#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-11-21
<rick_h_> greg-g: heh, look a lot like your own paths?
<snap-l> God, I really, really wish I could install Ubuntu on this XP machine
<rick_h_> heh, having a good windows day?
<snap-l> Apparently the "rescue partition" isn't, and requires a DVD
<rick_h_> oops
<snap-l> which I have
<snap-l> Of course the Eee domes with no DVD drive
<snap-l> but, I managed to get the files off
<snap-l> and realize now that the restore file is a .GHO file
<snap-l> which means it's Norton Ghost, correct?
<snap-l> Anywho, so I have to come up with some form of boot disc for this POS
<snap-l> Frankly, I should just remove the HDD, and put in a 16GB SD card, and see if they notice.
<snap-l> Gah, and Clonezilla is a bit impenetrable for reimaging this from the .gho file
<snap-l> Watch out, the programmers of this rogue software got just a bit smarter. The infection I got was not named [random]. it was named with some jibberish. Still in the same location though.
<snap-l> headdesk
<snap-l> I think they need to rename WIndows to "buttfuck"
<snap-l> because it's too easy to buttfuck the entire system.
<rick_h_> morning party people
<Wolfger> morning
<Wolfger> party
<snap-l> Good morning
<brousch> snap-l: did you buy pygame magazine?
<snap-l> si
<brousch> any good?
<snap-l> Yeah, though it's mostly in the tutorial phase of the magazine
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_w4Xulsjo5I
<brousch> i was thinking of going over it at grpug tonight
<snap-l> Yeah, it would be definitely something to go over
<brousch> i miss python magazine
<snap-l> Yeah, I hope this doesn't hit the same fate.
<brousch> i signed up, got exactly 1 issue, then it died
<snap-l> brousch: I have 10 of 'em.
<snap-l> 2008-06 - 2008-12, 2009-02 and 2009-05
<snap-l> http://www.freep.com/article/20111121/NEWS05/111121001/Police-Royal-Oak-woman-80-killed-in-home
<snap-l> ^- The Grammar Gods do not approve of your headline and lead-in sentence.
<snap-l> Wolfger: New Album: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj4NVYtzlQA
<brousch> wow, someone sent us a google sketchup model that takes a full 5 minutes to open on our super-desktop. it uses 1.2GB of RAM once it's open
<rick_h_> nice!
<brousch> sketchup is apparently single-threaded, so the other 3 cores are idle
<snap-l> That's not surprising
<snap-l> I wish more software was multi-CPU capable
<brousch> this is 3d modeling software
<snap-l> i.e.: LAME and OGG encoding
<brousch> if anything should be multi-core, this should be
<snap-l> Oh, no doubt.
<rick_h_> yea, but it's something they bought and actually is used more in hobby stuff than anything
<rick_h_> all the woodworkers use it for modeling projects
<snap-l> rick_h_: because not everyone needs Autocad. ;)
<brousch> this is a parking desk for some arena
<brousch> deck
<rick_h_> snap-l: oh definitely, but that's why I'm not holding multi-core against it
<snap-l> brousch: Someone is very, very cheap, then. ;)
<brousch> but they included buildings in about 1/2 mile radius
<rick_h_> there's a pay version of sketch-up
<snap-l> Right, but I wouldn't expect someone to design a parking deck with Sketchup
<brousch> we've only gotten 1 other sketchup model in all my years. that was a little park gazebo
<snap-l> brousch: And that's fine
<snap-l> But things that require structural integrity I'd think require some more modeling capability
<snap-l> and virtual stress testing
<snap-l> Actually, that might not be that wild
<snap-l> Wonder if they used Building Maker
<brousch> i suspect they built this in a real program exported to sketchup so people could view it for free
<brousch> cornhuskers basketball arena i think
<brousch> ok, wow, i think they included detailed models of other university buildings, like the football stadium
<brousch> fun, but really pretty useless
<brousch> rick_h_: supposedly this will run under wine, so you can use it too
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, fails
<rick_h_> at least when I last tried
<rick_h_> the gui is a mess
<brousch> it's a simple UI
<brousch> the fail is using ruby as the scripting language instead of python
<rick_h_> I mean the menu doesn't show up, the cursor comes/goes
<snap-l> Yeah, there's no Linux version to speak of
<rick_h_> welcome to life with google
<rick_h_> see picasa :(
<brousch> rick_h_: sketchup8 is running pretty well under wine with 1 registry edit
<brousch> quite fast
<rick_h_> brousch: cool
<rick_h_> it's been a while
<rick_h_> see whole story of my lack of woodworking in nearly 2yrs and all that
<brousch> http://wiki.winehq.org/GoogleSketchup
<rick_h_> yea, it's a pretty cool app, works well for the woodworking side of things
<brousch> all you have to do is give up sleep
<rick_h_> I like the model gallery they've got
<rick_h_> brousch: I knew there was a way!
<brousch> soon you'll be able to delegate some tasks to your spawned process
<rick_h_> I've got some time yet. Currently it's hard for that process to handle it's own functions much less additional ones
<brousch> unfortunately that doesn't give you more free time, it gives you less
<rick_h_> http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/244277/new_kernel_patch_slashes_linuxs_power_appetite.html
<brousch> wow, sketchup under wine opened that monster model
<brousch> slow, but it worked
<rick_h_> nice!
<brousch> actually i think it opened faster, but is slower once it's open
<brousch> that was fun. glad i could bring it back on topic
<rick_h_> snap-l: hey, how did your pdf tests go on the tablets?
<snap-l> Decently
<rick_h_> my wife is now wondering if she should get a tablet to read her medical pdfs on
<rick_h_> I tried it on a verizon floor model, but ugh
<snap-l> The "killer PDF" took a while on the tablet, but didn't crash
<rick_h_> not sure if it's the reader or what, but the screen still doesn't seem big enough to read without scrolling
<rick_h_> ok, so reading it would work out though?
<brousch> small text, but readable
<snap-l> If I were to pick one I'd choose the tablet
<snap-l> you can zoom in on the B&N Tablet with pinch to zoom
<brousch> i end up zooming in to eliminate the white border on all PDFs
<rick_h_> hmm, damn now I really want to get a DX to test out
<snap-l> The color doesn't zoom by default
<rick_h_> ok...thanks. grumble with stupid tech that still isn't "quite right"
<snap-l> Yeah, and there's no tilt sensor, so you can't go landscape
<brousch> i use adobe reader on it
<snap-l> at least not on the color or touch
<brousch> mine has tilt
<snap-l> can't remeber if the tablet did tilt.
<rick_h_> so maybe a tablet would make a good pdf reader for her
<snap-l> brousch: Yeah, but the default reader doesn't handle it
<brousch> rick_h_: does she enjoy tiny fonts as much as you?
<snap-l> rick_h_: It would be the best non-rooting one, yes.
<rick_h_> brousch: no, she's normal
<rick_h_> and blind
<rick_h_> getting more and more tempted to get a DX and "test" it for both of us
<snap-l> rick_h_: Honestly, take a few of them on a micro-SD card ( I have on you can borrow) and try it out
<snap-l> One thing B&N has over the others is they'll let you play with them.
<rick_h_> yea, I figure that there must be a pdf reader in the market that might be better
<rick_h_> the verizon tablets I testsed had a horrible default pdf reader
<snap-l> If someone blew up my Kobo, and I had $250 laying around, I'd have the Tablet
<rick_h_> ok cool, I'll try to get a sample pdf from her and do some more testing
<snap-l> Thing is the Kobo has nice integration with the iPhone
<rick_h_> I'm anti-tablet, I don't want to get one :P
<snap-l> I mean, REALLY good integration
<snap-l> replaced Goodreader for me for PDFs
<snap-l> But I don't trust them enough to even consider the Vox
<rick_h_> woot, got my ep.io beta invite
<rick_h_> yea, sorry man, but kobo is dead
<rick_h_> choose your player, nook or kindle now
<snap-l> Well, their customer service is a fucking joke
<Wolfger> rick_h_: speaking of tablets and PDF's... does the Kindle do a decent job of displaying PDF files?
<rick_h_> Wolfger: so the smaller one can do ok if you put it in landscape
<snap-l> Check getsatisfaction.com/kobo. People are PISSSED.
<rick_h_> but if your pdf is two columns, it sucks because you have to go forward a page, back a page, forward a page to read
<brousch> there's just not enough pixels in 1024x600 to read a pdf easily
<rick_h_> the DX does pdf awesomely, but it's $$$ and such
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, that's kind of what I was wondering. Does someone that cares about pdfs like these 7" tablets for pdfs
<rick_h_> if they do, my wife can probably get by
<brousch> i am reading the python testing book on pdf on mine
<brousch> it's usable
<brousch> i think there is room in the market for a nice pdf reader that compensates for the shortcummings
<brousch> wow, been reading too much banned word list
<brousch> like if i could zoom in then lock the left and right margins at that zoom level, it would be much nicer
<brousch> also if it could save what page i was viewing last
<rick_h_> yea, the lack of whispersync on pdfs is a pita
<Wolfger> :-(
<Wolfger> Glad my O'Reilly ebook is available in .mobi
<rick_h_> yea, I mean it's not killer for me at least
<brousch> there's a epub version of this book, but the formatting is crap
<rick_h_> there are pdfs that would look better than the mobi
<rick_h_> and stuff like printing a long web page to pdf and putting it on the kindle to read later would be nice
<brousch> i wonder how hard it would be to wrap adobe reader with some of these functions
<rick_h_> yea, no idea
<brousch> i'll add it to my list of apps i'll never get to
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> good man, at least you have a list :P
<brousch> by the time i get to it everyone will have 1280x800 tablets and reading letter sized pdf will be fine
<rick_h_> there you go, whenever this damn nexus comes out, HD display will be nice
<rick_h_> once they hit tablets, should be cool
<brousch> the list is kind of depressing. it grows b y 1 idea/week with nothing falling off it
<dzho> but then by that time, your eyes will start going . . .
<rick_h_> brousch: you need an app for that, that just pulls 5 randomly from the list with a nice little add widget
<rick_h_> that way it always seems short/same size
<rick_h_> and you see different ideas each time you load it
<brousch> wonderful, let me add the app idea viewer to my list of app ideas
<rick_h_> it's getting meta in here
<snap-l> Getting?
<rick_h_> true I guess "I wonder if I could write a pdf reader that could wrap and add functions to another pdf reader for my pdf reading"
<snap-l> "Yo, I heard you like PDFs, so I put a PDF in your PDF so you can PDF while you PDF"
<snap-l> Or Adobe's version:
<snap-l> "Yo, I heard you like Javascript, so I put some javascript in your PDF reader so you can Javascript while you PDF"
<brousch> oh crap, what this monstrous xkcd today?
<snap-l> http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/yo-dawg-mac.jpg
<snap-l> http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/yo-dawg-lisp.jpg
<snap-l> Pardon me while I go completely off the rails.
 * ColonelPanic001 fetches the crazy train
<brousch> FTR amazon video on demand does not play well on the nook color
<brousch> netflix is OK, but not great
<brousch> rick_h_: here's a page from art of community at full page width zoom on the nook color http://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/aoc-pg2-full-page.png
<brousch> and then one zoomed to remove the margins, which is how i use it http://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/aoc-pg2-no-margins.png
<rick_h_> cool
<snap-l> Not sure how many board gamers are in here, but JoDee and I picked up Ascending Empires.
<snap-l> http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/37919/ascending-empires
<snap-l> It's a pretty solid little game
<snap-l> Kind of like a cross between Civ and Galcon
<brousch> i guess those are most useful if you can view them on something with the same pixel density as the nook color
<brousch> 169PPI
<brousch> it looks like the nook tablet and kindle fire have the same size and resolution as the nook color
<rick_h_> woot, project arrived. Time to test it out before CHC
<snap-l> Which project is this? :)
<rick_h_> oops, projector
<rick_h_> https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Otv87FjTFOI/TsqQv-WE50I/AAAAAAAAA5s/EN8VpUEzRmw/s144/IMG_20111121_122043.jpg
<rick_h_> ignore the bowl of soup there nad such
<snap-l> niiiiice.
<rick_h_> well, I'm still going back and forth
<rick_h_> it's a cheaper one, priced for brightness and portablility
<rick_h_> but no battery, and no keystone'ing
<rick_h_> but came with the stand
<rick_h_> but the one I wanted next was $140 ish more, no stand
<rick_h_> has a bit more brightness than the one Mat brought to CHC that one time
<rick_h_> but loaded up a video and seems like it'll do the job as long as I can get it positioned right
<snap-l> http://dashes.com/anil/2011/11/facebook-is-gaslighting-the-web.html <- Wow
<snap-l> That wasthe only use-case for Facebook when I used it (piping RSS from my blog to Facebook)
<Wolfger> snap-l: ++ on the yo-dawg jpegs.
<snap-l> Wolfger: I'm surprised you can see them. ;)
<Wolfger> Me too.
<Wolfger> Article about Facebook gaslighting the web: can't see.
<snap-l> Wolfger: Lovely. ;)
<rick_h_> man I hate stupid surveys...THINK people
<snap-l> rick_h_: Which survey?
<rick_h_> the stupid sound thing
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> I thought it was a pretty reasonablesurvey
<snap-l> but I also think they're going to find out that people still use some fo the functionality.
<rick_h_>  the first question says "Hey, you ever used this..."
<rick_h_> ok cool
<rick_h_> second question "If you've used it, please let us know how important it is"
<rick_h_> "oh...I've never used it, so I'll skip it...hmm it's required...where's the N/A option then...wtf!!!!"
<greg-g> yay!!!!!
<greg-g> "out for delivery" http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003ZYF3LO
<greg-g> (I got it for $100 less than that current price, there was a $100 instant rebate good through this sat.)
<snap-l> greg-g: Didn't you get the memo? Just use an iPhone. ;)
<greg-g> :P
<rick_h_> greg-g: oooh, nice!
<rick_h_> I miss the SLR
<rick_h_> heh, oops, so I got hit by monday
<rick_h_> there are three questions there
<greg-g> yeah, going to be having some fun with it this week
<rick_h_> not 2
<rick_h_> and the 3rd is required
<rick_h_> greg-g: http://www.lensrentals.com/ is fun for that stuff
<rick_h_> I did my cousin's wedding by renting a hotshoe flash and some nice lenses...so much fun
<rick_h_> and good for testing a lense before you drop $$ on it
<greg-g> oh nice!
<snap-l> http://jderose.blogspot.com/2011/11/note-on-ubuntu-one-dropping-couchdb.html
<rick_h_> yea, that's interesting
<rick_h_> though not suprising, if they're going to compete with drobox, going to have to get past couch
<snap-l> Well, none of this stuff really worked well
<snap-l> contacts sync was down more often than not
<snap-l> Notes was somewhat interesting
<snap-l> I don't think playlists ever got off theground
<snap-l> Because we are no longer going to pursue CouchDB, we will
<snap-l> no longer be developing desktopcouch; in fact, if anybody wants to take
<snap-l> over, we'll be happy to work with you to make that official. For the
<snap-l> upcoming 12.04 the Ubuntu One packages will not depend on desktopcouch
<snap-l> nor couchdb in any way, and we'd recommend the distribution seriously
<snap-l> consider whether they want to continue having the package in main,
<snap-l> especially if no maintainer shows up.
<rick_h_> ouch, I didn't realize they had the alternative far enough along to make the switch
<snap-l> Interesting that they finally got the shit mostly stable, so now they can abandon it in peace. ;)
<snap-l> rick_h_: It'll be another painful transition
<snap-l> We're calling it U1DB
<snap-l> for now, until it comes of age. If you're interested and techincally
<snap-l> inclined you can follow our progress on lp:u1db; unfortunately our
<snap-l> timing and resources are such that we can only promise the reference
<snap-l> python implementation will be ready in time for 12.04, and thus 12.04
<snap-l> will ship without Ubuntu One having a solid story around synchronizing
<snap-l> arbitrary structured data.
<snap-l> I believe we have a candidate for 12.04's pain point.
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> woot! python
<rick_h_> hmm, backends has memory and sqlite? This doesn't make me feel warm/fuzzy
<snap-l> Everything will be sqlite in the near future
<rick_h_> but things can't talk to sqlite at the same time
<snap-l> That'll lead to the desktop postgresql cloud servers
<snap-l> every Ubuntu desktop will have access to 1 postgresql instance in the cloud
<brousch> kewl
<rick_h_> offline?
<brousch> what's offline?
<rick_h_> mobile?
<brousch> it's in the cloud, d00d
<snap-l> rick_h_: If you're offline, it's because you picked the wrong horse for a carrier.
<brousch> is couchdb bad?
<rick_h_> it's not ubu-scale
<snap-l> No, it's jut slow
<rick_h_> especially with files and crap
<brousch> i have looked at it even less than mongo, which i've looked at basically not at all
<rick_h_> meh, forget mongo, check out couch. It's more useful for most of us
<snap-l> Mongo is web-scale
<rick_h_> but dropbox isn't sitting on top of that stuff
<brousch> dropbox is the bizomb
<rick_h_> mongo is more annoying than a party of RoR developers at a RoR version release all trying to run simultaneous gem update commands
<snap-l> Mongo is annoying because it's the nitro-burning funny car of databases
<brousch> sourceforge uses it
<snap-l> brousch: Where do you think I learned to dislike Mongo
<snap-l> Thing is, Mongo encourges you to do stupid things with your data, like nitro-burning funny cars encourage you to do stupid things with your car
<brousch> yeah, i'm bad enough with a sql database, i don't need all that extra freedom
<brousch> and i'm not saying that sarcastically
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyvodTwy2Ek <- MongoDB
<Wolfger> man you people are chatty today. Like it's a holiday-shortened week or something....
<brousch> snap-l: that video blew out my eardrums
<brousch> i'll send you the bill for a hearing aid
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2fD-hYVLxE
<snap-l> brousch: I listened to it with the sound off. ;)
<greg-g> Wolfger: thank god it is
<brousch> i win!
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mh7VHcuaPCg
<brousch> hey, awesome, you can now get unlimited dropbox storage for only $800/yr https://www.dropbox.com/teams/pricing
<rick_h_> my backups problems are solved! amen!
<brousch> i'm moving my backups to crashplan, cutting back on my dropbox
<snap-l> $800 a year?
<snap-l> I'm at $120 a year in monthly installments.
<snap-l> For $800 a year, I could buy a few drives and try to house them offsite.
<brousch> yeah, it is silly
<brousch> ubuntuone has better pricing
<brousch> too bad it's not reliable
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-11-22
<rick_h_> morning party people
<snap-l> Ugh, morning colds are not fun
<snap-l> trying to clear out the accumulated guck from overnight
<rick_h_> heh, same here
<rick_h_> wife and I are so attractive these last few mornings
<snap-l> Yeah, Jodee's also got the galloping crud
<snap-l> Wondering if a humidifier might help
<rick_h_> sad day, removed #pyramid and #sqlalchemy from my irc idling
<snap-l> aw
<rick_h_> yea, we've had ours running and helps for sure
<rick_h_> but hey, three bug fixes landed and on the live LP site!
<snap-l> which one did you pick up?
<snap-l> (humidifier)
<rick_h_> we've got two, I really like the sonic one we got for Michael
<rick_h_> sec
<rick_h_> was a woot deal last year, can't recall the name
<rick_h_> http://www.amazon.com/Venta-Sonic-VS205-Ultrasonic-Humidifier/dp/B001E43SMS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1321965652&sr=8-1
<rick_h_> if you like quiet, this is the ticket
<rick_h_> wife and I use this one: http://www.amazon.com/Honeywell-QuietCare-Cool-Moisture-Humidifier-3-Gallon/dp/B0002UXDRA/ref=sr_1_17?s=home-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1321965755&sr=1-17
<rick_h_> home depot special
<rick_h_> works, but it loud and I don't like the filter setup much
<snap-l> Yeah, lound is not an option
<snap-l> Cool. Thanks!
<rick_h_> np, good luck
<Wolfger> morning
<rick_h_> party
<Wolfger> woot
<Wolfger> Indeed, I am the only person from my group that is at the plant today. It's a good start to having a party
<rick_h_> lol, holiday week, gotta love it
<Wolfger> unfortunately, I'm also dealing with multiple problems :-p
<rick_h_> man, how did I live without imapfilter for a while
<brousch> rick_h_: by using a sane email client?
<rick_h_> lol, no by not getting much email I think
<rick_h_> but good try!
<brousch> new guy came to grpug last night. he was using arch with DWM
<brousch> his dad uses arch with awesome
<rick_h_> hah!
<rick_h_> <32
<rick_h_> err <3
<brousch> i'll take gnome shell, thanks
<rick_h_> you can have it
<rick_h_> though I must admit it's the one I've not tried yet
<Wolfger> So I've got to ask... what makes the deficit "super-committee" super? So far as I can tell, it's just a committee...
<Wolfger> is it just an ego thing, or are there actual sub-committees that nobody ever talks about?
<brousch> it is composed of super legislators
<brousch> they get a cape and tight-fitting clothes with the first letter of their name on their chest
<snap-l> The deficit supercommittee has John Kerry on it
<snap-l> And John Kerry is thuper, thanks for athking.
<snap-l> Frankly, I'd have been surprised if the Suer Committee could have agreed on pizza toppings
<snap-l> About the only thing this congress can agree upon is that Pizza itself is a vegetable
<snap-l> which, by extension, means I know what I'm planting this spring.
<rick_h_> jcastro: so no more upstream schmoozing? congrats! :)
<rick_h_> poor jcastro has too much sysadmin in his blood yet
<rick_h_> http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/11/22/canonical-community-team-12-04-plans/
<snap-l> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2011-November/003486.html
<rick_h_> ouch, unfortunately this guy is right a little bit
<rick_h_> it definitely needs a deprecated phase
<rick_h_> problem is the LTS timing
<rick_h_> horrible time for the move and an LTS to collide
<snap-l> Yeah, I can't fault him for being pissed
<snap-l> the time to have worked on this was after 10.04, not just before 12.04
<snap-l> If they could have even made it a drop-in couchdb replacement, I'd have been OK with that as well
<rick_h_> meh, that's a bit hard
<snap-l> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2011-November/003487.html
<snap-l> And here's where the fire gets pissed out with gasoline.
 * rick_h_ is afraid to open that
<snap-l> Ok, it's not quite as bad as that
<snap-l> but the assertion that it's a small minority of developers stings a bit
<snap-l> because it send the message that you can't rely on anything that Canonical pushes on the desktop without getting burned.
<brousch> it's just the ones that drank most heavily the ubuntuone koolaid, right?
<snap-l> brousch: Matter of perspective
<snap-l> I think it's more fair to say that it's folks who believed that Ubuntu One was a baked product.
<snap-l> and they could start developing with it as a third party.
<snap-l> Gets back to the whole API discussion
<brousch> did they actually try using it ;)
<snap-l> Well, this developer appears to have invested int he couchDB syncing of Ubuntu One.
<rick_h_> yea, rule #1 do everything you can to wrap the @#$#@ out of things you use and build your API yourself
<rick_h_> then you can try to swap out the backend with fewer issues hopefully
<snap-l> Well, it depends on what this new U1DB will be
<snap-l> 6 months to make a production-ready scalable database does not give me hope
<snap-l> also wonder what it'll do for backward compatibility.
<brousch> does U1 work on other distros yet?
<snap-l> i.e.: does U1 break for anything not 12.04?
<rick_h_> yea, think they got it on windows
<snap-l> Windows
<rick_h_> and they're hiring devs to work on other platforms
<brousch> the only windows users who will use it are those also running ubuntu
<snap-l> If they get a decent U1 on iPhone, I might switch back some functionality to it.
<snap-l> brousch: well, no shit
<brousch> i just think it's foolish to write a program for linux that works on one distro
<snap-l> You have no use for U1 without having Ubuntu in the mix
<snap-l> brousch: so port it to Linux Mint. ;)
<snap-l> since that's the #1 distro out there.
<snap-l> (note: I put about as much faith in #1 distro rankings that I put in to my politicians to actualy do useful and non-harmful work)
<brousch> unity has the same issue. why would you write something for unity when it won't work on any other distro?
<snap-l> perceived leadership role?
<snap-l> Why do people write for Windows?
<snap-l> marketshare
<brousch> windows is still like 90% of all computers. linux is 2%, ubuntu is half of that 1%?
<Wolfger> snap-l: when you write for Windows, it works on every Windows distribution of equal or greater version, right? ;-)
<rick_h_> no, linux is 2% - servers are 80% of that 2% and ubuntu is 50% of that
<brousch> but ubuntu servers don't have unity
<rick_h_> right, which is why I took them out
<brousch> do they even have ubuntu1?
<snap-l> brousch: I think you can add it, but not 100% sure
<rick_h_> anyway, it's not many
<brousch> to me, it seems very short-sighted to program for such a narrow market
<snap-l> I don't think they even calculate server marketshare, do they?
<rick_h_> meh, it's a niche we all live in
<snap-l> I thought the 1.x% marketshare was desktops
<rick_h_> snap-l: probably not
<snap-l> WE ARE THE 1%!
<snap-l> (sorry)
<Wolfger> brousch: does the size of the market matter when you're coding FOSS for free?
<rick_h_> we are the <1%!
<brousch> make your app work with dropbox, now you have a much larger, well established user base
<rick_h_> yea, but in theory U1 will give you better apis for that stuff
<rick_h_> on dropbox just means you have files and do file sync
<brousch> then add in ubuntu1 support if you're an ubuntu fanboy
<snap-l> u1 was also for syncing to multiple ubuntu desktops
<snap-l> gwibber was supposed to sync your credentials across multiple machines
<snap-l> and sync your read messages
<snap-l> (or at least if it didn't, it would have been nice)
<snap-l> big issue is that CouchDB has scaling problems
<snap-l> And I'm SUUUUURE that U1DB won't have any problems at all.
<brousch> they'll go with oracle
<snap-l> brousch: mongodb
<snap-l> OK, time to do something useful.
<snap-l> laterness.
<brousch> rehashing the same old arguments on the internet isn't useful?!
<Wolfger> heh
<ColonelPanic001> lol seatbelts
<brousch> helmets!
<Wolfger> noooooooooooo
<snap-l> If I could get paidfor bitching on the Internet, I'd be a millionaire.
 * snap-l goes off to cash in his internet $$
<Wolfger> $1,000,000,000,000 Internet Dollars -> $0.02 USD
<brousch> digikam is generating signatures for each of my 68,000 photos so it can check for duplicates
<rick_h_> brousch: see you next week :P
<brousch> 2% in 10mins
<brousch> 8 hours seems reasonable
<Wolfger> brousch: that's quite the adult-picture collection you have there...
 * Wolfger nods approvingly
<brousch> heh
<brousch> i suspect there are really only 8000 unique photos. the rest are duplicates, thumbnails, and internet cache that ended up in the same pile when i switched from linux->osx->linux->osx->linux
<Wolfger> Typing gloves? 0_o   http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/121010/comfortable-typing-gloves
<brousch> i could've used them before we rebuilt the front of the building here
<brousch> cold days my fingers would hurt
<Milyardo> In my day we typed in the snow, on stone keyboards, and liked it.
<rick_h_>  lol, that's awesome
<brousch> heh, looking at ssh servers for android and i see a negative review from aaron topance
<rick_h_> I've heard of that guy...
<rick_h_> oh right, interviewed him at #OLF and he's on lococast
<Wolfger> and somehow I've been following him on Twitter/Identica forever. I think probably due to work with Bug Squad.
<brousch> just thought it was funny to see a name i recognized in the android market app reviews
<Wolfger> Seems to me that if there's USB fans for hot weather, there should be USB heaters for cold weather. Not finding them, though... Probably too much juice
<rick_h_> Wolfger: fire hazard
<rick_h_> lol
<brousch> my macbook pro used to keep my fingers toasty during the winter
<Wolfger> then again, most laptops, just stick your fingers near the cooling fan for a little bit, they'll warm right up
<rick_h_> there you go
<rick_h_> use the resources at hand
<Wolfger> brousch: beat me to it :-p
<rick_h_> "it's chilly in here...time to upgrade! Dual hex-core ftw!"
<Milyardo> I think GPUs generally generate more than than the CPU. Turning on Crysis should bring the tropical weather to you.
 * Wolfger looks for a research paper entitled Effect of the Computer Age on Global Climate
<Wolfger> "suddenly, developed countries are becoming warmer while undeveloped countries experience no increase in yearly average temperature"
<Wolfger> ah, who am I kidding? It's global warming. Thanks, Pentium.
<snap-l> Wolfger: Heh, that's why I have a desktop machine on the floor
<snap-l> makes for a nice space-heater.
<snap-l> CPU Temperature:  +114.8Â°F  (high = +149.0Â°F, crit = +203.0Â°F)
<snap-l> MB Temperature:   +134.6Â°F  (high = +113.0Â°F, crit = +203.0Â°F)
<snap-l> I wish there was a way to put a larger fan in this computer
<rick_h_> snap-l: heh, I've got a bandsaw
<rick_h_> drill a hole inthe side of the case, insert blade, cut circle
<rick_h_> mount any size fan you want
<snap-l> No
<snap-l> nonononono
<snap-l> Im not doing that
<brousch> make it so
<rick_h_> well fine then, don't let me break out the sharp tools
<brousch> add some bright blue LEDs while you're at it
<rick_h_> woot!
<snap-l> I have enough blue LEDs on this machine, thank you.
<snap-l> http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0357935 <- Oh, I totally need this case.
<rick_h_> not enough fans
<rick_h_> can we cut that one open?
<snap-l> shoo
<snap-l> begone, mr driller
<rick_h_> lol
<snap-l> http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0365241 < Even better
<snap-l> Is that a cupholder on the top?
<snap-l> Because if it is, SOLD!
<snap-l> or maybe it's a hot plate.
<Milyardo> Fuck the hotplate, it has a microwave in the back
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> http://deadspin.com/5861520/that-list-of-words-you-cant-text-in-pakistan-is-actually-the-list-of-things-you-cant-put-on-nfl-jerseys
<brousch> heh
<rick_h_> http://www.getharvest.com/blog/2011/11/behind-the-scenes-harvest-visits-3-nyc-design-firms/
<rick_h_> I love the board at the bottom
<rick_h_> I want to do a startup just to get one of those going
<brousch> the electronic or sticky note board?
<rick_h_> the giant monitor
<rick_h_> with the android looking widget on it
<Wolfger> snap-l: those cases are full of win, but those case prices are not. I've bought an entire desktop PC for the price of that second case.
<snap-l> http://www.getharvest.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Barrel-Team4.jpg <- Looks like a classroom lab more than an office
<snap-l> Wolfger: Yeah, and I'm not about to get rid of my lian li
<snap-l> Just interesting to see case designs
<snap-l>  Some of these cases just look like shit
<snap-l> http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0334041
<Wolfger> $37 shit-looking case will always win over $250 totally-awesome case in my book
<Wolfger> checkbook, that is
<snap-l> I love how the new nome-de-plume of expensive cases is "Gaming Case"
<snap-l> http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0355600 <- Hey, they have it in black, too!
<Wolfger> jcastro: rick_h_: and any other Canonical dudes... Shouldn't a package install config files and then remove them all when purged from the system? It seems to me that would be the user-friendly thing to do... http://askubuntu.com/questions/81761/ubuntu-how-full-remove-package
<snap-l> http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0345159 <- Hm, the box photo looks VERY familiar
<rick_h_> Wolfger: it depends
<snap-l> Wolfger: I found your next case
<snap-l> http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0317092
<jcastro> Wolfger: the package manager, never, ever touches your files in ~
<jcastro> it's Debian policy
<snap-l> Please for the love of all that is holy do NOT ever remove things from my home directory.
<snap-l> recommend that I purge them myself if they're incompatible
<Wolfger> Well... something. Uninstalling software and leaving cruft behind just seems so.... Microsoft. :-p
<rick_h_> Wolfger: imagine you keep your dotfiles in git
<snap-l> Wolfger: config files are different
<rick_h_> you uninstall the app, and then the files get removed from your git repo on next commit
<rick_h_> you probably don't want that
<snap-l> Wolfger: Also, personal config files are different than system-wide config
<snap-l>  /etc files are fair game
<snap-l> /home/[user]/ files are not
 * Wolfger mulls the problem over some more
<jcastro> I like that it doesn't touch them
<jcastro> it lets me move them around from system to system
<snap-l> http://www.thinkgeek.com/books/nonfiction/eb36/?cpg=178P&link
<jcastro> though, it can be problematic in the case of this guy you linked
<jcastro> I think it's just a symptom of the guy's problem
<jcastro> which appears to be "I couldn't get it to work so I reinstalled it."
<Wolfger> I've been bit before by the "I hosed something, so I want a fresh install, OMG why isn't it completely uninstalling" thing before, so I feel for this guy. And since Ubuntu is pretty clearly after the non-geek, non-CLI crowd, I think it's a real issue.
<snap-l> First problem: Installing eclipse via apt
<Wolfger> LOL
<Wolfger> Maybe a "it looks like you have a previous configuration, would you like to use that?" prompt... but again, system wide install, individual configs... Not seeing a clean solution there. Especially in cases where the machine actually *is* a multi-user system
<Wolfger> :-p
<snap-l> Wolfger: I'd assume if someone is using Eclipse, they'd not be allergic to configuration files
<Wolfger> well, there is that...
<snap-l> and if they are, I'd encourage them to not develop anything that I will either want to use, or need to use. ;)
<Wolfger> heh
<snap-l> i.e.: If you're developing my life-saving heart monitor, and can't figure out config files, please let me die, because you're going to end up killing me anyway.
<Wolfger> please don't make me literally LOL at work. People know I'm not working now...
<snap-l> chuckle-fucks. ;)
 * snap-l tries harder to make Wolfger laugh at work.
<snap-l> http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/121115/career-path-for-principal-developer-evangelist <- I swear, sometimes I wish there was a way to punch someone in the neck over the Internet
<brousch> i've never touched a config file for eclipse. it's all gui
<Wolfger> snap-l: wtf?
<Wolfger> also, haven't we both discussed not ever using p.se?
<Wolfger> :-D
<brousch> craigm has a good reply
<Wolfger> Right now I am lost in the XKCD money chart http://xkcd.com/980/huge/#x=-1822&y=-7300&z=5 and annoyed that he forgot the green dress (in the calculation of the cost of "If I Had a Million Dollars")
<brousch> snap-l: maybe you should learn restraint from him
<snap-l> hah, got closed just after I posted that
<Wolfger> WTF? Minecraft sold over $56M?
<snap-l> That doesn't surprise me
<snap-l> There's money in games if you can find it.
<Wolfger> Lifetime cost of avoiding changing your oil by abandoning your car and buying a new one every 5,000 miles.... 3.25M
<Wolfger> That sounds like a decent use of lottery winnings to me :-)
<Wolfger> although I'd give the old cars as gifts...
<snap-l> http://www.meijer.com/s/m-audio-49-key-studio-synthesizer/_/R-205095
<brousch> the royal wedding costed $80,000,000?!
<snap-l> Yep
<greg-g> jcastro: "I have moved things around a little when it comes to how we are growing our cloud community. Jorge Castro is now taking on the growth of the Ubuntu Cloud community" Things make much more sense now!
<snap-l> Gotta make sure the royal progeny are kept in the lifestyle for which they have been accustomed
<jcastro> heh
<snap-l> I always knew that jcastro wanted to move to the cloud
<greg-g> he's the clouds biggest fanboi
<jcastro> I am just glad I am on server stuff. :)
<rick_h_> sysadmin at heart
<rick_h_> he can't get rid of it
<snap-l> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9058804/jorge_calrissian.jpg <- new leader of Cloud City
<Wolfger> ROFL
<greg-g> oh em ge
<Wolfger> that is freaking hilarious. Did you just GIMP that up?
<snap-l> yep
<brousch> snap-l++
<Wolfger> publish to Ubuntu Planet
<Wolfger> OK, Humble Bundle is just trying to steal my money now. Both Uplink and Darwinia are quite old. :-p
<snap-l> I don't have membership yet.
<rick_h_> man, stupid holiday. It should not take 11 days to deliver a 5 day package
<snap-l> I have something coming from GR that has taken over a week
<rick_h_> UPS?
<snap-l> I think it's via media rate, but still that's damn slow.
<rick_h_> or USPS?
<snap-l> USPS
<rick_h_> yea, I take whatever I think it'll take and double it for them
<snap-l> UPS is a bunch of vindictive assholes, though
<snap-l> they'll sit on something to make sure it's 3 day, even if it shows up beforehand
<rick_h_> when I hit buy I thought "sure, 3-5 days will be fine" that was on the 17th
<rick_h_> eta is 28th
<rick_h_> heh, lovely
<greg-g> my new camera went out for delivery yesterday at 8am and again today at 8am, those jerks
<greg-g> all last night I was checking the front porch for the box
<rick_h_> boooo
<greg-g> oh, but the best part is whe nI got home, I asked carrie if it was here, she asked "it what?", I'm like "the camera!" ... "oh, its downstairs in our room" ..... I go to the room....
<greg-g> open the box, and its....
<greg-g> DIAPERS
<greg-g> from my mom
<greg-g> biggest let down ever
<brousch> snap-l: what'd you order from GR?
<_stink_> yay diapers!
<greg-g> (for those in the know, they were actually diaper liners, but whatever, still not a DSLR)
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> I've had to overnight diapers before
<rick_h_> felt silly with the courier coming up the driveway in the van to hand me ... diapers
<brousch> d00d, go to the store
<rick_h_> no, they don't carry the big cost effective boxes
<rick_h_> and since I pay prime, $3 to overnight
<rick_h_> or is it $4
<greg-g> were they still cost effective with overnight?
<greg-g> ah, yeah, nice
<rick_h_> and I don't have to pack up the baby into the car seat
<rick_h_> that's worth $4 right there
<Wolfger> heh
<brousch> oh man, it's so nice once they can climb into the seat themselves
<snap-l> Is multiwinia Linux?
<brousch> and i got the minivan so i don't whack my head every time
<snap-l> brousch: I bought a book via Amazon
<snap-l> was from the GR goodwill
<brousch> heh
<Wolfger> OK, the vi/vim book casually mentions I can :set nu to see line numbers, but doesn't say how to make them go away (other than :q and reopen)
<brousch> i thought maybe some west side memorabilia
<Blazeix> Wolfger: set nonu
<rick_h_> Wolfger: most things you can set have xxx and noxxx options
<brousch> xxx please
<Wolfger> LOL
<Wolfger> :set xxx  (dammit rick_h_ it's not working! Where's the naughty stuff?)
<snap-l> and speaking of which, the book arrived
<brousch> wtf is juju?
<Wolfger> It's amazing how little I knew about vi and yet have been "using it" for years.
<rick_h_> Wolfger: lol, I still no nothing about vim
<Blazeix> yeah, i'm still discovering stuff all the time. another neat line numbering thing is 'set rnu'
<Blazeix> for relative line numbering
<Wolfger> relative?
<rick_h_> yea, I tried that once
<rick_h_> but I can't get used to it
<Wolfger> rick_h_: to give you an idea, I had no idea about a (append) c (change) or r (replace)
<rick_h_> OMG!
<Wolfger> I've been getting by with i and s
<rick_h_> ci" cw I use a ton
<Wolfger> never mind hand shit like cb
<Wolfger> s/hand/handy/
<rick_h_> yea, I don't do much backwards
<rick_h_> F is about it
<rick_h_> hard for me for some reason
<Wolfger> yeah, if I wanted to change a word I either did dwi or (for short words) xxxs
<Wolfger> sad
<brousch> ah ha, i figured out where all of my pictures came from. apparently iphoto's facial recognition finds all of the pictures of faces in all of your pictures and makes a little thumbnail of the face
<brousch> so i have a thumbnail photo of every face from every one of my photos
<_stink_> creepy
<brousch> omg the world is ending soon http://www.microsoft.com/download/en/details.aspx?id=28160
<jjesse> yay?
<snap-l>  /url 1
<snap-l> Hey, MS has been known to put out things for Linux from time to time
<snap-l> Generally when there's a corporate agenda behind it, but still...
<snap-l> Anybody here remember Dragon's Lair? :)
 * snap-l finally installed Daphne, and has been reliving some childhood
<snap-l> greg-g: Man, you'd think the -NC was like a fucking dagger run across the fingers for some people
<snap-l> http://identi.ca/conversation/85516120
<greg-g> well, there is discussion of whether or not we should drop it as an option in the 4.0 version of the licenses
<snap-l> I think that's a mistake
<snap-l> (to drop it)
<greg-g> hah, you're having a convo with a good buddy, cwebber
<snap-l> Yeah, he's a reasonable fellow
<greg-g> he's good, uber free software guy too
<snap-l> Thing is, I wonder if folks like NIN or Eclipse Phase, or any number of the folks that I play on the show would bother with CC if the NC clause wasn't there.
<snap-l> since there's not that many that don't put it there.
<greg-g> I think the issue is hard to know, exactly, now given that the CC licenses currently provide -NC clauses. If we "take them away" then of course a subset will get mad
<greg-g> but we can never know if adoption would have been different without them, no matter what someone says along the lines of "I wouldn't have used CC if it weren't for NC"
<snap-l> I think it's a vocal minority that is having the whining fit
<_stink_> what's the thumbnail rationale behind dropping -NC?
<greg-g> 1. it isn't clear what it actually means
<greg-g> 2. it is basically the same as Fair Use anyways (kinda)
<greg-g> 2a. which begs the question: is it worth it?
<snap-l> 2. No, it's not the same
<_stink_> yeah, i'm not sure i get 2.
<snap-l> Fair use limits me to less than 20 seconds
<greg-g> there will be a (whole hell of a) lot more coming next week when we start the process of 4.0 versioning
<greg-g> snap-l: you made that up
<_stink_> tune in next week!
<greg-g> there is no number of seconds
<greg-g> see: sampling in music
<greg-g> ONE NOTE requires a license
<greg-g> fair use can include a whole work
 * greg-g gets a guide...
<snap-l> greg-g: So, if I sing "Chestnuts", I need a license?
<greg-g> no no, not singing, reusing
<greg-g> which is the important part of cc licensed works,being able to reuse the work
<snap-l> and if so, then the CC is that license. :)
 * greg-g didn't follow that "and if so.."
<snap-l> ONE NOTE requires a license... and if so...
<greg-g> oh, I was responding to your statement of fair use is < 20 seconds
<rick_h_> phew, first real code submitting for merge proposal. Let the beating up of the new guy begin!
<rick_h_> https://code.launchpad.net/~rharding/launchpad/bugfix_891735/+merge/83068 Blazeix what I ended up doing for the resizing stuff
<snap-l> I see the CC -NC as permission to reuse the work as long as I don't charge for it
<greg-g> unless it is a fair use, of course (which can include full copying with sale, depending on the other 2 factors) (just tring to complicate matters here :) )
<_stink_> ok, i see.
<snap-l> If I decide to do a Daft Punk podcast, I'm sure someone will get rather upset
<_stink_> but isn't this also a problem with other CC licenses?  like SA can be ignored if fair use
<greg-g> right, because a podcast isn't transformative
<snap-l> Fair Use or no
<greg-g> _stink_: exactly, fair use trumps all. Or, another more accurate way to think about it is: cc licenses only apply when copyright restrictions do, thus, if you use would have been a fair use under All Rights Reserved, it is a fair use under Cc licensed stuff
<snap-l> Put another way, if I'm building up something from a body of work, I'm using CC because I don't want to have to ask everyone for permission, fair use or no
<snap-l> because frankly, I don't like being in courtrooms
<_stink_> greg-g: so i'd make the point that -NC is not uniquely a problem.
<greg-g> well, right, so, kinda
<snap-l> I think they just need to make it more clear that there can be exceptions to the NC clause (though I'm not sure how you make "YOU CAN GET A WAIVER" more clear.
<greg-g> it isn't unique in that fair use always trumps, but, if what you can do with an NC licensed work is basically the same set of things you can do under fair use, then whats the point?
<_stink_> i don't understand how commercial use and fair use are analogous.
<snap-l> Because it's an explicit license, and not subject to the erosion of fair use? :)
<greg-g> (but but, there are obviously uses that are not fair uses that you can exercise under CC BY NC)
<_stink_> right.
<snap-l> Again, it's a contract that I enter in with the rest of the world to say "this is what I like, and this is what will really piss me off"
 * greg-g nods
<snap-l> Also, fair use is American, correct?
<snap-l> (i.e.: not everywhere respects fair use)
<_stink_> from my little perch i think -NC *is* useful.  i want my work to be available for derivative works via CC but not by default in cases where fair use does not apply and someone wants to sell commercially.
<greg-g> snap-l: exactly
<_stink_> greg-g: fwiw if internal discussions care about the peanut gallery.
<greg-g> _stink_: oh, this is going to be a totally public/open process (the versioning to 4.0)
<_stink_> greg-g: ofc, silly me :)
<greg-g> the cc-community and cc-licenses mailing lists will be crazy
<snap-l> I guess I'm not particularly clear on what the problems were with 3.0. :)
<greg-g> there are a few
<snap-l> COnsidering there's one site out there that still uses Sampling Plus... :)
<greg-g> yeah, that lame license ;)
<greg-g> paroneayea: you just missed:
<greg-g> 15:31 <    snap-l> COnsidering there's one site out there that still uses Sampling Plus... :)
<greg-g> 15:32 <    greg-g> yeah, that lame license ;)
<paroneayea> rumors on the internets that there's a CC/NC/fair use discussion in #ubuntu-us-mi
 * paroneayea crashes the party
<paroneayea> :)
<paroneayea> yeah well we deprecated sampling plus this year
<greg-g> snap-l: paroneayea == cwebber
<paroneayea> suckaaaas
<snap-l> Hey, paroneayea, this is Craig from Open Metalcast.
<paroneayea> heya snap-l :)
<snap-l> Yeah, I think Positron Records was using it for some of their artists
<paroneayea> snap-l: so you're a fan of the CC No-Community license eh
<snap-l> Anywho, was trying to understand the hullabaloo over -NC
<paroneayea> ;)
<snap-l> Bah
<paroneayea> CC BY No-Community No-Dialogue license
<snap-l> I can cite more -NC licensed works than BY or SA
<snap-l> BY-SA, BY-ND
<paroneayea> snap-l: our bad, I think http://creativecommons.org/choose/ doesn't really make clear the full impacts of what that option means
<paroneayea> when people pick it
<snap-l> paroneayea: On the contrary, I think it's quite clear
<snap-l> I don't think Eclipse Phase by Posthuman Studios would be CC without NC
<snap-l> nor do I think the bands that release CC material would release as much
<greg-g> snap-l: the cool part is, the percentage of reallyFree vs kindaFree CC licenses is moving more towards reallyFree (ie: no NC or ND): http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Metrics
<snap-l> greg-g: Oh, no doubt.
<greg-g> yeah, just a data point of coolness, not an argument either way, really
<snap-l> I've been trying to convince bands that just release their stuff "for free" to consider releasing under a CC license
<snap-l> Their concern is that people don't profit from their work
<snap-l> and that's what NC seems to give them
<greg-g> well...
<snap-l> These aren't your normal freedom-loving bands, either
<greg-g> licensing your stuff under CC:BY-NC doesn't mean you make money, you still gotta do all the same work that was required under ARR
<greg-g> :)
<snap-l> Carthasy picked CC because Bandcamp gave them the option
<snap-l> greg-g: Correct, but it gives them a choice to be more explicit
<greg-g> also, the argument has been made that it is unlikely that someone else will come along and be able to effectively sell your CC:BY work when your CC:BY work is already availale online
<snap-l> ARR takes all of the cards off the table.
<snap-l> greg-g: Remember shareware tables at computer shows?
<greg-g> and, if they are able to sell your work, they are probably just doing something that you should be doing (ie: providing CD/vinyl/whatever options)
<snap-l> People will sell anything to unsuspecting buyers.
<greg-g> oh, sure, but that isn't a lost sale
<snap-l> Correct
<snap-l> I'm just saying that NC lays all of the cards on the table for what the artist / publisher is expecting
<snap-l> and if you take that off the table, I predict fewer big publishers will take this seriously
<greg-g> there's a section of the community that more correlates with the education sphere that uses NC not because they want to make money off of it, but because they don't want things to ever be charged for, which is kind of weird. Because sometimes just providing access (ie: paper copies of Wikipedia to rural/no internet users) costs money
<snap-l> http://www.cosmicpatrol.com/?page_id=54
<greg-g> I understand that they feel that, I just don't think its *actually* doing anything *for* them
<greg-g> but, I have no hard data, just feelings
<greg-g> as always
<snap-l> NC != No Charge
<greg-g> snap-l: if you want to continue this convo ( :) ) I would recommend joining the cc-community and cc-licenses mailing lists: http://creativecommons.org/contact/
<snap-l> I'll gladly pay for NC content
<snap-l> heh. :)
<paroneayea> I gladly pay for CC BY content even!
<greg-g> I'll gladly pay for CC:BY content ;)
<greg-g> hehe
<paroneayea> I have a shelf full of blender foundation DVDs right next to me
<snap-l> I'll gladly pay artists
<snap-l> (and have)
<greg-g> damn, that was going to be my follow up to (see my name on the list of sponsors to Elephant's Dream)
<greg-g> s/to/too/
<greg-g> hell, I've paid for public domain content (see the MusOpen thing)
<greg-g> just saying, we all agree that paying people who make stuff is cool
<snap-l> no doubt
<greg-g> word
<snap-l> I actively seek this stuff out
 * greg-g nods
<greg-g> you do a ton of good for the community, honestly, snap-l, with OMC
<snap-l> (see Eclipse Phase)
<snap-l> Thanks. :)
<paroneayea> :)
<greg-g> ok, I should write this email and get some other work done, my morning was filled with calls, now I have to catch up :)
<snap-l> greg-g: Thanks for humoring me. :)
<greg-g> but, just mention CC:BY NC and I'll be back !
<greg-g> always
<snap-l> paroneayea: Thanks for jumping in to the discussion. :) Good to meet the IRC version
<paroneayea> snap-l: :D
<paroneayea> happy to jump in
<brousch> ColonelPanic001 snap-l: wow, she is good http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angela_Gossow
<ColonelPanic001> yeah
<ColonelPanic001> she's not a bad growler
<ColonelPanic001> nor a favorite, but consdering she's starting at a female voice pitch, she does well
<snap-l> Yeah, she's definitely a good for for the band
<snap-l> er, fit
<brousch> snap-l: and thanks for Throng of Shoggoths. they're as close to old morbid angel as i've heard http://throngofshoggoths.bandcamp.com/album/nauseated-and-terrified-for-the-future-demo
<brousch> i bought the album
<snap-l> Awesome!
<snap-l> Damn, I lost my copy in the great fuckup of 2011.
<brousch> nothing better than HP lovecraft-inspired death metal
<brousch> can you re-download it?
<snap-l> No, I have to rebuy it
<snap-l> which is kind of a PITA
<snap-l> That's OK. Got me off my duff to pick up Freaky Mind. ;)
<snap-l> http://synthematik.bandcamp.com/album/no-more-manifests
<snap-l> http://outloud.fm/openmetalcast
<brousch> oh great, i found a tag for morbid-angel-like music: sludge
<brousch> fuckmywallet
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-11-23
<snap-l> hot cocoa = a+
<rick_h_> snap-l: awesome
<brousch> omgwtf. digikam found 23 copies of one photo. 23!
<brousch> at the current rate i estimate it will take me 3 months to clean all of this out. awesome
<snap-l> woot
<rick_h_> morning everyone
<Wolfger> morning
<Wolfger> Blazeix: Tried :set rnu... "Unknown option". What vi clone are you using?
<rick_h_> what about :set relativenumber
<rick_h_> he's using the latest vim from arch, so 7.3 something probably
<Wolfger> relativenumber also not working. I'm on vim 7.2 on Win XP
<rick_h_> might be a 7.3 thing
<rick_h_> upgrade!
<rick_h_> you're like a year behind
<Wolfger> :-p
<rick_h_> 2010-08-15
<rick_h_> more than a year!
<rick_h_> yea, looks like that was a 7.3 thing
<Wolfger> urg
<Wolfger> McAfee Web Gateway
<rick_h_> really?
<Wolfger> "Download in progress. Please Wait"
<rick_h_> to vim.org?
<Wolfger> but nothing's happening
<rick_h_> sec
<Wolfger> No, I got to vim.org, but it's hosing up my download
<brousch> vim is evilware. use eclipse
<Wolfger> ok, got it now
<rick_h_> ok then, I was uploading it to my s3 bucket
<Wolfger> combo of McAfee and NoScript
<Wolfger> once I allowed vim.org, mcafee completed the download
<brousch> rick_h_: you are among some great python hackers at canonical http://fwierzbicki.blogspot.com/2011/11/contributing-to-jython.html
<rick_h_> brousch: why I came here.
<rick_h_> http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/weblog/index.shtml works here
<brousch> yeah
<rick_h_> http://barry.warsaw.us/software/index.html
<brousch> geez
<rick_h_> and that's just the top of the head guys
<rick_h_> use a LOT of python
<brousch> is the juju thing python?
<rick_h_> not sure, I've honestly not looked at it closely yet
<brousch> now i wonder if canonical or google has more python code
<rick_h_> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~juju/juju/trunk/files
<rick_h_> python
<Wolfger> Hmm. Not sure if I like or hate rnu...
<rick_h_> Wolfger: heh
<rick_h_> I tried it, doesn't work for me
<rick_h_> but I get it if your brain works that way I suppose
<snap-l> Good morning
<Wolfger> it's easier for, say, "8k", but absolutely sucks for "43G"
<Wolfger> morning snap-l
<rick_h_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=6h5JSojJN3Y funny
<brousch> heh'
<snap-l> rick_h_: Not getting anything for that video
<rick_h_> brousch: did it load for you?
<brousch> yeah, it was fine
<rick_h_> snap-l: must be trying to view it on an iphone
<snap-l> Bah, problem with my command
<brousch> he's creative
<rick_h_> "command"? thought you just clicked the link in your gui world :P
<brousch> i do. it's very nice
<snap-l> rick_h_: har har
<brousch> and gnome shell doesn't throw me over to the web page while it loads, it leaves me in pidgin and pops up a notice when the page is ready
<snap-l> I use weechat, because I have one foot in the gui, and one foot in the cCLI
<brousch> then i click the notice and it takes me to chrome
<snap-l> I'm keepin' it real.
<snap-l> brousch: I would punch that in the neck
<brousch> more like old school
<rick_h_> I use irssi, I can still click on a link
<rick_h_> I use a man's terminal, urxvt which detects urls :P
<rick_h_> it's a terminal thing, not a cli app thing
<snap-l> rick_h_: I use weechat,which adds a nick list on the side, and makes long links impossible to click
<rick_h_> why do you need a nicklist?
<snap-l>  but I use /url 1 to "click" the link
<brousch> the gnome shell notices are less intrusive than unity's. they come up from the bottom and only go about 1/2". also they are clickable
<snap-l> because typing 6 characters is a MAN'S terminal way of saving me a mouseclick. ;)
<brousch> insane
<snap-l> brousch: I know. Mr. CLI is getting in my shit over click ing links
<snap-l> ;)
<rick_h_> because I find it funny that mister OSX "drool me some GUI" is issuing commands to open a link
<snap-l> I'm surprised  ZSH doesn't automatically fetch the link for you and just wait for C-x C-X ^[ // url
<snap-l> Oh, wait, C-x would be an emacs shortcut. That's why. ;)
<rick_h_> I knew you'd catch it sooner or later
<snap-l> Surprised you're not taking it back.
<brousch> damnitall. carriers are making me not want to recommend android to people
<rick_h_> heh, what did they do now?
<brousch> my boss got a new android phone but it started making crazy sounds during calls
<brousch> he took it in, they installed task killer because the problem was caused by all the crap verizon installed on the phone
<snap-l> Lovely.
<brousch> my dad got one and had to return it 2 times because the antenna was bad, and the mic on his exchanged unit was bad
<brousch> not carrier there, i suppose
<brousch> at least with windows computers full of dell crapware you can uninstall it
<brousch> i will whine on twitter. that is sure to get results
<Wolfger> lol
<Wolfger> my only real issue with my Android phone is that the notification sounds for e-mail, etc will play while I'm on a call. Very annoying.
<brousch> hm, i don't notice that
<brousch> but i am on a call like 20mins/mo
<snap-l> I really think Apple had the right idea in telling the carriers (AT&T) what they could and could not do with their phones
<snap-l> Because carriers are like PC manufacturers: Shovel in more shit until something blows up, then scoop out what caused the explosion and ship it
<brousch> i didn't realize how bad it had gotten, i've been using cyanogenmod for so long
<snap-l> I'd be willing to bet that most of everyone's problems with Windows are directly related to the crap the manufacturers ship on the machine pre-installed
<brousch> and viruses
<snap-l> Well, that's a post-install modification. :)
<mydogsnameisrudy> windows sucks when it gets bogged down with all the crap they dump on your system
<brousch> mydogsnameisrudy: yeah, and now they've started doing that on android phone
<brousch> but it's worse because you can't actually uninstall the crap
<snap-l> my favorite are the utilities that essentially break all human interface guidelines
<mydogsnameisrudy> ya i have a android with att thinking of leaving att
<snap-l> it's like someone took an Adobe AIR app and made it core.
<Wolfger> speaking of destroying Android... http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/22/tech/mobile/facebook-buffy-phone-report/index.html?hpt=hp_bn6
<snap-l> Yeah, right.
<brousch> crap, i should have put some names in my question, could have slipped in rick_h_ among foord and warsaw
<snap-l> brousch: ?
<snap-l> Oh, Ask Mark?
<brousch> in the ask sabdfl session
<jjesse> is that happening now/
<jjesse> ?
<brousch> 5 minutes left
<jjesse> ah forgot to set a reminder
<snap-l> Me too
<brousch> don't you follow jcastro on twitter?
<brousch> he's sabdfl's minder today
<jjesse> whats this twitter you talk about
<jjesse> if its not on g+ i don't see it
<snap-l> It was on G+ a well
<snap-l> as
<brousch> jjesse snap-l http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/11/23/%23ubuntu-classroom.html
<snap-l> And it hasn't updated.
<snap-l> OK, now ithas.
<snap-l> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/11/23/%23ubuntu-classroom.html#t15:27 <- Pendulum's question
<snap-l> I don't buy that answer for a second.
<brousch> someone hacked the siri protocol and are writing an android app using it
<snap-l> vala is ok. Go is the future <- WTF?
<brousch> yeah, i don't get that one
<snap-l> brousch: I like your question re: Gnome Shell
<snap-l> but there will always be people who are upset because they cannot make the launcher bright pink <- Dismissive, but fair. ;)
<snap-l> ClassBotgianlucadv asked: in the future, will launchpad support git?15:44
<snap-l> sabdflthe future is a very big place
<snap-l> *cough*
 * rick_h_ links to lunch...first real code review...ugh. I've been thrashed
<rick_h_> /links/limps
<rick_h_> damn, can't type any more either
<snap-l> rick_h_: http://mitechie.com/go/to/lunch
<snap-l> (api call)
<rick_h_> let it be known...I write crappy code
<rick_h_> :)
<brousch> well crap, what does that make mine?
<ColonelPanic001> what brousch said.
<snap-l> My code smells like Grandma.
<rick_h_> I should use it like a "find the things that are different game"
<brousch> my code smells like great grandma, and she's been dead for more than a decade
<rick_h_> go through the file of code and see how many things I got ding'd on you can find
<snap-l> Like th "How Not to Write C++" book?
<snap-l> I smell a blog series.
<rick_h_> hah
<snap-l> And after the initial "huh", it's not that bad of an idea.
 * snap-l really needs to come up with a way to quickly spin-up VMs.
<rick_h_> http://www.reddit.com/r/vim/comments/mmu1c/the_vim_learning_curve_is_a_myth/
<rick_h_> flame headlines ftw
<snap-l> Ruh roh
<snap-l> Cyber Monday Apress: Every eBook $15
<rick_h_> bah, what good are books, you still get thrashed at code reviews :P
<snap-l> rick_h_: Failure just means you found something that doesn't work
<snap-l> that's all
<snap-l> Get back up on the horse, pilgrim
<snap-l> http://208.53.158.48:9564/listen.pls <-
<snap-l> Current song playing is making me want to gag
<snap-l> Brighteye Brison - The Magician's Cave, from the 2011 album The Magician Chronicles Part One
<snap-l> Lyrics are hoooooooooorible
<greg-g> snap-l: what is the station
 * greg-g doesn't trust ip-only urls :)
<snap-l> Delicious Agony Prog-rock radio
<snap-l> I wouldn't steer you wrong
<snap-l> And now they're playing on eof my favorite bands, Spock's Beard
<greg-g> oh right, I forgot about that station
 * greg-g grumbles at Banshee's lack of export/import of radio/podcasts
<snap-l> Yeah, that is a major bummer
<greg-g> dude, google.co.uk is awesome today
<jjesse> that is preety sweet
<snap-l> That was pretty cool
<greg-g> "If you're hiring, the best technical interview possible is the one you don't have to do because the candidate is already kicking ass on one of your open source projects." - http://tom.preston-werner.com/2011/11/22/open-source-everything.html
<snap-l> That is so true
<Wolfger> bwahahahahah http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/121347/are-there-studies-about-the-disadvantages-of-using-issue-tracking-systems
<snap-l> p.se is where the 9-5 developers go to whine about work
<greg-g> :)
<snap-l> When the answer to each of these can be summarized as "please shut up and quietly get back to work", you know you have a problem.
<snap-l> http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/107233/young-c-student-lacking-direction
<snap-l> ^^
<Blazeix> snap-l++
<jcastro> god
<Blazeix> whenever I read a programmers.stackexchange post I have little mini-aneurysms
<jcastro> everything about programmers.se makes me want to punch someone
<jcastro> it's sole purpose is to keep that crap off of SO
<snap-l> jcastro: Or like up everyone for a throat-fucking?
<jcastro> "why is version control good?"
<snap-l> "Am I coding too much, or thinking too much about coding?"
<snap-l> "Why does it hurt when I pee?"
<Wolfger> "What music should I listen to while I code?"
<ColonelPanic001> http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/120613/what-version-control-system-can-manage-all-aspects
<brousch> Wolfger: whatever snap-l tells you to
<rick_h_> "what kind of puppy is the best to punch when you're really reaching the end of the line?"
<Wolfger> "How do I make my boss/workers see that he/they are being stupid and I'm right?"
<rick_h_> you guys see the "Apache considered harmful...they force using svn" stuff today?
<rick_h_> talk about punch puppy worthy crap
<Wolfger> lol
<Wolfger> no animal cruelty, please
<rick_h_> sorry, either puppy or baby and I can't swing to the baby side yet
<brousch> are puppies or babies better to punch if i'm having problems with vim?
<snap-l> rick_h_: Dogfooding. ;)
<brousch> muahahah
<Wolfger> punch the homeless. Nobody cares about them, and they're more durable.
<Wolfger> They probably wouldn't even complain if you gave them money after.
 * Wolfger is going to hell...
<snap-l> Wolfger: We are all several missed paychecks from being homeless
<snap-l> I swear, every downloader in existence shold just be a front-end to wget
<rick_h_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCvX2N-RoEg ok, this stops me from wanting to punch puppies
<snap-l> What the hell
<snap-l> (Trying to download netbeans, and seeing it freeze at exactly 72%, each time)
<brousch> netbeans? really?
<brousch> i thought it was dead
<snap-l> Trying something for a customer.
<brousch> thaumaturgy?
<snap-l> I think you mean necromancer
<snap-l> thaumaturgy is miracle working. :)
<brousch> isn't bringing something back from the dead a miracle?
<brousch> God, the ultimate necromancer?
<snap-l> necromancy is generally regarded as the art of bringing back the dead for nefarious purposes
<snap-l> Necromancy is a claimed form of magic that involves communication with the deceased, either by summoning their spirit in the form of an apparition or raising them bodily, for the purpose of divination, imparting the ability to foretell future events or discover hidden knowledge. The term may sometimes be used in a more general sense to refer to black magic or witchcraft.[1][2]
<snap-l> I think there's a fine line between resurrection of the dead vs. necromancy
<Wolfger> I think there's no line
<snap-l> http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/abydos/
<snap-l> "Abydos: The merest whisper of the name sends shivers down the spines of the God-fearing people of Yrth. What lurks in the forbidden city of Abydos is so great a heresy, the Church suppresses all mention of its very existence. But such loathing has no meaning for the shambling, silent bodies who roam the streets of Abydos. The undead are the greatest resource of the necromantic priests who practice
<snap-l> their dark heresies in that city. Their beliefs and mandates are backed by the blades of highly trained soldiers and a very silent majority."
<snap-l> "Warning! GURPS Banestorm: Abydos describes a culture wherein the living interact with the dead in ways that most readers would deem "intimate" and/or "disrespectful," and thus inappropriate. These elements may offend some readers. Please consider your gaming group's sensibilities before introducing this material into your campaign!"
 * Wolfger waits for somebody to point out the usage of defibrillators to bring people back to life...
<_stink_> or medical cooling
<snap-l> Wolfger: That's regarded as life-saving, not bringing someone back from death
<greg-g> define death
<Wolfger> snap-l: from no heartbeat to yes heartbeat... sounds pretty clear-cut to me. :-)
<snap-l> I can't use a defibrillator to bring back Steve Jobs.
<greg-g> for some definitions of death I was once dead
 * greg-g drowned as a kid to the point of not breathing/no heart beat.
<Wolfger> ok, ok, so defibrillators can only bring back the mostly-dead.
<_stink_> that's what i took away from a story on medical cooling... that we don't really have a good definition of death
<snap-l> Were you declared dead to the point where they gave up all hope of resuscitation?
<_stink_> greg-g is a zombie?
<greg-g> mom/dad did cpr for a while, brought me back, then I have pneumonia and was in the hosptial for the next month-ish
<_stink_> dang
<greg-g> s/have/had/
<brousch> is that why you don't like to swim now?
<greg-g> snap-l: no, but its more fun to say that I was dead at one point ;)
<Wolfger> greg-g is a zombie? I knew it!
<greg-g> brousch: I *love* swimming
<snap-l> greg-g: Definitely shocks the conversation
<greg-g> brb
<snap-l> Anyways, it's interesting that we went from a throw-away comment about netbeans to necromancy to defining death.
<snap-l> Only on the internet.
<Wolfger> always fun in #ubuntu-us-mi
<Wolfger> snap-l: not true. I've had such conversations in meatspace
<snap-l> You've talked about Netbeans in meatspace? :)
<_stink_> gahaha
<Wolfger> so much so that my group of friends coined the phrase "once again, as always, we digress"
<Wolfger> snap-l: don't be silly. Nobody talks about netbeans
<rick_h_> ok, code updated and resubmitted for another beating.
<rick_h_> talk of moving CHC to a bar coming quickly lol
<snap-l> heh
<brousch> this is supposedly the biggest bar night of the year. i never understood that
<rick_h_> people travel by day, hit the bar in their new local by night
<greg-g> and they want to spend the least amount of time with family so they go see old friends at the bar the night before instead
<greg-g> plus, people can sleep in tomorrow before the football game ;)
<rick_h_> exactly!
<rick_h_> in-laws!!!!!
<greg-g> alright, back to the home office for lunch and post lunch work :)
<snap-l> "from the home office in greg-g's living room"
<rick_h_> ok, I give up...wonder if the machine shops are looking for someone to push the green button
<snap-l> rick_h_: Relax
<snap-l> new job, new coding conventions
<_stink_> you expect to be productive 10 days in??
<_stink_> man
<_stink_> be realistic
<snap-l> take it from someone who beat his head against everything at SF
<snap-l> I thought for sure they were going to say "sorry, we made a mistake"
<snap-l> It's natural
<snap-l> now get back up on that horse.
<rick_h_> yea, except I know my PEP and don't tell me I'm wrong when it comes to PEP8 or PEP 257...cause I'll link that crap back at you :P
 * brousch looks up pep257
 * snap-l looks up pep 357
<rick_h_> 257, docstrings
<brousch> ug
<rick_h_> lol, "you're doing it wrong!" :P
<brousch> i absolutely am
<snap-l> Someone needs a hug
<brousch> i nominate snap-l
<brousch> as our leader, you are also our designated hugger
 * snap-l resigns
<brousch> really? you'd resign before hugging rick_h_?
<snap-l> No, I'd resign if I have to hug all of you cheeky bastards.
<rick_h_> I'd resign before hugging me
<brousch> awwww
<brousch> does yui do the same sort of stuff as jquery?
<snap-l> Well, that sucks. Managed to goof up X
<rick_h_> brousch: ?? how do you mean?
<brousch> i mean would i use jquery and yui, or do they do the same things?
<rick_h_> brousch: in a lot of ways I suppose: http://www.jsrosettastone.com/
<rick_h_> but has more
<rick_h_> yea, you'd pick one
<brousch> wow, could those fonts be any wispier?
<snap-l> K, time to reboot the machine.
<snap-l> See you on the other side.
<brousch> holy cow. i fell asleep in my chair and almost fell over
<greg-g> nice
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-11-24
<snap-l> Howdy
<greg-g> yo yo
<greg-g> going to be a quiet few days :)
<greg-g> so...
<greg-g> I may or may not have bricked my WRT54G
<greg-g> but!
<greg-g> I received my new Nikon D3100 in the mail!
<snap-l> NIce
<snap-l> WHat'd you do to the wrt65g?
<greg-g> I was going to do dd-wrt, but I decided to test flashing with the updated firmware from linksys
<greg-g> *that* borked
<snap-l> Ugh
<rick_h_> yea, quiet
<rick_h_> greg-g: woot
<rick_h_> oops
<snap-l> I think you can unbrick from that.
<greg-g> hopefully
<greg-g> nope
<greg-g> need to do JTAG
<greg-g> (if that'll work)
<greg-g> and ef me, I don't want to fuck with JTAG for this shit
<greg-g> new toy, take the pain away!
 * greg-g taps taps taps taps taps taps taps taps taps taps taps taps taps taps taps taps taps taps taps taps taps taps taps taps taps taps taps taps taps taps taps taps taps taps taps taps on his keyboard waiting for the battery to charge
<rick_h_> heh
<rick_h_> tap more
<snap-l> JTAG?
<greg-g> snap-l: http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/JTAG
<snap-l> Ugh
<greg-g> yeah :(
<greg-g> might have to head to noisebridge and introduce myself (the most popular hacker space in SF)
<jjesse> evening
<rick_h_> party
<jjesse> yeah?
<Blazeix> how's the yui theatre thing going?
<Blazeix> rick_h_: were you the one who bookmarked the async UIs link on bookie? curious about your opinion on that
<Blazeix> that's a big problem at work; the company that made the UI went full async, so they try to guess what the server response will be. And often guess incorrectly
<greg-g> http://www.flickr.com/photos/grggrssmr/6392626957/
<rick_h_> Blazeix: yea, I bookmarked it
<rick_h_> I like the idea, but you have to have a really good notification system in place I think
<rick_h_> because you have to be ready to handle failures
<rick_h_> and preferably a queue you can walk back and "undo" things with
<rick_h_> but I like the idea, to get more of a native feel and less "spinner loading..." going on
<rick_h_> but yea, if you fail fairly often, it can be a headache
<Blazeix> yeah, the idea seems great. I guess for simple apps it might work, but anything with server-side business logic or multiple-user concurrency suffers
<rick_h_> Blazeix: yea, I've not used it a ton tbh, so it was more "this sounds good...let's try to do more of it"
<rick_h_> than "I'm a convert, this or bust!"
<Blazeix> we're currently trying to convince the other team to introduce spinners, or at least disable ui elements until the server response comes in
<rick_h_> yea, see I'm seeing that in LP we've got some horrible timings on things
<Blazeix> rick_h_: yeah, definitely, just trying to get other perspectives :)
<rick_h_> 2-4s
<rick_h_> and spinner for that is just not going to work
<rick_h_> so I'd rather say we had an operations queue, and try to deal with things better
<rick_h_> then again, we're a freaking mess...and getting a real queue into the process means touching so much damn code right now
<Blazeix> yeah, more and more we find ourselves implementing COMET notification for client apps. feels like a bit of a cop-out, but it's so damn useful
<rick_h_> heh yea
<Blazeix> is that a client-side queue for requests/responses, or a server side queue for incoming requests
<rick_h_> I was thinking something similar, it might make more sense/be easier when you start using websockets and webworkers
<rick_h_> Blazeix: I'm thinking more like an undo stack
<Blazeix> ah, gotcha
<rick_h_> "hey, the user said delete this, here's a ref to the node, and a callback, if it fails...run restore on that
<rick_h_> "if it succeeds, pop it off the queue
<rick_h_> basically try to abstract it so that it's just part of any xhr request kind of thing
<rick_h_> at least in theory that's what I'd shoot for I think
<Blazeix> ah, yeah, our client app does something like that, some of the feedback we got complained about poltergeists, as elements started jumping around for long request/response
<rick_h_> why wait for the spinner if I want to walk through and delete 10 items in quick hurry
<rick_h_> yea, I think that's the notification stuff
<rick_h_> you'd want to go "hey, I can't delete user XX, the server says: ERROR"
<rick_h_> and then on clicking/ack'ing the notification, the div is restored or something
<rick_h_> it'd take some working for sure
<rick_h_> but again, if the UI is very interactive, I think it's a win
<rick_h_> I think that's the big bar, how much interaction do you expect, and is there enough to want to smooth it out
<Blazeix> ah, restoring the element once the user acknowledges the error is interesting
<Blazeix> I need to take a look at spine. I sort of grok backbone now, and spine seems slightly more structured
<rick_h_> yea, I mean you take away the "in your face" on success, but make it more "in your face" on fail
<Blazeix> right
<rick_h_> we watched the YUI MVC video, they've got some good stuff there
<rick_h_> very backbone-ish, but built on YUIs bits
<rick_h_> actaully created a class Pjax lol
<Blazeix> I've added yui theater to my rss feeds, so hopefully I can start keeping up on them.
<rick_h_> it's a wave, they're mainly YUIConf videos
<rick_h_> but normally good stuff
<rick_h_> I want to see the crockford future of JS
<rick_h_> we only got through one tonight
<greg-g> the photography world amazes me in their control freakism: "o protect against Copyright Infringement, Nikon offers two versions of our current product manuals. A fully printable manual for existing owners (which requires a valid, North American, Nikon camera serial number and registration to download) and a non-printable version for others (no serial number required)."
<greg-g> s/"o/"To/
<greg-g> they capitalized Copyright Infringement to show you they mean business
<snap-l> Happy THanksgiving, everyone
<snap-l> greg-g: I find it adorable that people think setting a little bit prevents printing
<rick_h_> morning, and happy thanksgiving
<snap-l> I got a note from Eric Ferraiuolo via twitter last night
<snap-l> (presenter of the video we watched)
<mydogsnameisrudy> happy turkey day
<rick_h_> snap-l: oh yea?
<rick_h_> snap-l: awesome
<brousch> snap-l: cease and desist for public performance?
<snap-l> brousch: No, thankfully
<greg-g> happy thanksgiving everyone!
<snap-l>  and to you as well!
<snap-l> stuffed
<_stink_> ate already?  i love the early meals
<_stink_> but in-laws are waiting until 5
<_stink_> :|
<snap-l> ugh
<snap-l> earlier thr better
<snap-l> i dont like waiting for holiday meals
<snap-l> makes everything go slower
<_stink_> heh
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-11-25
<rick_h_> happy thanksgiving, hope everyone got their fill of yummies today
<snap-l> Thanks. Am overstuffed
<rick_h_> yea, I didn't follow the rules tonight at all
<rick_h_> hmmm, pie and cupcake...
<snap-l> heh
<brousch> we ate at 1. i want a turkey sammich now but would surely explode
<gamerchick02> how's everyone's turkey day going?
<jjesse> awesome and yours?
<gamerchick02> good
<gamerchick02> just got lubuntu installed on the netbook
<gamerchick02> i'm liking it. and irc in pidgin isn't too bad...
<jjesse> oh cool
<jjesse> i'm just trying to figure out my new shiny macbook air :)
<gamerchick02> macbook air?
<gamerchick02> nice
<gamerchick02> i'm not a huge fan of macs... though i haven't tried an Air.
<gamerchick02> i need a good, light twitter/identi.ca app for lubuntu.
<gamerchick02> this is hard to find
<gamerchick02> and no, gwibber isn't a good alternative. i've been using the pidgin plugins but it's hard to follow what's going on.
<gamerchick02> hrm
<jjesse> yeah macbook air'
<jjesse> 13 inch 4 gigs of ram
<jjesse> i7 processor
<gamerchick02> nice
<jjesse> it is super fast
<gamerchick02> sounds like it
<jjesse> its a work device :)
<jjesse> so i didn't have to buy it
<gamerchick02> ah
<jjesse> which makes it even nicer
<gamerchick02> i have an HP Elitebook for work, but it's running... windows XP
<gamerchick02> i feel like i'm trying to eat steak with a spoon with it.
<jjesse> boo upgrade to windows 7
<gamerchick02> yeah, that is nice!
<gamerchick02> i can't!
<jjesse> double boo
<gamerchick02> it's locked down more than a federal prison
<jjesse> that sucks
<gamerchick02> 7 is supposed to be coming.... they say.
<jjesse> been there and done that
<jjesse> maybe by the time windows 8 is up
<jjesse> out
<gamerchick02> well, i need it for some specialized stuff.
<gamerchick02> lol jjesse
<gamerchick02> probably
<jjesse> beta release for 8 at CES in 2012
<gamerchick02> wow
<gamerchick02> i don't mind 7.
<jjesse> brb laundyr
<gamerchick02> how are you liking OSX?
<gamerchick02> ok
<gamerchick02> does anyone know of an easy way to extract my notes from tomboy to straight text so i can import them to something else (lighter, preferably)?
<jjesse> i am liking it
<jjesse> there are some things that are a bit frustrting
<jjesse> looks like bzr doesn't work w/ lion
<jjesse> so don't know what is going to happen for ubuntu-doc work
<gamerchick02> eeep
<gamerchick02> ugh. i don't want to run tomboy on this machine (it'll bog it down) but i want to export all my notes. i'll have to wait til i have my other laptop
<gamerchick02> i have tomboy on there
<gamerchick02> and maybe i can extract with it
<jjesse> oh
<gamerchick02> my notes are stored in dropbox so that's not a problem
<jjesse> i switched over to evernote
<jjesse> does that work on ubuntu?
<gamerchick02> i have them but not in a format i can use
<gamerchick02> evernote? no
<gamerchick02> nevernote is a java app that sort of works
<jjesse> oh bummer on that
<gamerchick02> but you can use the app in a browser
<jjesse> oh ok
<gamerchick02> i do like to have the option to use it if i don't have internet though
<jjesse> yeah i used it on my Windows 7 build, my android phone and my ipad
<jjesse> used to use OneNote when I was Windows only
<gamerchick02> oooh
<gamerchick02> nice
<gamerchick02> i've heard good things about onenote
<jjesse> i love onenote
<jjesse> its awesome
<gamerchick02> i'm thinking of springpad
<gamerchick02> but again, i want an app that will work without internet
<jjesse> never heard of that
<gamerchick02> i case i need it
<gamerchick02> www.springpad.com
<gamerchick02> i think
<gamerchick02> my brother is awesome
<gamerchick02> he set up opendns on our router
<jjesse> 45 minutes left in copying office for Mac over corporate vpn
<gamerchick02> earthlink has shit dns
<gamerchick02> eeep
<jjesse> i bet
<gamerchick02> but springpad looks cool
<jjesse> well its a 1.2 gb iso
<gamerchick02> wow
<gamerchick02> yeah
<jjesse> wondering if my vpn will die when i stop for the night?
<gamerchick02> not sure
<jjesse> i bet it will
<gamerchick02> ooooh. i'm finally moving this weekend
<gamerchick02> :)
<jjesse> somewhere nice?
<gamerchick02> got my apartment (finally)
<jjesse> yay
<gamerchick02> Auburn Hills Apartments
<jjesse> cool
<gamerchick02> yeah
<jjesse> going to freak people by having the terminal open full screen sometime
<jjesse> and be like yeah i just run the shell :)
<gamerchick02> nice
<gamerchick02> i'm doing all my chat via pidgin, which isn't ideal but heck
<gamerchick02> it works
<gamerchick02> and pidgin's irc has gotten better it seems. since the last time i tried
<gamerchick02> it
<jjesse> i'm using XChat Azure
<jjesse> whatever that is
<gamerchick02> sounds like xchat for mac.
<gamerchick02> i could have gone with irssii or something but i like pidgin
<gamerchick02> oh dear god the Target commercial for black friday is annoying
<jjesse> all holiday commercials are anoying
<jjesse> did you see the mace's justin bieber one?
<jjesse> the app store in os x lion really doesn't have anything useful in it does it?
<jjesse> i want these programs and have to go to the web instead of the app store
<jjesse> seems silly to me
<jjesse> and this whole download a file and drag it to an icon or something
<jjesse> wierd
<gamerchick02> no. i don't pay much attention to commercials
<gamerchick02> i've never used the app store
<gamerchick02> the only app store i use is the android one
<jjesse> the iOS store has a bunch of useful stuff, but very little in the mac os x app store i want to sue
<jjesse> oh well off to bed thanks for chatting
<gamerchick02> ok see ya!
<rick_h_> morning all
<brousch> ug
<rick_h_> yes, I'm with ya there
<rick_h_> hmm, so my package made it to Pontiac, and since they're not sending ground out today/tomorrow I wonder if they'll let me pick it up
<rick_h_> ah damn, it's closed today and tomorrow
<rick_h_> brousch: ping, do you have IE handy?
<brousch> i can steal my wife's computer
<rick_h_> that's ok
<rick_h_> thanks
<brousch> wow, epic post on jjesse's google+
<brousch> https://plus.google.com/115940769113439717190/posts/Vyhi6zYeHiV
<brousch> it will have you punching babies (not just puppies)
<rick_h_> ah crap, black friday deal on the kindle DX
<brousch> color or diaf
<rick_h_> heh, sorry I prefer to read
<rick_h_> I've grown up past all those color picture books I give my son :)
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h_> recovered snap-l ?
<snap-l> Yeah, able to look at food again
<snap-l> was actually a very nice Thanksgiving
<snap-l> Uh oh, Kindle DX is $259
<snap-l> I think I can hear rick_h_ making the case for itnow.
<rick_h_> I've been doing it alreay...wife wants a pdf reader
<rick_h_> tempted to get it "for her" and see if it works
<rick_h_> if not, I get it and I've got to find her a tabler
<rick_h_> tablet
<snap-l> sly. ;)
<brousch> magazines are color too
<rick_h_> yea, but hers are medical journals. I think non-color would work in actual use
<brousch> and the interwebz
<rick_h_> and if not, then all the sooner it gets to me
<rick_h_> brousch: heh, yes...but really color is far down the list of useful bits like battery life, readability, and weight
<brousch> youtube
<brousch> netflix
<rick_h_> lol, that's what computers and roku are for
<rick_h_> I hear the average house has a ton of TVs
<rick_h_> :)
<brousch> we have 1
<snap-l> We have one TV
<snap-l> and it's pretty much a monitor for the Wii
<brousch> my coworkers have more TVs than people in their house
<snap-l> and the DVD player.
<snap-l> I've never understood that
<snap-l> then again, we have more monitors and laptops than people in this house.
<rick_h_> heh, well we've got 3 though only two in use. Upstairs/downstairs and workout area in basement
<rick_h_> ah, ie time done...close the wife's laptop
<snap-l> Need some clorox wipes? :)
<rick_h_> purell
<brousch> or tissues?
<rick_h_> :P
<brousch> i think we're going to the muppets today
<rick_h_> you suck!
<rick_h_> :P
<rick_h_> I'm planning on finding a place to see it in AL
<snap-l> Need someone to give some recon on the movie
<rick_h_> sahme the boy is just a little too young
<rick_h_> snap-l: mpirnat saw it, reviewed ok (at least the < 140char twitter review)
<snap-l> Yeah, I'm not likely to see it in the theaters.
<brousch> this will be G's first theater movie, other than little museum movies
<brousch> once again beaten to the punch https://plus.google.com/108952536790629690817/posts/Ygc2SoyWkin
<rick_h_> brousch: lol
<snap-l> https://plus.google.com/u/0/114999238419187496486/posts/P7TQLV2VouA <- Just laid down the gauntlet.
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> hardly hair
<rick_h_> fair
<snap-l> Well, unfortunately it isn't a fair bet at all
<snap-l> I'd love nothing more than to use free alternatives
<snap-l> but when i've seen members of the free software community chased away because they weren't "freetarded" enough, that pisses me off
<rick_h_> Blazeix: https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+filebug hit no I need to report a new bug and the auto sizing textarea is there
<rick_h_> now the work to get it to spread across the rest of the site
<snap-l> rick_h_: Very nice. :)
<rick_h_> :)
<snap-l> Hey rick_h_, I heard you like pie, so I found someone who baked a cherry, apple, and pumpkin pie inside of a cake.
<snap-l> So you can eat pie while you eat cake.
<snap-l> (Cherpumple)
<rick_h_> snap-l: heh, thanks
<snap-l> Leave it to us to push the boundaries of food science in ways that will kill us
<gamerchick02> howdy. you're all not shopping up a storm?
<gamerchick02> ;)
<gamerchick02> i'm playing with lubuntu. nice on the netbook, especially when you hide the taskbar.
<rick_h_> nope, no shopping today
<rick_h_> just work
<snap-l> God no, not going anywhere near a shopping plavcw
<rick_h_> did make it to the coffee shop for the afternoon though
<gamerchick02> nice
<gamerchick02> anyone running bitlbee in here?
<gamerchick02> i'm not shopping at all
<snap-l> Not in a while
<gamerchick02> :)
<gamerchick02> i'm thinking about it because pidin is kinda resource hungry and i feel like being (somewhat) geeky and running chat through irc
<snap-l> brb, going to play some arcade games w/ JoDee.
<rick_h_> I used to
<gamerchick02> i *am* using xchat, only because i can't seem to figure out irsii
<gamerchick02> blah
<rick_h_> snap-l: let her win ;P
<rick_h_> heh, irssi isn't bad
<snap-l> rick_h_: You don't seem to understand
<gamerchick02> snap-l that sounds like fun
<snap-l> JoDee lets me win on occasion. :)
<rick_h_> I run that with bitlebee for a bit, but ended up not using chat much so just left it alone
<snap-l> rick_h_: I told you the MOrtal Kombat III story.
<rick_h_> snap-l: ok, well make sure ot suck up nicely then to get a victory or two
<gamerchick02> rick_h_ cool. i'll try it and if it doesn't work, i can always disable the service
<gamerchick02> *shrug*
<gamerchick02> i'm trying to do things lighter on this netbook
<gamerchick02> lubuntu is about the right speed for it. hah!
<rick_h_> greg-g: heh, party pooper
<jcastro> thinkup charm ready!
<rick_h_> sweet
<snap-l> Got my Smarthome wall-switch in the mail today.
<brousch> dagnabit, a year ago i wrote a sci-fi book plot revolving around this idea http://tech.slashdot.org/story/11/11/25/143222/rethinking-rail-travel-boarding-a-moving-train
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-11-26
<gamerchick02> the moving truck is loaded. i'm ready to roll for tomorrow. :)
<gamerchick02> brousch, that looks kinda cool
<rick_h_> gamerchick02: cool!
<rick_h_> gamerchick02: apartment ready then?
<gamerchick02> yes, it is!
<gamerchick02> i'm quite excited
<gamerchick02> and tired. loading all my stuff is tiring. whew
<gamerchick02> i'm done tuckered out.
<rick_h_> moving sucks
<rick_h_> but new places rock!
<gamerchick02> it does but i hope this is the last time for awhile.
<gamerchick02> rick_h_ what are your thoughts on Lubuntu?
<gamerchick02> oh, related to moving... i wish i could press a button and all my stuff would be moved down there. without the need for a truck and all that stuff.
<rick_h_> gamerchick02: I think if I'm going to live in *buntu space I'd just use ubuntu and install what I wanted
<rick_h_> but I've not used or looked at Lubuntu
<gamerchick02> it uses lxde
<gamerchick02> you're thinkpad is beefy enough to not worry about a lightweight distro
<gamerchick02> you could even run Vista on there with no problems
 * gamerchick02 ducks and runs away
<rick_h_> true
<gamerchick02> your thinkpad
<gamerchick02> sheesh
<rick_h_> and right now I'm using 1.2GB of ram, and a load of .23
<gamerchick02> my fingers get away from me
<gamerchick02> i don't know what i'm running right now. xchat and chromium
<gamerchick02> i'm running bitlbee for my IM and it seems to work
<gamerchick02> i just need to get statusnet and facebook working through bitlbee and all will be good
<gamerchick02> text is lovely
<rick_h_> <3
<gamerchick02> i'm not completely converted over to what you're doing, but i'm getting along with Lubuntu and xchat
<gamerchick02> i couldn't *get* irsii
<gamerchick02> maybe i'm dumb
<gamerchick02> actually, that's probably a good explanation. *shrug*
<rick_h_> come to CHC sometime, there's not a lot to it
<rick_h_> that's kind of what's nice
<rick_h_> once you get the config down, it's nothing
<rick_h_> this sucks, stupid Nexus phone delays caused me to just buy a dashboard GPS unit
<rick_h_> grumble grumble
<gamerchick02> oooh. i'll have to come again
<gamerchick02> i was packing, loading and unloading and driving north this week
<jjesse> ok i think i got my Air all set to work on Monday ;0
<jjesse> just need to get a display connector at best buy once the crazies settle down
<gamerchick02> a display connector? didn't come with one
<gamerchick02> ?
<jjesse> gamerchick02,  nope
<jjesse> no vga no hdmi cable
<jjesse> so i need to get a cable to connect to external monitor/projector
<jjesse> but i have vpn and mail setup
<jjesse> and docs synced so i think i'm good to go
<brousch> welcome to apple dongle hell
<gamerchick02> wow. jjesse, that's crazy. so it connects with USB or something?
<gamerchick02> ok. it's time for CSI:NY. also, bed. i'm really tired. see everyone tomorrow if i can steal someone's unsecured wifi.
<brousch> snap-l: http://nookdevs.com/NookTouch_Rooting
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> Wow, that's nice and easy to root
<jjesse> l
<snap-l> o
<jjesse> haha
<jjesse> thanks :)
<rick_h_> we having fun yet?
<rick_h_> I hate packing, feel like I'm forgetting something
<snap-l> Yeah, I hate that as well
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-11-27
<rick_h_> snap-l: you sucker :P
<snap-l> Why am I in trouble?
<snap-l> I did nothing
<snap-l> I said nothing
<snap-l> I am innocent. :)
<rick_h_> snap-l: hah, innocent, yea right!
<snap-l> I did nothing
<snap-l> we were sitting at dinner, and I said I wanted to be productive this week that I have off
<rick_h_> lol
<snap-l> and I said I was going to do some technical reading
<rick_h_> yea? that's it?
<snap-l> she asked if it would be helpful for me to work in the living room, with another screen
<rick_h_> heh, congrats :P
<snap-l> and then the cat was out of the bag.
<snap-l> I literally did _nothing_
<snap-l> She spilled everything, including her little "network". ;)
<rick_h_> sure, we all believe that...well congrats on the new toy :)
<rick_h_> her "network"? She had it online already :P
<snap-l> Uh huh
<snap-l> ;)
<rick_h_> well, for the record, my asking about using one to read pdfs wasn't all a sham
<rick_h_> my wife has asked about it :)
<snap-l> guilty conscience much? :)
<snap-l> I appreciate it, though
<rick_h_> hey, I think I did my job well
<rick_h_> and I didn't give it up
<rick_h_> how could I know she was suck of a weak link?
<rick_h_> /suck/such
<snap-l> We both have a hard time keeping gifts secret
<rick_h_> heh, well enjoy. I look forward to seeing it at a CHC when I get back
<snap-l> Thanks. :)
<snap-l> All packed and ready?
<rick_h_> pretty much, I know I'll have missed something, but oh well
<snap-l> That's why they make Wal*Mart.
<snap-l> But yeah, I can totally relate
<snap-l> especially if I'm not driving on my trip, I feel doubly paranoid that I'm leaving something behind.
<snap-l> morning
<_stink_> yo
<greg-g> yo yo
<brousch> i installed ubuntu 11.10 for my dad yesterday. i had to go with unity 2d since both gnome shell and unity were not happy with his video card
<_stink_> is that an upgrade for your dad? or new ubuntu user?
<brousch> he was on ubuntu 8.04
<_stink_> coolio
<brousch> finally got rid of his modem
<snap-l> brousch: 56K modem, or DSL modem?
<brousch> 56k
<snap-l> Ugh
<jjesse> really?
<jjesse> that good?
<rick_h_> ugh, howdy
<rick_h_> ok, this place is freaking amazing, but no room service fml
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-11-19
<Blazeix> i really liked 1devday
<Blazeix> there were a few good talks. the jvm concurrency and 'using types to write your code' were my favorite
<Blazeix> both keynotes were _really_ bad though
<Blazeix> i really wanted to go the Neo4j talk but decided at the last second not to. I heard that was good too, though
<widox> Blazeix: I almost hit the types talk
<Blazeix> that was a good one. i just barely knew enough haskell to hang on
<widox> haha, yeah the first keynote was pretty awful
<jrwren> who gave it?
<jrwren> and who gave the good ones?
<Blazeix> Ted Neward gave the first keynote.
<jrwren> ah, i do not like him very much.
<Blazeix> Nilanjan Raychaudhuri (from Typesafe) gave the jvm concurrency one
<jrwren> i don't know him.
<Blazeix> and Job Vranish from Atomic Object gave the haskell types talk
<jrwren> cool
<Blazeix> yeah, i didn't know him either, but typesafe is a pretty popular company in the scala world
<Blazeix> would a pythony person be willing to tell me if this is reasonably idiomatic python? http://vpaste.net/yueLT?bg=dark
<Blazeix> it finds the mathematical modes of a list of ints
<jrwren> looks reasonably pythonic
<Blazeix> the freqs[0][1] feels a bit dirty to me
<jrwren> its a local, i don't care about those.
<Blazeix> yeah, true. i suppose it's a simple enough method that it doesn't really matter
<Blazeix> s/method/function/
<Blazeix> this will be used as a reference implementation for a programming quiz, so i want to put it under a bit of scrutiny
<derekv> https://github.com/DerekV/stacksp/blob/master/stacksp.lisp *evil laugh*
<Blazeix> derekv: haha, nice
<derekv> so with that code "2 3 4 +" emits "( 9 )" and "2 3 4 + 20 -" is "( 11 )" etc
<derekv> but what i'm going to work on next is being able to define functions from inside the language, and nested stacks
<snap-l> Blazeix: I've used that convention before (freqs[0][1]), but not sure if it's the most pythonic way to do it
<rick_h> Blazeix: yea, I feel dirty with that stuff, but native types ftw and you don't keep around the freq. value so there's no point turning it into a NamedTuple for the pretty code factor
<snap-l> rick_h: I'm glad I'm not the only one. :)
<rick_h> yea, if Counter was your own method I'd say make it return a namedtuple
<rick_h> and then use that
<rick_h> but it's a stdlib biult in so no point
<rick_h> Blazeix: http://paste.mitechie.com/show/840/ though is what I'd go with. Move hte return to avoid the Collection at all. max is a reserved word since it's a built in method.
<rick_h> Blazeix: and the optional is returning a generator vs the actual list to make it lazy
<snap-l> Wow, Quantal is pretty slow in a virtual machine as far as rendering
<snap-l> I mean "watch, as I fade in this window" slow
<rick_h> they removed the unity 2d stuff so you get sofware rendering
<rick_h> so need 3d on there or non-unity I think
<snap-l> Even with it turned on, it's pretty slow.
<brousch> Unity?
<snap-l> Yeah
<snap-l> And as such, you can't turn the transitions off without help
<Blazeix> rick_h: oh yeah, good call on the 'max' variable name
<Blazeix> not sure about returning a generator though. most_common() returns a list, so i think i'll try to ape that pattern
<rick_h> yea just tossed that out as an optional over optimized version :)
<Blazeix> haha, thanks snap-l rick_h jrwren for your help
<jrwren> anytime.
<jrwren> did you pylint it?
<rick_h> only lint issues are the testing code at the bottom missing spaces after the ,
<rick_h> :)
<rick_h> I looked at it
<jrwren> cool
<jrwren> just a suggested first step
<rick_h> gah, monday screw up.
<rick_h> forgot my headphones at the coffee shop and sitting next to EMTs with their radios going off every other minute
<ColonelPanic001> working without headphones < death
<rick_h> yea, #firstworldproblems and all that jazz
<ColonelPanic001> I should seriously start trying to get up really early in the morning. The cube farm is much less annoying when it's nearly empty
<ColonelPanic001> the problem is, I'm more of a "sleep from 2am-10am" person
<rick_h> yea, always loved my quiet morning time in the cube
<rick_h> ugh, yea no good there
<ColonelPanic001> I miss Traffic Engine et. al.
<ColonelPanic001> being able to get up at 10am, walk into the living room and check email
<rick_h> well it should think out a bit after 5pm
<ColonelPanic001> etc
<jjesse> our office has gotten louder since we've gone to non-assigned cubes
<ColonelPanic001> non-assigned cubes? may as well hang yourself
<ColonelPanic001> this is MY CUBE
<ColonelPanic001> IT SUCKS, BUT IT IS MINE
<jjesse> so we have people who make phone calls all day sitting in the open area
<ColonelPanic001> seriously, murder them.
<rick_h> more reason to get in early
<ColonelPanic001> murder.
<rick_h> get the good cubes
<jjesse> that's what i do
<jjesse> or work more from home :)
<ColonelPanic001> one thing I do like about working on a campus, though - I coule grab a laptop and gtfo, go to many other buildings
<ColonelPanic001> the problem is I have two monitors here, and that is a thing of beauty
<ColonelPanic001> and finding another location that has power/decent net/desk/etc
<rick_h> hah, yea.  understand that
<ColonelPanic001> but the potential exists
<rick_h> gah, christmas music
<rick_h> I'm not going to make it here at the coffee shop until lunch ... ugh
<ColonelPanic001> rick_h: you're really facing many problems this morning that are worse than death
<ColonelPanic001> are you sure life is still worth living?
<rick_h> ColonelPanic001: hmm, debating
<ColonelPanic001> EMTs radios and christmas music? Think carefully.
<rick_h> but UPS has toys in the mail...I need to live until Wed at least
<ColonelPanic001> bequeath them to me
<ColonelPanic001> problem solved :D
<rick_h> hah!
<ColonelPanic001> speaking of dark/morbid humor, ordered Cards Against Humanity a little while ago, came in the other day. Have to do a test play of that soon
<rick_h> heh, the first few runs through it are the best
<rick_h> so make sure to make the first ones great groups of peeps with plenty of accessory liquids
<ColonelPanic001> heh
<widox> ColonelPanic001: I hope you don't /really/ miss TE ;)
<jrwren>  i hate cubes. i refuse to wok in them. this cubbie is bad enough.
<jrwren> i like open desks everywehre.
<ColonelPanic001> widox: just the workplace
 * widox still works from home
<ColonelPanic001> If they gave us open desks up here, I'd never come here again. Laptop workin' from a library or something
<ColonelPanic001> I hear enough inane babbling here as it is
<jrwren> it depends on how many people to a room you have.
<jrwren> we have a max of about 7.
<jrwren> there are 6 in my room.
<jrwren> WALLS ARE GOOD!
<jrwren> Wall all the things!
<ColonelPanic001> I have about 20 or 30 in here probably
<ColonelPanic001> I'd kill for walls around me. And a light switch.
<jrwren> i assume for lights out?
<jrwren> tahnkfully, we 6 are lights out.
<ColonelPanic001> open desks might be okay if it were with 4-5 others who worked on similar/same things as me. Collaboration and cross-pollination would be awesome. But, that's my limit.
<ColonelPanic001> exactly
<ColonelPanic001> I hate lights
<ColonelPanic001> my monitors light up guys, stop turning on the damn lights
<jrwren> what do you do?
<jrwren> are you looking for a new job?
<ColonelPanic001> no, despite my whining right now, I love working here
<jrwren> WSU IT, right?
<ColonelPanic001> yeah
<jrwren> do you know Glen ?
<ColonelPanic001> same group as _stink_, actually
<ColonelPanic001> maybe
<ColonelPanic001> Wasik, I think his last name is?
<jrwren> does Banner stuff? I worked with him at Oakland 10 yrs ago.
<jrwren> yes, I think that is his last name.
<ColonelPanic001> yeah, not well, but we've met
<ColonelPanic001> seems like a nice guy
<jrwren> he is.
<jrwren> what kind of IT systems do you do at WSU ?
<jrwren> do they still do mirapoint email?
<ColonelPanic001> I, in particular, wrote the Android app for the uni, and now spend all my time getting a Magento installation working
<ColonelPanic001> and yeah, I think so. Merit's email, with Zimbra for the web interface
<jrwren> wtf is magento?
<ColonelPanic001> ecommerce site thing. PHP written with Zend Framework
<jrwren> wtf does wsu need with an ecommerce platform?
<ColonelPanic001> we sell stuff.
<ColonelPanic001> on the internets
<jrwren> athletics?
<ColonelPanic001> software clearinghouse, WSU Press, events, etc
<ColonelPanic001> Athletics is another one, yeah
<jrwren> interesting!
<ColonelPanic001> Institute of Gerontology is looking to sell spots at ongoing learning events, etc
<ColonelPanic001> mostly very small stores (not all, but mostly), but before we'd do all these one-off things for them, and that was just annoying. This is before I got here, so couldn't speak from experience
<ColonelPanic001> so now we can start up a new store in like, minutes, and just say "here, use this" and they can self-manage it
<ColonelPanic001> that's the goal anyway, and so far it seems pretty feasible
<ColonelPanic001> I know the Press seemed to fall in love with it when they saw it. They're looking for a new place to sell subscriptions and issues of their journals, and when they got to playing with it, started talking about just moving everything to it.
<ColonelPanic001> but I know what you mean, when it was first mentioned to me, I wondered if it was really worth the investment, too. But, now that it's coming up, departments are coming out of thw woodwork with stuff they might like to use it for, now that it's here.
<_stink_> ColonelPanic001: don't incriminate me
<ColonelPanic001> too late, CRM-boy
<ColonelPanic001> he maintains our relationships.
<_stink_> <3
<ColonelPanic001> makes them more intimate
<ColonelPanic001> he sends the Dear John letters to people that fail out.
<rick_h> hah, geeked about lightbulbs. Crazy http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/11/in-living-color-ars-reviews-the-hacker-approved-philips-hue-leds/
<snap-l> I'm not sure how you folks deal with sick kids.
<snap-l> I swear, JoDee and I are going to enter into a suicide pact if Pixel doesn't get better soon
<brousch> It can be rough
<brousch> When they are sick and pitiful and there's nothing you can do but snuggle
<snap-l> It's hard to snuggle her when she's under the bed.
<snap-l> I think we're going to need to teach her how to communicate better with us humans
<rick_h> good luck
<snap-l> hh
<snap-l> heh
<greg-g> is this an elaborate troll? http://arstechnica.com/business/2012/11/how-goatse-cx-went-from-shock-site-to-webmail-service/
<rick_h> greg-g: honeypot ftw
<rick_h> http://de2.eu.apcdn.com/full/89181.png
<snap-l> rick_h: lol
<snap-l> New CoC is up for signing
<snap-l> (And no, that's not Call of Cthulhu, Corrosion of Conformity, or god knows what else has that acronym)
<snap-l> https://launchpad.net/codeofconduct
<rick_h> I know, I deployed it :P
<snap-l> The current version is 2.0, released 2005-04-11
<rick_h> lol, well I didn't say I wrote it?
 * rick_h runs and hides
<brousch> If I don't sign it can I be politically incorrect?
<snap-l> brousch: Nope, you already signed one, so you must be on your best behavior
<brousch> dangitalltoheck
<snap-l> or you can un-sign it, but then we get to shun you.
<snap-l> Actually, we might just shun you anyway, just for grins.
<brousch> That might be good for me. Last night I dreamt of Federated Wiki
<snap-l> Commence the shun-o-tron 5000
<brousch> And in the dream I remember thinking "OMG, greg-g and snap-l are going to love this!"
<rick_h> heh, federated wiki...Google Wave fail coming
<snap-l> SHUUNNNNNNNNNNNNN
<snap-l> SHUUNNNNNNNNNNNNNanananananananananananananana
<snap-l> SHUUNNNNNNNNNNNNN
<snap-l> ;)
<jrwren> greg-g: what is up with the bacon photos on flicr? make you rown?
<greg-g> jrwren: yep :)
<greg-g> too bad we just determined that carrie is allergic to pig :/
<jrwren> buy a pork belly and smoke it?
<jrwren> Oh NO!
<greg-g> (but that just means I get to eat all the bacon!)
<jrwren> well, allah prefers she not eat the swine.
<brousch> I thought you were vegans
<greg-g> yep, well, baked it to 140/150 since I don't have a smoker
<greg-g> brousch: I was a vegetarian from 2003 to about 4 months ago :)
<brousch> Ah, then I'm not crazy
<jrwren> why eat meat again?
<brousch> Because it tastes good!
<jrwren> CA has ruined you!
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> jrwren: we're doing the paleo thing
<brousch> If god didn't want you to eat animals, why'd he make them taste so good?
<jrwren> greg-g: i've considered vege paleo.
<jrwren> brousch: in what religeon does go not want people to eat animals?
<greg-g> yeah, we don't eat a whole lot of meat really, since the meat we buy is so expensive
<brousch> I don't know. I just like the saying
<snap-l> Just FYI: Paleo is rather bunk if you think it actually dates back to diets from the paleozoic era
<snap-l> if you want to eat meat and cut carbs, call it a low carb diet.
<snap-l> But thinking you're some form of neo-caveman dietician is rubbish. :)
<snap-l> here endeth the skeptic
<greg-g> snap-l: I think you're making a lot of assumptions about what I eat with that statement
<_stink_> i had to look that term up, heh
<_stink_> you eat wooly mammoth?
<snap-l> greg-g: I figure you're more careful about what you put in your mouth tan most
<greg-g> _stink_: you wouldn't believe the farmers markets here in SF!
<_stink_> hahah
<snap-l> Just the term paleo really gets my goat and offers it up for sacrifice.
<_stink_> or goat stew.  with no flour.
<greg-g> snap-l: you're sometimes too easily offended by what other people do ;)
<snap-l> greg-g: You're damn right I am. ;)
<brousch> I am offended by how easily offended you are
<snap-l> greg-g: I just have a real difficult time with fad diets, of which paleo is the latest in a long line
<snap-l> I attribute some of the complications in my uncle's diabetes with the Atkins Diet he was on
<greg-g> alright, time to do last minute stupidness for this webinar bs
<snap-l> No proof, mind you, so I have nothing to base this on
<greg-g> atkins was shit, any diet from one single book sold in the self help section is shit, but, that doesn't mean that the research I have done re my food intake is any less valid just because I use a term that is easily recognizable to refer to a certain set of guidelines. "What Greg has decided to eat after reading a lot and pooping a lot" is'nt the best name for my diet (diet, here, is the definition number 1: what you eat.)
<jrwren> atkins should be good for diabetes. it wasn't for him?
<snap-l> greg-g: I'm sure you researched this. You're one of the more careful folks about figuring out what's edible
<snap-l> hell, you ate stuff from the weed-pile we loosely call a garden. :)
<snap-l> jrwren: I've heard that anecdotally, but I'm not sure.
<jrwren> type2 i assume?
<snap-l> He's having trouble with his eyesight, yes.
<brousch> snap-l: Your prayers have been answered! http://www.lazytruth.com/
<snap-l> Now I need one for Hotmail. ;)
<snap-l> But this is a good start in the right direction
<user-12345> Hi Group, I am new to linux. I got a question about. Create a new group Called mygroup. Hint: / usr/ sbin/ groupadd.
<user-12345> My friend is trying to this, but getting error msg
<user-12345> permission denied
<user-12345> any clue?
<brousch> sudo groupadd
<_stink_> i think people typically use the addgroup, though
<_stink_> it's a bit friendlier
<brousch> I always do sudo adduser group
<brousch> But lack of sudo is probably the issue here
<greg-g> snap-l: hehe, that was fun (eating stuff out of your uhhh, backyard) ;)
<brousch> That sounds dirty
<greg-g> to YOU
<brousch> You're the one putting the suspicious uhhh in there
<brousch> So I have to try to find out what you are insinuating
<user-12345> THank you, will ask to try that
<greg-g> oh man, I'm the worst ambassador now
<brousch> Ambassador to what?
<greg-g> this channel
<greg-g> I used to be so good at welcoming and not encouraging off-color jokes when new people were here
<snap-l> greg-g: That's why we banished you to California. :)
<snap-l> user-12345: Welcome, BTW. :)
<greg-g> heh, the best way to say GNU/Linux on a CD: http://penguin-pete.tumblr.com/post/36083435184/and-it-isnt-produced-by-murderers-like-mcafee
<brousch> nice
<jrwren> just contributed to by murderers like Hans Rieser
<greg-g> jrwren: he mentions that :)
<brousch> Did you see the blog by Mcaffee?
<brousch> http://www.whoismcafee.com/
<jrwren> oh, lol, how did I miss that.
<greg-g> wait, what, that's real?!
<jrwren> https://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/stable/linux-stable.git;a=tree;f=fs/reiserfs;h=37c1da6b2c3ee2da3e0a71aee4d3578b555f0593;hb=f4a75d2eb7b1e2206094b901be09adb31ba63681  <-- not out of the repositories or default kernel.
<snap-l> Y'know, I'd rather McAffee wasn't tried by the media before he gets even questioned.
<jrwren> snap-l: we are teh masses, its what we do.  Assange too
<snap-l> Precisely.
<snap-l> That's why we have courts, and not lynch-mobs
<snap-l> Hah, the Republic Wireless pre-order is now up
<snap-l> Too bad Ting got me first. :)
<snap-l> Ah, forgot, McAfee isn't in the US.
<snap-l> Something tells me this is going to get much, much weirder.
<jrwren> i wonder who he pissed off to frame him.
<jrwren> i wonder if anonymous will take sides and attack the belizian gvment
<brousch> jrwren: It's all on the blog
<brousch> Apparently he pissed off the Belizian president
<jrwren> nice.
<greg-g> brousch: huh (re Synder's edu reform article)
<greg-g> the one part I'm not sure of is getting rid of summer vacation!
<greg-g> oh, right, that was on twitter....
<brousch> summer vacation is useless
<brousch> It's for farmers
<greg-g> that's the POINT
<brousch> Kids sit around playing video games at home all day
<greg-g> (not the farmers, it being useless)
<greg-g> yeah, and..... ;)
<snap-l> Big problem is the funding for schools will get distributed so only a handful of schools will get all of the money
<greg-g> actually, I see your point, I'm mostly joking, I just have great memories of summer camping trips
<brousch> There is still a lot of time off, it's just spread out more
<snap-l> I can see some districts getting completely shut out
<brousch> Yeah, I'm as sure about the funding part
<greg-g> brousch: can you be my lazyweb and find me a url of the actual proposal?
<snap-l> Of course it'll get spun that the teachers are so wedded to summer vacation, and pretty much gloss over the funding
<brousch> greg-g: It's a report, so I don't know if they published it
<greg-g> ah
<snap-l> And it's wxyz, so lord knows what it actually says. ;)
<greg-g> hahaha
<greg-g> I just saw the teaser for "Why would anyone want to give money to a politician, but keep it a secret?
<snap-l> TV news = crap.
<greg-g> Read more: http://www.wxyz.com/dpp/news/governor-snyder-report-proposes-michigan-education-overhaul#ixzz2Chsv1s60
<greg-g> FUCK YOU FUCKING COPY/PASTE BUFFER MODIFYING JAVASCRIPT
<greg-g> that shit is everywhere on news sites
<greg-g> thanks for annoying your fucking users, assholes
 * greg-g is especially annoyed by this stuff because it is sold as a snake oil as a way to "track use and reuse of CC licensed materials"
<brousch> hehehe
<snap-l> greg-g: You mean the pop-up ads for monkey-punching give us your gold we'll turn it into chocolate aren't enough of a nut-kicker?
<greg-g> snap-l: I have adblock for that :)
<greg-g> some javascript is good, though, so I don't want to block it all by default :/
<snap-l> It's the only way I'll head to the Detroit News. (adblock)
<brousch> Better one from wdiv http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/20139266/mich-plan-would-give-money-for-early-graduation
<snap-l> I went to detnews without adblock on my parents machine, and my ees bled.
<snap-l> eyes, even
<snap-l> brousch: That's WJBK
<jrwren> NOSCRIPT block it all by default, allow per site as necessary.
<snap-l> WDIV is "clickondetroit"
<brousch> blah, whatever
<snap-l> Also, love detnews, or "what the current pro sports team and college teams are doing, mixed with auto news"
<brousch> greg-g: Links to drafts of the bill here http://oxfordfoundationmi.com/michigan-education-finance-act-updates/michigan-public-education-finance-project-draft/
<snap-l> as opposed to the Freep, which is "what the current pro sports team and college teams are doing, mixed with Mitch Albom pretending he's a profound writer"
<greg-g> brousch: thanks man!
<jrwren> pretty sure many days on new york times best seller list means he is a well sold writer, not a profound writer.
<jrwren> although having read a book by him, its obvious he is trying for profound :)
<snap-l> jrwren: There's a lot of bleed-over into his column
 * snap-l wonders if he could get on the NY Times best seller list for "the book of shit"
<snap-l> and get some gigs on talk shows talking about "the book of shit"
<brousch> yes
<snap-l> What is it about? It's a book of shit.
<jrwren> IMO you just described half of the books on said list.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-11-20
<snap-l> ttp://thedailywtf.com/Articles/PHPTXTDB.aspx
<rick_h> OMG OMG https://twitter.com/UnicompKeyboard/status/270875937808207872
<rick_h> TAKE MY $$$$$$$$
<brousch> That's a lot of $ for a keyboard
<rick_h> not really. My unicomps are some of the cheaper ones I've gotten
<rick_h> < $100
<snap-l> Morning
<snap-l> rick_h: That doesn't mean they're making a 10less model
<rick_h> snap-l: oh come on...I've got my hopes all way way up
<rick_h> don't crush me now
<snap-l> rick_h: I just don't want you having to figure out how to schedule a delivery that never had a "buy it" button.
<rick_h> snap-l: lol
<dzho> rick_h: 10less?
<rick_h> dzho: yea, without the numpad on the side
<rick_h> like http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=leopold,tenkeyless&pid=fc200rcab
<rick_h> but with the awesomeness of buckling springs
<brousch> rick_h: I was going to snark on your launchpad post, but then I read it and it's quite awesome
<rick_h> brousch: yea, why I posted it. I tend to try to stay away from the LP flame bait
<rick_h> I've got no illusions
<rick_h> but that is the one giant use case I keep preaching
<brousch> Your lack of indiscriminate pimping is what prompted me to read it ;)
<rick_h> hah
<dzho> ah
<jrwren> 10less meaning less the 10key keypad, right?
<rick_h> jrwren: right
<rick_h> I prefer that size for work but prefer the buckling springs feel so I get cranky that there's not my 'fav' keyboard out there
<jrwren> only $80. that isn't bad at all.
<rick_h> and unicomp keeps hinting they're thinking of making a 10less. I guess they did years ago
<jrwren> that is cheaper than anything with cherry switches
<rick_h> yea, why I don't get people spending $130 or so for the das
<jrwren> because teh das is cooler.
<rick_h> right, my cherry boards were all more $$, even the 10less ones
<jrwren> its CALLED DAS KEYBAORD FFS!
<rick_h> *sigh* crappy POS ... :P
<jrwren> be sure to mention it if they come out with a 10less, I'll pick one up.
<rick_h> oh you'll see me singing from the roof tops as I click "buy buy buy"
<snap-l> jrwren: You'll hear the sighs of a thousand UPS drivers when that happens
<rick_h> hah! only one. I don't need a pair for work/home
<rick_h> just one for home, maybe one for travel/backup
<rick_h> ahhhh, a unicomp 10less when doing sprints for a week
<rick_h> how awesome that would be
<snap-l> and another for the kitchen, one for the bathroom, one to dry off on after showeing
<rick_h> well they are pretty impervious. Little water won't hurt.
<snap-l> One to sleep on in the middle of the night so each little spring can sing sweet springy lullabies as rick_h drifts to sleep
 * snap-l just heard another sale after that remoark
<rick_h> one for my wife to smash me over the head with so I keep quiet
 * snap-l sent a note to Apress to ask them to add .mobi and .epub books to my account for the old books I only had as PDFs
<rick_h> ah nice
 * rick_h crosses fingers for you
<snap-l> They already did it
<rick_h> nice!
<snap-l> Asked them to do it for Coders at Work
<snap-l> Of course, the chances of me reading PHP Objects, or DJango 1.0 books is remote
<snap-l> but nice to have them, regardless. ;)
<snap-l> Their book library makes me love O'Reilly's setup all the more, though
<brousch> That's what jrwren thought too, now look at him all up in Django 1.0
<snap-l> it's seriously a paged list of books in no particular order.
<jrwren> anyone know a good valgrind tutorial?
<jrwren> which django books?
<jrwren> i haven't done django in months, but I'm still looking for a decent book on it. IME there are no good books on it.
<jrwren> just poor books that are better than nothing.
<rick_h> they're updating one of the big ones
<snap-l> jrwren: These are at best 1.1 books
<jrwren> snap-l: so... Alchin's Pro Django ?
<rick_h> http://goo.gl/xBdeD
<rick_h> wow
<rick_h> HP blames accounting frauds preceding HPâs acquisition of Autonomy?
<snap-l> jrwren: Definitive Guide to Django, Practical Django Projects
<snap-l> I think I got out of Django before Pro Django was released.
<snap-l> or rather, rick_h got out of Django, and I followed. ;)
 * snap-l is just a rick_h sycophant. ;)
<snap-l> rick_h: I think that Autonomy acquisition thing is a straw to soften the blow
<snap-l> They're getting their asses handed to them
<rick_h> no kidding, 8B with a B?
<snap-l> Problem is, they need something new to drive customers
<snap-l> they have no tablet strategy that's worth anything
<snap-l> They have laptops which are regarded as one step up from shit
<snap-l> They have a printer business that they've let turn into a consumer race for the bottom
<snap-l> And they can't compete on price
<rick_h> but that's all business they're supposed to be dumping out the back window
<snap-l> I'm not sure about their consulting business
<snap-l> and their server business is long in the tooth, last I checked
<snap-l> When you dump your core competencies, what do you have left?
<snap-l> IBM at least has mainframes that aren't going anywhere
<snap-l> and thousands of consultants ready to take your money
<brousch> The Touchpad makes a nice android tablet
<snap-l> and the Blackberry makes a great doorstop.
<snap-l> Problem is they've let their quality slide, and they're trying to make it up in ink sales
<snap-l> (on the printer side)
<snap-l> And their laptops have become also-rans
<snap-l> Although it looks like the Autonomy merger was outright fraud
<snap-l> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324352004578130712448913412.html
<snap-l> " The year-earlier period included $885 million of charges tied to H-P's decision to wind down its webOS device business following the acquisition of Palm Inc."
<rick_h> yea, but 8B
<rick_h> so they'd need some 10 divisinos to wind down for 8B
<snap-l> Yeah, just highlighting something in the article I found interesting
<snap-l> Thing is, until they revamp themselves as a company that can make higher-end, quality machines, they're going to be competing against companies that can whip out $200 chrome books
<snap-l> They're in deep shit
<snap-l> with a capital S
<jrwren> OH! HP.
<jrwren> I couldn't figure out who you were talking about.
<snap-l> jrwren: Sorry. :)
<jrwren> i agree with everything snap-l said.
<jrwren> i just hope they spinn off their med devices div.
<jrwren> their spectrometers seem reasonable.
<jrwren> their microscopes seem reasonable.
<snap-l> jrwren: Who would buy it? GE? Siemens?
<rick_h> sony
<snap-l> Sony needs medical devices like they need a hole in their head
<snap-l> problem is Korea caught up
<snap-l> (S. Korea)
<snap-l> Last few hospital visits, I've seen GE and Philips devices
<jrwren> GE, Siemens, LG or Samsung. Not sure GE needs the tech, but maybe buy it for patents and customer base.
<jrwren> I'd like to see it stay american owned, so hopefully GE can get it on the cheap.
<jrwren> 40k line output from valgrind. YAY
<snap-l> jrwren: Awesome.
<jrwren> amature tip: don't valgrind openssl
<snap-l> That's both sage advice, and a little frightening
<rick_h> snap-l: http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/cat-medicalproducts/
<snap-l> That doesn't surprise me. That's part of their competencies.
<rick_h> right, so I think sony should buy HP's medical stuff
<rick_h> and compete with the GE/etc
<snap-l> They'd be crazy to do so
<snap-l> Sony is doing horribly
<rick_h> <3 http://craigkerstiens.com/2012/11/17/how-i-write-sql/
<rick_h> ok this is pretty cool
<rick_h> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/phorce/phorce-the-worlds-first-smart-bag
<rick_h> would love a batter sleeve to put into my backpack that would charge up things
<rick_h> /batter/battery
<brousch> Looks like only Apple devices judging by the picture
<rick_h> that's what it's setup for yea. but it's usb
<rick_h> https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/264/048/8914a378960b1eebeabbdbf3f9998b49_large.JPG?1353013912 shows the ports to plug into
<rick_h> hmm, maybe get one of these and run a default cable through my bag http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008TXFPS2/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00#productPromotions
<widox> rick_h: no laptop charging though
<widox> I can charge my phone 6 times though!
<rick_h> widox: yea, thinking charing mifi, tablet, cell phone
<rick_h> now my phone is normally in my pocket, but if I pre-run a cable through to where I put my tablet/mifi that would be cool
<rick_h> my current charger thing only does one device at a time
<widox> ah
<widox> that would be my biggest annoyance- wires all over
<rick_h> yea, why I liked the idea of the bag with the wires pre-run
<rick_h> wonder if I could run something that could work in my current bag
<rick_h> there is a headphone cable run in there hmm
<widox> sure, if you don't mind making some cuts in the lining
<rick_h> yea, I really <3 my backpack but love the idea of built in charging ready to go when traveling
<widox> ugh, hating UPS right now
<rick_h> losing your stuff?
<widox> "1st delivery attempt failed" my ass, been here all day!
<rick_h> it needs to be signed?
<widox> speaking of tablets, its my nexus 7 :)
<widox> yeah
<rick_h> ooh, shiny
<rick_h> you get the new 32gb?
<widox> I just went 16GB
<widox> didn't think I'll need 32GB
<rick_h> I filled my 16gb when I went to copenhagen
<widox> :-/
<rick_h> movies for the trip though. Once I got back went back down pretty low
<rick_h> I want to get the 32GB but oh well. Also read the review that the 32GB was faster. Not sure if the new model is faster across all sizes
<widox> huh. I  wonder why
<rick_h> http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/11/googles-nexus-7-gets-a-fresh-coat-of-paint-for-the-holidays/
<rick_h> their thought was possibly faster memory
<rick_h> "the tablet's memory speeds are improved quite a bit over the entry-level 8GB version, due perhaps to the use of faster NAND or because higher-density devices can increase speeds by performing more read and write operations simultaneously (a process also known as interleaving). Read speeds are up by around 33 percent, while write speeds are about twice as fast as they are on the 8GB version."
<widox> interesting
<rick_h> yea
<rick_h> trying hard to be happy with what I've got heh
<widox> well, we can compare. if I ever receive it...
<rick_h> grrr, get my patent hating blood boiling http://goo.gl/8NLgM
<brousch> rick_h: You could switch entirely to the tablet - dump the laptop.
<brousch> Native Ubuntu on Nexus 7
<rick_h> ummm...no
<rick_h> <3 my x230 and never going to give it up
<rick_h> except for a x240
<rick_h> or 50
<brousch> Nexus7 + one of those keyboards you love
<rick_h> nope
<jjesse> just run everything in the cloud dude
<jjesse> the cloud is the answer for everything
<brousch> Transformer Prime? 1920x1080, keyboard included?
<rick_h> I can't do that
<rick_h> I have a bunch of stuff in the cloud but local dev local ftw
<greg-g> local still wins out over "cloud" until we have permanent/resilient/high bandwidth/cheap connections
<brousch> Why high bandwidth if all you're doing is sshing to a server?
<greg-g> I, you know, take photos, create movies/videos, listen to music, etc etc
<rick_h> greg-g: you giant corner case you :P
<greg-g> :)
<rick_h> take photos...hah! I mean, who really takes those any more
<rick_h> After all the govt does that for us :P
<greg-g> "with your phone right?" "uh, no, I have a camera, it's better than a phone" "a what?"
<rick_h> just request the copies under FOIA
<greg-g> hah
<greg-g> "Hi, I'd like some of my most cherished memories, can you send them along to me on a DVD? No wait, just a cloud hosted platform I can log in and you can log what I watch, which parts I skip, and which I re-watch. Yeah, that's it."
<brousch> Why do you need a picture? Just search for it on Google. I'm sure someone already took it and uploaded it
<greg-g> brousch: says the man who has youtube videos of his son playing drums
<greg-g> there were already plenty of those before you, you know ;)
<brousch> I know. I got them from a torrent
<greg-g> haha
<brousch> Kid looks enough like mine
<Blazeix> a little bit of cosmetic surgery will save you the trouble of having to take your own videos
<rick_h> yea, real time video overlay ftw
<rick_h> think the google hangout extras that put a hat on your head, but with your son's face
<snap-l> Please don't give me ideas.
<rick_h> snap-l: any kitty news?
<juped> yeah i've been following knews on twitter as well
<snap-l> Yeah, she is out of surgery
<snap-l> Kidney is fine. When she went in for her spay, something wasn't tied off right, so it rubbed against her ureter
<snap-l> and she had a reaction to the sutures they used.
<snap-l> so what they did was attacht eh ureter to a different location on the bladder
<snap-l> which, hopefully will mean healthy two-kidney functioning kitty
<snap-l> We'll likely see her tomorrow, and hopefully if everything is functioning properly, be able to take her home Sunday.
<rick_h> warranty work?
<snap-l> ell, the Cat Practice is paying for the specialist to take care of her
<snap-l> so, in a sense, yes.
<rick_h> cool
<snap-l> Yeah, I don't hink we could have afforded it otherwise.
<snap-l> JoDee has been an emotional wreck over this, so good news is good.
<rick_h> yea, very good
<greg-g> yay, glacier support in git-annex! http://git-annex.branchable.com/special_remotes/glacier/
<greg-g> http://git-annex.branchable.com/design/assistant/blog/day_137__Glacier/
<greg-g> I love this line: "(Well, I think it works... Since it takes 4 hours to get data out, which is longer than the time it took me to sign up for Glacier and write the special remote ... I've yet to fully test it!)"
<rick_h> heh, that one is going to be funto write a functional test for isn't it
<Blazeix> what's the best way to do rdfa in html? just add rel="prefix:property" to my markup?
<Blazeix> there's a ton of information out there, but it seems like a lot of it conflicts
<Blazeix> this might be a greg-g question :)
<greg-g> Blazeix: generally yeah, that's right. Some are built in (ie: don't need the prefix)
<greg-g> http://www.w3.org/TR/rdfa-lite/
<Blazeix> so everything on here is built-in, right? http://www.w3.org/2011/rdfa-context/rdfa-1.1
<greg-g> in that first group, yeah
<Blazeix> ok. so in html5 the only non-standard attributes are data-*. does rdfa[-lite] just ignore that?
<greg-g> well, I guess the question is whether the parser you're using ignores that
<greg-g> various parsers are idiosyncratic
<Blazeix> right, html5-wise i really only care about browsers. the most strict parser will probably be the rdfa parser
 * greg-g nods
<Blazeix> ok, thanks. time to rdfa the hell out of my company's website.
<greg-g> :) awesome
<Blazeix> i attended a talk about sparql that blew my mind. a really neat concept
<greg-g> yeah :)
<greg-g> yay semantic web! ;)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-11-21
<jjesse> evening :)
<snap-l> Evening
<rick_h> .party
<jjesse> sounds like it
<rick_h> yea, something like that
<snap-l> Man, realized I didin't have Festival installed on this machine
<snap-l>  which means all of the efforts for installing the voices will need to be duplicated
<snap-l> yay
<rick_h> ssshhhhhhh
<jjesse> i agree it is too loud here
<snap-l> Heh
<widox> rick_h: got my nexus 7
<rick_h> widox: awesome!
<jjesse> l0ve my nexus 7
<jjesse> rooting it was pretty easy
<widox> doing the android update as we speak
<widox> pretty much don't want to work  now :)
<rick_h> just say you're browser testing
<rick_h> :)
<widox> gesh- like 3 updates here. 4.1.1 -> 4.1.2 -> 4.2
<rick_h> hah
<rick_h> warning, 4.2 had some issues
<rick_h> I can't wait for 4.2.1, especially the BT issues...and I guess December is important
<snap-l> I agreed to be JoDee's graduate student, so now I have homework. :)
<rick_h> lol
<rick_h> CHC night is a good night for homework
<rick_h> ask derekv
<snap-l> Yeah, that's why I got the "homework"
<widox> rick_h: what issues did you have?
<rick_h> bluetooth, lack of december in the calendar
<rick_h> I use it to stream podcasts and books and such over a bluetooth headphones/speaker and it gets choppy if the audio app isn't in the foreground
<rick_h> that's the big one driving me nuts currently
<widox> haha, no Decemeber. that's great
<brousch> screw december!
<snap-l> Yeah, I think that's one of my favorite bugs. :)
<rick_h> It is a kind of fun big bug. Then again I don't usually do tests that ever month appears when I have stuff like that
<Blazeix> man, if it weren't for a 3:30pm meeting, i'd consider just calling it a day and leaving work.
<Blazeix> day before thanksgiving is brutal. no will to work
<widox> ++
<widox> a few on my team are leaving at 3
<widox> so tempting...
<rick_h> done here... see ya tonight
<Blazeix> urgh, jealous
<derekv> If I cut (kill) a line in emacs, then without moving the cursor, paste (yank) that line, nothing changes
<derekv> If I do that in vi, the lines are switched
<derekv> weird editor is weird.
<Blazeix> i actually like that. swapping lines is a somewhat common task
<Blazeix> if i realize i didn't want to delete the line, i'll just undo
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-11-22
<derekv> alt+up alt+down swaps lines in emacs, so its actually fewer keystrokes :)
<rick_h> ddp (3 keys vs 4) :P
<rick_h> is up/down not the arrow keys?
<rick_h> otherwise that's just crap
<derekv> alt+up swaps current line with the one above
<rick_h> right, but by 'up' do you mean 'up arrow'? Or some other key that means 'up'?
<derekv> <up-arrow"
<rick_h> and yea, I did both so you're right I can't count right
<derekv> there's probably some other key for it if you didn't like/have arrow keys
<rick_h> die arrows die. They should be removed from the keyboard :P
<derekv> i like them
<derekv> on my kinesis
<rick_h> true, they're better on there I suppose
<derekv> so, many keys in emacs are stupid though
<derekv> RMS thought that all the keys should stand for something, rather than how they are posisioned
<derekv> so i think cursor forward is ctrl+f
<derekv> i just use arrow
<rick_h_> yay back
<snap-l> rick_h_: What's the link to that site for SF books?
<snap-l> OK, this is fucking weird
<snap-l> Apparently my machine decided to try shutting down without my knowledge
<snap-l> and locked up
<snap-l> Fucking UPS
<rick_h_> happy thanksgiving
<rick_h_> and die cats die
<_stink_> haha
<_stink_> what did they do?
<snap-l> http://bandcamp.com/craigmaloney
<snap-l> rick_h_: Ahem. ;)
<snap-l> There will be no dying cats on my watch
<snap-l> Oh, nice, Bandcamp now has wishlists
<snap-l> aka: fewer openmetalcast links in bookie
<rick_h_> looks like wife shut one up in the guest room overnight on accident
<rick_h_> the carpet by the door is going to need some love after getting some claw treatment
<snap-l> Oh noes
<rick_h_> thus my unhappiness with the species this morning
<brousch> beat it until it understands
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-11-23
<snap-l> evening
<derekv> I need something light to read, fluff but not crap hopefully
<rick_h_> I just finished listening to the Troy rising series
<rick_h_> it's pretty ok fluff for techies
<snap-l> Howdy.
<derekv> i read the first couple discworld books, those are pretty good
<derekv> light fare
<jhansonxi> I would recommend Lovecraft but it's not light (in any sense).
<rick_h_> morning
<snap-l> Morning
<jjesse-home> morning
<jjesse-home> well almost afternoon :)
<snap-l> And now it's afternoon. :)
<rick_h_> and evening :P
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-11-24
<jjesse> man it got cold out
<rick_h_> yea, we started out outside today and then realized the boy had turned blue
<rick_h_> was 44 this morning and went down hill quick all day
<jjesse> was amazed at the temp difference between raking leaves this morning before 10 am and tonight when we went to watch the christmas tree lighting
<rick_h_> yea, I bet
<rick_h_> r/jacket/winter coat and hat
<snap-l> Yeah, it's definitely cold out there
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> Today is errand day
<snap-l> car in for a powertrain inspection, then possibly a cat retrieval
<brousch> Why did the mission impossible music just start playing in my head?
<rick_h_> hah
<snap-l> I'm thinking more James Bond, but I'll run with it. :)
<brousch> Shedd Aquarium went well yesterday
<brousch> We got there in 2.5 hours
<jrwren> was it busy?
<brousch> It was empty until about noon, then it ramped up to normal busyness
<snap-l> We're going to be picking up a cat today. Woo hoo!
<brousch> Heh, remember my dream from last week? http://www.reddit.com/r/AskTechnology/comments/13pmka/is_a_fully_distributed_wikipedia_possible/
<jjesse-home> brousch: 2.5 hours to shedd from grand rapids?
<brousch> Yeah, no traffic
<snap-l> Kitten is home. Wooo!
<jjesse-home> congrats snap-l
<snap-l> jjesse-home: Thank you
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-11-25
<snap-l> http://raghavt.blogspot.com/2012/11/psql-client-can-be-chess-board-now.html <- I <3 PostgreSQL
<derekv> I can define functions with parameter binding.
<snap-l> Morning
<rick_h_> morn
<brousch> snap-l: How's the kittay?
<snap-l> SHe's sleeping
<snap-l> Seems to be a marked improvement over last time.
<snap-l> She got out last night from the kitchen (where we can make sure she doesn't jump on anything)
<snap-l> JoDee put her on our bed, and she tried like crazy to get comfortable
<snap-l> but the dippy cone keeps getting in the way.
<snap-l> jcastro_: That GNOME article is pure click-bait
<snap-l> was re: https://plus.google.com/113169713749496726739/posts/3Gz32Tvynkp
<jcastro_> heh
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-11-18
<jrwren> i used to live next to or at Beacon Hill apts. near there.
<gamerchick02> cool
<rick_h_> phew, sure is windy. Adjusted stuff on the back deck. Hopefully everything stays put and the trees all stay upright
<jrwren> VERY windy.
<jrwren> OMG< you just made me scared that the cotton wood out back is going to fall on my house.
<gamerchick02> it's insane windy
<gamerchick02> i'm surprised the power hasn't gone out
<cmaloney> I'm grateful it hasn't gone out yet.
<cmaloney> OK, going to power off. Not taking any chances.
<gamerchick02> so am i.
<waf> power on, forever. i like to live dangerously.
<rick_h_> hah woot
<rick_h_> everything here survived well enough. Grill cover in the neighbor's yard, and movd the car topper storage thing off the deck
<rick_h_> but better than I thought. I was expecting some tree limb fall'age pretty bad
<cmaloney> Yeah, we managed to not have a whole lot of crazy in the front yard.
<brousch> Apparently enough power is out that my son's school is closed
<cmaloney> Wow.
<ColonelPanic001> the signal light at Woodward and the I-94 service drive is out
<ColonelPanic001> nothing very unusual about that though, that's about a quarterly event
<brousch> Mostly we just had a lot of deep road puddles due to leaf-choked storm drains
<rick_h_> yea, I've got to clear my drain out again after yesterday
<cmaloney> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/loco-contacts/2013-November/006555.html
<cmaloney> If anyone is interested.
<jrwren> grill cover was off here too, but the ties on 1 side were still there.
<cmaloney> I <3 it when I whang my head on my cubicle
<cmaloney> seriously I have no idea how I did this
<cmaloney> sitting down, hit my head on the shelf
<greg-g> skillz
<cmaloney> mad ones at that
<brousch> I'm not sure how I should read "whang my head"
<cmaloney> Make loud noise with my head upon the shelf of my cube.
<cmaloney> http://www.thefreedictionary.com/whang
<cmaloney> The whang of chung. ;)
<cmaloney> Which apparently mean s "Yellow Bell" in Mandarin Chinese and is the first note of the Chinese classical scale
<cmaloney> Thank you, Wikipedia, the only Wiki I want to use.
<brousch> Too bad it's PHP :(
<greg-g> you don't need to care about that
<brousch> Unless I want my own wiki
<waf> man, http://osrc.dfm.io is pretty cool
<waf> they've updated it since last time I looked, adding 'friend' relations
<waf> it detected that i should be friends with cmaloney
<waf> then when i clicked on cmaloney's name, it said "It seems like Craig isâor should beâfriends with Rick Harding. With this in mind, it's worth noting that Rick is more of a Python aficionado."
<rick_h_> lol http://osrc.dfm.io/mitechie
<rick_h_> "It seems like Rick is-or should be-friends with Craig Maloney"
<rick_h_> that's awesome
<cmaloney> http://osrc.dfm.io/craigmaloney
<waf> "Rick seems to be a pretty serious Python expert"
<cmaloney> OK, I think this thing is on crack
<waf> really? i think it's pretty accurate
<waf> no magic going on, it's easy to figure out the algorithm
<waf> but still cool
<cmaloney> ;)
<rick_h_> lol at 9pm
<rick_h_> boy goes to bed by 8 and now it's hacking time
<rick_h_> top 45% of active python users? /me is a little reality checked
<cmaloney> Dude you are a focusing machine
<cmaloney> You shine with laser-like precision
<rick_h_> If you had asked me I'd have figured I'd be top 25%
<cmaloney> I feel like disco-ball by comparison.
<rick_h_> but then again, it's not picking up work stuff in launchpad/bzr, not that it should count as it's not a lot of more useful stuff
<cmaloney> WEll, and you've balanced a lot between Javascript and Python
<rick_h_> true
<cmaloney> You're not 100% Python, so it probably counts against that score.
<rick_h_> it's all good :) just noting of the things in there that jumps out
<waf> i bet if it ran a linter on the code it'd bump you up a bit
<cmaloney> I'll note that I don't have any percentage. ;)
<cmaloney> hah
<cmaloney> or pep8.
<rick_h_> well it's active as well. It's counting LoC and such
<cmaloney> There is also an obvious connection between Craig and Will Fuqua, allan bailey, Sean Vieira, and rhokk
<rick_h_> heh, /me forces to close window and not look up everyone else mentioned as being similar to
<waf> haha, i already did that for myself. i've yet to follow them, though
<cmaloney> I think the noon-time comment on mine is related to the Bookie sprint. ;)
<rick_h_> hah
 * cmaloney wonders when he pushed to a Java repo
<rick_h_> wow! http://r.bmark.us/u/c35b8efb1c1197
<cmaloney> I hate my generation
<cmaloney> Seriously, we're the biggest bunch of wankers when it comes to child-care.
<cmaloney> http://industryedge.nationalhardwareshow.com/2013/11/bonaverde-coffee-changers-all-in-one-coffee-maker
<cmaloney> rick_h_: ^^
<rick_h_> cmaloney: heh, saw that. kind of cool
<brousch> heh, osrc is kind of fun
<brousch> pretty accurate
<brousch> Kind of creepy too
<cmaloney> yep
<cmaloney> You don't realize how many signals you generate.
<brousch> And this just looks at github?
<cmaloney> ostensibly
<cmaloney> possibly anything else you have connected to github
<brousch> "Ben seems to be a pretty seriousÂ PythonÂ expert"
<brousch> oh yeah
<brousch> Scheme wtf? I have no recollection of that
<cmaloney> I don't remember Java either
<cmaloney> although I don't think it mentioned Ruby in mine.
<cmaloney> I made a push to Tracks dammit. My geode must be acknowledged. ;)
<trevlar> "epic objective-c coder" ha!
<cmaloney> https://codeclimate.com/
<cmaloney> Interesting.
<cmaloney> Not for Python. Apparently we don't need it with Pep8. ;)
<rick_h_> yea, I'm curious about that. I want to toss that at some of our JS sometime
<cmaloney> jrwren: When will Hacker News suck? When won't it suck?
<cmaloney> And Reddit has a little immunity to that with the voting system
<rick_h_> areas of reddit already suck. It's the communities fault
<rick_h_> good communities will stay good, sucky ones will suck
<rick_h_> and reply with http://johnmurray.io/log/2013/11/17/Read-Less-HN.md
<rick_h_> to the HN side
<cmaloney> Saw that one float by
<cmaloney> And couldn't agree more on the good communities / bad communities
<greg-g> fuck the grain requirement for kids lunches
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea, that one would bug me a bit. I mean, I guess the parents know the rules/how it works and choose/put their kinds in there.
<greg-g> but what if you don't eat grains?
<rick_h_> but man, I don't think it'd fly around here at all
<cmaloney> http://37signals.com/remote/workcanwait
<rick_h_> ruh roh, /me is afraid to look
<cmaloney> What if your kid is allergic to gluten
<cmaloney> It's SFW
<rick_h_> well I mean I'm sure there are medical allowances and all that
<rick_h_> I took issue in a more general sense
<rick_h_> "sorry, we're having apple sauce with dinner, he's not getting a fruit at lunch today so shove off"
<cmaloney> I guess my other question is "why are they checking kids lunches?"
<cmaloney> Seriously.
<rick_h_> well it looked like it was a law
<cmaloney> Again, why are they checking kids lunches
<cmaloney> That should be between kids and parents
<greg-g> yeah
<cmaloney> if I want to send my kid to school with 20 hostess twinkies to trade for other kids food, I should have that right
<cmaloney> God those fuckers were like cigarettes in prison.
<brousch> Wasn't that in Canada?
<brousch> And I can't read HN. It is so poorly laid out like 5 year old made the website
<jrwren> cmaloney: i said "it is a trap!"
<jrwren> digg and slashdot both had voting.
<jrwren> well, not in story posts in slashdot case.
<jcastro> I <3 HN
<jrwren> I wno't say I <3 it, but I am glad it is there.
<jrwren> jcastro: are you ready for this week!!!!
<jcastro> hmmm?
<jrwren> UDS?
<jcastro> oh
<jrwren> lol
<jcastro> I was like "I hope there's nothing else on this week, I have UDS, heh."
<cmaloney> Slashdot tried some story voting thing with their tagging system
<cmaloney> it was garbage.
<rick_h_> cmaloney: take sports and I'll look forward to the Dr Who ownership/trademark lawsuits shutting it down :P
<cmaloney> It's the BBC. IT's immune to your logic
<rick_h_> fine, something you enjoy must be able to be caught up in legal shennanigans
<cmaloney> Muhahahahaha
<cmaloney> Shit, everything I love is caught in legal shenannigans
<cmaloney> Music - RIAA
<cmaloney> Video Games - Copyright
<cmaloney> Books - Copyright / strange licenses
<cmaloney> They're being silly, and they need to knock it off
<cmaloney> but I'm sure they'll double-down on idiocy.
<greg-g> it's not even noon on Monday and we've had an outage this week
<greg-g> god dammit
<greg-g> (our search cluster)
<cmaloney> Honestly it's sabre-rattling. I'd be highlt surprised if they followed through
<cmaloney> greg-g: Solr?
<greg-g> I am soooo going to enjoy my week off next week
<greg-g> cmaloney: elastic
<cmaloney> Fun
<rick_h_> greg-g: search isn't important, it's like logging
<rick_h_> who cares
<greg-g> haha
<rick_h_> :P
<cmaloney> But how will I find my CC-licensed pr0n?
<greg-g> true, commons.wikimedia.org is the biggest Freely license porn collection there is
<brousch> just use google!
<greg-g> yeah, they index us immediately pretty much
<cmaloney> I'm sure there's a bat-signal that gets sent out wherever something changes on Wikipedia
<greg-g> so, according to our 2nd in command ops architect (well, not counting dir of ops), we've had 12 outages in as many days :( :( :( :(
<greg-g> (outages including slowness issues)
<brousch> I haven't noticed anything
<brousch> You're doing great work, greg-g!
<greg-g> they're mostly short
<greg-g> brousch: yeah, no shit
<greg-g> :(
<brousch> I was serious
<greg-g> well, maybe
<greg-g> site issues kinda fall on me, being release manager and all
<greg-g> but most of these weren't something I have control over
<greg-g> this morning's was, kinda, we tried to migrate to some new search boxes, which is fine, but it wasn't done the right way (order of operations and all)
<greg-g> and it failed
<greg-g> I wasn't on point, but I approved the migration
<cmaloney> https://twitter.com/codinghorror/status/402534227867996161/photo/1
<greg-g> cmaloney++ #ohwait
<cmaloney> ;)
<cmaloney> You receive one imaginary internet point
<jcastro> hey cmaloney
<jcastro> got anything awesome to post on the michigan section of discourse?
<jcastro> pics from the last party or something?
<rick_h_> cmaloney: you've inspired my personal blacklist of domains, thanks!
<rick_h_> jcastro: I've got to say, discourse just looks like forums to me :/
<rick_h_> jcastro: with more whitespace and flat buttons
<jcastro> rick_h_, you'll have some vim keybinds soon sir
<rick_h_> heh
<jcastro> I am being serious!
<jcastro> can you post an announcement to CHC in the michigan section though?
<rick_h_> jcastro: sure thing
<jcastro> <3
<jcastro> rick_h_, also in the desktop section do a "check out my bookie project" or something
 * rick_h_ goes looking for the michigan subforum...i mean category
<jcastro> fire up some discussion
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Which domain got the honor?
<cmaloney> jcastro: Um, we got verified. :)
<rick_h_> omgubuntu and a related one :)
<cmaloney> And I took two photos of the last release party that didn't turn out great.
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Yeah, I re-subscribed again to planet.ubuntu.com. I think it's not going to last too long.
<brousch> We don't have Ubuntu Release Parties any more. All we have are remembrance parties. "Remember 8.04? That was a good release. Them good old days."
<cmaloney> brousch: Today we have regret parties.
<jcastro> I don't remember any nice things about 8.04
<cmaloney> 10.04 was pretty solid
<cmaloney> 12.04 is proving solid.
<cmaloney> I'm looking forward to 14.04
<brousch> LTS is the best!
<jcastro> 12.04 was amazing
<jcastro> it'll be tough to beat
<cmaloney> Outside of a few NVidia glitches I'm pretty pleased
<brousch> I haven't found anything to compel me to upgrade from 12.04 yet
<cmaloney> Me either
<brousch> Though I still plan on trying Ubuntu Touch on my Transformer Infinity. Maybe that will convince me to use Unity
<cmaloney> although Crossover apparently did something strange with dpkg that made their latest debian packages 13.04 and higher
<cmaloney> so I had to do a root install with their installer.
<cmaloney> Unity reminds me of Windowmaker
<cmaloney> and I liked Windowmaker a lot
<jcastro> windowmaker with the dock on the left
<cmaloney> I had it on the right, but yeah.
<cmaloney> http://windowmaker.org/FAQ.php?chapter=3#83
<cmaloney> I don't have any of my old screenshots
<brousch> Android and Windows 8 are better with touch than with a mouse. Maybe Unity will be a similar experience
<brousch> Sorry, Ubuntu Touch
<cmaloney> http://www.gozer.org/window_maker/irc/snapl
<cmaloney> Hah!
<brousch> You really have been a Linux nerd forever
<cmaloney> Yeah
<jrwren> 12.10 beat 12.04
<jrwren> 13.04 beat those.
<jrwren> 13.10 beat those
<jrwren> :p
<jrwren> a modern uwsgi is a good reason to upgrade from 12.04
<cmaloney> jrwren: You know the difference between 12.04 and all the rest of those?
<jrwren> cmaloney: i know a few, yes.
<cmaloney> You know the biggest reason?
<jrwren> that would be subjective.
<jrwren> depends on use case.
<cmaloney> 12.04 can upgrade to 14.04 without having to go through 12.10, 13.04, 13.10
<cmaloney> so 12.04 > *
<cmaloney> ;)
<jrwren> no.
<jrwren> that is silly
<jrwren> also, you confuse "can" with "supported"
<cmaloney> Sorry, can't hear you over my being right. ;)
<cmaloney> pro-tip: Do not try to listen to Henry Rollins SPoken Word at work.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-11-19
<cmaloney> I <3 Kickstarter rewards
 * cmaloney is listening to Cryogen's latest
<gamerchick02> you supported a band? that's cool
<cmaloney> Yeah, I try to support as much music as I can
<cmaloney> Good morning
<brousch> yes
<smoser> jrwren, you can join #ubuntu-uds-servercloud-2
<jrwren> i did.
<jrwren> i mean, already was in tehre :)
<smoser> bah. me learns to read
<smoser> :)
<jrwren> i thought this IS the openstack QA session
<cmaloney> I swear the only size of a drive that matters is "90% full"
<cmaloney> no matter which drive I have, it seems to get to 90% full
<rick_h_> heads up https://twitter.com/mattjay/status/402861593471361024
<rick_h_> woot, "Software update downloading" on the MotoX
<brousch> 4.4?
<rick_h_> yea, supposed to be according to the news
<rick_h_> and it's a big one, taking many minutes to download
<rick_h_> installing, funny to get it on my motox before I get it on my n10
<brousch> I saw instructions for side loading it for N7
<rick_h_> yea, it's a bit nuts that the N10 doens't have it yet
<brousch> Great news from UDS. I can stay with Ubuntu until at least 2016 http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTUxOTQ
<rick_h_> heh
<cmaloney> rick_h_: http://beagleboard.org/blog/2013-11-19-project-spotlight-opensprinkler/?hootPostID=1f9979a835b8acf27ad0970498e5cc42
<cmaloney> I know the one thing in your life that has bugged you is "my sprinker controls aren't open source"
<rick_h_> ummm, I don't see the screen and dial where I set the zones, times, and set on/off.
<rick_h_> clearly, it's a weaponized device they're trying to sneak into my home
<cmaloney> It can use Google Calendar
<cmaloney> Or since it's a BeagleBone driving it: SSH. ;)
<cmaloney> "make it_rain"
<rick_h_> lmao
<cmaloney> OK, now I want a sprinkler system so I can type that. ;)
<cmaloney> also: make it_stop
<rick_h_> widox: greg-g woot! in FF nightly the bookie extension is moved to the top UI vs the bottom bar
<greg-g> weeee
<rick_h_> nice! makes it one step closer to usable
<widox> rick_h_: nice. they did away with the extension toolbar then?
<rick_h_> widox: looks like it
<rick_h_> I need to get a screenshot after dinner and post it up
<widox> cool. I'm not running nightly on here -- currently at v25.0
<rick_h_> widox: yea, it's on 28 so will be a bit
<greg-g> iceweasel is on 24.1 :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-11-20
<rick_h_> evening
<cmaloney> Evening
<cmaloney> jcastro: http://toxicholocaust.bandcamp.com/
<cmaloney> jcastro: http://skeletonwitch.bandcamp.com/
<widox> rick_h_: https://blog.mozilla.org/ux/2013/11/australis-is-landing-in-firefox-nightly/
<rick_h_> widox: yep
<rick_h_> widox: doing a G+ post now
<widox> I've got Aurora v26.0a2 on here
<widox> to many channels for browswer versions for me to keep track of
<widox> gesh
<rick_h_> https://plus.google.com/116120911388966791792/posts/7dGcpVYGNn2
<rick_h_> I run stable and nightly firefox and chrome dev
<rick_h_> widox: will have to up the icon size to fit in the bar now :)
<jrwren> australis?
<jrwren> aurora here too.
<rick_h_> that's the name of the new UI theme
<widox> rick_h_: heh, yeah could be a bit larger
<cmaloney> Oh nice. it's time Firefox became Chrome. ;)
<rick_h_> cmaloney: :)
<cmaloney> Oh, also got the new Hangouts on my phone
<rick_h_> yea, same here. Trying it out to replace texts with the wife
<rick_h_> since I can do both texts and MMS on it
<rick_h_> ah crap! Every time I update the extension it gets reset in the review queue
<rick_h_> it's back to 115/115. It'll never get reviewed now
<rick_h_> We'll have to let it sit for 4weeks and not update it at all
<cmaloney> That's not helpful
<rick_h_> no, very uncool
<rick_h_> well $#@$@# that didn't work. Looked like the other icons get 18px of space, but when I use a 18px icon it's truncated off
<greg-g> you all would appreciate this: Our lead architect was tasked with an annoying redirect issue (protocol relative stupidness), so to fix it, he decided to rewrite how rewrites are done completely, in a DSL that he's parsing into apache mod_rewrite rules: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/96438/
<greg-g> ie: instead of fixing the one or two lines in the current rewrite rules, make a DSL and associated parser
<greg-g> heh
<rick_h_> just another fun day in cyber-land http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6447922/
<rick_h_> greg-g: that is...crazy
<rick_h_> greg-g: and should be submitted upstream if it works well. No one likes to write those damn rules
<cmaloney> I feel like such a punter. I just bought a book on Apache mod_rewrite.
<brousch> What is this, 2012? Everyone is using nginx now
<brousch> cmaloney: Do you have anything to add to this list?
<brousch> http://list.ly/list/BGs-free-music-for-your-video-projects
<brousch> rick_h_: I might need a room for pycon, but I will hopefully have to be there for the 9th and 10th
<rick_h_> brousch: ah, doing tutorials?
<brousch> I submitted one
<rick_h_> ah, that's right, sweet
<brousch> The thing is, I'm not sure if I want to go if it's rejected. It's pretty expensive
<rick_h_> well, not that bad. It's $300 I think for the conference 3 days. The sprints are free other htan the hotel night/food
<brousch> Also I've never been away from my family for that long
<rick_h_> I guess my wife and I compare notes and her conferences are a LOT more expensive
<rick_h_> well, I'd still say it'd be cool to go, at least for the conference and a day or two of sprints
<cmaloney> brousch: I get most of my stuff from Bandcamp
<rick_h_> it's a bit boost ime
<cmaloney> but they don't have a nice way to search for CC music
<cmaloney> Archive.org ostensibly
<jrwren> greg-g: I like the DSL mod-rewrite, the checking alone is worth it IMO
<jrwren> an entire book on mod_rewrite is fucking nuts.
<jrwren> link me to TOC please.
<jrwren> http://www.amazon.com/Definitive-Guide-Apache-mod_rewrite-Guides/dp/1590595610  at least it is only 160 pages
<waf> boo, no chc for me tonight
<waf> really curious how that new place will work out
<rick_h_> waf: booooooooo
<cmaloney> I <3 when my computer decides to go offline
<rick_h_> no net for you
<cmaloney> Well, when JoDee prints it sometimes triggers the UPS
<cmaloney> which then triggers my machine to suspend
<rick_h_> printer on the UPS?!
<cmaloney> which is a royal PITA
<cmaloney> No, same circuit
<rick_h_> oh ouch
<cmaloney> Yeah, because this house is from the golden age of electricity
<cmaloney> When people were busily sitting in circles trying to shock each other and electricity was going to change the world.
<brousch> You can tell it's old because there is a printer in it
<waf> brousch++
<cmaloney> brousch: :-P
<brousch> I bet there's even a landline and a fax machine
<cmaloney> It's a multifunction
<brousch> I knew it
<greg-g> rick_h_: oo, interesting re upstreaming
<greg-g> jrwren: yeah, agreed
<rick_h_> http://developer.chrome.com/devsummit
<jrwren> gah! I fail at UTC. i missed all the UDS things I wanted to see today.
<jrwren> fuk calendars
<rick_h_> jrwren: :(
<rick_h_> but you caught the best one ever, the Gui stuff :P
<greg-g> haha
<jrwren> only for 2 seconds.
<jrwren> i have zero interest in that.
<jrwren> GUIs are for poeple who can't use a command line :p
<jrwren> oh, and they are nice for graphs and reports
<brousch> And phones
<jrwren> yes phones!
<jrwren> and tablets.
<jrwren> i don't think I need to admin my cloud deployments from my phone or tab, but rick_h_ can prove me wrong
<rick_h_> no, it doesn't work on the phone or tablet :P
<brousch> jrwren: Soon
<jrwren> it just runs in browser, I thought. why not in ipad?
<rick_h_> hey, quickstart is cli :P
<rick_h_> we're juju UI team so we're doing some cli improvement stuff as well
<jrwren> cool
<rick_h_> jrwren: because the UI isn't very touch friendly or size friendly to small screen
<jrwren> omg, someone on this recording has some loud KB switches.
<brousch> Those are the only screens that matter now!
<jrwren> ^^^
<rick_h_> yea, except funny thing, sysadmins aren't ditching their computers
<rick_h_> devs aren't really either
<rick_h_> something about keyboard and non-touch input device being useful for development and such
<brousch> Soon we'll all be dragging and dropping our way across development
<jrwren> exactly
<jrwren> i mean exactly to what rick_h_ said, not to the VB nonsense brousch said.
<rick_h_> yea, I think I've been hearing that for 20 years. "Drag and drop the user experience, and things will automagically wire themselves up"
<rick_h_> "See, it works great for my simple todo app...what you're not writing a todo app?"
<brousch> Isn't that how Visual Studio works?
<brousch> http://thenextweb.com/microsoft/2013/10/30/microsoft-updates-windows-phone-app-studio-fast-resume-flipview-nfc-native-phone-functions-ad-sdk/
<brousch> "Microsoft todayÂ updatedÂ theÂ Windows Phone App Studio, its free Web-based tool designed to help anyone create an app without coding."
<cmaloney> That is Microsoft's white whale isn't it?
<brousch> Also http://appinventor.mit.edu/
<rick_h_> brousch: sorry, remind me what app you use daily that's done in appinventor?
<brousch> Soon!
<cmaloney> Doesn't he use the little button app that goes "ping!"
<cmaloney> every single day.
<cmaloney> I hate that app
<brousch> I don't know that app
<cmaloney> Well there you go: write an app that goes "ping" when you hit a button
<cmaloney> and use that daily
<cmaloney> and then I can hate you.
<brousch> Ah, monty python
<cmaloney> It's really simple, really.
<brousch> I will make it with Kivy so it will be a 6MB app that goes ping
<cmaloney> Now you're just showing off
<rick_h_> lmao http://r.bmark.us/u/e0d0cd294a49ac
<brousch> cmaloney: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ma.android.ping
<cmaloney> OK, that's just laden with awesome.
<cmaloney> (was re: rick_h_'s comment)
<cmaloney> brousch: You're missing the point
<cmaloney> It needs to be something in app inventor that you use daily. :)
<brousch> "The app now goes ping in a much more efficient manner. Also we added a "Ping Widget", which also goes ping.Some of our users claim that this app is useless. We beg to differ, it goes ping."
<cmaloney> That's the whooooole point.
<jrwren> ya'll are trashing UI designers, but iOS storyboards are actually VERY VERY good.
<cmaloney> jrwren: I'ma let you finish but Android's the platform of the year.
<brousch> 80% now
<brousch> ios is a niche
 * rick_h_ runs away from the insanity
<cmaloney> 1heh
<jrwren> cmaloney: terrible troll there. you can do so much better.
<brousch> jrwren: I saw a presentation on storyboards. They did look nice
<cmaloney> jrwren: I know, but it felt right. ;)
<waf> rick_h_: haha, i was just wondering about that twitter app / sms permission thing
<waf> any idea what's going on?
<waf> also, dropbox wanting to read my contacts is iffy
<cmaloney> I have NFC what the Twitter SMS thing is
<cmaloney> other than I wonder if they'll send via SMS if you have crap connectivity.
<rick_h_> waf: https://twitter.com/alsutton/status/389988175592296448 is maybe a hint?
<cmaloney> http://arstechnica.com/business/2013/11/after-15-years-of-llama-whipping-aol-shuts-down-winamp-for-good/
<cmaloney> Wow, today is just full of great news.
 * cmaloney actually bought it for Android
<cmaloney> http://onethingwell.org/post/67571145705/god
<cmaloney> I'm so writing a chaos monkey for "God" and calling it "blasphemy"
<jcastro> wow seriously
<jcastro> kitkat on the motox before nexus?
 * jcastro shakes rick_h_
<rick_h_> jcastro: meh, you're not missing anything
<rick_h_> jcastro: but yea, shocked my N10 still doesn't have it
<rick_h_> jcastro: but I did see it going out for the N4 today I thouoght
<jcastro> yeah but OTA, so staggered
<rick_h_> jcastro: gotcha
<jcastro> also I saw the motox story before I scrolled down to the N4 one
<rick_h_> yea, I mean I got the phone dailer and some blue/grey icons and that's about it
<rick_h_> so much of the UX bits are N5 only
<jcastro> what's the dialer supposed to be?
<jcastro> I really wanted the merged hangout stuff
<rick_h_> it's all based on searches and such now
<rick_h_> well that's in the hangout app, I got that before the kitkat update
<rick_h_> and it sucks because it doesn't work with Voice at all
<rick_h_> so I still have two text apps
<jcastro> oh dude
<jcastro> I thought it was all supposed to be merged into one?
<jcastro> weak
<rick_h_> only your phone's built in SMS app is built in
<rick_h_> voice is still outside of that and all data-only
<rick_h_> so it's really just a replacement for SMS messages and doesn't do them over data or anything
<rick_h_> it's crap imo
<jrwren> guess when iOS users get their updates?
<jrwren> all at the same time.
<rick_h_> yep, and pick your phone, any phone, as long as it's one of these phones
<rick_h_> <3 my motox and ability to get that vs lots of other phones
<rick_h_> freaking wow http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Scroogled-Keep-Calm-Mug/productID.291428700
<rick_h_> I'm completely knocked over at that
<cmaloney> Yeah, apparently Microsoft's new venture is Cafe Press. ;)
<greg-g> I'm just done trying to teach this coworker where they are misunderstood as they clearly don't care to learn
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-11-21
<cmaloney> greg-g: WEll that sounds like fun
<cmaloney> EVening
<cmaloney> Apparently I hang on the shift key a lot. :)
<cmaloney> https://archive.org/details/openmetalcast
<cmaloney> http://www.anandtech.com/show/7245/ergodox-review-an-ergonomic-mechanical-keyboard-via-massdrop
<derekv> http://echo.rsmw.net/n00bfaq.html#the-indentation-thing so i guess, haskell is whitespace sensitive.  sometimes.  if you want.
<rick_h_> widox: greg-g 0.1a8 released https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/bookie/
<cmaloney> good morning
<rick_h_> morning
<brousch> kill me now
<rick_h_> umm, wasn't planning on it, but I guess
<brousch> Sinus  infection has had me up at 3:30-4AM every day this week
<brousch> Couldn't get back to sleep this morning
<cmaloney> Ugh
<jrwren> ugh
<jrwren> greg-g: have you tried the socratic method?
<cmaloney> jrwren: Having a debate with your servers to stimulate critical thinking?
<jrwren> cmaloney: i haven't needed to, yet.
<cmaloney> Ah, thought that was how you were using the socratic method.
<cmaloney> ;)
<brousch> Has anyone heard of a good use for a 1U rack tray containing approximately 19 Raspberry Pis (and power for them)?
<rick_h_> raising your electrical bill? taking up that last empty 1U space in your rack?
<brousch> Someone local designed such a thing for a specific purpose, but is looking for ideas on other uses
<devinheitmueller> Wall of televisions?
<brousch> devinheitmueller: That's all I could come up with too. Someplace that needed to stream a lot of videos to different locations
<devinheitmueller> If the Pi had better transcoding support, it would make a nice transcoder.
<devinheitmueller> There are comparable BCM components with transcoding cores, but I don't believe the Pi has one.
<brousch> They were talking about Beagle Bone Blacks instead of Pis at some point
<devinheitmueller> I don't think the BeagleBone Black has an H.264 encode core.
<devinheitmueller> If I recall, it only has a decoder.
<devinheitmueller> The BeagleBone Black is a nice piece of kit though.
<devinheitmueller> brousch: here you go:  http://hackaday.com/2013/11/20/raspis-and-arduinos-for-fm-broadcast-streaming/
<brousch> That's interesting
<cmaloney> It might be useful for multi-machine parallel processing experiments that don't require a lot of CPU
<cmaloney> outside of that I'm not sure what you'd get out of such an experiment other than street-cred.
<cmaloney> and dubious street-cred at that.
<brousch> Well there is apparently one legit use for it, but I don't know what that was
<greg-g> jrwren: I doubt it'll work, it'll come off as condescending
<jrwren> greg-g: don't condescend.
<jrwren> brousch: openstack on ARM
<jrwren> 19 compute nodes :p
<brousch> Maybe an openstack training tool?
<greg-g> jrwren: so hard not to! ;)
<jrwren> greg-g: change comes from within
<greg-g> jrwren: yes master.
<rick_h_> ok, this is cool http://developers.google.com/speed/pagespeed/insights/?ux=1&url=https%3A%2F%2Fbmark.us&tab=mobile
<rick_h_> waf: back when we were hacking on the tag widget for bookie didn't you have one you were using that was native JS?
<waf> rick_h_: yeah, i have this one that sits on top of the jquery autocomplete widget: http://files.fuqua.io/misc/wondrous/
<waf> from forever ago. jquery 1.6
<rick_h_> waf: ah, nvm then. Yea, I want to do a tag widget for the FF plugin and debating on trying to port my YUI one over to pure modern-js or not
<waf> yeah, probably too much baggage
<waf> modern js could be fun. maybe some datalist love
<rick_h_> hmm, interesting
<rick_h_> yea, I've been having fun going pure JS, just things you take for granted like delegate events and such
<waf> yeah, the introduction of querySelector[All] made it fun
<waf> what do you mean delegate events? just like listening on a top level element for child element events?
<rick_h_> yea, well in YUI it returns an event object you can use to check if the event is already bound, etc. I ran into issues with that and getting dupe events, getting issues in node.value vs node.setAttribute, etc
<rick_h_> little things that just are enough different that with the way the extension works (long living, open/close/etc) made for some fun getting things working last night
<rick_h_> YUI delete takes an additional param on what selector to watch for so you can delegate on one node, for all a, in raw js that's all manual
<waf> ah, gotcha
 * rick_h_ is spoiled by modern JS tools
<waf> oh, btw! how did chc go?
<rick_h_> meh, we had 5 people and had two tables not connected. Worked well enough I think.
<rick_h_> bandwidth is nice on the mifi there, coffee was ok, but not that good, busier than I had hoped, and we couldn't take over the back area
<rick_h_> so we'll keep going and see how it goes
<rick_h_> but we should split up and grab two tables to start with probably and make sure we've got room for at least 8
<rick_h_> got derekv's bookie android app updates on my phone :)
<cmaloney> Yeah, I think it went well
<cmaloney> and I think rick_h_ got the wrong coffee. ;)
<rick_h_> hah
<rick_h_> it was a bit watery
<cmaloney> Might be the soy milk they use
<cmaloney> You might want to try the french vietnamese coffee
<cmaloney> I <3 lattees but that is some gooooood shit.
<rick_h_> ok, I'll experiment next week
<cmaloney> I'll get you a small one so if you don't like it no worries. :)
<rick_h_> yea, all good
<rick_h_> but yea, I mean we had CHC, we had room for more than 4, and we got some work done. So I'll call it a success
<cmaloney> ++
<rick_h_> and I liked the walking around down town, kind of cool
<cmaloney> Yeah, it's nice down there.
<cmaloney> Not so nice when it's' 5 below but you take the good / bd.
<cmaloney> bad
<rick_h_> heh, I don't mind a little brisk walk
<rick_h_> hope they shovel it up a bit in the snow
<cmaloney> Let's just say that brick looks nice when it's not snowing
<rick_h_> and cmaloney can get rides now so we can get him wasted since I have to pass his house to get there/back
<cmaloney> and it's a real bitch when it is
<cmaloney> woo woo!
<rick_h_> hah
<cmaloney> "Shhhuuure JoSheee. I hasssn't been dinkin' tonighsshsssht."
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-11-22
<tony-smlr> SMLR is going live now!  Video http://youtu.be/6cDQjSKHKb8 - Audio http://live.smlr.us:8000/streaming
<tony-smlr> We are also chatting on #smlr
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> heh, funny to see this in the JS weekly newsletter http://nathanleclaire.com/blog/2013/11/16/the-javascript-question-i-bombed-in-an-interview-with-a-y-combinator-startup/
<rick_h_> seems something like https://github.com/mitechie/Bookie/blob/develop/bookie/static/js/bookie/tagcontrol.js#L464 :)
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> rick_h_: You're Y-combinator-startup-ready.
<rick_h_> heh, I remember when I worked on that and took me a bit to get it right
<cmaloney> To the HACKERNEWSMOBILE
<rick_h_> hah!
<rick_h_> I was thinking "All problems in all things occur in the Bookie universe!"
<cmaloney> Yeah, because Bookie isn't a Todolist. ;)
<cmaloney> And isn't JQuery-padded
<rick_h_> hah, it's not a todo list...yet!
<cmaloney> BookieList here we come
<rick_h_> now that does sound like a betting website
<waf> touch /srv/root/http/remember-to-buy-groceries
<waf> bookmark that; todo list implemented.
<rick_h_> :P
<brousch> I want to turn it into a todo list, but rick_h_ wouldn't let me
<rick_h_> I never let brousch do anything fun
<brousch> Bookmark things with a todo tag, then remove the tag when it's done
<rick_h_> crap, bookie is just a todo app! curses!
<brousch> I still need something for my To-Read, To-Watch, and To-Listen lists like that
<rick_h_> heh, dr who game in the google doodle on the uk site
<jrwren> look at this BEAST https://www.system76.com/laptops/model/kudp1
<rick_h_> yea, still no 12 or 13 laptop
<rick_h_> I think they're confused on where the market is today
<jrwren> agree.
<jrwren> then again, they are such a niche market, that it may be the case that of ubuntu laptop buyers, many want a beast.
<jrwren> that thing is actually awesome. I speced one out, with 2 - 1TB AND a 240G mSata and 16G ram, and the smallest i7, it was only $1600
<jrwren> that is A LOT of laptop for the price.
<rick_h_> heh, well come to a canonical sprint and you'll see 2/100 tanks like that
<rick_h_> 40% thinkpad x2XX, 40% 13/12/11 macs, and 20% system 76, xps13, misc. And I can't think of many 17" ones in that group at all
<rick_h_> ok, wtf...I just got an email from sourceforge that I've been selected to get a free 'Popular Science' magazine?!
<jrwren> rick_h_: i hope you don't think that canonical sprinters are representative of all ubuntu users.
<rick_h_> well it's a heavy ubuntu population :P
<rick_h_> but yea, understand
<jrwren> and hopefully a tiny sliver tiny fraction of the ubuntu population
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Please forward that to me. I'd like to see it (the email)
<rick_h_> cmaloney: forwarded
<cmaloney> tx
<jsivak> rick_h_: I'm looking at the Lenovo x230; you find any issues / problems with yours?
<cmaloney> jsivak: Looking to downgrade the tank?
<jsivak> looking for a smaller footprint (especially useful when travelling), but x230 *does* come with 16G of RAM. :)
<cmaloney> Is that a datacenter in your man-purse or are you just happy to see me? :)
<jsivak> That's no moon..   that's my laptop!
<rick_h_> jsivak: I've got no issues other than the screen res
<jsivak> Yeah, I saw the 1366 x 768.. didn't like that part.
<rick_h_> the x240 with the higher res is rumored to be coming out next month
<jsivak> Oh really..
<rick_h_> so I'll be watching that, but other than that, no complaints
<cmaloney> my laptop has it's own gravitational pull, and the CPU fan has been known to cause weather patterns to shift uncontrollably.
<jsivak> rick_h_: this one? http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/x-series/x240/
<cmaloney> Hasn't the x240 been the proverbial white whale laptop?
<jsivak> .. it still has 1366x768.. :(
<rick_h_> jsivak: http://www.designntrend.com/articles/8791/20131029/lenovo-thinkpad-x240-specs-price-release-info-touchscreen-edition-pushed-laptop-ultrabook.htm
<rick_h_> jsivak: right, thus the 'Dec' rumor
<cmaloney> blergh
<cmaloney> stats or it didn't happen. ;)
<greg-g> ugh, I'm not liking the new body on that ;/
<greg-g> :/
<cmaloney> Yeah, that's looking mighty cheap.
<cmaloney> And the angle makes the touchpad look like it's falling out of the computer
<cmaloney> like someone dropped it
<jsivak> hmm.. can't get 16G on the x240.
<jsivak> though at home I'd be hooking it up to a 22+" monitor.. so the 1366x768 res may not be *that* bad.
<jsivak> my main issue is trying to use the t520 on a plane.. almost impossible.
<jsivak> Plus, I'm trying to find an excuse to buy a new laptop so I can give my current one to my youngest daughter for Xmas
<rick_h_> yea, I've got a pair of docsk if you want one
<rick_h_> jsivak: that lets you do dual display out from the laotp
<rick_h_> laptop
<rick_h_> I don't use them now that I've got the desktop
<greg-g> wiat wait....
<greg-g> a pair? for what?
<greg-g> which model?
<rick_h_> x230, 220
<greg-g> probably not compat with my x200s
<greg-g> :(
 * greg-g looks
<greg-g> yeah, probably not
<greg-g> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0047EGO6E/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1
<greg-g> whats in my cart waiting to hit buy on
<rick_h_> yea, I've used them for years as I've been laptop only
<greg-g> me too, I've just been.... dumb
<greg-g> mostly, it's so I can have the displayport for higher res external monitor
<rick_h_> yea, I did displayport->DVI and DVI out
<rick_h_> and now with the desktop I just use three displays on one machine bwuhahahaha
<rick_h_> jsivak: so yea, if you're looking up upgrade I'd wait and see if the unicorn shows up next month
<rick_h_> jsivak: but no issues here with my x230 and still love it and all.
<rick_h_> jsivak: it'll do dual ssd (msata as a second one) so love the space, performance, etc
<greg-g> I dislike the x230 keyboard, for what that's worth, jsivak (which is why I'm holding onto my x200s with my hands ever so tightly)
<rick_h_> I don't think it's that bad. I do like the older style better, but it's been bearable for sure.
<greg-g> luckily wherever I am near a monitor, I have a Kinesis. it's just the couch/coffee shop/transit time that makes me dislike the keyboard
<jcastro> I have a dual DP/DVI version of that thinkpad dock
<jcastro> http://www.amazon.com/Lenovo-Mini-Dock-Plus-USB/dp/B0085MQLGC/ref=pd_sim_e_3
<jcastro> cheaper too
<jrwren> *cough* mac book air
<greg-g> jrwren: worst. keyboard. ever.
<rick_h_> lol
<jsivak> greg-g: yeah, the new keyboards looked 'less good'..
<jsivak> rick_h_: for the desktop + 3 displays: did you use 3 display cards?
<jsivak> I had bad luck with Xinerama support dying; so I ended up with a Matrox TripleHead2Go hardware solution
<jsivak> rick_h_: forgot to ask, have you used the x230 on a plane? does it "fit" on the tray-table?
<greg-g> jsivak: should, my x220 did
<greg-g> I mean, with the usual caveat of when the person in front of you leans their seat back
<greg-g> nothing fits
<jsivak> ah, got it.. the t520 is definitely too big.
<rick_h_> jsivak: yea, it does fit.
<rick_h_> I tend to use my N10 though for the most part.
<rick_h_> jsivak: no, for the 3 displays the card supports it. 660Ti
<cmaloney> http://alekdarson.bandcamp.com/album/panopticon
<rick_h_> jcastro: you get your N4 4.4 yet?
<jrwren> greg-g: i assure you that macbookair keyboard is not worst ever.
<jrwren> i'll agree that it is not good.
<jcastro> rick_h_, no
<rick_h_> jcastro: ah ok. Saw they had released it and it's out there.
<jcastro> yeah
<jcastro> it's staggered
<jcastro> been manually checking
<rick_h_> gotcha
<greg-g> jrwren: it's in the running, at least ;)
<rick_h_> I keep waiting for N10 2 news
<jrwren> greg-g: on what are you typing?
<rick_h_> jrwren: greg-g is a kenisis man
<greg-g> diehard, in fact
<rick_h_> hah
<greg-g> :)
<jrwren> anyone know where I can get an automake-1.12 package for 12.04? backports maybe?
<jrwren> http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=automake&searchon=names&suite=saucy&section=all
<jrwren> it was never packaged in any release?  FML
<cmaloney> Anybody else delight in marking reviews of books that bitch about the price as "suspected underage user?" :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-11-23
<rick_h_> party party
<cmaloney> Evening
<greg-g> yo yo
<greg-g> https://identi.ca/greg/note/tSE9RG4bRu2lxTZD0R46Qw
<cmaloney> Absinthe?
<cmaloney> Hipster.
<rick_h_> cmaloney: backing up linode.
<cmaloney> rick_h_: kk
<cmaloney> LMK when you want to do the transfer
<rick_h_> it'll also take down paste.mitechie.com. I should reset that up somewhere
<rick_h_> cmaloney: yea, it's actually got a bunch of old stuff on there. tar'ing it all into one giant thing and will re-upload just the good stuff
<rick_h_> but did a db dump and such
<greg-g> cmaloney: hey, it's what we have in the cabinet (it's quite the collection, honestly)
<rick_h_> hah
<greg-g> oh no!
<greg-g> rick_h_ is migrating servers?
<rick_h_> greg-g: well, I pay $30 for the one that runs paste and lococast so cutting costs
<greg-g> ahhh
<greg-g> yeah, that's a lot
<rick_h_> so trimming some fat and trying to get things back into control
<rick_h_> so I can justify spending more on bmark.us and such :)
<tony-smlr> brb
<gamerchick02> guess who's an idiot and accidentally deleted all her partitions whilst trying to make more room for Windows?
<rick_h_> and then magically pulled out her backups from the local NAS and was happy?
<gamerchick02> :)
<gamerchick02> yes
<gamerchick02> well, i have an external hard drive that windows doesn't seem lo like right now.
<gamerchick02> ubuntu has NO problems with it but windows is like "let me check and make sure this is ok."
<gamerchick02> i'm working on the windows side of things right now. pulled down my WoW client pretty quick. doing D3 right now.
<gamerchick02> and i'll have Steam in a bit. (that's why i needed more room; Humble Indie Bundle)
<rick_h_> yay
<gamerchick02> sort of. i hope i can get my docs and stuff onto windows. i have a 1TB hard drive and did it halvesies.
<gamerchick02> Ubuntu is next and that won't take any time at all to install
<gamerchick02> also what's the deal with the sound indicator bug in Xubuntu?
<tony-smlr> Door and I are on Linux for the rest of us Going live 148 http://youtu.be/hxAzjhoTp6s
<tony-smlr> We are chatting on #podnutz
<cmaloney> Morning
<rick_h_> morning
<jrwren> whoo hoo... saturday
<gamerchick02> no kidding!
<gamerchick02> been a long week
<gamerchick02> especially since i accidentally hosed my hard drive last night trying to add more space for windows. oops. but i'm back up and in business. :)
<jrwren> :(
<jrwren> adding more games?
<gamerchick02> yeah, adding more games. that humble indie bundle now integrates with steam and i need more room for that stuff
<gamerchick02> i split my HDD into two about 500 gb portions and half goes to ubuntu and half goes to windows
<gamerchick02> i'd made the mistake of letting ubuntu "do it's thing" and it didn't leave me with very much room to expand if i needed more room on windows.
<gamerchick02> oh well
<gamerchick02> i can be back up and running with my partitions in less than 2 days with my internet connection and the way i install stuff. :)
<jrwren> awesome.
<jrwren> I never restart.
<jrwren> if I have to, its a full restart. I don't even knwo what back up and running is.
<gamerchick02> well this was an accident. i didn't mean to delete everything but i did.
<gamerchick02> oh well
<derekv> messing with https://ifttt.com/
<derekv> this is exactly the type of app i envision building.  useful, simple, composable, works with other services
<derekv> only thing i'm noticing is, i'm putting a lot fo trust into this companies security
<gamerchick02> yeah i have an account there too. it's handy for some stuff
<gamerchick02> there's also divr.it or something
<gamerchick02> i think that's open source
<rick_h_> derekv: yea, it's pretty cool. I've used it for a couple of handy things. Not found a killer use for it yet.
<gamerchick02> i use it in conjunction with pocket and pinboard.in. if i star something in pocket it will go to pinboard.
<cmaloney> Well today has been fun
<cmaloney> finally went to the docs for my sore neck
<rick_h_> cmaloney: all good?
<cmaloney> I'm on muscle relaxers
<cmaloney> so if you'd like to ask me for anything now would be the time. :)
<cmaloney> (Actually it's not much)
<rick_h_> cmaloney: heh, party
<rick_h_> time for more standing desk time to help with that. Helps my neck issue some, though I don't always do a good job of that stuff
<cmaloney> Going to lay down for a bit. bbl
<greg-g> cmaloney: feel better
<jrwren> remember yahoo pipes?
<jrwren> ifttt 10yrs ago
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-11-24
<rick_h_> jrwren: +1
<Z1efin> I need help with Nvidia Drivers for Ubuntu 13 is this a good room for this?
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> greg-g: Thank you.
<rick_h_> morn
<cmaloney> we having fun yet?
<jrwren> yes
<cmaloney> good deal
<rick_h_> feeling better cmaloney ?
<jrwren> oh no, you do have that crud going around?  After a week living with a sick wife, I think I finally got it ;(
<jrwren> feel better cmaloney
<gamerchick02> ugh jwren. i've managed to avoid most of the crud going around but i've been headachey recently
<gamerchick02> and yes, everyone feel better. :)
<rick_h_> heh, son came down with crud this weekend
<gamerchick02> ugh
<gamerchick02> i'm waiting for the creeping crud to come my way at work.
<cmaloney> Thank you
<cmaloney> I think I'm feeling better. Didn't need the muscle relaxers and was actually productive.
<cmaloney> Took the cat in to the vet this afternoon because she's been sneezing and what-not.
<gamerchick02> oh no. a cat with a cold. :(
<cmaloney> Or allergies or soomething
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-11-17
<mrgoodcat> jrwren: not sure what you're talking about, my c720 has a super key
<rick_h_> morning
<_stink_> yo
<brousch> werd up u-dawgs
<rick_h_> ummm, woof
<brousch> rick_h_: Very nice 3 year blog post
<rick_h_> brousch: ty
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: in what position is the super?
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> Also where is F11 and F12 on a Chromebook. :)
<brousch> 10 Fs is enough for most people
<jrwren> i honestly only use f11, f12 for volume up and down :)
<rick_h_> f11 is my vim :set paste toggle
<rick_h_> required stuff :)
<jrwren> I type :set paste every time.
<cmaloney> jrwren: same
<mrgoodcat> jrwren: its the "search" key
 * jrwren looks
<mrgoodcat> jrwren: where caps lock is on a normal keyboard
<cmaloney> Wow, I'm not sure what would drive me more nuts: caps-lock or super. :)
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: ah, probably fine for a 1-off laptop, but for real work that key is ctrl as the ADM-3A teaches us.
<rick_h_> +1
<mrgoodcat> yea i used to map that key to ctrl
<mrgoodcat> now i obviously need it to be super
<mrgoodcat> i mapped right-alt to ctrl
<jrwren> i believe chome books spec it that way just so they aren't useful for power users.
<mrgoodcat> easily reachable with thumb
<cmaloney> All hail the ADM-3A, keyboard layout that we should all aspire to be
<jrwren> cmaloney: because there is no way we have learned more about keybaords in the last 40 years :)
<cmaloney> I think most folks who did keyboard science / ergonomics back in the day would say we've horribly regressed
<cmaloney> Much the same as the phone comfort research
<mrgoodcat> are there any KBs available today with tht layout?
<rick_h_> maybe :P
<rick_h_> cmaloney: especially with the folks going tablet crappy keyboard
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Yep
 * rick_h_ says as he checks if the damn folio keyboard cover is out YET!
<cmaloney> But there's little chance of the "Road Warrior"-set carrying around a 20lb keyboard with mech. switches.
<rick_h_> definitely
<rick_h_> and it's more like 3 or 4 :P
<rick_h_> but mainly won't fit in carry on well
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Yeah, no doubt.
<cmaloney> Even 10keyless.
<mrgoodcat> get thought control
<mrgoodcat> on a more serious note, have you seen that guy that codes using voice control?
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Yeah, that'll work
<cmaloney> I saw something like that around 2007
<cmaloney> ish
<cmaloney> Maybe 2009
<cmaloney> at the time I was doing Perl and thought it was going to be my own version of hell. :)
<mrgoodcat> theres a talk about it floating around somewhere
<cmaloney> Thing is I type faster than I can talk, at least when it comes to symbols
<cmaloney> !@#$%^&*()
<cmaloney> vs. Bang At-sign, pound-sign, etc.
<mrgoodcat> he used a made up language
<cmaloney> Amperssaaaaannnnd
<cmaloney> Oh great
<cmaloney> So it's the same as Palm Graffiti
<mrgoodcat> he was super fast actually
<mrgoodcat> for voice anyways
<cmaloney> I don't doubt it
<mrgoodcat> he claims to be as fast with voice as he is with kb
<mrgoodcat> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SkdfdXWYaI
<cmaloney> Will have to look at that later.
<cmaloney> Until then I'm stuck typing. :)
<cmaloney> I think a mind-controlled computer would both be awesome and suck at the same time
<cmaloney> awesome because I could think out what I want to have happen
<cmaloney> and suck because half-way through my mind would wander and the computer would dutifully comply
<cmaloney> (taking notes, taking notes, I wonder about... Dammit)
<mrgoodcat> yea it would take either some epic self control or something like palm-rejection on trackpads
<mrgoodcat> but for wandering thoughts
 * mrgoodcat begins to wonder how he would detect on-topic thoughts...
<cmaloney> Um, no Squeezebox, we're not doing Mozart's Mass in C minor this morning
<jrwren> i miss graffiti. I still print incorrectly due to learning graffiti
<mrgoodcat> how can you learn graffiti? isnt the whole point that its unique?
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: grafiti was the name of the palm pilot hand writing recognition syste.
<brousch> jrwren: No. You now print correctly because of graffiti. everyone else is wrong
<jrwren> brousch: given how rarely I print, I don't think it matters much. I could probably correct myself with some drills and a day or two of training.
<cmaloney> My handwriting suffered a bit from learning graffiti
<mrgoodcat> anybody know how long a pi can reasonably be expected to last on a 3700mah battery
<mrgoodcat> ?
<cmaloney> not sure
<brousch> Depends on what is running and usb peripherals and wifi ...
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: such a good question!
<jrwren> does the ARM on a pi have cpu power saving features like an intel? might it also depend on cpu load?
<cmaloney> I think the best way would be to experiment
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-11-18
<cmaloney> Evening
<rick_h_> ugh
<cmaloney> That good eh?
<rick_h_> party
<brousch> buttloads of snow
<jrwren> yay for not having to leave teh house
<greg-g> ugh for colds :(
<rick_h_> morning
<brousch> ug
<rick_h_> heh that good eh?
<brousch> ~8"
<brousch> Maybe 7
<brousch> A lot of blowing snow last night and this morning making whiteout conditions
<rick_h_> ouch
<rick_h_> just dust here, but it sure seems early in the winter (is it winter yet technically?) for 11F
<brousch> It's lake effect snow, so you don't get much of it
<mrgoodcat> WMU got a snow day this morning
<mrgoodcat> 6" of snow over there
<mrgoodcat> surprised they closed over 6 inches
<brousch> Yeah, it's really not that bad
<brousch> Schools closed here too, but it's not nearly as bad as last year when they stayed open
<rick_h_> well at one point they kind of had to
<rick_h_> they used up all their snow days and it kept coming
<brousch> We didn't use them all
<rick_h_> oh, over here they went long after the year to meet the min mandates and such
<brousch> And colleges closing over 6" of snow? U-M never closed back in my day
<rick_h_> I guess a lot of them were closed due to cold
<rick_h_> it was so freaking cold last winter
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> well they were saying last year once the worst in 20 years so how long ago were you in school :P
<brousch> It's only 18F and 6" of snow and WMU, GVSU, etc are closed
<brousch> today
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> morning
<cmaloney> I'm representing MUG at work
<cmaloney> it's "Michigan / Detroit day" (spirit week) and I don't have many shirts that have Michigan on them
<cmaloney> I think I have 15 for Ohio between PyOhio, Ohio Linuxfest, and Cinciclassic.
<cmaloney> This is unsustainable.
<mrgoodcat> i have like a hundred WMU shirts
<mrgoodcat> brousch: schools are closed because of union contracts. Snow came too early and fast.
<cmaloney> The unions couldn't keep up? :)
<mrgoodcat> pretty much
<mrgoodcat> The contracts stipulate things like number of days of notice before work and such. Can't break the rules
<_stink_> my freshman year at WMU we had a snow day the day before thanksgiving
<_stink_> which was a big surprise
<cmaloney> I'll bet.
<cmaloney> I'm surprised at the amount of folks commenting on my end of radio post.
<cmaloney> (http://decafbad.net/2014/11/12/seth-godin-an-end-of-radio/)
<mrgoodcat> don't normally get comments?
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Not generally
<cmaloney> Usually I get one or two depending if wolfger or one of my other friends is paying attention
<cmaloney> these are two folks that I don't know.
<cmaloney> Although one of them had kind of a spammish link which I removed.
<cmaloney> But hey, if I'm getting spammers that are actually leaving reasonable comments I'll take it. :)
<cmaloney> Man, it looks like the Debian project is going through some major churn
<mrgoodcat> in what way?
<mrgoodcat> code churn or people churn?
<rick_h_> both :)
<cmaloney> People churn
<cmaloney> I think last count of folks stepping down is at 4
<greg-g> "Let's Encrypt", thoughts?  https://freedom-to-tinker.com/blog/jhalderm/announcing-lets-encrypt/
<cmaloney> So Let's Encrypt becomes a CA?
<cmaloney> am I reading that right?
<cmaloney> 1) I'm not sure I like the "create a piece of software" bit in order to make certificates easier.
<cmaloney> since I'm not sure what that software will be mucking with
<cmaloney> though getting https certificates installed properly is less than trivial
<cmaloney> 2) What's to keep bad-actors from bad-acting and getting this CA blacklisted?
<cmaloney> On the surface I like it
<cmaloney> Part of the reason I'm not using https is because of cost / PITA.
<rick_h_> greg-g: wish them luck. Dealing with cross domain warnings from browsers, https overhead (austrailia users get a 400ms hit every https domain they get on canonical services), and cert management is hard let's go shopping
<rick_h_> greg-g: but as someone that pays out of pocket for SSL certs on hobby and even our QA sites at work I'm all +1 on https
<rick_h_> and that's beyond the stuff that's just ip addresses or local dns and not real urls and the like
<jrwren> it is very sad what is happening in systemd world and debian land.
<jrwren> very similar to the hate filled boycot novell that happened in mono land.
<jrwren> let's encrypt - as long as its open source, because no other way do I trust "Web site operators simply install a small piece of software that takes care of the entire process."
<cmaloney> I wish there was better support for self-signed certificates
<cmaloney> But I completely understand why I'm asking for something impossible.
<jrwren> cmaloney: easier to run your own CA.
<jrwren> cmaloney: and there is great support for that.
<cmaloney> i've not had any luck not getting a ton of warnings about that
<jrwren> did you import your CA root as a trusted cert?
<cmaloney> I thought I did
<cmaloney> This was a while ago, so the specifics are lost in time
 * DrDaemonEye peers in
<cmaloney> DrDaemonEye: Howdy. :)
<DrDaemonEye> hey hey cmaloney :)
<DrDaemonEye> I had forgotten that I should be here
<cmaloney> Yeah, we need to have some sort of nagging mechanism. ;)
<DrDaemonEye> We do... I think there is also a channel for the michigan users group?
<cmaloney> Yep, #mugorg
<DrDaemonEye> thanks.
<cmaloney> np
<DrDaemonEye> there... I am in all the right local channels
<DrDaemonEye> How's everyone doing?
<cmaloney> Hanging in there.
<cmaloney> Doing the working thing
<cmaloney> listening to Metallica for the first time in forever.
<DrDaemonEye> good good.  :)  Working... fun stuff.
<DrDaemonEye> Oh nice.  I am listening to Fleetwood Mac for the first time in a long time.
<cmaloney> Yeah, there's a reason that Cliff-era Metallica was one of the big four
<DrDaemonEye> I saw a couple of their albums on vinyl record.
<cmaloney> I think they're reissuing them
<cmaloney> Vinyl is pretty big in the metal world
<cmaloney> http://www.earache.com/uswebstore/
<DrDaemonEye> Yea.  It is becoming big again around town here, but I have a feeling I live in a hipsterish college town.
<cmaloney> Whereabouts?
<DrDaemonEye> Ann Arbor
<cmaloney> yeah, that's a hipsterish college town. ;)
<cmaloney> Though there's a vinyl store in Royal Oak (UHF) that I adore.
<DrDaemonEye> It really is.
<jrwren> yay Ann Arbor
<DrDaemonEye> jrwren: you in A2?
<jrwren> yes
<cmaloney> jrwren is the face of Ann Arbor
<DrDaemonEye> you ever make it down to All Hands Active?
<jrwren> I've been there once or twice.
<DrDaemonEye> Ah okay.  you should come by sometime... Just got membership there again
<jrwren> i was trying to point it out to someone a couple weeks ago. it was 9pm on Monday night after a semjs meeting at Baracuda, and I couldn't find the door. We were just across the street
<DrDaemonEye> Anyway, I think it is about time to get vinyl record player
<DrDaemonEye> Yea, Mondays the door tends to dark
<cmaloney> DrDaemonEye: Yea, i have one that I haven't hooked up
<cmaloney> at least in $newlocation
<DrDaemonEye> :)  I also want to get a tube audio amp
<cmaloney> I'd love to find a good one that isn't over $400
<DrDaemonEye> hehe.  :)
<cmaloney> and isn't a kit. ;)
<cmaloney> That or a nice Class-T amp
<DrDaemonEye> I'd want a kit, so I can do custom cases
<cmaloney> I have one that I like but it's a little underpowered
<cmaloney> Pyle 20watt/ch
<DrDaemonEye> nice.  :)
<jrwren> oh, I didn't realize let's encrypt is an eff project. https://www.eff.org/press/releases/new-free-certificate-authority-dramatically-increase-encrypted-internet-traffic
<jrwren> It now has my trust.
<greg-g> rick_h_: does canonical use caching pops/some sort of cdn?
<greg-g> we put a cache/terminator in SF and it helped oceania a ton (main DC is in Ashburn, with another cache in Amsterdam)
<greg-g> still bad, without having something in Japan or so all of oceania is screwed
<rick_h_> greg-g: not for all things
 * greg-g nods
<rick_h_> greg-g: the packages stuff has some mirrors
<rick_h_> and things like ubuntu images in the clouds and such
<rick_h_> but for most just apps/etc no.
<greg-g> gotcha
<rick_h_> though we're looking at some of that in some upcoming work, but not like you guys do I'm sure
<greg-g> well, our use case is limited
<greg-g> "text webpages and images" is pretty easy to cache
<rick_h_> yea, true
<rick_h_> the thing with ours is a lot of interactive apps that make caching alone hard enough much less really pushing it too hard out to the edges
<greg-g> totally
<greg-g> 99% usecase for us is anonymous users being served a cached copy
<greg-g> the 1% (editors/logged in users) is harder, of course, but we can easily throw hardware at both problems
<rick_h_> gotcha
<rick_h_> yea, I think our future is more on the idea of running multiple instances of the apps in diff geo regions and getting users to the closest instance
<greg-g> I can't wait until we have our second DC up and running (in dallas) with full replication/etc
<rick_h_> but we'll see
<rick_h_> woot!
<rick_h_> MOAR POWAR
<greg-g> we're still tiny compared to the other top 5 websites, but adding another 600+ servers is always fun :)
<rick_h_> how'd you make out building your team?
<greg-g> still in-progress (one more RelEng hire open, interviews on-going), but going well. We just had a Team Health Check today:
<greg-g> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Team_Practices_Group/Health_check_survey
<rick_h_> "no colds allowed"
<rick_h_> interesting
<greg-g> stole the idea from Spotify I think
<greg-g> but yeah, a bunch of teams are doing it
<greg-g> but, today, we had ours, and we were pretty much all "awesome" for each one. We only had two "meh"s
<greg-g> Also got a lot of positive feedback in the "Fun" section about how I've held the team together. Basically, I thought to myself "they like me! They really really like me!"
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> always good to hear
<greg-g> means I'm not enough of a hardass, apparently :P
<rick_h_> I just hide it behind laughing so it sounds better :P
<greg-g> #managementbehindthescenes
<rick_h_> I can't seem to pull that off. I'm too into everything. It's something to figure out still
<greg-g> what's it in that sentence?
<rick_h_> "manage behind the scenes"
<rick_h_> as in kind of hands off/invisible
 * rick_h_ needs to do some singing of "let it go! let it go!"
<greg-g> oh, I meant more "we're talking about our secrets here"
<greg-g> but yeah, that is tough
<rick_h_> oh, gotcha. Heh yea gotta go into a private channel and confess how sometimes we don't actually know wtf we're doing :)
<rick_h_> so everyone still thinks we do
<greg-g> exactly!
<greg-g> "I learned 95% of what I know about management from https://twitter.com/PicardTips"
<rick_h_> lol
<greg-g> do you follow that account? it's actually pretty great
<rick_h_> I see it RT'd around often enough
<rick_h_> I try to keep away from too much noise on twitter
<rick_h_> I find enough of that stuff gets my way via people I do follow
 * greg-g nods
<greg-g> I went on an unfollow or "turn off retweets" spree recently, helped a ton
<rick_h_> yea, every time my count goes over 150 I start to look for stuff to cut
<rick_h_> seems to be a magic number for me
<rick_h_> of course I just crossed 200 ugh
<greg-g> huh, I follow 301....
<rick_h_> I followed leankit today because that's where they announced a network issue today
<rick_h_> 150-160 is my happy place
<rick_h_> there we go, cut out almost 20
<greg-g> :)
 * greg-g wonders if he's still on the list :P
<rick_h_> :)
<greg-g> I've really started leaning on the "turn off retweets" thing. Some people retweet way too much, but are pretty sensible with their own stuff
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-11-19
<jrwren> i follow 604
<jrwren> i'm guessing 400 of those tweet once a month :)
<jrwren> following count importance < following tweet rate importance
<greg-g> yeah, I was wondering if I could find that somewhere...
<greg-g> it'd be nice if I could see that number, and see if "if you unfollowed X, your tweet rate would be Y"
<jrwren> oh man, I would love that.
<cmaloney> Evening
<rick_h_> party
<cmaloney> greg-g: That would be awesome
<cmaloney> assuming I were still on Twitter of course. :)
<DrDaemonEye> evening everyone
<cmaloney> Evening
<rick_h_> howdy
<cmaloney> brousch: I'm about two moves from resigning our 19x19 game
<cmaloney> I only have a slight advantage but I can see you winning this.
<brousch> Never give up!
<_stink_> play a bomb piece
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> morning
<DrDaemonEye> morning cmaloney, rick_h_
<cmaloney> Morning DrDaemonEye
<DrDaemonEye> How goes?
<cmaloney> It goes.
<cmaloney> Yourself?
<DrDaemonEye> Very cold and snowman-like.
<DrDaemonEye> I guess we're suppose to get a couple inches of snow by mid-afternoon
<cmaloney> Yeah, I'm not looking forward to that
<DrDaemonEye> nor am I.  I got class this afternoon
<brousch> bite me
<cmaloney> brousch: OMG IT'S SNOWING OUTSIDE! RUN!
 * cmaloney is listening to Chris Christodoulou - Hailstorm
<brousch> It's been snowing! I raked my roof and broke 2ft long icicles last night. shoveled another 3" this morning
<cmaloney> brousch: Yeah, but that's normal for the west side of the state
<cmaloney> We should still be having 70F weather.
<rick_h_> I had to go ask my phone 'what's the first day of winter' and it told me a lie and said Dec 21st not Nov 11th
<cmaloney> ;)
<brousch> At least we're not in Buffalo
<DrDaemonEye> brousch: ouch.  no fun
<jrwren> greg-g: debian may not exist by the time you migrate to it.
<greg-g> lol
<jrwren> greg-g: did you see https://lists.debian.org/debian-ctte/2014/11/msg00091.html ?
<greg-g> no, but, it's ok
<jrwren> 3 resignations in 1 month: https://lists.debian.org/debian-ctte/2014/11/threads.html#00091
<greg-g> s'ok
<greg-g> Ubuntu survived when I rage-quitted, same for jcastro :P
<jrwren> were either of you leaders in the community?
<jcastro> I would argue that ubuntu got better when greg quit
<jcastro> j/k
<greg-g> jcastro: :P
<rick_h_> ouch! beard burn right there
<brousch> So we're all moving to OpenSuse now?
<cmaloney> Wow
<jcastro> greg-g, cdimages are cloudfronted
<jcastro> dunno about the web stuff
<jcastro> god, I don't know how I lived without pushbullet
<jcastro> best. app. ever.
<cmaloney> ?
<jcastro> shows your phone notifications on your desktop
<jcastro> so like you can reply to texts, etc.
<cmaloney> Ah, you mean Pebble. ;)
<jcastro> and also push URLs etc. to your devices
<cmaloney> heh
<jcastro> so when someone texts me a URL I can push it to a device
<jcastro> isn't pebble a watch?
<cmaloney> It is.
<cmaloney> That gets my notifications
<cmaloney> I respond by looking at it and ignoring it.
<brousch> Google voice
<cmaloney> GV works only when people use your GV number
<cmaloney> Though I use Hangouts for pretty much everything
<jcastro> also pushbullet is maintained. :)
 * jcastro took his number back from GV
<brousch> Don't give out your real number!
<jrwren> jcastro: +1 pushbullet rules. I have an irssi script I wrote that uses it :)
<jrwren> oh, as for phone notifications, iOS+OSX does that OOTB :p
 * cmaloney decides against making a public bet that pushbullet will still be around in 3 years
<cmaloney> jcastro has enough of my money already. :)
<jcastro> https://www.dropbox.com/developers/blog/114/heroku-announces-dropbox-sync
<jcastro> cmaloney, it just pushes URLs around
<jcastro> it isn't rocket science
<cmaloney> jcastro: Yes, but it's a service
<cmaloney> and most services have the following lifecycle:
<jcastro> yeah but relatively easy to replace
<cmaloney> 1) Awesome. Can't live without it
<jcastro> it's not like, a life breaker if it goes away
<cmaloney> 2) Awesome, but apparently they need to make money
<cmaloney> 3) What the fuck?!?
<cmaloney> 4) Kill it with fire.
<jcastro> you forgot the other one
<jcastro> a) Build something interesting, but no idea how to make money
<jcastro> b) Get bought
<jcastro> c) Fold service, have google/apple/amazon roll it into their basic service
<cmaloney> c) Become eBay / Paypal.
<jcastro> d) Retire
<cmaloney> heh
<greg-g> jcastro: you forgot the step between a and b of "???"
<cmaloney> greg-g: Obviously
<jcastro> greg-g, "get on techcrunch!"
<cmaloney> Underpants as a Service
<jcastro> you guys watching Silicon Valley?
<jcastro> that show is basically all about this
<cmaloney> jcastro: Nope
<greg-g> fuck no
<jcastro> it's so good
<jcastro> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YOEEpWAXgU
<jcastro> this is the best.
<greg-g> I pass these on my bus ride home twice/week: http://www.businessinsider.com/diet-coke-targets-san-francisco-techies-2014-2
<greg-g> I fucking puke a little in my mouth every time
<cmaloney> You moved to San Francisco with no money, the name of your start-up and a $2,000 a week office lease
<cmaloney> you're on fucking drugs
<greg-g> cocaine, specifically
<cmaloney> Diet Cocaine
<greg-g> :)
<cmaloney> That's Cocaine mixed with artificial sweetner.
<greg-g> can't have any of that evil sugar
 * greg-g sighs
<greg-g> this fucking world
<greg-g> can I move back to MI yet?
<jcastro> ok sorry, this is actually the best Silicon Valley video, though NSFW: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFYy3oEnzVg
<cmaloney> You're in the diner hoping to end it all. You spot the packets on the table. You rip them open and start snorting for all you're worth. You're on "Diet Coke"
<cmaloney> greg-g: We have a hazardous weather outlook but you're welcome anytime. :)
<jcastro> there is snow here
<greg-g> I love the snow
<greg-g> god I miss it
<cmaloney> Damn door-to-door folks
<cmaloney> trying to sell appliance protection
<cmaloney> There goes the concentration train.
<greg-g> Working from Home Rule #3: never answer the door.
<rick_h_> hah, gotta love the sales folks
<cmaloney> https://plus.google.com/100104437033539828704/posts/V6vkZNvstxM?pid=6083442471842518546&oid=103493459351957813291
<greg-g> holy long url batman
<cmaloney> Sorry. :)
<cmaloney> It's Google Plus, so long URLs are the norm
 * DrDaemonEye now has a laser
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-11-20
<cmaloney> evening
<rick_h_> yucky ride home
<rick_h_> one idiot decided he'd just pull off to the side of the road (in the right lane) as I came up behind him
<cmaloney> ugh
<cmaloney> i think they aren't plowing or saltimg
<rick_h_> I saw one truck up by the palace
<rick_h_> doing the left shoulder
<DrDaemonEye> cmaloney: I saw them starting to plow here in AA
<cmaloney> ah, maybe they were waiting
<cmaloney> rick_h_: glad you made it home OK
<rick_h_> party
<rick_h_> holy crap! https://twitter.com/PzFeed/status/535201421596315648
<DrDaemonEye> cmaloney: probably... wanted to make sure the snow stopped before plowing it
<DrDaemonEye> rick_h_: yep.  I heard the fire and police departments were making their rounds on foot due to the snow
<rick_h_> what rounds? you'd be lucky to get to the mailbox before the end of your shift
<DrDaemonEye> lol, true there
<rick_h_> I want to see a national guard tank in that snow
<rick_h_> 6ft of it?!
<DrDaemonEye> lol.  Probably gotta figure out how to remove the gun and place a snowblower on said tank first.
<rick_h_> flame thrower tank!
<DrDaemonEye> hah!
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Which noise-canceling headphones do you have / recommend?
<cmaloney> Asking for a friend looking for recc.
<brousch> Any opinions on Jolla and Sailfish OS? https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/jolla-tablet-world-s-first-crowdsourced-tablet
<rick_h_> yay another mobile OS to find/need apps for and that won't integrate as well with everything else I own
<rick_h_> is my summary
<brousch> Linux-based. Looks like SDK is Qt
<brousch> Someone people complain that the OS non-free components
<cmaloney> Maemo was Qt based
<cmaloney> so not sure that Qt is a selling point
<brousch> Europeans seem excited
<cmaloney> Europeans get excited over anything Qt related.
<cmaloney> They were excited over the Nokia 770
<cmaloney> "Designed in Finland"
<brousch> Oh, it says it will run Android apps
<cmaloney> Honestly it'd be news if something Qt was released that Europeans DIDN'T get excited about
<cmaloney> "Blah blah is Qt based, yet curiously nobody in Europe seems to care. Experts are puzzled by this development. When asked about why nobody in Europe was interested in blah blah Simon Phipps was uncharacteristically mute on the subject."
<brousch> Ah, Jolla tablet is on slashdot. Now i can get some real opinions
<rick_h_> lol
<cmaloney> hah
<DrDaemonEye> w00t!  50 degrees on Monday!
<cmaloney> Can't get here soon enough
<greg-g> 54 and raining here now
<greg-g> two days of rain is magical
<greg-g> though, annoying for Rowan, of course
<_stink_> current sys tarball is 885MB expanded
<_stink_> plus the tarball itself is like 284MB
<_stink_> so like 1.2GB total space for this
<brousch> For what?
<_stink_> haha
<_stink_> mischan :()
<brousch> I will sell this info to the highest bidder
<_stink_> i offer 1 cent
<_stink_> do i win?
<brousch> So far
<brousch> I'll need that in bitcoins
<cmaloney> brousch: Here you go: 59dab820de33accd3f8f8dfc85ab8e8190120cb2cedd116a99ace284fc0ae535
<cmaloney> Or better yet: 5de6dae923390954d17f0f27a72e5814aca8cc5ebb62e911240b7920bfa786db
<brousch> Will I be arrested if I try those?
<cmaloney> (That's the result of `echo "Please pay Ben Tiberius Rousch the amount of $.01 in Bitcoin funny money." | sha256sum`)
<greg-g> :)
<brousch> BitCoin is 4realzyo!
<brousch> I made 11% profit on my bitcoins in 1 month
<cmaloney> And you are currently doing what with them?
<jcastro> jrwren, wanna go to washlug tonight?
<brousch> Nothing. They are back in USD until I get brave again
<cmaloney> Some faith. :)
<jrwren> jcastro: no.
<jrwren> jcastro: if I were leaving the house tonight, it would be for Nerd Night Ann Arbor.
<jcastro> not my juju talk?
<jcastro> I hate you
<jrwren> jcastro: oh, is that the topic? sorry, I didn't know.
<jcastro> it's ok, I got it
<jrwren> jcastro: when was the last time you were at lugwash?
<jcastro> going to do elasticsearch and maybe hadoop
<jcastro> I dunno, a year ago or so?
<jrwren> jcastro: ah, cool. I haven't been in at least 5, maybe 7 or 8.
<brousch> Some Linux zealots you are!
<cmaloney> When was the last time you were at MUG jcastro ? :)
<jcastro> not _that_ long ago
<brousch> I wonder if actually getting paid to work on Linux diminishes your community involvement.
<jcastro> well, I also don't live there
<cmaloney> Certainly cuts into the free time
<jcastro> ann arbor is a haul from the rest of metro detroit
<jrwren> brousch: we don't get paid to work on linux :p
<jcastro> jill still thinks we live in royal oak and is like "We're going to my mom's for dinner"
<jcastro> it's like, we don't like in RO, that's like an hour each way
<cmaloney> jcastro: I lived in Belleville. I can relate.
<brousch> That's silly. I got to MUG in 2 hours
<cmaloney> brousch: That's because nobody drives west of Telegraph.
<jrwren> i live in Ann Arbor. if it takes more than 15min to get there, it is too far.
<jcastro> dude I can't even leave AA in less than 20 minutes
<jcastro> traffic
<jrwren> jcastro: you moved to the wrong side of town :p
<jcastro> shrug
<cmaloney> Sorry, I meant US-23
<DrDaemonEye> jrwren: that is true about Ann Arbor.  :)
<DrDaemonEye> Except for when there is a game... then it is within a half hour's walk.
<brousch> Wow, I didn't think this game was over. It sure doesn't look like a win for me, but it is http://www.dragongoserver.net/game.php?gid=941896
<cmaloney> It's all about the territory.
<cmaloney> Not sure where you're getting that its a win for you
<brousch> The lower right is all dead black
<cmaloney> It's showing as contested on my screen
<brousch> It was very tricky to not die
<brousch> He is scoring it now
<cmaloney> Even so, is that going to make up the difference?
<brousch> Actually all of the blacks inside the white are dead
<cmaloney> I'm not seeing the win
<cmaloney> I'll be interested in seeing the final score.
<brousch> It's about 56 to 64
<brousch> 67
<cmaloney> Wow
<brousch> I wondered why he was being so persistent in there
<brousch> I didn't think that was enough to win
<brousch> cmaloney: Counted now http://www.dragongoserver.net/game.php?gid=941896
<greg-g> what's komi?
<cmaloney> It's a handicap for the player who goes second
<greg-g> huh
<cmaloney> brousch: Huh, interesting
<cmaloney> It can also be used for players that are unevenly matched
<cmaloney> but usually it's 6.5 points
<cmaloney> eg. brousch gives me 3 stones handicap, but adjusts the Komi so it's less (3.5 points)
<cmaloney> lots of ways to play with the final score.
<brousch> I'm playing a series of 7x7 games with a 21k. We've adjust the komi so it is very close
<brousch> 7x7 is interesting.
<cmaloney> 7x7 must be insane with you
<cmaloney> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Komidashi <- greg-g
<brousch> Why with me?
<cmaloney> It's a relatively recent addition to Go
<cmaloney> brousch: You're a capturinig machine
<cmaloney> I find if I miss one move with you I lose half my pieces.
<brousch> It's hard to capture because the walls are so close
<cmaloney> Right, but you're rather aggressive
<brousch> apparently
<brousch> I think that means I don't reinforce my position well ;)
<mrgoodcat> i havent been playing as much as i'd like
<mrgoodcat> i think the only games i'm in are with brousch and cmaloney right now actually
<mrgoodcat> and i'm playing slow at that
<brousch> cmaloney: I'm in u
<cmaloney> blergh
<cmaloney> brb
<brousch> cmaloney: Maybe you're right. I feel a little sorry for this guy (start at move 91) http://www.dragongoserver.net/game.php?gid=942322
<cmaloney> Hello from OCC
<jrwren> oh hai
<cmaloney> Man, this network is quite good
<cmaloney> Someone here is trying to play the Tetris theme on the piano
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-11-21
<rick_h_> evening
<cmaloney> evening,++
<cmaloney> Good morning
<brousch> Never give up!
<brousch> You have like 60 territory to my 30
<cmaloney> brousch: You've taken around 30 of my stones. This ceased being fun a while ago. :)
<cmaloney> And acc to my calculations you'll win by 18 points
<brousch> I think you're too pessimistic, but I accept your surrender
<cmaloney> tx
<cmaloney> Let's play again. :)
<cmaloney> 13x13. I don't think I'm ready for 19x19
<cmaloney> brb
<brousch_> Could this distro have a less-appealing name? http://www.staples.com/ACER-AMERICA-NOTEBOOKS-TravelMate-Celeron-Linpus-Linux-Notebook/product_IM1VN8679
<cmaloney> http://www.linpus.com/
<cmaloney> s/distro/company/
<cmaloney> Looks like another company trying to make a chromebook OS
<cmaloney> And of course online only
<cmaloney> (on Staples, so I can't go over to the store to play with one)
<brousch_> heh
<brousch_> cmaloney: I invited you to a 13x13
<cmaloney> brousch_: Awesome. Will accept in a bit.
<jrwren> very interesting. they are an ex-meego vendor
<jrwren> http://www.linpus.com/aboutus.html
<cmaloney> Not seeing the invite
<cmaloney> "Linpus is the only Linux vendor with research and development facilities in both Taipei and Shanghai, strategically positioned next to the main hardware manufacturers. "
<brousch_> hm, it's not in my sent either
<jrwren> its too bad that thing is $349 instead of $199. we know it alreayd runs linux, could wipe it and maybe use distro of choice :)
<cmaloney> jrwren: You read my mind
<cmaloney> That was the nice thing about the Asus Eee
<cmaloney> Until the distros expanded larger than 4GB
<jrwren> i just bought http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MNOPS1C/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
<jrwren> I haven't tried linux on it, yet. someone told me it doesn't work well.
<jrwren> broadcom wifi fail and stuff. We shall see.
<cmaloney> 2GB isn't going to be happy either
<brousch_> Ah, found the problem. I had rated game checked but you have no rating
<brousch_> jrwren: El cheapo!
<jrwren> brousch_: yup.
<jrwren> 2GB ram? that is plenty for my use cases.
<brousch_> Speed and RAM are similar to the Win8 tablets I tried. normal things ran fine, but dev became painful
<jrwren> i wouldn't dev on it.
<cmaloney> brousch_: Yeah, I should just bite the bullet and rate myself 29yu
<cmaloney> kyu
<jrwren> at least not more than basic python and go.
<brousch_> Python with vim would be OK
<brousch_> Although with a small Linux DE like LXDE you might be able to run a real IDE
<jrwren> i haven't used a real IDE in 3+yrs.
<jrwren> wait... does XCode count. ok 2.5 yrs. 3yrs ago I was using XCode.
 * brousch_ casts his lure and turns on the electric motor
 * DrDaemonEye wanders down memory lane to when he actually used an IDE to work on a project.
<DrDaemonEye> 4 or 5 years?
<cmaloney> ago?
<jrwren> now.
<cmaloney> I haven't used a real IDE since I tried bashing Eclipse to do what the Radional Rose folks at Chrysler were doing automatically to build J2EE application
<cmaloney> s
<cmaloney> And I haven't missed it one iota.
<cmaloney> vim is my IDE
<cmaloney> all hail the vim
 * rick_h_ hails
<cmaloney> (controversial statement: IDEs are generally useful when folks don't know how to make proper makefiles for their buld process. ;) )
<cmaloney> (and when you need 500 lines of template code to write "hello world")
<rick_h_> well that's because IDEs are 12 tools in one
<rick_h_> build tool, code reading tool, task tracking tool, workspace management tool, file template generation tool
<brousch_> mmmm, all in one
<rick_h_> 'OMG! they moved the button. I don't know how to build my software without the button! Crap!'
<cmaloney> rick_h_: ++
<rick_h_> or better yet, "there's a problem on production, let's install the IDE On there and rerun the build" :P
<cmaloney> Gah
<jrwren> someone told me vim is an idea, becuse they prefer nano. I eyerolled.
<cmaloney> idea or ide
<jrwren> just because an editor has nice features doesn't make it an IDE
<jrwren> sorry, bad typo.  IDE.
<cmaloney> vim can be made into an IDE
<jrwren> how?
<jrwren> what makes it an IDE?
<rick_h_> right, it's about the integration of all the various tasks a developer must do
<jrwren> GDB isn't INTEGRATED into VIM. its a vim plugin talking to GDB
<cmaloney> jrwren: jedi, fugitive, rick's .vimrc
<jrwren> that isn't an IDE.
<jrwren> nothing is "INTEGRATED"
<rick_h_> lol my vimrc is far from any big ide
<brousch_> What's the equivalent of a makefile on Windows?
<jrwren> brousch_: a Makefile.
<cmaloney> Right, IDE is too limited a term. More like a missile silo dashboard. :)
<rick_h_> brousch_: vagrant :P
<jrwren> brousch_: windows dev tools ship with NMAKE.EXE
<brousch_> Hm, so I can use make on windows if I install visual Studio?
<cmaloney> You can use something they call make with VS
<jrwren> brousch_: you can use nmake, which is NOT bsd or gnu make compatible.
<rick_h_> wheeee!
<jrwren> cmaloney: hi 5 !
<jrwren> brousch_: this is why autotools and cmake exist. :)
<jrwren> autotools does target nmake too, right?
<cmaloney> And why it's a pain in the butt to get anything with UNIX roots working under Windows
<cmaloney> jrwren: likely, but haven't looked
<cmaloney> I'd be surprised if it didn't.
<jrwren> why indeed.
<jrwren> its because MSFT love to artificially put up boundaries.
<cmaloney> Well, it's philosophies
<jrwren> don't force your philosophies on me. that is like your opinion, man.
<cmaloney> UNIX has a philosophy, and Microsoft likes to dress up in pretty berets and soupt nonsense. :)
<cmaloney> spout rather
<jrwren> cmaloney: so true.
<jrwren> i honestly beleive the IT industry as a whole is 10-15 yrs behind where it could be if MSFT would have just shipped POSIX userspace OOTB on all windows versions.
<jrwren> they had the api, they had the tools, they just wouldn't ship it!
<jrwren> bastards!
 * jrwren grumble grumble
<cmaloney> Yeah, but POSIX took a while for anyone to take seriously
<cmaloney> It had the "Standards body" sheen that nobody cares for
<jrwren> it was plenty serious by 2000 when windows 2000 shipped.
<cmaloney> like CORBA, or ANSI
<jrwren> ugh.
<cmaloney> iirc wasn't Windows one of the first major OSes that shipped POSIX complete / compliant / whatever it was?
<jrwren> know why easy_install and setup tools exist? because no make on windows.
<jrwren> know why rake exists? because no make on windows.
<jrwren> know why npm exists? because no make on windows.
<jrwren> :p
<cmaloney> heh
<jrwren> know why grunt exists? because no make on windows
<cmaloney> I also blame Windows for not shipping a C compiler
<cmaloney> though that was also the norm for decades for regular UNIX as well
<jrwren> at least they fixed that.
<jrwren> they did finally make a free compiler always available for download.
<cmaloney> knr C compiler that doesn't compile anything but kernel modules.
<jrwren> i don't blame 'em for not including it OOTB
<jrwren> cmaloney: really? which unix did that?  most I know didn't. they included a linker and kernel binaries and only linked.
<cmaloney> HPUX
<jrwren> ah.
<cmaloney> iirc
<cmaloney> Ultrix also had some weird shit in there as well
<jrwren> yeah, it was weird. OSF, ultrix, digital unix, tru64 only ever shipped on dec alpha, so they shipped kernel binaries and you would rebuild your kernel only by relinking. no source needed.
<jrwren> or did ultrix target mips too?
<cmaloney> Not sure
<cmaloney> I think it was MIPS only
<cmaloney> not sure if it ever was on dec Alpha
<jrwren> oh?
<cmaloney> at least I never saw Ultrix on a DEC alpha
<jrwren> pretty sure we had ultrix on alpha, but I may remember wrong.
<cmaloney> but we only had one alpha machine
<cmaloney> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultrix
<cmaloney> Heh, it was on VAX
<cmaloney> and PDP-11
<jrwren> ah, replaced with osf/1 for alpha.
<jrwren> cool.
<cmaloney> OSF/1 was nice
<cmaloney> I really liked it
<cmaloney> Could also be that I had root on the machine
<jrwren> yup.
<jrwren> lol.
<rick_h_> finally! a keyboard I actually have no interest in! http://atreus.technomancy.us/
<cmaloney> http://metal-and-wine.com/en/
<cmaloney> The German side also has Accept and Yello
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-11-22
<cmaloney> Good afternoon
<rick_h_> zzzz
<cmaloney> rick_h_: That good, eh?
<rick_h_> back from thge mall and now feeling like a sleepy sat
<cmaloney> What was at the mall?
<rick_h_> birthday present for michaels friend, snow boots, gloves
<rick_h_> so lego store and such
<cmaloney> Ah, cool
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-11-23
<rick_h_> evening
<cmaloney> God, Ancient Aliens is stupid
<cmaloney> watched one on how Leonardo Da Vinci must've been touched by aliens
<cmaloney> or sent through some time-travel portal
<jrwren> "i'm not saying it was aliens... It was aliens"
<cmaloney> http://skepchick.org/2012/05/guest-post-ancient-aliens/
<jrwren> cmaloney: once the anunaki started breeding with humans 6000 years ago, their alien genes were expressed in their human offspring.
<jrwren> cmaloney: this still happens from time to time... Da Vinci, Newton, Einstien
<cmaloney> jrwren: Yeah, and the aliens were the most tidy civilization in the universe
<jrwren> all had alien genes of their ancestors exprssed.
<cmaloney> not leaving any traces of anything other than human places of worship and influence
<jrwren> cmaloney: oh no, anunaki and igigi were at war.
<cmaloney> not so much as a candy bar wrapper
<jrwren> cmaloney: they left pyramids.
<cmaloney> No, people built pyramids with help
<cmaloney> from the aliens
<jrwren> cmaloney: and stone henge is a space ship landing place
<jrwren> right, people built it cz aliens made em :)
<cmaloney> Of course, because aliens apparently like to land in rocks
<cmaloney> perfectly shapen rocks of granite that aren't granite but instead are sandstone
<cmaloney> but hey, what's the difference between granite or sandstone
<cmaloney> Apparently because you're "stoneage" means you can only bash together small rocks and can't fashion straight edges or calipers
<jrwren> aliens kept 'em in the dark
<cmaloney> Good morning
<brousch_> I cannot even watch that stuff
<jrwren> i think its hilarious.
<brousch_> It makes me sad that some people who watch the show think it's real.
<jrwren> just ran into this: https://dev-nell.com/rpmb-emmc-errors-under-linux.html#disqus_thread
<jrwren> dunno how to fix without building my own kernel :(
<cmaloney> https://plus.google.com/+JoeThunderboltSmith/posts/Tz4GfD7mPHc
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-11-16
<wxl> hey folks
<cmaloney> hello
<wxl> just the cat i wanted to see cmaloney
<wxl> cmaloney: you know you guys are up for re-verification at the end of the month?
<cmaloney> Yes
<wxl> cmaloney: are you planning on going for it? anything else the lococouncil can do to help?
<cmaloney> And last time around we were encouraged to be reverified
<cmaloney> and frankly I don't feel we're active enough for verification
<wxl> i think that sustained effort of any kind if likely sufficient
<wxl> even if all you do is irc meetings or ubuntu hours
<cmaloney> We'll we've sustained a status quo of not doing a whole lot other than sitting in IRC> :)
<cmaloney> so if that counts, then woo woo
<wxl> heheheh
<wxl> well, ok. i'll just let you guys expire then :(
<wxl> however, as i said, if there's anything the lococouncil can do for you, please let me know
<cmaloney> Will do
<cmaloney> Thanks!
<wxl> np
<wxl> have a great day!
<cmaloney> you too
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-11-17
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> Gotta love that I'm ini the PR list for "The Grindmother"
<rick_h_> wheeee
<cmaloney> How's the morning?
<rick_h_> the afternoon is peachy :)
<cmaloney> Oh, right
<rick_h_> changed out of my nice customer facing outfit
<cmaloney> you're in funkytime
<rick_h_> and working in the office feeling like a regular joe hanging out in an office
<cmaloney> nice!
<Scary_Guy> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bM3Gut1hIk not linux but interesting none the less.  Alternatively BinGlide is very similar and open source
<cmaloney> Will check that ouot. THanks for that.
<_stink_> BinGlide - is that something one can buy at the pharmacy?
<Scary_Guy> https://github.com/wapiflapi/binglide
<_stink_> cool
<cmaloney> wow, that's really awesome
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-11-18
<jcastro> n0p: around?
<n0p> yo
<n0p> my email alert system still works \o/
<n0p> by the way: http://www.meetup.com/ann-arbor-php/events/226822626/
<n0p> jcastro: yo
<cmaloney> Too slow
<cmaloney> he's moved on to something else.
<cmaloney> probably telling someone how awesome Death Magnetic is or something. ;)
<n0p> i was just listening to that :boom:
<cmaloney> At least someone is.
<cmaloney> Currently Playing: Skeletonwitch - Crushed Beyond Dust
<jcastro> n0p: are you going to that meetup?
<jcastro> n0p: I need to ask you some PHP things, mind a call today?
<n0p> jcastro: yes going to the meetup, sure on the call, but not right now, going into a pair ops session to setup an ELK stack :-), how about after 4:30 ish
<jcastro> sure
<jcastro> you got my number? You can just call me whenevs
<n0p> ok
<n0p> @hubot: remind me to call jcastro at 16:45
<n0p> ...
<jcastro> hah I know right
<jcastro> do you work @ nutshell?
<jcastro> looking at the site I think this is what you were working on before?
<jcastro> man dude I just realized we haven't hung out in like 2 years
<jcastro> https://www.nutshell.com/jobs/
<jcastro> aha!
<n0p> yeah, nutshell, been here since jan 2011 :success:
<jcastro> I want to know how your ELK thing goes too
<greg-g> I want an elk burger now
<n0p> speaking of /jobs, we need peeps if anyone is interested, it's a great place
<cscheib> n0p: what're you doing with ELK?
<cscheib> I'm (re)building my ELK environment in vagrant/puppet right now.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-11-19
<n0p> cscheib: wrt Elk, consolidating application logs, exposing to customer support for deep diving, and potentially growing to replace the role kissmetrics is playing
<cmaloney> orning
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> cmaloney: your paper phase i just picked up a noteletts notebook to check out in conparison with my previous moleskin
<cmaloney> I'm not in a paper phase. Sheesh! ;)
<cmaloney> But that's cool
<rick_h_> lol
<jrwren> http://www.anewtradition.com/obituaries/obituary/12060_Charles_Alton_Forsberg
<_stink_> while sad, that's a neat obituary.
<cmaloney> I knew that name from somewhere, but had to look it up
<jcastro> cmaloney: craig
<jcastro> we're on R40 and R30 still feels like "the last new Rush album"
<jcastro> has it really been 10 years?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-11-20
<cmaloney> Yeah, it has
<cmaloney> And Friday I'm getting the CD / DVD set
<cmaloney> jcastro: ^^
<rick_h_> morning
<cmaloney> morning
<cmaloney> We're getting new phones at work so I need to get my work-day in before 4pm. ;)
<cmaloney> otherwise my network connection to my desktop machine goes *poof*
<rick_h_> lol
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Yeah, and the sad thing is they're still connecting that way with the new phones.
<rick_h_> cmaloney: nothing like networking via overpriced phones
<greg-g> because... vpn?
<cmaloney> greg-g: We're moving to a new hosted phone solution via XO
<cmaloney> our previous system was Siemens
<cmaloney> Siemens had what could be considered the worst phone menu system for voice mail access
<cmaloney> XO at least has a portal for doing complicated shit
<greg-g> but, a phone... like, you use them?
<cmaloney> greg-g: I don't but there are folks that live by the phone
 * greg-g nods
<cmaloney> Personally if my phone disappeared tomorrow I couldn't care less.
<cmaloney> Well, actually it will disappear later today
<cmaloney> ;)
<greg-g> :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-11-21
<cmaloney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBTkjdJs04U
<Scary_Guy> that's some #i3detroit level stuff :P
<Scary_Guy> bbl
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-11-22
<tony_smlr> SMLR is live - Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEK2RyrpExA
<Scary_Guy> Don't know what that is, but when I tried loading it in Firefox it crashed.  Tried again and it just froze
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-11-21
<Scary_Guy> morning
<cmaloney> morning
<jrwren> morning
<Scary_Guy> anyone ever migrate a mint install from one drive to another?  I have this SSD just sitting here
<Scary_Guy> I'm mostly wondering two things.  If I can do it since I'm using full disk encryption and also if Steam will freak out
<cmaloney> Yeah, I'm not sure
<cmaloney> I've moved from different drives, but not with encryption
<rick_h> morning
<Scary_Guy> hey
<Scary_Guy> so I go to burn UBCD and put it in the drive "oh yeah, gave it to dad"
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-11-22
<cmaloney> morning
<jrwren> morning
<_stink_> hello
<cmaloney> howdy
<jcastro> cmaloney: hey are you the list admin for mug?
<jcastro> I think my mail got stuck
<cmaloney> It went through
<cmaloney> Unless you posted another message
<cmaloney> Of course it isn't showing in the archives. :(
<jcastro> oh
<cmaloney> But it went through
<cmaloney> if you want to re-send I won't mind.
<cmaloney> Huh, apparently the archives for announce aren't working either. :(
<cmaloney> Checking if there's a problem
<cmaloney> but yeah, it did go through
<cmaloney> I got a copy
<cmaloney> Finished another interview. Woo woo.
<Zimdale> \o/
<Zimdale> How'd it go?
<cmaloney> Think it went OK
<cmaloney> We'll see if I get another interview and the "coding challenge"
<Zimdale> Anywhere good?
<rick_h> woot! coding challenge!
<rick_h> cmaloney: interview today?
<cmaloney> Yeah, had an interview just a few minutes ago
<cmaloney> still beating the bushes
<cmaloney> Zimdale: Place called "Ambassador"
<cmaloney> Referral marketing.
<cmaloney> Django / Python / REST / PostgreSQl
<rick_h> not a bad stack there
<cmaloney> Yeah, not too shabby.
<brousch__> Bad day at work. 40% laid off
<cmaloney> brousch__: Oh no. Were you one that was let go?>
<brousch__> I'm still employed. I'm the only one who can revoke all the privileges
<cmaloney> Oh fuck. :(
<brousch__> I assume I'll be let go when that's done, and maybe after surplus equipment is sold
<cmaloney> :"(
<brousch__> Don't worry about me. I had a great interview yesterday (before layoffs were announced), I have the Python side job that will give me plenty more hours, and I have 2 other interviews I could line up next week.
<cmaloney> Very cool
<cmaloney> I know I'm not worried, but it still sucks
<brousch__> How's your search going?
<jrwren> brousch__: 40%?!?!!? holy crap!
<brousch__> 11/27
<cmaloney> brousch__: slow
<cmaloney> but I have stayed primarily on Stack Overflow Jobs
<Zimdale> I talked to ambassador a lil while back
<Zimdale> was REALLY offput by the recruiting fellow
<Zimdale> However they seem like a pretty solid startup with some good income
<cmaloney> Zimdale: orly?
<cmaloney> maybe I have someone different because he seemed pretty on the level
<Zimdale> He was just super slow, disconnected and kind of rude.
<cmaloney> ah
<Zimdale> Was like pulling teeth to get information about the company from him
<cmaloney> I had that with one dude. part of the problem was his skype or whatever was terrible
<Zimdale> Ah, I didn't get past the initial phone call with them
<Zimdale> seems like they made the decision prior to calling
<cmaloney> different place
<Zimdale> ah
<Zimdale> I've only seen a few as bad as ambassador was. Mostly what I found was a pile of consulting jobs that I wasn't really interested in
<cmaloney> Yeah
<cmaloney> I've seen a lot of "your background is impressive, but your princess is in another castle"
<Zimdale> Yeah that's no fun :(
<Zimdale> I recently had a "Host this big long coding challenge and keep it hosted, and we'll get back at you if we like it or not" just to never get back at me
<Zimdale> so yeah....fuck you Hello World
<cmaloney> Heh
<Zimdale> Least have enough savings and stuff not to make the job hunt dire?
<cmaloney> Yeah, for the most part
<cmaloney> It's going to get a little dire soon
<Zimdale> That sucks
<Zimdale> no fun when you have to start accepting jobs
<cmaloney> I'll do consultintg then
<cmaloney> or writing
<cmaloney> or pimping maybe pimping
<Zimdale> mmmmm pimping
<cmaloney> brb
<Zimdale> the most noble form of work
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-11-23
<brousch__> OMC
<cmaloney> Yes?
<brousch__> Sorry, you could do a Patreon for OMC.
<cmaloney> I keep kicking that around
<cmaloney> nfortunately at what point does it become commercial
<cmaloney> that is where I would need to get lawyers and what not and make a proper llc for it
<greg-g> effing commercial :)
<greg-g> cmaloney: just stop playing -NC stuff at that point? but I know that limits a lot in the music industry
<cmaloney> Yeah, there's a lot of metal folks who are just barely on the whole CC thing as it is
<cmaloney> I've tried explaining it to folks that metal isn't heavy into sampling / commercial use
<cmaloney> punk tends to be more commercial-use friendly
<greg-g> anti-capitalists!
<cmaloney> Sort of the converstion I had with an industrial band that accidentally marked their music as CC-BY
<cmaloney> when I mentioned this, they said that all of their music needed to be licensed to play
<cmaloney> They haven't changed their bandcamp page though
 * cmaloney thinks he needs to release some music on Bandcamp to see how that works so he can help bands mark their shit accordingly
<cmaloney> But yeah, every time I hear someone screaming that CC should remove NC I think "well, there goes over half my playlist".
<cmaloney> and Eclipse Phase. And Talislanta. And ...
<cmaloney> but hey, telling artists that you're OK with making money off of their stuff even though they're not OK with that is perfectly legit. ;)
<Zimdale> clear
<Zimdale> ignore that :(
<cmaloney> no
<greg-g> I will not be cleared!
<rick_h> cmaloney: dinner pre-chc tonight?
<cmaloney> I'll be able to make it. JoDee may be a tenative third.
<cmaloney> we're waiting on company to arrive
<cmaloney> so would have to drive her back home after dinner
<cmaloney> rick_h: ^^
<rick_h> cmaloney: k, working out timing with the boss, any location preferences?
<cmaloney> Somehwere in RO would be preferable. :)
<cmaloney> but am open to anywhere down there.
<cmaloney> Anywhere in particular that you wanted to go?
<rick_h> cmaloney: no, just not sure what's changed down there. Feel like it's got to be approaching most of a year since I've been down
<rick_h> So punting on decision work to a local :p
<cmaloney> Ah, that's an awesome judo move. ;)
<cmaloney> Well, Bastones, Lockharts, and Andiamo's are still there
<cmaloney> Red Fox is still there as well
<cmaloney> Royal Oak Brewery
<cmaloney> Ale Mary's is pretty decent, but a bit small
<cmaloney> Pronto's is cool too if you like sandwiches
<cmaloney> JoDee is not coming, so it'll be just me
<rick_h> Kð
<rick_h> Any preference on your end?
<cmaloney> I'm OK with any of the above. Haven't been to Red Fox / Bastones / Lockharts in a while
<cmaloney> Ale Mary's is pretty good
<cmaloney> and Pronto's is an institution
<cmaloney> What's your preference?
<rick_h> I don't recognize bastones any good?
<cmaloney> We went there once
<cmaloney> I don't think you were terribly thrilled
<cmaloney> ;)
<rick_h> Ah nvm then :)
<cmaloney> http://bastone.net/br/dinner-menu
<rick_h> cmaloney: how about lockharts then? around 5:30-45?
<rick_h> should be able to leave here around 5pm
<cmaloney> Sounds good. See you then!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-11-24
<cmaloney> EVening and all that
<greg-g> almost!
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> It's evening over here
<cmaloney> That's all that matters. ;)
<cmaloney> morning
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-11-25
<cmaloney> morning
<Scary_Guy> morning
<cmaloney> how goes?
<gamerchick02> mornin'
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-11-26
<Scary_Guy> it goes
<Scary_Guy> got my "rock 'n' roller (tm)" cart yesterday
<Scary_Guy> two of the wheel axels had endcaps on them, which didnt' fit on with the wheels on.  dumb design
<Scary_Guy> just take them off put the wheels on and put the pins in to keep the wheels on
<Scary_Guy> so I had the idea to cut them down and put holes in them to keep them as hubcaps
<Scary_Guy> I also went to Micro Center on the wost day to go shopping ever to buy a stupid $15 adhesive USB LED light to light up the DJ console
<Scary_Guy> probalby should have gone tomorrow, it was all hand on deck.  however the one line queuing system works really well, was in and out in under $15 with the madness.  Extra staff helped though too I'm sure
<cmaloney> yeah, Microcenter can run nice when they have the staff onhand
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-11-27
<cmaloney> morning
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-11-20
<mrgoodcat> didn't know phones could get rabies
<cmaloney> THey can, and they need vaccinations
<cmaloney> Also: morning!
<cmaloney> Gotta love form letters from recruiters:
<cmaloney> "Sr. Phyton Developer"
<cmaloney> "We have an Opening on " Sr. Phyton Developer " longterm position location at Atlanta, GA location."
<cmaloney> Role: Sr. Phyton Developer
<cmaloney> Location: Novi,MI
<cmaloney> Honestly I have NFC what this is.
<_stink_> it's a new subatomic particle
<rick_h> oooh, I <3 pyhsics
<_stink_> lulz
<cmaloney> The posting is also rather precious
<cmaloney> "Beign able to mapping data"
<cmaloney> "calculations finance area"
<cmaloney> And my favorite:
<cmaloney> "Build something kind of mapping and visulization, reporting tool like cognos, Map Engine. "
<cmaloney> Unsure if position or word salad.
<jrwren> indians subcontracting back to USA
<cmaloney> Yeah
<greg-g> recommendations for a good task tracker for a volunteer group (they're planning a big conference)?
<jrwren> trello?
<rick_h> yea, trello is a basic easy for all kind of start
<cmaloney> Yeah, I'd go with Trello
<cmaloney> If you have a high bias toward OSS with hosting I'd go with Taiga.io
<cmaloney> but it's not as intuitive as Trello
<greg-g> coolio, thanks all
 * greg-g looks into Taiga.io
<cmaloney> Taiga is very developer-oriented though. Things are "user stories" and have points
 * greg-g nods
<jrwren> sounds ghastly.
<cmaloney> Nah, it's not that bad.
<greg-g> jrwren: come on, don't you do weekly task estimation with your team using playing cards?
<cmaloney> They use the pub suds methodology
<cmaloney> Go to the pub, get some beer, put the tasks on a dart board, and throw darts. ;)
<jrwren> greg-g: no, and I'd be looking for new work if I did.
<jrwren> greg-g: scrum is terrible.
<cmaloney> Scrum is really optimistic
<jrwren> is it?
<cmaloney> planning two weeks in advance can be tricky
<cmaloney> and invariably it makes people feel terrible when they don't meet their optimism two weeks before
<jrwren> tricky? I'd say for many teams it can be impossible.
<jrwren> its also very wasteful.
<cmaloney> Yeah
<cmaloney> I understand why folks graviate towards it but Scrum always feels grafted on and unnatural
<jrwren> i don't understand other than believing the sales folks
<jrwren> am tip: never believe the sales folks.
<greg-g> isn't it 1:30 over there?
<cmaloney> yeah
<greg-g> :P
<cmaloney> Honestly the biggest issuw with any of these issue tracking boards is getting folks to use it
<cmaloney> (he says about the Trello board that about half of the MUG board uses)
 * cmaloney coughs
<brousch> cmaloney: Approx. 4 people use the copy of your board I made for GRPUG
<brousch> Nope, only 3
<cmaloney> ?
<cmaloney> The Trello board?
<brousch> Yeah
<brousch> I vopied the mug board for grpug
<cmaloney> Oh for the topics?
<cmaloney> Or just the layout?
<brousch> layout
<brousch> Then cut out a couple of columns
<brousch> Having to add people to Trello is the biggest hurdle
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-11-21
<cmaloney> Yeah, we just let anyone post a comment
<cmaloney> I borrowed that idea from  UNIX Stickers
<cmaloney> morning
<_stink_> yo
<rick_h> party
<cmaloney> Are we having fun yet?
<jrwren> Do you ever feel the cortisol flood your body as a result of reading code?
<rick_h> I thought that was just blood flowing, but hey maybe?
<jrwren> need to find better stress mgmt methods, I guess :)
<brousch> Hm, I normally just feel disappointment
<jrwren> usually no biggie... but when you know where a couple of bodies are burried in teh code and you are digging them out and then find a dozen more... aaaahhh!!!
<cmaloney> jrwren: I've tried to be more mindful when I code
<cmaloney> and realize that it's just code
<cmaloney> and write things down when they occur
<jrwren> oh sure, I am pretty good about that.
<cmaloney> instead of trying to fix all the things in the moment
<cmaloney> but yeah, sometimes you inadvertently stick your hand into a hole and then realize there's a lot of sleeping wasps in there
<cmaloney> and one of them just woke up
<jrwren> lol.
 * cmaloney is still trying to parse the person who said that Virtualenvs are an antipattern discussion on github
<jrwren> its when I already was mindful, made the note, came back 2 weeks or a month later to address the issue and find the wasps that I feel it.
<jrwren> virtualenvs are an antipattern. I agreee with that ;)
<cmaloney> jrwren: Don't make me come find you
<jrwren> they are a workaround for the inability to achieve an ideal.
 * cmaloney thinks snaps are an anti-pattern. ;)
<jrwren> ideally every python program on your system would depend on teh same version of whatever libraries on which it depends.
<jrwren> achieving that ideal is hard, so we use virtualenvs instead.
<cmaloney> Yeah, this person said that pinning packages to a particular version was causing him grief
<cmaloney> and I'm thinking "If you're installing this system-wide I fear for your ssytem"
<cmaloney> but e/w.
<cmaloney> w/e
<brousch> Ideally you wipe and reinstall your OS each time you work on a different program so you don't have to worry about virtualenvs
<cmaloney> brousch: Yeah, that totally works. ;)
<cmaloney> (though that's pretty much containers in a nutshell)
<jrwren> lol
<cmaloney> honestly that is my workaround for ruby code
<cmaloney> never understood that ecosystem and how it is supposed to work
<jrwren> its just like python
<cmaloney> except not
<cmaloney> it does some strange version pinning that I didn't grok
<brousch> rake magic?
<jrwren> python has that too.
<cmaloney> well, bundler didnt help either
<cmaloney> jrwren: in the same venv? :-)
<cmaloney> not quite
<jrwren> 2 diff ver in same venv?
<cmaloney> in ruby yes
<cmaloney> it did some strange shit when i set up redmine
<cmaloney> not remembering everything that happened but i remember it felt like it was cresting a repo for many ruby versions and setups jnstead of python's one python per venv
<cmaloney> damn typos
<cmaloney> creating
<jrwren> redmine is insane though.
<jrwren> i think the python equiv would be like setting up reddit
<cmaloney> It wasn't quite that bad
<cmaloney> but yeah, it wasn't trivial
<cmaloney> and we used rbenv I think
 * cmaloney is a little foggy on details
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-11-23
<cmaloney> morning
<Scary_Guy> lol
<Scary_Guy> not for another 9 minutes it isn't
<cmaloney> Heh
<cmaloney> Happy T-day
<_stink_> gobble
