#ubuntu-us-mn 2009-12-22
<Takyoji> If only I could find an option on Empathy to have it automatically spawn new conversation windows, rather than having to go to the buddy list to open a discussion (from which the other person started)
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: It does, it just hides them.  Click the notification in the applet thingy.
<Takyoji> And apparently those whom do the management of technology at our school are very apt...
<Takyoji> The person was trying to install Moodle bundled with XAMPP on a Windows Server with IIS also running, but couldn't get it to work properly.
<Takyoji> And figured out that IIS was bound to port 80, and wanted Apache also bound to port 80 as well...
<Takyoji> But couldn't find out how after "two days of searching" (even though two daemons can't share the same inbound port...)
<Takyoji> and thus blamed it all on Moodle
<Takyoji> The person was trying to get IIS and Apache to listen to port 80, on the SAME server (no virtualization or anything like that).
<Takyoji> The person also complained that they can't figure out how to install PHP; when even MS themselves have a convenient installer (which was found from a quick search engine query, without effort): http://www.microsoft.com/WEB/platform/phponwindows.aspx
<Takyoji> I also suggested in the long term they could just have the server as Linux instead for example, and have all software installed through the package manager and so on. And pulls out the excuse of "well, there's all that maintenance and all that as well.."
<tonyyarusso> what maintenance?  unattended-upgrades ftw!
<tonyyarusso> Your school is fail.
<tonyyarusso> You should write your congressmonkey.
<Takyoji> and it was actually someone I considerably trusted; but after hearing them trying to get two different HTTP servers listen on the same port, that just killed all my faith in them...
<Takyoji> as for the server itself, it previously hosted the district website (before they outsourced it to a different company), and thus currently just sits there hosting two very basic low-traffic static websites
<Takyoji> and the suggestion is to have Moodle installed, considering there's even demand for it.
<Takyoji> otherwise I wrote them the straightforward instructions on how to install Moodle on a Windows Server
<Takyoji> pointing them to the installer for PHP, and the CORRECT files for Moodle (the one that isn't a software bundle of XAMPP), and so forth.
<Takyoji> Just out of curiosity, what distro do any of you trust/favor for servers?
<tonyyarusso> I just use Ubuntu for everything.
<tonyyarusso> Second choice Debian.
<tonyyarusso> apparently UPS delivers on Christmas Eve.
<Takyoji> heh
<Takyoji> another thing I don't understand about Empathy yet is that my accounts are always referred to being "New". Edit > Accounts. "New AIM account", "New Jabber account", "New Yahoo account"
<Takyoji> I've had Empathy configured for those accounts for quite a bit now..
<Takyoji> Weeks, months,
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: but you haven't renamed them :)
<Takyoji> Well I blame it on Empathy then! :P
<_diablo> Takyoji, try pidgin. It's nicer :)
<Takyoji> That's what I had previously.
<Takyoji> I'm just trying to bear with "mainstream"
<Takyoji> to find any inconsistencies, or to be able to assist others that use it as well
<Takyoji> Otherwise I'll rephrase a little further with additional details I was blabbing about earlier:
<Takyoji> <Takyoji> Gah, I just can't get it out of my head of how much of a circus my school is
<Takyoji> <Takyoji> A technologist that spends "2 days" (or perhaps 2 hours) to find a way to have both Apache and IIS bind to the same port on the same server, a district technology coordinator whom never replies to any of your emails, and a teacher that was previously a teacher for Cisco network certification that apparently whenever the last two people listed explain why something isn't working or "can't" work, she apparently alw
<Takyoji> ays comprehends it as "THARS NOT ENOUF SPACE!" (also of whom is a somewhat big Firefox fan, but has no idea how to open a tab or what one is)
<Takyoji> It's tormenting to know of various intricacies in technology and have to live with the above. I don't wanna be smart anymore, I want to be stupid! xP
<_diablo> Takyoji, hahaha, that's so sad :(
<Takyoji> It's kind of interesting how the ubuntu-devel mailing list is like a massive megaphone.
<Takyoji> I sent one message a couple months ago, and now I look at search results for my username and find hundreds of websites that have an archive of the one message I wrote
<Takyoji> Over 4000 results for my username
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: and now you understand why I have 39,000 results
<tonyyarusso> and 50,000 for my real name
<Takyoji> heh
<Takyoji> Even with things you recently stated on Twitter on the first page of results for your username, and distinctly formatted. :P
<Takyoji> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=com.ubuntu%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=POw&q=tonyyarusso&aq=f&oq=&aqi=
<tonyyarusso> yup :)
<Takyoji> What's the benefit to ReactOS?
<tonyyarusso> Your question assumes that there is one.
<Takyoji> I'm assuming it's of running Windows applications "natively" without any form of emulation
<tonyyarusso> That's the idea, yes.
<mr_steve> Hey all, how goes?
<tonyyarusso> It's basically WINE transformed into a full OS.
<tonyyarusso> mr_steve: slow.  Fussing with python.
<mr_steve> ooh, I do a lot of that
<tonyyarusso> really?
<mr_steve> Not as much over the last couple weeks, but yeah, usually
<tonyyarusso> Do you actually know what you're doing?
<mr_steve> Heh, occasionally. I've only been coding in python seriously for almost a year
<mr_steve> I'm actually working on a Google Voice client type app written with PyGTK, but it's been on hold for a while.
<mr_steve> 'night
<Takyoji> Ooo
<Takyoji> Too bad the Linux client for Folding@Home doesn't utilize the GPU
<kermit> too bad it doenst install properly to autostart at boot, too
<kermit> the script runs, but for some reason it gets killed or sometihng
<tonyyarusso> Too bad F@H isn't free software.
<Takyoji> That as well; which would have most likely solved the issue of the lack of GPU support as well
<Takyoji> otherwise use "origami" to install the client; it's what I used, and the Folding@Home client starts at boot
#ubuntu-us-mn 2009-12-23
<tonyyarusso> There will now be some downtime for ubuntu-minnesota.org - time to get karmic on this sucker
<Takyoji> Woo; Microsoft is a ball of fun apparently.
<Takyoji> I gave that one person (that was trying to install Moodle bundled with XAMPP aside IIS..) a link to a simple installer for getting PHP installed in IIS; apparently it will install PHP, but not actually modify IIS's settings to delegate the execution of PHP scripts to the PHP interpreter, thus serving the scripts staticly.
<Takyoji> And also installs a deficit of standard PHP modules as well supposedly
<Takyoji> What I'm referring to is: http://www.microsoft.com/WEB/platform/phponwindows.aspx
#ubuntu-us-mn 2009-12-24
<Takyoji> BitTorrent is quite convenient
<Takyoji> (getting the ISO for 10.04 Alpha 1
<mr_steve> stupid DSL...
#ubuntu-us-mn 2009-12-26
 * jenkinbr is engaged :) 
<tonyyarusso> Congrats
<tonyyarusso> Hey guys, the web site should be back up all happy on Karmic now.  Let me know if you notice any issues.
<jenkinbr> sweet :)
<Takyoji> See if you can find a way to get a Mini 10v with Ubuntu pre-installed: http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/laptop-inspiron-10?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19
<Takyoji> They made it VERY obscure now
<Takyoji> Bonus points to anyone that can find it
<Takyoji> (I have found it though, yes)
<Takyoji> So basically on the basic overview they by default have it with XP, but now have given the option of Windows 7, while burying the option of Ubuntu much further from view.
<Takyoji> I love how nobody cares. :P
#ubuntu-us-mn 2009-12-27
<Takyoji> Anyone know of a basic photo printing tool, to arrange and scale a picture multiple times for printing?
<Takyoji> because apparently such is non-existent in GNOME
<Takyoji> Is there a deb package yet for 64-bit flash?
<Takyoji> Apparently there isn't a tool for printing pictures in array at specific sizes on Ubuntu. Like for example, if someone wanted a picture printed at the size of 3" x 5" on a sheet of glossy paper, you'd have to open an image editing program and manual resize and arrange a picture to do the same as the basic photo printing wizard in XP.
<Takyoji> There's apparently gnome-photo-printer, but it's very lacking, doesn't allow you to print several of one picture, and is only in metric units (no 3"x5" option or anything)
<Takyoji> Unless if someone else in this channel feels compelled to writing such a tool.
#ubuntu-us-mn 2010-12-27
<chinoto> Anyone know of a good recovery tool? I tried testdisk (nix) and PC Inspector (windows). I think my thumbdrive is hosed :/
<chinoto> I think I might have been using testdisk wrong though because it is claimed to be very good at recovering partitions, but it found very few if any partitions, while PC Inspector was able to get every partition I made for linux distros.
<chinoto> aw well, seeya
#ubuntu-us-mn 2010-12-28
<ripps> Okay, I have a new mobo with 939 processor and I need a new pci-e video card to go with it, what's the best I can get for around $70-80?
<AlphaCluster> ripps: are you hoping to game alot or just want video effects?
<ripps> I'm not a huge gamer, but I do play emulator's somewhat regularily. Being able to play psx/n64 games would be nice
<ripps> Video playback and future-proofing is my priority
<AlphaCluster> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131381 ?
<AlphaCluster> Should even have a good Open Source driver ;)
<ripps> does it have xvmc in the -radeon driver?
<ripps> i know that r600 recently got xvmc
<AlphaCluster> isnt 4xxx series r600?
<ripps> I don't know, that's why I'm asking :)
<AlphaCluster> lol yeah im gu8na go double check
<ripps> HD playback is a high priority for me
<AlphaCluster> i dont think it has hardware accelleration with the os driver yet
<ripps> fast and smooth graphics, 2nd. And 3d gaming is 3rd
<AlphaCluster> http://www.x.org/wiki/RadeonFeature
<AlphaCluster> they have been working on it though.
<AlphaCluster> I know the prepriatery drivers provide a VA-API driver. If you want accel you migh twant to go nvidia though its prepriatry it will proved VDPAU for awhile.
<ripps> yeah, I'm aware of the fglrx va-api, and I know that it is crap
<AlphaCluster> lol i got it working but needed to manually build mplayer
<AlphaCluster> i personally have a 5770 and am waiting for the power management to be added to the 5xxx series
<AlphaCluster> btw 4xxx series is r700 but r600 and r700 are almost the same...
<ripps> I'm considering nvidia, but I'm concerned over the future. You need the proprietary for things to work, but driver has a habit of not working with the bleeding-edge xserver/kernel and I'm also worried about the switch to wayland in a few years.
<AlphaCluster> yeah that is why i got ATU
<AlphaCluster> ATI
<AlphaCluster> it may not be perfect now but they will eventually get it working through gallum
<ripps> Can you play you play 1080p video fairly easily?
<AlphaCluster> lkol yeah
<AlphaCluster> my only issue is sometimes there is tearing on my 5xxx but i would guess that is less common on the 4xxx as it has better XV support
<ripps> I'm not entirely sure what the processor with this mobo is. I know it's an amd 64 bit, and it's 939 socket. But I don't have a fan for it yet, so I can turn on the computer yet to check out the specs.
<ripps> s/can/can't/
<ripps> I'm purchasing a video card and fan now
<AlphaCluster> nice
<AlphaCluster> well if you got a dual core you should be fine :)
<ripps> I hope it is
<ripps> i think most all 64 bit for the 939 were dual, but I can't be sure
<AlphaCluster> not all but most for desktop were
<ripps> actually, I just typed in the serial number into google.
<ripps> Looks like it's a amd 3200+
<ripps> which is only single core :/
<ripps> still better than my current desktop
<AlphaCluster> lol yeah
<AlphaCluster> i think i played 720p fine on one of those
<ripps> maybe I should get nvidia than, so that I can I get the hardware acceleration
<AlphaCluster> yeah might be worth it in that case
<AlphaCluster> i almost want to say go with a 9800 then lol
<AlphaCluster> but i dont remember if taht does vdpau or if its after that series
<ripps> http://bleedingedgelinux.blogspot.com/2010/10/nvidias-geforce-gt-430-next-htpc-king.html
<ripps> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121397
<ripps> this looks good.
<AlphaCluster> yep that should be good :)
<AlphaCluster> i missed taht cause i thoguht they were all to high of a price
<ripps> hopefully nouveou will be more mature by the time wayland comes out
<ripps> or nvidia get with it and supports wayland
<AlphaCluster> yeah if wayland get popular they will support it
<ripps> in an ideal world, I would upgrade to an i-core intel setup with sandybridge in the future. Intel video support has pretty good va-api
<AlphaCluster> lol i will report that back to the group
<AlphaCluster> just got a cheap gateway for a htpc
<AlphaCluster> guna try ubuntu 10.10 and see hwo intel support is
<ripps> if you have any computer your not using, feel free to hand them down to me, I'm alway looking to upgrade my setup. Also trying to build my mom an htpc as well
<ripps> ;)
<AlphaCluster> lol sadly i dont have anything that is useable that i dont use
<AlphaCluster> the only retired computer i have around is a Dell Latitude LS with a P3 in it rofl
<unrealjeff> hi friends
<unrealjeff> MINNESOTA FRIENDS
<tonyyarusso> hello
<Takyoji> Egad, there's people in here from Minnesota? D:
<unrealjeff> hi
<unrealjeff> :D
<Takyoji> Hello
<unrealjeff> hi but brb
<Takyoji> Just playing with some malware (in a VirtualBox VM) that my brother's Windows 7 laptop was just infected with; as part of a drive-by download when doing casual web browsing in the most recent version of Google Chrome.
<unrealjeff> brb ubuntuites
<unrealjeff> wow
 * Takyoji wonders why some names in Pidgin in IRC discussions are italicized
<Wally____> Hello
<Wally____> If anyone has a some intermittent time to help with a ubuntu problem, let me know.
<Wally____> Ubuntu 10.04 that won't boot past login screen
<tonyyarusso> Wally____: Generally it's best to just describe all of your problem as best you can and if someone knows the answer, they'll respond.  (Also known as "don't ask to ask")
<Wally____> I messed up the display drivers and need to reinstall them using a live cd
<Wally____> I need help reinstalling the display drivers using a live cd
<tonyyarusso> Which video family?  (Intel, ATI, nVidia, etc.)
<Wally____> nvidia
<Wally____> i am on a linux mint 9 live usb currently
<tonyyarusso> Fixing Ubuntu from a Mint environment might be trickier than necessary - do you have an Ubuntu image handy?
<Wally____> i willl get one.  be back soon
<Wally____> brb
<Wally> ok.  Back
<Wally> tonyyarusso, did you have a method to install a NVidia Driver via a live usb?
<Takyoji> I believe you can get the installer directly from NVidia
<Takyoji> Just not as convenient as doing it through the package manager though I believe
<Wally> The problem is my ubuntu 10.04 will not boot.  I tried to update the driver and f'd up
<Wally> Once it tries to load the login screen it freezes
<Wally> when I boot into recovery mode, the display is messed up and I can't see what i am doing
<Wally> so i need to load it via a live usb
<Wally> to try and save my install. :(
<Wally> I have the install downloaded to the download folder on the home/"Username" of the ubuntu install.
<Takyoji> Could boot to command line and remove nvidia-current and nvidia-common (which should hopefully remove everything depending on such)
<Wally> they are already gone
<Wally> I purged them via command line
<tonyyarusso> Wally: From a Live environment, you can chroot into the hard disk partitions, and run apt commands and whatnot from there for whatever you need to do, affecting the installed system.
<Takyoji> Anyone heard of the MovableType CMS before at all?
<Takyoji> just came across it out of curiosity myself
<Wally> I need some help with running a script via chroot
<Wally> I get  ERROR: missing/broken uname.  Cannot perform platform check.
<Wally> while login as chroot
<Wally> but when I uname it still shows me as my live usb uname
<unrealjeff> hi
<Wally______> hi
<unrealjeff> your name is long
<unrealjeff> is this a free to talk IRC
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: I have.
<Wally______> I need to run a NVIDIA install script through chroot but I keep getting errors.
<tonyyarusso> I think it's more blogging platform than CMS though, a la WordPress.
<Wally______> I am logged in to the other user but when I run the script i get  ERROR: missing/broken uname.  Cannot perform platform check.
<tonyyarusso> unrealjeff: within some reasonable limits, yes.
<unrealjeff> tonyyarusso: cool
<unrealjeff> so what part of Minnesota?
<tonyyarusso> Wally______: do a `which uname` - what is the path given and can you run it with the full path?
<tonyyarusso> unrealjeff: Twin Cities
<Wally______> root@ubuntu:/home/wally/Downloads#
<unrealjeff> i live in a suburb of the twin cities
<Wally______> root@ubuntu:/home/Downloads# which uname
<Wally______> /bin/uname
<Wally______> is what I get inreturn of that
<Wally______> first i did chroot /media/linux/
<Wally______> which was the mount point of my system
<Wally______> then i did chroot
<Wally______> errr scratch that
<Wally______> then i cd to the "Downloads"
<Wally______> then sh "NVIDIA-BlahBlah"
<Wally______> and I get
<Wally______> root@ubuntu:/home/wally/Downloads# sh NVIDIA-Linux-x86-260.19.29.run
<Wally______> NVIDIA-Linux-x86-260.19.29.run: 735: cannot create /dev/null: Permission denied
<Wally______> NVIDIA-Linux-x86-260.19.29.run: 736: cannot create /dev/null: Permission denied
<Wally______> ERROR: missing/broken uname.  Cannot perform platform check.
<tonyyarusso> whoa, dude
<tonyyarusso> !pastebin
<lubotu1> For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://tinyurl.com/imagebin | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
<Wally______> sorry
<tonyyarusso> unrealjeff: actually I'm in a suburb as well - same thing
<unrealjeff> AV
<tonyyarusso> Wrong side o' the river!
<tonyyarusso> Wally______: are you root?
<unrealjeff> hhaha
<Wally______> root on my live cd? or on the chroot??
<tonyyarusso> both, really
<Wally______> ok  i gotta reset the live cd root password
<Wally______> ok I am
#ubuntu-us-mn 2010-12-29
<AlphaCluster> why does 10.10 suck so much :(
<AlphaCluster> i swear every time i install it now i find some stupid error that should never be causing as much of an issue as it does
<AlphaCluster> nobody going to defend it
<AlphaCluster> ?
<tonyyarusso> haven't tried it
<AlphaCluster> lol you havent used 10.10 yet?
<tonyyarusso> nope
<AlphaCluster> are you on 10.04 or something?
<tonyyarusso> yeah
<AlphaCluster> lol well do you know how to moutn a flash drive so that you can exicute programs from it
<AlphaCluster> i could never get that even in 10.04
<AlphaCluster> some idiot thought it would be great for security
<tonyyarusso> -o exec
<AlphaCluster> when mounting?
<tonyyarusso> yeah, or remounting
<AlphaCluster> hmm illhave to try that
<AlphaCluster> i havent been able to get lastpass working on my linux boxes cause of that really silly "security" chane
<AlphaCluster> change*
<AlphaCluster> the change should never have happend without a per-program override like windows
<AlphaCluster> well it looks like gateway has decided for methat my new HTPC will be ubuntu for sure
 * Takyoji returns
<tonyyarusso> true or false?
<sparklehistory> Is there a question or are those just our choices?
<tonyyarusso> I'm wondering what Takyoji returns.
<Takyoji> I return a signed integer you insensitive clod! D:
<Takyoji> i can has negative nice value nao? :D
<Takyoji> It's rather awkward how process priority is called "niceness"
<Takyoji> Yay, my new connector works out-of-the-box on Ubuntu, as I thought it would
<Takyoji> This be the connector: http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/usb-gadgets/dd1a/
<Takyoji> Just emailed ThinkGeek to add Linux to the supported list
<Takyoji> Heh, I even just booted a whole Tangle installation on old harddrive using the cable and VirtualBox
<Takyoji> I'm definitely bringing this to the next installfest
<Takyoji> Guess which one indicates my network usage: http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a368/takyoji/iso-download.png
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: where's the power connector on that cable?
<Takyoji> It's a seperate cable that comes with it; it's a Molex and SATA power cable with an attached transformer and all.
<tonyyarusso> Where's my phone?
<Takyoji> On a table
<sparklehistory> tonyyarusso: In your coat?
<tonyyarusso> sparklehistory: nope
<sparklehistory> tonyyarusso: Well, where did you put it when you took it out of your coat then?
<Takyoji> I get a kick that I'm installing 11.04 in a virtual machine in VirtualBox on a physical old harddrive over the connector. :P
<tonyyarusso> On the washing machine!
<sparklehistory> haha
<sparklehistory> As long as it's *on* the washing machine and not *in* the washing machine
<Takyoji> apparently the responsiveness of the installer appears to be based upon the performance of the harddrive.
<Takyoji> In other words, on this old HD, it seems rather hangy-ish
<Takyoji> unless if that's VirtualBox's fault
 * tonyyarusso installs Natty a couple times while Takyoji waits
<Takyoji> Responsiveness in terms of the GUI, specifically.
<Takyoji> anyway; I've suggested my idea on the Ubuntu Tour project (which is a little empty in terms of users) and someone seemed interested.
<Takyoji> My idea is of creating a web-based recreation of Ubuntu, solely for the purpose of as a guided learning tool. Like stepping people through the process of doing something in the GNOME environment.
<Takyoji> A very vague example would be like screenshots of each step, whereas the area to click is an anchor to the page of the next step.
<tonyyarusso> err, don't we already have tools that can do that?
<Takyoji> But in all reality, I wouldn't do that; I'd be able to it with CSS and XHTML
<Takyoji> Ubuntu Tour can't really control anything with applications much at all.
<Takyoji> Just fixed arrows, and screenshots, not much else.
<Takyoji> unless if I'm mistaken
<tonyyarusso> right, so why bother?
<Takyoji> You're quite supportive. :P
<Takyoji> It would be more "hands-on" than just screenshots and static text.
<Takyoji> Think: eyeOS rethemed as Ubuntu, with tooltips on each step along the way, with voice guidance (if manually enabled)
<Takyoji> Just flipping back and forth between a real application and a screenshot would be annoying I think
<Takyoji> and the goal is that it would also focus on completely new computer users as well
<Takyoji> any changes in opinion yet?
<Takyoji> Toggling between windows of applications, is annoying, is my thought. Scrolling (like with read static text), pausing/playing/seeking (like with a video tutorial), and so on usually seems to make a learning experience slower.
 * tonyyarusso rephrases
<Takyoji> Whereas if it's all integrated into a single interface and application, without having to jump between windows, or having two simultaneous windows open, it'll be more convenient.
<tonyyarusso> There are things out there to allow for access to an actual Ubuntu system over the 'net, so there's no realy point in trying to re-implement it in javascript and stuff.
<Takyoji> If you can find a way to make an application open up the Applications menu, and highlight an option; then tell me.
<tonyyarusso> Also, eyeOS - you mean the horrendous failure?  :P
<Takyoji> And yes, you can do it over the network, but that still comes back to the core problem. :P
<Takyoji> because unless if there's some "Assistance/Handicap Tool" that can manipulate a GUI in GNOME, without having the application to have special support to have such possible, there's not really much else for an option.
<Takyoji> Oh speak again, bright angel!
<Takyoji> I'll give a cookie to whomever knows of a way that doesn't require making a fake representation of Ubuntu
<rlaager> Takyoji: That reminds me of a website our helpdesk used to use back in the days when dial-up was big. It had the network configuration screens for every version of Windows done in that way (image maps).
<Takyoji> heh ahh
<Takyoji> Bleh, apparently this is the "Ubuntu Free Culture Showcase" example video for 11.04: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrzC5JKl3zM
 * Takyoji wonders when the login sound will ever change
<Takyoji> ubuntu-advertising seems to be an interesting mailing list to read
<Takyoji> and apparently in 11.04 there's Terminal and Root Terminal in Accessories
<tonyyarusso> Just like old times!
<Takyoji> and under System there's the Lock, Logout, and Shutdown options again
<Takyoji> unless if it's just GNOME unaltered
<Takyoji> So Unity requires graphics acceleration?
<Takyoji> and woo, I didn't know of this until now: http://www.webupd8.org/2010/12/install-virtualbox-40-stable-in-ubuntu.html
<Takyoji> of VirtualBox 4 being released a week ago
<Takyoji> I wonder why I get the feeling that Unity is a fusion of Mac OS X and Windows 7? xP
<Wally______> Hi can some one take a look at this and see if they can point me in the right direction
<Wally______> http://pastebin.com/wss2wD5T
#ubuntu-us-mn 2010-12-30
<Visiblejunk> you guys in the cities then?
<Takyoji> Faribault, for me
<Takyoji> Most are in the cities it seems, yes
<tonyyarusso> Yeah, most are.
<Visiblejunk> cool, I just installed ubuntu and am figuring out the basic stuff
<Takyoji> Woo
<Visiblejunk> not as much command line as I thought
<tonyyarusso> AlphaCluster spends some of his time here, some near Bemidji, ripps is in Duluth, not actually sure about a number of other people here atm.
<tonyyarusso> not really, no
<Takyoji> Command line usage is a very big misconception
<tonyyarusso> I use a command line a lot, but you certainly don't *have* to - I just like to.
<Takyoji> It seems when you say "Linux" people think "command line"
<Visiblejunk> yeah it seems like everything can be done in gui
<Visiblejunk> well yeah i have been trying to ... like see how it works
<Visiblejunk> you guys running compiz at all?
<Visiblejunk> I think I'd have to mess with my drivers to get it to work
<tonyyarusso> Yeah, but just the default effects.
<Visiblejunk> so I have been looking throught stuff and learned of the "man" command then I did man net in terminal
<Visiblejunk> reading that made me think you could hack the shit outta someone
<Visiblejunk> is that what people use to do that then?
<tonyyarusso> (Careful with the language)
<tonyyarusso> There are various things, depending on what you're trying to do.
<tonyyarusso> Most of the people here are in the business of blocking network attacks though, not committing them.
<Visiblejunk> yeah understandable, but that had warnings galour
<Visiblejunk> right, need to know how they work before you could block I'm guessing though
<Visiblejunk> so like what is there to do in linux that you can't do in windows that noobs don't know about
<tonyyarusso> Well, there are a lot of things that you *can* do in Windows, but are WAY easier in Linux, like running a web/mail/caching/ftp/etc. server.
<tonyyarusso> And various sorts of software development.
<Visiblejunk> even while running your desktop then
<Visiblejunk> yeah thats why i installed
<tonyyarusso> And, you know, browsing the web without getting a billion viruses.
<tonyyarusso> sure.
<Visiblejunk> hmmm
<tonyyarusso> If you get into the command line stuff, the text processing tools are awesome.
<Obsidian1723> hey tony, in fense of the CLUI, many Linux applications are merely GTK front-ends for command line programs. On that same note, often times features available in the CLUI are not available in the GUI, thus the CLUI is better. You can also script for the CLUI, something you cannot for the GUI.
<tonyyarusso> (although also available on Windows through things like Cygwin)
<Visiblejunk> i guess running a server would be cool, but what are the benefits these days when I have tons of space on a gmail account
<Obsidian1723> If you are going to admin in Linux, you need the CLUI. Period.
<Visiblejunk> clui =? command line user interface ???
<Obsidian1723> yeah
<tonyyarusso> Obsidian1723: No, if you're going to admin *efficiently*, you need the CLI.  You can do it either way, it's just easier if you know your way around commands.
<Obsidian1723> Well, there are things that cannot be done i nthe gui.
<tonyyarusso> Visiblejunk: Well, for one, I'm currently chatting with you from a server in New Jersey that is on 24/7, so I never log off.
<Obsidian1723> iptables for instance. gufw or firestarter or even fwbuilder, severely lack.
<tonyyarusso> There are also web sites there.
<Visiblejunk> hmm ok yeah haha, i was talking about the FTP kind of servers i suppose
<Obsidian1723> Like as part of my ubuntu install script for a desktop, I configure iptables all from the CLUI.
<Visiblejunk> what made me install ubuntu was when comcast went out and the cause was DNS servers and I had no idea about that and wanted to know more about the net
<Obsidian1723> Right on...
<Visiblejunk> so... is my assumption that linix or unix people made the net... correct?
<Visiblejunk> i mean more or less
<Obsidian1723> Actually DARPA and the NSF made it.
<tonyyarusso> Well, sort of?
<Visiblejunk> yeah but linux made it usable for consumers
<Visiblejunk> right?
<tonyyarusso> DARPA and NSF did it, but it was developed at the same time as Unix, and used Unix to work, so they were pretty hand-in-hand.
<tonyyarusso> Linux didn't come around until 1991.
<Obsidian1723> UNIX for the back-end, Windows desktop for the end-user.
<tonyyarusso> (and wasn't really usable for another ten years after that)
<Obsidian1723> When the web could do images in 1991/92 was when it blew up.
 * Obsidian1723 started on the net in '78.
<Visiblejunk> right thats the basics, how does one go about learning the details
<Obsidian1723> Visible, if you are new to networking, checkout Hobbes Internet TIme Line for an overall history of the Net, and also learn the basics of networking, the OSI Model, etc. That will give you a good foundation to start with.
<tonyyarusso> Obsidian1723: You're enough of an old fart to appreciate this - the guy who invented the "Reply" button in e-mail was over at my house a few days ago for dinner.
<Obsidian1723> You learn the basics first.
<Obsidian1723> Nice!!
<sparklehistory> tonyyarusso: Who was that?
<Obsidian1723> Visible, you can't understand ATM, MPLS, Load-balancing, etc unless you know how TCP/IP works, how the OSI works, etc.
<Visiblejunk> whats the etc? I'm seriously taking notes
<tonyyarusso> sparklehistory: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Email#From_SNDMSG_to_MSG
<Obsidian1723> a lot man, a hell of a lot.
<Visiblejunk> TCP/IP where is the playground for that then
<Obsidian1723> tony RFC 822
<Visiblejunk> what do you play around with
<Obsidian1723> Sept 1980
<Visiblejunk> to understand it
<Obsidian1723> Me?
<tonyyarusso> Obsidian1723: yup
<Obsidian1723> Dude, I grew up with it. Started in 78 at age 11. Im 43, I have 32 years of living with it as stuff was created.
<Visiblejunk> yeah sure, what do you play with to learn the TCP/IP and OSI stuff
<Visiblejunk> haha
<Visiblejunk> your that guy
<Obsidian1723> I read?
<Takyoji> Wireshark is a useful tool
<Takyoji> and reading of course
<Obsidian1723> nmap too
<tonyyarusso> Obsidian1723: Although I see it labeled as August 1982.
<Obsidian1723> Maybe I'm thinking of another one> Lotsa rfcs
<Obsidian1723> Visible, gets some stuff for the Network+ course
<Obsidian1723> buy that book, that covers a lot.
<Obsidian1723> tony wireshark is good, etherape, etc. I'm a fan of namp, you can mape out an entire network with it. By using zenmap for the GUI front-end, you can even export to a JPEG of the network, save it, edit it, etc...
<Visiblejunk> what book? is it called Network+
<Obsidian1723> Good stuff.
<Obsidian1723> Yeah, CompTIA Network+
<Visiblejunk> yeah well i should tell you my background ... I have a degree in math and stats and have learned a bit about the RSA algorithm
<Visiblejunk> so kind of learning how that stuff works is interesting to me
<Visiblejunk> you know RSA then?
<Obsidian1723> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/914191/CTRL%2BALT%2BDelete%20Creator.flv <--tony
<Obsidian1723> What about RSA?
<tonyyarusso> Visiblejunk: If you're looking for some background reading, some good (and huge) texts on the subject:  http://www.amazon.com/Computer-Networks-5th-Andrew-Tanenbaum/dp/0132126958/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1293678268&sr=1-2 , http://www.amazon.com/Computer-Networking-Top-Down-Approach-5th/dp/0136079679/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1293678421&sr=1-1 , ...
<Obsidian1723> I use it often to get into government machines.
<tonyyarusso> ... http://www.amazon.com/Network-Networks-Networking-Course-Technology/dp/1423902459/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1293678455&sr=1-1 , http://www.amazon.com/Practice-System-Network-Administration-Second/dp/0321492668/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1293678495&sr=1-1 , http://www.amazon.com/UNIX-Linux-System-Administration-Handbook/dp/0131480057/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1293678495&sr=1-3
<Obsidian1723> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/914191/CTRL%2BALT%2BDelete%20Creator.flv <--tony
<Visiblejunk> haha yeah right
<Visiblejunk> if it isn't secure, thats what I want to learn, so if you get around it thats cool man
<Obsidian1723> yeah right what?
<Obsidian1723> Nothing is 100% secure. Security is not a pieceo f hardware or software. It is not a setting. It is a mindset. A way of thinking, acting and being 24/7/365.
<tonyyarusso> Visiblejunk: Alternatively, just buy me the first and last books on that list, and I'll lend them to you ;)  (I have 2, 3, and 4 already)
<Visiblejunk> from my understanding you would have to install something on the system that encrypts the message to figure out the decryption code
<tonyyarusso> Obsidian1723: 365.25
<Visiblejunk> by something i  mean a keylogger probly
<Visiblejunk> can you torrent those books or are they too obscure
<Obsidian1723> Well, usually with RSA there is a fob, and thatchanges every so often. Youd need to know the algorithim.
<tonyyarusso> They're certainly not obscure, but we don't discuss illegal filesharing on this network.
<Obsidian1723> If you want to hack crypotography, you STILL need to know the basics first.
<tonyyarusso> You can probably buy them in e-book form though.
<Visiblejunk> haha for sure, i don't expect instant gratification
<Obsidian1723> :D
<Visiblejunk> just looking for something to learn about long term
<Visiblejunk> because as a math guy, you set in on a lecture and they show you a proof of the time it would take to break the algoritm
<Visiblejunk> and after that lecture you think its unbreakable, but there must be ways around it
<Obsidian1723> Start with the basics, go from there. what is your end goal? Security? Databases? just knowledge overall or a speciality?
<Visiblejunk> well if I could understand RSA in its application that would be cool
<Visiblejunk> the chaulk board is a lot different from a computer
<Obsidian1723> yeah but you cant understand that until you understand the other stuff.
<Visiblejunk> sweet, so i'll be working on these books for a while then I'm guessing
<Obsidian1723> yuppers.
<Visiblejunk> you guys on here a lot, if I had a question about something would it be bothersome to ask it then?
<Obsidian1723> I'd suggerst Network+ > Linux+ > Security+
<tonyyarusso> yup
<Obsidian1723> then CCNA
<tonyyarusso> If tonyyarusso if offline, something's probably wrong :P
<Visiblejunk> yup as in bothersome..? hah
<tonyyarusso> (If I'm not here physically, it will be logged and I can reply later.)
<tonyyarusso> oh, no.  to the "on here a lot"
<Visiblejunk> thats dedication man
<tonyyarusso> There are also a bunch of other channels, like ##networking, that may interest you.
<Visiblejunk> haha yeah i'll check them out, I just came here since I saw a bunch of local channels and looked up minne
<Visiblejunk> is there another layer to this server, since I looked on the logs, at least for today it was pretty bare until I came on here and started asking stuff
<tonyyarusso> This particular channel is usually somewhat slow, but other channels can be quite the opposite (#ubuntu, for instance).
<Visiblejunk> how many members do you guys have? any particular projects you work on or goals?
<Takyoji> Nothing in specific currently
<Takyoji> Would like to; but just have to get people active, and get people.
<Obsidian1723> tony did you ever hook up with free geek?
<tonyyarusso> Obsidian1723: not so far :S
<tonyyarusso> Obsidian1723: Somebody certainly could, but I haven't had a chance personally.
<Obsidian1723> ah.. figured itd be a good partnership.
<tonyyarusso> Visiblejunk: You'll find some stuff in the beginnings of outlining on Launchpad and the Wiki, but nothing's really taken off much yet.
<Visiblejunk> yeah i was just reading that
<Obsidian1723> visible, after you get the basics down and then some, maybe look at pen testing.
<Obsidian1723> Sounds like your area.
<Visiblejunk> gonna need to elaborate or wait for me to goodle that one
<Visiblejunk> google*
<tonyyarusso> pen = penetration, ie network vulnerability testing
<Obsidian1723> penetration testing
<Takyoji> http://freegeektwincities.org/
<Visiblejunk> haha i swear i was going to ask that
<Visiblejunk> like is that the point of it being open source
<Visiblejunk> to look for weakness and fix it
<Obsidian1723> Ever see BackTrack?
<Visiblejunk> nope
<Obsidian1723> or if you like Gnome, GnackTrack
<Obsidian1723> It's for vunerablity testing
<Visiblejunk> (still new to this os) is the gnome the gui version and backtrack the command line
<Obsidian1723> BackTrack has a GUI, just not in Gnome
<Takyoji> GNOME is the desktop environment
<Obsidian1723> In Linux, you have ther kernel, the core of the OS, then you have applications surrounding it, all command line.
<Visiblejunk> yeah thats what ive come to gather, but its a bit deeper awnser im sure
<Takyoji> other desktop environments include KDE, Xfce, LXDE, and much more
<Visiblejunk> how many lines of code is the kernal?
<Obsidian1723> On top of that, you have Widow Server like XFree86, X.org
<tonyyarusso> "Lots"
<Visiblejunk> or is it even code at all
<Takyoji> Couple billions I believe
<Visiblejunk> is it human or machine at that level?
<Obsidian1723> on top of that, Window managers like FWVM, Metacity etc
<tonyyarusso> Are we into billions?  I don't think we're into billions...
<Obsidian1723> on top of that desktop environments, like KDE, XFCE, Enlightenment, Gnome, etc
<Visiblejunk> i know doom 3 engine was millions
<Obsidian1723> No, 3 million I believe.
<Obsidian1723> Not billions
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: 13.5 million in 2.6.35, according to Wikipedia.
<Visiblejunk> is there a good visual of the hierchy of the os?
<Obsidian1723> Google FHS
<Takyoji> ahh
<Obsidian1723> that shows the File Hierarchy System
<tonyyarusso> 324 million in all of Debian 5 "lenny", however they're measuring that.
<Obsidian1723> but whaty ou want is probably deeper than that...
<Takyoji> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesystem_Hierarchy_Standard
<Takyoji> Personally I've been wanting to have some project to diagram the structure of a Linux distro and so on
<Takyoji> Like of how all the components relate with each other
<Obsidian1723> Linux is a modular OS, vs Windows which is monolithic. When you look at Linux, realize it's more than just a technical deal. It's not only technical, sure, that's the end result of the beginning, which is a philosophy of design, the implmentation of it is the pilitical and technical side, with technical being the result.\
<Visiblejunk> can someone send you a link on here that says like wikipedia.org/bahaha/blah but it's really meatspin or something???
<Obsidian1723> Linux is Linux. Its those political, design philosophies that vary.
<Visiblejunk> i got everything out of that cept "pilitical"
<Obsidian1723> political
<Visiblejunk> haha right
<tonyyarusso> Careful now - Linux is a monolithic kernel, but a modular OS :P
<Obsidian1723> You can add or remove modules to the kernel. Its modular.
<Takyoji> Wikipedia will chop you up and serve you as burgers for such spammery
<Visiblejunk> so in lamens, linux is legos building a shape and windows is one block carved out into shape
<Takyoji> Yus
<tonyyarusso> Obsidian1723: "Modular operating systems such as OS-9 and most modern monolithic operating systems such as OpenVMS, Linux, BSD (and its flavors FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD), and UNIX variants such as SunOS, and AIX, in addition to MULTICS, can dynamically load (and unload) executable modules at runtime. This modularity of the operating system is at the binary (image) level and not at the architecture level. Modular monolithic ...
<tonyyarusso> ... operating systems are not to be confused with the architectural level of modularity inherent in Server-Client operating systems (and its derivatives sometimes marketed as hybrid kernel) what use microkernels and servers (not to be mistaken to modules or daemons)."
<Takyoji> There's so much more variety in Linux
<tonyyarusso> Linux is a monolithic kernel.
<tonyyarusso> (pedantry!)
<Obsidian1723> Visible, for example..... Debian is free. they want only free software, and yes, you can add mp3 support to Debian, but with some work. Its not their goal to really support that or have Debian's users desire it. Contributers to Debioan are coders mainly, whereas with Ubuntu, a fork of Debian, anytone can contribute. Ubuntu's code is based off of Debian's of course, but with easier support for non-free software.
<Takyoji> I have yet to see someone write their own desktop environment for Windows.
<Obsidian1723> tony I guess we are aruging semantics then :D
<Obsidian1723> You cant really write that for Windows since youd have to replace so much of Windows that you cant ever see.
<Obsidian1723> You can replace teh shell, modify things, but never replace them in Windows.
<Takyoji> One thing I never really understood until like 1-2 years later was the different between open source and free software (as per Free Software Foundation)
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: KDE runs on Windows these days.
<Visiblejunk> yeah, so in linux if you don't like something very specific it is realistic that you could alter it..?
<Obsidian1723> Well, Open vs Free is a political thing, like GNU/Linix vs Linux.
<Visiblejunk> i know that, thats not technical or hard to understand
<tonyyarusso> Obsidian1723: Dude, this is IRC - like 80% of conversations are arguing semantics!
<Obsidian1723> For all Stallman is for with software, his main concern isn't software at all, but at his core, he is about freedom overall.
<Obsidian1723> hahaha true that tiny, but in what way do you mean, "arguing smenatics"? ;)
<Takyoji> Well, there are distinctions.
<Obsidian1723> tony, I meant
<Visiblejunk> he said seman haha
<Takyoji> Open source is about having source code available and editable. Free software is about persistence of that freedom.
<Visiblejunk> got it
<Obsidian1723> Still, I think people can get too caught up in the minutuae and miss the larger picture of things, be it religion, software, anything.
<Takyoji> BSD licenses are OSI-approved, but not considered "free software"
<Obsidian1723> right
<Takyoji> In the end, it's really all about spreading Communism and Linux zealotry. :D
<Obsidian1723> YES!!!
<Visiblejunk> so back to the point, they are both monolithic then?
<Obsidian1723> Windows yes, Linux no.
<Visiblejunk> hrurm reread time
<Takyoji> Don't you mean the opposite?
<Takyoji> Also, isn't Windows like a hybrid of two structures?
<Obsidian1723> no
<tonyyarusso> uhhhhh, BSD licenses are totally free software.  Just not FSF-friendly.
<Takyoji> Ooo, diagram: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_kernel
<Obsidian1723> Windows started out as a GUI which ran on top of DOS, back in the Windows 3xx days
<Obsidian1723> well, before that too of course
<Takyoji> When I say "free software" I'm referring to the FSF definition. :P
<Takyoji> FREE AS IN FREEDOM, NOT FREE BEER!
<Takyoji> You alcoholics..
<Obsidian1723> You ran MS-DOS, and if you wanted or needed to, you could boot Windows, but you didn't NEED to boot Windows until Windows95.
<Takyoji> :P
<Visiblejunk> myst and duke3d days you mean..?
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: "A free license may also permit other ways of releasing them; in other words, it does not have to be a copyleft license. However, a license that requires modified versions to be nonfree does not qualify as a free license. "
 * Obsidian1723 still has a copy of Windows 3.1.1.
<Visiblejunk> was there other gui's for pc's that booted from dos?
<Obsidian1723> Not that I remember. for al ong time, no one used a GUI.
<Obsidian1723> Linux is like DOS on acid.
<Visiblejunk> save that for the race war zombie apocolyspe , might come in handy
<Takyoji> Not from DOS
<Takyoji> What was of OS/2?
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: That's from the FSF Free Software Definition article, btw.
<Obsidian1723> When I started out, MS was a 3 year old company hahaha
<Takyoji> Why didn't you blow up their HQ then? D:<
<Visiblejunk> ok skeletor
<Obsidian1723> had I of known............
<Obsidian1723> besides, watching that assclown Ballmer is fun.,
<Takyoji> Why oh why did Sun have to buy VirtualBox, and then Oracle buy Sun?
<Obsidian1723> VB 4 is out now...
<Takyoji> Was MySQL originally independent, or was it a product of Sun?
<Takyoji> I know, I installed it last night
<Obsidian1723> me too
<Takyoji> I laugh at how Ballmer reacts at things
<Obsidian1723> I met that guy once.
<Takyoji> When he laughs at competition, say's they're (Microsoft) better, but the competitor prevails. xP
<Obsidian1723> wack job
<Obsidian1723> yeah
<Visiblejunk> its all about the confidence man
<Takyoji> They still can't even get an iPad imitation out yet. xP
<Visiblejunk> lol
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: MySQL was originally independent, a project of Monty Widenhaus.  He sold it either directly to Sun or possibly through another step.  Monty is now the head of Monty Program AB, the firm behind the MariaDB fork.
<Takyoji> ahh
<Visiblejunk> yeah ms is not the future... or so it looks atm
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: (also, mneptok works for M.P. AB)
<Takyoji> MariaDB; that's..
 * Takyoji tries to remember the correct term
<Takyoji> A non-relational database, with MySQL as the backend, yus?
<tonyyarusso> No.
<tonyyarusso> Not at all.
<Obsidian1723> Did you hear the latest? That are taking WindowsCE for the portability factor, ME for the simplicitic hardware support, and finally NT for the robust nature, and combining it all ine one cohesive OS to be called WindowsCE-M-ENT. Of course it will be so heavy, I doubt it will ever boot up.
<Visiblejunk> do you guys ever meet in person?
<tonyyarusso> MariaDB is the MySQL code, minus the MySQL trademark, plus patches.
<tonyyarusso> occasionally, yes.
<Takyoji> I've heard that gag before. :P
<Takyoji> ahh; didn't know
<Visiblejunk> hmm any upcoming?
<tonyyarusso> There's a LUG in the Twin Cities area that has significant overlap with this group that meets once a month at TIES in St. Paul.
<Takyoji> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mojgIVwQqaQ
<tonyyarusso> Google for "Penguins Unbound".  If you follow the mailing list, the guy who runs it is Brian Dolan-Goecke, and he sends announcements a little bit ahead of time.
<tonyyarusso> We'll probably organize LoCo events for the next releast in April if nothing else before then.
<Takyoji> Anyway, as I was saying; anyone think Unity is like Windows 7 and Mac OS X in one? :P
<Takyoji> (earlier)
<Obsidian1723> what do ya think of wayland?
<Takyoji> Is Wayland the X11 replacement; also to be in 11.04, or?
<tonyyarusso> yeah
<tonyyarusso> I don't think Natty has it though.
<Takyoji> Kind of pathetic that Unity seems to require 3D graphics acceleration..
<Takyoji> When I was running it in Virtualbox, it complained about such, and just booted a normal GNOME environment
<Takyoji> But when I installed guest additions, and enabled 3d graphics acceleration, it did load when I restarted.
<Visiblejunk> ok that whole nascar reference reminds me of this video, all of you if you are proper minnesotan yanks will die watching this
<Visiblejunk> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Z0Z0WhL2aE
<Obsidian1723> wayland is the x.org replacement, probably post 12.04LTS, but supposedly, Fedora 15 will have it.
<Obsidian1723> code is still too wet, like Unity.
<Takyoji> But yea, I'm definitely all for Wayland
<Takyoji> Since I do believe that would be very nice for energy-efficiency
<Obsidian1723> Wyalnd with Compiz heheh
<Obsidian1723> sweet
<Takyoji> rather than piping an X session through the network stack..
<tonyyarusso> The idea is interesting, but a) getting the drivers to work will be hell, and b) really?  Is there nothing else broken that we should bother fixing first?
<Obsidian1723> who knows...
<Obsidian1723> I think for things to crow, to be innovative, change must happen in a major way.
<Obsidian1723> grow
<Takyoji> Got a kick out of the video
<Visiblejunk> haha yeah isn't it ridic
<Takyoji> otherwise I think it should be possible of having some X11/Wayland abstraction layer
<Visiblejunk> no one would blink an eye at you here, maybe a stare or two lol
<Takyoji> and man I haven't seen Brainiac in a long time
<Takyoji> (I believe one of the folks in the video was/is the host for Brainiac)
<Visiblejunk> hmm no idea what that is ...
<Takyoji> I shall show you
<Takyoji> It's pretty much like "British MythBusters": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QheJ2Gc9l2c
<Visiblejunk> ahh cool, hey you on the mailing list for this penguins unbound?
<Visiblejunk> you make a user name or something
<Takyoji> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yex063_Fblk
<Takyoji> They sometimes just post to the ubuntu-us-mn mailing list whenever there's an event hosted by Penguins Unbound
<tonyyarusso> Visiblejunk: PU doesn't have it's own mailing list - they use the one for the now-largely-defunct TCLUG and ours.
<Obsidian1723> TCLUG is defunct?
<Takyoji> I believe so
<Obsidian1723> bummer
<Visiblejunk> hmmm so how do I get on the mailing list?
<Takyoji> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-us-mn
<Visiblejunk> i think im on the mailing list, how often does something interesting come up on it
<tonyyarusso> Depends on how often you post something interesting ;)
<Visiblejunk> there is a whole section of the internet that id say 90% of guys would find interesting ; )
<tonyyarusso> uh, no.
<Visiblejunk> no sense of humor
<Takyoji> I think we really should also advocate the IPv6 transition as well
<Takyoji> since I don't think anyone in Minnesota (as of activists) of doing anything about it
<tonyyarusso> Why would you need activists for that?
<Takyoji> Anyone else agree that the most companies that release open source and proprietary versions, usually overly-cripple the open source version, and really shove the proprietary version?
<Takyoji> Good lord SugarCRM's open source version is so over-commercialized. It's like the whole thing is a big advertisement for the "enterprise quality" (proprietary) version; at least like 7 or so times.
<Takyoji> "Hay look, we're open source, we care! :DDD"
<tonyyarusso> probably true
<rlaager> Takyoji: Patch out the ads in the Debian package then. ;)
<rlaager> But yeah, that sort of behavior is annoying.
<rlaager> By the way, I'm finally getting back to setting up unison for file syncing. It's working well, so far.
<rlaager> My use case is that I want to sync a particular directory on my laptop with my home directory on the file server at work.
<Takyoji> Is there a way to "capture" what is used for an asterisk in bash?
<Takyoji> Because, I don't believe this would really work for example: ffmpeg -i *.VOB (some parameters) *.flv
<Takyoji> In other words, converting non-CSSed DVD video to FLV files.
<Takyoji> As I believe the asterisk in the latter statement would try to look for all .flv files, when that's actually intended to be the output file
#ubuntu-us-mn 2010-12-31
<rlaager> Takyoji: Are you looking for something like this:
<rlaager> for file in *.VOB ; do ffmpeg -i "$file" "`echo "$file" | sed "s|\.VOB$|\.flv|"`" ; done
<rlaager> (That's a little more verbose than is necessary in this particular case, but it illustrates several concepts well.
<Takyoji> I was suggested the following: for file in *.vob; do ffmpeg -i $file <params> $file.flv; done
<rlaager> That will give you output of FOO.vob.flv
<rlaager> And since you're not quoting $file, it'll blow up if any of the .vob files have spaces. That may not be relevant in this case, but it's good to form good habits. :)
<rlaager> And actually, I always forget them, but this is a good use case for the built-in string manipulation features of sh: for file in *.VOB ; do ffmpeg -i "$file" "${file%%.vob}.flv" ; done
<rlaager> Or, to use a different syntax: for file in *.VOB ; do ffmpeg -i "$file" "${file/%.vob/.flv}" ; done
<Takyoji> How are most web applications packaged for Ubuntu?
<Takyoji> The files in a /usr/lib or /usr/bin folder, and then a soft link from the httpd root folder?
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: There's no such thing as "the httpd root folder".
<Takyoji> Then what would be the more correct way of phrasing it?
<tonyyarusso> You create a VirtualHost with a DocumentRoot pointing to the location it's installed in.
<tonyyarusso> Generally a web application is in an interpreted language such as PHP, Python, or Perl, and as such the code is not actually the executable, but should not be changed, and thus belongs in and is packaged to be installed under /usr/share.
<tonyyarusso> Then you just need an entry in /etc/apache2/conf.d/ or /etc/apache2/sites-available/ listing it.
<rlaager> Some drop things in conf.d to enable themselves at /APP_NAME/. I'm not sure how I feel about that.
<tonyyarusso> It's a sane default.
<rlaager> I'd much prefer they actually support being installed on multiple virtual hosts.
<tonyyarusso> What makes you think they don't?
<rlaager> I've used them.
<tonyyarusso> ALL of them?  ;)
<tonyyarusso> (Drupal does.  This is my most important data point.)
<rlaager> heh, no, just the ones I care about
<rlaager> Examples: PHPMyAdmin, Wordpress
<tonyyarusso> I believe zenphoto does as well.
<tonyyarusso> pssh, stop using child's toys.
<tonyyarusso> :P
 * tonyyarusso trolls
<tonyyarusso> also, WordPress totally has a multisite capability - it's just not as elegant as Drupal's.
<tonyyarusso> Supposedly it's better now.  http://codex.wordpress.org/Create_A_Network
<rlaager> I'm talking about the packages anyway.
<rlaager> Oh, this isn't right anyway.
<rlaager> That assumes they're all under the same administrative control.
<tonyyarusso> err, you're not root?
<rlaager> I'm root, running a shared hosting webserver for customers.
<rlaager> Maybe I'm misunderstanding what they're saying about wildcard hostnames.
<Alpha_Cluster> hey anyone know if there is a way to control a web browser on one box from another one say via ssh?
<tonyyarusso> Alpha_Cluster: ssh -X
<Alpha_Cluster> lol yeah but i want to say show a window on the main screen and then control the web browser from ssh
<tonyyarusso> VNC?
<Alpha_Cluster> yeah i was thinking maybe that
<Alpha_Cluster> i guess i should try and see if it works or if it messes up the flash
<Takyoji> Anyone favor a specific e-commerce solution?
<tonyyarusso> as in, setting up a web site to sell things?
<tonyyarusso> I'd probably use Drupal and ubercart I think
<Takyoji> Yus
<drinane> so i was playing with terminal trying to open a file on a partition other than the main one ( /home or whatever) and it doesn't see it in terminal until I open it in gnome
<drinane> whats that all about
<tonyyarusso> Define "see"?
<drinane> as in i use the command : ls
<drinane> nothing comes up
<drinane> but then after clicking on that partition and looking through it in the gui, and return to the terminal and try the same , ls cd pwd etc. commands it is visible
<drinane> maybe it has to do with , the linux partition and the other partition's different file systems?
<tonyyarusso> Sounds like the partition isn't being mounted on boot, and instead mounted on-demand when you first access it.
<drinane> hmm interesting, I'll look into that, thanks
#ubuntu-us-mn 2011-12-27
<tonyyarusso> Quiet month in here.
