#ubuntu-uk 2011-09-05
<ball> Does Xubuntu benefit at all from the GPUs in those new AMD APU things?
<ball> (or Unity Ubuntu for that matter)
<ali1234> xubuntu: no
<ali1234> unity: depends if theres a driver same as any video card
<ball> Hmm... okay.
<ball> Wondering what to replace my daughter's PC with.
<ali1234> a pony?
<ball> Okay, I should go and work on this numberplate before it gets too dark
<ball> ali1234: Her birthday's this month and I would have bought her a bicycle, but she's not allowed to ride one at the moment.
<ball> :-/
<ball> Oh well.  I'll probably be back later.
<AirHead> Least this aint taken
<HazRPG> okay... so I just told brasero to burn at 4x speed (DVD) - yet its still writing at 7x - 9.3x (disc supports up to 16x) - is brasero just trying to annoy me?
<MartijnVdS> probably the drive that doesn't support low-speed burning
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: also, DVD writing = CLV (constant linear velocity, changing RPM all the time), high-speed CDs as well
<MartijnVdS> low-speed CD burning is CAV (constant _angular_ velocity, i.e. unchanging RPM)
<MartijnVdS> or was it very-high-speed burning?
<MartijnVdS> one of the two :)
<MartijnVdS> anyway, it's that - CLV vs CAV
<Azelphur> hmm, might buy this http://www.bitcoinclassifieds.net/ad/524_Toshiba_Qosmio_Laptop/ :o
<Azelphur> I have the BTC for it and it looks awesome.
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: iirc, the drive should support low speed burning
<HazRPG> that's the odd thing
<HazRPG> I remember burning at 4x on this drive
<HazRPG> Azelphur: how do you have BTC? o.O?
<Azelphur> I mine?
<MartijnVdS> ALL MINE 8-)
<Azelphur> anyway, havn't slept yet, going to do that now
 * Azelphur waves
<MooDoo> hello all
<tris2468> hiya
<daubers> Morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> meauning.
<tris2468> too early :S
<DJones> Morning all
 * daubers intends to go ask to be taught to paint war hammer miniatures
<daubers> Hooray for days off
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<TheOpenSourcerer> yo brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning TheOpenSourcerer
<popey> Morning all
 * daubers could spend this afternoon on webby type funness
<daubers> o/
 * daubers goes to catch a bus
<MartijnVdS> http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PutOnABus ? :(
<JamesTait> Happy Monday, everyone!
<MooDoo> howdy JamesTait
<bigcalm> Good moaning
<czajkowski> grrrr at lappy, it keeps saying it needs to report an issue, but doesn't tell me what;s failing and when I click report DIDDLY SQUAT happens
<gord> i have a deep hate for apport
<czajkowski> gord: well this is oneiric I upgraded expected *some* issues but this is being bloody annoying
<czajkowski> if I click anything it appears
 * TheOpenSourcerer noticed that trying to run skype on Oneric (so it run minimised to system tray) fails. On each login the skype gui opens.
<jpds> czajkowski: It's trying to report a user error?
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: I think there is something in the oneiric release notes about skype
<MooDoo> yup it doesn't work :D
 * TheOpenSourcerer goes to google.
<gord> czajkowski, yup, something crashed a long time ago, but apport notices you are around so thinks "hey lets give the user an error report" - least thats what happens to me
<gord> then nothing happens because apport hates us
<AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricOcelot/TechnicalOverview/Beta1#Installing_the_correct_skype_package
<gord> i just disable apport, i know how to file bugs
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: That is different I think. Skype works (Oneric is on my little Eee PC and 32bit).
<TheOpenSourcerer> It just opens full screen rather than just the icon on the top bar.
<AlanBell> yeah, it is not quite right, I just recalled seeing something as I skimmed the notes
<czajkowski> gord: indeed it won't bugger off and die either
<AlanBell> it really makes oneiric a bit untestable
<AlanBell> global menu keeps coming and going, the screen jiggles about, you can't click on things and apport is constantly popping up and being useless
<HazRPG> hey all \o
<MartijnVdS> \o haz
<brobostigon> morning HazRPG
<HazRPG> brobostigon: morning :)
<brobostigon> :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: :) \o
<HazRPG> Seems people didn't like my tutorial on using irc through empathy
<HazRPG> it wasn't meant to be a "Empathy is amazing! Use it for IRC!" type video, it was just meant to be a "if you want to use empathy for irc, then this is how you do it..."
<HazRPG> oh well
<TheOpenSourcerer> Love the Freddie Mercury Doodle on Google today: http://www.google.co.uk/
<HazRPG> TheOpenSourcerer: Hehe, I spotted it last night on .co.nz ;)
 * czajkowski kicks apport 
<czajkowski> fecking work
 * TheOpenSourcerer is surprised czajkowski isn't kicking people rather than inanimate collections of code ;-)
<jpds> czajkowski: /etc/default/apport
 * MooDoo wants to be beaten by czajkowski he's a sucker for punihement
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: nobody here to kick
<jpds> czajkowski: Then /kline them.
<czajkowski> nods
<czajkowski> thsnkd jpds
<LewisCawte> hmm, when did I set that meeting for... should probably add it to my calendar..
<evilchristel> MooDoo: i say!
<MooDoo> evilchristel: what do you say?
<MooDoo> ;)
<evilchristel> :P
<czajkowski> MooDoo: you are a glutten for punishment
<MooDoo> czajkowski: i know, must like you or something ;)
<MooDoo> evilchristel: :P back :D
<evilchristel> hehe
<evilchristel> MooDoo: may i suggest that you go see a film in november?
<MooDoo> evilchristel: what film?
<evilchristel> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1822203/fullcredits#cast
 * evilchristel shhows off a bit
<evilchristel> (http://www.imdb.com/video/wab/vi1450220569/ for trailerage)
<evilchristel> and ill have you know that the post-editing is being done using free software
 * evilchristel nods
<czajkowski> :)
<MooDoo> cool :D
<AlanBell> o/ evilchristel
<evilchristel> hellooo AlanBell \o/
<AlanBell> for those who missed it so far . . . http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1257/detail/
<AlanBell> top tip, before raging at the brokenness of pulse audio, check you have the microphone and headphone plugs in the right sockets
<MartijnVdS> On oneiric, flash is broken again wrt pulse
<MartijnVdS> you can either play sound through pulseaudio, OR have audio in flash
<MartijnVdS> not both at the same time
<LewisCawte> And that you don't have stuff muted in your sound preferences... that happens automaticly whenever I plug in stuff (strange...)
<Laney> "When/if you show up, you agree to the Ubuntu Code of Conduct.", weird
<davmor2> morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<davmor2> MooDoo: morning dude
<davmor2> morning czajkowski how's life?
<MooDoo> davmor2: how are you bud?
<czajkowski> davmor2: ello
<tris2468> hey people
<davmor2> MooDoo: Tell your missus to get a move on or I'll lose out on the baby pool ;)
<davmor2> MooDoo: I'm good dude nicely rested but not enjoying my inbox :(
<evilchristel> gosh, she still hasnt hatched?
<MooDoo> davmor2: pmsl
<popey> twitter seems broken, i typed in the web interface but clicking the button does nothing
<MooDoo> evilchristel: nope, 5 days over now
<popey> my tweet doesn't post
<popey> pffft
<popey> reload page works
<davmor2> MooDoo: I've got +7 and 2 hours in the baby pool  so around 2 am in two days would be good ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: it's got to be before sat....got to be
<popey> MooDoo: tried curry / washing the car / painting / sex ?
<MooDoo> popey: yes all those...
<MooDoo> stubborn little tyke just doesn't want to come out
<popey> my mother in law was induced by car washing, my son was induced by painting
<MooDoo> i just don't want them born on sat as that is number 1 son's 3rd birthday
<MooDoo> him/her
 * Myrtti shakes head and goes to make tea, giggling
<DJones> MooDoo: A neighbour had a baby girl on sunday morning, she was about a week late, saturday was the neighbours 21st birthday, baby arrived about 3am on sunday morning
<popey> my kids birthdays are a week apart
<popey> Son is 5 tomorrow :D
<bigcalm> Mine is 3 days after my sister's
<MooDoo> my wife's is 20 mins before mine :D
<davmor2> popey: and you still forget when they are, man you're an evil dad ;)
<Myrtti> well I guess this would make organizing Ubuntu UK pubnights easier
<Myrtti> "In September, can't do, our kids have their birthdays"
<AlanBell> they should put some better stuff on the telly at christmas really
<MooDoo> lol
<bigcalm> :D
<LewisCawte> Christmas TV used to be good... theres never any films on anymore
<DJones> LewisCawte: Thats because they've already been broadcast by Sky during the year, so definately very little in the way of new blockbusters
<Myrtti> there used to be a musical or a really good film on in Finnish tv after midnight on the 23rd of December
<LewisCawte> ah, well they should put Myhtbusters christmas specials on BBC1 then :P
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinner_for_One ?
<LewisCawte> Really not wanting to go back to school... just seen my timetable for the year
<Myrtti> since the Christmas dinner is on 24th here, people bake the Christmas Ham on the 23rd/24th
<Laney> Christmas Ham... sounds nicer than turkey
<evilchristel> most things are nicer than turkey!
<Myrtti> MartijnVdS: that they show on new years
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: Strange custom, that :)
<bigcalm> evilchristel: Greece?
<evilchristel> badumtisch
<bigcalm> Thank you, I'm here all week
<Myrtti> try the fish
<MooDoo> evilchristel: why are you evil today?
<evilchristel> sometimes you just wake up in a devilish mood
 * evilchristel tickles MooDoo 
<MooDoo> evilchristel: you can stop that now....*giggle*
<evilchristel> :P
<Featurefreak> hi guys.. was trying to listen to a radio stream in DeaadBeef, anyone used deadbeef?
<Featurefreak> add Llocatoin it just doesn't seem to like the url, banshee has no problem with it, but i want deadbeef, much lighter
<popey> never heard of it
<Featurefreak> dnbradio works, but everadio isn't working
<Featurefreak> dnb is an msu url, eve-radio is a listen.pls
<Featurefreak> maybe it just odesn't support pls..
<Featurefreak> http://deadbeef.sourceforge.net/
<Featurefreak> just for your interst
<Featurefreak> i have to say i like it.
<Featurefreak> so far anywa, other than this pls issue
<popey> look lean
<Featurefreak> yup, great for my Eeepc
<Featurefreak> was doing a search for lightweight players yesterday, so far this one is onhe surface the best i've tried
<Featurefreak> Guayadeck is another
<Featurefreak> and one other i tried.. what was it..
<Featurefreak> I was blown away at how HEVAY Exaile is
<Featurefreak> wrose than rhythmbox or banshee on ram
<MartijnVdS> and those are hogs already
<Featurefreak> yups
<Featurefreak> that's why i'm looking for a banshee alternative
<MartijnVdS> rhythmbox :)
<brobostigon> VLC :)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alan Bell] Open Source Sells Planes - http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2011/09/05/open-source-sells-planes/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=open-source-sells-planes
<Featurefreak> MartijnVdS: it's no better than banshee
<Featurefreak> 6 months old, but shows the releative weightiness of 5 players according to this guys tests anyway. http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/12/omg-5-five-lightweight-music-players/
<Featurefreak> and there was one i saw with a screen grab of system monitor with amarok, rhythmbox banshee Exhail(or is it Exaile) and a few others
<Featurefreak> rhythmbox is supprisingly no better than banshee according to that
<Featurefreak> and Exaile(yeh i thinks that was it) wwas almost another 50% ram on top of those
<Featurefreak> pitty, i like python
<MartijnVdS> have yo utried quodlibet?
 * Featurefreak eye's his as yet unread Wrox C++ professional book
<MartijnVdS> mpd + mpc?
<Featurefreak> quodlibet,, hmm, searching
<MartijnVdS> guayadeque - lightweight music player
<Featurefreak> yup, looked that up, but not sure it's as light as DeadBeef, or as feature rich, though i've not finished trying it out yet
<Featurefreak> mpd mpc looks interesting,,
<Featurefreak> just when i tried DeadBeef, it's options were just very well thought out
<Featurefreak> made more sense than anything else so far
<Featurefreak> trying out mpd+mpc, guayadeque, deadbeef and maybe one more, if anyone has a suggstion,, i'll post something about my tests on my massively neglected blog
<MartijnVdS> Not quodlibet?
<Featurefreak> oh, soryr, yeh, i'll keep that one in the list
<Featurefreak> hmm, lot of packages for that one, quote fragmented packaging
<MartijnVdS> why?
<MartijnVdS> apt-get install quodlibet
<MartijnVdS> done
<Featurefreak> mm, quote=quite
<Featurefreak> wee, more dist-packages noise in my python path
<Featurefreak> MartijnVdS: yes i know
<Featurefreak> MartijnVdS: just saying it pulled 12 packages, as opposed to the normal 1 or 2 at most
<Featurefreak> lotta python, not holding out hope for it's efficiency here.
<MartijnVdS> Featurefreak: it's fast and doesn't keep everything in memory
<MartijnVdS> that counts as "small" to me
<Featurefreak> sure, just saying.
<Featurefreak> i'm being all judgy cause this is my test, and i'm gonna be hyper critical, just cause i can :)
<Featurefreak> hmm, quodlibet, mpd+mpc, Deadbeef, guayadeque,, one more? can't write a blog post that's not "list of 5 xyz's"
<czajkowski> http://likeknow.com/ *sigh*  really in this day and age :/
<Featurefreak> czajkowski: hehe, flashblock is doing a number on that site.
<czajkowski> I don't see it as being funny
<Featurefreak> what? the message of it's ok to copy pastte code that you don't fully understand and expect to be ok to submit as work?
<Featurefreak> I don't see anything wrong with that at alll </sarcasm>
<Featurefreak> hehe, it's funny, my internet speeds up when i /part #ubuntu
<DJones> AlanBell: Another MS dodgy dealing for you from wikileaks http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fr&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http://www.fhimt.com/2011/09/04/microsoft-et-ben-ali-wikileaks-confirme-les-soupcons-d%25E2%2580%2599une-aide-pour-la-surveillance-des-citoyens-tunisiens/
<kvarley> I get "ERROR 1045 (28000): Access denied for user 'root'@'localhost' (using password: YES)" when I try and login to mysql on my machine. what am I doing wrong?
<diplo> kvarley: Incorrect password
<diplo> Or no password set and you are trying to log in with one
<kvarley> diplo: DOH!
<kvarley> diplo: I was one character off getting the pass right! I was confused cos I thought passsword: YES meant I got it right :/
<kvarley> diplo: Sorry for my noobyness! :P
<kvarley> Thank you
<diplo> :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: is it nearly here yet?
<MooDoo> davmor2: no sign yet, only 5 days late...
<davmor2> MooDoo: is it nearly here yet?
 * MooDoo slaps davmor2 
<davmor2> :D man I'm evil
<MooDoo> +1
<czajkowski> really
<czajkowski> you don't say
<davmor2> MooDoo: it was as close to the back of the car chant as I could get it
<MooDoo> lol
<davmor2> czajkowski: no I did say honest it's a few lines up
<czajkowski> no I disgread that as unreadable pixels from you
<czajkowski> hands up who is running Oneiric ?
<davmor2> czajkowski: so how did you know what I said to comment on it :P
<MooDoo> czajkowski: o/
<czajkowski> if so can you right click the trash can as it's been renamed now and click empty, how long before it actually empties
<davmor2> 0/ amounst others
<MooDoo> czajkowski: pretty much straight away, but i'm using SSD so that may be a factor?
<czajkowski> shouldb't be
<czajkowski> on natty it would do it pretty much straight away
<czajkowski> gwibber now showing 106 messages
<czajkowski> can't open still
<czajkowski> :(
<MooDoo> #dontrunthisreally sudo apt-get --purge remove gwibber* ;)
<davmor2> czajkowski: straight away did you hide the popup dialogue by any chance?
<czajkowski> davmor2: I click empthy trash
<czajkowski> trash dialgoue is still up for about 4 mins the decides to empty it
<davmor2> czajkowski: and that throws up a dialogue boxes asking for confirmation
<czajkowski> davmor2: aye not yet it hasn't
<davmor2> czajkowski: then you broke oneiric works fine here
<czajkowski> *mutters
<Featurefreak> mmmm, oneirik,, 1 month,, looking forward to new unity
<czajkowski> how do I file a bug against trash
<davmor2> czajkowski: it works for everyone else in the entire universe so it's only you I'm afraid :P  bug == fix release confiscate all of czajkowski computers :D
<czajkowski> davmor2: don't tempt me
<czajkowski> I've had about 3 regression bugs so far
<czajkowski> and 3 non workings
<czajkowski> ok have to get ready
<czajkowski> back later folks
<Featurefreak> czajkowski: dmesg or syslog or anything intersting when you click or when it finishes it's 4minute wait?
<davmor2> czajkowski: works fine here, seriously.  Have you updated this morning?
<czajkowski> davmor2: yes
<czajkowski> and all weekend during the UGJ when I was working on stuff
<czajkowski> toodles
<czajkowski> back later
<kazade> o/
<daubers> o/
<dogmatic69> o/
<The_Fred> hi
<diplo> Thought the channel had gone quite
<diplo> My ssh connection had dropped :P
<diplo> quiet*
<MooDoo> lol
<MooDoo> although it is quiet too
<The_Fred> Does anyone know if xdotool works withhhhhhhhhhunity?
<diplo> Hadn't seen anything since 1pm but not taken much notice either
<The_Fred> *curses stupid usb keyboard
<diplo> and thought i'd say afternoon, and had a broken pipe :)
<The_Fred> I'll try again: Does anyone w if xdotool works with Unity?
<daubers> !info xdotool
<lubotu3> xdotool (source: xdotool): simulate X11 keyboard/mouse input. In component universe, is extra. Version 1:2.20100701.2961-3ubuntu1 (natty), package size 35 kB, installed size 116 kB
<The_Fred> thanks daubers
<daubers> The_Fred:  No idea :) Don't see why it wouldn't if it's working at the X layer
<The_Fred> ah! I though Unity was a complete re-wor from X..... good to know - cheers
<daubers> Nope, it's essentially a set of compiz plugins (fwiu)
<The_Fred> Does anyone else have problems with usb keyboards getting confused when typing quickly?
 * The_Fred listens to the roar of silence
<diplo> Nope not really The_Fred
<diplo> cheap one ?
<The_Fred> yea
<diplo> I use Dell/MS ones and never had an issue
<The_Fred> This is some sub Â£10 BUSH keyboard from Argos...
<diplo> But... cheap Kensington one I used to have may have been problematic but not used it in years
<The_Fred> I was told that the firmware of USB keyboards can be re-flashed, but I've no idea where to get a better .hex file to upgrade this one...
<diplo> The_Fred: I can say I have never tried, I'd just get a better keyboard ?
<diplo> :)
<ali1234> what's a name for free bundled software that the OEM was paid to include?
<The_Fred> I'll see what I can do, and maybe post a 'how-to'...
<The_Fred> ali1234, bloat?
<MooDoo> ali1234: bundled software i would say
<ali1234> i need a snappy word for it
<ali1234> that is derogatory but not offensive
<ali1234> bloatware is not really specific enough
<The_Fred> ali1234,  about proprietary payload?
<MooDoo> don't think there is one, it's always been bundled software
<ali1234> i want to say crapware but i don't want to put a swearword in a professional document
<ali1234> but i still want to use rhetoric lol
<The_Fred> ha
<DJones> ali1234: Have you seen http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-installed_software
<ali1234> yes i am reading it now
<DJones> I like "Craplets"
<The_Fred> hahaha
<DJones> Shovelware :)
<daubers> Dunno why, but opera seems quite appropriate when it's hammering down with rain
<The_Fred> blobware?
<MooDoo> DJones: you don't like non linux stuff do you :)
<ali1234> shovelware was another one i tried but it doesn't really mean the same thing
<DJones> MooDoo: I wouldn't say that, I just don't use it if I don't have to, if it works, does the job efficiently and properly, I don't have anything against it
<dogmatic69> anyone know that site you can visit and it shows os / browser etc
<DJones> dogmatic69: http://www.quirksmode.org/js/detect.html
<dogmatic69> it was a bit more than that
<dogmatic69> for dumb users to help sys admins etc
<DJones> dogmatic69: You mean, Admin speaking to user "What browser are you using", reply "Google" As my dad keeps saying whether he's using Chrome/Firefox/IE etc
<dogmatic69> yes
<dogmatic69> send them to site xyz prints out all web2.0 browser, os, screen size etc etc
<DJones> One of these days, I'll change his search engine to bing to confuse him
<dogmatic69> omg. why did you change my OS
<The_Fred> dogmatic69, would wolframalpha be the one to use? they have all kinds of sts
 * The_Fred *stats
<dogmatic69> The_Fred: its a purpose made site
<The_Fred> Is anyone else here now going to be taking Stanford Uni's free course in A.I. ?
<AlanBell> ali1234: the retailers call it a supplimental revenue opportunity
<ali1234> ha ha that's perfect
<AlanBell> for the kickbacks from the trials
<AlanBell> we were telling a major high street brand about the awesomeness of pre-installed Ubuntu
<AlanBell> and that we had no silly trial copies of software, office suites, anti-virus etc.
<AlanBell> we include everything, full versions
<AlanBell> "where are my supplimental revenue opportunities then?"
<AlanBell> huh??
<ali1234> that's not really the same thing
<AlanBell> different part of the chain, but same motivations
<AlanBell> they were mad about Kaspersky anti-virus
<popey> good kickback?
<AlanBell> I asked if it was better than others
<AlanBell> yes, about double the kickback
<popey> fancy that
<AlanBell> they didn't even register that there was another way to measure "good"
<popey> with the low profit margin on hardware, its not surprising they seek revenue streams elsewhere
<AlanBell> indeed, the lack of trialware and general crapware in Ubuntu makes it hard to get pre-installed
<AlanBell> basically on an average PC the cost of windows is offset by the revenue from the crapware
<popey> is there a kaspersky for linux? ;)
<AlanBell> there is now, yes
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jonathan Riddell] Bazaar Explorer Talk in 2 hours - http://blogs.kde.org/node/4475
<diplo> there has been Kaspersky for linux for some time, I used to use it on our linux servers
<davmor2> AlanBell: The Cask is a good call for a pub in London after being there myself :)
<davmor2> AlanBell: although the Wifi sucks and it's loud so more drinking and shouting than talking unless you take over the PUB :)
<suprengr> ...and - at last - the truth we all knew http://activepolitic.com:82/Outside_News/9720.html
<popey> bah
<bigcalm> Humbug
<davmor2> popey: put that sheep down you don't know where it's been
<suprengr> bigcalm, take that mint out of your mouth, you don't know where it's been
<suprengr> thinking of identities: definiton requested - in Ubuntu-UK's terminology - when a 'LUG' is mentioned, would that be a *Linux* User Group or a *Local* User Group [as in a group for local *Ubuntu* users]?
<jpds> suprengr: Linux.
<popey> Linux
<jpds> suprengr: Local User Group is LoCo team.
<popey> !LUG
<lubotu3> Lug's are Linux User Groups. You can find your local group here: http://www.linux.org/groups/
<popey> :D
<suprengr> ok -I got the hint
<suprengr> ;D
<popey> home time
 * suprengr spots popey  leaving work early
<DJones> popey: part timer
<gr33npeace> afternoon all... I'm trying to recommend ubuntu to a spanish speaking friend... is ubuntu.com available in Spanish?
<The_Fred> try google translate???
<gr33npeace> I couldn't see an option to change the language on the website!
<gr33npeace> The_Fred: thanks... but have you ever used Google Translate to translate technical information??  :)
<DJones> gr33npeace: This might help (I think its more the loco channel though) http://www.ubuntu-es.org/
<The_Fred> yea, I know - but it was just a quick suggestion
<gr33npeace> The_Fred: hehe, no worries... appreciate it!
<The_Fred> gr33npeace, np, its all good
<gr33npeace> DJones: thanks, I'll check it out!  Was really surprised that the main website doesn't have a language switcher!
<ali1234> i am surprised by this too
<ali1234> maybe we should open a bug report
<jml> app dev week starting right now
<ali1234> what's that?
<jml> indeed!
<jml> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuAppDeveloperWeek
<jml> Ubuntu App Developer Week is a week of sessions aimed at enabling and inspiring developers to write applications that scratch their itches.
<DJones> gr33npeace: Just asked the question, ubuntu.com isn't available in spanish, the website I suggested was the one thats just been suggested to me
<gr33npeace> DJones: thanks mate, I've directed him straight to the download page on ubuntu.com and passed him the link to the community as well
<gr33npeace> DJones: interestingly the installer works nicely and detects your language using your IP address (if on a wired connection)
<popey> \o/ home
<Myrtti> oh boy
<Myrtti> the whole Queen at Wembley is in Youtube â¥
<brobostigon> Myrtti: link please. :)
<Myrtti> http://www.youtube.com/user/queenofficial (or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPUqQrMEs2Y )
<brobostigon> thank you Myrtti :)
<jacobw> Myrtti: :D
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti++
<davmor2> I'm going to watch it on dvd after I think :)
<jacobw> lol @ freddie's yodelling
<oly> hi, guys i am after a signed certificate any recomendations ? or anyone doing it for free ?
<MartijnVdS> Not diginotar :)
<MartijnVdS> oly: do you mean certificate for a website, or a PGP/GnuPG key?
<oly> currently been doing self signed google results in a free free ones but not sure if there legit :p
<oly> certificate for a website
<MartijnVdS> oly: if you register your domain with gandi.net, they'll give you a certificate free for a year
<oly> to get rid of the my website is untrusted error :p
<oly> the domains are already registered
<MartijnVdS> oly: also, certificates start at around Â£10/year
<oly> yeah i saw 123reg doing them for Â£10 a year
<MartijnVdS> Stick to a well-trusted party to get your certificates
<oly> yeah that was my main intrest is are there any free trust worthy ones :p
<MartijnVdS> not really, no
<MartijnVdS> oly: I know these are good -- http://www.networking4all.com/en/
<oly> cheers MartijnVdS will check them out
<MartijnVdS> they're a bit more expensive than Â£10
<MartijnVdS> but they're _good_ and give a lot of support
<MartijnVdS> Worth it if you're selling stuff through that web site
<MartijnVdS> oly: http://www.networking4all.com/en/ssl+certificates/wizard/site/no+ev/no+company/no+mobile/no+san/no+wildcard/no+sgc/one+server/ -- cheapest option (least features)
<oly> mobile device support ? surely thats the same as any other browser :p
<MartijnVdS> oly: Mostly, but some mobile devices don't include CAs
<MartijnVdS> not all common ones, anyway
<oly> ah did not realise that
<MartijnVdS> well back in the WAP days, phone memory was precious
<MartijnVdS> also, if it's for some private thing, go for the cheapest
<MartijnVdS> if it's for a company/work, go with something better/more expensive (fewer "lost visitors" and if you go for EV certs, also a cool nice green address bar)
<oly> yeah it private mainly / testing got my own email server and website but its all using self signed so you get those annoying messages
<MartijnVdS> I used the free one I got with my domain for my NAS :)
<oly> i hate the fact i need to pay though just to prove my site is trusted to a browser i only want the encryption :p
<jacobw> you don't have to
<oly> well you do to get rid of the browser warning else anyone i give a link to get told my sites may be untrustworthy
<MartijnVdS> you can make your very own CA
<MartijnVdS> and add it to the "trusted CAs" list of your browser/system
<MartijnVdS> but it's more hassle :)
<oly> yeah and only works for me :p
<oly> always seemed a bit silly, why does making a website encrypted magically make it untrustworthy, i dont get warned google may be untrustworth if i access it as http://www.google.co.uk/
<MartijnVdS> yeah with the whole DigiNotar hack that's now surfacing (after 2 months!) people might start looking for better ways to model trust
<oly> i can hope :)
<MartijnVdS> but that doesn't help you _now_ :)
<oly> nope, will have to just get a certificate :)
<ali1234> what you should actually do is give your users the right certificate to install in their browsers
<ali1234> this is especially what banks should do as well
<ali1234> banks should all be self signing their webpages
<oly> but my users would be friends and family not like an organisation where i can deploy one out to everyone
<ali1234> so in other words they are getting something for nothing?
<ali1234> then if they don't like it, they know what to do :)
<ali1234> anyway the point is the problem isn't the ssl model of trust
<ali1234> the problem is users don't understand it, and the websites don't want to educate them on how to use it properly
<ali1234> so we end up with a few root certificates that everyone uses, which makes a single point of failure
<oly> i guess thats the thing its not the trust part its the encryption, why cant you use encryption with out trust with out the warning
<ali1234> that is also part of the problem
<ali1234> but there is good reason
<ali1234> when you visit an encryted web page you have no pre shared key
<ali1234> so an attacker ca easily do a mitm attack on you
<ali1234> since the mitm is the only one who could snoop the connection anyway
<ali1234> this would make https sites completely pointless
<ali1234> so really if you want that you might as well just turn off encryption
<oly> yeah i get your point, still annoying though
<ali1234> the only solution is a really easy method for swapping certificates that any joe random can do
<ali1234> inegrate it on facebook or something
<oly> hum, interesting idea social trust network sort of thing
<ali1234> not really
<ali1234> its just about getting people the keys
<oly> why not, i mean like i create my certificate put it on a site and it distributes to other people that i trust ?
<oly> then they would not get the warning
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> you give your certificate (the public part) to everyone
<ali1234> the thing is the certs don't model the web of trust
<ali1234> they only verify identity
<ali1234> it's still up to the user whether they trust the person or not
<oly> okay think i get you,
<ali1234> if people understood this, it wouldn't matter if the certificate houses would sign certs for "mr bankrobber"
<ali1234> as long as they didn't give him a cert in the name of barclays or whatever, which is what happened here
<ali1234> because merely having a signed certificate is not supposed to prove you are trustworthy
<ali1234> just that you are the person the cert says you are, good or bad
<AlanBell> mmm evilcookies
<zleap> hello
<jacobw> hi
<zleap> trying to get my head round the xchat program in 11,04  seems quite a few of the options are possibly hidden somewhere
<popey> thats xchat-gnome I suspect
<popey> it's a dumbed down xchat
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> ah no wonder i can't find stuff,
<MartijnVdS> I wonder what they'll strip for xchat-gnome3
<popey> channels
<popey> you'll start it and it will autojoin one giant channel called #gnome-love
<zleap> i thought it was simplky goingto be xchat but using the gnome libs etc
<zleap> popey, a good idea would be having auto join #ubuntu
<popey> uhm
<popey> no
<zleap> ok
<popey> it auto joins your localised ubuntu channel
<zleap> yeah
<popey> you dont want lots of non-en speaking people dumped in an en-only channel
<zleap> i was going to suggest that too,  have it auto detect where you are and auto join accordingly
<popey> it does exactly that
<popey> AIUI
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> maybe i need to install xchat too
<popey> haha
<popey> nope
<popey> It's dropped me in #ubuntu
<popey> thats not optimal
<zleap> its things like this that make it very hard to write docs for people on how to joiin a channel e.g the local lug channel
<popey> dont use a client, point them at webchat?
<popey> http://webchat.freenode.net/
<zleap> i do but its helpful to help them set up xchat sometimes
<popey> http://webchat.freenode.net?channels=ubuntu-uk&uio=d4
<zleap> but I can do that at physical lug meets
<zleap> ohh thanks i can add that to my website
<popey> yeah, you can embed it in a page too
<zleap> ohh
<popey> http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/live/ like that
<zleap> that would be useful
<popey> it seems I was wrong, it does put you in #ubuntu, not #ubuntu-xx, sorry zleap
<zleap> popey, no probs
<zleap> is it possible to do that,  auto connect to a local channel
<jacobw> lol @ reetleet.org
<jacobw> very possible
<zleap> join #dclg
<zleap> join #dcug
<zleap> sorry about that typed /server instead of /newserver
<zleap> hi balor
<zleap> hi krimzon
<KrimZon> hi
<zleap> well that was a waste of time,  i connect to my local lug channel and its hardly active
<popey> heh
<daubers> ewvening
<popey> lo
<daubers> How goes the rest of the world this evening?
<zleap> good
<daubers> Excellent
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Five Years At Canonical - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/09/05/five-years-at-canonical/
<gord> having a hard time convincing a friend of mine to get a revo... he keeps talking about getting some terrible WD thing
<StevenR> gord: revo? little atom computer thing?
<gord> yup
<StevenR> WD thing?
<gord> they make for excellent media players with xbmc
<gord> WD live or something like that, i don't know, its WD and its cheep so it'll break within a yera
<gord> year*
<StevenR> ahh
<StevenR> :(
 * StevenR uses mythtv instead :)
 * tris2468 loves mythtv
 * funkyHat is probably going to be using mythtv soon. Need to find a good tuner card though
<funkyHat> I found a dual hauppage one but I couldn't find it listed on the linuxtv wiki
<StevenR> funkyHat: which?
<StevenR> the nova dvb thing?
<funkyHat> Hang on
 * StevenR uses a couple of usb ones....they work reasonably
<tris2468> i ahve 4 tuners on mine all able to do 5 from the dmux, so can record 15 chnnels at a time
<StevenR> tris2468: umm.. how does that work? 4x5 is 20....
<tris2468> yeah... one of them isnt working
<StevenR> ahh
 * StevenR has 2x2
<funkyHat> StevenR: yeah, that's the one http://www.ebuyer.com/113962-hauppauge-wintv-nova-t-dvb-t-digital-freeview-usb-tv-tuner-stick-294
<funkyHat> huh... perhaps not. I see no mention of dual channels on there :/
<StevenR> funkyHat: that's what I use, it's only a single tuner, but you can record multiple streams from the same mux
<TheOpenSourcerer> tris2468: Out of interest what card do you use?
<StevenR> funkyHat: I have two of them
<funkyHat> I don't know what that means, but ok :D
<tris2468> TheOpenSourcerer: ooh two are built into the Acer Aspire Idea 510, other is a dual USB hauppuage Nova stick thing
<TheOpenSourcerer> cool. thanks.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Have been contemplating building a tv box thingy for ages...
<StevenR> funkyHat: digital TV in the UK is transmitted as 6 multiplexes. You tune the device's radio receiver to a multiplex, and then select one or more digital channels out of that
<StevenR> funkyHat: so I can record bbc1 and bbc2 at the same time on one tuner, but I need two tuners to get bbc1 and itv2 for example
<funkyHat> Only issue is I don't know if we can get freeview with our aerial... we're just using free satellite channels at the moment (well, we also have cable -_-)
<ali1234> technically speaking each mux is a mpeg transport stream with multiple program streams
<funkyHat> Ideally I'd like to replace both the sky box and the cable box but dvb-(c|s) cards I've found have been very expensive
<hamitron> ali1234: how do-able to record everything?
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> extremely
<ali1234> trivial in fact
<ali1234> all you need is 6 tuners
 * hamitron doesn't want to sound greedy
<StevenR> and lots of disk
<ali1234> BBC did it 6 years ago using linux and a raid
<mgdm> someday it'll be doable with one nice big software-defined radio \o/
<ali1234> recorded everything for 1 week
<ali1234> mgdm: no, you still need 6 radios
<mgdm> ali1234: Yes, just now. Not once SDRs with enough bandwidth exist.
<hamitron> how many Gb per day?
<diplo> evening all
<funkyHat> So is mythtv smart enough to figure out all of the dmux switching stuff for me, I can just plug in a couple of tuners and let it do the rest?
<ali1234> hamitron: each mux is 26mbit/s
<StevenR> funkyHat: you plug in tuners, tell myth to scan for stuff
<ali1234> funkyHat: yes, it knows how to optimize the tuners to record multiple programs
<funkyHat> Cool â¢)
<funkyHat> Anyone using cable or satellite tuner cards?
<tris2468> funkyHat: no i'd love to try though
<hamitron> so i just need a 2Tb disk for each days recording
<ali1234> http://promise.tv/
<hamitron> ?
<StevenR> funkyHat: there's a little bit of work in setting it up, in terms of scanning, etc.... then you jsut say "record all of these shows"
<funkyHat> StevenR: and how is it for watching live tv?
<ali1234> hamitron: about 9TB for 7 days programs
<hamitron> tera bytes?
<ali1234> yes
<StevenR> funkyHat: I can sit on the end of a wireless network and watch tv (I pause it for about 6 secnds on startup to give it some buffer/jitter space, but that's down to the wireless)
<StevenR> funkyHat: it's just tv. just works.
<funkyHat> This will be just on the mythtv server box for the most part, so I'm guessing that's even simpler â¢)
<StevenR> funkyHat: I can watch tv on my pc and laptop at the same time, and record at the same time.
<ali1234> mythtv kind of sucks for livetv
<StevenR> funkyHat: yeah, my pc is my server is my VM host
<ali1234> it works tho
<funkyHat> ali1234: what sucks about it?
<StevenR> funkyHat: you can also set up a one-off recording schedule
<ali1234> the UI is kind of rubbish
<ali1234> setting up remote control is arcane
<ali1234> hamitron: http://promise.tv/images/prototype_board.jpg
<funkyHat> Well as long as once it's set up with a remote control it carries on working, that's ok
<hamitron> nice
<ali1234> yeah if you have the patience to set up mythtv front end properly it can work really well
<hamitron> once there are 6Tb drives, i may consider
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> suppose 3Tb is fine
<ali1234> hamitron: the thing is, there's no point
<ali1234> because about 2/3 of the channels are shopping channels
<hamitron> I guess
<ali1234> and 1/2 of the rest is 24h pop music
<hamitron> maybe easier to just record everything though
<ali1234> yes, but only for certain channels
<hamitron> set it to rescan channels, record everything
<ali1234> you might want to record the live shopping channels in case something amusing happens
<hamitron> yeh
<gord> convinced the friend to get a revo! by telling him to send it to me so i can set it up and ship to him ;)
<hamitron> ali1234: what is the nice female selling stuff live has an "embarasing" moment? ;/
<funkyHat> gord is gonna keep the revo ;(
<hamitron> if*
<gord> funkyHat, i already have two :P
<hamitron> oh damn, brb
<funkyHat> gord is gonna set up a beowulf cluster of revos ;(
 * hamitron gone
<funkyHat> I can't quite keep a straight face saying beowulf cluster though
<The_Fred> is there a way to adapt an install cd/dvd to copy itself to ram when more than 1Gb of memory is installed to speed up an instal?
<The_Fred> no clues?
<StevenR> oh dear
<StevenR> bah
 * czajkowski offers gord a jammy dodger 
<gord> note to self, buy more jammy dodgers -_-
<hamitron> The_Fred: probably
<The_Fred> hamitron, yea, its ok, good old google....
<hamitron> yeh :)
<hamitron> I did actually show an interest in what you are
<hamitron> but then realised most my systems don't have the mmeory
<hamitron> ;)
<The_Fred> thanks
<zleap> yummy jammy dodgers
<hamitron> :))
<The_Fred> i was installing ubuntu onto a laptop with 2 Gb of Ram, and realised its running off the cd, and i though to myself "why not from all that ram?"
<ali1234> because disk cache
<ali1234> copying it to ram wouldn't gain you anything
<cbx333> hey guys
<ali1234> but it would make the livecd take a lot longer to boot
<cbx333> anyone know anything about ureadahead
<The_Fred> ali1234, ah ok, thanks for that - learn something every day :)......
<cbx333> my pack files are only 600k
<cbx333> why is ureadahead taking 10 seconds during boot :S
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu Membership Process Survey Report and Next Steps - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/09/05/ubuntu-membership-process-survey-report-and-next-steps/
<gord> http://onliveinformer.com/2011/09/04/community-hack-allows-linuxwine-users-to-experience-onlive/ :D
<AlanBell> I should know what onlive is should I?
<ali1234> that thing where you play games over a video stream
<gord> its a neat idea, you don't have to have a powerful system, you just stream the game and send keypresses to their server
<AlanBell> oh, I remember talking about that before it existed
<gord> always thought its the perfect way for ubuntu to get big budget games
<gord> i really want to see onlive in the software centre someday
<zleap> what is onlive ?
<AlanBell> playing games over vnc
<AlanBell> apparently with more success than you would expect
<gord> they put a lot of effort in to reducing latency and its hardware encoded into a video stream, the only problem really is the quality of video, but its not terrible
<zleap> cool
 * popey notes as more interesting that the person who made the video uses unity
<popey> *shock* not everyone switched to xfce
<AlanBell> unity is fine once you fix the app lens :)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Andy Loughran] Ch-ch-ch-changes. - http://zrmt.com/2011/09/05/ch-ch-ch-changes./
<popey> does this mean andylockran works with mez now?
 * The_Fred is away: Gone for Coffee
 * popey looks suspiciously at The_Fred 
<Laney> coffee at this time of night: definitely suspicious
<AlanBell> nice cup of cocoa perhaps
<The_Fred> suspicion? its only coffee
<hamitron> I'll be getting another coffee in a bit
<hamitron> :/
<The_Fred> ha
<hamitron> can't sleep without tbh
<hamitron> ;)
<The_Fred> I've a sleeping proble, sometimes i dont sleep for days on end, other times I can get sleep normally
<hamitron> I have no problem sleeping any time :/
<hamitron> just need coffee to keep the system functioning
<hamitron> cake and biscuits are also nice
<The_Fred> I know that tonight sleep will not happen, so i myt as well stay up and complete some work
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> makes sense
 * funkyHat made a cake today
<hamitron> anyways, brb coffee
<hamitron> :)
<The_Fred> funkyHat, I like cake
<The_Fred> what sort of cake?
<funkyHat> Cake is awesome
<funkyHat> Victoria sponge sandwich cake
<funkyHat> With strawberry jam
<The_Fred> ah, yea, i remeber you mentioning it earlier
<funkyHat> Testing out my new silicone cake "tins"
<The_Fred> Sometimes I bake my own bread, which is very morish
<funkyHat> I haven't tried baking bread yet
<The_Fred> Its worth the effort, esp making a special loaf with walnuts
<hamitron> box of thornton's toffee's completed
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> now I got more desk space \o/
<The_Fred> hehe cool
<The_Fred> ..did you wold the whole lot today?
<The_Fred> *wolf
<hamitron> not sure that sort of "clearing up" that was supposed to be done on my desk though :/
<hamitron> no, I've had them for about a month
<hamitron> :)
<The_Fred> ah!
<hamitron> but eaten half of them today
<hamitron> :/
<The_Fred> talk about gutsy gibbon :-)
<The_Fred> more like a hungry hamitron
<hamitron> :D
<hamitron> I kinda like that
<hamitron> :)
<The_Fred> cool
<The_Fred> AAAaaaaarrrrrrgggh! my android app is spiraling into a complicated unruly mess of methods and object .... all over the place
<The_Fred> tempted to restart
<hamitron> :/
<The_Fred> im trying to run a service which uses the sensors from a timer to mitigate heavy battery useage, and its got a bit thorny
#ubuntu-uk 2011-09-06
<HazRPG> haha, I still think yesterday's google doodle was epic XD
 * HazRPG re-watches video
<HazRPG> http://www.onlive.com/
<HazRPG> bah, wrong box o.O
<JoeyBLINGZ> joey blingz yall
<hoover> good morning
<diplo> Morning all
<christel> morning
<tris2468> hey people
<tris2468> too early again :S
<christel> hehe
<AlanBell> morning
<christel> AlanBell <3
<AlanBell> hardly worth getting up today
<AlanBell> rainy rainy nasty
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning earthlings.
<diplo> More the wind down here AlanBell, rain isn't so bad if it wasn't for the wind! Garden was a right state this morning :(
<tris2468> yeah raining like mad here too
<MooDoo> hello all
<tris2468> heya
<popey> Morning all
<daubers> Morning
<daubers> Seen this? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-14765545
<HazRPG> morning guys :)
<MooDoo> morning
 * HazRPG chews into some fresh bread w/butter
<HazRPG> nom :)
<HazRPG> daubers: interesting read dude
<HazRPG> I've always thought it daft for governments to rely too heavily on proprietary software, when it's the countries money they're spending to do so
<diplo> I agree HazRPG, suppose it's just been ease and what they know
<HazRPG> diplo: true, but you'd think with the sheer size of some of the departments, you'd think someone (even if its just in the IT admin/IT support side of things) ... someone somewhere must be using something open-source of have knowledge of something that could ease the effort to bring in open-sourced software in
<HazRPG> I'll use people I've met, talked with, etc over time in our small city (cumbria isn't big - and even fewer like change here)... I know a very large handful of people that have, know, or seen open-source software somewhere
<HazRPG> I mean most people I know (most of which aren't good with IT) have at least firefox on their systems, out of pure choice and not because someone told them to
<HazRPG> I've seen people who would rather use google docs, etc
<BigRedS> It's worth remembering that free software isn't really free-as-in-free beer from that perspective, either
<HazRPG> BigRedS: exactly, just to know a popular one - Red Hat
<BigRedS> you need to pay for someone to install it and look after it and, typically, those people are more expensive than MS drones, for example
<BigRedS> Even Debian or Ubuntu. They don't just magically start doing what you want them to and never stop
<HazRPG> exactly
<HazRPG> although, to say that support costs for open-source is more expensive isn't always true
<diplo> HazRPG: we were apart from desktops all opensource software
<BigRedS> No, but it's not like you can say "Pah. Â£3M on <some software>. They should have gone open sauce". It's quite possible to spend Â£3M putting an open source, or open source derived, system in
<diplo> But a change in management we went from all to 2 linux servers
<diplo> Also, issues with the likes of FF are locking them to GPO's etc
<diplo> And also ram usage for us was to much, would have killed our Terminal Services, IE was just to well integrated.
<diplo> I was actually looking at trying LTSP at one point, but new management didn't want to because they were scared that they would be to dependant on me and my colleague
<diplo> Even though I wrote good notes / how to's
<diplo> Also something I have found since changing jobs is that there are not a huge group of people like me and my colleagues that will work on what ever is best for thejob
<diplo> My brother for instance is Windows only and sees no place in linux in anything and that it is shit with out even trying it.
<diplo> Argues the point _all_ the time, where as I use wat ever works best for me.
<Mez> yes popey, andylockran does now work with Mez.
<MooDoo> diplo: my parents and sister use windows, and me to be honest, and they see no reason to change at all
<Mez> I don't know who I feel more sorry for. andylockran or the world.
<MooDoo> Mez: andylockran ;)
<diplo> I've nearly talked my dad into changing, he wants to use AutoCAD even though he doesn't *need* it
<BigRedS> Surely there's not a lot you can do with autocad that you don't need autocad for, what's he doing with it?
<HazRPG> diplo: yeah I see what you mean, I use whatever best for a given task too - but your right, there are very few who see it that way
 * BigRedS imagines him making flyers for school fetes in autocad
<HazRPG> diplo: I managed to convert my sister to linux, simply because she respects my judgement more than the fact that its actually good/bad. Plus it means if something goes wrong, she knows exactly who to turn to - even before I converted her to linux, she still used any software recommendations I told her... and didn't mind learning them... in fact sometimes she thanked me for teaching her the new stuff
<BigRedS> My brother's on an endless cycle of getting annoyed enough by Windows to switch to a linux, then getting annoyed enough by Linux to put Windows back.
<diplo> BigRedS: I really don't know, he was a Ship designer before he retired and can't let it go
<diplo> :)
<BigRedS> I think he's borrowing a mac off someone currently
<BigRedS> diplo: haha, so he doesn't actually use it, just feels the need to have it knocking around? :)
<diplo> I can't see what he does use it for
<HazRPG> diplo: I bet you FreeCAD, SagCAD, or similar might just serve him just as easily :P
<BigRedS> Really?
<diplo> Just it's the only software he actually knows inside out, after 20 years with PC's he still types with a single finger
<MooDoo> ah just let him use windows :S
<BigRedS> I've never heard any AutoCAD users get along with any of the other offerings
<diplo> Same here BigRedS, I tried at last place i worked
<AlanBell> wikileaks is awesome blogging material
<HazRPG> AlanBell: indeed :P
<diplo> But like that BBC doc mentioned ( comments ) some of our people wanted Photoshop to edit simple images
<diplo> I said no, just use this or that
<diplo> And then got over ruled by management who didn't know better
<HazRPG> BigRedS: seems like your bother just isn't too keen to try and work out how to fix things, and enjoy doing so rather then getting frustrated with it :P
<MooDoo> diplo: it's their money lol
<diplo> So we wasted nearly 3k on software that would never be used for what it was designed
<diplo> No MooDoo, it was MY bonus :/
<MooDoo> ah!
<HazRPG> diplo: yeah, I read that and lul'd
<andylockran> morning
<BigRedS> HazRPG: no, he doesn't fancy fixing things. He wants to get work done
<diplo> It really really annoyed me, one of the reasons I no longer work they
<BigRedS> That's my thing, too, but I've just learnt to accept what's available :)
<diplo> They have people who knew about it, but wouldn't listen to expertise, just listened to sales men and basically the company is in a downward spiral now
<BigRedS> heh: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=647959
<lubotu3> Mozilla bug 647959 in CA Certificates "Add Honest Achmed's root certificate" [Normal,Resolved: invalid]
<HazRPG> BigRedS: I'm sure most people, given the opportunity, would love things to always just work as they should, but sometimes you have to realise not everything is perfect and you have to learn to solve the issue yourself. :) I'm always reminded of this comic: http://xkcd.com/627/ :P
<BigRedS> Hah, yeah. But some people are annoyed by bad design decisions. He's one of those people.
<BigRedS> He's never going to just 'accept' that it makes sense for, say, apt to sit there downloading for a while and then, only when it's got *everything*, start installing
<diplo> One of the guys I used to work with, he will use wat ever but is stuck with what he knows.. which was RHEL/CentOS and IE/Windows for developing
<MooDoo> I'll use what ever gets the job done :D
<diplo> Last week I eventually got him to try Firefox and a couple of web developing icons
<diplo> And he said 'Bloody hell andy why didn't you tell me about this before'
<diplo> I had been trying for 3-4 years
<diplo> :P
<BigRedS> MooDoo: that is nearly everything, though. The arguments are over how quickly/easily they get the job done :)
<diplo> Also used apt-get for first time last week, he can't believe how much better it was than yum, I'd been trying to convert him to debian at work for years :/
<JamesTait> Good morning everyone!
<MooDoo> BigRedS: depends on what you're used to i suppose!
<andylockran> morning JT
<HazRPG> BigRedS: heh, I always thought that was better - rather then going to site a, or site b for stuff and clogging up folders (or worse my desktop) with installers - its  better to have apt get them, install them... and have them sorted in its cache (and auto remove them if needed)
<diplo> morning JamesTait
<BigRedS> HazRPG: no, that's not the bit he's annoyed about
<BigRedS> He wonders why, when apt's got the first package it doesn't start installing it while retrieving the second
<HazRPG> BigRedS: nothing annoyed me more about windows, then installing something to get the dreaded "dll missing" or "framework missing" message.
<HazRPG> BigRedS: ahhh lol
<BigRedS> And, while you're waiting for the download-everything-then-install-everything, you can't install anything else
<HazRPG> hmm
<BigRedS> whereas with, say, Windows, he just ctrl-A's an entire directory of installers, hits 'Enter' and goes to down fragmenting the hell out of his filesystem
<BigRedS> s/down/town/
<HazRPG> see, this is why I request several things at once when using apt ^_^
<HazRPG> see I never understood why people like to do several things while installing stuff
<BigRedS> well, you do apt-get install [several things] and it wanders off for half an hour
<HazRPG> I'd rather set something up to install, go have a break from the computer, and come back
<BigRedS> and then you remember that there's no vim, so you want to just install it
<BigRedS> but you can't
<HazRPG> that way I don't fragment my hdd too much :)
<BigRedS> ach. fragmentation's part of teh tedium I expect the computer to deal with so I don't have to :)
<HazRPG> BigRedS: heh, you know if it hasn't started installing stuff and its still grabbing them... that you can do CTRL+C (I think it is)... UP... change the command slightly, and it'll resume from where it left off (it won't redownload anything that's already been downloaded - it might have to redownload the previous thing it hadn't finished though)
<BigRedS> yeah
<BigRedS> but it'd be nice if there was a polite way of doing it
<HazRPG> although, once you've gotten to the point of no return (installing stuff) I wouldn't bother till its done
<BigRedS> apt-get -f install && apt-get install [whatever you wanted to add]
<BigRedS> is even less polite than ctrl-cing the download, though
<HazRPG> heh
<HazRPG> see, this is one thing I like about the software centre in some cases... you can queue up several things :)
<gord> the "polite" way is to ues software centre :P
<HazRPG> gord: beat you to it ;)
<gord> i actually really like sc these days, its neat. just wish apt wasn't so darn slow
<hoover> cheers all
<HazRPG> gord: thing about apt I'd like to see, is being able to issue more commands on a different terminal, and have them process into some sort of queue
<HazRPG> hoover: hmm?
<diplo> HazRPG: Like the software centre does
<diplo> It's why I've started using it more
<diplo> So I can queue up things on a fresh install
<HazRPG> diplo: Yeah, I thought I mentioned that :P
<diplo> Really out to roll my own distro/version with everything preinstalled, pretty much use same apps all that
<diplo> ah, hadn't scrolled backup that far :)
<HazRPG> diplo: I use the software centre too on fresh installs - I  use it even more when showing new people ubuntu :P
<diplo> Just wish I could get Natty running nicely on my laptop, keep going back to Win7 as it just works
<HazRPG> diplo: its alright ;)
<diplo> Use ubuntu on my pc here ( this machine ) and lappy at home
<HazRPG> diplo: I've complete disregarded natty as an actual ubuntu distro ^_^
<BigRedS> diplo: I just made a package which depends on everything I want
<diplo> But work laptop I keep going back to windows
<HazRPG> diplo: I feel it's a ME/Vista type thing, and that the next one will rock!
<BigRedS> so I get a new machine, add my repo, apt-get install avi and then I've got everything I need/want
<diplo> Oooh wrote up how you did it BigRedS ?
<HazRPG> BigRedS: interesting, I'll have to remember to ask you about that!
 * diplo would like to read that
<BigRedS> ah, no
<BigRedS> I keep meaning to write a blog post
<BigRedS> maybe that'll be it
<HazRPG> BigRedS: epic :)
<HazRPG> BigRedS: make sure to highlight me if you do :)
<BigRedS> Whoo. I will need reminding :)
<HazRPG> I keep meaning to write a bash script (and store to U1 and Dropbox) which just does the whole install of usual crap for me :P
<HazRPG> BigRedS: either that, or try and add a software centre command line tool ^_^
<HazRPG> imagine being able to just software-centre -q package-name
<HazRPG> where -q would be queue
<BigRedS> HazRPG: well, it is open source :) Is there a command-line software-center?
<BigRedS> and is it called 'software-centre' in en_gb? :)
<HazRPG> BigRedS: I don't think so... but would be cool to add one to it :)
<HazRPG> BigRedS: http://ScrnSht.com/tokbqg
<HazRPG> in the terminal its just "software-center" however :(
<BigRedS> HazRPG: ah yeah, I meant the hypothetical command-line one
<BigRedS> tsk tsk
<HazRPG> http://pastebin.com/FANaLLai
<HazRPG> that's the output of help
<HazRPG> so it does have terminal features, just very few
<HazRPG> I'm sure if some patches were applied into the repo for it, that they might get considered (at the very least)
<HazRPG> also, I don't think it would be too hard to add a terminal alias for software-centre :P
<BigRedS> ahh, so it's just ways to invoke the gui
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alan Bell] If all else fails, switch to Open Source - http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2011/09/06/if-all-else-fails-switch-to-open-source/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=if-all-else-fails-switch-to-open-source
<BigRedS> I'd suggest, though, that in Aptitude we've already got most of what the software-center does, on the terminal :)
<diplo> MooDoo: You are a web dev aren't you ?
<BigRedS> diplo: web devs don't normally admit to being one without first having agreed on a price :)
<diplo> :P
<bigcalm> BigRedS: haha
<bigcalm> I've given up saying that I'm a web dev (oh will you design me a site? Dev not Designer!). These days I'm a programmer
<diplo> Ah bigcalm q for you then.. :P
<diplo> Ever had an issue with onblur/onfocus in IE9
 * bigcalm hisses and makes himself look bigger than he really is
<diplo> :D
<BigRedS> bigcalm: Ah, I get that as a sysadmin :/. Handily, I can respond with "Have you seen my site?" which usually puts them off wanting me to make theirs :)
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> diplo: no, I tend to use jQuery rather than using inline JS
<diplo> Can't seem to find issues or google any help but since IE9 in our search box the 'Product Search' doesn't disappear anymore
<dogmatic69> anyone know why i get the following with tail -f /file.ext tail: cannot watch `/var/log/apache2/error.log': No space left on device
<dogmatic69> /dev/sda1               457643     31670    402727   8% /
<dogmatic69> used : 8%
<bigcalm> Maybe it's run out of swap
<dogmatic69> i have 11gigs of swap, i doubt that
<bigcalm> </clutching_at_straws>
<dogmatic69> :D
 * dogmatic69 will just reboot :/
<ging> maybe there are open files which have been deleted but are still taking up space
<HazRPG> Hmm interesting!
<HazRPG> Didn't even know this existed! http://barcampblackpool.com/
<dogmatic69> free -m says 130mb
<BigRedS> dogmatic69: 11G of swap?
<BigRedS> IIRC, that's a bug in tail but I can't remember what it is
<dogmatic69> ubuntu done that, auto install...
<BigRedS> haha, that's hilarious
<ging> how much ram does it have?
<dogmatic69> 4gig
<dogmatic69> hmm... sudo tail works fine
<dogmatic69> tail dumps some then dies
<dogmatic69> reading a blog, someone posted 'sysctl -w fs.inotify.max_user_watches=16384' as a fix... anyone know what that does?
<diplo> heh dogmatic69 just read same Gentoo post ?
<dogmatic69> ye
<dogmatic69> mine is currently 8k like the post
<dogmatic69> his was the other way round though. sudo was broke and user was fine
<dogmatic69> my sudo is fine
<MooDoo> hmmm i need a new server
<BigRedS> dogmatic69: it increases the amount of people allowed to watch for changes to the filesystem, basically
<BigRedS> so that'd work if the issue is that too many processes are already monitoring the filesystem for changes (things like nautilus do to so as son as you create a directory it can show it, and desktop search wotsits do that too)
<dogmatic69> ah ok
<dogmatic69> so would sudo create more space to watch with?
<dogmatic69> ill just reboot
<dogmatic69> 26 days uptime
<Bomster> Quick Q - Best of a bad bunch, FAT, FAT32 or NTFS?
<Myrtti> ntfs
<Myrtti> depending on setup
<Bomster> Plugging a HDD into a media player to play high def movies
<MooDoo> Bomster: NTFS longer file names as well
<MooDoo> probably fat then
<Bomster> FAT32 has a limit on file names?!
<MooDoo> what's the media player?
<Bomster> FAT has a 4GB file limit though..
<MooDoo> some of them don't like ntfs
<Bomster> Cyclone Micro 2+
<Bomster> it plays nice with ntfs.
<Bomster> Why can't there just be a univeral file format :)
<MooDoo> yes it's go with ntfs then
<Bomster> *:(
<MooDoo> i'd go with
<Bomster> The only hitch is that OS X doesn't play nice with NTFS..
<Bomster> Why can't they just all get along..
<davmor2> morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<MooDoo> davmor2: pool isn't looking to go for you  at the moment ;)
<davmor2> MooDoo: it's only labour that can go on for hours ;) Although I really hope not for your missus sake :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: we think she's in slow labour now.....she's got to see the midwife tomorrow
<davmor2> MooDoo: so perfect then having it tomorrow at 2 am :P
<MooDoo> lol if she does, it will be the same time our first was born
<freckle> hi I have 2 nVidia GEForce GTS 250 but the nvidia driver is only detecting the one card. Anyone got an idea how to fix that?
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jonathan Riddell] Falkirk LUG Talk Tonight - http://blogs.kde.org/node/4477
<diplo> Right, HP claim form filled out and in envelope, now need to remember to post it!
<diplo> only taken a week or so so far :D
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<MooDoo> brobostigon: morning
 * czajkowski slaps davmor2 
<czajkowski> MooDoo: any baby yet ?
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<davmor2> czajkowski: slow labour
<davmor2> czajkowski: here have a big hug for being so lovely :D
<MooDoo> czajkowski: nope no sign
<MooDoo> davmor2: czajkowski is lovely...:)
<czajkowski> MooDoo: do ye know what yer having ?
<MooDoo> czajkowski: no, we want a surprise
<davmor2> czajkowski: In the baby pool I a 2am tomorrow what you going for?
<kvarley> Anybody have any ideas as to why Ubuntu shows my processor clock speed at the stock 2.93GHz per core rather than the overclocked speed which it's set to in the bios?
<MooDoo> does it say anything in /proc/cpuinfo?
<kvarley> MooDoo: The same info as the System Monitor displays
<kvarley> MooDoo: http://kvarley.co.uk/tl_files/temp/Screenshot-System%20Monitor.png
<czajkowski> any idea how I log a bug about apport before I throw my machine out a window...
<shauno> just start it on launchpad rather than going thru ubuntu-bug?   ala https://bugs.launchpad.net/apport/+filebug  ?
<davmor2> czajkowski: why what is wrong with apport?
<shauno> (and if it works, you can use apport-collect bugnumber to fill in the gaps after the bug is created)
<czajkowski> davmor2: it's crashing but I don't know what about and it goes to submit and doesnt go the whole hog
<AlanBell> davmor2: I think it really really hates the respawning processes like global menu
<AlanBell> if the menu goes off on one and crashes and respawns every second 20 times in a row then apport gets in a bit of a fluster
<davmor2> AlanBell: HAHA!  It hates everything! that's it's job being a tell tale :)
<AlanBell> and then apport crashes and hates itself
<AlanBell> it is really bad if you are trying to use the desktop with orca and no monitor
<Myrtti> whoo
<Myrtti> I made a successful omelette for the first time in years
<Myrtti> (and don't ask me how I've done it in the past)
<Myrtti> HUHHUHHUUHHHHUUUUU too much chili in the omelette
<christel> haha
<christel> <3
 * Pendulum hugs Myrtti 
<Myrtti> I have to get Julia Child's legendary book from somewhere
<AlanBell> I have not tried putting chilis in an omlette, but I do crush them on eggs
<AlanBell> sounds like a great omlette Myrtti
<Myrtti> AlanBell: since all paprika and chili both benefit from being heated, it seemed the most natural way
<Myrtti> heat up some oil in the pan, toss in some chopped chili, fry for a while, add egg.
<AlanBell> nom
<AlanBell> just need my hens to start laying
<Myrtti> even ground dry paprika benefits from being cooked in oil for a while before adding more ingredients
 * popey wonders if any minecrafters have a moment to test how many people we can get on a 1.6GHz Atom server :D
<christel> i can global notice and ask for you..
 * christel hides
<popey> haha
<christel> ;)
<popey> join #ubuntu-uk-minecraft if you have 2 mins and a copy of minecraft handy :D
<czajkowski> you're a loonatic
<Myrtti> some LoCo's have team channels and chat channels
<Myrtti> we've got a minecraft channel.
<dogmatic69> still having the tail -f problem even after a reboot
<dogmatic69> :(
<The_Fred_> Afternoon all :-)
<andylockran> howdy
<czajkowski> Myrtti: all about being social
<smittix> Afternoon
<smittix> Back to Sunny England :/
<AlanBell> lovely isn't it
<AlanBell> my garden furniture is being destroyed by the wind :(
<czajkowski> https://twitter.com/#!/se1/status/110987216611848192
<MartijnVdS> yay copper thieves
<daubers> Come up with a solution to that and the railways would pay you a fortune
<BigRedS> electrify it
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS++
<MartijnVdS> Or make it toxic in some way
<AlanBell> switch to fibre optic instead ;)
<popey> diesel
<MartijnVdS> Ink cartridges that stain you (like with money)
<MartijnVdS> unwashable colours etc.
<Myrtti> I need to stop munching these Fudges cheddar wafers
<Myrtti> but they are so decadently good
<TheOpenSourcerer> Any suggestions as to what a "Geek chic" dress code might entail ?
<BigRedS> perl-sloganed t-shirt, trousers with map pockets, hiking boots, black leather jacket and an oddly-masculine ponytail?
<popey> a mullet
<BigRedS> or one of those
<MartijnVdS> neckbeard
<TheOpenSourcerer> A Flying Spaghetti Monster t-shirt?
<diplo> popey: You just after 1 usb car charger ?
<AlanBell> don't think I have ever been chic
<AlanBell> sounds like it is missing a ken to me
<popey> diplo: that specific one, two off probably
<popey> most of them are ~500ma, that one is 1A
 * MartijnVdS has a 1A one
<MartijnVdS> gets the phone really hot
<AlanBell> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geek#Geek_chic
<AlanBell> "come as you are isn't too helpful"
<AlanBell> misplaced close quote
<popey> lol, "See also, OCD"
<AlanBell> my fingers closed it for me
<AlanBell> I was in my jammies when I read the "come as you are" instruction
<diplo> oh right was going to offer you a spare one I have but its 250ma :)
<diplo> So guessing a bit under for you
<diplo> Bought 2 for some reason
<AlanBell> dinner at hogwarts tomorrow http://transfersummit.com/gala-dinner
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: you get invited to all the fancy parties then? :)
<AlanBell> yeah, and I haven't got a thing to wear
<nigelb> AlanBell: Black gown? :)
<AlanBell> LBD
<MartijnVdS> Dress robes?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Still might take my DJ for tomorrow... Just in case.
<andypiper> ooh TheOpenSourcerer AlanBell you going to ts11 as well eh
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yes andypiper You too?
<andypiper> yep
<TheOpenSourcerer> Cool.
 * directhex moos
<TheOpenSourcerer> Going up this evening
<andypiper> ditto... late-ish though I think
<JGJones> Greetings
<DJones> e/lastlog JGJones
<DJones> grr, stupid fingers
 * TheOpenSourcerer doesn't think about asking andypiper for fashion advice ;-)
<DJones> Hi JGJones
<andypiper> good thinking
<andypiper> I have none. I need a lot
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<JGJones> Taking a "break" from writing. It's obvious I haven't really don't any handwriting since leaving school in 1996. Just 1 page of A4 and my hand's sore as hell.
<JGJones> grammar fail
<TheOpenSourcerer> After seeing his hand-writing I think that AlanBell stopped using a pen around age 6.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Would make sense I guess coz when I was 6 computers still hadn't been invented - not with keyboards at any rate.
<JGJones> He must be old then ;-) as I can't even read my granny's handwriting - it's just a wavy line. Although my dad is able to read it with ease. It's just wavy lines...no letter shapes.
<AlanBell> I was indeed using computers age 6
<TheOpenSourcerer> Trying to start a vpn from nm but getting a very unhelpful message "VPN service failed to start". Do I need to be any groups or anything?
<DJones> AlanBell: TheOpenSourcerer http://www.eweekeurope.co.uk/news/uk-government-flounders-in-commitment-to-open-source-38723
<TheOpenSourcerer> DJones: Yep - read them all.
<DJones> :)
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, which type of vpn?
<TheOpenSourcerer> ms pptp I think.
<TheOpenSourcerer> any logging anywhere?
<directhex> maybe in one of the kernel related logs
<directhex> i don't have pptp experience
<directhex> you MS fan you
<TheOpenSourcerer> Bloody customers.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I guess it is an MS vpn anyway. Not much info to go on. A gateway IP, user and pwd.
<MartijnVdS> PPTP is in ppp  logs, if anywhere
<TheOpenSourcerer> There's a bit in syslog but nothing very helpful tbh
<diplo> TheOpenSourcerer: From my experience you have to turn off a lot of settings in options
<diplo> See if I can find settings a mo
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ahh
<TheOpenSourcerer> messages
<TheOpenSourcerer> /var/log/messages
<TheOpenSourcerer> Sep  6 14:08:26 lobsang pppd[8057]: Using interface ppp0
<TheOpenSourcerer> Sep  6 14:08:26 lobsang pppd[8057]: Connect: ppp0 <--> /dev/pts/7
<TheOpenSourcerer> Sep  6 14:08:27 lobsang pppd[8057]: LCP terminated by peer (^VM-^_5}^@<M-Mt^@^@^BM-3)
<MartijnVdS> cool
<diplo> Not got my settings anymore but under advanced settings I had to uncheck most of the boxes in there
<diplo> To get mine to work against a MS VPN
<TheOpenSourcerer> Sep  6 14:12:26 lobsang pppd[8168]: CHAP authentication succeeded
<TheOpenSourcerer> Sep  6 14:12:26 lobsang pppd[8168]: LCP terminated by peer (z*t7^@<M-Mt^@^@^BM-f)
<TheOpenSourcerer> yay!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Had to turn on MPPE by the looks of it
<TheOpenSourcerer> Turned off everything else too - thanks diplo
<diplo> took lots of playing for me as well
<diplo> Didn't seem to be the same for different setups
<diplo> Sucks :(
<popey> I have only just noticed that Windows 7 has Super+(N) (number) to get to the apps on the task bar
<popey> (like what unity has)
<diplo> lol, been using Win7 for a good while now and I didn't know that popey thanks :)
<popey> i hit it by accident
<popey> the fact that I'm running win7 on a mbp means I hit the clover leaf mac key when I meant to hit alt... a lot
<gord> i hit the super key when i mean to hit alt a lot myself, but i think thats more of PEBCAK
 * popey prefers PICNIC
<MartijnVdS> Why does nobody tell me these things? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Reamde-Neal-Stephenson/dp/1848874480 :)
<gord> or PIEPLZ
<andylockran> ls -la
<MartijnVdS> andylockran: .: No such file or directory
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: Easy you don't ask
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: OK. I ordered it anyway :)
<diplo> Good writer MartijnVdS
<diplo> Looking for new books atm
<MartijnVdS> diplo: Yeah, I know... but I didn't know this (new) book was coming out/is out
<diplo> I meant to put a ? at the end
<diplo> Meaning is he good
<diplo> :)
<MartijnVdS> diplo: I think he is
<diplo> Will pop down library on the way home
<MartijnVdS> diplo: If you're not sure, start with Snow Crash, Cryptonomicon is long but good as well.
<MartijnVdS> diplo: The Baroque Cycle takes some stamina but is good as well :)
<MartijnVdS> Anathem, good
<MartijnVdS> This one - I hope good :)
<diplo> Cool thanks
<diplo> Trying to broaden my book reading
<MartijnVdS> diplo: and if you like those books, try http://www.amazon.com/City-End-Time-Greg-Bear/dp/0345448391
<MartijnVdS> Completely weird plot, reviews are bad, but I love it :)
<diplo> Sounds ok, I read a weird one recently.. will dig it out tonight
<MartijnVdS> diplo: If you like weird, try China MiÃ©ville
<MartijnVdS> diplo: he even calls his own books "weird" :)
<diplo> Dont like weird, just seemed to have read a couple recently
<diplo> lol
<diplo> I'm a espionage/war/etc type person really but trying a lot of others
<MartijnVdS> diplo: Then try Cryptonomicon first, then Snow Crash
<diplo> Just logging on to see if they have it now. otherwise I'll forget
<MartijnVdS> diplo: Cryptonomicon is half World War 2 novel, half "modern-day computer nerds with big plans" novel
<diplo> :P
<MartijnVdS> (and yes, the plots come together in the end ;))
<diplo> Not got it at my local library, will order it in
<diplo> cba to drive 12 miles for a book
<diplo> :P
<MartijnVdS> diplo: This is why I love amazon :)
<diplo> Cash is a tad short for me, why i renewed my library card
<MartijnVdS> (Â£5 books vs â¬30 when buying locally)
<diplo> I've got a couple hundred books i've amassed in the last 2 years or so of reading again
<diplo> Really ought to get myself a digital ereader
<bigcalm> I'm going to slap VM in a moment
<BigRedS> VM in being-rubbish shocker?
<bigcalm> The wonderful SuperHub has been restarting itself
<bigcalm> Grrs
<livingdaylight> hi
<livingdaylight> this question is in fact about skype. But relates to Pulseaudio. I want to disable the audio alerts, but see no option for that in skype's options
<livingdaylight> Is there somewhere else I can turn skype down?
<livingdaylight> sound preferences under applications shows me some things but not 'skype'
<Azelphur> livingdaylight: there is an option in skype, it has a menu with all the notifications and how to disable them o.O
<bigcalm> !ping
<lubotu3> another contentless ping... sigh...
 * bigcalm hugs lubotu3
<livingdaylight> I thought i dug around in skyp's options. Do you know whwere exaqctly?
<ali1234> livingdaylight: skype probably uses libalsa wrapper
<ali1234> so it will appear as ALSA plug-in [skype]
<ali1234> or something like that
<ali1234> but probably only when it is actually making sound
<popey> livingdaylight: skype definitely has an option for sound alerts, I have switched them off
<livingdaylight> popey just don't see it. I now found under Sound Devices "allow skype to automatically adjust my mixer levels" which wa enabled. I have now disabled it to see what that does
<livingdaylight> popey are you in front of skype?
<popey> not on ubuntu
<popey> its under 'notifications'
<popey> same on all platforms
<livingdaylight> thanks
<czajkowski> c
<czajkowski> bah
<robertahilljr> hi all, has anyone had any luck getting a tablet laptop combi fully working on 11.04
<czajkowski> tonytiger: is going for membership  why not jot down a few lines to help convience the EMEA board he deserves it https://wiki.ubuntu.com/tonywhitmore
<AlanBell> http://www.speedtest.net/result/1469335448.png
<bigcalm> o.O
<The_Fred> i hate to think how i'd do
<The_Fred> Im online via mobile phone, and latency is quite high
<The_Fred> im guessing max of 300 kps down, and maybe 50kps up
<The_Fred> I want AlanBell 's  connection..
<AlanBell> all you have to do is get four A* at A-Level
<AlanBell> or go to a conference
<The_Fred> simples :-)
<AlanBell> I went for the conference option
<popey> http://www.speedtest.net/result/1469346149.png wheeee
<The_Fred> no suprise here:
<The_Fred> http://www.speedtest.net/result/1469351891.png
 * MartijnVdS will get back to you all in ~4 months :)
<popey> hehe
<popey> i get 7Mb/s download on my three dongle
<popey> well, sometimes :D
<MartijnVdS> not bad
<The_Fred> i cant complain tho, i get 80Gb download over mobile for Â£15 a month payg...
<popey> i suspect thats about as much as it will go
<ali1234> http://www.speedtest.net/result/1469354833.png
<The_Fred> yea, with a dongle you pay Â£15 for 3 Gb, but through a phone 80Gb for Â£15...
<The_Fred> the main difference is the speed tho, and for me being online all day every day is more important than speed..
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Menu Discoverability In Ubuntu 11.10 - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/09/06/menu-discoverability-in-ubuntu-11-10/
<ali1234> lol what a crock
<MartijnVdS> Kool-aid anyone? :P
<ali1234> i would also point out that despite what that blog claims, "discovering that if you hit the left side of the screen the Launcher appears." is actually not discoverable at all
<ali1234> what actually happenes is people notice that the launcher dodges windows
<ali1234> so they restore any maximized windows and then move any other windows to the right until the launcher comes back
<MartijnVdS> there used to be a setting "always show"
<KrimZon> it took me a year to 'discover' aero's gesture of moving the window side to side to minimize everything else
<MartijnVdS> huh? moving side to side?
<KrimZon> it's really sensitive so I just thought windows randomly minimized because of windows being crappy and buggy when I was moving a window
<KrimZon> see
<KrimZon> it's like a wiggle when you drag the titlebar
<MartijnVdS> I miss alt-move in Windows
<MartijnVdS> alt+click-move
<KrimZon> I miss gnome 2 in windows
<KrimZon> but it still doesn't have enough clocks
<MartijnVdS> ...
<KrimZon> you need more than one so if one has a bug in the obscure way you make use of it, you can still use another
<MartijnVdS> oh!
<Featurefreak> huh,, that seems weird, the asus 1215N is Â£418 and â¬479, oh wow, ok, exchange rate is thhat good.
<Featurefreak> wondering, am i better off putthing ~â¬500 into a "real" laptop rather than going netbook class?
<suprengr> I dare anyone to try to beat this score: http://imagebin.org/171296 [& no hacking allowed]
<MooDoo> evening all
<suprengr> o/ MooDoo
<MooDoo> tony up for membership tonight?
<czajkowski> yup
<czajkowski> in 25 mins
<MooDoo> yeah thought it was, just showing my support :)
<czajkowski> leave a comment on his wiki if you like
<czajkowski> still no movement on the baby
<MooDoo> well she's twinging now and having to sit upright on a chair, might lead to nothing, but fingers crossed
<czajkowski> nods
<MooDoo> i'll make her wait till after the meeting though :)
<czajkowski> have you got someone to mind the little one
<MooDoo> czajkowski: yeah any one of about 10 family members said phone them any time, luckily both our families are in the same village about 5 mins away
<czajkowski> ah grand so
<MooDoo> yeah defo....we're so lucky :)
<czajkowski> tonytiger: boo
 * MooDoo hugs tonytiger 
<popey> oh, _now_ he turns up :D
<MooDoo> 11 mins to go :S
<MooDoo> :D
<MooDoo> so who is this tonytiger anyway ;)
<tonytiger> :P
<tonytiger> I like to be known as "man who doesn't overburden himself with IRC channels"
 * MooDoo is now known as "man who was supporting tonytiger, but now he can stuff off" ;)
<suprengr> tonytiger - good luck for tonight [actually, no luck needed - I reckon that should read 'congrats' in advance]
<tonytiger> Thanks for everyone's support
<tonytiger> hopefully we will get to talk about my experience on a future UUPC
<MooDoo> you're most welcome, was going to leave a testimonial but can't log in lol :D
 * popey puts extra obsidian balls in the bag
<MooDoo> lol
<MooDoo> brb misses is twinging again, back rub time
<tonytiger> MooDoo: I I believe you can participate in person in #ubuntu-meeting if you get back in time :)
<suprengr> tonytiger, are you 'sposed to roll up a trouser leg during the enrolment [whoops - election process]?
<MooDoo> yeah i'm back for a min or two
<czajkowski> has she started yet ?
<MooDoo> just twinges, she's in slow labour so it's just a waiting game
<czajkowski> :(
<MooDoo> driving us nuts
<bigcalm> Is there an easy way to find out the version number for each file in a checked out svn repo?
<mgdm> bigcalm: svn info?
<bigcalm> mgdm: looking for easy. So would need to svn info on each file
<mgdm> bigcalm: long shot, but is there a switch to svn ls ?
<mgdm> Hmm. Gwibber sucks, and GNOME3 isn't all that netbook-friendly
 * mgdm considers another desktop environment
<bigcalm> KDE?
<bigcalm> xfe?
<bigcalm> NextStep?
<mgdm> Was onsidering XFCE or LXDE. NOt sure of the difference
<mgdm> Heh, Window Maker would be good
<bigcalm> E17?
<bigcalm> Haven't used Enlightenment for a good 10 years
<bigcalm> Fluxbox!
<mgdm> I might just flatten it and try Crunchbang again
<mgdm> Ooooh, I ran Fluxbox for *years*
 * suprengr hums 'I did it myyyyyy wayyyyyy' at #ubuntu-meeting.... and runs away from czajkowski  in advance
<zleap> hi
<czajkowski> right....
<skybinary> hello
<skybinary> after a power fail, i have some grub minimal screen instead of booting into ubuntu, it is a black screen with a prompt grub>
<ali1234> boot live cd, repair filesystems, reinstall grub
<ali1234> but do it carefully
<skybinary> thanks ali
<ali1234> i recommend mounting read-only
<ali1234> and before that, check for hard errors on dmesg
<skybinary> my / and my /boot were on the same partition and i can mount it and browse it fine from the live cd fphew!
<ali1234> no errors?
<ali1234> run a fsck to be sure
<skybinary> dmesg says [65.252] EXT4-fs (sda1): warning: mounting fs with errors, running e2fsck is recommended
<ali1234> yeah there you go
<ali1234> so yeah, do that (carefully)
<skybinary> cool
<skybinary> Emergency help: lol
<skybinary> -p auto repair
<ali1234> dont do that
<mgdm> Ooooh, LXDE is *fast*
<skybinary> roger
<ali1234> auto repair can make it worse
<ali1234> you should run it in read only mode first
<ali1234> oh and make sure it is unmounted
<ali1234> basically
<ali1234> you run it in read only mode and see what it says is wrong
<ali1234> if it is not serious then you run it again and repair it (using interactive mode)
<ali1234> if it looks bad then you will need to image the drive and work on the image
<skybinary> -n make no changes to the filesystem
<ali1234> yeah that's the one
<ali1234> do that first
<ali1234> see what it says
<ali1234> you can pastebin it
<skybinary> http://pastebin.com/DfvqVp8y
<ali1234> no not that :)
<ali1234> e2fsck -n /dev/sda1
<skybinary> oh kay
<skybinary> that was alot, may have to >file.txt to paste it
<ali1234> yes
<skybinary> the text file has 274056 lines can pastebin accept files instead of the clipboard?
<ali1234> yeah you need to install a program called pastebinit
<skybinary> oops, i think i broke pasatebin
<skybinary> the install required me to log out, but now its asking for a username to log back in
<ali1234> why did it do that?
<ali1234> try ubuntu/no password
<ali1234> or ubuntu/ubuntu
<ali1234> are you really using the live cd?
<skybinary> yes
<skybinary> its ubuntu no password fphew
<skybinary> 683863
<skybinary> a notification popped saying it was posted
<skybinary> wasnt on long enough for me to capture the link
<skybinary> oh emm gee the file is 6mb
<ali1234> pastebin won't take that
<ali1234> also why don't you just paste the first few lines?
<skybinary> excellent questoin
<skybinary> ali1234, http://pastebin.com/esAawsnn
<Azelphur> 3 minute mug cake is awesome, https://www.dropbox.com/gallery/3832397/1/3mincake?h=9e4e5d \o/
<ali1234> skybinary: how important is the stuff on the disk?
<skybinary> umm
<ali1234> you should mount the disk read-only and back up all important files before continuing
<skybinary> ok
<ali1234> mount -o ro /dev/sda1 /mnt/
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> skybinary: make sure there's no missing files too
<ali1234> don't just copy the whole direcoty
<ali1234> if there's anything really important make sure the file is actually still there
<skybinary> yes i had an error copying a folder, i am now doing just that lol
<ali1234> hmm :(
<ali1234> do you have another disk which is big enough to contain this one?
<skybinary> it is a vdi
<ali1234> if you got an error you should probably stop poking it immediately
<skybinary> virtualbox
<ali1234> oh?
<ali1234> well that rules out hardware errors at least
<ali1234> so can you just make a copy of the vdi for backup purposes?
<skybinary> there is a way yes
<ali1234> well yeah
<ali1234> i mean do you have enough disk space to do that?
<ali1234> if so, you should do it
<skybinary> yes i do
<ali1234> you only need to make a simple copy of it
<ali1234> assuming the problem is with the host os filesystem
<ali1234> *isn't
<skybinary> it was a power cut, a cheep ups would have made a big difference
<ali1234> well i would say you need to run a filesystem check on the host os
<skybinary> oh i lost a drive 500gb one
<skybinary> the Disk Utility displays the SMART details for each HD, which is smart
<skybinary> ok ali1234 i have a copy and im logged into the live cd
<ali1234> well you have a full backup now
<ali1234> so you can run e2fsck -p and hope it works :)
<skybinary> it was shorter, 4 lines
<ali1234> that's probably enough to boot normally now then
<skybinary> it suggests i run it manually because of UNEXPECTED INCONSISTENCY ( ie: without the -p)
<ali1234> do that then
<skybinary> Inodes that were part of a corrupted orphan linked list found. fix<y>?
<ali1234> just say yes to everything
<ali1234> there isn't much else you can do at this point
<ali1234> either it works or it does
<skybinary> true
<ali1234> if it doesn't you need to use some other tool to recover the files from the vdi copy you made
<The_Fred> ali1234, sorry to interrupt, but what does e2fsck -p   do?
<ali1234> automatically says yes to everything basically
<ali1234> maybe that is e2fsck -y
<skybinary> fsk is showing me the contents of the folder i had a problem copying earlier
<The_Fred> ali1234, thankyou
<ali1234> so did you run a disk check on the host os?
<ali1234> because if the host filesystem has errors you'l never fix it inside the guest
<skybinary> yes
<ali1234> ok, carry on
<skybinary> The_Fred, http://pastebin.com/DfvqVp8y
<The_Fred> skybinary, many thanks, thats gold for me... i've not had disk trouble since i left windows... :-)
<ali1234> it seems like you will lose some files from this
<ali1234> you can probably recover them by hand if you really need to
<skybinary> umm
<ali1234> it will be difficult though
<skybinary> :(
<ali1234> so any more errors?
<skybinary> tyyyyyyy
<skybinary> oops
<skybinary> yeah
<skybinary> i wish i tried -y now lol
<ali1234> you should reinstall the guest as well
<ali1234> just hit ctrl-c and start it over
<skybinary> done
<skybinary> it finished yay
<ali1234> ok, try to backup all your files again
<ali1234> they should copy ok this time
<ali1234> but for sure some will be missing
<ali1234> you need to decide if it is worth it to try to get the missing files back
<skybinary> ace
<skybinary> that folder is now restored
<skybinary> at a guess it seems to be missing about 100 files
<skybinary> last i checked (by memory) there were 320 files, now there are 252
<ali1234> there are several methods you can use to try to recover them
<skybinary> do i need to finalise something before i restart
<ali1234> no probably not
<skybinary> sigh
<skybinary> grub> = :(
<ali1234> yes, well, you will have to reinstall
<skybinary> the installer says it sees ubuntu and offers to install side by side
<ali1234> make a new vdi
<ali1234> you effectively have a damaged vdi
<ali1234> it's like having a broken hard disk
<ali1234> except it doesn't get worse
<ali1234> and you can just make a new one
<ali1234> this will be easier than trying to repair the old one
<ali1234> waverly films trolling their subscribers. this is awesome
#ubuntu-uk 2011-09-07
<HazRPG> ooooo so tempting to build a reprap machine!
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: hey man
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: You about?
<HazRPG> sammmmmmmm: sup
<HazRPG> sammmmmmmm: yeah ^_^
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: I spoke to you before about my piles
<HazRPG> sammmmmmmm: ah yeah
<HazRPG> sammmmmmmm: how'd it go?
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: I haven't woken early enough to see a GP yet
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: But I just did the fattest dump in my life. It took me half an hour and was the size of my foot
<HazRPG> o.O
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: It reached the toilet water before it came out fully
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: Amazingly, I didn't bleed from it
<HazRPG> yeah that's not going to help matters
<HazRPG> although I know what it like not being awake to do morning stuff
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: I touched it and it was so dry and hard
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: But then some sloppy stuff came out after it
<HazRPG> tmi for a logged channel ^_^
<sammmmmmmm> I could probably knock someone out by throwing my stool at them
<HazRPG> heh, now that is saying something - and rather disturbing at the same time :P
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: I don't understand why I'm so constipated
<sammmmmmmm> My diet is fine
<HazRPG> stress?
<sammmmmmmm> I drink plenty of liquids
<HazRPG> drinking plenty?
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: Hell no
<sammmmmmmm> I'm so laid back
<HazRPG> like I said, fibre can go either way
<sammmmmmmm> I don't consume massive amounts of fibre
<HazRPG> if you have too much fibre... but not enough water... then your going to get constipated, if you have too little fibre, and too much water... then... well... its going to be sloppy :P
<sammmmmmmm> Maybe a bit under nourished, but I wouldn't have thought it'd make it this bad
<sammmmmmmm> I don't drink any water
<sammmmmmmm> I haven't for months
<sammmmmmmm> I drink milk and sometimes Dr Pepper
<HazRPG> not a huge issue, as long as your drinking fluids in general
<HazRPG> cos they're still made with water somewhere
<sammmmmmmm> Then my stools should be sloppy.........
<HazRPG> if you drink lots, its best to put more fibre to your diet
<HazRPG> that will definitely help
<sammmmmmmm> I eat lots of bananas
<HazRPG> best place I get my fibre, samiches and cereals :)
<sammmmmmmm> And I eat cereals
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: I probably need an expert to diagnose and recommend solutions
<HazRPG> watch out for bananas!
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: Why?
<HazRPG> although its good for fibre, it works both ways
<sammmmmmmm> They have fibre
<HazRPG> its a strange paradox!
<sammmmmmmm> OMGGG
<sammmmmmmm> FFS
<sammmmmmmm> I just want a cure
<HazRPG> 2-3 bananas iirc is a good daily amount
<HazRPG> however, more than that, you'll constipate yourself
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: I don't eat more than that
<HazRPG> hmm
<HazRPG> sounds like there's enough fibre in your diet, its just fluids that's your issue then
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: Can milk cause constipation?
<HazRPG> it shouldn't
<sammmmmmmm> I drink so much of it
<HazRPG> body, technically speaking, can't properly digest milk iirc (I might be wrong on that one)
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: I heard that before, but without solid evidence.
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: And my best friend drinks as much, if not more milk than me, and he has no problems
<HazRPG> lactase is an enzyme in the intestine that helps breaks down milk sugars...
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: Or at least, never talks about it...
<HazRPG> but not everyone has the same levels of it... so having too much milk can cause issues to some people (esp. people who have very little - or non at all - which causes them to be Â lactose intolerance.
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: Wouldn't I know if I had that?
<HazRPG> well... you'd know if you were lactose intolerant for sure!
<HazRPG> milk shouldn't be an issue though
<sammmmmmmm> Then I'm not.
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: What about chicken?
<sammmmmmmm> I eat a lot of that.
<HazRPG> as do I ^_^
<HazRPG> favourite meat group ^_^
<HazRPG> shouldn't cause an issue
<sammmmmmmm> I heard Vikings had big dumps because they eat so much meat.
<HazRPG> but the more meat you eat, the more fibre and water you'd need with it
<sammmmmmmm> s/eat/ate/
<HazRPG> wouldn't call it wrong
<HazRPG> a friend always told me "don't eat too much meat" as advice to me... however I find that you just need to balance how much fibre/water to go with the number of meat you eat - its hard to work out, but it can be balanced with a bit of mixing and matching to find out :)
<HazRPG> balancing the diet can be a pain!
<HazRPG> cos no 2 people are going to be the same
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: And because we're incredibly lazy
<sammmmmmmm> Or I am, at least.
<HazRPG> I've recently started eating 3 of 4 tuna or cheese sandwiches... and that seems to be helping with the amount of fluids I have...
<sammmmmmmm> I eat tunas
<HazRPG> just get your balance of fibre per fluids consumed :)
<sammmmmmmm> I eat cans of it...
<HazRPG> same ^_^
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: And see a GP soonish?
<HazRPG> tuna/chicken/cheese/bread/pizza = my diet :P
<sammmmmmmm> Should I take one of my dumps with me?
<HazRPG> sammmmmmmm: obviously :)
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: Love those foods too
<HazRPG> sammmmmmmm: they might not be able to tell you exactly what your body needs, but they can at least guide you in the right direction!
<HazRPG> and definitely get rid of any pains/irritations in that area - which is probably more important to fix really
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: not really
<sammmmmmmm> I can live with pain
<sammmmmmmm> I can't live with long-term health problems
<HazRPG> for fruits I tend to drink them more than eat them... fresh cranberry juice is my forte
<sammmmmmmm> I don't eat that much fruit
<HazRPG> sammmmmmmm: well that was more what I was getting at, the pain can be put aside mentally - however it will cause many complications over time
<sammmmmmmm> 1 banana a day
<HazRPG> cranberry is good for the system btw :)
<sammmmmmmm> But I drink milk
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: why are you still awake?
<HazRPG> although cranberry is sometimes classed as an acquired taste - but its good for flushing out the system
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: I like cranberry juice
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: does research support your statement?
<HazRPG> about cranberry?
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: I hope my toilet still works...
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: yes
<HazRPG> certainly, it's a cranberry juiceÂ has a mild diuretic quality
<HazRPG> bah that was fail typing
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: why are you still awake?
<HazRPG> have a look at diuretics: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diuretic#Uses
<HazRPG> specifically the uses part
<HazRPG> for some info on cranberry: http://bnf.org/bnf/bnf/current/41001i995.htm
<HazRPG> bah that was a bad link
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: Diuretics are often abused by sufferers of eating disorders, especially bulimics, in attempts at weight loss?
<HazRPG> indeed
<sammmmmmmm> My weight is fine
<sammmmmmmm> Optimal BMI
<HazRPG> yeah, but you still need some in your diet - they don't call it balanced for nothing :P
<sammmmmmmm> Balance requires effort and planning...
<sammmmmmmm> Two things I don't like to do
<HazRPG> e.g. my dad's doctor recommended that he should drink lots and lots of cranberry when he had kidney stones
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: What are those?
<HazRPG> very nasty is what they are :P
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: I've heard of them before
<HazRPG> kidney stones are crystals that form in your kidneys
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: What's the technical name for them?
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: Crystals?!?!?
<HazRPG> kidney stones is the technical name :P
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: lol sounds like slang
<sammmmmmmm> Like piles
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: You know so much more about stuff than me
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: Why are you so wise?
<HazRPG> I guess if you want to get fully medical its "nephrolithasis" or "renal calculi" ... but don't quote me on those spellings
<HazRPG> sammmmmmmm: my mum's a doctor lol, she kept telling more than I needed to know about stuff to scare me to do things properly
<HazRPG> (she probably wanted me to become a doctor too, but that never happened :P)
<HazRPG> also, google
<HazRPG> I live on google
<HazRPG> and wikipedia
<HazRPG> I like reading about useless facts - because then it actually helps with conversations like this :P
 * HazRPG is a jack of many trades... but master of none lol
<HazRPG> so yeah, cranberry juice - very good for the system
<HazRPG> I'd recommend at least 2 or 3 glasses in a week
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: why are you still awake?
<HazRPG> (like I said, you don't need lots of it, but it stops you getting urinary infections, cos your constantly flushing out stuff quicker than it can form in the system ^_^
<HazRPG> sammmmmmmm: me? I sleep little and odd hours
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: sounds like you have a sleeping disorder, or a fancy sleeping schedule
<HazRPG> its a rolling system schedule ^_^
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: Like Arch Linux?
<HazRPG> over time I'll be sleeping in the night then waking in the day... and slowly rotates round
<HazRPG> sammmmmmmm: heh, sorta :P
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: Is it wrong for me to be proud of the humongous dump I just did?
<HazRPG> heh, nah lol
<sammmmmmmm> First thing I did was text my friend about it
<HazRPG> haha
<HazRPG> I'd probably do the same
<sammmmmmmm> He'll see the text when he wakes up
<HazRPG> but more because I know he'd get annoyed and think it to be tmi :P
<HazRPG> so you asked me why I'm awake, how come your awake :P?
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: My friend won't care, he farts loudly when I'm about...
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: I struggle to go to bed and struggle to wake up
<HazRPG> ah
<HazRPG> that sucks
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: And I did a massive dump and wanted to talk about it
<HazRPG> ^_^
<HazRPG> I have that problem too (sleeping)
<sammmmmmmm> And I was going to have a wank but CBA now
<HazRPG> I find sleeping pointless, its more hours I could be doing something else
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: At uni, I just shift my sleeping times forward by 2 hours every day.
<HazRPG> I do that
<HazRPG> I know I roughly sleep 6-8hrs
<sammmmmmmm> I wish getting out of bed wasn't so hard
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: I sleep 10-14
<HazRPG> so if I know I need to be up at x time, I make sure to minus 8hrs off that for sleep
<HazRPG> sammmmmmmm: agreed
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: Haha if I need to be up when at uni, I skip sleep two nights before, then go to bed early the night before
<sammmmmmmm> So I'm actually going to bed really really late
<HazRPG> at the moment I usually sleep around 15-21
<sammmmmmmm> 15-21 hours a day?
<HazRPG> no from 3pm to 9pm
<sammmmmmmm> ah okay
<sammmmmmmm> my best friend has naps in the day
<HazRPG> but like I said its rolling ^_^
<HazRPG> e.g. yesterday I fell asleep at 6pm, and woke up 11pm
<sammmmmmmm> sleep is so lame
<HazRPG> I know what you mean
<sammmmmmmm> I wish I didn't need sleep
<sammmmmmmm> would be so awesome
<HazRPG> like I said, its time I could be doing more stuff (like trawling the internets :P)
<sammmmmmmm> conscious 24/7
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: isn't that a waste of your life?
<sammmmmmmm> I spend my time playing video games
<HazRPG> erm... trawling the internets for food for my brain
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: how do you manage your job around your sleep?
<HazRPG> constantly reading useless facts like I said :P
<HazRPG> I work freelance :)
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: as what?
<HazRPG> heh, ironically web developer
<HazRPG> I like the internet so much, I want to create more of it :P
<HazRPG> haven't been doing it freelance for long though, it's a recent thing since it fits better with my sleep
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: haha
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: Your sleep controls your life
<HazRPG> I did work for a company for a year (between college/uni transition)
<HazRPG> and now since I graduated, I decided I don't want to work for a company
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: If you slept normally, you could have a 9-5 job
<HazRPG> sammmmmmmm: I could... but a 9-5 job means HAVING to do work you might not want to do
<sammmmmmmm> BTW isn't it unnatural to wake up at 06:30-08:00 every day?
<HazRPG> freelance, means I can picky if I have many clients offering me work :P
<HazRPG> at the moment I have about 2 websites that people want doing, and currently deciding which to take (or possibly take both, if one or the other doesn't mind waiting )
<HazRPG> sammmmmmmm: VERY unnatural
<HazRPG> lets put it this way, me going to sleep anywhere between 9pm to 2am... means I'll be getting up (naturally) at around 9am-12pm
<sammmmmmmm> 9-5 seems like long and tedious hours
<HazRPG> and that's if I just leave it to my brain to wake itself up, not a clock
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: I think people should wake up naturally
<sammmmmmmm> Clocks suck ass
<HazRPG> I find, if I leave myself to my own devices - sleeping at night means I end up sleeping 8-12 hours
<HazRPG> if I sleep during the day... I sleep 6-8hrs
<sammmmmmmm> But that would mean going to bed at like 7-8
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: 6-8 is rubbish
<sammmmmmmm> I like 10-12
<HazRPG> like I said, currently I sleep 6pm to 12pm
<HazRPG> I prefer 6-8, means I can do more - I'm too hyper naturally
<sammmmmmmm> I currently sleep 05:30 to 16:00
<HazRPG> why I hate sleep so much
<HazRPG> I've always wanted to try doing what some of the genius artists and inverters use to do
<HazRPG> have constant mini-naps during a day...
<HazRPG> that way you have more hours in your days to work - and overall your brain functions better
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: If I had a 9-5 job, I'd have to go to bed at 9 and wake up at 7. Which would mean I'd only have 3 hours of free time a day (if it takes an hour to get home from work)
<HazRPG> (it explains why dogs and cats seem to always be having lots of mini-naps!)
<sammmmmmmm> Busy from 21:00 'til 18:00 the next day
<HazRPG> sammmmmmmm: I know what you mean
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: Sure, but it'd involve clocks
<HazRPG> my dad works 9am-2pm, 4pm-9pm each day
<HazRPG> I have no idea how he does it!
<sammmmmmmm> And those 3 hours would be comprised of eating, cleaning and doing chores and stuff
<sammmmmmmm> So 0 minutes to play games, socialise and relax
<HazRPG> I know what you mean :(
<sammmmmmmm> 9-5 is shit
<HazRPG> sammmmmmmm: except weekends ;)
<HazRPG> sammmmmmmm: weekends = PARTY TIME!
<sammmmmmmm> Should be 14:00 to 18:00
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: Weekends are few and far between
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: People work like your dad in Spain
<HazRPG> although for most 9-5ers, weekends means cleaning/choirs and just generally just sitting and doing nothing
<sammmmmmmm> They nap in the afternoon
<HazRPG> heh, yeah that's what my dad does!
<HazRPG> I don't know how he does it, I can't nap... AT ALL!
<sammmmmmmm> Why not?
<sammmmmmmm> I suck at it too
<HazRPG> if I nap, it ends up being a full on sleep :P
<sammmmmmmm> lol same
<sammmmmmmm> My best friend is good at it
<HazRPG> so say I got up at 6am... and then napped at say 10am...
<HazRPG> I'd wake up 4pm
<sammmmmmmm> you wouldn't want to nap 4 hours after you wake up
<sammmmmmmm> Or at least I wouldn't
<HazRPG> napping is a hard habit to get into, unless you did it as a kid
<sammmmmmmm> I never did
<HazRPG> I wouldn't, but I've had to do it a few times though
<sammmmmmmm> Parents told me to get a bigass sleep at night
<HazRPG> same
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: Is it normal to have a limp left foot and left arm after a HUGE dump?
<HazRPG> and I blame my sleeping pattern because my parents never told me off for play RPG's non-stop when I was a kid
<HazRPG> I would play Final Fantasy for 18hrs at a time
<sammmmmmmm> Could I be having a mini-stroke?
<HazRPG> literally!
<HazRPG> only taking a break for say food, and toilet breaks...
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: HAHAHA same about the RPGs
<HazRPG> e.g. my dad would wake up in the morning (around 7-8am) see me... and say "you still up? Make sure you get to school on time!"
<sammmmmmmm> Used to love 'em
<HazRPG> that was about it
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: wow
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: that's bad
<HazRPG> didn't do me any harm ^_^
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: worose than me
<HazRPG> he was more strict about me being clean, then my sleeping pattern
<sammmmmmmm> my parents were only strict about profanity
<HazRPG> i.e. he would get a broom, and LITERALLY threaten to sweep all the stuff on the floor into the bin
<HazRPG> I was allowed to, but NOT in the house
<sammmmmmmm> that's harsh
<sammmmmmmm> Could I be having a mini-stroke?
<HazRPG> hmm?
<HazRPG> how?
<HazRPG> the fuck?
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: Is it normal to have a limp left foot and left arm after a HUGE dump?
<HazRPG> how bout your left side of your face/
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: You missed my earlier messages...
<HazRPG> ?*
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: feels fine
<HazRPG> then I doubt it's a stroke
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: my foot felt limp and now my forearm feels weird
<HazRPG> try talking aloud
<sammmmmmmm> and my bum aches
<HazRPG> if you can form sentences fine... then your not having a stroke
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: lol no, don't want to wake anyone
<HazRPG> whisper ^_^
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: no, I'd look stupid
<HazRPG> hmm the ability to understand things also fades if your having a stroke too
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: or im just tired?
<HazRPG> also, inability to see one side of vision
<HazRPG> so if one eye is blurry, then you need to be worried
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: or im just short-sighted?
<HazRPG> more likely lack of sleep dude ^_^
<HazRPG> sammmmmmmm: not unless you see blurryness with your glasses on!
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: that reminds me, why do my muscles sometimes ache when I'm sleep deprived?
<HazRPG> also not seeing at all can be possible too
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: wow id hate that
<sammmmmmmm> I like being able to see stuff
<HazRPG> (in one eye! its unlikely to have a stroke in both sides of the brain - rare)
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: would you rather lose an arm or go blind?
<HazRPG> hmm
<sammmmmmmm> why do my muscles sometimes ache when I'm sleep deprived?
<HazRPG> I'd rather loose an arm, then go blind
<HazRPG> my skills are computer based
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: hahah same
<HazRPG> I'd rather type with one hand, then to not be able to see what it is I'm coding
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: what about both arms?
<HazRPG> hmm, that would be hard
<HazRPG> don't think I could sit and talk to my computer all day long
<sammmmmmmm> yeah, would be
<sammmmmmmm> lol same
<sammmmmmmm> eyetracking?
<HazRPG> ?
<sammmmmmmm> you could use it to type
<HazRPG> also, not sure why sleep deprivation causes pains, but it does  :P
<HazRPG> sammmmmmmm: that would drive me insane
<sammmmmmmm> would you ever augment yourself?
<HazRPG> how do you mean?
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: stephen hawking doesn't mind doing it
<HazRPG> throw myself into a computer?
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: nooooo
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: Deus Ex
<HazRPG> never played that
<HazRPG> heard of it... though
<sammmmmmmm> Mechanical body parts
<sammmmmmmm> Cyborgs
<HazRPG> ah
<HazRPG> hmm
<HazRPG> maybe
<sammmmmmmm> Would you give up an arm for a mechanical one?
<sammmmmmmm> Or an eye?
<HazRPG> would be cool to be indestructible in places :P
<HazRPG> maybe not an eye
<HazRPG> but other body parts yes
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: people have done it
<HazRPG> would love not needing to go to the toilet for example :P
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: how would that work?
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: you NEED the toilet, man
<HazRPG> e.g. all goes into a box that I can just throw into a machine and put in a different box ^_^
<sammmmmmmm> WTF?
<HazRPG> lol exactly
<sammmmmmmm> would you augment your penis?
<HazRPG> e.g. all toilet waste goes into some sort of box... which you can just remove, and place into a toilet like thing to clean it out
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Recording a Screencast In Ubuntu Tutorial - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/09/07/recording-a-screencast-in-ubuntu-tutorial/
<HazRPG> sammmmmmmm: hell no!
<HazRPG> sammmmmmmm: I want to be able to feel something good ;D
<sammmmmmmm> I'd augment my chest and belly
<sammmmmmmm> With super tough metal compounds
<sammmmmmmm> And then my limbs
<sammmmmmmm> My eyes if I could safely
<sammmmmmmm> Super eyesight would be awesome
<HazRPG> I'd only augment one eye, if it meant I could do some awesome calculations with it to predict stuff with (e.g. reference Eureka :P)
<HazRPG> (or terminator)
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: Augmented reality
<HazRPG> ;D
<sammmmmmmm> I'd use it to whois people in real time
<HazRPG> technically we're getting there!
<HazRPG> with glasses and such
<sammmmmmmm> I want to know about people without talking to them
<HazRPG> haha yeah
<HazRPG> would defo help with relationships too!
<sammmmmmmm> I want to know if a girl will put out just by looking at her
<HazRPG> (schedule of her day...)
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: OMG you think like me
<HazRPG> (she likes, x, y, z...)
<HazRPG> (she just made a reference to *this*, here is a sample of what she's talking about)
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: imagine how useful augmented reality would be for soldiers and firefighters
<HazRPG> or if its from a TV programme (here is a video of what she's talking about)
<HazRPG> would be cool
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: But then you have the issue of whether she likes you for who you are, or for the machine you use
<HazRPG> speaking of hating going to the toilet... brb
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: If she only likes you because you can understand her using complex electronics and computer code, it might de-value your relationship.
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: Although I struggle with empathy, so I'd use it more as a handicap tool rather than because I'm just lazy
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: I do not understand girls AT ALL
<sammmmmmmm> Probably why I haven't had a girlfriend for 5 years
<HazRPG> heh, don't confuse the situation - at the end of the day, the computer won't act for you unless you tell it to
<HazRPG> it'll only present to you what your actually thinking
<HazRPG> or requesting of it
<HazRPG> and at the end of the day, your brain would still have to process if you want to follow up with any of the stuff it presents to you
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: could do more
<HazRPG> e.g. "hmm I wonder what type of flower she likes" and then it tells you, and you don't go and buy it
<HazRPG> so at the end of the day, she'd still like you for you... cos its your choices
<HazRPG> the fact that your memory and ability to find things easier would be irrelevant
<sammmmmmmm> Could augmented reality tell me if girls like me or not?
<HazRPG> besides, who to say she wouldn't do the same thing back to you - if she had it too
<HazRPG> sammmmmmmm: it could try to read body languages, and maybe base it on past events, etc
<HazRPG> but doubt it would be fully accurate
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: That would be nice, I suck at body language
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: But it'd probably help I bet
<HazRPG> indeed
<sammmmmmmm> Could it tell if a girl is horny for me?
<HazRPG> "body language detects, she doesn't think your trying too hard... computer pull me up some info that might be relevant to her... computer: well she likes this, try that... etc"
<HazRPG> sammmmmmmm: that ones easy yes
<sammmmmmmm> OMG
<sammmmmmmm> That would be awesome
<sammmmmmmm> I want this tech NAOW
<HazRPG> lol
<sammmmmmmm> I need help with friendships and relationships so badly
<sammmmmmmm> I'm not really a people person :(
<sammmmmmmm> I have like 5 friends
<HazRPG> cos being horny has some side-effects that are visible via body language, change in temp., way of talking, breathing... smells (hormones, etc)
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: yep, was thinking that
<HazRPG> 5 good friends, is better than non dude
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: sure, but most people have like 50
<sammmmmmmm> or more
<sammmmmmmm> and girlfriends
<HazRPG> that's only because people suck at categorising stuff
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: ?
<HazRPG> people can have many accountancies - people you don't see often, speak to often, or just talk to if they're around - but most will call these friends
<MartijnVdS> not everyone that's a "friend" is a good enough friend to confide private things to
<HazRPG> but its not the same thing
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: exactly :)
<HazRPG> acquaintances***
<sammmmmmmm> hmmmm
<HazRPG> epic autoword correct there
<sammmmmmmm> I still think I have less friends than most people
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: Pidgin?
<MartijnVdS> sammmmmmmm: So? It's not a race :)
<HazRPG> sammmmmmmm: yeah lol
<sammmmmmmm> <3 Pidgin autocorrect and lazy typing
<HazRPG> sammmmmmmm: my spelling is bad
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: Hahaha mine is good, but I'm tired and CBA
<HazRPG> I have maybe 3 true friends... rest to me are either partial-friends or acquaintances
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: But you're at home almost all the time
<HazRPG> or people I get along with for use of a better word :)
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: You live on the internet
<HazRPG> people always get offended when I call them an acquaintance
<sammmmmmmm> haha why?
<sammmmmmmm> it's a neutral word, is it not?
<HazRPG> they assume it means something bad, when really its just someone you've met or someone you get along with (more so on the whole someone you've met... but still, it depends on context)
<MartijnVdS> "But I consider you a friend" etc.
<sammmmmmmm> But someone can be both a friend and an acquintance
<HazRPG> sammmmmmmm: home most of the time cos its where I spend my working hours and personal time yes... but I still go out, and still see people :P
<sammmmmmmm> people shouldn't comment on things they barely understand
<MartijnVdS> sammmmmmmm: Welcome to the real world, where everyone has an opinion on everything :)
<HazRPG> friend to me is a sacred word - it means trust, etc
<MartijnVdS> sammmmmmmm: just ignore the non-experts :)
<sammmmmmmm> real world sucks
<HazRPG> so hate a good handful of friends, and very best friends, but many acquaintances
<MartijnVdS> sammmmmmmm: Sorry, we don't have anything better on offer today ;)
<sammmmmmmm> sometimes I can say stupid things and my friends assume its true because im thought of as the smart one LOLOL
<HazRPG> bah!
<HazRPG> have* not hate
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: http://www.learn2type.com/ :P
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: just that time of morning ^_^
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: Autocorrect doesn't do grammar so well
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: time for your first (Egyptian) coffee? :)
<sammmmmmmm> Just spelling
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: Can we be friends on Facebook?
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: no such thing as Egyptian coffee really lol, they're local is technically turkish coffee :P
<sammmmmmmm> their*?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: not Ethiopian?
<HazRPG> ^_^
<HazRPG> sammmmmmmm: if ya want
<sammmmmmmm> their*?
<HazRPG> their* yes
<HazRPG> sorry
<HazRPG> bah
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: I cannot find you
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: also, bad time for coffee, I need to be awake and sane at 2pm
<sammmmmmmm> Although I haven't tried very hard
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: time for sleep then :)
<HazRPG> sammmmmmmm: fail :P
<HazRPG> facebook.com/hazrpg
<sammmmmmmm> it's past my bedtime
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: Dude, I could have found you if I had any effort to
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: mine is facebook.com/facrbook
<HazRPG> probably :P
<sammmmmmmm> stupid facebook took the one I wanted
<sammmmmmmm> so I went with the most common typo
<HazRPG> lol
<HazRPG> you wanted facebook.com/facebook ?
<sammmmmmmm> yes
<HazRPG> XD lol why? You can't change that url at all
<sammmmmmmm> What do you mean?
<sammmmmmmm> I could have made it whatever I wanted
<MartijnVdS> you can only set it once, right?
<sammmmmmmm> I might make my forename on FB "Sam" and my surname "uel"
<sammmmmmmm> once, I think so
<MartijnVdS> sammmmmmmm: until FB asks you for photo id
<sammmmmmmm> mart I can't tab-complete you :(
<sammmmmmmm> WTF why would FB do that?
<MartijnVdS> sammmmmmmm: sometimes they do, if the suspect you're <13 years old, or someone reports you as a spammer too foten
<sammmmmmmm> If they did that, im quitting for good
<MartijnVdS> often*
<sammmmmmmm> Wow that's lame
<MartijnVdS> it's a good way to prevent spam, imho
<sammmmmmmm> I'm going to make Pidgin replace every instance of "gay" with "lame" so I don't have to keep forcing myself to be polite
<sammmmmmmm> captchas work better
<sammmmmmmm> FB sometimes gives me captchas when I spam my friend's profile too often
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: Did we move our convo into private on purpose?
<HazRPG> sammmmmmmm: to autocomplete MartijnVdS in pidgin do "martij"
<HazRPG> and then tab
<HazRPG> I use that a lot ^_^
<HazRPG> btw, martijn is pronounced "martin" iirc :)
<HazRPG> sammmmmmmm: nope ^_^
<HazRPG> sammmmmmmm: you msg me first ^_^
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: too many letters to auto-complete
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: I use 3 then tab
<sammmmmmmm> 7 is too many
<sammmmmmmm> Why not just type the whole thing?
<sammmmmmmm> or not bother
<HazRPG> urgh, seems facebook changed their privacy crap again T____T
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: I noticed that too
 * HazRPG goes through all the crap again to see what's different and what I don't want
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: same
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: I have 99% of the stuff set to "only me"
<HazRPG> heh
<HazRPG> I have groups for that :P
<HazRPG> I allow my best friends to see all things
<sammmmmmmm> People keep complaining they can't post on my wall
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: I don't trust the security of my friends' accounts
<HazRPG> if I put someone into my "restricted" group, they seem very very limited stuff ^_^
<sammmmmmmm> And don't trust Facebook with my info
<HazRPG> again its all trust... I put people in places that I can trust them with ^_^
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: you trust too much
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: FB is evil
<HazRPG> sammmmmmmm: I've noticed you can now review posts to walls...
<sammmmmmmm> My friends are stupid
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: How does that work?
<HazRPG> set it so that you have to review any posts to your walls it seems
<sammmmmmmm> But that'd require I have my wall visible
<HazRPG> that way, you see the message, but you don't have to physically allow it on your wall ^_^
<sammmmmmmm> my wall has too much personal info
<HazRPG> well yeah... but you can restrict it down further if needs be
<HazRPG> you can set it so that its not visible to people, but allow them to post on it
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: that's cool
<HazRPG> or that's my understanding of it
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: But still, I could just not bother with it at all
<HazRPG> true
<sammmmmmmm> I'm not exactly missing much
<sammmmmmmm> If someone wants info from me, they could just IM me and ask
<HazRPG> I've noticed that being unsocial on facebook however... makes real life social life suffer (been there!)
<sammmmmmmm> That's the way I like it
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: WTFFFFFF?
<HazRPG> so I find it easier to just limit crap on my facebook account (e.g. I don't put my number on there, and that stuff)
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: There was a time before FB!
<HazRPG> but I allow people to post me stuff
<HazRPG> however I don't allow facebook to tell me people post stupid apps
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: what do you mean exactly by "unsocial"?
<HazRPG> sammmmmmmm: try telling that to the world (sadly) :(
<sammmmmmmm> I want an open source and openly run FB
<HazRPG> i.e. people not being able to post on your wall... and not replying to people often/fast
<sammmmmmmm> FB is too big to be trusted by a for-profit business
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: WTFFFF
<HazRPG> they forget I use pidgin for IM... so half the time I'm not actually on the darn website
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: why would that ruin my social life?
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: yeah same
<HazRPG> I don't know, it ruined mine at one point
<HazRPG> people started hating me for it o.O
<HazRPG> (retards)
<sammmmmmmm> Im logged on FBchat 24/7 but at my PC more like 8/7
<HazRPG> exactly
<HazRPG> same
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: Sorry about that, sounds like they mistreated you
<HazRPG> indeed
<HazRPG> obviously not my close friends - they're close for a reason ^_^
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: I get people asking me every single week "why don't you have a wall"
<sammmmmmmm> So annoying
<HazRPG> there are open-source facebook equivalents - just hard to get people to adopt them
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: Damn vicious circles!
<HazRPG> sammmmmmmm: my groups seem to do all their organising on facebook - so I miss out on a lot :(
<HazRPG> i.e. "why were you at x, we sent you an invite on facebook"
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: why?
<sammmmmmmm> LOL
<sammmmmmmm> I get so many spam events
<sammmmmmmm> SO annoying
<sammmmmmmm> I don't look at most of them now
<HazRPG> sammmmmmmm: cos apparently everyone uses facebook - they live on facebook - breathe on facebook - apparently without facebook they would not have internal organs
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: gayyyyyyyyy
<sammmmmmmm> oops I mean lameeeeee
<HazRPG> sammmmmmmm: so do I... and worst thing is you can't control the events either!
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: How do you propose we should be able to control them?
<HazRPG> i.e. "don't allow people, except this list to send me events"
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: hmm that could cut down my spam lots
<sammmmmmmm> I want to prevent some people from sending me event invites
<HazRPG> if you could do that, FANTASTIC, would be a winner, I'd set facebook events to hook straight into my phone to grab straight to my calendar (I have an android phone)
<sammmmmmmm> I think some of my friends are working for nightclubs
<HazRPG> same
<sammmmmmmm> LOL
<HazRPG> cos I keep getting "come to this club, and has funs, we haz cheap booze lulz, why not come, lulz, will be a blast, lulz"
<sammmmmmmm> There are so many things wrong with Facebook
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: OMG same
<sammmmmmmm> idc about those events AT ALL
<HazRPG> facebook is the bane of the world :P
<sammmmmmmm> It's spam and advertising
<sammmmmmmm> I want a ban on advertising via facebook events
<HazRPG> sammmmmmmm: agreed, it's the reason I have ad blockers, I don't need more things clogging my internets damnit
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: I haz adblocker too :)
<HazRPG> in fact, same adblocker, I've actually blocked the facebook chat bar as a result
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: I want facebook even adblocker
<HazRPG> cos I don't need to see the same message twice!
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: ahahaha
<sammmmmmmm> hahahaha
<HazRPG> what browser you on, and which adblocker do you use?
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: sometimes pidgin doesn't get the message, so I have to go on the website :(
<sammmmmmmm> My wi-fi is so flaky
<HazRPG> ah
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: do you know how to get messages in pidgin that have already been sent to me?
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: firefox adblock
<HazRPG> you do realise even if you block the chat bar, the messages now show up in your messages section - cos chat and messages are one and the same thing now (stupid thing)
<HazRPG> (facebook is the stupid thing btw, wasn't referring to you - I just hate facebook)
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: I want Pidgin to retrieve messages sent to me when im not connected, how do I do that?
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG:  yeah, noticed that
<HazRPG> sammmmmmmm: don't think you can do that currently
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: Once I can do that, I'll never need the website again
<HazRPG> heh
<sammmmmmmm> Bad wi-fi means I need it sometimes :(
<sammmmmmmm> The website chat is too unintuitive
<sammmmmmmm> hard to use
<sammmmmmmm> Pidgin makes it super easy
<sammmmmmmm> But it's buggy
<HazRPG> thing that annoys me is that facebook uses xmpp - but doesn't follow any of its usual protocol measures
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: well that's dumb
<HazRPG> pidgin isn't the buggy one - its just following the xmpp protocol, facebook is the buggy one
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: never used XMPP myself
<HazRPG> technically you are :P
<HazRPG> XMPP is just the server technologies
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: I know it's technically FB's fault
<HazRPG> Jabber is the actual service, or facebook, or gtalk
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: I know, I meant before FB
<HazRPG> :P
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: Sorry, haven't been explaining myself well
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: somehow I've managed to talk to you for 2 hours now without getting bored
<HazRPG> I find it amusing that people show up in pidgin as "-3026830268236@chat.facebook.com" cos its that retarded
<sammmmmmmm> I could probably keep going, but it's WAY past my bedtime
<HazRPG> if it was a normal xmpp, and it was federated properly, technically you'd only need a google account to add your facebook contacts
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: what generates that number?
<HazRPG> as far as I know, it's a static number (i.e. hover over a contact on pidgin and you'll see that info - or right-click the their pic at the top right and click get info)
<HazRPG> and it doesn't change
<HazRPG> I have a feeling its generated when you create a facebook account
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: I think that too
<sammmmmmmm> Like a userID
<sammmmmmmm> We each have our number
<HazRPG> when you make your url, then you can login to fbchat with pidgin as you know... so technically you should just be "username@chat.facebook.com" but that doesn't work for some stupid reason
<HazRPG> i.e. in my gtalk account, I can't add myself (I was testing to see if it would work)
<HazRPG> I've even tried adding people in based on the random stringed number - with no luck
<sammmmmmmm> dumb
<HazRPG> guessing its cos its not federated xmpp
<sammmmmmmm> lame
<HazRPG> federated, just means that other servers can talk to other servers
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: that would be cool
<HazRPG> like how I can have an e-mail with @somethingdaft.com and still be able to email you at @someotherwebsite.com
<HazRPG> gtalk is federated, along with jabber, and many others
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: nice examples
<HazRPG> you can technically make a federated server at home if you wanted to
<sammmmmmmm> HazRPG: isn't domain registration expensive, though?
<HazRPG> (federated xmpp I mean)
<HazRPG> sammmmmmmm: domain is cheap
<sammmmmmmm> Â£30 a year?
<HazRPG> in the UK, we can  get a domain for ~Â£3 a year for a .co.uk
<sammmmmmmm> nicee
<HazRPG> sammmmmmmm: if it was that expensive, I'd be broke o.O
<sammmmmmmm> dude, stop talking, let me sleep
<HazRPG> sammmmmmmm: I've got like 5 domains!
<sammmmmmmm> ok?
<HazRPG> lol alright :P
<sammmmmmmm> night xx
<HazRPG> nite
<HazRPG> \o
<HazRPG> Heh, I'm going to see what happens when I put my name in arabic as an alt in fb ^_^
<HazRPG> hah epic ^_^
<AlanBell> morning all
<HazRPG> AlanBell: morning squire :)
<HazRPG> hmm, ubuntu question: how do I get the UUID for a given partition?
<AlanBell> /dev/disk/by-uuid
<AlanBell> then figure out which is which
<AlanBell> or sudo blkid /dev/sda1
<AlanBell> !info pencil
<lubotu3> pencil (source: pencil): animation/drawing software. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.4.4b-0ubuntu4 (natty), package size 478 kB, installed size 1196 kB
<daubers> Morning
<MartijnVdS> howdy
 * daubers should go catch a bus to catch a train to go to London :(
 * daubers dislikes London
<daubers> However, my eeepc now works nicely :)
<MooDoo> hello all
<HazRPG> AlanBell: Ah, I'll give that a go, thanks :)
<HazRPG> AlanBell: Brilliant, that works :)
<HazRPG> AlanBell: Does this look sane to you for fstab: UUID=1C7432C87432A504 "/media/MP3's" defaults,nls=utf8,umask=007,gid=46 0 0
<MartijnVdS> where's the filesystem type?
<HazRPG> ntfs
<HazRPG> ah good point
<MartijnVdS> not on that line..
<MartijnVdS> also.. gid 46?
<MartijnVdS> that's plugdev..
<MartijnVdS> you shouldn't need to put stuff in that group
<HazRPG> its what /media/storage and /media/win7 had when I installed ubuntu
<MartijnVdS> sure but that's because you mounted them by clicking in the gui, I guess
<HazRPG> yeah
<HazRPG> in fact... looking at this fstab, its very messy o.O
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Look at that o.O: http://pastebin.com/kjQD23CH
<MartijnVdS> Commented out by Dropbox -- WUT
<MartijnVdS> why would you run dropbox as root?!
 * MartijnVdS adds this to the list of reasons to not run dropbox
<HazRPG> I never did run dropbox as root, well aside from install
<MartijnVdS> why did it comment out the /home mount then?
<MartijnVdS> or _how_
<HazRPG> *shrug*?
<HazRPG> it seems to have added "user_xattr" to /home
<MartijnVdS> user_xattr is nice to have
<HazRPG> it commented out the old /home, and replaced it with a similar thing but with "user_xattr" on it
<HazRPG> so what is user_xattr out of interest ?
<DJones> Morning
<HazRPG> DJones: morning :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: does fstab have anything against tabs btw?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: not that I know
<HazRPG> what's a better alternative to "defaults,nls=utf8,umask=007,gid=46" for my other drives?
<MartijnVdS> mkfs.ext4 :)
<HazRPG> heh, non of my drives are ext4, they're ext3 :P
<HazRPG> e.g. windows has to be ntfs
<HazRPG> and as does /media/storage, because that's something I store files for both O/S
<HazRPG> (despite the fact that I haven't used windows in a really long time, its there if I need it for whatever reason)
<HazRPG> would it be a bad idea to take out "umask=007,gid=46" from this ntfs fstab?
<HazRPG> cos it seems nls=utf8 is fine, and defaults is sorta needed ... but what about umask=007,gui=46
<HazRPG> am I right in thinking that's what gives it "owner: root" and group "devplug"?
<MartijnVdS> plugdev, but yes, I think so
<MartijnVdS> also, why put it in fstab? do you need it globally? can't you just open it in nautilus and be done?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: I have this for my SMB shares at home:
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: //diskstation/video /mnt/video cifs uid=1000,credentials=/etc/cifs_credentials 0 0
<MartijnVdS> (uid 1000 == me)
<HazRPG> 1000 usually always == person who installed it doesn't it :P?
<MartijnVdS> usually
<HazRPG> well storage for example is where I normally put downloads straight to
<HazRPG> and also use as one of my backup locations
<HazRPG> which runs every so often... so it needs to always be mounted
<HazRPG> and /media/MP3's (only has the 's cos its legacy from when I had it on windows - and wasn't that good with linux at the time) is obviously where I store my music... however I don't use mp3's much these days (been slowly converting to flac) but banshee always cries if that isn't mounted
<HazRPG> and since banshee is the first thing I open when I head to my computer...
<MartijnVdS> Is banshee stable for you?
<MartijnVdS> Because mine crashes ALL the time
<MartijnVdS> especially on oneiric
<HazRPG> banshee works like a treat ever since you told me about it ^_^
<HazRPG> only issues I have, is if I have too many sound based apps open at once for whatever reason... and then sound stream gets messed up - but I think that's more pulse's problem that banshee
<HazRPG> also, I use to have the messed up sound issue more when I used rhythmbox, so if anything banshee has made my system a little more reliable
<HazRPG> hmm, it won't hurt to take umask=007,gid=46 off will it?
<HazRPG> since its not / /home swap etc which are *needed* for the system
<HazRPG> if anything I can add those back if needed... right?
<diplo> Morning all
<AlanBell> morning
<czajkowski> aloha
<czajkowski> MooDoo: did she have the baby ???
<MooDoo> czajkowski: if i'm here then no :(
<czajkowski> MooDoo: bah talk about SLOW labour
<czajkowski> poor wifey
<DJones> How much overdue is she now
<MooDoo> 7 days
<MooDoo> she's at the midwife this afternoon
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps
<christel> i think she's having you on, she's not actuallly pregnant
<MooDoo> christel: lol just gained a huge belly over the last 9 months ;)
<christel> hehe
<DJones> MooDoo: McDonalds & KFC for breakfast, dinner & tea every day for 9 months?
<MooDoo> DJones: yeah
<DJones> What about your wife though :)
<MooDoo> shush
<DJones> Neighbours daughter is due home from hospital with her new born today, the neighbour is supposed to be doing my wifes hair tonight, I can see that being cancelled
<christel> :)
<hoover> morning all
<MooDoo> DJones: thanks for that :p
<DJones> At least she'll be ok for child minders, in 2 houses in our close, there's now 4 generations of the same family, great grandparents over the road, next door but 1 to them, grandparents, daughter and her new born baby, ages, 60 ish, 40 ish, 21 and new born :)
<DJones> MooDoo: It'll be you soon enough, no doubt waiting till the weekend so you can celebrate in style
<HazRPG> you know, it doesn't make sense that some UUID's seem to be really long and hyphenated, and others don't :S
<MooDoo> DJones: i hope not, it's my other sons 3rd birthday on sat :)
<christel> hehe
 * czajkowski tickles christel 
<DJones> I hope they don't end up with the same birthday, a couple of days apart would be good to avoid taking something away from one or the others celebrations
<christel> rawr
<MooDoo> that's what we're thinking
 * christel hugs czajkowski 
<DJones> MooDoo: Wifes cousin shares the same birthday with her sisters daughter, that causes a few problems
<czajkowski> MooDoo: or older son nose will be out of joint
<christel> my mum and i have the same birthday
<christel> well, not quite the same, she's obviously a few years older than me
<bigcalm> christel: she gave herself a good present that year :)
<MooDoo> me an my wife share the same birthday, she's 20 mins older
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: My sister is 2 hours older than her bf, we tease them about it ;)
<DJones> Wife & her mum have birthdays close, next year we get a joint 60th/30th birthday party
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: ("So you like older women?" "And you like young boys?")
<MooDoo> hehe
<JamesTait> Good morning, people! :D
<christel> bigcalm: i dunno, i think she might say it was the worst birthday she'd ever had
<christel> nah, i jest.. apparently it was "quick and easy"
<HazRPG> MooDoo: I'm sure you'll be hearing the pitter-patter of small feet soon enough :)
<christel> i was 3 weeks late and a whooping 12lbs, tho apparently labour took 25mins from start to finish
<MooDoo> christel: 12? blimey
<bigcalm> Blimey indeed
<MooDoo> i was 6lb's   now i'm huge ;)
<MartijnVdS> Though 25 minutes is FAST
<MooDoo> hel yes, i don't want her to be that fast as we're 25 mins from the hospital :D
<popey> morning
<MartijnVdS> howdy popey
<MooDoo> morning popey
<HazRPG> christel: woah, that is fast
<HazRPG> morning popey \o
<christel> my son was 9 1/2lbs, the computer esstimated he was 7lbs the day before
<christel> i am glad it was wrong oro i might have refused
<christel> (to have him that is)
<MooDoo> my first was 9 1/2 oz, new one is expected to be bigger :S
<christel> he looked like a seriously angry sumo wrestler when he was born
<christel> http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/182769_10150158436510937_668090936_8345427_1933335_n.jpg
<popey> I was 10lb 1oz :D
<czajkowski> MooDoo: what did you feed her
<czajkowski> christel: dear gods! I can only imagine.......
<MooDoo> czajkowski: it's me i'm afraid, i'm quite big so my genes rubbed off
<christel> it went pretty fast, i think the worst bit was when the mouthpiece fell off the gas and air supply and i really struggled to put it back on
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Paul Mellors] Ubuntu Members - http://paulmellors.blogspot.com/2011/09/ubuntu-members.html
<Myrtti> aw the documentary about how the pregnancy conditions affect the baby is gone from iplayer
<Myrtti> was a good show, might have been in horizon or smth
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS:  hmm, seems changing fstab to just defaults,nls=utf8 has suddenly give the drives a chmod of 777
<MartijnVdS> EEK
<MartijnVdS> ntfs defaults are strÃ¤nge
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: and they now show up as being highlighted in the terminal
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: yes, world-writable tends to be bad
<MartijnVdS> so it has a special colour
<HazRPG> well yeah, I realise its bad... I mean I was like "woah, what!?" when I saw it
<HazRPG> should I put in defaults,nls=utf8,umask=1000,gid=1000?
<MartijnVdS> umask=022 then
<HazRPG> or would setting it as me:me be bad?
<MartijnVdS> uid=1000 you mean :)
<HazRPG> sorry yes
<HazRPG> umask=022?
<kazade> morning all
<MooDoo> morning
<popey> pip pip
<HazRPG> hmm, changed it to: "defaults,nls=utf8,umask=022" seems to be working better (I umount'ed them and then did mount -a)
<HazRPG> which is now looking a lot nicer
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Muchos grasias ^_^
<bigcalm> I tried to open the bookmark manager in chromium and it quit the browser. Yay
<bigcalm> Cannot reproduce :(
<HazRPG> bigcalm: :(
<HazRPG> bigcalm: I recall something like that about a year or so ago, I thought I'd since been fixed :(
<HazRPG> It'd*
<HazRPG> although, likewise, was hard to reproduce
 * HazRPG needs to think about what to write in a blog post
<AlanBell> pick a wikileaks cable and write about it
<Laney> do you remember deb a day?
<Laney> revive that!
<Laney> http://web.archive.org/web/20090627021509/http://debaday.debian.net/
<popey> which reminds me of:-
<popey> apt-cache show $(grep -h 'Package: ' /var/lib/apt/lists/*_Packages | cut -d' ' -f2 | grep -v ^lib | shuf -n 1)
<popey> which will show you a random package from the repository :D
<popey> I have discovered a few new things to me from that
<HazRPG> AlanBell: hmm... interesting... maybe
<HazRPG> Laney: no I don't, shall have a read though the archives though :)
<bigcalm> popey: and I just discovered xpad from that. Might actually use it
<popey> win
<HazRPG> Laney: heh, interesting site... I wonder why they spotted...
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: hmm, heh, apparently I can't write to /media/music (decided to call it music instead)
<bigcalm> popey: aliased that to apt-random :D
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: ls -ld /media/music :)
<HazRPG> I used ll
<HazRPG> but yeah: drwxr-xr-x 1 root root 32768 2011-09-07 09:46 /media/music
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: *ping* ^_^
<MartijnVdS> pong
<MartijnVdS> uhr
<MartijnVdS> mount | grep "/media/music"
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: nothing shows
<MartijnVdS> so.. it's not mounted?
<HazRPG> should be... I can see the folder of stuff (cos it won't let me write to it)
<HazRPG> and I tab-completed that, so its definitely the right folder
<DJones> HazRPG: Are you using nautilus to write to it or command line?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: check /proc/mounts then
<HazRPG> DJones: nautilus
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: ah, then it could be gvfs mucking about?
<HazRPG> maybe?
<HazRPG> does it help if I said I said, I umounted them and then "mount -a"
<DJones> HazRPG: I seem to remember that once you change the folder permissions by command line, nautilus doesn't pick that up until it or the desktop environment is restarted, try creating a file in a terminal to see if it works from that
<MartijnVdS> touch \o/
<HazRPG> touch idd!
<HazRPG> nope... permission denied if I do it as me
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: so chown the mount point
<MartijnVdS> and maybe fix the mount options to include a uid/group you're part of (if you choose group, set the umask to 0002 instead of 0022)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: won't that be reset the next I reboot
<HazRPG> (the chown I mean)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: probably, I don't know
<HazRPG> so does umask=0002,gid=1000 sound sane?
<DJones> HazRPG: my /media/music folder has drwxrwxrwx  7 root root  4096 2010-08-21 14:32 music
<HazRPG> DJones: guessing you just left it as "default"
<HazRPG> "defaults" even
<DJones> I connect to that via nfs from a number of machines & have no problems with creating files
<HazRPG> DJones: yours an ntfs partition too?
<DJones> No, ext3
<HazRPG> ah, see this partition is legacy for me, its from when I used windows...
<HazRPG> (which I haven't actually booted in over 9 months)
<DJones> I did change the permissions using gksudo nautilus rather than using terminal
<HazRPG> ah
<HazRPG> see that's just it though, the folder itself (before mounting that is) is actually owned by me
<HazRPG> so /media/music/ = hazrpg:hazrpg before it gets mounted
<HazRPG> I'm guessing mounting overrides that
<HazRPG> (unless otherwise stated in the mount command/fstab)
<HazRPG> half tempted to just put this back to "defaults,nls=utf8,umask=007,gid=46"
<davmor2> morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2 sorry you haven't won the pool
<davmor2> MooDoo: Dammit did you not tell her I was splitting the winning with you?
<davmor2> MooDoo: still in labour or has she had it?
<MooDoo> davmor2: lol we thought it was going to happen last night and it all fizzled out....still in labour...nothing appeared yet
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<davmor2> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning davmor2
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: think I've got my permissions sorted out ^_^
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: much thanks ^_^
<HazRPG> davmor2: mornin dude
<HazRPG> DJones: cheers for helping too
<davmor2> morning HazRPG
<brobostigon> morning HazRPG :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: morning ^_^
<HazRPG> hmm, here's an interesting question for ya all
<HazRPG> in nautilus, on the left-hand pane... can the drives not be sorted in some way?
<HazRPG> i.e. forced in a specific order, so that they're always in the same locations
<brobostigon> good question, no idea.
<HazRPG> and then new drives always tacked on the end
<brobostigon> there maybe some gconf keys to change it?
<HazRPG> it always frustrates me that they seem to have a little dance about on the screen each time I boot up (I understand roughly /why/ they show up in different locations, I just wish you could force it to always show up the same based on its UUID or something)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: I was thinking the same, already googling it ^_^
<brobostigon> :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: seems its been a requested feature (well listed as a bug...) but got canned, saying it was "fixed" ... but yet the guy reopened it and said that it still wasn't fixed, and no ones followed it through since 2009
<brobostigon> hmm, interesting.
<HazRPG> apparently its organised by uuid, which is totally unintuitive to the user
<brobostigon> it could be set my sort, by connection?
<MartijnVdS> you can give drives a label
<MartijnVdS> and use that
<MartijnVdS> (LABEL=)
<HazRPG> I can understand why the devs probably did it that way, but its lazy just to not make things easier for people actually using it
<DJones> HazRPG: What would it sort by if you didn't use uuid's, but stuck with the old type /sda etc
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: My drives do have labels... i.e. "MP3's", "300GB", "Win7", "Storage", "Installs"
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: you can use those instead of UUIDs when mounting
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: check /dev/disk/by-label (I think?)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I swap hard drives around, that would assume I put the same drive in the same port each time iirc :P
<HazRPG> here's the bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/256359
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 256359 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "the sidebar volumes are not sorted alphabetically" [Low,Triaged]
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: no, that's /dev/sda sdb etc
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: labels are "MP3s" etc. :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I know ^_^
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: so as long as you don't have multiple drives with the same label, you're fine
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: how would you set it to sort by label? gconf?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: oh SORT by label.. what?
<MartijnVdS> (what is "it"?)
<HazRPG> (lulz)
<MartijnVdS> oh nautilus sidebar
<HazRPG> yeah ^_^
<MartijnVdS> I always thought it ordered by insertion time
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: oh? I.e. via fstab order?
<MartijnVdS> no.. time you inserted the USB connector into the socket
<HazRPG> what about regular drives :P?
<MartijnVdS> no idea
<HazRPG> seems this guy feels my pain: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=7081955
<HazRPG> and its weird to see that root actually does alphabetically order them o.O
<HazRPG> in fact, as root, it even displays them by their mount name - which is even better
<HazRPG> heh, this one annoys me too: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=570922
<lubotu3> Debian bug 570922 in gvfs "gvfs: launching gparted causes duplicate entries for partitions in nautilus 'Places'" [Normal,Open]
<HazRPG> clearly I'm just too OCD
<HazRPG> ooooo gconf->app->nautilus->preferences->show_advanced_permissions
<HazRPG> I likes :)
<HazRPG> also, volumes_visible (desktop) = false == win \o/
<HazRPG> I should play with gconf more
 * directhex moos
 * popey cuddles directhex 
<HazRPG> ah, I give up lol
<HazRPG> fixed some of my gripes though ^_^
 * HazRPG gets ready to go into town to see an old friend who is currently visiting
<brobostigon> interesting, a conservative mp, dissing the libdems. and saying they have too much power, for the amount of mp's they have.
<directhex> they do. but they have disproportionately few MPs for the votes they have.
<directhex> so it balances out
<brobostigon> quite, yes, but it was funny, the way said mp said it.
<directhex> back-bench tories are furious about the coalition
<brobostigon> that was the impression, yes.
<directhex> they deserved to win outright. it was their turn!
<directhex> the coalition is a humiliation, and proof that hug-a-hoodie cameron is no good. if they had a true tory leader like thatcher, they would have won a landslide
<directhex> etc etc etc
<MartijnVdS> ##politics \o/
<diplo> Anyone here use XBMC and have a SQLite db I can use to write some stuff for ?
<diplo> Will just wait till I get home later otherwise
<brobostigon> ##politics-uk :)
<Myrtti> oo
<Myrtti> the show I was talking about earlier: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b013ywz4/Horizon_20112012_The_Nine_Months_That_Made_You/
<MooDoo> i'll have a watch of that
<MartijnVdS> anyone on Oneiric that can confirm this? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/flashplugin-nonfree/+bug/840826
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 840826 in flashplugin-nonfree (Ubuntu) "Firefox (flash) mute pulseaudio and do not appear in sound app list" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<bigcalm> Any time I issue a shutdown, suspend or hibernate (via the GUI, not via halt), it appears to do a reboot instead. What might cause that?
<bigcalm> Only happening on my workstation
<Myrtti> sounds somewhat familiar
<Myrtti> but I'm too sugarhigh to remember why
<Myrtti> annoying
<bigcalm> It's a fairly recent change as well
<bigcalm> Around the time I added a 2nd nvidia graphics card
 * bigcalm hugs Myrtti
<Myrtti> I hate when this happens
<Myrtti> it's a bit like putting my hand into non-newtonian liquid
<bigcalm> Fun?
<Myrtti> frustrating
<Myrtti> both, but mostly frustrating
<bigcalm> How might I go about debugging this reboot problem?
<gord> bigcalm, on O?
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: i have that too
<dogmatic69> 10.10 x64
<dogmatic69> i have to use terminal now, sudo shutdown -p 0 iirc
<Myrtti> oh good grief
<Myrtti> was just on the brink of a nervous breakdown - couldn't find my banking keys
<dogmatic69> Myrtti: good way to save money ;)
<bigcalm> gord: on 0?
<gord> oneiric?
<bigcalm> Oh, no
<bigcalm> 11.04
<gord> no idea then
<Myrtti> dogmatic69: losing money you mean - if I can't pay my bills in time
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: well its the same for 10.10
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: it's only recently started happening for me in 11.04 and only one one machine
<dogmatic69> ye, started on my box about 2 or 3 weeks ago
<bigcalm> Aha
<dogmatic69> real annoying
<bigcalm> So was an update to both versions
<bigcalm> Hummz
<dogmatic69> shortly after that my logout button went completely.. could not use it even if i wanted to
<Laney> check /var/log/kern.log or /var/log/kern.log.1 to see if something crashed
<dogmatic69> Laney: i reboot that pc every day
<DJones> Nice specifications for a laptop http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/41967/msi-gt683dxr-gt780dxr-gaming-laptops , potentially 16Gb/1.5TB, i7, GTX570M, 17.3" screen
<directhex> no word on weight
<directhex> i'd want an alienware m11x as a gaming laptop, personally
<DJones> they broke the scales
<directhex> or the new razer
<DJones> I've looked at both of them, they look nice
<shauno> most people aren't worried about weight when they buy a 17" gaming laptop :)  they're just going to bolt table-legs to the bottom of it anyway ..
<directhex> shauno, i have very strict requirements
<directhex> it'd take a lot for me to consider a laptop >2kg
<ali1234> i don't understand why people buy huge laptops as desktop replacements
<DJones> My HP laptop is 17" screen, that weighs 3.1kgs, thats just bearable, although can get heavy sat on my lap
<ali1234> you are paying 3x as much for a rubbish screen and a rubbish keyboard
<dogmatic69> ali1234: i dont know why people buy laptops.
<dogmatic69> they suck :P
<ali1234> yes, they do
<ali1234> but sometimes you need it to be portable
<Myrtti> I got a Dell 6510 instead of 6410, because I travel a lot, but I also usually tend to find a table to put my laptop on
<Myrtti> carrying it isn't such a chore
<Myrtti> but the ability of watching movies on hi-res weighed more
<hamitron> ali1234: I bought a desktop replacement whilst at uni, because it was easier to move than a desktop
<diplo> Anyone got any idea why fdisk -l would list a ext3 drive as ntfs ?
<hamitron> and the weight just saves gym membership
<hamitron> ;)
<diplo>  Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
<diplo> /dev/sde1               1       30401   244196001    7  HPFS/NTFS
<diplo> /dev/sde1 on /media/usb1 type ext3 (rw)
 * hamitron has never tried formating a ntfs partition with ext3
<hamitron> could that be it?
<directhex> diplo, yes.
<directhex> diplo, the partition type is a tag in the partition table. the file system you use need not be related
<diplo> ah right cool thanks, did wonder if it was something like that
<directhex> partition type 7 us HPFS/NTFS
<directhex> 83 is Linux, which is commonly used for any linux FS
<directhex> except lvm or swap
<diplo> thanks directhex
<hamitron> does windows update the Id if you format a ext3 partition inside the admin thingie?
<directhex> hamitron, pass.
<hamitron> I'm gonna ahve to try it
<hamitron> :/
<directhex> hamitron, do you want it to be ntfs or ext?
<hamitron> it is ext3 atm, gonna remove data, then format it to ntfs in windows
<directhex> hamitron, format it to ntfs in ubuntu ;)
<hamitron> but I wanna check what windows does
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> I also don't run ubuntu on this machine
<HypnoBox> Anyone had an issue with ustream not detecting line input ? I can capture line in through audacity, without needing to select anything. Also the sound mixer shows the vu meter doing stuff in time with input audio. Just seems ustream isn't working for me. (using an eeepc 901)
<hamitron> directhex: gotta delete volume
<hamitron> :/
<dogmatic69> has anyone seen this before? n a non-object in /var/www/trunk/LeanWebAppWebroot/app/vendors/dompdf/include/cellmap.cls.php on line 560, referer: https://e6.geneo.co.uk/pdf/prepareStandard/177?revisionNumber=1
<dogmatic69> wrong paste...
<dogmatic69> client sent HTTP/1.1 request without hostname (see RFC2616 section 14.23): /w00tw00t.at.ISC.SANS.DFind:)
<hamitron> dogmatic69:  http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2616.txt see section 14.23
 * hamitron is loads of help ;/
<dogmatic69> :D
<dogmatic69> nothing like reading a RFC
<hamitron> certainly not something to be done, near the end of the day
<dogmatic69> or first thing in the morning
<hamitron> or ever
<hamitron> :D
<hamitron> at least that section is less than a screen of text
<dogmatic69> reverse-i-search is awesome
<theFred> hello daubers
<daubers> o/
 * daubers dislikes going to london :(
 * tonytiger too
<davmor2> tonytiger: congratulations dude
<davmor2> does of course mean more spam for a certain excellent podcast on planet.ubuntu.com though right :D
<theFred> hey folks, does 10.04 lts play nice with the sun 3d looking glass desktop?
<daubers> theFred: Didn't realise that was still under development
<daubers> Thought it was dropped years ago
<theFred> prob not, but i've never actually tried it out
<JGJones> Yay! Tablet returned from ASUS after repairs! Boo! They forgot my chargers!
<hamitron> :/
<davmor2> JGJones: That's asus saying you don't use it you won't break it :P
<JGJones> bah...it was them that broke it (light bleed in middle of screen - a 1cm spot)
<davmor2> JGJones: did you use it?
<JGJones> ....i touched it....but it was my dog that ate my tablet
<JGJones> don't think that excuse work anymore...
<davmor2> JGJones: There you go then now you won't send it back cause you can't use it ;)
<daubers> is it just me or does the whole ldiff thing in ldap seem like a pain in the bum
 * czajkowski hugs davmor2 
<davmor2> is now concerned as to what I did or didn't do to upset czajkowski today
 * czajkowski tickles davmor2 
<davmor2> is now really concerned
<czajkowski> MooDoo: any sign
<davmor2> MooDoo: careful she's being pleasant it's a trap ;)
<Azelphur> this is pretty cool, I'm actually buying lots of things online with bitcoins now :D
<Azelphur> paying my WoW subscription with bitcoins, and shopping for a laptop for my mum
<davmor2> Azelphur: you getting a nice collection of bit coins in then I take it :)
<Azelphur> indeed :)
<davmor2> Azelphur: and is that just from the mad mining farm you set up?
<Azelphur> yep
<Azelphur> davmor2: don't forget the Â£1300ish in cash I made :D
<MartijnVdS> Ah so that's your plan
<MartijnVdS> have every Ubuntu machine be part of your mining botnet!
<Azelphur> haha
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: That would be one powerful beast of a bot
<MartijnVdS> or maybe that's sabdfl's plan :)
<Azelphur> only thing is I'm just above the poverty line with mining atm
<Azelphur> might have to switch to mining at night for lower electric bills :p
<popey> Economy 7
<directhex> Azelphur, mining is still profitable? i gave up around the time of the mt gox hack
<bigcalm> Made me think of Party 7 then, though I'm not old enough to have experienced one
<hamitron> if MH/J is 0.8, I'd break even atm
<Azelphur> directhex: yea it's still profitable, but only barely
<hamitron> coins are slightly more than double electricity costs on good cards :)
<hamitron> as a reference
<hamitron> bbl o/
<Azelphur> http://nokiatune.audiodraft.com/entries/mostliked is pretty cool :P
<Azelphur> funny how far people have taken the little beepy nokia tune.
<Azelphur> haha, upvote the great marvelous for great justice.
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] The obligatory Hello Planet Ubuntu post - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2011/09/07/the-obligatory-hello-planet-ubuntu-post/
<dogmatic69> if doing scp from server1 -> server2 can i start server2->server3 while its still busy doing server1->server2 ?
<dogmatic69> the same file
<MartijnVdS> you could but you'll probably get half a file
<MartijnVdS> on server3
<dogmatic69> k
<dogmatic69> would it not just stream till the file is finished, or does it check some things like size first
<MartijnVdS> you could cat | ssh some_host "tee some_file | ssh some_other_host"
<MartijnVdS> though I don't know how that will cope with entering passwords
<MartijnVdS> you could cat | ssh some_host "tee some_file | ssh some_other_host 'cat > some_file'"
<MartijnVdS> sorry, second command line actually WRITES the file on machine3 :)
<MartijnVdS> this feels way too brittle :)
<dogmatic69> ye, specially with a .tgz file
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: that's even cooler :)
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: if you want to untar at the same time
<dogmatic69> well then you just paying for more bandwidth
<MartijnVdS> no you untar at the other end
<MartijnVdS> so it's the same
<dogmatic69> ah ok
<MartijnVdS> also.. paying for bandwidth? Which century is this? :)
<dogmatic69> aws
<MartijnVdS> (except on 3G)
<MartijnVdS> ah aws
<dogmatic69> its like 5p for 1gig or something
<MartijnVdS> not a terrible amount
<dogmatic69> *0.008 USD per gig
<Azelphur> Is there a website I can use to put a bounty on features for open source projects?
<justinBUJITSUBRO> howdy yall i was hoping somone would help me
<justinBUJITSUBRO> my mouse is not working right
<justinBUJITSUBRO> i can open up the programs from the application button but i cant sellect anything inside of a window
<justinBUJITSUBRO> my right button wont work coreectly
<justinBUJITSUBRO> can any one help me ?
<popey> Azelphur: why not contact the author?
<Azelphur> popey: because it's nicer to have something that anyone can put money into the pot on
<popey> depends
<popey> the author may already want to do it
<popey> or may know someone who does
<popey> what is it?
<Azelphur> he probably does, atm I'm interested in getting the bravo minecraft server up and running
<tonytiger> or may already have a pit
<tonytiger> erm
<tonytiger> pot
<Azelphur> so I wanted to put up some stuff for crucial features, like npc support :)
<popey> ah the python one?
<Azelphur> popey: yea, it's really nice
<popey> does it work well?
<Azelphur> popey: it's amazing, it's like a work of art, it just isn't finished yet
<popey> got a server I can connect to? :D
<Azelphur> it uses twisted and ampoule in the backend so it's seriously scalable and fast
<Azelphur> I have a local server running you can connect to, nothing particularly public
<justinBUJITSUBRO> can somone please teel me how to open a root acount so i can acsses it at the login screen
<popey> you dont want to do that
<Azelphur> ^
<justinBUJITSUBRO> honestly i think its may be my only hop
<justinBUJITSUBRO> my mouse has gone haywire
<Azelphur> then replace your mouse?
<Azelphur> logging in as root isn't going to repair a broken mouse
<justinBUJITSUBRO> i cant select any i cant its a lap top
<justinBUJITSUBRO> but it works good on my guest account
<justinBUJITSUBRO> it very strange it wont work wright on my personal account
<justinBUJITSUBRO> i cant selct things in an open window i can only close it using the "x" button at the top
<justinBUJITSUBRO> i think that is i open a root account add a new admin and tranfer all the files to that i account every thing will work again
<justinBUJITSUBRO> but i am really lost as to waht to do
<justinBUJITSUBRO> yall have any sugestions?
<Azelphur> justinBUJITSUBRO if you want to create a new user, create a new user
<Azelphur> justinBUJITSUBRO there's still no requirement to login as root
<Azelphur> popey: pm'd you an address :)
<justinBUJITSUBRO> ok but i cant select any thing in side a window
<Azelphur> I thought it worked when you logged in as guest
<justinBUJITSUBRO> agin i must apoligize i doont know much how do i find the url from popeye?
<Azelphur> justinBUJITSUBRO that was me talking to someone else, hense putting his name at the front of the statement :P
<justinBUJITSUBRO> yes as guest the ouse works great but i want to creat a new personal acount
<justinBUJITSUBRO> oh i get sorry
<justinBUJITSUBRO> this is my laptop its a emachine E525 and has givin me trouble since the day i bought brand new down at wal mart
<justinBUJITSUBRO> is it possible to "reset" my mouse in my personal admin acount ussing terminal?
<dogmatic69> i have created a zip of / on one server and would like to extract it to /some/folder
<dogmatic69> will it be forced to / cos that is what was zipped?
<Azelphur> justinBUJITSUBRO you could just backup and reload if you've done something bad to break things
<Azelphur> or try googling your problem, because I really don't know :P
<Azelphur> popey: so yea it looks really good, just missing features basically :D
<justinBUJITSUBRO> ok thank you ill try
<tonytiger> O_o
<Azelphur> popey: and it should be perfectly capable of scaling to thousands of players across multiple physical servers
<Azelphur> while using hardly any resources
<czajkowski> tonytiger: is that you I see
<czajkowski> welcome :p
<tonytiger> czajkowski: only until I next ping out ;)
<czajkowski> hehe
<MonsterKiller> hey, just installed an ubuntu 10.10 vps and for every package i try apt-get install for it just says package not found
<Azelphur> MonsterKiller: your on a VPS, common practice of VPS hosts is to mess with sources.list to save bandwith
<Azelphur> typical practice of cheap VPS hosts :)
<MonsterKiller> xD
<Azelphur> pastebin /etc/apt/sources.list
<MonsterKiller> http://paste.monsterprojects.org/mpbwbrhehwhewhr
<Azelphur> so yea, obviously been messed with :P
<Azelphur> your missing multiverse entirely
<Azelphur> MonsterKiller: replace it with http://pastebin.com/GAwGtTYW
<MonsterKiller> thanks :)
<Azelphur> keep a backup of your old one in case I got it wrong
<Azelphur> :P
<MonsterKiller> when i reload the list i get http://paste.monsterprojects.org/mpbwbrhekjkezjs
<Azelphur> mtr us.archive.ubuntu.com ?
<MonsterKiller> it doesnt have mtr \o/
<MonsterKiller> ping google.com, ping: unknown host google.com
<MonsterKiller> \o/
<Azelphur> nice internet you have there
<MonsterKiller> haha
<justinBUJITSUBRO> azelphur: ru available?
<Azelphur> depends, are you female?
<justinBUJITSUBRO> no :) not quite
<Azelphur> lol not quite
<justinBUJITSUBRO> yea i no i am bad at typing
<justinBUJITSUBRO> i checked the google but no real definitve answer
<justinBUJITSUBRO> about my mouse problem
<justinBUJITSUBRO> it seems tho i can hover over and the item will hig light but when i go to dbl click it wont proses the cmd
<justinBUJITSUBRO> do you know any one i could ask?
<Azelphur> was it working before?
<justinBUJITSUBRO> yes i was wacthing a movie left turnd off the laptop came back and it no longer worked
<justinBUJITSUBRO> (i have to ussaly turn off my laptop by holding down the power button when the couputer gets to the logo of ubuntu and the flashing dots
<justinBUJITSUBRO> usally at this point "the flashing dots" normaly the laptop would shut off on its own but mine never has
<Azelphur> sounds like you did something
<Azelphur> but without knowing what you did I still have no idea :)
<justinBUJITSUBRO> i know right
<justinBUJITSUBRO> i am lost also i made no configuration changes sicne 3 days ago
<justinBUJITSUBRO> and that was only to get the usb working on my virtual box
<Azelphur> as I say if all else fails there's always backup and reload XD
<justinBUJITSUBRO> wats that?
<justinBUJITSUBRO> sorry i aint to bright
<Azelphur> how did you end up on ubuntu?
<justinBUJITSUBRO> i got into it 2 yrs ago from a tech at the unversity of belize
<Azelphur> yea, so you installed it yourself right?
<justinBUJITSUBRO> sicne then it has been my only os up to 2weeks ago when my wife wanted win so i tried to figure out virtual box and got it working for her
<justinBUJITSUBRO> yes i bout this laptop 1.5 yr ago brand new and did a live disk w/ 8 somthing
<justinBUJITSUBRO> and the upgrade to 10.04 lts
<justinBUJITSUBRO> and it has worked ok for me so far
<diplo> evening all
<justinBUJITSUBRO> just strange hardwehre problems
<justinBUJITSUBRO> it might be due to the os itergration suport for this spesific brand and model laptop
<justinBUJITSUBRO> i reaallyy dont know wish i did
<justinBUJITSUBRO> azelphur: can the program back in time help ?
<Azelphur> never heard of it
<justinBUJITSUBRO> oh ok what would be the best way of backing up my computer keping all the programs
<justinBUJITSUBRO> and files i have
<Azelphur> !backup | justinBUJITSUBRO
<lubotu3> justinBUJITSUBRO: There are many ways to back your system up. Here's a few: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BackupYourSystem , https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DuplicityBackupHowto , https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HomeUserBackup , https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MondoMindi - See also !sbackup and !cloning
<justinBUJITSUBRO> i have herd of the cloning wher do i go for that/
<Azelphur> !cloning | justinBUJITSUBRO
<lubotu3> justinBUJITSUBRO: To replicate your packages selection on another machine (or restore it if re-installing), you can type Â« aptitude  --display-format '%p' search '?installed!?automatic' > ~/my-packages Â», move the file "my-packages" to the other machine, and there type Â« sudo xargs aptitude --schedule-only install < my-packages ; sudo aptitude install Â» - See also !automate
<Azelphur> oO, that's fancy
<justinBUJITSUBRO> shur is i get lost w/ stuff like that maby one day ill get that good
<justinBUJITSUBRO> just so yall know i live in belize and rarly get to vist the internet
<justinBUJITSUBRO> thanks for all the help yall yull never know how much its been apreicated thank you
<Azelphur> :)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu Membership Next Steps - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/09/07/ubuntu-membership-next-steps/
<andylockran> guys is there a 3G wireless router you can get?
<andylockran> Sister is moving to a flat without a phoneline - fancies something along those lines.
<Azelphur> andylockran: popey has one
<popey> Azelphur: you can get a mifi?
<Azelphur> andylockran: ^
<popey> I have a netgear WNDR3700 running OpenWRT with a 3G dongle
<popey> er, yes, him
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> we all look alike us ircers, amirite.
<andylockran> popey: thanks
<andylockran> popey: which network you on?
<andylockran> http://zrmt.com/2011/09/07/converting-documents/ - if someone has familiarity with beautifulsoup / python / xml I could really do with a hand
<popey> andylockran: its a 3 dongle
<andylockran> popey: thanks
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Andy Loughran] Converting Documents - http://zrmt.com/2011/09/07/converting-documents/
<ali1234> andylockran: was it you the other day with the mangled xml in utf16 or something?
<andylockran> yup :)
<ali1234> well this is the advice i always give to anyone trying to parse xml: don't
<ali1234> use an xml parser
<andylockran> ali1234: I thought I was dealing with an xml doc.. turned out to be a OOXML doc
<andylockran> ali1234: such as?
<ali1234> python has two in the standard library
<andylockran> lxml?
<ali1234> http://docs.python.org/library/markup.html
<ali1234> xml tools seem really complicated when you look at the xml and think you can parse it
<ali1234> this is a really really big mistake
<ali1234> they are complicated for a reason
<ali1234> and if you try to parse yourself you'll just go mad or write yet complex another xml parser
<ali1234> so now i said that i'll read your post
<cps> evening folks
<ali1234> OOXML is the ebil mixrosoft one right?
<ali1234> for all its flaws i have never heard anything about them not being valid xml
<andylockran> ali1234: your input would be appreciated.
<ali1234> i have wrangled OOXML before
<ali1234> pretty much doing what you are doing
<ali1234> you know theres a python lib specially for ripping data from OOXML spreadsheets?
<ali1234> if that's all you need that would be perfect
<ali1234> it can't write docs, only read them
<ali1234> 1 sec
<ali1234> if you need to create OOXML docs then your best bet is ironpython and the office CLR bindings (which are horrid, but still better than any other way)
<ali1234> andylockran: check this out : http://pypi.python.org/pypi/ooxml
<andylockran> ali1234: it's a docx file I believe
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> same thing
<andylockran> and I want to convert that xml stanza to a spreadsheet
<ali1234> oh, so you want to rip from a text document?
<andylockran> well, csv to then import into excel.
<ali1234> into a spreadsheet?
<andylockran> yeah
<ali1234> ok then
<ali1234> well, that is even easier
<ali1234> you probably already figured out there's only really 1 interesting file inside the zip bundle
<andylockran> so take the h2, h3 tags, and then use them as the first two columns for as long as the p repeats itself..
<andylockran> the data structure is on that blog
<ali1234> look in the python ooxml module at how it opens the xml files
<ali1234> it uses a real xml parser
<ali1234> just steal that code and adapt it :)
<andylockran> http://pypi.python.org/pypi/ooxml
<andylockran> ali1234: the ooxml mod only works with xslx
<ali1234> wrong
<ali1234> it only has a high level interface on xlsx
<andylockran> right, ok
<ali1234> but it uses the standard xml parser to open any docx format
<ali1234> all of which are nothing but zipped bundles of xml files
<ali1234> pretty much what you are going to do is copy and paste the spreadsheet.py file
<ali1234> and make it read docx instead of xlsx
<ali1234> which is going to be quite easy
<justinBUJITSUBRO> h
<justinBUJITSUBRO> azelphur: are you free:
<justinBUJITSUBRO> )
<Azelphur> nope, I was captured a few days ago :(
<justinBUJITSUBRO> dude ur hellarious
<justinBUJITSUBRO> i found out that the problem w/ my mouse has somthing to do with the window maneger
<justinBUJITSUBRO> does that make any sence to u?
<justinBUJITSUBRO> cuz i am kida lost but
<Azelphur> justinBUJITSUBRO yea I figured it would be, but still far too vague
<Azelphur> justinBUJITSUBRO do you know if your using compiz or metacity?
<justinBUJITSUBRO> using the cmd metacity --replace& has gotten me back my mouse functions but  i lost on proformance
<Azelphur> by performance do you mean graphical effects
<Azelphur> because metacity is waaaaay faster than compiz
<justinBUJITSUBRO> i ges so cuz the minimize all button says it wont work
<justinBUJITSUBRO> b/c
<justinBUJITSUBRO> i either dont have a mangeger or my maeger dont soport that function
<justinBUJITSUBRO> so i guress its graphical
<justinBUJITSUBRO> not hard where preformance
<Azelphur> lets try something fun
<Azelphur> install the ccsm package
<justinBUJITSUBRO> ok
<justinBUJITSUBRO> its done what now?
<Azelphur> system > preferences > compizconfig settings manager
<Azelphur> preferences, reset do defaults
<justinBUJITSUBRO> aight did that
<justinBUJITSUBRO> w8
<Azelphur> see if that solves your problem
<ali1234> andylockran: so do you have a docx or a html file? or both?
<justinBUJITSUBRO> do defaults
<justinBUJITSUBRO> ?
<Azelphur> reset to defaults*
<justinBUJITSUBRO> ok my bad yea i did that ill jus log out n log in agin
<justinBUJITSUBRO> yeaaaaa
<justinBUJITSUBRO> i hope thats alowd here
<Azelphur> solved?
<ali1234> andylockran: is that html file just the xml ripped from the docx?
<justinBUJITSUBRO> thank you very much
<justinBUJITSUBRO> yes it is i would love  to know what i did to screw it up
<justinBUJITSUBRO> Azelphur: ill wash ur feet when u get married
<justinBUJITSUBRO> thankyou
<Azelphur> :D
<Azelphur> something clearly was wrong in your compiz config
<justinBUJITSUBRO> mos def
<justinBUJITSUBRO> aight yall i gota get going to bu-jitsu class i m almost L8 thanks man
<Azelphur> :)
 * ali1234 wanders off to do something else
<andylockran> ali1234: I'm not sure.
<andylockran> I was given the htm from the girlfriend
<andylockran> not sure what generated it
<andylockran> just looked like ms stuff
<ali1234> so the html is the only thing you have?
<andylockran> yup
<ali1234> well it isn't docx
<ali1234> it is docx saved as html
<ali1234> which is different
<ali1234> no point trying to open it with a docx reader
<andylockran> ah, ok
<AlanBell> evening all
<popey> nice meal?
<AlanBell> oh yeah :)
<popey> :D
<AlanBell> dutchie: I kinda like your college :)
<Pendulum> AlanBell: having fun?
<AlanBell> having lots of very very nice food
<AlanBell> https://plus.google.com/109175303602657131317/posts/ZgjT3pCFEmb
<AlanBell> the duck was superb
 * AlanBell takes photo of the menu
<ikonia> ah, people are still awake
<AlanBell> for small values of awake
#ubuntu-uk 2011-09-08
<ali1234> andylockran: the doctree on this html file is absolutely nothing like you said it was :(
<ali1234> andylockran: this doesn't work but it is a start: http://paste.ubuntu.com/684832/
<ali1234> andylockran: i think i said this before, but the formatting of the content is going to be the problem here, not malformed xml
<ali1234> since all this stuff was entered manually into word and exported to html, the xml is going to be perfect. but the content will be full of errors that need manually fixing anyway
<ali1234> which is why they hired someone to just copy paste and fix it all
<AlanBell> morning all
<hoover> morning all
<MooDoo> .away
<MooDoo> morning
<christel> morning tinkerbell, MooDoo
<MooDoo> not evil today christel
<MooDoo> ?
<christel> no, incredibly well behaved!
<christel> :D
<MooDoo> christel: boring ;)
<christel> any hatching yet? :)
 * AlanBell doesn't believe that
<MooDoo> christel: monday at the latest
<christel> MooDoo: *nod*
<AlanBell> my eldest was 13 days over in the end
<christel> AlanBell: when are we pubbing next
<AlanBell> christel: good question, so we have the 17th all lined up in London
<AlanBell> but we should schedule the next one
<christel> yes!
<AlanBell> and by 17th I clearly mean the 22nd
<AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1257/detail/
<AlanBell> October 20th looks good for the second one
<AlanBell> which might be the Farnborough area one
<AlanBell> prince of Wales by Popey's house
<christel> oooh you've moved it from the 17th
<AlanBell> yes
<AlanBell> it didn't stay long on the 17th :)
<christel> hehe
<AlanBell> maybe Nottingham in November
<AlanBell> MooDoo will probably be allowed out by then
<christel> haha
<christel> ...or will he?
 * AlanBell heads off for breakfast o/
<christel> nom
<MooDoo> christel: depends if i get a pass :)
<christel> hehe
<DJones> Morning
<christel> morning DJones
<DJones> Hi christel
<DJones> & MooDoo
<DJones> Any sign yet MooDoo
<MooDoo> DJones: nothing yet, but it's going to be no later than monday
<DJones> Heh, gives you chance to get the birthday out of the way tomorrow then
<MooDoo> yeah
<daubers> Morning
<MooDoo> morning
 * daubers needs to do some mqtt/arduino hacking for work 
 * hoover 's playing around with wuala after Randal's recommendation on g+... nice!
<Gary> hoover: can you go clean my house, thanks
<bigcalm> Morning peeps :)
<popey> Morning all
<JamesTait> Mornin' all!
<MooDoo> morning popey JamesTait
<MooDoo> ffs why isn't single sign on letting me in .... grrrrr
<MooDoo> ah  me being a pillock, that's what it is
<danfish> most excellent - I have a full 'pass' from the other half for the 22nd meetup in Londinium
<MooDoo> danfish: you lucky lucky thing ;)
<danfish> MooDoo: I'll drink a beer for you :D
<MooDoo> danfish: thanks pal :D
<daubers> danfish: I can't make the 22nd :( Off to Birmingham for the day on the s4th so have no monies
<danfish> daubers: :( I'm sure there will be others
<HazRPG> \o
<daubers> danfish: Indeed. Readings already on the list and that's a 10 minute bus trip away \o/
<HazRPG> I wish irssi-proxy showed the last set of highlights or lines.
<daubers> HazRPG: If wishes where horses, we'd all be eating steak
<bigcalm> Can I have horse steak?
<christel> nom.
<bigcalm> I've had oxen, that was divine
<oimon> eaten horse in russia..tasted like a chewy braised steak
<aquarius_> HazRPG, not necessarily helpful, but bip does
<AlanBell> ooh quadrocopters
<danfish> AlanBell: ooh - where, where? Me want quadcopter!
<AlanBell> at the transfer summit thing
<danfish> AlanBell: are they open source?
<AlanBell> a little I think
<smittix> Anyone know of any Minecraft servers?
<MooDoo> smittix: popeys
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<dogmatic69> o/
<czajkowski> Aloha
<gord> Ni how
<MooDoo> morning
<MooDoo> smittix: join #ubuntu-uk-minecraft
<czajkowski> MooDoo: well????
<MooDoo> czajkowski: nothing at moment.  if nothing happens over the next 4 days, we're getting induced on monday
<czajkowski> have you made her eat lots of hot curries
<Laney> I wouldn't want to come out either
<Laney> having just missed summer
<MooDoo> czajkowski: yes and pineapple and other things to get her started
<AlanBell> danfish: it is open source
<danfish> AlanBell: great - prob arduino controlled
<daubers> Have been tempted to build a quadrocopter
<daubers> but suspect the idea wouldn't take off
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> MooDoo: you a dad again yet?
<dogmatic69> daubers: ha... ha...
<dogmatic69> :P
 * daubers gets his coat
<MooDoo> davmor2: no, if nothing happens over next 4 days, induced monday
<bigcalm> daubers: I fear peeps ignored the joke to save your feelings ;)
<daubers> bigcalm: Ah, being a machine, I don't have feelings anyway. And that makes me sad
<bigcalm> Heh
<MooDoo> daubers: ok delayed reaction, badum-tish!!!
<danfish> daubers: .......tumbleweed.......
<danfish> I rather suspect that this platform may well get some daubers attention when released http://www.raspberrypi.org/
<davmor2> danfish: I think you mean tumbleweed.popey.com
<danfish> davmor2: that's the one :)
<Fakunil> ich
<daubers> danfish: Depends on the final cost :)
<daubers> danfish: Also depends what the "general purpose I/O" things can be used for
<davmor2> czajkowski: I thought that was on this channel :D  nevermind hey :)
<czajkowski> davmor2: hahah
<AlanBell> danfish: yeah it is arduino controlled they say
<AlanBell> daubers: they want the GPIO thing to have lots of connectors for interesting things
<AlanBell> Eben Upton who is the main driver of the project is a proper electronics geek
<gord> going to google plus just makes me hungry since AlanBell started posting pictures of delicious looking food =\
<JGJones> Is it wrong to lust after the raspberry pi?
<czajkowski> JGJones: yes
<czajkowski> AlanBell: how was the dinner last night
<AlanBell> it was worth dressing up for :)
<daubers> AlanBell: Oooooh.... brains for a robot then :)
<AlanBell> daubers: one of the two they have is nearly autonomous
<daubers> AlanBell: Robots?
<daubers> I shall teach mine to feel love
<daubers> Then smash  it! MUAHAHAHAHAQHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
<AlanBell> !love #ubuntu-offtopic
<lubotu3> AlanBell: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<daubers> That or make it protect my house
<AlanBell> meh
<AlanBell> !love-#ubuntu-offtopic
<daubers> Are they planning to move to Armv7 at some point?
<lubotu3> Love is like racing across the frozen tundra on a snowmobile which flips over, trapping you underneath. At night, the ice-weasels come.
<AlanBell> daubers: they would like to and have some thoughts around it
<daubers> Excellent :) Could do some ubuntu-ey datacenter monitoring things with it too
<AlanBell> part of the trouble is that the v7 chips are packaged with smaller pin separations so need more expensive pcb technology and are fussier about power so need better regulation
<daubers> How long will debian be supporting the v6? Until they move to 3.0?
<AlanBell> one more cycle I think
<AlanBell> which could of course be a *long* time
<daubers> heh :)
<dogmatic69> is it possible to do rm /some/path/[regex|stuff]
<kvarley> Is it possible to use VirtualBox to play games? Trying not to name drop here, so like DirectX11 games?
<dogmatic69> kvarley: minecraft works fine on ubuntu :)
<kvarley> dogmatic69: I know :) I play it xD
<dogmatic69> no need for a VM then
<kvarley> dogmatic69: I want it for FPS games lol
<kvarley>  dogmatic69: I guess I should just try it out myself rather than asking lol
<dogmatic69> kvarley: dont see why it wont work
<MooDoo> kvarley: http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/virtualbox-3-directx.html
<diplo> dogmatic69: You can do things like rm file[1-9].* or what ever i think
<dogmatic69> x64 can be a pain and things like usb sharing.
<diplo> I quite often use find execing rm
<popey> kvarley: i just dual boot to windows 7 to play games
<kvarley> popey: So do I, however I was just thinking how awesome it'd be to have it run virtually
<popey> i dont believe it's fast enough
<popey> or compatible enough
<diplo> Just read the someone has got onlive working under wine
<popey> yeah, thats an interesting project
<diplo> I really am debating about trying it
<diplo> not sure if it's hit the uk yet though
<popey> it hasnt AFAIAA
<popey> http://onlive.co.uk/
<popey> 22/9
<kvarley> Punkbuster is a real pain for playing games online through wine
<dogmatic69> kvarley: maybe this is better for you http://synergy-foss.org/
<kvarley> dogmatic69: That involves 2 systems tho
<MooDoo> congrats czajkowski :)
<czajkowski> cheers
<daubers> czajkowski: Now employed?
<czajkowski> daubers: aye as of next wednesday I have a job
<daubers> Woo! Watcha doing and for whome?
<czajkowski> codegent.com
<czajkowski> PM work
<MooDoo> czajkowski: bangkok office?
<MooDoo> ;)
<czajkowski> nope you wee *mutter*
<czajkowski> London
<MooDoo> lol ;)
<daubers> czajkowski: Web design company?
<daubers> (names a bit generic, site looks to be that way :) )
<czajkowski> daubers: digital agency kinda stuff
<MooDoo> looks a well established company, marketing and stuff
<daubers> czajkowski: Okies, that'll keep you busy
<Myrtti> can you rub some of your luck on me too, czajkowski
<czajkowski> MooDoo: taken me 4 months
<czajkowski> Myrtti: taken me 4 months
<MooDoo> yeah :S  but it's looking up now :)
<JGJones> Hey...have anyone gotten Amazon Kindle working via wine? I have it installed...but it's not downloading any books :S
<oimon> JGJones: u telling me that u can't connect a kindle to ubuntu?
<JGJones> sorry...to clarify - Kindle for PC
<oimon> ah
<oimon> my missis wants a kindle , need to investigate
<MartijnVdS> maybe she said "cuddle" and you misheard?
<JGJones> They're great for reading. Keep pinching my dad's whenever I visit
<diplo> JGJones: Can you not use Calibre ?
<JGJones> diplo, I do...but I do have books in Kindle with bookmarks/notes
<diplo> :/
<JGJones> diplo, main reason for Kindle - I read it on PC, phone and tablet - so it keep my progress in sync which I find useful
<JGJones> although I do have backup copies on Calibre :)
<nigelb> \o/
<nigelb> Not Panicking Ltd is a win name for a company.
<nigelb> Especially one that's going to take care of H2G2
<czajkowski> http://www.lczajkowski.com/2011/09/08/rwc-warning/  You have all been warned
<JGJones> not working tomorrow :D
<JGJones> morning that is
<bigcalm> czajkowski: and on twitter we have been warmed :D
<davmor2> czajkowski: oh that reminds me how much did Ireland lose to England by recently?  /me runs for cover
<JGJones> Badly :D
<Laney> don't disconnect me :( :( :(
<JGJones> I'm thinking it might be New Zealand's chance to win as they've constantly been one of the best team to play.
<kazade> czajkowski: congrats on the job :)
 * popey wonders why rugby should not be confused with rugby
<czajkowski> fixed
<czajkowski> kazade: thanks
<MooDoo> JGJones: i'm thinking NZ too
<davmor2> popey: Well rugby is a place where they make rugby cement and rugby is a game played with the wrong shaped ball :)
<bigcalm> AlanBell: ping
<oimon> disappointed that i need to install a binary blob for an hp printer :(
<popey> oimon: which printer?
<oimon> HP P1102
<oimon> required hplip-gui package, then run hp-setup which downloads some blob
<oimon> the ppd file says "you need a blob"
<popey> ooer
<Gary> giggity
<oimon> apparently another free driver might work foo2zjs or something , but it's not standard in RHEL
<bigcalm> Goo
<oimon> ubuntu seem to have it
<AlanBell> o/ bigcalm
<bigcalm> Aha!
<smittix> ADDICTED!
<popey> :D
<MooDoo> smittix: i lost 5 hours the other night to it :)
<davmor2> oimon: yeah you might need splix too (although that might just be a samsung laser printer thing)
<oimon> davmor2: we no longer buy samsung printers because of the faff involved
<oimon> i want to kickstart a PC and be done, no extra faff
<smittix> MooDoo: Yeah I think it's going to be a long night.
<popey> shame no 1.8 today â¹
<davmor2> oimon: mine works fine,  although talking to Big Ron last night we were joking about the fact that some of the cheapest, good quality drivers and prints are now from lexmark, who'd of thunk it?
<MooDoo> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXjwg-CKxnQ
<oimon> davmor2: lexmark are forever on my blacklist! for EVER!
<bigcalm> popey: good job there is no 1.8 today otherwise no work would be done until next week
<oimon> talking of blacklists, i'm just in the process of transferring VM junk mail into new envelopes without stamps so they have to pay surcharge
<oimon> might chuck some scrap metal in too
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Laura Czajkowski] RWC Warning - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2011/09/08/rwc-warning/
<JGJones> oimon - I second that. Lexmark is on my blacklist too :)
<diplo> I've thought about doing that with VM aswell oimon
<diplo> Intensity of mails has increased last few weeks
<oimon> diplo: i spoke to them on the phone and they agreeed to stop spamming me...lasted 2 months
<oimon> maybe it never stopped :-S
<oimon> one of my pet hates
<Myrtti> I don't really mind binary blobs if it makes things work
<Myrtti> although, I've not had any problems or need of binary blobs with my Samsung MFP's
<oimon> Myrtti: HP had a history of good opensource support. if their opensource support means using an opensource app to download a blob, its not good for my enterprise use since it increases the admin load
<Myrtti> oimon: yup
<popey> surely you can see where the blob went and deploy that?
<Myrtti> but recently Samsung have made an effort of doing the reverse of that
<Myrtti> I just plug my MFP in and it all works like in movies
<Myrtti> or as we Finns say, the proverbian train toilet
<Myrtti> proverbial
<The_Fred> Hello
<The_Fred> How do i share my internet connection (ppp) over wifi (wlan0) ?
<MooDoo> The_Fred: what version you using?
<The_Fred> 10.04lts
<MooDoo> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Internet/ConnectionSharing
<MooDoo> have you read that?
<The_Fred> MooDoo, thankyou i'm reading that now
<MooDoo> you're welcome
<hoover> cheers all
<oimon> running gnome-system-monitor gives the impression of high cpu usage, because running gnome-system-monitor uses a lot of CPU :-S fail
<Azelphur> oimon old bug is old, have you updated since never? :P
<oimon> Azelphur: on lucid
<Azelphur> indeed
 * oimon will soon need a ppa for every application
<Azelphur> or you could just update ;)
<oimon> dude, i haven't even rebooted for 50 days
<davmor2> gord: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/844824 not good :(
<lubotu3> Error: Bug #844824 is a duplicate of bug #842784, but it is private (https://launchpad.net/bugs/842784)
<oimon> i'll update to the next LTS
<diplo> Azelphur: I still have it on 10.10
<Azelphur> 10.10 is ancient too
<diplo> not tried on this machine with natty
<diplo> Cant run natty on my pc
<diplo> So no choice
<diplo> Spent 2-3 hours trying to get dual screens working and failed
<oimon> diplo: even with gnome classic?
<diplo> Yup, seems a GFX driver issue
<gord> davmor2, do you want to add a proper stacktrace? :)
<davmor2> gord: that's everything that apport threw at it honest gov'nor all automated I only added the 2 lines of text as to what I was doing when it died on me
<gord> davmor2, might be fixed by tomorrow anyway, i changed that code
<davmor2> gord: I'll keep an eye out on it, apparently the trace is correct on the bug mine got duped to
<shauno> I give up. linkedin, meet procmail.  grrrr.
<gord> would be neat if there was a terminal command to grep the previous output
<jacobw> afternoon
<MooDoo> hiy
<davmor2> MooDoo: any news yet?
<MooDoo> davmor2: i don't think anything will happen till monday....
<czajkowski> MooDoo: :(
<czajkowski> cant you go for long long walks
<czajkowski> hot baths
<czajkowski> hot currys
<davmor2> MooDoo: Saturday you mean right?
<MooDoo> czajkowski: doing all those now, just doesn'[t want to come out
<MooDoo> davmor2: it's not wanting to come out, if nothing happens over the next four days it's coming out monday, don't want it this sat as it's jimmys birthday
<czajkowski> would he not handle it ?
<MooDoo> but thank you all for asking :D
<davmor2> MooDoo: Think of the saving on party costs ;)
<czajkowski> saves relations having to make 2 vists i a matter of days
<czajkowski> coming to 2 birthdays in a matter of days
<davmor2> MooDoo: you know it makes sense ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: it's not the same having a birthday on the same day, prefer them to have an individual one, although 18/21st in the same week will be fun :D
<czajkowski> yeah
<MooDoo> there you go lads, of to vegas with ya!
<MooDoo> not that we know what we're having lol
<Laney> is freenode broken?
<MooDoo> it was earlier, and looking at the quits and joins, then yeah :)
<Laney> aha, you can see this
<MooDoo> wasn't christel upgrading stuff?
<Laney> I just didn't see any messages for ages
<christel> she was!
<Laney> stupid web logs aren't updating fast enough so I don't know what got through
<Laney> >:(
<MooDoo> christel: knew it, IT WAS YOU point point point
<MooDoo> :D
<christel> hehe
<Laney> why are ghosting & releasing two separate steps?
<brobostigon> anyone use mustard. and twitter isnt picking up new tweets.?
<MooDoo> only use mustard on sarnies
<Laney> got mustard seeds in the cupboard
<brobostigon> the android app, but anyways, ok.
<MooDoo> brobostigon: sorry :) alas no i don't use it
<brobostigon> MooDoo: yes, that was self evidant from your first statement, :)
<bigcalm> I like how WordPress keeps telling me that Chromium is out of date. Don't blame me, oh mighty WP
<oimon> bigcalm: is it wrong?
<oimon> i get that too
<oimon> i think it's a bit "keen"
<diplo> Anyone know much about cups  here ?
<oimon> specific to my organisation, but some transferable knowledge :)
<diplo> I've never used it
<diplo> /var/cups/spool should empty after a job completes ?
<oimon> mine doesn't seem to diplo
<diplo> cupsd is using 50-60% cpu, wondering whether the 500 jobs in q were the issue
<diplo> don't seem to increrase in there either
<diplo> 503 c* files
<oimon> maxjobs 500 ?
<diplo> I guess thats set in cupd.conf ?
<diplo> nf
<diplo> Yeah it's set to 500as default
<oimon> although i had a user that had an incorrect cupsd.conf and when i replaced it with the original one, his 100% cpu problem went away
<ikonia> popey: ping
<popey> ikonia: pong
<ikonia> popey: is your FB account ok ?
<popey> dunno, wassup?
<ikonia> past couple of weeks your account keeps posting that light sabre badminton game and telling me that you like it
<ikonia> you the video with the guys playing badminton with lightsabers
<ikonia> sorry "the"
<popey> not me
<popey> i have not seen that
<ikonia> how odd, it's telling me you posted it and like it
<ikonia> it's done it a few times over the last couple of weeks
<popey> screenie?
<ikonia> I've marked it as spam, I'm looking for "undo" now
<ikonia> hang on
<christel> ikonia <3
<davmor2> ikonia: you sure it's popey I've not had it
<ikonia> howdy
<ikonia> not sure at all, but it's telling me popey is the guy who likes it
<ikonia> let me just undo this
 * popey goes to a party with jelly & ice cream
<ikonia> that's the last post I saw from you properly, enjoy !
<ikonia> I can't see how to undo it so I can show it
<ikonia> http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=189577531087079
<MartijnVdS> "Sharing heaven"
<MartijnVdS> that can only be a spam application
<ikonia> that is the video that keeps getting posted
<MartijnVdS> remove that app from your allowed apps list then :)
<ikonia> it's not in it, I keep getting it from popey
<ali1234> stop using facebook
<ali1234> also, where's my linux version of after effects so i can make videos like that?
<The_Fred> hello!
<The_Fred> I've a problem with my wifi can anyone help?
<ali1234> i could sell you some CAT5
<The_Fred> nice offer, but i've no ethenet cards
<The_Fred> thing is, when i do iwconfig i can see details about the card, but not in wicd
<The_Fred> all i want to do is creat an ad-hoc network
<The_Fred> the wifi dongle is a RTL8187
<jacobw> if you can see it in iwconfig the driver for the card is probably loaded ok
<jacobw> have you tried using iwconfig to configure it?
<jacobw> iwconfig wlan0 essid FOO enc BAR etc
<The_Fred> jacobw, not yet, im read ubuntu forums to see if how to do it
<jacobw> `man iwconfig` will be more helpful that the ubuntuforums
<The_Fred> jacobw, thanks, looking now
<jacobw> iwconfig wlan0 essid $ESSID mode ad-hoc ap  $MAC_ADDR key $WEP_KEY
<jacobw> if your using WPA you'll have to use wpa_supplicant
<The_Fred> ah! that could be the missing ingrediant : wpa_supplicant
<The_Fred> i installed the wpa_supplicant gui, but ther eis no adapter to select!
<jacobw> ok
<The_Fred> on the current status tab is says: Could not get data from wpa_supplicant
<The_Fred> gawd, there is a LOT of info to digest with man iwconfig....
<tonytiger> Wow wpa_supplicant
<tonytiger> I haven't needed that since... well, since I switched to Ubuntu
<jacobw> for some reason he isn't using networkmanager
<The_Fred> i did nt know if network manager was causing the problem, i think i'll remove wicd, and re-install the manager
<jacobw> what happens when you try to connect with networkmanager?
<The_Fred> just re-installing it now
<The_Fred> i've removed wicd
<The_Fred> but i'm not sure which network-manager packages to select in Synaptic
<The_Fred> i guess i shoudl re-boot ...
<jacobw> network-manager and network-manager-gnome
<jacobw> there's no reason to reboot
<The_Fred> ah, ok that was just in time :-)
<jacobw> :)
<The_Fred> so,, how do i get to the network manager, theres nowt in my panel
<jacobw> press alt+f2, type `gksudo network-manager-gnome` and it should appear
<The_Fred> looks like i need a driver the wifi device...
<The_Fred> spot on!
<The_Fred> :-)
<The_Fred> that ran though, but i still dont see the manager icon... is that normal ?
<jacobw> open a terminal and run `lsmod | grep rtl818`
<The_Fred> rtl8187                50680  0
<The_Fred> mac80211              205402  1 rtl8187
<The_Fred> led_class               2864  1 rtl8187
<The_Fred> cfg80211              126144  2 rtl8187,mac80211
<The_Fred> eeprom_93cx6            1333  1 rtl8187
<jacobw> ok, the driver is loaded.
<The_Fred> cool, so now to try to set up the ad-hoc
<jacobw> press alt+f2, type `nm-applet --sm-disable` and the icon should appear
<jacobw> i was wrong before
<The_Fred> thats ok :-)
<The_Fred> its complaing about some .service files
<The_Fred> but the applet is there
<The_Fred> a click on the applet revals a message: network amaner is not running... is that started with sudo network-manager restart?
<jacobw> is network-manager installed?
<jacobw> you can check with `dpkg -l  | grep network-manager`
<The_Fred> ii  network-manager                       0.8-0ubuntu3.2                                  network management framework daemon
<The_Fred> ii  network-manager-gnome                 0.8-0ubuntu3                                    network management framework (GNOME frontend
<The_Fred> ii  network-manager-openconnect           0.8-0ubuntu2                                    network management framework (Openconnect pl
<The_Fred> ii  network-manager-openconnect-gnome     0.8-0ubuntu2                                    network management framework (Openconnect pl
<The_Fred> ii  network-manager-pptp                  0.8-0ubuntu3                                    network management framework (PPTP plugin)
<The_Fred> ii  network-manager-pptp-gnome            0.8-0ubuntu3                                    network management framework (PPTP plugin, G
<jacobw> its installed
<The_Fred> i cant it running tho...
<The_Fred> i tried service network-manager start
<jacobw> does the icon list any networks?
<The_Fred> ah, got it , need to be sudo ......
<The_Fred> no networks listed
<jacobw> run `sudo /etc/init.d/network-manager start`
<The_Fred> done :-)
<kvarley> My CPU Clock Ratio is set to 22x but the CPU frequency is listed as 2.93 GHz, that's the stock speed. How do I increase the clock speed? Is that set with the QPI Clock Ratio?
<The_Fred> but there's no 'create network' option when i right-click the applet...
<jacobw> check whether the icon lists any networks again
<The_Fred> no networks, but there is a message : device not managed
<jacobw> check whether the interface is listen in connection information
<The_Fred> is that iwconfig or iwconfig?
<Azelphur> yay, todays addition to the "Azelphur broke it" list is... ext4 I think? http://pastebin.com/kmfVpaPx
<The_Fred> iwconfig .... a clue i thingk : Power Management:off
<jacobw> no, the problem is that the device managed by network manager
<The_Fred> ah, ok
<The_Fred> i've just checked my user account and i did/do have access to wireless.... just to make sure
<jacobw> check if managed=false in /etc/NetworkManager/NetworkManager.conf
<The_Fred> hmmm, the file is blank!
<jacobw> does it exist? `ls /etc/NetworkManager`
<The_Fred> dispatcher.d  nm-system-settings.conf  system-connections  VPN
<The_Fred> so no
<jacobw> nm-system-settings.conf
<The_Fred__> back
<jacobw> you need to tell network-manager to manage the interface
<jacobw> i can't remember how to do
<The_Fred__> i've a new problem now...
<The_Fred__> ** (nm-applet:2723): WARNING **: <WARN>  constructor(): Couldn't initialize the D-Bus manager.
<jacobw> you should add nm-applet to your session
<The_Fred__> how do i do that?
<jacobw> are you using unity?
<The_Fred__> imno sure, im on 10.04lts
<jacobw> open system > preferences > session
<jacobw> sorry, startup applications
<jacobw> see if network manager is listen
<jacobw> *listed
<jacobw> :(
<jacobw> i am watching the big bang theory
<tonytiger> I seems such an old fashioned thing to have to do, rip out system packages to get something working
<tonytiger> Maybe I've just been lucky but I've not had to fiddle with any hardware in a few years on Ubuntu to get it working
<jacobw> yes, it seems that network-manager didn't work so he removed it
<tonytiger> when it was really a driver issue?
<jacobw> i don't its a driver issue
<The_Fred> sorry
<The_Fred> back
<The_Fred> yes network manager is listed and ticked
<jacobw> good, it'll start when you log in.
<The_Fred> but i just saw: Wicd Network Manager Tray is also listed and ticked
<Girly-Girl> hi
<The_Fred> which is odd because i removed wicd
<The_Fred> i'm not sure whats going on now - i cant type in firefox... aaaarrrgg
<jacobw> remove the wicd entry
<The_Fred> yup - removed it
<jacobw> paste the contents of nm-system-settings.conf to
<jacobw> !pastebin
<jacobw> http://pastebin.com/
<lubotu3> For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://imagebin.org/?page=add | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
<The_Fred> is that the same  directory as /etc/NetworkManager/NetworkManager.conf ?
<jacobw> sorry, yes.
<The_Fred> cool, ok
<The_Fred> http://pastebin.com/0BcBuJu3
<jacobw> good
<jacobw> trying changing managed=false to managed=true and running `sudo /etc/init.d/network-manager restart`
<The_Fred> ok, there wifi network thingy is swirling around
<The_Fred> and i can now see networks listed
<The_Fred> thank you for your help jacobw , im nearly done i think
<The_Fred> just to get this ad-hoc network set up and i can leave you in peace
<jacobw> is nm-applet listing wireless networks now?
<The_Fred> yes :-)
<jacobw> )
<The_Fred> i'm working through this: http://www.ubuntugeek.com/creating-an-adhoc-host-with-ubuntu.html
<The_Fred> but the icon keeps spinning where i get to the part of 'connect to hidden wireless netwr'
<jacobw> are you creating or connecting to an ad-hoc network?
<The_Fred> trying to create
<The_Fred> i cant complete the last step
<jacobw> the windows xp step?
<The_Fred> no, the point where a connection is made to the hidden adhoc network
<The_Fred> it wont connect to itself
<jacobw> ok, run `iwconfig` and see if the card is in ad-hoc mode
<jacobw> are you trying to share a wired connection?
<The_Fred> i cant see any hint of it being in adhoc mode
<jacobw> if so, set the network-manager mode to shared instead of ad-hoc
<The_Fred> yes, i need to share my teatherd mobil (usb) over wifi
<The_Fred> the mobile is on via wvdial and has a ppp connection
<The_Fred> ok, in network connections i can see no option for shared, how do i set it via terminal?
<jacobw> sorry, ipv4 settings method shared to other computers
<The_Fred> ah ok , yes
<The_Fred> its icon is swirling around again
<The_Fred> i think i know why
<The_Fred> on the man page it says    iwconfig eth0 mode Ad-Hoc
<The_Fred> but when i enter that in terminal it complains
<The_Fred>  SET failed on device wlan0 ; Operation not permitted.
<The_Fred> when i try it with sudo i get  SET failed on device wlan0 ; Operation not supported
<The_Fred> im wondering if this a 10.04 problem, because when i used the dongle on my 10.10 laptop it connected to my mates network no problem
<The_Fred> bah!
<The_Fred> found it
<The_Fred> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/97322/comments/25
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 97322 in linux (Ubuntu) "rtl8187 module has no ad-hoc support" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<The_Fred> guess i'll see how to implement the patch then...
<kvarley> How can I monitor temperatures in Ubuntu? I would like something similar to SpeenFan
<The_Fred> kvarley, look for the sensors program in ubuntu software center
<kvarley> The_Fred: Ok, which is your preferred one?
<The_Fred> i dont bother with any, my oc is very old and has no sensors
<The_Fred> *pc
<The_Fred> (circa 1996)
<kvarley> The_Fred: I have got lm-sensors, however I am having trouble with the detection. I have seen a guide that says I should modprobe?
<The_Fred> yea, soory i'm in th emiddle of something and about to shutdown, have a google search about it, but have your motherboard details for hand because each motherboard has different sensors (if any)...
<kvarley> The_Fred: Ok, thanks
<j0nr> hi folks
<j0nr> Am really confused. I am on one computer inside my lan. There is one other computer in my lan running ubuntu server edition on a certain ip address. when I ssh that ip, it connects me to my external VPS!! eh?!
<j0nr> internally 192.168.0.2 is the server... when I ssh 192.168.0.2 I get prompted for my VPS which is external and completely unrelated... how can this be?
<kvarley> Anybody here know php?
<marxjohnson> yep
<kvarley> marxjohnson: Can you spot why my backup script doesn't work? http://codepad.org/zKf2cuJn
<marxjohnson> when you say "doesn't work", what happens/doesn't happen?
<kvarley> marxjohnson: It stops half way through
<marxjohnson> halfway through the php script or halfway through the tar command?
<kvarley> halfway through the tar
<kvarley> on the server anyway
<kvarley> locally on my lamp server it won't generate a tar
<marxjohnson> are you just calling the script it from the shell?
<marxjohnson> s/it//
<kvarley> marxjohnson: It's running on cloud hosting. I upload the php file via ftp, then I go to the php file in my browser which starts the script.
<kvarley> marxjohnson: I want it to generate a tar of certain folders with a filename of the current time and date from strftime, am I doing the concatenation right?
<marxjohnson> you don't need the dots in the strftime argument unless you want them in the filename
<kvarley> marxjohnson: I do want those in the filename =)
<marxjohnson> ok cool
<marxjohnson> then yeah the concatenation's ok
<marxjohnson> other things to check:
<kvarley> marxjohnson: Other things to check?
<marxjohnson> 1) Tar is installed on your server 2) The user that the webserver runs has access to run tar 3) the user can write to the directory where you're trying to create the archive
<kvarley> marxjohnson: Ok, I have had the script working before I put the time and date in the filename is all. So maybe it doesn't have strftime?
<marxjohnson> try just echoing $backupcommand rather than passing it to system
<marxjohnson> see what you get
<kvarley> marxjohnson: Ok, thank you, I'll do that now
<kvarley> marxjohnson: yes it works, however it stops after the first folder name
<kvarley> marxjohnson: I specify after the tar.bz2 for it to do "plugins/ templates/" and it doesn't do templates
<marxjohnson> do you have shell access to the server?
<kvarley> marxjohnson: It's on rackspace. No but it supports tar and untar
<marxjohnson> hmm I can't see anything wrong, seems to be a problem with the tar command rather than the PHP
<kvarley> marxjohnson: Ok, that's what I thought too, thanks for the confirmation =)
<marxjohnson> you could try seeing what system() returns
<marxjohnson> might be giving you an error
<kvarley> marxjohnson: How can I see that?
<marxjohnson> echo system($backupcommand);
<marxjohnson> might get more output using exec() instead of system()
<kvarley> marxjohnson: So the command will still run but it will tell me what goes wrong?
<marxjohnson> yeah
<kvarley> marxjohnson: Doing echo exec gives me one file output, that file is the last file it does in the plugins folder, maybe it's that one file which is a problem?
<marxjohnson> ah sorry, shell_exec()
<marxjohnson> shoulg give you the full output
<marxjohnson> exec only gives the last line
<kvarley> marxjohnson: It just stops again at the end of the last folder
<marxjohnson> no error messages?
<kvarley> marxjohnson: No but it works if I remove the strftime thing
<marxjohnson> strange
<kvarley> Indeed
<marxjohnson> exit
<marxjohnson> oops
<marxjohnson> haha
<kvarley> marxjohnson: Is there a way to run a system command and wait for it to finish then rename the tar ?
<marxjohnson> yep
<marxjohnson> http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.rename.php
<kvarley> thanks
<kvarley> marxjohnson: How do I wait for the system command to finish?
<marxjohnson> the next line won't run until it does
<kvarley> marxjohnson: hmm
<marxjohnson> shouldn't do anyway
<kvarley> marxjohnson: So the tar script I thought was working actually isn't, it just gets further
<kvarley> marxjohnson: Well thanks for all the help, I shall have to investigate tar on the cloud and check it actually works before blaming php xD
<marxjohnson> alright no worries
<kvarley> =)
<kvarley> It's command line issues
<kvarley> The command doesn't even work on my systsem
<kvarley> It does the first folder and then stops
<MonsterKiller> is the command "runlevel" meant to return the current runlevel?
<daubers> MonsterKiller: read "man runlevel" that'll tell you
<MonsterKiller> because runlevel return "unknown" and the system isnt starting anything when it boots
<MonsterKiller> from ps -aux i get: init, vzctl:ttyp0, -bash and ps -aux
<zleap> hi
<tonytiger> hi zleap
<zleap> hi
<zleap> sorry was playing with google earth
<tonytiger> MonsterKiller: I think runlevel doesn't really apply for systems using "startup"
<zleap> i think i need more fonts installed or something
<MonsterKiller> im not using startup
<MonsterKiller> well, i dont think so
<tonytiger> MonsterKiller: what release of Ubuntu are you on?
<MonsterKiller> but re-installed the OS now xD so its working
<MonsterKiller> 10.04
<MonsterKiller> runlevel works now i did a re-install
<MonsterKiller> the only thing i can think that did it was when i changed the autostart option for webmin using webmin
<MonsterKiller> thats the only thing i changed really
<tonytiger> Hmm, I meant "upstart" not "startup"
<Azelphur> Anyone know a good place to get a huge desk for my quad monitor setup? :p
<Azelphur> My current desk is a bit on the small side and getting old, want something new that's nice and sturdy
<zleap> not sure
<zleap> i use 2 filing cabinates and a piece of kjitchen work top works very well
<zleap> kitchen
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> (By getting old, I mean it's older than I am)
<zleap> oh
<zleap> how old are u then
<Azelphur> 21
<zleap> ah
<zleap> the depth of kitchen work top seems pretty good  too
<Azelphur> yea, my desk is deeper than that I think
<Azelphur> my current one
<zleap> ah
<zleap> i guess it depends on how much space you have / need
<Azelphur> have lots, need lots more :P
<zleap> ah
<zleap> not really sure, how many monitors u got
<zleap> ah 4
<zleap> so you need em all from 1 pc
<zleap> the super- tab combo is cool for task switching
<MonsterKiller> okay so, after installing 146 updates on the vps i get the problem where the runlevel stuff breaks. nothing runs on startup and runlevel returns unknown
<MonsterKiller> so one of the updates breaks it
<MonsterKiller> anyone know what could cause that to happen and if there is a way to fix it without re-installing everything?
<Monotoko> MonsterKiller, have you tried to boot into recovery mode?
<MonsterKiller> can you even do that on a vps?
<MonsterKiller> is there a certain file that sorts/determins the runlevel to use on boot? maybe that gets corrupt by an update
<Monotoko> I don't even think Ubuntu uses runlevels anymore...you can do it with a VPS that runs in XEN, which provider are you with?
<MonsterKiller> er
<MonsterKiller> scopehosts.com
<MonsterKiller> OpenVZ
<MonsterKiller> its 10.04.1
<MonsterKiller> ubuntu version
<Monotoko> I haven't ever used OpenVZ...but it should allow you to do it
<Monotoko> and it hasn't used runlevels since 8.04 I don't think
<MonsterKiller> well, whatever is doing it, its got to be one of the updates because it works fine before i install them
<Monotoko> as I say...you need to get into the recovery console to work it out...
<Monotoko> I wouldn't go near that company with a 6ft pole myself
<Monotoko> after dealing with indian VPS companies a few years back
<MonsterKiller> lol, im just doing this for someone
<simonhasit> how do I stop joining this channel?
<simonhasit> a 1st and last question..
<popey> simonhasit: probably an option in your irc client
<simonhasit> ypu
<simonhasit> you would think
<MonsterKiller> look at your auto-join list?
<simonhasit> i'll do that
<simonhasit> thanks
<AlanBell> simonhasit: are you using xchat?
<simonhasit> Yes I am
<AlanBell> in the server definition I think it will be trying to join #ubuntu-GB
<AlanBell> for the "Ubuntu" server
<simonhasit> so what do i need to do?
<AlanBell> edit-preferences, networks, Ubuntu Server, edit, user and channels tab
<simonhasit> I'm seeing an autojoin this channel option.. dude you rock :) lol.. i'm out of here
<bigcalm> Nice to have you with us for a time
<simonhasit> you guys suck! ;)
<MonsterKiller> D;
 * MonsterKiller sucks pen
<MonsterKiller> indeed we do
<MonsterKiller> :p
<simonhasit> not
<simonhasit> now  dont want to close my window incase I miss something
<AlanBell> http://ubuntu-uk.org/happy-hour/ where should the next happy hour be I wonder
<popey> \o/ Prince of Wales!
<AlanBell> done :)
<simonhasit> the prince of wales is up in here!
<AlanBell> 20th October?
<MonsterKiller> lol happy hour
<simonhasit> it's september 9th
<MonsterKiller> not for another hour
<MonsterKiller> :p
<simonhasit> i won't tell you what happens then.
<popey> AlanBell: good for me
<popey> week after release
<AlanBell> might even have CDs
<christel> \o/
<christel> i shall come join you
<simonhasit> did we all die?
<simonhasit> I'm gonna watch Joey and Melissa .. I guess its the same thing
<simonhasit> sabrina!? :) all I'm gonna say!
<simonhasit> Fallen so far
<popey> AlanBell: nice spot of html there
<AlanBell> fixed
<AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1277/detail/
<ali1234> random people adding me on google+ why?
<hamitron> love you ;)
<hamitron> "I got more friends than you"
<hamitron> :/
<Guest87485> ali1234, my guys, google told them to add you, the whole suggestion thing, least thats the only sense i can make of it
<Guest87485> oh i'm a guest
<Guest87485> yay me
<ali1234> your guys?
<ali1234> your guys are following me?
<gord> my guess
<ali1234> i'm sorry i was so harsh on unity
<ali1234> i find it a bit worrying that people look at the list of suggestions and think "well, i've no idea who that person is, but google says i should add them, so i better add them"
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu Developer Survey Report and Next Steps - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/09/08/ubuntu-developer-survey-report-and-next-steps/
<Azelphur> What would be a good proxy/encryption/tunneling type thing to set up on my server? The use case is bypassing throttling/QoS done by ISPs for games
<Azelphur> It would need to be publicly acccessable
<ali1234> page 18 on that report is amusing ^
<ali1234> 25/30 ubuntu developers do not use the forums
<ali1234> can't say i find this shocking
<ali1234> wait hang on, these charts don't add up
<ali1234> 25/35?
<ali1234> gah
<ali1234> maybe it is meant to be 25%
<hamitron> I'm not a dev, but I know I am bad at checking forums
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> IRC is more my style
<hamitron> different people like different methods
<nucc1> is there an off-topic version of this channel?
#ubuntu-uk 2011-09-09
<nucc1> or could i just jabber on?
<Azelphur> nucc1: mostly we just do sort of offtopic (as long as it's something the majority of the channel would be interested in) here anyway
<nucc1> Azelphur, just wondering, has Lovefilm always been an Amazon company?
<Azelphur> no idea
<nucc1> or is the UK just not big on trumpeting acquisitions?
<nucc1> it seems amazon's video service has arrived early afterall
<popey> no
<popey> it was bought by amazon
<popey> it used to be separate
<nucc1> yea, i only just noticed the amazon logo on it
<nucc1> wondering how it didn't make the news
<popey> it did
<popey> it was ages ago
<nucc1> hmmm. i read too many US websites then
<popey> its confusing because lovefilm bought amazon's dvd rental division
<popey> then amazon invested back in lovefilmi
<popey> then they bough them
<popey> *bought
<nucc1> he e
<nucc1> anyway, amazon gives me a fuzzy feeling
<nucc1> so its cool :)
<popey> heh
<nucc1> amazon and google
<ali1234> does anyone happen to have a nice svg of a tv remote ready for web use?
<ali1234> something like this except for a tv: http://www.openclipart.org/people/Startright/DVD_Remote_2.svg
<ali1234> and better looking
<ali1234> hmm do css classes support multiple inheritance?
<ali1234> yes, they do
<nucc1> ali1234, what do you mean?
<ali1234> <div class="foo bar">
<nucc1> that's not multiple inheritance
<ali1234> where foo and bar are completely unrelated css classes, and the div inherits from both of them
<nucc1> that's the source of the name "cascade"
<nucc1> one is applied, then the other is applied,
<nucc1> over writing the previous if there is conflict
<ali1234> yeah
<nucc1> so, what then is the question?
<ali1234> is that possible?
<nucc1> yes.
<ali1234> (i already know it is)
<nucc1> lol
<nucc1> you want to know how it is implemented at the rendering level or something?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> i just wanted to know if it was possible
<ali1234> and then i found out
<ali1234> and now i know
<nucc1> and you said you already knew it was possible
<nucc1> ah, ok.
<nucc1> good.
<ali1234> i didn't know when i asked
<nucc1> your question didn't say "does css support multiple inheritance?"
<nucc1> it said "how does".
<nucc1> makes a bit of a difference.
<ali1234> no, it said "hmm do"
<nucc1> ali1234, lol. i need to go to sleep.
<ali1234> not "how do"
<ali1234> anyway
<nucc1> darn.
<ali1234> ...
<nucc1> i'm seeing things
<nucc1> time to play the sims 3 to sleep.
<nucc1> so long, and thanks for all the fish, fellas!
<Azelphur> if I've cloned something from a git repo, how do I update to the latest version?
<hamitron> git pull?
<Azelphur> hamitron: ty :P
<HazRPG> grr... its way too early to be waking up o.O
<HazRPG> morning all \o
<Myrtti> myyh
<MooDoo> hello all
<AlanBell> o/
<diplo> Morning all
<daubers> Morning
<HazRPG> MooDoo, AlanBell, diplo: hey \o :)
<daubers> !ping
<lubotu3> another contentless ping... sigh...
<daubers> Awh, poor lubotu3, we love you really
<popey> Morning all!
<knightwise> hey guyz
<MartijnVdS> \o
<diplo> Anyone give me any ideas why cups would be using 50-60% CPU on  a system ?
<czajkowski> weeeeeeeeeeeee
<diplo> things to look for
<diplo> never worked with cups
<JamesTai1> Happy Friday, everyone! :D
<popey> probably trying to talk to an offline printer
<popey> yes, very much so JamesTai1
<diplo> Easy way of listing ?
<diplo> Was guess lpstat but not listing anything
<popey> any logs in /var/log growing alarmingly?
<diplo> loads of http 200 ones in cups dir access logs
<diplo> hmm seems normal looking at older ones
<bigcalm> Morning peeps :)
<czajkowski> Happy RWC kick off :D
<MooDoo> yay
<czajkowski> MooDoo: no movement still
<MooDoo> czajkowski: no nothing, think it's going to have to be induced monday
<czajkowski> :(
<MooDoo> czajkowski: hugs, thanks for asking x
 * daubers offers around the crunchies
<czajkowski> shhh
<czajkowski> no talking
<czajkowski> tonga are up
<bigcalm> popey: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azEOeTX1LqM
 * popey kicks czajkowski to #rwcloners
<bigcalm> LOL
<MooDoo> popey: oi no passing forward
 * Gary tickles elvis
<MartijnVdS> Gary: â« Calling Elvis?
<Gary> well, I meant popey
<Gary> but typo'd
<bigcalm> All the keys are right net to each other
<Myrtti> I wish all twitter clients had filters
<bigcalm> Easy mistake
<bigcalm> Myrtti: not a rugger fan?
<Myrtti> bigcalm: as a Finn it's one of the sports that I've never had any touch with
<Myrtti> that and cricket
<Myrtti> but there are a lot of other tags and things that I'd like to filter
<Myrtti> I wish I remembered the name of this one Twitter client I saw mentioned few weeks back
<daubers> Woot! Easyradio transcievers have arrives
<daubers> s/arrives/arrived
 * daubers does like how quick CPC are
<bigcalm> Myrtti: that's understandable. But why do I love winter sports so much when we never get enough snow to practice them here?
<christel> cricket is the meaning of life!
<christel> (and you can do ice cricket in estonia)
<christel> \o/
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MooDoo> morning
<czajkowski> christel: watching ITv1?
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> and christel you're nuts, cricket is boring :p
<christel> of course!
<daubers> \o/ cricket
<christel> MooDoo: is not.
<Mez> cricket ftw.
 * Mez has seen every test match @ Edgbaston in the last 3 years
<christel> <3 Mez
<Mez> Except for the ones where I've had to go to hospital.
<Mez> Benefits and downfalls of being a volunteer on the Ambulances.
<christel> do you frequently have to go to hospital when there's a test match?
<christel> oh i see!
<Mez> Though, soon I'll be the one sitting in the room with the view (and all the cameras) rather than on the mabulace!)
<christel> :)
<dutchie> AlanBell: woo keble :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> dutchie - nice college :-)
<dutchie> TheOpenSourcerer: thanks :) sample the bar at all?
<TheOpenSourcerer> bar?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Didn't see the bar.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Had a very nice dinner in the hall though.
<dutchie> cool
<dutchie> the bar is the "flying saucer" in the middle
<TheOpenSourcerer> Nice internet access too
<dutchie> yep :D
<TheOpenSourcerer> erm - which quad?
<hoover> good morning all
<oimon> my chewbacca pen is out of ink :(
<brobostigon> :(
<MartijnVdS> Well 34 years IS a long time for a pen
<oimon> what to take to the important meeting :(
<oimon> maybe stick my sponge tux on a pen
<MartijnVdS> oimon: I have some chewy pens... or ones I've chewed on
<kirrus> oimon: you have a sponge tux? Where from? Is it child-safe?
<gord> i really don't understand what all these shuffle options mean in banshee
<gord> shuffle by rating?
<davmor2> morning all
<czajkowski> it's banshee it's horrible.
<diplo> gord: You can get ratings on which songs you have listened to the most etc
<diplo> so can get it shuffle by that i guess
<gord> diplo, what does that actually mean?
<gord> i know you can get ratings
<gord> but what does "shuffle by ratings" do?
<gord> shuffle by score?
<diplo> plays tracks based on say how much/often you have played a track
<diplo> I always shuffle by artist though so can't say ive put it to good use
<diplo> I don't want to listen to stuff i've listen to lots
<gord> what does shuffle by artist mean?!
<diplo> Like a varied taste :)
<gord> what was wrong with just "shuffle"
<davmor2> diplo: but then you can set ratings too so does it include them or not?
<diplo> gord: I would prefer just shuffle tbh, I did go looking for it
<daubers> gord: You need to find a banshee dev named Basil, then you can go to him and say "But what does it all mean Basil?"
<diplo> But banshee hasgot buggy of late i've had to stop using it
<diplo> keeps crashing for me
<davmor2> gord: we should start up a bring back rhythmbox group
<diplo> I'm actually using rythmbox againa tm
<diplo> again atm*
<diplo> Was debating giving clementine a go
 * daubers just uses spotify
<diplo> My line is so shite here i am scared to
<gord> davmor2, i did got back to rb :) but now we have the music scope in unity powered by banshee so i have gone to banshee again
<diplo>  :(
<gord> if banshee can just stop playing tricks on me, i'll be fine
<davmor2> gord: that could be ported across with a little effort I'm sure :)
<davmor2> banshee is just wrong and yet there are loads that love it
<davmor2> banshee still gives me 2 copies of any cd I rip
<gord> davmor2, if you want to write one :)
<davmor2> banshee still sucks internet radio play back to the point that I got a digital radio
<davmor2> prods czajkowski oi stop with the flooding twitter you ;)  any one would think you liked rugby or something
<gord> banshee doesn't seem to want to play my mega-drive music even though it uses gstreamer though, hrm
<gord> i mean. i am not a nerd who listens to video game music from the 90's all day
<davmor2> gord: yes you are
<gord> shouldn't of put this packet of custard creams on my desk.
<czajkowski> davmor2: shrup ya pup
<davmor2> gord: what packet of custard creams
<czajkowski> busy watching tv stop making here light up
<davmor2> czajkowski: okay
<bigcalm> czajkowski: game is over, you can resume beating people up in here :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: Any news yet?
<MooDoo> davmor2: no, don't think anything will happen till monday now
<davmor2> MooDoo: :(
<czajkowski> ok game over I can come back now
<davmor2> czajkowski: we don't want to talk to you now though whens the next game start so we know when to annoy you again?
<czajkowski> tomorrow morning
<czajkowski> ireland games are all weekend games ;)
<davmor2> meh might have to talk to czajkowski before then, then :(
<czajkowski>  /ignore davmor2 peace and quiet
<daubers> czajkowski: How're you going to cope when you have to work while the RWC is on?
<davmor2> czajkowski: tickles czajkowski till she stops ignoring him :P
<czajkowski> daubers: all ireland games are on at the weekend :)
<bigcalm> Eclipse is weird when it comes to highlighting errors in code: http://discworld.cuth.eu/dump/eclipse_error_in_code.png
<davmor2> hey gord whats the name for the indicator that was session and now does settings?
<gord> davmor2, still session
<davmor2> gord:  ta
<popey> Azelphur: bravo down?
<daubers> someone make it lunch time
 * daubers is hungry
<czajkowski> eaten too much popcorn
<czajkowski> :/
<christel> aw
<czajkowski> mixture of sweet and salt
<czajkowski> add some ginger beer
<czajkowski> nyommy
<kirrus> daubers: it's lunch time
<daubers> kirrus: \o/
<andrewebdev> who provides the music for ubuntu one music store again? Is it 7digital?
<popey> yes
<andrewebdev> interesting, thx popey
<andrewebdev> so in theory I can purchase a song on ubuntu one music store, and should be able to download that track on my tablet from the 7digital app directly
<popey> no
<bigcalm> I would have thought that U1 is a reseller
<popey> correct
<bigcalm> You wouldn't expect to be able to use a Demon ADSL account on BT's ADSL
<davmor2> andrewebdev: what tablet is it?
<popey> there is a U1MS app for tablets isnt there?
<davmor2> popey: that's why I was asking as long as it isn't the hp tablet you should be able to install the music app
<oimon> i just realised that the hp touchpad adverts were done by that hideous bearded lady russell brand. ugh
<oimon> kirrus: just saw your message. yes, it is a squishy stress toy tux
<oimon> also have various tux soft toys etc
<oimon> from the good old days of when there were linuxcon and companies made marketing toys
<czajkowski> http://youtu.be/bMltvlqEM54  :D
<oimon> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/howaboutthat/8752199/Transcript-of-first-robot-to-robot-conversation.html << this reminds me of my phone calls to virgin media
<davmor2> oimon: it is
<oimon> davmor2: i thought you said you were a robot
<davmor2> oimon: no you said you were
<oimon> your mum's a robot
<davmor2> oimon: hey laser lips your momma was a snow blower
<Hippychick> robots! eeeep
<oimon> i am a unicorn
<davmor2> so czajkowski how much are Ireland gonna lose by this time?
<MooDoo> davmor2: watch what you say, last time it cost me a beer.
<davmor2> MooDoo: I wasn't gonna bring that up as you still owe it ;)  but England Beat Ireland the other week the only thing you can think is that one team was fluky last time
<MooDoo> davmor2: yes your right and as soon as i get czajkowski in a pub, i'll purchase her said pint.
<bigcalm> https://twitter.com/#!/DEVOPS_BORAT/status/112178188913868800 # bwuhahahaha
<tonytiger> :D
<AlanBell> tonytiger: hello!
<oimon> guys, seen this? touchpad in pc world http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/hewletpack-touchpad-32gb-tablet-pc-touchpad-case-wireless-charging-dock-11342081-pdt.html
<tonytiger> AlanBell: hi...
<Azelphur> popey: back again, seems my automagical 5am update didn't quite work
<Azelphur> although no reason as to why \o/
<Azelphur> It's up now
<bigcalm> Gotta love how copy/pasting over synergy crashes firefox
<BigRedS> Downloading an ISO from Ubuntu.com, what changes when I choose 'Windows', 'Mac' or 'Linux'?
<BigRedS> Oh, wait
<BigRedS> I'm reading how to burn
<bigcalm> :D
<BigRedS> I sat there confused for an embarrasingly long time, wondering what on earth would change
<oimon> burn looks like bum in some fonts
<BigRedS> hurr
<suprengr> anyone know wtf the  get-iplayer "download rate"  [e.g. 148010.515 kB / 1510.64 sec] translates to?
<davmor2> suprengr: it means it downloaded that much in that many seconds iirc
<bigcalm> 8 bits in a byte, divide it by 8 and then 1024 to get MB
<bigcalm> Ignore that
<bigcalm> Just divide by 1024 to get MB
<suprengr> cheers... davmor2 & bigcalm ;)
<gord> no minecraft to play with on the weekend then? oh wells
<gord> oh wrong channel
<gord> ahh screw it its basically the same channel
<BigRedS> haha
 * AlanBell wonders how bigcalm is getting on with the minecraft extensions to ubuntu-uk.org
<bigcalm> AlanBell: been too busy to write anything more than notes of things to include. I will be adding content this weekend
<bigcalm> Possibly including screenshots
<bigcalm> AlanBell: if you have any ideas of what to include on the page, add a note to it :)
<AlanBell> iframe of the map
<bigcalm> Dunno, there's 2 servers atm and will increase to 3 later
 * suprengr suggests adding a Ubuntu-UK section to Ubuntu Software Centre...
<suprengr> anyone able to guess what it could include? ;)
<AlanBell> not to mention here of course
<czajkowski> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-14858056  lovely my new employer....
<AlanBell> http://twitter.com/#!/alanbell_libsol/status/112232214611238912
<czajkowski> AlanBell: oi oi howdy doody
<AlanBell> o/ czajkowski
<davmor2> AlanBell: are you trying to prove you are Omnipresent or something?
<AlanBell> I don't think I need to prove that
<davmor2> AlanBell: Well if you start getting illusions of omnipotence on top of it I think we need to pull you down a peg or two at that point :)
<AlanBell> people send me spam all the time about cures for omnipotence
 * czajkowski kicks davmor2 
<davmor2> czajkowski: a little to the left that's my desk leg you're kicking
<davmor2> AlanBell: haha
<kvarley> Is there a way to retrive my password. I have Ubuntu on my netbook set to automatic login but I can't remember my password :/
<Azelphur> kvarley: I believe Ubuntu only stores the password encrypted, so short of having a supercomputer (I have one in my spare bedroom if your that desperate :D) you can't
<Azelphur> kvarley: you can reset your password, though.
<exobuzz> good evening from http://www.sunrisedemoparty.co.uk/
<kvarley> Azelphur: How can I reset it?
<Azelphur> kvarley: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LostPassword
<kvarley> thanks
<Azelphur> yw :)
<AlanBell> exobuzz: awesome
<Myrtti> say hello to dotwaffle if you see him
<Myrtti> well you should really
<kvarley> Azelphur: It throwns Authentication token manipulation error
<Azelphur> what does?
<popey> Evening all!
<popey> 45
<popey> bah!
<Azelphur> popey: my automagical update script failed on bravo for some reason, sorted now :)
<kvarley> Azelphur: The passwd reset attempt
<popey> yay
<Azelphur> kvarley: so you type passwd user and it says Authentication token manipulation error?
<kvarley> Azelphur: Yeah, fixed, it was the wrong root session
<Azelphur> :D
<Azelphur> grr, pidgin is really winding me up
<Azelphur> excess flood for no reason every few minutes :/
<MartijnVdS> QI in 5 :)
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> bbc1 or bbc2?
<MartijnVdS> 2
<MartijnVdS> or hd
<MartijnVdS> or 4?
<MartijnVdS> hmm
<MartijnVdS> 2
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: http://www.bbc.co.uk/tv/guide/ :)
<brobostigon> :)
<Myrtti> ahihi
<Myrtti> http://elvarikorut.punomo.fi/tuote/931/laku-kalvosinnapit
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: ooh, liquorice allsorts
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: we call that "Engelse drop" in Dutch :)
<Myrtti> yup
<Myrtti> English licorice here
<MartijnVdS> well yes, that translates to that :)
<Laney> I had Dutch drop before: â¥
<Laney> Don't think anyone else who tried it enjoyed the experience though
<MartijnVdS> Laney: lots of people I know love it ;)
<Myrtti> mmmm salmiakki
<Myrtti> salty fish, right?
<j0nr> hey folks....how would I install ATI drivers on a server edition?
<brobostigon> why would you want to?
<brobostigon> whats the point?
<j0nr> to run xbmc brobostigon
<brobostigon> xbmc?
<j0nr> media centre thingy
<Azelphur> j0nr: sounds like you want to install the ubuntu-desktop package
<j0nr> so I have a machine running as a file server, which I would like to run xbmc on...
<Azelphur> if you want a gui and stuff
<brobostigon> umm, i would add them with aptitude like normal, and then set in xorg.conf, to use those drivers.
<j0nr> Azelphur: not really
<j0nr> brobostigon: not sure what I am looking for though, driver wise
<j0nr> the AMD website doesn't seem to help. it says to refer to the dell website
<brobostigon> j0nr: if memory serves,, there is a specific, xorg ati driver package.
<j0nr> and the dell website doesn't support linux
<j0nr> I think I want the ati catalyst...?
<brobostigon> http://packages.debian.org/sid/xserver-xorg-video-radeon http://packages.debian.org/sid/xserver-xorg-video-ati
<brobostigon> those were the two i had in mind.
<j0nr> what about this page brobostigon https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RadeonDriver
<j0nr> It talks about the 'Radeon' driver, it mentions my card, but it doesn't actually say how to get it
<brobostigon> j0nr: you see the package i mentioned above, the radeon package, find that in ubuntu, it should be exactly the ame, in ubuntu.
<j0nr> ah, nice one brobostigon ! :)
<brobostigon> j0nr: more or less, debian and ubuntu are equal. kindof.
<brobostigon> j0nr: you might have to specify, for xorg to use that drivers, in xorg's config's.
<kirrus> Erm.. does anyone know why Ubuntu have just locked out access to some ips?
<kirrus> sorry, to apt repos?
<kirrus> I'm getting a shed-load of 403s on my lucid box now
<kirrus> huh, looks to be just me. I think this is a case of pebkac and tiredness
<kirrus> Sorry.
#ubuntu-uk 2011-09-10
<Azelphur> the compiz in natty is really old, how can I update it? :)
<hamitron> upgrade to oneiric?
<hamitron> ;)
<Azelphur> just found soreau has a fancy script that does it all for you
<Azelphur> running it now :D
<Azelphur> good news, I broke that script, twice.
<Azelphur> :D
<jpds> Azelphur: "Good news everyone" is the traditional way of saying it.
<Azelphur> good point :)
<AlanBell> morning all
<AlanBell> Guest51641: LjL-Temp: have you got a connection problem?
<nigelb> Morning AlanBell!
<dwatkins> Clearly we need to chat more to obscure LjL-Temp's joining and leaving.
<czajkowski> morning
<czajkowski> everyone watching the rugby,,,
<Myrtti> no... ;-)
<Myrtti> Im picking plums
<czajkowski> not missing much england are doing badly
<Myrtti> http://m.flickr.com/#/photos/myrtti/6132107115/
<Myrtti> pit spitting competition with myself
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<czajkowski> 13 -9 to england
<christel> a tad close!
<MartijnVdS> \o/ working sat (RTP) streaming throughout the house \o/
<MartijnVdS> dvblast++
<majdekalel> hi hello guys
<majdekalel> how can i make calls using bluetooth my phone is connected to my laptop using bluetooth im using ubuntu 10.10
<czajkowski> congrats to MooDoo
<czajkowski> MooDoo: had a baby girl
<Pendulum> MooDoo: congrats!
<Myrtti> wheee
<Myrtti> finally :-)
<MartijnVdS> congratifications MooDoo
<Myrtti> MooDoo: congrats on forking a child process :-)
<AlanBell> yay MooDoo \o/
<Monotoko> congrats MooDoo :)
<smittix> congratulations MooDoo!
<DJones> Congrats MooDoo
<DJones> and Mrs MooDoo of course
<christel> wooo
<christel> congratulations Monotoko
<christel> err MooDoo
<pid_> Anyone free to help me out with something?
<MartijnVdS> !ask
<lubotu3> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
<pid_> Was that really easier that saying yes?
<Monotoko> christel, not yet for me ;)
<christel> hehe
<christel> sorry about that! :P
<Monotoko> s'all good :)
<pid_> Anyway, I have no sound through my headphones, when I plug them in, it still plays through my laptop speakers.
<pid_> What do?
<Monotoko> pid_...hmmm...heard about that problem before, which ubuntu version are you usinh?
<pid_> 11.04
<Monotoko> did it work on previous versions or are you not sure?
<pid_> Yeah, it has worked before
<pid_> Any ideas?
<Monotoko> try: gnome-volume-control and tell me which "bars" you see...does it seperate headphones and speakers?
<pid_> No, just internal speakers
<Monotoko> hmmm...
<Monotoko> USB or analogue?
<pid_> Analogue
<Monotoko> you can try this: sudo apt-get install linux-backports-modules-alsa-natty-generic ... it might work but I think the milage varies
<pid_> Unable to locate package
<oracology> SevenMachines: if you're the same SevenMachines that maintains all those PPAs for useful applications, thank you very much!
<Azelphur> holy crap Iiyama monitors are built good
<Azelphur> Really windy here, Curtain blew out and picked up a 14" desk fan, rammed it straight into one of my monitors, throwing the monitor across the desk and knocking it down
<Azelphur> and the monitor isn't even scratched
<Azelphur> it landed face down too
<penguin42> phew!
<Azelphur> indeed
<SevenMachines> oracology: thanks! but maintains might be a stretch, mostly ignores is probably more accurate :)
<zleap> hi]
<penguin42> [ho
<zleap> how are you
<jesuisorange> Hey
<penguin42> hi
<jesuisorange> How's you?
<penguin42> passable
<jesuisorange> Okay. Really not liking irc on phone. Back in a bit.
<j0nr> \join #xbmc
<j0nr> duh
<MartijnVdS> j0nr: your / fell over ;)
<mgdm> it was trying to escape
<MartijnVdS> It is a kindness.
<Azelphur> I got so fed up trying to find a tool that simply tell me who's currently hogging bandwith, that I wrote one >.<
<Azelphur> trying to get it working my router now, python+libpcap \o/
<mgdm> And presumably does lots of fake ARP to knock them offline...? >:-)
<Azelphur> nah I just want to know who is doing it
<Azelphur> It's a case of there being around 10 computers in the house, and everyone saying they are playing nice
<Azelphur> but most of them being too stupid to know if they are actually playing nice
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: apt-get install iptraf
<Azelphur> iptraf / iftop are useless, they do per connection which makes the output virtually unreadable
<Azelphur> I don't care about per connection in the slightest :(
<MartijnVdS> they have per-ip and per-mac modes
<MartijnVdS> iptraf does, anyway
<Azelphur> they do?
<MartijnVdS> last time I used it, yes
 * Azelphur installs iptraf
<MartijnVdS> I think
<MartijnVdS> but it's been a while
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: I've got both, any idea how to do it?
<Azelphur> oh yea, I see it
<Azelphur> now I just need to get iptraf to work on the router \o/
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: "LAN Station monitor"
<Azelphur> yea, that's pretty much what I want
<Azelphur> main problem now is that it won't work on the router, I got it installed but it says "Aborted" when I try and run it \o/
<MartijnVdS> resize your terminal
<MartijnVdS> to at least 80x25
<Azelphur> it is bigger than that :)
 * penguin42 giggles at cablesearch.org - the most popular searches seem to be 'aliens' and 'ufo'
<emorris> Hi, I'm trying to create disk image using dd. I'm dumping a 60GB partition on a laptop IDE disk connected via a USB adaptor to a file on a FAT32 partition on a desktop IDE disk in a USB caddy. I set bs=32M, but my calculations show that it's going to take 17 hours to copy. Does this seem reasonable, or how can I do it quicker?
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: yea, iptraf just isn't working. I've installed the package and it's got all it's dependencies and it still just says aborted :/
<Azelphur> most useful error in history :(
<zleap> software freedom day 7 days away :)
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: aww, too bad :(
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: dd-wrt is really annoying me, I wish I could have openwrt :(
<MartijnVdS> debian ;)
<MartijnVdS> woo
<MartijnVdS> the tuning bug in my sat tuner's driver seems fixed
<MartijnVdS> in oneiric
<MartijnVdS> finally
<brobostigon> yay
<MartijnVdS> recording the proms now (for my dad, in hd)
<brobostigon> i havent tried 11.10 yet, i need to get a bigger sd card.
<MartijnVdS> You boot from SD?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: no, it means i can try it, without messing with what is already there.
<MartijnVdS> ah
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i like my eeepc, i think it is a very good use case, limited resources, but fairly standard hw.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I've sold mine to by brother
<MartijnVdS> I use my Vaio now
<MartijnVdS> or my "normal" PC
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i wouldnt get rid of mine, i have debian  sid on it at the moment, it is almost my only viable machine atm.
<MartijnVdS> yeah I'm rolling in hardware a bit.. not quite at Popey-levels
<MartijnVdS> but coming near ;)
<brobostigon> except for my ums old machine, which almost double, the resources of my eeepc, but need desk space. and anthusiasm, to put it back toghether, inclusive of installing an newer Os on it. ie, form debian lenny, to sid.
<brobostigon> mum's*
<brobostigon> i mean, putting my desk togehter properly.
 * MartijnVdS watches more Proms
 * brobostigon is watching QI XL.
<MartijnVdS> I watched the normal QI yesterday
<brobostigon> which is also pretty good.
<MartijnVdS> aye aye ;)
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> eye,
<brobostigon> aye*
<MartijnVdS> ah yes.. one is "affirmative"
<brobostigon> booo
<brobostigon> yep :)
<Azelphur> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/09/07/anonymous_lulzsec_hacking_trial_peter_cannot_use_name/ haha :D
<brobostigon> apparently. john lloyd, who created QI, lives just down the road from me, in, great tew.
<Nafallo> QI? Quantative Intelligence?
<brobostigon> and being a QI elf, could be an interesting job.
<brobostigon> Nafallo: the tv program.
<Nafallo> ah. I don't do TV...
<brobostigon> it is a famous tv show, mr fry, has presented the last 9 years now, since 2002.
<brobostigon> stephen*
<brobostigon> stephen* fry*
<brobostigon> good night, sleep well.
<mgdm> cheerio brobostigon
<brobostigon> nos da mgdm o/
#ubuntu-uk 2011-09-11
<Samm> HazRPG: heyyyyy
<HazRPG> Samm: Hoooooo! *thunder cats*
<Samm> HazRPG: FalseProphet on Freenode is such a twat
<HazRPG> Samm: hmm?
<HazRPG> Samm: who? lol
<Samm> HazRPG: Some stupid kiddie
<HazRPG> Samm: lol
<Samm> HazRPG: Ever been to #teensonlinx or ##teenlinux ?
<HazRPG> nope
<Samm> HazRPG: I'm eating so many bananas
<Samm> HazRPG: Bananas are a good source of fibre :)
<Samm> High in fibre, including bananas in the diet can help restore normal bowel action
<Samm> , helping to overcome the problem without resorting to laxatives.
<HazRPG> Samm: like I keep saying, make sure to drink plenty to go with that though
<Samm> HazRPG: I'm drinking a pint of milk :)
<HazRPG> too much fibre, little water = constipation, cos the fibre absorbs the water
<HazRPG> or at least attracts them
<Samm> I never drink water, but I drink milk.
<Samm> HazRPG: I won't be able to buy milk today because the supermarkets will be closed by the time I wake up. :(
<ali1234> maybe you are lactose intolerant. did you consider that?
<Samm> ali1234: I considered it
<Samm> ali1234: But surely I'd know if I was?
<Samm> ali1234: And I think my constipation started before I started drinking milk.
<Samm> HazRPG: night xx
<czajkowski> aloha
<suprengr> coffee brewing - tv on RWC1 (known to  some as itv1)
<Gallo> morn all
<Gallo> anyone awake lol
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<suprengr> \o
<brobostigon> o/
<MartijnVdS> \o
<MartijnVdS> F1 this afternoon \o/
<suprengr> yeah!
<MartijnVdS> that should make the gym easier to cope with ;)
<brobostigon> hmmm.
<isleofmandan> gym? What's one of those?
<MartijnVdS> isleofmandan: that's the place where I compensate for sitting at the computer all day
<isleofmandan> ;)
<isleofmandan> Oh. I didn't know I had to compensate. *hides chocolate brownie crumbs*
<czajkowski> morning
<isleofmandan> morning
<isleofmandan> So, my attempt at running a new LUG on the Isle of Man isn't too successful so far. Still, the cakes and tea here are nice!
<MartijnVdS> isleofmandan: too bad you have to buy them yourself every time?
<isleofmandan> It's our first ever event. I appear to be the only attendee :)
<isleofmandan> Gotta start somewhere though
<MartijnVdS> out of how many on the island? :)
<isleofmandan> And my Ubuntu netbook, combined with wifi tethering courtesy of android is helping...
<isleofmandan> population of about 80,000
<MartijnVdS> ah, as big as the town I live in then :)
<MartijnVdS> except larger (so less population density)
<isleofmandan> Quite a few 'techie' types on Twitter. Many using linux of one sort or another. I thought we needed a LUG. After all, this is where Mr S lives! :)
<suprengr> isleofmandan, he *still* lives there?... & can't attend?
<czajkowski> he's a busy man
<suprengr> [boo hiss]
<czajkowski> just because he lives there doesnt mean he *has* to attend either lads
<suprengr> ...thought he had cronies to his busy for him these days
<suprengr> ;)
<isleofmandan> I got a nice email saying he'd love to come, but his secretary told him he wouldn't be able to make it. Busy chap.
<isleofmandan> He wants to stay in the loop. Quite nice really.
<czajkowski> isleofmandan: it's his PA not his secretary :)
<nigelb> And Ubuntu/Canonical is not the only things he does :)
<isleofmandan> :)
<nigelb> s/is/are
 * suprengr hums "I'm a spaceman"
<isleofmandan> To be clear, I know he's very busy. I wasn't demaning he come or anything. In fact, I was genuinely surprised he took the time to mail me.
<isleofmandan> And anyway, given I appear to be the only member of IoMLUG at the moment, it would've been really embarrassing! :)
<isleofmandan> Think I'll try a pub meet next time. See who I can drag out.
<awilkins> Agile development : comments on it? I have an interview on Tuesday where I have to present about it and I'll shamelessly milk your sage opinions if you present them :-)
<awilkins> Currently I'm going with "KanbanScrumKeeper", a new methodology I'm making up as I go along that incorporates Kanban, Scrum, and the gatekeeper workflow used by Bazaar / Linux etc
 * penguin42 hasn't done much of it - but in some places it's got a really bad name
<awilkins> Apparently we've decided it's a good idea since I get the idea that the interview is essentially a competition to see who's AgileMojo is strongest
<awilkins> We've been using scrum, and it's not been that bad for us, considering the impediment of the actual work that's being done and the dedicated resistance to appropriate levels of participation by the stakeholders (especially the customer)
<penguin42> awilkins: So the challenge for some people is being convincing that you can actually make progress and have some idea of where you're going to be in say 6 months time
<awilkins> Hooray! This is already a useful discussion thinking up stuff I had not thought of.. I don't think it's so hard to say that you can make progress, but I would probably agree about the "where are we in 6 months" bit... on the other hand, I don't think planned development has any miraculous ability to ensure that you are where you planned to be - but it's good at saying "we plan to be here"
<penguin42> yeh
<penguin42> damn peers
<awilkins> All things being equal (agile and planned having the same development speed), you'd end up in the same place anyway. But the point being that planned is not good at accounting for changes in direction, and might actually take you to a place you didn't want to be (in hindsight)
<alexcockell> Hi all..
<penguin42> awilkins: So I think the problem you can get with agile is that at the end of one month/sprint/thingy you don't get a bunch of stuff done, but then what happens when that particular task doesn't get done in a few sprints? Will it ever happen - is it actually late?
<awilkins> penguin42, I can definitely relate to that  - we've had a number of tasks that just don't seem to fit into one sprint. And the big problem with these (and anything that doesn't result in user-facing features) is that you don't get any perception of progress.
<awilkins> Even if you break them up into smaller chunks, it still doesn't look like progress to complete those chunks to the user level of things
<alexcockell> Umm - however, if there's an annoying bug that isn't there any more - it *does8 appear as less annnoying..
<penguin42> awilkins: Yeh, especially if you have another team waiting for it
<awilkins> The worst part was that the (third party) data storage layer was so horrible to work with that it took several sprints to even get to the point where you could load some data to show in the UI. We eventually just went with a prototype backend that used the XML files we were importing the data from.
<awilkins> And that got used as the production backend because the storage thing had some nasty concurrency issues
<alexcockell> ..
<suprengr> Sunday bliss is... F1 live on TV, F1 live driver cam on pooter, F1 live timings on netbook perched on TV ;)
<suprengr> ...& a bottle of beer :O
<alexcockell> Avoiding News 24 coverage then?
<suprengr> was up at 5am - did my condolences then
<brobostigon> if i ssh tunnel from my phone, to my vps, is there anything other than ssh, i need to configure on the vps end?
<MartijnVdS> no
<brobostigon> ok, thank you, let me try.
<MartijnVdS> maybe an outgoing firewall (if you set up iptables blocking of outgoing connections)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: how would i check that?
<suprengr> Guest73624 is now known as a pain in the whotsits
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: can you connect to the internet from your VPS? Then you don't have to do anything :)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: (i.e. wget/w3m/etc.)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i am using irssi, from my vps and bitlbee.
<MartijnVdS> sounds ok then.. you tend to know when you set up a firewall of outgoing connections :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i set it up with ufw, and i dont remeber doing so.
<AlanBell> suprengr: agreed
<brobostigon> now to work out, how i can check, it is working properly. traceroute i think, to see if http is going over my vps.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: open a page hosted on your vps, then check the source ip in the access log
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: if it's your VPS ip, it's OK
<MartijnVdS> if it's not, it's not :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ah, good thinking, :)
<brobostigon> nope, apache's access.log. says it is coming from a different ip, than my vps's.
<suprengr> AlanBell, thanks ;)
<brobostigon> hmmm,
<swat_> afternoon
<democrezy> How can i enhance visual effects in ubuntu 11.04
<daubers> LO
<daubers> Urgh
<daubers> Lo
<dutchie> suppose i am running a test website in a vm on my laptop
<dutchie> and i want to see what said website looks like on my (android) phone
<dutchie> how could i make it so that i can put something into my phone that routes to the vm?
<penguin42> dutchie: Can you get from your wifi to your vm?
<mgdm> if you have a web server on the laptop, you could do something like Apache's mod_proxy to proxy it to the VM
<mgdm> (I do this a lot)
<dutchie> penguin42: no, this is the thing i want to make possible :)
<mgdm> it's either that or use iptables to forward your port of choice to the VM
<penguin42> dutchie: Can you get from your wifi to your host machine?
<dutchie> penguin42: yes
<penguin42> dutchie: OK, so on your host you can do a port forward using ssh (or as mgdm says iptables) - I'd use ssh -L
<penguin42> dutchie: Can you ssh from your host to your vm ?
<dutchie> i might try yes
<dutchie> yes
<dutchie> even
<dutchie> ok that works
<dutchie> i will return to this after "lunch"
<dutchie> just need to make wordpress not be annoying now
<rml_home> 1119397
 * penguin42 looks at rml_home
 * AlanBell sees MooDoo sproglette pictures
<czajkowski> aye
<czajkowski> on saturdaydat he had a girl
<AlanBell> yup
<dutchie> hrm
<dutchie> still can't appear to get anything to work
<AlanBell> dutchie: using virtualbox?
<dutchie> AlanBell: virt-manager/kvm
<AlanBell> ah, so lots of bridge stuff then
<AlanBell> so you want the guest to pick up a real IP address from the LAN I guess
<dutchie> ah that could work too
<AlanBell> which can be non-trivial on wifi
<dutchie> probably simpler than trying to forward stuff through the host
<dutchie> ...or not
<AlanBell> is the host connected via ethernet or wifi?
<dutchie> wifi
<dutchie> i could probably dig out an ethernet cable if required
<AlanBell> http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/debian-26/kvm-wireless-bridge-network-691953/#post3404388
<dutchie> oooo
<AlanBell> I don't know if KVM can do wifi bridged now
<AlanBell> virtualbox can
<dutchie> not sure how much of a wifi stack is on the guest
<dutchie> though i suppose there is nothing to stop me
<dutchie> tbh not sure if it is worth that much effort
<dutchie> might just go play minecraft
<AlanBell> the guest doesn't see it as wifi
<dutchie> ah handy
<slvr> dutchie: ncat as http proxy?
<mgdm> nyancat?
 * mgdm runs
<dutchie> slvr: didn't know  you were in here :)
<dutchie> also didn't know ncat could do that
<dutchie> though i suppose it makes sense
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] The writing on the quilt - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2011/09/11/the-writing-on-the-quilt/
<danfish> evening all!
<czajkowski> danfish: ALOHA!
<danfish> czajkowski: son number 1 first outing at miny rubgy today :D
<danfish> s/miny/mini
<czajkowski> danfish: awwww yay
<danfish> he loved it
<czajkowski> good stuff
<czajkowski> caught any of the games?
<danfish> on the way home he said "Daddy, let's make a fox scarer with water and your gadgets"
<danfish> czajkowski: bits and pieces of games - weekends == me as taxi driver
<danfish> czajkowski: but some good games - have recorded a few and will watch tonight
<czajkowski> danfish: cool
<andylock1an> hey guys and gals
<andylock1an> any chance someone could help me, if I print a string from beautifulsoup it returns it as unicode.. (i.e. [u'This is the text'])
<andylock1an> how can I remove the [u''] bit?
<andylock1an> (python)
<andylockran> ?
<czajkowski> andylockran: tis sunday evening
<czajkowski> rarely anyone around at this hour
<popey> all busy playing minecraft :D
<czajkowski> or catching up on rugby
<czajkowski> I got a mail from SABDFL after my blog post the other day
<czajkowski> amusing to say the least
<andylockran> ah, sorry guys
<Laney> andylockran: erm, why do you care that it's unicode encoded?
<Laney> the u and quotes shouldn't show up when you print it
<Laney> laney@iota> python -c "print u'hello'"                                                                                                     ~
<Laney> hello
<Laney> now: pubpubpubpubpubpubpub
<Lcawte> popey: O.o, are you playing 1.8-pre?
<awilkins> Oh darn, why'd you mention Minecraft just as I have to do this presentation......
<awilkins> "Er, so, like, Agile development means you have to ... keep the exploding cacti away from your pigs.... and chickens?"
<awilkins> Actually... Minecraft goes on about agile on it's "about" page, sweet
<popey> Lcawte: yes
<Lcawte> Is it any good?
<popey> it has bugs
<popey> but yeah, it has some nice stuff
<awilkins> Chicken!
<awilkins> He talks about agile in the about page but only NOW do we have pigs AND chickens
<awilkins> http://www.implementingscrum.com/2006/09/11/the-classic-story-of-the-pig-and-chicken/
<nucc1> i'm about to enable ufw on a server via ssh, does ufw permit SSH by default?
<nucc1> because if it doesn't i'm screwed after i enable it
<funkyHat> nucc1: no, it doesn't. Set up your ssh rule before anbling
<funkyHat> *enabling
<nucc1> funkyHat, ok, thanks. reading a manual now.
<nucc1> i've run ufw allow ssh
<nucc1> is that sufficient to start with?
<funkyHat> nucc1: should be yes
<nucc1> ok, fingers crossed :)
#ubuntu-uk 2012-09-03
<AlanBell> choo choo
<MartijnVdS> moo
<davmor2> Morning all car to garage now to wait for my chauffer driven very extended and raised red limo to get me somewhere near my final destination
<hoover> good morning
<dwatkins> hiya
<JamesTait> Goooooooooooooooood morning all! :)
<christel> MORNING Pretties
<JamesTait> christel: o/
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hello all.
<Laney> ahoy
<christel> hi hi Laney, TOS, JamesTait \o
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
 * bigcalm jumps on christel
<diplo_> Morning all
 * JamesTait averts his eyes
<christel> heeya bigcalm, diplo_ \o/
<gord> launchpad so slow :(
<TheOpenSourcerer> gord: I blame czajkowski
<czajkowski> gord: where?
<gord> czajkowski, just branching, i only get 1MB/s :(
<davmor2> Morning all again irc is still easier on pc than a phone or tablet
<jacobw> morning
<jacobw> Anything is easier on a keyboard than on a phone or a tablet
<davmor2> jacobw: I don't know it's harder to take photos with a keyboard :)
<jacobw> :)
<jacobw> Within reason :p
<jacobw> What does paste.ubuntu.com run?
<tsimpson> ^ text-based communication is easier with a physical keyboard than with a limited size on-screen keyboard
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<shauno> nothing wrong with taking pictures from the keyboard either.  hitting space with a tethered cam is easier than trying to hit a touchscreen button without jolting the camera
<davmor2> tsimpson: indeed
<davmor2> and a morning PROD to czajkowski
<czajkowski> lo
<bigcalm> Morning davmor2
<davmor2> bigcalm: morning dude
<bigcalm> davmor2: bluetooth keyboard makes deving on the xoom tablet feasible
<davmor2> bigcalm: indeed, but then you kinda lose the portability of the tablet/phone, I dropped the car in for service and to get the jobs that need doing done, and had to wait for the bus so I thought irc say morning, it's really not a bad experience on the s3 but it's not as friendly as a keyboard :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: quite so. You get used to the limitations. Andchat is a nice irc client
<davmor2> bigcalm: I'm using androirc it's not bad at all
<czajkowski> irssiconnectbot is also rather good
<davmor2> hey guys have you seen this http://www.youtube.com/embed/53_qvMQfvOE funky
<bigcalm> davmor2: amusing
<hoover> hey bigcalm
<bigcalm> Morning hoover
<davmor2> bigcalm: http://www.youtube.com/embed/53_qvMQfvOE :D
<bigcalm> davmor2: would be handy without the embed part of the url
<bigcalm> davmor2: and that's the same link as before
<davmor2> bigcalm: that just how it came, they are emailed links to me
<bigcalm> A youtube digest?
<davmor2> bigcalm: nah my mom sends them to me if she thinks I'll like them
<bigcalm> Ah
<diplo> anyone know the official place to get Google Logos, my google foo is failing this morning
<diplo> Specifically after what I should use for G+
<diplo> And I find it straight after asking!
<JohnRobert> hello
<JohnRobert> I ought to start a LUG here in cambridge
<JohnRobert> seeing as the existing one doesn't exist
<bigcalm> Mmmm, Deadmau5's new album is rather minimalist, still enjoyable
<davmor2> meh virgin are working on the street level box again then, just had to go tell them they'd knocked me off the internet D'oh
<mungojerry> lol, there's one on cambridge heath rd that the doors are always open, and the tramps use it to store their beers
<bigcalm> Hopefully my new router will be here tomorrow so that I can use 3g when VirginMedia feel ill again
<mattt> OHAAAAAI
<bigcalm> mungojerry: good to know where one can get free beer
<mungojerry> bigcalm, *may be urine
<bigcalm> mungojerry: that's the price one pays when sourcing free beer
<mungojerry> the box is pretty open to the elements and local dogs. i wonder how anyone has a working connection from the green box of doom
<JohnRobert> eau de yak urine
<bigcalm> A RD reference, Monday is off to a good start
<diplo> mungojerry: We used to have one round our way, at least half a dozen people told them and they didn't come out for months to fix the doors.
<mungojerry> diplo, i used to be on virgin and had terrible service. the engineer would come out and say, the router is overloaded i've switched you over. then the next month another one would come out and siwtch me back saying the router was overloaded...repeat ad infinitum until i moved house
<mungojerry> not using virgin until their fibre is cheap
<diplo> Same here pretty much mungojerry
<diplo> Also downloading torrents, this was legal stuff basically brought my line to it's knees
<diplo> So had to move to iso's / direct links
<JohnRobert> anyone here running ubuntu on a macbook pro/macbook air etc?
<JohnRobert> just wondering if it'd be worth getting apple hardware to run ubuntu on
<gord> i hear its tricky
<Laney> yes, macbook pro
<Laney> works mostly fine
<JohnRobert> mostly fine
<JohnRobert> heh
<JohnRobert> sounds fishy
<mungojerry> what graphics cards do mac use?
<JohnRobert> sounds like my thinkpads
<JohnRobert> supposedly everything works out the box
<JohnRobert> until you hook up external monitor or whatever
<BigRedS> Hmm. I've set Dovecot to not permit ssl2 and on port 993 it refuses attempts to connect using SSL2, but it appears to let them in on 143, anyone got any ideas why?
<directhex> huh? there should be no SSL listener on port 143
<directhex> TLS on the other hand...
<BigRedS> SSL3 == TLS1, doesn't it?
<BigRedS> but, yeah, I'm confused, too. it's just that the PCI scan is complaining about it and they make a reasonable point
<BigRedS> Actually, on connecting, I do only get the line "CONNECTED(00000003)
<directhex> SSL starts from the point of "i will only accept communications which begin with an SSL handshake"
<BigRedS> " and not a whole bunch of cert stuff, so I wonder if it's reverting to clear text or something
<directhex> TLS works from the point of "i will accept unencrypted communications, then do a handshake when i receive a STARTTLS packet, and be encrypted after that point"
<BigRedS> Ahh, right. I assumed they were equivalent, and starttls was a means of switching over to an encrypted stream
<Laney> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-19426353 :3 :3 :3
<jacobw> is it possible to load balance TLS?
<mgdm> jacobw: in what sense? You can load balance most IP things
<jacobw> yeah, i wasn't being clear there
<jacobw> i mean http load balancing
<mgdm> thre's a few ways to do it
<mgdm> You can just do it at layer 5 (or so) with no knowledge of the protocol above, with various things
<mgdm> or you can terminate the HTTPS stuff on something like nginx or pound and speak HTTP to the back ends
<mgdm> or a variety of other ways
<mgdm> round-robin DNS would work, too :)
<jacobw> the decrypt and route method is only thing i'm aware of that works
<jacobw> :)
<jacobw> that's another way of doing it
<jacobw> http://apple.slashdot.org/story/12/09/03/0110259/how-apples-story-is-like-breaking-bad
<jacobw> i'm never reading slashdot again, that's just ridiculous
<BigRedS> slashdot's been ridiculous for a very long time
<jacobw> somehow i've kept reading it
<mattt> i sit near a guy at work who reads it religiously
<mattt> always surprises me tho, i thought that site was dead
<BigRedS> I think there's always a group of people who are surprised to find there's still a group of people who read it
<jacobw> :D
<mungojerry> i read it. it's on my twitter feed. has some interesting stories if i've missed the original 2 days before
<mungojerry> its just a news aggregator
<BigRedS> haha, yeah, that's what I keep noticing - it's always the last source to get the news
 * jacobw is trying out 'breaking bad'
<jacobw> metacritic 74 â  99 over 5 series, that's impressive
<dwatkins> jacobw: it's very entertaining, although a little concerning at times
<jacobw> concerning?
<dwatkins> the writers must have had to do all kinds of crazy research or something
<dwatkins> perhaps they interviewed people in prisons, I guess
<jacobw> i see
<jacobw> i've never seen the wire, but i've heard similar things about it
<dwatkins> it's definitely not a show for children
<dwatkins> I don't know about The Wire.
<dwatkins> Reading its wikipedia entry it does sound fascinating.
<jacobw> um, are their stalagtites in your abode?
<dwatkins> o.O I'm not sure what you mean, jacobw.
<jacobw> it's a little odd to not have heard of 'the wire'
<jacobw> i was implying that you've been living in a cave :)
<dwatkins> Oh I've heard about it, had several people reccomend it, I just havn't gotten around to watching it yet :)
<jacobw> i'm in exactly the same situation
<dwatkins> I tend to be a bit all-or-nothing about TV shows, I'll start watching one (this week it's Leverage, the cheesy US remake of Hussle) and I'll watch every single episode of it, at the exclusion of almost every other show.
<jacobw> "yeah, i'll watch that it someday"
<jacobw> i do that too
<jacobw> leverage is nowhere near as good as hustle :(
<dwatkins> I sometimes rewatch Stargate, that's one of my favourites, but that takes a while as there are over 200 episodes, as you may know.
<dwatkins> I agree, Hussle is ace.
<jacobw> i didn't know there's >200 episodes of stargate
<dwatkins> Burn Notice is very cheesy, but somehow manages to be quite watchable.
<dwatkins> Yeah, they went a bit silly for episodes number 100 and 200.
<mgdm> I don't remember 100, but I do 200
<jacobw> i've never watched any series set in space, other than red dwarf
<dwatkins> 10 seasons of the original show, plus 5 of Atlantis and 2 of SGU. That's a lot of puddles.
<dwatkins> jacobw: I thoroughly reccomend Firefly.
<jacobw> ah, i really will get around to watching that someday
<hoover> Babylon 5 for the win (except for season 4 & 5 ;-)
 * dwatkins whispers 'Crusade' at hoover 
<mungojerry> is anyone aware of a chargable singlepurpose bluetooth device that isn't a phone, for using blue proximity?
<directhex> "singlepurpose"?
<dwatkins> mungojerry: I used to use a computer to do a level 2 ping, does that count?
<mungojerry> directhex, i.e. the sole purpose of being a bluetooth device.
<bigcalm> I have a bluetooth GPS blob thingy
<mungojerry> bigcalm, is it portable and chargable?
<bigcalm> mungojerry: yes
<mungojerry> :D link pls?
<bigcalm> No idea where it is though :D
<bigcalm> Oh, humm
<directhex> wiimote!
<bigcalm> mungojerry: google bluetooth gps
<mungojerry> thanks bigcalm found one
<bigcalm> mungojerry: goodo. Though a wiimote might be a cheaper device to play with (esp if you already have one)
<mungojerry> the gps device is 15 quid and is chargable via usb
<mungojerry> probably pants for that price
<bigcalm> Depends upon your requirements. Might do all that you need it to
<popey> mungojerry, apple magic trackpad :)
<mungojerry> doesn't fit in the pocket very well to lock your screen when you walk away
<bigcalm> Oh, that's what it's for then
<popey> why not use a phone?
<shauno> a mouse would work, but it'd give a strong visual of "and I'm taking my toys with me"
<mungojerry> phone+bluetooth tends to kill battery
<mungojerry> hence single purpose device that sits in a bag
<popey> most blutetooth things kill battery
<mungojerry> yeah
<popey> how about a bluetooth headset?
<popey> they're tiny and rechargeable
<mungojerry> true. i have a plantronics one that lasts a long time
<mungojerry> i don't know whyt the colleague in question doesn't just lock his pc though
<shauno> sounds like a bad use-case for bluetooth really.  don't most devices do the same thing, where they crank up the power when they're searching for their host?
<shauno> so leaving it on & searching for a pair would give you a lot less battery than you expect
<mungojerry> tbh i think its a sledgehammer for a nut, since autolock after 5 mins and remembering ctrl-alt-l should be suifficient
<popey> attach your pass to a usb key
<popey> pull key = screen lock
<bigcalm> davmor2: you cannot win The Game
<bigcalm> davmor2: you can only loose
<davmor2> No I beat I would die in the game and I did I win Muhahahahahahahahahaa
<bigcalm> I'm confused, or you are
<mungojerry> hey, windows8 is resulting in some cool laptops
<mungojerry> i won't be an early adopter on these touch-enabled laptops but hope more come out
<davmor2> bigcalm: I'm guessing it is a hunger games thing, which I'm still to see so I just thought I befuddle you :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: http://www.losethegame.com/
<jacobw> transformers ftw
<bigcalm> jacobw: step up or down?
<nzerox> hey guys
<nzerox> i'm trying to get openct to work on ubuntu
<nzerox> but i'm getting the following error:
<nzerox> Error: can't open /var/run/openct/status: Permission denied
<jacobw> :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: that's just wrong
<bigcalm> davmor2: that's the point of The Game :)
 * davmor2 wonders if we can get that web apped :)
<jacobw> nzerox: did you install from packages? which user are you running it as?
<DJones> Dear Mr Knight
<DJones> I would like to apply for the job of IT Support Officer which was advertised in today.s
<DJones> Journal.
<DJones> For the past four years I have worked in IT with Brown.s. As the company is moving
<DJones> to another part of the country, I will be made redundant in two weeks. time.
<DJones> My present job involves various IT duties in person and by phone. I also:
<DJones> .	 deal	with	IT	queries
<DJones> .	 handle	incoming	calls
<DJones> .	 handle	incoming	and	outgoing	post
<DJones> .	 order	printer	consumables.
<popey> oooops
<DJones> Before this job I was a trainee with Brightson.s (Solicitors) in North Street, Invertown
<DJones> and completed RSA I and II in Business Administration and have various Microsoft
<DJones> package experience.
<DJones> I have always enjoyed working with people and think my previous experience will
<DJones> allow me to work as part of the team and to be an effective representative of
<DJones> your company.
<dwatkins> don't we have a bot that stops flooding?
<DJones> I am available for interview at any time and could start work immediately. You can ask
<DJones> for references from my present and previous employers.
<DJones> Please find enclosed a copy of my CV for more information.
<DJones> I look forward to hearing from you.Urgh, sorry
<DJones> sorry
<DJones> Stupid middle click
<DJones> Yep
<popey> heh
<jacobw> um, bad paste?
<DJones> Only in the main channels
<dwatkins> I've done that sort of thing before, at least you didn't give away any sensitive information, DJones
<jacobw> yus
<bigcalm> DJones: good luck :)
<dwatkins> ah I see
<dwatkins> yeah, hope you get the job :)
<popey> wow, that's a mighty long password you have there DJones
<bigcalm> Shame the channel is publicly logged
<DJones> That only pasted half of it
<bigcalm> Where can we read the rest? ;)
<DJones> Probably floating round in my mind
<dwatkins> on a penguin
<nzerox> jacobw: hey i installed it from packages yep, I am running at as a normal login
<DJones> Just looking at options at the minute since my job came to an end last week, trying to work out if I can build up enough clients of my own to work for myself
<jacobw> nzerox: try `sudo service openct start`
<jacobw> nzerox: the package provides an init script that starts and stops openct on boot
<nzerox> jacobw: i did reboot the system after installing
<nzerox> jacobw: i will try it again, now
<jacobw> hang on
<jacobw> check `sudo service openct status`
<jacobw> that should tell you if the service is running or not
<nzerox> that returns Usage: /etc/init.d/OpenCt {start|stop|restart|force-reload}
<jacobw> unfortunately, not all init scripts provide the status option
<nzerox> thats no problem
<jacobw> you can search the process tree with `ps -e | grep 'openct'`
<nzerox> that doesn't return anything
<nzerox> even after i do sudo /etc/init.d/openct start
<nzerox> It shouldn't be this hard to make a card reader work :(
<dwatkins> it's not upper case is it? i.e. try grep -i 'openct'
<nzerox> anyone here have a infinity usb unlimited smart card writer working on ubuntu?
<jacobw> http://www.opensc-project.org/openct/wiki/QuickStart
<jacobw> have you used openct-tool as described?
<nzerox> that's what i am trying to do
<nzerox> but i get that error
<jacobw> ok, it's a permissions problems, run the command with sudo
<dwatkins> the upper case nature of the script concerns me
<nzerox> when i run with sudo there is no error
<nzerox> but
<nzerox> that file doesn't not exist in the system
<Jora> hi
<jacobw> hi
<mungojerry> just spun up gnome3.6 to take a look. pretty if you like using a couple of maximised windows, useless for those with 30-40 windows open
<mungojerry> or even 15-20
<mungojerry> still a palaver to get an application opened
<ali1234> popey: looks like the "improve unity menus" thing has been quietly dropped from 12.10
<ali1234> the option to disable global menus that is
<ali1234> makes me glad i didn't try to persevere with unity in the hopes it would improve
<popey> ali1234, some things we really wanted to get done this cycle just didn't have enough time
<ali1234> yeah
<popey> so some things have been pushed back to 13.04
<popey> not necessarily "dropped" as such
<ali1234> it's unfortunately that adding yet more rubbish like LIM and HUD comes before fixing existing bugs
<popey> we're landing stuff late even now
<ali1234> this is why i dropped unity
<ali1234> you obviously didn't want to get them done that much
<ali1234> otherwise you would have given them higher priority
<popey> thats oversimplifying it just a smidge :)
<ali1234> kiss
<davmor2> popey: I think smidge is underselling it a mediocre amount maybe
<jacobw> unity2d is gone now :(
<kvarley> I just got an Acer Aspire 5750G which has an Nvidia GT 540M graphics card in which uses their Optimus technology. What are my options with regards to drivers on Ubuntu 12.04.1?
<davmor2> kvarley: try the live cd?
<kvarley> davmor2: All works aside from the brightness control of the screen and Unity 3D so I assume they are both driver issues
<kvarley> Afk 20mins
<exaem> evening all
<exaem> doubt any of you remember me but I used to come on here about a year ago under the alias "jutnux" :P
<mattt> exaem: ohai
<exaem> mattt: hiya
 * MartijnVdS likes his new 85mm lens
<MartijnVdS> http://www.flickr.com/photos/treenaks/7924180282/in/photostream/ <-- result
<exaem> MartijnVdS: Very nice.
<exaem> Bet it cost more than the camera itself?
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: WHY U NO BASH SCRIPT
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: It's the creation of the gitlab projects that is a pita
<bigcalm> I converted 114 svn projects to git with a bash script though
<dogmatic69> http://bin.cakephp.org/view/259293754
<dogmatic69> gitlab?
<bigcalm> You don't know of gitlab?
<dogmatic69> :/ nope
<bigcalm> It's an open source implementation of github :)
<bigcalm> Run it on your own servers
<dogmatic69> ah, I heard of this github clone on the weekend
<dogmatic69> apparently it is pretty much 100% clone
<bigcalm> Indeed
<bigcalm> Not everything is there though. No pretty graphs for instance
<dogmatic69> hmm, github must be pretty pissed :D
<bigcalm> Doubt it
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: ok, how about a quick bit of selenium?
<bigcalm> It still requires you to host your own server
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: never used it. Might work though
 * bigcalm shrugs
<dogmatic69> you can code up (in php) some browser clicks etc, and then feed array of names etc
<dogmatic69> 100 is worth automating
<dogmatic69> lol
<dogmatic69> irony https://github.com/gitlabhq/gitlabhq
<bigcalm> :)
<davmor2> evening all
<dogmatic69> o/
<dogmatic69> oh, alt-tab in vm's == WORKING \o/
<davmor2> whats the name of the irc proxy server thingy lots of people use to stay connected to irc please?
<Darael> davmor2: Well, /I/ use irssi-in-screen-on-server, but there may be another method...
<davmor2> Darael: I'm pretty sure there is it's like a proxy server
<davmor2> czajkowski: ping ^
<bigcalm> davmor2: I use irssi's built in proxy. It's very easy to use
<Darael> davmor2: I've seen mention of an IRC bouncer - could that be it?
<bigcalm> davmor2: http://irssi.org/documentation/proxy
<davmor2> Darael: could be
<davmor2> bigcalm: ta I have a look a it
<bigcalm> davmor2: ignore the compile bit, it comes with the module installed with ubuntu
<davmor2> I keep ircd and I'm pretty sure it's not that :)
<mgdm> +1 for irssi inside screen (or actually tmux for me these days)
<Darael> mgdm: I've been meaning to try switching to tmux, but never got around to it.  Just how much better is it?
<czajkowski> I use screen + irssi
<czajkowski> so I always have it running and then just connect in when I watnt to chant and detach when away
<mgdm> Darael: I'm not using much of it, really, I just find it has a more comprehensible set of shortcuts and options
<Darael> There's an irssi script that sets /away when screen's detatched - very nifty when combined with irssi-plugin-xmpp.  I don't really need another IM client any more (though I do use Psi+, in point of fact).
<bigcalm> I do the same, except use the proxy and connect to it via xchat. Using an extra script: when I disconnect, I'm automatically set away. Any mentions or private messages are then emailed to me. Most useful
<mgdm> yeah, screen_away.pl has been ported so I have a tmux_away.pl :)
<Darael> mgdm: I was going to ask.  Excellent.
<davmor2> okay thanks all
<davmor2> bigcalm: except everyone is now going to wait for you to be away and fill your inbox for you :D
<mgdm> muahahahahhaa
<bigcalm> davmor2: yeah, people play now and then when they find out. And then it dies off and becomes useful again :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: :D
<bigcalm> Still here, sorry :P
<Myrtti> tmux + irssi â¥
<mgdm> Myrtti: yep
<czajkowski> AlanBell: is there a jam on in london this week ?
<AlanBell> I was going to ask the same question of popey when he is back cz
<AlanBell> <tab>
<davmor2> hello from irssi, just having a play locally
<davmor2> this is gonna take some getting used to :)
<Jora> new to freenode?
<davmor2> nope playinf with irssi of a gui client
<Jora> oh okay
<davmor2> playing even
<bigcalm> DRINK!
<Jora> skal!
<davmor2> bigcalm: no ta
<bigcalm> Looks like davmor2 is new to typing ;)
<bigcalm> davmor2: fine, be thirsty
<davmor2> bigcalm: no I'm typing on a rocking laptop which isn't helping :D
<AlanBell> davmor2: irssi connectbot on android is rather fine for screen+irssi on phone
<davmor2> AlanBell: I'm having a play with irssi locally first I might look at something more permanent on my server after.  Or do what bigcalm does and use the proxy if I can figure it out :)
<AlanBell> yeah, it just all makes sense when you start a conversation on the laptop then walk out and continue it on the phone
<davmor2> yeah that is kinda why I was looking into it
<AlanBell> see, now I am on the laptop, but I am off to bed, I could continue this conversation from bed, but that would be odd, so I will go to sleep instead
<AlanBell> night o/
<davmor2> AlanBell: night dude
<davmor2> I'm off too as my battery is about to die
<bigcalm> Sleeeeeeeep
#ubuntu-uk 2012-09-04
<christel> morning :)
<MartijnVdS> \o
<Monotoko> mornin' all
<diplo>  Morning all
<christel> morning diplo :)
 * jussi prods at christel
<diplo> Morning christel et all
<christel> how are yoou?
<christel> heeey jussi! :D
<jussi> :D
<diplo> Sorry popped out for a sec, not to bad.. dropped the boys off this morning so peace for a few days
<diplo> god I need it this week, younger one started school yesterday
<diplo> What a busy day!
<christel> ooh did he enjoy it? :)
<diplo> yeah I think so, was defo more tired in the evening though
<christel> :)
 * TheOpenSourcerer is looking forward to Thursday when my two go back to school. Although truth be told they have been pretty good over the holidays.
<diplo> Tom the older one is in his element as they are learning about dinosaurs, wants to tell everyone about the dinosaur museum ( Natural history museum )
<diplo> heh TheOpenSourcerer, still exhausting though isn't it.
<christel> TheOpenSourcerer: your boys are so cute! like their mother!
<christel> diplo: fantastic :D
<christel> i like dinosaurs!
<TheOpenSourcerer> I (and they) just like the more settled routine
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-) Thanks christel - what about the dad though?
<christel> hehe
<MartijnVdS> Doctor Who will have dinosaurs next week
<MartijnVdS> !
<christel> oh i like their dad, he is good fun and most charming!
<christel> MartijnVdS: Yessss! Dinosaurs on a spaceship! much better than snakes on a plane :D
<MartijnVdS> Last weekend's episode was great too!
<christel> i loved it, it was really well done and i hope they manage to keep the standard up for the rest of the series
<diplo> I really must start watching Doctor Who :)
<christel> YES
<diplo> Watch the odd episode here and there but not watched a whole series yet
 * TheOpenSourcerer was in Swansea at the weekend having a lovely time with a bunch of mates - golf, drinking and general boys behaving badly type stuff.
<christel> i'm fairly new to the whole dr who thing, didn't really watch any of the old old stuff, started watching when chris eccleston was the doctor :)
<MartijnVdS> I've tried watching old-who, but I can't really get into it for some reason
<MartijnVdS> maybe because TV was "slower" in the 60s :)
<christel> MartijnVdS: haha
<christel> TheOpenSourcerer: ooh that sounds like fun
<bigcalm> Morning peeps :)
<christel> HELLO BIGCLAM
<bigcalm> HELLO CHRESTIL
<christel> HOW ARE YOU?
<bigcalm> SHOUTY. HOW ARE YOU?
<christel> WELL I AM FEELING RATHER LOUD?
<christel> :D
<MartijnVdS> </capslock day>
<AlanBell> morning everyone
<MartijnVdS> morning mr Bell
<christel> beyond the loudness i feel GOOD and my toes are wet!
<christel> :)
<christel> morning tinkerbell <3
<bigcalm> Wet toes? Is that a sign of a healthy christel?
<bigcalm> Tinkerbell? Oh how sweet ;)
<AlanBell> or a sign of bad plumbing
<bigcalm> It's gone 9am, I should get dressed :(
<diplo> TMI!
<bigcalm> What's wrong with a dressing gown?
<AlanBell> that isn't a dressing gown, it is a telecommuting suit
<diplo> Well you didn't mention anything like that at the start, could have been starkers!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning AlanBell
<bigcalm> diplo: I shall let you imagine what you wish :D
<christel> bigcalm: haha naw, dewy grass! :P
<bigcalm> Cool :D
<bigcalm> How are the grumpy games going?
<christel> what are the grumpy games?
<bigcalm> There's a grumpy games maker, I assumed he made grumpy games ;)
<bigcalm> New neighbours next door. Where we've had different students for the last 3 years, we now have a nice young lady and her 3 year old daughter. Said daughter seems to have a tantrum every 30 mins or so
<christel> aww
<bigcalm> Now wishing that the party wall was thicker
<bigcalm> On go the headphones
<christel> david has recently discovered the joys of tantrums
<bigcalm> Oh dear
<christel> yesterday we had a massive tantrum because he wasn't four years old and couldn't yet start school...
<bigcalm> Oh my!
<christel> this morning we had a massive tantrum because he couldn't stay home to play with me instead of going to the childminders
<christel> i should have lied and told him he was going to school...
<jussi> aww :P
<bigcalm> HEh
<TheOpenSourcerer> This is really weird... Anyone got any suggestions? Type "tedial" into Google (no quotes). Click any of the resulting links for the Tedial site and you get sent to the Google Homepage! But stick www.tedial.com into your browser and it is fine...
<bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: going direct to www.tedial.com takes me to google as well
<jussi> TheOpenSourcerer: wow
<TheOpenSourcerer> really?
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.tedial.com/
<TheOpenSourcerer> That doesn't work?
<jussi> someone has hacked your dns?
<AlanBell> ooh, it doesn't for http
<AlanBell> https is fine
<jussi> TheOpenSourcerer: yep, that goes to google for me
<bigcalm> Going to http://237.229.15.62.static.jazztel.es/ gets me to their site
<TheOpenSourcerer> Works for me
<AlanBell> hmm, now it works for me too
<bigcalm> Yay redheads!
<bigcalm> Or the same one twice
<christel> mmmredheads
<czajkowski> popey: is there a jam in london this week ?
<popey> possibly, will send a mail out if so
<popey> not much take-up
<czajkowski> ah ok
<czajkowski> cheers
<TheOpenSourcerer> Could it be because there is no dns for the top-level "tedial.com" record perhaps?
<dwatkins> bigcalm / christel - there's a forum for that, redheadded godesses ;)
<christel> *grin*
<dwatkins> I posted on it because I was trying to remember the name of a TV show.
<Seeker`> vroom
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :)
<dwatkins> anyone here use BranchOut on facebook? I got a request from a friend on there, I'm assuming it's a bit like LinkedIn.
<christel> mooorning JamesTait :)
<dwatkins> and good morning :)
<JamesTait> christel: Hello dear. :) How are you this fine morning?
<AlanBell> bigcalm: christel: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-19461177
<MartijnVdS> \o/ Holland
<MartijnVdS> also
<MartijnVdS> not Holland. Breda = Brabant :)
<christel> JamesTait: i am very well! thyself lovely?
<christel> AlanBell: fantastic
<JamesTait> christel: I'm alive and well and adjusting to the peace and tranquility of having the boys back at school. :)
<christel> JamesTait: hehe a completely different world eh? :P
<TheOpenSourcerer> JamesTait: Having to wait until Thursday for ours :-(
<JamesTait> christel: They're not usually *too* bad, to be honest, but I'd forgotten what it sounded like to not have them playing outside.
<JamesTait> Which reminds me, how's the garage conversion going popey? :)
<JamesTait> TheOpenSourcerer: Hardly seems worth going back so late in the week. :-P
<popey> JamesTait, well! I took the weekend off to go camping so nothing happened this week, but last week I cleared everything
<popey> so there's nearly nothing left
<AlanBell> my eldest has gone to secondary school today, the others go back tomorrow
<popey> ours go back next week
<popey> they've just left for the day to some farm
<popey> \o/ quiet house
<mungojerry> new idea for a Dr who... bernie ecclestone!
<JamesTait> popey: Ah, that's a sensible approach. I kind of didn't have much of a choice, and moved a lot of stuff into the garage when we moved house. Most of it is still here, but I'm getting through it slowly.
<JamesTait> I just shifted stuff out for the couple of days I spent doing the work, and shifted it back in afterwards, along with a load of stuff that we'd stuff in nooks and crannies in the house.
<mungojerry> failing that, boris johnson
<popey> yeah, I will do that with the final bits
<popey> there was just a load of junk that needed getting rid of first
<czajkowski> popey: how was the camping?
<popey> great!
<czajkowski> excellent
<czajkowski> saw some of the pics but I was across the pond
<czajkowski> speaking of ponds
<czajkowski> did folks like the new Dr. who ?
<christel> yesssss
<christel> loved loved loved loved it
<bigcalm> Humm
<bigcalm> Was ok
<christel> OK? OK?
<christel> it was AWESOME
<bigcalm> That 1st half was a little over dramatic
<mungojerry> i started browsing the internet during the obligatory 5 mins of emotional cheese
<mungojerry> dr who seems very cinematic nowadays
<bigcalm> Indeed
<bigcalm> Hope it settles down again
<mungojerry> only when they get a new writer. seems to follow a cycle
<mungojerry> also , the weakest point is always the bit where they solve everything and escape. sometimes it's just "SHOUT SHOUT flux capacitor reverse the neutron flow, sonic screwdriver OFF WE GO!!"
<mungojerry> still watch it though :D
<dwatkins> Doctus Ex Machina
 * MartijnVdS can has VERY tiny OpenWRT router
<christel> :o
<MartijnVdS> christel: see G+ :)
<diplo> MartijnVdS: Just saw the post
<diplo> Wats it do, just cable ?
<MartijnVdS> diplo: wifi, ethernet, usb (also, power-in is micro-usb like RPi)
<MartijnVdS> it has 4M firmware, 32M RAM
<MartijnVdS> and several free GPIO pins \o/
<TheOpenSourcerer> MartijnVdS: Who are you on G+?
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: just added you :)
<diplo> cool, unfortunately I'm on DSL now, so would mean I'd need another device in between
<TheOpenSourcerer> NM Found you :-)
<christel> ooo
<TheOpenSourcerer> That is small.
<MartijnVdS> it's also only US$22 on ebay (free shipping) :)
<christel> it is a bit! very cute
<MartijnVdS> I'm going to add a small tube with a temperature sensor to one side
<MartijnVdS> and have it make pretty graphs of that + some network stats
<MartijnVdS> the wifi (802.11n, 2.4GHz, 150 mbit max) is nice to have
<MartijnVdS> Apparently, it's supposed to be a tiny Mi-Fi (USB-powered, bring your own 3G stick)
<MartijnVdS> but I can't read chinese ;)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<TheOpenSourcerer> lo brobostigon
<brobostigon> good morning TheOpenSourcerer
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAtje5weAU0&feature=youtu.be
<diplo> heh
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ouch: "1,000,001 Apple Devices UDIDs linking to their users and their APNS tokens." http://pastebin.com/nfVT7b0Z
<MartijnVdS> ewps
<diplo> I've scanned through it, but didn't see how they came across them ?
<MartijnVdS> I don't think you "come across" things like this
<MartijnVdS> you "go looking" for it
<diplo> Not meant like that, I mean how they obtained them
<diplo> Not found anything yet
<diplo> http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/12/09/04/hackers_leak_1m_ios_device_ids_supposedly_taken_from_fbi_agents_laptop.html
<diplo> Closest I've found so fa
<diplo> r
<TheOpenSourcerer> I think I saw that the FBI had them and accidentally let them slip out!
<JohnRobert> what use is an ios device id?
<diplo> Google it, a fair bit it seems
<diplo> Links to Facebook/Twitter etc so people can access stuff with faked id
<bigcalm> The original data contained around 12m entries and a lot more personal detail. Scanning though the paste, they chopped out a lot and just left the IDs so people could see if they were included within
<popey> heheh
<popey> (mine's not in the list)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Mine neither ;-)
<diplo> Of the 1million they've leaked
<diplo> Another 11million+ still to go
<diplo> :)
<JohnRobert> lots of ios devices
<popey> heh
<MartijnVdS> Hmmm mango/pear/mint juice
<TheOpenSourcerer> Blimey - our local MP gets Secretary of State for Health - follows in Virginia's footsteps.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Amazing what a Charterhouse Schooling gets you these days.
<davmor2> Morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> Nice - iPlayer improvements (Download and watch later - 30 days) http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19474824
<TheOpenSourcerer> Coming to Android but on iOS now
<JohnRobert> it'll still use flash on android no doubt
<JohnRobert> making it still bad.
<bigcalm> get_iplayer \o/
<bigcalm> Speaking of which, I should run it for updates
<bigcalm> Hi davmor2
<JohnRobert> mah, I don't watch anything anymore anyway
<mgdm> it'd be a stupid choice to make it use Flash on Android given that you can't get Flash for Android any more if you don't already have it
<mgdm> I presume the BBC are not quite that thick
<MartijnVdS> it probably was the cheapest way to get it developed quickly?
<MartijnVdS> Codec availability (and DRM availability) is hit/miss on android :(
<davmor2> bigcalm: you set for Thursday?
<davmor2> gord: Can we expect you dude?
<bigcalm> davmor2: so far I am
 * czajkowski hugs davmor2 
<davmor2> mrevell is a dad again so I guess he'll be missing it
<davmor2> czajkowski: how's the back now?
<czajkowski> it has a patch on it
<czajkowski> so good
<davmor2> czajkowski: in that case prod morning :D
<mungojerry> anyone know how to export a chart from libreoffice?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Time to head off to London. ttfn
<davmor2> mungojerry: to what?
<mungojerry> davmor2, to jpeg
<davmor2> mungojerry: you can do it the real quick and easy way.......shift+prtscn select the chart,  but failing that I think there is a export option so I guess you just select it and export but I could be wrong?
<mungojerry> thanks, i've done it, but it was ugly. copy pasted to LO Draw
<mungojerry> export was grey
<mungojerry> draw allows the subseequent export
<JohnRobert> I must say, these apple keyboards are pretty good
<JohnRobert> good for typing fast on anyway
<JohnRobert> quite weird using macs, my new job has an office full of them
<JohnRobert> I can't say I can see any advantage in using mac os x over ubuntu or something like that though
 * daubers dislikes apple keyboards
<daubers> especially the short ones
<daubers> missing useful keys like # is annoying
<JohnRobert> yeah, the missing # key is odd
<SuperMatt> it's hidden under alt+3
<SuperMatt> I'm using a mac keyboard with an ubuntu vm, and I just have the keyboard layout set to regular uk layout
<SuperMatt> cos I can touch type, it doesn't bother me that the keys are labelled wrongly
<JohnRobert> me neither
<mungojerry> do they not make uk layout keyboard then?
<mgdm> that *is* the Mac UK-layout keyboard
<JohnRobert> number 2 is @ symbol
<JohnRobert> is that us layout?
<JohnRobert> I can't remember
<SuperMatt> I'm not sure
<mgdm> It's the US layout for a PC but UK layout for a Mac
<SuperMatt> I really don't mind keyboard layout changes, I get frustrated for about two keystrokes, and then my fingers remember what they're supposed to be doing
<Pendulum> it's US layout for a Mac as well
<mgdm> I occasionally use a Mac keyboard on my Thinkpad
<mgdm> that gets somewhat confusing
<SuperMatt> I'm seriously pondering dualbooting this mac with ubuntu, seeing everything I do at this job is done through either terminal or through a web browser
<dick> Hello chaps. I'm getting the smurfovision problem on flash (where skin tones are blue, and blue is orange). I've corrected this in the past by disabling hardware acceleration, but now I can't even click on that once I've brought it up, it just does not work.
<JohnRobert> well I've been living in aus for 4 years
<JohnRobert> it's us keyboard there
<JohnRobert> so it's easier for me to use a US layout
<dick> and after ten or so minutes of playback the video just out and out crashes.
<popey> dick probably bug 968647
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 967091 in adobe-flashplugin (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #968647 Wrong tint in flash when it uses video acceleration" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/967091
<gord> davmor2, nope, too much going on and too much travelling coming up, all next week i'm in and out of the london office :(
<davmor2> gord: :(
<gord> week after that i'm flying off to south korea for two weeks holiday though \o/
<daubers> ooooooooooohhhhhhhh irc via nexus 7
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<BigRedS> With grub 1.x, when setting the default, anyone know what defines an 'entry'? I've a few possible entries that're just a title and an empty root, do those count?
<BigRedS> they're used to just display a message (it's a Debian install that's just had Grub2 installed, and so it's an explanation that this is chainloading grub2 and might be broken)
<BigRedS> Ah! They are counted, accorting to the ubuntu wiki no less
<diplo> daubers: Thoughts on it, very tempted at the mo!
<diplo> brb
<marsilainen> hi all, I'm using gnome-keyring to prompt me for the passphrase of my private SSH key when I use it to login to remote servers etc - is there a way to get it to 'forget' after so long (and therefore ask me for my passphrase again)?
<marsilainen> I wouldn't mind if it was after a period of time, or when my screen gets locked or something else similar
<MartijnVdS> marsilainen: in the dialog where you type it, there's a thing that opens if you click it
<MartijnVdS> it asks how long to remember it for
<marsilainen> ah
<marsilainen> hmm, what if I've already got past that point? do I have to log out again?
<marsilainen> or can I kill the agent or something?
<MartijnVdS> there's a tool
<MartijnVdS> let me find the name
<marsilainen> thanks
<MartijnVdS> I thought seahorse would do it
<MartijnVdS> but it doesn't seem to have those features anymore
<MartijnVdS> hmm
<MartijnVdS> logging out would be the easiest :|
<popey> bug 1045779
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1045779 in virtualbox (Ubuntu) "virtualbox video driver doesn't load on quantal guests" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1045779
 * popey tickles gord 
<marsilainen> MartijnVdS: ok, brb
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: ah wait!
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: the password is a separate entry in the list in Seahorse
<MartijnVdS> it lists the SSH key, and then the unlock key for it, separately
<MartijnVdS> if you remove that, it should re-ask, I guess
<marsilainen> MartijnVdS: the only option it gives is "Automatically unlock this key when I'm logged in" :/
<marsilainen> which I leave un-checked
<MartijnVdS> which Ubuntu version are you using?
<marsilainen> but I'd like it to 'lock' the key again at some point before I log out since I leave my machine on for long periods
<marsilainen> 12.04
<MartijnVdS> there's ssh-add -D
<MartijnVdS> and ssh-add -X/-x
<marsilainen> hmmm
<marsilainen> so if I use ssh-add -D (somehow automatically whenever I lock my screen) then I will get automatically prompted for passphrase next time I try to use it?
<MartijnVdS> yes
<MartijnVdS> you can try it manually now of course
<marsilainen> yeah, just tried that
<marsilainen> that would seem to work
<MartijnVdS> and triggering on screen-lock should be possible.. it sends out dbus events you can catch (for instance)
<marsilainen> anyone got any idea of the easiest way to hook that into screen lock?
<marsilainen> ah, ok
<marsilainen> will look into that
<marsilainen> thanks
<marsilainen> appreciate the help
<gord> popey, clickied
<popey> ta
<Laney> silly expensive trains to london :(
<davmor2> irssi_proxy enabled muhahahahahahaahhaah well a little bit maybe
<mungojerry> new series of red dwarf coming next month..bit scared :S
<mungojerry> MartijnVdS, what's the tl-wr703n?
<JohnRobert> yeah well imo red dwarf gets worse and worse
<JohnRobert> they keep coming back
<diplo> Anyone know if FreakyClown idles on irc at all ?
<diplo> Unless anyone here is any good at stegonography ?
<bigcalm> diplo: what does /whois FreakyClown tell you?
<JohnRobert> I've never found stegonography very interesting
<JohnRobert> I find hiding images in music more interesting
<JohnRobert> :)
 * popey tickles christel with a server
<diplo> bigcalm: Someone stateside
<christel> oh yes! i had forgotten about that
<bigcalm> diplo: not him then? Ok
<diplo> I only find it interest in that it's a challenge on a security thing
<diplo> I dont *think* so
<diplo> I think he may be _freaky on here but wasn't sure
<christel> today/tomorrow are Bad Days for me (deadline ahoy and i am way behind) -- i might be able to pick it up thursday (or at the weekend if that works for you?) :)
<diplo> No worries, I've caught him here once before i think that's all
<diplo> will message on twitter maybe
<mungojerry> diplo, stegui?
<popey> christel, tricky
<mungojerry> http://nnc3.com/LinuxMag/Magazine/Archive/2010/112/020-024_steganography/article.html
<diplo> Trying steghide atm mungojerry, will look at stegui now ta
<JohnRobert> I think it'd be pretty cool to hide messages in the mpeg artifacts of an mp3
<diplo> ah it uses steghide anyway mungojerry, so I think i know how to use it.. just not getting far, will read that page and see if i can learn more though
<diplo> cheers
<christel> popey: when would be good for you? :)
<daubers> diplo: Nexus is quite cool :) Waiting for the "OOooooooh shiny" effect to wear out tbh...
<popey> christel, i could drop it off to someone nearer of course
<popey> or i could take it to the tip
<popey> :)
<christel> hehe then the boys would cry i am sure, i'm not sure who lives out your way but some of them must do :)
<JohnRobert> someone here has a nexus 7
<JohnRobert> I ought to ask if I can have a look
<JohnRobert> gotta say though, I was quite impressed by ipad 3 screen
<JohnRobert> not that'd I'd buy one
<dogmatic69> The ipad3 is pretty much better than the nexus in all departments
<diplo> Well I'll give you a week or so daubers and ask again
<diplo> I can't afford the ipad3 dogmatic69 :)
<daubers> diplo: Probably best. I bought mine for some very specific functions.... and need to write the apps for 2 of those so a week is a good idea :)
<marxjohnson> The bang:buck ratio of the Nexus 7 is very agreeable
<marxjohnson> Plus it's a handy size
<brobostigon> and is nice and light. sturdy, as it survives my drum stick bag.
 * popey wonders what to do with his drobo
<popey> looks like ebay
<daubers> BURN IT!
 * daubers books himself back into Pyros anonymouse
 * popey takes pics of it
<diplo> brobostigon: You already have one ?
<JohnRobert> heh
<JohnRobert> I remember when you got your drobo
<JohnRobert> first one anyway
<JohnRobert> then the controller broke
<JohnRobert> :p
<brobostigon> diplo: a nexus7, yes.
<diplo> And your thoughts overall, worth the buy ?
<diplo> Want it as a replacement in a way for kids using my laptop :) as well as fo rme not having to use lappy for quick checks on things.
<diplo> And lastly for train trips to Nottingham to watch stuff on
<brobostigon> diplo: well, suitability for kids i couldnt say, really. but i watched last night, stuff off i iplayer, in HD, and it was beautiful.
<brobostigon> diplo: the one problem i have found, it doesnt show as a normal mountable device, only mtp, so am using airdroid.
<brobostigon> that annoys me.
<diplo> OK, doesn't sounds the end of the world but not great
<brobostigon> diplo: i am sure there is a solution, the usb is capable of otg, so it should be possible, i have mine rooted, so i will experiment with various possibiilities.
<daubers> brobostigon: It's more because the internal storage is now part of the other bit of storage, so to make it a mass storage device you have to unmount that and then make it USB mass storage
<daubers> However, the MTP thing works fine for me....... so might be me being non-plussed about it
<brobostigon> daubers: ah, i see what you mean, makes sense.
<daubers> brobostigon: If you've rooted it, then just install a samba server or something and do it across the network. I don't intend to root minee
<popey> brobostigon, what made you root a n7?
<brobostigon> daubers: interesting idea.
<popey> doesn't that break stuff?
<brobostigon> popey: it has broke nothing, that i can see. i did it out of curiousity.
<popey> i think it breaks the ability to rent films from the play store?
<daubers> yup
<popey> and maybe other digital content
<brobostigon> popey: books seem to work.
<popey> probably just movies then
<brobostigon> i have no interest in the movies, so probably why i didnt notice.
<popey> i see bbc are doing iplayer downloads now
<daubers> They are?
<brobostigon> via their app, yes.
<popey> yeah, you can download and keep for 30 days
<popey> for people who want to download stuff and watch offline, e.g. on holiday
<brobostigon> their desktop app, for windows did this already, if i remember.
<gord> couldn't they just make the shows available for 30 days instead of a week instead?
<popey> no good for offline, no gord
<popey> some stuff is available longer than a week
<popey> especially dramas where you may want to go back and catch up
<gord> oh right you mean you want to watch the shows on holiday, i get you
<davmor2_> davmor2: ping
<JohnRobert> pong
<AlanBell> hmm mozspace is shut
<AlanBell> need to find somewhere with wifi, relatively quiet
<AlanBell> in central London
<davmor2> AlanBell: Library?
<christel> AlanBell: czajkowski's house!
<czajkowski> eh?
<christel> hehe
<christel> well, that is where i would go because you are my most favouritest person in london!
<christel> :P
<davmor2> christel: I'm sorry the correct answer was the Whole Widest World not London, you fail as a kiss up ;)
<gord> AlanBell, invest in a pair of noise cancelling headphones?
<christel> davmor2: ah see, i was stating a fact not attempting to kiss up
<christel> i don't have to, we're like BFFs forever(!?)
<davmor2> christel: :P
<AlanBell> fun fact, you can pick up the mozilla guest network from the starbucks next door
<AlanBell> gord: funnily enough I got some earlier today
<gord> i love mine, should invest in some upgraded ones that work even better
<davmor2> gord: Bose are amongst the best in if that helps
<AlanBell> yup, this works well, I don't need to go round to czajkowski's house
<christel> hehe
<czajkowski> why are you at mozilla?
<davmor2> czajkowski: I'm gonna guess cause he is in London and needed a network
<AlanBell> basically, yes
<AlanBell> had a skype call scheduled and the mozspace is awesome (but closed)
<czajkowski> ahh
<AlanBell> I have cheap noise cancelling headphones because I fall asleep on planes wearing them and wake up surrounded by bits of headphone
<AlanBell> I can't be trusted with nice things
<christel> do you bang your head hard against the wall whilst sleeping? :o
<AlanBell> I have no idea, I am asleep when sleeping
<davmor2> christel: no it's the people around him bouncing things off his head to try and wake him up cause of the snoring, I bet :D
<christel> davmor2: ah! makes sense
<AlanBell> are tickets for England football matches at Wembley stadium normally more than Â£20.12?
<BigRedS> I'd have thought so
<AlanBell> looks like it might not be a massive bargain and I really am not that interested, but if anyone wants me to get 4 tickets for Ukraine or San Marino then give me a shout
<gord> is it really Â£20.12 though? or is it Â£20.12 + additional charges
<gord> the additional charges are where they really make their money
<AlanBell> http://www.ticketmaster.co.uk/event/3700491DEF708942?did=gamesmakers look like rubbish seats at the back
<popey> there are tickets on level 1
<popey> 2.50 processing fee
<AlanBell> http://www.ticketmaster.co.uk/event/3700491DFC108B5D?did=gamesmakers is the San Marino link
<christel> 20 is pretty cheap for an england match :)
<christel> (hell, 20 is what you'd pay to go watch aldershot town at home!) :)
<MartijnVdS> christel: what in Norway?
<christel> MartijnVdS: :P
<davmor2> 20 is cheap it's about 50 for a wolves match :D
<bigcalm> Who'd want to pay to watch football?
<NimChimpsky> many idiots do
<popey> Well indeed!
 * bigcalm tuts
<bigcalm> Snooker and ice hockey are sports one is permitted to pay to watch
<bigcalm> At a push, cricket and rugger
<christel> i don't think i'd pay to watch snooker
<christel> ice hockey perhaps
<christel> cricket and rugby definitely
<christel> football too i suspect
<popey> I'd pay to watch snooker if I had trouble sleeping
<popey> same for cricket
<bigcalm> Heh
<NimChimpsky> ^_^
<uzi34> been so many years since ive been on irc, hello all. dont suppose theres any networking gurus out there?
<popey> http://cubieboard.org/
<JohnRobert> hi simon
<diplo> I used to love watching snooker, but only watch 20mins or so at a time now before I  get up and do something else
<JohnRobert> does freenode support ipv6 or something?
<brobostigon> JohnRobert: yes.
<JohnRobert> simonrjon: are you the Simon from S24?
<JohnRobert> bit of a coincidence if so :p
<JohnRobert> unlikely, but then the name is exactly the same
<JohnRobert> which is also unlikely
<JohnRobert> mind = blown
<simonrjon> JohnRobert: nope, fairly certain that's not me
<JohnRobert> simon r jones?
<simonrjon> well, that is my name, but i'm not from s24
<diplo> looks good popey
<diplo> links don't work for demos though
<JohnRobert> heh
<JohnRobert> well there's another simon r jones here who happens to be my boss
<JohnRobert> and also someone who would maybe be on this channel
<JohnRobert> oh well, freaky
<simonrjon> it's a surprisingly common name
<JohnRobert> yeah well it's not really strange
<JohnRobert> it's just a little odd the initial is the same too
<JohnRobert> but then over the course of a lifetime I guess it's not that odd to find someone with the same three names
<JohnRobert> I am 30 and this is the first time it's happened
<JohnRobert> do you live in cambridge also simonrjon ?
<JohnRobert> :p
<simonrjon> fortunately not, otherwise i fear your mind will be blown again :P
<JohnRobert> lol
<JohnRobert> goodo
<popey> heh
<popey> wonder if mpt-testing is testing thunderbird
<mpt-testing> no, xchat-gnome
<mpt-testing> seeing if it has any sounds when someone mentions my name
<mpt-testing> Could you do the honours? :-)
<popey> mpt-testing, does it?
<popey> mpt-testing, well, does it?
<popey> mpt-testing, come on man!
<popey> mpt-testing, I hope it does!
<mpt-testing> Apparently not
<mpt-testing> Just notification bubbles and messaging menu
<mpt-testing> Oh, there's a "Sound Notification" plug-in
<mpt-testing> "Play a sound when you receive a private mes..." (description in an unresizable window)
<popey> outrage!
<mpt-testing> thanks popey
<popey> np mpt-testing
<mpt-testing> Ironically it plays a sound when you mention my name and it *is* focused
<aquarius> popey, ping about arm boards and Ubuntu and things :)
<directhex> arm /o\
<aquarius> :)
<aquarius> directhex, ping about intel boards with everything on board which are powered off usb and cost less than fifty quid. :)
<directhex> look behind you, a three-headed monkey!
<popey> aquarius, what?
<aquarius> popey, most of the arm boards out there -- that cubie thing you recently mentioned, raspi, etc, etc -- don't have onboard wifi. Is this because I'm looking in the wrong places for a Â£50 Ubuntu-supporting ARM board with wifi, or because the physics don't work out? feel free to say "I have no idea", but you seem to be more in touch with this stuff than me :)
<popey> i have no idea
<popey> but
<popey> it makes sense not to have wifi
<popey> wifi makes sense in battery operated mobile devices like phones/tablets
<aquarius> makes sense to the people making it, sure. Makes sense to me: not so much. ;)
<popey> makes less sense in a device like that
<popey> well, it doesn't have a display, so good luck with your battery powered HDMI connected TV
<aquarius> I am not l33t enough to have cat 5 all over my house. I do have sockets. :)
<popey> anyway, 12 quid buys you a decent wifi USB dongle
<popey> "decent" as in "works on ubuntu"
<aquarius> yeah, but most of them get crap range off a wifi dongle because they can't give it enough power :(
<aquarius> although that may be me misunderstanding all this stuff as I blunder around in the dark. :)
 * popey shrugs
<popey> I have a decent access point in the centre of my house
<popey> some of these boards do have wifi, as an add-on
<aquarius> ah, then I am looking in the wrong places. cheers.
<bigcalm> My raspberry pi is still in its packaging :(
<dogmatic69> :(
<dogmatic69> poor little rpi
<bigcalm> I know
<bigcalm> I do have a plan for it. Just a matter of finding time and energy
<bigcalm> It might push me to learn python
<bigcalm> But I doubt it :D
<popey> ooh, reminds me, need to rebuild my revo
<popey> after oggcamp
 * MartijnVdS really likes OpenWRT on his TP-Link 703N
<MartijnVdS> it's so TIN
<MartijnVdS> Y
<bigcalm> popey: when shall we resume work on the project?
<popey> good question
<bigcalm> My new router will come tomorrow and 1st thing its getting is OpenWRT and hopefully share my phone's 3g connection
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: what is your plan for it?
<bigcalm> Here I am, hitting refresh on a shipping website :(
<dogmatic69> Im currently using mine as a type of print server
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: replace my current dd-wrt Linksys router. I'm currently without a USB port so can't share a 3g connection across my LAN. The new router has one and is documented to run open-wrt
<AlanBell> right, I am done with stuffs and in London and have an offpeak ticket so I can't go home for a few hours
<AlanBell> anyone up for a beer?
<bigcalm> Me! But too far away
<bigcalm> Last time I found myself in that situation, I went to Pizza Express on Euston Road :D
<davmor2> AlanBell: that's you problem everyone it up but up to far to join you for a beer :D
<davmor2> bigcalm: irssi awayproxy set to 0 is pretty good :)
<bigcalm> Humm?
<bigcalm> I used a plugin to manage when I'm away
<davmor2> bigcalm: that's what it does, when you set away or disconnect your client it will email you and message you when you reconnect
<bigcalm> davmor2: that's it, handy eh?
<christel> oh speaking of beer
<christel> bigcalm: jussi will be up your neck of the woods soon, you guys should take him out
<bigcalm> 19 days to BEER!
<bigcalm> Where is near?
<christel> birmingham iirc
<bigcalm> Who is jussi? :D
<christel> lol
<christel> jussi: who are you? :D
<davmor2> christel: that'll be my neck of the woods then
<christel> davmor2: yar! take him out and show him a good time
<christel> they don't have that in finland, they only have saunas in which they practise getting cooked to death
<christel> :)
<bigcalm> Time for doggie walking. Toodles for now :)
<christel> i am eating repulsive swedish sweets but i cant stop :(
<christel> enjoy doggie walking
<davmor2> christel: they can't be as bad as gord's awful japanese sweets
<christel> ooh do tell
<davmor2> christel: annoy gord he can give you details of our faces, at least I didn't spit mine out like bigcalm and moreati iirc
<christel> gord: remind me to annoy you
<davmor2> christel: annoy gord
<davmor2> christel: annoy gord
<davmor2> christel: annoy gord
<davmor2> christel: annoy gord
<davmor2> was that what you had in mind
<christel> davmor2: yes.
<davmor2> christel: annoy gord
<christel> he is clearly immune
<davmor2> christel: Or playing on a console and ignoring us
<christel> perhaps!
 * MartijnVdS saw Sinterklaas candy in the store today
<MartijnVdS> the end (of the year) is nigh!
<christel> indeed it is
<christel> IT IS ALMOST CHRISTMAS \o/ \o/ \o/
<MartijnVdS> christel: no Sinterklaas! :)
<MartijnVdS> christel: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinterklaas
<christel> i have some belgian friends who celebrate(!?) sinterklaas in like early december or something
<christel> it always confuses me
<christel> (because he totally looks like a posh santa!)
<MartijnVdS> 5th
<MartijnVdS> he's the origin of Santa :)
<MartijnVdS> ("Sinterklaas" -> "Santa Claus")
<christel> :D
<christel> i love christmas and advent
<christel> happy times ahead \o/
<jussi> bigcalm: I am me of course!
<MartijnVdS> nomnom chocolate-covered kruidnoten: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kruidnoten
<brobostigon> christmas freaks me sometimes, these forced get-togethers,
<jussi> bigcalm: davmor2: Ill be attending the automotive linux summit.
<christel> brobostigon: mmmsee i just love the whole preparing for christmas thing -- decorating, baking, making, cooking etc
<christel> the whole build-up!
<christel> :D
<christel> MartijnVdS: ooh how different are they to pepernoten on taste?
<MartijnVdS> christel: very!
<christel> better? :)
<jussi> christel: ++ to the build up thing
<MartijnVdS> do you know speculaas? it's like that
<brobostigon> christel: i dont mind the celebrating, that can be good, but things tend in our family, to be very forced, and less down to what we feel like doing, actually having fun.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: <dalek voice>HAVE A NICE CHRISTMAS! OBEY! OBEY!
<MartijnVdS> like that? :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: that i distinctly dislike, yes, exactly.
<christel> brobostigon: ah yes, that can be a bit hard work
<christel> MartijnVdS: i do not! perhaps i need to visit you before christmas to eat all the things! :P
<brobostigon> christel: it was a couple of years afo, i had a really bad, asd attack, very unpleasant.
<brobostigon> ago*
 * christel hugs brobostigon 
<MartijnVdS> christel: I could send a box across the sea
 * brobostigon hugs christel back.
<christel> MartijnVdS: yesss! that would be awesome! in return i will send you some british tre..wait.. maybe something norwegian, that'd be tastier!
<n1md4> Evening.  I'm configuring irssi to autoignore on booting irssi.  I've added what I think is the right config http://pastie.org/4664017 it's autojoining, but not autoignoring.  Any ideas?
<MartijnVdS> christel: what kind of tastiness comes from Norway?
<ali> Hi all, my step-daughter has been given computing homework which requires Visual C# Express.  She has Ubuntu on her laptop; is there anything in the Ubuntu/GNU-Linux world that is compatible ?
<christel> besides me? hrm hrm i dunno EVERYTHING is tasty in norway :D
<brobostigon> christel: i just went outside, took my tobacco with me, and took me, around an hour i was told, to recover,
<christel> (lutefisk?)
<MartijnVdS> ali: unlikely
<MartijnVdS> christel: is that the fermented shark?
<christel> brobostigon: auchies, that must have been very exhausting
<brobostigon> christel: it was more frightning, that energy draining, but yes, that also.
<christel> aged stockfish and lye!
<MartijnVdS> christel: No sugar or chocolate though
<christel> oh true, lutefisk would be a rubbish christmas treat
<christel> i will BAKE you something norwegian and christmassy!
<SuperEngineer> hmmm... it's not full dark yet, it's warm [for once]... &
 * SuperEngineer see Christmas talk... 
<SuperEngineer> bet you also love the 4 months of Christmas carols in the shops ruining real Christmas - which , Im' told, is still in December
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: we got here because I saw Sinterklaas candy in the supermarket :)
<SuperEngineer> i rest my case ;)
<brobostigon> christel: last time i had a bad attack, a friday night at my local, enjoying some music, just over a year ago, my ex was there, and she touched my right shoulder, and caused just such an attack, i got lucky, one of the barmaids there, also teches autistic children, so knew what to do.
<MartijnVdS> now that's a useful combination of skills :)
<hamitron> she sounds dangerous
<hamitron> :/
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: probably travels with the Doctor too sometimes :P
<brobostigon> christel: sorry, i dont mean to blabber,
<christel> nooo that is fine
<brobostigon> :) thank you.
<christel> i am glad it's been a while since the last time, it cant be easy when it happens :)
<brobostigon> christel: definatly not, i just know, if people try and keep calm around me, and just talk to me, that is the best to do.
 * MartijnVdS keeps talking
 * brobostigon talks with MartijnVdS 
<MartijnVdS> I wonder if the weather is going to be this good all week
<MartijnVdS> (and next week)
<brobostigon> well, i certainly know, here, tmrw and day after, should be ok, to fair.
 * MartijnVdS has 2 weeks off from work
<brobostigon> enjoy :)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: did you see the photo I posted yesterday? Of the (purple) flowering heaths?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i did not, no.
<MartijnVdS> flickr.com/photos/treenaks
<MartijnVdS> newest 3
<jussi> christel: MartijnVdS: you can buy speculaas wherever euroshopper is present
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: wow, :)
<jussi> they are called dutch spice biscuits in english
<MartijnVdS> jussi: yay Euroshopper :)
<jussi> MartijnVdS: I have dutch heritage - Im quite up with these things :P
<MartijnVdS> I'm all Dutch. I just like this channel more than -nl ;)
<christel> "all dutch" \o/
<MartijnVdS> christel: well, there's a lost German somewhere in my family tree.. about a century ago
 * dutchie is not dutch at all
<dutchie> :D
<MartijnVdS> dutchie: ohai mr Holland :)
<dutchie> o/
<daubers> dutchie: Lies!
<daubers> We know the Truth!!!
<dutchie> ooer
 * daubers managed to get lost on his way to his eclipse window again
<dutchie> haha
<MartijnVdS> daubers: try vim instead ;)
<dutchie> i blame unity for selecting the wrong terminal
<daubers> MartijnVdS: But eclipse has all the shiny android stuff in it
<dutchie> i want the work one, not the irc one!
<daubers> heh :)
<dutchie> ahem
<MartijnVdS> daubers: didn't you make panoramas as well? :)
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Hmmmm?
<daubers> I made some silly big ones with Hugin..... why? Not done any for ages though
<MartijnVdS> daubers: I forgot my aperture yesterday
<MartijnVdS> so mine are half blurry 8-)
<MartijnVdS> daubers: (see my flickr for the 2 I made)
<daubers> MartijnVdS: nice
<n1md4> I'm getting spammed on IRC, kirrus said there is a freenode mod on here that might be able to help?
<MartijnVdS> n1md4: there is
<MartijnVdS> CHRISTEL!!! :)
<daubers> He's so subtle you know
<christel> n1md4: are you in any bitcoin channels by chance? :)
<Azelphur> bitcoin channels are fun atm
<christel> (some guy is insisting that someone in #bitcoin stole 15,000 bitcoins from him and has fired up a botnet which attacks that channel and a number of other bitcoin related channels on the network, it's been ongoing for few days, we've so far blacklisted about 10,000 exploited hosts in various blacklists, however he seems to have access to a significant amount of compromised machines and is unlikely to stop anytime soon -- we're ...
<christel> ... banning and blacklisting as it takes place mind)
<christel> basically he claims that he will keep this up until his 15,000 bitcoins are returned to him
<Azelphur> he's probably right about the 15k bitcoins, just wrong about the misguided attacks and general stupidity :p
<Azelphur> I'm down 1k right now, in the same boat that he is.
<christel> curiously, his botnet doesn't actually join the channel, so there is a client in there which feeds the nicklist to the botnet continuously (whenever a new person joins from what i can tell)
<Azelphur> indeed, I've noticed that too
<jussi> MartijnVdS: technically Im all dutch also... just my granparents decided to live in australia :P
<Azelphur> I just set umode +R and havn't had any issues since
<christel> Azelphur: i'm tempted to clear the channel (i.e. kick all users) to see if i can spot what the client might be, but i fear it would piss off all the users in there :D
<Azelphur> haha probably
<ali1234> +R is good
<ali1234> but if someone messages me who isnt a bot, do they get a message that i didn't get their message?
<n1md4> I am.
<Azelphur> I like the automated reporting scripts that got handed out, that was a clever idea
<n1md4> christel: ^
<Azelphur> ali1234: yea they do, I tested
<ali1234> cool.
<ali1234> then i will keep it on permanently :)
<n1md4> (sorry, 1 year old needed me for a while there)
<ali1234> n1md4: /mode n1md4 +R
<n1md4> what does that do?
<ali1234> it prevents unregistered usings from pming you
<ali1234> *users
<christel> i am also tempted to modify the ircd config a bit as that might keep the bots at bay (until the botmaster works out what i've done) -- however, it could also cause issues for some genuine clients so i am undecided as of yet
<n1md4> Ah, thanks, that'll do it.
<Azelphur> christel: I think it'll solve itself eventually, the guy who has the coins is saying he's gonna pay people back, and he's bound to run out of drones before long
<Azelphur> so one or the other should occur :)
<ali1234> ok, a question. i want to make an exact copy of a mysql production database for development purposes, on the same server. so exact copy with different name, and also have a script to sync production -> dev at any time. what's the best way?
<christel> Azelphur: true! or they'll get bored at some point :)
<Azelphur> that too :)
<christel> n1md4: i'm very sorry, i know it is dreadfully annoying (and the contents of the spam is far from pleasant) -- we have a few users who want us to modify the ircd to allow us to intercept messages and silently drop at ircd level, however, that's not an approach we're too keen on for numerous reasons (it not being very ethical to implement an easy way to snoop on users being the main one, followed by resources)
<n1md4> christel: no worries, the internet has far worse to offer ;)
<ali1234> Azelphur: yyou don't really still believe pirate is gonna pay do you??
<Azelphur> ali1234: he's already paid out a number of people
<christel> how did he end up with everyones bitcoins in the first place?
<christel> (bitcoins are a bit of a mystery to me)
<ali1234> christel: ponzi scheme
<Azelphur> christel: ^ or the first bitcoin bank
<ali1234> promised 7% interest per week
<christel> aha
<Azelphur> christel: as it stands he's behaving odd though and not communicating very well, he's paid a few people back but he's making strange demands and keeps missing payback dates :p
<ali1234> he can't pay because he does not have the money
<ali1234> this is how ponzi schemes work
<Azelphur> ali1234: #speculation is that way -->
<ali1234> he gave all the money out in interest payments
<ali1234> now he can't pay back the principle
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speculaas
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: hi lots of words I don't understand and pictures of strangely shaped biscuity looking things
<ali1234> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Speculaasbrokken.jpg
<ali1234> how very apt
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: the stuff is called "speculaas", and every time people "speculate" I think of it :)
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: also, because it's yummy
<Azelphur> hehe :P
<ali1234> MartijnVdS: is that the ginger flavoured stuff that you get with coffee in fancy restaurants?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: yes, but then in big chunks an a lot better-tasting
<Azelphur> you've made me hungry, so I'm going to the shop to buy lots of crap now.
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: not our fault ;)
<jussi> yay, aljazeera has been hacked...
<ali1234> hmm assad loyalists
<jussi> ali1234: sounds fun
<ali1234> not really
<jussi> ali1234: do tell me more..?
<ali1234> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_civil_war
 * bigcalm looks in
<jussi> ali1234: yes, Im aware of the context, but why are they hacking aljazeera?
<jussi> hi bigcalm
<ali1234> because al jazeera doesn't agree with the official government version of events
<bigcalm> Hello jussi
<bigcalm> jussi: you're not from Oulu by any chance are you?
<jussi> bigcalm: I have been known to live in Oulu in the past...
<jussi> (only for the last 7 years :P )
<jussi> bigcalm: why?
<bigcalm> jussi: the only person with the name Jussi was the ex-bf of one of my ex-gfs
<bigcalm> She was from Oulu and as far as I could tell, so was he
<jussi> bigcalm: there are many Jussi's in oulu...
<bigcalm> But I'm sure that there is more than one Jussi ;)
<jussi> and Im an austalian, only I lived in oulu for sometime...
<bigcalm> It's good to check these things
<jussi> hehe
<bigcalm> Goodness, how did you get such a Finnish name?
<jussi> what nationality was the girl?
<bigcalm> Finnish
<jussi> oh, duh, reading fail
<bigcalm> :)
<jussi> bigcalm: changed it
<bigcalm> Fair do :)
<jussi> bigcalm: Finns say yooooossuua instead of proper Joshua, so it was just easy
<bigcalm> Yep, tis a fun language for sure
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: https://www.dropbox.com/s/nsc3n5fxk9hkoau/2012-09-04%2021.43.40.jpg?m I blame you entirely for this :P
<bigcalm> One year I learnt how to sing the alphabet
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: I deny all the things!
<Azelphur> lol
<bigcalm> And I still say thank-you, thanks and milk in Finniah
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: does it involve lots of vowels and " marks?
<jussi> bigcalm: yes, I speak it kinda ok, its fun :P
<jussi> MartijnVdS: yes!
<jussi> milk is easy though...
<jussi> Maito
<jussi> its pretty close in pronunciation to "my toe"
<bigcalm> Mitta?!
<jussi> MitÃ¤?
<MartijnVdS> say it with a Spanish accent!
<bigcalm> Bah, I was more about pronouncing it than spelling
<bigcalm> I'm bad enough at English
<jussi> MartijnVdS: I cant pronounce my surname correctly in dutch, which is kinda funny
<MartijnVdS> jussi: but.. those are easy! :)
<jussi> (yes, I have the guttural sch ...)
<MartijnVdS> jussi: non-Dutch people can't pronounce the "ij" in my name :)
<jussi> ie. hock up a big one when you say it...
<MartijnVdS> jussi: you can do it! just practice with Scottish
<jussi> lol
<jussi> MartijnVdS: yeah, the ijs are hard
<MartijnVdS> ijs is hard ja :)
<MartijnVdS> bilingual puns \o/
<jussi> bigcalm: go now and sy YrjÃ¶ - complete with rolled r's :P
<bigcalm> :D
 * bigcalm gets his head into gear
<jussi> right, off to bed now - its almost midnight and I have to get to work for an 8am start...
<MartijnVdS> it's almost 23:00, you mean :)
<jussi> MartijnVdS: in your place, not mine
<bigcalm> Bah, it's not even 10pm yet ;)
<MartijnVdS> jussi: ah the far east
<jussi> hehe
<jussi> the communist states :P
<jussi> anyway, now really bed time
<MartijnVdS> nn
<MartijnVdS> good idea though
<MartijnVdS> sleep.
<davmor2> So guys who is using quantal already?
<davmor2> Brb
<n1md4> christel: the mode +R command didn't have the desired result.
#ubuntu-uk 2012-09-05
<ali1234> apple UUID leak sure is interesting
<ali1234> er, UDID
<Azelphur> ali1234: just fyi people are lawyering up over pirate, and he has registered businesses at his address :p
<ali1234> http://gawker.com/
<ali1234> lulz
<Azelphur> hahahaha
<Supermanintights> hi, I've recently set up my thunderbird with my calendar settings, and I'm looking for a way to run it through a screensaver - either directly or a screensaver that just displays the content behind it in some way.  I want to leave my calendar running in the background on one of my machines, but I want to try and avoid image burn etc.
<ali1234> image burn does not happen any more
<ali1234> ok, it does, but it's not something you need to worry about
<Supermanintights> are you sure - I could be leaving my screen (LCD tv) on for hours at a time on a static calendar image (well static save for updates)
<ali1234> 24 hours a day?
<Supermanintights> possibly not quite 24, as I sleep for some, play video games for others - but you could be talking at least 6 hours a day, often non-stop
<Supermanintights> because of the nature of my work, a calendar like that would be really useful
<ali1234> LCDs don't burn in the same way that CRTs do
<Supermanintights> yeah - I've researched enough to see that, just saw that it's still techinically possible to get a similar effect, which is why I was just a bit concerned - I love my tv :D
<AlanBell> morning all
<christel> morning
<jussi> mrgh...
<jussi> morning I guess
<MartijnVdS> \o
<MartijnVdS> you're an hour late :)
<christel> hehe
<MartijnVdS> christel: he was supposed to be at work at 8, and it's past 9 (for him) now :)
<christel> oopsie!
 * MartijnVdS has fresh tea!
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<christel> :D
<christel> i have lukewarm coffee :(
<christel> hehe
<MartijnVdS> eww
<christel> ikr?
<diplo> Morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o diplo
<christel> diplo: :D
<diplo> So an actual on ish topic this morning but probably to early
<diplo> It looks like my company are going to brand some 1u servers to sell as a new software/hardware stack
<diplo> So all the machines will be exactly the same, basically what I'd like to know is, is it worth trying to optimise Apache/php/mysql to this hardware or will the differences from stock to an optimised install not make a big enough difference
<diplo> This could be from 6 - 10 users up to 80-100
<MartijnVdS> I'd only worry if you're hitting limits somewhere
<MartijnVdS> can you scale up with even more hardware? Why not do that.. unless you're google-scale or Amazon-scale, it's probably not worth it
<MartijnVdS> (unless, as I said, you're hitting a specific bottleneck)
<diplo> It's not been tested with lots of users yet, I think it's quite heavy on apache/mysql with a few ( 3? ) users
<MartijnVdS> time for some profiling :)
<diplo> OK, sounds promising.. point me in the direction of what to look at ? Please
<AlanBell> optimise the sql indexes of the app
<MartijnVdS> Yes, learn how to tune mysql indexes first
<MartijnVdS> then if that's not enough, tune Apache
<AlanBell> log all slow queries and queries not using indexes then fix them all
<MartijnVdS> and if that doesn't work, switch to a real RDBMS :P
<diplo> ah ok, I've optimised sql indexes before.. will enable that
<diplo> Is their a way of logging slow processes with apache like mysql slow queries
<MartijnVdS> no
<MartijnVdS> there's http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/misc/perf-tuning.html thoguh
<AlanBell> the reason for slow page loads will be slow queries
<MartijnVdS> separating static files out to a separate, dedicated server might also help
<MartijnVdS> You can use nginx or lighttpd on that instead of Apache (even more light-weight)
<diplo> yeah, it's an internal app ( our erp system ) much like OpenERP
<AlanBell> but only optimise stuff that is actually slow
<diplo> but it's not hugely mysql dependant, we have our own middleware that writes db to a cisam ( legacy ) database and reads as well
<diplo> But when I watch top, each time a link is clicked I notice a 3% spike on apache
<MartijnVdS> Only optimize things that are slow, and only optimize after profiling :)
<diplo> and I was thinking 3% x 20 users might start bogging it down
<MartijnVdS> diplo: can you "script" user activity? Even crudely?
<AlanBell> php-apc is a free performance boost
<MartijnVdS> On a test setup?
<MartijnVdS> That will help finding bottlenecks
<diplo> You mean like run the stuff they would be doing ?
<MartijnVdS> yes, or similar things
<diplo> Well I saw a firefox pluging which the name has eluded me for now that does the job for you that you can record and then keep running
<AlanBell> selinium
<diplo> heh, just found it in my mail, yeah
<AlanBell> kind of good, but does need some manual tweaks to recorded sequences
<AlanBell> and can break on firefox upgrades
<diplo> Thanks for input guys, will take a look at stuff today
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning earthlings
<jacobw> hmm, 12.10b1 tomorrow
<jacobw> morning Sourcererling
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<MartijnVdS> whoa.. a schwuk :)
<schwuk> MartijnVdS: :)
<n1md4> christel: Are you around?  Still getting a load of IRC spam :-\
<czajkowski> n1md4: perhaps ask in #freenode for help there
<n1md4> czajkowski: sure, only that christel was advising yesterday.  I'll ask on freenode.
<czajkowski> n1md4: yup but that is the channel to get more advice
<n1md4> czajkowski: Appreciate that :)
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :D
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> I get the feeling that my router is in .be - doubt I'll see it today
<bigcalm> Amusing that the last status on the tracking website is "Parcel is routed"
<MartijnVdS> Not switched?
<bigcalm> So it'll turn up tomorrow. One of the 2 days a month when I'm not in my home office
<bigcalm> Bah
<christel> aww
<ali1234> hmm you don't need to sign the CoC to make a PPA any more. when did that change?
<ali1234> anywhoo, i approve of this
<ali1234> https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA is out of date and still says oyu need to sign the CoC
<mungojerry> what's wrong with CoC?
<ali1234> nothing wrong with it's content
<bigcalm> By signing the CoC, I learnt more about how one uses keys and encryption :)
<ali1234> i already know that stuff
<bigcalm> I didn't :)
<bigcalm> You tend not to learn stuff until it actually becomes a need
<ali1234> and i find the idea of signing an agreement that says i will be nice to be rather silly
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: that's where you're wrong ;)
<ali1234> but that is irrelevant
<mungojerry> ali1234, it means if you're not nice, your account can be closed without argument. because you knew you were supposed to be nice
<ali1234> the point is, i just made a PPA without signing the CoC, so the requirement has been quietly dropped
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: I don't know how to do a lot of network stuff, but I'll learn if I find I need to
<ali1234> mungojerry: exactly. and it is extremely vague
<mungojerry> but i like the sentiment
<ali1234> mungojerry: which means by signing it i am essentially allowing it to be used against me
 * bigcalm kicks nginx into submission
 * daubers hands bigcalm the nginx LART
<mungojerry> what's the most reliable sw for copying isos to usb? the ubuntu one works for ubuntu only, unetbootin seems to not work quite a lot
<diplo> bigcalm: Are you nginx savvy ?
<JohnRobert> heh, I am
<JohnRobert> I installed it just the other day
<JohnRobert> well, actually I wouldn't say I'm savvy
<JohnRobert> but I got it working for the office here
<diplo> I've got it working ok for the most part, want to play with concrete5 CMS
<diplo> http://85.119.82.250/concrete/
<bigcalm> diplo: not in the slightest :D gitlab kind of forced it upon me
<JohnRobert> oh right
<diplo> Supports concrete5 request URLs
<diplo> Is the part I can't get to tick :)
<diplo> I've tried lot's of different things but not worked it out  yet.
<JohnRobert> wait
<JohnRobert> wait
<JohnRobert> I thought by nginx you meant ngircd
<diplo> LD
<JohnRobert> stupid names!
<diplo> :D
<ali1234> mungojerry: many ISOs are hybrid these days. you can just dd them
<JohnRobert> having said that we do use nginx here.. but I don't know anything about it
<mungojerry> ali1234, dd to the /dev/sdd or sdd1?
<diplo> Thought I better start using my VPS I pay money for
<ali1234> mungojerry: to /dev/sdd
<mungojerry> and should my machine freeze for the entire time? cos it does :(
<mungojerry> i thought there was a kernel fix for the desktop freeze during heavy i/o
<mungojerry> maybe it's just my machine thuogh
<ali1234> you wish there was a fix for it
<mungojerry> i thought there was lots of news about it
<mungojerry> a year ago
<ali1234> that was not the IO scheduler. that was the process scheduler
<ali1234> i assume you are refering to the BFS thing?
<diplo> Hows the game coming along ali1234 ?
<ali1234> con kolivas?
<mungojerry> no, more recent
<mungojerry> my memory's not what it was though
<mungojerry> anyway, my machine's still working atm ..which is unusual
<mungojerry> usually copying a DVD sized iso to the usb kills the machine for 20 mins
<diplo> not sure of the name, racing through tubes etc
<ali1234> diplo: been busy working and playing tekkit recently, so not done wanything with it
<diplo> :(
<diplo> looks good though
<ali1234> it has no name yet, and i've been working on it for nearly 10 years so don't hold your breath
<mungojerry> wow
<mungojerry> what's your day job ali1234
<ali1234> freelancing
<ali1234> so when i've got no work, i do my own stuff :)
<mungojerry> nice :)
<mungojerry> sometimes i get to do my own stuff for work purposes :D
<ali1234> project i've been building: http://drumoff.tv
<ali1234> just finally got it online yesterday
<ali1234> totally not interesting unless you play drums
<mungojerry> i know a few drummers
<ali1234> send them the link please :)
<mungojerry> will do
<mungojerry> i recommend having a youth category too for under 12s
<mungojerry> or similar. there's some wicked young drummers out there
<ali1234> i'm not sure on the legalities of doing that
<ali1234> we're not even sure we will get enough entries for 1 category yet
<mungojerry> tell popey , he has lots of friends on the internet :D
<shauno> for U12's, believe it's fine here, not-so-fine in the US
<ali1234> running the competition isn't my department, i'm just the tech support
<mungojerry> you don't even have to show the drummer
<popey> I'd recommend you show jono
<mungojerry> jono likes rawk
 * mungojerry submits a video of air dumming
<mungojerry> s/dum/drum
<ali1234> technically i think that is allowed lol
<mungojerry> making mouth noises
<ali1234> rules say you can only use bass hat and snare but it doesnt say you have to use all or any of them
<mungojerry> does this count ;) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7SrSFn7isk&feature=plcp
<ali1234> it's longer than 30 seconds, so no
<mungojerry> :P
<ali1234> kit is pretty much right though
<davmor2> Morning all
<mungojerry> yo
<mungojerry> running hdparm (non cached) on a thin provisioned disk yields 600MB/s , over a 125MB/s link?
<mungojerry> real test (e.g. dd) yields 100MB/s
<mungojerry> what's hdparm doing wrong?
<mgdm> megabits vs, megabytes? (just a guess)
<mungojerry> nope
<daubers> sitting in a cache somewhere?
<mungojerry> dd yields more realistic results.
<mungojerry> hdparm -t uses buffers but not cache
<daubers> does that no only work on real disks though? Rather than networked storage?
<daubers> i.e. is it just sitting it in RAM?
<mungojerry> it's an iscsi connected disk
<daubers> urgh
<mungojerry> running it on thick provisioned disk works
<daubers> nuff said
<mungojerry> it's enterprise quality storage
 * daubers has never like iscsi
<mungojerry> i am running against a 10Gbit and 1Gbit iscsi connected disks
<bigcalm> mgdm: glad to see you haven't given up irc :D
<mungojerry> it's a stopgap until FC
<daubers> What do you get on the 10Gb link ooi?
<mungojerry> well that's the beginning of the problem
<mungojerry> much less than we shou,ld
<daubers> which is?
<mungojerry> can't get IBM to admit the problem
<mungojerry> hdparm giving around 130MB/s and i would expect more than 3x that on a V7000
<daubers> How many drives in a V7000?
<mungojerry> there's 12 600GB SAS 10k atm
<daubers> from 16x3TB SATA drives I can get ~800-900MB/s over a single 10GbE link (using NFS)
<daubers> Raid 6'd ^
<mungojerry> we have a serious problem and i think it's IBM fault
<mungojerry> they supply the blades, and the SAN and the customised vmware
<mungojerry> last problem we had was very similar for sas connected storage, and it was with their customised vmware
<mungojerry> dodgy lsi VIB
<daubers> ooof... SAN..... I'll step away from that now
<mungojerry> daubers, is that hdparm speed or dd'ing a 1GB file for example
<daubers> mungojerry: That's dd'ing a 20GB file (we always test with files bigger than the amount of RAM in the NAS)
<mungojerry> the consulting company didn't even notice the problem and tried handing over to us
<daubers> If I do it smaller than the free RAM in the NAS I'll get it running as 1200MB/s (i.e. near line speed)
<mungojerry> 1048576000 bytes (1.0 GB) copied, 15.7809 s, 66.4 MB/s
<mungojerry> lol
<mungojerry> that's read speed
<mungojerry> gonna have to install linux directly onto a blade instead of vmware to find out where the problem is
<mungojerry> the iscsi on the 1gb  link is faster than the 10gb v7000
<mungojerry> i didn't choose this hardware btw
<mungojerry> have a support call open with IVBM atm but they aren't looking holistically
<mungojerry> just at the SAN logs
<mungojerry> daubers, do you dd the file locally or to /dev/null?
<daubers> Read tests I'll dd to /dev/null
<daubers> local dd will be limited by the local disk
<mungojerry> yes, just checking you wre doing to same test as me
<daubers> An interesting one I tend to run as well is do it with lots of files simultaniously
<daubers> CIFS tends to work better that way for some reason
<daubers> or give better results anyway
<mungojerry> have you used iozone?
<mungojerry> http://www.iozone.org/
<daubers> Yes..... but I'm generally not interested in IOPS for my final use of these systems
<daubers> the streaming read tests tend to be more reliable for what I'm doing
<mungojerry> it helps with tuning nfs too though
<daubers> Again... not really with what I'm doing :) End use is video editing, so lots of large streaming reads. Most of the IOP based things are based around random read/write cycles
<daubers> Which is what most servers will end up doing
<daubers> (i.e. databasing or working with smaller files)
<mungojerry> are you also involved in backups?
<mungojerry> for your work systems
<daubers> Yes, but the backups are quite slow (and not much changes in the office itself)
<mungojerry> having a running argument as to the expected daily % change on our systems
<daubers> heh
<daubers> I was arguing the toss with someone the other day who's recorded daily changes was less than a tenth of a percent of the total dataset
<mungojerry> :-o
<mungojerry> i think that's called static :P
<mungojerry> our data includes VMs
<mungojerry> windows has quite high daily change on quiet system
<mungojerry> linux is much lower.
<mungojerry> and is more tunable
<jacobw> do you backup things outside of the users home directory?
<mungojerry> yes, all data and entire VMs
<mungojerry> just discovered http://sugru.com/ looks like someting every man should own
<jacobw> i'm increasingly convinced that only backing up home directories, conffiles that have changed and data like mysql dumps and Maildirs is good for most use cases
<jacobw> ubuntu + overlay of stuff that makes it server X
<mungojerry> unfortunately the enterprise has all sorts of apps that are complex
<mungojerry> virtualisation makes restoration of service a million times easier now though
<mungojerry> and consultations have tendency to only recommend windows, and PHBs have tendency to do what highly paid 3rd parties tend to recommend
<gord> i've started developing in a VM recently, its so much nicer to go, oops. shouldn't of upgraded, everythings broke. restore snapshot!
<davmor2> gord: christel needs to annoy you
<bigcalm> Morning davmor2
<gord> then i'm closed for business! no more customers today
<christel> oh i cant remember what i wanted you for
<davmor2> bigcalm: hey dude, steak minus 8hours  and counting
<gord> fantastic
<christel> oh sweets.. davmor2 said you had to tell me about some Amazing Japanese Sweets
<mungojerry> japanese colleague brought amazing sweets. found out they were sweets but dried white bait UGHGH
<bigcalm> davmor2: we shall see. I had steak at the weekend. Don't know if WS's one will live up to the high standard
<gord> christel, http://gordallott.com/+ i share them on my google + thing every two weeks, have a service that sends me japanese candy twice a month :)
<bigcalm> christel: gord likes to eat the most disgusting things. I'll swallow almost anything, but not what he has to offer...
<ali1234> o_O
<bigcalm> Please don't read bad things into that statement!
<mungojerry> ^-^
<gord> the sweet potato candy i got last time was delish
<christel> sweet potato candy.. fantastic
<christel> bigcalm: :o
<christel> bigcalm: what were these ones he made you guys try? :)
<mungojerry> ali1234, the dd direct to usb didn't work :(
<davmor2> christel: That's why I said annoy gord,  I'm pretty sure it was sour pear something or other
<bigcalm> christel: a question for gord
<christel> gord: is it like Surprise stuff or do you select preferences or something? :)
<bigcalm> That 'sweet' was one hell of a surprise
 * mungojerry wants sweets now
<gord> it was umboshi candy, umboshi is a pickled plum dish that japanese people love but its an aquired taste that i think is fun to surprise people with
<mungojerry> eric the elephant mmm
<ali1234> mungojerry: the ISO does have to be specially made to do it. ubuntu ISOs should work
<ali1234> what ISO are you trying to use?
<shauno>  I tried some recently that were licorice & chilli. that was .. confusing
<gord> christel, its a surprise, basically the guy running it selects 2-3 candies and stuffs 400 envelopes with them and mails them out to people all over the world. he sends out really nice emails explaining what everything is i think the how it works on http://candyjapan.com explains it better than i ever could
<mungojerry> ali1234, i used an elementaryOS nightly build. however since this is based off ubuntu i'm using the ubuntu startup disk creator now, whic
<mungojerry> h should work i hope
<christel> gord: ooh danke
<mungojerry> elementary is looking really neat atm
<bigcalm> Any body know of a good tut on writing init.d scripts?
<jacobw> they're not that standardized
<davmor2> bigcalm: for what system? Don't forget you have upstart and systemd now instead
<bigcalm> Debian 6.0 (squeeze)
<jacobw> they just respond to !$ and start/stop/restart the process with whatever mechanisms available
<jacobw> Uh, $1 even
<directhex> bigcalm, cp /etc/init.d/skeleton /etc/init.d/myscript
<bigcalm> directhex: ta
<jacobw> upstart/systemd is much more logical, but upstart has some limitation and systemd isn't really implmented anywhere
<directhex> bigcalm, nano /etc/init.d/myscript
<bigcalm> directhex: latter part a bit patronising :)
<bigcalm> "nano -w" ftw
<directhex> i've been a professional linux systems manager for 8 years, and i use nano :D
<ali1234> i once went to a job interview and they asked me "vi or emacs?"
<ali1234> and i said "nano"
<davmor2> directhex: that's cause nano rocks
<bigcalm> directhex: sounds like you're introducing yourself at an AA meeting
<davmor2> directhex: plus it sounds like an episode of mork and mindy when you say it twice :D
<mungojerry> daubers, the 800-900MB/s was against how many disks?
<mungojerry> ali1234, did you get the job?
<daubers> mungojerry: 16
<mungojerry> i grew up on solaris, so vi all the way
<mungojerry> daubers, thanks
<mungojerry> what's the SAN/NAS?
<daubers> mungojerry: Something I designed/built :) Was a xeon based nas with an areca card in it
<ali1234> mungojerry: no
<gord> i grew up on a zx spectrum, so uh... zx basic interperator all the way?
<davmor2> gord: I bet you are really glad that there is that spectrum emulator then :D
<gord> wouldn't get any work done without it!
<dutchie> daubers: happy birthday (if facebook isn't lying)
<directhex> who would do that? just go on the internet and post lies?
<daubers> dutchie: Ta
<daubers> directhex: Everyone eva?
<MartijnVdS> daubers: lies? what are those?
<daubers> MartijnVdS: According to various governments, facts.
<MartijnVdS> ah ok, that's good then
<hoover> hi folks
<davmor2> hey hoover
<christel> happy daubers day \o/
<MartijnVdS> is it daubers day?
 * davmor2 congratulates daubers on making it another year
<MartijnVdS> congratifications! :)
<daubers> ta
 * popey waves to hoover 
<hoover> hey popey
<hoover> thanks for your support mate ;-)
<popey> np
<hoover> I hope all goes well tonight. I would have expected 12.04 to work well on such a relatively recent machine, but who knows
<hoover> one thing I noted is that the gpu fans run at full speed with the latest nvidia binaries, so I hope it's possible to downgrade to an earlier version
<hoover> (unless the bug's been fixed in the newest drivers, of course)
<mungojerry> hoover, what version of nvidia driver you on?
<popey> chaps..
<popey> Quadro NVS 290/PCI/SSE2 if someone has that card...
<hoover> 195.xx ATM
<popey> and they have the 173 nvidia binary driver..
<hoover> 12.04.1 lts? ;-)
<popey> hmmm
 * bigcalm wibbles back into the office
<mungojerry> i seem to have 304.43 nvidia driver version
<hoover> yep I ended up with 195.xx by trial and error, seeing which one would not show the 100% fan speed problem
<hoover> I think the newest one was 295.xx or thereabouts back then
<mungojerry> hoover, which card you have?
<diplo> popey: Is their a way to find out what package a meta? package installs like mail-server^ ?
<mungojerry> i am using a PPA to get the newer one on 12.04
<hoover> hey biggie
<hoover> mungojerry: and 8800GT
<bigcalm> Afternoon hoovie
<mungojerry> hoover, 304.43 is supported for 8800gt http://www.nvidia.com/object/linux-display-ia32-304.43-driver.html
<hoover> mungojerry: thanks
<mungojerry> as mentioned , i'm getting it from a PPA on 12.04, but it's been stable for me, and newer is generally better for nvidia drivers
<hoover> I'd use the latest drivers if the fan problem has been fixed. I guess I'll find out tonight.
<popey> diplo, section: metapackages
<popey> alan@deep-thought:~$ apt-cache show ubuntu-desktop | grep Section
<popey> Section: metapackages
<diplo> ta
<Laney> apt-get install foo^ installs a task
<Laney> tasksel --list-tasks
<diplo> I just wanted to see what packages the task installed
<diplo> Or whether I should just install manually
<jussi> AlanBell: you about at the moment?
<hoover> ok folks laters all
<Goshawk> hi
<Goshawk> I could use some help trying to sort out a problem with an external hd, can anyone help?
<BigRedS> Goshawk: we wont know until you tell us what the problem is :)
<Goshawk> ok, long story but basically i installed ubuntu on to an eternal hd by accident and i need the data that is on it. I ran a recovery program and can find all the data (mp3s etc) but i cant do anything with it because its locked, ubuntu is telling me i dont have permission to use it. So the question is how do i get ubuntu off the ex-hd without loosing all of the other stuff?
<jacobw> run as root
<BigRedS> just to be clear, the recovery program has made it such that you can see all these files in a normal file browser?
<Goshawk> yes, but all the files have a padlock sign on them
<_serial_> chown it
<_serial_> them even
<jacobw> run as root is less change :)
<Goshawk> how do i do that?
<jussi> jacobw: less change, more danger :P
<_serial_> sudo chown -R username:username /path/to/files/*
<MartijnVdS> â« I ain't afraid of no root!
<jacobw> yes, you're right, it would be safer to chown them to be readable to your user only.
<jussi> MartijnVdS: welcome to windows...
<Goshawk> is there a way to just uninstall ubuntu from the hd?
<_serial_> run gparted and remove the partition, you can do that from live cd/dvd/usb or install it on your system
<_serial_> remember to backup though
<BigRedS> that will delete everything in the partition, though
<_serial_> does the task though?
<jacobw> yes, but i think it would be much better to recover and verify the 'lost' data first
<Goshawk> for sure
<_serial_> true but i did say backup :)
<jacobw> Ok, so find the path of one of the files that you can see in the file browser, and test using `chown youruser. /path/to/file` to make it accessible to your user
<BigRedS> there's no way, given a volume with a Ubuntu install and some other stuff on it to simply remove allthe Ubuntu bits and leave the other stuff
<BigRedS> That took forever to actually be sent...
<Goshawk> ok, working on it now, thanks for the help
<AlanBell> o/ jussi
<davmor2> jussi: that's administrator though right
<Goshawk> Can anyone tell how to change the root permissions?
<diplo> chown user:user file
<diplo> with sudo
<diplo> so for me it would be : sudo chown andy: file.txt or something
<diplo> if you don't add a second argument after the : it will use the same name for the group
<Goshawk> awesome, thanks for that
<diplo> If you want to do a directory and all it's file inside you can do sudo chown -R andy: dirname/
<Goshawk> ah, ok cheers :)
<bigcalm> Goshawk: that was for ownership, did you want to change permissions? Two different things
<diplo> So it is, I got a bit mized up from above i think :/
<Goshawk> im recovering lost data from an ex-hd and i just need to be able to move it around and rename the folder etc
<diplo> Owning the files should be fine then
<Goshawk> yeah, seems to be working
<bigcalm> Goodo :) Best to check that's what you wanted though
<diplo> Very much so
<Goshawk> def
<BigRedS> I've a mac with OSX and a Boot Camped Windows 7 on it. Is there a sane way to get Ubuntu in there?
<BigRedS> where sane means I can give this back to the owner and never have to see it again :)
<MartijnVdS> ask popey :)
<SuperMatt> BigRedS: it's sane, and possible, you need to resize the disks, install refit, and when you install ubuntu, make sure you point the boot loader to the devier that has / on it
<SuperMatt> look up mactel for more info
<SuperMatt> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MactelSupportTeam/AppleIntelInstallation
<SuperMatt> that's it!
<SuperMatt> right there
<BigRedS> aha, cheers SuperMatt!
 * MartijnVdS plays with svg and javascript
<MartijnVdS> it seems to be working :)
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: must be broken then, nothing is meant to work right first time
<MartijnVdS> well I've been trying all afternoon
<MartijnVdS> and it only started to work an hour ago
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: then you're doing it right keep up the good work :D
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: I now have a map (downloaded from OSM as SVG), and put some (also SVG) icons on it
<MartijnVdS> that I can blink red or green based on "fping" results
<MartijnVdS> (getting closer to the Jurassic Park "park map" display! ;))
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: you really need help ;)
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: you didn't say the magic word!
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: Don't worry I made a call, the men in white coats are on their way with a tight fitting jacket that fastens at the back just for you, they have a nice comfy padded room for you :D
<MartijnVdS> oooh padded room!
<MartijnVdS> I'll be safe from the velociraptors there
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: well at least until the tear through the wall
<MartijnVdS> I wonder how I could make this more generic
<MartijnVdS> the whole ping/map thing
<MartijnVdS> all I need is some js, a small script that fpings the hosts and returns the result in json
<MartijnVdS> (which I have now)
<MartijnVdS> but adding new markers to the map is hardness :(
<diplo> evening all
<MartijnVdS> hi diplo
<diplo> Right, finish work on web stuff.. come home onto a private web job
 * diplo thought I'd stopped doing these things
<diplo> :)
<pinky-> Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Albert Einstein Quote
<diplo> Ones work, others for a charity
<diplo> So not sure how I feel :D
<MartijnVdS> woo.. RIPE is down to its last v4 block
<MartijnVdS> its last /10 even
<marsilainen> hi all, anyone got any idea how long before 'ubuntu for android' will become available?
<diplo> Hmm a start of a theme, learning it as I go along :D
<diplo> http://pap.olpid.co.uk/
<diplo> marsilainen: I believe it's still in testing/R&D faze, works on a Moto Atrix if you have one
<diplo> afaik no dates set
<marsilainen> ok, thanks, interesting
<wol> d
<brobostigon> good night everyone,sleep eell.
<MartijnVdS> http://i.imgur.com/Ox5iN.jpeg
<popey> hah MartijnVdS
<popey> ali1234, drumoff needs friendly URLs turned on
<popey> http://drumoff.tv/?page_id=8 is fugly
<popey> http://drumoff.tv/?page_id=6 should be /rules
<popey> http://drumoff.tv/?page_id=4 /about etc
<Goshawk_> Anyone good with sound cards?
<MartijnVdS> !ask
<lubotu3> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<Goshawk_> ok, how do i find out the make and model of the sound card? and where do i get the drivers?
<stuphi> lspci?
<MartijnVdS> Goshawk_: it should just work
<MartijnVdS> Goshawk_: check /proc/asound/cards
<Goshawk_> 'command not found'
<MartijnVdS> Goshawk_: cat /proc/asound/cards
<Goshawk_> nice, cheers for that
#ubuntu-uk 2012-09-06
<AlanBell> it is too early
<pinky-> or late
<pinky-> depends on your view
<AlanBell> my view is from a train near Woking
<diplo> Morning all
<AlanBell> morning
<diplo> Still doing the games AlanBell ?
<AlanBell> yeah, fencing today
<diplo> :)
<diplo> #Enjoying it ?
<AlanBell> wheelchairs + swords is a good combination
<diplo> heh
<MartijnVdS> weren't those called chariots?
<dwatkins> good morning;
<pinky-> full commitment and no breaks!
<MartijnVdS> or brakes
<pinky-> oh yeah. too early
 * MartijnVdS is done with the SVG + Javascript network monitor
<MartijnVdS> it shows where the devices are on a map downloaded from OSM, and makes them red if they're unreachable :)
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :D
<MartijnVdS> \o
<bigcalm_laptop> Good morning peeps :)
<pinky-> Top of the Morn!
<pinky-> everybody got coffee?
<diplo> tea!
<diplo> :)
<diplo> 2nd or 3rd cup already :)
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> bigcalm_laptop: lo you muppet
<pinky-> wow on the news they just said Hamilton is leaving Mclaren and moving to Mercedes next season
<pinky-> not exactly ubuntu but I had to mention it
<pinky-> McLaren driver Lewis Hamilton to 'replace Michael Schumacher' at Mercedes => damn they must of offered him a lot of money seeing he is McLarens leading driver
<MartijnVdS> pinky-: nah, Button is much better :)
<pinky-> damn I'm in shock, hence I spoke
<diplo> pinky-: Not been comfirmed though as of uyesterday
<diplo> has it been updated ? It was just rumour mill yesterday
<pinky-> http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/mclaren-driver-lewis-hamilton-to-replace-michael-schumacher-at-mercedes-16207459.html
<pinky-> posted 12 mins ago
<diplo> is set to end his association with McLaren and move to Mercedes, it was claimed by former team boss Eddie Jordan today.
<diplo> Read more: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/mclaren-driver-lewis-hamilton-to-replace-michael-schumacher-at-mercedes-16207459.html#ixzz25g0VSyPS
<diplo> bah
<diplo> nah still the same 'claimed' by Eddie Jordan
<pinky-> Nor is there official word that Schumacher will retire, although F1 boss Bernie Ecclestone hinted as much live on air last Sunday. <= but he did say it, I watched it live
<pinky-> I guess it's all true
<pinky-> oh well new news to me so hence shock factor
<pinky-> oh yeah I see now, it's the same story from yesterdays edition of The Daily Mail
<pinky-> seems I'm slow
<pinky-> more coffee needed!
<pinky-> more tea vicar?
<Goshawk> Is there anyway of converting a .doc file to a .docx file?
<MartijnVdS> MS WOrd
<Goshawk> without using MS Word?
<JohnRobert> word up
<MartijnVdS> Upload to Google Docs, "Download as docx"?
<MartijnVdS> Or the same, but LibreOffice
<JohnRobert> lol my gf got mad at me the other day because I hadn't installed word on my laptop
<JohnRobert> because libreoffice wasn't rendering some cruddy word doc right
<MartijnVdS> this is why I switched to GDocs
<MartijnVdS> Everyone sees the same document!
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MartijnVdS> \o brobostigonman
<brobostigon> o/ MartijnVdS
<JohnRobert> it didn't render in gdocs properly either
<JohnRobert> I said it was rediculous that they emailed a registration form in word doc format
<MartijnVdS> Ooh, external source
<JohnRobert> turns out 'normal' people think word comes with windows or something
<MartijnVdS> sometimes it does.. or Wordpad, or MS Works
<MartijnVdS> however, modern versions of Word know how to make PDF!
<JohnRobert> yeah, well that's the problem, she had office starter on her laptop
<JohnRobert> not sure how that's not antitrust etc..
<JohnRobert> still not quite sure how ms managed to get away with bundling IE
<JohnRobert> sure they were fined, but it's still there X years later..
<diplo> Because of the browser choice icon on the desktop that is there from fresh install
<JohnRobert> heh
<JohnRobert> I don't recall seeing that on my win7 laptop
<JohnRobert> maybe I just don't remember
<pinky-> I had the browser choice icon on my freash win 7 install and I only clicked for firefox.. but when I look at my machine I have both 32bit and 64bit version of IE installed
<MartijnVdS> you can still install Chrome or Firefox and make it the default
<MartijnVdS> and remove the IE icons
<pinky-> yeah I have
<pinky-> I'm sick and tired of Apples Bonjour.exe keeps reapearing on my windows box even though I have removed it umteen times
<JohnRobert> heh
<JohnRobert> itunes
<pinky-> no
<JohnRobert> I've been listening to the steve jobs biography book
<JohnRobert> turns out he was a right jerk
<pinky-> maybe quicktime
<JohnRobert> clever, but horrible
<JohnRobert> most of the time
<MartijnVdS> pinky-: it's part of the "service discovery" stuff, network things
<MartijnVdS> Ubuntu speaks the protocol too!
<pinky-> I just hate Apple with a passion and don't want it on my machine:)
<MartijnVdS> don't install quicktime then
<pinky-> true
<pinky-> made me go look..
<pinky-> and I cannot remember why it was first installed.. you've made me ponder
<pinky-> I'm a space cadet that never sleeps.. it doesn't help
<MartijnVdS> PARANOIA
<JohnRobert> it'll destroya
 * popey tickles JohnRobert 
<diplo> pinky-: Media Player Classic used to do quicktime from memory, so could use that instead of quicktime
<pinky-> yeah on windows i always install k-lite codecs and use Media Player Classic as default
<JohnRobert> who has .qt files any more?
<diplo> Nope, but to play stuff on trailers.apple it needs it i think
<pinky-> i have a dvb-s2 saterlite card and I'm wondering if it was for the original software??
<pinky-> I just can't think
 * MartijnVdS uses szap-s2 for the DVB-S2 card :)
<MartijnVdS> \o/ Ubuntu
<pinky-> anyways Quicktime is gone**
 * diplo uses xbmc on ubuntu and a addon that does trailers.apple and don't have the faintest idea how it plays and don't care :)
<MartijnVdS> diplo: pixie dust
<MartijnVdS> diplo: from captive pixies
<diplo> :p
<JohnRobert> wonder if I can find my pgp cert
<pinky-> and satellite* yeah (slight typo) and it gave me an itch I just had to scratch
<pinky-> don't you just hate it when pixie dust gets in all the hard to reach places
<pinky-> back crack n sack
<JohnRobert> :/
<dwatkins> I wish the pixies in my television worked harder, it takes ages to boot it up.
<mgdm> the idea of a TV or a car 'booting up' still makes me go o_O
<MartijnVdS> is that your rage face?
<mgdm> No, conventionally it means something like 'errr'
<dwatkins> mgdm: I agree, it takes about a minute, I grew up having to wait only about 10 seconds for the CRT to warm up.
<dwatkins> o.O is how I demonstrate that I'm raising an eyebrow
<gord> my tv has a "fast boot" option. as far as i can tell, it just disables some stupid animation at the start
<gord> why have the animation?!
<dwatkins> haha
<MartijnVdS> Mine is actually quite fast
<MartijnVdS> faster than my old one anyway
<dwatkins> Mine (Sony Bravia) has various apps, including lovefilm and some DLNC thing, so I can appreciate it might take a moment to completely initialise.
<MartijnVdS> 5-10 seconds and I get "Access denied", then 3 more seconds for the CI module to boot and start decrypting DVB data
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<dwatkins> That reminds me, I should find out how many watts mine draws.
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: That part boots in the background on mine.. if I use the "smart" stuff immediately it tells me to wait
<MartijnVdS> but if I watch TV for a few minutes, and THEN do the "Smart TV" bits, it's fast
<dwatkins> yep
<dwatkins> My first computer booted up in the time it took for it to go beee-beep! (BBC Micro) ;)
<MartijnVdS> I still remember all the boot sounds our XT made
<MartijnVdS> and its printer
<MartijnVdS> and its floppy drives
<MartijnVdS> and I could hear which program from config.sys/autoexec.bat was loading by the sound the hard disk made
<dwatkins> Apparently you can tell what speed a modem is handshaking at from the sound it makes.
<MartijnVdS> you can
<dwatkins> Not a skill I ever mastered, perhaps I get out too much ;)
<pinky-> which reminds me of old titles like the phreakers handbook and jolly rogers cookbook
<mgdm> can anyone whistle precisely 2600Hz? :-)
<bigcalm_laptop> I miss the jolly roger's cook book
<pinky-> to become the operator?
<pinky-> 2600Hz?
<mgdm> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phreaking#2600_hertz
<mgdm> it's not the one I was thining off, actually
<bigcalm_laptop> There was a whistle in a cereal box that did the tone
<mgdm> Oh, wait, no, it is :-)
<mgdm> bigcalm_laptop: yeah, Captain Crunch :)
<mgdm> see also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2600_Hz
<pinky-> yup
<bigcalm_laptop> :)
<pinky-> I had an Amiga for about 14 years, went through all the versions one by one.. was an awesome system
<pinky-> I used to love my Amiga
<pinky-> bbs's and modem.. ahh that was the day;)
<pinky-> the good old days
<MartijnVdS> Good.. time to go clean the car
<MartijnVdS> Good thing it's so tiny :)
<pinky-> DirOpus was small too yet very powerful
<pinky-> anyone remember?
<MartijnVdS> mine's a Smart
<pinky-> I've spent lots of time on eFnet and a newbie on freenode and I was just looking t he channel bans list and I noticed the top entry is $a:PerfM and I just wonder what t means?
<pinky-> it*
<MartijnVdS> it's probably some special command for the irc server
<MartijnVdS> "the person authenticated as PerfM"?
<MartijnVdS> "Anyone NOT authenticated, but named PerfM"?
<MartijnVdS> something like that
<MartijnVdS> christel will know
<pinky-> ah ok thanks, was new to me
<pinky-> there's no Chanserv, Nickserv or Memoserv on Efnet, everybody runs eggdrop
<christel> pretty much what MartijnVdS said, the account "PerfM" is banned for whatever reason
<pinky-> ok thanks
<pinky-> it had me puzzled
<pinky-> this is just trivial chat but 2 things that I notice very different on here compared to Efnet is when you /whois somebody here is you cannot see the other channels they are idle in, only the shared channel, and lots of people here list thier real names. Efnet you get to see other channels and no-body gives real name.
<pinky-> all a bit strange to me atm
<The_Fred> hello
<JohnRobert> hi
<czajkowski> Laney: christel AlanBell are you all still coming on Saturday to a UGJ if there is one happening in London
<Laney> I cannot find a reasonably priced way to get to london
<czajkowski> ok
<Laney> any ideas?
<davmor2> Laney by foot it's free?
<Laney> I don't think I'd stay for Saturday even if I did come though
<czajkowski> bike :)
<Laney> davmor2: yeah, the taxpayer would foot the bill for the replacement feet :-)
 * Laney checks natex / megabus
<Laney> 50 quid on the train with railcard seems unresonable to me
<christel> czajkowski: yes maam! i suspect alarmbell would too as iirc he said yesterday that he didnt have any plans for the weekend (presumably kept it free for jamming!)
<czajkowski> christel: ok
<christel> (though that might have changed since so it might be wise to double check, i just tend to talk on everyones behalf because it is fun!)
<czajkowski> christel: can you reply to the mail I sent around that makes 4 then plus me = 5
<czajkowski> so I'll come in for sure
<czajkowski> just dont want to go in if there are only going to be no shows
<christel> ooh 2sex
<Laney> 38.20 for a coach leaving at 05:40
 * Laney â¦
<gord> right clicking pages in firefox and going to inspect element -> 3d view is my new favourite thing to do
<czajkowski> gord: I worry about you at times
<gord> but its so cool
<gord> if someone asks me to do something, i can set it up to 3d view then say "this is unix, i know this!"
<JohnRobert> loool
<JohnRobert> is it like jurrasic park?!
<JohnRobert> :p
<MartijnVdS> Jurassic park AGAIN? :)
<JohnRobert> lol it's awesome
<JohnRobert> heh
<JohnRobert> never knew that existed
 * MartijnVdS built a "Jurassic Park" view (the "fences" one) of a network yesterday :)
<MartijnVdS> projected on a map
<MartijnVdS> and the network devices go red when they're down
<JohnRobert> lolll
<JohnRobert> too much free time
<MartijnVdS> no!
<MartijnVdS> It's for a large camping in a forest with a wifi net
<MartijnVdS> When they get complaints, they want to see if anything is wrong with the network in that area :)
<gord> i wonder if i could put a small radio source on my cat and make a jurassic park map that tracks her.... then buy a dinosaur costume for a cat
<MartijnVdS> gord: and a car ride with celeb voice-overs?
<biomorph> Hi everybody....
<biomorph> I have a problem with the libreoffice PPA repository for Lucid.  It is trying to upgrade libexttextcat-data, but that breaks libexttextcat0
<biomorph> Anybody else seen this - got a fix?
 * bigcalm flops
<davmor2> bigcalm: you got home okay then :)
<bigcalm> Where am I?
<davmor2> oh dear
<bigcalm> More traffic than I had expected
<czajkowski> AlanBell: ping
<czajkowski> christel: what time do ye get to London on Saturday at ?
<christel> what time does it start? :)
<MartijnVdS> insane o'clock
<pinky-> meds time
<czajkowski> christel: I dunno
<czajkowski> working that bit out now
<czajkowski> 10/10:30
<davmor2> czajkowski: that might be a better place to start then :D
<Azelphur> Found this last night and thought it was amusing, UK police are really proactive http://www.splicd.com/c_ZBlMM7qlI/2410/2420 :D
<pinky-> lol, short but sweet
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> step 1) get tuned up high subaru, step 2) park it up and wait for the criminals to come past
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: sounds like a plan only a real policeman could come up with :)
<Azelphur> indeed :p
<stilofromfr> Hi guys I need help converting an .xcf animation made with gimp to edit it as a video introduction ( so i need it in avi)Help pls ) Regards
<Azelphur> I like how they make it all dramatic too, "has a tactic for intercepting criminals" -> park up and wait
<Azelphur> xD
<Azelphur> stilofromfr: not sure about the GIMP side of it, can you save it as a sequence of images?
<stilofromfr> It is saved as .xcf afaik let me double check
<MartijnVdS> (here they just park their cars everywhere or drive like maniacs, and then claim they have "exemptions" for that.. and while they might have, it's not the best way to get respect :))
<Azelphur> you can't convert from .xcf to anything without gimp since xcf is gimps format afaik
<MartijnVdS> you can save the layers (= frames) as separate files
<MartijnVdS> or animated GIF 8-)
<stilofromfr> Yes , my goal is to get an avi , gimp allow me to convert in lots of format and gif but I'm afraid I will loose a lot of quality, my animation isnt that hard so maybe some other soft could fix , I just need to print a logo then "presents" and then another logo"
<stilofromfr> I can save layers as separate files certainly , what is your point?I have like 60 frames so far
<MartijnVdS> stilofromfr: gimp should be able to save it as a directory full of .png or something like that
<MartijnVdS> stilofromfr: then you can use ffmpeg to put those together as avi, m4v, etc.
<MartijnVdS> or "avconv" as it's called now
<gord> i know its technically some really old meoldy, but the local ice-cream van goes around blaring out "who ate all the pies"
<stilofromfr> ohright thanks Im gonna try that now , is ffmpeg gui ?
<MartijnVdS> gord: ours uses "Popeye the sailor man"
<MartijnVdS> stilofromfr: ffmpeg is command-line
<MartijnVdS> stilofromfr: you just say "here are the frames, I want this number of frames per second. Go!"
<stilofromfr> okay so I may have to come back for help If I get stuck , thanks !
<bigcalm> gord: knees up mother brown?
<stilofromfr> also I would need to time the appearane of each titles but I think I will jsut include more frame to not make it harder ?
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: you see you mispronounced that, it's popey the sailor man surely
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: popey the silly man
<stilofromfr> MartijnVds Can you enlighten me about saving as separate frames please?
<stilofromfr> MartijnVds: Can you enlighten me about saving as separate frames please?
<MartijnVdS> stilofromfr: maybe some gimp scripting?
<MartijnVdS> http://registry.gimp.org/node/25394
<stilofromfr> I m checking , but I guess it ask when i'm saving , but it depends in which format I save it , for exemple if i save as png , it will ask to flatten or merge the visble layers of the image
<stilofromfr> Thanks , im gonna be a complete noob but never used a script in gimp
<AlanBell> o/ czajkowski
<MartijnVdS> neither have I :)
<stilofromfr> Ill come back if i have trouble thanks
<czajkowski> AlanBell: what time are you coming on saturday at
<AlanBell> um, not sure
<gord> bigcalm, certainly not what i hear ;)
<AlanBell> will get back to you later on that
<czajkowski> AlanBell: cool trying to see if we have enough numbers to go throug
<czajkowski> as dont want to come in for a day for just me and 2 people tbh
<AlanBell> even if one is me?
<czajkowski> AlanBell: you plus at least 2 and I have 2 people also confirmed
<AlanBell> pub afterwards?
<AlanBell> last paralympics shift tomorrow
<czajkowski> AlanBell: not for me
<stilofromfr> > (script-fu-export-layers run-mode image drawable dirname string) Error: eval: unbound variable: run-mode  Hi again the gimp script I launched doesnt seems toi work
<MartijnVdS> maybe the script is not for your version of gimp
<MartijnVdS> try asking on the gimp channel?
<stilofromfr> Yes
<stilofromfr> thx
<stilofromfr> can you tell me the adresse please?
<stilofromfr>  thx again
<MartijnVdS> http://www.gimp.org/irc.html
<MartijnVdS> !pm
<lubotu3> Please ask your questions in the channel so that other people can help you, benefit from your questions and answers, and ensure that you're not getting bad advice. Please note that some people find it rude to be sent a PM without being asked for permission to do so first.
<MartijnVdS> stilofromfr: ^
<stilofromfr> sry
<stilofromfr> Okay I have ffmpg and even downloaded a gui but obviously failed as I created 81 .avi files out of my png ahah any guidance via cli please , also how can i publicly pm as you do please
 * popey scrolls up
<MartijnVdS> stilofromfr: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2829113/ffmpeg-create-a-video-from-images
<MartijnVdS> stilofromfr: google is your friend
<stilofromfr> Yes , I shouldnt have bothered that long thxagain
<popey> i use mencoder for that
<MartijnVdS> that still exists? :)
<popey> mencoder "mf:///srv/webcam/archive/$YYYY/$MM/$DD/$HOUR/*.jpg" -mf fps=25 -o $vid -ovc lavc -lavcopts vcodec=msmpeg4v2:vbitrate=4800
<popey> like that
<stilofromfr> yes?actually the link is quite hard to follow so if something easier come up
<popey> which combines webcam images
 * Laney wibbles
<Laney> czajkowski: AlanBell: Are the logistics sorted for the jam tomorrow?
<czajkowski> Laney: it's not on tomrorow
<czajkowski> only Saturday
<Laney> hmm
<czajkowski> I'm not planning on going into the office tomorrow
<czajkowski> and you're staff so you can go in anways :-)
<Laney> Je comprends. Je suis prÃ©occupÃ© par la chambre.
<Laney> ok, saturday might be better anyway
<BigRedS> Ah, I did just wonder who else would be coming along
<christel> czajkowski: did you settle on a Time? :)
<BigRedS> 10:30 - 5:30
<BigRedS> according to her email
<christel> ah goodoo! 10:30 is better than 10! since i have to leave super early! :P
<Azelphur> I fixed up an ancient laptop for the local autistic society, It's a really old single core 1.5ghz with 256MB ram, I put Debian on it and added a wifi pcmcia card, got chromium (no flash) and libreoffice, anyone got any suggestions? :D
<diplo> Better to have gone for abiword etc as they are less heavy ?
<AlanBell> https://plus.google.com/u/0/109175303602657131317/posts/YiCmWzUZFyP
<AlanBell> we got a postcard \o/
<AlanBell> davmor2: ^^
<BigRedS> Azelphur: it'd depend on what they're going to do with it, but LO sounds like a good way to have them wait for a week to open a document
<Azelphur> diplo: abiword seems to have less features / support than libre, and libre runs ok on it
<Azelphur> unless I'm wrong on that, in which case I can switch
<Azelphur> they'd probably want it to open the newer .doc formats and stuff which I think abiword isn't compat with
<Azelphur> also abiword is word only, what about spreadsheets n stuff?
<diplo> gcalc
<diplo> ?
 * Azelphur shrugs
<Azelphur> and presentation :P
<diplo> Pushing my knoledge now, don't do any :)
<Azelphur> hehe me either, but I guess this is the sort of thing they are going to be expecting
<Azelphur> it doesn't really have a use case, it was chucked in a cupboard for a number of years as broken
<BigRedS> I'd have thought they'd miss in-browser flash before missing the means to create presentations or spreadsheets
<Azelphur> BigRedS: true, but not like a laptop of that age is gonna cope with flash, I set youtube up for html5
<Azelphur> any flash games or anything are just gonna be a disappointment and possibly cause it to lock up
<dutchie> AlanBell: nice :D
<AlanBell> yeah, nice moose christel :)
<christel> thanks! i like moose
<MartijnVdS> https://metacpan.org/module/Moose !
<BigRedS> Azelphur: yeah, but lots of people aren't aware of the problems of a "laptop of that age". This is the big problem with giving away ancient hardware
<Azelphur> indeed
<BigRedS> it's cool and that when it's your home server or some dev box that you play with every so often, but there's a really good reason nobdy's bought one for six years
<Azelphur> I didn't give it away, I made it work when it would barely boot and added wifi *shrug*
<BigRedS> yeah, I've just become really jaded and tell them it's not worth the effort now :)
<Azelphur> yea usually I do
<Azelphur> but charity + I owe them = effort
<jacobw> evening
<davmor2> AlanBell: very nice did it say on the text side to my bestest pals in the whole widest world?
<AlanBell> https://plus.google.com/u/0/109175303602657131317/posts/YiCmWzUZFyP
<AlanBell> nope
<AlanBell> but you were specifically mentioned
<MartijnVdS> thanks for the card, christel :)
<MartijnVdS> though the stamp is the wrong way up
<Azelphur> yay for newegg sales, just got me a Â£40 120GB Vertex 3 SSD :P
<MartijnVdS> noice
<davmor2> christel: That's right blame me :D
<davmor2> AlanBell: hahaha
 * Azelphur has a guy who ships things to him from USA \o/
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: that's very useful
<davmor2> christel: thanks it's a really nice card :D
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: indeed, one of the perks of hanging out in the bitcoin trading circles :D
 * Azelphur can get things from anywhere
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: there are commercial services that do it :)
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: but they cost monies
<Azelphur> yea
<Azelphur> my bitcoin guy generally takes the rebate as a fee
<davmor2> anyway guys I was only responding to AlanBell email about the postcard now I'm off again night all :)
<MartijnVdS> I guess I could pressu^Wtalk someone here into forwarding a "We only ship to the UK" package here if I ever needed to :)
<shauno> that always irks me.  I don't see any difference between shipping to northern ireland & the republic.  but still they turn me away
<MartijnVdS> shauno: Amazon doesn't let me order some (mostly electronic) things
<shauno> yup, ditto
<MartijnVdS> Probably because of the plug or something.. but even batteries!
<MartijnVdS> this is Europe people.. one market etc.
<shauno> nah, we're on the same voltage/plugs/etc, and they won't ship things here either
<MartijnVdS> I heard rumours of an amazon.nl opening up soon
<MartijnVdS> that would rock
<shauno> there's quite an odd list of things they won't ship to RoI.  blank CDs/DVDs are on it
<MartijnVdS> (finally, competition for bol.com)
<The_Fred> hey folks
<MartijnVdS> shipping blank CDs to .nl would get them in trouble with the Dutch copyright police
<MartijnVdS> (there's a levy on empty discs that has to be paid by the seller(!))
<shauno> that's probably very relevant :/
<shauno> "Blank media items, such as blank CDs, DVDs and MP3 players"
<MartijnVdS> yes
<MartijnVdS> those
<The_Fred> theres a few cd players,etc, arounnow that have a usb port - maybe cds could be replaced?
<MartijnVdS> USB sticks count too :(
<MartijnVdS> Stupid Â© police
<The_Fred> well...thats sucks
<MartijnVdS> they're even trying to extend it to HARD DISKS
<shauno> oh, and light bulbs, of course
<The_Fred> thats insane
<MartijnVdS> and have you cough up â¬lots/gbyte
<MartijnVdS> abolish IP law.
<MartijnVdS> that's my stance :)
<The_Fred> just wait for some hack-a-day article or instructable about how to make your own HDD- that'll have tied in a knot
<shauno> that's a tough one.  I think it fundamentally has to exist.  but it's really quite broken at the moment
<shauno> and taxing storage space to support outdated business models is simply barmy
<MartijnVdS> shauno: I think you'd be surprised how well it works without
<MartijnVdS> same as road signs.. there's a town in NL that abolished road signs.. and traffic accidents etc. went DOWN
<The_Fred> that makes sense - folks had to concentrate
<MartijnVdS> ttp://educatie.ntr.nl/beeldbank/clip/t20091117_hverkeer01 :)
<MartijnVdS> h+
<shauno> abolishing IP law gets funky though.  it's not all roses.  things like not being able to modify my wrtg54g because the GPL would be unenforceable
<MartijnVdS> true
<MartijnVdS> Minimizing it might be better then
<The_Fred> anyone know how to make a hardcoded directory loop?
<MartijnVdS> a what?
<The_Fred> say i have a directory /home/me/stuff ...
<The_Fred> when i go there i want it to jump to /home/stuff
<The_Fred> any ideas?
<MartijnVdS> a symlink!
<The_Fred> thanks - thats the one
<The_Fred> how are they made?
<MartijnVdS> ln -s /home/stuff /home/me/stuff
<The_Fred> brilliant - thanks MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> see 'man ln' for what it actually does
<The_Fred> oooo - so many options :)
<C-S-B> Hello guys, any reason I am getting 'unity is marked for removal ...but is on blacklist' when trying to upgrade to 12.10 from 12.04?
#ubuntu-uk 2012-09-07
<pinky-> saying 'Good Morning All!' to be the first;)
<AlanBell> morning all
 * AlanBell is om a train
<MartijnVdS> again, already? :)
<AlanBell> last shift today
<daubers> Morning
<MartijnVdS> \o daubers
 * daubers starts work :(
<MartijnVdS> daubers: Again & again & again & again..  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMy6X5cQul8 !
<christel> morning lovelies
<MartijnVdS> \o christel
<christel> hellooooo my favourite dutch persone!
<christel> -e
<MartijnVdS> christel: did the mailman come yet? :)
<christel> not yet! but he never comes early(!)
<MartijnVdS> does he always ring twice?
<christel> haha
<christel> my postman doesn't like me i think, he doesn't ring even if i am in, he just leaves parcels and stuff for me at random places -- sometimes in the porch, sometimes he wraps them in giant plastic royal mail bags and hides them in my shrubs/bushes!
<christel> on the rare occasion that we cross paths he tends to ask "when are you planning to stop ordering so much stuff" :(
<MartijnVdS> ooh, parcel hide & seek
<christel> i think he has concluded i am a shopoholic -- i merely feel i must make sure he doesn't end up out of a job!
<MartijnVdS> Mine knows my name.. even when I ran into him at the post office, and he's always happy :)
<christel> :D
<christel> before i moved i had a wonderful postman
<christel> i'd lost my card (debit card) and i was frantically searching the house for it, just about to give up and call the bank tohave it cancelled when i find my card in the porch, wrapped in a royal mail thingie with a note saying "spotted this in town, figured there couldn't be two people with this name! love, postie xx" (yes he actually signed it postie, xx)
<MartijnVdS> haha :)
<MartijnVdS> brilliant
<christel> it made me very happy so the next day i left him a bottle of whisky on my doorstep to say thanks
<christel> :)
<bigcalm> Good (early) morning peeps :)
<daubers> christel: Surely the answer to "when are you planning to stop ordering so much stuff" is "When I don't have such a wonderful postman"
<christel> daubers: ahahaha
<christel> "i only order stuff so that i get to see you" STALK STALK STAK :D:D
<christel> i like it!
<jacobw> lol
<daubers> christel: Or use the response "After you come in for a coffee *wink*"
<daubers> Although that might get awkward....
<christel> daubers: hahaha
<bigcalm> I had my new router for less than an hour yesterday and managed to brick it. I intentionally bought a model that was meant to be unbrickable :(
<christel> well done!
<bigcalm> I should get a t-shirt with "I void warranties" on it
<bigcalm> Thank you :)
<popey> bigcalm, what model?
<bigcalm> WNDR3800
<popey> morning all
<bigcalm> Hi popey
<popey> heh, i have the 3700
<popey> three in fact
<bigcalm> Yep, I took that advice and looked to see if there was a newer version
<popey> wanna buy one of mine off me? :)
<bigcalm> popey: did you have _any_ problems with openwrt?
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> I just spent 90ish quid on this one, I'd like it to work :)
<popey> i had one problem yesterday, the AP dropped off the network so turned it off
 * popey turns it back on
<JamesTait> Happy Friday, folks! :-D
<hoover> morning folks
<davmor2> Morning all you funky people
 * bigcalm does the funky gibbon
<diplo> morning all
<hoover> morning diplo
<gord> no funky gibbioning. its banned.
<JohnRobert> do do do the funky gibbon
<brobostigon> good mornign everyone.
<mungojerry> good news that rpi rev2 is made in wales :D
<brobostigon> :)
<MartijnVdS> it's made from whales?
<brobostigon> lol
<directhex> you're telling me that the dragon 32 is no longer the welshest home computer ever? :(
<JohnRobert> whelshest
<mungojerry> i met the worlds most welsh lady yesterday, proper gavin and stacey. then the phoen rang and she picked it up and her voice was completely different
<TheOpenSourcerer> A bunch of us went to Swansea last weekend for a weekend of Golf and drinking and general merryment.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Man - di dwe meet some Welsh stereotypes - especially the Gavin & Stacy types.
<TheOpenSourcerer> WIND street on a saturday night was like those places you see on TV - Loads of incredibly drunk youth (many in next to no clothes) all falling about.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Was good natured on the whole mind you.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Peeps were very friendly.
<diplo> And the ladies are rather nice looking I found :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Some are - some are not.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Many should most definitely have been wearing more clothes.
<diplo> heh, I had my kids so only saw the day time girlies and was quite impressed!
<christel> what is a "garden party" and what do you wear to one?
<christel> or is it just a posh way of saying "bbq"? :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> christel: It is a party in a garden.
<daubers> TheOpenSourcerer: Wind street is commonly known as Wine street
<TheOpenSourcerer> As to clothes - try a dress and a hat
<christel> "garden party" puts me in mind of those dos the queen has, for which people wear Hats!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hat's are quite common for Garden parties.
<christel> and i have to attend a "garden party" this afternoon (one of my client's is throwing one)
<daubers> christel: people don't wear hats, One wears ones best
<christel> oh dear! i dont own a hat! do you think i could fashion a fascinator out of old computer parts?
<TheOpenSourcerer> sorry - an abberant apostrophe slipped in there.
<christel> oops clients*
<christel> thankee
<gord> tape monitor to head, have monitor display picture of hat. problem solved
<christel> hahaha
<brobostigon> lol
<MartijnVdS> pragmatic :)
<christel> i shall hire you as my fashion advisor
<christel> :D
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<gord> i solve problems, its what i do
<MartijnVdS> I wonder how I'm going to attach wires to that TINY TINY soldering point on my TINY TINY WR703N
<daubers> MartijnVdS: With one of these http://www.somersetsolders.com/product.php/646/282/heavy_duty_550w_soldering_iron_ab3198 ?
<MartijnVdS> daubers: .. yes
<mungojerry> MartijnVdS, what are you doing with it?
<MartijnVdS> mungojerry: adding a 1wire temperature sensor
<mungojerry> then what?
<MartijnVdS> mungojerry: and a tiny script to expose its current value over http
<mungojerry> using it as a weather station?
<MartijnVdS> so collectd can collect it :)
<mungojerry> or env monitor
<MartijnVdS> inside :)
<mungojerry> soudns like you want an rpi
<MartijnVdS> I already have the WR703n :)
<MartijnVdS> and doesn't the RPi have ethernet/USB problems?
<mungojerry> does it?
<MartijnVdS> https://plus.google.com/100403777541206648979/posts/eVrbMTL51C7
<MartijnVdS> well http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/12/08/24/2228251/serious-problems-with-usb-and-ethernet-on-the-raspberry-pi really
<BigRedS> allegedly a firmware update cured them
<MartijnVdS> it has?
<MartijnVdS> .. some say :)
<BigRedS> well, that's the thing... :)
<BigRedS> I want to believe it, but all the good things about RPi seem to come from crazy zealots who'd not mention any bad things anyway
<MartijnVdS> fanbois
<mungojerry> is the usb issue being worked on?
<BigRedS> there's a USB issue too?
<BigRedS> Man, all I want one for is to serve data over Ethernet from a USB disk...
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: see the /. link
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: $22 < Â£35 :)
<BigRedS> ah yeah, I heard about the power
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: and the TP-Link (WR703N) has an USB port as well :)
<BigRedS> I find it really hard to be surprised that a system powered by a USB socket goes on to put out less-than-maximum power on its USB sockets.
<BigRedS> feels like it's just playing inside the rules of thermodynamics, really :)
<MartijnVdS> well, you should power it with an 1A-capable supply
<MartijnVdS> and use a powered hub on the other end
<MartijnVdS> that way, you'll always have enough power left over
<MartijnVdS> but people think a tiny 500mA wall adapter is enough
<MartijnVdS> and then want to power their 200mA wifi dongles _as well_ as the pi from that
<MartijnVdS> and then things break
 * popey tries to think of a reason to have a rpi in a car
<BigRedS> yeah, that's what I thought tht problem was when I first saw it, I think that's why I dismissed it :)
<MartijnVdS> popey: xbmc for the kids
<popey> heh, good call!
<MartijnVdS> popey: audio player thingy (GPIOs for buttons on the steering wheel)
<BigRedS> popey: I've plans for an automagic podcast downloader that downloads whenever it's parked within WiFi
<BigRedS> Not the sort of plans I'm actually going to do anything about, mind
<popey> heh
<Laney> czajkowski: can you put me on The List for tomorrow please?
<czajkowski> sure
<Laney> cheers
<Laney> I'll probably be there earlier than you mind
<czajkowski> yeah but everyone has to meet in the reception area so I cna bring you all up in one go
<czajkowski> swipe access
<Laney> speaking to #bluefin about it
<Laney> failing that xnox can sort me out ;-)
 * Laney puts the slow cooker on
<czajkowski> Laney: also remind xnox he needs to reply also
<czajkowski> betwen irc and pms and email want to make sure I have everyone
<pinky-> omg I just saw an advert on tv for Christmas
<JohnRobert> yeah I'd quite like to get a christmas
<pinky-> double portion
<pinky-> but if you buy it now, maybe a bit moldy in 3 months time
<SuperMatt> bit confused why I don't have whois in quantal..
<SuperMatt> or indeed in precise
<SuperMatt> seems a bit mental to have to install it
<gord> why?
<SuperMatt> well, its such a tiny, very useful tool
<gord> for what you specificly do, not really for a desktop os
<SuperMatt> I guess
<gord> i love vim, think it should be installed by default, no one listens to me either ;)
<SuperMatt> I guess I've had it in previous installs, I kinda expected to see it in my current install
<The_Fred> hello
<bigcalm> What have I missed today?
<The_Fred> i was wondering the same thing..
<The_Fred> Terry nutkins has passed on
<bigcalm> Oh no :(
<The_Fred> yea :(
 * kvarley is now in love with Unity and he never thought it would happen.
<The_Fred> the gover'ment is giving a big tax break to oil production in the north sea
<The_Fred> and then i got to depressed to read any more news
<bootlkhtg> AlanBell, Hi there  , Saw your postcard on google Plus : What an excellent way to promote your business ..... way cool !
<MartijnVdS> bootlkhtg: but.. it's christel's postcard :)
<MartijnVdS> bootlkhtg: to AlanBell (and the rest of us)
<bootlkhtg> O)H Ok, Well who's-ever it is ... I thought it was smashing !
<hoover> cheers all, have a nice weekend
<christel> bootlkhtg: haha it was my "HELLO #ubuntu-uk" card :D
<christel> i figured since AlanBell is "Mr. UK" he'd be the appropriate recipient
<christel> (soon to be competing in mr. universe i've heard)
<TheOpenSourcerer> orly?
<TheOpenSourcerer> ;-)
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: competing with you
<christel> also on the subject of POST -- MartijnVdS's KILO of dutch yummy things for us farnham-ites to share has just arrived at my doorstep!
<bootlkhtg> christel, A cyber-crush , I detect ?
<MartijnVdS> christel: \o/
<TheOpenSourcerer> He sits opposite me (when he's at work that is)
<MartijnVdS> christel: that's VERY quick
<christel> MartijnVdS: yes! i am impressed :D
<MartijnVdS> christel: they knew it was being track&traced :)
<MartijnVdS> christel: also, poidh ;)
<christel> TheOpenSourcerer: i shall bring dutch delights(!?) and come have coffee @ your office soon (well, when AlanBell decides to stop not going to work!)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hmmm - My idea of Dutch delights may not be the same as yours ;-)
<christel> hahaha
<christel> not even the same district i think... :P
<MartijnVdS> christel: Take pictures, convince the alans :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Can you smoke them?
<christel> well, we could try
<christel> but i think they were meant for eating
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oooh cackes!
<TheOpenSourcerer> cakes
<bootlkhtg> Can I have some cake plz ... I a little peckish !
<bootlkhtg> **I'm
<bootlkhtg> I can only  give free-hugs in return thou ... good trade ?
 * TheOpenSourcerer just wandered into Farnham, & had a wrap and a cold drink in the Park. Followed by an Ice Cream. nom nom
<christel> tis a nice day
<christel> i shall shortly head farnham-wards for this silly garden party
<christel> but because i am dreadfully shy and it will be full of strange people i shall go via the pub
<christel> :D
<bigcalm> It's a lovely day indeed. Perfect for being in the office
<bootlkhtg> TheOpenSourcerer, Was it a whippy (#99) or a raspberry ripple ?
<christel> for some dutch courage to stick with the dutch theme
<TheOpenSourcerer> A Magnum Infinity (or something like that)
<bootlkhtg> Yeah mint's the best !
<MartijnVdS> ooh
<MartijnVdS> I have http://www.loveicecream.com/nl_nl/products/festini/festini/74/default.aspx
<bootlkhtg> ...Raspberry, Mint we'll be talking about milkshakes next ... or am I thinkin' Linux subconcously all the time ?>
<mungojerry> more like pimms
<The_Fred> pimms linux? is that for snobs?
<The_Fred> :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> hmm - if I have a tree of code some of it currently symlinked to a different dir, can I copy the data from the symlinked place into the target so I can then break the symlink?
<The_Fred> TheOpenSourcerer, yes
<The_Fred> TheOpenSourcerer, as long as the new destination is not on the synlink'd tree
<TheOpenSourcerer> give us a cluebat then The_Fred
<The_Fred> *symlinked
<TheOpenSourcerer> ah OK.
<bootlkhtg> The first edition of the "Gimp" is out if anyone want to copy and paste the following into their browsers :: magnet:?xt=urn:btih:0B7767D2F224585DBED98F2807E401ECFD564F42&dn=GIMP%2bMagazine%2bIssue%2b1.pdf&tr=udp%3a//tracker.openbittorrent.com%3a80
<bootlkhtg> It's creative commons anyway !
<TheOpenSourcerer> I'll just need to create some tem dires and copy the stuff in then rename them once remove symlink. I was hoping to avoid that.
<MartijnVdS> use hard links next time :)
<The_Fred> odd - i was facing the same problem last night - then i found a batch file renamer which solved my issue :)
<The_Fred> TheOpenSourcerer,  cluebat..... i lke that..
<MartijnVdS> uhr
<MartijnVdS> The_Fred: rename, comes with perl (= comes with linux, basically), uses regexes to rename files
<The_Fred> MartijnVdS, i used pyRenamer because i was short on time
<MartijnVdS> but
<MartijnVdS> that's not in the default install!
<The_Fred> nope
<bootlkhtg> christel, Just wondering, but have you spoken to Fjorgynn on the #twil (freenode) #channel, (thisweekinlinux.tv)  ... he's from Norway ...
<MartijnVdS> bootlkhtg: All Norwegians have talked to all other Norwegians, didn't you know?
<jacobw> fully meshed norwgians :o
<MartijnVdS> first few weeks after birth are a bit hectic.. then it calms down :)
<jacobw> lol
<bootlkhtg> MartijnVdS, No I didn't  .. a kind of web 4.0 Norwegian brain as stated on page #105 of Robert David's Steele's -The Open-source Everything Manifesto  .... mmm   interesting
<bootlkhtg> Where is everybody going to be on Software freedom day ? http://www.softwarefreedomday.org/en/sfd
<czajkowski> right one last shout out
<czajkowski> anyone else coming to London for UGJ tomorrow
<czajkowski> speak now before I send in the list
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod just cause I haven't
<BigRedS> Me!
<SuperMatt> ou!#
<SuperMatt> You!
<SuperMatt> don't know what happened there
<BigRedS> But I emailed the list, so I guess I'm on your list already
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: "YUO!"
<AlanBell> afternoon all
<brobostigon> afternoonings AlanBell
 * AlanBell ponders beer
<brobostigon> yummy. :)
<AlanBell> or milkshake
<brobostigon> also yummy :)
<JohnRobert> tonight i'm tackling the m25 anti-clockwise
<JohnRobert> anyone know what my chances are on a friday evening?
<JohnRobert> cambs > southampton @ 5:30
<JohnRobert> a1, m25, m3
<gord> oh moterways. not guns then
<JohnRobert> ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> JohnRobert: Ha Ha Ha
<TheOpenSourcerer> M25->M3 will be pants - either way round the M25 you decide to go
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hi AlanBell - All done with the Olympics now?
<SuperMatt> Couple of weeks ago I did two trips on the m25. Both of them had an additional 2 hours added to them
<awilkins> Urrgh, Southampton
 * awilkins crosses himself against Craig David
<BigRedS> I've only ever once been caught in traffic that I wasn't helping cause
<BigRedS> and that was on boxing day morning
<BigRedS> er, traffic on the M25
<BigRedS> but, yes, that's largely by just not going on it in the rush hour. Where in cambs are you going from?
<BigRedS> actually, I think I came to the conclusion that there's no better way, just need to not do it when everyone else is
 * popey pokes gord with https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/1047449
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1047449 in Unity "Thinkpad previous/next keys trigger HUD" [Undecided,New]
<popey> please to be confirmotronning?
 * TheOpenSourcerer just got an invite to an exclusive party in December with a "free bar" :-D :-D :-D
<AlanBell> theopensourcerer yes, all done
<TheOpenSourcerer> Great - di dyou have lots of fun?
<TheOpenSourcerer> I hope you were a cheery Gamesmaker
<TheOpenSourcerer> And not a grumpy one
<AlanBell> yes, it was fun, better than expected
<TheOpenSourcerer> You have been PAT tested today.
<AlanBell> I tried to be grumpy but it didn't work
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<AlanBell> up for a pint shortly?
<diplo> Yes!
<diplo> :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: who would you be asking?
<bigcalm> 2 weeks until the Happy Hour :D
<TheOpenSourcerer> And what is the occasion?
<AlanBell> well anyone in the farn* area really
 * TheOpenSourcerer is slaving over another vtiger CRM project in eclipse right now and is getting bored.
<AlanBell> the occasipn is I want a pint
<gord> popey, can't confirm, but my buttons don't seem to do anything at all
<TheOpenSourcerer> Suggest a venue then.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I won't be able to be out too late as I need to get home, have dinner, then go out for lots of pints :-D as it's Friday.
<popey> hmm
<popey> oooh!
<popey> pints!?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Good grief - wake up popey
<MartijnVdS> and Dutch candy, if you can find christel :)
<bigcalm> Heh
<gord> i have new strange and exotic japanese candy, but its all for me
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: Pepernoten, kruidnoten and chocolate-covered kruidnoten!
<bigcalm> ...
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: they're yummies!
<bigcalm> Ok
<AlanBell> well I am at Farnborough main right now
<popey> oh!
<AlanBell> shepherd and flock is good in the sun
<AlanBell> open to other suggestions
<popey> can't get away right now
<popey> got calls
<popey> nvm :(
<AlanBell> or the mulberry
 * AlanBell heads for farnham for a start
<awilkins> NetBeans : yuck
<diplo> It's ok awilkins, a little heavy
<awilkins> I guess I'm just used to Eclipse
<diplo> I couldn't get used to that if I'm honest, don't any of them the most though, they all have something I'd like in the other :/
 * TheOpenSourcerer wonders where AlanBell has headed to.
 * TheOpenSourcerer knows where he is. he has appeard here1
<Mez> AlanBell: been told by davmor2 to let you know that on the Quantal login screen, if you try to use the on screen keyboard - it won't let you enter anything in the password field (thus rendering the on screen keyboard useless)
<bigcalm> I've offered Hayley a meal at one of our local balti houses or a night in a local pub. About the same cost as each other. Wonder what it shall be
<davmor2> bigcalm: chinese
<bigcalm> davmor2: not really an option was it?
<Mez> bigcalm: I think that was the point.
<Mez> (It's kinda amusing to sit here listening to davmor2 giggling to himself at the other side of the room)
<bigcalm> Mez: I experience it in person every 2 weeks
<Mez> My condolences.
<Laney> steak'n'chips
<bigcalm> The night in the local pub would be for drinks only. The food there is darn expensive
<popey> Mez, confirmed, thats broken
<popey> Mez, filed bug 1047500 for you
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1047500 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "on screen keyboard doesn't work for password field" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1047500
<popey> davmor2, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-sound/+bug/1047473
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1047473 in indicator-sound (Ubuntu) "Rhythmbox play button has an odd square around it." [Undecided,New]
<popey> was that ATI card?
<JamesTait> Have a great weekend, everyone!
<davmor2> popey Intel
<popey> ta
<popey> i cant reproduce it, can't see it in fact
<popey> can you take a picture?
<davmor2> No tried it just flickers the box up.  But the big problem was neither recorder would grab it
<davmor2> I''ll try kazam with a different format tomorrow
<popey> ok
<AlanBell> Mez: right, thanks it was pretty grim in Precise too, I will check in Quantal as well
<AlanBell> oh, popey already did, cool
<popey> yeah, i filed the same bug against precise :)
<gingerling> hi
<gingerling> can someone tell me the command to move a file as root from documents to /etc/modprobe.d/modprobe.conf
<gingerling> please :)
<popey> gingerling, what are you trying to do?
<gingerling> move a config file i wrote into the right place as root
<Aivaras> Guys any one have issues with nvidia card while using only ext display?
<gingerling> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1806897&page=12
<gingerling> very last post on this
<gingerling> sudo cp -a
<gingerling> ish?
<gingerling> done it
<gingerling> not done it
<gingerling> balls
<popey> i wouldn't copy over the top of it
<popey> I'd edit the file in-situ
<gingerling> there is no file atm
<gingerling> its a new file
<popey> ah ok
<gingerling> so far we have tried sudo cp -a /anne/documents/NAME /etc/modprobe.d/modprobe.conf
<gingerling> not working
<gingerling> also tried home/anne/documents/NAME
<gingerling> didnt work
<gingerling> trying capital letter
<Aivaras> Is there any fancy command then using nano to not make new file but directory too? like 'nano <something here>  /new_dir/newfile' ?
<gingerling> done it
<gingerling> !! :)
<mgdm> Aivaras: probably not. mkdir -p /new_dir && nano /new_dir/newfile
<Laney> get-iplayer++
<alexcockell> From the looks of things on the mailing lists etc - I haven't accepted the LTS upgrade offer in Update Manager - looks as though I'm right to do so?
<alexcockell> I'm on a Lenovo Ideapad S12 - Intel Atom and nVidia ION 1...
<Laney> why?
<Aivaras> I'm planing to buy new laptop, should I look for intel card or nvidia? Looking from drivers point of view.
<popey> depends what you want to use the laptop for Aivaras
<Aivaras> I now have problem that if I use only ext screen drivers keep crashing randomly with nvidia card. In linux and in windows. It sucks...
<Aivaras> popey: it is not about special needs, intel 4000 would be enouth powerfull for me.
<popey> I have only bought intel based machines recently
<Aivaras> And no problems at all?
<popey> not recently
<popey> I have a desktop and laptop, both only intel
<popey> i have one nvidia machine which i only use for testing
<Aivaras> I have nvidia desktop and laptop :D
<alexcockell> Reckon I've held off with the upgrade as I'm nto quite ready to be flung into the world of Unity...
#ubuntu-uk 2012-09-08
<SpaceTravel_> hello
<SpaceTravel_> hi
<AlanBell> morning SpaceTravel_
<SpaceTravel_> good morning Alan
<SpaceTravel_> thanks for answering
<SpaceTravel_> you have a few minutes to help me in a ubuntu 12.04 problem/
<AlanBell> possibly, depends what the problem is
<AlanBell> and whether I decide to go have some breakfast
<SpaceTravel_> i just tried to install Ubuntu 12.04 on a laptop and after it installed it worked extremly slow
<SpaceTravel_> ok, go have breakfast and leave an answer when you can
<SpaceTravel_> thx
<SpaceTravel_> eat well !
<AlanBell> how slow?
<AlanBell> and what are you comparing it to?
<directhex> what specifically is very slow?
<SpaceTravel_> after a fresh install this happends
<SpaceTravel_> for the first minute after it starts up , works ok
<SpaceTravel_> then runs progressively slow !
<AlanBell> in terms of screen redraws, disk access, computation of things?
<SpaceTravel_> yes !
<SpaceTravel_> if i want to open firefox for example. takes a whole minute
<SpaceTravel_> and laptop is a HP HDX 18
<directhex> can you fire up a terminal?
<directhex> then run "top"
<SpaceTravel_> yes i could, but that would also open very late
<directhex> it'll list running apps, in cpu-usage order
<SpaceTravel_> thing is i now have a win version on it .....since 12.04 was not usable
<directhex> so you can't be helped
 * AlanBell goes for breakfast o/
<SpaceTravel_> but any ideas what might cause this lag ?
<directhex> some ideas, sure
<directhex> e.g. runaway tracker process
<SpaceTravel_> yhanks
 * popey has breakfast \o/
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<Mez> so, how many people @ Jam in London?
<Laney> 2 so far!
<Mez> who's that then ?
<davmor2> Laney: join #ubuntu-jam then
<Laney> why?
<davmor2> Laney: because we are Jammin', Jammin', Jammin', Jammin with Ubuntu today.....
 * czajkowski waves from UGJ London 
<MartijnVdS> And tonight: Dinosaurs on a spaceship!
<MartijnVdS> \o czajkowski
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod, infact Laney prod czajkowski please :)
<czajkowski> >:(
<AlanBell> will there be G+ hangout from jam central?
<Laney> hmm
<Laney> AlanBell: aren't you coming?
 * Laney had a go on a boris bike
<Laney> davmor2: she went down to collect people
<MartijnVdS> Laney: they're quite useful :)
<MartijnVdS> I've used one too last time I was there
<AlanBell> Laney: no, domestic stuff means I can't get away
<brobostigon> good morning eveyrone.
<czajkowski> and we have more arriving
 * davmor2 waves at christel, czajkowski and Laney and london
<Mez> http://apt-cache.lan:3142
<Mez> ignore above - me being an idiot
<takeontom> thanks mez :)
<Laney> no christel
<czajkowski> no christel and no AlanBell
<Laney> SLACKERS
<davmor2> Laney: so who is there now
<MartijnVdS> just Laney
<davmor2> AlanBell: you in London yet?
<MartijnVdS> and his imagination
<davmor2> czajkowski: If christel shows up give her a hug for the postcard from me please :)
<czajkowski> wilko
<popey> czajkowski, you upgrading to 12.10?
<czajkowski> yarp
<popey> if you fancy testing something bleeding edge, try adding the unity-team staging ppa and upgrade :)
<popey> and we have some tests you can run
<popey> if you apt-get source unity
<popey> then look in the unity folder for "manual tests" there's a bunch of text files describing some tests which should work
<czajkowski> REBOOT
<czajkowski> popey: got details so we can do that
<czajkowski> popey: got the links to the ppa
<popey> czajkowski, sudo add-apt-repository ppa:unity-team/staging
<popey> czajkowski, sudo apt-get update
<popey> czajkowski, sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
<popey> in the event it breaks:-
<popey> sudo apt-get install ppa-purge
<czajkowski> heh
<popey> sudo ppa-purge ppa:unity-team/staging
<AlanBell> popey: I will give that a go later, just doing 700MB of updates to other stuffs
<popey> i think balloons has put some test cases on the qa tracker too
<AlanBell> cool, I think I will try an eyes free install on hardware too
<davmor2> AlanBell: you at London now?
<czajkowski> Mez: how are things down with you
<AlanBell> davmor2: nope, I got stuck at home
<Mez> czajkowski: In coventry?
<davmor2> AlanBell: Shame on you
<davmor2> czajkowski: Mez got sent to coventry I joined voluntarily :D
<Mez> davmor2: says a lot more about you than it does me
<czajkowski> maybe we can do a hangout later on
<czajkowski> gord: we're discussing out disline for the alt key on hud
<Mez> czajkowski: does that include how it triggers when you don't want it to ?
<AlanBell> unity is lots faster after I upgraded
<AlanBell> and I disabled the super-w zoom to window size key in enhanced zoom to get back the default unity binding for that
<Laney> zoom zoom
<czajkowski> Mez: I rarely use it tbh
<popey> i use it when in gimp
<AlanBell> hud still steals alt from virtualbox :(
<popey> way easier than using menus
<AlanBell> I got the hang of setting up gimp in single window mode, that is really nice, I thought I was going to hate it but I don't
 * AlanBell adds the unity staging ppa
 * AlanBell loses all window decorations
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1192447/
 * AlanBell purges the ppa
<davmor2> Laney: I hate you, now I have the Mazda advert in my head
 * AlanBell haz window decorations
<AlanBell> popey: how do I file a bug about that?
 * popey looks
<davmor2> you can haz windowz decorationz
<popey> you can file a bug from the command line
<popey> you don't need a GUI
<popey> so I would get to the state of broken-ness and "ubuntu-bug compiz"
<AlanBell> sure, but against ppa?
<popey> yes
<davmor2> you need to install w3m though
<popey> no
<popey> you do not
<AlanBell> it is a perfectly workable gui, just no decorations
<popey> ok, so in tty0, export DISPLAY=:0.0  then ubuntu-bug compiz
<popey> it will capture that you're using bleeding edge compiz
 * AlanBell upgrades again
<AlanBell> oooh E: Type âainâ is not known on line 3 in source list /etc/apt/sources.list.d/unity-team-staging-quantal.list
<davmor2> popey: so how do you login to LP to report the bug without a browser then?
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1192457/ bad ppa purge, bad
<popey> davmor2, you have a browser
<popey> firefox
<popey> ppa-purge comments out the ppa which is annoying when you come to re-add it
<czajkowski> good start: no package named `libjbig0' is installed, cannot configure
<czajkowski> could not install libjbig0
<popey> czajkowski, when doing what?
<czajkowski> no package named `libtiff5' is installed, cannot configure
<davmor2> popey:  oh sorry terminal rather than tty
<czajkowski> doing the upgrade
<popey> davmor2, yes, i know, hence "export DISPLAY=:0.0"
<popey> which will trigger firefox
<popey> czajkowski, how you doing the upgrade?
<czajkowski> alt f2 update manager-d
<czajkowski> clicked on the upgade to 12.10
<davmor2> popey: installing w3m is way easier though :D
<czajkowski> and there is a nice little gui
<popey> no, it isnt, ff will remember password etc
<bigcalm> Ahoy peeps :)
<davmor2> popey: I remember my passwords too though  I have to type them in a million times a day  :D
<popey> ok, I am not going to argue about this anymore davmor2
<davmor2> bigcalm: why you not at the GBJ in Coventry :D
<popey> bug 1025408
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1025408 in jbigkit (Ubuntu) "package libjbig0 2.0-2ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: no package named `libjbig0' is installed, cannot configure" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1025408
<bigcalm> davmor2: um, life
<bigcalm> davmor2: why are you on irc?
<davmor2> GBJ in COVENTRY D'oh!!!!
<Mez> The clue was in the previous message
<AlanBell> This is not an official Ubuntu package. Please remove any third party package and try again.
<czajkowski> hmmmm
<MartijnVdS> mmmmh!
<czajkowski> my side menu is gone
<czajkowski> as are all my borders of applications
<czajkowski> this could be funny
<popey> "side menu"?
<AlanBell> czajkowski: alt-drag to move them about
<popey> AlanBell, bah! that's not supposed to happen
<AlanBell> I have a launcher still, just no window borders, shadows, title bar
<AlanBell> alt-middle click drag to resize things czajkowski
<czajkowski> how do you middle click on a trackpad
<MartijnVdS> left+right at the same time
<bigcalm> Humm, where have all of my Bassnectar albums gone?
<MartijnVdS> The way of the dinosaur?
<AlanBell> popey: it seems to be allowing me to ubuntu-bug unity
<popey> excellent, do that
<czajkowski> BBCBDCB
<popey> czajkowski, you upgraded and have restarted?
<popey> but you had a problem with some packages not installed... sounds like your upgrade didn't finish
<AlanBell> bug 1047790
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1047790 in Unity "no window decorations after upgrading to ppa:unity-team/staging" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1047790
<popey> czajkowski, if you drop to a terminal or switch to tty0 you can "sudo dpkg --configure -a"
<popey> czajkowski, or "sudo apt-get dist-upgrade" to finish it off
<Laney> czajkowski's window manager went away
<AlanBell> UpgradeStatus: Upgraded to quantal on 2012-06-21 (78 days ago)
 * AlanBell was brave :)
<davmor2> czajkowski: before the upgrade did you ensure you had ubutnu-desktop installed?
<Laney> we're in tty1 now
<Laney> tailing dpkg.log
<davmor2> czajkowski: so who is down at the London Jam?
<AlanBell> alt-tab now works reasonably well
<popey> something else that needs testing is webapps
<AlanBell> alt-doubletab is unpredictable still but I think that is just something to unlearn
<popey> what's alt-doubletap?
<czajkowski> not used web apps
<AlanBell> last-but one window
<popey> make sure you have unity-webapps-service installed and try visiting (in chromium) news.bbc.co.uk, facebook, gmail (not apps for domains), flickr, last.fm...
<AlanBell> I used to kind of use multiple tab touches to navigate the z-index of about half a dozen active windows
<popey> should get an option to "integrate" with the desktop
<popey> also test out online apps in system-settings
<popey> and the google docs lens :)
<AlanBell> web apps is working OK for me right now, is it working in firefox now?
<popey> not yet
<popey> well, it works but we had to get approval from mozilla i think
<popey> and they dragged their heels
<AlanBell> ok, so it works in chromium and I have icons now
<popey> check the pips are accurate on the launcher
<popey> and make sure you dont have too many chromium icons when you restart webapps after locking to launcher
<AlanBell> oh I do
<AlanBell> but I am not running the staging PPA now, does that have a webapps upgrade in it?
<AlanBell> so what happens if mozilla say no? do we ship it as iceweasle?
<Guest2102> popey, can you just give those ppa's again. I'm at the global jam in london
<Laney> popey: smells
<AlanBell> Guest2102: sudo add-apt-repository ppa:unity-team/staging
<Guest2102> popey, thanks
<popey> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/09/08/%23ubuntu-uk.html
<popey> :)
<Laney> what are people supposed to be testing in this ppa?
<Laney> aha
<Laney> 08/09 12:07:36 <popey> make sure you have unity-webapps-service installed and try visiting (in chromium) news.bbc.co.uk, facebook, gmail  (not apps for domains), flickr, last.fm...
<Laney> shouldn't unity have brought that in?
<Laney> apparently it did, soz
<xnox> not facebook?
<xnox> not sorry firefox?
 * xnox ENGLISH?! DO I SPEAK IT!
<penguin42> xnox: Shh, IRC doesn't use baudot
<popey> xnox, firefox not worky worky yet
<popey> unless it has been added in the last 24 hours
<xnox> popey: what about google chrome
<popey> xnox, no, chromium
<xnox> cause chromium from the archive crashes for me =/
<popey> Laney, also, manual testing .. if you "apt-get source unity" you'll find a manual testing folder with lots of tests in txt files
<takeontom> czajkowski: you know about a problem not being able to upload attachments on launchpad?
<popey> chrome is closed proprietary product which doesn't have our crack in it
<xnox> popey: see the post from micahg asking for help maintaining chromium
<popey> i have not
<xnox> popey: so the daily ppa for chromium (stable, beta, dev channels) is borked
<xnox> popey: due to packaging problems with importing launchpad translations or something like that
<takeontom> anyone else having trouble uploading attachments to launchpad?
<Guest2102> popey, have added the ppa and installed unity-webapps-service (which was already there). I head to bbc and get no prompt to run the webapp
<davmor2> popey: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-messages/+bug/1047809 can you confirm this at all please
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1047809 in indicator-messages (Ubuntu) "Clicking on an email number/folder in the indicator does make thunderbird the forground app" [Undecided,New]
<popey> Guest2102, news.bbc.co.uk should prompt you in chromium
<popey> wonder if there's something else missing.. did you restart session?
 * popey pops out
<Guest2102> popey, yup restarted and in chromium
<Guest2102> popey, nothing happening
<Guest2102> popey, anything i need to install from that ppa
<Guest2102> ?
<czajkowski> takeontom it is working fine
<takeontom> czajkowski, yeah was an odd permissions problem on my end
<takeontom> czajkowski, odd thing was, trying to upload in firefox was resulting in nothing happening. like the upload button was totally dead
<takeontom> czajkowski, figured launchpad was broken
 * popey returns
<popey> james1, does facebook or twitter prompt you?
<popey> (after you login)
 * popey goes to make party sandwiches
<Mez>  popey so, when do we seyour banana keyboard?
<popey> dunno :)
<james1> popey, twitter gives nothing, but i have just seen that although unity-webapps-service is installed, a lot of the other webapp things in the apt cache weren't.
<james1> Do i need them all installed?
<popey> yeah, they should get pulled in
<davmor2> popey: why is the gdocs not opening apps in gdocs.  Instead I get a uneditable web page :(
<Mez> czajkowski: smallest picture of a jam session ever
<xnox> popey: we can't run webapps yet =( we need to install more and more of webapps packages.....
<xnox> it's not simply dist-upgrade
<popey> xnox, apt-cache search webapps
<popey> pastebin the result pls
<czajkowski> I'm back
<czajkowski> :)
<czajkowski> I got 5 new bugs
<czajkowski> 1 of which was a fix commited
<czajkowski> another one from 2011
<davmor2> czajkowski: only 5 you just aren't trying
<czajkowski> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/at-spi2-core/+bug/855123
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 855123 in at-spi2-core (Ubuntu) "at-spi2-registryd crashed with signal 5 in g_type_create_instance()" [Medium,Triaged]
<czajkowski> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/1047827
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1047827 in compiz (Ubuntu) "compiz crashed with SIGSEGV in ccsStringToModifiers()" [Undecided,New]
<czajkowski> https://bugs.launchpad.net/telepathy-indicator/+bug/796661
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 796661 in telepathy-indicator (Ubuntu) "telepathy-indicator crashed with SIGSEGV in g_simple_async_result_complete()" [High,Confirmed]
<czajkowski> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/1047829
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1047829 in compiz (Ubuntu) "compiz crashed with SIGSEGV in ccsStringToModifiers()" [Undecided,New]
<czajkowski> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gwibber/+bug/1047830
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1047830 in gwibber (Ubuntu) "gwibber-service crashed with SIGSEGV in g_simple_async_result_complete()" [Undecided,New]
<popey> hah, i achieved 5-a-day yesterday by assigning a load of bugs to someone else :)
<davmor2> popey: I did to
<popey> :)
<popey> did you london chaps get webapps working?
<czajkowski> nope james is gone for lunch
<popey> looks like "unity-webapps" is the one missing
<kvarley> Is it just me or is Unity more gorgeous than usual?
<czajkowski> I think he was installing stuff that was missing
<popey> "unity-webapps" will pull in what you need
<czajkowski> compiz--
<popey> just checked on my quantal desktop
<popey> heh
<czajkowski> popey: does webaps working on 12.10
<popey> yes
<popey> "unity-webapps" install that and make sure you have restarted your session and use chromium
<popey> you should be able to login to fb or twitter, and get a prompt at the top to "integrate" with the desktop
<popey> and then lock an icon to launcher for fb / twitter
<popey> and be able to alt-tab to fb
<davmor2> popey: do you happen to have a usb headset knocking about?
<czajkowski> hmm intersiting
<popey> i do davmor2
<davmor2> popey: play a track in RB, plug in your headset, audio settings set the audio to the headset. Unplug the headset reboot, plug in the headset and play a track note the audio settings still say speaker even though it is now playing from the headset :)
<popey> it doesn't switch when i first plug in
<popey> gonna have to test more later, off out
<czajkowski> popey: so to get webapps installed on 12.10 is it a ppa I need to install ?
<penguin42> wth do energy companies have such broken websites
<MartijnVdS> because working websites cost moneys
<MartijnVdS> and spending moneys is evil
<davmor2> penguin42: cause real users aren't meant to use them
<AlanBell> they just have to be functional enough that price comparison websites can scrape them
<AlanBell> then they won't dare change them unless they break the linkage
<penguin42> edf's won't take a reading, and scottish power's just won't respond at all
 * StevenR finds the British Gas website functional enough
 * penguin42 suspects they have a nasty habit of doing maintenance on their live systems
<czajkowski> Mez: many folks at your UGJ
<davmor2> czajkowski: 3 today, 4 yesterday
<czajkowski> cool
<davmor2> popey: I got this but to record in the end https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-sound/+bug/1047473 you'll need to play the video in totem though FF doesn't like it
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1047473 in indicator-sound (Ubuntu) "Rhythmbox play button has an odd square around it." [Undecided,Confirmed]
<czajkowski> bet add on in thunderbird ever.............bugmail 2.0
<czajkowski> install
<czajkowski> click on a bug in your inbox
<czajkowski> and magic
<davmor2> czajkowski: you bet on add-ons
<czajkowski> it's soo frickin handy
<czajkowski> davmor2: you down in coventry ?
<davmor2> no I'm across in coventry
<davmor2> and up from you :P
<czajkowski> want to do a hangout
<davmor2> set it up and we'll think about it :D
<czajkowski> ok
<czajkowski> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/f62d22a92ed855624be306e8ab1c83e570c5eda5?authuser=0&hl=en-GB
<czajkowski> join..............
<czajkowski> davmor2: com on
<davmor2> mez is just setting up a machine with the projector
<AlanBell> audio is a disaster
<AlanBell> all I can hear is a stream of fecks
<davmor2> no thats just czajkowski
<AlanBell> yeah, every word that isn't feck is all broken up and incomprehensible
<AlanBell> arguably that is still just czajkowski
<davmor2> AlanBell: that's cause czajkowski shouts feck and whispers everything else
<AlanBell> but I think a microphone that isn't welded to the speakers might help somewhat
<davmor2> hahahahahaha
<AlanBell> built in microphones on laptops are not very good :(
<penguin42> so google+ gives me a 'install plugin' from a non https page with a non https download to pull a .deb - that's a bit nasty
<Laney> this is painful
<Laney> 2012 eh
<AlanBell> I thought canonical peeps use hangouts all the time
 * AlanBell downloads the daily live iso zsync thingie
<davmor2> MOO!!!!!!
<AlanBell> which one is davmor2?
<davmor2> AlanBell: I do on my precise machine at home
<davmor2> AlanBell:  i'm waving
<AlanBell> I see you waving
<davmor2> AlanBell: how are the chickens?
<davmor2> czajkowski: it goes with the job
<Mez> Laney: you're seriously having some cam problems there
<davmor2> Mez: I don't know what you mean it's a great shot of czajkowski forehead
<Mez> It might be useful to have the cam and the mic on the same machine... so we don't get focused to black when you talk.
<czajkowski> I've switched mine off as machine is getting hot
<BigRedS> Should've got a macbook air...
<czajkowski> hmm not sure I've gotten these webapps thingymebobby working
<Laney> Mez: it's off
<frango> hi guys, i'm new here
<AlanBell> hi frango
<frango> i cam with a question
<frango> came*
<Laney> needs moar aircon
<frango> i looked on canonicals website for ubuntu jobs but they're all kinda high level
<frango> i was wondering if anyone knew if there were any uk based low level jobs working with ubuntu?
<penguin42> frango: Well, don't ever stop what's listed on a site stop you from submitting a CV
<frango> yeah i was looking for a proper place to send my cv
<frango> but i couldnt find anything
<frango> lots of links to IRC though :P
<davmor2> frango: you'd need to apply for something and then it is logged
<frango> so you think if i apply for any of those jobs they will just keep my CV for other positions?
<czajkowski> BigRedS: http://www.meetup.com/Openstack-London/events/77153502/
<czajkowski> Laney: http://www.meetup.com/Openstack-London/events/77153502/
<davmor2> AlanBell: prod just checking your alive as you don't seem to of move for 10 minutes :D
<czajkowski> james1: ^^^ in case you're interested
<penguin42> frango: Well there's never harm in applying to places - especially if you're honest; i.e. say what you were looking for
<frango> ok
<frango> thanks for the encouragement
<frango> does anyone here work with ubuntu?
<czajkowski> frango: some work and many use it every day
<frango> i used it on my work pc when i wasnt meant to haha and i use it on almost all of my stuff
<davmor2> czajkowski: have we lost london altogether now?
<czajkowski> yap
<davmor2> HA HAAAA!
<frango> lost london?
<frango> i hope not, i live there
<davmor2> http://t.co/LaMAGNHa
<czajkowski> james__: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accomplishments/Installing
<AlanBell> yay, I have a USB with Ubuntu on it, and a computer and a keyboard and speakers
<czajkowski> yay
 * BigRedS *nearly* has a 12.10 install to test things in
<czajkowski> *nearly*
<BigRedS> yeah, only 83Â°C too!
<davmor2> czajkowski: PROD!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<czajkowski> booo
<Mez> davmor2: do you see THIS?
<Mez> czajkowski: apparently davmor2's server is ignoring you :)
<Mez> maybe you have to hilight him ?
<davmor2> czajkowski: :P :P :P
<czajkowski> davmor2: HELLO!!
<davmor2> czajkowski: Hello what time you guys knocking off?
<czajkowski> 5:30 I think
<davmor2> czajkowski: you're a great organiser aren't you :D
<czajkowski> feck off
<AlanBell> anyone got the daily live to actually run the installer at all?
<Mez> I got yesterdays to
<AlanBell> lets try the beta1 image
 * AlanBell downloads
<xnox> Daily from today or yesterday?
<xnox> The today one should be ok.....
<xnox> it it managed to build....
<AlanBell> today
<AlanBell> yeah, but ubiquity doesn't run
<AlanBell> on hardware or virtualbox
<AlanBell> the installer encountered an unrecoverable error. A desktop session will now be run so that you may investigate the problem or try installing again.
<AlanBell> ubiquity does run from the desktop, but I can't usefully test it from there
<davmor2> Bye guys
<xnox> Hmm....
<xnox> AlanBell: thanks.
 * AlanBell copies the beta1 to an sd card
<AlanBell> beta1 works, daily doesn't
<AlanBell> well, kind of works
<AlanBell> ubiquity runs, I can't press the install button
<AlanBell> tried again and it worked, think I can get to the end of the installer without using the mouse
<AlanBell> will do a video later I think
<MartijnVdS> Hmm
<MartijnVdS> toggling "click to focus" (focus follows mouse) doesn't stick
<MartijnVdS> and it doesn't DO anything either
<MartijnVdS> in 12.10
<AlanBell> does mac os x do focus follows mouse?
<MartijnVdS> no
<MartijnVdS> but it doesn't offer the option either
<MartijnVdS> also..
<MartijnVdS> unity != macos
<AlanBell> then Ubuntu is designed not to support it :)
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<MartijnVdS> it worked. Now it doesn't
<MartijnVdS> and I can't figure out where Unity/compiz settings are
<MartijnVdS> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/1047929
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1047929 in compiz (Ubuntu) "Toggling "Click to focus" in CCSM doesn't do anything, and the setting doesn't stick" [Undecided,New]
 * MartijnVdS pokes popey 
<AlanBell> so, I need to record from webcam and audio, what do I use to do that?
<MartijnVdS> google hangout ;)
<MartijnVdS> or just youtube -- it has a "Record me" feature
<AlanBell> guvcview, thats what I wanted
<MartijnVdS> but still
<MartijnVdS> where ARE unity/compiz settings?
<MartijnVdS> there seem to be some in gconf, but I heard that's Old and Deprecated
<AlanBell> ccsm unity plugin?
<MartijnVdS> and dconf has a few, I heard that's just as deprecated
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I want to know where ccsm stores its settings
<MartijnVdS> where on disk (or in which tool)
<MartijnVdS> ah
<Laney> is there a reasonable meatspace place to buy a new PSU?
<MartijnVdS> dconf uses gsettings which is where the settings really are.. and if you find the right spot in there (/org/gnome/desktop/wm/preferences)
<MartijnVdS> you CAN set focus-follows-mouse
<MartijnVdS> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/1042041
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1042041 in compiz (Ubuntu) "1:0.9.8+bzr3319-0ubuntu1 regression: keeps setting gsettings keys to wrong values" [High,Confirmed]
<AlanBell> Laney: PC world does them
<Laney> for a reasonable price?
<AlanBell> probably not very reasonable
<AlanBell> or totenham court road
 * Laney is on t'way back already
<Laney> maplin?
<Laney> maybe i'll just order it online
<Laney> missus has prime
<AlanBell> maybe I will re-do that recording when my kids stop screaming at each other
<AlanBell> any time now they will stop screaming
<jacobw> make a point of recording them :)
<MartijnVdS> They weren't even quiet to watch DINOSAURS on a SPACESHIP!?
<Laney> someone else said that on my twitter
<Laney> dr who reference?
<MartijnVdS> Laney: That's the name (and content ;)) of the new Who episode
<Laney> i see
<Laney> i'm disinterested, except for the pond
<MartijnVdS> lots of ponds in this one
<christel> yar, queen pond \o
<christel> she's mighty cute
<MartijnVdS> Yes!
<MartijnVdS> Though I didn't mind the girl from last week either </spoiler-free-ish>
<christel> yeah she's pretty cute for a dalek ;)
<MartijnVdS> christel: and from what I've heard, we're going to see more of her around Christmas :)
<christel> indeed! wrapped in a ribbon :D
<christel> i look forward to this
<MartijnVdS> "Christmas of the Daleks", "CE-LE-BRATE! CE-LE-BRATE!!!"
<brobostigon> lol
<brobostigon> i know that feeling from somewhere.
<popey> ola
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Which of course they hold on October 31st?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: yes, because that's Dec 25
<penguin42> indeed
<MartijnVdS> eww.. "Music from a Dell"
<MartijnVdS> *changes channel*
<mikehbb> hey so i just installed ubuntu on my laptop but its slow slower then when i had windows 7 can someone help me ?
<penguin42> mikehbb: It's a bit vague; the best thing is to try and find an example of something in particular that's slower
<mikehbb> ok so like on youtube i watch a vid and when i try to change to the next vid it gets stuck and it even takes more time ti turn on
<mikehbb> when i lunch google chorme it takes sometime to load
<penguin42> mikehbb: ok, do you know what type of graphics card you have?
<mikehbb> i never had a problem with windows 7 but everybody told me ubuntu was way better and bla bla bla
<mikehbb> not rellay but with windows 7 i was not haveing a problem at all
<penguin42> mikehbb: Sure; so one thing you can try is to check whether there are any 'additional drivers' that aren't installed that might be faster for some graphics cards - erm I can't remember where that option is, somewhere under teh settings
<mikehbb> and how do i check that ?
<popey> press the big button in the top left
<popey> and type "driver" in it
<popey> click "Additional Drivers"
<mikehbb> ok it says something about a driver that is installed but not in use
<mikehbb> the driver is called modem something :(
<penguin42> yeh forget that - modem is irrelevant
<mikehbb> so then ?
<penguin42> yeh, then it's a bit more tricky to figure out - 'sluggish' takes a lot more understanding of tools and stuff to figure out
<mikehbb> so ????
<penguin42> mikehbb: I can't really suggest much for 'sluggish' I'm afraid that are easy for you to try
<mikehbb> si am going to have to buy windows 7 that is about 320 dollers
<mikehbb> so*
<popey> thats quite an extreme way to deal with the issue
<mikehbb> so can someone help me then ?
<popey> what spec is the machine?
<AlanBell> what laptop is it?
<mikehbb> hp
<penguin42> mikehbb: More details - cpu? Ram? model?
<popey> press the button in the top right and type "details"
<popey> click the result
<popey> it will tell you the spec of the machine
<popey> er
<popey> top left :D
 * popey swaps his hands over
 * penguin42 is glad that's not just me
<MartijnVdS> yours is an X220 right?
<popey> MartijnVdS, mine is, yes
<MartijnVdS> ooh, I can only select an X230
<popey> yeah, 220 is discontinued i think
<mikehbb> its has 3 gigs of ram intel cpu 2400 @ 1.83 X2
<ging> popey: does that details program run in the command line?
<popey> ging, no, but you can get that data from the command line
<mikehbb> huh?
<popey> mikehbb, ok, so core i5
<ging> popey: in a nice easy to read format like that?
<mikehbb> yes
<popey> ging, no
<popey> ging, see /proc/cpuinfo and /proc/meminfo
<popey> mikehbb, is it a stock Ubuntu install? and what version of Ubuntu is it?
<mikehbb> i just download last night and i alreay update it
<mikehbb> here something its says that it doesnt know what kind of viedo card i have
<popey> what hp model of laptop is it?
<mikehbb> nc6400
<popey> interesting, hp website suggests it has a core 2 duo..?
<mikehbb> yes sir
<popey> ah, so not a core i5
<mikehbb> nope sorry
<mikehbb> my bad
<popey> yeah, not susprised it's a bit slow
<mikehbb> but with windows 7 the newest version it was running great
<mikehbb> and its more then slow it even frezzes sometimes
<AlanBell> should be OK on that laptop, but not dramatically quick
<mikehbb> like right before i got in this chat, i was watching a youtube vid full screen then when i pressed escaped it just froze
<AlanBell> ok, but it did play a video full screen?
<mikehbb> yes it did
<mikehbb> but when i exit full screen it froze
<AlanBell> flash can be a bit crashy, that isn't a performance problem
<mikehbb> and with windows 7 that nevered happend :(
<AlanBell> adobe have basically deprecated flash now
<ali1234> core 2 duo is slow now?
<popey> it's a 6 year old laptop
<penguin42> popey: But if he's saying win7 does it OK then there is no reason for Ubuntu to be slower than it
 * hamitron even replaced his c2d over a year ago
<AlanBell> no reason to be faster either, generally performance is similar as it is doing similar stuff
<mikehbb> nope core 2 duo is not all at all this is my laptop in my desktop i have a Phenom II X6 1100T 'Black Edition' (3.3GHz, 125W, 3MB total dedicated L2 cache, 6MB L3 cache, 4000MHz HyperTransportâ¢ bus, socket AM3) and its 16 ram and it has windows 7 and i would still use my laptop so that i can use it anywhere i want i didnt see the big changes
<penguin42> you're running on my c2d - it mostly just runs irc and a bit of web browsing though; and I run MATE on it - which is fine on the hardware
<AlanBell> mikehbb: lets get some numbers, try http://www.webkit.org/perf/sunspider-0.9.1/sunspider-0.9.1/driver.html
<mikehbb> i know people that have a pentium 4 and have 256 of ram and there useing ubuntu and they say its great so
<ali1234> they must be using an old version
<popey> they may be using an older leaner version
<ali1234> like really old - 2006
<MartijnVdS> 	tx bitrate: 300.0 MBit/s MCS 15 40Mhz short GI
<MartijnVdS> woo, 5GHz
<mikehbb> so your saying that ubuntu is getting bigger in ram and spec to use?
<penguin42> mikehbb: Yes it's getting a bit chubbier in it's older age
<AlanBell> sure, it takes advantage of newer processors and graphics cards
<popey> yup
<ali1234> lol
<popey> min spec these days is 1GB RAM
<ali1234> "takes advantage"
<penguin42> mikehbb: Two things, if you're running an old machine try lubuntu or xubuntu - they use lower end desgktop environments, or try MINT (that's mostly Ubuntu with a different cover on)
<hamitron> I love the way you put it AlanBell
<hamitron> :)
<mikehbb> i have 3 gigs of ram
<czajkowski> Laney: lovely reply on the thread!
<hamitron> as software gets more "clever", it tends to need more resources sadly
<hamitron> :/
<GaryLittlemore> can anyone tell me what network this irc is on?
<penguin42> GaryLittlemore: freenode
<AlanBell> GaryLittlemore: freenode
<Laney> czajkowski: it came to me on the train
<GaryLittlemore> okay thanks all
<czajkowski> Laney: sums ot up very well
<czajkowski> *it
<ali1234> czajkowski: any news on PPAs and CoC?
<mikehbb> For upgrading]  While the minimum memory requirement for 32bit is 384 MB, a minimum of 512 MB is needed
<mikehbb> that is what the page on ubuntu says it needs
<mikehbb> so wtf
<mikehbb> ?
<ali1234> did yo install 32 bit?
<n1md4> hello.  I've recently upgraded my mythtv box, and now lightdm has switch to autologin and only as a guest session.  Any ideas?
<hamitron> have you tried running any other software on the minimum spec? it really is the bare minimum :/
<czajkowski> ali1234: it's all good
<mikehbb> http://www.webkit.org/perf/sunspider-0.9.1/sunspider-0.9.1/results.html?%7B%22v%22:%20%22sunspider-0.9.1%22,%20%223d-cube%22:%5B21,22,21,22,20,20,20,21,19,22%5D,%223d-morph%22:%5B19,19,19,19,19,19,18,20,19,20%5D,%223d-raytrace%22:%5B25,27,27,27,32,26,25,27,25,28%5D,%22access-binary-trees%22:%5B4,3,3,3,3,3,4,4,4,3%5D,%22access-fannkuch%22:%5B20,20,21,20,21,19,19,20,22,21%5D,%22access-nbody%22:%5B14,13,13,14,13,12,12,14,13,14%5D,%
<mikehbb> i got the resulats for that page someone said to try
<mikehbb> ============================================ RESULTS (means and 95% confidence intervals) -------------------------------------------- Total:                  442.0ms +/- 2.2% --------------------------------------------
<AlanBell> wow, that is quite some URL it gives you
<ali1234> it's not going to be a CPU issue
<AlanBell> ok, so 442 in total, great
<ali1234> it's going to be some hardware problem
<czajkowski> mikehbb: oi short URL or pastbin!
<ali1234> either graphics or audio
<czajkowski> ali1234: in the beginning you were either forced to accept the PPA terms of use,
<AlanBell> 591.2ms for me, but I am encoding a video at the same time
<czajkowski> or sign the Ubuntu CoC to create a PPA.
<ali1234> first thing i would try is unity 2d if it still exists
<czajkowski> A long time ago (at least 3 years), we removed that
<czajkowski> restriction that was making the PPA creation more complex than it needed
<czajkowski> to be
<ali1234> czajkowski: i tried to create a PPA a couple of months ago and the only option was to sign the CoC
<mikehbb> so?//?????????////
<AlanBell> so your laptop is faster than mine on that benchmark
<czajkowski> ali1234: I checked it wwith the devs
<czajkowski> it's fine
<czajkowski> as I think you agree to the way of a PPA
<czajkowski> I've not set one up
<ali1234> i did see that bug about it being fixed from like 2010
<AlanBell> just trying to find some actual comparatives to quantify any sluggishness
<ali1234> but i think that was just technically making it possible. i'm certain that the PPA creation system forced you to sign the CoC up to say, three months ago. (when was the app contest?)
<ali1234> and there was a discussion on the ML about dropping the CoC requirement in feb 2012, long after the bug was "fixed"
<ali1234> but the discussion was just a RFC and there was no decision made on it
<mikehbb> you see <allanbell> its not my computer its ubuntu so then how can i fix it ?
<ali1234> https://lists.launchpad.net/launchpad-dev/msg09034.html
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/673015
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 673015 in Launchpad itself "Code of Conduct requirement for PPA upload rights is unnecessary" [Low,Fix released]
<czajkowski> ali1234: it's saturday I'm not working :)
<ali1234> the bug was "fix released" nov 2010
<ali1234> well, ok, which mailing list should i direct this to?
<czajkowski> I raised it on lp-dev during the week and it was replied to
<mikehbb> ?
<AlanBell> mikehbb: well if you are playing full screen flash videos it probably isn't a graphics problem
<czajkowski> ali1234: https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-dev
<mikehbb> so then but its not only that if i click like on firefox it takes some time to open up
<AlanBell> how long?
<mikehbb> like 15 or 10 sec
<AlanBell> that doesn't sound too bad
<AlanBell> takes about 4 seconds for me but I have an SSD rather than hard disk
<mikehbb> ok it my desktop it doesnt even take half a sec
<czajkowski> ali1234: https://lists.launchpad.net/launchpad-dev/msg08934.html  is the thread
<ali1234> no, that's the one i just linked to from feb
<mikehbb> and when i had windows 7 onmy laptop the oen i am hving the problem right now it would take like 2 sec
<czajkowski> ali1234: that's the discussion......
<ali1234> yeah. the end result of the discussion, afaict, is that the requirement stays at the request of mark shuttleworth
<czajkowski> ali1234: have you read the last comment on the thread...which was sent a few days ago. please see that comment.
<ali1234> ok, found it
<mikehbb> so i guess no one can help me ?
<ali1234> czajkowski: ok, so the reply made to you is blatantly wrong. i will follow up on this, thanks.
<popey> mikehbb, I'd be interested to see what the machine is doing when you're doing some things..
<popey> running something like "top" in a terminal
<popey> or "vmstat 5" for a while
<MartijnVdS> iotop as well
<popey> see where it's bottlenecked
<mikehbb> and what is that ?
<popey> top is like system monitor in windows
<popey> shows the processes in order of cpu utilisation
<popey> also shows memory usage, swap etc
<MartijnVdS> "iotop" shows which processes are using how much I/O bandwidth
<popey> maybe open a terminal and just run top, then press "q" to quit and copy and paste it into a pastebin, and give us the link
<MartijnVdS> vmstats shows details about memory usage, every 5 seconds (that's what the 5 is for)
<popey> (rather than paste the whole thing here)
<mikehbb> so in english how do u do that ?
<popey> do which bit?
<popey> hang on, I'll make a quick youtube video for you...
<mikehbb> you must be haveing fun looking at someone stupid that doesnt know how to use ubuntu
<popey> nope
<popey> not at all
<ali1234> hmm this old problem
<ali1234> how to reply to a mailing list post from before you subscribed?
<Laney> can you get the mbox?
<Laney> or get someone who has it to bounce it to you
<ali1234> i don't know; it's on launchpad
<popey> yeah, launchpad sucks for mailing lists :(
<popey> drat, audio didnt record
<mikehbb> what happend to the vid ?
<popey> mikehbb, the audio didn't record..
<popey> ok, so what you do is this:-
<popey> 1. press CTRL+ALT+T to open a terminal
<popey> 2. in the terminal type "top" then press enter
<popey> 3. Wait for a bit, then do whatever it is that is slow/sluggish.
<popey> 4. Watch the window running top and see what is at the top of the list of the bottom section
<popey> 5. optionally pause the top display with CTRL+S, (resume it with CTRL+Q) and copy/paste the contents of the window into http://paste.ubuntu.com/ and give us the url to look at
<popey> optionally also open a terminal and run "vmstat 5"  and leave it running for a few minutes, and do something that feels slow/sluggish and do the same with that window - copy the entire contents to paste.ubuntu.com
<ali1234> does anyone here have a launchpad account and not in any teams and not signed the CoC?
<popey> yes
<ali1234> and can you make a PPA?
<popey> lemme see if i recall the password :D
<ali1234> i swear blind that i tried to make one for the app showdown and it didn't work
<ali1234> the only thing that changed on my account since then is i joined a couple of teams
<ali1234> so i may have inherited PPA permission from one of those
<popey> a damnit, can't remember the email address for an account
<popey> hmm
<ali1234> the only one that isn't an open team is trublr
<popey> czajkowski, are you able to find out the email addy for a user?
<popey> and pm it to me
<popey> hmm, this sounds more dodgy than it is :)
<ali1234> what's the launchpad test server called again?
<popey> edge.launchpad.net
<popey> and staging i think
<ali1234> ohyeah, edge. but it's synced. and staging is down
<Laney> that does sound dodgy
<popey> woohoo, found it in my email
<Laney> if someone has hidden their email address ...
<mikehbb> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1193510/
<popey> Laney, but it's me
<popey> anyway, doesn't matter, found it
<Laney> hmmmmmm
<Laney> i have an account like that actually
<popey> ok, so this is mine ali1234 https://launchpad.net/~elvis-presley
<popey> not in any groups, not signed the coc
<Laney> i have to tick this "I have read and accepted the PPA Terms of Use."
<popey> i just made a PPA, had to tick the box
<ali1234> ok. so that's new
<popey> https://launchpad.net/~elvis-presley/+archive/ppa
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<ali1234> i'm sure it wasn't possible like that 3 months ago
<brobostigon> nos da everyone, sleep well.
<MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
<brobostigon> o/ MartijnVdS
<mikehbb> There the link
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: not waiting for the national anthem? :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yes.
<ali1234> mikehbb: doesn't look like the PCU is overloaded
<ali1234> er, CPU
<ali1234> as i suspected
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i prefferred rule britannia,
<czajkowski> 22:45 < Laney> i have to tick this "I have read and accepted the PPA Terms of  Use."
<czajkowski>  EXACTLY
<czajkowski> ali1234: look francis who replied to my follow up in the PM of the LP team so he does tend to know what he's talking about
<czajkowski> ;)
<ali1234> ok. so 3 months ago, that tick box didn't exist
<ali1234> and trying to create a PPA took you to an error message "you have not signed the CoC"
<brobostigon> rule britannia, is definatly our unofficial, or my national anthem.
<mikehbb> HA i know its not my cpu or ram its ubuntu i been trying to tell u :(
<popey> mikehbb, I'm not saying it is your cpu or ram
<popey> I'm trying to help identify which process is eating the cpu/ram
<MartijnVdS> iotop might help
<MartijnVdS> if something is writing gigabytes to disk (or reading..) it will slow down the machine
<ali1234> the cpu and ram is not being eaten tho :)
<MartijnVdS> that happens :)
<ali1234> doesn't look like pulseaudio problems either
<ali1234> so main candidate is flaky graphics
<MartijnVdS> ATI prop driver?
<ali1234> perhaps you're running nouveau on a nvidia laptop chipset
<ali1234> that's a pretty good way to destroy performance
<brobostigon> in good design, I/O shouldnt affect cpu or ram directly.
<brobostigon> i think
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: in theory, you're right :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: :)
<ali1234> "if only linux was a good design"
<mikehbb> nope its intel
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: however, in theory, theory and practice are identical
<hamitron> and when was x86 a good design?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: very true,
<MartijnVdS> mikehbb: anything specific that's slow?
<MartijnVdS> mikehbb: specific web sites, plugins, etc.?
<Laney> whyever is bbc hd showing a split screen of the proms?
<MartijnVdS> Laney: 3D
<Laney> wtf
<MartijnVdS> Laney: that's how 3D looks on non-3d screens
<Laney> get it awf my telly
<brobostigon> nos da, sleep well all.
<mikehbb> youtube
<mikehbb> when i turn it on
<mikehbb> when i click on fire fox o some icon its slow
<mikehbb> nothing kompred to windows 7
<MartijnVdS> mikehbb: "some icon in firefox"?
<MartijnVdS> Which one, specifically
<mikehbb> no when i lunch firefox
<MartijnVdS> and how slow is slow
<mikehbb> but i use google chorme
<MartijnVdS> is it "a bit slower", or "unbearable, takes 5 seconds to respond to a click"
<mikehbb> it takes 5 sec to respond!
<hamitron> better than 10 at least
<MartijnVdS> mikehbb: just to start? and is it fast after it's started?
<mikehbb> no when i try to close it
<mikehbb> it does the same thing
<MartijnVdS> I don't recognise the symptoms..
<MartijnVdS> but maybe I'm not understanding your explanations correctly :)
<ali1234> mikehbb: in your log firefox is not running
<mikehbb> ok look let me make it more easy
<mikehbb> if i watch a vid on youtube on full screen when i try to close it lags and its doesnt close til after 10 sec
<MartijnVdS> how do you close it? Press ESC on the keyboard?
<popey> not a lot we can do about flash :(
<ali1234> fullscreen flash is broken on linux
<mikehbb> tss i guess ill have to buy windows 7 agian
<mikehbb> thanks anyway
<hamitron> doesn't youtube use html5?
<popey> it can
<mikehbb> got say ubuntu sucks never gonna use it agian or tell anyone to use it
<popey> great, thanks
 * StevenR wonders if there's an automated testing framework out there that could be used to do WAN fault diagnosis
<stgraber> StevenR: http://netalyzr.icsi.berkeley.edu/ might help
<StevenR> (I don't mean something like nagios - We need something that can be triggered manually to isolate the source of a problem and provide advice to our service desk on what to do next)
<stgraber> that one is a java app talking to a server in berkeley doing a variety of tests to detect buffering, window sizes, firewalling, proxying, ... kind of issues
<czajkowski> popey: you did an amount of help
<StevenR> I'm looking for something that can effectively follow a flowchart of diagnostic steps "can I ping the router? No? Can I login to the switch stack and telnet onto the router from there? Yes? Can I ping out from the router? No? Ask the site contact to power cycle the NTE. "
<StevenR> It feels like there should be a software testing framework or something that I can write the tests and flow for... and be done. :)
<popey> yeah, I've considered similar
<penguin42> StevenR: Have you looked at something like nagios?
<penguin42> StevenR: You should be able to set it up with a chain of all the things to test and I think you can have kind of a depends relationship between them
<stgraber> penguin42: well, StevenR said he didn't want something like nagios, so I guess he considered it :)
<penguin42> oh, didn't spot that
<czajkowski> popey: you on 12.10
<popey> czajkowski, I have a 12.10 machine here, yes
<StevenR> penguin42: I want to run the tests on demand (or rather, I want the servicedesk to do this, so I don't have to) ... running them all the time would place too much load on site routers
<czajkowski> popey: can you look at your power indicator when its plugged in, what does the icon look like?
<penguin42> StevenR: I wonder if something like nagios can just do an on-demand?
<popey> czajkowski, its a desktop
<czajkowski> i just want to se if yours shows that it's charging when it's plugged in
<czajkowski> mine doesnt
<czajkowski> I suspect a regression again
<czajkowski> just has the battery symbol
<StevenR> penguin42: it depends... it would need to be able to report things back to the user to say "ask the site contact to do this"
<penguin42> StevenR: Oh I see what you mean - you want kind of a flowchart following thing?
<popey> czajkowski, i can't make the icon appear on my desktop...
<popey> czajkowski, oh, i have a netbook too, one mo
<StevenR> penguin42: basically, every time we're alerted to a WAN fault, I end up getting dragged into diagnostics to tell the servicedesk what to do next
<penguin42> StevenR: Yeh
<penguin42> StevenR: How about just a webpage with a set of interconnected links ?
<StevenR> penguin42: and it's boring, and very disrupting, particularly when half the time it's "their generator's being moved again"
<StevenR> penguin42: so yeah, I want something to follow a flowchart, and then give the servicedesk some instructions on what to do next
<penguin42> StevenR: I'd say just a web page with links on it and markers so that you click one and it moves to the next part of the flowchart
<penguin42> although you want them to record each and every thing they've said/decision they've made
<popey> czajkowski, i have a charging icon
<StevenR> penguin42: that's the point - I don't want them to make any decisions
<czajkowski> popey: feck
<popey> what does yours look like?
<stgraber> czajkowski: I also see a "battery full" icon even though I'm plugged in and it's charging
<penguin42> StevenR: Well you're going to ask things like 'Is ____ on' and when they finally call you and they get all the way through the script you're going to want a summary of everything they answered as they went through including the 'not sure - we think so because ....'
<czajkowski> stgraber: ah  I see it's full also, but usually you used to see a lightening rod through it to note it was charging
<stgraber> czajkowski: I believe on 12.04 I'd have the same icon but with a power symbol on top of it to indicate that it's plugged
<czajkowski> I don't as of the upgrade this morning
<popey> i blame jbicha :0
<stgraber> right, so we're seeing the same change
<popey> i dont see the issue, but i have 301MB of updates to do
<StevenR> penguin42: not quite. Basically, using a combination of ping and telnet (which I can automate with expect), I can diagnose things right down to "this NTE has crashed. power cycle it"
<popey> lots of libgnome stuff
<StevenR> or whatever
<stgraber> I only moved to 12.10 last weekend so I never saw it look right on 12.10
<popey> interesting
<czajkowski> popey: stgraber 22:45 < Laney> i have to tick this "I have read and accepted the PPA Terms of  Use."
<czajkowski> popey: stgraber http://twitter.com/czajkowski/status/244564289355137024/photo/1
<penguin42> StevenR: Well there is dejagnu that's the testing framework used on a lot of GNU tools - it's not very pretty though
<StevenR> penguin42: I don't want the SD(servicedesk) to actually ping stuff or telnet onto routers and switches. The tool needs to do that and then advise them of what to do.
<stgraber> czajkowski: yep, same here
<czajkowski> filing bug now
<czajkowski> once I figure out which indicator to put it agains
<czajkowski> t
<penguin42> StevenR: I'd still look at Nagios - I'm fairly sure you could trigger it once to generate a summary
<Laney> power
<czajkowski> yeah
<czajkowski> doing it now
<penguin42> StevenR: Or use some of it's scripts to do most of the leg work
<czajkowski> Laney: that makes 7 :D
<Laney> gotta love that karma
<czajkowski> Laney: you have no idea how many times a week I get asked why peoples karma hasn't increased straight away
<czajkowski> people watch it like hawks
<txwikinger> Did anybody notice that the Ubuntu-uk planet does not update the feed anymore?
<Laney> apparently not
<Laney> broken by the bacon
<txwikinger> Yeah.. he always breaks stuff, isn't he?
<czajkowski> stgraber: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-power/+bug/1048041
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1048041 in indicator-power (Ubuntu) "Power icon doesn't show it is charging when it's plugged in" [Undecided,New]
<AlanBell> txwikinger: ah yes, someone spotted that the other day, popey did you see the uk planet is broken
<popey> nope
 * popey checks
<czajkowski> how does he break it ?
 * AlanBell uploads a video of the installer
<czajkowski> stgraber: please do be confirming!
<txwikinger> czajkowski: Jono uses jedi forces to break things ;-)
<MartijnVdS> nah
<MartijnVdS> just regular Jono forces ;)
<StevenR> penguin42: thanks, given me a few ideas :)
<popey> ok, planet bot is dying
<czajkowski> right I am all tested out
<czajkowski> turning in
<czajkowski> nn folks
<MartijnVdS> \o
<StevenR> stgraber: that icsi tool is cool. Not quite what I'm looking for, but close :) ... certainly its output presentation is decent :) thanks
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1193600/
<AlanBell> that is odd
<AlanBell> that feed works in a planet here
<AlanBell> http://www.planeta11y.org/testing/output/
<AlanBell> it only has stuff from 2009 in it, maybe remove andrew price from the planet.ini, see if that fixes it
<popey> txwikinger, yours barfs too
<popey> as does zrmt
<popey> i dont think its that feed
<popey> ah, hang on
<popey> its deadlocking
<popey> ubuntuuk@www:~/planet-2.0$ ps aux | grep planet | wc -l
<popey> 19
<AlanBell> oh, it can't access the cache because previous instances have it open or something
<popey> killed them all
<popey> still barfs
<AlanBell> nuke it from orbit, it is the only way to be sure
 * popey bins caches
<AlanBell> is there some kind of process or daemon for bsddb?
<popey> sorted
<popey> deleting the caches did it
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Opening Ubuntu Up To the World - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/09/06/opening-ubuntu-up-to-the-world/
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Liam Proven] On trying out operating systems in virtual machines - http://liam-on-linux.livejournal.com/29975.html
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Ralph Janke] No Upgrades from Precise Pangolin to Quantal Quetzal? - http://drupal7.txwikinger.me.uk/no-upgrades-precise-pangolin-quantal-quetzal%3F
<AlanBell> heh, I think it is fixed :)
<popey> :)
<txwikinger> cool popey
<mattt> weeee
<pinky-> plop
<mattt> pinky-: howzit?
<pinky-> hi, I'm on the night-shift and about to watch a 2 hour recording of today F1 quailifys
<pinky-> so all good - how's you?
<mattt> so so i guess
<mattt> where do you work?
<pinky-> good good
<pinky-> top secret ;)
<penguin42> he justs wants to know so he can also spend his night shift watching F1
<mattt> TESCO
<pinky-> hehe
<pinky-> I ended up working in a gas station
<mattt> ah
<pinky-> Frank Zappa
<mattt> is that scary?
<pinky-> hehe
#ubuntu-uk 2012-09-09
<erre> hello everyone
<mattt> erre: hello
<pinky-> hello erre
<pinky-> Eddie Jordon on 'Inside F1' mentioned that Schumacher maynot retire but actually Rosberg might move to McLaren. <quite interesting
<erre> how i can make a video buffer?
<mattt> pinky-: F1 *yawn*
<mattt> :P
<pinky-> ok sorry:)
<mattt> hehe
<mattt> anyway, bed
<mattt> enjoy the rest of your shift
<pinky-> bye for now and sleep well
<erre> how i can take a video of 10 sec before the trigger.. something like a buffer..
<erre> someone here in this time?
<ali1234> from a webcam?
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
<brobostigon> o/ MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> f1 again this afternoon!
<brobostigon> yes.
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: brobostigon weee ;)
<SuperEngineer> vroom vrooms
<SuperEngineer> [& howdy]
<brobostigon> hi SuperEngineer
<MartijnVdS> \o SuperEngineer
 * SuperEngineer been busy putting rhythyBox into full use
<SuperEngineer> o/
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: Ripping your CDs eh
<SuperEngineer> who... me???? that would be naughty
 * MartijnVdS has 11k songs on 'random' atm :)
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: ripping your own CDs to FLAC is not allowed now?
<MartijnVdS> or is that some weirdness in English copyright law?
 * SuperEngineer giggles
<SuperEngineer> ripping is ripping - you buy a Cd - you copy it as a backup is my theory
<MartijnVdS> aanyway, I'm in .nl and ripping your personal collection to your own disk is definitely allowed here :)
<SuperEngineer> I have also copied others peoples cds [purely as a favour to the other people - in case they use their original] ;)
<MartijnVdS> naughty naughty
 * SuperEngineer calls it "a service"
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<SuperEngineer> although [truth] I lent my sister a Muase Cd, lost mine in a car swap and got sent a copy of my sister's "backup"
<SuperEngineer> ....see off site backup theory does work ;)
<SuperEngineer> btw sub Muse for Muase
 * MartijnVdS listens to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fF_BapyZiqA
<pinky-> youtubes top 100 this is at #13 and the only track so far I've liked => http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UVNT4wvIGY
 * SuperEngineer listens to Jeff Buckley's Hallelujah... there are few that beat some voices
<Wobbo> In EOG 3.4.2 does not work, no images visible. (Ubuntu 12.04 64, AMD).
<Wobbo> Radar word, anyone?
<MartijnVdS> Wobbo: does it show you any errors if you start it on the command-line?
<Wobbo> You meen to start it threw the terminal?
<MartijnVdS> yes, please
<Wobbo> Nothing
<Wobbo> Only that i can't stop EOG now...
<MartijnVdS> it doesn't have a red "x' in the top corner?
<MartijnVdS> ctrl+c doesn't work?
<Wobbo> Yes, there is the normal X.
<popey> moo
<popey> MartijnVdS, SuperEngineer ripping CDs in the UK is illegal, yes
<ClaudeTheFascist> MartijnVdS: did you watch the match?
<MartijnVdS> à² _à²  @ ClaudeTheFascist
<MartijnVdS> popey: weirdness!
<popey> alwas has been
<ClaudeTheFascist> MartijnVdS: vs Turkey.
<MartijnVdS> ClaudeTheFascist: I don't follow most sports..
<ClaudeTheFascist> But you are Dutch.
<brobostigon> so, there are millions of people. who rip cd's with itunes or equivilant, to put on their mp3 players. wow.
<brobostigon> you do wonder why there isnt a warning on said products.
<pinky-> i wished flac s the norm
<MartijnVdS> pinky-: lots of music on bandcamp comes as FLAC
<MartijnVdS> pinky-: and lots of vinyl comes with download vouchers for FLACs
<ClaudeTheFascist> pinky-: so we can waste 400MB per 12 tracks when 99% of people can't tell the difference from a 320kbps VBR MP3, because they don't have the ears or the equipment?
<Wobbo> Ok, computer stuk.
<pinky-> oh ic
<pinky-> good point
<SuperEngineer> popey: apparently - so is theft... but looking at UK banks record on theft....   ;)
<MartijnVdS> pinky-: still, lots of good bands on bandcamp ;)
<pinky-> I have good equipment so maybe I'm on my own
<MartijnVdS> pinky-: nah you won't hear the difference either
<ClaudeTheFascist> Anybody who says they can tell the difference between a FLAC file and a ~256kbps MP3 and doesn't have expensive amps and headphones/speakers is a goddamn lying commie.
<pinky-> flac sounds "cleaner" on my system
<MartijnVdS> but storing on your PC as FLAC to later transcode to AAC/MP3 for an mp3 player will give you higher quality than transcoding mp3s to lower-res
<Wobbo> How to remove the EOG setting. Can that help?
<ClaudeTheFascist> Yeah, just like vinyl sounds "warmer".
<ClaudeTheFascist> Both are ridiculous and untrue.
<MartijnVdS> it sounds hissier :)
<pinky-> in flac sounds are sharper
<pinky-> well to me anyways
<ClaudeTheFascist> Yeah, because it's an ancient technology made obsolete 20 years ago.
<ClaudeTheFascist> We should start watching movies on VHS because the pictures look warmer.
<MartijnVdS> ClaudeTheFascist: also, gives you time to make tea while the tape rewinds
<ClaudeTheFascist> I have a servant to do that for me.
<SuperEngineer> ClaudeTheFascist: I had a nail clipper once - left the job saying too demeaning !
<SuperEngineer> [& muttering something about a cup of tea is not a working wage!]
<pinky-> I have a 140watt sub-woofer on my pc speaker setup and in flac it really whips a llama
 * SuperEngineer wonders if sucking the sound track from legally downloaded mp4 to an mp3 is also illegal... bet it is
 * SuperEngineer looks for a place to hide after being so naughty... ooo, pubs open - they'll never think of looking for me there
<AlanBell> SuperEngineer: we don't have any legal provision for format changes/backup of stuff you have purchased
<SuperEngineer> see yooz all later folks
 * SuperEngineer stops running to look at AlanBell's answer
<AlanBell> the property analogy only applies to the industry, not to consumers
<SuperEngineer> AlanBell: yuk!
<SuperEngineer> let me guess.. we don't buy the cd - only the license to use it
<AlanBell> even time shifting is a grey area, like recording the archers to tape to listen to later, or using a sky+ box
<AlanBell> you bought the CD, but not the data on it
<AlanBell> it is messy
<SuperEngineer> AlanBell: I remeber - in the days of VHS - you were counted as illegal if watched after x number of days from transmission even
<pinky-> like this weeks story about bruce willis wanted to give his itunes collection to his children when he dies and Apple have said no
<AlanBell> http://www.ipo.gov.uk/types/copy/c-other/c-exception/c-exception-timeshift.htm you can time shift in your house, but not listen to it in the car!
<pinky-> he's only renting them till he dies
<pinky-> even though he has spent $40,000
<pinky-> umm I think it was willis??
<AlanBell> yes, that is very complicated
<AlanBell> add in multiple countries and inheritance of property and tax etc it gets really complicated
<SuperEngineer> ah - but what if you come from another planet?
<SuperEngineer> [like what I does] ;)
<pinky-> rich and powerful ones
 * SuperEngineer thinks of becoming a bounty hunter - bust anyone with am mp3 player on their belt & claim reward!
<erre> when i tryid to capture my camera with 2 FFMPEG command on 2 terminals.. one FFMPEG work grate and get the video, but the other get this error/dev/video0: Input/output error
 * SuperEngineer sneaks off to have a pint [before the blue lights arrive!]
<erre> someone? something?
<AlanBell> SuperEngineer: if it occurs on the international space station then it is defined in article 21 of the intergovernmental agreement that the law of the country you come from applies
<AlanBell> erre: so one command has the camera, the other can't get it because it is already grabbed I guess
<AlanBell> what are you really trying to do?
<pinky-> I've heard of cam utils that allow you to use one stream into many applications at once but never one that handles 2 cams at once, so I'm useless
<erre> AlanBell: i'm trting to do is to take a video of lightning
<AlanBell> so why do you want to capture it with two ffmpeg commands?
<pinky-> front and back view? :))
<erre> AlanBell: i get the "trigger" only when the lightning is super bright, and I'm want to catch the creation..
<AlanBell> aah, right, this is the 10 second buffer question :)
<erre> AlanBell: yes!
<AlanBell> use a separate rubbish camera for the trigger
<AlanBell> and capture it with the decent one
<AlanBell> do you have a high frame rate camera for the main capture?
<erre> is very expensive high speed camera and capture card that i will rent..
<AlanBell> nice, but a cheap and nasty USB webcam should be sufficient to get the trigger signal
<AlanBell> and that can be a low resolution capture with the max framerate it will do so you don't have a high bandwidth signal to monitor for the flash
<erre> how i can get the trigger with cheap usb camera.. now i have a sensor that send me when i get a strike.. and in this time i need the video of "10 sec before"
<ClaudeTheFascist> AlanBell: format shifting was legalised as part of the Digital Economy Act.
<ClaudeTheFascist> But in reality, the CPS isn't going to prosecute you for format shifting regardless of the supposed legal ambiguity - and nobody will bring a private criminal or a civil prosecution because it'd set a precedent in favour of format shifting.
<erre> i think the "/dev/video0" get locked.. there is a way to duplicate it..
<AlanBell> indeed, it isn't going to happen, but I thought format shifting didn't make the cut for the DE act, it was an amendment they said no to
<AlanBell> erre: indeed, but an additional camera would be /dev/video1
<erre> additional camera  =  one more camera high speed camera = more money...
<AlanBell> why does it need to be high speed?
<AlanBell> 30 frames/second should be fine, it will get the flash time to within 33ms or so and it is a 10 second window you want to grab
<erre> AlanBell: to see how the lightning was created..
<AlanBell> sure, which you see from the good camera
<erre> i think in 1200 FPS i get it more clearly..
<AlanBell> so you are writing the 1200fps camera data to a circular buffer right?
<erre> this is what i want to do
<AlanBell> when the crappy webcam sees the flash you store the buffer from the good camera
<erre> i have an antena for the trigger..
<AlanBell> oh, you are not getting the trigger from the camera?
<erre> it much faster then a webcam..
<AlanBell> ok, so back to the two ffmpeg commands, why two of them (I thought one of them was streaming to something looking for a big flash)
<erre> AlanBell: the antenna get the spike from the lightning. and in this point the lightning is at the end  (you see long spark cross the sky)
<erre> i want to take a video of the starting and the creation of the lightning
<AlanBell> yes, I see that
<AlanBell> so with the two ffmpeg commands were you planning to alternately capture 10 second blocks or something?
<erre> because i dont want to lose frames.. i think to take 1 min video every 30 sec..
<erre> or if i could have to  do sumting like a buffer...
<AlanBell> right, so you were doing that to emulate a circular buffer, I see now
<erre> AlanBell: Yes!
<Wobbo> Is there a simple whey to install the latest AMD driver? A .dev?
<MartijnVdS> Wobbo: why would you want to?
<MartijnVdS> or, "which problem are you trying to solve?"
<Wobbo> it has a problems
<MartijnVdS> So use the free driver?
<MartijnVdS> AMDs own drivers are poo
<Wobbo> EOG
<MartijnVdS> Wobbo: that's unlikely to be a video driver problem
<Wobbo> and gnome-system-monitor
<erre> AlanBell: yes - it is a circular buffer - this is what i trying to do..
<AlanBell> erre: well there are things like gspy and zoneminder that are security camera tools that do triggered reverse capture
<AlanBell> and the openCV library would allow you to put something together in python or other language
<AlanBell> not entirely sure all those would cope with the framerate
<AlanBell> it is a cool project
<erre> i tried zoneminder.. now work good..
<erre> this is my hobby..
<erre> expensive hobby :(
<Wobbo> EOG isnât a video thing right?
<MartijnVdS> Wobbo: it's an image viewer
<erre> relaxed: i think i need to do something like "Circular Buffer"
<MartijnVdS> you'll probably have to write a bit of code to do that
<Wobbo> Ok, it is a 3D ding, sinds i am using Ubuntu classic (3D), 3x 1080*1920 (to get 3240*1920).
<MartijnVdS> Wobbo: ah, it might be a problem with that huge resolution
<MartijnVdS> try to imagine the number of pixels that GPU is pushing..
<popey> could you not stream the video via multicast using vlc
<popey> and then have multiple overlapping mplayer -dumpstream processes connected to it
<MartijnVdS> mmap() a file, loop: read bytes from the camera (memmove everything 1 block "to the front", overwriting the first block), put newly read bytes at the end of the mmap()ed space
<MartijnVdS> when trigger is received: close files, done!
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> why a message is not accepted as a HTML format instead of plain text?
<MartijnVdS> where?
<kaushal> in Mailing List
<kaushal> Any specific reason?
<MartijnVdS> several I can think of:
<MartijnVdS> - HTML mails are larger -> more traffic/storage for mailinglist server
<MartijnVdS> - HTML is not necessary: discussion = text
<AlanBell> there is a mailman setting to reject html or not
<MartijnVdS> - HTML parsers are notably full of security holes, so HTML mail is potentially less secure
<kaushal> ok
<kaushal> MartijnVdS: Thanks and that answers my question
<Wobbo> So, WoW works on 3 screen but EOG not... LoL
<Wobbo> Bye bye
<SuperEngineer> re the /topic "You don't have to start with "d" to be here, but it helps" = discriminatory?
<MartijnVdS>  /topic
<MartijnVdS> uhr
<MartijnVdS> "dumb"? :)
<SuperEngineer> "dinlo" ? ;)
<SuperEngineer> [west country insult]
 * SuperEngineer prepares for a channel kick ;)
 * SuperEngineer prepares for a Chanel kick - smells so much better;)
<SuperEngineer> yea gads - just seen the new topic!  :D
<SuperEngineer> ...someone is being very naughty - please tell me that wasn't caused by my topic bit
<penguin42> ?
<SuperEngineer> my channel topic says "You don't have to start with "d" "dinlo"?to be here, but it helps "
 * penguin42 doesn't have the "dinlo"? in it
 * popey wonders what SuperEngineer is babbling about
<dwatkins> can anyone see the new Doctor Who episode on iPlayer yet?
<dogmatic69> does anyone know how to make mysqls LOAD DATA INFILE work with non root files?
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: my display does
<MartijnVdS> popey: /topic
<popey> no mention of dinlo here
<popey> * Topic for #ubuntu-uk is: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | You don't have to start with "d" to be here, but it helps | Global Jam soon!
<popey> * Topic for #ubuntu-uk set by AlanBell!~alan@ubuntu/member/alanbell at Wed Aug 22 11:29:12 2012
<SuperEngineer> popey: thank god for that
<MartijnVdS> he's trying to figure out what "d" means
<popey> dunno, ask AlanBell
 * SuperEngineer thinks if noone sees the altered topic - bug time!
<SuperEngineer> ...as in part of a comment made included [/topic] & it suddenly changed to include the comment
<penguin42> can you repeat it?
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: not even going to try to repeat it in view of popey comment "babbling"
<SuperEngineer> irc logs will show what was typed - let others try
 * SuperEngineer goes back to playing with lego and pretends to be a cat
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<SuperEngineer> ooo- no bug afterall, just wrong behaviour... you accidentally hit <insert> after a copy & paste [of the topic]... Xchat left focus on topic bar as well as input box
<MartijnVdS> ah
<MartijnVdS> xchat is the problem ;)
<Unnheulu> o
<Unnheulu> Erm
<Unnheulu> Sorry, thought I was still on a different dialogue
<popey> saw this and thought of directhex and ikonia http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Crystal-Pepsi-Un-Opened-2-Liter-New-Citrus-taste-1994-Rare-/350568285048?_trksid=p5197.m1992&_trkparms=aid%3D111000%26algo%3DREC.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D14%26meid%3D1924836018044305437%26pid%3D100015%26prg%3D1006%26rk%3D1%26
<bigcalm_xoom> Hi peeps :)
<popey> hello
<penguin42> popey: Would they drink it?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: nah, he just thinks of directhex and ikonia all the time :P
<bigcalm_xoom> That's so sweet
<popey> they are fans of cola
<bigcalm_xoom> With svn, one could checkout a sub dir of a repo. Why can't I do that with git?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm_xoom: because git stores the entire tree as one thing
<MartijnVdS> and branches are implemented at a "metadata" level, not as copies of the tree
<bigcalm_xoom> Ho humm
<bigcalm_xoom> The price paid for a smaller footprint
<bigcalm_xoom> Ta
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Dinosaurs on a spaceship \o/
<penguin42> oh that was what the D was for....
<bigcalm_xoom> Gah, haven't watched it yet
<bigcalm_xoom> Will do so tonight I hope
 * popey watched it with sophie
<popey> will probably watch again
<bigcalm_xoom> Sounds like an amazon review
<bigcalm_xoom> s/amazon/ebay/
<czajkowski> it was very good
<czajkowski> I'd like rorys dad in it again he was rather fun
<bigcalm_xoom> Time for me to ignore the channel
<jacobw> hi
<popey> heh
<popey> no spoilers!
<czajkowski> well the dr. waves and waggles his screwdiver, the box goes whoooosh whooosh weeee and there are explosions and runnning and the dr has a dicky bow
<hamitron> this digital age has really messed up people being able to talk about stuff.... everyone watches stuff at different times, whenever it is best for them
 * hamitron is always behind with viewing stuff too
<czajkowski> aye I went home after the jam yesterday and watched it on bbc iplayer when my pizza arrived
<penguin42> yeh I need holidays just to keep up with my pvr
<hamitron> penguin42: sounds about right
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> we have 5 adults in the house, and 1 pvr....
<hamitron> the queue to watch "their stuff" is rather tense
<hamitron> better get ready to get to pub for F1 highlights
<hamitron> laters o/
<SuperEngineer> don't won't to spoil anything but...The Doctor wears a dress in this episode, Pond is a Lake, someone runs into the trardis and actually phones the police... oh yea - & the daleks are cute little teddy bears who went to a bad dentist.  Hope I didn't spoil the plot too much.
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: you just made me think of http://www.suck.uk.com/products/teddybearlamp/?search=tedd
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: with an address like that - no need to go see ;)
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: No, it's perfectly safe - it's just a cuddly light
<penguin42> those guys do wonderful designs
<AlanBell> popey sophie and sam are on bbc1 now
<SuperEngineer> is popey the one eating the flowers?
<SuperEngineer> ooo- a cute liddle real life teddy bear
<penguin42> minus it's head
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: I imagine there's a warehouse somewhere with thousands of disembodied teddy heads looking at each other
<SuperEngineer> thought the F1 had started early for a mo - but no, it's a eild life prog... or "live from the pit lane" action
<SuperEngineer> *wild
<SuperEngineer> Pendulum: I imagine there's a warehouse somewhere with thousands of decapitated teddy torsoes wishing they could be looking at each other
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: : I imagine there's a warehouse somewhere with thousands of decapitated teddy torsoes wishing they could be looking at each other
<SuperEngineer> count down now at F1 minus 11,  Olympics close minus 101
<SuperEngineer> [though technically that's Paralympics close]
<SuperEngineer> vroom vroom
<Azelphur> http://splicd.com/hOX_CJVh2uA/8/21 this amuses me \o/
 * penguin42 thinks a bit about reducing his mouse usage - I'm starting to get an ache in my mousing finger
 * penguin42 wonders if there is anyway of selecting that link in pidgin without clicking
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: it probably involves "tab"
<penguin42> nope, tab doesn't do anything
<penguin42> hmm - I can activate numeric keypad pointer keys (shift+numlock) after finding the magic option in KDE
<MartijnVdS> RaycisCharles: Can you please stick to one name?
<spadders> Hi guys, need some help and advice
<spadders> I've just tried an install of ubuntu on a acer laptop that had a hooky copy of win 7 on
<spadders> all went well, install went without issue
<spadders> laptop booted and appeared fine
<spadders> then, I decided to just make sure everything was working, went on youtube and it froze up
<spadders> black screen with loads of text, mouse frozen and keyboard inoperable
<MartijnVdS> what kind of text?
<MartijnVdS> can you take a screenshot (or a photo of the screen, if that's impossible)
<spadders> 1 sec and I can get it up again
<spadders> I tried using dban to wipe and start again, but the same thing happened
<spadders> I hope I haven't compounded things
<spadders> how do I post a photo on here?
<MartijnVdS> what's dban?
<MartijnVdS> just put it on something like imgur.com
<MartijnVdS> and give us the link
<MartijnVdS> or imagebing
<MartijnVdS> uhr
<MartijnVdS> imagebin
<MartijnVdS> http://imagebin.org/index.php?page=add
<spadders> dban - darik's boot & nuke http://www.dban.org/
<MartijnVdS> never heard of it
<spadders> oh, that doesn't sound good
<spadders> there seemed to be a lot of people recommending it
<ali1234> why would you even do that when the installer has a format option?
<MartijnVdS> exactly.. what ali1234 said :)
<spadders> unfortunately, I'm not at all familiar with ubuntu really
<MartijnVdS> no problem :) We're here to help
<spadders> I was trying to help out a friend who had bought a laptop with a hooky version of win7 that was playing up badly
<spadders> ubuntu seemed to be the answer to her problems
<spadders> thank you, it looks like I need it
<ali1234> "playing up badly"
<ali1234> like crashing?
<ali1234> sounds like it is a hardware fault to me
<spadders> ok, i have rebooted and am at the "try" or "Install" screen
<spadders> was very unstable, slow, and the constant " you may be a victim of software piracy etc" messages
<spadders> I have wondered if it could be a hdd fault, but am not familiar with the ubuntu error messages
<spadders> not really sure what I'm looking at
<spadders> shall I run from the CD?
<ali1234> well if you don;t tell us what it says we can't help you
<spadders> ok, I'll run from CD
<spadders> I've had to reboot again, froze up halfway through the boot from cd process, just got the pink screen and cursor
<spadders> can you guys talk me through formatting, and I'll try a re-install?
<spadders> i have the desktop up
<spadders> Martin, can you talk me through a format & re-install?
<spadders> ok guys, do I want "erase disk & install ubuntu" or "something else"
<MartijnVdS> spadders: do you want to keep anything else on the disk?
<spadders> will the "erase disk" option remove any partitions that may have existed under windows?
<MartijnVdS> like a backup, or Windows/rescue partition?
<MartijnVdS> If you do, don't choose "Wipe disk and install Ubuntu"
<spadders> no, it's fine to wipe everything
<MartijnVdS> ok, you can select "Erase disk" then
<MartijnVdS> it'll remove EVERYTHING
<spadders> there's nothing that needs saving
<spadders> install has completed
<spadders> rebooting
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<bigcalm> Evenin' peeps :)
<MartijnVdS> \o bigcalm
<BigRedS> Good morning!
<czajkowski> BigRedS: ello
<spadders> ok, desktop is up, so far so good
<BigRedS> czajkowski: I'm mid-upgrade on IRC on tty1 :)
<bigcalm> Howdy :)
<czajkowski> LOL
<BigRedS> haha, yeah, might be searching for all your bugs in the irclogs soon :)
<czajkowski> hahah
<czajkowski> yeah the upgrade process was not smooth
<czajkowski> which is rather irritating
<BigRedS> yeah
<BigRedS> I also don't like do-releas-upgrade's thing where it only checks for an LTS by default
<BigRedS> will report a bug there when I have a browser again... :/
<spadders> I had the problem last time when watching video clips on youtube
<spadders> shall I try it again?
<BigRedS> which problem?
<spadders> crashed when watching clips on youtube, immediately after a fresh install going from a hooky win 7
<BigRedS> well, worth a try I suppose, you've just reinstalled haven't you?
<spadders> I guess I should try it anyway to see if it works now
<spadders> yes
<BigRedS> Might need to install flash unless you're on the html5 youtube
<spadders> ah, ok
<spadders> er, how do i check that, sorry
<BigRedS> try to watch a viewo on youtube and see what happens :)
<jacobw> Right click on the video and see if it's a Flash menu or a Firefox menu
<spadders> well, i'm in firefox
<spadders> when i right click, bottom of the list is about flash player
<spadders> it's playing at the moment
<jacobw> Firefox is using the Flash plugin then
<spadders> but it did yesterday too
<xnox> BigRedS: there was a block post about it.
<spadders> then at the end of the video, I got a kind of dos screen, with a massive list on it, and it was frozen
<jacobw> See if it crashes again, sometimes when Firefox is upgraded as it's running, plugins misbehave.
<spadders> what can i do if it happens again?
<ali1234> take a picture of the screen and post it
<czajkowski> xnox: oh dear
<jacobw> Er, how are we killing the X server now that we're not Zapping it
<popey> jacobw, why do you want to kill x?
<popey> jacobw, also, CTRL+ALT+F1, login, "sudo service lightdm restart"
<jacobw> popey: see spadders question, unresponsive X
<popey> i haven't seen all of spadders issue, just arrived
<jacobw> popey: np
<popey> reaq up irc logs but it's not caught up yet
<jacobw> spadders: as popey says, the display is managed by 'lightdm' in 12.04, which you can restart from the command line
<popey> ali1234, bug 1030516
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1030516 in linux (Ubuntu) "152d:2338 High IO when writing to USB devices" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1030516
<BigRedS> xnox: a blog post? I've seen that, but it's still Bad that it says "no release found" rather than, say, "no LTS release found"
<popey> ali1234, i just had my machine lock up for ~hours doing a 4GB dd, just rebooted, switched to deadline scheduler and it finished in a few minutes when i re-did the same DD
<jacobw> spadders: pressing ctrl+alt+f1 will get you a terminal, ctrl+alt+f7 will get you back to lightdm/Unity
<popey> and machine was mostly responsive throughout
<jacobw> what's the deadline scheduler?
<spadders> ah, ok, not hte old ctrl alt del then
<spadders> I'm a complete novice with ubuntu
<xnox> BigRedS: good point.
<popey> ali1234, 4000317440 bytes (4.0 GB) copied, 288.934 s, 13.8 MB/s
<ali1234> so how do i switch scheduler?
<jacobw> spadders: in Linux, the X server runs the GUI, it runs a on a virtual terminal, which is just a screenful of things, virtual terminals 1 to 6 are just command lines, and virtual terminal 7 is where the X server attaches in Ubuntu
<popey> see andy smiths comment in the bug
<popey> number #10
<popey> er 9
<popey> although I still have my disk light on permanently some minutes after it finished, not quite sure what the hell it's doing
<ali1234> i wonder if changing that would stop swap activity from completely halting the machine
<ali1234> it's writing cache
<popey> no usb activity
<ali1234> it's writing cacheed HD data that built up while it was doing the read operation
<popey> by the time my "apt-get install iotop" finsishes, it will have done that :)
<popey> 23% io wait for some time
<spadders> jacobw : have watched half a dozen clips and so far seems ok
<ali1234> for large dd the noop scheduler sounds like it would be the best
<MartijnVdS> I've switched to noop for my SSDs
<jacobw> spadders: cool :)
<spadders> So what is the process if it happens again?
<spadders> ctrl alt f7?
<BigRedS> Oh yeah, what're the current favourite SSDs? I think my laptop disk is failing...
<MartijnVdS> I like my Intel
<MartijnVdS> but I only have Intel
<BigRedS> spadders: ctrl-alt-f1, restart lightdm, ctrl-alt-f7
<BigRedS> If 'it' is what I think it is
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: I don't need any brilliant performance, just for it to not fail too quickly :)
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: hence, Intel ;)
<jacobw> spadders: ctrl+alt+f1, log in, `sudo service lightdm restart`, ctrl+alt+f7
<spadders> Great, thanks guys
<BigRedS> " Software Updater must be configured in order for Launchpad to forward bugs to the project's developers. " according to launchpad
<BigRedS> is that something I need to do? I guess not, but then why is it telling me that?
<popey> http://imgur.com/nKC9w
<Azelphur> haha
<BigRedS> haha
<Dave2> haha
<n1md4> Any one have experience with IR remotes, specifically with MythTV?
<Dave2> you broke it :(
 * n1md4 checks for trolls, none seen.
<n1md4> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=ubuntu_1210beta_desktops&num=1 what's the general concensus with Unity?
<BigRedS> It's awesome
<n1md4> *cough* Gnome3 fanboi!
<BigRedS> I'm in Unity now..
<BigRedS> czajkowski: did your window management just come back, or do I need to restart something to get my alt-tab back?
<czajkowski> ahhh you got that too!
<czajkowski> and you mocked me
<spadders> Jacobw : It's just frozen as before, completely unresponsive
<czajkowski> I exited the terminal so then I could alt f4 thunderbird
<n1md4> BigRedS: This is the awesome of Unity, by chance ? :P
<czajkowski> then I finally could see the upgrade window which was handy
<czajkowski> so watching tty1 when it wasn't updating I knew that I was being asked something on the gui
<BigRedS> n1md4: nah, it's the awesomeness of upgrading to a beta :)
<BigRedS> yeah, I'm upgrading in a terminal I can see
<n1md4> BigRedS: Denier!  I've heard the swearing ;)
 * n1md4 cuts out the noise!
<popey> BigRedS, you using staging or not/
<BigRedS> staging? I just did do-release-upgrade -d
<czajkowski> popey: same thing happened me yesterday
<popey> ah okay
<popey> czajkowski, what thing?
<czajkowski> all my window managment went when doing the upgradeso had to go to tty1 to continue
<popey> fun :)
<czajkowski> yeah that was definately one of the words I said yesterday
<BigRedS> but, yeah, did it eventually all just come back by itself?
<czajkowski> BigRedS: had to do a restart when it was all over so it went back to normal
<spadders> System has frozen up again, here is a screenshot  http://imagebin.org/227814
<czajkowski> and then queue my 6 bugs :)
 * brobostigon plays ELO, and parties out.
<BigRedS> ahh
<popey> yay, kernel panic
<brobostigon> :(
<czajkowski> including compiz telepathy and gwibber
<czajkowski> plus power icon >:( no worky
<BigRedS> you need to stop using that crazy weird hardware
<czajkowski> BigRedS: but it's so pretty
<czajkowski> and light!
<czajkowski> lite
<czajkowski> doesn't weight much :)
<n1md4> Oooo what crazy weird hardware?
<BigRedS> actually, yeah, the weight of it is brilliant
<BigRedS> it's a macbook air wannabe :)
 * n1md4 vomits!
<n1md4> Sorry :P
<n1md4> I actually REALLY like Apple hardware, shame it's so bloody hard to get in to though!
<spadders> anyone?
<BigRedS> spadders: it's a kernel panic
<n1md4> spadders: Kernel panic
<BigRedS> you'll need to reboot
<czajkowski> it's a toshbia
<BigRedS> it's not something easy to diagnose normally, but it is something that happens from time to time (though rarely)
<n1md4> czajkowski: Nice!  I like Toshiba.
<spadders> ok, is there anything I can do to stop it happening
<n1md4> (not that my liking has any weight)
<n1md4> spadders: Does it keep happening?
<spadders> yes
<n1md4> might be a bad memory stick?
<spadders> installed yesterday (previously win 7 )
<n1md4> Assuming you're not running any funky customisations.
<n1md4> Hmmm
<spadders> happened every time I boot if I watch video
<BigRedS> Ooh, it's finished!
<n1md4> If it's easy to remove memory, I'd try that; one stick at a time.
<n1md4> Eliminate that problem
<marsilainen> n1md4: I switched from unity to gnome shell (on ubuntu 12.04) around 2 months ago... best decision I ever made
<marsilainen> on the 2 desktops I use regularly I've found gnome shell to be more stable and better usability
<marsilainen> YMMV
<spadders> has just run for about an hour, running vid non stop
<spadders> yesterday, before I did a reinstall, was crashing within 30 seconds
<spadders> (of running video)
<spadders> it's a bog standard acer laptop, celeron 1.7
<spadders> 2gb ram
<n1md4> marsilainen: to be fair, I'd not given unity a 'fair' trial, I did try!  I just couldn't stick with it.  Being stuck somewhere between gnome 3 and mac OS.  It should be personal preference, but I was suprised to see the performance hit.  My friend at work uses unity, it looks sluggish.
<n1md4> spadders: you could try a live CD, try the video again.  If it still crashes, you will know that at least it's not the harddrive.
<n1md4> I'd also check dmesg too.
<popey> spadders, boot from a live cd and use memory test tool on it
<popey> leave it running overnight
<spadders> Ah, ok, that's def wortha try
<marsilainen> n1md4: I used unity for around 9 months (all of 11.10 plus a few months in 12.04) but I have to say having switched to gnome shell I find it to be far better in performance, stability & usability
<czajkowski> n1md4: each to their own , it runs very fast on my machine here
<popey> boot menu has memtest on it
<n1md4> by the way, spadders, how are you attempting video playback? (which player?)
<czajkowski> and I've not seen any hinderance to my work
<spadders> leave it running idle?
<popey> just boot the cd, choose memtest, leave it alone
<popey> its pretty obvious when you have an error
<n1md4> czajkowski: yes, of course, an alternative could be running faster, is all that review is saying.
<spadders> I was watching video on youtube, so I assume Flash
<popey> n1md4, speed isn't the only factor
<marsilainen> n1md4: I'm struggling to find what advantage anyone sees in unity over gnome shell?
<n1md4> popey: quite right.
<marsilainen> popey: so what would you say are the advantages of unity over gnome shell?
<popey> i find unity easy to use
<marsilainen> I agree speed isn't the only factor - just can't say that I find any advantage in unity
<marsilainen> example?
<n1md4> popey: out of interest, have you tried gnome 3?
<popey> i have tried gnome shell, yes
<n1md4> popey: :)
<marsilainen> I'm really not sure what is easier in unity than gnome shell?
<popey> i dont really feel the need to justify the desktop I'm using
<popey> if you like GS, keep using it
<n1md4> Ease of use is where personal preference wades in.
<marsilainen> I'm no gnome shell fanboi - I just want to use which suits best - and I just haven't found any disadvantage in gnome shell
<BigRedS> Aw, are we doing this again?
<marsilainen> fair enough
<popey> nope, we're not
<BigRedS> haha, I thought you'd say that :)
<marsilainen> sorry, wasn't trying to start an argument... was just interested if I'd missed something in unity really
<n1md4> BigRedS: It was totally my fault, I'll know you'll find that hard to believe :P
<marsilainen> I think if I was to make one suggestion for unity it would be to embrace the idea of creating extra workspaces on-the-fly as you need them the way that GS does - I find that to be a very usable mechanism
<BigRedS> marsilainen: haha, that's the bit of Gnome3 that finally convinced me that they were all drunk
<marsilainen> :/
<BigRedS> n1md4: tsk tsk
<popey> as I understand it the plan is to remove workspaces by default
<n1md4> No takers for IR though :\
<BigRedS> (not the making so much as the sudden disappearance of them when they're empty)
<marsilainen> popey: in unity?
<popey> yes
<marsilainen> ok, fair enough...
<popey> n1md4, i use a boxee remote, not irda
<popey> i have used an irda remote, but don't now
<n1md4> ah, what's the difference
<Seeker`> hallo thar
<popey> the boxee remote is basic
<marsilainen> to me, multiple workspaces has been one of the big advantages of a Linux desktop for years... I'd give another system a try if they have a different way to solve the same problem, but intrigued as to what that would be...
<BigRedS> you can add it on to Windows and OSX apparently
<popey> its there by default in osx
<BigRedS> I don't know how well it integrates, though; never done it
<BigRedS> oh!
<popey> it works very much like GS in OSX
<BigRedS> it's probably pretty well done there, then
<popey> you start with one, add them as you need them
<popey> yes, it is
<marsilainen> I currently have 18 windows open across 7 workspaces - I wouldn't want to alt+tab between all those.... but maybe they have another planned solution?
<popey> they do
<marsilainen> cool
<popey> s/they/we/
<marsilainen> I will be interested to see :)
<popey> unity spread
<popey> which I see elementary have implemented
<marsilainen> like I say, I'm not stuck to one solution, just as long as not ditched workspaces without some way to deal with the issues that it solves :)
<popey> we arent ditching them
<popey> just not having 4 on the default install
<AlanBell> what is unity spread?
<marsilainen> well ok, but you see what I mean
<popey> http://www.webupd8.org/2012/03/new-unity-spread-design-for-ubuntu-1210.html
<n1md4> Doesn't it already do that?
<marsilainen> it looks interesting, will try it when it is in a release
<marsilainen> will that be in 12.10?
<marsilainen> oh
<marsilainen> the title says for 12.10 :)
<marsilainen> so I guess so
<marsilainen> I pretty much convinced everyone in the office to switch to GS so I hope I wont have to convince them all to switch back to unity now :)
<AlanBell> being able to read the window titles might help that feature indeed
<BigRedS> Why does it matter what they all use?
<popey> *boggle*
<spadders> popey : where is memtest?
<AlanBell> with super+w spread you can turn on compiz enhanced zoom and zoom in to find out what the windows actually are
<marsilainen> BigRedS: I was being a bit over the top there - what I really meant was that they saw the way that I was working in GS and decided to give it a try and stuck to it...
<AlanBell> pretty cool as the textures are all full resolution, just small and you can zoom in and pan around
<marsilainen> BigRedS: I don't mind what they use... it doesn't matter to me
<popey> spadders, boot the cd, when you see "Man equals keyboard" (accessibility icon) press a key
<popey> spadders, choose english then select memtest
<marsilainen> AlanBell: yeah, it's a cool feature - GS has that too
<BigRedS> is that roughly equivalent to gnome's start-key thingy?
<BigRedS> 'cause I've an inordinate amount of love for that feature
<marsilainen> AlanBell: it's a big god-send when you have lots of identical looking skype windows or whatever
<BigRedS> oooh, no, but it might be better...
<AlanBell> marsilainen: yeah, normally about 15 terminal windows for me
<AlanBell> not massively helpful when zooming out and seeing a load of black rectangles
<marsilainen> the office I work in lives on skype... kills me
<BigRedS> 15 terminal windows?
<BigRedS> no tabbed terminals or screen?
<AlanBell> well sometimes gets up to that
<popey> yeah, I used to do that
<AlanBell> some are screen sessions
<popey> been reigning it in using byobu and tabbed terminals
<BigRedS> I used to keep spawning xterms for things, but I do that in guake now, so I only have one at a time
<popey> i reach for CTRL+ALT+T all the time, trying to stop myself and re-use them
<popey> because at the end of the day I find loads of them open with nothing useful in
<spadders> popey : just froze again , how long does memtest take?
<popey> spadders, leave it running overnight
<spadders> popey : do I just leave overnight?
<popey> yes
<popey> just run it, leave it alone
<spadders> Ok, will do
<spadders> will post back here tomorrow
<spadders> will this be definitive?
<BigRedS> spadders: maybe
<popey> it will certainly be obvious if the memory is at fault
<spadders> ok
<popey> maybe within a few minutes
<czajkowski> skype still crashing on me most annoying when I use it a lot, but mostly kills on first call especially when using vide, killall and restart and its fine
<spadders> ok, will keep you posted
<czajkowski> running it in debug mode doesnt work as once you launch it the debug terminal closes
<spadders> thanks for the help so far
 * BigRedS chuckles
<czajkowski> BigRedS: what...
<BigRedS> czajkowski: at Skype's debug mode
<BigRedS> I'm still finding it funny
<czajkowski> BigRedS: and the bonus of yesterday you now know the effect stuff breaking has on me and the language that results in it
<czajkowski> BigRedS: oh and my funky desktop images :)
<BigRedS> czajkowski: yeah, it's hilarious!
<lucid> lo all, just downloaded, burned & loaded Gnewsense livecd but it didnt start up on either my macbook or PC? Anyone know why?
<lucid> Is there an irc channel?
<BigRedS> Working out why depends on what does happen. I'm not sure if there is an IRC channel, but it's just Ubuntu without the non-free bits isn't it?
<lucid> Correct. it gets to the Ash bit..... and then something this begins :]]]2  all down the screen
<lucid> as if something is missing but I tried burning 4 times now :/
<lucid> loads the splash screen and then gets to the busybox/ash bit and then fills the screen with [:]2 or something like that. Will try again after i am finished watching the alex jones show live.
<lucid> Can anyone recommend something similar that actually works so I can try a few distro's when I get MORE DISCS?  :) Many thanks. :)
<ali1234> yeah, ubuntu
<lucid> har har :)
<lucid> I am in ubuntu :)
<lucid> atleast on my macbook
<ali1234> so why try to install gnewsense?
<lucid> next the PC after I back it all up. I checked out stallman's website & GNU after hearing his interview on infowars and decided I would like to "free software" because he said Ubuntu still has elements that not free? or something like that
<ali1234> there's a good reason why ubuntu has non-free elements: your computer won't work without them
<lucid> Meknows. Just wanted to try a "free distro" but obviously not all they cracked up to be!
<lucid> I shall back up my new PC and fully load ubuntu. Sod MS(I've been lazy) :)
 * hamitron is happy so long as it is cheap and works
<lucid> Ah yes this is why I wanted a free distro.... Adobe Flash Installer Update. I was having problems with this before on windows and I have just received a request on here!!! This is gov backdoor!
<ali1234> don't install it then
<hamitron> gov backdoor?
<lucid> I wont. That was the mistake I made months ago and then it came it was linked to finspy(will find all the info on it hang on)
<BigRedS> if you want a completely free-as-in-freedom software stack normally you need an almost completely free-as-in-freedom hardware one
<hamitron> if the people in government are useless enough to not be able to find pr0n online, they are welcome to view mine
<hamitron> Â¬Â¬
<lucid> Once you accept (even though flash AUTO accepts it) my video's dont work, Firefox continuously crashes and other problems.....
<hamitron> :/
<lucid> http://yro.slashdot.org/story/12/08/31/1434229/finspy-commercial-spyware-abused-by-governments?utm_source=feedburner&amp;utm_medium=feed&amp;utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Slashdot%2Fslashdot+%28Slashdot%29
<lucid> I am an activist with the UK Column and earlier in the year I realised had this bloody thing on my computer. I tried to get rid of it and it locked my out of my windows computer so I turned it off and left it for months because I sooo angry.
<ali1234> i don't see what this has to do with flash
<lucid> oh and it only locked me when I removed the ethernet cable from the net connection.
<lucid> They used flash because everyone accepts flash always asks for updates.... so no one expects it to be dodgy. Look for news articles on it.....
<lucid> It was on BBC news, sky etc.
<hamitron> this is why it pays to be lazy, never get anything done to be monitored ;)
<lucid> http://www.deccanherald.com/content/276444/spyware-targets-dissidents.html
<lucid> FinSpy is made by the Gamma Group, a British company that says it sells monitoring software to governments solely for criminal investigations.
<ali1234> i still don't see what this has to do with flash
<lucid> Hang on let me find the articles specifically  for Flash(Finspy). Too angry to explain coherently ! :)
<lucid> http://wl.wikileaks-press.org/spyfiles/docs/gamma/289_remote-monitoring-and-infection-solutions-finspy.html
<lucid> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FinFisher
<lucid> there you go
<ali1234> "The FinFisher documents also say that its tool can allow a website to  pretend that software such as Adobeâs Flash is missing and will prompt  the user to download the software. Adobe declined to comment."
<ali1234> so it has nothing to do with flash
<lucid> It use's "flash update" to gain access
<ali1234> that's not what it says
<hamitron> you mean it pretends to be a flash update in some cases?
<lucid> Yes
<lucid> YES
<lucid> It pretends Itunes also
<ali1234> http://online.wsj.com/media/finweb_G_20111121185229.jpg
<ali1234> it just displays a website that says "click here to install flash" and then downloads a trojan instead
<ali1234> just about the oldest trick in the book
<lucid> No, it doesnt look like a website. It looks Identical to adobe program. (thanks hamitron for talking for me :)
<hamitron> disabling downloading everything would work too
<ali1234> yeah, well, the first step to not falling for this stuff is to understand how it works
<lucid> Yes, thats what I did for the PC when I reinstalled everything. This has ONLY just started again. Fool me once.....
<lucid> Correct ali1234.
<lucid> Just angry that "they" are trying again...... They wont stop me handing out papers, putting up posters or handing out megaphones to people with good causes..... YA HEAR ME SHADOW PEOPLE. GRR.
<lucid> Rant over.
<ali1234> the really hilarious thing is you try to block legitimate updates which just makes your system even more insecure
<ali1234> and does nothing to block the fakes since they are totally unrelated
<lucid> Agreed. It confuses you into accepting the crap.
<lucid> Also, Shadow People. Yes, I am becoming active again. You have been warned. You should be scared. The tide is turning. :))
<ali1234> you are starting to sound a bit like david icke
<lucid> I went to princess DIana's school :)
<lucid> During 9/11
<lucid>  :)
<lucid> Oh crap. Now you might be able to find out who I am. Drat :D
<ali1234> <fnord>my masters from planet zog already know who you are</fnord>
<lucid> Not in the mood to talk about ickey atm but tomorrow once I have had sleep I would quite happily debate. Been following all this "crap" since I was 12 after I was put on prozac for well greiving my mums death and reading books !!!
<lucid> yes planet zog :D
<lucid> Fucking schools
<lucid> oops :)
<ali1234> anyway best way to avoid malware is to install ubuntu and only use signed packages from the repositories
<hamitron> not using a comp would work too
<hamitron> probably better still :)
<ali1234> if you are super paranoid then openbsd instead
<ali1234> i dont know if they do signed binary packages but i assume they do
<lucid> indeed. This is first time I have seen the "fake flash update" on ubuntu. I am beyond paranoia hahahaha :)
<ali1234> the fake flash update is just a webpage as i said
<hamitron> ah, but did it install?
<lucid> so why is it coming up in update manager
<ali1234> any web page can request you install any plugin
<lucid> no i did not install it
<ali1234> screenshot of update manager with "fake" update please
<ali1234> update manager only accepts signed packages
<lucid> crap sorry not on screen now. Um next time it ask I will screen shot it I promise!
<lucid> it will ask again I am sure
<lucid> I will place a bet on it
<hamitron> little bit off topic, but is 2GB memory enough for ubuntu?
<lucid> I bet with Cacao beans.....
<hamitron> 12.04 that is
<ali1234> speaking of bets, matthew n wright just lost his 10k BTC bet on pirate
<ali1234> i assume pirate didn't pay
<ali1234> oh and he didn't pay up. what a surprise
<lucid> not even beans....  that cheat
<lucid> how do I screenshot???
<ali1234> press print screen
<lucid> on macbook
<lucid> :)
<hamitron> buy a proper machine
<hamitron> ;D
<lucid> sod orf :)
<lucid> Downloads and Installs the Adobe Flash Player plugin. The Adobe Flash Player plugin supports playing of media and other dynamic content online.
<lucid> The Adobe Flash Player plugin will work with a range of web-browsers including, limited to:
<lucid> * Firefox
<lucid> * Chromium
<lucid> * SeaMonkey
<lucid> * Iceweasel
<lucid> * Iceape
<lucid> * Galeon
<lucid> * Epiphany
<lucid> * Konqueror WARNING: Installing this Ubuntu package causes the Adobe Flash Player plugin to be downloaded from the Adobe web site. The distribution license of the Adobe Flash Player plugin is available at www.adobe.com. Installing this Ubuntu package implies that you have accepted the terms of that license.
<lucid> Changes for the versions:
<lucid> Installed version: 11.2.202.236ubuntu0.12.04.1
<lucid> Available version: 11.2.202.238ubuntu0.12.04.1
<Seeker`> !pastebin
<lubotu3> For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://imagebin.org/?page=add | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
<lucid> Version 11.2.202.238ubuntu0.12.04.1:
<lucid>   * New upstream release 11.2.202.238
<lucid>     - debian/flashplugin-installer.{config,postinst},
<lucid>       debian/post-download-hook: Updated version and sha256sum.
<ali1234> packages is totally legit
<lucid> this macbook seems to missing a few keys
<lucid> humm
<ali1234> lucid: what makes you think that is "fake"?
<lucid> because it has only just started happening again. On my PC aswell but I now know it is fake I dont accept it.
<ali1234> you know that adobe does release updates right?
<lucid> yes
<lucid> I am not that stupid
<lucid> :)
<ali1234> so what makes you think it is fake?
<lucid> because my flash on the PC starting screwing up and all of a sudden had two Update requests.....
<lucid> I denied both
<ali1234> well, that's a legitimate update
<lucid> so I turned on this box and hello there he is again :)
<hamitron> perhaps there were security fixes?
<lucid> How do you know it is legitimate?
<lucid> show me
<ali1234> update manager would reject it if it was not signed by canonical
<lucid> realllly? :)
<ali1234> yes, really
<lucid> sure? :)
<ali1234> unless you machine is already compromised, yes, i am absolutely sure
<ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1195672/
<ali1234> that is what i have installed
<lucid> Right, Tell you what. I will accept all the updates in the next two hours. PC and linux.... I may see soon or maybe couple of hours after reinstall :)
<ali1234> update is to address CVE-2012-1535
<ali1234> http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2012-1535
<ali1234> "allows remote attackers to execute arbitrary code or cause a denial of service"
<ali1234> http://www.adobe.com/support/security/bulletins/apsb12-18.html
<ali1234> so you see, you need to install legit updates, or you are worse off than if you install nothing at all
<lucid> stand corrected. on this
<ali1234> i bet they still didn't fix the smurf bug though
<lucid> yeh, so adobe know this happening. good. bloody windows must be compromised again!
<ali1234> "There are reports that the vulnerability is being exploited in the wild  in limited targeted attacks, distributed through a malicious Word  document."
<ali1234> "limited targeted attacks" sounds a lot like ... well, finspy
<lucid> yes, which is legal in the UK
<lucid> :)
<lucid> Thanks theresa may :)
<lucid> ah I have found the INVISIBLE hash key on the macbook. it is miracle
<lucid> Time for a normal cheap laptop methinks.
<lucid> Definately not compaq though. Any suggestions? :)
<lucid> cheers ali1234. For something. :)
<lucid> hmmm nicotine patch or crafty roll up? :(
<hamitron> cheapest
<lucid> old school toshiba satellite :)
<lucid> those were the days
<popey> lucid, thinkpad :)
<lucid> indeed. :)
<lucid> aaaah
<lucid> Q2Jail Break on a laptop with 56k modem..... still mashing up the elite. those were the days
<lucid> :)
<popey> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/230817614580?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2648
<popey> CHEAP REFURBISHED IBM Lenovo T60 ThinkPad Laptop 3.6Ghz CORE DUO Warranty Office
<popey> i like how they say 3.6GHz because it's dual core 1.8GHz
<popey> still, cheap computing
<lucid> Yeah bruv. Gotta laptop to sell its 3.6ghz.......
<lucid> Erm
<lucid> Is it? Yeah bruv, you want it or not? :P
<lucid> It's a deal, It's a Steal..... It's the Sale of the Fucking Century!
<hamitron> 3 PCs in a row.... Ubuntu, Win7 and..... do i make the 3rd win9x?
<lucid> I wonder if he would accept Cacao beans as payment???
<lucid> for fun yes
<lucid> :)
<lucid> nostalgia also
<hamitron> I do have a lot of old games
<lucid> Quake2 Baby yeah!!!
<hamitron> I said old ;/
<lucid> Duke nukem!
<lucid> Doom baby yeah!
<hamitron> :)
<lucid> I would accept Wolf3D as an answer....
<lucid> :D
<hamitron> Destruction Derby 2
<lucid> Yeah baby yeah!!!
<lucid> Stop it
<lucid> Stop it
<lucid> Why were games so much better back then
<lucid> Sod it. Get out the subbuteo (is that how it spelt?)
<hamitron> my other option is to have a raspberry pi on the 3rd monitor
<lucid> what will it be used for ( asks the curious side of me)
<lucid> or ignorant side perhaps
<hamitron> not much tbh
<hamitron> win7 machine will use 2 screens most of the time
<lucid> I would go for fun & nostalgia :D
<lucid> good old win98, cant remember why I loved WinMe or was it Win2000
<hamitron> I liked all 3 tbh
<lucid> probably both for different reasons, the void between 98 & XP wasnt it?
<lucid> yep
<hamitron> XP never really made me happy
<lucid> Dreading Windows 8. Already getting bad reviews and he hasnt been released. Hehehehe
<lucid> yeh when XP came out I went back to 98 because some games/graphics didnt work
<lucid> lots of probs so I recall
#ubuntu-uk 2013-09-02
<predator8bit> hello
<predator8bit> I have a question, can I set the location of a wine emulated desktop? Like automagicly move it to the center as soon as it starts up
<ali1234> depends
<Azelphur> predator8bit: yes
<Azelphur> predator8bit: you can use devilspie to do it
<ali1234> you can also do it with window manager rules, if your window manager supports it. that is slightly less likely to explode
<predator8bit> tried that
<predator8bit> but I have more games that are running in wine and only one that requires this thing
<ali1234> you can set the name of the wine desktop per game
<ali1234> then you can write different rules based on that name (probably)
<Azelphur> yup
<predator8bit> Im using Kwin
<ali1234> in the end, the size of the window is up to the app, but where it ends up on screen is entirely controlled by the window manager
<Azelphur> if you run wine explorer/desktop=<some_name>,1920x1080 <your_executable>
<Azelphur> then it will give the desktop a unique title, which you can match with devilspie
<ali1234> KDE can do window rules
<ali1234> KDE does everything
<predator8bit> I know
<Azelphur> or KDE, or whatever.
<predator8bit> yes Im on Kde, its quite confty :)
<ali1234> personally i like the compiz feature that zooms a window to fit the screen
<ali1234> well, actually it zooms the screen to the window
<ali1234> it's handy when you have a game that won't run at native resolution
<ali1234> and it doesn't matter where the window actually is on screen
<ali1234> kwin cannot do this
<ali1234> at least, i couldn't figure out how to do it
<ali1234> it probably can though, it does everything
<predator8bit> I could run this game on native resolution but that brings me other problems
<Azelphur> ali1234: yea, I love that feature too
<ali1234> yeah, like the game runs super slow
<Azelphur> ali1234: does kwin have a cube? :P
<ali1234> i heard somewhere arma 2 does this natively - instead of changing screenmode it renders to texture and then scales it up
<ali1234> all games should do this, it's much faster and better than any other method
<predator8bit> no, if I switch to desktop 2 and back to 1, the game minimizes
<predator8bit> and if I try to restore it
<ali1234> well then you're not running it in a wine desktop
<predator8bit> it will restore but the panel will overlay it
<ali1234> or you haven't turned on the option that hides mouse events if you leave the window
<ali1234> ah the panel overlay bug
<ali1234> there's nothing you can do about that one
<ali1234> when that happens under compiz, clicking the window brings it back to the front
<predator8bit> yes I know, thats why I play it in a smaller window
<ali1234> setting the window "always on top" might help
<Azelphur> ali1234: you sound like you're a KDE man now :P
<predator8bit> hmm, ill give it a try
<ali1234> why not make the window exactly the size of the area between the panels
<ali1234> Azelphur: when i say KDE does everything, i mean it in a bad way
<ali1234> like the library that contains all books, actually contains no books
<Azelphur> o.O
<ali1234> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Library_of_Babel
<ali1234> predator8bit: you could also make an activity for playing the game, which has no panels
<predator8bit> keeping above helped, the panel overlay bug haunts me no more! thank you!
<predator8bit> :)
<Azelphur> fun
<ali1234> predator8bit: check for the option about mouse and virtual desktops, it's in winesettings
<ali1234> it might help too
<predator8bit> wine is set to steal focus (not letting the window manager to set its focus) so the mouse is trapped inside the game
<ali1234> yeah you don't want that
<ali1234> you want the mode where it tells the game it has exclusive control of the mouse and then just doesn't tell it if the mouse leaves the window
<ali1234> thus the game will not minimize itself or any other funny stuff
<ali1234> if you switch to another desktop
<ali1234> i can't exactly remember how you set that up but i remember doing it, last time i used wine was ages ago though
<predator8bit> i want it to trap my mouse, because if I start to right click on the desktop while in a fight in DotA I'm screwed
<ali1234> lol
<predator8bit> :)
<ali1234> you're like the fourth person  i've seen asking this exact question in the past week
<ali1234> this DotA game was a recent release for linux?
<predator8bit> that was Dota2
<predator8bit> the original game is just a map for the game Warcraft 3
<ali1234> ah yeah - the other people weren't using wine, now i think about it
<ali1234> well, just so you know, people playing DotA2 don't have it any better
<ali1234> natively i mean
<predator8bit> and as Valve stated, they like to hire modders and perfect their mods into standalone games
<predator8bit> like with Team Fortress and Counter-Strike
<ali1234> i've never even heard of it until about a week ago
<predator8bit> I've been playing it for years (and still suck at it x))
<predator8bit> One fun thing about Dota2 is that it's still behind the original, because they haven't ported all the playable characters yet, and some NPC's are missing too.
<ali1234> i think anyone who plays MMOs should read the player of games, use of weapons, and surface detail, in that order
<predator8bit> maybe, but DotA isn't a classic MMO, it is a session based arena style one with a bunch of characters (heroes) to choose from
<ali1234> still applies
<predator8bit> mostly
<ali1234> i would include FPS games too, really, in MMO definition
<ali1234> anything where you're playing directly against random people on the internet
<predator8bit> but in DotA reading it all won't help that much, because there are over 110 heroes to choose from and over 120 items also 4 or more spells per hero, there are many combinations, noone can memorize all of them
<ali1234> oh the books won't help you to play better :)
<predator8bit> not much, this one requires experience, learning the players instead of the game
<predator8bit> of course there is a lot to learn about the game too, but after the basics there is no tutorial to guide you (of course there are some generic tutorials which are trying to be flexible and apply to all sorts of situations, but there are always unpredictable things in this game)
<NetCatty> hi
<directhex> ...?
<popey> Morning
<MartijnVdS> \o popey
<DJones> Morning all
 * MartijnVdS just ordered: http://shop.lego.com/en-GB/The-DeLorean-time-machine-21103
<bashrc> g'day
<AlanBell> morning all
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning all
<popey> Yo
<bigcalm> Ho ho
<AlanBell> o/ TheOpenSourcerer
<TheOpenSourcerer> yo AlanBell
<bigcalm> Aren't you two in the same office?
<AlanBell> not this morning
<bigcalm> Fair enough :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: Did you do any further research into using a Nexus 4 as a iPod Touch alternative?
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: I did, however it seems Sophie specifically wants FaceTime
<popey> well, that's one thing she wants
<dwatkins> Google Hangouts?
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<bigcalm> Skype
<popey> dwatkins: google hangouts isn't facetime
<popey> and neither is skype
<bigcalm> :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> I showed it to Monty last night and he seems keen.
<popey> Many of her friends in her class use facetime.
<popey> Network effect.
<dwatkins> popey: fair enough, I gather it can use video, however, not sure how good it is, and clearly it's a separate system, yes.
<popey> Vendor lock-in etc.
<popey> I use hangouts daily, I know of them â»
<dwatkins> how's the video quality, popey?
<popey> they are all much the same for me
<AlanBell> is facetime point to point or multiplayer?
<popey> One of our friends is getting rid of her iPhone 4, so we got that as it's in very good condition
<popey> p2p
<popey> Don't forget she "can't" use hangouts
<popey> she's 10
<TheOpenSourcerer> Anyone here got a Nexus 4?
<popey> probably can't use skype either
<popey> I do â»
<TheOpenSourcerer> Any good as a general device?
<popey> No. I don't like it.
<popey> For many reasons.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Care to mention any of them?
<popey> Low build quality, too big, poor camera, poor audio, micro-usb, stupid button placement
<marxjohnson> TheOpenSourcerer: I like it :)
<marxjohnson> But i've never been spoiled by expensive iThings ;)
<popey> So we'll probably go with iphone 4 for now and if she wants/needs a phone I'll chuck a sim in it
<popey> oh, and one more. It's android. I don't like android.
<TheOpenSourcerer> k
<bigcalm> Do you like Ubuntu Touch?
<popey> its okay â»
<bigcalm> HEh
<popey> its not finished though, so..
<jussi> TheOpenSourcerer: Ive N4, S3 and Note 2. if you want opinions, I will share...
<directhex> i have a nexus 4
<jussi> (oh and an S2, but thats not relevant)
<directhex> it's my new phone, replacing the wp8 lumia
<mungbean> if my phone broke today i'd buy a n4
<jussi> mungbean: not I...
<popey> directhex: you didnt have that long
<directhex> mungbean, it's obscene value, yes. there's no reason to buy any other phone in the Â£150-Â£200 price bracket
<popey> directhex: found a buyer for your firefox os phone?
<directhex> popey, yeah
<mungbean> directhex: correct.
<TheOpenSourcerer> My 9yr old wants a bit of tech for his birthday in 2 weeks. iPod Touch kind of thing. Thought the N4 might be a good alternative. He's not locked into the iWorld (yet)
<directhex> popey, i got the lumia in january, so it's done better than some other phones
<jussi> TheOpenSourcerer: for that, absolutely
<popey> directhex: as long as that.. time flies
<mungbean> what happened to the lumia?
<mungbean> died?
<directhex> popey, the lumia 820 is just worse for my use cases than the 800 (wp7) was
<AlanBell> you had a firefox os phone directhex?
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: so you'll be locked into the google world instead?
<jussi> TheOpenSourcerer: but buy the protective rubber/plastic thing
<directhex> AlanBell, to play with. am blogging about it, but have been swamped so unable to do so
<AlanBell> I have one on order
<mungbean> popey: "locked into google" allows a whole range of vendors and value
<popey> nope
<popey> one
<popey> google
<directhex> mungbean, got sick of it. now it belongs to fonebank.com
<mungbean> hardware vendors
<popey> doesn't matter who makes the handset, it's still the play store
<directhex> really?
<directhex> never installed an apk from elsewhere?
<jussi> or the amazon store, or one of several others...
<mungbean> with apple you are locked into both, and locked hard
<TheOpenSourcerer> I'd rather be dependent on G than A
<directhex> e.g. amazon, humble, etc?
<popey> yes, but not proportionally a significant amount
<popey> and not core apps
<mungbean> last time i bought htc, next time i am also free to choose from a dizzying array of hpones
<directhex> wife got an iphone the week before i got my nexus
<jussi> popey: define core apps?
<directhex> so i have now experienced an iphone, from the word go
<popey> the ones you use all the time, the ones that everyone uses daily
<directhex> i feel much much much better discussing them, now i know they suck just as much as any other phone
<directhex> the first-run wizard is broken, just as with any android phone
<popey> how so?
<popey> registering an apple account?
<directhex> setting up an apple account is broken. very broken.
<popey> not tried that, will do with sophies
<AlanBell> lots of people manage to get through those wizards
<DJones> To be honest, no matter who you go with, one way or another you're locked in to that manufacturer/os provider, you should just what what suits you and not worry about what other people use
<directhex> AlanBell, somehow, yes
<DJones> However if you get a Blackberry, then a plague upon you!
<directhex> maybe apple just haven't tested their account creation process for a few years, since they expect everyone to have an account already
<directhex> the gnex... "log in to your google account!" "okay." "we've SMS'd you your 2-factor auth code!" "um... i can't see my sms yet, not until i enter the code....."
<andylockran> morning
<directhex> iphone "create apple account!" "okay" "log in to apple account!" "okay" "PASSWORD NOT RECOGNISED!" "erm... reset password" "sorry, that password's been used! use another" "er...ENTERPASSWORDNOWPOPUPOUTTANOWHERE"
<directhex> basically they're all terrible
<directhex> except for the pre3. first-run was great on webos <3
<popey> First run on Ubuntu Touch is awesome
<popey> Mostly because it mostly doesn't exist yet.
<directhex> mostly
<directhex> gnex4 certainly isn't a great sales pitch for LG build quality
<popey> Oh, another good reason for me using iphone and not android.. support.
<popey> phoning google and LG to get a repair was a lesson in how not to do support
<directhex> but few phones nowadays really feel properly "well built"
<mungbean> popey: you are confusing the OS and the hardware interchangeably
<popey> indeed, most feel like plastic crap in the hand
<directhex> i'd say samsung has lead the way on making cheap plasticky crap be considered premium
<popey> mungbean: I'm properly not
<popey> I'm talking about the entire experience
<jussi> the motorola droid was nice
<mungbean> if ubuntu don't release a hardware phone then all your "android" criticism of the hardware will just be applicable
<jussi> (for build quality that is)
<directhex> aluminium makes a phone feel premium. e.g. iphone 5, htc one
<popey> hence why I wanted the edge!
<mungbean> = non removable battery directhex
<directhex> the lumia 800/n9 felt rock solid too
<directhex> mungbean, yes.
<popey> yeah, love the feel of nokia phones like the n9
<mungbean> battery wins vs alum
<AlanBell> popey: why didn't the edge get more traditional funding as well as the crowdsourced element?
<directhex> mungbean, you could persuade me with SD card slots more than removable batteries
<AlanBell> or why was it exclusive to indiegogo?
<popey> dunno. ask mark
<mungbean> my htc battery has lasted well, but i sometimes swap battery with my wife if she is low on charge and is leaving the house
<popey> i saw daviey swap battery last friday on his galaxy nexus or whatever device it was
<popey> never really been fussed about swappable batteries
<directhex> all things told though... i don't think the iphone 5 is worth Â£400 more than the gnex4. i mean, it's not perfect, but it's *incredible* value
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<directhex> is it more premium, yes, clearly
<popey> bought a laptop once which had swappable batteries and never ended up swapping
<directhex> but is it Â£400 more? nein
<mungbean> i'm on my 3rd battery on my laptop
<popey> oh I have replaced them, just not swapped during use
<mungbean> then again, i'm more make do and mend ratehr than buy new stuff, different stroke...
<popey> i rarely buy my own laptop
<popey> haven't for years
<directhex> smartphones have an expected lifespan of 2 years, so as long as a battery can cope with 2 years of use, for 99% of people, it doesn't need replacement
<popey> i guess my 4s is 2 now
<mungbean> bought my htc desire in may 2010
<mungbean> thanks cyanogen
<directhex> nothing like cyanogenmod to make a phone feel mostly new, and also require daily reboots due to some random bug which is essentially unfixable because SOC vendors are assholes and the phone needs to run a 2 year old kernel to have any drivers at all
<DJones> mungbean: Why is it that wife's (not to stereotype or anything) seem to have problems with mobile phone battery lives, just swapped phones with my wife, my S3 that used to drop to about 75% in normal use for me, drops to about 20% by teatime for her, the Desire HD she was using that had to be charged during the day for her, only drops to 50% by the end of the day for me
<mungbean> why is this phone 299? http://www.buymobiles.net/mobile-phones/lg/lg-nexus-4/nosim/sim-free/15009373
<directhex> oh, yes, big shiny glowing gold star of the ages to apple for giving OS updates past the 6 months most android vendors do
<directhex> mungbean, because LG charge a LOT more for the phones wholesale than google do
<mungbean> DJones: its the opposite for my wife
<mungbean> i use my phone on the train though
<popey> whats the "right" way to search for apps on android devices?
<popey> I mean, ones that are already installed
<marxjohnson> popey: to launch it?
<DJones> popey: I use Settings -> Apps
<brobostigon> settings / apps /
<popey> no, not browse, search
<popey> as in, type the name of the app
<popey> to launch, yes
<marxjohnson> the search widget does that I belive
<marxjohnson> although I never search so I dont know :)
<brobostigon> if you set it to, yes.
<directhex> the iphone 3gs will be finally denied OS updates when ios 7 ships later this year. the iphone 3gs released in june 2009, and can run march 2013's ios version, officially
<popey> google search?
<brobostigon> the on device search.
<popey> whats the widget called?
<directhex> the iphone 3gs shipped with iphone os 3, before the term "ios" was even in use. it's seen 3 major version updates, and all the incrementals
<directhex> this defines "how to do it"
 * AlanBell thinks searching for apps by name isn't what people want to do
<brobostigon> go into google now, hit setting, hit tablet search, you should be able to anebale it to search on device apps.
<AlanBell> which happens to be exactly what the Unity dash does
<directhex> popey, it's not technically a widget, as you can't remove it from your home screens, on gnex4
<popey> iOS does it
<DJones> popey: On my N7, I have a Google icon search bar at the top of the screen
<popey> and does it well
<directhex> popey, but yes, just type app name into google search box and it'll show installed apps, like on unity
<popey> i have to type the entire app name?
<mungbean> who actually searches for apps? typing on phones is a pain
<popey> me, I do it _all_ the time on ios
<mungbean> i choose them from a list on teh launcher screen
<directhex> popey, no. you're being a bit of a douche & making up fake reasons to complain, fyi
<DJones> I just tested typing "FB" to look for FBReader and it brought FBReader up by the 2nd letter
<popey> no I'm not directhex
<popey> I do this all the time on IOS and wondered how android did it
<directhex> DJones, 1 letter is enough
<popey> its because I had web highlighted
<directhex> popey, you've invented that it can't, and are saying "yay ios can do it, better than stinky android"
<DJones> directhex: Quite probably
<popey> no
<popey> seriously, I'm asking how you do it
<popey> because I never found a way to do what I do all the time on ios
<directhex> popey, tap the giant google search box at the top of every goddamn home screen page
<popey> stop trying to portray this as anything other than it is
<directhex> then press letters on the lettermotron
<popey> i didnt have a search box
<popey> had to add the widget
<popey> hence asking
<mungbean> hit search, press f = facebook
<popey> jeez
<mungbean> i have a hardware button
<mungbean> it offers me facebook/ some contacts and a bookmark
<mungbean> as resuklts of the search
<DJones> People get used to doing things in a particular way, they're just different, what works for one, doesn't work for somebody else, next thing we'll be arguing over whether to top/bottom post in emails :)
<popey> indeed
<directhex> this is, of course, all a rip off of webos, which had "just type" before the rest of 'em
<popey> characterising me as a douche because I can't figure out how to do something I do with one swipe daily aint exactly helpful, thanks
<mungbean> i like hardware keys
<popey> ditto
<DJones> I'm confused going back the Desire with hardware keys after the S3, I keep trying to find them on the screen
<AlanBell> search widget won't add to a screen for me
<directhex> popey, it's on the stock home screen. try a search for "nexus 4 home screen" on the search engine of your choice
<shauno> popey: curious, have you tried this on ios7?  (not trying to throw fuel on the fire; genuinely curious if I'm the only one that took 2 weeks to figure out where they'd moved it)
<popey> directhex: this isnt a nexus 4
<popey> its a nexus 7
<popey> shauno: nope
<shauno> I won't ruin the surprise then :)
<popey> hah
<directhex> the big search box on http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/201206/r964550_10403468.jpg ?
<popey> just looked at some screenshots
<popey> directhex: mine's rotated on my desk
<DJones> popey: Is that with 4.3? Mine seems to have it by default with no option to remove
<DJones> Thats what I've got on mine
<popey> it disappears when rotated on the desk it seems
<directhex> popey, G logo at the top left?
<popey> there's a g logo which takes you to the search thingy
<DJones> So it does
<DJones> Google Now from the G logo
<popey> but the keyboard conveniently obscures the results
<popey> so I hit G, type E, click soft button to hide kb, press 'search tablet' and see the results.
<DJones> Heh, thats not to useful
<popey> shauno: the ios7 version looks very familiar! :D
<shauno> oh it looks fine.  I just had no clue what gesture summons it
<popey> the reason I want to search is the same reason I use search on iOS, OSX, Windows 7 and Unity, I don't care where the icons are, i know the name of the app. This may be unusual or wierd but it's the way I've used windows/ubuntu for quite a while now so it works for me.
<mungbean> your way works exactly like that on my android too
<AlanBell> I got the search widget running now
<mungbean> hit search , press f. done
<popey> shauno: swipe down http://ios.wonderhowto.com/how-to/open-spotlight-search-ios-7-find-apps-contacts-music-and-more-0147422/
<popey> well it doesn't work here
<popey> hey ho
<shauno> oh I have it now.  it just took me a good 2 weeks  (and the first few times were accidents I couldn't figure out how to replicate)
<popey> oic
<shauno> you've just ruined the surprise, and will miss out on that egghunt :(
<brobostigon> i think the people that make beautiful widgets for android, have made a searchable launcher aswell. not tried it though, but sound like it might help.
<mungbean> http://i.imgur.com/8OH9yPe.png
<mungbean> hit search, press a
<mungbean> results
<mungbean> 2 recent google searches and a selection of bookmarks and apps
<DJones> popey: Have you worked out how to create "app drawers" on the N7? I'd like to have some to group together certain apps (eg Kindle, FBReader, Kobo, Reader) etc
<directhex> DJones, drop one app on another app
<directhex> circle appears around target app = will create a folder
<mungbean> what the heck. i just got spammed by a recruiter that i've never heard of before to ask for sponsorpship for some event
<DJones> Oh, that easy, I'd been googling for it and hadn't found any mention of how to create them
<AlanBell> I can see the point of a smartphone that works like a desktop OS, we might figure out how to use it
<popey> http://imgur.com/5Ods6IE
<popey> hit search, press e
<mungbean> you're holding it wrong ;_
<mungbean> ;)
<popey> hah
<AlanBell> that is the search thing I get, can't get apps in it
<mungbean> which widget? search or google search?
<mungbean> you want one called search
<AlanBell> if I go to settings on that screen, I can configure phone search, and I can see it should be indexing apps, but they don't turn up in search results
<DJones> directhex: Thank you for that tip, thats saved me a lot of screen space
<popey> hit search, press e, press hide keyboard, scroll past contacts, press 'SEARCH TABLET', scroll up past contacts again, http://imgur.com/GWj3dZf
<popey> so yeah, all my fault.
<mungbean> searchable items: apps, browser, contacts
<AlanBell> I do that too, but it still only searches contacts
<mungbean> ooh, and google music, i'll add that
<directhex> popey, think you've just broken it somehow. which is an entirely different android issue
<directhex> reformat!
<popey> i have never used search so fail to see how I broke it
<popey> only found out it can search for apps when brobostigon mentioned it earlier. i thought it was just google (web) search, didn't realise it locally searched too.. so yay, TIL etc
<brobostigon> :)
<MartijnVdS> popey: you can select which local apps it searches inside of too
<popey> nice
<mungbean> so everyone is happy now except for AlanBell ?
<popey> FSVO "happy"
<MartijnVdS> popey: open the blue "Google" app (Google Now), then menu -> settings -> search on phone
<popey> tbh it's rare I want to search inside of apps, other than contacts. i mostly just want to find my apps in amongst a hundred or more icons all over the device
<MartijnVdS> popey: I like finding music through spotify using that bar
<shauno> yeah, I use that for music/audiobooks too.  and contacts.  but rarely apps
<AlanBell> I am fine mungbean, I will just go back to leaving my phone off at the bottom of my bag
<mungbean> old man
<DJones> AlanBell: Technophobe :)
<mungbean> so has anyone tried the gone calendar app?
<mungbean> gnome
<directhex> i will go back to leaving my phone where it belongs - plugged into the wall
<directhex> with a rotary dial, for the lulz
<MartijnVdS> directhex: http://www.dialgizmo.com/
<shauno> I don't think my phoneline supports rotary dial :(
<MartijnVdS> shauno: click that link
<MartijnVdS> shauno: it's a converter box ;)
<mungbean> this gnome cal app: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/08/gnome-core-app-project-make-me-excited-for-desktop-linux
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: With a rotary dial?
<MartijnVdS> Oh cal, not call 8-)
<directhex> our rotary dial phones were wired directly to the wall, not via a plug
<popey> heh http://www.cityam.com/article/1378091289/exclusive-walkie-scorchie-melted-my-jag
<popey> Elevensies!
<popey> anyone tried a device like this to allow you to plug separate mic/headphones into a laptop? http://www.amazon.co.uk/Headset-Buddy-Computer-Adapter-01-PC35-PH25/dp/B002D41HKS/ref=pd_rhf_se_p_t_2_NZ1X
<popey> specifically for my x220 which has a combined port
<shauno> not sure that's the droid you're looking for.  unlikely your laptop has a 2.5mm headphone port?
<popey> good spot
<shauno> not what you asked, but it sounds like you're looking for http://www.amazon.co.uk/Startech-com-3-5mm-Headset-Splitter-Adapter/dp/B004SP0WAQ/
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Headset-Buddy-Smartphone-Blackberry-01-PC35-PH35/dp/B002SK66OY/ref=pd_rhf_se_p_t_1_NZ1X
<shauno> or that :)
<popey> ta
<NET||abuse> hi folks, i'm having an awful annoyance with not having things appear in the unity dash/search lens
<NET||abuse> How do i add stuff in my .local/shard/applications/ *.desktop to the unity search index
<popey> NET||abuse: I'd ask in #ubuntu-desktop maybe
<davmor2> Morning all
 * xnox run out of coffee, so drinking the backups - Nescafe Instant
 * popey has not had coffee for 3 weeks
<mungbean>  does coffee really actually wake you/one up?
<mungbean> it makes me stressed/jittery, which is different
<popey> My nexus 7 does something my old htc hero used to do. notification sounds cut off part way through.
<mungbean> popey should be a QA manager for breaking products
<mungbean> no blender required
 * popey closes apps to see if it's that
<moodoo> morning all
<popey> lo
<moodoo> morning davmor2
<mungbean> enjoyed playing sprinkle the other day
<mungbean> cute game
<mungbean> plus, paper camera has the best effects of any instagram type thing out there
<mungbean> anyone tried gta vice city on a tablet?
<directhex> mungbean, it uses an on-screen d-pad, which is the sign of a war crime
<mungbean> lolz
<directhex> see also http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/designing-for-a-touch-screen
<MartijnVdS> "crime against humanity", because it's even bad *outside* war.
<mungbean> could use a strap-on?
<directhex> mungbean, doesn't resolve any of the problems highlighted in the above video
<dwatkins> mungbean: I find that a pint of water wakes me up fairly well, especially when it forces me to get out of bed to use the toilet ;)
<mungbean> i don't actually want waking up until i reach the office 90mins later
<MartijnVdS> slow-release coffee?
<shauno> that'd be difficult to time.  obviously the answer is just administering intravenous caffeine when required
<MartijnVdS> shauno: using a re-purposed insulin pump?
<mungbean> i'm not a morning person but i wake up eventually
<mungbean> sans caffeine
 * MartijnVdS disabled his alarm clock, and goes to sleep around 22:00 (whenever I start to feel tired)
<MartijnVdS> I always wake up between 6 and 7 in the morning, automagically.
<shauno> I can't do that :/  my magical built-in alarm clock is somewhere around 12-2pm
<MartijnVdS> shauno: that's the point: it auto-adjusts to "6-8 hours after going to sleep"
<MartijnVdS> shauno: if you keep it up for a week, and *don't* sleep in ever (that's the drawback)
<shauno> oh I'm quite capable of sleeping for 14 hours if I go to bed early
<MartijnVdS> I can only do that if/when I haven't slept enough for days
<shauno> luckily I have a lovely espresso machine to facilitate 6am shifts
<mungbean> i have kids. a lie in is when i can sleep until the alarm
<mungbean> whats the fallout from the ebook pricefixing case? some americans get a little rebate ?
<MartijnVdS> $3
<mungbean> for USians i presume
<mungbean> in NY
<Dave2> Sting would be disappointed
<MartijnVdS> Dave2: as an Englishman in NY?
<Dave2> indeed.
<Darael> MartijnVdS: I looked at doing that once.  My friend with an insulin pump even promised me hers when the warranty runs out and the NHS gives her a new one.  But the big problem with it is that insulin delivery isn't actually IV.
<mungbean> haven't actualyl found any details about the ebook rebate that tell you what u wanna kow
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: http://www.macrumors.com/2013/08/30/proposed-e-book-publisher-settlement-could-see-customers-receiving-up-to-3-per-book-purchased/
<mungbean> out to consumers who purchased e-books between the iBookstore's April 1, 2010 launch and May 21, 2012.
<mungbean> consumers based in US?
<mungbean> and what changes going forward?
<Seeker`> Darael: I don;t think that would be the only problem
<Seeker`> Insulin pumps have a 1.8 or 3 ml reservoir, and take about 5 minutes to deliver 5/100 of a ml.
<Darael> Seeker`: Depends on the pump, actually, but yeah, one would have to calculate the caffeine levels in whatever medium was used (probably saline would be best) very carefully.
<Darael> Don't want to cause caffeine poisoning.
<Seeker`> I'm certainly not aware of any significantly different reservoir sizes to that, and I can't imagine any of them delivering insulin much faster than that
<Darael> Also depends on whether the pump is doing an immediate bolus or an extended one.
<Seeker`> it takes several minutes to do an immediate bolus of 5 units of insulin, which is 5/100 of a ml.
<Darael> Not my experience from watching Rachael, but the point is that insulin pumps are just not going to be an effective caffeine delivery system.
<Seeker`> My experience is actually being connected to one :P
<Darael> Fair enough.
<Darael> I mean, firmware hackery could accomplish a certain amount, I would guess, but this still leaves reservoir-capacity and delivery-location problems.
<Seeker`> yeah. It is amazing just how many people suggest it though :P
<Darael> In the end, I think we can agree it probably wouldn't work without nearly as much effort as it would take to develop an automated (or semi-automated) IV caffeine system from scratch.
<Seeker`> Plus, you do have to change pump sites every 2-3 days too
<Darael> Quite.
<Darael> ...heh.  I'm sorry, I just remembered Rachael's description of the state of *monitoring* pumps (artificial pancreases, if you will).  "We can produce ones that work really well as long as you don't do anything complicated like move or sleep"
<mungbean> http://www.jcmit.com/MemoryDiskPriceGraph-2012Feb.jpg
<MartijnVdS> Darael: heh.. oops
<mungbean> Historical Cost of Computer Memory and Storage
<Seeker`> Darael: yeah, CGMs go wrong if you lie down
<Seeker`> moving doesn't seem too bad
<Seeker`> as long as you aren't too energetic
<Seeker`> Having said that, CGMs are incredibly useful (CGM being the thing that monitors blood sugars, an artificial pancreas uses the CGM data to control the insulin pump)
<mgdm> if you're addicted to caffeine to the point where you're considering modding insulin pumps to deliver it, my advice is go and speak to someone :P
<mungbean> starbucks?
<MartijnVdS> costa?
<mungbean> glaxo?
<mungbean> or just go to bed earlier
<mgdm> get your head read
<popey> I've started going to bed at 10pm and waking at 6am for the gym at 06:30. works a treat, no coffee required
<MartijnVdS> popey: same, no alarm required either for me ;)
<MartijnVdS> though "gym" is usally in the evening :(
<popey> â»
<mungbean> i don't think i've ever seen inside a gym
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: it's more fun than you'd think
<mungbean> must be
<mungbean> people pay a lot for something that a bit of gardening can do :)
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: I don't know what kind of garden you have.. :)
<mungbean> one with gym equipment
<MartijnVdS> 8-)
<mungbean> weeds, digging, lifting mowing
<mungbean> running away from spiders
<jussi> its so funny here (finland), there are 0 spiders that are poisoness... unlike my native country of Australia
<mungbean> which is why you are in finland?
<MartijnVdS> jussi: but in Finland it's cold enough to freeze to death 90% of the time
<jussi> MartijnVdS: yeah, but only if you dont dress correctly
<jussi> mungbean: no. (and my wife the silly girl wants to move to australia.)
<MartijnVdS> opposite land 8-)
<mungbean> i get tempted by the idea when i see it on telly.
<mungbean> only by the sunshine, doesn't seem to have much character
<MartijnVdS> I want to visit Australia one day.
<MartijnVdS> But live there? I dunno.
<mungbean> i have reliatives in NZ
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: you're a sheep?!
<dwatkins> I think I'd probably cope with living in Australia, but I'd need factor 2.5x10^20 sun cream.
<mungbean> bah
<popey> their economy seems okay
<popey> they have sucky internet though
<MartijnVdS> they also hate for'ners, it seems
<MartijnVdS> at least that's what their on-line news sources claim
<MartijnVdS> "news"
<mgdm> someone I know just moved there
<jussi> popey: I think "sucky internet" doesnt actually cover it...
<mgdm> they don't hate it, aside from slow internet
<Darael> Oz does have a reputation of being one of the more xenophobic "western" countries.  Although calling Australia "western" is kind of silly.
<mgdm> I did laugh at him when he said he was going to do it, as the 'great firewall of .au' was news then. Now who's laughing?
<MartijnVdS> the far west
<popey> So western, it's yesterday!
<mungbean> oz seems to be the most un-PC place on earth
<mungbean> and maybe scotland, but nobody understands what they are saying up there
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: you'd swear all day too if every other animal could kill you
<Darael> MartijnVdS: I thought it was all of them except some of the sheep?
<MartijnVdS> Darael: and the rabbits.
<jussi> mungbean: isnt that a good thing? political correctness is silly...
<MartijnVdS> Darael: and some might be busy killing other people/animals, and not trying to kill you at that very moment
<Darael> The "some" is important.  Ever *seen* an angry tup?
<Darael> jussi: Depends what one means by political correctness, doesn't it?  PC is used to refer to a number of things, from not swearing to saying things in a way that implies some basic respect for human beings.
<DJones> jussi: How did you cope with the temperature change from Australia to Finland? I've got family from Perth visiting the UK at the moment and they've been shivering through our summer, jumpers, thick coats & scarfs etc
<Darael> Swearing a lot is an example of Aussies being un-PC in a way that's arguably a good thing.  Well, the not minding if people do is.  But, for example, Coon cheese is an example of an Australian thing that's un-PC in a *bad* way.
<jussi> DJones: I am not one who likes it too warm. That said, Finland housing is actually insulated, unlike the badly designed/created houses in the UK. (most houses here are 23C all day everyday in the winter). Outside, its just a matter of wearing the correct clothing
<jussi> Darael: whats wroing with coon cheese? tastes great?
<AlanBell> jussi: do you put the baby outside to sleep?
<jussi> AlanBell: yes
<jussi> AlanBell: up until about -25
<jussi> AlanBell: baby sleeps much better with the cool air. just have to make sure it is wrapped up properly
<MartijnVdS> doesn't it get stolen if you keep it outside?
<Darael> jussi: The branding is what's wrong with it.
<jussi> MartijnVdS: no... ?
<jussi> Darael: still not getting it... ?
<mungbean> i had a russian colleague who put his son to sleep on the balcony of his moscow apartment each night in winter
<mungbean> must have had hairs on his chest at age 2
<mgdm> he'd have had hairs on his teethat that rate
<mungbean> lol
<mungbean> hot house not good for baby, sleep outside, simples.
<mungbean> is pretty much was he said
<jussi> mungbean: yeah, thats pretty much it
<jussi> baby sleeps much better in the cool air.
<MartijnVdS> Doesn't sleeping outside = mosquito food?
<mungbean> not in russian winter
<jussi> MartijnVdS: you think there are mosquitos at -20 ?
<MartijnVdS> jussi: no, but +15 and up
<MartijnVdS> jussi: like, say, weeks like this
<mungbean> not on the 34th floor of an apartment
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: 34th floor? And I thought living on the 7th floor was scary 8-)
<mungbean> probably brought him inside and put him in the fridge
<mungbean> i made up the 34th floor bit
<mungbean> but i was in a v high hotel in moscow and the wind was making the tower wobble
<MartijnVdS> scary
<Laney> hmm, VM increasing me internet by Â£2.50/month
 * Laney takes a look at infinity
<MartijnVdS> also increasing service?
<Laney> apparently I'm still getting great value broadband
<MartijnVdS> audacious claim
<directhex> i'm also still getting great value broadband
<directhex> ...from bt
<jussi> MartijnVdS: depends were you live - Mosquios have left for the winter already here, but for the weeks when they are around, we just put a mosquito net over the pram/basket
<mungbean> talktalk putting their prices up too
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: yay free market
<Laney> BT is slightly cheaper if you pay line rental annually apparently
<Laney> not as fast though
<mungbean> talktalk siad i could exit contract due to their price rise
 * Laney nods
<MartijnVdS> yay EU-mandated laws ;)
<mungbean> nobody is very good value though :(
<mungbean> unlike, say giffgaff in the mobile space
<popey> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TECHNIKA-SPB112-BLUETOOTH-SPEAKER-USB-RECHARGEABLE-BATTERY-WITH-AUX-IN-BLACK-/350860211286?pt=UK_MP3_Player_Accessories_AudioDocks_Speakers&hash=item51b0e5f456
<popey> not bad for 15 quid
<MartijnVdS> I still have that "Road Rocker" http://www.ionaudio.com/products/details/roadrocker
<MartijnVdS> popey: Is it a USB speaker as well?
<MartijnVdS> or just USB-powered
<popey> just usb powered
<popey> sound has to go over bt
<Dave2> you have to send your music over the phone network? that doesn't sound very practical.
<mgdm> I found recently that although I can plug my iPhone into my car's head unit, and Spotify and iTunes work over that, if I use Google Maps for directions that goes over BT
<mgdm> which is a bit weird
<Seeker`> mgdm: suits you :P
<Seeker`> Laney: do you actually use the full bandwidth? How fast is your VM service?
<mgdm> Seeker`: :D
<popey> yeah, i need to shop around too
<Seeker`> jabber \o/
<MattJ> Jabber \o/
<MattJ> Getting slow :(
<mungbean> this is what i wish i was doing right now http://i.imgur.com/xMkVVwk.jpg
<mgdm> risky click, but got away with it
<mungbean> ehehhe
<mungbean> life is simple when ur 5months aold
<dwatkins> this is what I wish I was doing right now on a beach with a kite like a happy child: http://imgur.com/Klt7ffj
<mungbean> i'm not sure what exactly i've achieved at work today since a pneumatic drill has been drilling near my head.
<dwatkins> stubbornness at remaining at your post, mungbean?
<dwatkins> I'd have thrown paper into the air and gone to work from home
<mungbean> tomorrow i will decamp to my other office
<mungbean> if its still going
<mungbean> hey i was gonna get my kite out of the loft yesterday
<mungbean> but i realised that my 3yr old would be launching the kite..possible danger ahead
 * dwatkins is surprised to discover his virtual XP installation still works
<dwatkins> yeah, although it wasn't windy enough for my colleague to use his kite out near Polmont yesterday.
<dwatkins> you'd think that on the east coast of Scotland there would be enough wind for kite flying.
<mgdm> dwatkins: it's fairly windy in Glasgow today, and while driving back from Embra last night it was really very windy near Shotts
<dwatkins> yeah, was very very windy in Tollcross last night.
<mgdm> did you see the fireworks at all?
<dwatkins> sadly not, my flat faces the wrong directions
<mgdm> I watched them from Gracemount sort of direction with the radio on in the car :-)
<dwatkins> nice
<diddledan> don't you love when you put something back together and you find something left over? what's worse is you can't work out what it's supposed to be for
<diddledan> I have from my WD MyBook Live (pos) a rubber block about 2/3" x 1" x 1cm
<mgdm> interesting mix of units
 * dwatkins hands diddledan an ice cube tray for next time
<dwatkins> lay out the screws and other parts in the tray to show what part of the device they came from
<diddledan> N.B. mybook live, despite having apt installed doesn't like being updated through apt
<diddledan> I bricked my device :-p
<diddledan> hence the pulling apart
<diddledan> it's working again now thanks to a friendly person on the internets who made a dd image of their drive available for anyone to download
<dwatkins> that's handy
<shauno> where would the internet be without nice people with a strange compulsion to share
<neuro> grrr cars
<neuro> grrr web analytics
<neuro> grrr aws
 * neuro gets angry at Things
<MartijnVdS> neuro SMASH
<mgdm> they hate you too
<neuro> indeed
<neuro> and, indeed
<diddledan> "grrr" is foreplay, isn't it?
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: for Klingons
<diddledan> lol
<neuro> stupid Arnold Clark went through 3 aftermarket flexi exhaust kits for my car before realising none of them would fit, and that they should have quoted and ordered the kosher fiat parts in the first place
<neuro> so now they have my car for a week instead of 2 days, i'm paying 100 quid more, and i have to drive this STUPID Kia Piccanto around a while longer
<neuro> </rant>
<MartijnVdS> neuro: at least it's not a Ford Ka
<neuro> i'd prefer a Ka
<diddledan> neuro: surely they should absorb the cost of getting it wrong?
<dwatkins> my mum has one of those :-p
<MartijnVdS> neuro: they're silly
<neuro> diddledan: they've managed to discount the fiat parts, and after pushing by me, they're offering an additional Â£12 off
<diddledan> twelve whole ones?
<neuro> kwik fit say they could have the right aftermarket part supplied and fitted for the same price as arnold clark, but with a 3 yr parts+labour warranty rather than the 1yr parts + 3mo labour warranty AK offer
<neuro> but since AK have basically let the hanging bracket disintegrate as they took it off, and claim they have had to cut the rest of the exhaust off due to it being welded to the chassis, i can't take the car anywhere else as it's not roadworthy
<neuro> i swear they should wear balaclavas and shout "stick 'em up" as you walk into the showroom door
<neuro> diddledan: yup, twelve whole ones
<mgdm> neuro: get them to pay for someone with a trailer :-)
<neuro> it's their fault they did other work before cutting off the exhaust, but can't road test the car to confirm the other work is ok, or if it needs more work done, because they've cut off the exhaust
<neuro> and it's their suppliers that have shafted them
<neuro> and, by proxy, me
<neuro> utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter pain in the unmentionables
<diddledan> pain in the exhaust port
<neuro> ba dum tsh
<MartijnVdS> neuro: some soothing hardcore gabber for you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sT4v2isvFQg ?
<neuro> 2 metres wide
<neuro> right behind the main port
<neuro> MartijnVdS: pass
 * neuro hits play on itunes again
<MartijnVdS> neuro: it's King Dale - Utter 8-)
 * neuro is listening to "What Your Soul Sings" by Massive Attack, from the album Collected. 231kbps MP3 
<Laney> haha
<Laney> I remember those now playing scripts
<neuro> yeah, Linkinus lets me whack in /itunes and the nostalgia just rolls right over you
<neuro> i can do this too:
<neuro> System Info: Model:  MacBookPro9 Â· CPU Speed:  8 @ 2.6 GHz Â· L2:  256 KB Â· L3:  6 MB Â· RAM:  8 GB Â· OS X:  Version 10.8.4 (Build 12E55) Â· Hostname:  hornet Â· User:  neuro Â· Client:  Linkinus 2.4.3/25089 Â· Style:  I Are Sea!
<mgdm> Because everyone cares aout the precise bitrate the MP3 is encoded at
<neuro> yu
<neuro> p
<Laney> My favourite was the one that told me how many people I had "power" over
<Laney> i.e. the sum of all non-ops in channels I was opped in
<neuro> lol
<MartijnVdS> Laney: not the sum of people on the server you were op on? ;)
<Laney> oh MAN you out leeted me
<Laney> see, it still happens people
<MartijnVdS> Laney: it'll happen more often when you get older :P
<diddledan> mIRC rockxs yo l33t sockxs
<Laney> is it still developed?
<diddledan> I believe so, and it still looks exactly the same
<neuro> yup, v7.3.2
<neuro> in May
<neuro> costs $20
<Laney> wow
<Laney> still uses that horrible default font
 * mgdm slaps diddledan around a bit with a large trout
<neuro> hehe
<neuro> does it? I thought it did Lucida Console by default now
<mgdm> I remember having mIRC with some absurd script thing that made it do all kinds of weird things
<mgdm> then I switched to irssi
<MartijnVdS> then you could write them all over again
<MartijnVdS> in perl
<mgdm> I don't really think I need to
<Laney> cowsay is all i need
<mgdm> or figlet
<neuro> figlet \o/
<mgdm> I used figlet for actual work reasons the other day \o/
<mgdm> (making a blindingly obvious MOTD on a machine)
<neuro> \o/
 * neuro makes boring ones using ec2 tool thingies
<neuro> with dire threats about the computer misuse act in them
<mgdm> heh
<mgdm> I always wonder about those, and if they're even vaguely useful
 * mgdm suspects not
<neuro> what, ec2?
<mgdm> No. The dire warnings about the CMA
<neuro> ah
<mgdm> I know EC2 is useful :-)
<neuro>  - This system is for use by authorised users for company business only.
<neuro>    Unauthorised use or entry contravenes the Computer Misuse Act 1990.
<neuro> that's what i put in mine
<neuro> for work, natch
<MartijnVdS> neuro: that's implicit in a password prompt in .nl :)
<Laney> pretty sure it is here
<neuro> however, for my own stuff ...
<neuro> http://pastebin.com/JXxyRtRf
<neuro> mgdm: figlet at work, again :)
<MartijnVdS> unreadable, too
<neuro> looks better as white on black
<MartijnVdS> A BBS I frequented in the 90s had a 50-line "ANSI art" Smurfette before its login prompt 8-)
<neuro> heh
<neuro> 14.4k?
<MartijnVdS> neuro: everyone had 14k4, I had 9600 with MNP5 compression
<MartijnVdS> because $dad
<neuro> :)
<neuro> been there
<neuro> i used 9.6k GSM because my dad wouldn't run an extension off his 2nd phone line so i could dial out
<MartijnVdS> wasn't that very expensive back then?
<neuro> 1999? not that bad
<MartijnVdS> ah '99
<MartijnVdS> I was thinking '95ish
<neuro> yeah, i just used le uni internet back then
<neuro> sneakernet back to home
<neuro> 'chips met een onweerstaabnaar lekkere smaak'
<neuro> i love the dutch word 'smaak'
<neuro> it's awesome
<MartijnVdS> Are they really onweerstaanbaar?
<neuro> they were olive flavoured
<neuro> so i'd say semi-resistible
<MartijnVdS> so they were lekker?
<neuro> redelijk
<directhex> badger badger.
<MartijnVdS> directhex: only two left then?
<neuro> PADDESTOEL, PADDESTOEL!
<MartijnVdS> neuro: I used to live on the "Paddestoelweg" actually :)
<neuro> hehe
<neuro> i bet there are no actual mushrooms there
<MartijnVdS> Very few.
<directhex> dachs!
<MartijnVdS> directhex: that's German. We skip the "ch" here.
<MartijnVdS> Das. Das. Das. Das. PADDESTOEL PADDESTOEL.
<neuro> SLANG! SLANG! Ohhhhhh, het is een slang!
<neuro> we should stop this
<neuro> :)
<directhex> this is why it's called a dachshund. it's a species of hund, genetically engineered to hunt the fearsome dachs
<directhex> and EAT ITS FACE OFF
<MartijnVdS> damn you monsanto!
<neuro> dassenhond?
<MartijnVdS> neuro: nah, Teckel :)
<MartijnVdS> neuro: yay Wikipedia's alternate language bar thingy
<neuro> hehe
<neuro> right, time to divert temporary enragement from windows servers to driving about in a stupid Kia Piccanto
<mungbean> !ping
<lubotu3> pong!
<MartijnVdS> !pong
<lubotu3> pong is an old atari game. It's fun!
<shauno> it was fun until they went stomping around 30 years later :/
<mungbean> i should prob unignore joins/parts
<mungbean> keep thinking irssi has frozen on me
<mungbean> when nobody speaks for 3 hours
<shauno> 'plasma pong' came out a few years ago, and was surprisingly good.  until Atari roflstomped it because they have to protect that valuable Pong franchise
<mungbean> i can't tell if gadget man is being presented by richard ayoade or maurice moss
<mungbean> this programme is so awkward
<Seeker`> I think I saw Adam Hills in Euston earlier today. Wondering whether I should have gone and said 'hi' to him
<popey> mungbean: do you not have a clock in the corner in irssi?
<mungbean> oh yes
<mungbean> ircnet server i was on spazzed up earlier so was unsure what was happening
<mungbean> froze my sessions, forgotto check the clock though
<bigcalm> popey: tell me about charms :)
<mungbean> lumitab projector
<popey> wat you wanna know?
<mungbean> http://crave.cnet.co.uk/laptops/promate-lumitab-is-a-bonkers-android-tablet-with-a-projector-50011089/
<bigcalm> About to set up an Ubuntu 12.04 server on Rackspace. It'll be hosting what should be the latest version of gitlab. I want to know if I should use juju or do everything myself from source :)
<bigcalm> Where do I find the source for charms?
<bigcalm> manage.jujucharms.com ?
<popey> https://jujucharms.com/
<popey> https://jujucharms.com/fullscreen/search/precise/gitlab-2/?series=precise&text=gitlab&type=approved
<popey> i probably wouldn't use juju for a single server install like that
<bigcalm> Considering that gitlab is now at version 6...
<bigcalm> :)
<popey> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~charmers/charms/precise/gitlab/trunk/view/head:/hooks/install
<popey> thats what the charm does to install gitlab
<popey> 	sudo -u gitlab -H git clone https://github.com/gitlabhq/gitlabhq.git gitlab
<popey> â»
<bigcalm> Interesting
<bigcalm> I love that gitlab is hosted on github :D
<mgdm> Seems fitting, given who it appears to be 'inspired by'
<mungbean> has anyone ever been to nothe fort in weymouth?
<bigcalm> Rackspace cloud server: 512MB/20GB server for 2p per hour or 1GB/40GB for 4p per hour?
<bigcalm> Start small and grow it if needed
<bigcalm> But I recall gitlab running horribly slow on an under powered server
 * bigcalm checks for RSVP emails
<ali1234> last time i tried to install gitlab it also needed loads of ruby stuff that isn't packaged
<ali1234> or, wasn't
<bigcalm> No RSVP emails :'(
<bigcalm> ali1234: it is a bit of a ball ache to install
<bigcalm> Lets see how the documentation goes with the the latest release
<ali1234> it wasn't hard to install... it was just "sudo setup.sh"
<ali1234> the hard part is uninstalling it :(
<bigcalm> Oh dear :)
<popey> is the box only going to do gitlab?
<bigcalm> popey: yes
<mungbean> http://www.turnkeylinux.org/gitlab
<bigcalm> Ooooo, my android tv dongle might be delivered tomorrow
 * bigcalm rubs his hands
<Seeker`> as long as thats all you're rubbing!
<popey> which one did you get?
<bigcalm> popey: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00B18K4T2
<bigcalm> Pondering the purchase of a bt keyboard with touch pad. Or not...
<popey> i do like the related items at http://www.amazon.co.uk/Doctor-Smith-Eleventh-Doctors-Screwdriver/dp/B003FHXMDC
<popey> ooh, i know a good keyboard...
<bigcalm> Hehe
<bigcalm> I don't see that as a related item
<popey> its not
<popey> I'm saying I like the related items to that item
<bigcalm> Oh
 * bigcalm looks
<popey> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MELE-F10-2-4GHz-Air-Mouse-Wireless-Keyboard-IR-Remote-Control-Universal-PC-TV-/261041338224
<bigcalm> Ha
<popey> that
<bigcalm> Fez and bow ries
<bigcalm> Snazzy
<bigcalm> Do you have one?
<bigcalm> Does it work with your V+ box? :D
<popey> i do not
<popey> friend bought one
<popey> ooh, sam would love this http://www.amazon.co.uk/Doctor-Who-Sonic-Screwdriver-Universal/dp/B008MYVNXO
<bigcalm> Is Sam a bigger fan than Tony?
<awilkins> Shocking price
<awilkins> One of those combined with a TV-be-gone would be super though
<awilkins> Just wop out your sonic screwdriver and kill the TV in any bar or lounge
<popey> and so to bed.
<szymon_g> hi
<szymon_g> how can i generate xorg.conf file? X -configure (with X turned off) doesn't generate proper one
<Azelphur> what driver are you using?
<szymon_g> intel's one
<szymon_g> (ubuntu 12.04)
<szymon_g> igp 4000, laptop with optimus technology
<Azelphur> not sure then, xorg doesn't create it by default any more
<daftykins> szymon_g: why do you feel it necessary to have one?
<szymon_g> i'm going to configure touchpad (synaptics), i need to edit it. also, i prefer to have one
<ali1234> you can probably just copy an old one
<daftykins> you should be able to get a sample xorg.conf online easy, then just put in the intel driver
<daftykins> unless you've been successfully utilising your optimus setup
<ali1234> i think you can just have the synaptics config and skip the rest
<szymon_g> ali1234, i don't have the "old one"
<szymon_g> to put synaptic's configuration, i need to have a working one. I'd like to use the configuration xorg uses now
<rafaelo> hello everybody
<daftykins> hai
<rafaelo> i came here for some help in ubuntu.....  can someone help me ?
<rafaelo> i am newbe
<daftykins> ask away describing your problem, but bear in mind that seeking help at 20 minutes to 1 might not get so many answers in -uk as you might in #ubuntu :)
<rafaelo> ok no problem :) i have questions easy for you
<rafaelo> i have managed most of my problems but there are some that i gave up
<rafaelo> i want to upgrade the prog "pulseaudio" but i cant compile it
<rafaelo> i downloaded version 4
<daftykins> in ubuntu, software should be obtained by using APT repositories, not by downloading and compiling
<rafaelo> and when i am starting to install it needs other progs, and other progs e.t.r
<rafaelo> ok but repo is out of date
<daftykins> are you running an old ubuntu version?
<rafaelo> what is the fastest way to see my version?
<ali1234> apt-cache policy pulseaudio
<ali1234> !info pulseaudio
<lubotu3> pulseaudio (source: pulseaudio): PulseAudio sound server. In component main, is optional. Version 1:2.1-0ubuntu4.1 (quantal), package size 880 kB, installed size 3256 kB
<shauno> seems to be 3.0 in raring and 4.0 in saucy.  someone's on a version spree
<rafaelo> !info pulseaudio
<lubotu3> pulseaudio (source: pulseaudio): PulseAudio sound server. In component main, is optional. Version 1:2.1-0ubuntu4.1 (quantal), package size 880 kB, installed size 3256 kB
<ali1234> they dn't seem to use the point
<ali1234> rafaelo: the thing is, if you upgrade pulseaudio like that, loads of other software on your system will break
<ali1234> versions have to match
<ali1234> maybe not exactly, but eventually you'll break something if you carry on doing that
<rafaelo> please wait for a while i am confused
<shauno> I'm curious what you need 4 for?
<rafaelo> yes sure i want to explain
<rafaelo> when trying to play a 720 and up videos there is a message
<rafaelo> that i need to upgrade to v.3 and up
<ali1234> from what?
<ali1234> and how many other packages have you "upgraded" this way?
<rafaelo> Potential PulseAudio version problem: PulseAudio is streaming with an excessive latency. Sound may be lost or quality degraded. To address that issue, upgrade the PulseAudio daemon to version 3.0, or disable the alternate sampling rate in its configuration.
<rafaelo> none packages
<ali1234> what software shows that message?
<rafaelo> i havent upgrade nothing outside repository
<rafaelo> vlcmedia
<rafaelo> is a better solution?
<ali1234> ok. and does it play properly anyway?
<rafaelo> no sound :(
<rafaelo> and this message
<shauno> what version of ubuntu are you using atm?  3 should be in raring (13.04, the current release)
<ali1234> the best thing to do is upgrade the whole system to raring
<ali1234> or, perhaps pulseaudio is in backports
<shauno> sorry, I'll be quiet :)  I was curious if he needed 4 bad enough to try saucy, but if 3 is sufficient, it's an easy answer
<rafaelo> the terms are difficulty for me, i cant understand
<ali1234> shauno: must be using 12.04, anything else would have offered to upgrade already
<rafaelo> can you tell me please a easy method to see my version?
<ali1234> of ubuntu? cat /etc/lsb-release
<rafaelo> what is the command in terminal?
<rafaelo> to see my version?
<ali1234> cat /etc/lsb-release
<rafaelo> THANK you -----   its 12.04
<rafaelo> i downloaded before 4 days from the official site
<ali1234> you could try 13.04 (as a live cd maybe) but i am not sure it will actually help
<ali1234> it might just be a missing codec, or something
#ubuntu-uk 2013-09-03
<rafaelo> i tried before 10 years to experiment with linux OSes  but the most common problem that i havent managed after much much reading is to install a programm.....  i.e. .tar.gr
<rafaelo> it is really pain..........
<daftykins> that's why you're not meant to install things that way ;)
<rafaelo> .deb  files are super
<rafaelo> one click
<daftykins> no that's wrong as well, they need to be repos else they'll get stuck
<rafaelo> for a newbe yes....  but i want to work permanent with ubuntu , so i must install programs, and i dont want to use wine
<rafaelo> btw i havent installed wine yet, but i have read so much for it
<rafaelo> do you thing that is better to use the last version of ubuntu>
<daftykins> surely you'd want to stick to a distributions best practices?
<rafaelo> 12.04 LTS i thought that is better for me
<rafaelo> do you know how disable the alternate sampling rate in  configuration?
<rafaelo> this is what is asking
<ali1234> you edit /etc/pulse/daemon.conf and comment out the line that says "alternate-sampling-rate"
<ali1234> then run pulseaudio -k
<ali1234> i bet it won't help though - it is probably already commented out anyway
<rafaelo> i will try
<ali1234> have you tried a different video player? such as totem or mplayer?
<rafaelo> no.   whichone to try?
<ali1234> both of them
<rafaelo> ok i try them
<ali1234> totem is the default one in ubuntu
<daftykins> hey guys, the silly form is down when i was attempting to help someone with a package to install to get wireless going
<daftykins> would it be linux-firmware-nonfree that might contain wireless drivers?
<daftykins> *forum
<ali1234> firmwares, yes
<ali1234> got a dmesg?
<ali1234> there will be an error about missing firmware, if that is the problem
<daftykins> it's the one where someone has no wireless with a broadcom 4311
<daftykins> there's a thread i keep going to to link people to but as the forum is down i can't cheat :(
<ali1234> yeah that has the b43 firmwares in it
<ali1234> /lib/firmware/b43/*
<daftykins> excellent :) thanks ali1234
<daftykins> i have sent the user to install + reboot
<ali1234> actually there is also linux-wlan-ng-firmware
<daftykins> hopefully having wired connected doesn't stop network manager from showing networks
<ali1234> it doesn't
<daftykins> good good :>
<ali1234> ah wlan-ng is for a bunch of different cards
<shauno> oh man.  gnome-shell on debian, in vmware.  for some reason the screen has picked 5120x3200.  obviously my laptop doesn't do this.  but vmware helpfully decided to scale it instead of refusing it
<shauno> the systems settings dialog is about the size of my thumbprint, and I look like a moleman trying to read it
<daftykins> shauno: is that down to not specifying a max monitor res in the VM's settings?
<shauno> I don't have such a setting
<shauno> I'm not complaining really, that's my fault for firing up gnome before the guest additions.  just not used to it going to that extreme.  usually you login and find yourself in 800x600 or something silly
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> ah in vmware workstation on Windows i get that beside the 'enable 3D' option in the VM config
<shauno> I just get a tick-box for whether or not it should lie to the guest about a 'retina' display (which I don't have)
<daftykins> ah, fusion?
<shauno> yeah
<daftykins> hmm that'd be pretty sweet, you could probably have lots of 1:1 VMs up beside one another at once on a retina display
<daftykins> well you know, a grid of 2x2 instead of 1
<shauno> I think I'll have to keep on fighting with that tomorrow.  it's way too late for this
<shauno> for some reason, the guest just won't receive a v4 address from my router
<shauno> which leaves me with a very, very small internet
<daftykins> attached to the bridge adapter?
<shauno> yeah
<daftykins> how quirky
<shauno> it's reaching the router fine because it's getting a v6 route through it
<shauno> I mean, I can get to google, facebook, etc
<shauno> but ipv4 still comes in handy, to put it mildly
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> that's very funky
<shauno> it is.  I have another debian VM that's having no problems at all
<shauno> oh well.  I finished what I came for.  I have a program that runs under osx & linux.  but the osx version has an unfortunate bug that breaks a couple of laws :/
<daftykins> :O breakin' the law, breakin' the law
<shauno> a small program to program to program frequencies into a 2m handheld.  for some reason, when I attach the cable to an osx host, it holds down the send key.  under a linux VM, it's fine.  and I'm not licenced, so going anywhere near the send key is a no-no
<daftykins> what's said device?
<shauno> baofeng something or other.  cheap as dirt, but it's fine for listening
<daftykins> i mean is it a radio of some form?
<shauno> oh, yeah, 2m/70cm amateur bands
<daftykins> ah :)
<shauno> which is why it's a pain to troubleshoot.  I can't just leave it jammed on send while I mess around.  the only reaction to seeing the light go red is to turn it off
<daftykins> hehe
<shauno> so I don't know if it's me, the cable, the software, etc.
<shauno> anyhow.  'night
<daftykins> nn sir o/
<MartijnVdS> Morning everyone!
<shauno> I Think that's still debatable at this point
<shauno> (and yes, I may have just given away the reason I'm a caffeine fiend)
<MartijnVdS> I just woke up at 6:01
<MartijnVdS> no caffeine required
<shauno> 5:30 after ~3 hours sleep, takes just a little coercion
<moodoo> morning all
<Myrtti> meh
<moodoo> wassup Myrtti
<Myrtti> nokia mobiles sold to ms. the other shoe fell.
<Myrtti> https://twitter.com/ericjackson/statuses/374737636990001152
<moodoo> a few billion dollars
<Myrtti> today is a good day for me to stay out of Facebook
<MartijnVdS> How unexpected.
<Myrtti> yeah.
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: you know Nokia people who won't like working for MS?
<Myrtti> couldn't see that coming in a billion years.
<Myrtti> MartijnVdS: I bloody hope so ;-)
<MartijnVdS> Time to boil some water.
<popey> oof.. http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTQ1MTU  didn't expect that
<Myrtti> what did you expect then
<Myrtti> that they'll write about your kitten :-P
<popey> expected my friends on G+ to go "oh, thanks for writing that blog post you promised a year ago" :D
<Myrtti> you're Internet Ubuntu famous
<Myrtti> tsk.
<Myrtti> they'll latch into anything
<shauno> it's a bit weird seeing them use your full name
<popey> it is
<popey> that made yesterday my busiest blog day for months, maybe years
<MartijnVdS> *drool* http://shop.lego.com/en-NL/Sopwith-Camel-10226
<dwatkins> Don't tempt me with such things, you evil user, MartijnVdS ;)
<shauno> that esata tower looks pretty swish
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: but.. lego!
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: precisely, I'm trying to cut down (for financial reasons, nothing more)
<AlanBell> dwatkins: I have a friend who is into lego, he wrote this http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/184533812X/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_til?tag=elsmorenet-21&camp=1406&creative=6394&linkCode=as1&creativeASIN=184533812X&adid=0YF7DVG4NEHZTJVRV4DH&&ref-refURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwarrenelsmore.com%2Fbrick-city%2F
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I have this one: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Forbidden-LEGO-Models-Parents-Against/dp/1593271379
<mungbean> MartijnVdS: i've made a sopwith: http://i.imgur.com/hA7X4a9.jpg
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: sopwith - port of the 1980's side-scrolling WWI dogfighting game
<MartijnVdS> apt-get install sopwith \o/
<dwatkins> AlanBell: ooh, neat
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: cool, how big is that IRL?
<mungbean> tiny...
<mungbean> 1/72 scale, let me find a matching pic
<mungbean> do you know how big these paint tinlets are? http://i.imgur.com/X4lkZxR.jpg
<dwatkins> AlanBell: I suspect my brother will get that, he really likes St Pancras station and Lego ;)
<SuperMatt> st pancras in lego form? are you people mad?
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: http://now-here-this.timeout.com/2013/05/08/in-pictures-the-incredible-lego-st-pancras-international-station/ ?
<SuperMatt> MADNESS!
<SuperMatt> I can't even find my way around inside, how the hell has he managed it in lego?!?
<AlanBell> yeah, that is Warren
<AlanBell> http://warrenelsmore.com/blog/ mixture of Lotus Notes stuff and bricks
<SuperMatt> oh I see
<SuperMatt> he likes lotus notes
<SuperMatt> that explains everything
<MartijnVdS> this explains everything
<moodoo> MartijnVdS: some people have too much time on their hands
 * AlanBell used to be a notes developer
<mungbean> lol
<mungbean> have you recovered?
<SuperMatt> pervert
<AlanBell> it is good stuff, it is NoSQL, like couchdb and mongodb before they invented the term
<mungbean> nurse, more pills
<AlanBell> and it is a rubbish email client, and people for some weird reason think it is an email program
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: a bit like people think Emacs is an editor.
<MartijnVdS> +how
<AlanBell> yeah, kinda :)
<AlanBell> well, actually probably more like if everyone thought emacs was a mail client
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I give you gnus.
<AlanBell> and flamed emacs for not being as good as thunderbird as a mail client
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I give you mutt users
<shauno> oi, what about mutt users?
<AlanBell> eventually IBM destroyed the partner ecosystem and community around it
<MartijnVdS> shauno: they complain a lot :P
<mungbean> isn't (al)pine better than mutt?
<dwatkins> that depends who you ask, mungbean ;)
<mungbean> yes, religious wars etc
<dwatkins> I used pine for years, really liked it, but later on I tried to use mutt and couldn't get to grips with it.
<shauno> we still use Notes.  I hear it's going to be phased out.  can't come soon enough
<dwatkins> on the flipside, I had a colleague who really liked mutt and used it all the time.
<mungbean> i know about 50 pine users
<dwatkins> We sometimes get issues reported by customers using Notes, mainly large corporations though.
<mungbean> they funny thing is, a few of them still login to a server and run it, rather than run it on their desktop, because thats what you had to do in the 80s
<shauno> I think we count as large now; somewhere between 160-180,000 heads, give or take an acquisition or two
<shauno> but Notes has grown into a monster.  no-one knows what's in which database anymore.  the only way to track down what you're looking for is to find someone over the age of 40 and rob their bookmarks
<AlanBell> yeah, that is how it is supposed to be used :)
<shauno> and this silly naming convention where everything I need should be on one of the servers that are named after fishes.  so you get strange conversations where people will be standing around asking if a galdr is a type of fish or not
<Myrtti> gah selective eyesight
<JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Welsh Rarebit Day! :-D
<Laney> posh cheese on toast
<SuperMatt> is it really?
<SuperMatt> source!
<SuperMatt> (or sauce)
<moodoo> yummy
<dwatkins> I never understood the name, perhaps it's Welsh.
<MartijnVdS> Were-rabbit Day?
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<popey> Yo!
<bigcalm> Ahoy!
<bigcalm> czajkowski: thanks for the card :)
<czajkowski> bigcalm: np sorry we cannot make it also, cant get the site to work :/
<bigcalm> Oh poo, means the db is down AGAIN!
<bigcalm> Why does mysql keep falling over on that server? :(
<hoover> Morning
<moodoo> morning morning
 * bigcalm installs supervisor
<popey> http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/22.png illustrates nicely what I was getting at about being locked into google.
<popey> from http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/09/balky-carriers-and-slow-oems-step-aside-google-is-defragging-android/
<mungbean> did canonical launchpad ever take off
<czajkowski> popey: aye tisannoying and when you uninstall some of those apps if you dont use them on each update they get reinstalled again
<czajkowski> mungbean: what do you mean ?
<mungbean> having serious discussions about which linux distro to roll out, resulting in around 500+ desktops
<TheOpenSourcerer> "Google has purposefully made every effort to make Android OS updates as boring as possible" << That's an assumption. Where's the evidence?
<mungbean> RPM based distros are v good for running spacewalk/satellite etc for deployment
<mungbean> unsure about enterprise level deployment of ubuntu and ongoing management
<mungbean> czajkowski: sorry i mean landscape, not launchpad
<czajkowski> :)
<czajkowski> popey: Laney I'm getting a PUG!!!!!!!
<AlanBell> gosh
<popey> oh dead
<popey> Look out chickens
<bigcalm> Oh my
<czajkowski> hopefully the pug wil get on with the hens
<AlanBell> chickens won't be bothered by a pug
<popey> mungbean: landscape is part of the support offering, so people automatically get it at some levels I believe
<czajkowski> and the hens have their nice run
<mungbean> i wonder what the pricing model is like for ubuntu advantage
<czajkowski> AlanBell: keep telling Jon that :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Will look a bit like filace then I'm sure ;-)
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: LOL!
<popey> mungbean: http://shop.canonical.com/index.php?cPath=41_38
<czajkowski> not getting the pug till nov till after the next 9 weeks travel where I'm on the road most weeks
<popey> "Looking for business volume licensing? Request a call.
<popey> "
<mungbean> wowzers. not gonna be cheap just to get lanscape
<Laney> czajkowski: nice!
<mungbean> considering we have experts  in house
<Laney> got pics?
<Laney> do the head and body belong to the same species?
<Laney> if not, not trying hard enough
<czajkowski> Laney: not getting it till november till I come back from NYC
<Laney> still enough time to do the splicing then
<czajkowski> wouldn't be fair to get  a puppy as september nad october I'm going to live at an airport
<czajkowski> Laney: you are not being let near the pug!
<czajkowski> puppy pug :D
<popey> mungbean: call and find out
<mungbean> it seems that way. then i get on a sales person's christmas card list :(
<bigcalm> Where are upstart scripts kept?
<Laney> brief scraping noise that sounded like it came from inside my laptop
<Laney> probably alright...
<Laney> bigcalm: /etc/init
<bigcalm> Oh
<mungbean> i've found foreman which looks like a good replacement for spacewalk
<bigcalm> Laney: thank you :)
<Laney> np
<bigcalm> My tv dongle didn't arrive in the post today :'(
<bigcalm> Woe is me
<dwatkins> I bought a TV dongle a while back, couldn't get it to work for ages, then I found a different app for OS X which Just Worked.
<bigcalm> Oh, this is an Android stick to plug into my TV
<brobostigon> chromecast ?
<dwatkins> ooh
<Myrtti> chromecast should come to Europe sooner
<Myrtti> I can't wait to throw my money at it
<brobostigon> its dead cheap aswell, i could find a few useful things to do with it.
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00B0FV4FE
<popey> sam would love one of them
<mungbean> 30 quid :-|
<popey> yeah, all minecraft merch is a bit spendy
<mungbean> minecraft lego must be Â£Â£
<bigcalm> brobostigon: no, http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00B18K4T2
<mungbean> http://shop.lego.com/en-US/Minecraft-21102
<brobostigon> bigcalm: i will point out, that is not chromecast, but yes, it does looks interesting.
<mungbean> $35 = Â£55
<bigcalm> brobostigon: I did say that it wasn't chrome cast
<mungbean> ah..."This is a very nice little set for all LEGO / Minecraft fans but do not get ripped off but paying well over the odds. This set is on sale at Â£34.99 at the LEGO Shop, "
<bigcalm> mungbean: that's an interesting exchange rate you have there
<brobostigon> bigcalm: ok sorry, i am not fully awake yet.
<mungbean> just amazon 3rd party thieves
<dwatkins> also, you get it from Lego in an awesome box, I'd wager (their plastic bags look ace, so I assume this is the case if you order from leco.com too)
<dwatkins> *lego.com
<mungbean> also lego shop at westfield stratford
 * dwatkins may have a bit of a reputation for being the local Lego expert in the office from having two phone cradles on his desk made from it
<dwatkins> yeah, there's one in Glasgow too, I think they sell individual parts (so you don't have to faff around on bricklink)
<popey> "There is a widely held belief in the wireless business that there will and should be a third option to Google and Apple." - http://gigaom.com/2013/09/03/why-i-think-the-7-2-billion-microsoft-nokia-deal-is-a-terrible-idea/
<popey> don't agree with his next conclusion of course ã
<davmor2> Morning all
 * czajkowski hugs davmor2 
<davmor2> czajkowski: thanks I needed that what the hell possessed me to have a week off :D
<Myrtti> oh man, play.spotify.com doesn't work :-(
<Laney> Myrtti: I found that
<Laney> clearing all of its cookies worked, at least for now
<czajkowski> davmor2: fun inbox and queues eh :)
<davmor2> czajkowski: yeah fun that's the word
<mungbean> why does 10.04 on this old pc work smoother and nicer than any release since?
<davmor2> mungbean: is it i386 or amd 64
<mungbean> davmor2: 32bit
<mungbean> running gnome2
<Myrtti> Laney: yeah, didn't work :-(
<Laney> :(
<Laney> I was considering cancelling when it broke for me
<Laney> the client has been busted for months too
<bigcalm> davmor2: you won't be coming to the LUG this weekend?
<davmor2> bigcalm: possibly not on Wednesday either
<bigcalm> Erm, week :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: didn't think so
<xnox> popey: i was trying to be subtle ;-) now it's all over G+ again =)
<dwatkins> having a vibrating watch makes it seem like I keep hitting thins when I move my arm every time I get an e-mail
 * bigcalm wonders if tv dongle will come via courier. Seems doubtful as I have no tracking information :/
<popey> \o/
<popey> xnox: Happy Birthday! :D
<popey> think of it as my little present to you
<Laney> the crushing weight of internet fame
<xnox> \o/ thanks =)
<davmor2> mungbean: right so part of the reason is might be the newer pae kernel on i386, another might be the graphics updates are stressing it more, or it is dropping to unity 2d which I found much slower, you might want to see if 64bit can run on it an if it can try the 64bit live cd and see if it runs any better
<xnox> Laney: i'm not crazy, I just perform this way ?! http://youtu.be/ss_BmTGv43M
<mungbean> davmor2: i think the reason is just that 10.04 didn't have bloat
<mungbean> and gnome was mature by then
<davmor2> mungbean: the other thing you can do is try xubuntu
<AlanBell> 13.10 is going to be a good release
<AlanBell> possibly if you turn off xmir
<mungbean> $release+1 is always going to be good
<davmor2> AlanBell: from what I've seen it is :)  even with xmir
<mungbean> after a couple of days on 12.04 with an uber fast PC i run out of RAM and CPU in no time
<mungbean> uptime 12:10:46 up 515 days, 20:58,  6 users,  load average: 0.46, 0.33, 0.35
<AlanBell> yeah, I am running xmir at the moment, it barfs frames in random order to the screen on secondary monitor
<davmor2> AlanBell: I'm about to start stress testing xmir bypass by migrating 900+ apps to saucy :D
<AlanBell> the best xmir can hope for is to be nearly as good as not running xmir
<AlanBell> davmor2: single screen or multi monitor?
<davmor2> AlanBell: single I have too many pcs to have more screens
<mungbean> i might revert to single monitor
<popey> mungbean: what insecure machine is that uptime from?
<mungbean> i thin kdouble monitor ssetup = resource intensive
<mungbean> popey: a desktop PC
<mungbean> all updates applied except kernel. would need to prove that 2.6.32-38 has remote exploits
<AlanBell> davmor2: yeah, single screen works fine, it is pretty much as good as not running it
<drussell> mungbean: if you're really struggling to get something smooth, I migrated all my older desktop/laptop machines to http://www.bodhilinux.com/
<drussell> mungbean: lowest of all resource consumption for a basic desktop (lower than xfce or lxde)
<drussell> mungbean: nice thing is that it's ubuntu based at the backend
<mungbean> maybe its just chrome and firefox are RAM beasts
<mungbean> i use elementary now in my quest for simple and fast OS
<davmor2> mungbean: all browser are ram beasts
<mungbean> since 2010 :(
<mungbean> used to be ok
<mungbean> or maybe it's the websites?
<mgdm> a bit of both
<directhex> aggressive caching
<mgdm> the average page size across a bunch of popular websites is of the order of a meg and a half
<mungbean> mgdm: you sure about that?
<mgdm> with loads of ad calls and AJAXy widgets and all that nonsense
<mgdm> mungbean: pretty sure, but that is the average. Some are lots bigger
<davmor2> mungbean: your firefox and chrome will auto update to newer versions so I doubt they are the original 2010 versions
<directhex> there's a good blog post on this, hang on
<directhex> http://vincentsanders.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/a-picture-is-worth-thousand-words.html
<mungbean> maybe wobbly windows make my pc *feel* faster... :P
<directhex> they do.
<mungbean> but there's no lag here
<mungbean> on my i5 i get chug chug grind splutter
<directhex> your system feels fastest when it's most responsive, and it feels responsive when there's a tangible response to your actions, with minimal delay
<mungbean> something has changed in recent kernel or DEs.
<directhex> generally an app which takes longer to finish, but has some kind of progress bar, is considered faster by the casual observer
<davmor2> mungbean: on the i5 what version are you running i386 or amd64
<mungbean> 64bit, with more RAM and better video card
<davmor2> mungbean: then I have no idea what you do then, if you are running bittorrent try turning it off, try not opening a million tabs, run some tests on a known lite site like duckduckgo/google/bing search pages
<mungbean> the fix is to install 10.04 :( i've had it on multiple machines. linux/ubuntu is getting hugely slow
<mungbean> could be a kernel scheduler problem
<davmor2> mungbean: no idea what you are on about for me unity is getting lighter and faster with each release, I can't wait for 14.10 when unity8 lands then it will be blistering quick
<AlanBell> is unity8 the mir native version?
<davmor2> AlanBell: it is, it is also the converged version so is the one under development on the phone currently so is really light
<AlanBell> cool, it would be nice to have some convergence of the marketing and the reality around the converged unity
<czajkowski> popey: davmor2 any idea why the EN is appearing up there on the right, it's for the keyboard I know, but no idea why or how it appeared and no idea how to remove it https://twitter.com/czajkowski/status/374858681415786497/photo/1
<popey> you can disable that
<popey> click it, choose last option, then in the dialog there's a tickbox
<czajkowski> ohhh
<czajkowski> no idea how it got there
<czajkowski> thanks
<czajkowski> :)
<Laney> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-keyboard/+bug/1217240
<davmor2> czajkowski: ah popey beat me to it
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1217240 in indicator-keyboard (Ubuntu) "Displaying even when there is only one layout to choose from" [Low,Confirmed]
<czajkowski> been bugging me
<czajkowski> thanks :)
<funkyHat> The gui that allowed for some remapping of keys seems to have disappeared
<czajkowski> The downside to adding ones phone number to a signature means I'm getting random calls going hi laura and I've zero context and all from withheld numnbers
<popey> heh, mine has been in my sig for years, never got a call as a result
<davmor2> funkyHat: System settingsâkeyboardâshorcuts tab?
<czajkowski> I've had 3 today alone
<czajkowski> it's handy just a bit odd - new :)
<czajkowski> shall be in london this week wed- friday if anyone is about
<funkyHat> davmor2: actually I'm at work so I can't check til later, but I did look at that last time and didn't spot it :()
<funkyHat> last night*
 * davmor2 reminds himself to stop giving czajkowski  number out instead of his own when he is asked for it :D
<czajkowski> davmor2: LOL
<funkyHat> davmor2: do you also introduce yourself as Laura?
<davmor2> funkyHat: no but I bet most of the calls czajkowski gets start is Dave there
<funkyHat> hahaha
<diddledan> gruff voice: "Dave? Hello Dave?" </league of gentlemen>
<davmor2> popey: Why do I get a dialogue for shutdown when I selected restart from the system menu why not just restart or cancel?
<funkyHat> Actually I prefer that
<davmor2> funkyHat: I like the confirmation, but why in this context driven world is the confirmation box not
<AlanBell> what do we all think about middle click paste? (which might be going at some point)
<diddledan> AlanBell: I love it
<diddledan> I don't want it to go anywhere!
<AlanBell> me too
<AlanBell> apparently there is a plan to change it so that it pops up a bubble with copy/paste options or something
<AlanBell> which means it will use the main clipboard I think
<diddledan> fudge
<diddledan> that sucks
<diddledan> I use it many times daily
<AlanBell> me too
<mungbean> mmm fudge
<diddledan> mungbean: if only your last name was "packer", I'd offer you some. </lame associative humour referencing cannibal the musical>
<davmor2> AlanBell: depends if I select paste and it pastes I'd be happy with that,  ie highlight text goto where I want to paste it middle click and press paste and it pastes.  Not ideal but would cork if I have to use the copy and paste options then they may as well do away with the option all together and just allow the right click to deal with it
<AlanBell> davmor2: as far as I can tell, you would have to highlight text, middle click on it, press the copy bubble (overwriting clipboard contents) then go where you want it to be, middle click and click the paste bubble
<AlanBell> which would paste with formatting rather than a text only paste
<davmor2> AlanBell: then that sucks
<TheOpenSourcerer> What is the rationale behind changing something that has worked since the year dot?
<mungbean> thanks youtube. massive pciture of miley cyrs makes my boss think i'm looking at smut
<mungbean> on my homepage no less
<popey> davmor2: ask mpt
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: because it is a feature that other operating systems don't have, so to catch up, Gnome want to go back
<AlanBell> as far as I can tell. Anyhow, they rolled back the commit for Gnome 3.10, and will ponder it for the next Gnome
<TheOpenSourcerer> So we lose the great feature if having 2 paste buffers
<TheOpenSourcerer> s\if\of
<MartijnVdS> Time to check out KDE I guess
<AlanBell> yeah, I think it is great having a text only secondary paste buffer
<popey> Well, there are apps that can make multiple paste buffers work
<diddledan> yeah, but it's built-in right now
<diddledan> making it optional means more hoops to jump
<AlanBell> and more inconsistency as different apps do different things with middle click
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's great the way it is. Unless you *know* how to use it it doesn't get in anyone's way...
<AlanBell> well apparently it does get in the way of people from windows who use middle click to scroll things
<diddledan> TheOpenSourcerer: exactly, and if you accidentally "discover" it by clicking the middle button you think to yourself "oh, that's cool, I'll remember that"
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: Well, Windows gets in my way when I use middle click to paste
<MartijnVdS> with its "scroll" thing
<TheOpenSourcerer> But Windows sucks and is on a downward spiral anyway. Who cares?
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: Nokia cares.
<AlanBell> dunno what the mac does
<AlanBell> they do have more than one mouse button these days don't they?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Doesn't have a "middle" button.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Only has one doesn't it?
<diddledan> we (as in the community) should not be bending over to accommodate paradigms that we've superceded
<TheOpenSourcerer> Archaic
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: officially they still only have the one
<diddledan> I use multibuttons on my mac
<TheOpenSourcerer> I've been able to configure & use Logitec mice with > 10 buttons for years and years without needed any new drivers or other apps.
<diddledan> but I'm missing middle-click-paste :-p
<TheOpenSourcerer> When evdev first appeared it was just full of awsomeness.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I saw a very interesting comment regarding MS/Nokia this morning. Who on earth is going to make WP devices now? Other than MS/Nokia of course?
<AlanBell> the phone market is too much "winner takes all" at the moment
<TheOpenSourcerer> Google/Android is a *very* different proposition. Apple know how to make stuff work and market it properly. MS is just a bag of fail outside of Enterprise.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ahh maybe that's it.
<TheOpenSourcerer> They become the new RIM ;-)
<AlanBell> someone could be the new RIM
<AlanBell> (that is the new, old RIM)
<diddledan> has rim been bought yet?
<mungbean> how can i reply to a gumtree mail?
<mungbean> doesn't seem to have a mail facvility like ebay
<AlanBell> Ubuntu Touch could be the new RIM, but I don't think they want that market
<davmor2> popey: I did :)
<diddledan> whatever ubuntu touch becomes, it'ld better not do a rimshot and bounce back :-p
<diddledan> ba dum tsh
<diddledan> :-p
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: joke.popey.com?
<diddledan> :-)
<MartijnVdS> they used to have http://rim.jobs/
<mungbean> ewwwwwwwwwww
<diddledan> is that sfw?
<diddledan> aah, phew
<mgdm> I don't believe it resolves any more, but it used to go to their jobs site
<diddledan> it can't find the server :-p
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: "This page is not available", but it used to link to the "Open positions" page on RIM's web site
<diddledan> lol
<mungbean> you guys are risky
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: that's what you get for living on the bleeding edge 8-)
<diddledan> when you refer to rim jobs and bleeding edge in the same sentence you're really risking it :-p
<diddledan> obviously I'm referring to RIMs lack of innovation <.<   >.>
<mungbean> argh
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: but.. businesses love it!
<MartijnVdS> or something
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: I guess it takes a certain sort ;-)
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: *something about a brown nose*
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> you _had_ to go there! :-p
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: it's the only reason I can think of for RIM to be popular in "the enterprise"
<diddledan> until NSA/Snowdon debacle businesses believed that their communications were encrypted on RIM's servers
<diddledan> same with the terrorists
<MartijnVdS> Didn't the deals with Saudi Arabia and the like disprove that theory?
<diddledan> yeah, good point. head-in-the-sand?
<diddledan> the saudi sand
<mungbean> lol http://i.imgur.com/JHgtVbp.jpg
<mungbean> dad birthdays
<mgdm> haha
<mungbean> note: i've never said this out loud at home
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: you can do that once they've moved out :P
<mungbean> what about the wife?
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: same.
<diddledan> lol
<mungbean> whats even more funny is the tradition i have with my brothers and sisters of buying birthday presents, now that its just degnereated into amazon voucher exchange
<mungbean> bit pointless
<diddledan> yup, same
<MartijnVdS> oh we just buy each other exotic beers
<mungbean> when do you stop?
<TheOpenSourcerer> In 2 days time I will have been married for 15 years!!!
<diddledan> although this year they clubbed together and bought me an "extreme rib experience"
<mungbean> anyone in guildford area this is an awesome deal http://www.gumtree.com/p/for-sale/doctor-who-daleks-in-manhattan-airfix/1029962073#photo-content
<mgdm> o_O
<mungbean> TheOpenSourcerer: happily?
<TheOpenSourcerer> mungbean: Yeah mostly.
<mungbean> \o/
<TheOpenSourcerer> If I said *every* day I'd be lying
<mungbean> my wife wants a 2 storey extension :S
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: tell her "But you said size doesn't matter!"
<TheOpenSourcerer> I've had a few moments where I just wanted to "get off the planet" and disappear for ever but they pass.
<mungbean> everybody wants to get off the planet for some space and lack of responsibility occiasionally
<diddledan> mungbean: 2 stories upwards or sidewards? :-p
<MartijnVdS> Isn't that what homesickness is? :P
<mungbean> an extension on the back
<mungbean> great. the doctor said the results have come back and there's no infection found. certainly doesn't look normal...
<mungbean> stupid toe
<diddledan> I've got a tooth that doesn't feel normal. it was fine until I had a filling at the weekend
<diddledan> now it hurts
<mungbean> sucks
<mungbean> had the same problem , used sensitive toothpaste and it sort of went away
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: new fillings can be weird for a while, but if it still hurts after several days, I'd call the dentist
<mungbean> still feels "different" but the dentist said the only way to find out is to take it out and look at it lol
<MartijnVdS> Mine uses some kind of plastic/epoxy/magic stuff now
<diddledan> I went NHS
<diddledan> can't afford fancy fillings
<diddledan> :-p
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: these are the only ones he uses, he never worked with the old metal ones
 * mungbean has  a gold crown
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: front tooth?
<mungbean> right at the back
<diddledan> mungbean: can I punch you and keep the profit?
<mungbean> its my favourite tooth now
<mungbean> she almost dropped it down my throat. would have been interetseting
<diddledan> lol
<mungbean> gold is a very warm and smooth metal
<diddledan> gold teeth rock
<mungbean> that tooth always feels smooth
<diddledan> when I win several meelion (either through the lottery or some kind of ransom) I'm going to replace all my teeth with gold ones :-p
<diddledan> then I'll be like JAWS in the bond movies
<diddledan> and I'll be able to bite through thick cables
<mungbean> anyone used foreman to deploy ubuntu?
<diddledan> nupe
<mungbean> essex shark :-\ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGGoOKjtQ5A
<directhex> headington shark :-\ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fo5s1AwDqzA
<bigcalm> Hi peeps :)
<bigcalm> In QueryBuilder, how do I correctly have more than one select statement?
<bigcalm> Arse
<diddledan> o_O
<bigcalm> Wrong window :)
<mungbean> wrong life
<bigcalm> mungbean: what?
<MartijnVdS> wrong language
<diddledan> wrong multiverse
<mungbean> diddledan wins
<diddledan> :-D
<diddledan> who's going to bash.org that then? :-p
<mgdm> I'll bash YOUR org. </dave2>
<diddledan> (yes, really, it's still on the net)
<mungbean> http://bash.org/?6951
<directhex> hm, press release
<MartijnVdS> directhex: where? what? how?
<mgdm> directhex: are you still at Collabora or are you elsewhere now?
<directhex> mgdm, i am still at collabora
<directhex> MartijnVdS, http://www.collabora.com/press/2013/09/collabora-productivity-targets-a-marketplace-of-one-billion-desktops.html
<mgdm> directhex: I think I'm mixing you up with resiak, then, who I think was and is no more?
<directhex> mgdm, yeah, resiak quit to do boring closed source rubbish for a big evil corp
<mungbean> dont say hackers in a press release!
<MartijnVdS> h4x0rs
<mgdm> directhex: booo
<bubu> hey guys, I have "0 clients:"
<bubu> how can I grep is for just the first number, so the 0
<diddledan> bubu: you need to advertise better
<bubu> hah
<bubu> ;)
<diddledan> it's a tough marketplace
<MartijnVdS> bubu: is it always a number? or do you only want the 0?
<bubu> i want just the number
<bubu> so the number before the clients:
<mgdm> bubu: echo '0 clients' | egrep -o '[0-9]+'
<mgdm> or something like that
<diddledan> \d+ clients
<bubu> even better would be 'unless number is 0, do bla'
<awilkins> Not sure \d works even in egrep
<bubu> great thanks
<MartijnVdS> pgrep \o/
<diddledan> who said it had to work in egrep? :-p
<MartijnVdS> Perl compatible regexes
<awilkins> Regex are great, but the lack of convergence is horrible
<diddledan> awilkins: much like javascript then
<awilkins> pgrep is for processes
<mgdm> diddledan: JS isn't that bad nowadays. Though the DOM and CSS are 'orrible abominations
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: ah, sorry. grep -P
<MartijnVdS> awilkins:   -P, --perl-regexp         PATROON is een reguliere Perl-expressie
<MartijnVdS> sorry for the Dutchness ;)
<dutchie> PATROOOOOOOOOOOOON
<diddledan> mgdm: yeah, I quite like javascript
<mungbean> argh i lost my epic bash history
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: the thing I hate most about js is that you can't add a trailing comma in a data structure
<directhex> patron? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYxO3Y-wOrM
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: so var x = { foo: 'bar', baz: 'quux', }; is not allowed
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: yeah, that's bitten me many times
<awilkins> Even worse, in IE that crashes but in everything else it just works silently
<awilkins> Hooray for JSlint / JShint
<mgdm> yes, eactly
<mgdm> drives me nuts because every other language is fine with it
<awilkins> huh?
<diddledan> really the only reason we complain about anything on the web is because of IE
<awilkins> Java ; no
<awilkins> Dunno about Pythin
<mgdm> s/language/language I use/
<dutchie> fine in py
<awilkins> But I'd expect C languages, C# etc, to have a shitfit
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: except SQL
<awilkins> Pardon my channel-inappropriate French
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: but you fix that by using prefixed commas
<diddledan> awilkins: poopfit?
<awilkins> Yes, I use prefix commas
<awilkins> In variable length lists
<mgdm> awilkins: C is fine with it
<mgdm> and prefixed commas look terrible, though I can understand why you'd use them
<mgdm> awilkins: (tested in gcc and clang)
<awilkins> I use prefixed commas mostly because the most common edit you do to a list like that then only generates a 1 line patch rather than a 2 line patch
<awilkins> Which makes for better behaviour WRT merges in VCS systems
<awilkins> I suppose for languages that imply a non-element when you terminate the list with a comma that's a moot point
<bubu> guys, in a bash script how could I do something like, wait until this command: "passenger-status --show=requests | grep clients | egrep -o '[0-9]+'" returns a 0, then move onto the next step
<bubu> not a 0 exit code, an actual 0
<diddledan> while command; do echo "useless echo which can be omitted, but shows each time the loop runs"; done
<diddledan> you might want while ! command; do
<diddledan> oh, not an exit code
<bubu> ja, not an exit code, it's actually a 0
<diddledan> in that case then you want `VAR=1; while [ $VAR != 0 ]; do VAR=$(command); done`
<diddledan> where command is the entirety of your passenger status line above
<bubu> thanks diddledan
<diddledan> I sense a disturbance in the foo - as if someone used bash on a million voices at once
<bubu> heh
<diddledan> oh god
<diddledan> I just caught myself doing the stereotypical video meme from several years ago of a kid dancing in his chair
<diddledan> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60og9gwKh1o
<diddledan> yeah, so that video was me just 5 minutes ago
<diddledan> complete with obesity <-- I'm a fatty!
<mungbean> that was ...
<mungbean> interesting
<mungbean> he is spitting image of our resident neckbeard
<diddledan> :-)
<diddledan> perhaps he _is_ your resident neckbeard
<bubu> diddledan: I have one more huge question favour to ask :D
<bubu> I need to run 'passenger-status --show=pool' until I can't grep 'spawning' from it's output i.e. it has stopped spawning
<mungbean> i've tried to be a fatty but find it impossible to gain weight
<mungbean> wii fit reckons my BMI is ideal but everyone else says i'm too thin :S
<diddledan> that one should be simpler - `while ! bash -c "passenger-status --show=pool | grep -e spawning"; do true; done`
<diddledan> where I've replaced the echo from the preivous while loop I gave you with "true" which just returns 0 and doesn't output anything
<bubu> awesome :D
<bubu> thanks!
<diddledan> these while loops are "tight loops" in that they'll use up all available processing power to run if allowed to. I forget whether bash has a sleep command but if it does it might be worth sleeping in the loop to ease the power requirements
<mgdm> sleep 1 = sleep for one second
<diddledan> thanks, mgdm
<bubu> jup
<bubu> I like that idea
<bubu> thanks guys :D
<diddledan> so yeah, just plop sleep 1 in the loop between do and done
<diddledan> dammit, I'm dancing again!
<bubu> lol
<bubu> diddledan: passenger-status --show=pool | grep -e spawning returns nothing at the moment as there is no 'spawning' being output
<bubu> so I would expect `while ! bash -c "passenger-status --show=pool | grep spawning"; do true; done`
<bubu> to return nothing too but it just hangs..
<bubu> is it in the loop I guess
<bubu> sorry to be a PITA :/
<diddledan> yeah, sounds like I got something wrong :-p
<bubu> my bash is aweful, better in ruby tbh
<bubu> lol
<bashrc> I'm not much of a bash wizard
<diddledan> ok, try without the bash -c "" wrapper around the if
<mgdm> interesting choice of nick, then :)
<diddledan> while ! passenger-status --show=pool | grep spawning
<bubu> hmmm
<diddledan> any joy?
<bubu> nope :(
<diddledan> rats
<bubu> it gives me a >
<bubu> as if the command isn't finished
<bubu> lol
<diddledan> aah
<mgdm> the ! will be a history thing, I suspect
<mgdm> which will confuse the issue
<diddledan> while ! passenger-status --show=pool | grep spawning; do echo I'm looping; sleep 1; done
<diddledan> that'll at least tell you it's looping rather than just breaking entirely
<bubu> gives me > still ...
<bubu> hmm
<diddledan> so it does
<diddledan> why is that I wonder
<diddledan> maybe mgdm is right
<bubu> how could I get around that?
<diddledan> aah
<diddledan> I'm <-- opens a quote that isn't closed again
<mungbean> also the pipe
<diddledan> while ! passenger-status --show=pool | grep spawning; do echo "I'm looping";sleep 1; done
<mungbean> is causing issues
<mgdm> also shouldn't passenger-status --showpool be in $() or at least `` ?
<diddledan> I've tested that and it definitely works locally
<mungbean> yep
<diddledan> mgdm: it doesn't need to be
<bubu> excellent, works thanks diddledan mgdm mungbean & co :)
<diddledan> do I get consultancy fees? :-p
<diddledan> is passenger the ruby-on-rails runner?
<mgdm> well, Ruby, yes, not specifically rails
<diddledan> aah
<diddledan> wait, microsoft have completely bought nokia's phone business?!
<diddledan> that's an interesting move
<diddledan> does that make them microkia?
<awilkins> Let's face it, they owned it the moment Elop sacked off the Linux phones
<diddledan> true
<shauno> I think it's quite funny.  Elop is ex-msft.  he's gone out, beat nokia to death, and now he's dragging the corpse back to the lion's den
<diddledan> lmao
<diddledan> that's a different slant on things :-p
<mungbean> burning platform was a lie
<diddledan> nokia had a good thing in owning qt but still they sold it off
<mungbean> nok ia value dropped 85% and they got it for half of the current value anyway
<mungbean> shareholders should be v angry
<mungbean> not after elopalypse came
<mungbean> then nothing non MS was worth having
<diddledan> indeed, it's a good ploy as shauno pointed out
<mungbean> surely not allowed though
<shauno> I'm curious who's move it was.  whether balmer's as crazy as we like to think, or if elop said he'd only come back if he could bring his new toys with him
<mungbean> after elop then it was always gonna happen
<diddledan> developers developers developers .. and phones
<mungbean> ballmer heard about banana phones
<diddledan> wait, the banana phone is real?!
<mungbean> i had one
<diddledan> what about the batphone?
<mungbean> shh
<diddledan> why did skippy the bush kangaroo just hop into my heaD?!
 * daftykins calls the RSPCA on diddledan 
<daftykins> put the wallaby down...
<directhex> pfft. nokia news is boring. what about the libreoffice news?
<daftykins> there's libre office news!?
<mungbean> to be fair, that PR had no discernible content
<mungbean> coll* are making some LO tools but you don't need to know details.
<directhex> basically selling enterprise support for LO to corps. suse technically were in that business - hence buying their team - but didn't really accept many contracts on it due to it not fitting their corporate model
<ig_sss> popey: how may i help you
 * Seeker` blinks
<diddledan> what exactly is suse/attachmate's business model these days?!
<ig_sss> popey: needed something in #design?
<directhex> diddledan, attachmate's model is selling an inferior putty to giant corps for infinity money
<directhex> diddledan, suse's is to sell SLES
<popey> ig_sss: heh, thats service!
<popey> chasing people down to other irc channels to see if they need something â»
<diddledan> putty as in a gooey substance or putty as in the ssh client?
<popey> ig_sss: nah, I joined #design on the wrong irc network, sorry â»
<directhex> diddledan, the latter
<ig_sss> ooh
<diddledan> aha
<davmor2> daftykins: I think you were going for <rolf> hu ha hu ha tie me kangaroo down sport </rolf>
<ig_sss> which other network has one?
<directhex> diddledan, attachmate's core business is terminal emulators
<popey> ig_sss: internal company one â»
<mungbean> rolf is off the menu now..
<awilkins> https://twitter.com/ltm/status/374750282460061696/photo/1
<diddledan> yeah, aparently rolf is a sexual predator now
<ig_sss> popey: ah ok
<ig_sss> alright later
<mungbean> alleged indecent assult
<popey> that twitter picture is ridiculous
<popey> totally US biassed
<mungbean> however, in terms of smartphones...
<diddledan> popey, still funny :-p
<mungbean> nokia don't have many loyal customers of high end devices
<diddledan> nokia don't have many^H^H^H^Hany high end devices period.
<popey> I have seen to nokia handsets in the wild in the last few months
<popey> one was owned by a nokia employee
<awilkins> My N900 was teh awesomes
<popey> the other was owned by a microsoft employee
<mungbean> awilkins: but they lost you as a customer right?
<popey> *two
<awilkins> My mum and my sister have Lumisa
<popey> I think my nephew has a nokia thing
<shauno> we have a bunch of them.  but they're the 5-10 "when it all goes wrong, it'll be cockroaches, twinkies and nokia handsets" variety.  for just that reason
<MartijnVdS> http://arstechnica.com/business/2013/09/paper-book-owners-can-soon-pick-up-e-book-versions-at-heavy-discount/
<shauno> er, 5-10yo
<awilkins> mungbean, Yeah, I kept using it long after it's deprecation and then got a Nexus 4
<diddledan> an ex colleague used to have one - she loved it
<mungbean> MartijnVdS: happy days
<mungbean> however, with autorip, *all* prices have gone up
<diddledan> autorip for books?>
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, I'd prefer it if you got a free ebook of every paper book you bought
<shauno> honestly, if nokia had gone android, I'd probably have gone that way.  they were the only brand I ever owned until smartphones
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: yeah, but this might be a step in the right direction
<awilkins> But some publishers have soo got their head up their butt about ebooks
<awilkins> Like Neal Stephenson's publisher
<awilkins> Took me a while when reading Anathem to work out that what I thought was techno-nuspeak was actually just OCR errors
<bigcalm> MySQL help needed again :) http://paste.ubuntu.com/6059327/ - this is returning the data I need, except I need meter_reading to be the most recent record, not the 1st created
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: it's a mix of both :)
<awilkins> And then I thought "WTH? They're OCRing paper books to make the eBook?!? Did they lose the source code?"
<ali1234> oh did microsoft FINALLY buy nokia then?
<shauno> bigcalm: then don't use "order by id", use order by .. reading_snap_shot_time ?
<ali1234> next: elop to replace ballmer
<awilkins> A bit like one of our data suppliers who maintain their enormous 1,100 page reference manual as Word and transcribe the changes manually to their data maintenance system :-S
<ali1234> this is the exact same trick he pulled with adobe and macromedia
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: and then? run that into the ground?
<mungbean> nobody in europe will ever hire a trojan CEO again.
<mungbean> if they have any balls
<ali1234> MartijnVdS: yes, he ran macromedia into theground so adobe could buy it
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: sure but who will buy MS
<mungbean> sounds like he's good at his job
<bigcalm> shauno: that only orders the result once it's been grouped
<popey> well nokia are allowed to make smartphones again in 2015
<popey> but not before
<mungbean> huh?
<popey> the agreement stops them making smartphones under the nokia name till then
<mungbean> a windows only deal?
<awilkins> bigcalm, ORDER BY id DESC
<dwatkins> a CEO with people hidden inside him? sounds cramped.
<popey> them being nokia
<mungbean> wow thats crazy
<MartijnVdS> oh the not-bought part of Nokia
<mgdm> awilkins: won't work
<awilkins> bigcalm, Presuming id is an incrementing autonumbered field
<mungbean> which bit?
<popey> they still get to make S30 and S40 phones (dumb/feature phones)
<mgdm> bigcalm: you probably need a self join
<awilkins> mgdm, Why not?
<popey> which Microsoft clearly aren't interested in
<awilkins> Ah, the meter reading time
<mgdm> awilkins: order by doesn't work on groups
<awilkins> mgdm, Curses
<popey> or Nokia could make smartphones based on some as yet decided software platform... .....
<ali1234> wasn't "microsoft buys nokia" on my list of 12 predications i did at new years?
<mgdm> awilkins: and by groups I mean joins with group by, etc
<popey> everyone predicted it
<mgdm> awilkins: been a pain in my side for about 3 months :)
<bigcalm> awilkins: the id is incrementing, but the reading_snap_shot_time is the field of interest. It may not relate to the order in which the records were created
<ali1234> no they didn't, actually
<ali1234> several mobile industry analysts told me it wouldn't happen
<mungbean> most people predicted as soon as they eloped
<ali1234> they also told mean valve would never make a console too
<shauno> I didn't expect something like this mid-ceo-transition
<ali1234> *me
<mgdm> bigcalm: you'll need a subselect, I think
<mungbean> what is the latest onthe valve console?
<bigcalm> mgdm: I did wonder, just not sure how
<mgdm> bigcalm: select ... left join (select thing from meter m)
<bigcalm> mgdm: and once I have the SQL working, I need to translate it into QueryBuilder :)
<popey> Jul 20 10:28:14 <ali1234>microsoft should have teamed up with RIM instead of nokia
<mgdm> bigcalm: blech
<diddledan> it seems pretty obvious that elop is headed into ballmer's chair once the big dude leaves
<bigcalm> Oh, okay
<popey> â»
<popey> thats the only line I found from last year
<ali1234> popey: no on g+
<popey> ah ok
<ali1234> popey: you did that "what are your predictions for 2013" post as uuk-podcast
<popey> ah yeah
<shauno> almost completely unrelated, I noticed the bbc use the term 'monkey boy' in a headline re: balmar.  didn't expect that
<diddledan> wait, what?!
<diddledan> citation totally required
<awilkins> Fair journalism, he's been called that by the tech community for ages
<shauno> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23815316
<bigcalm> LOL
<popey> just checked, none of us said it on the show
<awilkins> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23815316
<popey> haha tony said "Nokia will ditch Windows or go bust.
<awilkins> I'd say being bought out is akin to going bust
<shauno> just .. I remember the beeb being a bit more like my grandfather, not a bit more like me.  so it raised an eyebrow
<ali1234> i can't find that post now :(
<popey> I said "There will be an Ubuntu phone available to buy in shops in at least one large western country
<popey> hehe
<awilkins> There was the *promise* of one available to pre-order on the internet
<bigcalm> Insider knowledge (just not yet)
<awilkins> I'm not sure they ever realistically expected the Edge to get backed it's full quote
<awilkins> But it sure did make a point
<popey> we did hope it would
<awilkins> "Hey look, $14M dollars worth of people like the idea of a deskphonetab"
<Darael> awilkins: fourteen million dollars dollars worth?
<diddledan> I think that needs more clarification: "hey look, $14M dollars worth of people are willing to pay up-front for an unknown and unproven product because they like the idea of a deskphonetab, so imagine what that value will raise to once the product is proven!!!!!"
<awilkins> Darael, Was it more?
<awilkins> Can't recall
<popey> awilkins: pedant alert
<diddledan> ergh, and I did dollars dollars, too
<Darael> awilkins: I was more referring to the inclusion of both the dollar-sign and the word "dollars" because I'm a pedantic git.
<diddledan> I was copy+typing
<ali1234> https://plus.google.com/u/0/107381207738558467919/posts/8UULeoNsqkL <- found it
<shauno> the first step is being able to admit it
<ali1234> "July - Nokia finally gives up after consistently terrible Winows Phone  sales. Branding and patents sold to Microsoft. Everything else sold to  Huawei. Elop returns to Microsoft to head Windows Phone division."
<Darael> shauno: The second step is amplifying it to the point of self-parody.
<awilkins> Darael, pedantic git from the dept. of redundancy dept.
<Darael> That's the *redundant* dept. of redundancy dept., thankyouverymuch!
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: you missed at least one (there hasn't been a  Secure Boot key revocation, has there?) ;)
<bigcalm> mgdm: this is my non-working attempt: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6059365/
<ali1234> sure, most of them turned out to be wrong
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: though you did predict a phone for September :)
<awilkins> " As a result of getting ubuntu devs to port to nexus 7 with relatively less ram, cpu and storage, Raring will absolutely zoom along on a fast pc.ï»¿"
<mungbean> will it?
<awilkins> What actually happened : Google released a Nexus 7 with more RAM and CPU
<Azelphur> and a better screen
<Azelphur> and qi charging
<diddledan> why do I feel a pang of sadness about microsoft being in the dulldrums?
<diddledan> that article shauno linked made me feel :-(
<awilkins> Because it's nice to have an enemy?
<shauno> because it makes you feel old.  back in my day, etc etc
<awilkins> Quickens the blood and sharpens the nerves
<diddledan> I almost want to defend monkeyboy
<diddledan> but then I realise I've called him monkeyboy again
<awilkins> We have a project manager at work we call that
<awilkins> Quite independently evolved
<shauno> the term, or the species?
<awilkins> The term
<awilkins> I'm not sure how he evolved though
<awilkins> This is a man who's phone wallpaper is a finger pointing out with the caption "Who's the most awesome today then?"
<shauno> heh.  that reminds me of of when we found out our bosses' password hint was whos$product.  and his password, my$product
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> that's a good hint then
<awilkins> My favourite memory of bosses and passwords was the boss having his Administrator account on Windows have a blank password
<diddledan> aah joy
<shauno> that made the whole "no, they haven't fixed the password exposure bug at all .." conversation just that bit more cringeworthy
<awilkins> He caught CodeRed and saturated our entire outgoing bandwidth (dual-link ISDN) with spam
<awilkins> When he claimed his machine was secure I put a text file on the root of his C:\ drive that said "Bet you're glad I'm not a REAL hacker then"
<diddledan> I wonder if Sony UK have changed their network-wide admin password from <insert really simple one-word password that you only get in the daytime> yet?
<awilkins> We used to host our own CRM system as well so that little episode put it offline for a day
<shauno> this was the most sunday school of bugs.  a password field that was sent back to the browser as input value=therealpassword
<awilkins> Hahahahahah
<shauno> we told them, they disabled right click.  so then we started mailing people their passwords until it stopped being an issue
<awilkins> I think Huawei's router web UI does that, sends WPA keys to the page as plaintext
<diddledan> I think a lot of router web uis do that
<awilkins> For which I'm grateful when I visit Mum and need the wifi password
<diddledan> lol
<awilkins> They're in a password box though, so they are plaintext that appears as a line of ******
<awilkins> Quaint notions of security
<dwatkins> some VoiP systems which have a java-based front-end will only let you login to a page that uses HTTPS
<dwatkins> I mean only uses HTTP
<shauno> that reminds me of the "disabled" features on the model upc sent me.  they've just commented the fields out of the webui
<shauno> throw up web inspector, uncomment them, and they work just fine
<diddledan> my dad's wifi password is easily googleable
<popey> KiB Mem:   8056964 total,  6894708 used,  1162256 free,     6984 buffers
<popey> KiB Swap:  8267772 total,  5662956 used,  2604816 free,   876896 cached
<popey> Thanks chromium.
<dwatkins> I'm sure a lot of people don't bother changing their wifi router password
<awilkins> My old employer had their catalog web app running as the root account on the database server
<awilkins> And it was vulnerable to SQL injection
<awilkins> Was soo tempted to reset the prices on an nvidia card and buy opne
 * dwatkins shudders at the memories of SQL injections
<awilkins> popey, That bug where your Google account auth times out and if chromium is your default browser it keeps spamming about:blank pages is v.annoying
<popey> heh
<popey> yes
<popey> worse if you have 2fa
<diddledan> an in-house product at work uses \ to separate tag-type\tag-name - htere are several places where escaping goes 8 or more deep
<diddledan> so you've got SYSTAG\\\\\\\\tag-name
<diddledan> it can't be changed now without a lot of pain
<diddledan> so it's a case of which pain is worse?
<bigcalm> mgdm: thanks for the pointer on left join (select ...). I _think_ I have what I need now: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6059435/
<bigcalm> Next challange is to translate it into QueryBuilder :)
<mgdm> have fun with that :-)
<mgdm> that's part of the reason I don't use query builders, they're another syntax to learn on top of SQL
<bigcalm> mgdm: I like the abstraction
<shauno> is it really abstracted if you already wrote the SQL?
<shauno> at college I used to get told off for writing my code before my pseudocode.  it feels like you're doing the same thing
<diddledan> shauno: that's assbackwars
<diddledan> +d
<shauno> it works in my head though.  make it work, and then fill in the fluff
<diddledan> shauno: but technically when you're the developer and the analyst who cares when the pseudo code gets done?!
<diddledan> I never understood the point of pseudo code anyway
<awilkins> You should just replace pseudocode anyway
<awilkins> If your real code gets changed are you going to change the pseudocode to match it? no
<diddledan> surely it's up to the developer how to implement it, and not some idiot in an office who has no clue about programming
<davmor2> popey: you could always change back to firefox :D
<mgdm> pseudocode is pointless
<mgdm> writing tests first however is not
<awilkins> Indeed
<gordonjcp> pseudocode is just a wanky ressurection of flowcharts
<awilkins> That's the habit many of us need to cultivate better, self included
<mgdm> Argh! UML!
<shauno> well, in my mind, it was so the people that couldn't actually make it work, could still get some marks for showing where their head was.  like showing your "working out" in maths
<awilkins> "I need to do this... I need to write this test to prove it works... first"
<ali1234> gordonjcp: no, that is flowcharts
<ali1234> er, UML
<diddledan> TDD can be faked - if you want a certain response given certain input. just return that response to all input. done. the test passes :-)
<mgdm> diddledan: well yes, but if you do that, you deserve everything you get
<diddledan> lol
<awilkins> That's how you start anyway
<awilkins> You're supposed to just write something that passes the test
<awilkins> But then you make the test more interesting
<shauno> I really fail at design.  I tend to just write a bunch of empty functions with convincing looking names, and call that my design.  and then fill in the gaps until it stops breaking
<diddledan> shauno: I don't even do that :-)
<diddledan> I just make it stop breaking period.
<shauno> well you're a web developer.  you're special :p
<diddledan> who cares about function naming :-p
<bashrc> Design never survives contact with users.  You can start out with a very elegant looking system and have it turn into a hairball once it meets the real world.
<awilkins> Yeah, let's all just write things in Brainf**k
<diddledan> awilkins: now you're getting the idea!
<awilkins> Or even better M / MUMPS
<diddledan> bashrc: indeed
<awilkins> Oh, wait, they already did that with the most successful OSS electronic healthcare record in the USA :-S
<diddledan> the usa has a successful oss electronic healthcare record at all?
<diddledan> o_O
<awilkins> Well, VistA
<awilkins> If that counts
<diddledan> oooh, so that's why microsoft failed. they took an electronic healthcare record and rebranded it an operating system.
<awilkins> THey probably did write the Window 8 UI in MUMPS
<awilkins> http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/A_Case_of_the_MUMPS.aspx
<awilkins> http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/MUMPS-Madness.aspx
<awilkins> http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Revenge-of-MUMPS-Madness!.aspx
<awilkins> http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Avoiding-MUMPS--Arcadius.aspx
<awilkins> http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Diseased.aspx
<awilkins> I think I encountered MUMPS in one of my previous jobs and was lucky to escape alive
<shauno> I've had an odd 'career' path.  I encountered a rubber Nixon mask and a bullwhip in a previous job
<diddledan> wtf?!
<shauno> hotels.
<diddledan> that's some serious bongade
<diddledan> erm
<diddledan> bondage
<shauno> nah.  it wouldn't have been weird, but for the Nixon mask
<diddledan> you mean bullwhips are an every day occurrance?
<shauno> not everyday, just an eventuality
<diddledan> serialz?
<shauno> every job has these.  if you stay here long enough, you will run into ...
<shauno> eg, if you work in web dev long enough, you will run into someone who doesn't understand the difference between hiring you, and hiring his 12yo nephew
<diddledan> to be fair, there isn't much difference :-p
<shauno> anyway, back later.  I appear to have shrank my sofa covers, and now need a plan B
<diddledan> there's a big difference between hiring me and outsourcing to india, however
<diddledan> tata
<xnox> popey: look what you have done, everyone is now quoting the messenger (me) rather the slangasek who actually turned the question around at vUDS.... =)
<diddledan> I need to pull an "x locator" using google maps out of my bottom by tomorrow
<diddledan> annoyingly it needs to be in drupal which I know very little about
<ali1234> x locator?
<ali1234> i did a kml integration from a web service into google maps once
<diddledan> ali1234: in this case it's stores
<ali1234> hmm, that's a little more complex
<diddledan> I have zero data to work from, 'cos it's a POC
<ali1234> now i think about it i did google earth integration, not google maps
<diddledan> this looks promising, though I don't know how easy it'll be to theme: https://drupal.org/project/google_store_locator
<popey> xnox: yay, you're internet famous!
<diddledan> how does someone become "internet famous"?
<mgdm> become famous, on the internet.
<diddledan> i.e. how do I.. become internet famous
<diddledan> and will I get money from it?
<daftykins> diddledan: you might if you were a youtube sensation that got ad revenue
<xnox> popey: does that make you, my producer?!
<diddledan> I've got as much charisma as mark zuckerberg tho
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: so.. enough to get millions of people to use your website?
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: even though it's privacy hell?
<ali1234> xnox: publicist
<daftykins> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKOrkLxOBoY
<daftykins> mmm, android 4.4 - kitkat, guaranteed 4 bars
<daftykins> aww yeah
<mgdm> daftykins: /o\
<mgdm> daftykins: *slow clap*
<daftykins> ty sir
<diddledan> kitkat?
<MartijnVdS> yeah
<diddledan> lmao
<diddledan> lol  @ mega bites and chunky bite
<diddledan> that's actually awesome!
<daftykins> ;)
<daftykins> props to them i say
<ali1234> i tried to convince mer project they should name each release after a seafood dish eg fish fingers, prawn cocktail etc
<ali1234> but they wouldn't have it
<daftykins> killjoys :(
<diddledan> \o/ I got macports running on 10.9 mavericks
<mungbean> guys.
<mungbean> since upgrading from precise kernel to 12.04 and raring kernel , when i resume from suspend i don't get the lock screen, and wifi takes longer to resume. any ideas?
#ubuntu-uk 2013-09-04
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<SuperMatt> morning
<SuperMatt> I seem to be growing an appreciable amount of respect for SUSE
<SuperMatt> I've been told by many people before that it's terrible and that I shouldn't use it, but at every turn I see them doing some really great things
<popey> Laney: sorry to hear about bobby
<Laney> thanks popey
<Laney> he was pretty old
<DJones> Morning all
<dwatkins> ello
<JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Paperboy Day! :-D
<bigcalm> Oooo, memories of that game
<bigcalm> I was pants at it
<JamesTait> bigcalm, that was my first thought as well. :)
<JamesTait> bigcalm, although the source called it Newspaper Carrier Day.
<mungbean> what is badoo ?
<popey> bigcalm: seen someone has implemented paperboy with Occulus Rift + Kinect + exercise bike
<bigcalm> popey: sweet!
<mungbean> i saw that on click i think
<popey> yeah, me too
<mungbean> my son lets me watch it over lunch on saturday without a tantrum
<mungbean> usually he watches ninja warrior over lunch
<mungbean> but he saw angry birds on it once , and a robot , so he likes it now
<mungbean> is badoo a dating site?
<mungbean> or a facebook copy
<mungbean> getting messages from strange men via it
<DJones> Google search briungs up "Meet people on Badoo, Make new friends, Chat, Flirt" Sounds like a combination of facebook & dating
<DJones>      a combination of facebook & dating
<DJones> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Badoo
<mungbean> Badoo is the internet's most successful hook-up service, run from London by a secretive Russian serial entrepreneur who has refused to b
<mungbean> somehow i don't think i'll be checking my message from "Ross"
<mungbean> uses my full name...rather :S
<DJones> You never know, you could get a pleasant surprise
<mungbean> chances of that are approaching negative infinity
<mungbean> anyone know if 4965agn works in n mode on recent kernels yet?
<directhex> mungbean, yes! briefly!
<mungbean> :'( you mean 30 seconds...
<MartijnVdS> until you get some kind of weird packet?
<mungbean> i wonder why this has never been fixed?
<mungbean> have an n router and n card and can't use it
<MartijnVdS> the newer intel wifi cards do have working n
<MartijnVdS> it's like the older intel graphics cards that have bugs that were never fixed
<mungbean> that makes me sad
<davmor2> Morning all
<bigcalm> Morning davmor2
<directhex> intel want you to buy new things
<mungbean> perhaps i won't buy intel if the old things never get fixed
<directhex> related: security update to intel-microcode package also disables overclocking unless you have an authorized top of the range motherboard chipset
<Laney> yay, Good Beer Guide 2014 just came
<directhex> is it good?
<Laney> it's a huge list of pubs
<Laney> sounds good to me
<mungbean> is there a bad beer guide?
<bigcalm> Does it review the beer?
<BigRedS> directhex: fortunately you can just take it out of your initrd and not be affected
<Laney> nope
<directhex> BigRedS, then you have a security vuln :D
<mungbean> http://wiki.centos.org/Events/Dojo/London2013
<mungbean> Men socialize by insulting each other, but they don't mean it. Women socialize by complimenting each other, and they don't mean it either.
<mungbean> heh
<mungbean> some truth in that
<bigcalm> mungbean: mostly men at our LUG, and everybody insults everybody else
<bigcalm> It's going to be quiet without davmor2 tonight
<davmor2> bigcalm: Oi that's not on I insult every with equal contempt, not just people at the LUG, you ask my manager, popey and czajkowski they'll all confirm it :D
<davmor2> s/every/everyone
 * czajkowski stabs davmor2 hush you
<davmor2> bigcalm: see
<bigcalm> :)
<davmor2> moodoo: what's this about saluting work colleagues you only do that as you leave them forever :D
<DJones> Just listening to an interview with the bloke who paid for a twitter advert to complain about British Airways losing his luggage and not responding to normal tweets, just said he paid about $1000 for it, that seems a bit extreme
<mungbean> how many viewers got to see it?
<mgdm> "lots"
<mungbean> spending 1k to vent your rage is rather extreme
<DJones> mungbean: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23943480
<mungbean> i like to think maybe it saved a life
 * bigcalm returns with non-crackly sound having just edited the pulseaudio config!
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: 44100 vs 48000?
<TheOpenSourcerer> DJones: I always used to write the BA Exec club when I was a "frequent flyer". Whatever the content; praise or complaint, they *always* sent me a bottle of Veuve Cliquot :-D
<TheOpenSourcerer> Used to have bottles of the stuff in my rack
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: what a good idea :)
<DJones> Sounds good
<TheOpenSourcerer> Anyone been to La Manga recently?
<mralc> Hello Ubuntu UK
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: http://askubuntu.com/questions/157891/skype-and-vlc-sounds-sizzle-distorted-bad
<mungbean> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23953314
<mungbean> Plymouth woman 'woke up sounding Chinese'
<DJones> That could have been considerably worse eg, Manchester man woke up sounding Liverpudlian :)
<directhex> or anyone in the world waking up mancunian
<mgdm> There was one I saw recently about an American guy who woke up one day speaking Swedish
<popey> Ja!
<mgdm> maybe he got bitten by a mÃ¸Ã¸se
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: https://metacpan.org/module/Moose ?
<mgdm> If you get bitten by a moose, you start to understand Perl?
<mgdm> Blimey, there's one to avoid
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: at least it's not PHP
<Monotoko> I speak Chinese too, however I always "think" in English - I woke up one morning and couldn't remember any English for the life of me
<Monotoko> came back to me after a few minutes, but that was scary
<mgdm> MartijnVdS: I've already got that particular variant of brain damage
<directhex> thinking in a foreign language is super hard
<MartijnVdS> Monotoko: that would be weird
<MartijnVdS> directhex: I manage :P
<MartijnVdS> Once I'm in an English-speaking country for >2 days, I think in it.
<ali1234> that happens to me about once a month
<ali1234> it takes me about three hours to remember how to speak
<ali1234> no joke
<ali1234> i thought it was just normal?
<popey> nope
<Monotoko> ali1234: First time it'd happened, and last - I was trying to think how to request help, could think of the word in Chinese
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: Aphasia?
<Monotoko> but not English
<Monotoko> was going through my options with taking myself to a police station down the street and trying to request a translator
<Monotoko> but luckily it all came back
<ali1234> i don't speak any other languages...
<mgdm> ali1234: that is a bit weird
<shauno> ali1234: talk to yourself more often
<mungbean> i haven't spoken to anyone since 8am :(
<mungbean> i'm at work, and nobody else seems to have come in today
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: aww
<ali1234> basically i can only answer yes/no questions when in this state
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: I'd talk to a doctor about that.. if it happens often (it can be a symptom of a stroke)
<ali1234> i've always been this way since i was a kid
<mungbean> can you smell toast? then either someone is making toast or you are having a stroke
<mungbean> but does sound like brain damage yeah
<shauno> mungbean: I've never heard that one
<mungbean> olfactory hallucinations
<ali1234> it only happens after i wake up too, it doesn't just spontaneously happen when i'm walking down the street or something
<mungbean> although the internet wants to tell me it aint true anymore
<popey> sounds like you're still dreaming
<popey> friend of mine has that thing where he wakes up but is frozen stiff
<popey> he can see and is aware he's awake but can't move or speak
<mungbean> sleep paralysis?
<popey> ya
<popey> sounds related
<popey> </doctor_pope>
<mungbean> i dreamt i was mark owen from take that and i hadn't practised the song i had to sing
<shauno> (awkward silence)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: exactly
<mgdm> I get that sleep paralysis thing too, it's horrible
<popey> did you see the sleep programme last night?
<popey> people who sleep walk / snore / insomniacs / poor sleepers?
<mungbean> i also get a recurring dream situation where i walk into large toiets and the floor is really slippery/flooded and unhygeinic
<popey> was entertaining laughing at other people's misfortune, oh yes!
<mungbean> and i fall over or am worried about slipping over
<mungbean> apparently quite common
 * Dave2 stabs popey a bit
<popey> "Alan is currently making delivery number 102, you are delivery number 122."
<popey> "Alan is approximately 1 hour 15 minutes away from you."
<popey> \o/ DPD driver tracking
<directhex> popey, wow, that's a new feature
<popey> he's driven all around farnborough, nearly passed my house lots, but never dropped my parcel off
<directhex> popey, in theory they've got an optimized route to save petrol. see also http://www.businessinsider.com/ups-efficiency-secret-our-trucks-never-turn-left-2011-3
<popey> http://ubuntuone.com/2KK403DHqvERxvRMcwXe8N
<Monotoko> how would I go about adding another DNS server? just add the IP to allow-transfer on the master?
<popey> omg, the dude is now literally round the corner!
<DJones> Run round the corner and hijack the van
<popey> heh
<DJones> We have live vehicle tracking on our maintenance vans so we can let customers know how near the driver is to them
<DJones> From memory, it also flags up when they're speeding (or at least what speed they're doing) etc, although nobody looks at the logs for that
<Monotoko> we had one of those at my old company... it flagged up if they were going 71 on a moterway -.-
<Monotoko> I ended up changing it to +15
<ali1234> we had one of those too. i made it draw a little 3D van on google earth. nobody else at the company ever looked at it
<DJones> This could just have been a windup that I was told, supposedly the wife of one of the fitters came in wanting to know where he'd been on a day because she thought he was having an affair with somebody, they wouldn't tell her, but knowing how many of the fitters are making CSA payments it did sound feasable
<shauno> my uncle works for an outfit that go mad over vehicle tracking logs.  they'll get flagged for breaking too hard, too often, etc
<shauno> not just bad/inappropriate driving, but anything that's counter to a healthy mpg
<directhex> i hate people on the road like that
<directhex> they give us reckless prius drivers a bad name!
<shauno> apparently some of the diesel options over here get better milage than the prius
<directhex> well... that's complicated
<directhex> the workloads which diesels do well on and the workloads PE hybrids do well on are basically opposites
<directhex> i.e. diesels get amazing motorway MPG, prius sucks at motorways
<directhex> whereas prius does amazingly in stop-start traffic compared to a diesel
<mungbean> my seat ibiza tdi was great on motorway. my focus estate 2.0l tdci, not so good
<directhex> when the prius can't make use of the electric, it's just a heavy 1.5l or 1.8l (depending on age) petrol car
<mungbean> how much are prius?
<mungbean> and what's the round town mpg?
<directhex> new? from 22k
<directhex> quoted urban mpg is 72.4
<directhex> for the 3rd gen (i have 2nd gen)
<directhex> 56.5 for the 2nd gen for urban
 * davmor2 can't see popey at screwfix direct live somehow
<mungbean> seat ecomotive is far cheaper and comparable mpg
<directhex> mungbean, in a comparably sized car? prius is a large 5 door
<mungbean> the leon is similar size
<mungbean> but many Â£Â£ cheaper too
<mungbean> "74mpg is the official combined figure, but I think I did better than that. I drove from London to Staffordshire and back, and it cost me about 7p"
<davmor2> mungbean: what?  it's 110 miles to London from Birmingham if you only used a litre of fuel that's still 130-140 and that is one way so you must of used at least Â£3 as an estimate of a minimum distance travelled :P
<mungbean> its a quote from a review
<mungbean> what is true is that prius cost Â£7k more and comparable efficiency
<mungbean> maybe the 7k is the "apple tax"
<davmor2> to be honest all these hybrid cars are doing it wrong,  you make it electric from the ground up keep the fuel tank fill it with diesel and have it power an idleing/ondemand generator,  because of the small size and low speed of the generator you will use next to no fuel and have effectively and all electric car
<mgdm> that's how most warships work these days :-)
<mgdm> except the engines are a bit bigger...
<Gargoyle> The problem with that is TAX!
<mungbean> aaaah having a subwoofer under your desk is so much more satisfying than those piddly speakers, even at low volume
<xnox> czajkowski: hmm..... are looking for room-mates and/or sponsoring people for mongodb world? =)
<xnox> that hotel is nice!
<popey> "Alan is currently making delivery number 121, you are delivery number 122."
<popey> \o/
<BigRedS> popey: DPD?
<popey> ya
<popey> \o/ delivered
<czajkowski> xnox: not sure we could be
<czajkowski> just annouced today...
<mungbean> was the nexus 5 "leaked" in google vid ?
<mungbean> http://i.imgur.com/2OxaFzu.png
<directhex> LUCKY GOLDSTAR again?
<mungbean> allegedly
<mungbean> i'm pretty sure goldstar was considered a terrible brand in the 80s/90s
<mungbean> along with alba etc.
<directhex> which is why it's just "lg" now :p
<mungbean> saisho
<mungbean> matsui
<popey> amstrad â»
<mgdm> I always wondered why Alba were called that, since it's also Gaelic for Scotland
<mgdm> turns out it's the owner's name contracted a bit
<directhex> ariston!
<mungbean> amstrad were awful. and viglen.  whoever repeats that alan sugre is some techno tycoon is just repeating what some other numpty told them
<mungbean> matsui and saisho were dixons own brand
<mungbean> figures
<mungbean> goodmans, bush...
<directhex> grundig
<mungbean> pye
<mungbean> Alba plc, buying Bush in 1988, and then Goodmans in 1994.
<mungbean> lol
<mungbean> its like sports direct
<mungbean> buying lonsdale and kangol etc
<directhex> i hope there's a nexus 5 mini. nexus 4 is already too big
<mungbean> u only had it a week :P
<BigRedS> xscreensaver has some crazy ideas about what constitutes activity
<BigRedS> it doesn't seem to count scrolling, for example
<davmor2> Gargoyle: sorry for the delay,  it's not an issue for tax it would be taxed on emissions and mpg the same as all other cars which would likely be Â£0 or Â£30 at the most
<Gargoyle> davmor2: But the diesel fuel taxâ¦ is it running a generator or a car?
<davmor2> Gargoyle: you fill from the pump so you pay the standard rate, that's the point, feul companies are happy fuel is still being bought, eco warriors are happy there are less greenhouse gases, car manufacturers are happy as there are only minor alterations needed to a regular car etc etc
<mungbean> lol, rewatching the top gear nascar sucks clip
<dwatkins> BigRedS: I have to click, move the mouse, then click to stop GLMatrix
<Gargoyle> davmor2: But if there is even a hint that there's a legal loophole, you'll be able to buy the fuel a lot cheaper!
<davmor2> Gargoyle: you are putting fuel in a car the standard way it powers your car fullstop
<directhex> interesting. netgear NAS boxes use butterfs internally
<directhex> i hear popey's a fan of that
<popey> interesting indeed
<popey> http://www.anandtech.com/show/6835/readynas-100-300-and-500-series-reboots-netgears-smb-nas-lineup agrees
<directhex> i was going by http://www.netgear.com/business/products/storage/ReadyNAS-3220/RN322124E.aspx#two
<popey> nice
<directhex> http://www.synology.com/products/product.php?product_name=RS3413xs%2B&lang=uk#p_submenu - thoughts?
<dwatkins> I really like my Synology, no idea about the high-end boxen apart from the fact a friend uses a couple of them for his virtual machines.
<directhex> i like the SSD cache thing
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/dkf878qxl5mpyxa/PANO_20130904_161423.jpg
<daftykins> it's a very misty day down in the harbour
<daftykins> Condor Vitesse there loading up with tourists to ship off :>
<MartijnVdS> http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/09/2-45-cube-pc-runs-android-and-linux-on-cortex-a9-arm-chip/
<directhex> another dirt cheap freescale box?
<MartijnVdS> yup
<bigcalm> My TV stick hasn't arrived yet :(
<directhex> it's a lie btw. no video output on any kernel that isn't freescale's heavily patched one. SOC vendors suck
<directhex> i think they're on 3.2 now, not 2.6.31
 * davmor2 throws a stick threw bigcalms tv
<davmor2> through even
<MartijnVdS> bad davmor2!
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: what bigcalm  wanted a tv stick I was simply providing one :P
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: you should just have put glue on it
<bigcalm> I don't want a sticky stick
<MartijnVdS> no on the tv
<davmor2> bigcalm: so you stick to the tv
 * bigcalm grumbles at nginx and tracd
<MartijnVdS> haha trac
<bigcalm> How does one hup a process so that it restarts?
<bigcalm> kill -hup ?
<mgdm> kill -HUP $pid, yes
<bigcalm> Thanks
<mgdm> assuming the process is set up to expect that
<mgdm> not all are
<bigcalm> nginx?
<bigcalm> I would assume that it is
<mgdm> most likely
<mgdm> "SIGHUP Reload the configuration, launch new worker process(es) using this new configuration, while gracefully shutting down the old worker processes"
<bigcalm> Ah, I will try SIGHUP in the future
<mgdm> you send SIGHUP using kill -HUP
<bigcalm> Which is what I did then
<bigcalm> Found out that I can also nginx -s stop
<bigcalm> and then restart it
<mgdm> yeah, just saying you'd got it right ;)
<bigcalm> An SSL cert has expired for one of our domains (which we are ditching). Until I get the new system 100% working, I need to reallow HTTP access to this trac server. But my web browsers are constantly redirecting HTTP to HTTPS
<bigcalm> This is despite making changes to both nginx and trac
<bigcalm> mgdm: ah, goodo :)
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: restart your browser :)
<bigcalm> I'm wondering if it's my web browser
<mgdm> bigcalm: Using Chrome, or variant? Clear its cache
<mgdm> actually Firefox probably does that too, but I use it less
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: also, if you used HSTS, you'll fail
<bigcalm> mgdm: Chromium and Firefox
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: HSTS?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: HTTP Strict Transport Security
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: Is that where it's set up in the SSL cert?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: basically, an extra header in the HTTPS responses indicating to the browser that it can assume https:// for that host/domain for an indicated amount of time
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: usually several years :)
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTP_Strict_Transport_Security
 * bigcalm looks at clearing a cache
<MartijnVdS> no it's response headers
<bigcalm> Boss decided to implement "You cannot proceed because the website operator has requested heightened security for this domain."
<bigcalm> Good except when a client needs to get to the service
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: clients are always a problem
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: better to just go without
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: in an ideal world :)
<MartijnVdS> okay.. gym o'clock
<MartijnVdS> *check to see if podcasts have finished downloading*
<Myrtti> *snicker* https://mikepohjola.wordpress.com/2013/09/03/dear-mr-nokia/
<bigcalm> Myrtti: wonderful :)
<NET||abuse> hi folks, has anyone been able to get hotspot feature working ? i need to get my mobile device to be able to use my laptop wifi as it's AP, and then i can do charles proxy, or some other http(s) inspecting proxy tool
 * bigcalm slithers off to the LUG
<NET||abuse> the work wifi does let wireless connections hit wired nodes :( so everyone here on a macpoop air/pro uses ICS to get the mobiles to work
<daftykins> !ics
<lubotu3> If you want to share the internet connection of your Ubuntu machine with other machines in the network see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Internet/ConnectionSharing
<dwatkins> NET||abuse: bluetooth sharing may be another option
<NET||abuse> daftykins: yeh, i read that page trying to get it working but no joy, also the instructions havn't been updated in a year n' half, so probably not correct for 13.04
<daftykins> NET||abuse: you should probably explain in more detail how it didn't work
<NET||abuse> ok, just a year ao.
<NET||abuse> daftykins: well, i go thorugh the GUI method, i click setup the "Hotspot", it shows me some details, but nothing becomes visible on any device that's scanning for ssid's
<Neoti> Routers for sale. Â£10 per router +PnP. pm me for details -->> http://pastebin.com/tP4iWwPD
<daftykins> maybe use the CLI method then? :)
<NET||abuse> yeh, gonna try that now when i get home..
<NET||abuse> time to leave office, doggy needs his walk.
<daftykins> :>
<NET||abuse> cheers for the links
 * NET||abuse away
<ali1234> the new yahoo groups looks exactly like G+
<ali1234> this is actually good now
<ali1234> haters gonna hate etc
<daftykins> simpletons can't handle change
<popey> well, i would try it out but when I try to login to yahoo i get server error
<popey> https://edit.europe.yahoo.com/forgot. It may be down for maintenance or configured incorrectly.
<ali1234> i probably broke it when i logged in
<ali1234> i'm sure yahoo is still running on the same 486 from 1995
<popey> it also doesn't like my randomly generated 12 character password
<popey> Your password is weak. Please choose a stronger password.
<popey> WH#vAMfpI*7&%qcuaVn9Sfqn6czRLU5&
<popey> that was my password
<popey> also, too weak
<ali1234> that doesn't even make sense
<AlanBell> http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/explore/curiosity/ whut
<AlanBell> Sorry, the platform you are using is currently not supported.
<AlanBell> Unity supports the latest version of most browsers.
<MartijnVdS> the web plugin for Unity 3D doesn't support Linux, I think
<davmor2> popey: it starts with a capital letter :)
<mungbean> it contains a dictionary word "a"
<MartijnVdS> doesn't contain a unicode snowman
<mungbean> lol
<MartijnVdS> all passwords should have that
<mungbean> try barry123
<MartijnVdS> hi_obama_123!
<davmor2> god
<MartijnVdS> hi_god_123!?
<mungbean> some people(crazy ones) dont let u put non alphanmumeric stuffs in the passwd
<davmor2> all_your_P@55W0Â¬dz_belong_to_us
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: there's only one fix for that
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: but they abolished capital punishment
<mgdm> capital punishment is when you're not allowed to use uppercase
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: OR THE OPPOSITE, YOU HAVE TO READ EVERYTHING IN CAPS
<MartijnVdS> EVERYTHING YOU READ WILL BE UPPERCASED FIRST
<mgdm> heh
<mungbean> samsung watch :-|
<mungbean> i think watch tech is a bit lame atm
<MartijnVdS> Why would you need one
<MartijnVdS> phones exist
<MartijnVdS> and tell the time
<directhex> AlanBell, http://unity3d.com/webplayer
<mungbean> useless luxury items for PHB to wear
<MartijnVdS> directhex: it's confusing for Ubuntu users.
<mungbean> yay i won gta chinatown DS
<davmor2> mungbean: but these watches are so nice and they don't run out after 9 hours of use need taking off in order to be charged either :) http://shop.constantin-weisz.com/de/Herrenuhren/Herren-Automatik.html?xfb7d6=5e04e658bb2986011a646f031d2b8fea
<mungbean> more of a casio fw91 man myself, as is probably 50% of the room...
<mungbean> dont tell the NSA
 * popey clicks "Provide Feedback"
<mgdm> mungbean: F91W \o/
<popey> \o/ F91W
 * mgdm is wearing one right now
<mgdm> I think it was popey's fault that I got one, though
 * popey has 3
<popey> one is an A158WE though, so in disuise
<popey> +g
<mungbean> i wear one 24hrs, need no others
<popey> I have loads on my amazon wishlist
<mgdm> ah yes
<mgdm> popey: of f91ws?
<mungbean> osama was the most famous pin up model of the f91w
<daftykins> heh i remember the F91W
<daftykins> had one as a kid
<mungbean> why not now daftykins
<daftykins> watches are not permitted
<mgdm> how come?
<daftykins> my wrists remain free ^_^
<MartijnVdS> they could conceal spy cams!
<daftykins> i got way too neurotic constantly watching the time, back in school, so now i go without
<daftykins> plus carrying a phone that always has it instead
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: do you also not have an alarm? :)
<mungbean> essential wearing for anyone who catches a train
<mungbean> set to T+3 mins
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: maybe where you are.. trains go every 5-10 minutes here
<MartijnVdS> on most busy routes anyway
<mungbean> oh, 15 mins at bst here, often 30
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: ? yeah on the phone too :P
<MartijnVdS> sure but stations tend to be full of clocks :)
<mungbean> if i;m at the station then im ok
<daftykins> i'll bet he means for the frantic dash there
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: ah, I got rid of my alarm completely -- I just wake up when I feel like it (which is usually between 6 and 7)
<popey> You should get a Wasp T12 Speechtool
<popey> It's well weapon.
<mungbean> its leaving the house and the office
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: I have PCs at the house & office, and those have a clock in the corner of the screen ;)
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: I know that if I leave the office at :24, I can catch my :33 train easily ;)
<MartijnVdS> and if I miss it, I get the :36 one
<mungbean> i have interconnections etc
<mungbean> and if i need a wee on way home i need to know exactly how long i got
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: the :33 and :36 trains arrive at my interchange station at the same time :)
<daftykins> XD
<mungbean> i always leave it a bit tight
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: at the same platform (Across from each other)
<mungbean> stupid efficient netherlands ;)
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: Amsterdam -> Rotterdam train (via Den Haag) and Amsterdam -> Den Haag train :)
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: leave Amsterdam 5 minutes apart, arrive in Leiden at the same time 8-)
<daftykins> we are sorry, the 17:30 to <anywhere> is delayed, due to a goat on the tracks
<MartijnVdS> because, different routes
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: we just get suicidals on the tracks these days :|
<daftykins> :o
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: or, in the east, sometimes cows
<daftykins> suicidal cows :( what is the world coming to?
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: what would you do, if all you could do all do was stand in a field and eat grass?
<mungbean> http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/news/wing_commander_ken_wallis_dies_at_the_age_of_97_post_your_tributes_1_2365526#.Uibufs9KNFU.facebook
<MartijnVdS> \o/ Your LEGOÂ® order has shipped.
<mungbean> sopwith?
<MartijnVdS> Description: 21103 DeLorean tijdmachine V29
<mungbean> the wing commander is dead :(
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: The W C
<MartijnVdS> ?
<mungbean> is he still on lug^H^H^H uupc
<MartijnVdS> haven't heard from him in a while
 * brobostigon turns on the whitelist on his minecraft pe server, to be safe
<popey> ronope
<popey> brobostigon: manage to get it working?
<popey> ronope? boggle
<brobostigon> popey: with a pe server yes. not a normal server.
<popey> not the same thing?
<brobostigon> no.
<brobostigon> apparently not.
<brobostigon> if anyone does want a play, give me a shout, and i will get the details.
<MartijnVdS> RaycisCharles: can't you just keep one name, like everyone else?
<halt1> Hi all, I have a kind of basic question, if my user is part of more then one group, and I have a file which owned by the secondary group and can be edit just as if I'm part of the group, then i still should be able to edit the file or is this valid just for the primay group ?
<mgdm> if the file has 'group write' permission
<mgdm> chmod g+w filename
<halt1> mgdm: it does have 664 so yes it has but i still can't edit :S
<mgdm> halt1: Hmm. CAn you do 'groups $USER' and then 'ls -al /path/to/file' and put the results on paste.ubuntu.com ?
<halt1> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6064213/
<halt1> mgdm: any guees why I can't edit the file ?
<mgdm> halt1: weird
<Seeker`> halt1: how are you trying to edit it?
<halt1> nano
<halt1> nano file
<Seeker`> and what does it say?
<halt1> "[ Read 29 lines (Warning: No write permission) ]"
<popey> read only filesystem
 * popey tickles d0od 
<halt1> popey: other files which are located in the same folder but own by me is writeable
<popey> how odd
<halt1> should i log out and in maybe ?
<halt1> f*ck that's resolved it ..... thanks guys !
<halt1> have a good night bye
#ubuntu-uk 2013-09-05
<moodoo> davmor2: I was suluting my work mates as a wind up as I was not at work :p
<DJones> Morning
<MartijnVdS> let's all congratulate daubers_ today :)
<MartijnVdS> (assuming he didn't lie to Google twice)
<DJones> Happy birthday daubers_
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<popey> yo
<JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Be Late For Something Day! :-D
<bigcalm> I'm always late for work
<mungbean> lol i was uncharacteristically late for work today
<JamesTait> We were very early for school today.
<popey> my car broke down on the way to an appointment so I am technically late
<popey> and caused wifey to be late for work as she rescued me
<bigcalm> :(
<JamesTait> It's as if you all knew already!
<bigcalm> JamesTait: have you been late for something yet today?
<Laney> he seems earlier than usual, if anything
<bigcalm> Good point
<Laney> HEATHEN
<JamesTait> bigcalm, I haven't, yet.  I'll undoubtedly be late finishing work, though. I always am.
<JamesTait> Or so I'm told.
<bigcalm> Is midnight late?
<bigcalm> I need to cut down
<mungbean> moneysavingexpert emails have become lame since being bought out by moneycomparethesupermarket
<popey> moneysavingexpert was sold?
<mungbean> yes for big bucks
<mungbean> Martin Lewis sells MoneySavingExpert.com for Â£87m
<popey> gosh
<mungbean> you only spend that kind of money when you have intentions to fleece 1m people a week
<popey> i rarely visit, in fact i subscribed to one thread today
<popey> I dont like MSE or MSL
<mungbean> i just get the weekly email that used to be good
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<mungbean> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning mungbean
<brobostigon> CM 10.1.3 rc2 :)
<DJones> Is Martin Lewis any relation to Paul Lewis that presents Moneybox
<mungbean> and huey lewis who does the news
 * mungbean sorry
<DJones> Just wondered because of the similar topics
<mungbean> is moneybox an itv programme?
<mungbean> never heard of it
<brobostigon> radio4 :)
<mungbean> ah lol
<mungbean> don't really do radio
<brobostigon> bbc radio has some good satire, :D
<DJones> Apparently not related
<mungbean> i do daddy jukebox. my son says daddy please can i have track 8 then track 3 and then 15 on the other cd
<DJones> Although looking at one of Martins comments on moneysavingexpert "Nope. Though as a joke whenever I'm on Moneybox before hand I threaten to call him Dad"
<mungbean> fortunately he's learned to use the stereo at home
<mungbean> satire is a bit 1800s
<mungbean> interesting how the women are dressing for the weather they want and the men dressed for the weather it was when they left the house
<mungbean> evrybody look at this: http://iceland.adagios.org/iceland/
<bigcalm> mungbean: why, is Iceland sinking?
<mungbean> because your mum went there
<brobostigon> oh dear.
<mungbean> \o/
<mungbean> sorry i regressed to a teengager for a moment
<mungbean> i don't think UK could possibly know how many people are in A&E beds
<mungbean> yay for small countries
<jussi> seems appropriate time to post this :D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U53XWlGK4hY
<dwatkins> oh my
 * jussi smiles
<dwatkins> I think I'd rather watch people get fooled into thinking they were about to die in a meteor crater: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqTyPWgi5qM
<mungbean> about to reboot one node of stupid sun cluster :S
<mungbean> worst system ever
<bigcalm> jussi: pmsl
<DJones> mungbean: Thats quite easy to answer, how many A&E beds are there, every bed will probably be filled, so same figure for number of people in A&E beds (assuming there aren't any 2 to bed wards)
<mungbean> slot-001     PCIe 0      faulted   Sun Microsystems, Inc.  Dual 4x3Gb External SAS HBA (Rev C0)
<mungbean> :( sucks
<dwatkins> at least it knows (assuming it's correct), mungbean
<mungbean> gonna reboot to check
<dwatkins> I wish more of my hardware detected failure that clearly
<mungbean> SAS cards shouldn't just die like that
<mungbean> scared because this server i'm rebooting is not on site and not really mine
<funkyHat> So why risk getting the blame? Get someone else to reboot it ;P
<mungbean> who?
<mungbean> i'm covering for maternity leave :(
<mungbean> its been broken since i inherited it
<mungbean> mpt_check_task_mgt: Task 0x1 failed. I
<mungbean> ok this is bad
<mungbean> NOTICE: One or more I/O devices have been retired
<dwatkins> Can you virtualise it, mungbean? It might even be possible to seamlessly move its services over to a virtual server...
<mungbean> sun
<mungbean> it's on support contract. i just need to figure if thats the SAS card thats being used
 * dwatkins assumed there was some way of virtualising a native Sun machine (as opposed to Solaris x86, which we don't talk about)
<mungbean> its part of a 2node cluster server many TB of storage
<dwatkins> ah ok
<mungbean> unsure what is more flaky, their software or the hardware
<dwatkins> what kind of software? I assume you can't just install a Linux server and migrate the data, then.
<mungbean> its basically a flashy storage device running ZFS
<mungbean> but the sun firmware for it is shonky
<dwatkins> I've seen worse ;)
<mungbean> not for the moeny they paid
<mungbean> :(
<mungbean> MS excepted
<dwatkins> I've seen quite the range of storage servers, from the nightmarish to the "easily administered" which actually are (Panasas)
<mungbean> this is a 7410 storage server
<dwatkins> then again, when each storage blade has its own OS running on it, you expect it to be doing a lot
<mungbean> nice UI but spontaneous reboots if you fart near it
<dwatkins> ah yes, SGI made something fairly similar
<dwatkins> we had one customer called up asking how to fix their storage server, as a light had gone amber on it, and no-one who knew how to log in to it had worked for the company for about 8 years ;)
<dwatkins> I hope they blew air into it to clear the dust out every so often (although in a good server room, that shouldn't be an issue, I guess - probably something to do with static and filtered/clean air)
<diddledan> I need chocolate
<diddledan> chocolate always helps the day go faster
<mungbean> has lots in his drawer
<diddledan> I totally need one of those
<mungbean> twirl bites or cheapo value sainsburys choc
<mungbean> and choccy cookies
<dvrr> Hiiii
<popey> helloooo
<bigcalm> Waaaaaaaant sleeeeeeeeep
<diddledan> ergh, my old broadband provider wants a signed letter asking for termination of my account. but my printer won't work so I can't sign a printout
<mungbean> i don't get it. man comes to give quote for fence. no quote received, now not answering calls
<mungbean> is business really that good?
<mungbean> or are fence people just slack about plying their trade?
<directhex> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBFgsFeZCgU&feature=youtube_gdata_player
<dvrr> popey: 10 days back  i  installed ubuntu 12.10  it's working fine but  / partation usage 100 % space
<davmor2> Morning all
<popey> dvrr: yes, i recall
<mungbean> there's others besides popey who can help in here. (popey isn't paid to support this chan)
<popey> (neither is anyone else)
<dvrr> partation size / 130gb i give
<popey> I would run this...
<popey> sudo du -xB M --max-depth=2 / | sort -rn | head -n 15
<popey> which will give you a list of the top 15 directories eating space
<dvrr> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6065976/  open this  df -h
<mungbean> hmm
<directhex> mungbean, hire a pole. poles do their jobs. it's the british you need to be wary of
<mungbean> ls -la /
<mungbean> directhex: poles in britain, yeah
<mungbean> i bet there's loads of lazy poles in poland too
<directhex> in fairness my plumber is british and good
<diddledan> poles just stand around all day holding signs up afaict
<mungbean> it seems to be par for the course that many of these people are terrible at managing customers
<popey> dvrr: did you see what I suggested?
<dvrr> popey:  y / partation is full 100%  i did't copy  any data
<popey> 11:23:20 < popey> I would run this...
<popey> 11:24:03 < popey> sudo du -xB M --max-depth=2 / | sort -rn | head -n 15
<popey> 11:24:12 < popey> which will give you a list of the top 15 directories eating space
<popey> dvrr: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
<mungbean> .........................\o/
<mungbean> who was i talking to about DS games the other day? wondered if COD4 was any good on DS
<dvrr> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6066007/
<popey> DING DING DING
<popey> 134942M /root/oldga2
<popey> thats where your space went dvrr
<mungbean> there's also a nice gui for this too, what's it called?
<popey> i was assuming there was a gui problem
<popey> baobab
<popey> "Disk Usage Analyser"
<dvrr> i will check  oldga2
<dvrr> data
<mungbean> your /home is q small too
<mungbean> compared to the other dirs
<directhex> mungbean, stick to 2D on the DS
<mungbean> directhex: i have a DSI xl
<bigcalm> I just found that my home directory is holding 61GB of fun. Wonder if I should do something about that
<popey> my son stole my ds
<directhex> mungbean, which has the same CPU as the regular DS, but can run download-only DSi titles at a higher clock speed
<directhex> mungbean, the GPU is still made of cheese and useless for 3D
<mungbean> but is call of duty 4 any good on it?
<directhex> http://www.metacritic.com/game/ds/call-of-duty-4-modern-warfare - user reviews seem pretty low
<dvrr> ya i removed  oldga2 now usage 5% only
<bigcalm> 4G spotify cache, wow
<brobostigon> question, is there a way to lockdown android abit, so when my gf's son gets hold of my tablet, i can limit what he can break. ?
<popey> you can have multi users on android
<popey> thats what I do
<mungbean> from which version popey
<popey> 4.something
<brobostigon> popey: not actually tried that, i have 4.3 here, so it should work fine.
<popey> 4.3 maybe?
<popey> my nexus 7 has 4 profiles, one for each of us
<mungbean> directhex: of the user reviews, most were ok , but only 13 reviews so the troll who said 1 skewed it
<popey> that way the kids can install their apps and I dont have to see them
<brobostigon> i shall have to try it.
<popey> and they can keep their own high scores etc
<popey> you shall
<dvrr> oldga2   file size  600m   y it is  usage 100%
<dvrr> only 1 file is there
<popey> well there's something in there
<mungbean> what command are you typing
<directhex> brobostigon, that's actually a selling feature of WP8 - "kid's corner" lets you define a subset of apps with a private profile, and a different pin number, so you can hand locked phone to child, and they can unlock/play with no risk to your stuff
<dvrr> no
<bigcalm> dvrr: sudo ls -lha /root/oldga2
<mungbean> dvrr what command are you typing
<popey> sudo du -hs /root/oldga2
<mungbean> i wish ds save games could be locked/backed
<brobostigon> directhex: wow, did not know that, research required.
<mungbean> my son onccasionally would delete all save games of mario 64ds
<popey> use an r4 or something, backup the saves to your pc
<mungbean> "why did you do that?" "i don't know"
<mungbean> hmm i have an r4
<mungbean> but you would have to backup the game
<mungbean> with an orig game its not v possible to backup the save games
<dvrr> i removed  oldga2 file
<popey> http://projectpokemon.org/forums/showthread.php?12405-A-tool-to-backup-HG-SS-saves mungbean
<popey> dunno if that works
<mungbean> cheers i might revisit this then
<mungbean> first i have gta to play :D
<ali1234> what does HG/SS mean?
<mungbean> saved state i presume
<mungbean> heart gold and soul silver
<mungbean> pokemon games
<mungbean> i've probably lost the r4 now :(
<mungbean> This tool allows you to backup and restore saves from commercial Nintendo handheld game cartridges.
<mungbean> Requirements: - A DLDI-capable Flash Card - A Nintendo DS Phat/Lite. DSi and 3DS are not supported!
<popey> bummer
<mungbean> find a child with a DS...profit
<mungbean> my wife almost cried when all the stars she'd collected were wiped
<mungbean> cos she had to play thorugh again and unlock stuff for the munchkin
<mungbean> http://clippingmagic.com/  Instantly Remove The Background From Your Images
<DJones> Listening to a programme about a member of the INternational Space Orchestra, am most disappointed to find that they don't perform in space
<bigcalm> Yet?
<DJones> True, maybe in future
<mungbean> wasn't there an international colouring contest on the moon?
<mungbean> sofia pamela?
<mungbean> lucia pamela
<mungbean> http://www.intoouterspace.com/
<bigcalm> My android tv stick still hasn't arrived. Starting to wonder if it'll ever get here. Just checked the Amazon market seller's profile, they are in HK
<bigcalm> Doh
 * funkyHat has been meaning to order one of those
<funkyHat> bigcalm: which one did you go for?
<bigcalm> funkyHat: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00B18K4T2
<mungbean> mk802 are generally ok
<bigcalm> funkyHat: I'll let you know if it's any good, if it ever gets here
<mungbean> i need a telly that works with it tho
<funkyHat> bigcalm: did you go for a remote thingy for it too?
<diddledan> do any android sticks work with old tellies that don't do hd?
<bigcalm> funkyHat: not yet. Might do
<bigcalm> diddledan: you need HDMI and a USB port (for power)
<mungbean> diddledan: dunno, but would prob look a bit nasty
<mungbean> i have spare vga monitors at home too
<diddledan> I'm thinking purely for video purposes
<mungbean> and a composite->vga convertor box
<brobostigon> cool, just got a bbc iplayer android update, that allows for official downloading of progs.
<mungbean> how long for?
<brobostigon> 30days i think still applies.
<mungbean> mehhhhhhh
<brobostigon> will still use get-iplayer, :)
<mungbean> mind you, i generally delete after i watch stuff
<mungbean> so could be useful on the tablet
<mungbean> except needing 50 different apps to watch all the channels is a pain, and youtube tends to help that
<mungbean> has anyone looked at docker?
<DJones> brobostigon: Thanks for the heads up on iplayer, even better it works with android 4.3
<brobostigon> DJones: yep :), youre welcome.
<mungbean> https://www.docker.io/
<mungbean> Docker is an open-source project to easily create lightweight, portable, self-sufficient containers from any application. The same container that a developer builds and tests on a laptop can run at scale, in production, on VMs, bare metal, OpenStack clusters, public clouds and more.
<popey> ali1234: oddly G+ won't let me +1 your bitcoin comment
<popey> or indeed any comment on that post
<directhex> insert bitcoins to continue
<ali1234> I heard G+ also buries any post where you mention bitcoins
<mungbean> :-|
<mungbean> conspiracy theory
<davmor2> popey: you sure you are logged in :D  and is it a community post if so you have to join the community it has a little popup that might be being blocked
<ali1234> what i'm really confused about is this: http://deals.ebay.com/blog/whats-the-deal-with-bitcoins-anyway/
<popey> davmor2: its my post
<mungbean> popey: i tried +1 somebodys comment, it said ther's a problem
<popey> it does the +1 then errors and rolls it back
<davmor2> popey: oh you stand no chance then :)
<popey> yet I can leave a comment
<popey> https://plus.google.com/u/0/109365858706205035322/posts/Pd7Srhk9WxY
<davmor2> popey: I've never had that happen, I have had it no display a popup for a community as the popup blocker stopped it :)
<mungbean> i get a #503 trying to +1 someone
<bigcalm> Ditto
<mungbean> spookily that person just endorsed me out fo the blue on linkedin
<mungbean> just after i tried to click :P
<mungbean> mungbean was endorsed for g+
<popey> ah good, not just me then
<davmor2> popey: same here
<davmor2> popey: google hates you ;)
<popey> join the club
<mungbean> http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/09/03/have-the-bbc-just-scheduled-a-missing-episode-of-dads-army/
<davmor2> popey: what you have lots of social media companies hating you then?
<ali1234> +1 broken for everyone everywhere by the looks of it
<mungbean> is this ubuntu phone? looks horrific photo http://i.imgur.com/pHiQeUo.png
<popey> yup
<popey> not a great choice of background there
<mungbean> when did that sheppey crash happen?
<mungbean> thats unbelievable
<mungbean> everybody clearly goign too fast
<bigcalm> ?
<mungbean> http://uk.news.yahoo.com/sheppey-car-crash-100-vehicles-kent-bridge-motorists-drivers-collision-094450208.html#tc7mgAp
<bigcalm> Ok
<gordonjcp> too fast for the conditions...
<mungbean> visibiltiy down to 20yds and everybody flying along
<mungbean> so many cars they are having to write numbers on them
<mungbean> must be so scary see a lorry possibly squeezing you against a wall
<popey> too fast / too close
<mungbean> alan hansen paid Â£40k per match of the day show
<popey> first day of kids back to school.. guess some people forgot how to drive over thesummer
<popey> http://imgur.com/gallery/SbS78Sh czajkowski
<mungbean> why are tv people vilified like bankers?
<mungbean> ^people^people not
<bigcalm> popey: "trying"
<popey> tv people?
<mungbean> BBC presenters namely
<davmor2> popey: you saying czajkowski is a cute little dog, or was it more that she likes pugs and you happened upon that image?
<popey> yes
<davmor2> popey: I like a man that lives on the edge :D  Oh and lives in hitting range of czajkowski :D
<davmor2> mungbean: to be honest I've seen three lorries consentena a car before now and the woman in the car not make it so I would just be gobsmacked at being alive to be honest
<ali1234> hmm so i have to conclude that the ebay blog has been hacked
<ali1234> not surprising really, it's wordpress after all
<popey> looks okay here
<ali1234> http://deals.ebay.com/blog/whats-the-deal-with-bitcoins-anyway/
<diddledan> why would that indicate hackage?
<popey> oh, thats not the blog i was reading
<popey> http://blog.ebay.com/
<ali1234> diddledan: well first of all nearly that whole page is inside an iframe that leads to a different domain
<ali1234> secondly it's not linked from anywhere else at all that i can see
<diddledan> well that _would_ indicate it then
<czajkowski> popey: :)
<ali1234> thirdly it says "what do you think?" but botht he video and the page have comments off (the rest of the blog allows comments)
<Azelphur> https://www.dropbox.com/s/unxdto1fet81zkb/2013-09-05%2011.16.43.jpg bought and paid for with bitcoins \o/
<ali1234> fourthly video uploaded by a unknown user with no other videos
<Azelphur> who needs Â£ now ;)
<ali1234> and fifth the blog is wordpress so it's probably riddled with vulnerabilities
<ali1234> diddledan: how's that?
<diddledan> very convincing :-)
<diddledan> I can't say I looked any deeper than the content
<ali1234> weirdly though there is this: http://deals.ebay.com/blog/your-last-minute-thanksgiving-feast-for-10-all-for-less-than-75/
<ali1234> the image on that page is hosted on the same external domain as the bitcoin page
<ali1234> however, that could also have been done by the hacker in order to try to make the bitcoin page look more credible
<ali1234> Azelphur: how did that work then?
<Azelphur> ali1234: http://cryptodechange.com :)
<ali1234> what is it?
<ali1234> that site has a distinct lack of information like where they delivery to and so on
<Azelphur> ali1234: it's a tesco frontend
<Azelphur> so, pretty much everywhere
<ali1234> meaning what?
<Azelphur> meaning they deliver to anywhere that tesco delivers to
<ali1234> so you can buy anything from tescos?
<Azelphur> yup
<ali1234> how much does it cost for delivery?
<Azelphur> Â£5
<ali1234> Â£5
<ali1234> not bad
<Azelphur> indeed
<Azelphur> ali1234: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3832397/screenshots/2013/Sep/2013-09-04-213233_982x1011_scrot.png
<bigcalm> Woop! Putting mysqld into supervisor has paid off. Danm thing fell over 4 hours ago, supervisor restart it, my websites continue to work :)
<diddledan> bigcalm: doesn't upstart do that for you?
<bigcalm> diddledan: I've yet to see that happen
<bigcalm> This is the only server I have ever had mysqld fall over on a regular basis. Lots of trying to fix it (months on and off), just going with what works - supervisor
<bigcalm> popey: good job that laptop video used dubstep for the music. Meant that I wasn't jarred out of my current Spotify playlist :)
<mgdm> bigcalm: does the error log tell you anything about why it died? OOM perhaps?
<bigcalm> mgdm: nope
<mgdm> bigcalm: weird
<bigcalm> mgdm: the error log is always empty
<bigcalm> mgdm: this is in syslog though
<bigcalm> Sep  5 09:08:54 banana kernel: Out of memory: Kill process 16090 (mysqld) score 90 or sacrifice child
<bigcalm> Sep  5 09:08:54 banana kernel: Killed process 16090 (mysqld) total-vm:325844kB, anon-rss:26944kB, file-rss:0kB
<diddledan> sounds like you ran out of memory
<Azelphur> hah, banana kernel.
<diddledan> it's only coincidence that it killed mysqld
<bigcalm> Oooo, looking higher up I can see:
<bigcalm> Sep  5 09:08:54 banana kernel: nginx invoked oom-killer: gfp_mask=0x201da, order=0, oom_adj=0, oom_score_adj=0
<bigcalm> diddledan: it's always mysqld that gets killed
<bigcalm> Azelphur: I was amused by that as well :)
<diddledan> bigcalm: on OOM the kernel will kill any process that tries to allocate more memory
<diddledan> so you need to work out what's eating up all your goats
<bigcalm> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6066310/
<diddledan> wolf mayhaps?
<bigcalm> What's wolf?
<diddledan> or an ogre?
<diddledan> s/goats/rams/ >.<
<bigcalm> Heh
<mungbean> mysqltop
<diddledan> it's a furry creature with big teef
<bigcalm> :P
<bigcalm> mungbean: ?
<mungbean> there's a few top commands for mysql that might help
<Azelphur> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2412099/Sheppey-crash-100-vehicles-pile-misty-conditions-Kent.html destroy all the cars \o/
<mgdm> bigcalm: http://hackmysql.com/mysqlreport is quite simple to parse
<mgdm> Azelphur: cheering on a massive accident, where people probably got injured? Tasteless, much?
<diddledan> mgdm: only 200 got injured
<mungbean> the quote was "crashing continued for 10 mins"
<Azelphur> mgdm: mostly minor injuries, and poking fun at terrible things is a human norm
<DJones> diddledan: They chjanged that and reduced it to only 8 injured last time I saw
<mungbean> even if for 1 minute is horrific
<Azelphur> mgdm: plus, apparently it was all down to poor driving, so my sympathy is low
<mungbean> my dad was onthe motorway and there was a crash. he put on his brakes and avoided collision, however a coach turned on its side and he could see it in his mirrors, crushing cars, 1...2...3....getting closer...just stopped in time
<bigcalm> mgdm: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6066330/ is very nice to look at, but I don't know what I'm looking for :)
<mgdm> Azelphur: none of that makes any difference, IMO
 * Azelphur shrugs
<diddledan> has this been photoshopped, or is there really a new car that can travel underground? http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/09/05/article-2412099-1BA26A45000005DC-946_964x685.jpg
<ali1234> diddledan: firemen cut the froof off
<bigcalm> diddledan: again tasteless
<mgdm> bigcalm: maybe drop the innodb_buffer_pool_size - lines 78 and 79 imply you can fit most of your data in 27MB of RAM, whereas you have 128MB set for it - try 32?
<bigcalm> Okay, ya
<bigcalm> ta
<mgdm> bigcalm: SELECT * FROM disclaimer;
<bigcalm> Hehe
<mungbean> anyone looking for job in london atm?
 * bigcalm scratches his head. Why can't I find innodb_buffer_pool_size in any config files?
<mungbean> i suppose this chan aint the best as we only have about 30 regulars , the rest are lurkers
<popey> linuxjobs list?
<mgdm> bigcalm: it needs to go under [mysqld] in /etc/my.cnf, it might not already be there
<mungbean> yeah, tried that before, very little response except for a weirdo
<mgdm> bigcalm: http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/4.1/en/innodb-parameters.html
<mungbean> *may not be weird
<diddledan> mungbean: was the weirdo me?
<diddledan> <-- veery weird
<bigcalm> Ah, just found it in foo_my.cnf
<mungbean> nope, was a few yrs ago
<diddledan> foo?
<bigcalm> Yep, foo
<mungbean> i can't unsee that numa numa vids you showed me diddledan
<diddledan> lol, I thought everyone had seen that
<mungbean> 50M
<mungbean> plus one
<mungbean> its like the star wars kid
<mungbean> http://mashable.com/2013/05/10/star-wars-kid-interview-cyberbullying/
<mgdm> bigcalm: is the OOMing server running WP by any chance?
<bigcalm> Finally got it down to be 32MB. I'm going to keep mysqld in supervisor for a while though
<popey> heh
<bigcalm> mgdm: yes
<popey> Boom!
<popey> That's like the 6th machine I've heard OOM with wordpress
<bigcalm> I've never had a problem with it before
<mgdm> bigcalm: you're the second person in two days I've given that advice to (the other was an under-RAMed VM, with an unconfigured MySQL, and no static cache plugins in WP)
<bigcalm> One difference is that my father is using a CRM plugin for his WP site on my server
<mgdm> get WP-SuperCache or whatever it is on there
<mgdm> and APC
 * bigcalm loops
<popey> and switch from apache to lighttpd
<popey> I have had exactly zero OOMs since I switched from apache to lighttpd
<bigcalm> php-apc is already installed
<mgdm> popey: I think he's on nginx
<bigcalm> mgdm: nope, only gitlab is on nginx
<mgdm> ah
<bigcalm> mgdm: everything else is using Apache
<mgdm> then make nginx do WP too :-)
<bigcalm> Ug
<bigcalm> http://wordpress.org/plugins/wp-super-cache/installation/ - not a install and forget kind of plugin :)
<bigcalm> I'll poke it another time
<mgdm> WP is not an install and forget kind of software
<bigcalm> It is for my dad, as I have to manage it
<popey> wordpress.com is -> that way
<bigcalm> Hehe
<bigcalm> Atempting
<bigcalm> -A
<davmor2> bigcalm: falls off the edge of the earth following popey 's directions
<bigcalm> joker.com finally allow payments by PayPal. That makes my life a lot easier
<bigcalm> Saves me from having to go down stairs for my wallet
<DJones> A bit offtopic, but can anybody recommend an audiobook player for android
<DJones> Looking at Smart Audiobook player or Audible
<mungbean> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/09/04/unicode_of_death_crash/
<mungbean> i'd love to see a million applefans cry out in anguish as a unicode gets delivered over twitter and crashes their idevice
<mungbean> popey: which ios you on?
<popey> 6.something on iphone, 5.something on ipad
<mungbean> you wanna crash your device?
<directhex> doesn't crash device, crashes offending app
<mungbean> oh , shame
<mungbean> https://twitter.com/codeblue87/status/372954308397920256
<directhex> if offending app is low level enough, that's fine
<mungbean> ^^ see what that does
<popey> 6.1.3
<directhex> but e.g. on twitter it just crashes twitter client
<DJones> I've lost count of the number of klines I've seen on freenode for people posting the exploit
<directhex> even though it's funny
<mungbean> i've seen it in comments but didnt' realise what it was till now
<mungbean> probably on omgubuntu
<mungbean> kids eh
<directhex> there was one a while ago, you typed something like BEGINBOTSERVER on irc and anyone with one brand of antivirus would be disconnected
<Seeker`> apparently the guy that designed the walkie talkie building also designed http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/09/29/las_vegas_death_ray/
<Seeker`> start key logger too
<directhex> Seeker`, that was it
<popey> heh, yeah, that crashes chrome here
<directhex> http://labs.phurix.net/articles/startkeylogger
 * Seeker` wonders how many clients let you join #20,000 now
<directhex> comma isn't valid in irc rfc, is it?
<Seeker`> yes
<Seeker`> comma seperated list of channels
<dwatkins> 16:05 -%- Channel #000 created Thu Jan 28 17:23:00 2010
<Seeker`> ah
<Seeker`> used to be that for a lot of clients, #20,000 would mkae you part all channels
<dwatkins> I'm using irssi
<dwatkins> I'm glad it didn't, although I do have my config saved.
<dwatkins> I'm pretty sure restarting irssi would bring back most channels for me that I care to be in.
<Seeker`> I figure that if i lose channels and can't remember them I probably don't need to be there :P
<popey> i remember when jono joined #asdf and got klined instantly
<popey> dunno which network that was
<mungbean> whats adfs?
<mungbean> asdf
<mungbean> nobody there :(
<Laney> NO
<mungbean> jono (n=jono@ubuntu/member/jono) has joined #boycottnovel
<DJones> It obviously wasn't freenode that jono get klined from then, given that mungbean must have joined it & didn't get klined
<mungbean> it was an empty chan
<Seeker`> DJones: or they removed the kline
<DJones> Seeker`: Could be, I'm sure theres still some channels floating round that do that
<davmor2> mungbean: can't of been empty or you wouldn't of seen the join notice :P
<mungbean> schordingers chan
<mungbean> can i just pick a chan of my choosing and op it if noone else is there?
<mungbean> #badgersarethebest
<popey> you will auto op if it doesnt exist
<diddledan> unless it's registered with chanserv
<mungbean> wondered if freenode was as anarchic as ircnet,say
<DJones> mungbean: http://blog.freenode.net/2008/04/registering-a-channel-on-freenode/
<dwatkins> there's always blitzed...
<popey> \o/ blitzed
<popey> still limping along
<dwatkins> I'm on there all the time
<dwatkins> never had any problems with it
<popey> its got way fewer servers than it used to
<mungbean> argh i hate doing that
<bigcalm> Did you join 0 ?
<mungbean> accidentally /wc then accidentally quit irssi
<bigcalm> /wc?
<mungbean> its a pain sinec my config isn't exactly seamless
<DJones> window close
<bigcalm> Ah
<mungbean> should just run irssi and it connects to all my nets
<mungbean> but no
<dwatkins> mungbean: just join them all and do a /save
<dwatkins> iirc that's how irssi does it
<dwatkins> ymmv, brbbbq
<mungbean> oh sweet.
<mungbean> TIL
<dwatkins> woot
<mungbean> i connect to a bouncer on ircnet so may not work correctly but hey
<dwatkins> I use linux little enough, I'm normally the one doing the learning around here
<dwatkins> ah ok, you can include sequential commands in the config if necessary
<dwatkins> e.g. /msg nickserv identify password
<mungbean> hmm shoulda backed up my old config
<dwatkins> directhex: reading your link, the best part is that the guy from the Washington Post expected a reply at 3:30am local time for the blogger, clearly didn't do his research very well
<dwatkins> then again, there are plenty of people around on #ubuntu-offtopic when I get in to work in the morning who may well be in the US, East or West.
<mungbean> whats the usual topic in offtopic?
<dwatkins> the actual topic, or what's actually discussed?
<mungbean> the latter
<dwatkins> can be pretty much anything
<dwatkins> 08:29 < SunStar> so yeah uh... dunno. my AR928 works great
<dwatkins> random hardware, custom kernels, why people who just joined #ubuntu a few hours ago are being told to shut up ;)
<mungbean> ok, not politics then...good
<dwatkins> I think that's not allowed
<mungbean> nothing worse than US politics
<dwatkins> see the response from its bot in DM:
<dwatkins> 16:43 <dwatkins> !politics
<dwatkins> 16:43 <ubottu> Please take political discussion to ##politics. Thank you!
<dwatkins> there's also !o4o, which is much longer
<mungbean> "n the development of DES, NSA convinced IBM that a reduced key size was sufficient; indirectly assisted in the development of the S-box structures; and certified that the final DES algorithm was, to the best of their knowledge, free from any statistical or mathematical weakness"
<mungbean> we all know how that turned out
<funkyHat> "convinced" heh
<funkyHat> I also like "indirectly assisted"
<mungbean> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Encryption_Standard
<mungbean> more details
<mungbean> NSA worked closely with IBM to strengthen the algorithm against all except brute force attacks and to strengthen substitution tables, called S-boxes. Conversely, NSA tried to convince IBM to reduce the length of the key from 64 to 48 bits. Ultimately they compromised on a 56-bit ke
<dwatkins> I always wondered why it wasn't a power of 2
<mungbean> i seem to remember we needed permission to run a 3DES VPN to our NY office
<xnox> OMG! Celine Dion can pull off powerful hits! http://youtu.be/4f5KuRXtjeE
<xnox> New single!
<bigcalm> Bloody auto tune. _THE_ worst thing ever created by man
<dwatkins> bigcalm: I thought everyone used it, though
<MartijnVdS> almost everyone
<bigcalm> Hate hate hate
<xnox> adele as well
<xnox> ?
<MartijnVdS> A dell
<Seeker`> $Â£%^Â£$%&"$%&" telemarketers
<Seeker`> "I'd like to speak to you about your recent car accident"
<zleap> lol
<MartijnVdS> Seeker`: "Which one? I've had several"
<zleap> is that related to the massiver pile up this morning
<Seeker`> MartijnVdS: third such call in 3 days. Next time I'm going to go with "wow, it must have been a bad one, I can't even remember having a car accident. I guess that means I've got amnesia"
<diddledan> I wondered why the telemarketer wouldn't sell me any home improvements for the tent I told her I live in
<diddledan> when someone phones and asks for the phone bill payer, tell them it's you. when they ask which provider you're with, tell them you don't have a phone. that one confuses them somewhat
<Seeker`> she told me she got my number from when I last renewed my car insurance online
<Seeker`> I've never had car insurance in my name
<diddledan> does that mean you drive illegally? :-p
<Seeker`> no, just that I'm named on someone elses insurance
<diddledan> hehe
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm, popey: If you're looking for music: Andy Cato - Times & Places
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm, popey: (assuming you both liked Akufen - My Way)
<popey> where is exobuzz when you need him
<MartijnVdS> exobuzz?
<exobuzz> hello ?
<popey> yay
<popey> pm
<xnox> czajkowski: I cannot thank you more for your CC contributions!
<xnox> czajkowski: it's a true blessing!
<davmor2> xnox: Don't do that czajkowski has to get her head through doorways now without damaging them
<davmor2> :D
<czajkowski> :p
<davmor2> czajkowski: It's a service to get you through doorways, and your welcome ;)
<mR0rI0n> hello
<daftykins> hi
<mR0rI0n> can you possibly help me with a kernel issue
<daftykins> ask away
<mR0rI0n> how would i update a kernel from 3.0 to 3.1
<daftykins> what are you running, version wise and is it fully updated + upgraded?
<mR0rI0n> ubuntu and as far as i know it is not
<mR0rI0n> the auto update has failed to pop up where would i look to find updates
<daftykins> which version of ubuntu?
<mR0rI0n> good question
<daftykins> are you in it now?
<mR0rI0n> have i mentioned im new to linux
<mR0rI0n> yes
<daftykins> ok if you'd like to find and run the terminal application
<daftykins> type in this command: "cat /etc/issue"
<daftykins> that should report which version you have
<mR0rI0n> says no such file in directory
<diddledan> without quotes
<mR0rI0n> i didnt use the quotes
<diddledan> ok, in that case then.. eek
<popey> lsb_release -a
<daftykins> ok try "cat /etc/lsb-release" instead
<popey> that also tells you what version
<daftykins> or what popey said
<diddledan> lsb_release doesn't usually tell me anything helpful - I think I used it with something like -r tho
<daftykins> ;)
<popey> 19:22:24 < popey> lsb_release -a
<mR0rI0n> it says 13.4
<popey> diddledan: I said -a for a reason â»
<daftykins> ok, latest version then
<mR0rI0n> 13.04
<daftykins> mR0rI0n: what happens when you try to run the update manager?
<popey> mR0rI0n: yay, so you are probably up to date
<popey> mR0rI0n: what if you run "uname -a"
<popey> it will tell you what kernel version you're running
<mR0rI0n> ok then would there be another reason my comptuer goes into panic mode
<popey> define panic mode?
<mR0rI0n> 3.8.0-25-generic #37-Ubuntu SMP Thu Jun 6 20:47:30 UTC 2013 i686 i686 i686 GNU/Linux
<mR0rI0n> computer fails to do anything and is locked in  terminal
<popey> what video card do you have?
<mR0rI0n> i take it the  3.8.0 is the kernel...and what ever is in ths shitty netbook
<diddledan> intel no doubt
<mR0rI0n> its a hp mini netbook 110 1000 so probably
<diddledan> have you ever had graphics operating such as during the install?
<mR0rI0n> what do you mean by graphics operating
<diddledan> pretty pictures instead of the terminal
<popey> hang on. what state is it in now?
<mR0rI0n> i use youtube alot
<popey> right. so you have a graphical desktop on the screen?>
<popey> but sometimes it locks up?
<mR0rI0n> yes i have a graphical desktop on the screen
<diddledan> oh I must have misread then
<mR0rI0n> yes it locks up occasionlly
<ali1234> do you have a nvidia card?
<popey> unlikely in a netbook
<mR0rI0n> no
<MartijnVdS> intel?
<mR0rI0n> yes
<MartijnVdS> popey: there was a generation of netbooks with Nvidia ion I think
<popey> not his tho
<diddledan> nvidia ion was actually pretty powerful
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: except even its windows drivers are crashy as.. something crashy
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: a bridge in Kent.
<diddledan> lol
<mR0rI0n> the box says intel
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: it's not just me that's tasteless then? :-p
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: nah, it's never "too soon"
<daftykins> something happened in Kent with a bridge? :)
<popey> lots of things
<popey> in quick succession
<diddledan> about 100 things
<diddledan> :-D
<MartijnVdS> because keeping distance and slowing down in fog are Not Done
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: it's britain
<diddledan> speed limits are advisory only, also
<mR0rI0n> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPZrEyof5Rc
<mR0rI0n> that th bridge you were talking about
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: "I'd slow down, but the guy behind me might be in a hurry" ?
<MartijnVdS> !family | mR0rI0n
<MartijnVdS> bot doesn't understand "family"?
<mR0rI0n> what it was all blurred it might as well be rated g
<diddledan> since when has the uk had a G rating?
<diddledan> G = gratuitous?
<mR0rI0n> hell if i know im american this room was just less crowded and more polite
<diddledan> :-)
<diddledan> kill the infidel!
 * MartijnVdS fires up the drone
<mR0rI0n> gotta catch me first
<diddledan> wait, did that just get me onto an NSA watchlist?
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> did I upset?
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: nope, it just moved you a bit higher on it
<diddledan> phew
<diddledan> as long as it's business as normal, I don't mind
<diddledan> why do I have a serious lack of monitors/displays?
<diddledan> I have two plus a laptop
<daftykins> how is that a lack?
<diddledan> or maybe two laptops if I count work's
<diddledan> daftykins: because I have four PCs and I like to dual-monitor my mac
<daftykins> that doesn't seem to answer my query sir
<diddledan> 1 monitor vs 4 pcs == lack of displays
<daftykins> you need to input switch better
<MartijnVdS> or just buy a few more screens
<diddledan> I like the way MartijnVdS thinks
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: but your wallet doesn't
<diddledan> indeed
<MartijnVdS> mine doesn't like me either :(
<daftykins> i don't, he's killing mother nature :(
<diddledan> mother nature died years ago. we're living on a carcasse now
<daftykins> oh, that makes it alright? ok then
<diddledan> sure, even if we stop destroying the everything there's no way it'll recover again 'cos it's already dead
<diddledan> we've already reached negative-return, so now we need to go all the way around the moon to get back again
<MartijnVdS> wut.. @ PHP advisory
<MartijnVdS> It was discovered that PHP did not properly handle certificates with NULL
<MartijnVdS> characters in the Subject Alternative Name field.
<MartijnVdS> Didn't we fix that in everything years ago?
<diddledan> only unlike 13, we don't have a square CO2 filter, a sock, and a tube of toothpaste to be able to keep us sustained for the elongated journey
<diddledan> i.e. we're royally held together by a screw-threaded nail
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: they rewrote php
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: again?
<daftykins> 0o
<diddledan> yeah, I think each point-release is counted as a complete rewrite
<ali1234> where is the documentation for indicators?
<mgdm> diddledan: not even mildly true
<mgdm> That sounds like a bug in OpenSSL, I wonder if there was a bundled version
<diddledan> mgdm: which bit?
<mgdm> 19:49 < diddledan> MartijnVdS: they rewrote php
<mgdm> unless youw ere joking
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: it's a bug in the handling of openssl api functions
<diddledan> mgdm: there was a lot of untruth in everything I've said for the last 30 minutes
<mgdm> MartijnVdS: ah
<mgdm> diddledan: as you were, then
<diddledan> e.g. mother nature is alive and well, she's kicking back with father christmas
<mgdm> i didn't see that bit
<diddledan> :-p
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: oh she got rid of father time?
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: she's a bit loose
<diddledan> oh fudge, that php vuln. it's probably present in our production system that cannot be upgraded (easily)
<MartijnVdS> *\o/*
<diddledan> I still need to find time to test an upgrade procedure
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: http://developerexcuses.com/
<diddledan> :-)
<daftykins> hmm tempted to do a PC upgrade
<daftykins> step 1, newer case with front mounted USB3 :)
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: http://www.coolermaster.com/product/Detail/case/mid-tower/silencio-550.html~
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: I'm very pleased with that one
<daftykins> i've an Antec P182 at the moment, so i'm tempted to continue with an Antec :)
<daftykins> nice thick skinned side panels for silencing
<MartijnVdS> this one is quiet, even with 3 fans
<daftykins> yeah same here :)
<daftykins> built in fan controllers usually too, simple little sliders for low/medium/high speed settings
<MartijnVdS> Oh I don't even *want* that :)
<MartijnVdS> My PC can figure that out by itself in software
<daftykins> i see no reason for that
<daftykins> set on low, forget
<MartijnVdS> then why have the setters?
<daftykins> 'cause they enable the lower speed setting
<daftykins> http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CA-168-AN
<daftykins> Â£83
<MartijnVdS> shiny
<MartijnVdS> time for non-screen entertainment ;)
<diddledan> what kind of entertainment doesn't involve a screen?
<daftykins> hahaha
<daftykins> i can think of plenty
<mungbean> airfix \o/
<mungbean> jigsaws (when on holiday)
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> mungbean: have you got a new model on the go?
<mungbean> i do.
<mungbean> http://www.amazon.com/Hasegawa-GMC-CCKW-353-Cargo-Truck/dp/B0006NGOY2
<mungbean> reviews were written by numpties lol
<daftykins> fools indeed
<mungbean> #ubuntu is too high traffic :(
<mungbean> and -uk is too low..
<mungbean> just daftykins on the night shift..
<mungbean> can't find a bug on launchpad either. i love when you find your bug on bugzilla and its a WONTFIX f17 is expired you suck.
<daftykins> ^_^
<daftykins> F17? fedora?
<daftykins> oops quart to 9, best do that eating thing
<popey> hmm
 * popey has dug out his xbox
<popey> time to play some games
<daftykins> 360? :)
<popey> no, original xbox crystal
<popey> 360 is in the lounge
<popey> so doesn't need "digging out" :D
<neuro> vas ist popey gamertag?
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> my crystal xbox is up there on the shelf
<daftykins> and there it shall remain
<popey> popeydc
<popey> upgraded xbmc4xboc and other stuff on my xbox
<popey> was fun
<neuro> madman :)
<daftykins> ah yes i saw some chat by the guy that looks after that the other day
<daftykins> i think he referred to moving a lot of the add-on code over
<popey> that would be exobuzz â»
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> i retired the xbox after i got my ion HTPC
<daftykins> i wanted HD playback asap :>
<neuro> huh
<popey> I suspect this will mostly end up playing games
<neuro> seems i can't add friends from the ios smartglass app
<daftykins> really 0o
<daftykins> lets see what the android one will let me do
<daftykins> you hit search first on your friends list yeah?
<mungbean> anyone having resume from suspend issues on 3.8 kernel? doesn't ask for password
<popey> muhaha
<popey> GTAIII
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> haha nice avatar popey
<mungbean> i spent soo many hours of my life on gta3 and vice city
<daftykins> also a stellar 475 gamerscore XD
<neuro> well, that's pretty unintuitive
<mungbean> and ssx3
<daftykins> neuro: i'd have to disagree there
<neuro> popey: friendage request sent
<mungbean> my mate used to return from work and stand on top of the mutli story in gta3 just sniping pedestrians
<mungbean> hes a mild manneered non psycho too
<daftykins> i've never been especially fond of those that solely mess about in GTA
<daftykins> oh did you get chinatown wars for the DS in the end mungbean ? i think it was you anywho
<mungbean> yes, for 4.60 inc P&P
<mungbean> its on its way
<daftykins> :O
<daftykins> nice
<mungbean> would you receommend any others?
<mungbean> COD4?
 * neuro is https://live.xbox.com/en-GB/Profile?gamertag=evilneuro
<daftykins> i don't own anything else besides professor layton games i got for an ex that left them with me
<popey> yeah, I'd do that too mungbean
<neuro> and also http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3/soldier/evilneuro/stats/115000054/xbox/
<neuro> yes, that says 924 hours
<mungbean> my wife played every prof layton
<mungbean> she loved it
<mungbean> esp during her pregnancy
<mungbean> a facebook friend just said i was looking like pete townshend..do i unfriend him:P
<neuro> well, do you?
<mungbean> no
<mungbean> more like cross between young gary lineker/gary neville and dj qualls
<mungbean> depending on how complementary you want to be
 * popey chuckles at silverlight running on that page neuro posted
<neuro> yeah, pain in the bum
<popey> works here â»
<popey> ish
<mungbean> neuro: i think he meant this pic http://grarg.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/peteTownsend002.png
<mungbean> GSOC plans for rainy: http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/project/google/gsoc2013/dynalon/27001
<mungbean> i hope he manages them
<mungbean> Server-side encryption and PostgreSQL support land in Rainy's git, will be in next release:
<mungbean> sweet
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/t3t0t4fcc6j04qa/basket.JPG
<daftykins> Â£666 D:
<diddledan> I want that cpu+mobo
<diddledan> *drool*
<diddledan> sorry, I'm getting your toys all soggy
<daftykins> ^_^
<daftykins> not sure i really want to just yet
<popey> mungbean: I have a nice new setup for encrypted file sync now
<popey> am happy happy
<popey> https://raymii.org/s/articles/Set_up_your_own_truly_secure_encrypted_shared_storage_aka_Dropbox_clone.html
<AlanBell> that is a nice setup
<popey> it is!
<popey> i actually have gpg encrypted files inside the encrypted folder â»
<bigcalm> Good evening peeps :)
#ubuntu-uk 2013-09-06
<AlanBell> morning all
<moodoo> morning AlanBell :)
<DJones> Morning
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<mungbean> popey: nice, i will look at that. android sync is a good feature i miss that rainy would give me again though with tomdroid (hopefully)
<mungbean> y'all been reading this one today? http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/05/nsa-gchq-encryption-codes-security
<AlanBell> NSA have always been into that kinda thing
<AlanBell> they had key escrow and differential workfactor stuff when it was export restricted
<AlanBell> so everyone else had 64bits to crack, but the NSA had a 24bit headstart
<mungbean> howver it is not sufficient to say, yay AES is secure, if it gets backdoored. how confident are we of truecrypt?
<AlanBell> "Differential Workfactor Cryptography" is the thing to look up, it isn't a big secret
<dwatkins> I'm more concerned that the servers themselves are compromised, and how the various security organisations send my data to themselves.
<dwatkins> If they can get their hooks into hotmail etc. then someone else can, or someone else can snoop their own traffic.
<AlanBell> and hasn't really been done since the export restrictions got lifted
<mungbean> i didn't realise that the man in a bag was related to this http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/08/codebreaker-death/
<DJones> This is so true https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/q71/9309_10151637981802602_517729414_n.jpg
<dwatkins> AlanBell: the first hit on Google for that phrase is blocked by my employer's firewall ;)
<directhex> damnit. when did i buy minecraft?
<bigcalm> directhex: before it was full price is my guess
<bigcalm> I bought it in beta for â¬10 I think
<bigcalm> Or was it still alpha at that price?
<directhex> i think 2010 or 2011
<mungbean> i've still never played it
<directhex> either way, mojang support won't help me without the original purchase confirmation transaction number
<bigcalm> Och, what have you done?
<directhex> bigcalm, they're replacing usernames with email addresses, but if the migration errors out, you're basically stuffed
<mungbean> http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/currys-job-applicants-forced-dance-off-2254279
<bigcalm> directhex: :O
<bigcalm> So that there can be more than one with the same screen name?
<directhex> bigcalm, so you have one account for all your mojang games. i dunno.
<directhex> https://account.mojang.com/migrate
<bigcalm> They make other games?
<bigcalm> Humm
<moodoo> mungbean: they are just idiots.
<directhex> aha, I made it work, by clicking "import" after logging in with my mojang account, rather than "Migrate" separately
<mungbean> i'm amazed people complied with the dancing. this is the state of broken britain
<directhex> and to answer the question, "Since 30 January, 2011" is the age of the account :D
<directhex> mungbean, high unemployment, people desperate for jobs
<mungbean> but really, if you have a moment to consider it, if they ask you to do a dance for the interview, the work culture is gonna make you quit the next day anyway
<JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Friday, and happy Fight Procrastination Day! :-D
<mungbean> "He said the dance had been part of team building exercises, although these were not part of its official recruitment process which would normally include a more formal interview.
<diddledan> I procrastinate over whether to fight procrastination
<bigcalm> I've just migrated my account: 10 November, 2010
<DJones> mungbean: There was an interview with the bloke on radio 4 yesterday, he said he'd sent out about 200 applications & only got 7 replies so was really pleased with getting one from currys, he was supposed to have 5 minutes to talk about his interests so he went out and printed photo's that he takes through a telescope of night sky/astronimical things, and then was just asked to dance
<Laney> that's that
<mungbean> surely you would have the balls to say "i'm sorry, thats not on the job description"
<directhex> mungbean, principles are great! note: you will starve without income
<mungbean> sure, but would you survive in a job where they humiliate you before you even get the role?
<DJones> I think in the economic climate, people are desperate, and wouldn't do something that might stop them getting a job
<directhex> to be picky you need options to pick from
<DJones> +1
<DJones> From the sound of it 200 applications with virtually no response doesn't give you many options
<mungbean> sums up my opinion of the many jerks i've met in dixons
<mungbean> i've only been insulted by staff in dixons/pcw and richer sounds.
 * Laney snuggles richer sounds
<dwatkins> I have a friend used to work for Dixon's support line, he hated it, couldn't wait to get out and do a comp-sci degree.
<directhex> RS have very high customer satisfaction
<mungbean> i told him i would never return to the store
 * bigcalm can has TV stick!
<bigcalm> The printed manual is tiny with tiny print :D
<bigcalm> Looks like it's been written in Engrish, most amusing :)
<popey> directhex: how do you find out when you bought minecraft?
<bigcalm> popey: migrate your account and they then tell you
<popey> oh, my email
<popey> 27/01/2011
<davmor2> Morning all
<moodoo> dwatkins: I worked for dixons pc service call for 5 years
<Laney> the tech guys?
<moodoo> Laney: no this was before then, I started at the beginning when it was pc plus, then again that was about 15/20 years ago lol
<Laney> heh
<davmor2> moodoo: man you're old :D  Morning mucka :)
<moodoo> davmor2: yeah i know :p morning chap
<davmor2> moodoo: go pick on czajkowski it makes you feel younger knowing you can still dodge flying objects :D
<Laney> I know someone who worked at TTG on lenton lane
<Laney> they shut that office and now he works for them from home
<Laney> not sure I could stomach walking people through windows system restore all day every day
<mungbean> windows give sme physical pain
<moodoo> davmor2: i would never do such a thing, i respect czajkowski :p
<moodoo> mungbean: no it doesn't :p
<mungbean> huh?
<davmor2> moodoo: did your nose just break your monitor?
<czajkowski> bah need to figure out which cable to use to get my presnetion to appear on the big screen an everything is apple :(
<moodoo> davmor2: shush
<czajkowski> so not a good start to the day
<mungbean> using MS windows gives me a painful know in my stomach
 * czajkowski sends davmor2 and moodoo to the naughty step, not today! 
<mungbean> s/know/knot
<moodoo> czajkowski: I'm behaving today it's that davmor2 that's causing all the issues
<davmor2> moodoo: definitely through the screen now ;)
<czajkowski> I've a display port but cannot seem to fugure out which one that mirrrors up to
<davmor2> czajkowski: does it not have a hdmi lead?
<czajkowski> I've a HDMi convertor
<davmor2> czajkowski: does the projectory type thing have a hdmi lead, if so plug in the converter and then plug the lead into the converter done
<czajkowski> yeah just It refuses to show up on the connection
<czajkowski> Anyone any idea how to make an imported .pdf into google doc go into presentation mode?
 * bigcalm returns from testing the android tv stick - works really well
<bigcalm> Might consider EoP though. Streaming videos with MediaHousePro from mediatomb can be a little jerky. Time will tell
<bigcalm> I really need to get a magic controller though
<popey> czajkowski: can you not just do it locally, not via gdoc?
<bigcalm> popey: what's the remote you recommend?
<popey> F10 iirc
<czajkowski> popey: the issue is this:  I cannot get my laptop to connect to the big TV for some godly reason.  so I thought plan B, convert to .pdf and upload to google doc so I could present it that way
<popey> mele f10
 * bigcalm googles
<bigcalm> Ta
<popey> czajkowski: make it a pdf, put on a usb stick or email to co-worker, use their laptop
<AlanBell> czajkowski: can you convert to ppt and upload, then gdocs knows it is a presentation
<popey> or that
<czajkowski> yup tried that and google docs wont read it :(
<czajkowski> I'm gonna have w weekend of filing bugs on LO
<czajkowski> now have to hear about if only I'd had a mac discussion
<czajkowski> may i fact slap someone :(
<popey> czajkowski: a ppt, not an odt?
<davmor2> czajkowski: did you try that or did you just save it as LO default odp?  you need to save it as PPT
<popey> s/odt/odp/
<popey> I recall you complained it wouldn't recognise odp, but it should work with ppt
<czajkowski> I've one saved as a ODP which google doc doesnt support so I saved it as a .ppt and that uploads but the image cannot be read
<davmor2> czajkowski: try different ages on PPT too
<czajkowski> popey: mind if I send you it to see if it's just me being a bit you knw... special :)
<bigcalm> Oh my goodness. The remote has speaker and mic - can be used with Skype!
 * bigcalm giggles to himself
<bigcalm> Think I'm going to have to buy one
<popey> yeah, use a windows 95 era ppt
<popey> bigcalm: the mele f10?
<MartijnVdS> or pptx?
<bigcalm> popey: yes
<popey> nice
<czajkowski> ahhh
<czajkowski> a .pptx works to upload
<czajkowski> thank you
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: np :)
<davmor2> czajkowski: now does it display in gdocs in presentation mode :D
<czajkowski> No but I can zoom in and fill up the screen
<czajkowski> I just need to resolve the connection issue
<czajkowski> so maybe plan C is best
<czajkowski> mail co worker in the meeting and present from there
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: google docs has a "convert to gdocs" mode
<czajkowski> and then next week present via Vidyo should be easier
<czajkowski> MartijnVdS: WHERE>.................
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: in the upload dialog
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: the one that pops up while uploading
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: also, "gear" icon (top right) -> upload settings -> convert to Google Docs
<czajkowski> ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
<czajkowski> that setting wWAS OFF!
<MartijnVdS> you can convert after the fact as well, but I don't know how.. let me have a look at my account
 * davmor2 points czajkowski at this book http://www.amazon.co.uk/Google-Apps-Dummies-Ryan-Teeter/dp/0470189584   and runs for the hills
<czajkowski> wow
<czajkowski> that works
<czajkowski> yay
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: what was that link in twitter meant to be it got cute short
<TheOpenSourcerer> davmor2: This one? http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1717674777/gerry-andersons-gemini-force-one
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: that's the one thanks
<bigcalm> Standard delivery 7- 23 days
 * bigcalm grumbles at another HK import
<bigcalm> popey: do you know where your friend got his mele f10 from?
<popey> ebay i think
<popey> ask him
<bigcalm> Who he?
<popey> @8none1
<bigcalm> Oh, on twitter?
<popey> yeah
<bigcalm> Ta
<popey> ask if he still recommends it
<bigcalm> Oh, Will Coke
<popey> close
<bigcalm> +o
<popey> Yes
<bigcalm> :P
<popey> Will O'Coke
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> Cokoe
<mungbean> http://superuser.com/questions/164162/is-truecrypt-truly-safe
<DJones> Shock, Horror, El Reg is positive review scandal http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/09/06/ubuntu_13_10_beta_1_review/?page=1
<DJones> s/is/in/
<MartijnVdS> DJones: I'm calling it: they were paid off.
<DJones> :)
<DJones> Must admit, 1st beta release wasn't something that I'd realised was happening today
<directhex> does mir still echo every VT into your graphical display, so logging on in VT1 will paste your credentials into your irc window if it had focus in VT7?
<diddledan> DJones: didn't it happen yesterday though?
<DJones> diddledan: Could have done, I've not been paying attention
<diddledan> directhex: that sounds like a cool bug
<directhex> diddledan, AKA the "t-mobile g1" bug
<dwatkins> I was also thinking of early Android
<directhex> diddledan, where everything you typed on the first android phone was echoed into a root terminal too
<dwatkins> type "reboot" and hit return whilst writing a text message, the phone reboots
<diddledan> oops
<diddledan> that probably had a purpose at some point for being able to enter commands when you didn't have a console
<dwatkins> yeah, testing, I assume
<diddledan> they just forgot to disable it :-)
<diddledan> it's not a bug it's a feature in that case
<dwatkins> indeed, diddledan
 * bigcalm flops back into the office
 * mungbean just ate a massive scoth egg
<bigcalm> Want to spend the rest of the day playing with my Android on a stick
<mungbean> 411 calories alone
<dwatkins> bigcalm: fun times?
<bigcalm> Listening to the latest Goldfrapp album with Spotify via my TV and thus hi-fi is wonderful :)
<DJones> 411 calories? What was it, and Ostrich egg wrapped in 1/2 a pig
<bigcalm> dwatkins: indeed so, I can really recommend having Android on a stick to make an HD TV a Smart HD TV :D
 * mgdm keeps meaning to make his Joggler run Android
<mgdm> keep forgetting
<mungbean> i needed to supplmenet my pasta which had no met. i have gut ache now
<bigcalm> mgdm: dog slow and painful. But amusing
<dwatkins> bigcalm: sounds like fun, might give it a go (I have a Raspberry Pi running XBMC, so I use that for watching tV a lot)
<dwatkins> mungbean: try not eating carbs for a couple months ;)
<mungbean> dwatkins: i would disappear
 * TheOpenSourcerer is delighted it is Friday. Means Pub later :-D Lots of calories in Beer. Good calories I'm sure.
<mungbean> cannot drink beer anymore :(
<mungbean> tummy don't like it
 * bigcalm is excited for the trip down south to the RAT :D
<dwatkins> mungbean: I was hesitant at first, I've found I don't get that mid-afternoon urge to nap anymore ;)
<mgdm> dwatkins: I keep intending to do that, then failing
<dwatkins> mgdm: nap, or give up carbs...?
<mgdm> dwatkins: the latter :-)
<bigcalm> :D
<bigcalm> If I had the time, I would nap
<bigcalm> Have been known to nap at lunch time
<davmor2> bigcalm: you mean you wake up at some point?
<dwatkins> I used to work with someone who took a nap every lunchtime.
<directhex> mmm a nap sounds lovely
<dwatkins> I had a sandwich for lunch, so I do feel like napping today, normally I just have chicken salad and I'm fine.
<mungbean> napping is healthy
<MartijnVdS> nappies are healthy?
<diddledan> problem is with me a nap usually lasts a full 4 hours
<MartijnVdS> sleep more during the night
<diddledan> I sleep over 8 hours at night as it is
<diddledan> if left to my own devices I'd sleep upwards of 12 hours a day
<diddledan> thank god for alarms
<MartijnVdS> You're a strange person :P
<diddledan> I'm on medication :-D
<diddledan> probably to combat the strangeness :-p
<DJones> 12 Hours sleep, that would be a wonder to have, weekdays my alarm is set for 7am just in case, normally I wake at 6am and toss & turn for a while before getting up & waking the dog up for an early morning walk
<MartijnVdS> I couldn't.
<diddledan> yeah, my alarm goes off at 7 too
<MartijnVdS> If I go to bed before 22:00, I wake up at 6
<TheOpenSourcerer> My alarm is set for 06:15am
<MartijnVdS> after tossing & turning until 22:00
<mungbean> alarm is set for 11.30pm
<MartijnVdS> if I go to bed after 22:00, I wake up at 6
<dwatkins> My alarm goes off at 6:30, I get up sometime between then and 7am, have bacon and eggs then cycle to work. If I leave later than 7:30, I have issues with the pedestrian and dog traffic.
<DJones> I need an unpaid intern for envelope stuffing
<diddledan> I need to outsource my job to china
<diddledan> (and pocket the profit)
<dwatkins> yes, diddledan, because no-one *ever* got accused of defrauding their employer for doing that...
<diddledan> it was reading about accusations that got me thinking it would be a good idea :-p
<dwatkins> I can't believe the bloke that did it got away with it for so long.
<andylockran> howdy all
<mungbean> Bruce Schneier â¢ September 5, 2013 4:35 PM
<mungbean> "Could the NSA be intercepting downloads of open-source encryption software and silently replacing these with their own versions?"
<mungbean> Yes, I believe so.
<andylockran> md5sum for the win
<andylockran> but I guess they've probably got that hacked too
<mungbean> conspiracy guys are gonna need bigger hats
<andylockran> sales of tin foil up 400%
<DJones> mungbean: tinfoil onesies :)
<mungbean> a bit scratchie
<Monotoko> say I've narrowed down a search in MySQL to get me a club officer... with three AND's in my WHERE (club id, year and clubofficerid)
<Monotoko> how would I get it to bring back two club officers (clubofficerid 1 and 2) without doing another query?
<mgdm> that's nowhere near enough information
<mgdm> we'd need to know your table structures and the existing query
<mgdm> and what's wrong with a second query for WHERE id IN (1, 2)?
<Monotoko> mgdm: hang on I will pastebin my query, there's a few tables involved here
<Monotoko> mgdm: IN sounds like the one I was missing: http://pastebin.com/bCGHJWqR
<Monotoko> at the moment that's bringing me back one email address for the secretary, I want it to bring me back an email address for the secretary and the president
<Monotoko> yeah IN was the one
<Monotoko> thank you
<DJones> Dammed devices, I never know which way to turn when something goes 'ding' in the office, is it an email, a text, gtalk, and which device made the bloody noise, sometimes its every device
<mungbean> i hate the whistle notification that everyone on the train thinks its cool to have
<mungbean> although yesterday someone had a ringtone like a rape alarm...but it was just a phone call
<DJones> Driving home the other night after talking about the MS/Nokia deal, they said they were going to test how annoying the Nokia ringtone was by playing it continuously until 100 people had emailed in to say stop, it went on for about a minute before they either got the 100 emails or got fed up themselves
<DJones> (On the radio)
<popey> that's the dumbest radio stunt ever
<popey> surely people will just change the channel
<mungbean> which station?
<mungbean> its precisely the reason i don't even listen to radio
<DJones> Radio 4
<mungbean> and the fact that somebody stole my aerial
<diddledan> aerial theft?!
<mungbean> wow i thought it would be capitalheartcheese fm
<diddledan> who would want to steal a wire?
<mungbean> car aerial
<mungbean> it all started in 1976 when someones aerial broke, so he stole his neighbours
<diddledan> use a wire coat hanger
<dwatkins> I had a little figure (Gir from Invader Zim) on my aerial, some git stole him :(
<DJones> Would a car radio without an ariel be a "wireless".... I know, its bad
<mungbean> fast forward to 2013 and i am going to break the chain by not buying or stealing one
<mungbean> its  aroof aerial , the thick platic coated kind
<mungbean> you can''t just plop a wire into a slot anymore
<diddledan> that's like not forwarding on a chain letter^H^H^H^H^H^Hemail
<diddledan> you're gonna die a horrible death now because of it
<diddledan> or "your crush" is going to do the opposite of the wish you made when you read the countdown from 10 to 1 in textual form
<mungbean> my wife gets annoyed because i can sort of hear radio5 someotimes in good conditions, so if i'm desperate for the arsenal score, i will turn it on and brrrrfuzzzzzzzzzarsenal7...ijiojiojeroije
<dwatkins> mungbean: for a moment I thought you meant you could hear Radio 5 without the need for a radio...
<diddledan> ditto
<mungbean> lolz
<dwatkins> it's not unheard-of
<mungbean> http://i.imgur.com/StabbzB.jpg
<mungbean> heheh
<mungbean> http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/1lucdy/did_linus_torvalds_backdoor_linux_random_number/
<diddledan> of course he did
<DJones> Erk, Listening to a Doctor Who play, first episode is called "Scorpius" and I was wondering where Blake & Tarrent were..Confused.com
<bigcalm> That went over my head
<DJones> Blakes 7 reference
<bigcalm> Righto
<bigcalm> Blake 7 was before my time, but I wonder about checking it out
<DJones> You should do before Microsoft ruin it
<DJones> With their rumoured remake
<bigcalm> o.O
<diddledan> microsoft doing telly?!
<DJones> Rumoured anyway http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23712001 Also denied
<bigcalm> "Gamers will have to pay to take advantage of some features of the Xbox One"
<bigcalm> I'm surprised that such a statement needs to be made
<mungbean> like the power button?
<bigcalm> Hehe
<mungbean> i hate stealth costs more than anything
<BigRedS> bigcalm: "What? I need to buy the games as well?!"
<davmor2> mungbean: no this is microsoft not app,  you get the power button for free, but breathing during game play costs per breath
<davmor2> s/app/apple
<mungbean> after 300 power cycles then RROD
<Laney> wow this is an extreme dead leg
<Laney> my foot is like set custard
<mungbean> mmm custard
<davmor2> Laney: it's in a coffin on a trampoline trying to drag the rest of you in ?
<Laney> now it's recovered a bit
<Laney> at the extreme pain whenever it's moved stage
<mungbean> mmm cookies
<mungbean> 50p for 5 big ones in sainsbury
<diddledan> WOW
<diddledan> I need cookies now!
<mungbean> they put them near the self serve tills for the weak willed
<mungbean> and the hungry
<diddledan> I'm both
<davmor2> mungbean: what were you at the time then?
<mungbean> i expected a time that i would be hungry. i'm rarely weak willed
<mungbean> except on reddit lately i appear to be getting involved with trolls and wrong people
<davmor2> mungbean: unless it's cookies it seems :D
<mungbean> i should just downvote and move on
<davmor2> mungbean: do what I do, don't look at reddit :D
<diddledan> I've never even been tempted to regularly read reddit
<mungbean> i entered a cycle of behaviour since having the baby
<mungbean> feeding the sprog in the dark at 11.30pm requires stimulation so you don't fall asleep
<mungbean> after reading facebook , you need fresh stuff
<mungbean> reddit is what you read when all your other stuff dries up
<mungbean> and irc is asleep
<mungbean> /r/parenting is the worst....wHYY!?!?
<davmor2> mungbean: Just read wikipeadia start at A ;)
<mungbean> aardvark...yawn...snoooze...woops baby
<dwatkins> clearly no-one reads Slashdot anymore
<bigcalm> Not for a very long time in my case :)
<funkyHat> And why would they? ;P
<Seeker`> funkyHat: to recap on last weeks news
<dwatkins> I hadn't opened slashdot in about 6 months until yesterday.
<bigcalm> Anybody remember the f key overlay cards that were available for the BBC Micro  for different programmes? I'm wondering if there is a template out there for creating ones own overlay for different keyboards
<popey> bah
<popey> dug out desktop, booted it up, whining like a whatsit
<popey> cpu fan
<diddledan> I do that
<diddledan> I'm a whiney git
<diddledan> :-p
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yay! Nearly beer oclock!
<andylockran> exit
<andylockran> oops
<andylockran> :)
<andylockran> bye all - have a good weekend
<MartijnVdS> \o
<bigcalm> :O how is it 6pm?
<bigcalm> Almost
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: gravity well, curved space-time, etc.
<bigcalm> There we go
 * bigcalm grumbles
<popey> hmm, hardware chaps, the fan in my desktop is busted, and i need a replacement pronto
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/E97378-001-INTEL-ALUMINUM-HEATSINK-WITH/dp/B00BV1CRR6
<popey> its one of them
<MartijnVdS> popey: does it have to be one of them? as it's a desktop, wouldn't a "normal" CPU/case fan work?
<popey> no idea
<popey> i dont do hardware
<popey> looks like it's Lga1155? thats the chip form factor right?
<MartijnVdS> popey: just googled the type number on google image
<MartijnVdS> ah yes
<popey> i see some on amazon i can get delivery tomorrow via prime
<popey> which will do
<MartijnVdS> popey: I'm liking my replacement for that.. let me find it again
<popey> ta
<popey> quiet would be nice
<popey> cheap also good â»
<MartijnVdS> popey: I have http://www.coolermaster.com/product/Detail/cooling/cpu-liquid-cooler/seidon-120m.html
<MartijnVdS> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Coolermaster-Seidon-120M-Watercooling-Kit/dp/B00AOEWCWG
<MartijnVdS> that's going to be *quiet*
<popey> i had one of them and it didnt fit the case
<MartijnVdS> hmm
<MartijnVdS> popey: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Akasa-AK-CC7108EP01-Heatsink-Noise-Socket/dp/B008OHNJN6/ref=sr_1_2?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1378487619&sr=1-2&keywords=1155+fan  ?
<popey> something like that year
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Akasa-AK-CC7117EP01-Performance-LGA1156-LGA1155/dp/B005J2IS3U/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1378487459&sr=1-1&keywords=Lga1155+fan
<popey> gets good reviews
<MartijnVdS> it looks like a bee or a wasp ;)
<popey> heh
<MartijnVdS> It looks OK, I don't know if it comes with the paste
<diddledan> I would hope it does
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: it really depends these days
<diddledan> really?
<diddledan> dang
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: not including it makes the package cheaper
<popey> "However the K32 Akasa cooler is a bargain and keeps temps cool, comes with heat paste applied ready."
<popey> looks good enough
<MartijnVdS> (Y)
<popey> ta
<popey> Boom, ordered
 * MartijnVdS ordered a new radio for the car earlier
<MartijnVdS> display on current one is dead
<MartijnVdS> which makes it a bit hard-ish to use
<popey> ooh good call
<MartijnVdS> I ordered this one: http://www.amazon.co.uk/AEG-4029-Autoradio-Watt-AUX-IN/dp/B00A7QGDB2 (hm, amazon.de has it for â¬50 less)
<brobostigon> good evening everyone,
<MartijnVdS> hi brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi MartijnVdS
 * MartijnVdS listens some more Andy Cato
<diddledan> I need takeaway
<MartijnVdS> omg.. this exists: http://www.glastonbridge.co.uk/flash/q.php?i=YES+IT+REALLY+EXISTS
<popey> wut
<MartijnVdS> popey: web-based QI buzzer :)
<popey> handy
<MartijnVdS> popey: if someone's obviously wrong, yes
<popey> excellent
<MartijnVdS> ah, it has an accompanying form: http://www.glastonbridge.co.uk/flash/q2.html
<popey> \o/ Your Amazon.co.uk order of "Akasa AK-CC7117EP01 K32..." has been dispatched
<popey> Estimated delivery date: Monday, September 09, 2013
<popey> bastards
<popey> oh, thats the other thing I ordered
<hamitron> oh geez, government run organisations are so poorly organised... they've lost all copies of my qualifications and certificates twice now :/
<hamitron> and licenses
<diddledan> oops
<directhex> hamitron, non-govt organizations are no better
<hamitron> suppose that can be the case, just not experienced larger places of work much
#ubuntu-uk 2013-09-07
<MartijnVdS> "Ocelittle" - http://i.imgur.com/FycWalC.jpg
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<arc__> Hello
<brobostigon> morning arc__
<arc__> Some reason in windows it keeps asking me to format my partition with ubuntu on
<arc__> How can it even see the partition
<tsimpson> the OS can see all the partitions
<tsimpson> it just won't recognise the filesystem on it and assume it's unformatted
<popey> \o/ fan fitted
<ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6074263/ <- can someone test this on raring please?
<ali1234> nvm, tested it
<ali1234> worked as expected, saucy is broken :(
<bubu> hey guys, can anyone see whats up with this regex? ^stats\.*\.apps.deployments\.*
<bubu> trying to match stats.bla.apps.deployments.bla
<bubu> not working :/
<penguin42> bubu: Is this a grep or perl regexp for a start?
<bubu> py
<^aDaM> Hello all :)
 * ^aDaM is officaly a daddy!
<ali1234> bubu: * means zero or more of the previous character
<penguin42> adam_: Oh congrats!
<ali1234> bubu: so your regex matches stats......apps.deployments.........
<penguin42> bubu: Yeh so depending on your quoting you want to get the . as opposed to \.
<bubu> http://www.pythonregex.com
<bubu> ^stats\..*\.apps.deployments\..*
<ali1234> that wont work either
<ali1234> it will match stats.(anything at all)
<bubu> so this seems to match stats.bla.apps.deployments.bla in the checker
<bubu> but it doesn't work..
<bubu> ja :/
<ali1234> ^stats\.[^\.]*\.apps.deployments\.[^\.]*
<ali1234> can i suggest you do not use regex?
<bubu> I have to use regex :/
<ali1234> why?
<bubu> because the code I am using regquire me to feed it a regex
<bubu> requires*
<ali1234> that doesn't sound like a compelling reason to me
<bubu> http://graphite.readthedocs.org/en/0.9.11/config-carbon.html#storage-schemas-conf
<bubu> it's for a storage-schema
<ali1234> ^stats\.([^.]*)\.apps.deployments\.([^.]*)
<ali1234> that works, tested it
<bubu> thanks dude
<bubu> still not working
<bubu> fs
<penguin42> bubu: With regexps the trick is to build it up from smaller chunks that work
<penguin42> bubu: So can you get a really short one that matches say ^stats  to work?
<ali1234> pattern = ^servers\.www.*\.workers\.busyWorkers$
<ali1234> look at that, it's a none standard implementation
<ali1234> regex is supposed to be greedy
<ali1234> that pattern shouldn't work :/
<ali1234> never use regex
 * penguin42 didn't think that greedyness was that big a problem as long as it was unambiguous because of the ending\
<ali1234> it depends on the implementation
<ali1234> the original does not look ahead at all
<bubu> lol
<bubu> :/
<popey> hmm, pc still making noises
<popey> could be gpu fan or psu fan
<^aDaM> thanks penguin42
<^aDaM> you messaged the wrong adam penguin42 lol
<^aDaM> tagged even
<popey> damnit, it was the gpu fan
<popey> gah, this card is ~2 years old. time flies
<penguin42> ^aDaM: Haha ok
<bigcalm> Good afternoon peeps :)
<penguin42> hey bc
<ali1234> ali12345678: test
<arc__> Hi all
<penguin42> popey: are those crashes that are captured from segs or something or actually from the type of thing in the bug you ref?
<popey> penguin42: i cant parse that
<penguin42> popey: The X bug you pointed to, would that have caused entries to be gathered against xserver-xorg?
<popey> penguin42: scenario is thus:- Machine locks up for a period of seconds. I wait. After some seconds - 10-30 it responds. I may or may not get a popup. Looking in /var/crash I see lots of crashes
<popey> all from the same thing
<popey> the bug was the result of me going through the apport popup wizard, yes
<popey> resulting from one of those crashes
<penguin42> hmm but X doesn't restart?
<popey> correct
<popey> GPU lockup, not restart
<popey> now happening on both my intel laptop and my desktop
<penguin42> hmm ok, I wonder how whoopsie gathers that crash log for that and recovers it
<popey> didnt happen on my desktop until today because I removed the nvidia card (you saw the pics) and thus reverted to intel onboard video card
<popey> looks like it's slowly uploading them
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6076893/
<popey> oh, no, it uploaded one a while ago
<popey> probably clever enough not to bother with the rest
 * popey sleeps
<popey> going to leave machine on all night with no apps open
<penguin42> popey: Interesting, never seen it recover from that stuff - but anyway, good night
<popey> ttfn
<n1md4> evening.  has any one experinced rsync not copying all data before?
<n1md4> I've not before, but just have now ... any ideas?
#ubuntu-uk 2013-09-08
<penguin42> no
<penguin42> any pattern to what it's missed?
<n1md4> Let, me take another look.
<n1md4> No pattern I can tell..
<penguin42> hmm
<penguin42> is this chunks of data out of a big file where the file has been updated or new files or what?
<n1md4> Hmmmm I'm sure there was some files missing within a directory, but perhaps I should put the crack pipe down
<penguin42> haha perhaps your brain was just out of sync with the disk
<n1md4> ..I can't find any missing files now :\
<penguin42> erm odd
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<penguin42> RadiumCat: Does a RadiumCat need to sit on a radiator to keep warm?
<penguin42> wth can't chromium do 3d on the open ATI drivers?
<penguin42> ahha - --ignore-gpu-blacklist
<bee2> hi all, im trying to mount an nfs directory but it just hangs forever - any idea what to do?
<penguin42> bee2: Make sure portmap is running
<penguin42> bee2: Also use showmount -e to see if the server looks ok from there
<penguin42> <food>
<bee2> penguin42, portmap is definitely running... and the dir is in the export list
<penguin42> bee2: portmap running on the client?
<MartijnVdS> firewall opened?
<bee2> penguin42, yeah, but i decided to go with sshfs in the end
<penguin42> ah that's just simpler
<n1md4> Hi.  Does any one know how to split a mkv file?
<penguin42> what's one of those?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: matroska video
 * penguin42 would probably try ffmpeg
<MartijnVdS> n1md4: I'd use avconv
<penguin42> yeh
<MartijnVdS> which is the same as ffmpeg really
<penguin42> yeh
<MartijnVdS> or maybe avidemux if you want to split graphically
<MartijnVdS> or openshot
<n1md4> I need something graphical, unless avconv is able to detect start/finish of chapters?
<penguin42> n1md4: kino/kdenlive ?
<n1md4> kino was wanting to convert to DV
<n1md4> any way, thanks for the assist.
<bigcalm> Good evening peeps :)
<penguin42> hey
<daftykins> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0dx7hTnTYk
<daftykins> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUtOy4HmNrA
<daftykins> my trip to Jersey Zoo
#ubuntu-uk 2014-09-01
<MartijnVdS> popey: http://www.reddit.com/r/britishproblems/comments/2f3ejm/a_vulcan_flew_over_our_house_this_afternoon/
<mapps> hm
<shauno_> yaknow, I spotted that one, and wondered if it might be anyone here :p
<Myrtti> irssi 0.8.17-rc2 \o/
<Myrtti> good morning
<nigelb> morning.
<nigelb> I'm dealing with a wordpress bug, not good.
<Myrtti> I've got both stomach problems and the first kickoff meeting after most people come back from holidays. I'm <sarcasm>extatic</sarcasm>
<nigelb> :(
<foobarry> anyone use copy.com? i can't get the auto photo upload working
<foobarry> MartijnVdS: saw it at the air show, sounded like the sky was ripping in half
<foobarry> was brilliant sound
<popey> MartijnVdS: i saw that reddit thread â»
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy Emma M Nutt Day! :-D
<SuperMatt> anyone in london interested in learning to swing dance on friday?
<davmor2> JamesTait: it's US labour day today so it must mean that lots of babies are born in the next 24 hours ;)
<foobarry> groan
<JamesTait> davmor2, http://instantrimshot.com/
<davmor2> foobarry: well it was that or they celebrate working by taking a day off
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<hazrpg> \o
<brobostigon> morning hazrpg
<hazrpg> morning brobostigon :)
<brobostigon> :)
<zmoylan-pi> greetings mammals
<penguin42> hmm
<zmoylan-pi> and our avian comrades as well of course :-p
 * penguin42 hands zmoylan-pi a herring
<zmoylan-pi> hands over a kipper in mark of mutual respect
<popey> pip pip
<SuperEngineer> SuperEngineer is on 2 weks leave - coincidence that the sun has started shining?  Nah!
<zmoylan-pi> first week of september is often sunny to annoy the kids going back to school :-)
<zmoylan-pi> sitting in class after wet summer looking outside at sun beating down to start crushing their spirits at a young age :-)
<SuperEngineer> [every 1st week in September I wave at every location that might have a school - laughing on my way to havivng some fun.
<popey> our kids go back soon
<popey> not soon enough
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<foobarry> "Take an extra 40% off ANY subscription on Zinio.com!"
<zmoylan-pi> run past with ballons and giant inflatable toy :-)
<foobarry> zinio have big offer on atm if you don't really care about read your magz when the company goes away
<Myrtti> "when the company goes away" :-D
<foobarry> it was offline over the weekend and i couldn't even read my offline magz
<popey> nice
<foobarry> feel like there's no other option for online mag reading
<foobarry> (legal)
<zmoylan-pi> online mag reading... isn't that the internet? :-)
<Myrtti> foobarry: Google News & Magazines
<foobarry> i tend to rad niche non tech mags
<Myrtti> https://play.google.com/store/newsstand
<foobarry> google mags doesn't have any good ones
 * SuperEngineer prepares to do list of "things that I *must* pack"... includes netbook
<SuperEngineer> well it is a UUPC week :D
<zmoylan-pi> phone, phone charger, phone booster battery pack, netbook, netbook charger, 1 pair underwear and a hammer
<penguin42> don't forget the gaffer tape
<popey> "niche non-tech mags"
<popey> uh-huh
<zmoylan-pi> nah the hammer is make sure the underwear still bend on day 7 :-D
<popey> hah
<foobarry> popey: modelling but plastic ones , not ladies
<popey> noted
<foobarry> oh, that sounds even worse
<zmoylan-pi> at least not a trainspotter
<SuperEngineer> I like the hammer idea... so much lighter than the mallet I was going to take in case anybody asked me "while you're here - could fix my pooter"!
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/thunar/+bug/1363975
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1363975 in thunar (Ubuntu) "/usr/bin/thunar:11:unity_gtk_menu_shell_get_visible_indices:unity_gtk_menu_shell_get_separator_indices:unity_gtk_menu_shell_get_sections:unity_gtk_menu_shell_get_n_items:g_menu_exporter_menu_prepare" [Undecided,New]
<ali1234> i just made that :)
<ali1234> oops wrong channel, derp
<popey> â»
<penguin42> oh that's quite neat actually
<switchtehbeat> hi, there. :)
<ali1234> popey: what is unity_gtk_shell_menu?
<ali1234> is it related to appmenus (global menu) or HUD?
<popey> dunno
<popey> probably
<ali1234> it's definitely one or the other
<ali1234> zero hits on google for unity_gtk_shell_menu
<zmoylan-pi> google isn't what it used to be
<ali1234> i have a feeling that the HUD integration patches are crashing thunar now
<ali1234> we already fixed the crashes caused by the global menu inegration hacks
<zmoylan-pi> i recently had to switch away from unity as he bugs were getting weirder
<ali1234> yeah the thing is you only have to have unity installed, and it patches your gtk to hell :)
<ali1234> and then all other desktops break really bad
<foobarry> is there a tune that sounds like gentle ben tune but isn't?
<foobarry> i was whistling it absent mindedly, but when i checked on youtube it was a bit different
<ali1234> it sounds a bit like the music from ocarina of time
<ali1234> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uInmFU6JkU
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: where in the world have you been you slacker ;)
<bigcalm> davmor2: burred under 1s and 0s
<bigcalm> I'm hoping to make it to the LUG this week though
<davmor2> I'm not even thinking that far ahead ;)
<directhex> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6irAa6sZSsU
<bigcalm> I really should do something with my RPi
<SuperEngineer> bigcalm: suggestion for something to do with it - send it to me [pretty please] ;)
<bigcalm> SuperEngineer: and what will you do with it?
<SuperEngineer> 1/ enjoy the fact that you paid for the postage
<SuperEngineer> 2/ learn
<SuperEngineer> 3/ say thankyou
<SuperEngineer> 4/ refund the postage ;)
<SuperEngineer> [& buy you a beer or two]
<bigcalm> Ha
<bigcalm> Learn what?
<SuperEngineer> dunno - ain't got one
<SuperEngineer> suggest
<bigcalm> It's just a linux capable machine. One can do everything that you can do on the RPi on a desktop machine
<SuperEngineer> what - you mean it doesn't windoze?!
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<bigcalm> Apparently one can... http://www.raspberrypi.org/tag/windows/
<SuperEngineer> wow - now I *am* surprised!
<mapps> hm
<mapps> gbraltar ore expensive than i thought
<mapps> gonna be paying Â£733 each for a 2bed apt;/
<SuperEngineer> however - if I ever did have one - I'm sure all I would do with it was stuff a couple of old time games on it - carry it around with me - and watch people's jaws drop ;)
<SuperEngineer> mapps: why not try Malta instead - used to be a lot better value
<mapps> well
<mapps> il be working in gib
<mapps> so cant really :)
<mapps> for 6-12 months
<mapps> company paying Â£500 rent allowance per month though
<mapps> and 8% payrise
<SuperEngineer> hmmmm - slight fail in my suggestion there then ;)
<mapps> they will provide free accomodation BUT its 15min taxi from gib border and 30min walk
<mapps> id prefer the 500quid towards rent
<SuperEngineer> do you mind commuting?  there's always the "rent in Spain - work in Gibralta" option
<SuperEngineer> if you don't mind border queues
<mapps> thats what work provide -- see above
<mapps> for free..but i dont want it
<mapps> its too far imo 15min taxi every day from apartment to border..and border to apartment
<mapps> 30min walk or taxi from border to apartment
<SuperEngineer> oh well
<mapps> kinda tempting to go permanent
<mapps> they'll pay 500 quid for rent allowance and 8% rise forever
<mapps> so almost living rent free
<SuperEngineer> [& there's me thinking I had a quiet week coz I didn't do more than 400 miles on any day last week
<bigcalm> Is the move to Gibraltar a big one?
<foobarry> bigcalm: tried native riscos?
<mapps> not really..il be leaving most here
<foobarry> onthe pi
<mapps> just taking suitcase and hang luggage
<mapps> should be back in 6months
<mapps> or 12monthd
<foobarry> they have M&S out there
<foobarry> so everything you need
<mapps> :D
<bigcalm> foobarry: I haven't, but I want to now. I had several Archimedes in my teens
<SuperEngineer> [those underpants are gonna be lethal weapons by the end of that time with only a suitcase worth of luggage]
<SuperEngineer> use the M&S
<mapps> lol
<bigcalm> foobarry: seeing the icons in the web page is giving me wonderful nostalgia
<shauno_> SuperEngineer: that's what I've done .. RetroPi & a wireless gamepad.  makes for a very tidy way to hide my sins behind the TV
<shauno_> I still find it astounding you can fit your entire childhood on an SD card
<SuperEngineer> shauno_: so send me yours - save bigcalm the postage ;)
<SuperEngineer> ...and if anybody is about to suggest the "buy your own" option..............
<SuperEngineer> servermsg: [continuation of that has been deleted for reasons of decency]
<mapps> http://www.golden-goose-method.com/?id=bd487d&sub=prpoauk_1164
<mapps> love that video lol
<bigcalm> SuperEngineer: you've got a decent job with RackSpace. I'm sure you could afford one
<mapps> i went to see FC Jumula v Ventriplils last thursday and lol top league..under 100 people there...and free
<mapps> when i went to buy a ticket the girl on reception laughed 'nono is free' ;
<mapps> :D
<shauno_> I thought that was the other Super*
<SuperEngineer> bigcalm: the reason I could afford such things is because I try to get peeps to give me theirs F.O.C. ;)
<mapps> yet the match is streamed on bookmakers sites around the world...Â£120000 matched on over 3.5 goals at half time
<mapps> so strange
<bigcalm> SuperEngineer: the B+ has just come out, get one of those :)
<SuperEngineer> ....but yeah, apart from the emplotyer, you're right
<bigcalm> Doh, sorry
 * bigcalm scratches head
<bigcalm> I thought you were the same person, hence much confusion
<SuperEngineer> just posted this #ubuntu-steam - might be worth posting here as well...
<SuperEngineer> ...anybody want a -75% coupon for Dear Esther? I already own it so no good to me - but it runs out tomorrow so you need to use it today!
<bigcalm> I have it from a Humble Bundle
<Myrtti> bigcalm: Super M a t t vs. SuperEngineer
<SuperEngineer> bigcalm: that's whwere I got it as well
<SuperEngineer> Myrtti: why would I go into a me vs xxxx battle - I'm so magnanimous & kind it would would hurt me to put the opponant down [but h boy - you'd hear them hit the ground when I did] ;)
<Myrtti> ;-)
<bigcalm> Is it possible to reverse a YouTube playlist?
 * penguin42 hands bigcalm the mindbleach
<SuperEngineer> bigcalm - using a combo of SMPlayer & [playlister of your choice] - i suspect it os
<SuperEngineer> *is
<bigcalm> Using a chome plugin in chromium, seems to have done the trick
<SuperEngineer> cool
 * SuperEngineer hugs SMPlayer YouTube Browser
<SuperEngineer> bigcalm: a thought - have you got Dear Esther working in 14.04?  It wouldn't install for me cos the libraries are deprecated... all research came up with "iffy" options - late found to be confirmed.
<bigcalm> SuperEngineer: haven't tried it since the bundle release
<SuperEngineer> [i now have a miniture Mint partition just for Dear Ester lol[
 * SuperEngineer knows of someone else on this channel who has been seen on Steam playing it]
<SuperEngineer> ... no names mentioned but "he" also has a windows pooter which I suspect is where "he" was playing it...
<SuperEngineer> ...or was *he* playing on Mint himself, I wonder
<SuperEngineer> [damn - *he*'s not taking the bait]
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<SuperEngineer> Wondering - what's the *best* [not related to Apple in any way] music download site these days?
 * SuperEngineer misses U1 music store - who was it they used, can't remember :(
<shauno_> SuperEngineer: 7digital I think ?
<davmor2> SuperEngineer: 7 digital
<SuperEngineer> cool -thanks
<SuperEngineer> thanks shauno_ & davmor2 - that's the one! 20p a track more than avewrage but UK site and legal, non-DRM, non-WMA, non-Ipod. that'll do me fine
<foobarry> amazon also , but they don't pay tax :S
<doubaco> hey hey, nyone awke?
 * penguin42 yaaawwwnns
<doubaco> luxury. i cant even yawn as my lubuntu netbooks no sound
<doubaco> i tried volume contol nothing. i tried bbc r4.asx stream nothing, i tried iplayer, nothing.
<penguin42> hmm
<penguin42> doubaco: Personally I like to use a program called paman to debug sound
<doubaco> penguin42: what's paman and how can a noob like me use it?
<penguin42> doubaco: Start by installing the paman package - it's a manager for the 'Pulse audio' system that does a lot (but not all) of the audio work
<penguin42> doubaco: It's got a GUI and I can talk you through some stuff; if you don't find it with that then you might need to try alsamixer, but start with paman
<doubaco> it found it
<penguin42> doubaco: So start paman and go to the devices tab, and look at the list of 'sinks' - does it list something like Built-in audio/analog stereo?
#ubuntu-uk 2014-09-02
<mapps> hm
<penguin42> ?
<mapps> just hm
<mapps> why does my pi crash :(
<penguin42> because it blew it's raspberry?
<mapps> :D
<penguin42> powersupply? Bad SD card?
<mapps> its well the wifi gets disconnected every time i connect to the vpn
<mapps> dont get it
<ali1234> cos is has really limited resources
<hamitron> mine always crashed when using anything other than archlinux or slackware.... I should see if things are fixed now, or if my pi is just not great
<ali1234> and the usb is really flaky
<mapps> hmm and yet everyone rants on about the pi and using it for vpns and xbmc etc
<mapps> has anyone tried it with xbmc?
<ali1234> i don't even have one
<ali1234> xbmc is a different thing though. it's all gpu stuff. the gpu isn't that bad
<ali1234> it does choke if you try to stream very high bitrates apparently, cos again, the usb sucks
 * hamitron has only really used the cli on it
<mapps> ah i see
<ali1234> maybe your vpn is misconfigured.
<hamitron> burnt out my enthusiasm getting it working, then got 100 days uptime checking it worked.... followed by unplugging it and leaving it in a drawer to stop it collecting dust ;)
<ali1234> you know default for vpn is generally to route everything through the tunnel, right?
<ali1234> including dns
<ali1234> so you better hope the other end has some dns servers
<hamitron> gl anyway, I'm off o/
<mapps> :D
<mapps> all this icloud and stolen photos..why does everyone believe in the 'cloud' so much? surely having your own data at home yourself or your own cloud is better..storage is so cheap
<penguin42> mapps: Because when you want to access it from your phone/tablet/etc when you're on the go it's a pain to sync, and you've still got to backup to cope with burglary/fire/etc
<ali1234> why are people taking nude photos of themselves all the time anyway?
<mapps> yea i get that part of it..but seems dangerous trusting third parties with all your data
<ali1234> kids today
<penguin42> mapps: Well, is it actually any more dangerous than your ISPs router ?  (It's also not obvious where the problem happened this time)
<penguin42> ali1234: Indeed that does seem a more appropriate question
<mapps> true
<ali1234> allegedly someone found an apple login form with no brute force protection
<mapps> that seems crazy
<ali1234> so yeah i'd say it is more dangerous than the ISP router.. cos that doesn't keep a copy of everything
<penguin42> true, but it could let into your internal network
<ali1234> yeah but if someone starts brute forcing your hoe server it wil probably just crash
<penguin42> mapps: it's also because generally they probably wanted to share the pictures with someone; I mean I doubt they'd taken nudes of themselves purely for their own grattification
<ali1234> er... home
<ali1234> that was unfortunate
<ali1234> it seems like either they could get into every account and we're just seeing the "interesting" stuff, or literally everyone on icloud spends all their free time sexting
<penguin42> well, they are by definition vain mac/iphone owners
<hamitron> ali1234, last line looks like a free advert ;)
 * hamitron signs up
<ali1234> i guess another possibility is an inside job
<penguin42> possibly not the best choice of words, but possibly
<penguin42> I'd hope their was enough safeguarding to make it difficult for an apple staff member to do it
<OERIAS> Any one here with thoughts on Galaxy Tab S?
<map> hi
<Myrtti> I'm looking at Google Streetview stuff inside a museum for the first time ever
<awilkins> 100 Objects?
<Myrtti> https://plus.google.com/u/0/+GoogleMaps/posts/47h7t7DPTpD
 * DJones wonders which street the dinosour exhibits are on
<DJones> I remember reading about google bringing in some hand held/backpack street view camera's so they could do things like that
<DJones> Myrtti: Backpack street view camera's http://www.gadgetreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Trekker-Backpack.jpeg  http://www.gadgetreview.com/2013/07/now-you-and-your-friends-can-borrow-a-google-street-view-camera.html
<Myrtti> http://areena.yle.fi/tv/2367026
<DJones> THat looks better than the backpack cameras
<DJones> Probably a lot more stable as well
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Great Fire of London Day! :-D
 * davmor2 sets fire to London to celebrate
<davmor2> damn they learnt their lesson and built it out of non flamable stuff
<DJones> The Scotland, Wales, Ireland and the North of England joins in the celebration
<foobarry> i've got the wii sports resort song stuck in my head today
<foobarry> better than "in the night garden" yesterday though
<awilkins> Wii Sports Resort + In the Night Garden ....   Archery would be very satisfying with a different targets
<foobarry> lol
<foobarry> hello iggle piggle OOOF
<awilkins> Mini-game : Make the longest Tombliboo kebab you can.
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<popey> word
<brobostigon> afternoodlings bigcalm
<bigcalm> the
<davmor2> popey: up, it's the code word
<bigcalm> Can one check the battery % from the CLI on a laptop?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: in /sys/ somewhere
<MartijnVdS> find /sys -iname \*batt\*
<bigcalm> upower, found it :)
<bigcalm> To find out paths: upower -e
<bigcalm> Then upower -i /some/path/for/battery
<switchtehbeat> yep, there's no girls on the Internet....are there any girls lurking here? I could really do with your help! :(
<Azelphur> !ask | switchtehbeat
<lubotu3> switchtehbeat: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<switchtehbeat> I'm a little too shy to say here tbh
<Azelphur> whelp, can't help without a question
<Myrtti> 'women' maybe, dunno about the girls
<switchtehbeat> a woman would be good too lol
<switchtehbeat> I wanna start online dating but not sure what to say :/
<diddledan_> #ubuntu-uk changed it's name to #dating-advice?
<popey> switchtehbeat: the truth
<switchtehbeat> yeah, didn't you know?
<switchtehbeat> :P
<Azelphur> yea, the best place to start would be a dating website and not #ubuntu-uk :P
<Azelphur> aww, he left and I was actually about to give him an actual decent answer.
<Myrtti> well
<Myrtti> getting to know people in IRC isn't unheard of
<Azelphur> Myrtti: indeed it isn't, but that has to happen naturally and not be solicited
<Azelphur> unless you're in #dating :P
<Myrtti> I know one couple that just recently got engaged and for all I know married too, that got to know each other on Ubuntu IRC channels.
<Azelphur> cool :)
 * penguin42 wonders if they use MATE
<Azelphur> Myrtti: yea, not disputing that it does happen, just that it's rare, and I also highly doubt either of them came to #ubuntu-uk asking for a date :P
<Myrtti> I'm not a great advocate of dating sites
<Azelphur> Myrtti: me either, having used a bunch of them.
<popey> s/used/hacked/
<popey> â»
<Azelphur> popey: why not both? :P
<Azelphur> although my answer would be blind leading the blind considering I'm still single xD
<Azelphur> but, myself I think volunteering at places is great for meeting people, and plus it's fun
<popey> i was having this very discussion with another internet singleton yesterday and suggested volunteering
<Azelphur> yea, imo it's the way to go, it's very rewarding without the date, and if you get a date while doing it then bonus :)
<Azelphur> If you want to laugh hysterically, grab an Android phone and ask it "how many zeros in a googol"
<Azelphur> (in google now)
<diddledan_> I've not got a good enough connection to get it to work
<popey> Azelphur: also ask it what does the fox say
<Azelphur> popey: done that, but this is far more brilliant than what does the fox say :P
<diddledan_> bloomin middle-of-nowhere in devon
<Azelphur> hehe
<popey> i gave one of my nexus 7's to sophie
<Azelphur> popey: I gave my 2012 to my mum, she loves it, plays scrabble on it all the time
<foobarry> diddledan_: whereabouts?
<diddledan_> foobarry: in the country surrounding axminster - somewhere called colyton
<foobarry> devon does midle of nowhere  very well
<foobarry> i see you are near Beer
<diddledan_> yeah
<popey> nice down there
<diddledan_> true, is very pretty, but no internet at all
<foobarry> we had wifi in the cottage, but no mobile signal
<foobarry> for miles around
<diddledan_> yeah we've got wifi but it is very intermittant
<popey> i recall going to a place in the middle of nowhere down there, got a little 2G along a dark path
<popey> photo somewhere of me with my laptop on a fencepost
<bigcalm> Evening Alex
<moreati> yo
<popey> word
<moreati> bigcalm: from your tweet this morning I was expecting a 'we're expecting' photo. The pink elephant was a bit of an anti climax
<bigcalm> Purple :)
<moreati> royalty eh
<moreati> I only just twigged, https://twitter.com/bigcalm/status/502072369364873216 is probably why most pills taste so nasty
<bigcalm> Aye
<bigcalm> moreati: heard of / attending Hackference in Brum?
<moreati> yes, no
<bigcalm> I've been handed a 60% discount code. Wondered if it was worth attending
<bigcalm> Aww, you're no use :P
<moreati> it clashes with PyCon UK, but also the talks didn't interest me enough for the price
<bigcalm> Just seen the price, humf
<bigcalm> Even at 44 quid, don't think I will
<bigcalm> Numbers are fun. Just built version #128 of a project
<shauno> you know you're a nerd when 128 is a "nice round number" :)
<bigcalm> :D
<moreati> just whatever you do, don't call "or 1 MB" in year 9 maths class when the teacher announces the answer is 1024. Children have long memories
<shauno> it's not just children :/
<penguin42> and when you think that year 9 would only be at 512....
<shauno> I've lost track of the amount of things I've caught by realising that, eg, "32767 is a suspiciously round number".  but I still get odd looks for it
<penguin42> shauno: I started thinking that '65000' was a common number in news stories and graphed commonly occuring numbers (it isn't particularly...)
<Daryl> #ubuntu-for-all
<Daryl> oops
#ubuntu-uk 2014-09-03
<Myrtti> nice, Google Play has a discount on Nexus 5 if you get the LG watch.
<SuperMatt> Myrtti: is the discount worth it for the lg watch?
<Myrtti> not sure, I already have a Nexus 5 and wouldn't buy LG G watch. I'm waiting for the rounds ones.
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning SuperMatt
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: morning dude
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Another Look Unlimited Day! :-D
<Azelphur> happy what now?
<JamesTait> Something to do with having another look through what you're planning to throw out in case it can be donated or repurposed.
<JamesTait> Sounds like a dodgy 90s techno band to me.
 * davmor2 takes another look at what JamesTait just put then slaps him
<Azelphur> I see
<bigcalm> davmor2: joining us tonight?
<davmor2> bigcalm: hopefully but I won't really know till latter on
<bigcalm> Fair enough
<bigcalm> It's been rather quiet recently
<bigcalm> Does that always happen over the summer?
<davmor2> bigcalm: people apparently go on these things called holidays, I think they are over-rated myself
<bigcalm> Bah
<bigcalm> Gah. How do you unfullscreen a remmina session?
<foobarry> is there a hidden pixel in top right?
<davmor2> bigcalm: F11?
<bigcalm> davmor2: nope
<bigcalm> foobarry: is there is, it's being overridden by windows8 funkyness
<davmor2> bigcalm: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1509655
<switchtehbeat> skype@noreply.com is not a spam email is it?
<bigcalm> davmor2: yes, I saw that. There is now menu there :(
<davmor2> bigcalm: press esc
<bigcalm> Wow, alt+f4 closed it
<bigcalm> Did not expect that
<switchtehbeat> We are pleased to inform you that your name appear on the Skype Lottery Promotion held here in USA and we are giving out the total sum of $1,000,000 USD (ONE MILLION UNITED STATE DOLLARS) which is what you have just won.
<switchtehbeat> from noreply@skype.com
<switchtehbeat> that's spam?
<SuperMatt> yeah, that's spam
<SuperMatt> give us the headers of the email and we can prove it
<switchtehbeat> Skype <noreply@skype.com>
<switchtehbeat> headers?
<directhex> view message source
<SuperMatt> uhm... the code that makes up the email
<SuperMatt> are you using gmail or something else?
<switchtehbeat> gmail
<SuperMatt> if it was in your spam folder, then yes, mostl likely spam
<SuperMatt> but you can click on the drop down in the stop right of the email and click show original
<SuperMatt> and we're like to see the recieved line
<foobarry> can't believe thunderbird/lightning bug still exist where you can't close the reminders window
<switchtehbeat> for <multiple recipients>;
<switchtehbeat> HAHAHAHAH!
<switchtehbeat> thanks
<switchtehbeat> :)
<SuperMatt> bye then
<mapps> hello
<mapps> ;]
<SuperMatt> word up
<SuperMatt> switchtehbeat: you're back. glad we could help with the spam
<switchtehbeat> yeah thanks SuperMatt
<mapps> ;]
<mapps> he didnt win a million?
<mapps> :(
<SuperMatt> no :(
<mapps> ah well
<mapps> always tomorrow
<mapps> :D
<davmor2> one of these days I'm actually going to win something, be notified via phone and hang up on them, get a ping via email and auto spam it, and then get something through the post and shred it as junk mail :D
<Myrtti> weeeell
<Myrtti> http://yle.fi/uutiset/cross-border_money_laundering_enquiry_freezes_mega_car_centre_investment/7415161
<Myrtti> it's a bit depressing
<foobarry> davmor2: sounds unlikely...
<bigcalm> I just won Â£25 on NS&I premium bonds. Glad that Â£30K is being put to good use
<foobarry> "won"
<Knightwise> Ehlo
<mapps> yo
<mapps> wonder how much its costig me to recieve these calls
<mapps> annoying that you pay to recieve foreign calls
<Knightwise> Howso
<mapps> +350 gib
<awilkins> ?
<awilkins> This is alien to me
<mapps> well when they call my uk number from gib ..it costs them more
<awilkins> In the UK you don't pay to receive any calls AFAIK
<mapps> but iirc you the reciever also pay
<awilkins> Really?
<mapps> im sure you do if its from abroad
<mapps> yep
<mapps> when i phoned my mate from cz we both paid charges LOL
<mapps> thats why i guess vibre/skype are so good if you got wifi phone over them and its like mobile -> mobile anyway
<mapps> wonder what the girl i spoke to looks like..she sounds like she should be hot
<Knightwise> Hmm the hotter they sound the bigger the disappointment
<mapps> :(
<mapps> some kind of half spanish half gib hottie
<mapps> probably like some 20stone girl tho
<Knightwise> Indeed.
<mapps> place is 2mins rom work
<mapps> 2mins from europort avenue:D
<foobarry> if scotland vote 50.1 to 49.9 in favour of independence do they get it?
<foobarry> or does it need to be 70% or something
<ali1234> foobarry: simple majority
<foobarry> :(
<ali1234> https://www.gov.uk/government/topical-events/scottish-independence-referendum/about#what-happens-if-there-is-a-yes-vote
<foobarry> either way, 1/2 of the people will be annoyed, its hardly worth changing for
<ali1234> it's definitely going to be close
<ali1234> i think no will win though, just because people hate change and fear the unknown
<foobarry> somebody said over 60s shouldn't vote in it, but 8yr olds should
<foobarry> it doesn't help that alex salmond is an unpleasant character
<ali1234> compared to who exactly?
<foobarry> other humans
<ali1234> compared to other politicians he's almost normal
<foobarry> not compared to other policitians ofc
<mapps> how can i get
<mapps> http://radio.betfair.com
<mapps> to work on my phone?
<Azelphur> mapps: rtmp://wowza04.sharp-stream.com/betfairmp3
<mapps> thanks
<Azelphur> yw
<Azelphur> ali1234: I appear to have joined the C++ land.
<Azelphur> working on ownCloud client :)
<mapps> i was gonna go sthl today
<mapps> but didnt realise how far it is:)
<BigRedS> sthl? Don't they make chainsaws?
<Myrtti> stockholm? isn't that a bit far?
<mapps> southwell
<mapps> :D
<foobarry> shotwell
<doubaco> #ijustgotajob :)
<doubaco> just thought i'd share
<foobarry> \o/
<feisar> congrats
<SuperMatt> doubaco: nice work. doing what?
<mapps> found an apartment just waiting for my boss to send email of recommendation or whatever..they said letter..email will do:)
<mapps> http://propertygibraltar.com/details/to-rent-in-peninsular-heights_17_M506
<mapps> :D
<toufikda> hello can I get some help?
<BigRedS> only if you ask a question
<toufikda> sure thanks.. I didn't know how things work here so I'll ask my question
<mapps> no
<mapps> :D
<toufikda> I have just installed ubuntu 14.40 lts and configured my email on thundirbird. My problem is that after thundirbird imported all my emails from hotmail, they get all deleted sometimes when I restart my computer
<toufikda> and thunderbirds starts importing them again from scratch
<BigRedS> deleted in that they don't show up in thunderbird, or that they don't show up in hotmail?
<toufikda> in thunderbird
<BigRedS> ah, so hotmail still has them, but thunderbird has forgotten it downloaded them already?
<toufikda> exactly
<toufikda> so?
<BigRedS> I've no idea off the top of my head
<BigRedS> I don't use Thunderbird, but I recall it having a 'synchronize' feature that caused it to store the bodies of emails more thoroughly? Do you know if you have that enabled?
<BigRedS> It may be best to reask when there's more people arount - you've turned up mid-commute for much of the channel, I fear
<mapps> hang on it deletes them without you doing it? hen re imports?
<toufikda> in thunderbird inbox folder properties, there is a synchronize tab with the mention "Select this folder for offline use", and it is checked
<toufikda> so bigred, no more ideas then?
<toufikda> thank you then.. I will try to come back another time... any idea where i can get help on this?
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> the mzilla irc network
<toufikda> anybody can help?
<mapps> the mozilla irc network dude
<popey> also #ubuntu
<mapps> anyone able to recommend a laptop 17inch ..dont want a samsung after my touchpad broke after like 5months
<mapps> want a 17inch one to watch tv and films on..wont have a tv when i move :(
<combobulated> Is anybody else having alsa problems after the recent kernel security update?
<combobulated> I see no sound cards listed in sound settings dialog now
#ubuntu-uk 2014-09-04
<vinny> hello my name is vinny im very new to unbuntu linux can some one answer some questions i have about how to intall this program on another hard drive?
<popey> vinny: picked a bad time for asking questions here. everyone is asleep
<popey> try in #ubuntu
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning all. WTF has happened to 14.04? Since an update this morning the system has gone really sloooow. Compiz chewing up > 170% cpu, load avg > 4... Oh, and the sound applet in the top bar has disappeared too.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Happy days :-(
<SuperMatt> I don't know. I moved to gnome-shell so I don't have compiz running
<diplo> TheOpenSourcerer, mine as well
<diplo> Xorg using a fair bit of CPU as well
<TheOpenSourcerer> FFS
<SuperMatt> gnome smell seems to offer me a more consistant experience across all my devices
<TheOpenSourcerer> Can we still drop back to a lighter Unity desktop?
<SuperMatt> gnome-session-fallback might be useful
<DJones> TheOpenSourcerer: I saw a comment by bigcalm that he'd had to reboot his desktop for some reason, don't know if that was the same, but I decided to hold off on updates last night
<TheOpenSourcerer> time to logout and try fallback
<TheOpenSourcerer> Not quite as pretty but it's working. Thanks
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's got that menu thing at the top too! Remeber that?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Now there's something called deja-dup-monito consuming 120% cpu?
<directhex> presumably it's md5summing all the things
<TheOpenSourcerer> FFS - Seems like Ubuntu got something badly wrong in the last update. Great load avg no 7... :-(
<TheOpenSourcerer> Time to go and get a coffee and see if it calms down
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oh goody - all calm now
<Myrtti> sometimes I do feel quite fortunate in the fact that Dell and Canonical have disabled upgrading to 14.04 for me
<foobarry_> wonders why p-pey was on irc at 3.25am ..unless he is far west of UK
<knightwise> morning foobarry
<foobarry> o/
<directhex> foobarry: the sun never sets on the empire!
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Newspaper Carrier Day! :-D
<foobarry> can someone pls remind me how to add another nick in freenode ?
<foobarry> to join it to my current nick
<JamesTait> foobarry, /msg nickserv help register
<DJones> foobarry: Point 6 on this website http://www.wikihow.com/Register-a-User-Name-on-Freenode
<JamesTait> foobarry, actually, I think you want group, not register.
<awilkins> foobarry_, do /msg nickserv help
<foobarry_> thanks, i got it
<foobarry> was annoying because one chan doesn't let you change from nick2 to your current nick if it isn't registered
<knightwise> hmm .. lii
<knightwise> looking forward to getting a new laptop for the misses .. That will free up the 11 inch Mb Air for my Linux excapades
<foobarry> my boy has an open source scooter http://i.imgur.com/AHJ066q.jpg
<foobarry> another boy at the park took his stickers off so i gave him ubuntu sticker sheet
<knightwise> oooh .. those exist ?
<foobarry> yes. the "super" key on all my keybaords has the ubuntu key now
<knightwise> cool .. where can you get them ?
<foobarry> got mine free at an event
<foobarry> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/08/ubuntu-stickered-my-keyboard-finally-gets-ubuntuized
<foobarry> http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=718
<foobarry> sorry first one is wrong link
<foobarry> good quality stickers
<DJones> knightwise: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-uk/2014-August/037838.html Might be of interest as well
<knightwise> Thanx :) DJones ... looks like i'll have to send a stamped envelope i presume ?
<DJones> knightwise: I would assume so, maybe drop them an email first
<DJones> Not sure which stickers they have, so might be worth asking for a scan/image of them before ordering
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<popey> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/09/04/ubuntu_14_10_betas/?page=2
<popey> â»
<foobarry> i look forward to wallpapers of unicorns riding on rainbows
<DJones> That Ubuntu Mate screenshot looks the spitting image of old gnome
<foobarry> didn't realise what a difference a  poor scrollwheel makes
<foobarry> compute feels fast now
<popey> DJones: kinda the point ã
<knightwise> hahah :)
<knightwise> Giant Dalek 'To Victory" poster arrived for the office :)
<foobarry> no yum installed on this centos server :(
<davmor2> foobarry: no they use a new tool now :)
<davmor2> foobarry: try pirut I think I'm pretty sure I saw something about it anyway
<foobarry> i think the person provisioning the server screwed up
<foobarry> will have to rpm -i yum.rpm
<diplo> Need sqlite and python-sqlite from memory foobarry
<diplo> in case they're not installed
<foobarry> "think i will delegate
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
 * penguin42 yawns at bigcalm
<davmor2> bigcalm: morning how did it go last night?
<bigcalm> davmor2: went well. Me, Ron, Alex, Chris, Ad, Simon & Sam. And we talked about Linux things all damn evening
<bigcalm> I think that's pretty rare
<davmor2> adam was there and you talked about Linux that must be a record
<knightwise> hmm.. i'm gonna try to see if i can install OSX in a virtualbox VM .. on a Mac Mini running Ubuntu.
<directhex> knightwise: not easily. virtualbox has no usable efi implementation, which makes installing osx tricks
<awilkins> Also, does OSX have any drivers for the virtual devices?
<awilkins> I thought part of the charm of OSX was that it only works on Mac hardware by design
<awilkins> Which means it has a limited pool of device drivers
<directhex> vmware fusion, and parallels, can both virtualise osx on osx
<awilkins> Presumably by just using the thinnest of shims on the real hardware
<knightwise> ah but that is the kick .. it IS running on mac hardware ,
<knightwise> but the host os is linux instead of osx
<awilkins> Don't know enough about BSD vs Linux driver interfaces
<awilkins> But I'm guessing they might be different
<awilkins> And no idea if VBox makes any attempt to replicate the hardware you're sat on - AFAIK it has a selection of emulated hardware that looks like common devices
<Myrtti> I hate all CMS'es. That is all.
<foobarry> +1
<shauno> I think virtualbox should run OSX now?  at least in Oracle's version, I can't say for OSE
<shauno> (but when it gives you the choice between osx-32bit and -64bit, never select 32bit.  It goes horribly wrong.  imho that option shouldn't exist)
<shauno> (10.6 is the last version that'll run on a 32bit processor.  10.7 is the first version that'll run in a VM without an osx-server licence. the combination of these two isn't pretty)
<SuperMatt> shauno: does that mean I'll be able to run OSX in virtualbox?
<ali1234> OSC can't run on AMD CPUs though, right?
<ali1234> *OSX
<shauno> SuperMatt: I believe so, yes
<bigcalm> Myrtti: WP not fitting the bill? It's what I used for my wedding site
<Myrtti> bigcalm: might, I haven't looked into how the multi language support goes nowadays though
<bigcalm> Myrtti: apparently WP is really quite mature now. ML support is good
<Myrtti> if dsample weren't adamant on his demand on having the site in Finnish, I'd just slap the whole thing on Google Sites and call it a day
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> Aww, you not doing Sweedish as well?
<Myrtti> what I specifically don't have time and patience for is to wait for him to code a thing with Ruby from scratch
<bigcalm> Ugh
<Myrtti> because ain't nobody got time for that
<bigcalm> Use WP ;)
<Myrtti> the website issue is basically the reason why the wedding planning had a two year hiatus as is
<bigcalm> I started writing my own photo booth application in python. It got abandoned and I ended up using an app on an android tablet
<Myrtti> I got frustrated in trying to get things first the way I wanted it, then gave up when I realised it would never be good enough for him
<bigcalm> o.O
<Myrtti> app on an android tablet?
<Myrtti> please tell me more.
<bigcalm> Um, one mo
<bigcalm> Myrtti: I used this one: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.groundupworks.partyphotobooth&hl=en_GB
<Myrtti> ah right.
<Myrtti> D might whip up something with a Raspberry Pi and a Canon camera that can be controlled with gphoto2.
<bigcalm> Hehe
<bigcalm> That's exactly what I wrote
<bigcalm> He's welcome to carry on with what I started
<Myrtti> do you have it in github?
<Myrtti> or somewhere?
<bigcalm> Myrtti: https://github.com/bigcalm/python_photo_booth
<Myrtti> ha!
<bigcalm> The idea is that you have a webcam for lining up the shot and then a DSLR for taking a good photo
<Myrtti> I might nag him into looking that today
<bigcalm> I found that the RPi wasn't powerful enough to give a responsive user experience. But the touch screen I bought works with a laptop with HDMI and USB.
<bigcalm> Still didn't have the energy to finish it in time, hence the android app
<bigcalm> When is the wedding?
<Myrtti> If I don't have a total meltdown before it, at the moment it looks like February
<Myrtti> started looking at venues and celebrants and photographers two weeks ago.
<switchtehbeat> anyone here who have virgin media as their ISP and know about download/legal issues? I could do with your help. :)
<Myrtti> venue will confirm which of the two possible weekends it might be in February, photographer and celebrant already confirmed both are ok.
<Myrtti> well, that was... patient
<bigcalm> Our photographer was Tony Whitmore. His availability dictated when we got married :)
<bigcalm> Having three quarters of the Ubuntu Podcast at our wedding was fun
<Myrtti> hehe, yeah, we'll probably get the guy who did my mums funeral photography (yes it's a thing in Finland)
<bigcalm> Goodness
<penguin42> I guess they don't need to be that good at action shots
<Myrtti> he's actually pretty good for what I can see. People seem to have always had photos taken at funerals (any family occasion, really) so we got a photographer to take some photos so the people wouldn't need to do it themselves.
<Myrtti> my cousin mucked that idea up by blocking the paid cameraman while taking photos with her small pocket point and shoot though, on a few shots :-|
<Myrtti> http://tommikappi.com/portfolio/dokumentaarinen_haakuvaus/
<foobarry> how do i ask dnsmasq what dns server it is using?
<SuperMatt> I think you might need to bribe it
<SuperMatt> I hear it's partial to neopolitan icecream
<foobarry> i have haribo
<SuperMatt> that might work
<SuperMatt> I can't guarantee anything though
<Myrtti> ooh haribo
<foobarry> 72p atm in sainsburys
<foobarry> my son wants this for chrimstas http://www.instructables.com/id/8-Bit-Mario-Blanket-Made-from-Granny-Squares/
<Myrtti> ooooohhhh http://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/multi-device-keyboard-k480
<penguin42> looks like a z88
#ubuntu-uk 2014-09-05
<knightwise> elleuw !
<map> yello
<knightwise> hey map , howzyou
<map> good tarr..yursekf?
<map> just watching cuckoo..not a huge fan of it but may aswell watch them all now i started
<knightwise> cockuu ?
<knightwise> aha
<knightwise> we are currently bingewatching Falling Skies on Plex
<MooDoo> morning all
<map> ah cool..never seen falling skies
<map> yea series1 had  andy sandberg
<knightwise> not bad actually
<knightwise> morning MooDoo
<map> its a bit lame but uk series only like 6 eps so after i watched 3 figured id carry on
<map> hey MooDoo
<knightwise> im picking up my synology nas tomorrow
<knightwise> looking forward to forking out the storage on a seperate machine instead of having usb 3.0 disks hooked up to the home server
<knightwise> chrome 64 bit appears to be quite stable as far as I can see
<MooDoo> knightwise: which one you gone for I'm looking at a 4 bay
<knightwise> a simple one DS214
<knightwise> 3 terrabytes is enough for us
<knightwise> the important documents also get stored offsite
<MooDoo> daubers: happy birthday mate
<knightwise> hmmm.. waiting for the amazon mailman today :)
<SuperMatt> are they doing final mile yet?
<popey> morning
<map> need to decide on a 17inch laptop son
<popey> ok dad
<SuperMatt> I had a 17" samsung which was awesome until it pretty much melted its insides
<mapps> i meant soon
<mapps> :(
<SuperMatt> like a week after the guarantee
<mapps> i was happy with samsung until my rv520 decided to fall apart..left toiuchpad button broken and a key fell off
<mapps> and then the power jack broke
<mapps> :(
<mapps> i was considering getting http://www.amazon.co.uk/Toshiba-Satellite-C70D-B-10U-17-3-inch-Notebook/dp/B00LFL8IGQ/ref=sr_1_3?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1409766455&sr=1-3
<mapps> its mainly to watch tv/films while away
<mapps> will be taking my netbook and other laptop too:)
<popey> i loved my old dell xps gen 2
<popey> till it died and dell refused to fix it
<mapps> :(
<foobarry> there was a bad era when nvidia used bad thermal paste or something
<foobarry> all laptops from that era were short lived, and many laptops were wrongly not included in the repair list
<foobarry> was a travesty
<MooDoo> my boss is really struggling with his nvidia, just can't get it working properly with gnome3, it's one of these optimus ones
<foobarry> does it have a switch auto/speed/other ?
<foobarry> i used a sony vaio for a while that used the nvidia card on the performance switch and intel on the other
<foobarry> how can get-iplayer get programme b04grp09 ?
<Guest54866> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Bring Your Manners To Work Day! :-D
<MooDoo> hello James, good day to you sir
<foobarry> get_iplayer --nopurge --get 473 works, but i can't remember the iplayer pid version
<Myrtti> get-iplayer --pvr â¥
<popey> foobarry: yes, it was that time but dell refused to replace mine
<popey> foobarry: and when i said to the guy i wasn't satisfied with his service he argued with me
<popey> then put me through to his manager who continued to argue with me
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<foobarry> my non techy friend had an HP that was clearly suffering from this problem and exhibiting weird video behaviour. hp refused to do anything, so he bought another HP!!!
<foobarry> sucker
<foobarry> amazon doesn't seem to have noticed the new moto phones
<brobostigon> you mean the updated moto g ?
<foobarry> yeah
<brobostigon> i have the moto g 4d/lte with cm11 on it.
<brobostigon> 4g*
<foobarry> i held off on that because of the problems
<brobostigon> which problems? i have havent had any serious problems yet,
<foobarry> bunch of sd cards don't work
<foobarry> been all over the forums. sounds like you were lucky
<brobostigon> i see.
<brobostigon> yes.
<foobarry> thats the one i wanted, since the 5 inch screen doesn't appeal to me
<brobostigon> ah.
<Myrtti> ooh, Moto 360
<foobarry> but i fear it will be an unloved step cchild
 * brobostigon hugs his pebble.
<foobarry> chromcast back up to Â£30 on amazons
<foobarry> brobostigon: does the new moto G not have LTE?
<brobostigon> no idea, havent looked at the specs.
<foobarry> no mention of it
<foobarry> that would suck
<foobarry> might as well get the original model
<Myrtti> no it doesn't
<foobarry> suck^2
<MooDoo> it's all gone quiet
<foobarry> who uses o365?
<foobarry> i just discovered the most hideous thing
<MooDoo> foobarry: not now, cancelled it last week
<foobarry> my username on the web interface is foobarbaz1234 but the user is actually foobarbaz123456789 which is need to use for IMAP
<foobarry> why WHY WHY
<foobarry> they truncated the username on the web
<foobarry> gonna queue up overnight for this http://damn.com/p/leave-it-to-ikea-to-show-us-how-stupid-apple-is
<penguin42> foobarry: Ikea are one of the few companies who manage produce ads to the same quality as Apple
<MooDoo> i saw the advert this morning, it made me chuckle
<MooDoo> any one else having issues logging into wiki.ubuntu.com
<MooDoo> ?
<MooDoo> I'm in now, was just taking an age
<penguin42> MooDoo: Yeh it's taking ages from the 'Personal Data Request' of ubuntu1
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MooDoo> penguin42: i got in, just wanted to edit my wiki page
<MooDoo> morning bigcalm
<penguin42> MooDoo: Yeh so did mine eventually
<MooDoo> darn i have two wiki pages, no wonder i was getting confused
<mapps> hm
<daftykins> hey all
<daftykins> been away for a few days, on Thursday evening i had a bike cycling accident down one of Guernsey's very large hills
<daftykins> i ended up in intensive care at the local hospital for a few days, having broken 3 ribs and my scapula (shoulder blade)
<Myrtti> OUCH
<daftykins> i was discharged at last Tuesday afternoon and have had the kindness of friends help me out until now :)
<daftykins> unfortunately my right arm is practically useless so typing is a pain, even if my keyboard didn't drop keys all the time
<popey> youch!
<daftykins> i'm also prone to some bad mood swings at the moment so i'm going to be avoiding my usual help giving in #ubuntu - for the sake of politeness
<popey> i had a co-worker friend who fell off his bike. had bad amnesia.. forgot the previous two weeks of his life.
<daftykins> (due to the head injury)
<popey> thats normal for you surely ? â»
<daftykins> lol, well i was going to say, yeah
<daftykins> wow! yeah i had 30 mins of amnesia so i don't even know what happened
<penguin42> daftykins: Well, good to still you're in one..erm 4 or 5.. piece
<daftykins> quite glad to have not known the pain of the event to be honest
<penguin42>  ^ see you're still in ...
<daftykins> i have a huge hole in my head with 5 stitches, hugely swollen up at the moment
<penguin42> ouch
<penguin42> daftykins: Try to remember not to do that again
<daftykins> i punctured my lung slightly too, but it was pretty minor
<daftykins> lol yeah, it's really bugging me that i don't know what happened though
<penguin42> I think that's why people have the cameras
<daftykins> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbnEZ9kLP5E
<daftykins> if you're interested, and the only way i found this out was by going to the police station to ask, the accident happened on the corner with the chevrons at 0:42
<daftykins> at least, the policeman sent me a pic at that corner with my bike propped up against the hedge
<daftykins> he wouldn't let me have any of the ones with my blood in :(
<daftykins> he was concerned i'd post them to facebook or some such Â¬_Â¬
<penguin42> and that's why you wanted them....
<daftykins> no sir
<daftykins> can't stand that tripe
<daftykins> i just want to understand what happened to me
<penguin42> daftykins: Well, good to see you're mostly OK
<daftykins> :) ty sir
<daftykins> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8M-LE3YNHk
<daftykins> there's a vid of the motorsport they do on the hill i had my accident on
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/acojtg3y1i66d67/AACI7b4Lg9CakBRWjCmCGNasa?dl=0
<daftykins> my bike after the accident
<penguin42> bikes never seemed a good idea to me
<shauno> I saw a little nissan micra wiped out today.  I was half impressed they managed to get it through a wall.  but I'm not sure where the other half was
<foobarry> on a different tangent http://www.theguardian.com/books/booksblog/2014/aug/07/five-worst-book-covers-ever
<foobarry> "Orwellâs bleak vision of the future looks kind of sexy on this misleading cover of 1984"
<gebbione> hi i have some weird behaviour in gnome latest 14 release, cannot expand folders (there is no expand icon) and cannot resize columns while browsing folder
<gebbione> any suggestions
<gebbione> hi i have some weird behaviour in gnome latest 14 release, cannot expand folders (there is no expand icon) and cannot resize columns while browsing folder
<gebbione> any suggestions
#ubuntu-uk 2014-09-06
<SuperMatt> huh, I'm liking opensuse factory
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<popey> yo
<brobostigon> morning popey
 * brobostigon had a date, with his former finace last night.
<brobostigon> fiance*
<foobarry> how did it go?
<foobarry> also brobostigon , have you noticed battery life is worse using 4g/LTE?
<brobostigon> with weak signal, yes,
<brobostigon> it went well, ty.
<brobostigon> ST:FC 1pm film4, :)
<foobarry> went for a drink/dinner?
<foobarry> my wife says she loves ST;fc
<foobarry> haven't watched it ever
<brobostigon> dinner, then cinema.
<foobarry> i rescanned my freeview box, now i lost the descriptions of the programmes i already recorded :(
<brobostigon> :(
<Azelphur> so, I got a leap motion
<Azelphur> now what xD
<Myrtti> yeah, we've got one too
<Myrtti> no idea what to do with it
<Azelphur> I installed desktopleapr, which is kinda cool if not buggy.
<mapps> hm
<mapps> still dont know when my lflight is..just between 17 and 21st
<mapps> annoying
<mapps> also annoying i broke my samsung laptop when trying to fix it
<Azelphur> :<
<Myrtti> I'm trying to make a wedsite.
<Myrtti> it sucks.
<mapps> yes
<mapps> i broke my damn mobo on my rv520
<mapps> when trying to desolder part of it
<mapps> :(
<penguin42> what were you trying to desolder?
<penguin42> power connector?
<mapps> yep
<mapps> :(
 * penguin42 bets people who know what they're doing can fix those
<Azelphur> This is fairly hilarious, bukkit, the minecraft library got DMCA'd, I got banned for telling them it was going to happen a couple years ago
<Azelphur> now fairly popular people are quoting me, saying I was right \o/
<Myrtti> I thought mojang bought it or something
<MartijnV1S> that's what several Mojangers said on twitter a week ago?
<Azelphur> yea, it has been DCMA'd now, I guess one of the developers didn't like that it was bought out / shutting down
<ali1234> link?
<Azelphur> ali1234: https://github.com/Bukkit/CraftBukkit ?
<ali1234> link to your post that got you banned?
<Azelphur> ali1234: it wasn't a post, it was in IRC
<ali1234> w/e :)
<Azelphur> anything I posted on the forum got deleted as "FUD"
<Azelphur> xD
<shauno> I Thought bukkit was essentially dead
<ali1234> most amusing
<marxjohnson> I just did a dist-upgrade on a 14.04 box. When I rebooted, I can see the Plymouth screen on boot and shutdown, but other than that, just a black screen.  I can SSH in, but that's it.  Can anyone suggest what I might want to look at?
<marxjohnson> to clarify, I can do stuff when SSHed in
<RaccoonCity> test
<RaccoonCity> Hello people.
<foobarry> ping
<marxjohnson> I uninstalled the proprietary AMD graphics driver and it's working again now. Must have been a problem with the update
<foobarry> pinterest is awful :(
<foobarry> cannot upload multi images. paste a link and it doesn't offer the images you want..
<mapps> hello
<penguin42> is BBC1/2 freeview EPG broken for anyone else?
<gebbione> cannot resize columns in folders anymore since upgradin ubuntu
<gebbione> anyone noticed/fixed it?
<gebbione> anyone alive?
<gebbione> gnome is really going bonkers
<gebbione> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2221949&p=13116509#post13116509
<n1md4> evening all
<n1md4> reckon anyone wants to help with a network issue?
<n1md4> admittedly not an ubuntu query
<n1md4> But I run ubuntu on my laptop, if that makes a difference? :D
<n1md4> Usually I'd not ask to ask, but on this occassion I'll wait for a reply.  Alternatively a good channel to ask a routing question.
<ali1234> !ask
<lubotu3> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<daftykins> n1md4: ##networking also
<n1md4> ali1234: I know ... but it might have got long winded.
<n1md4> daftykins: thanks.
#ubuntu-uk 2014-09-07
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<maaz_> Hello. I need urgent help here. Anyone kind enough to assist me ?
<brobostigon> well we cant do anything if you leave, :)
<SuperEngineer> vroom vroom time! :)
<diddledan_> morning
 * penguin42 yawns at diddledan_
<mapps> hey
 * DJones catches up with last nights Dr Who, When did the Tardis can upgrade so that it can go to exacty when and where its told to go to
 * popey hasn't watched it yet
<brobostigon> atleast the  tardis console doesnt look like a bong anaymore.
<nigelb> hahaha
<daftykins> i made a little mash up of before and after pics from my accident
<daftykins> one is pretty graphic of my stitches, so don't click if you're squeamish
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/sncjvrt3y1aocla/dafty.jpg?dl=0
 * popey is squeamish
 * popey clicks anyway
<popey> I saw an Occulus Rift devkit in CEX at the weekend
<daftykins> it's low res so you're safe (:
<popey> was tempted
<daftykins> :O! v1?
<ali1234> the DK1 is a bit crap tbh
<penguin42> popey: I saw Google Glass
<popey> Êâ¿à² 
<popey> in CEX!?
<penguin42> yes
<penguin42> look in their online thing they list a few
<penguin42> they're asking 995 for them
<moreati> I was struggling to work out why you were surprisde to
<moreati> see those at an international trade show, then the penny dropped
<daftykins> XD
<penguin42> moreati: There was supposedly some heavy restrictions in the agreement when buying them about resale, and it's also a bit odd to turn up in CEX
<moreati> penguin42: I was reading CEX and thinking CES
<penguin42> ah
<ali1234> CEX is basically a shop that fences stolen goods so i don't see why they'd care about resale agreements
<penguin42> ali1234: Oh they're not as bad as some; they keep all the serial numbers logged
<daftykins> lol i'm too weak to slide my sash window shut, halp :(
<ali1234> did i mention that the oculus rift no longer works correctly in ubuntu? bug 1337641
<lubotu3> bug 1337641 in linux (Ubuntu) "Oculus Rift "drifts" on recent kernels" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1337641
<daftykins> lol at BIOS update suggestion, seriously.
<ali1234> it's not the first time i've had that either
<ali1234> and it's never a useful suggestion
<daftykins> :/
<penguin42> yeh that always get suggested - sigh
<ali1234> it's done by a script
<penguin42> ali1234: It's worth trying the upstream kernel ppa though to see if it's fixed before going further, it should only take a minute
<ali1234> yeah, i'll try it one day
<ali1234> there's only about three games that work with the oculus on linux
<penguin42> it's a curious bug to get a small rotation offset
<ali1234> it's down to the way head tracking works
<penguin42> what do they use - gyroscope?
<ali1234> it has multiple different methods
<penguin42> the kit I used back in '94 had a magnetic coil system (polhemus)
<ali1234> it uses the accelerometer/gyroscope to guess the approximate rotation
<ali1234> ie dead reckoning
<ali1234> and then it uses the compass to correct
<ali1234> the bug appears to make the compass not work, so it just relies on dead reckoning, which builds up error over time
<daftykins> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00KQEJBSW/
<daftykins> Amazon FireTV now available in the UK \o/
<daftykins> just got to wait for it to be truly cracked wide open ;)
<diddledan_> I don't want an amazon firetv 'cos it won't play googley play-doh purchases
<daftykins> it runs XBMC nicely :)
<zleap> hi
<zleap> looks like Munich is going to give away lots of 12.04 cd's to help increase adoption,
<MarkDude> :D
<zleap> i replied to the tweet on this and asked why 12.04 when 14.04 is the latest LTS release
<popey> zleap: 12.04 has unity2d, 14.04 doesnt
<zleap> ah ok
<zleap> so is 12.04 better for people then
<popey> for some people it may be
<zleap> ok
<zleap> hmm
<zleap> it would be cool if we could do something like that over here,  but i don't think libraries would go with it
<MarkDude> Just keep asking
<zleap> ok
<MarkDude> You never know- more likely are teaching areas- possibly schools
<zleap> local library already does code club (well exeter)
<zleap> and torbay librariesa re looking at it
<MarkDude> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8Co37GO2Fc
<zleap> maybe what is needed is to take a minimal ubuntu and add lots of coding programs to it
<zleap> so its a ubuntu-developer spin
<MarkDude> Best FOSS video I have seen in a while - Charlie ROCKS!
<ali1234> yes, make a developer spin already
<ali1234> do it
<MarkDude> dev spins rock
<rsol_> #emfcamp
<ali1234> over in #xubuntu we were brainstorming random ideas
<zleap> I am working on the docs for ToriOS which is a very minimal distribution based on ubuntu
<ali1234> one was to make a "extras" iso, with things like libreoffice, gimp, inkscape, devtools
<ali1234> this oculd be shared between all the different versions
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> once its finished,  and out of beta / alpha then that is a good time to start on different spons
<daftykins> different spoons :D
<ali1234> it's never finished
<zleap> out of interest if I took lubuntu minimal on a sd flash disk thing, and booted live and installed stuff it SHOULD keep the installed programs right, so in a way i can do the same thing that way
<ali1234> no idea
<zleap> ok
<zleap> i don't really understand how all this works
<zleap> but a developer edition would be good and would tie in realy well with the curriculum
<Azelphur> ali1234: whelp, this should be interesting
<zleap> as there are also loads of e-books out there and even the ubuntu full circle special editions that could be included
<Azelphur> I'm about to be officially on a Bitcoin salary
<zleap> ohhh
<zleap> when i boot back in to torios Livce later on i will see if scrot is still installed, if so my what i said would be the case
<zleap> so i then take ubuntu mini and add stuff to it
<zleap> then work out how to make an iso from that flash disk
<ali1234> hetzner problems?
<ali1234> am i even connected?
<Azelphur> ali1234: yup
<ali1234> i don't understand
<diddledan_> ali1234: I'm having hetzner issues too
<ali1234> i'm connected to irc through our server
<ali1234> but i can't create any new connections at all
<ali1234> weird
<diddledan_> ditto
<diddledan_> I just lost connectivity and my website went down
<ali1234> yeah, same
<diddledan_> it appears back up for me for now but I'm still getting alerts about services being down
<diddledan_> unrelated but my company's servers in a pulsant datacentre in reading are also offline
<diddledan_> my website is behaving like a yoyo right now
<diddledan_> I'm surprised I've remained connected here
<daftykins> diddledan_: hi sir
<diddledan_> ello
<diddledan_> on the phone :-)
<daftykins> at this hour :o
<ali1234> yep same
<ali1234> it's on http://www.hetzner-status.de/en.html now
<daftykins> just seen a site fail to login that did a few mins ago, could be related
<ali1234> on the phone to hetzner? ;)
<diddledan_> nope, pulsant :-)
<diddledan_> boss comes first :-p
<diddledan_> re: hetzner: The Problem should be fixed. Our current analyses of the issue showed that a core system in Falkenstein stopped forwarding traffic while still participating in Routing Protocol. We'll closely monitor the further behavior and will discus this matter with the manufacturer.
<ali1234> cool. it does indeed seem to be working okay now
<diddledan_> yeah, I've not had any alerts for a wee while now
<ali1234> we just launched our new website today
<ali1234> and now everyone thinks it doesn't work
<diddledan_> grr
<ali1234> you know, i'm pretty sure that router has been acting flaky for about a week now
<ali1234> i guess it finally properly died
<diddledan_> thank goodness for our tooling - I just relocated the company website to a secondary server in a different datacentre (my pulsant datacentre issue caused it to go down)
<diddledan_> thankfully that's the only public service which appears to be affected - we're unbalanced it seems
<diddledan_> all our others are already in the datacentre that I migrated to rather than being evenly spread between the two centres
<Azelphur> Contracts are all signed now, I'm officially on a BTC salary :)
<diddledan> oh dear, still intermittent?
<ali1234> seems okay here
<ali1234> http://drumoff.tv/
<diddledan> I guess it's just a case of monitoring it
#ubuntu-uk 2015-08-31
<maps> hi;]
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<daftykins> heya
<maps> cool tv night
<maps> fear the walking dead:d and the strain
<daftykins> :P
<daftykins> yawn!
<maps> lol
<maps> u dont watch either?
 * zmoylan-pi reads pages on xmodmap to work out how to add page up down to a blue tooth kyboard without
<maps> without?;)
<zmoylan-pi> it seems more and more keyboars don't have such keys anymore.  have a look at chromebooks for example and a fair few laptops
<daftykins> Extant is the only thing i have current, it's terrible too
<daftykins> ooh i need to get Mr. Robot now
<zmoylan-pi> i thought this weeks episode was delayed
<daftykins> oh yeah
<maps> hahah you still watch it yet its terrible?:P
<daftykins> for some reason i thought it'd already been a week XD
<zmoylan-pi> as season finale had a shooting like the one last week
<daftykins> maps: yeah it's become more of a testament to my dedication XD
<maps> heh
<daftykins> me and some mates have a collective cringe about it
<daftykins> i'm definitely not getting a season 3 though
<daftykins> it's so pants
<zmoylan-pi> people watch bad movies, why not bad tv?
<maps> i looked at dominion/dark matter and a few others..ight picku some more but i watch a lot of seasons as it ls; major cries..murder in the first..the strain..complications...the brink...fear the walking dead.walking dead...scream..izombie...graceland..american oddyssey..its always sunny in philly..the league..mr robot.criminal minds.....marriedotive..kevin from work..suits..ray donovan..true detective
<maps> some are on a break atm
<maps> gonna start vikings soon
<zmoylan-pi> they look for extras for that every year here
<maps> whres it filmed
<zmoylan-pi> down in wicklow i think, a few miles south
<zmoylan-pi> http://www.thelocationguide.com/blog/2014/03/ng-television-vikings-tv-drama-gets-third-series-filming-on-location-in-ireland/
<daftykins> :)
<zmoylan-pi> i usually see fliers on shop counters
<maps> why dont u aply:)â
<maps> apply
<zmoylan-pi> not my thing
<maps>  nyone watched san andrea? started watching it earlier;D
<maps> hm
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<popey> yo
<zmoylan-pi> tis a bank holiday in uk so everyone will be out sitting in traffic as is the custom there, no? :-)
<popey> everyone staying at home I imagine, given it's pissing down
<Nokaji> It's the monsoon season here in Blighty
<Nokaji> Mad dogs and Englishmen go out in the noon-day sun however currently there ain't none
<popey> https://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/3iykdi/are_farts_stored_as_compressed_gas_whats_the/  important questions which must be asked
<brobostigon> lolz.
<OhThatsWhy> Afternoon happy campers.
<OhThatsWhy> Who's going to badvoltage in Germany here ?
<OhThatsWhy> no-body about.
<OhThatsWhy> Jono's doing Mycroft. Are you ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZujfUHIaAXM
<OhThatsWhy> still no-body about.
<zmoylan-pi> bank holiday means fewer people about
<bashrc> tumbleweeds roll by
<m0nkey_> sadly not a holiday in the great white north
<zmoylan-pi> no tumbleweed in dublin city centre.  lashing rain did clear the streets of tourists though.
<brobostigon> rain here as well in the cotswolds.
<penguin42> started raining here in Manc as well - I walked about 3 miles and it only rained in the last 0.5
#ubuntu-uk 2015-09-01
<diddledan> does anyone implement finger these days?
 * diddledan fingers himself
<diddledan> hmm, not installed
 * diddledan installs first
<daftykins> sudo apt install finger
<daftykins> sudo dpkg-reconfigure finger --cuticle-trim
<diddledan> On since Fri Aug 28 19:53 (BST) on :0 from :0 (messages off)
<penguin42> ????
<zmoylan-pi> !weather alert canada
<lubotu3> zmoylan-pi: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<bujji> how can i close open ports..
<daftykins> not him again :P
<czajkowski> Aloha
<daftykins> o/
<diplo> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diddledan> morningh
<diddledan> daftykins, OMG OPEN PORTS!
<zmoylan-pi> such a tragedy on b5... :'-(
<diddledan> ?
<zmoylan-pi> someone hasn't watched babylon 5...
<diddledan> ?
<zmoylan-pi> open ports caused a needless war
<diddledan> oic
<awilkins> It was the supposedly more enlightened and advanced guys too
<awilkins> I mean, in what universe is opening your gunports on first contact with an alien race considered good form
<zmoylan-pi> it's their custom sorta of how ships used to fire a salute before entering a harbour to show their guns were empty
<daftykins> =]
<daftykins> diddledan: i like the web dev earlier who works from Windows, but then copies the files onto a Linux VM to view
<diddledan> I didn't see them
<daftykins> nah was quite late
<daftykins> or the second web dev who wasn't sure how to change apache's doc root
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> ah yes, reading news online from my phone... linked youtube video, send to Kodi -> up it comes on the TV :>
<diddledan> anyone tried either kdeconnect or nuntius on a stock ubuntu? (using unity-wm)
<diddledan> nuntius is at https://github.com/holylobster/nuntius-linux
<diddledan> and kdeconnect at https://community.kde.org/KDEConnect
<diddledan> the text at the top of the kdeconnect page is a bit weird: This is the comunity page for KDE Connect. It should contain useful and up to date resources for both users and developers.
<diddledan> so it "should" contain, but it doesnt?
<diddledan> should = will?
<diddledan> should = does?
<diddledan> should = if you edit it don't put crud in
<diddledan> ?
<diddledan> wikipedia would claim weaselwords
<zmoylan-pi> it's linux documentation, if it exists it's obsolete :-)
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: i'm glad your pessimism is platform agnostic :>
<daftykins> hehe, i've got to ride my high end bike to the shop to get some brake pads, new seat post and maybe get a brake bled (hydraulic)
<daftykins> it's gonna be such a ridiculous slog even along the flat from home here, since i've got my downhill tires on already
<ujjain> Anybody here knows networking?
<ujjain> My team of Developers moved to a different building. AWS was 10.x.x.x and their PC's also 10.x.x.x. Now their PC's have 172.18.x.x as IP range and they cannot access the AWS environment. What now? Networking suggests a firewall change has to be done.
<diddledan> if you have a "networking" who are suggesting a fix then surely by their name being "networking" it's their remit to fix it themselves
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> surely if it's AWS it's online?
<ujjain> fair point
<ujjain> uh, it's only using internal IP ranges AWS
<daftykins> so you VPN to one then it lets you hit all the test VMs on there? o0
<ujjain> uh, yeah, if you can access the management net
<ujjain> you can access SSH network-wise on all servers
<daftykins> i have zero experience with AWS to get how you connect to it initially :)
<diddledan> AWS has a VPN endpoint you can pay for
<daftykins> o rly
<diddledan> it's part of their VPC offering
<daftykins> ujjain: is that how it is?
<ujjain> right, VPC internal IP's yeah
<ujjain> you have to manually give it an external IP, not by default
<ujjain> often you use load balancers with external IP's, servers almost never get an external IP
<jpds> ujjain: You have a site-to-site VPN going?
<ujjain> I don't know much about networking, that's why I asked a question. But we are in the same 10.x.x.x-range yes, servers and office network.
<daftykins> ujjain: i suspect you now have a new gateway IP and none of them have the right route out then perhaps
<foobarry> talk to networks
<jpds> ujjain: I would talk to the network guy in charge instead
<daftykins> can't say much more without knowing your setup - but as these guys say, surely you have the staff :>
<ujjain> ah ok, yeah, I'll give them some more information, that we are now in 172.x,
<diddledan> you really should NOT use the same IP range on your corporate network that you're using on the AWS VPC anyway
<jpds> Whatever's going on, it sounds _broken_
<foobarry> the problem tends to occur because people often use the whole 10.x with a 255.0.0.0 netmask
<daftykins> yep subnets should always be different
<diddledan> foobarry, part of the reason for that is certifications still teach "Class C" etc
<ali1234> does anyone remember that bug where anything you type into firefox goes into the wrong window?
<diddledan> CIDR did away with the "Class A", "Class B" and C
<foobarry> CIDR is harder to remember
<foobarry> 10.0.0.0/8
<jpds> foobarry: Should be enough IPs for the office DHCP server
<daftykins> naaaah it's in octets! :D
<diddledan> is there any difference between snaps and clicks?
<foobarry> fingers?
<foobarry> sister had her facebook password hacked, wasl well over 10 characters
<jpds> foobarry: What, no 2fa?
<foobarry> not exactly dictionary words either
<foobarry> how does the 2fa work? remembers the devices?
<zmoylan-pi> all it takes is logging in from one infected computer
<jpds> foobarry: Generates a code on your mobile that you enter after the password
<foobarry> and then remembers the device?
<jpds> You can do that
<zmoylan-pi> i got email from a mate over christmas a few years back when after he logged into his email from a relatives computer to check his email. the old robbed in london email send money
<foobarry> jpds: is that OS browser only? didn't get asked on my phone
<foobarry> after turning it o
<foobarry> n
<jpds> foobarry: It's any device it doesn't recognize
<jpds> foobarry: Clear your cookies on your laptop and try to log in again
<foobarry> it asked me for the desktop PC
<foobarry> didn't ask me for the fb app on my phone
<jpds> Because it's the one managing the 2fa?
<zmoylan-pi> or does facebook have the ability to track your phone number with your friends contacts list to identify your phone?
<foobarry> dunno
<foobarry> rebooting phone
<jpds> In any case, if someone tries to get into your account and doesn't have your phone but has your password, they can't get in
<foobarry> yeah
<foobarry> unless the PC is pwned
<foobarry> ah, no
<zmoylan-pi> unless they have some other vulnerability that we don't know about yet
<jpds> That doesn't matter
<foobarry> yeah my bad
<foobarry> i never login via windows PC anyway
<jpds> foobarry: Probably better to give 2fa to your sister
<foobarry> been getting a few surveys thru google opinion rewards
<foobarry> racking up play credit slowly
<foobarry> surveys take 10s to complete
<zmoylan-pi> i got a survey from mozilla recently, it was impossible to finish the survey without lying.  they asked which services you paid for online and you had to tick at least one option
<foobarry> what, like money?
<foobarry> apart from mashley adison?
<zmoylan-pi> who seem to keep adding users AFTER the hack went public
<foobarry> weren't there only 12000 real women on the site ?
<foobarry> the new users are journalists
<zmoylan-pi> 100,000 journalists? http://arstechnica.com/security/2015/08/what-us-worry-ashley-madison-says-it-added-over-100k-users-last-week/
<foobarry> i woulnd't believe a word the site says
<foobarry> their business model is morally dubious
<foobarry> and they force people to pay to delete their account
<zmoylan-pi> and illegal in some usa states i think
<popey> (and then don't delete it)
<shauno> I wonder how many of them are pranks, given that you don't need to verify your email.  launching it into the spotlight would give an uptick there
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<foobarry> anyone uploaded photos to google photos from linux?
<foobarry> using a script or app?
<zmoylan-pi> have a script to copy them to an android device and let it's privacy ignoring apps do the uploading? :-)
<jpds> zmoylan-pi: Remember, the tin foil hat just amplifies the brain waves
 * zmoylan-pi switched to lead foil as tin foil offers no protection these days :-P
<jpds> Pretty sure that'll poison you in the end
<zmoylan-pi> that's why i have it inside a frozen mercury shell :-P
<foobarry> discovered that firefox has a cool feature
<foobarry> it can screenshot a scrollable web page as a full page
<zmoylan-pi> that sounds cool
<foobarry> open the console (Shift+F2)  and type screenshot --fullpage
<foobarry> then come back and tell me i'm awesome
 * zmoylan-pi is currently at windows 8 laptop so makes note for later...
<foobarry> should be on all OS
<foobarry> unsure if thats true
<foobarry> *just made that bit up
<foobarry> anyone had experience using xprivacy android app?
<jpds> foobarry: "What's new, Removed support for Android Lollipop"
<jpds> foobarry: Classy
<foobarry> no
<foobarry> it requires manual install
<foobarry> of xposed framework
<foobarry> http://forum.xda-developers.com/xposed/super-alpha-posted-permission-xposed-t3072979
<jpds> I wouldn't even trust it at that point
<foobarry> xposed is a dependency
<foobarry> just need to read 596 pages of the xda thread
<foobarry> brb
<zmoylan-pi> can't you just read the last comment on the last page with the whole thread in one single post :-)
<foobarry> if only
<daftykins> anyone recall off hand which kernel raring used? (13.04)
<daftykins> 3.8 maybe?
<daftykins> yis \o/
<diddledan> daftykins, wow, was that guess correct?
<diddledan> fun: https://www.humankode.com/security/how-a-bug-in-visual-studio-2015-exposed-my-source-code-on-github-and-cost-me-6500-in-a-few-hours
<zmoylan-pi> i'm sure the eula for studio allows him to sue ms to get the money back... :-)
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: "Oh no I didn't follow best practices and put passwords in version control"
<shauno> interesting how everyone reads it slightly differently :)
<shauno> I mostly found it interesting that amazon doesn't have a 'big red button', even after they've told you your account is compromised, or you've called support to go staahp
 * diddledan likes big. red. buttons.
<directhex> there is a multitude of failures in this story
<directhex> and the guy committing his private work to a should-be-private repo is not the worst one by far
 * penguin42 is pretty paranoid about keeping git repos he pushes externally separate
<diddledan> WHEEEE
<penguin42> that's what I said when I was at GoApe earlier
<diddledan> camlistore looks weird
<penguin42> very nice goape actually
<diddledan> there's a presentation about it here https://youtu.be/kBCQq5hfsug
<penguin42> they had a zip line over the corner of a resioivoire
<diddledan> oops
<diddledan> where's that?
<penguin42> rivington, near Bolton
<diddledan> there's a zipworld line at bethesda
<diddledan> apparently it's the longest evar
<diddledan> or maybe the fastest. or both?
<diddledan> I holidayed there a couple months ago
<penguin42> yeh, unfortunately it's a real pain to get to by public transport from Manc
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> get on the number 9 from manc to hell
<penguin42> no, it's the number 8
<penguin42> that goes through Salford and Bolton, both of which are close to hell
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> I'm currently ripping "Thunderbirds remastered"Â£
<penguin42> it's basically 5 hours
<diddledan> 5 hours in hell is too long
<penguin42> true
<penguin42> diddledan: hmm, camlistore, so it's a storage server?
<diddledan> yeah
<diddledan> written in go
<penguin42> yeh which is better than the disaster of php that is owncloud
<diddledan> indeed, owncloud is a mess
<diddledan> camlistore looks pretty funky
<diddledan> and I'm only half way through their demo
<diddledan> they've got a "proper" fuse filesystem that doesn't just use rsync in the background
<diddledan> so you can actually have a 1PB file on a laptop with only 64GB of HDD
<diddledan> the google drive (e.g.) equivalent doesn't do that! :-p
<penguin42> do you understand much about object filesystem stuff - I'm gently trying to understand if you can build queues on them
 * penguin42 has a general evil plan of building a smtp-imap-gmail-like mail system on generic object storage
<penguin42> but it's only at the evil plan level
<shauno> don't do it man :(
<penguin42> you mean for my sanity?
<shauno> life's too short to try to implement smtp
<penguin42> well, I was thinking of gluing it at the back of an existing mta
<penguin42> apparently there's a closed source addition to dovecot to do this
<diddledan> postfix can probably be configured to store in random places via a local delivery agent
<penguin42> yeh I think that's how they set it up
<diddledan> e.g. instead of storing into a maildir/ you tell it to use `script`
<penguin42> yeh
<penguin42> diddledan: but does the incoming queue still live on the local disk?
<diddledan> I believe it just dumps the content of the email into a configured LDA like that via STDIN
<diddledan> yeah the postfix queue is unchanged in that instance
<diddledan> it's only the storage that changes
<diddledan> i.e. the final recipient's mailbox
<penguin42> so that's not bad, it would certainly avoid the reimplementing SMTP
<penguin42> but it does mean that 1) If you lose one of the front end hosts you lose the queue  2) You don't get the chance to do fun sharing of the mail contents/attachments if they're sent to a lot of people (or a list? does it expand the lists first?)
<shauno> that's how my mail's delivered
<shauno> it's piped into procmail
<shauno> (you can probably have some fun with milters in postfix too)
<maps> low and behold san andreas was boing...1hr54 of dull
<shauno> the one with the rock?
 * diddledan chooses paper and beats the rock
 * penguin42 points out 'The paper' only gets an imdb score of 6.5 compared to 'The rock's score of 7.4
<diddledan> what about scissors?
<penguin42> diddledan: 'The scissoring' (the closest I could find) hasn't got 5 votes yet
<diddledan> aww
<shauno> my third bug report ever \o/.  lets see if this has any more luck than the others  heh
<diddledan> oh?
<diddledan> what against?
<shauno> LDS
<diddledan> latter-day saints?
<diddledan> i.e. mormons?
<shauno> landscape
<diddledan> aah
<shauno> I just noticed my last bug, from 2011, is still marked as new :/
<diddledan> `o/
<diddledan> err \o/
<diddledan> silly keymap
<shauno> (I can't do much with it, the hardware involved doesn't exist anymore, so I can't confirm/deny)
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> so it's a bug in landscape itself you've filed?
<shauno> yeah.  I have the dedicated server (lds) installed and it's going nuts
<diddledan> oops
<shauno> a choice selection of cron jobs never end, so it slowly but surely fills the box
<shauno> I think at the very least, it shouldn't launch a new copy of a job if the prior copy is still running
<shauno> it wouldn't solve the fact that it claims scripts have a 10-minute timeout, and my oldest has been running since the machine booted.  but it'd at least stop it eating all available ram
<shauno> this is quite funny though;  http://i.imgur.com/x4ZJrW4.png
<shauno> you can actually see how many copies (currently 8) didn't die from the steps in the ram
<ali1234> this is why cron sucks and systemd is great :)
<ali1234> or so i'm told...
<shauno> edgy ;)
#ubuntu-uk 2015-09-02
<shauno> it should help though, I guess?  I know launchd has an ExitTimeOut value to kill processes that are too slow.  and from what I gather, that's basically what systemd is trying to be
<ali1234> systemd knows if the previous run is still running and won't run another one
<shauno> sadly most people just stick to cron on osx too though.  which is a shame, because it's terrible
<shauno> it still can't do basic tasks like run a job every n days
<diddledan> I find it interesting that all the things that were moaned about when launchd was first introduced as reasons not to use it in linux are the very same things that systemd is being lauded about as reasons to include it
<shauno> well, the primary reason not to use it on linux is that it has a very heavy dependency on mach
<diddledan> there is that
<shauno> it does several things in kernel-space that were traditionally done in userland
<shauno> eg, if you have sshd enabled on osx, you'll notice that sshd isn't actually in the process tree.  it's launched inetd-style
<shauno> but if you look at netstat, you'll see nothing's listening on 22 either
<shauno> inetd would listen on 22 and hand connections off.  launchd watches the connections get built up in the kernel and jumps in there
<diddledan> that's funky
<shauno> it is.  I'm still not sure what the benefit is either.  but it's a good example of launchd groping just a little deeper than we'd be used to
<diddledan> I wonder why they do that
<ali1234> speed
<shauno> a lot of the time it feels like 'why' isn't the question
<shauno> a lot of it just seems to be a side effect of having the launchd guys and the kernel guys sat in the same room
<shauno> instead of adding layers just because that's how the interface is meant to work, you can just ask jeff if you can mess with his sh...baby
<penguin42> well is it even the kernel needing to have that added or was it just a natural part of mach
<shauno> honestly, no idea.  I can rarely tell the difference between the two.  my only other exposure to mach was hurd, which is by now a strongly repressed memory
<shauno> although I'm curious to try launchd on freebsd now that that's most-working, just to see how much of it translates
<shauno> (freenas is apparently using it already, which is my value of 'mostly working')
<diddledan> freebsd is moving to launchd?
<diddledan> also, is hurd still a thing?
<shauno> but overall I like it.  mostly because launchd is actually capable of things like "every 5 hours" or "every 2 days"
<shauno> freebsd proper using it is a fun topic.  much like "should linux use systemd".  no easy answer.
<shauno> and hurd is as much a thing as it ever was.  which is both a yes and a no
<shauno> hm, they were talking about adding leap years and moon phases to launchd, but it seems it never happened.  bummer.
<shauno> I like the idea of scheduling stuff to run on a full moon.  just to make people cry
<diddledan> I would expect a nice job to implement is the "howl" program which every night between sundown and sunup on full-moons makes the computer randomly moan like a wolf
<penguin42> oh god; that could take someone years to find
<shauno> exactly.  it'd be worth it just for that moment when they eventually figure out the pattern
<penguin42> can you imagine an entire data centre doing that?
<penguin42> stood there and suddenly a few thousand machines start howling
<shauno> something like https://vine.co/v/eIXejbQ2utM  ?  (sorry, sound is required for this)
<penguin42> yes, but happening to someone alone in a datacentre at the dead of night
<shauno> little touches like turning all the blue LEDs red could destroy a person :|
<penguin42> hehe; I'm not sure if that's possible? The blue ones are normally special for the ID/hotpull?
<shauno> ah, here it is;
<shauno> I've occasionally wanted, just for giggles, to have launchd to support other time intervals such as "only during leap years" or the ability to schedule jobs based on the phase of the moon, or the solstices/equinoxes. I've even considered adding planetary alignment to the schema.
<shauno> that was actually from the guy who wrote it, which made me happy.  but it either never happened, or isn't documented
<penguin42> maybe he has to wait for a suitable planetary alignment to test it?
<maps> hi all
<diddledan> ello
<maps> ;]
<maps> been up all night?:P
<diddledan> aye
<diddledan> I need choccylate
<maps> quite a lot of decent shows on netflix...and a lot ive not seen
<maps> peaky blinders sounds good
<diddledan> I keep seeing that. I have no idea what the concept is tho
<maps>  Big stars (Cillian Murphy, Sam Neill, Tom Hardy) anchor this stylish '20s-era gangster series set to a moody rock soundtrack. At its best, this Brit crime drama surpasses Boardwalk Empire. At its worst, it's just as good.
<maps> sounds good to me
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<czajkowski> FYI folks https://plus.google.com/u/0/+TheNationalMuseumofComputing/posts/6JVAQPxNXs4
<MooDoo> howdy
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> :)
<brobostigon> :)
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MooDoo> howdy bigcalm
<arsenip> 5
<diddledan> allo folks
<foobarry> how can i remove apps from "my apps" list in play store?
<foobarry> (android)
<diddledan> no idea
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> you might be able to hide them
<diddledan> but I don't know how
<foobarry> seems i can do it from android phone, not from desktop
<diddledan> oddness
<czajkowski> aye you can add from the desktop
<czajkowski> but only remove from the handset device
<foobarry> sucks
<foobarry> in other news privacy guard looks amazing
<foobarry> not sure if it will cause unstable behaviour but i like seeing how many times each permission has been used by each app
<DJones> Heh, have to love the BBC news page "Pakistan has executed more than 200 people since December, almost all of them this year"  If its since December 2014, surely all of them would be would be this year
<penguin42> that's logic
<foobarry> got my new driving lincence in 3 days, that was quick
<foobarry> the letter said 3 weeks
<DJones> Don't know if this is of any interest to to anybody, job advert that I saw mentioned http://www.christianitytoday.org/careers/opportunities/front-end-developer.html
<foobarry> !ping
<lubotu3> pong!
<maps> :D
<daftykins> !pung
<diddledan> stink
<diddledan> quiet in here todya
<diddledan> is "todya" a russian word?
<penguin42> shhhh, you might wake us
<diddledan> oh dear. don't you feel a fool when you are on your own with nobody within earshot and you exclaim out loud?
<penguin42> no?
<penguin42> but then I work at home
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> and there I go again with the sniggering out loud with nobody within earshot
<daftykins> diddledan: i vote todyaski
<daftykins> that guy in the next flat over is nuts
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> yey?
<daftykins> in the above line i pretend i'm your neighbour
 * Myrtti throws cookies at popey to make an alert system for when Moto 360 for Women are in UK stock
<penguin42> hmm, what makes a Moto 360 for Women different from a Moto 360 for men?
<shauno> a narrowed band apparently
<Myrtti> thinner strap
<shauno> https://www.motorola.com/us/products/moto-360 has 16mm band for women, 20 & 22 for men
<penguin42> hmm
 * popey wonders why Myrtti thinks popey has such skills
<popey> I used to have a script which checked for nexus devices
<popey> but that was from nigelb I think and it broke
<Myrtti> oh.
<Myrtti> well, boo.
<popey> but now you have me curious :)
<nigelb> who? me?
<popey> maybe
<popey> maybe I am misremembering
<nigelb> I don't remember writing such a script, but I may have and forgotten about it :P
<popey> so basically watch https://store.google.com/product/moto_360_for_women for changes
<nigelb> Ooh. I have a script to watch a page for changes.
<nigelb> if the hash changes, it alerts you.
<nigelb> which I use for something else (assignments at my uni), but it'll work for this too.
<nigelb> Myrtti: if you'd like that, I can dig it out for you
<popey> <p class="out-of-stock-text">Coming soon.</p>
<popey> check for that in the page
<Myrtti> yes please. no hurry tho, I'm already in my jammies waiting for the clock strike midnight for my penicillin
<nigelb> I only check the page hash
<nigelb> if it changed, it alerts :)
<popey> urlwatch is in the repo
<popey> that might be enough
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/12257770/
<popey> works
<Myrtti> ok, will have a look tomorrow, four tablets later
<Myrtti> ta
<popey> np
<nigelb> Here's what I have http://dpaste.com/07HX4CF
<popey> useful tool that
<nigelb> ha, urlwatch is great. I should just switch to it instead.
 * nigelb goes back to bed.
<nigelb> I'm not entirely sure why I'm at 3:50 am.
<penguin42> Myrtti: Oh those very time locked antibiotics are very annoying
<Myrtti> I still don't recommend bacterial tonsillitis to anyone
<penguin42> ooh that doesn't sound fun
<Myrtti> eapecially 10 hour flight away from home. luckily our trip was nearly over so we didn't miss much, but flight home wasnt the most enjoyable even in premium economy
<directhex_> yeesh
<directhex_> i recommend not having the flu when going to a 3-day conference in california!
<penguin42> yeh that sounds like a bad idea, but there again, did you end up having to listen to all the confrence speaches?
<shauno> diddledan: http://paste.ubuntu.com/12258457/
<diddledan> shauno: looks like maybe bzcat isn't finishing?
<shauno> lots of things aren't finishing :/  but they do if I run them at the prompt
<shauno> I mean, they fail, but they fail properly
<diddledan> fooey
<diddledan> poke it with a pokey stick
<shauno> well, I'm away next week, so I'll likely just stick reboot in cron too
<diddledan> small nail.. meet nuclear weapons!
<shauno> eh, it's a nas, I can bounce it at 4am without anyone noticing
<diddledan> lol
<shauno> glad I stuffed 16GB in it though, else it wouldn't be lasting a day
<diddledan> as long as it's a `reboot` command and not something along the lines of "hello, UPS, please turn me off"
<diddledan> or maybe "hello IPMI, hit reset button plz"
#ubuntu-uk 2015-09-03
<shauno> actually, that could work.  landscape has an api, so just stick a script on something that polls the free ram, and kicks ipmi if it's got silly again
<shauno> but the only other computer that's always on is my appletv.  it'd be quite funny using that as a watchdog for my server
<penguin42> or setup watchdog to do it
<diddledan> lmao
<penguin42> shauno: Hasn't your machine got a builtin watchdog
<shauno> no idea, it's that little hp microserver
<penguin42> wouldn't be surprised if it did and it's probably easy to enable; and you just have to wire the watchdog to actually check on your service
<shauno> hm, outta curiousity, the appletv doesn't have uptime installed, but system_profiler shows the last boot as being the 30th of june, 2012
<shauno> well, for now I'm trying to leave it "broken" expecting them to come back with questions to my bug report, eventually
<shauno> the ram usage is growing by 3GB a day, so it's not just "this is a piddly server", but enough to cause problems for most.  if not this week, next
<penguin42> oh leaks like that are normally easy to find; it's the 1M/day that are hard
<shauno> oh it's not leaking, it's just never ending cron jobs
<shauno> so one starts, 10 minutes later the next starts, then the next ..
<penguin42> oh, any idea why they don't end?
<shauno> nadda.  in the logs they're complaining they can't connect to something (doesn't say what)
<shauno> if I run them in bash, they make exactly the same complaint but terminate
<penguin42> strace or ltrace on the hung one to see what it's waiting for?
<shauno> looks like it's just going around in circles trying to connect to localhost, but never giving up
<shauno> 5672, apparently somethign rabbitmq should be listening on
<penguin42> shauno: I'd try and get a core dump or backtrace from teh hung process to see exactly where it's hung
<shauno> it doesn't appear to be hung, it's just retrying forever
<shauno> hm, rabbit does appear pretty stuffed up though.  it launched loads of processes named get_inethost that don't seem to move at all
<penguin42> dns hang?
<shauno> hm, it seems to be hating something in /etc/hosts
<shauno> (of which there is not a lot)
<shauno> I just put every alias I could think of on 127.0.0.1 and restarted, and everything just went through at once
<shauno> so I've put it back as it was, will wait for it to break again, and then add them one by one tomorrow and see which one it was
<penguin42> problem resolving it's own hostname perhaps?
<shauno> it shouldn't do
<penguin42> or maybe it was triyng to connect to rabit on a firewalled external interface rather than the localhost?
<shauno> yeah, that's what I'm looking at right now.  host (myhostname) returns my public IP
<shauno> despite /etc/hosts having the short & fqdn on 127.0.1.1
<diddledan> hostname && hostname -f
<diddledan> double check that it has the right hostname comparing to /etc/hosts
<diddledan> and you reboobed since setting the hostname?
<shauno> -f has localhost, hostname alone gives fqdn
<shauno> and yes, I've reboobed lots.  and lots  lol
<diddledan> :-)
<diddledan> rabbit isn't configured wonkily to think it's not itself?
<diddledan> yey negative soup
<diddledan> you want double negative? hah, I see that and raise you a triple!
<shauno> hm, I can't find any config file for rabbit at all, so no idea what name it's looking for
<shauno> oh, nope, wild goose chase.  the queue emptied becaue the processes that are trying to talk to rabbit do bail if it's not running
<shauno> but the log for rabbit is 12G of http://paste.ubuntu.com/12258866/
<shauno> which probably means it's hating my ssl keys.  I think that can wait until tomorrow.
<shauno> (although I think the bug stands as entered, the complete lack of locking shouldn't bring down the machine)
<penguin42> right there's too separate problems; 1) Why the cron took so long  2) Why it ran multiple
<diddledan> I really should sleep
<maps> morning
<MooDoo> morning all
 * DJones looks at monitor prices, 27" LG Â£159, 27" Apple Â£739....., possibly different resolutions, but thats a hell of a difference
<MooDoo> It's coz it has the word APPLE on it, it's that 5 letter word that costs Â£700 :) monitor is about Â£39 :D
<zmoylan-pi> but one is made of kittens and unicorns and rainbows
<DJones> You forgot that the apple one is shiny
<zmoylan-pi> now with 10% more rainbows
<shauno> or you could actually try to compare like to like and see where it gets you
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<shauno> well, I figured out what was choking up landscape.  if LDS and rabbit aren't using the same hostname, things get ugly.  moving LDS into a vhost caused said ugly.
<czajkowski> those in London - canonical presenting at a meet up https://www.eventbrite.com/e/containercamp-day-zero-tickets-18239147782
<popey> morning
<czajkowski> popey: howdy
<brobostigon> morning popey
<diplo> Hey all, boss has asked me what spec I'd like for a server to run 6-7 minimal linux vm's ( used for testing / basic rpm builds etc ) no stressful work at all. Anyone recommend a small cheap box
<diplo> I think a tower is preffered and something that is not like a 747
<diplo> http://www.serversdirect.co.uk/HP_Tower_Servers/prod.asp
<diplo> ML range seem to be the one to go for I'm guessing
<foobarry> one with RAID
<foobarry> what hypervisor?
<diplo> yeah, although none of these VM's are critical and can be re-created easily
<diplo> esxi probably
<foobarry> ok, should probably check their compatibility matrix
<foobarry> hardware compatibility is not a given
<diplo> Good point
<diplo> I've had that issue before
<foobarry> i have issues with my emulex iscsi when it comes to host profiles
<diplo> I'm not against using kvm or something though
<foobarry> also had network card issues and SAS controllers
<foobarry> playing up, causing purple screens
<diplo> Seems the ml310 is support ok
<diplo> Also....
<diplo> I've got to write a document explaining why we need to upgrade CentOS 4 boxes in simple terms
<diplo> Struggling apart from right, because we're stupid not to
<diplo> :D
<diplo> Got to be in layman terms
<foobarry> E O L
<diplo> yeah done that part, we have serious issues with emails etc as well
<diplo> Our customers won't upgrade and basically after me explaining to our staff the reasons they want something to push customers to upgrade
<diplo> Not supporting TLS etc, shellshock...
<diplo> Trying to google something along the lines of why not use a EOL OS
<foobarry> costs in cleaning up centos4 systems after pwning could run to many 100s of thousand pounds
<diplo> yeah I've mentioned that, also asks my bosses who are liable
<TwistedLucidity> "You are out of support, you will not get any updates, you will be vulnerable to many attacks, you are negligent in not upgrading and may well find yourself on the wrong-end of a lawsuit"
<diplo> We've had two sites pwned already
<popey> "In the event that customer data leaks, you have no redress"
<diplo> Doesn't seem to sink in
<foobarry> think you need a new job
<diplo> I like that
<diplo> I do!!!!
<diplo> I made that decision whilst in these meetings
<TwistedLucidity> If they process credit cards, the CPA (or whatever it's called) may revoke their status
<TwistedLucidity> The ICO will have a monumental hissy-fit if there's a leak
<diplo> nah no CC stuff done at all
<TwistedLucidity> The ICO is toothless, but they'll make a lot of noise.
<diplo> But still ssh access and stuff
<diplo> They just don't see the implications
<TwistedLucidity> Any information they have can (and probably will) end up with a competitor
<foobarry> i am looking for a new sysadmin
<foobarry> amongst other jobs
<diplo> foobarry: we've talked before but seriously debating working distance now
<diplo> TwistedLucidity: I like that too!
<diplo> We use CISAM db, it's not very hard to get info out :P
<TwistedLucidity> Kinda hard to know what to say without knowing the business, but they could well be in breach of contract with partners/customers
<diplo> Half our email servers run sME Server 7 that are EOL ( CentOS 4 based ) as well, I spend most of my time massaging them to work, explained that too
<diplo> Work in wholesaling with ERP software
<foobarry> sounds like they aren't willing to learn
<foobarry> centos 4 is ancient now
<diplo> We're the software company selling the ERP but also do networks/servers for them
<diplo> Yeah was EOL 3 years ago
<TwistedLucidity> diplo: You host that or sell the hardware?
<diplo> And no they're not willing to learn, "It works"
<diplo> All of the above TwistedLucidity
<TwistedLucidity> Hello breach on contract.
<foobarry> we got pwned by anonymous a while back
<foobarry> can't tell you how, or why
<foobarry> but i think you can guess
<zmoylan-pi> you did something bad to kittens on the internet?!
<diplo> TwistedLucidity: but customers won't upgrade
<foobarry> they rolled a dice
<foobarry> and made 1+1 = 75
<foobarry> probably one of their last acts
<foobarry> misplaced activism
<awilkins> Aren't people deprecating support for CentOS _5_ now?
<foobarry> judge and jury doesn't really work when you're wrong
<TwistedLucidity> diplo: Well, that all depends on the customers' businesses.
<foobarry> do i686 and 64 bit libs both get installed by default?
<awilkins> I mean, it is on version 7 now
<foobarry> seem to have loads of 32 bit packages on a server (alongside 64 bit ones)
<TwistedLucidity> diplo: You should have come to the LBW, there was a story similar to this where a customer wouldn't increase their disc quota. Their entire enterprise went down, so the called up screaming. Not one finger did the provide lift.
<TwistedLucidity> Customer had had the order which simply required a signature for 6 months.
<TwistedLucidity> But "It worked" so they didn't bother
<TwistedLucidity> Until it no longer worked
<diplo> We had that a couple of weeks ago
<TwistedLucidity> And the provider didn't have the order and couldn't magic X TB out of thin air with zero notice
<diplo> Customer had been emailed/quoted multiple times citing no space on server and being 8 years old
<diplo> We didn't have space for backups
<diplo> They got infected with crypto, lost most of their samba shares
<diplo> + all their backup tapes with 7+ years old
<TwistedLucidity> Huh....there is one way to make them change. Alter your pricing.
<TwistedLucidity> Support for CentOS 7....Â£ X. Support for CentOS 4 Â£ Y. Where Y >>> X.
<foobarry> oh great, whatsapp spam. thats a new one
<diplo> I've told my bosses we need a clause in our contracts about OS age and space issues after they've been alerted and something happens they get charged the earth
<diplo> I like that TwistedLucidity, will suggest that
<diplo> Although can't do CentOS7 yet....
<TwistedLucidity> Well, 6 or whatever
<diplo> 64bit only, we can't get hold of Cisam 64bit binaries yet :/
<diplo> yeah
<zmoylan-pi> what happens if the support for centos 4 involves security, are you then liable?
<TwistedLucidity> When they say "Why?" say that, due to CentOS 4 being so old you have to now pay people squillions to try and back-port the updates. But it's best effort and you guarantee nuthin'
<diplo> I've asked this question... bosses don't answer or know..
<foobarry> "Guys remember to be careful when buying a new laptop for University! There is the terrible thing called "UBUNTU" which comes pre-installed on some Dell laptops. This may look like windows, but is far from it. You will not be able to access things like Internet explorer and Microsoft word. You will probably not be able to gain a college degree with i"
<shauno> in an ideal world, you could just say "because we say so.  that's what you pay us for" :/
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Huh?
<foobarry> foudn on a student facebook group
<diplo> shauno: yeah pity it's not an idea world
<shauno> no kidding :)
<diplo> We have one customer with a 15 year old server, won't upgrade because it works
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Well, of course. Although both those can be made to work if absolutely needed.
<diplo> Runnign RH 8
<TwistedLucidity> diplo: This like that are sometimes needed, but they tend to be connected to finicky equipment and air-gapped. I know loads of labs have to run that way.
<TwistedLucidity> The MasSpec will only accept XP and only XP will be accepted.
<diplo> That sucks, I take it that it's not networked anymore to outside network ?
<shauno> we're not allowed xp on the internal network, let alone external
<TwistedLucidity> Nope, air gapped like I say. Any transfer has to be by floppy (or USB in some cases)
<TwistedLucidity> Yes, I typed "floppy"
<TwistedLucidity> And yes, I know the USB could contain malicious executables but there's nothing they can do...supplier won't upgrade it - they want them to buy an entirely new piece of kit
<zmoylan-pi> 3.5" or 5.25"? :-)
<TwistedLucidity> 3.5.
<zmoylan-pi> 720k or 1.44mb :-D
<TwistedLucidity> 1.44
<zmoylan-pi> then what are you complaining for :-P
<TwistedLucidity> Oh, I don't give a crap about it. I was just pointing out that people sometimes have reasons for using out-of-date software.
<diplo> Our old HR system at the last place I worked had to be upgraded by floppies :D
<diplo> It was excruciating
<popey> I used to update BMW dealership parts databases via floppy
<popey> The parts PC (IBM PS/2 Model 50Z) was usually out in the service room, so caked in dust/smoke/crap
<popey> At once dealership it wouldn't read the floppy, so we took it out and chased it around the floor with an air line to get the crud out
<popey> worked perfectly after that
<shauno> I have zero nostalgia for floppies.  even my amiga has replaced it with a drive emulator
<zmoylan-pi> we had a pc in office above engineering works.  pcs kept blowing due to metal dust getting into power supply.  we put pc in pair of tights with hole for floppy. worked grand
<popey> hah
<MooDoo> i remember working for dixons support when a lady phoned up wondering why her machine wouldn't take disk 9 of her windows 95 insallation, when the engineer got there, the back of the floppy had bust off, she was just pushing more disks into the machine and the empty space in the computer just got full :D
<brobostigon> lolz.
 * brobostigon makes a note of that, for future reference.
<MooDoo> :)
<zmoylan-pi> i did find money had been pushed into a video point of sales system by some staff members.  luckily 5 pound notes didn't catch fire on motherboard
<penguin42> slot that looks like a note slot ?!
<zmoylan-pi> space between floppy drive and blanking plate for device below it
<zmoylan-pi> i also had someone try to install ram in their system by pushing ram through the same space on their system
<penguin42> ?!
<penguin42> what type of place is it you work in?
<zmoylan-pi> some people are not smart
<shauno> penguin42: Ireland ;)
<zmoylan-pi> the ram install specialists were just average home users who thought they could save money by installing it themselves
<shauno> or downloading more
<zmoylan-pi> i think one of my proudest moments was when the slowest but busiest system in the office used by a secretary wasn't going to be updated when i realised the case for the managers computer (fastest and least used) and swapped the cases :-)
<TwistedLucidity> shauno: Well...technically downloading more ram is (was) possible.
<TwistedLucidity> IIRC one could download a tool that allowed you to compress in RAM (maybe as a ramdisc? I'm talking ages ago), thus giving more in-RAM storage.
<Myrtti> right, time to have a look at that urlwatch
<TwistedLucidity> Which was more objectionable? The compression/decompression or the swap?
<shauno> (osx actually does this)
<zmoylan-pi> there were ram compressing tools, and the DID work but lost most of the gains by the bottle neck of the cpu utilisation
<zmoylan-pi> so it ended up as fast as virtual memory
<TwistedLucidity> Could probably off-load it to bespoke chips these daya
<awilkins> ex-wifelet had to use floppies to transfer data off a hospital radiology system
<Myrtti> can I somehow get more results of ctrl-r search on command line than just the latest?
 * zmoylan-pi seems to remember that hospital systems used 2.88mb ibm floppies
<awilkins> This was standard 1.44 HD ones
<zmoylan-pi> at least here in ireland for some reason
<awilkins> Hospital IT is a giant seething mess of evil
<awilkins> And I say that as someone who works in the sector
<zmoylan-pi> yeah, they have electronic records here in ireland but the doctors prefer paper as it works and doesn't crash
<zmoylan-pi> of course that means that i am the index to the huge bunch of paper that gets dragged out every time i go in
<awilkins> It's the perfect storm of   : enterprise level needs, risk aversity, and budget constraints
<awilkins> IMHO all the records systems on the market are focussing on the wrong things
<awilkins> They focus on the "clever" that computerizing records can bring to the table
<TwistedLucidity> Myrtti: I've always done 'grep foo .bash_history' be great if there was a way to scroll up/down the hits
<awilkins> Pretty graphs, structured records, data mining etc.
<awilkins> What they really need to focus on is the core use case of medical records - communication
<zmoylan-pi> they all focus on wanting to builld a monopoly (their monopoly) on storing records
<awilkins> You are communicating with other clinicians, or yourself (in the future)
<awilkins> zmoylan-pi, Yeah, totally agree with that
<awilkins> Aided and abetted by government policy wilfully ignoring the problems this causes and instead mandating "interoperability".
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: You should listen to the episode of "Skeptic's Guide to the Universe" where Steve Novella goes off on one about hospital IT (he's an MD in the USA).
<zmoylan-pi> their have been times when it got close to me having to fix the pc/showing the consultant how to use it to get my records
<TwistedLucidity> zmoylan-pi: Be fair though, you did change you name by deed poll to "; Drop tables;"
<awilkins> TwistedLucidity, Ta, will do that (might even punt it around the workforce for link karma if it's good)
<TwistedLucidity> Basically, it was "The UI offers every option the developer could think of, rather than the ones the nurse/doctor/whomever actually needed"
<zmoylan-pi> that and i always have a swiss army knife on me and knew the crap compaq mini towers they were using back to front as we used them
<awilkins> Arrgh, anyone got a greasemonkey script that kills all Taboola content?!?
 * awilkins hate hate hate hate hate hates it
<TwistedLucidity> Never seen it
<awilkins> It's those links at the bottom of pages
<TwistedLucidity> NoScript/Disconnect/etc
<awilkins> "World's 10 Most Beautiful Women! 14 Times Kate Middleton was a Normal Person and Gosh Isn't That Terrible!" etc
<TwistedLucidity> Err...can't say I see those.
<TwistedLucidity> I really should trim down the number of blocks I have; it's a bit OTT
<awilkins> Maybe they're scripted in..
<TwistedLucidity> Got an example link to a page?
<awilkins> http://www.theskepticsguide.org/podcast/sgu
<awilkins> Everyone has them now
<awilkins> It seems to have taken over as the primary way to monetize your web content
<TwistedLucidity> I just see an episode list
<zmoylan-pi> same her
<awilkins> You're doing something right!
<zmoylan-pi> *here
<zmoylan-pi> are you using a lenovo? :-P
<awilkins> Firefox 40 / Ubuntu 14.04
<TwistedLucidity> I run Disconnent, uBlock, NoScript, Ghostery and FlashBlock in FF; plus network blocks in DNSMasq on the router.
<awilkins> Homebuilt gaming rig, definitely no Chinese malware in it
<awilkins> (malware may be from Taiwan)
<TwistedLucidity> Really need to tone down the blocking add-ons in FF; totally overdoing it
<zmoylan-pi> ghostery and privacy badger on firefox on win8
<zmoylan-pi> ON a lenovo :-D
<awilkins> I love Lenovo hardware
<awilkins> I'd probably still buy them
<awilkins> Which is sad
<zmoylan-pi> their recent malware preinstalls are a little sad
<awilkins> Recurring malware rootkit
<zmoylan-pi> which left a backdoor for windows malware
<awilkins> The thing that uses a bona-fide actual in-there-by-design rootkit feature in Windows is just mental.
<zmoylan-pi> i really must linux this laptop...
<zmoylan-pi> compared to win10 it's great :-/
<awilkins> They're backporting the snoopware from Win10 to Win7 and 8 now
<awilkins> Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
<zmoylan-pi> which makes it more and more imperative that i bump this laptop up to linux
<awilkins> I only use WIndows for playing games now
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: Disconnect kills Taboola
<awilkins> And compulsory corporate activities that require Windows-only apps
<awilkins> Which is basically "MS Office" now
<TwistedLucidity> Ghostery too
<zmoylan-pi> i only left windows on this as i needed a nokia sync bit of software to transfer 700+ contacts from one phone to another and no other software would do it
<awilkins> Hah, the same with mum's WindowsPhone
<awilkins> You can only patch the OS via zTunes or whatever it's called
<awilkins> I did it by installing it in a VM and passing through the USB port
<zmoylan-pi> microsoft knackered the csv handling of the nokia software which used to be excellent so i had to write a perl script to convert from outlook.com csv to nokia csv
<awilkins> "CSV" is just a terrible design
<TwistedLucidity> CSV isn't designed
<awilkins> There's no standard behaviour
<awilkins> There's no standard implementation
<TwistedLucidity> That's what I just said
<zmoylan-pi> csv is terrible... until you compare it with the alternatives
<awilkins> And it's not simple enough - too many edge cases
<awilkins> The Unix way is, of course, better
<awilkins> Three characters - one escape char, one field separator, one record separator
<zmoylan-pi> i like csv but i do like when the software i'm dealing with isn't stupid
<awilkins> > http://www.catb.org/esr/writings/taoup/html/ch05s02.html
<awilkins> I've been using cookie-jar for a lot of data conversions recently after writing a small Python program that can grok it one afternoon
<awilkins> Or "record-jar"
<awilkins> Just turns each record into a dict and lets you iterate over them
<awilkins> Easy to write, easy to process, easy to hack around not-quite-proper data with a text editor or shell tools
<awilkins> JSON and XML are nice when the data is well curated, but for quick and dirty, you want things you can manipulate with grep sed and awk
<awilkins> With CSV the thing that causes trouble is the way that various implementations  quote text fields
<zmoylan-pi> it can get /messy/ but as long as they don't make a complete haims of it you can usually make it work
<maps> hi;]
<webpigeon> awilkins++ for record-jar
<diddledan> daftykins: looks like you're atracting the crazies today
<daftykins> heh
<daftykins> somehow this user lost their /home/username entirely so my attempts to ask for a pastebin of ls -al ~/ failed
<diddledan> yeah, he/she seems rather lost
<diddledan> grr, I hate that "I got ubuntu 15 installed"
<diddledan> 15 isn't a valid release
<daftykins> or 14.4
<daftykins> :>
<diddledan> yeah that's horrid
<diddledan> worse is 14.1
<shauno> I'm a bad nerd :(  I went to Maplin
<daftykins> hehehe
<daftykins> do you have many things you don't need, now?
<shauno> nah, they price themselves out of spree territory
<daftykins> ah
<daftykins> i remember popping in the one in Brighton once or twice and being horrified at the ridiculous kinds of things you get in there
<daftykins> contraptions that solve problems for folk who are doing it wrong to begin with :D
<shauno> yes, that's why I go there :)
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> think i saw a Â£90 Pi starter kit once
<penguin42> it's good to look around and have  a delve in their junk bins
<shauno> yeah they have that fuze one in there, which is the wrong side of 200e
<shauno> which is a pretty uninspired kit but mounted into a metal chassis that makes it look like the kinda computer zmoylan would pine for
<daftykins> :D
 * penguin42 remembers a bunch of us in a Pizza express in ~2000 saying that if it were run by Maplin we'd have to assemble the pizza from 3 different stores to get all the bits we needed
<shauno> of course, now that I've finally bothered to go pick up some blank cds, I can't find my burner anywhere
<m0nkey_> Evening
<penguin42> shauno: Above your zip drive
<shauno> hm.  that cheap, ancient mac mini I picked up.  I'd never thought to test the cd drive in it
<shauno> it works, but I'm sure the neighbours can hear it working
<foobarry> what do you do with the mac mini shauno ? runit like a rasp pi?
<daftykins> where i taught was a nightmare with optical drives for the training network
<daftykins> if it wasn't them dying, it was the old hard disks
<daftykins> then you'd get a student pranking another by flicking the 110/230V PSU switch
<shauno> trying to install amigaos on it foobarry, so I just needed anything that was ppc and common
<foobarry> i have one too
<foobarry> do the games all work?
<shauno> I'm nowhere near that yet.  still trying to get it to use the bootloader off a harddrive :/
<foobarry> are you following a howot?
<foobarry> howto?
<shauno> not really.  I haven't found a whole lot useful
<shauno> there's people discussing how to get the bootloader onto the CD so that you can boot into the installer
<foobarry> oh
<foobarry> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hx3uszPPARA
<foobarry> he talks too much
<shauno> and then it just goes quiet.  so for what goes next, "fumbling"
<foobarry> should be 10 mins long
<shauno> yeah.  and he's got it on supported hardware, so it's point and click
<foobarry> oh its MONEY
<foobarry> non free
<shauno> but those amigaone boxes are silly expensive
<shauno> 2125 gbp for the supported hardware.
<foobarry> did you buy the OS?
<daftykins> as in 2 grand?
<daftykins> O_O
<shauno> yes, as in 2 grand.  or 3 in euro.
<shauno> for a 500MHz g4.
<foobarry> had more fun putting riscOS on a pi
<daftykins> heh
<shauno> which is why I'm trying to force it onto the mini instead :)
<foobarry> i have an old gnatbox gb1000 firewall, rackmountable etc. might put pfsense on it
<shauno> (and no, I haven't bought the OS.  I likely will if I can get it to boot, because I'm weird.  but no boot, no moneys)
<foobarry> i don't begrudge buying software, since i buy games.
<foobarry> but as a long time acorn, then linux guy, with solaris in betwen, buying an OS feel wrong
<daftykins> ah i had acorns at secondary school
<foobarry> obviously using a paid OS  without paying feels wrong too
<daftykins> you'd have 4 banks of ~5 or 6 machines in a room, with a SCSI hard disk per bank that all of them ran the software off
<foobarry> yeah, it was great
<foobarry> "econet"
<daftykins> amusingly said HDDs were shared off the slowest ones they had
<diddledan> ooh yeah that's funkynuts
<daftykins> and naturally, being used directly they crawled even more
<diddledan> I've been fiddling with cygwin
<shauno> I dunno.  I think amiga's niche enough that it has to come from somewhere if we want anything new
<daftykins> right at the end there were a couple of A7000s which were quite nippy
<shauno> I mean, it's not like they're going to be able to survive of corporate support contracts for it
<diddledan> I've managed to got X running seamlessly and now it autostarts with no indication that it's running
<foobarry> for sure, i don't begrudge them asking money. baby needs shoes etc
<diddledan> so my X clients appear seamlessly in my windows desktop and I have no evidence that they're X
<foobarry> but usually they are pet honny projects
<foobarry> diddledan: i did that once
<foobarry> then found xming
<foobarry> then found mobaxterm which works even better
<penguin42> diddledan: Yeh I remember that from years ago, neat setup
<shauno> that's the big problem I guess.  it pretty much is a hobby project, except the folks that hold the amiga licence are still trying to milk it
<foobarry> oh, i think there was a simliar thing with riscos
<daftykins> diddledan: what provides that o0
<foobarry> until recently
<daftykins> oh cygwin
<daftykins> i thought that was an oft hated thing :D
<shauno> life's too short for cygwin :p
<shauno> get ye to the putty
<foobarry> https://www.riscosopen.org/content/downloads
<foobarry> shauno: mobaxterm is putty on steroid
<daftykins> nay, KiTTY! :)
<daftykins> URL parsing \o/
<diddledan> see I want more than just an ssh client
<foobarry> it features a x server and graphical sftp
<daftykins> except for .wiki, it goes as far as .wi - needs an improved regex i think
<diddledan> I want a full posix stack
 * foobarry wonders if he is on ignore 
<foobarry> :P
<daftykins> foobarry: i can see you! :)
<foobarry> diddledan: oh , in that case you are twisted
<foobarry> i had a colleague who insisted that the best OS was windows 2k + cygwin
<shauno> yeah I saw mobaxterm.  it's got way too much gui for my liking
<diddledan> also client-hyper-v on windows is fun
<foobarry> home PC wars (acorn vs amiga vs atari) still continue in the form of android vs apple vs other <1% share OS
<foobarry> and MS vs MacOS vs Linux
<diddledan> foobarry, zx
<diddledan> speccies ftw
<foobarry> ah yeah, primary school battles
<foobarry> commodore vs bbc/electorn vs speccy
<foobarry> i always felt acorn a natural predecssor of linux
<foobarry> due to the hobbyist roots
<foobarry> and useful cli
<shauno> I never realised atari vs amiga was a battle at the time
<daftykins> i don't even recall finding a CLI in school time o0
<shauno> it was like .. amiga was for people, and atari was for people with a weird midi fetish.
<daftykins> was quite amusing a mate getting kicked off them by those in higher years, in order to play the game he wrote in BASIC
<foobarry> in house game or commercial?
<daftykins> something he did himself ja (if that was for me)
<penguin42> my 1st job was writing Beeb code
<daftykins> it was space invaders with 3D looking ships, very neat - used a lot of circlefill iirc
<daftykins> er not really space invaders actually, as there was only one or two and you
<foobarry> i wrote a library management system in basic
<foobarry> including checksum checking on ISBN numbers
<foobarry> basically a database
<foobarry> probably my finest hour when it comes to programming
<daftykins> all downhill from there? :D
<foobarry> struggled a bit with programming at uni
<foobarry> i was partying while my course buddies were staying all night in the labs
<shauno> hah!  the disk formatting finally went from 0% to 1%.  so it is moving
<foobarry> i got a good degree and they scraped but became good programmers
<daftykins> i got very frustrated at the effort to reward ratio involved with the java we were forced to do
<daftykins> never really got a book and tried to learn properly either
<daftykins> i stubbornly wanted to do the things i was already good at and skipped the new things :D
<shauno> I think I would have preferred java. we uesd pascal :/
<daftykins> hrmm
<daftykins> there was a bit of C to start with mind you
<foobarry> like learning the guitar. when i realised i wouldn't be awesome, i stopped and continued something i would excel in
<daftykins> had the intro lesson of hello world, then the assignment was set "write the game Othello in C with multiplayer networking"
<penguin42> shaunp: (* Yeh we were first taught pascal *)
<daftykins> that shot a lot of peoples confidence :>
<penguin42> daftykins: haha
<diddledan> shauno, we did pascal, too
<daftykins> me included, i had no clue
<penguin42> but I'd already done BASIC and asm before getting taught stuff
<daftykins> in lab sessions you'd ask the PhD students for some help, they'd come over and define a bunch of variables in main, then leave you with an infinitely repeating spam output =|
<daftykins> anywho i ramble on :>
<shauno> aha, landscape just maild me a security update.  so it is fixed.  sweet :)
<diddledan> it's fixed?
<diddledan> how that happen?
<shauno> I unconfused rabbit
<shauno> I still have almost no idea what rabbit is :/
<penguin42> shauno: as in rabbitmq?
<shauno> yeah
<penguin42> message queue isn't it?
<shauno> right, that's what it says on the can
<penguin42> shauno: I think it's something you can queue stuff in with the guaranteee they'll come out once and only once however badly the system screws up
<diddledan> I think it guarantees ordering even with multiple consumers and providers
<shauno> well, I set it to use the same hostname as lds is using, and then re-did the permissions
<shauno> omg my pizza guy is so lost
<diddledan> \o/
<shauno> we have a weird mess here where the major roads are named after where they go
<shauno> so dublin road, headford road, monivea road, all go .. well, those directions
<shauno> so, my pizza is in headford.  not headford road.
<shauno> which is to say, he got onto the right road, and then followed it to the next town
<penguin42> yeh we have some of those
<daftykins> shauno: what do they do in such situations? give up? :)
<zmoylan-pi> and i admit i did look at the fuze and like it :-D
<daftykins> hehehe
<zmoylan-pi> but too pricey
<zmoylan-pi> am tempted to get original broken bbc and slap a pi in
<zmoylan-pi> some of those 80s keyboards are pure beauty... barring the zx spectrum of course :-D
<daftykins> :)
<penguin42> that would be very nasty to a Beeb
<daftykins> i seem to remember having a BBC in the corner of the room in around Year 1 or 2 of primary school, was practically neglected from what i recall
<zmoylan-pi> if it resurrects a dead one it will be at least a frankenbeeb
<penguin42> you could run my beeb emulator on it
<zmoylan-pi> i was thinking riscos for superduperness
<penguin42> that would be odd
<zmoylan-pi> and irk any ocd people i know :-D
<penguin42> you'd almost make it sane running Arthur on an ARM copro on a beeb, but still
#ubuntu-uk 2015-09-04
<diddledan> it got dark
<diddledan> I had to turn the lights on
<penguin42> a while ago
<diddledan> yeah, I only just turned on the lights tho :-p
<zmoylan-pi> change your terminal from green text on black to black text on grey to add more light
 * zmoylan-pi puts on tonights movie... 'tremors 2'
<MooDoo> morning all
<shauno> howdy
<popey> morning
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Bring Your Manners To Work Day! ð
<diplo> Morning all
<shauno> that's quite ironic, since I got a mail this morning asking me to keep emails with global teams pg-13.
<directhex_> shauno: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9MWE7DdtIw
<popey> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/juiceboxofficial/juicebox-the-smartphone-charging-essential/
<popey> *tiny* batteries
<popey> claim 1 hour, bet you won't get that
<shauno> directhex_: :(
<directhex_> why don't people get phones with bigger batteries if they need more battery life on their phones?
<directhex_> "here's my ultra slim iphone! and a bulky bag filled with AAs and an adapter!"
<directhex_> seriously, it's dumb
<shauno> because my need for extended battery life is very situational.  I have a huge usb battery, and pretty much only use it when I'm travelling
<shauno> whereas my pants have pockets much more often
<shauno> I do love my battery though.  I got a week out of it on a boat running phone+watch
<shauno> (which is much heavier usage than it sounds like, because I use the same combo to give me speed & course on my watch)
<brobostigon> a pebble?
<shauno> nah, I'm all apple'd up, sorry
 * brobostigon sighs, and shakes his head in disappointment.
<shauno> I was actually curious about the pebble, but couldn't find enough information about people tying it straigth to bluetooth without a phone
<diplo> popey: Making me spend money ref kickstart and indiegogo :P
<shauno> I mean, like watch to pi without needing the pebble app on a phone between the two
<brobostigon> its the only one i can think of that has the battery life you deswcribed form a watch.
<popey> pretty sure the pebble is the _only_ one you can use without a phone
<shauno> oh, that's what I meant by my usb battery, still charging it every night
<brobostigon> libpebble for example.
<popey> (other than whacky android ones which don't use wear, but run full android and have a sim card in) (and are terrible)
<popey> diplo: which one?
<shauno> hm, libpebble I didn't come across.  interesting
<diplo> Both :D Witi and the MyCroft :)
<diplo> First time I've backed anything
<brobostigon> libpebble is a couple of years old now, its does need some updating, but does work, especially when/for fw3.
<zleap> mycroft looks great
<shauno> I'm still quite interested in the pebble just because it's one order of magnitude cheaper.  so for situations where I'm liable to get wetter than 'showerproof', replacably cheap is a huge factor
<diplo> It does, I've wanted to autmomate home stuff for a while
<zleap> is it just about voice stuff
<zleap> or is the idea you say for example heating on and the heating comes on
<diplo> Nah, can integrate it to other devices if that's what you mean
<diplo> yeah exaactly
<selinuxium> 'lo
<diplo> Or play this on spotify etc
<zleap> i have built a arduino based temp / humidity sensor project i want to do more with it,  so i am looking at bluetooth but I could also set it so a fan comes on if the temp is > a certain figure
<zleap> but also perhaps send the data to a phone / tablet / desktop app via bluetooth
<selinuxium> Hi guys, going a bit nuts here (not news I know). Trying to set up passwordless ssh between servers. The trigger jobs are in the root cron. Is this possible?
<JamesTait> selinuxium, yes it is.
<selinuxium> JamesTait: Don't know what I am doing wrong... I shall continue on then :)
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<selinuxium> Hi bigcalm
<selinuxium> JamesTait: I was starting to think that as root doesn't have a password that it woudn't except passwordless connection..
<diplo> selinuxium: Permissions on the ssh directories is normally my issue at sites with ssh keys
<JamesTait> selinuxium, you'll need the public key of the user on the source server in ~/.ssh/authorized_keys on the destination server. Also, check the file and directory permissions - ssh is very strict.
<selinuxium> diplo: cheers I will take a look.
<diplo> hah, JamesTait went in much more detail +1 :)
<selinuxium> Cheers all  :)
<diplo> Normally mentions it in /var/log/secure if it's a permissions error
<diplo> Or ssh -vvv
<selinuxium> Cheers
<JamesTait> Oh this looks interesting: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mappa_Mercia/UTC
<JamesTait> Adding ubran traffic control data to openstreetmap, which "will be used to test build a prototype application which will eventually be a platform for public display of live traffic flows".
<diplo> If it works, would be good that it gets made mandatory for access to all big cities/towns
<foobarry> how does google collect traffic flows?
<foobarry> https://support.google.com/gmm/answer/2839958?hl=en
<foobarry> location data collection
<diplo> hah, just did the same thing
<diplo> Anyone use OsmAnd instead of Google Maps for travelling?
<diplo> Tried it a year or two ago but didn't get on with it
<brobostigon> anyone seen a bug before, where apt-cache just randomly runs, and it multiplies untill the system load of so high, the system is unrecoverable.?
 * penguin42 hasn't
 * popey either
<popey> apt-cache? not apt-catcher?
<penguin42> brobostigon: Can you capture the command line given to the apt-cache ?
<brobostigon> the former, penguin42
<brobostigon> penguin42: how?
<popey> ps aux ?
<brobostigon> ok, next time it runs, i will try and capture that. thank you.
<popey> also look at the parent process, see what triggered it
<penguin42> just to try and get a clue for why it's being run
<brobostigon> i will try, i would like to know as well.
<brobostigon> ps showed, apt-cache policy,
<penguin42> just on it's own?
<brobostigon> and multiples of itself.
<penguin42> what was the parent?
<brobostigon> how do i find out the parent process?
<penguin42> ps -eaf
<penguin42> 3rd column
<popey> pstree :)
<brobostigon> ok, i will look next time it plays up to see.
<brobostigon>      |      |-22*[sh---byobu-status---lsb_release---apt-cache]
<brobostigon> thats answers the question.
<penguin42> oh god
<penguin42> does it run byobu-status once per session or once per window?
<brobostigon> i do not know.
<brobostigon> i have killed byobu, to see what happens.
<penguin42> brobostigon: I'm thinking it's something like it updates the status regularly; and if you have 'n' windows open perhaps it runs 'n' at a time
<brobostigon> penguin42: exactly, however i have three windows running, and there were definatly more apt-cache processes than that.
<brobostigon> had*
<popey> I use byobu all day and never see this
<popey> how long does the apt-cache run for?
<brobostigon> well, sometimes for just a few moments, and sometimes untill the whole system frezzes due to the load of said processes.
<popey> debian bug 682958
<lubotu3> Debian bug 682958 in byobu "byobu spawns apt-cache without end ... and freezes that way the system by high load" [Important,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/682958
<brobostigon> that sounds about it, yes.
<shauno> lol @ screenshot of conky.  I feel better about my own bug reports now :)
<brobostigon> :)
<penguin42> brobostigon: Which ubuntu are you hitting it on?
<shauno> hm, https://bugs.launchpad.net/debian/+source/byobu/+bug/999151 has fix-released in 2013?
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 999151 in byobu "manual "apt-get update" leads to infite apt-get calls and disk filling (-> DoS)" [High,Fix released]
<brobostigon> that bug shows it as fixed mar 2 years ago, but it still seems to be there.
<penguin42> brobostigon: Which version are you on?
<brobostigon> Version: 5.87-1
<penguin42> brobostigon: But which Ubuntu - precise?
<penguin42> hmm no, 5.87 is utopic
<daftykins> alrighty, heading to Portsmouth on the boat then Wales :>
<daftykins> bike trip here we go
<daftykins> ta-ra \o
<Laney> |\/| Â° Ã¸
<penguin42> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-34151204
<foobarry> bought something off ebay from china..., tracking number is belgian post "out for delivery" :-|
<penguin42> sometime in the next month it'll probably arrive
<foobarry> 3rd item i've bought lately, first 2 didn't arrive
<penguin42> oh, not had that problem
<foobarry> i don't receive anything that doesn't fit in a tiny envelope
<foobarry> we'll see about this one
#ubuntu-uk 2015-09-05
<brobostigon> mornning boys and girls.
 * brobostigon spots ubuntu at motorola on click.
<penguin42> http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/channel-surfing-run-shoplifter-dives-9997567
<zmoylan-pi> if she has a receipt she could get it replaced under warranty... :-P
<penguin42> haha
<zmoylan-pi> just say it was like that when she opened it.... :-P
<shauno> if she had a receipt, she wouldn't have needed to jump in the canal
<zmoylan-pi> taking a shortcut home...
<shauno> unless that happened to be her TV that she took with her while shoplifting other items.  like a 32" phone.
<zmoylan-pi> we'll have to wait till next week to see what apple releases...
<zmoylan-pi> might make trigger happy I'M ON THE PHONE look titchy :-)
<shauno> I am actually bummed that I'll be on holiday during that.  and yes, I realise that's kinda sad.
<zmoylan-pi> some barren deserted wasteland that has no wifi? dublin? :-)
<shauno> nah, but I'm not going to make her spend 2 hours sat in the hotel watching PR spew
<zmoylan-pi> that's when you give her a pile of money to go shopping...
<shauno> okay.  nah, but I'm not about to give her a pile of money to go shopping
<shauno> besides, she has less sense of direction than a can of soda.  if I did that I'd never see her again
<zmoylan-pi> ah but if you give her a few trillion zimbabwaen dollars by the time she has it changed into â¬5 the presentation will be over... :-P
<shauno> next time I get divorced, you owe me a beer :)
 * zmoylan-pi remembers that the person who gave his wife the tesco value valentine card i pointed out to him is now divorced... http://www.bitterwallet.com/good-grief-its-the-return-of-tesco-value-cards/25634
#ubuntu-uk 2015-09-06
<mapito> hi all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> morning sassenachs and non sassenachs...
<brobostigon> morning zmoylan-pi
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> :)
 * penguin42 tries to upgrade his dad's netbook from 10.04
<penguin42> hmm, givent eh age of it I think it'll be easiest just to give him Mint
<zmoylan-pi> lubuntu runs okish in 1gb of ram.  you do need to use a lite browser like midori or qupzilla though
<penguin42> it's not the desktop I worry about; it's 32bit, non-pae
<penguin42> he's already been using MATE for years
<zmoylan-pi> ah well, then mate it is...
<zleap> just spotted ubuntu on todays bbc click
<zleap> in the article about drones, in disaster zone part of that shows sunglasses and a tracking system
<zmoylan-pi> did it show half a pack of cigarettes? :-)
<zleap> not sure i just spotted it
<zleap> but it is nice to see something other than apple or windows
<brobostigon> 11:38:59  * brobostigon spots ubuntu at motorola on click.
<brobostigon> posted that yesterday.
<zleap> sorry
<zleap> but yeah it was at motorola
<brobostigon> :)
#ubuntu-uk 2016-09-05
<mapps> hi
<knightwise> Morning mapps
<mapps> morning
<mapps> watching new ep of power:) love the show
<knightwise> you are such a couch potato :)
<SebthreeBQM10HD> morning
<MooDoo> morning
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<brmbrmcar> Morning
<brobostigon> morning brmbrmcar
<brmbrmcar> :)
<brobostigon> :)
<davmor2> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning davmor2
<davmor2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyxkODGdp1E
<foobarry> how can i get multi process firefox?
<foobarry> just upgrade? or need to fiddle a bit
<TwistedLucidity> Nightly builds I think
<foobarry> oh
<foobarry> If you're using Firefox 48 or later, you might be using e10s already. Check about:support and look for a number higher than 0 in the "Multiprocess Windows" entry
<TwistedLucidity> 48 on Kubuntu 16.04, multiprocess is "0/1 (Disabled)". I thought it was still a dev thing
<foobarry> i enabled it
<foobarry> its a staged rollout
<TwistedLucidity> "Hardware H264 Decoding - No" Whut? That's not right, my GPU has support for h264
<foobarry> The detection for this value is done by attempting to create and initialize a decoder with DXVA support, and then reports if it succeeds.
<foobarry> seem to be bugs raised about it where its set false for certain users
<foobarry> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1178098#c24
<lubotu3> Mozilla bug 1178098 in Audio/Video "Show why "Supports Hardware H264 Decoding" in about:support is "false" and fails on supporting hardware" [Major,Verified: fixed]
<daftykins> TwistedLucidity: doesn't mean it can use it :P
<daftykins> DXVA is Windows though, so that can't be a cross platform method
<foobarry> youtube is VP9
<foobarry> ah, didn't look that closely at the ticket :S
<diddledan> morning
<diddledan> (for five more minutes)
<daftykins> \o hi sir
<daftykins> yay latest Dell XPS13 9350 arrived \o/ Â£580 delivered :D
<diddledan> nice
<daftykins> gotta love no VAT on the rock - and a 10% off voucher on the Dell Outlet
<zmoylan-pi> buy a few and smuggle them back to mainland... :-P
<daftykins> ;D
<zmoylan-pi> put them in banana boxes with 'warning aggrivated tarantulas inside' stickers on them to discourage customs
<daftykins> sadly we're made to pay VAT up front to things coming into England now, so they have to be pack-muled over
<daftykins> it's totally ruined selling on ebay for me
<zmoylan-pi> you'll have to move to the dark net... drugs, weapons, illegal dell servers... :-P
<daftykins> i'll start work on my nervous disposition
<zmoylan-pi> with windows 8 so you know it's criminal :-D
<diddledan> do it via tor
<diddledan> oh you said that
<diddledan> dark net == tor *facepalm*
<zmoylan-pi> well tor is not all about the dark net, it's a way to access the darknet.  tor is just annonymizing software... mostly
<diddledan> yup. I run a tor node
<daftykins> tsk tsk
<zmoylan-pi> totally legit, honest guv. only uses it to fight the evil copyright holders :-P
<TwistedLucidity> WB flagged WB as a source of illegal content.
<TwistedLucidity> Such a shame Google didn't immediately yank all their search results just to make a point
<zmoylan-pi> and all wb related content to be sure...
<foobarry> popey: got a reply from hudl
<zmoylan-pi> a reply or a cv? :-P
<foobarry> "Let me assure you, the security issues exposed in Lollipop do not apply to the hudl and your device will remain safe to use without the need for updates."
<popey> foobarry: haha, okay. bracing myself.
<popey> hahaha
<popey> Ooookay.
<popey> where did that come from? tesco?
<foobarry> yes
<foobarry> Tim Topping
<foobarry> Technical Advisor
<foobarry> Tesco Tech Support
<TwistedLucidity> "We have not found any security problems." (We have not looked....)
<zmoylan-pi> and do they have any staff left to look?
<daftykins> that seems totally legit
<daftykins> foobarry: now forward it to the register
<daftykins> :>
<diddledan> yup. defo send it to el reg
<popey> there's a guy who works at the inq who has previously looked into this
<popey> send it to him too.. chris https://twitter.com/christhedj
<daftykins> ah, a pastafarian
<foobarry> what was he saying ?
<foobarry> http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2382075/tescos-hudl-2-tablet-doesnt-recognise-its-own-charger
<foobarry> probably need to find a POC for any exploit that hudl is vulnerable to
<diddledan> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Adobe-Will-Update-Linux-Flash
<daftykins> nooooo
<daftykins> let it die!
<foobarry> i wonder if this affects hudl https://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=178139
<diddledan> no, not "let" it die. "kill it, tie it up in a carpet, put lead weights on it's feed, and throw it into the river ankh
<foobarry> emergency dialer is not installed probably
<zmoylan-pi> don't you mean _onto_ the river ankh
<diddledan> it's a quote: From the Discworld Game (In a David Attenborough voice) "The Shades, a place where curiosity not only kills the cat, but ties lead weights to it's feet.. and throws it in the river"
<foobarry> running the stagefright check claims that a couple of CVEs are still exploitable, but not sure if true
<zmoylan-pi> in one of the early books it describes the ankh boat races were you run across the surface with boots that are dissolving as you run
<daftykins> diddledan: :D
<daftykins> i liked the hydrophobe propelled boat travel
<foobarry> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NjQ9b3pgIg computerphile talks about correcthorsebatterystaple
<foobarry> summary: if doing the 4 words, pick obscure ones
<zmoylan-pi> i usually pick words not in english dictionaries or foreign dictionaries for that matter
<zmoylan-pi> lots of imaginary words specialised terms that we all know, grep, grok, grue etc.
<daftykins> so irish words? ;D
 * daftykins ducks
<popey> potatopotatopotatopotato
<foobarry> dirtytreeandaturd
<zmoylan-pi> well some irish words have multiple spellings.  i live in dun laoire/dun leary/dun laoghaire and that's before you start adding fadas for dÃºn laoire etc.  really keeps the tourists on their toes... :-D
<popey> :)
<zmoylan-pi> poor spanish students i gave directions too recently couldn't even begin to pronounce killiney which adds to the fun
<daftykins> they were too amused by the green jacket you were wearing
<zmoylan-pi> nah, i was wearing a light fleece while they were wrapped up in heavy coats as they thought it was raining as opposed to the slight mist the locals thought it was
<BigRedS> haha, getting directions in Ireland is hilarious
<zmoylan-pi> my personal favourite was as a kid my dad stopped for directions and was given directions that was essentially listing fields by the number of cows in them and also wether they were standing or lying down.  directions were completely correct
<zmoylan-pi> or coming to a crossroads with a sign that said the town of fethard was 3miles if we went left, 5 miles if we went right and 8 miles if we went straight ahead
<zmoylan-pi> slight break in the structure of the universe on that one...
<BigRedS> no, that sounds about right :)
<zmoylan-pi> plus of course having to reset your watch due to time dilation effects... :-)
<BigRedS> I didn't find a watch terribly useful in Ireland :)
<zmoylan-pi> they can be used as a compass on the rare occasions sun shines :-)
<BigRedS> haha, I went in March last year for eight days, it only rained on one day
<BigRedS> it rained for the whole of that day, but everything else was glorious sunshine, I refuse to beleive the Irish weather stereotype
<BigRedS> even if this year's trip was mostly drizzle and fog :)
<zmoylan-pi> a town in the 90s wanted to apply for a record when their weather station recorded rainfall everyday for over a year till someone pointed out the record was multiple years for rainfall every day
<zmoylan-pi> proper rain the last few days, it makes my wifi signal drop 10-15% :-)
<diddledan> argh, my eyes!
 * diddledan opened his curtains
<zmoylan-pi> natural light! get it off me, get it off me!! -barney
<daftykins> the dinosaur!?
<zmoylan-pi> barney gumble
<zmoylan-pi> http://www.moviewavs.com/php/sounds/?id=bst&media=MP3S&type=TV_Shows&movie=Simpsons&quote=bnylight.txt&file=bnylight.mp3
<foobarry> barney rubble
<diddledan> the simpsons has quotes for every situation
<zmoylan-pi> until about season 10 when they stopped making it as it was starting to lose its edge...
<daftykins> i'd say it dropped well before then
<zmoylan-pi> it was dropping by then alright but they still had great episodes worth watching
<zmoylan-pi> what a bargin :-) http://www.weirdstuff.com/cgi-bin/item/18120
<daftykins> ooh ;]
<zmoylan-pi> put it in your laptop crossing into the states so it doesn't even have the capacity for nsa to install malware... :-)
<daftykins> it's too tall, so even if mine had a 2.5" bay it'd violate spec!
<zmoylan-pi> wait till the battery expands... :-P
<daftykins> ah it's not a mac
 * daftykins looks at diddledan 
<diddledan> >.<
<diddledan> really must get shot of that mac
<daftykins> isn't it a reasonably recent model?
<diddledan> 2012
<diddledan> so-called "late 2012"
<daftykins> mmm quick fix up and sell for many pounds - since they hold their value
<daftykins> do iiiiit! :D
<Myrtti> their sunnyvale store is something
<daftykins> something evil :D
<Myrtti> just amazing piles of junk
<daftykins> speaking of junk - http://www.tig.gg/l42211-Acer-Aspire-Z5610.php
<daftykins> more local trade site dreamers
<Myrtti> I did find some USB CueCats in 2010 and 2011 but I think I bought the last ones
<zmoylan-pi> i was just thinking about those last week.  i was wondering if any were still in use
<daftykins> cue wat o0
<zmoylan-pi> i was looking at someone describing how barcodes would change everything
<Myrtti> they were rather simple to mod into working as normal barcode readers
<zmoylan-pi> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CueCat
<Oli``> daftykins, A core 2 duo?! That almost has historic value.
<Oli``> Almost.
<Myrtti> Finnish paper invoices have barcodes on the bottom so they were dead useful when I still got some
<zmoylan-pi> we were doing a lot of barcodes around the same time so i followed their rise and demise
<daftykins> Oli``: ikr! i just sold a full c2d machine with win10 for Â£40 - that one is dreaming
<daftykins> right best nip to the post orifice
 * diddledan probes daftykins' post orifice
<diddledan> oh myy
<zmoylan-pi> as long as no stamps are licked
<diddledan> gotta love a good nmap
<daftykins> oh he'll be getting a stamp alright :P
<daftykins> i like the way Dell's invoices say 0GHz in the spec
<daftykins> gigabits and megabits too
<diddledan> wat
<diddledan> is that 0GHz because it's "at least"
<daftykins> "XPS 13 - 9350 - 0Ghz - 256.00Gb HD - 8000.00Mb Mem -"
<zmoylan-pi> it's a stone, isn't it? :-)
<popey> look at all that mem
<daftykins> i wondered why booting an OS was taking so long! :D
<diddledan> 8 thousand megabits?!
<zmoylan-pi> the memtest
<diddledan> and 256Gigabits
<zmoylan-pi> 1k, check, 2k check...
<diddledan> small ram and small disk
<daftykins> been a while since i saw a slow test, 16384KB OK... then 49152K OK
 * diddledan divides by 8 to figure-out what that means
<diddledan> 1GB of RAM and 32GB of disk
<awilkins> Who knows stuff about configuring Squid?
<popey> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQNCl6UVK_M
<popey> oops
<popey> https://www.amazon.co.uk/DroidBOX-Handheld-Touchscreen-Mali-T764-storage-Black/dp/B019H2S60M/ meant that :)
<foobarry> could have been worse
<popey> looks like a neat little retro gaming tablet thing
<foobarry> seen this site? https://linuxjourney.com/
<awilkins> Can you configure squid to use the same port for http_proxy and https_proxy (expectation : you can't and that's silly, but I can't find a way of confirming it other than setting up squid myself)
<zmoylan-pi> wearable games is the future... :-) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GGYO5vdrnI
<awilkins> Arrgh. Anyone know if Debian's package of squid is built with ssl enabled?
<popey> cant see why it wouldn't be
<awilkins> Just installed it in a VM, added https_port directive but the logs don't output anything to indicate it's listening
 * awilkins checks netstat
<awilkins> Nope
<awilkins> No errors or anything that suggest I've got it wrong either though
<awilkins> The vim support for it's config file hasn't colourised my directive the way the http_port one is
<awilkins> Looks like the default compile options are "no HTTPS support"
<awilkins> At least they were in 2011
<czajkowski> aloha
<davmor2> czajkowski: howdy stranger ;)
<czajkowski> davmor2: howdy doody
<davmor2> If anyone has a nesspresso machine Cafesso coffee is amazing
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/o6p34y0t6zkaw9j/bug.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> cat just brought this in, but i've no idea what it is o0 some kind of steroid taking moth? :P
<zmoylan-pi> bit one of the british athletes at the airport and... :-P
<daftykins> i think she's also responsible for this little guy earlier, which i also don't know what is - https://www.dropbox.com/s/8k6ea9mc39osabs/IMG_20160905_162716.jpg?dl=0
<zmoylan-pi> yeah, i've had cats that have valiantly defended (ie. digested) any and all insects that entered the house minus the wings and legs for some reason
<zmoylan-pi> that cat also 'collected' vets.  bloodied quite a few of those...
<daftykins> :o
<zmoylan-pi> i think that's why the industry invented the ear thermometer tbh... having one shoved were the sun doesn't shine doesn't make friends
<daftykins> indeed! not had that thankfully :>
<diddledan> daftykins: not had a thermometer shove up your jacksee?
<zmoylan-pi> in fairness it is the sort of thing you remember if it happened
<diddledan> I've had a "digital examination" which disappointingly wasn't technological
<zmoylan-pi> made you want to pay for the upgrade and go private...
#ubuntu-uk 2016-09-06
<BigRedS> Morning all!
<BigRedS> Is there an LVM incantation to make it recover more elegantly when a PV that's a USB disk is removed and reinserted. I can see the LVs and VGs again, but I can't mount them, presumably because something's looking at an old logical address of some sort...
<davmor2> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> g'day
<brobostigon> hi SuperMatt
<diplo> Morning all
<diplo> Anyone here had to do a clean install of Win10 ?
<diplo> I've downloaded mediacreationtool.exe and created a iso and burnt it, also grabbed a key viewer thing and got a copy of the key but apparently I won't need it if it's already been activated as it's by hardware
<diplo> Before I do anytthing I thought I'd ask in here :)
<foobarry> hello diplo
<foobarry> how did the interview go
<foobarry> i did a clean install
<diplo> hey foobarry, It seemed to go well, although not heard anything yet so maybe not as well as I thought :P
<foobarry> it may have detected a win7 parititon though , not sure
<diplo> OK, well it was Vista it appears before they upgraded. Husband and wife have split up, she thinks he has some software on there to monitor her and wants it clean installed :/
<foobarry> unlikely but understandable
<diplo> Well he knew about solicitors appointments before etc, but I'd say her passwords on emails etc were the problem :P
<popey> diplo: make sure you re-install his software afterwards! ã
<diplo> But if it makes her feel better
<diplo> hahah
<popey> I did a clean win10 install with media created from that media creation tool. I had to nuke the machine first
<popey> just used dd over the first 10MB or so of the disk
<diplo> Oh right, doesn't let you format it then ?
<diplo> I'm so out of windows stuff, especially win10
<diplo> I haven't been able to get a live disc to boot yet either
<foobarry> haven't visited facebook for 1 day and it has spammed me 3 times already with agressive notifications
<foobarry> its relentless
<popey> i switched off all fb notifications
<foobarry> it did too!
<foobarry> except for mentions etc
<foobarry> but after not visiting a while it starts getting needy and inventing notifications
<popey> smell burning, run round house to make sure it's not burning. someone outside is burning wet wood
<popey> stinks
<popey> on the plus side, house not burning down
<diplo> I had that last night at home
<davmor2> popey: hahaha /me has a picture of you racing round the house with a garden hose in one hand and a phone in the other incase the fire is bigger than the hose can handle :D
<popey> :)
<brobostigon> livestreamer, handy prog, :)
<brobostigon> app*
<davmor2> brobostigon: yeah then I don't need to picture popey running round the house with a garden hose I could actually see it ;)
<popey> brobostigon: indeed it is!
<brobostigon> davmor2: :)
<brobostigon> popey: :)
<diddledan> if you're wanting to remove and reinstall from scratch any OS onto an SSD I recommend using blkdiscard from a linux live-disc. it uses trim to tell the SSD controller to nuke everything from orbit
<popey> nice
<daftykins> it would be better if that were just a secure erase function
<daftykins> TRIM is different
<diddledan> advantage being that the ssd will know that all the data it was tracking is irrelevant so that it doesn't try to shuffle blocks about to accomodate the old install data which the ssd thinks is still real data
<diddledan> there is a secure erase function on more recent SSDs but I don't know what it does so don't trust it :-p
<daftykins> well it doesn't, it's just blocks marked as dirty for having retained data at some point, it's no longer usable though
<daftykins> (the data isn't)
<daftykins> nah everyones implementation of secure erase is different, so it's a bit of a mess - there is a command in hdparm but it's a total mess
<daftykins> also, i found it couldn't operate on nvidia chipsets
<daftykins> (motherboard chipsets)
<diddledan> does nVidia still make chipsets? (aside)
<daftykins> nah i think they got out of that game, my last example machine was the intel atom + nvidia ion 1 in my HTPC
<diddledan> older sata chipsets were hit n miss. I guess it's the same with all new tech
<diddledan> remember the jmicron chips for IDE?
<diddledan> they were the worst for a while
<daftykins> hehe yeah some of the core 2 era machines here have those
<daftykins> i disable that junk in the BIOS :>
<daftykins> huzzah the new phone digitiser for my friend arrived this morning, so there is a working old samsung phone once again!
<daftykins> first ebay job was broken it transpires
 * diddledan digitises daftykins
 * diddledan then derezzes him
<daftykins> that was quite the immediate deresolution, Tron style
 * daftykins is 8-bit now
 * diddledan then derezzes him:-)
<diddledan> err
<diddledan> rougue up-button-press
<diddledan> silly up arrow being next-door to my shift key
<daftykins> welp now the BBC have made iplayer stuffs license fee only, that's that avenue closed ;) of course not that they can prove anyone accesses it without...
<diddledan> they can require sign-up I guess?
<popey> they will
<popey> just not yet
<diddledan> we've apparently found a second star like "tabby's star" - the one that dims by as much as 60%
<diddledan> http://www.sciencealert.com/researchers-just-found-a-second-dyson-sphere-star
<daftykins> that's one very special tabby cat to have its' own star
<diddledan> hetzner have some powerful servers for rent: https://www.hetzner.de/gb/hosting/produkte_rootserver/px61nvme
<daftykins> ooh :P
<foobarry> asking for a friend. is there a free alternative to corel draw on windows?
<foobarry> i gather its a vector package.
<daftykins> look on alternativeto.net
<daftykins> http://alternativeto.net/browse/search/?q=corel%20draw&platform=windows
<foobarry> hmm that site has improved
<popey> inkscape?
<foobarry> seems to be the highest regarded on that site
<foobarry> i find inkscape has a bit of learning curce
<foobarry> as with any vector package though.
<daftykins> i find anything creative a massive wall to entry :>
<diddledan> I can't draw
<daftykins> ^ that too
<zmoylan-pi> you can draw conclusions... :-P
<zmoylan-pi> *badum* *tish*
<daftykins> diddledan: i keep hearing hetzner get blacklisted a lot though for hosting infected/nefarious stuff
 * diddledan concludes all over zmoylan-pi
<diddledan> quite hard.
 * zmoylan-pi postpones the conclusion with extreme vigor and a brutally applied brick in a sock
<diddledan> I believe the correct response is to sit down with my eyes each replaced with an X and some blue birds circling my head
<zmoylan-pi> are the birds tweeting or snapchatting?
<diddledan> apple are doing a thing tomorrow \o/
<diddledan> gotta love when apple does a thing
<zmoylan-pi> should be able to buy some cheap headphones afterwards
<zmoylan-pi> cheap apple watches on ebay if they release a new one tomorrow as well
<daftykins> diddledan: not really, they're an evil company - my RSS feeds fill up with every little tidbit and you get to be disappointed at your fellow man for how blindly they rush to buy the next junk :)
<diddledan> shuddupandtakemymoney!
<daftykins> you disappoint me, sir
<daftykins> just been for a coffee with the lass and given her phone back \o/
 * zmoylan-pi takes diddledan's money
<daftykins> now i have things wrapped up and can probably just focus on packing
<daftykins> but everyone knows that is to be saved for the last minute
<zmoylan-pi> you can only close the suitcase in last minute adrenalin rush
<diddledan> I pack just before I walk-out the door. as in during the last 4 minutes
<daftykins> :>
<diddledan> I don't understand the need to plan what clothes to take. just shove what you'd normally wear into the case and go
<daftykins> indeed
<daftykins> only planning i've done is to have done laundry really :P
<daftykins> more often than not i have the backpack laden with all the tech before i think about clothes...
<diddledan> speaking of laundry. this is epic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-rmzh0PI3c
<zmoylan-pi> but you do spend 2-3 hours deciding what electronics to bring instead so not a great time saving on not choosing clothes
<daftykins> hehe ah nah it's just gonna be laptop, 2 phones and earphones i think
<daftykins> and a good ol' fashioned dead tree novel
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: pack all the electronics. saves choosing
<zmoylan-pi> plus which chargers will you bring...
<diddledan> all the wrong chargers :-p
<zmoylan-pi> and which powerbank is most appropriate...
<daftykins> i'm taking just the brick for my Dell XPS13, then i'll use my friends wall socket -> clover leaf (IEC C5) bit
<daftykins> save on the shippin' \o/
<zmoylan-pi> and does location use funny plugs so you need an adapter?
<daftykins> well i'm avoiding that by using hers is what i mean
<daftykins> so US wall outlet -> C5 into my brick, means no hassle
<diddledan> gotta love inserting a cable into your brick
<diddledan> no power, else. and whaddawe need? MOAR POWAH
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9HWGyp2p3U
 * zmoylan-pi looks outside at the back to school weather...
<diddledan> rain
<zmoylan-pi> blue skies and sunshine... to crush the spirit of all the kids back in school... https://twitter.com/angryearthling/status/772919604930830336/photo/1
<diplo> Can't get this Win10 to activate!!!
<diplo> Bloomin rubbish
<zmoylan-pi> install linux and when it detects that it will cave :-)
<diplo> I'm close to suggesting it
<davmor2> diplo: and that is different to other versions of Windows How?
<zmoylan-pi> windows 2000 was the last version i used a lot as it didn't require activation
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: then it was an illegal copy of windows 2000 ;)  98 was that last version that didn't require activation :)
<zmoylan-pi> uh, sorry, it didn't need you to type in a 36 digit activation code rather...
<zmoylan-pi> that really really irked me
<zmoylan-pi> the activation process were you had to ring ms and give them a number and then type the returned number back into a pc
<daftykins> diplo: what's the situation?
<daftykins> davmor2: i don't remember 2k having activation
<daftykins> though i only ever 'saw' it, never ran it personally
<davmor2> daftykins: it was the forerunner to xp which had the full blown activation, 2000 you didn't have to type in the long number but you did have register and activate
<daftykins> i know its' history, yeah
<daftykins> long number? i did VM a win 2000 and had product key entry
<diddledan> I think XP was the first one that regularly phoned-home with a cryptographic hash of your hardware
<diddledan> 2000 just needed a serial number from what I recall
<daftykins> yeah i had the same experience
<diddledan> xp and later needed a serial number and activation
<zmoylan-pi> 2000 sent some info to ms iirc.  but only wanted the code i had written on the cd :-)
<diddledan> heh, I remember playing dos games in the early 2k's on win2k running "vdmsound" to allow the dos game to run in cmd.exe with audio output (2k was NT so there wasn't a real dos underneath)
<daftykins> that's why i skipped 2k yeah, felt too office-like, especially (to the naive young me at the time) the ctrl+alt+del login default
<zmoylan-pi> xp was out a few years before i moved to win2000 :-)
<zmoylan-pi> i was just moving off win98se
<daftykins> i remember i dualbooted 98 and XP because XP broke GTA1 which was fun at LAN events with friends
<diplo> daftykins: It won't activate, I wonder if it was associated to a digital account?
<diplo> Guessing that means to a hotmail address ?
<diplo> I can't do the same, as if it was, it would be associated to the person we're trying to wipe
<daftykins> diplo: what is it, an upgrade from 7 or 8 on a laptop or something?
<daftykins> windows licenses are hardware ID based, not account based
<diplo> Vista was installed on there, the bloke had upgraded to 10
<diplo> So I made a iso using mediacreationtool, formatted and reinstalled
<daftykins> vista does not permit a free upgrade to 10
<diplo> It said on their website that it would auto activate, after googling around it seems this is a common problem
<diplo> Well this guy had it ?
<daftykins> so unless 10 was purchased and a product key gotten, it's not legit
<diplo> oh ffs, what happens if you don't activate eventually ?
<daftykins> could be the windows insider edition which is free and yes tied to a microsoft account, but it's not a retail copy
<daftykins> you should call that client and ask if they used the insider edition, because Vista 100% never got the upgrade to 10
<diplo> I'm so out of the windows realm, I can't get Vista back as all talk is through solicitors :/
<daftykins> what do you mean?
<diplo> Bah, why did I say I should help
<daftykins> you are a true IT masochist
<daftykins> :>
<diplo> Battered wife, they don't talk, he has software probably
<daftykins> oh i see so the wife is getting the machine?
<diplo> Won't be able to retrieve said software because of above
<diplo> I have it yes, it was hers but as most marriages set up with his details
<daftykins> does the machine have the vista product key on a certificate of authenticity sticker?
<zmoylan-pi> probably worn off by now
<diplo> Yep it does daftykins , I was just thinking the same
<diplo> Reinstall with a hooky copy of Vista home
<daftykins> diplo: i have a Vista SP2 ISO if you need
<diplo> Oh that would be great!
<daftykins> both 32 and 64
<diplo> Trusted ish source :P
<daftykins> mine are MSDN originals
<daftykins> do you know the CPU + RAM to know if it's worthy of 64-bit or no?
<diplo> 4gb of ram, Amd Turion64 x2 proc
<diplo> Win10 runs pretty well tbh, although vista probably won't :P
<daftykins> hehe, yeah Vista grinds to a halt on anything i find
<daftykins> you have two choices then, you could either sign up an email address to windows insider and activate 10 that way, or you can snag this image and reinstall
<diplo> How can I get a copy from you ?
<zmoylan-pi> try it on a laptop were it shares the 1gb of ram with video card... :-)
<diplo> Ah right, will that carry on working ?
<daftykins> let me copy it onto my home web server then i'll PM you a link :) i only have 5Mb upload but you can snag it at full speed
<diplo> If you're sure
<daftykins> yeah but it keeps going through updates regularly so it might piss the user off if you'll have future contact with them
<diplo> I can grab overnight if you prefer but if i remember correctly you're up late
<daftykins> nah you can do it immediately :)
<diplo> Ex girlfriends sister so doubtful
<daftykins> ah ok, Vista it is then XD
<daftykins> ok gimme 5 to copy and i'll PM you asap
<diplo> Cheers, really appreciate it
<daftykins> np :)
<diplo> I did wonder why I didn't find any mention of vista on any support pages
<daftykins> :D
<diplo> Wooping your bandwidth thanks
<DJones> What long day, 5 hours out at a funeral
<diplo> :( - stayed for the drink after ?
<DJones> Ah well, at least a wartime Bletchley Park employee got a good send off
<zmoylan-pi> just think, if the person in the 70s hadn't of broken the vow of silence we might still not know of what happened there
<daftykins> https://youtu.be/uI1snffu08U - "spectacular drone footage of three curious whales under a boat"
<davmor2> they said how they got people to open up about it on the tour there, If they asked what they did they got hit by silence if they said there were lots of women there was there any relationships "oh yes I fell for peggy in shed3" and off they'd go :)
<DJones> I like that on the bletchley park website, they have a roll ofhonour that mentioned him, which his daughter (Wifes's aunty) hadn't seen
<zmoylan-pi> there was a story on npr last week of a military camp set up in a national park that the park keepers could find no information on, a visitor put them in touch with one person who worked there which led them to a whole bunch of jewish soldiers who were used to interrogate high value nazi prisoners
<daftykins> that's quite the role reversal
<zmoylan-pi> well many had fled germany before the war and knew not just german but the culture and nuances which translators often don't have
<daftykins> *nod*
<zmoylan-pi> http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/595/deep-end-of-the-pool
<zmoylan-pi> second half of the program
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<daftykins> \o
<SebthreeBQM10HD> daftykins, someone is offering old hardawre at my LUG :D
<SebthreeBQM10HD> daftykins, I can get a old sun computr if I want it
<SebthreeBQM10HD> which might be exciting
<popey> Do you have clothes which need drying?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> kind of
<SebthreeBQM10HD> popey, me ?
<daftykins> or a door that needs propping open :)
<SebthreeBQM10HD> oh I see h eh
<popey> :)
<SebthreeBQM10HD> well yeah that's the thing isn't it, can it even be used
<SebthreeBQM10HD> same for the old compazs
<SebthreeBQM10HD> when I said get, I do mean free, old stuff  trying to get rid of
<popey> A friend of mine got given an old DEC Alpha server which used to run all of the Finance system for $large_drug_company
<daftykins> i mean if it's really your interest i'm sure it could be fun, but i have enough work with modern gear so i prefer to stay away :>
<popey> he kept it in his den, and ran Red Hat on it (many years ago)
<daftykins> hehe
<popey> his wife would hang washing in the room because it was kept nice and toasty
<daftykins> the College i taught at got offered something they would have needed to reinforce the floor to take :)
<SebthreeBQM10HD> I did get a old computer from somene else the other eyar from lug, but that hasn't really been used much since...
<SebthreeBQM10HD> but could be used
<popey> The only computer I'm looking for at the moment is a VT100
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Do I want any old compaqz though probabloy not really, those were WIndows machines so to uh modern for uh  what I Hae in mind h eh
<popey> but they're quite rare, and expensive when they come up on fleabay
<SebthreeBQM10HD> I would use modern tech for WIndows
<SebthreeBQM10HD> and Linux
<SebthreeBQM10HD> this guy has a lot of old stuff, asking what I want
<SebthreeBQM10HD> a lot of it is like, no that's probably not me.  I do find oses intersting so a old sun computer might be something, well if it can actsually be used for something now :d
<popey> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Plessey-Peripheral-Systems-PT100-Very-Rare-Vintage-Computer-Terminal-/330816925879
<popey> for example
<daftykins> i think my dad is still hiding the apricot 486s from my mum at their place :)
<SebthreeBQM10HD> I am not so keen on picking up old desktops thugh since the ones I have here now all of htem aren't really used anymore
<SebthreeBQM10HD> and they take up space
<SebthreeBQM10HD> but a sun computer isn't a pc
<daftykins> just because it's a different architecture doesn't really make it any more use though :>
<SebthreeBQM10HD> true plus he's probably tkne the hard di sk out or whtaever of the machine to
<SebthreeBQM10HD> it has a cd room drie though uhmm
<SebthreeBQM10HD> saying that he wanted to give away some old extenral hrd disk to, wich maybe can be used with this to
<daftykins> sounds like a rabbit hole to me :)
<SebthreeBQM10HD> well it's either giving it away t someone or it goes to land fil this weekend
<SebthreeBQM10HD> and other things he's still got left
<popey> give it to the computer museum in cambridge
<daftykins> nah folks camp out at landfills waiting for that stuff :)
<SebthreeBQM10HD> will it even work with a say desktop pc mnoitor?  I have only really had pc's desktopwise, well there was a really old computer to hwen I was a kid, but that got long thrown out
<popey> i gave away a 42" plasma telly last week on freagle. number of emails I got for it was bonkers
<daftykins> hahaha
<daftykins> the core 2 quad PC that i said could run games if they bought a modern graphics card picked up steam quite well
<daftykins> in terms of replies, not steam the game platform from valve... :D
<SebthreeBQM10HD> looks like it would be ashame to have a sun ultra 5 going to the bin though whatever that is
<daftykins> i doubt you'd find anything worth running on it! OS wise
<SebthreeBQM10HD> daftykins, sure, but there must be something out there
<daftykins> if you wanted it to be online to be of use, it's likely too old to be worth it
<daftykins> so unless you have all the time in the world... :D
<daftykins> Amazon.co.uk info on Office 365 Home: "Download time: 2 minutes on broadband, 1 day, 17 hours and 36 minutes on dial-up"
<popey> optimistic
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> some clients just won't even consider something other than MS Outlook, shame what they do to themselves
<daftykins> i wonder why it is i'm hearing swooping planes in the sky and fireworks outside
<zmoylan-pi> alien invasion...
<daftykins> http://guernseypress.com/news/2016/09/03/evening-battle-of-britain-week-display-over-st-peter-port/
<daftykins> well well
<daftykins> and in quality local standard the story finishes part way... :D
<ali1234> happens all the time in print when the story doesn't fit in the page... but to do that online is a real feat
<diddledan> look what I made:  https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/Tt0xjpDw/
<diddledan> it's HTML
<diddledan> \i/
<diddledan> rtt
<diddledan> damn fingers aren't working in the dark
<diddledan> https://www.petri.com/microsoft-preparing-take-slack-skype-teams
<zmoylan-pi> well slack did reject a takeover
<zmoylan-pi> so knock out a free clone that does 90% of what theirs does and install it by default in every windows via an update and so long slack
#ubuntu-uk 2016-09-07
<mapps> hi
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> Morning all
<TwistedLucidity> o/
<BigRedS> Goood Morning!
<popey> http://zxrenew.co.uk/ - this is excellent
<popey> high quality replacement speccy parts
<TwistedLucidity> Hopefully someone will start manufacturing old skool analogue joysticks...I need one for my BBC
<foobarry> i use to have an analogue joystick on my electorn
<foobarry> electron with a plus1
<foobarry> it was beige too with black stick. i didn't appreciate how awesome that joystick was
<foobarry> and preferred my friends quickshot2 on my c64/spec
<TwistedLucidity> Voltmace 4 evah!
<Gargoyle> I've been using ubuntu server for web stuff since 6.06, but I've finally "de-Apple'd" my desktop tools and made the switch on the desktop too. Running on a MBP for about 48 hours now. Only dipped back into OSX to export my password manager data. Anyone else running on recent Apple hardware?
<popey> woot
<Gargoyle> Oh, how things have changed since the last time I used a full linux desktop (OpenSUSE 7.1) ;-)
<popey> hehe
<popey> Sound works, for a start :)
<popey> (mostly)
<Gargoyle> Indeed.
<zmoylan-pi> when security meant not using floppies you found on ground outside...
<Gargoyle> zmoylan-pi, And when you got a real physical box, and manuals... and a pin-badge (which I still have somewhere).
<foobarry> the presenter view for google slides is so ridiculously tiny, you can't tell what the next slide is
<Myrtti> and adding printers just works too, most of the time
<Myrtti> it's glorious, I remember when my multifunction was automatically detected for the first time.
<Myrtti> I cried.
<zmoylan-pi> scanners do make things complicated on every os
 * zmoylan-pi has scars mental and physical using scanners on windows
<zmoylan-pi> and network scanners... ::eye twitch::
<zmoylan-pi> a long way from my first scanner which was in dos scanning in hi res map of dublin into pcx format.  and as the scanner used only serial port on the pc having to use dos mouse emulator to select areas... :-)
<Gargoyle> So should my old HP networked scanner printer just show up?
<Myrtti> quite possibly
<zmoylan-pi> i haven't touched a scanner since windows.  the flashbacks... :-)
<Myrtti> if not, adding it is super easy
<Gargoyle> Will have to have a poke in an hour - currently on 4G because openreach are playing around with my "broadband".
<zmoylan-pi> now if i want a scan i just use a camera phone on a cradle to take image of documents that are placed at fixed distance below it
<Myrtti> I have had Samsungs for ten years and I spent two days configuring and crying in the beginning
<popey> I have an hp multi-device thing and it just shows up in Simple Scan on the network
<popey> handy for scanning a pile of things, given it's in another room
<Azelphur> I've long been after a cheap sheet-feeding scanner, doesn't seem like there are any in the sub-Â£200 range though, where I'd wanna pay like Â£50 :)
<zmoylan-pi> and you rarely see them second hand as they are worked till they can't scan a single page
<zmoylan-pi> there are build your own sheet feed options online probably
<DJones> Azelphur: I've got a hp 8610 which works brilliantly with Ubuntu, Can probably get them for around Â£140, when I got mine it was Â£140, but I got Â£50 back
<zmoylan-pi> yeah but that probably means filling in the forms... :-)
<DJones> Sheet feeder, duplex, seperate ink cartridges etc
<popey> thats the only think I miss on my hp laser, is no duplex
<popey> btw, if anyone knows someone who wants to make games on Windows (for android, ios, html5, linux) the humble bundle deal is good as it has GameMaker (for Windows) and plugins for $15 https://www.humblebundle.com/gamemaker-bundle
<zmoylan-pi> you can do duplex manually by printing odd pages and then refeeding and doing the even pages...
<TwistedLucidity> And the re-print everything as you did the re-feed the wrong way round
<zmoylan-pi> obviously you practice that first on a 5-6 page document and not the 300 page political manifesto you want to hand out at train stations... :-)
 * popey covets http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Plessey-Peripheral-Systems-PT100-Very-Rare-Vintage-Computer-Terminal-/330816925879
 * zmoylan-pi looks at the height and angle of the keyboard and remembers using similar and wonders how we didn't get rsi...
<popey> they had super long coily cables
<DJones> popey: Were they even around when you were young(ish)
<popey> yes
<popey> we used VT100's at college
<zmoylan-pi> still around now... :-)
<popey> we had high chairs and high lab desks, used to sit, reclining back with the keyboard stretched on our laps
<DJones> Wow, looking at the dates, they looked obsolete even when I was in college (and I'm older than you)
<popey> :)
<zmoylan-pi> my first terminal... :-) https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Terminal-dec-vt100.jpg
<popey> same, i loved them
<DJones> I started with Apple II's for programming in Cobol, moved onto Amstrad 512's at university, although was using DRS 20 workstations/DRS 50 servers during work placement
<popey> the smell when we powered them up in the morning
<zmoylan-pi> local business had donated a dec to college for them to teach programming
<popey> I have a VT101
<popey> but the keyboard has loads of missing keys
<DJones> Networking was tv coax cable
<DJones> Internet didn't exist
<zmoylan-pi> well web didn't exist
<DJones> Yeah, thats true
<popey> First proper computers I used were at Brooklands College. A Pr1meOS system with some odd Vt52 type terminals and a teletype for the guy who arrived late
<popey> happy days
<zmoylan-pi> i'd have been late every day :-)
<DJones> Bring back CP/M
<DJones> And choplifter on Apple's
<zmoylan-pi> cp/m is making a little comeback at the mo
<zmoylan-pi> a fair few z80 boards for it to run on
<DJones> Iloved shooting all the guys I was supposed to rescue
<DJones> I wonder if that counts as one the first "first person shooters" :)
<popey> friend of mine wrote silly little games in basic on his calculator. with a one line display you had to leave a lot to the imagination :)
<diddledan> popey: 80081355
<diddledan> or the one you had to turn upside-down 22378008
<diddledan> no, I got that wrong, it's 55378008
<diddledan> as kids we had a lot of giggles over those
<popey> i was reminded of those while watching the Extras outtakes on youtube recently
<popey> You know your kids have been using your computer when there's chocolate fingerprints on the keyboard ð
<zmoylan-pi> thankfully chocolate digestives in the optical drive doesn't happen so much
<diddledan> popey: I have chocolate fingerprints on my keyboard. I have no kids.
<popey> :)
<TwistedLucidity> Trying to add a static route in Ubuntu Server. Have added "up route add -net IP netmmask MASK gw gw-IP" to /etc/network/interfaces for eth1; bounced eth1; routes no showing.
<TwistedLucidity> What did I miss?
<TwistedLucidity> I normally do this on the desktop via a GUI...so I've probably missed something obvious
<TwistedLucidity> I can do "sudo route add blah" without issue, but that won't be permanent
<TwistedLucidity> By "static" I meant "persistent" i.e. survives reboot.
 * diddledan reboobs TwistedLucidity's box so it forgets the route
<TwistedLucidity> Meh. I've followed the docs (I think), it's not working
<TwistedLucidity> I have reboobed the server to see if that does anything
<TwistedLucidity> Uh-oh....now it's stuck reying to load the network configuration. :-(
<diddledan> yey I broked it!
<TwistedLucidity> Once it's back, I'll just have to remove the lines and add a script which needs run post-boot
<TwistedLucidity> Pretty poor
<BigRedS> I'd just stick the route add ... in /etc/rc.local...
<Gargoyle> TwistedLucidity, Pastebin the full config file and which version of "Ubuntu Server" you are using.
<BigRedS> oh, yeah, exactly like that
<TwistedLucidity> According to the docs, that's not the place to put it
<BigRedS> no, rc.local is like duct tape
<BigRedS> it's very rarely the right thing to use, but sometimes you'd rather use it than spend half a day figuring out the 'right' way, especially when each is functionally equivalent
<TwistedLucidity> I'm following this: http://askubuntu.com/questions/168033/how-to-set-static-routes-in-ubuntu-server
<diddledan> with systemd rc.local can't be guaranteed to run last
<TwistedLucidity> Huh...post boot *some* of the routes are now there
<BigRedS> ah, another problem 'solved' by systemd :)
<BigRedS> TwistedLucidity: might you've just typoed some of the up lines?
<TwistedLucidity> Nope. If I copy&paste the line they work perfectly from the command line
<TwistedLucidity> I wonder if the logs have anything....
<TwistedLucidity> So.... I have "auto eth1 / iface eth1 inet dhcp / dns-search <names> / dns-nameservers <Ips> / up route add -net <IP> netmmask <MASK> gw <gw-IP>"
<TwistedLucidity> Oh, that "netmmask" is a typo here, it's "netmask" in the file
<zmoylan-pi> hmmmmm, m&m's....
<diddledan> a faasand braan m&m's
<TwistedLucidity> I managed to do this on CentOS easily enough (just added "IP/mask via gw-IP" to "/etc/sysconfig.network-scripts/route-eth1")
<TwistedLucidity> No idea what I have wrong here
<diddledan> does indenting make any difference? I forget whether it requires whitespace on the sub-parts of iface
<sebsebseb> popey:  ping
<TwistedLucidity> I've tried with and without. It's bizzare that it seems to respect it on boot (I'd put in different syntaxes and then rebooted as a test)
<popey> sebsebseb: pong
<sebsebseb> popey: no it's ok  found what I was after,  but yes about to fill in that form :)
<TwistedLucidity> NO! Read the fine print. He wants your soul!!!!
<sebsebseb> TwistedLucidity: no I want something from Canonical :d
<TwistedLucidity> sebsebseb: The "Hoe to set permanent routes" dark magickz? Danger lies that way. Danger and madness I tells you.
<TwistedLucidity> syslog "eth1 link is not ready". Hrm.....
<sebsebseb> popey: ok done, not sure when you will go through those, but mine is in now :) hopefully will be accepted to :)
<popey> ok
<TwistedLucidity> Top-Tip: "ifup ethX" will report problems in your network config. "ifconfig ethX up" will not.
<TwistedLucidity> Problems now solved
<diddledan> what was the issue?
<diddledan> parliament debated the petition to have a second brexit referendum on monday: (3hrs) http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/cb2f33f6-f9fe-463e-a6d5-40eca4b614c0
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan: I had 1.2.3.0 with a netmask of 255.255.0.0. So swapped to 1.2.3.0/24 and so on
<TwistedLucidity> Same syntax as I had in CentOS/
<diddledan> /24 is 255.255.255.0
<TwistedLucidity> Correct
<TwistedLucidity> But was using netmask 255.255.0.0 - which seemed to be causing an issue
<daftykins> time for fruity tech, diddledan!
<MartijnVdS> raspberries and apples?
<diddledan> dell has merged with emc/vmware
<diddledan> or rather announced the merger
<zmoylan-pi> if it were over already it would be more a crash/impact than merger... :-P
<daftykins> just like the guy that drove into Putin's chauffeaur
<daftykins> er -a
<diddledan> morning
<diddledan> what did I miss?
 * diddledan watches the apple thingy
<zmoylan-pi> blah, blah, no surpises...
<diddledan> I like james corden asking tim cook about the security of the ipwn based on the lax security of apple allowing the information to be leaked
#ubuntu-uk 2016-09-08
<mapps> morning
<knightwise> Good morning mapps
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<crogers> hello brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi crogers
<davmor2> Morning all
<crogers> goodmorning davmor2
<crogers> I have an idea.
<crogers> It would cure the problem of hotkey clashes between the window manager and the applications.
<crogers> All window manager hotkeys (moving windows, closing windows, etc.) always use the <Super> key.
<crogers> And all applications should never use the <Super> key.
<crogers> Most don't anyway.
<crogers> The only exceptions should be for copy/paste actions.
<crogers> Though, those are application specific anyway.
<crogers> The only problem I can think of with this, is that everyone is used to switching windes with Alt+Tab
<davmor2> crogers: do you use Ubuntu most of the keyboard actions revolve around the super key
<crogers> Yes, I do.
<crogers> And the fisrt thing I always do is switch the Alt key with the Super key.
<crogers> Ubuntu is my only OS. I left Windows behind nearly 5 years ago.
<crogers> I'm a designer, so I use the GUI heavily.
<BigRedS> I don't think I generally have issues with shortcuts clashing between window manager and application, but maybe I've just got used to what doesn't work...
<davmor2> crogers: I very rarely have any clashes
<crogers> I use complex applications.
<crogers> Such as Blender 3D
<davmor2> only time I really have issues is when I think I'm on one screen when I'm actually on the other and a key combination that moves to a different tab in one app closes the app in another :D
<crogers> alt+click drag is a big problem.
<crogers> should be super+click-drag to move a window.
<BigRedS> ah yeah; ctrl-w not always just deleting the previous word keeps getting me in firefox and pidgin
<davmor2> crogers: alt click is an Operating System standard
<crogers> Also, application devs should not have to dance around wm hotkeys.
<crogers> davmor2 I know. It's not a good standard.
<davmor2> crogers: it works on Ubuntu mac and windows
<BigRedS> is it objectively bad, or is there just something you'd rather it did?
<crogers> Is it our mission to emmulate Mac and Windows crappy standards? :)
<crogers> wm actions should always use the super key.
<crogers> To prevent clashes with applications.
<BigRedS> haha, let's not emulate Wndows and instead use the Windows key? :)
<davmor2> crogers: no it is our job to make computing as easy as possible so people moving from other operating systems can still use they Computing Standard shortcuts
<crogers> It's the <Super> key, not the Windows key.
<davmor2> crogers: feel free to change it
<BigRedS> being different from the established norms just to be different is a way to annoy people. Making things easier always has to take into account what people expect to happen; good UIs are not surprising
<davmor2> crogers: no it has a windows emblem on it it is most definitely the windows key
<BigRedS> mine definitely has a windows logo on it
<crogers> BigRedS, It's not "just to be different"
<crogers> BigRedS, so? Macs have an Apple logo on it.
<davmor2> crogers: so there are 20 million plus users, I believe you are the first person I've heard complain about it
<BigRedS> so why not emulate mac and windows' 'crappy' standards?
<crogers> Mine has a Tux on it.
<crogers> davmor2, from a developer standpoint it makes sense too, not just user.
<crogers> And from distro to distro, they change.
<BigRedS> the defaults are normally baked into the WM, not the distro. Ubuntu's got a unique WM, but any Gnome3 install should use the same shortcuts, for example
<crogers> So application devs are forced to dance around various distro hotkey setups.
<crogers> Well, wm setups.
<BigRedS> I mean, I get that it'd be great if everyone just settled on your standard to use the windows key for all window manager shortcuts and leave ctrl, alt etc. for programs. But it'll be so annoying a transition that I'd probably rail against it if it were to happen on my PC :)
<davmor2> crogers: you know I'll let you in on a secret most windows users don't know there are keyboard shortcuts, the ones that do are developers, and guess what they are the ones that would start complaining if we started messing with the computing standard shortcuts
<crogers> It would take a day to get used to it. :)
<BigRedS> because I use a bunch of keyboard shortcuts that largely havent changed since I started using it, and none of them are particularly problematic to me
<BigRedS> haha, no. I've tried changing things around before and I don't take well to it :)
<crogers> davmor2, if Windows users don't know there are shortcut keys, then there's no issue in "Transition" is there?
<davmor2> crogers: it's the developer who have year of memory muscle for particular key combinations that would complain
<crogers> Bet I have more. :)
<crogers> I'm a full time designer.
<davmor2> crogers: by the way the wonderful thing about Linux is you can change things feel free to remap the alt+click to super+click
<crogers> Think of how many hotkeys GIMP and Inkscape has.
<crogers> Of course, both those programs combined don't have nearly as many hotkeys as Blendre 3D
<crogers> I do.
<davmor2> crogers: then what is the issue
<crogers> Every single time I install.
<crogers> Shouldn't have to. And I shouldn't have to post updates on how to use gconf editor to remap it every. single. time.
<BigRedS> how many times does that happen?
<crogers> And devs should not have to dance around wm hotkeys.
<BigRedS> But, yeah, it really ought to be easily programmable. I don't know if it is - I used to have a deb package that depended on the software I liked using and made all the post-install changes I wanted made to config files, but it just edited text files
<BigRedS> I don't know what's involved in these brave new worlds, I'm using an xml-configured window manager these days...
<crogers> most tweak tools have it now.
<crogers> which shows you that it is actually a problem for amny users.
<crogers> *many
<BigRedS> where 'it' is a programmatic means of fiddling with shortcuts?
<crogers> But you have to know to install tweak tools.
<davmor2> crogers: our point is that 99% of the devs don't we setup Ubuntu for the 99% not the 1% that need it different
<crogers> where "it" is the specific problem I'm talking about here.
<crogers> Can you really use alt-drag to move a window in Windows?
<crogers> Or Macos?
<crogers> The first time I saw taht was on a Linux machine.
<crogers> And it's always gotten in my way. You're right though, 99% of Ubuntu users are not professional graphic designers.
<BigRedS> there's a reasonable argument to be made that you could compile a list of all the keyboard shortcuts on a modern PC and come up with some sort of sane and coherent keyboard mapping for them that's perhaps more intuitive and definitely more consistent and likely more learnable
<BigRedS> which I suspect isn't far off what you're advocating
<crogers> BigRedS, that's not my argument though. lol
<crogers> It's much simpler.
<BigRedS> ah, you just want something *differently* incoherent? :)
<crogers> BigRedS, maybe I'm not explaining well enough? :)
<crogers> Let me try again...
<crogers> Say your an application dev.
<knightwise> morning everyon e
<BigRedS> either way, I think the downside is the same - you can make the case that this new way is objectively better and easier to learn and easy to develop for, but you can't really get around the fact that it's quite different to everyone's expectations, and that these expectations generally work for nearly everybody
<crogers> according to davmor2 "everyone" doesn't even use hotkeys coming to linux.
<BigRedS> I think most people generally use the mouse, yeah
<crogers> In 10+ years of using Linux, I never once felt the need to hotkey-grab my windows either. :)
<BigRedS> as in alt+click to drag them?
<crogers> So there's an argument that can be made that this actually will not change very much at all.
<crogers> BigRedS, yup.
<BigRedS> well, it depends whether you or I are representative of users
<crogers> But think of it from an application dev's point of view.
<BigRedS> it's very easy to assume that whatever it is that I do must be the norm and the other ways of doing things are just superfluous and unneeded. You can see this assumption in lots of UXy bugreports
<crogers> Rather than compiling a list of all the hotkeys across all wms, you simply refrain from using the super Key.
<BigRedS> Oh, I don't consider developers. I'm a sysadmin.
<crogers> That's it.
<BigRedS> yeah, and I'm not arguing that that's not a fine standard
<crogers> It's that simple. You can map any hotkeys you want as long as you don't use the Super key as part of the combo.
<BigRedS> it's just it's also a surprising one, and I would find the surprise more annoying than I currently find the inconsistency
<crogers> Okay, cool. Just didn't know if I was explaining well enugh.
<BigRedS> ah yeah, I just assumed that you saw a coherent and thought through complete set of shortcuts as an even better standard :)
<crogers> Oh gads, no. :)
<crogers> That would be aweful. :)
<crogers> It's already the convention for most things.
<BigRedS> haha
<crogers> It's just not an official convention.
<crogers> And it's most annoying presently in Unity/gnome/kde/etc
<crogers> Come to think of it, it's not a problem in Windows.
<crogers> I'd have noticed.
<crogers> I think the worst shock would be that alt-tab would become <Super>-tab.
<BigRedS> yeah, that was the point of the key, wasn't it?
<crogers> Yep. :)
<BigRedS> to give Windows a key that didn't infringe on anyone else's stuff. But all these bloody hippies wanted nothing to do with the Windows key until someone thought up a new name for it
<crogers> Hahaha
<crogers> Did Apple copy it, or did Microsoft?
<crogers> There's another bit of trivia. :)
<BigRedS> copy what? the command key, or whichever apple key is the rough analogue?
<crogers> <Super>
<crogers> I think it's an apple logo on Mac keyboards.
<crogers> command is equiv to ctrl
<crogers> or is it alt...
<BigRedS> I think Apples had that key before they got delete...
<crogers> Right, but I think it is the <Super> key still
<crogers> Apple uses say "Apple"-C if it's <Super>-C
<crogers> So really, it's the Apple key, rebranded to the WIndows key.
<crogers> Which isn't better, but well, there it is. :)
<crogers> Like I said, mine has a tux on it. :)
<crogers> Though I'd rather have an Ubuntu logo, tbh
<crogers> It also highlights the importance of calling it the <Super> key. It's branding-neutral.
<crogers> Also, it appears that Alt+Drag is a compiz convention.
<crogers> Which explains why the first time I saw it was on Linux.
<crogers> Compiz was one of the reasons I switched to Linux. :)
<crogers> Oh, the customisation power! *drools*
<crogers> Used to love to show people on their macbooks the enviable sh*t you could do with compiz, and a weekend of messing around. :)
<popey> The Windows key has license implications along with it
<crogers> popey, that would not surprise me at all. lol
<crogers> Which is why we use the universal <Super> key.
<crogers> Platform agnostic, isn't it?
<crogers> My hope is that when laptops start rolling out officially with Ubuntu and an ubuntu logo on the super key, they still call it the Super key, and not the Ubuntu key. :)
<crogers> That way it can be distro agnostic too.
<popey> That's not why we use the term <Super>
<popey> It's more that free software types have an aversion to Microsoft branded or originated things
<popey> See also: Mono, PowerShell, VS Code.
<davmor2> code wise it is actually called the meta key :D
<crogers> That ma be the reason, but a better reason is that there is no agreement on what the button was called in the first place.
<crogers> davmor2, I think that's a different key, actually.... :)
<crogers> Or at least a different ascii value.
<crogers> Yes, the Meta key is now AltGr
<popey> well, it was originally called Super
<popey> http://world.std.com/~jdostale/kbd/SpaceCadet1.jpeg
<popey> many years before Windows existed
<popey> See also: Hyper key
<crogers> Yep.
<crogers> Here's the askubuntu thread: http://askubuntu.com/questions/19558/what-are-the-meta-super-and-hyper-keys
<popey> free software people call it super, windows people call it windows
<crogers> So it was Super first. :)
<crogers> MS rebranded it.
<crogers> Oh man, I'm glad some of these keys are gone. lol
<crogers> Like the thumbs-up and thumbs down keys. lol
<crogers> Or are those what became arrow keys?
<Gargoyle> Google foo is failing at the moment. Is there a decent guide to migrating from unity to gnome, preferably for 16.04?
<crogers> Gargoyle, what do you mean by migrating?
<crogers> Like just installing gnome wm?
<crogers> I usually just open a terminal and type:  sudo apt-get install gnome-shell
<crogers> then you can just choose your wm at your login screen.
<crogers> to do that, click the ubuntu icon in the login box, and choose the little foot icon for gnome
<popey> there is a task for it, like "sudo apt install ubuntu-gnome-desktop^"
<popey> (note the caret)
<crogers> popey, does that do something different than just install gnome-shell?
<popey> yes
<popey> it installs what you'd get if you installed ubuntu gnome flavour
<popey> apps n'all
<crogers> Ah, yea, that would be horrible. :)
<crogers> Well, for me.
<popey> it doesn't pull in much more than just doing the shell
<crogers> If you just want to switch window managers and leave everything else alone, I'd just go for gnome-shell
<crogers> In my case, it would probably break *something*.
<crogers> I wonder is MS gets a kickback from every keyboard imprinted with their logo.
<crogers> For the SUper key.
<davmor2> crogers: of course they do it is a windows logo
<crogers> Ew...
<crogers> I guess that's somewhat better than buying a whole keyboard from MS though. :)
<crogers> SHows how hard it is not to give MS some money.
<davmor2> crogers: I do often they do good hardware, me looks over at his btle folding keyboard
<crogers> Yea, it's mainly that funding them funds thair nasty patent lawsuit threats against Linux and Open Source software.
<popey> crogers: if you ship hardware which contains a windows key, the terms of the windows license prevent you allowing that button to do anything other than launch the start button.
<popey> microsoft have send the lawyers after very big names who did this
<dafty2> Oy, delayed flight at Gatwick
<foobarry> thats insane
<foobarry> is it true?
<crogers> Yes, more reason to try to avoid funding MS. :)
<dafty2> I missed something fun...
<popey> foobarry: yes
<foobarry> https://twitter.com/SopanDeb/status/773250721659486208/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
<foobarry> lolz
<BigRedS> a discussion about the windows key and the non-standardisation of keyboard shortcuts
<crogers> dafty2,  quick catchup from this morning: Topics: using the Super key to separate wm actions from application hotkeys so there are never any clashes, the Super key was actually the Super key before MS rebranded it the Windows key. Apparently MS gets a kickback for each keyboard imprinted with a Windows logo on that key.
<crogers> And that's about it. :)
<dafty2> I always call it Super for platform agnosticism! Thanks crogers
<Gargoyle> popey, so would that leave me the same system config stuff (are they part of gnome or the unity shell)?
<crogers> dafty2,  Hah! That's exactly what I said.
<Gargoyle> There seems to me a serious lack of any kind of config options.
<dafty2> I can't for the life of me connect to freenode from my digital ocean VPS
<crogers> sudo apt-get install gnome-tweak-tool
<Gargoyle> done that
<crogers> SHould be about the same, just no duplicate or redundant apps installed.
<Gargoyle> Well, the unity one, at the moment.
<crogers> nah, differnt one for gnome
<Gargoyle> OK. I'll have a play.
<crogers> Have fun. :)
<Gargoyle> So much easier when you just had to edit x.conf! :P
<crogers> nnnghh. lol
<dafty2> I was only just helping someone edit xorg.conf the other day, can't wait for that to die
<dafty2> Different topic I know,but close ;)
<crogers> dafty2, agreed hehehe
<crogers> dafty2,  Oh, the fun bit of the previous conversation was actually spawned by a side-note that the Meta key is not actually the Super key.
<crogers> http://askubuntu.com/questions/19558/what-are-the-meta-super-and-hyper-keys
<dafty2> Indeed it isn't! Think they were on sun machines though, meta
<crogers> The chosen answer is a great bit of info-porn with CS history and images. :)
<dafty2> Ok I'm only on airport free wi-fi so I best scoot, not making much progress here.
<dafty2> Delayed from 11am to 2pm :(
<crogers> Yikes! Cache a copy of Linux voice, fast!
<dafty2> I have a nice book :) can't risk battery!
<crogers> Ah, no outlets at the airport?
<crogers> No smartphone?
<crogers> No Kobo e-reader?
<dafty2> I'm typing from one yep
<crogers> (which supports DRM free epub books)
<dafty2> I like the break from screen time :) makes it a real holiday
<crogers> NooooO!
<crogers> You're doing it WRONG! Must use all time to make progress on stuff!
<crogers> ANd drink buckets of coffee.
 * crogers envies people who can relax on holliday. (Enjoy!) :)
<crogers> If you get bored later, check these out: https://www.linuxvoice.com/creative-commons-issues/
<crogers> Linux Voice Magazine releases all their older issues under Creative Commons License.
<crogers> Which is one reason I subscribe to their paper issue, to help fund them. :)
<crogers> Plus, paper magazines are quite a novelty for me. Great battery life too!
<Gargoyle> Back on my broadband.
<crogers> On gnome?
<crogers> er, in, rather?
<Gargoyle> Nahh. Was on 4G. Openreach have been doing more tests.
<Gargoyle> Finally got an engineer with some common sense who has managed to compile some solid info.
<crogers> First thing I usually do is switch the theme to gnome's default (it will be set to unity's default still.
<crogers> But that's just to fix the window corners.
<crogers> Gargoyle, do you use many gnome extensions?
<Gargoyle> Last 600m of cable is aluminium. This causes the drop from 40 meg down to < 10
<Gargoyle> crogers, Only on linux desktop day 3
<crogers> eeep!
<crogers> suckage
<crogers> Ah. :)
<BigRedS> I'm about to try to use sudo to give someone nearly-but-not-quite root. Is there anything good I ought to read first?
<popey> Their employment contract? :)
<BigRedS> I'm good with the syntax and (hopefull) most of the concepts, but surely someone's tried to let a user use find but not -exec and suchlike - I'm after elegant solutions to that sort of thing
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> helpfully this is incompetence and not malice that I'm trying to guard against, but it's not formal enough for that :(
<popey> we used to break out of stuff like more/less etc which was fun
<popey> (when I worked at a big diy store where they used AIX)
<popey> we'd pass notes around about "hey, if you need root, john knows"
<popey> I also worked somewhere where they bodged the systems such that you could get a root like account, but it logged _everything_
<popey> so if you ran top, their logs would be full of nonsense
<BigRedS> hahaha
<BigRedS> yeah, stop putting me off this
<BigRedS> :)
<crogers> Think you can add user access to file folders.
<crogers> Then they should be able to perform find tasks... but then execution... hmm
<crogers> Yea, nevermind. Not sure. :)
<popey> we also had a little c program which could elevate privs
<popey> that was handy
<popey> was called "utility" or something, and we'd use it in scripts, they never noticed
<crogers> Hehehe
<crogers> Gargoyle, once you get your bearings, I have some extensions that will make you whine about having to use other wm. :)
<foobarry> imagine wroking somewhere without root
<foobarry> that would be sad days
<BigRedS> crogers: ACLs? Yeah, can't quite be bothered to implement that
<popey> foobarry: yeah, I had that!
<crogers> Not only that, but all you have to do to install them is visit extensions.gnome.org in Firefox, and flip a switch on the extensions you want.
<popey> had to fill in forms to get root, and they'd allow it per-account for a fixed period
<foobarry> screw that
<foobarry> i mean, i do that to the users
<popey> Indeed, I did, 5 years ago :)
<Gargoyle> crogers, cool.
<Gargoyle> I'll be looking for a good password manager, and sftp client.
<crogers> Extensions + Mac-style expo when you hit the Super key make Gnome hard to replace for my purposes.
<crogers> Well, old mak/compiz style.
<crogers> *mac
<Gargoyle> Different from the default meta-w and meta-shift-w ones?
<crogers> Try it. :)
<crogers> Open some programs, then just hit the Super key.
<crogers> It shrinks them all for you so you can see what you're doing.
<foobarry> works for me on elementary
<popey> like super+w on unity?
<crogers> I typically have 7 different programs open, with multiple instances.
<foobarry> super-S super-A etc
<Gargoyle> popey, Ahh, so super-w is a unity thing, not a gnome thing?
<popey> dunno, don't use gnome
<BigRedS> it's new-window in firefox :)
<popey> wat
<popey> surely that's ctrl+n?
<BigRedS> yeah, it's that too
<foobarry> not sure what this conversation is actually about
<foobarry> keyboard shortcuts do different things in different DEs
<BigRedS> I was only pointing that out because of crogers thing earlier about application devs just not-using the windows key for shortcuts
<crogers> Which is another reason to have the aforementioned convention.
<BigRedS> and I found it amusing that firefox used it, but for something for which there's already a well-established norm
<crogers> BigRedS, Yea, I find that there are a ton of little annoying things, which you tend to forget about, or forget around.
<crogers> Yes, Super w in Unity does roughly the same thing as just the super key in gnome.
<crogers> Except without the desktops.
<crogers> which is a really slick feature.
<crogers> Also, Unity is about half as fast gnome shell is.
<crogers> I'm not sure why though.
<foobarry> the dash, or just moving windows aroudn?
<crogers> Unity slows everything down. I mean program launches, switching windows, and god help you if you try and use the super key on a netbook in Unity. lol
<crogers> Gnome is slow there too, but usable.
<foobarry> choose another DE?
<BigRedS> hah, I stuck Unity on my old mac mini the other day. That was abortive :) Modern linux desktops are definitely made for modern computers
<foobarry> there are really fast ones that have good bling and workflow
<crogers> Yea, actually Ubuntu Studio was perfect I found.
<foobarry> what did that run?
<Gargoyle> popey, what's the significance of adding the caret to "apt-get install ubuntu-gnome-desktop"?
<popey> Gargoyle: installs the task
<crogers> Partly due to the XFCE wm, and partly due to the low-latency complied core.
<crogers> The only problem is when you come back from suspend, and log in, your mouse cursor vanishes.
<foobarry> crogers: maybe investigate ubuntu MATE, elementary, and even solus project (if you don't mind being non ubuntu)
<foobarry> thats a known bug in intel driver
<foobarry> fixed now on my laptop
<BigRedS> he did say Ubuntu Studio was "perfect", though, maybe no need to try anything else :)
<crogers> have done, foobarry
<crogers> Ubuntu Studio was the best compromise.
<crogers> Never tried Solus though.
<crogers> Mainly time limitations, but I like having a distro based on lts releases of ubuntu.
<crogers> And it's primarily the wm that slows the system down.
<crogers> Or at least, that's been my experience.
<crogers> Gnome is my fav wm currently, if I have the hardware to back it up.
<crogers> clipboard manager, todo.txt, and drop-down terminal are just awesome.
<crogers> I know there are variations for other wms
<crogers> but none heve the slick integration that these have with gnome.
<foobarry> gnoem were promising some good apps, are they out yet?
<crogers> Or at least none of the ones I'v tried anyway. :)
<foobarry> nice photos app and others
<crogers> foobarry, more specifically?
<foobarry> california calendar too
<crogers> Not sure. My ver of gnome may be outdated now.
<foobarry> california doesn't look much better than maya on elementary actually
<popey> just switched to gnome shell to try it out, annoyed already :)
<crogers> Well, you still cant double-click on a calendar entry to open calendar app in 3.18.5
<davmor2> popey: haha that didn't take long
<crogers> So that kinda sucks. :)
<BigRedS> crogers: is that drop-down terminal a gnome thing or just something they've adopted?
<crogers> Well, it's like guake.
<crogers> but slicker.
<crogers> It may be based on guake. I haven't a cluse. :)
<crogers> *clue
<BigRedS> yeah, I just remember guake having odd gnome3 theme bugs last time I was using modern desktops
<BigRedS> haha
 * davmor2 sticks with byobu
<crogers> I just like having a no-border drop-down.
<crogers> it just looks amasing #hipster
<foobarry> https://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/Photos
<BigRedS> ahh, I have too many tabs for that
<popey> heh
<foobarry> does photos app exist?
<popey> yes
<popey> one of the default apps
<BigRedS> oh! I thought byobu was just a .screenrc, but it looks like it might actually do some stuff I find useful
<davmor2> foobarry: still EOG under the shell just rebranded :)
<foobarry> so where's all these awesome new apps they were released
<foobarry> releasing
<crogers> byobu is cool, but I find it more useful in-general to right-click in nautilus and choose "open terminal here"
<crogers> Since I use terminal mainly to run graphical scripts.
<crogers> And install stuff.
<crogers> If you saw my filesystem, you'd understand why. :)
<foobarry> i like synapse
<BigRedS> yeah, I do all my work in a terminal, and the notifications-to-desktop sounds useful
<foobarry> elementary terminal does that too
<BigRedS> but I ssh elsewhere to run tmux *there* and hop on to other things, so it's probably too convoluted to be reliable. And do I really need to know when that rsync finishes?
<foobarry> when your apt-get dist-upgrade finishes in another window you get notified
<foobarry> a time saver
<crogers> Clipboardmanager is great too. keeps a rolling history of what you've copied, so you can retrieve it later, or with hotkeys.
<crogers> Also has a privacy mode switch built in.
<crogers> And you can erase entries by clicking the x next to them.
<foobarry> where is clipboardmanager ? in the repos?
<crogers> extensions.gnome.org
<BigRedS> foobarry: yeah, but I don't do very much on this PC - what I'm after is things that're two ssh hops away notifying me
<crogers> not sure if there's one for unity.
<foobarry> ugh
<foobarry> gnome extensions made me sad
<BigRedS> crogers: that's at thing I can completely see the use of, but I've never really found it myself
<foobarry> i tried using gnome 3 for a month
<foobarry> then realised the gnome extensions were unstable and broke regularly
<BigRedS> foobarry: clipit is a traditional clipboard manager, not sure if it works in unity, though
<foobarry> and also you couldn't update gnome if you wanted your extensions
<crogers> https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/779/clipboard-indicator/
<crogers> Sorry, got the name of it wrong
<crogers> controll the settings of it in gnome-tweak-tool under extensions
<crogers> foobarry, yea, the popular ones get updated more regularly.
<crogers> And tbh, I'd like something that works for other wms
<crogers> but... the pretty. :D
<crogers> Also not saying it's perfect.
<crogers> That calendar issue is... pretty lame. lol
<crogers> I mean, it's not like there's not a calendar application.
<crogers> but to be useful in the top bar, you really should be able to call it up at the day you double-click on.
<crogers> I'd also like the ability to search the file system within the file open dialog.
<crogers> In-general
<crogers> I do miss one thing in WIndows though.
<crogers> Just one really.
<crogers> When re-naming a file, you could hit the tab-key and it would automatically skip to the next file to rename.
<Gargoyle> Gnome... \o/
<BigRedS> that took some time!
<crogers> is that a good \o/ or a bad \o/ :)
<Gargoyle> That's an awesome \o/
<Gargoyle> It's probably going to be worth the switch just for the hiDPI window scaling. :-)
<crogers> Hehehe.
<crogers> Yea, that is useful.
<Gargoyle> Is there a tool for configuring mouse buttons?
<crogers> Although, I think you can tweak that in unity now too.
<Gargoyle> crogers, It's crap in unity.
<crogers> Gotcha. :)
<Gargoyle> you get menu bars and title scaling, not the whole window contents.
<crogers> How many buttons you got?
<Gargoyle> 6
<Gargoyle> Two on the thumb side, normally have one of them doing the expose type thing which super key is doing.
<crogers> Unfortuantely, the only way I know is by command-line.
<crogers> http://askubuntu.com/questions/152297/how-to-configure-extra-buttons-in-logitech-mouse
<crogers> It's... an ugly solution.
<crogers> Would be a good summer project to write a gui front-end for it though. :)
<crogers> Want to see something really cool in Gnome?
<crogers> Open a bunch of programs.
<crogers> hit the Super key
<crogers> then click-drag a few of them to the empty desktop
<crogers> Step 3, profit.
<TwistedLucidity> Umm....pretty sure I just bind the mouse buttons to an action; no need to extra magics
<TwistedLucidity> Lemme check....
<crogers> It really needs to be written into the mouse utillity.
<crogers> *mouse and touchpad
<TwistedLucidity> Well, I know it responds to all key inputs; just can't recall what I did.
<diddledan> I'm in the market for a new phone. should I wait for october to see what google are gonna announce or drop the money on a nexus now?
<Myrtti> I'm pretty close to getting a Moto X Force myself, still, since Moto Z Force looks like a feature disappointment for me
<crogers> diddledan I'd wait, personally.
<crogers> If not for the announcement, for the fact that everything else will get a discount when the new model comes out.
<Myrtti> historically the older Nexii have been on discount in store.google.com from about now-ish. Although I think last year they sold the old model with full price until stocks ran out.
<crogers> I've also been tempted to go extreemly low-rent, just ot see. I've seen some off-brand Android phones go for less than Â£50, that got excellent reviews.
<diddledan> whatever I go for I think I want to ensure it has USB Type-C connector
<BigRedS> I've just bought a new phone to get away from the relatively-cheap one I thought I'd probably tolerate
<crogers> this is adorable too: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B013788QYI/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&qid=1460923884&sr=8-5&keywords=posh+phone&linkCode=sl1&tag=socialtech109-20&linkId=69c6db6ce7974ed66d2d7ac34ed9d794
<crogers> I draw a lot on my phone, so there's really only one option for me at this point. :P
<BigRedS> ah, I tend to break my phones a lot so there's only two or three options for me
<crogers> BigRedS, how do you typically destroy them?
<BigRedS> mostly by drowning. I use them as satnavs on my bike
<BigRedS> sometimes they fall off, too
<BigRedS> actually, I bent one of them on a rollercoaster
<crogers> BigRedS, have you considered an otterbox?
<crogers> I'd take a serious look at the little one I posted a link to.
<BigRedS> yeah, I had a samsung in an otterbox before I got the sonys. It was pretty good, but when it eventually leaks you get moisture between the screen and screen protector and the touchscreen stops working very well
<crogers> Plastic exterior, Â£40
<crogers> Looks like a nokia from 2005, it may be perfect! ;)
<BigRedS> yeah, I find crap phones too frustrating
<Gargoyle> Does anyone use a sonos system ?
<lopta> Mornin'
<Laney> http://www.threemediacentre.co.uk/news/2016/three-extends-feel-at-home-service.aspx
 * Laney snuggles Three
 * zmoylan-pi reports Laney to hr... :-P
#ubuntu-uk 2016-09-09
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<crogers> Hi SebthreeBQM10HD
<SebthreeBQM10HD> crogers, hi
<crogers> What's up?
<crogers> And Happy Friday. :D
<SebthreeBQM10HD> crogers, not much
<crogers> Anything interesting planned for the weekend?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> no
<SebthreeBQM10HD> you
<SebthreeBQM10HD> ?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> crogers, where you from?
<crogers> Yea, going to go see the new branch of the Tate Modern Art Museum. My gf is finally back from Italy, so I can finally go see it.
<SebthreeBQM10HD> oh
<crogers> From? Originally?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> and where's that?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> crogers, sure and inuk I guess or whatever
<crogers> Tate Modern is in Central London.
<crogers> I'm from Colorado in teh States, though.
<SebthreeBQM10HD> oh
<SebthreeBQM10HD> well
<crogers> How about you?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> crogers, sorry your not alllowed here, you need some kind of uk redinencity heh he a pass port or something :D
<crogers> I have a Residence Permit. :)
<SebthreeBQM10HD> crogers, actually also no American alloweed here :d
<SebthreeBQM10HD> he h
<crogers> I passed your Citizenship tests. ;)
<crogers> I'm one of yoooouuuu now. ;)
<SebthreeBQM10HD> it turns out your thing is fake
<SebthreeBQM10HD> now the border force are afer you :d
<crogers> Better not be. I hired a professional company to handle the paperwork for me. lol
<SebthreeBQM10HD> the paper work for?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> oh
<SebthreeBQM10HD> the
<SebthreeBQM10HD> yeah
<SebthreeBQM10HD> h eh
<crogers> Yea, that's one thing the US has in common with the UK.
<SebthreeBQM10HD> what getting rid of or trying to
<SebthreeBQM10HD> the unwanted people
<SebthreeBQM10HD> ?
<crogers> Black-hole style bureaucracies
<crogers> The forms you have to fill out are so dense it has its own event horizon.
<SebthreeBQM10HD> heh yeah maybe
<crogers> Yea,neither country is very outsider friendly when it comes to immigration. I understand why.
<crogers> And I don't really agree with most of the reasons.
<SebthreeBQM10HD> crogers, well about half of the UK population and most of Scotland
<SebthreeBQM10HD> crogers, were ok enough with imigrants from EUrope
<SebthreeBQM10HD> including myself :)
<crogers> ANd me too.
<crogers> And most of London. :)
<crogers> 72% I heard.
<SebthreeBQM10HD> crogers, but then we basically have half a population of uhmm idiots and racists or whatever you may want to call them, who voted leav
<SebthreeBQM10HD> e
<crogers> They were promised lies too.
<SebthreeBQM10HD> yeah some things weren't quite true
<SebthreeBQM10HD> but a lot of those peple were people who don't normally vote in things like that as well etc
<crogers> I think that's understating it.
<SebthreeBQM10HD> and that don't follow polotics etc closly enough etc
<crogers> People were lied to, and it's amasing they aren't as pissed off about it as they should be.
<SebthreeBQM10HD> oh and without the poles etc, uhmm and forgin workers in the NHS as well,  things would be more of a mess
<crogers> Agreed.
<SebthreeBQM10HD> crogers, but I am actually half Swedish as well :d was born there, lived in Engalnd since 3, but that actualy means I can get a dual passport if I want it, which could become useful who knows
<crogers> Yea, free trade and mocvement in the EU, we don't need hippy crap like that.
<crogers> *movement
<crogers> We can go right on being a reseller, without those trade agreements, and still compete in the market... wait, what?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> crogers, there might become a like uhmm 3rd quue now :d.  EU and Switzerland,  any other pass ports,  except for the hated Brexit which gets it's own quee with bad looks etc
<SebthreeBQM10HD> across Europe I mean
<crogers> Yea.
<crogers> I'm still hoping they do a London passport.
<SebthreeBQM10HD> a London pass port ?
<crogers> Yea, break London off the UK, sort of like Hong Kong is for China.
<SebthreeBQM10HD> crogers, yeah trade is one thing, but there are bound to be deals made with Europe anyway.  to be honest  it would be good to have a proper one aranged with say America and China, that would also result in being able to import from those counteries no problem, without having to pay any customs, like now with the rest of the EU
<crogers> So you could have a London passport, and it would be an EU passport.
<SebthreeBQM10HD> crogers, if Scotland get the chance they may leave next time round
<crogers> Yea, except that the US and China have already given us the finger. lol
<SebthreeBQM10HD> crogers, but currently a tory prime minster has to even agree to such a vote it seems, and she's unlikely to do tha
<crogers> Pres Obama, was like... "Yea, we'll make a deal, but guess what, you're not a priority compared to the rest of Europe."
<SebthreeBQM10HD> crogers, he's also said stuff about America's and the UK'S apparant special realationship
<crogers> Which is a pleasant way of saying "Sorry, we're not going to help you clean up this trade disaster you've voted yourselves into."
<crogers> I mean, we'll see I guess.
<SebthreeBQM10HD> it's sily togo out of eu really
<SebthreeBQM10HD> wrold is more global now etc
<crogers> But I want people who voted brexit to be furious about the lies that are now official lies.
<crogers> So mad in fact that everyone calls for a re-vote.
<SebthreeBQM10HD> crogers, yeah, but that won't just happen
<SebthreeBQM10HD> some people aren't hapy about it now that voted that way though
<crogers> Yes. That's the stupidity of it.
<crogers> Then they should have no problem with a re-vote.
<SebthreeBQM10HD> crogers, EU IS UHMM
<crogers> If they are sure that we'd vote out again, they should be fine with it.
<SebthreeBQM10HD> crogers, ok it's a kind of super state now, but there are a lot of advantages being in
<SebthreeBQM10HD> crogers, certain companies are moving to mainalnd europe now as well
<crogers> Don't have to tell me, I know. :)
<crogers> I try not to think about it too much. It just makes me angry.
<SebthreeBQM10HD> crogers, well you can move to Mexico if things get to bad with America or UK :d
<crogers> Then it will happen to Mexico. lol
<crogers> Can't hide.
<SebthreeBQM10HD> what will?
<crogers> Can't stop the insanity and fear.
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Mexico is pretty much on it's own in the world anyway ?
<crogers> Nothing. You can always control people's oppinion with fear.
<crogers> And enough money to bankroll it.
<SebthreeBQM10HD> yeah I guess
<SebthreeBQM10HD> crogers, on a subject change:
<crogers> Yes please. :)
<SebthreeBQM10HD> crogers, do you find it interesting when  you hear like
<SebthreeBQM10HD> propriary games have come to Linux
<SebthreeBQM10HD> popular propriary games
<SebthreeBQM10HD> crogers, Rocket League being an example right now
<crogers> Actually we have a new rule at the London Linux Meetup that I run: No politics.
<crogers> Yep.
<crogers> I support that. I consider games a bit like art, or streaming media.
<SebthreeBQM10HD> crogers, well you could say they are kind of art etc
<SebthreeBQM10HD> but sadly most art etc
<SebthreeBQM10HD> has become propritary/commerical
<SebthreeBQM10HD> made to make money, not for fun etc
<SebthreeBQM10HD> be taht music, movies, etc etc
<crogers> Oh, it's been that way forever.
<SebthreeBQM10HD> crogers, but there's Creative Commons to :)
<crogers> Yes, which is why I contribute to the cc0 stuff.
<SebthreeBQM10HD> what's cc0 ?
<crogers> creative commons 0
<SebthreeBQM10HD> crogers, have you oragnaised any proper Linux events?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> public events
<SebthreeBQM10HD> be they small or bigger
<crogers> means you don't have to credit me if you use it.
<crogers> And you can use it for anything.
<crogers> You can even sell it as part of a compilation, or piece of your own art if you want.
<SebthreeBQM10HD> oh
<SebthreeBQM10HD> is it under one of the six liscnes on creativecommons.org ?
<crogers> yes, it's cc0
<SebthreeBQM10HD> oh ok
<SebthreeBQM10HD> crogers, but going back tomy question just now
<SebthreeBQM10HD> have you oranised o
<SebthreeBQM10HD> or ok been invovld with even but more so organising
<SebthreeBQM10HD> any proper open source linux events
<SebthreeBQM10HD> ?
<crogers> https://creativecommons.org/share-your-work/public-domain/
<SebthreeBQM10HD> be they small or bigger
<SebthreeBQM10HD> crogers, this is reminding me that I was going to see if I could get a proper CC UK rep or something as well, for a Linuxey type event well with CC as well that organsning
<crogers> Mainly just my London Linux Meetup.
<crogers> It's mainly just for getting together, having some drinks and talking Linux and FOSS
<SebthreeBQM10HD> yeah a LUG
<SebthreeBQM10HD> basically I gusss
<crogers> Or FLOSS if you like. :)
<SebthreeBQM10HD> or similar
<crogers> People bring their pi gadgets and other stuff to show off.
<SebthreeBQM10HD> crogers, events are fun and things like that :d
<SebthreeBQM10HD> crogers, it's a bit hmm in a way how Linux is so unknown by the public, even though it's like everywehre already :d
<crogers> Yea, totally. Mine is very informal.
<SebthreeBQM10HD> with the exceptio nof the standard computer
<SebthreeBQM10HD> crogers, I thik most groups and events for Linux and open source are generally quite informal
<crogers> Don't care how you use Linux, or level of experience. Maybe you are just interest in it, and want more information.
<SebthreeBQM10HD> with the excption of the proper business events
<crogers> We just started it to talk tech with other like-minded people, and community build.
<crogers> I learn a lot from folks there too.
<crogers> Many different jobs/backgrounds/interests.
<crogers> It's good to see a variety.
<crogers> And it expands your Linux toolset to get recommendations.
<Gargoyle> Morning all.
<crogers> And hey, there's CIder and Beer. too. :D
<crogers> mornin Gargoyle
<crogers> Gargoyle, still getting along with Gnome?
<popey> Morning
<TwistedLucidity> Thank Crunchie it's Friiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiday!
<TwistedLucidity> Camping! \o/ Woo!
<foobarry> hi guys
<TwistedLucidity> Pub! \o/ Woo!
<TwistedLucidity> Hiking with a hangover. /o\ Not so woo.
<popey> \o/ beer train
<davmor2> Morning all
<foobarry> got a question about recording a presentation - i want to record a set of slides with voiceover, perahps 30 mins talk. my face is not required,
<foobarry> currently the slides are in google slides app. could i use google hangouts to do this and generate a video?
<crogers> Yes.
<foobarry> i want decent resolution on the results
<crogers> Use Recordmydesktop
<crogers> or Kazam
<crogers> In both, you can choose the resolution, and the audio settings.
<crogers> Recommend Openshot for simple video editing, Kden Live, if you can get it to output the format you want, and Blender 3D's VSE if you have time to learn a solid video production tool.
<crogers> Blender has the highest Learning curve though.
<crogers> But it's also my editor of choice for sheer power and the fact that you can do pretty much anything in it.
<foobarry> i don't wanna edit the video hopefully.
<foobarry> kazam would create a massive file over 30 mins.
<TwistedLucidity> Couldn't the Kazam file be run through Handbrake (or transcoder of choice) to spit out a smaller, more portable file?
<foobarry> yes eventually
<TwistedLucidity> I thought the general rule was to grab in as high quality as possible then mix down.
<popey> i use simplescreenrecorder these days
<foobarry> for longer ones too popey?
<popey> yes
<popey> it doesn't create huge files
<foobarry> cool thx
<popey> UI is a bit wonky, with multiple screens. they could do with a ux person to look at it
<foobarry> ah, its this guy
<crogers> Both Kazam and recordmydesktop let you record just a section of the screen.
<foobarry> yeah he added twitch type options too didn't he
<foobarry> for gaming
<crogers> So you can crop off all the google stuff too, and just record the important part.
<crogers> Which will give you a smaller file and still maintain a crisp resolution.
<foobarry> google slides do full screen. the presenter window with notes is sucky thuogh. i prefer impress but i was making the talk on 3 different computers during the space of a day
<foobarry> so google won
<popey> foobarry: no, you're thinking of the java one
<popey> i got simplescreenrecorder from maarten-baert ppa
<popey> i used it to make my snappy videos - 1080p, 10MB/min
<popey> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8Xmd6O8xX8 that kind of output
<foobarry> such a decent app really needs better UI
<foobarry> that is good quality
<foobarry> do you think its better to see the face in the corner?
<foobarry> for non-community stuff too?
<crogers> It's also worth noting that Kazam preferences can be changed from AVI (RAW) as the default to H264 (MP4) for high quality with compression.
<popey> i only used it becuase there's periods of not much going on
<foobarry> i want the one that doesn't crash and lose my work
<popey> sss is the one you want :)
<foobarry> popey wins
<popey> I haven't had it crash in last few months of using it
<foobarry> nice quality vid
<foobarry> no crash
<foobarry> cheers
<popey> np
<crogers> You can also use ffmpeg to rencode to a lower file size.
<foobarry> i also use asciinema for internal recording of terminal stuff. no audio though
<foobarry> but it allows copy paste and other awesomeness.
<foobarry> editing of the source to change the words in the "video"
<popey> asciinema is great
<popey> i also like asciidraw
<popey> foobarry: the only thing I'm not impressed with most of these screencast tools is they encode the colourspace incorrectly, if you look at my video, you'll notice the colours aren't quite right
<popey> there is a yuv encoder you can use if you *really* care about that
<foobarry> maybe for gaming its an issue, not for my presentation, but thanks for the heads up
<foobarry> does sss let you paint on the screen?
<popey> it's not a feature
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<BigRedS> Goood Morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning BigRedS
<crogers> mornin brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning crogers
<SuperMatt> I don't know if you just insulted me or not
<crogers> SuperMatt, ?
<popey> \o/ Rocket League on Linux. I know what Sam will be doing all weekend :)
<davmor2> popey: playing no mans sky right?
<TwistedLucidity> Isn't Rocket League only in technical beta for SteamOS?
<TwistedLucidity> I need a new PC for gaming.
<popey> TwistedLucidity: came out today
<popey> well, yesterday I guess
<TwistedLucidity> Site says beta, but if it can be downloaded; why not?
<popey> works for me :)
<TwistedLucidity> I have too many unplayed games, and a new Humble Indie Bunble to play through...
<popey> ditto
<popey> i buy for my son tho
<TwistedLucidity> popey: Fair enough. Not that I'm jealous
 * TwistedLucidity mutters a nawty word under breath
<popey> he tends to play via the steamlink in the lounge with his mates
<TwistedLucidity> Steamlink now works on GNU/Linux?
<TwistedLucidity> I thought there were issues with controller input and stuff. My info could be years old though.
<popey> eh?
<popey> steamlink is a device
<popey> sits under the telly and streams from other machines running steam
<TwistedLucidity> So that's not the streaming thing?
<popey> yes, it's a streaming device
<TwistedLucidity> Yeah, that thing. Thoguht it didn't work with a GNU/Linux main box.
<popey> http://store.steampowered.com/app/353380/ that thing
<popey> it does, always had
<TwistedLucidity> WTF am I thinking of then? There was deffo something that was Windows-only.
 * popey shrugs
<TwistedLucidity> So....I could play KSP on the big telly? Oh my.
<popey> ya
<popey> we play a lot of multi-player games, where the kids beat me
<popey> TowerFall Ascension, GangBeasts, Ultimate Chicken Horse.
<TwistedLucidity> Ah yes, it's not *fully* supported. That's probably what I was remembering.
<TwistedLucidity> And back in 2015 it wasn't supported at all.
<TwistedLucidity> Good news is, progress has been made!
<TwistedLucidity> "In order to support streaming game controllers on a Linux host computer, /dev/uinput or /dev/input/uinput needs to be readable and writable by Steam."
<TwistedLucidity> "Some games use raw input instead of XInput or DirectInput and are not yet supported."
<TwistedLucidity> Still...I know what I want for my birthday. :-D
<popey> I wonder if I should put my steam account in my will
<foobarry> or at least the password in an envelope
<TwistedLucidity> popey: That's actually an interesting question, what happens with all one's accounts etc when one pegs it?
<popey> It's something i worry about now and then
<popey> Last time I asked this publicly, some people's responses were "I don't care, I'll be dead"
<TwistedLucidity> I guess it depends on what value (if any) is attached to those accounts.
<TwistedLucidity> And what the license terms are
 * brobostigon has in his will, that when i kick th bucket, all my star trek collectables go to my fiance.
<zmoylan-pi> nothing says love that a few 1000 obsessively collected models of the enterprise... :-P
 * zmoylan-pi nudges the box of my trek collection out of view with foot...
<brobostigon> :D
<TwistedLucidity> brobostigon: That's a physcial thing though, you own them. Digital? All you have is a license.
<brobostigon> TwistedLucidity: yes exactly,
<zmoylan-pi> i liked crt monitors as it allowed you to fit a lot of star trek micro machines on top of them... :-) https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fecx.images-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FI%2F5137MlMJWmL.jpg&f=1
<brobostigon> what does the law say about it? can a licence be transferred between people lik that?
<zmoylan-pi> i think there have been 1-2 cases were someone left digital licences of their collection to someone in their will... but it's new territory and will take decades to have a single definitive answer
<brobostigon> ah i see.
<zmoylan-pi> and you can bet that studios want the licence to die with the person as a profit generating scheme
<TwistedLucidity> Which is yet another reason to avoid DRM
<zmoylan-pi> which most people won't realise till they find out after someone dies and their collection died with them
<popey> meh, I'll just get the email address changed on my steam account :)
<zmoylan-pi> popey@heaven.org
<popey> popey@wormsfood.org
<zmoylan-pi> moylan@pushingupdaisies.ie
<TwistedLucidity> <name>@kicked.bucket
<popey> i should make a list...
<popey> domain renewals (to keep their email working), photos access... ugh
<zmoylan-pi> a kicked the bucket list...
<popey> when my dad died, his wife kept his facebook account active rather than 'memorialising' it, so every so often my dad pops up on facebook "he liked this"
<popey> which is annoying
<davmor2> popey: hahahahaha
<davmor2> popey: Maybe he does it to tell you there is an afterlife :)
<foobarry> why would a java process use only 362mb resident and 36G virtual mem?
<popey> if facebook is the afterlife, no thanks
<popey> ahh java
<popey> it's probably not *using* the virtual mem
<popey> just allocated it so when it wants, it can swap in/out as needed
<popey> look at vmstat, and see if it's actually doing si or so
<foobarry> but 36gb is unusally large
<foobarry> i know "yeah java"
<popey> hehe, nah it isnt :)
<popey> I used to work where we had systems with gigantic hundred GB swap partitions
<popey> for a java app
<diddledan> java does memory allocation itself, so it reserves a large chunk for potential future use IIRC
<foobarry> greedy java
<foobarry> i never want it to use that much
<zmoylan-pi> memory digger
<diddledan> I don't get how it doesn't reduce the available memory from the host when it reserves that large chunk tho
<zmoylan-pi> hey, lets make a mobile os and use the same tech! :-)
<popey> we used to have lengthy arguments with the systems guys who would refuse to allow us to allocate enough swap
<foobarry> popey: whats the asciidraw app you mentioned?
<popey> its a website
<foobarry> asciiflow?
<popey> sorry, yes
<popey> http://asciiflow.com/
<foobarry> ah, cool , yeah knew that one
 * popey considers lunch
<zmoylan-pi> it's good to see some people think ahead for unexpected eventualities... :-P http://www.itv.com/news/meridian/update/2016-09-09/emergency-potty-brought-out-for-people-stuck-in-i360/
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: looks like there was no privacy
<zmoylan-pi> it's britain, everyone would have politely turned their backs and hummed loudly to drown out embarrassing sounds... ;-)
<foobarry> still enjoying playing skyrim since buying the xbox360. shame i only get windows of around 1hr to play
<foobarry> most of that time i'm juggling stuff in my pockets
<foobarry> because they are always full
<zmoylan-pi> yeah, when i was playing diablo ii at work during lunchtimes i drove people nuts with 'i am overburdened'
<foobarry> i am sworn to carry your burdens
<popey> \o/ lunchtime quesadilla
<Gargoyle> Anyone got any recommendations for screen-sharing software that allows remote control (like ScreenHero).
<popey> Gargoyle: teamviewer?
<brobostigon> anyone familir with a java opensimulator client?
<diddledan> opensimulator. wassat?
<brobostigon> its an OSS version of second lifes servr software.
<diddledan> aah
<diddledan> is second life still a thing then? :-p
<brobostigon> yes, vaguely.
<knightwise> brobostigon: wonder if there are still more people using secondlife then irc
<zmoylan-pi> is there a way to get a definitive number of irc users?
<brobostigon> knightwise: good question.
<zmoylan-pi> i can access irc via my dumb phone so it would be accessible to billions who don't have access to computer required to access second life
<knightwise> I wonder if secondlife will be around long enough to witness the revolution of VR
<zmoylan-pi> it would have a slight head start with the amount of users and existing 3d creations
<knightwise> True. but it would look awefully "blocky" and "pixely" ..
<zmoylan-pi> i'd suspect someone has already made a vr unit for second life.... ::goes to check::
<knightwise> wait .. Thats kinda like minecraft so i think we will be fine
<zmoylan-pi> been blocky and pixely has really held back minecraft :-P
<zmoylan-pi> dynf :-D
<zmoylan-pi> you can use occulus rift on second life seemingly
<zmoylan-pi> and also google cardboard
 * zmoylan-pi remembers games like driller and tau ceti on the zx spectrum which were fairly complicated 3d worlds on an 8 bit processor
<zmoylan-pi> in the 80s...
<zmoylan-pi> the real problem with vr is that a % of people are 'allergic' to it and it makes them feel sick
<JAWC> I have wondered if AR would allow me to read without getting travel sick.
<zmoylan-pi> i found using a small screen was more comfy reading while in a moving vehicle.  a 2-3" screen versus 4-5" was more comfy. probaly allowed my brain to see more of the horizon moving than bigger screen blocking it out.
<zmoylan-pi> in same way they sea sickness is lessened if you go to part of ship were you can see horizon which tells your brain what's happening versus your inner ear which is sending bad info
#ubuntu-uk 2016-09-10
<mapps> hola
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<Janaton> WHO knows  persian language?
<Janaton> WHO knows  persian language?
<Janaton> WHO knows  persian language?
<Janaton> WHO knows  persian language?
<penguin42> the persians?
<Janaton> WHO knows  persian language?
<Janaton> WHO knows  persian language?
<Janaton> WHO knows  persian language?
<Janaton> WHO knows  persian language?
<Janaton> WHO knows  persian language?
<Janaton> WHO knows  persian language?
<Janaton> WHO knows  persian language?
<Gargoyle> been hunting for a password manager, and just found enpass! \o/
#ubuntu-uk 2016-09-11
<ball> Happy birthday Linux, I suppose.
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<dwatkins> good morning world
<brobostigon> morning dwatkins
<TheProphet[S]> Good morning all
<dogmatic69> hi all, I have been running a RAID1 (2x 3TB) and a SSD for boot. The SSD died and I cant remeber what I done to set up the raid as it was a few years ago
<dogmatic69> so Ive reinstalled from scratch on a new SSD and need to get the raid working.
<dogmatic69> it was a software raid, and somewhere in the mix I have mdadm config
<dogmatic69> any ideas what I need to do to make it work again?
<dogmatci69> :(
<dogmatci69> ok, I seem to have it running again. just need to make it automoutn as the old /etc/fstab I had does not work now
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<dogmatic69_> Any ideas why my UI keeps hanging. Brand new install of 16.04
<dogmatic69_> Mouse still works and keyboard works (can do the sysreq restart)
<dogmatic69_> UI does nothing. Happens around every 30 min
<dogmatic69_> Can't get into cli with alt+f2
 * penguin42 would bet on a graphics driver hang without anything else
<dogmatic69> This is the syslog around the time it crashed last https://gist.github.com/dogmatic69/026cfb71694d6a81bce32a29f7eacabf
 * penguin42 isn't sure if any of that is relevant
<penguin42> haha HMRC have a feedback button on a beta service page but the feedback is a http://localhost link
<diddledan> penguin42: if only they had a link to where you could report prolems like that!
<penguin42> diddledan: Yes....
 * penguin42 finds another feedback link
<dogmatic69_> penguin42: that is what I thought. Have installed the nonfee ones now. It was using the OS ones
<diddledan> oh dear: http://thenewstack.io/docker-fork-talk-split-now-table/
<diddledan> did anyone see this dropbox naughtiness? http://applehelpwriter.com/2016/07/28/revealing-dropboxs-dirty-little-security-hack/
<zmoylan-pi> ah, they're hacking apple... didn't apple sue google for a little hack on ios on their part?
#ubuntu-uk 2017-09-04
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2_> Morning all something to make you groan https://www.buzzfeed.com/stephenlaconte/jokes-that-will-make-you-say-i-hate-myself-for-laughing?bffbmain&ref=bffbmain&utm_term=.jbLZvG77l#.udYMzVXXl
<marshmn> what is it with USB (wired) network dongles? they just seem to stop working after a period of time
<marshmn> I've gone through about 3 in the last year
<marshmn> anyone have a recommended brand?
<zmoylan-pi> is it perhaps something you are doing to them, tugging the cable, putting pressure on the usb connection like the weight of the cable?
<marshmn> I thought that - but one of them has been sat in a cupboard where it's connected and doesn't move at all
<marshmn> it might be the case with one of them that gets carried in my bag
<zmoylan-pi> that would eliminate those ideas, unless it's an outlier and failed for some other random reason...
<marshmn> the cables on them don't feel especially flexible, so that sort of thing is always a worry
<marshmn> but I've not really found any that feel better quality than others TBH
<zmoylan-pi> just that if i have 1 item fail, it's me, 2 and it's suspicious and 3.... something wacky is happening
<marshmn> yeah
<daftykins> tried startech?
<marshmn> daftykins: yeah, the first one that broke was one of those :(
<marshmn> the one that seems to still be working the longest after I've bought it is a U-Green one
<marshmn> maybe I'll get another of those
<marshmn> just wondered what other people's experiences are
<zmoylan-pi> maybe try some strain relief seperate from the gizmo to hold the cables weight and keep it steady?
<daftykins> open one up to see if something simple is happening like the connector detaching?
<marshmn> yeah, both ideas worth trying
<marshmn> wonder how easy they are to get apart :)
<zmoylan-pi> you have 3 to experiment on... :-P
<marshmn> indeed :)
 * zmoylan-pi passes the 1kg lump hammer for delicate work...
<marshmn> oh I see the problem with it - it's been smashed by a lump hammer
<daftykins> my my
<zmoylan-pi> i played with a new nokia 2017 today.  it does run other apps... has a link to opera shop for nokia 3310 apps.
<zmoylan-pi> https://twitter.com/angryearthling/status/904770204277903360
<daftykins> :)
<zmoylan-pi> my dentist bought one for his daughter who's heading stateside and needs a backup phone in case of emergencies like fending off bears, muggers or terminators... :-P
<daftykins> my my, but who for a telco?
<marshmn> bears usually want the 7110
<diddledan> lxd is silly: Starting snapcraft-balmily-uniniquitous-gaylord
<diddledan> yey for random names
<daftykins> ooh-err
<diddledan> I'd say that was a spell well-cast: https://twitter.com/picturecats/status/904848811020996610
#ubuntu-uk 2017-09-05
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diplo> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning diplo
<diplo> Hows things brobostigon ?
<brobostigon> just smartened myself up for a job interview, and you?
<diplo> Good lad! Always good to look good, always made a difference for me when interviewing! Back to work after sending kiddos back to school today \o/
<brobostigon> :) \o/
<foobarry> shave every face hair :)
<foobarry> unless it makes you look 3 yrs old
 * brobostigon has a fairly well groomed full moustache, i aint shaving that off.
<diplo> Defo wouldn't pass the interview with a moustache!
<diplo> :P
<brobostigon> :(
<diplo> What times the interview brobostigon ? And what work/role?
<brobostigon> diplo: 11am, electronics, retail.
<diplo> Well good luck, retail :( but hope it all goes well mate!
<brobostigon> :)
<zmoylan-pi> fingers crossed you get the position
<zmoylan-pi> and agree about retail... my first job was in retail... i could have endured it if it weren't for the customers...
<MooDoo> howdy all
<ali1234> how do i install skype on ubuntu these days?
<ali1234> get the weird deb from skype.com?
<MooDoo> https://www.skype.com/en/download-skype/skype-for-linux/ yes it's a deb
<ali1234> does this version support desktop sharing?
<MooDoo> not sure without looking at the pag
<MooDoo> page
<MooDoo> doesn't mention it, so not sure
<davmor2> hey MooDoo
<ali1234> 4.3 (the old one) kind of supports it but the picture always comes out messed up and unreadable
<MooDoo> https://askubuntu.com/questions/930004/how-can-i-share-my-screen-with-skype-for-linux-5-3   don't think 5.3 supports it
<ali1234> i dont want to share my screen, i want to see other peoples - they're using windows
<ali1234> i note it says "outgoing"
<ali1234> probably an issue with screenscraping X
<diplo> I believe it sort of works ali1234 - I'm running it I think now, I can test with a colleague for you
<diplo> I think they've removed it, sure I saw it there before
<diplo> Ah, I remember now, I can view a shared screen, can't share mine
<ali1234> that's exactly what i need
<ali1234> seen on slashdot comments: "Elon is going to end up like Howard Hughes."
<ali1234> sounds about right...
<diddledan> speaking of elon musk. I've got a copy of alien covenant to watch
<diddledan> (peter weyland was totally modelled on elon, or vicky verky)
<diddledan> ref: https://vimeo.com/50383392
<ali1234> skype screen share was a total fail. worked for about 5 seconds, then turned into a blocky mess, then froze completely :(
<ali1234> luckily the firmware updater was just a big "UPDATE" button, nothing complicated
<MooDoo> Big red Button :)
<diddledan> OF DOOM
<ali1234> wait is that guy pierce?
<ali1234> *pearce
<ali1234> i had no idea he was in those movies
<diplo> How did your interview go brobostigon  ???
<brobostigon> diplo: i think nominally well,
<diplo> Good to hear, good luck!
<brobostigon> fingers and toes crossed.
 * diddledan offers good luck hugs
<diddledan> any excuse for a hug, really
<brobostigon> :)
<davmor2> hmmmm popey if you want to freak your kids out, go down aldi get the speaker/led light bulbs replace their lightbulbs and let the fun comence :D
<davmor2> not that I'm evil or anything
<davmor2> popey: oh not in stock till Thursday :D
<diddledan> interesting developments at konversation: https://blogs.kde.org/2017/09/05/konversation-2x-2018-new-user-interface-matrix-support-mobile-version
<diddledan> eesh, I've had to turn the lights on already
<diddledan> where did summer go?!
<diddledan> davmor2: even better would be speaker+led+smart
<diddledan> make the lights flicker
<diddledan> and ghostly wails
<diddledan> this is fun: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpKj4Avjmuo
<davmor2> diddledan: well plasma-mobile is still a thing so it would be for that I guess :)
<marshmn> I never knew that there is a ##baseball channel on Freenode
<daftykins> o rry
<daftykins> i tend to just watch it with folk i chat to anyway
<zmoylan-pi> baseball on irc... oh for the good old days of cricket on teletext? :-P
<daftykins> i uncovered a Dell PII at a clients today, i was asked to go around all the storage areas and turf out any old gear
<daftykins> used to use it as a smoothwall router
<zmoylan-pi> you could use the case for a rasp pi cluster... :-)
<diddledan> omg, snotwall is a name I've not heard in a long time!
<diddledan> are they even still going?!
 * diddledan googlies
<zmoylan-pi> so old, even i've heard of it :-P
<daftykins> might be, not sure about as a free product
<daftykins> last release 2014
<diddledan> oh god, they've gone corporate
<zmoylan-pi> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SmoothWall
<m0nkey_> diddledan: do I buy this? https://store.netgate.com/SG-3100.aspx
<daftykins> preorder o0
<diddledan> wtf is mikrobus?
<m0nkey_> daftykins: yes, it's a pre-order.
<m0nkey_> Coming out in October
<daftykins> i wouldn't fancy getting in on something early
<m0nkey_> diddledan: seems to be some kind of addon thing. like bluetooth, nfc all that crap. probably never use it.
<m0nkey_> I've been following this for a long time. It pushes GbE speeds without breaking a sweat.
<diddledan> looks quite decent
<diddledan> I like the fact you can add storage via m.2
<m0nkey_> That is handy. Plus drop in a LTE modem for backup :)
<daftykins> pssh maybe if you can get a decent low rate plan
<m0nkey_> Doubtful in Canada lol
<diddledan> so smoothwall are currently running linux 3.16
<diddledan> from their forum: "linux 3.16 was released during August 2014, thus Update8/SP3 may not support the latest hardware"
<daftykins> heh
<diddledan> no poo, sherlock!
<daftykins> 'cause you're totally buying a ryzen box for a router
<daftykins> ;D
<diddledan> well, I was thinking about it
<diddledan> :-p
<zmoylan-pi> it's new, it's shiny...
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: i played with the nokia 3310 2017 edition today!
<daftykins> no SIM though so couldn't see much
<diddledan> have you seen the size of those threadripper packages?!
<zmoylan-pi> since i found it has a link to opera app store i'm gonna have to look, but i now realise there's at least 2 different versions.  different in size when you see them together...
<diddledan> about twice the surface area of an i9: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Fr1ZlUu8v_Q/maxresdefault.jpg
<daftykins> diddledan: yeah, but then there's a layout of 2 x 2 and only 2 are real silicon! it's a faaaaaake! </DS9>
<diddledan> o_O
<daftykins> y'seen that?
<daftykins> not DS9, the 2 x 2 layout
<daftykins> http://cdn.overclock.net/c/c0/500x1000px-LL-c08df673_article-630x354.90c8d2d6.jpeg
<diddledan> so they've put four on the package but only two light up?
<daftykins> nah two are just dumb silicon i think that's just meant for contact
<daftykins> but it suggested that maybe they could put 4 real ones on the single package, mmm
<daftykins> assuming there's actually enough pins and gubbins for all that
<diddledan> I'm not understanding the "dumb silicon" bit
<daftykins> so not an actual fabbed chip but just a piece of metal
<diddledan> why not just leave it off entirely though?
<zmoylan-pi> different nokias on sale... https://twitter.com/angryearthling/status/905172242191015937
<daftykins> think it has some kind of cooling benefit, i forget - maybe it was just that it helps spread the pressure evenly
<daftykins> i've no idea where i read that now
<diddledan> of course, then you get the photoshops: http://images.anandtech.com/doci/11636/dbwthwoxkaeehmw-1.jpg.324b24f4c47236d1eaf463abf6ad95a3.jpg
<diddledan> I can tell that's shopped because of the pixies
<daftykins> i wonder if it's easy to tell if you've tightened the three screws of the socket enough :>
<diddledan> I think you've probably got a point about the potential for replacing the dead bits with live chips tho
<diddledan> futureproof the design upfront save inventing a new socket when you light up the dead zones
<diddledan> perhaps it has pressure sensors inside the package
<diddledan> :-p
<daftykins> ooh hey this looks relevant - https://www.overclock3d.net/news/cpu_mainboard/amd_clarifies_why_threadripper_uses_4_silicon_dies/1
<diddledan> why would you drop a grand on a chip like that and destroy it straight away?!
<diddledan> that der8auer must have money up the wazoo to cope with dropping that loss
<daftykins> heh delidding is common to get some proper cooling on there, obviously some crazy overclocker
<daftykins> there are scare stories of high end cooling solutions causing IHS' to pop and destroy everything
<diddledan> wat: "Analysts at Kerrisdale Capital Investments have predicted that AMD will file for bankruptcy in 2020"
<diddledan> oh, that article is two years old
<diddledan> even more wat then :-p
<daftykins> heh
<diddledan> analysts are a strange bunch trying to justify their existence by inventing random crud
<daftykins> did y'see intel have been scared enough to bump the new generation i7 to be a 6 core, 12 thread instead of stay 4/8 ?
<diddledan> I hadn't
<daftykins> coffee lake iirc
<diddledan> doesn't surprise me - amd really upped their game
<daftykins> mm, still trailing in a lot of ways i felt though (from benchmark glancing)
<daftykins> i can't really claim to do multithreaded stuff for AMD to apply to me
<diddledan> I wonder what they're like for compiling
 * diddledan unwraps a gentoo :-p
<daftykins> put that penguin down!
<diddledan> https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/call-for-testing-warzone-2100/2001
#ubuntu-uk 2017-09-06
<m0nkey_> Tuesday isn't going to be fun.
<m0nkey_> Filling and a tooth being pulled.
<davmor2> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<acheronuk> davmor2: ah. you lurk in here as you are in UK as well. handy to know :P
<davmor2> acheronuk: and I have and irssi proxy so it will mail me if you ping when I'm not here too :D
<foobarry> what linux books would you personally recommend to a complete beginner?
<zmoylan-pi> what are they going to be using linux for?
<foobarry> science
<foobarry> doing their MSc
<foobarry> http://www.oreilly.com/programming/free/files/ten-steps-to-linux-survival.pdf
<foobarry> think i found the basic beginner book i need
<foobarry> hmm except all the examples he uses are for a guy who has suddenly been told to administer machines
<foobarry> yeah thats the wrong book to use
<diplo> Depends what he is using linux for I guess, you say science, but is he running CLI apps or is gui based etc
<diplo> I've just moved a good friend who has just split up with her boyrfriend to linux ( really old laptop! ) with lubuntu and in the last two months after initial showing her I've had one call with issues
<zmoylan-pi> linux has gotten much more accessible. last time i set up a printer it took less than 5 minutes...
<zmoylan-pi> maybe a linux for dummies?
<zmoylan-pi> a little bit of everything
<diplo> yeah probably best I'd say, but I'd say if specific sciency stuff, maybe need to write some specific docs for them as numptyish as you can ?
<foobarry> its for a teaching intro to linux class
<davmor2> foobarry: what linux are they using, what are they using it for?
<foobarry> i wanted to recomend books for further reading but most are a bit dry or for sysads
<foobarry> basic stuff, logging into a server, catting, gzipping, cd'ing around, editing files in nano, scp'ing
<foobarry> i've written a short course but wanted to rec a further reading guide
<davmor2> foobarry: take the free linux foundation course on edx and forget the book
<foobarry> i think i tried that before and got spammed relentlessly and foudn the course tedious (but then again, i've been using for 25 years)
<zmoylan-pi> maybe a university has put together a linux guide for newbies that's available online for that?
<davmor2> foobarry: if they need a book then look to ones endorsed by the linux foundation they tend to be begginery enough
<davmor2> foobarry: right but it isn't for you right it is for a beginner
<davmor2> foobarry: and that is what the course is tailored for
<foobarry> zmoylan-pi: i am the university :D but yeah they/we do, just not as professional
<zmoylan-pi> maybe we're doing it wrong for this generation and maybe they just need a pointer to a youtube channel instead of a book?
<foobarry> yeah there are some ok youtube vids
<foobarry> can't remember the channel i found before that was good beginner level
<zmoylan-pi> videos are a bit more handholding for beginners but also can show the harder topics well
<foobarry> done by an american woman but not nixie
<zmoylan-pi> whereas books tend to go from dick and jane have a ball to here's the source code with a smidge of a gap in the middle...
<diddledan> https://youtu.be/Z40AsPaktzw
<diddledan> bah, I didn't get the time included in the url
<diddledan> https://youtu.be/Z40AsPaktzw?t=60
<m0nkey_> diddledan: I think I'll get it in blue.. https://corpshadow.biz/bizstore/apu-combo-kits/apu12c4-blue-combo-kit.html#/218-enclosure_type_-labelled/361-storage_-32gb_msata_ssd_module
<daftykins> woot
<daftykins> hmm i had someone down in Spain reconfigure the ISP supplied fibre router into dumb mode, then our one of those APU machines should have PPPoA auth'd fine, but it's not online it seems
<diddledan> https://www.nylas.com/blog/sunsetting-nylas-mail-development
 * zmoylan-pi adds this to diddledan's reading list... :-P https://www.amazon.com/dp/B075DYXZW1
<diddledan> haha, wat?!
<diddledan> err. I can't not odd
<zmoylan-pi> systemd is now offically a dirty word... :-P
 * diddledan surrounds himself in all the foam he borrowed off popey 
<diddledan> it's sooo close
<diddledan> popey: foam launches, downloads stuff as the user directs, but can't launch those stuff thereafter - also the inbuilt browser is blank :-(
#ubuntu-uk 2017-09-07
<diddledan> timee to snoozr
<diplo> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<popey> diddledan: oh dear, fancy filing an issue at https://github.com/snapcrafters/openfoam/issues ?
<diplo> Need to order a NAS 2 bay (2x4TB) for a customer - any recommendations ?
<daftykins> depends what you need feature wise, i've always been happy with the Synology DS21x's i put in
<daftykins> diplo: ^
<diplo> It's just samba, and backup to a usb or maybe remote
<diplo> daftykins:
<daftykins> sounds good
<daftykins> i even run openvpn endpoints from the little guys :>
<diplo> Yeha I looked at the DS216 and someone just recommended Qnap TS-253a
<daftykins> i always found the QNAPs dearer, i think - never tried one myself but i get on well with the synologys
<m0nkey_> A freenas box :)
<daftykins> not worth it
<diddledan> popey: different foam methinks :-p
<diddledan> popey: this is your +junk/foam
<diddledan> popey: the one that has a lot of vapour/steam
<diplo> Thanks for input daftykins
<diddledan> diplo: go.bwlh.at/2eJA2OY
<diplo> hah, I was worried about following that link but I actually had a little lol
<diddledan> :-)
<diplo> You're getting me interested in playing in snaps diddledan  :(
<diddledan> ergh, I'm starting to turn into a browser tab whore
<zmoylan-pi> 640 tabs is enough for anyone
<diplo> Any recommend a tutorial for doing a Github PR ?
<diplo> Done one, just want to check I did it correctly
<diddledan> sabdfl was on the Beeb this morning?!
<diddledan> dear god, that's hideous: https://twitter.com/MacRumors/status/905816141703946243
<zmoylan-pi> steve jobs will be spinning in his urn...
<diddledan> your heart is hackable: https://twitter.com/InfoSecHotSpot/status/905816891595395072
<zmoylan-pi> saw that, when they put a pacemaker in dick cheney they disabled the wireless features...
<diddledan> I'm rocking awesome at dev:  https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/bRe9uJrO/
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> first try
#ubuntu-uk 2017-09-08
<diplo> Morning all, anyone deployed AWX yet ( Ansible Tower )
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls
<diplo> Morning brobostigon, any news yet ?
<brobostigon> diplo: no, not yet, i was going to email them.
<diplo> Worth a try, I hear its not very often you get a reply if you haven't got the job now adays ( I found that after some interviews recently ) one took over a month to come back to me
<brobostigon> yes, thats nominally accurate, i think on average i hear back from about 2/10.
<diplo> I really must start looking myself again at some point
<brobostigon> :)
<christel> morning you guys! :)
<diplo> Hey christel
<brobostigon> morning christel :)
 * daftykins yawns despite being up since 7
<foobarry> can anyone recommend a vga switcher? my father in law has a belkin and its not working as expected
<foobarry>  Belkin Flip USB KVM Switch Model No: F1DF102U.
<daftykins> VGA :(
<foobarry> yeah. he has apple devices and apple big screen
<foobarry> but i can't get sufficient info out of him about the connections
<daftykins> they must be museum pieces, what's it doing? could be bad unshielded cables
<foobarry> they are modern apples
<daftykins> probably a lot better choice available then :D but nah never bought a KVM
<foobarry> do apple screens have display port?
<foobarry> e.g. this one? https://www.apple.com/uk/shop/product/HD505ZM/A/kensington-safestand-secure-clicksafe-keyed-locking-station?fnode=8a
<daftykins> not aware of any iMacs allowing external input
<daftykins> ugh paperwork from NatWest asking me where i'm a tax resident, old account in England from Uni time
<foobarry> is there a list of recommendations for how to make unity snappy? popey had done some i think?
<foobarry> i have to deploy a load which will be accessed remotely using vmware VDI
<daftykins> is it wise to put in at all given it's dead? suppose you only have the life of 16.04 LTS left
<foobarry> its for a student course for a year
<daftykins> ah-ha
<awilkins> Well, Xenial is LTS to 2021
<awilkins> Thank heavens, I *hate* GNOME shell as presented in 17.10
<awilkins> Tried it out on my laptop and just went *yuk* and rolled back to xenial within a week - even though I had 17.04 on it in the first place.
<daftykins> ;]
<awilkins> popey's enthusiastic posts about it notwithstanding, they just feel like Stockholm Syndrome to me :-P
<popey> I have 16.04 on my main laptop
<awilkins> Tried Unity 8 on 17.10 but it just doesnae work at all.
<daftykins> :)
<diddledan> popey: how long are ya'll in frenchland?
<popey> Fly back Monday
<diddledan> fly?!
<diddledan> choochoo!
<diddledan> sabdfl is at 16:50 http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b093yyjg/bbc-business-live-07092017#
<diddledan> annoying that the presenters were more interested in talking about space than Ubuntu
<daftykins> but spaaaaace!
 * zmoylan-pi wonders what foss software is running on iss...
#ubuntu-uk 2017-09-09
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<m0nkey_> Morning campers
<zmoylan-pi> hi-di-hi
<m0nkey_> Hi de ho
<zmoylan-pi> +++ the knobbly knees competition is starting now beside the swimming pool *bing* *bong* *bing* +++
 * diddledan knobbles his knees
<daftykins> ah the diddler is knobbling
<m0nkey_> So much love for Linux at a BSD conference :)
<daftykins> oh?
<m0nkey_> Actually, there is very little Linux bashing
 * m0nkey_ is at vBSDCon in Reston, VA.
<daftykins> what's that trip in aid of, you work at a BSD shop?
<m0nkey_> If you're curious.. http://vbsdcon.com
<daftykins> ta
<m0nkey_> I'm here because I want to be. Nothing to do with work.
<m0nkey_> Keep in mind I'm quite an active person in the FreeNAS community and by extension, the FreeBSD community.
<daftykins> ah right
 * daftykins has no idea
<daftykins> wow live stream from Florida as Hurricane Irma approaches - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNiJCZ2nCvU
<daftykins> well allegedly anyway
<m0nkey_> Paul VIxie is now speaking, the creator of Vixie cron
<diddledan> I just rearranged the letters of the new Alien movie to make a much more scary title: Alien Convent
<daftykins> Sister Act edition
<zmoylan-pi> or the graphic version of alien 3: alien vent con...
<zmoylan-pi> and as fr. dougal pointed out bishops love scifi so they'd be all over alien convent... :-P
 * penguin42 is sure Bishop would love it
<daftykins> just as soon as he's done squirting milk everywhere, that messy fella
<penguin42> bizarre, my bank has a note for my branch that has 'for sort codes...' use one fax number and for others use a different fax - but same telephone
<zmoylan-pi> maybe an old regional grouping that now only affects fax services?
<daftykins> new client today is one of these ones that falls for cheap copies of Office on ebay/amazon, oh dear oh dear
<zmoylan-pi> did you at least get an original set of wordstar floppies? :-)
<daftykins> :>
<zmoylan-pi> did they not at least try for using one of their kids details for a student licence? :-P
<daftykins> ^_^ not this time
<daftykins> was pretty obvious when i saw that it was "office 2016 professional plus" installed, highly unlikely for a 2 man business
<zmoylan-pi> but they probably saved a fortune!!
<daftykins> :P
#ubuntu-uk 2017-09-10
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<m0nkey_> Aloha
<m0nkey_> Greetings from the BSD side :D
<penguin42> ewwww
<m0nkey_> lol
<m0nkey_> There will always be a place in my heart for the penguin
 * penguin42 beats on m0nkey_'s atrium
 * m0nkey_ throws poo at penguin42
 * penguin42 dodges
<m0nkey_> So I have time to kill before my flight
<m0nkey_> What can I do at IAD airport without getting into trouble?
<penguin42> watch Die Hard 2
<m0nkey_> Ooh, I have that movie on my Plex
<zmoylan-pi> airplane...
<daftykins> :)
<diddledan> a good one would be any that involve hijacked planes
<diddledan> give yourself a good scare before you fly :-p
<zmoylan-pi> 10 best plane crashes in movies... :-P https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOrt2yXcGZk
<daftykins> diddledan: kitty tax: http://i.imgur.com/1QOjPRj.jpg
 * diddledan cuddles the kitty burrito
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> i think you mean a purrito, sir
<diddledan> :-)
<daftykins> my friend called it that when she would roll her lad up in a towel to give him his medication
<daftykins> with no paws free he'd just lap up the fluid of antibiotics, i think it was
 * zmoylan-pi remembers my dad wearing motorbike gauntlets using a bic pen as a pea shooter to deliver a pill to cats throat...
<daftykins> XD
<zmoylan-pi> i think the thing they recommend now is grind the pills up in butter and rub it on their fur if they're difficult
<zmoylan-pi> they'll lick it off
<daftykins> a mate of mines parents had a diabetic cat, now that would be mad
<zmoylan-pi> pin prick cat to test blood sugars, then jab cat with insulin, then pop down to a+e for stitches and sympathy... :-P
<daftykins> take cat for added bonus :D
<zmoylan-pi> on plus side, you'll know who the most infected person there is as cat will want to sleep on lap of person with highest temperature... :-P
<diddledan> I really wish people would stop posting my router's IP address on the Internet. I don't even get how they randomly chose my IP anyway!! They're like "blah blah 192.168.x.x" and I'm like STFU, quit telling everyone where I am!
 * m0nkey_ pings 192.168.1.2
 * zmoylan-pi pings 127.0.0.1 3 times while saying 'there's no place like home'...
