a87994e55f7c56a5ffb6d2ee034dc78b (by Dimitri John Ledkov)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: garcon 0.7.1 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-garcon-0-7-1-released-tp59366.html (by Simon Steinbeiss)
#xubuntu-devel 2020-08-19
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-settings 4.15.2 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-settings-4-15-2-released-tp59368.html (by Simon Steinbeiss)
#xubuntu-devel 2020-08-20
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: exo 4.15.2 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-exo-4-15-2-released-tp59373.html (by Simon Steinbeiss)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-appfinder 4.15.1 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-appfinder-4-15-1-released-tp59375.html (by Andre Miranda)
<jphilips> bluesabre: any update about the rescheduled meeting
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: thunar-volman 4.15.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-thunar-volman-4-15-0-released-tp59379.html (by Andre Miranda)
#xubuntu-devel 2020-08-21
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-panel 4.15.4 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-panel-4-15-4-released-tp59384.html (by Simon Steinbeiss)
#xubuntu-devel 2020-08-22
<maggotbrain> man. on a fresh install of 20.04 (in a VM), adding a ppa via the gui is borked. just hangs and give an internal error. :-(
<maggotbrain> and the anti-pattern of prompting for the apt source before prompting for admin creds is not good.
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Translate /usr/bin/po/thunar-print.pot in zh_CN @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/ffae56c501a53ffd9f8188e0ccfeb1df40822a4b (by transifex-integration)
<ochosi> quite the release party ^ ;)
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> Sean! \o/
<Unit193> bluesabre: Hey!  I saw you got someone interested in QA!
<bluesabre> Unit193: yeah, just got pinged by them and pointed them at some resources.
<bluesabre> Yay life! :D
<Unit193> Also I should likely look at your doodle. >_<  But as always, late evenings tend to work best.
<jphilips> maggotbrain: how exactly did you add a ppa via the gui, as i didn't any any problems doing it when i did it
<maggotbrain> via Software * Updates -> Other Software -> Add
<jphilips> maggotbrain: on the apt line field, did you simply put in the ppa entry like so - ppa:xuzhen666/dockbarx
<maggotbrain> no. "deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/phoerious/keepassxc/ubuntu focal main" it is accepted and shows correctly. Then freezes on the "refreshing software cache" and eventually (~2+ min) crashes with an internal error.
<maggotbrain> add-apt-repository from the cli works fine.
<maggotbrain> apparently it's a dupe of https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-properties/+bug/1832057
<ubot93> Launchpad bug 1829401 in packagekit (Ubuntu) "gi.repository.GLib.GError: pk-client-error-quark: could not do untrusted question as no klass support" [High, Triaged] [duplicate: 1832057]
<jphilips> maggotbrain: i remember having problems when it was refreshing the software cache and i didn't import the key file and it looped forever when i tried closing the window.
<jphilips> https://docs.xubuntu.org/2004/user/C/managing-applications.html#software-repositories
<jphilips> sad that doing it from the GUI isn't as simple as the commandline and the GUI should take you step by step through the correct process to provide a good UX
<jphilips> linux mint makes it quite user friendly - https://core0.staticworld.net/images/article/2015/07/add-ppa-to-linux-mint-100594418-orig.png
<maggotbrain> yeah sad indeed. This is the 1st time I have done a clean install in a year or two. All of my other xubuntu machines are upgrades.
<maggotbrain> and both the bug I linked and its dupe are over a year old.
