#ubuntu-motu 2005-04-25
<schweeb> did that CC meeting ever end up being rescheduled?
<ajmitch> schweeb: not afaik
<ajmitch> hi bradb
<bradb> hi ajmitch :)
<ajmitch_> hi trulux
* ajmitch_ notes that the irc client is acting up
<ajmitch_> bddebian!
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch_
<ajmitch_> what's up?
<bddebian> Getting my ass kicked in KotOR II.  You?
<ajmitch_> working at uni :)
<bddebian> Fun fun :-)
<dholbach> morning
<Treenaks> morning :)
<dholbach> have a nice day
<GheRivero> rs
<Treenaks> rs?
<GheRivero> res
<GheRivero> Hi again?
<Treenaks> ah ;)
<koke> Hi MOTUses!
<crimsun> hi!
<HostingGeek> HEY koke !!
<Treenaks> HostingGeek: how did you get back in here?
<HostingGeek> koke: tseng wanted to ban me last night with what i said to you.... I guess he doesn't read your blog to understand.... Howto punish him for this servire crime? Hijact all domains to point to your blog? :P
<HostingGeek> Treenaks: Maybe someone didn't know its .au and not .a and gave up and let me stay...
<koke> HostingGeek: what did you say
<koke> I have terrible memory
<HostingGeek> Treenaks: and it will be sick if you ban me for a joke on a joke on koke's blog...
<HostingGeek> koke: nah.. you timed out.. so i don't think you got it
<HostingGeek> koke: I just said "koke: Your poor thing.... you want me to show you howto login?"
<Shufla> hi
<koke>  =.amedias.Ubuntu.breezy-changes [Msgs:1425 New:1394 Inc:17 5,6M] 
<koke> shit! the auto-import has come through breezy-changes@ !!
<crimsun> oh it's just going to get worse
<Amaranth> did it even make it past lib yet?
<Treenaks> crimsun: it is?
<Treenaks> Amaranth: it's at ocaml for me
<Treenaks> openthesaurus
<Amaranth> woo, i might get my breezy-changes accept mail sometime tomorrow
<Amaranth> just in time to miss the sid flood :)
<Shufla> if package is not in universe source and i'd like to check if it's in debian repo then which dist should I look for - sarge, yees?
<crimsun> Shufla: sid
<crimsun> Shufla: if it's not in sid, check wnpp
<Shufla> crimsun: ok.
<crimsun> err, if it's not in sid /or/ experimental, check wnpp
<Shufla> crimsun: well. it's specific program.
<Amaranth> wnpp?
<Shufla> orphans
<crimsun> Amaranth: http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/
<crimsun> it also includes ITPs
<crimsun> those are the ones most relevant if the package you seek is not in sid or experimental
<Amaranth> ah
<Treenaks> not bugs.debian.org/wnpp ?
<crimsun> Treenaks: yes, bugs/wnpp is the de facto url
<crimsun> just pointing Amaranth to an explanation
<Treenaks> ah ok
<Shufla> ok. let's persume that package is not found anywhere in debian/ubuntu. where/what (deb/dsc?) should I send?
<Shufla> (MOTU wikipage is unorganized :()
<crimsun> Shufla: MOTUNewPackages
<Treenaks> or find a sponsor in debian
<Shufla> crimsun: found it right now :)
<Treenaks> (I think we still prefer it if packages are in debian too, right)
<crimsun> Treenaks: yep
<Shufla> ok, thanks a lot, bye :)
* ajmitch wonders if it's time to upgrade his dev box to breezy >:)
<ajmitch> pbuilder is setup now, just waiting on an update
<ajmitch> then we can attack merging & a c++ transition
<\sh> morning :)
<jani> hello
<jani> can anyone try installing evince in hoary? It seems to be 404 here
<jani> was moved from universe to main
* Amaranth heads for bed
<bddebian> Hey folks
<GheRivero> res
<HostingGeek> I hear python is broken in breezy
<HostingGeek> <Amaranth> HostingGeek: I forgot to mention that python is busted in breezy. :)
<bddebian> Doh
<ogra> HostingGeek, breezy doesnt even exist yet....
<HostingGeek> ogra: ogra doesnt even exist yet....
<HostingGeek> ogra: better fix the topic in #ubuntuforums and the mdz email in the devels list
<ogra> HostingGeek, breezy wont exist before some packages are compiled....it just started last night...
<ogra> there is no content yet
<mdz> breezy exists; it's just what we might call a "hostile environment"
<HostingGeek> ogra: the package lists are being made...
<HostingGeek> ogra: mdz annoucned it
<ogra> HostingGeek, if you have only four wheels and a engine in your garage, do you call it a car ?
<mdz> the topic in #ubuntuforums seems sufficiently cautionary ;-)
<ogra> huh, thats a channel ?
<ogra> heh, ...how funny...
<HostingGeek> mdz: while you where there you might of change the topic from "server" to "reps"
<HostingGeek> E: /var/cache/apt/archives/mono-assemblies-base_1.0.5-3_all.deb:  trying to overwrite `/usr/lib/mono', which is also in package muine
<HostingGeek> now thats funny...
<herve> hi
<ogra> hi herve
<bddebian> Hello herve
<herzi> ubuntu updates can be SOOOO boring is a computer has been away for 31 days to be repaired...
<herzi> s/is/if/
<ogra> herzi, but if youre on a stable system once, there are not many updates anymore
<herzi> ogra: stable is boring too (too few new packages/updates)
<ogra> herzi, true :)
<herve> I wonder how one could debug a crash of ps2pdf
<herve> could someone help me in reproducing it?
<Burgundavia> sure
<Burgundavia> what do you need?
<herve> run ps2pdf on the ps file I will give you the url to
<herve> http://deb.oursours.net/motu/itools.ps [666 kB] 
<Burgundavia> which package provides ps2pdf?
<Burgundavia> I also found this: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/groff/2003-03/msg00086.html
<herve> it's gs-common
<herve> it fails on all the hoarys I tried on
<herve> but never on debian testing or unstable
<Burgundavia> failed here
<Burgundavia> i ran 'ps2pdf itools.ps'
<herve> you're running hoary/breezy? what is the "gs" alternative?
<Burgundavia> running hoary
<Burgundavia> seems to fail on page 47
<herve> could you paste the traceback in PM please?
<hsprang> good evening!
<herve> hi!
<herve> hmmm
<herve> now debian fails the same way
<herve> I was sure I tested with the same file...
<herve> so that may be a corrupted ps file produced in the end
<Burgundavia> did you read that email?
<herve> ?
<Burgundavia> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/groff/2003-03/msg00086.html
<herve> ha yes
<herve> double checked but no one answered him
<Burgundavia> taht is over 2 years ago
<herve> I have new clues now I know the ps file is bad
<herve> heya tritium !
<tritium> hey there herve :)
<herve> I guess there exists no postscript validator?
<herve> found pstill
<herve> muhahaha! found the problem
<herve> where could I find packages dated Febuary?
<herve> dia 0.94.0-5 and -6
<bradb> ogra: ping
<ogra> bradb, pong
<bradb> ogra: hi :)
<ogra> hi :)
<bradb> ogra: was wondering: might we be able to start doing weekly meetings on MOTU Malone?
<ogra> yup, it starts to fill...up now that breezy starts....
<bradb> to encourage feedback, and get a better idea of what you're liking about Malone, and what we can do to make your life easier using Malone.
<bradb> ogra: any suggestions for a specific date and time to do this? do you guys have a regularly scheduled MOTU meeting currently? this could possibly be part of that.
<ogra> we have no specific scedule beside we decided to have one meeting a month .... (we had 2 until now, and not scheduled the next date till now)
<bradb> ok...what time are MOTU meetings normally held at? this will give me an idea of what day(s) i could suggest for doing this.
<ogra> we had the first around 17:00 UTC ...
<bradb> oh, wow...our Launchpad meetings are normally at 12:00 UTC. 17:00 is so much easier to be awake for. :P
<ogra> the last one was directly after a CC meeting (about 22:00 UTC)
<bradb> ogra: when was the last MOTU meeting?
<ogra> ugh... goo question... about three weeks ago
<bradb> maybe we can kill two birds with one stone here in scheduling the next MOTU meeting
<ogra> bradb, i'd like to have dholbach around to decide about a date....
<herve> killing birds? what a horrible idea!
<herve> :-)
<bradb> sure. would it be reasonable for us to aim for that meeting in approximately the next week or so?
<bradb> herve: :)
<ogra> he's currently traveling through germany....
<bradb> er
<bradb> that reminds me
<bradb> yeah
<bradb> traveling :)
<ogra> bradb, before UdU ?
<bradb> i'm off to australia on the 22nd, then a week in Tokyo after that
* ogra flys on saturday night
<bradb> so, "in the next week" means before the 22nd for me.
<ogra> before UdU means tomorrow for me....
<bradb> ogra: you'll be at UdU then?
<ogra> not sure if our hostel for the next week has wlan....
<ogra> bradb, yup :-D
<bradb> awesome dude
<ogra> yeah
<bradb> maybe we can BoF things out there then
<ogra> sounds much better then doing a IRC meeting
<bradb> yeah
<ogra> we have about 5 MOTUs around, probably more
<bradb> great
<bradb> is there an MOTU bof already scheduled?
<herve> ogra, s/then/than, you're doing that error quite a lot of times
<ogra> yep
<ogra> oh, thanks :)
<herve> np, I like to be picky :-p
<bradb> ogra: do you have a link to the bof schedule handy?
<ogra> herve, i like to be corrected :)
<ogra> bradb, is there a schedule already ?
<bradb> ogra: well, i thought you said that there was an MOTU BoF already scheduled :)
<ajmitch> morning!
<ogra> there will be a MOTU BOF, but i dont know for when its scheduled...
<bradb> ah, ok
<herve> ajmitch, morning!!
* ogra digs through the schedule
<ajmitch> yeah, I know of 5 MOTUs so far @ UDU..
<ajmitch> there's a schedule? :)
<ogra> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDownUnder/BOFs/UbuntuDownUnderSchedule
<ajmitch> great
<ajmitch> probably far too many things on at once that I want to be at
<ajmitch> like proactive security & expanding universe :)
<ogra> hmm, i'm wondering why hardware database is scheduled four times....
<bradb> we may do this as a separate bof then
<ajmitch> nearly all of them are
<ogra> motumalonebof
<ajmitch> long days - 9am->10pm
<ogra> we have to get done a lot....
<ogra> last time we had 2 weeks....
<ajmitch> yup
<ajmitch> mataro was 2 weeks, right?
<ogra> yep
<bradb> ogra: ok, so, i'll get back to you shortly on what we have planned for a Malone BoF.
<bradb> (maybe later today, maybe in the next few days)
<ogra> great...
<ajmitch> we'll have plenty to talk about :)
<ogra> i cant promise to be online very often next week
<ogra> so a mail is probably better: hostmaster@grawert.net
<bradb> ogra: noted, thanks.
<motaboy> Hi all!
<vasi> hi motaboy
<herve> hi!
<bddebian> Hello motaboy
<herve> hi!
<dholbach> hi
<dholbach> so who of you is man enough for breezy? :-)
<ogra> hehe
<ogra> not me, not now...
<dholbach> me too
<dholbach> but we have some targets in bugzilla
<dholbach> patch-o-magic requires us to do some hand merging
<ogra> i'll switch if the people to blame are around me to poke them with a stick ;)
<dholbach> hahaha, exactly
<herve> er... I do use it
<dholbach> herve: but you didnt upgrade, right? :-)
<herve> I do
<herve> once a day
<herve> twice if I get bored :-)
* dholbach was just kidding :-)
<ajmitch_> updating now! ;)
<herve> right!
<herve> I haven't done it for too long
<herve> 4 hours :-)
<ajmitch_> well, apt-get -dy dist-upgrade
<ajmitch_> not man enough to actually install stuff yet
<herve> muhahaha!
<herve> :-)
<ajmitch_> ok, it'll take a couple of hours to download packages, it seems
<ajmitch_> so we'll have to get started on merging, and especially organising sending patches upstream to debian
* ajmitch_ needs a faster intarweb connection :)
<StoneTable> Mmmm breezy
<dholbach> hey StoneTable :-)
<StoneTable> hey there :)
<GheRivero> res
<StoneTable> getting breezy on my laptop, then I'm ready to rock
<dholbach> unfortunately i have to pack or i would have worked a bit with you :-/
<StoneTable> no problem.  In two weeks I'll be sitting down with with a motu or two and get some hands-on help
<dholbach> breezy will have a shining and gleaming universe
* dholbach can feel it already :-)
<StoneTable> yay
* ogra puts on his sunglasses
<dholbach> haha ogra, just got my brothers ones :-)
<ogra> i have none.....
<ogra> i'll buy some ugly ones in sydney
* dholbach borrowed half of the contents of his trunk ;-)
<StoneTable> oh yeah, have fun at udu.  We're going to have our own little ubuntu-fest at a con in detroit that weekend
<ogra> yeah
<dholbach> WOW
<dholbach> you'll have to report
<\sh> ogra: what i wanted to ask, where is the "Nora" Chain?
<StoneTable> we will.  I'll probably write it up for my column.  I talked one of the motu into doing a packaging session, too, so it should be fun
<ogra> \sh, do i have curls ?
* ogra runs to a mirror
<dholbach> StoneTable: who will all be there?
<\sh> ogra: no, but the picture on your wiki userpage looks like thomas A in the early 80ies
<ogra> yep *g*
<\sh> just joking ;)
<StoneTable> metallikop (he's a motu), schweeb, normally whiprush, but he's going to be at ubu
<StoneTable> http://www.penguicon.org/ is the con
<dholbach> StoneTable: is metallikop alright?
<StoneTable> ya
<dholbach> didn't see him around
<StoneTable> I think he's been busy at work lately
<ogra> me neither for quite some time
<dholbach> ah i see... but as long as you have contact, i'm a bit relieved
<StoneTable> Yeah, he's doing okay, just busy
<dholbach> alright
* dholbach can understand... in the current situtation ;-)
<Kaya> hello
<Kaya> XBGM (xbgm.sf.net), It's a very nice xbox game manager that some may consider as the Qwix
<Kaya> for none-MS Windows OSes.
<Kaya> Now, the software is under the GPL and does not contain any non-free file. You don't need anything non-free to
<Kaya> compile and run it either But, i was wondering if the ubuntu-legal team had anything against that
<Kaya> package since it implies that you have a modified xbox with an alternative OS. There's no way you can use xbgm# if you haven't modchipped or softmodded your xbox.
<Kaya> So... what do you think?  Is that possible to add it to Ubuntu universe
* herve will soon be a motu!
<herve> Kaya, first guess, it conflicts against dmca, no?
<dholbach> Kaya: we have no ubuntu-legal team yet, but could you kindly add a note to a) wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseCandidates or b) wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUNewPackages (ONLY if you are going to package it :-))
<Kaya> i don't think so
<dholbach> herve: herve herve herve !!! :-)
* dholbach can hear the football chants :-)
* herve opens the champagne bottle
<StoneTable> herve:  congrats
<\sh> first i need to be a member of ubuntu and than we will discuss the motu stuff ;)
<herve> Kaya, it's a candidate then, do you know if someone intented to package it in debian?
<Kaya> yes in http://organact.mine.nu/debian/unstable/
<tseng> dholbach!
<dholbach> tseng: tseng? :-)
<tseng> sup
<tseng> MOM is going nuts
<tseng> there are 3429090 changes
<dholbach> MOM?
<tseng> merge-o-matic
<dholbach> yes
<dholbach> that will be fun
<dholbach> but most will be just go-ahead-sync-it
<dholbach> because we just rebuilt
<tseng> yes
<vasi> is MOTU in charge of multiverse as well?
<tseng> yep.
<dholbach> but i'll talk about it at UDU, we need a process for that
<ogra> hmm...what about all these python packages
<Kaya> where do i  add a note to UniverseCandidates  wiki
<herve> go-ahead-sync-it-we-will-clean-the-mess-behind-you
<tseng> ogra: that will blow hard
<ogra> yep
<ogra> vasi, sort of
<vasi> so who do i go to for bugs in multiverse? the Maintainer in the .deb?
<tseng> we need dholbach to join debian
<tseng> and merge them all upstream
<ogra> vasi, see the topic....
<tseng> in one night
<herve> we still have to play with these wiki pages?
<ogra> vasi, for multiverse as well....
<tseng> i wonder if my gpg key works yet
<vasi> ogra, ok i wasn't sure about that :-)
<dholbach> tseng: doko rather for all the python mess :-)
<vasi> thanks
<tseng> dholbach: your the commit hero :-)
<dholbach> tseng: i'm not remotely as clever as he is
* dholbach blushes crimson :-)
<ogra> ... he's idle
<ogra> *g*
<tseng> anyone here upgrade to breezy yet?
<dholbach> tseng: herve did :-)
<tseng> or still waiting for a buildd
<dholbach> he's a REAL man
<Kaya> In order to midify the wiki do i need account?
<tseng> yes Kaya
<ogra> herve is pretending he did
<dholbach> herve ROCKS
<ogra> yeah
<herve> ogra, you want a ssh login to check it all?
<herve> and I'm soon a motu :-p
<dholbach> we need a MOTU council
<ogra> herve, no, thanks :)
<tseng> we need an MOTU fact-kicker-inner
<tseng> *face
<ogra> herve, yep, finally got your key ready
<tseng> thats all.
<herve> ogra, it was not that bad in the end
<tseng> did i tell you about the laser dholbach ?
<dholbach> laser?
<tseng> if i put the laser on the door
<dholbach> what are you going to do?
<tseng> the dog will run smack into it
<tseng> he chases the laser right into walls
<ogra> tseng, lets see how we can make it, but i'd like to see MOTU approving the MOTUs themselves without the need of any meeting...
<tseng> and tries to eat it off the floor
<dholbach> tseng: i will kick your ass badly at UDU, if you hurt your dog :-)
<tseng> well, i like multiple people signing off
<ogra> tseng, sure
<tseng> but yeah, waiting 2 weeks for a meeting is lame
<tseng> lets set up some kind of tracking page
<tseng> where 3 of us sign off on someone
<tseng> sound good?
<ogra> there will always be the memebership first, so one meeting is there anyway
<tseng> oh and um
<dholbach> hrmmhrmhrmhrmhrmhrm
<tseng> TB reviews still
<tseng> just not as a meeting item
<dholbach> we should maybe be A BIT more anal about it
<tseng> it is bad at meetings anyway
<dholbach> so hear about complaints or anything
<ogra> lets see in UdU
<tseng> ok
<tseng> we have a motu meeting scheduled
<dholbach> it won't always be as kittykitty as it is now
<tseng> with us three on the list
<dholbach> erm.. where?
<tseng> on the wiki?
<ogra> oh, do we ?
<tseng> yes?
* dholbach must have been blind
<tseng> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDownUnder/BOFs/UbuntuDevelopment/ExpandingUniverse
<ogra> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MOTUMeeting
<tseng> well
<ogra> thats empty
<tseng> not quite the exact topic
<tseng> but its a meeting of motus at UDU
<ogra> ah, a BOF
<dholbach> yes
<dholbach> and the community building bof
<tseng> we can discuss it there
<tseng> i already added some stuff to that page
<tseng> "requirements"
<ogra> its rather a recitation with discussion
<ogra> then a meeting
<tseng> I see
<tseng> that sounds less productive
<tseng> i dont need a recitation because i was there :P
<tseng> but if its for the benefit of community members, fine
<ogra> at least thats how it was in mataro... 15 min talk, and 30 min discussing, speccin out things etc...
#ubuntu-motu 2005-04-26
<tseng> well looking at the list of people
<tseng> no one needs a 15 minute recap of where we are at
<ogra> tseng, we _hold_ it, we dont attend it...its for the people attending ;)
<tseng> so its for the community?
<tseng> fine then.
<ogra> our names are there because we stand on the stage....
<herve> ogra, "than" :-)
<tseng> ok
<ogra> hehe, herve...ok :)
<herve> wow midnight already?
<herve> but I'm a grownup now, I can stay longer :-)
<tseng> good deal
<ogra> only 779 hwdbsubmissions today :-(
<tseng> only 396 visitors to my blog this month :(
<Burgundavia> ogra, where is that page again?
<ogra> hwdb.ubuntu.com
<Burgundavia> 12000+
<Burgundavia> not bad
<ogra> yep...
<tseng> he needs to bzip it
<Burgundavia> now comes the fun part
<ogra> but the daily count is going down again
<Burgundavia> actually doing something with it
<ogra> after UdU :=)
<herve> ogra, 12,000 xml files without escaped "<" and "&"? :-p
<tseng> i cant stop eating these tortilla chips
<ogra> herve, yup...
<ogra> herve, no problem for a little parser script
<tseng> while you can see the oil seeping through the paper bag
<dholbach> tseng: good thinking :-)
<tseng> dholbach: SOO GOOD
<ogra> herve, i just squeezed the whole stuff to bz2 yesterday, took only 7hrs for 12000 files ;)
<herve> only :-)
<ogra> but it went from 2,5G to 260M
<herve> and people are asking why dpkg doesn't use bzip2 ;-)
<ogra> heh
<dholbach> i'm going to get my stuff together... have a nice time *wave*
<tseng> bye dholbach .
<dholbach> bye tseng
<Kaya> I add a note to wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseCandidates but i saved as plain text
<tseng> oh nose
<tseng> save it again as moin markup please
<Kaya> i try but i get error
<tseng> ok then please stop whatever you are doing
<tseng> cancel your edits while i look at it
<tseng> fixed.
<Kaya> thx
<Kaya> it that ok
<herve> bye all
<herve> I have a couple of dreams waiting for me :-)
<tseng> i think ill debootstrap breezy into a dir for kicks
<zul> hey
<tseng> brandon@lappy:~$ sudo debootstrap breezy ./breezy http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/
<tseng> elmo: No such script: /usr/lib/debootstrap/scripts/breezy
<tseng> buh?
<tseng> irssi you suck
<tseng> elmo: ignore the stupid tab thinger
<elmo> tseng: breezy debootstrap can create breezy
<tseng> ill fetch it by hand then.
<tseng> thanks elmo
<Kaya> when should i expect a answer?
<tseng> an answer to what?
<Kaya> to my request on the wiki
<Kaya> https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/UniverseCandidates
<tseng> i think you broke it again
<Kaya> no it looks ok for me
<tseng> hm it does now that im logged int
<tseng> in
<Kaya> thanks bye all
<dholbach> now really... *wave*
<schweeb> hai everybody
<ogra> hi schweeb
<schweeb> anything much for us to do yet?
<ogra> no, only a huge hill of packages at the horizin
<ogra> horizon even
<schweeb> heh
<schweeb> the buildds are probably having their fun on main right now, I suspect
<ogra> yep
<ajmitch_> I think we have to start merging in changes we made to hoary at some point
<ogra> ajmitch, after the big sync.... lets frst have it synced.... then lest fix
<ogra> lets even
<ogra> Keybuk will forward the bugs from merge-o-matic to malone iirc
<schweeb> oooh, finally using malone for something
<ogra> schweeb, we use it since weeks
<schweeb> ogra: yea, but mostly bugs were manually added, right?
<ogra> yep
<cartel_> schweeb u about
<ogra> but there are already a good bunch of them
<schweeb> yo
<cartel_> schweeb, im trying to apply a top level patch to linux-source-2.6.10
<cartel_>  /usr/src/linux-patches/i386/2.6.10/unpatch/debian
<cartel_> No version.Debian file, assuming pristine Linux 2.6.10
<cartel_> what the hell?
<cartel_> does this not work under ubuntu?
<cartel_> the wiki page says we use dpatches but we dont? what the hell?
<schweeb> here's how I'd do it
<schweeb> vanilla kernel
<schweeb> apply patch
<schweeb> use make-kpkg
<cartel_> im trying to build linux-image
<schweeb> dicking around with the linux-source packages isn's something I usually do
<schweeb> make-kpkg should do everything you need it to do
<cartel_> you dont understand
<schweeb> oh, I do
<cartel_> im trying to build a modified linux-image with a top level patch applied
<schweeb> yes
<cartel_> make-kpkg wont apply the rest of the patches
<cartel_> what i would do under debian is depatch the official tree, apply patch, repatch with debian and then im away laughing
<schweeb> not always possible...
<cartel_> why cant i do something as simple as unpatch?
<cartel_> bug?
<schweeb> because even after unpatching, the kernel sources aren't necessarily vanilla
<cartel_> they should be
<schweeb> in an ideal world, yes
<schweeb> but stuff is taken out for licensing reasons, etc...
<schweeb> you're probably going to have to manually apply the patches one by one, and use make-kpkg
<cartel_> the patch should be an exact delta from the vanilla sources...
<cartel_> otherwise it is impossible to debianise a vanilla kernel
<schweeb> use make-kpkg!
<cartel_> at the very least i should be able to unpatch
<cartel_> ok ill try
<cartel_> so you are saying that not even linux-source-2.6.10_2.6.10.orig.tar.gz is vanilla
<cartel_> i have to get from kernel.org
<cartel_> yes?
<schweeb> right
<schweeb> I'm pretty sure it even mentions this on the wiki and in the README.Debian
<cartel_> whhatt  ehell
<cartel_> i highly suggest kernel team put down the crack pipe
<schweeb> Ubuntu uses a pretty aggressive amount of patches in the first place
<schweeb> you're going to have to manually evaluate what patches are reasonable, and which ones are crack
<cartel_> i know
<cartel_> but my end goal is a linux-image just like the ubuntu one
<cartel_> with one extra patch
<schweeb> didn't I mention this last night?
<cartel_> unfortunately that patch is top level
<schweeb> fabbione is already working on this
<ogra> cartel_, tried #ubuntu-kernel ?
<cartel_> where are his work?
<schweeb> ask him
<schweeb> it's probably not releasable yet
<cartel_> since i have already done this in sarge i should be able to do it in ubuntu with no trouble assuming the maintainers follow policy
<cartel_> save fabbione the trouble
<ajmitch_> morning cartel_
<cartel_> the fact is you may as well not bother including unpatch if it doesnt even work
<cartel_> i mean thats just stupid seriously
<vasi> hey, i'm trying to search at https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/distros/ubuntu/+bugs to make sure my bug isn't already reported...it doesn't seem to work
<schweeb> malone isn't fully implemented yet
<schweeb> search bugzilla
<vasi> ah, it's the same DB?
<schweeb> no
<cartel_> schweeb: lets see if the patches even apply to vanilla source properly ;)
<schweeb> bugzilla is still the primary bug tracker for Ubuntu
<cartel_> unless you are reportbug against a package in universe
<cartel_> use bugzilla
<schweeb> do reportbugs from universe go to Ubuntu?
<schweeb> if they don't, I wouldn't use it.
<cartel_> reportbug doesnt even go to bugzilla man
<cartel_> it just sends an email
<schweeb> I understand.
<schweeb> I mean does it get sent to Ubuntu or Debian mail list
<schweeb> universe is NOT supported by the Debian Maintainer of the package... so the bug report shouldn't go to them
<ogra> vasi, you can file bugs about malone in malone ;)
<vasi> lol ogra, sure
<cartel_> i know
<ogra> cartel_, reportbug sends to ubuntu-users@...
<schweeb> ah, good
<cartel_> schweeb: there is a wikipage for building ones own kernel-image that mentions dpatches. linux-patch-ubuntu isnt a dpatch
<schweeb> note: reading debian.README in /usr/share/doc/linux-source-2.6.10 says to use make-kpkg....
<schweeb> and I know there's documentation for automatically patching using make-kpkg somewhere
<koke> hi all!
<ogra> instead of guessing, you two should probably discuss it in #ubuntu-devel, since there are people that know about these packages....
<ogra> rather then here....
<ogra> hi koke
<schweeb> I'm done with the discussion *shrug*
<cartel_> what a joke
<cartel_> schweeb: patch doesnt apply to vanilla.
<schweeb> it's all pretty well documented
<\sh> wow..i can't see anything anymore than sourcecode...my brain must be damaged
<cartel_> where?
<schweeb> \sh: I find drinking till you can't see the sourcecode anymore to be helpful
<cartel_> dox i have seen were for warty now outdated
<cartel_> eg, dpatches..
<schweeb> cartel_: none of this is distro specific or branch specific
<\sh> schweeb: nono..no time for drinking (ok coffee yes) writing a difficult howto ;)
<schweeb> and documentation for make-kpkg and friends is included with their respective packages
<cartel_> well the instructions are no longer relevant so yes it is specific, you may not wish it to be but it is.
<cartel_> maybe i am having a bad day and i should go home and sleep
<cartel_> hehe
<\sh> anyone interested to test the first stage of a howto description?
<Burgundavia> sure
<\sh> https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/HowToBuildDebianPackagesFromScratch
<\sh> but hard stuff
<\sh> bug fixing later on ;) write everything to sh@sourcecode.de I will take care about it later...
<schweeb> \sh: you set up a chroot AND a pbuilder? isn't that a bit redundant?
<\sh> schweeb: no ;)
<\sh> schweeb: finally i messed my system with all my tests ;) thats the reason why, I want to have a clean build enviroment and clean chroot right now ;)
<\sh> and I don't like complaints from user: "Hey because of your howto i screwed my system" thats the reason why the setup is just like this, right now, later on, i will change it :)
<schweeb> maybe you should mention that the chroot is optional
<\sh> well, the pbuilder inside the chroot is optional ;)
<\sh> the pbuilder env can be setup in the mainsystem.
<\sh> i need a pause
<schweeb> I don't see much reason for the chroot at all :)
<schweeb> as long as you don't randomly go around manually make installing stuff, you should be fine
<schweeb> :)
<\sh> schweeb: u gave the answer ;)
<schweeb> so, the chroot is optional, as long as you're not a total jerk!
<schweeb> (the pbuilder is however, definitely not optional)
<\sh> schweeb: playing users are jerks at all, old support helpline thoughts ;)
<\sh> schweeb: ok, let's write it like this in the pbuilder section: the pbuilder enviroment can also be build outside the chroot, inside chroot this pbuilder env is only for hardcores who are messing their host system with randomly compiled and installed source packages ...
<\sh> schweeb: and I'm a jerk as well...I'm messing my system from time to time :)
<schweeb> heh
<schweeb> I would suggest mentioning the --prefix configure option
<schweeb> so people don't randomly go make installing to /
<schweeb> but still get the benefit of seeing what the installed directory structure looks like
<\sh> schweeb: hehe...check the source of ming....it's a quite funny things...bugs over bugs ;)
<\sh> mainly ming-0.2a is a funny package
<schweeb> another downside to your method is that users then have 3 separate Ubuntu environments to keep updated
<schweeb> well, 2 if they're building on a non Ubuntu box
<schweeb> but for most users, the main system, the chroot, and the pbuilder...
<\sh> schweeb: or 5 if they're playing around with breezy ;)
<schweeb> why target anything else?
<schweeb> changes to hoary aren't too useful anymore
<\sh> schweeb: it's only a walk through...and hoary is stable enough to show some stuff...:)
<schweeb> heh
<\sh> didn't play with breezy right now, I setup the chroot for breezy but didn't try to compile stuff, waiting for the g++ transition
<schweeb> is everything even rebuilt with gcc4 yet? the buildds are probably still pretty busy rebuilding main
<\sh> I remember the time, when I wrote a howto for gentoo users how to create a livecd with catalyst with xfce4, firefox, thunderbird and openoffice
<\sh> schweeb: thats another thing :)
<\sh> some gentoo users send me hate letters, like: "Why do u have to compile ooffice from scratch"
<\sh> and I send them back: "Because it's fun, and you know how much work that is to build a nice livecd"
<schweeb> gentoo users complaining about compiling?
<schweeb> how ironic
<\sh> mostly if they're using openoffice-bin ebuilds ;)
<schweeb> I'm pretty anti-gentoo-ricer
<\sh> I'm not :)
<schweeb> hrm, I should do my taxes
<\sh> but only because I can setup my servers with special kernel optimizations for stuff like gameservers etc. and for that, binary distributions are quite heavy to maintain...:(
<\sh> IMHO :)
<schweeb> what do kernel optimizations have to do with the user space, may I ask?
<\sh> schweeb: there are some things, you can do on the kernel source, to optimize speed and other things. there are a couple of patches in the world, which gives u more optimization for networks etc. so it's quite nice for gameservers. but only just because the supported gameservers like counterstrike are writte terribly
<\sh> need another can of coffee..
<schweeb> right, but anything you change in kernel space helps you out in user space no matter whether you compiled your user space or whether it's a binary distro user space
<\sh> schweeb: thing is, those gameserver are binary only...
<\sh> so u can't change things in the userspace and you have to adjust things in kernel space...
* schweeb is still confused
<\sh> schweeb: check counterstrike servers for linux...they're provided binary only
<schweeb> I wasn't commenting on the binary servers
<schweeb> you said binary distributions are heavy to maintain.... and that kernels are harder to patch on binary distributions (completely untrue)
<schweeb> I'm saying you can do the same kernel things using a binary based distro like Ubuntu that you can do with a source based distro like Gentoo
<\sh> schweeb: right, but the way how to maintain it is quite different.
<schweeb> meh.
<\sh> schweeb: it's easier to maintain a patchset and a vanilla kernel source inside a ports/portage tree, than to create a lets say rpm source package or debian source package and putting them as binary packages on the server.
<\sh> we did it @lycos europe. playin around with hundreds of debian (woody) based servers,
<\sh> and have the time to create packages for your systems.
<schweeb> make-kpkg ?
<schweeb> am I the only one that knows about make-pkg?
<\sh> :) yeah :) but to maintain 5 different patchsets of kernel patches and provide them to the right machines :) it takes some time to setup this infrastructure..
<\sh> and for 13 or lets say under 50 servers it's easier to setup a cvs tree and provide some ebuilds for different purposes
* schweeb still hasn't been convinced of anything :p
<\sh> @lycos it was just like this: create patches for 5 different x86 kernel layouts, test them, test them with applications applied, make debian packages, update 5 different apt-get repositories, update all the machines and distribute the new packages via cfengine
<\sh> the infrastructure was different than I have it here :)
<schweeb> you could have appended a string to the version to each of the 5 different kernels :p
<schweeb> since they're named linux-image-2.x.x-blah anyways ;)
<\sh> schweeb: no..:) all of our 5 different x86 boxes had different work orders ;) so we had a couple more self made packages
<\sh> and the sources.list of those were different at this time
<Burgundavia> ogra, poing
<\sh> but it was more the problem of the purchase department
<\sh> nevermind  :) you can do all the work with all distros if you want....via locally installed version of redhat network for rpm based distros, or local apt-get repositories for debian based distros etc. pp.
<\sh> finally I worked with all of them...
<ogra> Burgundavia, pingeling
<\sh> redhat network when i was working for rh
<Burgundavia> ogra, am working on the gis stuff
<\sh> apt repos at lycos
<Burgundavia> ogra, looking for stuff that is in debian
<Burgundavia> ogra, etc.
<\sh> and plain cvs ebuild trees right now ;)
<ogra> Burgundavia, ?
<Burgundavia> ogra, take a look: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/UbuntuGIS
<ogra> ah, yep
<Burgundavia> ogra, that useful?
<ogra> i saw today that grass 6.0 and mapserver is in debian already, will make it a lot easier...
<Burgundavia> figured if we sort out what is not in debian, then those who know gis can figure out what we actually need to package
<ogra> Burgundavia, OH
* ogra just looks at the paga again
<ogra> WOW
<Burgundavia> not finished yet
<Burgundavia> only on D :)
<ogra> woah, thats quite nice
<ogra> hmm,  Avpython - for Arcgis ?
<ogra> why is that not useful ?
<Burgundavia> arcgis is a commericial gis app
<ogra> whats the prob with that....
<Burgundavia> figured we would want to concentrate on a complete oss stack
<Burgundavia> arcgis is a bitch to install, btw, I have done it
<ogra> the plan is to encourage ISVs to provide ubuntu packages and to have a good default set of OSS apps
<Burgundavia> ahh
<Burgundavia> ok
<Burgundavia> I will list under "need commericial app"
<ogra> so something like avpython could go into a ubuntu-gis-commercial metapackage
<Burgundavia> yah
<Burgundavia> there is a ton of stuff out there
<Burgundavia> need to weed out a lot of the chaff
<ogra> the free stuff in a ubuntu-gis pkg...
<Burgundavia> once we figure out what is in debian, we can figure out where in the stack it fits, and what else occupies that niche
<ogra> yep
<Burgundavia> ok
<Burgundavia> this is going to take a few hours, so I will get back to it
<ogra> wow, great work, really
<\sh> *yawn*
<ogra> Burgundavia, look at this: http://plonemap.makina-corpus.org/
<Burgundavia> nifty
<ogra> python and plone.... sabdfl will like it i guess...
<ogra> looks like a good candidate for UbuntuWorldWide
<Burgundavia> is it packaged for deb/ubu?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> but a good candidate
<\sh> grmpf...fighting with dsl disconnection and dircproxy
<ajmitch_> tired already, \sh?
<\sh> ajmitch_: a bit :) but my coffee can is refilled right now :)
<\sh> ajmitch_: u know, with 34 u are not able to have a 24 hour day without sleep anymore ;)
<ajmitch_> hehe :)
<ajmitch_> thi sirc client is annoying - it sometimes doesn't show the last 10 lines or so
<thom> ajmitch_: which?
<\sh> ajmitch_: and if you're overdoing it without sleep, you will look like ogra ,-)
<schweeb> ajmitch_: use irssi, it's the best ever
<ogra> \sh, nooo, youre mistaking me, i'm adjusing myself for the new TZ ;)
<\sh> ogra: hahaha
<ajmitch_> using bitchx in screen - probably an issue with screen resizing
* ogra looks at #9714 and lols -- Your friendly neighbourhood MOM
<schweeb> bitchx - 10% IRC client, 90% quit message :P
<ajmitch_> probably
<thom> schweeb: not even 10% ;-)
<schweeb> thom: lol
<\sh> well...I think we will never get the coolness of Bero
<\sh> First time i met him, it was 2000 in stuttgart, and he packaged kde rpms
<\sh> I think he never used kde, but he was responsible for the rpm packages.
<\sh> so, he used pine for his email stuff, plain vi for editing and changelog messages and ircII as irc client...and nothing in a xterm..only plain console...this guy was really scary :)
<\sh> and the most scary thing was he worn sandals
<\sh> but he is a genius
<\sh> i should write a book about open source devs ;)
<\sh> I can't see anything anymore...time to sleep ...
<\sh> cya laters
<dholbach> morning
<schweeb> so where are you hailing from now, dholbach
<dholbach> my parents place
<dholbach> but will visit a friend later, then my sister (fix her computer) and then an ex-girlfriend
<ajmitch_> on your global tour :)
<dholbach> will start getting global tomorrow evening ;-)
<ajmitch_> heh
<ajmitch_> I don't fly out to sydney for another week
<ajmitch_> I don't even spend enough time on the plane to flatten the laptop battery ;)
<dholbach> but you won't have to struggle through some days of jetlag for that tiny hop :-)
<dholbach> hahaha :-)
* ajmitch_ will join the 0.5million other kiwis in .au ;)
<dholbach> :-)
<ajmitch_> I'll probbly see you on the 24th in the afternoon/evening
<ajmitch_> since I'll be doing other stuff on the saturday
<ajmitch_> & sunday morning
<dholbach> cool :-)
<dholbach> i never thought we'd meet each other THAT fast :-)
<ajmitch_> heh
<ajmitch_> what's the current UDU MOTU count?
<dholbach> you, me, ogra, Riddell, tseng, koke, so 6, right?
<dholbach> enough to flatten every "main" beachvolleyball team ;-)
<ajmitch_> ah yes, Riddell is still a MOTU :)
<dholbach> sounds like some made-up baby language UDU-MOTU :-)
<ajmitch_> haha
<dholbach> bye
<siretart> hi
<siretart> katie is very nice, she sent my an email that my package has been accepted to ubuntu: pong2 :)
<d3vic3> he
<d3vic3> heh
<ajmitch> great :)
<koke> hi motus!
<ajmitch> hey koke!
<ajmitch> when are you going to .au?
<koke> I arrive 24 at 05:55 AM
<ajmitch> ouch, that's early :)
<ajmitch> long flight?
<koke> yeah !
<koke> quite long
<ajmitch> about 3 hours for me
<koke> I left home 22 at 08:00 AM :D
<koke> it was more like that for me in mataro
<ajmitch> where are you?
<siretart> can anyone of you recommend me a good, usabel python plugin for eclipse?
<koke> Zaragoza, Spain
<ajmitch> siretart: sorry, I've hardly used eclipse
<ajmitch> I mainly use emacs :)
<siretart> :)
<siretart> perhaps I sould switch back to xemacs..
<koke> hey, are you already using breezy
<koke> ?
<koke> I'd like to know how painful is before upgrading
<ajmitch> nope, haven't upgraded yet
<koke> I need a working system :D
<ajmitch> :)
<ajmitch> you've still got a week to fix it ;)
<siretart> pydev.sf.net looking promising.. lets see
<ajmitch> koke: do you think I should upgrade now :)
* ajmitch starts dist-upgrade
<koke> actually I just need vim+ssh+a browser to work
<koke> so I'll do it!!
<ajmitch> died pretty quick
<ajmitch> Preparing to replace linux-kernel-headers 2.5.999-test7-bk-17 (using .../linux-kernel-headers_2.6.11.2-0ubuntu2_i386.deb) ...
<ajmitch> Unpacking replacement linux-kernel-headers ...
<ajmitch> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/linux-kernel-headers_2.6.11.2-0ubuntu2_i386.deb (--unpack):
<ajmitch>  trying to overwrite `/usr/include/asm/kdebug.h', which is also in package amd64-libs-dev
<koke> :D
<ajmitch> cool, I wonder if I've screwed up glibc yet :-D
<koke> update-manager scares me with 358 updates available :)
<koke> ouch perlpanel and glade-gnome-2 are broken :(
* ajmitch points a finger at jbailey 
<ajmitch> it's already in bugzilla, so nothing I can do :)
<ajmitch> I can't install anything yet
<koke> Oh mY dOg! I'm not going to remove tomboy
<ajmitch> haha
<Amaranth> koke: libgda update did that
<koke> I see
<Amaranth> koke: Doesn't matter, tomboy won't run anymore for me anyway.
<koke> I'll keep the old version, here we go....
<ajmitch> Amaranth: you've managed to upgrade to breezy?
<Amaranth> Repeat: tomboy doesn't work on breezy
<Amaranth> More or less.
<ajmitch> interesting
<Amaranth> I had to downgrade gazpacho to make it work, otherwise no major issues.
<ajmitch> not even this linux-kernel-headers issue?
<ajmitch> which is one of the first packages to upgrade?
<Amaranth> what issue?
<ajmitch> file conflict with amd64-libs-dev
<Amaranth> Ah, I'm on i386
<ajmitch> which gcc-4.0 depends on
<ajmitch> on i386 as well
<ajmitch> and l-k-h is needed by libc6-dev :)
<Amaranth> I don't have an amd64-libs-dev
<ajmitch> interesting
<Amaranth> Why would I? I'm not on amd64
<ajmitch> it's a package for i386, for building amd64 stuff
<Amaranth> oh
<ajmitch> bug is filed, so someone will fix it
<ajmitch> I'll just leave the upgrade for another day :)
* tseng upgrades his breezy chroot
<\sh> morning guys
<tseng> hi
<\sh> why the hell i can always sleep only <6 hours
<Treenaks> \sh: eternal jet-lag?
<koke> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/mono-assemblies-base_1.0.5-3_all.deb (--unpack):
<koke>  trying to overwrite `/usr/lib/mono', which is also in package libdbus-cil
<koke> doh!
<\sh> Treenaks: no..i think it's my age...older people are needing less sleep than younger people ;)
<tseng> koke: thats been a problem forever
<tseng> dpkg -i -- force-overwrite it
<koke> tseng thanks :D
<GheRivero> res
<tseng> koke: np
<tseng> is anyone taking notes on the proposed development handbook?
<tseng> i want to be sure to include some bits on proper proceedure for doing a cvs/svn release
<Treenaks> there is one? :P
<tseng> well ive seen some really broken ones
<Treenaks> oh yes
<tseng> the guy that did 3rd party mono totally effed his snapshot
<tseng> i couldnt easily uupdate on it
<tseng> as he named it releasefinalver-enoch
<Treenaks> tseng: a bit about version numbers would be nice too
<tseng> yep
<tseng> the new maint guide covers most things, but misses a few that are important to motu
<tseng> and is boring to read
<Treenaks> especially that
<tseng> i think it would be useful if it started with cdbs, and the sample package
<Treenaks> and if it was written in a more informal style
<sivang> howdy all!
<tseng> without making you learn every debian{install,files,foo} first
<Treenaks> hey sivang
<sivang> talkinga bout an ubuntu developmetn book?
<tseng> that would be more ofa reference laster
<tseng> -s
<sivang> Treenaks: Yo dude, 'sup?
<tseng> yes, but i cant type
<tseng> so i should be excluded :P
<Treenaks> tseng: you're better than I am
<tseng> heh.
<tseng> i haver a very busy weekend
<tseng> and then we have UDU
<tseng> we can talk about it more there
<Treenaks> well, I'm not coming to UDU :(
<tseng> :(
<Treenaks> but I will go somewhere this year
<tseng> great.
<Treenaks> no idea where yet though :)
<Treenaks> not guadec, not debconf, maybe linuxtag..
<Treenaks> "the next ubuntu conference", for sure :)
<tseng> well hopefully i find sometime to start a draft
<tseng> the new maint guide looks like a big stumbling block to me
<Treenaks> oh, and I plan on doing a micro tour of europe anyway... just to do some keysigning/beer drinking/etc :)
<tseng> mm keysigning
<Treenaks> nothing concrete yet though
<Treenaks> tseng: well, not just keysigning.. also a little (very little ;)) sightseeing etc.
<tseng> hah.
<koke> wel, sooo, I'm on breezy now :D
<koke> but I'm not breave enough to restart gnome :D
<\sh> dholbach: ping
<ajmitch> \sh: he's absent
<\sh> right...i should look at the nicklist first ;)
<ajmitch> tab-completion helps ;)
<\sh> tab-completion?
<\sh> ;)
<\sh> where r those days, where plain ircII was the standard for irc ;)
<ajmitch> long gone
<\sh> sad but true
<\sh> coffee time and working on the howto
<jbailey> ajmitch: Nope.  I have that bug, and just haven't done that package yet.
<ajmitch> jbailey: doesn't bother me too much, I'm not in  much of a rush to upgrade just so I can have the 'latest'
<ajmitch> since it's only a 400MHz headless box anyway - I run GNOME using a remote Xnest ;)
<Ben2004uk> hey,  i would really like to get involved in the ubuntu community,  i was just wondering how
<ajmitch> great, you want to do packaging, coding, doc writing, other?
<ajmitch> I'm sure there's plenty around ;)
<Ben2004uk> well ive never worked on a project before - done a bit of coding - C, Java, Ruby,  and I can write English fairly well :)
<Ben2004uk> but i'm willing to do anything really
<ajmitch> not done any debian/ubuntu packaging?
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> well, there's a few of us MOTUs
<ajmitch> who have to care for about 15000+ packages in universe
<Ben2004uk> no,  so hoping someone could point me in the direction to start....
<ajmitch> www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MOTU is what we are
<ajmitch> which has some resources linked on that, if you care to help out in that area
<Ben2004uk> cool
<ajmitch> the massive sync from sid has just been done, so we need to get on top of merging patches, doing QA, etc :)
<ajmitch> I'm not sure who'll still be around here in the next week or two
<ajmitch> some people have started travelling already to the conference
<Ben2004uk> oh right
<Ben2004uk> so how should I start?
<ajmitch> for packaging, there are various materials such as the debian new maintainers guide to look at
<ajmitch> we're only working on breezy now, which is a little rough around the edges at the moment ;)
<Ben2004uk> :D
<Ben2004uk> yeah cause i looked in here just before hoary was released but i thought it was the wrong time to start as everyone seemed really busy
<ajmitch> https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/UniverseCxxTransition <-- we've got a lot of packages that will eventually need fixed up for g++ 4.0
<ajmitch> although 3.3 is still default for c++ compiling
<Ben2004uk> so i take it, they would need to be compiled from source in 4.0,  checked for bugs again then packaged then checked then added to universe?
<ajmitch> the source will already be in universe
<ajmitch> once g++-4.0 is default, we have to compile, test, fix, upload fixes
<ajmitch> we only do source uploads to ubuntu
<Ben2004uk> whens 4.0 default?
<Ben2004uk> oh rtight
<ajmitch> dunno yet, check with jbailey :)
<Ben2004uk> :)
<ajmitch> or doko, but he's not around
<Amaranth> after udu is what i've been hearing
<jbailey> Eh?
<Ben2004uk> brb
<jbailey> Oh, c++ transition.
<jbailey> Massive suck.
<ajmitch> Amaranth: yeah, afaik
<jbailey> The problem is that there are package renames to be done and all that to make upgrades smooth.  We have to figure out how to sanely do that and 1) Not diverge from Debian to the point that it's hard to resync. 2) Not have a tiny MOTU base doing working that would usually be spread out over 1000 developers.
<ajmitch> jbailey: if we get common agreement with debian on versioning, etc, it should make it easier for debian when we push changes back
<Amaranth> If everything is going to get a new package name how are upgrades going to work?
<jbailey> ajmitch: Dude, Debian usually can't agree with itself on transitions like this - We're not going to get a simply blanket agreement on the right way to do things.
<Amaranth> I bet they'll be willing to accept it after it's done though.
<ajmitch> jbailey: true, sadly
<ajmitch> hah
<ajmitch> you don't know how stubborn some developers are
* Amaranth wakes up
<Amaranth> oh, where was i?
<Ben2004uk> back
<Amaranth> it's a little easier when you have 54 people instead of 1000 :)
<jbailey> ajmitch: I don't?
<ajmitch> jbailey: was referring to Amaranth :)
<jbailey> ajmitch: Ah.  I was about to break out with a "When I was your age...."
<ajmitch> how much older are you?
<jbailey> Amaranth: I think size of the team is less important in this case than the CoC and the TB.
<jbailey> Amaranth: I don't know that MOTU would scale to 1000 without problems, but we at least have tools in place to reduce flame wars and get technical decisions made.
<Amaranth> true
<Amaranth> TB and sabdfl
<Ben2004uk> so where do u recommend me starting - reading over Debian New Maintainers' Guide? and then coming back after udu?
<Amaranth> They make a decision and if you don't like it too bad. :)
<ajmitch> Ben2004uk: or if you have packages that you find that need fixing, fix them up, provide source packages for us to review & we'll see what we can do :)
<ajmitch> also submit bugs in malone & in debian bts (if applicable)
<Ben2004uk> malone?
<ajmitch> launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone
<ajmitch> the new bug tracker that we're using
<ajmitch> feel free to make suggestions about improving malone, too :)
<Ben2004uk> cool
<Ben2004uk> looks nicer :)
<Ben2004uk> ive just been offered a job :D
<ajmitch> congrats, what is it?
<Ben2004uk> internship for my placement year at uni
<ajmitch> great
<Ben2004uk> been they said theres two - systems developer and testing so i dont know how they are organising it
<Ben2004uk> they are sending me the spec for the tester position to see what i think of it
* ajmitch works part-time as a php codemonkey ;)
<Treenaks> ajmitch: and the rest?
<ajmitch> uni, and a lab demonstrator job @ uni
<Treenaks> ah
<Ben2004uk> lab demonstrator?? the ppl who walk around and help students?
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> fills up a bit of time, and provides a bit of $
<Ben2004uk> i was pissed my uni didnt offer me that - i got some of the best marks!
<ajmitch> heh
<Ben2004uk> but i did never turn up to the labs so that migthj have something to do with it
<ajmitch> yeah, that does tend to hurt your chances
<Ben2004uk> :)
<Treenaks> I just write perl for money.. full-time
<Ben2004uk> "Trainee Software test Analyst" <---- good position for a someone wanting to go into software developement???
<d3vic3> O.o
<ajmitch> hi d3vic3
<d3vic3> hi ajmitch
<ajmitch> ok, sleep time, night all :)
* trulux is proudly unemployeed
<Treenaks> trulux: richt parents? :P
<Treenaks> -t
<trulux> Treenaks: not really
<trulux> AFAIK
<trulux> :)
<Treenaks> hmm :)
<GheRivero> res
<Mithrandir> we should package the CVS version of multisync
<Mithrandir> since it can sync against evo2 and gnokii stuff
<ogra> we should take the one azeem offers ;) so lets convince him....
<Mithrandir> yeah
<Mithrandir> he's not here now
<ogra> is it urgent ?
<Mithrandir> well, yes, but I'm building it locally now, so no. :)
<ogra> heh
<Mithrandir> I just hope I can get this to work, then I'll be able to sync evo and my phone
<ogra> freeing up for new contacts in sydney ?
<Mithrandir> more "making sure I have a backup"
<ogra> heh
<Mithrandir> and I've been looking for this for a long time, really
* ogra still has a stone age mobile....
<Mithrandir> I want to find a newer one which actually works with BT, since this one is supposed to, but doesn't
<\sh> ogra: pen and paper and a coin phone? ,-)
<Treenaks> Mithrandir: doesn't your phone do syncml?
<ogra> \sh, doesnt keep my numbers.... i tend to loose paper stuff....
<\sh> ogra: hint: take you wife with you :) wifes never loose papers ;)
<\sh> your even
<ogra> \sh, and who cares for all the animals ?
<ogra> (and we're not married btw)
<\sh> ogra: mom ogra
<\sh> ogra: me neither, but it will always be my (ex-)wife :)
<\sh> -it+she ;)
<Mithrandir> Treenaks: no, 6110
<Treenaks> Mithrandir: nasty
<ajmitch> morning
<\sh> ok...I can't work today...need really to relax...watching blade3 cu laters
<tseng> hm i wonder if RML will pop up at UDU
<ogra> tseng, is he in .au ?
<tseng> heading that way
<tseng> according to pgnome
#ubuntu-motu 2005-04-27
<ogra> wooh
<ogra> that'd be cool....
<ogra> i saw him at fosdem last year
<tseng> ugh come on dyer
<tseng> laundry sucks
<tseng> i want to leave
<goedson> Hi ogra.
<ogra> hey goedson
<goedson> ogra: Now that gnomebaker has entered universe and Debian, is there anything I must do to keep it updated in universe or is the synchronization with Debian done automatically?
<ajmitch> hi
<ajmitch> sync done automagically until UpstreamVersionFreeze
<ajmitch> at which point we can request manual syncs of packages in universe
<ogra> goedson, its done automatically...only if you want to make lspecific ubuntu changes you need to touch it
<ogra> -l
<goedson> OK.
<goedson> But Hoary's Univerve is frozen, right? I should backport new versions of the package for Hoary, if I want to prove
<goedson> s/prove/provide such support/
<ajmitch_> he said the word! ;)
<ogra> eeek
<ogra> goedson, but you'd have to keep them in your own repo, uploads go only to breezy now...
<schweeb> ajmitch_: backport backport backport :p
<ogra> booo
<ajmitch_> be glad you're not going to UDU, otherwise we'd have to 'talk' to you
<ogra> hehe
<schweeb> I just said the words, I don't stand behind them :)
<goedson> ogra: right. I thought so.
<goedson> I'm starting to think you are not big fans of backports.
<goedson> :)
<ogra> heh, nope, not really....
<crimsun> wait, did someone say the B word?
<ogra> crimsun, yeah, several times today :-/
<ogra> baaad day
<crimsun> sok I have blinders. I can only see the list of bugs I need to fix ;)
* ajmitch_ still can't dist-upgrade to breezy :(
<ogra> crimsun, lucky you.... i have to rewrite nearly the whole patch for the screensaver ....
<ogra> debian changed a lot
<crimsun> ah, but with coffee it's possible!
<crimsun> out for a bit, bbl.
<trulux> oops
<trulux>   File "/home/lorenzo/proyectos/ubuntu/redhat-logviewer/src/LogBuffer.py", line 117, in insert_into_buffer_at_offset
<trulux>     theiconv = iconv_codec.open(self.codeset, 'iso-8859-1')
<trulux> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'open'
<trulux> I need to check this
<tseng> boggle breez-changes
<tseng> breezy
<ajmitch> yeah, it's filled  up nearly 2% of my gmail inbox ;)
<tseng> but..
<tseng> your inbox is infinty+1!
<tseng> you cant fill it.
<ajmitch> still a lot of mail
<crimsun> that's why I read lists.u.c! :)
<ajmitch> gmane is great for that
<tseng> i like their blog view
<tseng> rss++
<ajmitch> I prefer nntp
<bddebian> Oh shut up ajmitch
<bddebian> ;-P
<ajmitch> excuse me?
<bddebian> I'm a lamer 'cause I haven't sent your laptop yet.. :'-(
<ajmitch> so?
<ajmitch> that has about 0 relevance to amount of ubuntu mail coming in :)
<bddebian> Who said anything about relevance, this is IRC d00d.. ;-)
<ajmitch> true..
<tseng> holy crap, someone wrote a wiki in vim
<ajmitch> that's just sick
<ajmitch> it's expected for emacs, but for vim?
<tseng> yeah.
<Mithrandir> tseng: I'm looking forward to the day I can point and shout "bloat, bloat" at vim.
<Mithrandir> :)
<tseng> hah
<tseng> vim rocks my face
<schweeb> tseng: hahah
<schweeb> I posted the link to that wiki thing just yesterday
<schweeb> hahaha
<whiprush> tseng: ping
<GheRivero> res
<siretart> hi
<ajmitch> hey chaps
<tseng> whiprush: pong
<ajmitch> hi tseng
<ajmitch> how goes the mono packaging?
<tseng> it goes well
<tseng> besides stuff that is ahead in debian
<tseng> gda and sqlite
<ajmitch> did a dist-upgrade to breezy today, it went relatively painlessly
<tseng> and
<tseng> mono apperantly doesnt build against glibc 2.3.4
<tseng> we have .4
<tseng> .5
<ajmitch> yeah
<tseng> not sure how ill work that out
<tseng> but im not running breezy yet
<ajmitch> internal libc symbols, apparantly
<tseng> i asked about it on #mono and miguel said that certainly isnt the case
<ajmitch> another ogra :)
<ajmitch> perhaps it's just binary packages compiled against libc < 2.3.4?
<tseng> i think the build
<ajmitch> where's the 1.1.x packages around for me to test out on breezy?
<tseng> i was running it until he did the gda transition
<tseng> k one sec
<ajmitch> meebey did put them somewhere
<tseng>  #deb http://debian.meebey.net/ ./
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> will download & try compile
<tseng> oh
<tseng> the sources are in svn on alioth
<ajmitch> pkg-mono?
<tseng> yes.
<ajmitch> I've got that checked out on my sid box, one sec..
<tseng> i guess id better upgrade to breezy
<ajmitch> what's needed to build from svn properly?
<tseng> i was hoping you could tell me
<ajmitch> heh
<tseng> something to do with svn-buildpkg
<ajmitch> right
<tseng> ok ill upgrade
<tseng> ive been testing the binaries for a few weeks
<ajmitch> seems to be an awful lot of files in this svn checkout
<tseng> 260 upgraded =/
<tseng> 26 newly installed!
<ajmitch> not too bad
<tseng> oo.org2
<tseng> blah
<ajmitch> :0:> find /usr/local/src/cvs/pkg-mono | wc -l
<ajmitch> 24153
<tseng> oh and 2.6.11
* tseng holds on to chair
<Burgundavia> tseng, upgrades to breezy are going to be fun
<tseng> im doing one now
<Burgundavia> am going to wait a few weeks
<ajmitch> I haven't rebooted yet
<ajmitch> but gnome still comes up ok
* ajmitch doesn't quite follow how they are building the packages with svn-buildpackage
<tseng> i might have a few hours to hack around on sunday
<ajmitch> cli-common is needed, but there's not a complete package there
<tseng> dajobe said the docs blew
<tseng> hm yeah? if something is wrong ask meebey and he will fix
<tseng> cool guy.
<ajmitch> sorry, not a complete package in svn
<ajmitch> maybe mono stuff will have to be discussed at udu as well, since it might get into main for breezy
<tseng> yes
<tseng> jdub gave me beagle
<ajmitch> great
<ajmitch> how's it looking?
<tseng> i mean, he gave me his maintainer badge
<Burgundavia> I am running .9 here, has borked completely, the daemon that is
<tseng> im running beagle .9 on meebeys mono atm
<tseng> works great.
<tseng> Burgundavia: you cant run .9 on our current mono in hoary
<Burgundavia> tseng, I got new mono as well, from the same repo
<ajmitch> what system changes does it require? user_xattr?
<Burgundavia> yep
<Burgundavia> http://www.beaglewiki.org/index.php/UbuntuInstall
<tseng> user+xattr for /home
<tseng> oh jeez
<tseng> the manno repository again
<ajmitch> ?
<Burgundavia> tseng, what is wrong with the manno repo?
<tseng> it sucks
<ajmitch> serious crack?
<tseng> need a list?
<tseng> i have one.
<Burgundavia> if you have a better repo, I would love it
<tseng> just posted
<Burgundavia> where?
<tseng> here
<tseng> but it wont work straight up on hoary, its for sid
<Burgundavia> http://debian.meebey.net/ ./, this one?
<tseng> we'll be working on building it for breezy
<tseng> yes
<Burgundavia> what is borked?
<tseng> it is built against newer sqlite and gda
<tseng> than hoary
<Burgundavia> ok, does that break things?
<tseng> its not installable
<tseng> without work
<Burgundavia> hmm
<Burgundavia> then I will wait until breezy
<tseng> oh jeez that page is by HulaBeagleSeb
<ajmitch> I'll see if these binary packages will work as-is on breezy
* ajmitch hunts for a simple demo app
<tseng> i use tomboy
<tseng> or f-spot has even less deps
<tseng> try f-spot :P
<ajmitch> :0:> tomboy
<ajmitch> mono: relocation error: mono: symbol __libc_stack_end, version GLIBC_PRIVATE not defined in file ld-linux.so.2 with link time reference
<ajmitch> [ajmitch @ athanasius @ 22:50:24 pwd=~/debs/mono/1.1/pkg-mono/pkg-mono] 
<Burgundavia> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=172968
<tseng> ah owned
<Burgundavia> I love this bug
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> will try a recompile
<tseng> ok
<ajmitch> got to find the 0pre4 diff.gz first
<tseng> i will later
<ajmitch> or get it working from svn
<tseng> ask meebey :D
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> he's probably afk
<Burgundavia> tseng, is mono a go for main in breezy?
<tseng> its a go for breezy
<tseng> possibly in main
<tseng> we'll see :P
<Burgundavia> hopefully
<Burgundavia> then we will be the 2nd major distro to ship with it
<ajmitch> yeah, I don't think pnet will be seen in main anytime soon ;)
<Burgundavia> pnet?
<ajmitch> heh, that's one reason why
<ajmitch> dotgnu portable.net
<ajmitch> the other free CLR
<Burgundavia> right
<Burgundavia> why two?
<Burgundavia> why does FLOSS always have to have 2 implementations
<Burgundavia> not really a rant
<tseng> yes i need to go out for most of the day
<tseng> let me know what you find out aj	
<tseng> ajmitch.
<ajmitch> the official story is that pnet started about 6 months before mono
<ajmitch> rhys & miguel never got on
<ajmitch> there was some code sharing, in small places
<ajmitch> and pnet can use most of the higher level class libs
<tseng> i find it hard to not get along with miguel
<tseng> but.. bye :)
<ajmitch> bye tseng :)
<Burgundavia> cya
* ajmitch waits patiently for the mono tarball to download
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: I'm sure you've noticed that about 99% of people who think of C# on linux think only of mono
<ajmitch> which indicates somewhat how things are :)
<Burgundavia> I didn't knwo about .gnu until I found it searching for mono stuff
<ajmitch> pnet was a very impressive undertaking, as it is about 80% rhy's code
<ajmitch> about 1 million lines over about 3 years
<Burgundavia> hmm
<Burgundavia> but mono produced things like fspot and beagle
<Burgundavia> and won the mindshare though pretty apps
<ajmitch> no, people wrote apps like f-spot & beagle on mono
<ajmitch> once mono was well known & popular
<ajmitch> mono had the mindshare already with miguel & ximian backing it
<Burgundavia> mono is increasingly becoming the thing to have
<ajmitch> aha, mono is building
<Burgundavia> all the mee tooers want their beagle
* ajmitch will leave it to simmer for a few hours
<ajmitch> sure, not much useful stuff runs just out-of-the-box for pnet
<ajmitch> there's always the small bugs that held it up
<Burgundavia> ah, the killer small bugs
<ajmitch> and the fact that most work went into the compiler & core libs
<ajmitch> hello bddebian
<ajmitch> this should be interesting to see if a rebuild from source works
<bddebian> Morning ajmitch
<ajmitch> perhaps I should do this on my main box - my breezy box is a little slow
<ajmitch> bddebian: so what's new?
<bddebian> Just woke up.  You? :-)
<\sh> hmmm...
<\sh> theres something wrong with psi
<ajmitch> bddebian: hacking packages again
<\sh> and its wrong in debian/ubuntu
<\sh> no..its wrong in psi
<ajmitch> \sh: feel free to fix it ;)
<\sh> ajmitch: well...i'm comparing packages between ubuntu/debian and gentoo ;)
<bddebian> ajmitch: Hey, why aren't you hackin' on Hurd then?? ;-P
<ajmitch> bddebian: because this is far more fun & rewarding :D
<bddebian> :'-(
<\sh> bugfixes are going also in hoary as updates or sec-updates?
<ajmitch> and I can use ubuntu for work - I can't use the Hurd for a production system
<ajmitch> \sh: only major, critical fixes
<\sh> ajmitch: issues with functionality only for breezy?
<ajmitch> afaik, yes
<ajmitch> at a guess, the same bugfix policy applies to main & universe
<\sh> lemme fix it first ;)
<\sh> cause the gpg stuff is wrong...
<ajmitch> night all
<ogra_> night ajmitch
<\sh> hoi ogra
<\sh> ogra_: you should go and sleep for the night flight ;) so u don't have a jet lag...and drink beer and whiskey during the flight..helps to avoid the jetlag as well ;)
<ogra_> gah, dont drink and fly
<\sh> and I'm fixing this bloody psi gpg thingy here right now ;)
<\sh> ogra_: well...last time I came back from the states...i was looking like a junky...tired, drunk and my eyes, u know, customs checked me on drugs ;)
<Burgundavia> I think I must be missing something
<Burgundavia> I add a .desktop to the sources
<Burgundavia> then I add a install file in /debian with the name of the file and where it goes
<Burgundavia> what else do I need to do?
<Burgundavia> I have been beating my head against a wall for some time now trying to figure out what the heck I am missing
<Burgundavia> as it must be simple
<\sh> *grmpf*
<\sh> problem is in psi itself...it requires normally a gnupg-agent tool...only if you're working with psi --no-gpg-agent it works correctly
<herve> hello
<bddebian> Hello herve
<SeamusLT> Hey guys, when you start rolling out updated packages will they be breezy only or will hoary get some too?
<Burgundavia> only critical bug fixes
<Burgundavia> and some security updates
<SeamusLT> This applies to the universe/multiverse as well?
<herve> sure
<herve> hoary is now rock-solid for production use
<SeamusLT> How much do you guys think I'll break by using a breezy universe/multiverse?
<herve> much if you're not ready
<herve> that's the price of wanting bleeding-edge packages
<SeamusLT> Well I suppose some things would be safe, such as if I wanted to get the latest freeciv or something
<herve> we are transitionning to gcc 4.0
<herve> I'm not confident about a mix of hoary base and breezy binaries
<herve> hi koke
<SeamusLT> herve:  Now that you say that, I'm not either
<herve> SeamusLT, I'll say you should wait a couple of month to switch
<herve> if you're still adventurous, I mean
<koke> hi all!
<herve> SeamusLT, another option is to recompile latest freeciv source package for hoary
<herve> if build dependencies are present of course
<herve> koke, I'm a motu !!!
<SeamusLT> herve Yeah I'm going to do that, probably use dpkg to make it work well with the package management
<koke> herve: great!!
<SeamusLT> herve isn't gcc4 still a beta?
<koke> actually I thought you already were :D
<herve> SeamusLT, I'm not the right person to ask that
<herve> koke, in theory maybe, but my gpg key wasn't approved
<koke> oh, I know
<koke> I can't upload yet :(
<herve> I sympathize -:)
<koke> w0w! I found a quite strange bug
<koke> http://koke.amedias.org/img/ethereal-bizarre.png
<SeamusLT> herve:  Good luck GCC4 then.  I was reading a gentoo thread about a year ago when it was still alpha, about 45 pages of people trying to compile working systems with it
<herve> SeamusLT, I can't really consider gentoo users trying to fsck up their system with an alpha-stage gcc :-)
<herve> koke, hoary/breezy?
<koke> no, hoary
<koke> and a bit outdated
<koke> but it's quite bizarre anyway
<koke> I'll update
<herzi> hi
<herve> hi herzi
<herve> ouch
<herve> the debian package seem in need of DD activity
<herve> koke, I don't have it in breezy
<herve> it's 0.10.10-1ubuntu1
<SeamusLT> herve:  Heh don't know why anyone would want to do such a thing
<\sh> SeamusLT: there r some guys in the gentoo world
<schweeb> this is gonna be... .interesting
* schweeb is going to try to put ubuntu on a SunBlade 2002
<\sh> have fune :)
<\sh> -e
<\sh> nice...my private internet radio is streaming :)
<siretart> has anyone had a look at subterrifics ia32-libs-more package?
<siretart> I found some threads in the forums referencing them
<herve> I guess it's for 64-bit architectures?
<siretart> exactly
<siretart> more 32bit libs for amd64
<herve> I don't think I can help you much
<siretart> well, funny
<siretart> he extracts some libs from i386 arch and copys them into an amd64 binary package
<siretart> no building at all, just copying them over
<siretart> hm. he seems to need libqt3 for skype
#ubuntu-motu 2005-04-28
<herve> re
<herve> is someone running breezy?
<SuperQ> does breezy exist yet?
<herve> sure
<herve> dangerous for you mind and machine, though :-)
<moyogo> running breezy here
<moyogo> so far so good
<herve> moyogo, what version of dia do you have?
<moyogo> 0.94
<herve> moyogo, debian revision? :-)
<moyogo> 0.94.0-5ubuntu1 to be exact
<SuperQ> wooweee.. Debian released woody r5
<herve> thanks
<SuperQ> haha
<herve> damn...
<herve> is there some debian repository wizard still awake?
<crimsun> what's up?
<herve> for pointing up what I missed in the repo I've set up
<herve> s/up/out :-)
<crimsun> k, what doesn't work?
<crimsun> (sorry, had to dig for your repo)
<herve> you should have asked :-)
<herve> because it's http://deb.oursours.net/dists/
<herve> with some config/script one level up
<crimsun> yeah, I just went to MOTUNewPackages instead :)
<herve> I added it to my sources.list
<herve> but none of these packages come out
<crimsun> ah, which tool did you use?
<herve> apt-ftparchive
<herve> ideally, I wanted a pool directory alongside, but found no howto
<crimsun> hmm, aside from http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/repository-howto/repository-howto.html ?
<herve> erm... I remember I read it, but either did not worked or was useful
<crimsun> deb http://deb.oursours.net/dists breezy universe
<crimsun> or s/breezy/hoary/
<herve> I use the former
<crimsun> there are some scattered scripts, lemme see
<herve> gniiiiii... now I get 404 with the unstable dist
<crimsun> checked the debian wiki?
<herve> good point
<crimsun> http://wiki.debian.net/?AptMove seems helpful
<herve> you sure?
<crimsun> (well, you're not generating a mirror, so that's irrelevant, sorry)
<herve> I'm browsing the wiki pages about repos
<crimsun> odd, your files in dist/breezy/binary-all belong in pool
<herve> how can you say so?
<crimsun> just as your dist/breezy/source belong in pool. Rather, they belong in pool/{main,universe}
<crimsun> if you use that layout, pool/main or pool/universe would house the debs,diff.gz,dsc.,orig.tar.gz
<crimsun> your Packages,Release and so on go in dist/breezy[*/*] 
<herve> the repo should not be so structured?
<crimsun> try this: http://small.dropbear.id.au/docs/aptarchive.html
<herve> I used http://familiasanchez.net/~sanchezr/?page=debrepository
<crimsun> ah, let's see
<herve> I'm looking at the apache logs
<herve> nothing to ntoe
<herve> note
<herve> whoops
<herve> you're getting 404
<herve> please remove dists from your deb line :-)
<herve> hmmmm
<herve> I got 404 too
<crimsun> herve: ping mdz, he should know
<herve> fun... I get 304 and 404 but apt won't complain
<herve> no 304 is fine
<crimsun> gah, need to run out, be back.
<herve> crimsun, thanks
<herve> I think I found it
<herve> yes it is
<herve> I need to move to a pool structure
<herve> night all
<crimsun> ah, so I was on the right track after all
<GheRivero> res
<herve> hi
<tseng> hi.
<herve> \sh, ping
<T-Bone> hi
<T-Bone> quick question: there's a bug in one of my packages (which is in hoary universe). what's to be done with it?
<\sh> herve: pong
<Burgundavia> T-Bone, what sort of bug and how bad?
<Burgundavia> and which package?
<herve> \sh, you reported a bug on psi, but both versions or the later is fine?
<T-Bone> a 'normal' bug. prevent the use of the package in some circumstances
<T-Bone> Burgundavia: libapache-mod-musicindex
<\sh> both versions are behaving the same
<\sh> on hoary and breezy
<\sh> and also the original source
<herve> haggai, it's upstream
<Burgundavia> T-Bone, what does that thing do? and is there an upstream fix?
<herve> s/haggai/ha
<\sh> herve: but not on gentoo e.g.
<\sh> so it can be that gnupg has a wrong default or whatever
<T-Bone> Burgundavia: i'm currently fixing the code (i'm the upstream author), and preparing an upload for Debian, thought I could do something for ubuntu as well (i'm an Ubuntu maintainer), yet i'm not aware of the policy WRT universe stuff
<\sh> and even with a running gnupg-agent is not working ;)
<Burgundavia> T-Bone, generally frozen. Please with a motu.
<T-Bone> Burgundavia: as to what it does, 'apt-cache show libapache-mod-musicindex' will tell you :}
<T-Bone> Burgundavia: "please with a motu"?
<Burgundavia> T-Bone, looks nifty, plead with a motu
<herve> \sh, is it an experimental or regural feature wrt upstream?
<T-Bone> Burgundavia: plead? I can upload, i just wanted to know if that was possible and how/where...
<Burgundavia> T-Bone, universe is frozen, so you need somebody higher up to approve it
<\sh> herve: regular
<herve> T-Bone, if it's not critical or security-related, no chance for hoary
<T-Bone> ok
<T-Bone> well then, nevermind
<\sh> herve: btw...I'm trying to package neverwinternights from bioware...commercial stuff is in restricted, right?
<herve> is it redistribuable anyway? :-)
<\sh> herve: suire
<\sh> sure...the key is the secret to play it ;)
<herve> all data stuff and the like?
<\sh> and the key is on the manual ;)
<\sh> herve: yepp
<herve> strange...
<herve> but anyway
<herve> I don't think so
<herve> I don't see the point of having it in ubuntu when you have to buy the game
<\sh> herve: it's the native client for the game
<herve> either buy it and you have a CD, or download it from bioware
<\sh> and it's free (like in free beer)
<Burgundavia> http://nwn.bioware.com/downloads/linuxclient.html
<herve> I wouldn't approve it, anyway
<\sh> herve: i will package it first
<\sh> right now I'm working on klibido
<herve> sounds interesting :-)
<\sh> hehe
<\sh> a usenet binary downloader for kde
<\sh> so, you get your pr0n at your fingertips ;)
<\sh> hmm...for kde applications with documentation, do I need a manpage?
<herve> the debian policy say its lack is a bug
<herve> I can't really tell for ubuntu
<\sh> hmm..overwriting linitian checks ;)
<\sh> herve: u r not down under?
<herve> ??
<\sh> not in australia :) (down under)
<herve> haaa
<herve> nope
<\sh> herve: why not? hunting kangas for dinner should be fun ;)
<herve> leave those poor animals alone :-)
<herve> no, I'm broke
<ajmitch> mmm, kangaroo steaks ;)
<herve> and I have a regular job
<herve> so I get paid and not being broke anymore :-)
<\sh> kangas are tasting nice as steak and of course crocos as well, as a chicken replacement
<\sh> herve: I see :)
<herve> that's quite a big chicken ;-)
<\sh> herve: i tasted it when I was working at bertelsmann/lycos
<\sh> no one had the guts at this time to taste it :)
<herve> if it's dead, I don't see the problem :-)
<\sh> I think they were frightend to taste their neighbour diver ;)
<herve> :-)
<\sh> I have to think over my gentoo feelings
<\sh> what they did yesterday and today, it's not my sort of believe in OSS
<herve> what is it?
<\sh> well, there was one project, called gentoo-stats.org. the maintainer wanted to release it as official gentoo.org project, but he had to be developer for this. but he never got his developer status, cause he fought with some devs and users.
<herve> haggai, the developers ego :-)
<\sh> so they took him the chance to have it as official project. he released it as an sideproject, and after a couple of months he tried it again
<\sh> and again, they denied him this status, cause of his problems to talk and work with other people
<\sh> now he closed down this project and was crying about the bad dev guys of gentoo
<\sh> on his old page.
<\sh> finally, he pointed out a link on bugs.g.o to his recruitement application
<\sh> but gentoo staff secured it from the public, even gentoo-devs couldn't see the bug :)
<\sh> I wrote something about it, one former developer released my article on his blog, and 5 minutes later, the bug opened again ;)
<herve> this does not smell good
<ozamosi> That sounds like... Mozilla...
<\sh> but this behaviour doesn't fit in my believe of freedom
<\sh> if its a non-disclosure bug because of an exploit or something, ok, but to reveal the story behind all this miss with this guy..
<\sh> http://linux.blogweb.de/archives/8-UPDATE-Gentoo-Staff-censored-bug-entry-on-bugs.gentoo.org.html
<\sh> i mean, this guy of gentoo-stats.org he is really a nutcase, but everybody should make up their mind by themselves, so the true story must be open for the public
<\sh> herve: ping
<herve> \sh, ouch! not that strong please :-)
<\sh> herve: :)
<\sh> herve: check the psi bug on malone..I figured out more
<herve> in the meantime
<herve> can you get a safe firefox and check if http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=22367 makes it crash at yours too
<\sh> and debsign has problems with the use of the gpg agent ;)
<\sh> which firefox is safe? ,-)
<herve> not mine, for sure ;-)
<\sh> 1.0.3?
<\sh> this is about fonts ;)
<herve> 1.0.2
<\sh> and firefox should crash with this font?
<\sh> or the page itself? it's running fine with firefox on the kubuntu-desktop
<herve> mine crashes before the page is finished loaded
<\sh> no..it's fine
<herve> \sh, can you check http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=299923 please
<\sh> hmmm...
<\sh> looks the same but different ;)
<\sh> he has problems, cause he hasn't run gpg-agent at all i think
<herve> it's waiting for a non-existent process?
<\sh> yeah
<\sh> it tries to get the gpg-agent askpassphrase process
<\sh> but it's not there
<\sh> even if you run it by hand
<\sh> you have to enable it inside the Xsession.options
<\sh> (if you installed gnupg-agent, u will have inside /etc/X11/Xsession.d/61pgp-agent
<\sh> script...
<\sh> enable the agent via Xsession.options (use-session-pgp-agent)
<herve> strange...
<\sh> and everything is nice
<herve> I just install it and the agent is already running
<\sh> or start psi with --no-gpg-agent
<\sh> i will write a comment to this bug
<herve> hmm... my upload seems to have silently disappeared
<herve> I guess my key isn't white-listed yet
<\sh> i don't understand debians bug tracker
<\sh> i send an email to 299923@bugs.debian.org and it should be an additional comment...
<herve> I don't know, I always user reportbug for that
<\sh> comments to a bug?
<herve> but your message arrived
<herve> the webpage is updated
<herve> yes, comments
<herve> "additional info"
<herve> someone using gaim?
<\sh> ah
<\sh> gaim doesn't have gpg support for jabber ;)
<herve> it's about aspell support :-)
<herve> hmm... there's a dozen of "no .desktop" bugs in malone, should be easy to fix
<\sh> hmm...what do i have to do, if I'm fixing a bug? send it via malone to u?
<herve> if you're working on it
<herve> accepting it is a first step I would say
<\sh> I'm not a motu ;)
<herve> yeah, so?
<herve> it's all about volunteership
<herve> you'll easily become a member
<herve> then I'll check your patches and upload for you
<\sh> so i put the fixed package somewhere on the web and u will check it
<herve> yes, I'm often here
<herve> you were'nt there before the hoary release?
<\sh> no
<\sh> ogra forced me to test ubuntu just before the hoary release
<herve> :-)
<\sh> ok...fixes only for breezy?
<herve> yeo
<herve> yep
<\sh> ok..
<\sh> i will take some
<herve> there-s something I really don't like about malone ergonomy...
<\sh> zope?
<\sh> cl s
<\sh> console-data on breezy is broken
<herve> what about zope?
<herve> how is it b0rken? :-)
<\sh> not configurable during installation via apt
<\sh> NONE
<\sh> Usage: install-keymap [ keymap_file | NONE | KERNEL ] 
<\sh> dpkg: error processing console-data (--configure):
<\sh>  subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 1
<\sh> Errors were encountered while processing:
<\sh>  console-data
<herve> on a fresh system?
<\sh> chroot yeah
<\sh> since 2 days now
<herve> haa... a chroot bug :-)
<herve> well,
<herve> I can't create a pbuilder for 2 days too :-)
<\sh> hmmm
<\sh> i wanted to create one now, inside the chroot ;)
<herve> don't you have better games to play ;-)
<\sh> well..i wanted to work on hoary...so i don't want to update
<herve> hmm...
<herve> Riddell, ping
<\sh> i don't have a second workstation here ;)
<herve> \sh, that's my problem too
<herve> well, it will be with arch packages
<herve> I still can assume python packages behave the same in hoary and breezy
<\sh> lets try pbuilder enviroment
<\sh> hehe
<\sh> building klibido and pbuilder create in chroot breezy ;)
<\sh> my laptop will die again
<Amaranth> hey, has anyone here ever manually modified a debian package?
<Amaranth> i just need to edit a control file, i don't have any way of rebuilding the package from any kind of source
<\sh> Amaranth: error?
<Amaranth> dpkg-deb: `freevo_1.5.3-freevo1_all.deb' is not a debian format archive
<Amaranth> debian packages are the same thing as a .tar.gz file, right?
<\sh> no
<Amaranth> or do they use different compression?
<Amaranth> what compression is used then?
<herve> the top-level archive is in ar format
<herve> try the command "file" on that file to be sure
<Amaranth> ar?
<\sh> lol
<\sh> no pbuilder
<Amaranth> how do i create an ar file?
<herve> with the "ar" command :-)
<\sh> it's ar
<\sh> debian-binary control.tar.gz data.tar.gz
<Amaranth> yeah, i know how to work with the contents of it
<\sh> why don't u get the source? tried?
<Amaranth> just needed "ar r package.ext file1 file2 file2"
<Amaranth> ok, that doesn't work either
* Amaranth gives up
<Amaranth> well, i could probably get the source but it only works with python 2.3 and i don't want to change around symlinks and such to make it work
<\sh> no sight of a python2.4 update for this package?
<Amaranth> they say it has issues
<\sh> ok...and if pbuilder is not working for breezy...then I have to build this stuff via debuild
<Amaranth> pbuilder works good here
<Amaranth> oh, you mean to make breezy packages?
<\sh> yeppp
<\sh> hoary is not a problem ;)
<\sh> my body needs some coffeine right now...
<Amaranth> yeah, i've been making hoary packages from breezy :)
<\sh> i don't like this lintian
<\sh> because it's wrong
<\sh> W: klibido: desktop-file-in-wrong-dir usr/share/applnk/Internet/klibido.desktop
<\sh> i have a .desktop file in usr/share/applications/kde/
<Amaranth> how is it wrong?
<\sh> and I need one in applnk/Internet
<\sh> the same applies to kwin-styles and kwin-decorations
<Amaranth> why do you need legacy support?
<\sh> the .desktop file for a decoration is in /usr/share/apps/kwin/
<\sh> and lintian cries
<Amaranth> ah
<\sh> because the check is wrong
<Amaranth> hey, i don't suppose you know how to work with .desktop files in /usr/share/applications/kde from a user's applications.menu
<Amaranth> <Exclude><Filename>foo.desktop</Filename></Exclude>, <Exclude><Filename>kde/foo.desktop</Filename></Exclude>, <Exclude><Filename>/kde/foo.desktop</Filename></Exclude>, and <Exclude><Filename>/usr/share/applications/foo.desktop</Filename></Exclude> don't exclude it
<\sh> Amaranth: if you look inside this directory, there r the normal .desktop files from kde
<\sh> you will find the same .desktop files in /usr/share/applnk/<menu>/
<Amaranth> I know.
<\sh> but the problem is only the lintian check
<\sh> because it looks only for usr/share/applications/*
<\sh> and is not deciding if this is kdes kwin decoration .desktop file for kwin or whatever
<\sh> ok...etherreal doesn't compile
<\sh> another try
<\sh> grmpf
<\sh> packet-cmip.c:1899: error: static declaration of 'dissect_cmip_InvokeIDType' follows non-static declaration
<\sh> packet-cmip.h:40: error: previous declaration of 'dissect_cmip_InvokeIDType' was here
<herve> haaa... those cryptic error messages I hate :-)
<\sh> no this is totally clear
<\sh> in the header: int dissect...
<\sh> in the c file: static int
<\sh> now its dpatch time
<herve> you're compiling for hoary or breezy?
<\sh> breezy
<\sh> is there any website where I can see the compile state of some packages?
<herve> haaa... that may be what they say, gcc 4.0 is less fault-tolerant
<herve> \sh,
<herve> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/
<\sh> yeah
<\sh> have to fix this
<\sh> etherreal 0.10.10 never build on breezy ;)
<\sh> ethereal_0.10.10-1ubuntu1_20050330-1536-i386-successful
<\sh> that was for hoary
<herve> if you could fix dia 0.94.0-7, I'll pay you a beer :-)
<\sh> hehe later :)
<\sh> ok.patching done...edit rules file
<\sh> and brewing coffee
<\sh> hmm...until now...the patch looks good
<herve> so far so good :-)
<\sh> hmm...for breezy a <version>-<rev>ubuntu2
<\sh> herve: compiled
<\sh> ethereal (0.10.10-2ubuntu1) breezy; urgency=high
<\sh> or ubuntu2?
<herve> why urgency high?
<Amaranth> it FTBFS
<schweeb> if it was .10.10-2 before, it becomes .10.10-2ubuntu1
<schweeb> never urgency high.
<herve> \sh, ubuntu2
<\sh> it was 0.10.10-1ubuntu1
<schweeb> then ubuntu2
<herve> you just increment
<\sh> so it will become now 0.10.10-2ubuntu2 or -1ubuntu2
<herve> -1ubuntu2
<Amaranth> when is high used?
<schweeb> \sh: only increment the ubuntu revision
<\sh> schweeb: ok thx :)
<herve> Amaranth, for security issues, and yet, I'm not sure for ubuntu
<crimsun> high is never used for ubuntu
<\sh> oh yeah ;) change high ot low ;)
<crimsun> remember that our installs run every half hour
<crimsun> :03 and :33
<crimsun> not just once every 24 hours
<schweeb> \sh: that way we can more easily track the debian changes... and they can track our changes
<herve> and no 7-day pending
<Amaranth> what does high do in debian?
<Amaranth> kill 7-day pending?
<schweeb> gives it priority in the buildd, I think
<herve> reduce it, but I don't remember how much
<herve> and don't want to check the policy :-)
<crimsun> high means that it will under testing within 2 days if it builds
<crimsun> s/under/enter/
<Amaranth> wow, they wait 2 days for extremely important security issues?
<herve> 2 days, thanks crimsun :-)
<crimsun> Amaranth: the only supported distro is 'stable'
<crimsun> there's no wait there.
<herve> Amaranth, they give a chance for early adopters testing it before fscking up testing
<schweeb> other than the wait for a new stable ;)
<\sh> ok...another build and then where to put..this is the question
<Amaranth> schweeb: I'd rather get something new before I die, thanks. :)
<\sh> herve: are u taking care to upload this package?
<\sh> or any other motu ?
<herve> I cant upload yet
<herve> (can't)
<herve> but I can review your patch :-p
<crimsun> url?
<crimsun> I can review and upload
<\sh> moment...it compiles ;)
<\sh> u want to have a apt repos or straight download?
<crimsun> \sh: .dsc, .diff.gz, and .orig.tar.gz
<\sh> takes some time...448 kbit/s upstream is not much ;)
<\sh> but if it's ready...http://ubuntu.linux-server.org/
<crimsun> 448 kb up kills mine ;)
<\sh> I'm waiting for orig.tar.gz ;) 7mb ;)
<crimsun> or you could give me the upstream url and I'll just rename it
<crimsun> :)
<\sh> lol
<\sh> now u can wait ;) or do a sudo apt-get source ethereal ;)
<crimsun> ;)
<\sh> 44%
<\sh> we're not in a hurry
<crimsun> :)
<\sh> i'm getting hungry
<\sh> 86%
<\sh> done
<\sh> 100% it's yours
<crimsun> thanks.
<crimsun> (I'm pulling orig from archive.u.c, no need to kill your upstream)
<\sh> too late
<\sh> its all on my rootie :)
<crimsun> np
<crimsun> ok, I'll update one of your b-d to automake1.7
<crimsun> automake1.4 is oldish
<\sh> well...I can change it if you want here ;)
<crimsun> sure, just regen the .dsc and .diff :)
<\sh> hmm
<herve> dpkg-buildpackage -S
<\sh> in the control file only automake and autotools are mentioned...no version behind
<\sh> or should i supply a version
<\sh> etherreal-dev is automake1.7
<crimsun> (yes, s/automake/automake1.7/ for ethereal's b-d)
<crimsun> since automake will choose 1.4 on certain arches
<\sh> ok..understand...(where is the docu for that ;)))
<\sh> ok...diff + dsc is uploading ... done
<crimsun> k
<\sh> hope its ok for the buildd
<crimsun> (I'm just rebuilding)
<crimsun> I expect it is ok.
<\sh> if u need my gpg key, it's on the keyserver
<crimsun> nah, I just sign it and upload it
<\sh> ok
<crimsun> I'll let you know when I've done it
<\sh> sure..than i can close the bug on malone
<crimsun> oh, when you close the bug, make sure you include the portion from .source_changes
<crimsun> I don't know if that has been hooked into malone yet
<\sh> ok
<crimsun> uploaded.
<crimsun> you should get the ACCEPT email in 3 minutes.
<\sh> on the buildd?
<crimsun> to the upload site, yes.
<crimsun> (we don't upload directly to buildds; we upload source diffs to the holding area :)
<\sh> and the build daemons are taking those diffs?
<crimsun> yes, one of the 3 buildds for each arch will grab it (the cron job runs every 5 minutes) and begin building
<crimsun> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/breezy-changes/2005-April/002955.html
<crimsun> there's yours.
<crimsun> since it doesn't take too long to build, I suspect at :33 the binaries will be moved to pool, too
<\sh> thx :) so i can close the bug
<crimsun> np, yep
<\sh> finally :)
<crimsun> :)
<\sh> and for me it was a premiere :)
<herve> \sh, you can mark the bug as "PendingUpload"
<\sh> hehe.sure..if i can find it ;) i closed it already
<\sh> bugs assigned to shermann == 0
<herve> hmm... your upload could still fail
<herve> you only tested one arch
<\sh> ok :) changed :)
<\sh> this is a problem with malone
<\sh> resolved bugs u won't find anymore without the bug if
<\sh> -f+d
<herve> "accepted"
<herve> :-)
<herve> now let's watch the builds...
<\sh> where can I see the status of the builds?
<herve> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/byDate/today.html
<\sh> on lamont?
<\sh> ok :)
<\sh> when are the build cycles?
<herve> crimsun told you
<\sh> 3 33
<\sh> oh every 5 mins
<herve> :-)
<\sh> my brain needs food ;)
<herve> \sh, ethereal successful :-)
<\sh> *wow*
<\sh> on all 3
<crimsun> nice work. :)
<\sh> thx guys :) now it's time for a pizza and a beer
<\sh> thx to you, crimsun, as well for your help
<crimsun> np
<\sh> so i can close it now on malone
<crimsun> yep
<\sh> done :)
<\sh> ok...next one :)
<herve> dia!
<herve> :-)
<\sh> yeah, dia is next ;)
<herve> yoohoo!
<herve> :-)
<herve> yeah... zope produces the same weird output with gcc 4.0...
<\sh> let me finish eat first :)
<herve> ho no, I was just chatting
<herve> hooooo... nice output when building python 2.3 too!
<\sh> hmmm...
<\sh> dpkg -i --force ?
<\sh> ok..done
<\sh> can someone review tagtool? http://ubuntu.linux-server.org/tagtool/ (malone bug 411)
<\sh> herve: and what about dia...whats the problem...gcc4 issues?
<herve> \sh, guess so, the build complains about endianness
<\sh> on i386?
<herve> yes
<\sh> shape_info.c: In function 'shape_info_get':
<\sh> shape_info.c:64: warning: pointer targets in passing argument 2 of 'xmlGetProp' differ in signedness
<\sh> shape_info.c:64: warning: pointer targets in assignment differ in signedness
<\sh> shape_info.c: At top level:
<\sh> shape_info.c:121: error: static declaration of 'parse_path' follows non-static declaration
<\sh> shape_info.h:169: error: previous declaration of 'parse_path' was here
<herve> signedness... maybe not endianness then :-)
<\sh> i try to patch
<herve> I'm looking at your patch
<herve> and I'd like you to optimize the rules file :-)
<\sh> that means? the dpatch stuff is needed ;) but i can transform it to cdbs
<Amaranth> I've seen lots of signedness warnings, must be because gcc4 is stricter.
<Amaranth> The static thing has to be the same thing.
<herve> \sh, simpler than that
<herve> don't rewrite the patch and unpatch rules
<herve> you already include them
<\sh> hmpf..k
<herve> but you don't seem to unpatch on clean
<\sh> w8 i fix
<herve> and I think you need to add them in the .PHONY rules at the end
<\sh> I'll fix it
<herve> green light for me afterwards
<herve> Amaranth, yes it is
<Amaranth> luckily, changes those won't break gcc3 so they should get accepted
<Amaranth> s/changes/changing/
<herve> yes, it's just hygiene :-)
<\sh> MLPUBFUN xmlChar * XMLCALL
<\sh>                 xmlGetProp              (xmlNodePtr node,
<\sh>                                          const xmlChar *name);
<\sh> this is libxml2/libxml/tree.h
<\sh> ok...the warning i can forget ;)
<\sh> the error is much more interessting
<\sh> the signed issues has to be done by upstream
<\sh> it's too much for a patch I think..and only warnings
<herve> dia?
<\sh> jep
<herve> well, thanks for looking at it
<\sh> herve: i'm patching and applying
<herve> I'll open a bug upstream
<\sh> pydia-object.h:29: error: syntax error before 'DiaObject'
<\sh> wait with this :)
<\sh> there is more
<\sh> I can send you the dpatches
<herve> hey!
<herve> even in French: h !
<herve> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=173061
<herve> I want to try it
<herve> hi GheRivero
<GheRivero> res
<herve> GheRivero, could you please complete your malone bug report
<herve> about nfs4 I guess
<\sh> herve: please check tagtool :)
<herve> ha yes, you updated it
<herve> impeccable !
<herve> I mean
<herve> great!
<herve> now you should find someone to upload it :-p
<herve> ho
<herve> hooo
<herve> wait
<\sh> herve: please check dia-xxx/plug-ins/python/pydia-objects.h:29
<\sh> I'm not the python guru and C python integrator ;)
<herve> I don't know CPython either :-)
<GheRivero> herve, ok, i will update now, what else do you need?
<\sh> ok..then lets forget about dia ;)
<herve> GheRivero, just what package you were talking about :-)
<herve> \sh, I'm trying the patch I've shown you
<herve> \sh, hmm...
<GheRivero> it's on the description :( I should be more explicit maybe
<\sh> I see
<herve> in your change, you unpatch before cleaning
<herve> GheRivero, it makes an empty entry in the list of bugs
<\sh> after...
<\sh> shit
<herve> :-p
<herve> what I do:
<herve> clean: clean-real unpatch
<herve> clean-real:
<herve>   # the regular clea
<\sh> ok
<\sh> just done ;)
<\sh> herve: the patch could work (dia)
<GheRivero> herve, i know, but since it's  apackage not included, i get an error filling the source or package fields
<herve> \sh, I can but hope, I need that revision for my packages to enter ubuntu!
<herve> GheRivero, ha ok. there is no special value instead?
<\sh> ok...done
<\sh> uploaded
<\sh> tagtool
<herve>  #include "object.h"
<herve> +#include "lib/object.h"
<\sh> herve: take the patch file and create a dpatch file out of it :)
<herve> when you see that kind of fix
<herve> you're thinking it's high time gcc is strict :-)
<GheRivero> herve, done, i hope this way is more clear
<herve> \sh, already done, compiling :-)
<\sh> hehe....:)
<\sh> ok...who wants to upload tagtool?
<herve> GheRivero, what have you changed?
<GheRivero> just added more info:
<GheRivero> Package: nfsidmap
<GheRivero> Sources at: http://www.citi.umich.edu/projects/nfsv4/linux/
<GheRivero> Debian Package at:
<GheRivero> http://packages.qa.debian.org/libn/libnfsidmap.html
<GheRivero> is that ok now?
<herve> GheRivero, in the title of your report, replace "It's not included[...] " with "nfsidmap is not included[...] "
<herve> so we can get what package you are talking about in the bugs list
<\sh> one more coffee or one more beer?
<herve> no coffee for me at this time
<\sh> beer than :)
<GheRivero> i'm trying to figure how to change the title...
<herve> s/than/then :-)
<herve> you make the same error than ogra
<herve> probably the German accent ;-)
<\sh> herve: ogra worked in the same company ;)
<GheRivero> now!
<\sh> well, mixed english from russia, romania, america, scotland ;)
<\sh> and mexico and india ;)
<herve> GheRivero, leave it if you can't
<herve> ha ok, I found the pencil too
<GheRivero> herve, are you going to take care of it?
<herve> GheRivero, I don't think I have enough power but will sure help
<\sh> crimsun: ping :)
<GheRivero> anyone knows if every package will be synced with sid soon?
<herve> it has already begun
<herve> but is problematic because of gcc 4.0 being stricter
<crimsun> \sh: busy atm
<\sh> crimsun: k
<herve> \sh, you have a clue about signedness warnings?
<\sh> herve: I checked libxml2/libxml
<\sh> [22:05]  <\sh> MLPUBFUN xmlChar * XMLCALL
<\sh> [22:05]  <\sh>        xmlGetProp       (xmlNodePtr node,
<\sh> [22:05]  <\sh>                     const xmlChar *name);
<\sh> [22:05]  <\sh> this is libxml2/libxml/tree.h
<\sh> the problem is (imho) the const in front of the string...
<\sh> or dia has to rewrite many calls to this function
<\sh> but it's only a warning...not important right now ;)
<herve> ok, noted
<\sh> or try a (const xmlChar) "bla")
<\sh> but this is not nice ;)
<herve> I'd rather watch their BTS for new patches ;-)
<herve> still compiling...
<herve> many warnings, but nothing fatal
<herve> compiled!
<\sh> nice :)I
<\sh> *grmpf* conglomerat has .desktop file with category:GNOME only ;)
<\sh> no wonder
<\sh> should we change it?
<\sh> #346
<herve> 346 you sure?
<\sh> hu 347
<\sh> also bug in malone
<\sh> Malone Bug #346 (Does not contain a .desktop file) on ubuntu conglomerate
<\sh> but https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/tasks/347/+edit
<trulux> W: GPG error: http://archive.ubuntu.com hoary Release: Couldn't access keyring: No such file or directory
<trulux> W: GPG error: http://archive.ubuntu.com hoary-updates Release: Couldn't access keyring: No such file or directory
<trulux> W: GPG error: http://security.ubuntu.com hoary-security Release: Couldn't access keyring: No such file or directory
<trulux> GRRR
<\sh> herve: i will fix this...the last one for today
<herve> \sh, that would be pretty much even if you stopped now
<herve> ho good... a fonts package which is a native debian package
<herve> 6 megs to upload at each release...
<herve> heya koke !
<koke> hi!
<\sh> I love standards
<\sh> especially when they're not applied to every software
<\sh> building conglomerate
<\sh> herve: can u review? http://ubuntu.linux-server.org/conglomerate/
<herve> not anymore
<herve> my connexion is all used by an upload
<herve> and I must go to bed afterwards
<\sh> me too :)
<\sh> ok.....tomorrow more ;)
<herve> maybe I can upload tomorrow :-)
<\sh> herve: we have time until the next release ;)
<herve> there will be more surprises in 6 months ;-)
<herve> well, good night!
<\sh> hehe...yeah...have a good night too :)
<\sh> I have to finish my beer :)
#ubuntu-motu 2005-04-29
<zul> i take it most people are on an airplane flight?
<ajmitch> not yet
<ajmitch> I don't fly out until saturday :)
<zul> or most people who live in the northern hemisphere ;)
<ajmitch> :)
<ajmitch> some of the main developers will be at LCA already
<ajmitch> sadly I couldn't go this year
<zul> me either
<ajmitch> I went to LCA in adelaide last year, it was great fun :)
<zul> cool..
<jbailey> ajmitch: I'm still at home. =)
<zul> yeah well you are moving to montreal so there is something strange about you
<darkaudit> ahoy hoy
<crimsun> ahoy.
<darkaudit> looking at an XFCE menu issue... lots of duplicates and a big honking list labeled 'Applications'
<HostingGeek> lol
<crimsun> yeah, I'm not sure what to do about that.
<crimsun> Benny's xfdesktop changes include Xfld's menu code
<crimsun> and the snapshot I imported wasn't 4.2.1.1, it was 4.3 cvs
<crimsun> which means while the menu actually works, it has those duplicates.
<darkaudit> it looks like it's taking the .desktop files from multiple locations... a lot of the entries match both the gnome copy, and the menu-xdg one
<crimsun> I can patch the xfdesktop code to look only at gnome-menu's
<crimsun> I want to avoid pushing _too_ many changes, though, because we're already fairly divergent from Debian
<crimsun> experimental went straight xfce.org, whereas Jani and I went os-works.com
<darkaudit> personally, I'd prefer the menu-xdg, 'cause it's a better populated list on my box
<crimsun> but menu-xdg doesn't integrate as well with gnome-menu
<crimsun> and gnome integration is one of the things I wanted to push foremost
<darkaudit> hmm..
<darkaudit> it's just odd that apps like kmail aren't in the main menus in GNOME or KDE, but only show up in the Debian menu after I run update-menus
<crimsun> kmail's menu entry probably needs to be fixed then.
<darkaudit> and I'm starting to like XFCE... just installed it this morning :)
<darkaudit> crimsun: it's not just kmail... most of the games I installed wouldn't show up in the GNOME menu...
<crimsun> darkaudit: those haven't been converted to use the new gnome-menu method.
<crimsun> though it's better if they're made to use fd.o's xdg spec
<darkaudit> is Breezy (and GNOME 2.12) going to be more fd.o-compliant?
<crimsun> I can only hope so :)
<ajmitch_> hi all
<crimsun> hi ajmitch_
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch_
<\sh> morning Burgundavia
<Burgundavia> salut
<HostingGeek> m00
<\sh> hmmm
<\sh> switching from debian to gentoo is not the problem in a live enviroment
<\sh> but what about switching from gentoo to ubuntu
<\sh> in a live enviroment?
<Treenaks> don't use gentoo in live environments ;)
<\sh> heheh
<\sh> it will be a test
<\sh> i want to change my rootie from gentoo to ubuntu ;)
<Treenaks> "Yeah, I compiled my server with -O99 -mcpu=pentium5 -march=pentium6 -funroll-loops and prelinked it!!!!!!!111oneone!!11eleven"
<\sh> Treenaks: this is for geeks
<\sh> -O2 -pipe -march=athlon-xp -mcpu=athlon-xp is for me enough
<\sh> and working
<thom> Treenaks: don't forget -pipe; that gives you big optimisations :P
<Treenaks> thom: oh yeah
<\sh> and -fomit-framepointer ;)
<\sh> but no, serious
<Treenaks> \sh: sorry, that's the image that comes to mind when I hear people say they use gentoo..
<\sh> jabber server, webserver with a couple of webpages on etc. have to be moved
<\sh> Treenaks: i know, I have to fight every single time against this picture
<\sh> not all of the gentoo guys are optimizing compiler flags fetishists
<\sh> well, i will ask on #debian ;)
<Treenaks> \sh: I'd copy the config files and wwwroot to a newly installed debian machine
<Treenaks> \sh: that's how I migrate from one piece of hardware to the next..
<\sh> Treenaks: possible...any way of doing a ubuntu install remotely without sitting in the datacenter?
<\sh> (well, there is no remote insight board :()
<Treenaks> \sh: serial console?
<Treenaks> \sh: otherwise debootstrap :)
<Treenaks> anyway.. off-to-work time..
<\sh> for me too
<\sh> deboostrap
<\sh> yeah..emerge debootstrap
<\sh> there is a second hd, i could install ...mumble..yeah this will do
<\sh> finally fun over the day :)
<\sh> laters
* ajmitch unfortunately does know some people who fit the gentoo stereotype
<Mithrandir> \sh: emerge debtakeover, possibly?
<schweeb> \sh: yea, definitely look at the debtakeover howto
<Burgundavia> people are asking about stuff that is not packaged for Ubuntu on the forums. Is there a good place for them to add their requests?
<ajmitch> UniverseCandidates
<ajmitch> on the wiki :)
<Burgundavia> oops
<schweeb> or the Debian New Maintainer's Guide :)
<schweeb> get packagin, bishes
<schweeb> ;)
* schweeb goes to sleep
<\sh> re
<\sh> anydody awake who can review/upload
<\sh> ?
<ajmitch> maybe..
<\sh> malone #411 and #346
<\sh> 411 was reviewed by herve
<\sh> 346 has to be reviewed
<\sh> time for a coffee
<GheRivero> res
<bddebian> Morning
<encolpe> hi
<goedson> Hi mddebian.
<goedson> s/md/bd/ :)
<\sh> re
<\sh> re
<herve> hi!
* herve searching for an enthusiast uploader... :-)
<bddebian> Hello herve
<\sh> hey herve
<\sh> man I'm so ill sometimes
<herve> \sh, I've improved my patch for dia
<herve> I fixed the broken code instead of removing it like the gnome patch
<\sh> herve: nice...i need someone to review and upload ;)
<herve> and I appended that patch to the bug report
<\sh> well...finally, I'm running now an ubuntu root server ;)
<\sh> replaced gentoo live enviroment
<herve> ha :)
<herve> I can review
<herve> but I'm looking for an uploader too
<\sh> hehe
<\sh> conglomerate is for review, tagtool u reviewed
<\sh> http://ubuntu.linux-server.org/conglomerate/ ;)
<herve> I get to it now
<\sh> ok...I have now running apache2+mysql+php4+jabberd2+bind9
<\sh> I'm missing some python transports and the proxy65, but this I will build by myself
<\sh> I removed gnome
<\sh> i removed the xserver
<herve> yes, it's a server ;-)
<\sh> herve: but it won't install as a server
<\sh> that was my problem
<\sh> deboostrap from ubuntu, installing, base-config new and I had a workstation installation
<\sh> apt-get remove `cat /var/lib/dpkg/available|grep "Package: gnome-"|awk '{ print $2 }'` helped a lot ;)
<\sh> and funny thing was...the server was running after the final reboot...and what I forgot? apt-get install ssh ;)
<\sh> one reboot to much
<\sh> one reboot to many, or to much? sp?
<herve> hmm...
<herve> I know what you mean but don't know how to tell it in English
<\sh> ah...i have to create a patch of jabberd2
<\sh> there is an error in the init.d file
<herve> good!
<herve> so I can use it afterwards :-p
<\sh> well...it's easy
<herve> you had to fix anything in conglomerate?
<herve> or just change debian stuff?
<\sh> no..only the desktop
<\sh> Categorie:GNOME; == gnome only...
<herve> ha yes
<\sh> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/346
<herve> I wonder about reporting the bug upstream
<\sh> this guy didn't mention it, so I had to use my glasball :)
<\sh> well it's a gnome application, for a gnome package it's ok
<herve> your bug should be pending upload :-p
<herve> your package is ok for me
<\sh> k ;)
<herve> s/for/to ?
<herve> well, it was easy to review :-)
<\sh> ok...now we're waiting for someone to upload ,)
* herve lights candles
<\sh> I should brew a can of coffee and I should have a refreshing shower..my day was terrible...
<\sh> (the change to ubuntu was fun, but the rest :()
<herve> you can go
<herve> I'll tell our uploader your package is ok
<\sh> k...tagtool and conglomerate
<\sh> btw
<\sh> psi
<\sh> we should check the repository of fedora
<herve> tagtool ?
<herve> I didn't saw it on your url
<\sh> #411
<\sh> u reviewed it yesterday
<herve> ha ok
<herve> there was a directory for conglomerate
<\sh> http://ubuntu.linux-server.org/index1.php?path=tagtool
<herve> well for now, my dns seems dead
<\sh> finally, it can be that fedora patched psi
* herve rebooting its router
<Burgundavia_> \sh, conglomerate has a .desktop in conglomere-common binary package
<herve_> Burgundavia_, yes but it is misleading
<Burgundavia_> herve, misleading?
<herve_> category GNOME
<\sh> Burgundavia_: the bug was: it's not displayed anywhere else then gnome
<Burgundavia_> ahh
<\sh> and I'm a stupid...I forgot to re-enable the most important stuff on my server
<\sh> postfix and cyrus imapd
<\sh> i have to hurry
<\sh> I hope I'll get everything right...migrating cyrus imapd is not easy from one system to another
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> tolkien.freenode.net
<\sh> how can I change libdb4 to libdb3 ?,-)
<herve> \sh, what's the problem?
<\sh> herve: well...i had cyrus-imapd 2.2.x running and the latest version is in ubuntu 2.1
<\sh> 2.1 is running with libdb3 and i need libdb4
<herve> what is the name of the package?
<\sh> cyrus21-imapd but i need cyrus22
<\sh> http://alioth.debian.org/projects/pkg-cyrus-imapd/
<\sh> experimental
<herve> that's the point, I don't see it in debian
<\sh> hehe yeah
<\sh> its in experimental state I will try :)
<\sh> well...the deps are all there *phew*
<\sh> if this is working...well..
<herve> I'm green
<herve> (to use a French expression)
<herve> I though dia 0.94.0-7 fixed my problem
<herve> but the version compiled in ubuntu got the same issue in building ps files
<herve> I guess the problem is in a build-dependency then
<\sh> hmmm
<\sh> how can I dertermine which package depends on X?
<crimsun> X?
<crimsun> as in the X Window System, or $package_X?
<\sh> $package_X
<crimsun> apt-cache rdepends X
<\sh> thx
<crimsun> np
<herve> crimsun, will you be our uploader tonight? :-)
<\sh> hmm
<\sh> pop3 is running with sasl
<\sh> but not imap
<herve> good night!
<\sh> yipiieh
<\sh> my imap is running again
<\sh> now with sasl+mysql
#ubuntu-motu 2005-04-30
<zul> bleah
<fabbione> morning
<crimsun> morning :)
<tseng> bah
<tseng> morning :(
<schweeb> tseng: please tell me you haven't slept yet
<tseng> i have
<tseng> and woke up again somehow
<tseng> in 6 hours ill be up again
<tseng> i like to get my full 8 hours
<schweeb> ugh
<tseng> ugh yourself
<tseng> hi or
<tseng> ogra:
<tseng> hi dholbach
<dholbach> hai
<JanC> Amaranth ?
<ogra> hey tseng
<ogra> tseng, bring summer clothes with you, its very warm here
<ajmitch> ogra: hopefully warmer than here
<sladen> I thought it was supposed to be winter in Oz?
<ogra> over 30 degree celisius yesterday
<ajmitch> sladen: autumn
<ogra> only about 25 today
<ajmitch> heh
<dholbach> how are you all?
<ajmitch> alright
<ogra> but sunny all the time
<ajmitch> keen to get away from dunedin & get over to sydney :)
<ajmitch> ogra: that may change..
<ogra> ajmitch, nah...
<ogra> (i dont want it to change )
<ajmitch> hehe :)
<schweeb> dholbach: it's very warm here too, I'm sweatin my arse off
<tseng> so im using mutt :(
<tseng> schweeb: thats what woke me up, its hot as hell
<schweeb> 16C here right now
<ogra> whats wrong with 16C ?
<ogra> its not really hot...
<schweeb> it's 1am, in April
<schweeb> in MI
<schweeb> that's boiling hot
<ogra> ok :)
<schweeb> it should be about 4 or 5C out
<schweeb> heh
<JanC> it's 3C here now  :-/
<schweeb> where's here?
<JanC> well, it's 3C in Ostend, which is 15 km from here (which is Bruges)
<JanC> (according to some gnome-panel weather-applet
<JanC> :)
<aisipos> Is this a good place to report problems installing eric3 on ubuntu?
<crimsun> I get no such problems, aisipos
<ogra> aisipos, use malone (url is in the topic)
<aisipos> I'll happily report a bug there, just wanted to ensure there wasn't one already. The search box doesn't seem to work for me there.
<crimsun> sure, go aheda.
<crimsun> it's puzzling that you get those errors, though, because I don't.
<crimsun> gonna test with a dist-upgrade from warty.
<aisipos> I have universe and multiverse installed, and have installed kubuntu-desktop, somehow something is screwy.
<aisipos> Looks like a package is duplicated in python-dcop.
<aisipos> But I'm no expert at .debs
<crimsun> aisipos: ok, hang on.
<crimsun> aisipos: apt-cache policy python-dcop
<aisipos_> crimsum: apologies, my client (chatzilla) was hanging. Can you repeat your instructions about python-dcop please?
<aisipos_> crimsun: apologies, my client (chatzilla) was hanging. Can you repeat your instructions about python-dcop please?
<crimsun> aisipos_: please file a bug in malone about python-dcop
<crimsun> aisipos_: (I've confirmed the bug you see)
<aisipos_> crimsun: Any advice on which command outputs to include?
<aisipos_> crimsun: Also, for the summary, is "Problems installing eric3" a useful summary?
<crimsun> aisipos_: it's not related to eric3
<crimsun> aisipos_: the problem is that python-dcop erroneously contains a file that's also in python2.4-sip4-qt3
<crimsun> aisipos_: in fact, if you remove/purge python-dcop, eric3 installs fine
<aisipos_> crimsun: Ok, I'll use summary ' Duplicate file with python2.4-sip4-qt3'
<aisipos_> crimsun: But what command output should I include in the description?
<crimsun> the output from dpkg
<crimsun> namely:   (sorry about pending flood)
<crimsun> Unpacking python-dcop (from .../python-dcop_4%3a3.4.0-0ubuntu1_i386.deb) ...
<crimsun> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/python-dcop_4%3a3.4.0-0ubuntu1_i386.deb (--unpack):
<crimsun>  trying to overwrite `/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/sip.so', which is also in package python2.4-sip4-qt3
<crimsun> dpkg-deb: subprocess paste killed by signal (Broken pipe)
<aisipos_> Hmm, malone doesn't see python-dcop as a valid 'source package name'
<aisipos_> I'm filing from here: https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/+package
<crimsun> kdebindings is the source package's name
<crimsun> (apt-cache showsrc python-dcop)
<\sh> crimsun: kdebindings and python is a mess
<aisipos_> Ok, here's the filed bug: https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/tasks/440/+edit
<aisipos_> Apologies if I've made any mistakes in there.
<aisipos_> Let me try to remove python-dcop and install eric3
<crimsun> \sh: absolutely :<
<\sh> hmmm
<aisipos_> If i try:  sudo apt-get remove python-dcop
<aisipos_> I see: The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<aisipos_>   python2.4-qtext: Depends: python2.4-qt3 (= 3.13-4ubuntu2) but it is not going to be installed
<aisipos_> E: Unmet dependencies. Try 'apt-get -f install' with no packages (or specify a solution).
<\sh> aisipos_: this is something else...python-dcop shouldn't be installed right now, with issues during preinst
<\sh> aisipos_: i checked it right now
<aisipos_> \sh: I believe I install python-dcop manually earlier.
<crimsun> aisipos_: are you using standard Hoary repos?
<aisipos_> \sh: I had marillat enabled for a while (disabled now), as well as universe and multiverse
<\sh> aisipos_: try dpkg -r python-dcop
<aisipos_> \sh: okay, dkpg -r python-dcop doesn't complain.
<\sh> crimsun: what about putting python2.4-sip4-qt3 as build and run dep for python-dcop?
<aisipos_> Now eric3 installs!
<crimsun> \sh: can't do that until we remove the duplicate entry.
<crimsun> (in python-dcop)
<crimsun> and I'm not even sure it's a d, much less a b-d
<crimsun> will check in the morning, too tired now :<
<aisipos_> But sadly, it crashes on run. There is a bug about this already: https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/tasks/414/+edit
<\sh> crimsun: but this is something for upstream ;)
<\sh> http://ianmurdock.com/archives/000244.html <- interessting
<GheRivero> res
<\sh> working on malone #297 and 296
<\sh> grmpf...
<\sh> gcc4 issues without an end in this mysql stuff
<\sh> das ogra :)
<ogra> hey \sh
<Treenaks> Das Ogra?
<ogra> hi all
<\sh> ogra: wanna have a surprice?
<ogra> greetings fromdown under
<ogra> \sh,  ?
<Treenaks> ogra: how was the non-smoking :)
<\sh> ogra: http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.blogweb.de
<\sh> surprise ;)
<ogra> Treenaks, hard, but i didnt kill the stwardess ;)
<Treenaks> ogra: ;)
<ogra> \sh, applause !
<ogra> \sh, youre ahaead of me ;) i still run woody
<Treenaks> ogra: ouch
<\sh> ogra: i did it...and i found out some pitfalls in server configuration, finally base-config new  installs you a complete workstation after debootstraping
<ogra> \sh, you have to use server as a bootoption on the cd to install a server
<ogra> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/hosted?netname=HEUROPE-NET,217.115.138.0,217.115.143.255
<\sh> ogra: i did it remote :)
<ogra> i'm only third
<ogra> :(
<Treenaks> ogra: I'm 10th: http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/hosted?netname=TRANSIP-COLO-868,80.69.68.0,80.69.68.255
<\sh> ogra: how can I say to deboostrap or base-config that i want to have a server?
<ogra> Treenaks, heh, what an uptime :)
<ogra> \sh, no idea...
<Treenaks> ogra: current uptime is 47 days.. it's just that netcraft doesn't know that
<ogra> Treenaks, it obviously knows about a reboot of my server i wasnt informed about by my provider.... i think i'll block the bill for this month
<\sh> ogra: finally it's running..even jabberd2
<\sh> ogra: and my cyrus-imapd 2.2.x problem I solved with an experimental cyrus-imapd source package of debian
<ogra> hmm
<\sh> ogra: well, i had to choose, 4gb mail spool in the bin, or rescue ;)
<\sh> time for lunch
<\sh> laters
<ogra> ok, i'll go off again, internet is very slow and flaky here, if susus comes around, tell her i'll be here again in an hour or so....laters all
<zyga> hello
<zyga> if motu still frozen?
<\sh> ha..i found a solution for mysql-query-browser...all warnings are errors...so lets disable i
<\sh> t
<ajmitch> hi zyga
<zyga> ajmitch: hi, I'm trying to get freeciv 2.0 into motu :>
<ajmitch> aha
<ajmitch> shouldn't be hard
<ajmitch> since freeciv is in debian
<ajmitch> and the maintainer is often around the ubuntu channels
<ogra> yeah, just sync it if breezy is ready for such stuff
<ajmitch> depends if freeciv 2.0 has been packaged yet
<zyga> ajmitch: not yet as it seems
<zyga> I'd really love to package something
<zyga> but I'd better try with something smaller
<ajmitch> please, package something that isn't already maintained actively in debian :)
<ajmitch> we hate to fork packaging
<zyga> ajmitch: don't worry :)
<ajmitch> Version: 2.0.0-1
<ajmitch> aha, it's in sid
<ogra> great
<zyga> ajmitch: great, so what needs to be done to sync it?
<ajmitch> wait for the next auto-sync run
<zyga> ajmitch: excellent :-)
<ajmitch> it was only uploaded in the last day or so
<ajmitch> Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 02:03:06 +0200
<ajmitch> hmm
<ogra> zyga, breezy currently isnt in a state to just sync packages right away, wait till after the conference
<ajmitch> that went to experimental...
<ogra> ajmitch, no prob..... we can syc from there
<ajmitch> jordi was my AM for the debian NM process :)
<ogra> wow, thats a good AM
<ajmitch> :)
<ajmitch> jordi is a good guy
<Treenaks> he is? :P
<ogra> sure
<ajmitch> hehe
<Treenaks> ogra: whatever you say :P
<ogra> :P
<\sh> anybody who was the time to upload some stuff of herve and me?
<\sh> oh it looks like herve uploaded already
<\sh> ok..next build run of mysql-query-browser...*grmp*
<tseng> ogra: are you getting out sightseeing this week?
<tseng> ogra: next week looks booked solid
<ogra> tseng, thats why we flew earlier, yes
<tseng> nice
<ogra> i had a harbor sightseeng today....
<ogra> and went to chinatow for dinner
<ogra> +n
<ajmitch> fun :)
<tseng> yep.
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> sydney is soooo beautiful
<ajmitch> seems that I'll be meeting up with my boss (or at least I used to do work for him) on sunday
<ogra> here ?
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> he's at LCA
<ogra> great...
<ajmitch> part of the core organising team for lca2006
<ogra> wow
<ajmitch> I'll probably end up getting recruited to do at least something for it
<ogra> heh
<ajmitch> so I expect to see you in dunedin in january ;)
<tseng> are we booked on the 30th?
<ogra> hmm....lets see if i can pay the flight
<ajmitch> yes
<tseng> hm right
<ajmitch> 6 days of BOFs
<Treenaks> ajmitch: I'll be there
<Treenaks> ajmitch: in Dunedin
<ajmitch> great!
<Treenaks> ajmitch: with the money I make nowadays ;)
<tseng> ogra: heh, show me all the cool stuff on the 24th
<ajmitch> gah, they're trying to do even more concurrent BOFs
<ogra> tseng, i'll do ;)
<ajmitch> tseng: when do you arrive in .au?
<tseng> the 24th
<Treenaks> ajmitch: though I'll probably stay longer (or come early)
<Treenaks> ajmitch: (when is it again?)
<tseng> at..
* ajmitch arrives on the 23rd, but will probably not get to the hotel until at least the afternoon of the 24th
<ajmitch> Treenaks: jan 23-rd-29th
<ajmitch> 28th, sorry
<Treenaks> ajmitch: hm.. I might come to NZ for new year then :)
<tseng> i arrive in sydney at 6:25am
<ajmitch> heh :)
<ajmitch> ouch
<ogra> argh
<ogra> with a heavy jetlag i guess
<tseng> yeah
<tseng> but hey
<ogra> tseng, how long is your flight ?
<tseng> that leaves the rest of the day to go out
<tseng> ogra: a gazillion hours
<ogra> heh
<tseng> 12+ from LA i think
<ajmitch> not far
<ogra> we flew 22....was really odd
<ajmitch> tseng: I'd say 18+
<tseng> hm
<ajmitch> at a rough guess
<tseng> well ill basically be on planes all day
<tseng> on the 22nd
<ogra> how many stops `
<ogra> ?
<ajmitch> Flying Time: 	3:15
<tseng> la and sydney
<ajmitch> 2:55 on the way back for me
<ogra> oh, direct flight
<ogra> thats cool
<tseng> well, flying to la
<tseng> then to sydne
<tseng> almost.
<ajmitch> hardly long enough for me to read a book ;)
<tseng> i need to shower and go to work dudes
<ajmitch> ok tseng
<tseng> getting later :(
<tseng> bye
<ajmitch> ogra: partying into the night in sydney? ;)
<ogra> me, now ? noo
<ogra> ciao tseng
<ajmitch> well it's only 10 there
<ogra> ajmitch, still fighting my jetlag.... trying to stay awake as long as i can to not wake up at 5:00 again
<ajmitch> ah..
<ajmitch> it's easier for me
<ajmitch> I get 2 hours extra to sleep in each morning ;)
<ogra> heh
<ajmitch> I found it hard coming back to NZ in january
<ajmitch> since I had to get up at 6am here - my body thought it was 4am .au time
<ogra> from .au ?
<ogra> ah
<ajmitch> yeah, I spent 6 weeks in melbourne
* ajmitch might live in .au next year
<ogra> ajmitch, wow, cooool
<dholbach> ha... back again
<ajmitch> apparantly there's already half a million NZers living in .au anyway
<ajmitch> hey dholbach !
<dholbach> hey ajmitch, ogra!
<ogra> dholbach, wow, you didnt look like you would wake up again...
<ajmitch> hehe
* ogra is impressed
<ajmitch> jetlag hitting hard?
<dholbach> ogra: feel much better now :-)
* ajmitch wonders how he'll get from the airport to his friend's place
<dholbach> now doing some keysigning
<ogra> ajmitch, we are running around all day since yesterday
<ogra> so its double hard....
<ajmitch> doing the tourist thing while you've got time
<ogra> ...trying to stay awake while exhausting your body
* ajmitch has a depressingly empty bank account already
<dholbach> ajmitch: bug your parents, it's what i did
<ajmitch> haha
<ajmitch> my parents only just got back .au today :)
<ajmitch> back from
<ajmitch> they just spent 2 weeks there
<ajmitch> it's sometimes cheaper to fly to .au than it is to fly to the other end of NZ
<dholbach> oh cool, tell them where we are and we'll have a beer with them :-)
<dholbach> already met riddell yesterday
<ajmitch> they got back to NZ today
<ajmitch> although they would have been in sydney earlier in the morning, I think
<dholbach> ah ok
<Riddell> who what me?
<dholbach> dd
<dholbach> didnt read properly
<ogra> Riddell, !!!
<ajmitch> hey Riddell
<dholbach> woohoo, riddell's here
<ogra> just smoked with a nice scottish girl at the door :)
<dholbach> he ROCKS
<ajmitch> ogra: how'd you handle the non-smoking flight? :)
<ogra> especially his wlan card :P
<Treenaks> what about his wlan card?
<ogra> ajmitch, it wasnt too hard :) i survived in the end, and the smoking place in singapore is worth a visit ;)
<Riddell> ogra: there are no scottish girls in that youth hostel
<ogra> Treenaks, it works with the router here.... my old orinoco didnt
<Riddell> ogra: was it the sexy ginger one?
<ajmitch> we had fun at the backpackers in melbourne
<ajmitch> ogra: should I bring my spare wifi card?
<ogra> Riddell, dunno, she looks good....
<ogra> ajmitch, i think i'll be fine with a sane router in the hotel next week...
<ajmitch> I'll put it in anyway
<ajmitch> an old prism2 card :)
<Riddell> ogra: what made you think she was Scottish?
<ogra> Riddell, she is blonde and wasnt srund yesterday
<ogra> she told me
<Riddell> oh, a new girl, hmm hmm
<Riddell> ogra: where was she from?
<ajmitch> ah, time for me to sleep
<dholbach> srund?
* ajmitch has to get up really early in the morning :)
<ajmitch> bye all
<ogra> dumfries and galloway
<ogra> Riddell, ^^
<Riddell> hmm, nice
<Riddell> my arms are all grazed from the surf board, makes it hard to rest them on the desk for typing
<ogra> heh, you were with doko and mvo ?
<ogra> i'll join you tomorrow
<ogra> dholbach, srund ??
<ogra> dholbac1, srund ??
<ogra> what should that mean ?
<dholbac1> ogra: you said it, before my box crashed
<ogra> ahh
<ogra> ok...
<ogra> missed the a again :)
<ogra> should have been around
<dholbac1> ah ok
* ogra goes to smoke again....
<Treenaks> ogra: making up for lost time during your flight? :P
<\sh> ah dholbach :)
<dholbach> :-)
<\sh> mysql-query-browser patch 01_ ;)
<\sh> for what is it?
<\sh> fixing your forgotten issues ;)
<dholbach> what the problem? is this the name i gave it?
<dholbach> must 've been late then... :-/
<\sh> 01_changed_requirements.dpatch
<dholbach> dunno what i was trying to fix, i think there was something with libgtkhtml
<\sh> u patched everything from automake even the cache ;)
<dholbach> got rid of an old version
<dholbach> <--- does his job properly ;-)
<dholbach> good to have somebody review MY packages :-)
<\sh> dholbach: u forgot a category setting in upstreams .desktop file ;)
<dholbach> i concentrated on the more important issues
<dholbach> i only touched a .desktop file once
<dholbach> for my own package :-)
<\sh> dholbach: I'm trying to fix also the gcc4 issues
<dholbach> ah cool
<dholbach> it's broken because of c++ stuff i suppose
<ogra> dholbach, hey
<dholbach> we have to fix the libraries first#
<dholbach> which i cannot do from here :-)
<ogra> dholbach, you just missed te big farting competition at the reception
<ogra> (girls against boys)
<\sh> dholbach: no
<dholbach> oh nice... what place did you make? *roll eyes a bit*
<ogra> hehe
<ogra> i didnt attend... only watched from outside while smoking
<ogra> (they didnt burn the though)
<ogra> s/the/them
* ogra goes to pick up another beer upstairs...
<\sh> hmmm.
<\sh> how can I say dpatch-edit-patch to have more then one basepatch
<\sh> so...i created patch 02 with 01 as base...now i have to create 03 with base 02 and 01
<\sh> ok..have it
<Riddell> surfing photos up http://jriddell.org/photos/
<Riddell> previous page too
<ogra> cool
<ogra> wow, loading a pic takes a about a minute
<Riddell> uploading took a lot longer
<ogra> heh
<ogra> i thought you had a better connection there
<\sh> lol
<\sh> http://jriddell.org/photos/2005-04-18-sydney-geeks-find-internet-oliver-pitti-seb.jpg
<\sh> nice shit
<\sh> aeh shot
<\sh> sry ;)
<ogra> heh
<Treenaks> Geeks Down Under
<ogra> seb looks great in the backgroud
<\sh> i think next year we have to have a nice meeting directly on top of table mountain ;)
<\sh> and re-checking IPv4 Pigeon Protocol
<ogra> depends...
<\sh> u know, to double check alans proof of concept ;)
<\sh> after that we have a nice dinner in a small restaurant in one of the suburbs of cape town :) 500 gramm beef filet steaks
<\sh> or crayfish
<ogra> \sh, not sure if the next conf will be in .sa
<ogra> err za
<\sh> ogra: well...no official meeting :) just holiday ;)
<ogra> ah, ok
<\sh> ok well...need to change tapes for nagra
<tritium> Good morning
<ogra> hey tritium
<tritium> Hey ogra
<Treenaks> ogra: http://keyweed.com/gallery/2001/Australia-3/?imm027.jpg
<ogra> Treenaks, wow, i couldnt imagine that.... it so sunny here all the time
<Treenaks> ogra: that's january
<Treenaks> (2001)
<ogra> oh
<Treenaks> uh no
<Treenaks> December 2001
<ogra> dholbac1, grab some cold beer behind you to cool down the usb stick ;)
<Treenaks> cool down the usb stick???
* Treenaks WTFs
<ogra> Treenaks, it overheats and kills the box
<Treenaks> ocol
<Treenaks> cool, too
<ogra> nah, rather odd...
<Treenaks> is it a European stick?
<ogra> dunno
<Treenaks> maybe it's not make for Aussie temperatures
<ogra> heh
<dholbac1> i'll go to bed now
<ogra> its about 20C here currently...(probably warmer upstairs)
<dholbac1> i'm annoyed
<dholbac1> :-)
<ogra> bah, have a beer and a cigarette downstairs before ;)
<dholbac1> sleep tight everyone
<tritium> good night dholbac1
<ogra> night dholbac1
<\sh> ok...looks like that I have resolved the issues with gcc4
<Treenaks> \o.
<Treenaks> \o/
<Treenaks> sorry
<Treenaks> that first one looks so wrong..)
* Amaranth wonders why tomboy depends on a -dev package
<Amaranth> oh, libdbus-cil does
<\sh> hmmm...anyone up for loading?
<\sh> or reviewing and loading?
* matth echos sh
<\sh> i have a bunch of things to upload (are reviewed by master-reviewer herve) ;) and one package for reviewing and uploading ;)
<\sh> u will find diff.gz + .dsc for malone #411,#346,#297 on http://ubuntu.linux-server.org/ (no archive)
<\sh> *smoking*
<\sh> hp wants to give a special ubuntu linux distro to their laptops..they don't want to force their customers to buy a windows xp version ;)
<\sh> article in german on heise: http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/58740
<fabbione> guys i am going to upload a couple of packages to universe
<fabbione> anybody wants to review them, before i do so?
<fabbione> they are NEW
<jbailey> I keep meaning to figure out the rules for that.
<fabbione> jbailey: that's simple...
<jbailey> I need to upload klibc.  It needs to wind up in main eventually, but I figured it should upload to universe first.
<fabbione> everything that is not specifically forced into main, will land in universe :)
<jbailey> No, I mean in terms of interacting with the MOTU team.
<zul> yo
<fabbione> well... i don't think there is a specific way
<\sh> ok...will go home now...laters
<bddebian> Howdy
<darkaudit> habemus papum :)
<bddebian> Hambuger with fries?
<bddebian> ;-)
<darkaudit> turn on CNN... or just about any channel rt now...
<bddebian> I have no interest in Pope related garbage but thank you.
<WebMaven> Hi folks.
<WebMaven> what does it mean if a package has a page like this: http://packages.ubuntu.com/hoary/comm/kernel-patch-mppe
<WebMaven> but isn't listed here: http://packages.ubuntu.com/hoary/comm/ ?
<WebMaven> Sorry about that.
<WebMaven> If I missed a reply someone made to my question, could you repeat it?
<WebMaven> I'm trying to install kernel-patch-mppe, but Synaptic can't find it (I have universe repos enabled).
<WebMaven> So I went looking, and found that the package has a page here: http://packages.ubuntu.com/hoary/comm/kernel-patch-mppe
<WebMaven> but that it isn't listed here: http://packages.ubuntu.com/hoary/comm/
<WebMaven> and I was wondering if this was significant.
<WebMaven> Anyone?
<WebMaven> Hello?
<WebMaven> Is anyone here?
<bddebian> I'm here but I'm clueless, sorry :-)
<\sh> me too (c) aol.com
<WebMaven> OK.
<WebMaven> This is annoying. I can't figure out why the package isn't available to be installed.
<WebMaven> the archive *says* it's there, but apt-get and synaptic can't see it.
<\sh> aehm
<\sh> noe binary package
<\sh> only source
<\sh> try apt-get source kernel-patch-mppe
<WebMaven> I did.
<WebMaven> root@journeyman:/home/webmaven #  apt-get source -b kernel-patch-mppe
<WebMaven> Reading package lists... Done
<WebMaven> Building dependency tree... Done
<WebMaven> E: Unable to find a source package for kernel-patch-mppe
<\sh> hehe
<\sh> shermann@shermann-laptop:~/test$ apt-cache search mppe
<\sh> pptp-linux - Point-to-Point Tunneling Protocol (PPTP) Client
<WebMaven> I *have* that installed.
<WebMaven> it needs the mppe package to work with MS VPNs.
<\sh> download the source files from the page and build it
<WebMaven> but the packages exist: http://packages.ubuntu.com/hoary/comm/kernel-patch-mppe
<WebMaven> http://packages.ubuntu.com/hoary/source/kernel-patch-mppe
<zul> WebMaven: there is ppp-mmpe in the kernel already
<herve> hello
<\sh> hey herve
<WebMaven> zul, so, you're saying the kernel-patch-mppe package is obsolete?
<zul> yes..
<WebMaven> so, the description in the pptp-linux package is wrong.
<zul> chuck@oxdev:~/work/ubuntu/linux-source-2.6.10-2.6.10/debian/patches$ ls *mppe*
<zul> mppe.dpatch
<zul> not sure but it might be
<WebMaven> zul, I'm using the k7 kernel, would that be any different?
<WebMaven> This is part of the pptp-linux description: "MPPE (Microsoft Point-to-Point Encryption) support requires
<WebMaven> an additionnal kernel module, provided by package kernel-patch-mppe."
<zul> WebMaven: it isnt any different and the description could be wrong i havent looked at the package
<\sh> ok...applied 1.0.19-1 patch to 1.0.20-1 mysql-admin
<\sh> and this should fix gcc4 issues
<herve> yes, the newest mysql-admin
<herve> thanks :-)
<\sh> if this is working i have to send it to bugs.debian
<\sh> herve: on my wiki page is a list of malone fixes ;)
<\sh> there should be a todo tool on ubuntulinux.com ;)
<\sh> 1 fix == 1  or 2 US$ ,->
<\sh> and mysql-query-browser I disabled only the -Werror for the gtksourceview thingy
<\sh> well..done
<\sh> working
<\sh> herve: catch your mysql-admin on http://ubuntu.linux-server.org/mysql-admin/ ;)
<herve> later, I'm cooking for now :-)
<\sh> hehe...
<\sh> ok, now i have to take some packages for myself...proxy65/pyicq-t/pymsn-t/pyaim-t
<herve> I have a nice challenge if you like mysteries... :-
<\sh> well...i have to get my transports running for my jabberd2 server
<\sh> and there r no packages for it :( well, they're frightend to do python+twisted tapped packages ;)
<\sh> but tell me the challenge :)
<herve> same versions of dia
<herve> the one from debian produces nice PS exports
<herve> the one from ubuntu produces messed up PS exports
<\sh> using GS?
<herve> I don't know how it produces it
<herve> but if I install the debian binary packages
<herve> they use the same current gs as the ubuntu one
<herve> so I guess the difference is in build deps
<herve> hmm... something I haven't tried... installing ubuntu ones on debian and testing the export
<AstralJava> herve: How is it messed up?
<AstralJava> herve: Gotta go, but I did a quick try in Ubuntu and Dia produced a perfect *.eps export. Not sure if that's what you meant though. I'll be back tomorrow.
<herve> re
* herve trying to invent a new cook recipe :-)
<\sh> I'm getting hungry
<herve> be patient
<herve> it's not baken yet :-)
<\sh> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=301844
<herve> nice
<herve> but is the patch for desktop in the right place,
<herve> ?
<\sh> yeah
<\sh> i made the 02 patch with 01
<\sh> so i had to provide it ;)
<herve> I mean
<herve> the patch is about build failure
<herve> so fixing the desktop entry doesn't seem revelant
<\sh> the 02-gcc4
<\sh> there r two
<herve> yes but you don't need 01 for fixing the build failure?
<\sh> 02-gcc4.dpatch is the patch from andreas against 1.0.20
<herve> he he...
<herve> \sh, ?
<\sh> jepp...trying to start my new proxy65
<herve> I have a clue for my dia mystery
<herve> check that diff: http://deb.oursours.net/motu/l10n.diff
<\sh> jepp
<\sh> its localised ;)
<\sh> , instead of . for decimal
<herve> nice bug, eh?
<\sh> hmmm
<\sh> who is wrong?
<\sh> debian upstream or ubuntu..who made the locale patch?
<herve> anyway, autobuilders are not localized
<herve> this means my package could compile
<herve> this means my work can enter ubuntu :-)
<herve> dia compiled in Debian is not sensible to locales
<herve> I wonder if the ubuntu-devel list will be interested
<herve> or they will redirect me to malone immediately...
<\sh> ok proxy65 package is ready
<blueyed> Hi. I've found a problem with fontconfig in breezy. (Or is this channel about the universe repo only?)
<herve> I reported the bug in malone
<herve> and yes, we are the masters of the universe :-)
<blueyed> What is malone, herve?
<herve> our bugtracker
<herve> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/distros/ubuntu
<blueyed> Fine, thanks. But fontconfig is not in the universe repos, is it?
<herve> no it isn't
<\sh> herve: btw. http://linux.blogweb.de/archives/9-Hewlett-Packard-and-Ubuntu-Linux.html
<herve> but malone is for whole ubuntu and even more
<\sh> came today over german heise ticker
<herve> like the city of Hamburg has chosen a Debian based solution ;-)
<blueyed> so, herve, what is the difeerence between malone and bugzilla then? between stable / development branch?
<\sh> herve: i didn't know ;)
<herve> blueyed, malone is overall simpler to use for the average people
<herve> but quite young at the moment
<herve> good night all!
<\sh> cu herve
<blueyed> bye herve.
#ubuntu-motu 2005-05-01
<ajmitch_> hi ogra
<ogra> heya
<dholbach> hey
<zul> hola
<dholbach> bye guys
<\sh> morning
<dholbach> hey
* \sh is listening to "Down Under" by "Men At Work"
<ogra> hehe
<ogra> ogra too
<\sh> phew...i'll tell you, to establish ubuntu on a server we have to do a lot of work
<\sh> finally, do i need dbus and hald for a server?
<Treenaks> \sh: need: no. want: yes.
<\sh> dbos or hald?
<Treenaks> both ;)
<\sh> netstat -an|awk '$1~/^tcp$/&&$6~/^VERBUNDEN$/ { print $0} '
<\sh> | wc -l ==> 160
<\sh> jabberd2 is running nice
<\sh> i packaged the proxy65 bytestream implementation (twisted source) and now I'm working on pyicq-t/pyaim-t/pymsn-t
<\sh> and I will provide a package for MUC for jabberd2
<\sh> because the actual package has a dep on jabberd1
<\sh> and this gives problems with jabberd2
<dholbach> see you later
<GheRivero> res
<koke> hi motus!
<koke> I've packaged some perl modules at work, should I put them in NewPackages?
<susus> ogra: ping
<ogra> susus, pong
<susus> ;o))
<Treenaks> ogra: jet-lagged? :P
<dholbach> hey
<Treenaks> hey dholbach
<dholbach> hey Treenaks
<susus> hallo dr. D. ;o)
<Treenaks> "dr D"?
<dholbach> hahahaha, hallo susus
<dholbach> susus: where's ogra? is he still alive?
<dholbach> or sleeping in front of the tv or something?
<ogra> Treenaks, not anymore, only broken feet from a lot of walking
<susus> dholbach, Im talking to him ...
<dholbach> susus: ok :-)
<dholbach> ajmitch: here?
<dholbach> tseng: here?
<dholbach> koke_: here?
<koke_> dholbach: yep
<koke_> not for much time, though
<ogra> dholbach, sure, still alive... the TV is to loud to fall asleep here
<dholbach> koke_: when will you be "here"? :-)
<dholbach> ogra: i can imagine, i will soon drop into bed
<dholbach> ogra: in fact, i'm already lying here
<koke_> if (here == ".au") { when = "Apr 24 05:55"; }
<ogra> dholbach,  whish i were already, but will have another cigarette and then i'll join the room
<dholbach> koke_: ahhhhhh ok
<dholbach> ok
<dholbach> koke_: will be nice to have you here :-)
<ogra> koke_, so we should organize somehow, since there wil be not much time during the week to see sydne...
<ogra> y
<koke_> how's the weather in .au??
<dholbach> today was bad
<ogra> today it was a bit cloudy
<ogra> wasnt bad...
<koke_> ogra: yeah, I've promised to bring some photos here :)
<dholbach> but still much warmer than in germany
<dholbach> 25-26 degrees celsius on good days
<koke_> dholbach: enough for short pants?
<ogra> it rained the night and parts of the morning
<dholbach> koke_: of course
<koke_> grreat :D
<dholbach> koke_: be sure to bring both
<dholbach> wooohoooo
<koke_> I hope to be able to do some first upload from there ;)
<dholbach> hahahaha :-)
<dholbach> i didnt manage yet :-)
<dholbach> because our connection is too eff-ing slow
<ogra> koke, the forecast for next week is sunny, but i doubt you willleave the hotel during the day
<dholbach> it might break every moment
<koke> ogra: I'll have to be a tourist at least one day :D
<ogra> dholbach, as long as the film runs, the guy wont kill the line ;) its his dvd
<ogra> koke, yep
<dholbach> ogra: oh i see
<ogra> at least 45 min to go
<koke> well, 15:35 here and I'm with an empty stomach, have to go!
<Treenaks> 15:37 < koke> well, 15:35 here and I'm with an empty stomach, have to go!
<Treenaks> koke: you're lying :P
<dholbach> i will be off to bed soon anyway (sleeping) :-)
<Treenaks> dholbach: it's only 23:38
<koke> Treenaks: usually I plug my connection after booting, so I have few ntp :D
<Treenaks> koke: ntp should be mandatory
<ogra> Treenaks, yeah and he wakes us all up at 5:30 in the morning... :(
<Treenaks> ogra: urgh
<koke> Treenaks: maybe it's place is on if-up.d instead of init.d :)
* koke leaving
<dholbach> good night everyone
<ogra> night dholbach
<susus> bye dr. D.
<dholbach> bye susus
<bddebian> Hey folks
<\sh> guys...
<\sh> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/g/grubconf/
<\sh> but if I do a apt-get source grubconf I can't get it
<Burgundavia> stupid question, you have enabled universe source?
<\sh> Burgundavia: yes :)
<Burgundavia> ok
<Burgundavia> just thought I would remove the stupid stuff first
<Burgundavia> let me try
<Burgundavia> http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?keywords=grubconf&searchon=names&subword=1&version=breezy&release=all
<Burgundavia> no exist according to this
<Burgundavia> so I suspect that the packages.gz doesn't have it
<\sh> yeah...
<\sh> so it's officially gone
<zyga> what is the resync cycle with regards to sid packages?
<GheRivero> res
<Burgundavia> zyga, constant and on auto right now
<zyga> Burgundavia: so freeciv 2.0 might be resynced any moment :> ?
<Burgundavia> has it hit debian?
<zyga> Burgundavia: I think so
<zyga> Burgundavia: I've checked debian archives but I could not find sid archives
<zyga> w8
<zyga> Burgundavia: stable has old version
<zyga> Burgundavia: it's in experimental
<zyga> Burgundavia: does ubuntu sync experimental?
<Burgundavia> should hit sid soon
<Burgundavia> ubuntu syncs sid
<zyga> Burgundavia: darn, more waiting :/
<zyga> Burgundavia: is it safe to install debian packages over ubuntu?
<Burgundavia> might be
<Burgundavia> I wouldn;t
<Burgundavia> is going to hit breezy very soon
<Burgundavia> you can wait a week for your crack
<zyga> Burgundavia: does something major happen when packages are synced?
<zyga> (apart from s/Debian/Ubuntu sed script ;-) ?
<Burgundavia> it will get announced
<Burgundavia> on breezy-changes
<zyga> Burgundavia: I was talking about packages themselves
<Burgundavia> if you run breezy your packages will get updated
<herve> hello
<trulux> jezz, where's tritium? :)
<\sh> hy herve
<tritium> trulux, I'm back :)
<trulux> tritium: and tritium went back from the darkness and the shadows, to bring light and hope to this new movement of the Rebel force...
<trulux> sorry of the redundancy
<trulux> tritium: howya?
* trulux working on gcc-3.4-hardened package
<tritium> trulux, :)  I'm fine, thanks.  YOu?
<trulux> tritium: great, too busy with school :(
<tritium> trulux, me too - I'll probably not be around as often for the next few months
<trulux> tritium: I hope I will get much more done in summer
<trulux> but now, I'm about to take the school wimps back to drawing board until I finish this trimester, then I'll have free time to "waste"
<tritium> I should be all done by end of July
<\sh> *yawn*
<herve> \sh, it's only 8!
<\sh> herve: hey, I worked 11h :)
<\sh> already :)
<herve> heh, I worked hard too :-)
<trulux> christ!
<\sh> herve: :) finally i have to finish one package :( but today, I don't think I have the strength to do it..
<herve> don't worry
<herve> breezy is out in October :-)
<\sh> herve: well...i don't think we will manage to create a nice ubuntu server solutions until october ;)
<herve> we don't have to before this date :-)
<herve> hoary remains the solution for production servers until then
<\sh> herve: i was playing with the jabberd2 package...and I want to change the init.d scripts and tasks, cause it's not for virtualhosting of jabber2 sessions
<herve> I guess it's a universe package?
<\sh> think so
<herve> I'd be interested in your patch a few days later
<\sh> hmmwhy is apache2 not logging?
<tritium> trulux, did you need anything, or were you just curious where I've been
<tritium> ?
<trulux> tritium: just curious about you
<tritium> trulux, I was in Arizona the past week
<trulux> tritium: really? AFAIK it's a cool place
<tritium> trulux, yep, the desert southwest is beautiful, and I saw a U2 concert
<\sh> can it be, that apache2-2.0.53 and ubuntu have prpoblems with setenvif?
<\sh> caus I can't get logging running with SetEnv enabled
<trulux> tritium: U2? hah, I just like a few themes from them
<tritium> I see
<trulux> oops, anyone can give some time of debian packaging fu? I'm having the very last trobule before having the gcc-3.4-hardened package done
<\sh> and strike another bug
<AstralJava> herve: Did you solve that Dia problem yet?
<herve> AstralJava, no
<herve> there's a locale issue I'm not able of sorting out
<AstralJava> Ahh, shoulda thought of that.
<herve> AstralJava, I was about to tell you something when you left yesterday...
<herve> ... but I forgot what :-)
<AstralJava> Heh. :)
<AstralJava> What's your locale then?
<herve> fr_FR.UTF-8
<AstralJava> Mine's fi_FI.UTF-8@euro
<herve> what's the separator for decimals?
<AstralJava> Uhh, forgot how to check that.
<herve> I guess you know how to write decimals in Suomi (?) :-)
<herve> anyway, here's the result in French: http://deb.oursours.net/motu/l10n.diff
<AstralJava> Bhah. :) Can ya tell I'm slow?
<AstralJava> It's .
<AstralJava> So it means you need to set the decimal separator when exporting .ps files. Nasty.
<AstralJava> Wonder how many locales have , by default?
<herve> that's not the point
<AstralJava> Oh?
<herve> dia or the lib behind it shouldn't be affected by the locale
<herve> or force C defaults
<AstralJava> Yeah, I get that. So filed a bug report, did you? I just meant that in between, you should do that.
<AstralJava> In no way is that acceptable, yes.
<herve> I asked ubuntu-devel's opinion
<herve> which has turned to have none for now :-)
<AstralJava> Hehe. :)
<AstralJava> Well, if I can be of further help, let me know okay?
<herve> ok, thank you
<AstralJava> And also if you recall what you meant to ask me in the first place. :)
<herve> I think I just wanted to show you the difff
<AstralJava> Alrighty then.
<AstralJava> Gotta go catch some sleep now.
<herve> good idea :-)
<herve> see you later
<AstralJava> I'll be on later, do you guys have a mailing list? Can't access irc at work.
<herve> no
<AstralJava> Hmm, too bad.
<AstralJava> Well, see ya! G'night.
<herve> night!
<herve> houba !
<\sh> houba?
<stazz> How wrong channel is this to ask for assistance in building my own .deb -packages?
<herve> not so much wrong
<stazz> okay.. I saw some pbuild -guide on the wiki, is that the ultimate way to build pkgs?
<stazz> or are they done the traditional debian way?
* ogra grabs some coffee to wake up
<ogra> stazz, pbuilder is the best way to do it
<herve> hey ogra !
<ogra> heeeeey herve :)
<stazz> ogra: right.. do I need to create the.. the.. controlfiles manually?
<schweeb> pbuilder is second only to having your own buildd :)
<herve> stazz, the main benefit of pbuild is to detect missing build depends
<stazz> herve: uhm.. when it's performing the configure, you say?
<herve> ogra, long time not seen.. er, read!
<ogra> schweeb, lol
<\sh> evening ogra :)
<ogra> herve, yeah, finally we sorted the wlan in the hostel...
<ogra> morning \sh
<herve> ogra, jet lag issues?
<\sh> grmpf
<stazz> uhm.. what about breezy? are the development repositories accessible somehow?
<ogra> herve, i think i'm through now.... only the noise is an issue....our room goes to the big street and you cant sleep with closed window
<herve> without?
<herve> stazz, sure
<herve> ogra, say hi to Daniel and the others
<ogra> they are still upstairs...
<stazz> herve: hmmh. spent the most part of the day reading through the wiki, do you have any links that'd prove themselves useful? :)
<ogra> ah, wait
<schweeb> I wish I could go to .au :(
<schweeb> but, at least I'm gettin a new job... can try to go to the next conference, wherever/whenever it may be
<\sh> stazz: whats your problem? you can start the debian way :)
<herve> stazz, I don't get what you mean
<stazz> herve: well, is there any information about breezy development and/or repository-links somewhere?
<herve> stazz, the repo is s/hoary/breezy in your sources.list
<stazz> herve: oh, that simple..
<herve> and our main dev concern for now is the gcc 4.0 transition
<ajmitch> ogra: you're awake early today :)
<stazz> gcc 4.0 sounds like a big leap.. considering 3.4 is already giving people a hard time..
<schweeb> that's what I thought too, but apparently it's not a huge deal
<herve> stazz, you get fear reading compile logs
<ogra> ajmitch, its loud here
<ajmitch> ah
<schweeb> the bigger problem is crappily written c++ code, as I understand it
<ogra> ajmitch, looking forward to the hotel next week
<ajmitch> :)
<herve> dia is not c++ but the code is sure rotten!
<\sh> any sourcecode is rotten, if you didn't write it by yourself
<ajmitch> herve: it may be beneficial to see if fedora cvs has any patches for programs that don't compile well
<herve> ajmitch, sure
<ajmitch> since FC4 is coming out with gcc 4.0 as well :)
<herve> \sh, it's full of types mismatch, static functions vs "dynamic" calls, etc.
<ajmitch> bbl
<herve> night all
<\sh> ajmitch: i think this is ian m. concern, that we have a better transition rate towards new software ;) did u read his blog?
#ubuntu-motu 2006-04-24
<chillywilly> how stable is dapper?
<Kozuch> pretty good i just upgraded from breezy (i had to configure x server manually though)
<LaserJock> grrr :(
<Kyral> whats wrong LJ?
<LaserJock> well, I wanted to play a game or something to relax. Of course I can't find anything much that will play on this stupid intel iMac
<crimsun> hello? nethack?
<crimsun> oh wait, how about the "close LP bugs" game? :)
<Unfrgiven> hi all
<LaserJock> crimsun: good point
<crimsun> seriously, though, I'd be surprised if at least the ascii ones weren't playable
<LaserJock> ahh, sweet tuxracer works
<LaserJock> I was really hoping America's Army or Enemy Territory would work
<lifeless> LaserJock: freeciv
<Yagisan> LaserJock: Doom ;)
<Yagisan> LaserJock: runs on everything from ipods to mainframes
<LaserJock> lifeless: yeah, that might be nice. never played it before though
<LaserJock> Yagisan: maybe
<Unfrgiven> LaserJock: why wont America's Army or ET work on an intel imac?
<Toadstool> hey LaserJock, looking for a game? :)
<LaserJock> Unfrgiven: because it needs a x86 version for OSX
<LaserJock> Toadstool: yeah, for an intel mac
<Toadstool> angband :D
<Toadstool> g'night everybody
<bddebian> Sorry gang, what did I miss?  Can you all start over? :-)
<LaserJock> bddebian: well, I was looking for games for my intel iMac ;-)
<LaserJock> so we are staying very on topic :p
<freeflying> LaserJock: how about you intel iMac?  :)
<Yagisan> of course. You are intending to put Ubuntu on that mac right LaserJock ?
<ajmitch> afternoon
<LaserJock> yes, as soon as I can (hopefully early Dapper+1)
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<LaserJock> hi ajmitch
<crimsun> no, he's going to give it to me with the great BdDebianIsAGod jedi mind trick that I'm using
* bddebian still wonders why crimsun hates him
* LaserJock can't resist, must .. give .. to .. crimsun 
<LaserJock> right now my main bugs are with python related stuff (matplotlib and wxpython)
<Yagisan> LaserJock: no, must give to me.
<ajmitch> bddebian: why do you think crimsun hates you?
<LaserJock> because he thinks everybody hates him
<ajmitch> right
<LaserJock> bddebian: ya know, my wife has a Masters in Counseling
<ajmitch> LaserJock: might be a good idea - get her to stop him saying he's stupid
<ajmitch> hello Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hi ajmitch
* Hobbsee tries to make her internet work properly
<ajmitch> how are you?
<ajmitch> you have your own internet? :)
<Hobbsee> no...lol
<Hobbsee> i'm good, i booked in my car to be fixed...
* Yagisan really should resist telling the trolls in u-d to fuck off. But I can't help it while sick.
<ajmitch> how damaged was it?
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: you broke your car?
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: no, some woman decided to reverse into me while i was stationary, down a one way street.
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: about $500 damage on mine, more on hers...
<bddebian> Damn women drivers
* bddebian hides :-)
<Hobbsee> haha @ bddebian
* Hobbsee thwacks bddebian 
<ajmitch> bddebian: run now while you still have the chance
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: typical. No one looks where they go anymore
<Hobbsee> too late...i've got my lovely large baseball bat here...
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: so it seems.  and since when was reversing up a one way street legal anyway???
<Hobbsee> yes, the nose of the car is pointing in the correct direction, but you're STILL GOING THE WRONG WAY!!!
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: it's not, but they give any dickhead a license now.
<Hobbsee> heh
* Yagisan should actually one day get around to getting a license
<Hobbsee> i'm the p-plater - surely i should be at fault?  :P
<Hobbsee> the woman who hit me would have been in her 40's or 50's
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: it's gotten harder, with the driving test
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: really ? admittedly the last time I drove a car was up the m4 with the coppers behind me the whole way, some 7 years ago, but it shouldn't be too hard.
<Hobbsee> ouch...
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: yeah...they can get pretty picky - i was lucky, getting thru first time :D
<ajmitch> Yagisan: what were you being chased for? :)
* Hobbsee glares in the direction of cops....hate them driving around me!
<Yagisan> ajmitch: no license.
<ajmitch> niec
<ajmitch> and you got out of jail ok? :)
<bddebian> zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuul
<Unfrgiven> wow both Hobbsee and Yagisan are aussies... Hobbsee you're from Sydney too?
<Hobbsee> Unfrgiven: yes
<Yagisan> I pulled into the University of Western Sydney, left the card in the parking lot, mingled in with the students, and left via the student shuttle bus 8-)
<Yagisan> s/card/car
<Hobbsee> hehe!
<Unfrgiven> Yagisan: hahaha! thats gold
<ajmitch> Unfrgiven: yes, they're taking over
<ajmitch> Yagisan: well done ;)
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch: you mean we're taking over... all from sydney, thats cool!
* Hobbsee pokes StevenK with a big long stick
* ajmitch tries to remember who else from here is from sydney - lifeless & stevenk are the only others I know of
<Hobbsee> Unfrgiven: you're a sydney-sider too?
<Unfrgiven> Hobbsee: Yagisan: where do you work?
<Unfrgiven> Hobbsee: sure am!
<Hobbsee> Unfrgiven: bilo.
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: Unfrgiven even turned up at UDU
<Hobbsee> woo!
<Hobbsee> ah...i wasnt at that...
<ajmitch> as did Yagisan
<Unfrgiven> i lived across the road from UDU!!!
<Unfrgiven> literally across the road
<Yagisan> Unfrgiven: self-employed http://eyagi.bpa.nu/eyagi
<ajmitch> Unfrgiven: I lived across the ditch
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch: :)
<Hobbsee> :P
* Hobbsee reminds herself to go to work today
<Yagisan> Unfrgiven: I probably met you, and don't remember your name or face.
<ajmitch> Yagisan: we can pull up a photo, I'm sure his face is online somewhere
<Hobbsee> hehe!
<Hobbsee> yeah, there are probably pictures of all of you around...
<Hobbsee> on launchpad maybe?
<ajmitch> certainly
<ajmitch> probably not on launchpad
* Hobbsee has a few pictures, but they are well hidden!
<ajmitch> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDownUnder
<ajmitch> lots of photo links
<Yagisan> I couldn't find a picture of me, but the is a bloke that looks rather like me
<Yagisan> s/the/their
<Yagisan> bugger it. can't spell today
* Hobbsee looks thru the pictures
<ajmitch> http://www.netsplit.com/events/2005/ubuntu-down-under/ubuntu-down-under-027.html
<ajmitch> friendly elmo
<Hobbsee> hehe
* Hobbsee is jealous now!
<ajmitch> heh
<Hobbsee> hey there is more than one woman there!
<ajmitch> of course
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: yeah. they were mean. They only gave me 1 t-shirt :(
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Yagisan> only one. I mean, what do I wear while I was the first ?
<Yagisan> s/was/wash
<Hobbsee> you know what's weird?  ogr*a looks rather like a guy at my work...
<ajmitch> Yagisan: I picked up another one in montreal
* tritium needs an ubuntu t-shirt
<ajmitch> so at least I can alternate between them each week :)
<Hobbsee> hee
* Hobbsee wouldnt fit into one very well :P
<Unfrgiven> sorry, got a phone call. im sure i made it in the background at one photo
<ajmitch> aha
<ajmitch> Unfrgiven: http://www.flickr.com/photos/whiprush/13477774/
<Hobbsee> heh, we should have a new kubuntu logo of this - http://jriddell.org/photos/2005-04-24-sydney-possum.jpg  :D
<ajmitch> yay, demonic possum
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch: yeah you can't really make me out there... wasnt there one big group photo somewhere?
<ajmitch> Unfrgiven: there was
* ajmitch needs to through gnome-terminal through a window
<Unfrgiven> http://image32.webshots.com/33/6/33/76/338863376AsRyZe_fs.jpg
<ajmitch> hitting the irssi+screen bug
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: and you are which one, in that?
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: on the right
<Hobbsee> ah ok
<Yagisan> I took a bunch of guys on a short trip through kings cross at night. That was fun. Pity I don't see any photos
<Unfrgiven> Yagisan: were you at UDU as well?
<LaserJock> I also found http://gallery.linuxguru.net/UbuntuDownUnder-4-2005/img_0257
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: you *wanted* photos from that???  Is there anything good that actually happens in the cross?
<Yagisan> Unfrgiven: yeah. I was conspicuous. i was the only guy there *without* a laptop
<bddebian> heh
<tritium> hey there bddebian
<ajmitch> LaserJock: thanks for finding that bad photo
<Unfrgiven> Yagisan: i was there without a laptop too! my dell had died two wks before UDU! :(
<LaserJock> ajmitch: you are most welcome ;-)
<Unfrgiven> Yagisan: which sucked because it meant that i kept going home to my desktop :)
<Hobbsee> ah well, i'll show mine as well then...  http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/9838/hobbseecar10ii.jpg
<Hobbsee> hehe poor Unfrgiven
<bddebian> Heya tritium
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: the pre-crash shot?
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: is that the car that got ran into?
<LaserJock> hi tritium
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: yes, that was taken on my birhtday last year...
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: yes it is
<tritium> Hi there LaserJock
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: I said, through - I took them cross the park, and down pitt street, so pitti could get a photo at martin & pitt sts, before going down to the opera house
<ajmitch> blanked out numberplates & all :)
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: ah ok...lol
* Hobbsee doesnt think that staying terribly long in kings cross would leave you guys with a terribly good location :P
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: the car was a birthday present? :)
<Hobbsee> er, reputation :P
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: I blame sabdfl
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: no it wasnt, but i got my licence that day...
<ajmitch> he seems to pick such locations
<Hobbsee> haha
<Unfrgiven> Hobbsee: RTA gave u a license for your bday? ;)
<Hobbsee> Unfrgiven: yeah...i took the test on that day, and passed
* Hobbsee had wanted solo driving around 6months before that!
<ajmitch> well done :)
<bddebian> Ack, WTF happened to my Bugs in Universe url?
<Hobbsee> thankyou :)
<Hobbsee> bddebian: i ate it...i was hungry
<crimsun> bddebian: you don't have any bugs, remember?
<bddebian> Well I hope it was good at least :-)
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: so at what age can you get a license in .au?
<bddebian> crimsun: I don't?
<crimsun> bddebian: of course not, deities can't
<LaserJock> bddebian: I thought you fixed them all
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: learners (with another driver in the car) at 16, provisional at 17, full licence at 19...
<LaserJock> blink of an eye, "Thus spake bddebian"
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: you look like a twig in that picture!
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: hehe!  do i need to show my other one then?
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: why not ?
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: 19? man, that is old
<Hobbsee> http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/4675/formal32zv.jpg
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: yeah, rather
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: that pic, the lighting is wrong - but it does more or less show how thin i am
<Hobbsee> well, it would better if i hadnt had my arms folded...
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: jeeze, I was married at 19
<bddebian> Why do you guys tease me, knowing I'm not very bright? :'-(
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: you do eat right ? you don't just look at the food and go "I'm full" ?
<LaserJock> Yagisan: lol
<ajmitch> bddebian: because you prove the contrary
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: now that's scary...
<Yagisan> I was married at 20
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: sorta...most of the time...i'm a little hypoglycaemic, so i kinda have to...
* bddebian feels old as usual
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: thin doesn't begin to describe that photo :)
<Yagisan> actually, that was the earliest age I could marry in Japan
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: and I was almost in grad school
<Hobbsee> work does get in the way though
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: lol!
<Unfrgiven> Yagisan: wow thats young!
<Unfrgiven> Yagisan: how old are you now?
<Yagisan> Unfrgiven: 24
<bddebian> ajmitch: No, I think crimsun likes to chastise me
<ajmitch> bddebian: that's my job
<bddebian> Ah
<Yagisan> Unfrgiven: 7 years with the same woman. almost time for a celebrity style divorce
<ajmitch> that way you can just put me on /ignore & not have to worry
<Unfrgiven> Yagisan: haha. you're just missing the celebrity part ;)
<bddebian> So what's up with the search.  Now searching bugs in Ubuntu for Universe I get 10
<Hobbsee> bddebian: it's borked again?
<LaserJock> yeah, the shouldn't be filed against "ubuntu"
<bddebian> ajmitch: I would never put you on ignore honey
<Yagisan> shit. I think I found a picture of me at UDU
<ajmitch> Yagisan: where?
<Unfrgiven> Yagisan: do share
<Yagisan> http://gallery.linuxguru.net/UbuntuDownUnder-4-2005/img_0311
<Yagisan> that unshaven guy with the had on backwards looks like me
<ajmitch> bddebian: I find 1471 universe bugs
<bddebian> ajmitch: URL?
<Unfrgiven> Yagisan: with the brown shirt?
<ajmitch> Yagisan: that's bradb
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch: thats what i was gonna say
<ajmitch> bddebian: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bugs?field.searchtext=&orderby=-priority%2C-severity&field.status%3Alist=Unconfirmed&field.status%3Alist=Needs+Info&field.status%3Alist=Confirmed&field.status%3Alist=In+Progress&field.status%3Alist=Fix+Committed&assignee_option=any&field.assignee=&field.owner=&field.component=3&field.component-empty-marker=1&field.omit_dupes.used=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_patch.used=&field.has_no_pac
<ajmitch> don't you love launchpad URLs?
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch: woah!
<Yagisan> I need tho scan a pic of myself
<bddebian> No :-)
<Yagisan> I'm freaked out
<ajmitch> that was the result of going to distros/ubuntu/+bugs, then advanced search
<ajmitch> tick universe, hit search
<Yagisan> there are people that look like me =-O
<ajmitch> Yagisan: only from the side
<LaserJock> Yagisan: maybe they need retinal scans at the dev conferences so they can determine who is who ;-)
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: tinyurl.com?  :P
<Hobbsee> well at least i wouldnt be hard to find :P
<Hobbsee> if i were there
<ajmitch> I think I've got a few UDU photos
<ajmitch> none from UBZ, with the camera+laptop going AWOL
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: you never know, there might be dozens of skinny girls there ;-)
<Yagisan> I'll hunt up and scan a few pics of me after lunch
<Unfrgiven> alrighty all, ive gotta go... its time for ultimate frisbee!
<ajmitch> have fun :)
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: girls + ubuntu = a fairly rare combination
<Hobbsee> have fun Unfrgiven!
<ajmitch> you mean girls+ubuntu+involved in development
<ajmitch> since we seem to scare away most of them
<LaserJock> what US?
<LaserJock> no way
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: ah yes, of course
<Yagisan> LaserJock: with what 100 of us trying to hit on the same girl, no, they don't last long
<Hobbsee> LOL!
<bddebian> heh
<LaserJock> well, as long as it isn't tooo obvious ;-)
<ajmitch> Yagisan: and that's even with quite a few of them being married..
<Yagisan> ajmitch: hey, according to my wife, I only hit on the slanty chicks
<ajmitch> haha
<Hobbsee> lol
<Hobbsee> good thing i've developed a thick skin :D
<ajmitch> heh
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: do you really get hit on that much? I hope -motu is above that sort of behaviour :-)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: no, she gets jumped on here more than hit on
<LaserJock> ah yes, StevenK and his acrobatics ;-)
<Yagisan> my wife isn't happy when I'm in Japan, at Tokyo Disney, watching the parade is like watching some soft-porn movie. :-D
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: nah, not here.  there are a couple of times where i'm a bit...hmmm...starting to think "okay, leave me alone", but i dont think that's really from you guys.  At work it's far more common
<Hobbsee> hehe @ the jumping on
<Hobbsee> it's okay when i can laugh at it, and enjoy it - but as soon as it starts to make me uncomfortable or whatever, then...well that's when it should stop lol
* Hobbsee can usually laugh and enjoy it
<ajmitch> as long as people get the hint to stop :)
<Hobbsee> heh yeah...they usually do...
<Hobbsee> or i sign out, either way
<bddebian> There sure have been a lot of "In Progress" bugs that have been in progress for a while :-)
<bddebian> Hey jaldhar
<ajmitch> bddebian: of course, we're lazy
<LaserJock> bddebian: yeah, well it isn't so easy for some of us mere mortals
<Yagisan> here we are. This is an older picture of me (after a shave) http://eyagi.bpa.nu/~jamie/uf/Yagisan.jpg
<jaldhar> bddebian: hello again
<LaserJock> btw, I just fired up America's Army on the macintel. It's very slow, but it works.
<ajmitch> Yagisan: haha, nice pic there :)
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: hehe!
<bddebian> There you guys go again
<Yagisan> that was when my parents in law visited last year. My little girl is much bigger now
<ajmitch> bddebian: don't worry, I don't plan to worship you ;)
<bddebian> I had no doubts about that
<ajmitch> haha
<Yagisan> here we are. last pic. me when I was young and handsome. http://eyagi.bpa.nu/~jamie/uf/yagi_and_yama.jpg
<Yagisan> I look so old now
<Hobbsee> pretty :)
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: yeah she is, but she's also blind. I mean, she picked me, so she obviously can't see well
<Hobbsee> really?
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: is your daughter blind as well then?
<Hobbsee> or did she miss out on that?
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: too literal!
<ajmitch> haha
* Yagisan wonders if Hobsee fancies him
<ubuntuology> * Yagisan wonders if Hobsee fancies him
<Yagisan> cool
<ubuntuology> sorry
<ubuntuology> didn't mean to type that
<Yagisan> damm, I was hoping for more echos
<ajmitch> I think we're all just watching you dig the hole
<Hobbsee> what????
* Hobbsee kicks Yagisan off the face of the planet
<ajmitch> also managing that rare skill of getting both feet in the mouth
<Hobbsee> and if you use tab completion, you dont get people's nick wrong...
<Yagisan> I would but I can't type well with one hand on keyboard and one hand holding kid
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: it seems so
<Yagisan> ajmitch: rare skill ? my friend, I have master the art of sticking my feet into my mouth, often up to the knee or higher
<ajmitch> Yagisan: quite impressive
<ubuntuology> is this how the MOTU irc chat usually is?
<Yagisan> after that kick, my back feels much better, thanks Hobbsee
<ajmitch> ubuntuology: not usually
<Hobbsee> ubuntuology: ah...not usually...
<bddebian> Usually no one says anything :-)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<ajmitch> we do often talk about development as well :)
<Hobbsee> oh yes...occasionally..
<ubuntuology> lol
<Yagisan> ubuntuology: no, but we do switch to dev work to. It's our social room and work room,
* bddebian assigns all zope bugs to ajmitch
<ubuntuology> cool, I was reading the debian package guidelines and thought I'd watch conversations on IRC. I'm pretty new to ubuntu not the new to linux though.
<ajmitch> bddebian: thanks
<ajmitch> bddebian: I'll probably end up with them anyway, those that are in universe
<bddebian> ajmitch: Anytime buddy :-)
<Yagisan> time to feed my little one. she's trying to help herself to the food.
<ajmitch> just waiting for beta freeze to end, and the syncs that doko requested to go through
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: when's the beta out?
<ajmitch> april 20
<Yagisan> biab.
<Hobbsee> all i know about is the kubuntu meeting next friday, which is after the beta
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: US april 20, i take it?
* Hobbsee prepares to have her inbox flooded again then
<ajmitch> I guess so
<ajmitch> or maybe london time
* Hobbsee nods
<ajmitch> depends on what issues come up
<ajmitch> mdz is apparantly in london at the moment
<Hobbsee> fair enough
<ajmitch> so hopefully universe is in reasonable shape
<VoX> there seems to be a problem with gdesklets and seahorse under dapper on amd64
<VoX> during the last dist-upgrade, gdesklets was upgraded, but the upgrade failed when trying to overwrite /usr/share/mime/mime.cache, which is also in package seahorse.
<VoX> when seahorse was removed, the upgrade finished without error.
<VoX> when trying to re-install seahorse, the same problem arrose
<ajmitch> VoX: have you filed bugs for these?
<ajmitch> or checked for existing bugs in these packages
<VoX> there's a bug listed for i386, but not a64
<ajmitch> it'll be the same on all architectures, most bugs aren't arch-specific
<VoX> righto
<chillywilly> are there any packages for madwifi-ng drivers in dapper?
<ajmitch> talk to Unfrgiven
<ajmitch> he's been working on some
<chillywilly> attempting to build them but it complains about /lib/modules/`uname -r`/build dir missing
<ajmitch> and you have the appropriate headers installed?
<chillywilly> prolly not ;)
<ajmitch> then install them..
<chillywilly> ya think :)?
<LaserJock> ok guys (and gal) I've got a pic on my LP page if anybody is interested (I don't know why you would but...) : https://launchpad.net/people/mantha
<chillywilly> frellin laptop needs wireless again...
<ajmitch> today seems to be a day for photos
<LaserJock> sure
<chillywilly> physical chemistry eh?
<jmg> gah
<ajmitch> jmg: problems?
<jmg> how do i attach a patch to a bug in malone?
<chillywilly> I suppose I'll be good and leave that one alone ;)
<ajmitch> jmg: you have to file the bug first, then add attachment
<jmg> ajmitch: it only has "add comment"
<ajmitch> I think add attachment is on the left this week
<LaserJock> chillywilly: heck yeah! chemistry rulz ;-)
<chillywilly> let's see if network manager can find my wireless
<ajmitch> in the portlet that starts with 'overview'
<jmg> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kernel-package/+bug/40088
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 40088 in kernel-package "[PATCH]  Support i386 Xen subarch" [Normal,Unconfirmed] 
<jmg> found it :)
<ajmitch> great
<jmg> now to build xen 3.0.2 :)
<Kyral> Xen huh
<Kyral> wha?
<jmg> Kyral go back to sleep sorry :)
<Kyral> What about Xen? :D
<Kyral> *twitch*
* Kyral smacks jmg
<jmg> Kyral read the bug report
<chillywilly> and now the network manager doesn't show up in the notfication thingy at all...
<Kyral> You cannot use Xen with the 2.6.16 Kernels
<Kyral> hell IIRC you can only use it with the 2.6.11 kernel
* jmg smacks Kyral
<jmg> get with the program
<Kyral> What>
<jmg> xen 3.0.2 is a patch to 2.6.12
<jmg> er
<jmg> 2.6.16*
<Kyral> okay
<Kyral> didn't know that lol
<Kyral> my server is still running Xen 2 :P
<ajmitch> jmg: thanks for doing that, I was tempted to do that smacking myself :)
* Kyral falls down
<Kyral> So unloved.....
<LaserJock> Kyral seems to have the bddebian complex :-)
<Kyral> huh?
* LaserJock smacks Kyral, jeeze pay attention ;-)
<LaserJock> Kyral: does that Xen stuff work pretty well?
<Kyral> LaserJock, yanno my domain?
<Kyral> Azuredreams.us?
<LaserJock> yeah
<Kyral> completely powered by Xen
* bddebian hugs Kyral :-)
<jmg> LaserJock: http://thoughtcrime.org.nz/~cartel/ubuntu/etch-on-dapper-.jpg
<Kyral> Actually its Etch on Breezy lol
<jmg> Kyral you fool, its dapper
<Kyral> not mine!
<Kyral> Would YOU use Dapper for a server right now?!
<jmg> Im not talking about yours
<jmg> I wouldnt use ubuntu for a server right now :-)
<Kyral> I didn't have a Debian install disc on me :P
<LaserJock> I'm going to make a BetaRlease server ;-)
<Kyral> Breezy is the Hypervisor
<Kyral> the domains themselves are Debian
<jmg> That's stupid :)
* chillywilly hugs bddebian
<bddebian> :-)
<jmg> LaserJock: im going to make xenubuntu livedvd :)
<LaserJock> so can you run an OS from Ubuntu with it?
<LaserJock> any I mean
<Kyral> not XP
<Kyral> nor OSX
<Kyral> the kernel of the OS itself has to be patched
<chillywilly> blarg...
<jmg> boot the casper livecd images of the other ubuntus in xen
<Kyral> the Guest Domain
<chillywilly> what happened to the network manager applet...
<jmg> Kyral not if you use vmx
<Kyral> vmx?
<jmg> intel virtualisation crap
<Kyral> is that that built in virtualization stuff the new Intels have?
<jmg> yes
<Kyral> yah
<Kyral> dude
<Kyral> I'm shit poor
<jmg> use qemu
<LaserJock> I've played a bit with qemu on my macintel but so far it is just emulation and pretty slow
<Kyral> but then you still need a Linux XenGuest to run it one
<jmg> I run qemu inside xen
<jmg> and xen inside qemu inside xen
<jmg> :-)
<LaserJock> yikes
<Kyral> That would get horrible I think
<jmg> laserJock: best way to test xen-unstable
<Kyral> even with KQemu
<jmg> Kyral: its pretty bad
<jmg> Kyral: but better than rebooting to a crash
<LaserJock> I think I'm just going to have to wait until Dapper+1 or something before I get Ubuntu on this thing :(
<LaserJock> right now my Ubuntu box is in pieces, I'm going to merge 2 computers into one and then I'll put Dapper Beta Release on it as a server
<chillywilly> what's the --sm-disable arg mean for an applet?
<Kyral> whoops
<ajmitch> chillywilly: disable session-management, I imagine
<chillywilly> ok
<chillywilly> the man page tells you where to look to get it to show up in the notification area but the README it talks about does not exist...
* ajmitch never worried about it
<ajmitch> it just worked for me :)
<chillywilly> well it's running in the background but it's not there
<chillywilly> hmmm...whatis my passphrase...
<chillywilly> :)))
<chillywilly> looks like it is working
<chillywilly> bah...
<chillywilly> running wpa_supplicant by hand and then bringing the interface up /etc/network/interfaces worked fine
* Yagisan returns to continue digging my hole
<ajmitch> Yagisan: don't worry, hobbsee seems to have gone anyway :)
<Yagisan> pity, I was hoping you could lend me a shovel
<ajmitch> oh no, I was happy to let you dig all by yourself
<ajmitch> you were doing a superb job
<Yagisan> not really. My form is down this week
<Yagisan> normally I get a response much quicker, but it must be the cold I've caught
<ajmitch> hopefully you haven't scared her off for good
<Yagisan> nah
<Yagisan> she'll be back.
<ajmitch> no doubt
<ajmitch> time for me to wander off back to the flat & waste time there instead of here
<Yagisan> LaserJock looks rather purple in his photo
<Yagisan> ajmitch @ work ?
<ajmitch> at uni, in the CS lab wasting time :)
<ajmitch> I was meant to be working today but still don't have access to the boxes
<LaserJock> Yagisan: purple, hmmm
<ajmitch> tomorrow, we hope..
<Yagisan> ajmitch: I'm waiting to see if my application to join upstream for my beloved deng is accepted
<ajmitch> good luck
<Yagisan> ajmitch: I'm the last linux user left to care for it,
<Yagisan> ajmitch: so I spent last night actually getting it to build again
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> anyway, I'll be back later
<Yagisan> no worries, catch you later ajmitch
<chillywilly> that frellin applet doesn't work... :-/
<phanatic> mornin
<Gloubiboulga> hi phanatic
<phanatic> hey Gloubiboulga :)
<cbx33> hi all, got a package that no longer has the old debian version 0.20, debian is on 0.23 ubuntu is still on 0.20, what would be the sync procedure in this case?
<ajmitch> cbx33: write up an upstream version freeze exception report, detailing why it should be updated, and giving the diffstat & changelog diff
<ajmitch> instructions are on the wiki somewhere if I can find them :)
<ajmitch> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/UVFStatus
<carthik> err, tortho in #ubuntu-bugs just confirmed Bug 5153 - which should be fixed by changing a couple of dependencies...
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 5153 in mythplugins "MythWeb Dependencies" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/5153
<cbx33> thanx ajmitch
<cbx33> ajmitch: I've never done a UVF pacakge before....what's a diffstat, and against what do i do the diff of the upstream
<cbx33> if you have time
<ajmitch> you do a recursive diff of the 2 upstream trees
<ajmitch> eg diff -Naur package-0.20 package-0.23 | diffstat > file
<cbx33> of the source trees?
<cbx33> forgive me stupidity here
<ajmitch> yes
<cbx33> is that the original sources, unmodified?
<cbx33> or against the debian.23 qand the ubuntu .20
<ajmitch> unmodified sources, iirc
<jmg> ubuntu xen 3.0.2 packages -> deb http://debian.thoughtcrime.co.nz/ubuntu/ dapper main xen
<jmg> vote for me: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kernel-package/+bug/40088
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 40088 in kernel-package "[PATCH]  Support i386 Xen subarch" [Normal,Unconfirmed] 
<cbx33> thank you ajmitch
<ajmitch> jmg: vote for you? bugfixing is hardly a democracy :)
<Mithrandir> jmg: bugs in malone are not "voted for", please stop spamming the development channels.
<jmg> Mithrandir: ack
<jmg> Mithrandir: apologies
<cbx33> ah dang it
<cbx33> what looked like a simple solution has now turned into a string of dependencies
<cbx33> I need to resync two packages at least which means getting to UVFs
<cbx33> something i don;tthink will happen this latein the game
<cbx33> I'll repackage anyway and submit to the team
<Hobbsee> hi everyone
<ajmitch> hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> :) there is someone around
<ajmitch> welcome back
<ajmitch> sure :)
<Hobbsee> thanks :)
* ajmitch never really leaves
<Hobbsee> hehe - you live here?
<ajmitch> at times I wonder
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> any more botspam?
<ajmitch> plenty
<ajmitch> seveas is around to deal with it now
<Hobbsee> hehe oh good
<ajmitch> dist-upgrade is taking awhile tonight
<ajmitch> ~70K/sec
<Lathiat> beats 10K/s shaped? :)
<ajmitch> a bit :)
<ajmitch> though I've only used 15GB, with 4 days to go in the billing cycle
* StevenK belatedly jumps on Hobbsee.
* Hobbsee swears and curses
<Hobbsee> hi StevenK
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: hehe true
<Hobbsee> warning:  typing may well be baf
<Hobbsee> s/baf/bad
* StevenK finally figures out what is wrong with his prac for SP2.
<ajmitch> hello StevenK
* StevenK waves
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: glad to see that they've all gone to #kde now...
<ajmitch> oh that's good
<ajmitch> nobody uses those channels :)
<ajmitch> how is kubuntu going now?
<ajmitch> everything sorted for the beta?
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> i'm not sure...
<Hobbsee> *falls off chair*  - ouch!
<ajmitch> sounds like a silly thing to do
<Hobbsee> yeah, to go and injure myself more, great
<ajmitch> heh
<StevenK> Hobbsee: I heard about the accident, you're okay?
<Hobbsee> StevenK: yeah, i am
<ajmitch> as long as you can still work a computer & fix packages :)
<Hobbsee> ajmitch
<ajmitch> Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: well, it's kinda hard to type, seeing as i just cut up my finger a bit...
<ajmitch> ouch
* StevenK had someone hit his car on the M4 last week.
<Hobbsee> eek!
<StevenK> It was just a love tap, so no damage.
<Hobbsee> so you were one of thoes many accidents hey?
<Hobbsee> lol niccccccccccccccce!
<Hobbsee> work you silly C key, dammit!
* Hobbsee maintains that bandaids are bad for typing!
<ajmitch> what did you do to slice up your finger?
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Note that the C key is working, just a little too well.
<StevenK> Hobbsee: What about a liquid bandaid?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: peeling potatoes...
<ajmitch> ah..
<Hobbsee> blood everywhere without a bandaid, which is kinda inconvenient...
<Hobbsee> s4et... it is now, yes.  just not when i first wanted it too
<ajmitch> especially when you don't want to get blood all over the potatoes
<Hobbsee> or my keyboard
<Hobbsee> mum finished the potatoes
<ajmitch> and it was on your writing hand, too?
<Hobbsee> no, other hand
<ajmitch> not so bad then
<Hobbsee> not the hand i use for the touchpad at work either, which is good
<StevenK> Oh, bloody hell.
<StevenK> The totals are still different.
<ajmitch> what are you working on?
<StevenK> A prac for uni.
<ajmitch> ah, nice
<StevenK> Async I/O under Windows.
* ajmitch has a raytracer to get working for uni
<StevenK> Right, works.
<StevenK> 103 lines of C to do the exercise, and a 20 line C++ program to generate the file required for the exercise.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: so a good rm -rf *.cpp would do wonders?
* Hobbsee ducks
<StevenK> Hobbsee: The C++ file I can write off the top of my head.
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: and replace it with C# or something?
<Hobbsee> well, and whatever the extnesion of c files are
* StevenK gags ajmitch.
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: yeah, something like that
<StevenK> Hobbsee: .c? :-)
<Hobbsee> ah ok
* StevenK ponders hurting Hobbsee's head with Windows C code.
<ajmitch> StevenK: cruel & unusual punishment
* StevenK grins evilly.
<Hobbsee> hehe
* Hobbsee ponders hurting StevenK with a large baseball bat
* Mithrandir tickles Hobbsee and StevenK
* Hobbsee pokes Mithrandir sharply in the ribs
* Mithrandir gets blood on his shirt
* StevenK ponders finding dinner.
<Hobbsee> i'm wearing a bandiad now silly - hence the dodgy typing
<StevenK> Hobbsee: What's your excuse the rest of the time?
* Hobbsee offers StevenK some of the chips she bougth last night
* StevenK ducks.
* Hobbsee doesnt type dodgily, the rest of the time :P
* StevenK should go and put some rice on to cook.
<Hobbsee> silly StevenK
<ajmitch> hm
* Hobbsee ponders
<ajmitch> Mithrandir: how's the release shaping up?
<Mithrandir> ajmitch: a bit too much of a disarray still, but I'm hoping we'll be able to pull it off for tomorrow.
<Mithrandir> ajmitch: LP being slow is seriously hampering us, though
<ajmitch> doesn't surprise me
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: is the search borked today, or working?  :P
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: for malone?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: yes
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: no idea.
<ajmitch> afaik it's not too badly broken today
<lifeless> hey ajmitch
<cbx33> ajmitch: the pacakge i was fixing, is dependant on another package that hasn't been synced
<cbx33> and that depends on another
<cbx33> eeek what a mess
<ajmitch> hey lifeless, how's it going?
<ajmitch> cbx33: often the way
* Hobbsee wavs to lifeless 
<Hobbsee> s/wavs/waves
* lifeless waves around
<lifeless> ajmitch: good, debsigging
<ajmitch> nice
<Toadstool> hi
* ajmitch hasn't been to any debian/ubuntu-related meetups since LCA
<ajmitch> hello Toadstool
<Toadstool> good morning ajmitch
<sivang> morning all
<Toadstool> morning sivang
<sivang> hey Toadstool
<Hobbsee_away> dinner
<lifeless> ajmitch: dude, come to sydney
<lifeless> ajmitch: we have them monthly
<ajmitch> it'd be fun
<ajmitch> maybe next year :)
<Hobbsee_away> lifeless: that'd be fun.  where at?
<StevenK> Hobbsee_away: Don't you read the SLUG list?
<lifeless> Hobbsee_away: cohi bar
<Hobbsee_away> StevenK: no
<ajmitch> Hobbsee_away: eaten dinner already? :)
<Hobbsee_away> ajmitchn
<Hobbsee_away> ajmitch: no, i'm gionfg...
<Hobbsee_away> lol
* Hobbsee_away is really awway
* ajmitch is still on the LUV & mlug lists, for some reason
<Hobbsee_away> cursed finger...
<ajmitch> lifeless: I'll probably move to .au in a year or two anyway - currently I'm thinking of melbourne since I have a few contacts there
<ajmitch> though there seem to be enough sydney people in here
<zakame> hi
<ajmitch> hi zakame
<zakame> hello ajmitch :)
<ajmitch> lifeless: fyi, I seem to have a branch that's confusing bzr - bzr info says it's format 6, bzr check says format 4
<ajmitch> zakame: I get md5sum mismatch when doign apt-get source digikam
<ajmitch> so it's not just you seeing problems :)
<zakame> thanks ajmitch :)
<lifeless> ajmitch: shouldn't be confused, thats probably different fields its reporting on
<ajmitch> lifeless: right, then the problem is that I can't do bzr status
<ajmitch> :0:> bzr status
<ajmitch> bzr: ERROR: No such file: u'/home/ajmitch/debian/phpgroupware/phpgroupware/phpgroupware-0.9.16.010/debian/.bzr/pending-merges': [Errno 2]  No such file or directory: u'/home/ajmitch/debian/phpgroupware/phpgroupware/phpgroupware-0.9.16.010/debian/.bzr/pending-merges'
<lifeless> ajmitch: theres this channel, #bzr
<ajmitch> I know.. :)
<lifeless> and its quite good at things like this :)
<ajmitch> but it's a whole 2 keystrokes to change channels
<lifeless> you pushed over sftp using 0.8pre and a 0.7 branch format
<lifeless> know glitch
<ajmitch> right
<StevenK> ajmitch: That's a wierd promot
<StevenK> Er, prompt
<ajmitch> StevenK: it's just part of it
<StevenK> ajmitch: But ending a prompt with a > ?
<ajmitch> why not? :)
<StevenK> It just seems strange - I'm used to %, $ and #
<ajmitch> I'm a strange sort of person
<zakame> hi \sh !
<\sh> huhu
<ajmitch> hey \sh
<Gloubiboulga> hi \sh :)
<\sh> guys, managed to get the freelance job :)
<zakame> rocking!
<ajmitch> \sh: congrats!
<\sh> ajmitch: now only the money transfer is missing :)
<ajmitch> heh
<cbx33> hice one \sh
<cbx33> my wifes a free lance web designer, what freelance are you doing?
<\sh> cbx33: the official title is senior system administrator :) right now, I'm responsible to setup some fai servers for different network clouds :)
<ajmitch> \sh: blogged it yet? :)
<\sh> ajmitch: no nda :)
<ajmitch> yay
<\sh> everything is top secret :)
<cbx33> ooooooooh
* cbx33 is impressed
<StevenK> \sh: So now you've told us a little, you need to kill us?
<\sh> i didn't tell anyone anything :)
<ajmitch> of course not
<ajmitch> we know nothing
<zakame> are universe/multiver uploads delayed today due to the beta release?
<tseng> probably
<dholbach> zakame: they might be lower priority, but they're not "blocked and queued up" afaik
<zakame> ah
<tseng> Kamion cant wait hours for someone who sneaks a bunch of universe builds up in his way
<zakame> I thought my dh_iconcache uploads are >/dev/null :/
<tseng> so, be polite
<zakame> ok =)
<Unfrgiven> \sh: grats mate!
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: oh good!  join us in sydney.
<Hobbsee> better than melbourne..
<kelmo> blasphemy
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Kyral> Morning
<slougi> hi all, "feature freeze" == no updated packages?
<slougi> morning Kyral
<Kyral> and bye again :P
<zul> heylo
<Hobbsee> no uploads, even bug fixes, until after the beta, right?
<zul> Hobbsee: you might want to tell bdebian about that
<Hobbsee> zul: okay, cool, will do.  the guy didnt assign it
<zul> Hobbsee: uploading to universe is ok though
<slougi> well since noone answered my previous question ;) I will ask another one: if I want to request a package (mercurial) to be updated, how do I go about doing it?
<Unfrgiven> woah! dapper+1 = edgy eft!
<Hobbsee> slougi: is it already in ubuntu and or debian?
<Hobbsee> and is the update just bug fixes, or a proper update?
<slougi> Hobbsee: it's in universe
<slougi> Hobbsee: a proper update
<slougi> from 0.7 (currently in universe) to 0.8.1
<Hobbsee> slougi: it'll have to wait till dapper+1 then
<slougi> ah right
<slougi> wasn't clear on the policy on updates
<Unfrgiven> \sh: hey dude
<Hobbsee> slougi: afaik, anyway
<slougi> ok
<\sh> re
<Hobbsee> any motu's around?
<siretart> \sh: congratulations on the new job! :)
<\sh> siretart: thx
<zul> \sh: what are you going to be doing?
<\sh> zul: right now I have a freelancer job :)
<zul> cool..
<siretart> yay. finally I got the lastfm package from debian working on dapper..
<jsgotangco> whoa
<siretart> it requires the newer libqt4 from debian, I merged the changes locally, but I'm not sure if they are suitable for dapper
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+oo Hobbsee Ubugtu]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o Hobbsee]  by ChanServ
<Hobbsee> might help
<siretart> gnarf. the debdiff on libqt4 alone is 400k big. :/
<siretart> Hobbsee: why does Ubugtu need to be operator?
<Hobbsee> siretart: i was under the impression that to boot a user, for a massive spam attack, the person/bot who's doign the booting needs to be an op
<Hobbsee> at least, that's how it works in #ubuntu/#kubuntu, IIRC, with the exploits
<Seveas> Hobbsee, #ubuntu-motu hasn't been attacked
<Seveas> so it's not needed
<Hobbsee> oh.  yet.
* Hobbsee goes off and hides.
* Hobbsee has seen multiple channels get hit multiple times - hard to remember which ones have and havent - and why some are getting hit, as opposed to others
* Hobbsee also tends to use the "safe rather than sorry method, but oh well
<freeflying> dholbach: ping
<dholbach> freeflying: pong
<freeflying> dholbach: how about the UVFe of cmake
<dholbach> freeflying: bug no?
<freeflying> bug 36168
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 36168 in cmake "need new release for build kde4 package " [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/36168
<dholbach> freeflying: can you attach a diff of the ChangeLog?
<dholbach> freeflying: the changes are fairly large
<freeflying> dholbach: author hasn't provide the Changelog
<dholbach> freeflying: is there any information on any website so we can check WHAT was changed in the 100.000 lines of changes?
<freeflying> dholbach: just a moment , I show you the website of cmake
<dholbach> freeflying: attach it to the bug report please
<dholbach> freeflying: I added some other requests as well
<dholbach> we have to be VERY careful
<dholbach> cmake is a piece of infrastructure which other packages may use
<freeflying> dholbach: okey
<zul> is there karma for uploads?
<ogra> "rng-tools  - Daemon to use a Hardware TRNG"
<ogra> wow, what a helpful description :)
<ogra> why didnt he directly write "rng-tools - tools for rng" ?
<zul> ogra: isnt it
<ogra> no idea, since i dont know what trng is ;)
<zul> me either..
<zul> i just fix bugs..:)
<ogra> :)
<slougi> is universe currently frozen with regard to
<slougi> *to package updates
<zul> like bug fixes?
<ogra> bugfixes are generally fine
<slougi> no, version bumps
<slougi> guess it is
<ogra> wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperRessources tells you about syncs but you need upstream versin freeze exceptions for all newer upstrem versions ... we might lock down even more after beta release (tomorrow)
<slougi> so no chance of a mercurial version bump from 0.7 to 0.8? :)
<slomo> slougi: file a UVF exception and we'll see
<slougi> right
<ogra> it shouldnd just add random new featurews
<ogra> but close serious bugs
<ogra> then you'll get it through more easy
<ogra> (the smaller the diff between the packages that has to be reviewed, the easier it gets)
<slougi> it's more in line with "Minor fixes, if the upstream change is a micro-increment (or equivalent)"
<slougi> they did bump the version number, but the changes are quite minimal, mainly ui convenience
<slougi> anyway, food, bbiab
<ogra> no serious bugfixes then ?
<crimsun> slomo: one of the more serious bugs on vlc (crashes on matroska files) requires a svn snap, which I'm sure isn't the optimal solution. Backporting all the necessary patches has become an NP-hard problem, so I'm not inclined to attempt it any further. So our choices are to either ignore the matroska issue and disable matroska support for Dapper's vlc, or attempt a svn snap (which closes another stacking bug as well). Opinions?
<slomo> crimsun: what other changes are in svn?
<slomo> crimsun: anything great and experimental? ;)
<crimsun> slomo: tons, nearly all bug fixes
<slomo> sounds good... why don't you want a svn snapshot?
<crimsun> supporting a svn snap (like the previous cups in main issue) for 3+ years is not my idea of fun
<crimsun> I'll roll a svn snap, call for testers, and have a better idea if a UVF exception is necessary by next week
<slomo> crimsun: hehe ok :) could you convince upstream to make a release? ;)
<crimsun> slomo: upstream is not so easily persuaded, unfortunately
<slomo> ah, like the mplayer guys? ;)
<crimsun> heh
* crimsun scurries to lecture
<dolson> I never heard of an Eft before :\
<jpatrick> eft?
<dolson> yes, Edgy Eft
<dolson> it's a young newt, apparently
<LaserJock> morning MOTULand
<jpatrick> hi LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi jpatrick
<Tonio_> LaserJock: morning :)
<LaserJock> ahh, looks like KDE is awake anyway ;-)
<LaserJock> whre is the annoucement of Edgy Eft?
<dholbach> u-d-a
<LaserJock> hmm, I haven't gotten it yet, must be because I batch u-d-a
<jpatrick> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2006-April/000064.html
<LaserJock> hmm, yeah, I don't see it in u-d-a
<hub> go for edgy
<hub> so "Distribution = Edgy" from now on?
<ogra> from now on ?
<ogra> we're only in beta freeze of dapper :)
<hub> ogra: well, new packages on REVU :-)
* LaserJock has to do some string replacements in the Ubuntu Packaging Guide now ;-)
* jpatrick has to study for exam
<hub> anyone know if somebody has made packages for the D compiler?
<hub> there is a gcc frontend
<azeem> pvanhoof did, I heard
<azeem> ;)
<hub> for FC
<hub> not for Ubuntu
<crimsun> there have been since December 2004 according to google
<hub> ah
<ivoks> anyone interested in revival of ebuntu?
<wasabi> meaning?
<ivoks> enlightenment
<zul> i havent used enlightenment for ages
<ivoks> well... i love it
<ivoks> ubuntu has all the packages needed to make it great
<nomed> ivoks: in dapper ?
<ivoks> yes
<ivoks> i have setup:
<ivoks> e16+trayer+gkrellm+gnome-volume-manager+gnome-power-manager+network-manager+nm-applet+gnome-screensaver
<ivoks> all this under 80MB of RAM
<ivoks> sylpheed-claws-gtk2 as email client
<LaserJock> ivoks: what is the current status of ebuntu
<ivoks> LaserJock: dead
<ogra> ivoks, only if you rename it
<ivoks> ogra: i agree :)
<zul> maybe Eubuntu :)
<LaserJock> ivoks: really? monzie didn't want to do more?
<ivoks> LaserJock: i don't see anything happening
<ivoks> and i really dislike e17
<ivoks> i hope it never gets released :)
<dolson> is ebuntu still done with checkinstall?
<LaserJock> I believe so
<dolson> how Edgy
<nomed> ivoks: it'll be released soon :)
<ogra> zul, eubuntu "bruxelles breaker" ?
<LaserJock> but we kinda told monzie that it wouldn't make Dapper so I think that probably was a bit of a turnoff
<zul> hehe..
<ivoks> nomed: don't talk like that! it might happen, you know :)
<nomed> ivoks: yes it'll happen soon .. serously :)
<dolson> he can't really expect a big thing like this to be released if it's done with checkinstall, can he? I mean, with no dependency handling and such
<ivoks> LaserJock: well, ebuntu or whatever we would call it, can't make into dapper
<ivoks> dolson: that's cause he wants e17
<ivoks> nomed: well, then e17 needs new theme
<ivoks> i had more robust, old-school desktop, on my mind
<ivoks> with new fancy things like automounting (g-v-m), power saving (g-p-m)
<ivoks> xfce doesn't look lightweight anymore :/
<ivoks> it looks like... well... gnome :)
<dolson> looks aren't everything
<ivoks> dolson: it feels like gnome
<Kyral> The "Edgy Efit" eh? :D
<ivoks> but it's ok project and i'm sure lots of people love and use it
<dolson> Eft
<dolson> Edgy Eft is Eff'd
<dolson> I hope they use Fuzzy Ferret next
<Kyral> I kinda like Mark's idea
<Kyral> the way I read it was "Guys....go wild"
* Kyral grins :D
<Kyral> who was talking about Xen integration last night?
<LaserJock> jmg I think
<Kyral> Should I spec it now?
<Kyral> Because I <3 Xen and would LOVE to work on it
* Kyral has a buncha ideas...but doesn't know if they are good ones :P
<Kyral> Somehow I have the feeling that Edgy will be a little more "dev" oriented....
<Kyral> or at least have more features for devs
<Kyral> ping jmg
<nomed> ivoks: i would say e17 needs dbus, hal and a fm :)
<Kyral> Do we even have the "GNOME" package?
<ivoks> nomed: right
* Kyral is energized now :D
<Kyral> Anyone can add a spec right?
<LaserJock> Kyral: yes, I believe so
<Kyral> well, there is already a Xen thing on the Specs...
<LaserJock> I should probably get some going myself
<Kyral> hmm, I think I can work with jmg on it
<Kyral> I wanna give an option almost like Debian
<Kyral> I mean, instead of installing Ubuntu-Desktop to get GNOME
<Kyral> you should be able to install just "GNOME"
<Kyral> not all the other crap :D
<ivoks> well... 'night guys
<trappist> if I make a change to a package that definitely won't rate a version bump on its own, should I still make a changelog entry with a new version number and submit a debdiff, or is it sufficient to just submit a diff?
<trappist> current example: adding a spanish translation to firefox.desktop
<zul> has anyone considered installing 64bit vmware and trying to fix the adm64 bugs?
<LaserJock> trappist: yeah, if you  don't think it warrants a new version just give a diff of the file you changed
<trappist> LaserJock: thanks
<uniq> who do i contact to be added to the ubuntumembers group in launchpad?
<uniq> nevermind..
<thesaltydog> wait
<thesaltydog> uniq, you should register in the group, add your name to the next Community Council Agenda, and attend it.
<Kyral> Whee! My goodies from the FSF finally got here :D
<uniq> thecore: i'm already approved. But thanks:)
<theCore> uniq, ?
<uniq> sorry.. wrong nick.
<theCore> he
<uniq> thesaltyd left. :] 
<uniq> and i love tab-completion.
<theCore> uniq: same-here :)
<theCore> uniq: nice coincidence, though
<zul> heylo
<ajmitch> hi zul
<ajmitch> zul: you said before about using 64-bit vmware.. why? :)
<cartesian1984> Salutations, I was wondering if there was any intention of including WASTE in universe by the dapper release.
<ajmitch> not knowing what it is, I'd say there's very little chance
<ajmitch> since someone would have to get it packaged & tested in a short amount of time
<cartesian1984> When is software freeze?
<ajmitch> about a month or two ago
<cartesian1984> Ouch....
<cartesian1984> Oh well.
<zul> ajmitch: verify the bugs that say that arent working on amd64, i dont have and amd64
<ajmitch> some exceptions can get made, but they'd be rare
<ajmitch> zul: 64-bit vmware only works on an amd64
<zul> oh...never mind..:)
<robitaille> cartesian1984:  someone already requested it:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Candidates
<ajmitch> zul: a growing number of us have real amd64 installs :)
<zul> yeah...yeah
* ajmitch doesn't have a powerpc install at the moment
#ubuntu-motu 2006-04-25
* crimsun rebuilds his pbuilders for the (N+1)th time due to usb mass storage+suspend interaction
<ajmitch> hi tritium :)
<tritium> hi ajmitch :)
<tritium> crimsun: where do you keep your pbuilder?  on a usb stick or drive?
<crimsun> usb hd
<ajmitch> great, the discussions about edgy have hit various news sites
<ajmitch> including slashdot
<crimsun> this x41 lacks sufficient hd space for pbuilders
<ajmitch> really?
<ajmitch> how much diskspace does it have?
<crimsun> 36G, 29G of which is NTFS
<ajmitch> ah, you have to use windows a bit on there?
<crimsun> yeah
<ajmitch> how unfortunate
<crimsun> quite
* ajmitch is lucky to have a 100GB drive in the laptop
<ajmitch> there's 8GB unallocated with LVM, I think I might use that for sbuild+schroot
<tritium> crimsun: perhaps there's a bright side.  is it 7200 rpm?
<crimsun> tritium: no, but there's an even brighter side than its lower rpm, the fact that it's a Canonical machine
<crimsun> can't really complain about hardware that's loaned/granted to me
<tritium> crimsun: my same philosophy ;)
<crimsun> great, vlc doesn't crash when I run it through valgrind. This is not going to be a fun night.
<Xk2c> crimsun: maybe i could make your day ;)
<Xk2c> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/vtk/+bug/29821/+index
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 29821 in vtk "merge new debian version" [Normal,Fix released] 
<Xk2c> could please have look at it
<LaserJock> Xk2c: I don't think it downgraded
<Xk2c> Then i do not understand
<Xk2c> Version: 4.4.2-8ubuntu1 > Version: 4.4.2-6ubuntu2
<LaserJock> Xk2c: well, it looks like we need to merge a new Debian version
<LaserJock> Xk2c: the current dapper version looks like -8ubuntu1 to me
<Xk2c> doh
<Xk2c> sorry
<Xk2c> my fault
<Xk2c> i checked in the wrong terminal
<LaserJock> heh, that happens
<Xk2c> ;)
<LaserJock> but you realize you shouldn't be using breezy anyway, we have to get going on edgy pretty soon ;-)
<Xk2c> *lol*
<Xk2c> i upgarded my backupsystem yesterday to dapper
<Xk2c> LaserJock: do have something for a bloody beginner to get his handy dirty?
<Xk2c> i check the bug reports but they seem a bit high level
<LaserJock> Xk2c: how do you mean? you don't know how to fix bugs?
<Xk2c> i do not know how to patch and build something yes
<LaserJock> heh, well welcome to the club ;-)
<Xk2c> *lol*
<Xk2c> :D
<Xk2c> but therefor dapper is quite good
<Xk2c> i have to say
<Xk2c> cu
<Hobbsee> morning all
<bmonty> hi Hobbsee
<ajmitch_1> sigh
<ajmitch_1> severe phone line issues today
<Hobbsee> hi ajmitch_1
<Hobbsee> so it  seems
<ajmitch_1> I think it's related to the roadworks outside
<Hobbsee> ajmitch_1: 4 of you...that's pretty good though...can you type from 4 at once?
<ajmitch_1> very noticeable when talking to someone
<ajmitch_1> sadly not
<ajmitch> hopefully it'll stay stable for 5 minutes or so
<ajmitch> if I can be so lucky :)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Toadstool> hey motus
<ajmitch> hi
<Hobbsee> hi Toadstool
<Toadstool> hi Hobbsee and ajmitch
<Toadstool> hum... I've got only 3 hours left to sleep...
<Toadstool> good night :)
<Kyral> hey guys and Hobbsee :P
<Hobbsee> heya Kyral
<Kyral> The Edgy Eft will be most fun :D
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> Kyral: is that what it's really called?
<Kyral> Yah
<jmg> it should have been edgy elephant
<Kyral> oh jmg
* Hobbsee thinks eft=eftpos
<Hobbsee> jmg: yeah, that'd be fun :P
<Kyral> wanna work with me on Xen for Edgy?
<jmg> Kyral: i thought it was me and hunger
<jmg> but sure
<jmg> :)
<Kyral> jmg, at my school, Xen is our specialty
<jmg> xen is my speciality
<jmg> im working on xenifying the livecds :)
<Kyral> Clarkson University
<Kyral> Mean anything to you :P
<jmg> oh you guys had the person that was supposed to do the soc stuff
<jmg> but then he dissapeared :p
* Kyral falls down
<jmg> and made a big announcement and even created xen.cosi.clarkson.edu
<Kyral> I'm gonna talk to the guy responsible for JXenophilla
<jmg> which promptly went offline
<Kyral> Uhh, we have had server troubles
<jmg> xenophilia is crap
<Kyral> we lost a RAID last week
<Kyral> You name another GUI for Xen
<jmg> sounds like you need a new it team
<Kyral> err
<Kyral> LVM Volume
<jmg> xe
<Kyral> meh
<jmg> ive registered xenubuntu.com and .org
<LaserJock> hi Hobbsee, how's the finger?
<Hobbsee> hey LaserJock - it looks like it's been grated, but it stopped bleeding, which is good :D
<Hobbsee> means i can type again!
<LaserJock> good, you sure were having problems yesterday
<ajmitch> LaserJock: a nice polite way of putting it :)
<LaserJock> ajmitch: I'm alway polite ;-)
<Kyral> wtf happened?
<LaserJock> Kyral: Hobbsee cut her finger and so had a bandaid on and couldn't type very well
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: LOL!
* Kyral kisses Hobbsee's finger :P
* Hobbsee thwacks Kyral :P
<Kyral> ow!
<Kyral> at least I didn't kiss you passionately
<Hobbsee> the worst of the spelling errors i took out, you know...
<Hobbsee> urgh...if you did.....you would not be very happy afterwards...
<Kyral> Hammerspace?
<LaserJock> yikes, cool it down kids
<LaserJock> ;-)
<Kyral> KID?!
<Kyral> I'm 20 years old thank you!
<Kyral> :P
<ajmitch> Kyral: yes, exactly.
<Yagisan> G'day all
<Hobbsee> Kyral: yes.  you are a kid.  you're under the age of adulthood...
<Kyral> I'm over 18....
<ajmitch> hi Yagisan
<Hobbsee> thought over there it was 21
<Hobbsee> hi Yagisan
<Kyral> No
* Hobbsee will be able to drink before Kyral can - now that does seem weird!
<Kyral> 21 is when you can DRINK
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: 18 in AUs, 21 in Japan TTBOMK
<Hobbsee> ah, well there you go
<Kyral> 18 you can do everything else
<Hobbsee> seems stupid to me
<Yagisan> and 16 if you want to get laid
<jamessan> Yagisan: depends on the state
<Kyral> yah
<Yagisan> or if you are gay
<Kyral> its like 14 in some states
<jamessan> and the age difference between the involved people
<Yagisan> yeah. just a general guideline
* Yagisan had interesting experience at the doctor
* Hobbsee blocks her ears :P
<Yagisan> Walked into a packed waiting room
<Yagisan> nurse asked how I was
* Hobbsee blocks her eyes as well, which is what she first tried to type
<Yagisan> I thought it was a dumb question. I don't go unless I'm sick
<Yagisan> so I said "Infectious"
<ajmitch> hah
<Yagisan> I got a seat and was seen *very* quickly
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: what'd you tell her?  that you were about to die on the nice clean floor or something, and force her to clean it all up?
<Hobbsee> hehe!
<ajmitch> how long did it take the waiting room to clear?
<Yagisan> no one would sit near me :(
<ajmitch> such a shame
<Yagisan> how can I get better if I don't give it to someone else
<Yagisan> oh well. can I get a NTSC user to confirm that telesync is broken in Bug #39819
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 39819 in avidemux "UVF exception request: avidemux (2.1.1 -> 2.1.2)" [Normal,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39819
<Yagisan> My NTSC dvd is stuffed, so I can't confirm it
<LaserJock> hmm, is 200 Watts too little for a microATX board with 2 hard drive, a graphics card, and 2 cd drives?
<Yagisan> ooh. my exchange gets adsl 2+ next month.
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: yay!
<Hobbsee> is adsl 2 faster than cable?
* Hobbsee always seems to get confused with the speeds
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: 24000/1000
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: thats' "2+" with tpg
* Hobbsee wonders how fast cable is...
<Yagisan> so yaeh, looks faster
<Hobbsee> ah yep
<Hobbsee> nice
* ajmitch__ is giving up on this, I think
<Yagisan> anyone here use an ide to code & debug ? Any suggestions ?
<Kyral> vim
<ajmitch> only emacs, sorry
<Kyral> or emacs
<Kyral> depends on my mood
<Hobbsee> kate :P
<LaserJock> Yagisan: what language?
<Yagisan> C, C++, Makefiles
<Yagisan> sometime x86/amd64 asm
* Hobbsee likes kate, with the terminal at the bottom :P
<LaserJock> Yagisan: would eclipse work?
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: that is one of my favorite features of KDE
<Hobbsee> :P
<Yagisan> LaserJock: I don't know. I'll check it out
<LaserJock> I only know FORTRAN, a little bit of C, and Python so I'm not much help
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: I was using just a text editor, but well, it doesn't catch that many mistakes
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: that is true.  dont they get caught when you compile though?
<seth|lappy> Hobbsee, I use yaKuake instead of the Kate terminal, for some reason
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: some yes. usually after 10-15 minutes of building though.
<Hobbsee> seth|away: mmm ok
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: hehe, good point
<Yagisan> LaserJock: eclipse has a lot of deps, doesn't it.
<LaserJock> Yagisan: it could. I don't actually use it
<LaserJock> I usually use vim or IDLE for python (sometimes SPE too)
<LaserJock> sweet, I just pulled a MB
* Yagisan fires off another build while waiting for eclipse to d/l
<Yagisan> cool. GCC can tell you what functions it is actually building.
* Hobbsee pokes ajmitch__ 
<ajmitch__> hi
<ajmitch__> yes, I'm here for a few more seconds
<Hobbsee> hehe
* ajmitch__ hears another loud crackle
<Hobbsee> ajmitch__: it sounds like you should go into the uni, with a decent connection, and do no uni work :P
* LaserJock thinks it must be the beginning of some sort of aussie invasion. Disruption of communications ;-)
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: exactly.  just you wait..
<LaserJock> well, I feel pretty safe here in the US but I'm sure it is coming ;-)
<Yagisan> yes. just think of all those lamb chops waiting for us over there.
<LaserJock> yikes
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> that's a good point
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: so start the missiles?
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: just as soon as we have enough mint sauce
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> wb ajmitch
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: you think the sheep could replace the kangaroos here, as a form of transport?
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: might be difficult. They do taste good, so it's hard to resist the urge to eat them
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: yes, but there are so many of htem...
<LaserJock> wait, who has all the sheep?
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: the land of new zealand...
<LaserJock> ah, I thought it was .au
<Hobbsee> well, one could argue that it's effectively part of au :P
<ajmitch> .au has more sheep :P
<Hobbsee> going into NZ - there are 2 gates, for customs:  1:  the au + nz gate, 2: the rest of the world
<Yagisan> ajmitch. but not per person ;)
<Hobbsee> hehe
* ajmitch thinks that telecom would have more success with IP over carrier pigeon than DSL here
<Hobbsee> LOL!
<Hobbsee> go carrier pigeons!
<ajmitch> I'd sure it'd be more reliable
<LaserJock> hmm, I used to raise sheep. I wasn't terribly fond of them.
* tritium_ contemplates channel coding for carrier pidgeon physical layer
<Hobbsee> how about using swallows in the place of carrier pidgeons?
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: european or african?
<Kyral> lol
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> glad someone picked up the reference :P
<LaserJock> and are they carrying cocanuts
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: NI!
<tritium_> you'd get diversity gain by using multiple types of birds ;)
<Kyral> Nif!
<Kyral> NIF!
<Kyral> NIF!!!
<Hobbsee> no, ni!
<Kyral> no its NIF!
* EvilHobbsee DEMANDS a shrubbery!
<LaserJock> Burn Her!
<EvilHobbsee> she's a witch!
<Hobbsee> :P
<LaserJock> she turned me into a newt, and edgy eft in fact ;-)
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: better that than what happened to the black knight you know...
<Hobbsee> "it's only a flesh wound"
<Kyral> I seriously saw some guy doing the Horse thing yesterday
<LaserJock> come back here
<LaserJock> I'll bite your legs off
<Hobbsee> hehe
* Hobbsee tells the killer rabbit to go after Kyral 
<Kyral> Not gonna happen
* LaserJock brings out the Holy Hand Grenade
* Kyral morphs into Mega Man X's Shadow Armor
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> now who can quote the holy scriptures for that?
<Hobbsee> all of it
* Kyral slashes the bunny in half
* Hobbsee watches as the bunny remains savage Kyral 
* Kyral leaps backward
<LaserJock> and the number of the counting shall be three
<LaserJock> no more, no less
<LaserJock> 5 is right out
* Kyral attacks with the Shurikan Buster
* Hobbsee used various parts of monty python as her msn screen name, for a while
<LaserJock> dang it Hobbsee, now I'm going to go have to watch it or do some Python coding or something
<Hobbsee> hehe!
<Kyral> some Monty Python coding!
<Hobbsee> ooh yeah!
<Hobbsee> that'd be fun
<LaserJock> yeah, the docs have little references and quotes
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> i believe they're known as easter eggs, so why not?
<Kyral> Create a variable named "Holy_Hand_Grenade_Of_Antitoch"
<Hobbsee> hehe!
* Hobbsee considers doing that for her computer assignment :P
<Hobbsee> wonder if i'd get marked down for it...
<Kyral> if it EVER is equal to 3, exit :P
<LaserJock> I think they should have a ferocous man eating rabitt for an icon instead of the stupid snakes ;-)
<Hobbsee> Kyral: hehe!
<Gloubiboulga> hello
<Kyral> DUCK!
<Hobbsee> hi Gloubiboulga
* Kyral hits the ground as the HHGOA goes off
<Yagisan> wow. eclipise is slow to load
* Hobbsee demands a shrubbery from Gloubiboulga 
<Kyral> NIF!!!
<Hobbsee> ni!
<Kyral> it!
* Hobbsee gasps, and runs away!
<Kyral> it! it! it!
* Gloubiboulga looks in his dictionary what is a shrubbery :)
<Kyral> IT! IT! IT!!!
* Hobbsee throws large animals down onto Kyral, off the top of her castle
* Hobbsee watches a large cow go flying
* Kyral dodges
<LaserJock> moooooo
* Kyral charges and lets fly with the Shurikan Buster
<LaserJock> ok, ok there must be work that we need to be doing
* Hobbsee throws another cow at LaserJock - shh!
* Kyral leaps and turns it into steak with his Sabre
<ajmitch> LaserJock: yes, the channel has gone downhill somewhat
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> all right, who started the MP talk?  they should be told off...
<Kyral> I think you did
<Hobbsee> oh drat, that was me!
<Hobbsee> okay, they shouldnt be told off then :P
* Kyral picks up Hobbsee and throws her into #gentoo
<Hobbsee> argh!
* Hobbsee bounces around
<seth|lappy> not #gentoo!
<seth|lappy> that's just harsh
<ajmitch> simple solution, just burn her
<Hobbsee> she's a witch!
* Kyral deactivates Shadow Armor and switches to a flame weapon
<Kyral> Someone called for fire?
<Hobbsee> yes, in the fireplace please
<seth|lappy> back to coding for me
<seth|lappy> g'night peoples
<Hobbsee> night seth|lappy
* Kyral charges and lets fly the Fire Wave
* Yagisan wanders in, warms his lunch, then wanders back out again
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: used kdevelop ?
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: a couple of times
<Hobbsee> not a lot
<Unfrgiven> hi all
<ajmitch> hi Unfrgiven
<Unfrgiven> i was thinking today... we really need a good GUI svn client for linux
<ajmitch> like rapidsvn?
<Unfrgiven> something like tortoiseSVN for Natulius would be great
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch: i currently use rapidsvn but its not even close to as good as tortoise
<lifeless> Unfrgiven: dude, good *BZR* client.
<tritium_> agreed, Unfrgiven
<ajmitch> lifeless: definitely needed
<Unfrgiven> lifeless: well svn is more widely used in most open source projects than bzr
<Unfrgiven> perhaps we could write a nautlius plugin that abstracts the underlying vcs system?
<LaserJock> I vote for both svn and bzr GUIs, although I'm not sure what I'd do with them
<Yagisan> Unfrgiven: I tried all that we have for ubuntu. I went back to the command line.
<Unfrgiven> has anyone here used tortoisesvn?
<LaserJock> yes
* ajmitch has
<Unfrgiven> Yagisan: yeah and IMO, CLI is not great when dealing with lotsa files
<LaserJock> cause I couldn't figure out how to use svn from CLI in windows ;-)
<jmg> harden up and use cli
<jmg> tortoise sux
<Kyral> There is a CLI in Winblows?
<jmg> yes
<jmg> cli subversion client
<Unfrgiven> jmg: yeah nice constructive argument there
<jmg> Unfrgiven: if you ever run wininternals you'll see why tortoise blows
<jmg> sysinternals*
<Unfrgiven> jmg: well i havent. what i like about tortoise is the functionality
<jmg> every time you open a file, or browse to a folder, or do anything, it tries to open a .svn directory
<tritium_> LaserJock: did you know Amazon.com sells Ph.D. theses?  I just found mine for $55 :(
<jmg> this applies to every single operation
<LaserJock> tritium_: holy cow, really?
<tritium_> yeah
<Unfrgiven> jmg: so?
<jmg> like loading dlls
<tritium_> LaserJock: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000EWB4YU/103-6409456-1700623?v=glance&n=551440
<jmg> Unfrgiven: so thats fscking retarded
<jmg> as for svn clients
<jmg> use kde
<LaserJock> tritium_: cool
<ajmitch> tritium_: and you'd get nothing, I guess?
<tritium_> LaserJock: I better get any royalties for that being sold...
<tritium_> ajmitch: I'm supposed to
<Unfrgiven> jmg: ok so thats poor implementation. but what does a user care about the implementation? if the application is user friendly and functionally rich, thats good enough for most people.
<Unfrgiven> jmg: "use kde" - another constuctive argument
<jmg> Unfrgiven: the user doesnt use svn. the developer does
<tritium_> LaserJock_away: not so sure it's cool
<jmg> Unfrgiven: kde has nice svn integration to konqueror through kioslaves
<Unfrgiven> a developer that uses tortise, is a tortoise user
<jmg> tritium: buy a copy and see if you get any royalties
<jmg> Unfrgiven: the user cares when it slows wintendo down to a crawl
<tritium_> jmg: it's not worth the money ;)
<jmg> tritium: well, you could buy it from amazon and then sue them for not paying royalties
<tritium_> heh
<Hobbsee_away> ni!
<Hobbsee> er...hello?
<ajmitch> er...hi
<Hobbsee> goody, thought the connection had dropped out
* Yagisan is screwed :(
<ajmitch> Yagisan: how so?
<Yagisan> ajmitch: I need to find external emplyment fast
<ajmitch> ah, business just not going?
<Yagisan> ajmitch: it has been very slow since wife's injury, and I've just had something unexpected come up thats going to cost me more money then I have
<ajmitch> :(
<ajmitch> I hope you can find something fast then
<Yagisan> ajmitch: me too.
* Yagisan is looking for his old resume
<cbx33> hi freeflying
* Yagisan wishes he had a mute button for his wife
<freeflying> cbx33: hey
<cbx33> Yagisan: :p
<cbx33> she bugging you?
<cbx33> how would one go about manualy testing a man page
<dholbach> good morning
<Unfrgiven> dholbach: hey
<dholbach> hey Unfrgiven
<highvoltage> Unfrgiven: does your nick come from a metallica song?
<Unfrgiven> highvoltage: yeah! does yours from a linkin park song? :)
<Unfrgiven> dholbach: how u doin
<highvoltage> Unfrgiven: yes, in fact. from the reanimation CD.
<Unfrgiven> highvoltage: actually high voltage was written before hybrid theory and just remixed on reanimation
<dholbach> Unfrgiven: waking up, but otherwise fine, will do a bunch of CD test installs today
<highvoltage> Unfrgiven: i was listening to the song over and over so that i could sing all the lyrics word for word. and my father walked in and said "You're starting to look like a highvoltage". that was about the same time i signed up for an isp service, and had to enter a name for my e-mail address, so i thought 'highvoltage' would be a logical choice
<Unfrgiven> dholbach: cool
<highvoltage> Unfrgiven: yes, i heard the original highvoltage (which I like more) after i chose the nick
<highvoltage> Unfrgiven: then there's also the version on the DVD, which is quite cool
<Unfrgiven> highvoltage: in my case Unforgiven is my favourite metallica song :)
<Unfrgiven> highvoltage: but my then irc client had a character limit.. so I dropped the 'o'
<highvoltage> aaah
<Yagisan> cbx33: she's upset with me. her parents are ill, and we don't have the money for her to see them
<Unfrgiven> Yagisan: oh dear. that sux man, i hope things work out for you
<Yagisan> I neglected my business to look after her, when she was injured, and as a result we are very low on cash
<Yagisan> so I need to a) get more customers, and b) pick up a second job
* Yagisan wishes apt-get install bourbon worked right now
<Yagisan> mm. kdevelop looks nice
<Yagisan> cool. it finds all the fixmes
* ajmitch returns
<Hobbsee> wb ajmitch!
<jmg> Yagisan: whats your businesS?
<ajmitch> thanks
<\sh> moins
<jmg> moinmoins
<ajmitch> morning \sh
<Hobbsee> hi \sh
<Yagisan> jmg: http://eyagi.bpa.nu/eyagi
<siretart> hey \sh
<ajmitch> hi siretart
<ajmitch> how are you?
<siretart> huhu ajmitch
<siretart> thanks, I'm at work
<siretart> and you?
<ajmitch> my condolences :)
<ajmitch> I'm good thanks
<siretart> :)
<kelmo_lap> hi siretart , ajmitch
<\sh> moins siretart ajmitch :)
<siretart> hey kelmo_lap
* Yagisan is off to woolies. bbl
<siretart> kelmo_lap: do you have time and energy to answer felix latest 'summary'?
<kelmo_lap> siretart, neither really, currently my answer would not be very constructive
<siretart> I'd better take a break from discussing with him. I might loose my self-control the 3rd time :/
<kelmo_lap> indeed
<siretart> ok
<kelmo_lap> i don't want to go there tonight . . .
<siretart> I'll see if I can answer perhaps at the week end or so
<kelmo_lap> he just repeats the same stuff over and over
<kelmo_lap> bringing up good points here and there
<kelmo_lap> adding a bit of crap and subjective opinion in the mix
<siretart> yes
<Maxiii> www.naughty-xxx-porn-girls.com
<jmg> www.piss-the-fuck-off-spammer.com
<cbx33> heheh
<Hobbsee> hehe
<zakame> hi Efts!
<dholbach> hehe :-)))
<dholbach> hi zakame
<zakame> hi dholbach ! =)
<zakame> is the archive hold for universe uploads still up?
<dholbach> no, slomo just did an upload, so I'd rather think not
<slomo_> zakame: you could upload all the time... the uploaded sources just didn't went into the archive but were queued somewhere
<zakame> ah
<kelmo_lap> siretart, ok, i lied
<kelmo_lap> siretart, i could not let that rant go unanswered ; )
<siretart> kelmo_lap: :)
<Yagisan> re
<ajmitch> hi Yagisan
<Yagisan> evening ajmitch
<Amaranth> E: alacarte: bad-version-number 0.9-0ubuntu1~testing
<Amaranth> i thought that was allowed now
<Amaranth> linda doesn't complain about it, lintian does
<azeem> at least Debian's archive tools don't support it yet, dunno about Launchpad
<Amaranth> it's used for backports
<azeem> if it is in use already, lintian is probably outdated
<azeem> maybe linda never had a check for that
<zul> heylo
<Kyral> hmm
<Kyral> if I make a Kernel Source pack with the Beyond patchset....would I submit it to MOTU?
* Hobbsee pokes Kyral 
<Kyral> hmm?
<Yagisan> Kyral: we can't
<Kyral> say what?
<Kyral> why not?
<Yagisan> Kyral: I already asked about doing universer kernels
<Kyral> meh
<Kyral> thats one thing I like about Arch
<Yagisan> Kyral: it was strongly discouraged by core
<Kyral> they have patched Kernels in their repos....
<Kyral> and the Beyond kernel is very very nice
<Yagisan> Kyral: because the users had issues with hoary (was that le last one with a universe kernel ?)
<Kyral> I dunno
<Yagisan> Kyral: I have my own patched kernels to. I wish I could integrate l-r-m with them though
<Kyral> LRM....jeez thats a waste of a package...
<Kyral> I like what Arch does with respect to the NVidia drivers
<Kyral> They don't compile them for every kernel
<Yagisan> Kyral: IIRC you said, rebuilds at start if needed
<Kyral> Yah
<Kyral> quite effective if you ask me
<Kyral> best part is that it works even if you custom compile
<Yagisan> Kyral: I like that idea too, but I don't want gcc on my "secure" boxes
<Kyral> "Secure"?
<MrFaber> hi all again :)
<Kyral> You mean like servers?
<Kyral> Ack!
<Kyral> I have a meeting at 10, and I haven't gotten breakfast yet!!
<MrFaber> When loop-aes-source gets fixed?
<Yagisan> Kyral: servers, firewalls, hardened desktops
<MrFaber> Dapper should has been release already without the new release termin and the bug is reported since a long, long time
<Yagisan> MrFaber: why do you need that ?
<MrFaber> Not this discussion again please :)
<MrFaber> For encryption
<Yagisan> MrFaber: IIRC it was a kernel patch wasn't it ?
<Kyral> It allows use of the AES algorithm for encrypted loop devices
<Kyral> or encrypted partions
<MrFaber> I always need the Debian sid loop-aes-source package in dapper
<MrFaber> Yagisan: it is a module
<Kyral> I thought it was part of the Kernel....
<Yagisan> yes, but I use dmcrypt for that
<MrFaber> Yagisan: and could be created with the module-assistant, at least in Breezy
<Yagisan> MrFaber: I thought it was depreciated in favour of dmcrypt
<Kyral> Its a module option...at least in 2.6.16
<Gunooby> Hi all
<MrFaber> Yagisan: but the package is in Dapper universe
<Kyral> zcat /proc/config.gz | grep AES
<MrFaber> Yagisan: And I like it more then dm-crypt
<Gunooby> I would like to test a latest upstream release package!
<Kyral> anyway...lunch
<Gunooby> Can some one tell me the procedure...
<MrFaber> And the fix is easy if someone could upload the new minor version
<Yagisan> MrFaber: yeah, we have a lot of patches in universe that we can't use
<MrFaber> Or what is with packages like Krusader what wasn't updated after Breezy, but this isn't that problem :(
<Yagisan> Gunooby: usually they have instructions. Make a system backup in case it goes horribly wrong.
<MrFaber> I need my loop-aes and to use a debian sid package isn't that solution for a stable release
<Yagisan> MrFaber: well, have you submittted an UVF exception request
<MrFaber> a bug report is there
<MrFaber> But I have no clue how
<Gunooby> Yagisan: Tested on my PC! Would like to test it on others for deps etc
<MrFaber> It is hard enough in launchpad to find a bug imho
<Yagisan> MrFaber: I agree.
<MrFaber> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/loop-aes-source/+bug/30230
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 30230 in loop-aes-source "loop-aes module can't be created in Dapper Drake" [Normal,Unconfirmed] 
<MrFaber> thats the bug
<MrFaber> And I have spoken with the debian maintainer but he can't do anything since it works in newest releases
<zul> MrFaber: I might have a look at it tonight, please add me to the bug.
<Yagisan> MrFaber: here we go. UVF exception process https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/UVFStatus
<MrFaber> zul: how?
<MrFaber> thx
<Yagisan> MrFaber: should be approved, as you said it fixes the bug (but, not being a MOTU, I can't guarantee that)
<MrFaber> zul which mail?
<MrFaber> zul "Subscribe someone else to the bug report"?
<MrFaber> Yagisan: diffstat of the upstream tarballs don't know how to do it :)
<zul> MrFaber: zulcss@gmail.com
<MrFaber> thx, I am going to add you
<MrFaber> zul: no error so it should have worked but I see no result :)
<zul> ok..
<G0SUB_> whis are your favourite options for creating a source package with dpkg-buildpackage?
<G0SUB_> which
<Hobbsee> G0SUB_: dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa -rfakeroot -kyourkeyhere
<G0SUB_> hmm, ok
<Hobbsee> -S -sa is the bit needed for the sources
<G0SUB_> Hobbsee: but for some strange reasons, it's not generating the orig.tar.gz & the diff.gz
* StevenK likes pbuilder for this reason.
<Hobbsee> G0SUB_: is the folder named sourcename-version?
<G0SUB_> yes
<StevenK> It drops a _source.changes and related files in .. which I can upload right after testing.
<Hobbsee> i thought you had to create the .orig.tar.gz yourself...
<Hobbsee> StevenK: that's true
<G0SUB_> Hobbsee: nope
* Hobbsee jumps on StevenK before she is jumped on
* Mithrandir tickles Hobbsee before he's poked in the ribs.
* Hobbsee pokes Mithrandir in the ribs doubly hard :P
<Mithrandir> ouch
<Hobbsee> :P
* StevenK pushes Hobbsee off.
* Hobbsee falls to the floor.  meany
<StevenK> Well, you didn't have to jump on me elbows first.
<Yagisan> MrFaber: after you make the patch, run diffstat patch
<MrFaber> Yagisan: I haven't run any patch I just have used debian sid package
<MrFaber> Yagisan: I am happy that I can create debian packages from sources but that is all :)
<Yagisan> MrFaber: you need to debdiff the ubuntu & debian packages
<MrFaber> And that not always
<MrFaber> ok, I am going to try it
* Yagisan thinks timidity needs a better patchset
<MrFaber> Yagisan: is there any howto for that
<MrFaber> no debdiff result in wiki.ubuntu.com
<MrFaber> I have it an run it but gives me no real interesting result :)
<Yagisan> MrFaber: I'd run it like this. debdiff oldfoo.dsc newfoo.dsc > newfoo.debdiff && diffstat newfoo.debdiff > newfoo.diffstat
<MrFaber> how I got this dsc file :)
<Yagisan> MrFaber: apt-get source foo
<MrFaber> ah ok
* Hobbsee enjoys the dapper+1 name.  who else thought of monty python, at the first mention of a newt?
* Yagisan installs a decent patchset for timidity.
<zul> MrFaber: which bug is this again?
<zul> for the loop-aes
<MrFaber> zul yes
* Yagisan does a little dance of joy.
<Gloubiboulga> could anyone review gnome-translate: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2266 ?
<Gloubiboulga> ++
<ivoks> dholbach: lol, you nailed brltty :)
<dholbach> nailed? :)
<ivoks> dholbach: but, you have a bug
<ivoks> it will not stop allready running brltty
<dholbach> i had to be quick about it... so it didn't delay beta release
<ivoks> hehe
<dholbach> I can't start killing random processes in a postinst :)
<ivoks> i have a diff on init.d/brltty, if you are interested :)
<dholbach> I'm not sure we'll add that - I'd rather prefer to fix it than kill it/stop it
<ivoks> your upload obsolets my also_quick_and_dirty_fix
<dholbach> this was just a quick fix for beta, ... as I said
<ivoks> i had exit 0 in start function :)
<dholbach> there's a fix in Debian to make it use udev
<ivoks> that's great
<dholbach> which might help too
<dholbach> so it doesn't try to detect madly (that's where it lost memory on the way)
<dholbach> at least that's as much as I gathered from the discussions
<ivoks> anyway... nice that brltty doesn't start by default
<ivoks> it's not a program 99% of ubuntu users need, but i agree we have to make it work for other 1%
<dholbach> yeah
* dholbach hugs ivoks
<ivoks> ok, stop it..
<ivoks> what will my g/f say :)
<joelbryan> hello, what program is that? ivoks
<ivoks> joelbryan: brltty
<ivoks> time to go home, finally
<ivoks> dholbach: do you have any info will now, after RC, archive managers sync some packages from debian?
<ivoks> dholbach: i would like to have libetpan asap, since i have to rebuild 2 apps with it
<joelbryan> how do I make a package?, I'm trying to create a deb for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuLiveChatSupport
<dholbach> ivoks: you subscribed them to the bugs?
<ivoks> yes
<ivoks> but i saw i'm not the only one pending...
<ivoks> i guess they didn't want to change anything beefore RC
<ivoks> joelbryan: i would love to help you, but i'm on the edge... didn't eat anything today, but smoked half a pack of cigaretts :/
<ivoks> so, i'll leave now :)
<joelbryan> hehe, me too, 1/2 red
<ivoks> bye all
<joelbryan> thanks ivoks :-)
<sivang> joelbryan: is it a python app?
<sivang> joelbryan: do you try to push it into dapper btw?
<joelbryan> sivang: yes, mark changed it's priority to high
<joelbryan> sivang: nope, it's C and perl
<sivang> joelbryan: ah, I see. does it fire up xchat or something at the right channel?
<joelbryan> sivang: it use gaim's irc
<sivang> joelbryan: nice. already stable and ready for main then?
<sivang> (I might try o help you pull up a package, cdbs can be much help if you used standrad gnu autofoo tools)
<joelbryan> yep, but still have to find the right regular expression on capturing NOTICE sent by nickserv
<joelbryan> checking nick's availability only works when a user is currently using the nick.
<joelbryan> I need that ultimate regex to solve the problem.
<sivang> I'd say you need to query freenode's nick somehow
<sivang> rather
<sivang> since regex will be of no help if the user is not logged in under the nick
<sivang> at least, for registered uses, that is
<joelbryan> sivang: I use standard autotools, everything is basic, including perl's modules, which only have IO::Socket, not Net::IRC
<sivang> joelbryan: those are standard perl modules?
* sivang doesn't have a clue about perl :-)
<joelbryan> sivang: yes, currently it only catch 320, which is generated if a user is only online.
<joelbryan> else if not, it would print that the nick is available
<joelbryan> sivang: the work would be 50% more easier if Net::IRC is included.
<joelbryan> Net::IRC isn't standard in perl.
<joelbryan> it uses bare IO::Socket, and connets through tcp, which is very hackish
<sivang> joelbryan: to query freenode's db?
<joelbryan> sivang: how can you make a certain universe package to be included in main. say example, libnet-irc-perl
<joelbryan> sivang: yes, I use IO::Socket, to query freenode, whew! and it's very low level!!
<sivang> joelbryan: well, I'm afraid it's too late now, as we're already an UVF/FF for ages. but you could have this included in universe for wide testing and bug fixing and try to push it into dapper+1. I am also working on a goal, that will not get included into main at this stage. (HomeUserBackup)
<sivang> joelbryan: however, it might be worthwhile to ask for a big expection, if this is soemthign very small, very stable and easy to fix if things go rough. dunno
<joelbryan> sivang: it's really easy to fix, with the correct regex.
<sivang> joelbryan: try to ask on u-devel, AFAICT this is the right place to ask about this.
<sivang> joelbryan: I'll ping you when I'll have time to help, possibly tomorrow
<joelbryan> thanks
<sivang> np :)
<joelbryan> Hello Seveas!
<Seveas> hi joelbryan
<joelbryan> Seveas: I made some changes in ULCS,
<Seveas> ah
<Seveas> joelbryan, btw: I told sabdfl about ulcs and he thinks it's a killer feature for edgy 
<joelbryan> Seveas: wow, he emailed me
<joelbryan> Seveas: I got an automated registration system
<Seveas> cool
<hmrocha> hello
<Seveas> I'll have a look at the code soon
<hmrocha> how is responsible for packaging the nfs utilities?
<hmrocha> i think they have a problem
<hmrocha> i'm using 5.10 and i get "nfs warning: mount version older than kernel"
<hmrocha> i think this shouldn't happen
<Seveas> hmrocha, make sure your mount, nfs-client and nfs-kernel-server are up to date
<hmrocha> i'm not using nfs-kernel-server because the server is a centos 4.3
<hmrocha> 5.10 is only the client
<hmrocha> and i'm using autofs
<hmrocha> and i have all packages updated
<joelbryan> Seveas: btw, when did you told sabdfl about it?
<Seveas> then it's not unusual to get this, if nothing is failing you can ignore it
<Seveas> joelbryan, CC meeting 2 weeks ago
<hmrocha> but something is failing, and i don't know if it's the ubuntu client or the centos server
<hmrocha> i get "nfs: server foobar not responding, still trying", on the client
<hmrocha> but it appears that everything is working perfectly on the server
<spacey> hmrocha: check if the client tries to mount the right server address/path
<hmrocha> yes it does
<spacey> i had the same problem today
<hmrocha> it mounts and it works, but its very, very very slow
<spacey> which i solved by making the client mount nfs with tcp instead of udp
<spacey> hmrocha: portmap problem?
<spacey> in our case it didn't work at all
<bddebian> Heya gang
<hmrocha> spacey: i hope not, it's running, but i'll try restarting it
<spacey> hmrocha: in my case we use ltsp 4.1 not ubuntu ltsp btw
<hmrocha> ltsp?
<hmrocha> what's that?
<spacey> ah
<spacey> nevermind ;p
<spacey> thin client
<bddebian> Linux Terminal Server Project iirc
<spacey> which mounts root nfs file system
<spacey> ;p
<hmrocha> that's not what we use here
<spacey> ah yeah i misunderstood
<spacey> im to much into thin clientness ;p
<spacey> atm :)
<hmrocha> we use a proprietary system to upload linux/windows to the students computers
<hmrocha> a student turns on a computer and is asked if he wants linux/windows
<hmrocha> he chooses ubuntu linux and then the linux partition's content is compared to the cache partition
<hmrocha> the cache partition uses a proprietary filesystem that used unpartitioned disk space
<hmrocha> if the content is the same, it just boots
<hmrocha> if it isn't it synchronizes the content of the cache partition with the linux partition and then boots
<hmrocha> the home partition of the ubuntu linux that is uploaded to the computer is obviously nfs mounted so that the students can have theirs files in all computers they logon
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<hmrocha> it's something more advanced than thin clients
<ogra> its thick client network booting with a networked grub ;)
<hmrocha> ogra: yes, something like that but much more advanced :D
<ogra> i was pondering to add a network grub setup to our ltsp
<hmrocha> we don't use network grub
<ogra> it does the same just not with gui like the proprietary solutions i know
<hmrocha> neither thin clients, since all processing is done in the clients
<ogra> yes, thats a so called thick client ;)
<LaserJock> hi bddebian
<webwolf_27> not much going on here
<dholbach> bye guys - happy ubuntu beta partying!
<jpatrick> where's that beer?
<dholbach> Europe/Berlin :)
<sladen> Europe/Barcelona anyone?
<lucas> Europe/France/Grenoble anyone ? :-)
<jpatrick> sladen: me
<LaserJock> hmm, how about Reno, NV, USA?
<hub> anything in Ottawa?
<zul> dont think so
<LaserJock> yeah, North America needs some more coverage, these Europeans get to have all the fun ;-)
<ogra> come over :)
<LaserJock> hmm, raphink almost had me convinced to go over there, but I just can't afford it
<jpatrick> LaserJock: I can't afford anything
<LaserJock> I'd like to go to one of the dev conferences too, but the chances of it coming somewhere close are pretty slim
<zul> montreal was pretty close to me at least ;)
<LaserJock> it was on the same continent at least for me
<LaserJock> but I didn't make it
<jpatrick> sladen: still around?
<hub> zul: you went to UBZ?
<jpatrick> oh, too late
<webwolf_27> nuernberg germany
<zul> hub: yep...just for the first day though i had tickets to the sens game the next day
<hub> zul: we probably met then. I was there
<hub> I was in Mtl at that time
<zul> hub: could be...i might not remember because I met alot of people ;)
<hub> yeah
<hyakuhei> wb TheMuso
<cbx33> i i know a bug isnt a bug can someone close the bug report?
<carthik> cbx33, which one?
<cbx33> 23647
<carthik> cbx33, you can close it too, click on the link that is the package description in the bug report...
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> change to rejected?
<FunnyLookinHat> When I installed network-manager-gnome and it's dependencies and rebooted with the new ubuntu beta, it gave me an error when I logged in saying network-manager was missing necesary resources or something like that.  this a known bug?
<cbx33> carthik, there's no closed....do i choose rejected?
<carthik> cbx33, yes, but maybe the reporter thinks it is a bug that needs fixing. just leave a message asking the reporter to reopen it stating the case if required.
<FunnyLookinHat> No ideas?
#ubuntu-motu 2006-04-26
<LaserJock> everybody must be busily installing the Dapper beta
<Kyral> No I was sitting in a computer lab waiting for a script to run that ran an experiment for me
<crimsun> I'm valgrinding
<crimsun> I do not recommend interstate driving on no sleep, btw.
<Se7h> rofl crimsun
<Se7h> hi all btw
<LaserJock> I was trying to figure out how to distil paint thinner ;-)
<LaserJock> and waiting until I can get home and put my box back together, so I can install Beta
<FunnyLookinHat> Anyone confirm a package issue with network-manager-gnome on ubuntu beta?
<FunnyLookinHat> The error dialog says "The NetworkManager applet could not find some required resources.  It cannot continue."
<FunnyLookinHat> and console returned a ton of identical lines saying
<FunnyLookinHat> (nm-applet:5689): GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: g_object_unref: assertion `G_IS_OBJECT (object)' failed
<crimsun> might actually be better addressed in the forum/bug tracker
<FunnyLookinHat> Heh, I'm hesitant to add another bug to the already 18 present
<FunnyLookinHat> !bug
<Se7h> congrats on the new update icon :> its cute
* Hobbsee waves to the room
<FunnyLookinHat> Ok, bug reported for network-manager-gnome not starting up.
<crimsun> 'morning, Hobbsee
<ajmitch> hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> :)
<crimsun> &ajmitch
<ajmitch> hello crimsun
<ajmitch> how are you?
<crimsun> not bad, yourself?
<ajmitch> alright :)
<crimsun> great :)
* ajmitch feels the floor vibrating again
<ajmitch> and the walls resonating nicely
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> always fun
<ajmitch> I wish they'd stop digging up the road
<ajmitch> for awhile this morning we had no water pressure either
<ajmitch> so what are people up to today? :)
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: banning bots :P
<ajmitch> yay
<ajmitch> how exciting
<Hobbsee> hehe
<FunnyLookinHat> reporting network-manager bugs  ^_^;;
<LaserJock> hi ajmitch and Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey LaserJock
<ajmitch> hello LaserJock
<ajmitch> how's it going?
<LaserJock> oh alright
<LaserJock> I spent the day trying to figure out how to distill paint thinner
<crimsun> successful?
<LaserJock> I think so
<crimsun> well, that beats the pants off my valgrinding :)
<LaserJock> heh, I don't know
<LaserJock> I still have to pass it by my boss, we are supposed to avoid stills if we can
<ajmitch> heh
<LaserJock> too many fires
<ajmitch> in case you get caught distilling other liquids? :)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<LaserJock> no,  although we have to have paperwork if we by absolute ethanol
<LaserJock> s/by/buy/
<Hobbsee> hehehe
<LaserJock> I was able to by good quality methanol and acetone, but I have to do my own water and toluene
<LaserJock> darn it, why can't I spell buy today
<crimsun> better than misplacing that 'u' into 'my'
<crimsun> by and muy
<crimsun> I've had a few days like that
<zul> hey
<ajmitch> hi zul
<zul> hey ajmitch
<LaserJock> hi zul and hub
<bddebian> Heya gang
<crimsun> uh oh, the deity's here
<bddebian> :'-(
<LaserJock> hi bddebian
* LaserJock refuses to worship bddebian tonight ;-)
<bddebian> I DON'T WANT ANYONE TO WORSHIP ME!!
<bddebian> Hi LaserJock
<crimsun> just because he's a deity doesn't at all imply any sort of worship
<bddebian> crimsun: Why do you taunt me man :-(
<Hobbsee> hi bddebian
<crimsun> taunt? pssht.
<bddebian> Hi Hobbsee
<ajmitch> hello bddebian
* Hobbsee considers, and shuts up :P
<crimsun> it's your "fault" you built up all that karma ;)
<bddebian> Hiya ajmitch
<ajmitch> bddebian: how's it going?
<bddebian> How much do I have now?
<ajmitch> probably about 10x as much as the rest of us put together
<bddebian> ajmitch: Lousy, I ache all over. :-)  You?
<ajmitch> I'm alright :)
<ajmitch> a bit hungry
* bddebian hands ajmitch some vegemite ;-P
<ajmitch> thanks
* ajmitch could go & have a vegemite sandwich now
<bddebian> Are we OK for uploads right now?
<Kyral> Hey
<ajmitch> bddebian: yep, beta is out
<bddebian> Hyea Kyral
<bddebian> ajmitch: Cool thanks.  Does that mean syncs are gonna start too?
<ajmitch> bddebian: yeah
<zul> does this also mean that if there is a bug with new version we can actually do something with it?
<ajmitch> zul: you mean UVF exceptions?
<zul> yeah..
<zul> like 4394
<ajmitch> zul: you mean a merge bug that probably should have been closed?
<zul> yeah
<ajmitch> it's not an approved UVF exception
<zul> ok...just making sure...night night
<LaserJock> darn it, is it common for the pins for the on-off switch on the front of a case to not fit on the MB
<Kyral> no....
<Lathiat> yeh
<Lathiat> i've only ever had problems with the power led
<Lathiat> which can be 3 or 2 pin
<LaserJock> well, on my case they are all hooked together
<LaserJock> in one row
<LaserJock> but on the MB they are in two rows
<LaserJock> dang it, I don't want to ditch this case
<LaserJock> grrr
<bddebian> LaserJock: ?
<LaserJock> bddebian: I was going to switch MBs but the pins on my case (LED and power switch) don't match my MB
<LaserJock> I really like this case though
<bddebian> So fix it :)
<LaserJock> bddebian: can't I give it to you to fix ;-)
<bddebian> Sure3
<bddebian> -3
<LaserJock> hmm, anybody know how to get the wires out of the black pins
<bddebian> There is usually a small flat clip that you have to pull out a little with like a needle or a small knife blade, then yank the wire straight out
<LaserJock> bddebian: k, thanks
<bddebian> NP
<bddebian> Now, bow to me.. ;-P
* LaserJock falls to his knees and bows to the almighty bddebian 
<bddebian> Bah :-)
<bddebian> Gnight folks, good luck LaserJock :-)
<dholbach> HAPPY HUG DAY
<chillywilly> :-o
<Yagisan> G'day all
<freeflying> dholbach: ping
<dholbach> hey freeflying
<freeflying> dholbach: we have comment on bug 36168
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 36168 in cmake "need new release for build kde4 package " [Normal,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/36168
<freeflying> dholbach: will you have a look , and cmake 2.4.0 is out
<dholbach> freeflying: i just started reading the 1500 mails I got since yesterday
<freeflying> dholbach: unfotuenately , author hasn't provide the Changelog
<dholbach> freeflying: i'm more concerend about the packages build-depending on it
<freeflying> dholbach: all kde4 stuff
<dholbach> which packages in Ubuntu?
<dholbach> I know that we took a look at one tiny change in imake - and all the */X11R6/* directories changed
<freeflying> dholbach: no kde4 package in ubuntu now
<dholbach> the change would have been nice to have, but we decided two months ago, that it's too risky
<dholbach> freeflying: so you're saying no package build-depends on it?
<freeflying> dholbach: just now
<freeflying> dholbach: if we prepare on kde4 , then we need it
<dholbach> i just don't see why we need it in dapper now
<dholbach> it's a 100000 line changes
<freeflying> we just wanna have it , so anyone wanna build kde4 can use it smoothly
<dholbach> can you follow up with that information on the bug?
<dholbach> I'd like to talk to siretart and slomo about it
<dholbach> and Riddell maybe too
<siretart> morning
<freeflying> dholbach: thx
<dholbach> hey siretart - happy hug day
<siretart> dholbach: and I'm currently at work. But I will join you all this afternoon!
<siretart> freeflying: please compile a list of reverse build dependencies of cmake, and submit that to the malone bug. I asked you for that yesterday
<dholbach> siretart: take your time
<siretart> freeflying: you can use grep-dctrl for that
<freeflying> siretart: got it
<Tm_T> ha
<Tm_T> dholbach: yeah, cmake is not basic users need, but (wannabe)devels like me ;)
<Tm_T> dholbach: so it would keep powerusers in Ubuntu
<dholbach> if you build stuff for edgy with it, it makes sense to have it in edgy
<Tm_T> dholbach: that is the plan
<dholbach> i'm just slightly concerned to get a 100000 line change in
<dholbach> Tm_T: freeflying wants to have it in now
<Tm_T> dholbach: I would have it too
<dholbach> 5 weeks before release
<freeflying> dholbach: not onle me , Riddell also wanna
<Tm_T> dholbach: true, bad time, but we need it for summer
<Tm_T> dholbach: and over summer
<dholbach> it'll be in edgy for sure
<Tm_T> because then will happen a lot work around KDE4 I hope
<Tm_T> anyway, I can always compile cmake myself
<Tm_T> ...actually I will do it now, will help my next weeks tasks a lot ->
<dholbach> I'm not being a killjoy for the sake of it - I want to have more facts at hand to take this decision
<Tm_T> dholbach: true, and I have no idea what facts you need =)
<Tm_T> dholbach: maybe we wait for edgy :)
<dholbach> anything that makes me feel good and forget that it's 100 000 lines of changes in a key part of infrastructure will do :)
<Tm_T> haha
<siretart> it isn't that hard to setup local repos after all. We are really close to release now and have to make sure that we don't break anything
<Tm_T> siretart: true
<Tm_T> so, I'd say edgy if nothing new and revolutionary happens
<siretart> I also setup a local repo for xen stuff in dapper
<siretart> but I'm not going to upload it to dapper. even given that it works fine for me [tm] 
<Tm_T> haha
<siretart> ?
<Tm_T> siretart: exactly, because "works fine for me" doesn't quarantee anything :)
<siretart> right
<phanatic> mornin
<phanatic> hi raphink
<raphink> hi phanatic
<zakame> hi all
<phanatic> hey zakame
<zakame> hi phanatic
<CraiZE> hey
<CraiZE> anyone awake?
<CraiZE> hi _jason
<_jason> CraiZE: hey :)
<CraiZE> hey hey ;)
<CraiZE> uhm say
<CraiZE> i wrote an application the other day for ubuntu
<CraiZE> how do you get someone to review it
<CraiZE> to go into the repo ?
<_jason> I'm trying to learn how to properly package something for motu, I came across gTVlistings at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Candidates which doesn't seem to have any comments.  Can I just give it a try and put it up on REVU?
<_jason> CraiZE: note sure, I'm quite new to motu as well as you can see
<CraiZE> yeah i noticed
<Gloubiboulga> CraiZE, _jason, if you think that the packages are ready to be reviewed, upload them on REVU
<CraiZE> i never made a package
<CraiZE> its python scripts :)
<Gloubiboulga> CraiZE, python scripts can be packaged as well ;)
<_jason> I haven't actually started making the package, but I am about to.  Just wondering if I should do anything beforehand (other than read the docs and learn the process)?
<CraiZE> ah okay ;)
<phanatic> _jason: i think that will be enough
<Gloubiboulga> _jason, build your package if you've read the doc :)
<Gloubiboulga> hi phanatic
<phanatic> hey Gloubiboulga :)
<_jason> phanatic, Gloubiboulga: cool, thanks
<zul> heylo
* dholbach hugs tseng
* tseng hugs dholbach 
<dholbach> you know how to talk to people :-p
* Hobbsee feels sad that she doesnt get hugged
* tseng hugs Hobbsee 
<tseng> there you go.
<Hobbsee> :)
* dholbach hugs Hobbsee as well
<Hobbsee> :D
<Hobbsee> hugged twice - yay!
<tseng> dholbach: mdz is better at cluing people, i can be too mean sometimes
<zul> tseng: you dont say ;)
<tseng> not that some people dont deseve it :)
* Mithrandir hugs everybody
* tseng hugs Mithrandir 
<tseng> good morning
<chillywilly> ello mates
<Mithrandir> actually almost end of day here, but yeah.
* Hobbsee waves to Mithrandir 
<Mithrandir> how's .au today?
<Hobbsee> it got taken over by sheep.
<Mithrandir> I thought they were supposed to be on the other (relativetly) nearby island?
<Hobbsee> the nearby island built catapults, and flung them over here
* Hobbsee blames ajmitch 
<chillywilly> ajmitchie rules
<Hobbsee> :P
* Hobbsee blames chillywilly then
<nomed> ogra: have you already an idea how what you'll use to code that "branding gui tool" ?
<ogra> nomed, not beyond it being python and GTK ... and probably a split front/backend to make Riddell happy ;)
<ogra> hmm, probably doesnt make sense ...
<ogra> since it will use gdm and gconf ...
<Riddell> what tool is this?
<ogra> feel free  to add suggestions to my mail :)
<ogra> Riddell, see my RFC mail to -devel
<ogra> but we'd have to develop it together if it should be cross desktop
<nomed> ogra: i was thinking on somthing similar ... i'll help as soon i get how i can do that :)
<ogra> its only the draft of a spec yet ... nothing concrete ... feel free to flech it out more :)
<Riddell> sounds a bit like KDE's theme tool
<ogra> that grabs system settings and creates an artwork .deb ?
<dholbach> ogra: some of the artwork stuff needs a proper buildsystem
<dholbach> ogra: like installations of icons, translations etc - dunno if it's that easy
<ogra> dholbach, to create a set of gconf keys ?
<ogra> i only talk about branding ... i.e. themes that exist and can just be called
<dholbach> ahhhh right
<dholbach> you said something about "creates a package"
<dholbach> that's why I wondered
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Gloubiboulga> hello bddebian
<Hobbsee> hi bddebian
<sladen> oh, do you have Nathalie's details anyway?
<sladen> bah.  my windows are the wrong numbers
<bddebian> Heya Gloubiboulga, Hobbsee, sladen
<zul> i guess its time to fix some universe bugs
<bddebian> Yeah, I gotta get back to work.  I can't let you catch my karma.. ;-P
<zul> oh i think i can...eventually
<LaserJock> hi bddebian
<LaserJock> heh, I'm dist-upgrading and I have 119 packages to upgrade and will save 389K
<bddebian> yeah
<LaserJock> usually I use more disk space upgrading not less ;-)
<LaserJock> bddebian: btw, thanks for that tip on getting those wires out
<bddebian> It worked?
<LaserJock> yep
<bddebian> Sweet
<LaserJock> I moved the power switch, HD led, and power led pins from my old case over
<LaserJock> the HD doesn't seem to work but the power works fine
<LaserJock> HD led that is
<zul> bddebian: thats one closed im catching up ;)
<bddebian> Doh
<bddebian> bbias
<CraiZE> anyone awake? :)
<hub> awake
<bddebian> Nope
<CraiZE> well
<bddebian> <-- Not enough coffee yet
<CraiZE> i wrote a program i would like someone to package for me :)
<LaserJock> bddebian: it is even earlier here ;-)
<CraiZE> and i rather spend time developing, then learning how to package
<CraiZE> so anyone intressted in doing that "dirty" job for me? :)
<bddebian> LaserJock: I don't do mornings well :-)
<LaserJock> bddebian: me neither but the wife had a 7:30 thing today
<LaserJock> CraiZE: what kind of app is it?
<CraiZE> its a mount tool
<CraiZE> like daemon-tools in windows
<CraiZE> tray icon to mount / unmount
<CraiZE> or an UI
<CraiZE> its written in pyGTK
<CraiZE> i can send you the current version if you want ?
<LaserJock> CraiZE: our current procedure is to put packages on a candidate list
<CraiZE> aha
<CraiZE> well its not a package
<CraiZE> its a .tar.gz :P
<CraiZE> i wanted some1 to package it
<CraiZE> so i can put it on the candidate list
<LaserJock> CraiZE: yeah, that is what I meant. Apps people want packaged. it is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Candidates
<CraiZE> all this bureaucracy for just releasing software to help people is truly annoying (to me atleast)
<azeem> CraiZE: what does it do differently to the drivemount applet?
<CraiZE> drivemount applet?
<CraiZE> i dont know the drivemount applet
<azeem> it's in gnome-applest
<azeem> eh -applets
<CraiZE> lemme look
<LaserJock> CraiZE: there really isn't much of any bureaucracy in Ubuntu, somebody just has to do it
<CraiZE> there is no drivemount applet
<CraiZE> on my repos
<CraiZE> you mean Disk Mounter?
<CraiZE> well
<CraiZE> http://craize.x-ware.org/?path=isomount/
<CraiZE> you can try it out
<CraiZE> its like daemon-tools, it has a tray icon, or a stand alone GUI
<CraiZE> you can mount / unmount (it does mount -o loop) anything that your system supports
<CraiZE> like .ISO / .NRG, or entire filesystems using mount
<CraiZE> it gives you easy access to quickly mount or unmount different kinds of filesystems, in a user friendly way
<azeem> CraiZE: how does it cope with stuff which is not in fstab?
<azeem> Does it use gksudo? Or is it suid?
<CraiZE> it uses gksudo, so it doesnt care about fstab
<CraiZE> azeem, are you intressted in making a package out of it?
<azeem> I probably wouldn't use it myself
<azeem> and I got enough packages already :-/
<azeem> (and I can't upload to Ubuntu anyway)
<CraiZE> then allow me to wonder, why you asking all these questions?
<CraiZE> you are asking*
<azeem> because I was curious
<CraiZE> ah okay ;)
<CraiZE> hrm
<LaserJock> CraiZE: but azeem can be very helpful :-)
<CraiZE> oh i don't doubt that
<bddebian> azeem: Well become an MOTU then ;-)
<azeem> personally, I think it would be nicer if you could just browse into an .ISO if you double-click on an icon in nautilus
<CraiZE> i just didn't want to go through the process of having to learn stuff
<LaserJock> bddebian: he did become a member
<CraiZE> azeem, its in beta stages
<CraiZE> so yes, i am thinking of doing that also
<bddebian> LaserJock: Really?
<bddebian> azeem: You have joined The Dark Side? :-)
<LaserJock> CraiZE: well, I think the point is that we would like to see if there is already an app that has the same functionality
<CraiZE> well there is not
<CraiZE> i searched for it, and never found it
<CraiZE> but i would greatly appreciate it if you tried it the app out, and see if you see a similarity with another app ;)
<LaserJock> well, in gnome the drive mount applet seems close
<CraiZE> no
<LaserJock> but that is only for gnome, and maybe xfce
<CraiZE> i have ~1TB of network drives mount
<CraiZE> and that clutters an entire bar
<CraiZE> which is using /etc/fstab
<CraiZE> so its really different
<CraiZE> here you can browse to the iso you want to mount
<CraiZE> or FS
<CraiZE> and it mounts, within 2 clicks or 3 ;)
<CraiZE> and unmount with 2 clicks ;)
<CraiZE> i will have to look how to get support from nautilus
<CraiZE> so nautilus tells my code the entire path / file
<CraiZE> so i can mount it :)
<LaserJock> CraiZE: ok, well I'd put it on that wiki page I gave you. Dapper is basically closed to new packages at this point but the next release will open up after 6.06 is released and it could be included then.
<CraiZE> ok
<CraiZE> well i will further enhance it
<LaserJock> yeah, that would be cool
<CraiZE> i will do the double click support ;)
<LaserJock> sure, that would be nice
<CraiZE> i know most of you dont care about such apps, but windows users do :P
<LaserJock> heah, I would probably like it
<jpatrick> sladen: ping
<CraiZE> yay
<CraiZE> i actually made it double clickable
<CraiZE> ;D
<LaserJock> cool
<CraiZE> yup
<CraiZE> think i will make a bash script, so its easier to make it work :)
<LaserJock> bmonty!
<bmonty> hey LaserJock
<CraiZE> LaserJock, http://craize.x-ware.org/index.php?path=mountool/
<CraiZE> its the new version
<LaserJock> bmonty: how's it going?
<CraiZE> with nautilus support, UI, and tray icon :)
<bmonty> LaserJock: very busy, you?
<LaserJock> yes, very
<Gloubiboulga> >zhois nornqgon
<Gloubiboulga> sorry
<Gloubiboulga> playing with the xklavier lib, I have some surprises some times :)
<LaserJock> Gloubiboulga: ping?
<Gloubiboulga> LaserJock, pong
<LaserJock> Gloubiboulga: bug #33806
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 33806 in siptoolbox "siptoolbox: accepted work" [Normal,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/33806
<Gloubiboulga> yep, I was waiting for a fix in dapper, but...
<Gloubiboulga> in debian*
<LaserJock> k
<Gloubiboulga> LaserJock, I don't think I can fix it myself, but I can have a new look at it
<webwolf_27> say how stable is dapper at the moment
<jpatrick> fairly
<LaserJock> webwolf_27: it really depends on your definition of stable
<webwolf_27> not constantly crashing
<dholbach> have a nice weekend everybody
<webwolf_27> you too dholbach
<bmonty> webwolf_27: dapper is very usable
<webwolf_27> good, it's like this. I'm interested in developing on a linux OS, and ubuntu looks like a good candidat, but I don't want to piss my wife off by installing extreemly unstable softw3are
<jpatrick> dholbach: bye
<LaserJock> webwolf_27: I haven't had any problems with it in the last few months. there are a few bugs here are there, but overall it is definately stable for desktop use, IMO
<webwolf_27> but it doesn't make much sense to develop on the stable version
<bmonty> webwolf_27: tell the wife to get her own machine :)
<LaserJock> bmonty: yikes
<LaserJock> azeem: ping?
<webwolf_27> bmonty,  or I'll install dapper to my notebook, and leave breezy on the main machine
<imbrandon> vmware ;)
<webwolf_27> bmonty,  then I don't need to worry about only developing on linux
<LaserJock> webwolf_27: IMO, dapper is already more stable than breezy
* imbrandon agrees with LaserJock
<webwolf_27> LaserJock, then it sounds like you all have been doing a good job, and I hope, at some point to be welcomed into the teem.
<LaserJock> webwolf_27: sure, we always welcome contributions
<LaserJock> webwolf_27: have you done any debian based packaging before?
<webwolf_27> LaserJock, nope
<LaserJock> webwolf_27: then when you install look in the Ubuntu documentation and you'll find a packaging guide or also at doc.ubuntu.com
<webwolf_27> LaserJock, will do. I've done rpm's before and I just finished a C++ cert for linux in sep.
<LaserJock> webwolf_27: cool
<cyberix> slomo: GNUnet 0.7.0c is going to make it for Dapper?
<slomo> cyberix: eh... probably... hm, i should go through all confirmed UVF exceptions next week and upload them or ask for syncs if needed...
<slomo> cyberix: thanks for reminding :)
<cyberix> ok
<cyberix> no prob
<webwolf_27> LaserJock, sorry I was bathing my son and helping my wife, and in a few min's, I'm putting the kids in bed. But what part of that was cool
<seth> steal my nick, eh
<imbrandon> can someone tell me how i can sign a package i build with equiv-build ?
<imbrandon> and yes i have gen gunpg keys etc
<imbrandon> just dunno how to sign the pkg
<jpatrick> seth: heh
<jpatrick> imbrandon: debuild -S -sa -k$YOURKEY
<imbrandon> kk thx
<seth> jpatrick, :)
<raphink> siretart: you lied :p I added this last key but didn't have the time to send the mail cause the phone rang ;)
<raphink> hehe
<siretart> raphink: lol
<siretart> :)
<raphink> ;)
<imbrandon> ok i have my .dsc and .build .changes and .tar.gz of the package made with debuild -S -sa -k<key> ....... do i dput them all to revu ? or just certain ones , this will be the first upload of this package not an update
<imbrandon> dput revu * ??
* imbrandon yawns
* tseng unhighlights Brandon
<imbrandon> unhighlights?
<tseng> its my name, it highlights when you say it
<tseng> which is all the time :)
<imbrandon> ahhh ;) heh
<LaserJock> imbrandon: dput revu *_source.changes, I think
<imbrandon> even on a first upload?
<bddebian> tseng!!
<Spec> i think you always dput the changes file
<tseng> bddebian: hi
<imbrandon> but what about the others?
<imbrandon> like the tar.gz etc
<LaserJock> imbrandon: yeah, always dput the source.changes file, it grabs everything else
<Spec> they'll get where they're going
<imbrandon> ahh ok
<imbrandon> w00t worked , thanks guys
<imbrandon> Uploading via ftp fubuntu-desktop_0.4.1_source.changes: done.
<jpatrick> imbrandon: i think the *-desktop packages are produced by seeds
<imbrandon> this is a new one, no seed for it
<imbrandon> as far as i know, like i said still kinda new to ubuntu
<imbrandon> i'm from a SuSE world
<LaserJock> hmm, is there a fubuntu project?
<imbrandon> i'm trying to create it
<imbrandon> not currently
<imbrandon> i guess i'm going about this wrong :( looks to the motu guys once again for insight
<azeem> LaserJock: pong
<LaserJock> azeem: are you up for a new upload of gausssum at a time convenient to you?
<LaserJock> azeem: I made 2 small fixes and closed a bug, is it alright if I just email you?
<LaserJock> azeem: I gotta go to a meeting but debdiff and source from gausssum (1.0.3-2) is at http://chem.unr.edu/~mantha/debian/
<azeem> LaserJock: I've uploaded it
#ubuntu-motu 2006-04-27
<LaserJock> azeem: awesome, now I can upload it to Ubuntu ;-)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<crimsun> hullo
<bddebian> Hail Master crimsun
<LaserJock_away> hi bddebian and crimsun
<LaserJock_away> in Debian, when a package is built and ready for the mirrors is taken off incoming.debian.org?
<crimsun> hullo lj
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock_away
<LaserJock_away> ewww, 40 KB/s upload
<LaserJock_away> this is going to take a while
<LaserJock_away> if only I wasn't so cheap :-)
<LaserJock_away> hi Hobbsee
* Hobbsee waves to LaserJock_away 
* LaserJock_away wave back even though he is supposed to be away ;-)
<Hobbsee> ooh, upgrades!
<Hobbsee> hehe
<bddebian> Heh
<bddebian> Hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hi bddebian
* Hobbsee gives her wireless card a pounding with all the updates...
<Hobbsee> 324kb/s - that's pretty good!
<bddebian> Heya Yagisan
<Yagisan> G'day bddebian
<Yagisan> bddebian: our SDL, is it broken ? I'm trying to debug why I'm getting a "Fatal signal: Segmentation Fault (SDL Parachute Deployed)" from an app I built
<bddebian> SDL?
* bddebian is probably showing his stupidity
<crimsun> our sdl should be fine. What's the bt like?
<Yagisan> bddebian: http://www.libsdl.org/index.php
<Yagisan> crimsun: I wish I had one atm
<bddebian> Yagisan: Ah, thx
<dolson> bddebian: I have built SDL apps recently.. should be ok. gdb is your friend and such ;)
<dolson> er
<dolson> that was for Yagisan
<bddebian> :-)
* Yagisan knows
<dolson> I wish my update-notifier would work right :\
<Yagisan> odd. strace shows it being unable to open libs that exist.
<crimsun> permissions?
<crimsun> a lot of people seem to have been bitten by the "user not in the audio group" bug lately. I have no idea whether it's rooted in the installer, or...
* crimsun sighs and returns to alsaconf hacking
<Yagisan> ah, I see. it wants other libs that sdl should have loaded, but sdl didn't load them because they are not in ia32-libs.
<LaserJock> crimsun: you probably won't have any problems from me, I hardly ever use sound
* Yagisan hopes that is the only problem
<bddebian> Ack, why am I having trouble finding bugs in Universe all the sudden on LP?
<Hobbsee> search borked again?
<bddebian> Dunno, I'm doing something wrong probably
<bddebian> I'm not too smart :-)
<LaserJock> maybe we need to put some links on bddebian's special wiki page ;p
<LaserJock> so he know where to go
<bddebian> Yes
<Hobbsee> hehe
<crimsun> LaserJock: that's exactly the opposite of what I intend ;)
* Yagisan dusts off his geriatric ia32-libs-universe package. I will be so happy when multi-arch works
<crimsun> the more people bang on sound, the more I know where to fix stuff
<Yagisan> bbl, need to take my son to the doctor
<bddebian> Yagisan: Yikes, hope he's OK
<crimsun> LaserJock: you haven't had a chance to test dapper on your imac, have you?
* bddebian thinks someone should send him a PowerBook or so :-)
<crimsun> I'm just happy to have resolved an issue where loading rosegarden in a default config causes the machine to freeze hard
* bddebian bows down to crimsun
<crimsun> nothing like nonexistent error-checking in the kernel :/
<bddebian> Oh well guess, I can't fix bugs if I can't find them.. :-)
<crimsun> what about unmetdeps? ;)
<LaserJock> crimsun: can't. I think I'll have to wait until edgy
<bddebian> crimsun: We still have those? :-)
<crimsun> LaserJock: k. If you can try the live cd, that would help, too.
<LaserJock> hmm, I need some lvm advice
<LaserJock> namely, what kind of partitioning scheme should I have
<bddebian> crimsun: Seriously, do we have an unmet deps list somewhere?  The wiki one looks like the one from Breezy?
<LaserJock> bddebian: I think siretart had something
<crimsun> bddebian: besides apt-cache unmet?
<LaserJock> bddebian: you might try http://tiber.tauware.de/~siretart/unmet/dapper-unmet.txt
<LaserJock> does lvm *not* work for certain things? booting is one I think
<bddebian> LaserJock: It used to not work for booting, I dunno if that is still the case or not
<crimsun> lvm works fine with lilo.
<crimsun> well, unless you sacrifice chickens, but then you probably have more significant issues than lvm
<LaserJock> lol
<LaserJock> hmm, are there any drawbacks to lvm? I tried googling but that didn't really give me much helpful
<crimsun> more pieces to upgrade (installer handles them fine), lilo required, etc.
<crimsun> frankly the flexibility afforded by lvm over say, my static install is overwhelming
<LaserJock> yeah, I've juggled partitions for the last couple years, but for Dapper I'm going to wipe my drive and start from scratch
<LaserJock> you have to use lilo, or can you use grub if you have a regular /boot partition?
<Chipzz> why not just use one big partition?
<Chipzz> the days when you needed a seperate /boot are long over, no?
<LaserJock> Chipzz: well, I prefer grub
<Chipzz> and using one big partition prevents you from using grub how?
<LaserJock> Chipzz: well that is what I'm unsure of
<LaserJock> if lvm plays well with one big partition
<Chipzz> I have one big partition on this laptop
<Chipzz> well
<Chipzz> one big / and then swap ofcourse
<LaserJock> and grub?
<Chipzz> yes
<Chipzz> this disk is only 30GB though
<LaserJock> do you have chroots or pbuilders on it?
<Chipzz> yes
<LaserJock> k, cool
<LaserJock> that is sort of what I wanted to know
<Chipzz> lvm is nice if you have multiple hd's and want to merge them I guess
<LaserJock> I've just never looked at lvm so I'm afraid I'm quite the newb
* Chipzz too actually
<LaserJock> I just have 1 120GB drive for linux
<Chipzz> but I was a bit tired of using a seperate (too small) /, next to seperate /usr etc...
<LaserJock> but I often like to resize partitions
<Chipzz> ubuntu kernels are quite big :P
<crimsun> please, let's not rehash _that_ :)
<Chipzz> *g* ;)
<Chipzz> but they are :P
<crimsun> you can always build your own :)
<LaserJock> I don't really care about the size of the kernel
<Chipzz> crimsun: doesn't work for me
<Chipzz> for some reason baking my own doesn't include the ipw2200 firmware :/
<LaserJock> I spent so much time redoing kernels in Gentoo, I like having one that "just works"
<Chipzz> LaserJock: make one, then use make oldconfig?
<crimsun> when you roll your own, you just need to drop the firmware files in /lib/firmware/$(uname -r)
<Chipzz> crimsun: yes, but I want them to be in my kernel deb
<crimsun> you don't even need make oldconfig, since /boot/config-$(uname -r) is parsed first
<LaserJock> crimsun: cool
<Amaranth> stupid xchat python
<joelbryan> anyone, what's a good docu to start off packaging easily
<LaserJock> joelbryan: doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html
<LaserJock> joelbryan: and then http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/
<joelbryan> does it depends on Makefile.am or should I recreate them in debian/rules file?
<LaserJock> joelbryan: does what depend?
<joelbryan> if I'm going to create a deb package, will dpkg-buildepackage use Makefile.am?
<Chipzz> joelbryan: afaik this is not related to dpkg-buildepackage at all
<Chipzz> joelbryan: but to automake
<Chipzz> joelbryan: normally, the Makefile has rules to check if Makefile.in and Makefile.am or more recent
<Chipzz> s/or/are
<Chipzz> but you may want to do the regeneration yourself, as you have more control about the version and command-line switches
<lifeless> Chipzz: AUTOMAKE_OPTIONS in Makefile.am
<lifeless> Chipzz: sets the options
<Chipzz> lifeless: and autoconf options etc?
<lifeless> Chipzz: set in configure.ac
<Chipzz> lifeless: since what version of automake/autoconf ?
<lifeless> about the only ones not controllable are -i and -c
<joelbryan> because Makefile.am also have rules where to put the package, and debian/rules also, i'm confused.
<Chipzz> prolly that was what I was thinking off
<lifeless> Chipzz: been improving slowly for ages.
<Chipzz> lifeless: so you may not want to rely on that for older versions of autoconf/automake, right?
<lifeless> Chipzz: well, thats true.
<Chipzz> :)
<joelbryan> hello, why do I get License, Blank, when issuing dh_make?
<joelbryan> but I copied /usr/share/common-license/GPL-2 to mypackagedir/LICENSE
<lifeless> joelbryan: ifI may suggest, it appears you are missing some of the basics about how packaging works. Any of the HOWTO's  or the new maintainer pguide would probably be useful to you
<joelbryan> i just figure it out, i should issue -c gpl with dh_make
<lifeless> ok, cool
<joelbryan> hello, I issue dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot, but I got chmod: cannot access build-tree/<package>/configure, but I have src/ directory in the current dir.
<joelbryan> I'm sorry, should I unpack the package.tar.gz in the build-tree dir?
<joelbryan> should I do it manually or there's a config file in debian/ where I can edit
<joelbryan> I'm choose a cdbs package.
<LaserJock> joelbryan: maybe you should look at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html and http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/
<joelbryan> hello, how can I define my PGP in my package?
<crimsun> joelbryan: clarify, please?
<\sh> morning
* StevenK waves to \sh.
<\sh> oh well, it's nice to have something to do during the week :)
<nomed> Mithrandir: around ?
<Mithrandir> nomed: yes
<nomed> is it still possible to get new pkges in universe ?
<nomed> Pinot released the version 0.46 ...
<nomed> i was waitin for that .. as now it builds using firefox-dev
<nomed> and it would be a suitable desktop search app for xubuntu
<nomed> not talkin about main just universe (obviously)
<joelbryan> hello, in ubuntu, where would /usr/libexec apps be installed?
<joelbryan> can I use the /usr/libexec dir for my apps?
<lifeless> hi joelbryan. I'm seeing a series of contextless questions from you.
<lifeless> maybe we can help you more for packaging if you give us some context.
<joelbryan> I mean, where would perl scripts be installed? in /usr/bin?
<lifeless> this page http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/perl-policy/ describes packaging of perl programs for debian
<joelbryan> I'm currently editing my Makefile.am, I have 2 perl scripts and 1 bash, and 1 gtk+ app, I don't know the standards of putting those files, so I use /usr/libexec for my scripts instead.
<lifeless> this is why I suggested you might like to read the HOWTO for packaging. Packaging is not complex, but theres lots of little details
<lifeless> and starting cold with a new package is hard without guidance :)
<lifeless> anyhow, all programs go in /usr/bin
<joelbryan> including perl scripts?
<lifeless> the program the user runs yes
<joelbryan> no, it is run by another app
<lifeless> please dont take offense at this, but I don't have the time to do 20-questions-to-package your code. I'm sure some of the MOTU's would be delighted to create ubuntu packages for you, or you *really should* read the guides for new packagers
<joelbryan> i learned alot from the docu, I can now capable of creating .deb files from source,  my problem is I have 3 apps that should not be executed, and only 1 app should be executed. I can't find a directory where I can put those 3 apps.
<lifeless> have you read the new maintainers guide ?
<joelbryan> from debian, currently reading it, from doc.ubuntu.com yes
<lifeless> joelbryan: http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#USRLIBLIBRARIESFORPROGRAMMINGANDPA
<lifeless> debian mostly follows the FHS
<jaldhar> joelbryan: if the script is run by the user it goes in /usr/bin.  If it is only used internally by a program it goes into /usr/lib/<package> if arch-dependent or /usr/share/<package> id arch-independant.  Debian doesn't use /usr/libexec
<nomed> raphink: ping
<raphink> pong nomed
<raphink> nomed: I added you
<nomed> raphink: thanks :)
<JohnnyMast> where can i download trac hmmm
<JohnnyMast> found it
<siretart> slomo: around?
<slomo> siretart: yes
<siretart> slomo: could you please have a look at #27983
<siretart> bug #27983
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 27983 in openal libopenal0 "libopenal0: openal changed API without adjusting versioning" [Unknown,Unknown]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/27983
<siretart> slomo: I have now done the whole transition including test builds, patches and so on to get this through universe
<siretart> slomo: do I need a UVF report to start this transition? mdz told me to do so, but this was before it was demoted to universe
<slomo> are new upstream versions involved? then yes... otherwise i'm fine without one
<siretart> slomo: openal IS a new upstream, freealut used to be a part of openal
<siretart> slomo: there are only 2 new upstreams involved: osgal-cvs and openalpp-cvs (both highly unstable development snapshots)
<siretart> the rest keeps the upstream versions: xpilot-ng, vegastrike, trigger, torcs, scorched3d, python-openal, flightgear, chromium, boson-base
<slomo> hm then better ask dholbach too... i would be fine with the new upstream versions
<siretart> slomo: I have them in a local repo right now. amd64 only, because I thought that might be more challanging than i386
<siretart> sources + binaries
<siretart> only 122mb big :)
<slomo> siretart: when they work on amd64 they most probably work on x86 too ;) i trust you that this won't break anything and that any unexpected breakages could be fixed rather fast
<siretart> slomo: I've done the whole transistion in a few hours (thanks to reprepro, schroot and sbuild).
<siretart> slomo: if you don't have any other concerns, I'd rather not wait for dholbach, because I'd rather like to start this transition quick.
<siretart> I mean, I tested it, debian went through it without much hassle
<slomo> siretart: ok... so do it then :)
<siretart> and regarding osgal-cvs and openalpp-cvs.. well, that are unstable development snapshots
<siretart> ok. then lets upoad freealut and openal first. they need both to go through new
<phanatic> hi people
<siretart> err, even better. they just need to be synced.
<phanatic> hi Gloubiboulga
<Gloubiboulga> hey phanatic
<bddebian> Heya gang
<jpatrick> hey bddebian
<bddebian> Hello jpatrick
<zakame> hi MOTUs
<bddebian> Heya zakame
<LaserJock> morning all
<Gloubiboulga> morning LaserJock
<LaserJock> well, I tried out the Beta livecd last night
<Gloubiboulga> well, afternoon LaserJock (it's 5pm here)
<LaserJock> the livecd is great, espresso is, ummm, difficult
<webwolf_27> hi LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi Gloubiboulga and webwolf_27
<zakame> hello LaserJock Gloubiboulga
<LaserJock> hi zakame
<webwolf_27> LaserJock, ok, whatever that second word meens
<LaserJock> webwolf_27: it is the livecd installer (now called ubiquity, I think)
<jpatrick> haha
<Gloubiboulga> hi zakame
<Gloubiboulga> LaserJock, I've used it with the Xubuntu live cd, it worked just fine
<LaserJock> I think I'm going to have to download the regular install cd
<webwolf_27> ok, I'm just working on getting the DHCP-client on the notebook setup
<phanatic> hi zakame, raphink
<LaserJock> hi raphink and bmonty
<bmonty> morning LaserJock
<raphink> hi phanatic && LaserJock
<zakame> hi phanatic raphink bmonty
<raphink> hi zakame
<zakame> gaah my DhIconCache uploads haven't shown up to now... is it really low priority, or rejected already? :/
<crimsun> you haven't gotten any rejection e-mails?
<crimsun> if not, are you using the correct key?
<zakame> no, no REJECTEDs, and using my only key
<crimsun> perhaps ping elmo on Monday
<LaserJock> anybody know offhand if the livecd has gparted on it?
<LaserJock> so far Dapper Beta is turning into a more frustrating install the Gentoo
<nomed> LaserJock: espresso-frontend-gtk depends on gparted
<LaserJock> ah, ok. so maybe I can partition everythin in gparted and then run espresso
<nomed> LaserJock: gparted is in expresso
<nomed> it would be a good test to partition your hd from within it :) .. i guess
<LaserJock> that is my problem, I can't get it to partition right
<nomed> i've had some problem too ..
<nomed> i tried to (re)format  a partition from ext2 to ext3
<nomed> the result was the livecd installed on an ext2 fs
<LaserJock> I just want to wipe my drive and start over
<crimsun> using *parted? and that failed? it's just a tune2fs operation, so that's a pretty silly bug
<LaserJock> I was going to do LVM but I don't see any options
<LaserJock> and then I tried just setting up regular partitions, and that didn't really work either
<LaserJock> so I think I need to partition before I run espresso
<nomed> crimsun: once i got the error msg saying the dev was busy
<nomed> i'll test the install again with the new livecd
<nomed> ahh .. the device was not busy in real .. and not mounted anywhere
<bmonty> anyone know how to get rid of a pending merge in bzr?
<bmonty> not even sure I know how a merge gets marked as pending
<nomed> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2294
<nomed> could anyone review this pkge ?
<\sh> any objecttons if I'm trying again to become a motu? :)
<\sh> objections
<bmonty> hi \sh!
<\sh> hey bmonty
<bmonty> \sh: did you stop being an MOTU?
<\sh> yes..I removed myself from the dev and core dev team because of private issues
<\sh> well, it means, i didn't stop being a motu, but I removed the rights to upload :)
<bmonty> well if it was up to me I would re-add you now :)
<\sh> no..that I wouldn't want...
<\sh> I'll go the way again :)
* Se7h OLHA O EMPLASTRO
<bddebian> Heya gang
<LaserJock> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
#ubuntu-motu 2006-04-28
<LaserJock> pretty dead IRC today
<crimsun> pretty dead archive, too.
<bddebian> Dead archive?
<crimsun> I can't reach CC.archive.ubuntu.com at all
<bddebian> ah
<LaserJock> well, I got the beta text installer .iso downloaded
<crimsun> g'luck
<LaserJock> well, at least the partitioner works better on the text installer
<LaserJock> even if I can't figure  out the LVM, I can still do it the old fashioned way ;-)
<joelbryan> hello, how do I upload a package in universe?
<bddebian> joelbryan: Well first you need to become an MOTU if you are not one :-)
<joelbryan> I'm not yet one
<bddebian> Then you cannot upload, sorry
<bddebian> Is it a new package or a fix?
<joelbryan> bddebian: it's http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuLiveChatSupport
<bddebian> Ah cool
<joelbryan> I've uploaded it in revu using anonymous, but I just recently recieve an email that I should use my email as a login. should I re upload again?
<bddebian> joelbryan: Probably wouldn't hurt
<bddebian> Why does apsfilter suggest dvips?  dvips hasn't been in Debian for a while afaict
<StevenK> bddebian: dvips has been sucked into tetex-bin
<bddebian> Aye
<bddebian> Thx StevenK
<StevenK> So apsfilter should Suggest tetex-bin, unless there is something stronger on it already.
<bddebian> Anyone know where .mime files are supposed to go that get processed by updatemimedb or whatever it's called?
<tuxmaniac> Hey is REVU working?
<crimsun> afaict, yes. Why?
<tuxmaniac> crimsun: The site is not loading for me.. It is waiting for data from revu
<crimsun> loads fine here.
<tuxmaniac> crimsun: Can you find my newly uploaded package xcircuit there?
<crimsun> no.
<tuxmaniac> something is wrong!
<tuxmaniac> I did a dput *.changes> and the upload went smothly
<tuxmaniac> crimsun: Is it the right method
<tuxmaniac> crimsun: I am a new packager
<crimsun> is your key in the revu keyring?
<Hobbsee> REVU's down here too crimsun
<Hobbsee> no, wait, it's come back, hitting refresh
* tuxmaniac wonders whether it was due to his upload :P
<tuxmaniac> crimsun: yeah
<crimsun> tuxmaniac: you'll have to ask a revu admin to look, then
<LaserJock> hi tuxmaniac
<tuxmaniac> Hi LaserJock
* Hobbsee Ni's at LaserJock 
<crimsun> as in shrubbery "ni"?
<Hobbsee> crimsun: of course.
<crimsun> I can never tell.
* LaserJock sends an IT Hobbsee's way
* Hobbsee demands a shrubbery, crying NI!!!!!
<bddebian> NI
<Hobbsee> ni @ bddebian!
<crimsun> beware, I have sharp pointy teeth
<bddebian> haha
* bddebian whips out the Holy Hand grenade of Antioch
* Hobbsee has, in her posession, a large killer rabbit
* Hobbsee sets the killer rabbit to go and attack crimsun 
<crimsun> someone has been playing with the beacon again
<LaserJock> RUN AWAY!!
<Hobbsee> hey no, we're not going into the beacon section!
<Hobbsee> yes, RUN AWAY!  RUN AWAY!
* tuxmaniac is away: Off to a function!!
<answerguy> I have an off-topic question: I've just created a very simple PAM module ... and I've packaged it up as a tarball and in RPM form.  (The tarball contains a working .spec file .. which I've tested)
<answerguy> Once ... many eons ago ... I "debiatized" some package ... just to teach myself how.
<answerguy> The question: where would be the best place for me to ask for a little coaching on how to package this PAM module for Debian/Ubuntu as well?
<Hobbsee> answerguy: here, and see http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html
<answerguy> Actually the question *here* is ... a little more specific:  do I have to have a .diff?
<crimsun> yes, because your module is not native.
<answerguy> If my original source tree has a ./debian directory can I just package with that way?
<crimsun> yes, but it still needs a diff.
* answerguy reads the Ubuntu Packaging Guide
<ajmitch> afternoon
<crimsun> 'afternoon, ajmitch
<Hobbsee> hi ajmitch!
<ajmitch> how's it going?
<crimsun> not bad, you?
<ajmitch> alright, just been visiting parents
<crimsun> ah, they're doing well?
<ajmitch> yep
<crimsun> excellent
<ajmitch> was just celebrating dad's 50th birthday
<crimsun> cool :)
<ajmitch> yeah, it was good to see the family again
<LaserJock_away> hmm, quick question. should I run into any problems using XFS for / ?
<ajmitch> you may do
<ajmitch> I've only heard of rumours of grub issues lately
<LaserJock_away> well, I finally got dapper beta installed and I went all crazy with the FS stuff
<LaserJock_away> I did LVM with XFS
<LaserJock_away> now I am thinking to myself if I maybe shouldn't have done XFS
<ajmitch> you're seeing a few issues?
<LaserJock_away> no, nothing yet
<LaserJock_away> I just wondered if you more "experienced" guys would know
<LaserJock_away> I guess I can switch it latter if I want, I made a large backup non-LVM ext3 partition
<crimsun> I ran XFS on / for years
<LaserJock_away> with no problems? what do you use currently?
<crimsun> at first I had /boot as ext2 (then ext3), but it was no big deal
<crimsun> eventually I wiped out the separate /boot
<LaserJock_away> I have /boot as a seperate partition right now since I like to store other kernels there
<crimsun> I run JFS on lvm (Breezy) on one older machine, and this X41-2527 uses ext3 for /
<Chipzz> I've been wonderig the same thing actually; what if upstream keeps track of all debian/ changes (and no diff is *needed*); do you stillhave to ship an empty .diff.gz?
* answerguy looks at Chipzz
<LaserJock_away> Chipzz: my experience is that it is nice to still seperate them in case a bug fix needs to be quickly done
<crimsun> Chipzz: is the package native?
<LaserJock_away> Chipzz: it is much easier if you don't have to upload the entire source tarball each time
<answerguy> crimsun: What does "native" mean in this context?
<Chipzz> crimsun: lets presume for a moment that the upstream maintainer is the debian packager and he keeps changes in upstream cvs/svn/whatever
<answerguy> Meanwhile let's presume that the package maintainer is the author but that the package not in any archive ... it's just out on some website
<Chipzz> and in such case, the upstream maintainer would commit any changes needed in debian/ upstream the moment they're needed
<Chipzz> or, upstream != native, but debian maintainer is authorized to make commits in upstream cvs/svn/whatever
<crimsun> Chipzz: a diff is extremely useful. That's precisely the situation with vlc.
<Chipzz> and debian/ubuntu maintainer decides to keep changes in upstream
<crimsun> Sam is both upstream developer and its Debian maintainer
<Chipzz> is there a reason to keep a diff.gz in such case?
<crimsun> yes, for Debian-specific things
<Chipzz> for example, debian maintainer wants to any user to be able to build a package from upstream cvs/svn/etc at whatever time possible, and keeps upstream up-to-date
<Chipzz> crimsun: let me put it another way: is possible, would there be a reason *not* to keep the debian/ dir in sync upstream all the time?
<Chipzz> s/is/if/
<crimsun> Chipzz: that's a maintainer preference, really. Ideally, no, but if the package was not written specifically for Debian/Ubuntu, then it's non-native and must have a diff.
<Chipzz> crimsun: so the debian/ubuntu archive would still contain a diff, which, if expanded, would be 0 bytes?
<crimsun> I've never seen that case, but if so, it could happen
<Chipzz> I'm just assuming someone with an upstream version ocntrol account, with a big interest in debian/ubuntu, would, with the approval of upstream, instantly commit any changes in the debian dir
<Chipzz> actually, I have been in the case of having a gnome cvs account in the past, and was interested i commiting changes in upstream cvs, but never dared/bothered to ask the debian maintainers
<crimsun> it would be more sensible imo to maintain debian/ on alioth, perhaps
<Chipzz> but lets say for a moment upstream either didn't care/did agree?
<Chipzz> what about commiting changes on alioth in upstream?
<Chipzz> (yes, I know, this is very theoretical, but I'm just wondering)
<answerguy> As a practical matter I've installed the dh_make, pbuilder, lintian and linda pages, etc and done an apt-get source hello
<crimsun> Chipzz: personally maintaining debian/ outside of the upstream source makes things easier
<answerguy> ... and I've created a copy of my (upstream) source tree and copied in the hello.../debian/* files thereunder.  So now I've edited the changelog, control and other files, and removed the postinst and prerm scripts (which are unnecessary for this package)
<Chipzz> (I'm asking because in practice, if there *is* a debian dir upstream at all, most upstream maintainers don't care to keep it up-to-date; so you would have an out-of-date upstream debian dir whch wouldn't work most of the time anyway)
<answerguy> Now I'm looking at the debian/rules file.  What a mess.
<crimsun> take for instance quod libet, where Joe is both upstream co-developer and Debian maintainer. debian/ is maintained in upstream svn but in a completely separate section from the QL/EF source.
<crimsun> answerguy: some people would argue that cdbs is far preferable.
<answerguy> Well, I'm not here to argue.  I don't even know what a cdbs is
<crimsun> it's also covered in the Packaging Guide
<crimsun> (well, an introduction to it at least)
<answerguy> So I see
<answerguy> So I have a question for you crimsun ... would you be willing to look at the sources to my package and give some suggestions?
<Chipzz> crimsun: anyway, my apologies for bothering you, I should have asked on a mailinglist in the first place I guess ;))
<crimsun> np, you're not bothering
<answerguy> It's pretty trivial; one .c file which compile into a .so PAM module.
<answerguy> http://www.starshine.org/jimd/pam_primesudo/
<crimsun> answerguy: I'm busy atm, perhaps later today?
<answerguy> NP
<crimsun> (someone else can, too)
<answerguy> I'll still take a crack at doing it myself, but I'm a bit tired now.
<Chipzz> crimsun: nn :)
<answerguy> the coding for this was trivial (just took Solar Designers pam_mktemp package, ripped about half of it, added less than a dozen lines of my own and it works)
<answerguy> But documenting and packaging is all the real work.
* answerguy goes to take a break
<Hobbsee> to all who ask, no, i was not nick changing at random, i was testing someone
<Hobbsee> s/someone/something
<crimsun> stop changing nicks randomly@!
<crimsun> ;p
<Hobbsee> crimsun: sorry!
<Hobbsee> konv has dodgy scripting!
<Hobbsee> it's better than opping random people by accident!
<sivang> morning all
<crimsun> 'morning, sivang
<Hobbsee> hi sivang
<sivang> hey crimsun , Hobbsee , how's it going ?
<Hobbsee> cold!!!!
<Hobbsee> :P
<sivang> Hobbsee: cold? where are you based at?
<Hobbsee> sivang: sydney.
<crimsun> sivang: not too bad, finding a bedtime story
<nomed> hi all
<nomed> does ubuntu livecd use same gdm.conf as the installed system ?
<ajmitch> \sh: documented the cdimage stuff yet? ;)
<zakame> hi all
<\sh> ajmitch:no didn't have the time last week...was all the week down in karlsruhe to get the new job running
<ajmitch> \sh: ok, I'll accept that :)
<ajmitch> when do you start working?
<\sh> ajmitch: oh well..that was a bit strange...I came to karlsruhe around noon, then I had a 30min interview, around 3pm I signed an NDA, and at 6pm I was sitting in a meeting to discuss what I will do to setup FAI :)
<ajmitch> hehe nice :)
<ajmitch> very quick
<\sh> yeah...this guy is a debian freak :)
<ajmitch> always a good sign
<\sh> so I hope when I write my invoice next week, I get the money asap...and I can transfer some money back to the donators :)
<ajmitch> :)
<Yagisan> ajmitch: I see you finally overtook me.
<ajmitch> Yagisan: yes, I did
* tuxmaniac is away: Off to FSUG-Bangalore Meet! Be right Back!
<phanatic> hi people
<Yagisan> G'day phanatic
<phanatic> hello Yagisan
<bddebian> Heya gang
* Hobbsee waves to bddebian 
<bddebian> Hi Hobbsee
<ajmitch> hello bddebian, Hobbsee :)
* Hobbsee waves to ajmitch 
* highvoltage wonders what Hobbsee is so excited about... perhaps bug1 got solved or something.
<Hobbsee> me?  excited?  not in particular, why?
<zakame> hi all
<Hobbsee> hi zakame
<zakame> heya Hobbsee!
<highvoltage> zzzzakame!
* Hobbsee considers falling asleep on the keyboard
<phanatic> hey zakame
<bddebian> Oh, Hi over here too zakame :-)
<zakame> hi phanatic
<zakame> heya bddebian ! :D
* zakame has finally gotten around to merge the CVS patch annotations
<joelbryan> hello, how to be a MOTU member?
<phanatic> joelbryan: http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes
<phanatic> upload packages to revu
<joelbryan> thanks
<joelbryan> just got a new package, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuCommercialSupport
<phanatic> be arund for a couple of months, and you'll become a motu ;)
<phanatic> s/arund/around
<joelbryan> kewl!
<zakame> cool new app
* Mongoose is away: /_\ zzZzZZZZzz
* tuxmaniac is back (gone 05:37:19)
<zakame> hello \sh
<\sh> hey zakame
<jpatrick> LaserJock_away: warn me when you're back
<tuxmaniac> Any Revu Admin here!!?
<jpatrick> not sure...
<tuxmaniac> I want to know how much time will it take for a uploaded package to get reflected on the site
<jpatrick> 5 minutes
<tuxmaniac> I uploaded  reflecteda package around 12 hrs back! And still not yet
<tuxmaniac> I uploaded a package around 12 hrs back! And still not yet
<jpatrick> what's it called?
<tuxmaniac> XCircuit
<tuxmaniac> I used dput <*.changes> command
<tuxmaniac> jpatrick: It uploaded four files after verifying my sig!! But still it has not got reflected
<jpatrick> tuxmaniac: what's your default dput server?
<jpatrick> you may of have uploaded to ubuntu
<jpatrick> try "dput revu *.changes"
<tuxmaniac> Oh ok.
<tuxmaniac> jpatrick: Yeah I see the mistake!
<tuxmaniac> dput.cf not configured properly
<jpatrick> ok, there you go
<tuxmaniac> jpatrick: I need help configuring it! the default_host_main is pointing to ubuntu
<tuxmaniac> jpatrick: If I am right it should point to rev?
<jpatrick> yep
<jpatrick> "revu"
<tuxmaniac> jpatrick: Also the fqdn should be chaned to upload.revu.com?
<jpatrick> no
<jpatrick> defaults are fine
<jpatrick> just try dput revu *.changes
<tuxmaniac> jpatrick: Error is No host revu found in config
<jpatrick> ...
<tuxmaniac> If I change fqdm setting to upload.revu.com
<tuxmaniac> it checks my signature and says good.. And then pops the following error
<jpatrick> tuxmaniac: http://kubuntu.pastebin.com/677155
<tuxmaniac> Connection refused.
<jpatrick> put that into your /etc/dput.cf ^
<tuxmaniac> http://kubuntu.pastebin.com/677164
<tuxmaniac> After doing the changes the above error pops up.. So the server has got my upload?
<jpatrick> ...
<jpatrick> i don't see it in incoming/
<tuxmaniac> Then how is this error
<jpatrick> tuxmaniac: beyond me, sorry
<tuxmaniac> jpatrick: Ok. No probs
<tuxmaniac> bddebian on ubuntu-bugs is tryi to sort it also :)
<phanatic> hi people
<tuxmaniac> hi paniq
<tuxmaniac> hi phanatic
<phanatic> hello tuxmaniac
* Mongoose is back (gone 02:27:42)
<bddebian> Hello phanatic
<phanatic> hey bddebian
<sivang> re all
<awb4422> morning all
<bddebian> wb sivang
<bddebian> Hello awb4422
<sivang> hey bddebian , still breaking stuff? :)
<sivang> slomo: gonna clean the rules file now, do that build-indep change, then will you be up for some review?
<sivang> slomo: (re: HomeUserBackup)
<slomo> sivang: sure... just give me the url
<bddebian> sivang: Of course :-)
<awb4422> I'm sure you guys get this question all the time..well at I least I hope you do..
<sivang> bddebian: hehe, you always make me laugh with how you describe what you do ;)
<sivang> slomo: k, in about 30 minutes from now
<awb4422> but I really want to help - and I'm hoping to just hang out in here while I learn some stuff if that's cool
<sivang> slomo: then, how do I upload subsequent versions?
<awb4422> eventually I'd like to become a MOTU-Hopeful
<slomo> sivang: i don't understand your question ;) upload to where?
<sivang> slomo: after the inital upload, can we have an arrangemnet to quick upload for fixes and progress?
<awb4422> and maybe maintain openafs packages if possible
<slomo> sivang: sure... just ping me whenever you want something uploaded :)
<sivang> slomo: not something, but this specific thing :) HUB
<slomo> sivang: sure :) well, something was a bit broad anyway (think of the kernel etc ;) )
<sivang> slomo: indeed, which I won't touch even after I have been granted main upload rights.
<hub> sivang: stop pinging me
<slomo> hub: a package will be named after you soon ;)
<sivang> hub: sorry :-(
<sivang> hub: it's just that HomeUserBackup shortcut is your nick :)
<sivang> slomo: heh
<sivang> slomo: should I touch the arch-build target ?
<jpatrick> haha
<slomo> sivang: do it how you think it would make sense :)
<sivang> slomo: okay, I leave it untouched as I see it removes the .bzr meta data. I assume this makes the buildds happy.
<zul__> right time to catch up with bddebian
<bddebian> Never happen.. Mwuhahaha
<zul__> im a quarter a way there ;)
<bddebian> I'm kidding, I hope you surpass me :-)
<zul__> i know...im very competetive though
<sivang> zul__ , bddebian : talking about who fixed more bugs?
<zul__> yep..
<sivang> slomo: although I read some bits about make files in the GNU manual, could you give a short concise explenation for the .PHONEY target and it's dependants ?
<slomo> sivang: afaik the .PHONY lists all rules that are meant to be real rules and not files
<sivang> slomo: ah, makes sense with I found in this makefile
<sivang> slomo: thanks
<zul__> ooh...crocodile dundee is on
<sivang> slomo: re s/unstable/dapper, should I do this only in the changlog or is there another place where this is taken from?
<slomo> only changelog
<sivang> k
<jpatrick> LaserJock_away: here: http://www.kubuntu-es.org/jpatrick/parches/ubuntupackguide-20060423.diff
<TTT_Travis> hi guys, I develop Ubuntu Center ( http://ubuntucenter.info ) I did a pre-Alpha release last month I did make a deb to install it but for my postinst script I just used a simple shell script that asked some question and I am working on making better packaging structure. I am wondering how to make it ask questions using those blue ncurses popup windows
<TTT_Travis> is there a guide somewhere on howto make them?
<zyga> TTT_Travis: debian packaging policy, use debconf stuff instead of hand-made questions
<zyga> I'm not fluent in that so I cannot tell you the details but the policy manual it thick enough to help
<TTT_Travis> k
<TTT_Travis> debconf
<TTT_Travis> gotcha
<zyga> TTT_Travis: note that asking questions during install is a pain in the ass
<zyga> don't do it unless there is really no other way around
<TTT_Travis> k
<TTT_Travis> I get what you're saying
<TTT_Travis> I think I have an idea on howto make it all web based
<zyga> package installation?
<TTT_Travis> no
<TTT_Travis> right now during installation it asks like what password you want to use to access ubuntu center and stuff
<TTT_Travis> but I think I can make the web based
<zyga> TTT_Travis: you can make ~/.some-file or even /etc/some-file, that's easier
<TTT_Travis> yeah but its no config based
<TTT_Travis> and since this is a web based tool a web based setup is appropriate
<zyga> but the password can be, right/
<TTT_Travis> so I think thats what I will do
<TTT_Travis> what?
<zyga> if all you need to ask is the password then you can either ask at runtime/first-run or put it in some per-user config file
<TTT_Travis> yeah
<TTT_Travis> first run time
<TTT_Travis> so it would be the first time someone goes to ubuntu center in there web browser
<sivang> slomo: okay, I think I'm ready. one last thing -
<sivang> slomo: dhlobach noted I should alos upload and .orig
<sivang> slomo: yu didn't mention anything about that, what do you think ?
<slomo> either make a native package or don't make one
<slomo> and i thought you want to make a native package :)
<sivang> slomo: hmm right, however , HUBackup could be used on any debian/ubuntu derivatives, and maybe from source if the distro supports /etc/adduser.conf
<sivang> what do you think?
<slomo> make it non-native and make separate release without debian packaging if it could work on other distros too
<slomo> make it native if it's debian specific
<sivang> okay, so currently it's debian specific
<sivang> so it's gonna be native :)
* sivang uploads a source to temp location
<sivang> slomo: http://muse.19inch.net/~sivan/upbackup
<sivang> slomo: let me know about it now
* sivang crosses fingers
<slomo> sivang: i'll take a look in ~1 hour
<sivang> slomo: okay, thanks
<sivang> slomo: I may go to sleep by then , let's hope I won't have any show-stoppers :)
<cbx33> hi guys, anyone able to answer my questions about REVU?
<phanatic> cbx33: i hope i can help you...
<cbx33> phanatic, ahhh kewl
<cbx33> I'm not a MOTU
<cbx33> but I fixed a bug in a package
<cbx33> uploaded a debdiff to launchpad
<cbx33> two questions
<cbx33> 1) What do I change the status of the bug to
<cbx33> 2) Someone said I could upload the patched source to REVU
<cbx33> if the answer to 2 is yes....what exactly do i need to submit and how :p
<sivang> slomo: crap, I forgot one debug option I need to remove, re-uploading
<phanatic> cbx33: for 2) i don't think you need to upload it to revu
<cbx33> someone said it would happen quicker if I did?
<cbx33> but i would submit it for a UVF one of the wiki's said?
<phanatic> i don't really think so
<phanatic> for a bugfix you don't need an uvfe afaik
<cbx33> no no
<cbx33> but I have filed a UVF
<cbx33> on an unrelated issue
<phanatic> you should assign the bug to the motu-reviewers
<phanatic> and they'll take care of it
<cbx33> ok
<Zdra> hi ! I just uploaded a package to universe using the howto there: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU?action=show&redirect=REVU
<Zdra> but I don't understand how and where I can see my package
<Zdra> where are comments from MOTU members if they say something on my package ?
<Gloubiboulga> Zdra, on http://revu.tauware.de
<phanatic> http://revu.tauware.de
<phanatic> and your package is not in universe yet
<phanatic> just up for reviewing
<phanatic> hey Gloubiboulga :)
<Gloubiboulga> hi phanatic :)
<Zdra> phanatic: yes of course, that's my first package, so I'm waiting for comments ;-)
<Zdra> thx
<phanatic> Zdra: okay :)
<Zdra> great it's on the list :D
<phanatic> Zdra: what does this package do?
<Zdra> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2301 --> it install unrealtournament
<Zdra> download and copy data from CDROM
<phanatic> i see...
<phanatic> thx :)
<Zdra> that's just scripts mainly copied from flashplugin-nonfree
<phanatic> so, then it'll go to multiverse if accepted
<Zdra> If this package can be accepted I'll make package for ut2003, ut2004 and doom3
<Zdra> and also make package for demo of all those games
<Zdra> phanatic: I know it's for multiverse... should I upload it else where ? Or is universe/multiverse managed by the same team ?
<phanatic> Zdra: the same team, so it's in the right place
<phanatic> but the reviewers are busy with bughunting for dapper, so please be patient
<Zdra> phanatic: of course !
<Zdra> I can wait for edgy :)
<sivang> slomo: please wait with the upload , I have yet one more thing to fix in the ode
<sivang> slomo: code
<Zdra> and this is my first package so I'm sure there will be thinks to change... but I can learn :)
<slomo> sivang: sure, i didn't have any time to look at it yet anyway... i fear that i can't do it anymore today but have to do it tomorrow :(
<Zdra> how can I login revu.tauware.de ?
<Zdra> I enter my email of the changelog, as said
<Zdra> I presse recover
<Zdra> but then I receive no mail
<Zdra> all I have is this message:
<Zdra> To decrypt your password, type the following into your shell:
<Zdra> > gpg -d <<EOT ; echo
<Zdra> Now paste the text below, and enter EOT<return>
<Zdra> but no encrypted password...
<zul> have you ever uploaded before?
<Zdra> zul: I just uploaded unrealtournament package
<Zdra> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2301
<Zdra> never before... as far as I know
<zul> not sure...i dont revu either :)
<Zdra> phanatic: any idea ?
<phanatic> don't know, you should get it i think...
<LaserJock> Zdra: did you use the same email that you used in the changelog of you packages?
<Zdra> yes
<Zdra> xclaesse@gmail.com
<LaserJock> and did you get an email back from an admin saying your key was added?
<sivang> slomo: I see
<sivang> slomo: never mind, I'll continue working on it then
<Zdra> LaserJock: I got no mail
<sivang> slomo: ping m tomorrow okay? :)
<slomo> sivang: sure :)
<LaserJock> Zdra: did you send an email asking to be added?
<Zdra> I think I did that long before but I didn't uploaded since now
<LaserJock> Zdra: I'd email the revu admins if you can't find one here that is awake
<sivang> does anybody recall the name of the gnome program that allows you to have another GNOME session of a new user inside a window?
* sivang notes it may have something with Xnest
<sivang> hmm, I think it's sabayon
#ubuntu-motu 2006-04-29
<Zdra> gdmflexiserver --xnest
<sivang> Zdra: nice :) what is gdmflexiserver ?
<sivang> Zdra: so sabayon only adds profiles to those :)
<Zdra> sivang: I don't know ubuntu had a icon in the application menu with that before dapper, now it's hidden by default :)
<sivang> way cool
<Zdra> all I know is that it worked on breezy :)
<sivang> I wish I know what this is
<sivang> knew
<sivang> slomo: maybe you have an idea about gdmflexiserver ?
<ajmitch> afternoon Hobbsee
<ajmitch> well, morning for you
<Hobbsee> morning ajmitch
<bddebian> Heya Hobbsee, ajmitch
* Hobbsee didnt think it was *that* late!
<ajmitch> hello bddebian
<Hobbsee> hi bddebian
* ajmitch ended up waking up at 7:30AM, of course :P
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> crazy ajmitch!
<ajmitch> yes, crazy for staying up that late
<ajmitch> someone is a bad influence on me, I'm sure
<Hobbsee> !@#$#$%^^
<ajmitch> ?
<Hobbsee> found a new way for the dcc exploit
<ajmitch> ah
<ajmitch> something else to deal with in channels
<Hobbsee> yes
<ajmitch> sigh, I have to go off to uni in a few minutes
<Hobbsee> heh, enjoy
<ajmitch> yay, 3 students in the lab
<ajmitch> it's going to be an exciting afternoon
<bddebian> heh
<ajmitch> ok, it's grown to 4 students, I might be really busy then :)
* Hobbsee_ growls at her dodgy net connection
* Kyral mutters to himself
* Hobbsee pokes Kyral 
<Kyral> hey
<bddebian> Heya Kyral
<Kyral> hey....
* Kyral is thinknig about stopping going for MOTU
<bddebian> Ack, why?
<Kyral> I dunno...I'm becoming more involved with ArchLinux...
<bddebian> Gah
<TheMuso> Kyral: I guess you are finding it better for your needs?
<Kyral> TheMuso, yah
<Kyral> its quicker on the draw so to speak and its easier to tweak every aspect
<TheMuso> quicker on the draw?
<Kyral> Yah....as in performs faster
<Mongoose> O RLY?
<Mongoose> Kyral: =)
<Kyral> yah
<Kyral> and the AUR is nice
<TheMuso> Do you really think i686 optimizations are helping with that?
<TheMuso> AUR?
<bddebian> Kyral: What packaging system does it use?
<TheMuso> bddebian: Its own AFAIK.
<TheMuso> Their packages aren't broken down so much however.
<TheMuso> So you want ncurses, you get the libs and the headers in the one package.
<bddebian> TheMuso: Ah
<Kyral> TheMuso, moreso that it doesn't assume you want any daemons running
<Kyral> ie, drops you to a command line and lets you build from scratch
<TheMuso> Right.
<Kyral> so I don't have RAID running when I don't need
<TheMuso> It is targeting a different audience I guess.
<Kyral> same with modules
<bddebian> Sounds like Slackware or Gentoo :-)
<Kyral> do a lsmod | wc -l right now and tell me how many modules you have loaded
<Kyral> I have 66 loaded
<TheMuso> I was a Slackware user, but got sick of tweaking and settings things up
<TheMuso> And the package management...
<TheMuso> I played with arc a bit, but wasn't fond of it./
<bddebian> Kyral: 63
<Kyral> bddebian, on Ubuntu?
<bddebian> Kyral: Yep
<Kyral> hmm nm then lol
<Kyral> then again I have my full complement loaded
<bddebian> Kyral: Of course that's my server install ;-P
* Kyral falls down
<Kyral> No GUI?
<bddebian> Nope :-)
<Kyral> Cheater....
<TheMuso> Kyral: So I guess the question is, why are you still here?
<Kyral> TheMuso, because I still maintain packages...
<Kyral> I won't abandon them
<TheMuso> Right.
<Kyral> Oh bddebian I have you beat
<Kyral> horribly beat
<TheMuso> If thats the case, you should go for MOTU, as the middle man will be removed if you have upload rights.
<Kyral> my XenBreezy server, only 12 modules loaded :P
<TheMuso> So to speak.
<TheMuso> But how much of that is in the kernel? :)
<Kyral> good point...I had to custom compile the kernel....
<bddebian> Kyral: :-)
<Kyral> it IS Xen
<Kyral> 5.1 MB kernel
<Kyral> I should slash it down when I go to Xen 3
<Kyral> I don't need like ANYTHING in there
<Kyral> I could prolly drop it to 2 MB
<Kyral> basically I'm a performance junkie right now
<Kyral> my laptop is 3 years old, so I need every advantage I can get
<Kyral> this Desktop is almost a year and a half and lives on an Athlon XP, which isn't made anymore (sadly)
<Kyral> and personally I find it fun to take these things to the limit :D
<Kyral> To see how far I can push my hardware
<Kyral> to see if I can do it
<Kyral> this is why I'm gonna (at least try) to make my own distro at some point
<TheMuso> Good luck. :)
<TheMuso> LFS is probably the place to start.
<Kyral> How'd you guess I was gonna start there :P
<TheMuso> Thats where most would start probably.
* Hobbsee shudders at the idea of masses of compiling
<Kyral> hehe
<Kyral> It would be fun to see if I could do it
<Kyral> to write my own package management system
<Kyral> I may be getting ahead of my self, but I think I know what I would call it
<Kyral> Infinity Linux (I was doodling in class the other day and I randomly drew the Infinity symbol and thought "Hey! That would be a cool name for a distro")
<TheMuso> hehe
<bddebian> Heya tritium
<tritium> hello bddebian :)
<Se7h> Fetched 150MB in 5m50s (427kB/s)
<Se7h> \o/ updates
<Se7h> lol
<Se7h> hello :)
<bddebian> Heya zakame
<zakame> hello bddebian
<jmg> anyone run ubuntu on a macbok pro?
<dholbach> good morning motu world :)
<Hobbsee> afternoon dholbach
<ajmitch> it's evening, not afternoon
<ajmitch> the sun has set!
<dholbach> hey Hobbsee :)
<dholbach> Hobbsee: how are you?
<Hobbsee> i'm okay, thinking about lunch and work
* dholbach thinks about coffee and work ;)
<dholbach> i finally got that  vi  mug during the weekend
<dholbach> maybe it'll work better for me today :-p
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: isn't it a little late for lunch? :)
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: its' 4pm...
<Hobbsee> and if i dont have some form of lunch before work, i'll pass out...
<dholbach> Hobbsee: don't worry - seb128 asks me the same questions all the time :)
<ajmitch> yes
<Hobbsee> hehe
<ajmitch> so it's dinner, not lunch
<ajmitch> we really don't think passing out is a good idea
<Hobbsee> no, dinner will be when i get home again!
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> and breakfast was at noon?
* Hobbsee now has lunch.
<Hobbsee> er...did breakfast occur today?
<ajmitch> welcome back, good to see you're still with us
<Hobbsee> oh yeah, it was yesterday that it didnt occur.  yes, lunch occured today...11am or something...
<Hobbsee> of course i'm still here.  i'd only pass out in a few hours, at work
<sivang> slomo_: ping, morning
<adu> ahh
<zakame> hi all
<ajmitch> hi zakame
<ajmitch> evening Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hi ajmitch
<Hobbsee> thought you might still be awake
<ajmitch> me? nah..
<Hobbsee> yes.  you.
<ajmitch> why would I be awake at this hour?
<Hobbsee> because you never sleep?
<zakame> hello ajmitch Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hi zakame
* StevenK jumps on Hobbsee.
* Hobbsee pokes StevenK hard in the ribs
<ajmitch> hello StevenK
<StevenK> Ouch!
* StevenK waves.
<zakame> heya StevenK
* Hobbsee waves to Seveas 
<zakame> hi Seveas
<Seveas> hi
<cyberix> slomo_: GNUnet update ack. gnunet-gtk will get an update too?
<zul> heylo
<zakame> heylo zul
<zul> hey zakame
<phanatic> hi people
<zakame> hello phanatic
<Gloubiboulga> hi phanatic, zakame
<phanatic> hey zakame, Gloubiboulga
* Hobbsee waves to zakame Gloubiboulga and phanatic 
* phanatic waves back to Hobbsee :)
<Gloubiboulga> hi Hobbsee
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: it's easier to just wave to .*
<Hobbsee> heh
<zakame> heya Gloubiboulga  Hobbsee
<zakame> $motu->wave
* Mithrandir waves to ajmitch, tickles Hobbsee and runs away again
<ajmitch> heh
<zakame> lol
* Hobbsee thwaps Mithrandir and pokes him hard in the ribs
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: too late, I'm out of range already.
* Hobbsee gets her big stick ready for the next time
<Mithrandir> I'll have to bring a long stick with feathers on, then?
<Hobbsee> haha
<Hobbsee> you'll find it pretty hard to manipulate
<ajmitch> morning bddebian
<zakame> heya bddebian
<Hobbsee> hi bddebian
* Hobbsee pokes bddebian with the big stick
<Hobbsee> see, this is how it's done...
<bddebian> Heya gang
<bddebian> Hi ajmitch, zakame, Hobbsee
<sivang> heya bddebian jaw breaker :)
<bddebian> heh
<bddebian> Hi sivang
<sivang> bddebian: what are you plans for breaking today? :-D
<sivang> *your
<Hobbsee> he's going to break apt, of course :D
<sivang> hehe
<bddebian> Dunno yet, got something I SHOULD break? ;-P
<sivang> bddebian: hehe
<Hobbsee> bddebian: yes, apt.
<bddebian> Nah, I like "fixing" a bug for a universe package, trying to upload, then finding out part of it is in main :-(
<Hobbsee> hehe
<ajmitch> and having to get main UVF exceptions? :)
<zakame> lol
<bddebian> ajmitch: Nah, it was a small change
<bddebian> Heya tuxmaniac
<tuxmaniac> bddebian: Hi
<tuxmaniac> Got your email
<tuxmaniac> bddebian: I will change the changelog
<bddebian> Cool.  Any resolution on the REVU problem yet?
<tuxmaniac> bddebian: Nope. Still it says file already present in the server! :)
<zakame> changelog the changelog
<bddebian> zakame: :-)
<tuxmaniac> hi zakame  :)
<zakame> heya tuxmaniac
<zakame> wb phanatic
<phanatic> hey zakame
<bddebian> ajmitch: Any chance you have a second to look at tuxmaniac's upload to REVU?
<tuxmaniac> ajmitch: I dont know whether it got uploaded :)
<zakame> wowoctaviz takes long
<zakame> gar sticky keys
<ajmitch> tuxmaniac: what package?
<tuxmaniac> XCircuit
<ajmitch> tuxmaniac: how far did the upload get?
<ajmitch> since I don't see it at all on there
<tuxmaniac> ajmitch: All the 4 files got uploaded..
<ajmitch> unless someone has kindly removed it
<tuxmaniac> Initially I dint configure it to revu
<ajmitch> ah right
<tuxmaniac> ajmitch: so might have got uploaed to ubuntu
<ajmitch> that's probably why
<ajmitch> you tried again with dput -f ?
<tuxmaniac> ajmitch: But afterwards bddebian helpeed me.. And when i again tried
<tuxmaniac> ajmitch: it throws up a File already present in the server error!
<ajmitch> and in your dput config?
<ajmitch> I can see that it's certainly not here
<tuxmaniac> yes
<tuxmaniac> I did change my dput.cf file.
<ajmitch> yes, but tell me what's in your dput.cf file, please
<tuxmaniac> http://kubuntu.pastebin.com/677164
<tuxmaniac> Thats the error i get
<ajmitch> right, so it says that files *may* be present
<bddebian> tuxmaniac: Can you pastbin your dput.cf?
<ajmitch> but it's likely that your dput.cf is wrong
<tuxmaniac> http://pastebin.com/678896
<tuxmaniac> ajmitch: I am new to packaging.. So bare with me pls :)
<ajmitch> tuxmaniac: it's wrong, change it to what is on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<zakame> hmm gnus just got the O
<ajmitch> specifically the incoming = / line
<ajmitch> should be incoming = /incoming
<tuxmaniac> ajmitch: Oh ok
<tuxmaniac> ajmit:)ch: zakame : bddebian : Its uploading finally
<tuxmaniac> ajmitch: Danke!
<ajmitch> ok, now people can get on correcting the packages :)
<bddebian> tuxmaniac: Awesome!
<bddebian> ajmitch: Thanks
<zakame> tuxmaniac: rock on! =)
<tuxmaniac> thanks all.. I luv ubuntu for this only...
<bddebian> :-)
<tuxmaniac> bddebian: And abt the other issue of installing into X diectory
<tuxmaniac> bddebian: thats how the previous package was packed :P
<tuxmaniac> Guys while uploading should the dinstall run?
<bddebian> No
<bddebian> tuxmaniac: Well it was wrong too then :-)
<bddebian> tuxmaniac: Does it run imake or xmkmf?
<tuxmaniac> Yeah.. Successfully uploaded packages :)
<tuxmaniac> Nope
<tuxmaniac> bddebian: it did not run.. I first did a simulation and then really uploaded then
<ajmitch> tuxmaniac: because you uploaded a binary package, not a source package
* Hobbsee wonders what imake actually is
<Hobbsee> maybe it was somethign else that i was thinking of...
<bddebian> Hobbsee: A PITA, that's what imake/xmkmf is :-)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> right
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: Evil
<Hobbsee> even more evil than checkinstall?
<ajmitch> almost
<Hobbsee> oh yeah, it was that that i was thinking of...
<Hobbsee> how does one change the file to use make instead?  change teh makefile or something?
<tuxmaniac> ajmitch: I have uploaded .orig also.. Is that enough?
<tuxmaniac> ajmitch: I mean when I gave dput.. It uploaded the changes, dsc,deb, .orig.tar
<tuxmaniac> ajmitch: Is that fine or something else to be done?
<Hobbsee> tuxmaniac: did it upload the .diff.gz?
<tuxmaniac> Sorry I missed it out
<tuxmaniac> Hobbsee: Yes it did :D
<Hobbsee> oh good
<ajmitch> tuxmaniac: no it's not ok, sorry\
<ajmitch> you need to build a source-only package
<ajmitch> eg debuild -S -sa
<tuxmaniac> Oh Thanks I do it right away
<tuxmaniac> ajmitch: Done!
<tuxmaniac> ajmitch: I upload it once again?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> make sure you upload the _source.changes file
<tuxmaniac> ajmitch: Again the previous problem of file already existent on the server comes :(
<ajmitch> try again, with dput -f
<tuxmaniac> ajmitch: Yeah Doing it!
<tuxmaniac> ajmitch: Danke :)
<tuxmaniac> ajmitch: Hey Connection Refused upload I guess!
<tuxmaniac> Sorry for disturbing you ajmitch
<ajmitch> what do you mean?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: likes being kept up all night, you know :P - he doesnt sleep, anyway
<ajmitch> shh
<tuxmaniac> Connection refused.. My network dropped.. :( Again I try to do a dput and same file already existing rror
<tuxmaniac> pops up
<ajmitch> which is different from the connection being refused
<ajmitch> I can clear it so you can try again
<tuxmaniac> Yeah pls.. :) Sorry yaar!
<ajmitch> try again please
<tuxmaniac> yeah uploading
* tuxmaniac is away: Off for Dinner! 
<ajmitch> night all
<bddebian> Later ajmitch
* tuxmaniac is back (gone 00:47:09)
<jpatrick> hi tuxmaniac
<tuxmaniac> jpatrick: Hi.. The thing got solved! Wrong Dput configuraton :)
<jpatrick> d'oh
<tuxmaniac> jpatrick: But my network is irritating me..
<tuxmaniac> jpatrick: Murphy's law!! Still unable to upload!
<bddebian> :-(
<jpatrick> I usually get that
<jpatrick> just that it doesn't go slooow, it just _stops_ entirely
<tuxmaniac> jpatrick: Exactly the problem!! :)
<tuxmaniac> jpatrick: Somebody has to clear the previous upload for me now! Hope ajmitch does not mind once again..  :)
<jpatrick> tuxmaniac: I could
<tuxmaniac> bddebian: U have any suggestion to automatically force! -f is _not_ working
<tuxmaniac> jpatrick: Nice if you can do it :)
<jpatrick> tuxmaniac: try now
<tuxmaniac> yeah thanks jpatrick
<jpatrick> no problem
<bddebian> tuxmaniac: I didn't know you hung out in #hurd too ;-)
<tuxmaniac> bddebian: A newbie there too.. Jus got impressed with its archtecture
<tuxmaniac> bddebian: A fan from yesterday!
<tuxmaniac> :)
<bddebian> :-)
<tuxmaniac> Done! Upload successful
<jpatrick> woohoo
<jpatrick> tuxmaniac: running revu-report as an added extra
<jpatrick> wow, lots of compile warnings
<tuxmaniac> jpatrick: Yes.. :) I tried to remove it.. Seems its an Upstream problem!
<jpatrick> tuxmaniac: done; http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2302
<tuxmaniac> jpatrick: Super! Thanks
<tuxmaniac> jpatrick: Seems there are lots of problems!
<Tonio_> hello all
<Gloubiboulga> hi Tonio_
<Tonio_> Gloubiboulga: you're trying the motu membership ?
<bddebian> Heya Tonio_
<Tonio_> hey bddebian
<LaserJock> hi bddebian and Tonio_
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<Tonio_> hey LaserJock ;)
<Gloubiboulga> Tonio_, yes :)
<Tonio_> Gloubiboulga: I'll be there to support you :)
<Gloubiboulga> merci Tonio_ :)
<Tonio_> de rien ;)
<Tonio_> Gloubiboulga: j'ai toujours aim l'ile aux enfants ;)
<Gloubiboulga> hh
<jpatrick> _ groovy
<phanatic> hey Gloubiboulga, that's great :) i'm sure you make it
<Gloubiboulga> phanatic, thanks, we'll see tomorrow...
<phanatic> i'll try to be there too as a silent supporter :)
<Gloubiboulga> thanks :)
<slomo_> cyberix: yes
<bddebian> Is there some way I can get 'apt-get build-dep foo' to continue even on errors?
* bddebian loves talking to himself
<ogra> ever thought about podcasting your monologues ? :P
<ogra> i guess a local repo in sources.list might do
<bddebian> ogra: What, of me talking to myself since no one answers me? :-)
<ogra> yep :)
<bddebian> This is why I'll never be a main uploader :'-(
* bddebian feels unloved again
<cyberix> slomo_: Great
* Mithrandir ruffles bddebian 
* bddebian crosses his fingers and starts a scilab build
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> I'll cross mine too
<jpatrick> LaserJock: ping
<LaserJock> jpatrick: hi
<jpatrick> did you get my patch?
<bddebian> scilab SUCKS! :-)
<LaserJock> jpatrick: yep
<slomo_> sivang: ping?
<LaserJock> jpatrick: but I haven't applied it yet.
<sivang> slomo_: pong
<slomo_> sivang: i have some time now for your package :)
<sivang> slomo_: cool, lt me see if I can put an archive online somewhere with fixes
<slomo_> sivang: ask siretart for a revu login and upload it there ;)
<sivang> slomo_: at the momnet it would be faster for me to put it on one of the servers I'm using :-)
<crimsun> bddebian: url to packages in which you're getting that error on autoconf
<bddebian> crimsun: It's scilab
<bddebian> crimsun: But I'm using the newer .1 release from Debian
<crimsun> do you plan to/have you file/d a uvfe for it?
<sivang> slomo_: there some small fixes (yet) I want to do before the initial upload, until when will you be available ?
<slomo_> sivang: 2 1/2 hours from now at least
<bddebian> crimsun: Do I need one for a release add for a bugfix?  I thought that was only for API/ABI changes?
<sivang> slomo_: okay, if I can pull the fix in an hour, I'll do that, if not then just ping you back to review and upload if appropriate
<crimsun> bddebian: no, it's more like an informative clue for me, since I need to prioritise my pbuilder attempts
<bddebian> crimsun: Well just give me a hint, you don't have to build it :-)
<crimsun> I can't give you a hint without trying it, but I'll attempt Debian's .1 in a few minutes as soon as I leave this meeting.
<sivang> slomo_: okay, let's do it this way, I've put the fixed archive online, http://mercury.linuxguru.net/~sivan/HUB
<hub> ?
<sivang> slomo_: see if this is okay, if so, I'll then work on the fix I wanted to have and then ping you to do the actual upload given I do not touch the packaging anymore.
<slomo_> sivang: as it's a native package don't use a x.y.z-a version... but only x.y.z
<sivang> hub: oh, sorry again.
<ogra> sivang, you should consider renamming the abbreviation :)
<sivang> ogra: yes :)
<sivang> slomo_: apart for that, everything's okay with respect to your other comments?
<slomo_> sivang: no... i found new issues ;) shall i write them here or by mail?
<sivang> slomo_: email plesae
* sivang sighs
<slomo_> sivang: address?
<sivang> slomo_: sivan@ubuntu.com
<ogra> why dont you guys just use revu ?
<slomo_> ogra: don't ask me but sivang ;)
<LaserJock> ogra: I was wondering that myself
* sivang searches for the revu instructions.
<sivang> I need to send a signed email somewhere right?
<sivang> slomo_: I recall now I forgot to take off the shlibs:Depends
<slomo_> sivang: yes, but that's not the only problem ;)
<ogra> sivang, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU
<sivang> hmm, ajmitch already added a while ago
<sivang> ogra: how di I put my package there if I'm already in the keyring?
* sivang recalls he already set up REVU acces IHRR
<sivang> ogra: thanks, this page has all instructions
<ogra> sivang dput
<ogra> :)
<sivang> weird,
<sivang> I already have a revu entry in dput.cf
<sivang> does it come like this when you install dput ? :)
<ogra> yep iirc
<sivang> nice
<crimsun> bddebian: ping
<bddebian> Yo
<bddebian> So, what are we doing with "fixed in Dapper" bugs?
<crimsun> bddebian: are you syncing?
<bddebian> crimsun: No, I'm adding a desktop file and cping X11_defaults/scilab.xpm to usr/share/pixmaps
<crimsun> bug #(s)?
<bddebian> Bug #3496
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 3496 in scilab "scilab installer bad path and fonts" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/3496
<crimsun> ok, maybe I'm missing something, but there's no attachment with a desktop file
<slomo_> sivang: review finished :)
<crimsun> bddebian: does 14.1 actually address the font issue(s)? Nothing in the changelog mentions it.
<crimsun> bddebian: 14.1 pbuilds fine here (ia32)
<bddebian> crimsun: No, I am adding the desktop file myself.  That's my specialty ;-P  I know it builds fine but it's picking up /X11R6/ dirs from configure, which is why I wanted to try an autoconf, etc
<bddebian> Try to run it
<crimsun> ah, ok.
<sivang> slomo_: yes, got your email. Funny I was sure I moved all needd to Binary-Indep :)
* sivang hopes for a last nitpicking cycle
<sivang> :)
<slomo_> sivang: huh? i didn't say something about binary-indep, that was ok :)
<sivang> slomo_: hmm, after workday tiredness then :
<sivang> :)
<sivang> slomo_: sorry for whining
<sivang> slomo_: btw, how do you pick al those errors so quick and with detail? :)
<slomo_> sivang: np :) hmm, you get used to find such problems fast after reviewing many packages
<bddebian> I can't reproduce Bug #33528   Close it as Fixed in Dapper?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 33528 in gbib "starting gbib produces segmentation fault in breezy" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/33528
<sivang> slomo_: how do you set up debuild to sign your package at end of debuil -S ?
<uniq> i think it's default behaviour if you have gnupg installed? -us -uc tells it to not sign.
<slomo_> sivang: no idea, i use dpkg-buildpackage... and it does this by default unless you specify -uc or -us
<sivang> slomo_: okay, thanks
<sivang> slomo_: debuild is basically a frontend to dpkg-buildpackage IIRC
<uniq> sivang: you can actually set the options in /etc/devscripts.conf
<uniq> i have not done it, and it sill works.. though.
<sivang> uniq: yes worked for me now, I guess it just needed to sense that the secring is there
<sivang> uniq: I just plugged the usbdisk with my keys, so may it be it needed time to open the secring file
<sivang> weird, in any case.
<sivang> but works now
<sivang> slomo_: I upload to revu just to see if it works, it does not include the changes required yet.
<bddebian> crimsun: Are you playing with this or did I lose you? :-)
<crimsun> my machine is very slow, dpkg is just finishing postinst
<bddebian> Ahh :-)
<sivang> slomo_: is the {python:Depends} like shlibs:Depends for python programs?
<crimsun> bddebian: the bug report is a red herring for scilab
<bddebian> ??
<slomo_> sivang: not really... only the python dependencies are put in there... the dependencies on python, not the dependencies on any python packages like python-gtk2
<crimsun> bddebian: pvm is a Recommends; the font issue is due to defoma
<bddebian> Did you run it?
<crimsun> yes
<bddebian> You get that weird ass font?
<crimsun> yes, it's due to defoma
<bddebian> OK, fine but how do I fix it? :-)
<crimsun> that bug report is misfiled against scilab
<sivang> slomo_: is there something like the shlibs for python? I would envisage a subtvar that would take care of adding the required dependenies by going over my import statement sin the code :-)
<bddebian> Ooohhh
<bddebian> Hmm
<seamus-laptop> anyone from laptop testing here?
<bddebian> What about the weird pvm3 path error on startup?
<tseng> seamus-laptop: #ubuntu-laptop
<seamus-laptop> gratzi
<crimsun> bddebian: that's not an error, that's just informative. pvm is a Recommends, so using apt-get doesn't install it by default. It's harmless.
<slomo_> sivang: unfortunately not (afaik) as not all import are a depenendency... think of (try: import foo except: try: import bar except pass)
<bddebian> Hmm
* bddebian wonders if it's built with --with-pvm, why it's just a recommends
<sivang> slomo_: ah right
<crimsun> bddebian: well if you feel strongly, promote pvm to Depends :)
<bddebian> I don't know, I'm dumb, remember
<crimsun> then flip a coin
<crimsun> heads don't promote, tails promote
<bddebian> So what do I do about defoma?  It's in main :-(
<sivang> bddebian: you broke defoma ? ;-)
<crimsun> reassign, wash your hands like Pilate, and find another boog. :)
<bddebian> Bah, I need to fix stuff.. :-(
* sivang hugs bddebian and cheers him up
<bddebian> crimsun: BTW, how did you determine that it's defoma?
<LaserJock> bddebian: as long as it disappers from my list ;-)
* bddebian pokes LaserJock in the eye ;-P
<LaserJock> bddebian: maybe you should file a bug upstream about pvm, if there isn't one already
<crimsun> bddebian: try removing the Eastern ttf* packages
<bddebian> crimsun: ??
<bddebian> Oh
<bddebian> But where is it getting it from?
<bddebian> Grr, maybe I should just hang my hat
<crimsun> whatever's injecting it into defoma (pango?)
<bddebian> So, no one ever answered me about what to do about Bug #33528
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 33528 in gbib "starting gbib produces segmentation fault in breezy" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/33528
<crimsun> close it
<crimsun> I'm facing a similar bug in vlc RE: matroska files crashing it
<bddebian> Close it as Fix Release "Fixed in Dapper" ?
<bddebian> +d
<crimsun> no, reject it. Fixed means it was actually fixed; that can't be confirmed here.
<LaserJock> bddebian: yeah, upstream was never really able to fully confirm it, and I couldn't either for dapper
<bddebian> But rejecting it just means we aren't going to fix it doesn't it?
<LaserJock> it closes it as rejected
* bddebian runs towards the cliff face
<LaserJock> don't do it!
<crimsun> it can imply that, yes, but how can you fix it if you don't know what's wrong? It's simply not possible to fix it.
<bddebian> LaserJock: I know but as a user, I would take that as "We ain't gonna fix it" :)
<LaserJock> bddebian: yes, we ain't gonna fix something that we can't confirm happens
<crimsun> if you're really at odds with rejecting it, mark it Needs Info
<crimsun> (granted it'll probably stay in "Needs Info" indefinitely in that case ;)
<LaserJock> but Debian has basically closed the same bug
<crimsun> yes, Steve was nice enough to say "we can't reproduce it [so I'm rejecting it] "
<bddebian> Hmm, what about the scilab bugs then
<sivang> slomo_: wow! http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/upbackup-0604241620/lintian
<sivang> slomo_: cool
<sivang> slomo_: almost as having a private slomo :)
<bddebian> I guess I'll reject that one too
<sivang> ogra: I'm sold on revu for now on
<crimsun> I wouldn't; I'd reassign it to either pango or defoma
<slomo_> sivang: but it only lists some very common bugs ;) about the second one... ignore it... but debhelper in B-D and the other stuff in B-D-I
<bddebian> crimsun: Sorry, I was talking about the dies on startup bug.  I'll re-assign the font problem to defoma
<LaserJock> bddebian: it still does that?
<crimsun> bddebian: it doesn't die on startup.
<crimsun> bddebian: what appears in the console is simply an informative message
<sivang> slomo_: second one on the revu/linda output?
<slomo_> sivang: lintian output... about the build-depends
<bddebian> crimsun: I know, I rejected that one :-)
<bddebian> Sheesh :-)
<sivang> slomo_: okay, what about the -stamps ?
<slomo_> sivang: stamps?
<sivang> slomo_: I see they do something, like dh_testdir and then touch the stamps so they won't get created on subsequent calls
<sivang> slomo_: is it safe to remove them?
<slomo_> sivang: "safe" but not very wise ;) but you can remove the complete configure* targets because you don't do anything in there
<sivang> slomo_: true, why "unwise" ?
<slomo_> sivang: because they save time :)
<sivang> slomo_: but you told me to remove them :)
* sivang is confused
<slomo_> sivang: it told you?
<sivang> slomo_: no, in your email to me:
<sivang> - remove the configure/configure-stamp targets... they don't do anything
<slomo_> yes... configure and configure-stamp, not all -stamp targets :)
<sivang> slomo_: okay, so leave the configure one only.
<slomo_> sivang: ?
<sivang> slomo_: yes?
<sivang> slomo_: sorry, I mean, remove all the configure ones, leave build-stamps :)
<slomo_> sivang: ok :)
<dholbach> good night motus :)
<LaserJock> cya dholbach
<slomo_> gn8 daniel :)
<dholbach> night you two
<sivang> slomo_: hrm I realize now I have no idea why arch build is there
<sivang> slomo_: or what it does
<slomo_> sivang: ok =)
<slomo_> sivang: then remove it ;)
<sivang> slomo_: say, if I later want to add a C binary to my package, how easy would it be given that I am making this package Build-INdep mostly?
<slomo_> sivang: fairly easy... but why would you want to do that? ;)
<sivang> slomo_: I may to add some C magic to detect free space on multi sessions CDs and non empty ones, as currently hal only reports the size of the allocated volume on a CD
<sivang> slomo_: so I have realiable reading only for empty CDs
<sivang> slomo_: (coreutils stat is used for other disk devices)
<slomo_> sivang: there should be hal magic for all of this imho
<slomo_> sivang: so better get this fixed there :)
<sivang> slomo_: already checked upstream, this is as good as it gets.
<sivang> slomo_: they told me to look for / implement my own methods to check this specific free space
<slomo_> sivang: do you call cdrecord directly?
<sivang> slomo_: as adding this to hal would mean they'd need to probe devices every once in a while
<sivang> slomo_: yes, why?
<slomo_> sivang: it can tell you this too iirc :)
<sivang> slomo_: I sa something about cdrdao that can do this, not sure about cdrecord. I will check
<sivang> slomo_: if you happen to run by it, please let me know or email me :
<sivang> :)
<sivang> argh, latency is killing me
<slomo_> sivang: i'll take a look tomorrow... but why don't you use nautilus-burn?
<sivang> slomo_: well, I wanted it to be usable from nautils-cd-burn and libn-c-b is not installed
<sivang> slomo_: to have as little dependencies a sI can
<sivang> it works pretty good, only needs some more error trapping basically.
<slomo_> ok
<sivang> slomo_: anyway, for the last change - must I remove all the shebangs?
<sivang> slomo_: ah never mind, removed it from everything that is not menat to be run directly :)
<slomo_> cool
<slomo_> and everything else should be executable
<sivang> slomo_: hmm, I wonder how I can do that in the existing package, and not intefere with the "scripts" directive of the dist-utils
<sivang> slomo_: ny idea? mos tof the stuff installed under the package UPBackup in site-packages is to be executed reictly, but how do I make them executable?
<slomo_> sivang: make it after the python ./setup.py --install
<sivang> slomo_: using install -m ?
<slomo_> sivang: using chmod +x ;) whatever you like more
<sivang> slomo_: maybe there is a way to do that in the MANIFEST.in file?
<slomo_> maybe... no idea about python's distutil stuff ;)
<sivang> slomo_: where can I assume the files to be for the chmod +x thingy? debian/tmp/pkg-name-ver ?
<slomo_> debian/tmp/usr/lib/python2.4/....
<sivang> slomo_: ah, okay, maybe I can use $(CURDIR) as it's used here:
<sivang> 	python ./setup.py install --prefix=$(CURDIR)/debian/upbackup/usr
<sivang> although I'm not entirely sure about why it's /usr ..
<slomo_> where would you want it to be? ;)
<sivang> I just copied this bit from gdebi :)
* sivang checks gdebi to get reminded
#ubuntu-motu 2006-04-30
<sivang> slomo_: still there? I hope I'm not missing you again another day..
<slomo_> sivang: still there, yes ;)
<slomo_> but not for long
<sivang> :-/
* sivang is slow
<slomo_> don't worry :) i'll take a look at your package... and then go to bed :)
<sivang> slomo_: well, I don't want to keep you up
<sivang> slomo_: if we don't finish before you need to go to bed, just sign off, I'll ping you again tomorrow
* sivang tries to understand the relation between --prefix in disutils and where the package is getting builu
<sivang> built, eeven
<sivang> slomo_: hmm, weird, I suggenly get this when binary building :
<sivang> slomo_: Died at /usr/bin/intltool-merge line 1069.
<sivang> slomo_: for both desktop files
<slomo_> sivang: nice... what did you do?
<sivang> slomo_: well, only what you said :)
<slomo_> sivang: ok, weird :) could you upload it somewhere?
<sivang> I'm trying to run it manually now, maybe I will get a prope error message
<sivang> slomo_: sure, to revu
<sivang> sec
<sivang> just need to finish the "making scripts executable bit"
<sivang> slomo_: okay, building source and uploaidng
<sivang> slomo_: done, it's on revu
<slomo_> sivang: url? :)
<sivang> slomo_: well, I need ot wait 5 minute for it to come up there, and then I will send you
<slomo_> ok
* sivang waits impatiently for REVU to process
<sivang> slomo_: see f you can check the intl tool die out please ;-) ?
<sivang> slomo_: this is what intl tool tried to do when diying -     open OUTPUT, ">${OUTFILE}" or die;
<sivang> slomo_: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2304
<slomo_> sivang: thanks... hm, i'll take a look tomorrow, ok? or is it really urgent?
<sivang> slomo_: well, only if you can ack that the previous issue are okay and I'm only left at finding out that die out ? :)
* sivang would like ot have knowlege of what is still broken to be prepared for tomorrow
<slomo_> oh
<slomo_> hm
<slomo_> shouldn't python be in Build-Depends?
<slomo_> and you should only set the files executable that have the shebang ;)
<slomo_> not all .py files
<sivang> they all do
<sivang> in the backend dir
<sivang> each program makes sens to run on it's own
<sivang> the unit tests are differnet cmd line utils
<slomo_> ok
<slomo_> and please put python into Build-Depends
<sivang> ah, apart maybe for the __init__.py ...
<slomo_> it's required for clean
<sivang> how come ?
<sivang> (for clean, that is)
<slomo_> you call python in clean ;)
<sivang> but isn't depending on python-dev in -indep enough?
<slomo_> no... Build-Depends must contain everything that is needed for clean and binary-arch
<slomo_> Build-Depends-Indep everything additionally required for binary-indep
<sivang> ah...
<slomo_> did you remove the .bzr directories?
<sivang> yes
<sivang> I added it to a script I made to create the source
<slomo_> there's still the space missing for the coreutils Depends
<slomo_> hm why don't you use bzr export or similar? :)
<sivang> in the rules file?
<slomo_> coreutils in control
<slomo_> and bzr export for your create-source script
<sivang> fixed coreutils space
<sivang> fixed python build-depends
<slomo_> hm should be fine then
<sivang> slomo_: ah, I sometimes commit only after building a source and seeing it's good
<slomo_> but i'll take a closer look tomorrow :)
<sivang> okay :-) I didn't packaging something so siple can become such a project
* sivang wishesfor 48 hours a day
<slomo_> hehe
<slomo_> packaging can be much work :)
<sivang> well, I already had so much work in the coding itself,
<sivang> I thought this is going to be resting :)
<sivang> so I'm surprised
<sivang> slomo_: anyway, thank you for your help
<slomo_> np :) if you still have any questions feel free to ask... and i'll tell you tomorrow when something is still wrong with the package, otherwise get bddebian to look at it and upload :)
* sivang would open a chapmagne
<sivang> this seems a hard birth :)
<slomo_> well, your package was really good for the first time :)
<sivang> hehe, thanks. I followed and studied gdebi, and tried to make it best suited for upbackup, so I leanred from the best eventhough they made it a bit hackish due lack of time :)
<sivang> slomo_: so coreutils space and Python into build depends are the last two thing syou can remember fornow right?
<slomo_> yes
<sivang> okay, I'll upload a new version to revu so you could take a look tommorow morning
<slomo_> thanks :) and now i go to bed... good night :)
<sivang> night
<sivang> hmm, I wonder why when dputting i get "this key is not certified blah blah" for my own key ..
<sivang> anybody an idea?
<sivang> ah, never mind, night all
<bddebian> Heya gang
<jmg> hi all
<bddebian> Hello jmg
<ajmitch> afternoon
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<jmg> does dholback hang out here?
<jmg> bach*
<crimsun> yes, but he's asleep.
<jmg> crimsun: thanks
<LaserJock> dholbach is everywhere
* LaserJock looks around nervously ;-)
<bddebian> LaserJock: :-)
<jmg> everything is slow
<jmg> (all the *.ubuntu.com sites)
<bddebian> LP seems OK to me
<crimsun> seems a bit sluggish, but I can't tell whether that's due to current wifi traffic
<ajmitch> seems fast enough for me
<jmg> cant search ubuntu-devel from google groups :(
<bddebian> Gads, some of these bug reports are just funky
<crimsun> jmg: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ubuntu.devel
<crimsun> if you think it's bad now, just wait til dapper releases
<crimsun> we're going to have loads of fun
<bddebian> Why, our job it done after release ;-P
<chillywilly> hi
<bddebian> Heya chillywilly
<crimsun> if you don't work with/aren't upstream, sure ;)
<bddebian> crimsun: I'm nobody :-)
<chillywilly> bddebian: you're somebody to me :)
<bddebian> chillywilly: Aww, thanks d00d :-)
* jmg updates wiki for xen on dapper
* jmg heads up the road for some food
<bddebian> Egads, vnc4 is 26 Mb
<ajmitch> sure, it probably has a bunch of xfree86 source in it
<trappist> if I attach a debdiff to a bug in a universe package, I can assign it to motu-reviewers?
<bddebian> trappist: Sure
<trappist> ossum.  and that's motu-reviewers@tauware.de ?
<jmg> why cant i edit a spec on lp? says permission denied
<bddebian> A spec?
<jmg> bddebian: specifications
<bddebian> jmg: I know what spec means, I didn't get the context for LP :-)
<bddebian> ajmitch: Is vnc4 unfixable?
<jmg> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/xen-enabled-kernel
<bddebian> Ohh
<bddebian> Heya Hobbsee
<jmg> heh, rename is disabled.
* Hobbsee waves to bddebian 
* StevenK jumps on Hobbsee.
* Hobbsee retaliates, and bashes StevenK up repeatedly :P
<StevenK> That took some doing.
<Hobbsee> hehe
<StevenK> bddebian: vnc4 is *hard* to fix.
<Tm_T> bashing, wheee!
<Tm_T> me too, me too!
<StevenK> bddebian: It contains parts of XFree86 in its source tree.
<bddebian> StevenK: OK thx, I'll assign it to ajmitch then ;-P
<StevenK> bddebian: I spent the better part of two hours looking at it, and gave up in disgust.
<Hobbsee> haha...ajmitch will love that...
* StevenK ponders asking for a UVF exception for pocketpc-sdk
<StevenK> I don't like my chances, though.
<bddebian> I looked at that one.  Didn't touch it :-)
<nictuku> hi I have made a patch for bug #41123 should I send it to revu?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 41123 in smart "wrong default channel for dapper " [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41123
<nictuku> I mean, send the updated package
<bddebian> nictuku: I would prefer the patch on LP, but that's just my worthless personal opinion :-)
<StevenK> bddebian: Well, I'm going to try a rebuild, and see what that does.
<nictuku> should I update the changlog too?
<bddebian> nictuku: Yes
<nictuku> ok, done, sent the patch to LP. who should I talk to to merge that? :-)
<nictuku> mvo?
<StevenK> Someone who to can upload to universe? :-)
<nictuku> motu's, please consider merging this. smartpm is cool and deserves working default settings :-)
<bddebian> nictuku: If it's a universe packages, I'll try to take a look after fceu finishes building
<nictuku> bddebian, thank you
<nictuku> yes it's a universe package
<bddebian> I'm here to serve! :-)
* StevenK looks for MOTU UVF docs.
<bddebian> Even though crimsun hates me ;-P
<Hobbsee> hehe...poor bddebian
<Hobbsee> StevenK: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2006-February/000545.html
<StevenK> Hobbsee: I found the wiki page about one minute ago. :-P
* StevenK is typing out a bug report.
<Hobbsee> hehe
<bddebian> nictuku: Trying now
<bddebian> OK fceu sucks
<jmg> heh
<bddebian> OK, you folks are killing my Morrowind time
<bddebian> nictuku: Uploaded
<nictuku> :-) nice!
<bddebian> nictuku: I have marked the bug as Fix Committed.  Watch for it and close the bug as Fix Released.  Thanks!
* ajmitch returns
<bddebian> uh-oh
<jmg> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenEnabledKernelDraft <- thoughts, comments?
<nictuku> there is also bug #26601 but i don't know if the patch applies anymore
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 26601 in bittornado bittornado-gui "btdownloadgui crashes on startup" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/26601
<bddebian> nictuku: Oh, so now I'm your slave? ;-)
<ajmitch> bddebian: is that a change from normal?
<nictuku> bddebian, *you* volunteered to be a MOTU :-)
<bddebian> ajmitch: No :-)
<nictuku> I don't know how the repositories updates work, but now that the change was uploaded, when is it expected to be in the universe? Is there a daily update or so?
<imbrandon> heya guys who/where do i need to talk to about getting a fubuntu-desktop going, i've get a meta package and respitory foing right now but i'm talking aobut "officialy" ( fubuntu being fluxbox desktop for mini ram mini mhz machines )
<bddebian> nictuku: Should be there in a couple hours unless the buildds are extremely busy
<nictuku> bddebian, ah ok
<nictuku> jmg, /me likes that spec
<bddebian> nictuku: Can't touch that one, it's main.  Sorry
<nictuku> oh
<nictuku> forgot about that
<nictuku> sorry
<jmg> imbrandon: Add a spec for edgy on launchpad
<jmg> imbrandon: and discuss on ubuntu-devel
<imbrandon> ok thanks , just wasent sure what direction to head, that gives me a starting point
<nictuku> ahmm bddebian said "... and close the bug as Fix Released". It's not the time to close it yet, but I couldnt find the option for fixing/closing/changing status of a bug. do I have access to that?
<nictuku> should I use reportbug or malone is fine?
<bddebian> nictuku: Click on the bug title (package name) hyperlink
<bddebian> But I haven't gotten an accepted message yet either?? Hmm
<zakame> hi all
<imbrandon> evening
<zakame> hello imbrandon
<bddebian> Heya zakame
<zakame> hello bddebian
<bddebian> wb LaserJock :-)
<crimsun> bddebian: fix my bugz kthx
<bddebian> crimsun: Gimme some, I'll try
<crimsun> bddebian: take any of them with alsa-lib in the source package :-)
<bddebian> alsa.. Ugh :-)
<crimsun> :-)
<bddebian> Got an example?
<crimsun> you could probably search and find one faster than I can load Opera atm
<bddebian> OK
<bddebian> crimsun: Hey, want access to a faster box to build on?
<crimsun> is it ppc or amd64?
<bddebian> Oh, i386 sorry
<bddebian> If I keep at this Ubuntu thing, I may get one of each though ;-P
<crimsun> cool :)
<crimsun> I'm good on ia32, but thanks for offering :)
<bddebian> I used to have a bunch of PowerBooks but I gave them all away to GNU and Hurd folks :-(
<bddebian> I've got an old crappy Wallstreet II laying around here somewhere
<LaserJock> I've got a x86 mac but that doesn't help :(
* bddebian wants an RS/6000 :-)
<LaserJock> sometimes I wish I had ordered it a week before
<bddebian> crimsun: alsa stuff is going to be main though isn't it?
<crimsun> bddebian: yep
<bddebian> hmm
<crimsun> most of the alsa-lib ones are "thinking" options. I'm debating whether to propose a change to src:gnome-control-center so that if the normal name string selector (System> Preferences> Sound> default sound card) doesn't work, it will fall back to using the old Breezy-style index
<crimsun> (currently alsa-lib accepts both ``asoundconf list'' syntax and the old Breezy-style index)
<crimsun> granted the new Dapper way is much more flexible, but it fails on some serious cases, whereas the old Breezy-style index always works [but you run the risk of the id changing underneath you when you reboot] 
<bddebian> Ah, hmm
<crimsun> yeah, "lesser of two evils" deal. The trick is masking it from the user.
<bddebian> Hmm, kinda like voting here in the US ;-P
<crimsun> heh :p
<LaserJock> bddebian: what? people vote? ;-)
<bddebian> LaserJock: Well, not FOR anything, just against things :-)
<Lathiat> we all ok to upload atm?
<crimsun> yes
<bddebian> Hasn't stopped me. :-)
<ajmitch> nothing would stop you, bddebian
<Lathiat> guys - i did somethign before wher ei could view a diff
<Lathiat> highlighting changes at a sub-line level
<Lathiat> anyone knwo what it was? :)
<ajmitch> wdiff
<Lathiat> ah it is wdiff?
<Lathiat> that'l show an existing patch?
<ajmitch> when used in conjunction with other stuff, sure
<bddebian> ajmitch: :-)
<ajmitch> I think debdiff has an option to use wdiff
<Lathiat> hrm
<Lathiat> yeh
<Lathiat> maybe thats what i was doing
<Lathiat> is anyone else having issues getting to archive.u.c intermittenly?
<Lathiat> in fact i seeem to be having intermitten issues to the canonical stuff in general
<Lathiat> launchpad is haibitually timing out too
<bddebian> Bedtime for Bonzo.  Gnight folks
<keel> what is that took ubuntu so long until it got a functional installation/live cd? why was it not possible to simply import knoppix technology? (i am not complaining or rhetoricizing, i really am very much interested in understanding what makes such cooperation impossible in the world of open source.)
<franck> Hi all motu
<franck> I have two packages I made for mandriva and I'd like to see them included in ubuntu... How to go about that?
<franck> the packages do not need compile, it is php script and data
<franck> the packages name are tikiwiki and tikiwiki-mapdata they require php4-mapscript which is in universe
<crimsun> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUNewSoftware
<franck> crimsun: thanks.... tikiwiki is #5 most popular php application as per freshmeat ;)
<dholbach> good morning motu world
<Tm_T> dholbach: nooooooo
* Tm_T hides
<dholbach> Tm_T: the sun is shining... :-)
<Tm_T> dholbach: it is, been shining directly to my monitor last 4 hours
<dholbach> hmmmm nice
<Tm_T> indeed, can't really tell what happens in black spots =)
<ajmitch> hi dholbach, Tm_T
<dholbach> after my last appartment, I enjoy every ray of sun and didn't think of buying blinds yet
<dholbach> hi ajmitch
<Tm_T> ajmitch: heya
<Tm_T> dholbach: ugh, as soon as I get enough money for laptop and wifi I'll sit out there ircin'
<Tm_T> sun is down ~6h in day, but its dark only few night hours
<dholbach> haha! Tm_T: good thinking - it's just they're building in front of my house - so no summer love on the balcony yet
<Tm_T> and birds... start around 0430 :p
* StevenK prods dholbach to look at his UVF exception. :-P
<dholbach> StevenK: relax
<dholbach> I'm just going through the unread ones I have. This very moment.
<ajmitch> hello StevenK
<StevenK> dholbach: Heh
* StevenK waves to ajmitch
<dholbach> StevenK: is there a upstream changelog?
<dholbach> hm, doesnt seem so
<StevenK> dholbach: Not that I could see, but the upstream version doesn't change.
<dholbach> oh
<dholbach> then you don't need a uvf
<dholbach> ...exception
<StevenK> I don't?
<dholbach> no
<dholbach> UPSTREAM version freeze
<dholbach> not DEBIAN version freez :-p
* dholbach hugs StevenK
* StevenK grins shiftly.
<dholbach> just subscribe ubuntu-archive and get it synced
<StevenK> So, I just need to ask for a sync.
<dholbach> yeah
<dholbach> and thanks for working that out
<StevenK> dholbach: Sorry for a being a dill. :-)
<dholbach> StevenK: not at all
<ajmitch> StevenK: we won't make fun of you at all ;)
<StevenK> Heh
* StevenK trips over the make documentation.
* StevenK shivers at the warnings generated when building glpk.
<sivang> re all
* StevenK kicks make.
<highvoltage> make love, not war
<StevenK> It will always add -fPIC, or never add it. I can't force it to behave how I want it to.
<Tm_T> hummm
* Tm_T wonders what are chances to get Kopete 0.12 to dapper
* Hobbsee waves to the room
* ajmitch waves to the Hobbsee 
<adu> i tried Ubuntu Live today
<adu> :)
<adu> it was good
<Hobbsee> ooh fun!
<Mithrandir> hi Hobbsee
<Mithrandir> and hi ajmitch
<ajmitch> hello Mithrandir
* Hobbsee tickles Mithrandir and pokes him with a big stick, then runs away
<Hobbsee> beat you :P
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: I'm still not very tickly. :-)
<Hobbsee> :(
<freeflying> any administrator of revu around ?
<ajmitch> freeflying: what's wrong?
<freeflying> ajmitch: transfer error  due to the damn network here , :)
<Gloubiboulga> Hello
<ajmitch> freeflying: ok
<freeflying> ajmitch: please delete the diveintopython-zh on revu, I can not finish upload
<freeflying> ajmitch: thx
<ajmitch> done
* Mongoose is away: /_\ zzZzZZZZzz
<zakame> hi all
<Gloubiboulga> hey zakame :)
<zakame> hello Gloubiboulga
<zakame> what's up?
<Gloubiboulga> today's the day zakame, I'll apply for MOTUness at today's TB :)
<zakame> Gloubiboulga: woohoo! :D
<Gloubiboulga> :)
<zakame> Gloubiboulga: I'm not sure if I can attend the TB, I'll sure hope that $DEITY bless $you => $MOTU
<Gloubiboulga> hehe, thanks
<zakame> woohoo LP is down :D
<zakame> and so am I :D
<Lathiat> tseng: ping?
<tseng> Lathiat: pong
<sivang> slomo__: ping
<sivang> slomo__: did you have a chance to look at the freshened package?
<\sh> moins
<sivang> moins \sh , how are you?
<\sh> back at work :) and a burning brain already :)
<Gloubiboulga> hey \sh
<sivang> \sh: I heared Advil can do wonders :)
<\sh> sivang: :)) well, I just read a totally cluttered cfengine configuration :) no wonder that I'm feeling terrible :)
<ogra> \sh, just dont touch cfengine ... its evil
<ogra> :)
<ogra> use plain preseeding ;)
<\sh> ogra: too late...I'm integrating now cfengine into fai :)
<ogra> eeek
* ogra would use ubuntus kickstart implementation, its way cleaner :)
<ogra> ... and doesnt use cfengine :)
<sivang> \sh: heh
<\sh> ogra: my order is to install sles9/10 automatically via fai from a debian system :)
<ogra> *shudder*
<ogra> tell them to use a real OS then ;)
<sivang> ogra: I tried to tell people to do that, but they're still stuck with the notion that SLES/RHEL are enterprise grade distros.
<ogra> heh, yes
<\sh> tbh, the problem is, as long there is no oracle certification of debian or ubuntu, redhat and novell/suse will have the advantages
<\sh> that's why they are using suse here :(
<sivang> \sh: I hope Oracle certification will come promptly :-)
<\sh> sivang: which would be more then cool :)
* sivang nods
<ogra> its pretty likely
<sivang> indeed. I don't think they will let IBM be there alone for long time
<\sh> depends, what larry will do about his idea of buying an OS :)
<sivang> hehe
<sivang> \sh: this is not official anyways, no?
<sivang> (his idea of buying an OS etc)
<\sh> sivang: well, his mind is ill, so it can be real in no time... ;)
<sivang> hehehe
<sivang> \sh: he should go to another sail around the world and come back well :)
<sivang> do you guys have an idea how I can query programtically for file extension which are supposed to be media files, rather then including a hard coded list of those?
<sivang> (doing that from python, ofcourse)
<\sh> sivang: actually for Oracle an OS is the last coup they can do :)
<sivang> \sh: it's not like they're in trouble or something..no? why would they need a last coup ?
<\sh> because of MS and RedHat :) .... MS has everything from several OS to databases and application server business applications...redhat has an OS, with jboss also application server for business applications, oracle just has application server, databases and the business applications (like SAP)
<siretart> \sh: I'm quite comfortable and happy with cfengine2
<siretart> \sh: we used FAI in the past, but switched to d-i preseeding
<\sh> siretart: as I said, I don't install d-i based systems...I adjusted fai like this, that it can install any os I like :) right now, it's been a suse rollout :)
<\sh> configuration management will be included with cfengine2, directly into fai..so there is only one master console for this stuff
<\sh> means, all configuration which is application dependant, not os dependant
<siretart> \sh: sounds challanging :)
<zul> heylo
<vud1> hi moe_evil
<vud1> hi "r" u
<moe_evil> hi vud1 ;)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Hobbsee> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hi Hobbsee
* Hobbsee waits for all the netsplitted people to rejoin
<tritium> thanks for your reply, and for forwarding my bug report to the evolution team, dholbach!
<zakame> hi all
<tritium> hi zakame
<bddebian> Heya zakame, tritium
<zakame> hi tritium bddebian! :D
<VincentMX> is it hard to become packager?
<VincentMX> do i need a fast pc?
<tritium> hi bddebian!
<zakame> VincentMX: nope, all you need is LOTS of love :)
<VincentMX> i'ver got that
<zakame> coolness, I just helped track an LP bug :)
<bddebian> And time :-)
<VincentMX> only i don't hjave lots of people who love me as well
<trappist> if I assign a bug to the motu reviewers team, it's motu-reviewers@tauware.de in lp?
<bddebian> VincentMX: Well you'll fit in fine with me then :-)
<zakame> trappist: @lists.tauware.de iirc
<bddebian> I'm well disliked in #ubuntu-devel ;-P
<dholbach> just   'motu-reviewers'  is fine too
<VincentMX> ok
<zakame> lol
<trappist> dholbach: assignee not found if I do that
<viviersf> k right
<dholbach> motureviewers?
<viviersf> does any1 know if pykde works on dapper by any chance ?
<trappist> ok here, can any motus, especially those running amd64, have a look at bug 41207 ?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 41207 in libast "Eterm built against libast on amd64 has its buffer filled with garbage" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41207
<Hobbsee> what's the chances of make getting updated for dapper?  this is the changelog http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/cbngtd43.html
<StevenK> Hobbsee: What bugs does it fix?
<Hobbsee> StevenK: i'm not sure, it's being asked about in #ubuntu - i dont really understand much of the changelog..
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Um. It depends on the case made to the MOTU UVF peoples. I'm not seeing anything in the changelog that is jumping out at me and saying, "Hey! I should be fixed in Dapper."
<zul> Hobbsee: i was going to upload the patch tonight
<zakame> hmm, probably too late
<Hobbsee> zul: ah okay :)
<zakame> oh, great then :)
<zul> zakame: its an amd64 patch for libast
<godrik> hi
<godrik> i was asking on #ubuntu for an update of make 3.8.1b4 to make 3.8.1
<Hobbsee> godrik: yes, [23:57]  <zul> Hobbsee: i was going to upload the patch tonight
<godrik> it seems that the release fixs bugs about function included by all make 3.8.1* like eval function
<Hobbsee> just found out
<godrik> that cool! :)
<zakame> zul: oh I thought it was for make
<godrik> it is tonight in the USA ?
<zul> zakame: noope libast
<StevenK> godrik: No, it's the morning.
<godrik> so the new version of make will be included in 18H (more or less) ?
<zakame> zul: indeed
<zul> godrik: check on #ubuntu-devel i think make is in main
<StevenK> make is certainly in main.
<StevenK> However, I doubt it will get included in Dapper.
<zakame> Hobbsee: I don't see a make update coming, there isn't much bugs except malone 35570
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 35570 in make "SEGV in hash set code" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/35570
<zakame> 2 rejected, 2 fixrel
<StevenK> There are a lot of code changes, and nothing I can see that is a real show-stopper, including the eval functions.
<godrik> thank you
<StevenK> (I can't see that they've changed at all, given the changelog)
<zakame> besides, make is quite a heavy package, from a packager's perspective, since it has its own build system hand-crafted by Manoj
<tuxmaniac> heya bddebian
<bddebian> Hi tuxmaniac, how's it going?
<tuxmaniac> bddebian: Seems like the scilab bug has been transferred?
<bddebian> tuxmaniac: Yes, it's a pango/defoma issue
<StevenK> zakame: Heh, yes.
<zakame> StevenK: and, with the current goings-on, I think touching make wouldn't be such a good idea for now :/
<zakame> o-oh, speaking of that...
* ajmitch wouldn't suggest touching make after the beta release unless there were some critical reason to do so
<zakame> indeed
<tseng> I met manoj last year
<tseng> a real character
<bddebian> heh
<StevenK> I wouldn't suggest touching make unless one had to.
<StevenK> I was so tempted to put "make is my bitch" in a comment in debian/rules earlier today.
<Hobbsee> hehe
<zakame> I would, however, suggest looking into make, or any Manoj package, for that matter, for the learning experience :)
<zakame> lol
<StevenK> ifeq ($(DEB_HOST_ARCH), $(findstring $(DEB_HOST_ARCH),$(sort amd64 ia64)))
<bddebian> StevenK: :)
<bddebian> Heya highvoltage
<highvoltage> hi bddebian!
* StevenK buggers off to sleep
<highvoltage> how are things?
<Hobbsee> StevenK: sleep's overrated
<bddebian> Drowning man, you? :-)
<ajmitch> StevenK: sleep already?
<bddebian> crimsun: Did you say alsa-driver bugs are yours?
<crimsun> bddebian: generally, yes. Assign them to the linux-source-2.6.15 source package, no need to assign them to me directly since I'll be subscribed automatically.
<zakame> wb everyone
<slomo__> sivang: pong?
<bddebian> Heya slomo__
<slomo__> bddebian: hi :)
<zakame> gn8 all! :D
<bddebian> Ack, why do #u-devel hate me.. :'-(
<bddebian> s/do/does/
<slomo__> bddebian: nobody hates you
<bddebian> slomo__: Yes they do.  I'm an irritant :-)
<sivang> slomo__: hey :)
<sivang> bddebian: because you break stuff ? ;-)
<sivang> </humor>
<bddebian> :-)
* trappist chuckles at all the misspellings of dapper in bug reports
<trappist> before I say something in #-devel I try to formulate my statement carefully, run it by a few peers and proofreaders, ensure syntactical and political correctness, and have the statement blessed by a priest and a rabbi
<slomo__> trappist: as long as everybody understands what the reporter wants to say :)
<trappist> but if I wanna say something in #c I'm *really* careful.
<sivang> slomo__: had any chance to review my freshly uploaded package?
<slomo__> sivang: i'll do it after poking a bit at tomboy :) are will you be away in some minutes?
<bddebian> libguichan0 is broken?
<jpatrick> sivang: I could, if you want
<slomo__> sivang: what was the problem with intltool btw?
<bddebian> WTH is xlibmesa-gl-dev these days?
<bddebian> Oh, shoot, "lunch meeting" :-(
<sivang> slomo__: build does not exist at some points of the invocation
<sivang> slomo__: mvo confirmed it and it can be safely ignored
<sivang> jpatrick: feel free, search for upbackup on revu
<sivang> jpatrick: I will thank you
<sivang> slomo__: I will be away in some mintues, going to fetch something to eat and heading home
<slomo__> sivang: ok, you'll get my advocation later probably :)
<sivang> slomo__: well, when I reach home in about an hour I can ping you back
<slomo__> sivang: ok :)
<sivang> jpatrick: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2305
<sivang> slomo__: cool
<jpatrick> sivang: running revu-report now
<sivang> jpatrick: cool, thanks
<jpatrick> done now
<slomo__> sivang: ok, looking at it now :)
<slomo__> sivang: http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/upbackup-0604241910/upbackup_0.0.1_all.lintian please fix
<slomo__> dpkg-source: error: file upbackup_0.0.1.tar.gz has size 40190 instead of expected 40215
<slomo__> hmm
<sivang> huh?
<sivang> how come we didn't see this yesterday?
<slomo__> i guess you didn't run lintian on the binary package but only on the source package
<sivang> okay, I will remove the shebangs form those:
<sivang> : upbackup: script-not-executable ./usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/UPBackup/GUI/upbackup.py
<sivang> W: upbackup: script-not-executable ./usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/UPBackup/GUI/uprestore.py
<sivang> since they are not menat to be executed
<sivang> and will dechmod 755 __init__.py
<sivang> sorry, that is not chmod +x on __init__.py
<slomo__> let's hope the broken tarball is fixed after uploading the new version ;)
<sivang> oh, man, I can't upload to revu here, as I don't have my kkey
<sivang> I will have to go home and fix it from there, or are you willing to review outside to revu?
<slomo__> i don't really care ;)
<sivang> okay, so I will let you fetch it from the alternative location
<sivang> and will fix this now quickly , okay?
<slomo__> sure
<sivang> W: There is no debian/watch in this package. Although this is not compulsory, it helps maintaining the package properly.
<sivang> heh, it thinks this is not a native pakcage :)
<slomo__> sivang: linda?
<sivang> slomo__: not sure, it's in http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/upbackup-0604241910/revu-orig.report
<sivang> slomo__: anyway, new package is up
<sivang> slomo__: http://mercury.linuxguru.net/~sivan/HUB/
<slomo__> sivang: maybe the script creating it is broken... native pacakges can't include a watch file... it would be pointless
<hub> someone call me?
<slomo__> poor hub
<sivang> slomo__: at least the package name is upbackup, but in any case I need to change it to hubackup
<slomo__> sivang: so better change this before we upload anything ;)
<sivang> slomo__: hmm
* sivang is turned off by yet another change that will cost 2 more days
<sivang> ;-)
<sivang> hmm, actually probably only in contorl file no?
<slomo__> sivang: control and changelog, maybe copyright... and everywhere else in your sources,etc where you use the old name ;)
<sivang> slomo__: I am not going to chagne it in the sources, it will stay UPBackup as the python package name
<sivang> slomo__: maybe for next release :) it might have a different name anyhow
<sivang> slomo__: anyway, how do we stand wrt packaging quality now?
<slomo__> well
<slomo__> whiprush: upbackup: script-not-executable ./usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/UPBackup/GUI/upbackup.py
<slomo__> whiprush: upbackup: script-not-executable ./usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/UPBackup/GUI/uprestore.py
<slomo__> whiprush: upbackup: executable-not-elf-or-script ./usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/UPBackup/backend/__init__.py
<slomo__> damn, sorry whiprush :(
<slomo__> other than that the package is perfect
<sivang> slomo__: weird, I just removed all the shebang lines from up*.py
<sivang> slomo__: and do not chmod +x on *.py anymore, but rather
<sivang> ah!
<sivang> damn
<sivang> i bzr branch to buikld,
<sivang> and forgot to commit the changes
<slomo__> hehe
<sivang> slomo__: okay, try again ( I won't paste again to not bug h u b )
* sivang waits patiently
* slomo__ builds
<sivang> sladen: yay, you're back :)
<sivang> sladen: and muse as well :)
* sivang gets anxious
<sladen> broken terminal server and a fsck question
<sivang> sladen: ah, I see. so it just hung and waited for response
<sivang> poor muse
<sladen> yes, 4 days of hell for a few people
<jpatrick> hi sladen
<sivang> slomo__: okay, okay, what broke this time? :-) (taking by the time it takes you to respond)
<slomo__> sivang: oh, i was writing a mail and didn't notice that the build finished, sorry ;)
* sivang shivers :-)
* sivang waits for lots of errors and problems
<slomo__> sivang: the package is perfect now... upload this to revu later, ping me, get someone else to review and then it could be uploaded :)
<sivang> slomo__: yay thanks
<sivang> jpatrick: you're up?
<sivang> slomo__: must I go through revu before it uploaded to universe?
<jpatrick> sivang: ok, I'm on it
<slomo__> sivang: well... if we get this reviewed here by two motu it is fine too :)
<sivang> slomo__: cool :)
<sivang> slomo__ , jpatrick : anyway, I'm out , let me know if it got uploaded :)
<jpatrick> ok
<slomo__> jpatrick: ok so ping me when you finished the review :)
<slomo__> jpatrick: or just upload it
<sivang> ah , that's better
* sivang is comfortable in muse
<sivang> anyway, now out for real. laters dudes, and thanks alot!
<slomo__> sivang: wasn't this a dapper goal btw?
<slomo__> ok, bye bye :)
<jpatrick> slomo__: doing so
<jpatrick> slomo__, sivang: ok done
<slomo__> jpatrick: uploaded?
<jpatrick> yes
<slomo__> cool, thanks
<LaserJock> tuxmaniac: ping?
<tuxmaniac> LaserJock: pong
<LaserJock> tuxmaniac: what are you doing with xcircuit?
<tuxmaniac> LaserJock: Why? there had been a upstream release!
<tuxmaniac> LaserJock: And I upgraded the package!
<tuxmaniac> LaserJock: Why anything wrong?
<LaserJock> tuxmaniac: no, I wasn't mad, I just say bug #6266 was assigned to you and it was "in progress"
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 6266 in xcircuit "xcircuit version is old" [Normal,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/6266
<tuxmaniac> LaserJock: It has been uploaded
<tuxmaniac> LaserJock: To revu for review!
<LaserJock> ahh, ok. URL?
<tuxmaniac> LaserJock: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2302
<LaserJock> hi raphink
<raphink> hi
<caravena> raphink: hi
<G0SUB> LaserJock: hello!
<Tonio_> raphink: je viens finalement ;)
<raphink> quand ?
<LaserJock> G0SUB: hi!
<G0SUB> LaserJock: how are you?
<G0SUB> LaserJock: I am stuck up with exams here :(
<LaserJock> G0SUB: I'm busy, busy, busy :-)
<LaserJock> G0SUB: btw, I just added tuxmaniac to MOTUScience
<G0SUB> LaserJock: excellent. he is very enthusiastic about electronics packages
<bddebian> LaserJock: Nice
<LaserJock> unfortunately, I feel like I should remove a couple people though :/
<LaserJock> or something
<bddebian> LaserJock: Oh, you going to remove me are you? ;-P
<tritium> LaserJock: :(
<LaserJock> bddebian: I can't remove you. you haven't even joined :-)
<bddebian> :-)
<LaserJock> tritium: not you ;-)
<tritium> LaserJock: Oh, thanks ;)
<LaserJock> maybe I just need to get the other members pumped up
<G0SUB> LaserJock: then who? /me ?
* LaserJock goes into cheerleader mode
<LaserJock> G0SUB: no
<bddebian> Go LaserJock go
<LaserJock> the thing is, I was thinking of taking a Ubuntu leave of absence after today
<bddebian> WHAT
<bddebian> ??
<G0SUB> LaserJock: for how many days?
<LaserJock> well, my PhD has sort of been delayed and I have a lot to take care of at home
<bddebian> Stupid fscking shlib deps
<tuxmaniac> heya bddebian ! am back
<bddebian> :-)
<LaserJock> I think what I might do is go away from IRC for a bit
<tritium> LaserJock: nobody can blame a guy for trying to finish his degree on time :)
<LaserJock> tritium: well, the big problem is that my wife really needs to be in a different state, and I feel bad for holding her back as long as I am
<tritium> LaserJock: I can relate to that as well.  You need to do what's best for your wife and your self.
<LaserJock> anyway, IRC seems to be a real time sink for me. I like helping people out, but I just don't get any real work done
<LaserJock> so after today I'm going to try to minimize my IRC time and use email more for communication
<LaserJock> I think that should also get ubuntu-science a little more pumped up :-)
<bddebian> LaserJock: Bah, come on man, just drop out.. ;-P
<azeem> LaserJock: :-/
<LaserJock> bddebian: I've been doing this for 8 straight year (not even a summer off), it is too late to stop now :-)
<truz24> LaserJock, so if your wife needs to be in a different state, you're moving?
<bddebian> LaserJock: I'm kidding man
<LaserJock> truz24: no, I'm trying to finish my PhD as fast  as I can
<LaserJock> truz24: so then we can move
<truz24> You can't finish your phd in the new state?
<tritium> LaserJock: who's your advisor, so we can send him gifts?
<truz24> (not sure if phd credits are transferrable)
<LaserJock> truz24: well, that would take longer, I'd have to apply to a new university, etc.
<truz24> I see.
<truz24> So are you looking to teach?
<tritium> LaserJock: gifts of persuasion for him to let you finish up ;)
<LaserJock> anyway, I mean I'm not talking anything radical, but since UVF I've been doing about 10hr/day on Ubuntu
<LaserJock> cutting back to 1-2 hr/day would really help
<LaserJock> truz24: I'd like to
<truz24> UVF?
<LaserJock> January 19th I believe
<LaserJock> Upstream Version Freeze
<azeem> LaserJock: man, that's crazy
<tritium> LaserJock: how do you get _any_ research done?
<LaserJock> tritium: well, that's my point
<tritium> LaserJock: a year ago this time, I did the same thing you're contemplating so I could finish up.
<bddebian> LaserJock: And tritium hasn't been the same since ;-P
<tritium> bddebian: sadly, you're right :(
<bddebian> I can't talk.  I had to duck for a few months because of work so.. :-(
<LaserJock> well, now that the Ubuntu Packaging Guide is done it is a little better (although people are starting up for the Edgy docs already)
<LaserJock> but I've spread myself out so thin I can't get much of anything done
<LaserJock> without spending insane hours on it
* tritium encourages LaserJock to take the time he needs
* bddebian too
<LaserJock> so I'm going to try to schedule my Ubuntu work, something like (1 hr MOTUScience, 1/2 hr Doc team, 1/2 hr other stuff)
<LaserJock> that way, I can only spend 2 hrs/day on Ubuntu and I hope I can still get something done
<azeem> (unless you stay on irc...) ;)
<LaserJock> azeem: exactly
<LaserJock> I'm an Ubuntu-aholic for sure
<tritium> This is not good, having no alarms/notifications for calendar items on my Exchange account in evo...
* LaserJock slips away for a while to do some research, bbl
* tritium goes back to work...
<LaserJock> tuxmaniac: btw, ubuntu-science us subscribed to all the MOTUScience bugs and bug on any MOTUScience package
<LaserJock> s/us/is/
<tuxmaniac> LaserJock: Ok
<tuxmaniac> LaserJock: thanks.. I had a very tough time finding Science Packages related info! I should have joined the mailing list sometime back.. But neverthless not too late!
<bddebian> tuxmaniac: New sear from Debian is unbuildable :-(
<tuxmaniac> bddebian: Ugh! Maybe thats the reason why the package was not upgrade :P
<bddebian> tuxmaniac: Yeah.  Well libguichan0 was broken but I fixed that.  But we don't have new enough versions of libires and libvarconf :-(
<tuxmaniac> bddebian: How is such situations generally handled?
<bddebian> Need sync/merge requests for the new libires and libvarconf from Debian
<crimsun> if you need newer versions of libires and libvarconf to make sear buildable, make it so
<bddebian> crimsun: Me?
<crimsun> sure, why not?
<bddebian> What the hell am I the one man bugfixing machine?? ;-P
<crimsun> duh
<tuxmaniac> Ubuntu turns to the best when something is needed and bddebian is the best at this :) Cmon!
* tuxmaniac has got loads of work at office tomorrow + a conf with germany. 
* tuxmaniac leaving to sleep tight!
<tuxmaniac> Bye all
<crimsun> 'night
<bddebian> gah
<phanatic> hi people
<bddebian> Heya phanatic
<phanatic> hey bddebian, Gloubiboulga, raphink :)
<raphink> hi phanatic
<Gloubiboulga> hi phanatic :)
<sivang> re
<sivang> hi all
<sivang> slomo__: ping, was it uploaded?
<slomo__> yes
<sivang> yay!
* sivang hugs slomo__ , bddebian , jpatrick
* sivang hopes this will count for being approved to upload to universe sometime soon
<slomo__> :)
<sivang> ofcourse I need to work on more packages, and not only those I created ;-)
<bddebian> wb sivang
<sivang> hey bddebian
* sivang is happy upbackup if finally in the archive
<bddebian> sivang: Awesome, congrats
<sivang> bddebian: :)
<sivang> bddebian: I see you dealing with some merge bugs, are mergers still ongoing?
<bddebian> I don't know, I'm just trying to fix shit :-(
<wasabi> Heh. So I have no idea where buildd logs are now.
<ogra> wasabi, LP
<wasabi> Yeah, figured that.
<wasabi> It have a nifty-cool new name?
<wasabi> Found soyez...
<wasabi> Ahh found the launchpad-buildd
<wasabi> A hint woudl help. ;)
<wasabi> Wiki will help! yay
<LaserJock> wasabi: anybody can make a wiki page, *hint* ;-)
<bddebian> heh
<wasabi> Heh. Wiki points to lamonts stuff still.
<wasabi> oooh. Launchpad is neat.
<bddebian> Sometimes :-)
<LaserJock> I really wish they would do some documentation
<sivang> slomo__: can you plesae check if it's in the archive? I can't see it, and glaztor couldn't as well, maybe it didn't ge tout of new?
<slomo__> sivang: it's in NEW and will stay there until someone looks at it... and when it's accepted it will be on dapper-changes
<ogra> ususally Kamion and infinity process NEW ... infinity is ill
<LaserJock> my last NEW went through today and it took 4 days, if that is any help
<bddebian> What would we need for tuxmaniacs new xcirciut?  Is that a UVF exception?  It would be jumping Debian
<LaserJock> hi \sh
<\sh> moins motus :)
<sivang> slomo__: If I create a subsequent version with fixes, can it be uploaded then and be proccessed instead of the previous NEWd pkg?
<slomo__> sivang: yes
<bddebian> Heya \sh
<ryu> 11
<bddebian> 12
<LaserJock> 13, unlucky me :(
<bddebian> heh
<bddebian> I thought you were going to study or some shit? ;-P
<LaserJock> lunch break
<LaserJock> :-)
<\sh> good night motus :) cu tomorrow :)
<lifeless> morning all
<bddebian> Heya lifeless
<Gloubiboulga> congrats lifeless :)
<bddebian> ?
<ogra> bddebian, he's a MOTU since some minutes
<dholbach> congratulations new MOTUs!
<Gloubiboulga> thanks again dholbach :)
<bddebian> Oh shit, did I miss a meeting?
<bddebian> w00t, congrats lifeless
<bddebian> Gloubiboulga: You too?
<ogra> yep :)
<Gloubiboulga> bddebian, yes :)
<bddebian> Oh, awesome, congrats Gloubiboulga
<Gloubiboulga> thanks bddebian
<lifeless> bddebian: thanks
<lifeless> thanks Gloubiboulga and congrats too
<Gloubiboulga> thanks lifeless
<bddebian> Now, both of you get to work :-)
<Gloubiboulga> sir yes sir !
* bddebian breaks out the whip
<ajmitch> lifeless: good work
<jmg> revu is broken, i cant retreive my password
<jmg> once decrypted the password given by revu is "None"
<ajmitch> have you uploaded a package there yet that got accepted?
<jmg> ajmitch: no because i cant login :)
<ajmitch> um
<ajmitch> you upload first, and then login
<jmg> oh ok
<jmg> that's not clear at all, since there is no upload option on the front page
<ajmitch> that's because you don't upload anything via the web interface
<ajmitch> since that would be crackful
<ajmitch> sue dput
<bddebian> heh
<ajmitch> use dput, that is
<ajmitch> all on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
* ajmitch wanders off to do work-like stuff
<lifeless> ajmitch: :)
<bddebian> Later MOTUs
<dholbach> night guys
<jmg> uploading now
<jmg> gah
<jmg> missed him
#ubuntu-motu 2007-04-23
<grayman> anyone knows about any attempts to write a dpkg plugin for synaptic?
<geser> what should that be?
<grayman> so it will do what GDebi does
<geser> what do you mean? installing of local deb files?
<grayman> yes
<Flannel> grayman: Just double click the deb, it'll install
<grayman> i know how it installs
<Flannel> grayman: And it'll show up in synaptic afterwards, under "local or obsolete"
<grayman> meh that's not the point
<geser> synaptic is a gui for apt and not dpkg
<grayman> yes
<Flannel> grayman: then what is your point?
<grayman> to make synaptic to attempt and look for deps for local packages
<Flannel> doesn't double clicking a deb automatically try and resolve dependencies?
<grayman> no
<grayman> it just says that you don't have that stuff
<grayman> now go install it
<ScottK> That's all dpkg does too 
<grayman> yes
<grayman> but why not allow it to look for dependencies in the repo?
<geser> dpkg doesn't anything about repos
<Flannel> of course that's what dpkg would do, it doesn't know about the repos
<geser> that's apt job
<grayman> i know that
<grayman> just thought that a plugin that uses both could be nice
<geser> grayman: so you are looking for an automatic "apt-get -f install" after installing a local deb?
<Flannel> there's nothing saying that the GUI version for installing packages couldnt though
<grayman> i'm looking for automatic dep installation before the local is installed
<grayman> if the dependencies are available
<grayman> otherwise just reports what's missing
<geser> IMHO gdebi should warn or take care if deps are missing
<grayman> well, it just tells you that they're missing as far as i remember
<geser> could you open a bug against gdebi for it?
<grayman> i'll recheck and do
<Adri2000> grayman: gdebi's description says:
<Adri2000>  gdebi lets you install local deb packages resolving and installing
<Adri2000>  its dependencies.
<grayman> didn't notice it doing that
<grayman> i'm checking just in case
<joejaxx> does launchpad have rss feeds?
<grayman> ok it seems to do that. issue solved
<Laser_away> joejaxx: I don't think so
<joejaxx> that would be an interesting feature if it was
* joejaxx is running Gutsy :)
<Laser_away> joejaxx: yes, it would be nice
<Laser_away> although I find RSS annoying most of the time
<joejaxx> i think it would be good for package changes etc
<joejaxx> i think they already have it for the code browser
<joejaxx> so it is somewhat implemented
<Laser_away> how is it any better than subscribing to a package?
<Laser_away> or do you want new upload notices too
<joejaxx> well subscribing is just email
<Laser_away> yes
<Laser_away> but email > RSS ;-)
<joejaxx> with rss you can use it wherever rss is parsable
<joejaxx> :P
<joejaxx> Laser_away: :)
<Laser_away> joejaxx: you can parse email :-)
<joejaxx> Laser_away: well that is true
<joejaxx> ohh
<joejaxx> i have to setup the gutsy change stats
<joejaxx> i will be back later :)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<RAOF> Hey bddebian 
<bddebian> Hello RAOF
<defendguin> how come the monodevelop in feisty is way old?
<defendguin> this is horrible
<RAOF> Because it wasn't updated in Debian?
<RAOF> Because no-one requested a sync/merge from the newer Debian version?
<sharms> defendguin: 0.13.1 will probably be in gutsy, but exactly how were you involved with the process for you to have an opinion? I didn't see you on the mailing lists etc.
<defendguin> thats disappointing 
<sharms> its disappointing that you in no way contribute, but somehow feel that you are entitled to tell us what is horrible
<defendguin> sharms: sorry i just decided to pick up using monodevelop today
<defendguin> sharms: i apologize 
<sharms> At any rate, it will probably get synced to atleast http://packages.debian.org/unstable/devel/monodevelop
<RAOF> Also, if you care about it, come help package/update it :)
<sharms> defendguin: not saying things to be mean, just saying them because everyone needs help here 
<defendguin> i helped a lot with getting my laptop supported for this release.  now all the buttons work :-)
<sharms> gutsy wont be frozen for MOTU until august 16th
<sharms> so whatever the newest fun version is it should make it in 
<defendguin> i found someone who in etch 
<defendguin> you get what i mean
<zakame> good day
<bddebian> Heya zakame
<zakame> hi bddebian
<zakame> what to do today? :)
<TheMuso> Greetings from Wentworth Falls, located in the Blue Mountains!
<RAOF> Hey!  How is it?
<RAOF> Apart from the lack of super fast internet
<TheMuso> RAOF: Fine thanks. At least we are on 1500.
<RAOF> Eh, that's not too bad.
<RAOF> Although I'm liking my new 1Mb/sec rates :)
<TheMuso> RAOF: You're making me jellous.
<RAOF> 1500 is perfectly acceptable, though :)
<TheMuso> Yep it is.
<RAOF> Who wants to help me rewrite the TeXmacs gui in GTK2?
<TheMuso> We're with Internode.
* RAOF is with TPG, and was with aaNet.  aaNet were good.
<TheMuso> Wereas in no longer good?
<zakame> hi TheMuso
<RAOF> They didn't have ADSL2+.  At least, not in NSW.
<TheMuso> Right.
<TheMuso> zakame: Hey dude.
<TheMuso> Its really nice to be back online again/.
<TheMuso> RAOF: I would have been on sooner if Telstra hadn't screwed up at the exchange on Friday.
<RAOF> Ah, yes.  Telstra :(
<zakame> hehe
<TheMuso> Went so far as to kill our line for the whole weekend.
* TheMuso stares at the number of emails waiting to be read.
<LaserJock> TheMuso: hi!
<TheMuso> Heya LaserJock.
<ScottK> Welcome back TheMuso
<TheMuso> Hey ScottK./
<TheMuso> Glad to be back.
<ScottK> Is there any kind of Ubuntu policy about whether or not to include software in the repositories that is designed for abusive uses (e.g. spam ware)?
<LaserJock> ScottK: I don't know of any policy we have to exclude software
<bddebian> Sounds like something that should be excluded though :-)
<LaserJock> ScottK: but I think something that's obviously not good to put in our repos can be discussed and rejected
<LaserJock> TheMuso: I've got a question for you
<LaserJock> TheMuso: I'm working on a periodic table app doing various color schemes, but we're worried about accessibility
<LaserJock> TheMuso: do you know of anybody that would be willing to look over some screenshots or something and give some advice?
<ajmitch> fun discussion in #d-devel today
<ajmitch> about ubuntu & giving back patches
<ScottK> bddebian/Laserjock: The problem of course is one man's spamware is another man's useful mail tool.  Challenge/Response anti-spam solutions are one of my personal pet peeves and some entities (e.g. spamcop) consider them reportable spam.  It's actually in the archive already and broken.  If there's no clear policy, I just won't bother with fixing his bug and leave it at that.  Thanks.
<ScottK> ajmitch: Is it a good or a bad thing?
<LaserJock> ajmitch: yes, lots of that going around (planet.debian.org, etc.)
<LaserJock> ajmitch: I thought we kind of took care of that
<TheMuso> LaserJock: No, unfortunately I don't.
<TheMuso> LaserJock: You might want to ask heno.
<TheMuso> When he's around.
<bddebian> ajmitch: Oh yeah, now what?
<LaserJock> ScottK: if it's debatible then we can debate it on #ubuntu-motu
<LaserJock> TheMuso: ok, np. I just thought I'd ask
<bddebian> ScottK: Well I would say if it's already in we should fix it.  I freakin' hate broken packages :)
* ScottK would vote to remove it...
<ScottK> It's bug #109083 if anyone really wants to look into it.
<ubotu> Malone bug 109083 in tmda "No Python TMDA modules for python 2.5" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/109083
<ScottK> The problem, of course, is that almost all spammers forge the address they mail from and so these challenges almost all go to innocent third parties.
<ajmitch> LaserJock: not nearly enough
<LaserJock> ajmitch: patches.ubuntu.com being down isn't a help
<LaserJock> I thought all the patches went to PTS though
<bddebian> What's the discussion???
<ajmitch> patches!!!!
<bddebian> I see that, what about?
<bddebian> That we still aren't sending enough over?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: no, and the complaints are also along the lines of automated patches not having nearly enough context to be useful
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> but I really don't think other derivs are really doing better
<ajmitch> no, but few derivatives change things to the extent we do
<LaserJock> exactly
<ajmitch> either way, I feel like writing up something to identify who changed what
<LaserJock> what do you mean?
* bddebian just goes back to his hole
<ScottK> I can understand that it's hard to make use of some of the patches.  I've seen patches in BTS that are just the entire Ubuntu debdiff.
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> what else can we do with our scale?
<LaserJock> we can encourage people to push things upstream
<ajmitch> yes
<LaserJock> we can provide automatic debdiffs
<ajmitch> and we don't do that
<LaserJock> but we're doing those things already
<LaserJock> I just feel that certain people in Debian just want to give Ubuntu a hard time
<LaserJock> sure we aren't perfect
<LaserJock> nowhere close
<LaserJock> but geeze, give us a break
* ajmitch shuts up & goes back to work then
<LaserJock> ajmitch: well no, that's not what I meant
<LaserJock> if people have solutions I'm all ears
<LaserJock> we don't do great at pushing upstream
<LaserJock> but we don't do great at reviewing
<LaserJock> we don't do great at getting in RC fixes
<LaserJock> we've got a lot of things to improve on
* LaserJock shuts up and let's ajmitch get back to work ;-)
<ScottK> LaserJock: Just because people complain doesn't mean things suck.
* ScottK thinks the review process isn't especially broken.
<ScottK> (as an example)
<LaserJock> no, but usually there is an element of truth when people do complain
<ScottK> Sure, but nothing is perfect either.
<bddebian> Debian is
* ScottK got a little frustrated with the review process a few times during Feisty, but all in all I was very pleased as a new person showing up.
<bddebian> :-)
<ScottK> Hey, it must be, you can get Automatix for it.
<ScottK> ;-)
* bddebian dances aournd the room
* LaserJock hands himself the "Grumpy Old-timer" award and goes to walmart
<bddebian> Laser_away: Don't you know that Walmart is evil? :-)
<ScottK> Yeah, but we distribute software with actual bugs in it, so we've got no grounds to complain about someone else being evil ;-)
<Laser_away> bddebian: evil is in the sight of the wallet ;-)
<bddebian> Heh, no shit :)
<bddebian> Hrm, maybe I really should drop out.  I'm not even sure what the hell I bring to the table anymore.. :'-(
<ScottK> bddebian: Knock that off.
<ScottK> You were a big help to me.
<bddebian> ScottK: Thanks but I'm old and codgy and stuff :_)
<ScottK> Also, you've done a lot to keep revu up to date.  
<ScottK> As bad as it is, it'd be WAY worse without your efforts.
<ScottK> Plus, you don't get to whine to me that you're old.
<bddebian> Damn, I forgot about that :-)
<ScottK> My good news is that the REALLY hard new package I was planning on doing for Gutsy showed up in Debian NEW today!  Makes my life easier...
<bddebian> Heh, nice
<RAOF> Woot.
<ScottK> No IPT either, so it's not like I forgot to check.
<bddebian> ITP you mean? :)
<ScottK> Yeah.  If I could type, that's what I would have typed.
<Burgundavia> ScottK: which package?
<ScottK> DKIM-milter
<ScottK> DK-milter too, but I'm less interested in that.
<grayman> usplash seems to be troublesome
<RAOF> That reminds me...
* RAOF goes to file an ITP for Specto.
<TheMuso> When is the next UDS?
<ajmitch> boston, november
<bddebian> If I'm still around I could actually go to that one
<RAOF> Wake me when there's one in .au :P
<ajmitch> RAOF: already happened
<ajmitch> may 2005, ubuntu down under
<RAOF> I think that may have been a little too early for me.
<ajmitch> probably
<ajmitch> it was a fun trip though :)
<RAOF> Yeah, we're cool in .au :P
<ajmitch> it was my first time meeting many of the ubuntu developers
* ajmitch did end up disliking fish by the end of the week
<jml> too many jokes?
<ajmitch> no, too much of it at the hotel
<jml> oh
<RAOF> Hey Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> boo
<Hobbsee> hey RAOF!
<ajmitch> hello Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> hi ajmitch 
<Hobbsee> being trouble again?
<ajmitch> of course
<RAOF> Why do so many people want to use their Save dialog as a file manager?
<crimsun> err, you mean it's not?
<bddebian> heh
<bddebian> Kinda like Deleted Items mailbox.. :-)
<RAOF> Hm.  Someone said they kinda knew how to read Firefox backtraces a while back.
<RAOF> Would anyone like to help me decipher democracyplayer's gtkembedmoz backtraces?
<TheMuso> Heya Hobbsee, crimsun.
<Hobbsee> hi TheMuso, how'd the move go?
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Very well, but for Telstra being their usual stupid self.
<Hobbsee> heh.  that's normal
<TheMuso> Indeed.
* TheMuso begins the long trawl through email.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: send it to /dev/null
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: I wish I could. :)
<Hobbsee> :)
<crimsun> TheMuso: 'lo. Glad to read that the move went tolerably.
<phratman> I was running the Ubuntu Feisty Alternate Install CD again today with ks=<path to my configuration>. I have a post installation bash script that extracts a tar to /target. However, an error comes up as the last file scrolls past on the screen: "bad number."
<phratman> I know it's not a tar error because I extracted the tar on another machine and echo $? returned 0.
<LaserJock> ajmitch: ping
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: consider yourself punged.
<LaserJock> "punged"?
<LaserJock> must be an AU term ;-)
<Hobbsee> haha :P
* Hobbsee may have made it up
<LaserJock> and how are you this evening Ms. Hobbs?
<bddebian> GNight folks
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: been replying on the forums again
<RAOF> Night bddebian 
<TheMuso> When does uds in savilla happen?
* TheMuso is a little out of touch.
<LaserJock> starts the 6th I think
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: so I see ;-)
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: elky and i leave on the 3rd
<Hobbsee> starts on the 6th
<Hobbsee> iirc
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: *grin*
<TheMuso> cool.
<LaserJock> I'm leaving on the 1st
<LaserJock> to get to UES on the 3rd
<crimsun> I expect Great Things out of this group going to UDS.
<Hobbsee> like what?
<crimsun> a pony, for starters.
<RAOF> One Pony Per Child?
<LaserJock> crimsun: we could expect more if you were coming along?
<Hobbsee> haha
<ajmitch> LaserJock: pong
<LaserJock> RAOF: excellent
<LaserJock> ajmitch: either way, I feel like writing up something to identify who changed what
<ajmitch> LaserJock: yes?
<LaserJock> I'm still waiting :-)
<ajmitch> keep waiting
<LaserJock> what do you mean by "identify who changed what"?
* ajmitch is not going to magically produce something 
<ajmitch> identify who made the last upload of one of the ~1500 packages in universe that have an *ubuntu* version
<ajmitch> it was an idea, and a bad one
<LaserJock> hmm, and we could group them by person
<LaserJock> hmmm
<LaserJock> or maybe more interesting
<LaserJock> we could group them by Origina-Maintainer:
<LaserJock> *Original
<LaserJock> so a DD could find out who's been messing around with their package
<ajmitch> if you wish
<LaserJock> well, do you think that'd be interesting?
<ajmitch> might be
<ajmitch> it's more or less what I had in mind
<ajmitch> it'll probably just get ignored like most lists
<LaserJock> well, I'm starting to think that one of the biggest problems we have in MOTU (perhaps Ubuntu in general when it comes to packages) is information
<LaserJock> or lack thereof
<LaserJock> I think we need more of your lists
<LaserJock> we should have a collection of pages
<LaserJock> and make them pretty and nice
<LaserJock> with comment fields ;-)
<ajmitch> :P
* ajmitch would think that the issue is more lack of people with motivation than yet more lists
<LaserJock> I think your RC list was one of the best things we did for Feisty
<ajmitch> didn't seem to have much effect
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> I think we need to work on them a little
<LaserJock> make them a bit more Hopeful friendly perhaps
<LaserJock> but I *think* more people will come if we have clear lists of things to do
<crimsun> well, I should have done more with it, certainly
<Hobbsee> meh.  forum crack
<RAOF> Particularly if the lists of things to do come with instructions as to how to do them :)
<crimsun> by the time I got to a breathing point, it was 2 weeks before release
<LaserJock> RAOF: exactly
<Hobbsee> we've got new people coming in at the moment, but dont have the documentation to really help
<LaserJock> we need what to do as well as how to do
<RAOF> I looked at some of those RC bugs (fuse and texmacs, particularly), and they didn't seem to be bugs in ubuntu.
<ajmitch> crimsun: sure, I did the list, filed a few syncs & left it
<ajmitch> RAOF: plenty of them were
<LaserJock> we need to have a "done" checkmark
<ajmitch> lots of things for me to do
<LaserJock> well, we should all get behind it
<LaserJock> bzr branch and then have stuff running on tiber, as much as we can
<LaserJock> granted your RC list isn't great I guess because you have to have a local copy of BTS
<LaserJock> s/great/great for that/
<ajmitch> yeah
* ajmitch is going to walk home, back in ~15min
* Hobbsee has found something wise off the forums...
<RAOF> Please share such hard won wisdom :)
* LaserJock cringes
<Hobbsee> http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=2069967&postcount=32
<imbrandon> moins all
<Hobbsee> hi imbrandon 
<imbrandon> heya Hobbsee 
<LaserJock> hi imbrandon 
<imbrandon> LaserJock!
<superm1> hey imbrandon 
<imbrandon> hey i have a question , i have a cupple of packages that FTBFS from BREEZY! on, and each release i get an email telling me so, they have been superceeded like j2se 1.4 , etc
<imbrandon> wtf is up with that
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: that is a perl of wisdom there
<RAOF> Yeah, pretty good.
* RAOF never even *enters* that part of the forums
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: indeed.
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: hopefully it stops, as breezy is finished?
<Hobbsee> RAOF: neither do i - that was a direct link
<LaserJock> hmm, so in 2 days I've managed to get a 12 memeber ubuntu-tex team
<Hobbsee> nice!
<LaserJock> what remains to be seen is if it manages to do anything
<jussi01> nice work LaserJock
<ajmitch> ok, home
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, well its trying to rebuild them each release
<imbrandon> so breezy eol wont stop it
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: ahh
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: request a removal
<Hobbsee> ?
<imbrandon> yea thats probably what i'm gonna have to do
<superm1> imbrandon, would you be able to take a look at doing two backports: bug 108129 and bug 108130.  jdong already acked 108129, but it doesnt appear he uploaded or anything (according to thebug)
<ubotu> Malone bug 108129 in edgy-backports "backport newer mythtv to reflect mysql changes/fixes" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/108129
<ubotu> Malone bug 108130 in dapper-backports "backport newer mythtv to reflect mysql changes/fixes" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/108130
<imbrandon> superm1, wellt he one jdong ack's the archive admins will have to take from there, we dont upload them ( as the backport team , only test/ack them )
<superm1> imbrandon, ah okay.
<imbrandon> and then notify the archive admins, anyhow, yea the second one give me a sec
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> superm1, i will have to test build this on dapper/dapper pbuilder first , but then i'll ack it
<imbrandon> its a big jump to just "ok i trust you" thing :)
<superm1> right.  i should have saved my log from my dapper build to upload :(
<superm1> haha yea i know
<superm1> my build was roughly two weeks ago anyhow.
<Hobbsee> that REVU thread is interesting
<Burgundavia> Hobbsee: linky?
<Hobbsee> Burgundavia: ubuntu-motu ML
<Hobbsee> dont have a link, per se
<dholbach> good morning
<poningru> Hobbsee: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archive/ubuntu-motu
<poningru> ;p
* poningru runs
<ajmitch> hey daniel
<Hobbsee> poningru: thanks
<dholbach> hey andrew
<dholbach> how's it going?
<ajmitch> good :)
<ajmitch> you?
<superm1> imbrandon, with regard to setting up with mythbuntu.org, did you figure out what the situation was with the domain itself?
<dholbach> ajmitch: quite good too :)
<phratman> Could someone else look into this as well to verify that some sort of bug in kickstart -> d-i translation is in effect? Step a) Make a simple kickstart setup (doesn't really matter what it looks like as long as it has a post installation script that untars a .tar file) Step b) Boot up an Ubuntu Feisty Alternate Installation CD with the ks=<path to the kickstart configuration file> (Hit F6 and add ks=http://somewebserver.
<phratman> Also, I'd much appreciate MOTU folks taking a look at both REVU and Launchpad more often than not. :)
<Hobbsee> replied
<Hobbsee> phratman: launchpad is very big.  REVU, not much can be done with at the moment as the merges havent been done
<Hobbsee> !info kickstart
<ubotu> Package kickstart does not exist in feisty
<Hobbsee> phratman: kickstart?
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: you're a science person.  when will you figure out how to clone MOTU's
<Hobbsee> ?
<Hobbsee> phratman: d-i isnt something MOTU does - you may want to send to ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com or file a bug
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: just shutdown REVU for gutsy, we don't need any new packages now ;)
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: i wish...i wish
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: get them to talk to white about getting them into debian
<ajmitch> they should be going into debian anyway
<Hobbsee> yeah
<Hobbsee> althogh then they're unmaintained in debian, depending on the maintainer...
<ajmitch> why white? surely StevenK would be a willing volunteer :)
<Hobbsee> you'd have to ask him that
<Hobbsee> in fact, that's not a bad idea
<Hobbsee> to get rid of REVU and shove everything into debian
<ajmitch> unmaintained in debian vs ubuntu, what's the difference?
<RAOF> Last time I looked at a debian-new-maintainer guide, I seem to remember it suggested throwing packages up onto REVU as a possible option for getting your prospective package "out there"?
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: PPAs will solve everything
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: true
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: vaporware always does
<phratman> Hobbsee: kickstart is as far as I know, something that originated with Redhat and was originally ported from Redhat to Ubuntu around the Hoary release.
<Hobbsee> ahhh
<phratman> Hobbsee: It's a *much* simpler approach to automating installs in my humble opinion.
<Hobbsee> phratman: d-i isnt something MOTU does - you may want to send to ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com or file a bug
<phratman> Hobbsee: Yeah... I got that..
<Hobbsee> :)
<phratman> Would #ubuntu-devel be right for this discussion instead then?
<phratman> Hobbsee: If you're interested, kickstart basically allows you to modify an installer CD's behavior without remastering it.
<Hobbsee> phratman: if anyone was there, yes
<Hobbsee> maybe
<Hobbsee> cjwatson's the one you're after, i guess
<phratman> Ah, okay.
<phratman> Is it better to not file a report and just talk to developer directly?
<phratman> I found another bug which I haven't gotten around to filing just yet, but I figure if I talk to a developer things may go faster.
<Hobbsee> bug reports are oftne better, as irc dosnt make a good todo list
<Hobbsee> so you either get a response, then get forgotten about, or not seen for much longer, but not forgotten about
<Hobbsee> take your pick
<phratman> Ah.
<phratman> So what's the difference between #ubuntu-motu and #ubuntu-devel?
<phratman> Is #ubuntu-devel core stuff or something?
<poningru> yes
<Hobbsee> yes
<phratman> Ah, gotcha.
<phratman> I like the MOTU people though I guess most of my beef is with the devel folks :P
<phratman> Anyway, I'm not of much relevance here. Thanks for all the help folks.
<grayman> devel is for mean people
<imbrandon> phratman, well there is much overlap :)
<phratman> Ah.
<phratman> I guarantee I will be back here in the future :)
<Fujitsu> Um, do I get this right? We're going to have an entirely new CC?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> I think only Colin left the CC
<Burgundavia> nope
<Hobbsee> and voting was supposed to start ages ago
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: you get to bow down before some new overlords
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: TB voting was meant to start last year
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Wasn't it meant to be very soon after MTV?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: i stand corrected
<imbrandon> hrm ajmitch you still hack mono a bit right ?
<ajmitch> imbrandon: not particularly, why?
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: I would have thought that it would have been like the MOTU council, with terms staggered.
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: complain to the sabdfl
<imbrandon> just wondering about a few things, trying to catch up on two years of not hacking on it
<imbrandon> hehe
<ajmitch> imbrandon: I probably can't help you with it then
<wolfeon> :(
<Hobbsee> ?
<wolfeon> just frowning over ubuntu's pathetic x86 library support
<wolfeon> genpoo has better support
<wolfeon> which is what I converted this system from
<Hobbsee> then fix it?
<wolfeon> ubuntu needs this.. http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/base/amd64/emul/content.xml
<wolfeon> all those specific lirbaries in a meta package
<wolfeon> instead I'mn having to sit here extracting i386 libs
<TheMuso> Heya Fujitsu, imbrandon.
<Fujitsu> Yay, you're back!
<Fujitsu> wolfeon: Fix it, then.
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: How'd the move go?
* ajmitch has little sympathy who starts off by complaining that stuff is pathetic
<wolfeon> Fujitsu: I can fix my systems, but it would've been nice to have the packages in teh first place
<Fujitsu> wolfeon: Well, make the packages in the first place.
<Hobbsee> wolfeon: then fix the packages....
<wolfeon> Fujitsu: shouldn't need to..
* Hobbsee thinks this is fairly simple...
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Overall very well. Not stressful at all. Telstra of course screwed the line up late last week, so would have probably been online sooner otherwise,
<Fujitsu> wolfeon: Somebody has to.
<Hobbsee> wolfeon: well, that's very nice of you.  we're volunteers, we shouldnt have to fix it either.
<imbrandon> TheMuso!
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: Duh, that's what Telstra does.
<Hobbsee> so it goes on not being fixed
<wolfeon> Fujitsu: its not gonna be me.. would take me a while to learn how to package 
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Damn right.
<wolfeon> what.. you're not slaves? :)
<Fujitsu> I shouldn't have to fix universe bugs. It's just pathetic that they exist in the first place. Not my problem.
* Fujitsu resigns.
<TheMuso> lol
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: bye
<ajmitch> nice knowing you
<wolfeon> I think there seems to be some slave labor going on. :)
* TheMuso continues trawling through email.
<Hobbsee> wolfeon: you mgiht think that.
<wolfeon> :/
<wolfeon> SL mailing list is filled with it
<wolfeon> *forum
* wolfeon wishes compat was included with the base install
<ajmitch> poor Hobbsee, slaving away & her only reward a trip to seville
* Fujitsu wishes wolfeon would fix that.
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: heh.  who says i'm doing work all the time?
<wolfeon> Fujitsu: I'd have to beat the ubuntu devs senselessly until they would say yes :)
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: true 
<Hobbsee> wolfeon: no, that would be trolling.  which is kinda what you're doing now.  actually doing the work would get you further
<wolfeon> Hobbsee: I'm doing the work.. just on my own system.
<Hobbsee> it'd be more productive if you actually put ti into ubuntu...
<Hobbsee> but you dont seem to be willing to do that, just coming to whinge here.
<superm1> while on subject here, wasn't the holdup for introducing support for installing 32 bit apps in a 64 bit system going to be that we were waiting for etch to be released, since it was the first debian release that actually had support for amd64?  I recall reading this on a wiki spec at some point
<Fujitsu> Not sure what Debian's plans are on that.
* Fujitsu consults ajmitch.
<imbrandon> wolfeon, ever thought about just using the ia32-libs package :)
<ajmitch> superm1: if you mean multiarch support, it's not as a simple problem as most people think
<wolfeon> imbrandon: I did install ia32-libs
<superm1> ajmitch, thats what i imagined.  if it was simple, it would have already been done (and introduced in etch)
<superm1> ajmitch, but yes i was referring to multiarch support
<ajmitch> superm1: there's the nasty hack way of doing things, and a sane way
<wolfeon> ia32-libs is like.. the base of the genpoo packages
<wolfeon> http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/base/amd64/emul/content.xml
<imbrandon> and [..]  ?
<wolfeon> this is what gentoo suports, and secondlife works with alsa.. right now it is using OSS. you can imagine the pain
<Fujitsu> Hm, isn't SecondLife's source available, so amd64 builds are possible?
<wolfeon> yuck
<imbrandon> so fix it, or actualy help someone else fix it, not complain and say that so-and-so does this or that
<wolfeon> Fujitsu: they do not distribute the binary blobs.. if you compiled the source, it would be slower in many ways
<wolfeon> *binary blob libraries
<imbrandon> wolfeon, why are you trying to run secondlife on a 64bit kernel anyhow is the better question, the only programs that will take advantage of larger memory addressing are server apps and second life isnt server 
<imbrandon> anyhow this is all getting way way off topic
<wolfeon> imbrandon: I have a desktop with 6 gigs of mem :)
<imbrandon> 32bit with pae if great
<imbrandon> is*
<wolfeon> noo thank you
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: That's what I would have thought PAE was for.
<ajmitch> PAE isn't nice
<Fujitsu> I know nothing about it except that it allows use of more than 4GiB of RAM.
<wolfeon> :)
<RAOF> Ah, I see the "make my amd64 work like i386" has made it onto #ubuntu-motu :)
<wolfeon> don't care now.. just commented out OSS in the sl script and it used alsa..
<wolfeon> why would someone want to try oss before alsa.. wth :/
* wolfeon wants his 64bit,l kthnx
<wolfeon> ;)
<ajmitch> RAOF: of course
<RAOF> I'm all for 64bit support.  But proper multiarch seems like a *lot* of effort, for almost no gain.
<wolfeon> RAOF: there really isn't anythign left but packaging up 32bit libraries
<RAOF> (At least on x86, other archs have an actual performance reason for mixing 32& 64bit code)
<ajmitch> wolfeon: that's the nasty hack I was talking about earlier
<wolfeon> ajmitch: I know :)))
<wolfeon> the hack is what I've done before in genpoo
<ajmitch> so saying that there really isn't anything left, is a bit inaccurate
<wolfeon> good riddens to it :)
<wolfeon> ajmitch: a hack is better than nothing
<imbrandon> wolfeon, thats a matter of opinion, but no imho a hack is not better than nothing
<imbrandon> in this case
* TheMuso sighs
<TheMuso> Finally got through email.
<imbrandon> TheMuso!
<imbrandon> your back
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Indee.
<TheMuso> indeed even
<imbrandon> howd the move go ?
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Just moved house.
<imbrandon> cool
<TheMuso> See my comment to Fujitsu earlier.
<TheMuso> Overall well, but our monopoly telco screwed up our line, so we weren't able to get DSL going till today.
<imbrandon> ahh
<TheMuso> bbiaf
<Fujitsu> Their monopoly is sort of being reduced a bit, but they still control every piece of telecommunications copper going into residential areas.
<ajmitch> just like telecom on this side of the ditch
<Burgundavia> we just got number portability here
<ajmitch> at least the government is splitting up telecom this year
<RAOF> Have you sold your monopoly telecom?
<Fujitsu> Our government isn't splitting ours up... it's just selling it off.
<ajmitch> oh telecom went private years ago
<RAOF> Because that always seemed like a stupid idea to me "No, of *course* they won't abuse their monopoly.  We'll be watching them *really closely*"
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: are you finding that any w.u.c page is taking forever to load?
<Fujitsu> So we're going to have a fully privatised corporation controlling all the last-mile copper in the country, as well as being an ISP and content provider.
<ajmitch> the government is finally at the stage of being fed up & forcing them to split
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: wiki? I haven't tried it in an hour or so.
<ajmitch> so we're a few years ahead of .au in that sense
<Burgundavia> Hobbsee: nope
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: can you?
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: You sure they're not going to somehow succeed in an appeal, like MSFT?
<Hobbsee> Burgundavia: yes, but you're not australian
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: I'll try now.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: great
<Burgundavia> Hobbsee: yes, I still have my sanity, thanks :)
<Fujitsu> About 5 seconds, which is a little slower than normal
<TheMuso> The area where I am now probably won't see DSL2+ available for another year at least, if not more.
<TheMuso> Ok. Time to do a fresh reinstall on a box.
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: no, telecom gets to submit an alternate plan, but that's about it
<Fujitsu> Cable's good, except for only having two ISPs providing it, and the stupid capped upload speed.
<ajmitch> TheMuso: don't worry, we've been promised ADSL2+ "this year" for 2 years now
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: That's what everybody thought about Microsoft,..
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: telecom nz doesn't have the same clout as microsoft
<ajmitch> I don't think any company can be quite as arrogant & powerful as MS at times
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: Even so. They'll manage.
<Fujitsu> Telstra comes close.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: right
<TheMuso> ajmitch: Any other companies there decided to install their own DSLAMS?
<ajmitch> TheMuso: they can't yet
<TheMuso> Oh ok.
<ajmitch> TheMuso: still waiting on local loop unbundling to come through
<TheMuso> Lovely.
<ajmitch> which will end up being part of this split of telecom
<ajmitch> a few companies have promised they will
<Fujitsu> I loved it when Telstra tried to get permission to roll out some new broadband network that they weren't going to resell.
<ajmitch> but that's a way off
<Fujitsu> And when they started selling there own ADSL plans below the wholesale cost.
<Fujitsu> *their
<RAOF> "Of course they'll offer their *direct* competitors appropriate access to their infrastructure" :(
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Aren't Telstra trying to do some dirty deal which will allow their network to happen?
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: I think so, yes.
<Fujitsu> Having them entirely privatised is going to be really, really bad.
<TheMuso> Oh yeah.
<RAOF> I just don't get how the "free market" government thinks it's going to work
<Fujitsu> Shouldn't the ACCC do something about it?
<RAOF> But government regulation is bad, m'kay?
<TheMuso> The ACCC are a toothless tiger as far as I understand it.
<RAOF> Also, the ACCC doing something about it would hurt the Telstra stock price, and *think of the mum & dad investors*!!!!!!11111
<jussi01> the ACCC do nothing...
<Fujitsu> RAOF: True, true. We wouldn't want that, would we?
<Fujitsu> jussi01: Sure they do. They let Telstra get away with a heap of stuff.
<jussi01> lol
<Fujitsu> Does anybody here know if LVM snapshotting has been fixed such that it doesn't randomly kill your VG? I presume so, but I'd like to get confirmation...
<RAOF> Eeep, it was broken like that?
<Fujitsu> It was.
<RAOF> Good think I hadn't got around to looking at that pbuilder with lvm snapshots thingy
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: I believe it was fixed
<ajmitch> siretart will be able to confirm when he's around
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: I thought so too.
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: Thanks, I'll check with him.
<Fujitsu> A nice short visit from delmorep in #ubuntu-devel... How useful.
<Hobbsee> yep
<Burgundavia> indeed
<Hobbsee> he's spammed it twice in #ubuntu too
<Fujitsu> A strange coincidence is that I started pbuilding it about 10 minutes ago.
* imbrandon gets to work on some lenny and gutsy bugs
<imbrandon> startin early
<imbrandon> hey can we upload yet?
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: It's still frozen.
<imbrandon> k
<TheMuso> I'm sure we'll all be creating chroots as soon as things are stable enough to do so.
<Fujitsu> \sh: Having fun there?
<Fujitsu> Apparently so.
<siretart> ajmitch: hi!
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: What? You mean you haven't upgraded yet? Come on, all the forum users have, it HAS to be good.
<siretart> I'm able to confirm what?
<Fujitsu> Hi siretart. Is the LVM snapshotting bug fixed?
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: lol.
<siretart> Fujitsu: sort of, yes. I don't notice the symptoms anymore on my feisty desktop
<siretart> Fujitsu: in debian, lvcreate (or more specifically, libdevmapper) was to create the device node
<siretart> Fujitsu: in feisty, udev is to create it. this is causing a big confusion
<siretart> Fujitsu: and many additional traps where to things can get racy
<Fujitsu> Sounds like fun.
<siretart> it is
* Fujitsu looks for docs on crypto-LVM on Ubuntu.
<\sh> moins
<siretart> hi \sh 
<Fujitsu> \sh: You've managed to stay in for more than a minute now! Great :)
<siretart> Fujitsu: root on crypto-lv is pretty broken in feisty, according to cryptsetup's bug page
<siretart> Fujitsu: I'd love to see some kind of cryto team in ubuntu which care's for this use case
<Fujitsu> siretart: It looks that way :(
* Fujitsu joins to said non-existent crypto-team.
<shawarma> Have any of you upgraded to gutsy yet?
<Fujitsu> I use LUKS on an LV, but I'd like to have VG on LUKS.
<Fujitsu> s/VG/PV/
<siretart> Fujitsu: interesting idea. I'd like to discuss this in sevilla
<dqdev> hello there!
<Fujitsu> siretart: Want to write up a specish thing?
<Fujitsu> dqdev: Hi.
<dqdev> i have a question
<shawarma> We have answers.
<dqdev> i created a desktop file :)
<Fujitsu> shawarma: Hopefully.
<dqdev> for a 
<siretart> Fujitsu: I plan to do so, if nobody is faster than me
<dqdev> program (the desktop file was missing
<shawarma> Fujitsu: Oh, but we do. Maybe not ones that match his question, though.
<dqdev> I created the desktop file
<dqdev> then saved it under prog/debian
<dqdev> and now, as I understand, have to tell rules to install the desktop file into /usr/share/applications
<shawarma> dqdev: Almost, but not quite.
<dqdev> is that correct so far?
<dqdev> hm... ok. i m all ears
<shawarma> dqdev: You need to install it in (probably) debian/tmp/usr/share/applications
<dqdev> and how do I do this installation?
<\sh> Fujitsu, lol...had to updated my dircproxy ;)
<shawarma> dqdev: When a .deb is being built, it's installed into a separate directory structure that matches your real dir structure. This is than put into a tar.gz and unpacked when you  install the .deb. It's i this alternative dir structure, you want to put you .desktop file.
<shawarma> dqdev: So:
<shawarma> dqdev: See where the rest of the package install things to. You can try "$(DESTDIR)/usr/share/applications" which is most likely correct.
<dqdev> OK
<shawarma> Makes sense?
<dqdev> well... let's say that it's the /debian.tmp/usr/apps
<dqdev> where I have to install the .desktop file
<dqdev> even though I dont know where to find
<dqdev> the folder where the prog. tries to install things
<dqdev> how do I procceed?
<dqdev> if I read the rules file
<dqdev> i think that the installation dir is 
<dqdev> debian/package_name/usr/share/games/package_name/
<jussi01> hello motu's!
<dqdev> hellp
<jussi01> Im trying to qmake something, which option do i install?http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/17183/
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<shawarma> dqdev: You should install you desktop file in debian/package_name/usr/share/applications
<dqdev> ok! 
<dqdev> i dont know though howw to do the 'installation (complete newbie
<dqdev> can you give me some directions
<shawarma> dqdev: Ah, just copy the file in your rules.
<shawarma> dqdev: Add a cp command to debian/rules that installs it.
<dqdev> so, I edit the rules and at the end of the file i just write cp package/debian/package.desktop package/debian/package/usr/share/apps ?
<dqdev> sorry for my pretty basic questions, but I need some push at the beginning
<jussi01> dqdev: your all good, we've all been there (some of us still are)
<jussi01> (including me)
<dqdev> so, I edit the rules and at the end of the file i just write cp
<dqdev> +package/debian/package.desktop package/debian/package/usr/share/apps ?
<shawarma> dqde1: Not at the end, no.
<shawarma> dqde1: Have you ever edited a Makefile before?
<dqdev> yes
<dqdev> not extensively though :$
<imbrandon> ajmitch, ping!
<shawarma> dqdev: Ok. debian/rules is a Makefile. There's probably an install target in it.
<dqdev> yes, there is
<shawarma> dqdev: Good. Add it there.
<dqdev> there is the part install: build
<shawarma> dqdev: Oh, and you can leave out the first "package" bit from the path in the cp line.
<shawarma> dqdev: Yes. Below that.
<dqdev> there there are commands such as  dh_testdir,  dh_testroot,  $(MAKE) install DESTDIR=$(CURDIR)/debian/ketm/
<imbrandon> or StevenK, ping!
<dqdev> ok... I ll try to play a little bit around with that. Then, I just build the debian package? Do I have to do anything else before that?
<shawarma> dqdev: That should be it.
<shawarma> dqdev: If it's a fairly standard package, of course.
<dqdev> i think it is. thanks for the help shawarma. I ll try to do what you suggested and see what happens :$
<shawarma> dqdev: Cool. Cheers.
* imbrandon needs a DD , any alive / awake atm ?
<kkubasik> anyone have a moment?
<kkubasik> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4874
<StevenK> imbrandon: Hum?
<shawarma> kkubasik: You need to put the proper preamble in debian/copyright as one of the previous comments mention.
<kkubasik> my b, thought the preamble was something else, I'll upload again in a moment
<imbrandon> StevenK, can you make a small unstable upload for me please 
<imbrandon> less than a MB 
<shawarma> kkubasik: It's the bit that you usually put at the top of source files.
<kkubasik> yeah, I just found it in  another package, I thought it was just the debian file location
<kkubasik> ok, uploaded
<shawarma> kkubasik: Also, it seems to be GPL-2. You should update the reference to it, too.
<imbrandon> StevenK, [..]  ?
<StevenK> imbrandon: I suppose so.
<StevenK> imbrandon: Give me a break, I am eating dinner at the same time.
<imbrandon> hehe thanks , http://www.imbrandon.com/misc/apt-mirror/debian/apt-mirror_0.4.4-5.dsc
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Not good enough.
* Fujitsu cracks the whip.
<Fujitsu> Taking a break to eat? Who needs to eat?
* StevenK kicks Fujitsu in the head.
<mvo> hello! I wonder if you are interessted in a special "feisty-uprade-motu" tag for universe packages that cause upgrade trouble ?
<imbrandon> sure mvo, sounds good
<StevenK> imbrandon: (Closes: #413795) and (Closes: #413796) => (Closes: #413795, #413796)  if you care
<Fujitsu> mvo: Sounds useful.
<Fujitsu> s/uprade/upgrade/, though.
<imbrandon> StevenK, ahh i dident know, ok
* mvo adds it to #10903
<Fujitsu> mvo: You left a digit out, surely?
<Fujitsu> bug #10903
<ubotu> Malone bug 10903 in postgresql "Postmaster won't start (after upgrade)" [High,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/10903
<mvo> #109037,
<mvo> *sigh* :)
<StevenK> imbrandon: I don't care enough for -5, just so you know.
<mvo> thanks Fujitsu
<imbrandon> StevenK, huh ?
<imbrandon> ohh ok
<Fujitsu> bug #109037
<ubotu> Malone bug 109037 in k3d "k3d" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/109037
<imbrandon> cool yea
<Fujitsu> Nice summary.
<kkubasik> ok, new upload at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4875
<Fujitsu> I'm sure I installed k3d yesterday to test something else.
<StevenK> imbrandon: Does -5 encompass the Ubuntu changes? :-P
<imbrandon> StevenK, yea, the ubuntu changes dont apply ( its to the mirror.list standing delta )
<imbrandon> StevenK, since i'm upstream and debian and ubuntu maintainers i got lazy, i should make a new release and inclused both mirror.lists
<imbrandon> but ahh well that will be 0.4.5
<StevenK> imbrandon: Successfully uploaded packages.
<imbrandon> thanks
<StevenK> imbrandon: In future, could I suggest mentors.debian.net instead of bleating here?
<imbrandon> StevenK, yea i normaly just poke anibal , but hehe
<kkubasik> also, if anyone gets a moment, I redid the tangerine packaging
<kkubasik> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4876
<kkubasik> and the updated moodbar upload
<kkubasik> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4877
<imbrandon> kkubasik, your versioning looks a little funky in debian/changelog for moodbar
<imbrandon> 0.1.2-1 > 0.1.2-0ubuntu2
<imbrandon> and umm both entries shouldent be there 
<kkubasik> imbrandon: how do you mean both shouldn't be there
<kkubasik> shouldn't there be one?
<imbrandon> there should be one, not both, they sare saying the same thing and conflicting
<imbrandon> whats the upstream version of the package ? 0.1.2 ?
<kkubasik> yeah
<imbrandon> is it in debian ?
<kkubasik> no
<imbrandon> ok then both verisons are wrong, take out one of the entries, and change the other one to 0.1.2-0ubuntu1
<imbrandon> <upstream>-<debian revision>ubuntu<ubuntu revision>
<kkubasik> ok, fixed and uploaded, give it a minute and it'll be there
<kkubasik> imbrandon: did the same versioning fix for tangerine
<dqdev> hello all
<imbrandon> kkubasik, ok
<kkubasik> ok, updates are in
<kkubasik> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4879
<dqdev> i am trying to install a missing .desktop file into a package
<kkubasik> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4880
<dqdev> and I edit the rules file
<dqdev> by adding the line:
<dqdev> cp debian/ketm.desktop debian/ketm/usr/share/applications/ketm.desktop
<dqdev> under install
<dqdev> and then I build the package with the commands
<dqdev> sudo apt-get build-dep ketm 
<dqdev> debuild -us -uc
<dqdev> but irt still dosnt get installed
<dqdev> Am I doing smthg wrong?
<Fujitsu> Anybody know much about pycentral? It seems to be doing stupid things in bug #109037.
<ubotu> Malone bug 109037 in k3d "Edgy's k3d fails to be removed in Feisty" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/109037
<StevenK> I thought pycentral always required a X{B,S}-Python-Version field?
<imbrandon> dqdev, you did install the .deb it produced right ? if so can you pastebin the output of dpkg -c <package>.deb
<Fujitsu> StevenK: How would it have been installable in Edgy, then?
<Fujitsu> Or is the Edgy postrm just deranged...
* Fujitsu looks.
<Fujitsu> Python-Versions: current
<Fujitsu> That s shouldn't be there, should it?
<StevenK> Is that the source or generated control?
<Fujitsu> StevenK: generated
<imbrandon> dqdev, do NOT paste that in a query window, i asked you to pastebin it please
<imbrandon> your query has been closed
<dqdev> sorry
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Yeah, I think it ought to be Python-Version
<Fujitsu> As do I.
<imbrandon> food bbiab
<Fujitsu> Currently trying to grab the source.
<Fujitsu> Evil overloaded mirrors.
* StevenK pats the mirror 0.1 ms away from him
<Fujitsu> StevenK: I haven't got source on mine yet, unfortunately.
<Fujitsu> ...
<Fujitsu> There's a package in edgy-proposed by Hobbsee to fix this issue.
<StevenK> Heh
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Yes, neither.
<StevenK> I don't have a spare 11Gb for source.
<dqdev> imbrandon: when I run dpkg -c <package>.deb, I don't see that the file <package>.desktop has been installed. SO appartently, my rules changes are not correct
<imbrandon> dqdev, there ya go :)
<Fujitsu> Oh, crap, that can't be fixed at all without some hackish stuff in postrm.
<imbrandon> StevenK, 
<imbrandon> brandon@voyager:~$ ping mirror.imbrandon.com
<imbrandon> PING mirror.imbrandon.com (198.247.173.230) 56(84) bytes of data.
<imbrandon> 64 bytes from mirror.imbrandon.com (198.247.173.230): icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=0.124 ms
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> 0.124
<Fujitsu> 1.23ms :(
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Any ideas on how to fix this? It seems pretty irreversible screwed.
<Fujitsu> *irreversibly
<StevenK> Fujitsu: If the new post{rm,inst} work, it *should* sort itself out.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Hobbsee's fix was to rename the field, which of course won't work, because the old one has to be removed first...
<Fujitsu> All I can think of is to cause the postrm to not run pycentral for that particular version, but that's really unnice.
<StevenK> Have you tested that it won't?
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Yes, and many others.
<StevenK> Twitch
<Nafallo> nafallo@silverfairy:~ $ ping6 ogre
<Nafallo> PING ogre(ogre.local) 56 data bytes
<Nafallo> 64 bytes from ogre.local: icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=0.165 ms
<Fujitsu> It has to remove the old package first, and the postrm hasn't been changed.
<StevenK> Naughty Hobbsee.
<Fujitsu> The only change was in debian/control, s/Versions/Version/
* Fujitsu reads up on version detection in postrms.
<StevenK> Can you pastebin an upgrade?
<Fujitsu> StevenK: There's an example on the bug. It tries to use the new one, but that fails identically.
<Nafallo> nice
<Nafallo> us.archive. is still sweden :-)
<StevenK> It's a horrible thought, but if the version is the busted one, exit 0 in the postrm?
<Fujitsu> Oh joy.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: How can I detect that? The call is pretty useless:
<Fujitsu> #
<Fujitsu> old-postrm upgrade new-version
<Fujitsu> We don't get the old version.
<StevenK> I told you it was horrible.
<StevenK> We aren't the old-postrm
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Sh.
<Fujitsu> True, true.
<StevenK> The currently installed package contains the old-postrm
<Fujitsu> Noted, noted.
<Fujitsu> Repeat, repeat.
<Fujitsu> I must remember to attack Hobbsee when she gets back.
* StevenK enrols Fujitsu in a reading and comprehension course, along with imbrandon.
<StevenK> Heh
<Fujitsu> Arrgh, nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.
<Fujitsu> It's all auto-generated by pycentral.
* Fujitsu breaks the CoC a bit.
<StevenK> The package in question has no postrm?
<Fujitsu> william@irranat:~/MOTUing/k3d-0.5.12.0$ ls debian/
<Fujitsu> changelog  compat  control  copyright  docs  k3d-dev.dirs  k3d-dev.install  k3d.dirs  k3d.install  k3d.menu  pycompat  rules
<Fujitsu> It's autogenerated, damn damn damn damn damn.
<StevenK> We, and by we I mean you, lose.
<imbrandon> dqdev, umm thats the point of the room here, and why i asked you to use pastbin , please dont paste/query me about things that you start in here ( unless it becomes unreleated to in here )
<StevenK> Hrm. python-central is maintained by doko...
<imbrandon> besides, more can help you that way other than just me dqdev 
<imbrandon> brb dinner is done
<Fujitsu> I suppose there must be something I can put in a postinst that is replaced with the autogenerated stuff, like is done with debhelper.
<StevenK> A postrm, even?
<slomo> siretart: ping?
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Shh, I'm too annoyed with whoever misspelt it in the first place to type properly :P
<StevenK> doko
<StevenK> Which is the Maintainer of python-central, in a case of irony.
<doko> ?
<Fujitsu> doko: Hi. k3d in Edgy is stuffed... Is there a token that I can put in postrm that pycentral will replace with its... magic?
<Fujitsu> Um, prerm, sorry.
<StevenK> doko: bug 109037
<ubotu> Malone bug 109037 in k3d "Edgy's k3d fails to be removed in Feisty (dup-of: 64848)" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/109037
<ubotu> Malone bug 64848 in k3d "[SRU: EDGY]   packaging typo - k3d does not install" [High,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/64848
<Fujitsu> OK, it seems to actually work now, though I've just pasted the pycentral stuff in.
<StevenK> The same thing that is autogenerated?
<Fujitsu> Yes, but with a check for the dodgy version up the top.
<StevenK> Can you pastebin it?
<Fujitsu> Baaah, stupid packages that have to configure themselves to build the source package.
<doko> Fujitsu, StevenK: so the problem is that k3d uses pycentral, but doesn't have a Python-Version attribute? strange, because k3d uses python-support ...
<StevenK> Bwahaha
<Fujitsu> doko: Does it?
<Fujitsu> How strange.
<StevenK> What does it Build-Depend on?
<Fujitsu> bddebian made it use pycentral during Edgy or so...
<StevenK> Oh, so bddebian is to blame?
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Indeedily.
<StevenK> Okay, let's kill him and not Hobbsee
<Fujitsu> No, let's kill Hobbsee 'cause she didn't test her fix. That could never have worked.
<StevenK> Hrm. How about both?
<Fujitsu> Probably.
<Fujitsu> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/17194/
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Don't do "$2" = ""0.5.12.0-1ubuntu2"
<Fujitsu> Why not?
<Fujitsu> This is the first time I've worked with maintainer scripts, as far as I can recall :S
<dqdev> hello all
<Fujitsu> Hi dqdev.
<jussi01> hi dqdev
<dqdev> could you tell me, how can I check if the command 'cp ketm.desktop /home/dqdev/UBUNTU/ketm-0.0.6/debian/ketm/usr/share/applications' worked, after building my package?
<StevenK> Fujitsu: dpkg --compare-versions "$2" eq "0.5.12.0-1ubuntu2"
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Thanks, that's probably a better idea.
<dqdev> when I try to install the built package 
<dqdev> i get the error
<dqdev>  trying to overwrite directory `/usr/share/applications' in package hal-device-manager with nondirectory
<lifeless> you should use 'install' not cp
<dqdev> the "cp" is under the install field of the RULES file
<dqdev> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/17196/
<dqdev> here is a pastebin
<StevenK> dqdev: You aren't create the /home/dqdev/UBUNTU/ketm-0.0.6/debian/ketm/usr/share/applications directory.
<jussi01> dqdev:  create debian/install and uncomment dh_install in the rules file. in debian/install put: filename.desktop /path/to/here ..... i think...
<StevenK> No, that isn't it.
<jussi01> ok...
<jussi01> sorry
<StevenK> Add usr/share/applications to debian/dirs or debian/<package>.dirs
<jussi01> dqdev: ^^ listen to him
<dqdev> ok, i found the <package>.dirs
<dqdev> and added the directory
<dqdev> is that all?
<dqdev> is line 10 of my RULES file correct or wrong?
<Fujitsu> dqdev: That should work, as long as you don't actually have the /home/dqdev/UBUNTU bit in there.
<Fujitsu> I see that you don't so that should be OK.
<dqdev> let me try once more
<Fujitsu> dqdev: Probably safer to stick a / on the end of line 10, to ensure the package building explodes if you miss something like that again.
<dharrigan> Hi. I'm stuck. I'm trying to build a new deb from a set of files. These files are binaries, so no source and they come from a self-extracting bin file.
<dharrigan> Do I have to first create a tarball of the files that I want to eventually belong to the deb, so that debhelper (dh-make) can do it's work?
<dqdev> grrrr....
<dqdev> installation succeded but I still dont get anything 
<dqdev> in the menu bar!!!
<imbrandon> and you did refresh / start the gnome-session ?
<dqdev> hmmm... no :$
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: gnome-panel, you mean?
<imbrandon> err yea
* imbrandon isnt a gnome guy
<Fujitsu> dqdev: Try running update-desktop-database in terminal, and see if it appears.
<siretart> slomo: pong
<Fujitsu> dqdev: If it does, ensure that dh_desktop is being run in debian/rules.
<slomo> siretart: can you give me the exact error string of seahorse when running together with gpg-agent? i'm trying to fix it myself now ;)
<siretart> slomo: puuh, I'm sorry. we workarounded the problem now by disabling the scripts in /etc/X11/xsession.d
<siretart> slomo: now I start seahorse myself via gnome-session
<dqdev> I got it!!!
<dqdev> i have the image in the menu bar!!!
<dqdev> my FIRST BUG FIX!!! (actually you did it guys!!!)
<dqdev> but you have to train the young-ones
<jussi01> nice work dqdev!!
<dqdev> it's a time investment... hopefully it will pay off in the future
<dqdev> there is only  one more thing missing
<jussi01> dqdev: ?
<dqdev> one min.
<dqdev> ok... i have to figure out if the .xpm figure is there or not
<dqdev>  jussi01: yes?
<slomo> siretart: hm ok, i'll search myself then... but can you try any fixes when i found something?
<jussi01> dqdev: i was wondering what was missing...
<dqdev> i have to figure out if the image works as well
<siretart> slomo: sure
<slomo> siretart: thanks
<slomo> siretart: "A non-supported PGP passphrase caching agent is running."
<slomo> this one?
<siretart> sounds familiar, but I'm not 100% sure
<slomo> ok, well... i have to go shopping first and then really take a look at it :)
<dharrigan> Anyone perhaps can help?
<Lutin> dharrigan: help to do what ?
<dharrigan> I'm trying to build a dep from a sent of files that don't come as a tarball, but are extracted out from a bin file. Do I have to then, after extracting them, repackage as a tarball so that dh-make and do it's work?
<dharrigan> I've never built a deb before.
<dharrigan> .
<Lutin> dharrigan: yes, you need to create an orig tarball so dh_make can work, or use it with the --createorig option
<dharrigan> does the orig tarball contain the debiab directories etc? I'm just confused. If I have a set of files, can I use something to just say "here are a set of files (in a directory) please create a deb for me. " with template rules etc..
<Adri2000> dharrigan: the orig tarball shouldn't contain the debian/ directory, but sometimes it does... dh_make will create for you all the files of the debian/ directory, some are not needed for your package (you can remove them) and the others need to be modified
<dharrigan> ah okay, so, if I supply an original tarball (I make, from the files extracted from the bin file) then running dh-make will create a directory all setup for me with defaults etc.. that I can then customise?
<dharrigan> .
<gpocentek> hello
<harrisony> g'day mate
<imbrandon> ello gpocentek 
* Fujitsu yawns.
<Fujitsu> k3d does take a little while to build.
<harrisony> Fujitsu: im with you, im off to bed to wake up at 1am :D
<jsgotangco> hehe
<harrisony> and then go to school at 7am
<Fujitsu> Why would you awaken at 1am?
<harrisony> Fujitsu: Ubuntu open week
<Fujitsu> Ah, which session?
<harrisony> errr joining the community
<harrisony> and then there are a few after
<harrisony> packaging and then 2 launchpad ones then im off to school 
<Demon012> anyone know the command that can tell me what package pygtk-codegen-2.0 is in?
<Fujitsu> !find pygtk-codegen-2.0
<Demon012> (forgotten how you do that with apt)
<ubotu> File pygtk-codegen-2.0 found in python-gtk2-dev
<Fujitsu> Demon012: dpkg -S blah, for installed packages.
<Demon012> nice 
<Demon012> what about packages not yet installed?
<Demon012> and ty mr bot =)
<Fujitsu> That's what ubotu is for... otherwise you can use apt-file.
<siretart> Demon012: have a look at the package 'apt-file', or use http://packages.ubuntu.com
<Demon012> perfect ty guys
<\sh> uploads to gutsy are working? ,-)
<shawarma> \sh: I wouldn't bet on it. They're still sorting out the toolchain.
<jsgotangco> hmm
<\sh> sharms, ah....I just wanted to upload wine ;)
<Demon012> does anyone know which file in a source directory holds the maintainers name, license etc (I am following this guide: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/ch-first.en.html) to make a package for exaile to replace the python2.4 dependency with python2.5
<imbrandon> debian/*
<imbrandon> debian/copyright , debian/control
<imbrandon> etc
<Demon012> aha ok so you edit that after you run dh_make?
<imbrandon> yes
<Demon012> ok that's good ty m8
<pochu> Demon012: but you don't need to make a new package, just modify the one in the repos: "apt-get source exaile"
<TheMuso> Hey pochu.
<Demon012> oh cool didn't know you could edit them
<Demon012> will look into that now ty
* Demon012 is new if you haven't already noticed heh
<pochu> heya TheMuso :)
<pochu> Demon012: welcome!
<Demon012> ty pochu
<Demon012> pochu: how do you edit a .deb file I have that isn't in a repository?
<Demon012> how do I*
<Fujitsu> Demon012: You can't really edit .debs directly. You need the source package (.dsc, .orig.tar.gz, .diff.gz)
* StevenK waves to TheMuso.
<Demon012> ok will go the apt-get source route then
<StevenK> TheMuso: How did the move go?
<TheMuso> StevenK: Overall very well thanks. Wasn't stressful at all. Telstra naturally screwed up the line, but that was to be expected.
<StevenK> Heh
<StevenK> TheMuso: And we released while you didn't see.
* StevenK ducks
<TheMuso> StevenK: har har har
<StevenK> TheMuso: :-P
<TheMuso> Anyways, going off again for a bit. Still finalizing my setup here.
<Demon012> ah pochu I think I do need to make a package from scratch (the exaile in the repos's is only version 0.2.8 rather than 0.2.9)
<Hobbsee> hm?
<Demon012> however I do have a .deb (no .desc or anything though which works however it has python2.4 instead of python 2.5 as the dependency)
* Demon012 is trying to fullfill this bug report https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/exaile/+bug/106301
<ubotu> Malone bug 106301 in exaile "[need-packaging]  Exaile 0.2.9" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  
<StevenK> Demon012: Debian has 0.2.9
<StevenK> When gutsy opens, you or someone else can do a merge
<Demon012> StevenK: trying to do this for Fiesty for now
<StevenK> Demon012: Why? It's released.
<Demon012> bug reports states wrong dependency for the released package and repos' only have 0.2.8
* Demon012 may be missing something as he is new
<StevenK> Which means you can't update it to 0.2.9, but you can fix the incorrect dependancy.
<Hobbsee> and do a stable release update for it
<Demon012> I am doing a release based on the current stable release from the exaile site
<Hobbsee> Demon012: but do you plan to get it into ubuntu feisty?
<Hobbsee> or only have ti locally?
<Demon012> submit it to one of you guys for checking 
<Demon012> and then upload
<Hobbsee> but 0.2.9 wont be accepted into feisty...the archive admins will say no...
<Demon012> or at least that is the impression I get from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers
* Demon012 is confused
<Hobbsee> !sru
<ubotu> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates for main and restricted, while https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/SRU is for universe and multiverse.
<Hobbsee> that's true, but that refers to getting things into the DEVELOPMENT release - not the stable one(s)
<Demon012> oh right ok
<Hobbsee> since feisty is released now, no new packages, or version updates go into it
<Hobbsee> only bugfixes, which follow the above sru process
<Demon012> so should I just ignore https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/exaile/+bug/106301
<Hobbsee> (which are small)
<ubotu> Malone bug 106301 in exaile "[need-packaging]  Exaile 0.2.9" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  
<Demon012> or can we put it in universe?
<StevenK> We can't put it anywhere in Feisty.
<StevenK> At all.
<Demon012> right ok
<Hobbsee> it'll go into gutsy, assuming someone does that merge
<Demon012> so what should I do? create it and we can put it in gutsy?
<Demon012> or should I just stop and look for something else to do?
<man-di> Demon012: its in debian already, just request a merge
<Demon012> man-di: how do I go about doing that?
<Hobbsee> man-di: you mean do the merge.  you request a sync.
<dqdev> hello all (again)
* Demon012 apologises for all the questions but this is new to me
<Hobbsee> and i think he wants it in feisty, not caring about gutsy at this point in time :)
<dqdev> i managed to fix a bug 
<Hobbsee> Demon012: no problme
<Hobbsee> dqdev: heya!
<Hobbsee> dqdev: woo!
<dqdev> but the fix
<dqdev> needs 2 new files to be added
<dqdev> in the <package>/
<dqdev> so since this is my 1st bug
<man-di> Hobbsee: I always mix up these two
<dqdev> to fix EVER
<dqdev> i want some directinos
<Hobbsee> dqdev: which bug, and which two files?
<dqdev> on what to do really
<Demon012> welcome to the club dqdev I am trying to sort my first thing ever too =)
<dqdev> the bug is #80474
<Hobbsee> bug 80474
<ubotu> Malone bug 80474 in ketm "ketm doesn't have a desktop-file" [Wishlist,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/80474
<dqdev> and i have a .desktop gil and a .xpm file
<dqdev> so... how to report the fix
<Hobbsee> so you put them into the debian/ dir of the source, and make sure they get installed?
<dqdev> exactly
<dqdev> not in the debian
<siretart> man-di: we have been promised that at some point launchpad will offer some way to directly request syncs. until now this requires using some special shell commands on restricted hosts, so we proxy those requests via malone bugreports
<dqdev> in the <package>/
<dqdev> so 1 dir up from debian
<Hobbsee> siretart: its' not a sync anyway.  debian changes
<Hobbsee> yuo need to put it in debian/ as that's the only thing that we change
<siretart> Hobbsee: right. 
<dqdev> hmmm 
<Hobbsee> !packagingguide
<ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources - See also !backports
<dqdev> i see
<man-di> siretart: yes, I read about that now
* Demon012 is very confused what should I be doing about this sync, debian change or whatever?
<dqdev> and then? what steps do I have to follow?
<man-di> Demon012: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/SyncRequestProcess hast instructions
<Demon012> ty man-di
* Hobbsee thought we had desktop file instructions
<dqdev> what exactly do i give in llaunchpad?
* Demon012 wishes there was some classroom he could go to about this stuff
<Hobbsee> Demon012: dont worry about gutsy yet - the toolchain isnt built, most things wont build.  for feisty, follow the !sru about getting that bug fixed (the python2.4 to 2.5 change, or whatever it is)
<siretart> Demon012: we have been doing such 'classrooms' lessons in #ubuntu-classroom in the past
<dqdev> any help?
<Demon012> siretart: any idea when the next class will be held?
<Demon012> actually forget that just found out
<Demon012>   Packaging 101 - Jordan Mantha   << 16:00 UTC today
<Demon012> damn I am gonna be at college then
<Hobbsee> Laser_away: going to cover .desktop files in your packaging 101, by any chance?
<Hobbsee> Demon012: there will be logs
<Demon012> any idea where they will be posted?
<siretart> Demon012: sorry, no idea. I guess it will be announced on ubuntu-motu@ mailing list
<siretart> Demon012: the problem is rather finding some teacher. asking for one on the mailing list might help
<Hobbsee> all ubuntu members:  time to vote.  https://launchpad.net/~ubuntumembers/
* Fujitsu attacks Hobbsee with a `test SRUs before you upload them!' stick.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: I did that many hours ago.
<damko> hi all
<Demon012> guys don't suppose there is an a centralised page I can go to that lists a series of how to's for for example: if there is no existing package go here: www.packaging.com, If there is already an existing package but it needs to be changed go here: www.repackage.com, if you have a package that needs to be sync'd go here: www.requestsync.com 
* Hobbsee attacks Fujitsu with a "isnt that the responsibility of the guy who's wanting it uploaded, and various other people" stick back
<dqdev> ok... I moved all the non-existing files under debian and the files that i edited where anyway under debian/
<dqdev> can you tell me, how to report the fix into launchpad?
<Demon012> am feeling guilty for asking so many questions
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: how many people will be on the CC?
* Hobbsee --> dinner, so in and out
<Demon012> like to be able to go read and then ask questions after 
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: I think it will be everyone, if they all get a majority.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: In this SRU, you wrote the patch.
<Hobbsee> bug #?
<dqdev> bug #80474
<ubotu> Malone bug 80474 in ketm "ketm doesn't have a desktop-file" [Wishlist,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/80474
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: bug #64848
<ubotu> Malone bug 64848 in k3d "[SRU: EDGY]   packaging typo - k3d does not install" [High,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/64848
<Hobbsee> no, for Fujitsu 
<dqdev> oh...
<Fujitsu> It did sort of fix it, but not usefully.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i see.
<dqdev> do I have to use REVU to upload the fix?
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Basically, if the old one was installed, it would still be broken. Thus, upgrades explode and the world ends.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: ahh.  fun
<StevenK> Hrm. I think my amd64 has the sata HPA bug/problem.
* Fujitsu heads to bed.
<Fujitsu> Goodnight all.
<Demon012> nn Fujitsu
<StevenK> Excellent. 2.6.17 still boots.
<dqdev> sorry all... I need some directions here. I have the fix of bug #80474 but I don't know how to upload it. Is there some manual on how to do that?
<ubotu> Malone bug 80474 in ketm "ketm doesn't have a desktop-file" [Wishlist,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/80474
<dqdev> should i use debdiff?
<Hobbsee> dqdev: sorry, yes
<dqdev> can you help me a liitle bit
<dqdev> i have the newly created .deb file
<dqdev> and then the original one
<dqdev> but I dont have the original deb
<StevenK> dqdev: debdiff is usually ran between two source packages.
<dqdev> file
<StevenK> dqdev: A debdiff between .debs for uploading a file is not helpful.
<dqdev> I didnt make any changes in source
<dqdev> everythig I did was to change some files under debian/
<StevenK> Which is a change to the source package.
<dqdev> and to add 2 files (also under /debian)
<dqdev> so, I should do: debdiff <old_debian> <new_debian> ??
<StevenK> dqdev: Yes, files under the debian directory get pulled into the .diff.gz, which is part of the source package.
<StevenK> dqdev: You should do debdiff <old.dsc> <new.dsc>
<dqdev> i only know how to create the new .deb file
<dqdev> according to the manual https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToFix
<StevenK> dqdev: You downloaded the source package already, right?
<dqdev> yes
<StevenK> dqdev: Did you also add a new version to the debian/changelog?
<dqdev> no
<StevenK> Okay, you should do that.
<dqdev> just add my comments at the end of the file?
<dqdev> okay, I will. And after that?
<StevenK> Not the end.
<StevenK> I'd suggest you use dch, actually.
<dqdev> is the change log automatically generated?
<StevenK> No, it isn't, and it follows a somewhat strict format.
<dqdev> ok
<dqdev> i ll check the dch command
<dqdev> after that?
<StevenK> After that, you need to build a source package.
<StevenK> One directory up, dpkg-source -b <directory>
<dqdev> cd <package> 
<dqdev> sudo apt-get build-dep <package> 
<dqdev> debuild -us -uc
<StevenK> Then you will have two .dsc's to run debdiff over.
<StevenK> Clear as mud?
<dqdev> ok ok
<dqdev> and the 2 new files (didnt exist before)? DO I simply upload them? 
<StevenK> No, they should appear in the debdiff.
<dqdev> ok... let me give it a try
<Hobbsee> the debdiff will use the newly generated files, and the old ones, to create the debdiff
<StevenK> And create a difference between the two source packages.
<crimsun> I love how topics in -devel move so quickly ;)
<Hobbsee> haha, yes
<Hobbsee> it's taking after #ubuntu
<StevenK> Heh
<StevenK> It's only because the toolchain isn't up yet. :-P
<Hobbsee> hehe
<pochu> TheMuso: are you back from the move? ready to sponsor me again? :)
<Hobbsee> pochu: he was here earlier, think he went to bed
<TheMuso> pochu: Not quite. I need to get fresh chroots created. I still have my others, but I think now is as good a time as any to make a fresh start, and get a chroot snapshot system of sorts going.
<jussi01> lol
<Hobbsee> or not
<pochu> TheMuso: yeah, I'm waiting for the debootstramp merge to create a gutsy chroot :)
<crimsun> (you can dist-upgrade a feisty chroot.)
* pochu reinstalled Feisty before final to test the images
<TheMuso> Same. I also need to create fresh sid/feisty chroots for i386 and powerpc.
<pochu> :)
<crimsun> ionte: that's because autosync stopped, and no one asked for a sync. 0.9-2 will automatically be synced once gutsy opens.
<TheMuso> Anyway, I think I will really be off to bed now. Its been a busy day.
<crimsun> bye luke
<dqdev> do i have to change the changelog no matter what?
<pochu> the repo is already open for upload, right? though the packages won't be built till the chaintools are finalized
<pochu> TheMuso: good night!
<StevenK> dqdev: You really ought to.
<pochu> is that right? ^
<crimsun> pochu: I'm using "opens" rather loosely (and vaguely), sorry
<ionte> crimsun: ok! thanks!
<dqdev> the debchange is damn complicated
<TheMuso> What package do we use for inetd like functionality, i.e tcpd etc?
<StevenK> rlinetd?
<crimsun> xinetd is in main, but it's not installed by default AFAICS
<TheMuso> ah ok
<kkubasik> hey, does an MOTU have a sec to look over 2 new packages in revu?
<kkubasik> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4880
<kkubasik> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4879
<dqdev> StevenK: Ok... changelog edited. Then you said that I have to build the source, by going one directory up from debian 
<dqdev> StevenK: and use the command dpkg-source -b
<dqdev> ?
<pochu> TheMuso: go to sleep!! :)
<StevenK> dqdev: Not one directory from debian, but the unpacked source.
<Hobbsee> dqdev: yep
<StevenK> dqdev: Sorry I wasn't clear.
<dqdev> cd ..
<dqdev> sorry
<dqdev> so: dpkg-source -b ketm-0.0.6 ???
<StevenK> Yup, exactly
<ScottK> kkubasik: Who is doing tangerine, you or RAOF?
<kkubasik> I uploaded one a while ago
<dqdev> i got the warning: executable mode 0755 of `debian/ketm.desktop' will not be represented in diff
<kkubasik> and didn't have the time to deal with it for a while, and it looks like he did some work on it
<kkubasik> but was having a hard time
<ScottK> OK.
* ScottK is not MOTU, but has comments.  Do you want them?
<Hobbsee> dqdev: that's fine, you dont need it to be executable - ie, you're not going to run the desktop file like a script
<StevenK> dqdev: Yes. debian/ketm.desktop probably shouldn't be executable anyway.
<dqdev> ok ok
<Hobbsee> [00:08]  <Belutz> is Hobbsee is the famous "sexy lady" from australia?
<Hobbsee> ooh scary...
<ScottK> kkubasik: ^^
<kkubasik> ScottK: most definatly
<ScottK> OK
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Oh geez
* ogra wonders if point sticks make sexy
<jussi01> lol
<ScottK> kkubasik: Look in debian/copyright.  You'll see there is still boilerplate not filled in.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: from -classroom :P
<Hobbsee> ogra: who knows
<jussi01> I wonder is hobbses picture anywhere?
<dqdev> StevenK: asd then what exacttly do i do to create the debdiff file (sorry for such amateur q's but it's the 1st time)
<jussi01> Hobbsee's*
<Hobbsee> jussi01: various places.
<Hobbsee> planet, the messed up one on LP
<jussi01> where, may i ask??
<ogra> Hobbsee, well, you said you'd bring it to sevilla :) we can check with and without ;)
<Hobbsee> other places
<Hobbsee> ogra: heh
<Hobbsee> Sysinfo for 'LongPointyStick': Linux 2.6.20-15-generic running KDE 3.5.6, CPU: GenuineIntel(R)CPUT2250@1.73GHz at 800 MHz (3458 bogomips), HD: 27/71GB, RAM: 730/1510MB, 123 proc's, 1.42h up
<ScottK> kkubasik: In debian/control Maintainer should be MOTU.  See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianMaintainerField for details.  Also package description should not have lines over 80 characters.
<StevenK> dqdev: You should then have two distinct .dsc's in your cwd
<ogra> Hobbsee, KDE ? the Kommon Doom Enhancement ? 
* ogra hides
<ScottK> kkubasik: Nevermind about the maintainer comment.  Read it wrong.
<ScottK> Urgh.
<Hobbsee> ogra: hah
* Hobbsee DOOMs ogra 
<kkubasik> okie, ;)
<ogra> heh
<dqdev> StevenK: the .deb just created and the one from the downloaded version?
<kkubasik> ok, fixed the copyright, and the line in the description
<StevenK> dqdev: Not the .deb, we're talking about source packages, not binary packages.
<ScottK> kkubasik: I don't know anything about mono, so the technical specifics of the dependencies I have no idea on.
<kkubasik> that's all been through the wringer
<ScottK> kkubasik: Don't consider fixing my comments as "Your package is good", just that's stuff I could tell needed to be fixed.
<kkubasik> oh, definatly, I know I still need man pages for the tangerine one
<dqdev> StevenK: yes. i have a newly created .dsc
<StevenK> dqdev: So now you can run debdiff <old.dsc> <new.dsc>
<dqdev> ok
<StevenK> That will spit out the debdiff to stdout
<StevenK> So you probably want to redirect it.
<ScottK> kkubasik: OK, I was gonna suggest a man page...
<ScottK> kkubasik: I took a quick look at the moodbar package.  The diff seems pretty huge at a glance.
<StevenK> Ah hah!
<StevenK> I have found Hobbsee's story on the Internet
<StevenK> http://www.ridiculopathy.com/projects/flash/stick2.jpg
<jussi01> lo
<jussi01> l
<Hobbsee> lol
<jsgotangco> haha
<Hobbsee> hi spam
<jsgotangco> lol
<jussi01> you know its kind of funny to see in launchpad: "bugs related to Sarah Hobbs"
<Hobbsee> jussi01: heh
<StevenK> Heh
<dqdev> StevenK: is there a way to write the results of the debdiff command to a file? cause the pic results to a pretty big message
<Demon012> dqdev: just a guess but you could do > diff.txt (diff.txt is a file where you want the text to be stored)
<Demon012> not used it before so it may or may not work
<ScottK> dqdev: debdiff package.v1.dsc package.v2.dsc > pick-a-name.debiff (as Demon012 says).
* ScottK meant to type .debdiff there at the end...
<dqdev> and that\s the file I am uploading in the launchpad???
<ScottK> Yes, but look at it first to make sure it's sane.
<ScottK> If you want someone else to check it, you can post it at pastebin.
<dqdev> well it looks ok except 2 things
<dqdev> yes... I ll do that
<dqdev> so that you can take a look
<dqdev> the 2 things are
<dqdev> the picture which looks of course strange
<dqdev> 2 lines at the end, that I never touched
<dqdev> let me pastebin it
<jekil> hello
<dqdev> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/17218/
<ScottK> hello jekil.
<dqdev> ScottK: what do you think?
<ScottK> By the last two lines, do you mean 525 & 526?
<dqdev> yes
<dqdev> i dont know what they really are
<dqdev> but anyway... otherwise?
<dqdev> do pics look like that?
<ScottK> Those don't worry about.  It's normal for the diff to have a few lines of unmodified text on the end.
* ScottK thinks so on the pics, but isn't sure.
<ScottK> Your updated package needs to have an Ubuntu version number.
<dqdev> in the changelof
<ScottK> When you went to modify debian/changelog, how did you do it.
<dqdev> dch [no arguments] 
<ScottK> dqdev: Yes.  Line 5 of your debdiff.
<ScottK> Ah.
<ScottK> If you do it dch -i it should set all that up for you.
<dqdev> dch -i and that\s all?
<ScottK> Yes.  Revert to the original debian/changelog (just copy it over from the original source package) and then to dch -i and add your entries.  Check to make sure your e-mail address is the one you want.
<ScottK> Good morning bddebian.  Good to see the old man is still with us.
<bddebian> heh
<crimsun> you two fogeys ;p
<bddebian> Hi ScottK, folk
<bddebian> crimsun: Thx buddy
<dqdev> ScottK: ok... I ll do that. Do i need to upload anything else in the launchpad, or that's just it?
<ScottK> All you upload it the corrected debdiff.
<dqdev> ok! THanks ScottK
<ScottK> You might want to come back here and have someone look at it again once you've fixed it up.
<dqdev> ScottK: come back "here". Here?
<ScottK> Yes
<ScottK> Pastebin it again and let someone look it over.
<dqdev> ScottK: Ok... let me work it over a little bit, and I ll be right back
<dqdev> ScottK: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/17221/ Can you take a look?
* ScottK is looking
<ScottK> dqdev: Please pastebin the entire debian/changes file for your update.
<dqdev> ScottK: that's all the changelog
<dqdev> doesnt containt anything else :$
<geser> dqdev: first you debdiff'ed in the wrong order: debdiff old.dsc new.dsc
<dqdev> you re right! 
<dqdev> stupid of me! 
<ScottK> dqdev: I don't want to see just your changelog changes, but the entire changelog.
<ScottK> As you have it now.
<dqdev> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/17226/
<geser> and the debian changelog should have a summeray of your changes. Something like "Added .desktop file (LP: #80474)"
<geser> and don't forget to set the distribution to gutsy (replace feisty with gutsy)
<dqdev> geser: the last 2 that you wrote, do I do them manuyally>?
<ScottK> dqdev: Yes.
<ScottK> Manually.
<geser> when you do dch -i you end in an editor where you can edit the changelog and add entries
<geser> and the second is also manually (first line of your changelog)
<ScottK> dqdev: Sorry if I confused you earlier.
<ScottK> dch -i gets the formatting/versioning correct.  You stil have to manually indicate what you did and (for now) the target distro.
<sharms> Laser_away: getting your presentation ready?
<dqdev> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/17228/
<dqdev> how doe this look like now?
* ScottK looks
<ScottK> Don't change urgency.  Ubuntu doesn't use it.
<dqdev> ok
<ScottK> Closing the bug should be (LP: #80474) vice (bug: #80474) - IIRC.  
<dqdev> (LP: #80474) vice (bug: #80474) - IIRC just like that?
<ScottK>  (LP: #80474)
<ScottK> The IIRC is If I Remember Correctly - I've gotten that wrong before.
<ScottK> Also, you lines 5 and 6 need to be one line.
<dqdev> hehehehe
<dqdev> yes. I saw that
<harrisony> <jono> everyone of those people needs to bought a beer for their incredible work
<harrisony> RE: the MOTU crew
<harrisony> :D good work people
<geser> dqdev: urgency=low is already the lowest urgency and Ubuntu doesn't use it
<geser> dqdev: "(LP: #<bugnumber>)" is the correct syntax for closing bugs through the changelog (though LP doesn't support it yet)
<dqdev> ok I think I m done
<dqdev> i ll paste bin the changelog
<dqdev> and the diff so you can take a look guys
<dqdev> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/17235/
<dqdev> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/17236/
<dqdev> and?
<ScottK> dqdev: Your previous changelog description was better.  Why did you shorten it?
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> I guess I should throw something together
<sharms> LaserJock: I hear people are demanding talks on EnhancedBash
<dqdev> cause it resulted in 2 lines
<LaserJock> sharms: well, the might have to keep waiting
<sharms> :)
<geser> dqdev: it's ok to have entries split over serveral lines
<LaserJock> sharms: what'll you give me if I slip a URL or it in my talk accidently?
<dqdev> geser: it complained
<geser> dqdev: you might want to validate the desktop file: $ desktop-file-validate ketm.desktop 
<LaserJock> s/or/for/
<geser> ketm.desktop: error: key "GenericName" is translated, but no untranslated version exists
<geser> ketm.desktop: warning: the fields "Name" and "Comment" have the same value
<sharms> oooooh, that would be slick (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Spec/EnhancedBash)
<geser> dqdev: what complained?
<dqdev> geser: the dch -i when my description went to 2 lines
<geser> dqdev: didn't you forget to indent the second line?
<dqdev> 'indent' means '\' ?
<dqdev> or just enter
<dqdev> ?
<geser> the spaces in front of the line
<geser> "  * first line"
<sharms> LaserJock: hmmm I think I can give you nixternals car.  
<geser> "   second line"
* nixternal don't have a car
<sharms> oh I already gave it away
<nixternal> I have a truck, hillbilly like
<LaserJock> I was going to say ...
<dqdev> geser: ok.. now I get it! 
<LaserJock> I don't know that I want anything of nixternal's
<sharms> haha
<nixternal> orly LaserJock, that's what you're on I see ;)
<dqdev> geser: DO i really need the validation of the .desktop file? 
<geser> it would be better if the file has no errors
<dqdev> ok 
<dqdev> i ll give it one more try
<geser> but it should also work with the file as is
<dqdev> it does!
<dqdev> i installed it
<dqdev> and it runs!
<dqdev> but anyway, i ll try to create a clean .desktop file
<nixternal> LaserJock: don't mess with me ;)
<nixternal> muhehehe
<dqdev> and add some more comments to the changelog
<LaserJock> nixternal: oh yeah? you gonna ice me?
<LaserJock> or have one of your goons do it?
<nixternal> no, but you will see
<nixternal> not goons, my gumbahs
<LaserJock> oh yeah
<nixternal> hehe
<jsgotangco> wow you guys are alive
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: alive? I just got up early cause I'm doing open week in ~ 30 mins and I should probably prepare something
<jellyfish2002> hi everyone
<jellyfish2002> sighz....
<ScottK> Hi jellyfish2002
<jellyfish2002> my wireless break after upgrading to feisty =(
<zul> this isnt a support channel
<ScottK> jellyfish2002: #ubuntu is for support.
<jellyfish2002> i know...
<dqdev> geser:  are you still herE?
<geser> yes
<dqdev> when i tried the dch -i , i get this ubuntu1 at the end
<dqdev> 0.0.6-19ubuntu1 for example
<geser> that's correct
<kkubasik> if someone could take a look? 
<kkubasik> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4882
<geser> it's the first ubuntu change to that debian package
<dqdev> well... then, when i try to install the package
<dqdev> ketm depends on ketm-data (= 0.0.6-19ubuntu1); however:
<dqdev>   Version of ketm-data on system is 0.0.6-19.
<dqdev> which I wasnt getting before
<dqdev> !!!
<dqdev> is it really necessary this -i argument?
<kkubasik> and this id someone gets a chance
<kkubasik> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4881
<dqdev> without it, things work
<geser> yes, that -i (= increment version) is necessary
<dqdev> and how do I treat the dependencies then?
<geser> apt sees only a package as new if the version is greater as the installed one
<geser> the package builds ketm and ketm-data
<dqdev> just ketm
<dqdev> ketm-data is another package
<geser> build from the same source
<geser> a source package can build multiple debs
<dqdev> ok ok
<dqdev> i also got ketm-data_0.0.6-19ubuntu1_all.deb
<dqdev> i ll try to install that first
<dqdev> ok
<dqdev> it worked!
<dqdev> geser: So, should I upload the debdiff?
<sharms> LaserJock's presentation will be the only one with hecklers 
<dqdev> is there something else missing? wanna see the debdiff or the changelog?
<LaserJock> ah man
<geser> dqdev: if you didn't change much to the last version, simply upload it to the bug
<dqdev> ok... I just fixed the .desktop and added more comments to the changelog
<geser> kkubasik: I gave a quick look at tangerine and there are some files with copyright from Novell
<kkubasik> ooo, ok
<dqdev> after I upload the bug-fix
<dqdev> do I have to change the status to fix-commited
<dqdev> and to Assigned to nobody???
<geser> kkubasik: and deps/daap-sharp is LGPL licensed. you should mention it in copyright
<kkubasik> ok
<geser> dqdev: subscribe the ubuntu-universe-sponsors team to the bug
<geser> dqdev: the sponsor will set it to "Fix committed" when he uploads it
<LaserJock> hmm, do you think if I had the open week people create a feisty pbuilder they'd be able to get it done by the end?
<LaserJock> has archive.u.c recovered?
<sharms> my speeds have been fast
<ScottK> LaserJock: Archive is normally responsive for me today.
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> I think I'll give it a go
<dqdev> and what about status
<dqdev> ?
<dqdev> do I leave it to In Progress?
<dqdev> or do I swet it to fix commited
<dqdev> ?
<sharms> I pull about 450k/s 
<ScottK> dqdev: The MOTU will set it to fix committed after they upload.
<dqdev> ok
<ScottK> Fix committed means in the archive, not to LP.
<dqdev> Assigned to?
<ScottK> Nobody.
<sharms> I am hoping you get a good crowd laserjock, as in a skilled crowd that can jump into contributing
<ScottK> subscribe UUS.
<ScottK> Do NOT assign UUS.
<dqdev> that's what I did
<ScottK> Good.
<dqdev> i subscribed to Ubuntu Sponsors for Uni
<dqdev> and i left the label
<dqdev> assigned to ME
* ScottK thinks it's better to set assigned back to None, your work is done.
<geser> dqdev: the debdiff look good
<geser> you can pick a new bug for fixing now :)
<ScottK> Heh -  "Honest, Vistas not selling THAT badly" - http://www.realtechnews.com/posts/4336
<dqdev> geser: he he! THanks! I will
<dqdev> to everybody: I think a good idea is to document some of the bug-fixes since some of them appear often and there might be a pattern. I know it would be great help for newbies. I started documenting my first bug-fix. Here is a preview on the way:
<dqdev> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Dqdev
<ScottK> dqdev: This is a very good idea.  We need more documentation on how to get started.
<dqdev> i know... and especially for the new guys like me it takes some time to figure out what;s going on
<dqdev> I mean... this .desktop easy fix took me 2 days (ashamed)
<dqdev> but beginnings are always slow
<dqdev> i ll expand the tutorial and send a version in a while
<ScottK> First one is always the hardest (by far).  Nothing to be ashamed about.
<ScottK> You've now contributed more code than probably 95% of Ubuntu users.  Be proud of that.
<ScottK> dqdev: ^^
<dqdev> ou've now contributed more code than probably 95% of Ubuntu users > I liked this one!!!! THanks for the suuport!
<danohuiginn> dqdev: thanks! This is something I wish I'd thought to do when I was first getting started, and being confused by everything
<Lutin> hey Toma- ;)
<Toma-> hiya
<Toma-> youre an motu now?!
<Lutin> indeed
<Toma-> sweet!
<xxxxx1> hi
<Lutin> Toma-: hehe, yes :)
<Toma-> Feel like maintaining librsvg2-2 ?
<Toma-> :>
<Lutin> hum...no :)
<Toma-> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/librsvg/+bug/76435
<ubotu> Malone bug 76435 in librsvg "Crashes e17, fixed with 2.16.1" [Undecided,Confirmed]  
<Toma-> :P
<xxxxx1> what are differences between dh_movefiles and dh_install?
<Lutin> Toma-: hehe, I was sure this was e17-related
<Toma-> huhu
<Lutin> when one says librsvg is buggy ... can't be anything but E guys :] 
<xxxxx1> can I use dh_install with the same parameters of dh_movefiles?
<Toma-> haha. well, i read the fixes in the changelog on 2.16.1 and they fixed like 3 or 4 ubuntu+upstream bugs in it and even state "DONT USE 2.16.0" lol
<Toma-> well its good to see you in motu Lutin. good luck and good work with it all :)
<Lutin> Toma-: 2.16.1 is in debian unstable, it will be merged or synced in gutsy
<Toma-> ahh good stuff
<Lutin> Toma-: heh, thanks :)
<kkubasik> anyone?
<kkubasik> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4883
<kkubasik> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4881
<xxxxx1> what are differences between dh_movefiles and dh_install ?
<Lutin> Toma-: you'll have to wait for gutsy though :)
<Toma-> ill be running bleeding edge as soon as it comes out. ive got a lil 5gb partition waiting for gutsy :)
<Lutin> xxxxx1: dh_movefiles moves fuiles in the right debian/ subdirectory so they can be installed by dh_install
<kkubasik> or this one, I'm just starting to revive it
<kkubasik> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4884
<Lutin> Toma-: :)
<danohuiginn> dqdev: I just had a look at your patch. You might want to read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianMaintainerField
<danohuiginn> for an entirely non-obvious change you're supposed to make
<dqdev> aha
<ScottK> danohuiginn: Good point.  That is going to need to be changed...
<ScottK> Sorry dqdev.  Should have mentioned that.
<dqdev> and what is that?
<dqdev> i hate entirely non-obvious'' things... heheehh
<danohuiginn> if this is the first change you're
<danohuiginn> making from debian, you need to update debian/control
<danohuiginn> to say that the package is now being maintained in ubuntu
<dqdev> ah...
<dqdev> and how do i do that?
<danohuiginn> you edit debian/control
<dqdev> manually?
<danohuiginn> change the existing maintainer field to XSBC-Original-Maintainer
<danohuiginn> I believe so (there may be an easier way I'm not aware of)
<danohuiginn> and set the maintainer field to UbuntuMOTUDevelopers<ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com>
<danohuiginn> (assuming the package is in universe)
<pochu> there's a tool in LP to change it, yeah
<dqdev> and then? do i create a new debdiff and upload it again to the launch pad?
<ScottK> Yes.
<dqdev> is there a way to take down the old file
<ScottK> You'll also need to update the changelog to mention you changed maintainer to MOTU.
<dqdev> or I just upload the new one?
<dqdev> ok
<ScottK> Just upload the new one.  Mention in the comment why you put up the new one.
<dqdev> the changelog and control were more frrustrating than fixing the real bug!
<danohuiginn> dqdev: I feel your pain. It does get a bit easier once you're used to it, though
<dqdev> i imagine
<dqdev> ok... i ll fix this 2 things
<dqdev> and upload the new debdiff
<danohuiginn> dqdev: also, you might like to jump into #ubuntu-classroom. There's a tutorial on packaging going on right now in there
<ScottK> dqdev: I had to upload my first patch 5 times before it was right.  Don't feel bad.
<danohuiginn> pochu: what is that tool you mentioned for changing the maintainer?
<pochu> I think it was written by Lutin
<pochu> Lutin: you around?
<Lutin> yep
<pochu> :)
<Lutin> any probleme with it ? (apart not being upstaded for gutsy ?)
<danohuiginn> Lutin: where do I find it?
<Lutin> danohuiginn: hum, I can't recall how to checkout the launchpad bzr :/
<Lutin> danohuiginn: try bzr co sftp://user_name_in_launchpad@bazaar.launchpad.net/~motu/motutools/trunk
<danohuiginn> thanks, Lutin
<Demon012> anyone know what REVU stands for?
<KalleDK> http://revu.tauware.de/
<dqdev> OK... that concludes the fix-tutorial on my first bug
<dqdev> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Dqdev
<dqdev> it might be of some use for the newcomers
<dqdev> if you find any mistakes, let me know
<ScottK> dqdev: You also should install the build-essential package.  Things in build-essential aren't called out in build-dep because they are assumed ot be there.
<dqdev> ScottK: I have it already
<ScottK> OK.  Missed it.
<ScottK> Good job LaserJock!!
<LaserJock> blah
<LaserJock> it was aweful :(
<ScottK> You did fine.
<bddebian> ??
<ScottK> It's a tough situation to be in.
<ScottK> openweek.
<ScottK> bddebian: He just did a presentation/Q&A
<bddebian> Ah nice
<dqdev> in the debian/control
<dqdev> do i HAVE to change that:
<dqdev> Uploaders: Sam Hocevar (Debian packages) <sam+deb@zoy.org>
<dqdev> as well?
<ScottK> No.
<dqdev> ok
<nixternal> LaserJock: good job man on that presentation!
<ScottK> Launchpad will credit you as uploader because it's your name in the changelog.
<dqdev> ok
<nixternal> LaserJock: it is kind of difficult to get everything MOTU in, in 1 hour
<LaserJock> a bit
<harrisony> LaserJock: it was brilliant!
<LaserJock> harrisony: it was horrible, but thanks for the questions
<harrisony> LaserJock: thank you for answering them, why was it so bad
<bddebian> harrisony: Ignore LaserJock.  He's just modest, he's THE MAN! :)
<harrisony> bddebian: he is
<dqdev> dpkg-source: warning: Version number suggests Ubuntu changes, but there is no XSBC-Original-Maintainer field
<dqdev> any ideas???
<LaserJock> harrisony: because I didn't get to anything about packaging :-)
<harrisony> LaserJock: haha
<bddebian> dqdev: Move the existing maintainer field to XSBC-Original-Maintainer and add Ubuntu MOTU as Maintainer:
<dqdev> is this correct:
<dqdev> Maintainer: Ubuntu MOTU developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com>
<bddebian> For that part, yes
<dqdev> what else do I have to change?
<bddebian> XSBC-Original-Maintainer:  should be what was originally in the Maintainer: field
<bddebian>  Maintainer: Joe Debian <joedeb@debian.org>  -->  XSBC-Original-Maintainer: Joe Debian <joedeb@debian.org>
<dqdev> I get it
<dqdev> dpkg-source: warning: missing information for output field Maintainer
<dqdev> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/17257/
<bddebian> Dude, you are killing me :-)
<bddebian> What was in the Maintainer: field before?
<dqdev> Maintainer: Debian Games Team <pkg-games-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>
<bddebian> Maintainer: Debian Games Team <pkg-games-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>
<bddebian> That should now be XSBC-Original-Maintainer: Debian Games Team <pkg-games-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>
<bddebian> Maintainer: Ubuntu MOTU developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com>
<dqdev> I understand it now
<bddebian> :)
<dqdev> thanks
<bddebian> NP
<sharms> dqdev: its good to see you getting involved, keep up the good work
<dqdev> sharms: thanks sharms. You have to show patience though. I m not a linux expert and i shoot all the Qs that come in mind. SO...
<sharms> I think that is a good thing, since asking questions shows what may be obvious to veterans and they might gloss over those topics on docs
<sharms> but when those questions are asked, they might remember that, helping to further speed up the education process
<Demon012> answering questions and teaching others also helps the person answering the questions to reinforce their knowledge
<sharms> Demon012: incorrect, we already know everything
<bddebian> dqdev: Hey, I don't know crap and I've been here a while now ;-)
<Demon012> heh sharms
<xxxxx1> lintian in REVU says gutsy distro is incorrect spec in changelog
<xxxxx1> lintian in REVU said gutsy distro is incorrect spec in changelog
<bddebian> Yeah
<xxxxx1> some reviewers ask me to change to gutsy, but lintian...
<xxxxx1> :)
<ScottK> Lintian is not updated yet.
<xxxxx1> ScottK: Hi Scott, so i can keep?
<ScottK> Yes
<xxxxx1> thx!
<bddebian> No, it still needs to be changed in the ChangeLog
<bddebian> Or did I mis-understand that statement?
<Demon012> QUESTION: What should you do if there is a program in the repositories with a bug but the program is not listed on launchpad
<harrisony> Demon012: lol
<Q-FUNK> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/109329
<ubotu> Malone bug 109329 in upgrade-system "nvidia upgrade failure" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
<Q-FUNK> lovely.  yet another use of "upgrade-system" as a virtual package name.  can someone please reassign?
<bddebian> Demon012: What package?
<Demon012> harrisony: reason I ask is soundconverter has a bug where it creates spaces as %20's instead of proper spaces yet it is not on launchpad
<Demon012> and for that matter the site for that program appears to be down
<harrisony> Demon012: try this link
<Demon012> actually forget what I said about the site being down (it was the other day but it is up again now)
<harrisony> !list sound-convertor
<ScottK> bddebian: xxxxx1's question was he'd changed it to gutsy and lintian complained unknown release.
<bddebian> I know and then he said leave it, and I understood that to mean leave it at Feisty?  Or did he mean leave the lintian warning? :-)
<ScottK> Leave it at gutsy and ignore the Lintian warning.
<bddebian> Ah. then yes sorry :-)
<ScottK> At least as I understood it.
<ScottK> Of course I'm old and slow, so I may be wrong.
<xxxxx1> ScottK: hahaha
<xxxxx1> Matusalem
<xxxxx1> methuselah
<bddebian> Demon012: You mean this: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/feisty/+source/soundconverter  
<bddebian> ??
<dqdev> ScottK: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ketm/+bug/80474
<dqdev> ScottK: I added the control changes
<dqdev> you might wanna take a look
<Q-FUNK> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/upgrade-system/+bug/104829
<ubotu> Malone bug 104829 in upgrade-system "deleted old kernal headers" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
<Q-FUNK> this one is a real challenge, though.  no idea what to reassign it to
<kkubasik> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4883
<kkubasik> if anyone has a moment
<kkubasik> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4881
<ScottK> dqdev: Looks reasonable to me, but I'm not a MOTU.
<dqdev> ok
<dqdev> thanks
<dqdev> i ll leave it like that 
<dqdev> and see what they say from "Above"
<ScottK> Q-FUNK: I'd reject the bug.  He upgraded straight from Dapper to Edgy and that's not supported.
<ScottK> err Dapper to Feisty
<Q-FUNK> ScottK: good point.
<ScottK> Be nice though...
<Q-FUNK> actualy, 2.6.10 is probably older than Dapper.  maybe Breezy or Hoary
<Q-FUNK> IIRC 2.6.17 was Edgy, 2.6.15 Dapper
<zul> Q-FUNK: 2.6.10 was hoary
<zul> I should know I had the pleasure of backporting security patches to hoary
<Q-FUNK> ScottK: as I realized, I'm still not -dev.  I agree with the reject verdict, but I probably cannot close it myself.
<Q-FUNK> zul: :)
<ScottK> Q-FUNK: Just mark is rejected.  Say why (nicely and politely) and it's done.  That's all the closing there is.
<ScottK> Good point
<ScottK> about 2.6.10 being really old.
<zul> hoary is not supported anymore either
<ScottK> 2.6.10 is Breezy.  Not supported.
<ScottK> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kernel-source-2.6.10
<zul> uh...no..
<zul> linux-source-2.6.10
<tepsipakki> 2.6.10 is hoary, 2.6.12 is breezy ;)
<ScottK> OK.  Sorry for the confusion.  Not supported either way.
<tepsipakki> right
<Demon012> can someone confirm bug #109365 for me?
<ubotu> Malone bug 109365 in soundconverter "soundconverter replaces spaces with %20's when set to output to the same location as input file" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/109365
<Demon012> its my bug but want to make sure that it can be recreated on someone else's comptuer
<Demon012> computer*
<harrisony> Demon012: put more info like feisty or edgy or dapper and version info,etc..
<harrisony> wait sorry
<harrisony> didnt see it
<Demon012> that's np
<grayman> meh
<grayman> that's probably the worst independence day ever
<Demon012> also need to edit it really (it converts any special characters to hex not just spaces (I noticed it converted the & to %26 aswell after I posted it))
<grayman> everyone is partying outside and me bashing bugs
<Demon012> well atleast you got some useful stuff done grayman
<harrisony> Independence day? whats that
<Demon012> wb LaserJock
<jussi01> is there a way to delete comments you made on a bug...
<jussi01> ?
<LaserJock> jussi01: nope
<jussi01> grrr, i just commented on the wrong bug... had 2 open in different windows
<harrisony> jussi01: happened to me as well
<LaserJock> there is a plan to add a "Edit within 5min" feature
<jussi01> bug 95018 and bug 96529
<ubotu> Malone bug 95018 in ktorrent "[apport]  ktorrent crashed with SIGSEGV" [Medium,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/95018
<ubotu> Malone bug 96529 in ktorrent "[apport]  ktorrent crashed with SIGSEGV in free()" [Medium,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/96529
<grayman> eh
<grayman> independence of Israel
<grayman> heh
<harrisony> LaserJock: your back :) um...is working with motu and packages a "full time job"
<LaserJock> grayman: well, it can be software independence day with you working on bugs ;-)
<LaserJock> harrisony: me personally? or in generally
<pochu> LaserJock: nice session :)
<grayman> heh
<harrisony> wll i was told that its not just turning packages into debs and its quite long and like a similar to a full time job
<LaserJock> it really is what you make of it
<LaserJock> some people have time and interest and spend waaaay too much time at it
<LaserJock> some people just do it know and then
<Demon012> LaserJock: what is the quickest way to make a package (I have seen checkinstall however is a checkinstall package suitable for upload?)
<jussi01> dammit, how do I mark it confirmed? or can I? should I?
<LaserJock> Demon012: checkinstall won't work for uploading because it doesn't produce a source package
<LaserJock> Demon012: we upload only source packges
<Demon012> ah yes I recall that now from earlier
<LaserJock> Demon012: about the easiest way I can think of is to find a similar existing source package and base your's on that
<jussi01> Demon012: this is a helpful document: http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-debhelper.html
<Demon012> ty jussi01
<Demon012> also just how active is #ubuntu-motu-school?
<Demon012> found it through one of the pages posted earlier in the #ubuntu-classroom
<LaserJock> ah
<LaserJock> well right now it's pretty dead I think
<Demon012> yeah atm only me and the bot
<LaserJock> we haven't had a MOTU School session for a while
<LaserJock> we need to kick that back into activity
<LaserJock> in general this channel acts as motu-school
<Demon012> ok that's good
<LaserJock> we generally just used motu-school when we had a specific "session" so it didn't interfer with normal discussion here
<Burgwork> LaserJock: ping
<LaserJock> Burgwork: pongy pongy pongy
<Burgwork> LaserJock: yur gots mail
<Demon012> heh
<LaserJock> oh no
<LaserJock> not ...... mail!!!!!!
<Demon012> run LaserJock run!
<Demon012> =)
* harrisony sings blues clues we just got a letter thing
* LaserJock decides to open Burgwork's email with a open source email client, just in case he's added some FSF virus ;-)
<Burgwork> LaserJock: nah, it is jason's email
<LaserJock> for gutsy?
<bddebian> harrisony: hehe
<harrisony> hehehe
<Burgwork> LaserJock: well, going to see if I can get an UVF filed
<Burgwork> sru, rather
<LaserJock> SRU?
<Demon012> anyone free to help me confirm a bug isn't just limited to my computer? bug #109365 (unless harrisony is doing it)
<ubotu> Malone bug 109365 in soundconverter "soundconverter replaces spaces with %20's when set to output to the same location as input file" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/109365
<Burgwork> bloody acronyms
<LaserJock> :-)
<bddebian> Burgwork: :-)
<harrisony> Demon012: ill try poke at it'
<Demon012> ok cool ty harrisony
<Burgwork> i;m going to nmu your sru until the uvf come out your ears!
<LaserJock> Burgwork: well, just make sure to file your SRU ASAP or it'll be DOA. For sure do it before UVF or it'll be MIA. ;-)
<Demon012> rofl these abbriviations are too much for me atm (haven't a clue about 98% of them)
<Demon012> lol LaserJock
<harrisony> Demon012: gah, cant do now..ill do it when  get home, stupid computer wont be nice
<Demon012> ? what's your computer doing =S
<LaserJock> Burgwork: and it better not FTFBS ;-)
<harrisony> Demon012 wait its workin\
<Demon012> ok cool
* LaserJock tries out Thunderbird 2.0
<Demon012> btw when testing this bug make sure you don't click the delete source file check box in the preferences
<Demon012> I did the other day when I found it and deleted the folder with some of my music in it
<Demon012> the output folder that is
<ScottK> Hurray! The man is here to fix my air conditioning...
<Demon012> =)
<harrisony> Demon012: not doing it here
<Demon012> mmm maybe it is fat32's fault then 
<Demon012> gonna do some more testing on it then
<Demon012> ty harrisony
<Demon012> argh ok its not fat32
<Demon012> mmm think I better go look at the debugging how to's to see if I can resolve this by myself then
<Demon012> hi doko_
<Demon012> hi xxxxx1
<xxxxx1> hi
<xxxxx1> can someone review my updated tpm-tools on revu?
<gpocentek> LaserJock: tell me if you sucessfully import thunderbird 1.5 settings, mails, ...
<gpocentek> it didn't work for me
<deep> hi All
<ivoks> deep: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributeToUbuntu :)
<ivoks> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributeToUbuntu#head-04a0b0f238d699cf8e8e00b1928113ae08cb8813
<ivoks> this part
<LaserJock> gpocentek: seems to work fine in OS X :-)
<deep> ivoks, I ll check
<statik> hi there motus
<somerville32> hiya
<statik> there is a bug which is irritating me, so I thought I might take a stab at helping fix it
<statik> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/subversion/+bug/91848
<ubotu> Malone bug 91848 in subversion "segfault when importing libsvn.wc in python 2.4 on feisty/amd64" [Medium,Confirmed]  
<statik> still quite newbie to packaging
<statik> I think what I want to do is try backing out various patches from the ubuntu version of this package to find which one causes the crash. 
<statik> anyone feel like holding my hand through the best way to do this?
<statik> so far I have done 'apt-get build-dep python-subversion', and 'apt-get source -b python-subversion'. The second step got me the source but failed to build
<ScottK> statik: How did you try to build it?
<ScottK> Did you install build-essential?
<statik> ScottK: yes, I've got build-essential. I tried 'apt-get source -b python-subversion', and the build phase failed with dh_testroot saying I needed to use fakeroot
<statik> ScottK: I ran apt-get build-dep python-subversion first
<ScottK> OK.  That doesn't get build-essential.  That's why I asked.  It's assumed.
<statik> gotcha
<ScottK> !pbuilder
<ubotu> pbuilder is a system to easily build packages in a clean chroot environment. To get started with PBuilder, see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<ScottK> statik: I'd look into pbuilder to make sure you are building in a clean environment.
<statik> ScottL: I'll set one of those up now
<statik> ScottK: I'll set one of those up now
<statik> also I will type more carefully
<ScottK> K
<psusi> is anyone familliar with imake?  I'm trying to build the dapper version of tightvncserver on edgy to see if going back to the dapper version fixes a regression from the upgrade, but the build fails
<psusi> says Imakefile.c: error: Imake.tmpl: No such file or directory
<xxxxx1> trousers updated.
<ScottK> psusi: No imake in Feisty: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/imake
<psusi> huh?  it's being used by the tightvnc package
<ScottK> Maybe the package name is different now.
<ScottK> psusi: Is it being used by the Feisty version?
<psusi> yea
<ajmitch> morning
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<ajmitch> poor poor siretart 
<psusi> boy this is weird
<psusi> the tightvnc source package from dapper fails to build under pbuilder on feisty... yet builds outside of pbuilder
<psusi> err, sorry... on edgy
<psusi> seems that imake is provided in the xutils-dev package
<psusi> and tightvnc doesn't list that as a buid-dep... instead it lists xutils twice... I thik one of those was supposed to be -dev
<ScottK> psusi: Try to change that in your local source and then see if pbuilder will build it.
<psusi> it also says it build-depends on lynx, and it builds fine without it
<psusi> that's just weird
<psusi> nope, still fails to build under pbuilder after fixing the xutils-dev
<ScottK> psusi: Same error?
<psusi> yea
<ScottK> psusi: According to Launchpad it's to be found somewhere in xorg https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+search?text=Imakefile.c
<sacater> hmm, ive noticed people are treating ubunty as guarenteed software
<soothsay> If I want to replace an existing package with my own patched version, what steps should I follow?
<sacater> soothsay: talk to an motu ;D
<shawarma> soothsay: Just install it?
<soothsay> shawarma: And how does apt handle upgrades? Does it mask the package?
<shawarma> soothsay: Depends on how you versioned it.
<shawarma> soothsay: You can choose to keep it up-to-date and put your own suffix on the package version or you can just put your version on hold (echo packagename hold | sudo dpkg --set-selections).
<soothsay> shawarma: Presumably I don't want to automatically upgrade said package (without applying the patches). What should I do?
<shawarma> soothsay: Put it on hold.
<soothsay> shawarma: Is that an appropriate long term solution?
<shawarma> soothsay: No.
<shawarma> soothsay: The appropriate long term solution is to get your patch into the package.
<shawarma> soothsay: What's it about?
<soothsay> shawarma: Nothing particular. I use several patches to some packages that are not useful upstream.  In gentoo I can handle this with an overlay and package masking. I thought there were similar mechanism in dpkg.
<shawarma> soothsay: Not really. that sort of thing doesn't fit all that well into the binary package way of doing things.
<shawarma> soothsay: Do you have an example of one of your patches?
<sacater> SIGH, quick question on my dads behalf (wind*** user), would opening up SIP ports on the router present a risk to internet banking?
<shawarma> soothsay: I'm just curious what is so important that you want to go through the trouble, but not important enough to be shared. :-)
<sacater> he keeps them locked from paronoid fear
<shawarma> sacater: Depends.
<shawarma> sacater: What is he using for SIP?
<ajmitch> hi shawarma 
<shawarma> sacater: An ata?
<shawarma> ajmitch: Ahoy there.
<sacater> shawarma: no no, im using a sip client, he just wont unblock those FUDGING ports
<shawarma> sacater: Software on his Windows machine?
<sacater> i can call out
<sacater> but people cant call me
<shawarma> sacater: Ah, it's for *you*? 
<sacater> moi
<shawarma> sacater: So the ports will be forwarded to *your* machine, not his?
<sacater> in theory yes
<shawarma> sacater: :-) but?
<sacater> hes worried that hackers will come in on those ports and f*** things up on his precious wind***
<sacater> and is pi**** me off
<shawarma> sacater: The ports will be forwarded to your machine?
<shawarma> sacater: Not his?
<soothsay> shawarma: It seems that the 'binary' package way of doing things would at least provide *some* mechanism for managing modified source packages (different compile options, patches, ... etc)
<sacater> should be
<shawarma> sacater: Then there's no problem.
* sacater goes to parler avec ma pere
<shawarma> sacater: If you just configure the router to forward the connections to your machine, there's no problem.
* ajmitch watches the language get mangled
* ScottK takes one look at #ubuntu-motu and goes back to doing something else.
<soothsay> shawarma: Have you tried stun
<shawarma> soothsay: Yes.
<ajmitch> ScottK: wise choice
<shawarma> soothsay: Well, since "we" (Ubuntu) compile all the packages before they even reach the user's computer, it's kind of hard for the user to change any compile flags.
<sacater> shawarma: im back, he says there is, once hackers get into the router, they can try for my machine or his
<sacater> :o
<soothsay> shawarma: What about source packages?
<shawarma> sacater: Well, the point is that they won't get any more "into the router" than they do already. What he'd be enabling is just forwarding for certain things to your machine. If the router is hackable, it's going to be so independently of those port forwardings.
<shawarma> soothsay: What about them?
<shawarma> sacater: Not sure you should tell him that, though.
<soothsay> shawarma: Those aren't compiled before hand
<shawarma> sacater: He sounds like the kind of guy who would suffer an aneurism if he realised that.
<shawarma> soothsay: Right. Also, they're not automatically updated.
<shawarma> soothsay: You are of course free to disable all the deb lines from your sources.list and fetch sources instead an compile them.
<shawarma> soothsay: You're just going to be missing out on all the automatic update goodness.
<dabaR> sacater: find some writing that explains what you guys are talking about, how forwarding ports to one machine does not jeopardize the other machines, and have your dad read it, and change his mind
<soothsay> shawarma: Aha. So downloading the source package, building and installing the deb will install the package (and registered with dpkg) and not automatically update (for that single package)?
<shawarma> soothsay: to be perfectly honest: If your patches are really so esoteric that noone else could benifit from them, it seems like your attacking your problem in the wrong way.
<shawarma> soothsay: Yes.
<shawarma> soothsay: Er... No.
<shawarma> soothsay: Heh..
<soothsay> shawarma: ?
<shawarma> soothsay: If you still have the binary archives in your sources.list and a new version turns up, apt-get will install it on your first upgrade.
<shawarma> soothsay: If you remove the binary repositories from your sources.list, nothing is going to be automagically updated.
<soothsay> shawarma: Is that like shooting a fly with a cannon?
<soothsay> s/shooting/killing
<shawarma> soothsay: More like trying to screw in a screw with a hammer.
<shawarma> soothsay: It works, but it's just not right.
<bddebian> Isn't that how you are supposed to screw in screws?
<shawarma> bddebian: If all you got is a hammer..
<siretart> ajmitch: poor me?
<ajmitch> siretart: you get to share a room with me at UDS for a week
<bddebian> heh, theres a delayed response :)
<ScottK> Screwing in screws with a hammer works better than screwing in a lightbulb with a hammer.
<siretart> ajmitch: w00t! :)
<bddebian> Heya siretart
<bddebian> ScottK: Good point
<shawarma> ScottK: Or screwing in screwdrivers with a lightbulb..
* ScottK is old so I know all kinds of wise stuff like that.
<bddebian> hehe
<LaserJock> lol
<sacater> dabaR: shawarma: easier said than done, he has read to many web reviews
<sacater> blame us innocent hackers :o
<sacater> he emailed his mate at BT about it
<siretart> ajmitch: probably we'll visit many BoFs together, so sharing one room seems a good idea to me! cool! :)
<ajmitch> siretart: yeah, what time do you arrive in seville?
<sacater> probably get a co-operate 'use our blah-blah' response
<sacater> corperate*
* ScottK waits to be pointed to the Automatix source code (in other screwy news) http://forums.pcworld.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=31313#31313
<shawarma> corporate, actually. :-)
<shawarma> Not that it matters.
<siretart> ajmitch: May 6, 1640 arrives the plane on sevilla
<siretart> may 5, that is
<ajmitch> siretart: may 6? I thought it should be the 5th?
<siretart> mistyped
<siretart> ssh is quite laggy here
<ajmitch> ok :)
* ajmitch will get into the airport at about 2310, may 5
<shawarma> siretart, ajmitch: We should exchange phone number so that we can hook up saturday night. I arrive at around 2100, I think.
<siretart> wow, that's late
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> so I'll be getting in & sleeping
<shawarma> Boring.
<shawarma> :-p
<ajmitch> shawarma: long flight
<siretart> ajmitch: and I'd expect you to be quite jetlagged. what time is it for you right now?
<shawarma> It's not like you've been doing much for the last 30 hours.
<ajmitch> 8:52am
<shawarma> That's mad.
<ajmitch> on tuesday
* bddebian sneaks into ajmitch's luggage
<shawarma> *THAT'S* mad.
<ajmitch> shawarma: you're right, I'll just be sitting down most of the 30 hours :)
<ajmitch> bddebian: sorry, I'm not flying via the US
<bddebian> bastage
<shawarma> It's weird. I consider myself a pretty smart person, but that I can sit here and chat with people who are already at Tuesday just fucks with my head.
<bddebian> heh
<siretart> ajmitch: wow. so you're just getting up at the time you'll arrive
<ajmitch> shawarma: I'm used to everyone being behind
<ajmitch> siretart: oh I can adjust my sleep schedule to match, that's ok ;)
<shawarma> ajmitch: I'm just glad I'm not where you are. If I were in Kiwiland and I talked to someone in L.A. or similar $TZ, my head would blow up. 
<shawarma> ajmitch: How can they always be at yesterday?
<ajmitch> quite simple, really
<shawarma> ajmitch: No way, man. The date line creeps me out.
<shawarma> The date line at 180 degrees longitude, of course. Not the kind of date line you call when you're lonely.
<LaserJock> wahooo!
<shawarma> Totally!
<LaserJock> my sparc is delievered
<shawarma> <o/
<shawarma> Er..
<shawarma> \o/ !
<siretart> LaserJock: so sparky is not good enough?
<siretart> jk ;)
<bddebian> Damn, LaserJock gets a Sparc and I lot my Feisty laptop :'-(
<bddebian> Grr s/lot/lost/
<geser> bddebian: what happened?
<ajmitch> bddebian: lost?
<LaserJock> siretart: well, my own personal sparking is a bit more fun
<bddebian> Had to take it back to the office.  We've had a freakin' rash of stolen and broken laptops at work so I had to give my second one up :-(
<ajmitch> aw
<siretart> LaserJock: I can imagine :)
* ajmitch wouldn't mind another machine or two at home, if it weren't for the noise & lack of room
<geser> bddebian: so a co-worker uses now your feisty installation?
<bddebian> geser: No, even worse, it was re-imaged with Windows XP :)
<tsmithe> bddebian, whyy?!!!!
<tsmithe> you should not let this happen :P
* ajmitch overloads on punctuation
<tsmithe> :P
<tsmithe> ajmitch, surely you can minimise the noise with lm-sensors and fancontrol?
<ajmitch> only if you have a really quiet box anyway
<tsmithe> well, my only noise on normal load now comes from the cpu :)
<tsmithe> s/cpu/psu/
<ajmitch> if you're willing to run hot, sure
<bddebian> tsmithe: Because that's what pays my bills
<ajmitch> but if you have several hard drives in a system, it pushes the heat & noise level up a little
<tsmithe> bddebian, poor guy :)
<tsmithe> yep. but it's not gonna get above 50 degrees C without a fan on
<tsmithe> so it generally stays below that
<ajmitch> and when you get several running at once, it starts to add up
<tsmithe> hmm yea
<tsmithe> ah well, i'm off to bed
<tsmithe> night all :0
<tsmithe> *:)
<bddebian> Later gang
#ubuntu-motu 2007-04-24
<TheMuso> Hey MOTUs.
<ajmitch> hi TheMuso 
<Lutin> hi TheMuso 
<TheMuso> Hey Lutin.
<Lutin> TheMuso: back online eventually ? :)
<TheMuso> Lutin: Indeed.
<sharms> what do you guys think: http://www.sharms.org/blog/?p=95
<sharms> I promise, nothing about enhancedbash there
<ajmitch> you have to find a couple of 'very experienced MOTUs'
<sharms> right, I think we have that covered
<ajmitch> how often do you propose these sessions be run?
<sharms> once a week, then I assume the novices will gain experience and the project will lose momentum and die, hopefully giving us ~5 new people who can help
<ajmitch> it may work, if time isn't wasted on lots of simple questions
<ajmitch> ie, people must expect to do some research beforehand
<ajmitch> 5-10 packages in an hour is optimistic
<sharms> I am just talking about things like .desktop fixes etc
<pochu> hi TheMuso
<sharms> and that you would have 5-10 people working on each package individually
<Demon012> sharms: just at a glance are you proposing MOTU Classes?
<TheMuso> Hey pochu
<ajmitch> whoever is leading the session will need to keep track of who is doing what & where they're at
<sharms> A little different because it is agenda driven as in getting packages actually fixed
<Simon80> sharms: it's* ad sponsored drinking... I'm a grammar whore
<sharms> yeah i added that in last week when I was on digg, hastily
<ajmitch> even .desktop fixes can take a bit of time for someone who's new, and needs some explanation
<sharms> I think slomo was able to explain it to me in under an hour
<sharms> provided they read any docs before hand I think it can be done
<ajmitch> sharms: and you propose that someone explain this & hold the hands of 5-10 people within an hour
<ajmitch> each package being different
<pochu> slomo: I've packaged liferea 1.2.12, so if you haven't done it yet, feel free to upload it :)
<pochu> slomo: http://emilio.pozuelo.org/deb/
<ajmitch> an hour is really quite short :)
<sharms> well I am hoping that most of the time the people are trying really hard to make it happen, so that they wont all just be on IRC the whole time
<sharms> so the motu experts time may be taken up, but by different people as they run into different issues
<ajmitch> people will need to know the basics of building a source package, a binary package, testing, creating .desktop files, etc
<sharms> yeah I just know people learn quicker by doing if they are like me, just a way to get feet wet etc
<sharms> hopefully they have already attended the open week sessions etc, maybe read some transcripts of prior motu-school sessions
<sharms> but just have trouble piecing it all together
* ajmitch thinks that you could easily have more than 5-10 people showing up & asking questions, too
<sharms> its a risk, but hopefully the next week, they dont ask those same questions
<ajmitch> how long do you think this could be sustained?
<sharms> well I am a realist a times, and I fully expect for the idea to lose momentum after a month and a half or so
<ajmitch> motu school had a lot of enthusiasm as well
<sharms> and that would only take 6 hours of total expert MOTU time
<ajmitch> but not many people willing to commit to a time & teach
<sharms> thats why I buy them beer
<ajmitch> well that's fine, I hardly fit into the appropriate category :)
<sharms> I just know what I would like to see, for myself, and think that there are a lot of untapped resources of people who are just overwhelmed
<sharms> if the people in #ubuntu can sit on IRC for 6 hours a day and not contribute, and we can turn a few into contributors, that could be a lot of potential improvements
* ajmitch can sit in #ubuntu-motu 6+ hours a day & not contribute
<pochu> have a nice day!
<LaserJock> sharms: I think your proposal can be basically summed up as "get MOTU School going and do interesting sessions"
<ajmitch> LaserJock!!!!1
<ajmitch> hi
<LaserJock> hola andrew
<KalleDK> Hey LaserJock nice session
<LaserJock> thanks
<sharms> yeah but I am really looking for work-based sessions
<sharms> where as they get real experience
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> I agree
<LaserJock> we need a mixture of "Packaging 101" sessions for overview
<LaserJock> and working sessions
<LaserJock> where we really get something useful done
<ajmitch> sharms: recruit expert MOTUs like laserjock
<sharms> thats kind of one of the people I had in mind :)
<LaserJock> hmm, I was thinking of real experts ;-)
<sharms> anyone who is a potential mentor should be qualified enough
<ajmitch> that's me out
<sharms> basically anyone other than nixternal
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> he's a shady fellow ;-)
<sharms> ha
<LaserJock> he threatened to ice me last night
<LaserJock> or have his gumbahs doe it
<LaserJock> *do
<ajmitch> hah
<ajmitch> I'm sure he's harmless
<sharms> I have played Rich (nixternal) in that TC-Elite combat game, he has no aim
<KalleDK> Hey LaserJock... I would like to try to make some packing... As I can see hellanzb is v0.10 but on their main its 0.13.. where would i start to get this updated :)
<TheMuso> KalleDK: Does Debian have the newer version yet?
<KalleDK> Dunno
<TheMuso> Wouldn't hurt to check.
<KalleDK> Where :)
<TheMuso> packages.debian.org for a start
<KalleDK> Nope their at 0.10 also
<TheMuso> Ok. I would check bugs for that package at bugs.debian.org to see whether someone has requested a new version.
<KalleDK> I get something there
<KalleDK> #418580: New version available
<KalleDK> Package: hellanzb (0.12; fixed: hellanzb 0.13-1); Reported by: Maik Zumstrull <Maik.Zumstrull@gmx.de>
<KalleDK> Done: Adam Ccile (Le_Vert) <gandalf@le-vert.net>; Will be archived in 16 days.
<TheMuso> debian bug 418580
<ubotu> Debian bug 418580 in hellanzb "New version available" [Normal,Closed]  http://bugs.debian.org/418580
* LaserJock discovers the joys of a newsreader
* KalleDK have a ubuntu server with HellaNZB + Samba + ZussaWEB
<TheMuso> KalleDK: There is a chance that packages.debian.org is out of date. By the looks of that report, its already in Debian, which means that it will be updated in the gutsy cycle.
<KalleDK> Which means I shouldn't touch it
<TheMuso> there is no need to, no.
<TheMuso> I'll check for sure when I have access to my sid chroot again.
<KalleDK> Hm dammit :P
<Fujitsu> packages.qa.debian.org is your friend.
<ajmitch>   hellanzb |     0.13-1 | http://apt-proxy sid/main Sources
<ajmitch> or apt-cache madison
<Fujitsu> That works too.
<LaserJock> ajmitch: show off ;-)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: hm?
<LaserJock> your fancy madison usage
<ajmitch> hah
<KalleDK> Well can you find a tiny winy small thing I can package so I can test/learn/evolve???
<ajmitch> you mean something that's been built into apt for ages?
<KalleDK> Dont know.. just want to learn howto :)
<Demon012> KalleDK: 
<Demon012> http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-debhelper.html
<Demon012> that seems to be the easiest one I have found to start off with so far
<Demon012> this one is also useful > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/PackagingBasics
<KalleDK> Thx Demon012
* shawarma falls asleep over the keyboard
<Demon012> actually look at the first bit of the 2nd one first so you know what to install to start off with
<Demon012> then go back and do the first 1
<shawarma> Good thing I've got that nipple thing on my thinkpad. It makes for a soft landing.
<enyc> shawarma: hrrm wonder if your keyboard makes asdfghjkl ar aoeuidhtns as your nose pressess buttons in a line ;-)
<KalleDK> shawarma... Got a tutorial CHECK - Got Alex Gaudino feat Crystal Waters Destination Calabria CHECK - Got 10 RedBull CHECK
<shawarma> enyc: No, the nipple prevents that too. It has many uses.
<Demon012> heh that's what they term as qwerty'ing
<enyc> Demon012: bit I dont have qwerty...
<shawarma> I'm off for tonigt. Goodnight, guys!
<shawarma> tonight, even.
<enyc> Demon012: but I am in bed and have a clickykeyboard next to pillow ;-)
<Demon012> heh azerty? =)
<enyc> Demon012: no ;-) ',.pyfgcrl/= aoeuidhtns-\ qjkxbmwvz
<Demon012> lol kk
<shawarma> abcde ftw!
* Demon012 better goto bed soon else he will be qwerty'ing
<shawarma> I have a keyboard where the keys are in alphabetical order. Good fun.
<enyc> but I can deal with qwertyuiop asdfghjkl zxcvbnm too
<shawarma> Fun fact: The X is still in the same place.
<shawarma> go figure.
<enyc> hrrm my A and M are in qwerty places
* shawarma wanders off
<LaserJock> darn it, I need to find a Sun keyboard
<KalleDK> Got a G11 keyboard :P
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Why'd you get a SPARC?
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: cause it was free
<LaserJock> I just need a keyboard so I can get it set u p
<LaserJock> *up
<jdong> Tasks for the Sun owner..... (1) Use xmodmap to swap ctrl and capslock.....
<LaserJock> hmm, well I can get one on ebay for ~ $20
<sharms> LaserJock: I am out of town til friday, but I might have one in my storage facility
<sharms> I think I definitely have a sparc video out -> crt thing
<LaserJock> sharms: I'm not sure I need one
<LaserJock> sharms: I *think* it's got a regular VGA output
<sharms> ah I had the little lunchbox size sparcs
<LaserJock> in addittion to the sparc video out
#ubuntu-motu 2007-04-29
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-motu.log
<Kmos> Hobbsee: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4946 -> can you check it ?
<Kmos> I want to start to another package :-) hehe
<harrisony> Kmos: i would but im not a member of MOTU but keep asking :D
<Kmos> harrisony :(
<Kmos> thx anyway
<harrisony> !revu
<ubotu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<harrisony> good they added it
<Fujitsu> harrisony: Hasn't that been there forever?
<harrisony> Fujitsu: last time i checked it it said it couldnt find it but i think i might of misspelt it
<jekil> hello
<harrisony> !hi | jekil 
<ubotu> jekil: Hi! Welcome to #ubuntu-motu!
<Nafallo> lol
<Kmos> !info librplay3
<ubotu> librplay3: Shared libraries for the rplay network audio system. In component universe, is optional. Version 3.3.2-11ubuntu1 (feisty), package size 43 kB, installed size 124 kB
<Kmos> how to edit pbuilder sources.list ?
<Kmos> to include universe
<TheMuso> Kmos: sudo pbuilder login --save-after-login
<TheMuso> Then copy the sources.list file into the pbuilder chroot that gets unpacked. Then exit the chroot again.
<Kmos> TheMuso: nice.. thx
<Kmos> TheMuso: you've time to check this http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4946 (ddclient)
<Fujitsu> Evening, TheMuso.
<jussi01> TheMuso: do you not just edit ~.pbuilderrc ??
<TheMuso> jussi01: No. Thats only for initial pbuilder creation.
<TheMuso> Kmos: Sorry, I don't quite have my chroots straightened yet.
<TheMuso> Even after a fresh build of a gutsy chroot with debootstrap etc, dch from devscripts still doesn't work.
<Fujitsu> --override-config is your friend.
<pochu> hey TheMuso 
<TheMuso> Hey pochu.
<Kmos> TheMuso: it has made for feisty..
<Kmos> i'm in feisty =)
<Kmos> evand: pbuilder-satisfydepends failed.
<Kmos> it don't install packages auto ?
<Fujitsu> Your dependencies mustn't exist.
<Kmos> and how to install them on pbuilder ?
<Fujitsu> pbuilder does that, that's sort of the point.
<Kmos> i've already edited sources.list to include, universe, multiverse, etc.
<Kmos>  -> Considering build-dep debhelper (>= 5.0.24)
<Kmos> welp: Unable to locate package debhelper
<Kmos> strange
<welp> Kmos: and?
<Kmos> welp: lol.. it changed to your nick
<Kmos> the paste
<welp> o.O
<welp> weirdness
<Fujitsu> Hahah, it was W<tab>Unable...
<pochu> lol :)
<welp> poor welp :(
<xipietotec_> just so someone is aware...I *think* the package included in the universe repository for SPE is broken
* pochu waits for a sponsor for Wesnoth :)
<pochu> TheMuso: ^ :)
<TheMuso> pochu: Don't know if you didn't see my earlier comment. Still straigning out my gutsy chroots.
<geser> TheMuso: what problems do you have with dch?
<TheMuso> geser: Hold on a sec...
<TheMuso> geser:  I get this when attempting to run dch -i for example...
<TheMuso> Can't locate URI/Escape.pm in @INC (@INC contains: /etc/perl /usr/local/lib/perl/5.8.8 /usr/local/share/perl/5.8.8 /usr/lib/perl5 /usr/share/perl5 /usr/lib/perl/5.8 /usr/share/perl/5.8 /usr/local/lib/site_perl .) at /usr/bin/dch line 41.
<TheMuso> BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /usr/bin/dch line 41.
<geser> interesting
<geser> which version of devscripts is this?
<TheMuso> Version: 2.10.2ubuntu1
<geser> [ Julian Gilbey ] 
<geser>   * debchange: load URI::Escape module carefully to give a meaningful
<geser>     warning message if the liburi-perl package is not installed
<geser> from devscripts 2.10.3
<TheMuso> hmmm ok
<TheMuso> Hasn't been synced then it seems.
<TheMuso> or something...
<geser> I've a merged devscripts 2.10.4ubuntu1 ready but need now a sponsor for it
<TheMuso> Ah ok.
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<eolo999> ScottK, hi, do you have some time to guide me?
<geser> TheMuso: but you should get dch working if you install liburi-perl
<TheMuso> geser: Thanks
<kobe> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAOmw1ln0cU
<crimsun> TheMuso: what's your gutsy chroot blocked on?
<TheMuso> crimsun: Seems I will be able to proceed after geser's suggestion.
<crimsun> ok.
<crimsun> geser: awaiting application of http://librarian.launchpad.net/7442556/debdiff ?
<crimsun> geser: uploaded.
<StevenK> Has linux-libc-dev been fixed?
<crimsun> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/gutsy-changes/2007-April/000226.html and https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/gutsy-changes/2007-April/000227.html
<StevenK> Yeah, except that 1.5 failed to build on everything bar ia64.
<jussi01> hello motu's!! is there a way to find out all the build deps for a source package?
<geser> jussi01: for a new package or for an existing one?
<jussi01> a new package
<geser> try and error
<geser> you might want to read README/INSTALL to find out what's necessary to build it
<jussi01> geser: sad... I was hoping for a simple way... :( anyways... :D
<pochu> TheMuso: heh, no hurry, I have 6 months :-)
<DktrKranz> any u-u-s to review a couple of merges?
<Loic> Is there a tag in launchpad for sync requests with Debian?
<Hobbsee> Loic: dont think so.  there's a script, though
<Hobbsee> for MOTU's
<Hobbsee> (as in, non motu
<Hobbsee> s will have to subscribe u-u-s)
<Loic> How does one request a sync with Debian in gutsy?
<Hobbsee> manually, or with the requestsync script, which is in the w.u.c/DeveloperResources, last i knew
<Loic>  w.u.c/DeveloperResources I'm lost here :)
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: afaik requestsync is only useful for MOTUs/Core Devs
<TheMuso> as it automatically subscribes ubuntu archive admins.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: true, and you cant unsubscribe them
<Hobbsee> Loic: w.u.c == wiki.ubuntu.com
<TheMuso> Perhaps we could get a command-line argument introduced to make the script behave like someone wanting a core dev/motu to ack the sync.
<TheMuso> One for motu, one for core dev, which subscribes uus, or ums as appropriate.
<Loic> <Hobbsee> When you say "manually", what should I do - I don't think it's opening a bug "need-packaging" since it's just a sync request
<Hobbsee> Loic: see https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/110979
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 110979 in mrd6 "Please sync mrd6 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
<Hobbsee> it's a bug like that
<Hobbsee> although that's done with teh script
<Loic> Oh, thanks
<Loic> However, since the bug has no tags, how can motu know about it?
<Hobbsee> you subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<Hobbsee> and they approve it, and subscribe the archive
<Loic> ok :)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Hobbsee> hi bddebian 
<Nafallo> morning bddebian 
<geser> Hi bddebian
<geser> crimsun: thanks for sponsoring devscripts but it failed to build because test/debchange.pl is missing the execute bit
<bddebian> Hi Hobbsee, Nafallo, geser
<Hobbsee> :)
<geser> crimsun: the tar.gz had the permisssions right but debdiff doesn't save the permissions
<azeem> geser: test/debchange.pl is shipped in the .diff.gz?
<geser> yes
<geser> devscripts is a native package
<geser> no, there isn't a diff.gz
<azeem> I see
<geser> test/debchange.pl is in the debdiff
<geser> is it worth to chmod +x it in debian/rules? as this only happens after applying a debdiff
<marseillai> hi
<marseillai> i've make two kde package for gutsy! does someone could take a look at them : ftpmonitor a kicker applet to monitor ftp connection with any ftp daemon http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4952 and mplayerthumbs a thumbnailer for konqueror faster than arts1-xine http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4949 
<ryanakca> how do I make a gutsy pbuilder? I get these errors: http://pastebin.ca/464434
<pochu> ryanakca: you aren't in gutsy, are you?
<azeem> ryanakca: install the debootstrap from gutsy, maybe
<pochu> yep
<ryanakca> pochu: nope
<ryanakca> azeem: so, get the package and dpkg -i it?
<azeem> yeah
<pochu> pochu: as azeem says, install the debootstrap from gutsy, and create it
<pochu> sure
<nixternal> is debootstrap for gutsy sittin' somewhere?
<nixternal> I haven't seen it yet
<pochu> in the archive, I guess
<persia> nixternal: debootstrap 0.3.3.3ubuntu2 should be in the pool directories on all the mirrors by now.
<pochu> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/d/debootstrap/debootstrap_0.3.3.3ubuntu2_all.deb
<pochu> hey persia
<nixternal> ya, just seen it
<nixternal> a few days ago it wasn't, sweet!!
<persia> hey pochu
<persia> nixternal: Wednesday
<nixternal> and now we are building base
<pochu> persia: actually we have wx2.4, 2.6 and 2.8 in the archive, do you think it's worth to move all the packages depending in 2.4 to 2.6 or 2.8, so we can remove 2.4 from the archive? AFAIK, 2.4 isn't developed anymore upstream, and it's easier to maintain 2.6 and 2.8 than 2.4, .6 and .8 :)
<persia> pochu: I don't know much about wx2.4.  The API changed a lot between wx2.6 and wx2.8, and I really don't think Ubuntu wants to carry lots of source pacakge changes until Debian updated to wx2.8 (still not in sid).
<Adri2000> any idea on how could I remove two blank lines in a file with sed?
<persia> Adri2000: awk is probably better for this ( I think ' /^$/ { print $1..$NR }', but man awk to check).
<nixternal> sed '/^$/d' file
<nixternal> ?
<persia> nixternal: That's much better.
<nixternal> that only deletes one line
<Adri2000> sorry, I was probably not so clear, actually I want to remove *one* blank line where there is two consecutive blank lines
<Adri2000> there are*
<Adri2000> foo\n\n\nbar becomes foo\n\nbar
<persia> Adri2000: Sed is line based, so it's tricky.  I seem to remember something about sed allowing variables (although awk is better for that too), but I don't see it in the man page.  Have you looked at the sed reference?  You could match each line to /^$/, and if it matched, compared to a saved variable of the last line, and if it matched that as well, delete.
<ivoks> easy
<ivoks> vim -c "%g/^$\n/^$/delete1"
<ivoks> probably works in sed too, i use vim -c instead :)
<Adri2000> I've just found that: sed '$!N; /^\(.*\)\n\1$/!P; D'
<Adri2000> and that seems to work
<Adri2000> I love this kind of beautiful lines :p
<TrioTorus> What is the policy for commercial software? Can I include a package that downloads a commercial piece of software in the repos?
<TrioTorus> Or should I rather convine the vendor to provide a .deb package file?
<TrioTorus> I'm thinking of houdini, which has a full working version of it's software available: http://www.sidefx.com
<bddebian> I thought wx2.4 got dropped in Feisty?
<persia> bddebian: It's still in the gutsy repositories.  About 14 packages depend on it.
<persia> Should these be considered bugs?  wx2.4 seems farly easy to eliminate (in terms of volume of effort, as compared to wx2.6).
<bddebian> I looked at several of the 2.4 packages, some of them are not so easy :-(
<persia> bddebian: Give me a hard one.  I'm currently waiting for a new linux-libc-dev, and could use a new project.
<TrioTorus> To answer my own question: for commercial software, there is the multiverse repos
<bddebian> persia: I'll have to dig through the ML, I tried a few and made some notes
<persia> bddebian: Thanks.  I'm looking at sooperlooper first, but would appreciate any prior notes.
<bddebian> Dang, maybe I'm on crack
<bddebian> I swore I looked at some of those and I'll be damned if I can find anything in my e-mail about it
<bddebian> Maybe I'm thinking of the PHP4 packages..
* bddebian wonders about senility
<persia> bddebian: That's actually good news.  Perhaps it won't be so bad (although there are definitely API changes).
<bddebian> Though I made a package for 2.8 and I swore I looked at the 2.4 packages.. Grr
<ryanakca> is this safe to ignore?
<ryanakca> W: jailkit source: source-nmu-has-incorrect-version-number 2.3-0ubuntu1
<Nafallo> yes
<ryanakca> kk
<ryanakca> thanks
<bddebian> Damn, why can I never remember how to use grep-dctrl :-(
<bddebian> persia: What are you looking at for depends? libwxbase2.4?
<The_Belgain> hi there - i'm hitting a vlc crash and need some help to get a stacktrace of it so i can file a proper bug...
<The_Belgain> i'm not having any luck with apport though (no core file or stack trace is being produced..)
<The_Belgain> i've been told this is where i should ask?
<pochu> bddebian: look at libwxbase2.4, libwxgtk2.4, and python-wxgtk2.4
<persia> bddebian: I started with `apt-cache rdepends libwxbase2.4-1`, but that was very sparse, so I've been using `apt-cache rdepends libwxgtk2.4-1` to start from.
<bddebian> Well thuban is the only reverse build dep I see for libwxbase2.4-dev :-)
<bddebian> And thuban seems vaguely familiar
<pochu> bddebian: do not look at the -dev, but -1 ;)
<bddebian> BUILD-DEPENDS
<pochu> The_Belgain: look at this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProgramCrash
<The_Belgain> yes - i'm trying to follow those - i've installed the relevant symbol file packages and gdb
<The_Belgain> does that only work when attaching gdb to a running program? can't i run it over an existing core dump?
<pochu> you should start vlc under gdb
<The_Belgain> it doesn't seem to be liking that... my normal vlc invocation would be "vlc -I Telnet"... what should i call? "gdb vlc -I Telnet" doesn't seem to work...
<pochu> no, use "gdb vlc"
<pochu> and after it, do "run -I Telnet"
<persia> bddebian: How are you looking?  What do you see for libwxgtk2.4-dev?  Thuban was yours a year ago, but it doesn't appear to have changed much.
<pochu> ("run <arguments, if any>")
<bddebian> persia / pochu: Like so:  http://pastebin.us/29448  :-)
<The_Belgain> ok, thanks
<persia> bddebian: That's about the same list.  Thanks.
<persia> I claim freqtweak.
<The_Belgain> right - it's crashed with a SEGV as expected - running "bt" doesn't seem to get me a sensible backtrace...
<pochu> maybe you're missing some dbgsym packages
<The_Belgain> "info threads" doesn't seem to be showing me which thread segv'ed
<The_Belgain> i've installed all the vlc-dbgsym packages - how can i tell what package the symbols I'm missing are in?
<The_Belgain> is there anything other than just apt-get'ing the symbols packages that I need to do in order for them to be picked up?
<tsmithe> ... i guess bug 106588 needs an sru...
<tsmithe> how does this work?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 106588 in evolution "Evolution missing dependency causes hang on startup (Kubuntu Feisty)" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/106588
<The_Belgain> well, i'll see if valgrind has a better time with this than gdb then (unless anyone has a better suggestion?)
<pochu> !sru | tsmithe 
<ubotu> tsmithe: Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates for main and restricted, while https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/SRU is for universe and multiverse.
<tsmithe> ok danke :)
<pochu> np!
<tsmithe> "use Backport fix to releases"?
<pochu> yes
<tsmithe> i don't know what that means
<tsmithe> how do i uses this "backport fix to releases"?
<pochu> that means to put a fix which isn't in a stable release in it
<tsmithe> i've attached a debdiff with which to update the package.
<pochu> e.g. if evolution crashes when starting up and is fixed in gutsy, to put (backport) that fix to edgy
<tsmithe> i'm not sure if it's fixed in gutsy
<tsmithe> have there been any evo updates?
* tsmithe checks
<pochu> tsmithe: evolution is in main, so this isn't the best place :)
<tsmithe> yes.
<pochu> tsmithe: I think there has been
<pochu> tsmithe: I suggest you to ask in #ubuntu-desktop, but today might be a bad day ;)
<tsmithe> it is sunday, true
<tsmithe> 106588 hasn't been fixed by any gutsy uploads
<tsmithe> my patch is for feisty
<tsmithe> (as that was the development release at the time)
* tsmithe goes to -desktop
<pochu> hmm, you might want to update the patch :)
<tsmithe> yea
<tsmithe> i don't have a gutsy machine atm to build it on, however :)
<tsmithe> although i could easily have one sometime this week
<geser> man pbuilder
<tsmithe> geser, can i build the patch in a pbuilder?
<geser> sure, if you have a pbuilder for gutsy
<The_Belgain> hmm... i'm still not having any luck getting a stack to file a useful bugreport for vlc (under valgrind it seems to run too slowly to actually hit the crash)
<The_Belgain> anyone have any words of advice?
<persia> geser: Any interest in testing my mass-bug patch?  There is a requirement that local mail be set correctly (and mine is broken) to access production launchpad.
<tsmithe> geser, oh that's very cool. didn't know that. (i guess it's just a debootstrap with automagical dependency coolness)
<geser> tsmithe: pbuilder login into it and do what you want to do (but don't forget to rescue all files you need afterwards)
<tsmithe> snazzy
<tsmithe> thanks :)
<geser> pbuilder is a script around chroot which will get you a clean chroot and clean up afterwards
<geser> it's mostly used to test builds but you can do more with it
<tsmithe> yes
<Q-FUNK>  would anyone have any idea where I could find some LGPL monochrome icons for the old USB logo, for microphone and for headphones?
<fx5> hi
<fx5> I accidentally uploaded a bad package (binary and unready) to revu and it seems to stuck there on the ftp-server. How can i get it out of the way to upload a better one?
<eolo999> hi, i'm a motu hopeful, i solved a bug for pysol assigned to me as a first try. Now i should create the patched package, but all previous patches are stored in a sole diff.gz file (the way the packaging guide says: oh,oh, no good). what should i do? which procedures i have to follow? 
<gpocentek> eolo999: the patches have to be in the .diff.gz
<gpocentek> gpocentek: oh, I see
<eolo999> gpocentek, i read they should be multiple files in debian/patches folder ...
<gpocentek> eolo999: yep, I should have look at the package before talking ;)
<gpocentek> the clean solution would be to create real patches and put them in debian/patches I guess
<eolo999> gpocentek, the guide goes not deep in doing that :(
<gpocentek> eolo999: have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/PatchingSources
<eolo999> ok, thanks gpocentek 
<eolo999> i'll try
<gpocentek> feel free to ask questions here if you need help
<eolo999> gpocentek, which of the methods should i follow from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/PatchingSources?
<gpocentek> eolo999: I'd use the dpatch method
<eolo999> gpocentek, ok
<fx5> anyone here who has the power to delete files from revu-ftp-server? Or anyone knows, who i can ask for this?
<ScottK> eolo999: I'm here.
<eolo999> ScottK, great!
<ScottK> eolo999: Would you please pastebin your patch.
<eolo999> ok
<ScottK> eolo999: Do you have a GPG key?
<eolo999> !pastebin
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<Loic> Hi, my brain got struck by a power failure and I forgot which group I should subscribe to a bug report in Launchpad to request a sync with Debian for Gutsy
<eolo999> ScottK, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/18260/
<eolo999> yes i have gpg
<Loic> Anyone knows?
<tsmithe> Loic, surely it would happen automatically
<tsmithe> (at this stage)
<Loic> No, it didn't
<ScottK> Good.
<tsmithe> how odd...
* ScottK is looking
<Loic> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/armagetron/+bug/37316
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 37316 in armagetron "[Dapper]  armagetron in Dapper is version 0.2.7.0, but version 0.2.8.1 is out and has many improvements" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  
<Loic> and there's also qGo (another package)
<ScottK> eolo999: Why is it a dirty hack?
<Loic> stuck in 1.5.2 when debian has been at 1.5.3 since January
<eolo999> ScottK, i meant that i'have not changed the way tk checkbox stores value but converted in main loop
<ScottK> OK.
<eolo999> i can remove that lines ;)
<ScottK> Just asking.
<eolo999> ScottK, have you seen the launchpad comments?
<ScottK> No, if that's your opinion, fine, but I'd suggest adding comments about why you did what you did and what effect it has.  Once we get this done, you are going to submit this to Debian and the patch needs to be sensible to them.
<ScottK> eolo999: Not recently.  bug #39975
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 39975 in pysol "Automatic play -> Auto drop setting forgotten" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/39975
<eolo999> ScottK, yes #39975
<ScottK> eolo999: I think you should add last bug comment to the code comments so it's clear.
<eolo999> ScottK, ok i'm doing it
<eolo999> ScottK, writing even debian bug #?
<ScottK> Yes.  Write the Debian bug number too.
<ScottK> I'm just about to need help eolo999 add dpatch to debian/rules for pysol.  I'd really appreciate it if anyone watching over my shoulder here would jump in and tell us how, because I don't know exactly how to do it...
<ScottK> bddebian: Would you have a moment to get me a hand on this...
<ScottK> eolo999: Do you have a pbuilder set up?
<eolo999> yes
<ScottK> Good.
<ScottK> eolo999: I'm currently reading man dpatch to see how we add dpatch to the pysol debian/rules.  You might want to do the same.
<eolo999> ScottK, pasted corrections in http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/18263/
<ScottK> eolo999: Why is line 24 in your patch?
<eolo999> it was a print i added during tests
<eolo999> should i remove it?
<ScottK> That and line 28 should come out for the production patch.
<eolo999> ScottK, I'm reading ubuntu packaging guide pag. 44
<ScottK> May I have a link please?
<ScottK> Or are you reading a local copy?
<eolo999> https://help.ubuntu.com/
<eolo999> packaging guide
<ScottK> What section of the guide?
<ScottK> eolo999: I found it.
<boss-bcp> Could someone take a look at libpam-cups ( http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4936 ) for me? It's currently been advocated by one MOTU.
<ScottK> eolo999: That works if dpatch is already set up in debian/rules and we don't have that for pysol.  This is turning out to be an interesting first project.  
<ScottK> eolo999: If pysol used cbds it would be a one liner change in rules, but unfortunately, it doesn't...
<ScottK> eolo999: I'm working on the rules changes for you.
<eolo999> thanks, sorry my son was crying, i was absent...
<eolo999> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/18264/
<eolo999> ScottK, so there was a reason why I was so confused
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> eolo999: I understand.  I have a 4 year-old who I just had to go tell AGAIN that nap time isn't over.
<eolo999> ScottK, my son is 11 months...
* ScottK remebers that age.  I have 3 daugters.
<eolo999> in ubunbtu packagin guide pg 44 what i don't understand is: Create a temporary work space and two copies of the current source directory:
<eolo999> and then follow an example
<ScottK> eolo999: That they are trying to do is make sure you don't contaminate a clean source for when you build the package.
<eolo999> should i copy tar.gz files or whole dirs. in the second case which i think is right the commands provided are not working:
<ScottK> eolo999: I usually just make two different directories and apt-get the source twice.
<eolo999> cp -a <package>-<version> <package>-<version>.orig
<eolo999> good suggestion
* ScottK gets confused about such things.  This is why I just apt-get source into two different directories.
<ScottK> There is more than one way to do it.  They key is to ensure you have no unintentded modifications to your source tree when you build the package.
<Nafallo> I usually name it "deb" :-)
<Nafallo> and use mv to move it there :-)
* ScottK would still like it if someone who knows what they are doing would jump in and help out with adding dpatch to a traditional dh based package.
<sladen> you want a command in the rules file that does the patching
<ScottK> sladen: Yes, but getting from that concept to here's the code to add it a bit of a leap.
<sladen> ScottK: the best place to look is a package that has had dpatch added
<sladen> ScottK: all the changes will then be in the diff between the Debian and Ubuntu versions
<sladen> ScottK: patches.ubuntu.com
<eolo999> ScottK, i think i created a valid dpatch in debian/patches
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> That's good.  We still need to figure adding dpatch to debian/rules
<eolo999> ScottK, now i have to edit changelog, control and rules...
<eolo999> ScottK, why the guide doesn't talk about setting rules?
<ScottK> eolo999: Because adding a patching system to a package is fairly complex.  Dunno exactly.
<ScottK> In this case it's necessary.
<ScottK> You work an control and changelog.  Be sure to add dpatch to the build-depends.
<Lamego> using dpatch is quite simple
<eolo999> and dpatch added to the 'debian/control file (if needed): what does it mean
<Lamego> eolo999, it means you need to reed a started guide :)
<Lamego> try help.ubuntu.com, the packagers guide
<eolo999> just a line as: Build-Depends: dpatch, etc.
<ScottK> Lamego: Using dpatch is quite simple.  Agreed.
<ScottK> eolo999: Yes
<ScottK> Lamego: The trick here is adding dpatch to rules.
<ScottK> Lamego: If you know how to do that, your assistance is more than welcome.
<Lamego> ScottK, i was thinking about using CDBS
<Lamego> with cdbs you just need to add the rule
<ScottK> With cdbs it is agreed quite easy.
<ScottK> Unfortunately, pysol doesn't use cdbs.
<eolo999> ScottK, ok: changelog and control
<ScottK> OK.  I'm still futsing with rules here.
<Lamego> i can help, if he has some basic packaging understand, otherwise my recommendation is to read the manual first
<Lamego> then present any doubts
<Lamego> it doesn't make much sense to teach to use dpatch, without a sufficient understating of build depends
<eolo999> ScottK, I've to go out, do u want me to send you control, changelog, 00list and patch file before?
<ScottK> Yes please.
<siretart> somebody having an amd64, feisty and willing to fight with shitty^wfine software half the media players depend on? its about ffmpeg
<ScottK> Just e-mail them.
<jdong> haha, poor siretart
<eolo999> ScottK, i'll be back in 2/3 hours
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> eolo999: I'll be gone by then, but will e-mail you back.
<eolo999> ScottK, sent them... and really thanks for your efforts with a newbie
<Lamego> siretart, if its a quick thing i can help
<jdong> Lamego: I think he's been working on it for the past few days :D
<jdong> hmm, what Intels have EM64T?
* jdong searches
<Lamego> core2
<siretart> Lamego: well, depends on how firm you are with PIC problems on amd64
<siretart> Lamego: please try to build ffmpeg from debian/experimental in a feisty chroot
<Lamego> debian package link please
<jdong> find it from experimental :D
<siretart> (actually, I'd need it for gutsy, but gutsy is horribly broken atm. the linking problem however is the same before the breakage)
<siretart> Lamego: dget http://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/f/ffmpeg/ffmpeg_0.cvs20070307-4.dsc
<jussi01> hello Amaranth
<Amaranth> hey
<Amaranth> 91F + game that almost overheats your laptop == overheated laptop
<jdong> haha
<jdong> Amaranth: I was just enjoying a bit of ut2004 myself
<jdong> at least fglrx can handle that 1280x800
<jdong> *grumble*
<Amaranth> oh, i was playing tremulous
<Amaranth> which is sad because it's a q3-based game
<Amaranth> but they suck at making games so it's terribly inefficient
<jussi01> trem rocks!!!
<tsmithe> omgz yeah!!
<siretart> Lamego: could you reproduce the problem?
<Lamego> siretart, still building
<Lamego> anyone with a long experience building QT apps ?
<Lamego> /usr/bin/ld: /home/lamego/getdeb/build/ffmpeg-0.cvs20070307/libavcodec/libavcodec.a(imgconvert.o): relocation R_X86_64_32S against `a local symbol' can not be used when making a shared object; recompile with -fPIC
<siretart> Lamego: exactly this error needs to be fixed somehow
<siretart> I'm currently testbuilding it in a sid chroot
<jdong> siretart: that looks VERY FAMILIAR....
* jdong pulls up his wiki article
<jdong> siretart: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/iPodVideoEncoding
<jdong> wait
<jdong> but that's for x264
<jdong> so it's not the same thing.....
<jdong> though for x264 I had to explicitly override to the PIC'ed lib.... could the default lavc not be PIC?
<Lamego> siretart, there are plenty of results on google for this type of problem :P
<Lamego> siretart, according to someone who had the same problem building libvorbis on 2004, using -fPIC as described on the error should fix it :P
<Lamego> http://lists.helixcommunity.org/pipermail/porting-amd64/2004-September/000002.html
<siretart> Lamego: it's not that easy in this case. 
<Lamego> siretart, it does look the same,  libavcodec.a misses the _GLOBAL_OFFSET_TABLE_ symbol as described on the doc
<Lamego> m /home/lamego/getdeb/build/ffmpeg-0.cvs20070307/libavcodec/libavcodec.a | grep _GLOBA_ | wc -l
<Lamego> 0
<Lamego> ops
<Lamego> typo
<Lamego> still, valid, symbol not found
<siretart> Lamego: funnily, the problem doesn't happen in a sid chroot
<Lamego> are you sure it is not using another libavcodec :P ?
<siretart> I think I found something interesting while diffing the buildlogs
<siretart> HA! got it!
<jdong> yay!
<siretart> it was indeed a broken x264 package
<sacater> hi all
<jdong> siretart: cool
<jdong> I swear it's not my fault :D
<jdong> though I think I'm last-touched-by in Ubuntu :D
<siretart> jdong: I don't think so either. ffmpeg is just a PITA to maintain
<siretart> jdong: I recently offered sam to co-maintain it in debian, so trust me, I know for sure :/
<jdong> siretart: well, thanks for taking up that responsibility. everyone playing back media files in Ubuntu owes you a beer :)
<Lamego> siretart, have you tried to build libavcodec only ?
<siretart> Lamego: no, the complete package is okay now
<Lamego> ok
<Lamego> there is something terrible broken with gcc
<Lamego> could someone try to build mandvd ? On my system its just "hang" when compiling one of the files, g++ just keep eating mem
<zul_> mandvd?
<ScottK> Lamego: Are you building for Gutsy?
<ScottK> Lamego: If so, it's known to be broken.
<Lamego> well, not really, i am building on feisty
<ScottK> OK.  Then I dunno.
<Lamego> it simply does not compile this .cpp
<Lamego> it must be on some loop, i just see the mem usage incresing
* jussi01 cries
<Lamego> hum, without some optimization options it did compile
<Lamego> it doesn't build with the default qmake.mk flags
<jussi01> can someone please, pretty please show me a manual/way to make for man pages?
<fdoving> jussi01: something like: http://www.linux.com/article.pl?sid=04/02/05/1651203 maybe? 
<jussi01> fdoving: thnak you!! (bookmarked it!)
<PhinnFort> jdong: thanks;)
<jdong> PhinnFort: thanks for what?
<PhinnFort> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ktorrent/+bug/109184
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 109184 in ktorrent "KTorrent crashed without warning (fixed upstream)" [Undecided,Confirmed]  
<jdong> ah, ok
<jdong> not a problem
<jdong> hopefully the SRU for it goes through soon
<PhinnFort> "fix commited"?
<PhinnFort> *tt
<gnomefreak> is there a place that lists the packages in proposed repo?
<gnomefreak> seems something in proposed stopped all screensavers from working here
<ScottK> gnomefreak: There is a way to coax it out of LP, but I don't recall the exact incantation.
<gnomefreak> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/ :)
<gnomefreak> and nothing that relates to screensavers from what i can tell :(
<ScottK> I'm a bit uncertain on the notification process for SRU proposals under the new policy.  I've prepared an SRU fix for pythoncad for Bug #108612.  Do I need to make a separate new bug for the SRU proposal?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 108612 in pythoncad "[apport]  pythoncad crashed with ExpatError in parse()" [Medium,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/108612
<Fujitsu> ScottK: you need use the `Nominate for release' button, nominate it for Feisty, get a core-dev to accept the nomination, and then do the SRU process.
<tsmithe> that's so much clearer than the wiki page
* tsmithe remembers that for tomorrow
<tsmithe> gotta file an sru myself :)
<Fujitsu> I'll try to clarify the wiki page when I get home from school.
<tsmithe> Fujitsu: that'd be great :)
<Kmos> how to define gutsy on debian/changelog?
<Kmos> when i'm using feisty
<Kmos> define or change.. i've feisty, i can do it with vim manually ?
<Kmos> ddclient (3.7.1-0ubuntu1) feisty; urgency=low
<Kmos> i've this now
<DktrKranz> dch -i -D gutsy
<Kmos> i don't want to increment version
<DktrKranz> I fear you have to adjust it manually
<Kmos> yeah
<Kmos> i've done it now
<Kmos> let's see :)
<Kmos> DktrKranz: thx anyway
<Kmos> it works
<Kmos> on .changes file
<Kmos> Architecture: source
<Kmos> Version: 3.7.1-0ubuntu1
<Kmos> Distribution: gutsy
<Kmos> :)
<Kmos> how about to add gutsy to revu? so lintian doesn't give us error
<DktrKranz> Kmos, I think you can simply ignore it
<Kmos> :))
<kalon33> hello all, I've a little problem, I've uploaded on the revu a bad version of a package, how can i replace it ?
<bddebian> kalon33: Upload over it or ask an admin to remove the upload
<DktrKranz> kalon33, just upload the correct one
<kalon33> (it's my first time, and I try the "dput -f" but it doesn't work...
<DktrKranz> what does it tell you?
<jussi01> ok, i have a question, Ive built my deb, but when i go to install it it says it depends on libgdk_pixbuf2. how do i make it know that it needs to go get this from the repos?
<jussi01> kalon33: dput -f revu
<ajmitch> jussi01: apt-get
<ajmitch> dpkg won
<ajmitch> dpkg won't fetch extra packages :)
<bddebian> heh
<DktrKranz> jussi01, gdebi yourpackage.deb
<jussi01> ajmitch: do i need to add something in the control file?
<kalon33> jussi01 : Error '553 Could not create file.' during ftp transfer of gossip-telepathy_0.25~svn20070427-0ubuntu1.dsc
<bddebian> jussi01: No, it you installed with dpkg -i, just do an apt-get -f install or as DktrKranz said, use gdebi
<bddebian> s/it/if/
<Nafallo> gdebi-gtk ftw! :-)
<jussi01> ok, great, just aking sure I didnt need to make any changes to the source before i uploaded it to revu again...
<kalon33> bddebian, can you delete my sauerbraten and gossip-telepathy in order for me to upload the correct version ?
<jussi01> s/aking/making
<bddebian> kalon33: I can't no, I'm not an admin on revu, sorry
<kalon33> and Could you had my key to the revu ones ?
<kalon33> oh, anyone can do that here ?
<ajmitch> kalon33: you should really ask to get the keyring synced before uploading packages
* ajmitch is resyncing it now
<kalon33> ajmitch I asked it this afternoon... (about 13 UTC i think)
<kalon33> by mail
<kalon33> thanks :)
<Kmos> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4953
<Kmos> people check it out
<Kmos> bddebian: had advotated it as yes
<Kmos> :)
<kalon33> ajmitch, does it takes a long time before I can upload my packages ?
#ubuntu-motu 2008-04-21
<Jazzva> Could someone take a look at the patch in bug 219303? Thanks :)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 219303 in gnome-voice-control "Problem with OAFIID:GNOME_VoiceControlApplet while adding VoiceControl to GNOME Panel" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/219303
<Jazzva> ScottK, thanks for the ack. There was one other problem (which I missed), but I fixed it now, and uploaded the new debdiff.
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> Susbcribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors if you haven't.
<ScottK> Jazzva: ^^
<Jazzva> I will...
<emgent> Fujitsu: ping
<emgent> heya ScottK
<emgent> I'm thinking to import wordpress 2.5 in hardy. possible exception?
<TheMuso> emgent: Cutting it a bit close don't you think?
<emgent> TheMuso: yes i know :|
<emgent> TheMuso: lenny use wordpress (2.5.0-1)
<emgent> now in ubuntu  wordpress | 2.3.3-1ubuntu1 | hardy/universe | source, all
<TheMuso> Well considering hwo many people use wordpress, why wasn't it updated earlier?
<Amaranth> i thought wordpress got removed from debian for being a security nightmare :P
<RAOF> Gah!  Gmail's spam filter would be more useful if it didn't flag DDs offering to help with the Gnome-Do Debian package as spam.
<emgent> Amaranth: nah..
<emgent> TheMuso: i dont know. in the last time i follow wordpress but i'm not motu yet.
<emgent> anyway i will talk for other people at UDS for found a solution.
<emgent> no i go to sleep, see you later
<emgent> s/no/now/
<nxvl> i find easier to install wordpress from upstream than from apt
<nxvl> so i don't think is needed
<nxvl> is not so hard to install it to be a package
<emgent> nxvl: false.
<emgent> debian/ubuntu wordpress support multiuser wordpress
<emgent> it`s a very good reason for me.
<emgent> anyway now i should sleep, we can talk at UDS
<emgent> night all.
<nxvl> multiuser as in one instalation for several domains?
<emgent> yes. see docs.
<emgent> night
<crimsun> Fujitsu: essentially the env vars are unnecessary
<crimsun> Fujitsu: BTW, there're so many whitespace-only (i.e., spurious) changes; we could do without those
<nxvl> does anyone know what happened with dad?
<nxvl> DaD*
<jdong> went off with MoM?
<icanhas> jdong: i had to refrain from that so badly.
<jdong> lol
<nxvl> heh
<nxvl> i'm blogging this
<icanhas> nxvl: i'm bashing this
<ScottK2> nxvl: The intent was to merge the code with MoM now that MoM has been open sourced.
<ScottK2> nxvl: The MoM source is in it's own project on Launchpad now.
<nxvl> ScottK2: oh! that's why MoM has the cool features DaD have
<nxvl> :P
<nxvl> had*
<ScottK2> Does it?
 * ScottK2 looks
<nxvl> yup
<nxvl> now it has "Last Uploader" field
<nxvl> which hadn't
<StevenK> ScottK2: launchpad/merge-o-matic ?
<StevenK> Er, launchpad.net
<ScottK2> Ah.
 * ScottK2 was still looking for comments.
<ScottK2> Sounds right.
<nxvl> ScottK2: yes, that's isn't merged
<nxvl> :(
 * nxvl codes
<ScottK2> StevenK: Would you be available to help me figure out why my new clamav postinst is failing?
<TheMuso> The last uploader field has been there for quite a while now.
<StevenK> ScottK2: Sure. What's the issue?
<ScottK2> The error is /var/lib/dpkg/info/clamav-base.postinst: 454: Generated: not found
<ScottK2> Line 454 is esac
<StevenK> Then it's somewhere in that block.
<StevenK> ScottK2: Add set -x to the postinst and re-run?
<StevenK> ScottK2: Pastebin what it spits out
<ScottK2> OK
<nxvl> TheMuso: it can, but i has opened MoM after some months
<nxvl> :P
<nxvl> ScottK2: line number are referencial, the correct line isn't always shown
<StevenK> I usually take it to be a block, and set -x it
<ScottK2> OK.
<nxvl> StevenK: yep, that's better
<nxvl> StevenK: i use -x to
<nxvl> :D
<nxvl> too*
<ScottK2> StevenK: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/63889/
<nxvl> ScottK2: it seems to be an issue with the comment
<nxvl> :S
<ScottK2> Which is bizarre.  Comment is in the previous version unmodified.
<nxvl> ScottK2: it's on the archives or it's a change you are testing?
<StevenK> Personally, I'd use a heredoc there
<nxvl> woohooo Ice Age is on TV \o/
<ScottK2> nxvl: The previous version is in the archives.
 * nxvl downloads
<ScottK2> StevenK: Currently we use the Debian clamav package unmodified, so I'm trying for minimal change as I'd like to both keep it that way and not have sgran say, "Here you maintain it then."
<nxvl> ScottK2: have you change posinst?
<ScottK2> Yes.
<nxvl> can you upload it please
<ScottK2> I'll pastebin the diff.
<nxvl> :D
<ScottK2> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/63890/
 * ScottK2 curses upstreams who randomly rearrange config options for no clear reason.
<ScottK2> StevenK or nxvl: any suggestions.
<StevenK> ScottK2: Can you pastebin the postinst?
<ScottK2> Sure.
<ScottK2> StevenK: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/63891/
<StevenK> It looks syntactically correct to me.
<StevenK> ScottK2: What does sh -n <postinst> give you?
<ScottK2> I found a problem in the depenencies, that I need to check out, maybe that's what's giving me trouble.
 * ScottK2 tries
<ScottK2> StevenK: With or without the set -x?  Without set -x there is no output
<nxvl> i think i have it
<nxvl> on line 169 at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/63889/ there should have "" after and before the #
<ScottK2> Ah.  Looking
<nxvl> try changing the "s on lines 28{7,8} for 's
<ScottK2> nxvl: Change echo "#Automatically Generated by clamav-base postinst" > $DEBCONFFILE to echo ""#Automatically Generated by clamav-base postinst"" > $DEBCONFFILE
<ScottK2> Sorry, it's late and I'm tired.
<nxvl> that happends often
<ScottK2> Is that what you meant?
<nxvl> i have had really stupid missings when i work on something for to much time
<nxvl> ScottK2: yep
<nxvl> ScottK2: or use ' intead of "
<ScottK2> OK.
<jdong> err, line 225
<jdong>     scanarchive="$RET
<ScottK2> I'm rebuilding with the dependency corrected, I'll try that first and if that doesn't get it, I'll try that.
<jdong> that looks like a problem
<ScottK2> Ah.
<nxvl> oh!
<jdong> rest of the script looks good
<nxvl> that's why the "s aren't recognized correctly
<jdong> transposed "'
<jdong> those are nasty
<jdong> often times don't trip an error till it's way too late
<ScottK2> jdong: Wins the cookie.  Thanks a bunch.
<jdong> no prob :)
<ScottK2> Thanks StevenK and nxvl too.
 * nxvl HUGS ScottK2 
<jdong> vim was the magic silver bullet... I noticed at the end all the highlighting was screwed up so I backtracked to the first line that started happening
 * ScottK2 makes a note.
<jetsaredim> if i'm updating a package for a new upstream, I want to remove all of the old junk in the existing package except for the debian dir right?
<nxvl> mmm
<nxvl> not really
<nxvl> you want to keep the changes which upstream hasn't include
<nxvl> they can be on the debian dir if a patchsystem has been used or on the parent dir
<nxvl> so you need to check is a patch system is used or not
<jetsaredim> nxvl: this is for essenailly a complete re-write of the package
<jetsaredim> also - just checking - what is the policy on version numbering for alpha/beta and svn +/~
<nxvl> ?
<nxvl> version~svnversion
<jetsaredim> i thought it was like ver+b#~svn#
<RAOF> jetsaredim: Basically, the goal is to both (1) Give a useful, monotone increasing version number, and (2) ensure that the eventual release has a higher version number than any of the pre-releases.
<jetsaredim> sure
<ScottK2> jetsaredim: If it was + then it would have a higher version number than the final release.  This is painful.
<jetsaredim> so how does one express beta revision releases?
<RAOF> There are two obvious options here: oldversion+svn$REVISION => newversion on release, or newversion~svn$REVISION => newversion on release.
<ScottK2> final~beta
<RAOF> Or newversion~beta1 => newversion, etc.
<ScottK2> RAOF types faster than me.
<jetsaredim> so - if its beta and comes from svn?
<ScottK2> Your call.
<RAOF> Is it really beta and comes from SVN?  Beta implies some form of release :)
<jetsaredim> rh
<jetsaredim> 8eh
<jetsaredim> damn can't type
<jetsaredim> i'm updating a package with new upstream
<RAOF> Yes, fair enough.
<jetsaredim> current package version is 1.1.0~b11+svn317
<jetsaredim> new is 1.2 beta20 svn 561
<RAOF> So, the actual status is: there was a 1.2 beta 20 release, and we're packaging r561 which is later than that beta?
<dholbach> good morning
<RAOF> (Of course, it doesn't matter _too_ much, as long as it's monotone increasing and obvious to someone.  IE: you).
<jetsaredim> RAOF: I'm grabbing it from svn and the version number they are using is 1.2b20
<RAOF> dholbach: Hood morning.
<dholbach> hi RAOF
<jetsaredim> dholbach: almost time for bed here ;)
<RAOF> Ah.  The old "insane upstream" problem.
<jetsaredim> indeed
<dholbach> hehe
<ScottK2> jetsaredim: THen how about 1.2~b20
<ScottK2> Good morning dholbach.
<dholbach> hi ScottK2
<dholbach> how are you guys doing?
<ScottK2> Tired and heading to bed soon.
 * jetsaredim same
<dholbach> I'm at the second cup of coffee - so things should be good quite soon :)
<RAOF> I'd suggest 1.2~b20+svn561, which says to me "this is b20 + some more svn development of what will become 1.2"
<jetsaredim> ok
<jetsaredim> that follows the current numbering
<RAOF> Indeed.  It does have that advantage :)
<jetsaredim> i suppose i can live with that
<dholbach> nxvl: thanks for the fix for 5-a-day - uploaded to PPA
<jdong> I think the choice between oldversion+svnrev vs newversion~svnrev depends on the maturity of the product :)
<superm1> well more so on how often it is updated
<jdong> i.e. whether it's 10 revs from the last stable release or 10 revs TO the next stable release :)
<superm1> i dont like it when there are combinations of both
<superm1> that makes more confusing
<jdong> superm1: well they say different things
<dholbach> I always make use of the version in configure.ac
<superm1> well i mean something like  1.2~b20+svn561
<jdong> 1.2+svn1234 says it's essentially version 1.2 but with some svn chansets
<superm1> which makes sense (jdong^)
<jdong> 1.3~svn1234 means to me it's ALMOST 1.3
<nxvl> dholbach: :D
<dholbach> if they bumped it up to the next version already, but didn't release, I make it <next version>~svn<date>
<superm1> when i read that i think, well this is 1.2 snapshot 20 + some fixes
<superm1> but i dont know if that would be accurate
<jdong> superm1: taht's how I'd read the version number too
<jdong> I'd only use that versioning scheme if that's how it's supposed to read
<dholbach> superm1, jdong: isn't there any upstream file that states the current version?
<jdong> I don't know; I'm speaking hypothetically here :D
<jetsaredim> superm1: yea - that's what it is
<dholbach> (or the version that currently lives in svn?)
<nxvl> btw
<superm1> this package in question i dont know, i just jumped in when i saw ugly version numbers light up
<nxvl> when is going to start the debian import time?
<jdong> ack the FreeBSD idle loop is really ticking me off
<jdong> (no pun intended)
<jdong> the bloody thing fires off 15% CPU usage idle in timer ticks
<superm1> i try to only start tacking on versions for +svnXYZ or such when I am working closely with upstream personally
<jdong> how do people in the Real World (tm) stand virtualizing these things?
<JohnPhys> Is there any way a freeze exception could be granted to get the fix to Bug #195052 into hardy?  It seems as though it's already been fixed in the inkscape source
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 195052 in inkscape "Latex formula does not work on Ubuntu Hardy" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/195052
<jdong> JohnPhys: idn what our present release mgmt policy is, but I expect it to be just release-critical bugs
<jdong> JohnPhys: that bug has a simple fix but I'm not sure we can argue it's release critical. Perhaps hold for a stable release update to hardy-updates after release?
<jdong> I am disappointed that such a bite-sized trivial bug didn't get caught on mar 30 when it was still easy to upload it in :(
<JohnPhys> jdong:  Thanks for your info.  I should have been watching it more closely, I didn't notice that ubuntu wasn't listed in the "also affects" (I added it about a week ago, at kees' suggestion).
<nxvl> dholbach: you are going to include 5-a-day into intrepid?
<jdong> JohnPhys: yeah, I definitely want to do this fix as a stable release update for Hardy soon after release... it's such a simple fix
<JohnPhys> jdong:  I'll be watching that bug on my spare partition hardy install, as it prevents me from upgrading (latex equations in inkscape are nice for thesis figs :) )
<jdong> poke me if I forget.
<JohnPhys> jdong:  Will do, thanks again for your effort/interest on this.  I ran into bug #205667 while investigating this one.  That bug is more serious, but there's no fix yet (causes a nice fantastic inkscape crash).
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 205667 in inkscape "Inkscape crashes when using 3d box after attempting to render latex, gears, tree, barcode, maybe others." [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/205667
<JohnPhys> so I expect it will be some time before that gets fixed.  Luckily, I don't need the 3d box tool :)
<jdong> JohnPhys: ah, very nice.... crashers are always fun :)
<dholbach> nxvl: yeah, why not
<ajmitch> dholbach: 10 a day!
<superm1> i saw something in an apport changelog that apport gets turned off during release.  as people file bugs during a release is the standard going to be "please turn on apport and refile" then?
<jdong> 30 a day... OR ELSE...
<dholbach> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4 2006-08-23 17:28 /usr/bin/30-a-day-or-else -> 5-a-day
<ajmitch> just put in special code for jdong
<dholbach> if user == "jdong":
<dholbach>     ...
<JohnPhys> jdong:  I've uploaded a backtrace to that one, and bryce has looked at it, so hopefully there will be some movement on it soon.  I wish I had some programming ability, so that I could help rather than constantly pester devs about issues I find :).  Anyway, thanks again, I'll be sure to check in again on that latex rendering bug after hardy is released.
<jdong> JohnPhys: thanks for your help!
<jetsaredim> ï»¿how do I clear a bzr push lock?
<JohnPhys> jdong:  Thanks to all the devs!  without you, I'd be stuck in vista on my laptop!  anyway, I'm off!
<dholbach> jetsaredim: bzr break-lock
<jetsaredim> dholbach: hrm - try that and still says locked
<jetsaredim> been held for something like 20 min
<dholbach> jetsaredim: try asking in #bzr
<jml> jetsaredim: if it's bzr+ssh, then when you hit Ctrl-C after getting a lock message, bzr keeps trying to take the lock
<jml> because an SSH process stays around after bzr itself goes away
<jetsaredim> jml: awesome
<jml> jetsaredim: is that what's happening with you?
<jetsaredim> yea
<jml> jetsaredim: cool :) kill the ssh process and break the lock.
<jml> jetsaredim: this has been raised as a bug. I *think* it's fixed (poolie told me it was), but I haven't got around to verifying.
<jetsaredim> ahh
<jetsaredim> gotcha
<jetsaredim> jml: actually - it looks like this is locked on the server side
<jml> jetsaredim: hmm. hop on to #bzr and we can debug this further.
<warp10> Good morning
<geser> good morning
<dholbach> hi geser, hi warp10
<warp10> hey dholbach!
<geser> Hi dholbach
<\sh> moins
<geser> Hi \sh
<\sh> I wonder if I should blog about my adventures installing windows xp yesterday...actually it took me (with catching the drivers for the board for network etc., installing all security updates etc.) around 4 hours..while this morning installing ubuntu on the same machine it was only 30 mins and I had a running OS with all needed apps
<RAOF> \sh: Installing windows is so horribly boring, long, and tedious.  But I'm not sure that anyone in your blog's target audience wouldn't know this :)
<\sh> RAOF, yepp
<elmargol> Windows is a pain in the a...
<elmargol> Took me about an hour to remove every spyware application wich was preinstalled by dell
<\sh> fun part...I just have recovery cds at home...no real OEM...and I wanted to use the license on another computer...so I just had to download from somewhere else an OEM installation media...
<\sh> so actually I found at home round about 7 official windows xp license product keys...but no single simple OEM installation media
<geser> what is also fun is to install win xp on a sata drive where win xp needs a driver disk and you have no floppy drive in the pc anymore
<RAOF> Yeah.  I built my last system with a floppy drive with the express purpose of making sure windows was installable.
<\sh> geser, oh with this I had luck...the only thing that worked was the sata recognition of the onboard sata
<\sh> but the intel nic wasn't recognized :(
<jetsaredim> RAOF: sad that you would need to do that
 * jetsaredim hasn't needed windows for about 6 years
<RAOF> jetsaredim: I was a gamer at one point :P
 * jetsaredim has wii/ds/psp/ps3 for that
<elmargol> I have a PC for games and a notebook for everything else
<\sh> jetsaredim, If my tax application would run on wine, everything would be ok...but sadly, all tax apps I've used weren't working with wine :( and I'm sick and tired of this, but no chance to have a good tax app on linux...
<jetsaredim> \sh: you try kmymoney?
<jetsaredim> i assume you mean quicken or something
<jetsaredim> i don't have much need for such things
<\sh> jetsaredim, no...not account managing software...tax software for doing my tax application :)
<jetsaredim> ah - turbotax?
<\sh> jetsaredim, as I have still a company, i need to do more then the private stuff for german taxes
<jetsaredim> oh
<jetsaredim> like accounting software
<jetsaredim> gotcha
<jetsaredim> well - now you see a hole in the market
<jetsaredim> maybe you can develop some software to fill the void
<\sh> jetsaredim, oh tax software is special..there are some regulations...
<jetsaredim> yea - that was a joke
<jetsaredim> i don't have much need for such apps, so for me its not a big deal, plus I have an accountant
<\sh> accountants are thieves..;)
<\sh> at least some of them in germany are..
<jetsaredim> i don't mind paying a little extra to not have to deal with all of the numbers
<jetsaredim> and figuring out all of the in-and-out of the tax code in the us
<\sh> actually it's easy...and fun, that I learned accounting during my economics studies in my early ages..so it's not a big deal, with the right software at hand
<jetsaredim> i would imagine not
<jetsaredim> my problem would be with keeping up with all of the changes
<jetsaredim> they revise the tax code here every year
<jetsaredim> anyhow
<jetsaredim> this is not really motu discussion
<jetsaredim> sorry all
 * jetsaredim -> lurks
<\sh> damn...28 billions increase of google market price .. hell
<superm1> jetsaredim_, you still here?
<Fujitsu> crimsun: Of course, I wasn't going to apply all hunks. Thanks.
<Fujitsu> emgent: Pong.
<\sh> gnarf...
<\sh> can somebody confirm that releases.ubuntu.com (gallium) is somehow borked? I have a good ping time, but port 80 is slower then a 300 baud modem
<\sh> ok..using the dailies
<\sh> danm...when I see MoM and counting my name..../me needs a day with more then 24h
<\sh> rock...claws-mail 3.4.0 ;9
<\sh> anyone wants to file an FFe ?? ,-)
 * Fujitsu stabs \sh dead.
<\sh> harhar
<\sh> but...reading colins article about claws-imap implementation..http://www.colino.net/wordpress/archives/2008/04/17/claws-mails-imap-implementation/ gives me a warm feeling..this should work in kmail and evo too
<Fujitsu> Hm, that looks nice. Why don't we have a nice shiny uncrap IMAP lib?
<Fujitsu> Might make Evo's IMAP less useless.
<\sh> Fujitsu, and hopefully tells kmail no to crash on deleting lots of emails from my imap server :(
<Fujitsu> Indeed.
<Fujitsu> Unfortunately, Claws and Thunderbird are horribly ugly :(
<\sh> and did I ever tell you, that twitter via xmpp sucks ... and it sucks more when you only have 140 chars for your message :(
<\sh> [11:51:08 AM] Twitter Bot: Oops! Your update was over 140 characters. We sent the short version to your friends (they can view the entire update on the web).
<Fujitsu> Twitter sucks anyway, though.
<broonie> It's really useful for arranging social stuff at short notice but falls down badly otherwise.
<Fujitsu> Hmmmmmm. That SDL PulseAudio fix that worked for me a few days ago doesn't work now :S
<LucidFox> cd #ubuntu-ja
<LucidFox> oops
<spacepluk> Hi, I've updated a package and uploaded it to my PPA. Now what? :P
<spacepluk> should I upload the package to REVU?
<zul> anyone from the release team around?
<Hobbsee> limcore's comments in his channel make me oh so tempted to say no, though....
<Hobbsee> just out of sheer spite
<Hobbsee> seems a bit petty to decline something for an entire distribution, just because of one guy
 * ScottK remembers the CoC and quits typing.
<Ubluzok> Hello everybidy
<Ubluzok> Can you tell me smth about start to developing smthng for ubuntu?
<Ubluzok> Oh, I asked not a regular question
<Ubluzok> I think that I'm wery skillful in network technologies... suck routing, switching and VoIP and I can be a consultant for a lot of projects
<Ubluzok> Can you point on it?
<Ubluzok> Hey is there anybody?
<mok0> ! contribute
<ubotu> To contribute and help out with Ubuntu, see http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate
<Ubluzok> mok0: :lol:
<Ubluzok> ubotu: thanks
<ubotu> You're welcome! But keep in mind I'm just a bot ;-)
<mok0> Ubluzok: you don't have to thank him :-)
<Ubluzok> mok0: ^)
<Ubluzok> mok0: I know.... but I don't know that it a bot:)
<zul> Hobbsee: ping!
<zul> Hobbsee: so LP: #219343 ebox debug is turned on so it can display debug information however this information can also display things like passwords and if the user isnt careful enough then they can put their passwords in launchpad, not good
<mok0> Ubluzok: we use him a lot around here... a kind of slave labour that prints links etc
<ScottK> \sh: Just read your blog.  I should tell you about my accidental deployment of Hardy into production a few weeks ago.
<zul> Hobbsee: this affects both libebox and ebox
<mok0> ScottK, a strange new bug report on matplotlib surfaced today. I can't reproduce it: bug 220137
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 220137 in matplotlib "python: matplotlib window does not show graph in interactive mode" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/220137
<ScottK> mok0: I'm looking at it.
<mok0> Thanks, ScottK
<Hobbsee> zul: as discussed, +1
<Hobbsee> ScottK: please add that to your list
<zul> Hobbsee: thanks Ill upload it now
<ScottK> zul: Which ebox package is this in?
<zul> 0.11.99
<zul> ebox and libebox
<ScottK> OK.  Thanks.
<zul> Hobbsee: uploaded
<Hobbsee> zul: cool.  i can't accept, unfortunately
<zul> Hobbsee: thats fine
<Hobbsee> LP is borken :(
<ScottK> Need an opinion ...  ~3 weeks ago I got the setools package unforked from Debian, but had to put transitional packages to get Hardy users back on the restored Debian binary package names.
<ScottK> The question is, is 3 weeks enough for that.
<Fujitsu> Yes.
<ScottK> Thanks.
<Fujitsu> We're a devel release. People can't be expecting to get away with not upgrading new SELinux stuff for three weeks.
<ScottK> That's what I was thinking, but I was getting could feet.  I thought I'd double check before I asked to have the upload accepted.
<ScottK> zul: Was it libebox - 0.11.99-0ubuntu3?
<zul> ScottK: yep
<ScottK> mok0: bug commented.
<mok0> ScottK: I'll take a look in a minute
<Fujitsu> mok0: I can reproduce bug #220137.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 220137 in matplotlib "python: matplotlib window does not show graph in interactive mode" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/220137
<mok0> Fujitsu: aha
<mok0> Fujitsu: did you copy the python lines into a script?
<Fujitsu> I just used:
<Fujitsu> from pylab import *
<Fujitsu> ion()
<Fujitsu> plot([1, 2, 3])
<rexbron> jcastro: care to hop in #ubuntu-bleedingedge?
<mok0> Fujitsu: I get a nice graph
<Fujitsu> Huuuh.
<Fujitsu> Must be some GTK setting somewhere?
<mok0> Fujitsu: Is your system up-to-date?
<Fujitsu> I upgraded about 12 hours ago.
<mok0> Fujitsu: ok
<mok0> Fujitsu: I am running under kde4... I wonder if the WM has something to do with it
<Fujitsu> ScottK: OK to upload a new release of soundconverter which exists just to fix two crashers I forwarded? http://pastebin.com/f11d3ce5a is the changelog.
<ScottK> Fujitsu: Approved due to sense of humor in the changelog.
<Fujitsu> Heh.
<Fujitsu> Thanks.
<ScottK> cody-somerville: Is the xfce4-session upload in unapproved OK by you?
<mok0> If a package needs another one just to build the source package, how should that be described? In Build-Depends?
<Hobbsee> mok0: yes
<ScottK> I was thinking broken, but that too.
<cody-somerville> ScottK, The one by lionel, eh?
<cody-somerville> ScottK, then yes
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> Thanks
 * Hobbsee bleeps
<Hobbsee> mok0: you really are a MOTU, aren't you?
<mok0> Hobbsee: yes, but I still have a lot to learn
<sebner> mok0: want to upload something?
<sebner> mok0: upload = ACK
<Hobbsee> mok0: afaik, there isn't a separate list for what's required to build the source, but the stuff required to build the source is usually also required to build the binary
<mok0> sebner: I've got several things on my hands right now
<sebner> k, np
<mok0> Hobbsee: I've had the problem a few times, that even though a package is not required to build the binaries, it is still required to build the source package. There should be a field for in in debian/control
<Hobbsee> mok0: ubuntu accepts pre-done sources, and doesn't require rebuilding them.  But yes, it migth be ncie
<spacepluk> Hi, I've updated the ardour package but I don't know what to do to get it reviewed.
<broonie> mok0: Search the debian-policy archives, it's been discussed.
<mok0> broonie: ok, thanks
<ScottK> mok0: I'm interested to know what you find.
<rexbron> siretart: Is the debian packaging branch on launchpad for ffmpeg is current use?
<siretart> rexbron: no
<Fujitsu> ScottK: I actually got an IRC ack from Hobbsee for bug #216117 a couple of days ago.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 216117 in audit "[CVE-2008-1628] buffer overflow in lib/audit_logging.c" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/216117
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i think that already got on the accepted list, no?
<Fujitsu> It did.
<ScottK> Fujitsu: Fair enough.  I had no way of knowing that when going through unaccepted though.
<Fujitsu> Indeed.
<ScottK> Change the comment to please mark IRC ack's in the bug then.
<Fujitsu> Will do in future - sorry.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: sorry, we expected to be able to sohve it thru by me straight away.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: of course, launchpad, having run out of sacrifices, made that impossible
<ScottK> Right.
 * ScottK makes note to ensure processes assume LP will break at the worst possible time.
<Fujitsu> As usual.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: they've actually found the breakage now.
<ScottK> Dear vorian: re Bug #220026 - You can't just subscribe the archive.  Let's talk.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 220026 in ubuntu "Please sync chm2pdf 0.9-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/220026
<Hobbsee> ScottK: looks like he forgot to read man requestsync.
<Hobbsee> or any of the documentation
<ScottK> lool: Did you have an ack from motu-release ack for Bug #215844?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 215844 in elisa-plugins-ugly "Please sync elisa-plugins-ugly 0.3.4-3 from Debian unstable/incoming to fix missing dependency on gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/215844
<sebner> ScottK: well, he is a debian guy and wants his package in ubuntu :)
<ScottK> sebner: That's not how the process works.
<sebner> ScottK: I know. just funny
<ScottK> OK.
<sebner> ScottK: will you answer him or should I?
<ScottK> Answer who?
<sebner> ScottK: ah sry. vorian is here.
<lool> ScottK: Hmm I did not; I thought it was obvious enough, but sorry, I should have asked for a freeze exception
<emgent> ScottK: it`s possible apply exception to wordpress ?
<ScottK> lool: It is.  Sorry to be pedantic, but you know how it is.
<ScottK> emgent: Dunno.  I'm just trying to get unapproved sorted right now.
<emgent> now in hardy we have 2.3 and lenny have wordpress 2.5
<Fujitsu> emgent: Not at this stage.
<Fujitsu> The changes are big.
<emgent> yes i saw
<emgent> ok i will wait
<Fujitsu> I don't know why we have Wordpress in the archive at all.
<ScottK> Fujitsu: I'd ack the removal bug.
<ScottK> ;-)
<Fujitsu> A bit late for that :(
<lool> ScottK: That's fine; could we look into this now?
<emgent> Fujitsu: wordpress packages in ubuntu/debian permit multiuser in one installation
<Fujitsu> emgent: They also permit security vulnerabilities.
<ScottK> lool: I just ack'ed it.
<lool> ScottK: Thanks
<emgent> Fujitsu: True
<Fujitsu> Night all.
<ScottK> Good night Fujitsu
<emgent> night Fujitsu
<RainCT> Fujitsu: gn8
<ScottK> Ohhh.  We have bug supervisor's now.  "The bug supervisor for chm2pdf (Ubuntu) has been subscribed to this bug."
<sebner> ScottK: how many and what ACK's are necessary for a package removal? just curious ..
<Fujitsu> ScottK: It was renamed a couple of weeks ago, as structural-subscriptions means multiple people can subscribe to a pillar's bugs, so `bug contact' wasn't really a proper description.
<RainCT> sebner: MOTU ACK + motu-release ACK afaik
<RainCT> sebner: (or at least that's what I needed for the removal fo mozilla-firefox-adblock and some other extension)
<sebner> RainCT: ah. k
<ScottK> Fujitsu: 'supervisor' sounds a lot different than 'subscriber' though.
<Fujitsu> ScottK: Rightly so. Supervisor is just the renamed Contact.
<Fujitsu> It entails extra permissions.
<ScottK> I see.
<ScottK> I don't see any listing of who the supervisor is.
<Fujitsu> Should be on the pillar page.
 * Fujitsu looks.
<Fujitsu> `Bug supervisor:    Ubuntu Bugs'
<Fujitsu> (on /ubuntu)
<ScottK> Don't see one here: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/chm2pdf/+bug/220026
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 220026 in chm2pdf "Please sync chm2pdf 0.9-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<ScottK> Fujitsu: How do I sign up to be a bug supervisor?  I don't see that either?
<Fujitsu> SourcePackages aren't pillars. They don't have a supervisor.
<dholbach> you mean  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gedit/+subscribe ?
<Fujitsu> If you head over to the Bugs tab of a pillar or SourcePackage, or DistroSeries, or DistroSeriesSourcePackage, you should have a link to subscribe to the bugmail.
<Fujitsu> Or use the much nicer URL which dholbach produced.
<Fujitsu> Rather than battling LP navigation.
<ScottK> Then in what context does "The bug supervisor for chm2pdf (Ubuntu) has been subscribed to this bug." make sense.  There is no chm2pdf (Ubuntu) bug supervisor?
<Fujitsu> I considered filing a bug about that message last week. I suspect it is there to indicate that the supervisor and subscribers are implicitly subscribed.
<Fujitsu> The supervisor being inherited from the distro.
<ScottK> In this particular case the bug went from Ubuntu to chm2pdf(Ubuntu) so I'd expect supervisors to be unchanged if I understand you correctly.
<ScottK> There shouldn't be a message at all then.
<Fujitsu> No, people could be subscribed to chm2pdf.
<Fujitsu> Oh, well, the supervisor is unchanged, right.
<ScottK> So the old message about subscribers would be right, but the supervisor context is unchanged.
<Fujitsu> Correct.
<Fujitsu> It should also probably say `implicitly subscribed' or similar.
<ScottK> Now if I go to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-dns/+subscribe all I see is subscription options.  Nothing about supervisor.
<Fujitsu> Right. The supervisor is only on the distro or distroseries.
<Fujitsu> (or project or projectseries)
<Fujitsu> Hm, no supervisors on series, actually.
<Fujitsu> The supervisor is defined by the owner or driver or similar of the project. Not by themselves.
<Fujitsu> Just like the old Bug Contact.
<ScottK> OK.  You said SourcePackage earlier, so I'm confused again.
<Fujitsu> 00:25:57 < Fujitsu> SourcePackages aren't pillars. They don't have a supervisor.
<Fujitsu> Subscription != supervisor
<Fujitsu> Although the latter entails the former.
<ScottK> Ah.  Got it.
 * ScottK suddenly remembers he thinks the LP U/I is FUBAR and lacks credibility on the topic.
<Fujitsu> IMO it should all be done by the structural subscriptions mechanism, dropping the Bug Supervisor field, and letting the driver mark subscribers as privileged or otherwise.
<Fujitsu> That would hopefully make more sense, as there'd be one place and one term for subscribers.
<zul> ScottK: I would like to get this one in as well https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ebox-usersandgroups/+bug/220262
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 220262 in ebox-usersandgroups "ebox-usersandgroups fails to intialise slapd directory" [Undecided,New]
<ScottK> zul: Ack'ed
<zul> ScottK: thanks
 * Hobbsee ponders envyng some more
 * Hobbsee thought a negative ack was clear enough.
 * Hobbsee *really* doesn't like a non-MOTU being able to change a stable distro at his own whim, just by changing his PPA>
 * jpatrick now knows why Hobbsee's system keeping exploding
<Hobbsee> jpatrick: i don't use it.
<jpatrick> :)
<Hobbsee> still, that's a good way of avoiding SRU's.  add lines to MOTU PPA or something, push updates to there, no SRU required.
<Hobbsee> jpatrick: i learnt, after my marvell wifi card.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: I completely agree about EnvyNG.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: wish there were veto powers.
 * ScottK is thinking we need a spec on policy for updates from outside the official repositories or something.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: it's just another piece to add to the discussion about whether I have continued interest in MOTU, in it's current state.
<Hobbsee> and the state it's likely to turn out to be.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: it's now done for all hardy users.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: there's no actual way to stop it now, as i'm sure that a new version will be updated to the ppa, so people can safely dist-upgrade to intrepid.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: it's too late to pull the intrepid version - once it's in hardy, they have root access to the hardy systems, and anything dist-upgraded can be tampered with, without user intervention.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: If there's a policy change that recognizes the security risks with the current approach, then an SRU/security upload could fix it.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: yes, if they chose to pull it.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: then again, the chances of that happening, after the current debate about it....
 * ScottK ponders filing a bug about it.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: then again, i'ts not infeasible that while the discussion about pulling it was occuring, the makers would add other ways of ensuring that it stays on the system.
<ScottK> Ture.
<ScottK> Ture/True
<Hobbsee> ScottK: you'll need to be awful fast - release is soon
<Hobbsee> ScottK: all the safety procedures about what happens if a MOTU goes bad (dev release can be reverted) goes out the window with this approach.
<ScottK> Yep.
 * ScottK is asking in #ubuntu-hardened (security).
<Hobbsee> i'd still prefer to see it SRU'd each time, or at least looked over by a core dev if it doesn't follow all the procedures.
<Hobbsee> even though there's more pain and annoyance doing it that way
<ScottK> Agreed.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: i guess this is the difference in thoughts - the people who agreed to it tend to agree that people will stay good, and will always DTRT.
<Hobbsee> whereas we are aware that may not be the case.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: i'd suggest you find some mega awesome way of getting it seen, because we're just going to run out of time here
<cody-somerville> hmm?
<ScottK> Hobbsee: I'm sort of hoping someone on the other channel will get excited.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: i'm discussing it with jcastro here too
 * Hobbsee looks up the bug
<ScottK> K.
 * Hobbsee cries
 * Hobbsee doesn't want to use that abomination of a page
<Hobbsee> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/210112
<Hobbsee> there we are
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 210112 in ubuntu "FFe for EnvyNG" [Undecided,Fix released]
<Hobbsee> ScottK: remember, you must mention the word "veto" apparently.
<ScottK> Well I got sick of arguing, which I probably shouldn't have.
<kees> hola, can someone from motu-release review (and hopefully approve) bug 220273?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 220273 in mythtvfs-fuse "Please sync mythtvfs-fuse 0.5.1-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/220273
<Hobbsee> ScottK: so you compromised the archive?!?!?
<Hobbsee> ScottK: (all this applies to me too, though)
<ScottK> I'm not sure.
<Hobbsee> effectively
<ScottK> I said I'm not going to approve it and I think it's a bad idea.
<Hobbsee> if the guy turns bad, the entire archive is screwed.
<Hobbsee> right.  so the others compromised it
<ScottK> I'm more comfortable with that perspective.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: if this is the new way of MOTU, then dude, i'm so not interested in playing ball.
<Hobbsee> I have better things to do than turn this into an rpm-hell land.
<ScottK> So far there's only been one person I've seen pushing for volume over quality.  I think the community as a whole is pretty against going down the bad road.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: true.  but i don't think this is the same thing.
<ScottK> I think it's "let's do it the easy way rather than the right way".  It's related.
<Hobbsee> yeah
<Hobbsee> ScottK: hey, now if you filed a removal bug, and i ack'd it, do you think they'd do it?
<mok0> How long does it take from the time a build has completed, till it is available for new package builds?
<Hobbsee> even better, kees could file the bug after his reactions in -hardended, and we could both ack it
<ScottK> Hobbsee: I doubt it.  I think getting someone with a security perspective fired up about it is our best bet.
<ScottK> Yep.
<Hobbsee> heya dendrobates!
<ScottK> It may be at this point changing permissions on the PPA is the best way.
<dendrobates> Hobbsee: hi
<Hobbsee> while they're out of the control of canonical, or core devs / motu, there's no guarentee that will help.
<Hobbsee> as in, those actual teams, or subsets, not the users.
<Hobbsee> er, not the developers in those teams
<kees> so, my take on envyNG is that it fixes more than it breaks.
<Hobbsee> kees: unless the developer goes bad.
<Hobbsee> kees: or decides to take advantage of his free ride into ubuntu
<ScottK> Yes, but in a really bad way from a security perspective.
<kees> Hobbsee: true, but that's no different than before -- he was already providing updates to people directly.
<emgent> heya kees :)
<Hobbsee> kees: doesn't mean it's official, and doesn't mean it's supported by ubuntu.
<kees> heya emgent
<ScottK> kees: So any 3rd party crack is OK in the repos because it was distributed 3rd party before?
<Hobbsee> kees: while third party packages can be blamed for dist-upgrades that they've caused, etc, the stuff in ubuntu is expected to actually work.
<kees> Hobbsee: AIUI, the long-term goal has been to help get Alberto as close to motu as possible, which has proven a difficult process.
<kees> ScottK: In general, I don't agree with that.  envy is a bit of a special-case.
<Hobbsee> kees: i'm not comfortable with one person having direct access to the archive, no matter what they do.
<ScottK> kees: What's the difficulty?
<Hobbsee> speaking of which, i should get the chan contact of this chan changed to the irc council, instead of it being as me, for the same reason.
<ScottK> kees: I'm not sure how it's a special case.  If it's ok to give non-developers access to updates, then it's OK.
<ScottK> If it's not OK, then something needs to change.
<Hobbsee> may as well throw out the SRU process if you were going to do that, too.
<kees> ScottK: I think the "problem" is one of not having a "volatile".  envy's problems are the same as clamav's.
<Hobbsee> kees: do we have clamav updates being pulled from a ppa too?
<ScottK> kees: Yep.  And so I expend a lot of effort to work within the system.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: We do not.
<Hobbsee> good.
<Hobbsee> hi tseliot, your package is being discussed.
<cody-somerville> :(
<kees> Hobbsee: no, but my point is, there is a need for "constantly updated package", that this seems to be similar to.
<tseliot> Hobbsee: yes, I picked that up
<ScottK> Agreed, but the solution is not hand out access to non-developers.
<kees> please note, I'm not saying I'm happy about this, I'm saying I'm more comfortable with it being envyng than just some random package
<Hobbsee> kees: so, SRU it.  last i checked, the requirements had been lessened.  If they're still not good enough, then they need fixing further, not circumventing.
<Hobbsee> i see the point that it needs updating, i'm disagreeing with the way it happens.
<imbrandon> hrm can i revert a whole working copy to a previous version ( svn )
<kees> Hobbsee: right, that would be my quesiton as well -- why can't everything go into universe?
<Hobbsee> kees: the stuff in the PPA?
<kees> Hobbsee: right.
<Hobbsee> kees: it gets updated a lot, apparently.
<kees> clearly there isn't a distributability problem since it's in a PPA.
<Hobbsee> apart from that, i'm unsure
<ScottK> The only answer we got when the FFe was being reviewed was a bunch of Canonical people have reviewed this and it's good.  Please approve.
<kees> since those things don't have external deps (like clamav) it should be trivial to rev them when they need it.
<Hobbsee> I hate to think of mass-user systems being compromised if tseliot's ssh key / LP account does.
<tseliot> Hobbsee: as I said, EnvyNG is updated only if there are bugs.
<ScottK> All the more reason to not work around the system.
<ScottK> tseliot: That's irrelevant to the question.
<Hobbsee> tseliot: meant the drivers themselves
<tseliot> ï»¿Hobbsee: ah, ok
<Hobbsee> tseliot: the main problem is that people don't want to trust, for the next 5 years, with no path of recourse, that the archive, by your account, won't get compromised.
 * kees goes to comment on the bug
<Hobbsee> whether that's by you, or someone else.
<ScottK> kees: FYI, I ack'ed your mythtvfs-fuse sync for motu-release.
 * kees hugs ScottK
<ScottK> kees: We'll need more than that as it's already in the archive.
<Hobbsee> tseliot: it backs people into a very tight corner, in the event that anything goes wrong.
<Hobbsee> because they can't do anything.
<Hobbsee> (short of ditching your LP account)
<Hobbsee> or handing control to someone else, reverting the changes, and then ditching your LP account.
<tseliot> Hobbsee: envyng --uninstall-all would do it
<ScottK> tseliot: Depends on what it had installed.
<Hobbsee> tseliot: which could have a rm -rf / in it, if someone (or you) compromised your account - which had gone thru no QA checks at all.
<tseliot> ScottK: can you give me an example?
<Hobbsee> it's almost a rootkit waiting to happen.
<kees> ScottK: right, I'm going to talk to dholbach and pitti.
<kees> ScottK: I suspect the best course is to move the drivers into universe, and do an SRU of envyng.
<ScottK> kees: Yes.  Please.  (probably multiverse though).
<kees> ScottK: right, yes
 * Hobbsee scratches head
<Hobbsee> does ppa allow stuff that falls into multiverse?
<ScottK> Hobbsee: I think it does now.
<Hobbsee> ah right
<Hobbsee> not when i last saw the documentation, and helped write it
<ScottK> If the drivers could go into Universe/Main, there wouldn't be a need for Envy at all.
<tseliot> ScottK: would this be done for Hardy?
<kees> I think that's an issue of a split between "well tested" and "bleeding edge"
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> I'm personally more worried about getting the trust boundry right.
<leileilol> hm
<leileilol> i'm about to release openarea-0.7.6 am i too late for this to be in the hardy repository? :(
<ScottK> tseliot: That'd be my hope.
<sebner> leileilol: yes
<ScottK> leileilol: Unless it's only bug fixes and there's a MOTU that's really motivated to help get it in, yes.
<tseliot> ScottK: then DKMS would have to be moved to main too
<ScottK> IIRC DKMS is a management tool for stuff you still have to grab yourself.
<leileilol> :(
<kees> ScottK: lirc uses it.
<leileilol> well 0.7.0 is incompatible with 0.7.6 servers and the versa
<james_w> can anyone reproduce https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/aalib/+bug/218868 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 218868 in aalib "libaa1-dev uninstallable; causes FTBFS in other packages" [Critical,New]
<james_w> is it amd64 specific?
<ScottK> leileilol: Wouldn't it be better to call that 0.8 then.
<ScottK> kees: Right, so another reviewed package uses it as a management tool.  No problems there.
<leileilol> no because i'm saving that version number for a august 8 release
<ScottK> Well breaking compatiibility in last digit releases is really confusing.
<ScottK> leileilol: Get it into intrepid and then ask for a backport.
<tseliot> ï»¿ScottK: who (in your opinion) should update these drivers every time that a new version is released (e.g. by NVIDIA)?
<Hobbsee> tseliot: anyone will do.  just by someone who actually goes thru code review.
<ScottK> IMO nothing should get automatically installed in a user's system without a review by an actual Ubuntu develeper.  In the case of released systems such updates should go through the SRU/security/backports process.
<Hobbsee> and those who have upload rights should be doing the code review
<tseliot> Hobbsee: what if a user doesn't want to update the driver (e.g. if the latest driver contains a regression)? EnvyNG is something which you install only if you want the latest driver. Uploading the driver to main would force users to pinpoint the package version.
<ScottK> tseliot: But updating EnvyNG would not do that.
<Hobbsee> tseliot: i've got absolutely on problem with the concept of envyng.
<ScottK> If the updates were all in Universe
<Hobbsee> tseliot: i just think that *all* of it's updates should go through a comprehensive QA review, like it does for SRU in universe.
<Hobbsee> like any other package
<ScottK> Personally, I think EnvyNG hands the least open source friendly video company a lot of cash, so I'm not a fan, but this is entirely separate from my political reservations about it.
<tseliot> Hobbsee: I have no problem with that. Finding someone who can review them would mean wasting the time of the kernel team, I guess.
<Hobbsee> tseliot: so be it.
<Hobbsee> tseliot: i'd prefer that, and to be sure of the quality of the archive, than the alternative.
<tseliot> ï»¿ScottK: my laptop has an Intel card, guess why...
<ScottK> Mine too.
<ScottK> So do all of my less than a handful of years old desktops.
<tseliot> ï»¿Hobbsee: let the kernel team decide about this. BenC reviewed the current packages but he's a very busy man.
<Hobbsee> tseliot: i'm fairly sure that the kernel team will prefer a bit extra reviewing, compared to a possible compromised archive.
<Hobbsee> last i checked, they don't sponsor fixes from anywhere, just to get them in.
<ScottK> I'm confident that kees will approach the question with an appropriate sense of paranoia.
<Hobbsee> tseliot: if you scrwe up, for eg, (and lets face it, we all do), you have no second chance - it goes straight to users stable systems.
<Hobbsee> it being "official", that's usually bad for the ubuntu name.
<kees> ScottK: I will try.  :)  It sounds like the "testing" problem is less of an problem than the "package sanity" issue.  envy is designed specifically to get bleeding-edge drivers, so obviously, only limited testing is possible (which is why the restricted drivers exist -- stability).  just making sure the drivers themselves are sanely packaged sounds like it needs a quick SRU-like review from motu or core-dev.
<ScottK> Agreed.
<ScottK> I'm mostly worried about the question of something other than the real driver getting directly provided to end users.
<ScottK> kees: ^^
<tseliot> ï»¿kees: I agree with you
<kees> ScottK: right, I'm with you there.  :)  I'm lumping this under "package sanity".
<ScottK> OK.  We're on the same page then.
<kees> tseliot: cool, we'll get this sorted out.  people want envy, we just need to make sure it's all happy.  :)
<ScottK> Much like the flash-nonfree md5sum needs to be SRU'ed each time they update.
<tseliot> ï»¿kees: ok then ;)
<mok0> ScottK, did you close bug  137519 in the changelog?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 137519 in sshfs-fuse "Please sync sshfs-fuse 1.9-1 (universe) from debian unstable (main)" [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/137519
<ScottK> It's a sync, so now.  Archive admins do that.  It just got done.
<ScottK> now/no
<mok0> Ah, ok
<laga> how frozen are the archives?
<mok0> laga: only bugfixes, and everything needs approval
<laga> ah, that's good enough for me
<mok0> I have a whole bunch of source packages that I need to recompile for hardy. What's the best way to do that?
<elmargol> mok0: pbuilder or ppa
<mok0> pbuilder
<mok0> elmargol: I am writing a script this very minute
<RainCT> mok0: I started writing a script for this for ScottK (but I'm not sure if I finished it.. :S)
<mok0> RainCT: heh
<RainCT> mok0: here it is: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7681/
<mok0> ah, cool python
<mok0> RainCT: thanks! I will take a look at it
<RainCT> mok0: you create a file with a list of packages, run "./script_name file_list.txt" (and optionally as 2nd argument a directory - else it will create one in /tmp and tell you it's name),  and it will download the packages (with apt-get source), build them with pbuilder-dist, and stores the build logs
<DktrKranz2> mok0: you may want to look at rebuildd too
<mok0> DktrKranz2: Thx. Not much info in the manpage
<mok0> :-)
<DktrKranz2> heh
<DktrKranz2> as usual, mine for deb-o-matic needs love too
<RainCT> DktrKranz2: does rebuildd do the same as my script? (being more advanced, of course)
<DktrKranz2> RainCT: TBH, don't know. IIRC, that program is meant to rebuild packages already in the archives
<mok0> RainCT: It looks like it's the same thing
 * DktrKranz2 leaves, back to aDSL-less status now \o/
<RainCT> damn, why do I end up rewriting everything? LOL
<RainCT> ScottK: could you have a look at bug #204600 please? (it's pretty trivial)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 204600 in amule "[hardy] Fix Spanish translation of aMule" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/204600
<nixternal_> anyone able to provide any additional MOTU/Packaging talks for OpenWeek?
<afflux> I got a bit stuck with packaging: I'm using cdbs with python-distutils, I want to produce two packages: one python-foo, one python-foo-doc. The documentation is not built using distutils but by another command. How do I tell cdbs to 1.) use the other command for building the docs, 2.) install the distutils stuff to the python-foo package and the doc stuff to python-foo-doc?
<RainCT> afflux: run that command in debian/rules (in the build/binary-package-name:: target)
<afflux> what's target?
<RainCT> afflux: section.. just write that and on the next line (indented) the code you want to run
<afflux> hm, will check that
<RainCT> afflux: and if cdbs puts the distutils stuff into the wrong binary package, there's a variable to overwrite that
<afflux> *try
<RainCT> (but I don't know which)
<RainCT> afflux: (fyi, if the documentation was also installed by distutils then what you would have to do is use that variable to let it install the stuff in debian/tmp and then put it in the packages using install files)
<ScottK> RainCT: Ack.
<RainCT> ScottK: thx
<zul> nixternal: your blog has blinded me..
<nixternal> :)
<RainCT> how can I test if a quilt patch applies?
<sebner> RainCT: quilt push -a
<sebner> RainCT: though all patches will be applied
<RainCT> doesn't work.. No patches in series
<RainCT> but there are patches listed in debian/patches/series
<sebner> RainCT: and are there patches in debian/patches? ^^
<RainCT> of course
<sebner> wired
<ScottK> Going through here: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+builds?build_text=&build_state=depwait&start=0&batch=50 and fixing anything that's Universe and depwait on i386 or amd64 would be really handy and I'd ack fixes for that.
 * ScottK is already taking care of python-omniorb
<albert23> RainCT: did you export QUILT_PATCHES=debian/patches?
<RainCT> albert23: thanks
<kees> Hobbsee, ScottK: as a temporary work-around to bug 174038, do you mind if I upload a no-change version bump for mobile-player and mobile-application-service ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 174038 in soyuz "bad md5sum in Packages file" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/174038
<RainCT> good night
<vorian> ScottK: I didn't intend on sending that bug... sorry for the spam
<vorian> ScottK: i marked it invalid
#ubuntu-motu 2008-04-22
<ScottK> Hobbsee: You'll probably want to subscribe to Bug #220385 - It's milestoned for the release, which is good, I guess.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 220385 in envyng-core "envy needs to pull drivers from multiverse, not PPA" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/220385
<Jazzva> ScottK, thanks for the teatime ack...
<jdong> you know what *really* ruins my day?
<jdong> having FreeBSD drop to emergency shell and realizing there's only ed at my disposal for fixing fstab
<jml> hahaha
<jml> sorry, I shouldn't laugh.
 * RAOF has never even _seen_ ed.
<jml> RAOF: it's worth looking at.
<jml> and also maybe it's worth reading "ed man! man ed!"
<RAOF> Hm.  Lots and lots of '?'s
<StevenK> RAOF: It's a prompt, it wants ed commands :-)
<jml> that's the intuitive user interface.
<jml> it doesn't try to confuse you with a bunch of crazy error messages.
<RAOF> Ah, I note that ! is 'run in shell'
<ScottK> soren: Did you get a 2nd ack for rawserver before you uploaded it?
<bddebian> Heya gnag
<bddebian> Err gang
<ScottK> Heya bddebian.
<bddebian> Hi ScottK
<soren> ScottK: I believe the policy says that when the motu-release team has collectively decided that it's good stuff, someone will set it to confirmed. Someone had done so, so I assumed all was well.
<soren> Was that wrong?
<ScottK> It wasn't set by motu-release it was set by someone else and I reverted it when I saw it.
<ScottK> soren: I think (myself) it's a good thing to have, but we need a 2nd ack and don't have it yet.
<soren> ScottK: Oh, sorry about that. I just thought at both you and sispoty sounded positive towards it.
<ScottK> Hobbsee or TheMuso: Would you please consider Bug #219552
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 219552 in rawstudio "[FFe] Update rawstudio to 1.0" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/219552
<ScottK> soren: Let me read what he wrote again and see if I can convince myself it's an ack.
 * soren chuckles
<ScottK> I can't really manage it as he indicates generally good, but asks for more info about testing.
<PartyBoi2> Hello, There is a upcoming Packaging 101 session on the 29th and I was wondering how would I get a hold of the transcripts of this event after it is finished?
<imbrandon> PartyBoi2: they should be placed on the wiki after
<PartyBoi2> thanks imbrandon, I will check that out after the session has finished
<kees> ScottK: can you ack 174038?  I figured I'd just go get it cleaned up for hardy at least with a work-around.
 * ScottK looks.
<ScottK> kees: Done.
<jdong> has anyone tried hotpluggin LVM devices?
<ScottK> kees: Accepted too.
<kees> ScottK: heh, rockin' thanks
<TheMuso> jdong: I've had an LVM volume on an external disk before, and whil eht elMV wasn't mounted, it was available to use/mount.
<jdong> TheMuso: ok so the LVs will automatically appear in /dev/mapper and nothign will explode if I remove the device?
<TheMuso> jdong: You need to de-activate the LVs before you remove the device.
<soren> jdong: You didn't say anything about hot *un*-plugging :)
<jdong> TheMuso: ah :)
<jdong> soren: lol
<jdong> soren: reminds me of FreeBSD on the EEEPC. It didn't occur to me the wifi toggle actually physically removed the device from the PCI bus.
<jdong> ath.c was NOT happy.
<soren> Heh :)
<Fujitsu> jdong: You really do manage to come up with some of the strangest most masochistic configs.
<bddebian> heh
<jdong> LOL
<jdong> the world's most hated tester? :D
<TheMuso> heh
<ScottK> bddebian or jdong: Got a moment for a spot of sponsoring?
<ScottK> If so, Bug #190450 is approved by motu-release.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 190450 in ov51x-jpeg "Can't compile ov511-source on hardy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/190450
<Hobbsee> ScottK: ah, thanks
<Hobbsee> kees: looks like you've already done so anyway
<kees> Hobbsee: yawp, ScottK snagged it.  thanks.
<Hobbsee> np
<On3> hello?
<DanikarPN> hi
<On3> what exprience is needed to join the motu team
<On3> im an average C++ programmer, haven't really done much on linux but, eager to learn and join the team, what exprience would i need?
<ScottK> motu is mostly about packaging, so programming experience is not absolutely required.  It is a plus in that it helps with working on bug fixing.
<On3> i see...
<On3> thats cool then
<On3> when does the freeze end? and is there anything I could do to start now?
<cool> Hobbsee, hi there!
<Hobbsee> hey cool!
<cool> whats sup?
<ScottK> On3: studying and learning is best for now.  You can start with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing
<On3> ScottK, any other recources I should read or pratice?
<ScottK> That's a start.  The packaging guide is another.  Debian New Maintainer guide is another good resource.
<ScottK> crimsun: If your around, could you please look after uploading the fix in Bug #216397 (any other MOTU feel free too).
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 216397 in libsdl1.2 "sdl patch for better pulseaudio support" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/216397
<ScottK> Bug #19045 could also use some sponsoring.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 19045 in synaptic "display top level packages" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19045
<Fujitsu> ScottK: I uploaded bug #216397 last night. I unfortunately failed to notice it was in main.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 216397 in libsdl1.2 "sdl patch for better pulseaudio support" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/216397
<Fujitsu> So it needs a core-dev.
<ScottK> Ah.
<ScottK> It also needs a different release manager to ack it.
<Fujitsu> Yeah.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: as you're the last uploader, did you want to look into that?
<TheMuso> ScottK: thats main afaik
<ScottK> So I'm now informed.
<ScottK> Missed a digit on one of those bugs.  Bug #190450
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 190450 in ov51x-jpeg "Can't compile ov511-source on hardy" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/190450
<ScottK> That's in Universe.
<TheMuso> I've run that patch by slangasek and he wasn't sure about it, since it changes spacing for a start...
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> StevenK: Did you still intend to upload Bug #181150?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 181150 in moko "[FFe] moko contains a shared library with no soname/dev package handling" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/181150
<ScottK> I'd also appreciate it if someone who's less tired than I am would look into Bug #203948 and figure out which revision we want.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 203948 in zaptel "zaptel 1.4.8~dfsg-1 fails to compile under kernel 2.6.24" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/203948
<ScottK> That's all I got and I'm off to bed.
<macd> <macd> is there an easy way to make a change to just a control file, rather than having to rebuild the entire package? (it is a depends on change)
<ScottK> A .deb is an ar archive.  Unpack it, change it, repack it.  If that's easy for you, then yes.
<macd> I didnt think the directory structure could be maintained, but ok, I'll try
<macd> what format is a deb packed as?
<macd> ohh, ar
<TheMuso> macd: A .deb package is an ar archive, containing two tarballs, one with the package files, and the other with the package metadata.
<macd> I just tried to repack it as .ar, rename to .deb, debdiff complains about it not being  valid archive now.
<RAOF> macd: For what its worth, you can also manipulate .debs using dpkg-deb - including unpacking and repacking.
<macd> thx, I figured it out with ar, but I cant seem to repack the control directory the proper way, its there, but the new package has control/ rather than ./control/ structure
<superm1> file-roller can do a lot of that too if you want a gui like tool to do it
<RAOF> Or dpkg-deb it, of course.  That's what I've used in the past, and I was just fiddling around.
<superm1> it probably uses dpkg-deb on the backend
<superm1> i've never tried on a fresh install.
<superm1> for all i know it must be installed to work
<macd> I feel pretty dumb, I was in control, trying to tar it up rather than being outside the dir.
<\sh> moins btw
<emgent> mornign \sh :)
<emgent> *morning*
<\sh> hey emgent
<\sh> emgent, looks like I'm not the only one so early at work ,-)
<emgent> heheh true :)
<macd> RAOF, doesnt dpkg-deb extract it as it would on the filesystem? and the control stuff just dissappears
<RAOF> macd: Not if you ask it to extract the control stuff to the same directory you've extracted everything else to.
 * macd goes to pull hair out and rtfm
<macd> Ive done sru's that were easier than this ;)
<Fujitsu> macd: Why not just rebuild it?
<macd> I just need a change to the control file, I figured this would be alot faster
<macd> Fujitsu, RAOF, superm1 thanks, I'll come back to it tomm. when Im not so aggravated and preoccupied with halo :)
<jdong> oh man, I think while case shopping I've found my FAVORITE piece of marketing lingo.
<jdong> "...uses precise part placement based on thermo-fluid analysis  to achieve semi-hermetic construction"
<jdong> that is just.... beautiful....
 * RAOF does his calculations with phlogiston.
<jdong> I think that means they put heatsinks on hot things, directed air through the case, and put a dust screen on the intake?
<On3> whats the ubuntu MOTU link on launchpad?
<dholbach> good morning
<nixternal> mornin'
<highvoltage> anyone know where I could get a free pink pony image (preverably SVG?)
<StevenK> ScottK: Bug 181150 dealt with, thanks for the poke
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 181150 in moko "[FFe] moko contains a shared library with no soname/dev package handling" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/181150
<megabyte405> hey, any idea why alphabetizing my build-deps list has caused libglade-2.0 to go missing in the configure of a build?
 * Hobbsee suspects that you changed a build dep, rather than just alphabetising.
<megabyte405> all I did was a s/, /\n/, a sort, and a s/\n/, / in gedit
<megabyte405> and I looked at the list and as far as I can tell it looks the same
<megabyte405> libglade is part of the gtk package, isn't it?
<soren> no
<megabyte405> hmm, I do see that now
 * megabyte405 looking at old build logs to see what the deal is
<megabyte405> looks like a build dep I removed was pulling it in as a side effect
<soren> ...
<soren> 07:27:29 < megabyte405> all I did was a s/, /\n/, a sort, and a s/\n/, / in gedit
<soren> " a build dep I removed "
<soren> Something doesn't add up here :)
<megabyte405> ah, right :)
<megabyte405> well, I alphabetized after removing what should have been optional
<megabyte405> so someone was lucky in the past with the dependencies
<megabyte405> I should doublecheck and make sure all explicit deps used are explicitly listed
<james_w> is it one ACK or two needed from motu-release for a bugfix upload?
<Fujitsu> james_w: One.
<james_w> thanks
<tkamppeter> I need a freeze exception for multiverse, bug 219509
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 219509 in brother-cups-wrapper-laser1 "printing Din A4 format not working" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/219509
<norsetto> mok0: around?
<mok0> norsetto?
<norsetto> mok0: seen my query?
<mok0> No
<mok0> email?
<norsetto> mok0: can you ask for a give back to a buildd-admin for fnonlinear, fregression and funitroots?
<mok0> yes, I noticed they didn't compile due to robustbase
<mok0> How do I do that?
<geser> mok0: ask a build-admin in #ubuntu-devel
<geser> mok0: e.g. pitti or Mithrandir
<mok0> geser: ok, thanks
<norsetto> just ask in #ubuntu-devel, you can akso ask to anyone in https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-buildd-admins if you want
<mok0> norsetto: and "give back" means they put it in the queue again?
<norsetto> mok0: yes
<mok0> norsetto: great
<norsetto> mok0: but next time pls. check before uploading ;-)
<mok0> norsetto: I am puzzled why they couldn't find robustbase
<mok0> norsetto: I thought I did check :-(
<norsetto> mok0: was still not DONE
<mok0> norsetto: Ah!
<Fujitsu> Depwaits don't require give-backs.
<norsetto> Fujitsu: yes, but its not a depwait
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<Fujitsu> One of those.
<tkamppeter> saivann, ping
<tkamppeter> Anyone of motu-release can have a look at bug 206365?
<mok0> norsetto: they are building now
<norsetto> mok0: nks!
<tkamppeter> bug 206365
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 206365 in brother-lpr-drivers-extra "Changing paper type does not have any effects" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/206365
<stani> is hardy now completely frozen or can patches still be submitted?
<norsetto> stani: if the pacth fixes an important issue it can still be submitted
<stani> ok, thanks,than I'll try
<Hobbsee> norsetto: did those get given back?
<norsetto> hobbsee: yes, the most honourable pitti gave them back
<Hobbsee> cool
 * norsetto -> lunch
<Riddell> tjaalton: got a motu-review person to approve that vdr-plugin-xineliboutput upload?
<tjaalton> Riddell: not yet..
<Riddell> tjaalton: want to poke one into doing so, I imagine they just need to look at the failed bulid and the succcessful one in the ppa
<tjaalton> Riddell: motu-review or motu-release?-
<tjaalton> )
<Riddell> motu-release, that's the one
<tjaalton> ok, I'll just subscribe them to the bug
<Fujitsu> Can I please have an exception for soundconverter 1.0.2, which contains a single bugfix for a crash which I reported to upstream a couple of hours ago?
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: ^^
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: yes
<Fujitsu> Ergh, there are other autotools updates not mentioned in the changelog. Backporting the patch it is.
<tjaalton> Hobbsee: could you check bug 200906, I've uploaded a new vdr-plugin-xineliboutput which fixed a FTBFS bug on 64bit systems due to dpkg-buildpackage using default values for *FLAGS
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 200906 in vdr-plugin-xineliboutput "in alpha6 broken!" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/200906
<tjaalton> built fine on my ppa
<Hobbsee> tjaalton: OK
<tjaalton> Hobbsee: great, thanks
<Hobbsee> np
<ScottK> StevenK: There's a moblin-image-creator upload waiting to be accepted that I think is yours.  Did you have some kind of motu-release approval for it?
<spacepluk> Hi all, I guess everybody is too busy with the release to sponsor an update... aren't you? :)
<Fujitsu> spacepluk: Not only are we too busy, there's nowhere to sponsor to.
<ScottK> Unless it's a critical bug fix that would be approved by motu-release.
<ScottK> StevenK: Nevermind.  Forgot to refresh my queue page.
<ScottK> Note to self: Coffee then motu-release stuff.
<spacepluk> Fujitsu: I'm sorry, I don't get it
<Fujitsu> spacepluk: Unless it's a very critical bug, there's nowhere to sponsor it to.
<Fujitsu> Intrepid isn't yet open, and Hardy is very frozen.
<spacepluk> Fujitsu: ok, no problem. I'll wait a couple of weeks
<Hobbsee> ScottK: it's crack.  it's always crack.  just accept it.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: consider it my ack.
<ScottK> ;-)
 * norsetto <- lunch
 * persia seeks motu-release ACK for a fix for bug #216557, without which prime cannot be installed.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 216557 in ubuntu "HAL daemon eats 100 percent CPU (hardy)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/216557
<ScottK> dholbach: Would you be willing to look at sponsoring Bug 220385 - It'd solve some significant security concerns.  I'd do it, but I'm completely unfamiliar with pulling stuff from bzr to sponsor.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 220385 in envyng-core "envy needs to pull drivers from multiverse, not PPA" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/220385
<ScottK> persia: Looking
<sistpoty|work> hi folks
<persia> ScottK: Thanks.
<ScottK> Hi sistpoty|work.
<sistpoty|work> hi ScottK
<dholbach> ScottK: I'll look into it - there's currently some discussion going on between mvo, BenC and Alberto on how to fix it right - but I can sponsor - no problem
<ScottK> persia: What package are you fixing and where's the patch?
<ScottK> dholbach: Thanks.
<dholbach> de rien
<persia> ScottK: package prime.  patch by Ikuya Awashiro.  I'm just planning to sponsor (and maybe clean a bit).
<ScottK> dholbach: I marked it approved by motu-release, so go ahead when you have the right fix.
<ScottK> persia: I don't see any patch in that bug.
<dholbach> ScottK: thanks
<laga> i believe it's the wrong bug number
<ScottK> persia: Is that the right bug #?
<persia> Err.  Oops :)  bug #216577
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 216577 in prime "wrong dependency" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/216577
<ScottK> Looking again.
<persia> Note that it should be ruby (=> 4.1) rather than ruby (=4.1), but that's minor :)
<persia> (and I'll fix it before upload)
<ScottK> persia: Great.  Approved.
<persia> ScottK: Thanks.
<norsetto> heya sistpoty|work
<sistpoty|work> hi norsetto
<norsetto> dholbach: heya master
<dholbach> hi norsetto, hi sistpoty|work
<norsetto> scottk: heya master
<sistpoty|work> hi dholbach
<ScottK> Heya norsetto.
<ScottK> norsetto: You might want to look at the mailscanner FFe.  doko requests it approved and I agree with his reasons, but can't quite bring myself to approve it myself.
<norsetto> ARE WE ALL READY FOR A KICK ASS RELEASE?
<norsetto> scottk: yes, I saw that, let me check it
<ScottK> Is the rbase thing done?
<norsetto> scottk: almost, as soon as r-cran-farma is in the repo I will upload the last remaining package
<ScottK> Great.  Then yes.
<norsetto> scottk: did you see anything from stani? He wanted to have a last patch uploaded.
<stani> norsetto, ScottK: I am working on it.
<ScottK> Last I heard from him was on phatch and that one is uploaded.
<ScottK> Ah
<stani> It is a patch for phatch
<ScottK> Another one then.
<ScottK> Are you going to want to upload a fix for the pydoc crash in spe?
<stani> yes, there is a bug which makes droplet functionality broken
<stani> ScottK: I guess that the bug is not really an issue.
<stani> ScottK: pydoc seems to work here
<ScottK> OK.  I wonder why not there, but OK.  Up to you.
<stani> pydoc has the limitation that it needs to import the python source file in order to generate documentation
<stani> so I guess something is wrong in his source file
<stani> I've checked pydoc here on a couple of files and it works just fine
<stani> So if you apply pydoc to "import sys;sys.exit()" spe will crash
<slicer> Uhm, are you all horribly busy with the release, or can I ask a question related to Intrepid packaging?
<james_w> anyone for motu-release want to comment on whether we should sync for http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=473707 ?
<ubotu> Debian bug 473707 in approx "approx: Fails to start on upgrade" [Grave,Fixed]
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi all. i'm rebuilding firefox 3 from the hardy repo with some changes. its finishing after ~2 or 3 minutes. is this how it should be? firefox 1.5 took an hour. i do notice that xul is gone, but even so i'm worried Stuff Is Wrong.
<slytherin> slicer: just ask
<sistpoty|work> james_w: have you checked, wether this is present in hardy as well (I only slightly recall that we had some problems with pitti's dbg-sym stuff, which got fixed later)
<sistpoty|work> james_w: if it's there, I guess we should get it in
<sebner> sistpoty|work: heya :)
<sistpoty|work> hi sebner
<ScottK> stani: Your package, your call, but in my book a crash is always a bug, even on bogus input.
<sebner> ScottK: hi, now. what about mailscanner? I don't have any personal interest in it but if you wish I can update the bug report for the new version to sync
<ScottK> Kamping_Kaiser: That's not a Universe package, so it's a bit OT here.
<stani> ScottK: I agree, but it is then a bug in pydoc, which is a plugin for spe
<slicer> Intrepeid (like Hardy) has a broken XEvie support (the X extension to look at global input). XEvie seems to be discontinued and noone is maintaining it. As such, my application has a fallback to use raw /dev/input/event* access. Of course, these device nodes are root only, meaning normal users can't use them. I've created a HAL policy file which is kind of a hack, but gives console users access to raw console input devices. The question is; what's the corre
<Lamego> Kamping_Kaiser, there is nothing like checking the building log :)
<stani> ScottK: that is why I need his source file. Right now I am not able to reproduce it, so I can't fix it.
<ScottK> stani: Reasonable.  But I'll push back that spe should survive plugins crashing, so it's got layers.
<ScottK> Understand.
<Kamping_Kaiser> ScottK, where do suggest i ask? :)
<ScottK> sebner: I'm not going to ack it, but maybe norsetto is interested.
<stani> ScottK: Well, in that case I have to try to call pydoc from a subprocess, but that patch requires some work and is too heavy for hardy.
<ScottK> Kamping_Kaiser: I think mozillateam has an IRC channel.
<Kamping_Kaiser> ScottK, thanks, i'll have a look
<ScottK> stani: Quite reasonable to wait then.
<sebner> sistpoty|work: what about you and mailscanner? Just saw the latest comments ...
<Kamping_Kaiser> Lamego, nothing like confirming with a human ;)
<sistpoty|work> sebner: yes, please update it... will need a 2nd ACK from motu-release though
<sebner> sistpoty|work: I know. just don't want to do some work and in the end it doesn't get approved ..
<Lamego> a human versus a log to check a build status :P ?
<norsetto> sebner, scottk: I'm not particularly thrilled to ack bug 204546, especially in light of dbts 472489
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 204546 in mailscanner "[FFe] Please sync mailscanner 4.66.5-2 from Debian(Unstable)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/204546
<norsetto> sebner, scottk: but if sebner can do a dapper->hardy upgrade test, I'm happy
<sebner> heya RainCT
<sebner> norsetto: of course I would change it to 4.68.8-1. Hmm I don't have a dapper machine around me :\
<norsetto> sebner: just install the dapper package
<ScottK> sebner: Bulding the Dapper version for Hardy, installing it, and upgrading should do it.
<sebner> ah =) =) =)
<sebner> ScottK: hmm. We should use the new version. I can't uninstall the old one ^^
<norsetto> sebner: yes, thats bug 215932
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 215932 in mailscanner "package mailscanner 4.58.9-2ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/215932
<ScottK> sebner: So the question would be can get do some magic in the new package to get the old one uninstalled right.
<sebner> ScottK: hmm. Fix broken non-standard conform init-script, which caused upgrade problems
<sebner>      invoke-rc.d requires initscripts to return 0 if the daemon was already
<sebner>      stopped
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: Any ideas how we could work around that ^^^
 * persia points at http://women.debian.org/wiki/English/MaintainerScripts for decoding what arguments to use to get hints about how to uninstall things orrectly for upgrade
<ScottK> sebner: ^^^ There you go.  Have fun.
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: not right now... but iirc dpkg allows error unwinding with parts of the new package (imo described in debian-policy somewhere)
<sebner> ScottK: <sebner> ScottK: hi, now. what about mailscanner? I don't have any personal interest in it   ;)
<stani> ScottK: concerning spe I just released spe 0.8.4.g which fixes some packaging issues (partly feedback from fedora packagers)
<stani> ScottK: but for me I don't think it needs to be updated in Hardy
<sebner> ScottK: also a lack of time since this is my last important school week =)
<ScottK> stani: If it's not fixing substantial issues known in Hardy, I think we need to leave it.
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: so it would imo be s.th. to ignore errors from the init script in the new postrm probably, which should do the trick (no guarantee, as I wrote, I don't know the order/arguments called of maintainer scripts by heart)
<stani> ScottK: indeed
<ScottK> sebner: OK, but this would be a very good learning experience on your road to MOTU.
<ScottK> sebner: As sistpoty|work says you can do it in postrm.  If the old package postrm fails, dpkg will try the one provided by the new package.
<sebner> ScottK: yeah I know but it seems that it need somehow a lot of time and also fast since release is in 2 days
<ScottK> I bet you have it in less than an hour.
<norsetto> finally, we got rid of r-base ....
<sebner> ScottK: seems to be a SRU for all supported versions? I have no clue at all what I should do now :(
<ScottK> If it's already fixed via SRU then it's no worry.
<ScottK> norsetto: ^^^
<norsetto> yeah, yeah
<sebner> ScottK: no single package is fixed -.-
<ScottK> Ah.
 * ScottK doesn't have time to look into it.  I do think you can deal with it in prerm if needed.
<sebner> ScottK: prerm, postrm. what now?
<sistpoty|work> sebner: which maintainer script fails for you?
<ScottK> IIRC it's prerm that stops the old service, but I really don't have any brain power at all to stick on this at the moment.
<sebner> sistpoty|work: subprocess pre-removal script returned error exit status 1
<sebner>  ,   subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 1
<sistpoty|work> sebner: ok... so let's look at debian policy, 6.6
<sistpoty|work> sebner: if the prerm of the old package failed, the prerm of the new version is called with the argument "failed-upgrade"
<afflux> morning sebner *g*
<sebner> afflux: your words are always wrong xD
<afflux> sorry, school just finished so the day starts now :)
<sebner> sistpoty|work: I see but is there any example file etc. since if have no idea how the syntax is ,...
<sistpoty|work> sebner: if you look further down, the same will happen, if the old postrm fails (new postrm is called with "failed-upgrade" as argument)
<sebner> afflux: ^^
<sistpoty|work> sebner: well, these are just shell scripts... try building the new package, and look at the prerm/postrm script of it to get an example
<sistpoty|work> (actually it can also be e.g. perl scripts... anything that's supported by essential: yes packages, but usually it's shell scripts)
<stani> ScottK: could you ack Bug #220630? I have the fix ready, but will now make a debdiff to speed up the process.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 220630 in phatch "droplet functionality is broken" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/220630
<ScottK> stani: Looking.  Please stop marking phatch bugs as "High".  Importance is for the distro.  It's virtually impossible for any Universe package to merit High.
<afflux> ScottK: as I see it, the project's task is "high", the distro's task is "undecided"
<ScottK> Reasonable.  I missed it wasn't the Ubuntu task.
<RainCT> Hi sebner
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: Now that pitti has tested, would you please ack Bug #205179
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 205179 in postgis "postgresql-8.3-postgis not included in Hardy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/205179
<afflux> however, it would be useful if ubotu would prefer displaying the ubuntu task ;)
<stani> ScottK: ok, otherwise I don't understand why projects have high if they never can use it
<ScottK> stani: As afflux pointed out, I didn't notice that was the project task and not the Ubuntu task.
<ScottK> Nevermind.
<stani> no problem
<ScottK> Launchpad gets very confusing from my perspective when upstream is also on Launchpad.
<RainCT> ScottK: fyi, dunno if you saw it yesterday but someone mentioned a application for archive rebuilds (rebuildd, it's in the repository)
<stani> or is this in the ubotu algorithm?
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: ACK'd
<ScottK> stani: I'd like to see the debdiff before I ack it.
<stani> ok, no problem
<stani> it will be very obvious
<norsetto> is anyone looking at the zillion bugs deluge-torrent is producing?
 * norsetto wonders if actually deluge was referring to the number of crashes
<stani> ScottK: debdiff is attached to launchpad
<stani> ScottK: tell me if you need feedback
<james_w> sistpoty|work: sorry, got kicked off t'internet.
<james_w> I don't seem to be able to reproduce, so I guess we can leave it.
<stani> If I add a debdiff to a launchpad bug, should I change the status to "Fix Committed" or is that reserved for when the phatch is uploaded?
<stani> sorry patch, not phatch
<Iulian> stani: Have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Status
<stani> lulian: thanks, everything is clear now
<sistpoty|work> james_w: great... thanks!
<Iulian> stani: Great
<sebner> sistpoty|work: I still have no idea what and how to write the necessary things in postrm and prerm :(
<nxvl> when are going to be the final iso's availeble?
<persia> nxvl: Likely late on the 24th in UTC+8.
<Amaranth> tseliot: did you know envy installing fglrx in gutsy breaks upgrades to hardy? seems you add a diversion on /etc/xdg/compiz/compiz-manager and never clean it up
<stani> ScottK: are you around?
<tseliot> ï»¿Amaranth: let me check
<Hobbsee> Amaranth: <sigh>
<Hobbsee> bah.  i won't say anything.
<tseliot> Hobbsee: that's the old Envy
<Hobbsee> ah, right.
<Hobbsee> so then i'll revise my complaint, but still won't say anything.
<stani> Can someone look at the debdiff I proposed in Bug #220630 and if he agrees ack and upload the fix?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 220630 in phatch "droplet functionality is broken" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/220630
<kees> can someone from motu-release review (and hopefully ACK) bug 213143?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 213143 in snort "snort: failed to install: post-installation script killed by signal (Interrupt)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/213143
<tseliot> ï»¿Amaranth: I can't find (or remember about) such diversion in Envy Legacy. Can I see a bugreport about this?
<Amaranth> launchpad makes it hard to find, searching
<Amaranth> tseliot: bug 215140
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 215140 in compiz "compiz wrapper script references /usr/local" [Low,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/215140
<Amaranth> tseliot: I know you did something to modify compiz to work with fglrx in gutsy
<ScottK> stani: I'm back.
<stani> ScottK: OK, I didn't know
<Amaranth> btw, pretty sad, i gave up on launchpad and searched in gmail for that
<stani> everything is ready
<Amaranth> launchpad gave me two pages of worthless results, gmail gave me the right answer right away first result
<ScottK> stani: Acked.
<stani> ScottK: thanks
<tseliot> Amaranth: I made sure that the ATI installer couldn't overwrite compiz. Then Envy Legacy would make a backup of /usr/bin/compiz to /usr/bin/compiz.envy and restore it when the user decided to uninstall the driver.
<ScottK> stani: You'll need to get someone else to sponsor it.
<Amaranth> tseliot: So there is yet _another_ driver installer that is doing this?
<tseliot> ï»¿Amaranth: the file which envy legacy used had only a longer whitelist for the fglrx driver
<tseliot> ï»¿Amaranth: ???
<Amaranth> Anyone know of any other things like envy that could have broken at least a dozen users systems?
<stani> ScottK: I subscribed it u-u-s. I am a bit suspicious that it shows the priority and status of Phatch upstream.
<ScottK> It should be fine.
<Amaranth> tseliot: If envy didn't setup the diversion then someone else has a project like envy
<stani> ScottK: ok
<Amaranth> And I like their way of handling this better, they just didn't clean up afterwards properly
<tseliot> Amaranth: I know who did it
<tseliot> Amaranth: here's a line from the ATI installer: dh_install -p$(PKG_driver) "debian/compiz-manager"   "etc/xdg/compiz"
<stani> Can anyone sponsor the debdiff in Bug #220630 (it has just been acked)?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 220630 in phatch "droplet functionality is broken" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/220630
<tseliot> ï»¿Amaranth: I think that the user in the bug report had tried different ways to install the driver. Envy was just one of them.
<Amaranth> tseliot: you mean upstream AMD is screwing me?
<simple> My normal "./configure && make" works fine. Does anyone know why my dpkg-buildpackage (8.04 i386) errors out with this: configure: error: C compiler cannot create exectutable
<norsetto> simple: no
<tseliot> ï»¿Amaranth: I'm not saying that. Just download the installer, extract it and have a look at this file: packages/Ubuntu/dists/gutsy/rules
<Amaranth> tseliot: installer for what?
<tseliot> ï»¿Amaranth: the installer from AMD's website
<Amaranth> so upstream AMD is screwing me
<Amaranth> this is new
<tseliot> mario_limonciell: can you have a look at this problem?
<norsetto> amaranth: amd has screwed us since we bought their cards ....
<mario_limonciell> what problem?
<Lamego> Is anyone looking at bug 210162 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 210162 in gnome-compiz-manager "gnome-compiz-preferences type mismatch warning" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/210162
<tseliot> mario_limonciell: Amaranth says that there's a problem with ï»¿a diversion on /etc/xdg/compiz/compiz-manager
<mario_limonciell> that's no longer in place on hardy?
<Amaranth> seems the diversion is not cleaned up
<kees> ScottK: if you have a moment, can you review bug 213143?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 213143 in snort "snort: failed to install: post-installation script killed by signal (Interrupt)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/213143
<Amaranth> but this isn't an ubuntu problem
<mario_limonciell> Amaranth, can you pastebin what you are referring to?
<Amaranth> this is an "I hate AMD" problem
<ScottK> kees: Sure
<mario_limonciell> Amaranth, that was added in originally because gutsy didn't have fglrx in the white list
<kees> ScottK: thanks :)
<Amaranth> mario_limonciell: I'm sure
<Amaranth> Someone wanted to show off how non-crappy the driver was but screwed up the packaging
<saivann> tkamppeter : Thanks
<Amaranth> And now this is causing me grief
<simple> norsetto, would you be willing to look at my results via a pastebin?
<mario_limonciell> shrug.
<mario_limonciell> Amaranth, at some point this last few months i've taken over it, but no one has reported any issues re it?
<Amaranth> It only happens on upgrade to hardy
<Amaranth> Or if you uninstall the driver, I suppose
<mario_limonciell> oh, probably why no one would have reported it then
<mario_limonciell> how bad is the breakage?
<ScottK> kees: Ack'ed
<Amaranth> compiz doesn't work anymore
<simple> or anyone else want to try to help me fix my dpgk-buildpackage problem by seeing my output?
<kees> ScottK: cool; I've sub'd ubuntu-archive now.
<ScottK> Great.
<mario_limonciell> Amaranth, well if can hold out until later this evening when I return home from work, i'll be glad to help you through sorting the problem out (and then getting the appropriate fix in place)
<Amaranth> mario_limonciell: I don't own an ATI video card
<mario_limonciell> Amaranth, oh
<mario_limonciell> well are you representing someone with a problem then?
<Amaranth> Well, I do, but it is sitting in a box and will stay there until the radeon driver supports it
<Amaranth> mario_limonciell: I'm the compiz guy :P
<mario_limonciell> ah :)
<simple> should i be asking my questions somewhere else?
<mario_limonciell> well then there have been some reports of folks with the AMD driver upgrading and running into issues i take it?
<Amaranth> mario_limonciell: yeah
<mario_limonciell> Amaranth, would you mind subscribing me to a more informative one of them then and i'll take a glance sometime later tonight?
<Amaranth> mario_limonciell: I knew envy did something like this, didn't think upstream would do something so hacky
<persia> simple: This is likely the right place, although people are very busy preparing for release.  You might paste a buildlog in a pastebin, as this is typically a good source of information about the problem.
<mario_limonciell> Amaranth, well it was either touch things in /etc that aren't owned, or divert
<simple> patebin: http://pastebin.com/d7c0f85a8
<mario_limonciell> so this was the lesser of two evils
<Amaranth> mario_limonciell: there really is no more information, I closed most of them as "you broke your system, that file is supposed to exist"
<Amaranth> mario_limonciell: Neither should have been done, this is not either or
<geser> simple: can you also paste your debian/rules?
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: I've been coordinating with Riddell and slangasek in #ubuntu-release to let them know which uploads/sync's we've approved and are ready to be processed.  I'll be out for several hours.  If you could take that up while I'm gone, I'd appreciate it.
<james_w> simple: cc1: error: unrecognized command line option "-fno-unit-at-a-time""
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: sorry, I'm almost on my way home... so I'm only back in maybe 1.5 hours or so
<tseliot> Amaranth: we need to communicate more with upstream. Maybe we can talk at the UDS about this.
<simple> the only thing i've done to that debian/rules is take out '--enable-threads'  - that package is the result of 'apt-get source tcl8.5'
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: One of us can just catch up then when we get back.
<Amaranth> tseliot: That will be an easy discussion: Stop messing with my stuff.
<Amaranth> :)
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: ok :)
<simple> james_w, am i missing some sort of gcc package or somethig?
<mario_limonciell> Amaranth, what would you have proposed as a better solution to folks who install a driver and expect compiz to work?
<Amaranth> mario_limonciell: Nothing
<james_w> simple: actually: #
<james_w> configure:1788: i486-linux-gnu-gcc "-g -O2 -fno-unit-at-a-time"  -Wl,-Bsymbolic-functions conftest.c  >&5
<geser> simple: it's a bad quoting of CFLAGS in debian/rules
<tseliot> Amaranth: no, seriously. Working with them is better than having to work around them.
<james_w> it looks to me like "-g -02 etc. shouldn't be quoted
<james_w> as geser says
<simple> geser: debian/rules: http://pastebin.com/d5b04ec5c
<stani> whois Amaranth
<nxvl> persia: and why is iso.qa closed?
<simple> erm, that's the rules that came in the source package.. it's broken there?
<Amaranth> mario_limonciell: If it would have been done correctly I probably would have complimented the ingenuity but...
 * sistpoty|work heads home... later
<persia> nxvl: I'm entirely the wrong person to ask about that :)
<persia> simple: Drop the quotes: make doesn't interpolate
<geser> simple: remove in line 16, 21 and 23 the " and add them to line 57
<Amaranth> It seems envy actually had a better solution
<simple> well, someone needs to do that for the original package upstream too then
<geser> simple: line 57 should be: $(MAKE) CFLAGS="$(CFLAGS)"
<persia> geser: Why are they required in line 57?  Does the shell need it to be passed as a single argument?
<Amaranth> stani: is that a question or did you miss a /? :)
<mario_limonciell> Amaranth, well sorry that something went wrong in the clean up.  If something like this in the future needs to be done, we'll talk to you before doing it
<stani> Amaranth: I missed the /
<tseliot> Amaranth: Envy is a different beast. They did what they could. And again I'm convinced that better communication with upstream would be good.
<Amaranth> mario_limonciell: In this case coming to me and saying "old drivers won't make it through the rest of your checks and we want people to be able to use new drivers" would probably have convinced me to add fglrx to the whitelist to prepare for such things
 * simple builds...
<Amaranth> Of course then if the old drivers crashed while doing the checks I would have been pretty mad too :)
<geser> persia: wouldn't make CFLAGS=-g -O2 -fno-unit-at-a-time be inteprated as CFLAGS=-g and -02 and -fno-unit-at-a-time as parameters to make (make targets)?
<mario_limonciell> Amaranth, this was before i took over the packaging
<Amaranth> Crashes while doing the checks are the reason we have the whitelist, btw
 * norsetto -> away
<persia> geser: Hmmm.  Maybe make options, but not make targets.  I'm not sure if GNU make actually looks for options after the targets, but right, the shell needs the quotes to force them into the CFLAGS variable.  Thanks for the explanation.
<simple> well, someone needs to put that on a 'to-do' list somewhere, to fix the source package of tcl8.5 then
<simple> i thought i was going crazy, it worked fine in debian, but not ubuntu =/
<geser> persia: that's how I fixed such bugs when I saw them
<geser> simple: please file a bug with a patch
<simple> i have no idea how to do that
<persia> simple: The toolchains don't exactly match right now, and we've had a fair number of issues like that.  If you'd be willing to file a bug with a patch, it might even be able to get uploaded before release.
<simple> erm, the build failed
<simple> oh wait, it passed
<simple> error on signing
<simple> i dont know how to make a patch, and i dont know where your buzilla or whatnot is
<simple> this is all i did: remove in line 16, 21 and 23 the " and add them to line 57
<persia> Anyone from motu-release want to ACK simple's change?  I'll upload a quick rev for it if we want tcl8.5 to build :)
<ScottK> persia: What bug?
<persia> ScottK: No bug.  Just misquoted CFLAGS in debian/rules.  Do you need a bug to ACK?
<simple> for eggdrop to run against tcl, '--enable-threads' cannot be there
<ScottK> persia: No.  Ack.  Please mark it in the bug when there is one.
<persia> simple: bug tracker is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs/
<simple> so i've just built it without threads
<persia> ScottK: I wasn't going to make one, but I'll do so if you need it :(
<ScottK> No.  I guess not.
<persia> ScottK: Thanks :)
<stani> persia: do you have time to sponsor the debdiff on Bug #220630?
<persia> stani: I suppose so
<phoenix24> Hi all.
<phoenix24> What is the difference between a loopback device and a device-mapper ?
 * persia plans to return to senescence after sponsoring that, at least for the next many hours
<persia> phoenix24: loopback is a file.  device-mapper is lots of things: often LVM or fakeraid or something.
<simple> thanks for all your help people =)
<stani> persia: great, thanks. I and Erich (other phatch contributor) have verified that the fix works.
<simple> i really appreciate it
<stani> persia: here is the url (ubuto did not seem to parse it): https://bugs.launchpad.net/phatch/+bug/220630
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 220630 in phatch "droplet functionality is broken" [High,In progress]
<persia> stani: It was the '?' :)  Thanks.
<stani> persia: ok, good to know ;-)
<stani> persia: thanks for sponsoring it
<aquo> hi, is there some channel for the RC?
<Pici> aquo: You mean for support?
<imbrandon> #ubuntu+1
<sistpoty> re
<zul> whoa hey imbrandon
<aquo> Pici: for talking about some things i consider bugs.
<Pici> aquo: Probably #ubuntu+1 is the best place to start
<aquo> Pici: ok, nobody seems to care about the problems
<imbrandon> heya zul :)
<aquo> i tried the RC with qemu with hardy and it doesn't boot correctly.
<aquo> aehm, no with gutsy ...
<aquo> anyway
<aquo> nobody seems to care.
<blairzajac> Is REVU taking submissions?  I uploaded libfile-fnmatch-perl yesterday evening PST and dput says it worked but I don't see it on the revu site
<sistpoty> blairzajac: it's sitting in the rejected queue right now... I'll run a keyring sync and put it back
<blairzajac> sistpoty: great, thanks
<handschuh> anybody here to answer a question?
<RainCT> handschuh: yes, just ask
<handschuh> ok, great
<handschuh> i do have a java application and a deb-package and now I want to 'include' it into ubuntu repos
<handschuh> since java is only 'half-binary' do I have to build an extra source-package?
<RainCT> Java... you'll have to wait for someone else to answer :)
<handschuh> ok ... then I will ask again later, thanks anyway!
<norsetto> handschuh: what do you mean? You have a package with a java application in it or what?
<handschuh> thats correct
<norsetto> handschuh: ok, then the right place is revu
<norsetto> !revu
<ubotu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<handschuh> i know i know, but revu wants a source-package
<norsetto> handschuh: of course
<handschuh> so the java sources and not the java-classfiles I guess
<handschuh> (just wanted to be sure)
<norsetto> handschuh: yes, classfiles needs to be built during build
<laga> java class files are binary, so i guess you need a real source package
<handschuh> ok so I do have to build an extra source-package ... thanks
<norsetto> handschuh: try also this link: http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/java-policy/ it may clarify some of the issues
<handschuh> Oh, wasnt aware about that! So its time to read how to build a source package  ;-)
<blairzajac> is is better/easier to submit a package to debian and ask for a sync to ubuntu or the other way around, especially with the hardy freeze now?
<blairzajac> which organization is it easier to get a package into?
 * RainCT recommends Debian as that way both distributions (and their derivates) will benefy from it
<norsetto> blairzajac: you may find it easier to get your package in ubuntu from debian than the other way around
<blairzajac> norsetto: is that in general or just when freezes are in effect?
<norsetto> blairzajac: freeze is irrelevant
<blairzajac> norsetto: ok, thanks
<sistpoty> persia: around? did your upload of tcl8.5 get approved yet?
<yosch> sistpoty: hi, got a minute for bug 180011?
<sistpoty> yosch... /me looks (damn ubotu, leaves when I need him *g*)
<yosch> sistpoty: thanks, yeah /me was wondering why the bot wasn' answering :)
<mok0> ubotu, you lazy bastard
<yosch> sistpoty: it's about the the ttf-ubuntu-title update
<sistpoty> yosch: did you only add the source files, or also update other things?
<yosch> sistpoty: there are a more changes, it's a new upstream. Basically fixing earlier mistakes with licensing and so on. Also has needed trademark info and new LP hosting
<yosch> https://launchpad.net/ubuntutitle/
<yosch> sistpoty: cjwatson a few days ago was in favour of the exception in principle, he was involved in the conversation about fixing the licensing problems for this font so it can be used by the LoCos and have better community maintainership
<yosch> when we have the updated package in we can merge the various community branches https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntutitle/
<sistpoty> yosch: I'm in favor for the license itself, but I'm just trying to find out about the impact of the changes
<macd> If a package in hardy requires a lib thats not in the hardy repos, what should one do, besides filing a bug
<macd> the package also doesnt have the proper dependencies
<norsetto> macd: what package?
<macd> xchat-xsys, requires libpci.so.2, but that doesnt exist in a hardy package, libpci1 has libpci.so.2
<yosch> sistpoty: got it. I don't think this update introduces problems. norsetto reviewed it earlier and I made the changes he asked with version names.
<macd> err libpci has libpci.so.1
 * norsetto looks
<yosch> sistpoty: do you need a debdiff or the source package uploaded somewhere else?
<norsetto> macd: looks like bug 188990
<sistpoty> yosch: no, I've helped myself already... let me just do a quick testbuild and look at the result, ok?
<norsetto> macd: this package is very very old and outdated
<yosch> sistpoty: great :-)
<sistpoty> norsetto: you reviewed ttf-ubuntu-title already?
<sistpoty> norsetto: and given an ACK yet? or not yet?
<norsetto> sistpoty: I glanced at it, 1 week ago or something
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 188990 in xchat-xsys "xchat-xsys doesn't work in 8.04" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/188990
<norsetto> sistpoty: no, there were a couple of problems, mainly copyright IIRC
<yosch> sistpoty: norsetto gave me good feedback on the versioning and also adding the LP address in copyright for the new upstream
<macd> norsetto, yeah it is old, what action should be taken on it, removing xchat-xsys, or re-building libpci.so.2 into libpci1 (it looks antiquated as well)
<yosch> norsetto: I added a "it was downloaded from" blurb the copyright holder is Canonical and the designer commissioned by Mark is mentioned too
<sistpoty> yosch: is it actually possible to create the .ttf from the .sfd with free tools?
<yosch> sistpoty: I'm working on a fully freely automated build path as part of my contributions with the fonts team (also with the upstream Debian fonts team)
<yosch> but that will be for when we get the various authors of the branches to merge
<Lamego> how can I get the source for  gnome-compiz-manager ? apt-get source states there is no source package for it
<sistpoty> yosch: ok... I assume the .ttf in the tarball is created from the very .sfd that's in the tarball as well?
<norsetto> macd: this can be fixed, but I'm afraid it can be too late
<sistpoty> yosch: one thing that's missing (or at least I didn't see at once) you'll need to add copyright of the packaging to debian/copyright
<macd> norsetto, is it past the cutoff?
<yosch> sistpoty: yes that's the idea but depending on the fontforge version there are some regression that need more time to debug
<macd> norsetto, additionally, Im working ona  bug for xen-utils-3.1/3.2 that have a dependency error
<norsetto> macd: cutoff is tomorrow 8UTC, but by then we have to make sure that the fix is appropriate
<yosch> it was first packaged by ogra, he didn't answer the discussion thread on this...
<sistpoty> yosch: I'm not requesting right now that it needs to be done during package build time, but I just want to make sure that the .sfd and the .ttf match (so that source==binary)
<macd> norsetto, I'll just abandon the xchat one then, and get the xen-utils done, they are just a change to the control file, so that shouldnt be that bad getting approved, right?
<yosch> sistpoty: yes the ttf was made from the .sfd
<sistpoty> :)
<norsetto> macd: dunno, its the current package totally broken?
<sistpoty> yosch: others than that, a few tiny bits (e.g. long description too long), but none which imo need to be fixed during the last minutes now
<macd> norsetto, you cant create a VM using xm create, without it
<sistpoty> yosch: so ACK from me, if you add some bits about the packaging copyright
<macd> Id think that to be fairly important, even though buntu is going the kvm route
<yosch> fontforge's moving fast (which is a good thing) but there are some problems. I'll be at the summit to work with other on the font toolchain
<yosch> sistpoty: great. I'll add that right now. Do you want me to re-upload to REVU?
<sistpoty> yosch: that'd be great
<macd> norsetto, ohh, on the xchat thing would a backport from libpci2 in gutsy ever happen? or is that usually an sru only thing?
<yosch> sistpoty: brilliant :-)
<sistpoty> norsetto: mind to look at ttf-ubuntu-title again? (I'd like to get a second ACK to this)... or maybe ScottK, TheMuso or Hobbsee? (bug #180011)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 180011 in ttf-ubuntu-title "Lack of SFD source file breaks LGPL license and makes file unredistributable!" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/180011
<norsetto> macd: that would not be a backport
<macd> a forwardport ;P
<mok0> macd: did you look at pciutils?
<macd> mok0, yes
<sebner> sistpoty: would you mind helping me with mailscanner and the postrm and prerm thing tomorrow. If have a lack of time :( /me ->> lerning for math test
<mok0> macd: there's a new version in debian experimental
<macd> mok0, ahh let me check upstream
<sistpoty> sebner: I'm not too sure, if the archive is still open for universe tomorrow
<mok0> macd: the text for libpci1 says: "This package contains the old version of the shared library that comes with pciutils. It is just here for compatibility reasons, and will be removed in the future"
<sebner> sistpoty: The universe archive for hardy will be frozen solid at 0800UTC
<sebner> tomorrow (Wednesday 23rd)
<yosch> sistpoty: just to make sur: for packaging copyright for the various packages I maintain on the Debian fonts task force side http://pkg-fonts.alioth.debian.org/ I say "under the same license as the Font Software". What do you think?
<sistpoty> yosch: that's definitely compatible
<yosch> sistpoty: some Debian devels recommend public domain for such packaging.
<macd> norsetto, the xen-utils it linked to bug 174048
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 174048 in xen-3.2 "missing dependency: python-xml" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/174048
<sebner> sistpoty: damn. that's on "vormittag". you know what I mean xD
<sistpoty> yosch: basically, you can license it as anything, as long as it's compatible with upstream's license (though e.g. same license as upstream sounds like a good idea to me)
<sistpoty> sebner: the math test? good luck! (haha, I don't need to do any math ever again :)
<yosch> sistpoty: yeah since Canonical has decided for a dual GPLv2 + font exception / OFL license I don't want to introduce something that could confuse people who may want to contribute to packaging
<yosch> sistpoty: I'll license to the Ubuntu fonts team under the same licenses as the Font Software. Sounds like the best solution.
<sebner> sistpoty: yeah. math test is tomorrow. but I mean the archive is open until 08:00 what means "vormittag" and so I can't work on mailscanner :(
<sistpoty> sebner: well, we can't fix all bugs... otherwise we wouldn't needs SRU's ;)
<sistpoty> maybe s.o. else would like to jump in?
<sebner> sistpoty: and don't be too "schadenfroh" (my english sucks xD). This is also my *last* math test. besides "abitur" but that doesn't count ^^
<sistpoty> heh
 * sistpoty is afk now, grabbing a bite to eat
<sebner> hf siretart
<sebner> hf sistpoty -.-
<sistpoty> thanks
<yosch> sistpoty: preparing the package, enjoy your meal :-)
<norsetto> macd: we can fix xchat-xsys, we only need one ack from motu-release (sistpoty?)
<_MMA_> So Warsow .42 _finally_ looks like it hit Debian (http://www.mail-archive.com/debian-devel-changes@lists.debian.org/msg212588.html) what can be done to get it in Hardy? Wait for Intrepid and backport?
<sistpoty> norsetto: looks like a good idea... unless zul has objections
<sistpoty> but know I'm really afk :P
<zul> hmmm?
<sistpoty> bug #174048
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 174048 in xen-3.2 "missing dependency: python-xml" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/174048
<sistpoty> ^ zul
<macd> I'm doing debdiff for xenutils 3.1/3.2 right now that fix it
<norsetto> sistpoty: I was talking about the other one, bug 188990, but thanks anyway ;-)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 188990 in xchat-xsys "xchat-xsys doesn't work in 8.04" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/188990
<sistpoty> norsetto: heh
<sistpoty> norsetto: ACK'd
<norsetto> sistpoty: danke :-)
<sistpoty> np
<sistpoty> so, next try to get up and make a meal *g*
<norsetto> sistpoty: malzeit (or however you spell it ...)
<ScottK> sistpoty: The Debian maintainer of Krusader has asked to have it sync'ed it's a mix of bug fix and minor new features (1.8 -> 1.9).  I've built it and installed it. I seems to work well and works for some stuff we have bugs on.
<ScottK> sistpoty: Looking at ttf-ubuntu-title
<yosch> ScottK: thanks :-)
<yosch> ScottK: just uploaded the version with fixes recommended by sistpoty
<ScottK> yosch: To REVU or where?
<yosch> ScottK: yep REVU
<ScottK> yosch: A link to the package please after you see it's updated.
<norsetto> scottk: is it still a good idea to ask the archive about bug 188990 or a fakesync is better?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 188990 in xchat-xsys "xchat-xsys doesn't work in 8.04" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/188990
<ScottK> norsetto: They can sync it.
<norsetto> scottk: okki
<ScottK> norsetto: Just asked.
<yosch> ScottK: sure, I'm waiting for REVU to do its thing :-)
<yosch> ScottK: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=ttf-ubuntu-title
<ScottK> Looking
<yosch> ScottK: thanks
<ScottK> sistpoty: Any thoughts on Krusader?
<ScottK> Riddell thougt it OK.
<sistpoty> ScottK: not really... if it still works, I'm happy to give an ACK, unless Riddell has objections
<yosch> ScottK: btw, when you have a minute could you tell me what you think we should do for Bug 190861? thanks
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 190861 in ttf-sil-scheherazade "Please sync ttf-sil-scheherazade 1.001-2  (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/190861
<ScottK> yosch: I'd leave it.  There's nothing significant that's different between what Ubuntu has and the new revision.
<yosch> ScottK: OK, got it. no problems.
<ScottK> They only added Panjabi in Debian because I pushed them on it.
<ScottK> It's been in the Ubuntu package since it was initially uploaded.
<yosch> ScottK: yep, must investigate some more with the Debian defoma maintainer about the Location stanza.
<yosch> ScottK: will get in touch with mderakhs for the new dev cycle: invite him to join the font teams.
<ScottK> sistpoty: For ttf-ubuntu-title, should the Trademark information be mentioned in debian/copyright?  I've never seen a package that had that before.
<macd> norsetto, on bug 188990, I attached debdiffs for i386/amd64, so if someone could ack them
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 188990 in xchat-xsys "xchat-xsys doesn't work in 8.04" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/188990
<macd> err bug 174048
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 174048 in xen-3.2 "missing dependency: python-xml" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/174048
<norsetto> macd: have you subscribed motu-release?
 * macd will now
<sistpoty> ScottK: it's good practice to put it in there, but imo no requirement (as - as far as I understood it, is not part of the license, but rather regards the ubuntu name)
<yosch> ScottK, sistpoty: yes this clarification is needed since it's the Ubuntu trademark. Better be explicit than rely on everyone knowing how copyright and trademark work
<yosch> there are other fonts who have this
<ScottK> macd: They need source debdiffs, not binary.
<macd> ScottK, even for a control file change only?
<ScottK> Yes because source is what we upload.
<macd> kees, I'll do that
<yosch> this clarification information (validated by sabdfl) is also in the font metadata
<macd> autocomplete :(
<bimberi> kirkland: /win 11
<ScottK> Also the path for the python-xml modules has been changed, so that probably needs an update too.
<bimberi> argh, sorry
<afflux> anyone for sponsoring bug 158670?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 158670 in quodlibet "Quod Libet uses wrong playback device in Sound Preferences" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/158670
<ScottK> yosch: I'm familiar with the Ubuntu Trademark policy, just not sure how best to deal with it given packaging policy.
<yosch> and I'm working on getting the font viewers to show more metadata about fonts so people know their freedom when previewing fonts
<yosch> ScottK: OK
<yosch> ScottK: the paragraph about this in debian/control is as short as I could make it.
<ScottK> yosch and sistpoty: I've asked for clarification from the archive-admins.  I'll wait to see what they say.
<yosch> ScottK: thanks. looking at the -devel chan for an answer...
<norsetto> macd: sorry, I asked you something wrong, that package is in main, there is nothing motu-release can do about it
<macd> norsetto, k.
<norsetto> macd: you last bet is to convince zul about it
<macd> zul= chuck?
<norsetto> macd: yes
<macd> norsetto, ty, I'll just prep source diffs, and upload them and pester him :)
<ScottK> yosch: You saw the answer on devel?
<yosch> ScottK: yes just saw it
<ScottK> Get that whipped up and we're good to go.
<yosch> the current package has no mention in debian/copyright, the Trademarks-readme.txt is put in /usr/share/doc/ttf-ubuntu-title
<ScottK> That's fine then.  It also needs a -0ubuntu1 revision number.
<ScottK> I can fix that though if that's the only change.
<yosch> and the paragraph about it in debian/control is just a summary and a reference to the guidelines in the package, so I guess this bit is good.
<yosch> ScottK: oh, I reverted that because of the warning about XSBC-original maintainer.
<yosch> I guess we have an interesting situation here: Ubuntu is upstream and Debian will sync it later on...
<ScottK> The Launchpad project is the upstream though, not the Ubuntu archive.
<yosch> ScottK: yes true :-)
<ScottK> sistpoty: What say you about Bug #218500
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 218500 in libibverbs "Ubuntu is missing /dev/infiniband/uverbs* group ownership udev rule" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/218500
<yosch> ScottK: I can do the version change if you prefer to focus on something else :-)
<ScottK> It'll take me as long to fix it as re-download it, so no problem.
<yosch> ScottK: OK great.
<ScottK> yosch: Why is Ubuntu Core Developers set as maintainer when it's a Universe package?
<yosch> ScottK: oops you're right, I think in the emails discussion it was somehow intended to be promoted to main. But yeah we're not there yet. My mistake.
<ScottK> I'll get that too.
<yosch> ScottK: can you take care of changing that too, please?
<yosch> ScottK: thanks again
<sistpoty> ScottK: ugh... I have no clue about udev actually.
<sistpoty> ScottK: but since it's from the debian maintainer, I guess we should get the fix for bug #218500 in
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 218500 in libibverbs "Ubuntu is missing /dev/infiniband/uverbs* group ownership udev rule" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/218500
<ScottK> sistpoty: Would you please ack it then.
<sistpoty> ScottK: done
 * mok0 is bored... looking for something useful to do...
<laga> write documentation for me
<ScottK> mok0: How about sponsoring the fix in Bug #218500
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 218500 in libibverbs "Ubuntu is missing /dev/infiniband/uverbs* group ownership udev rule" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/218500
 * mok0 looks
<mok0> ScottK: I'll do it right away
<ScottK> Thanks.
<ScottK> sistpoty: What are your thoughts on the copyright fixes for all Til's PPD packages?
<eike_> hey all, what is the distribution target for new uploads to revu? intrepid or ibex?
<ScottK> intrepid
<eike_> ScottK: thanks! so the adjective will be used consistently...
<sistpoty> ScottK: no need to get them in for hardy, as the text itself refers to GPL (though it started with "This library..", which is where I thought it's the LGPL boilerplate)
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> sistpoty: Would you please mark an ack in Bug #220777
<ScottK> The bot timed out ... urgh.
<sistpoty> heh, seems ubotu doesn't like the motu-release... it did it for me earlier ago *g*
<sistpoty> ScottK: done
<ScottK> Thanks.
 * sistpoty ponders with bug #194256... ScottK: does your ack still stand for this? at least we now know that the current version is broken, so I'm inclined to get the new one synced
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 194256 in kmyfirewall "[FFe request] Please sync kmyfirewall 1.1.1-1 from Debian unstable (main)" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/194256
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> sistpoty: That's a sync, not a merge, right?
<sistpoty> ScottK: yes, I've just subscribed ubuntu archive and will call for them ;)
<ScottK> OK
<mok0> ScottK: There's a whole bunch of lintian messages from the binary packages; mainly complaints of non-compressed manpages. Should I fix those?
<ScottK> No.
<mok0> ok
<ScottK> yosch: Accepted into the archive.  Thank you for your contribution to Ubuntu.
<sistpoty> ScottK: regarding dbconfig-common, actually Daniel wrote "Apart from that, I've tested installing and purging postfix-policyd, which worked fine.
<ScottK> OK.
<yosch> ScottK: just saw the build logs, And thanks to you for your help :-)
<ScottK> sistpoty: I'll go look at that again.  Would you please look at Bug #110613
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 110613 in svn-buildpackage "patch: empty files in files list, add missing "-p" to mkdir" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/110613
<sistpoty> meh, I thought I could avoid that bug *g*
<yosch> and to sistpoty and norsetto too, cheers guys.
<sistpoty> thanks to you, yosch!
<norsetto> yosch: cheers
 * norsetto thinks its time to reset Konversation
<sistpoty> mok0: have you tested svn-buildpackage?
<mok0> sistpoty: no
<sistpoty> mok0: can you test it please?
<mok0> sistpoty: yes, will do
<sistpoty> thanks mok0
<ScottK> sistpoty: Confirmed the db-common one.
<ScottK> blueyed: ^^^ - Go ahead and upload.
<sistpoty> thanks ScottK
<sistpoty> ScottK: I'll upload bug #220743 (only changes the dependency of libwxsvg-dev to make it installable), if you don't mind
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 220743 in wxsvg "uninstallable because of wrong dependency" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/220743
<ScottK> Looking
<sistpoty> ScottK: I'll paste the real debdiff in a second
<ScottK> sistpoty: Just upload it.  It's just a bugfix, so you can self ack it.
<sistpoty> ScottK: k
<sistpoty> thanks
<norsetto> sikon: around?
<ScottK> That's the main reason to be on motu-release ....
<norsetto> sistpoty, ScottK: about bug 220743 seems like we screwed up with wxsvg 1.0b8.1-0.3ubuntu1
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 220743 in wxsvg "uninstallable because of wrong dependency" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/220743
<ScottK> OK
<sistpoty> norsetto: yeah, thanks
<ScottK> mok0: Would you have time to look into https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2008-April/003704.html
<mlind> could a motu-release member take a look of bug #202343 if it still qualifies for Hardy?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 202343 in opensc "mozilla-opensc firefox plugin not visible in FF3 (bad install directory)" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/202343
<ScottK> mlind: Looking
<mlind> ScottK: thanks
<ScottK> mlind:  asac is delegated approver for mozilla related packages, so you just need a sponsor for an upload.
<norsetto> ScottK, sistpoty: is any of you guys working on that? Otherwise I will upload it
<mlind> ScottK: could you perhaps sponsor it?
<asac> ... and someone who guides this through -release team
<ScottK> norsetto: Go for it.
<sistpoty> norsetto: which one? I'm on wxsvg
<ScottK> I'm assuming the opensc one
<norsetto> ScottK, sistpoty: wxsvg
<ScottK> Ah.
<ScottK> norsetto: Could you do the opensc on that mlind was discussing?
<yosch> question: are syncs still allowed?
<yosch> like Bug 220771 for example
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 220771 in ubuntu "sync ttf-lg-aboriginal from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/220771
<yosch> an exception for this font family would allow grow the language support of Ubuntu during the LTS cycle...
<norsetto> scottk: asac approved it, so, what has this to do with motu-release !?
<ScottK> norsetto: Someone needs to sponsor it.
<norsetto> scottk: agreed
<ScottK> I was hoping that somebody would be you.
<norsetto> scottk: I just wonder why asac marked it fix-committed
<ScottK> Dunno.  It's not uploaded.
<ScottK> Fix Committed means different things to different people.
<ScottK> yosch: That would have to go through a New review.  It's really to late for that.
<yosch> ScottK: OK, got it.
<yosch> So it will be synced post-release for Intrepid and then through backports then, right?
<Fujitsu> If you reques that.
<mok0> sistpoty: I've checked svn-buildpackage now; it works
<sistpoty> mok0: ok, great. Thanks!
<sistpoty> mok0: please go ahead with uploading
 * yosch is looking at the backports wiki page
<mok0> sistpoty: ok
<ScottK> mok0: Did you have time to look into https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2008-April/003704.html
<mok0> ScottK: no, I'll check it out right away
<ScottK> Thanks.
 * ScottK needs to run in ~60 seconds.  Would some MOTU please sponsor bug 202343
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 202343 in opensc "mozilla-opensc firefox plugin not visible in FF3 (bad install directory)" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/202343
<ScottK> See you all later.  Not sure if I'll be back before the archive closes.
<sistpoty> cya ScottK
<mok0> ScottK: Yup, the report is correct
<ScottK> mok0: Ack to upload a fix.
<emgent> sistpoty:  I'm working in Bug #216604, it`s possible exception or i should write
<mok0> ScottK: thx
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 216604 in eterm "[CVE-2008-1692] opens on :0 if DISPLAY not set" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/216604
<emgent>                   changelog for hardy-security?
<mario_limonciell> ScottK, i'll sponsor it
<ScottK> mario_limonciell: Great.  Thanks.
<laga> mario_limonciell: mcc? :)
<mok0> ScottK: do we need a bug report for this fix?
<norsetto> bye scottk
<emgent> heya norsetto :D
<norsetto> emgent: hello sir!
<mario_limonciell> laga, yeah i'll do that as soon as i get home
<mario_limonciell> when does archive close today?
<laga> mario_limonciell: great.
<sistpoty> emgent: just because I saw that right now: in debian/changelog, it's correctly spelled "hijack", not "highjack" ;)
<emgent> oops
<mok0> ScottK: I am a member of Debian-med, so I can fix the problem there
<emgent> sistpoty: anyway for hardy?
<sistpoty> emgent: looks good te me for hardy
<emgent> ok cool big thanks sistpoty :)
<sistpoty> emgent: did you take the patch from DBTS? If so I guess it's kind to write who wrote the patch (looks like Nico's) in debian/changelog, but that's also quite irrelevant to the FFe ;)
<emgent> sistpoty: yep i saw that, i builted and tested eterm and work fine. it`s a simple control patch
<emgent> very easy.
 * norsetto heads to bed
<sistpoty> gn8 norsetto
<norsetto> nighty sistpoty
<norsetto> good freeze everybody :-)
<norsetto> exit
<norsetto> ops
<sistpoty> emgent: can you add a debdiff for hardy? (archive is closing in a few hours)
<emgent> yes, just a moment
<emgent> sistpoty: done
 * sistpoty looks
<emgent> indenting just a moment.
<sistpoty> anyone who'd like to sponsors emgent's patch to hardy?
 * jdong looks
<emgent> :)
<jdong> looks good, I'll do it.
<sistpoty> thanks jdong, and thanks emgent
<emgent> thanks to you sistpoty
<mlind> mario_limonciell: thanks for sponsoring the opensc fix
<emgent> i go to fix <=feisty
<mario_limonciell> no prob mlind
<emgent> thanks for all people
<jdong> emgent: uploaded, thanks for your patch :)
<emgent> thanks to you :)
<ScottK> mok0: Just upload it to Ubuntu (and fix in debian-med).  Bug not needed.
<mok0> ScottK: done
<sistpoty> ScottK: do you recall about python-biopython (sitting in the queue)... I'm quite sure it must be in backlog somewhere, but I can't find it right now
<ScottK> That's the one I asked mok0 to upload.
<ScottK> sistpoty:  mok0: Did you have time to look into https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2008-April/003704.html
<sistpoty> ScottK: heh. I guess I'm getting tired *g*
 * ScottK runs off again.
<mok0> sistpoty: yup I fixed that one
<sistpoty> :)
<mok0> sistpoty: another one hits the dust :-)
<mok0> Will there be a recompilation of the archive before release?
<sistpoty> mok0: not that I know of
<sistpoty> zul: is bug #214009 already fixed?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 214009 in iscsitarget "ffe for iscsitarget" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/214009
#ubuntu-motu 2008-04-23
 * sistpoty needs to go to bed now... gn8 everyone
<up_the_irons> hey guys, question about the "runit" package on 7.10.  No /etc/inittab exists on my system, so the install fails b/c runit wants to add an entry to /etc/inittab.  Suggestions?
<up_the_irons> it's left in "iF" state instead of "ii"
<crimsun> check for its existence, create/modify conditionally, etc.
<crimsun> up_the_irons: you probably want to see debian/ in hardy's runit source package.
<up_the_irons> crimsun: if I make an /etc/inittab, how do i "fix" the package?  should I just remove and reinstall?
<crimsun> up_the_irons: sure, you could do that.  Or you could backport hardy's runit source package.
<up_the_irons> crimsun: ok gotcha
<up_the_irons> crimsun: yeah backporting it might be the way to go
<up_the_irons> thanks
<whileimhere> Hi room!
<whileimhere> :) well I am looking for a set of instructions that will guide me with making a .deb file for distribution.  I am not a major programmer so I guess I would be a beginner with this stuff. Can anyone point me in a good direction. Most of the stuff Ihave found is so technical I cant grasp it very well.
<bbyever> whileimhere: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete
<whileimhere> Thanks!
<bbyever> np
<bddebian> Heya gang
<zul> sispoty: yes
 * RAOF wonders what his 'mail organ' is :P
<jdong> RAOF: probably your postfix port ;-)
 * jdong braces for more innuendos
 * ScottK is here if someone is looking for an ack to upload (~6 hours to go).
<jdong> ScottK: I'm available though cautious about what's going to be tagged to my name now :D
<ScottK> jdong: Do you know anything about using bzr?
<jdong> yeah I use it a lot
<ScottK> jdong: Would you be willing to grab the fix in Bug #220385 from bzr and upload it?  dholbach told me he'd take care it, but apparently didn't.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 220385 in envyng-core "envy needs to pull drivers from multiverse, not PPA" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/220385
<ScottK> I really don't want to release with something in the archive that allows non-developers to arbitrarily update end user systems.
<ScottK> Note who filed the bug if you have any doubts about we want it fixed.
<jdong> ScottK: oh I have no doubt we want this fixed
<jdong> lemme take a look at famed revision 45 :)
<ScottK> Thanks (or maybe there's a later one that's better, dunno).
<jdong> ScottK: looks good, uploaded
<ScottK> jdong: Thanks.
<ScottK> jdong: Accepted into the archive.  Thanks for taking care of that.
<jdong> ScottK: sure thing
<ScottK> jdong: Got time for another one?
<jdong> I guess :)
<ScottK> If you look at Bug 220863 there's a patch in the linke sourceforge bug.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 220863 in dkim-milter "dkim-milter rejects validly signed mail" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/220863
<ScottK> I just discovered that the debian/rules don't appear to actually quite apply the patches (even though dpatch is at least partly there).
<ScottK> My brain is totally fried.
<ScottK> I'd greatly appreciate it if you would grab that patch, fix up debian rules, and upload it.
<jdong> ScottK: sure, lemme take a look
<ScottK> Thanks.
 * jdong checks his luck :)
<jdong> applying patch 01-partial-signatures to ./ ... ok.
<jdong> ah, beautiful
<jdong> ScottK: ok, uploaded
<ScottK> jdong: Thanks againg.
<ScottK> again
 * Hobbsee waves
 * jdong waves back
<Hobbsee> sky fallen in yet?
<jdong> Hobbsee: no but I am with a perl book right now :)
<jdong> I think that's close enough
<Hobbsee> haha
<Hobbsee> true
<ScottK> Hobbsee: We ought to be nice to jdong just for this one day.  He pulled the EnvyNG changes out of bzr and uploaded them, so that lowers his crack average some.
<jdong> lol
<Hobbsee> ScottK: oh goody.
<jdong> I am surprised that slipped past REVU though
<Hobbsee> jdong: i'm not.  How many bits have you seen go in by canonical people, or reviewed by canonical people only, that haven't gone thru REVU?
<Hobbsee> and it doesn't help that tehy can't use openID
<jdong> Hobbsee: yeah that is a bit concerning at times
<Hobbsee> jdong: but you can't bring it up - certain canonical people get very annoyed, and keep declaring that there is no difference between canonical people and community people, procedure-wise
<Hobbsee> jdong: so I guess that's here to stay.
 * TheMuso waves, as he performs more iso testing.
<emgent> uhm ubuntu seems vulnerable (by default) to fork bomb
<ScottK> Kewl.
<jdong> emgent: that's not much of a vulnerability.
<emgent> heheh i know
<ScottK> jdong: Accepted.  Thanks again.
<jdong> ScottK: not a problem
<emgent> but i'm thinking to edit /etc/security/limits.conf
<ScottK> jdong: You may get the last two uploads for the release.
<jdong> ScottK: haha is there a trophy for that? :D
<jdong> emgent: if you are a sysadmin on systems prone to forkbombing that is a good idea
<jdong> emgent: but otherwise, messing with limits.conf for all Ubuntu users is not a good idea
<emgent> jdong: i know, grsec by default block it.
<jdong> emgent: an Apache server can have 200 good behaving children, while I guarantee with 4 processes I can make you cry.
<emgent> we can stop this if we add "* hard nproc 200"
<jdong> emgent: you don't think 200 spinning processes can make your life miserable?
<emgent> I only suggest, anyway no problem :)
<jdong> emgent: my point is there really is no sensible default that won't impact some subset of our userbase
<jdong> emgent: by default I think it's entirely reasonable that ubuntu grants whatever resource requirements a user asks for
<jdong> emgent: though for the administrator of a multiuser system, more limits may be appropriate
 * emgent nodes
<ScottK> Anyone around from motu-sru?
<jdong> yeah
<ScottK> Last release (when there was no motu-sru), motu-release stepped up and said the "must be fixed in the devel release" rule was waived until the new repo was up and running.
<ScottK> It seemed to work out well.  I recommend it.
<ScottK> I think that it's up to motu-sru to decide, so I thought I'd mention it.
<ScottK> If you are, I suggest you (motu-sru) make an announcement soonish.
<ScottK> Bug #158670 looks like it could still be sponsored if someone was up for it.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 158670 in quodlibet "Quod Libet uses wrong playback device in Sound Preferences" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/158670
<jdong> ScottK: lemme take a look at that bug :)
<jdong> ScottK: quodlibet debdiff mangled/uploaded
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> hi dholbach
<dholbach> hi ajmitch
<dholbach> hi Hobbsee
<RAOF> 'ello Hobbsee, ajmitch dholbach.
<dholbach> hiya RAOF
<DanikarPN> I am a novice programmer, familar with perl, c, c++. Never really worked on a large project. Is it reasonable to think I can contribute to Ubuntu? I read some of the wiki, but just wondering what someone of my level could do to contribute.
<dholbach> DanikarPN: that's great - you can definitely contribute to Ubuntu! :)
<dholbach> did you read http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted already?
<DanikarPN> Yeah, I read that and some of the articles it links too. Massive amounts of information. lol. Been looking into Ubuntu over the past week or so.
<jdong> OT, is it a bad sign that I'm reading a Perl book and liking the language?
<nixternal> very much so
<jdong> lol
 * dholbach shudders slightly :)
<jdong> I'm already starting to write unreadable 1-liners!
<DanikarPN> haha
<DanikarPN> That is what makes perl fun =P
<jdong> makes it extremely handy for quick and dirty scripts for everyday tasks
<nixternal> .*/a?*!43.&^//:!.*^%!U
<nixternal> what makes that fun to read? :p
<jdong> nixternal: it's a WOL
<nixternal> made that up by just pressing shift :p
<jdong> (Write Only Language)
<jdong> nixternal: the point is you hope you NEVER need it again after the 10 seconds you spend writing it and 30 seconds spent using it
<nixternal> heh, your 10 seconds would be my 10 hours
<jdong> :)
 * StevenK was employed as a Perl programmer for six years
<DanikarPN> /^.*?\.php.*?\?(.*)$/ That was mine for today
<DanikarPN> ^.*?\.php.*?\?(.*)$ That was mine for today
<jdong> /^Pos:\s*(\d+)(?:.\d)?s\s+(\d+)f\s+\(\s*(\d+)%\)\s+(\d+(?:\.\d+)fps)\sTrem:\s+(\d+min)\s+(\d+mb).+\[([\d:]+)\]/) was mine
<DanikarPN> nice
<jdong> (/^Pos:\s*(\d+)(?:.\d)?s\s+(\d+)f\s+\(\s*(\d+)%\)\s+(\d+(?:\.\d+)fps)\sTrem:\s+(\d+min)\s+(\d+mb).+\[([\d:]+)\]/) was mine
<jdong> was mine.
<jdong> mencoder CVS changed output format again
<jdong> so acidrip.pm has to follow :)
<DanikarPN> It is very pretty.
<DanikarPN> lol
<jdong> the backslashes are soothing
<jdong> why he doesn't just write a perl binding to the actual API....
<jdong> I guess this is more fun :)
<RAOF> I guess this is a usage of the word 'fun' I was not previously aware of :).
<DanikarPN> It isn't fun till you throw something against a wall.
<jdong> is it just me, or does every 2-character permutation of punctuation marks mean something in Perl?
<slangasek> ".!"
<DanikarPN> jdoing: haha, pretty much all of em probably yeah.
<DanikarPN> rofl
<DanikarPN> I suck at tab complete
<jdong> and the default perl lint-checking is about as generous as the PL/1 compiler
<jdong> i.e. you can sit on the keyboard and run it, and Perl wouldn't complain
<RAOF> jdong: How does it handle "if"?
<DanikarPN> My cat wrote a awesome perl script yesterday.
<jdong> RAOF:  perl -e 'if(awefawjkf){ awejf; kawlej; kfaw }'
<jdong> generates no errors whatsoever :D
<jdong> something tells me this can lend to some ridiculous code bugs
<DanikarPN> use strict;
<jdong> DanikarPN: yeah seems like it's a must-have for  any serious more than 5 line codebase
<DanikarPN> Yeah, I had to debug about every script my company uses when I added use script up at the top.
<StevenK> There are three
<DanikarPN> use strict rather
<StevenK> use strict; use warnings; and running perl with -w
<DanikarPN> StevenK: yeah i use -w and use strict; didnt know about warnings. ill have to look into that
<StevenK> DanikarPN: -w and use warnings; might do the same thing
<jdong> isn't there some perldiag thing that makes error messages more verbose too?
<RAOF> jdong: Soft.  perl -e 'if' returns an error code :)
<DanikarPN> Line 7: It broke.
<jdong> RAOF: yeah, compilation error at EOF
<jdong> RAOF: so it isn't the PL/1 compiler.
<warp10> Good morning
<Iulian> Hey
<kahrytan> submitted Bug 220952
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 220952 in ubuntu "Out of Range for 800x600 full screen games" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/220952
<Iulian> kahrytan: You may want to ask in #ubuntu-bugs.
<RainCT> hi
<Iulian> Heya RainCT
<RainCT> Hi Iulian
<flohack> Hi! I'm trying to build the asterisk package (asterisk_1.4.11~dfsg-1) on gutsy using pbuilder, but 'pbuilder build asterisk_1.4.11~dfsg-1.dsc' fails with a few error messages about a broken h323 installation. See alsohttp://lists.digium.com/pipermail/asterisk-dev/2006-December/025345.html Could someone help me to build this package, I would like to patch it.
<flohack> Noone?
<james_w> flohack: we're very close to release, I suspect that everyone is just busy at the moment I'm afraid.
<flohack> I see, that's fine.
<Hobbsee> flohack: do you have libopenh323-dev installed?
<flohack> that should be a build dependency of asterisk, shouldn't it?
<flohack> Yes it lists it as a dependency and pbuilder should install it
<Hobbsee> does it?
<Fujitsu> You're probably building with a version of $somepackage that is too ancient in gutsy.
<Fujitsu> !info asterisk gutsy
<ubotu> asterisk (source: asterisk): Open Source Private Branch Exchange (PBX). In component universe, is optional. Version 1:1.4.10~dfsg-1 (gutsy), package size 2033 kB, installed size 5264 kB
<flohack> it's strange, apt-get source gives me a 1.4.11 package...why could that be?
<flohack> I'll have a look if pbuilder installs the h323-dev package
<flohack> yes it installs libopenh323-dev
<flohack> I installed the pbuilder environment like this: sudo pbuilder create --distribution gutsy --othermirror "deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu gutsy main universe multiverse" "deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu gutsy-updates main universe multiversion"
<flohack> I tried it without the gutsy-updates before, but that didn't work either
<flohack> How can I retrieve a specific version of a source package using apt-get? sudo apt-get asterisk=1.4.10~dfsg-1 does not work
<Hobbsee> flohack: well, one of your problems is that you're certainly not trying to add repositories that exist.
<Hobbsee> other problems would be that the first "othermirror" you've set is already done by default (certianly should be), and that you've not told it that the second url is also supposed to be an othermirror.
<flohack> ok, I'll rebuild the pbuilder environment...
<flohack> I prepended a --othermirror directive to the second deb string. Do I have to remove the first othermirror?
<flohack> I just can't figure out why apt-get source asterisk=1.4.10 does not work.
<flohack> Ah, it is not present in http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/gutsy/universe/source/Sources.gz anymore.
<albert23> flohack: In your case it may be easier to set up a normal gutsy pbuilder, then login with --save-after-login and make the changes to sources.list manually.
<flohack> Ok, I modified the pbuilder environment (added main universe and multiverse for gutsy-backports) and installed all updates. I'll retry the build in a minute
<flohack> Hobbsee: Unfortunately I still get the same error.
<flohack> Would someone else be willing to try to build the asterisk source package on gutsy?
<sistpoty|work> hi folks
* sistpoty|work changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Universe for hardy is frozen - enjoy the break :)
 * Hobbsee feels cold.
 * sistpoty|work feels he got a cold :/
<Iulian> ffffrozen?
<Iulian> Aww
 * Iulian hides
 * jpatrick has a cold
 * Hobbsee hides in the freezer
 * jpatrick gets from fishfingers from freezer
<Hobbsee> someone's cooking?
<jpatrick> I wish
 * siretart shivers
<crimsun> yay, frozen
<Hobbsee> crimsun: so, lets see how long we can go before someone asks The Question
<crimsun> are we there yet?
<crimsun> oops, too late
<laga> Hobbsee: "can i have an exception?"
<Hobbsee> nope to both of you
<apachelogger> is hardy released yet?
 * Hobbsee beats apachelogger with a big stick
<apachelogger> meh
<apachelogger> Nightrose: did you see that?
<apachelogger> unbelivable
<Nightrose> ;-)
<jpatrick> what relations..
<jcastro> ok, 3 OpenWeek sessions left open - who wants to do one?
<Hobbsee> pass
<jcastro> boo
 * apachelogger points at Nightrose
<Nightrose> ohnoes
<Nightrose> :P
<jcastro> 1600UTC, May 1 - you know you want it
 * Nightrose really is too busy with SoC
<geser> Hobbsee: what happened to the LPSâ¢?
<apachelogger> sebner just told me in #ubuntu-at he wants to talk about something
<sebner> apachelogger: mind the release schedule :P
 * Hobbsee pokes geser with the Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!â¢
<apachelogger> omg, it is still alive
 * apachelogger hides
<Hobbsee> it is!
<Hobbsee> but it's not in kubuntu anymore!
<sebner> lol
<geser> ouch
<sebner> Kubuntu is dead. long live ubuntu xD
 * Nightrose blinks
 * apachelogger smacks sebner
<crimsun> has anyone noticed firefox chewing cpu lately?
<Hobbsee> crimsun: yes
<sebner> crimsun: yeas
<sebner> what's up with firefox?
<sebner> apachelogger: *ouch*
<RainCT> what's the sh way to do ${var%.*} (tu use it in debian/rules)?
<geser> what do you want to achieve?
<RainCT> geser: uhm.. nevermind, I've just realized that I can use sed for that (as I know the extension) :)
<RainCT> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7861/ - any idea why this doesn't work?
<RainCT> oops
<crimsun> the $
<crimsun> line 5
<crimsun> ^$, I should say.
<mok0> RainCT: Also, all statements must be on one line
<RainCT> crimsun: yes that's what the "oops" was for, but it still fails with the same error
<RainCT> mok0: uhm.. right
<crimsun> yeah, you have missing \
<RainCT> I tell other people about this but forget it myself.. :(
<mok0> RainCT: hehe
<mok0> Hmm. Why does lintian still complain over distribution name hardy.
<geser> RainCT: and instead of the sed call you could use either basename $file .po or ${file%.po}
<persia> mok0: Which lintian?  What is the revision number of your package?
<mok0> persia: 1.23.46
<persia> And the revision?
<RainCT> geser: thanks, didn't know that basename can do that. ${file%.po} is a bashism, afaik
<mok0> persia: there isn't any
<persia> mok0: How can a package not have a revision?
<RainCT> now there's still the problem that "for file in po/*.po" isn't working for some reason... :S
<mok0> persia: native package?
<tbf> hmm.... someone should write a tiny gtk wrapper for dget and associate that file with .dsc files...
<tbf> ....that way browsers would do the right thing, when you click a dsc link
<mok0> persia: ii  lintian                     1.23.46                     Debian package checker
<persia> mok0: That would be the problem then.  Native packages require "ubuntu" in the version to not generate the warning, but it looks ugly to have it there, so it only belongs when it is native in debian (and I think we ought use $(debian)-0.0ubuntuX rather than $(debian)ubuntuX in those cases, so as not to cause problems with native NMUs).
<persia> The trick is that lintian can't tell if it's an ubuntu-native package or a native package derived from debian, and so doesn't really know whether the string "ubuntu" belongs in the package name.  Unless my suggestion for native package version increments is adopted, we'll always have that bug for native packages.
<persia> Personally, I think the best solution is to abolish all native packages, but that is often considered excessive.
<mok0> persia: I agree, native packages tend to cause confusion
<mok0> persia: ... and you still may want to update the packaging in which case the revision is relevant
<persia> mok0: Right.  Especially for derivatives.
<persia> And if we are going to use native packages derived from other distros, we ought give them revision numbers that match NMU conventions: currently 1.1ubuntu1 > 1.1-0.1, which is unfortunate when looking at things that ought be merged, as it is probably important (or it wouldn't be an NMU), but it doesn't show up on the default lists.
<persia> (hence the 1.1-0.0ubuntu1 revision scheme previously mentioned)
<crimsun> tbf: except that one may not want clicking dsc links to invoke dget
<RainCT> any idea why "for file in po/*.po" doesn't work? (the same in a sh script works)
<tbf> crimsun: you know them meaning of the word "wrapper"?
<RainCT> (http://paste.ubuntu.com/7865/)
<sistpoty|work> RainCT: $ -> $$
<mok0> RainCT: you need to use $$file
<tbf> crimsun: that wrapper would allow you to choose between "download related source code" and "download dsc file only"
<tbf> crimsun: also that wrapper would have to ask you for the proper folder
<persia> RainCT: make is not shell.  Try $(wildcard po/*.po)
<tbf> crimsun: it's just boring to copy the link, open a terminal, and past the link there
<RainCT> sistpoty|work: where?
<tbf> crimsun: also dget is not that easy to find
<crimsun> tbf: which is a pretty nasty UI workflow.
<sistpoty|work> RainCT: everywhere, where you want a $ in shell code written in a makefile (having shell code in make is expensive, hence you need to give it more $$'s :P)
<mok0> sistpoty|work: hah!
<persia> RainCT: Also, don't confuse your make variables ("$(foo)") with your shell variables ("$$bar")
<tbf> crimsun: the current one, with no dsc support at all? yes!
<RainCT> ah, I see
<RainCT> great, works now. thanks :)
<geser> RainCT: ${file%.po} works also in dash (see the dash manpage)
<persia> Aren't dashisms just as frowned upon as bashisms?  Anyway, even better if you can do it all in make.
<slangasek> that's POSIX
<geser> has dash any extensions beyond POSIX?
<RainCT> uhm.. true.. dunno how I tried it before then that it didn't work xD
<slangasek> geser: dash supports several XSI extensions, I believe
<geser> but nothing that is beyond what Debian/Ubuntu expects from /bin/sh?
<slangasek> geser: I think that's supposed to be the standard for what dash implements, yes
 * sistpoty|work heads home
<sistpoty|work> cya
<bddebian> Heya gang
<geser> Hi bddebian
<crimsun> 'lo bddebian
<bddebian> Hi geser, crimsun
<duncanm> hola
<ScottK2> norsetto: I'm cleaning up the motu-release bug queue and wondering if Bug #199190 not getting done means a piece of the gfortran transition got missed?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 199190 in libitpp "[FFe] [Sync request] libitpp 4.0.3-1 from debian unstable" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/199190
 * norsetto checks
<ScottK2> Thanks.
<duncanm> i recently started experiencing massive slowdowns with firefox 3.0b5
<norsetto> scottk: I thought that was fixed, is the bug that started the whole mess
<norsetto> scottk: apparently it was never sponsored since u-u-s was never subscribed
<ScottK2> norsetto: I invalided that bug since it's to late to sync, but it sounds like an SRU is in order.
<norsetto> ScottK2: don't look at me, I will never do an sru again
<ScottK2> OK.
<ScottK2> norsetto: Would you beat on sistpoty to do it then?
<ScottK2> norsetto: Is a rebuild enough?
<norsetto> scottk2: I can check, but I'm afraid not
<ScottK2> If that's all it needs, then I'll handle it.  Please check.
<norsetto> scottk2: sure, let me finish with quodlibet
<ScottK2> Great.
<ScottK2> Bugs related to MOTU Release Team: "There are currently no open bugs." \o/
<laga> i'll prepare an SRU soon, so that might change :)
<emgent> :D
<ScottK2> laga: That's motu-sru.  Not my problem any more.  We have a different batch of bureacrats for that.
<laga> ah. too bad. maybe for intrepid then ;)
<norsetto> Bugs related to MOTU Release Team: "There are currently no open bugs."-> You guys (scottk, sistpoty) really deserve a HUGE THANKS for the wonderful work you did
<emgent> :)
<ScottK2> I think we did significantly better this time around than for Gutsy with each request at least getting considered and not being a block on progress.
<ScottK2> Not idea, but better.
<ScottK2> ideal/ideal
<norsetto> scottk2: much better (at least from what I could see on gutsy)
<milli> ScottK2: Is lighttpd security update going to make it into release?  Or saving for post...
<ScottK2> Did we have one we missed?
<milli> it's on the rcbugs list
<ScottK2> emgent: Do you know?  ^^^
<milli> SSL vulnerability
<ScottK2> I thought we got that one, but not sure.
<milli> ok
<ScottK2> At this point it's all post release.
<emgent> uhm just a moment
<milli> np, ty
<emgent> i released sime week ago one fix for SSL bug
<emgent> s/sime/some/
<ScottK2> Is the fix in the Hardy package?
<emgent> yes
<ScottK2> Coll.
<ScottK2> Cool even.
<ScottK2> milli: There you go.
<ScottK2> emgent: Thanks.
<milli> thanks guys
<milli> should mark that on the rbugs page :)
<emgent> ScottK2: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lighttpd
<emgent> np :)
<ScottK2> milli: Feel free.
<emgent> CVE-2008-1531
<emgent> fixed in lighttpd 1.4.19-0ubuntu3
<emgent> (hardy)
<ScottK2> Excellent.
<ScottK2> norsetto: Had a chance to look into libitpp yet?
<norsetto> scottk2: I'm uploading a debdiff to bug 199190. Builds ok and seems to be using gfortran, but needs further checking. If you want, you can mentor the SRU, should be a good task for a new contributor
<ScottK2> norsetto: OK.  Please take invalid off the bug then.
<norsetto> ScottK2: no need, is a different task
<ScottK2> Ah.
<ScottK2> norsetto: Your task is for Gutsy.  We need Hardy, don't we?
<norsetto> scottk2: ops
 * norsetto tries to reset his internal release timer
<norsetto> ScottK2: there you are
<ScottK2> Thanks.
<ScottK2> norsetto: Do we have to rename the binary packages?
<norsetto> ScottK2: yes
<ScottK2> Urgh.
<ScottK2> norsetto: RM has authorized upload to hardy-proposed.  Please change the revision to ubuntu0.1 and the release to hardy-proposed and upload.
<ScottK2> So much for paperwork.
<norsetto> scottk2: oh well
<norsetto> scottk2: I'm not following that up with the usual mess of testing request etc. etc. though
<ScottK2> K.  We'll make sistpoty do that.
<arne_> I am the developer of unicap, a video capture SDK, and would love to see my software available via universe. Is there another way to get it packaged than to become the package maintainer by myself?
<mok0> arf
<norsetto> arne_: what mok0 said :-)
<mok0> arne, you can file a needs-packaging bug at launchpad.net, including all the information on where to pick up the sources etc. And then hope that someone picks it up
<mok0> norsetto: :-)
<norsetto> arne_: bribes are happily accepted (mok0 has a penchant for rare beers for instance)
<mok0> hehe
<mok0> arne, in the meantime, pls take a look at this (incomplete) Upstream Guide: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UpstreamGuide
<arne_> should I take this like "the chances are not very high that someone will pick it up"?
<mok0> that depends on how persistent you are :-)
<mok0> Another piece of software where the author did the same got packaged within ~ 1 month
<mok0> arne_: software in your particular field seems rather popular
<arne_> My issue is that I am already quite swamped with work
<arne_> currently I maintain my own repository
<arne_> but since it has a lot of hits, I think it should rather go to universe
<mok0> arne_: so, you have it packaged already?
<arne_> yes but I do not know how well it is according to ubuntu guidelines
<arne_> and I have too little time to read all the docs and check it by myseld
<arne_> *myself
<mok0> arne, upload it to revu, and it will get reviewed
<norsetto> arne_: if you have a source package already, you can also consider debian-mentors, we will get the package from them afterwards
<arne_> ok, I will try with revu
<arne_> thanks for your help!
<mok0> arne_: but file a needs-packaging bug too. See bug 200783 as an example
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 200783 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] ChibiTracker -- a portable impulse tracker" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/200783
<arne_> mok0: ok, will do
<mok0> arne_: great! Thanks for your contribution
<ScottK2> superm1: I see mythbuntu-control-centre (source) 0.28-0ubuntu1 in the unapproved queue.  Do you need that?
<laga> ScottK2: yes.
<laga> that was the SRU i was going to file
<ScottK2> laga: OK.  Let me talk to the RM about it.
<stan1> arne_: does it have python bindings?
<arne_> no
<stan1> :-(
<arne_> unfortunately not
<arne_> I once worked on them but did not have the time to finish it
<norsetto> arne_: also, check it with lintian (both the source and binary packages), this will give you quite a lot of hints already on things to be worked on
<stan1> arne_:so which language does it support?
<arne_> C
<arne_> http://www.unicap-imaging.org
<arne_> norsetto: thanks, I will check it out
<stan1> arne_: ok,thans
<norsetto> arne_: if you have problems to understand what lintian is telling you (it can be cryptic sometime), just ask here
<norsetto> arne_: and a last tip, pay particular attention to debian/copyright; since you are upstream, if you have all sources with a clear header stating license and copyright, this will make things much smoother
<arne_> norsetto: the license of all files should be clear
<norsetto> arne_: perfect then
<norsetto> scottk2: package uploaded to hardy-proposed, now forget about me ....
<ScottK2> norsetto: Thanks.
<mok0> Any news on when intrepid opens for development??
<slangasek> can we finish releasing hardy first, please? :)
<sebner> mok0: normally it takes 2 weeks IIRC
<mok0> so we'll be stalled for 2 weeks?
<sebner> mok0: bugs are always and everywhere ;)
<mok0> sebner: yeah
<sebner> mok0: but you are totally right. bleeding edge is the only true thing =)
<mok0> sebner: ... a lot  of the bugs will be fixed by syncs and merges, anyway
<sebner> mok0: but that are not SRU
<mok0> sebner: true
<sebner> mok0: and yes. syncs and merges are my profession, my pleasure :D
<mok0> sebner: :-)
<ScottK2> mok0: You can review and comment on the backlog on REVU in the mean time.
<mok0> ScottK2: good idea :-)
<ScottK2> Gotta go.  See you later.
<mok0> See you!
<sebner> hf
<mok0> sebner: did you manage to get your merges uploaded for hardy?
<sebner> mok0: define *my* merges
<mok0> sebner: the ones you instigated :-)
<sebner> mok0: in what timeframe ;)
<mok0> last week
<mok0> you had a whole bunch from the rc queue
<sebner> mok0: hmm. I have 2 ones that are 3 weeks old ^^.  Scott already added a comment for one "Please update for intrepid". Last few weeks I did a little little bit bugfixing but had to learn mostly for school
<mok0> sebner: eeek
<sebner> mok0: but also with your help I think all the RC things got uploaded :)
<mok0> sebner: cool
<sebner> mok0: and now I'm keen to merge and sync cool new stuff ^^
<sebner> cool: sry ^^
<sebner> s/cool/hot
<norsetto> sebner: if you really have nothing else to do, why don't you fix bug 221171?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 221171 in xchat-xsys "xchat-xsys displays wrong distro" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/221171
<sebner> norsetto: if nothing == school then yes ;)
<mok0> norsetto: isn't that the one that depends on a non-existing package?
<norsetto> sebner: school teaches you nothing nowadays, yes
<mok0> norsetto: or rather, a library not packaged
<norsetto> mok0: yes, it was
<sebner> norsetto: xD. true. but I have final exams soon so I have to learn that stuff that also if it makes no sense ;)
<norsetto> sebner: final exams, in APRIL!?
<sebner> norsetto: 2 weeks. and now we are learning and repeating the stuff from 4 years ..
<norsetto> sebner: well, so you will have a lot of time after april :-)
<sebner> norsetto: hmm. 1 month to learn for my oral exams
<sebner> in june ..
<sebner> norsetto: but yes. I already thought about it to start uploading something on REVU during this month :)
<norsetto> sebner: if you really want to package new stuff, you might as well do something usefull, why not tackling bug 133784?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 133784 in saods9 "saods9 is way out of date wrt upstream (4.0b7 vs 4.13)" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/133784
<mok0> sebner: there are 726 needs-packaging bugs... ;-)
<sebner> mok0: yeah ^^
<sebner> norsetto: I'll file a bug in BTS. Merging is a lot more fun :P
<norsetto> sebner: don't bother with that, the package is orphaned
<sebner> norsetto: then remove it ^^
<norsetto> sebner: too bad, doing that package could also mean adopt it in debian and be on your way to be a dm
<sebner> norsetto: we'll see. but for the next few weeks I don't feel like to become a dual maintainer ^^
<norsetto> sebner: actually, what are you doing here instead of studying!?
<mok0> norsetto: what procedure do you recommend for getting packages -> debian? upload to mentors?
<sebner> norsetto: talk with some friends and the motu family to relax and calm down before going to bed ;)
<norsetto> mok0: yes, but it helps if you can also cc a team (if there is one which is relevant)
<norsetto> mok0: for instance, debichem for chemical packages, etc.
<mok0> norsetto: I am involved with the debian-med team, but not all packages I maintain fall in that category
<norsetto> mok0: what I mean is that your chances are much higher if you find somebody which is interested in that package
<sebner> norsetto: btw. becoming a maintainer wouldn't be the biggest problem but since I have no relevant programming skills at all I wouldn't be able to fix *any* bug. and always annoying upstream ... :(
<norsetto> sebner: I have no relevant programming skills too, but I'm good at annoying upstream :-)
<mok0> sebner: learn some programming!
<sebner> mok0: that's very easy to say ;)
<mok0> Read Kernighan & Richies book on C programming, the best programming book ever written, and it's thin too
<sebner> norsetto: not true. what about your conky fix
<norsetto> sebner: yes, what about it? you need programming skills for that!?
<sebner> mok0: well. we'll see but to be honest. For *now* I'm happy with merging and syncing what doesn't that a lot of time
 * mok0 sighs
<sebner> norsetto: sure. I and a lot of other people wouldn't have had any clue how to solve ..
 * norsetto shrugs
<sebner> motu's are geeks
<sebner> the ubuntu users are right xD
<sebner> ^^
<mok0> Geeks have more fun
<laga> compared to?
<sebner> ^^
<mok0> laga: non-Geeks :-)
<sebner> lol
<norsetto> mok0: surprise surprise, geek is not in my collins
<RainCT> he
<RainCT> +h
<crimsun> sebner: bug fixing is problem solving.  It has surprisingly little to do with programming when one considers.
<mok0> crimsun: but it helps being able to see what the code does
<laga> crimsun: depends. for segfaults, it can matter.
<crimsun> mok0: absolutely.
<sebner> crimsun: sure but if you have no knowledge in C for example you can't write that much new code or something similar
<pwnguin> well, even if you can read code
<pwnguin> it takes a lot of knowledge on how to fix it
<mok0> pwnguin: true
<pwnguin> worse, the code is often poorly documented, so you don't know nessecarily what the right fix would be
<Jazzva> pwnguin: Go for the one you think is the best ... There might be a lot of best fixes :)
<pwnguin> ie, in xkb, i found a function returning null in some cases, and a specific instance where it was not checked before dereferencing
<crimsun> even "worse", sometimes the "correct" fix constitutes a significant regression.  Hooray for legacy support!
<crimsun> the saddest part of fixing bugs is having to juggle conflicting policies
<mok0> most segfault bugs are due to null pointers, so if you can point out to upstream where and when that happens, it can be a great help
<pwnguin> its not clear what returning null meant as the conditions were incredibly commplex, but apparently upstream decided the fix was "if null, return"
<mok0> pwnguin: if the code attempts to dereference a null pointer, it is definitely a bug :-)
<pwnguin> yes, but do you stop returning null, or do you simply ignore it in that case? apparently ignore it
<pwnguin> another example would be liferea, where adding MIME to the parsers is simple, but making the program handle them might need six months to understand
<mok0> pwnguin: if the pointer is being dereferenced, it is not supposed to be null _ever_, and so it must be a bug
<pwnguin> fortunately, packaging doesn't involve writing new code
<pwnguin> so that argument's out
<mok0> pwnguin: shell code?
<sebner> pwnguin: but bug fixing ;)
<pwnguin> shell code?
<pwnguin> oh
<mok0> pwnguin: that's programming...
<pwnguin> true enough
<sebner> mok0: I don't even know that xD
<mok0> sebner: neither do I lol
<sebner> mok0: but you can programm
<mok0> sebner: yeah
<sebner> mok0: language?
<pwnguin> fortunately, liferea decided to implement mime type support a few months after i filed a bug about it
<mok0> My favourite ones are C, C++ & Python
<laga> Scientus: any news on mythbuntu-control-centre?
<laga> err, ScottK
<laga> sorry :)
<mok0> laga: ScottK took off a while ago
<sebner> mok0: I don't even have time to learn 1 language (what means a deeper knowledge of it)
<pwnguin> if you dont have time to lern a language, where's the time to write packages coming from?
<Danikar> sebner: if u start messing around with code you would probably be suprised how fast you can know it.
<mok0> sebner: just read K & R. Really.
<pwnguin> does K & R use K&R synatx?
<sebner> mok0: C. I hate C. The code is compared to python or C# so complicated ^^
 * pwnguin fails at typing today
<sebner> Danikar: hmm
<mok0> pwnguin: I think there's a new version that uses the ANSI syntax
<mok0> pwnguin: but the K&R book teaches you everything you need to know about writing programs
<Danikar> sebner: I'd learn C or C++. C# and other higher level languages are nice but you really start to understand stuff with C and other languages liek htat.
<Danikar> K & R is a really good one if you have the basics down already. They go kind of fast.
<sebner> Danikar: I started to learn c++ one or 2 years ago. after 1 month I gave up
<pwnguin> sebner: C++ is stupidly complicated
<sebner> ^^
<Danikar> sebner: C is a lot easier than C++ imo. But you can't give up, it will be hard sometimes, just have to get through it.
<mok0> But C++ is a superset of C, so learning C will help you learn C++
<sebner> Let's start a flameware
<mok0> And learning Python will teach you about oo prgramming
<Danikar> mok0: Learning C++ was brutal, my C++ teacher just told me everything I did was wrong cause it was too C like. lol
<Danikar> mok0: i like printf too much.
<sebner> lol
<mok0> Danikar: heh
 * sebner has to go to bed now. tomorrow is another challenge in school -.-
<mok0> Danikar: learn OO programming from Python, then C++ becomes much easier. A lot of the STL stuff enables you to use C++ in a "Python-like" way
<mok0> See you sebner
<sebner> bye
<Danikar> mok0: I am writing some PHP5 stuff for work, so I am learning classes that way. They are pretty similar. I have never touched python, but I definetly want to look into it when I get the time.
<pwnguin> mok0: i figure C++ is on its way out. STL is nice but i find it quite ugly and unintuitive at times
<mok0> pwnguin: on it's way out?
<pwnguin> yea. unless you think it's already out
<mok0> pwnguin: what will replace it, C#?
<Danikar> My problem with programming is when I look at a real programs source code I am just lost. Don't know where to even start to find a bug.
<pwnguin> c#, java, python, ML, etc
<pwnguin> Danikar: usually one starts with a backtrace
<mok0> C# is obknoxious Microsoft stuff
<Danikar> pwnguin: What is a backtrace?
<pwnguin> hmm. a back trace is a bit like a path from the start of the program to how it crashed
<pwnguin> its a dump of the stack, indicating which function called which etc that caused a serious error
<norsetto> "<mok0> And learning Python will teach you about oo prgramming", I would rather say "teach you about how to make a program crash in about a zillion different ways" ;-)
<Danikar> pwnguin: So you manually go through it like that?
<mok0> Danikar: you can use a debugger
<mok0> gdb, for example
<pwnguin> Danikar: you can load it up in gdb and if the program was compiled right, it'll tell you that info, including what lines of source code
<pwnguin> at that point its pretty easy to see where the error happened, though determining what SHOULD happen instead is the hard part, like i said originally
<mok0> ... and you can analyze the values of all variables at the time of the crash
<pwnguin> well, most variables
<Danikar> pwnguin: Can you use that for fixing things that don't necessarily cause the program to crash?
<mok0> right
<pwnguin> depending on how bad the crash was ;)
<pwnguin> Danikar: gdb is quite advanced, and will let you set "breakpoints" in code
<Danikar> I have never really looked at gdb. I just printf("Hello: MSG#123\n"); Till i locate the crash lol
<mok0> Danikar: you can step through the program one instruction at a time
 * pwnguin has yet to find a decent GUI frontend to GDB
<Danikar> Ill have to look into gdb then, well documented on how to use?
<RAOF> norsetto: Learning python (the right way) well teach you the joy of unittests :)
<mok0> gdb is an awesome tool. There are also guis for it
<laga> does anyone know a nice perl debugging tool? i'd love to look at variable sometimes i step through my programs
<pwnguin> doesnt perl have an interpreter?
<laga> pwnguin: that's just not the same ;)
<pwnguin> surely ther's a perl onestep or something
<norsetto> RAOF: yes, the keyword is "the right way"
<RAOF> norsetto: Quite true.  You don't have a compiler, so without unittests you don't have an automated stupidity checker :)
<norsetto> mok0: a gui for gdb!? horror!
<norsetto> mok0: what next, an IDE? (hehehe)
<mok0> norsetto: hehehe
<RAOF> I think it's called emacs :P
<laga> pwnguin: looking at the man page for perl, there is indeed some nice stuff like "use diagnostics" which will print nicer error messages
<mok0> laga: there's a package called perl-debug
<pwnguin> laga: my only experience with perl was a bioinformatics class project where we borrowed a SNP analysis tool written in perl. after reading the code, i'm not sure i can safely eat tomatoes anymore ;)
<laga> pwnguin: yeah, perl can be quite read-only
<laga> err, write-only
<pwnguin> heh, this was more than that
<pwnguin> the termination condition?
<pwnguin> Divide by zero
<laga> okay..
<pwnguin> anyways, I'm not sure how i feel about teaching biologists programming
<RAOF> Ok, so I can see why the programmer might want to write a SNP analysis tool in something that's not C, but doesn't it want to be really, really fast and parallel?
<pwnguin> you're falling in to the trap of assumed competance
<pwnguin> perl was clearly chosen because they new a bit about it
<pwnguin> not because they were picking the right tool for the job
<RAOF> And it's not as totally rotten at string manipulation as C, presumably.
<pwnguin> well, technically the best regexp engines are written in C
<pwnguin> because perl regexps arent regular
<mok0> Actually, Perl is written in C :-)
<pwnguin> anyways, if watson can discover the structure of DNA without knowing chemistry, then i guess biologists can also write programs without knowing computation
<mok0> pwnguin: it sounds so convincing... but somehow I have the feeling that something is wrong with your logic
<laga> pwnguin: we actually have "proper" bioinformatics degree programmes here
<pwnguin> that's good
<laga> eg put them through programming 101, then try to teach the remaining 50% something more useful than standard ML ;)
<pwnguin> we just have biology students who are just required to take some bioinformatics course. apparently the other course they offered was "harder" because it had lots of programming in perl
<pwnguin> maybe there was some self selection at work there, but somehow I feel that biologists often choose the role because they hate math
<emgent> welcome HARDY!
<norsetto> pwguing: funny, here biologists teach math in high school ...
<RainCT> well, good night
 * mok0 wonders if the bittorrent trackers will be working 
<mok0> RainCT: g'night
<pwnguin> norsetto: well, I live in Kansas
<pwnguin> (an agrarian and highly conservative christian region of the US)
<norsetto> pwnguin: hmm, is that where they still teach creationism in high schools .... (no offense intended)
<norsetto> pwnguin: ok, I think that was the answer :-)
<pwnguin> well, its a bit more complicated than that. its where some people would like to teach it to their children, but the courts have ruled it religious dogma and not science
<laga> for a second i thought you guys were still talking about perl
<laga> "but the courts have ruled it religious dogma"
<norsetto> laga: perl, religion, about the same stuff :-)
<mok0> pwnguin: fortunately someone is still sane...
<pwnguin> every ten years, once the agitators think the people's guards are down, they run for School Board, and try to pass their laws. then they all get voted out next election
<Danikar> Yes, computer topic and religon cross more often than u'd think =)
<pwnguin> mok0: well, evolution is still required teaching, no matter
<Danikar> Mac Cults, Windows Crusade, The Light of Linux?
<laga> creationism is a good thing to be taught. it's part of the cultural background of many people. but it should be taught in religious ed class and not as a science
<pwnguin> mok0: every time this happens, the university board of regents threatens to require evolutionary theory to enter university
<pwnguin> the real problem i think is the order in which we present the sciences, and the emphasis we misplace in math
<pwnguin> math should be more important than it is, and the order should be physics, chemistry and then biology. because there's a very real chemical component to biology that is often missed
<mok0> pwnguin: I agree
 * norsetto heads to bed
<norsetto> night everybody
<mok0> pwnguin: I would also teach people the principles of science
<laga> pwnguin: math is important, if there's an application for it. i always disliked math, but now i have applications for that knowledge and i enjoy learning about it
<pwnguin> laga: i think mathematicians are discovering that no matter how hard they try, they cant come up with a mathematical domain that has no applications
<mok0> laga: yes, the traditional math teaching with proofs, etc. turn many people off
<pwnguin> heh, i love proofs
<slangasek> people who can't do proofs turn me off
<Danikar> People who can't do math are usually the same people who are ok with being stupid. I hate those people. lol
<mok0> Danikar: slam slam slam
<pwnguin> my roommate's a computer engineer who got upset when he got a D in Programming Logic. apparently it his firm belief that logic begins and ends with NAND
<Danikar> Its not bad being stupid, it just bad to be ok with being stupid. =)
<mok0> Danikar: hehe
<RAOF> mok0: The problem is that you _have_ to understard proofs to think mathematically :)
<mok0> RAOF: I disagree, actually
<mok0> You can learn a lot by studying applied math
<slangasek> pwnguin: I don't trust software written by computer engineers. :)
<pwnguin> mok0: we call that science
<laga> pwnguin: sure. the difference is how it's presented in school. i spent thirteen years in school, and most of the math stuff there was boring because it was theory without any obvious practical application (of course there are lots of applications)
<pwnguin> slangasek: well, my other roommate's an EE, so it gets pretty bad
<RAOF> mok0: Maybe I can restrict the domain of the statement 'think mathematically' to make it a tautology :)
<Danikar> laga: Just the fact of doing arbitrary problesm helps you just think more logically about other arbitrary real life situations.
<pwnguin> laga: somehow, i cant see your argument going anywhere besides more word problems in Algebra class
<jdong> I thought word problems were only on amd64?
<jdong> sorry that was a bad pun
<laga> hah
<pwnguin> ba-dump-ching
<Danikar> jdong: lol
<slangasek> pwnguin: ok, yes, EEs are worse
<RAOF> mok0: You certainly can learn a lot of stuff by messing around with applied maths; but to really _grok_ maths you need the kind of pedantic thinking that results in the 'black sheep' joke.
<laga> Danikar: i don't doubt the benefits. i'm trying to make the point that i found it boring as hell when it clearly doesn't have to be that
<pwnguin> there's plenty of fun abstract math games
<pwnguin> gplanarity is in universe i think
<mok0> RAOF: I can use math without knowing the proof that it works. If I trust that someone has developed the theory consistently.
<mok0> RAOF: The same as I don't need to know how to write a compiler to use one
<RAOF> mok0: Quite true.  But I wasn't really talking about _using_ it, I was talking about 'thinking mathematically'.
<mok0> RAOF: I think a small minority of students have an interest in that
<pwnguin> mok0: but it certainly helps life to be able to write your own compiler
<pwnguin> mok0: unless you intend to live life with only regexp
<mok0> pwnguin: heh
<pwnguin> note: regexp is bad for lots of problems
<pwnguin> xml + regexp = fail
<mok0> Life is grepping for the true regexp
<pwnguin> so -mote is pretty slow during the freeze i guess
<pwnguin> err, -motu
<RAOF> Eh; regular languages are boring.  It's all finite-state-machines or semigroups :)
<Danikar> laga: Heh yeah I guess I can see how it could be boring. I really like logic/mathematics so I dont get that bored in it.
<mok0> RAOF: semigroups?
<laga> Danikar: imagine being caught in a liberal arts class. ;)
<RAOF> They're like groups, but without the inverse.
<Danikar> laga: lol
<pwnguin> i love wikipedia
<mok0> RAOF: Ah ok
<pwnguin> "in other words, a semigroup is an associative magma"
<Danikar> laga: I was a Philosophy major untill I relized that most philosophy is centralized on ethics. So I changed to Computer Science/Mathematics
<mok0> Danikar: respect
<RAOF> Some might call that 'applied philosophy' :)
<laga> heh
<RAOF> (By that, I mean 'ethics', not maths)
<Danikar> laga: I just take philo calsses for my general ed, but they are very interesting / fun.
<laga> sure.
<mok0> "Ethics" is the moral of those in power
<pwnguin> so what of the ethics of open source?
<laga> RMS?
<Danikar> mok0: Heh Ethics is interesting, just not what I am interested in. Laws are the Ethics of those in power. =)
<mok0> pwnguin: the moral of the leading figures in open source
<laga> i always like languages and all that liberal arts stuff better than math, but i also liked computers a lot, so i ended up in computational linguistics. :)
<mok0> laga: that's a hot field
<laga> mok0: yes. very interesting, IMHO, and you get to play with some nifty stuff
<Danikar> Heh had to go look up on wiki what exactly that is. =) It does sound interesting. The one thing that I dislike about this world is that I wont have the time to learn everything. But damned if i wont try.
<laga> good point :)
 * mok0 is trying to remember what famous software package is written by a linguist...
<mok0> Is it Perl?
<laga> yeah, wikipedia tells me that larry wall used to study linguistics
<mok0> Hooray, my brain still works :-)
<Danikar>  /claps
<mok0> I still think Larry Wall's most impressive creation is patch
<laga> patch is awesome
<mok0> We wouldn't have Ubuntu without it :-)
<laga> unified diffs make me happy
#ubuntu-motu 2008-04-24
<ScottK> laga: I asked slangasek, but never got an answer on myth-control-center
<slangasek> ScottK: hi, what was the question?  I seem to have misplaced it in the flood
<ScottK> slangasek: You have (had last I looked) myth-control-center sitting in unapproved for the release pocket
<slangasek> correct
<ScottK> What I suggested was how about if you reject that and then some mythbuntu person re-uploads to -proposed.
<ScottK> I gather they need it.
<slangasek> ah, did I not ack that?  yes, please
<ScottK> laga: ^^^
<ScottK> Go for it.
<ScottK> It's possible I missed the ack too.
 * ScottK was sitting in a rare $WORK meeting where he had internet access and may have been distracted.
<jdong> ScottK: do you want to accept that last upload you wanted me to do?
<jdong> the quodlibet one
<ScottK> It's accepted IIRC.
<jdong> oh nvm then :D
<Danikar> probably total noob like question, but what is ack?
<jdong> ACKnowledged
<ScottK> Short for Acknowledge
<Danikar> Ah ok, that makes all sorts of sense now.
<superm1> slangasek, re "<ScottK> What I suggested was how about if you reject that and then some mythbuntu person re-uploads to -proposed.", i just uploaded it to proposed too
<slangasek> superm1: ok, cheers
<slangasek> superm1: you're not expecting it to be approved through before release, right? :)
<superm1> slangasek, well i guess this is the reason we have the option of using a PPA in our build system :)  that will be fine.  i'll push it through the ppa for now and then shortly after release hopefully it can clear -proposed and -updates
<slangasek> ok
<LaserJock> evening everybody
<ScottK2> Evening.
<ScottK2> LaserJock: You're on motu-sru, right?
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> want me to look at something?
<ScottK2> Last release motu-release (because there was no motu-sru) suspended the must in the development release first rule and got people moving early on SRUs.
<ScottK2> I'm figuring that's out of scope for use this time.
<LaserJock> suspended the what?
<ScottK2> I recommend it and would encourage motu-sru to conspire and make an early announcment.
<ScottK2> The rule that you have to fix something in the development release before you do the SRU.
<LaserJock> ohhh, right
<ScottK2> Since there is no development repository right now.
<LaserJock> I'm not very fond of that rule
<ScottK2> I mentioned this to jdong last night too.
<gnomefreak> was the nvidia 5200 and 5500 drivers changed from nvidia-glx-new to -glx?
<LaserJock> it's a good idea, but often doesn't really help the quality of the SRUs particularly
<slangasek> I would think it's a good general policy anyway to avoid accidentally regressing again in the /next/ release...
<ScottK2> Agreed.
<ScottK2> It worked out last time for getting started early.
<ScottK2> Although I think that most of our preventable regressions come from incompletely documented merges and then some Ubuntu specific change gets dropped.
<LaserJock> well, it would make more sense to me if we did more new upstream releases in -updates
<ScottK2> There's a rule for that too.
<ajmitch> hello
<ScottK2> LaserJock: In that case, you might want to look into Bug 220723
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 220723 in wesnoth "Please sync wesnoth 1:1.4.1-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/220723
<ScottK2> ajmitch: Hello.
<LaserJock> but often times the code in the devel release is very different than in the stable release so requiring a fix in the devel release first is just a way of making sure we're getting things fixed in the devel release
<ScottK2> ajmitch: Thanks again for the RC bug page.
<LaserJock> which is all good, but not something we should really block on, IMO
<ajmitch> ScottK2: I hope it was useful
<ScottK2> ajmitch: It was.
<ajmitch> I'd like to keep it on hardy for awhile, and have another page for intrepid
<ScottK2> I wish we'd had more QA effort in Universe for Hardy, but RC bugs page was a key part of what we got done.
<ScottK2> Sounds smart.
<ScottK2> LaserJock: Then you need some process for knowing the problem is still open in the developmental release.
<LaserJock> ScottK: like a bug report?
<ajmitch> #ubuntu-release-party is interesting today
<LaserJock> like how hard is it to just leave the main task open on a bug and just close stable release tasks for SRUs?
<LaserJock> I don't see why we necessarily have to have a fix in the devel release for a fix to get into a stable release
<ScottK2> LaserJock: That'd work.  I'm just saying someone needs to champion changing the process.
<crimsun> well, is there concise documentation on what combination of Severity and tasks constitute SRU fixes?
<LaserJock> nope
<crimsun> last I checked in -devel, there was discrepancy
<LaserJock> the only real documentation I have is that it needs to be "very important", already fixed in the devel release, and "minimal"
<LaserJock> "minimal" is for the fix, not the bug
<LaserJock> ScottK2: you do -backports some don't you?
<ScottK2> Yes
<LaserJock> what's your feeling on people trying to get stuff into -backports to fix bugs?
<LaserJock> rather than just trying to get latest crack
<jdong> LaserJock: I see no reason to discourage it personally though I don't want it to be an execuse not to do a proper SRU
<jdong> which is what happened when Backports DID allow SRU-like fixes
<jdong> i.e. backporting 1.2.3-15 to 1.2.3-9
<ScottK2> LaserJock: I generally wont fix requests to fix SRU bugs.
<LaserJock> I personally feel like the SRU process should be such that people aren't trying to get things fixed via -backports
<ScottK2> Actually as I understand it the backports charter from the tech board is pretty specific about this.
<LaserJock> but how often do you guys get requests for bug fixes?
<ScottK2> One of the problems is that developers often recommend it to people.
<ScottK2> It's a significant fraction of the requests, but certainly not the majority.
<ScottK2> ~10 or 20 percent maybe.
<LaserJock> k
<ajmitch> ScottK2: it's probably considered as a 'safer' option for getting fixes in
<LaserJock> I need to talk with slangasek more, but I think we should be able to come up with a way to deal with those kinds of requests
<ajmitch> though you probably just end up with more people unnecessarily enabling backports
<jdong> ScottK2: it's more common than that
<ScottK2> The "OK to backport" threshold is very low.  Builds/Installs/Runs.
<ScottK2> jdong: Probably more common in the desktop ones you tend to deal with.
<jdong> ScottK2: and I'm getting feedback from users wanting to file such backports to do SRUs that "they rather not"
<jdong> because it's "not gonna happen anyway"
<jdong> :-/
<ScottK2> I sometime tell them to ask again, but ask for the features in the release and don't mention the bug fixes.
<ajmitch> SRUs are seen as having a rather large barrier?
<ScottK2> Yes.
<ScottK2> Particularly in Main.
<ajmitch> I don't think I've ever got an SRU in
<LaserJock> I guess I'm particularly interested in how many times we say "we won't fix it" vs. "we can't reasonably fix it"
<ScottK2> I've gotten several in Universe.  I don't think I've gotten one in Main.
<LaserJock> I got I think 2 or 3 in Main
<LaserJock> not sure if I've done any in Universe really
<LaserJock> like, this wesnoth bug is interesting to me
<ScottK2> I thought you'd like that one.
<LaserJock> I don't mind saying things like "we're unable to sufficiently test this update" or something technical
<LaserJock> but if it's just "oh, there's a lot there, we better not do it"
<LaserJock> well, that just ends up seeming lazy, IMO
<crimsun> I think that bug is trivially significant for -proposed->-updates
<crimsun> it's all fixes
<ScottK2> Modulo dropping debian's packaging changes
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> it seems to me that given sufficient testing things like that shouldn't be a problem
<ScottK2> LaserJock: So there you go.  Test case for point release SRU.
<LaserJock> ScottK: I've already emailed the TB about it
<LaserJock> waiting until after release to pick slangasek's brain
<ScottK2> It's not like it hasn't happened before.
<ScottK2> LaserJock: Go look at the clamav version in dapper-updates.
<slangasek> LaserJock: be sure to wait a few days so the cells have a chance to regrow ;)
<LaserJock> slangasek: heh, yeah
<LaserJock> this may not be the best example, but I've been running Fedora a fair bit recently
<jdong> LaserJock: fedora has an EXTREMELY lenient update policy
<LaserJock> and their policy is to do new upstream release in preference to backporting fixs
<jdong> LaserJock: everything from a typo in a helpfile to OpenOffice or an ABI-incompatible libgpod
<jdong> LaserJock: including new kernel releases
<LaserJock> yep
<jdong> that's a bit scary for us
<jdong> IMO.
<jdong> at least unless we evolve -backports into -volatile
<jdong> which I have no fundamental objection to ;-)
<LaserJock> but they're able to keep a reasonably stable OS
<jdong> LaserJock: kind of
<jdong> LaserJock: users have rioted over things like unison breaking overnight
<jdong> LaserJock: and spurious updates too
<LaserJock> so if you take Fedora as one extreme
<LaserJock> and our current policy as sort of the other
<jdong> I don't want 350MB of updates because of a new icon for openoffice
<LaserJock> perhaps somewhere in the middle we can find a usable way to provide stable updates to our users
<LaserJock> bbiab
<ScottK2> This time around we have a .1 release pre-planned a month out.
<ScottK2> I'd tend to say be really lenient about bugfix releases and beta or RC to final updates until then.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<ScottK2> Heya bddebian
<bddebian> Hi ScottK2
<ScottK2> LaserJock: We were a lot more lenient about bugfix releases post FFe this time around and it seemed to work out well.
<ScottK2> This is for motu-uvf/release
<ScottK2> What's the name of the Gnome gui for apt (adept equivalent)?
<bimberi> synaptic
<ScottK2> Thanks.
<LaserJock> back
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<LaserJock> hiya bddebian
<LaserJock> ScottK2: yeah, maybe something along the lines of letting more things through until .1 would make sense
 * ScottK2 didn't volunteer for motu-sru, so good luck with it ;-)
<ScottK2> It would end us up with less "You've got an RC in the final release, how awful" kind of comments.
 * StevenK could do without those comments for Haryd
<StevenK> Hardy
 * ScottK2 departs #ubuntu-release-party due to getting dizzy.
<crimsun> that bad?
<crimsun> nah, just ruffians.
<ScottK2> It in combination with averaging about 4 hours of sleep per night for the last about 5 days.
<LaserJock> well, I think people generally don't realize how much we change compared to upstream
<LaserJock> so if we have an rc version then it must not have the fixes in the final
<LaserJock> etc.
<ScottK2> Right.
<LaserJock> same thing happens with SRUs
<LaserJock> i.e. I must have a new upstream version to get upstream bug fixes
<ScottK2> I know for Postfix lamont chose to patch 2.5.1 with all the 2.5.2 fixes rather than release with 2.5.2~rc1
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> I guess I just wonder if we need or can get that info to users better
<ScottK2> I suspect the ones that most need the information are the least likely to listen.
<LaserJock> good point
<nixternal> yo yo you freakazoids!
<LaserJock> hi nixternal
<nixternal> wasabi LaserJock
<LaserJock> chillin', discussing SRUs, working on a Fedora 9/Hardy blog post
 * nixternal holds back the giggles on F9/Hardly post
<nixternal> err, Hardy
<LaserJock> got some kick butt data today at work
<LaserJock> but of course nobody would understand it if I described it
<LaserJock> so I won't
<nixternal> ahh thought so :)
<LaserJock> it's like being at the CIA
<LaserJock> except I don't get the cool shades
<ScottK2> More like heavy duty industrial goggles?
<LaserJock> yeah, just bought some
<LaserJock> $300 a pop
<LaserJock> but they're nice
<LaserJock> don't look welding goggles from the 80s anymore
<miyako> so, I'm a bit confused; does motu do any development on the packages, or just build packages?
<LaserJock> development, maintenance
<LaserJock> things like that
<LaserJock> teaching, sponsoring, reviewing as well
<miyako> I've been trying to find a way to contribute more to open source, looking around on launchpad now, but I was a little confused on that point
<miyako> since most of what I saw was specific to building/fixing packages
<LaserJock> well, that is a lot of what we do
<LaserJock> making sure the archive is in good shape
<LaserJock> StevenK: ping
<StevenK> LaserJock?
<miyako> so, if I want to primarily do more on the development side, as opposed to building packages, should I look more toward core (assuming I want to work on ubuntu) then?
<LaserJock> miyako: what do you mean by "development"?
<miyako> LaserJock: writing code, either adding new features or fixing bugs
<LaserJock> ah, I see
<LaserJock> since everything ends up in a package it's often a bit difficult to distinguish between code development and package development
<LaserJock> well, it kind of depends on what kind of things you want to do
<LaserJock> if it's working on specific software for Ubuntu then you might perhaps find a relevant team
<LaserJock> for bug fixing you might want to hook up with the Bug Squad
<miyako> yeah, what I would really like is to have a specific project or application, something that I can get comfortable with the code base, etc, and work on that, fixing bugs and adding features
<miyako> I was originally looking to contribute to things upstream (especially since ubuntu isn't the only distro I use) but I've had really bad luck with that so far
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> do you have any projects you're specifically interested in?
<miyako> LaserJock: well, I've thought about it a bit, but I havent gotten any specific programs in mind
<ScottK2> miyako: If you're interested in KDE at all, kde4 right now is an interesting mix of packaging brand new stuff, fixing bugs to mature it, and writing new stuff to fill the gaps.
<LaserJock> yeah
<miyako> ScottK2: hmm, I'm a gnome user, but that might be something to look at anyway; I've done a bit with Qt a couple of years ago
<ScottK2> miyako: The best channel for that is #kubuntu-devel (although it's pretty quiet right now).
<miyako> I was looking at compiz, upstream, but I found it really hard to get into the codebase and the developers weren't all that helpful
<ScottK2> As an example, I'm pretty sure we're missing a qt4/kde4 program to control display brightness.
<ScottK2> Kubuntu is very welcoming.
<miyako> and I was working on Planeshift, the people were nice, but there was too much structure there, it was like working a second job
<ScottK2> Here's it's more about being open to you volunteering the way you want.
<ScottK2> You do need to show you know something/are trustworthy before you get upload rights to the archive.
<miyako> ScottK2: yeah, that's understandable
<nixternal> yo yo!!
<nixternal> Kubuntu will rock your socks right off your cousins feet!
<miyako> I tried contributing a couple of kernel patches, but you want to talk about an obtuse system to work through to get something accepted
<ScottK2> Yep.
<ajmitch> nixternal: I even tried kde4 the other day
<LaserJock> nixternal: how's Vista going?
<nixternal> I haven't run Vista in a couple of months now, so I wouldn't know :)
<ajmitch> kde4, vista, same thing
<ScottK2> miyako: Even small stuff is welcome.  My first contribution to Kubuntu core development was to get GPG and S/MIME encryption working out of the box with Kmail for Gutsy.
<miyako> I got a new laptop that shipped with vista, it never had a chance to boot up
<LaserJock> ajmitch: pretty much
<miyako> well, back when I fiddled around with KDE4, I did start writing a GUI program to edit containments
<nixternal> whose bright idea was it to remove the Epiphany icon from the menus?
<ajmitch> remove? I still see mine
<nixternal> I just installed Hardy, then installed epiphany-browser and there is no icon under Internet
 * ajmitch only has an upgraded system, not a new install
<ScottK2> nixternal: We provide you with a proper standards compliant browser when you install.
 * ScottK2 has only one server as a new install.
<ajmitch> nixternal: you have epiphany-gecko installed, I expect?
<LaserJock> anybody  happen to know if libgsf is still libgsf or if it was incorporated into something else?
<ScottK2> That one due to a sad story involving me using apt-get dist-upgrade instead of using the official upgrader, a software raid array, and things upgrading in the wrong order.
<nixternal> ScottK2: on Firefox sucks, and if I am using Gnome I want Epiphany
<LaserJock> uggg
<LaserJock> heresy
<ScottK2> Ah.  I've never gone down that choice in the logic tree.
<ScottK2> I never get to if I have Gnome.
<LaserJock> epiphany is from the devil ;-)
<nixternal> haha, me either usually
<nixternal> Epiphany is love
 * ajmitch hugs epiphany
<ScottK2> They have Ubuntu at the library, but that's the only place I've ever used it.
<LaserJock> for me epiphany does nothing better than firefox and a number of things worse
<LaserJock> so ...
<nixternal> I just want a fast, non-bloated browser, that will do what I want it to do
<bddebian> lynx?
<ScottK2> You want mozilla 1.0 then.
<LaserJock> firefox 3 is pretty darn fast
<nixternal> ahh, I got the icon now, you have to log out of gnome and back in for it to show up
<nixternal> isn't that lovely!
<ajmitch> no
<nixternal> I just had to
<nixternal> on a fresh install
<ajmitch> that is a bad thing
<ScottK2> miyako: In any case feel free to drop in on #kubuntu-devel if you want to get involved in a great project that's open to new contributors.
 * ajmitch wonders if anyone else will strike his bug of the desktop disappearing
<LaserJock> I can't seem to control my touchpad, that's my latest "what the ..."
<ScottK2> I didn't have that, but I learned today that restarting X with ctrl alt backspace while the laptop is connected to an external display doesn't lead to happiness.
<bddebian> Though not nearly as welcoming as Debian eh ScottK2? :)
<ScottK2> I think they're just mean to you.
<bddebian> heh
<LaserJock> "quick, everybody get your mean face on, bddebian is coming!"
<bddebian> Aye :)
<LaserJock> grr, I wonder who decided touchpads need to be able to scroll
<TheMuso> People who thought having a dedicated scroll area on the touchpad would be useful.
<LaserJock> I guess so
<LaserJock> it's so annoying and I can't turn it off :(
<TheMuso> I would think you can turn it off.
<TheMuso> ah
<LaserJock> well, for some reason my touchpad stopped responding to configuration programs
<LaserJock> I tried even turning it off in xorg.conf with no luck
<TheMuso> Right.
<LaserJock> but every time I go to my task bar it keeps jumping through screens
<LaserJock> really annoying
<LaserJock> s/screens/windows/
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> hello dholbach :)
<dholbach> hi ajmitch :))
<dholbach> ready for the celebrations? :)
<ajmitch> what are we celebrating?
<slangasek> let's celebrate my successful disassembly and reassembly of a new fridge to get it through the door
<ajmitch> now that's an achievement
 * ajmitch is just glad that there's a rather wide kitchen door at home
<StevenK> Haha
<StevenK> Estimated build start: in 27 seconds
<StevenK> The problem is, it's been saying that for 5 minutes.
<ajmitch> something blocked or disabled?
<StevenK> I wouldn't know, that's from Launchpad
 * ajmitch shrugs
<StevenK> Estimated build start: 0 seconds ago
<StevenK> You win, Launchpad
<ajmitch> I'd better walk home now anyway :)
<schweeb> what up MOTUs... I'm back in linux after my ~2 yr hiatus, now that the audio drivers on my new lappy work :P
<Iulian> G'morning.
<Danikar> morning =)
<Legendario> hi, i don't know why but my resulting package is empty
<Flawless> Does anybody here have experience with python-central + dh_pycentral ?
<Flawless> I'm trying to create a python package, which works well for $PYSHARED/mypackage _except_  for $PYSHARED/mypackage/subfolders
<Flawless> When I install my package, only files directly into the mypackage dir in the pycentral-dir will be available in
<Flawless> /usr/lib/python2.x/site-packages/mypackage
<Flawless> I can't figure out why
<Flawless> Do I really need to manually make my package install files in /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/foo/ AND /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/foo/ ?
<RAOF> Flawless: You shouldn't.
<Flawless> RAOF: And I don't want to :)
<Flawless> RAOF: Can you help me avoid it?
<RAOF> I mean you shouldn't have to :)
<Flawless> agreed :)
<Flawless> But it doesn't seem like pycentral works in 7.10
<RAOF> My experience with dh_py* has been Just Working, but let's give it a shot :)
<Flawless> My experience so far has been "can't make it work for the life of me" :)
<Flawless> RAOF: when you used dh_pycentral, where did you install the files in your debian package?
<Flawless> I mean, in the DESTDIR. I think that might be the issue
<RAOF> LEt me check.
<Flawless> thanks
<Flawless> RAOF: any luck? :)
<RAOF> Flawless: SOrry; distracted :)
<Flawless> :)
<RAOF> So, this setup.py just puts stuff in python2.5/site-packages
<RAOF> Which is probably wrong, now, unless cdbs' python-distutils package has been updated.
<Flawless> ok, so I'm not the only one
<Flawless> I did figure out the problem, btw
<Flawless> I create a multi-binary package from a single source
<Flawless> and each package installs things into /usr/share/pycentral/foo/site-packages/foo/
<Flawless> which is right
<Flawless> files from A are installed and compiled, but files from B are not compiled, because the install script runs "pycentral pkginstall B", but B's files are in A's folder
<Flawless> they have to be in A's folder, because the python script searches for them there
<Flawless> RAOF: It consistently doesn't work properly. I'm going to have to install into /usr/lib directly
 * RAOF shrugs.  I dunno, sorry.
<Flawless> thanks though :)
<\sh> siretart, thx again for the nice tuesday evening :)
<emgent> heya \sh ! :)
<\sh> hey emgent
 * norsetto doesn't want to know what \sh and siretart did on a nice tuesday evening
<\sh> norsetto, having one or two beer and a nice dinner :)
<emgent> lol
<norsetto> \sh: I thought cigarettes were involved too at some point ;-)
<\sh> norsetto, nicotine yes...but that's only me :)
<norsetto> \sh: don't let warp10 hear you or he will give you a lecture on it ....
<warp10> norsetto: eheh :D
<DktrKranz2> norsetto: too late
<DktrKranz2> he already did it...
<norsetto> \sh: just curious, how do you say in Germany for someone that smoke too much? I know in France they say "smoke like a fireman" and in Italy "smoke like a turk"
<siretart> \sh: it was a pleasure to me!
<siretart> norsetto: it's "smoke like a chimney"
<siretart> in german
<norsetto> siretart: makes sense to me :-)
<DktrKranz2> italian are racists :)
<warp10> norsetto: well, "smoking like a chimney" is common in Italy too :)
<slangasek> norsetto: in German, they have no concept of smoking too much ;P
<norsetto> slangasek: makes even more sense to me :-)
<dholbach> slangasek: wasn't that in Greece? :)
<slangasek> dholbach: I don't know, I've never been to Greece, but I have been through Frankfurt airport where people smoke in the terminal under no smoking signs. :)
<dholbach> ah... well *shrug* :)
<DktrKranz2> we smoke in hospitals, is it worse?
<ogra> slangasek, not anymore :(
<slangasek> ogra: since when?
<ogra> frankfurt is smokefree env now
<slangasek> it wasn't a year ago
<YokoZar> slangasek: These are the final links and won't change right? ï»¿http://torrent.ubuntu.com/releases/hardy/release/
<ogra> dunno, last time i flew you couldnt smoke anywhere inside but in a casino where you had to buy a club card first
<ogra> about two months ago
<norsetto> ogra: I do remember they had some reserved rooms in the lounges
<slangasek> YokoZar: I can't say I know much about the structure of torrent.u.c; I just know the .torrent files sit alongside the .iso's everywhere that counts
<ogra> they recently changed all german airports to that
<ogra> norsetto, well, i live in germany, i rarely have a reason to use a lounge in frankfurt :)
<slangasek> YokoZar: that appears to be only the set of torrents corresponding to what's distributed on cdimage.ubuntu.com; but yes, they're not changing further now
<norsetto> ogra: why not? Beer is free :-)
<YokoZar> slangasek: so the DVD image has been released ;)  Hooray!
<ogra> norsetto, ah, well, i'm fine to pay the 3 bucks on the train and actually move forward towards home usually if i hit frankfurt :)
<norsetto> ogra: ah, its your home airport :-) Are you in Darmstadt by any chance?
<ogra> (3 â¬ for the beer, not the ride indeed :) )
<ogra> no, saldy i dont have any home airport
<highvoltage> :(
<ogra> i live half way between frankfurt and hannover (kassel)
<norsetto> ogra: ok
<ogra> and my favorite airline sits in cologne sadly
<highvoltage> you mean airport?
<Fujitsu> Has w.u.c been sacrificed for the release?
<highvoltage> the wiki usually takes a hit on release days.it comes and goes, I think it must be getting huge amount of traffic.
<\sh> ogra, oh well, train stations and smoking is even worse..
<\sh> ogra, they have now yellow lined square somewhere on the platforms it's only 2 squarmeters and it looks like a ghetto
<ogra> yeah, i'm waiting for little fences
<\sh> ogra, actually is sinnfrei ;)
<ogra> so i can scare the train workes with my "beeeeh beeeh"
<ogra> *workers
<ogra> waering a sheep costume :)
<\sh> ogra, colleague of mine had the idea yesterday, to eat a lot of onions and beans to see if smoking disturbes other guests or the beans/onions mixture ,->
<ogra> heh
<\sh> ogra, anyways...nuernberg -> karlsruhe : departure: 9:27pm  and we reached karlsruhe 2:07am
<ogra> fun
<sistpoty|work> hi folks
 * cody-somerville waves.
<cody-somerville> Everyone pumped?! :D
<ogra> cody-somerville, have a look in #ubuntu-release-party if you look for pumped ppl :)
 * sistpoty|work tries to not ask the question :P
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: Thanks for having a good sense of humor about libitpp
<sistpoty|work> heh
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: thanks for finding out that that was still missing
<ScottK> No problem.  Glad it was sub'ed to motu-release so I could.
<\sh> I wonder when the behaviour of cluelessness of bug triager stops...
<\sh> obviously is counterstrike not a software which is in our archive..but the bug is against wine and a non working wine in combination with CS...
<\sh> but setting it to invalid is also wrong
<persia> \sh: This is the sort of case that "Won't Fix" was designed to handle.  Making wine fully compatible with counterstrike is beyond the typical role of the distro developer.
<sistpoty|work> back in the good old days, cs did work with wine though... (but I didn't test it after 1.5 or so later on, and not with the hl2 engine at least)
<\sh> persia, first, we need to identify if it's a regression of wine on ubuntu or in general...so before someone didn't find a clue that ubuntu is not at fault and it's wine package, it can't be set to invalid...
<persia> \sh: Hmm.  True.
<\sh> persia, and the explanation of this triager is even more andventurous
<\sh> "However, it seems that you are not using software (Counterstrike) provided by the official Ubuntu repositories. Because of this the Ubuntu project can not support or fix your particular bug."
<\sh> I mean, it's so strange that when using wine you are mostly using software which is in no linux distro archive
<persia> That's perhaps a little overconservative, although I can understand how it came to be written.
<\sh> persia, it's totally crap
<persia> On the other hand, wine is very much a special case (while not an emulator, it is best triaged like one).
<persia> \sh: For wine, I agree.  For something like konqueror, I'd be less sure.
<sistpoty|work> \sh: maybe you can kindly tell the triager that he was wrong, so that he won't do it next time ;)
<\sh> sistpoty|work, honestly I'm sick and tired of those greatful drive-by pros who don't have a clue about the problem at all...I mean, this is not the first time...and it won't be the last time...
<ScottK> \sh: That's a standard bugsquad answer.  I've seen it before when someone asked for a lib to be added to ia32 libs so Skype would work.
<\sh> if someone doesn't understand the problem of the bug report he should not comment on it and move along
<\sh> ScottK, yeah
<\sh> ScottK, a drive-by
<ScottK> I think that particular issue is a bugsquad policy problem that could be fixed.
<\sh> totally useless
<ScottK> I think they are doing what they are being told and being told wrong.  You could fix this with bdmurray.
<ScottK> See ya.  Gotta run
<sistpoty|work> cya ScottK
<persia> The trick is describing a policy that works for all cases.  It was appropriate to reject a bug in feisty for automatix, but not for hardy for wine.  Someone has to describe the rules to govern the responses.
<\sh> persia, well, I think being a member of bugsquad needs more then just a script and some good rules...
<sistpoty|work> persia: imo it's quite easy: "If unsure, don't fiddle with it"
<persia> sistpoty|work: I'd agree with that.
<\sh> common sense, reading abilities, brain function is not always available, but should be a prerequesite for being a bugsquad member
<persia> \sh: It's an open team.  I liked that when I started with triage.  I'm not sure I'd want it to change.  It's about education (as are so many things).
<sistpoty|work> maybe bdmurray has some ideas on the topic?
<mok0> Is Ubuntu's bittorrent tracker running? Can anyone reach it?
<\sh> persia, I agree...but it means also, that people should know to not put their fingers on things, they don't know or have any knowledge at all...so this must be rule 1. with top prio to follow...but as we are dealing with humans, this we can forget...because "i know everything" is quite common nowadays...
<persia> \sh: Agreed.  I believe the solution is reviewing and updating the wiki, and experienced people spending more time in #ubuntu-bugs leading the newcomers.
<james_w> persia: I'm not sure that there is a lack of the latter, there aren't that many questions asked there.
<\sh> persia, oh now I see...a "5 a day" newcomer
<james_w> do you think the strategy should change to make it easier to guide newcomers?
<persia> james_w: Currently, no, although there once was, and I believe the culture that persisted in #ubuntu-bugs is recovering from the ubotu flood.  My personal belief is that it ought be fairly active again by the end of the next cycle.
 * \sh thinks we should move to a more serious starters guide, then to start with a "it's so easy, high volume, happy hour , 5 a day, bug hunting season"
<persia> \sh: Go for it.  It just takes someone to do it :)
<james_w> persia: yes, it does seem to have improved a lot since #ubuntu-bugs-announce
<\sh> persia, yes...but for this, there is a strategy needed...which involves other people and some discussions...and not those "fire first and think about the reaction afterwards" actions...which is really bad management
<persia> \sh: Yes.  #ubuntu-bugs is the place for such discussions :)
<\sh> persia, well, hopefully I have something ready to discuss after linuxtag in may...
<persia> \o/
 * \sh swears at vmware-server
<_ruben> why's that ?
<\sh> _ruben, because it's not doing what I want
<\sh> or I am stupid to read tcpdump...
 * pochu waits for the Pony Awards!
<_ruben> \sh: what are you trying to do ?
<\sh> _ruben, something really simple
<\sh> _ruben, running a webserver on a vmware instanz with bridged networking
<\sh> normally I think of 2 mins
<\sh> but now something strange happens..
<_ruben> sounds fairly trivial indeed
<\sh> _ruben, looks like that something intereferes with bridged networking and the vlan setup on the vmware host
<\sh> bond0 = eth0+eth1 -> vlan1721 bound to bond0 -> this vlan1721 device is now my device for bridged network on /dev/vmnet0
<StevenK> pochu: You might have to wait a while for LaserJock.
<_ruben> \sh: ah, havent had such 'complex' setups yet :/
 * persia wonders if new nominations to the Aurean Equine Association would be appreciated: it's heaps of work for just one judge
<leonel> EVERYONE !   Thank you  for this  release 8.04 !
<leonel> apt-get install pizza-for-everyone !
<norsetto> leonel: anchovies for me pls.
<leonel> norsetto: anchovies  cooking  ...
<sebner> heya. Happy hardy release. Thanks to anyone who contributed :D
<afflux> sebner: morning, you too :)
<RainCT> hi sebner
<sebner> afflux: RainCT :D
<DktrKranz2> sebner: so, I guess you are on the list :P
<RainCT> sebner: you mention me to afflux and grin? uhm...
 * RainCT hides
<RainCT> :D
<afflux> hum *g*
<sebner> DktrKranz2: I don't matter ;)
<sebner> RainCT: lol
<DktrKranz2> sebner: you matter. If we look at http://debomatic.linuxdc.it/rank.txt, you're the 21st uploader :P
<sebner> DktrKranz2: empty for me ;)
<sebner> DktrKranz2: size = 0 ^^
<warp10> DktrKranz2: someone stole your rank.txt
<TeTeT> if I want to add a small patch to an existing package, what is the best tool to help me with? Right now I do, apt-get source <pkg>, create patch vs this pkg sources, add it to debian/patches/; change version with dch -v, debuild -S, run pbuilder to get binary package
<DktrKranz2> sebner: try it now.
<DktrKranz2> warp10: you accidentally deleted it when trying to hijack your position :P
<warp10> damn... he got me...
<DktrKranz2> since you have FTP access, I see logs :P
<warp10> DktrKranz2: I have no access! 0:-)
<DktrKranz2> you have it, just you didn't know
<warp10> DktrKranz2: really? mmm... nice...
<emgent> happy hardy day :P
<warp10> DktrKranz2: you're right, I'm in... well, now I can put my name at position... say... #3 should be enough :)
<DktrKranz2> your choice
<sebner> DktrKranz2: is rank 21 good or bad? ^^
<DktrKranz2> sebner: you're the second non-motu
<DktrKranz2> so, I guess it's good :P
 * warp10 looks for the first non-motu...
<sebner> warp10: Chuck Short?
<Hobbsee> he's a motu
<sebner> DktrKranz2: ^^. for intrepid at least rank 15 shouldn't be a problem xD xD xD
<sebner> hmm
<sebner> DktrKranz2: who is the first non-motu?
<DktrKranz2> ember
<DktrKranz2> pedro fragoso
<sebner> 21 more
<warp10> ah, ember... right!
<sebner> that needs revenge xD
<DktrKranz2> you'll have the chance soon
<sebner> DktrKranz2: ^^
<sebner> but not that bad since I started on 1.1 contributing
<DktrKranz2> so, it's time for ponies?
<\sh> oh 11th on the uploader list...I should stop uploading so much ;)
 * Hobbsee will have a very low series of uploads, this time around.
<DktrKranz2> \sh, argh, you beat me for just 5!
<sebner> \sh: so intention to reach a better rank?
<Hobbsee> wonder if that'll decrease further this release
<\sh> sebner, nope..just the opposite
<sebner> \sh: because.... ?
<\sh> DktrKranz2, yeah..round about 100 pkgs ;)
<fbond> This just needs a rebuild to fix: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/audacious/+bug/208425
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 208425 in audacious "Audacious not launching (Segmentation Fault)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<fbond> Takers?
<\sh> sebner, concentrating on another area of ubuntu development :)
<sebner> \sh: ok. that's understandable :)
<\sh> -Etoolate? ;)
<\sh> sebner, but I know me...it won't work ;)
<DktrKranz2> fbond: good SRU candidate, then :)
<fbond> DktrKranz2: Perfect, what next?
<sebner> hihi
<fbond> DktrKranz2: I suppose I need to write an SRU proposal or something?
<\sh> 416	Matt Zimmerman (1 packages) ?? wth ;)
<RainCT> fbond: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<DktrKranz2> fbond: yes, follow http://wiki.ubuntu.com/SRU
<DktrKranz2> RainCT: you're quick :P
<sebner> DktrKranz2: but being a u-u-s isn't funny since you have to do the review but the contributor gets the points right?
<RainCT> sebner: True :(
<DktrKranz2> fbond: once my adsl will be working again, I'll process some :)
<sebner> ^^
<sebner> DktrKranz2: once ... xD ^^
<RainCT> DktrKranz2: no, that's Firefox's new address bar :)
 * warp10 loves Firefox's new address bar :)
<DktrKranz2> aaaaaah, I'm on windows actually
<DktrKranz2> so, I can't win
<RainCT> DktrKranz2: you should better hide then :D
<DktrKranz2> heh
<sebner> DktrKranz2: being on win on hardy release day. wth? *attack* :P
 * \sh heads home
<DktrKranz2> at work, no more choices
<\sh> sebner, he's testing wubi ,-)
<RainCT> although... I've touched one too, today
<warp10> sebner: :D
<DktrKranz2> and that's the only network connection I have
<sebner> \sh: lol. hf
<DktrKranz2> yes, I'm testing WUBI
<RainCT> heh
<DktrKranz2> not true, but if saves me from being banned, sounds reasonable :P
<sebner> lol
<fbond> DktrKranz2: I should need to produce a debdiff for a rebuild only, right?
<RainCT> DktrKranz2: I see your name in a suspect yellow... irssi knows that you lied *g*
<fbond> It'd just be a simple changelog entry.
<fbond> DktrKranz2: should *not* need to, that is.
<RainCT> fbond: true. the version number should contain "build" instead of "ubuntu"
<fbond> RainCT: Right, but I don't need a debdiff, right?
<DktrKranz2> fbond: if that solves the issue, yes. target will be hardy-proposed
<RainCT> fbond: hm.. I think you do, but I'm not sure
<fbond> I mean, the debdiff would only contain a changelog entry.  Seems a bit silly.
<DktrKranz2> no, it's a rebuild :)
<DktrKranz2> it's ok to have just changeloge entry
<fbond> DktrKranz2: right, so I do or don't need to attach a debdiff to the bug?
<DktrKranz2> fbond: attach it, so you'll have credit for the upload :)
<fbond> DktrKranz2: I don't need credit, I just want it fixed, and I'm busy.
<fbond> Not attaching.
<DktrKranz2> ok, if someone wants to do some practice with SRU process, may have a look at bug 208425
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 208425 in xmms-crossfade "Audacious not launching (Segmentation Fault)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/208425
<RainCT> fbond: OK, if you ask you for one subscribe me once the SRU is approved and I'll prepare and upload it
<RainCT> s/you/they
<fbond> RainCT: Thanks.
<DktrKranz2> this will probably require a rebuild in intrepid too
 * DktrKranz2 notes audacious has several SIGSEV bugs, some of them might be duplicates
<fbond> DktrKranz2: likely...
<DktrKranz2> bug 208455 seems one of them
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 208455 in xmms-crossfade "audacious-crossfade causes crash with Audacious 1.5" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/208455
<sistpoty|work> fbond: it's motu-sru for universe updates btw, not ubuntu-sru (I just subscribed the former)
<sebner> heya sistpoty|work :) *party*
<fbond> sistpoty|work: sorry & thanks
<sistpoty|work> hi sebner (*not party, since at work* *g*)
<sistpoty|work> fbond: no problem ;)
<sebner> sistpoty|work: mentally pary :P
<sistpoty|work> heh
<DktrKranz2> fbond: it seems bug 208425 is the main collector of dupes for this issue, so I'll mark yours as dupe of this one and reasssign to xmms-crossfade
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 208425 in xmms-crossfade "Audacious not launching (Segmentation Fault)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/208425
<fbond> DktrKranz2: Okay, makes sense as long as it doesn't somehow interfere with the SRU process.
<fbond> Thanks for your attention to this, BTW.
<DktrKranz2> fbond: thanks to highlight it :)
 * sistpoty|work heads home... cya
<decklin> hello all
<POX__> congrats (8.04 :)
<fbond> I get dpkg-genchanges: cannot read files list file
<fbond> debian/files is not being genereted
<fbond> What could cause this?
<fbond> Nevermind, my fault.
<fbond> (Using CDBS, but forgot to include debhelper.mk)
<LaserJock> "enjoy the break"?
<RainCT> by the way, if someone knows of any little bitesize bug I could use this saturday (packaging jam), suggestions are welcome :)
<pwnguin> hmm. i think i started something terrible on planet debian
<LaserJock> DktrKranz2: around?
<jcastro> RainCT: you're running a packaging jam?
<jcastro> RainCT: there's a packaging playbook .pdf I attached to the packaging jam wiki page, feel free to use it for your jam, they've proven to be useful
<RainCT> jcastro: yeah, together with jpatrick
<jcastro> RainCT: feel free to cc myself and dholbach with how your jam goes, I'm keen on collecting data on how to best to improve the pages
<RainCT> jcastro: OK, I'll do. Thanks :)
<RainCT> Can someone help me with a setup.py please? I've two question... First, I want to install a data file but trying with "package_data=['data/image.jpg']," it doesn't work, and 2, if I want to install an icon into usr/share/pixmaps can I do that with distutils or should dh_install be used for that rather?
<afflux> RainCT: what kind of python thing are you packaging? Is it a python package? If so package_data is the right thing and it should work but I guess the data would be installed directly in the package dirs (where the modules of the python package lie).
<afflux> RainCT: for the pixmap thing, I do it in distutils: data_files=[('share/pixmaps', ['some-file.xpm'])]
<afflux> RainCT: for package_data look at http://docs.python.org/dist/node12.html, if the data does not belong to a python package just add it to the data_files list. (a list of (path, files) tuples, where files is a list again)
<RainCT> afflux: it's just for an example application and package, so as nobody answered I decided to simulate that its a broken setup.py file and install the data files with debian/install :P. But thanks for the info, I'll remember that for when I write a "real" setup.py :).
<afflux> hehe
<RainCT> man.. is it just me or ubuntuforums.org is awfuly slow today?
<laga> i've heard other people complain
<RainCT> hm.. ok, seems to be just me (same with google :P)
<RainCT> or not :)
<stani> pochu: we managed to make a deb for his program
<RainCT> good night
<Iulian> G'night
<sebner> gn8 RainCT
<sebner> gn8 folks :)
<pochu> stani: cool!
<stani> his application is quite nice and professional
<stani> but he has to restructure his file structure a bit
<stani> and define his own mimetype
<stani> he'll try to come to the package session
<pochu> nice
<pochu> good night
#ubuntu-motu 2008-04-25
<chillywilly> what's the preferred method of upgrading to the latest release?
<chillywilly> someone was mentioning to be using the update agent with the -d flag or some such thing
<chillywilly> I myself have always use apt-get
<wgrant> chillywilly: update-manager -d
<wgrant> chillywilly: Don't use dist-upgrade.
<chillywilly> why not?
<x1250> I did upgrade changing sources.list and then # aptitude update && aptitude full-upgrade
<x1250> just like in debian
 * chillywilly doesn't really like any of the apt front ends
<chillywilly> other than good ol' apt-get
<chillywilly> is apt-get dist-upgrade broken?
<x1250> chillywilly: then use apt-get, but aptitude handles dependencies in a smarter way, say people
<wgrant> chillywilly: No, but it isn't guaranteed to work, and definitely won't work from Dapper.
<chillywilly> this is gutsy
<rockstar_> chillywilly, dist-upgrade can do some funky things.  I'd recommend using update manager.
<x1250> aptitude should work ok
<wgrant> We have do-release-upgrade and update-manager for a reason - their are quirks between Ubuntu releases that need to be handled by special rules.
<rockstar_> +1 wgrant
<chillywilly> ok then
<x1250> ok, I'm a debian guy, so don't know those apps
<wgrant> rockstar_: You're a new LP guy, aren't you?
<rockstar_> chillywilly, I was in the same boat.  I come from the Debian world, and though a dist-upgrade would do.  I learned the hard way it doesn't
<chillywilly> neither did I
<rockstar_> wgrant, yeah, bzr-lp
<chillywilly> I've never had it "fail" on me...
<wgrant> chillywilly: It can do some funny things. And upgrading from Dapper it will definitely cause mass chaos with upstart and Python.
<x1250> any documentation for do-release-upgrade?
<chillywilly> well I was not aware of the "new" tools
<x1250> it doesn't have a man
<chillywilly> are they both GUI tools?
<wgrant> x1250: do-release-upgrade is all you need to know.
<wgrant> chillywilly: do-release-upgrade is the CLI version.
<x1250> wgrant: no its not
<x1250> I want to know more
<wgrant> Anyway, this isn't the place.
<x1250> oh, probably #ubuntu-devel?
<wgrant> That's even worse.
<wgrant> You want #ubuntu.
<LeandroMattioli> hi, there
<x1250> I just wanted to take a look at that special rules that can't be done by apt
<x1250> or aptitude
<LeandroMattioli> i'd like to know the first steps to become a Ubuntu's developer
<azeem> x1250: look at the source then
<wgrant> x1250: They're handled by the release upgrader tarball which is on archive.ubuntu.com and downloaded by do-release-upgrade, not do-release-upgrade itself.
<x1250> ok, thanks wgrant
<crimsun> LeandroMattioli: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing
<LeandroMattioli> thanks crimsun
<LeandroMattioli> guys, anywhere i look, there will be:
<LeandroMattioli> before you start, read this...
<LeandroMattioli> where is the absolute start?
<crimsun> LeandroMattioli: what do seek?
<crimsun> do you* seek, rather
<LeandroMattioli> i want to understand the ubuntu development system
<LeandroMattioli> i'm not an experient programmer
<crimsun> LeandroMattioli: ok, and what do you mean by "ubuntu development system"?
<LeandroMattioli> i've studied a bit of C, Python and GTK, and I use linux as my O.S. since 2004, but i've never got envolved
<LeandroMattioli> i'm brazilian
<crimsun> LeandroMattioli: did you read the first URL?
<LeandroMattioli> its a lot of information, isn't there a page like that in Portuguese?
<crimsun> LeandroMattioli: did you try System> About Ubuntu ?
<crimsun> in the top panel of the GNOME menu if you use GNOME
<LeandroMattioli> let me see
<LeandroMattioli> no no, there isnt any information on contributing
<crimsun> LeandroMattioli: I think it will be best to start with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted, then.  Sorry, I don't think there are translations.
<LeandroMattioli> i have an account on launchpad, that is a good start, isn't it?
<crimsun> LeandroMattioli: yes, it's a good start.  Please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted next.
<LeandroMattioli> ok
<LeandroMattioli> ill check
<LeandroMattioli> thanks for your patience
<LeandroMattioli> what about mentoring?
<LeandroMattioli> it seems its better to start with a mentor, right?
<bddebian> Heya gang
<crimsun> LeandroMattioli: I recommend the mentoring process, yes.
<crimsun> hi barry
<bddebian> Hi crimsun
<jcastro> LeandroMattioli: next week in irc we're having packaging sessions and how to get involved sessions
<jcastro> LeandroMattioli: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/
<LeandroMattioli> hmm that's fine
<jcastro> LeandroMattioli: packaging 101 would probably interest you
<LeandroMattioli> of course, that's very important
<LeandroMattioli> i dont know C++ and OOP yet, is this a big problem?
<LaserJock> evening
<TheMuso> Hey LaserJock.
<LaserJock> hi TheMuso
<LaserJock> how's it going?
<TheMuso> Very well thanks, got a public holiday in Australia today so am around, but not doing anything Ubuntu related.
<LaserJock> nice
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock, TheMuso
<LaserJock> hi Barry
<TheMuso> Hey bddebian.
<grhluna> guys
<grhluna> hello
<grhluna> listen to this one alright..
<grhluna> i have a tough choice to make i wanted to ask for opinion i have this htc touch right for me its an expensive device.. i was wondering do you think i could take the risk messing with it, in order to try linux or at least having it sync some way with the new ubuntu release.. or do you think i should leave it alone? do u think i would damage the device or not? bare in mind i dont want to buy a new one/afford a new one, the htc touch is a 
<grhluna> what would you do? would you leave it alone or give it a shot?
<wgrant> grhluna: This is not a support channel.
<grhluna> im just looking for someone familiar with the ubuntu code thats all to help me to make the choice im not asking for support
<wgrant> That isn't a development question, so isn't relevant here. It is a support question.
<grhluna> if u know just drop me a message ok
<TheMuso> The more this support stuff in here and -devel happens, the more I think #ubuntu is getting too busy for people to feel like they can get help and will get help.
<ScottK> Good evening everyone.
<ScottK> I'm still waiting for the flood of bugmail and not getting it.
<ScottK> ;-)
<wgrant> Hey ScottK.
<wgrant> There are many fewer bugs than I expected.
<wgrant> A lot of them being Kubuntu- or x86_64-specific.
<ScottK> So far I've seen exactly one new kde-guidance but since the RC and that turned out to be hal.
<wgrant> Heh. Good to see.
<TheMuso> Greetings ScottK.
<ScottK> Considering displayconfig was substantially broken with the current Xorg, I think it's terrific.
<ScottK> Hey there TheMuso.
<wgrant> A remote fraction of the upgrade failures we had for Gutsy.
<wgrant> But I hate to think what'll happen once 8.04.1 is released and all Dapper folks upgrade.
<ScottK> Yeah.
<ScottK> So what's with the new nick?  Get banned and have to hide?
<Hobbsee> ScottK: no, he must be working for canonical now, of course
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: it is.  it's been like that for a while
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: ??
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: #ubuntu being too busy
<TheMuso> ah
<ScottK> That's one theory.
<Hobbsee> or he's trying to get away from the painful guy last night, who has a similar nick.
<ScottK> Ah.
<ScottK> Hmm
<ScottK> Where do I find the list of packages blacklisted from being synced?
<ScottK> I'm trying to figure out why we don't have python-ldap-doc.
<Hobbsee> check p.u.c/~ubuntu-archiv
<Hobbsee> check p.u.c/~ubuntu-archive
<wgrant> ScottK: Decided it was time for a change, I guess.
<ScottK> That'd work too.
<Hobbsee> wgrant: pathetic
 * wgrant rechristens Hobbsee.
<Hobbsee> wgrant: no.
<wgrant> Bah.
 * Hobbsee also ditched her real name in multiple places last night
<warp10> Good morning!
<geser> good morning
<dholbach> good morning
<geser> Guten Morgen dholbach
<dholbach> hi geser
<\sh> moins
<geser> Hi \sh
<wgrant> Hey \sh.
<\sh> wgrant, nick change? how comes? :)
<wgrant> \sh: I'd been planning to do it for ages, and decided that at release was as good a time as any.
<\sh> hehe
<elmargol> reporting bugreports to debian is a pain in the a.. :(
<\sh> elmargol, claws-mail has a nice feature named templates ;) it helps /me never uses reportbug for debian actually
<_ruben> bah ... DKMS is scary stuff :p
<_ruben> hmm .. whats wrong with this changelog entry?   megaraid_sas-dkms (v00.00.03.16) stable; urgency=low
<elmargol> \sh, can I have your template?
<jpatrick> _ruben: stable?
<_ruben> jpatrick: its an auto-created entry by DKMS
<\sh> elmargol, sure...just send me an email pls, so I can reply this evening when I'm at home
<_ruben> bad syntax for version or so ? dont really have a clue myself :(
<elmargol> \sh, blaxhall.com?
<wgrant> Are versions starting with non-numerics valid?
<wgrant> I don't think they are.
<\sh> elmargol, write to sh@sourcecode.de :)
<_ruben> wgrant: that's what i was thinking .. lets see if i can fix that easily
<elmargol> mail is out
<\sh> elmargol, thx...I'll send it out this evening...when I'm home
<james_w> _ruben: you can't have an underscore in package names
<_ruben> james_w: ah!
<_ruben> will change that as well then
<elmargol> can someone please test http://launchpadlibrarian.net/13886491/shell-fm_0.5-0%7Eppa0_i386.deb
<elmargol> seems to work for me
<_ruben> ok .. dkms is just too nasty .. time to move on, might try again later
<soren> _ruben: What makes you think there's something wrong with it?
<soren> _ruben: I'm not saying there's not, but I'm just wondering.
<soren> _ruben: I'm assuming the answer will be something like "Because foo tells the bar when I try baz".
<soren> _ruben: What are foo, bar, and baz?
<_ruben> soren: well, there's either something wrong with dkms and/or megaraid_sas, or im just too stupid to figure it out under my current workload
<_ruben> these servers need to be up and running asap, if i could sneak in the latest megaraid_sas driver it would've been nice, but it isnt a showstopper atm
<soren> _ruben: You're not really answering my question.
<soren> :)
<_ruben> soren: most likely because i dont fully understand your question :)
<soren> What makes you think it doesn't work?
<soren> I'm not saying it *does* work. It just helps if you answer that question (as stupid as it may sound).
<geser> _ruben: what did you try? what worked? what didn't work? where are you stuck?
<soren> _ruben: Usually, answers to that question have the general form: "Oh, because the X says Y when I do Z". X, Y, and Z happen to be very, very helpful pieces of information, hence the question.
<_ruben> soren: dkms fails to build a .deb file for various reasons .. some things i have worked around (specifying kernel source dir, etc), but working around the invalid changelog entry wasnt successful thusfar .. the megaraid_sas package probably has some hardcoded references to megaraid_sas, since even tho i renamed a fair amount of things to megaraid-sas, it still shows mention of megaraid_sas
<_ruben> soren: once i finished up configuring these 2 machines i'll give it a try in a clean environment to see if i can pinpoint some more
<_ruben> and the fact that dkms is originally aimed at RPM aint helping either :) .. you need to alien a driver downloaded from dell .. and using the resulting .deb you can get dkms to build another .deb which holds the actual driver :P
<coolbhavi> hi
<coolbhavi>  How to merge using MoM and upload it onto my PPA?
<Hobbsee> !merge
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about merge - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<Hobbsee> bah
<Hobbsee> coolbhavi: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging
 * persia doesn't understand merging to a PPA
 * coolbhavi is a newbie in packaging so requires help badly
<azeem> maybe explain what you're trying to achieve
<Hobbsee> or maybe allow us to have a break, seeing as the release was yesterday.
<Hobbsee> persia: trying hte merged package in a ppa, probably
<persia> Nah.  Good to ask questions.  Given that the release was yesterday, people may not answer.
<persia> Hobbsee: Maybe: I just don't see the point, given the possibility of a local build.
<Amaranth> !merge is <reply>https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging
<ubotu> I'll remember that, Amaranth
<Hobbsee> persia: that requires setting up a build environment.  but yes
<coolbhavi> Ok was it wrong to ask questions? Then I'm sorry
<persia> coolbhavi: No.  Good to ask questions: just realise that many people aren't likely to answer much, especially without further information about your ultimate goals.
<jordi> hi
<jordi> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ocsinventory-agent/+bug/217257
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 217257 in ocsinventory-agent "package ocsinventory-agent 1:0.0.8-1 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess post-installation script killed by signal (Interrupt)" [Undecided,New]
<jordi> what happens to packages which break the packaging system, ie, are uninstallable?
<jordi> are those candidates for change in stable?
<persia> jordi: Very much so
<persia> !SRU
<ubotu> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<jordi> this is universe
<james_w> jordi: that will be fixed in the auto-sync for the development release.
<coolbhavi> My aim is there is a new version of John the ripper in debian which has to merged into ubuntu so I m asking
<persia> jordi: Right.  Same process, excepting subscribing motu-sru rather than ubuntu-sru.
<james_w> jordi: It's certainly a candidate for an SRU
<jordi> nod
<jordi> good, because this one is annoying me :)
<jordi> it's a pitty because I knew about this well before the release
<jordi> but I'm swamped
<james_w> jordi: yeah, that's a shame
<james_w> It should have been in one our lists that is "RC bugs fixed in Debian but not in Ubuntu", but that list wasn't empty at release
<james_w> it seems the diff from -1 to -2 should be ok for the SRU, perhaps with the debconf templates stripped, I'm not sure.
 * persia notes that SRU submissions from that list are likely very welcome, and the SRU archives are the only ones accepting uploads right now.
<james_w> persia: good point.
<jordi> I can't remember what was in -3, but I would use that one
<james_w> persia: is it possible to sync for an SRU?
<jordi> james_w: ok, yes
<jordi> james_w: the fix for this bug is in -3
<persia> james_w: I suppose it might be, but manual upload to -proposed is likely better, given the preference for reversioning and reducing the changes to the minimal set to fix the bug.
<james_w> jordi: ok, I'm pulling up the PTS now to investigate.
<james_w> persia: ok, thanks.
<jordi> james_w: http://snapshot.debian.net/archive/2008/04/13/debian/pool/main/o/ocsinventory-agent/
<james_w> jordi: thanks
<james_w> it looks like we want the combined -2 and -3 diffs.
<jordi> yes
<jordi> I'm extracting a diff now
<james_w> jordi: ah, you're on it, great. I'll go and have lunch instead :-)
<jordi> cheers ;)
<james_w> jordi: target hardy-proposed with an NMU version number if you didn't know already.
<persia> coolbhavi: Probably best to wait for intrepid to open to merge it.
<jordi> james_w: hmm, I leave those details to yo
<jordi> I need to go now, I hope I provided enough info
<jordi> I thought a pull from Debian was possible here too
<jordi> bye
<james_w> jordi: sure, I'll subscribe, then I can tweak it.
<sistpoty|work> hi folks
<geser> Hi sistpoty|work
<sistpoty|work> hi geser
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: btw.: imho we should get the audacious-crossfade plugin fixed ASAP. whom did you talk to to get permission for libitpp?
<ScottK> I talked to slangasek as it was pre-release.  Now that we've released, I think it's up to motu-sru to decide.
<sistpoty|work> ah, I see...
<ScottK> Hardy belongs to a different batch of bureacrats now.
<persia> Is the motu-release team staying on for intrepid, with new elections mid-cycle, or planning a shuffle early-cycle?
<ScottK> It should be discussed.
 * ScottK has been pondering sending a mail to MOTU ML saying, "I'll be at UDS, is there anything for motu-release to do there?"
 * ScottK had been thinking the team should have some role all the way through and not vaporise/re-appear.
<sistpoty|work> imbrandon, jdong, TheMuso: can you give me an ACK to upload a rebuild only xmms-crossfade for bug #208666 to hardy-proposed? (mere rebuild is known to fix the problem)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 208666 in xmms-crossfade "audacious crashed with SIGSEGV in g_type_check_instance_cast()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/208666
<persia> I'd like to see motu-release help triage some of the blueprints and outline some early targets for work to be done pre DIF, although I'm not sure any of the members will have time.
<ScottK> I'd be up for some of that, but I'd like for MOTU (at a meeting) to say we have that role.
<sistpoty|work> let's put it on the agenda for tonights meeting, shall we? (at least to start the discussion there=
<persia> I don't see how motu-release identifying targets is restrictive of anyone else doing anything, or why that activity should be restricted to motu-release.
<persia> As a result, I don't think it needs a determination by MOTU.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: then i have to decide quickly if i want to be a part.  hmmm.
<persia> On the other hand, I'd think the members of motu-release would be the natural interested party.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: I'd put it the other way.  You are a part until you decide you don't want to be.  You can always deactivate yourself when you want to.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: i meant MOTU generallly, but poitn taken.
<persia> More generally, I don't see the point of waiting until there is an "authorised" team in place before doing whatever, especially if it is unlikely to break someone else's workflow.  If it's contentious, then yes, it needs discussion and agreement at a meeting.
<ScottK> persia: I don't think Universe has had release goals.
<persia> ScottK: I set some for hardy: didn't meet too many of them, but I think more of hardy builds than did for gutsy, as an example.
<ScottK> I had some for myself too.
<persia> Ah.  Mine were for other people :)
<sistpoty|work> heh, geser implemented on of mine (ghc6 transition) *g*
<sistpoty|work> one even
<ScottK> Sure, I got help with mine too.
<ScottK> At a minimum we should have a mirror to a Main release goal that says "Get X out of Main" that says "Get X out of the archive" usually about one release later.
<ScottK> Someone might look at http://ftbfs.wordpress.com/2008/04/25/pyslide-story/ and see if we need an SRU.
<persia> ScottK: That sounds perfectly reasonable.  I'd think that if you, or motu-release, or some random MOTU wanted to track those somewhere for people to push, it ought not require any specific authoirsation.  If someone wants to preserve something, it's worth discussion, but in the absence of opposition, it ought just be done.
<ScottK> persia: Agreed.  As I did for the python-xml transition in Hardy.  But if I want "Because I'm in motu-release" to have any special meaning in the discussion, it needs to be agreed.
<laga> (deprecating python-xml made me sad.)
<ScottK> laga: It was needed.  It's been largely duplicate to what was in python since 2.4.  I'm not sure what the best answer for the not duplicate parts are.
<persia> I can see that point of view.  Personally, I'd rather see self-organised teams (e.g. motu-release) take on responsibility organically, and avoid discussion until there is contention.  As an example, I think both organisers of School have done well, and others have respected their opinions about School, without there ever being any formalisation beyond self-selection.
<ScottK> I just wish we'd decided on doing that one last October than in March.
<ScottK> persia: For something that's a separate project, that's perfectly fine.
<ScottK> motu-release affects all of universe.
<ScottK> It's a bit different.
<persia> Let's have a Release-planning session at UDS, run by someone in motu-release and identify things like python-xml that would be good targets, and submit for discussion.  Unless there is objection by someone about one of the transitions, we oughtn't need to formalise anything.
<persia> Essentially, my feeling is that unless someone cares enough to ask about it, it's not worth having a rule that motu-release always wins, and if someone cares enough to object, the specific issue ought be discussed, rather than just a reference to motu-release planning.
<geser> sistpoty|work: if you wanted to meet your release goal on your own you should have told me :)
<sistpoty|work> heh
<sistpoty|work> geser: I wouldn't have been able to do that actually ;)
<ScottK> persia: Sounds generally reasonable.
<persia> ScottK: Note that if it doesn't work organically, I'm happy to support having a special blessing for motu-release identified release goals, but want to try it without as much process first, as I'd like to generally see more self-initiated things happening in MOTU.
<ScottK> Agreed.
<Hobbsee> persia: please make sure it's at a reasonable time for aussies.
<Hobbsee> if you can
 * Hobbsee would like to see yada out of the archive.
<sistpoty|work> hm... we really should start with SRUs for hardy now (even though these cannot be fixed for intrepid yet)...
<persia> Hobbsee: You're motu-release, and I'm not: you're in a better position to set the schedule for my suggested session to be run by motu-release :p
<persia> sistpoty|work: There's a bunch already processed: no reason not to push more :)
<sistpoty|work> persia: is there?
<Hobbsee> persia: sure, but i won't be at UDS
<ScottK> persia: None in Universe since release.
<persia> ScottK: all the uploads to -proposed were for main?
<sistpoty|work> persia: all but libitpp
<ScottK> persia: I've suggested to motu-sru that they relax the "Must be fixed in the development version first rule", but no word.
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: And one mythbuntu one.
<ScottK> Both uploaded before the release.
<sistpoty|work> oh, must have missed that one
<persia> Ah.  Right.  I guess it needs the SRU team to jump up and do.
<dholbach> have a great weekend everybody - enjoy the celebrations
<ScottK> Yes.  I've pointed a couple of them at it, but that's all I can do.
<sistpoty|work> cya dholbach
<persia> Hobbsee: I'm not sure the chair can't be from VoIP, but understood.  Maybe someone else will volunteer, but I'll mention that morning is better, if asked.
<Hobbsee> persia: it's mroe the fact that if it's at 4am local, i won't be there.
<persia> Hobbsee: Right.  Has to be before lunch, if I remember Sevilla correctly.
<laga> for a SRU, i should subscribe motu-sru, right?
<persia> laga: If the package is in universe, yes.
<Hobbsee> persia: something like that
<laga> done, thanks.
 * sistpoty|work gets impatient and sent a mail to -motu about SRUs :)
<sebner> huhu sistpoty|work
<sistpoty|work> hi sebner
<ScottK> superm1: Bug #218649 looks mythtv related, so would you please take a look at it.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 218649 in fusion-icon "fusion-icon crashed with SIGSEGV in XChangeProperty()" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/218649
<jdong> sistpoty|work: you got your ACK
<sistpoty|work> thanks jdong
<jdong> what was the outcome of that large discussion yesterday on SRU policy?
<persia> jdong: It awaits a decision from internal discussion amoung motu-sru
<jdong> ah
 * jdong looks at his mailbox
<superm1> ScottK, not to me.  it looks like they have a disk with an invalid partition table that is causing areas of concern
 * persia hopes for a repeat of the early SRU policy with all updates going into intrepid the day the archive opens
<ScottK> superm1: THanks.
<ScottK> I just saw myth stuff in the log and am to tired to think much further.
<ScottK> superm1: Would you be up for marking that in the bug (if you haven't already)?
<superm1> oh already did :)
<superm1> just letting you know since you probably weren't subscribed
<ScottK> Thanks.
<ScottK> I am actually (I get bugmail for most all Python packages).  Thanks.
<laga> superm1: i filed an sru for mcc
<superm1> yup
<superm1> okay good laga
<sistpoty|work> persia: I already wrote a mail to -motu, but it's currently in the moderation queue (maybe some list admin might want to whitelist my work address? *g*)
 * persia thinks that would be a good idea, and wonders if one of the listadmins is about
<CrippledCanary> I found a bug in smstools.... /var/run/smstools folder isn't recreated after reboot... How are those things usualy handled?
<james_w> CrippledCanary: via a bug report.
<CrippledCanary> made it already... thought I'd make a patch as well :)
<james_w> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/smstools/+bug/221973
<persia> And by having the program check for the existence of the file before writing to it, and generating the necessary directory if it is not present at runtime.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 221973 in smstools "smstools folder under /var/run isn't recreated after reboot" [Undecided,New]
<CrippledCanary> thats my bug
<CrippledCanary> is there a best practise on where to put those thinds... i'd guess somewhere in the init.d/smstools script
<james_w> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/smstools/+bug/135033 should be checked and fixed at the same time I guess
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 135033 in smstools "wrong ownership of /var/run/smstools" [Undecided,New]
<james_w> CrippledCanary: yep, that's exactly where it should go.
<james_w> if you can provide a patch that would be fantastic.
<CrippledCanary> will start working on it right away
<james_w> thanks
<james_w> CrippledCanary: do you know how to make a debdiff?
<CrippledCanary> yes I know
<james_w> even better :-)
<CrippledCanary> i know how to make packages to (if not to complex)
<CrippledCanary> so a attached debdiff is the prefered way to do it then
<CrippledCanary> how should I handle 135033... it will get fixed at the same time... mark as duplicate or ?
<persia> CrippledCanary: An attached debdiff with all the changes that would make for a new revision.  Right now, only SRUs are being considered, so the target ought be hardy, and it needs to go through the SRU process.
<persia> Once intrepid opens, a new revision closing all the outstanding bugs in LP would be great :)
<CrippledCanary> i don't think i have the time to do more then a patch right now... but how should i mark the other bug that will get fixed at the same time?
<james_w> persia: "target ought to be hardy", is it not hardy-proposed, or did you mean target in a looser sense?
<persia> Err,  Actually reading the bug, I suspect both are SRU worth on the basis of "completely fails to work".
<james_w> persia: yeah, I agree
<CrippledCanary> true
<ScottK> hardy-proposed
<persia> james_w: debian/changelog target is hardy.  dput target is hardy-proposed.
<persia> ScottK: in debian/changelog?
<ScottK> persia: I usually just put hardy-proposed in the changelog
<CrippledCanary> ok
<persia> Ah.  I thought we weren't supposed to do that anymore (but I haven't done an SRU in quite a while)
 * ScottK defers to the documenation
<persia> !SRU
<ubotu> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<ScottK> It's the version numbering for proposed we weren't supposed to do anymore.
<persia> The documentation seems to indicate to use release-security, but I'm sure that's unintentional.
<CrippledCanary> ok... creating a patch will have to wait until tomorow for me.... don't have time right now
<z1o> can someone go over https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/30700 please I was told to come here if I had further questions
<Hobbsee> z1o: you could always be helpful and put the patch up there yourself.
<z1o> Hobbsee: I dont have a patch the current patch should be pushed upto the upstream provider.
<Hobbsee> z1o: then...push it?
<james_w> z1o: Ubuntu hasn't modified that package, so no-one will have touched it to push it upstream.
<z1o> well that packaged does not build without out the patch.. do I have to to throught the patch to figure out what bug it fixes ?
 * Hobbsee wonders if coolbhavi has alwasy been that unhelpful on questions
<sistpoty|work> z1o: this package is directly import from debian/unstable w.o. changes (i.e. with only a new entry in debian/changelog). You might want to ask there.
<james_w> z1o: do you have a build log that shows the problem?
<z1o> james_w: my point is that its a diservice to not talk to the jade maintainer and fix the actual bugs
<james_w> z1o: yes, and I agree.
<persia> z1o: Sure, but that package has not been inspected or modified by anyone in Ubuntu, so it oughtn't be very surprising that the patch wasn't sent upstream by anyone in Ubuntu.
<z1o> I'm not sure how debian to ubuntu packages work.
<james_w> z1o: also, if the Debian revision is -47 it suggests that the upstream doesn't release very often
<persia> z1o: In most cases, Ubuntu builds the Debian source package automatically.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<sistpoty|work> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hi sistpoty|work
<z1o> persia: great but someone must be responsible for maintaining it?
<jdong> Hobbsee: yeah I'm also concerned by coolbhavi's response to that answer tracker ticket
<james_w> z1o: Neil Roeth <neil@debian.org>
<james_w> z1o: that's the Debian maintainer.
<persia> z1o: Not specifically.  As a team, the developers are responsible for all the packages, but we've about 200 developers and about 12,000 packages, so some don't get any attention.
<Hobbsee> jdong: well, the reason he got membership, apparently, because the guys didn't think they could veto it, form the loco
<persia> In most cases, we rely on the Debian maintainers, and only make changes where there is a bug that we fix, or there is some difference between Debian and Ubuntu that needs working around.
<jdong> Hobbsee: I seem to recall that his membership is primarily from his work on the answer tracker... perhaps in his quest for karma points he's gotten rushed at responding
<z1o> personally I've already put alot of time into this. it looks like I'll find what the patch fixes and post a bug to http://www.jclark.com/jade/
<jdong> Hobbsee: looking through his replies on the tracker it seems like a lot of the responses are "canned" or otherwise contextless
<Hobbsee> jdong: probably....
<Hobbsee> jdong: i doubt they have a membership revoker.  i wonder if they have a catalyser for the tracker, even.
<james_w> z1o: thankyou
<z1o> are you talking about the same question here?
<jdong> Hobbsee: "and please close this question before doing so"
<jdong> Hobbsee: it's those kinds of responses that concern me :-/
<Hobbsee> yes....
<jdong> Hobbsee: https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gcalctool/+question/30347 the filer was markedly unhappy at the remark
<z1o> anyways... thanks for the help
<Hobbsee> jdong: i guess you'd have to take it up with the CC or something
* sistpoty|work changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | MOTU Meeting tonight at 20.00 UTC in #ubuntu-meeting
<sistpoty|work> hm... I guess "tonight" is not the best word for a global community *g*
<sebner> sistpoty|work: Ã¤hm. Stupid question. what does 20 utc is in our time? xD
<persia> 19:00
<persia> Err.  18:00 (Stupid clock changing laws)
<sebner> persia: that would mean it's *now*
<jdong> sebner: use your date command :)
<persia> Oh.  Then you're not in the timezone I thought you were in :)
<jdong> for example, date -d 20:00UTC
<sebner> jdong: coooooooll
<sebner> persia: np
<sebner> grml. utc+2 :\
<sistpoty|work> sebner: hence I wrote "tonight" :P
<ogra> sebner, or date -u will give you the current UTC time
<sebner> sistpoty|work: rofl
<sebner> ogra: what great tools linux has :P
<ogra> :)
 * sistpoty|work heads home
<sistpoty|work> cya
<jdong> If you prefer *some human contact*, you can use the mailing lists, web forums, or chat with the community on Freenode IRC Channel: #ubuntu.
<jdong> is that really the best way of wording that particular sentence?
<laga> no. it should be changed to "If you prefer some human contact, take a shower and get out of your mom's basement".
<laga> SCNR
<persia> I'm not sure any of those qualify as *human* contact.  We only assume those generating the corresponding text are human.  Perhaps "Community interaction is also available from the mailing lists, web forums, or on the Freenode IRC channel #ubuntu".
<jdong> even human communication is better
<persia> Well, maybe.  Depends on how one interprets "contact".
<nxvl> do we have discount on store.ubuntu.com?
<nxvl> prices go a like 10% down when i log in
<CrippledCanary> what to do with the debian/debian-version file when adapting a package for ubuntu?
<RainCT> nxvl: uhm.. here not
<laga> why does the store force me to log in?
<laga> that's annoying.
<RainCT> here it uses my Launchpad account (with OpenID)
<laga> yes.
<laga> but why? there's no point
<RainCT> laga: well, perhaps it needs your address?
<laga> and now it forces me enter my phone number/address, after selecting "sign in now". i just want to browse the store
<asomething> ï»¿CrippledCanary: from the packaging guide: Ubuntu and Debian have slightly different package versioning schemes to avoid conflicting packages with the same source version. If a Debian package has been changed in Ubuntu, it has ubuntuX (where X is the Ubuntu revision number) appended to the end of the Debian version. So if the Debian hello 2.1.1-1 package was changed by Ubuntu, the version string would be 2.1.1-1ubuntu1. If a pa
<RainCT> asomething: I don't think that's what he means
<CrippledCanary> i knew that... and should that go into the debian/debian-version as well or should i make a "debian/ubuntu-version" as well
<RainCT> CrippledCanary: What package is that? I've never heard about a debian/debian-version file before
<asomething> ï»¿CrippledCanary: sorry didn't catch the word file there
<CrippledCanary> smstools
<laga> also, "I Do it with Ubuntu Mens T-shirt" sounds weird when you just parse "I Do it with Ubuntu Mens"
<RainCT> laga: lol
<RainCT> CrippledCanary: it's already in Ubuntu
<RainCT> CrippledCanary: (version 3.0.10-2 taken from Debian)
<CrippledCanary> i know... but there are some bugs... /var/run/smstools doesn't get recreated at reboot (and I have filed a bug)
<CrippledCanary> if I remember it correctly I should make a ubuntu1 version of it now
<RainCT> CrippledCanary: if that's fixed in -2 then you want a sync
<RainCT> !sync
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about sync - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<RainCT> (for Intrepid. fixing it in Hardy will be a bit more difficult)
<CrippledCanary> RainCT: where did u get that info?
<RainCT> CrippledCanary: which?
<CrippledCanary> RainCT: that 3.0.10-2... its only -1 in ubuntu
<jdong> RainCT: this fix sounds quite reasonable, let's open up a SRU for it
<RainCT> CrippledCanary: http://packages.debian.org/sid/smstools
<ScottK> RainCT: He's trying to make a patch for an SRU.
<RainCT> CrippledCanary: About the debian/debian-version file, I'd say just ignore it (by the way, it has been removed in 3.0.10-2).
<CrippledCanary> Is it worth doing an SRU or just wait for the next sync... but that would not get into hardy, would it?
<RainCT> CrippledCanary: Once there are repositories for Intrepid, the new version will be automatically synced (copied) there, but no, it won't get into Hardy this way.
<ScottK> CrippledCanary: My recommendation would be to go for an SRU.  All Hardy users will benifit then.
<RainCT> CrippledCanary: so yes, if the problem is serious enough you want a SRU
<CrippledCanary> it won't run at all after reboot
<CrippledCanary> thats pretty serious
 * RainCT agrees
<laga> i've got some postinst breakage in some mythtv packages which prevents upgrading if /var/lib/myth* is on NFS. is there any way to fasttrack a SRU without having to go through -proposed? the fix would consist in adding a few "|| true" statements at the end of line.
<jdong> CrippledCanary: as a member of ~motu-sru that approves SRUs, I'd say go for a SRU :)
<CrippledCanary> ok...
<slangasek> laga: short answer: no
<jdong> laga: if you give me a diff in the next hour I will be able to turn around and review it within that timeframe
<RainCT> CrippledCanary: here's the info on how to request it https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates. If you want to do it yourself check the  new revision from Debian (you can get the source from http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/s/smstools/smstools_3.0.10-2/changelog too) and if it's fixed there backport the necessary changes to Hardy's version
<jdong> laga: and from proposed to updates is simply 3 or so reports of it working
<RainCT> *oops, http://packages.debian.org/sid/smstools
<slangasek> I wouldn't expect an archive admin to agree to bypassing the -proposed step, though as jdong notes, this doesn't have to be a long process
<laga> ok.
<CrippledCanary> RainCT: Should i backport just the fix for the SRU or the whole thing
<jdong> laga: which is a pretty reasonable absolute minimum level of QA IMO :)
<jdong> CrippledCanary: what else is in the -2 revision?
<RainCT> CrippledCanary: only the absolutely necessary changes
<ScottK> CrippledCanary: Just the fix.
<RainCT> jdong: a lot of stuff
<CrippledCanary> jdong: the changelog is quite long for -2
<laga> jdong: that's a very nice offer, but i need to run now. if you're looking for motu-sru work ;), an ACK https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/221921 would be most appreciated.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 221921 in mythbuntu-control-centre "SRU: progress bar oddities break creation of diskless clients" [Undecided,New]
<jdong> CrippledCanary: let's just go for the fix
<CrippledCanary> Ok.. just the fix then
<ScottK> laga: Is that different than the one that's already in proposed?
<CrippledCanary> and what about debian/debian-version, should that get 3.0.10-1ubuntu1 to?
<laga> ScottK: martin pitt (AFAIK) declinded the one in proposed because it lacked a bug number.
<RainCT> CrippledCanary: what's the content of the file?
<CrippledCanary> 3.0.10-1
<jdong> CrippledCanary: -1 goes to -1ubuntu0.1
<laga> ScottK: so this is the same upload, just with the bug number added.
<ScottK> I see.
<CrippledCanary> ok... -1unbuntu0.1 ... havent seen that one before   thought it was -1ubuntu1
<RainCT> CrippledCanary: uhm.. I'd say yes, though I really don't know what that file is for
<RainCT> CrippledCanary: it is ubuntu1 for new revisions that get into the current development release, for SRU's its ubuntu0.1
<CrippledCanary> RainCT: Ok...
<ScottK> CrippledCanary: Yes.  In general it's ubuntu1, but you put ubuntu0.1 so that there can never be a version in the later release with that same revision.
<CrippledCanary> thanks all ... I'm sure I'll be back
<CrippledCanary> is there a best practise on how to make sure a folder under /var/run exists?
<geser> check if it's there and re-create if necessary
<jdong>  [ -d /var/run/folder ] || mkdir /var/run/folder?
<slangasek> mkdir -p it as part of an init script
<CrippledCanary> ok... as easy as that...
<slangasek> or, apparently, install -d it, as the samba init script seems to do to my surprise :)
<CrippledCanary> what i could see in smstools from debian they didn't do any of that
<slangasek> true; Debian doesn't use /var/run on tmpfs by default
<CrippledCanary> that's the case then
<slangasek> so it's still a bug in the Debian package to not handle the absence of the directory as part of the init script, but it's not a critical bug in Debian
<CrippledCanary> slangasek: exactly
<CrippledCanary> is there a way to create the neccesary folder from a full file path
<slangasek> CrippledCanary: not sure what you mean?
<CrippledCanary> there is a $PIDFILE set to /var/run/smstools/smsd.pid    is there a way to easily create the directory part of that
<CrippledCanary> a command or anything to extract the directory part of a path
<CrippledCanary> shell script isn't my strongest side :)
<slangasek> install -d -o root -g root -m 755 $(dirname $PIDFILE)
<CrippledCanary> slangasek: nice
<emgent> heya
<sistpoty> hi folks
<james_w> hi su
<james_w> oops, hi sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi james_w
<smallfoot-> Please fix the nvidia-glx-new proprietary device driver, something is wrong with Ubuntu's packaging of it. You get pink shadows. If you install it manually from nvidia.com, you don't get that bug...
<sistpoty> smallfoot-: actually I don't get pink shadows... can you report a bug please?
<sistpoty> (OTOH I don't have the newest kernel running yet)
<james_w> sistpoty: there is one already
<james_w> smallfoot-: are you subscribed to that bug report?
<sistpoty> ah, I guess I'll find out after reboot :)
<james_w> sistpoty: I don't see it either.
<smallfoot-> james_w, yes
<smallfoot-> sistpoty, already did
<smallfoot-> james_w, i've had this bug for months, and its still not fixed
<smallfoot-> it seems pretty trivial considering manually installing it from nvidia.com works
<sebner> sistpoty: working ...
<laga> smallfoot-: what's the bug number?
<sistpoty> meh... there I try to check the audacious-crossfade bug, and it doesn't segfault on amd64... grml
<james_w> smallfoot-: yes, well tracking it down is the issue, I haven't seen anyone pinpoint exactly what in the packaging breaks it.
<sistpoty> motu meeting in #ubuntu-meeting now
* sistpoty changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | MOTU Meeting NOW in #ubuntu-meeting
<smallfoot-> laga, 186382
<smallfoot-> laga, also 194851
<laga> thanks, just curious. i'm subscribed now
<RainCT> oh.. cdbs doesn't call dh_desktop?
<fta> only if you include gnome.mk or xfce.mk iirc
<RainCT> fta: ah, thanks
 * RainCT goes to fix his packages :P
<sebner> RainCT: not interested in motu-meeting? ^^
<RainCT> sebner: there is one? damn, why can't anyone announce them? xD
<geser> RainCT: it was announced here in the channel and see also the topic :)
<sebner> lol
<RainCT> ah right
<RainCT> sorry :P
<anteaya> join #ubuntu-meeting
<crimsun> something that's alarming about the entire "MOTU Apprentices"/"Ubuntu Contributing Developers" discussion is that we're slipping toward having more milestones.
<crimsun> we're heading down that slippery slope that MOTU was chartered to avoid, and that is to _reduce_ barriers to contribution regardless of distinction or nomenclature
<sistpoty> well, we cannot even find a simple thing like a name for a team... I guess I'm the worst meeting chair ever
<geser> sistpoty: the topic isn't the easiest to handle
<crimsun> honestly, we could do away with the additional team name and just give people gold stars
<crimsun> or cookies.  Or OLPC XO-1s.
<LaserJock> crimsun: well, this whole thing is the CCs fault IMO
<LaserJock> and I'm not terribly happy about it
<crimsun> can we avoid the complexity utterly and just avoid adding another team?
<crimsun> MOTU is a significant enough milestone
<LaserJock> the CC wouldn't allow it
<LaserJock> the CC said we needed a new team
<LaserJock> so there you go
<crimsun> who said the CC's decision is final?
<geser> LaserJock: wasn't it that we need a new team if the MC wants to give membership
<LaserJock> umm, they delegate the responsibility
<geser> that's how all started
<LaserJock> geser: yes, which is utterly insane, IMO
<crimsun> if the MC wants to give membership, what's wrong with, er, ubuntu-members?
<crimsun> (or ubuntu-member or whatever it currently is)
<LaserJock> crimsun: the CC didn't want that
<geser> the CC will not add many admins to ubuntu-members
<geser> and they want to see who added them / which way the member took for membership
<geser> the great plan is that granting membership is spread about several teams and the MC is one of them
<LaserJock> I don't see why the MC can't just pass along the LP id and have one of the CC add them
<LaserJock> it's pretty much a no-brainer to me
<geser> ask the CC why they want it that way
<ScottK> crimsun: I'm not sure this is really worse.  Maybe I misunderstood the rules a year ago, but I definitely thought I had to be a member before I could get MOTU, so I went to the CC and got made a member.  Here we're just making being a member without being a MOTU an option the MC has.
<crimsun> ScottK: I've never argued against that.
<crimsun> (heck, I went through what was known as "fast track" with several of the guys from the warty-hoary dev days)
<ScottK> Desipite all the sausage making we're looking at right now, all adding you can get membership from MC as well as the CC.
<crimsun> my concern is why the CC feels the need to force the creation of a separate team
<crimsun> LaserJock: and no, semantics means stuff.
<ScottK> I'm guessing it's the same reason we have ubuntu-dev and motu teams for developers.
<ScottK> No,  I don't understand that one either.
<geser> ScottK: FYI the motu meeting is still in process
<LaserJock> crimsun: I don't get it either, but I figure we can make the most of it
<ScottK> Oh.  Thanks.
<LaserJock> and provide a nice, low barrier place for people to go
<LaserJock> MOTU is a pretty high-barrier team, as it ought to be
<crimsun> no no no
<crimsun> no no
<LaserJock> so I can see the value of a middle-ground
<crimsun> argh
<crimsun> MOTU was created for a LOW barrier
<sistpoty> ScottK: you missed the good parts already... like /me writing with caps lock on on purpose in an ubuntu channel for the first time *g*
<laga> low barrier? why do i suddenly feel bad about not being a member? ;)
<ScottK> Heh.
<LaserJock> crimsun: well, the opinions of what is low and high have changed
<LaserJock> crimsun: low is the new high ;-)
<ScottK> It is low compared to core-dev.
<crimsun> no, I think Mark's intent would still stand that MOTU is a reasonable goal for everyone.
<LaserJock> well, that's Mark
 * crimsun sighs and goes back to bugs
<LaserJock> crimsun: sorry dude
<crimsun> no need to apologise.  People have differing opinions, that's all.
<slangasek> I don't
<LaserJock> crimsun: I don't think our opinions differ all that much
<LaserJock> I think probably "solutions" are where we'd differ perhaps
<LaserJock> I just don't feel like Mark's grand scheme of Universe jives with reality
<ScottK> There is a class of contributor that are people who are doing reasonable good work and are valuable contributors, but who have not demonstrated the judgement and/or technical consistency for upload rights.
<LaserJock> I like his idea, it's just not really where we're at
<ScottK> Some of these people may never be ready for MOTU, but their contribution is significant, sustained, and we wouldn't want to lose it.
<LaserJock> well, to be honest I'm not sure how much we're gonna need to worry about this stuff
<sebner> ScottK: never because of lack of time or something else?
<LaserJock> if Universe/Main distinction goes away
<LaserJock> and we have per-package uploaders
<LaserJock> I think things will be quite different
<ScottK> sebner: That too.
<slangasek> LaserJock: they'll be like Debian? :)
<ScottK> LaserJock: If ...  who knows really.
<LaserJock> true
<LaserJock> but we should have per-package uploaders soonish
<LaserJock> which may change some thoughts for "want to contribute but don't want to be a MOTU" people
<ScottK> Really?
<LaserJock> yeah, and we should be able to do our own archive admining
<ScottK> A lot of this comes down to "Should this person have root access to my development machines".
<LaserJock> although I'm not sure what the word on high *cough* RM *cough* is on that ;-)
<ScottK> Effectively all the MOTU have that.
<ScottK> Some people will never clear that barrier in my opinion.
<slangasek> LaserJock: hmm? what's this about having per-package uploaders soonish, is there some public discussion of this?
<slangasek> that seems like a sea change in the approach to Ubuntu maintenance
<LaserJock> yeah
<ScottK> LaserJock: Additionally, just because there may be LP foo coming to support such a concept, doesn't mean Ubuntu will or should embrace it.
<LaserJock> well, the LP db schema is getting changed this month
<persia> slangasek: It's the "Straw Man" that was under discussion about 5 months ago.
<LaserJock> and next month code should start going in
<LaserJock> so it's something we should look at, IMO
<LaserJock> slangasek: have you seen the Community Admin LP spec?
<slangasek> no
<ScottK> Where is this?
<LaserJock> on the super sekret LP wiki of course
<LaserJock> ;-)
<ScottK> Of course.
<LaserJock> let me grab the URL of the spec though
<LaserJock> dang it, all I get are OOPSs
<LaserJock> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/soyuz/+spec/soyuz-community-admin
<LaserJock> so MOTU will be able to do rebuilds on their own
<LaserJock> we could have an archive admin team
<persia> LaserJock: That's about component admin, not per-package uploaders.  Do you have another?
<LaserJock> k, let me find that one
<LaserJock> also we should have debdiffs on LP soon
<slangasek> right, that's about archive administration, for which it's a Good Idea to be able to include community members
<slangasek> but that's not the same thing as giving all MOTU archive admin access
<LaserJock> slangasek: I never said *all* MOTU
<LaserJock> although all MOTU will be able to do rebuilds
<LaserJock> but a team can do archive admining
<LaserJock> I wondered if MOTU Release would want/be allowed to do that
<ScottK> As usual the details are hidden.
<persia> Or maybe motu-release for some things, and motu-sru for others
<LaserJock> well, there's not pocket distinction
<LaserJock> which I asked about
 * ScottK wonders about backports and how it fits in.
<persia> ScottK: Consider that they are building a feature.  Later, we might use it.
<LaserJock> cause I thought maybe motu-sru could do -proposed and -updates and motu-release everything else
<ScottK> persia: Yes, but it's exemplary of their commitment to community involvement in their development process.
<LaserJock> also upload karma is scheduled for next month ;-)
<sistpoty> yay, karma! :)
<ScottK> Ubuntu is full of developers that think the bazaar is a better place to develop than the cathedral, but then there's this odd paradigm shift that makes it a good thing for LP.
* sistpoty changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing
<persia> ScottK: Maybe, although if LaserJock, as our REVU Liaison, is aware, I'm not sure that our surprise isn't also due to our lack of engagement.  Despite LP failings, I don't think we're a very good customer of the service.
<ScottK> persia: I think complaining the customer isn't proactive about explaining what they want to a provider is rather the opposite of the way most businesses work.
<LaserJock> well, I would think if it were most businesses we would get to even see the milestones or specs at all
<LaserJock> that we don't get to see the details is hardly surprising, if a bit annoying
<persia> ScottK: Hrm?  I'm just saying that we likely ought take greater advantage of our liaison, and discuss implementation on our side as well.
<LaserJock> *wouldn't
<ScottK> persia: Having been told my opinions on LP U/I are not credible because I think the increasing complexity of the U/I is not a good thing, I'm not thinking they are really caring at all.
<ScottK> LaserJock: True, but they usually do some market research first.  They don't expect the customer to hunt them down and explain what they want.
<persia> ScottK: Right.  I don't mean to be an LP apologist, only I don't think the answer to "LP is bad at community coordination" is "lets ignore LP", but rather "lets improve our LP liaison process, since we use LP every day".
<ScottK> persia: I don't think the burden is on our end.
<ScottK> I don't see the point in talking to a brick wall.
<LaserJock> well, I see both ends really
<LaserJock> they have always been very open and helpful to me
<LaserJock> but regular, day-to-day communication between Ubuntu developers and LP developers could be improved
<persia> ScottK: I think it's heavy, and if we can help lift a bit more, maybe this would encourage our counterparties to lift a bit more.
<LaserJock> most of the times when I've talked to LP devs they have indicated they are kinda starving for info on how users use LP
<ScottK> Alternatively, when I have cared about making LP sucking less, there is so much suckage it can be pretty consuming.
<ScottK> LaserJock: Then they shouldn't tell users their opinions aren't credible unless they agree the U/I is good.
<LaserJock> well, I can't really speak to that
<LaserJock> I've never been told my opinion was not credible
<ScottK> I have.
<ScottK> The reason it's not credible is because everyone knows CSS is better than tables.
<LaserJock> well, it depends a lot on who you talk to
<sebner> gn8 folks :)
<LaserJock> in LP, as in every community, there are more aggressive/abrasive types
<ScottK> So because the old U/I was built on a crusty infrastructure and the new one is cool, it must be better.
<LaserJock> persia: https://bugs.launchpad.net/soyuz/+bug/134456
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 134456 in soyuz "Soyuz needs package-specific uploaders" [Medium,In progress]
<ScottK> That and about the same time someone else was re-writing one of my bugs to be something different and then telling me that I needed to write a new bug about what I'd originally written the bug about.
<ScottK> I gave up.
<persia> LaserJock: Ah.  Thanks.  Personally, I think that may be as much about the restrictions for targeted core-dev as anything MOTU, but it could also be used for other things.
<LaserJock> persia: well, it's per-package uploaders
<persia> LaserJock: Yep.  Hence "Thanks" :)
<LaserJock> say for Scott Ritchie for instance?
<LaserJock> when we were considering the "if you only work on a single package should you be a MOTU" thing
<LaserJock> seems like it'd be both easier on the contributor and the MC if that was an available option
<persia> LaserJock: I was thinking more of Tim Gardner, but sure.
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> I guess I can kinda see that
<LaserJock> though presumably Canonical people will want core-dev anyway
<LaserJock> but it would allow them to get working faster in any case
<persia> Right, and having them be able to have tightly restricted upload access to main as part of core-dev without having done MOTU means they can do that.
<persia> (although it ought be just as true for any community developers interested in primarily main packages as it is for Canonical people)
<ScottK> Most people I've asked about it use typing the url as their primary method of navigating in LP.  Of course the U/I is great.
 * ScottK needs to run.
<slangasek> pff, typing.  tab-complete!
<ScottK> Typing + url history, yes.
<ScottK> See you later.
<LaserJock> persia: though it does lead to me wondering why people wouldn't just become MOTUs/Core-Devs
<LaserJock> it kinda seems like a workaround
<LaserJock> though I guess DM would seem like that too
<persia> LaserJock: That's why I picked on Tim.  He was approved as core without having been MOTU, and was given an initial voluntary restriction on packages of interest (kernel and related).  I don't know if the restriction still applies.
<LaserJock> I don't know, my brain is kinda fried right now
<persia> Essentially, MOTU would have been fairly useless for a kernel developer, from an entitlements point of view, and it would be nice to allow such people to get access to the things that interest them (once they show history of good work) without forcing them to do stuff that doesn't interest them just to get accepted.
<LaserJock> I go between "hmm, if you can be trusted to upload specific packages shouldn't you be trusted with the whole component"
<LaserJock> and "we shouldn't let people in based just on technical ability"
<LaserJock> for sure
<sistpoty> oh, geser: you're a list admin of -motu, right? there should be a mail in the queue from me... maybe it might also make sense to whitelist my work address?
<slangasek> persia: mdz has stated that experienced developers with a background in .deb packaging should feel free to apply directly to core-dev without regarding MOTU as some sort of hurdle to pass
<LaserJock> it's becoming clear that the "become a MOTU to become a Core Dev" is quite weird
<persia> Another interesting use case for per-package uploaders would be to allow Debian Maintainers to upload their packages to Ubuntu.
<sistpoty> slangasek: imo going through motu is a good thing still, as it imho has helped to bring motu and core-devs more closely together
<LaserJock> slangasek: well, frankly that sounds like mdz the CTO talking
<persia> slangasek: Sure, but Tim is an interesting precedent of what happens in that case.
<slangasek> sistpoty: well, I think I would like for there to be ways of accomplishing that which don't involve jumping through hoops? :)
<slangasek> LaserJock: I can't tell the difference between the CTO hat and the TB hat in this light ;P
<LaserJock> slangasek: "convenient to Canonical" vs "what's good for Ubuntu"
<LaserJock> he used to say that people needed to go through MOTU
<LaserJock> but once he had enough of his employees trying to go through  MOTUship it seems to have changed a bit
<sistpoty> slangasek: well, it also means s.th. like to get at least partially known with motu processes... of course there's no guarantee that the hoop will accomplish that and in an ideal world it wouldn't be needed, yes
<slangasek> LaserJock: I think not imposing artificial barriers to contribution for folks able to pass muster at the core-dev level is good for Ubuntu; what do you think?
<slangasek> (I also think the Debian NM process is broken)
<LaserJock> slangasek: I would agree pretty much
<persia> LaserJock: I have to agree that going through MOTU doesn't make sense for everyone (e.g. kernel devs, printing devs, etc.).
<LaserJock> slangasek: but I don't think that's why he's saying it, IMO
<LaserJock> persia: sure, but that's always been true
<LaserJock> I'm not arguing that it should be one way or the other
<LaserJock> I'm saying there seems to be a change in Ubuntu "policy" that was motivated by Canonical's needs
<LaserJock> not that that's particularly bad either, but it can be a tad confusing
<persia> I didn't think MOTU was ever required for core-dev, although for things like the desktop team, I think it is valuable.
<LaserJock> when I started that's the way it was
<LaserJock> they'd do "insta-MOTU" kinds of things, but you still had to be MOTU
<persia> Hmm.  There were plenty of core-devs who weren't MOTU when I started.  Perhaps the perceived policy wavered over time?
<slangasek> LaserJock: well, the opportunity to persuade him that the policy should change for /other/ reasons has long passed, so we're left with a rather non-falsifiable claim about his mental state that I can't see it benefits anyone to dwell on... :)
<slangasek> if anything, let's find the things that are *wrong* for the wrong reasons and focus on those :)
<LaserJock> well, yeah, that's true
<LaserJock> persia: for sure, seemingly wavering more with each new Canonical employee ;-)
<LaserJock> it's the hard part of having unwritten traditions
<LaserJock> people start "forgetting"
<persia> Maybe.  I think there was a drive to move towards "process" around Dapper that is again being relaxed.
<LaserJock> though it makes for a much less "bureaucratic" feel
<LaserJock> kinda yeah
<geser> sistpoty: done
<sistpoty> geser: thanks a lot :)
<sistpoty> geser: oh, and maybe you should change the pw over time.. (I've found out this afternoon, that I still know it... but of course didn't do anything there) *g*
<norsetto> g'night all
<geser> sistpoty: I just got forwarded the mail with the password for the lists when I joined MC
<geser> will talk with the MC about it
<sistpoty> geser: heh... strange enough I always forget my own passwords, but never those I know from somewhere else *g*
<geser> sistpoty: let others set your passwords :)
<sistpoty> heh
<persia> Actually, as long as you hide the resource to which the password is set, you ought be safe.
<persia> (assuming you have sufficient password-protected resources that brute-force is unlikely to be a quick solution)
<geser> good night
<sistpoty> gn8 geser
<sistpoty> hm... if I want apps from a chroot to access X, what do I have to bind mount? (currently I have /tmp /proc and /sys)
<sistpoty> oh, found it, needed to export DISPLAY
#ubuntu-motu 2008-04-26
<sistpoty> LaserJock: have an opinion to my post to -motu about SRUs done now? maybe you'd like to follow up?
<sistpoty> jdong, TheMuso, imbrandon ^^ ?
<LaserJock> sistpoty: done
<sistpoty> thanks LaserJock
<sistpoty> LaserJock: I'm not too sure if I understand your response. If the archives are open, it would be possible to upload a fix for intrepid (or otherwise sync one)?
<sistpoty> LaserJock: or do you mean that we shouldn't wait on syncs getting performed in the first bits of intrepid, due to possible delays when waiting for a fix in hardy?
<LaserJock> well, I don't want to force people to do syncs/merges before the toolchain has settled down, etc.
<LaserJock> I believe the schedule for 8.04.1 is pretty quick
<persia> Why not?  If such a sync/merge introduces some issue with the toolchain, we can fix that.  I'd rather have an unstable dev platform than have untracked critical bug fixes.
 * persia thought 8.04.1 was for October
<LaserJock> well, I'd rather get the SRU done
<persia> Why not do both?
<sistpoty> LaserJock: ah, k, that explains
<LaserJock> because honestly we're already fighting to get people to do SRUs in the first place
<slangasek> persia: July, not October
<persia> For gutsy, ScottK pushed everything into hardy the day it opened, and afterwards we followed the "fix in hardy first" rule.
<LaserJock> having them do 2 uploads rather than 1 is quite a bit
<slangasek> (eew, trying to do a point release at the same time as a regular release, shudder)
<persia> slangasek: Ah.  That matches the outstanding RC list better :)
<LaserJock> especially if there are problems testing on Intrepid, etc.
<LaserJock> I guess I would summarize my position with "let's be sane" :-)
<persia> OK.  I can see that, and as long as there's an open intrepid task, maybe it makes sense for a short time.
<slangasek> I hate being sane
<LaserJock> if MOTU SRU sees that it should be trivial to get a sync/merge in Intrepid go ahead an have that done
<LaserJock> but if I'm going to make people go through 3 weeks work to get an SRU in that could take 1 week without dealing with Intrepid
<LaserJock> I have a hard time justifying that added burden to be honest
<persia> Well, doesn't that match the normal model?  For SRUs where the issue doesn't exist in the current development release (and not do to a patch, but an API transition or something), the "fix in dev first" rule is often overlooked.
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> ssshhhh
<persia> heh
<LaserJock> you can't say that when the RM is looking ;-)
<persia> I'd think the RM would agree that it's better to not FTBFS in a stable release, even if the ABI switched back, and the old source builds in the dev release, but I may be mistaken.
<persia> s/ABI/API/
<slangasek> I will neither agree nor disagree with a statement that I can't seem to parse :-)
<sistpoty> heh, /me just wants to give people s.th. that they can work on right now *g*
 * persia seconds sistpoty: Now is the best time to get testers for SRUs for hardy.
<LaserJock> totally
<sistpoty> yeah, and /me will in a few minutes give slangasek s.th. to put through the queue :P
<sistpoty> slangasek: mind to approve xmms-crossfade from hardy-proposed? (it's a rebuild only)
<sistpoty> lol, there's a lp team canonical-smokers *g*
<wgrant> Can we avoid the SRU waiting period for upgrade failures?
<wgrant> Particularly for trivial missing Conflicts/Replaces on python-*.
<sistpoty> wgrant: well, that's motu-sru to decide imho
<slangasek> sistpoty: hrrm, why are you not listed on https://launchpad.net/~motu-sru/+members as a current member if you're asking me to approve packages through hardy-proposed? :)
<slangasek> oh, it's acked by jdong, ok :)
<sistpoty> slangasek: because I've already got an ack from them ;)
<sistpoty> heh
 * jdong grins at the connotation of "oh. jdong acked it."
<sistpoty> haha
 * sistpoty is usually quite good when it comes to buerocracy... I'm german :P
<LaserJock> sistpoty: haha
<sistpoty> thanks slangasek!
 * sistpoty goes to bed... gn8 everyone
<wgrant> Night sistpoty.
<Kafka> what is motu ?
<ScottK> Kafka: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
<ScottK> Good evening everyone.
<wgrant> Morning ScottK.
<ScottK> Re: SRUs, I personally think MOTUs should be sensible enough we don't need a motu-sru team, but it doesn't seem I'll get my wish on that.
<wgrant> ScottK: 'should' being the keyword there.
<ScottK> Yep.
<ScottK> I think it'd be fine to leave -proposed uploads open and then use peer pressure to 'encourage' people to learn better habits.
<ScottK> But that's just me.
<jdong> ScottK: I'm not so sure about that though, while reviewing the SRU queue it's taken at least one interation on average before version numbers are correctly mangled, etc
<jdong> ScottK: I personally would like easier SRU'ing too but I think that's a cultural/social mentality change rather than a process change
 * ScottK notes that one member of the MC thought it appropriate to upload untested stuff to -proposed to find out if it worked.
<ScottK> I will confess to having almost completely lost interest in doing SRUs since the new team was stood up.
<jdong> ScottK: personally I wouldn't mind a much more liberal SRU policy that just bars backwards-incompatible changes, i.e. slightly more conservative than Fedora
<jdong> i.e. I'm looking at the new KTorrent point-releases and I'm tempted to do those as SRUs
<jdong> but that'll probably raise more eyebrows than I want
<ScottK> Aren't those in Main anyway?
<jdong> ScottK: even more unfortunately, yes.
<ScottK> Are the mirrors starting to calm down yet?
<jdong> nope
<ScottK> My desktop still has my original Kubuntu install from two years ago (with Automatix - before I knew better).  Once things calm down a bit, I'm going to see how well that upgrades and maybe file some bugs/do some SRUs.
<wgrant> Bad ScottK.
<ScottK> I was new.  I didn't know better.
<wgrant> At least it's dead now.
<ScottK> Yep.
<ScottK> Is Edgy eol yet?  The 26th is the day, right?
<slangasek> the 26th, so I guess it won't be moved around until Monday :)
<wgrant> Hm, it's the 26th UTC now. I suppose Edgy is dead.
 * wgrant wonders how many security tasks it has open.
<kees> none now!
<wgrant> Haha.
<slangasek> :-)
<wgrant> Good riddance.
<jdong> lol
<wgrant> Edgy has some 129 tasks open. Ew.
<pwnguin> i wonder how much attention stuff gets after 12 months
 * ScottK deletes his edgy pbuilder chroot tarball.
<wgrant> pwnguin: SRUs: not much. Security: as much as the rest, as long as the code isn't too different.
<ScottK> Backports, not much either (people pretty much stop asking).
<wgrant> I can't imagine the type of people that want backports would be running older releases.
<pwnguin> is abiword likely to get a backport /sru?
<nxvl> ScottK: i update my system every 4/6 months :D
<jdong> wgrant: typically interest dies down in exponential decay when a new release is available
<ScottK> Speaking of which ...
<jdong> wgrant: at most requests come in for the n-1th release if the nth release is problematic
<wgrant> pwnguin: It will definitely not be SRUed to 2.6.
<wgrant> jdong: Aha.
<ScottK> slangasek: Would you be willing to put on your archive admin hat and do some backports stuff?
<jdong> pwnguin: SRU is highly unlikely, but I'd be happy to coordinate backports :)
<pwnguin> jdong: dont quote me on this, but at one point it was looking to be MIR'd
<wgrant> Can we please get *-changes to show copies between pockets?
<jdong> pwnguin: yeah I understand there was also a major update planned that missed Hardy
<jdong> pwnguin: and BTW if it's MIRed it's less likely to get SRU's :D
<wgrant> Hmmm.
<wgrant> abiword source is in main, binary are in universe.
<wgrant> *binary is
<wgrant> Or *binaries are.
<pwnguin> i dont know what happened, but someone's slowly working on a ppa for 2.6. a few users are angry, but really, abiword doesn't do release engineering that I can see
<pwnguin> i dont use it myself; im more interested in the new release of desmume
<ScottK> Phere this from Misc development news (#7):
<pwnguin> you misspelled ph33r
 * wgrant wonders how the CDBSesque debhelper 7 is.
<ScottK> debhelper v7 - In this version I've Â tried to learn some things from cdbs, and the result is a new "dh" Â command which can be used to create debian/rules files that are as short as 3 lines for many packages.
<ScottK> Apparently that's a feature goal (being CDBS like).
<pwnguin> well, if it means more people can write packages right the first time
<wgrant> ScottK: It hopefully won't be as much of a black box, though.
<ScottK> Yeah.  Of course hope isn't much of a plan.  We'll see.
<pwnguin> he seems to be a smart guy
<wgrant> He is.
<pwnguin> jdong: so SRU might be on temporary reprieve, what about backports?
<pwnguin> desmume released on the 22nd
<jdong> pwnguin: ok, who has packages so far?
<jdong> who == upstreams
<pwnguin> what?
<ScottK> Is it in Debian yet?
<pwnguin> thank you for translating
<pwnguin> looks like no
<pwnguin> unfortunately, it's a bit of pita to even get the build deps from ubuntu archives atm
<jdong> pwnguin: sorry for the unclear wording
<jdong> pwnguin: right now I will consider for hardy-backports packages that are (1) in Debian already (2) in a PPA with an implicit contract that they are to be uploaded to Intrepid
<pwnguin> so presumably the ppa would be from someone with upload priv's
<ScottK> And (as the core-dev I'm guessing he'll ask to upload it to backports) I'll add that if it's in a PPA, the packaging needs to be derived from Debian's.  Don't fork the package.  I won't upload that.
<ScottK> The best thing might be to offer to help the Debian Maintainer get his upload done sooner.
<pwnguin> thats what i was thinking
<pwnguin> debian games handles it
<ScottK> "Hi.  We're from Ubuntu and we're here to help."
<pwnguin> heh
<Hobbsee> "and wearing our bullet proof vests, just in case you were wondering"
<jdong> "May we suggest changing the background of your application to orange and brown..."
<ScottK> There's enough people on brainstorm suggesting Kubuntu do that.
 * ScottK took a little time today to hunt through brainstorm today.
<ScottK> I was honestly looking to get fired up to implement something for Intrepid.
<ScottK> The result was, yawn.
<pwnguin> make me an onscreen keyboard for gdm
<ScottK> I don't run Gnome.  Odd of me being interested in developing for it are pretty low.
<pwnguin> kubuntu uses kdm?
 * ScottK decides to catch up on BOFH.
<ScottK> Yes.
<Drezard> hey?
<LaserJock> quiet evening
<LaserJock> man, how can a calculator be so sucky?
<LaserJock> how hard can it be, honestly
<LaserJock> 2,,560.06 != 2,560.06
<Arelis> Can i post broken packages here?
<LaserJock> dang, earthquakes
<wgrant> LaserJock: How significant?
<LaserJock> 5.0 just now
<LaserJock> really shook things
<LaserJock> we've had something like 400 of > 1.0 in the last 2 months
<LaserJock> but in the last week it's been 1 or 2 you could feel ever day or so
<LaserJock> it's creeping me out
<highvoltage> LaserJock: omg
<geser> good morning
<LaserJock> highvoltage: yeah, not cool
<LaserJock> highvoltage: http://earthquake.usgs.gov/eqcenter/recenteqsus/Maps/US2/39.41.-121.-119_eqs.php
<LaserJock> that's all about 5 miles from me
<LaserJock> darn, there's another one
<LaserJock> woah, a water flume broke in the earthquake
<LaserJock> looks like a waterfall on the TV
<wgrant> Fun.
<LaserJock> alright, well I'm gonna try to get some sleep
<LaserJock> my stomach doesn't like the shaking though
<laga> :/
<Iulian> G'morning
<jpatrick> morning Iulian
<Le-Chuck_ITA> Hi there, if I have patched a source package (say rhythmbox) how can I know if it uses dpatch? Or am I wrong and dpatch does not require specific support from a package?
<Le-Chuck_ITA> forget it
<CrippledCanary> what should the target be for a hardy SRU hardy-proposed or just hardy
<Le-Chuck_ITA> hi all again, a quick question: how would you version a ppa package so that newer ubuntu versions DON'T supercede the PPA but it's still clear on which ubuntu version the ppa package is based?
<Le-Chuck_ITA> something like 0.11.5-0ubuntu7~myppa will be superceded 0.11.5-0ubuntu8
<Le-Chuck_ITA> ping :)
<emgent> heya
<Iulian> Hi emgent
<tuxmaniac> is there any way to share my packages for the current release?
<tuxmaniac> LP PPA allows uploads to only development release and not current release
<Amaranth> tuxmaniac: err, since when?
<Amaranth> tuxmaniac: I was building feisty packages during gutsy development (backports)
<tuxmaniac> Amaranth: I got this automated email. Part of which is pasted here http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/64515/
<bddebian> Heya gang
<ScottK> tuxmaniac: I'm going to guess you tried to upload to Ubuntu and not to your PPA.  That's the message you get when you do that.
<fargiolas> hey, i'm the author of gnome-mastermind, I've just solved an issue that happened with recent cairo versions (so with hardy) and made the game look really ugly. Is there a way to push this release into hardy without wait for ubuntu next release?
<fargiolas> nobody in? :(
<laga> fargiolas: you need to do a stable release update. let me get you the link
<laga> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<fargiolas> laga: do i need to first submit a bug report about the problem I've fixed and mark it as fixed?
<laga> fargiolas: no, i think you need to open a bug and leave it open. it'll be marked as fixed when it's uploaded AFAIK
<laga> but i'm not very experiencied with SRUs :/
<ScottK> fargiolas: File the bug, attach your patch, and then subscribe the motu-sru team.  One of them will let you know if they think it is appropriate for an SRU.
<tuxmaniac> ScottK: heh. true. thanks for the info. got accepted now
<tuxmaniac> :-)
<fargiolas> ScottK: thanks, does it matter if instead of the patch i attach a link to new release?
<ScottK> fargiolas: It needs to be a minimal patch to fix the problem, so yes.  We sometime do micro-release updates, but it's very rare.
<fargiolas> I'll attach both svn diff and link to release
<fargiolas> ScottK: submitted, #222580
 * fargiolas hopes everything is ok
<fargiolas> sru wiki page talks about preparing an updated package but I doubt it should be me to do this.. I'm not a ubuntu developer I don't even know where to start
<ScottK> fargiolas: The report looks appropriate.  Up to motu-sru to decide if they think it's worth a stable update.
<ScottK> fargiolas: If motu-sru approves it, then I think someone can probably be found to package the fix.
<fargiolas> ScottK: good, so it's a minor fix but since it is a game, having ugly graphical glitches is bad! let's hope sru team will agree :)
<fargiolas> ScottK: thanks for your hints
<ScottK> You're welcome.  I hope it works out.
<CrippledCanary> I have found a bug (and filed it https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/smstools/+bug/221973)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 221973 in smstools "smstools folder under /var/run isn't recreated after reboot" [Undecided,New]
<CrippledCanary> I also made a debdiff and what should I do next to get it in to a SRU
<ScottK> subsribe motu-sru to the bug.
<ScottK> subscribe even
<CrippledCanary> even... even who?
<ScottK> subscribe motu-sru to the bug.
<CrippledCanary> just did that
<ScottK> I just misspelled it the first time.
<ScottK> Then you wait for them to approve it.
<CrippledCanary> Ok...
<CrippledCanary> I know that it probably is a bit hectic these days but how long does it usually take before someone does anything with it?
<RainCT> hey
<highvoltage> hey RainCT
<RainCT> I warn you, if you ever run a packaging jam, DO NOT show the espeak! lol
<highvoltage> heh. espeak ftw
<LaserJock> hi highvoltage and RainCT
<highvoltage> howdy LaserJock
<RainCT> pers 1: "did you know that 'archive' is pronounced 'arkive'?"; pers 2: "what? really?"; pers 1: "yeh"; pers 2: "really??"; me: "Ubuntu comes with a text-to-speech installed by default. try 'espeak archive'". for the next 20 minutes you were hearing espeak's voice from everywhere xDDD
<RainCT> Hi LaserJock
<LaserJock> highvoltage: we had two more little earthquakes last night
<LaserJock> 3.somethings
<highvoltage> LaserJock: that must be nerve-wrecking. how are you guys doing there?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: any damages so far?
<LaserJock> highvoltage: not here, just rattled dishes and things
<LaserJock> at the epicenter (like 5 or so miles away) it broke some windows and some cracks in walls apparently
<slangasek> huh. where is "5 miles away" in your case?
<LaserJock> slangasek: well, http://quake.wr.usgs.gov/recenteqs/Maps/120-39.htm
<highvoltage> reno, isn't it?
<LaserJock> west Reno is where they're hitting
<slangasek> ah
<LaserJock> the 4.7 last night was a pretty good shake
<LaserJock> I think that's the largest I've been in
<LaserJock> but the really concerning part is just how many we've been having
<LaserJock> it seems like we're having a big increase in severity and frequency
<LaserJock> is intrepid open yet?
<LaserJock> seems like Hardy was open like the day after Gutsy was out the door
<smarter> LaserJock: IIRC, it was two weeks after gutsy release
<smarter> but keep an eye on http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/
<smarter> If I want to maintain a package I made in universe, can I just create a branch in code.lp.net/~myusername and link to it in a Vcs-Bzr field?
<smarter> or should I create a lp.net/<application> for every app?
<LaserJock> these are existing apps?
<smarter> yes
<LaserJock> well, either/one/ or none would work :-)
<LaserJock> it's often good to register the project on LP
<smarter> even if I'm not the project leader at all?
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> anybody can register a project
<smarter> ok
<LaserJock> smarter: but it's not required by any means
<LaserJock> you don't even have to put your bzr branch anywhere or use bzr
<smarter> yes, but I like bzr :)
<smarter> and it's the recommended way to make your bzr branch public?
<LaserJock> I don't think there's a recommended yet
<LaserJock> but it wouldn't hurt, that's for sure
<smarter> okay, thanks for your help
<jdong> *urgh* I should change that
<jdong> you can tell I haven't started up xchat in YEARS
<Iulian> Haha
 * Iulian wonders why he put that quit message.
<laga> heh
<highvoltage> jdong: what do you usually use? the irc client of the future?
<jdong> irssi :)
<highvoltage> yes, that's it
<jdong> started xchat to remind myself of the interface of chanserv.py
<jdong> I'm aiming to clone it in perl this weekend
<highvoltage> what does it do?
<highvoltage> oh, of course, d'oh!
<highvoltage> sorry, had a long day :)
<jussio1> heya all
 * jussio1 slips quassel into jdong's pc
 * Iulian is forced to use 'running on CYGWIN_NT-6.0 i686'
<Iulian> Just for a couple of days...
<highvoltage> Iulian: http://www.irssi.org/
<highvoltage> you get irssi for windows too :)
<jdong> Iulian: why not use SUA if you're running NT6?
<Iulian> highvoltage: That's what I'm using right now.
<Iulian> jdong: SUA?
<jdong> Iulian: Services for Unix Applications
<Iulian> Aww
<jdong> Iulian: it's a POSIX layer directly in the kernel
<jdong> gonna run quite a bit faster than Cygwin
<jdong> I've heard pkgsrc works with it too
 * Iulian has to do some testing with it.
 * Iulian *yawns*
<CyberMatt> question what does dpkg-genchanges: failure: cannot read files list file: No such file or directory mean
<CyberMatt> more specifically what did i do wrong
<CyberMatt> nevermind got it sorted
<guja_nebeska> Hello.
<guja_nebeska> I'd like to start with Ubuntu development. Start learning basics, and when I became experienced, than do more serious stuffs.
<guja_nebeska> Suggestions? Thank you.
<iulian> guja_nebeska: See topic.
<guja_nebeska> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing ?
<iulian> Exactly
<guja_nebeska> Any suggestions from you?
<guja_nebeska> I am totaly begginer, but willing to learn.
<LaserJock> guja_nebeska: what kinds of things would you like to do?
<LaserJock> right now we're kinda at a slow time, finished up Hardy and waiting for Intrepid to get going, but there's a lot of bug work that needs to be done
<guja_nebeska> LaserJock, well, basicly I am interested in helping Ubuntu community in any kind possible. Having in mind that I am begginer familiar with assembly and C language.
<guja_nebeska> So, what begginer can learn and start working at that point.
<guja_nebeska> If that's bug solving, than bug solving.
<guja_nebeska> I need to learn first a lot.
<guja_nebeska> But I am willing to do that.
<guja_nebeska> I have time and will.
<laga> that's great :) are you interesting in something special? lots of open source development happens because someone has a problem/need and fixes that
<guja_nebeska> Well, I am interested in hardest thing that exists. But that's job of seriously pro programmers, I suppose. :o)
<LaserJock> do you have a particular area of software you're interested in?
<LaserJock> we have something like 30-40k open bugs right now
<LaserJock> I'm sure they'd keep you busy ;-)
<guja_nebeska> Let's say I am interested in p2p programes, internet programmes at all.
<guja_nebeska> But as I said, I need to learn first about bugs, ways to solve them, etc.
<megabyte405> go find an OSS one you use, and contribute to it by fixing a bug and sending the patch to their mailing list
<LaserJock> well, we do have a P2P team I believe
<megabyte405> as in, jump right into the action, using google frequently
<sebner> LaserJock: true
<megabyte405> most development takes place upstream
<guja_nebeska> Okay. I will now go to follow the registration instructions.
<guja_nebeska> If I have some questions, I'll ask here.
<LaserJock> guja_nebeska: you might be interested in https://launchpad.net/~motu-p2p
<LaserJock> specifically https://bugs.launchpad.net/~motu-p2p/+packagebugs
<LaserJock> that might give you a launching point :-)
<guja_nebeska> LaserJock, thank you, i'll check those links right now.
<guja_nebeska> What do I need to know when fixing any bug?
<guja_nebeska> Do I need to know any specific programing language?
<LaserJock> not particularly
<LaserJock> if it's a packaging bug you just need to know packaging
<LaserJock> if it's a code bug it's good to have some programming knowledge so you can have a look at the actual bug
<guja_nebeska> Sorry now for lame questions, but need to hear that in simple language. :o)
<LaserJock> often times we're moving things between upstream (Debian or the software authors) and pulling back down fixes, etc.
<megabyte405> guja_nebeska: it depends ont he project you pick.  For instance, AbiWord is written in C++, so if you've worked with a c-like language and object-oriented programming you can handle mostof the bugs eventually :)
<LaserJock> well, what we do is take software from Debian or from the app's authors
<guja_nebeska> For example: Someone has problems with dunno, pidgin.
<LaserJock> and then we add in all the packaging "bits"
<guja_nebeska> And it sends some bug report.
<guja_nebeska> In bug report it says:
<megabyte405> guja_nebeska: then you go fix it with Pidgin, and file a bug with the distributions to request that they update their version
<guja_nebeska> That's my next question, how do I know where's the problem? Do I need to know exactly what's wrong with that part of Pidgin code and whats in conflict with Ubuntu architecture, or what?
<guja_nebeska> I mean, I can't just start fixing bug if I don't know a thing.
<LaserJock> so you need to do some testing perhaps, to verify the bug
<LaserJock> then you can forward the bug upstream
<LaserJock> or if you can fix it we can upload a fix and send it upstream
<megabyte405> guja_nebeska: the bug could be in two places - it could be an ubuntu-only thing, or it could be a problem with the upstream code (pidgin) and depending on the problem, either could be likely
<megabyte405> guja_nebeska: so if you're starting from the Ubuntu point of view, a launchpad bug, you first want to test it in another distribution, or with a manually compiled version (as opposed to the ubuntu package)
<megabyte405> if you find it's upstream, then you find/file a bug upstream, and if you feel like it, go debug it and fix it
<megabyte405> if you find it's ubuntu, then you try to figure out what might be causing the problem
<RainCT> good night
<guja_nebeska> megabyte405, and to do that, I need to be perfectly good knower of Ubuntu?
<megabyte405> in either case, the final product is a patch sent to the appropriate folks, as high up as possible (that is, if it happens on Fedora as well as Ubuntu, get that patch to Pidgin and just mention it to ubuntu)
<megabyte405> guja_nebeska: no, of course not - there is no complete expert.  You learn as you go, and such learning is easier when it's interesting to you, which is why I suggested finding an upstream project that you personally use - something interesting
<megabyte405> you can't have the whole distribution in your mind at once to fix a bug - most bugs are a lot more narrow than that (the package, the upstream source, or dependent packages)
<LaserJock> guja_nebeska: you just do what you can
<guja_nebeska> Well, I am using Hardy on 64bit Intel based Macbook.
<LaserJock> guja_nebeska: if you can't fix/figure out a bug just leave it alone
<guja_nebeska> I am going to meet with lots of problems.
<megabyte405> wouldn't imagine why
<guja_nebeska> I solved yesterday iSight camera problem.
<LaserJock> lots?
<guja_nebeska> Well, no lots, but when you are begginer, it can be hard a bit. :o)
<guja_nebeska> From dunno which reason, iSight was making problems on 64-bit intel.
<guja_nebeska> And it took me few days to figure out why.
<megabyte405> did you file a bug with your issue and how you solved it?
<jdong> megabyte405: I believe he refers to bug 185634
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 185634 in ubuntu-meta "uvcvideo: iSight firmware loading does not work" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/185634
<megabyte405> ah, well then :)
<guja_nebeska> Well, uvcvideo module was making some problem when I upgrade it from Gutsy to Hardy.
<guja_nebeska> And, you see, I didn't read that page.
<jdong> the way uvcvideo handles firmware loading changed from gutsy to hardy
<jdong> but the userland tools to finish the job didn't get into hardy
<jdong> *grumble*
<megabyte405> jdong: nice job on the quick bug pull - you remind me of a individual we have in AbiWord who I swear can search bugzilla mentally faster than I can using a browser and keyboard shortcuts :D
<megabyte405> ah, bugger - regressions suck
<jdong> megabyte405: yeah, they do. I'm all for taking as much hackery as possible out of the kernel, but it sucks macbook users now have to resort to 3rd party packages to get their camera working
<jdong> I think the best fix at this point is the fast track (grin) the isight-firmware-tools package to Intrepid and backport it
<megabyte405> jdong: yeah that's a real bugger, esp. since this is a darn nice webcam - one of the best I've personally used (which means it's better than the cheapy ones I bought or inherited)
<jdong> agreed
<LaserJock> jdong: perhaps an SRU? :-)
<jdong> LaserJock: haha "hey pitti, look away, we're about to add a hal firmware hook...."
<LaserJock> I'm pretty sure we've done worse before but it's probably not good to get into the habit ;-)
<jdong> LaserJock: at least not until we have official blessed policies regarding such matters
<jdong> LaserJock: i.e. looking at the ktorrent-kde4 3.0.1->3.0.2, I'd personally rather just import the new version
<jdong> though that won't fly well with our current policy
<LaserJock> depends on the definition of "minimal"
<LaserJock> i.e. "minimal change that makes it trivial to fix the bug" for instance ;-)
<jdong> LaserJock: minimal inconvenience to the developer ;-)
<LaserJock> exactly
<jdong> LaserJock: the current verification procedures also makes it extremely difficult to fix rare crasher bugs
<jdong> i.e. stuff that doesn't have an explicit test case
<jdong> "Start a torrent.... wait 2 to 80 hours....."
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I tend to think upstream testing of a particular upstream release should also be taken into account
<LaserJock> since often times they get more real testing done than we will
<jdong> LaserJock: indeed. And often times us doing a skim-through-svn-changesets backport means deriving a worse version than newest upstream too
<LaserJock> precisely
<LaserJock> however, I still need to figure out how to deal with the tendency to have "well, if you get the *latest* release you'll have even more bugs fixed" tendency
<LaserJock> s/tendency//
<jdong> LaserJock: well sometimes IMO following latest upstream versions is a distribution's best policy.
<jdong> LaserJock: of course there's clearly things that doesn't apply to (server stack, volatile ABI/API...)
<LaserJock> sure
<jdong> but the Fedora update policy is pretty inspiring IMO
<jdong> and we already have Backports which is somewhat chartered with the ability to implement Fedora's update policy
<jdong> I think we should try Backports as a test base for universe new-point-release style updates
<jdong> of course excluding things that would cause rev-dep ripples
<jdong> the way we do SRUs on main isn't scaling all that well to universe
<jdong> it seems like the average sentiment here is that we'd rather not fix a bug than go through the SRU procedure
<jdong> and if it's between THAT an introducing new upstream versions, IMO the latter might indeed be better
<laga> jdong: yeah. SRU has strict requirements.
<laga> and is a lot of paperwork (IMHO)
<LaserJock> I don't think the paperwork is all that much of a problem right now
<LaserJock> but some other aspects could be
<laga> LaserJock: well, getting a debdiff etc is annoying for me when I have a motu handy which can sponsor from a  bzr checkout directly. but that's a special case.
<LaserJock> well, a debdiff should be trivial
<jdong> the more I think about it, the more I think ScottK's idea with just allowing all MOTUs to upload to -proposed isn't a bad idea
<jdong> maybe we can then put a REVU-style ACK/NACK mechanism on top of that
<laga> LaserJock: it's an additional step. granted, i'm lazy.
<LaserJock> laga: why is it additional?
<jdong> laga: well QA'ing updates is important, and IMO (1) attaching a debdiff (2) getting 3 ACKs on the proposed build, are the two ESSENTIAL steps
<LaserJock> jdong: yeah, it seems to me that testing is the most important aspect
<laga> jdong: i'll agree with (2), and (1) is very convenient for anyone who reviews the ticket. i'll take back anything i've said about debdiffs then ;)
<LaserJock> I do a debdiff on virtually every upload I do
<LaserJock> just for me to check
<jdong> LaserJock: me too. If nothing else, for a final sanity check
<LaserJock> so uploading that to a bug is trivial
<jdong> and I've definitely caught mistakes from doing so
<laga> LaserJock: i usually use bzr diff, because everything i do is in bzr
<LaserJock> laga: but that isn't the same as a debdiff
<jdong> laga: well supplying a bzr diff would suffice too
<LaserJock> although it's better than nothing for sure
<jdong> laga: we're humans reviewing these things ;-)
<jdong> we can cope
<jdong> I just want to see the kinds of changes going in to make sure they are sane
<jdong> and also scan for obvious versioning or distro-targeting bugs
<laga> a debdiff will catch additional things, though. like additional files someone forgot to bzr add
<LaserJock> and stuff done in the clean rule :-)
<LaserJock> it amazing how much crap ends up in .diff.gz files from clean rules :-)
<jdong> indeed
<LaserJock> I was just looking at a SRU where the debdiff is 496KB
<jdong> lol
<LaserJock> and I think all but 4KB of that is autotools junk
<LaserJock> although it's a new upstream release
<LaserJock> so there's some little not-exactly-minimal bits
<jdong> LaserJock: I'm tempted to let most of that slide for universe
<LaserJock> but still, I'm pretty sure it's all automake 1.9 -> 1.10 stuff
<LaserJock> jdong: then have a look at bug #222580
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 222580 in gnome-mastermind "GNOME Mastermind grid is shifted to the right with new cairo releases" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/222580
<LaserJock> ;-)
<LaserJock> I wonder if people are somewhat wary of doing SRUs because it's more of a long-term commitment
<jdong> LaserJock: his diff definitely looks good
<LaserJock> like rather than just sponsoring an upload you've got probably something like a week of going through the process
<jdong> LaserJock: well my personal opinion on why people don't do SRUs is because as soon as we release one release our culture says it's "frozen" so let's go work on something new and shiny
<jdong> I don't know how to "fix" that. I don't want to suggest yet-another-new-MOTU-team.... :D
<LaserJock> I wish we had something like a developer survey where we could ask such things
<jdong> but if giving hopefuls a cookie and badge makes them fix stable bugs for us...
<jdong> :)
<LaserJock> maybe SRUs are perceived to be harder than they are?
<jdong> LaserJock: that's possible too
<LaserJock> or people have been burned in the past with a different policy?
<jdong> LaserJock: there isn't a 5-page wiki page and 1-page writeup to do for standard universe uploads
<jdong> and some of the previous SRU policies have been... retentive.
 * jdong walks down to central campus to get find a table and food
<LaserJock> I'm also wondering about the backporting of fixes
<LaserJock> we often just sync/merge, etc.
<LaserJock> much MOTU activity isn't about doing code backports
<LaserJock> that may make people hesitate
<LaserJock> packaging bug SRUs should be easy though I'd think
<crimsun> backporting fixes may not be entirely trivial
<maix> hi
<LaserJock> crimsun: exactly
<LaserJock> maix: hello
<crimsun> if they're not doing it because it's not trivial, however, that's bad.  They can always ask for assistance.
<maix> i have a package, which i downloaded from launchpad (version 6-1) and then patched it. but the question is: what version do i have to give to it in order that i always get an update if they or debian or ubuntu releases a new version
<maix> i thought: if they patch it the new version will be 6.1, if debian does it will be 6-2, if ubuntu does it will be 6-1ubuntu1; is that right?
<LaserJock> right
<maix> so i should name it 6-1ubuntu0patched1
<maix> would that work?
<LaserJock> well, there might be some other versions if it has a security fix or something like that
<maix> eg?
<LaserJock> if it had a security fix I think it'd be 6-1ubuntu0.1
<nxvl> ubuntu0patched1?
<nxvl> maix: no, it would be 6-1ubuntu1
<LaserJock> maix: it may seem weird but but 6.-1ubuntu0.0patched1 might work well
<maix> nxvl, i don't want to upload it to universe, it's just locally
<nxvl> oh ok
<crimsun> use '+'
<LaserJock> 6-1 not 6.-1 there
<nxvl> or ~
<LaserJock> yeah, that's better
<nxvl> 6-1ubuntu1~local`
<nxvl> 6-1ubuntu1~local1
<LaserJock> 6-1ubuntu0~patched1
<nxvl> or ~patched1
<maix> i've some time ago read in a manpage or a wiki or some similar stuff the rules how dpkg or apt or so determines which version is newer; but i cannot find it anymore. someone an idea?
<LaserJock> I think you'd still maybe want ubuntu0 there
<nxvl> LaserJock: actually it shoud be ubuntu1 intead of ubuntu1
<crimsun> really, updates _should_ be 6-1ubuntu0.foo
<nxvl> LaserJock: ubuntu1 > ubuntu1~patched1
<LaserJock> nxvl: yes, I know
<LaserJock> but ubuntu1~patched1 > ubuntu0 right?
<LaserJock> so you'd want ubuntu0~patched1
<crimsun> ubuntu1~patched1 sorts before ubuntu0.1, which is incorrect.
<maix> <LaserJock> if it had a security fix I think it'd be 6-1ubuntu0.1 -> but 6-1ubuntu0patched1 would be lower than that, wouldn't it?
#ubuntu-motu 2008-04-27
<nxvl> LaserJock: yep
<LaserJock> maix: dpkg --compare-versions is what you can use to check if a version is higher than another
<LaserJock> maix: you'll want to read the dpkg man page for more information on it though, it's not exactly the most user friendly
<maix> i searched there
<maix> <maix> i thought: if they patch it the new version will be 6.1, if debian does it will be 6-2, if ubuntu does it will be 6-1ubuntu1; is that right?
<maix> <LaserJock> if it had a security fix I think it'd be 6-1ubuntu0.1
<maix> -> are there other possibilities how it could be?
<LaserJock> yes
<maix> or would it be enough if i'd check them all :)
<crimsun> I would tend to use 6-1ubuntu~foo
<maix> hm that's weird ^^
<LaserJock> it could be 6-1ubuntu1
<LaserJock> or it could be 6-1ubuntu0.8.04.1
<wgrant> crimsun: ubuntu1~patched1 shouldn't sort before ubuntu0.1, should it? That looks very wrong.
<maix> LaserJock, 6-1ubuntu1 is in my list :)
<LaserJock> generally the lowest you'd see would be 6-1ubuntu0.1
<crimsun> wgrant: it doesn't, typo
<LaserJock> unless you use something like what crimsun said
<wgrant> crimsun: Phew.
<maix> and 1ubuntu0.8.... would be higher than 1ubuntu0patched, wouldn't it?
<wgrant> maix: Yep.
<LaserJock> on the other hand
<LaserJock> you could look at the probability of the package getting a security or other update
<maix> LaserJock, that dpkg --compare-versions only works with whole packages not if i specify the versions just as parameter?
<LaserJock> and decide to not worry about it
<LaserJock> maix: not, you just put version strings
<LaserJock> *no
<maix> LaserJock, i think the possibility is not very high  :)
<LaserJock> like dpkg --compare-versions 0.6-1 gt 0.6-2
<jdong> maix: dpkg --compare-versions '1.2.3' '<' '1.2.4' && echo TRUE
<maix> argh cause i got bash: 6-1ubuntu0.8.04.1: No such file or directory
<maix> but that's because of the unescaped < :)
<LaserJock> oh, I don't use <
<maix> yes, i use lt now ;)
<maix> ok,  6-1ubuntu0patched1 is lower than all the possibilities it could be :)
<maix> crimsun, and 6-1ubuntu~patched to
<maix> but the latter looks better :)
<maix> <LaserJock> you could look at the probability of the package getting a security or other update -> in fact yes, but i also asked because i'd like to know :)
<LaserJock> sure
<maix> i anyway wanted to learn about packaging and motu and that stuff :)
<LaserJock> then you're in the right place ;-)
<maix> and i learned that you all are very helpful (or just have too much time :P )
<LaserJock> maix: bit of both ;-)
<maix> *g*
<maix> after i've read some things about packaging and am able to package one you'll hear from me on revu :)
<maix> but at first: gn8 ^^
<LaserJock> maix: night
<LaserJock> does kvm work very good on non-VT procs?
<jdong> LaserJock: no it doesn't work at all
<jdong> kvm requires VT extensions
<LaserJock> it says it falls back to basically qemu
<LaserJock> in the package description anyway
<persia> LaserJock: The fallback was removed in February.  The description may need to be updated.
<LaserJock> k
<LaserJock> I just installed VirtualBox anyway
<LaserJock> not sure if it's gonna work all that well, but what the heck
<LaserJock> I'd like to set up some virtual machines for SRU testing
<LaserJock> I think for some of these I'm just gonna have to do the SRU myself
<persia> VirtualBox seems to work fine, as long as you're emulating i386.
<LaserJock> wow, I even found my dapper, feisty, and gutsy CDs
<emgent> hello people
<happinessturtle> hi, someone please rebuild audacious-crossfade :P
<jdong> happinessturtle: file a SRU bug report for it please
<persia> I thought there already was such a bug report
<happinessturtle> jdong, i already filed a bug report and subscribed uus to it :)
<happinessturtle> well, actually, i just hijacked one of the 30 or 40 reports filed ;)
<LaserJock> anybody feel like working up a pretty simple SRU for kcheckgmail?
<LaserJock> jdong: please have a look at bug #175731
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 175731 in postfix-policyd "postfix-policyd hangs at "connecting to mysql database:"" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175731
<CrippledCanary> could someone in motu-sru have a look at bug #221973
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 221973 in smstools "smstools folder under /var/run isn't recreated after reboot" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/221973
<geser> CrippledCanary: I've looked at your debdiff (I'm not from motu-sru) and it looks ok but has two minor issues
<geser> the target in debian/changelog should be "hardy-proposed" instead of "hardy"
<geser> and the automatic bug closure in Ubuntu uses "LP: xxx" instead of "Closes: xxx"
<CrippledCanary> ok... thanks
<iulian> G'morning
<guja_nebeska> Which language is gonna be more useful for future Ubuntu developer - C or Phyton?
<persia> Well, make and shell, really.
<AnAnt> Hello, if a package X depends on package Y, and I attempt to install X, which postinst will run first ? X's postinst or Y's ?
<Hobbsee> AnAnt: y's, i expect
<AnAnt> Hobbsee: thanks
<laga> hum
<laga> is the postinst run immediately after installation?
<Hobbsee> i think so
<laga> you can probably force the execution order by using the pre-depends field
<laga> Hobbsee: if packge X depends on Y, Y is not necessarily installed before X AFAIK
<AnAnt> laga: how's that ?
<wgrant> Unless there is a Pre-Depends, the order cannot be guaranteed.
<AnAnt> laga: put Y in X's Pre-Depends: field ?
<AnAnt> I see
<laga> AnAnt: it works like Depends:, you just say Pre-Depends:
<AnAnt> laga: thanks
<wgrant> Hm, actually, maybe for postinsts it is. But for preinst it definitely isn't.
<laga> i don't know. :)
<CrippledCanary> can someone have a look at bug #221973 again....
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 221973 in smstools "smstools folder under /var/run isn't recreated after reboot" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/221973
<CrippledCanary> I want to sort out as much issues as possible as soon as possible
<emgent> heya
<PeP`> greetings
<PeP`> I never know if I should install the suggested/recommended packages... and, most importantly; I don't know the difference between them either... can someone enlighten me?
<PeP`> I was advised to ask in here...
<bimberi> PeP`: http://www.debian.org/doc/FAQ/ch-pkg_basics.en.html#s-depends
<PeP`> thank you bimberi
<PeP`> and if you install the recommended packages, and these recommended ones also recommend a third set of packages... I suppose installing them would benefit to the first package...
<panda> PeP`, not necessarily
<PeP`> ok panda, I only install the first-level recommended oned anyway...
<PeP`> thanks
<rc55> Hi, I'm interested in creating a package for ziproxy, am I in the right place?
<rc55> I've tested it on hardy, and it works fine, I think other people might benefit from it
<laga> rc55: cool
<laga> !packaging
<ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
<laga> rc55: check these links ^^
<rc55> cool, reading them now
<bddebian> Heya gang
<megabyte405> hey - having persistent "Chroot problem" build errors in my ppa - anybody can take a look? https://launchpad.net/~abiword-stable/+archive/+builds?build_text=&build_state=all
<megabyte405> I know there's the issue where the first build in a new ppa will do that, but I did retry and it ddidn't work for those top two builds
<megabyte405> nvm had to retry them twice - weird
<jdong> /bin/sed: can't read /usr/lib/libgnutls.la: No such file or directory
<jdong> libtool: link: `/usr/lib/libgnutls.la' is not a valid libtool archive
<jdong> make[6]: *** [libAbiCollabXMPPUnixHandler.la] Error 1
<jdong> some of those build errors looked legit
<megabyte405> yeah, now I only have legit ones :D
<megabyte405> the ppa system was being a tad finicky before, now it's ok
<coppro> can I get help with a package I've built? I'd like someone to look it over and point out my mistakes, if you would be so kind
<persia> coppro: Best way to get a review of a package of a new source is REVU.  I'm unsure when the next REVU day will happen, but likely in a couple weeks.  Right now, most people are either taking a break or focused on fixing critical bugs in the recent release.
<coppro> okay
<coppro> thanks
<ffm> There is a package, sugar-write-activity, that cannot be installed in hardy because it depends on a nonexistent package, python-abiword. Why is it in the repos if it is unusable?
<persia> ffm: There are actually quite a few packages like that.  Take a look at the output of `apt-cache unmet -i`.  These are bugs in need of fixing, typically, and happen when packages didn't get enough testing before release.
<sebner> persia: can you confirm that intrepid archives open on 1th may?
<persia> sebner: No.  I doubt anyone can.  The archives open when they can, and are typically frozen at first while the toolchain is updated.  Watch for the intrepid-changes mailing list, and wait for most of the toolchain to have been uploaded before looking to do anything.
<persia> Personally, I'd be surprised to see much available before the 7th or 8th.
<sebner> persia: kk. just saw the intrepid release schedule on the wiki and on the first may it's "Toolchain Uploaded". Made by Martin Pitt :)
<persia> Ah.  That's more authoritative than my opinion then :)  Given that, I'd expect the archive to be available for general developer use on the 2nd or 3rd.
<sebner> persia: cool. :D next question. If we still use DaD. Can I already claim some merges for me or should it open to anybody? The next few days I have stress at school but on the weekend I would be happy to start mergin *if* the archves are open
<persia> I'm not sure of the current status of the MoM/DaD integration effort.  If DaD is up and running, you ought be able to use it.  As with either tool for any release, be sure to also check Debian to avoid merging something that will be obsolete in the next few hours.
<ffm> persia, So, what's the solution? Remove the package or add the dependency package?
<sebner> persia: yeah that's clear. just wast want to be sure that no one complains if I already claim merges for myself. (>10) ^^
<sebner> ignore "wast" xD
<ffm> persia, I don't really know if it needs that package to function, the PPA version of it (pre-hardy) installs fine without it.
<persia> ffm: If you can find a way to make it work without affecting other packages, it would be a candidate for a stable release update.  If Abiword needs to be updated, this is less likely.
<ffm> persia, What's the magic forumula from going from a "apt-get source" to a binary deb for my testing? (I've only worked with RPM building in the past)
<persia> sebner: Best to start with the merges that are the result of your last work, rather than other merges.  If you are just keeping up to date with Debian, people are unlikely to complain.
<persia> sebner: Also, during the initial merge is a good time to check to see if the merge patch would fix a bug in Debian, and be sure the appropriate Debian bug is filed.
<persia> ffm: There are two popular ones.  sbuild and pbuilder.
<persia> !sbuild
<ubotu> sbuild is a system to easily build packages in a clean schroot environment.  To get started with SBuild, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SbuildLVMHowto
<persia> !pbuilder
<ubotu> pbuilder is a system to easily build packages in a clean chroot environment. To get started with PBuilder, see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<sebner> persia: Yeah. The problem is 1) I have not that many of my merges to do 2) not worth changes 3) bringing new upstream versions to ubuntu is nice :)
<persia> sebner: You were doing lots of merges for hardy.  Did none of those packages get updated in Debian during the freezes?
<ffm> persia, merci. Which one is better IYHO?
<ffm> crimsun, hey!
<persia> Also, I think you were working on the rcbugs list.  Most of those are likely syncs now, and should be reported as such (but need investigation).
<sebner> persia: I said "not" many. Only 7-8 I think. And not all of them are worth a merge.
<persia> ffm: I like sbuild, but I also like there being competition between two tools, as I believe it gives us a better way to measure packages against policy.
<sebner> persia: yeah. of course I will check if a merge is a sync now ^^
<persia> If we all use the same tool, we are only testing compliance with a given implementation.
<ffm> persia, Hm.. I don't have LVM set up... (i've been meaning to, but I don't want to have to recopy all my data...)
<persia> sebner: Ah, right, Debian is in a release freeze now, so there might not be so many merges for intrepid as we had for hardy.
<persia> ffm: I just resized a partition to free up 20GB.  You don't have to use LVM for your entire disk.  Also, it is possible to use sbuild and schroot without VLM-snapshots, but you'll have to fiddle a bit more, and it's slower.
<sebner> persia: well. DaD shows me a lot of new upstream versions. Just not "my" pakages. That's the reason why I asked you ^^
<geser> sebner: you can take one of mine open merges if you need work, but tell me which ones, so I know I don't need to work on them
<sebner> geser: I'll check that on weekend. thx.
<sebner> geser: buh. around. 60 if I counted correctly. Great. But I'll mainly take new upstream versions. Will let you know which ones. Thanks again :D
<slangasek> persia: Debian only just entered release freeze, so there's going to be at least one round of merges...
<sebner> slangasek: can you give me a timeframe?
<slangasek> timeframe for what?
<persia> slangasek: Oh, I'm sure there will be merges, but I seem to remember the first soft freeze starting in March or so, and don't expect Maintainers to be rushing to build the volume of updated merges we saw right before FeatureFreeze for hardy.
<sebner> slangasek: the merge round
<persia> (as an added bonus, the rcbugs list for intrepid ought be more syncs and less merges)
<slangasek> sebner: not before the archive opens for intrepid, and then as long as it takes? :)
<sebner> persia: syncs are also fun. doesn't matter :)
<sebner> slangasek: ^^
<slangasek> (well, until the cutoff date, which should be in the IntrepidReleaseSchedule)
<sebner> kk
<sebner> persia: ah still a question left
<slangasek> persia: I didn't notice any real impact from the soft freeze on the rate of package changes in Debian
<sebner> persia: I have a lot of -0ubuntu1 packages. Should they stay in this state or do we want merges and syncs from debian in generel? I know that there are expections of course. but in generel ...
<persia> sebner: Between Archive Open and Debian Import Freeze, we want to get as close as possible to Debian for every package also in Debian.
<sebner> persia: great. good to know
<Kopfgeldjaeger> hi
<sebner> persia: btw. I don't want to annoy you ^^. Any progress for the new "hackers" team?
<Kopfgeldjaeger> what should i do if an application does not have an icon but needs a desktop file?
<ffm> Is the devel schedule up yet for ibex?
<persia> Between Debian Import Freeze and Feature Freeze, it's a good idea to track Debian, and if a package can be synchronised, this is always good.
<ffm> Kopfgeldjaeger, Make an icon.
<persia> After FeatureFreeze, it's mostly about backported bugfixes.
<ffm> Kopfgeldjaeger, It's bad form for it to have a .desktop with a generic icon.
<persia> sebner: See the minutes for the last MOTU Meeting (when they come out).
<sebner> persia: I attended the meeting ;)
<persia> sebner: Then you saw the determination :)
<sebner> persia: yeah. we decided the name. But when will the group be renamend and "open"
<persia> sebner: LIkely Wednesday, if not sooner.
<sebner> persia: great. Sounds stupid but I want to start my new development round with a @ubuntu.com mail adress ;)
<geser> ffm: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IntrepidReleaseSchedule
* persia changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: ï»¿https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | 8.04 is released: Let's fix any SRU-worthy bugs before the users try the package.
<sebner> effie_jayx: heya. you are pretty often on the planet. good work :)
<effie_jayx> sebner,  try to... community work / reportin / a bit of packaging... ;)
<CrippledCanary> if we are supposed to fix SRU-worty bugs perhaps someone looks at bug #221973 soon :)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 221973 in smstools "smstools folder under /var/run isn't recreated after reboot" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/221973
<sebner> persia: you are member of the MC right?
<jdong> persia is everything. at the same time :)
<sebner> geser: uhuhuh. I'll take scite. I just it very often in past :)
<sebner> jdong: hehe
<sebner> persia: you have to shout with your MOTUs. Look on DaD who is the last uploader of "rosegarden" ;)
<persia> sebner: Heh.  If you're up for it, track down the uploader by looking at the key that signed the message to hardy-changes, and complain :)
<sebner> persia: ^^. You won't?
<persia> sebner: I'm not likely to have the time soon :(
<sebner> persia: No problem. I look for the villain and you complain. You have a lot of authority ^^
<persia> sebner: For that sort of thing, no more than you.
<sebner> persia: but people know you and have respect and will be afraid to do it once more :)
<Kopfgeldjaeger> ffm: ok. gimped a gtk cube with a green check
<ffm> Kopfgeldjaeger, What package is it anyway?
<Kopfgeldjaeger> gtkhash, utility to compute hashes
<ffm> Kopfgeldjaeger, Cool.
<Kopfgeldjaeger> what would be the best way to include an icon+desktop file into a package with cdbs?
<nixternal> there are a few ways actually, check out the docs in /usr/share/doc/cdbs/
<persia> Kopfgeldjaeger: Put them in debian/ and install them with the package.install file.  Call dh_desktop and dh_icons in debian/rules.
<nixternal> if the icon/desktop file isn't included with the application, what I generally do is add the icon and the desktop file in debian/ and install from there
<nixternal> with a foo.install file
<nixternal> damn you persia! let me answer a question :p
 * persia stops answering questions
<Kopfgeldjaeger> ok. they're already in debian :) i also just found that with dh_desktop, it's called with gnome.mk.
 * nixternal goes back to the lug meeting
<nixternal> haha, you can answer questions again :)
<Kopfgeldjaeger> hmpf. dh_desktop and dh_icons are called (added gnome.mk to rules), but the desktop file and the icon arent included :/
<awmcclain> If I'm packaging a daemon, what's the best way to test my install? I can test the basics within a pbuilder environment, but getting a daemon to run is quite difficult. Any thoughts?
<RainCT> Kopfgeldjaeger: you have to install them with dh_install
<RainCT> Kopfgeldjaeger: .desktop files into usr/share/applications and icons into usr/share/pixmaps
<Kopfgeldjaeger> oh key... how should i call dh_install? just add the lines in debian/rules? a link would help
<RainCT> Kopfgeldjaeger: is there a debian/install (or debian/<packagename>.install) file?
<Kopfgeldjaeger> nope.
<RainCT> Kopfgeldjaeger: well, then create one. does the package produce only one binary package or more?
<Kopfgeldjaeger> only one
<RainCT> Kopfgeldjaeger: then you can call the file just debian/install (without the package name prefixed), and list the file to install and the destination each on one line
<RainCT> Kopfgeldjaeger: like:   debian/gtkhash.desktop usr/share/applications
<Kopfgeldjaeger> thanks. thats really clear.
<RainCT> np :)
<Kopfgeldjaeger> haaar.... uploading package the 20th time to ppa (stupid errors... like no source, intrepid not there yet, uploaded also .deb) -.-'
<Kopfgeldjaeger> ok. how can i build the source package (source only, .orig included)?
<RainCT> Kopfgeldjaeger: debuild -S -sa
<RainCT> Kopfgeldjaeger: (-sa is to include the .orig.tar.gz)
<Kopfgeldjaeger> thanks. already tried -S and -sa. but not together. whoa!
<RainCT> heh
<Kopfgeldjaeger> maan :/ ppa says md5sums dont match, but they do...
<ffm> Can someone confirm bug #219358 for me?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 219358 in sugar-write-activity "Package has unresolved dependancies" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/219358
<Lamego> yes
<Lamego> ffm, Depends: python-abiword (>= 0.6) but it is not installable
<ffm> Lamego, Thank you.
<zorglu_> q. i got a .deb installable on ubuntu, but it is closed-source. is there a way to be included in ubuntu universe/multiverse ?
<ffm> Lamego, Would you care to mark the bug such?
<Lamego> done
<pwnguin> zorglu_: well... we have progress quest, because idiots love idiotic things
<zorglu_> pwnguin: ?
<pwnguin> its a windows binary
<pwnguin> in ubuntu
<coppro> oh, thanks for remining me to start playing
 * pwnguin stabs
<zorglu_> pwnguin: i dont understand what you mean
<coppro> I think he's saying yes
<zorglu_> coppro: ok thanks :)
<pwnguin> zorglu_: if ubuntu is allowed to redistribute the binaries, and it's not terrible, it could be considered
<pwnguin> but expect opposition
<zorglu_> pwnguin: how opera and co did it ?
<pwnguin> opera's in canonical's commercial repo
<pwnguin> i dont know if they build the package by hand or if they have access to the source, but either way it's not in uni/multiverse
<zorglu_> pwnguin: ok what kind of opposition is there to go in uni/multiverse ?
<pwnguin> what sort of opposition? people who don't like closed source and dealing with closed source bugs
<zorglu_> pwnguin: the .deb is already working and comply to usual rules of .deb
<pwnguin> is there a source package?
<zorglu_> pwnguin: i could build one but i cant publish the source, no
<pwnguin> zorglu_: take a look at the pq source package
<zorglu_> pq= ?
<pwnguin> progress quest
<coppro> it's in the package 'pq'
<zorglu_> ok looking
<pwnguin> a stupid parody of PC RPG games
<coppro> pwnguin, can you look over a package I made and give me pointers, if it's not too much of an issue?
 * pwnguin isn't worth a damn at reviews yet
<coppro> it's my first ever package - I'm sure you can find something wrong
<pwnguin> im not so sure about that
<pwnguin> what's lintian say about it
<pwnguin> ?
<zorglu_> about packaging, is there a way to make a 32bit package being easily installable on a 64bit ?
<coppro> running it
<zorglu_> like autojailling or somethign
<coppro> it says tons since I upgraded to gutsy, apparently
<coppro> *hardy
<pwnguin> well fix those ;)
<coppro> how do I tell it that a file in the source package shouldn't exist in the distribution
<coppro> lintian complains about them
<crimsun> ffm: hi
<miguillo> is revu server working correctly? i uploaded a package and it doesn't show up in the new packages list
<coppro> then I get a 'dpkg-source: warning: ignoring deletion of file Patterns/Rakes/.DS_Store'
<ffm> crimsun, so, for packages with broken dependancies, we'll just remove the package from universe, right?
<crimsun> ffm: not for hardy, no.
<ffm> crimsun, not even 8.04.1?
<crimsun> ffm: no.
<ffm> crimsun, if we can fix the package so it doesn't require that dependency, does that qualify for a SRU?
<crimsun> ffm: yes
<Kopfgeldjaeger> could someone have a quick look at (there arent many changes to look at) my package for gtkhash? builds fine with hardy-ppa. i would like to see it in intrepid
<Kopfgeldjaeger> http://nicolaispohrer.dyndns.org/packaging/
<coppro> where can I find a guide to lintian errors?
<coppro> why am I getting an unkown-section universe error?
<crimsun> don't hardcode universe into debian/control:section
<crimsun> the archive-side overrides take care of that.
<coppro> oh
<coppro> so what do I put there?
<crimsun> whatever's appropriate.  Just omit universe.
<coppro> ok
<crimsun> (http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-archive.html#s-subsections)
<Kopfgeldjaeger> n8
<RainCT> miguillo: have you joined the ubuntu-universe-contributors team in Launchpad? (and if so, how much time ago?)
<RainCT> Kopfgeldjaeger: please upload to REVU if you want reviews
<miguillo> RainCT: something like 10hours ago
<RainCT> miguillo: Your key won't be on REVU yet, then. I'll start a sync now.
<miguillo> RainCT: thanks
<RainCT> miguillo: ok, you should be able to upload now
<miguillo> RainCT: my upload was accepted, do i need to do it again?
<RainCT> miguillo: yes
<panda> A blueprint is a possible future package ?
<crimsun> it possibly involves packages
<panda> thanks
<crimsun> RAOF_: would I be incorrect in presuming that hardy lacks a gnome-do-plugin-foo for banshee?
<crimsun> (I know it was committed some time ago, but I only recently began to look at Do)
<miguillo> RainCT: uploaded again, and it is not showing in new list
<soto> What is the other build system similar to pbuilder?
<jdong> sbuild?
<soto> jdong: No, I don't think that was it. I think it was Ubuntu specific.
<jdong> soto: what is it used for?
<soto> jdong: Building packages in a chroot.
<jdong> pbuilder's really the only one. There's pbuilder-dist and prevu which are frontends to builder
<jdong> and sbuild which is more similar to what the build servers use
<soto> jdong: prevu.
<jdong> ah :)
<soto> jdong: Thanks
<jdong> prevu is a frontend for pbuilder that makes the process of building backports simpler
 * jdong is the author :)
<soto> Well thanks for writing it.
<RainCT> miguillo: what package is it? tomcat6_6.0.16-0ubuntu1_source.changes?
<jdong> sure thing :)
<miguillo> RainCT: it's ok now, after reload, thanks
<soto> jdong: prevu will automatically 'install' a package in the jail so that a lter package I'm building will be able to find it right?
<coppro> how do I use dh_installman
<coppro> correctly, of course
<RainCT> coppro: listing the manpages in a debian/manpages file, for example
<jdong> soto: if you run a prevu-update after the build of the previous package, yes.
<RainCT> coppro: (and then calling dh_installman in debian/rules)
<RainCT> good night
<coppro> okay, what's the syntax for manpages?
<coppro> I need to install one file for two binaries
<coppro> okay, why is my package no longer creating orig.gz and diff.gz files?
<RainCT> coppro: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Howtos/PODManpage, for example
<coppro> that helps my man issue I think
<coppro> not my {diff,orig}.gz problem
<coppro> how do I figure out where dkpg-buildpackage thinks my original source archive is?
<RainCT> coppro: what's the name of the uncompressed directory?
<RainCT> coppro: well. if it was for example "hello-world-0.1" then the original source should be located at ../hello-world_0.1.orig.tar.gz
 * RainCT goes to bed now
<RainCT> good night all
#ubuntu-motu 2010-04-26
<debfx> I guess most debian-edu* packages should be removed as the debian-edu source package has already been removed from jaunty
<lfaraone> ScottK: re bug 527978, should I just upload it as a 0ubuntu1? (will waiting for it to land in Debian miss the freeze?)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 527978 in groundcontrol "Please sync groundcontrol 1.6-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main). [Launchpad now using openid breaks login]" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/527978
<ScottK> lfaraone: At this point I'd get it uploaded to Ubuntu.
<ScottK> debfx and ajmitch: It's not too late for removals, but we need bugs filed/subscribed to ubuntu-archive
<ajmitch> ScottK: yep, that's what I was saying
<ScottK> OK
 * ajmitch is *still* patiently waiting for build-dependecies to download before testinbuilding this package
<lfaraone> ScottK: done, https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~lfaraone/ubuntu/lucid/groundcontrol/gc1.6.5, attached to bug, will propose for merging shortly.
<ScottK> OK.
 * ScottK won't sponsor it so he can review it for the release team.
<lfaraone> ScottK: I think nhandler offered to review it.
<ScottK> OK.  Good.
<debfx> ajmitch: could you ack bug #569959 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 569959 in debian-edu-install "Please remove debian-edu-config and debian-edu-install from lucid" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/569959
<debfx> persia: thanks for sponsoring the ftbfs fixes
<persia> debfx: Thanks for creating them.  Nice to have working software.
<ajmitch> does anyone have objections to removing/blacklisting debian-edu-*? I can't really see how they're useful, but I could be wrong
<persia> stgraber: Any thoughts on that?
 * persia is of the "toss it: it's not helping" mindset, personally
<debfx> I finally figured out why reverse-build-depends doesn't work for me: I thought it uses lucid by default, the help says the default is karmic but in fact it's maverick ^^
<ScottK> debfx: Accepted your fixes.  Thanks.
 * ScottK leans in favor of removals like debian-edu stuff
<persia> debfx: It was lucid up until *very* recently, when it was switched to maverick for the next release.  Extra points for submitting a patch that changes the help to indicate "the current development release" or has the help dynamically be correct based on the source.
<ajmitch> current development release can be fetched from LP with a few lines of python, if you're prepared to depend on launchpadlib
<debfx> persia: already checked out the ubuntu-dev-tools branch :)
<ajmitch> launchpad.distributions['ubuntu'].current_series.name is what you want
<lfaraone> ScottK: what time does this have to be in the queue by?
<debfx> ajmitch: that
<ScottK> lfaraone: Sooner the better, but we have a day or two if needed.
<debfx> ajmitch: that would make r-b-d require an internet connection
<ajmitch> debfx: yes
<debfx> and it's written in perl
<ajmitch> or to store this somewhere
<lfaraone> ajmitch: I thought I had them blacklisted last release...
<lfaraone> ajmitch: (re edu)
<ajmitch> lfaraone: debian-edu-* ?
<lfaraone> ajmitch: yes.
<persia> I think u-d-t already depends on launchpadlib for some other stuff, but be nice if it used anonymous credentials to avoid needing to register credentials for yet another tool.
<ajmitch> such as doing launchpad = Launchpad.login("ubuntuwire rcbugs", "", "", EDGE_SERVICE_ROOT)
<ScottK> Should it use edge though?
<ajmitch> easy way to login anonymouly, though that code is written for karmic
<ajmitch> probably not, but it's what I was used to using
<lfaraone> I'm working on a utility to automate the updating of packaging to bzr/hg/git heads, and am planning on including it in u-d-t. I'm also intending to write a full testsuite for it, including sample repositories of each. (less than a couple KB, gzipped). Would this be accepted? (as if I didn't gzip the repos bzr would interpret them as nested git trees)
<persia> lfaraone: I think there exist several utilities that do that: check foo-buildpackage as a start.
<persia> The mr package may be even more interesting, as it's intended to work with arbitrary VCS.
<lfaraone> persia: my goal is that you can do this regardless of what VCS you use yourself for your packaging, or even if you use none at all.
<debfx> lfaraone, ajmitch: should I update the debian-edu bug to request the removal of debian-edu-*?
<persia> lfaraone: So, add a "null" module to mr :)
<persia> debfx: A new bug will be less confusing, but reference the old bug in the new bug.
<lfaraone> persia: right now it pulls the upstream changelog from the upstream commits between now and the last release and formats it as a debian changelog.
<lfaraone> persia: that's fine.
<persia> lfaraone: Please *don't* do that.  There's a reason we ship the upsteam changelog separately from the debian changelog.
<persia> You should ship both (as indicated by the various packaging guides, and supported by lintian), and you should put "New Upstream Version" when you upload a new upstream version, and only note critical changes that are especially interesting.
 * ScottK has some binary New to do thanks to debfx.
<lfaraone> persia: we're asssuming upstream lacks a changelog.
<persia> lfaraone: That's either a bad assumption, or supports poor practices on the part of upstream.  Please don7t.
<lfaraone> persia: so you're saying http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/p/pianobar/pianobar_0+git20100420.3072c5a-1/changelog is terrible practice? (for an upstream which only has snapshots)
<persia> Yes.
<persia> 1) bad of upstream to only have snapshots, 2) bad of upstream to rely only on VCS logs for changelog, rather than describing things for end-users, 3) annoying verbosity in debian/changelog that is also available in an upstream changelog (even if the package source build requires scraping it out of the upstream VCS with git shortlog)
<lfaraone> persia: According to DPM Â§ 4.4, debian/changelog "includes modifications made in the Debian package compared to the upstream one as well as other changes and updates to the package."
<lfaraone> persia: that excludes upstream changes?
<ScottK> Generally it does.
<ScottK> It's sometimes considered good to mention major changes in the package.
<persia> lfaraone: The key bit is "compared to the upstream one"
<ScottK> That's since apt-listchanges just shows the Debian changelog.
<persia> lfaraone: But that comparison only makes sense when the upstream changelog is also made available.
<ScottK> But it's just key bits, not the whole thing.
<persia> The other thing about the pianobar changelog is that it has lots of frequent uploads, which indicates either that you're spending a lot of time pushing every patch, or that upstream is highly unstable and buggy.
<lfaraone> persia: former, I've only had it crash on rare occasions. Which is why I wrote said script to automate this.
<persia> But it really deoesn't help most users to get a new downoad every day or two.
<lfaraone> I test the new upstream release for about a day, then put it up.
<persia> Most users want to have things just work, and don't want updates.
<lfaraone> persia: then they should track testing.
<lfaraone> (no?)
<persia> No.
<persia> A maintainer should make the package as close to perfect as possible, and release it.  Then focus on someting else (maybe working to make upstream perfect, maybe another package, etc.)
<lfaraone> persia: a good number of these uploads are either fixes, or new features.
<persia> When there's a new upstream release that's well tested and offers significant advantages to users, that should again be prepared with effort to make it as perfect as possible.
<debfx> persia: where should I file a package blacklist bug?
<persia> debfx: In launchpad, against the package.  Typically it's just added as a note in the package remove request.
<persia> In the rare case where we want to blacklist-but-not-remove, it gets it's own bug.
<ScottK> lfaraone: The other thing with frequent uploads is that the Debian buildd network is overloaded and behind, so by uploading very frequently you delay the transition of other packages to Testing.
<persia> lfaraone: Check with someone else, but it's very much not my style.  The complete lack of closing any bugs reported in Debian indicates that the selection of fixes and features appears more interseting to someone closely watching upstream than someone who7s just using it.
<debfx> persia: it would be a request to blacklist and remove debian-edu-*
<persia> Then again, I make a practice of packaging stuff where upstream is so stable as to appear dead to most folks, so perhaps I'm biased :)
<persia> debfx: Right.  Generally if you request removal of stuff still in debian, the archive-admins will blacklist at the same time.  It doesn't especially hurt to note it in the bug, but it may not help.  Having an extra bug just makes the archive-admins have to process more bugs.
 * micahg seems to gravitate to stuff that moves fast upstream
<ScottK> Speaking of which, where's seamonkey?
<micahg> in progress :-/
<micahg> people found a few issues
<persia> debfx: You hit a few gcc 4.4 bugs today: any idea why http://launchpadlibrarian.net/44677571/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-armel.musescore_0.9.6~beta1+dfsg-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz would be an arch-specific build failure?
<persia> (I'm not asking for a fix, just curious if it is obvious to someone else)
<debfx> persia: Typedef for double on all platforms except for those using CPUs with ARM architectures. On ARM-based platforms, qreal is a typedef for float for performance reasons.
<debfx> instead of double it should return qreal
<persia> Aha!  That directly contradicts the bit someone told me about not using floats in armel for performance reasons, but certainly explains the oddities :)
<debfx> persia: not sure why it doesn't automatically typecast float to double
<persia> Doesn't matter.  Not going to be fixed for lucid.
<micahg> ScottK: shooting for morning
<persia> When we find out what new toolchain features will be enabled on armel for maverick, we can ask about that sort of thing, although it may have to wait for a new ABI from Qt.
<ScottK> micahg: What timezone?
<micahg> ScottK: CDT
<persia> UTC-5?
<micahg> yes
<ScottK> micahg: OK.  Make it early then.  I'm flying from -0400 to -0700 tomorrow and probably need to get it done before I'm in the air.
<micahg> ScottK: what time is that?
<ScottK> micahg: Around lunch time.
<ScottK> I don't want to depend on airport wireless to get it done.
<micahg> k, well,I might end up staying up to finish then
<micahg> in which case morning in Europe
<ScottK> OK.
<micahg> ScottK: also what to do with bug
<micahg> oops
<micahg> bug 532232
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 532232 in lightning-sunbird "Please update lightning extension to version 1.0 for use with Thunderbird 3" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/532232
 * micahg seems to have a broken keypad
 * ScottK looks
<ScottK> micahg: Is it totally broken as is?
<micahg> ScottK: lightning is, sunbird isn't AFAIK
<micahg> ScottK: Thunderbird 3 requires lighning 1.0 beta 1
<ScottK> But we're just talking about updating lightning, right?
<persia> ajmitch: Still about?  bug #528957 would benefit from gilir's patch (I've tested it a fair bit, and so have some others).
<micahg> ScottK: well, it's built out of the same source, and there's more to the story
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 528957 in wesnoth "mouse button clicks not detected in windowed mode" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/528957
<ScottK> micahg: OK.
<micahg> ScottK: upstream has discontinued development on sunbird and is only developing lightning, we were thinking to only build a new lightning and a stub sunbird
<ScottK> OK.
<ajmitch> persia: still about, just been having some ssh issues :)
<ScottK> micahg: So does sunbird get removed?
<micahg> ScottK: it's too late for the ideal thing which would be to rename the source, but yes, I think sunbird would get removed
<persia> ajmitch: Sorry to hear that.  May you be blessed with high entropy input.
<ajmitch> persia: just curious why you're pinging me about it?
<ajmitch> ah, patch is against a main package
<ajmitch> I'm guessing that libsdl1.2 isn't on the CDs & it's not too late to push an upload fir it
<persia> The trick is to have it all compiled-like before the image rebuilds happen Monday UTC-7 :)
<persia> OK.  Maybe SRU then.  Alas.
<debfx> could someone please have a look and possibly ack bug #569959 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 569959 in debian-edu-install "Please remove all debian-edu-* packages from lucid" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/569959
<ajmitch> persia: it's the release team's call, I'll set it building here
 * ajmitch would really like an SSD for the laptop about now
<ajmitch> debfx: ACked
<ajmitch> I checked & debian-edu is on the blacklist, just not the other packages
<debfx> ajmitch: ok, thanks
<ajmitch> persia: to be honest, it looks like something that'll probably be SRU material, given that it's just affecting something in universe at this stage
<micahg> ScottK: does that plan sound ok for lightning?  I think we also need to update the locales or we lose all the translations
 * persia wonders why debootstrap --variant=buildd is installing exim4 in Debian
<persia> ajmitch: Fair enough.
 * persia was just reviewing "unseeded bugs" opportunities to sponsor, and that appeared, except it needs a "core" sponsor.
<ScottK> micahg: I'd like asac or someone to ack the sunbird removal, but generally, yes.
<ajmitch> ScottK: able to comment on http://launchpadlibrarian.net/44484053/libsdl1.2_1.2.14-4ubuntu2.debdiff being SRU or fixing it now?
<micahg> ScottK: k, he or chriscccoulson would be doing the uploads
<ScottK> ajmitch: SRU.  It doesn't fit the RM's criteria for post-RC Main uploads.  You can upload to -proposed now.
<ajmitch> ScottK: thanks
<ScottK> No need to wait.
<ScottK> It just won't get accepted until Thursday, modulo release team mistakes about accidentally accepting stuff in proposed (I did that once already)
 * ajmitch will change version & target release for it
<ScottK> Thanks.
<persia> Anyone want to review the (large) changes in bug #565206?  I don't know enough about the software in question to have any idea if this would be a good thing.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 565206 in scidavis "Please update to 0.2.4 as it fixes compatibility issues with qt 4.6" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/565206
 * persia thinks it needs review *before* getting an FFe reevire
<persia> s/reevire/review/
<ScottK> persia: From reading the changelog, the deprecation warnings concern me.  It does sound like the package is pretty broken at the moment and so I think a bias towards accepting is generally appropriate.
<ScottK> I can confirm that scidavis is not alone in having gotten bitten by some changes on Qt 4.6.
<persia> ScottK: Thanks.
<persia> Anyone up for testing it?  I'll enqueue it, but I'm not sure I'll hit it soon enough to do it justice and get it uploaded.
<ajmitch> how testable is it?
<persia> You'd want a dataset, and some ideas how to plot it nicely, at least.
<ScottK> geser: If you get a chance, it looks like libepc is in need of one of your GTK deprecation fixes.
<YokoZar> ScottK: got a wine1.0 package ready to upload, will followup with wine1.0-gecko, new wine1.2 and wine1.2-gecko that conflict properly, and then finally a new vst
<ScottK> OK.
<Rhonda> persia: That's on intention not in the series file - see the difference between the .in file and the one without - and the debian/branchcheck script. :)
<YokoZar> ScottK: ok, all uploads except -vst done
<ScottK> right.  YokoZar you know what time it is here, right?
<YokoZar> ScottK: Feel free to do it in the morning ;)
<ScottK> Which one needs to build before you can do vst?
<YokoZar> wine1.0
<ScottK> OK.  Let's see if I can manage to stay awake for that one.
<YokoZar> It's best if they come in a group methinks, so feel free to go to bed and do it when you're fresh ;)  (IIRC, it's about 2am there?)
<ScottK> It is.
<ScottK> I have to be up in ~4 hours, so I'll only be so fresh ....
<micahg> ScottK: progress on SM, I think the package works now, having one more person test, then working on integrating fixes back into branch
<ScottK> Great.
<ScottK> YokoZar: I let the two wine1.0 packages in.  They'll hit binary New after they build, it I'll get that in the morning.
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hey ajmitch
<imbrandon> heya dholbach
<dholbach> hey imbrandon :)
<suji11> hi
<suji11> my package IOK(Indic Onscreen Keyboard) is already in ubuntu repository, now i have to bring this to debian repository how to do that?
<suji11> i follow this link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Debian/ForUbuntuDevelopers?action=show&redirect=ContributingToDebian and made changes in "how do i do" then what should i do? again should i send that package to revu.ubuntuwire.com?
<DktrKranz> lfaraone: done
<imbrandon> suji11, the equivalent would be mentors.debian.net
<suji11> imbrandon: Thank you:)
<suji11> can i remove a package from revu.ubuntuwire.com which is unknowingly sent by me ?
<imbrandon> suji11, just archive it
<carstenh> suji11: at the first sight your package looks quite good, but there are still a few things that could be improved: 1. lintian -I complains about hyphen-used-as-minus-sign and already did when you created the package 2. people maintaining packages in debian generally have a given name and a family name and use both in their packages 3. the description should be improved, I think the debian developers reference has something about how to ...
<carstenh> ... write good descriptions
<carstenh> suji11: http://www.debian.org/doc/developers-reference/best-pkging-practices.html#bpp-pkg-synopsis
<geser> ScottK: libepc done
<suji11> imbrandon: my package IOK is now in the version of 1.3.9 but i have to update it to 1.3.10 , how to do that?
<ivoks> er...
<ivoks> any archive admins here?
<ScottK> ivoks: What's up.
<ivoks> ScottK: bug 570096
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 570096 in cluster-glue "[FFE] Please sync cluster-glue (universe) from Debian unstable (1.0.5-1)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/570096
<ivoks> ScottK: abi is broken, hell is freezing :)
<ScottK> Ah.  I can't do the actual sync for that.
 * ScottK loooks
<ivoks> we already have confirmations of problems it is causing :/
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> ivoks: See #ubuntu-devel.  That should take care of it.
<ivoks> ScottK: good night :*
<Ciemon> nigelbabu: ping?
<Ciemon> Just looking through https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReviewersTeam/GettingInvolved is it worth linking Workflow para 2 - " forward the bug and patch upstream" to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToTriage#Forwarding upstream ?
<Ciemon> I had to search for it.. say yes and I'll make the change.
<Laney> Be bold and do it!
<Ciemon> :)
<Ciemon> He can always rollit back I guess
<Laney> erm
<Laney> "If the change is significant enough to be fixed in Ubuntu, get the patch uploaded."
<Laney> what of forwarding to Debian in that case?
<Laney> hmm
<imbrandon> Ciemon: yes, make the change, was likely an oversight
<Rhonda> Is it possible to cowbuilder --create ubuntu chroots on a Debian system? What --mirror should one use for that?
<imbrandon> Rhonda: yes, and the normal ones you would use for ubuntu updates
<imbrandon> eg <cc>.archive.ubuntu.com
<Rhonda> Thanks. Hmm, now cdebootstrap tells me E: Unknown suite $everything
<Rhonda> So I think I would need to create some additional files. :)
<carstenh> debootstrap ...
<Rhonda> Hmm, but there is /usr/share/cdebootstrap/generic-ubuntu in the cdebootstrap package, makes me wonder â¦
<carstenh> dpkg -L debootstrap | grep whatyouwant | wc -l sould print 1
<imbrandon> Rhonda: yea, the debian wiki on it looks to cover the adding of suites
<imbrandon> ubuntu suites, that is
<Rhonda> Ah, /usr/share/cdebootstrap/suites :)
<Rhonda> Oh, it only goes up to intrepid.
<imbrandon> should be trivial to "backport" the needed packages from ubuntu lucid OR ( what i would recomend ) just add the needed suites manualy to the scripts
<imbrandon> just make sure if you manualy do it you record your changes etc for updates
<Rhonda> Ah, seems I need to have ubuntu-archive-keyring.gpg installed, too.
<imbrandon> yes if you dont want the gpg errors ;)
<imbrandon> Rhonda: are you doing this on unstable ?
<Rhonda> imbrandon: lenny
<imbrandon> Rhonda: ahh , you might look at the sid packages, they are likely to have newer scripts
<imbrandon> but honestly thats all they are, scripts that are basicly copy/pasted from release to release with minimal to no changes
<Rhonda> I am currently switching from cdebootstrap (lenny) to debootstrap (lenny-backports). That might be also pretty helpful. :)
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> if you run into a snag holler, its been a while since i have run debian proper but there are plenty of us arround that have and should be able to get ya threw it
<carstenh> both, debootstrap and cdebootstrap-static from sid work on lenny
<imbrandon> mostly on my dev machines i run ubuntu lts's with other ubuntu and debian chroots, so i do the opsite ;)
<Rhonda> carstenh: Sure, but I like to keep my system as clean as possible. You know that I'm a perfectionist in my approaches. :)
<imbrandon> heh, dev machine and clean ? hahahaha , i mean good luck .... just teasin
<lfaraone> ScottK: DktrKranz uploaded gc 1.6.5 to unstable 5 hours ago. Should I convert that back to a sync request?
<Rhonda> imbrandon: That's why one uses tools like cowbuilder in the first place - remember? :)
<carstenh> Rhonda: you just need to redefine "clean", I use a private partial sid mirror as excuse to install such packages on stable
 * Rhonda jumped at the sight of "1.6.5" and thought wesnoth.  %-/
<imbrandon> Rhonda: if the needed suites arent in lenny-backports you can also use ~/.* files too to "amend" the scripts
<imbrandon> its just a bit more involved in the setup
<imbrandon> not much though
<Rhonda> imbrandon: Sure, but with debootstrap from lenny-backports it at least started something, which is more than before. :)
<imbrandon> :)
<Rhonda> And I usually do a "cp -a squeeze sid" anyway because sid has issues with bootstrapping anyway, so that part isn't troubles here.
<carstenh> persia: i uploaded topgit to debian today, including the patch that you uploaded to ubuntu. if you want to tag this in ubuntu somehow ...
<imbrandon> Rhonda: yup, basicly the same concept
 * imbrandon needs to read a couple of chapters in his shiney new git book today
<imbrandon> i should probably have a debian proper vm , hum, maybe something else to put on my todo for this week
<imbrandon> anyone else excited about pbuilder-cross :) hehe
<lfaraone> imbrandon: I've always been able to get away with pbuilder-sid login, unless something requires dbus or anything odd like that.
<imbrandon> lfaraone: yea mostly it does, but for X and corner cases it good to have one arround
<imbrandon> dosnt take nothing but hdd space and thats easy to come by
<hyperair> what's pbuilder-cross?
<imbrandon> hyperair: new crossbuilder in expirimental with multistrap vs debootstrap
<hyperair> imbrandon: er. in english, please?
<hyperair> exactly how "cross" are we going?
<imbrandon> eg pbuilder-cross arm some.dsc , on a x86 machine
<hyperair> cross-arch?
<hyperair> is it something like qemubuilder?
<imbrandon> sorta
<hyperair> interesting
<hyperair> what does it use?
<imbrandon> gcc's native cross compiling ability and multistrap
<lfaraone> ScottK: now that gc1.6.5 is in debian, there's no reason to upload the 0ubuntu1 version, right?
<ScottK> lfaraone: At this point a straight upload is easier.
<lfaraone> ScottK: Huh. Are the archive admins busy handling last-minute removals, or am I missing something?
<hyperair> imbrandon: what's multistrap?
<ScottK> lfaraone: Generally they are all busy people.  Archive admin is not a full time job.  So I wouldn't assume there will be any availability to do it.
<imbrandon> hyperair: like debootstrap but for bootstraping other arches easier than traditionaly with debootstrap + apt-cross
<ScottK> lfaraone: If someone uploads -1 using requestsync, we get to ~ the same place.
<ScottK> requestsync/syncpackage
<hyperair> imbrandon: that's cool stuff. (and this is the first time i've heard of apt-cross)
<Daviey> Does that mean essentially sponsoring an upload, from Debian?
<imbrandon> iirc archive admin duties are only done like 4 out of 7 days a week and of those 4 days its "rotated" between the admins for whos "day" it is, that was the case last i looked into it more than a year ago
<Laney> it's just directly uploading a sync instead of waiting for an AA to push the button
<Daviey> ah
<ScottK> Daviey: Yes.  Essentially you take the Debian package, run syncpackage over it to get a .changes that ~ looks like it came from Debian, and upload.
<lfaraone> ScottK: okay. but you can't upload it, since you have to review it.
<ScottK> This is true.
<lfaraone> ScottK: do I need ubuntu-release approval before a motu would touch it?
<ivoks> i got waiting for approval :)
<ScottK> I suspect imbrandon will upload it.
<imbrandon> i can upload
<ScottK> lfaraone: No.  People should upload and wait for reviews in the queue.
<lfaraone> imbrandon: thanks, that'd be awesome.
<ivoks> could we prioritize this?
<ivoks> for example, i'm waiting to get approval for cluster-agents
<ivoks> cause i can not upload two other packages untill this one is built
<imbrandon> ScottK / lfaraone : is the package in question ready for upload or are we talking here in a little bit ?
<lfaraone> imbrandon: it is already in Debian.
<Daviey> ivoks: Can you not build depend on a $VERSION?
<lfaraone> imbrandon: http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/pool/main/g/groundcontrol/groundcontrol_1.6.5-1.dsc
<imbrandon> ivoks: i'm sorry i'm not familiar with what you have going
<imbrandon> lfaraone: k, i'll grab it here in justa few moments and ping ya when its uploaded ( should be less than 30 min )
<ivoks> Daviey: i could
<Daviey> ivoks: If you do that, then you should be able to fire off your two uploads; and they should just get a Dep Wait.
<nigelbabu> Ciemon: pong.  but I guess you're question is already answered :)
<lfaraone> ScottK: what was the reason syncpackage was removed from u-d-t, by the way?
<ScottK> lfaraone: Because historically we have discouraged use of things like this and adding it right before release without a lot of discussion didn't seem like a great idea.
<ScottK> BTW, it wasn't removed, it's in the source, it just doesn't get included in the binary.
<lfaraone> ScottK: ah. I'm confused: what's the harm in this if Archive Admins would just take the action based on the MOTU's request anyway?
<ivoks> Daviey: but that's not correct
<lfaraone> (I don't see why it's discouraged, that is)
<Daviey> ivoks: How so?
<ivoks> Daviey: cause new version of lucid's package B could work with karmic's package A
<ScottK> lfaraone: There's more risk of error if the package is touched manually than done via the archive.
<ivoks> Daviey: it's just that current lucid package A is broken
<ScottK> ivoks: It's accepted, FYI.
<ivoks> Daviey: so, making a hard dep on new version is wrong
<ivoks> ScottK: thank you! :)
<ivoks> ScottK: i'll have one more :/
<ScottK> YokoZar: Don't forget to file a bug for removal of the wine source package (if you didn't already).
<ScottK> OK
<lfaraone> ScottK: okay. I just think that if we had a method for MOTUs to take the action directly, it would save the AAs a lot of work. Especially since from what I can tell the AAs aren't reviewing the request.
<ScottK> lfaraone: The desired solution is a button in LP.
<lfaraone> ScottK: yes, that would be ideal.
<lfaraone> ScottK: so what we have now isn't for some oversight reason, just because we don't have the technical measures to work around this?
<Daviey> ivoks: Hmm, i've done that multiple times.. Do you have a quote from Debian policy, or similar that states it shouldn't be done?
<ivoks> Daviey: i said it isn't correct, not that there's a policy :)
<ScottK> lfaraone: Someone needs to implement the button in LP is the only reason we don't have it.
<Daviey> ivoks: Ahh!  It's a trick i've done a couple of times to ensure multiple packages get built in the correct order; therefore linking against the version i want it to.
<lfaraone> ScottK: okay. is there a bug report for that? (I might want to look into implementing it in the copious free time I'll have after Lucid and Finals)
<ScottK> Daviey: Artificially bumping version requirements is not a good idea.  I do it sometimes myself, but am careful to docment the fact that it's artificial and when it can go away.
<ScottK> lfaraone: I'm sure there is.  It'll be against soyuz.
<Daviey> ScottK: it's all in the changelog :)
<imbrandon> ScottK: is syncpackage broken atm ?
<ScottK> imbrandon: Not that I know of.
<imbrandon> ScottK: hum ok
<imbrandon> E: No credentials found for 'ubuntu-dev-tools', please see the manage-credentials manpage for help on how to create one for this consumer.
<lfaraone> ScottK: not afaict, but bug 529933 seems similar. (and one that would need unblocking before we can add the button
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 529933 in soyuz "people with upload privileges are not allowed to use syncSource" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/529933
<ScottK> I'm almost certainly not the one to be discussing LP development with.
<imbrandon> ScottK:  ~/.bin/syncpackage groundcontrol_1.6.5-1.dsc lucid
 * ScottK has no idea about it.
<imbrandon> then i get that
<imbrandon> hum hum
<ScottK> Weird.
<imbrandon> and a big fat traceback
<lfaraone> imbrandon: do you have your credentials stored?
<lfaraone> imbrandon: does "requestsync --lp hello" work?
<ScottK> imbrandon: I gather someone has "improved" the original version.
<ScottK> lfaraone: Why on earth would someone make a script require authenticated access to LP to read information?
<ScottK> Now I'm really glad I didn't include it.
<imbrandon> lfaraone: no i dont , but why should i need it
<lfaraone> ScottK: I've got no idea, but that's a problem for later :)
<Daviey> ScottK: It was probably written before LP API had anon access.
<lfaraone> imbrandon: try the original at http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/scripts/syncpackage I guess :)
<ScottK> Daviey: We've had a script that worked for years.
<lfaraone> (which does not seem to use the API)
<Daviey> ScottK: But that answers why it requires authenticated access to purely read public info.
<ScottK> imbrandon: Use this one http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/scripts/syncpackage
<ScottK> Daviey: No.  That's how.  The why is someone is an idiot.
<ScottK> That's the unimproved one
<Daviey> seems somewhat harsh. ho hum.
<Laney> Right, the LP API stuff in udt could be improved to use anon access as appropriate
<imbrandon> ScottK: http://paste.ubuntu.com/422767/
<imbrandon> from "unimproved"
<Laney> . o O ( and maybe syncpackage could be made to fallback to the old apt-cache madison way )
<ScottK> Ah.
<imbrandon> where is it getting the '2.5' ?
<ScottK> That's the a python thing
<imbrandon> ugh ok so i need to force it to use 2.5 ? or ...
<ScottK> This is the exact class of package that pitti's version didn't work with.
<ScottK> I think mine will.
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> k
<ScottK> Checking and then I'll get you the fix
<ScottK> imbrandon: http://paste.debian.net/70708/
<ScottK> With that it works.
<ScottK> Daviey: Actually I think it's not harsh at all.
<ScottK> Daviey: If you consider that my LP ID is allowed to put new code into -updates for all Ubuntu users, you might then get an idea why I think it's lunacy to give any more code rights to use it than absolutely necessary.
<Daviey> ScottK: The authors of the tools should have written in anon API access before it existed?
<ScottK> Daviey: No.  They should have kept using rmadison until it did.
<Daviey> or worse, screenscrape?
<Daviey> ScottK: ok.
<ScottK> As I said, we've had a script that worked reasonably well since before the LP API even existed.
<Daviey> ScottK: Oh aye.
<imbrandon> ScottK / lfaraone : uploaded
<ScottK> Thanks.
<ScottK> BTW, it took a long time to figure out changing only those two lines ....
<imbrandon> ScottK: heh
<imbrandon> hum manage-credentials seems a bit broken too atm
 * imbrandon looks more
<imbrandon> ugh, better things to do, but yea manage-credentials is complaining about not reading something from /tmp/
<Rhonda> Ah! Wait! â¦ erm. â¦ how can I hand cowdancer the components that it should look at? It seems to only look at "main".
<carstenh> pbuilder uses --components "main contrib non-free"
<imbrandon> lfaraone: " - Fixes to fixes" hahahah seriously ?
<Rhonda> Right, /me tries --components 'main universe' now.
<carstenh> pbuilder update --overrite-config --components ...
<lfaraone> imbrandon: I know, right? :)
<Rhonda> carstenh: I can only update if there is something. the create failed. :)
<Rhonda> And if that would be the case I'd just do sudo vim hardy/etc/apt/sources.list
<ScottK> lfaraone and imbrandon: Accepted.
<ScottK> Thanks.
<lfaraone> ScottK: thanks again.
 * Rhonda thinks she needs to set a few also affects for wesnoth-1.8 in the wesnoth bugs â¦
<callum1> hi all, packaging newbie here have hit a problem when running debuild -S hopeing someone can help me :)
<callum1> the error I am seeing can be seen here: http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/HJW3C2PM
<imbrandon> ScottK / lfaraone : ty ty
 * Rhonda hides behind persia, I fumbled with bug #109434
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 109434 in wesnoth "Installing a server for a game automatically auto-inits and runs every boot." [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/109434
<imbrandon> let me guess, someone dosent think it should
<imbrandon> when will people realize its the debian way that if you have a service/server installed its "on", this isnt redhat from 1998 where everthing under the sun was installed but off by default ;)
<joaopinto> callum1, the error is kind of obvious, you missed the "include" directive on that line
 * imbrandon stops his rant untill he reads the bug
<Rhonda> imbrandon: Many people didn't expect it for game servers indeed, yes.
<Rhonda> I tried to argument in that direction but I guess you know pushy users.
<Rhonda> Comment added about my findings.
<imbrandon> Rhonda: yea a server is a server, reguardless if its a game server or not
<Rhonda> How do I add a "also affects" for the wesnoth-1.8 (Ubuntu) package to bug #281784? I want to mark it for the wesnoth package as wontfix and for the wesnoth-1.8 package as fixed. :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 281784 in wesnoth "Remove campaign recommendations" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/281784
<Rhonda> imbrandon: No need to convince me about that argument. :)
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> i know, just touchy subject with me, since i lived though the nightmares of RH / SuSE installing postfix etc on desktop machines and then it was my job to support / secure them , ugh
<imbrandon> not fun times
<micahg> ScottK: I hope to finish Sm within the hour
<micahg> *SM2
<ScottK> micahg: OK.  You've possibly missed my window.  I've informed slangasek.
<callum1> thanks joaopinto I can see the problem in the debian rules file as it uses includes that I do not have. This is my first attempt at packaging and the bug was simply to fix a typo in the description. I didn't want to change anything in the rules file unless this was necessary. Should I be altering this?
<joaopinto> callum1, no you should not, but if you are building the package you need to install the build depends
<slytherin> callum1: You should not alter rules file. Instead install the package that satisfies the includes.
<Rhonda> \o/ - my cowbuilder chroots are there. :D
<callum1> joaopinto / slytherin : thanks sorry for asking the obvious please bear with me. The includes are include /usr/share/cli-common/cli.make include /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/debhelper.mk include /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/patchsys-quilt.mk include /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/makefile.mk. I am not sure how to get these dependancys fulfilled. :(
<slytherin> callum1: try installing cli-common-dev package
 * Laney perks up
<Laney> we usually use dh for CLI packaging these days
<callum1> slytherin: Thanks this worked :)
<Laney> callum1: you know there is already a package for tomboy-blogposter, right?
<Laney> or is that just what you're trying to build?
<imbrandon> callum1: sudo apt-get build-dep tomboy-blogposter
<callum1> Laney: yeah there is a bug in launchpad that there is a typo in the package description so just working my way through the packaging guide doc
<Laney> oh, well it looks like you changed the version incorrectly
<Laney> it should go to 0ubuntu2 not 1ubuntu1
<Laney> and I see another problem in the rules file â CC=csc should be CC=mono-csc these days
<callum1> Laney ok thanks for the heads up ill fix those
<Laney> and then you should increase the minimum version on mono-devel to >= 2.4.3
<Laney> and *then* you should come over to Debian and get the package in there :)
<simar> could anyone tell me that can i have 64bit ubuntu????
<lfaraone> simar: try asking in #ubuntu
<simar> lfaraone:  i tried bt no one reples
<Laney> this isn't the place to ask, sorry
<lfaraone> simar: well, this is for Ubuntu packaging and development.
<simar> ok  i cc
<simar> than
<micahg> ScottK: do I have time for a last local test build (40 min)?
<ScottK> micahg: Go ahead.  If I can't get airport wifi, there are other release team members that can review.  It's better to get it right.
<micahg> ScottK: ok, thanks
<slytherin> simar: yes you can have.
<slytherin> Does anyone know if packaging of XBMC was ever discussed on this channel?
<lfaraone> slytherin: search google with "site:irclogs.ubuntu.com"
<lfaraone> slytherin: answer, probably not: http://www.google.com/search?q=site:irclogs.ubuntu.com+"ubuntu-motu.txt"+xbmc
<slytherin> lfaraone: They have a PPA. So I was wondering why haven't they considered packaging for official repositories.
<_ruben> probably to keep release cycles seperate
<lfaraone> slytherin: often upstream dislikes the headaches that come with "stable" maintinence.
<slytherin> hmm
<lfaraone> slytherin: feel free to maintain it, it's FOSS after all :)
<slytherin> lfaraone: I haven't yet tried it. :-)
<callum1> hi all first time packaging... just ran pbuilder which has thrown an error AuthenticationTypes.cs(44,41): error CS0433: The imported type `System.Web.HttpUtility' is defined multiple times I have only changed the desciption of the package so not sure why this has failed
<carstenh> try building the unchanged package?
<callum1> carstenh: yeah I just followed the packaging guide as this is my first attempt at making one
<callum1> ah sorry no I changed the revision to 0ubuntu2 and im trying to build that .dsc
<carstenh> this was more a suggestion than a question. you should try to build the unchanged package. if this fails you did not break the package with your changes ;)
<callum1> :)
<callum1> ok ill give that a try just now cheers
<carstenh> :)
<callum1> ls
<callum1> carstenh: The original wont build either :(
<callum1> ok this seems to be a known issue http://udd.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu_ftbfs.cgi guess I will leave this bug alone
<callum1> :)
<carstenh> good, so you did nothing wrong :)
<callum1> Thanks for the advice that could have been a bit of a headache. I'll see if I can find something easy for a first attempt
<andol> In regards to bug #562067, I assume it's to late to have the psimedia package rebuilt before relase?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 562067 in psimedia "voice call feature, cause psi to crash" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/562067
<geser> callum1: still looking for an easy to fix package?
<callum1> geser yeah :)
<geser> look at the FTBFS of osmo
<geser> the "problem" is that it uses some deprecated GTK symbols and builds with -DGTK_DISABLE_DEPRECATED
<geser> so the fix is to build without this define
<callum1> great thanks ill have a look now
<callum1> geser: I have managed to build this package without making any changes?
<geser> hmm
<carstenh> you should talk about the ubuntu releases you use ...
<geser> callum1: did you try to build it in a lucid pbuilder?
<callum1> geser: I am on karmic at the moment
<callum1> take it this is a lucid issue?
<geser> yes
<callum1> got lucid and the dev tools on a latop at home I'll fix this tonight
<geser> callum1: if you plan to help out on Ubuntu, you should have a pbuilder (or equivalent) for the development version as all uploads go there (you don't have to run the development version on your system for this)
<callum1> geser: now you mention it that makes sense :)
<Elbrus> When I built my package (winff) lintian said that my override for embedded-zlib was unused, so I removed it. Now it got rejected by the system because of that warning. What could be going on, difference between i386 and amd64?
<Elbrus> sorry, was for #debian-mentors...
<Laney> I thought you couldn't override that one
<piju> hello
<Elbrus> Laney: you can... see: http://ftp-master.debian.org/static/lintian.tags
<imbrandon> anyone familiar with JS arround ? why does a=4;b=6;a+++b; return 10
<imbrandon> e.g. the hows the +++ intrepreted
<hyperair> in C it would be undefined afaik.
<hyperair> i'm not sure about JS
<hyperair> i just add the brackets.
<hyperair> if it returns 10, then it's (a++) + b
<hyperair> if it returns 11, then it's a + (++b)
<hyperair> i say just go to whoever wrote the code and start throwing tomatoes at him/her until he/she understands not to give people headaches with ambiguous code.
<micahg> hyperair: +1
<imbrandon> lol exactly
<imbrandon> and yea its returning 10
<hyperair> of course, sebner would prefer rotten tomatoes ;-)
 * sebner hurries into the cellar
<hyperair> hehehehe
<imbrandon> i guess i dont fully understand the a++ then , i understand the ++b increments it
 * hyperair activates the portal in the cellar and tosses tomatoes at sebner through the portal
<hyperair> imbrandon: a++ = return a and then increment.
<imbrandon> oh wait a++ incrments it too it just returns the old val
<hyperair> ++a = increment, then return a.
<imbrandon> ahhh
<imbrandon> right /duh
<sebner> hyperair: I'm not quite sure how here deserves them (except you of course)
<hyperair> yes, one is pre-decrement, one is post-decrement.
<hyperair> sebner: who is here?
<hyperair> i mean who is "here"?
<sebner> hyperair: I mean who instead of how xD
<hyperair> sebner: aah!
<hyperair> that suddenly made a lot more sense!
<hyperair> sebner: anyway i was talking about whoever wrote (a+++b). if you write anything like that i'll launch homing tomato missiles at you.
<hyperair> =p
<hyperair> well i'll just assume they have enough range to reach your physical location from here
<sebner> hyperair: ah, (a++++b) WTH?????????????
<hyperair> sebner: three pluses.
<sebner> hyperair: 4 make more sense :P
<sebner> hyperair: a++ ++b
<hyperair> sebner: er no i don't think it does...
<hyperair> sebner: you need something to join them.
<sebner> hyperair: well then it's a+ + +b
<sebner> hyperair: what's not valid?!
<persia> a++++b should return an error: a+++++b is more useful
<sebner> hyperair: you increment with ++
 * sebner agrees with persia 
<hyperair> persia: yeah, that's right. at least it's less ambiguous than a+++b
<MTecknology> Is it possible to replacve udev on an ubuntu system?
<sebner> MTecknology: I doubt it, it's a core technology
<hyperair> sebner: a++ + b or a + ++b
<hyperair> aptitude purge udev \o/
<sebner> hyperair: ah, definately needs whitespaces
<MTecknology> hyperair: :P..
<hyperair> MTecknology: ;-)
<MTecknology> hyperair: I actually want to remove initramfs-tools; I don't understand what it's purpose is..
<hyperair> MTecknology: it's used for bootstrapping the ubuntu system.
<MTecknology> hyperair: I don't have any initrd and from my understanding, that's where it fits into the boot process
<hyperair> MTecknology: i suppose. you got rid of your initrds eh..
<MTecknology> yup
 * hyperair shrugs
<hyperair> initrds are important for me at least
<MTecknology> hyperair: but now I can't remove that package because a lot of other tools, (mostly udev) depend on it
<hyperair> MTecknology: go poke the #ubuntu-kernel people. they'd probably know better =p
<MTecknology> I understand the importance of initrd; I have some systems that wouldn't boot w/o it; just on this system I don't need it
 * sebner is an end-user and happy that his system works, no idea what initrd is xD
 * hyperair mumbles something about not knowing what GAC is and hides from sebner
 * sebner fetches his rotten tomates!
<persia> MTecknology: Not having initrd is supported for some configurations, but not recommended.  Not having udev isn't supported, but theoretically feasibly if you manage all your device nodes manually: that said, it may cause some other issues (e.g. with mountall) that would receive little sympathy.
<persia> That said, this isn't the best place to ask questions: you might try #ubuntu-devel, but I suspect you'll get told to use an initrd and udev there as well.
<MTecknology> persia: I figured udev can't be removed. It was more of a random question.
<sebner> MTecknology: it seems you have to find your luck with gentoo/LFS :P
<MTecknology> sebner: .... Gentoo really doesn't give you much freedom of choice..
<MTecknology> sebner: wanna chat about that- join me in -offtopic :)
<sebner> MTecknology: I'm sorry but I have to fetch some rotten tomatoes for hyperair, besides I'm only an end-user not interested in such technical stuff ^^
 * hyperair deploys an anti-rotten-tomato shield
<MTecknology> sebner: I used Gentoo for a while and will never go back 'via choice' - They just don't let you really choose how your system is - only gives you the initial feel that you have that much control. I'll stop it there ;)
<sebner> heh
 * sebner grabs the magic stick from persia and smashes the shield of hyperair!
 * hyperair deploys another
<persia> sebner: You know, of course, now that you have the magic stick, you have accepted several responsibilities, right?
<persia> sebner: I'd recommend using it to push RCBugs today, since that was my plan.
 * hyperair laughs at sebner
<sebner> persia: I thought the magic stick is only to beat bad people :P
<iulian> Haha.
<persia> sebner: No.  The magic stick is used, with an appropriate fulcrum, to move the world.
<persia> It can also be used to move other things.  I usually used it to move developers to chase autogenerated buglists.
 * sebner used it only for evil things then xD
<persia> Don't do that :p
<sebner> persia: blame hyperair :P
<hyperair> persia: that sounds really familiar. something like... slangasek's signature =p
<hyperair> sebner: you've just admitted that beating me is evil. therefore, I must be a good person.
<hyperair> sebner: that makes you the villain =D
<ajmitch> what have I walked in on here?
<sebner> hyperair: beating = evil but beating an evil person (you) is good :P
<persia> ajmitch: early-morning rioters, it seems.
<ajmitch> how worrying
 * hyperair nominates sebner as the king of contradictions.
<ajmitch> why aren't they fixing bugs?
<sebner> persia: /evening here though
<hyperair> it's early morning here. how did you guess?
<hyperair> like 3AM
<persia> sebner: Not in NZ
<ajmitch> because we know what part of the world you're in?
<sebner> ajmitch: persia knows :P
 * hyperair isn't in NZ, though.
<MTecknology> sebner: You want to review a package for me?
 * ajmitch thinks it's far too early to be up & getting ready for work
<sebner> MTecknology: what kind of package? I have time in ~1 hour
<MTecknology> sebner: I have a question about packaging with multiple licenses too
<sebner> MTecknology: general packaging questions are best asked /here
<hyperair> ajmitch: you're right, it's still before bedtime =p
<sebner> hyperair: sleep is for the weak! cit. ScottK
<MTecknology> sebner: I was looking into packaging TrueCrypt more and also wanted your opinion on just rebranding the whole thing for multiverse
<MTecknology> sebner: I'm just saying.. ya know... you have the magic stick now :P
 * sebner takes a deep breath, runs slowly, faster faster FAAAAAASSTER! and throws is back at persia 
 * sebner runs in a corner and hides
 * iulian wanted to package truecrypt ages ago but gave up.
<ajmitch> sebner: chicken
<hyperair> hehehehehe
<hyperair> iulian: you and everyone other MOTU who uses truecrypt
<sebner> ajmitch: a fast chicken lives longer :P
<ajmitch> truecrypt is one of those nice-to-have but hard to get right packages, I think
<iulian> MTecknology: IIRC, there is a thread about it on debian-legal.
<hyperair> we need one of those quotegrab bots here
<hyperair> that was epic.
<hyperair> "a fast chicken lives longer"
 * ajmitch stabs requestsync & launchpad
<hyperair> ajmitch: syncpackage
<ajmitch> E: The versions in Debian and Ubuntu are the same already (0.9~beta2-3). Aborting.
<ajmitch> lies!
<Laney> you can override that can't you?
<ajmitch> Laney: still frustrating
<hyperair> i think you can't. because requestsync is always smarter than you are ;-)
<Laney> -C
<Laney> it's because LP's Debian import is slow :(
<MTecknology> iulian: ya, I think the end result was something like it's just not possible to package it - either that or just not worth it
<hyperair> the best part is that if you'er in a region of the world where accessing launchpad sucks badly, you have to wait something like 15minutes for requestsync to come back and tell you "oh hey i can't do it after all"
<ajmitch> Laney: glacial, you mean
<iulian> MTecknology: I honestly cannot remember the reason.
 * iulian goes back to study now.
 * hyperair remembers saying that he was giong back to study, and really does this time
<ajmitch> hyperair: I found that it wanted to look up packages.debian.org via ipv6 first, and timed out on each ipv6 address...
<MTecknology> iulian: their 'open/free' license isn't really free
<ajmitch> the problem is in python, not requestsync though
<hyperair> T_T i build up my resolve to get back to studying and someone pings me.
<hyperair> ajmitch: yeah that suck.s
<ajmitch> hyperair: you're not allowed to study
<hyperair> sucks*
<iulian> hyperair: Shh.  I'm really going if you stop highlighting me. :)
<iulian> MTecknology: Indeed.
<hyperair> iulian: i didn't!
<iulian> That's true.
<hyperair> and stop highlighting me, iulian ;-)
<ajmitch> iulian: stop bugging hyperair! :)
<hyperair> ajmitch: you too =p
 * hyperair kills notify-osd and replaces it with a no-op shell script
<MTecknology> If I have initramfs-tools installed, does it really do anything to the boot process or is it mostly there for use by initrd?
<ajmitch> that's no fun
<MTecknology> meh - ignore the question
<lfaraone> imbrandon sponsored bug 301190 to {intrepid, karmic, jaunty}-proposed two days ago but I can't see the upload reflected on LP. Are they stuck in a queue somewhere?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 301190 in etoys "etoys does not launch" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/301190
<imbrandon> lfaraone: likely untill after the release goes out, i got the waiting for approval emails
<iulian> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+queue?queue_state=1&queue_text=
<imbrandon> Script panel is disabled
<imbrandon> mt
<imbrandon> ahh yea its in the queue
<imbrandon> lfaraone: ^^
<arand> The directory of the orig.tar.gz is required to follow a naming scheme right? (name+version less the debian/ubuntu bit).
<persia> arand: Not at all.  It can be anything.
<arand> persia: Ok... well I think I'll go with the norm either way..
<arand> Since I don't think I've seen any packages that don't...
<persia> arand: Best practice is to have it be however upstream did it.  If you're upstream, package-version is nice.
<persia> dpkg will *always* unpack to package-version, regardless of the way the orig.tar.gz is constructed internally.
<arand> persia: Ah, that is nice.
<imbrandon> arand: yea if your not upstream dont repack the tar for that
<imbrandon> please
<arand> imbrandon: Ok, this is just some playing about for a PPA, but I'll keep it in mind.
<imbrandon> arand: :) yup , no worries, just thought i would mention that repacking an upstream tar is a last resort and if you do you need to provide a way to recreate the exact same tar via get-orig-source in debian rules etc, generaly its a bad idea unless you need to do it for dfsg or something
<LeLutin_> hello, I'm currently trying to make a .deb package for some project I'm coding. I was wondering how the "debian/watch" file worked, and if anyone know if I can use a URL from Github for tracking the automatically generated tarballs
<Laney> look into something called githubredir
<LeLutin_> Laney: great, thanks
<imbrandon> ScottK: can you do archive removals ?
<piju> how long it takes my pkg to appear on PPA after uploaded ?
<persia> piju: We don't much do PPAs here (we focus on Ubuntu itself).  You might ask in #launchpad.
<persia> imbrandon: Needs shell access: best to just get it on the subscribed list.
<ubuntujenkins> I am part of the ubuntu-manual team and the packages in lucid don't have evrything we want (i personally don't know what). The team would like to set up a personal ppa with the stuff we need as we are getting people dispite our note on not installing the packages. basically I would like to build the packages with everything that is in the current texlive source. The readmes in the debian svn branch are usefull but I
<ubuntujenkins>  can't work out what specifies what parts of the texlive source are pulled in.
<persia> ubuntujenkins: I'm not sure I understand your question.  Firstly, I suggest you want to know what you want to change before you start changing it.  Secondly, we don't really support PPAs here.  Those aside, what are you trying to do, or what is your specific issue?
<ubuntujenkins> persia: I would like to package all of the current source. the way the debian packages are set up is that they only package some of the source, but i can't work out where this is specified and was wondering if any one knows anything about it?
#ubuntu-motu 2010-04-27
<persia> ubuntujenkins: The first step is usually to check for a get-orig-source rule in debian/rules or debian/README.source
<persia> ubuntujenkins: You may also find some hints in debian/copyright if those are missing.
<persia> Are you sure upstream doesn't distribute their source as several modules?  It may be that some modules are unpackaged, and would deserve their own packages.  Also note that it is very rare for anything to be removed from an upstream source except where it has licensing issues: so take care with your modifications.
<ubuntujenkins> persia: the readme is useful but either i am miss understanding it or it desn't quite tell me enough. I debian/rules isn't there neither is the copyright. thanks for your thoughts I think contacting upstream may be the best course of action
<persia> ubuntujenkins: What?  You can't have a package without debian/copyright.  At which sources are you looking?
<persia> ubuntujenkins: Also, upstream is exceedingly unlikely to have any idea what sources are or are not packaged in Debian.
<persia> (or any given distribution)
<ubuntujenkins> persia: i ment debian packaging http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/debian-tex/texlive2009/#_texlive2009_ is where i am looking (I have it downloaded on my computer)  may be i missed the obvious
<ubuntujenkins> persia: found the copyright file
<persia> ubuntujenkins: No idea.  I'm not sure how to interpret that VCS.  Maybe try `apt-get source` on the package of interest.
<ubuntujenkins> well its worth a look. thanks again persia
<persia> ubuntujenkins: One file floating around in there indicates at least XyMTeX and ppower are not distributable, dunno what else is removed.
<ubuntujenkins> ok, i think i have lots of files to read
<YokoZar> ScottK: new wine1.0 upload (there was some configuration issue that wasn't occurring locally that I fixed)
<carstenh> will the ubuntu "m" release replace hardy as supported distribution on ppa?
<persia> carstenh: Ask in #launchpad, but I doubt it.  Hardy will probably be supported until 2013
<persia> carstenh: Historically, the folks that manage PPAs have allowed PPAs for the releases that are supported in Ubuntu.
<carstenh> sounds great :) there is still hope that chromium will hit debian before 2013 ;)
<carstenh> ... and hardy ppas work on lenny
<persia> kinda sorta.
 * micahg thinks dapper is still supported in PPA
<RoAkSoAx> heya guys. quick question!! in TestDrive we just included few lines of code that allow us to obtain the Current Devel release codename automatically... and we were wondering if we still can upload it into lucid
 * carstenh uses the following as bad hack to get the first char for dapper and later: ubuntu-1st-char () { perl -e 'print chr 64 + $ARGV[0] * 2 - 9 + length $ARGV[1], "\n"' "${1:?y?}" "${2:?m?}" }
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK, could I still file a FFe for new upstream of TestDrive that adds a simple, but necessary functionality?
<persia> RoAkSoAx: I'd advise filing an FFe for that: it's not clearly bugfix.
<persia> RoAkSoAx: You could probably do an s/lucid/maverick/ upload as clearly bugfix though.
<RoAkSoAx> persia, ok thanks :) will figure it out asap
<persia> RoAkSoAx: Note that someone from the release team may well give better advice than I :)
<RoAkSoAx> persia, :) I think that would be better
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK, whenever you have some time, please take a look to bug $570485
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK, whenever you have some time, please take a look to bug #570485
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 570485 in testdrive "[FFe] New upstream release 1.37" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/570485
<persia> RoAkSoAx: You do know that there are several other members of the release team, right?
<YokoZar> persia: Yes but ScottK is the best ;)
<nhandler> kirkland: Any reason for the commented out r = "lucid" line ?
<kirkland> nhandler: hmm, i added an inline comment for that
<kirkland> nhandler: let me see which rev RoAkSoAx grabbed
<nhandler> kirkland: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/45618724/testdrive.diff
<kirkland> nhandler: yeah, RoAkSoAx needs to update that
<kirkland> RoAkSoAx: ping
<kirkland> RoAkSoAx: i made 2-3 minor changes to your merge when i committed
<kirkland> RoAkSoAx: including two lines of comments that answers nhandler's question
<kirkland> nhandler: to answer your question .... :-)  one sec ...
<nhandler> I also don't see a changelog entry in that diff
<kirkland> nhandler: http://paste.ubuntu.com/423102/ in 60-61
<kirkland> nhandler: yeah, RoAkSoAx's diff is bad
<kirkland> nhandler: let me grab one
<nhandler> kirkland: In general the changes look fine. Poke me when you have a good diff, I'll review it, and then you can upload
<kirkland> nhandler: thanks
<kirkland> nhandler: gimme 5
<nhandler> Sure thing. I'll be around about 2.5 hours
<kirkland> nhandler: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/45627184/570485.debdiff
<nhandler> kirkland: I didn't think LP: #XXXXX, #NNNNN would get picked up properly. Did that change?
<nhandler> And why do you change an old changelog entry?
<kirkland> nhandler: it does
<nhandler> cool
 * kirkland checks changelog
<kirkland> nhandler: oh, hmm, not sure how that old timestamp change snuck in there
<kirkland> nhandler: i'll fix
<kirkland> nhandler: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/45627355/570485.debdiff
<nhandler> kirkland: Go ahead and upload
<kirkland> nhandler: cheers
<nhandler> :)
<kirkland> ScottK: i did make the usb-creator-kde control file change before upload; however, i just realized...
<kirkland>                         os.execv("/usr/bin/usb-creator-gtk", ["usb-creator-gtk", "-i", PATH_TO_ISO])
<kirkland> nhandler: one more, per ScottK's request: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/testdrive/+bug/570509
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 570509 in testdrive "fix testdrive to work with usb-creator-kde" [Wishlist,Fix committed]
<kirkland> nhandler: debdiff attached, very trivial
<RoAkSoAx> kirkland, nhandler upsy sorry about that... seems I attached the old debdiff... and I had to run out :) Anything else I can do to help?
<ScottK> imbrandon: I cannot do archive removals.
<ScottK> kirkland: Since you got the FFe from nhandler, just upload the correct thing.
<YokoZar> ScottK: wine1.0.1-0ubuntu2 waiting for approval, then I should have everything I need from you.  Thanks for being helpful by the way :)
<ScottK> YokoZar: It's on my list.  Just got to my hotel a little bit ago.
<YokoZar> Oh, are you at the Sprint?
<ScottK> No.  I'm in California for a $WORK project
<kirkland> ScottK: thx
<kirkland> ScottK: done
<ScottK> kirkland: OK.
<nhandler> kirkland: So is everything ok now? Or need me to look at something else?
<kirkland> nhandler: all good ;-)
<nhandler> :)
<kirkland> nhandler: just waiting for a release-team-aa to approve the uploads
<ScottK> There are a few and I'm doing them in the order they were uploaded.
<ScottK> kirkland: I am going to go ahead and reject 1.37-0ubuntu1, so don't freak out.  I'll review 1.38.
<kirkland> ScottK: just accept both, no?
<kirkland> ScottK: so that the bugs get marked as fixed
<ScottK> kirkland: Then it builds twice too.  If you use -v on dpkg-buildpackage you can mark bugs fixed for multiple releases.
 * micahg would suggest rejecting both and reupload
<ScottK> If kirkland wants.
<ScottK> micahg: Is seamonkey taken care of?
<micahg> ScottK: chrisccoulson didn't get to review today, he said tomorrow
<ScottK> Right.  Let's not cut this close or anything.
<micahg> sorry, I did what I could, but I don't have upload rights otherwise it would be up tonight
<ajmitch> there was noone else who'd be able to review it?
<kirkland> ScottK: okay, i can do that
<ajmitch> I imagine that being familiar with it would probably be needed
<micahg> ajmitch: there was one last thing to test as well and that was the replaces/breaks
<ScottK> ajmitch: I really want this upload signed by someone in ubuntu-mozillateam.
<ScottK> micahg: How about lightning?
<ajmitch> ScottK: that's why I'm not stepping forward to review it
 * ScottK nods
<micahg> ScottK: I didn't get a final answer, it ended up being a larger mess than I thought, he said if I can't get it ready tonight then we'd probably drop it
<ScottK> Probably not a bad idea.
<micahg> ScottK: Do you think a backport would work for it?
<ScottK> micahg: If what we have is totally broken then it ought to go in proposed/updates
<micahg> ScottK: you'd let us SRU a new version?
 * micahg checks if it works
<ScottK> micahg: I'm not on the SRU team, but working > not working.
<micahg> ScottK: oh, why did I think you were on that team...
 * micahg will check if it works
<micahg> ScottK: the bigger question is whether it's exposed to insecure content and that there are no more planned updates upstream except for lightning
<ScottK> micahg: All the more reason to push it in now.  Once they archive is frozen for release, you can't remove binaries anymore.
 * ajmitch ought to upload that sdl update to -proposed before it gets forgotten
 * ScottK gives didrocks a slap with a dead fish for uploading a 32668 line diff the day before final freeze.
<micahg> ScottK: seems to work, but asac didn't seem to like the idea of leaving it in there for Lucid as is
<ScottK> micahg: I don't like leaving old dead vulnerable code around either.
<ScottK> If it were just up to me, I think I'd upload the newer one, drop sunbird and SRU as needed if you miss a spot.
<micahg> ScottK: well, there are actually 2 sources that I'd have to update tonight, lightning-sunbird and sunbird-locales
 * micahg sees if I can even pull an upstream tarball
<kirkland> ScottK: done, testdrive_1.38-0ubuntu2_source.changes uploaded
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> kirkland: You can reuse the version number if it hasn't been accepted ...
<ScottK> It's fine as is, I'm sure.
<kirkland> ScottK: i wasn't sure, so i bumped just in case
<ScottK> That's fine.
<ScottK> stgraber: What's up with this edubuntu-artwork upload in the queue?
<nhandler> ScottK: I think he commented on that in -release
<ScottK> Yeah, there was some discussion.  I was suprised it was still in the queue.
<ajmitch> I don't think there's been anyone accepting uploads for the last few hours
<persia> Too many folk concentrated in one place
<ajmitch> they all headed off to london?
<nhandler> I thought that was usually the week before UDS
 * persia gives up on trying to get various non-x86 bioses to build: cross-arch virtualisation will have to wait for maverick
<persia> Seems like a bundle of folk tend to gather together during release weeks, at least since ~feisty
 * persia wasn't really paying enough attention to know before that.
<ajmitch> there's often been a group of them gathering together for the final push
<persia> I think a different bundle of folks gather together a week before UDS.
 * ajmitch might have to try & get to UDS again at some point
<StevenK> ajmitch: There's one in May ...
<ScottK> StevenK: Up for some package removals today perhaps?
<ScottK> There's still a stack.
<StevenK> ScottK: Such as?
<ajmitch> StevenK: yes, there is, and it's a little too late for me to get there :P
<ajmitch> debian-edu-*
<StevenK> ScottK: I'm trying to keep state in my head, currently
 * ScottK looks for current status
<ScottK> kirkland: Would you please look at bug 562852 and either mark it confirmed or invalid.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 562852 in likewise-open5 "Please remove likewise-open5 from lucid on all architectures" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/562852
<ajmitch> iirc likewise-open really does replace it, that should have been confirmed awhile ago
<persia> likewise-open also seems to have some degree of upstream support on bug reports, etc. unlike likewise-open5
<ajmitch> likewise-open conflicts/replaces/provides likewise-open5
<ScottK> StevenK: https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-archive/+bugs?field.searchtext=remove&orderby=-importance&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=CONFIRMED&field.status%3Alist=TRIAGED&assignee_option=any&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.bug_supervisor=&field.bug_commenter=&field.subscriber=&field.tag=&field.tags_combinator=ANY&field.status_upstream-empty-marker=1&field.has_cve.used=&field.omit_dupes.used=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.affects_me
<ScottK> .used=&field.has_patch.used=&field.has_branches.used=&field.has_branches=on&field.has_no_branches.used=&field.has_no_branches=on has 20 bugs that as a glance could use some processing.
<ScottK> hooray for sensible urls from LLP
<ScottK> LLP/LP
<ajmitch> LP needs a builtin URL shortener
<persia> https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-archive/+bugs_field.searchtext=remov* is the one I use
 * persia tries to figure out why the usual trick fails
<persia> https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-archive/+bugs?field.searchtext=remov* anyway
<persia> Aha!  s/?/_/ !
<ScottK> persia: I was also just trying to get the ones confirmed or triaged.
<persia> https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-archive/+bugs?field.searchtext=remov*&field.status%3Alist=CONFIRMED&field.status%3Alist=TRIAGED
<persia> What LP needs to do is not bother exposing null things in the URL.
<ScottK> Agreed.
<ScottK> Would someone please confirm the sugar removal bug too.
<persia> But the remov* is required for some of the bugs that have "Request for removal ..." in the title.
<ScottK> I'm pretty sure about that, but would rather focus on accepting stuff in the queue.
<persia> ajmitch: You acked the debian-edu* stuff: do you want it "Triaged"?
<ajmitch> I'll at least file a bug for it for debian, it only affects it with python 2.6
<StevenK> ~/
<micahg> ScottK: is it crazy to have a 60MB orig tarball for a 3MB binary?
<kirkland> ScottK: looks reasonable to me
<ScottK> kirkland: Please say so in the bug and mark it confirmed.
<ScottK> micahg: Probably, but this is mozilla.  How does sanity figure?
<micahg> <2MB binary...
<ScottK> ajmitch: He's one of the ones that gets especially grumpy when Ubuntu doesn't 'give back', so yes, please.
<ajmitch> persia: sorry, missed your question -triaged would make sense
<micahg> ScottK: I'll see if I can make that build easier for the next release, but it seems like it'll be something like that
<kirkland> ScottK: done, calling it a night
<ScottK> kirkland: Thanks.
<ScottK> superm1: Is the mythbuntu-live-autostart something you would consider respinning for?  It looks to me like it should be aimed at -proposed. (I'm glad to hear arguments why that's not correct).
<superm1> ScottK, it needs a respin actually
<ScottK> slangasek: ^^^
<superm1> ScottK, that new ubiquity uploaded today screwed up the UI for a bunch of the pages because of alignment changes
<ScottK> OK.  Well we need the boss say about that ....
<ScottK> slangasek: I'm off to bed, so I'll leave that one for you.
<superm1> (it was the exact same kinds of changes that were needed for dell-recovery that was uploaded today)
<ScottK> Right.  I did accept that since it wasn't on any ISO.
<slangasek> superm1: which of the changes in ubiquity broke mythbuntu?
<superm1> slangasek, it's either r4116 or r4117
<superm1> looking closer, r4116 is the one
<superm1> any third party ubiquity plugins need to evaluate (and possibly fix) alignment after that
 * ScottK notes the archive is still open for fixing unseeded packages ....
<slangasek> superm1: how thoroughly has this change been tested?  We basically only get one shot at this
<superm1> slangasek, i've tested it from every permutation of the pages i can come up with in a VM (including trying to simulate the extra page that shows up for adding a graphics card)
<slangasek> superm1: ok - accepting; apologies for making you scramble, I don't think it occurred to evan or myself that there'd be knock-on effects from the change
<superm1> many of the pages are unreadable without it
<slangasek> superm1: have you gotten any traction on bug #550100, btw?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 550100 in mythtv "white noise or no sound after seeking when using PULSEAUDIO:default" [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/550100
<superm1> unfortunately not, it's going to have to be an SRU type thing later if anything it looks
<superm1> will continue to keep an eye on it though
<suji11> hi
<superm1> (because there is still a set of problems with that upstream patch)
<slangasek> superm1: ok; moving the milestone then
<superm1> K, thanks
<suji11> my package IOK is now available in lucid, it is the version 1.3.9 i have to update to 1.3.10, how to do that?
<StevenK> slangasek: Are you okay for me to process package removals like ScottK is asking?
<slangasek> StevenK: yes
<StevenK> ScottK: Okay, give me that link again, please?
<ScottK> StevenK: https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-archive/+bugs?field.searchtext=remove&orderby=-importance&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=CONFIRMED&field.status%3Alist=TRIAGED&assignee_option=any&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.bug_supervisor=&field.bug_commenter=&field.subscriber=&field.tag=&field.tags_combinator=ANY&field.status_upstream-empty-marker=1&field.has_cve.used=&field.omit_dupes.used=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.affects_me
<ScottK> .used=&field.has_patch.used=&field.has_branches.used=&field.has_branches=on&field.has_no_branches.used=&field.has_no_branches=on
<micahg> ScottK: maybe tinyurl would help?
<ScottK> micahg: Talk to the launchpad developers
<StevenK> ScottK: You could use tinyurl yourself :-P
<micahg> bug 317136
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 317136 in launchpad-foundations "Launchpad should offer a "Get tinyURL link" option for each page" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/317136
<slangasek> 'https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-archive/+bugs?field.searchtext=remove&orderby=-importancefield.status%3Alist=CONFIRMED&field.status%3Alist=TRIAGED' gets you to the same place, but is hand-composed
<ScottK> StevenK: I could, but if I put extra effort into avoiding painful aspect of LP, I'd never get anything else done.
<StevenK> ScottK: Right, there is more than I was thinking, I'll work through them slowly
<ScottK> Thanks and good night.
<suji11> Any one help me... my package IOK is now available in lucid, it is the version 1.3.9 i have to update to 1.3.10, how to do that?
<andol> suji11: Well, concidering Lucid is well into "final freeze", about to be released... How critical is that update?
<andol> suji11: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FinalFreeze
<Rhonda> Oh dear. "The fix for libsdl1.2 will be uploaded into lucid-proposed, for testing after lucid release."
 * Rhonda prepares to expect futher duplicate bugreports about that.  %-/
<Rhonda> So it seems that mouse clicks in windowed sdl applications isn't considered an important feature. :/
<didrocks> ScottK: most of it was updated translation (so, filterdiff should be your friend). Sorry for that :/ The real bugfix is only one line
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> dholbach: nominations for the membership boards were that low, were they?
<callum1> Morning all, I have managed to fix one of the FTBFS packages as my first packaging attempt (thanks to someone here pointing this out). My question is now I have build the package what do I do now? I know someone has to check this for me so looking for help on how to go about this. Thanks
<suji11> andol: now the version of IOK in lucid is 1.3.9 but the next version 1.3.10 was released with fix some bugs https://fedorahosted.org/iok/browser/trunk/ChangeLog, i have to update this, how to do that?
<dholbach> ajmitch: we just need a few more
<ajmitch> callum1: you'll want to attach the debdiff to a bug in launchpad & subscribe ubuntu-sponsors - see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
<joaopinto> aren't we supposed to use bzr merge requests as a replacement for debdifs :) ?
<geser> callum1: the FTBFS for osmo?
<callum1> geser: yeah :)
<geser> callum1: give me a debdiff and I'll sponsor it
<callum1> geser: nice one I have only done the changes you suggested and built the package gonna look up debdiff now
<callum1> geser: i have a debdiff now how do I go about getting this to you?
<geser> pastebin it
<callum1> geser: http://pastebin.com/nECeMH2v
<geser> callum1: looks like you edited the existing changelog entry instead of adding a new one (dch -i) and your mentioned changes are missing (your debdiff only contains changes to debian/changelog)
<callum1> geser: just noticed ill give this another shot and let you know one this is done (thanks for bearing with me :) )
<suji11> dholbach: hi
<dholbach> hi suji11
<suji11> dholbach: my package IOK is in lucid and its version is 1.3.9, but it has some bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/iok/+bug/563635 , the bug was cleared in the source of IOK 1.3.10, i have to update this package in lucid, how  to do that?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 563635 in iok "iok gets terminated due to buffer overflow when "xkb-Tamil Unicode with Numerals" keymap is selected in drop down." [Undecided,New]
<dholbach> suji11: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess
<dholbach> suji11: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
<callum1> geser: I have fixed this now sorry about that here is the new debdiif http://pastebin.com/byZ7Q9CD
<geser> callum1: thanks, and congratulations for your first(?) sponsored upload :)
<callum1> geser: Yeah was my first :) and thanks really goes to you for all your help!
<ricotz> dholbach, hello, is there a site which specifies the terms of updating a package of lucid after its release?
<dholbach> ricotz: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<dholbach> ricotz: I'm not the only one who knows this kind of information :)
<ricotz> thanks anyway ;-)
<dholbach> rock on
<suji11> dholbach: Sorry, i couldn't understand the things there, can you tell me?
<dholbach> suji11: I'm not the only one who knows about the processes, so just ask the whole channel :)
<dholbach> suji11: what's your questions?
<dholbach> suji11: what do you want to know?
<suji11> i have to update the package iok-1.3.9 to iok-1.3.10 in lucid with the bug fix https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/iok/+bug/563635
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 563635 in iok "iok gets terminated due to buffer overflow when "xkb-Tamil Unicode with Numerals" keymap is selected in drop down." [Undecided,New]
<suji11> i am having the source tarball for iok-1.3.10 from that how to i update?
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/PackageUpdate is an example of how you can update a package
<dholbach> once you're done with that, check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess (if you manage to do it until Thursday although the gates are closing earlier)
<dholbach> otherwise check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess explains how to get the package uploaded
<callum1> geser: Fancy checking another debdiff for me?
<suji11> dholbach: i followed the steps here and update the package https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/PackageUpdate
<suji11> dholbach: then how to send to upstream?
<sladen> suji11: find the upstream bug tracker;  file a bug report with something similar to the name of the package you created, state the issue, attach the patch
<sladen> suji11: alternatively, if the issue is already in the upstream's bug tracker, file the patch and state that it was shipped in the Ubuntu version after your extensive testing
<suji11> sladen: the bug is in launchpad https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/iok/+bug/563635
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 563635 in iok "iok gets terminated due to buffer overflow when "xkb-Tamil Unicode with Numerals" keymap is selected in drop down." [Undecided,New]
<suji11> sladen: then what i do?
<sladen> suji11: so this is the bug that you're in the process of doing an upload to fix?
<suji11> sladen: yes
<sladen> suji11: eg. you have found the solution, and codified it as  patch
<suji11> sladen: i am not create patch just i follow the link which i said before and update the package.
<suji11> sladen:  with latest source
<sladen> suji11: can you set the bug as  Confirmed,  assign it to yourself, and add a quick comment   "I've found the issue, it was X interacting with Y and is solved with Z, see attached patch" + attach patch
<sladen> suji11: oh, so it's not your solution, it's a solution that upstream have already tested+applied and is in the new upstream version
<sladen> suji11: in which case, upstream already know about it and you don't need to send the fix to them!
<suji11> sladen: upstream means? Actually iok is already available in fedora only, i got the source and packaged it for ubuntu at first, then the updates are done in the source tarball, from that i have to update it for ubuntu am right?
<sladen> suji11: "upstream" means the developers who wrote the *original* program;  they probably have a download site with the a plain .tar.gz  containing the raw source code
<suji11> sladen: yes , from there only i got the source tarball
<sladen> suji11: flowing downstream (towards the users and the sea) will be the distributions;  Debian/Ubuntu/Fedora/...
<sladen> suji11: if each of those decided to fix it for just their users, the solution would never make it into the original (upstream) source code for the benefit of everyone else
<suji11> sladen: ok, the upstream was fixed the problem and gave the new version iok-1.3.10, now my question is how to i bring this for ubuntu?
<sladen> suji11: can you update the Ubuntu bug by saying "the issue is fixed in upstream version x.y.z as detailed in the changelog" and cut and paste whichever part of the upstream changelog confirms it
<sladen> suji11: (1) document what needs doing;  (2) do it [or ask for help/assistance doing it];  (3) document what was doing---Launchpad does these semi-automatically based on the bug number listed in the debian/changelog entires
<geser> callum1: sure
<callum1> geser: thanks I uploaded the patch to the bug url: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/app-install-data-ubuntu/+bug/538223
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 538223 in app-install-data-ubuntu "typo in gwhere (yourS CDs)" [Undecided,New]
<callum1> geser: ignore that just noticed there are several occurences. Ill fix that now
<callum1> gerser: sorry about that new debdiff can be found here  http://pastebin.com/AQC6r9wT
<callum1> geser: >.<  http://pastebin.com/KUbV3iWL
<imbrandon> morning all
<ScottK> joaopinto: At this point I'd call bzr branches an alternative to debdiffs.  I don't think we are to the point where we say they replace them.
<MTecknology> dholbach: I suppose I could annoy you on irc too :P
<dholbach> MTecknology: how can I help you? (or anybody else in here)
<MTecknology> dholbach: I just saw you online and didn't talk in a while, wanted to say hi. You're attitude makes me eager to get out of school, get my company up and running smoothly, and get back into packaging really hard.
<dholbach> MTecknology: if you have a bit of time again to put some effort into learning packaging and more about developing ubuntu, be sure to hang out here :)
<om26er> how do I use my previous gpg key after a clean install?
<imbrandon> om26er: did you backup ~/.gnupg  ?
<om26er> no
<imbrandon> om26er: then it is gone forever
<om26er> oh my
<imbrandon> om26er: always backup , esp important things like a gpg key
<imbrandon> om26er: you might try data recovery on the old /home partition
 * om26er will create a new gpg key and upload it to one.ubuntu ;)
<om26er> imbrandon, how do I use it next time
<imbrandon> om26er: not sure what you mean, next time
<imbrandon> om26er: can you rephrase ?
<om26er> imbrandon, if I create a new now and save ~/.gnupg when I install next time how do I restore
<joaopinto> ScottK, on the last bzr for packaging presentation I got the idea it was replacing debdiffs in general, except for specific cases where debdiffs would make sense
<imbrandon> om26er: ahh yes, first thing is gpg secret keys are very important to keep secure, there are a number of ways people save them, personaly i keep mine on an encrypted ( not with the same gpg key ) usb drive in a safe deposit box, and a seperate one hard printed out in a diffrent firebox location, as far as restoring its just a matter of replacing the /home/.gnupg after install
<om26er> imbrandon, ok, thanks :)
<imbrandon> oh wow, i thought the DMB meeting was at 11am local ... glad i am online anyhow
<ScottK> joaopinto: Eventually.  We aren't there yet.
<imbrandon> om26er: i can give you some good links about gpg security and keeping your key safe etc if you would like here in a little bit ( just gave a talk about it a week ago so i still have the links somewhere )
<imbrandon> om26er: if not just poke google a bit :)
<om26er> imbrandon, yes, I am here
<ScottK> YokoZar: Are you fixing dssi-vst?
<SEJeff> How does one go about proposing a 1 line patch to a python module where upstream isn't very responsive?
<SEJeff> Should I wait for 5-6 months for upstream to continue ignoring it or should I propose it as a debdiff against the ubuntu / debian package?
<imbrandon> SEJeff: both, or all 3 rather
<imbrandon> imho
<imbrandon> SEJeff: if its a package with ubuntu changes also ( with a version like -XubuntuX ) then do a debdiff for us and debian, if its not then just debian is fine
<imbrandon> and it will trickel into ubuntu sooner ( rather than later )
<om26er> how do I use .patch or debdiff
<om26er> *while packaging
<om26er> a bug have a .patch I can apply it to the source with sudo patch ... but when I apply patch debian/changelog file contains the name of the patch writer but then I cannot upload that package to the ppa cuz I cannot dh_make so there wont be any .changes file as there are already files in debain/
<carstenh> om26er: "filterdiff -x '*/debian/changelog' patchfile > newpatchfile" creates a new patchfile without debian/changelog. don't use sudo patch, just patch. some packages use quilt or similar for managing pachtes, so depending on which package you work on directly applying patches might be the wrong way.
<om26er> carstenh, what about .patch file that come with the package source how are those patches in the debian/patches applied during build process
<carstenh> om26er: depends, if debian/source/format (or similar, don't remember the exact name) exists and contains "3.0 (quilt)" they are applied whilst unpacking the source. otherwise they are applied during the building process itself, debian/rules contains the code or includes code that does this. dpatch and quilt are the patch system that are widly in use, google should know much about them. a package needs to builddepends on quilt or dpatch if ...
<carstenh> ... it uses any of these, so checking debian/control should tell you which one is used.
<carstenh> in quilt you have to maintain a debian/patches/series file and you can apply oder unapply all patches with debian/rules apply oder debian/rules unapply
<YokoZar> ScottK: vst's problem seems to be that wine1.0 is refusing to install due to exit status 10 at --configure, but I haven't reproduced the problem locally.
<micahg> ScottK: slangasek: Seamonkey was uploaded earlier and the builders are idle
<MTecknology> jdong: hey.... you should help me :D
<MTecknology> jdong: If you ever have some time, would you be willing to help me with some init.d->init scripts? I want to learn how to do it so I can work on all of them and mybe see about upstream stuff if I can finish making them really smooth...
<imbrandon> MTecknology: init.d->upstart init ?
<imbrandon> MTecknology: if you ever pin jdong down for that lemme know, i'd like to learn a bit more about it too from a "live" person
<kirkland> nhandler: around?
<MTecknology> imbrandon: that's exactly what I mean
<MTecknology> imbrandon: hrm.... https://edge.launchpad.net/~uphackers
<MTecknology> jdong: lp:~uphackers/uphack/event.d - is this what should wind up in /etc/init/ ?
#ubuntu-motu 2010-04-28
<jdong> MTecknology / imbrandon : Sorry just got back from dinner....
<jdong> uphack is a really really old project by now and probably not useful
<jdong> it was from before the days of /etc/init/ and is likely not useful at all these days
<ajmitch> written for upstart < 0.3.x?
<jdong> correct.
<jdong> ajmitch: it was an automatic turn-init.d-into-upstart-jobs hack :)
<jdong> yay crack :)
<ajmitch> sounds tricky to get the event stuff right
<ajmitch> I expect such things from you
<jdong> hey it was properly labeled as crack!
<MTecknology> jdong: I need to run for a little bit - probably about an hour - you going to be around then?
<ajmitch> sort of like 2to3 for python conversion? a useful place to start, but not to be relied upon?
<jdong> ajmitch: it generated a bootorder similar to http://jdong.mit.edu/~jdong/upstart-dep.png
<jdong> ajmitch: it was a good starting point but I do expect things to break and require a bit of manual  tuning
<jdong> but back in the days, it took the gruntwork out of upstartify-ing
<ajmitch> how were these dependencies worked out?
<jdong> MTecknology: yeah I'll likely be around.
<jdong> ajmitch: some were quirk rules and others were parsing init file headers.
<ajmitch> aha
<MTecknology> jdong: what's your opinion about trying to get all the other init.d scripts to upstart scripts?
<MTecknology> jdong: if you want to maybe teach imbrandon and me about it too, I'm sure we'd be happy to work on it and maybe get the rest changed and remove the sysv-rc, initscripts, and sysv-utils dependendies from upstart for 10.10 :)
<MTecknology> imbrandon: would you want to try to do that?
<jdong> MTecknology: I'm afraid I wouldn't be the best person for that. While I'm familiar with Upstart itself, I'm not terribly familiar with Keybuk's new event definitions in /etc/init, and when *he* would like things to be starting up, etc.
<jdong> MTecknology: Upstart itself is like a programming language, the good engineering practices/conventions are not defined by the tool
<jdong> MTecknology: so, if  you want to flag down Keybuk in #ubuntu-devel and cc/ping me, I'd be glad to hear his input too
<micahg> nhandler: ping
<nhandler> micahg: pong
<micahg> nhandler: can you approve unapproved uploads?
<nhandler> micahg: I can approve it, but you will need an archive admin to still process it
<micahg> nhandler: well, seamonkey is in unapproved, already has FFe, do I just need archive admin?
<nhandler> micahg: Wasn't ScottK waiting for asac (or someone else on the mozzilateam) to provide feedback or something?
<micahg> nhandler: I think that was for lightning-sunbird
<nhandler> Ah, might have been.
<nhandler> Have a link to the bug for seamonkey?
<micahg> bug 461864
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 461864 in seamonkey "[FFe] Update Seamonkey to 2.0.x" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/461864
<nhandler> micahg: Ah, slangasek looked at it. Just wait for him to process it then
<persia> carstenh: You might find `what-patch` from ubuntu-dev-tools handy :)
<micahg> nhandler: k, I'll wait for him or ScottK
<nhandler> Yep
 * imbrandon yawns
<ScottK> micahg: Accepted.
<micahg> ScottK: thanks
<micahg> ScottK: one of my goals is to update all the mozilla packages early in maverick so all branches are ready to go for all potential versions of mozilla software so we no longer have this last minute thing
 * ajmitch likes the idea of not having stuff done at the last minute
 * ScottK too
 * micahg three :)
<carstenh> persia: what--patch sounds like a good idea :) though i'm not impressed, it detects 3.0 (quilt) as quilt without mentioning 3.0 and detects an unused patches directory (like cron uses) as unknown
<persia> You could fix it :)
<carstenh> there are more important bugs i could fix ;)
<micahg> anyone around to sponsor an FTBFS?
<micahg> ajmitch: around?
<RAOF> micahg: To where?
<micahg> universe
<RAOF> Shoot.
<micahg> nixternal: said he coudl too
<micahg> bug 561403
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 561403 in firegpg "firegpg FTBFS with xulrunner-dev 1.9.2.3+nobinonly-0ubuntu1" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/561403
<nixternal> he is buying me dinner though, and he doesn't know it yet
<nixternal> well, i guess he knows now
<micahg> heh
<nixternal> wait a sec, firegpg? people still use that?
<micahg> idk, web gmail users maybe
<nixternal> seriously, i was looking for firegpg for chromium a couple of months back, and the dev on twitter asked me, "People still use firegpg?"
 * micahg doesn't use it, but it has arch specific components
<nixternal> one of the actual firegpg devs asked me that :)
<micahg> wow
<nixternal> thought it was funny, and ended my search for it at that time
<micahg> maybe we should drop it then :)
<micahg> recent popcon is 28666
<persia> Or point upstream at popcon, which may make it get attention
<micahg> 35 installs...
 * micahg wonders why we kept this...
<nixternal> hehe
 * micahg checks debian popcon
 * nixternal is building
<nixternal> so it is to late
<micahg> 155 installs
 * micahg leaves a note for chrisccoulson
<ScottK> Keep in mind that popcon substantially subsamples the actual user base and the distribution of package use by the people that pick to enable popcon may be different than the userbase as a whole.
 * micahg should probably enable popcon...
 * micahg wouldn't think regular users would be using firegpg anyways
<persia> Why?
<micahg> how many regular users use GPG encryption?
 * persia knows bundles: mostly those involved in local politics in various places
<micahg> nixternal: 50MB of deps for a small extension..
<jpds> Hmm, popcorn.
<nixternal> popcorn does sound good
<nixternal> but i already carb loaded tonight, gotta wait now
<nixternal> wth all the deps on that little bugger?
<micahg> nixternal: xulrunner pulls in a lot of deps :)
<nixternal> oh yeah
<nixternal> tis another reason i hate moz**K@#J#@:
 * micahg wonders if he's part of the team supporting the packages most spurned by devs
<nixternal> FTBFS!!!!
<persia> micahg: No.  The packages most spurned by devs have no team.  You're part of the team that supports the second-most-spurned set of packages.
<micahg> heh
<micahg> nixternal: where?
<nixternal> micahg: had to do it, i missed april fools day :p
<micahg> I tried in a clean pbuilder
<micahg> heh
<nixternal> micahg: Successfully uploaded packages.
<micahg> nixternal: thanks
<nixternal> np
<nixternal> about time i uploaded something for someone else :p
<micahg> nixternal: do you want me to ping you when I need sponsoring?
<nixternal> nope, unless of course money is involved
<nixternal> if i am online, i will sponsor your garbage packages :p
<nixternal> we need to meet up for a drink or something soonish too
<nixternal> or a release party :)
<micahg> nixternal: k
 * micahg tries for one more
<nxvl> don't do that, nixternal is a bad person
<nxvl> he loves Vista
<nxvl> !nixternal
<ubottu> Oh no!  The pointy-clicky Windows7 lover has arrived!  He's rumoured to be giving out free money, and help on the MIRC client too! <nixternal> I LOVE MIRC!!!
<nxvl> :P
<nxvl> oh it has been updates
<nxvl> updated*
<nxvl> nixternal: are you going to UDS?
<nixternal> nope
<nixternal> no pisco for me :(
<nxvl> :(
<nixternal> in the fall, i will make my way back to UDS...don't have the funds to do a european road trip right now :)
<nxvl> i will try to go to chigago with a bottle
<nxvl> :P
<nixternal> plus, I need to get my tickets taken care of, or get a job that requires me to travel so I can update my passport :D
<nixternal> damn chicago!!!
<nxvl> so maverick +1?
<nixternal> definitely
<nxvl> heh
<nixternal> or you can always come up to chicago... we can get greg from Michigan who helped us drink that one bottle outside at Mt. View :)
<nxvl> i'm about to change my passport, it has no pages left!
<nixternal> that's to much traveling
<nxvl> i only have 6 more, and i bet that in europe i will use at least 2 more
<nxvl> nixternal: well, i've visas too, so it's kinda cheating
<nxvl> 2 us and 4 europeans
<nixternal> i loved it when i was in the navy...never needed a passport way back then :)
<nxvl> being a civilian is much more fun
<nxvl> :D
<nxvl> but i've a couple of friends who are officers in peruvian navy
<nxvl> kinda kewl go to visit their ships
<nxvl> but they didn't let me fire torpedos :(
<nixternal> hahaha
<nixternal> oh, speaking of pisco, there is a new liquor store by my house, that has it...i couldn't remember the brand or which ones, yes ones plural there, we plowed through
<nxvl> i just hope is not the chilean poison :P
<nixternal> guy said he could get me anything i wanted
<nxvl> don't get absinth
<nxvl> we tried that in Prague, is HORRIBLE
<nixternal> i want the peruvian goodness?
<nxvl> yup
<nxvl> it's actually complete different liquor, but same name
<nxvl> kinda complicated to explain
<nxvl> but chilean pisco is what you usually get around the world
<nixternal> ok...i will research some peruvian goodness and give him a list then
<nixternal> i need to take some to jcastro's wedding :)
<nxvl> i remember in berlin with dholbach we went to a bar that had pisco sour, and i said "i'm going to order a pisco sour and i bet i will get lemonade with chilean pisco"
<nxvl> and guess what did i got?
<nixternal> probably dog piss :D
<nxvl> nixternal: queirolo is one of the most known brand of pisco
<nixternal> careful drinking with dholbach
<nxvl> nixternal: actually i got what i was expecting: lemonade with chilean pisco
<nixternal> hehe
<nxvl> but it tasted like dog piss
<nixternal> yeah, when in berlin, drink what they are drinking, otherwise you will get dog piss
<nixternal> my uncle lives there and he always warned me...don't ask for anything from anywhere else...
<nxvl> well, my first experience with pisco outside peru was worst
<nxvl> i was in boston with the MIT/GNU/neds crew in a bar near the harvard sqauare, grendels dean i think, and i asked a pisco sour, hoping to get something even close to one
<nxvl> and i got a lemonade with pisco
<nxvl> i didn't even try to ask where was that pisco from
<nixternal> probably ocean water :)
<nxvl> yeah, maybe
<nxvl> that's why each time i see pisco sour in the list i order one
<nxvl> to see if someone can give me a worst glass of dog piss
<nxvl> kinda funny
<dholbach> good morning
<imbrandon> moins dholbach
<dholbach> hey imbrandon
<imbrandon> or should i say "baron" dholbach :)
<imbrandon> lol
<dholbach> pfffft
<imbrandon> gotta admit that is kinda cool though
<dholbach> imbrandon: somebody of my relatives actually dived into genealogy and found out that somebody of the Holbachs came from France, some time in 1700 or something - but I doubt we're in any way related to Monsieur d'Holbach ;-)
<imbrandon> :)
<piju> wow
<piju> netsplit?
<hyperair> 15:31:41 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: neversfelde, yofel, duanedesign, dyfet, ssweeny, \sh, ScottK, dantalizing, rulus, jtimberman,  (+14 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them)
<hyperair> i guess so.
<piju> nice
<piju> where are you now hyperair ?
<piju> .sg or .my ?
<hyperair> .sg
<piju> great.
<piju> send my regards to those chicks overthere
<hyperair> hahaha
<hyperair> will do, if i see any
<piju> hyperair, are coming this june ?
<piju> to MOSC2010 ?
<piju> am i netsplitted ?
<hyperair> piju: sorry, i was moving around
<hyperair> piju: yeah i probably will come
<piju> hyperair; great. meet you there
<hyperair> piju: yeah sure.
<piju> hyperair; maybe i will help for ham radio
<hyperair> ham radio?
<piju> hyperair; yes
<hyperair> what's ham radio?
<persia> hyperair: amateur radio
<Rhonda> I think I would need someone for testing bug #570609 for karmic. :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 570609 in karmic-backports "Please backport wesnoth-1.8 (1:1.8-3ubuntu1/universe)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/570609
<Rhonda> slytherin! As if I would have summoned you!
<Rhonda> slytherin: bug #570609 needs some testing and I was told that you would be the best candidate for it. ;)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 570609 in karmic-backports "Please backport wesnoth-1.8 (1:1.8-3ubuntu1/universe)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/570609
<slytherin> Rhonda: I will surely do it over weekend. For last few days my internet connection is busy updating ISO images.
<Rhonda> â¦ and I am having strange issues with my chroot right now. Starting wesnoth right ahead from there doesn't work. Starting a terminal works. Starting wesnoth _inside_ that started terminal works too.  %-/
<Rhonda> I simply don't get it. %-/
<slytherin> Rhonda: I have two karmic installation (i386, powerpc). I can test on any of them depending on package availability.
<Rhonda> Then I'll make my i386 build available to you, as long as you trust me and my build environment.
<slytherin> Rhonda: Sure. I will ping you over weekend.
<Rhonda> slytherin: http://deb.at/~rhonda/waste/2010-04-28-8qhGx9OOjbk/ - though not signed, if that bothers you. I don't have my key around.
<slytherin> Rhonda: No it doesn't bother me. :-)
<Rhonda> Oh, ScottK is also a backporter. ;)
<zgreg> so... release is imminent?
<slytherin> zgreg: Is there any reason to believe otherwise?
 * hyperair points at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucidReleaseSchedule
<zgreg> no :)
<azop> Lucid launch detected.
<suji11> sladen: hi
<callum1> geser: Hi posted the patch for bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/app-install-data-ubuntu/+bug/538223. Was wondering about getting a mentor to learn how to do things properly and more complicated bugs. Is this something I can apply for?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 538223 in app-install-data-ubuntu "typo in gwhere (yourS CDs)" [Undecided,New]
<Breaking_Pitt> Hello I don't know if I can ask this here...
<Breaking_Pitt> I'm creating some debian/ubuntu packages for my source code info tools
<Breaking_Pitt> and i'm getting this error debian-files-list-in-source
<callum1> Breaking_Pitt: which command are you running when you receive this error?
<Breaking_Pitt> one moment, i'll pase it here
<Rhonda> Breaking_Pitt: See lintian -i output for an extended explenation. And I think this isn't really the best channel to ask these questions - though don't know which others are prefered to be used for basic packaging issues. :)
<Breaking_Pitt> that's great if you don't know... :)
<Breaking_Pitt> lintian -iI bicho_0.0.1-1_i386.changes
<Rhonda> Then you should have the extended description already which gives you hints on what to do.
<Rhonda> "The clean rule for the package should remove this file." sounds pretty clear to me.
<Breaking_Pitt> I'm completely newbie!
<Breaking_Pitt> this is my first attempt
<Rhonda> Actually, when you use debhelper in your rules file, dh_clean (or similar) should get rid of debian/files
<Breaking_Pitt> my rules file only contains
<Breaking_Pitt>  dh $@
<Breaking_Pitt> this line
<Rhonda> That should do that, then. %: in the line before, I expect.
<Breaking_Pitt> let me see i think soo
<Breaking_Pitt> %:
<Breaking_Pitt>         dh $@
<Breaking_Pitt> this is exactly what my rules file contains
<azeem> Breaking_Pitt: is debian/files included in the .orig.tar.gz?
<azeem> or the .tar.gz
<Breaking_Pitt> let me see
<Breaking_Pitt> yes azeem
<azeem> that'd be it
<azeem> it gets removed by dh_clean, but dpkg-source ignores deletions in order to create the .diff.g
<azeem> z
<persia> You may want to explicity add it to debian/clean or just ignore the warning.  Check your build log carefully.
<azeem> Breaking_Pitt: or fix your upstream tarball, if you have control over it
<Breaking_Pitt> ok
<Breaking_Pitt> I'm totally newbie that's the reason why I'm here asking for help
<Breaking_Pitt> I have read a lot of manuals
<Breaking_Pitt> but I have some problems
<Breaking_Pitt> i'm trying to build a package from python source code
<Breaking_Pitt> do you know any other place where I can take a look at?
<azeem> a look at what?
<Breaking_Pitt> for more info
<azeem> about what?
<Breaking_Pitt> python source code packaging
<persia> Breaking_Pitt: For 90% of software, there's almost no special packaging.  The key is to pick Python software that uses distutils properly.
<callum1> hopefully a simple question...How do I add a recommended dependency to a binary package? ie where would I add this?
<soren> callum1: debian/control
<callum1> soren: ah see it now. I added it to build depends rather than depends >.< . is there a difference between a recommended depends and an actual depends?
<soren> callum1: Yes.
<soren> callum1: Dependencies are listed on a Depends: line. Recommended packages are listed on a Recommends: line.
<callum1> soren: thats great thanks for your help :)
<Ciemon> all, I'm trying to find where the .desktop file is within a pacakge (before it's installed)
<Ciemon> Having no luck.
<persia> Ciemon: How do you mean?  With what tools are you trying to extract?  Or do you mean at source build time?
<Ciemon> at build
<persia> Oh, could be anywhere, really.
<Ciemon> hmm
<persia> I've seen it in ./, ./src/, ./docs:/, ./data/, etc.
<Ciemon> just working on a bug
<Ciemon> you have 5 mins spare?
<persia> Just ask questions.  If someone has the answer, they will answer.  May or may not be me.
<Ciemon> ok :)
<carstenh> Ciemon: maybe this helps: find . -iname '*desktop*'
<Ciemon> the readme in extr-xdg-menus suggests simply add a line with: "Categories=HamRadio" to the .desktop file belonging to the package
<Ciemon> However, I've just seen a package that has a /debian/menu file detailing the info needed
<Ciemon> so.. is it .desktop or /debian/menu ?
<persia> Should be "Categories=Network;HamRadio;" or "Categories=Audio;HamRadio;" according to http://standards.freedesktop.org/menu-spec/latest/apa.html
<persia> Yes :)
<persia> .desktop works for XDG-compliant menu systems.  debian/menu works for debian-menu compliant menu systems.  The xdg-menu package will give access to the debian-menu system for xdg-menu compliant implementations.
<Ciemon> heh, was that yes to .desktop or /debian/menu?
<persia> Yes.
<Ciemon> ok, got it.. thanks
<persia> Most of the major menuing systems in use in Ubuntu are XDG-complaint, but some are not.  Best practice is to include *both*.
<persia> That makes it very unlikely that the item will not appear in a user menu, regardless of which menu system the user has selected.
<freeflying> persia: have some mins for talk?
<geser> callum1: there is/was a MOTU mentoring program, but I don't know its status. When you are stuck when fixing a bug, simply ask here and someone who can help you will (hopefully) answer.
<RoAkSoAx> callum1, we are reorganizing the Mentoring Program. We will announce it soon
<ari-tczew> geser: do I wrote okay about handle my application? 1st MOTU, 2nd if MOTU rejected then UUC request membership
<ari-tczew> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda
<geser> ari-tczew: looks good (and since I'll chair the next meeting I know about it now too)
<ari-tczew> thanks!
<marshall> hey masters
<marshall> how can i get my hands on an svg of the new logo?
<micahg> \sh: ping
<callum1> RoAkSoAx / geser: thanks I will keep doing what I can in the meantime and will ask here about the mentoring at a later stage.
<fabrice_sp> Hi. Any releas member to check bug 568619? I know it's a bit late
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 568619 in gorm.app "FFe: Sync gorm.app 1.2.10-1 (universe) from Debian sid (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/568619
<imbrandon> is there a such thing that would be the equiv of "pxe boot + public internet" ?
<imbrandon> other than say a mini-iso netinstall, more like a true pxe
#ubuntu-motu 2010-04-29
<stevecrozz> Trying to update a package in my PPA with a new upstream release and I'm getting "uupdate: a native Debian package cannot take upstream updates"
<stevecrozz> what did I do wrong?
<kaushal> hi
<kaushal> daftykins: whats the stable release of FF on 9.04 ?
<kaushal> whats the stable release of FF on 9.04 ?
<virtuald> kaushal: see packages.ubuntu.com
<kaushal> virtuald: where exactly
<kaushal> http://packages.ubuntu.com/jaunty/
<kaushal> i dont see browser section there
<virtuald> below the "browse" list on the front page there's a search box
<virtuald> it's in network anyway
<virtuald> or maybe not
* ScottK changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Lucid frozen for release - lucid-proposed is open - get to work on SRUs! | Want to get involved with the MOTU? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Sponsor queue: http://is.gd/2y76G | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs | http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs/ | latest rebuild failures: http://udd.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu_ftbfs.cgi
 * ajmitch hopes maverick will be open soon :)
<arand> ajmitch: 6th... ages away...
<ajmitch> it is a long time
<ScottK> It will be open when it's ready.  What's on the schedule is an estimate of when that will be.
<imbrandon> evening ScottK
<ScottK> Heya imbrandon.  Congratulations.
<imbrandon> ScottK: ty ty
<ajmitch> actually my main reason for wanting it open is to make sure that SRUs pushed to -proposed do get into maverick, unless there's a plan to copy from lucid-proposed to there
<imbrandon> i dunno if it would copy from proposed, but -updates and and -security it does, so it might
<ajmitch> usual SRU procedure is to fix in the development release first, I probably won't have enough fixes to land to end up forgetting them in maverick
<micahg> RAOF: what do you think of putting a wrapper around gnome-shell for mozjs so we don't have to rebuild gjs every time xulrunner is updated?
<imbrandon> wow i got to stop watching the -party , its exausting to say the least
<ajmitch> imbrandon: yeah, quite a time-waster
<imbrandon> hum so if i backport apt-mirror i would have to do a source-change backport ... the new packaging for lucid isnt backwords compatable even thgough the program is ... :(
<imbrandon> rats
<jpds> imbrandon: Install ubumirror.
<imbrandon> jpds: for ?
<ScottK> IIRC the last time around, pitti copied packages from -proposed to lucid.
<imbrandon> jpds: apt-mirror is alot more flexable than ubumirror , plus i'm kinda upstream for apt-mirror ;) but in either case dosent help the backport issue
<RAOF> micahg: That's not a bad plan.  Ideally it'd be ported to seed, which uses an actual javascript library, with an honest-to-goodness SONAME :).
<micahg> RAOF: k, but until then, would you like me to make a wrapper proposal for an SRU?
<RAOF> micahg: Maybe not - I think our current state is not having to rebuild gnome-shell, just libgjs, right?
<micahg> RAOF: right, but to avoid rebuilding gjs, we have to put a wrapper around what uses mozjs, right?
<micahg> RAOF: the workaround is to use a wrapper with LD_LIBRARY_PATH set
<RAOF> Is it easy to set the right LD_LIBRARY_PATH across xulrunner upgrades?
<ajmitch> I take it that xulrunner doesn't really believe in this binary compatibility thing?
<RAOF> Are we likely to have any xulrunner upgrades?
<micahg> RAOF: yes :), every month
<micahg> ajmitch: no :)
<RAOF> ajmitch: Correct.  mozjs is an aggressively internal library.
<micahg> RAOF: yes, setting LD_LIBRARY_PATH with a wrapper is easy
<RAOF> There's a nice pkg-config file, isn't there.
<micahg> RAOF: there is, but I use xulrunner-1.9.2 --gre-version to decide which dir to use
<RAOF> If we're going to have monthly bumps of the xulrunner nano version, then I support an SRU for gjs and gnome-shell to strip the rpath and introduce wrapper scripts.
<micahg> RAOF: k, I'll work on it once I finish my current stuff
<micahg> next update is May 13
<micahg> hopefully, I can have an SRU ready before then
<micahg> RAOF: what's going on?
<RAOF> Bah.  ctrl-w is not the same as super-w
<ajmitch> may we laugh quietly?
<RAOF> You may laugh uproriously for all I care.  Particularly after I accidentally hit ctrl-w to tile my windowsâ¦
<virtuald> you should use "emacs" keybindings :p
 * micahg suggests conkeror :)
<imbrandon> virtuald: we dont have enough fingers for emacs keybindings ;)
<virtuald> gnome calls it emacs keybindings but it's more like readline keybindings
<virtuald> http://kb.mozillazine.org/Emacs_Keybindings_%28Firefox%29
<RAOF> Intriguing.  I now have two #ubuntu-motu tabs open, one of which is completely empty, and closing it closes the useful one.
<ajmitch> RAOF: you have broken the internet
<RAOF> I'm good at that.
<micahg> RAOF: which client?
<RAOF> Smuxi.
 * micahg never heard of it, using Pidgin :)
<imbrandon> im client for irc, never was my cup-o-tea
<imbrandon> irssi + screen ( occasionaly quasail or gnome-xchat via irssi-proxy ) ftw
<RAOF> smuxi is like irssi+screen, but GUI.  It's quite nice.
<imbrandon> RAOF: but irssi+screen can use any gui you like :(
<RAOF> imbrandon: As long as it's a console interface? :)
<imbrandon> RAOF: no i use the gnome-xchat interface all the time for it
<RAOF> It's also an irc proxy?  Nifty.
 * RAOF didn't know that, obviously.
<imbrandon> RAOF: yes it has a proxy built in
<imbrandon> i just connect to my irssi on my linode server instead of freenode with the gui client ;)
<imbrandon> or i ssh in to the linode server and load up the screen session, what ever i'm in the mood for
<imbrandon> ( or more times than not, both via diffrent computers )
 * ajmitch usually just uses irssi+screen
<RAOF> irssi has a very usable interface.
<imbrandon> yea i'd say 80% of the time i got the ssh+irssi route, but i still use the gui for times like when i'm coding so i can get libnotify messages
<imbrandon> somone posted on planet howto get local libnotify messages form irssi+screen via ssh a while back ( a year or two ago ) but i never implmented it, i might go back and look for it
<imbrandon> might be useful
<ScottK> imbrandon: Just install quassel and quit worrying.
<imbrandon> ScottK: hehe i have it installed , and gnome-xchat on mylaptop ;)
<imbrandon> why can hardy-backports not have debhelper 7.0.50 installed :( makes me a sad panda
<micahg> it's --with out it?
<imbrandon> huh
<ScottK> imbrandon: No inherent reason.  We backported debhelper once before.  No reason we couldn't again.
<imbrandon> ScottK: it would make my life MUCH easier, is there alot of rdepends and stuff to check , it seems it would have alot of room for breakage since most all packages depend on it at build time
<imbrandon> if not, lets do it :)
<ScottK> imbrandon: But only stuff in backports, so it's ~safe.
<imbrandon> then all these packages that use the new quilt 30 format can be backported without change
<imbrandon> well assuming that would be the only change
<ScottK> imbrandon: No.  That needs a new dpkg too.
<ScottK> That I won't backport.
<imbrandon> oh sh*t really ?
<imbrandon> damn
<ScottK> Switching those back isn't very hard.
<ScottK> Actually Soyuz won't allow it anyway
<imbrandon> true, i just dident wanna bother if i dident have to, but i guess i will
<ScottK> Figure out what version of debhelper you want and then maybe do a test rebuild of a sampling of the packages currently in hardy-backports.
<imbrandon> well if it needs dpkg too, then there is little point
<imbrandon> but sure
<micahg> imbrandon: I know all the main mozilla stuff is stuck using debhelper 6 conventions until hardy is EOL for Desktop
 * micahg can't wait to move everything to use all the fancy stuff in Lucid debhelper
<imbrandon> :)
<micahg> it cuts the rules files in half usually or more (less to maintain)
 * ajmitch can't wait until lucid is EOL & we have something new & shiny
<micahg> ajmitch: lucid isn't out yet and you can't wait for it to be EOL?
<ajmitch> micahg: sure, 5 years+1 day from now, things will hopefully be quite different
 * micahg wondering what comes after light
<ScottK> Go back and work on packages on Dapper and then see how far we've come.  It's got another year yet.
<imbrandon> hahaha exactly
 * ajmitch won't try & predict when ubuntu may be like in 5 years time
<micahg> ScottK: I guess that's one of the advantages of working with desktop packages ;)
<ajmitch> ScottK: some packages in lucid are still at the same version they were in dapper
<imbrandon> ok so if i do packageing only changes to the version thats in lucid for hardy-backports ( on up for all the supported versions ) what do i version them ?
<ScottK> ajmitch: It will have no options at all, just one big button to click.
<crimsun> in 5 years, OEMs will still be screwing up audio hardware. Hooray?
<ajmitch> ScottK: you must be talking about gnome
<ScottK> ajmitch: Yes.
<ajmitch> crimsun: realist
<imbrandon> ScottK: 0.4.7-0ubuntu1~backport1 ?
<ScottK> imbrandon: Where backport is the release, yes.
<imbrandon> ScottK: yea $dist-backport is the release
<imbrandon> ohh you mean 0.4.7-0ubuntu1~hardy1
<imbrandon> and such
<imbrandon> kk
<ajmitch> it should actually work out,  given how release names progress these days
 * ajmitch was only just in the last couple of days cleaning up some stuff left over from breezy development
<ScottK> It's funny, sometimes I feel like the new guy here and sometimes it seems like I've been here forever.
<ajmitch> yeah
<imbrandon> ScottK: heh yea exactly the same boat
 * ajmitch feels the same way at times
<ajmitch> only been a MOTU for a bit over 5 years now
<imbrandon> i think back i am like damn i rember breezys release, then i rember that was nearly 5 years ago
<imbrandon> then i'm like WOW, i'm old hahhahahaha
<ajmitch> I remember discussing how MOTU could use malone with bradb at UDU
<ajmitch> since everyone else was using bugzilla still
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> just a tad before me
 * ajmitch remembers fondly the days of bugzilla with its 1MB JS file containing all the package names, loaded over HTTPS
<ajmitch> no caching, just pain
 * imbrandon came around about midway through breezy dev cycle iirc
<RAOF> I remember that bugzilla.  Man, launchpad has become much, much more awesome.
<ajmitch> RAOF: it's a lot less painful to use than it used to be
<ScottK> If your claim to fame is > bugzilla, that's not much of a claim.
<imbrandon> lol
<ajmitch> ScottK: I never said LP was great, just less painful than it was
<StevenK> imbrandon: Next year, I will have been a DD for 10 years.
<RAOF> Well, I still see a lot of bugzilla instances :)
<ajmitch> StevenK: you're old
<StevenK> ajmitch: Shush.
<imbrandon> StevenK: wow, i dunno if to say sorry or congrats, lol , j/k gratz man
<ScottK> I don't think anyone else has to be old as long as I'm around.
<ScottK> moko excepted.
<imbrandon> :)
<ajmitch> ScottK: a pity that phil charles hasn't worked on ubuntu
<ajmitch> he's probably one of the older DDs that I know of
 * StevenK is waiting for ScottK to get "upgraded" from old to ancient.
<imbrandon> it is nice to look back at all of this and as much as we hate it sometimes and as much as we love it mostly to say we had a hand in some of it , be it small or big, kinda cool imho
<imbrandon> you know there is one DD i wanna really meet someday , just from reading him on the planet, makes me wanna scrounge the money for debconf this year, is joey hess, dunno why really, just cuz
<StevenK> Joey is an awesome guy
<imbrandon> yea he seems so
 * ajmitch needs to find out how to get the mouse working again in X without restarting X - x2x seems to have given it issues
<StevenK> imbrandon: I met him at Debconf 5
<imbrandon> i really should go this year too, one of the few years its in the US and would be cheaper for me to go
 * ajmitch hasn't been to it yet
<imbrandon> me either, i came really close to going to what #7 i thinkl, the one in mexico
<imbrandon> 7 or 8
<imbrandon> had funds and plans and such, but something else came up
<imbrandon> i still vote for a UDS and/or ubucon in KC, dead middle of the US :)
<ajmitch> might as well have one in NZ
<ajmitch> that way everyone has to fly a long way
<imbrandon> watch as soon as i take a job somewhere else ( just interviewed for a game company in vegas ) it will come to KC , LOL
<ScottK> ajmitch: Bandwidth is better in KC.
<imbrandon> lol
<ScottK> Get Sprint to host it.
<imbrandon> very true, all the fiber in the contry converges here, AND we're about to get a google fiber node
<imbrandon> woot
<imbrandon> i bet sprint really would host it too actualy thinking about it
<imbrandon> i guess there is some things good about being in the middle , litterly
<imbrandon> just sucks for me most of the time cuz i see all the cool tech stuff happening on the coasts and drool
<lifeless> ajmitch: we'd saturate NZ's internet.
<lifeless> :P
<imbrandon> all 56k of it , lol j/k
<jpds> The entire global infra of the world is about to saturate.
<imbrandon> hahahah yea, in less than 24 hours
<StevenK> imbrandon: Wow, when did NZ get upgraded to 56k?
<imbrandon> StevenK: they are bonding 2 14.4 lines + overhead
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> err thats still not right
 * imbrandon facepalms
<StevenK> 28k8?
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> lol
<StevenK> imbrandon: Fail
<imbrandon> i know, i was like ooh good joke, then realized what i typed and was like ugh, fail again
<ScottK> So it was a good joke, just not the one you planned.
<imbrandon> :)
 * ajmitch wishes he got those sort of speeds
<imbrandon> heh seriously , what kinda connection do you normaly have to the greater globe ?
<imbrandon> like 512k-ish at least ?
<imbrandon> ( you not the country )
<imbrandon> lol
<ajmitch> nominally 16Mbps at the DSL modem
<imbrandon> that dosent seem bad, better than mine
 * StevenK is currently on 64/64 3.5GHz crap
<ajmitch> Fetched 531MB in 17min 57s (493kB/s)
<ajmitch> that was fetching from nz.a.u.c earlier
<lifeless> ajmitch: ISP?
 * wgrant is throttled to 64kbps at the moment :(
<ajmitch> lifeless: snap.net.nz
<imbrandon> not terrible, thats about what i get to us.a.u.c
<lifeless> wgrant: too many lp branches?
<imbrandon> wgrant: ouch
<lifeless> imbrandon: us.a.u.c is London though.
<StevenK> wgrant: Same, but this connection is much worse.
<imbrandon> lifeless: really ? heh
<wgrant> Although on the 1st we move from our current 10Mbps 12/24 to a new 20Mbps 85/85, so I can't complain too much.
<lifeless> last I heard, yes.
<imbrandon> wow
<ajmitch> lifeless: you still sorting out an ISP?
<lifeless> ajmitch: with telecom at this rental property
<lifeless> ajmitch: works okish but similarly shitty actual throughput
<lifeless> ajmitch: and the nasty intercepting cache too
<wgrant> imbrandon: Nobody wants to take on the full US load, apparently.
<ajmitch> yeah
<lifeless> wgrant: nobody *can*
<imbrandon> i have an advertised 10Mbs dn and 1Mbs up , but i rarely actualy get that
<wgrant> lifeless: Canonical can! :P
<lifeless> hopefully we'll have mirror syncing sorted for M
<ajmitch> lifeless: are you going to be staying where you are for awhile?
<lifeless> ajmitch: 4 months
<imbrandon> they could use a cdn or something , but that would be $$
<ajmitch> probably not worth switching to another ISP then
<lifeless> ajmitch: will sort stuff out in detail for next place
<lifeless> ajmitch: yeah, totally not worth it. Unless I get too pissed off :P
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> you'll be staying in christchurch after the 4 months is up?
<imbrandon> speaking of ajmitch you ping / round trip to the blizzard servers must suck in NZ
<ajmitch> imbrandon: umm, yes
<imbrandon> wow, never thought of that, sucks
<lifeless> ajmitch: probably, approximately.
<imbrandon> iirc there is only US and EU servers too
<ajmitch> it's a shame I didn't get around to cleaning up some of the zope/plone packages from lucid, I see they're even gone from debian now
<ScottK> I got some of them, but didn't get through them all.
<jayvee> http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=wmi-client
<ajmitch> yeah I saw that zope2.10 was gone, but zope-plone3 remains. No big deal
<jayvee> wmi-client is in Hardy and Intrepid, and not in any later versions. Why is that?
<jayvee> I use the âwinexeâ app out of that package all the time, and itâs really annoying not having it in the latest Ubuntu.
<ajmitch> bug 359637
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 359637 in wmi "Please remove wmi source and wmi-client, python-wmi binaries from jaunty" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/359637
<ScottK> ajmitch: Is it there source and binary or just source?
<ajmitch> ScottK: looks to be source+binary of zope-plone3, BUT it's listed on nz2.archive.ubuntu.com, which may be out of date
<jayvee> Thatâs funny. Iâm running python 2.6 and it installs fine.
<jayvee> I canât remember whether I needed to patch it or not.
<ScottK> ajmitch: Because I thought i got that removed.
<ajmitch> ScottK: you probably did, and the info I've got is most likely outdated :)
<jayvee> There is currently no replacement packaged.
<imbrandon> jayvee: if you can prove its still maintained upstream and builds installs and works as intened then it can get added, but it dosent follow those creteria per debian and ubuntu checks
<jayvee> right, okayu
<imbrandon> man i sooooo want this, but not for $40k USD http://www.novelquest.com/emperor_200.html
<dholbach> good morning
<imbrandon> moins dholbach
<dholbach> hey imbrandon
<ajmitch> morning dholbach  :)
<piju> any ham radio operator here ?
<imbrandon> piju: i would try #ubuntu-hams , ther is a whole community of them
<imbrandon> piju: https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-hams
<piju> imbrandon; yes. you can see im listed
<dholbach> Packaging Training: Fixing small bugs in Ubuntu: in 10 minutes in #ubuntu-classroom - http://is.gd/bLixO
<piju> imbrandon; im calling any ham radio to join #ubuntu-hams
<ajmitch> is the debian BTS being problematic for anyone else?
<nigelbabu>  /ws 27
<Ciemon> nigelbabu: :)
<nigelbabu> Ciemon: irssi and I are learning to get along well
<Ciemon> I was smiling at your tweet
<Ciemon> you've started using irssi? I have a google wave with some useful scripts n things if you want to get colours and split windows and things going
<Ciemon> oh, and you get a mention in the podcast this week, along with dholbach
<dholbach> oh wow, which one is that?
<ajmitch> dholbach: you're famous! :)
<nigelbabu> Ciemon: what? where? when?
<Ciemon> http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/
<Ciemon> it's a long one this time, but you guys get a mention in the Debian Ubuntu relationship seg
<nigelbabu> Ciemon: my tweet, if you're in #ubuntu-release-party you'll understand about it ;)
<nigelbabu> Ciemon: ahah, I was about to come to folks to give a little bit of ad to patch day ;)
<dholbach> nice
<Ciemon> nigelbabu: I did mention that as part of my intro to the seg.. but not with enough clarity. It's something we should do better
<nigelbabu> Ciemon: maybe next time you can talk about the outcome of patch day and how awesome it was! :D
<Ciemon> Yeah, that's a good idea, we're always trying new things, "devs-bit" could be a new part where we talk about such things. Feel free to /msg me whenever you want something mentioning
<nigelbabu> sure :)
<imbrandon> Ciemon: yea dev-bits would be good ;)
<imbrandon> devs-bit*
<kklimonda> good morning
<simon-o> hi
<imbrandon> off to sleep, gnight all
 * Rhonda sighs at all the impatient people denting and tweeting about lucid not there yet. :/
<joaopinto> release madness :)
<ajmitch> Rhonda: same thing every release :)
<ajmitch> Rhonda: thanks for the tip about the other sdl patch on the BTS
<Rhonda> You're more than welcome. :)
<Rhonda> After all if it hinders fixing it for wesnoth, I'm with my users. ;)
<ajmitch> heh
<joaopinto> uff, I need to get some time to fix the virtualbox addons package
<joaopinto> it will break vm upgrades for some people
<ajmitch> joaopinto: how badly?
<joaopinto> ajmitch, if you use the shared folders facility it will give an error on boot and will fail to mount the shared folder
 * ajmitch has lucid in a VM & didn't see too many issues, except when it didn't play nice with one of the kernels
<ajmitch> ah, I only started using the shared folders recently
<joaopinto> because the vmwaresf kernel module is loaded after mountall
<joaopinto> ops
 * ajmitch is just upgrading his desktop to lucid now
<joaopinto> vboxsf
<ajmitch> I really do need a faster desktop box
<MunkyJunky> Hey all - is there a way to package an .sh file into a .deb?
<Rhonda> Just write either a Makefile or the install target in debian/rules by hand.
<Rhonda> And drop the .sh extension from the installed script, it's discouraged for files in /usr/bin and the likes.
<persia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/PackagingWithoutCompiling is a transcript of a MOTU School session with a somewhat silly example case.
<nigelbabu> anyone got a sever with fast access to lp api that I could use for sometime?
<Rhonda> ajmitch: Just to get things straight: I can leave the sdl debdiff generation to you? Would be truly appreciated. :)
<ajmitch> Rhonda: sure, I've got the day off tomorrow
<MunkyJunky> Cheers :)
 * Rhonda hugs ajmitch 
<Rhonda> MunkyJunky: The t-prot package is actually just a script (with some configuration files and manpage) and the debian/rules shouldn't be too complicated. :)
<MunkyJunky> Rhonda: Cheers. Little confusing though, never done packaging before!
<Rhonda> One time is the first time for everyone. :)
<carstenh> is there a ubuntu live cd that includes packages from multiverse (I'm interestend in brother-*)? alternatively, is there a list of packages installed on the ubuntu live-cds?
<geser> carstenh: check the manifest for the ISO of your choice on cdimages.ubuntu.com
<carstenh> sounds good, thanks :)
<micahg> \sh: ping
<slytherin> How frequently is sponsor queue page updated?
<slytherin> dholbach: ^^
<dholbach> slytherin: it shows the "last updated" at the bottom
<\sh> micahg, pong
<dholbach> and I think it's all every 10 minutes
<dholbach> slytherin: but I could imagine that launchpad for obvious reasons is a bit slow right now
<micahg> \sh: I was wondering, since it'll be about a week before we can upload to maverick, if you want to package the latest ZF update and push to people.ubuntu.com, I can push to the PPA the backports
<slytherin> dholbach: The last I checked it few days ago, it was showing a bug which has been fixed for over two weeks. What could be reason?
<\sh> micahg, no..let's wait until maverick is open...
<\sh> it's not that critical ;)
<micahg> \sh: k, I just know how anxious some people are for their zf crack
<dholbach> slytherin: lazr.restfulclient.errors.HTTPError: HTTP Error 503: Service Unavailable
<slytherin> hmm
<dholbach> slytherin: I'll find out what's happening, although it's a bit hard right now
<dholbach> with the is-it-out-yet masses out there :)
<slytherin> yes, right now the page does not load at all.
<\sh> micahg, I just need to add more crack to it ;) there is still an open issue on lp for it
<micahg> \sh: k, no pressure, I can wait :)
 * slytherin is tempted to ask the 'question'. :-)
<dholbach> slytherin: I'll dive into it as soon as the dust settles somewhat
<\sh> micahg, let us just relax...:) well you should...I have too much work @office ;)
<dholbach> slytherin: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2010-April/thread.html
<dholbach> slytherin: if this page doesn't say "it's out", it's not out :)
<slytherin> ha ha
<stevecrozz> I incorrectly created a native package when I meant to create a non-native package... where can I learn how to change that?
<geser> this happens when your .orig.tar.{gz,bz2} is wrongly named
<hyperair> or when you don't have an orig.tar.{gz,bz2}
<dholbach> project_version.orig.tar{gz,bz2}
<Rhonda> stevecrozz: Just put the .orig.tar.{gz,bz2} there and build again. .bz2 though is only supported in source version 3.0
<stevecrozz> thanks everyone, I'm going to try that
<stevecrozz> Rhonda: that appears to do something, but it apparently runs dpkg-source after the build and then fails because the binaries it already build aren't in the orig.tar.gz
<Rhonda> What did you call?
<stevecrozz> debuild
<stevecrozz> it looks like maybe that happened because debian/rules was issuing the build in clean:
<stevecrozz> which seems wrong
<Rhonda> Sounds like. :)
<stevecrozz> Rhonda: do you have a sec to help me with some lintian warnings?
<stevecrozz> W: uwsgi source: diff-contains-substvars debian/substvars
<Rhonda> stevecrozz: That should get cleaned by the debian/rules clean target.
<Rhonda> stevecrozz: See output of "lintian -i" which should give extended description.
<stevecrozz> crap, I forgot today is lucid release day, i wonder how long its going to take for launchpad to build out these PPA packages
<cyphermox> stevecrozz, presumably, a long time
<stevecrozz> yeah, it claims 23 hours at this point
<cyphermox> yeah, ~23 hours for i386, 5 days for amd64 ;)
<geser> is amd64 done with the archive test rebuild? if there are still jobs from it, they are low-scored, so normal PPA uploads come first
<highvoltage> hey motus thanks for all the hard work during this release!
<imbrandon> great job all on a great release!! thanks ScottK ajmitch StevenK dholbach persia geser and the MANY MANY MANY others that make MOTU flow
 * slytherin is sad that MOTU team will fade away soon.
<persia> slytherin: Why would it fade away?
<slytherin> persia: With the concept of components being removed I thought team will go away.
<persia> Not at all, it's just transforming.
<persia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Specs/LucidMOTU has the new componentless description.
<persia> Essnetially, instead of being responsible for "universe", MOTU will be responsible for taking care of the many packages that have no dedicated team.
<imbrandon> slytherin: yea its just a semantics change, very little will actualy change, basicly imho its like MOTU is becomming collab-maint and everything is in "main"
<slytherin> that's nice
<imbrandon> thus packages without a direct maintainer or team will be unter MOTU
<imbrandon> under*
<persia> Right.  It's just a semantic adjustment because components are going away.  Team does the same stuff.
<kklimonda> persia: btw, now that I remember and you are nearby :) - should ppu rights make me a part of ~ubuntu-dev ?
<persia> kklimonda: Yes, it should.
<persia> kklimonda: I suspect it has something to do with load, but I can't stay logged into launchpad right now.
<persia> If you're not a member by this weekend, bug me about it, and I'll sort you.
<kklimonda> right, launchpad has slowed down after release was whas been announced ;)
<kklimonda> ok, it's time for me to get some sleep - the last sentence didn't make much sense..
<persia> kklimonda: Before you go: do you happen to know a good doc I could use to make transmission-daemon mirror the Ubuntu torrents I have?
<stevecrozz> my amd64 ppa package is scheduled ahead of its i386 counterpart
<persia> stevecrozz: You might want to ask in #launchpad
<micahg> stevecrozz: there's nothing wrong with that
<stevecrozz> yeah, its not really a question, just an observation
<kklimonda> persia: do you mean a general documentation for daemon or something specific ?
<slytherin> stevecrozz: The scheduling depends on the load the PPA build daemons have.
<persia> Just a quick-start guide.  I have ~20 torrents that I'd like to seed, and don't torrent much.
<hyperair> afaik just start the torrent, point it at the directory with your ubuntu torrents, let it scan, find that it's 100%, and then start seeding?
<persia> hyperair: Do you know how to do that with transmission-daemon?  I've no GUI, and no desire to have ~20 separate screen instances for transmissioncli
<hyperair> persia: no idea. i use deluge.
<hyperair> persia: just open one CLI client, and let deluged do its job after adding all the torrents..
<hyperair> but that's deluge.
<persia> hyperair: duluge has a CLI client?
<hyperair> persia: sure it does. deluge -u console
<sebner> transmission ftw!
<hyperair> deluge ftw!
<persia> But that's in the deluge package, and I'm not installing that stack of dependencies on my server!
<hyperair> okay sebner you tell persia what to do =p
 * sebner only uses GUI
 * sebner is a GUI fanboy
 * sebner is a GUI fanboy
 * sebner is a GUI fanboy
<hyperair> persia: er what?
<hyperair> deluge-console: /usr/bin/deluge-console
<hyperair> deluge: /usr/bin/deluge
<hyperair> so it's just deluge-console and deluged
<hyperair> it seems deluge -u console is an artifact of the past, and i'm outdated.
 * persia isn't that happy about installing boost and twisted, but tries it.
<kklimonda> ugh, lost connection.. sorry about that
<hyperair> heheh
<slytherin> persia: Let me try on my machine and I will tell you.
<kklimonda> persia: you can just run transmission-daemon -t -u user -v password -w /path/to/downloaded/files
<hyperair> persia: http://github.com/fagga/transmission-remote-cli  <-- this screenshot says you can have multiple torrents open in one transmissioncli instance?
<kklimonda> persia: and then add torrents either by using a web gui or transmission-remote
<persia> kklimonda: That won't interfere with the transmission-daemon started by the system?
<kklimonda> persia: http://trac.transmissionbt.com/wiki/HeadlessUsage you can read more here.
<persia> The web gui and transmission-remte both failed for me.  Never mind.  Sleep well :)
<persia> Thanks.  That looks helpful.
<kklimonda> persia: the system deamon is a scary thing and has two ugly bugs in lucid that have to be fixed with updates :/
<persia> Ah.  That explains why it didn't work for me :)
<kklimonda> persia: you can use it but (1) you have to edit /var/lib/transmission-daemon/info/settings.json and not /etc/transmission-daemon/settings.json and (2) change rpc-enabled to true in settings.json - then you could dump iso files in /var/lib/transmission-daemon/downloads/, change their owner to debian-transmission and use transmission-remote or webgui.. pretty easy, right? ;)
<imbrandon> persia: for the moment if you want you can run the cli "btlaunchmanycurses ./" in the dir with all your *.torrents and manage it via screen , its not a daemon but good for short term seeds ( like ubuntu )
<imbrandon> persia: thats part of bittornado
<persia> kklimonda: I'll try that.  Thanks.
<persia> imbrandon: I want a daemon so I can just forget about it.  I have absolutely no desire to manage the torrents.
<persia> Right.  Even following the steps it didn't work for me :(
 * persia tries the next one on the list.
<imbrandon> persia: well by manage i mean more of kill screen when you want to stop the torrents, there is no "management" in that case, you dump them all in one dir and run the client, it does everythiung with no further input required
<persia> hyperair: deluge-console is *also* set up to manage stuff, and fails because it's not connected to a server.
 * persia is liking this idea
<hyperair> persia: hmm?
<hyperair> manage stuff?
<hyperair> what do you mean?
<persia> hyperair: It fails because it's not connected to a server.  It's an interface to manage a server.
<hyperair> eh yeah, it's a frontend.
<persia> I think more things changed since you last tried it :)
<hyperair> why, were you expecting something else?
<hyperair> that's why you need deluged
<hyperair> that's the deluge daemon.
<hyperair> if you want something that will die when your screen session goes off, then use rtorrent.
<ari-tczew> wiki.ubuntu.com has been failed down :/
<persia> ari-tczew: overloaded.
<persia> hyperair: You didn't mention that before :)
<hyperair> persia: yeah, that's because i thought you wanted something that had a daemon that continued running even if your screen session disappears.
<hyperair> looks like i misunderstood =\
<persia> No you understood my requirements.  I misunderstood your directions, and tried to just run deluge-console, which failed, as it didn't have deluged installed.
<hyperair> oh heh
<hyperair> i see.
<hyperair> whoops
 * hyperair keeps fingers crossed and restarts X
<hyperair> oh yeah, why does plymouth look like some purple-screened text-based UI?
<hyperair> it looked like monotype text + fullstops as the progress bar..
<persia> You're running the text theme.  Use a different theme if you want fancy.
<hyperair> eh? how do you change it?
<highvoltage> hyperair: also depends on what you display card drivers support, if it can't show graphics it falls back to text
<hyperair> highvoltage: i've got KMS.
<hyperair> i965.
<highvoltage> hyperair: perhaps the text theme just became your default for some reason, you can check in /lib/plymouth/themes
<highvoltage> there's a symlink (which is an update-alternative alternative) which selects your theme
<hyperair> ah
<hyperair> yes, it's the text theme.
<hyperair> text.plymouth, right?
<hyperair> the symlink, thati s
<hyperair> hmm i only have the text theme
<highvoltage> there should be two
<highvoltage> text.plymouth which selects your text theme
<highvoltage> and default.plymouth which selects your graphical theme
<hyperair> weird, for some reason, not all of the new Recommends: from ubuntu-desktop got installed.
<hyperair> make that none of the new Recommends:
<stevecrozz> is dh_installman the preferred way to install man pages?
<Rhonda> stevecrozz: Depends. That usually is only required for additional manpages that aren't installed by the upstream makefiles already.
<persia> Not really: the preferred way is for the upstream build system to install them in the right places.  But if must do it in packaging, yes, use dh_installman.  Note that if you use /usr/share/doc/debhelper/examples/rules.tiny or similar, this is called automatically, if you have debian/${PACKAGE}.manpages
<zookos> Whoo! Ubuntu Lucid is gold! Congratulations, folks!
<YokoZar> Is it too late to hit the rebuild button on launchpad?
<Rhonda> I would like to set bug #109434 for wesnoth to won't fix but can't. Anyone around who can do that?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 109434 in wesnoth-1.8 "Installing a server for a game automatically auto-inits and runs every boot." [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/109434
<Laney> doing
<Laney> done
<DaveMorris> ok, I've been busy for the last 8-9 months, and a user contacted me today about the packages I produced not been in Lucid.  Turns out they where deleted - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/495216 - anyway to get them back in for the next release?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 495216 in ubuntu "mass removal of old and unpopular packages" [Undecided,Fix released]
<micahg> DaveMorris: are you looking to get it into just Ubuntu or through Debian as well?
<DaveMorris> well it was in Ubuntu, so I assume it would be easy enough to get it back in
<DaveMorris> since although it didn't have any reverse dependences within the archives, since it was for developers it will break lots of users code.
<DaveMorris> the reason it had no updates, is because the new version hasn't been released yet
 * DaveMorris is kinda annoyed they got removed, but I guess I should of paid more attention to the mailing list. :/
<micahg> I don't know if I'll be able to help (not a MOTU), but which package
<DaveMorris> opensg (sorry I forgot to mention that)
<DaveMorris> was the source package
<persia> Putting it back is trivial, really, although we can't get it into lucid.  The trick is to do some upload at least once a year or so.
<DaveMorris> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/opensg
 * micahg thinks it might have been an oversight since it was never in Debian to begin with
<DaveMorris> I'll produce a PPA for lucid I guess
<DaveMorris> persia: so stuff which isn't updated is very likely to get removed then?
<persia> I believe the set of removed packages was those that had never been in Debian and had not been updated since 8.04.
<micahg> DaveMorris: there's the option of backports also
<DaveMorris> oh, I forgot about those
<DaveMorris> so whats the procedure to get them added back in for lucid+1 (whats it called anywya)
<persia> DaveMorris: Stuff that's Ubuntu-local and claimed to be maintained by the Ubuntu Developers needs to either have activity, or have some developers who say they care for it if there is no activity.  If you expect the package to be mostly dormant, but want to declare that you're maintaining it, the Debian maintenance model may be a better fit.
<DaveMorris> for the Debian maintenance model, does that mean I have to get it into Debian?
<persia> Yes, but you get to put your name on it, and nobody can remove it without checking with you (unless you're incredibly unresponsive to email)
<persia> But if it was in good enough shape to be approved for Ubuntu, there's a strong chance it's in good enough shape to be approved for Debian.  You may want to update it to current packaging standards though, as some things have changed in the past couple years.
<DaveMorris> my name was already in the control file, XSBC-Original-Maintainer: David Morris <david.morris@greenacre.no-ip.com>
<persia> Yes, but Original-Maintainer isn't a declaration of maintenance, nor does Ubuntu support the concept of individual package maintainers.
<DaveMorris> ok, once I've sorted out a PPA for this user, I'll look at getting it into Debian. Thanks for your help guys
<persia> Unfortunately, I'm not sure this is well communicated, and it sometimes catches folks like you.
<DaveMorris> yeah, I thought I would of got a mail asking about it tbh
<persia> If you run into issues getting it into Debian, or have questions about policy changes, etc. feel free to ask here.  And please let us know once it gets into Debian and we'll be sure to make sure we sync it.
<DaveMorris> I don't suppose there is a list of policy changes over the last 2 years?
<persia> Sorry about that: we tend to assume everyone reads the mailing lists, as it's something we require of ourselves.
<persia> It's the changelog of the debian-policy package.
<DaveMorris> I tend to read the subjects (for this one it was "list of removal candidates"), but if I get busy I don't have time.  I tend not to read the body of every mail I get (not enought time)
<persia> I understand entirely :)  For myself, I tend to try to read as little email as possible.
<persia> There should also have been a bug filed against the package to request the removal, which ought to have caught bug subscribers.  If there wasn't, that's a flaw in our process we ought fix.
<DaveMorris> I can't see a bug against it
 * persia hunts
<micahg> persia: there was bulk bug 495216
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 495216 in ubuntu "mass removal of old and unpopular packages" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/495216
<persia> Yeah, seems like a process failure.  nobody added the tasks to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/495216
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 495216 in ubuntu "mass removal of old and unpopular packages" [Undecided,Fix released]
<persia> Looking at the list again, it appears that we're just as guilty as Sony for dropping support for PS3.
<DaveMorris> hehe
<DaveMorris> so do you normally file a removal request bug on each package indvidually?
<persia> Usually, excepting when we remove packages we get fom Debian in response to removals from Debian (because in that case, there's already a bug in Debian)
<persia> This is the first time we've experimented with the mass-unmaintained-package removal though.  I expect we'll go through a similar exercise for the next LTS, although I hope we'll end up with tasks for all the packages for that bug.
#ubuntu-motu 2010-04-30
<imbrandon> ugh i really should stay off twitter
<imbrandon> internet argument about why ubuntu should just give up and let debian do everything .... :(
<persia> There's both positive and negative bits about that argument.  Mostly depends on the maintainer.
<persia> But I think the only sane response is to actively work to make that the case where the maintainers are happy to collaborate.
<persia> (but this is action, not participation in the debate)
<imbrandon> right
<imbrandon> oh well i gotta get some code done , on what i dunno yet, just something to take me away from tweets ;)
<persia> We should probably get DCT going again, but it really requires someone who has the time and interest to be the DCT leader, and isn't someone who does something else.
<imbrandon> DCT ?
<persia> Debian Collaboration Team.  It's come and gone a few times, but hasn't been active for a while.
<imbrandon> ahh yea, i just hadent known it by that name
<imbrandon> yea it would eat alot of time for whomever
<persia> This is different than Utnubu.
<persia> Utnubu is/was a Debian project to get Ubuntu patches merged, and get Ubuntu packages in.
<imbrandon> i dont think collaboration is the main issue in this guys case though, he just seems to fail to realize that Ubuntu exists because it has a diffrent goal than Debian, not to be "a better debian"
<persia> DCT was/is an Ubuntu project to reduce total delta and improve communication with various Maintainers.
<persia> They are complementary, but were always different.
<persia> Oh, for several classes of users, Ubuntu is a degraded Debian.
<persia> It's just different, to meet specific goals.
<imbrandon> right, and thats what i dont think he understands, its not like debian for everyone e.g. "a universal os" its for a very specific use case, even if that use case gets expanded over the years ;)
<ajmitch> but it's an argument on the internet, how can you back down?
<imbrandon> :)
<persia> ajmitch: Apparently the strategy is to bring it to other forums, to make it harder to filter :)
<persia> imbrandon: "set of use cases", but yeah.  Ubuntu isn't universal, and doesn't try to be.
<ajmitch> is here where we're meant to jump on debian & have the 2 minutes of hate?
<imbrandon> true
<imbrandon> so i ran across a perl twitter client today, must i say "for the love of everything that is good, WHY!"
<persia> imbrandon: So, you're bored, and want a coding project?
<wgrant> Better than PHP-GTK.
<ajmitch> wgrant: don't tempt him
<imbrandon> persia: yup
<imbrandon> wgrant: hahahahah i was just talking to ajmitch about that yesterday
<persia> imbrandon: CLI NetworkManager client, for when X crashes.  Does the appropriate things with D-Bus and the DE data stores.  Make sure it works for all of GNOME/KDE/XFCE/headless.
<jdong> persia: CNetworkManager?
<imbrandon> persia: dosent that exist ?
<jdong> http://vidner.net/martin/software/cnetworkmanager/
<persia> jdong: I heard that project was stagnant.
<imbrandon> ahhh /me will dig into it
<jdong> oh. it workedforme
<jdong> but Ubuntu packaging and refreshing is awesome too :)
 * ajmitch just wants a working wireless driver :)
<persia> jdong: I'm not fussy if it's fixing found code or creating new code :)
<jdong> :)
<persia> But nm-tool just doesn't even pretend to be enough.
<imbrandon> persia / jdong : sounds like just the proj i need :) /me starts diggin
<imbrandon> main problem i can think of right off is kde and gnome store the nm info diffrently dont they
<imbrandon> for say staticly configured interfaces
<imbrandon> since they dont use /etc/network/*
<persia> imbrandon: Right, so you have to come up with some minimal-deps client code that checks to see if the store exists, then tries to pull secrets from it, etc.
<imbrandon> right
<persia> Because you don't just want the static IPs, but also things like passphrases for wireless or VPNs, etc.
<imbrandon> yea, it might be tricky if it configured diffrently for like say kde and gnome on the same box
<persia> And if the store requires authentication to access, you need to plug into the authentication mechanisms, etc.
<persia> cNetworkManager is a start, but there's lots of integration missing :)
<imbrandon> yup, and atleast its python ;)
<imbrandon> ohh this looks fun, and actualy no my assumption was wrong, it somehow actualy stores the info per user via NM not via a DE datastore
<imbrandon> not sure exactly how yet, but that makes things easier
 * imbrandon goes to graba  mt dew and fetches the tarbal
<imbrandon> the ubutnu-server seed include python i would assume , correct ?
<persia> python-minimal is in the minimal task.
<persia> Hrm.  python is also in the minimal task.  Why do we have python-minimal again?
<imbrandon> probably an older holdover
<JanC> persia: python-minimal is for people who want to go really minimal AFAIK  ;)
<MTecknology> persia: for people like me that are insane to the core :D
<MTecknology> ... if I ever learn python..
<persia> I thought it was a subset that was supposed to be in ubuntu-minimal, with the rest in ubuntu-standard.  I suspect python got into minimal because of default-recommends, and minimal may benefit from renewed analysis (and specifically close comparison between no-install-recommends and default)
<JanC> looks mostly useful for limited tasks on an embedded system
<persia> MTecknology: The package is specifically that subset of python that was really a dependency of that subset of packages that was considered really minimal.  I don't imagine anyone would intentionally use it, although many would be happy to install fewer modules on a system that's intended to be minimal, and not likely to run some arbitrary set of python programs.
<persia> JanC: I think the target was more appliance VM than embedded system, but something like that.
<JanC> it doesn't even include support for databases, xml parsing, etc.
<MTecknology> persia: I was making a crack at how minimal I made my system. granted I should probably add some of the stuff in ubuntu-minimal back to my system..
<persia> JanC: Right, which I don't really need for e.g. a static webserver, or a DNS server.
<MTecknology> Is there any reason most configs are ~/.xxx sintead of ~/.config/xxx or something like that?
<MTecknology> imo .config is a lot cleaner
<JanC> MTecknology: because ~/.config didn't exist in the past
<JanC> it's an XDG invention
<MTecknology> oh
<MTecknology> any chance people might start moving to it in the distant future?
<JanC> people are already moving
<MTecknology> cool :)
<JanC> but if upstream thinks it is "not traditional unix"...  ;)
<MTecknology> then we slam em!
<MTecknology> or let'm do what they please :P
<JanC> at least ~/.blah is better than ~/blah
<MTecknology> ya... I remember using some of those apps a while back
<JanC> (yes there are those who do that)
<MTecknology> I think I had to use on eof those a couple months ago - forgot the name though - I know jagex does it
<ScottK> YokoZar: Not sure if anyone answered this, but it is too late to hit retry, but DEPWAIT fix is a legit SRU, so you do a debian/changelog only upload to lucid-proposed.
<ScottK> jdong: https://launchpad.net/lucid-backports
<imbrandon> ScottK: is there a bug# ?
<ScottK> imbrandon: For?
<imbrandon> ScottK: i forget now
<jdong> ScottK: thanks!
 * imbrandon goes through the list of -backports for someting to approve/defer/test
<imbrandon> jdong: wanna approve lp 480547 , you initial assesment looks like the way to go
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 480547 in karmic-backports "memcached pretty darn out of date." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/480547
<imbrandon> otherwise it would require a source change backport that could be done later
<imbrandon> for jaunty
<jdong> imbrandon: ok
<jdong> imbrandon:have you checked lucid -> karmic?
<imbrandon> only cursorly, when i did the lucid update a week or two ago
<imbrandon> i can do more in-depth if wanted
<imbrandon> in otherwords i know it builds and installs, but as far as working as inteneded  in karmic no idea
<jdong> imbrandon: ok back when I looked at the backport it definitely worked
<imbrandon> man i LOVE the Ubuntu One Music store, LOVE it , heh
<imbrandon> ScottK: i'm guessing the etoys intrepid-proposed sru was rejected b/c support ?
<imbrandon> lfaraone ^^
<micahg> jdong: would a locales package that was forgotten be ok for an SRU?
<jdong> micahg: that sounds reasonable to me
<micahg> jdong: k, thanks
<ScottK> imbrandon: Yes.
<suji11> hi
<persia> hey
<imbrandon> heya
<suji11> Already iok is in ubuntu repository, i followed this site https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/PackageUpdate and update the iok package, now what i do to bring this to ubuntu repository?
<suji11> i uploaded this to in my launchpad https://launchpad.net/~suji87-msc/+archive/ppa
<persia> suji11: Which source format did you use for the package?
<suji11> persia: Source format means?
<persia> If you ask, you used 1.0 :)
<persia> Just attach the diff.gz to a bug requesting upload, and subscribe ubuntu-sponsors.
<persia> Note that maverick isn't open yet, so nobody *can* upload it for probably a week to ten days.
<suji11> persia: where to upload the diff.gz and should i upload the latest version of iok's diff.gz am right?
<persia> Attach the diff.gz you want reviewed for inclusion in the repository to a bug requesting an upgrade or update of iok.
<persia> Do not attach the original tarball: be sure that your diff.gz has all necessary information to produce the original tarball in debian/watch, debian/copyright, debian/README.source, and debian/rules.
<suji11> persia: ok, where to i upload the diff.gz ?
<persia> Attach the diff.gz you want reviewed for inclusion in the repository to a bug requesting an upgrade or update of iok.
<imbrandon> using bug trackers is much more fun when music is playing /me is glad to have his music collection sync'd back to the laptop
<warp10> wgrant: please, could you renew my membership in ~motuscience?
<wgrant> warp10: Done.
<warp10> wgrant: great, thanks!
<Rhonda> 7who
<Rhonda> Laney: Thanks - didn't see it yesterday anymore, was off then already. :)
<dholbach> good morning
<adahendra> morning
<dholbach> hey adahendra
<Rhonda> loha
<imbrandon> moins dholbach
<dholbach> hey Rhonda, hi imbrandon
<adahendra> hai dholbach
<Rhonda> grmlmonster got released yesterday, too. :)
<Rhonda> So it was two releases for me.
<YokoZar> ScottK: uploaded to proposed then :)
* DktrKranz changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Lucid is out! - lucid-proposed is open - get to work on SRUs! | Want to get involved with the MOTU? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Sponsor queue: http://is.gd/2y76G | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs | http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs/ | latest rebuild failures: http://udd.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu_ftbfs.cgi
<eagles0513875> just in here to thanks you guys for making another great release :) with lucid
<lfaraone> imbrandon: understood.
<lfaraone> Can I perform SRU verification for my own SRU uploads?
<geser> lfaraone: I doubt it, or would you propose a fix which doesn't work for you?
<Guest32482> Hello M. lucas
<Guest32482> Is it possible to compile/use rubyripper on Ubuntu 10.04 without hang?
<fabrice_sp> Hi. Does it makes sense to fix the FTBFS, and document the SRU, if this is a new package in Lucid? (it's for rabbit)
<geser> yes
<Guest32482> Is it possible to make a package of a software e.g. rubyripper, which will be independant of ruby-related libraries?
<fabrice_sp> geser, if the yes was for me, it's for https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rabbit
<geser> fabrice_sp: yes, the "yes" was for you. The SRU page mentions FTBFS as a valid reason for an SRU.
<fabrice_sp> I know, but as this package has never been in Ubuntu, I was trying to see if it's worth a SRU or not
<fabrice_sp> but the fix is easy, so I'll upload it to -proposed :-)
<geser> if the package works afterwards, then SRU it
<fabrice_sp> ok. I saw another one (because of missing locales-all in Ubuntu). I'll upload it also then
<geser> it's even less risky as you don't replace any old debs (from an previous successful build)
<fabrice_sp> thanks!
<lfaraone> geser: good point.
<cody-somerville> ScottK, Does the backports team regularly backport dpkg-dev?
<imbrandon> cody-somerville: looking i dont see any backports for it , ever
<imbrandon> cody-somerville: and i dont rember processesing any
<cody-somerville> k0p, thanks
<cody-somerville> doh
<cody-somerville> okay, thanks :)
<jdong> cody-somerville: I think dpkg-dev qualifies as a package I'm afraid to touch ;-)
<jdong> namely, it's in the "cjwatson can feel free to do whatever he wants to it!" category :)
<cody-somerville> Theres a lot of stuff in it. I think some of it should probably be split out.
<imbrandon> release party here in a few hours , woot
<ubuntujenkins> I am trying to get a package to place a pdf in /usr/share/docs/pdf . any suggestions or hints on how i get a package to do that. Also does it matter that the "ubuntu-manual" folder doesn't exist?
<ubuntujenkins> */usr/share/docs/ubuntu-manual
<azop> ubuntujenkins: are you trying to install something else to /usr/share/docs/ubuntu-manual?
<azop> s/install/copy
<ubuntujenkins> azop: I have five files that need placing in different places in the os. Its just a bunch of latex icons and a font.
<ubuntujenkins> I would like to do it with a package as the aim is to make it easier for others
<azop> Well, you would need to create the ubuntu-manual directory if you plan to copy files into it during the install
<ubuntujenkins> Thats as i guessed how would i go about it? I am quite happy to read info if you have some suggestions
<carstenh> ubuntujenkins: don't trust random scripts someone you don't know gave you on irc :) after you checked that http://stateful.de/~carsten/tmp/100430U3x0e6FxXjg/dir2deb doesn't do any harm you could create a directory structure, place things that belong to /usr/bin in yourpackagename/usr/bin and so on and finally run DEBFULLNAME="Ubuntu Jenkins" DEBEMAIL="ubuntujenkins@example.com" dir2deb yourpackagename. this creates the ...
<carstenh> ... yourpackagename/debian directory needed to build the package, to actually build it you chdir to it and run "dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -us -uc".  this semi-automatically created package is of course nothing you could upload without modification (because of missing package description, the lack of a useful copyright ...).
<carstenh> ubuntujenkins: if you want an example of an official package that does just place some file somewhere take a look at the source package of debian-goodies
<ubuntujenkins> carstenh: thanks very much just what i need to know, I shall have a play with it all and see what i can come up with.
<carstenh> ubuntujenkins: playing is a good way of learning :) the debian/rules file dir2deb creates uses a uncommon syntax since it was never thought to be published or used for educational purposes
<ubuntujenkins> carstenh: Does that need adjusting to be correct?
<ubuntujenkins> *corrected
<carstenh> ubuntujenkins: it is correct. 2 + 1 = 3 is correct as is 2 + 1 = 6/2
<ubuntujenkins> ok i see its just a different way of doing it then :)
<carstenh> ubuntujenkins: it's just not the best example of a rules files, the place to look for such examples is /usr/share/doc/debhelper/
<carstenh> relevant documentation from debian is linked from www.debian.org/devel but since you ask on an ubuntu channel ubuntu documentation seems to fit better, maybe you can find something useful in the urls mentioned in the channel toopic
<ubuntujenkins> ok thanks carstenh
<mannyv> if I wanted t ohelp out with some sru's how would i go about finding candidate packages?
<ubuntujenkins> What i forgot to ask was when the package installs I would like it to run updmap --enable Map ccicons.map  as the last thing it does. How would i go about adding that? Is it even possible?
<carstenh> ubuntujenkins: dh_installtex might do this already, if not, ask google: site:debian.org debian policy postinst
<ubuntujenkins> ok thanks carstenh
#ubuntu-motu 2010-05-01
 * hyperair wonders if anyone here has had issues with plymouth..
<hyperair> er i mean mountall + plymouth
<hyperair> fsck seems to hang
<Pici> bug 571707
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 571707 in mountall "fsck at bootstrap is too slow" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/571707
<arand> hyperair: I just posted a workaround in description ;)
<hyperair> arand: i tried that, it didn't seem to work very well for me.
<hyperair> arand: in particular, did you try watching your hard disk light?
<hyperair> arand: the hard disk light turns off and stays that way after 80%
<arand> hyperair: And spoke to keybuk, which said that it will likely take acouple of weeks before it will be addressed..
 * hyperair sighs
<hyperair> lucid's in a pretty sad state eh..
<arand> hyperair: Yes, that's the same as I had I think.
<hyperair> arand: does your hd light come back on when you switch ttys?
<arand> hyperair: We've gone from no sound in karmic to no boot in lucid, it's not a good trade...
<arand> hyperair: I could test I guess, I'm using a virtualbox for it.
<hyperair> arand: no sound in karmic?
<hyperair> arand: i had plenty of sound.
<arand> hyperair: Yea, me too, but that seemed to be the one common bug that people saw in karmic.
<hyperair> arand: but what was the cause of the issue?
<hyperair> hmm maybe it was pulseaudio hanging, it seemed pretty prone to hanging in karmic.
<arand> hyperair: A couple of things, the old kernel on upgrade, the simple volume muted... At least my impression of karmic was that it was the "nosound" release, if naming from issues.
<hyperair> lol
<hyperair> karmic was that golden release for me.. =\
<hyperair> besides intrepid
<hyperair> jaunty was shit.
<hyperair> lucid... *groan*
<hyperair> well i expect lucid.1 will be better.
<arand> In hindsight, plymouth might not have been the bestest... But then again, it was tried and discarded in karmic, so it made a whole lot of sense to push it now or never...
<hyperair> on the contrary.
<hyperair> we should have pushed it in karmic
<hyperair> that would have made for a solid LTS.
<hyperair> what we have now is a LTS full of partially implemented changes.
<arand> Yea, but a very unkarmic koala though...
<hyperair> one is plymouth. another is the initramfs-tools resume script. and yet another is the application indicators, as not all the apps have been ported over to use them yet
<arand> Hmm, fsck halts at 70% and HD activity is null.
<hyperair> ye
<hyperair> now try switching vts
<hyperair> and check the HD activity
<hyperair> does it return?
<arand> still no activity
<arand> when switching back to splash it's up to 90%
<hyperair> hmm
<hyperair> interesting
<hyperair> does it go past 90%?
<hyperair> i fell asleep at 90% and just ctrl+alt+del'd my way out
<jdong> *cringe* ah, doesn't all this parallel startup bring back memories of Windows XP bootup problems?
<arand> And then switching back to VT, and it boots in 10 seconds
<jdong> "ah it's hanging at the blue screen with the cursor and nothing's happening!"
<arand> So it seems it takes two VT-switches to get it past... *scratches head*
<arand> And if I switch to early, the fsck is interrupted...
<hyperair> jdong: oh yay we're finally reaching where windows XP was... er how many years ago? =p
<hyperair> lol
<jdong> hyperair: ;-)
<jdong> hyperair: well we still have to figure out how to actually move blocks around ;-)
<hyperair> jdong: blocks?
<jdong> hyperair: http://jdong.mit.edu/~jdong/ureadahead-pack.svg
<jdong> hyperair: that's the disk access pattern during bootup for Ubuntu ;-)
<hyperair> whoa.
<jdong> hyperair: Windows since XP on idle will move all boot blocks together to the front of the disk.
<hyperair> interesting.
<jdong> hyperair: and Vista/7 takes it further by using some fancy machine learning algorithm to lay out the disk
<hyperair> ._.
<hyperair> interesting.
<jdong> (and prefetch things into cache before they're asked for)
<hyperair> sounds like they're ahead of us.
<jdong> so hehe it's interesting to see Ubuntu walk down that path.
<hyperair> heh
<jdong> hyperair: well why else does a 20GB Windows 7 install boot pretty much the same speed as a 1.2GB Ubuntu install? :-/
<hyperair> jdong: good point.
<hyperair> well we still boot much faster than vista and xp though
<hyperair> \o/
<hyperair> despite not using far-fetched algos
<jdong> well sure, but that's like saying my lawnmower gets better fuel economy than a ferrari ;-)
<hyperair> i imagine if we did something like that, we'd break our 10-second goal
<hyperair> jdong: well said =p
<hyperair> so we should have something like this for the next gsoc
<jdong> hyperair: yeah I think that'll be our next step. at least the ability to statically use ext4 defrag APIs to move boot files together.
<hyperair> basically some hack that allows a userspace program to tell the kernel to shift these blocks where
<jdong> hyperair: and in the future, the ability to dynamically do this via btrfs
<hyperair> ooh e4defrag huh
<hyperair> yay btrfs
<arand> Aw.. what on earth, it doesn't work with normal VT-switching, I need to ude ctrl+al+arrow, and do it twice for it to work properly, ...the fish!?
<arand> Hang on, not even that, just arrowkeys works... I wonder if plymouth interprets arrowkeys in some special fancy way..
<hyperair> the "C" doesn't work for me
<arand> hyperair: No, seems like plymouth itself is almost gone at this point
<hyperair> arand: heh?
<hyperair> hmmm i discovered something.
<hyperair> it seems that X has a tendency to hang under some circumstances if started without "splash"
<arand> Horray for more bugs!
<crimsun> polemic users always make me a sad panda.
<cody-somerville> lol
<slytherin> Rhonda: The wesnoth packages you had posted are not accessible anymore.
<slytherin> Rhonda: there?
<ghostcube> anyone from the ppa nvidia vdpau team here?
<alkisg> My package contains a twisted module. I install it with the distutils Â» setup() Â» py_modules variable, and it goes to /usr/share/pyshared/twisted/plugins/myplugin.py. But in order for it to work a symlink is also needed in /usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/twisted/plugins/myplugin.py. What's the normal way to create that symlink? I can't find it in any docs...
<imbrandon> any git guru's round ?
#ubuntu-motu 2010-05-02
<imbrandon> persia: ping
<persia> ?
<imbrandon> heya
<imbrandon> i've been poking at the nm cli thing a bit
<imbrandon> and it seems there are a few projects doing the same thing, one looks very very promising and is feature complete
<imbrandon> its python, called nmcli, only preoblem is its only been "released" via an attachment to the NM Mailing list
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> soo i've wruitten the author and asked for an website/repository etc, gonna try to get it in maverick
<imbrandon> written*
<persia> And it works with GNOME/KDE/XFCE/no-X/etc. ?
<imbrandon> yup
<persia> http://github.com/mvidner/nmcli.git ?
<imbrandon> nm ( the backend ) actualy has ways to handle that
<imbrandon> most just dont use it
<imbrandon> like really right now on cli you could make a dbus call to nm and have it read your knetworkmanger connections
<imbrandon> nmcli is just kinda a pretty interface to that
<persia> nifty!
<persia> Have you tried it against lucid yet?
<imbrandon> yea, just a little
<imbrandon> havent done it alone yet , only been messing with it about ~30 mintues
<imbrandon> seen a post about it on planet gnome
<imbrandon> ( it was mentioned in passing with other nm core updates )
<imbrandon> its also totaly python
<imbrandon> ( and tiny )
<imbrandon> persia: here is a url where someone put it in their personal git repo
<imbrandon> http://github.com/mvidner/nmcli
<imbrandon> with a few enhancements, but you can atlease "see" it then
<persia> So, do the existing frontends need to be adjusted to match dcbw's blog post, or ought it just work?
<imbrandon> not 100% sure yet
<imbrandon> but i think they need to be changed
<imbrandon> err dont*
<imbrandon> i think thats more of "this is how it works now, but i bet you dident know" kinda thing
<imbrandon> atleast thats what i'm understanding
<persia> Hope so.  That sounds like it could be precisely the missing bit for stuff like client-ad-hoc-servers (e.g. portable distro mirror that autoconnects to current network), folks working to fix X issues, etc.
<imbrandon> yup
<imbrandon> brb switching terminals
 * imbrandon returns
<imbrandon> replacing my lucid install with squeeze on my laptop ( and still using my existing ext4 /home ) wasent as painfull as i figured it would be
<ari-tczew> is maverick open for development?
<imbrandon> ari-tczew: not yet
<imbrandon> ari-tczew: somewhere arround the 6th
<persia> ari-tczew: If you want, you can get a head start by preparing some of the stuff that helps achieve what you want to get done for maverick.  If you're just looking for something to do, consider SRUs for lucid RCbugs.
<ari-tczew> persia: I'm not looking for something to do. ;-) I have a lot of work.
<ari-tczew> bugs subscribed to ~motu-swat says me that I won't be bored. ;-)
<c_korn> what does NBS mean ? it is the reason for the removal of this package: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/i386/python-gtkhtml2
<geser> Not Build from Source (no source package builds this binary package anymore)
<c_korn> k, thanks. now I need to find out if another package provides the same functionality now
<imbrandon> ok hum
<imbrandon> if i have DEB_CONFIGURE_EXTRA_FLAGS in a dh v5 debian/rules , moving to v7 it should still pick that up correct ?
<imbrandon> ScottK: ^
<imbrandon> nvm, got it
<ari-tczew> what is the different between "My involvement" and "Areas of work" sections in Developer Application Template?
<DktrKranz> jdong: if you have time, mind putting your ubuntu-sru hat on and commenting on bug #573603 ? Thanks!
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 573603 in oggconvert "unable to convert to dirac" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/573603
<bilalakhtar> People, can someone review my package for maverick? its here:- http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/gnome-media-player and the needs-packaging bug is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/551702
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 551702 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] gnome-media-player" [Wishlist,In progress]
<bilalakhtar> People, can someone review my package for maverick? its here:- http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/gnome-media-player and the needs-packaging bug is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/551702 . Can someone review it, please?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 551702 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] gnome-media-player" [Wishlist,In progress]
<bilalakhtar> anyone here?
<bilalakhtar> please, can anyone review my package?
<bilalakhtar> its here:- http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/gnome-media-player
<bilalakhtar> keffie_jayx: Can you review my package?
<keffie_jayx> hey bilalakhtar actually no, I am not a motu :(
<bilalakhtar> keffie_jayx: sorry, I felt like you are one.
<keffie_jayx> bilalakhtar: most flattered :D
<keffie_jayx> good luck with your package
<bilalakhtar> keffie_jayx: My package is for maverick :)
<bilalakhtar> geser: Can you please review my package?
<keffie_jayx> does it have manpages and watchfiles and the likes?
<bilalakhtar> keffie_jayx: yes
<keffie_jayx> bilalakhtar: Can I have a look to learn?
 * keffie_jayx checks the link
<bilalakhtar> keffie_jayx: You're welcome.
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: Can you please review my package?
<hyperair> hmmm has maverick been opened for uploading yet?
<geser> no
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: I think so. I can see various packages being built for it on https://launchpad.net/builders
<hyperair> very well
<hyperair> what's the package?
<bilalakhtar> https://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/gnome-media-player
<bilalakhtar> the needs-packaging bug is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/551702
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 551702 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] gnome-media-player" [Wishlist,In progress]
<bilalakhtar> hyperair:  sorry its http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/gnome-media-player
<carstenh> bilalakhtar: debian/copyright is incomplete, it doesn't mention who wrote it. gpl3-only is the best way to ensure that distributing this software will become illegal in future
<carstenh> either "gpl3 or later" or a less restricting license would be better
<bilalakhtar> carstenh: but its clearly described to be gpl3
<carstenh> bilalakhtar: yes, it's not a packaging problem but a upstream one
<bilalakhtar> carstenh: Fine, I will mention the developer of the package.
<carstenh> bilalakhtar: but the missing information in debian/copyright is a packaging problem
<bilalakhtar> no regrets
<bilalakhtar> carstenh: Ok, is putting the name and e-mail of the developer enough?
<carstenh> bilalakhtar: http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/d/deborphan/current/copyright is one example. you need to add these copyright lines
<carstenh> bilalakhtar: hmm, it's a bad example ... :)
<bilalakhtar> carstenh: Yes I added those also. no need to see the example. uploading to revu again
<carstenh> http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/p/pal/current/copyright <- better
<carstenh> bilalakhtar: there is a need to ... nobody will upload a package with such a copyright
<bilalakhtar> carstenh: Do I need to modify the changelog version to 0.1.2-0ubuntu2 or let it remain on ubuntu1?
<carstenh> bilalakhtar: nobody ever installed it, so stay with ubuntu1 should be ok, but there are some sponsors with weird views
<carstenh> i would stay with ubuntu1 unless a potential sponsor tells you not to
<bilalakhtar> carstenh: You are a motu, right?
<bilalakhtar> carstenh: I have uploaded. should be available on revu within a minute
<carstenh> no, i'm not involved in ubuntu at all, but i'm a debian developer
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: Are you there?
<bilalakhtar> carstenh: What is the process to get the packages into debian?
<bilalakhtar> carstenh: Now you can see. The upload is available on revu
<carstenh> bilalakhtar: prepare a package, write an ITP-bug, find a sponsor
<bilalakhtar> carstenh: I have written a bug. searching for a sponser
<bilalakhtar> Anyone ready to sponser my package gnome-media-player? I have filed a needs-packaging bug and uploaded the package to revu
<carstenh> bilalakhtar: #debian-montors (i think on oftc, not freenode) or lists.debian.org/debian-mentors are good to get into touch with potential debian sponsors
<bilalakhtar> carstenh: Thanks, but right now I am searching for ubuntu sponsors
<carstenh> bilalakhtar: well, you asked, i answered ...
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: Can you sponser my package?
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: eh sorry, i got sidetracked.
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: gimme a few more minutes
<Bachstelze> hmm, if an upstream source tarball has a README saying "This package is licensed under <license>" but the individual source files do not mention it, can it be assumed that they all fall under the licence mentioned in the README?
<carstenh> bilalakhtar: sorry for being imprecise :) first problem was "missing copyright lines in debian/copyright", you fixed it, thanks.  second problem is "using gpl3-only is insane", this is a upsteam problem and you can't fix it yourself, your job is to put the information from upstream into debian/copyright
<Bachstelze> (specifically, I'm looking at the Python bigfloat module)
<bilalakhtar> carstenh: no problem, have to do another fix
<carstenh> bilalakhtar: you now did change the license in debian/copyright yourself, this is clearly not allowed without relicensing from upstream
<bilalakhtar> carstenh: I didn't
<bilalakhtar> carstenh, hyperair: Thanks for your help. I have to go now, shall come back tomorrow.
<carstenh> Bachstelze: many people consider this a bug that should be fixed, but a sane ftpmaster would accept such a package anyway
<sebner> Bachstelze: nope, what counts is the license specified in the source files
<sebner> Bachstelze: arghm , misread, yes, what carstenh says is true
<Bachstelze> ok, thanks
<bilalakhtar> carstenh: If the whole package is GPL3 licensed, then, I think this much in the copyright file is ok, right?
<bilalakhtar> carsten
<bilalakhtar> carstenh: leave it
<ari-tczew> bdrung: could you give a comment on my MOTU application?
<hyperair> i'm curious. why did the sponsor queues for main and universe get merged?
<hyperair> this makes it so much harder to find something to sponsor that i *can* sponsor within the queue >_>
<Laney> you can sort by origin
<hyperair> origin?
<Laney> it's one of the columns
<hyperair> there's no origin column
<hyperair> do you mean the package it came from?
<Laney> http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/
<Laney> the second column is called origin
<hyperair> aah
<hyperair> i was looking at bugs.launchpad.net..
<Laney> huh I don't know if that's right
<hyperair> Laney: er so what should i be looking for in that column?
<Laney> some stuff I can't upload comes up as unseeded
<hyperair> more like a whole bunch of main stuff are unseeded =.="
<hyperair> like metacity
<hyperair> that's in main, is it not?
<Laney> right
 * geser filed his first sync request for maverick
<Laney> it's open?
<geser> sort of, LP knows about, but you can't upload yet (looks like the toolchain for maverick is currently setup)
<geser> you can also update your pbuilder to maverick (and any devel chroots)
<imbrandon> geser: wont autosync be turned on
<imbrandon> imbrandon-guest@alioth:/git/collab-maint/apt-mirror_test.git$ git checkout master
<imbrandon> fatal: This operation must be run in a work tree
<imbrandon> whoops, miss-paste
<geser> imbrandon: the sync request was for a package that can my synced now again (the Ubuntu delta can be dropped)
<imbrandon> ahhh one of /those/ LOL
<imbrandon> yea i'm actualy working on some of those now, cept i fsked the git repo on one LOL, thus on aniloth trying to fixer up
<imbrandon> alioth*
<imbrandon> just uploaded 2 before that though that can now be synced once they are installed by DAK
<Guest28194> lucas: Hello. Have you think about the hang of software using ruby such as rubyripper? I avoid the problem by installing the version of ubuntu 9.10 on ubuntu 10.04. Now the problem is that flac refuses to encode some tracks, due to thrir names. But I don't find what flac dislikes in their names.
<nxvl> persia: can you please renew my u-u-sponsors membership
<geser> nxvl: u-u-s is no more, only u-s
<nxvl> geser: really?
<geser> yes, the sponsors teams got merged
<nxvl> oh yeah, but i'm member of u-s trough u-u-s
<nxvl> kees: you are admin in u-s, can you please add me to the team?
<hyperair> afaik the u-s membership was all indirect
<hyperair> like u-u-s and u-m-s are both members of u-s
<geser> iirc new members are added to u-s and existing members transferred on renewal
<nxvl> hyperair: i think the case is as geser mentions
<hyperair> i see.
<hyperair> well either way, i find the new merge rather annoying
<hyperair> now when i look at the sponsoring queue, i find a whole bunch of packages that i can't sponsor because i don't have upload privs.
<nxvl> btw, are we still going to have universe/main for maverick?
<hyperair> and there's no easy way to tell besides apt-cache policy each package i see >_>
<nxvl> hyperair: but universe is supposed to dissapear
<hyperair> nxvl: then what, everything in main?
<nxvl> hyperair: something like that
<nxvl> hyperair: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArchiveReorganisation
<geser> that part of ArchiveReorg I don't understand yet either
<nxvl> geser: and who does?
<geser> I hope cjwatson
<hyperair> nxvl: not everything in main, but "universe" becomes "set of unseeded packages"
<hyperair> nxvl: that's how i interpret what the wiki is saying
<nxvl> hyperair: yeah, something like that
 * hyperair facepalms
<hyperair> your "something like that" has a very broad range, doesn't it?
<sebner> hahah
 * sebner agrees on hyperair 
 * hyperair waves at sebner
 * sebner waves back
<Laney> agrees with ;)
 * sebner waves at Laney too :D
<hyperair> oh hey Laney
<Laney> fancy seeing you here!
<sebner> lol
<hyperair> my, my, isn't that right.
<hyperair> the internet is such a small place.
<sebner> Laney: long time no see, right? =)
<ajmitch> it is
<Laney> wow, ajmitch as well!
<hyperair> oh hey ajmitch
<ajmitch> who where?
<sebner> unbelievable!
<hyperair> amazing!
 * Laney buys a round
<ajmitch> you're all stalking me, I know it
 * hyperair gets drunk 
<sebner> hyperair: hf!
<ajmitch> Laney: make sure it's still cold when it gets to NZ
<hyperair> i'm underaged! or at least, i think the drinking age is 21
<hyperair> these stupid age lower limits.. i can never remember what is what
<ajmitch> 18 in NZ stil, though they want to raise it
 * hyperair shrugs
<sebner> hyperair: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drinking_age
<alkisg> dh_pysupport is moving my modules from /usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/twisted/plugins/myplugin.py to /usr/share/pyshared/twisted/plugins/myplugin.py which results in twisted not being able to find them.
<alkisg> How can I prevent that? Or at least to tell it to make symlinks in lib/* like dh_pycentral does?
<hyperair> whoaa there's a wiki article on that!
<hyperair> DktrKranz might know..
<POX> alkisg: unfortunately you have to use python-central as well
<POX> all packages that share a namespace have to use the same helper tool
<hyperair> so problematic. can't we just throw away one already?
 * POX prepares 3rd one
 * hyperair groans
<ajmitch> or we wait for the glorious future where we don't need such things, right? :)
<POX> ajmitch: yeah, I hope mine will be a transition to PEP3147
<ajmitch> that's what I thought
<ajmitch> what came of that thread about backporting parts of that PEP implementation?
<POX> dunno, we will not need it in Debian, dunno what Ubuntu will do
<ajmitch> hopefully nothing too different from debian
 * POX hopes too
<hyperair> then hurry up and carry it out before anybody here manages to do anything weird!
<jpds> doit.
<hyperair> nike just do it.
<kklimonda> I have to say the new bzr based workflow maks me feel like an idiot..
 * POX failed to convince Ubuntu guys to do transitions in Debian
<hyperair> kklimonda: you, me, and a lot of others.
 * hyperair advocates the idea of POX dishing out death threats.
<geser> POX: would it work to start any transitions in Debian right now because of the different release states? (not that I had any influence on it)
 * POX points geser to #573745
<geser> POX: please also mention if it's a LP bug number or Debian bug number (both are now in the same range). (in this case looking at the Debian bug makes more sense)
<POX> ok, sorry
<ajmitch> the race is on to the 600k mark?
 * POX hopes Ubuntu will win this one ;P
<ajmitch> ubuntu cheats, the bug numbers are across all launchpad :)
<geser> now you can not only bet when it get hit but also if Debian or Ubuntu hits it first
<ari-tczew> geser: could you give a comment on my motu application?
<ajmitch> so I've found that it's really annoying to not have wireless working, dodgy ralink drivers...
<geser> ari-tczew: sorry no, because I didn't do much sponsoring lately and don't know what I had to write in my comment
<ari-tczew> geser: so may only general opinion about my work?
<kklimonda> persia: I was supposed to ping you if I'm not in ~ubuntu-dev by this time so here I am ;)
<geser> ari-tczew: all I could write, is that you're active in this channel as I didn't follow -motu too closely recently (busy with other things)
<ari-tczew> geser: eh, okay, I won't ask you no more, as you are a chairman on meeting 11th May
<geser> ari-tczew: don't take it personally. It's always hard for me to comment on someones application as I don't memorize names and their activities well for a longer time. My mind considers it unimportant and forgets it again.
<ari-tczew> geser: no, I didn't take it personally. I wrote that you're a chairman 11th May, so in total comment from you isn't important. easy
<alkisg> (11:20:06 Î¼Î¼) POX: alkisg: unfortunately you have to use python-central as well ==> thanks a lot (sorry I had to leave)
<Migi32> hey everyone, now that 10.04 is out and there's no longer a feature-freeze, here's a suggestion if you don't have anything to do at the moment: update libfann1/libfann1-dev in the repositories to libfann2/libfann2-dev. It would really be appreciated
#ubuntu-motu 2011-04-25
<rgl> I've deleted an PPA, but it still appears on launchpad (altough on the deleted state) ... is there a really nuke it?
<rgl> err is there a way to really nuke it?
<arand> rgl: I do not think so, no.
<rgl> so I cannot recreate it from scratch?
<rgl> this is the first time I'm touching a PPA, I've made several mistakes... I want to start over :|
<kklimonda> a] 16
<tumbleweed> rgl: #launchpad https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+faq/661
<rgl> tumbleweed, oh bummer. so I cannot re-enable a deleted PPA nor nuke it :-(
<tumbleweed> rgl: https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/392887/comments/42 you might still be able to rename it, then create a new one with the name yuo want
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 392887 in Launchpad itself "Cannot delete a PPA" [Low,Fix released]
<arand> rgl: You can re-enable a deleted one, afaik
<rgl> tumbleweed, humm only the display name can be changed :|
<tumbleweed> I'd go for re-enabling then
<rgl> arand, if I manually add the /+edit I can reenable it ... but the links for "change details" et al do not appear now :(
<rgl> arand, I have to always fuzz with the url :|
<tumbleweed> seriously though, #launchpad (although it's pretty quiet on weekends and public holidays)
<arand> Yea, I remember it being a bit odd..
<apparle> guys any idea as to how long it will take for netbeans7 to arrive in natty repos?
<tumbleweed> apparle: doesn't look like anyone touched netbeans during natty at all
<apparle> tumbleweed: any rough idea, I messed up my project using nb7 in windows and now I can't open it in linux
<tumbleweed> apparle: it's too late for it to get into natty now. Someone (you?) could build it in a PPA, or get it into oneric and backport to natty
<apparle> tumbleweed: never built a package in my whole life and I'm nearing the project submission, so cannot do it at least for a week
<tumbleweed> You can try contacting the previous person who was maintaing it https://launchpad.net/~yulia-novozhilova
<tumbleweed> but I'm guessing it's a big complex package, and not something one just produces a new version of quickly
<ScottK> I think the usual reaction unless you're experienced with Java packages is to run when confronted with one.
<maco> ScottK++
<tumbleweed> I think a bit of experience makes you run faster
<ScottK> Right, but eventually you get your masochistic streak going and you're trapped.
<Laney> Debian GSOC stuff announced for those interested: http://www.milliways.fr/2011/04/25/welcome-to-our-2011-debian-google-summer-of-code-students/
<astro73|derrial> is there a way to build my python extension for multiple versions of python, besides the default one?
<ia> Hello, everyone. I have a question about packaging python app with modules and will be very appreciate for any clues.
<ia> First case. Here example with source code of how it should be (as far as i understand) - https://code.launchpad.net/~iaz/+junk/python-module ; and it really works. I mean, if you build package based on provided debian/ package info (of course, replacing credentials to yours in changelog), then, just right after installation, you will be able to do something like (eg., in python console): from pythonmodule.module_functions import python_module_function; python
<ia> _module_function();
<tumbleweed> astro73|derrial: that should happen by default, if you let dh build it (assuming you use a setup.py)
<ia> Second case. And here - https://code.launchpad.net/~iaz/battery-status/0.1.2 - I have sources with exactly the same structure for python modules and for packaging stuff, and after creating deb package it really contains modules for `pyshared' global dir, but after installation python itself just can't see related module stuff, so on `import' I get "ImportError: No module named batterystatus". But another interesting thing - if installation has been via `sudo
<ia> python setup.py install --record files.txt', then related modules is importing as it should right after installation.
<ia> So, the question is - could anyone tell me, please, what am I doing wrong for python deb packaging in the second case? Thanks in advance. (Frankly saying, this issue just drive me crazy, because I can't see any errors)
<tumbleweed> and I thought I was about to go to a warm cosy bed... /me has a quick look
<astro73|derrial> tumbleweed: i do, and I have several versions of python installed, but when I run debuild, the produced .deb says it has to be python 2.6 in the metadata
<tumbleweed> astro73|derrial: which release of ubuntu are you building iton?
<astro73|derrial> 10.10
<tumbleweed> ia: python-scentral is dephrecated, please don't use it. http://wiki.debian.org/Python/PyCentral2DhPython2
<tumbleweed> astro73|derrial: 2.6 is th eonly supported version on maverick
<astro73|derrial> so even if I have 2.7 installed, it won't build against 2.7?
<tumbleweed> ia: but aside from that, lp:~iaz/+junk/python-module builds fine for me
<tumbleweed> astro73|derrial: it's not a supported python version on maverick. It is on natty
<astro73|derrial> so i have to manage the upgrade just to build my package
<tumbleweed> astro73|derrial: if it's being used on maverick, it doesn't need to be built for 2.7.
<tumbleweed> astro73|derrial: and you can build for other releases with pbuilder / PPA
<astro73|derrial> it's being used on natty, but I don't want to install a dev env on the target machine
<tumbleweed> astro73|derrial: set up a pbuilder / chroot, or build it in a PPA
<ia> tumbleweed: ok, thanks for deprecation information, but that doesn't solve the issue - I use pycentral in both cases, but in first case it works, and in second (looks like) it doesn't.
<astro73|derrial> instructions?
<tumbleweed> astro73|derrial: pbuilder-dist create natty; pbuilder-dist build $foo.dsc
<tumbleweed> err pbuilder-dist build natty $foo.dsc
<astro73|derrial> and what package provides pbuilder-dist?
<tumbleweed> ubuntu-dev-tools
<astro73|derrial> (the sad part is i'm trying to update a package I previously built. But now it's making me feel like a n00b)
<astro73|derrial> pbuilder-dist is going to be a while, isn't it?
<tumbleweed> astro73|derrial: yup. You could also just sign your usource package and upload it to a PPA
<astro73|derrial> well, it's already on github, and it's got a C extension to build
<tumbleweed> PPA is launchpad's personal build service
<astro73|derrial> oh, that would be useful
<astro73|derrial> i thought it just provided a deb repo
<astro73|derrial> is there a document that describes the differences in the control file through revisions? lintian keeps telling me i'm using an "ancient" version of the standard
<tumbleweed> /usr/share/doc/debian-policy/upgrading-checklist.txt.gz
<ia> tumbleweed: so, any comments about my issue? (don't get me wrong - i'm not insist, just maybe you have some clues)
<tumbleweed> ia: sorry, took me a while to work it out. You need to add a line containing only '#DEBHELPER#' to your postinst
<tumbleweed> that's where the python-central stuff will be added
<astro73|derrial> i feel like i just need to get a dev tutor or something, because i suspect i got a lot of stuff wrong, or at least incorporating creative solutions
<astro73|derrial> (i know, not your job)
<tumbleweed> yes, having a mentor is a good idea. Unfortunatly the MOTU mentoring program is dormant at the moment.
<tumbleweed> but you can almost always ask questions here or in #ubuntu-packaging
<astro73|derrial> ok
<ia> tumbleweed: wow, great! amazing! thank you, thank you, thanks a lot! :-) I've just rebuilded package, installed it, and it works as should!
<tumbleweed> ia: no problem. BTW, it spews out a few screernfulls of errors on instal,l you should probably fix that :)
<tumbleweed> wrt mentoring, you're welcome to ask me python questions / to review python packages. I'm happy to help (esp if you intend to maintin the package in debian/ubuntu in which case I'll happily sponsor it)
<astro73|derrial> tumbleweed: i'm currently trying to update github.com/astronouth7303/pyinput
<astro73|derrial> (i should also go through my code and figure out what I actually want to maintain and package)
<ia> tumbleweed: however, this is so unobviousness (i mean #debhelper# in postinst) - but now at least I can googling something related to this use case (eg., http://www.google.ru/search?q=ubuntu+python+packaging+postinst+debhelper - 5th link). So thanks again twice.
<tumbleweed> ia: it's mentioned in the debhelper manpage
<tumbleweed> ia: and those placeholders are there in the examples provided by dh-make
<ia> tumbleweed: oops :-) this is good lesson for me - I should more often and carefully read man pages of using tools
<tumbleweed> it's hard to know what to read, though
<astro73|derrial> even if someone wrote a big book on debian packaging, i'm not sure it would be enough, given that many languages have their own version
<astro73|derrial> (and python packages may or may not be using the debian infrastructure at all!0
<tumbleweed> there's a new book in progress: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-packaging-guide (and Debian also has some: http://www.debian.org/doc/ )
<tumbleweed> and I'm off to bed
#ubuntu-motu 2011-04-26
<AnAnt> LP #770622
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 770622 in tzdata (Ubuntu) "2011g available" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/770622
<AnAnt> does that need a FFe ?
<ajmitch> AnAnt: I think that was being handled already by a sync, I don't know the bug # though
<AnAnt> ajmitch: no, Debian itself doesn't have 2011gt
<AnAnt> ajmitch: no, Debian itself doesn't have 2011g
<AnAnt> the sync was for 2011f
<ajmitch> and 2011f doesn't have the updated DST rules for egypt?
<AnAnt> it was updated in 2011g
<ajmitch> how annoying :)
<AnAnt> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.time.tz/3758
<ScottK> AnAnt: It will need to be an SRU now.
<AnAnt> ScottK: erm, is there anything that needs to be added to the bug report
<AnAnt> ScottK: the reporter has attached the upstream diff
<ScottK> I didn't look at the bug report, sorry.  Usually for tz updates cjwatson it pretty on top of them.
<ScottK> (or pitti, IIRC)
<ScottK> So I suspect it's fine.
<cjwatson> pitti rather than me
<AnAnt> ok
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> Morning dholbach.
<dholbach> hey iulian
<AnAnt> LP #752396
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 752396 in bzr-fastimport (Ubuntu) "bzr-fastimport is not listed in "bzr plugins" list" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/752396
* ScottK changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Archive: Frozen for release - Natty SRUs can be uploaded | Want to get involved with the MOTU? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Sponsor queue: http://bit.ly/fz6AyQ | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs | http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs/ | Congrats to new core-dev: SpamapS
<gaurav_pawaskar> Hi Guys, I am getting following issue while running pbuilder
<gaurav_pawaskar> http://paste.ubuntu.com/598980/
<gaurav_pawaskar> i think i have a problem in control file
<gaurav_pawaskar> http://paste.ubuntu.com/599388/
<gaurav_pawaskar> Build-depends: part
<gaurav_pawaskar> any help?
<arand> gaurav_pawaskar: libqt4-dev-tools? for qmake?
<gaurav_pawaskar> arand: sorry I did not understand.. this is my 1st time packaging :)
<arand> gaurav_pawaskar: Try adding libqt4-dev-tools to the build-dependencies.
<gaurav_pawaskar> arand: ok
<arand> gaurav_pawaskar: Ah, I think the package name is just libqt4-dev
<highvoltage>     /win 9
<stgraber> highvoltage: you are already in /win 9 (at least here :))
<highvoltage> heh
<gaurav_pawaskar> arand: also when i run dpkg-buildpackage command.. i am not able get binaries in bin dir
<arand> gaurav_pawaskar: That sound like its down to the application not using a good install target, you could use .install files for that..
<gaurav_pawaskar> arand: any reference for .install file?
<arand> gaurav_pawaskar: packagename.install: src/binary /usr/bin          I think is the general format...
<gaurav_pawaskar> arand: when I run buildpackage command.. i should see /share and /bin dirs in /debian/<package>/usr      right?
<gaurav_pawaskar> but i can not see /bin dir at that location
<arand> gaurav_pawaskar: Yes... which is likely because the "(q)make install" of that application doesn't install to /usr/bin, but to somewhere else, either you could patch the makefile at build time (quilt), or use install files to move binaries which are compiled within the source directory to the desired location in the filesystem.
<gaurav_pawaskar> arand : which location it will be?
<arand> Well a binary would go in /usr/bin I guess, a png for an icon in /usr/share/icons/hicolor/48x48, etc..
<gaurav_pawaskar> arand: i am not talking about installing.. I am running dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot
<gaurav_pawaskar> and it is not creating binary
<arand> gaurav_pawaskar: Ah, hmm, do you get binaries just running debuild -us -uc ?
<gaurav_pawaskar> arand: if i run make command it is creating binary locally..
<arand> Yes.
<arand> Exactly.
<gaurav_pawaskar> but it is not getting placed in /debian/randy/usr/bin/
<gaurav_pawaskar> arand: i guess when i run buildpackage i should see it in /debian/usr/randy/bin dir
<arand> Which is why you need to either patch the makefiles install target, or use .install files. ...Or do some custom magic in the rules file, I guess
<gaurav_pawaskar> arand; http://www.sendspace.com/file/hddth6
<gaurav_pawaskar> can you suggest changes. I am kind of confused now
<gaurav_pawaskar> :(
<arand> gaurav_pawaskar: Hang on , I'll see if I can change over to a sane computer..
<gaurav_pawaskar> arand: okay thank you
<arand_> echo "randy usr/bin > debian/randy.install"
<gaurav_pawaskar> arand_: i did not get it
<arand_> gaurav_pawaskar: Doing this makes it install a binary in /usr/bin for me
<arand_> gaurav_pawaskar: What it means is that in the "install" process, it takes the file "./randy" and install it in what will later become /usr/bin.. the name of the .install file determines which package (if multiple) it is used for.
<gaurav_pawaskar> arand_: you mean it will first create file locally then place it in usr/bin ?
<arand_> gaurav_pawaskar: Yes, that is normally how things go anyways, you have "make" and then "make install"
<gaurav_pawaskar> arand_ : ok let me try that
<arand_> Your particular program doesn't seem to have a useful "make install" target, hence you need to do it manually.
<gaurav_pawaskar> randy                 /usr/bin/
<gaurav_pawaskar> data/randy.desktop    /usr/share/application/
<gaurav_pawaskar> arand_ : ^^ is this enough for .install file?
<arand_> gaurav_pawaskar: Well, I would guess so. Doesn't seem to be much more in the program :)
<gaurav_pawaskar> arand_: yes it is 1st packaging for me and application too :)
<gaurav_pawaskar> arand_ : http://paste.ubuntu.com/599432/
<gaurav_pawaskar> does it mean successful build?
<arand_> gaurav_pawaskar: I would guess so, the contents of the .deb package is the final answer, of course
<gaurav_pawaskar> arand_ : it was without .install file. I will do it again with that file
<arand_> gaurav_pawaskar: Ah, well it will likely build fine without it, but the binary won't be placed in the package.
<gaurav_pawaskar> arand_ : ohh I think that is why after installation I am not able to see that application
<paultag> anyone have a hand in the gcc 4.6 o-series testing? doko's not arround
<gaurav_pawaskar> arand_: hey I got it.. only thing is I am not finding that application in Application/Accessories
<gaurav_pawaskar> arand_ : thanks alot :D
<arand_> gaurav_pawaskar: You'll need the name of the Icon:  entry to match an installed icon e.g. /usr/share/icons/hicolor/48x48/randy.png or /usr/share/pixmaps/randy.xpm
<arand_> I'm not sure if you would change the category to "Acessories" instead of "Utilities" as well.. Dunno what the FD spec for the naming scheme there is.
<gaurav_pawaskar> arand_: is that mandetory. I can see a menu file in debian dir
<gaurav_pawaskar> but it did not make much effect for me
<arand_> gaurav_pawaskar: .menu and .desktop are two ways of doing the same thing, is my shallow understanding of it..
<arand_> .desktop is prefered, I think.
<gaurav_pawaskar> arand_ okay.. let me try that way
<arand_> gaurav_pawaskar: Not that you will need to install an icon named "randy" for it to show up, or simply use the name of an already existing icon
<arand_> *Note
<gaurav_pawaskar> okay thanks
#ubuntu-motu 2011-04-27
<LaserJock> is XS-Python-Version: current deprecated?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: deprecated, and packags should start using dh_python2
<ajmitch> http://wiki.debian.org/Python probably has the most useful info about it
<LaserJock> the ever-changing python policy? ;-)
<ajmitch> yeah, ScottK is the expert on it
<LaserJock> ajmitch: do you know the status of that transition? Is it going to be done for Natty or is just started?
<ajmitch> for natty? no, it won't be done
<chilicuil> hi there, I'm trying to build the ubuntu-packaging-guide, but I'm getting this error when running $ bzr bd -- -S -uc -us # http://pastebin.com/FciicMXr , any hint is welcome, if this question shouldn't been done here, please point me out to the correct channel =)
<tumbleweed> chilicuil: it's sphinx, just "make html". Looks like bzr-builddeb hasn't been configured correctly (for native mode) in that branch
<chilicuil> tumbleweed: perfect, I'll try it
<chilicuil> tumbleweed: it worked!, ahaha, /me feels like a noob
<kaushal> hi
<kaushal> I have local ubuntu mirror, Can i populate the 11.04 repository, since it is not yet released ?
<Rhonda> kaushal: Sure, you just need to tell your mirror tool to include natty.
<Rhonda> And potential do syncs over the next few days.
<kaushal> ok
<dholbach> good morning
<econnell> i'm interested in an update on this: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=7251
<econnell> can anyone provide any insight?
<lfaraone> micahg: sugar-firefox-activity needs no changes for FF4, JFYI.
<davidgiluk_> greetings Masters
<davidgiluk_> I'm looking at a FTBFS for ARM - bug 745886 - but the error doesn't look very ARM specific, it's a 'invalid character in revision number' coming from dpkg
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 745886 in kdevelop-php (Ubuntu) "kdevelop-php version 1.2.0-0ubuntu1 failed to build on armel" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/745886
<davidgiluk_> any suggestions as to what would upset dpkg like that?
<micahg> lfaraone: ACK, thanks for checking
<lfaraone> I have a bug which requires SRUs for two different packages. (the same bug in both packages). Should I write both SRU testcases in the same bug?
<alan__> hi, all. I need to automate an ubuntu 10.10 installation. is preseed the best tool for the job? I don't see preseed documentation in ubuntu 10.10 docs
<alan__> and the partition limitations still exits?
<micahg> alan__: #ubuntu-installer might be better for this
<alan__> thanks
#ubuntu-motu 2011-04-28
<smoser> hey all... i'm trying to package somethign, i have the build working on my local system, but when i build in ppa or with sbuild, the package comes out empty.
<smoser> package is here : http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~awstools-dev/ubuntu/natty/rdscli/natty/files
<smoser> i think my issue is that in sbuild it doesn't rcognize that i'm not "using source format `3.0 (quilt)'"
<smoser> and it doesn't apply the patches before calling dh_auto_build
<smoser> locally outside of sbuild i use 'bzr bd'
<smoser> but just checked now that debuild also works. i'm guessing i'm missing a build-depends, but dont know what to guess.
<jmarsden> smoser: Can you point us to the PPA build failure log?
<smoser> https://launchpad.net/~awstools-dev/+archive/awstools/+buildjob/2503043
<smoser> note, its not a build failure in ppa (or sbuild) its a failure in that the resultant deb is empty
<jmarsden> smoser: Strange, it looks like the patches are being *removed*, along with the Makefile, before the build, so when the build happens it does nothing, because there is no Makefile?
<smoser> the patches add a make file
<smoser> note, even in the local working build, i see dh_auto_clean , and quilt pop -a
<smoser> but then after that, i see them applied with dpkg-source
<smoser> snippit at : http://paste.ubuntu.com/600146/
<Rhonda> Ah, it's time to leave the ubuntu group on identica.
 * Rhonda . o O ( for two days or such )
<smoser> http://paste.ubuntu.com/600147/ has more content.
<jmarsden> smoser: I'm confused about why you'd want to have a package creation process that removes a patch (why was it applied in the original, if it needs to be removed?), then adds it back in again, and then does the actual build... it seems unusual to remove something only to add it back in again.  Is that done intentionally?  What is the point of doing so?
<smoser> jmarsden, i dont.
<smoser> i dont do anything.
<smoser> in my bzr tree, the patches are unaplied. quilt source 3.0 format.
<smoser> the bzr bd -S. and then sbuild or ppa build and you see the logs.
<smoser> i didn't do anything to explicitly remove the patches. the debian/rules is just the
<smoser> %:
<smoser>                     dh $@
<micahg> smoser: when the source is created, the patches should be applied, not at build time
<smoser> hm... i thought dpkg-source new how to handle quilt 3.0 explicitly so it could do that
<micahg> smoser: it does, but I haven't tried it with bzr
<nigelb> Rhonda: heh :)
<smoser> i know that bzr wants to have them applied in the storage, but i personally dont like that. i was hoping to not have that. but i think you might be right.
<micahg> smoser: just run bzr bd, then run debuild -S -sa or -sd in the source dir, that's one workaround
<dholbach> good morning
<hrw> morning
<ari-tczew> Laney: I have just sent mail to DMB, could you moderate it?
<hrw> Laney: DMB meeting at UDS-O will be irc only or irc+face-to-face?
<Laney> hrw: the latter I imagine
 * Rhonda wonders â¦
<Rhonda> What's the o name again?
<Rhonda> karmic will get dropped with this release, right?
 * Rhonda wants to prepare packages.ubuntu :)
<Rhonda> oneiric - who is meant to be able to remember that, left alone pronounce it? :)
 * Rhonda . o O ( everyone in release stress? )
<Laney> I tried to find the release schedule yesterday but couldn't remember how to spell it :(
<Laney> good job Google could
<Laney> bdrung_: cody-somerville: Do you want to vote on cyphermox/email? It's +4 ATM and I'm writing up the minutes so will just declare it done.
<Rhonda> Laney: I always click at the end of wiki.ubuntu.com
<Rhonda> That's the most straight forward links for me. :)
<Laney> Rhonda: Yeah, but that doesn't show O yet :( Usually it just lives in vimperator's tab completion, which is about as fast as it's going to get
<Rhonda> I found O mentioned as "next release" on the natty page. :)
<Rhonda> but chaotic chameleon was missing as release between breezy and dapper!
<Rhonda> Or was that left out for fear of suing from suse?
 * Rhonda . o O ( metaphorical discussions that happen at every release )
 * Rhonda . o O ( androgynic ant also missing )
<directhex> pfft, breezy
<directhex> for true believers it will always be bendy
<Rhonda> Anyone seeing anything that's false in http://git.debian.org/?p=webwml/packages.git;a=commitdiff;h=56ba
 * Rhonda . o O ( not that I expect many to be familiar with the code, but â¦ removing karmic, adding oneiric :) )
<Laney> geser: how do we get PPU added? Mail to TB?
<Laney> cjwatson: ^ maybe you can tell me? :-)
<cjwatson> mail to TB is fine for now
<cjwatson> I don't remember the exact permissions required
<Laney> cheers
<Laney> I didn't know if DMB had it, but guessed not
<bdrung_> Laney: yes
<Laney> yes to what?
<Rhonda> Hmm, when is the next DMB meeting where I could apply for PPU for logcheck and irssi?
<hrw> Rhonda: next DMB meeting is 9th May
<hrw> Rhonda: with long queue attached
<Rhonda> Then I rather pass I guess
<Rhonda> Unless â¦ what time? :)
<Rhonda> I would hope that I wouldn't take long and could "squeeze" in.  (haha)
 * Rhonda would have hoped for at least a redirect from wiki.u.c/DMB :)
<hrw> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda
<Rhonda> Yep, it's not that I am not able to find things :)
<Rhonda> huhm, 13:00 UTC, that's my worktime.
<Rhonda> I guess I'll have to pass that one then anyway.
<bdrung_> Laney: vote on cyphermox/email
<Laney> bdrung_: OK well I already sent it out, but you can still add your vote
<Laney> please please could I ask you to help the other application along?
<bdrung_> yes, i will look at all of them
<Rhonda> nooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
<Rhonda> 500 Internal Server Error
<Rhonda> After I typed a lengthy application  %-(
<Rhonda> Hah. Reload worked.  *pfhew*
<Laney> yeah, it 500s but works
<Laney> has been doing that for some time :(
<Rhonda> If someone feels like, looking for Endorsements: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GerfriedFuchs/DeveloperApplication
<borgdylan> I wish to submit a package to natty
<borgdylan> it is currently at REVU as dylandotnet
<borgdylan> Will someone please advocate it after reviewing it
<Laney> borgdylan: I suggest you approach Debian with your package; try #debian-cli on OFTC
<borgdylan> But that requires registration on Alioth?
<Laney> eventually
<Laney> it'll get you a better package in the end though
<directhex> have we ever seen a good quality cli package come out of revu?
<borgdylan> But still it has to go in for the first time.
<borgdylan> The debian team still has to review it.
<Laney> who better to review a mono-using package than the specialist team?
<borgdylan> you have a point
<borgdylan> just registered on alioth
<Laney> first of all I can see some general problems like line wrapping and stray boilerplate text
<Laney> delete the 'license' file
<Laney> the version should end in -1 not -0ubuntuX for Debian, and the target should be UNRELEASED instead of natty.
<Laney> changelog should be "Initial release (Closes: #xxxxxx)" where xxxxxx is the number of your ITP bug (which you'll need to file with 'reportbug -B debian wnpp')
<Laney> directhex: what's a simple cli app package?
<borgdylan> is banshee on debian?
<Laney> yes
<directhex> Laney, which build system?
<Laney> autofool
<directhex> one of sebner's i guess?
<Laney> possibly
<borgdylan> I have submitted the project on alioth.
<Laney> please make the changes I suggested, and check out a package like 'longomatch' then either come to #debian-cli on OFTC or mail debian-cli@lists.debian.org to ask for a review
<Laney> in particular you need to make sure to use cli.make from cli-common-dev
<gaspa> is there any rss feed for -changes mailing lists?
* ScottK changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Natty Released! - Natty SRUs can be uploaded | Oneiric: Toolchain setup | Want to get involved with the MOTU? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Sponsor queue: http://bit.ly/fz6AyQ | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs | http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs/ | Congrats to new core-dev: SpamapS
<Rhonda> hmm, natty released?
<ScottK> Yes
<Rhonda> But there is no http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/oneiric/ yet!
<ScottK> No.  That takes a bit of work to set up.
 * Rhonda goes to log into sulfur :)
<ScottK> It should appear today.
<lfaraone> So for zero-day SRUs, the bug doesn't have to be fixed in oneric. We just nom the bug for natty and do the normal SRU procedure, right?
<Laney> lfaraone: yeah, it'll get copied to O when accepted to proposed
<Laney> or at the opening of O, whichever is later
<lfaraone> Laney: I just uploaded pithos 0.3.9-1 to Debian unstable. This fixes two bugs of high and medium importance. Can I do something like a  sycn in an SRU?
<lfaraone> (it only contiains those two bugfixes)
<lfaraone> changelog ref: http://paste.ubuntu.com/600271/
<Laney> you can upload it versioned as 0ubuntu1
<Laney> or 1~ubuntu1, or whatever
<Rhonda> oneiric, not?
<Laney> yep
<Laney> i'll be relying on vim learning about that codename to keep it correct
<Rhonda> Perfect, thought I had fumbled with my packages commit. :)
<arand> [5~
<Rhonda> arand: pageup?
<arand> Rhonda: ctrl+pgup/down, I have no idea where the bracket came from though =)
<Rhonda> That's part of the keycode. Just the escape got eaten somewhere :)
<Rhonda> ^[[5~ is pageup
<xglasyliax> hi all, is this where i'd report incorrect software in software center?
<xglasyliax> for 11.04
<Pici> What do you mean by 'incorrect'?
<xglasyliax> Pici: well, under graphics->3d they have "Blender". Blender's current stable, public version from blender.org is 2.57b, whereas software center only gets you 2.49b, which is several years old.
<xglasyliax> i guess i shouldn't have said "incorrect", more incorrect version.
<micahg> xglasyliax: you can file a bug against the package in Ubuntu and tag it upgrade-software-version
<xglasyliax> micahg, umm... sure how do i do that?
<arand> xglasyliax: Well, presumably none has packaged the new version for ubuntu.
<micahg> xglasyliax: ubuntu-bug blender
<arand> So the bug would be a "request for upgrade" rather, I guess..
<micahg> xglasyliax: the new version is in Debian unstable, so it'll be brought into oneiric as soon as someone gets to the merge
<xglasyliax> micahg, ok
<xglasyliax> micahg, do i need to have our linux platform maintainer make a .deb then and send it somewhere?
<micahg> xglasyliax: nope
<xglasyliax> micahg, sry, by "our" I mean blender xD
<xglasyliax> micahg, ok, im unfamiliar with the ubuntu software process. thanks for the help.
<xglasyliax> micahg, if its in Debian unstable does that mean I should do nothing and it'll magically show up once something is merged?
<arand> xglasyliax: It will in the next relese of ubuntu, yes
<xglasyliax> arand: 11.10?
<arand> xglasyliax: Yes.
<xglasyliax> arand, thank you.
<Sc0tt> hmm, actually I was hopin Ubuntu 11.04 would include Blender 2.5
<xglasyliax> me too :)
<arand> Hmm 2.56.1 was in unstable at 2011-02-21, if requested that might've made it into natty, though that's past now I guess..
<xglasyliax> arand, is it possible to get 2.57.1 into the software channels then or must it wait till 11.10?
<xglasyliax> arand, again, im not too knowledgeable about such things
<Sc0tt> hmm - I don't think there will be much use of 2.49 for newbies now
<arand> xglasyliax: It won't go in the main archives. PPAs are always a possibility.
<Sc0tt> most docs and production switching to 2.5x
<arand> And I would assume that something like blender is already available in a couple of PPAs?
<xglasyliax> arand, so if perhaps something like 2.58 is out by october, can we get that in there, or how do they decide what version to include?
<arand> xglasyliax: That would probably not make it in since the release is in october.
<xglasyliax> arand: ok, so 2.57.1 is out now, that will likely be the version they'd use?
<arand> xglasyliax: ubuntu takes the packaging work debian has done, and debian tries to packagage as soon as possible, hence there will be delaying.
<xglasyliax> the reason i ask is that your post about 2.56.1 being in debian unstable
<xglasyliax> 2.56.1 was a beta
<xglasyliax> 2.57.1 is release
<arand> Ok, I'm not sure if it was held off because of that then..
<arand> xglasyliax: Feature freeze for ubuntu is normally ~2months before relese, and then Debian needs to have it packaged before as well, so possibly if a version was relesed 3months before the relese of ubuntu, it would have a reasonable chance to go into that version of ubuntu. There will always be exceptions in either direction though..
<xglasyliax> arand, ok. thanks! I hoping then that 2.57.1, being out now, would surely make it into 11.10.
<arand> xglasyliax: Very likely, I would guess
<xglasyliax> arand, thank you again.
<lucidfox> So... I can natively call pbuilder-dist for i386 platforms on an amd64 system?
<lucidfox> I just did, apparently
<Laney> yes
<lucidfox> yay!
<Laney> lucidfox: are you still involved with pinta?
<lucidfox> Haven't contributed to it since 0.5
<lucidfox> why do you ask?
<Laney> a binary lib crept in
<Laney> and we're wondering about combining ms-pl and mit code
<Laney> thought you might know
<lucidfox> you could send a message to pinta@googlegroups.com, or directly to jpobst at monkey@jpobst.com
<Laney> he wasn't too receptive, we already asked on github
<lucidfox> :(
<lucidfox> Which code is MS-PL, Laney?
<Rhonda> \o lucidfox
<lucidfox> Can it be easily patched out?
<Laney> lucidfox: A bundled libary, System.ComponentModel.Composition. I doubt it can be patched out.
<Rhonda> \o/ packages.ubuntu also managed the release :)
<Laney> ms-pl doesn't look too friendly to combined works under a different license
<Laney> \o/
<Laney> (\o/ to Rhonda, not to license hell)
<siretart> hi lucidfox. long time no see, how's it going?
<lucidfox> Going okay :)
<lucidfox> Oh, that library. It's surprising if it's even in the distribution - I thought support for plugins was disabled for now.
<siretart> great! just noticed your smplayer upload :-)
<lucidfox> Yes, the author of the patch pinged me on a forum, so I actually got to reviewing it :)
<Rhonda> hmmmm
<Rhonda> I guess I need the help of some "designer" to adjust the packages site with the latest layout changes on the various ubuntu pages.
<Rhonda> And the Releases page in the wiki still needs to get updated :)
<ScottK> Rhonda: #ayatana is the channel most likely to find design team people
<Laney> do they deal with the website?
<james_w`> there is a #ubuntu-website too
<Rhonda> Laney: Which one?
<Rhonda> Oh,
<Rhonda> Oh, "they"
<ScottK> Laney: They did the ubuntu.com redesign, yes.
#ubuntu-motu 2011-04-29
<lfaraone> slangasek: could you approve the 3 SRUs in bug 771804? (I uploaded one of them accidentally 4 times because of the error given by bug 757248 )
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 771804 in pithos (Ubuntu) "Need v30 protocol/keys -- "Pandora does not support your client version"" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/771804
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 757248 in Launchpad itself "poppy-sftp's signature checking relies on long-term survival of a directory in /tmp" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/757248
<slangasek> lfaraone: pianobar srus accepted; the pithos one also includes a change for bug #705271, but there's no SRU info in this bug (it's not even filed against the Ubuntu package) - could you fix this up?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 705271 in Mandriva "complains about "Too many gstreamer errors. Not retrying" - halts playback" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/705271
<lfaraone> slangasek: oh my, that's the wrong bug. or rather, a duplicate of the bug
<lfaraone> slangasek: that bug is now a duplicate of bug 771804 which has the correct SRU info
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 771804 in pithos (Ubuntu) "Need v30 protocol/keys -- "Pandora does not support your client version"" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/771804
<lfaraone> slangasek: duplicate of bug 759699
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 759699 in pithos (Ubuntu) "Gstreamer encountered a general stream error" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/759699
<luciano> hi all, i have a question
<luciano> i solved a typo bugfix in debian
<luciano> and create a debdiff..
<luciano> should i just attach to bug's report on Debian ?
<luciano> or do someting else ?
<Rhonda> Just attach it to the bugreport in Debian and tag it p+ patch.
<Rhonda> Are you familiar with working with the Debian BTS? There are somewhere the logs of my classroom session about it.
<Rhonda> luciano: ``
<luciano> Rhonda, no, i'm not really familiar with BTS
<luciano> where are logs of that session ?
<luciano> Rhonda, i'll take a look at http://wiki.debian.org/HowtoUseBTS
<luciano> Rhonda, thanks for your help
<Rhonda> That's one of the logs, yes ;)
<dholbach> good morning
 * lucidfox waves
<iulian> Morning dholbach.
<dholbach> hey iulian
* ScottK changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Natty Released! - Natty SRUs can be uploaded | Oneiric: Open for development | Want to get involved with the MOTU? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Sponsor queue: http://bit.ly/fz6AyQ | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs | http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs/ | Congrats to new core-dev: SpamapS
<nicoulaj> Hi, just wanted to know, is REVU still the standard to submit new packages to Ubuntu repositories ? I see there are packages awaiting validation here since 2009
<nicoulaj> the standard way*
<tumbleweed> bdmurray: bug 773391
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 773391 in ubuntu-dev-tools (Ubuntu) "[grab-attachments] can't handle duplicate files" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/773391
<bdmurray> tumbleweed: I've seen it thanks
<yofel> :)
<tumbleweed> cool :)
<lucidfox> When trying pbuilder-dist oneiric create, I get this error:
<lucidfox> E: Couldn't download dists/oneiric/main/binary-amd64/Packages
<lucidfox> what should I do?
<lucidfox> weirdly, reloading http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/oneiric/main/binary-amd64/, sometimes I get the files and sometimes I don't
<lucidfox> mirrors?
<lucidfox> ah well, creating with ru.archive.ubuntu.com as a mirror resolved it
<lucidfox> Which gcc version will oneiric use as default? 4.6?
<ScottK> Yes
<lucidfox> good!
<ScottK> It's already default.
<lucidfox> Huh. What the heck? http://paste.ubuntu.com/600863/
<lucidfox> okay, an update resolved it
<gaspa> hi, can I see somewhere in launchpad the same infos of the -changes lists?
<tumbleweed> gaspa: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+queue?queue_state=3
<lucidfox> If a package synced from Debian was removed in Debian, will it be automatically removed from Ubuntu too?
<Laney> semi-automatically
<Laney> there's an archive admin script
<gaspa> tumbleweed: great, thanks.
<kl__> Hi when I try to build a package source I get this error http://pastebin.com/Wvv2fTFg
<Laney> kl__: you need to install gnome-pkg-tools
<kl__> Laney: thanks I figured how remove the comment. But now I cannot remove a patch.
<kl__> to disable a patch I just comment the series file right?
<arand> kl__: Yea, or just remove the name from there, I think is proper
<kl__> arand: did not work had to pop all patches then remove it.. and push them back
<arand> kl__: Ah, yes, since if you remove a patch it won't pop it if it's already applied then.
#ubuntu-motu 2011-04-30
<CristianSN> hola
<CristianSN> alguien q hable espaÃ±ol q me pueda ayudar?
<ScottK> CristianSN: /join #ubuntu-es
 * ScottK no hable espaÃ±ol
<CristianSN> english?
<ScottK> Yes.
<CristianSN> i can't browse MS resources.
<CristianSN> but from MS i canbrowse Ubuntusresoureces.
<CristianSN> i cant config samba. can u help me?
<ScottK> No, but you should try #ubuntu or #ubuntu-es for help.
<CristianSN> ok ty. cya
<lucidfox> hyperair, I see you packaged a new version of libgpod for Debian - will gtkpod follow suit?
<lucidfox> specifically, gtkpod 2.0
<oussama> Hi i want to start with packaging help me plz where to start
<oussama> thanks
<tumbleweed> oussama: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU is a good starting point for the documentation on the wiki
<toabctl> i created a package which have a file in /etc/dbus-1/system.d (i see the file in the package with dpkg --contents and the file size is > 0) but when i install the package with "dpkg -i", the file is not installed. why?
<sagaci> is it too early to create a pbuilder environment for oneiric
<tumbleweed> should be possible today. Most of my local mirrors didn't have it yet, yesterday
<sagaci> having a bit of trouble running pbuilder, when I know the Release file exists on my preferred mirror - http://paste.ubuntu.com/601229/
<sagaci> http://mirror.aarnet.edu.au/pub/ubuntu/archive/dists/oneiric/ - it exists
<hyperair> lucidfox: gilir's handling gtkpod.
<gilir> hyperair, lucidfox there is actually a new contributor which want to update it, but for now he doesn't seems to follow my recommendations (using git, tracking changes in debian/changelog)
<hyperair> gilir: bleh. so what's going on now?
<hyperair> i mean did he give a diff of changes or what?
<gilir> no, just the whole modified package :/
<siretart> I'm going to upload libav 0.7_beta1 RSN (the successor of ffmpeg). Given its amount of reverse dependencies, I'd expect a number of changes required in other packages
<hyperair> gilir: wasn't that the thing he gave in his duplicate itp?
<Laney> ffmpeg goes away?
<hyperair> siretart: is that a successor or just a fork?
<Laney> looks like it's a rename
<hyperair> hm
<hyperair> i could have sworn i read something about a fork thouh
<hyperair> though*
<Laney> or is it?
<siretart> hyperair: for the debian/ubuntu POV, it's the successor
<Laney> "We, as a group of FFmpeg developers, have decided to continue developing FFmpeg under the name Libav"
<hyperair> siretart: ah, i see.
<hyperair> Laney: "a group of FFmpeg developers", i.e. not everyone
<Laney> indeed
<hyperair> have forked off ffmpeg into libav and will continue maintaining it as such
<siretart> Laney: for as far as ubuntu is concerned, it is a rename of the source package only. all (source) dependencies remain the same
<vish> Laney: hyperair https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-April/000794.html
<vish> (in case you missed that mail)
<hyperair> vish: ah, i missed that.
<hyperair> did it lend in -devel?
<Laney> I don't read the TB list, so it's certain I missed it
<vish> nope, only on TB list
<vish> what happens now, if someone packages ffmpeg?
<vish> hyperair: something that should probably be discussed on devel indeed
<siretart> vish: err, even I missed it :-/
<vish> siretart: ;)
<hyperair> s/lend/land/, but yeah
<hyperair> okay
<hyperair> vish: have there been no more emails since april 8th?
<vish> dont think so..
<hyperair> vish: looks like an unresolved issue that has gone ignored, eh
<hyperair> so even things like this happen in foss communities..
 * hyperair sighs
<vish> hyperair: yea, the situation is very weird, was actually funny how siretart mentioned it as a successor though ;p
<hyperair> heh
<hyperair> well whoever it is who's maintaining ffmpeg already said it was a final decision eh
<vish> right, thats why i'm wondering now what will happen if ffmpeg gets someone to package it for Ubuntu/Debian?
<hyperair> meh
<hyperair> vish: things will never be the same, i guess.
<siretart> vish: I guess that person would have at least to talk to me
<c_korn> what debhelper script has to be called to generate the postinst script?
<tumbleweed> c_korn: dh_installdeb
<c_korn> tumbleweed: I have the problem here that I build a library which installs into usr/lib but there is no script with ldconfig created
<Laney> dh_makeshlibs does that
<tumbleweed> c_korn: sorry I meant install the postinst, not generate it
<tumbleweed> c_korn: the snippets are generated by other scripts
<c_korn> hm, ok. then I need to find out why it does not generate those
<c_korn> hm, I have no idea. neither in lucid nor in natty there is a postinst created/installed
<ScottK> siretart: So what's the other side of the story?
<siretart> ScottK: well, most of the folks that have actually done work in ffmpeg for the last 3 years have moved on to libav. To me as packager, it is a much nicer community, with folks that actually care about releases and reviews.
<siretart> ScottK: To me, it seems that FFmpeg is pretty panic driven these days. Michael previously refused to merge stuff like ffmpeg-mt for years (he literally said "ill never merge -mt" a couple of days before we announced libav.org)
<ScottK> The mails to the TB did seem strident.
<siretart> ScottK: nowadays, he's merging pretty much everything at once that seems kindof useful. and even puts out releases, something that he didn't consider even worth thinking about when I joined ffmpeg upstream
<ScottK> Funny.
<siretart> he basically tries everything to make libav look bad
<siretart> if you look at statistics (like git commit statistics, accepted GSoC projects, etc), then you'll see a completly different picture of activity
<c_korn> aha, http://pastebin.com/aur5NsZs the SONAME does not have a version. I think this is it
<siretart> in the end, I have none seen no one that stood up to provide up-to-date ffmpeg packages. and I can tell from experience that working with Michael is very very tiresome and hard. I almost always felt like working against a wall
<siretart> since we've forked libav, stuff that used to be horribly hard to discuss was done with almost no hassle.
<siretart> ScottK: need more details or are you happy with this presentation of 'the other side'?
<ScottK> siretart: No.  I trust you.
<siretart> Thanks
<lucidfox> Any idea why mjpegtools are in multiverse?
<siretart> lucidfox: it contains non-free stuff
<siretart> lucidfox: AFAIUI, that stuff is not essential. it's rather that nobody bothered so far to strip it out.
 * lucidfox hrm...
<c_korn> yep, this was the problem. with a verioned SONAME the postinst script gets created !
<siretart> lucidfox: I think Fabian raised the topic on pkg-multimedia some time ago...
<lucidfox> And... regarding the libmp4v2/mpeg4ip thing...
<lucidfox> the only remaining dependencies on libmp4v2 are easytag-aac and faac, not counting the dlopen trick in gtkpod
<lucidfox> I'm not sure we even want easytag around. The last stable release was in 2007 and the last development release was in 2008. Upstream is dormant and SVN on Sourceforge is empty
<siretart> let's better port packages to vo-aacenc, which unlike faac has a sane license
<lucidfox> I'm not sure how vo-aacenc is a replacement for libmp4v2
<lucidfox> Can it read and write tags?
<siretart> vo-aacenc is an AAC encoder. libmp4v2 is an MPEG4 container toolbox. Totally different purposes
<siretart> libavformat is supposed to be able to read and write metadata. if it lacks something, please get in touch with #libav-devel
#ubuntu-motu 2011-05-01
<G> Where is the best place to dive in and help out with MOTU stuff at the moment?
<micahg> G: at the beginning of the cycle, generally package merges, in this case though, fixing the stuff tagged ftbfs and (natty or oneiric) in universe would probably be best
<G> so bugs tagged ftbfs & on http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/
<micahg> G: those and these: http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20110413-natty.html
<G> micahg: I'm guessing for the natty rebuild ones, it's just a case of verifying that they still ftbfs and if they still do, fixing it then?
<micahg> G: yeah
<micahg> G: they should all have bugs filed in launchpad, so just attach a patch or branch to the bug and follow the sponsorship procedure
<G> micahg: i.e. subscribing ubuntu-sponsors ?
<micahg> G: yeah
<G> micahg: if a natty ftbfs package, also needs a merge for Oneiric, I take it that the merge isn't a solution for natty, and that a seperate fix fro natty would be needed?
<micahg> G: right, but you can cherry pick the fix for natty and propose if you want
<micahg> G: but the list I gave you doesn't apply to natty, it's only with gcc-4.6 which is the default in oneiric
<G> micahg: oh, Matthias' rebuild is based on using gcc4.6?
<micahg> G: yep
<micahg> G: that rebuild is tagged oneiric in launchpad, the ones tagged natty, you can cherry pick a fix from Debian if it exists
<G> micahg: oh I was confused, because like that link you gave me, zabbix was FTBFS on i386, and looking at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archive/test-rebuild-20110413/+buildjob/2473125 everything seemed to pointto natty
<micahg> G: it used natty since that was the latest suite available, but it had a special toolchain
<G> micahg: ahhh okay, I get it now :)
<shijie> hello,my codeblocks throws permission denied upon compilation.
<shijie> can anybody help me with that
<shijie> when I install it in 10.10, this problem happens too. but I installed other plugins,it worked.
<shijie_> hello,my codeblocks throws permission denied upon compilation.
<shijie_> anybody there:-)
<shijie_> hello
<oussama> Hi, do i need to have the last version of ubuntu to contribute in ubuntu (packaging) currently i'm using ubuntu 10.04 lucid lynx thanks
<sagaci> oussama, not necessarily. You can use pbuilder to create an ubuntu+1 environment. correct me if I'm wrong
<_ruben> pbuilder and sbuilder are common tools for that, yes
<_ruben> and it's not restricted to "ubuntu+1", it can be used to work with pretty much any version
<oussama> what is "ubuntu+1"
<_ruben> the term to indicate the current development version: latest stable + 1
<G> okay, so for a merge proposal, branched the ubuntu bzr tree for the packaging, so if I understand correctly: Add note to bug, attach my branch to the bug, set In Progress, Unassigned, add ubuntu-sponsors to bug watchlist?
<G> err link my branch, that includes the merge, I should say
<hakermania> Hello all :) I have my application to REVU for a review, but now with Natty, tray isn't working, what am I supposed to do?
<micahg> hakermania: fix the app, we'll review for oneiric, you can request backport to natty
<hakermania> Fix the app = Make it an indicator instead of tray?
<micahg> hakermania: well, if it's for GNOME specifically, it would either need to work for GNOME3 or Unity to get into oneiric, if it's a general purpose app, a tray is fine
<micahg> *and/or
<em> why does python-pyopencl DEPEND on nvidia??
<azeem> does somehting else implement the opencl API?
<em> yes i have an amd radeon card
<azeem> that wasn't the question
<em> i dont understand your question.
<em> there's something I need python-opencl for. I dont have an nvidia card.
<azeem> then maybe that something should depend on python-pyopencl?
<azeem> if nvidia is the only thing shipping the opencl libraray on which pyopencl depends, it sounds ok to me
<azeem> I don't see an amd implementation off-hand
<azeem> eh
<azeem> s/that something should depend/that something shouldn't depend/
<hakermania> micahg: Where can I download oneiric for testing purposes? Or is it too early?
<micahg> hakermania: it's too early for it to be installable
<Ampelbein> hakermania: oneiric is to a big part uninstallable currently, see http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing/oneiric_probs.html
<hakermania> micahg: When/Where the oneiric stable release for testing purposes will be announced?
<micahg> hakermania: oneiric won't be a stable release for 5.5 months :)
<hakermania> then when are we supposed to find the time and fix the app?
<micahg> hakermania: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricReleaseSchedule
<micahg> hakermania: the alpha releases should at least be installable
<hakermania> So, we can start from 6.2.11. OK then, thanks a lot
<em> azeem: I am trying to set up bitcoin mining. I have an amd card. For that I need the pyopencl. I was hoping that I could use the ubuntu repos but it depends on nvidia libs
<azeem> em: so do you have an opencl implementation from AMD?
<em> azeem: you mean the amdappsdk thing? Yeah
<azeem> em: then you can try to create an equivs package of that nvidia thing
<em> azeem: huh? what do you mean an equivs package?
<em> azeem: are you a motu?
<azeem> what does that have to do with anything?
<micahg> em: if the package needs an implementation of opencl to work, it makes sense to depend on a package that provides it
#ubuntu-motu 2012-04-23
<micahg> Daviey: any chance that you were planning on updating to the latest asterisk?  gmime2.4 depends on it and 4 other packages
<micahg> Daviey: err..I meant that the other way, it's a reverse dependency of gmime2.4
<ScottK> micahg: I think he confessed to it on -release a few hours ago.
<micahg> ScottK: I assumed that was just to fix the RC bug :)
<ScottK> Oh.  Yes.  Probably.
 * micahg is trying to get rid of gmime, but might run out of time, need to do seamonkey as well
<micahg> *gmime2.4
<micahg> any objections to removing google-glog? (removed in Debian)
<micahg> FTBFS on armhf
<Laney> micahg: ScottK: I think the path being considered to fix that bug is a wholesale update.
<Laney> removing stuff removed in debian> no, all's the better as far as I'm concerned
<Laney> modulo the unlikely situation that someone is actively maintaining it
<micahg> broder: ISTR you have a script to close the bugs for EOL backports, could you run that for maverick-backports when you get a chance?
<Laney> can reverse-depends output source packages as well as take them on input?
<tumbleweed> Laney: no. We don't have good ways of mapping source<->binary
<Laney> tumbleweed: does your web service look at Sources already? It's in there
<tumbleweed> no, it gets the source->binary mappings from LP, but that's buggy (it breaks on build failures)
<Laney> also, got any nice lists of issues for a -devel mail?
 * Laney has FTBFS and rcbugs
<tumbleweed> source->binary and binary->source is probably best done as a separate service
<tumbleweed> there's also debcheck, but practicall,y FTBFS and rcbugs probably matter more right now
<Laney> ye
<ltaveras> im looking for some advice on how to reactivate dominican republic loco team
<ltaveras> any help will be appreciate
<ltaveras> my email lisander.reyes@claro.net.do
<ltaveras> <ltaveras> thanks
<Laney> ltaveras: You'll probably get better help in #ubuntu-locoteams
<ltaveras> i was there but no one answer
<Laney> I'm afraid this channel isn't going to be much help â it's not really anything to do with loco teams.
<Laney> try and mail the loco council's mailing list.
<tumbleweed> MOTU hasn't been particularly effective at reactivating itself, never mind courting non-developers :P
<ltaveras> do you have council emails addres
<Laney> loco-council@lists.ubuntu.com
<ltaveras> thanks a lot laney, you so kind
<Laney> np, good luck
<tumbleweed> Laney: thanks for the mail. There's been so much stuff I intended to do before release... :/
<Laney> yeah, I know the feeling
<Laney> I stayed in my corner(s) a bit much
<Laney> ho hum
<tumbleweed> copious amounts of free time, lol :)
<cjwatson> Rhonda,micahg: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wesnoth-1.8/+bug/982534/comments/5 FYI
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 982534 in wesnoth-1.8 (Ubuntu) "Please remove wesnoth-1.8 from precise" [Undecided,Fix released]
<porthose_spider> Would a release team member please comment on bug #983300 thx :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 983300 in rhythmbox-ampache (Ubuntu) "plugin doesn't show up in rhythmbox" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/983300
<tumbleweed> porthose_spider: looks like stgraber just did
<tumbleweed> bdrung_: why does distro-info suggest shunit2?
<tumbleweed> re the last minute django FFe, I see a whole bunch of django FTBFSs filed in Debian last week (behind on my e-mail). I can't say I'm very suprised.
<jtaylor> universe is not frozen yet or?
<tumbleweed> not yet. We have ~24 hours left
<jtaylor> is there a need for builders in the next hours? I wanted to fix a minor scipy issue but it builds quite long
<tumbleweed> we just got a bunch of new builders, so I wouldn't worry
<Laney> ftbfs after the upgrade?
<tumbleweed> Laney: there was no coordinated transition in Debian, just an upload
<Laney> hoho
<jtaylor> Laney: directed at me?
<Laney> no
<valleslezards> salut
<jtaylor> hm maybe I should still update matplotlib to git head it does add a couple for medium bugs and is probably simplifies the sru
<jtaylor> *bugfixes
<jtaylor> on the other hand I have no idea how to generate the orig tar :/
<tumbleweed> does setup.py sdist not do the right thing?
<tumbleweed> they have a MANIFEST.in, so I'd assume someone uses it
<jtaylor> there is an extra sample data tarball, but from the mailing list it seems its the same as 1.1.0
<jtaylor> so I can probably reuse that
<tumbleweed> https://github.com/matplotlib/matplotlib/blob/master/Makefile#L22
<jtaylor> so you don't think its a bad idea to still do that?
<tumbleweed> I haven't reviewed the diff
<jtaylor> its only a couple hundred lines
<tumbleweed> what's the plan? Any link to an FFe bug?
<jtaylor> its bugfix only
<tumbleweed> go for it :)
<tumbleweed> you are talking about an SRU, though?
<tumbleweed> are we expecting some major bugfixes?
<jtaylor> no
<jtaylor> I currently talking about updating to git branch head now to make a potential sru simpler
<jtaylor> because when we sru we might as well go to 1.1.1 final (which is bugfix only)
<tumbleweed> oh, right, we are currently on an rc
<tumbleweed> yeah, sneak some updates in
<jtaylor> head as also aged almost a week since the last commit to it, should be safe
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: because it's needed to run the test cases
<tumbleweed> bdrung_: but that's at build time
<bdrung> tumbleweed: the tests are installed too
<tumbleweed> I don't Suggest nose when I install a python unit test
<tumbleweed> bdrung: btw, prepared all the distro-info updates, but I can't do the precise upload, it's in main. Would you mind?
<jtaylor> ok now  have the problem how to upload a 33mb package with a 12kb/s connection
<highvoltage> eek
<jtaylor> I can't use alioth as I need the full b-d for a full sdist :/
<tumbleweed> copy a pristine-tar delta and rebuild on alioth?
<jtaylor> thats a good option
<jtaylor> or xdelta might be simpler
<jtaylor> not installed on ali :(
<jtaylor> tumbleweed: can I send you a delta, you apply and upload it to ali wher eI can read it?
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: sure :)
<ScottK> jtaylor: around?
<jtaylor> ScottK: yes
<ScottK> jtaylor: Please upload python-scipy again without the wrap-and-sort.  It makes the diff very hard to review and doesn't really add anything.
<ScottK> At this point you should be going for minimal diffs to affect needed changes.
<jtaylor> ScottK: that was for easier merge after P
<jtaylor> debian has added the sorting
<ScottK> If you change it both in Debian and Ubuntu you'll get a merge conflict.
<jtaylor> but I can do it without a sync will probably work anyway
<ScottK> Thanks.
<tumbleweed> ScottK: thoughts on matploblib? ^^
<ScottK> matplotlib bug fixes sound good.
<bdrung> tumbleweed: done
<tumbleweed> bdrung: great. I should have given the debian upload a higher urgency. Only realised later. We should ask for an early migration...
 * bdrung nods.
<jtaylor> more problems, xdelta3 does not create the same md5sum as it uses gzip without -n ._.
<ScottK> Alternately, take the upstream commits and cherry pick them as patches.
<ScottK> That gets the fixes in and no worry about tarball recreation or uploading.
<tumbleweed> that's how doko handles python2.X
<jtaylor> hm the diff contains binary, though they are probably rebuilt from source
<jtaylor> or someone creates a orig.tar for me which I can download, download is much faster
<jtaylor> its just python setup.py sdist --formats=gztar with all b-d installed
<ockham> i've downloaded a library package from Debian experimental, built it for precise, and am now trying to follow https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto#Building_With_Local_Packages so i can dget another package from experimental that depends on the lib, and build that for precise, too . unfortunately, the library package ends up in /var/cache/archive/experimental -- as its target is of course set to experimental in the changelog. how can i work around
<ockham>  this? i don't need to bump the changelog, do i?
<ockham> i should probably say this is on oneiric; building is done using cowbuilder
<jtaylor> lets see if bzr works
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: http://corelli.tumbleweed.org.za/stefanor/matplotlib-1.2.x.tar.gz
<jtaylor> tumbleweed: I need the 1.1.x branch :/
<tumbleweed> ah
<tumbleweed> http://corelli.tumbleweed.org.za/stefanor/matplotlib-1.1.1rc.tar.gz
<jtaylor> thx thats perfect
<jtaylor> great it apparently does not build
<tumbleweed> that would be too easy :P
<jtaylor> it just hangs with no error, the best type of error ._.
<ockham> anyone? ^
<tumbleweed> ockham: copy it to precise?
<ScottK> jtaylor: Much easier.  Thanks.  http://launchpadlibrarian.net/102923884/python-scipy_0.9.0%2Bdfsg1-1ubuntu1_0.9.0%2Bdfsg1-1ubuntu2.diff.gz is my kind of diff to review.
<jtaylor> ^^
<jtaylor> well I don't have time to debug this matplotlib issue
<jtaylor> if someone does go ahead
<ockham> tumbleweed: and that's enough? no messing with Sources.gz etc?
<tumbleweed> ockham: what is your /var/cache/archive ?
<tumbleweed> if it has a Sources.gz that sounds like it's maintained by reprepro / mini-dinstall / something
<ockham> yes, mini-dinstall. as suggested by that wiki page
<tumbleweed> can you not override mini-dinstall to install it into precise?
<tumbleweed> if you can't, just edit teh changes file (syncpackage --no-lp should make that easy)
<ockham> i'm new to mini-dinstall -- any clue how to override it? otherwise, i guess i'll just try the latter idea.
 * tumbleweed doesn't know it either
<tumbleweed> but presumably it has documentation :P
<bregma> its documentation in regards to overrides ranges from sorely lacking to bad
<ockham> yup, that's what i thought, too, after skimming over the manpage
<tumbleweed> broder: am I ever going to get a stripe tshirt? :) (no sign of it yet, but a local friend get his a few weeks back)
<broder> tumbleweed: you should have gotten it already. give me a sec - i'll look into it
<broder> (they should have all been sent out >3 weeks ago by now)
<tumbleweed> thanks
 * Laney directs broder towards bug #985981
<Laney> :P
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 985981 in mosh (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu patch fo "Add ufw integration"" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/985981
 * Laney eyes remaining bugs in the queue
<broder> Laney: i don't really know ufw, but seems fine from my context-free reading
<Laney> I thought you had a relationship with the maintainer, perhaps he would take it (Debian has ufw)
<broder> i do, and i'm happy to bounce it to him
<Laney> does it really need all of those ports open?
<broder> it chooses one randomly
<Laney> hrm
<tumbleweed> for the firewall, it would probably be preferable to use a *far* smaler range
<broder> ftr, this is a step up from the original implementation, which picked a completely random port :)
<broder> (you can also specify a single port to use manually)
<broder> anyway, i can do some quick testing of the patch and sponsor it in...probably a few hours, if that's not too late for unseeded FF. or i can not, if you guys think the port range is too sketchy
<broder> and i can forward it onto upstream in either case
<broder> (along with your concerns)
<Laney> I would leave it for P and see what we can do later on
<broder> k
<StevenK> Laney: Q, even?
<Laney> leave it until Q
<Laney> :P
<broder> well, we're leaving it [as is] for P :)
<StevenK> Right
<ScottK> Quantal.
<ScottK> Start getting used to it.
 * Laney didn't learn how to spell Oneiric for about 6 weeks
<StevenK> Haha
<EvilResistance> o.O  Laney, that's just...
<EvilResistance> sad i think is the word...
<Laney> erm.
<ScottK> I'm glad I was at UDS O.  If it wasn't for the One Eye Rick bit in the keynote, I don't know that I'd have ever gotten it.
<jtaylor> thank good for vim syntax highlight :)
<broder> Haha. That was a pretty great keynote
 * jtaylor wants pypy powered sphinx, bisecting matplotlib is so slow ...
<jtaylor> great scipy build failure
<tumbleweed> have you seen how pypy upstream recommends using matplotlib?
<jtaylor> embeding cpython in it or?
<tumbleweed> yeah, crazy shit
<tumbleweed> http://morepypy.blogspot.com/2011/12/plotting-using-matplotlib-from-pypy.html
<jtaylor> is arm broken shortly before release?
<jtaylor> the scipy diff cannot have caused a failure ...
<jtaylor> hurray found the bad commit
<jtaylor> some threading thing who would ahve guessed ...
<tumbleweed> and the scipy failure?
<jtaylor> no idea
 * tumbleweed pokes at it
<jtaylor> someone got a working arm chroot?
<jtaylor> the last build succeeded, so its either an regression in some low level library or a last minute new feature
<jtaylor> not to critical the bugfix is minor and we can just probably just poke the build when the issue has been found
 * tumbleweed has a worknig chroot, but don't know if it'll build scipy. Finding out...
<jtaylor> I'd like to see the content of that stat.h
<jtaylor> tumbleweed: you can probably just execute that one failing line instead of the full build
<jtaylor> maybe also try with the dpkg from 5 days ago
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: http://paste.ubuntu.com/943267/
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: I'm waiting for 100MB of build deps...
<jtaylor> oo
<tumbleweed> but yes, I'll try that
<jtaylor> hm no change since ubuntu6 in libc
<tumbleweed> hrm, gcc happily builds that file for me
<jtaylor> nice
<tumbleweed> not really
<tumbleweed> lets see if a complete build succeeds
<SpamapS> tumbleweed: btw, thanks for wrapping up the virtualenv thing :)
<tumbleweed> SpamapS: np
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: is the C regenerated during the build?
<jtaylor> well at least I got matplotlib to build now
<jtaylor> not sure
<tumbleweed> no, looks hand-written
<jtaylor> I guess I have a patch for matplotlib but its probably to late to get upstream reply :/
<tumbleweed> they can be quite responsive. poke them on IRC
<tumbleweed> whee, ICE
<tumbleweed> *** glibc detected *** /usr/lib/gcc/arm-linux-gnueabi/4.6/f951: free(): invalid pointer: 0x008c38f8 ***
 * tumbleweed leaves that one for people crazier than me (or with real arm hardware) and goes to bed
<jtaylor> thanks for checking
<jtaylor> I'll still upload matplotlib and go too, if my patch is wrong that at least gives me a reason to sru to final ;)
<ajmitch> Laney: so when will the unseeded universe freeze be?
#ubuntu-motu 2012-04-24
<EvilResistance> anyone here able to help me diagnose why this doesn't build in a lucid chroot?  i'm not exactly certain *where* its exploding... this is the logs from the pbuilder session (building a source package): http://paste.ubuntu.com/943360/
<EvilResistance> s/where/why/
<EvilResistance> actually, i know generally why, something's broken somewhere, i just cant narrow down where
<SpamapS> I know its late, but I think we should try to ship drizzle 7.1 rather than the now deprecated drizzle 2011.03.13...
<SpamapS> I filed a FFE merge bug 987575
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 987575 in drizzle (Ubuntu Precise) "[FFe] Please merge drizzle 1:7.1.33-stable-1 from Debian unstable" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/987575
<arand> EvilResistance: It looks like simply the dpkg version requirement is not satisfiable in lucid?
<EvilResistance> arand:  what's the dpkg version that ships with Lucid?
<EvilResistance> (sorry, lost internet for a bit there)
<EvilResistance> nevermind, ubottu's !info function is useful :P
<sleepycat> in my ppa I see an option to filter by series. How do I upload a package targeting ubuntu+1 or some other series?
<EvilResistance> arand:  thanks much, that small insight into dpkg-dev being the wrong version was the cause, so decreasing the minimum requirement in debian/control fixed the thing.  :)
<EvilResistance> (this is why I rely on this channel for packaging help pretty much exclusively, i get answers here quicker than in #ubuntu-packaging))
<amithkk> Hello?
<EvilResistance> hiya?  :P
<Rhonda> cjwatson: I'm fine :)
<Rhonda> cjwatson, micahg: People are not forced to de-install the old wesnoth-1.8 packages during the upgrade (no conflict, one of the major reason for having them in seperate source packages), so that's proper.
<micahg> Rhonda: sounds good
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> morning dholbach
<micahg> Daviey: are you doing asterisk?
<tumbleweed> micahg: you could ask a french person to look at the spip changelog, but the diff seems short enough that related problems should be tractable
<micahg> tumbleweed: I tried google translate and failed, if you think it's worthwhile, we can poke a french reading person
<tumbleweed> no, I gaveyou an ffe
<tumbleweed> it's php, it won't fail to build :)
<tumbleweed> and urgency=high implies some confident by the debian maintainers
<micahg> they have 2 days to sort things out ;)
 * micahg still needs to upload seamonkey
 * micahg also needs to find someone interested in Seamonkey longterm so I don't have to upload it right before final freeze every release
<Laney> SpamapS: you didn't subscribe the RT: do you want that FFe looked at?
<micahg> laney: I'd say on his behalf yes (freeze in 3.5 hours)
<ajmitch> micahg: darn, that's a bit soon :)
 * micahg scurries to finish the seamonkey upload in time
 * ajmitch was hoping the freeze time would be sometime tomorrow for me (public holiday)
<Laney> i don't think we actually decided what exact time it would be
<ajmitch> still, it's unlikely it'll be more than 12 hours
 * micahg decides to pull the plug on seamonkey
<ajmitch> not worth it?
<micahg> too much work that I don't need
<Laney> is it broken?
<micahg> if someone wants to do it, I'm happy to mentor and backport
<micahg> laney: it requires updates every 6 weeks like Firefox/Thunderbird and we haven't done any yet
<Laney> oh, pain.
<micahg> right
<Laney> are there any contributors in the mozilla team?
<micahg> so, if someone steps up to do the work, we can backport to 12.04 (less testing required to backport than SRU through -security)
<micahg> laney: active?  chrisccoulson and me :)
<micahg> and it's mostly him right now
<ajmitch> I suppose precise-backports should be open & ready for business now? :)
<Laney> who's this Joe Lesko?
<Laney> someone could create that project indeed
<ajmitch> someone in the backports team, preferably
<micahg> laney: he was handling the updates for a while, but decided to work on other things
<Laney> ah, that's sad
<ajmitch> I can't imagine updating it is a fun task
<micahg> yeah, I'll see if someone at UDS is interested
<micahg> ajmitch: chrisccoulson does most of the work, it's just a matter of rebasing the changes from the thunderbird branch on the seamonkey branch and fixing odds and ends
 * Laney eyes popcon.u.c
 * ajmitch is going to refrain from volunteering :)
<Laney> what has happened to it?
<Laney> universe popcon stats are 404 :(
<micahg> it's mildly popular for a universe package
 * ajmitch looks at what he can do before freeze time
<micahg> ajmitch: can you do asterisk? then we can remove gmime2.4
<ajmitch> updating to the new upstream version?
<micahg> merge from Debian
<micahg> unless Daviey is about to push the upload button
<ajmitch> right, they've got 1.8.10.1, was an FFe requested?
<Laney> there is a branch from jtaylor that you should look at
<micahg> no, of course not... :(
<Laney> ScottK and I pretty much decided that if someone tells us it's OK then we'll go for it
<ajmitch> Laney: alright
<Laney> but nobody knows how to test asterisk
<micahg> ajmitch: thanks, that means I can go to sleep :)
<ajmitch> micahg: heh
<Laney> heh
<Laney> is it light yet?
<Laney> what TZ are you in?
<micahg> UTC-5
<ajmitch> Laney: I don't think asterisk is really testable, but afaik the version in precise has a few security problems
<Laney> yes
<ajmitch> give me a few min & I'll look at it
<ajmitch> assuming my laptop doesn't just suddenly hang
<ajmitch> sigh, looks like it has, yay for fglrx
<Laney> ._.
<ajmitch> Laney: where was that branch for me to look at?
<ajmitch> nevermind, found it
 * ajmitch would like faster internets please
<ajmitch> dealing with bzr & patches in package branches can be a little trying
<ajmitch> Laney: ok, building asterisk now, still got to touch up the changelog for bug numbers
<Laney> gogogogo
<ajmitch> Laney: hoping it builds first!
<ajmitch> good news, it built. Do you want to see the debdiff against debian?
<ajmitch> Laney: http://paste.ubuntu.com/943914/ if you want it - I haven't got any way to test this
<Laney> ajmitch: cool, please upload
<Laney> ffe bug would be appreciated for paperwork
<ajmitch> OK, it's not a small change though
<ajmitch> & there'll *still* be a security bug open that was just opened in the last day
<ajmitch>  1238 files changed, 212085 insertions(+), 141587 deletions(-)
<ajmitch> *cough*
<ajmitch> Laney: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/asterisk/+bug/987772
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 987772 in asterisk (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Update to asterisk 1.8.10.1 for security fixes" [Undecided,New]
<ajmitch> I'll add the bug # to the changelog before I upload
<ajmitch> Laney: I'm off to sleep now, do with asterisk what you will - it's been uploaded & a FFe bug filed
<tumbleweed> I guess we're at UUFE
* tumbleweed changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Precise: Archive in final freeze | Want to get involved with the MOTU? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Sponsor queue: http://bit.ly/fz6AyQ | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs | http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs/ | Fix-It Friday: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/KljH7rwo1X
<tumbleweed> UUFF even
<ajmitch> SRU time for all
 * ajmitch heads to bed
<tumbleweed> night
<wookey> anyone else seeing issues with http stalling on archive.ubuntu.com? It seems bust from both work and my server
<wookey> e.g. stalled at: 0% [Connecting to archive.ubuntu.com (91.189.92.184)]
* Laney changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Precise: Done. All updates to SRUs now. | Want to get involved with the MOTU? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Sponsor queue: http://bit.ly/fz6AyQ | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs | http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs/ | Fix-It Friday: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/KljH7rwo1X
<geser> wookey: I see it too, apt got a connect after a few seconds but only with a lower download rate than usual
<geser> hmm, looks like only apt-get update got lucky with a connection, the apt-get upgrade still tries
<wookey> oh, signs of life...
<ogra_> pre-release fun :)
<wookey> yeah it is just incredibly busy?
<Laney> that wouldn't be unheard of, although I would have thought it's still a bit early
<wookey> indeed
<dupondje> Bleh, trying to implement Clipboard support in Remmina, but GTK/GDK skills :(
<ScottK> tumbleweed: If you have a moment, I'd appreciate it if you'd review the dkimpy upload in the queue for me.
<dholbach> wookey, geser: is it better now?
<dholbach> anyone from the DMB: shouldn't ~diwic now be in ~ubuntu-dev? :)
<Laney> the rights haven't been executed yet
<Laney> perhaps stgraber could do that
<dholbach> StÃ©phane to the rescue!
<ScottK> Laney: You have time for a package review in the queue?
<Laney> hrm, I thought the queue was empty at freeze time
<ScottK> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/102975424/dkimpy_0.5.1-1ubuntu1_0.5.1-1ubuntu2.diff.gz
<Laney> aha
<ScottK> I thought we were still taking changes on a review the diff basis until tomorrow.
<Laney> well I didn't, but there appears to be confusion on what this freeze does
<Laney> never mind
<stgraber> Laney: so that's just pulseaudio right?
<Laney> stgraber: yeah
<stgraber> stgraber@castiana:~/data/code/ubuntu-archive-tools$ python edit_acl.py add -p diwic -s pulseaudio
<stgraber> Added:
<stgraber> Archive Upload Rights for diwic: archive 'primary', source package 'pulseaudio'
<Laney> added to ubuntu-dev
<Laney> thanks for the ping dholbach
<dholbach> yeehaw
<dholbach> and c.falco's application will be done via email?
<Laney> we asked him back to the next meeting to carry it on
<dholbach> ok - I'm just asking because he said something about bad time because of work previously
<Laney> he agreed when we asked
<Laney> it'll be the next + 1 meeting anyway, so at the same time
<dholbach> ok that's great then
<tumbleweed> ScottK: looking
<Laney> ScottK: looks OK to me
<tumbleweed> ah
<tumbleweed> even better :)
<Laney> what I can discern from the diff anyway
<ScottK> Laney: Thanks.  The only non-trivial change has test suite coverage (which I ran), so I'm reasonably confident of it.
<ScottK> In.  Thanks again.
<Laney> np
<SpamapS> Laney: I was waiting until the build completed successfully and my smoke tests were done.
<SpamapS> Laney: which they are almost done (build is fine)
<wookey> dholbach: yep - things seem to be fine now
<SpamapS> Damnit
<SpamapS> I thought universe wouldn't freeze till 2100 UTC.. :-/
<SpamapS> well my drizzle packages work :-P
<Laney> do it
<SpamapS> oh?
<Laney> if ScottK will press go
<SpamapS> its got binary new's
<ScottK> Is it a sync or a direct upload?
<ScottK> How long a build is drizzle?
<ScottK> (we're currently backlogged on armel and powerpc right now, so it's a concern)
<SpamapS> ScottK: merge, but the only delta is adding an upstart job (and a patch to fix FTBFS because of gcc warnings)
<SpamapS> ScottK: 45min on my core2duo 1.8Ghz
<ScottK> How long on armel?
<SpamapS> :-/
<SpamapS> ScottK: I'd guess 4x
<ScottK> That's the big question.
<Laney> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/drizzle/2011.03.13-0ubuntu5/+build/3210915
<Laney> that is the last one
<SpamapS> ugh more like 10x
<SpamapS> maybe it really is too late
<SpamapS> I'm pretty sure we should drop drizzle rather than carry 2011.03.13 for 5 years
<ScottK> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/drizzle/2011.03.13-0ubuntu5/+build/3210915 <-- almost 11 hours.
<ScottK> Yes.  Too late.
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> That or talk pitti into a massive SRU.
<SpamapS> ScottK: meh, I think backports will suffice
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> Please file the removal bug then.
<SpamapS> yeah, I'll ask my fellow drizzle devs what they think first.. they might be ok w/ supporting it but I doubt it
<ScottK> Move quickly as we'll want removals done today too.
<Laney> when did this release emerge?
<SpamapS> Laney: less than a month ago
<SpamapS> Laney: but it was in pre-release for 3 months before that
<SpamapS> I just got too busy to get it merged in
<SpamapS> ScottK: I suspect that we'll end up removing it anyway, since any security problems will not be patched upstream. I'll know soon.
<ScottK> OK.
<SpamapS> ok, so drizzle is going to keep the current and previous GA maintained..
<SpamapS> and another GA isn't expected for at least 18 months..
<SpamapS> so 2011.03.13 will get upstream fixes for at least 18 more months. We can address anything after that later.
 * SpamapS decides to do nothing
<Laney> nice
<SpamapS> still a total bummer not to ship 7.1 .. so many amazing features. :-P
 * SpamapS will chalk it up to the unfortunate but necessary roadkill that release cadence requires :)
<Laney> backports is there for you
<ScottK> "Cadence Kills"
<micahg> SpamapS: as laney points out, drizzle is a good backport candidate with no rdeps
<c_korn> hello, I have an upstream tarball which is not compressed (file extension .tar). can I also use this as an orig tarball?
<ajmitch> morning
<iulian> Hey ajmitch.
<ScottK> The asterisk hero returns.
<ajmitch> iulian: hi
<ajmitch> ScottK: thanks for accepting it
 * micahg has to remember to file the gmime-2.4 removal now
<micahg> gmime2.4 even
 * ajmitch is glad he didn't have more than 1 drink at the pub last night before coming home :)
<ScottK> micahg: Quickly as we're getting into the time window for mirror sync pre-release.
<ajmitch> archive.u.c is usable now?
<ScottK> It was very slow earlier today.
<ajmitch> seems to be working now, but yeah, it was failing to connect earlier
<Nafallo> wow
<ajmitch> the asterisk test build took 10 minutes to run apt-get update when I was doing it
<Nafallo> wow
<ajmitch> Nafallo: yes, was a bit annoying
<Nafallo> I only know gb.archive was busted in the morning
<jtaylor> is it to late to get the dropbear dsa?
<jtaylor> http://packages.qa.debian.org/d/dropbear/news/20120227T150235Z.html
<ScottK> jtaylor: It's too late for -release.  I asked in #ubuntu-security about syncing it to precise-security.
<pabelanger> FWIW: I would rather have seen bug 987772 rejected.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 987772 in asterisk (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Update to asterisk 1.8.10.1 for security fixes" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/987772
<pabelanger> too late in the release process of precise for such a jump in asterisk versions
<Laney> I didn't see anybody volunteering to fix the grave bugs separately.
<ScottK> If there are feature regressions they can be addressed in post-release SRUs when fixes are available.
<pabelanger> I submitted debdiffs a few weeks ago no traction on them
<pabelanger> ScottK: well, we basically invalidated anybody testing by bumping asterisk at the last second
<ScottK> OK.  I'm not the developer that made the call, but I'm glad we aren't releasing with security issues unfixed.
<ScottK> I don't insist we got there the best way we could have.
<jtaylor> last I looked the patches had issues which where not adressed
<jtaylor> but I too was suprised at this last second update oO
<pabelanger> Indeed, jumping from 1:1.8.4.4 to 1:1.10.1.0 at the last second is not a wise move, IMO.
<Laney> Again, nobody was stepping up to fix the CVEs. The best option we had was to take a version which does have (some of) them fixed.
<Laney> It's all well and good complaning after the fact.
<jtaylor> I agree with that, better a broken package that is fixable with upstream support than an insecure one
<jtaylor> though was the lts issue clarified?
<jtaylor> I guess as when the old one was upstream supported there would have been better patches
<Laney> I didn't personally look into it very much. It is very likely that the package will need further attention post-release.
<dupondje> cyphermox: there ?
<Laney> Question is whether there is someone interested enough to take the care.
<cyphermox> dupondje: yep
<dupondje> I tested the Remmina fix, and it works smooth here. But there is another thing. Clipboard is also broken. Would like to fix that, but but stuck atm. Dunno if you could give me some help ? :)
<pabelanger> Laney: how fast of a turn around are we expecting?  AST-2012-004, AST-2012-005 and AST-2012-006 were just released yesterday. I've had patches in launchpad for AST-2011-012, AST-2012-002 and AST-2012-003 for 6 weeks, and they were security issues.
<cyphermox> dupondje: sure, are you going to still be around later? I should get going but I'll be back in a few hours.
<cyphermox> dupondje: it would also be good if you told me how far you got with the clipboard stuff ;)
<dupondje> well going to sleep in 1-1,5h :)
<cyphermox> that's not long enough ;)
<dupondje> CET :)
<cyphermox> aye.
<Laney> pabelanger: I don't see anything on the sponsorship queue http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/index.html (or the security one https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-security-sponsors/+subscribedbugs)
<dupondje> g_signal_connect(G_OBJECT(gtk_clipboard_get(GDK_SELECTION_PRIMARY)), "owner-change", G_CALLBACK(remmina_plugin_rdp_on_cuttext), gp); => I added this to the code. this should be triggered when clipboard content changes. But remmina_plugin_rdp_on_cuttext is never called.
<Laney> where were they? Perhaps I can help them get back on track.
<cyphermox> dupondje: so what I suggest is can you tell me how far you got with the clipboard support? I think we should be uploading this separately anyway. clipboard sounds more like a new feature than scrolling with the mouse wheel when normal scrolling works ;)
<dupondje> true :) Scrolling is small patch also, Clipboad will be some more work
<cyphermox> right
<cyphermox> ok, so I'll watch for pings, sorry I have to run about now to catch a bug ;)
<dupondje> with the clipboard i'm just stuck that the signal never gets called it seems :s
<cyphermox> *bus
<cyphermox> ok
<dupondje> ok :) thx
<pabelanger> Don't worry about it, it is just frustrating doing months of testing on a specific version of software, throughout the release cycle, to have it all erased in the last week
 * ScottK can certainly understand that.
<Laney> I'm sorry your patches fell through the cracks. If you have anything in future then please don't hesistate to make some noise in here.
<Laney> and as you can see from this incident, asterisk clearly needs someone who is responsible for it. It'd be great if that could be you. (then we can bug you in future) :-)
<pabelanger> np, that's not my issue, rolling the latest and greatest version asterisk for an LTS at the last second; with zero testing is.
<pabelanger> Ya, I've tried a few times for membership and help maintain it however apparently I was doing the wrong path.  I kept talking to the wrong people
#ubuntu-motu 2012-04-25
<Corey> If I have a package I'm building that doesn't have a makefile in any sense-- it's just a list of files that all get stuffed into one directory, what do I populate my Rules file with?
<SpamapS> Corey: minimal rules file is fine
<Corey> SpamapS: Thanks.
<SpamapS> Corey: then have an 'install' file which lists all the files and where they go
<Corey> SpamapS: Yeah, it's kinda crappy, but "the entire contents of the tarball should wind up in $directory"
<Corey> So it SHOULD be stupidly simple to package.
<Corey> I'm trying to get git-dch to write a commit message, but it keeps whining about the version not being found.  What's the proper version string for a "first run" of git-dch?
<Corey> (building a package from scratch, new debian directory and changelog)
<dholbach> good morning
<geser> good morning dholbach
<dholbach> hi geser
<Rhonda> oh. release tomorrow.
<nigelb> *whee*
<dholbach> ajmitch, is #ubuntuwire the best place to get in touch with its sysadmins?
<geser> dholbach: usually it is (though one has to consider the timezone differences)
<dholbach> ajmitch, bdfhjk (who leads the Ubuntu Algorithms team) wants to host a voting service somewhere but couldn't get in touch with uw sysadmins
<dholbach> wgrant, ^ too
<dholbach> geser, is there a mailing list maybe?
<dholbach> ah ok found it
<geser> dholbach: not sure if there is any working e-mail address (lists.ubuntuwire.org shows only the default apache "It works!" page" and the admin team website is 404)
<dholbach> :-(
<dholbach> geser, who's all on the admin team? (apart from William and Andrew)
<dholbach> I'll suggest to bdfhjk to get in touch with them directly then
<geser> dholbach: I'd try to ask them both first too, don't know if anybody else is admin
<dholbach> ok
<dholbach> thanks geser
<geser> and let bdfhjk know about the timezone William an Andrew are in. bdfhjk tried already in #ubuntuwire to contact an admin but at the wrong time for both and left before they could answer
<dholbach> will do
<tumbleweed> bdrung: I see distro-info-data has a debian backport. It should be updated and I'm not in the backports keyring. Are you?
<bregma> one of my team is preparing an SRU for precise and I'm trying to sponsor him (my first time sponsoring someone else, I've never seen it from this end of the tunnel) -- do I need to debsign the .changes file before uploading to precise-proposed?
<tumbleweed> yes, everything that's uploaded is signed
<tumbleweed> as a sponsor, you are just signing the upload for the sponsoree
<bregma> right, just making sure
<tumbleweed> (btw, sponsor-patch makes this easy)
<bregma> it always seemed like magic when someone else did it for me
<bregma> I guess it;s sufficiently advanced technology
<tumbleweed> heh
 * Laney always rebuilds the source package (+ changes)
<tumbleweed> and reviews the diff, presumably
<Laney> well, yes
<Laney> that's not the entire process
<Laney> I also build it, for example :P
<Laney> and roll a D20, and down some tequila. you know, usual stuff.
<bregma> download tequila now.....
<bregma> ugh, I think I'm going to upload
<Laney> if you set DEBSIGN_KEYID in ~/.devscripts there's not much that can go wrong
<bregma> hmm, sponsor-patch (nice tool, btw) fails for me because the Ubuntu packaging branch is several versions out of date from the current Ubuntu release -- what gives?
<bregma> have I done something egregiously wrong somewhere?
<jtaylor> nice another asterisk dsa
<jtaylor> this really is a good package for having no proper maintainer :/
<jtaylor> at least precise should be easy now :)
<micahg> jtaylor: we have a few of those in universe that could use someone looking after them
<micahg> bregma: no, you can file a bug against the UDD project if there isn't one for the import failure, see http://package-import.ubuntu.com/status/
<Laney> sadly so
<tumbleweed> bregma: there are a few of those http://package-import.ubuntu.com/status/
<tumbleweed> ah, micahg got there already
<bregma> a maze of twisty little passages, all different
<bregma> so this problem deserves a new bug all of its own or should it be me-too'd?
<tumbleweed> which package is it?
<bregma> I can see the import failed for utouch-evemu, utouch-frame, and utouch-geis (all three of which I have uploaded in the past at some point)
<tumbleweed> those all look xz related
<tumbleweed> pristine-tar recently got basic xz support, I wonder if its still broken
<micahg> they might not be using that version yet :)
<micahg> maxb: ^^ can you comment to this?
<tumbleweed> bregma: if the packaging branch is broken, what were you sponsoring from? if it was a debdiff the broken branch wouldn't have been an issue
<bregma> we haven't gotten as far as making the debdiff, I have just been running the sponsor-patch tool as a test to understand how it works, but we're preparing a release against our packaging branch that we usually prepare full uploads from
<tumbleweed> right. sponsor-patch doesn't support non-UDD packaging branches
<bregma> if the import was working the Ubuntu branch should have been identical to our packaging branch so any debdiff should have been identical (in theory)
<tumbleweed> right, but it would try and do a bzr merge, which won't work if the history doesn't have a common ancestor
<bregma> well, I have no problem sticking to the tried-and-true dput I'm used to in Debian
<tumbleweed> there's no reason it couldn't be taught to support them, either. That's just not a very common use case for ubuntu sponsors
<jethrogb> just drawing some attention to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xtables-addons/+bug/916606
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 916606 in xtables-addons (Ubuntu) "[PATCH] xtables-addons-dkms 1.40-1: xtables-addons kernel module failed to build" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<tumbleweed> jethrogb: nobody saw it, clearly
<tumbleweed> there are lots of packages that failed to build and we never got to fixing
<tumbleweed> too many, basically
<tumbleweed> that said, it can still be done. Would you like to prepare an SRU and request sponsorship for it?
<tumbleweed> !sru
<ubottu> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<tumbleweed> !sponsorship
<ubottu> You can find out about the package sponsorship process here http://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess - For !UDS sponsorship see http://uds.ubuntu.com/participate/sponsorship/
<jethrogb> tumbleweed: maybe, that is not going to happen anytime soon though
<tumbleweed> I'm happy to have a look at it, nothing urgent in front of me right now
<jethrogb> thanks
#ubuntu-motu 2012-04-26
<dholbach> good morning
<geser> good morning
<mvineetmenon> when's the release??12.04??
<Laney> mvineetmenon: please visit #ubuntu-release-party for such questions
<mvineetmenon> @laney : ok..thx
<bregma> do not stack stuff on top of your magic trackpad
<ScottK> tumbleweed, bdrung: http://paste.debian.net/165459/
<Laney> ScottK: get the distro-info-data SRU from -proposed
<ScottK> It is a design that is idiotic beyond belief to crash in this case.
<ScottK> I will.
<tumbleweed> ScottK: we don't really have any better solution to the problem
<tumbleweed> either it fails with an error
<ScottK> Why should pbuilder-dist precise update not work today just like it did yesterday?
<tumbleweed> or it assumes that the last release it knows about is still the devel release. But we know that it isn't
<ScottK> It doesn't matter what the devel release is.
<ScottK> I told it which one I wanted.
<StevenK> There is no devel release currently.
<ScottK> That too.
<tumbleweed> clearly the problem here is
<tumbleweed>     if self.target_distro == UbuntuDistroInfo().devel():
<tumbleweed> because we only have forward mappings not reverse...
<tumbleweed> but the general problem of what to do when the data is out of date is often: fail
<ScottK> I've been thinking it was time to learn about sbuild anyway.
<tumbleweed> :)
<tumbleweed> and in the last few days I've been thinking that I need to fix the worst of these cases. Mark is getting less and less timely with his name announcements
<Rhonda> Hmm, what's the Q
<Rhonda> quetzal â¦  now trying to figure out how long I need to be able to type that properly.  Quicker than oneiric or slower â¦
<tumbleweed> quantal is the word you need to type
<Rhonda> oh, right
<Rhonda> quantalamera?
<tumbleweed> heh
 * Rhonda suddenly has some mariachis before her eyes :)
<Rhonda> Noone wants to update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/?  :)
<EvilResistance> update how?
<EvilResistance> :P
<highvoltage> Rhonda: perhaps they did and they're just waiting for it to save? #ubuntuwikislowness ;)
<Rhonda> precise from "to be released" to "released"? :)
<EvilResistance> the wiki can be pretty slow actually
 * Rhonda tries to do herself
<EvilResistance> tbph i could probably *try* to edit, but i'm lazy :P
<highvoltage> Rhonda: oops, me too :)
 * EvilResistance also doesnt have any special role, and might be blocked
<highvoltage> Rhonda: well, saved :)
<Rhonda> highvoltage, you'll beat me to it, I'm not even logged in yet ;)
<EvilResistance> question now
<EvilResistance> do you even need "to be released"
<EvilResistance> (probably, but with nothting there it makes the page look... weird might be the word)
<Rhonda> Yes, I use it to follow the link to the release information for the next one :)
<Rhonda> â¦ highvoltage could have added quantal below instead :)
 * highvoltage is on it
<highvoltage> (just finding the exact dates)
<Rhonda> Just put "TBA"
<Laney> and kill maverick?
<Rhonda> Ah, right, should update packages.ubuntu.com me thinks  :)
<tumbleweed> highvoltage: these were what I could determine: http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=collab-maint/distro-info-data.git;a=commitdiff;h=89022e2351ec3cd60c457c2b3436b74d54d7ac84 (dates)
<EvilResistance> Laney:  you mean on the main page, remove the maverick row?
<Laney> yes
<highvoltage> done and done
<EvilResistance> Laney:  has the dev schedule for Quantal been published yet?
<Rhonda> shouldn't hardy moved on the /Releases page to EOLed?
<Laney> a draft
<Rhonda> Ah, no, april 2013
<EvilResistance> hardy for servers, yes.
<Rhonda> Yep, Laney, maverick killed
<highvoltage> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseSchedule is where the draft is, fwiw
<EvilResistance> i take it thath backporting from Precise still works (if I can show the package to backport builds, runs, installs, uninstalls correctly on the release being backported to)?
<Laney> yes
<Laney> and reverse-depends too
<Rhonda> I think I'll postpone the changes to the packages site for now.
<Rhonda> Laney: Btw backports, wesnoth 1.10.2 upcoming  ;)
 * Laney is registering precise-backports now
<EvilResistance> Laney:  reverse depends in which context?  that the dependencies for the package that exist in say, Precise, must also exist in, say, Oneiric, and not cause significant breakage?
<EvilResistance> s/significant breakage/breakage/
<tumbleweed> you don't register them when the release name is announced?
<Laney> nah
<Laney> you think someone might hijack the name?
<tumbleweed> it's possible. But you've got the lp admins on your side :)
<EvilResistance> Laney:  what do i need to worry about with the rdeps?
<Laney> that they work with the new package
<EvilResistance> apart from rdeps not existing on the release the package is being backported to
<EvilResistance> ah, of course :P
<EvilResistance> i know that the package in question (ZNC) when it was backported to ONeiric from Precise/sid and its rdeps worked
 * EvilResistance will confirm with the latest version of ZNC from Precise in an Oneiric env
<bobweaver> hello there I am trying to fix a bug for dwww the bug is here https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dwww/+bug/988937   my question is I am playing with the Makefile for the .desktop file and was wondering what is the correct value for a icon dir ? Here is Makefile well one of them   http://paste.ubuntu.com/947578/ thanks for your time.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 988937 in dwww (Ubuntu) "Icon is not there for unity." [Undecided,New]
<bobweaver> Ok so I fixed the error where to upload too ?
<bobweaver> or push sorry
<bobweaver> I keep getting error bzr: ERROR: Permission denied: "~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/precise/dwww/": : Cannot create branch at '/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/precise/dwww'          <~~ I am sure that that is not the right place
<astraljava> bobweaver: If you don't have permissions for that project, you can push into your own branch and suggest a merge proposal.
<bobweaver> thanks astraljava
<bobweaver>  \o/ it worked  now just to try to merge :)
<jtaylor> can we already sync stuff to quantal?
<jtaylor> for security
<Laney> it'll be easiest to just wait
<micahg> jtaylor: not open yet
<Laney> but i think technically it would go to unapproved
<jtaylor> its more to make sure that the precise version gets superseeded by quantal
<jtaylor> but ubuntu0.12.04.1 should be fine
<Laney> why is that time critical?
<micahg> not sure if there's a way to test build yet :)
<bobweaver> that was my next question how, long till I install alpha Quantal  aka when will alpha be here ?
<bobweaver> Is there a mailing list for that ?
<jtaylor> ubuntu-devel
<Laney> -announce
<bobweaver> thanks again jtaylor  I am turning into a skipping recored with that
<bobweaver> need to make alais :)
<pabelanger> So, packages for precise go through the -proposed process now, right?
<pabelanger> s/package/bugs/
<pabelanger> bug 989205
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 989205 in glance (Ubuntu) "Give glance group read permission to /etc/glance" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/989205
<micahg> pabelanger: yes
<pabelanger> micahg: cool, just confirming.  THanks
<jtaylor> pabelanger: there was another asterisk dsa from debian with several quite serious issues, can you take care of them?
<jtaylor> 2460-1
<pabelanger> jtaylor: Ya, I can see what is need to do for the other branches of ubuntu.  A FFE for asterisk was recently done, which should address these issues
<nixternal> distro_info.DistroDataOutdated: Distribution data outdated   <- anyone with an idea of why I am getting that with pbuilder-precise let me know
<nixternal> it worked a few days ago
<ajmitch> nixternal: I heard word of a 0-day SRU to fix distro-info
<nixternal> yeah, ScottK already told me
 * ajmitch is just too slow :)
<nixternal> old age does that to you
<bdrung> tumbleweed: i am in the backports keyring. i will do the backport once i fully recovered from the hard drive failure
#ubuntu-motu 2012-04-27
<ajmitch> nixternal: I should know not to go to lunch when you've got comments like that :)
<nixternal> muhahaha
<dholbach> good morning
<geser> good morning
<dholbach> hi geser
<bullgard4> [Ubuntu 11.10] What does mean the string Â»fakesyncÂ« in the installed release Â»1.12.1-3.1fakesync1Â« of the package mpg123?
<micahg> bullgard4: original tarball is different between Ubuntu and Debian
<Rhonda> micahg: duh. shouldn't that be represented in the upstream version somehow?
<micahg> Rhonda: no, same upstream version
<Rhonda> so that the orig tarball also has a different filename?
<Laney> somehow the same upstream version got uploaded to ubuntu with a different tarball
<Rhonda> Right, but 1.12.1fakesync1-3.1 would work?
<micahg> well, unless it's a generated tarball, this really shouldn't happen (although it happened with blueman, I used the upstream tarball, not sure what the DM did)
<micahg> Rhonda: that would require a reupload of the tarball
<micahg> the idea is that we don't have a diff, but we can't sync
<bullgard4> micahg: Thank you very much for your ample explanation and help.
<micahg> bullgard4: IIRC, I did that fakesync as well :)
<Laney> tumbleweed: could you start generating the quantal rdepends data?
<tumbleweed> hrm, is that not automatic
<Laney> dunno, but http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/rdepends/v1/quantal/all/ghc
<tumbleweed> aah, it uses distro-info :)
<Laney> if it comes from distr..
<Laney> yes
<Laney> :P
 * tumbleweed git pulls
 * ajmitch should probably add quantal to the rcbugs thing as well
<tumbleweed> so when do we upgrade syklone to precise? :)
<tumbleweed> Laney: running now
<Laney> ta very much
<ajmitch> tumbleweed: one day...
<Laney> do it now. dare you.
<ajmitch> Laney: sure, you don't need it working do you?
<Laney> you're saying that precise wouldn't work?
<Laney> :O
<ajmitch> I'm sure it'd be perfect in every way
<ajmitch> except that it's near midnight here & I'd probably end up deleting critical files :)
<tumbleweed> Laney: and it aborted because of the archive.ubuntu.cmo load :)
<Laney> heh
<geser> will quantal sync from testing or unstable?
<directhex> EXPERIMENTAL ;o
<micahg> geser: TBD apparently :)
<tumbleweed> currently testing
<sagaci> that's interesting
<Laney> does anyone know what "attend this meeting" on summit does?
 * Laney is clicking that rather than subscribing to blueprints, but will it do what I wat?
<Laney> want
<tumbleweed> oh, there's a "Propose a meeting" button
<tumbleweed> Laney: presumably that will mean you don't get blueprint e-mail
<sagaci> looks like you need to subscribe to the blueprint separately
<Laney> will it have the same scheduling effect?
<Laney> there's nothing corresponding to participation essential
<Laney> I like not having to subscribe to blueprints :-)
<Laney> hah, searching for "ubuntu summit developers" doesn't work so well
<Laney> (a permutation of the words is something else ...)
<bullgard4> micahg: :-)
<aboudreault> hi. if I have 2 packages in my source package: libX and X-bin. How can I tell that X-bin need the shared library or libX ?
<geser> aboudreault: how does your Depends: line for X-bin in debian/control look like?
<aboudreault> Depends: ${python:Depends}, ${shlibs:Depends}, ${misc:Depends}
<geser> looks good
<aboudreault> checking what debuild does.... looks like I build ALL, then install. so wondering how it can find my libmapserver if it is not installed
<aboudreault> I only have libtool files at this point. (in .libs)
<geser> can you upload/pastebin the build log somewhere?
<Rhonda> hmmmm
<Rhonda> debuild --no-lintian -sa -v'1:1.10.1-1~lucid1'
<Rhonda> Do I need the -v switch for backports uploads?
<Rhonda> â¦ for ubuntu backports uploads.  *peeks at Laney*
<Laney> I suppose it would be nice
<Laney> but that version is already in lucid-backports?
<aboudreault> geser, 2 mins.
<aboudreault> geser, http://paste.pocoo.org/show/587955/
<Rhonda> Laney: sure that version is in, that's the whole point of the -v switch. ;)
<Rhonda> Laney: To use the latest version from the archive, and thus include all changelog entries in the changesfile _since_
<Rhonda> ah, quantal created
<Laney> Rhonda: oh, I see what you're proposing
<Laney> I was confused because I did'nt see a new request
<Laney> yes, I suggest you use that.
<Rhonda> Huhm
<Rhonda> no maverick anymore
<Laney> indeed
<Rhonda> So I can dump the maverick-backports branch :)
 * Laney turns off maverick-backports
 * Laney wonders how to do that
<Rhonda> lol :)
<geser> aboudreault: I don't know what's wrong there but it doesn't look like a packaging error yet, as the build doesn't finish. It looks like the perl and python bindings assume that the library got installed by the time they get build
<aboudreault> well, the error is: /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lmapserver
<aboudreault> mapserver is the library I built earlier in the build log
<aboudreault> the ld should only be done at install?
<tumbleweed> aboudreault: -L. to help it find it?
<tumbleweed> (or whatever the right path is)
<aboudreault> tumbleweed, what wasmy initial question, what's the proper way to do that? specifying an extra -L./libs doesn't sound right to me
<aboudreault> s/what/that
<tumbleweed> why doesn't that sound right?
<tumbleweed> sure, your build system should do it for you, but that's what you want it to do
<aboudreault> checking to fix my build system
<Rhonda> Laney, bug #989801  :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 989801 in Oneiric Backports "please backport wesnoth-1.10 from precise" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/989801
<Rhonda> â¦ and speaking about, shouldn't #932011 be switched to fix released?
<Rhonda> Does this need to be done manually?
 * Rhonda sets them to Fix Released, if that's wrong someone is invited to slap me on the fingers. :)
<pabelanger> I'm pretty surprised about the default file permissions for most openstack components (nova, glance, keystone).  Out of the box we are shipping /etc/{nova, glance, keystone] with 0700. Even their group permission cannot read the folders
<pabelanger> got patches up in launchpad hower
<pabelanger> however*
<trijntje> Hi all, can anybody tell me who is responsible for hosting the tracker for ubuntu torrents?
 * cjwatson answers trijntje in #ubuntu-devel.  (One channel at a time, please.)
<Laney> Rhonda: yes and yes
<Laney> Rhonda: have you test built/installed/upgraded?
<Rhonda> Laney: Not yet, just wanted to get it started :)
<Rhonda> Laney: You know I am that kind of optimist that always believes that there are others out there who would help out  :)
<aboudreault> by default, where dh_install install things?
<aboudreault> ah no... it just put things into deb file.
<jtaylor> by default dh_install does nothing, only when you add .install files or call it when arguments something is done
<spartan-11510> Hi everybody, i need some help to fix a package. i find a translation error and i patch them, but i can't execute "bzr bd -- -S -us -uc" because he says me that http://paste.ubuntu.com/950554/
<jtaylor> spartan-11510: run dpkg-source --commit and fill out the forms
<spartan-11510> thank you but i don't understand all of forms like "Origin: <vendor|upstream|other>" package are hello in precise
<jtaylor> spartan-11510: you don't need to fill out everything, just delete what you think is unimportant
<jtaylor> spartan-11510: see http://dep.debian.net/deps/dep3/ what the tags mean
<jtaylor> if you add yourself in the author tag, origin is not required
<spartan-11510> thank you really much, it's very difficult to begin in bug fixing
<spartan-11510> I've fill the forms and i retry  "bzr bd -- -S -us -uc" but it doesn't work  http://paste.ubuntu.com/950596/
<jtaylor> spartan-11510: you have to add the patch in debian/patches to bzr and commit it
<jtaylor> bzr add file; bzr commit
<Laney> Rhonda: you never know. Upload to a PPA or something and you could be surprised. :-)
<spartan-11510> i've patch the package, now i try to test it but it doesn't work. This line it's correct? "pbuilder-dist precise build ../hello_2.7-3ubuntu1.dsc"
<jtaylor> whats the error?
<spartan-11510> W: /home/spartan-117/.pbuilderrc does not exist
<spartan-11510> E: File /home/spartan-117/pbuilder/precise-base.tgz does not exist
<jtaylor> you have to create a pbuiler base first
<jtaylor> pbuilder-dist precise <arch> create
<jtaylor> where <arch> is amd64 or i386 depending on what your system is
<spartan-11510> i've created but i forgot the precise
<jtaylor> is reverse-depends broken in precise?
<jtaylor> I get unknown release
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: DB update hasn't managed to run yet. archive.ubuntu.com is too flaky
<spartan-11510> jtaylor: when i commit my patch with bzr, i can build my package?
<jtaylor> spartan-11510: probably yes
<spartan-11510> jtaylor: i don't understand i've build my package, and when i install it, the package doesn't change the bug still here, but the file has been modified
<micahg> tumbleweed: can you mirror of of something else?
<micahg> *off
<tumbleweed> micahg: I tried that earlier and it still died. Let me have another poke at it...
<tumbleweed> unfortunately it takes a very long time to run
<Laney> everyone loves the s3 mirrors
<Laney> apparently
<tumbleweed> yeah, tried those
<tumbleweed> got a 403
<Laney> the horror
<tumbleweed> indeed
<tumbleweed> $ HEAD http://eu-west-1.ec2.archive.ubuntu.com.s3.amazonaws.com/ubuntu/dists/quantal/Release
<tumbleweed> 403 Forbidden
<Laney> maybe they weren't meant to be used
<Laney> externally to AWS I mean
<tumbleweed> it's only quantal that's 403ing
<Laney> oh
<Laney> general fail then
<tumbleweed> i.e. near the end of the run :(
<spartan-11510> jtaylor: I need to re-package for build package with my patch?
<jtaylor> spartan-11510: I don't know much about translations, maybe you patched the wrong file?
<spartan-11510> jtaylor: i don't understand, i continue to try fixing this error, thnak you really much i learned important things
<tumbleweed> deb822.py: WARNING: cannot parse package relationship "gettext:any", returning it raw
<tumbleweed> hrm, didn't know that was allowed in the archive, yet
<micahg> only for build dependencies IIRC
<tumbleweed> yeah, that was B-Ds
 * tumbleweed adds support for that
<micahg> quantal should start allowing those in binary deps since dpkg is guaranteed to be new enough
<jtaylor> how is this incompatibility between .6.1 and .6.2 going to be handled?
<jtaylor> that one which happened in the unstable upload
<jtaylor> dpkg 1.16.1 -> 1.16.2
<tumbleweed> I assume you read buxy's follow-up on that?
<micahg> jtaylor: infinity volunteered for that I think
<jtaylor> some perl script to update it you mean?
<micahg> well, something to not break our systems on upgrade :)
<tumbleweed> micahg: great, can't find any reference to :any in debian-policy / multiarch spec
<micahg> tumbleweed: well, I shouldn't say for sure, it was implied :)
<tumbleweed> it's in ubuntu's multiarchhowto wiki page, but IIRC that predates the debian multiarch wiki page
<tumbleweed> micahg: reverse-deps DB has generated
<micahg> tumbleweed: cool, thanks
<tumbleweed> just in time for it's next cronjob :)
<tumbleweed> its
<tumbleweed> I'm ignoring :any for now, but submitted a ptach to python-debian
<tumbleweed> (ignoring as in those build-deps will be entirely ignored)
<micahg> tumbleweed: couldn't you just treat it as s/:any//?
<tumbleweed> probably by doing a regex replacement like that, yes
<tumbleweed> otherwise, I need my fixed python debian that won't fail trying to parse them
<micahg> that's the effect on regular build deps, it was only changed to support cross-building
 * tumbleweed quickly does that in time for the next generation run
<tumbleweed> urgh, no, it's not going to be easy
 * tumbleweed leaves it for now
<tumbleweed> -> bed
#ubuntu-motu 2012-04-28
<askhl> Hi.  Shouldn't programmes that use gettext depend on gettext?  They generally seem not to.  Is this somehow implicit?
<ScottK> askhl: They should.
<askhl> ScottK: Thanks
<askhl> Hmm... I suppose many packages recursively end up depending on gettext in any case
<ScottK> Probably, although one is not supposed to depend on that, packages frequently do.
<ScottK> It's a bug in the package, but a minor one.
<askhl> The standard gettext stuff though (to just use gettext, not to compile translations), does that not require the actual gettext package?
<ScottK> That's correct (AIUI)
<askhl> So one would depend on some standard library, and then that's why nobody needs to depend on gettext
<askhl> But if actual gettext stuff (like msgfmt) is part of the build procedure, then probably hte source package should depend on gettext
<ScottK> You would more likely need to build-depend on gettext.
<askhl> Exactly!
<askhl> I think I get it now.  Thanks
<jtaylor> does debian delete their transition trackers when they are done?
<jtaylor> wanted to look up the hdf5 ben line but can't find it :(
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: according to https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/ReleaseTeam/TransitionTracker they keep them in config/old on release.d.o, which I can't access. So poke a debian release team member
<Laney> jtaylor: tumbleweed: http://release.debian.org/transitions/config/old/
<Laney> or ries.debian.org:/srv/release.debian.org/www/transitions/config/old
<tumbleweed> ah, that's easy
<jtaylor> Laney: bookmarked thanks, if it already makes sense can you set up the tracker for quantal?
<Laney> ok
<Laney> should be there at the next run
<jtaylor> thx
<Laney> probably should have trimmed the arch list
<Laney> hmm
<jtaylor> ubuntu's ben does not know which arches it has?
<jtaylor> would libhdf5 be autosynced before its dependencies so we get free rebuilds?
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: sync it before the archive opens
<tumbleweed> wel,l before autosyncs start
<jtaylor> can we already do that?
<tumbleweed> if you want it before the archive opens, bring that up in #ubuntu-release
<tumbleweed> it's just a freeze, syncs/uploads go to unapproved
<Laney> it has an ubuntu delta
<jtaylor> that can be dropped
<jtaylor> so I do a syncpackage which will be probably be approved before autosyncs?
<jtaylor> micahg: you were also interested in hdf5, objections to that ^?
<tumbleweed> I think so. I suggest bringing it up in #ubuntu-release to get archive-admin attention
<Laney> i don't know why it needs special attention like that
<Laney> but it is possible, yes
<jtaylor> yes special attention is not required
<tumbleweed> it proabbly doesn't, but nice to get it in before the autosyncs
<tumbleweed> then again, those usually start a day or two after archive open
<jtaylor> afk 20 min
<tumbleweed> Laney: when are we getting an index.html for ben?
<Laney> that has been ready for ages
<tumbleweed> that's what I thought
<tumbleweed> oh, hdf5 isn't that big
<EvilResistance> if i want to have a fix uploaded to a package currently in `main` what's the procedure to request that fix in the main repositories?  i know the MOTUs govern the Universe repository, but how does one get a (minor) bugfix pushed into main (if ever)
<Laney> the process is the same, it's just that the set of sponsors is a bit different
<EvilResistance> that'd be the ubuntu-sponsors team, right Laney?
<EvilResistance> (for who needs to be subscribed to the corresponding bug)
<Laney> right
<EvilResistance> assuming its  not *my* bug, but someone else's bug and they attached a patch to the bug for a package, am I still allowed to help the bug poster out by subscribing ubuntu-sponsors to the bug?  (since they asked in #ubuntu-bugs how to get the fix pushed/applied)
<Laney> yeah. bonus points if you make it into a debdiff that can be uploaded
<Laney> and forward it upstream / to debian if appropriate.
<EvilResistance> it'd need to be sent to debian, because its the 'hello' package, but in the last 500 times i've tried to send patches/debdiffs up to Debian its failed
<EvilResistance> so getting the fix to Debian would require some...
<EvilResistance> help...
<Laney> ok, so tell me how it fails
<EvilResistance> good question
<EvilResistance> it gets sent over to Debian, and then disappears
 * EvilResistance isnt sure why
<Laney> I bet you don't have local mail (sendmail) working. reportbug assumes that you do by default.
<Laney> stick "smtphost reportbug.debian.org" in ~/.reportbugrc
<Laney> or another smtp host
<EvilResistance> um... small problem, when i generate the debdiff it... kinda adds my information in the debian/changelog to the diff...
<EvilResistance> (because i have to build the package to get the .dsc)
<Laney> submittodebian filters it out, or you can do it yourself with filterdiff
<EvilResistance> hmm, debdiff isnt reading my keys...
<EvilResistance> wth is up with that...
<EvilResistance> Laney:  debdiff isnt working, stating it cant find my RSA key
<EvilResistance> s/rsa/gpg/
<Laney> can you paste the error?
<EvilResistance> actually its wokring, but its generating this error: https://pastebin.com/x0bfys0y
<EvilResistance> and it still outputs the diff ...
<EvilResistance> stuff
<EvilResistance> problem is it wont let me filterdiff it :/
<Laney> debdiff takes a --exclude parameter too
<Laney> debdiff --exclude changelog a.dsc b.dsc > foo.debdiff
<EvilResistance> thanks
<vvv> How do I find out where is the original upstream of some program I want to patch?
<jtaylor> mostly there is a homepage tag in debian/control
<tumbleweed> otherwise, google
<tumbleweed> debian/watch can also be helpful
<vvv> http://packages.debian.org/squeeze/cpuid
<vvv> It's unclear where is the home page
<vvv> And googling CPUID would be no good
<tumbleweed> I see: Homepage: http://www.ka9q.net/code/cpuid/
<vvv> Ah, here it is
<vvv> Last updated 1 Jan 2002 to support AMD Athlon/Duron, and to tighten the code.
<vvv>  
<jtaylor> 2002 is pretty useless for cpuid ^^
<tumbleweed> (that's the old way of doing it, a line in the description)
<vvv> Okay, I am not surprised it is ungodly out-of-date
<tumbleweed> http://packages.qa.debian.org/c/cpuid.html
<tumbleweed> last uploaded in 2006 :)
<jtaylor> that thing should be removed
<vvv> Where do I submit parches in such case?
<jtaylor> it probably causes more harm than good
<tumbleweed> I suggest reading debian bug 596110
<ubottu> Debian bug 596110 in cpuid "Newer, better cpuid available" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/596110
<jtaylor> having cpuid packaged is nevertheless not a good idea, at least in ubuntu
<jtaylor> you have to sru it constantly to keep it up to date
<vvv> SRU?
<jtaylor> stable release update
<tumbleweed> not that anyone does
<Laney> why is it more or less of a good idea in either distribution?
<jtaylor> it may not have a dedicated maintainer in ubuntu
<tumbleweed> it appears not to have a dedicated maintainer in debian either
<tumbleweed> or upstream
<Laney> there is no reason someone couldn't do just as good a job here if they wanted
#ubuntu-motu 2012-04-29
<micahg> jtaylor: sounds like a good idea, as tumbleweed said, get #ubuntu-release approval first
<ScottK> micahg: It's up to the SRU team now.
<micahg> ScottK: this was for Quantal :)
<micahg> that is if I read backscroll correctly
<ScottK> Oh.
<ScottK> In that case, Ubuntu Archive would deal with removals.
<micahg> ScottK: jtaylor: oh, sorry, I was referencing hdf5, not cpuid
<jtaylor> why would it need release approval?
<keffie_jayx> hello all, I have a question. With regards software that requires of a library released separate with its core features
<tumbleweed> it doesn't need approval, but wouldn't hurt to let it be known that you'd like it synced before autosyncs start
<keffie_jayx> does one package all that in one debian source package?
<tumbleweed> keffie_jayx: a debian source package correlates to a tarball that an upstream releases
<keffie_jayx> tumbleweed: ok that would make two then
<keffie_jayx> and it would make one a build dependency and  dependecy of the other
<keffie_jayx> good
<keffie_jayx> thanks
<tumbleweed> that works
<keffie_jayx> I was confused since sometimes i seee only one dsc generation multiple binary packages
<tumbleweed> that's pretty common
<tumbleweed> especially for libraries. there'll be a separate -dev package, and possibly a -tools / -bin package, possibly a -doc, etc.
<keffie_jayx> thanks tumbleweed
<micahg> jtaylor: uploads before the release opens should be done with release team coordination ;)
#ubuntu-motu 2013-04-22
<dholbach> good morning
<ScottK> jtaylor: Any thoughts on the pytables FTBFS on powerpc from your sync?
<jtaylor> hm
<jtaylor> aren't ftbfs mails sent anymore from syncs?
<jtaylor> I don't know how I could have overlooked that :O
<jtaylor> yesterday I looked at pytables (only in pts) and thought hm I forgot to sync 2.4, oh well to late now ...
<Laney> they never have been for API syncs
<Laney> can't remember if they were for old style ones
<jtaylor> hm how did it work in debian
<jtaylor> probably numpy
<jtaylor> looks like a straightforward fix, they just expect native types to not have the endian prefix, apparently that changed in 1.7
<jtaylor> I guess its still fine to upload that to raring? or remove 2.4?
<ScottK> jtaylor: Looks like cjwatson fixed it.
<jtaylor> oh good
<jtaylor> emulated ppc is so slow .-.
<jtaylor> we really need some stuck in proposed notification system
<jtaylor> I usually check if my stuff goes through, but such mistakes can easily happen
<jtaylor> I guess the ppc queue was long or it took ages to build so I went to bed and forgot about it
<jtaylor> (maybe also relying on a ftbfs mail)
<ScottK> For syncs I usually open a browser tab for them and leave it until it's fully built.
<cjwatson> My fix is a bit crappy but it will do
<cjwatson> For now anyway
<cjwatson> Feel free to supersede with something better in S :)
<jtaylor> its the same I would have done :)
<jtaylor> I'll check with upstream
<jtaylor> cjwatson: thx for fixing it
<ScottK> menesis: Shouldn't your schooltool-book versioin be 2.4.0-0ubuntu1?
<menesis> ScottK: no, it is a native package
<ScottK> Hmmm.
<ScottK> OK.  I see the current package is native too.
<ScottK> I'd suggest that's probably not the best way to do it for the future, but OK for now.
<menesis> probably.
<menesis> It is a new package in raring.
<ScottK> I accepted it.
<menesis> ScottK: thank you
<jtaylor> cjwatson: your tcltk upload will fix all the remaining tcltk build failures?
<jtaylor> will that be reverted post raring?
<jtaylor> s/all/all that use tclConfig.sh/
<crimsun> it should take care of the tclConfig.sh subset...yeah.
<crimsun> i've encountered a couple outliers that do inane things with separate Tcl files; don't think there's a good way to get those
<jtaylor> fixed one of these yesterday
<jtaylor> uses tclConfig.sh but then for some reason still looks for all headers and files and needs the directory its actually in
<cjwatson> jtaylor: I don't see any immediate reason to revert it; it would make the transition easier in Debian, which is generally a good thing, and helps with third-party sources using Tcl/Tk
<cjwatson> Its only real downside is that it creates a dependency on dpkg-dev
<jtaylor> why was it done in the firstplace then?
<cjwatson> YM wasn't?  Well, it kind of seemed like a dirty hack, but meh, not worth the breakage
<jtaylor> YM?
 * crimsun grumbles about CMake module silliness
<jtaylor> cjwatson: you could use gcc -print-multiarch and use gcc as dependency instead, might make more sense
<cjwatson> "YM" -> you mean
<cjwatson> is gcc -print-multiarch reliably identical?
<cjwatson> on all architectures?
<jtaylor> I used dpkg-dev in numpy, then quite quickly got a bug from someone who had gcc but not dpkg-dev
<cjwatson> if so I agree and would be happy to do that for raring
<jtaylor> its a ubuntu only patch so far I know
<cjwatson> er, for S
<jtaylor> so it should work everywhere
<jtaylor> you have to ask doko
<cjwatson> I think dpkg-dev from {tcl,tk}*-dev isn't a major problem though
<cjwatson> I'd have worried more if they hadn't been *-dev packages
#ubuntu-motu 2013-04-23
<dholbach> good morning
<geser> good morning
<iulian> Morning guys.
#ubuntu-motu 2013-04-24
<ScottK> Logan_: Does your libfakekey merge add anything of significant value?  It seemed to me like something that could wait for "S".
<Logan_> ScottK: The main, important change is that it fixes a misleading package description.
<ScottK> Logan_: libfakekey-dev is a documentation package?
<Logan_> No, libfakekey-doc is.
<ScottK> Ah, misreading the diff.
<ScottK> Thanks.
<ScottK> Accepted (along with your others)
<Logan_> Thanks Scott. :)
<ScottK> Keep them coming.
<dholbach> good morning
<jfcaron> Is it possible to request a package be created for an obscure open source program?
<jfcaron> I am finding it very difficult to compile myself.
<jtaylor> you can request it
<jtaylor> but its very unlikely that someone will do it if its so obscure
<jfcaron> Hrm.  It is this scientific program for simulating gaseous ionization detectors: http://garfield.web.cern.ch/garfield/
<jtaylor> uh garfield
<jfcaron> It needs cernlib and gsl and stuff.
<jtaylor> I used that as a student :)
<jfcaron> Hah, maybe not so obscure then?
<jfcaron> I know about a dozen scientists who have struggled with installing it.
<jtaylor> unfortunately a common problem with science software
<jtaylor> especially if 1 Sep 1984
<jtaylor> *Created
<jfcaron> Yar.  You even have to manually download badly-named files and rename them yourself.
<jfcaron> Because the author called them garfadd-9_linux.car or whatever and you need to remove the "_linux" part.
<jfcaron> Instead of making,like, folders.
<jtaylor> I think I never had to install it, only use it
<jtaylor> which was bad enough :)
<jfcaron> There is a newish ROOT/C++ based version available, but it is not complete.
<jtaylor> unfortunately its not in my field anymore, so I don't really feel comfortable packaging it
<jtaylor> also probably no time
<jtaylor> you might want to try in #debian-science on oftc
<jtaylor> but don't expect much, it would be best if you package it and search a sponsor there
<jfcaron> Ok.  I am trying to do a manual installation on a virtual Ubuntu 12 LTS.  Then I can distribute the virtual machine file as a "packaged garfield". = )
<ScottK> jfcaron: There is a Debian Science team that might be interested in that.
<ScottK> RIght, already been said.
<jfcaron> And they are on oftc, not on freenode?
<jtaylor> yes
<jtaylor> or irc.debian.org (an alias)
<jtaylor> the irc channel is not very active, the mailing list might be better
<jtaylor> though you'll likely get the same answer, sponsoring ok, but the work packaging/maintenance needs to be done by you
<jfcaron> Figures.  I'm having trouble compiling it for myself though. =\
<quidnunc> DinstallException: 'Unknown distribution "quantal-backports" in "/var/cache/archive/mini-dinstall/incoming/gpac_0.5.0+svn4288~dfsg1-1ubuntu1~ubuntu12.10.1_source.changes
<quidnunc> ^ How do I fix this?
#ubuntu-motu 2013-04-25
<dholbach> good morning
<freeflying> dholbach: morning
<dholbach> hey freeflying
* ScottK changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: 13.04 Released!  ubuntu-sru is open for business. | Want to get involved with the MOTU? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Sponsor queue: http://bit.ly/fz6AyQ | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs | http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs | Small tasks: http://goo.gl/bSual
<SpamapS> hrw: Hi, your upload of xf86-video-armsoc to raring does not contain any bug references, so I am rejecting. Please add a bug reference, and also just combine the two changelog entries into one without the "for some reason" comment. :)
<hrw> SpamapS: ok
<hrw> SpamapS: thanks
<SpamapS> hrw: release day.. we're in SRU mode for raring now :)
<hrw> SpamapS: I digged too deep in non-ubuntu things so forgot about release
<SpamapS> hrw: no problem. It happens to all of us :)
<hrw> SpamapS: 1-2 weeks and there will be no raring on my machines anyway
<hrw> just waiting for saucy to open
#ubuntu-motu 2013-04-26
 * ScottK < --- Merges done.
<dholbach> good morning
<geser> good morning
<dholbach> hi geser
#ubuntu-motu 2013-04-27
<Legendario> hi
<Legendario> i can't find how to specify the gpg to be used with the "bzr builddeb -S" command
<Legendario> it's falling because it can't find the key
<SpamapS> Legendario: it will use the email address in the changelog
<SpamapS> Legendario: pass  -- -kXXXXXXX@foo.bar to sign with a different key
<Legendario> thanks SpamapS . Is revu down?
<SpamapS> Legendario: revu is .. dead??
<Legendario> SpamapS, revu.ubuntuwire.com
<wgrant> REVU was dismantled several months ago.
<wgrant> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages describes the modern processes for new packages
 * wgrant fixes revu.ubuntuwire.org to point there
<Legendario> wgrant, ohhh... i didn't know. It's been a while since I last packaged something and I can still find wikis which talk about it
<lfaraone> hm. is rmadison slow for everyone against Ubuntu, or is it just me?
<Laney> everyone
#ubuntu-motu 2013-04-28
<gotwig> Hello masters :O
<gotwig> May I talk to you :O
<gotwig> Please push touchegg 1.1 to ubuntu 12.04 and 12.10, as touchegg 1.0 does not work, and delivers segfaults to the users.
<gotwig> (see the user reviews)
<gotwig> where can I report broken software packages in universe?
<jtaylor> micahg: ping ipython backport?
<jtaylor> has anything changed or are backports in ubuntu still impossible?
<jtaylor> I find it weird that ubuntus rules for backporting are so much harsher than debians, given that in universe our general quality is so much worse
<ScottK> jtaylor: Since 75% of Ubuntu packages are unmodified from Debian, how much worse can it really be?
<ScottK> Our backports are, as a rule, safer to use than Debian's.
<jtaylor> we miss out on many bugfixes debian gets
<ScottK> Yes, releasing more often will cause that.
<jtaylor> we are never able to pick all fixes that go into debian post autoimport stop
<ScottK> So there are differences, but I don't think it's radically different.
<jtaylor> my only grievance is the rdepends must build with backports
<jtaylor> I see no reason why we need that
<ScottK> So you don't break user's systems when they install backports.
<ScottK> Sometimes people end up having to backport a set of packages together and that's fine.
<jtaylor> nothing breaks its a build failure
<jtaylor> at least there should be a way around it
<jtaylor> right now it seems I must sru yade to backport ipython
<ScottK> True.  Usually a build failure implies a runtime failure also.
<jtaylor> not in this case
<jtaylor> its just a stupid version check
<ScottK> If it's tested OK at runtime, I think that's OK.
<ScottK> Point me at the bug and I'll say so.
<jtaylor> bug 1074765
<ubottu> bug 1074765 in Quantal Backports "Please backport ipython 0.13.2-1 (universe) from raring" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1074765
<jtaylor> I updated it to the new version in raring, which contains more bugfixes
 * jtaylor just checking if install and upgrade still works, as some changes are in the packaging
<jtaylor> is backports integrated into the autopkgtests?
<ScottK> Dunno.
<ScottK> Please put a comment in explaining the situation on yade.
<debfx> ScottK: is there a process to apply for ~ubuntu-backporters? imho the biggest problem with backports in ubuntu is that the team is understaffed
<ScottK> debfx: The process is talk to me.  Are you interested?
 * ScottK totally agrees with your diagnosis.
<debfx> ScottK: yes
<ember> :q
<ScottK> https://launchpad.net/saucy-backports now exists ..
<highvoltage> saucy.
<coolbhavi> highvoltage, :-)
<micahg> ScottK: re bug 1173817, since there are regressions in other social media, I'm thinking to throw it in backports
<ubottu> bug 1173817 in ttytter (Ubuntu Quantal) "[SRU] Please backport ttytter 2.1.0-1 (multiverse) from raring" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1173817
<skellat> micahg: Yeah, that's the one thing that is lost with the new version.  It also won't matter in about a month as Identica won't be a Twitter-alike service anymore.
<debfx> what regressions are there?
<ScottK> What's happening to identi.ca?
<skellat> The back-end is changing to a Node.js-based bit called pump.io some time in the next 45 days or so.  The original timetable said it should have happened by now but Evan got delayed again.  No new users are being accepted for Identica as of early April, too.
<micahg> debfx: identi.ca and statusnet no longer supported
<debfx> micahg: in that case I agree that it should go into backports
<ScottK> If you agree, I'm OK with it.
<skellat> Okay, what are the next steps I need to take?
<skellat> (If any)
<micahg> skellat: perform the backport testing as originally specified in the description
<skellat> Okay
<skellat> I'll put the paperwork back to what it was
<skellat> So I can keep track
 * micahg resets the tasks
<micahg> skellat: thanks for bearing with us and providing crucial feedback
<skellat> No problem
<skellat> I worked with the DD about getting this taken care of during the Wheezy freeze.  We couldn't get an exception but he got it into Sid and said he'd throw it in backports post-release once it became necessary and possible to do.
<skellat> I had forgotten about it on the Ubuntu side.
<debfx> tumbleweed: reverse-deps is sad without saucy data on the server
<tumbleweed> debfx: oh, sure
<gotwig> I want to report a broken universe package
<gotwig> where can I do that?
<gotwig> why does no one react :(
<gotwig> the package touchegg in version 1.0 is broken in ubuntu 12.04 and 12.10
<gotwig> It would be nice if you could offer version 1.1 for ubuntu 12.04 and 12.10
<gotwig> please take a look at 1174070
<gotwig> bug #1174070
<ubottu> bug 1174070 in touchegg (Ubuntu) "Touchegg 1.0 under 12.04, 12.10 causes segfault, is NOT working. missing backporting of 1.1 to 12.04/12.10" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1174070
#ubuntu-motu 2014-04-22
<CarlFK> http://packages.ubuntu.com/trusty/zoneminder  the post install script needs 2 or 3 tweaks.   I
<CarlFK> I'll give a shot at fixing it, but i am not sure what the process is.  where do I start ?
<CarlFK> the guides are focused on the app's code base.  I am not changing that.
<RAOF> CarlFK: For stuff in the debian/ directory, just make your changes and submit them.
<RAOF> CarlFK: Where âsubmit themâ is either âmake a LP merge proposal with the bzr branch you made the changes inâ or âcreate a debdiff and attach that to a bugâ.
<CarlFK> ah, find the project in LP.. right :D
<RAOF> CarlFK: Since it's in Universe... apt-cache showsrc zoneminder shows âVcs-Hg: http://hg.debian.org/hg/collab-maint/zoneminderâ
<RAOF> If the change you're planning also makes sense in Debian then doing the work in a mercurial branch would be courteous. (Also applies to main, of course, but tends to be more important in universe)
<CarlFK> RAOF: thanks.  wondering about that too.  also.. looks like someone has already submitted the patch: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/zoneminder/+bug/507004
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 507004 in zoneminder (Ubuntu) "Manual postinstalation step required for zoneminder" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<CarlFK> + 	ln -s /etc/zm/apache.conf  /etc/apache2/conf.d/zoneminder.conf
<RAOF> Hm. I wonder if that shouldn't use the a2enable stuff, like other Apache config stuff.
<RAOF> (Which would be, IIUC, install zoneminder.conf into /etc/apache2/conf-avail and then run a2enable zoneminder)
<RAOF> CarlFK: Is there an associated Debian bug? That looks like a reasonable improvement to the packaging (although I'm not particularly familiar with the domain)
<CarlFK> doesn't a2enable work with /etc/apache2/sites-avail and sites-enabled?
<RAOF> There's one that works with config, IIRC.
<CarlFK> RAOF:  I don't see this bug, but I do see  https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=669781   "* Do NOT install any files to /etc/apache2/conf.d/. This directory is  obsolete. Its successor is /etc/apache2/conf-available/ which can be  interfaced through a2enconf/a2disconf"
<ubottu> Debian bug 669781 in zoneminder "zoneminder: transition towards Apache 2.4" [Important,Open]
<RAOF> Ding.
<RAOF> Although that suggests that this change has already been made in Debian, and all that needs to happen is a newer merge?
<CarlFK> no - that was generic advice about migrating to apache2.4
<CarlFK> but the current patch might as well be implemented using those guidelines
<CarlFK> next item "Do NOT call a2enconf/a2disconf in your maintainer scripts. Use our  apache2-maintscript-helper [4] instead."   Any clue about apache2-maintscript-helper?
<RAOF> Follow the [4] link? It looks like that maintscript helper exists, though.
<RAOF> So, you'd want to call it in the appropriate way (I don't know what the appropriate way is)
<RAOF> Possibly by just including it in your maintscripts.
<RAOF> Oh!
<RAOF> dh_apache2 is your winner.
<CarlFK> gah.. this yak needs more shaving cream....
<CarlFK> http://anonscm.debian.org/hg/collab-maint/zoneminder/file/3b3a2911b31b/distros  debian, fedora, rh, ubuntu1204
<CarlFK> Why are these different?!~!!  rage.  juser@negk:~/temp/zm/zoneminder$ diff debian/ distros/debian/
<CarlFK>  
<CarlFK> more rage: the debian/ dir and such is maintained in the source repo
<CarlFK> but that rage is directed at me for not looking first
<dholbach> good morning
<j_f-f> good morning Daniel
<ice9> when I run pbuilder create --debootstrapopts --variant=buildd  it gives "Distribution is saucy" however I'm on trusty!
<Logan_> ice9: try --distribution=trusty
<Logan_> --distribution trusty, rather
<ice9> Logan_: also I need a guide to build ubuntu package from scratch
<Rhonda> Oo
<Rhonda> apt-get install ubuntu-community-accomplishments, wtf  xD
<Rhonda> ice9: http://packaging.ubuntu.com/html/ might be what you look for
<ice9> thanks Rhonda
<ice9> https://wiki.debian.org/HowToPackageForDebian assumes that the source I want to package is already in the ubuntu repo, but what if I want to build a recent version that is not in the repo yet?
<Logan_> ice9: merge in the new upstream version, and then build
<ice9> Logan_: and if I'm packaging an application for the first time that have never been in the repo bofore?
<ice9> before
<Logan_> are you packaging for Ubuntu or for Debian?
<Logan_> if for Ubuntu, follow this guide: http://packaging.ubuntu.com/html/packaging-new-software.html
#ubuntu-motu 2014-04-23
<Logan_> Rhonda: you run http://packages.ubuntu.com/ right?
<dholbach> good morning
<Rhonda> Logan_: Sortof
<Rhonda> yay.  Filtering out all the mails to rhonda@ubuntu into a seperate folder makes it possible for me to wade through my mails again properly.  :D
<Laney> bah
<Laney> tempest has a borked and unnecessary XB-Python_Version in control
<Laney> breaks dose-debcheck
<sergio-br2> hey hello
<sergio-br2> someone could take a look at Bug #1299686 ? It's has "fix released", but scilab does not work yet
<ubottu> bug 1299686 in scilab (Debian) "scilab libraries are heavily underlinked, causing segfaults on load" [Unknown,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1299686
<sergio-br2> i posted some debug info, i can help with someone help :)
<sergio-br2> * is this the right channel? scilab is from motu, so i think so
<Logan_> sergio-br2: looks like sylvestre replied, saying it isn't the same issue
<jtaylor> the segfault isn't
<jtaylor> that is indeed normal with java
<sergio-br2> so, that debug info i posted, it's a different issue?
<jtaylor> depends, does it run without gdb?
<sergio-br2> no
<jtaylor> hm doesn'T for me, so not fixed
<sergio-br2> no run with or without gdb
<jtaylor> does that work: LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/lib/jvm/java-7-openjdk-amd64/jre/lib/amd64/:/usr/lib/jvm/java-7-openjdk-amd64/jre/lib/amd64/server/ /usr/bin/scilab-bin
<jtaylor> assuming you are running 64 bit
<sergio-br2> i type it in terminal?
<jtaylor> yes
<sergio-br2> ok
<sergio-br2> well, it will take sometime, 10 min to install scilab
<jtaylor> it starts for me
<sergio-br2> ok, let me see
<jtaylor> if one adds: SCI=/usr/share/scilab/
<sergio-br2> nah, it's working, without this tip
<jtaylor> weird
<sergio-br2> scilab is the same version, why now it works? haha
<sergio-br2> ops
<sergio-br2> i run third time here, got core dumped
<jtaylor> wtf why do I hav JAVA_HOME set in my bashrc oO
<sergio-br2> new bug 1311905
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 1311905 could not be found
<sergio-br2> i posted the error there, waiting retrace
<sergio-br2> libEGL warning: DRI2: failed to authenticate
<sergio-br2> is it normal?
<jtaylor> I get it to
<sergio-br2> i can run scilab here, but sometimes it gets core dumped
<sergio-br2> in gdb, it always crashes
<jtaylor> continue once
<sergio-br2> tryied many times, it crashed 2 or 3 times
<jtaylor> do it until you get the real crash :)
<jtaylor> you could also ignore the SIGSEV
<jtaylor> the issue is probably a SIGABRT
<sergio-br2> humm, i don't understand... real crash?
<sergio-br2> humm, ok, the bug report i made has SIGABRT
<sergio-br2> what's this?
<sergio-br2> well, in gdb i get only sigsegv
<jtaylor> sigsegv are generated intentionally be java
<sergio-br2> hum, so that link is it?
<sergio-br2> * comment #14
<sergio-br2> * sylvestre says about it
<sergio-br2> my report bug continues with private status... bug #1311905
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 1311905 could not be found
<jtaylor> you have to make it public yourself
<sergio-br2> no problem?
<sergio-br2> bug #1311905
<ubottu> bug 1311905 in scilab (Ubuntu) "scilab-bin crashed with SIGABRT in __GI_raise()" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1311905
<sergio-br2> the report i got from an automatic apport
<sergio-br2> after, i get info from gdb
<sergio-br2> jtaylor, so, scilab is crashing sometimes in launching, without running under gdb, is it expected?
<jtaylor> seems to be working
<sergio-br2> i'm using unity here, and scilab menu is black, almost like the background
<sergio-br2> * scilab text menu
<sergio-br2> you got the same issue?
<sergio-br2> and there is no global menu for it
#ubuntu-motu 2014-04-24
<dholbach> good morning
<Rhonda> Why aren't the @ubuntu.com mail forwards checked at all for spam?
<Rhonda> I am literally bombarded by several dozens of spam mails daily, which is pretty unbearable.  :/
<Laney> yeah I've trained dspam to deal with it, probably everyone else has too
<xnox> Rhonda: too late probably, but don't publish it and just make people contact you via launchpad's "contact this user"
<xnox> Laney: i just use gmail spam filtering.
<Laney> works if you use gmail
<Rhonda> xnox: I blame Laney for that part.
<Laney> fnar
#ubuntu-motu 2014-04-25
<sergio-br2> hey hello
<sergio-br2> are there any problem with embedded code in packages of universe? I'm trying to send a program to debian repo, but there is a problem with this, related to debian policy
<ScottK> sergio-br2: Policy is the same in Ubuntu.
<dholbach> good morning
<Unit193> So I finally decided to look at the problem rather than hold on to the saucy package.  python-parsedatetime is a bit broken (gives traceback when you use gcalcli), and the way to fix it is either to update to a new version, or apply https://github.com/bear/parsedatetime/commit/51d47dd57a8ac78208aa69015d7e13bdf1bd3574 (and optionally: https://github.com/bear/parsedatetime/commit/692168f4bd336efc07e7575dcde7012eaa1e2075 )
<Unit193> (There were a fair amount of other bug fixes, I believe, so not sure which route you'd prefer.  I'd prefer not to do the SRU paperwork myself, so I don't break something.)
<Unit193> ...And I'm an idiot, that package is actually in main.  Sorry folks, though it'd be handy if someone could help anyway. :P
#ubuntu-motu 2014-04-27
<jincreator> Hi, I'm writing a patch header. Is it okay if length of the line overs 80 characters? In my situation, Origin location url of patch is too long.
<ScottK> jincreator: It's OK.
<jincreator> Thanks, ScottK
<michagogo|cloud> Anyone have an idea why https://launchpad.net/~bitcoin/+archive/bitcoin/+sourcepub/4094734/+listing-archive-extra and https://launchpad.net/~bitcoin/+archive/bitcoin/+sourcepub/4094732/+listing-archive-extra both succeeded for amd64 but failed for i386?
#ubuntu-motu 2015-04-20
<dholbach> good morning
<Fantu> in trusty gvfs have important/critical bug solved upstream but not applied
<Fantu> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=637095
<ubottu> Gnome bug 637095 in metadata "gvfsd-metadata looping causes high CPU usage" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<Fantu> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gvfs/+bug/517021
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 517021 in gvfs (Ubuntu) "gvfsd-metadata causes 100% CPU usage" [Medium,Confirmed]
<Fantu> can someone apply the fix to trusty and precise please?
<Fantu> https://git.gnome.org/browse/gvfs/commit/?id=23341281b7e7f3d92ea1f3d6dffc156a8adb03bc
<rbasak> Fantu: can you follow https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#Procedure please?
<rbasak> Fantu: first it needs fixing in Vivid. Can you confirm if it has already been fixed, or still needs fixing?
<Fantu> rbasak in vivid is already fixed upstream
#ubuntu-motu 2015-04-21
<dholbach> good morning
<Fantu> I found a strange thing... in Trusty gvfs still use version 1.20.1-1ubuntu1 even if 1.20.3-0ubuntu1 is available and with important fixes
<Fantu> I prepared and tested new build with another important/critical fix but launchpad base the diff on older version instead updates one
<Fantu> https://launchpad.net/~fantonifabio/+archive/ubuntu/backports/+files/gvfs_1.20.1-1ubuntu1_1.20.3-0ubuntu1.1.diff.gz
<Fantu> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/203905849/gvfs_1.20.3-0ubuntu1.1_source.changes
<Fantu> ubuntu software updater don't show 1.20.3-0ubuntu1 but aptitude safe-upgrade yes
<Fantu> someone can explain me why? thanks for any reply and sry for my bad english
#ubuntu-motu 2015-04-22
<micahg> Rhonda: feel free to request a backport from trusty to precise to update precise-backports, I can process it once it's tested
<micahg> for wesnoth-1.10
<Rhonda> micahg: For those I'll have to check the font package renaming thing, but yeah.
<Rhonda> Wait.
<Rhonda> micahg: No need, there is the fixed version which went in through SRU?
<Rhonda> Or do you mean 1.12?
<micahg> 1.10.5 is in backports
<micahg> if someone does the run tests, I can backport 1.10.7 from trusty-updates with the patches
<Rhonda> Hmm. Why don't I see it on packages.ubuntu.com/wesnoth-1.10?
<micahg> does that have backports?
<Rhonda> See packages.ubuntu.com/wesnoth-1.12
<Rhonda> Maybe I fumbled and don't display precise-backports â¦  >.>
<Rhonda> I'll check later then.
<micahg> oh, haha, source only, weird
<Rhonda> uh?
<micahg> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wesnoth-1.10/1:1.10.5-1~ubuntu12.04.1
<micahg> I'm at a loss, haven't seen that
<micahg> *before
<Rhonda> Do we have a new codename now?
<micahg> I haven't seen one yet
<Unit193> Nope.
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2015-04-23
<dholbach> good morning
<Unit193> Heya.
* Unit193 changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Vivid released! | Want to get involved with the MOTU? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Sponsor queue: http://bit.ly/fz6AyQ | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs | http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/nbs.html | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs
#ubuntu-motu 2015-04-24
<dholbach> good morning
<Fantu> hi, any news about this with debdiff already posted? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gvfs/+bug/517021
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 517021 in gvfs (Ubuntu) "gvfsd-metadata causes 100% CPU usage" [Medium,Confirmed]
<Laney> Fantu: It's in the right queue (http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/), just a matter of waiting at this point
<upsideout> Hello there I am trying to package up a qt application and and I keep on getting the error "Unknow moduels Qt : quick qml "  Not sure what I might have to install thanks a bunch
<upsideout> NVM got it
#ubuntu-motu 2016-04-25
<karstensrage> micahg, any chance we could get to my backport requests this week?
<micahg> karstensrage: I'm sorry, it's been a busy few weeks for me, I was hoping to see the light at the end of the tunnel soon, but this week isn't likely to be good, there are a few others that process backports, but the team is short handed, I should be able to clear a bit of the backlog next month
<karstensrage> ok :( well could i bug you again maybe in 2 weeks?
<karstensrage> if i knew what was involved i could prep as much as possible so when someone does get to it it will go smoothly
<karstensrage> what im guessing will happen (cause its happened before) is that the context of the backports will be too large to do the normal process so when someone does actually get to it, it will stall
<micahg> karstensrage: only thing I'd suggest is making sure the versions tested are the ones that were released with Xenial (or if there were updates afterwards, the updated versions)
<Unit193> micahg: Have you seen LP 1562358?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1562358 in python-googleapi (Ubuntu) "python-googleapi is incompatible with oauth2client >= 2.x" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1562358
<micahg> that looks vaguely familiar
<micahg> needs an SRU at this point
<Unit193> Indeed.
<karstensrage> micahg, ok ill update the ppa's with the stuff that went into xenial and test ?
<micahg> sure, that sounds good
#ubuntu-motu 2016-04-26
<Unit193> Logan: Sorry to keep bugging you, but think a pasyswhatever it's called can get an update?  Saw something in Upstream's bugtracker about not using "the ubuntu version" as it seems the version packaged doesn't support indicators, but new upstream one does.  (And by "get an update", I mean I packaged it for myself last month.)
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/495464/
#ubuntu-motu 2016-04-27
<Unit193> https://sigma.unit193.net/source/pasystray_0.5.2-0ubuntu1.dsc was the dsc.
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2016-04-28
<Unit193> So I had prepped pasystray (https://sigma.unit193.net/source/pasystray_0.5.2-0ubuntu1.dsc), and now the Debian maintainer has uploaded the new version to mentors, but it doesn't enable support for indicators and last I knew Unity still didn't support tray icons.
#ubuntu-motu 2017-04-24
<tsimonq2> mapreri: listing bugs here> ack, I'll avoid doing that in the future
#ubuntu-motu 2017-04-25
<Unit193> fossfreedom: Re: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/316882511/nautilus-dropbox_2015.10.28-1ubuntu2.debdiff I think it'd be cleaner, now and for the future, if 'if ["Unity","Budgie"] in current_env...'
<fossfreedom> Unit193: thanks for the hint.  Thats not a python syntax I'm aware of - it doesnt seem to work for me
<fossfreedom> better like this? if any(word in 'Unity Budgie' for word in current_env):
<sladen> Unit193: fossfreedom: ha.  It'll end up being like the Browser User Agent strings (report everything), or the ACPI OS string (report "Windows")
<sladen> if current_env in ('Unity', 'Budgie'):
<fossfreedom> sladen: hmm - tried that ... not working either http://paste.ubuntu.com/24455698/
<Unit193> sladen: Yeah it'd be much better to actually check for indicator support than to go by desktop.  And indeed it sort of does.
<sladen> ah, it's a list.  sorry
<sladen> set(['Budgie', 'GNOME']).intersection(('Unity', 'Budgie'))
<sladen> or stick with the solution you've already debugged :)
<fossfreedom> thanks sladen
#ubuntu-motu 2017-04-29
<d33tah> hi! hggdh pointed me here saying I could get help building wine. this fails on zeisty because of deps problems (missing packages): "sudo apt build-dep wine -a i386"
<d33tah> what could I try?
<d33tah> i tried adding arch to dpkg, libxml-simple-perl:i386 just doesn't seem to be there
<sladen> d33tah: please can you file a bug with the exact list of commeands to reproduce it, and the exact error message that you're getting.  A FTBFS is a worry
<d33tah> sladen: it's not as much of a ftbfs as it is my inability to fetch build deps. perhaps maintainers have a way around that
<d33tah> sudo dpkg --add-architecture i386 && sudo apt-get update && sudo apt  build-dep wine -a i386
<sladen> d33tah: (I'm on a train, so can't test/check).  is the perl package an all-arch package?...
<d33tah> sladen: nope, it varies by arch
<d33tah>   Version table:
<d33tah>  *** 2.22-1 500
<sladen> d33tah: http://packages.ubuntu.com/libxml-simple-perl
<d33tah>         500 http://pl.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu zesty/main amd64 Packages
<d33tah>         500 http://pl.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu zesty/main i386 Packages
<d33tah> whoops. weird.
<d33tah> so, yes, it looks like wine's trying to refer to i386 version of a package that's an allarch?
<cjwatson> not everything is cross-buildable
<cjwatson> libxml-simple-perl would likely need to be marked as Multi-Arch: foreign or some such to make progress, but the situation with perl modules has historically been complex and I don't recall whether that's made progress
<cjwatson> you'd really be better off building that in a chroot rather than using the MUCH more complex cross-building machinery as you're currently trying to do
#ubuntu-motu 2018-04-24
<Unit193> tsimonq2: Wait, did the synergy as built against qt5 never get in?
<Unit193> Niiiice... >_<
<tsimonq2> Unit193: wat huh
#ubuntu-motu 2018-04-25
<tsimonq2> handsome_feng: Hi!
<tsimonq2> Is bug 1766622 release-critical?
<ubottu> bug 1766622 in kylin-burner (Ubuntu) "Upgrade kylin-burner to 3.0.5" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1766622
<handsome_feng> tsimonq2: It's not critical, but it would be great if it can been upload today, :)
<tsimonq2> handsome_feng: I ask because they're just spinning up final images now. :)
<tsimonq2> handsome_feng: I will upload it, but please stick around in #ubuntu-release should they need you to explain.
<tsimonq2> handsome_feng: Worst case scenario, it just gets carried over to the next development cycle.
<handsome_feng> tsimonq2: OK, thanks, It doesn't matter, It only fix a minor issue
<tsimonq2> OK :)
#ubuntu-motu 2018-04-27
<Rhonda> wiki outdated. :)
<Rhonda> Hmm, http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/devel/Release still has bionic in it, and it doesn't seem to have the new release directory there yet?  Anyone knows the name?
<Unit193> Rhonda: Not named yet.
#ubuntu-motu 2018-04-28
<Rhonda> Unit193: That makes it hard for me to udate the packages site. :/
#ubuntu-motu 2019-04-23
<Rhonda> So â¦ the next codename is eoan, do I get that right?
<Laney> Rhonda: yup
<Rhonda> Nothing more yet?
<Laney> I didn't hear of an animal yet
<Laney> (but I could be out of the loop)
<Laney> must be a crowded field ;-)
<Unit193> Launchpad and distro-info-data say EANIMAL. ;)
<Rhonda> I looked in the wiki and it's not there neither.  Gladly I don't need it for the update to the package site, but â¦
 * Rhonda . o O ( curiosity kills the elephant )
<Rhonda> Hmm.  I guess I can remove trusty already.
<Rhonda> Oh wait.  No, what's this EOL 2022 â¦
<Rhonda> Ah, the ESM.  I don't think I want/need/should cover that on the packages site.
<Unit193> Nah, that's just Canonical stuff, no community support at all.
#ubuntu-motu 2020-04-20
<ngaio> Hi I made an SRU request for a focal universe package I am the application developer of (but not the packager), bug #1873944. I plan to be here online if any MOTU is planning take a look at it and has any questions.
<ubottu> bug 1873944 in rapid-photo-downloader (Ubuntu) "SRU request for rapid-photo-downloader 0.9.22-0ubuntu1 to fix startup segfault on focal" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1873944
