#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-11-14
<rick_h> poor lions have more chippy than play in them
<rick_h> :P
<snap-l> rick_h: Gee, there's a surprise
<jrwren_> yes the bear got ejected from teh game.
<jrwren_> poor lions.
<rick_h> snap-l: ping, don't let me forget, still have that ram in my backpack for you
<rick_h> ran into it while cleaning it out oops
<rick_h> jcastro: jjesse any suggestions for awesome travel luggage? checkout type things?
<rick_h> christmas wishlist time for the in laws and checking out http://www.amazon.com/Travelpro-Crew-Rollaboard-Black-Size/dp/B003H4Q050/ref=wl_it_dp_o_npd?ie=UTF8&coliid=I2VHB318QO6ZXY&colid=2MA8O7BXBIDWH
<jjesse> rick_h tumi laptop bag
<jjesse> its expensive
<jjesse> but nice
<jjesse> also try and carry on as much as possible
<rick_h> jjesse: yea, I'm looking for an option that with laptop backpack + carry on roller I'm set for the week
<jjesse> what airline will you be using?  united? delta?
<rick_h> right now delta
<rick_h> for my first two trips I know i have
<jjesse> try and stick w/ the airline
<jjesse> status on an airline is worth gold
<rick_h> yea, jcastro gave me some pointers
<jjesse> compared to status w/ a hotel
<rick_h> to got into the delta skymiles, hilton honors, and such
<jjesse> nice
<rick_h> figure it'll take me a few to learn the ropes
<jjesse> i'm stuck w/ united just beacuse that's what i've been flying the last 5 years
<jjesse> but delta has wifi on most of thier flights
<rick_h> ah, that's cool
<rick_h> not horribly worried about that tbh, but good to know
<jjesse> `detroit's security is actually easier to go through than grand rapids
<jjesse> for some stupid reason
<rick_h> heh
<snap-l> That's because nobody gives a fuck at Detroit
<snap-l> Man, why am I so tired.
<snap-l> About ready to go to bed
<jjesse> to much raking of leaves?
<snap-l> I think it's time-change regression
<snap-l> feels like 11pm to me
<jjesse> me 2
<snap-l> OK, I think I'm toast. G'night, all.
<rick_h> sorry for the morning spam
<mydogsnameisrudy> it is monday
<rick_h> doing some irc reconfig so lots of connect/disconnect trying to get it all setup
<mydogsnameisrudy> `what are you running?
<rick_h> irssi
<mydogsnameisrudy> ah k takes some to get it righyt
<mydogsnameisrudy> right too ;)
<rick_h_> there we go
<rick_h_> crap, not to put it in tmux
<rick_h_> ok, phew
<brousch> rick_h_: spammer!
<rick_h_> bwuhahah
<brousch> i started reading the Python Testing Beginner's Guide. It starts with doctests. Do people actually use those?
<rick_h_> no, they're frowned upon by large portions of the python community
<brousch> that's what i though
<brousch> seem so hackish
<rick_h_> but yes, some are big fans and use only them
<snap-l> rick_h_: I have a script for keeping one tmux for IRC open if you want it
<rick_h_> naw it's ok, I just had too many windows/load/reloading going
<rick_h_> got it all peachy now
<snap-l> But I want to share. :)
<snap-l> It's the OSS way. ;)
<rick_h_> then paste it anyway then :P
<snap-l> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/446/
<snap-l> Since it's 9 lines, including comments, there's probably at least 3 bugs in it. ;)
<_stink_> rick_h_: enjoying your first day? :)
<rick_h_> it's a regular docs part
<rick_h_> party
<_stink_> heh
<gamerchick02> nice, rick_h_
<gamerchick02> you don't get "shoot bambi" day off?
<ColonelPanic001> wat
<ColonelPanic001> shoot bambi?
<_stink_> i think Ford is off, at least.
<_stink_> for shoot bambi day.
<gamerchick02> day before opening day of firearms deer season
<ColonelPanic001> ah
<gamerchick02> Chrysler is
<gamerchick02> GM is
<gamerchick02> Nexteer is
<ColonelPanic001> that's kind of absurd
<gamerchick02> it's stupid really
<gamerchick02> i HAVE to take the day off and it's without pay
<ColonelPanic001> "lol huntin' time be comin', close them thar offices"
<ColonelPanic001> oh the hell with that
<gamerchick02> yep
<ColonelPanic001> that's doubly stupid
<ColonelPanic001> I'd be bitching
<brousch> i would love that. bambi killing day is my son's birthday
<_stink_> his name is Bambi Killing?
<gamerchick02> dude, i slept my ass in
<ColonelPanic001> Bambi Killing Rousch
<gamerchick02> and it's my brother's birthday
<gamerchick02> so win win
<gamerchick02> WIN
<gamerchick02> no pay, but sleeping in an extra day is almost worth it
<gamerchick02> AND i get to chew the fat with you all in here
<brousch> wow, a full 1/3 of our employees are taking vacation tomorrow
<gamerchick02> wow, that's... crazy...
<brousch> i guess i see why places shut down
<ColonelPanic001> do they also play banjo music the day after?
<brousch> i do!
<brousch> steve martin r0x
<ColonelPanic001> >_>
<gamerchick02> no, they don't play banjo music at Chrysler
<snap-l> Yet
<gamerchick02> brousch, steve martin r0x for sure
<ColonelPanic001> I think it should be required if you close the office for opening day of hunting season
<gamerchick02> "cue ominous banjos*
<gamerchick02> LOL
<ColonelPanic001> I don't think banjos can sound ominous
<gamerchick02> violins can though
<gamerchick02> *scree scree scree*
<snap-l> ColonelPanic001: after a marathon of Deliverance, I think you might want to rethink that statement
 * gamerchick02 ducks and hides
<snap-l> note: I have never seen that movie
<gamerchick02> i refuse to watch that film because of all the stuff i've heard about it
<brousch> really?
<snap-l> Really
<brousch> one of my favorites
<snap-l> And there you have it
<snap-l> Banjo-pickin, Bambi-killin' Pig Squealin' Rousch
<snap-l> some assembly required.
<brousch> welcome to west MI
<ColonelPanic001> I haven't seen it either, although I get the reference
<brousch> wtf, it is one of the greatest movies of all time
<brousch> we got to watch it in class
<snap-l> We saw Ferris Bueller's Day Off in class
<snap-l> I see the disconnect
<ColonelPanic001> snap-l wins
<gamerchick02> hehe
<gamerchick02> the same could be said about northern MI.
<snap-l> The same is said about Northern MI. ;)
 * snap-l needs to make an XMame cabinet
<_stink_> yes.
<_stink_> same here
<snap-l> but I have no wood-working skills
 * snap-l eyes rick_h_ slyly. ;)
<rick_h_> what is this?
<snap-l> Actually, I'd love to find a gutted cabinet and work with that.
<snap-l> Meme cabinets?
<snap-l> They're essentially arcade cabinets but with a computer in there emulating the workings.
<rick_h_> ah, easy. get some plywood and come over
<rick_h_> I've got everything you need for that
<jjesse> we used to have an xbox arcade in the office
<jjesse> hacked xbox running a bunch of emulators hooked up in a cabinet like an arcade
<snap-l> Yeah,
<snap-l> I have two arcade machines, but they're not suitable for converting
<snap-l> a) because I'm not crazy, and b) because they're both a cocktail and a mini version
<_stink_> i so badly want a cocktail arcade machine.
<snap-l> _stink_: Do you like Galaxian? :)
<_stink_> DO I LIKE GALAXIAN HE ASKS
<snap-l> It's a bit old, so you might want to replace the caps in it
<snap-l> but if you're up for a project, I think we can work something out
<_stink_> no shit
<_stink_> does it power up?
<snap-l> Last I checked.
<snap-l> That was a few years ago
<snap-l> I'd rather it go to a friend than to Craigslist.
<_stink_> well, if you get to the point of trying to get rid of it before we talk about it again, please remind me.  I'd love to work something out.
<_stink_> but mayyyybbe like in a few months?
<snap-l> I'm in no hurry to move 'em
<_stink_> cool.
<_stink_> thanks.
<jrwren> So why is GM/Ford off today?
<jrwren> I can't figure out how today relates to hunting.
<brousch> it is clean your gun day
<brousch> and clean out the back of your rusted pickup day
<brousch> and buy a lot of beer day
<jrwren> ok, i've never cleaned my gun, maybe I should.
<jrwren> but seriously, why today? hunting season is not until next month, right?
<brousch> tomorrow is gun opener
<jrwren> weird.
<jrwren> so they get today off,b ut have to take vacation to go hunt tomorrow?
<jrwren> that is dumb
<jrwren> oh, its always Nov15th for openner?
<jrwren> *opener
<jjesse> yeah i think always nov 15
<gamerchick02> yes, it does
<gamerchick02> it's always the 15th. and the automakers just shut down on the 14th because there are a lot of people that take vacation today
<rick_h_> yea, you have to go up and bait and such
<gamerchick02> baiting is illegal
<rick_h_> oh sorry
<_stink_> hah
 * rick_h_ isn't hunter himself, but my uncles show up to thanksgiving dinner in camo
<gamerchick02> it's illegal because of the bovine TB thing that's a problem
<gamerchick02> i don't even hunt, and i know this. i'm awful
<snap-l> gamerchick02: Nothing wrong with picking up useless bits of information
<jrwren> baiting isn't illegal anymore.
<jrwren> but you can't do it until Oct 1
<jrwren> I was just reading the MI dear guide.
<jrwren> there are only certain areas where TB is still a problem.
<gamerchick02> snap-l, i have lots of useless stuff in my brain. mostly related to old film, but you know
<gamerchick02> ah, it must be restricted then, jrwren
<jrwren> http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10363_10856_10905---,00.html   :)
<jrwren> ya'll made me curious so I've been reading.
<jrwren> the "How to field dress deer" is particularly good
<_stink_> in a sweater?
<_stink_> c'mon.
<brousch> does it cover stone tool butchering?
<jjesse_> _stink_ as long as the sweater isn't white as it is after labor day
<_stink_> haha
<ColonelPanic001> qq
<snap-l> bad command or filename
<ColonelPanic001> :q!
<snap-l> You're in a maze of twisty passages, all alike
<ColonelPanic001> w
<gamerchick02> lol _stink_
<_stink_> :P
<snap-l> West of House
<gamerchick02> how to field dress deer... perhaps they should have sweaters, hats and scarves
<snap-l> You are standing in an open field west of a white house, with a boarded front
<snap-l> door.
<snap-l> There is a small mailbox here.
<gamerchick02> they could be hipster deer
<ColonelPanic001> open mailbox
<ColonelPanic001> we need a zorkbot
<snap-l> Opening the small mailbox reveals a leaflet.
<_stink_> snap-l: is this the opening to Maniac Mansion?
<snap-l> _stink_: Turn in your geek card
<_stink_> o/o/
<ColonelPanic001> put openmetalcast advertisement in mailbox
<snap-l> It's Zork
<_stink_> damn
<snap-l> I don't know the word "openmetalcast".
<ColonelPanic001> pft. well, this is a worthless game, then
<ColonelPanic001> burn house
<snap-l> What do you want to burn the house with?
<ColonelPanic001> fire and rage
<snap-l> I don't know the word "fire".
<ColonelPanic001> well, we're in no danger of the singularity any time soon.
<ColonelPanic001> good
<_stink_> hehe
<ColonelPanic001> _stink_: when do you want to go?
<_stink_> ColonelPanic001: not sure
<_stink_> you?
<ColonelPanic001> whenever you'd like. I'm already hungry, thoguh I can wait, too
<_stink_> sorry to all of #ubuntu-us-mi for this conversation that should be on IM.
<ColonelPanic001> nope. This is vital public information
<gamerchick02> are you talking about lunch?
<gamerchick02> if so, it's very very important.
<rick_h_> hmmmm, lunch..it is time for that isn't it
<gamerchick02> it is
<gamerchick02> i'm getting hungry
<gamerchick02> i miss everyone when i'm at work
<snap-l> http://www.shoppingblog.com/blog/111420113
<rick_h_> having movie theaters open on thanksgiving robs people of family time...making my wife do rounds at the hospital robs her...let's all just stay home and if you want/need anything FUUUUUUUUUUUU
<snap-l> Frankly, I think it's stupid to have stores open early on Black Friday
<snap-l> 6am tops, but having idiots camp outside just to get a shitty TV for cheap is just stupid
<jrwren> insanely stupid given how cheap the TV is anyway.
<jrwren> but I guess even I would be tempted by a $20 bluray player :)
<rick_h_> I'm allergic to gatherings of stupid people
<rick_h_> so I just stay home and lock the doors after thanksgiving
<greg-g> rick_h_++
 * greg-g waves
<rick_h_> howdy greg-g
<greg-g> so, Ubu has now turned to point downward
<rick_h_> ?
<greg-g> as of last night
<greg-g> the little guy, his head is now pointing down
<greg-g> ie: one of the last steps and signaling he won't be breech
<rick_h_> ah, that little guy
<rick_h_> awesome!
<greg-g> yeah :)
<rick_h_> sorry, starting job today so Ubu == Ubuntu and was very confused
<greg-g> we're pretty much at term
<greg-g> haha, yeah
<rick_h_> greg-g: good stuff
<greg-g> I should start using his post-birth name: Rowan
<rick_h_> heh, ours was "peanut" for a long time
<jrwren> greg-g: congrats.
<jrwren> you naming him ubu rowan, how cute.
<rick_h_> Blazeix: http://www.androidcentral.com/htc-rezound-available-today-verizon
<rick_h_> well 2/3 are out...we're next
<greg-g> jrwren: :)
<gamerchick02> snap-l, hear hear (re black friday)
<gamerchick02> rick_h_ "allergic to stupid people"? Is there a cream for that?
<rick_h_> not yet, under development
<rick_h_> nasty side effects
<gamerchick02> like what? growing another arm (which might come in handy, if you think about it)?
<jrwren> a bit to Zaphod for me.
<gamerchick02> i can see that.
<gamerchick02> checkbook balanced, half of my hotel paid for, my car paid for december...
<gamerchick02> time for a celebratory smoke on the front porch? perhaps. oh, happy birthday to my brother.
<ColonelPanic001> smoking is bad, m'kay?
<ColonelPanic001> next you'll drive without wearing a seat belt
 * ColonelPanic001 trolls the channel
<_stink_> HELMETS
<gamerchick02> i smoke a small, flavored cigar once in awhile
<gamerchick02> it's a hobby, not a habit
<greg-g> that I can appreciate
<greg-g> either that or a pipe every now and then
<gamerchick02> and yes, i do drive without a seatbelt... from the mailbox to the driveway on the way home from somewhere
<greg-g> and by "small, flavored cigar" do you actually mean...... ;)
<gamerchick02> *huffs* no. i actually mean a small, flavored cigar.
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> hey, we all celebrate in our own special ways
<gamerchick02> don't take this the wrong way, but i don't like the fat ones *cringes*
<ColonelPanic001> I bet you don't.
<gamerchick02> oi.
<greg-g> I don't know where this just went, but I think I'm too young for it
<gamerchick02> please, pull your minds out of the gutter.
<ColonelPanic001> no.
<gamerchick02> and dust them off and put them back in your heads
<gamerchick02> greg-g, i've wanted to try a pipe
<ColonelPanic001> mmhmm
<gamerchick02> i've never smoked one. actually, saturday night was my first cigar. it was enjoyable.
<greg-g> gamerchick02: I went through a phase, when I quiting cigarettes
<gamerchick02> i don't do cigarettes. they're expensive and stinky (sorry)
<ColonelPanic001> I know some people like htat
<gamerchick02> dang. the one day i'm available for a LO Live, and they move it to Wednesday
<gamerchick02> colonelpanic001, you mean people that are expensive and stinky? i'd guess that most of the cast of the jersey shore are.
<gamerchick02> where's Wolfger?
<ColonelPanic001> ;)
<gamerchick02> i haven't chatted with him in forever.
<gamerchick02> probably he's working.
<_stink_> i was waiting for you to say "speaking of expensive and stiny"
<gamerchick02> or maybe not.
<_stink_> stinky
<gamerchick02> hehe
<gamerchick02> you're not stinky, _stink_
<gamerchick02> at least i don't think so.
<_stink_> not me
<_stink_> Wolfger :P
<gamerchick02> oh
<ColonelPanic001> _stink_ is _stink_y
<gamerchick02> i doubt he's stinky.
<gamerchick02> i miss this channel so much when i'm at work
 * gamerchick02 hugs channel
 * ColonelPanic001 defends his special place
<gamerchick02> am i the only lady in this channel?
<ColonelPanic001> that I know of, offhand. I don't know
<gamerchick02> i'm the only one with anything resembling "chick" in their name.
<ColonelPanic001> mv _stink_ _stinky_chick_
<_stink_> *poof*
<_stink_> :O
<gamerchick02> lol
<gamerchick02> you guys, i started reading the Daily WTF interviews section.
<ColonelPanic001> \o/
<gamerchick02> i've lost a couple hours.
<gamerchick02> and i realize that my interviews haven't been all that bad
<ColonelPanic001> heh
<greg-g> gamerchick02: re only female, I'm honestly not sure
<gamerchick02> *shrug* doesn't bother me.
<gamerchick02> :)
<gamerchick02> also, the "read" function of the instapaper extension in chrome is le awesome.
<ColonelPanic001> noted
<gamerchick02> actually  it's called text view
<gamerchick02> brilliant
<snap-l> Well, that was productive
<snap-l> I swear, at some point my job description will be "cleaner"
<snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleaner_(crime)
<jrwren> did someone say they don't like fat ones? /me is here.
<_stink_> ..
<jrwren> i prefer title "data janitor"
<gamerchick02> hello jrwren. that was me, referring to cigars
<gamerchick02> data sweeper?
<gamerchick02> my brother's making honey candy and it smells like bad BO and is giving me a headache
<jrwren> i ate too much sugar and caffiene and have a headache :(
<ColonelPanic001> I bent my wookie
<snap-l> and now you have a headache?
<brousch> yikes
<brousch> i thought too much about ColonelPanic001's bent wookie and now i have a headache
<ColonelPanic001> \o/
<gamerchick02> lol
<brousch> ColonelPanic001's bent wookie on a caffeine high while swimming in honey candy batter
<rick_h_> ugh, my head hurts...and no wookie bending
 * greg-g hides
<brousch> this room is really going to pot without greg-g to C0C slap us
<brousch> CoC
<snap-l> yeah, it takes a lot to offend me
<ColonelPanic001> I don't appreciate being threatened with greg-g's CoC
<_stink_> ..
<greg-g> so, about that lack of females in this channel...
 * rick_h_ hides...
 * greg-g goes to get lunch and leave this chilly coffee shop
<gamerchick02> heh
<jjesse> there's a lack of females in this gropu?
<jjesse> i thought we had our token 1
 * snap-l waits for the inevitable "no good can come from this conversation" moment.
<ColonelPanic001> that was when I joined the channel
<snap-l>  http://notinventedhe.re/on/2011-11-14 <- for rick_h_
<rick_h_> :)
<brousch> is this rick_h_ approved? http://docs.pylonsproject.org/projects/pyramid_rpc/dev/jsonrpc.html
<snap-l> Scheduled the vacation extravaganza for work.
<jjesse> yay?
<brousch> the what?
<brousch> does anyone know of a pdf reading app that syncs across devices?
<Blazeix> rick_h_: you're probably in YUI land by now, but fyi https://twitter.com/#!/jashkenas/status/136200499643949056
<Blazeix> backbone dev
<gamerchick02> ok
<gamerchick02> gotta drive back down. see everyone tomorrow night?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-11-15
<rick_h_> woot http://voices.canonical.com/ active on the agg
<rick_h_> Blazeix: yea, that sucks though
<jrwren> agg?
<rick_h_> wonder wtf is with that
<rick_h_> aggregator, planet
<jrwren> oh... congtats!
<jrwren> i never read that planet.
<rick_h_> yea, looks like lots of dupe with Planet Ubuntu
<rick_h_> but a few different
<snap-l> Wow, my little blog post on 1devday seems to be getting some traction
<jjesse> yay
<rick_h_> snap-l: awesome
<rick_h_> morning party people
<Wolfger> morning
<Wolfger> gamerchick02 will probably never see me again. She can't get on at work and I typically only get on at work.
<rick_h_> hah
<brousch> morn
<snap-l> wG'morning
<snap-l> http://openmetalcast.com/2011/11/15/open-metalcast-episode-34-something-for-everyone/
<brousch> ICS source is released. the world is good once again
<rick_h_> heh, not quite
<brousch> eh? what's holding it back?
<rick_h_> the hiding of honeycomb, the fact that it's just not getting open/dropped. Still not "open source" etc
<brousch> all of the honeycomb stuff is there too
<rick_h_> right, but all markers/tags/etc are removed
<rick_h_> <3 git
<brousch> maybe it really is crappy
<brousch> anyways, i'm looking forward to cyanogenmod9 on my droid and nook color
<brousch> rick_h_: you see this one? http://news.slashdot.org/story/11/11/14/2328232/android-ice-cream-sandwich-source-released
<brousch> blah, sorry
<brousch> i meant this one http://lucumr.pocoo.org/2011/11/15/modern-web-applications-are-here/
<brousch> interesting stuff
<rick_h_> yea
<rick_h_> it's how the new bookie ui works
<rick_h_> though without websockets
<snap-l> http://www.ecsspert.com/atari.php
<brousch> i'll have to look at it
<brousch> snap-l: scary
<snap-l> Yeah, that's pretty neat.
<brousch> rick_h_: CSS in less?
<rick_h_> brousch: http://lesscss.org/
<rick_h_> sass but with javascript/node instead of ruby
<brousch> ah! i was having trouble parsing it as a sentence
<brousch> oooh, no ruby is a ++
<rick_h_> sorry, tired today
<brousch> rick_h_: busy absorbing massive amounts of information about launchpad?
<rick_h_> heh, yea. I've never worked on a project with several teams of 4 people at the same time
<rick_h_> email overload, info overload, new tech overload
<rick_h_> and I have to resist trying to figure out how to redo it all :P
<brousch> did you happen to measure your head beforehand? i'm interested to see if it actually grows
<snap-l> rick_h_: Rockstar: achievement Unlocked.
<rick_h_> though I did do my first merge proposal on LP yesterday
<rick_h_> so I can almost use the tool I'm working on :)
<rick_h_> snap-l: heh, we'll see
<rick_h_> go get your GoF book and read: http://www.muthukadan.net/docs/zca.html#an-example along with me now
<brousch> oh crap, zope
<rick_h_> lol
<snap-l> n/url 1
<brousch> i'd like to take a year off of everything else and learn zope+plone
 * snap-l still hasn't read through the GoF book
<rick_h_> heresy!
<snap-l> maybe it's because I have the HTML version, and it's a pain to read. ;)
<Wolfger> GoF?
<snap-l> Design Patterns, aka the Gang of Four book
<Wolfger> ah, I see. It's not enough to nickname the book, we have to also make and acronym for the nickname
<Wolfger> a/and/an/
<Wolfger> s
<Wolfger> dammit
 * Wolfger quits typing fo the day
<snap-l> Wolfger: Yep.
<snap-l> http://notinventedhe.re/on/2011-11-15/comic
 * rick_h_ looks away
<Wolfger> wtf? Amazon is selling the 4-book box set of Game of Thrones cheaper in paperback (with box) than in kindle edition.
<Wolfger> when a physical product is cheaper than a digital product, somebody's doing something wrong
<snap-l> Wolfger: That's because publishers set the prices on some of their books.
<snap-l> But yeah, I think that's precious
<snap-l> Surest sign of a publisher that doesn't quite "get it" are the ones that charge hardcover prices for their eBooks, even when the paperback book prices is way cheaper.
<Wolfger> http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2011-11-15/
<rick_h_> ok, ssh gurus, I've got a ssh key in .pem format
<rick_h_> I need a .pub?
<rick_h_> halp?
<Milyardo> pem is a base64 encoded key
<Milyardo> what's the problem exactly?
<rick_h_> I need a seperate pub/private files so I can add the pub to launchpad
<Milyardo> ssh-keygen -E key.pem
<Milyardo> -E switch says the cert it PEM format
<Milyardo> man ssh-keygen
<rick_h_> yea, not seeing -E
<rick_h_> ssh-keygen: illegal option -- E
<rick_h_> ssh-keygen -e -m PEM -f maybe
<Milyardo> Yes, sorry, I was looking at a BSD man page
<rick_h_> bah, won't accept that...grrr. Maybe new key time I guess
<Milyardo> You also have to use the other flags you typcally use with ssh-keygen
<Milyardo> ie, -i to genereate a compatible private or public key
 * ColonelPanic001 rages
<brousch> ColonelPanic001: what do you have against The_Machine?
<The_Machine> I had sex with his wife.
<The_Machine> Sorry about that.
<_stink_> :O
<ColonelPanic001> >_>
<The_Machine> =D i kid.
<_stink_> :P
<ColonelPanic001> I was sure he was serious
<jrwren> rick_h_: ssh key in pem?
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, aws stuff
<jrwren> oh damn I did that once, but i've long forgotten.
<rick_h_> nvm though, didn't need to add it to LP after all, just some ssh add of the right keys to get things to work
<jrwren> keyforwarding ftw!
<jrwren> http://askubuntu.com/questions/79024/network-does-not-come-back-after-a-unclean-shutdown-poweroutage-var-run-netwo
<rick_h_> running launchpad tests on ec2 ftw
<jrwren> anyone have issue with stale /var/run/network/ifstate after an unclean shutdown?
<rick_h_> don't think so
<brousch> jrwren: i have weird issues with wifi if i turn wifi off and back on
<brousch> basically i have to reboot to get wifi back
<jrwren> ick. that sucks.
<brousch> sounds like a problem in the same general area
<jrwren> nah, this is just a stale file
<jrwren> that sounds like a driver issue
<brousch> no, i have it on two different computers
<brousch> intel and ralink
<jrwren> if you can't ifdown eth0;ifup eth0 and get things to work, that is different than what I have
<brousch> i'll check the state next time
<rick_h_> hmm, so U1 syncs your Ubuntu One folder across devices right?
<rick_h_> by default and all that?
<snap-l> rick_h_: Yes, it's kinda like drop-box
<rick_h_> except it won't copy the files down to my desktop machine. They're on my laptop, and on the web interface
<rick_h_> but not the other machine connected
<snap-l> What does u1sdtool -s say on the "other machine"?
<rick_h_> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/449/
<snap-l>  u1sdtool -q
<snap-l> and then u1sdtool -c
<snap-l> Sometimes it gets wedged.
<rick_h_> heh, only added one test file
<rick_h_> and no worky
<rick_h_> same -s and no file
<rick_h_> oh, there it goes
<rick_h_> oh wtf...
<snap-l> And there's the other shoe
<snap-l> Which is why I have my read and review list synced via dropbox
<rick_h_> yea, I guess  it's ok. Wanted to try to use it for screenshot sharing
<rick_h_> obviously doing a lot of that fixing bugs/etc
<snap-l> because U1 is a bitch when it comes to files that change or moving around files
<snap-l> It's strange how it's set up, because it doesn't act like a filesystem
<snap-l> it acts very much like couchDB for files.
<snap-l> so moving a file = delete old record, and hope that it generates a new record in the interim
<snap-l> Though I like the sharing aspect of U1 better than Dropbox
<snap-l> Great. Got Bro-in-law's machine. Apparently he has the anti-spyware trojan on it
<snap-l> what a pain
<snap-l> and I got an edict not to put Linux on it
<rick_h_> how about dos?
<snap-l> hah
<snap-l> Well, I'm copying off everything on the drive
<snap-l> it's an Asus EeePC 1000HD
<snap-l> But yeah, talk about hamstrung from the obvious solution
<Wolfger> tell him if you can't put Linux on it and he doesn't have the master to reinstall from, you can't fix it.
<snap-l> not good enough. They don't have $$ for a new machine
<snap-l> Though I'm going to try to get all of their Windows needs neatly coralled
<Wolfger> well, cost has always been a good reason to switch to Linux
<Wolfger> Maybe I'm just a bad family member...
<snap-l> Frankly, there's only a handful of things that I'm not sure can be replaced
<Wolfger> I have long since told everybody that comes to me for help that the answer to their Windows problems is to stop using Windows. I'll gladly service their machines for free, but I fix them my way.
<Wolfger> Some people went Linux and were happy with it, some went with Linux and tolerated it, others quit coming to me for help. Problem solved across the board.
<jrwren> snap-l: is he paying you?
<Wolfger> thankfully nobody has come to me for help since 11.04 launched, because I have no idea what I'd install for them anymore.
<snap-l> jrwren: It's called the family trust
<snap-l> he gets called whenever there's a car issue
<snap-l> I get called whenever there's a computer issue
<Wolfger> ah, well, that's a good trade off
<brousch> snap-l: but do you drive a nasty old beater that has constant problems and refuse to get a new car?
<jrwren> great trade.
<snap-l> brousch: Point. ;)
<jrwren> you did by a chrysler. give it 18mo.
<brousch> i have one windows user who has not gotten the hint despite my constant whining about helping him. so now when he asks for help i make him wait 3 weeks
<jrwren> who this?
<snap-l> I really hate the Panera commercials
<snap-l> "I make babies cry, love long walks on the beach, and I'm a Panera Baker"
<brousch> what's a commercial?
<snap-l> That thing that happens when TV stops sucking
<brousch> greg-g: what do you use to backup your flickr?
<greg-g> brousch: lemme check :)
<greg-g> brousch: apparently I am doing both offlickr and flickrtouchr
<greg-g> brousch: I think one does metadata better while the other does... something better?
<greg-g> I remember thinking "I'll figure out which one I like the results of better, and just use that" about 6 months ago
<brousch> heh
<brousch> i like flickr but want to be prepared for when yahoo dies
<ColonelPanic001> http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/md61v/i_am_law_professor_and_activist_lawrence_lessig/
<greg-g> brousch: indeed. Also, I am excited for my coworkers (poorly named) project MediaGoblin, see mediagoblin.org
<brousch> shouldn't that be GNU/mediagoblin?
<greg-g> it is, actually. GNU MediaGloblin, or GMG
<brousch> i saw that and had to comment ;)
<greg-g> :)
<brousch> so it's like identi.ca for media?
<brousch> status.net for media?
<greg-g> kinda yeah, though the federation isn't implemented yet
<greg-g> more like a federated flickr, really (images, videos, commetns, tags, metadata, galleries, etc)
<snap-l> cwebber is a part of this, isn't he?
<greg-g> yep!
<snap-l> Man, there si so much crap on a Windows XP instance.
<greg-g> it's his project
<snap-l> greg-g: Oh, well that stands to reason, then. ;)
<greg-g> snap-l: I forget, you know Chris?
<snap-l> Not personally, but through identi.ca
<greg-g> ah, right
<greg-g> he's good stuff. CC's lead dev
<snap-l> I don't think I know any CC folks other than yourself
<snap-l> I knew Priyanka from SF, but she moved to Wikipedia
<snap-l> and several folks moved to Canonical / Mozilla
<greg-g> Asheesh Laroia/paulproteus was a dev there
<greg-g> if you know him.. that is
<snap-l> I don't recall our paths crossing
<greg-g> oh well
<brousch> i think federated is too complicated to really take off
<brousch> what do we have that's federated now that "everyone" uses? email?
<greg-g> yep
<snap-l> Google Chrome sync, but that's not really "federated"
<greg-g> so, federated only matters to the geeks
<snap-l> Well, there's no compelling reason for federation right now
<greg-g> everyone else will join the big cool instance that their friends are on, see: joindiaspora
<brousch> what would be useful for flickr is a mirror of all your flickr stuff that gets synced to a usable web site
<brousch> so when flickr gets evil, you're all set
<brousch> if you use your own domain and rediect to flickr, then you can turn it to your mirror
<Wolfger> greg-g: "so, federated only matters to *SOME* geeks" <-- fixed that for you
<snap-l> I think there's a larger number of geeks that care about federation
<Wolfger> >0, yes
<snap-l> They might also be rather pragmatic about the whole thing.
 * ColonelPanic001 likes the Federation.
<Wolfger> Bah. The Klingon Empire is far superior
<brousch> grrrrrrrr, shotwell http://redmine.yorba.org/issues/3445
<ColonelPanic001> I can't argue much with Wolfger
<ColonelPanic001> Im watching a loco cast about vim splits
<ColonelPanic001> at the top, I swear there's a menu item that says "rapevim"
 * ColonelPanic001 glares at Rick
<rick_h_> ropevim
<ColonelPanic001> nope. RapeVim
<brousch> so many ways to go with that, but none of them appropriate
<brousch> i'm installing digikam. i fear this could lead to further qt/kde usage
<ColonelPanic001> rick_h_: do you never use tabs at all?
<ColonelPanic001> (also, nice screencast)
<brousch> oh man, digikam is much more powerful than f-spot and shotwell
<ColonelPanic001> I've never used it
<jjesse> yay for qt/kde usage
<brousch> it seems that while Gnome was busy recreating a photo managing app over and over again, kde was busy making a really f-ing nice one
<jjesse> its pretty powerful, i read some of the blog posts from one of the main author and suprised at how much it can do
<ColonelPanic001> <3 KDE
<brousch> i'm gonna set it to import my 15,000 photos tonight and see if it asplodes
<brousch> then i'll try out its detect duplicates feature and hopefully prune them down to 5000
<snap-l> while(i==0)
<rick_h_> ColonelPanic001: NEVER!
<snap-l> i = Math.abs(rnd.nextInt() % 56);
<rick_h_> ColonelPanic001: there are three more there, go get them
<snap-l> correct me if I'm wrong, but that generates all random numbers from 0-55, correct?
<snap-l> (this is Java code)
<ColonelPanic001> rick_h_: saw, going to, yeah
<ColonelPanic001> rick_h_: just curious. I never have before, kind of had it back-burnered to check them out sometime, maybe I'll push it to an even further back burner
<rick_h_> there you go
<rick_h_> don't go trying to learn new stuff all at once...headaches are expensive :P
<ColonelPanic001> snap-l: wouldn't that just generate one? It only gerenated one random 1-55
<ColonelPanic001> if it's zero, loops to do it again
<snap-l> Well, iirc it generates a float from 0 - 1 unless you give it a size
<snap-l> but then you're taking that float from 0-1 and then modding it with 56
 * snap-l is going to have to public static void(String args[]) to see
<snap-l> public static void main(String args []) {
<snap-l> Bah, fuck Java in the neck
<snap-l> public static void main(String[] args) {
<ColonelPanic001> I can't do that.
<ColonelPanic001> I am not that talented.
<snap-l> No wonder people use Eclipse
<ColonelPanic001> <3 Eclipse
<ColonelPanic001> the only java I do is for Android. Eclipse saved my mind
<ColonelPanic001> rick_h_: what was "DrChip"?
<ColonelPanic001> You can't put all kinds of mysteriously-named menu items on a screencast and not tell us about the goodies
<snap-l> OK, I think I missed something
<snap-l> checking...
<snap-l> suspicion confirmed
<snap-l> Developer carefully gathers seeds the random number generator from epoch seconds, then uses a number from 0-55.
<snap-l> note: this is supposed to be a very random number.
<snap-l> *sigh*
<snap-l> and the only reason for not chosing heavy drinking is because I'm on allergy meds.
<snap-l> choosing, rather
<snap-l> (well, that and I'm at work, and have this yoke of responsibility that I proudly wear)
<brousch> from crazy_paranoid_shit import seriously_fucking_random as random
<ColonelPanic001> want to figure out what dumb thing I'm doing in vim instead?
<snap-l> (and the only booze in the house is a 1/3 bottle of Cab Sav)
<snap-l> ColonelPanic001: Sure. Lay it on us.
<ColonelPanic001> wait - in a .vim plugin file, is it picky about tabs vs. spaces?
<ColonelPanic001> maybe that's why this isn't working
<snap-l> not sure, but what's the problem you're having?
<ColonelPanic001> http://www.koch.ro/blog/index.php?/archives/63-VIM-an-a-PHP-IDE.html#id2
<ColonelPanic001> I'm trying to do that Codesniffer integration thing there
<ColonelPanic001> he gives a snippe there to copy and paste. I do. Nothing happens when I do :Phpcs
<rick_h_> ColonelPanic001: ? DrChip?
<ColonelPanic001> it was in your screencast
<rick_h_> ah, don't recall tbh
<ColonelPanic001> no problem, just randomly curious
<snap-l> ColonelPanic001: Do you have phpcsw installed?
<ColonelPanic001> yeah, I can do "phpcs whatever.php" fine
<ColonelPanic001> in vim, I get nothing. No error either, though
<snap-l> Have you restarted vim?
<ColonelPanic001> yeah, opened a new one to try it
<snap-l> Do you see any errors when you fire up vim?
<ColonelPanic001> you know, hang on. I am dumb
<ColonelPanic001> that "standard" set to YMC? on the cli, that throws an error, saying it's not installed
<snap-l> ;)
<snap-l> The computer can only yell so much
<ColonelPanic001> ugh, so now it comes up like if you do a ":! command", not sure of the name there
<ColonelPanic001> the "Press ENTER or type command to continue" type thing.
<ColonelPanic001> and shows raw CSV
<ColonelPanic001> this blog is such a tease
<ColonelPanic001> only shows the first one, too.
<ColonelPanic001> checking to see if the errorformat is right. meh, it's not vital anyway
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-11-16
<snap-l> Played with the B&N Tablet and Simple Nook
<snap-l> I R impressed
<rick_h_> yea?
<rick_h_> they had the tablet there?
<rick_h_> or the nook color?
<snap-l> Well, the Tablet handled the killer PDFs
<rick_h_> I though the tablet wasn't out until wed/thurs
<snap-l> They just got the tablet in
<rick_h_> ah, nice then
<snap-l> It'll be out "tomorrow"
<snap-l> Yeah
<snap-l> found where the SD card is on the color / tablet
<snap-l> I like the reader a lot better on the Tablet than on the color
<snap-l> but the color is supposed to get an update soon
<rick_h_> jcastro: ping
<snap-l> My beef with teh Simple Touch Noon is that the PDFs can't be zoomed in without reflow
<rick_h_> yea
<snap-l> and you can't use landscape mode either
<snap-l> but it's interesting that the reader application can get "stuck" but not require a reboot
<snap-l> ie: you can kill the reader app
<brousch> snap-l: don't get too used to the reader app. you will install cyanogenmod
<jjesse> snap-l you get a new phone?
<jjesse> is this thing on?
<rick_h_> morning
<snap-l> Morning
<rick_h_> grumble grumble...
<snap-l> That good, eh?
<rick_h_> well been trying to "lang" my "bugfix" (adding one css class to something) since monday but my tests kept failing
<snap-l> "lang"?
<rick_h_> and I was told "oh, that looks random...run again" which takes 4 hours
<rick_h_> sorry, land
<snap-l> Was hoping I wasn't missing out on some new lingo in the bugverse
<rick_h_> finally today buildbot breaks and everyone's like "Where did that come from?" and I've been trying to say it was broke since monday
<snap-l> rick_h_: oops
<rick_h_> so I beat my head on a wall thinking I did something horribly wrong...
<rick_h_> my brain hurts from this week, and part is trying to dive in over my head to find out wtf is causing that bug to break lol
<snap-l> I believe that's called "learning experience"
<rick_h_> oh yea :P
<snap-l> Someone is talking on the Python mailing list about implementing Python in Javacript
<snap-l> and someone mentioned trying to compile pypy with pyjamas.
<rick_h_> not enough node in my python
<rick_h_> "well work around the GIL yet!"
<snap-l> Hah
<snap-l> I'm not sure I want to live in a world where languages sit on top of the Javascript interpreter. It's too much like Java, only more weird.
<Wolfger> morning
<brousch> werd
<mydogsnameisrudy> morning
<rick_h_> installing perl packages fun
<Wolfger> woot
<Wolfger> never heard of that package.... I'm'a try "use fun;" in my next script. :-)
<rick_h_> hah, yea it's a winner
<Wolfger> right underneath "use less('java');"
<snap-l> I think you need a require instead of use
<snap-l> "require less(java)"
<mydogsnameisrudy> demands more fun
<Wolfger> Haha! http://www.freep.com/article/20111116/COL41/111116013/Facebook-porn-attack-an-eyeful-many
<Wolfger> Doesn't everybody use NoScript?
<Wolfger> or common sense?
<Wolfger> oh, wait.... Facebook users.... nevermind
<brousch> nodoy uses noscript
<brousch> nobody
<rick_h_> greg-g: what did we use to run for imap filtering?
 * Wolfger questions brousch's definition of "nobody"
<Wolfger> I think more people use NoScript than Diaspora... ;-)
<snap-l> rick_h_: it wasn't procmail, was it?
<rick_h_> no, it was python based
<rick_h_> blanking, I'll search for it later
<snap-l> kk
<rick_h_> bug figured I'd lazy-greg it since he probably still runs it :)
<snap-l> rick_h_: You're really becoming the yoda of this room.
<snap-l> "bug figured I'd"
<snap-l> ;)
<rick_h_> damn
<rick_h_> I can't type today, did I mention I'm tired and head hurts?
<rick_h_> actually, fighting off a cold everyone else is getting so I blame that
<snap-l> Yeah, I have a cold as well
<snap-l> getting over it
<snap-l> started around Sunday-ish
<brousch> Wolfger: ok, only the most paranoid geeks run noscript
<Wolfger> We don't want to hear any excuses.
<brousch> which is a very small number of people
<Wolfger> paranoid?
<Wolfger> Just safe.
<Wolfger> also, helps cut down on the crap. Some sites are loaded with crap scripts that are all due to the ads
<snap-l> Just run AdBlock
<Wolfger> I run that too
<snap-l> takes the crap out of the net
<Wolfger> but it doesn't block scripts
<snap-l> You're breaking the new web
<Wolfger> I've seen the new web (on other people's computers). I have no idea how anybody can live without adblock and noscript
<Wolfger> I might never get on the web again without them
<brousch> i avoid those annoying web sites
<brousch> if a web site is full of flash crap, ads, and rogue scripts, do i really want to be there?
<snap-l> http://www.freep.com/article/20111116/NEWS06/111160395/No-such-thing-free-lunch-There-state-lawmakers-Lansing?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE
<Wolfger> I used somebody else's IE to get to a site one day and there were all these ads, and flashing lights, and pop-up windows, and I'm like "how can you stand to use the internet like this?"
<Wolfger> no such thing as a free lunch.
<Wolfger> The article that claims there is clearly points out the cost...
 * Wolfger slaps a reporter
<snap-l> The point is that there are lobbyists paying for lunches for legislators
<snap-l> just pointing out something that probably has been going on since there were legislators
<Wolfger> Oh yeah. Buying time with lawmakers is as old as the practice of making laws
<Wolfger> I'm just grumping that they are completely ignoring the meaning of the saying "TANSTAAFL"
<Wolfger> "free lunch" has never been about just money. It's the idea that you always have to do *something* to get your lunch, whether it's listen to a sermon or listen to a lobbyist.
<Wolfger> http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/50928/dealing-with-profanity-in-source-code
<Wolfger> soft expletives?
<jjesse> cloud and ubuntu webcast going on thru bright talk right now if anyone is interested
<jjesse> pretty boring so far, very high level lots of "this is what cloud computing" is
<snap-l> Wolfger: I'd suggest staying away from p.se
<rick_h_> hmm, what time was the android announcement stuff today?
<Wolfger> snap-l: I forget... which se sites did you have the highest rep on? ;-)
<snap-l> Wolfger: Shush
<snap-l> Just because I rep-whored on a "what would I have done differently" question. ;)
<Wolfger> and I'm pretty sure it was you that kept sending p.se links to this room, which caused me to have a login there in the first place.
<rick_h_> hmm, does twit.tv not load for anyone else?
<Wolfger> p.se is where I go when I want to feel superior to other people. Stack Overflow is where I go when I want to remember how little I really know.
<snap-l> live.twit.tv
<snap-l> but yeah, the site is offline
<snap-l> drupal showing through
<jjesse> hrmm on this ubuntu and cloud webcast mark is saying that canonical will start hosting clouds for customers
<jjesse> w/ on demand provisioning
<snap-l> Nice.
<snap-l> You have to register to watch it?
<snap-l> Screw that.
<jjesse> yeah
<jjesse> and its flashed based
<jjesse> https://pages.canonical.com/ubuntu-cloud-jumpstart
<snap-l> Oh well
<jjesse> 9k and and you get 5 days of a canonical employee setting up a ubuntu cloud infrastructure
<snap-l> Get started immediately with Ubuntu Cloud for $9,000
<snap-l> Your cloud will run industry-standard software and be compatible with the major public clouds from HP, Rackspace and Amazon. You provide the hardware, we guarantee your cloud result.
<snap-l> erm...
<_stink_> can i send the 4 P-II machines i have in my basement?
<jjesse_> yeah not quite sure how exciting that is
<snap-l> I mean, if you're paying $9K for someone to just install Ubuntu on cloud machines, pardon me if I don't stand up and shout for joy.
<jjesse> well they should be giving you some training/knoweldge transfer on how ot use it?
<snap-l> I guess we're not the audience for this
<jjesse> 9k for a week is normal consulting rate
<jjesse> $225/hour
<jjesse> not that bad, especially if that includes travel and expenses
 * snap-l makes a note to come back as a consultant in his next life
<_stink_> hah
<Wolfger> nice work if you can get it
<Wolfger> but how much time will you spend at $225/hr versus $0/hr?
<snap-l> Anyone need a work-life coach? I'll stand over your shoulder and tell you "You're doing it wrong"
<snap-l> $50/hr
<snap-l> (cheap)
<rick_h_> oooh, that sounds promising
<snap-l> Apparently we're blowing up jjesse's internet. ;p)
<jjesse> yes
<jjesse> stupid crappy wifi at work
<rick_h_> Blazeix: man, I'm not happy with the way things are looking: http://www.androidcentral.com/amazon-uk-has-galaxy-nexus-slated-dec-2
<rick_h_> http://www.androidcentral.com/uk-galaxy-nexus-availability-updated-some-delayed-until-next-week
<Blazeix> rick_h_: LA LA LA LA I can't hear you
<rick_h_> Blazeix: ok fine, but when you get yours on time make sure to get mine as well
<rick_h_> less I have to wait for the major delayed release date of Jan 2012 or some crap
<krondor> they delay it much longer and everyone will just throw ICS Cyanogen on their existing phones :)
<Blazeix> it will be delayed just long enough to get me interested in rumors for another upcoming phone.
<rick_h_> Blazeix: you know you really wanted quad core anyway :P
<Blazeix> htc zeta or bust
<snap-l> Your Android lust is precious
<snap-l> It's like hoping the next one will be the Jesus phone. ;)
<snap-l> Come to the Apple side, where we wait every 6 months to see what Apple pinches off
<Blazeix> I did the exact same thing with my current phone. I was following the motodroid from June to it's release in november.
<rick_h_> same with my incredible
<snap-l> Dueal core, quad core. Phsaw. Apple phones have "just enough cores"
<rick_h_> Jan->june I believe
<Blazeix> heh, apple cores
<snap-l> Well, what sucks about Android is not the hardware, but figuring out what the carrier screwed out of existence.
<Blazeix> i've been going with the 'google experience' phones so far, so i haven't seen that
<snap-l> "we wanted to differentiate our phone by making it unable to do anything with Bluetooth"
<snap-l> (or some silly shit like that)
<snap-l> You need a domineering personality (like, say, Steve Jobs) to say to the carriers: "If you so much as remove a period from this OS, I will come to your office, pop your head off like a cheap Pez dispenser, and use your bloody neck as a commode".
<Blazeix> that's sort of the idea of the 'google experience' branding. you don't have sense, blur, etc.
<brousch> snap-l: no, steve jobs would have cried until the carriers gave in due to embarrasement
<snap-l> brousch: That's because he wouldn't have had any TP
<snap-l> That would be upsetting.
<brousch> had to go have my wife's car towed. took 90mins
<brousch> well, 2 hours if you include my drive time
<brousch> darn subaru is falling apart at only 120k miles
<jcastro> snap-l: are you in RO still?
<snap-l> jcastro: Yep
<jcastro> so I just called Congressman Peter's office
<jcastro> to say I wanted him to stop SOPA
<jcastro> and like, a real person answered
<jcastro> she was nice
<jcastro> anyway, 202-225-5802
<jcastro> call
<snap-l> jcastro: Thanks.
<jcastro> Senator Levin has a voice mail, and I left one there too
<jcastro> http://www.contactingthecongress.org/cgi-bin/newseek.cgi?site=ctc2011&state=mi
<snap-l> Yeah, I senr e-mail
<jcastro> don't send email, they don't read that shit
<jcastro> call
<snap-l> Called
<snap-l> And yes, they have real people answeing the phone
<brousch> americans?
<snap-l> Yep
<snap-l> http://www.engadget.com/photos/hp-envy-15-envy-17-and-envy-17-3d/#4607468 <- Apparently it's time for the cheap knockoffs
<brousch> i was under the impression that all android phones were cheap knock-offs of iphones
<Blazeix> the hp envy model has been around forever
<Blazeix> forever is two years in this case
<greg-g> rick_h_: imapfilter, which is a great name, straight and to the point :)
<snap-l> Blazeix: You lie. I just saw it on reddit, so it must be more recent. ;)
<snap-l> I only live in the now
<snap-l> Just a reminder that tonight is Detroit-ish Coffee House Coders at 8pm. Hope to see you there! http://ur1.ca/5v9ex
<snap-l> lmorchard: ^^
<snap-l> lmorchard: ^^
<snap-l> lmorchard: ^^
<Wolfger> snap-l: Detroit-ish?
<snap-l> Yeah, it's royal Oak, but if you say that, nobody'll come
<Wolfger> the location is not Detroit. Are any of the attendees?
<Wolfger> suburban CHC
<snap-l> Pfft
<Wolfger> Metro Detroit CHC
<Wolfger> wayne county chc
<snap-l> Royal Oak isn't Wayne County
<Wolfger> tri-county chc
<snap-l> How about the "just show the fuck up" CHC? :)
<Wolfger> what the hell? I just got an e-mail from MySpace.
<snap-l> HIT THE DIRT!
<Wolfger> somebody I never heard of friended me there
<Wolfger> I did not know MySpace still existed
<snap-l> D3WD, TX 4 T3H 4DD$
<Wolfger> What next? Geocities?
<snap-l> HERE'S MTY N00 ALBUM FRUM MY B4ND
<Wolfger> LiveJournal?
<Wolfger> actually, I know LJ is still around. I know some people still use it
<Wolfger> I don't know why...
<snap-l> http://mfile.akamai.com/65764/live/reflector:39480.asx?bkup=39655&prop=n <- Here's how the Internet dies
<greg-g> yep, pathetic,. I had to stop watching
<jjesse> that the SOPA Live stream?
<snap-l> Yeah
<snap-l> This is ridiculous
<jjesse> whose stupid idea was it?
<jjesse> this law?
<snap-l> This Marino  guy is a jackass
<snap-l> Please do tell people that they have the technology to detect infringing material, even though we don't.
<snap-l> Man, this is like a room full of blind people trying to build an elephant
<Wolfger> will somebody please point out the numerous examples of Big Content filing takedown notices against IP they don't actually own?
<Wolfger> they already abuse the existing power, and they want more?
<snap-l> Amazing that Mr. Marino knows that Google can figure out unauthorized content, when even the courts can't  sort out copyright law. #SOPA
<ColonelPanic001> \o/
<greg-g> btw, did you all see this https://github.com/github/gitignore ?
<rick_h_> ha nice
<brousch> geez
<rick_h_> http://www.cracked.com/article_18720_7-famous-movie-flaws-that-were-explained-in-deleted-scenes.html made my day
<snap-l> hah
<snap-l> Listening to a concerence call.
<snap-l> aka: the Q3 WTF just happened.
<ColonelPanic001> snap-l: maybe a dumb question, but what's the confusion over Doyle's writings? Aren't they all public domain?
<ColonelPanic001> it was, like, along time ago and stuff
<snap-l> you might think. ;)
<snap-l> Look it up. :)
<ColonelPanic001> I do think
<ColonelPanic001> how dare u
<Wolfger> ColonelPanic001: citation?
<ColonelPanic001> My head, 2011
<ColonelPanic001> (c)
<Wolfger> well, we'll have to crack your head open to see
<ColonelPanic001> DCMA prevents circumventing the skull
<Wolfger> not at all. It just punishes those who do.
<ColonelPanic001> I have no retort. Damnit. Alright, make it quick.
<Wolfger> now I'm beginning to doubt your assertion that you think...
<Wolfger> :-)
<ColonelPanic001> I think that's bad.
<Wolfger> I think it should be quitting time
<ColonelPanic001> man, I can't read about copyrights. I'm working with Magento bullcrap, that's enough of a headache
<ColonelPanic001> but, TIL. I thought those were pretty much in the clear
<snap-l> nope
<ColonelPanic001> well, see to that
<snap-l> Anything from the 1930s is murky
<ColonelPanic001> we should just ask him about it.
<snap-l> 1930s to 1976 iirc
<brousch> magneto?
<snap-l> greg-g can corroborate and correct
<ColonelPanic001> Magento is a really fancy e-commerce PHP site
<ColonelPanic001> it's also lacking in a shred of decent documentation
<ColonelPanic001> "lol figure it out dumbass" is about it
<ColonelPanic001> "hope u like 2 google 4 blogs kthx"
<brousch> php and e-commerce
<brousch> you must enjoy pain
<brousch> maybe it goes back to the thinking thing
<krondor> wow I didn't realize SOPA was assuming jurisdiction over all us registry domain names.
<krondor> so it can assert control over all .net, .com, .org, etc.. because they're owned by us registry
<ColonelPanic001> brousch: it might. it might.
<greg-g> anything between 1923 and '63 is in this "it depends" state wrt to copyright. That was when formalities were required to gain and retain copyright protection (ie: registration, marking with the (C) on the work, and renewal after so many years)
<Wolfger> Copyright should be a lot simpler than that. "Is the author still alive? (y/n)"
<snap-l> And for animation, who is the author?
<snap-l> The story writer? The artists? the story-boarders? the tweeners?
<Wolfger> If yes, he owns it. If not, and he wasn't murdered for the sake of stealing his stuff, it's public domain.
<Wolfger> well, it gets complicated with corporate animation productions
<Wolfger> but generally there is an original creator(s) of very limited number
<snap-l> collaborative efforts = complications
<Wolfger> everybody else is just hired help
<snap-l> Wolfger: Dangerous territory. ;)
<Wolfger> but under no circumstances should a corporation ever own a copyright
<snap-l> You just called The Funk Brothers "hired hands" and not creative folks
<Wolfger> who are the funk brothers, and why do I care?
<snap-l> They worked on just about every album from a little place called "Motown"
<Wolfger> OK. Hired help.
<Wolfger> doesn't mean they aren't "creative"... just that they aren't the creators
<snap-l> "Shadows of Motown" is the documentary you need to watch
<Wolfger> k
<snap-l> Well, they assigned copyright, yes.
<snap-l> And assigned it to Motown Records (a corporation)
<Wolfger> which brings me right back to "under no circumstances...."
<snap-l> Also, what of the works of JRR Tolkein? (c) or !(c)
<Wolfger> The man wrote books. He is no longer alive that I know of. Therefore, his books should be public domain.
<Wolfger> The intended purpose of copyright is to protect content creators and enable them to profit from their work.
<Wolfger> no more content creator, no more copyright
<snap-l> but you're denying their children royalties
<Wolfger> boo hoo
<snap-l> and what about Robert Jordan (sp) and the Wheel of Time
<Wolfger> what about?
<snap-l> is the only book under (c) the latest one by Brian Sanderson?
<snap-l> Robert Jordan passed away
<Wolfger> would seem so, wouldn't it?
<rick_h_> http://blog.ezyang.com/2011/11/how-to-read-haskell/
<Wolfger> do you feel there is something special about Robert Jordan's case that warrants further copyright protection?
<Blazeix> rick_h_: I loved that post
<Blazeix> especially the "ignore everything after ::" I've been doing that since the beginning :)
<snap-l> Wolfger: Nah, Wheel of Time just generic fantasy ;)
<rick_h_> Blazeix: yea, not all the way through it. Deserves some time once I kick this headache
 * snap-l pokes rick_h_
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> snap-l: ?
<snap-l> Wolfger: Nah, Wheel of Time just generic fantasy ;) <- rick_h_
<rick_h_> you have to be nice to me, I've spent my afternoon reading and filling out benefits paperwork
<rick_h_> I'm likely to go postal at any moment
<Wolfger> lol
<snap-l> rick_h_: Um, about that ride tonight...
<snap-l> I just moved. to siberia
<snap-l> last minute travel
<snap-l> ;)
<snap-l> rick_h_: I hate benefits paperwork
<rick_h_> it makes no sense
<rick_h_> and none of the names match up so you're never sure which things you are or aren't in
<rick_h_> and it has a ton of fields that may or may not need to be filled out by you
<rick_h_> I just sign and hope when my leg falls off it's covered
<rick_h_> and supposedly, I'm semi intelligent
<rick_h_> wtf do the rest of the world do?
<greg-g> "14:46 <   Wolfger> The intended purpose of copyright is to protect content creators and enable them to profit from their work."  WRONG!
<snap-l> rick_h_: And fill in the same info over and over and over
<rick_h_> ruh roh
<rick_h_> someone set a greg-g bomb off
 * snap-l ducks under the desk
<Wolfger> ok, g-man, educate me
<greg-g> Wolfger: copyright (and patent) comes from the contsitution. Article 1, section 8. "To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;"
<greg-g> "to promote the progress of science and the useful arts"
<greg-g> period.
<brousch> rick_h_: glad it's not just me
<greg-g> to promote progress is the only acceptable answer to "why is there copyright" it is firmly not to ensure people get paid.
<ColonelPanic001> wat
<Wolfger> greg-g: that's not what the U.S. Copyright Office claims
<Wolfger> :-p
<_stink_> a commie wrote our Constitution??
<jjesse> i got a response back from my representative
<jjesse> not my senators
<ColonelPanic001> TIL again! wtf
<greg-g> others rephrase it to be "to incentivize creation"
<Wolfger> "It is a principle of American law that an author of a work may reap the fruits of his or her intellectual creativity for a limited period of time. Copyright is a form of protection provided by the laws of the United States for original works of authorship, including [...]"
<Wolfger> http://copyright.gov/circs/circ1a.html
<greg-g> Wolfger: onh snap, citing a circular! ;)
<Wolfger> LOL
<snap-l> Well, it does show a disconnect between intent and execution
<snap-l> Same with Patents
 * greg-g nods
<_stink_> yeah, i'd consider the USPTO one of the worst sources on what patents are supposed to look like.
<greg-g> also, let us not forget the first amendment. Free Speech (and using other people's copyrighted works in your free speech) is a "balance" that is applied to copyright so that we have a vigurous and healthy culture of debate
<Wolfger> but I fail to see how the Constitution does not provide protection "to get paid" as you claim <--greg-g
<Wolfger> "exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries" most certainly covers that. They don't need to spell it out.
<greg-g> well, the intended purpose is not *only* to "get paid"  Yes, incentivizing creation is good. Over incentivizing (or, incentivizing dead people, eg CTEA) is bad
<_stink_> well, i think if you assume the Constitution does not provide what it does not say, it's clearly not there.
<snap-l> The conssitution does not use the words "get paid"
<Wolfger> correct
<greg-g> also, I would take issue with your "life of the author/creator" being equal to copyright term
<greg-g> I think that is too long
<snap-l> I wonder what might have happened had The Lord of the Rings became PD
<greg-g> so did our founding fathers. 28 years. If (and only if) you paid to register your copyright (a nominal fee). ie: showing that you actually cared.
<Wolfger> well, the only thing everybody agrees on is that copyright is only meant to be "for a limited time". Nobody agrees on what that time should be.
<snap-l> Wolfger: And that's the problem
<greg-g> sure, of course
<greg-g> brb
<snap-l> I also find it funny that Walt Disney essentially plundered the PD because it was unlicensed content, and then turned around and locked it up in the disney vaults.
<snap-l> Just try making an animated feature called "Cinderella"
<Wolfger> I just think it makes sense that since the idea is to "promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors", then under only very special circumstances should that time ever exceed the life of the author or inventor
<greg-g> sure, undoubtedly
<Wolfger> and by "special circumstances", I pretty much mean foul play.
<snap-l> so the "last lecture" should be PD?
<Wolfger> anyhow, I got my wish... it's quitting time. See you all tomorrow.
<snap-l> since the dude pretty much died months after he gave it
<greg-g> that's why basing it around life of the author is messy
<greg-g> and why I like the idea of 28 years. period.
<jrwren> zomg, copyright discussion here is like echo chamber central.
<jrwren> i like 7 yrs period.
<jrwren> the internets ain't nothing but a digital printing press. 7 yrs was good then. its more than good now.
<jrwren> and IIRC, it was 14yrs when the US was founded, but that was carried over from the mother land.
<jrwren> its been a while since I read "Free Culture"
<jrwren> 7yrs would be SO awesome... all sorts of b.s. free software would be public domain.
<jrwren> imagine not having to worry about the license of source code for anything prior to 2004.
<jrwren> zomg!
<jrwren> the commercial applications alone!
<jrwren> talk about "free culture"
<jcastro> hey greg-g
<jrwren> sheesh.
<jcastro> I called my congressman today
<jcastro> I deserve a hippie hug
<jrwren> jcastro: your MI congressman?
<jrwren> jcastro: help me with my ifstate askubuntu question :)
<snap-l> I need a hippie hug as well
<snap-l> jrwren: So Windows Xp would be PD under that
<jrwren> right.
 * snap-l thinks there would be some "Exception" for service packs creating (c)
<brousch> all life is connected. greg-g can hug a tree in SF and that hug will travel at the speed of love to the tree in your backyard
<jrwren> service pack code and patches newer than 2004 would stlil be (c)
<jrwren> AND, just because a binary was released doesn't mean its source is PD
<jrwren> but XP binaries would be PD
<jrwren> all binaries for that matter.
<snap-l> I'd love to see the license agreement with that in place
<greg-g> jcastro: :) well done *hug*
<snap-l> i called too
<snap-l> (even though jcastro guilted me into calling instead of just relying on e-mail)
<jcastro> calling a human > spam
<jcastro> during the hearing one of the proponents was like "at starbucks this morning some kid called me the guy trying to kill the internet, that's not what this bill is about!"
<jcastro> I was like "haha what a shithead."
<jcastro> ends up he's the congressman for southern florida, LOL
<jcastro> "would suck to be represented  by that guy .... OH WAIT."
<greg-g> snap-l: then you get a hippie hug too *hug*
<snap-l> greg-g: *swoon*
<snap-l> Thank you.
<greg-g> :D
<_stink_> careful, dreadlocks are contagious
 * brousch rubs his head on greg-g vigorously
<brousch> i'll take dreadlock over nolocks
<snap-l> I'll take dreadlocks over bollocks.
<snap-l> http://www.historybuff.com/library/refbarnum.html
<snap-l> Interesting...
<snap-l> Didn't realize that DHCP would set hostname based on the machine name
<snap-l> ie: if I call a machine snookums, but don't add it to the DHCP table on tomato, I can still ssh to snookums.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-11-17
<rick_h_> jcastro: ok, so how do you get your email into your gmail?
<rick_h_> just forward all?
<rick_h_> I can't find a way to get gmail to read my imap mailbox
<greg-g> why do you want it in gmail?
<rick_h_> well, I'm debating several ways I guess
<rick_h_> I want to be able to get all "travel" emails from my personal account and my work account into one folder
<rick_h_> and I want to be able to access that on my phone
<rick_h_> and debating on ways to get that
<greg-g> ah
<greg-g> K9 Mail :)
<rick_h_> heh
<rick_h_> yea, so I'm thinking the answer is more work
<rick_h_> colo runs offlineimap, combines all 3 email accounts in one dir
<rick_h_> dovecot serves out those three as one imap account
<jjesse> evening
<rick_h_> and then imapfilter runs on color and runs there
<rick_h_> ...maybe...
<rick_h_> /color/colo
<rick_h_> then I can set my phone to talk to my dovecot server
<greg-g> that would work, yeah
<rick_h_> morning and all that
<snap-l> https://plus.google.com/u/0/117777908934895049975/posts/Lp4b3V5Fr4z
<snap-l> Morning
<rick_h_> ok, so who is chuck vs where is chuck?
<Wolfger> morning
<snap-l> It's something that started out of UDS
<snap-l> I have no idea who he is
<rick_h_> yea, I got that
<rick_h_> I'm guessing he's someone at Canonical, but don't know him
<snap-l> That would be a safe bet
<snap-l> Someone released the xcf of transparent Chuck, and I decided to get creative
<snap-l> I'm really proud of the Hasselhoff / Coleman animated GIF
<snap-l> Actually created a layer, and dplicated it 14 times to merge into all of the layers of the GIF>
<snap-l> http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/11/register-of-copyrights-without-sopa-copyright-will-ultimately-fail.ars
<snap-l> ^ WHAT THE FUCK?
<Wolfger> time to start lining people up against the wall...
<snap-l> I believe O'Reilly has my number again
<snap-l> HDHTML5 <- Coupon code for HTML5 books
<rick_h_> yea, saw that today
<rick_h_> get you some 50% off
<snap-l> Want to guess which book? :)
<rick_h_> I didn't even look. I don't know to see the list for fear I might have missed one
<snap-l> "Making Isometric Social Real-Time Games with HTML5, CSS3, and Javascript"
 * snap-l is going to be the next Zynga
 * Wolfger kills snap-l now before it's too late
<Wolfger> ...or did you mean you will be a non-evil version of Zynga?
<Wolfger> in which case you'll likely make no money to speak of...
<snap-l> No, I'll be non-evil
<snap-l> You'll just need to give me $$$ in order to win the game. ;)
<Wolfger> a game that can be "won"? How quaint.
<snap-l> OK, try this one on for size
<snap-l> comparing Christianity with Free software / OSS
<snap-l> The hacker ethic = Jesus
<snap-l> pure and undefiled sharing of code
<snap-l> proprietary software = the death
<jjesse_> well he was hacking the system by putting his own system in place?
<snap-l> ST. Paul = RMS
<snap-l> (had his conversion by the laser printer episode, and is generally regarded as the most conservative of the lot)
<snap-l> Reformation = Linus as Martin Luther
<snap-l> Calvinism = ESR / Perens with OSS
<snap-l> So, who haven't I completely offended? :)
<jjesse> mormons
<jjesse> joesph smith = ???
<snap-l> Hmmm
<snap-l> Hadn't thought it through
<dzho> interesting analogies
<dzho> fsvo "interesting" perhaps more closely approaching "amusing"
<Wolfger> snap-l: I think you should draw up a tux crucifix and sell t-shirts
<snap-l> Wolfger: Yeah, because that'll fly
<Wolfger> well, you appeared to be aiming to offend people...
<Wolfger> and I have no doubt at all that you would sell > 0 shirts to others who enjoy offending
<Wolfger> or who simply are thoughtless and think it's nifty
<jrwren> can anyone recommned a good public AMI for oneric ?
<rick_h_> jrwren: http://cloud-images.ubuntu.com/releases/11.10/release/ no good?
<jrwren> dunno... i found a daily test that looks like it already has updates applied.
<jrwren> dated 20111116
<jrwren> i used it.
<jrwren> then i realized I don't really need this ec2 instance, LOL
<Wolfger> dumbe question of the day: "Is pizza sauce a vegetable?"
<Wolfger> Since a tomato is a fruit, the answer is clearly "no"...
<rick_h_> man, someone stop me. I might join the tom bihn club
<rick_h_> this synapse bag looks niiiiice
<brousch> rick_h_: you are speaking gibberish
<brousch> tom bihn club, synapse bag
<Blazeix>  http://www.tombihn.com/page/001/PROD/300/TB0110
<jrwren> 2 things.
<jrwren> 1. //us-east-1.ec2.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ is FAST on Ec2
<jrwren> 2. this 64bit large is FAST
<jrwren> tom bihn makes nice bags.
<jrwren> do it rick_h_
<rick_h_> yea, jcastro and widox I think both have them and love them
<jrwren> my Ogio has held up very well
<jrwren> it was free.
<rick_h_> yea, I've got an ogio I have not and really like
<rick_h_> but I'm looking to get something a little more streamlined
<rick_h_> and I like the looks of this synapse
<rick_h_> seems a bit less 'bulky' not that my ogio is all *that* bulky
<jcastro> jrwren: http://cloud.ubuntu.com/ami/
<jcastro> clicking on one will take you right to the console
<Wolfger> On the off-chance anybody knows... is Amazon likely to run any sale prices on Kindle for the holidays, or do they typically keep the price steady on that?
<rick_h_> steady
<snap-l> Yeah, likelihood of them putting them on sale is remote
<snap-l> B&N would have to do some heavy discount
<Wolfger> I figured. Wife was asking me last night, so I guess I know what I'm getting for xmas. :-)
<brousch> an IOU for a kindle redeemable when they go on sale?
<jrwren>  13:41:11 up 540 days, 17:54,  1 user,  load average: 0.20, 0.09, 0.03
<jrwren> accidents are funny
<snap-l> Not as funny as trainwrecks
<Wolfger> brousch: Uh... they've been on sale for a long, long time now
<Wolfger> lots of people own them
<brousch> an IOU for a kindle redeemable when they have a special sale price :P
<Wolfger> LOL
<Wolfger> now that I get your meaning, it's funny
<jrwren> anyone do vnc to display :0 ?
<jrwren> like via xvnc0server ?
<jrwren> err.. x0vncserver ?
<widox> rick_h_: I think n0p has one actually
<rick_h_> widox: of that backpack model?
<widox> that brand I mean
<widox> I don't have one
<widox> by them
<rick_h_> oh, I thought your over the shoulder was one of those
<rick_h_> sorry
<brousch> i love how gnome shell handles openeing programs. you hit the link or shortcut to open it, go do what you want, and it pops up in the bottom notification when it's ready
<n0p> http://www.tombihn.com/page/001/PROD/300/TB0152 :-)
<jrwren> http://mlepicki.com/?p=10   woot
<rick_h_> ok n0p then
<rick_h_> I knew someone had that one
<rick_h_> still happy with it n0p ?
<n0p> yeah, i mean, i wish it were a regular (both sholder) bag, but i love this one so much i deal with the one shoulder
<greg-g> brousch: I actually don't like that, because it slows me down doing quick things like opening a nautilus window
<n0p> when standing around, i wish i could swap shoulders
<rick_h_> yea, I'm a backpack guy
<rick_h_> load it up and both shoulder it, right/left, etc
<n0p> but this was the thinest one they had
<n0p> high quality bag
<rick_h_> right
<brousch> greg-g: my computer is so slow i like the lag to do other things
<brousch> i spelled "hoary" against gamerchick in words with friends. shuttleworth's stupid release names FTW
<_stink_> hah
<brousch> wow, even my full Gnome 10.04 VM rebooted in under 30s
<brousch> snap-l: http://www.jamendo.com/en/artist/Tyson_Boogie
<snap-l> brousch: Checking it out
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-11-18
<rick_h_> jcastro: I'll be good and hit the answer up :P
<jcastro> I also meant your other questions
<jcastro> http://askubuntu.com/users/1550/rick
<jcastro> otherwise when you ask it's like "0% accept rate" and people are like "ewww"
<rick_h_> yea, gotcha. I've got 100% on SO but my answers here haven't been home runs
<rick_h_> you're right though
<snap-l> Good evening
<_stink_> yo
<greg-g> hi hi
<_stink_> is it like noon there?
<greg-g> about :)
<snap-l> Uploading another Club Metal
<snap-l> This is one you won't want to miss
<snap-l> the lead track is so damn powerful
<snap-l> Your ears deserve to hear this episode, so I couldn't wait to share: !openmetalcast Special Episode: Club Metal 7
<snap-l> http://openmetalcast.com/2011/11/17/open-metalcast-special-episode-club-metal-7/
<snap-l> Wow, identi.ca use has really tapered off
<snap-l> http://identi.ca/snapl/all
<greg-g> yeah, it is sad :(
<snap-l> I'm not even getting the normal kook response
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> bah, another day of rss, another day without a nexus link
<Wolfger> rick_h_: at least it's a Friday without a nexus link...
<rick_h_> booooo!
<rick_h_> but yea, friday ftw, I need this weekend
<Wolfger> this weekend will be nice. Next weekend will be better. 4-day ftw
<brousch> rick_h_: so your head has not exploded yet?
<rick_h_> brousch: get with me at the end of the day
<rick_h_> if I can finally get my merges into dev today I'll be happy
<rick_h_> if not...get the paper towels
<brousch> i'll bring a tarp
<snap-l> http://openmetalcast.com/2011/11/17/open-metalcast-special-episode-club-metal-7/
<snap-l> You must listen to the first track, at the very least
<snap-l> I know the industrial / cyber-metal isn't everyone's cup of tea.
<brousch> dangit, i am just about to start ep 33
<brousch> i'm like 3 behind now
<snap-l> That's OK. They don't expire. ;)
<Wolfger> I need to go through and get the last instumetalcast still.
<snap-l> http://xkcd.com/979/
<rick_h_> yea, it needs to go into the halls of the great xkcd
<ColonelPanic001> so very true
<ColonelPanic001> especially the alt-text
<snap-l> That's about it
<ColonelPanic001> I want to send flowers to the poster every time the thread only has two posts, and the second is the same guy saying "figured it out, here's what I did"
<snap-l> Hey, Windows is updating
<ColonelPanic001> STOP
<ColonelPanic001> KILL IT
<snap-l> ColonelPanic001: My favorites are the forum posts that have three posts. #1 is exactly the issue I'm having
<snap-l> and the other two are "bump"
<ColonelPanic001> yeah
<ColonelPanic001> also have seen that.
<snap-l> And by favorite, I mean that's when my soul dies a little bit more
<ColonelPanic001> https://www.xkcd.com/978/
<ColonelPanic001> also good
<snap-l> ColonelPanic001: Yeah, I'm sure more than one book out there has been Wikipedia fodder
<ColonelPanic001> I wish he mentioned which
<ColonelPanic001> I bet it's that one guy. Crap, forgot his name
<ColonelPanic001> looking
<ColonelPanic001> bah, I have no idea. Older asian guy with shoulder length hair
<ColonelPanic001> somehow, everytime I read the title of a book of his, it either sounds overly "pop" for pop science, or just.. suspicious
<ColonelPanic001> Michio Kaku
<ColonelPanic001> there it is
<ColonelPanic001> https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Michio_Kaku
<snap-l> Michio
<snap-l> Bah, you beat me to the answer
<snap-l> was reading top-down
<snap-l> I'm wondering  if xkcd means something like those business books that purport to be science
<snap-l> or based in science
<ColonelPanic001> business books?
<ColonelPanic001> "The One Minute Manager... with Physics"
<ColonelPanic001> I <3 https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/James_Burke_%28science_historian%29
<ColonelPanic001> mainly just because I f'ing loved Connections
<snap-l> "Here's the neuro-science of why you can't get up in the morning, based on a theory that you're brain feels you're instead running from alligators"
<ColonelPanic001> ah
<snap-l> And her'es why coffee is bad for you, reason 101
 * ColonelPanic001 sips his french vanilla cappuccino
<snap-l> AND WHO MOVED MY GODDAMN CHEESE
<ColonelPanic001> must be some very good cheese
<brousch> crazy stuff http://www.forbes.com/sites/alexknapp/2011/11/17/physicists-create-light-from-nothingness/
<snap-l> So Forbes does science when it's convenient to do so? :)
<brousch> must be a slow business and finance news day
<snap-l> I passed it along to JoDee
<snap-l> Let's just say the big print exciteth, and the little print diminisheth
<_stink_> hah
<_stink_> yes
<_stink_> that headline writer should be ashamed.
<_stink_> science reporting sucks so bad.
<snap-l> JoDee totally agrees
<snap-l> It's the equivlent of "A PRESIDENT DIES! FIND OUT WHICH ONE!"
<_stink_> lulz
<_stink_> yeah
<ColonelPanic001> _stink_: yer one of them scientists. What's a decent place to read science news? As in, essentially pop-science. Serious, accurate stuff, but stuff I'll understand, at least well enough to look up background or ask about on my own.
<_stink_> this is very sad
<_stink_> but i honestly have no clue
<_stink_> i can ask around
 * ColonelPanic001 checks his often neglected RSS reader
<ColonelPanic001> http://www.ucsusa.org/
<ColonelPanic001> http://www.newscientist.com/
<snap-l> physicsworld.com
<ColonelPanic001> http://www.sciencenews.org/
<snap-l> (so sayeth the JoDee)
<ColonelPanic001> your opinion on those would be great
<ColonelPanic001> snap-l: thanks, I'll add it
<Wolfger> readable by the common man, yet accurate info? I don't think it exists. :-p
<ColonelPanic001> QUIET, NAYSAYER
<Wolfger> nay
<ColonelPanic001> sayer
<_stink_> ucsusa.org seems political.
<ColonelPanic001> it is
<ColonelPanic001> maybe nevermind that one
<snap-l> Skeptic's Guide to the Universe also has a lot of science on it
<ColonelPanic001> not really 'science news'
<_stink_> newscientist.com smells funky, but i'll dig deeper
<ColonelPanic001> I added these just on a whim, so feel free to tear them apart.
<ColonelPanic001> I'm not a "fan" of any of them
<_stink_> physicsworld.com looks very good, but is narrow.
<ColonelPanic001> it's narrow, but that's what RSS readers are for. heh
<snap-l> astrobites is also good
<_stink_> sciencenews.org wins because of the hilarious front page picture and caption
<snap-l> but it's extremely narrow.
<Wolfger> "if you were able to spin a mirror at speeds close to the speed of light, then the mirror would convert virtual photons into actual photons" .... so, the headline should be "Physicists [Can] Create Light From Nothingness [in Theory]"
<ColonelPanic001> CNN.com: "PHYSICISTS CLAIM TO BE GOD"
<snap-l> You're also using the physicist version of the word "light"
<_stink_> the subtitle on physicsworld.com is the right one: "Physicists convert virtual photons into real ones"
<_stink_> which is boring, i guess
<_stink_> http://www.sciencenews.org/view/access/id/336322/title/sm_vole-mokkonen2HR.jpg
<_stink_> c'mon that is funny
<snap-l> That seriously need some captions
<ColonelPanic001> agreed
<snap-l> I'm starting to think the Squeezebox server is not nearly as random as it claims
<snap-l> three times this week it's recommended "The Buck Pets - Mercuritones"
<snap-l> which either means that the algorithm isn't that great, or the Squeezebox feels that was a decent, but rather overlooked 1990s album.
<snap-l> Which means my Squeezebox is a fucking music hipster
<_stink_> probably
<ColonelPanic001> awesome. someone has some musical crap over here
<snap-l> Want some recommendations?
<brousch> snap-l: i got the care box the other day. thanks
<snap-l> brousch: Awesome.
<snap-l> Did everything show up OK?
<brousch> looks like it
<snap-l> Cool. I was a little worried it might have scuffed up things.
<brousch> snap-l: did you like Tyson Boogie?
<brousch> a couple seemed OK
<brousch> crap, forgot my headphones today
<snap-l> brousch: I listened to it a bit
<snap-l> Their description confuses me, though
<snap-l> I'm hoping they're not indirectly covering AC/DC. :)
 * snap-l tries not to play covers on the show
<ColonelPanic001> I just looked at reallifecomics.com for the first time in ages
<ColonelPanic001> wtf he has a kid
<snap-l> Yep
<ColonelPanic001> I missed so much :\
<snap-l> You weren't watching close enough
<snap-l> he went and got married and had a kid all in that time
<snap-l> It's YOUR FAULT.
<ColonelPanic001> I think I remember him getting married, don't remember
<Wolfger> Awesome. I just loaded some media in Dolphin browser on my Android, and the progress bar started out at NAN%
<Wolfger> then went up to 0% and on through 100% as expected.
<Wolfger> what was the name of the service I used to use that tries to tie all your social networks together? (not that I expect anybody to *know* which one *I* used, but with a few guesses I should see and recognize the right one)
<ColonelPanic001> firefox
<Wolfger> service, not app :-p
<Wolfger> ColonelPanic001 gets a fail for the day
<ColonelPanic001> Firefox sync
<Blazeix> plaxo?
<Blazeix> that's the only one i know of
<snap-l> ping.fm?
<Wolfger> ping, yes!
<Wolfger> Thank you
 * snap-l pats himself on the head.
<Wolfger> Google suggested posterous and slideshare
<snap-l> plaxo? Isn't that a prescription drug? :)
<Blazeix> ping? isn't that apple's social network?
<Wolfger> ping.fm predated Apple's ping by quite a bit
<Wolfger> or maybe apple bought it out. i don't know. I pay little attention to what Apple does.
<greg-g> not bought out, separatethings
<greg-g> unlike my words
<Wolfger> lol
<brousch> snap-l: d00d, i just listened to omc ep 20. best. omc. evar.
<brousch> live from penguicon
<greg-g> oh right, with the new install, and no easy way to transfer radio stations/podcasts from one banshee install to another, I failed to resub to lococast/omc :(
<brousch> well that was an old one that i missed. i have them queued up
<snap-l> brousch: thanks. :)
<snap-l> greg-g: Spread the love as well. Trying to grow the shows. :)
<greg-g> snap-l: will do, I redent/tweet when I can :)
<snap-l> Much appreciated.
<snap-l> I'm sure the folks at the CC offices don't just listen to drum circles. ;)
<greg-g> haha, not many metal heads, unfortunately
<brousch> new age hippiy crap
<Wolfger> what exactly is new age hippy music?
<Wolfger> I mean it used to be Dylan and Joplin and Hendrix...
<brousch> whale songs and gurgling water
<Wolfger> ah, exactly as I thought.... just making crap up again. :-)
<brousch> as usual
<snap-l> It's the sound of whales yelling at each other overlaid with pan flute and harp.
<brousch> that's much too violent
<snap-l> do you speak whale?
<brousch> it is the sound of whales making love in the deep while dryads and nymphs cheer them on
<Wolfger> dryads live in forests....
<Wolfger> definitely not deep-dwelling cretures
<Wolfger> :-p
 * Wolfger wonders what exactly a hippy looks/acts like in brousch's mind
<brousch> so what's a dryad called that lives in a kelp forest?
<Wolfger> *sigh*
<Wolfger> a mermaid
<Wolfger> dryads are tree spirits dammit
<Wolfger> kelp "forest" nonwithstanding
<Wolfger> sirens perhaps is what you're thinking of
<brousch> i'm not thinking of anything. i'm making crap up
<brousch> you're putting entirely too much thought into this thing
<Wolfger> and thus Hannity and Limbaugh are explained. Don't think, just make crap up. :-)
<snap-l> My mother was a dryad.
<snap-l> btw: new cloudkicker album dropped
<snap-l> two, actually.
<ColonelPanic001> WAT
<ColonelPanic001> must aquire.
<Wolfger> vimhelp!
 * Wolfger waits for rick_h_ to swoop in from out of nowhere
<rick_h_> don't ask to ask...just ask :P
<ColonelPanic001> he did ask. to sak.
<ColonelPanic001> ask.
<Wolfger> :set wm=80 does nothing.... :set wm=78 issues a new line after every whitespace
<Wolfger> what am I doing wrong?
<rick_h_> use tw
<rick_h_> wm is based on the current window size, no current text
<Wolfger> what is tw?
<rick_h_> textwidth
<Wolfger> ok
<rick_h_> :help wm and :help tw
<Wolfger> oh. Duh. wm is from the right border, not left. I misread that. Or rather, my brain ignored what I read in favor of what I expected.
<Wolfger> thanks
<rick_h_> np
<Wolfger> freshly armed with :help, /me heads back into the fray
<ColonelPanic001> Let Yourself Be Huge is pretty good
<snap-l> Yeah, it's definitely a differnet album
<ColonelPanic001> THERE BE VOCALS IN THIS HERE CLOUDKICKER
<snap-l> release the hounds
<ColonelPanic001> with bees in their mouths
<rick_h_> Blazeix: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCexiX_eUJA&feature=youtu.be&hd=1 YUI MVC fun
<ColonelPanic001> I don't like ever mentioning an author in code comments, because svn/git/etc does that anyway, and often there's plenty of people that alter the code. can't list them all.
<ColonelPanic001> thoughts?
<snap-l> agree
<_stink_> you are trying to take all the crdit
<_stink_> credit
<rick_h_> ColonelPanic001: +1, don't make crap in comments I don't care about
<ColonelPanic001> nah, it's just for example, here in grades.php. What is Eric edits it? Am I stil the "author"? Of what parts?
<snap-l> ColonelPanic001: Also, it depends on if this is code that's being exposed to the rest of the world
<snap-l> or if the license demands credit (aka: the XFree license)
<_stink_> right, just teach people git blame
<snap-l> There needs to be a git bless
<snap-l> blame for "who broke the $%%&%^& build"
<ColonelPanic001> heh
<snap-l> Bless to turn people into objects in Perl. ;)
<snap-l> Um, n/ms
<ColonelPanic001> I give up.
<ColonelPanic001> find . -name "*.php" works
<ColonelPanic001> I want to add to that, "-exec php -l;"
<ColonelPanic001> find: missing argument to `-exec'
<ColonelPanic001> I've tried all kinds of variations on that
<ColonelPanic001> halp
<ColonelPanic001> _stink_ fixed it
<ColonelPanic001> needed a trailing, \, seems
<ColonelPanic001> find . -name "*.php" -exec php -l {} \;
<snap-l> yes
<snap-l> You can also use xargs
<_stink_> heh
<snap-l> find . -name "*.php" -print0 | xargs -0 php -l
<snap-l> I believe that's equivalent, and will also null-pad spaces.
<_stink_> ColonelPanic001: I TOLD YOU TO ASK HERE
<ColonelPanic001> nah, the xargs method is how I started try to do it, and it gave me problems
<ColonelPanic001> I'm not picky
<snap-l> Well, my most random e-mail of the day:
<snap-l> SOme seminar for getting my resume read by recruiters
<snap-l> Sponsored by my company
<snap-l> I think they're telling me something
<ColonelPanic001> heh
<ColonelPanic001> I wonder if I could make vim run php -l on a php files whenever I save it. I may try this after a bathroom break
<snap-l> it was a meeting notice
<rick_h_> Blazeix: you around this weekend? Would love to pick your brain on this: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~rharding/launchpad/bugfix_891735/view/head:/lib/lp/contrib/javascript/yui3-gallery/gallery-text-expander/gallery-text-expander.js
<rick_h_> basically rehacked the heck of a plugin that needed help
<rick_h_> but it's friday and I'm missing an easier way to do the resize on deleting I think
<Blazeix> rick_h_: hey, I'll be around. I haven't examined the yui text expander code yet, but did you see this recent alistapart article? http://www.alistapart.com/articles/expanding-text-areas-made-elegant/
<rick_h_> Blazeix: yea, I changed some of the old plugin based on that
<rick_h_> like the move from the keyup event to the valueChange YUI event
<rick_h_> but didn't go all the way to the dual html element setup
<Blazeix> any particular reason? it looks like the old plugin code assumes 60 char width, is a bit hacky
<rick_h_> heh, that's my change
<rick_h_> the old plugin code actually set the height to 1 line tall, and then reexpanded it
<rick_h_> I added the 60char test to try to avoid flashing it all the way to nothing and back again
<rick_h_> which is what I wanted to chat about
<rick_h_> the negative of the list apart stuff is the double elements
<rick_h_> I was trying to work with just keeping the single textarea
<rick_h_> oops, family over afk for a while
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-11-19
<Blazeix> I don't really see a problem with introducing a second element for sizing, it'd be dynamically generated by the plugin.
<Blazeix> if you really don't like that i suppose you could also estimate character width and try to calculate # of lines based on textarea width
<Blazeix> adjusting for newlines
<Blazeix> but i'm not sure that's any better than just shrinking the textarea and then readjusting
<rick_h_> Blazeix: yea, it's because I'm strapping on top of existing ui
<rick_h_> so doing a lot of dom stuff to build that up isn't practical
<rick_h_> right now I'm not breaking any other css, js, etc hook points on there
<rick_h_> though you do point out one other issue and that's if you remove few characters, but lots of newlines, it'll jump. So you'd want to count both character diffs and new lines in the diff I suppose to be accurate
<rick_h_> hmm, maybe I could just create a sizing box off the page and not need to wrap it within the textarea container
<Blazeix> the bookie superbly tag field does something like that
<rick_h_> yea
<rick_h_> http://james.padolsey.com/javascript/jquery-plugin-autoresize/ is really nice
<rick_h_> I think I can steal this idea, clone the node, shove it off screen, calc there and then the animation is a nice touch
<rick_h_> only thing will be dealing with really large blocks of content, but deal with that when I hit that much content
<rick_h_> anyway, time to hang it up for the night. Thanks Blazeix
<rick_h_> lol, doh! I ordered the tom bihn backback one day too late
<rick_h_> ETA is the monday after I fly out
<rick_h_> stupid holiday, 11 day ups ground trip
<_stink_> might be a long shot, but does anyone here have experience with a java decompiler?
<snap-l> _stink_: only in passing.
<snap-l> Haven't used one since 2003-2004
<_stink_> aight, np
<_stink_> yeah
<_stink_> seems like there isn't an obvious modern choice.
<snap-l> _stink_: Question is why? :)
<_stink_> snap-l: at work we have a juniper web-based VPN, and i want to take apart the .jar file used in linux and see how it works.
<snap-l> Well, the jar file is just a zip file
<_stink_> mostly because i want to know if i can write an android client for it.
<_stink_> oh... see, i don't know much about java.
<_stink_> i can unpack it and see source?
<_stink_> or will it be bytecode?
<snap-l> Yeah, it has a META-INF file that acts like a manifest
<snap-l> Generally speaking they're just .class files in a directory.
<_stink_> ok, sweet.
<_stink_> thanks.
<snap-l> depends on what they did with those .class files, though
<_stink_> maybe i'll take a look then ask you again :P
<_stink_> since you are now my first choice for java questions.
<_stink_> congrats!
<snap-l> huzzah
<snap-l> I just ran JD-GUI against some java code I had laying around
<snap-l> it did a decen't job
<snap-l> Hopefully they didn't run it through some obfuscation
<jrwren> ColonelPanic001: is that you in #mono asking about F#?
<snap-l> Done with the dentist for now
<snap-l> one side of my face is numb
<jrwren> get nitrous ?
<snap-l> No, I went without today.
<snap-l> I usually do, but decided I'm a big boy now. :)
<snap-l> lsls
<jrwren> i'd say yes, just because its fun.
<snap-l> Yeah, it can be
<snap-l> is it just me, or is a lot of the Internet broken today?
<snap-l> Stuff is just not resolving.
<snap-l> Is there some CDN that's offline?
<brousch> you guys need to go occupy john conyer's yard. he is a supporter of the SOPA
<brousch> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_Online_Piracy_Act#Supporters
<snap-l> John Conyers is an ass.
<greg-g> +1 to that
<greg-g> he's deep in the big media's pockets
<snap-l> He's deep into anyone that plays the bullshit politics games
<snap-l> he's not afraid to follow the money, and is about as corrupt as they come
<brousch> isn't he your rep?
<snap-l> brousch: No, Gary Peters is
<snap-l> Conyers represents Wayne County folk
<Blazeix> neat, stanford crypto class: http://www.crypto-class.org/
<snap-l> hello from gdfish tea
<rick_h_> gdfish?
<snap-l> goldfish
<snap-l> i cant type
<rick_h_> Blazeix: snap-l what do you guys think of yui theater viewing ofr CHC this week?
<snap-l> id be for it
<snap-l> which knes did you have i mind?
<rick_h_> maybe the crockf and class inheritance/composition patterns?
<rick_h_> might be more coming up this week
<rick_h_> but figured it'll probably be a bit low attendance and would be cool to set aside some time
<rick_h_> I know even not doing YUI I've liked a lot of their videos/talks
<snap-l> yeah, that would be near
<snap-l> near
<snap-l> fuck
<snap-l> neat
<Blazeix> i won't be able to make chc this week
<rick_h_> booo :LP
<rick_h_> err :P
<Blazeix> will you be able to stream those videos over your mifi?
<rick_h_> I have an excuse, I'm rsyning email up atm
<rick_h_> Blazeix: yea, that's the plan
<rick_h_> and project on the wall
<rick_h_> bring an external speaker
<Blazeix> nice
<jrwren> how do you guys do CHC theatre?
<jrwren> where do you meet?
<rick_h_> there's a room we went at the caribou
<rick_h_> /went/rent
<jrwren> cool.
<jrwren> private room sounds nice
<rick_h_> yea, we don't get it every week
<rick_h_> fierce scheduling competition
<rick_h_> but nice to block out some coffee house noises
<rick_h_> and do stuff like this hopefully
<snap-l> its in royal oam on woodward
<snap-l> reading javascript thr good parts
<snap-l> i think more books should be written like this
<snap-l> have to  . editate on each sentence
<snap-l> meditate
<greg-g> rick_h_: haha, LP on the brain, eh? (re: ":LP")
<rick_h_> greg-g: I guess
<rick_h_> hmm, this might actually work...
<rick_h_> now how to figure outgoing mail hmmm
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-11-20
<rick_h_> so if \e is alt
<rick_h_> anyone know what \XX would be for escape?
<rick_h_> nvm, got something going
<snap-l> Good morning
<_stink_> morning
<snap-l> Listening to Frank Zappa from the year I was born
<brousch> is that vinyl or wax?
<brousch> snap-l:  http://goo.gl/ypzWn
<snap-l> What's with the laptop?
<snap-l> Also, it's set up backwards.
<snap-l> and that hihat is way too high for him
<snap-l> unless he's left handed
<snap-l> OK, off to grocery shoppeeeeeeee
<snap-l> laterness.
<rick_h_> gah, this k-9 mail is sucking and ruining my evil plans
<brousch> snap-l: http://www.pygamezine.com/
<rick_h_> yea, that's getting a lot of <3
<snap-l> Oh, nice.
<snap-l> Downloaded
<snap-l> http://download.magnatune.com/artists/bezdin_ensemble
<snap-l> Beethoven Symphonies 1-6 are up
<brousch> snap-l: i re-arranged the drums properly, fixed the hi-hat, tightened all the screw things, and removed the bottom snare drum head so we can replace it
<brousch> i think i can be a roadie now
<snap-l> heh
<brousch> what's a drum head gonna cost me?
<brousch> too many
<brousch> $10?
<brousch> snare side drum head
<greg-g> jcastro: dude, you suck: http://www.flickr.com/photos/whiprush/tags/udu/
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> breaking URLs, you must hate the web
<jcastro> oh
<jcastro> I have them on picasa
<jcastro> I didn't break URLs
<jcastro> flickr held my photos hostage
<jcastro> so I left
<rick_h_> hah
<jcastro> greg-g: https://plus.google.com/photos/116015965439782966698/albums/5150605654759910417
<greg-g> ;0
<greg-g> erm, ;)
<jcastro> https://plus.google.com/photos/116015965439782966698/albums/5150605654759910417/5150611637649358162
<jcastro> look how young jim looks
<greg-g> oh. my
<rick_h_> snap-l: widox _stink_ http://blog.mitechie.com/2011/11/20/coffeehousecoders-112311-yui-theater-group-viewing/
<rick_h_> oh son of a R#@JOIRJ#OI@JRO#@
<snap-l> rick_h_: Son of a roger?
<snap-l> https://plus.google.com/photos/116015965439782966698/albums/5150605654759910417/5150607514480750930 <- jcastro: Did you just inhale a helium balloon? :)
<jcastro> hahahaha
<jcastro> nice
<rick_h_> jcastro: yea, not happy...grumble..that was a LONG blog post on my email setup that just flew away
<rick_h_> let's just say I made sure dropbox was started up before I restarted typing it
<jcastro> hmm?
<greg-g> snap-l: what the hell are you eating?
<rick_h_> jcastro: thought you were laughing at http://twitter.com/#!/mitechie/status/138347269710815232
<snap-l> greg-g: Rainbow marshmallow Swiss Miss Cocoa
<rick_h_> sorry, missed snap-l there
<rick_h_> I'm blind with lost giant blog post rage
<snap-l> I don't think there's anything natural in this
<snap-l> rick_h_: Oh, that sucks (re: losing the blog post)
<snap-l> rick_h_: Are you uploading some audacity foo?
<snap-l> Oh, nice...
<rick_h_> no, mutt/email
<snap-l> I think your dropbox hasn't been working since Wed
<rick_h_> I finally have things working and figured I'd do an epic "how crazy people setup email" blog post
<snap-l> just now getting the OLF podcast folder
<rick_h_> snap-l: yea, I changed things and it wasn't auto starting
<rick_h_> fixed
<jcastro> :(
<jcastro> once this thinkup charm is done
<jcastro> I am going to do a better job of backing up all my stuff
<rick_h_> that's always a pita...
<snap-l> I updated the calendar entry for this week on the loco calendar to include rick_h_'s blogpost.
<rick_h_> thanks!
<rick_h_> phew, blog posting done for the year now
<snap-l> rick_h_: Heh
<rick_h_> heh, three in one day is enough for me
<greg-g> rick_h_: thanks for the email post
<brousch> anyone know what "axing the weasel" means?
<brousch> http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2396659,00.asp
<snap-l> If it doesn't mean stop reading PCMAG, then I don't know.
<brousch> i can't even find a definition for it outside of the banned list
<brousch> why would they ban it?
<brousch> budweiser is banned!
<brousch> i am expanding my vocabulary by leaps and bounds with this list, thanks pakistan!
<snap-l> I hope to God you don't have to text someone to let you in the back door in Pakistan.
<brousch> snap-l: do me a favor and bring your finger food to the back door
<brousch> my friend wants a version of words with friends where only words on the ban list are valid plays
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-11-12
<rick_h>  jrwren bookie used to
<jrwren> no more eh?
<jrwren> Hi, i'm a total n00b and I have a simple example, very much like the wine part1 tutorial but it isn't working. fetch seems to come up empty, even though network tab shows data transfered and that data looks right.
<jrwren> where is a good place to place a breakpoint so that I can see results coming back? Maybe where each of my model objects is created from the response json? where is that?
<jrwren> oh! a template error. lesson learned.
<snap-l> Evening
<jjesse> evening s
<jjesse> snap-l,
<snap-l> cat is in heat, and making all sorts of noise
<jrwren> kick her out hte house
<jjesse> take out her heater?
<snap-l> jrwren: She's an indoor car
<snap-l> jjesse: We're going to do that on Tuesday
<jjesse> nice
<snap-l> Cat just took a running jump and landed on my back with claws extended
<snap-l> I think I can appreaciate rick_h's stance on cats a little better. :)
<jrwren> ready to let her out the door yet?
<jrwren> why does firefox say $ isn't defined but chrome loads jquery first like it is supposed to?
<snap-l> jrwren: no, not yet.
<snap-l> She did it again. Apparently the screams of "WHAT THE FUCK" weren't enough the last time.
<jrwren> kill her
<snap-l> jrwren: I'm putting her in a box and sending her to your place.
<jrwren> i'd let her out on my back porch
<jrwren> if she starts scratching my doors, i'll let her out my front and she'd probably get in a nice fight with the local wildlife
<snap-l> It's comments like this that make me want to punch people: http://identi.ca/notice/93737645
<snap-l> "We don't like non-GPLed games, so we're going to start a collective to bitch endlessly about them."
<snap-l> http://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/130i1k/coffee_beans_in_danger_of_extinction/ NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
<derekv> won't happen
<derekv> but if true, one reason to not live for ever
<derekv> i'd be 102
<derekv> i think when you 102, you can just close your eyes and die at any time
<derekv> so at that time, I'd have that option
<rick_h> jrwren: did you figure the jquery thing out?
<jcastro_> snap-l: awake?
<brousch> I am laughing so hard I have tears in my eyes http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/11/inside-team-romneys-whale-of-an-it-meltdown/
<snap-l> jcastro_: I'm awake now.
<snap-l> brousch: Yeah, that project Orca was a big clusterfuck of awesome
 * rick_h is full of fail and can't work lynx today
<snap-l> rick_h: I see the problem
<snap-l> 1) Using Lynx
<snap-l> 2) See #1
<rick_h> I'm testing my website change in lynx because I have to :P
<snap-l> Blergh
<brousch> yikes
<rick_h> yea, fun stuff
<brousch> Also in IE6?
<rick_h> nope, don't care about them
<snap-l> rick_h: Just a quick pointer from having used Lynx
<snap-l> All that Javascript shit? Doesn't work. ;)
<rick_h> snap-l: now you're getting to the point of this test
<rick_h> 'if you're in lynx...does all my pretty JS stuff get out of the way and you get a simple message?'
<snap-l> "Please for the love of God, turn on Javascript, you wanker"?
<rick_h> guess there's people in the server side filing bugs and looking at stuff from lynx on servers
<snap-l> Ah, I see, so the real root of the problem is people filing bugs
<brousch> I must admit I've done that half a dozen times in the last decade
<brousch> No bug reports though
<snap-l> "Please stop filing bugs. We've got enough of them, thank you"
<snap-l> "We're done full up"
<brousch> You could just break the  bug submission form
<rick_h> well that's the strange thing. It's for showing the privacy banner
<rick_h> but it won't work when you're filing because you've not yet said this is security/private related
<snap-l> Ah, lovely.
<jrwren> rick_h: i did not figure out the jquery thing. it works in safari adn chrome, but not FF
<rick_h> jrwren: link? or is it local only? Pastebin?
<rick_h> make sure you have <script></script> and not <script/>
<jrwren> yes
<jrwren> http://delays.xmtp.net/~jrwren/test.html
<jrwren> my buddy says it work for him in FF htough.
<jrwren> so maybe it something goofy with my noscript or aurora or something? I dunno
<rick_h> yea, works here on nightly
<jrwren> hrmf. I think I'll stop caring about it.
<rick_h> ugh, why's it seem to load slow.
<rick_h> guess just lack of other content to distract me while it loads
<rick_h> nvm, ignore me
<greg-g> man, this quad core(i5)/ssd laptop is fast
 * greg-g is using his work bought laptop again, finally
<greg-g> x220 (work) vs x200s (personal)
<jrwren> rick_h: 700k json response :)
<jrwren> there is a reason it is called test :)
<rick_h> jrwren: yea, seemed maybe the cdn was acting slow at first
<rick_h> greg-g: yea, noticed a nice jump from my x201 -> x230
<rick_h> gah, forgot my glasses at the coffee shop
<Blazeix> i'm sure you made a nearsighted caribou very happy
<rick_h> hah, in the car so yay
<rick_h> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=iv1Z7bf4jXY
<rick_h> heh, ubuntu laptop in the book I'm listening to
<jrwren> lol, the magical wizards.
<jrwren> rick_h: so how does this work?
<rick_h> jrwren: the ubuntu for android?
<jrwren> yeah.
<jrwren> ubuntu music player, ubuntu photo gallery? wtf?!?
<rick_h> so you boot ubuntu, but it mounts your phone's drive and reads/writes the formats to things like the photo store, contact list, etc
<jrwren> oh! it really integrates with android.
<rick_h> and has libraries for using the phone hardware to do things like the SMS sending from the ubuntu boot directly in the messanging indicator
<rick_h> yea, it's more than just boots, it interacts with the android side
<jjesse> does it "integrate" or does it wipe out the standard Android build and replace it w/ Ubuntu?
<rick_h> I *believe* it installs as an app?
<jrwren> jjesse: it definitely integrates.
<jjesse> well on the Nexus7 i think it wipes it?
<rick_h> my phone doesn't support it since you need the hdmi out stuff
<rick_h> yea, the N7 is different
<jrwren> so I wonder if I can install this on mk802 android
<rick_h> it's just a 'test device' standard for working on Ubuntu on mobile hardware
<rick_h> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_for_Android seems to have some info
<jrwren> i just want ubuntu for anroid and to point it at a PPA with XBMC and I'll be very happy
<jrwren> oh wow, plug into TV and it is Ubuntu TV experience.
<jrwren> this is so cool
<rick_h> yea, I mean the N4 is a quad core machine that would probably be great for the wife to be honest
<rick_h> imagine she just 'docks' her phone to do her notes at night
<jrwren> i was thinking same thing for my wife, and parents.
<rick_h> so I'm excited to see where it goes. It's one of my favorite things people are working on I think.
<rick_h> I think Sun (or IBM) had a thing where you had a box with a HD and CPU in it and you dropped it in any dock hooked to keyboard/mouse to work on stuff
<jrwren> never heard of it.
<snap-l> rick_h: I know SUN had the hotelling concept where you had this low-end terminal with a smart card reader
<jrwren> i've definitely heard of SunRays, but that was a dumb terminal with login like snap-l says
<snap-l> and it would connect you to a beefier computer
 * snap-l has a Sun Ray
<jrwren> of course you do :)
<snap-l> haven't been able to do anything useful withit
<jrwren> did you ever try the linux open source server for it?
<snap-l> jrwren: I'm the Katamari Damacy of computer shit
<snap-l> jrwren: No, it looked a little "interesting" to get started
<snap-l> Might try it later, though
<rick_h> hmm, yea can't find anything in a quick google
<snap-l> rick_h: I tihnk you're thinking of "a laptop". ;)
<snap-l> or even "a desktop". ;)
<rick_h> snap-l: no, this was a little block box, like the portable hard drive docks where you drop a bard HD into it
<rick_h> so the idea was you'd 'take your work' home with you
<rick_h> but popping out this unit and docking it at home
<rick_h> so much smaller than a laptop, without any peripherals
<brousch> Geekers. You can do most of that already with Linux on Android
<brousch> Most of the Ubuntu for Android stuff
<rick_h> can you SMS out through your phone?
<rick_h> and get your contacts from your phone into thunderbird type stuff?
<snap-l> And can you turn on the vibe unit in the phone to give you a foot massage?
<rick_h> heh
<rick_h> jcastro_: woodworking mtg thurs. Block out the schedule!
<brousch> It runs as an app, so you use SMS through your Android SMS program
<rick_h> lmao! just asked in #launchpad "JamesJRH- Hello, when will Launchpad support Git, Hg, and Darcs, in addition to Bzr?"
<jrwren> not to mention you get ubuntu instead of android. so dpkg, apt, ppa. those are all great things IMO
<rick_h> first, I love the inclusion of darcs
<jrwren> rick_h: includsion of darcs shows it is troll
<rick_h> yea, I mean the idea is that you're just booting into ubuntu and using it like you would your normal computer. Customize it, etc.
<snap-l> rick_h: Lunchpad better support SCCS, or I'm totally not using it.
<rick_h> you don't use it now :P
<snap-l> rick_h: That's not important. What is important is I'm letting you know I'll still not use it.
<snap-l> respect my geekrage
<rick_h> snap-l: one word for you.... ragequit
<rick_h> enjoy
 * snap-l ragequits: Ubuntu doesn't respect my choices.
<brousch> Huh, what would cause a package installed with pip to not show up in pip freeze?
<rick_h> brousch: if you don't have the right ve enabled
<rick_h> and you didn't install the package where you thought you installed it
<rick_h> or you used easy_install to install it
<brousch> That's not it
<brousch> pip install carbon
<rick_h> which pip
<rick_h> which python
<rick_h> python: import carbon
<rick_h> help(carbon) dir(carbon)
<brousch> python2.7
<rick_h> sorry meant that as a series of commands
<brousch> Hm, it seems to throw itself into /opt/graphite
<rick_h> $ which pip
<rick_h> $ which python
<rick_h> and making sure all that jives
<brousch> It is correct, but carbon is stupid
<rick_h> hah
<brousch> Also graphite-web is stupid
<brousch> They ignore your venv and install to /opt/graphite
<brousch> Damn fools
<brousch> I have a Ruby guy whining about Python packaging because carbon and graphite-web are stupid
<brousch> The projects are on Launchpad, therefore it is your fault
<jjesse> http://kentbrewster.com/who-likes-mitt/ you can watch people unfriend Mitt Romney on Facebook in real time :)
<greg-g> rick_h: what is tox?
<greg-g> (re twitter)
<rick_h> greg-g: python library to aid in working across python versions
<rick_h> http://pypi.python.org/pypi/tox
<rick_h> used to help run your tests from one codebase in different python venvs for different versions
<greg-g> ahh, cool
<snap-l> Oh, nice
<snap-l> rick_h: Someone mentioned Lococast in response to your deleted rant. :)
<rick_h> snap-l:  :( https://twitter.com/scitesy/status/268061744218390529
<rick_h> yea, that's the guy from codemash/pyohio
<brousch> Geekers https://bugs.launchpad.net/graphite/+bug/795713
<snap-l> rick_h: Maybe after 1DevDay?
<brousch> "@scitesy's tweets are protected.
<brousch> Only confirmed followers have access to @scitesy's Tweets and complete profile. Click the "Follow" button to send a follow request."
<snap-l> (Which is this weekend, which came as a surprise to me too)
<snap-l> brousch: "@mitechie no lococast? The Pyramid episode was very good. I am missing it."
<rick_h> snap-l: orly? I wasn't going to go so didn't think much on it tbh
<snap-l> rick_h: Weren't going to go? That's unpossible
<rick_h> yea, wife's going to a conference in chicago and I've got boy duty this weekend
<rick_h> I've been on a conference break.
<snap-l> You have a ticket. :)
<rick_h> not that I'm aware of...I never promoted it on lococast and such
<snap-l> Bring Michael. He'll love running through Cobo Hall
<rick_h> lol
<snap-l> I thought they sent you one.
<rick_h> do they have a napping room for us? :P
<snap-l> rick_h: They do have lunch
<snap-l> Catered
<snap-l> http://1devdaydetroit.com/2012/11/04/1devday-details-and-schedule/
<rick_h> snap-l: yea, I'm going to be home this weekend. Let me know how it goes
<snap-l> rick_h: Bummer. Was hoping you were going to head on down.
<rick_h> sorry :(
<snap-l> rick_h: How am I supposed to know what aspirational developer talks I should be going to if you don't go? :)
<snap-l> *sniff*
<rick_h> snap-l: problem solved http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1353851/
<snap-l> Pthhhpt.
<rick_h> hehe
<snap-l> I'm going to the OpenGL talk, though
<snap-l> I've wanted to get into that for a while now
<snap-l> It's rgith against the Hadoop one, though, which I also find fascinating
<rick_h> yea, but what are you going to actually do with hadoop?
<rick_h> and the overview you'll get in a short talk is going to be all show
<snap-l> Lord knows. Big Data might come sooner than later over here.;)
<snap-l> I mean, we have SOOOO MUUUUCH DAAAAATA.
<snap-l> ;)
<rick_h> yep...and it's scattered to the 9 moons in mysql with no real support for getting/using it :P
<snap-l> rick_h: We just need one giant Hadoop cluster to warehouse it. ;)
<rick_h> riiight...that'll get suport for a day, maybe two max before some excel sheet comes up
<snap-l> hahahahaha
<Blazeix> ha, i'm not going to any ove those sessions. maybe i should reconsider :)
<Blazeix> s/ove/of/
<rick_h> Blazeix: well they were focused on the non jvm/.net loving dev who also thinks things like 'growing our dev community' sounds like someone else's issue
<rick_h> Blazeix: I'd build a different menu for you or jrwren :)
<snap-l> hey now
<rick_h> I would though. You have to take the person into account when picking talks
<snap-l> Just because I think the JVM is an abomination, and wouldn't touch .net, and think growing our dev community is a nice touchy feely sentiment that's someone elses problem doesn't mean... oh.
<Blazeix> haha, i doubt snap-l and i will be sharing much: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1353867/
<rick_h> hah
<Blazeix> i didn't realize it was so .NET heavy until just now
<snap-l> Maybe breaks and lunch, but that's the extent of it.
<Blazeix> i'm going to be on 'company booth' duty from 8 to 9, so you can come by and ask difficult questions.
<rick_h> hah
<snap-l> Oh, I'll get some Trivial Pursuit questions lined up
<rick_h> bah, there's not going to be mail today is there :/
<snap-l> rick_h: Nope. A lot of people died to make sure you don't get mail today.
<rick_h> wow, crashed my window VM by loading Bookie in IE
<snap-l> rick_h: Achievement: Unlocked
<rick_h> hah! #ifIE infinite_loop();
<waldo323_> feature?
<brousch> Yes. He doesn't want filthy IE users on his system
<brousch> It's quite an ingenious way of keeping out the riff-raff
<waldo323_> and to convince those who try to start using a different browser?
<Blazeix> ( http://www.crashie.com/ )
 * waldo323_ is tempted to try it
<brousch> I'm scaqred
<snap-l> God, getting an e-mail all in caps is like getting a drive-by screaming match
<snap-l> YOUR WELCOME SEE YOU THEN!
<waldo323_> are they happy or going to come by to beat you up?
<snap-l> I don't know
<snap-l> It's been a while since I've been to Golling, so maybe both
<greg-g> also, "YOUR"?
<greg-g> I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE/YOUR SAYING!
<brousch> He's saying the welcome is yours
<greg-g> oh, I get it. "BE WELCOME THAT I'LL SEE YOU THEN"
<greg-g> http://git-annex.branchable.com/assistant/share_with_a_friend_walkthrough/
<jrwren> what is .net heavy?
<Blazeix> jrwren: the list of talks i'm planning to attend at 1devday
<jrwren> ah, I see.
<jrwren> 1devday. yeah, i'm surprised too, I htink last year it was java heavy but .net light
<snap-l> There was some .net stuff there
<greg-g> what is this "would you like to install <webpage> thing that Fx on Ubuntu is asking me?"
<greg-g> erm, move that " to the right spot
<rick_h> greg-g: http://askubuntu.com/questions/203100/what-does-would-you-like-to-install-twitter-mean
<rick_h> greg-g: see 12.10 changelog
<greg-g> ugh, disgusting
<greg-g> how do I remove them and prevent from being asked again? I see that question wasn't answered :)
<rick_h> greg-g: not use FF? :P
<rick_h> greg-g: must be something to uninstall I guess
<greg-g> http://askubuntu.com/questions/165688/how-do-i-get-the-browser-to-reask-me-to-integrate-with-a-website
<greg-g> chrom has it too, you know
<greg-g> chrom*
<rick_h> apt-cache search unity-webapp*
<rick_h> yea, but it doesn't bug me about installing anything
<rick_h> http://askubuntu.com/questions/169282/how-to-manage-unity-webapps-chromium-extension-different-options
<greg-g> sudo apt-get remove unity-webapps* did the trick, too :)
<rick_h> heh
<greg-g> why doesn't Ubuntu One preserve file access/created timestamps?
<jrwren> does it run as non-root?
<greg-g> correct, but I believe I've used that flag with rsync without root (I think)
<greg-g> (the -t flag)
<jrwren> maybe, but it doesnt' actually work.
<jrwren> timestamping files is a privileged operation
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-11-13
<snap-l> jcastro_: Going to make it tomorrow?
<snap-l> http://blackcirclerecords.bandcamp.com/album/well-live-on-songs-and-hope-instead <- This gives me the sad
<snap-l> Took the cat in for her spaying today.
<snap-l> House seems quiet without her.
<rick_h> hah
<jcastro_> snap-l: I should be there
<brousch> For the spaying? You are a true friend
<jcastro_> hah
<rick_h> lol, man discovers usb3 http://goo.gl/1kjX4
<rick_h> and crap, the perfectly crafted rick_h link bait is down :( http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4776859
<brousch> Down?
<brousch> Ah, I see
<rick_h> original site was down
<rick_h> and @#$#@ python libaries without any docs on their website
 * rick_h grumbles and branches it down locally to see how the #@$#$ to use it at all
<brousch> It's obvious!
<brousch> rick_h: I got confused at the end of the USB3 article. Then I noticed it was on r.bmark, and the comment authors were getting stripped off
<rick_h> brousch: yea, the comments on the coding horror aren't parsed well
<rick_h> they're supposed to get removed on sites so I'll have to debug that
<brousch> heh
<jrwren> that usb3 article makes me want more fast drives. I hate slow usb flash memoires.
<rick_h> yea, <3 usb3
<rick_h> I wish these came in usb3 http://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-Cruzer-Flash-Drive-SDCZ33-016G-B35/dp/B005FYNSZA/ref=sr_1_15?ie=UTF8&qid=1352815941&sr=8-15&keywords=sandisk
<jrwren> why those?
<brousch> tiny
<jrwren> oh, size.
<jrwren> nice.
<rick_h> yea, that kind of 'always leave it in' kind of nice size
<brousch> I  have a 32GB HP that's about the size of a quarter
<brousch> Basically 2x the size of a usb male end
<jrwren> if you are going to leave it in all the time, why not just use your internal storage?
<rick_h> because it's off device and you can swap it out
<brousch> USB2 though
<rick_h> rsync to second drive. be able to pull it out at a conference and swap files, etc
<brousch> hah http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA0SF0BP6766&Tpk=usb3
<rick_h> heh yea bigger than either ssd I have in my laptop
 * snap-l likes his USB3 drive
<snap-l> Though it's just for backups
<snap-l> Reminder: MUG meeting tonight, featuring the Ubuntu MI Loco (that's you all)
<brousch> I don't feel featured
<snap-l> brousch: You're full featured.
<brousch> I am fully functional
<jjesse> can someone explain to me the problems that Matthew Garrett is posting to his blog about Hex Code and it be rude or offensive to people?
<jjesse> i see them via Planet Ubuntu and not quite sure if I should care or not
<rick_h> I don't see Garrett on the planet blog list
<rick_h> so no idea, must have missed all this
<jjesse> wrong name sorry
<jrwren> http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/
<jjesse> yeah that one
<rick_h> oh, that was a while ago
<jjesse> he just posted about VMWare being as bad as Microsoft
<jrwren> at least babefeel is gender neutral. b16boob5 and 0boob135 is not
<rick_h> so yea, looks like they've got 'babe feel' as a constant
<jjesse> should i be offended?
<rick_h> well it's hostile to the other gender when the code base has things like this
<rick_h> you're supposed to pretend your a female programmer working on this codebase running into these
<jjesse> oh
<jrwren> except that a female wrote babefeel in the vmware code base. I'm not sure if she was thinking about brad pitt or fabio when she did so.
<jjesse> so i have to make sure i don't offend any race, gender, religion in my code now?
<jrwren> no, you don't have to.
<jrwren> if you want to be an asshole, you are free to do so.
<jrwren> we won't like you.
<jcastro_> smoser: you going to mug tonight?
<jrwren> and in this channel we ask that you follow the ubuntu CoC
<jcastro_> jrwren: how about you?
<jrwren> jcastro_: i am not.
<jjesse> i understand the code of contact and all that
<jjesse> i guess i just wonder how far this can go
<rick_h> https://plus.google.com/109177818181860045889/posts is female?
<jrwren> jjesse: please expand. tell me about how going too far is bad :)
 * rick_h is confused
<jrwren> rick_h: i was j/k
<jjesse> ok do we have to take into account all religious views?
<rick_h> jrwren: well @#$#@ I just spent the last bit going through the history and searching for this guy
<jjesse> that might exist
<jrwren> rick_h: lols, sorry
<jrwren> jjesse: only ones that sane people care about. Trash scientology all you want.
<rick_h> jjesse: it's all about your code. If you want to potentially have someone get pissed and not work on the code then whatever
<rick_h> but honestly, it's like the conferences all doing the CoC, Ubuntu CoC.
<rick_h> if you want all types to participate you've got to choke down the PC rulebook
<jrwren> Be Excellent To Each Other.
<rick_h> even in code
<jrwren> certainly in code too.
<jrwren> code is a tool for communicating ideas with the side effect that is makes machines do something. write it so.
<_stink_> and ultimately your speech/code is not protected from anger, scrutiny, and other bad reactions from others.
<_stink_> the 1st amendment only protects you from the government.
<_stink_> not from others, whether acting fairly or unfairly.
<smoser> jcastro_, i am.
<jrwren> that is right. I am free to irrationally hate on oracle and sun over teh same things which I don't hate on them when done by others.  #FREEDOME!!!!!
<jjesse> but the beauty is that most of the time you could change my code to make it unoffensive right?
<jjesse> like i accidentally offend people who believe in Goats as Gods then that person could change it
<jjesse> assuming its open source
<jrwren> yes.
<jrwren> there are accidents and then there are just immature stupidity.
<jrwren> the community in general is fighting against immature stupidity
<jjesse> but whose definition of immature stupidity?
<krondor> jrwren: that is indeed a fight that will be neverending: RTFM
<jjesse> look i'm not trying to come across as a jackass i'm just trying to figure this out
<jrwren> krondor: what do you mean?
<jrwren> jjesse: the communities definition of immature stupidity.
<jjesse> but once again you have to take into consideration every community definition of immature stupidity
<jrwren> the global community.
<krondor> jrwren I mean that you will always have members of a community that do not gel with more sensitive members
<jrwren> krondor: certainly true.
<jjesse> too me it seems that reddit has a definition of immaturity and stupidity than most Ubuntu channels i frequent
<jrwren> jjesse: depends on which subreddit :)
<jjesse> jrwren, thats my point exactly do i have to take into consideration every single subreddit that may exist or may exist sometime in the future for figuring out if my variable might offend someone
<jjesse> take it to the extreme
<krondor> jjesse it's obviously abstract, even in legal systems you see courts struggle around 'what would a reasonable person' type things.
<jjesse> what if Statanic Ubuntu or Muslim Ubuntu offends my Christians beliefes
<jjesse> do they have to take that into consideration
<jrwren> you don't have to do anything.
<jrwren> the community will be more welcoming to you if you offend fewer people.
<jrwren> your point is that someone is always going to be offended, and that is true.
<krondor> you can't please everyone
<jjesse> but what about Christian Ubuntu that offends the Muslim population or if Muslim Ubuntu offends the Christians
<jrwren> jjesse: what about it?
<jjesse> jrwren, exactly that's what i'm getting at
<jjesse> should we b focusing on a variable that contains the word boobs instead of trying to make the product better and used by more people
<jrwren> jjesse: here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mores  :)
<jrwren> jjesse: ah, so your question is what should we focus on. That is ultimately an individual question of values.
<_stink_> so i would claim that there are only two motivations for trying to not offend people: 1) your own moral judgment and 2) your desire to be well liked/respected in a community
<_stink_> if neither of those motivate you in a particular case, then just do what you want.
<jrwren> jjesse: The community at large has decided to value creating a welcome environment and that means focusing on NOT doing exclusionary things like the aforementioned.
<jjesse> jrwren, once again i'm just trying to understand things not be a jerk
<jrwren> yes, what _stink_ said, and for evidence you can see the questionable decisions and behavior of RMS and ESR
<jjesse> i fully support being as unoffensive to people at conferences etc
<jrwren> jjesse: I'm sorry if I am responding as if you are jerk. I'm honestly just trying to engage in teh discussion. I think that I understand your questions.
<jrwren> jjesse: why qualify that to "at conferences" ?
<jjesse> but wonder if we should focus our time on checking for precense of boob as variable instead of fixing the problems
<jrwren> the presense of boob as variable IS a problem.
<jjesse> jrwren, i don't think you are making me sound like a jerk
<jjesse> but not to the 99% of the people that don't read the code right?
<_stink_> maybe i just mistyped 'bob'.
<jrwren> jjesse: oh sure, its not a problem to an end user (whatever that means)
<jrwren> it is a huge problem when brilliant female programmers decide not to engage in the community because they feel unwelcomed.
<jjesse> jrwren, i fully agree w/ that comment you just made
<jrwren> That is the problem.
<jrwren> you said "i fully support being as unoffensive to people at conferences etc". That also is not a problem to 99% of the people that don't attend the conference. So why bother?
<jjesse> look i'm not female so i don't know, but does "boob" offend females?  dumb question right?
<jrwren> ha, no.
<jrwren> I doubt offend is the right world, but does it welcome them?
<_stink_> jjesse: i would claim that it's not your place to define what offends others.
<jrwren> Why is it there?
<jjesse> no idea
<jrwren> is it being there important? what purpose does it serve?
<jjesse> but probably due to immaturity as mentioned earlier
<_stink_> just as only you can define what offends you.
<jjesse> at least that would be y argument
<jrwren> what purpose could it serve other than being devisive ?
<jrwren> What a female has a question about code and does a git blame and sees who wrote this do you think they will be more or less willing to engage and ask? or to contribute?
<jrwren> Most smart females I know would role their eyes and write off the idiot man child running around yelling "boobies". It should not be much different in code.
<jjesse> or just change the variable?
<jrwren> do you want to be the woman with the blame in the git history for changing that constant?
<_stink_> i don't think it's the presence of the word per se.  it's the tolerance of developers who think it's a good idea to behave like that.
<jrwren> right, its certainly not JUST 0xb00b135 its the attitude that goes along with it.
<rick_h> https://twitter.com/boucher/status/268224736448892928 lmao of the day
<snap-l> rick_h: Hah. :)
<jrwren> its The Atlantic, wtf does anyone expect.
<rick_h> oh come on, it didn't make you laugh?
<rick_h> you're too serious today :P
<jrwren> oh no, it definitely made me laugh.
<jrwren> i retweeted it :)
<jrwren> omg, I just had the craziest idea for a vim plugin.
<jrwren> read the current active tab in your web browser and tokenize it and add those tokens to autocomplete. How often are you reading docs in web browser for what you are writing in vim?
<rick_h> how are you going to tokenize for various web content layouts?
<jrwren> same way vim would
<jrwren> so yes, there would be lots of garbage, but that is OK
<snap-l> How am I going to tokenize G+?
<snap-l> or reddit. :)
<snap-l> lo[tab]lwtfbbq
<rick_h> he said docs, not the drunk/insane :P
<snap-l> rick_h: Some days I wonder if there's a difference. :)
<krondor> If there's anything Penguicon has taught me, it's that the best docs are written drunk.  And presentations given...
<greg-g> * is better drunk.
<greg-g> drunk > *
<greg-g> pick your favorite way of doing it :)
<snap-l> swinging from the lampshades seems to be a crowd pleaser
<snap-l> Er, should have read that more carefully.
<waldo323_> krondor, does that mean we should have more late night tech talks?
<snap-l> waldo323_: I think it means we should spend more of the PCon budget on good beer.
<waldo323_> :)
<waldo323_> ooooh i wonder if i could have a free as in beer and with beer tech segment
<waldo323_> not sure how i'd pull off the free bit for the beer though
<waldo323_> s/we/i/
<ColonelPanic001> penguicon is coming up, I nearly forgot
<ColonelPanic001> I should probably go to that
<rick_h> feels like that just happened, when is it?
<rick_h> isn't it like next spring?
<ColonelPanic001> TBD, according to their site
<ColonelPanic001> it'll probably say that until the night of
<rick_h> heh, so that's hardly coming up
<ColonelPanic001> I expect the schedule will be up the week after the event
<rick_h> you have such faith
<ColonelPanic001> that's their standard procedure :P
<ColonelPanic001> well, almost. They got the new-agey shakra and auras stuff up nice and early
<waldo323_> hotel is the question at the moment
<waldo323_> there was a possible date but it conflicted with notacon
<waldo323_> so they are trying for the week after that
<_stink_> ColonelPanic001 likes to be early for everything
<ColonelPanic001> I plan to get to Penguicon a week in advance
<ColonelPanic001> just in case
<krondor> waldo323: thank god for avoiding con conflict, olf + grrcon + derbycon == fail
<krondor> also I'm all for late night tech talks, because a.) not a morning person, and b.) late night people are more fun in my experience.
<brousch> We (GrrCon) had Kevin Mitnic
<krondor> brousch:  I wanted to goto grrcon badly actually but had told olf I'd speak and then found out they were the same weekend.
<jrwren> anyone know deb's well enough to know dh_strip and how it works?
<jrwren> ah, nvm. it works with dpkg-buildflags
<snap-l> IE10 was released.
<snap-l> That makes 4 supported versions of IE?
<snap-l> 7, 8, 9, and 10?
<rick_h> 8/9/10?
<rick_h> I don't think 7 is any longer
<rick_h> and that's just until XP falls off support again then 8 can go away I think
<snap-l> Is it in that meta-support that 6 enjoyed?
<rick_h> yea
<rick_h> no support but wtf people can still install and never upgrade
<brousch> XP has IE8. I wouldn't go lower than that
<rick_h> right, we got to move to IE8 for launchpad even for our asia peeps on xp machines
<rick_h> but xp can't get 9/10 if I recall due to hardware accel.
<krondor> 7 is 'required' at my work because of stupid software that is only certified for that
<snap-l> krondor: Ugh
<rick_h> right, supported != stupid companies ... sure there's still IE6 because of that crap out there to this day
<krondor> 8 is going to be certified in a few months
<rick_h> hah, just in time to be dead again wheeee
<krondor> windows desktop refresh is doing windows 7 32 bit because 64 bit isn't certified
<krondor> i could go on
<snap-l> krondor: Oh FFS
<krondor> damnit now I need a beer, hope I can make it mug lol
<brousch> Working on my internal app, I am ignoring IE
<brousch> It is a wonderful thing
<rick_h> did a happy dance when I tested my huge JS rewrite of the banners in launchpad and they 'just worked' in IE
<rick_h> good js > *
<rick_h> no animation though since no css3 animatinos :(
<brousch> Fluff
<rick_h> the pretty!
<Blazeix> i'm using IE10 at home, and you get the pretty
<snap-l> God, I have to release a Club Metal soon.
<Blazeix> (well, when i'm not booted to linux)
<rick_h> I'm debating on if I should upgrade in my VM since we're not really testing anything in IE10 yet I might just stick with 9 for a while
<snap-l> 17 tracks in the backlog.
<snap-l> rick_h: I'd upgrade once Windows 7's version isn't a pre-release
<snap-l> though if you make a WIndows 8 VM, you get it gratis
<rick_h> The Droid DNA has a 5-inch Super LCD 3 1920Ã1080 screen *sigh*
 * snap-l does not envy folks who upgrade directly from WIndows XP to Windows 8
<rick_h> and my desktop dock: HDMI2 connected 1920x108
<snap-l> That's got to be a shock like going from Ubuntu 10.04 desktop to 12.04
<rick_h> err 1080 that is :)
<snap-l> rick_h: 1920x108 = UWXTVGA. ;)
<Blazeix> if you're still running windows xp you deserve whatever hell you get
<greg-g> I have a winxp vm
<greg-g> its the only windows vm I could get
<rick_h> win7 vm here
<snap-l> I still have WinXP
<rick_h> bought the stupid home professional (wtf does that mean?)
<snap-l> It's what we use for work
<greg-g> I guess I bought a laptop with win7 on it, so I wouldn't feel bad with some loaned win7 vm, but, yeah
<snap-l> rick_h: I fucking HATE Windows' pricing levels
<snap-l> Home Professional sounds like "Sun and Sound Package"
<greg-g> antifeatures
<snap-l> "Oh, you want cloth seats? That's only in the basic package"
<snap-l> "Oh, you want a leather-wrapped steering wheel? That's in our NASCAR package"
<greg-g> it's worse than that, it is seriously just flipping a few bits to enable more IP connections (for the difference with the Windows Server packages)
<snap-l> greg-g: Yeah, I know. It's like the stupid per CPU licenses of VMS
<snap-l> $10K to enable multi-user.
<greg-g> indeed
<greg-g> it pains people like me who wish more of the world did utility pricing, not rent seeking
<snap-l> Well, I can see why it might make sense on a physical product
<snap-l> but this bundling shit drives me insane as a software user
<greg-g> <rant>Monopolies are harmful to society no matter then medium</rant> ;)
<greg-g> the shortest Greg rant ever
<greg-g> actually, no, thats:
 * greg-g grumbles
<snap-l> That said, having purchased my car as the happy medium between what I wanted, and what I didn't want, I can bitch about not servicing the customer. ;)
<snap-l> Upgraded radio = sunroof
<snap-l> and for a climate where we see the sun 1/4 of the year, that's pretty stupid
<snap-l> I don't need another entry point for water in my life.
<greg-g> :)
<rick_h> yea, the Taureg I checked out had a giant sun roof that went to the back seat, which was impressive as hell
<rick_h> until I thoguht "damn, I bet that's $$ to fix"
<snap-l> rick_h: Yeah, the reason we didn't go with the Beetle was because the side windows have to go down in order to open the door
<jcastro_> lol
<snap-l> and all JoDee could think of was "when that motor burns out, you're trapped
<rick_h> and because we'd make fun of you for driving the beetle
<greg-g> haha
<brousch> I would celebrate his lifestyle choice
<greg-g> hey now guys, we're in the post-gender society, snap-l can drive whatever he wants.
<snap-l> I'm secure enough in my manhood to drive a Beetle.
<greg-g> word
<greg-g> I snark, but take it for the true parts that are hidden in it
<rick_h> snap-l: that's good, because we'd help you work on that security
<snap-l> And it's the new beetle, that doesn't have a fake flower vase.
<greg-g> THEY GOT RID OF THAT?!
<snap-l> greg-g: 'fraid so
<rick_h> ...beetle...that is all
<snap-l> and they made it longer.
<snap-l> I'd callenge any one of you to sit in a Beetle and think "I really don't like this car"
<rick_h> been in one...no likey
<snap-l> Except rick_h, who can hate anything on a dime. ;)
<rick_h> I'm just opinionated :P
<snap-l> Yeah, I don't think rick_h would ever cotton to the Beetle.
<snap-l> Funny thing is I think the Beetle has as much trunk space as our Caliber.
<rick_h> http://www.rpmgo.com/volkswagen-new-beetle-pick-up-truck-edition-has-everything-you-need-for-hauling-flowers
<snap-l> Caliber = shit for hauling things.
<rick_h> I mean...even when they try to add some testosterone...fail
<snap-l> rick_h: Actually, I could see that on the road.
<rick_h> I can see it on the road np...just not with me in it
<rick_h> see scion
<snap-l> hah
<rick_h> beetle is like those stupid box cars
<snap-l> Oh c'mon. What's wrong with Scions?
<snap-l> Other than I'd never be caught in one.
<rick_h> people buy them sure, but I'd have to poke fun at anyone here driving one
<rick_h> even this is filled with ...nope http://www.autoblog.com/2010/05/17/rendered-speculation-one-possibility-for-next-gen-new-beetle/
<rick_h> the front of that one looks like the trunk of a real car
<brousch> I don't see a problem with http://www.scion.com/cars/FR-S/
<krondor> snap-l:  I once drove someone's beetle from the front of a dorm to a parking space, went to move the seat and broke off the plastic knob.
<rick_h> lol, that's what I hated. The whole dash (and it was HUGE) was all plasticy and cheap feeling
<snap-l> krondor: You desecrated the Beethe.
<rick_h> lol, here you go snap-l http://www.flickr.com/photos/madphysicist/2247759275/
<krondor> it was the second worst interior failure in a car I've experienced.  Number 1 was driving down the road when my rear view interior mirror fell off ('92 ford taurus in 2004)
<rick_h> lol, at least that car had some years on it first
<krondor> I believe that car was manufactured from rust painted silver
<snap-l> krondor: Yeah, that's the Taurus alright.
<krondor> so I'm upset that the dna has as much ram as my laptop, a better screen, and more cpu cores
<snap-l> Had that happen in my Alero, but that was after the second windshield repair
<brousch> krondor: DNA?
<krondor> http://www.engadget.com/2012/11/13/htc-droid-dna-verizon/
 * snap-l loved the Alero. Was a welcome change from the shitbucket transmittions of the last two Ford products I had.
<brousch> HTC is paying off Apple. They can go suck an egg
<snap-l> brousch: I don't blame any company for trying to avoid litigation
<snap-l> I think it's humorous in the wake of the Samsung / Apple litigation that Samsung raised the prices of the A6
<brousch> That will encourage Apple to keep the lawsuits flowing
<snap-l> though I don't ascribe that to anything to do with the lawsuit
<brousch> Also the one time I tried to root an HTC I failed, so they can go suck an egg for that too
<snap-l> brousch: so much hostility
<krondor> I've had good luck with htc actually, but I dislike sense ui, well and motoblur, actually anything not stock android pretty mcuh
<brousch> Fuckem, there are many alternatives
<krondor> s/mcuh/much/
<snap-l> krondor: ++
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-11-14
<snap-l> Evening, everyone
<snap-l> Thank you, jcastro_ for taking the reigns.
 * rick_h starts packing up the car http://goo.gl/gea8d
<jjesse-home> can i join?
<jjesse-home> i think i read startups are moving to kansas city and using people's living room for office space
<greg-g> me three me three!!!
<rick_h> morning
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> Have a very drugged kitten this morning
<snap-l> last night she was best described as "stoned"
<snap-l> Even the vet called her stoned
<snap-l> s/vet/technician/
<rick_h> yea, gotta love it when the pets get the good drugs
<rick_h> wahoo android 4.2
<brousch> bastard
<brousch> I still have nothing over 2.3.7
<rick_h> nexus 7 ftw
<brousch> Oh wait, my touchpad came in, so I have WebOS 3
<brousch> WebOS > *
<rick_h> hah
<rick_h> one day...holding out hope
<brousch> At least now I can play around with it
<brousch> My fear is I will like it more than Android and get sucked into its tiny ecosystem
<rick_h> yea, HP did have some updates recently
<rick_h> and I'd still rather use it for dev work, but no users/devices :(
<brousch> old devices
<brousch> Hm, looks like openwebos has been ported to galaxy nexus
<brousch> http://webos-ports.org/wiki/Galaxy_Nexus
<snap-l> rick_h: You just want to Javascript all the things.
<rick_h> :)
<snap-l> http://shop.oreilly.com/category/deals/math.do?code=DEAL&imm_mid=09b53f&cmp=em-npa-books-videos-deal-day-math-direct <- Math DotD
<jrwren> brousch: run 4.x x86 in a VM if you want newer than 2.3.7
<brousch> jrwren: I am, but I don't count it
<jrwren> so you do have newer than 2.3.7 :)
<jrwren> i maintain ubuntu is not for desktop. why doesn't nautilus have a run as... option to run something as root or another user?
<rick_h> huh?
<jrwren> my use case is ubuntu in a VM, installing the vm tools. the vm tools CD gets mounted and a window pops up, that is great. the next step is running hte installer as root. You can't do this from natilus. It is a shame.
<brousch> So tempted to reply to https://twitter.com/chrismcdonough/status/268514999603953666 with "One user?! tThat's like 20% of all Pyramid users"
<jjesse> i got distracted by "i'm a toy that squirts rainbows"
<rick_h> lol, me too
<rick_h> in case you guys don't follow the python lists http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1358061/
<rick_h> kind of cool to see a db vendor getting Mike involved like that
<snap-l> rick_h: Which list was that on?
<rick_h> python-list@python.org
<snap-l> Ah. I don't think I have a current sub to that list
<snap-l> It just showed up on announce
<jrwren> i don't.
<jrwren> i just read ideas.
<jrwren> what is volume like on that one?
<snap-l> Python List is pretty heavy traffic
<snap-l> I tried digests on that one, but it wasn't that effective
 * snap-l has a love / hate relationship with digests
<brousch> People who respond to the digest version can die in a fire
<snap-l> brousch: You can use the mime digesting, but it's not that great in Thunderbird
<snap-l> it works, but Mutt's digest support is miles ahead
<snap-l> Y'know what, QUora can eat my balls
<snap-l> "You need to sign in in order to read the answers"
<snap-l> but I don't want to, so it actively goes through and blurs the text
<brousch> The new expert sex change
<snap-l> That doesn't make me want to participate, it makes me want to leave flaming bags of shit on their doorstop
<jjesse> quota used to be cool
<jjesse> now i think it sucks
<snap-l> I just blocked it from my search results
<snap-l> Was looking for a decent epub reader for Linux, and one of their links popped up
<snap-l> I don't have a problem with asking folks to sign in
<snap-l> I have a HUGE problem with obfuscating so I have to sign in
<rick_h> monitize baby!
<snap-l> And they can eat shit and dietize.
<snap-l> Seriously low tolerance for that stuff
<brousch> rick_h: That's great, coming from a Canonical employee
<rick_h> :)
<rick_h> brousch: I like getting a pay check, how about you?
<brousch> Sure, I'll take your paycheck :P
<UnFixed> Unforgiven: did you get your new house yet?
<ColonelPanic001> no
<UnFixed> crap
<UnFixed> hah
<ColonelPanic001> I'm here too, no harm done
<ColonelPanic001> you may choose from a multitude of channels
<UnFixed> yes
<UnFixed> i had a 3 in 10 chance of picking one you were in.
<rick_h> what kills me is that means he's not using tab complete for nicks :/
<UnFixed> i was
<UnFixed> but i switched between windows after tab-completing.
<rick_h> ah, gotcha
<rick_h> ok, we're cool then :P
<UnFixed> :D
<UnFixed> otherwise we'd probably have to dual
<UnFixed> duel*
<_stink_> or dual
<brousch> snap-l: Did you see this?
<brousch> http://deathmetalbaboon.com/how-to-listen-to-death-metal-1-2
<jrwren> why is code.launchpad.net so slow.
<jrwren> just clicking around on it feels slow.
<jrwren> does it set No Cache or something?
<jcastro_> jrwren: rick's never heard of memcached
<rick_h> :) it's a waste of good memory
<jrwren> lol.
<jrwren> no ETags, so that sucks.
<rick_h> jrwren: depends on what you're hitting
<jrwren> zome.server.http, so that is a bummer.
<jrwren> err.. zope
<rick_h> you hitting the actual loggerhead or just branch browser
<jrwren> https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pmake  and click link to https://launchpad.net/pmake
<jrwren> and i confirmed, no 304s, just 200s. you really could set Last-Modified and/or etags for 1 min or so.
<rick_h> yea, so we majority is the web page itself. In my network trace 1.3 of the 2.4
<rick_h> but yea, we don't use etags because we get into timestamp races across front end machines
<rick_h> and we stream the JS content so that you get it faster without us loading it all into memory
<rick_h> but it is fully squid cached so fast on our end, just network
<rick_h> and then there's the fact that it's coming from england DC vs in the US which I can't do anything about :()
<jrwren> england DC?!?!  that is probably teh latency i notice.
<jrwren> ugh.
<snap-l> jrwren: English packets laced with Guiness. ;)
<snap-l> and smelling faintly of fish and chips
<jrwren> its yet another reason to use github... support american made products. :p
<rick_h> hah
<snap-l> Those smell like BBQ sauce and want to change the radio to Country
<snap-l> and have to have jokes explained to them
<jrwren> snap-l: what is that wireles provider you use?
<jrwren> ting
<snap-l> Yeah
<snap-l> http://decafbad.net/2012/06/06/i-love-my-phone-company-or-why-ting-com-is-awesome/
<jrwren> i'm really starting to hate pyrex
<rick_h> jrwren: yea, what are you using it for?
<brousch> The cookware?
<jrwren> porting this to libevent2 https://code.google.com/p/pyevent/
<rick_h> ah, fun
<jrwren> it blows.
<rick_h> heh, yea I try to stay away from that stuff and let other smarter people do that
<jrwren> or I don't understand what ctypedef is supposed to do.
<jrwren> its like you ahve to reduce your typedefs to something pyrex knows
<jrwren> i drive right in. its fun.
<jrwren> i think my gripe is largely with 32/64bit clean C. pyrex seems to completely ignore the problem
<rick_h> http://trac.webkit.org/changeset/134092 lol
<snap-l> pfft. :)
<Blazeix> yeah, it needs to be Thingy1 so it doesn't clash with future Thingy implementations
<snap-l> exactly
<greg-g> so, who else didn't realize until yesterday that next week was thanksgiving?
 * rick_h is counting down the days
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> me too, now ;)
<rick_h> going to get some good shop time in next weekend. And I get pumpkin pie on thanksgiving so yay
<rick_h> jcastro_: you up for the woodworking meeting tomorrow night?
<rick_h> speaking of shop time
<greg-g> oh man so jealous jcastro_ gets to go to woodworking meeting!
<rick_h> well I dragged him to one, going for two
<waldo323_> the washtenaw lug is having a meeting about sshfs tomorrow for those of you in that area
<jcastro_> wait, lugwash is tomorrow?
<waldo323_> oo yeah, sorry to introduce choices
<jrwren> anyone ever seen tmux eat memory?  http://pastebin.com/P8KcnMd4
<rick_h> nope
<snap-l> No, that's unique
<brousch> OMG, I found something built on Pylons
<brousch> http://ckan.org/developers/about-ckan/
<Blazeix> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/13375357/proper-use-cases-for-android-usermanager-isuseragoat
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-11-15
<ColonelPanic001> Blazeix: that link is gold.
<derekv> http://www.rayninfo.co.uk/tips/zshtips.html
<derekv> i could be better at shell
<dzho> so say we all
<dzho> I'm going to start learning zsh just as soon as I finish mastering all of emacs
<rick_h> kGmorning
<snap-l> Hate it when my machine locks up overnight, and I don't know exactly what happened
<snap-l> Though umount apparently was tainted.
<rick_h> ugh
<snap-l> Yeah, not my idea of fun
<rick_h> http://pyvideo.org/video/1600/the-sqlalchemy-session-in-depth
<snap-l> Oh, nice
<snap-l> Hey, PyCon Canada got a really quick turn-around.
<rick_h> yea
<rick_h> they had some stuff up before the conference ended
<jrwren> dzho: lolz
<shakes808> morning all
<shakes808> http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/14/tech/web/google-fiber-kansas-city/index.html?hpt=hp_bn5
<shakes808> I want 1 Gigabyte connection :(
<jrwren> surely it is bit and not byte.
<jrwren> yeah, that is gigabit.
<shakes808> lol
<shakes808> :( bit byte :P
<shakes808> Gbs :D
<greg-g> almost an order of magnitude :)
<jrwren> math is hard, lets go shopping
<rick_h> party!
<snap-l> bah
<rick_h> that good?
<snap-l> Managed to mess up my grub config somehow
<snap-l> left my keyboard at home, so I'm using the standard issue mouse / keyboard
<snap-l> computer locked up last night
<rick_h> I know where you can get a nice mechanical keyboard :P
<snap-l> and forgot to charge my phone
<snap-l> Heh
<rick_h> doh doh doh
<snap-l> Well, funny enough, I gave my keyboard back to IT (Kevin) saying I'd never need it
<snap-l> Had to ask Joan for a loaner
<rick_h> double doh
<snap-l> Yeah, I M so smart.
<snap-l> SMRT
<shakes808> snap-l: lol
<snap-l> And now I have a kernel upgrade. This is going to be fun.
<snap-l> brb.
<snap-l> ack
<snap-l> and back, rather.
<jrwren> mech KB? where? I want it.
 * rick_h goes to his closet and pulls out a few
<jrwren> GIVE TO ME!
<snap-l> Oh jeez, it's time for the showroom to emerge. ;)
<greg-g> pull up the photo, rick_h  ;)
 * rick_h goes to look :/
<rick_h> hmm, this one is a bit old https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/116120911388966791792/albums/5519789968393119425/5567328634738767938
<rick_h> does that load for others? damn picasa/G+ integrating/messing things up
<rick_h> not all mechanical in that picture
<greg-g> got a 404
<greg-g> rick_h: no worries, don't divert your attention ;)
<snap-l> rick_h: I got it loading
<rick_h> :( I'm missing YUIConf
<Blazeix> i was going to point rick_h to an upcoming jquery conference in consolation.
<Blazeix> but then I got distracted by their cool website: http://jqueryto.com/
<snap-l> Wow, who the hell designed that jqueryto.com site?
<snap-l> It's like Ikea made a website, but got bored when it didn't have a hex wrench
<snap-l> Anyone excited that Wiley's imprints are now available via O'Reilly?
<rick_h> don't have any idea what wiley's imprints are
<snap-l> The ...For Dummies, Wrox, and Sybex books, as well as their own stuff
<snap-l> Not a lot of technical stuff
<snap-l> Though I did pick up a copy of GURPS for Dummies just for grins. :)
<snap-l> Today is not my favorite tech day. :)
<rick_h> heh
<rick_h> you know what? Some good ole hand tool woodworking would do you some good :P
<rick_h> no plugs involved...well lights
<snap-l> I'm afraid I'd take out a forest given how I'm performng today.
<snap-l> plane plan plane ZIP there goes Sequoia national.
<Blazeix> i like that jqueryto.com design
<snap-l> Blazeix: Bah
<snap-l> Too cluttered for me
<rick_h> yea, readable fail
<rick_h> it's that static background
<rick_h> the whole thing should scroll
<Blazeix> y'all are whack
<Blazeix> i'm all for weird interfaces when the information being displayed is simple
<rick_h> I'm ok with the idea, just not the static background. It changes the look and distracts the eye as you scroll
<snap-l> rick_h: ++
<jrwren> jqueryto.com looks great w/out js
<rick_h> there you go, exactly :)
<snap-l> Apparently the Wii now has a youtube channel
<snap-l> And there was much... rejoicing?
<jrwren> that is pretty cool
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-11-16
<jcastro_> n0p: flav
<jcastro_> flav
<jcastro_> http://www.soundslice.com/yt/lBWra6snX-g/
<jcastro_> a guy made an integrated youtube/guitar/html5 app
<jcastro_> look at that, and tell me that's not the awesomest thing ever.
<n0p> jcastro_: +10,000
<rumplestilzken> Hello there.
<rumplestilzken> Recommended here by shakes808, any c++ developers in?
<jrwren> rumplestilzken: i hesitate to call myself one
<jrwren> rumplestilzken: welcome to #ubuntu-us-mi
<jrwren> I hope you are well.
<rumplestilzken> thanks, i am. yourself?
<jrwren> this channel tends to be more active during EDT business hours.
<jrwren> I'm pretty good.
<snap-l> http://www.metalinjection.net/tv/view/10379/viking-girl-covers-mastodon-on-drums
<jrwren> who says you can't compress jpg?!?  xv turned 28GB into 25GB
<jrwren> snap-l: i'd listen but i"m too busy listening to gangnam style AGAIN
<snap-l> jrwren: Redeem yourself immediately
<snap-l> jrwren: You used xv to recompress jpeg files?
<snap-l> Say hello to more artifacts.
<jrwren> snap-l: huh? no.
<jrwren> tarred up my 28GB photos dir with tar -J which does xv and instead of a 28GB tar, I get a 25GB tar.xv
<snap-l> Ah, when you said xv, I thought you meant the old X image program
<jrwren> ha!  no.
<snap-l> Because that was definitely not high-fidelity image conversion
<jrwren> in an attempt to redeem my gangnam listening ears and brain, I shall listen to nightwish.
<snap-l> Watch that video instead
<snap-l> seriously.
<snap-l> and then listen to the last half-hour of my show on metal injection
<snap-l> http://metalinjection.fm
<snap-l> And then do a jig, that I might be amused.
<derekv> metalinjection.net requires additional plugins
<rick_h> http://benjaminkerensa.com/2012/11/15/wait-is-that-netflix-on-ubuntu OMG
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> Cat is not in her happy place.
<snap-l> She seemed OK, so we fed her. Then she threw up on thebed spread.
<snap-l> and then threw up behind teh dresser
<snap-l> and then proceeded to spend most of the night in her litter
<snap-l> not using it, afaict, just hiding in it.
<rick_h> ugh
<rick_h> sick pets are the worst
<rick_h> our dog had a bad reaction to the meds they put her on post surgery and she got sick most nights until we cut the meds for almost a week :/
<snap-l> Yay, another vet visit. :)
<snap-l> I don't think I'm going to be going to 1DevDay at this rate
<snap-l> so if someone else needs a ticket, please let me know
<rick_h> snap-l: put it up on twitter and we'll RT it
<nullspace> http://media.steampowered.com/client/installer/steam.deb
<nullspace> ^ oh yeah
<brousch> snap-l: What
<brousch> 's up?
<snap-l> Cat wasn't feeling well.
<snap-l> rick_h: posted.
<jrwren> happy friday all!
<snap-l> jrwren: Yeah, it is Friday, isn't it?
<rick_h> yea, sending the wife off for second weekend in 3 weeks
<rick_h> guys weekend!
<brousch> fun
<jrwren> you'll have to teach me how to do that someday.
<brousch> Do what?
<snap-l> Have a guy's weekend
<rick_h> well, it's more a 3yrs version of guy's weekend
<rick_h> but yea
<jrwren> sounds great to me.
<brousch> jrwren: Step 1: Have a male child
<rick_h> heh
<snap-l> jrwren: I think you could have a guys' weekend with a daughter.
<jrwren> heck, even a pops adn daughter weekend is good by me.
<rick_h> step 2: tell wife she can go to conference in your fav city
<jrwren> ah, step 1, turn wife into a professional
<rick_h> so 2weekends ago was the 'girls crop weekend' where they rent a house up on the lake up north and do photo albums once a year
<brousch> Surely she has some interests. Everything has a conference now
<rick_h> 3 of my aunts, wife, couple friends rent it out and go away
<rick_h> and keeps getting longer, left thurs this year
<snap-l> jrwren: The inappropriate scratch-off might be a little weird, though.
<jrwren> scratchoff?
<brousch> I don't know what he means. Genital scabs?
<jrwren> wtf brousch !
<brousch> Would that not be due to an inappropriate scratching contest?
<jrwren> oh, right.
<snap-l> sheesh, minor joke
<snap-l> OK, cat is back
<snap-l> she had an appetite accelerant, and now she's eating her dry food like I eat Krispy Kremes
<dzho> awww, wittle kitty has da munchums
<snap-l> Yeah, she's all about eating right now
<snap-l> looking so forward to her litter afterward
<snap-l> she'll probably poop out another kitten at this rate
<snap-l> And now she's playing with her mouse.
<brousch> The touchpad is better than the nook Color for reading PDFs
<brousch> 25% more pixels in width makes a difference
<rick_h> yea, why I like my kindle dx
<rick_h> that's the one nice thing aobut that larger form factor
<brousch> Too bad it's so darn big
<brousch> Apparently I can triple boot this thing: WebOS, CM9, and Ubuntu
<widox> rick_h: http://vimcasts-online-1.eventbrite.com
<rick_h> widox: oh interesting
<rick_h> was bummbed when he tour fell through
<widox> yeah, me too
<widox> ~$127 on a wed. afternoon is meh
<rick_h> yea, I still need to read through his book still
<widox> same. sitting on my shelf :-/
<snap-l> The Practical Vim book?
<rick_h> yea
<snap-l> Yeah, it's on my virtual bookshelf too
<snap-l> what I read so far is very good, though
<brousch> This reminds me of greg-g http://i.imgur.com/EAEz4.jpg
<snap-l> I have never been more happy with a cat going to the liter.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-11-17
<snap-l> Good morning
<derekv> i'm at onedevday
<rick_h> party!
<derekv> i'm at a talk about refactoring
<derekv> i had an idea about stack based langauges
<derekv> and i wanted to make a toy stack language
<derekv> but emacs busyhangs when i load up slime
<derekv> idkwtf
<derekv> slime is the defacto way to interact with lisp-like languages
<derekv> woot
<derekv> brew upgrade sbcl
<derekv> fixed it
<derekv> DSL here we come
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-11-18
<snap-l> evening
<rick_h> party
<snap-l> Cat is uncomfortable again
<jrwren> evening.
<jrwren> i'm finding cython MUCH nicer than pyrex. I should have moved weeks ago.
<snap-l> Good morining
<snap-l> And good afternoon
<rick_h> party
<snap-l> How goes?
<rick_h> not too bad, tired
<rick_h> how was 1devday?
<snap-l> I didn't go
<rick_h> ah right forgot
<rick_h> kitty better then?
<snap-l> Yeah, no worries
<snap-l> She's doing OK. Still worrying us a hair
<snap-l> Trying to get her to drink water
<snap-l> she's eating, though
<snap-l> I think she's uncomfortable
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-11-11
<cmaloney> https://github.com/landondyer/kasm/blob/master/LICENSE
<rick_h_> heh, well that's a new license
<rick_h_> morning
<jrwren> good morning.
<rick_h_> off to hack from peets if they're open. Will work on getting back our CHC room. Wish me luck.
<trevlar> good luck!
<trevlar> they are open
<trevlar> stopped in this morning
<cmaloney> trevlar: Awesome!
<jjesse> morning
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h_> ugh, we're done for here
<cmaloney> rick_h_: What happened?
<cmaloney> no meeting room?
<brousch> Trying a new coffee shop?
<rick_h_> cmaloney: no, the room was opened up to the main area and it's additional searting
<cmaloney> Bah
<brousch> Bring your own whiteboards as partitions
<rick_h_> the table sizes are all pretty small
<rick_h_> there's on 'big table' like they used to have out here
<rick_h_> though they have fresh roasted beans, so I'll have to start sending cmaloney here to get me coffee beans :P
<cmaloney> So it'll be a challenge to get the big table
<rick_h_> and wtf, first day open and tables are crooked already
<cmaloney> Are the tables square or round?
<rick_h_> mix, looks about half and half
<cmaloney> OK, so if need be we could improvise
<rick_h_> I mean, if no one was here, we could pull together enough square tables, but right now the place is packed and there's no way we could get 4 people together
<rick_h_> not sure how it'll be wed nights
<cmaloney> Well we already know the Starbucks on Woodward is crowded and we've managed
<rick_h_> yea, but we've only had 4 people there. I think most folks have stayed away
<cmaloney> Maybe we could try Peet's on Wed to see if it's any better.
<rick_h_> yea, at this point I guess we'll hit it up this week and go from there
<rick_h_> but :(
<cmaloney> Yeah, big :(
<cmaloney> Did they at least keep the fireplace?
<rick_h_> nope
<brousch> There's always mcdonald's. They have coffee and free wifi
<cmaloney> bastards
<rick_h_> it's totally redone. They took more space for the barista area, smaller tables overall
<rick_h_> anyone want to work for my wife's medical practice? Their IT guy is leaving
<cmaloney> They use Windows right?
<rick_h_> I'm working on getting a job description
<rick_h_> cmaloney: yea, lots of windows but the guy had been intereted in pulling some linux in. Not sure what all they run/etc
 * cmaloney doesn't do Windows. ;)
<cmaloney> (if he can help it)
<rick_h_> heh, same here
<rick_h_> heh, for some reason bzr pull origin master doesn't work :/
<cmaloney> wonder if git would handle that better. ;)
<brousch> Medical software is all Windows
<brousch> And Windows servers
<flipsidecreation> hello
<brousch> haloo?
<flipsidecreation> heeeelo
<flipsidecreation> or perhaps a happy monday
<cmaloney> howdy.
<flipsidecreation> So I am not liking the new unity as much and I am thinking about my ubuntu to gnome 3
<flipsidecreation> should I just run gnome Ubuntu or load 13.10 and just add gnome3 ?
<brousch> KDE
<brousch> or XFCE
<flipsidecreation> but gnome 3 is so pretty!
<jjesse> KDE rules
<brousch> Pretty is for Appholes
<cmaloney> I use Ubuntu 12.04 with pretty much the defaults.
<flipsidecreation> that is what I am using now on my desktop
<flipsidecreation> I am annoyed that they removed the F3 spit screen in later versions
<cmaloney> It took me a little while to get used to it, but there's some quick tweaks you can make to make it nicer.
<trevlar> rick_h_: are you in the main area or the new back section where there's a piece of paper on the wall that says "mirror goes here"
<cmaloney> What's that?
<cmaloney> (The F3 Split Screen)
<rick_h_> trevlar: main area by the front door
<flipsidecreation> the F3 to split the file view, I use it as I transfer files between computers and servers frequently
<flipsidecreation> in Nautilis
<cmaloney> flipsidecreation: Ah, I've just used tabs
<cmaloney> and Nautilus is likely direct from GNOME so you're going to run into the same thing with GNOME 3
<infused_> hello all
<flipsidecreation> that feature is still in Nautilis GNOME 3, Ubuntu  just disabled it in later versions
<cmaloney> flipsidecreation: Really? That's strange that they'd remove it
<cmaloney> Doesn't seem to make sense.
<flipsidecreation> yeah, stupid
<flipsidecreation> they did not re purpose the F3 for any other use
<flipsidecreation> and its still in the new Debian
<cmaloney> http://askubuntu.com/questions/285588/is-there-a-way-to-restore-nautilus-split-screen-f3-feature
<cmaloney> So perhaps it was added back but not pulled into the later Ubuntu releases.
<flipsidecreation> " doesn't work well with touch" is a dumb reason
<cmaloney> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=676858 <- That's a GNOME reasoning
<flipsidecreation> huh, my bad.  I thought it was Ubuntu
<cmaloney> Yeah, unfortunately it's easy to pick on Ubuntu these days
<cmaloney> but not everything is their fault. :)
<flipsidecreation> well, at least I can still complain about having to remove the Amazon search lens
<flipsidecreation> :)
<cmaloney> Feel free. :)
<cmaloney> but yeah, I've never used it. I've generally opened two windows.
<cmaloney> so, I learned something today that'll be deprecated. :)
<rick_h_> https://plus.google.com/103632865447092840471/posts/XD3kkUKGSnZ
<flipsidecreation> I use the Amazon search lens as an argument as to why I run Debian as my servers
 * rick_h_ throws down the mic
<rick_h_> and walks away
<rick_h_> flipsidecreation: really? it's a reason to run debian on a server without any UI or scopes or anything?
 * rick_h_ must not have had enough coffe yet
<rick_h_> clearly not if I can't spell coffee today ugh
<cmaloney> Do not poke happy fun rick_h_
<rick_h_> widox_: I'm getting angry at FF again, curse this stupid tool
<flipsidecreation> servers don't need GUI
<rick_h_> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/1074/ wtf is the error again?
<rick_h_> flipsidecreation: kind of my point, so what's the rational you're selling on the AWS search scope being a reason to run debian on a server?
<jjesse> umm why wouldn't you run ubuntu server than
<jjesse> this seems like a dumb arguement
<rick_h_> jjesse: that's why I'm confused
<flipsidecreation> doesn't Ubuntu server have the same shopping lens in the GUI?
<jjesse> sorry that might be a bit mean but if you are running a GUI less server than there would be no scopesat all
<jjesse> flipsidecreation: only if you install ubuntu-desktop
<jjesse> on the server
<cmaloney> Ubuntu Server doesn't ship with any gui utilities
<flipsidecreation> then i stand corrected
<flipsidecreation> I thought server came with GUI
<cmaloney> np. Just seems like an awful lot of baby to throw out. :)
<jjesse> sorry for the "dumb" comment
<jjesse> when you do an install of Ubuntu Server there are no tools installed
<cmaloney> no "gui" tools.
<flipsidecreation> I have been using Debian since about 2003 when i switched from Redhat.  I change slwo
<rick_h_> rather a bit like a debian install :P
<cmaloney> That's fine. If you have need for Debian then go with it
<rick_h_> /install/server install
<cmaloney> but if you like the Ubuntu flavoring save for the lenses then Ubuntu Server will do the trick.,
<rick_h_> just please watch the FUD, there's more than enough for all of us going around these days.
<flipsidecreation> I try not to add to the FUD
<jjesse> I heard the reason there are no more unicorns is because Mark killed them all :)
<rick_h_> we at ubuntu clearly believe in a unicorn-free world
<rick_h_> those damn hopping things only distracted from a pure user experience
<jjesse> umm totally you notice no release has ever had the word unicorn in it
<flipsidecreation> and on that note, one of my clients was getting pitched by another IT company who told them because they used open source they were at HUGE risk!
<rick_h_> and kept us from making a ton of $$$$
<flipsidecreation> they even went as far to say other companies might not want to do business with them because they used open source software
<rick_h_> yep, seems to be killing amazon, google, facebook, github, ...
<rick_h_> poor companies dealing in OSS have no hope to stick around or eek out a living
<flipsidecreation> The IT company doing the sales pitch loves Microsoft and big service contracts.
<cmaloney> Of course they do
<flipsidecreation> My client politely showed them to the door
<cmaloney> there's money to be made in prolonging the problem. ;)
<flipsidecreation> yup
<flipsidecreation> They said the open source firewall was a HUGE risk
<brousch> You can install any GUI tools you want into Ubuntu server after install
<rick_h_> brousch: yes, but that's not the point :)
<flipsidecreation> I have a new server to build, I will have to give Ubuntu server a good look :)
<brousch> All of my servers are Ubuntu 12.04 LTS
<flipsidecreation> any issues?
<brousch> None
<flipsidecreation> nice
<rick_h_> brousch: want to move out to the cool side of the state and run IT for my wife's medical practice? :)
<brousch> ew
<brousch> No Windows servers for me
<brousch> They have a full time IT guy?
<flipsidecreation> but fixing windows servers is how I make a living!
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, it's a big practice
<brousch> flipsidecreation: Where are you located?
<flipsidecreation> Taylor MI
<brousch> rick_h_: And since when is Detroit "the cool side"?
<brousch> Maybe in 1975
<jjesse> yeah who died and made detroit cool
<rick_h_> brousch: :)
<flipsidecreation> I thought Detroit was cool back in the 1950's
<brousch> Everything I read says Detroit is a crime-ridden corrupt food desert cesspool
<flipsidecreation> not all of Detroit is like that
<brousch> Where as my side gets a new "Top 10 for <good thing>" award every month
<flipsidecreation> brousch: where are you from?
<brousch> Grand Rapids
<brousch> rick_h_: Taylor is in Detroit. You should hire flipsidecreation
<flipsidecreation> brousch: I agree, Grand Rapis is > Detroit
<brousch> We just had a really good givecamp last weekend
<flipsidecreation> I would move but I have my business and family here
<brousch> Move them too. Grand Rapids is top 10 for places to raise a family and for employment
<flipsidecreation> I know, but it might difficult moving my ex-wife unless I pay for it.
<brousch> Actually we do need more Linux contractors here. They are hard to find since everyone is gainfully employed
<flipsidecreation> certainly something to think about.
<brousch> If you live on the east side of GR, it's about a 2 hour drive to Taylor
<flipsidecreation> but I only have an 13 minute drive now
<brousch> Just saying. Not too bad ;)
<rick_h_> someone take my internet away today before I do real damage
<brousch> what's your ip address?
<rick_h_> 70.194.6.116
<brousch> You want it removed via DDOS or pedophile report?
<rick_h_> brousch: hmm, DDOS probably better kthx
<brousch> OK, I'm posting to slashdot about how you are personally responsible for mir and unity
<rick_h_> brousch: rgr, thanks
<brousch> rick_h_: What is setting you off today?
<rick_h_> brousch: the world I think
<brousch> Is it coffee house rage?
<flipsidecreation> perhaps its just Monday
<rick_h_> brousch: FF extesion dev, the coffee shop fubar'ing CHC, the whole AMZ scope ubuntu crap, and general monday'ness I think
<brousch> flipsidecreation: Are you saying rick_h_ has a case of the Mondays?
<flipsidecreation> perhaps, they are contagious
<rick_h_> and annoying people https://plus.google.com/106169754790060033027/posts/hBzcB42wXqa
<brousch> rick_h_: Bookie FF extension?
<rick_h_> brousch: trying, waf and widox_ have each gotten bits working and I REALLY want to make it work
<flipsidecreation> There are a lot of F-Bombs being dropped on twitter http://www.fbomb.co/
<rick_h_> but damn if FF doesn't just try to enrage me
<rick_h_> flipsidecreation: congrats?
<flipsidecreation> rick_h_: ?
<rick_h_> flipsidecreation: about the f-bombs. I'm not sure how to reply to that. Came a bit out of left field? Or was that a demo of cranky mondays?
<brousch> Hm, I was hoping for a graph of fbombs over time showing that there are more on Mondays than other days
<flipsidecreation> it was a reference to how cranky people are on Monday
<flipsidecreation> I found the site yesterday and it did not look like the war zone that is today
<rick_h_> yay it works kinda
<brousch> rick_h_: Can I endorse you on linkedin for Firefox Extension skills now?
<rick_h_> brousch: no, never ever
 * brousch looks for 'PHP linting' among the skills
<rick_h_> heh
<rick_h_> ok, coffee shop time done. back to the house
<cmaloney> https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-mQ5oIMCDUoU/UoERaCFFDpI/AAAAAAAAZEo/kjbGw1kHzg8/w452-h426-no/10+11+2013+-+1.jpg
<cmaloney> for rick_h_ ^
<rick_h_> cmaloney: :P
<rick_h_> greg-g: ping
<rick_h_> booo, firefox extension won't load on mobile
<brousch> Get a real web browser!
<rick_h_> widox_: merged in the work you did and some tweaks and updated the readme/etc. I've published an alpha xpi and added it to the readme.
<rick_h_> greg-g: hit up the readme if you feel like almost having a bookie extension :) https://github.com/bookieio/bookie-firefox
<rick_h_> greg-g: saving a bookmark works once you've setup your preferences but barely and needs a lot of work still
<brousch> Is greg-g a mozilla user?
<cmaloney> I'm not sure I know why I sold this KLF album, but I'm glad I have it.
<cmaloney> http://www.last.fm/user/squeekyhoho
<rick_h_> brousch: umm yea
<cmaloney> Fuck, there's snow outside.
<brousch> I disbelieve
<brousch> It will melt before 5
<brousch> purdy http://regebro.github.io/hovercraft/#/step-1
<greg-g> brousch: iceweasel, I guess actually :)
<rick_h_> greg-g: give it a try if you get a few min. Will work on it some more tomorrow at MUG and probably Wed at CHC
<rick_h_> greg-g: so will update as we go
<greg-g> cool, probably tonight (in the middle of install ipkg on my synology nas)
<greg-g> aka: voiding my warranty
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> Installing Squeezebox?
<greg-g> I want screen
<greg-g> it has a squeezebox app...
<greg-g> like, a legit one
<cmaloney> :-D
<greg-g> what you linked to before
<greg-g> I want to be able to have a screen session
<greg-g> for rsync and such
<greg-g> ya know, data stuffsorz
<cmaloney> I didn't know it had a proper Squeezebox app
<cmaloney> thought it was something community supported.
<greg-g> ah, no, totally in the 'main'/default sources
<cmaloney> nice
<cmaloney> did you set that up yet?
<greg-g> I added one of the popular community repos, and man, just stuff for usenet downloarder
<greg-g> downloarders? heh
<cmaloney> That's a syllogism for dlwonload hoarders. ;)
<cmaloney> download even
<greg-g> no, not yet, top priority is still making backups of photos/videos
<cmaloney> God, I hate when I do stupid things that take all day to undo
<cmaloney> like, for instance, putting my dictionary init outside of my loop
<cmaloney> Thank goodness for testing.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-11-12
<shakes808> Good evening all
<rick_h_> party
<shakes808> had a question about the cloud computing stuff.  Anyone use it?
<waf> yep. people do.
<waf> :P
<shakes808> haha
<shakes808> do you people do?
<waf> i've used EC2 and azure
<shakes808> I am looking at Cloud 9
<waf> oh, the IDE? i've not much experience with that
<waf> i think i imported a github repo into it, that was kind of cool
<shakes808> I have been trying to find a community area for it.
<shakes808> Yeah, I am looking into that. I logged in via Github and trying to do some simple stuff, but isn't working for me
<shakes808> The cookie cutter "Hello World" stuff works
<shakes808> but when I tried to do some Python web stuff, it didn't seem to work.
<waf> like this sort of thing? http://support.cloud9ide.com/forums/20335288-Questions-Answers
<shakes808> unless, most case it is me, I did something wrong... but can't find any where to find people
<shakes808> I did see their forums
<shakes808> but there is supposed to be a way to have people in the Cloud 9 community come into your project and do a collabedit type thing
<waf> maybe try asking in #cloud9ide
<shakes808> I went there and tried a bunch of others, no one was there. Will try again.
<shakes808> .... :| maybe didn't load properly when I went there the first time.
<shakes808> ty
<shakes808> :D
<rick_h_> greg-g: ok, updated with ping support and loading existing bookmark data.
<rick_h_> widox_: ^^
<rick_h_> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/bookie/
<greg-g> rick_h_: sweet
<greg-g> just bmark.us'd the addon page :)
<rick_h_> lmorchard|away: come on, you know you want to check it out :P
<rick_h_> greg-g: very cool!
<rick_h_> greg-g: thank waf and widox_ for getting it going. I owe them beverages.
<waf> i think i was already paid in pizza, so you can give widox_ an extra :)
<rick_h_> lol
<greg-g> waf: widox_ thanks guys :)
<rick_h_> well, it's a start. I'm not sure how to sync/track bookmarks still.
<rick_h_> and no tag widget, just a textbox with spaces
<rick_h_> or delete, or ... *sigh*
<rick_h_> anyway, part on. Will hack some more at MUG tomorrow.
<rick_h_> party on that is
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> hmm, it stopped working :/
<jrwren> cloud?!?!?
<jrwren> zomg shakes808 asks about clouds?!?!
<jrwren> shakes808: yes, that is what we do :)
<cmaloney> http://openmetalcast.com/2013/11/11/open-metalcast-84-the-wave-of-the-voyage/
<rick_h_> greg-g: hmm, stopped working how?
<rick_h_> morning and all that
<cmaloney> Good morning
<jjesse> morning cmaloney
<jrwren> whew, that was a huge SEMJS
<jrwren> almost 90 attendees even with the snow.
<brousch> SE MI Javascript?
<jrwren> yes.
<brousch> lucky guess
<jrwren> formerly known as blazix was there :)
<rick_h_> jrwren: hah, cool
<rick_h_> everyone all sold on emberjs now?
<jrwren> i don't know.
<jrwren> i tried ember a while back. i tried to give it 2hrs or so of learning and there were just too many walls.
<jrwren> this cleared some things up.
<rick_h_> yea, it's a beast of a thing
<jrwren> someone said its less magic than angular, which I found surprising
<brousch> I thought angular is the answer
<rick_h_> yea, angular is all magic imo. Rails magic in JS land
<jrwren> i see.
<jrwren> so I know some guys who love angular
<jrwren> but I also know some guys who love ember.
<jrwren> i have no care either way.
<brousch> pick a side!\
<jrwren> never.
<rick_h_> hate everything!
<jrwren> never.
<jrwren> well, definitely
<jrwren> but, this is different. I do not work in that world.
<rick_h_> woot, wheels are out for delivery. Come on snow tires
<cmaloney> Heh
<cmaloney> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/Tr3BK6Z3XS5qX3YZaEm8/ <- huh huh huh huh
<rick_h_> long live the nook...I mean it's all over nook
<cmaloney> Actually it was a subscription to the Economist that I barely got 10 pages from the Table of Contents in any issue.
<cmaloney> Love the magazine, but have no time to sit and process it
<rick_h_> heh
<jrwren> rick_h_: you swap the tires yourself?
<rick_h_> jrwren: no, just had to order special wheels. Will take in friday to get things mounted, balanced, and I'm having htem store the summer tires for me
<jrwren> cool
<rick_h_> I like things nice and smooth and don't have the stuff to do wheel balancing/etc here
<rick_h_> now if I had a real shop..maybe
<jrwren> yeah, I wondered.
<jrwren> i guess and annual balance is a good idea.
<jrwren> if you did it at home, my next question was, do you have an impact wrench? :)
<rick_h_> well the touareg is really finicky with that. I'm actually nervous as I had issue when I got it new
<rick_h_> heh, no, thought about it, but not gotten one yet. With the trailer though I might get one next summer
<greg-g> rick_h_: when I clicked the icon on thebottom bar, nothing happened (whereas before it brought up the save dialog)
<greg-g> g'morning all
<rick_h_> greg-g: :( ok. hate to ask this but restart FF and it still does it?
 * rick_h_ makes a note to check error conditions, etc. 
<greg-g> gimme a minute, that's like restarting one's computer ;)
<rick_h_> greg-g: welcome alpha tester!
<greg-g> I love alpha testings
<greg-g> -s
<cmaloney> I'm pretty much coonvinced the VW is going to be almost 100% dealer-serviced.
<cmaloney> save for collision work.
<rick_h_> cmaloney: yea, well not for wheels!
<rick_h_> cmaloney: they gave me a heart attack when I tried to order wheels from them
<rick_h_> cmaloney: but agree with you. Not going to risk taking the thing some places that doesn't have lots of experience with them. They're just different enough
<greg-g> you should live somewhere other than Michigan, non-Michigan cars are known entities elsewhere ;)
<greg-g> (I kid! I miss Michigan soooo much)
<greg-g> or Minnesota, or Wisconsin, one of the great lakes states
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea, I felt special with the subaru until we'd go to VA and see them all over there
<greg-g> or just Ann Arbor, really :)
<rick_h_> :P
<greg-g> ugh, loud coffee shop is loud
<rick_h_> greg-g: :( peets was like that yesterday. Mad I forgot headphones
<cmaloney> greg-g: Yeah, well I wouldn't trust some of these grease-monkeys to know the difference between imperial and metric
<cmaloney> and try their damndest to do on-the-fly conversion
<cmaloney> aka strip the bolt to make it fit.
<greg-g> again, ann arbor :)
<cmaloney> Yeah, in Ann Arbor every mechanic has a masters in engineering
<cmaloney> :-P
<rick_h_> oooh, ouch
<cmaloney> (and they still can't do metric conversions. ;))
<greg-g> 'tis true, the job market sucks ;)
 * rick_h_ runs when my mechanic breaks out an HP calculator
<greg-g> TI4LIF!
<rick_h_> heh, just paid a bill and noticed it was 11/12/13
<greg-g> yep :) make a wish
<rick_h_> wahoo I use 8% more electricity than my neighbors
<rick_h_> thanks DTE, that's need to know info
<greg-g> shamming into conservation, usually works
<rick_h_> ah, I just excuse myself. I work from home, have a bunch of computer equipment, I'd guess my 8% neighborhood hit is less than an office and pay my bill :)
<greg-g> :)
<cmaloney> I fear for the guy that lives next to the neighborhood server room
<cmaloney> "You use .001% of the electricity as the guy down the street that thinks he's running Google from a stack of 486s"
<cmaloney> "you know, the guy who got the DEA to bust down his door because they thought he was growing weed."
<cmaloney> "They couldn't stop laughing when they saw the tower of liquid-cooled Packard Bell machines".
 * greg-g looks shifty-eyed
<cmaloney> greg-g: You live in California. They'd probably cite you for not using electricity to grow weed. ;)
<cmaloney> and then give you a citation for not growing it organically
<greg-g> one county up (Mendocino) and yeah, just about
<greg-g> it's where all the good weed comes from (so I'm told)
<cmaloney> cool story bro
<cmaloney> ;)
 * greg-g looks shifty-eyed again
<cmaloney> Just set up a server room and it'll be alright.
<cmaloney> "It's my hydroponic organic  beowulf cluster"
<greg-g> only turn it on when the feds come knocking? ('cuz the local guys don't care, given growing/possessing is legel here)
<greg-g> haha, yes
<waf> just got an unsolicited email from a recruiter titled "BOOM permanent developer position for you!!" asking for my resume as a microsoft word file.
<greg-g> haha
<waf> as i'm sure you suspect, i'm madly scrambling to convert my latex resume to docx.
<greg-g> is boom company or "BOOM!" onomatopiea
<waf> onomatopiea. it's a recruiting company with many different java developer opportunities.
<greg-g> heh
<cmaloney> I'm not sure I'd want to deal with a company that thinks the word "BOOM!" is a good thing for software development
<greg-g> oh man guys
<greg-g> so, if a chinese user edits a page on zh.wikipedia.org that ends in ".exe" the GFW badly proxies it and gives them an error
<greg-g> ie: they end up here: http://60.13.74.166:83/1Q2W3E4R5T6Y7U8I9O0P1Z2X3C4V5B/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:HTMLCODER.exe
<cmaloney> Wow
<greg-g> that ip isn't ours, that's the Hainan province ISP's ip
<greg-g> a chinese user can edit en.wikipedia.org urls that end in .exe though
<greg-g> bad GFW regex somewhere
<greg-g> the GFW wants to filter er, mitm, any .exe downloads, apparently
<cmaloney> I'm surprised there's a wikipedia page format that allows .exe
<greg-g> yeah, we're pretty lax
<greg-g> https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:TESTPAGE.exe
<cmaloney> That said the way Microsoft can turn just about any three letter extension into an executable it's probably better to just disallow extensions
<cmaloney> but that likely == breaky breaky
<cmaloney> Does it do the same for .pif?
<greg-g> they're just HTML pages, so the php sends the right mimetype to the user (html) not eg: exe
<greg-g> the apache server, whatever
<cmaloney> nope.
<greg-g> would work, apparenty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:TESTPAGE.pif
<cmaloney> .pif doesn't have the same page.
<greg-g> well, the account doesn't exist
<cmaloney> Right
<greg-g> you can register cmaloney.pif if you want :)
<greg-g> well, it'd be Cmaloney.pif (first letter upper case requirement :/ )
<cmaloney> This page has been deleted. The deletion and move log for the page are provided below for reference.
<cmaloney> 19:33, 12 November 2013 Nick (talk | contribs) deleted page User:TESTPAGE.exe (G2: Test page)
<greg-g> heh, yeah, not leaving around test pages I guess
<greg-g> deletionists
<greg-g> :)
<cmaloney> revisionist. ;)
<greg-g> wikipedians are ALL revisionists ;)
<greg-g> bbiab, lunch
<cmaloney> lunchionist
<jrwren> cmaloney: you hate over compression on recent audio releases, right?
<jcastro> cmaloney, heya
<jcastro> we have nbested categories now
<jcastro> just waiting for the domain now
<jrwren> cmaloney: give Celldweller - Birthright from Wish Upon A Blackstar a listen and tell me abou tit.
<jcastro> we'll probably go live in a week
<cmaloney> jrwren: Yeah, I'm not a fan of compression
<cmaloney> jcastro: orly? On Discourse?
<jcastro> ya
<cmaloney> jrwren: I'm actually thinking of re-buying Carcass' Swansong because it's now in a Full Dynamic Range edition
<cmaloney> http://earache.bandcamp.com/album/swansong-full-dynamic-range-edition
<jrwren> nice.
<cmaloney> Bought the Mp3s a while back, but it's a fucking great album that deserves some class-A treatment.
<cmaloney> jrwren: God, Klayton really lost his way
<cmaloney> Could also be Youtube compression, but yikes
<cmaloney> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UPCLR8-Aeo
<cmaloney> I'm kinda glad I didn't go overboard on the pre-order
<cmaloney> THing is it's not a bad song
<cmaloney> But all the power gets neutered
<jrwren> cmaloney: agree.  poor Klayton
<jrwren> yeah, i haven't listened to this album in a while but that track in particular the compression was insanely noticible
<jrwren> its like the producer didn't even listen to it.
<jrwren> its sad because I think it would be a lot better if done differently
<cmaloney> Did he produce it? He's been notorious for being an extreme DIY when it comes to his sound.
<jrwren> yes, I think he did.
<jrwren> he put out a whole making of bonus CD
<jrwren> it really focusses on 2 of the tracks.
<cmaloney> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wish_Upon_a_Blackstar#Personnel
<cmaloney> The Celldweller Detroit Mass Choir - additional vocals on "It Makes No Difference Who We Are"
<jrwren> what does that even mean?
<cmaloney> I think he got some locals together
<cmaloney> jcastro: http://ubuntu-discourse.org/category/local-teams/ubuntu-michigan <- Our Forum Link points to the proper discourse spot
<greg-g> what is this?
<cmaloney> It's a new forum.
<cmaloney> God, I'd love to know how I can fuck up posting podcasts. ;)
<cmaloney> (pretty well, apparently)
<jcastro> cmaloney, it's going to be discourse.ubuntu.com/blah
<jcastro> but we'll have rewrites
<jcastro> http://ubuntu-discourse.org/t/should-updates-to-subcategories-be-shown-in-the-latest-stream/1173
<jcastro> IMO we should have them fix this ^^^
<cmaloney> jcastro: OK, LMK when it changes and I'll update the link
<jcastro> yeah
<cmaloney> Funny enough, the last link for our forum was to the mailing list.
<cmaloney> also: Apparently feedburner will let you update other folks feeds.
<cmaloney> ie: I had a metal injection post that had the wrong episode
<cmaloney> but apparently I can "ping" it
<cmaloney> and update the feed, even though I don't own it.
<rick_h_> go waf go
<cmaloney> w00t!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-11-13
 * rick_h_ goes and cries in a corner https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/developers/docs/sdk/latest/modules/sdk/request.html#Methods
<rick_h_> widox: around?
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Not seeing what the problem is
<rick_h_> cmaloney: a LOT of missing request types
<rick_h_> for instance DELETE
<rick_h_> so just got through adding all this code to support delete and can't make the request now
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Ah, that's what I thought
<greg-g> w00t, I have ipkg (thus now screen) on the nas
<cmaloney> Wonder why they left that out
<cmaloney> greg-g: tmux. ;)
<cmaloney> (OK, had to be done)
<rick_h_> ugh, and 60 open pull requests, ugh
<rick_h_> and using bugzilla, gah
<cmaloney> Yeah, not a fan of bugzilla
<rick_h_> fork!
<rick_h_> LIES!
<cmaloney> heh
<rick_h_> ok, well sent a pull request back to the sdk...wish me luck
<cmaloney> Hopefully it doesn't langush behind the other 60
<rick_h_> heh, especially since I can't get tests to pass in trunk :/
<cmaloney> wee
<rick_h_> yea, gotta love failing tests in trunk
<rick_h_> morning, got a lovely welcome home. late at night get home and my wife's got the stuff all out of under the sink and towels everywhere
<brousch> All of your bacon grease clog the sink?
<rick_h_> heh, something causing the faucet to leak
<rick_h_> havent had time to check it out yet.
<jrwren> bummer
<rick_h_> waf: can you update the website if you get a bit of time today?
<rick_h_> reminder CHC tonight, back to the new Peets coffee.
<waf> sure, we're going to give peets a shot?
<waf> rick_h_: ^
<rick_h_> waf: yes, going there for tonight and we can chat about what we want to do from there
<waf> oh, um, reading fail. you just said we're meeting at peets, then I asked the question.
<waf> ok, updated
<rick_h_> waf: thanks, appreciate it
<rick_h_> woot, my firefox sdk changes got merged
<rick_h_> yay bookie extension taking firefox's sdk where no sdk has gone before lol
<trevlar> rick_h_: nice!
<greg-g> rick_h_: what was the change?
<greg-g> (and neat!)
<rick_h_> greg-g: adding support to the sdk's Request helper for DELETE calls
<rick_h_> greg-g: so the extension got the ability to delete bookmarks last night :)
<greg-g> oh, yay!
<rick_h_> greg-g: heh, so yea, our 4 super powerful lines and a test that's not a good test at all, but wtf it's how the rest of the request methods are tested so let's roll with it
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> don't rock the boat ;)
<brousch> rick_h_: Congrats!
<rick_h_> widox: you coming to CHC tonight? Would love to check out the local storage work and see how we can get that notification like we've got in chrome for the + or something
<jrwren> you didn't complete the rfc2616 http verbs?
<jrwren> they had GET HEAD POST PUT, you added DELETE, what about OPTIONS TRACE CONNECT ?
<rick_h_> jrwren: nope, I didn't think it'd get merged yet. I asked how to write better tests and actually run them since they're failing right now out of trunk
<rick_h_> jrwren: itch scratched :)
<jrwren> well played.
<jrwren> ty for making things better rick_h_
<rick_h_> tests still don't run :(
<jcastro> good lord rick_h_
<jcastro> $179 unlocked Moto G
<jcastro> that's just a gamechanger right there
<rick_h_> jcastro: yea, kind of crazy eh? 1.2Ghz cpu and 329dpi screen
<jcastro> I wonder if it's a step up from the N4
<rick_h_> jcastro: I think so, though I'm not sure on the camera
<rick_h_> they're bad enough in the 'super' phones
<rick_h_> jcastro: but I bet my could use that one without an issue. "insurance on your phone?" "umm no, I'll just buy a new one
<jcastro> http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/125090-motorola-moto-g-vs-nexus-4-what-s-the-difference
<jcastro> so it's not as nice
<jcastro> but for 179, who cares
<rick_h_> yea
<jcastro> If we could get ubuntu touch on there ... there's the dogfood
<rick_h_> true, but lack of ram I'd expect to suck
<rick_h_> the ram requirements for Touch is the biggest thing imo
<jcastro> yeah but they target the Galaxy Nexus with UT
<jcastro> therefore, theoretically ....
<rick_h_> jcastro: yea, but it's not as compelling.
<rick_h_> no convergance story without the ram
<jcastro> right
<jcastro> but tbh, that isn't going to be ready for a long time anyway
<rick_h_> I was hoping the 5 or the motox would have more ram
<rick_h_> true I guess, I'd be curious what the phone folks thing then
<rick_h_> I'd definitely get a G to dogfood/test on
<jcastro> still, the lines of your phone for 179
<jcastro> and the custom colors and stuff
<rick_h_> I've been thinknig of getting a 5 just for that, so a G would rock
<jcastro> it's the perfect jillphone
<jcastro> after she went through _2 nexus 4's_
<rick_h_> yep, perfect wife/parents phone
<jcastro> real android too, not some BS
<rick_h_> are they selling unlocked/etc like the dev edition motox?
<jcastro> yes
<jcastro> 179 is the unlocked price dude
<jcastro> no subsidy
<rick_h_> cool, hadn't seen what the 'buy from motorola/google play' story is yet
<rick_h_> cool, have jono go get that officially supported and we'll buy a half dozen for the MI folks lol
<jcastro> yeah no shit
<rick_h_> greg-g: did the extension go back to working for you? Also curious if it updated to 0.1a4
<greg-g> one sec in relevator
<rick_h_> greg-g: all good
<cmaloney> Afternoon
<greg-g> -r
<greg-g> rick_h_: on a3 right now, still nothing happening when I click the icon :/ (restarted fx)
<rick_h_> greg-g: ok, I wasn't sure if updates weren't happening because it's not been reviewed yet
<rick_h_> greg-g: orly ok. Good to know. Guess it's not error handling then. Wonder what's up.
<rick_h_> greg-g: if you get a sec I guess head to add-ons and remove it, then readd from https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/bookie/
<rick_h_> the settings will still be saved and wonder if it'll open or not for you
<rick_h_> if not will have to figure out how to get at logging from an installed setup
 * greg-g nods
<greg-g> in meeting,
<rick_h_> greg-g: np, let me know. I can't dupe here and do want to try to get things fixed while everyone is FF motiviated
<rick_h_> ok this is damn funny if true https://twitter.com/cblatts/status/400680833721581568
<rick_h_> heh, anyone got a spare mil laying around? https://www.sedo.com/search/searchresult.php4
<greg-g> rick_h_: which one?
<rick_h_> greg-g: av.com starts at 1M
<cmaloney> businÃ«ss.com is available
<cmaloney> They only want 10,000Euro for it
<cmaloney> You'll never have to worry about spam from anyone in the USA ever again.
<jrwren> anyone want to work on building/maintaining a private linux distro which runs on large scale embedded system hardware?
<jrwren> http://arbornetworks.jobs/ann-arbor-mi/os-unixlinux-developer/41391720/job/
<cmaloney> http://devopsreactions.tumblr.com/post/66665497570/how-it-feels-when-following-our-policies
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-11-14
<rick_h_> well, we do have a large table at the Peets
<trevlar> it was such a nice table...
<widox> to dead to make CHC tonigh - how did it work out at new Peets?
<waf> it did not. they close at 8 :(
<waf> we're at a barnes and noble right now
<jjesse> where is  the peets at?
<cmaloney> IT's where the old caribou location was (Normandy and Woodward)
<widox> ughh, really? that complicates things...
<cmaloney> Yeah, we're not in our happy place.
<cmaloney> Hello from my Raspberry pi. :)
<rick_h_> woot http://r.bmark.us/u/1b1db6211cf6e8
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> party
<jjesse> morning
<jcastro> cmaloney, have you heard "Heavy Metal Music" by Newsted?
<jjesse> apparently in downtown chiccgo this morning they are holding auditions for people to be extras etc for the next star wars movie
<jjesse> lots of crazies down here
<jcastro> hah
<jjesse> apparently a large number of them are from the Midwest Garrison?  http://www.midwestgarrison.com/
<cmaloney> jcastro: Not the entire album, no
<cmaloney> I've only heard a track or two
<cmaloney> Also apparently I'm a child of the 80s because I can listen to Upstairs at Eric's by Yaz without any problem. :)
<jcastro> I am listening to it now on spotify
<cmaloney> And?
<jcastro> it's decentish
<jcastro> kind of forgettable unfortunately
<cmaloney> Yeah. Kinda reminded me of the "Metallica" album
<cmaloney> so perhaps he was responsible for the direction they took in the 1990s
<rick_h_> crap, followed by scobalizer on twitter...now I'm afraid
<greg-g> yeah, that happened to me once, I felt like i must have done something wrong in life
<cmaloney> rick_h_: HOLYSHIT! MONETIZEBOOKIENOWFORVCFUNCINGLOLOL!!
<rick_h_> lol
<jrwren> its probably a fake account
<cmaloney> No, it's probably the real deal
<cmaloney> he works for Rackspace, and rick_h_ is interesting
<jrwren> he works for rackspace?
<jrwren> that just lowered my opinion of rackspace.
<rick_h_> scoble does yea
<rick_h_> "Startup Liason Officer"
<rick_h_> wtf that is
<cmaloney> Meh, he's a celebrity
<jrwren> a position for scoble
<cmaloney> Much like Paris Hilton is a celebrity
<jrwren> much like stroustrup is a celebrity
<jrwren> or linus for that matter
<jrwren> 'cept the later 2 actually do productive things.
<cmaloney> Yeah, one is insane and the other one writes a kernel. :)
<jrwren> lolz
<jrwren> have you seen C++13?
<jrwren> its wonderful!
<cmaloney> Actually, I like Bjarne, but he needs to step away from the keyboard.
<cmaloney> before someone else gets hurt
<jrwren> :(
<cmaloney> I can tell you that C++13 is ungoogleable
<jrwren> it is?
<cmaloney> Type "C++13"
<jrwren> so it is
<jrwren> its probably because its brand new.  most of it falls along side of C++11
<jrwren> http://bit.ly/17wr4h6
<cmaloney> Maybe I should take another look at C++ some time
<cmaloney> but ugh ugh ugh
<cmaloney> https://duckduckgo.com/?q=c%2B%2B13
<jrwren> yes, i noticed.
<jrwren> oh gosh, is it c++14 ?
<jrwren> hahaha, I had wrong name.
<jrwren> https://duckduckgo.com/?q=c%2B%2B14
<jrwren> or c++1y
<rick_h_> https://onlycoin.com is kind of cool
<jcastro> that looks sweet
<rick_h_> hmm, with pgsql on rds I wonder if I could run bookie on one web front end and rds + elasticache for celery
<brousch> rds?
<rick_h_> 'relational data store' or mysql as a service
<jrwren> you COUld, but it woudl be $$$$
<jrwren> now its mysql or postgresql or mssql or oracle as a service.
<cmaloney> $55 is a lot of money for a problem that I'm not sure I have. ;)
<cmaloney> now if they could do something about those fucking loyalty cards.
<cmaloney> Oh wait. it does that.
<cmaloney> Now I'm interested.
<brousch> What would I do with all of the new wallet space?
<cmaloney> Heck, you wouldn't need a wallet
<cmaloney> just the Coin, your driver's license, and the no-money vacuum. ;)
<rick_h_> hmm, yea $60 for a small pgsql instance. definitely more than my small instance
<cmaloney> Apparently Amazon thinks people are made of money. ;)
<cmaloney> $3K Windows computers, $60 databases
<greg-g> another fun day in the WMF operations center
<rick_h_> the automated backup and such is cool
<rick_h_> greg-g: at least it's not friday...yet
<greg-g> soooo close
<greg-g> this time not our fault
<greg-g> not ops nor devs
<cmaloney> greg-g: Have you ever seen code launch over at WMF?
<cmaloney> ;)
<greg-g> (extrapolate what you will from that)
<cmaloney> VENDOR!
<greg-g> nope
<greg-g> though, we had that issue last week
<cmaloney> Management?
<greg-g> stupid transit provider didn't give us all the bandwidth we asked for, capp'd us at half what we wanted.
<greg-g> nope
<cmaloney> OH that's lovely.
<cmaloney> That's the sort of thing that you can't plan for that will really ruin your day.
<greg-g> yeah, though, we didn't have smoke tests in place to catch that, which we should have
<rick_h_> well, if you go with areserved instance you can get a small pgsql box to $16/mo. That's not bad
<greg-g> luckily it was for the new caching dc, which we don't *need* in place
 * rick_h_ notes he needs to go back and re-reserve his ec2 instances to get those prices back down
<jrwren> rick_h_: ever stand up your own sentry server?
<rick_h_> jrwren: I tinkered with it once. I ended up using the small $9/mo version
<rick_h_> jrwren: there's another service like that out there that's pyramid vs django
 * rick_h_ is trying to recall
<rick_h_> jrwren: https://errormator.com/
<jrwren> would make a good charm: http://sentry.readthedocs.org/en/latest/quickstart/index.html#install-sentry
<jrwren> any tcpdump filter expression knowledgable people can help me? http://paste.mitechie.com/show/1077/
<tony-smlr> ok
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-11-15
<tony-smlr> SMLR is Live now! Video http://youtu.be/d5IDFgY30JU - Audio http://live.smlr.us:8000/streaming
<cmaloney> Evening
<cmaloney> Good morniing
<rick_h_> morn
<rick_h_> wow, the meijer cafe space is kind of busier than I expected for a friday morning
<cmaloney> Figure just abot every employee there is going to use it
<cmaloney> And yeah, there were always people at the Meijer cafe when I worked there.
<rick_h_> my work is suffering, I don't have that coffee shop hacker hipster feeling
<rick_h_> and this is about the worst 'latte' I've ever had. Thanks Tim Hortons built-in-mini-cafe
<widox> haha
<widox> rick_h_: why are you working from Meijer?
<rick_h_> widox: it's next to the belle tire putting on my snow tires and has breakfast-ables
<widox> ahh
<rick_h_> yea, Vicky is getting all ready to play in the now. Bring it on!
<rick_h_> first time putting real winter tires on a vehicle since an old GF had snow tires on a mustang
<rick_h_> the subaru's always just did really well in really good tires
<rick_h_> never needed snow specific ones
<widox> I've never changed to winter tires before
<widox> though, I also avoid driving in general :)
<rick_h_> well, this car is pretty darn heavy and likes to do some sliding based on my experience at the end of last winter
<rick_h_> they put amazingly crap tires on it from the factory
<rick_h_> used them from Feb until now, but they'll never see the road under my vehicle again
<widox> how kind of them
<rick_h_> but I also like to go play in the snow. It's a great "Boss *cough* *cough* I need to go lie down for a bit"
<rick_h_> and then find the unplowed roads
<cmaloney> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/1078/
<cmaloney> ^- Sad to say I probably wouldn't notice.
<greg-g> rick_h_: that's one of the biggest things I miss in CA: unplowed roads
<cmaloney> Filled out the Peet's survey asking them to keep their location open longer.
<cmaloney> Also: pissing in wind
<rick_h_> lol
<cmaloney> http://www.thinkgeek.com/product/14d6/
<jrwren> i want to untar an ubuntu cloudimg and chroot to it. possible? thoughts?
<cmaloney> https://ting.com/blog/time-to-bring-your-nexus-5-to-ting/
<jrwren> coding wicked shit, drinking beer, listening to mc plus+, does life get better?  yes, but not often.
<greg-g> what's the wicked shit?
<jrwren> integrating our divergent ubuntu into our build server which normally only deals in our internal linux variant
<jrwren> i'm making our build server work with ubuntu-cloudimg
<jrwren> I SHALL HAVE BUilD AND TESTS!!!
<greg-g> good things :)
<jrwren> if my systems team finds out, they may be angry.
<greg-g> reminds me of this article I saw today: https://research.microsoft.com/en-us/people/mickens/thenightwatch.pdf  jrwren
<jrwren> imma be like the electric six. I shall exterminate everything around me that restricts me from being the master. (in code)
<greg-g> heh
<rick_h_> cmaloney: ping, looks like the fam is hitting the zoo tomorrow so going to coffee-shop tomorrow. Can you shoot me a couple of places I should check out?
<rick_h_> widox: bored? extension hacking time tomorrow? :)
<greg-g> rick_h_: how do you get out of/not want to go to those things?
<rick_h_> greg-g: it took some time.
<rick_h_> The fact that there's a lot of holiday in-law time going on helps my case
<greg-g> ahhh
<rick_h_> but yea, they care about their grandson, it's better for everyone if I get to skip every other event that's not full on required family time
<greg-g> man, having family near by....
<greg-g> we ef'd that up
<rick_h_> heh, it's over rated
<rick_h_> It comes in handy twice a year
<greg-g> but my mom is soooo good with Rowan
<rick_h_> yea, I mean for other families we're jealous
<rick_h_> people that have parents that takes the kids for romatic weekend get-a-ways and such
<greg-g> oh man, need that...
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-11-16
<derekv> anyone know if there is a general non-dbms-specific database channel?
<widox> rick_h_: hm, possibly. when and where?
<rick_h_> widox: depends on what cmaloney says
<rick_h_> widox: going to try to visit a couple of coffee shops in the RO/birmingham area as potential places for CHC
<rick_h_> derekv: what's up?
<derekv> here's what i got, i'd preffer a simple schema, eg, some users, some items owned by that user, some metadata for those items (eg, tags), and some log of events pertaining to those items
<derekv> i'm pretty sql vs nosql agnostic on this one
<derekv> but i'd like something which can scale out easily in the future
<derekv> perfect transational consistancy is probably not super important
<rick_h_> I'm a believer in "Use pgsql until there's a good reason not to" person
<widox> rick_h_: ah, I think Birmingham pretty much sucks for cofeeshops -- I know there is a Starbucks there ...
<rick_h_> so maybe my input isn't the best on this one
<rick_h_> widox: yea, cmaloney said he had a couple of 'forgotten' places to check out
<rick_h_> widox: so curious what these places are
<derekv> the only downside of pgsql is that i couldn't just easily scale it out afaik
<rick_h_> pgsql scales a LOOOONG way out
<widox> there is an independant one, but I think it closes real early like. never actually gone there
<rick_h_> it's a rare thing for most places to outgrow it imo
<widox> heh, my company outgrew it
<derekv> I thought it scaled a long way up?
<widox> well, supposedly
<derekv> but not out
<rick_h_> widox: oic, out vs up you mean? well you can out with r/o slaves and such
<rick_h_> it doesn't do master-mater yet, but I think that's rare
<derekv> without changing the schema for shards or something... forgive me i'm a newbie regarding this stuff
<rick_h_> widox: really? I'd be curious to see what they were doing that they outgrew it
<widox> rick_h_: raping databases
<widox> rick_h_: don't worry, we solved it with ORACLE POWER
<derekv> lol
<rick_h_> widox: lol, ok.
 * widox weeps
<rick_h_> wow, ok.
<rick_h_> derekv: scaling out in a read-only sense is easy. It's a matter of caching, replicating to servers in different DCs, etc. Writes is harder, but even writes can scale up a long way ime
<derekv> so, i could make 4 tables in pgsql and i bet it'd handle a whole lot of bandwidth but, since I don't think I need ACID on the bulk of writes I wondered if there wasn't something i could choose early on to make scaling easier later if needed
<rick_h_> derekv: the issue is that you're talking metadata/logging which lends itself to random sql-ish queries
<rick_h_> and making arbitrary queries up on nosql situations is expensive and doesn't scale well
<rick_h_> that's why there's crap like map/reduce and hadoop to basically crawl data and build an index before you can run your query so it won't run forevery locking things all the while
<widox> rsync'ing sqlite dbs?
<rick_h_> I mean, didn't mongo just recently get edit locks vs 'I'm looking at it' locks?
<widox> hm, no bites on that eh
<rick_h_> widox: :P
<derekv> I have no idea what mongo recently got.  I couldn't tell you the difference between mongo , couch, cassandra, riak, ...
<rick_h_> derekv: I mean instagram was postgres on ubuntu on ec2
<rick_h_> not sure if it still is in FB or what
<rick_h_> heh, ok. Mongodb, the old scool kid. Couch doesn't scale up well but the sync and html api is awesome for small apps, cassandra is the pretty lady these days. Go cluster go. http://docs.basho.com/riak/1.2.0/references/appendices/comparisons/Riak-Compared-to-Cassandra/
<rick_h_> I hate mongodb with a burning bashing, I'd check out cassandra if I needed it and riak doesn't have the network of folks I know to trust it for anything long term atm
<rick_h_> but, all that is after I've grown the app to work for years on pgsql and know what my scaling needs are if/when it comes time to replace it
<derekv> I'm certainly not trying to say I can't use pgsql and make it work, just curious if there was some shiny thing that could be better and I could tell everyone about how I was using it and feel really cool at social gatherings etc
<rick_h_> and with the json support, materialized views, server side functions for things that are required to be super fast, it's got  the stuff you need.
<rick_h_> heh, well depends on your circle then :P
<derekv> lol
<rick_h_> and I'll make fun of whatever circle it is because they won't know enough technically to justify their choice. :)
<rick_h_> https://www.braintreepayments.com/braintrust/scaling-postgresql-at-braintree-four-years-of-evolution looks like a great read
<derekv> checking it ou
<derekv> oh redis, that was one i was trying to think of the name of the other day
<rick_h_> redis == memcache
<rick_h_> redis is great for queues, caching, etc.
<rick_h_> I use redis for bookie queue processing, the r.bmark.us data, and it's great as long as the data can fit in memory
<rick_h_> derekv: like that article, pgsql is great for the primary store of the app and as you find things you bring in other stuff for specific uses
<derekv> hmm
<rick_h_> sourceforge, at one time, used mongodb for a single materialized view engine for mysql
<rick_h_> so you visited a project page and the data came from mongodb, but the data lived in a series of tables back on mysql that any edit ot the project caused a rebuild of the mongodb document
<derekv> thats the kind of complexity, i'm trying to avoid
<rick_h_> welcome to real scaling
<rick_h_> scaling isn't "Use X and all your problems are solved"
<rick_h_> even oracle :P
<widox> oracle loves all
 * rick_h_ is afraid of oracle
<derekv> so what about the log table, i'll write to it but not really edit it or care if nodes are not in perfect sync
<rick_h_> I remember using the free oracle sql thing for my college db class. That was 1GB on my 20GB hard drive
<widox> especially living on a box with 1TB of RAM, yummy
<rick_h_> derekv: right but you'll want to query it.
<rick_h_> wow, 1TB of memory? postgresql didn't perform well on that same hardware?
<rick_h_> I mean the whole DB must live just in pure memroy
<derekv> hmm it'd still probably want to sync writes to the spinny disks, if it had them
<derekv> so write transations would still have to be limited by IO
<derekv> regardless of dbms
<widox> rick_h_: PS was switched out before we got to this level
<widox> but, we have ~20TB of data in there
<rick_h_> widox: wow, ok. Remind me to get more info on what you guys are doing. I missed a few levels of stuff it looks like
<widox> though, we kinda use the db as an application server -- in that a shit ton of biz logic resides in functions/procs/packages and such
<widox> it actually is a giant butt hurt
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> derekv: do what you want, but if you're asking for real advice/questions it's a can of 'right tool for the job' and unless you understand the tool it's hard to use it well
 * rick_h_ puts away cranky old greybeard outfit and goes back to cleaning up the dishes. 
<rick_h_> widox: I'll ping when I hear from cmaloney
<derekv> rick_h_: I appricate your advice
<derekv> especially that I could use multiple technologies
<rick_h_> derekv: I'm part bitter. I've been handed work projects on mongodb that are on mongodb for NO good reason and the lack of good tools for migrations, etc are nuts
<rick_h_> derekv: mongodb, for instance, isn't really data safe until you've got a few machines at least. Most nosql require 3+N instances to be safe
<derekv> i'm just starting out and, probably i'll prototype this thing in whatever looks easiest to prototype it in (likely something traditional like pgsql)...
<rick_h_> derekv: so take all that with a grain of salt, but a nugget of experience as well
<widox> rick_h_: k
<derekv> rick_h_: good to know... i'd like to scale from 1 to N  not 3 to N
<rick_h_> unless you go oracle then you scale by how much income you can fork over :P
<derekv> I guess I feel like, relational, ACID databases are awesome for that need them, but what if you don't need that level of transational consistancy? is there something simpler to use in that case?
<derekv> yea i'd like to start with "free" since I don't even have an income model figured out yet
<rick_h_> derekv: the thing is that all the new stuff is young, missing tooling, still finding niches, etc. And they've all grown out of scaling past specific issues in ACID/sql
<rick_h_> so you have to figure out which one is the right one to solve the issue in RDS you're going to hit
<rick_h_> if you don't need all that I'd say couchdb is really cool, easy, fun to work with
<rick_h_> but it's not for large scale, so while it's great for prototyping and smallish apps it sounds like you're already going well past that
<widox> yeah, I'd say. going relational is pretty damn fast, given the precieved overhead of consistancy and what-not -- they have good tools to let you know what can be tweaked
<derekv> yep I need to read up.  the users table seems like a classic rdms use case, the log and items table (basiclly a higher level log) are the interesting bits
<derekv> i suppose, my app should shard really well
<derekv> i mean, an item pertains to a user, log events pertain to items, metadata pertains to items
<rick_h_> don't forget you can shard by date and such as well
<rick_h_> at traffic engine we did request logging and aggregateing on pgsql partitioned tables by month which tends to line up with query usage
<widox> heh, TE
<widox> we partition as well. works pretty well
<derekv> if only, i know how to calculate the cost of operating a machine to support X number of users so I could predict when i'd have to actually start thinking about scaling
<derekv> if only, diatomic wasn't a closed source jvm frankenstien
<derekv> datomic
<derekv> asdfart
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Sorry, was AFK for a bit
<cmaloney> We're taking Pixel to the vet from 11:30am-12:30pm, so if you wanted to meet up we could do that
<cmaloney> When are they heading to the zoo?
<derekv> i need to just prototype it in the easiest thing because lets be honest i have no idea the requirements yet
<derekv> or sit and think for a year like rich hickey
<rick_h_> cmaloney: think they're heading down around 10am ish
<rick_h_> cmaloney: so figured I'd go down, hit up a place, get some lunch, hit up a second place and head back in the afternoon
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Ah OK.
<rick_h_> derekv: smart move :)
<cmaloney> Hrum.
<rick_h_> derekv: there's a reason bookie dev/default install is sqlite
<cmaloney> If you wanted to meet up for lunch we might be able to do something together if you're interested.
<rick_h_> cmaloney: coolio
<rick_h_> cmaloney: can you shoot me a couple of places you were thinking and why don't you ping when you're done with the vet and we can meet up for lunchables
<cmaloney> But yeah, Pixel appt. is a fixed point in time
<cmaloney> kk
<rick_h_> cmaloney: right, and my free time is going to be fixed. If only were were single without any responsibilities :)
<cmaloney> yeah, no kidding
<cmaloney> OK, list sent.
<cmaloney> Will text when Pixel's appt is done
<cmaloney> (fixed point in time is a Doctor Who reference. ;) )
<rick_h_> cmaloney: ah, that buzzed over my head
<cmaloney> Yeah, it's a non-changing event in time
<cmaloney> which is shorthand for "we can't just wave this one away"
<rick_h_> cmaloney: coolio, got email. Thanks
<cmaloney> np
<derekv> man sound like trying to upgrade your car to a truck while drift racing
<derekv> i know what i want... one database has everything of interest to real time operation of app, and a log which is stored in possibly a different place or technology which can be used for any offline anaylsis or migration i might want to do
<rick_h_> widox: so going to try to find "The Grumpy Barista" in royal oak. Google maps doesn't know about it, but a google search pops up an address in yelp/4square
<rick_h_> widox: will try to get down there 10-10:30am
<widox> rick_h_: wah?! gmaps doesn't know about it
<rick_h_> widox: yea, confusing.
<widox> according to street view, its no coffee shop
<rick_h_> so https://foursquare.com/v/the-grumpy-barista/4bf2c5576ba2b713cf078977 it looks like it's at the same address as the cocao cafe
<rick_h_> widox: hmm, so yea street view has it a small corner place there at the cafe
<rick_h_> widox: I don't think that'll work so plan B
<derekv> https://www.fpcomplete.com
<widox> ah, "3 check-ins in the last 60 days" could be promising then
<derekv> your going to check it out?
<rick_h_> no, it looks tiny on streetview. Trying to find the next place on street view. Cafe Du Marquis
<rick_h_> and can't seem to find that one
<derekv> welp
<widox> rick_h_:  haha yelp reviewer "I guess the hookah smell is a bit strong and the hippie vibe clashes a bit with the house music, but it's sweet and cozy"
<widox> for cafe du marquis
<derekv> i have no business model but here goes "launching a startup on haskell"
<rick_h_> widox: yea, stopping that one
<derekv> at least i can get a cool talk out of it maybe
<rick_h_> derekv: hah, awesome
<derekv> thouh i think someone already did that talk
<derekv> there was this coffee place with hookas in RO that closed years ago
<derekv> it was huge.  they served cake in huge slices.  coffee there was horrible.
<widox> hm, maybe their hookah sales were better then coffee sales
<widox> rick_h_: are you hating on
<widox> Bean and Leaf
<widox> ?
<rick_h_> widox: yea, it's on the list. Was just looking it up
<widox> why newline, I dunno. paste fail
<rick_h_> it seems a bit out of the way, rochester?
<widox> its got small tables -- but there are some bigger guys in the back
<widox> no, downtown RO
<widox> 106 S Main St
<widox> http://www.mybeanandleaf.com/
<widox> hah, I guess they do have a Rochester location
 * rick_h_ looks for another one 
<rick_h_> widox: ok, bean and leaf it is!
<widox> rick_h_: ok, ~10:30 ?
<rick_h_> widox: yep
<widox> rick_h_: k. I'll see ya there then
<derekv> in case anyone was thinking otherwise, seems like actually there's no shortage of web frameworks in haskell
<rick_h_> derekv: heh yea I looked at a couple when I was trying to pick up haskell
<derekv> I was thinking of making a strictly json API (possibly with accept html but like no time on aesthetics), and a seperate javascript client
<derekv> so the nice looking dynamic site is hosted possibly eslewhere and is a different codebase/project
<derekv> https://bmark.us/redirect/c1d42b8e57e967
<cmaloney> I think you're think of Brazil
<cmaloney> That was the first coffee shop I'd ever been to
<cmaloney> I think it's where Mr. B's is.
<rick_h_> derekv: that's kind of how bookie has been for a while. html is client side driven over the api
<rick_h_> I'll say that while it's been good experience and helped the api, if I had to do it again I'd split it up a bit and do more server side rendering.
<derekv> finding some good urls
<derekv> domain names rather
<derekv> virthualenv [sic]
<derekv> should do some sort of alias git --reset hard -> git stash save
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h_> morning
<jrwren> morning
<rick_h_> woot, bean and leaf with the mifi power
<rick_h_> http://www.speedtest.net/result/3105158479.png
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Wow.
<cmaloney> That's some serious speed there.
<cmaloney> I would love to have that upload speed.
<cmaloney> OK, time to bundle a cat.
<rick_h_> cmaloney: yea, so an almond milk latte is kind of crap
<jrwren> i'd show my speedtest results, but i'm on wifi, its the limiting factor for me :(
<jrwren> http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/3105202152  -- wifi
<jrwren> I shall run a wired one later today, it will probably show 60mbit down :)
<jrwren> even still, that is some FAST LTE rick_h_
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, faster on mifi than my at home, 10x on the upload :/
<cmaloney> rick_h_: yeah, I don't like almond milk much
<cmaloney> tastes strange
<jrwren> what is the command to install build deps?
<jrwren> dpkg-checkbuilddeps complains, i swear there was a command to install build deps
<rick_h_> greg-g: pushing up 0.1a5 with a fix for that hangup I think and icon status support. Make sure to go into preferences and do a "Sync" button press.
<rick_h_> hmmm, not showing it in https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/bookie/ yet :/
<rick_h_> not sure if https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/developers/addon/bookie/versions/1500376 works for you or not
<rick_h_> widox: ^^
<rick_h_> there we go, just took a few min
<greg-g> ah, as I was requesting my password (forgot that one)
<greg-g> :)
<rick_h_> woot, working here
<rick_h_> so it'll show the + on pages you've bookmarked, green for success, red for error, etc
<rick_h_> looks like it'll take 2-4wks to get reviewed so not expecting auto updating to work until then
<greg-g> rick_h_: yay!
<greg-g> works
<rick_h_> woot
<greg-g> thanks man!
<rick_h_> greg-g: np, thanks for testing. More work to go, but widox has been going crazy with it and it's approaching usable :)
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> cmaloney: ever run into this issue on your squeezebox? it seems to have indexed it ok (shows up in interface), just wondering if I should be worried otherwise :)
<greg-g> oh, link...
<greg-g> cmaloney: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.music.equipment.slimdevices.squeezecenter/41459
 * greg-g is testing before he buys
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-11-17
<cmaloney> greg-g: Looking
<cmaloney> greg-g: Not sure what the worry is
<cmaloney> That said, I've never used itunes to index my music.
<greg-g> so, no itunes here, just the same error message
<greg-g> anywho, not gonna worry
<cmaloney> Yeah, I wouldn't worry about it
<cmaloney> if it was on some purchased music then it may be something they forgot to encode
<cmaloney> Worst case musicbrainz Picard would fix it.
<cmaloney> How are you liking the DB so far?
<cmaloney> SB, rather
<greg-g> cmaloney: haven't gotten one yet :)
<greg-g> cmaloney: just found this on craigslist: https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/ele/4184360490.html
<cmaloney> That's the one to get, but that person is high
<cmaloney> Problem is they aren't making them anymore.
<greg-g> saw another posting, in the city, for $400 :/
<cmaloney> Basically they're trying to get you to pay their sunk cost.
<greg-g> yeah
<cmaloney> I think it's a great player, but try haggling to $300
<cmaloney> and even that's a little high but honestly it's a great playet.
<cmaloney> playet.
<cmaloney> player.
<greg-g> :)
<cmaloney> I'd also get the radio as well
<greg-g> "the radio"?
<cmaloney> $99 is a great price on that radio
<cmaloney> http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-UE-Smart-Radio-Black/dp/B008X1BV9M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1384650933&sr=8-1&keywords=UE+radio
<cmaloney> Same OS as the touch, Includes a speaker, but doesn't have RCA jacks
<cmaloney> and can apparently be upgraded to the Squeezebox OS.
<cmaloney> Has a headphone jack
<greg-g> hrm
<cmaloney> The Radio is great if you have TOSlink.
<cmaloney> Er, the Touch
<greg-g> ahhh
<cmaloney> http://www.geeky-gadgets.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/logitech-squeezebox-touch_3.jpg\
<cmaloney> That's the back ports
<cmaloney> It also can take a SD card
<cmaloney> and can act as a basic server
<cmaloney> but honestly I haven't tried it.
<cmaloney> http://www.linuxjournaldigital.com/linuxjournal/201209?pg=73#article_id=194890
<greg-g> too. many. options.
<greg-g> :)
<cmaloney> Luckily someone wrote an article for Linux Journal about it. :)
<cmaloney> http://www.linuxjournaldigital.com/linuxjournal/201209?pg=73#pg71 rather
<greg-g> hah!
<cmaloney> Funny enough, when that article dropped Logitech discontinued the line.
<greg-g> the Craig Maloney effect.
<greg-g> :)
<cmaloney> Yep
<cmaloney> I advocate something and it turns to dust.
<greg-g> feels like my life ;)
<greg-g> the [GC]r[aie]g effect
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> Poor Graig
<greg-g> hehe
<greg-g> bbiab
<cmaloney> kk
<jrwren> i could buy quite a few iphone speaker docs for $400 :)
<gamerchick02_> finally. i found an irc client that works on my chromebook
<cmaloney> Our launchpad name was changed to ubuntu-us-mi
<cmaloney> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-us-mi
<cmaloney> Just in case someone is looking for it.
<gamerchick02_> cool thanks for letting us know
<gamerchick02_> ugh tired. i'm going to bed
<gamerchick02_> see everyone tomorrow
<cmaloney> Have a good night!
<rick_h_> cmaloney: derekv ColonelPanic001 lmorchard|away mulka smoser waf trevlar widox https://plus.google.com/116120911388966791792/posts/NojQ7KtHZqF
<rick_h_> sorry to keep changing it on your waf, but if you get time to update the site I'd appreciate it. Make sure to grab the royal oak addr vs rochester
<waf> you're doing all the hard work, updating a website is easy :)
<rick_h_> thanks waf
<greg-g> cmaloney: gah, I just realized the only squeezeboxes available that have audio out are $600+. wtf
<greg-g> well, the duet is only $430, but it doesn't have any speakers of its own
<greg-g> I hate the world of consumer electronics
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> Don't get the Duet. It's got a lot of problems.
<cmaloney> greg-g: ^^
<cmaloney> I purposely didn't meniton it in my article because it was apparently a buggy mess from the start
<cmaloney> It needs the remote, and the remote's batteries don't last terribly long
<cmaloney> Apparently they bought it. We're re-verified until 2015. :)
<rick_h_> cmaloney: heh, well cool I guess
<cmaloney> yeah. Apparently we're rocking hard.
<rick_h_> kinda feeling fraud-like
<cmaloney> Which leads me to believe there's some serious work ahead for the council
<rick_h_> http://r.bmark.us/u/883c8f6ec96086 :)
<cmaloney> rick_h_: *cough*
<cmaloney> (tht was re: the fraud remark)
<cmaloney> Yeah, if JoDee could stand to be in the same room with me I'd be using my Model M
<cmaloney> Hell, if I could stand to be in the same room with me
<cmaloney> Although I'd miss the *Super* key. ;)
<rick_h_> yea, why you need a unicomp instead
<cmaloney> And I have the old 5 pin DIN connector
<cmaloney> so I'd need an adapter soup to get it to work
<cmaloney> John's Unicomp is fucking LOUD. :)
<cmaloney> I'd love to get my mits on one of those CODE keyboards to give a whirl.
<cmaloney> I love the Leopold, but i think their quality control isn't so grat
<cmaloney> great, even
<cmaloney> my home keyboard has a burned out LED
<cmaloney> and I had to replace that one keyboard because it was acting weird
<cmaloney> http://pckeyboard.com/page/PC122/UB40B5A
<cmaloney> There we go.
<cmaloney> That'll look perfect with my 3270 emulator.
<cmaloney> Interesting. How come I can't find one with the nipple on it?
<cmaloney> Are we having fun yet. :)
<rick_h_> party
<rick_h_> the mall is already beyond my patience level and it's not even Dec :/
<cmaloney> Which one did you head to? SOmmerset?
<gamerchick02> cmaloney, are you talking to me?
<rick_h_> no, great lakes crossing
<gamerchick02> ooops sorry
<gamerchick02> rick_h_ you were in my neck of the woods!
<rick_h_> gamerchick02: heh I live in these neck of the woods :)
<gamerchick02> howdy neighbor!
<rick_h_> wow, https://twitter.com/AnthonyQuintano/timelines/402199002927476736 is crazy
<gamerchick02> i'm over by Walton and Squirrel!
<gamerchick02> damn
<cmaloney> Wow
<jrwren> i found a 16GB sandisk tiny cruiser, so yeah, fun!
<jrwren> you live at Oakland University?
<gamerchick02> jwren are you talking to me? no, i live in Auburn Hills Apartments.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-11-10
<cmaloney> http://www.reddit.com/r/webdev/comments/2ltd53/browserstack_is_shutting_down/
<cmaloney> https://neurotech.bandcamp.com/ <- jrwren
<rick_h_> ouch! on browserstack
<brousch> neurotech is awesome
<brousch> GiveCamp went really well
<brousch> We took the Django-admin based case management system from the previous 2 years and gave it a bootstrap theme, along with other enhancements
<rick_h_> morning
<mrgoodcat> morning to you too
<mrgoodcat> wow that browserstack email is pretty damning
<rick_h_> heh, hackers hold no punches
<mrgoodcat> congratulations on their sincerity in their apology at least
<mrgoodcat> any plan9 fans here?
<jrwren> nope.
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: I never quite understood Plan 9
<mrgoodcat> ok fair enough
<cmaloney> it seemed like it might have been good but never seemed to jump to the practical side of the fence
<mrgoodcat> no it never really did
<jrwren> because it wasn't good.
<cmaloney> brousch: That's awesome.
<cmaloney> Well, Unix was nice because it was extremely simple to teach and understand
<cmaloney> and was highly practical
<cmaloney> Plan 9 seemed like the antithesis of that
<cmaloney> http://plan9.bell-labs.com/plan9/about.html
<cmaloney> That about page tells me nothing about why I'd want to use it.
<cmaloney> Also the licensing was a bit of a turn-off
<cmaloney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7ZELOUIyvw
<cmaloney> Apparently Plan 9 runs on Raspberry Pi.
<jrwren> cmaloney: it was academic. The fact that it left academia is telling of its success.
<cmaloney> How so?
<jrwren> cmaloney: That something designed and built purely for academic reasons had huge success beyond its academic realm.
<jrwren> cmaloney: other thing which come to mind that full under this category: WWW
<jrwren> whoa!!! only $20
<jrwren> http://gizmodo.com/the-new-raspberry-pi-smaller-and-somehow-cheaper-1656737992?utm_campaign=socialflow_gizmodo_twitter&utm_source=gizmodo_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow
<mrgoodcat> the only reason i brought up plan9 is I stumbled on this and was wondering what the advantages of plan9 are http://www.glendix.org/
<jrwren> plan9's primary tenant was "everything is a file" which meant things like hardware and network resources too.
<mrgoodcat> iirc they also pioneered full-history filesystems too though
<jrwren> so I read the first sentence describing that glendix, and I think "it already has the things from plan9 where it makes sense"
<mrgoodcat> and are the first/one of the first operating systems with full native support for unicode
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: did they? I though VMS was older than plan9?
<cmaloney> VMS had revisions baked into the filesystem
<cmaloney> though it was pretty inelegant.
<cmaloney> And most folks turned that shit off. :)
<jrwren> cmaloney: right.
<jrwren> i'd have thought BeOS had the utf8 support a year earlier :)
<cmaloney> I think Plan9 claims a lot of innovations simply because it likely sat on a lab drive for a while. :)
<cmaloney> Not sure when it started development
<jrwren> guess not. beos is younger than I thought.
<jrwren> cmaloney: http://plan9.bell-labs.com/plan9/about.html
<cmaloney> Yeah, BeOS was circa Steve Jobs leaving Apple
<jrwren> i remember looking at it in '96 or '97
<cmaloney> and BeOS ended circa Steve Jobs returning to Apple. :)
<cmaloney> Actually BeOS wasn't as tied to Apple hardware as I remembered.
<cmaloney> http://hemingwrite.com/ <- This looks pretty cool
<cmaloney> though I'm sure it will retail for $WAYTOOMUCH
<cmaloney> Though I have a solution for distraction-free writing
<cmaloney> http://www2.purplecow.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/wordperfect-51-dos.png
<brousch> I cannot write without the Internet to look stuff up
<cmaloney> Funny thing is it looks to me like the old Tandy Model 100
<cmaloney> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRS-80_Model_100
<cmaloney> Which was a work-horse computer
<cmaloney> I have the NEC model of it.
<mrgoodcat> i'm back
<mrgoodcat> trying out weechat for a bit
<cmaloney> I like Weechat
<cmaloney> it's my favorite client so far
<mrgoodcat> i've been using irssi since i started using irc
<mrgoodcat> but i've found a lot of the plugins i was using for irssi are just duplicating weechat functionality
<akelling> Weechat is nice
<cmaloney> yeah, pretty much
<akelling> Install buffers plugin
<akelling>  /script
<cmaloney> weechat is irssi with a little more thought to the user interface
<mrgoodcat> yea i got buffers
<cmaloney> though their insistance on using their syntax for configuration can be a little maddening
<akelling> agreed on there syntax usage.
 * cmaloney is listening to BloodHunter - Dying Sun
<cmaloney> heh. I have a last.fm command. :)
<mrgoodcat> do you really?
<mrgoodcat> in weechat?
<cmaloney> It's a plugin
<mrgoodcat> what plugin?
<cmaloney> lastfm
<mrgoodcat> yea found it
<mrgoodcat> stupid question
<cmaloney> I also recommend the screen_away plugin
<cmaloney> no worries
<mrgoodcat> i use tmux
<cmaloney> IT'll work wiith that as well
<mrgoodcat> ok
<akelling> There is a tux away also. I just installed that the other day.
<cmaloney> Really? Not seeing that
<jrwren> what does that do?
<mrgoodcat> grr... shared servers are the worst
<cmaloney> The screen one checks to see if screen / tmux is displaying and if not it will mark you as away
<akelling> correection it is called screen_away
<cmaloney> Yeah, that's the one I'm using
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: what is wrong with shared servers?
<cmaloney> jrwren: When someone using a shared mysql server proverbially shits the bed with their crappy forum software that makes life on a shared server hellish.
<jrwren> ah, a poorly configured shared server.
<jrwren> shared server 101: no slow queries allowed :)
<cmaloney> I haven't run into one where it's not a problem.
<jrwren> cmaloney: http://www.mattheaton.com/?p=174
<cmaloney> Generally when someone spams a forum it's not slow queries that are a problem but the sheer number of inserts.
<jrwren> and http://www.mattheaton.com/?p=130
<jrwren> and http://www.mattheaton.com/?p=126
<jrwren> but those are in reverse order.
<cmaloney> Now to get those backported to A2hosting. ;)
<jrwren> cmaloney: :(
<cmaloney> Though they are improving substantially
<cmaloney> I think it's harder for folks to traverse directories
<jrwren> cmaloney: almost exactly what you describe: http://www.mattheaton.com/?p=235
<cmaloney> That's great, though it provides no solution. :)
<jrwren> cmaloney: i know. I'm not sure if they ever submitted any of that as open source.
<jrwren> cmaloney: their actions on that led me to like AGPL more. :)
<cmaloney> Yep. I regard companies that hold bug fixes back in the hopes of a competitive advantage to be pretty douchey.
<mrgoodcat> jrwren: trying to use the lastfm plugin in weechat. it uses feedparser. feedparser is not installed as a system package. i don't have sudo to install it systemwide
<cmaloney> I think you can use virtualenv with weechat
<mrgoodcat> i think so too
<mrgoodcat> but i'm annoyed that i have to figure out how
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: virtualenv --system-site-packages to save the day
<cmaloney> save for weechat isn't Python-based
<cmaloney> so you'd have to run the plugins in a virtualenv
<mrgoodcat> yea that
<brousch> Damn this Thinkpad 8 tablet is nice. 8" 1920x1080 dual core 1.46GHz atom 2GB RAM
<brousch> 1920x1200 actually
<jrwren> running windows 8.1?
<brousch> Yeah
<brousch> Running normal windows on here feels like it's less locked down than Android
<brousch> I can install whatever I want, have all of my chrome extensions
<mrgoodcat> well it would feel that way, since android is pretty locked
<brousch> I could install visual studio/PyCharm and develop on the device for the device with a big ole IDE
<mrgoodcat> well good luck with that on 2GB ram
<brousch> Hm, using 68% of RAM with all my usual chrome tabs open
<jrwren> doesn't windows 8.1 use less memory than windows 7?
<brousch> Sure seems like it
<cmaloney> Windows 8.1 uses only 6 bits instead of 8 bits to conserve memory usage
<cmaloney> That's like 35% more bits for you to use.
<cmaloney> (yes I'm making shit up)
<mrgoodcat> RAM usage being high isn't nessecarily a sign of a problem
<mrgoodcat> good caching should actually make use of unused RAM
<brousch> Being flash storage, swapping isn't quite as painful
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: I remember having to disabuse someone of (back in windows 95 / 98) that putting 4GB of memory in their machine meant it wouldn't swap, ever.
<mrgoodcat> lol
<cmaloney> Also: Android is horribly locked down. I blame the phone carriers for being idiots.
<mrgoodcat> i blame everyone involved
<cmaloney> I'd like to think Google would want to make something a little more open
<mrgoodcat> Google, carriers, manufacturers, senators, lobbyists, their families, friends, and goddamn pets
<cmaloney> but maybe that's misguided
<cmaloney> Damn you Fido for insisting the boot loader on my phone needs to be locked down.
<cmaloney> No milkbone for you.
<mrgoodcat> AOSP is actually pretty good
<mrgoodcat> the problem is that google play services are all closed
<cmaloney> Yeah, pretty much anything to do with commerce is closed.
<brousch> So the conundrum I have right now is that Windows tablets give me the most freedom right now.
<brousch> It hurts
<cmaloney> I guess they don't want someone sniffing credit card numbers or hacking faux transactions
<mrgoodcat> you know what hurts?
<mrgoodcat> your double usage of "right now"
<cmaloney> wow
<brousch> :P
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: He wanted to elaborate that right now this was a problem right now. :)
<cmaloney> brousch: Wait for the Ubuntu Tablets
<brousch> I hope it gets Van Halen stuck in your head
<cmaloney> That'll give you so much freedom you'll need a bucket to hold it
<brousch> I've been waiting 2 years!
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: that isn't what i meant with 8.1 using less memory.
<brousch> Hm, a local guy runs owncloud on Dreamhost. This is very interesting. http://wiki.dreamhost.com/OwnCloud
<rick_h_> https://jujucharms.com/owncloud/ :P
<cmaloney> "Please be aware that by using this software, you may be violating our policies. Please make sure you review our Acceptable Use Policy (Personal Backups)"
<cmaloney> That's awesome.
<brousch> Well you need to use their other type of storage
<brousch> "dream objects"
<brousch> rick_h_: But this means no server for me to admin
<brousch> And piggy-backs on the $10/mo I already pay dreamhost for the other random stuff I have there
<rick_h_> oh well
<cmaloney> OwnCloud is pretty interesting to me. But  not sure I'd run it on a web-hosting platform.
 * cmaloney is pretty paranoid about exposing services to the open internet
<cmaloney> SSH is about it
<cmaloney> (well, and Wordpress)
<jrwren> hahahaha.
<cmaloney> And SMTP
<jrwren> if you have wordpress exposed to open internet then you aren't paranoid enough :]
<cmaloney> jrwren: I'll admit it.
<cmaloney> I've been looking at alternatives
<brousch> Django!
<cmaloney> Problem is converting all of my old blog posts is a PITA
<brousch> yes
<cmaloney> brousch: Does Django have Wordpress import? :-P
<cmaloney> Is it Web Scale?
<brousch> it is web scale!
<brousch> http://django-blog-zinnia.readthedocs.org/en/v0.9/import_export.html
<brousch> Apparently at least 1 django-based blogging platform has import from wordpress
<brousch> actually quite a few of them do
<jrwren> https://github.com/SchumacherFM/wordpress-to-hugo-exporter
<brousch> Hm, this thinkpad 8 had a strange power connector. It's like micro-usb+
<brousch> http://www.amazon.com/IVSO-Levovo-Thinkpad-tablet-Lenovo/dp/B00JBD7KPA
<cmaloney> jrwren: There's an import for Pelican as well, but the RST that it generates has issues
<cmaloney> RST doesn't like wrapping links.
<mrgoodcat> i used to use jekyll so i didn't have to expose wordpress externally
<mrgoodcat> now i use mdwiki
<mrgoodcat> static sites ftw
<brousch> Yeah, I should really move to a static blogging platform. I rarely post and use disqus for comments
<mrgoodcat> i had disqus
<mrgoodcat> but i removed it
<brousch> oooh, I moved up to 28 kyu
<cmaloney> I forgot that pseudophedrine pretty much knocks me out
<cmaloney> have been taking the Meijer allergy-relief (Allegra OTC) stuff which makes me pissed off and moody
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-11-11
<rick_h_> morning
<brousch> yes
<mrgoodcat> morning you to you as well
<mrgoodcat> hah, got that Notice from RichiH and for a sec thought it was rick_h_
<rick_h_> huh?
<mrgoodcat> look in your irc status window
<mrgoodcat> there's a notice from the freenode admins
<mrgoodcat> relating to this http://www.gnome.org/groupon/
<rick_h_> ah, gotcha
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> party
<cmaloney> Reminder: MUG is at Buddy's this evening
<cmaloney> free pizza.
<rick_h_> huh?
 * rick_h_ is glad he caught that had no idea
<rick_h_> buddy's where? what's the topic?
<brousch> The topic is "Free Pizza"
<cmaloney> Topic is meet and greet
<cmaloney> Nothing really scheduled as a topic so bring one along. :)
<mrgoodcat> free pizza?
<cmaloney> Yep
<cmaloney> brb
<cmaloney> back
<rick_h_> cmaloney: ok so is this the same time? 6:30?
<rick_h_> cmaloney: how did this pizza idea come about?
<cmaloney> The library is closed for veterans day.
<cmaloney> Ergo rather than skip a month we decided to try something different.
<cmaloney> It's at the same time (6:30pm)
<rick_h_> ah cool
<rick_h_> ok, this is scary crap https://www.techdirt.com/blog/netneutrality/articles/20141012/06344928801/revealed-isps-already-violating-net-neutrality-to-block-encryption-make-everyone-less-safe-online.shtml
<cmaloney> Security Now had a similar instance with Verizon and AT&T putting tracking cookies into web traffic
<rick_h_> yea, but that's different than actually stripping secure connection attempts
<cmaloney> I'd still be pretty pissed in either case
<cmaloney> The sad thing is these are the known compromises. Wonder what crap they're pulling that we don't know yet.
<cmaloney> https://www.groupon.com/blog/cities/gnome-update
<mrgoodcat> well they can backtrack all they want
<mrgoodcat> it doesn't change the fact that they didn't care until everybody knew
<mrgoodcat> i'm still pretty negative on groupon right now
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Oh me too
<mrgoodcat> not gonna make it to usr/group tonight
<cmaloney> I think they're pretty slimey
<cmaloney> Sorry to hear that.
<mrgoodcat> i'll be at CHC tho
<mrgoodcat> i hope
<mrgoodcat> i thought i was going to be there last week
<mrgoodcat> and that didnt really work out
<cmaloney> Understandable
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-11-12
<jrwren> crap they are pulling: mitm ssl proxy :(
<cmaloney> Yeah, thats' some bullshit
<jrwren> mitm ssl proxy is especially scary when you consider that your wireless vendor controls the root ca list on your wireless device. they can mitm ssl and you would never know.
<brousch> One more reason the Internet needs to be treated as a regulated public utility
<dzho> I don't disagree at either end of that, but I don't think the connection between them is as strong.
<dzho> the conclusion I'd draw is, this is why we need libre software on our devices
<dzho> so we can know from whence our ca settings come, and what they are
<brousch> So Linux users are unaffected by this mitm attack?
<cmaloney> GOo dmorning
<rick_h_> morning
<jrwren> dzho: exactly! And we need not just browsers like firefox, but firefox with Certificate Patrol and ability to not SSL connect if a CA has changed. sadly, trusted CAs can't be trusted.
<dzho> brousch: sorry, is that a serious question, or just rhetorical?
<dzho> in either case, you perhaps may be confusing me for an open source advocate.
<brousch> Serious. If open source software prevents this kind of problem, why were Linux users still affected?
<dzho> haha
<dzho> yeah, that's the problem.
<dzho> you seem to think I'm advocating free software as some sort of magic pixie dust to improve quality.
<dzho> as if this is just some question of industrial efficiency.
<dzho> Six Sigma, whoo!
<dzho> brousch: this is what happens when people handwave away the difference between the free software movement and open source
<jrwren> brousch: linux users are affected. I think dzho was pointing out that it is only with open source that we can be sure what is happening.
<dzho> jrwren: close enough, yeah
<brousch> Perhaps
<dzho> that's still a quality argument, and I won't dispute it.
<dzho> https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/when_free_software_isnt_practically_better.html
<dzho> if you've seen that already, my apologies.
<dzho> sorry, I lost this link, which I prefer, since it brings more to the forefront Mako http://mako.cc/writing/hill-when_free_software_isnt_better.html
<jrwren> dzho: does anecdotal evidence to the contrary negate the entirity of that argument?
<dzho> I'm sympathetic to some of the aversion to RMS that people have, and so think it good to emphasize that there are other prominent free software advocates.
<dzho> jrwren: sorry, which argument?
<jrwren> dzho: nevermind. This isn't the article that I thought it was. :)
<dzho> there's an open source quality argument, and a free software is inherently valuable despite quality argumen . . . oh, ok :-)
<cmaloney> I think OSS tends to bring deeper-level security to the forefront
<jrwren> cmaloney: hahahahahahahahaha
<jrwren> cmaloney: you've heard of openssl?
<cmaloney> But I can say from personal experience that I haven't checked my CA list in a while
<jrwren> cmaloney: you remember the debian ssh keys issue?
<cmaloney> jrwren: You remember ILOVEYOU? :)
<jrwren> cmaloney: :)
<cmaloney> The fact that it was 20 years on for openssl means the code was convoluted enough for smart people not to notice
<jrwren> cmaloney: Yes.
<cmaloney> And OSS gets volunteers with varying levels of experience, much like commercial software.
<cmaloney> Trying to think of the recent case where a router was pretty much "WONTFIX" on something rather serious.
<jrwren> cmaloney: in fact, mozilla NSS is a good example
<cmaloney> Not coming to me offhand.
<dzho> I sort of think of FOSS conditions are pre-requisites, rather than guarantees of, certain kinds of security.
<cmaloney> The difference between OSS and commercial software is commercial software has to pay smart people to audit their code. :)
<dzho> (commas might need to be shifted around a bit there but whatev)
<dzho> OSS and commercial are not opposites :-)
<cmaloney> OSS hopefully gets those smart people for free. :)
<cmaloney> dzho: Oh I know this. They're two sides of the same coin.
<dzho> in fact, I think it *possible* for FOSS to allow companies to collaborate to their mutual benefit in a way that would be rightly seen as collusive in a proprietary context.
<cmaloney> I can see where you're coming from on that
<dzho> dangit, I've got a spot on this shirt.
<cmaloney> I'm glad I'm not in Marquette at the moment
<cmaloney> Apparently they have the snow.
<jrwren> cmaloney: or OSS doesn't get those smart people at all, because they are too busy being employed by the commercial vendors.
<cmaloney> jrwren: Yeah
<cmaloney> http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/11/microsoft-open-sources-net-takes-it-to-linux-and-os-x/
<rick_h_> yea, jrwren must be doing a happy dance right now...or a "wtf, why not just buy out and use mono"
<brousch> I've been using VS 2013 desktop for a week now. Very nice
<jrwren> yeah, speaking of open source.
<jrwren> rick_h_: they likely will be using mono, or did use mono to do the port.
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, curious on how that interaction went down
<jrwren> rick_h_: MSFT has basically been helping Xamarin every since they launched.
<brousch> I'm so confused! How can it be a trap if it's MIT licensed?
<greg-g> patents
<jrwren> Every since Scott Guthrie became VP of that division, MSFT has been very open and nice.
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, but they've still kind of kept thing apart in a way.
<jrwren> rick_h_: yup, and now they'll be less apart.
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, but now do they need two different implementations?
<rick_h_> jrwren: or can they all get on board in a single community/code base?
<brousch> Whew, thanks greg-g
<greg-g> brousch: yw, have a nice (paranoid) day!
<rick_h_> jrwren: they get mono's work on apps on other platforms and mono gets to be ootb for all users
<jrwren> rick_h_: pretty sure Mono will use the parts of open source .net that make sense. definitely std library.
<jrwren> rick_h_: runtime will probably be trickier since mono targets WAY more platforms than .net.
<jrwren> rick_h_: Mono does some things which .net has never done. 64bit large array for example. Which people do use in certain applications. Mono runtime will likely stick around.
<jrwren> greg-g: https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/blob/master/PATENTS.TXT
<jrwren> brousch: .net was never a trap, silly.
<greg-g> of course that doesn't have line breaks....
<greg-g> also, thanks jrwren :)
<greg-g> :) We (WMF) are probably going to switch to Debian Jessie (not all at once, gradually) from Precise
<rick_h_> greg-g: :(
<rick_h_> greg-g: any killer issue you hit out of curiosity?
<jrwren> greg-g: o_O why?
<rick_h_> or just general debian support?
<brousch> I assumed it was already on Debian
<greg-g> rick_h_: jrwren there will probably be a blog post when we start doing it. Right now it's just a 17 message thread on our ops list. Hard to summarize. One point is security updates on the entire archive, not just "main"
<greg-g> Also, systemd vs upstart
<greg-g> the longer we stick with upstart the longer we'll create techdebt in it, so might as well switch to systemd now with Jessie than with ... uh, whatever version Ubuntu will be doing the switch
<greg-g> 15.04, apparently
<greg-g> paste-spam:
<greg-g> * One important difference is, of course, upstart & systemd. This is certainly going to be a difference and is going to require work. However, Ubuntu has already declared they will also switch (probably by 15.04) and hence we'll need to do this eventually anyway. Us jumping ship earlier means that we won't need to keep writing upstart
<greg-g>  services for thefull trusty cycle (until April 2016) and that we c an take advantage of the systemd ecosystem and its benefits (cgroups anyone?) earlier.
<greg-g> but, nothing official yet, but the tea leaves (aka list discussion) seems to be saying we're going to switch to Debian with Jessie (on a rolling basis)
<jrwren> interesting.
<jrwren> do you use many packages outside of main?
<jrwren> i've not run debian in a long time. Doesn't debian have main and contrib as well?
<greg-g> doubt we use anything in contrib that we don't package ourselves, but debian's security promise is much wider (by # of packages) than Ubuntu's
<greg-g> * Debian actually security-supports the whole archive, rather than ignoring 95% of it (universe), like Ubuntu. This isn't theoretical: it's the reason e.g.  we still have Icinga behind password auth, why we've had a phpMyAdmin compromise in Labs in the past etc.
<greg-g> * Even in the small set of packages that overlap, Debian's security support is usually better than Canonical's. They're usually faster and usually with more well-thought out patches. (e.g. Heartbleed & POODLE). Also compare the quality (and domain name!) of http://security-tracker.debian.org/ with http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/
<jrwren> greg-g: very interesting.
<jrwren> I wonder how debian is so good now when they were so terrible years ago :)
<greg-g> (that phpmyadmin reference is because someone installed it on a vm in our "labs" infra, aka, our public openstack for anyone)
<rick_h_> greg-g: but still, 6mo wait for ubuntu + systemd is > changing out whole OS?
<rick_h_> we already have cgroups in ubuntu, the whole LXC toolchain is based on it
 * greg-g is on a call now
<rick_h_> greg-g: np, just doing some :P
<jrwren> i'm anti systemd. I hope ubuntu changes course and continues with upstart.
<jrwren> I think eventually debian will not use systemd by default.
<jrwren> So, it seems we value different things :)
<greg-g> rick_h_: short answer: there's a lot more in the thread about this that I haven't quoted :)
<rick_h_> greg-g: cool, I was just curious if there was a straw that broke the camels back kind of thing
<greg-g> not sure if there was a straw, I think it's more "we all kinda want to do it anyways, and timing is right"
<greg-g> the only problem will be our OpenStack host machines, from what I can tell.
<greg-g> (not the guests, but the hosts)
<rick_h_> cool
<rick_h_> hmm, so is this a kind of app hosting thing like a strange app engine built off aws? https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/aws/code-management-and-deployment/
<jrwren> rick_h_: looks like it. Looks like AWS take on Heroku or Azure Web Sites.
<rick_h_> yea
<jrwren> rick_h_: or, AWS take on the best of them all, Cloud Foundry :)
<jrwren> rick_h_: not sure how it is different from Elastic Beanstalk
 * cmaloney is listening to Finntroll - Trollhammaren
<cmaloney> <3
<jrwren> evarlast is currently listening to Suffer the Flesh, by Android Lust (from Resolution)
<trevlar> rick_h_: are you going to CHC tonight? I can finally get your books back to you :)
<rick_h_> trevlar: yep, what books?
<mrgoodcat> company gf works at is looking for a html/css/js developer
<mrgoodcat> let me know if interested
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-11-13
<cmaloney> Evening
<jrwren> what you up to cmaloney ?
<cmaloney> Sitting at CHC playing with the MUG site some
<rick_h_> code reviews!
<cmaloney> Going to head to the parking meter. :)
<cmaloney> brb.
<rick_h_> anyone else need a review?
<jrwren> rick_h_: NO!
<jrwren> :)
<rick_h_> yay!
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> morn
<brousch> Icy morning. I hope you all survived the commute
<rick_h_> the stairs were a little damp but ok :)
<brousch> I saw no less than 10 crashed cars on my 4 mile commute
<mrgoodcat> morn
<mrgoodcat> no ice on this side of the state
<mrgoodcat> not yet anyways
<brousch> I stopped at Tim hortons half way to work and watched the salt trucks finally roll out
<cmaloney> Managed to see some flakes on the drive in
<jrwren> brousch: how much snow on the ground?
<brousch> Maybe 2"
<mrgoodcat> it was snowing when i woke up this morning
<mrgoodcat> almost cried
<mrgoodcat> i don't actually mind snow as long as we have enough of it
<mrgoodcat> light snow is the worst
<nullspace> anyone know of a company looking for a devop like position
<cmaloney> nullspace: I think there was one at the last MUG meeting. I kept a flyer from it but tossed it when I got home.
<cmaloney> Post to the MUG discuss list
<cmaloney> I'm sure there's at least one.
<jrwren> nullspace: arbor networks has positions open looking for devops people.
<jrwren> nullspace: hiring manager is Bryan Beecher
<brousch> Wow, this blog series is full of useful little tidbits http://www.raspberrypi-spy.co.uk/2014/11/how-to-create-a-raspberry-pi-video-capture-unit-part-1/
<cmaloney> brousch: Thanks for sending the snow this way. :P
<mrgoodcat> i don't see any snow...
 * brousch adjusts his blizcannon a bit
<cmaloney> heh
<jrwren> It was sunny and snowing here 1/2 hr ago
<greg-g> it's rained here last night, which is as special as snow in MI
<_stink_> do you go out to make rainmen?
<akelling> I have like 4 inchs on the ground here and high of 10.
<_stink_> wow
<mrgoodcat> wow...
<mrgoodcat> where is 'here'?
<mrgoodcat> marquette?
<akelling> South west part of CO is going to get a few feet of snow.
<akelling> Just move to Colorado
<mrgoodcat> oh cool
<mrgoodcat> i love colorado
<greg-g> I'd love to move there as well
<akelling> I really like it too. There are tons of hiking trails.
<akelling> Lot of people are moving to CO it seems.
<mrgoodcat> downhill mountainbiking
<jrwren> CO is the new Texas.
<mrgoodcat> i broke my bike last time i was in CO though...
<mrgoodcat> D:
<mrgoodcat> my carbon seatpost shattered and my bike basically exploded under me
<akelling> DAMN mrgoodcat !
<mrgoodcat> yea it was bad news
<mrgoodcat> didn't get hurt though so that's good
<mrgoodcat> and Trek subsidized my replacement frame
<akelling> Yeah thats really good.
<mrgoodcat> not free but significantly discounted
<greg-g> jrwren: the new tx?
<mrgoodcat> i think he means with people moving there and all that
<greg-g> people did that for TX?
<mrgoodcat> Austin TX had a population explosion recently
<greg-g> a
<greg-g> ah
<akelling> Austin would be the only place I would live in that state......
<mrgoodcat> austin is overgrown
<mrgoodcat> its cool but just way overcrowded
<mrgoodcat> if i want to live somewhere crowded i'll go to Chicago
<akelling> Its a fun young town.
<mrgoodcat> my cousin lives there and loves it
<mrgoodcat> works for some telecomm company
<mrgoodcat> the write software for voip office phones
<akelling> I hear its a fun little weird city
<jrwren> what mrgoodcat said.
<mrgoodcat> your cousin works for some telecomm company?
<mrgoodcat> inb4 no thats not what i meant
<brousch> I cannot do Android dev on this tablet. There's just not enough RAM for Windows 8.1 + Android Studio + anything else
<mrgoodcat> i think i predicted that iirc
<mrgoodcat> maybe i was talking about visual studio
<brousch> I got the emulator to run once, but with nothing else running
<brousch> And android Studio sort of works, until the Java heap runs out of space
<brousch> bummer
<mrgoodcat> Â¯\( Â° Ê Â°)/Â¯
<mrgoodcat> what can you do?
<mrgoodcat> i suppose you could add more RAM
<brousch> Pycharm and Kivy
<mrgoodcat> 2GB right?
<brousch> You cannot add more ram to this
<brousch> That'd be like adding more ram to a nexus 7 tablet
<mrgoodcat> rly?
<mrgoodcat> is it not slotted RAM?
<brousch> I could try visual Studio Community and make metro apps
<brousch> It's a tablet. Everything is soldered on
<brousch> I'm not sure I can even open this without breaking it
<mrgoodcat> what model?
<jrwren> android emulator has always been a beast.  super slow.
<mrgoodcat> well it has to emulate ARM right?
<jrwren> is android emulator still the ugly grey gradient UI?
<mrgoodcat> or does android run well on x86 now?
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: android has run on x86 for a LONG time, but I don't think the android SDK works that way :)
<brousch> I tried the ARM and x86 virtual devices
<brousch> The emulator isn't the real problem though - I could test on a real device
<brousch> Studio dying on not very hard tasks is the problem
<jrwren> yay eclipse!
<jrwren> this is what happens when software is java and jvm :p
<brousch> Android Studio is not Eclipse. It's based on the android IDE from JetBrains
<mrgoodcat> besides that, the JVM is pretty good
<jrwren> oh?!?
<jrwren> I always thought android studio was based on eclipse.
<jrwren> so android studio is a free version of IDEA?!?!
<brousch> Yeah, They started making an Android IDE several years ago. Google bought it to replace Eclipse+ADT and has been improving it since then
<jrwren> sounds nice. IDEA is a great IDE
<jrwren> too bad its jabba :)
<brousch> If i could get Lubuntu on this I might have a chance at running it
<brousch> ~1.5GB free instead of 750MB
<akelling> I assume you have dropped your settings down to basic on Windows?
<jrwren> services.msc stop all servers :]
<mrgoodcat> you might be able to get lubuntu on it
<akelling> win 8.1 you can get it to be really light
<jrwren> that is what I thought, because they target 1GB RAM tablets, but are there good guides on how to configure it that way?
<akelling> I am sure there is.
<akelling> Dropping into basic graphics I think was as easy as going into display and turning off areo effects and going to classic mode.
<jrwren> couldn't that be actually worse because it won't use GPU and GPU memory?
<cmaloney> http://www.reddit.com/r/progmetal/comments/2m6pdz/cloudkicker_push_it_way_up_live_with_intronaut/
<cmaloney> I can't fucking wait for this album.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-11-14
<mrgoodcat> ive never used code.google.com before but i think it says a lot that the Go project is moving to github
<mrgoodcat> maybe not, but its just funny that a google sponsored project would move away from google hosting
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> google's had a lot of stuff on github for a while
<rick_h_> I think there's some angular stuff, android stuff,
<rick_h_> https://github.com/google lol 16 pages of projects
<mrgoodcat> lots of android
<rick_h_> ok, can't +1 that enough https://twitter.com/kirtan/status/532730437177581568/photo/1
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Google's been trying to offload Google Code for a while.
 * cmaloney is listening to Kalabi - Slow Boat to Nowhere
<cmaloney> Bah, hasn't caught up
<cmaloney> Apparently the album of the morning is Public Image Limited's Acid Drops.
<mrgoodcat> just trying to discontinue another product i guess
<mrgoodcat> at least this time you can see it coming a long way off
<cmaloney> Watching rick_h_ rock the Juju Gui
<rick_h_> woot rock rock rock
<cmaloney> Well now I can't say I didn't participate in UOS. ;)
<dzho> heh
<dzho> so, is that happening now? ;-)
<rick_h_> lol
<cmaloney> UOS is happening now
<rick_h_> https://plus.google.com/116120911388966791792/posts/6YDBe3zwEih
<rick_h_> just wrapped up
<cmaloney> I think it's the last day iirc
<rick_h_> please +1 and reshare and allt hat
<rick_h_> yea, friday friday
<mrgoodcat> just learned chase bank's passwords are case insensitive
<mrgoodcat> cahse--
<mrgoodcat> chase-- even
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Oh that's handy
<greg-g> are they still limited to 12 or something characters?
<mrgoodcat> idk but probably
<mrgoodcat> i don't use chase
<mrgoodcat> huntington is limited to 12 or less, no special chars
<mrgoodcat> its like pls hack my bank
<mrgoodcat> i use simple now. full unicode password support ftw
<cmaloney> I don't understand that at all
<cmaloney> Stop parsing my password and just hash kthxbai.
<mrgoodcat> yea thats all simple does i think
<mrgoodcat> no min/max length that i know of
<mrgoodcat> actually the advertised no max length when i set mine up
<greg-g> I'm fine with reasonable minimums (like 6 or 8 or so)
<cmaloney> I'm fine with them parsing the password client-side and saying things like "that password is your cat's name. Seriously don't use that"
<cmaloney> but rejecting it once it hits the server == bad.
<_stink_> CHASE-- and chase-- and chASe--
<cmaloney> unless they're decrypting the password
<cmaloney> _stink_: hahahahaha
<mrgoodcat> "We'll grade your passphrase strength and require at least a C to pass"
<mrgoodcat> looks like client side
<mrgoodcat> its doing it as i type
<cmaloney> Yeah, that I don't mind in the slightest
<mrgoodcat> no max length it looks like
<cmaloney> ++
<greg-g> I forget who it was, but some bank just truncated after 12 characters and hashed/whatever that
<greg-g> so, 123456789012A and 123456789012B were the same to them
<greg-g> thought it was Chase, but /me shrugs
<cmaloney> greg-g: Seriouslyt
<cmaloney> ?
<greg-g> yeppers
<cmaloney> Sadly I'm sure the reasoning was because someone read that passwords 8-12 characters long were secure and someone else didn't want to waste the space on the drives for the extra characters. ;)
<greg-g> cleartext ftw!
<cmaloney> (Even though the results were likely salted / hashed, or encrypted)
<greg-g> most likely, PCI DSS and all that
<greg-g> but seriously, not sure how "truncate after 12 chars, oh, and don't tell the user" is PCI DSS compliant
<cmaloney> The results are hashed / encrypted
<cmaloney> so [x]
 * greg-g nods
<cmaloney> That's why I have to laugh at some of the compliance audits
<cmaloney> Sometimes they codify stupid behavior
<greg-g> I'm glad I know Zero about PCI DSS other than the 6 letters, I easily forget what they stand for even :)
<cmaloney> People Can Infer Dumb System Specs?
<greg-g> :)
<cmaloney> s/INfer/ Implement/
<greg-g> somethign like that
<rick_h_> greg-g: that was windows at one time
<cmaloney> Oh yeah, Windows XOR passwords. :)
<cmaloney> That was Windows 95-era, iirc
<cmaloney> rick_h_: I think I found your next computer: http://www.rave.com/products/xeon-21-tri-screen/
<cmaloney> Unfortunately it has a trackpad though
<rick_h_> cmaloney: hah, I'm trying to make https://play.google.com/store/devices/details?id=nexus_9_keyboard_folio_black my next travel computer but it's still coming soon
<cmaloney> responsive mechanical keyboard
<jrwren> windows used xor passwords?
<cmaloney> I don't think that means what you think it means
<rick_h_> cmaloney: heh, yea only for travel
<mrgoodcat> most banks use the same software for their online banking
<mrgoodcat> it was made by a 3rd party
<rick_h_> I'm not giving up my kenisis, 4k, standing desk any time soon
<mrgoodcat> and only supported up to 12 characters
<cmaloney> jrwren: Yeah, there was a pretty simple password-cracker for Windows iirc.
<mrgoodcat> can't rmbr what company made it
<greg-g> CDC?
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> oh, wait, I was mixing cmaloney and mrgoodcat :)
<cmaloney> har har
<greg-g> (CDC == Cult of the Dead Cow, for those that didn't get the reference)
<jrwren> cmaloney: it wasn't just ntlmv1?
<cmaloney> jrwren: My memory and Google-fu are failing me at the moment
<cmaloney> http://insecure.org/sploits/windoze.sharepasswords.html <- This is the only thing I'm noticing ATM
<cmaloney> I think the screensaver password was XOR as well
<cmaloney> Maybe that's what I'm conflating
<jrwren> maybe old lanman compat, so not even ntlm
<cmaloney> Yeah, nothing recent
<cmaloney> Though there was a way to reset the admin PW on a Windows machine using a Linux / NTFS disk
<cmaloney> Remember using that on Chrysler machines to get access to the admin accounts
<cmaloney> But that's not the fault of Windows, rather the fault of having physical access.
<jrwren> cmaloney: i think that still works.
<jrwren> cmaloney: yeah, can definitely do that with linux too.
<mrgoodcat> yea you can do that on any of the 3 major OSs
<mrgoodcat> i've done it on my own linux machine actually
<mrgoodcat> but my encrypted homedir was toasted
<cmaloney> ouch
<mrgoodcat> its fine i back up
<cmaloney>  http://www.jonobacon.org/2014/11/14/ubuntu-governance-reboot/
<cmaloney> So far this morning my Squeezebox has been picking out great albums at random
<cmaloney> Though I had to tell it that I didn't want to listen to live Pigface this morning
<akelling> http://depressedalien.com/Large/253.png
<cmaloney> http://www.metalinjection.net/av/mike-portnoys-contribution-to-the-new-haken-ep-is-just-astounding
<cmaloney> Apparently the band had a competition to figure out what Mike Portnoy's contribution was
<cmaloney> and someone guessed almost, but not quite right
<cmaloney> akelling: hah. :)
<cmaloney> I'm about 2 seconds away from enabling a pep8 git hook that will reject any commit that fails pep8
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> at work?
<mrgoodcat> could probably add it to the CI tests pretty easily
<mrgoodcat> build:failed "pep8 fail"
<cmaloney> yeah
<cmaloney> also: "log message too long"
<mrgoodcat> not even necessarily a bad idea as long as people would fix it and recommit
<cmaloney> also: commented code detected
<mrgoodcat> commented code is not always bad
<mrgoodcat> mostly yes
<mrgoodcat> not but always
<mrgoodcat> came across a comment at work the other day that was basicall "# don't even try to fix this function if it breaks. just rewrite it"
 * cmaloney is listening to Motorpsycho - Don't Wait
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Was that one you left in there?
<mrgoodcat> not that i remember?
<mrgoodcat> didn't git blame
<mrgoodcat> probably
<mrgoodcat> lol
<cmaloney> Sounds like something I'd leave in there
<mrgoodcat> it is something i merged at the very least though
<mrgoodcat> since its in a part of the code that is not older than my employment
<derekv> so, here's a nonsense question, if you have a 1to1 relation, what language do you normally use to describe the situation where, the entity on one side is meaningless without the other (maybe, ownership?), vs both sides exist independently of each other
<mrgoodcat> english
<mrgoodcat> :)
<mrgoodcat> like user has one phone but phone is useless without user?
<mrgoodcat> i'd say ownership
<derekv> found this http://stackoverflow.com/questions/762937/whats-the-difference-between-identifying-and-non-identifying-relationships
<derekv> mrgoodcat: yes
<mrgoodcat> why are they in separate tables?
<mrgoodcat> if B is meaningless without A and its 1-1 couldn't B just be in table A?
<derekv> in a relational db, you'd probably put them in the same table
<derekv> but i'm playing with the idea of a data model to describe data models =P
<derekv> and was trying to decide if there was more than one type of 1to1 relationship
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-11-15
<derekv> here's an interesting thought, you'd usually just have a String column in a table, you wouldn't usually have a FK to a table called "strings" and use it for every column in every table that calls for a string
<derekv> i think partly that is because there is no interesting difference between the string "derekv" irregardless of where it appears... it's identity _is_ its data
<derekv> (plus a hundred other reasons)
<derekv> like if i had a VehicleBasicDescription{ model_year: num, doors: num, ext_color: color } ... and then I had Vehicle{ vin: string, description: VehicleBasicDescription } and Buyer{ name: string, prefered_vehicle: VehicleBasicDescription }
<derekv> there's no conceptual reason to have VehicleBasicDescription be it's own table
<cmaloney> GOod morning
<cmaloney> Heading to the vet this morning for Pixel's check-up
<cmaloney> Looking forward to trying to get her into the cat carrier. :)
<rick_h_> cat party time
<jrwren> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00MNOPS1C/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=1MPOO6SP217SS&coliid=I2QJAIOV0WK9X  for linux, what do you think?
<cmaloney> Good afternoon
<cmaloney> jrwren: 32GB is awfully small
<cmaloney> for $30 more you can get the 15" model with 500GB 5400 RPM drive, and double the memory
<cmaloney> Though the ratingsa aren't that great it seems
<cmaloney> Acc. to the Q/A section 10GB of that eMMC are reserved for Windows recovery
<cmaloney> Might as well get a Chromebook at that rate
<_stink_> 5 hour battery would be my biggest turn off
<_stink_> that should be on a personal ad
<cmaloney> That's about what I get on my laptop
<_stink_> "biggest turnoff: 5 hour battery"
<cmaloney> I have an older battery / machine though
<_stink_> all i have is a chromebook these days
<cmaloney> so I get about 3 hours tops
<_stink_> so yeah i'm spoiled for battery
<_stink_> i traded a real OS for a good battery :P
<_stink_> anyone in here do radio controlled hobby type stuff?
<_stink_> i'm looking for a radio recommendation
<dickweed> jrwren: Get a c720 for the same money. Similar specs with exceptional linux support
<dickweed> and a much longer battery life
<dickweed> hmm reading about the proc in that computer and i may be wrong about the battery life
<dickweed> the silvermont architecture was designed to be very low TDP (4.5W). The Haswell chips are all fundamentally the same from the 2955u to the 3000$ xeons, the differences are entirely outside the core. Thus, the silvermont processor (in the laptop you linked) may get better battery life but the 2955u (in the c720) will perform better thread-for-thread. at least from what i can see
<mrgoodcat> i really have to figure out how to get my client to stop doing that after netsplits
<mrgoodcat> changes my name to my super old immature username
<cmaloney> _stink_: my FIL used to do hobby RC stuff but his stuff is super-old.
<_stink_> ok np.  i found #rc on efnet and they're pretty helpful
<cmaloney> cool
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-11-16
<tony-smlr> SMLR E139 Live now (11/16/2014) - Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rry6v1HaB4  -  Audio: http://live.smlr.us:8000/streaming
<cmaloney> Good morning
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: thanks for the c720 recommendation. The reason I don't want that is the lack of super key on chromebooks
<rick_h_> 3yr reflection http://blog.mitechie.com/2014/11/16/working-at-canonical-three-years-in-a-k-a-wtf-just-happened/
<rick_h_> for all that light reading everyone was looking for :)
<rick_h_> morning and such
<rick_h_> or afternoon/evening I guess
<cmaloney> What the hell have you done with our rick_h_ ?
<cmaloney> Bloggggging?
<cmaloney> :)
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> once a year kind of thing :P
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> http://boardgamegeek.com/video/57214/kanban-automotive-revolution/dice-tower-reviews-kanban
<cmaloney> This is a review of the Kaban board game
<rick_h_> kanban game?
<cmaloney> yeah, there's a worker-placement game based on "kanban"
<rick_h_> hah
<cmaloney> It's an automitive-themed game.
<cmaloney> Not sure I'm following it
<rick_h_> well I think kanban kind of came out of the automotive practices stuff
<rick_h_> lean manufacturing/etc
<cmaloney> Yeah, it makes sense.
<cmaloney> Christ there's a lot of stuff in this game.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-11-09
<_stink_> but the slurpees?  awesome.
<rick_h__> morning
<_stink_> yo
<cmaloney> MOrning
<cmaloney> Sitting at Beaumont because woo
<rick_h__> cmaloney: :(
<cmaloney> no worries
<Scary_Guy> morning
<cmaloney> morning
<Scary_Guy> anyone know a good way to manage keybindings.  seems like the WM conflicts with every app I have installed
<cmaloney> WHich WM? i3?
<Scary_Guy> yup
<cmaloney> I think there were a few i3 users
<cmaloney> (in the channel)
<Scary_Guy> i can go into the config (and have) and moved some stuff around
<cmaloney> right
<cmaloney> which keys specifcally are conflicting?
<Scary_Guy> well I'm using MATE as the DE and i3 as the WM, so functionality might not be "normal" I'm not sure
<Scary_Guy> like in weechat the arrow keys switch buffers with the alt modifiers
<Scary_Guy> in i3 alt and arrow keys move the window focus around, as secondary keys though so I just commented those out
<Scary_Guy> weechat has a /scripts command that works like a package manager kind of.  so alt+i installs the script.  so unfortunately I like a different key layout in i3 so I had to move the other keys, not a huge deal but kind of hard to explain in text
<Scary_Guy> normal window movement is jkl; but I prefer a wasd style FPS layout, so I made it ijkl but i was taken for install so I moved it to jbnm because h moves windows to a horizontal layout and it's just annoying playing whackamole with keybindings
<Scary_Guy> I just realized I should probably look at using the numberpad specifically for movement
<jrwren> cmaloney: i'll be at henry ford macomb later today. maybe we can meet up and swap stories. :)  *sigh*
<cmaloney> jrwren: What brings you out there?
<Scary_Guy> work I hope
<jrwren> cmaloney: ever see leaving las vegas? My dad tried that. I thought he was going to die on Thursday.
<cmaloney> oh no
<jrwren> yeah, he looks a lot better than he did on Thursday, but his liver and kidneys are still failing
<Scary_Guy> wow
<cmaloney> jrwren: Fuck, I had to look up the movie. Not cool
<jrwren> oh, yeah. trying to drink yourself to death is not cool.
<jrwren> hiding your depression and drinking from your family for years is not cool.
<Scary_Guy> sounds like my mom, except she wasn't hiding it.  on the plus side she stopped, on the negative side, painkillers for chronic back pain
<jrwren> was she drinking because of the back pain?
<Scary_Guy> partly
<Scary_Guy> partly also depression, she seems much better these days
<jrwren> I think he is same though he'd might not admit the depression.
<Scary_Guy> although she holds up in her room and avoids people like the plague now
<Scary_Guy> depression is a hard thing to admit, sometimes even to ones self
<cmaloney> Yeah, I can relate
<cmaloney> have some online friends that are deep in the depression well
<Scary_Guy> bbl
<cmaloney> jrwren: If you need anythin LMK
<jrwren> cmaloney: thanks.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-11-10
<cmaloney> Fucking hell
<cmaloney> just got back from round two.
<rick_h__> ugh :(
<rick_h__> sucky cmaloney
<cmaloney> Yeah, no worries
<cmaloney> Hopefully we'll have a quiet night so I can get my headlight replaced on my car. :)
<Scary_Guy> exit
<Scary_Guy> fuck
<Scary_Guy> Does anyone know of anywhere that discusses UI/UX theory?  No WM seems to do what I want :(
<Scary_Guy> bbl, nap
<Scary_Guy> So I plan on making it, who else is going today?
<rick_h__> making?
<rick_h__> and UI/UX theory, lots of books and online places to chat UX. I just normally bug one of our UX folks to bikeshed stuff
<Scary_Guy> the mug.org meetup
<rick_h__> ah, not going to make it tonight
<Scary_Guy> too bad, I'm looking forward to meeting new people.  all I remember is I owe someone a cookie, not quite sure who :)
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> I'lm planning on being htere but not sure about Red Lobster afterward
<Scary_Guy> I'm making a special point for that.  I want to try that pizza!
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> Yeah, it is a favorite
<Scary_Guy> I don't think you understand how deep my love of pizza affects me. <3
<cmaloney> Oh I understand completely
<Scary_Guy> That isn't a heart, it's a pizza with a bent crust
<cmaloney> Same. Pizza is awesome
<Scary_Guy> I'm mildly autistic and am super picky, I eat like 5 things
<Scary_Guy> I could eat pizza for the rest of my life and be happy
<Scary_Guy> I'm not saying that's a good thing, but it is indeed a thing
<cmaloney> understood
<PainBank> Do you ever get that feeling, when you are not in an irc channel long enough, you have anxiety over having not been there in a while?
<PainBank> It's been a while and feels good to be back in here.
<Scary_Guy> Only when I know there are people who don't like me that used to show up as regulars
<Scary_Guy> http://www.swpc.noaa.gov/news/g1-minor-progress-cme-arrival-expected-within-next-48-hours
<PainBank> fascinating.  never delved into CME and solar flares much.  quite the interesting thing there.
<PainBank> it will be interesting when we get hit with a severe one that knocks out a lot of serious electronics.
<Scary_Guy> I saw it come across #i3detroit and thought I'd share for anyone interested, considering the people here might want to know.
<Scary_Guy> hey
<cmaloney> lo
<Scary_Guy> welcome back
<Scary_Guy> thinking on what you said earlier I also wonder if most people are quiet just because they don't like me.  then after I leave the channel comes to life with activity.  Schrodinger's IRC
<PainBank> thanks.  and ya, you gotta poke it to see if it has changed and in doing so....
<cmaloney> I think folks just get busy with the day
<cmaloney> rick_h__: https://www.eightsensiblegifts.com
<Scary_Guy> so I got lazy.  I hear theoretically I can conference in somehow?
<Scary_Guy> oh neat, youtube.  they do streaming right?  I hate missin out :/
<rick_h__> cmaloney: hah on the gifts
<cmaloney> Yeah, we're running a hangout
<Scary_Guy> cool, how do I join?
<cmaloney> https://hangouts.google.com/call/5ddj7gh3yackvt2amdjll65llia
<Scary_Guy> sweet, now why can't chromium see my camera and why can't hangouts work without it?
<Scary_Guy> never mind, am retarded
<Scary_Guy> "Couldn't start the video call because of a network error."  grrrr
<cmaloney> uh
<cmaloney> ugh
<Scary_Guy> I'm about to download chrome proper and try that :/
<brousch> Deicide might be the only band more awesome than Morbid Angel
<cmaloney> I never got into Deicide
<Scary_Guy> Shape of Despair
<Scary_Guy> thanks, the audio sucks though, I'll watch it on youtube later :/
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-11-11
<cmaloney> What's wrong with the audio?
<Scary_Guy> choppy low qual, same with video.  checked the settings, not my end
<cmaloney> Ah
<Scary_Guy> I figure youtube will be higher quality anyway
<Scary_Guy> so I guess the only down side is I can't live chat about it.  guess I'll go do some actual work, later guys
<cmaloney> nuts
<brousch> I'm making a logo for my consulting LLC, Rational Rooster. Opinions: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6Wp9Akf_CvRcE4zd1o5OHdpTkE
<_stink_> brousch: maybe add a wattle under the beak?
<brousch> I tried a couple of times, but it always looked like balls
<_stink_> hahaha
<_stink_> yeah i can see
<_stink_> that
<cmaloney> http://s39.photobucket.com/user/joelnro/media/eggheadjr.jpg.html
<cmaloney> This is what I see with that logo, brousch
<brousch> Interesting. Maybe I dredged it up from my subconscious
<_stink_> haha, cmaloney++
<Richard67> Is CHC still a go on Wednesday nights?
<cmaloney> Yeah, it is
<cmaloney> though I might not make it
<cmaloney> https://plus.google.com/u/0/communities/105711849406316277146
<cmaloney> That's our community
<cmaloney> I post the events there
<cmaloney> We're meeting at Bean and Leaf in Royal Oak
<cmaloney> Assuming that you didn't already log off.
<cmaloney> bugger.
<cmaloney> Seriously, more than one minute please
<_stink_> hah
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-11-12
<rick_h__> evening
<_stink_> yo
<rick_h__> we having fun?
<_stink_> 3 kids bath and bed
<_stink_> no. :P
<cmaloney> Heading to CHC
<cmaloney> brb
<Scary_Guy> hey, on the off chance that any of you are near Allan Park and have extra thermal paste, I'm building a computer and don't have any
<Scary_Guy> or if any of you know a computer store that keeps late late hours and doesn't charge a premium for it, that would be nice too
<cmaloney> Wish I could help on both counts
<cmaloney> Microcenter is the only place I can think of and they close at 10pm
<Scary_Guy> shit, if I drive like crazy I might make it,  thought they closed at 9?
<cmaloney> THought Best Buy had thermal paste at one point but haven't stepped foot in one in a while
<Scary_Guy> maybe I can get my friend to get some
<cmaloney> Checking site
<Scary_Guy> that's cool, no need, I have the interweb too
<cmaloney> Dammit, you're right
<cmaloney> they're closed.
<Scary_Guy> thanks a ton
<Scary_Guy> anyone here have jabber+otr?  I just got bitlbee working and no friends are online
<Scary_Guy> never mind, he showed up
<cmaloney> Morning, btw.
<_stink_> yo
<rick_h_> morn
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-11-14
<Scary_Guy>  /c
<Scary_Guy> okay, I need some help.  windows explorer is a bloated hog and is therefore a horrible shell and file manaager.  I need windows for reasons but want to reduce memory footprint.  Is anyone here familiar with the "dark arts"?  I'd use bblean64 but it's outdatedand buggy
<Scary_Guy> alternatively if anyone has a badass gaming laptop they want to sell cheap I can take this thing to the range and load up a nice target wallpaper, then have some fun destroying it.  It's barely useable for e-mail, and I need it to do way more
<Scary_Guy> bbl, question still stands if anyone has any advice, thx
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> I haven't played much with the Windows "Dark Arts"
<cmaloney> (I know he's offline but not sure if reading online archives)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-11-14
<rick_h> Morning
<jrwren> monday monday
<cmaloney> morning and all that
<cmaloney> rick_h: Back in the states?
<rick_h> cmaloney: yep, back in time to see all the leaves off the trees
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> Welcome back!
<cmaloney> http://www.bunicomic.com/comic/buni-906/
<jrwren> you missed a beautiful 2 weeks
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-11-15
<jrwren> keynote is in 15min: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1611/2016-11-15/
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h> morning
<jrwren> good morning
<Scary_Guy> morning
<cmaloney> Afternoon and all that.
<gamerchick02> 'zactly
<gamerchick02> what do you say to someone at work who wants to change your entire desk setup for "dual monitors" when you don't like that?
<cmaloney> Have you tried dual monitors?
<gamerchick02> seriously, i use one so i don't lose things. just because i don't work the same way as you do (you damn millennial) doesn't mean i'm freaking WRONG
<gamerchick02> yes, it's a pain in my backside and i don't particularly like it.
<cmaloney> I find dual monitors handy but I can understand the pushback
<cmaloney> Use one as a wallpaper monitor.
<gamerchick02> also "use the remote desktop, it's so much better"
<cmaloney> so you have an ever-changing picture in your office. :)
<gamerchick02> no, i can't pull reports out of CoDeP and save them properly with that
<cmaloney> Ah, then you have something you can push back with
<gamerchick02> i tile, as well as i can in windows 7
<cmaloney> Then tell them "my work becomes more difficult with two monitors"
<gamerchick02> he offered another monitor and i laughed. it was so tiny! it was CUTE
<gamerchick02> (i have a CAD laptop, my monitor is much larger)
<gamerchick02> i guess i just don't like people telling me how to setup my workspace. just because it works for you doesn't mean it will work for me.
<cmaloney> That's understandable
<gamerchick02> i'm particular about how my stuff is setup. don't force me to change.
<gamerchick02> i'm a grumpy old
<gamerchick02> i can say that because the guy training me is under 30
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> brb
<gamerchick02> i'm 35. hence grumpy old
<gamerchick02> ok!
<jrwren> ha!
<jrwren> so true.
<cmaloney> I've found both doual monitors and single monitors can be productive
<cmaloney> I prefer the dual monitors when I'm developing as I can keep docs / browsers opn in another tab
<cmaloney> er, monitor
<cmaloney> but I wouldn't presume to make it mandatory
<cmaloney> $lastjob had a dual monitor workspace by default for everyone in the company
<cmaloney> but a  lot of folks had multiple applications open that they used to check data and what-not
<cmaloney> again, presumption is the devil.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-11-16
<jrwren> you read docs?!?!  :p
<cmaloney> jrwren: I didn't want to say "have Stack Overflow open"
<jrwren> bwahahahaha
<gamerchick02> well, i use a single monitor at home and it works fine, especially on win10 now with multiple desktops. :)
<gamerchick02> i love multiple desktops. more than i probably should...
<gamerchick02> i just get grumpy when someone insists that i need to do my work the same way they do their work. uhm, no. if i find a second monitor to be useful, i'll use it.
<gamerchick02> so. put it this way, if you force me into something, i'll be very resistant to it, but if you let me come to my own conclusions, i'll be more interested in doing it a different way.
<gamerchick02> ok i'm out. gonna lay on the couch and veg. this stupid cold is killing me. see everyone tomorrow night!! :)
<Scary_Guy> My friend's old setup from when he had his apartment http://www.realtimesoft.com/multimon/gallery_browse.asp?ID=421&date=desc&nummon=true&mon=desc
<Scary_Guy> I only have three right now, down from five
<Scary_Guy> I have one monitor dedicated to IRC and another with ncmpcpp and htop, then the main bigscreen for movies, games, and whatnot
<Scary_Guy> also i3wm works amazing for productivity.  especially using mate and just replacing marco with it
<Scary_Guy> the only thing I hate is sorting out any conflicting keyboard shortcuts
<cmaloney> I'm finding the You Don't Know JavaScript books are awesome for understanding what the hell JavaScript is doing
<rick_h> hah, fun stuff
<cmaloney> especially the book on this and Object Oriented
<cmaloney> Basically every problem I've had with JavaScript is how folks try to use it and get it wrong. :)
<cmaloney> like trying to treat "this" as "self"
<cmaloney> You can do it, but eventually it will surprise you
<cmaloney> because they're not quite the same
<jrwren> not at all the same thing, IMO
<jrwren> but... I'm insane
<cmaloney> Wel, I watched a HTML5 Game Development video
<cmaloney> and he explained that `this` could lead to gotchas
<cmaloney> because of where it is in the stack
<cmaloney> and I'm thinking "you're doing it wrong"
<cmaloney> he basically made a global "class" that he passed around
<jrwren> oh! so... you were waiting for it to surprise him?
<cmaloney> WEll, he pointed it out to his "class"
<cmaloney> (about four developers)
<cmaloney> and mentioned how it could get you into trouble
<cmaloney> which made me wonder why he used `this` at all.
<jrwren> ah, I see.
<jrwren> well, when a method is defined on an object and you want to access that object, this is how you do that, right?
<cmaloney> From what I've seen it's a huge "it depends"
<cmaloney> I'm not sure I 100% understandit
<jrwren> cmaloney: effective javascript is a good book which gives it good treatment.
<cmaloney> Because the example he (the video) showed had an instance where the browser was the last thing on the stack
<cmaloney> right
<cmaloney> I swear I have more books on JavaScript than I did for Perl / Python
<jrwren> :)
<cmaloney> and unfortunately a lot of them are from 2012 / 2013
<jrwren> part of that, I think, is that there are a lot of bad javascript books.
<cmaloney> oh no doubt
<jrwren> i had a thought about perl this morning. Is there such a thing as a linux without perl?
<jrwren> I cannot htink of a linux distro without it. I think even android uses it.
<cmaloney> I think it's still in use
<cmaloney> for those who don't want to dip into awk
<cmaloney> or want to combine awk and sed. :)
<jrwren> cmaloney: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1611/meeting/22721/meetupcom-for-loco-teams/ is happening now.
<jrwren> <3 awk
<cmaloney> I'm tethered right now so I'm loathe to stream video
<jrwren> ah, well it will be recorded and on youtube. I'll probably watch it later.
<cmaloney> It's been one way that we've kept MUG growing
<cmaloney> I think we get at least one or two folks who pop in for a meeting
<cmaloney> retention is kind of a PITA though
<shakes808> hello eveyone,  I wanted to know if anyone has run into this issue.  I have a stored proc that I can call within SQL Management Studio but when I run it in my ASP.NET C# web app it doesn't seem to execute correctly.  I have a bunch of PRINTs in the stored proc and I see that the final query that is being generated is not complete.  What would cause it to work in SQL Management Studio but not through the call of the site?
<cmaloney> Different engines? Not sure
<cmaloney> May want to see how ASP.NET C# calls stored procs
<cmaloney> and if there's some strangeness in what it does to make the call
<cmaloney> Also: are you passing the query over or are you doing some form of execution on the database itself?
<jrwren> i didnt' even know you could PRINT in a stored proc and expect to get those results.
<jrwren> shakes808: is the query timing out? is it long and slow and webpage execution is timing out and dropping the sql connection and causing the sproc to time out?
<shakes808> cmaloney: I am calling this stored proc like all the others that I have called in the past.   Creating the sql object and the parameter objects to to pass to it and then invoking it.
<shakes808> jrwren: When the stored proc errors out, it will print the PRINTs and then the error.   It is a way to debug it since you don't have access to debug the query outside of SQL Management Studio.  It is at least a way to give yourself cookie crumbs :)
<cmaloney> Did you try removing the prints to see if the error shows up sooner?
<shakes808> jrwren: and it isn't timing out because the PRINTs coming after the query is built continue and I get to the last PRINT
<cmaloney> It might be dumping the buffer when the query ends
<shakes808> cmaloney: I did not do that, but if I do that, then I won't know where it is erroring out.  That is the only way to figure out where it is in the stored proc
<cmaloney> That's not the only place. :)
<cmaloney> create a temp table and insert into it where you are
<cmaloney> and then select from that table to see where it ends
<cmaloney> (has to be more permanent than a "temp" table, but you get the idea
<shakes808> cmaloney: alright, I will remove all the PRINT statements and see what happens.
<jrwren> shakes808: it isn't timing out in asp.net, but its not completing? sounds like a fun issue to debug. I'm jealous.
<cmaloney> jealous isn't the word that comes to mind
<shakes808> HAHA
<shakes808> jrwren: You are more than welcome to come by and help!   Been trying to figure this out for a day and a half now
<jrwren> envious then.
<jrwren> I wouldn't want to deprive shakes808 of the fun.
<shakes808> jrwren: HAHAHA, thanks!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-11-17
<cmaloney> Evening
<Scary_Guy> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OExk2pnM7Cs just something I saw
<cmaloney> Good morning
<Scary_Guy> hey
<rick_h> morning
<cmaloney> How's the day so far?
<Scary_Guy> recent Robocraft update nerfed the power cube so it takes up an item slot and has a two minute cooldown time rather than just faster energy generation.
<Scary_Guy> I just got it three days ago, just sold it 10 minutes ago
<Scary_Guy> other than stupid stuff that doesn't really matter, pretty well
<Scary_Guy> anyway off to bed, later
<cmaloney> I'm not familiar with that game
<cmaloney> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_JVM_languages
<cmaloney> (got here from reading a blog post by Steve Yegge where he mentioned "Kotlin" which I'd never heard of before.
<brousch__> cmaloney: Quite a bit of Kotlin going around GR
<cmaloney> Apparently I'm not in the circles that focus on JVM languages. :)
<brousch__> Blue Medora is using it a lot, and we have a decent size Android app in Kotlin. I chose to go with Java for the app I'm working on so I can learn proper Android
<jrwren> steve yegge has a new post?
<cmaloney> jrwren: Yep
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-11-18
<cmaloney> whee
<greg-g> I could read all of the bidenbro memes if I had the time
<greg-g> I literal lol too much to them :)
<greg-g> http://imgur.com/tIPuA0x
<greg-g> https://i.redd.it/lufnoa601hxx.png
<greg-g> anywho
<greg-g> back to making slides for the keynote tomorrow morning
<cmaloney> morning
<Scary_Guy> hey
<cmaloney> How goes?
<Scary_Guy> goes okay I guess
<greg-g> morning
<cmaloney> morning
<jrwren> nothing good about it.
<greg-g> uh oh
<cmaloney> What happened?
<cmaloney> (other than people are driving like assholes on the freeways)
<Zimdale> Whoa wait
<Zimdale> there's a time people aren't driving like assholes on the freeways?
<jrwren> sick and got worse instead of better.
<jrwren> 10days now :[
<cmaloney> jrwren: Fuck. :(
<greg-g> 10 days? what kind of sick?
<cmaloney> Have you seen a pro doctor?
<jrwren> well, 9 days.
<jrwren> well, it hasn't been too bad until last night.
<jrwren> just a scratchy throat, not even much pain, first few days/
<Scary_Guy> 4AM, most of the drunks are off the road, morning rush hasn't begun yet
<Scary_Guy> mostly cops and truckers
<jrwren> then it turned into sniffles, but was easily remedied with sudafed, not even the good stuff, the replacement stuff was working fine.
<jrwren> then... last night... UGH... so ill.
<jrwren> not a good day.
<cmaloney> jrwren: Ugh indeed
<gamerchick02> i listened to a training on security for vehicles today.
<gamerchick02> i peaced out about halfway through (it was narrated, oh god no) and still got 7/10 which is passing on the quiz after.
<gamerchick02> it was 2 hours. of a German guy narrating. interesting, but not for two hours...
<_stink_> sehr gut
<gamerchick02> yes.
<cmaloney> gamerchick02: That's traning videos for you.
<gamerchick02> yeah, for sure.
<gamerchick02> i would have rather read the information instead of listened to it.
<cmaloney> But then you don't get the lovely Computer Based Training to see if you understood the material
<cmaloney> or understand how to game CBT.
<gamerchick02> there was a quiz at the end
<gamerchick02> i passed with 7/10
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-11-19
<cmaloney> Storms
<_stink_> windows left open :/
<cmaloney> whee
<gamerchick02> whee. it's late
<gamerchick02> late-ish.
<cmaloney> morning
<Scary_Guy> jeu
<Scary_Guy> hey
<Scary_Guy> fuck I'm tired
<Scary_Guy> DJ'ed a last minute show at City, 56 people though which isn't bad for less than 5 hours promotion
<Scary_Guy> I think most just wandered in though
<Scary_Guy> anyway the usual sound system is in for repair, so Source Audio loaned us one comprable to the one we had for Movement
<Scary_Guy> holy shitballs was that loud.  I played Cups by Underworld.  Thought the ceiling was goign to cave or floor collapse or something
<cmaloney> nice
<Scary_Guy> yeah I was really impressed, looking forward to my show next week
<Scary_Guy> hell, turning on the amps made an audible powering up noise, you could tell they all had mega power and I probalby didn't even use half of it
<cmaloney> Sounds like the usual sound system was on its last legs anyway
<Scary_Guy> it was new!
<cmaloney> then it's underpowered. :)
<Scary_Guy> me, Joe, Bill Cosey (sound guy for Cheep Trick) and DJ Stu went to Mt. Clemens to get it
<Scary_Guy> some idiot blew half the subs and some other idiot blew the other half
<Scary_Guy> so some of the guys from Source are the original guys who put the system together 30 someodd years ago
<cmaloney> For a second I thought you said "Bill Cosby" and I wondered what he was doing with Cheap Trick
<Scary_Guy> lol
<Scary_Guy> no, just the best damn sound guy in Detroit
<Scary_Guy> well, one of them anyway
<Scary_Guy> does openmetalcast have a failbook?  I was talking with a friend last night about music and I think he might be into that type of thing.
<Scary_Guy> screw it, just sent him a direct link to the site
<cmaloney> failbook?
<cmaloney> or Facebook?
<cmaloney> Because the answer for both is no
<Scary_Guy> failbook is one of my pet names for facebook
<Scary_Guy> the other is potatobook
<Scary_Guy> NSAbook works too
<gamerchick02> Scary_Guy, i didn't know you were a dj. that's so cool
<Scary_Guy> well, at least someone thinks so :p
<Scary_Guy> Anyway I'm off to bed, later
<cmaloney> night
<gamerchick02> later!
<jrwren> well, its official... i just finished a season as first robotics coach
<cmaloney> NIce!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-11-20
<_stink_> jrwren++
<cmaloney> Evening
<_stink_> yo
<cmaloney> yo
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-11-14
<Scary_Guy> morning
<_stink_> yo
<cmaloney> morning
<cmaloney> Are we having fun yet?
<jrwren> Adam Scott is.
<cmaloney> ?
<jrwren> bad Party Down reference. Sorry.
<cmaloney> heh
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-11-15
<jrwren> i'm seeing: relocation error: /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libnss_dns.so.2: symbol __resolv_context_get, version GLIBC_PRIVATE not defined in file libc.so.6 with link time reference
<jrwren> on multiple binaries now. not sure if it is a 17.10 upgrade bug or if my system is failing.
<cmaloney> morning
<jrwren> Good morning.
<rick_h> howdy
<cmaloney> How's the day so far?
<jrwren> ugh.
<jrwren> soooo tired of working on this giant feature.
<mrgoodcat> at least you get to work with giants
<mrgoodcat> i have to work with regular people
<rick_h> my day is all messed up because some jealous idiot doesn't like his wife leaving him and decides to shoot up the joint and get school canceled and ...
<mrgoodcat> wait really?
<mrgoodcat> is this a reference i'm missing?
<rick_h> http://www.wxyz.com/news/police-looking-for-suspected-shooter-at-oakland-county-apartment-complex
<rick_h> got a call around 5am from the school that it's cancelled due to this
<rick_h> and so boy is home while I work and I figure out how to tell him he can't go walk over to his friend's house like normal today
<rick_h> so I'm a bit crabby at the world today
<rick_h> of course I look up shooting news and see CA has something going down today
<jrwren> wow, they cancel school for that?
<jrwren> seems like it would be more effective as a community to station a police officer at the school for the day.
<rick_h> I assume most of them are out looking for this guy vs covering the couple dozen schools in the area
<jrwren> I guess its not like these are large urban police forces.
<rick_h> geeze, this CA one sounds really crazy/bad
<jrwren> but wow, the public libray, multiple schools... even LO on soft lockdown. sheesh.
<rick_h> right at the school ugh
<cmaloney> rick_h: Ugh, that's awful. :(
<greg-g> rick_h: CA was yesterday :( the MI sounds like copy-cat/instigated?
<rick_h> greg-g: no sounds like just jealous soon to be ex husband
<rick_h> greg-g: the CA stuff is a lot worse
<greg-g> :(
<greg-g> domestic violence man, such a tell tale sign
<cmaloney> Yeah, no kidding
<Scary_Guy> boy, that PPO sure would have helped.  should have had a shotgun at the ready
<Scary_Guy> still, any loss of life sucks
<Scary_Guy> this is why I advocate for the death penalty, screw that guy.  yeah I know it sounds counter to my previous statement but his life is already lost
<jrwren> eye for an eye?
<greg-g> oh good, here we go :)
<_stink_> popcorn.gif
<Scary_Guy> I'm just saying if we know for certain someone did something that heinous, give that guy a shot in the arm.  of course it should be in the most extreme circumstances only
<greg-g> you're the only one talking :P
<rick_h> how bout them lions...
<jrwren> eh... tough year.
<jrwren> was hoping for better.
<Scary_Guy> https://even-kei.itch.io/bratavism the hell?
<Scary_Guy> (mildly nsfw
<Scary_Guy> )
<cmaloney> morning
<jrwren> hows the bears doing rick_h ?
<rick_h> jrwren: pretty awful.
<jrwren> cmaloney: you already said that. :p
<rick_h> I've given up on football though
<cmaloney> rick_h: ???
<cmaloney> OK, what have you done with rick_h ?
<jrwren> he is into cycling now. pretty soon he'll be going to the redbull events.
<rick_h> hah, no but I did add the redbull channel to the roku
<cmaloney> Oh god
<rick_h> football is too much like boxing these days
 * cmaloney makes a note to mute rick_h during the tour de france. ;)
<rick_h> I can't watch it, kids getting paid too much because they might not live a great life past 40
<cmaloney> rick_h: Thank you
<rick_h> no, forget those street runners with their doping and cheating motors
<cmaloney> That's one of my big peeves with Football
<cmaloney> that and the scads of money and attention paid to it
<rick_h> downhill, enduro or bust...well maybe XC
<cmaloney> rick_h: <3
<cmaloney> That's why I'd watch Rally over Nascar any day
<rick_h> wouldn't want my son playing it, so can't endorse it
<jrwren> this will be rick: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hv_DRJZZ2qI
<rick_h> no, rampage is bat crazy
<rick_h> I don't get that one
<jrwren> omg the first launch in that video!!!!
<rick_h> it's really insane
<jrwren> I'm too scared to do tiny jumps.
<cmaloney> heh
<rick_h> heh, I do tiny jumps, well I will more then the knee heals.
<jrwren> i should get the kid to shoot me doing tiny jumps. I think 2 wheels get off hte ground. I'm not sure. lol, see waht I look like.
<rick_h> but you won't see me on A-line at whistler
<jrwren> i don't know what that means. :)
<rick_h> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJjT3tL_FKk
<rick_h> most famous jump line around
<jrwren> looks FUN
<jrwren> I dunno if I could do it or not.
<jrwren> i mean, you don't HAVE to hit all those jumps.
<rick_h> lol
<cmaloney> jrwren: I think rick_h Knows a good PT if you succeed in your jumping. ;)
<rick_h> here you go, into crabapple ftw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xlpdtl-awB4
<jrwren> those guys are JUST SO FAST
<jrwren> i'd do that at 1/4 the speed.
<rick_h> that's where they do whip-off each crankworks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVGx1ECngqU
<rick_h> fast == speed you need to clear the tables
<jrwren> right.
<jrwren> this is not my kind of biking :
<jrwren> :)
<rick_h> https://youtu.be/Onq4CCuo4Ro?t=48 for speed
<rick_h> the trail peek dudes are so damn fast
<jrwren> that trail looks more my style. I'm just not fast.
<rick_h> yea, they ride some really good stuff
<rick_h> https://youtu.be/e0MGJ3LjGp4?t=48 is so sweet
<rick_h> anyway, no tour de france for me
<jrwren> lol, no, I didn't think you were road biker.
<jrwren> I should get some long sleeves and get out on my bike this weekend. nearly frozen earth is probably nice ride.
<rick_h> went yesterday, good stuff
<rick_h> this weekend isn't looking great though :/
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-11-16
<jrwren> meld sucks and is slow... kdiff3 doesn't have undo.  I guess I'll try p4merge? Are there really no great merge tools, only passable ones?
<cmaloney> If it can't be done using diff and patch it's not worth doing
<cmaloney> also: good morning
<jrwren> well, that simply isn't true.
<jrwren> what happens when your base changes and the patch no longer applies? start over?
<rick_h> sorry, I use meld when I need something more than vimdiff
<rick_h> so nothing better for you, beyondcompare is supposed to be nice but don't have it
<jrwren> maybe I'll try vimdiff.  ugh.
<jrwren> I think this is the largest conflicting merge i've ever done. it always sucks.
<jrwren> oh wow... VS Code detects unmerged changes and offers a beautiful gui.
<cmaloney> Yeah, I use vimdiff as well
<cmaloney> but yeah, things can get messy quickly
<cmaloney> Also I think VSCode is borrowing heavily from Atom  iirc
<jrwren> ugh... some tool I used merged wrong and I'm still recoverying.
<jrwren> gonna be like 8hrs of merging.
<cmaloney> what the hell happened?
<jrwren> just two big changes to the same codebase
<greg-g> are they already committed? Sounds like they're so large a human readable diff is worthless
<jrwren> its not that big. it will get reviewed in gerrit.
<jrwren> its almost like every part of the patch had merge conflict
<greg-g> ahh
<greg-g> and wow, ya'll chose gerrit? we have a love/hate relationship with it here
<greg-g> as most people have with most code review systems
<jrwren> I hate gerrit
<greg-g> :)
<jrwren> but it is what we use.
<jrwren> and its probably better than whatever is in BB
<jrwren> because atlassian is the literal worst.
<greg-g> I tried to get us to migrate to Diffrential (Phabricator) but there was enough crabbiness from oldtimers we didn't
<greg-g> :)
<jrwren> i honestly didn't think atlassian could be that bad until I started using their products.
<jrwren> I guess someone has to give IBM/Rational a run for worst.
<cmaloney> Wow, that's a nice bar
<jrwren> finally done.  WHEW
<jrwren> good times!
<jrwren> only 3.5hrs, not quite as bad as it felt.
<jrwren> and since greg-g asked, the diff is +3255, -115, but 1303 of that +3255 is generated code, so really only +2000 loc
<greg-g> 2000?! still huge
<greg-g> Differential doesn't show diffs that big because it's outside realistic human review
<jrwren> really?
<jrwren> its really not that big.
<jrwren> I mean... mabye that is huge for python or PHP
<rick_h> that's pretty big, I think when we did limits 800ish was as big as we'd allow
<jrwren> but for go, remember 75% of that looks like: if err != nil { return err }
<jrwren> on 4 lines
<rick_h> lol
<greg-g> I forget the line number cut off, but here's their reasoning: https://secure.phabricator.com/book/phabricator/article/differential_large_changes/
<cmaloney> Yipes, taht's a lot of LoC for diffs
<jrwren> its really not that big.
<jrwren> https://lwn.net/Articles/737937/  +3407 -30, for comparison :p
<jrwren> https://lwn.net/Articles/738170/  +3359 -28  for comparison to add all of SMBD to the kernel. LOL
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-11-18
<cmaloney> morning
<jrwren> good morning
<_stink_> yo
<cmaloney> Just took Pixel to the vet for her Rabies booster.
<cmaloney> (yay)
