#xubuntu-devel 2010-09-02
<charlie-tca> Team reports need to be updated for August 2010, if you have not done so already
<charlie-tca> Maverick Beta is out! now to get our own news updated on http://xubuntu.org
#xubuntu-devel 2010-09-03
<charlie-tca> cody-somerville, pleia2, others : blog about xubuntu maverick beta! We got new wallpaper, new gtk theme, working well, few bugs
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: have you looked at bug 613054 yet?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 613054 in xfce4-mixer (Ubuntu) "xfce4-mixer muted on login" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/613054
<charlie-tca> Not really high priority, but really irritating ;-(
<mr_pouit> hmpf, probably another issue with alsa/gstreamer
#xubuntu-devel 2010-09-04
<charlie-tca> Have we updated the team report for August? It is important to keep the report updated, as it is published in the Ubuntu Weekly News for all to read.
<charlie-tca> Updating is easy - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/TeamReports
<mr_pouit> I added a few entries (I don't remember anything from august, but it's a start :p)
<charlie-tca> Great! Thank you
<charlie-tca> crimsun_: I don't actually know how to play any sounds at the login screen to check the mute bug. any hints would be greatly appreciated
<crimsun_> charlie-tca: it actually doesn't matter if you try at the display manager. You can switch to tty1, login, and try speaker-test -c2 -l1 -Dplug:front
<charlie-tca> Okay. I can do that. thanks
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca: re: Bug #613034 > do you see the "graphical" plymouth theme, or the "text" one? (the text one is probably the fallback with drivers that don't support kms)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 613034 in xubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "Xubuntu splash screen is showing Ubuntu 10.10" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/613034
<charlie-tca> test
<charlie-tca> text screen
<mr_pouit> because xubuntu-artwork only provide a graphical theme, not a text one (I can reproduce this in virtualbox which uses the text one)
<mr_pouit> okay, then that's the reason
<charlie-tca> aw, crap. You are right, too. Nvidia card again
<charlie-tca> We are still waiting on the hardware drivers to get straightened out
<charlie-tca> Okay, updating the other system to test these things, too
<mr_pouit> yeah, so we're back again at the "let's have someone make a proper plymouth theme" :}
<charlie-tca> thorn in the side, huh?
<charlie-tca> I get the xubuntu splash now on the box using nouveau
<mr_pouit> yeah, nouveau supports kms, so plymouth shows the graphical theme :)
<charlie-tca> Thanks. 
<charlie-tca> crimsun_: no sound at all before/after logging in without going through the Workaround I gave in the bug report.
<charlie-tca> big 613054
<charlie-tca> bug 613054
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 613054 in xfce4-mixer (Ubuntu) "xfce4-mixer muted on login" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/613054
<crimsun_> charlie-tca: so, please reboot, login at tty1, and use "sudo alsactl init 0"
<crimsun_> charlie-tca: then log in at the display manager
<charlie-tca> oaky, will do
<crimsun_> charlie-tca: let me know if that resolves your symptom
#xubuntu-devel 2010-09-05
<crimsun_> charlie-tca: I just committed a fix for your 613054
<crimsun_> charlie-tca: I'm going to let it stew a couple hours for other devs to test it before I push it
<charlie-tca> Thank you
<charlie-tca> anything I can do to help?
<crimsun_> test it, I think?
<crimsun_> it's a very simple change, actually, a one-liner
<crimsun_> (flood coming)
<crimsun_> === modified file 'debian/udev.script'
<crimsun_> --- debian/udev.script  2009-11-06 00:17:14 +0000
<crimsun_> +++ debian/udev.script  2010-09-05 15:55:28 +0000
<crimsun_> @@ -5,6 +5,6 @@
<crimsun_>  (
<crimsun_>         DEV_BASENAME="${DEVNAME##*/}"
<crimsun_>         N="${DEV_BASENAME#controlC}"
<crimsun_> -       exec /sbin/alsa-utils start $N
<crimsun_> +       exec /sbin/alsactl init $N
<crimsun_> just apply that change to /lib/udev/alsa-utils
<charlie-tca> I will give it go
<charlie-tca> crimsun_: It does not work on my maverick 386 install
<charlie-tca> fails to unmute
<charlie-tca> volume drops to 2% and is muted when I boot now
#xubuntu-devel 2011-08-29
<micahg> ugh, indicators seem broke on armel
<micahg> was missing xfce4-indicator-plugin...wonder what's missing dependencies
<knome> charlie-tca, https://code.launchpad.net/~knome/debian-cd/xubuntu-logo/+merge/72497
<knome> charlie-tca, as long as there is no progress on that, there is no way the logo would be on the livecd
<knome> charlie-tca, so you might want to subscribe to the branch
<Unit193> Not bad, but you didn't add glow to it? ;)
<knome> i did
<Unit193> Hmmm... Ok, I'll wait since seems I'm looking at the wrong image :P
<Unit193> Anywho, nice update, maybe I should try sleep :P
<Unit193> Mon, 29 Aug 2011 05:25:26 -0400
<knome> :P
<knome> night
<knome> s/anywho/anyhow/
<Unit193> Normally yes, but not quite :P
<knome> anywho is not a word :P
<Unit193> Yeah, but I actually use it in person too much
<knome> :|
<Unit193> Good night
<knome> nighty
<charlie-tca> knome: Just saying "no, it isn't done yet. it is waiting for ???" would be a much nicer update
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca: hey, the alacarte/garcon issue isn't reproducible with the default xubuntu session. But if I use a vanilla xfce desktop (not customized by xubuntu, e.g. the "xfce" session), simply opening and closing alacarte triggered the bug here
<mr_pouit> and installing the package from -proposed fixed it
<mr_pouit> (but since I'm the uploader, I can't really mark as "verification-done" my own upload ;-)
<charlie-tca> Okay, I will try that then.
<charlie-tca> I will get it verification-done today
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: don't even have to start alacarte in the xfce session if it was run in the Xubuntu session. 
<charlie-tca> The xfce session doesn't have any menus
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: verification-done
<charlie-tca> Thanks for the help getting the thing done.
<mr_pouit> no, thank you for the verification ;-)
<charlie-tca> you are very welcome
<charlie-tca> madnick: I am getting the plymouth script error at L:205 C:2 also now
<madnick> charlie-tca: Yeah, thats probably the 16 bit fix that moved down the error
<charlie-tca> We have two solitarie entries now, in Games, Freecell Solitaire and Aisleriot Solitaire
<micahg> :(
<charlie-tca> Aisleritot lets you play many different games, but Freecell is a single game
<charlie-tca> Both from Gnome Games, though
<micahg> charlie-tca: can you tell which package has the freecell desktop file?
<charlie-tca> looking
<charlie-tca> exec=/usr/games/sol --freecell
<charlie-tca> comes with aisleriot
<micahg> so aisleriot ships 2 .desktop files?
<charlie-tca> yup
<micahg> that's silly :(
<charlie-tca> appears to be true
<charlie-tca> my natty to oneiric upgrade just dumped 
<charlie-tca> looks like a core dump on my monitor
<charlie-tca> keyboard is frozen; maybe it is a kernel panic without the lights
<charlie-tca> I guess upgrading after verifying the -proposed package was a bad idea
<charlie-tca> will install natty and try again.
<micahg> charlie-tca: the othre question is do we care, this seems intentional from upstream
<charlie-tca> I don't care. If our menus get cluttered, we can fix it, but realistically, not unless mr_pouit finds it necessary
<charlie-tca> I can live with two games, as long as we know about it
<charlie-tca> ochosi: what are chances of putting places in the launcher panel, instead of thunar as we have it
<charlie-tca> ochosi: what I find is I have too many folders in /home/USER, and the list is about two times longer then my monitor
<ochosi> charlie-tca: the only problem i see with places is that afair the mounting/unmounting doesn't work anymore (or not yet, depending on viewpoint)
<charlie-tca> I thought that was fixed, but if not, that is a good reason
<ochosi> i mean we could replace it with a simple link that will open /home/$USER in thunar
<ochosi> unfortunately i'll be really busy till the end of this week, so no chance for me to do serious testing
<charlie-tca> It doesn't matter. I haven't seen any complaints about it, so it must be okay the way it is.
<ochosi> hmyeah. true. also: it's easy enough to remove/exchange that item in the panel
<charlie-tca> yup
<charlie-tca> Although that doesn't happen until we do tell them it is simply launchers in a panel
<ochosi> but the faq is around the corner, no?
<charlie-tca> yes, is that in it?
<ochosi> tbh i dunno, i assumed it would be
<charlie-tca> We better ask GridCube just to make sure
<charlie-tca> reinstalling Natty to see why my upgrade blew itself up
<ochosi> k, g2g now, see you
<madnick> I am unable to get lightdm's test mode to work
<madnick> and I cannot rely on the developer docs, since the examples are wrong, this is really quite frustrating
<charlie-tca> agreed
<charlie-tca> We fight that battle constantly, it seems
<madnick> Im not the one to give up, but, it really seems like a good idea to wait with this until LightDM has a stable foundation
<madnick> That isnt changing every week
<charlie-tca> Okay, what we have works, right?
<madnick> Yes
<charlie-tca> Let's not break you trying to get it fixed,t hen
<charlie-tca> Let's give it until we start on the next release, and see if it can be done then.
<charlie-tca> Thanks for trying so hard to make it work.
<madnick> :)
<madnick> Not really sure why they are not interested in having correct information in the docs
<charlie-tca> Single developer for lightdm, he has done it from scratch, and probably doesn't have time to keep it working for Unity and update docs
<madnick> I suppose
<charlie-tca> I know the developer, he has tried hard to keep the docs as up-to-date as he could, but it does become overwhelming
 * charlie-tca adds (it was not his primary job either)
<madnick> Well, he has made something really cool :) 
<madnick> But the rush to send it out, has created alot of problems for several distrubtions
<madnick> ship it*
<charlie-tca> heh, actually, those issues didn't exist until unity got involved
<charlie-tca> It worked befor
<charlie-tca> I guess I blame Ubuntu for screwing it up for all the rest of us
<dtchen> uploaded a new xubuntu-docs (11.04.1) to resolve the FTBFS and resync it with ubuntu-docs's semantics WRT the removal of the firefox-homepage alternative
<dtchen> (it's awaiting archive admin approval currently)
<charlie-tca> Thanks!
<dtchen> I couldn't find a bzr/git/etc. branch to push the changes to, however
<dtchen> i.e., please scream loudly and poke me if I overlooked something :-)
<micahg> dtchen: please version as 11.10.0
<charlie-tca> Is this the branch? bazaar/xubuntu-docs/desktop-guide/index.xml
<micahg> dtchen: bzr branch at lp:xubuntu-docs
<charlie-tca> I don't really know, it is very convoluted as I recall
<micahg> dtchen: and thanks!
<dtchen> micahg: ok, I can do that for the next upload.
<micahg> actually, lp:xubuntu-docs points to the natty branch, I'll have to get someone to push an oneiric branch for it
<dtchen> yeah, that's one reason I chose 11.04.1
<dtchen> nevertheless, not a bug deal to bump
<dtchen> s/bug/big/
* ChanServ changed the topic of #xubuntu-devel to: Xubuntu Development | Oneiric Ocelot Feature Freeze in effect | #xubuntu for support | Schedule: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricReleaseSchedule | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu | Xubuntu Community meeting 2011-09-05 at 19:00 UTC | Oneiric Beta1 Candidate images at http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/
<marc_smith> hello all. I hope it is a right channel to ask my question. What is the future of Xubuntu? can I be sure that no Unity or other non-XFCE gadgets would be added to Xubuntu? I'd like to stick to Xubuntu to create solid OS platform for me and for my clients
<marc_smith> I wasn't able to find information about Xubuntu future or a roadmap
<charlie-tca> Unity is a shell for Gnome, Xfce is not Gnome
<charlie-tca> We can not guarantee that Xfce will never add a shell to it's environment, of course, but there is no plan at the present to do that
<marc_smith> cool. That's what I wanted to know I guess. Thank you very much
<charlie-tca> The plan for Xubuntu is to use Xfce, and add what is needed to make a usable desktop 
<charlie-tca> This is our guidelines we try to maintain:
<charlie-tca> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/StrategyDocument
<marc_smith> I just thought to myself: "Xubuntu is XFCE and Ubuntu, but who knows the future?". That's why I wanted to make sure
<charlie-tca> We build on Ubuntu, because it allows to use the repositories and servers
<marc_smith> thanks, charlie-tca. I highly appreciate your help
<charlie-tca> You are welcome. I hope it puts your mind at ease
<marc_smith> yes
<marc_smith> PS I really like the way Xubuntu developers make us of the XFCE panel, so it gives some users look and feel of unity. It is easy to change, so others are not force to remove some external software. Very smart
<marc_smith> use*
<charlie-tca> Got about three more hours on this upgrade test; going buy a pair of shoes while it runs
<charlie-tca> still another hour to installing the upgrades...
<Unit193> I don't want your connection....
<charlie-tca> I don't think it is the connection, it is just a slow computer
<charlie-tca> I hate doing upgrades, because they take so long
<micahg> charlie-tca: you should set up an apt-cache (apt-cacher-ng)
<micahg> oh, yeah, that part is slow too
<charlie-tca> I don't know how to set that up
 * charlie-tca is "just a user" :)
 * Unit193 is also a user
<Unit193> Q: Does it matter what time of day I do the tests? What is the cutoff time?
<charlie-tca> The time to test is when you can. The cutoff is Thursday morning by 8:00 UTC. The images and tests required are on the ISO tracker at 
<charlie-tca> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/
<charlie-tca> and the coordination is done using #ubuntu-testing
<charlie-tca> I have tried to set up apt-cache, and got lost in the docs. I never could make it work, though
<charlie-tca> Unit193: and if I dare say it, I spend about 18 hours a day in #ubuntu-testing for Tues and Wed
<charlie-tca> or at least it seems like it
<mr_pouit> mmh mmh, I just approved a mail from the modeartion queue
<mr_pouit> but he already asked his question here ;]
<charlie-tca> oh, that one
<mr_pouit> (marc_smith)
<charlie-tca> yeah, he seemed happy with my answer too
<charlie-tca> Should I answer again then?
<mr_pouit> maybe say it has already been handled on irc?
<charlie-tca> Sure
<mr_pouit> (so other people won't start writing long mails about that :p)
<charlie-tca> Works for me
<mr_pouit> thanks
<charlie-tca> no problem
<charlie-tca> upgrade i386 natty to oneiric worked
<charlie-tca> will now begin the 64bit natty to oneiric upgrade test
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: one ML would have been enough. Asked here, on xubuntu-devel ML, and on xubuntu-user ML. Anywhere else yet?
<charlie-tca> Testers:  New daily-live image just posted. If you are testing oneiric, please sync again
<charlie-tca> Going out to eat; will finish the 64bit upgrade tonight
<pleia2> knome: did you see Stephanie's email? Can we split the plugin into another LP project?
<knome> pleia2, we can, but that seems like hair-splitting
<knome> pleia2, can it really be so hard to review them as is?
<pleia2> knome: they probably manage plugins and themes separately (there is a pretty good chance they approve a plugin and make it available for everyone)
<pleia2> I am just making stuff up, but it's what I'd do, I understand it
<knome> pleia2, does that mean the plugin will become copyrighted to canonical?
<pleia2> knome: no
<knome> pleia2, i thought we only needed a review for the plugin to get it included.
<pleia2> well, they need to install it too
<knome> of course but... i just don't understand.
<knome> i suppose we can do that, but that increases the amount of work WE have to do
<pleia2> want me to manage it?
<pleia2> I don't mind
 * pleia2 sympathizes with her fellow sysadmins
 * knome breathes in and out slowly
<knome> can we create two separate branches for the project, one for the theme and one for the plugins?
<pleia2> she asked for separate projects
<pleia2> you can ask though
<knome> i wouldn't want an another project for the plugin(s), because right now it is only that plugin, and i have no intention to keep it managed in launchpad
 * pleia2 sighs
 * knome too
<pleia2> I'll think about it and reply tomorrow, I'm on day 8 of straight work and my mind hurts
<knome> yeah
<knome> can you get back to me before the reply?
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> i'll think about it too, but it just feels weird to manage our stuff in different places
<pleia2> the other wordpress site I worked on with canonical was the news team one, and they managed the lp side themselves
<knome> yeah. we've come the half way now, and i think it's their turn now.
#xubuntu-devel 2011-08-30
<pleia2> on the bright side, the rivers around philly seem to have finally crested so the flooding should stop ruining my life \o/
<pleia2> (stupid power and internet outages)
<knome> good to hear
 * pleia2 detatches from computer
<knome> oki, see you
<charlie-tca> knome: what is the status of the logo for the menus?
<Unit193> Looks to me as if it's still pending, but what would I know?
<charlie-tca> apparently, knome has decided to keep it a secret. I will have to guess it is not going to happen
<Unit193> It's up to someone else now, nothing he can do but bug him
<GridCube> my university proxy is blocking irc :|
<madnick> GridCube: ssh then? :)
<GridCube> i can't even use webirc, tho that might have to be whit the university's servers are failing
<GridCube> i dont know how to ssh
<GridCube> :(
<madnick> Well, do you have a box that is mostly online all the time at home+
<madnick> ?*
<GridCube> i can have 
<GridCube> if i turn it up when i leave :P
 * GridCube thinks this is offtopic
<madnick> Ill assume it'd be running xubuntu :P so just apt-get ssh-server
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca: https://code.launchpad.net/~knome/debian-cd/xubuntu-logo/+merge/72497 (knome gave this link, and it's not really a secretâ¦)
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: I still don't know what the url means. Is the updated logo on hold until after beta1, or until LTS, or what?
<mr_pouit> "Status: Needs review", and "Reviewer: Colin Watson; Status: pending"
<mr_pouit> no more info than that
<mr_pouit> I guess you'll have to ask Colin for a timeframe
<charlie-tca> Thank you
<charlie-tca> I will push cjwatson after beta1 then.
<charlie-tca> I don't think I will ever understand all this stuff. I can push when someone tells me what needs pushing.
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: another lightdm configuration change taking place
<charlie-tca>       ev | http://paste.ubuntu.com/678006/                                               
<charlie-tca>  superm1 | that will be fine for mythbuntu, xubuntu will need to add a commented out #autologin-user= line to their default conf          
<charlie-tca> ev | patches welcome, should be fairly straightforward 
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca: we don't ship a default conf
<charlie-tca> I thought we had one in /usr/share/xubuntu/ something
<mr_pouit> not for lightdm
<charlie-tca> Oh, okay. I can't get them to tell me more, either
<charlie-tca> I am tired today. Maybe I am just getting frustrated, they just dropped a new kernel, too. Maybe it will not affect us, though
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: 
<charlie-tca> charlie-tca | superm1: Xubuntu is not shipping any lightdm.conf file                    
<charlie-tca> ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** **  
<charlie-tca>     superm1 | charlie-tca, yeah you are, the postinst creates it                        
<charlie-tca>     superm1 | via lightdm-set-defaults                                                  
<charlie-tca> alternate images will be re-built again
<charlie-tca> hm, I sure am hating software center. It is difficult to tell an application is even installing.
<charlie-tca> no password required to install either
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: can you upload https://code.launchpad.net/~knome/debian-cd/xubuntu-logo/+merge/72497
<charlie-tca> so we can get it in beta1?
<charlie-tca> or knome ?
<charlie-tca> or micahg ?
<charlie-tca> I have it approved
<micahg> charlie-tca: in the middle of something at the moment, will get back to you when I have a minute
<charlie-tca> okay
<charlie-tca> Approved by pitti and skaet
<charlie-tca> I think that is what it is waiting for, is the approvals
<charlie-tca> lightdm on 64bit upgrade has no icons, clock in center across top; black panel on top
<charlie-tca> this seems to be limited to upgrades. Fresh installs are fine
<charlie-tca> plymouth looks great!
<charlie-tca> hm, probable problem with plymouth... It doesn't tell me to remove the cd anymore, it just waits for me to and then hit enter.
<madnick> That is acctually quite odd, because thats a message, and messages should be handleded properly
<madnick> let me try
<charlie-tca> maybe related to the disappearing splash screen then?
<charlie-tca> I get text, and the bouncing slider, but no splash
<madnick> yeah the message function works
 * madnick checks if the prompt works
<charlie-tca> hm, I don't have a camera, so I can't get a picture. I have on screen:
<charlie-tca> * Stopping save sound card(s') mixer state(s)
<charlie-tca> * Starting Userspace bootsplash utility
<charlie-tca> and the bouncing slider
<charlie-tca> but the cd ejected from the drive
<charlie-tca> I don't get a prompt to remove it and hit enter to continue
<madnick> hm, hold on ill check something
<charlie-tca> These are both live cd's
<madnick> charlie-tca: hm
<madnick> It is possibly
<madnick> that they are sending an "ask-question --prompt"
<madnick> to plymouth
<madnick> and that is not implemented, because I honestly did not think it was used
<madnick> But I am unable to confirm this
<madnick> Because I cannot find where the commands sends to plymouth are located
<charlie-tca> I see
<charlie-tca> anything is possible
<charlie-tca> probably comes from caspar or ubiquity
<charlie-tca> caspar runs the live session, ubiquity runs the installer
<madnick> yeah
<charlie-tca> well, I must say, colors when installing using "install Xubuntu"  from the menu are really unique!
<madnick> charlie-tca: but if this is the case, it must not have shown anything like this for 11.04 either
<charlie-tca> Oh, that is possible
<charlie-tca> We didn't get a lot of things to work in 11.04...
<madnick> I fixed this locally
<madnick> I need to get an image
<madnick> Acctually, its not sustainable to install to try the fix, i will need to find the commands sent
<madnick> ill run a massive cat :)
<charlie-tca> the oneiric desktop images are good today
<madnick> charlie-tca: catfish is broken on my image
<madnick> but its acctually not todays
<madnick> Ill get todays
<charlie-tca> I have both installing now. I will check it when they finish
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit, knome, micahg : did we get the logo fix uploaded? all images are going to be re-built, and we can get that in them for beta1
<micahg> I should be free in about 30 minutes, can look then, images won't be respun for about 4 hrs
<micahg> well, freer...
<charlie-tca> Okay. As long we got it, I think it would be really nice to get it in 
<charlie-tca> knome puts a lot of time and effort into getting things to work, I think. If it just takes the upload now, ...
<madnick> hm, i think it runs "ask-question" in order to wait for an enter key, to run "eject" of the install media
<madnick> This is not good :|
<madnick> Does it automatically eject?
<charlie-tca> yes
<charlie-tca> eject is automatic, then it should say :
<charlie-tca> Please remove the cd and hit enter to continue
<madnick> Then perhaps it waits for enter to reboot, oh well, ill fix it
<charlie-tca> and it won't go on until the enter key is hit
<madnick> http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/fix.png
<madnick> I still need to find the acctual command passed tho
<charlie-tca> Yeah, that's it, but will it show if the splash screen doesn't?
<madnick> Nope, but that is when the text theme kicks in
<charlie-tca> okay
<madnick> And im not sure that you can script that tbh
<charlie-tca> okay. It will be okay, anyway
<madnick> Not sure what the .so files does
<charlie-tca> so, I will file a bug for that, so mr_pouit has one to put the fix against and we don't forget it.
<madnick> it seems the ubuntu version loads a .so file
<madnick> which is a libary
<charlie-tca> which one is it?
<madnick> 1 sec
<madnick> Nope xubuntu-text loads that as well
<charlie-tca> this is for desktop images only, right?
<charlie-tca> alternate give a message to remove the installation media and give the message.
<madnick> perhaps it does not run plymouth 
<madnick> on alternate installs
<charlie-tca> it doesn't use plymouth, no
<charlie-tca> plymouth is used on live sessions and installations only, as far as I remember
<charlie-tca> 386 desktop passes; unfortunately, all images will be rebuilt again tonight
<charlie-tca> madnick: does it help if I tell you the message should appear after ubiquity closes?
<madnick> Not sure :) I need to find the acctual script that invokes plymouth with that message/prompt 
<charlie-tca> Okay, I am going for a walk. by the time things get rebuilt, I may be sleeping again...
<madnick> ill upload the fix, because i have to go, i still want to know what is invoked, but if someone else figures that out, the fix is ready
<micahg> charlie-tca: ok, what needs to be done?
<madnick> http://madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/xubuntu-draft.script
<madnick> micahg: do you happen to know what invokes plymouth with a prompt to remove install media after install?
<charlie-tca> micahg: I don't understand all of it, but I asked pitti and skaet if we could push this through and they said okay:
<charlie-tca> https://code.launchpad.net/~knome/debian-cd/xubuntu-logo/+merge/72497
<charlie-tca> Then pitti asked if I could upload it?
<micahg> madnick: no, I haven't looked at the installer at all
<madnick> okay
<madnick> ill do an attempt in #ubuntu-devel :) then i have to go
<micahg> charlie-tca: I don't think I have access to that either...you need a CD team member
<charlie-tca> so, who do I have to go to?
<charlie-tca> cjwatson or ev?
<micahg> charlie-tca: most of the people in -release can do it
<charlie-tca> okay
<micahg> charlie-tca: maybe ask slangasek since he's driving this rounf
<micahg> *round
<charlie-tca> okay
<charlie-tca> knome: We are going to get the logo in, at least everything seems to point that way.
<knome> charlie-tca, yeah, i already talked to cjwatson
<charlie-tca> Wish you would talk to me, because he ain't really doing it
<charlie-tca> That would have been good to know, though
<charlie-tca> However, even with a lack of all information, I got it in, and it will be in beta1
<madnick> charlie-tca: it is infact really wierd that you dont get a graphical prompt
<madnick> I looked at casper now
<madnick> And it sends a message
<madnick> not a ask-question, so it should work
<charlie-tca> should is good, but it does not, in reality, work
<madnick> do you get a blank screen? or is the plymouth animation going?
<charlie-tca> I get a black screen with some text on it, and the slider bar only
<madnick> That would certainly explain it
<charlie-tca> Oh
<madnick> That is really outside of the plymouth domain unfortunetly
<madnick> Im not sure how one would go about that
<charlie-tca> I see
<madnick> On the bright side, it shouldnt happen :) And it happens for my labmachine aswell (1 out of 10 times) 
<charlie-tca> heh, here it is 10 out of 10
<madnick> Ill ask around
<astraljava> Hey guys, was a little busy with studio stuff this evening. I'll try to test the QA image tomorrow at work, so I can contribute for that one.
<astraljava> I'm gonna head to bed now.
<Unit193> Good night
<charlie-tca> no problem. They are re-spinning all the images again, anyway
<astraljava> Oh okay, so it's actually a good thing, then. See ya tomorrow, then. :)
#xubuntu-devel 2011-08-31
<ScottL> charlie-tca, do you know who worked up your lightdm settings?
<charlie-tca> ScottL: It was madnick
<charlie-tca> madnick: ScottL is the ubuntustudio project lead.
<madnick> no, he probably means the xubuntu-default-settings
<charlie-tca> and that would be mr_pouit then
<charlie-tca> It's about 04:15AM his time, so he won't be around for a couple of hours yet
<madnick> hehe, same here :)
<madnick> charlie-tca: btw, i asked around about the plymouth thing, why it becomes a black screen with only the animated spirte visible
<charlie-tca> Oh, good
<charlie-tca> anything interesting, or is it my hardware?
<madnick> i got no direct answer, but it is possibly that plymouth screen becomes reset, and only the animation that is blitted on each iteration keeps going
<madnick> Since its redrawn "on top"
<charlie-tca> so, basically, they don't know
<madnick> yeah
<charlie-tca> Thanks for asking
<madnick> I will keep investigating
<charlie-tca> Wish you could get some real answers, but there may not be one, too.
<madnick> If this happens regulary, and its not aborted by some error
<madnick> a fix would be to redraw on every update, or every 10th or similar
<madnick> Thats what comes to mind
<charlie-tca> Is there a debug thing for it, so I could try and pull some logs?
<madnick> Its called n times per second
<madnick> charlie-tca: well, i know plymouth debug thing needs you to manually set the debug file
<madnick> plymouthd --debug --debug-file=/home/madnick/plymouth-debug-out
<charlie-tca> Is it something I could do from the live desktop?
<madnick> needs to be called, at invoke
<madnick> Depends on how plymouthd is invoked
<charlie-tca> If I do that before hitting restart, it should catch it, maybe.
<madnick> let me check my live cd
<charlie-tca> It's worth trying, anyway. I can ssh into the computer and try to get the log before I hit enter after the cd ejects
<madnick> Unless it shuts down ssh before it displays plymouth
<charlie-tca> heh, I know ways to make force it
<charlie-tca> If I can get logs of a failed boot before it hits the desktop, I can make it give me this one
<charlie-tca> I will work on it tomorrow. I can't see good this late (for me)
<madnick> okay
<madnick> ill investigate further 
<charlie-tca> If it writes a log, I will find a way to get it
<charlie-tca> Get some rest, if you need it. I will dig into it tomorrow and get a log if it is possible.
<madnick> okay :)
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<charlie-tca> new images again this morning to test for beta1
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: do we have to worry about the failed to builds this morning?
<charlie-tca> abiword worked from a oneiric 64 live session
<charlie-tca> and I did not get any crashes in live session today
<charlie-tca> New logo is in the menus today
<mr_pouit> I don't know, having so many broken packages usually means it was a transient issue in a lib package, so probably images were rebuilt later
<charlie-tca> Okay, thanks
<charlie-tca> Good, because we do have images, even though I also see a couple of messages that they failed to build
<charlie-tca> They must have been watching today and re-built them when they failed
<charlie-tca> Auto-login to installed system fails
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: I don't see any surprises on these images 
<charlie-tca> spoke too soon
<charlie-tca> lvm encrypted just failed to complete
<charlie-tca> Aug 31 14:29:58 in-target: The following information may help to resolve the situation:
<charlie-tca> Aug 31 14:29:58 in-target: 
<charlie-tca> Aug 31 14:29:58 in-target: The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<charlie-tca> Aug 31 14:29:58 in-target:  libabiword-2.8 : Depends: libwv-1.2-3 (>= 1.2.4) but it is not installable
<charlie-tca> Aug 31 14:29:58 in-target:  system-tools-backends : Depends: libnet-dbus-perl but it is not installable
<charlie-tca> Aug 31 14:29:58 in-target:  xubuntu-desktop : Depends: tango-icon-theme-common but it is not installable
<charlie-tca> Aug 31 14:29:58 in-target:                    Recommends: indicator-application-gtk2 but it is not installable
<charlie-tca> bug 838136
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 838136 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "xubuntu amd64 oneiric beta 1 candidate fails to install due to broken dependency in abiword" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/838136
<charlie-tca> both alternate images fail
<micahg> \o/
<micahg> charlie-tca: unfortunately, I'm in the middle of something and can't stop for another few hours
<charlie-tca> notified -release; will use yesterdays images if they fix them quickly
<charlie-tca> first attempt to fix - kick a respin
<charlie-tca> reason for errors: UNKNOWN
<charlie-tca> new image for alternate published; syncing now
<charlie-tca> madnick: I know part of what is happening now
<charlie-tca> the shutdown process is staying on TTY7 for some reason, instead of swithching back to the one that it should (probably TTY6?)
<madnick> hm okay
<madnick> So it does reset
<charlie-tca> it just switched for me and I saw the message 
<madnick> Okay, so we do not need a fix for plymouth?
<charlie-tca> I don't think so, I think caspar is messing up
<madnick> But this is replicatable every time for you?
<madnick> I think it would be kinda sad if people did not know when to press enter
<charlie-tca> I don't yet. I have only seen the "hit enter to continue" once in weeks
<charlie-tca> I will release note it, just in case
<charlie-tca> when the throbber stops moving, and the cd ejects, remove the cd and hit enter on the keyboard to continue
<madnick> :)
<charlie-tca> latest alternate re-spin worked! alternate 64 installed
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: I think we are in good shape for the beta1 images
<mr_pouit> nice
<charlie-tca> I will try not to let them respin again, now
<mr_pouit> I couldn't reproduce the failure above (abiword & co)
<charlie-tca> Maybe you missed the 20110831 image
<mr_pouit> maybe an archive glitch (because libwv-1.2-3 is still missing from gb.archive.ubuntu.com)
<charlie-tca> It only happened with the one image, and it seemed to be a server error
<cody-somerville> https://chinstrap.canonical.com/~cody-somerville/worst-error-message-ever.png <-- face palm
<micahg> cody-somerville: that's an internal only link...
<cody-somerville> oops
<micahg> cody-somerville: but interesting anyways :)
<cody-somerville> http://people.canonical.com/~cody-somerville/worst-error-message-ever.png <-- public link
<charlie-tca> lol
<charlie-tca> very informative, isn't it
<scott-work> mr_pouit:  ping
<pleia2> knome: I think we tell canonical that the plugin writer doesn't want to maintain it in LP so creating a full project for it won't really work, and ask if we can just create a separate branch in xubuntu-website-wordpress
<mr_pouit> scott-work: pong
<charlie-tca> OMG! I got a plymouth splash screen without the cd
<scott-work> mr_pouit: have you updated teh lightdm package for xubuntu?  specifically, did you add any wallpaper or background to it?
<madnick> iirc there was something about that, needed to fork the gtk-example-greeter
<madnick> But I submitted the files
<mr_pouit> scott-work: no, it's either what madnick wrote, or a dpkg-divert of the greeter config file
<mr_pouit> tbh, both solutions suck
<scott-work> lol
<scott-work> as long as it works, ya know?
<scott-work> madnick: do you remember the package name or the code branch so i can look at it and hopefully knock something up for ubuntu studio?
<madnick> scott-work: its not modified, we postponed the new greeter to o+1
<madnick> just themed
<madnick> 1 sec
<madnick> http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/lightdm-gtk-greeter-changes.tar.gz
<charlie-tca> Are we holding the theme file for after beta1?
<mr_pouit> yeah, I'll work on it after the beta
<charlie-tca> okay
 * charlie-tca noticed the blue or pink backgrounds are still there :)
<madnick> scott-work: in that, it adds icons in the glade file
<mr_pouit> (I think I'll go for the dpkg-divert solution, so madnick^W we don't have to maintain a fork of lightdm-gtk-greeter)
<madnick> :>
<micahg> mr_pouit: so, we're hacking again?
<mr_pouit> I guess ;>
<micahg> mr_pouit: heh, I guess we should try to get a real solution for the LTS
<charlie-tca> We are going to. Madnick has a lightdm theme package, he just can't get the --testmode to work right
<scott-work> madnick: i'm sorry but i am ignorant, can you explain the differences between themeing and modifying the package?
<madnick> scott-work: what i refer to as themeing is changing the designated wallpaper, fonts, and perhaps the gtk theme
<madnick> Which is nearly all I did for this, i also modifided the glade file a bit
<scott-work> madnick: which is similar in process to updating the usplash and/or plymouth themes, correct?
<scott-work> you copy a file to the right place, update initrmfs
<madnick> I acctually replaced /usr/sbin gtk-example-greeter :P
<madnick> But I guess
 * scott-work can't open the tarball from his work computer (windows) :(
<madnick> oh
<scott-work> madnick: okay...i can understand that
<scott-work> madnick: and this would be different than actually creating a new package for xubuntu based on the vanilla ubuntu lightdm package and putting your stuff in there
<scott-work> that wouldn't be considerd a "hack" then?
<madnick> Not sure, tbh I never heard of vanilla ubuntu theme, but I guess if that greeter uses the same config file it would not be that different
<scott-work> i'm not judging or trying to be pedenatic about language but i want to make sure that i understand your intent and nomenclature
<mr_pouit> the config file location is hardcoded at build time to /etc/lightdm/lightdm-gtk-greeter.conf iirc
<micahg> scott-work: get 7-zip
<mr_pouit> (and it's shipped as a conffile)
<scott-work> micahg:  IT doesn't really want that on the machine since it's unnecessary for work :(
<madnick> scott-work: is this vanilla ubuntu's greeter:
<madnick> http://cache.techie-buzz.com/images/ricky/lightdm-login_screen.png
<mr_pouit> which means you can't really change it on the fly in a postinst, because it would cause unnecessary prompts on upgrades (note that edubuntu does that though)
<madnick> Oh sorry, I thought vanilla meant a greeter ;)
<scott-work> madnick: wow, that is actually very slick looking :)
<madnick> I am not familiar with the english terms
<mr_pouit> but ubuntu uses the unity greeter
<madnick> that well, for "plain" :P
<madnick> scott-work: yes, you can modify teh unity greeter
<scott-work> madnick: lol, sorry for the confusion, i meant "vanilla" as "ubuntu"
<scott-work> or non-derivative 
<madnick> Before I started on then new greeter
<madnick> I did modify the Unityh greeter
<madnick> Everything is hardcoded
<scott-work> eh, is the unity greeter based on lightdm?
<madnick> Yes
<madnick> http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/labmachine.jpg
<madnick> That was what I did
<mr_pouit> (they all use the lightdm interface)
<charlie-tca> yeah, they took an application written specifically to be easy to modify, and made it as difficult for everyone to change as possible
<scott-work> charlie-tca: LOL, that figures
#xubuntu-devel 2011-09-01
<charlie-tca> One more re-spin of the Beta1 candidates tonight. There is a fix to parted to make it work on Mac systems
<charlie-tca> release notes added to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricOcelot/TechnicalOverview
<charlie-tca> Good night
<charlie-tca> Unit193: someone needs to test the Lubuntu alternate images today
<charlie-tca> images dated 0901 are working. These will be published for the Beta1 release
<charlie-tca> Thanks go to everyone involved for making this milestone work!
<charlie-tca> pleia2: release news - http://2tu.us/3h8b
<charlie-tca> Beta1 freeze lifted now
<micahg> is it warmer in here? :P
<Unit193> charlie-tca: We/they had a tester called Lance, but I'll add that to Xubuntu ones
<charlie-tca> jibel ran them, so they are done. Images are being published as soon as the hit the mirrors today
<Unit193> jibel is someone on the release team?
<pleia2> charlie-tca: ready to be posted?
<charlie-tca> jibel is the main testing guy for QA
<charlie-tca> pleia2: yes, it should be ready
<charlie-tca> release is not official yet, though
<charlie-tca> Probably two more hours to make it official, testing is done, waiting for mirrors, I think
<charlie-tca> I cheated and put the release notes in the news thing this time
<pleia2> ok, I've htmlized it, I'll post whenever we're ready
<Unit193> Seems to be missing a few tests, or am I reading it wrong?
<charlie-tca> yes, it is missing some
 * Unit193 picks alt entire, easy as 1, 2, 3
<charlie-tca> Since most of the tests on yesterdays images, today's testing is spotty
<charlie-tca> There was a late fix to partitioning that applied to all images, to allow those who install to a mac would not corrupt the drives
<Unit193> Well, I'm syncing both (or all 4 if you really want to know)
<charlie-tca> That's good. I ran out of energy to keep testing them today
<charlie-tca> It was a bit frustrating, when, at 8:00 PM local time, I found every image would be re-built again, and please try to have them tested as soon as they get done... :(
<charlie-tca> I almost did not allow them to build the xubuntu images
<charlie-tca> They agreed spot testing would be okay today
<Unit193> I was going to do one or two yesterday, but computer that can handle it (mostly) crashed
<charlie-tca> I did all of them yesterday, and the day before, and the day before that, too
<charlie-tca> But, that too is just part of being the tester for Xubuntu :)
<Unit193> Well, I try, but I can only run one at a time
<charlie-tca> heh, yeah, I run two computers steady just to test those images
<charlie-tca> My connection won't allow more than that now
<charlie-tca> It was a lot easier when I could run 4 hardware machines, and 4 VBox machines at one time
<charlie-tca> jarnos: does any operating system use different icons for mounted vs unmounted drives?
<Unit193> Another issue, Vbox killed the computer on opening it again
<charlie-tca> really?
<Unit193> Second time, I'll try it again, but in a different way
<Unit193> Third time. I could try it on this P4 though
<charlie-tca> sounds like you made VBox angry?
<Unit193> Yeah, this isn't good as it doesn't even OPEN
<Unit193> Going to close everything out on this computer so it might be able to handle VBox
<jarnos> charlie-tca, I don't know. Thunar does, but the difference is not big enough, IMO.
<jarnos> charlie-tca, I want to know by glance, if my removable drive is mounted or not. Actually a drive is not (software) mounted, but partitions in the drive may be.
<astraljava> Hey guys, sorry I've been busy with Studio stuff for the past few days. Anything urgent needs to be done this way?
<charlie-tca> Nope, nothing urgent today
<charlie-tca> just waiting for the milestone to release now
<astraljava> Okay, sounds good.
<charlie-tca> Going cut the "too long already" grass now
<charlie-tca> Can anyone try the oem or free-software installs using the images dated today?
<plantoschka> beta1 out yet?
<charlie-tca> not yet
<charlie-tca> couple of hours yet
<micahg> wow, cutting it close...
<charlie-tca> heh, lucky to get it in today
<plantoschka> :)
<charlie-tca> Beta1 released; pleia2
<charlie-tca> pleia2: can you post the news article now?
* ChanServ changed the topic of #xubuntu-devel to: Xubuntu Development | Oneiric Ocelot Feature Freeze in effect | #xubuntu for support | Schedule: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricReleaseSchedule | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu | Xubuntu Community meeting 2011-09-05 at 19:00 UTC | Oneiric Ocelot images at http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/
<pleia2> charlie-tca: working on now :)
<pleia2> http://xubuntu.org/node/49
<charlie-tca> Thank you!
<charlie-tca> This one took a lot of effort on everyone's part to actually get out. 
<charlie-tca> knome: Thanks for the new logo. It is on the beta1 cd's
<knome> np
<pleia2> http://news.softpedia.com/news/Ubuntu-11-10-Beta-1-219855.shtml
<pleia2> "and a very nice new Plymouth boot splash screen" :D
<charlie-tca> w00t! 
<charlie-tca> That's pretty neat
<charlie-tca> I was tired when I wrote the release notes. They seem a bit wordy still, but maybe they will generate excitement, too.
<raevol> woo saw the xubuntu beta 1 announcement on planet ubuntu :)
<raevol> oh, old news i see -_-
<charlie-tca> hm, I have to run my updates tonight for oneiric on this computer. I will be back after it decides to boot again :)
<charlie-tca> raevol: it is good to know someone read it!
<raevol> :D
<Olbi> thx for changes, creating news on my portal :D
<charlie-tca> ;)
#xubuntu-devel 2011-09-02
<micahg> has anyone tested blueman in xubuntu oneiric?
<ScottL> what is blueman (obviously i haven't tested it)
<charlie-tca> micahg: far as I know, no one has tested blueman because none of us have anything that uses bluetooth
<GridCube> lol
<GridCube> charlie-tca, :D good night mister
<charlie-tca> Hello, GridCube 
<GridCube> tomorrow i think i can make some tests
<charlie-tca> That would be great!
<charlie-tca> We can use as many people testing as are able to test.
<GridCube> :)
<charlie-tca> Three or four days of installs can make you miss a lot of stuff
<GridCube> I'm also learning how to make webformularies to save into mysql databases XD
<GridCube> so in a couple of months my project will be on alpha :P
<GridCube> well good night mister charlie-tca :)
<micahg> ugh, will have to reply to him tomorrow
<Unit193> Err... That softpedia says "Mousepad replaced Leafpad"
<Unit193> pleia2: You done messed up ;)  Site says "Xubuntu has replaced gmd with lightdm" where it should say "Xubuntu has replaced GDM (or gdm) with (L)light(DM)dm"
<raevol> Unit193: apologies if i am missing some sort of joke, but see: http://xubuntu.org/node/49
<raevol> oh i see what you are saying about softpedia
<Unit193> raevol: That's what I was checking
<raevol> man i am always 2 steps behind here :P
<Unit193> Na, I'm about the same. Second comment make sense?
<raevol> are you correcting the capitalization?
<Unit193> Not just that, gmd isn't anything afaik
<Unit193> !info gmd
<ubottu> Package gmd does not exist in natty
<raevol> oooh
<raevol> didn't catch that
<raevol> Gnome Manager Display
<raevol> hur hur
<Unit193> It's a quick typo, but I think she be sleeping now :/
<Unit193> That's about the first thing I noticed on screen, and my grammar is not the best...
<raevol> i'm bad at cathing typos unless they're the really common kind
<raevol> see, catching
<Unit193> pleia2: You also need to link to the Beta1 download page, not A2 ;) ( http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/11.10/beta-1/ )
<Unit193> Dang I need to get this VBox working again...
<astraljava> What's it not doing?
<pleia2> Unit193: I didn't write the release announcement, I just published it ;)
<pleia2> but fixed
<Olbi> hello
<Olbi> I have seen that Xubuntu 11.04 is downloading with update some components of Unity which isn't needed. Could we eliminate that form system? 
<astraljava> Olbi: What does "with update" mean=
<astraljava> = == ?
<Olbi> astraljava: today I had update thinderbird with unity integration, so strange :P
<astraljava> Olbi: Xubuntu doesn't control individual packages, so if there's a bogus dependency, we can't do anything about it.
<astraljava> Then it's a matter of filing bugs against that package, for removing dependencies that aren't needed exactly.
<astraljava> On the other hand, if the integration package doesn't depend on unity, then what does it matter?
<astraljava> It's just one cruft package.
<astraljava> I think anyone can live with that.
<Olbi> I only want know if there arent any other unnecessary packages :P
<astraljava> Olbi: There's the issue with direct dependencies, and recommends. I think nowadays package managers install recommends by default, so for sure there will be unnecessary packages, for some.
<Unit193> pleia2: You're the website person so I contacted you...
<Unit193> astraljava: Crashes the computer when I try to open VBox
<pleia2> knome: green light from stephanie for the splitting into different branches for theme and plugin
<Unit193> Thanks for fixing the post :D
<GridCube> so tests need to be updated to the test tracker or jus to the spreadsheet
<GridCube> ?
<GridCube> oh boy more than half of the image has changed since monday
<Olbi|2> what is on 4 september? It is at pink color http://2tu.us/3dmh
<GridCube> don't know
<astraljava> Probably just the last day initialized so far. It's not a critical date for release schedule, anyhoo.
<Olbi> 22 september is last beta :P
<Olbi> maybe some1 do calendar for it?:P
<Olbi> super, my xubuntu 64 bit beta1 is installing too long from LiveCD :P
<astraljava> What does 'too long' mean?
<GridCube> there's some troll on #xubuntu
<GridCube> !report
<GridCube> say that i want to propose an image to be added to the backdrop folder, what kind of propieties it should have? like licences and such?
#xubuntu-devel 2011-09-03
<GridCube> oh... it appears that its pretty hard to get an image included on the backdrop folders according to last year lengthy discussion of charlie on ubuntu-artwork
<knome> pleia2, yeah i noticed the mail
<knome> pleia2, i'll sort that out tomorrow, if you haven't done it by then
 * knome just came home from bar and doesn't feel so productive
<pleia2> knome: no problem, I'm at the airport and will be off visiting family all weekend (3 day weekend in the states here, woo)
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<GridCube> good:)
#xubuntu-devel 2011-09-04
<raevol> global jamming in san diego, torrenting beta1 cd atm
<raevol> any thoughts on using PCManFM doe xubuntu instead of thunar? just curious if it's been suggested
<raevol> doe means on
<raevol> how did i even do that...
<micahg> raevol: no, we're an Xfce based distro, so unless Thunar becomes horribly broken, we'd stick with that
<raevol> hmm, i'm going to switch to it until oeneric, because of the issue i've been having with it
<micahg> raevol: what issue is that?
<raevol> the first time i run it after booting it takes up to 2 minutes to launch, and usually launches 2 instances
<micahg> raevol: BTW, you're free to install whatever software you like on your machine, as I'm sure you know
<raevol> yup, that's why i just switched my FM, i just love xubuntu, so i figured i'd suggest it if it hadn't been suggested before
<micahg> raevol: sounds like a possibly corrupted session that was saved
<raevol> so i don't have thunar saved in my session, does thunar have its own session management?
<raevol> this is when i manually launch thunar after booting
<micahg> oh, hmm
<raevol> pcmanfm
<micahg> idk, I haven't dug into the xfce internals yet, I'm just a starting xubuntu-dev :)
<raevol> woop wrong window
<raevol> well, if i am still seeing the issue after oeneric i'll be back here to whine some more :) wish 11.04 would get the latest thunar updated in it though
<micahg> raevol: generally, we don't update stable releases except with targetted bug fixes due to the risk of regression and interaction with other pieces of the software stack
<raevol> makes sense
<raevol> am i the only one seeing this issue then?
<micahg> raevol: idk, I've been on oneiric for xubuntu since a couple weeks after release, maybe ask in #xubuntu?, our main QA person is offline at the moment, we have a community meeting Monday at 19:00 UTC, you're welcome to attend
<raevol> i'll try to make it, where are the community meetings held?
<micahg> raevol: right ehre
<micahg> *here
<raevol> ok cool
<raevol> i'll be at work at that time, but i have my work computer set up to be idling here when i am there :)
<Unit193> Xfce doesn't let you fully switch to PCManFM, just to let you know
<raevol> what's going to break?
<Unit193> If you put a link on the desktop for example, it'll still open in thunar
<raevol> hmm, don't have any of those
<raevol> it's just temporary though, so no worries, sorry for spamming up -devel
<GridCube> today is meeting day?
<GridCube> or the minutes are just old?
<GridCube> good evening charlie-tca 
<GridCube> today is community meeting?
<charlie-tca> Good evening
<charlie-tca> nope
<charlie-tca> tomorrow this week
<charlie-tca> Monday at 19:00 UTC
<GridCube> oh
<GridCube> update community meeting minutes please :P
<GridCube> :/ there is a known bug for compiz, people can't use it on 11.04, because emerald is broken
<GridCube> not only on xubuntu, but in ubuntu too
<GridCube> so people is having even more problems whit it and xubuntu :(
<charlie-tca> okay, I will update the agenda today
<charlie-tca> compiz is not needed for xubuntu, they should use the built in compositor. If they really want Unity, they should stay with Ubuntu
<GridCube> unity =/= compiz
<charlie-tca> emerald has not been in development for a long time already
<GridCube> i don't know 
<charlie-tca> Yes, unity means using compiz, and the work on compiz is designed now to enhance unity
<GridCube> oh i see
<GridCube> well people want to use compiz whit xubuntu
<charlie-tca> yes, and then they complain about how slow it is, or how bad the video is, etc
<GridCube> :P
<GridCube> well you take the bad whit the good (or however its said on engresh)
<charlie-tca> NO, they only want the good, and want help getting it to work the way they want it to
<charlie-tca> A good example right there... (#xubuntu)
<GridCube> charlie-tca, im doing today's test
<charlie-tca> Great!
<GridCube> want me to do an encrypted or standard install?
<charlie-tca> either one is fine
<astraljava> Hey gang, who's doing what? I can do two tests tonight still.
<GridCube> im doing alternate full
<GridCube> auto resize
<astraljava> Okay, I'll use desktop, then.
 * micahg is busy with other things...DigiNotar and such
<olbi> hello
<olbi> yesterday I had one-conf error, but it was while I was using Ubuntu Software Center
<charlie-tca> olbi: known bug
<charlie-tca> a fix is in progress
<GridCube> yay! if i put the wrong password on lightdm it just stays like that all in purple
<charlie-tca> you get purple?
<GridCube> oh... rite it was just taking a lot of time
<GridCube> pink/purple
<charlie-tca> mine are blue or pink
 * charlie-tca is sure it is definitely pink, no mistaking it for purple
<GridCube> weeell pink
<charlie-tca> might depend on your monitor, too
<astraljava> ubiquity crashing for others on desktop installs?
<astraljava> Keeps on installing, though.
<astraljava> Still the extra ; in the plymouth stuff, it seems.
<astraljava> Oh the pink! The pink!
<GridCube> not a single crash, no bluetooth yet, rebooting works, update works, pidgin works(?)
<GridCube> sheet updated
<astraljava> Oh, this was while installing.
<astraljava> Apparently, when you think about it, you don't use ubiquity at other times. ;p
<GridCube> not knowing what ubiquity is i concur
<astraljava> It's the piece that does the live installer stuff.
<GridCube> oh
<GridCube> :) then you dont need it later XD
<astraljava> Yep. :)
<astraljava> Oops. No divider for installing alongside of an existing system.
<charlie-tca> It has a minimum space requirement, if the existing partition is smaller than the minimum, it won't let you do it.
<charlie-tca> Although, you may still be able to do a manual partitioning and install
<astraljava> charlie-tca: Oh? That's not the auto-resize thingie?
<charlie-tca> yup
<charlie-tca> If the minimum size of the existing partition is too small, autosize will not work
<charlie-tca> sounds like a bug
<astraljava> It's an 80GB hard disk with only one entire-disk installation prior to this.
<astraljava> Uh oh. Now ubiquity crashed on me again, and when I tried to report the problem, I was notified I have an obsolete version of upstart.
<astraljava> Possibly the issue I'm seeing is collateral?
<astraljava> LP bug 841365
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 841365 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "No divider for space allocation in Xubuntu oneiric "alongside" installation" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/841365
<charlie-tca> Thanks
<astraljava> Am I using the wrong sheet for tracking the testing? I'm not seeing GridCube's report for today.
<astraljava> http://tinyurl.com/3l9knhm
<astraljava> Hmm... what's this pad.lv thingie?
<astraljava> Coolness.
<knome> hey astraljava 
<astraljava> Moikka Pasi. :)
<knome> woo, finnish
<knome> :P
 * knome needs to choose a new ringtone since the nokia tune is embarrassing
<astraljava> A nokia whatever is embarrassing these days. :)
<knome> heh
<knome> as long as i can call and send sms's...
<astraljava> ...you could be using any friggin' phone. Exactly. :D
<knome> true too
<knome> but if i'd buy something else, that'd need to be android, and then i'd want a HTC, and if i'd buy a HTC, then it would need to be some model that is >400e
<knome> buying a very basic nokia is cheaper than that
<astraljava> Yep, and I must admit, in some cases, I'm pretty disappointed with the androids.
<knome> yep, that is one of the most biggest things that's stopping me from buying an android
<astraljava> And if I'm truly honest, I'd have wanted the N9, had it had a physical qwerty.
<knome> heh
<knome> oh, i have one more requirement for a phone
<knome> it must not be iphone
<astraljava> ^5
<knome> comparing to that, nokia is fine
<knome> i have 2730 classic
<knome> and even that is a bit too "modern" for me, ironically
<astraljava> I like to play with them, but admittedly I hardly ever utilize their full potential.
<charlie-tca> astraljava: pad.lv is a shortcut to https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/???
<charlie-tca> instead, you can use http://pad.lv/???
<charlie-tca> upstart out of date should not affect the partitioner
<astraljava> charlie-tca: Yup, found out about it, and updated the sheet as well.
<astraljava> charlie-tca: Well, mentioned it in there anyhow. If I have time in the coming days, I'll look into the logs more deeply.
<charlie-tca> okay
<micahg> hi charlie-tca 
<charlie-tca> Hello, micahg 
<micahg> mr_pouit: I'm a little busy this week, but will try to get some of the build hardening just done in Debian into oneiric before release
<micahg> charlie-tca: I had something to tell you but I can't remember
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: we do not have any way to add network printers in oneiric
 * micahg was wondering why his printer didn't work
<charlie-tca> They changed the thing in Settings Manager -> Printing, and you get to choose whether to use cups or bsd type printers, but you can not add any printer, that I can find.
<charlie-tca> I don't think you can even add a local printer now
#xubuntu-devel 2012-08-27
<ochosi> yay, pushed the lightdm theming
<ochosi> time to go to sleep
<knome> :)
<knome> good night, and thanks
<knome> we rock
<ochosi> yes we do :)
<knome> definitely!
 * knome goes to bed too
<knome> pleia2, have a nice evening!
<ochosi> night y'all!
<knome> nighty night
<pleia2> good night ochosi and knome :)
<Unit193> Good night.
<SkippersBoss> every ones going ??
<pleia2> only a little after 5PM here, so I'm still around ;)
<SkippersBoss> :-)
<SkippersBoss> yes can't get rid of you <grin>
<SkippersBoss> Did you find a sleeping parter ?? 
<SkippersBoss> for the zoo thet is
<pleia2> haha, not yet, I'll ask again during the week
<pleia2> no one reads twitter on weekends :)
<SkippersBoss> That might b a good thing :-)
<SkippersBoss> i ve done my bit for the day/nite. Enjoy ur evening. Tomorrow I hope to do a doc for Xfburn
<pleia2> :D
<pleia2> ok, compiz doc reviewed, it's fine
<pleia2> also, gosh, I don't love the cube :)
<SkippersBoss> :-)
<SkippersBoss> nite nite
<pleia2> night
<pjotr> Hello, There appears to be a memory leakage bug in gtk-xfce-engine, causing certain panel plugins to eat huge amounts of memory. Upstream has patched gtk-xfce-engine and scheduled a bugfix release: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8521
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 8521 in General "gtk-xfce-engine triggers leaks in panel plugins using cairo drawing or progressbars" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<pjotr> Will this bugfix release eventually land in Xubuntu 12.04 as well?
<fmolinero> n55
<smartboyhw> fmolinero: What?
<knome> shiny new ubuntu qa logo! http://temp.knome.fi/ubuntuqa/qa-final.svg
<smartboyhw> Wow.
<smartboyhw> Thanks knome.
<knome> for what?
<smartboyhw> For providing the new logo:)
<smartboyhw> I don't even know about that:)
<knome> well, that was "published" now.
<knome> had some PM's with balloons earlier
<smartboyhw> knome: I just did too:)
<fmolinero> Hi
<fmolinero> a question...
<fmolinero> I tried to sync Xubuntu desktop Qantal ISO daily
<fmolinero> but I only got 2012.08.22
<fmolinero> is it correct
<fmolinero> or it is my error?
<smartboyhw> Well, the latest build IS 20120822
<fmolinero> OK
<fmolinero> thanks
<pleia2> fmolinero: if you look at the top of http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/ you'll want to read the "Notice board" message, they've been trying to update it when there are issues, right now it says that some builds aren't happening :)
<smartboyhw> :)
<fmolinero> Ok
<knome> pleia2, i'm going to look at updating the installer slideshow in a shilw
<knome> *while...
<fmolinero> it's hapend to me because I do not read the little words :-(
<knome> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubiquity-slideshow/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/html/revision/482
<knome> \o/
<knome> the simple most useful commit to the branch ever
<knome> i always hated that feature missing
<bluesabre> knome, that sounds particularly handy!
<knome> mmhmm
<knome> also created a launcher for it
<knome> mmh
<knome> devilspie script
<knome> doesn't open in an awkward place
<knome> i suppose i'm ready to start working on it :)
<knome> pleia2, hai. the drupal5 branch is moved under the new product now
<knome> pleia2, should send a message to LP admins to delete the old product to be replaced with the new
<knome> pleia2, will see if there is any bugs for the old product
<knome> no open bugs
<pleia2> knome: yeah
<pleia2> (sorry, my time is limited this week, much work stuff)
<knome> pleia2, np. if you want, you can double-check that we actually have the drupal stuff since you are so attached to it.
<pleia2> lol
<knome> pleia2, with your ack, i will get it done
<pleia2> they were quite strict about sticking to the branch, so I'm quite sure the one that is there is the one we want to keep as an archive
<knome> huh?
<pleia2> oh, I see what you mean
<knome> :)
<pleia2> yeah that's the right one
<pleia2> go for it
<knome> ok, good
<knome> pleia2, https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/206964
 * pleia2 subscribes
<knome> :)
 * pleia2 works with czajkowski on it
<knome> goood
<knome> :)
<pleia2> and done \o/
<knome> woot
<knome> :)
<knome> sicj
<knome> sick too
<knome> pleia2, here comes: http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/quantal_blueprints/doclooks-update.png
<knome> it's still really rough, but it's working with the actual docs
<pleia2> that's nice
<knome> ta
<knome> though we really should get hold of somebody who understands docbook
<knome> and building the docs better, too
<pleia2> well, I am hoping the people who signed up to do the docbook work would know, maybe an email directly to them?
<knome> yeah, maybe
<knome> looking at their karma, i'm not sure if they can
<knome> pleia2, do you have any free time today?
<micahg> you can always bribe j1mc to come back
<knome> micahg, we have started that progress actually... >:]
<knome> do we know anybody from the docs committers?
<micahg> knome: based on https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2012-August/035675.html, what's our use case for the alternates?
#xubuntu-devel 2012-08-28
<pleia2> LVM and RAID are the reason I use the alt, but 95% of the people I recommend it to use it because the graphical one won't load
<knome> micahg, if having cryptsetup means the user will be able to enrypt anything, then i suppose very slim. i've been in favor of dropping alt's too, but pleia2, Unit193 and others have raised concerns; based on those and my limited knowledge of all the use cases alt could have, i haven't made a final decision yet, but decided to leave it as it is
<pleia2> will server still have an alt? Not sure how you'd do an install over ssh with ubiquity
<micahg> yeah, I think so
<micahg> but server might not be i386
<micahg> there's always netboot
<knome> and mini
<knome> which i have been proposing for the alternative for alternate
<knome> this would also mean less effort needed for testing.
<pleia2> I'm also a grumpy old debian sysadmin so I <3 the d-i
<knome> pleia2, your marketing target audience didn't specify an age group
<pleia2> *
<knome> ;)
<knome> pleia2, how often do you recommend the alt to people since the graphical installer isn't loading?
 * micahg would suggest testing early and often to get the GUI installer working
<knome> yes; alternate images are partly dragging the testing too
<pleia2> I don't have metrics to give a useful answer to that, and I admit that I don't do any debugging when it "doesn't work" since recommending the alt is usually the right answer
<pleia2> at least, it's the much easier one with a non-technical user
<knome> since we don't have non-PAE support in 12.10-> either, doesn't that already rule out some of the oldest machines, which are probably the ones that will not run the graphical installer?
<pleia2> true
<knome> and actually pointing people to rather use the mini installer and just do "sudo apt-get install xubuntu-desktop" isn't *too* hard
<pleia2> well, if mini will keep the alternate installer, I guess your solution to tell them to use tat and install xubuntu-desktop is ok
<knome> there is no alt/desktop for mini
<knome> mini is... mini.
<pleia2> ok, if mini will keep the debian installer... :)
<knome> :)
<knome> why wouldn't it?
<knome> it doesn't come with X packages
<knome> !minimal
<ubottu> The Minimal CD image is very small in size, and it downloads most packages from the Internet during installation, allowing you to select only those you want (the installer is like the one on the !Alternate CD). See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/MinimalCD
<pleia2> I don't know, people do crazy things
<knome> Ubuntu 12.04 "Precise Pangolin" Minimal CD 27MB*
<pleia2> they could put ubiquity on the cd and just not install the shiny bits
<knome> lol
<knome> ...
<knome> as if...
<pleia2> I don't actually know how big ubiquity+dependencies are :)
<pleia2> maybe it's secretly small
<knome> haha
<knome> :)
<knome> if we drop the alt, and cryptsetup/LVM/RAID doesn't work for 12.10, how much do we lose?
<knome> it's the release after LTS, this is the place to do things like this
<knome> they will probably get it fixed by next LRS
<knome> *LTS
 * knome knocks wood
<pleia2> loss of LVM would be :(
<pleia2> I use it a lot
<micahg> LVM supposedly works, why not try it now
<knome> LVM should work
<pleia2> okie
<GridCube> I think that the big topic here is what do WE want, do we want to be a distribution aimed to old specs hardware, or we aim to be a full equiped alternative, standard paradigmatic, distribution aimed to all those who dislike the "unity path"
<GridCube> alternate disks are fine, but i've found using them on newer machines is useless
<Unit193> I have a 500MHz, 512M, 10G comp that has support for PAE, it doesn't count out all ones that don't take Ubiquity as well.
<knome> supporting older hardware is fine, but with not having a kernel supporting non-PAE already means we will lose some userbase
<knome> Unit193, but does it work with the graphical installer?
<GridCube> knome, yes, thats where the decision has to come
<pleia2> closer to the latter according to our strategy document (but I don't agree we're "aimed to all those who dislike the "unity path"")
<knome> so, even if we had the alternate disks, there's no way to support those machins with no PAE
<GridCube> My semi-modern netbook wont recognize the wireless network card on alternate, but it does on desktop iso's
<knome> yes, i wrote an article about it too: http://open.knome.fi/2012/08/19/xubuntu-is-not-a-refugee-camp/
<Unit193> Well, if we drop alternate, we have to test mini and install xubuntu-desktop to see if we get the same things.
<pleia2> we dropped our "aimed to old specs hardware" thing a couple years ago ;) I point people to lubuntu
<knome> Unit193, of course, but that's a lot easier than testing two alt images of about 700MB
<pleia2> and alt keeps breaking so then micahg^Wsomeone has to fix it :\
<knome> yeah, will probably keep breaking more after ubuntu drops support
<pleia2> yeah, that's my fear
<knome> unless you meant exactly that
<pleia2> pretty sure it's broken at the moment
<knome> well that goes without saying
<pleia2> it was yesterday anyway
<knome> :)
<GridCube> pleia2, exactly my point, i've been pointing people to lubuntu and even to tinycore if i think it deserves it
<knome> yes, it's not a competition really
<GridCube> I think we should make a point and say, well people, we need to move on.
<GridCube> moving on is not neglecting people with older hardware, there are many other distros pointed to them
<Unit193> knome: Technically, I'm pretty sure mine could get ubiquity to work, but I wouldn't personally bother.
<knome> in the theoretical case that we decided to keep alt...
<knome> 1) alt would break more often, or as much as now, but we would be fixing it ourself
<knome> 2) we would still need to continue testing alt; if we dropped, we could even add tests for mini and those would be easier to run anyway
<Unit193> What are Kubuntu, Lubuntu, and whatever else?
<knome> no idea
<knome> kubuntu probably drops it, if they haven't already
<knome> lubuntu might stick to it
<knome> and i hope they will
<knome> (and not just because that's one more reason to be able to drop alt from xubuntu9
<Unit193> )
<knome> heh
<knome> stgraber raised some concerns over LTSP installability with no alt; does anybody think that's essential for xubuntu? :P
<knome> hey sean
<knome> bluesabre, ?  :)
<micahg> alternate is currently broke due to the mismatching indicator gtk2 stack
<micahg> mr_pouit said he'd upload the replacement stack at some point
 * micahg can't get to it this week
<knome> yes, i talked with him; he asked for help from the lubuntu team too
<bluesabre> knome, what's up?
<knome> bluesabre, as a very possible future xubuntu developer, what do you think of dropping/keeping alternate images? see: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2012-August/035675.html
<bluesabre> Aren't one big benefit of the alternate images that you can install with significantly less ram?  Which kinda benefits xubuntu and lubuntu installation scenarios I would imagine
<knome> probably, but would the system be usable with eg. 256 ram anyway?
<knome> well, anyway; there is always the minimal iso
<knome> install that + run "sudo apt-get install xubuntu-desktop"
<Unit193> Though alternates permit you to have no internet connection.
<knome> except when downloading, but i can see your point
<knome> how common do you think that is?
<bluesabre> I think if we had a page somewhere on the website that showed how to use the minimal iso, it wouldn't be too bad
<knome> bluesabre, we can do that. it's really simple anyway
<bluesabre> And not having the minimal isos would make less work and less testing, so theoretically a better product
<knome> you mean alt
<knome> ? :)
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> alt
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> yes, i agree with that
<GridCube> knome, but there is apt-offline
<Unit193> Another reason to add it. :P
<knome> there's a mention of "aptoncd" on our docs, how useful is that?
<GridCube> people who have to download the iso can download a minimal and the offline for xubuntu-desktop
<GridCube> i know is a pita but...
<GridCube> there are better options for old hw than xubuntu
<GridCube> :/
<knome> not that bad if we have a easy-to-follow tutorial though
<knome> well, not having an internet connection doesn't mean you have bad hardware
<knome> you might be just really isolated
<knome> siberia.
<knome> central africa.
<knome> antarctic.
<Unit193> ...Indiana.
<knome> yeah
<GridCube> sure, but if they get an iso they can get a smaller one and some offline apts
<knome> GridCube, though we can't suggest anything else than the whole xubuntu-desktop
<knome> GridCube, unless we create a xubuntu-minimal metapackage, which doesn't depend on the applications
<knome> eg. will leave abiword, gnumeric, ff, tb, gmb out
<GridCube> again, I think that the point is if we want to *really* adress those people, who have old hardware or not
<GridCube> if they are isolated but they can use the desktop image they will
<knome> right, that's true
<knome> unless they have one of the newer machines that won't support desktop
<knome> but that should be "fixed" by testing ubiquity more
<GridCube> sure, they can also have quantum microprocesors and whatnot, :P we cant make everyone happy, nor we should try to. We should try to make the most consistent product possible, knowing who we target and what we want to achieve
<GridCube> i think that our Strategy Document was clear on that
<Unit193> Bummer if we do drop it. Synaptic and alternate in the same release. :/
<knome> Unit193, apt-get... :)
<GridCube> synaWHA?!
<GridCube> D:
<GridCube> synaptic is leaving?! jockey-gtk is leaving?! D:
<Unit193> Ah, all three in one, thanks GridCube.
<GridCube> its not my fault :(
<GridCube> i like those apps
<bluesabre> quick, let's port them and rebase them on libmate!
<bluesabre> gnome2 forever
<bluesabre> :P
<knome> GridCube, synaptic is going simply because it isn't maintained actively
<GridCube> :|
<GridCube> sad
<Unit193> knome: I understand, just still think it is the best UI, even though it might be better to get rid since it is GTK2 as well.
<knome> Unit193, well yeah, you are of course free to install it, as goes with other apps; i believe many want to use chrome, evolve/claws, other music players ...
<Unit193> Yep, sure am.
<knome> again, quantal is LTS+1
<knome> time to drop old stuff and get along
<micahg> we're stuck with GTK2 until xfce is fully ported
<knome> yeah, that's true
<knome> but that doesn't make synaptic maintained :]
<micahg> mvo keeps updating it :)
<knome> but hasn't he promised not to for a few times? :D
<knome> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2012-August/008393.html
<Sysi> how much RAM is needed to really run ubiquity? in the early days of ubiquity I had to add swap to not have it dying because of too little memory, instalation was awfully slow but still worked
<Sysi> I know many people use alternate because they trust it more than ubiquity, so it would be kinda better to not have crippled alt available
<Sysi> when ubiquity gets proper LVM support, doesn't that give RAID functionality? though as mentioned in that email it's quite easy to setup dmraid after installation
<pleia2> it gives you the ability to pool disks like raid0, but it's not the same
<pleia2> and it's much easier to set up raid in the installer
<Sysi> so it is question of having some functionality (and memory usage)
<Sysi> with 256MB livecd doesn't seem to boot, with 512MB and 64MB graphics memory installs just fine (current daily, now loading language package)
<Sysi> well, it did boot but stuck after loading panels
<elfy> hi mips1911 
<mips1911> hi elfy
<knome> hey elfy. you happen to know anything about docbook?
<elfy> fraid not knome - or I'd have answered your mail :(
<knome> heh, np
<knome> do you know anything about the conventions of ubuntu docs then?
<knome> for example, what does it mean that ~xubuntu-docs is a subteam of ~ubuntu-docs - what does that give us
<elfy> I think that is possibly just the way that LP sets things up 
<elfy> forum membership team is a subteam of ubuntu members as another example
<knome> yeah, but i'm wondering if that gives us some permissions
<elfy> I would think it would allow you to do what you need to do 
<knome> i am sure there are some technical implications
<knome> yes, but what *is* that? :D
<knome> only documentation contributors can push, i think
<elfy> I'd suggest the place to hang about waiting for a real answer would be #ubuntu-doc 
<knome> well yeah, i've asked there and waited, and we've asked the ML
<elfy> :(
<knome> seriously, it seems that if you want to get something done relatively quickly, you need to know somebody from a team
<elfy> they are ever so good at communication ... 
<knome> as anybody
<elfy> I think if you can get hold of mdke you might get somewhere - sorry I can't be of more help
<smartboyhw> knome: I want to ask: Do you opt for removing the alternate images?
<knome> smartboyhw, if you'd follow our mailing list, you would know it's discussed
<smartboyhw> I know. I would opt for NOT having a alternate one, I will then do less testing:)
<knome> nobody is expected to do desktop+alt even currently, it should be a community effort
<smartboyhw> :)
<Sysi> knome: did main-buntu already decide to drop it or is it still in discussion?
<smartboyhw> Sysi: Main Ubuntu decided to drop it at Beta 1.
<knome> Sysi, it is not official yet i think, but i'm sure they will take that motion
<smartboyhw> I actually got PM with balloons about that, and he sure said that no alternate
<Sysi> minimal seems to work well for "advanced installation" even if it takes quite a while of downloading
<knome> Sysi, the 27MB? ;)
<smartboyhw> knome: I think he meant the need to download packages when installing
<Sysi> knome: xubuntu-desktop mostly
<knome> smartboyhw, yes, i know. i was only kidding.
<smartboyhw> knome: :)
<knome> Sysi, i believe it doesn't take much more than downloading the ISO
<Sysi> I'd guess so
<mips1911> I only use the alternate images, i never download the desktop ones. WOuld be sad if it's dropped.
<Sysi> mips1911: any reason for that?
<smartboyhw> Well, I think that the alternate images install faster. I don't know why...
<knome> mips1911, yeah, arguments
<knome> smartboyhw, probably because it doesn't need to run the graphical installer and thus more resources can be used to installing
<smartboyhw> Ah. Then I want the alternate images to stay now:)
<knome> ...
<Sysi> quantal daily installed very fast for me
<knome> of course there is less and less difference with faster hardware
<smartboyhw> Maybe I'm a bit inaccurate, I do it on VMs, though the same software:)
<knome> smartboyhw, it sounds like you haven't thought the issue thorough. please do that before commenting.
<smartboyhw> knome: Why?
<Sysi> because otherly your opinion doesn't really have much value
<smartboyhw> BTW, I don't understand why there is not LTSP when there's no alternate image. Does LTSP mean a LTS point release?
<knome> smartboyhw, why would i think your opinion is worth listening if you clearly don't have a clue what you are talking about?
<mips1911> I prefer to do a custom cli install as the desktop image has to much stuff in it I don't need. Once I've done a cli install I copy all the packages from the cd/image over to my /var/cache/apt and continue installing what I need. Should I ever have an emergency where I quickly have to do a full install I can also use the alternate image (I install in in a VM anyway to compare my install vs the full xubuntu one as well).  I could use the minimal install 
<mips1911> image but I have slow internet and it takes to long that way and should I ever need a full install in a emergency I'm screwed.
<knome> smartboyhw, feel free to google too: http://www.ltsp.org/
<mips1911> I've also had issues in the past where the desktop images refuse to boot on my pc.
<Sysi> mips1911: you can have desktop image for emergencies
<smartboyhw> Ah OK.
<smartboyhw> Sorry.
<knome> mips1911, well, that's one of the things we need to do. get more testing for the desktop images and fix ubiquity for more people
<mips1911> Sysi, I'm also bandwidth limited so downloading another iso image is not cool for me.
<Sysi> if mainline drops support for alternate, it will go sooner or later..
<knome> another thing to consider is that since ubuntu drops alternate, maybe creating your own remastered disks will become easier
<Sysi> I wonder what's main-ubuntu's take on LTSP
<mips1911> Do you guys know if/when we will ever see delta deb support in ubuntu. This will help a lot for those with slow connections & limited bandwidth. I know there are some technical issues wrt to this but I'm seriously considering switching to fedora on the next release because they do delta rpms. i don't really want to but I might have to.
<smartboyhw> knome: Then why on 12.04.1 will people do less testing on the alternate images? I did it in the last moment. You said to get more testing for the desktop images, but I think both need more testing:)
<knome> Sysi, that's one of the reasons why i don't think it's official until b1
<mips1911> I don't think the alternate images need more testing as they have never failed me where the desktop images have.
<knome> smartboyhw, i don't understand.
<Unit193> I've had an alternate fail.
<smartboyhw> Unit193: Uh oh.
<Sysi> knome: though when building something like ltsp-server, using minimal and building from it shouldn't be a problem
<knome> mips1911, to be honest, the alternates break wayyy more often than desktops while developing. it's quite often that you will have a build from one or more days ago
<smartboyhw> Also, a weird question: Other flavors of Ubuntu can build on 27th or 28th, but then why can't Xubuntu? It is stuck in 22nd. Ubuntu Studio is even worse, stuck in 21st:(
<knome> Sysi, yeah, but what if you want to repeat that for, say, 50 pc's?
<mips1911> knome, then I've been lucky
<knome> smartboyhw, that's because the alternate images have been failing to build.
<mips1911> Sysi, does the server image not pull in stuff by default desktop users don't need?
<knome> mips1911, you can select what you want in the server installation.
<mips1911> still even if i used the server image I would not be able to do a quick xubuntu desktop install.
<knome> mips1911, and if you want ltsp... it's probably not too much of a problem
<Sysi> mips1911: minimal sure doesn't
<mips1911> Sysi, I don;t use minimal
<mips1911> or I should rather say have not use minimal
<Sysi> knome: why would you install 50 LTSP servers
<knome> Sysi, if you need to? :]
<knome> Sysi, ask stgraber... :P
<Sysi> knome: I guess you could make local mirror and netinstall would be fast
<mips1911> How hard would it be to implement a minimal installer for as part of the desktop installer image?
<Sysi> knome: at my highschool we had fat-clients, they were installed and updated with netinstall and FAI, fully automatic install or something
<mips1911> If you could do both from one cd that kill two birds with one stone but that still leaves out stuff like LVM
<knome> mips1911, not pursueable by xubuntu team with these resources
<knome> Sysi, looks like there are options for the LTSP, read the follow-up messages to steves
<knome> Sysi, eg. click on "next message" at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2012-August/035675.html
<knome> more insight on other issues too
<Sysi> knome: I think your last link wasn't "by thread", I'm reading that now
<knome> Sysi, mm
<mr_pouit> xubuntu-core = xfce4 I guess (there's already this minimal metapackage)
<mr_pouit> hey
<ochosi> hey mr_pouit 
<knome> mr_pouit, and default-settings?
<Unit193> Default settings, shimmer-themes.
<knome> default settings would imply shimmer-themes, yeah
<Sysi> does xfce4 depend on xorg? it doesn't include DM, how minimal are we talking about..
<knome> Sysi, i'm 99.999999% certain it does. :)
<Sysi> does dropping jockey finally make installing nvidia drivers with apt-get work?
<knome> Sysi, jockey should now be integrated with software-properties-gtk. i don't know how, though
<Unit193> Didn't work half as well for me.
<knome> oki, new wallpaper folks
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/quantal_wall/wall-draft-1-simons-size-3.png
<ochosi> i like that it's still called "simons-size" :}
<knome> and slideshow remake:
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/quantal_blueprints/slideshow-remake.png
<knome> ochosi, that could be it's name for the shimmer package :P
<Unit193> Slideshow is nice, wallpaper is slightly bland, but people change that to whatever they want I'm sure.
<knome> it's very simple for a change, and no theme in it really
<Unit193> Too late this cycle, but "community wallpapers" going for another round?
<knome> we simply have no space, so yeah
<knome> let's see what the situation is with R
<knome> or if we can get non-oversized for Q either :P
<Unit193> Additional wallpapers/themes or other additions in the repo?
<knome> Unit193, mmh, well, when we are planning R, can you add that item to the roadmap proposals so we don't forget it?
<knome> Unit193, i don't have any reasons not to pursue that, but this cycle was too frantic for that
<knome> i will need some new screenshots for the slideshow
<knome> i'll ping you people when i know what
<mips1911> It looks like in future I would have to download both the minimal & desktop images, do a minimal install and copy the packages from the desktop image over to my minimal image in order to do what I currently do with the alternate image. I'll just have to figure out how to extract the packages from the squashfs
<knome> aptoncd?
<Unit193> 7zip liked those, iirc.  Also, apt-offline?
<mips1911> knome, can aptoncd access live images to extract packages?
<knome> mips1911, i have no idea about that, but i believe you can create a cd with packages with that.
<knome> mips1911, what you are doing is simply trying to avoid to try and fix ubiquity
<Sysi> would it makse any sense to add minimal-installation option to ubiquity?
<mips1911> knome, yes but it has to download them via the repos as far as i know. I'm trying to avoid that and I would no know all the packages I need.
<Sysi> s/makse/make
<Sysi> I've used that feature of alt-cd couple times as well
<Unit193> Think http://ubottu.com/ljl/apt/ is broken.
<mips1911> knome, i'm not a dev and don't have a clue so I would leave that up to you guys that know what you are doing
<knome> Sysi, you should take that to ubuntu, again xubuntu doesn't have the manpower to maintain
<Sysi> yeah
<knome> i don't think it's going to happen, but there might be a very slim chance of it happening
<knome> but why would they add it to desktop if it's failing on alt?
<mips1911> Grr, skip my previous idea. I just realised the desktop image does not contain and .deb files
<Unit193> http://people.ubuntu.com/~dylanmccall/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/preview/xubuntu/slides/index.html Anyway to get that to pull from another bzr branch?
<knome> hmm?
<knome> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubiquity-slideshow/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/html
<knome> i haven't pushed the new slideshow yet, though
<Unit193> Yeah, was under the impression that page was pulling info directly, or something weird.
<knome> heh
<knome> i've no idea
<knome> probably not
<knome> at least from my pc... >:)
<mr_pouit> micahg: (for the record, check #u-devel a few mins ago) it seems we'll have to port indicator-messages back to gtk2, since the old gtk2 version won't work anymore
<Sysi> knome: about new wallpaper, what if circles of bottom right were a bit bigger and maybe higher?
<knome> Sysi, possible
<Sysi> it interferes with focusing to bottom panel a bit now
<knome> yeah, we'll need to fix that
<Sysi> well, it works with default panel layout or panel on top but I think having panel on bottom is quite popular too
<Sysi> (and it just might look better, maybe give it a shot)
<knome> sure
<amerigena> Email said to join #xubuntu-devel and post if I wanted to contribute to the Docbook effort.
<elfy> I'd get ready for knome to snatch your hand off then :)
<amerigena> OK.
<Unit193> You know docbooks?
<amerigena> No. But the email stipulated that experience wasn't strictly necessary.
<amerigena> It's OK if you don't know anything
<amerigena> about Docbook. Just come hang around and we'll see what we can do. 
<Unit193> Sure, was just asking until knome shows up and says something.
<knome> something
<knome> amerigena, do you know docbook already?
<amerigena> Nope.
<amerigena> Don't.
<Unit193> knome: Missed the period, and scrollback. ;)
<knome> amerigena, familiar with bzr?
<amerigena> Somewhat.
<knome> okay, get a copy of our docs: https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu/quantal/+source/xubuntu-docs
<knome> 'bzr branch lp:ubuntu/xubuntu-docs' that is
<knome> i don't know docbook myself, so i don't know where to start
<knome> i do know something though
<knome> you will need docbook, docbook-utils and gnome-doc-utils to be able to build the documentation.
<knome> at least.
<knome> we don't plan to change the template much (only stylesheets) this release, so what we would need is somebody who is familiar enough with the docs to be able to, simply (or not), drop in new text
<amerigena> OK.
<amerigena> exit
<knome> i believe that is rather trivial, but i really don't have time myself to look at it, at least not now
<knome> the doc string freeze is on Sep 20, so things need do happen before that
<knome> if you hang around this channel, you will get guidance and pointers on what we need
<amerigena> OK/
<amerigena> I got a copy of the documentation, and will look at it this afternoon.
<knome> and finally, don't feel obliged to do more than you can. if you feel you've had, or start having enough, just tell us
<knome> we will try to help as much as we can
<knome> but we simply lack hands to do everything :)
<amerigena> Understood. Looking forward to (hopefully) being one of those helping hands.
<knome> somebody has Q installed?
<Unit193> Kind of.
<smartboyhw> No.
<knome> what does that mean?
<knome> smartboyhw, i don't need the information you don't
<micahg> mr_pouit: ted told me that they weren't going to break it :(
<ochosi> yeah, sucks pretty bad imo
<ochosi> especially when there's so little time to think about good alternatives
<mr_pouit> tbh I think they'll drop gtk2 support of libindicat* in R
<mr_pouit> and xfce will still be gtk2
<micahg> mr_pouit: has there been any progress in porting the panel to gtk3 upstream?
<mr_pouit> no
<micahg> :(
<GridCube> there seems to be a huge bunch of problems comming on :/
<GridCube> with mainbuntu choosing to move on to gtk3 and all that
<Unit193> Quite.
<GridCube> I think that the decision to drop alternate should be made soon, it will save lots of time on people who actually know how to do stuff
<knome> GridCube, we will make it before beta1, aka thursday
<GridCube> I'll send a mail to the respect now
<Sysi> do 4.10 action buttons need xscreensaver for user-switching? (is dropping xscreensaver discussion done?)
<knome> Sysi, we won't drop it now
<knome> bbl
<elfy> anyone know if I should expect to see nvidia drivers in the additional drivers software-centre tab? 
<holstein> elfy: usually a seperate popup
<bluesabre> elfy, I didn't see them in there in 12.10
<elfy> holstein: not in 12.10 holstein 
<bluesabre> I don't think they build right now
<holstein> if you search nvidia, you'll see it, but that doesnt mean you need it.. i usually refer to the wiki
<elfy> bluesabre: aah ok - they went walkabout a while ago :)
<elfy> holstein: I know I can find it - was thinking about others expecting to find it in add drivers - cos they will :)
<bluesabre> knome: Do we still support/recommend exaile?  http://dagobah.princessleia.com/Xubuntu/12.10/Music
<knome> bluesabre, no. gmb is the one for that
<bluesabre> I thought so
<bluesabre> Cleanup time :D
<knome> y
<bluesabre> I just thought it was odd that we still mention it in our offline doc
<knome> yeah, it's not updated yet
<knome> (the section)
<bluesabre> I'll work on it for a bit
<knome> thanks, every bit counts
<micahg> mr_pouit: I'm going to temporarily drop xfce4-indicator and the gtk2 indicator stuff from the seeds until we get this sorted unless you have a better idea (might not happen until tomorrow)
<knome> hey micahg 
<micahg> hi knome
<knome> UIF prepping is looking surprisingly good
<knome> Sysi, ?
<knome> hmm, there some weird movement of mouse in quantal virtualbxo install
<pleia2> hey amerigena 
<amerigena> hello
<pleia2> we do still need folks pitching in on rewrites on the wiki :)
<amerigena> OK. So how do I do it? Bzr was over my head.
<pleia2> the instructions here are a good start: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2012-August/008343.html
<pleia2> for now we're just editing pages on http://dagobah.princessleia.com/Xubuntu/12/10
<pleia2> err
<pleia2> http://dagobah.princessleia.com/Xubuntu/12.10
<pleia2> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2012-August/008392.html explains exactly where we are, and what strikethrough, bold and such mean
 * pleia2 heads off to an appointment
<mr_pouit> micahg: yes, please, it won't be ready at least until UIF anyway :/
#xubuntu-devel 2012-08-29
<elfy> got the new settings manager here now it seems - bit of an issue - why has synaptic disappeared? I can see not having it in the manager if synaptic is going to disappear - but how come it's not in the system menu still ?
<knome> elfy, synaptic is not in the seeds anymore
<elfy> uninstallable completely?
<knome> elfy, you can install it from the repositories
<knome> no, just removed from the default xubuntu seed
<elfy> that's not what I'm saying 
<elfy> audacious isn't in the default - install it and you get a menu item - why is synaptic not getting a menu item at all?
<knome> i don't know. audacious being there is a bug then.
<elfy> ?
<knome> if audacious is not installed, then it's menu icon should not appear in the settings manager
<knome> irs
<knome> *its
<elfy> knome: sorry - translation issues - I'll try again
<knome> k
<elfy> install audacious and it gets a menu item where you expect to see it, install synaptic and I would expect to see it in system
<elfy> it's disappeared completely after the settings manager changes 
<elfy> does that make more sense to you :)
<knome> yes
<elfy> knome: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/+bug/1043151
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1043151 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Synaptic missing from menu" [Undecided,New]
<knome> elfy, so, to make sure; does synaptic appear *anywhere* ?
<elfy> no
<knome> ok, good
<elfy> oh hang on 
<elfy> it's been disabled if you go to alacarte
<elfy> and doesn't let you re-enable it 
<elfy> I'll add that info to the bug report
<knome> yup
<elfy> k - done
<knome> thanks
<knome> pleia2, uhuh
<olbi> hello
<olbi> some1 know if Linux 3.6 will be in final release?
<knome> kernelfreeze is on oct 4, but xubuntu uses the kernel ubuntu has, so better ask somewhere else, like #ubuntu-kernel
<knome> but i don't think major release upgrade is going to happen at this time
<mr_pouit> mmh, is it a big deal if synaptic is missing?
<mr_pouit> Any desktop file with Category=Settings;PackageManager;System; will be missing anyway
<knome> hey mr_pouit :)
<mr_pouit> ochosi: I can blacklist desktop files (<Filename>foo.desktop</Filename>), or categories, or almost anything
<mr_pouit> hey there
<elfy> mr_pouit: well it is if you install it and then it disappears :)
<mr_pouit> yeah, I'll fix that
<elfy> as long as that doesn't mean remove it from the repos :D
<elfy> I perfectly understand and agree with it not being in the settings manager - makes complete sense 
<smartboyhw> knome: Nice wallpaper on the email you just sent
<knome> mr_pouit, bug #1043176
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1043176 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Update lightdm "computer" icon" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1043176
<knome> mr_pouit, bug #1043170
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1043170 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Update wallpaper (incl. in LightDM and Plymouth) for Quantal" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1043170
<mr_pouit> thanks
<knome> anything else you need?
<mr_pouit> knome: can you get on your table and dance?
<mr_pouit> so, no, it's ok :P
<knome> mr_pouit, if we get to fix greybird, i'll do that
<mr_pouit> oh right
<mr_pouit> ochosi: you could file a bug against xserver-xorg in ubuntu about that issue, then knome can poke them :P (the maintainers might know which component changed/why it does that and that may help ofourdan too)
<knome> yes, i can
<ochosi> basically i think we should forward/link the upstream bugreport
<mr_pouit> elfy: http://lionel.lefolgoc.net/misc/xfce-applications.menu << in /etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/menus, or ~/.config/menus, and tell me if it's better. Thanks! :P
<elfy> appears in menu adding it to ~/.config/menus 
<elfy> looks fine 
<elfy> mr_pouit: you want me to check in /etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/menus as well ?
<mr_pouit> no no, it's ok, thanks
<elfy> ok :)
<knome> mr_pouit, hmm, so, do you need a bug for uploading new elementary-xfce ?
<mr_pouit> no, there's already one used by ochosi and bluesabre afaik
<knome> ok...
<ochosi> yup
<knome> # ?
<ochosi> it's set to fix committed
<knome> ok
<ochosi> knome: it's linked in the blueprint
<ochosi> my connectivity is rly low here atm
<knome> ok, good
<knome> that was what i was looking for
<knome> i think the slideshow is ready
<knome> those who want to test the new xubuntu slideshow, clone https://code.launchpad.net/~ubiquity-slideshow/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/html
<knome> there's a README how to get it running, but basically it's "install zenity" and "run ./test-slideshow.sh xubuntu"
<smartboyhw> Tested it and looks great. Thanks knome
<smartboyhw> Actually we don't need to install zenity, it is normally included (except if you removed it)
<knome> in some release it wasn't, becuase i remember having to install it
<smartboyhw> But even in the README it says that it should be installed...
<smartboyhw> (Note: needs zenity, which is probably already installed). in README
<knome> whatever
<smartboyhw> :)
<olbi> some1 could zip these files and host it? :) I dont want to install bzr now :P
<smartboyhw> Why?
<olbi> becasue this is my working machine, testing is in home already :P
<smartboyhw> Wait
<smartboyhw> olbi: http://www.datafilehost.com/download-b3529a7e.html
<olbi> thx :)
<smartboyhw> ;)
<olbi> strange errors have
<olbi> (zenity:13042): Gtk-WARNING **: Theme parsing error: gtk-widgets.css:1679:17: Junk at end of value
<smartboyhw> olbi: What?
<olbi> when running these slides
<smartboyhw> Weird, i only get font warnings
<olbi> i run it on Ubuntu 11.10
<ochosi> olbi: most likely too old gtk3
<ochosi> (most likely == i'm pretty sure)
<olbi> hmm, think so :P
<olbi> I presume that in system couldn't be gtk2 and gtk3?
<bluesabre> 11.10 was using gtk 3.2, right?  That was like, brand new
<olbi> yep, 3.2 it is
<knome> mr_pouit, status with elementary-xfce and the new panel layout?
<knome> mr_pouit, also, what's the stance on bug #1005785
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1005785 in xubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "Convert parts of elementary-xfce to png during pkg-build" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1005785
<ochosi> knome: but #1005785 was postponed due to lack of space :/
<ochosi> s/but/bug/
<knome> ochosi, oh, ok
<knome> then why is it new/linked?
<ochosi> i think it was kinda "postponed", you know...
<knome> heh
<knome> if you don't want to change the bug status, then unlink it so it doesn't appear in the Q work items
<knome> Book_em_Dano, o hai
<pleia2> oh bother, spamtastic wiki
<knome> haha
<knome> spamtastic knome
<knome> hey pleia2 
<knome> you have time now? :]
<pleia2> no, getting the wiki sorted, then back to work
<knome> bah
<knome> so, kick out knome?
<pleia2> knome is fine
<knome> ;)
<knome> are you saying i'm not working hard enough?!
 * pleia2 gives knome a gold star
<knome> hehe
<knome> not platinum?
<pleia2> maybe later
<knome> ha
<knome> i just fixed most of "internet and networks"
<knome> as you probably noticed
<pleia2> I accidentally nuked the RecentChanges page and didn't have backups
<pleia2> sorry about that
 * pleia2 loses 20 sysadmin points
<pleia2> but the spam is gone, I'll keep an eye on it
<knome> doh
<knome> :)
<pleia2> and I'm making backups now ;)
<knome> hah
<knome> pleia2, reference to synaptic https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InstallingSoftware#Installing packages without an Internet connection
<pleia2> yeah well, that's because it's a poorly maintained wiki :)
<knome> o'rly
<pleia2> we should all just use the arch wiki
<knome> hah
#xubuntu-devel 2012-08-30
<pleia2> knome: once we finish edits, I think I'll close down account creation, you and everyone who has worked on it will still be able to log in, but not new people
<pleia2> getting like 6 spam accounts created per hour, it's meh and moin doesn't have good controls for this
<pleia2> (their response is "It's a wiki!")
<knome> yeah
<knome> can you moderate account creation?
<pleia2> not without code changes
<pleia2> http://moinmo.in/FeatureRequests/DisableUserCreation outlines how to do it
<knome> fss
<knome> i mean moderation as in somebody needs to click a button
<knome> :P
<pleia2> I was hoping for that, alas...
<knome> ooh! our doc wiki is down!
<knome> mr_pouit, what's your schedule today?
<mr_pouit> knome: not available, it's a good schedule :P
<mr_pouit> I can upload any last minute change before UIF
<knome> mr_pouit, what about the doc looks stuff?
<knome> mr_pouit, do you think it's possible to review that quickly and push?
<knome> mr_pouit, it's not perfect, but at least it's much better than what we've had before
<knome> mr_pouit, if you know at what time you would get to that, i can try to make it better before
<mr_pouit> I can't upload before 19 my local time anyway
<mr_pouit> 17 UTC I guess
<knome> ok
<knome> i'll try to get fixes in by that then
<knome> mr_pouit, bug #1043957
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1043957 in xubuntu-docs (Ubuntu) "Update documentation looks" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1043957
<knome> bbl, about 19UTC
<mr_pouit> okay
<bluesabre> knome, I tried.  It's at least a little better organized.  http://dagobah.princessleia.com/Xubuntu/12.10/Troubleshooting
<mr_pouit> ochosi: abiword patch is in
<bluesabre> :'-) <-- Tears of happiness
<bluesabre> uh oh, lightdm is in this apt-get update
<bluesabre> (Don't break anything) :)
<knome> micahg, what's the status with the indicators?
<micahg> knome: removed for beta 1
<knome> micahg, when are you expecting to get to reupload the gtk2 versions?
<knome> is beta 2 realistic?
<micahg> knome: mr_pouit is handling that, you're CCd on the E-Mail thread, so you should know as much as me at this point :)
<micahg> yeah, should be
<knome> ok, good enough for me. thanks! :)
<bluesabre> :(
<bluesabre> I miss the indicators already
<knome> bluesabre, don't be sad... :)
<knome> bluesabre, btw, the messaging indicator is probably not going to make it in Q
<bluesabre> knome: And you say don't be sad?
<knome> bluesabre, unless you wish to work on it...
<bluesabre> D:
<bluesabre> That's tempting
<knome> well, i can't help it, so i'll try not to be sad. that's just how it is
<bluesabre> Because I really like the messaging menu
<knome> :)
<knome> ask micahg and mr_pouit for details!
<bluesabre> So, what's the deadline for that?
<knome> or probably just mr_pouit :D
<knome> bluesabre, deadline? feature freeze...
<knome> bluesabre, but it'd be good to get them to beta 2 with FFe's
<bluesabre> ok
<bluesabre> mr_pouit: Do we have indicator-messages in a branch somewhere?
<knome> anybody in the team who has got something new uploaded after alpha 3, please update http://xubuntu.org/wp-admin/post.php?post=1413&action=edit
<knome> xubuntu-team members should be able to login with ubuntu sso at http://xubuntu.org/wp-admin/
<knome> if you have problems, be in touch with me
 * knome will now release the edit lock
<bluesabre> holy crap, you can integrate wordpress with ubuntu sso!
<knome> yes, that's a canonical-provided feature
<knome> i heard you can integrate apache with ubuntu sso...
<bluesabre> I don't suppose app updates should be included?  (catfish/parole)
<knome> well, if they are completely different than in a3, then include them
<bluesabre> Cool
<knome> we can always drop them from the final notes, if we have too much of them, but i don't think we will :)
<knome> bluesabre, http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/quantal_blueprints/doclooks-update.png (updated a min ago, so take a look if you saw that url before)
<bluesabre> Woohoo, we've made it to the future!
<knome> yeah
<bluesabre> Looks really good
<knome> now we only need to update the content...
<knome> thanks :)
 * knome worked about 2h with it today
<bluesabre> Impressive
<bluesabre> Maybe we should call you knome-shell?
<knome> hah :P
 * holstein would totally run knome-shell!
<knome> ha
<bluesabre> How much work is it to take the wiki-formatted docs and convert back to our offline docs?
<knome> i don't know docbook, but i believe it takes a few days
<knome> should look at the syntax quickly someday
<knome> we have about three weeks to update the doc strings, so now that the doc look is updated, we have again some breathing space with it
<bluesabre> Cool
<knome> after that, there's two weeks time to translate the docs
<bluesabre> I tried to work on the Network Troubleshooting section, but only managed to clean it up a little bit and reorganize
<knome> it's a good start
<knome> ifconfig? isn't nm able to give connection info too
<knome> right-click -> connection info
<bluesabre> Ah
<bluesabre> So it seems
<bluesabre> That's a lot more user-friendly!
 * bluesabre will return to editing
<ochosi> bluesabre: it seems we'd also have to update our icon-theme for the messaging-menu... http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/08/ubuntu-add-new-message-indicator-icons
<bluesabre> I saw that
<ochosi> btw, the icons look horrible imo
<bluesabre> I agree
<bluesabre> We can do better
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> exactly :)
<ochosi> at least if someone gets it to work
<bluesabre> If we have a branch somewhere, I can have a look at it
<ochosi> i don't think we do yet
<ochosi> i'm wondering how mr_pouit works on code, maybe he just pulls it locally and then pushes it when he's done with it
<ochosi> feel free to create at least a private branch in lp
<bluesabre> I'm not even sure where to start.  Is it indicator-messages-gtk2 I'm assuming?
<mr_pouit> re (quickly)
<ochosi> i guess you'd have to look at the changes in the gtk3-version first
<ochosi> oh, there is the man!
<mr_pouit> bluesabre: you need to take lp:indicator-messages from bzr, the latest branch
<mr_pouit> they changed the protocol, it's now libmessaging-menu, which uses some gtk3-only functions
<bluesabre> So do we need to fork that too or something?
<mr_pouit> you can try to port it to gtk2 ;>
<bluesabre> I might play with that a bit then
<ochosi> mr_pouit: so both would have to be ported to gtk2, indicator-messages and the lib?
<mr_pouit> knome: I'll try to take care of indicator-application and indicator-sound this week-end
<mr_pouit> ochosi: it's in the same source
<ochosi> oh ok
<mr_pouit> lubuntu only uses indicator-application by default, so basically they don't care with the rest
<ochosi> hm, i see
<ochosi> so no support from gilir then...
<mr_pouit> ochosi: I usually push branches as soon as possible, unless I did some horrible and unclean and dirty and horrible again hacks ;>
<ochosi> hehe, ok :)
<ochosi> darn, seems i should fix another bug in albatross-gtk2 :/
<bluesabre> I'm starting to consider buying that ultra-widescreen laptop
<ochosi> bluesabre: which one?
<mr_pouit> (I put my hacks at https://lionel.lefolgoc.net/misc/indicators-gtk2/ until i've cleaned that in a branch :P)
<bluesabre> I forgot who makes it
<bluesabre> But it has a 21:10 ratio I believe
<ochosi> mr_pouit: uu, untrusted connection! should i trust it?? (:
<mr_pouit> remove the 's' :P
<pnarciso> hello all
<ochosi> oh right, 's' as in untruSted
<ochosi> ciao pnarciso 
<pnarciso> italiano :)
<ochosi> you seem to be quite quick from my last bugreport comment in lp to here :)
<pnarciso> well, I'm digging testing xubuntu
<ochosi> :)
<pnarciso> great work 
<ochosi> nice
<ochosi> thanks, user-interface freeze kept us busy the last few days
<ochosi> but since that deadline has passed we can go back to ignoring bugs and bugreports ;)
<pnarciso> can you upload that background for the panel
<pnarciso> I would like to test it
<ochosi> you mean the one from the screenshot?
<pnarciso> Yes, and more if you have
<ochosi> i contacted the author a few times, but he never responded and it was entirely unclear under what license he had published it
<ochosi> (somewhere on deviantart i think)
<ochosi> but someone suggested a new one
<ochosi> i can put it up somewhere for you to test
<pnarciso> ok
<ochosi> for private use i can also send you the other one
<pnarciso> offcourse
<ochosi> but we won't be able to use that in xubuntu i guess
<pnarciso> It was a good idea to disable compositor by deafult, it causes more issues than advantages
<ochosi> pnarciso: http://imagebin.org/226489
<ochosi> mr_pouit: did we really disable the compositor by default?
<bluesabre> personal branch: https://code.launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/indicator-messages/indicator-messages-gtk2
<bluesabre> I'll hack on it tonight (possibly) and tomorrow
<ochosi> sounds great!
<mr_pouit> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/quantal/xubuntu-default-settings/quantal/view/head:/etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/xfwm4.xml#L9
<mr_pouit> ochosi: nope, it's still enabled
<ochosi> that's what i thought
<mr_pouit> (unless something changed in xfwm4)
<ochosi> pnarciso: ^
<Sysi> for some reason indicator-messages fix reminds me about guy who thought about making irc bot with Qt
<mr_pouit> but the bottom dock-like panel would look ugly with compositing anyway
<pnarciso> I'm talking about the decision in one of your meetings
<pnarciso> at least for the live cd
<ochosi> pnarciso: afair there was only a discussion, then astraljava should've investigated switching off the compositor just for the live-session
<ochosi> but since that never went down (i guess because RL got in the way) it's still enabled everywhere
<ochosi> mr_pouit: not if it had a background-image or something
<mr_pouit> yeah
<ochosi> but yeah, as long as xfwm4's borders are broken, i'm happy we have some shadow behind windows...
<mr_pouit> hehe
<mr_pouit> bbl, maybe
<ochosi> ok, ttyl
<pnarciso> I've just put that background image and it looks gooood
<ochosi> screenshot?
<pnarciso> http://imagebin.org/226492
<ochosi> yeah, doesn't look bad
<ochosi> there's a bug though with it
<ochosi> not sure why
<ochosi> look at the trash-icon
<ochosi> the lines break before and after
<bluesabre> mr_pouit: Just to make sure I'm in the right direction, does (gtk_widget_insert_action_group) ring a bell?
<ochosi> (i guess because it's not a launcher but a plugin)
<ochosi> bluesabre: he left at 22:57
<ochosi> (oops, that's in my TZ)
<bluesabre> I see that now
<ochosi> :)
<bluesabre> But I think that's right
<ochosi> maybe it's worth talking to indicator-devs
<ochosi> not sure they'll be helpful
<bluesabre> I'm curious to see how far I get
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> but we could try to make them feel bad :p
<ochosi> hehe, ok
<pnarciso> another fix that landed today was for abiword, rullers aren't black anymore
<ochosi> yes i read
<ochosi> i just fired up my vbox just to test that
<ochosi> but i guess i have to change repos to the main server
<ochosi> fix hasnt landed on my mirror yet
<pnarciso> the problem right now is the flashing when scrolling the pages with mouse wheel or scroll bars
<ochosi> pnarciso: btw, do you have a hardware install or are you using virtualisation to test quantal?
<ochosi> meh, i can confirm the flickering with vbox :(
<pnarciso> I have both
<ochosi> also: i'm not sure i like the grey background of the rulers
<ochosi> i'd have preferred if they had used the base-color, not the bg-color
<pnarciso> well, that's a thing that must be changed in the theme I guess
<ochosi> not sure it can be changed
<ochosi> abiword uses a very very custom widget for the rulers
<ochosi> wow, this time ubuntu's community wallpapers are better than ever before
<bluesabre> Yeah, WAYYYYY better than 12.04's wps
<bluesabre> btw, the indicator-devs are jerks... using functions that are introduced in gtk 3.6
<bluesabre> It will make this a funnnnnnn project
<ochosi> yeah, well in short they don't care about us
<bluesabre> I think I'm just going to try to drop the new "essential" stuff into the code for gtk2
<bluesabre> and wrestle with it
<ochosi> hmm
<ochosi> what do the new functions do?
<bluesabre> They use things that weren't available in gtk2
<bluesabre> Like using a menu model
<GridCube> thats like using new stuff to do new stuff, how they dare!
<bluesabre> not exactly
<bluesabre> the menu model existed in gtk2
<bluesabre> but it appears like you couldn't actually use it for a menu
<bluesabre> or at least, I haven't figured it out yet
<pnarciso> can we expect new changes regarding how menu is displayed? Is this what you are working on?
<ochosi> pnarciso: what do you mean with "how menu is displayed"? what menu?
<knome> bluesabre, thanks for picking it up :)
<ochosi> ahoi mighty XPL
<bluesabre> knome, no promises
<knome> hey ochosi 
<bluesabre> I'm going to try
<bluesabre> really hard
<knome> bluesabre, at least you're trying... and seriously man, you have three weeks
<bluesabre> but can't guarantee anything
<knome> ;)
<bluesabre> lol
<pnarciso> the subject that bluesabre is talking
<ochosi> pnarciso: we lost the indicators from the panel in 12.10 for now
<ochosi> pnarciso: bluesabre and mr_pouit are working to get them back
<bluesabre> My goal is to get them back in at least their previous form
<ochosi> yeah, that would be enough imo
<ochosi> for 13.04 we need an entirely new plan
<ochosi> (prolly involving a gtk3 panel)
<bluesabre> Does the panel depend on a lot of xf-stuff, or is it largely gtk2 only?
<ochosi> not sure
<ochosi> i think the main problem are all the plugins and goodies...
<pnarciso> Ok, I get it, that why I can't see the mail indicator or gmusic browser
<ochosi> exactly
<pnarciso> is this because xfce still haven't migrated to gtk3?
<ochosi> yes
<ochosi> basically
<pnarciso> have you tried to contact xfce devs for a workaround
<ochosi> indicators have nothing to do with xfce, they're done by ubuntu
<bluesabre> heading out, bbl
<ochosi> we can only hope that the panel will get ported in time for 13.04
<bluesabre> seeya guys
<knome> whatsoever, yes, we are in constant communication with the xfce devs
<ochosi> bluesabre: k, seeya later
<knome> see you bluesabre 
<pnarciso> with xfce now the default DE in debian, let's hope more ppl join xfce team, it's a great DE but it's lagging behind
<ochosi> well, it has been a very small team pretty much always
<knome> ubuntu looks like keeping alternate at least for beta 1, so probably we should too.
<pnarciso> in the past week alternate install was the only way to install daily build
<knome> i installed with desktop
<pnarciso> don't know if those problem were fixed by now
<knome> it wasn't today, maybe 2 days ago
<pnarciso> xorg 1.13 really messed up
<knome> only by one pixel, so not a lot..
<knome> ;)
<knome> re: alternate, looks like ubuntu is dropping it anyway. stgraber just wants to fix ltsp on alternate before they drop it ;)
<pnarciso> and firefox crashed with xorg 1.13
<knome> firefox crashes even without xorg :)
<pnarciso> about multimedia support for ubuntu, do you have any improvements in mind for parole, or even thinking changing to another video player?
<ochosi> pnarciso: bluesabre and me improved parole quite a bit
<ochosi> pnarciso: have you tried it in 12.10?
<pnarciso> I have tried parole and I think it's very weak
<pnarciso> bluesabre haven't tried yet
<pnarciso> I usually use smplayer, for me the best
<pnarciso> forgeat about the bluesabre part, I read wrong :)
<ochosi> :)
<pnarciso> parole lacks option to choose what renderer to use
<ochosi> renderer?
<pnarciso> gl, vdapu, vv
<pnarciso> xv
<ochosi> not a very basic feature tbh
<pnarciso> without this options i'm stuck with video tearing
<ochosi> depends, i dunno what gstreamer uses by default
<pnarciso> I think is XV
<pnarciso> dunno
<ochosi> not sure, we're using a newer version of playbin now
<ochosi> (i mean since parole 0.3.0)
<pnarciso> 0.3.0.3
<pnarciso> is the latest version in repo
<ochosi> yeah, it's our latest release
<pnarciso> using mplayer would be a better option
<pnarciso> more versatile and it support a lot of video renderers
<pnarciso> I have nvidia and I can use vdpau
<ochosi> mhm
<ochosi> i'm off for tonight, talk to you soon
<pnarciso> see ya
<amerigena> so, does the Network Troubleshooting section of the wiki need edits or not?
<pleia2> amerigena: what name are you using on the wiki?
<pleia2> looks like a JackFromm is actively editing that page
<knome> pleia2, bluesabre was on it too :)
<knome> but generally, if you think you can improve it..
<knome> pleia2, would you like to go through some sections and see if they'd be ready to publish?
<knome> pleia2, if yes, make the "checked out" sections with bold
<pleia2> knome: can't right now :(
<pleia2> still working, then have an appointment, then more work, then packing!
<knome> pleia2, http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/quantal_blueprints/doclooks-update.png
<knome> pleia2, you didn't see that yet!
<pleia2> pretty :)
<knome> pleia2, yeah, and you know what? it's uploaded
<pleia2> :D
<knome> so more breathing space before docstringfreeze.. .)
<knome> + another eye
<knome> but yeah, ok if you can't
<knome> i'll see if i have time for some tomorrow
<pnarciso> hey guys
<amerigena> RichDennis
<pleia2> amerigena: ok, JackFromm's last edit was 5 minutes ago so it looks like he's actively editing that page and it doesn't need attention at this very moment
<amerigena> that's the name I'm using on the wiki
<amerigena> OK. Are there any pages that do need editing?
<amerigena> Or is it all done?
<pleia2> knome: ^^
<pleia2> (I don't know :))
<knome> uh
<knome> there's something to do yeah
<pnarciso> the panel indicators are behaving weird, I just lost my x-chat panel indicator :)
<pnarciso> have xubuntu 12.10 entered feature freeze by now ?
<pleia2> yeah, everything did today
<pleia2> you can still submit bugs though, fixes can get in :)
<pnarciso> I would like to make a sugestion regarding a keyboard shorcut to enable/disable compositor on the fly
<pleia2> ah, that sort of thing would be better as a suggestion for the next cycle
<Book_em_Dano>  does anyone need help w/ DocBook editing for the overhaul of the Xubuntu offline documentation?
<pnarciso> ahh ok
<pnarciso> I come up with a really nice script to do that
<pleia2> Book_em_Dano: we absolutely do! but I think we're not quite ready yet (still have folks working on the rewrite)
<pnarciso> and it's very useful
<pleia2> Book_em_Dano: so please stick around, we'll need you :)
<pnarciso> if someone need portuguese translations I can help
<pleia2> pnarciso: great, so each cycle we create a planning document: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap
<pleia2> when we're creating that, there are posts on the xubuntu-devel mailing list, so I'd suggest signing up for that if you haven't already
#xubuntu-devel 2012-08-31
<pnarciso> ok
<pnarciso> we are entering the bug fix period for now then
<pleia2> yep
<SkippersBoss> When does the rewrite need to be done for
<pleia2> "soon"
<pleia2> we need to give time to editors to review, and then the docbook folks to convert
<SkippersBoss> /dev/soon/
<pleia2> and we have 3 weeks to do it all
<SkippersBoss> yhans
<pleia2> (docs freeze is sept 20)
<pnarciso> right now there's the plugin indicators bug and it seems xorg is messing with the themes
<SkippersBoss> Oooooh
<SkippersBoss> so i can spent some time wioth my folks then this weekend
<pleia2> well docs freeze is when we have to have it all edited and checked into docbook
<knome> Book_em_Dano, i'll probably need to be overseeing the docbook stuff this cycle, and pass it on to somebody else later... i think it would be ideal if we could sit down and look how the current docbook stuff works, and how you'd suggest for us to edit the docbook markup
<pleia2> so we need the actual stuff written well before tha t:)
<SkippersBoss> pleia2, pressure hmm
<knome> pleia2, if i get my head around the docbook syntax (which i will make sure i will), one week will be enough.
<SkippersBoss> i have xfburn doc to write as well
<knome> three weeks is pressure? nah, three hours is
<pleia2> knome: great \o/
<knome> pleia2, so two weeks for rewriting, but i'd like to have about a week for final checking out and making sure our "syntax" is the same everywhere
<knome> i'm already thinking
<SkippersBoss> knome. pleia2 said "well before"
<knome> "press" versus "click"
<knome> and how should we mark menu paths and buttons
<SkippersBoss> EUH ?
<knome> SkippersBoss, what i say overrides what pleia2 says ;)
<pleia2> lol
<pleia2> knome is the boss
<SkippersBoss> All hail to knome
<knome> i do agree with her though, but i think one week is good for the docbook conversion
<knome> so that's well enough
<pleia2> knome: were you counting editing time in rewrite time?
<SkippersBoss> Like i said my folks are here till monday. After that I should have plenty time left to....
<knome> pleia2, yes
<pleia2> ok, gotcha
<knome> pleia2, so maybe 1 week for rewriting, then freeze "new stuff", 1 week for editing and overseeing everything is in place, and 1 week for to convert to docbook
<pleia2> yeah, that's what I'm thinking
<knome> SkippersBoss, to give you an idea of "pressure", i started the documentation look redesign 6 hours before the UI freeze ;)
<SkippersBoss> Ueberboss lol
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/quantal_blueprints/doclooks-update.png
<knome> that's how it'll look
<knome> i'd say that's a slight improvement to the 11.10 style ;)
<knome> only a slight, but that's better than nothing
<knome> O:)
<SkippersBoss> sleek
<SkippersBoss> Simple but effective
<knome> i hope that gives the documentation writers some motivation
<knome> SkippersBoss, conscience judging, feel free to add yourself as a contributor in the "credits and license" page
<knome> http://dagobah.princessleia.com/Xubuntu/12.10/Credits%20and%20License
<knome> that
<knome> pleia2, do you think we've missed somebody else?
<jjfrv8> knome, can you let use know if you do settle on a standard "syntax" so we can make a final pass through before rewrite ends?
<knome> pleia2, (asking since you've been watching the commit notifications..)
<knome> jjfrv8, sure. we should settle on that soonish, and that's what we should do in a week or so :)
<knome> jjfrv8, i'll create a page on the wiki for the syntax later
<jjfrv8> OK
<knome> jjfrv8, if you have recommendations, we could look at that now..
<pleia2> HowardChan
<jjfrv8> Not really.  I was kicking it around in my head but not enough to come up with a recommendation.
<pleia2> RichDennis
<knome> jjfrv8, http://dagobah.princessleia.com/Xubuntu/StandardSyntax
<jjfrv8> knome, Duly noted.
<knome> jjfrv8, that's just a proposal
<knome> jjfrv8, i believe that syntax is quite widely used already though
<jjfrv8> knome, Gotcha. And if I have any suggestions, I'll pass them along.
<knome> yup!
<knome> thanks
<SkippersBoss> guys I m going to try a horizontal position
<SkippersBoss> have a good evening
<knome> good night
<amerigena> the links, on the offline documentation, the ones that say Create New Page - are those works in progress that someone else is doing, or do they need work?
<pleia2> amerigena: like what?
<pleia2> the ones that are crossed off we aren't doing
<pleia2> I didn't think any of the links were still pointing to "create new page" but if they are they do need to be written
<amerigena> I see one called The Desktop - never mind. Crossed out. My bad. Forget I said anything.
<pleia2> no worries :)
<smartboyhw> :)
<pleia2> so the bold ones are "done"
<pleia2> the rest need attention
<pleia2> (the rest that aren't crossed out)
<amerigena> I'm just trying to find one to work on. I was working on Troubleshooting, but somebody improved it, big time.
<pleia2> yeah
<pleia2> maybe some under "keeping your computer safe"?
<amerigena> Fair enough. I'll work on some of them.
<pleia2> thanks!
 * pleia2 cleans up wiki spam
<amerigena> Tried working on one. Get a message that there was an edit conflict.
<pleia2> doh, that's one smartboyhw was working on
<pleia2> it should show warnings when there are two editors
<knome> pleia2, that's why i also proposed etherpad for working :)
<knome> pleia2, == editing is visible
<knome> mr_pouit, ochosi: did the new panel config get uploaded?
<ochosi> knome: i dunno :)
<knome> heh
<knome> i'll chek
<knome> but what should i?
<ochosi> ?
<knome> if it's uploaded, what should i see?
<ochosi> no trash plugin, but catfish
<knome> k
<knome> let's see
<knome> i'll boot up quantal and delete .config
<ochosi> didn't you read the spec? :>
<knome> i did, but i'm in middle of three things
<knome> yup, it's in
<ochosi> good
<smartboyhw> knome: So what will happen to the edit conflict in the documentation http://dagobah.princessleia.com/Xubuntu/12.10/Keep%20your%20software%20up%20to%20date
<knome> somebody needs to manually solve it
<knome> i prefer the topmost version of those
<knome> because i intend to copy them to one long page
<knome> that is, http://dagobah.princessleia.com/Xubuntu/12.10/Keeping%20your%20computer%20safe
<smartboyhw> Sure, the top one is my version I think...
<knome> yeah, regardless of who did it ;)
<knome> i can resolve...
<smartboyhw> ;)
<smartboyhw> Thanks knome
<ochosi> knome: i'm wondering whether the "warning" icon is really better than the "info" icon you used before
<knome> ochosi, for what?
<knome> ochosi, those are for two different use cases
<ochosi> e.g. here for "While it is possible.." http://dagobah.princessleia.com/Xubuntu/12.10/Keeping%20your%20computer%20safe
<ochosi> i can see that you're using them for different messages
<knome> ochosi, well, warning means "don't do this if unsure"
<ochosi> just not sure the yellow warning icon would visually be less discomforting :)
<knome> the note talks about not setting autologin
<knome> oh, you mean that
<knome> mmwell
<knome> we can have like 5 or 6 different icons
<smartboyhw> I think warning is better.
<knome> that's how docbook currently works ;)
<ochosi> ok, it's fine
<ochosi> just wanted to mention it
<knome> ochosi, we should look at that in a week, when everything is written, and make sure we're using them consistently anyway
<ochosi> yeah, sounds good
<knome> "The update process may take a while if many updates need to be installed."
<knome> of course it might take a while...
<knome> removing
<elfy> knome: do you know if there's to be a beta today 
<knome> elfy, unfortunately no, i'm not on top of that thing
<elfy> k
<smartboyhw> Build errors....
<knome> elfy, actually, i think the beta images are going to be up on monday
<knome> now that i think it more than 2 milliseconds
<elfy> oh - ok - will check it then :)
<knome> smartboyhw, resolved
<smartboyhw> knome: Yay
<smartboyhw> knome: You mean the documentation or the build errors?
<knome> the documentation edit conflict
<smartboyhw> Ah. How about ISO build errors?:)
<knome> i'm not able to resolve those.
<smartboyhw> Uh oh
<smartboyhw> knome: Sorry for asking, then who is able to resolve it?:)
<elfy> knome: not sure that Keryx should be on http://dagobah.princessleia.com/Xubuntu/12.10/Installing%20packages%20without%20an%20Internet%20connection?action=edit&line=1 - well out of date it seems
<elfy> http://dagobah.princessleia.com/Xubuntu/12.10/Installing%20packages%20without%20an%20Internet%20connection
<elfy> I mean 
<smartboyhw> Also a strange bit: Who can add their names in http://dagobah.princessleia.com/Xubuntu/12.10/Credits%20and%20License ?
<knome> elfy, keryx is mentioned in the ubuntu docs, so i added it there
<elfy> ok - perhaps it shouldn't be there either though :)
<smartboyhw> This one: http://dagobah.princessleia.com/Xubuntu/12.10/Getting%20to%20know%20your%20desktop%20environment It is a bit too short.
<elfy> knome: you want me to fill in some detail for it ?
<knome> elfy, try starting with what's on help.ubuntu.com and see if needs updating
<elfy> ok
<smartboyhw> Actually I want to say that just now I added the lines from help.ubuntu.com and saved it (keryx), hopefully elfy won't kill me
<mr_pouit> knome: of course. You order, I upload :P
<ochosi> hey mr_pouit 
<mr_pouit> hey!
<ochosi> i think i asked about this before, but do you have any clue what would be needed for gtk-greeter to support compositing/transparency?
<mr_pouit> a window manager probably :>
<ochosi> hmm
<ochosi> would it be an option to use xfwm4 there?
<knome> mr_pouit, hehe :)
<knome> bbl
<smartboyhw> ?
<holstein> bbl = be back later
<smartboyhw> OK
<pleia2> smartboyhw: please don't create a HowardChan page on this wiki, it's really only for xubuntu edits (and when you create such a page it sends up a flag in my spam system)
<pleia2> (I'm deleting the page, caught it before I deleted your account)
<smartboyhw> Ok.
<smartboyhw> Sorry mate
<smartboyhw> Never do it again:) Don't delete my account
<smartboyhw> pleia2: PLEASE
<pleia2> I said I didn't
<smartboyhw> :)
<smartboyhw> Thanks pleia2
<bluesabre> This line in the documentation sounds fibby.  "TheÂ SwfdecÂ andÂ GnashÂ players are not proprietary and so are supported. You may also find them to be more stable (cause fewer problems) than the official player."
<ochosi> i'm also uncertain whether it's true (cause fewer problems)
<ochosi> i think they just provide you with a different set of problems...
<bluesabre> Yeah
<pleia2> also makes us sound like we hate open source "not proprietary? we only use awesome proprietary stuff!"
<pleia2> but yeah, all wrong
<ochosi> bluesabre: btw, what would've been really nice is finding out whether USC's back/forward icons can be separately themed
<ochosi> bluesabre: our current icons don't work that well there..
<bluesabre> You don't think so?
<bluesabre> I don't think they look bad
<ochosi> ?
<ochosi> oh ok
<ochosi> hmm
<ochosi> dunno, for one, they're scaled...
<bluesabre> http://imagebin.org/226604
<bluesabre> ?
<ochosi> yes, the arrows are kinda blurry
<bluesabre> A little bit
<bluesabre> That was the first time I noticed
<ochosi> not blurry: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-08312012-053355pm.php
<ochosi> yippie! i noticed something bluesabre didn't notice! :)
<bluesabre> lol
<bluesabre> You're the graphic designer, after all
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> i guess now you're really part of the team, the blindness starts ;)
<ochosi> another slap in the face of all real graphic designers :p
<bluesabre> lol
<bluesabre> Hey, all the "real" graphic designers just make things look like Mac
<ochosi> haha
<ochosi> nice one
<bluesabre> I wonder if we should really have information about how to rip DVDs in http://dagobah.princessleia.com/Xubuntu/12.10/Movies%2C%20DVDs%20and%20Videos
<Unit193> s/rip/backup/ and it's a real reason.  DVDs can easily get messed up, and more people have larger HDDs.
<bluesabre> Yeah
<bluesabre> At least I removed the part about ripping to ogg making the videos royalty and patent free
<Unit193> But I'm just giving input, not any sort of end word. :P
<Sysi> we should maybe add "How to start application in specific workspace" to FAQ or docs
<Unit193> GridCube: Idea ----^
<Sysi> it seems to be somewhat commonly wanted feature
<bluesabre> That might be a good idea :)
<GridCube> :) good, adding it to my 12.10-faq.txt
<bluesabre> Anybody want to replace F-Spot in our documentation with Shotwell?
<bluesabre> Since Shotwell seems to have largely killed it off
<GridCube> arent we using gThumb?
<Unit193> By default.
<bluesabre> Oh yeah
<bluesabre> Anybody want to replace F-Spot in our documentation with gThumb?
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> gThumb doesn't like SVGs btw
<bluesabre> Makes me sad
<Sysi> GridCube: maybe both possibilities, wmctrl and devilspie since they give some different functionality
#xubuntu-devel 2012-09-01
<pressman57> Hi all. I'm interested in iso testing but can't find the page for the daily build. Can someone give me a link?
<pnarciso> http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily/current/
<pnarciso> that is the link for alternate
<pnarciso> this is for normal http://mirrors.fe.up.pt/pub/xubuntu/daily-live/current/
<pressman57> thanks. Is running it in vbox useful or is a hdd install better?
<pnarciso> it all depends
<pnarciso> if you want to test the only this OS, vbox would do, but ig you want to test hardware compatibility, installing it is better
<pressman57> pnarciso, my hardware is pretty generic so I think I'll put it in vbox. Will apt-get update/upgrade keep me up with the current build once it's installed?
<pnarciso> yes, or you could use the included update application
<pressman57> cool. I used xubuntu years ago- went to gentoo then arch- now i'm back. good distro.
<pnarciso> I agree, very good distro, and stable. Unity in Ubuntu is a big mess
<pressman57> yeah unity is a fiasco
<pressman57> gnome 3 with extensions kind of works but it's bloated
<pnarciso> gnome 3 layout does not look very different to me compared to unity, but it's more stable
<pnarciso> I like PC layouts, not phone layouts :)
<pressman57> pnarciso, true that
<pressman57> you talk about a mess....have you tried windows 8?
<pnarciso> yes :)
<pressman57> It will be just the thing to get linux on the desktop
<pressman57> in the mainstream
<pressman57> imho
<ochosi> since it's weekend there are probably not so many of the other devs around, but testing is always highly appreciated
<pnarciso> Linux is still much complicated to the average user
<ochosi> unfortunately i don't do it enough myself to give you good guidance with how and where to report what
<ochosi> except obvious bugs, you can report them on launchpad
<pnarciso> xubuntu 12.10 for the most part has been stable, bu I had a couple of hard freezes, which I think could be related to nvidia drivers, but I can't tell for sure because nothing shows on the logs. 
<pnarciso> Yesterday my desktop froze and restart itself
<pressman57> download is finished...gonna fire it up. Thanks for the info
<pnarciso> so, how is going the bug crushing?
<ochosi> fine, i think atm everyone is exhausting because we worked hard towards UI freeze
<pnarciso> so, UI will become like it is now in daily build?
<pnarciso> or there are changes that weren't introduced yet through update?
#xubuntu-devel 2012-09-02
<bluesabre> Well, I posted to #ubuntu-unity.  Maybe I'll get some hits
<knome> what :)
<bluesabre> "Hello everyone.  I'm trying to port the new indicator-messages back to gtk2.  Is there a straightforward method to get the GtkActions from the GtkActionGroup?"
<bluesabre> for the indicator-messages
<bluesabre> It's a long shot
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> Unless.
<bluesabre> Do you know, knome?
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> fortunately, nope
<bluesabre> :(
<knome> :P
<knome> sorry
<bluesabre> lol
<bluesabre> It's ok
<bluesabre> It's so much easier to hack on things in python
<bluesabre> Since you can print anything
<knome> :)
<knome> \o/
<knome> ohhhh yesss
 * knome has unravelled the secrets of including inline images within docbook markup
<bluesabre> Woo!
<knome> we will need a bugfix upload for the doclooks though
<bluesabre> btw, knome, want to review my changes on this page (new version on top, old version towards the bottom)?  I'll trash the old stuff with your go-ahead...  http://dagobah.princessleia.com/Xubuntu/12.10/Photos%20and%20cameras
<bluesabre> Basically, I replaced all the F-Spot specific stuff with gThumb
<knome> hmmh. i'm thinking "printing" and "sharing" are thinge we could simply link to
<knome> i mean, basic printing stuff ok
<knome> but from "printer settings" onward, i'm not sure
<bluesabre> Yeah, I'm not a fan of the whole printer settings section
<knome> so let's look what it looks after dropping that, and the shared, and the old stuff
<knome> that's the go-ahead ^ :P
<bluesabre> cool
<bluesabre> btw, most annoying 12.10 bug right now = https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gpointing-device-settings/+bug/1044870
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1044870 in gpointing-device-settings (Ubuntu) "Edge Scrolling not working in Xubuntu 12.10" [Undecided,New]
<knome> not with a touchpad with two-finger scrolling :)
<bluesabre> lucky :P
<bluesabre> So, you want me to discard the printer settings stuff, right?
<knome> well yeah, don't you agree?
<bluesabre> Yes, just want to make sure :D
<bluesabre> What about the Advanced Photo Printing?
<knome> i'd drop that too.
<bluesabre> Good
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> we can link to similar topics on the internet
<bluesabre> Instantly cleaner
<knome> doesn't gthumb have rotate stuff?
<knome> there's still that "sharing your photos" too
<bluesabre> gthumb has rotate in the edit menu
 * bluesabre makes sure thats up to date
<knome> yeah
<knome> don't point to gimp... ;)
<bluesabre> Everyone should use gimp ;)
<knome> hah
<knome> well, not for rotating photos
<knome> bluesabre, what's the non-USC path to software sources?
<bluesabre> 12.10?
<bluesabre> Settings Manager -> Software Sources
<knome> yup, thx
<knome> http://dagobah.princessleia.com/Xubuntu/12.10/Upgrading%20from%20an%20older%20version%20of%20Xubuntu
<knome> does 2. make sense?
<knome> does the software sources dialog as for a pass?
<bluesabre> Not until you try to change a setting
<knome> mm
<bluesabre> I was surprised to see today that our daily live 64bit is ~60mb over
<bluesabre> Then I was more surprised when it didn't boot :(
<knome> HUH?
<knome> 60MB?
<bluesabre> 759 MB
<bluesabre> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/20120901/
<knome> :<
 * knome broke something
<bluesabre> lol
<knome> the docs aren't building here
<knome> bluesabre, https://code.launchpad.net/~knome/+junk/xubuntu-docs updated, if you want to have a look
<bluesabre> knome, make fails, lots of warnings :)  http://paste.ubuntu.com/1180750/
<bluesabre> (on 12.04 atm)
<knome> ah, of course
<knome> does it still build it?
<bluesabre> Doesn't seem like it
<knome> just a sec
<knome> pull again
<knome> that will give errors, but it shouldn't stop building
<knome> bazaar.launchpad.net/~knome/+junk/xubuntu-docs/view/head:/desktop-guide/migrating-and-upgrading/C/migrating-and-upgrading.xml
<knome> that's probably something you want to look at as source
<bluesabre> built this time
<knome> entities (&entity;) are defined at http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~knome/+junk/xubuntu-docs/view/head:/desktop-guide/libs/xubuntu.ent
<bluesabre> oh, that's cool
<knome> and, that's basically it
<knome> the previous link has some examples how to point to gui labels and stuff
<knome> and the xrefs (in the built html, the links with ???)
<knome> those will start to work as soon as we create sections or chapters with their id's
<knome> <listitem><para><xref linkend="guide-desktop"/></para></listitem>
<knome> so once <chapter id="guide-desktop"> exists..
<knome> it will link there :)
<bluesabre> Awesome
<bluesabre> It's a much cleaner look than before
<knome> yeah, definitely
<knome> so maybe if you have time when we start hacking on the docbook... ;)
<bluesabre> I might.
<knome> yeah
<bluesabre> Depends if I start to get anywhere on indicator-messages
<knome> i will definitely be working with it.
<bluesabre> So far, I'm stumped
<knome> mmh :/
<bluesabre> If only mr_pouit were around to fix everything... :D
<knome> haha
<knome> i think i'm off to bed
<knome> 6am soon
<bluesabre> Wowza
<bluesabre> I've been complaining and its not even AM here
<knome> haha, well, it's weekend + entrepreneur + foss stuff needs to be done..
<bluesabre> Well, have a good night knome!
<smartboyhw> knome: A question before sleep:) Can i?
<knome> can you what?
<knome> ask ahead if that's what you're asking
<smartboyhw> Can I ask a question I mean:)
<smartboyhw> Is it that using docbook to edit the documentation is better than to use the browser to edit?
<knome> no.
<smartboyhw> Oh
<knome> docbook is the format we will need to convert the documentation from the wiki when it is finished
<knome> convert the documentation TO from...
<smartboyhw> ah
<knome> so nothing to worry about. except for me.
<smartboyhw> HAHAHAHA. Good night knome
<smartboyhw> Have a good sleep:_
<knome> night
<knome> see you all later
<smartboyhw> Bye bye
<Unit193> Good night, knome.
<micahg> gah, live images 759/733, seems something new snuck in...
 * micahg will take a look later tonight to see if it's fixable
<smartboyhw> HAHAHA
<micahg> unfortunately, everything looks normal :(
<micahg> oh, right, llvm added ~7MB at least
<len-live> Just wondering if xubuntu is having a problem with duplicate desktop icons for removable storage devices in the last few days?
<len-live> I am testing ubuntustudio which does have this bug #1044896. Not sure if it is something with xfce4.10 or something just with studio
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1044896 in xorg (Ubuntu) "desktop shows removable storage devices twice" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1044896
<micahg> len-live: can you provide a screenshot pleasE?
<smartboyhw> micahg: Ask len-dt now:)
<pleia2> doesn't mention us, but :) http://www.linux.com/learn/tutorials/624056:xfce-410-the-sane-linux-desktop
<smartboyhw> pleia2: I'm stunned they didn't mention xubuntu
<pleia2> why? there are a lot of xfce-based distros :)
<smartboyhw> ;) But I think ours was the most famous
<pleia2> well we haven't even released a stable version with 4.10 yet
<smartboyhw> Ah yes. That's why
<smartboyhw> Silly me
<smartboyhw> pleia2: You know where astraljava has been? Haven't seen him for at least 10 days or so:(
<pleia2> I haven't heard from him (haven't looked either)
<smartboyhw> ...
<fmolinero> Hi
<ochosi> hullo
<smartboyhw> Hello fmolinero
<smartboyhw> \o ochosi too
<fmolinero> I try to submit a test result but I got a drupal error
<fmolinero> Notice: Undefined index: qatracker_result in qatracker_user_results_form_validate() (line 618 of /srv/drupal-qa-tracker/www/bzr/new/modules/qatracker/user/qatracker.user.results.php).
<fmolinero> Every failure needs to have at least one bug associated with it.
<fmolinero> ??
<smartboyhw> fmolinero: You DO need a bug
<fmolinero> No
<fmolinero> The test was OK
<smartboyhw> So did you make it a passed testcase?
<fmolinero> I tciked "pased"
<smartboyhw> Oh, that's weird
<fmolinero> yes
<smartboyhw> GIve me a screenshot of the result you are trying to hand in
<fmolinero> OK, wait
<len-dt> micahg, I will post screen shots when I can. However there is indication that vanilla shows the same thing on unity.
<len-dt> Unity uses a different  file manager for it's desktop so maybe gvfs is doing funny things.
<ochosi> len-dt: strange, i can't reproduce that with my vbox at all
<len-dt> It may be a difference in config from xubuntu to ubuntustudio
<ochosi> hm right
<len-dt> That was why I asked here first :)
<len-dt> I was thinking there was a change in xfce 4.10 that US has not yet accounted for
<ochosi> you said only external drives were shown twice?
<len-dt> Yes
<len-dt> Actually it is "removeable" drives which includes internal drives that are not used
<len-dt> (or mounted)
<ochosi> what happens if you go to xfdesktop's settings and disable showing external drives all-together there?
<len-dt> Then I only have one set of removable drives showing.
<ochosi> i.e. it works that way
<len-dt> BTW this is on the studio live Session from the ISO. unity is broken just now so I can't install
<ochosi> aha
<ochosi> but why unity, is US planning to use unity?
<len-dt> No, it is one of the responses I got from the bug report
<len-dt> Someone else has seen the same thing in unity
<ochosi> hard to imagine the two would be related, but who knows..
<ochosi> i'm not even sure xfdesktop uses gio or gvfs at all, it's rather old
<len-dt> That is why I was thinking gvfs
<len-dt> I don't know either
<ochosi> you could take a look at the settings-editor after changing the option in xfdesktop to not show external media
<ochosi> just to see whether there's some oddity in xfconf
<len-dt> I was just trying to think what else it could be
<ochosi> are you using greybird as default theme atm?
<len-dt> I will try that when I have time to test the ISO again. I have an appointment this morning (Gig)
<len-dt> yes greybird
<len-dt> But it has much more blue in it these days
<ochosi> i also managed to make blackbird usable for the first time
<ochosi> you can also give that a shot
<ochosi> it has the problems of a mixed (i.e. dark/bright) theme, but it looks nice and is closer to the old US theme than greybird
<len-dt> Personally I like the extra blue, It makes it easier to see which window is focused
<ochosi> thanks :)
<len-dt> I will try blackbird then
<ochosi> yeah, even if it's just for fun ;)
<ochosi> feedback appreciated, but since we're past UI freeze i'll only be able to fix critical bugs
<len-dt> I don't think too many of our team are looking at the ISOs right now so I am not getting comments on my changes even
<ochosi> hmm, sorry to hear
<len-dt> Gives me a lot of freedom :)
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> good, always look on the bright side :)
<len-dt> Anyway, thankyou for the help. I need to get going
<ochosi> sure
<ochosi> sorry i couldn't help for real
<greg_> Hi there. I've got 12.10 running in virtual box, found the checklist to generate a report and don't know where to file it. Anyone have the link?
<GridCube> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
<greg_> cool. thanks
#xubuntu-devel 2013-08-26
<bluesabre> micahg: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/catfish/+bug/1216741
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1216741 in catfish (Ubuntu) "Please update catfish on saucy to 0.8.0" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<bluesabre> Please let me know if you need additional details.
<micahg> bluesabre: can I get a Debian dir debdiff?
<micahg> bluesabre: also, your changelog doesn't log all the debian/control changes
<bluesabre> micahg: debian is out of date, I have a sponsored package sitting on mentors for 0.6.4 that has gone ignored, didn't know if you wanted to get this into xubuntu before FF because debian might take a while.  Going to get 0.8.0 onto mentors tonight most likely.  Will also update with the additional debian/control changes
<knome> bluesabre, re: what?
<bluesabre> knome: ?
<ochosi> :D
<knome> bluesabre, 0.6.4, 0.8.0 ?
<ochosi> catfish
<knome> :P
<knome> okay
<bluesabre> stable -> stable
<knome> yeah, wondering about *what* it was about
<bluesabre> ah
<ochosi> bluesabre: btw, catfish really really rocks...
 * knome read "sucks" :P
<bluesabre> lol
<ochosi> making a simple xfce-panel-plugin for that would be awesome
<bluesabre> (and not so simple most likely)
<ochosi> possible, no idea how easy it is to run an app without decoration and position it accordingly
<bluesabre> not too difficult
<ochosi> anyway, let's first finalize parole
<bluesabre> micahg: just uploaded a new debdiff with better changelog
<elfy> anyone got any idea what's going on with indicator-sound - will it get fixed before we release 13.10 that is - seems a bit silly to have something in the panel with one working indicator in it
<bluesabre> not sure, last comment seemed like they were working on it, but the workaround was sufficient.  Should we just ship that workaround?
<elfy> I guess if we have to do that we will have to
<bluesabre> its a bug, so we can ship the fix later in the game if needed
<elfy> yep
<knome> hey elfy 
<elfy> hi knome 
<bluesabre> knome, micahg: for reference: https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-sound/+bug/1208204
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1208204 in indicator-sound (Ubuntu) "indicator-sound no longer functions with xfce4-indicator-plugin" [Low,Triaged]
<knome> aha
<knome> bluesabre, want me to fix it?
 * knome ROFL
<bluesabre> yes
<knome> haha
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> expect a patch to land in september
<knome> 2023
<bluesabre> sounds legit
<elfy> I never understand how they mark duplicates - how is it that the bug I reported is a duplicate of one that go reported later
<elfy> but it is launchpad :p
<knome> elfy, see the right-hand side sidebar in LP
<knome> elfy, "Mark as duplicate"
<knome> elfy, (bit above the duplicates list)
<bluesabre> better write a blog post about that knome
<knome> bluesabre, hah
<knome> bluesabre, you think? :P
<elfy> knome: I'm not that worried about it :)
<bluesabre> definitely
<knome> ha
<knome> elfy, well good to know anyway
<elfy> yea - I'd never noticed that beforehand :)
<knome> the thing that bothers me a bit about launchpad is that some features can't be done "both ways"
<knome> eg the duplicates
<knome> you have to go to the bug that is the duplicate
<knome> there is no way to go to the "main bug" and mark any bug a duplicate of that
<knome> same was for linking bugs to branches, which is even more weird
<bluesabre> for duplicates, that makes sense to me
<knome> kind of...
<bluesabre> almost forces you to read the bug description
<knome> :P
<knome> but the branches stuff was weirder
<bluesabre> for linking to branches, yeah, I agree there should be a way to do it from the branch
<knome> also because you have to type the branch name rather than type a bug number
<ochosi> elfy: indicator-application isn't only for one app, it's for all apps that use indicators but don't have a separate package for it. iirc pidgin uses that (but as i don't use pidgin i wouldn't know for sure)
<ochosi> but i agree that the sound indicator needs to be fixed
<ochosi> it's one of the more useful ones
<elfy> ochosi: add by default showing on elfy's panel then :p
<elfy> pidgin doesn't show up there by the way
<ochosi> aha
<ochosi> i think it used to
<ochosi> does it use a trayicon now?
<ochosi> guess you better ask a pidgin user (like bluesabre)
<elfy> I just booted it - doesn't show up anywhere here
<elfy> but that's all beside the point, I was more worried about the sound indicator being broken - but bluesabre put my mind at restr
<GridCube> knome, i've updated the wiki you made with the desktop of the week proposals
<ochosi>  \o/ gtk3 indicators are working in my panel!
<ochosi> (and it's a gtk2 xfce panel)
<ochosi> knome, micahg, bluesabre, mr_pouit ^
<elfy> I assume that's good then ... 
<ochosi> it's extremely good :)
<pleia2> \o/
<elfy> :)
<ochosi> we'll see whether it's too late for 13.10 and what micahg thinks about it
<knome> ochosi, :)
<ochosi> knome: got a working messaging-menu again :)
<knome> good
<elfy> ochosi: woohoo :)
<ochosi> it seems the indicators would only look fine with our themes (as they'd require extra theme patches)
<ochosi> that's the price we have to be willing to pay if we want gtk3 indicators in our gtk2 panel
<ochosi> micahg, bluesabre, knome ^
<knome> yep, but since the patch would be pretty much xubuntu-specific as well, i don't think that's a huge con
<ochosi> yup, there's some truth to that
<Unit193> Just have to know that not all users use stock, but broken vs working, I'd sure take working.  How bad would it look unpatched?  (And I'm guessing it's something I can copy too. ;) )
<ochosi> it's just an additional .css file that you have to adjust and add to your include-list
<GridCube> !es
<ubottu> En la mayorÃ­a de los canales de Ubuntu, se habla sÃ³lo en inglÃ©s. Si busca ayuda en espaÃ±ol entre al canal #ubuntu-es; escriba "/join #ubuntu-es" (sin comillas) y presione intro.
<GridCube> ok
<ochosi> Unit193: we could add it to an FAQ and blog about it
<Unit193> GridCube: It just needs to be dropped, so it'll change when someone changes !es
<Unit193> ochosi: Sure.
<GridCube> Unit193, yes, i dont know how to do that tho
#xubuntu-devel 2013-08-27
<bluesabre> pidgin uses a system tray icon, enable it from preferences
<bluesabre> ochosi: yay for gtk3 panel stuffs!
<bluesabre> knome: xubuntu-icon-theme now builds correctly in the daily ppa
<knome> i'm officially away, but thanks
<knome> why does twitter have to lag so much
<veridiam> greets
<bluesabre> micahg: trying to get mugshot into debian, but the ITP is taking forever, do you thik you could get it into ubuntu if I create a bug with the source.changes file?  Only asking since FF is tomorrow
<bluesabre> *think
<smartboyhw> bluesabre, FF is the day after tomorrow, to be exact
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> still, getting a bit close for comfort :)
<bluesabre> since debian sponsorship is unlikely to happen within 24 hours
<smartboyhw> bluesabre, well, then you should get it into Ubuntu first
<bluesabre> yup, hence why I am pinging micahg :D
<bluesabre> knome, micahg: https://code.launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/xubuntu-default-settings/keyboard-shortcuts/+merge/182352
<bluesabre> the above merge adds additional keyboard shortcuts for hardware keys
<knome> approved
<bluesabre> micahg: updated https://code.launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/xubuntu-default-settings/lightdm-gtk-greeter-updates/+merge/177959
<knome> micahg, i'm just reminding you that FF is on the day after tomorrow
<knome> micahg, want to make sure you either upload stuff that's pending or tell you can't, so we can look for other people to upload for us
<micahg> knome: I plan on spending a few hours tonight sorting things out and uploading
<knome> micahg, great to hear that :)
<ochosi> micahg: awesome!
<ali1234> i heard there's a way to make gtk3 indicators work in xfce? I'd like to help testing this as it's the main reason i'm using gnome fallback instead of xubuntu right now
<ochosi> ali1234: you need to build a few things from source
<ochosi> if you PM me your email address i can send you the instructions i wrote up
<ali1234> no problem, sent
<ochosi> ok, might take a few mins...
<ali1234> ochosi: this is building xfce-panel against gtk3 method, right?
<ochosi> the panel itself will remain gtk2, but it will accept both gtk2 and gtk3 plugins
<ali1234> is it necessary to uninstall the distro packages for each thing i build, or does /usr/local auto-override?
<ochosi> the latter
<ochosi> /usr/local has the advantage of letting you uninstall things in a clean way again
<ochosi> but not all plugins might show up, only internal ones and ones you install (or symlink) there
<ali1234> is that why indicator-plugin is rebuilt, or is there some patch which is required in it?
<ochosi> indicator-plugin doesn't support gtk3 by default
<ochosi> and it didn't at all before the 1.0 release iirc
<ali1234> ah yes, i see where the gtk3 branch was merged
<GridCube> knome, :) remember to update the website to add the desktop of the week and inform pleia2 when you do so she can socialmedialize it P:
<ali1234> ochosi: does indicator-plugin need autogen.sh --enable-gtk3?
<Unit193> knome: I don't think mich or puit (don't remember which) was thinking if we didn't land .12 in Saucy, they didn't think there was enough testing for T, or am I mistaken?
<ochosi> ali1234: nope, otherwise i'd have added that ;)
<ali1234> ok, just checking :)
<knome> GridCube, ta.
<ochosi> ali1234: sure, i almost expected that because it's the only component that doesn't need that
<knome> Unit193, i disagree with them though.
<ali1234> i'm wondering what it would take to get this in a ppa
<ochosi> ali1234: someone who has time to do the packaging...
<ali1234> hello
<knome> ali1234, right
<knome> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
<ali1234> ok, so given that the sound indicator works correctly on ubuntu, what do i report the bug against?
<knome> ali1234, also, http://xubuntu.org/contribute/qa/#testing
<ali1234> lol, the @finding the right package@ looks like a link, bt isn't
<knome> how so?
<knome> it is.
<knome> links to: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/FindRightPackage
<ali1234> not here. here it's just orange underlined text
<knome> right, on the tracker
<knome> ali1234, the tracker bug is fixed. recheck.
<ali1234> nice
<ali1234> however, this bug is xubuntu specific
<knome> sure
<knome> then tell it's xubuntu-specific
<ali1234> sure. which package do i report it against though?
<knome> i'd say sound-indicator, and you can also mark xfce4-panel as affected by the bug
<ali1234> it's going to be indicator-sound-gtk2 right? since i haven't installed the gtk3 stuff yet
<knome> i assume that's correct
<knome> also check if there isn't a bug already
<knome> that bug is known, but i don't know if it is reported
<ali1234> i've reported similar bugs on previous releases
<ali1234> just looking for them
<knome> it's possible it'll be broken for 13.10, but we are looking for a solution or other at least for 14.04
<ali1234> is it specifically caused by the gtk2 indicator being old and broken?
<ali1234> if not, i can't really understand why it doesn't work
<knome> other people are more qualified to answer that question than me
<Unit193> Can't we say "API compatibility problems" and pretend to know and sound smart?  (No, I don't  know either, but as releases go, it tends to get less and less usable/breaking more and more.)
<knome> it is something like that.
<ali1234> well at least that muting bug is fixed
<ali1234> (the last one i reported)
<ali1234> wow gimp is in the livecd. this makes me happy for some reason
<ali1234> done, bug 1217566
<ubottu> bug 1217566 in xfce4-panel (Ubuntu) "Sound indicator menu is empty on Xubuntu daily live image" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1217566
<knome> ali1234, and did you link that to a ISO testing report?
<ali1234> no, because i have no idea how to make one of those
<ali1234> i can;t actually do extensive testing with the iso because nouveau hangs my computer after about 10 minutes of use
<ali1234> yes, it's a known bug
<knome> ali1234, i can go through it with you if you have time
<ali1234> i'm not going to be testing the iso regularly. i'm just going to install it and use it normally
<knome> ali1234, would be very helpful if you could install even once per milestone and report results
<knome> and worth your and our time
<knome> just filing bugs is good, but it would be much more useful if they were reported along with an ISO test
<ali1234> ok then, what do i have to do?
<ali1234> i've done checkbox testing before
<knome> let me grab my mouse and the power adapter, then finish a mail (few mins), and i'll be with you. ok?
<ali1234> they complained i took the instructions too literally :P
<ali1234> no problem. if i disappear my computer froze and i'll be back
<knome> okay
<knome> ali1234, i assume you have a launchpad account
<ali1234> ok, i'm logged in and at the section for xubuntu live image
<knome> great
<ali1234> yeah :)
<knome> so yes, select a milestone, then select a xubuntu product (amd64 or i386), then any test you wish to run
<ali1234> so i see "add a test result"
<knome> after you've selected that, you'll be directed a page such as this: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/270/builds/52205/testcases/1301/results
<ali1234> yeah i'm on that exact page :)
<knome> if you click on the "testcase" text, you should see complete instructions on running the test
<knome> the instructions are long, but basically running through the installation
<knome> and telling you what you should expect to happen
<ali1234> they're short for the live image, actually, they just say "test everything"
<ali1234> "All applications should function without error"
<knome> mhm, right
<knome> that's correct
<knome> also note that there's the download information links
<knome> so you should always be running the latest ISO
<ali1234> well i downloaded this iso about 2 hours ago
<knome> apart from milestones, those are rebuilt daily, so it's good to double-check
<ali1234> but not from that link. how can i check i'm on the right one?
<knome> try zsyncing
<ali1234> ...i'm on a live image
<knome> if you run the zsync command in the directory you have the ISO, it'll make sure you have the latest version
<knome> if not, it'll download the missing parts for you
<Unit193> ali1234: What's head /etc/apt/sources.list say?
<ali1234> Xubuntu 13.10 _Saucy Salamander_ - Alpha amd64 (20130827)
<knome> ali1234, on the testcase page itself, you can also see the "bugs to look for" list, which is basically bugs that others have reported against the same test - doesn't hurt to quickly go through them to know what you might be seeing
<knome> ali1234, and on the bottom of the page, the "add a test result" form to send the results
<ali1234> knome: are those bugs from this version, or from previous versions? should i try to reproduce and report if they're still present?
<knome> ali1234, if you don't have a hw profile url, you can just type your specs in the comment field
<knome> they are for this milestone, afaik
<ali1234> how do i get a hw profile?
<knome> ali1234, so yes, if you have the time, you should try to reproduce
<knome> ali1234, that's basically just any URL that has your hardware information. i think there has been some unified way to do that, let me find the link...
<knome> ali1234, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/HardwareProfile
<ali1234> i think i might have one... i from the checkbox tests?
<knome> ali1234, sounds correct
<ali1234> hmm ... i do, but i'm no sure if it is up to date
<ali1234> however, i see submissions under my fingerprint from that bug i just reported, so presumably it's the same
<ali1234> hmm wait that can't be right
<knome> ali1234, as i said, basically any link with your hardware specs will do, but we don't mind if you do it the way specified in the wikipage
<skellat> LP Bug 1217566 updated
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1208204 in indicator-sound (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1217566 indicator-sound no longer functions with xfce4-indicator-plugin" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1208204
<knome> skellat, thanks
<ali1234> this bug is already attached to the iso tracker
<skellat> Yep, and now it shows up as a duplicate which means dragging in the original which has about 5 duplicates
<knome> ali1234, no problem. descriptions can be upgraded and bugs marked duplicates. the ISO tracker can handle that.
<ali1234> yeah, just saying. do you still want me to do a report?
<skellat> Yes
<knome> ali1234, any ISO report helps, and even if the bug is filed, yes, you definitely should still list it
<ali1234> ok. i reported a dupe of this nm-applet bug too
<knome> ali1234, we don't want "unique" reports, we want reports of what you got.
<ali1234> knome: can i edit the report after submitting it to add more bugs?
<Noskcaj> I've fakesynced the latest version of cellmodem plugin, can someone tell me what i did wrong? https://code.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/ubuntu/saucy/xfce4-cellmodem-plugin/fakesync/+merge/182503
<knome> ali1234, yep.
<knome> ali1234, but make sure they are something that actually happened during that test, with that exact image.
<ali1234> ok, report sent
<ali1234> i'm rebooting into the installed image now, brb
<ochosi> wii ali1234 
<ali1234> wii?
<ochosi> sry, missed a / :)
<ochosi> you reported that orion bug right?
<ali1234> two, actually :P
<ali1234> but yes, that's me
<ochosi> ah
<ochosi> i only received a notification of the window-borders bug :)
<ochosi> ali1234: could you do a quick test for me?
<ali1234> sure
<ochosi> just to see whether the issue will be fixed in the next upload
<ochosi> could you download and extract https://github.com/shimmerproject/Orion/archive/master.zip to ~/.themes ?
<ochosi> (if the dir doesn't exist, just create it)
<ochosi> then switch gtk theme and window-manager theme to something else, and then back to Orion
<ochosi> (close any gtk3 apps you might have open)
<ochosi> then re-check both bugs
<ali1234> that doesn't seem to have made any difference at all
<ochosi> could you additionaly "sudo rm -r /usr/share/themes/Orion" just in case?
<ochosi> or move it to a different dir
<ali1234> i'll move it somewhere safe, but yeah
<ochosi> actually if you haven't renamed Orion-master to Orion...
<ali1234> wait, i messed this up
<ochosi> then you'll obviously have to change your theme to Orion-master :}
<ali1234> yes, it does indeed show as a different theme
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> that's fine to
<ali1234> window borders are fixed
<ochosi> no need to touch the other part then
<ochosi> good
<ali1234> and the gtk3 menus are fixed too :)
<ochosi> good
<ochosi> that's what i hoped/expected ;)
<ali1234> thanks :)
<ochosi> well thank you for both the bugreports and the immediate testing!
<ali1234> no, thank you - that's the fastest bug fix i've ever seen
<ali1234> (maybe it was already fixed, it's still the fastest response)
<ochosi> good to hear :)
<ali1234> i've got another one for you, shimmer-wallpapers this time
<ali1234> when it's installed, desktop settings takes *ages* to open, i think it's because of the svgs
<ochosi> hmyeah, there's a new xfdesktop release that should fix that, but i'm afraid we won't get it into this release as there are many things pending and not enough uploaders
<ali1234> is there a reason why xfce ignored /usr/share/background except for the xfce directory?
<bluesabre> micahg: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/catfish/+bug/1217615
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1217615 in catfish (Ubuntu) "Please update catfish on saucy to 0.8.1" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<bluesabre> Just fixed the latest bug, that should take care of things for a while there
<ochosi> ali1234: yeah, the whole wallpaper handling is changed in the update to xfdesktop, the current version sucks in many aspects (sorry)
<micahg> bluesabre: ok, will do tonight
<micahg> bluesabre: I'll take care of xubuntu-default-settings as well
<bluesabre> awesome
<ochosi> micahg: gmusicbrowser, gtk-theme-config?
<ochosi> oh, and thoughts on my lengthy email? :)
<bluesabre> micahg: I'm working on getting mugshot on mentors, when I fix the lintian bugs, would you be interested in directly uploading it to ubuntu?
<micahg> bluesabre: yeah, maybe, I need to talk to -release about that
<bluesabre> ok
<micahg> ochosi: gmusicbrowser, yes, gtk-theme-config I'll work out something with -release
<bluesabre> thanks micahg
<ochosi> micahg: thanks, gotta go sleep now
<ochosi> micahg: and just as a teaser, here's the gtk3 messaging menu in my gtk2 panel: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-08282013-015009am.php
#xubuntu-devel 2013-08-28
<bluesabre> Unit193: any idea how to fix binary-without-manpage lintian error?  I've added a mugshot.1 and added dh_installman to debian/rules
<micahg> bluesabre: for new upstream versions, a debian dir debdiff is useful so taht we insure using the proper upstream tarball
<bluesabre> micahg: just a debdiff on debian/ ?
<micahg> yeah
<micahg> though in this case it's just a changelog
 * micahg will just use that
<bluesabre> ok, I'll keep that in mind for future uploads
<skellat> micahg: Is it possible to upload the latest xubuntu-docs for saucy as well as the SRU for precise?
<micahg> let me see how far I get with the rest
<Unit193> bluesabre: ...Your rules file is weird.  Anywho, put an override in installman and that part should be good. (Unless I'm wrong, but tested working.)
<skellat> micahg: No problemo
 * skellat wanders off to see what the cat is crying about
<bluesabre> Unit193: yeah, its weird because I was getting an error which no google results answered
<Unit193> Had to install python-distutils-extra before -S would even work, sooo.....
<Unit193> What error?
<bluesabre> not sure, already forgot
<bluesabre> Unit193: this? http://dpaste.com/1358510/
 * bluesabre is still quite new to this
<Unit193> As the to manual, yes.  Can't be included with the application itself?
<micahg> ochosi: any progress on getting more shimmer patches accepted upstream into gmusicbrowser?
<micahg> ochosi: is there a rebased shimmer-layouts patch somewhere against 1.10?
<bluesabre> Unit193: yeah, I'll be adding that next
 * micahg is uploading gtk-theme-cnofig to mentors
<bluesabre> please do gtk-theme-config instead
<bluesabre> ;)
<micahg> https://mentors.debian.net/package/gtk-theme-config \o.
<bluesabre> o/
<bluesabre> you did that in a few minutes
<bluesabre> I've been working on mugshot for 2 days
<bluesabre> http://mentors.debian.net/package/mugshot
<micahg> I already had it ready :)
<Unit193> I pretended to help.
<micahg> I thought I didn't have a key, but I had that too
<bluesabre> keeping us in suspense :D
<bluesabre> Unit193 helped more than I worked
<bluesabre> because I would have struggled forever
<Unit193> I not nearly as good as Mica, I don't actually program. :P
<micahg> knome: I might have asked before, but do you have any objection to a Xubuntu packaging team on Alioth?
<micahg> I'd like to get anything that pkg-xfce won't take that's orphaned or owned by one of our uploaders under that
<micahg> we can be a model for other flavors :)
<bluesabre> +1
<micahg> bluesabre: looking at your settings merge now 
<bluesabre> cool
<bluesabre> you're on a roll!
<micahg> bluesabre: oh, hrm, was it just that one line for the keyboard, maybe I'll just squash the commits then, I thought it was more than that
 * micahg will brb in about 20 min
<bluesabre> yeah, the majority of the commit was updated comments template
<micahg> bluesabre: oh, in the future, a changelog entry would be useful as well
<micahg> bluesabre: want to add one quickly or should I just wing it?
<bluesabre> micahg: for clock & keyboard?
<micahg> yeah, for what you changed
<bluesabre> yeah, just a sec, I'll add a simple one
<bluesabre> micahg: pushed
<bluesabre> heading to bed now, if there are any other issues, let me know
<bluesabre> thanks micahg!
<bluesabre> oh, and let me know if theres anything you need for mugshot
<skellat> Grumble...LP Bug #1190406 is a package that is 2/3 broken now and though the remaining 1/3 still works it isn't the obvious use case based on the description.  I think it might be good to not seed this package for 13.10.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1190406 in pidgin-microblog (Ubuntu) "pidgin-microblog: Plugin is not Twitter API 1.1 Compliant" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1190406
<micahg> is there a new upstream version I can throw in quickly?
<micahg> bluesabre: please leave changelogs UNRELEASED in bzr so other things can be easily added
<micahg> I'm fixing this one
<bluesabre> oh, woops
<bluesabre> thanks micah
<micahg> done
<micahg> skellat: don't particularly want to fight with the SRU before bed, let's try another night
<skellat> skellat: Don't blame ya
<Unit193> micahg: PTS only had a patch about homepage, and no new upstream.  Good night.
<micahg> anything easy I've missed?
<skellat> I filed a merge to take a package off the seed so we're not shipping the broken thingy mentioned in LP Bug 1190406
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1190406 in pidgin-microblog (Ubuntu) "pidgin-microblog: Plugin is not Twitter API 1.1 Compliant" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1190406
<skellat> https://code.launchpad.net/~skellat/ubuntu-seeds/xubuntu.saucy/+merge/182538
<micahg> skellat: +1, taking a look
<micahg> I might have the package removed from saucy
<skellat> I'm also trying to engage with the Debian Maintainer to see what can be do
<micahg> http://code.google.com/p/microblog-purple/issues/detail?id=269
<skellat> Yeah, I'm the one who filed that!
<skellat> The StatusNet functionality still works so 1 out of 3 main components works.  Twitter access and Identica access no longer work.
<skellat> I'd say don't ship it by default but leave it in the archive if somebody really, really needs it for their independent StatusNet instance.
<skellat> I filed a similar merge for gilir to help Lubuntu too since Xubuntu and Lubuntu are the only ones seeding the package
<skellat> https://code.launchpad.net/~skellat/ubuntu-seeds/lubuntu.saucy/+merge/182539
<micahg> ok, I'll leave that for him
<Unit193> skellat: You filed a dupe. ;)
<Unit193> https://code.google.com/p/prpltwtr/issues/detail?id=88 the other project.
<skellat> Unit193: Yeah, but nobody in the competing project wanted to touch it with a bargepole
<skellat> Cameron Kaiser had to do a ton of refactoring to get ttytter to work right with Twitter API 1.1 to the point that he had to break StatusNet compatibility in the end
<skellat> And ttytter is written purely in Perl
<micahg> skellat: uploaded
 * micahg -> bed
<skellat> Goodnight micahg
<micahg> I forgot, I still have some seed hacking to do...
<micahg> not tonight though
 * skellat wanders off to get ready for bed
<ochosi> micahg: no, i spent a lot of time on getting more shimmer-patches into upstream and in the end the merge didn't happen / wasn't accepted. our stuff still works in the latest release, i'm also maintaining a kinda daily PPA with gmb from git with out patches so there shouldn't be a problem
<olbi> hello :)
<knome> olbi, next question is: what content?
<knome> we relatively recently updated it
<knome> i'm wondering if what you are thinking would be more suitable for the docs
<olbi> hmm, there isn't update about Xubuntu 12.04.3 LTS on site :] it could be add by me for example :)
<knome> so are you referring to news articles?
<olbi> yes, news that are very simple and you don't want to spent time for it
<olbi> you send me info and I add this or I found something
<knome> that's possible
<knome> i would say just be in touch with the developers
<olbi> yes, irc and mailing lists
<knome> you can draft news in pads or sth, and people with permissions can then publish them
<olbi> yes :)
<olbi> I'm at the cocpit, logged with Ubuntu ID
<knome> sent mail to -devel, team members please read
<bluesabre> D:
<bluesabre> Making us read an email that makes us read even more?
<knome> yeah ;)
<ochosi> yeah, sneaky bastard! :p
<knome> sneaky, aye?
<knome> it's not too long though
<knome> 5 minute thing if you use meld
<elfy> not going to have time to look - and I'm not going to be about for a meeting at 15:00
<knome> elfy, if you read the mail, you'll get a grasp what you should've read :)
<elfy> but if the only major thing is "only the Xubuntu team (LP ~xubuntu-team) should be able vote for a new project lead" that's fine by me
<knome> nothing fishy there, no unannounced changes :)
<knome> that's it
<knome> but we're probably not *voting* today anyway, so...:)
<elfy> knome: then you can have my proxy +1
<elfy> ok - ochosi doesn't need to witness my proxy +1 then :)
<knome> hehe
<bluesabre> except the line that says the XPL is now more of a dictator position
<bluesabre> ;)
<knome> O:)
<elfy> that's fine by me also bluesabre :)
<knome> well i'm checking if you are awake!
<bluesabre> haha
<knome> (also makes other changes pass easier)
<bluesabre> just one less thing we'll have to vote for in the future, so +1 here
<knome> (also, the XPL is kind of a dictator anyway, so...)
<elfy> :)
<knome> or can be.
<knome> that's up to the XPL and his personality.
<elfy> indeed
<ffio> where i can browse the source code for xubuntu ? searched in launchpad but it's not there for raring.
<knome> ffio, "the source code for xubuntu" is a rather abstract concept.
<knome> what are you looking for?
<ffio> knome: i wanted to browse the source code of xfce4 i feel like to contribute something.
<knome> http://git.xfce.org/ is all the upstream xfce source code
<ffio> so wanted to know the structure of xubuntu-desktop package and how it is organized. which dep it pulls etc etc..
<knome> apt-cache show xubuntu-desktop
<ffio> knome: if i want to change any of those depends where should i go ?
<knome> change in what way?
<ffio> i.e. i want to add or delete some depeds package.
<knome> in where?
<knome> are you saying you want to remaster a new ISO?
<ffio> under xubuntu-desktop
<knome> your question doesn't make sense as is
<ffio> knome: yeah 
<knome> !remastersys
<knome> !remaster
<ubottu> Interested in remastering the Ubuntu !LiveCD or !Alternate installer? See: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomization and https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InstallCDCustomization - Or use tools such as http://uck.sourceforge.net/ or http://linux.dell.com/wiki/index.php/DRU_Disc_Remastering_Utility
<ffio> knome: can i pm you ?
<knome> you can if you need to, but if you're just asking for further information on the same issue, it'd be better to ask on the channel
<ffio> ok
<smartboyhw> knome, um, I found http://thexubuntuzone.blogspot.hk/2013/08/xubuntu-will-be-upgrading-its-graphic.html
<smartboyhw> (from G+)
<smartboyhw> You'd better clarify...
<smartboyhw> ochosi, congrats on light-locker's release:)
<knome> smartboyhw, known. comments on G+ are disabled, the blog entry is very unclear so i see no reason to comment on that
<ochosi> smartboyhw: thanks
<skellat> knome: I am very likely to be a little late to the meeting as I have to pick Mom up from cardiac rehab.  I should be available by no later than 1515 UTC at the utmost worst.
<knome> skellat, no problem
<GridCube> the blog entry is vague at best
<OvenWerk1> GridCube: You are being excedingly gracious in that comment...
<smartboyhw> heh
<GridCube> i mean the title mentions xubutnu, and once in the first paragraph but then it talks about anything else
<knome> bluesabre, apparently new catfish broke xubuntu and ubuntu studio
<knome> OvenWerk1, ^
<Unit193> Hah.
<smartboyhw> knome, no
<smartboyhw> The version in the CD builds are 0.08.0
<smartboyhw> *0.8.0
<smartboyhw> The archive version is 0.8.1-0ubuntu1
<smartboyhw> So, not.
<knome> hey skaet :)
<smartboyhw> ^ rare visitor:P
<skaet> knome,  hiya knome, smartboyhw.  :-)  expect me around a bit more for the next couple of weeks.  :-)
<smartboyhw> knome, restarted a rebuild for Ubuntu Studio to check on 0.8.1
<smartboyhw> skaet, yeah, we miss you:P
<skaet> smartboyhw, thanks.
<smartboyhw> knome, 0.8.1 has fixed the issue
<smartboyhw> So, no need to worry;)
<knome> skaet, so do you have some release team duties this cycle? :)
<smartboyhw> knome, fidn the answer at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/ReleaseTaskSignup :)
<knome> smartboyhw, have you heard of the thing called "small talk"?
<smartboyhw> knome, um, I have heard of "smalltalk" as programming lang
 * knome suggests some reading for smartboyhw: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_talk
<smartboyhw> knome, sorry:P
<ali1234> i seem to have found a reproducable crash bug in the main menu
<skellat> knome: If I'm not back in time, you've got my proxy +1 on the changes so far to the Strategy Document.  If you could drop the bug handling item to the end it would be appreciated.
 * skellat heads out the door yet again
<knome> skellat, i'll do that.
 * elfy makes it back in time 
<knome> cool
<GridCube> meeting?
<knome> #startmeeting Xubuntu community meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Aug 28 15:00:10 2013 UTC.  The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<knome> #topic Items carried on
<knome> #action     ACTION: skellat to prepare blog article discussing updating & upgrading for users and why it is okay to do so 
<meetingology> ACTION: ACTION: skellat to prepare blog article discussing updating & upgrading for users and why it is okay to do so
<knome> huh, ok
<knome> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Action object at 0x322d510>
<knome> #action skellat to prepare blog article discussing updating & upgrading for users and why it is okay to do so 
<meetingology> ACTION: skellat to prepare blog article discussing updating & upgrading for users and why it is okay to do so
<GridCube> :D
<knome> brb, phone...
<GridCube> no prob
<knome> ok, i'm back
<knome> #topic Team updates
<knome> ochosi, bluesabre: did you have something?
<knome> others, micahg?
<knome> some uploading action at least i think
<knome> #info ochosi has been preparing an updated artwork package for uploading later
<GridCube> #info https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Marketing/Projects/DesktopOfTheWeek has been updated whit the first few desktops proposed
<knome> yeah...
<knome> #action knome to prepare the website for the desktop of the week
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to prepare the website for the desktop of the week
<knome> GridCube, if i have time after the meeting, i'll start on that right away.
<GridCube> we will keep moderating and accepting submissions, but if we start anouncing and all that we could start to make some noise in g+ and other social outlets
<GridCube> good nose
<GridCube> s/nose/noise
<knome> hehe
<GridCube> :D
<knome> micahg-work, wanted to send some updates, or should we move on?
<micahg-work> hrm?
<micahg-work> I didn't see the first part
<knome> ah
<knome> we're on team updates
<knome> did you do something during the week after last thu? :)
<micahg-work> Catfish 0.8.1 in last night (thanks bluesabre), dropped pidgin-microblog from the seeds since twitter is broke (thanks skellat), gtk-theme-config is on mentors awaiting sponsorship
<knome> micahg-work, can you prefix with #info so the bot picks it up? thanks
<micahg-work> #info Catfish 0.8.1 in last night (thanks bluesabre), dropped pidgin-microblog from the seeds since twitter is broke (thanks skellat), gtk-theme-config is on mentors awaiting sponsorship
<knome> do we need to do something for the gtk-theme-config to get it in before FF, or do you think it'll be picked up?
<micahg-work> yeah, I need to follow it through to make sure it's sync'd to Ubuntu
<knome> okay, thanks
<ochosi> knome: sorry, kinda on and off now
<knome> anything else?
<ochosi> true that, i prepared the artwork-upload
<knome> ochosi, if you could be on for like 5-10 mins, would be good...
<micahg-work> Was hoping that ochosi had a rebased patch for gmusicbrowser 1.1.10
<knome> ochosi, can you finish that ^ off for micahg-work today?
<micahg-work> I can do an artwork upload tonight
<ochosi> mr_pouit said he'll take care of it
<micahg-work> #info added clock and keyboard settings for greeter to our defaults (thanks bluesabre)
<micahg-work> ah, excellent
<GridCube>  :D thats awesome!
<knome> #action mr_pouit uploads the new artwork package later
<meetingology> ACTION: mr_pouit uploads the new artwork package later
<ochosi> micahg-work: are you sure that our patch needs to be modified? afaik it should still apply on top of gmb1.1.10
<knome> #nick mr_pouit 
<micahg-work> ochosi, it doesn't apply
<ochosi> micahg-work: strange, i'll take a look a little later today
<knome> ochosi, thanks!
<knome> #topic Announcements
<knome> #info No announcements.
<knome> #topic New and emerging items
<knome> #subtopic Inclusion of Xfce 4.11 components in Xubuntu 13.10 
<knome> so, we were in touch with lionel about these
<knome> and the bottom line was "you should be cautious", but he said it'd be okay to cherry-pick the display dialog if we had the time to do that
<knome> i'd really like that in, as well as the gtk3-indicators-on-gtk2-panel (which ochosi has been preparing)
<knome> any possibility we could squeeze them in?
<ochosi> that's micahg-work's call i guess :)
<knome> micahg-work, would you have time/any motivation to do that?
<ochosi> the icon-loading problem has been solved yesterday (if you remember the known issues list)
<knome> i've argumented for the display dialog before (i can reargument if needed, but would rather not to save time)
<micahg-work> yeah, I can see about 4.11, I'd like the gtk3 indicators on gtk2 panel patch so we can drop the gtk2 indicator stack (at least from our stuff) and get an extra 6 months of testing on that for the LTS
<knome> i don't think we need to pull in all of 4.11
<micahg-work> ochosi, I didn't see 2.0 of the indicator plugin
<knome> i'd really like the display dialog, and that's about all of my wishlist from 4.11 for now.
<micahg-work> knome, I wouldn't pull in all of 4.11, just the settings piece and the dialog (I forget which components those are ATM)
<knome> but that does need some cherry-picking
<knome> great
<ochosi> micahg-work: yeah, for some reason the download-tag hasn't appeared on git.xfce yet, but there's a release-email. i can ask andrzejr what went wrong with the tarball
<ochosi> (as soon as he's online)
<knome> #action micahg to see about 4.11 settings/display-dialog and the panel patch for gtk3 indicators in gtk2 panel
<meetingology> ACTION: micahg to see about 4.11 settings/display-dialog and the panel patch for gtk3 indicators in gtk2 panel
<ochosi> there's even a "preparing for release"-commit (http://git.xfce.org/panel-plugins/xfce4-indicator-plugin/commit/?id=6570cb8d49105800b57c6aeabd069d19f722ffe9)
<micahg-work> ochosi, do you know if it'll work with stock 4.10 in case we decide to revert the patch?
<knome> want to dig deeper in this issue, or shall we move along?
<ochosi> micahg-work: i'm not sure, i haven't tested the 2.0 plugin with the 4.10 panel from master
<ochosi> at least it's not designed to work, but it could
<micahg-work> hrm :(
<ochosi> we also need libxfce4ui compiled against gtk3 (so we have gtk2 + gtk3 of that lib)
<ochosi> sry folks, i gotta run, i'll be back a bit later
<micahg-work> well, then only panel change we're planning is the gtk3 patch, the rest is 4.10
<ochosi> feel free to ping me if you need more infos on that
<ochosi> yeah, the rest remains 4.10
<knome> #action micahg and ochosi to work on the panel patch together
<meetingology> ACTION: micahg and ochosi to work on the panel patch together
<ochosi> only the panel has to be built from the andrzejr/wrapper3 branch
<ochosi> bbl
<knome> #subtopic Strategy Document reviewing 
<knome> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2013-August/009312.html
<knome> anybody has questions about that (we'll vote later, on the next meeting)
<elfy> no questions from me
<GridCube> i don't particularly fancy the changes on who can vote
<GridCube> even if -users don't vote they should still have the option to.
<alpacaherder> Nothing looked objectionable in the diff shown in Launchpad
<knome> for what reason?
<GridCube> democracy
<knome> but *buntu* isn't a democracy
<GridCube> no, but we do serve our users
<knome> sure... and i'd say the team knows best who to pick as the new project lead
<knome> if we let the users pick, they can pick any arbitrary person with the coolest or shortest nick, for example
<micahg-work> +1 to the vote change
<knome> (like "knome")
<micahg-work> but -team needs to be maintainable by more than just the XPL
<GridCube> probably yes, in any case the proposed leader has to be a known person from -team
<Unit193> I'd think you should clearify what -team is, no?
<micahg-work> meritocracy + checks and balances
<GridCube> well yes i would agree to that micahg-work 
<knome> micahg-work, in practice it is, XPL along with team leads are the ones that nominate people
<micahg-work> knome, I'd like it to be policy as well :)
<knome> micahg-work, but also in practice, XPL is the only one with admin rights on the LP team
<knome> giving those to others would bring other problems
<micahg-work> knome, XPL should be admin of the team that admins -team
<knome> micahg-work, the SD says that -team membership is gained with continuing contributions to teams
<GridCube> yes you see thats the people who should be elected, people who are known and work in the team
<micahg-work> knome, I"ll have to review the docs + changes and respond at a later time
<knome> micahg-work, rather than over-complicating it, i'd just count on people doing sensible choices
<GridCube> but the voters should be anyone from -users
<knome> micahg-work, ultimately, the SD has a veto vote
<knome> micahg-work, which can be overruled by CC intervention in the worst case
<micahg-work> I don't think random users should have a say in who XPL is since that opens it up to be more of a popularity contest
<knome> i agree with micahg-work 
<knome> even if the nominees were from -team, that doesn't warrant the decision is an informed one
<GridCube> i like the rest of the modifications though, simplifying the text is a good idea.
<micahg-work> if people are part of the project, they can get -team membership (and maybe that should be clearer somewhere)
<knome> (if -users vote)
<GridCube> knome, probably not, thats true.
<knome> micahg-work, that is pretty clear on the SD imo, but feel free to propose changes
<micahg-work> I think the team leads should decide on the slate for XPL
<micahg-work> people can nominate themselves
<micahg-work> knome, yes, but who reads the SD :)
<knome> micahg-work, hah.
<knome> micahg-work, i hope more people now that it is much more readable
<micahg-work> I really should draft a response to all this, but won't get to this until the weekend at the earliest
<knome> but point taken.
<knome> micahg-work, that's fine, we're not taking any decisions now
<micahg-work> I would say possibly something about -team membership on the contributing to Xubuntu page, it's akin to "Xubuntu membership"
<micahg-work> (and if it's on there, I apologize, I don't think I've looked at the page in a while)
<knome> micahg-work, sounds like something i can agree with :)
<knome> no, it's not specifically mentioned
<knome> but i'm not sure if it should be on the contribute frontpage
<knome> but we can discuss that later
<micahg-work> maybe a new "Becoming a part of Xubuntu" section
<knome> sure
<knome> #subtopic Ideas for using the project money 
<knome> we have about 250 euros. ideas?
<knome> ok...
<skellat> Umm
 * knome proposes to use it on the knome beer fund in the lack of better ideas
<knome> :P
<skellat> Set up disc distributions?
<knome> i'm not sure if that's sensible
<skellat> Use it for a bounty on something we want fixed/built?
<knome> we could print flyers as well, but all the money would just *go*
<micahg-work> knome, can use it as seed money for merchandise to generate more money?
<skellat> +1
<knome> micahg-work, we can't make money out of merchandise.
<knome> micahg-work, canonical license agreement.
<knome> that's the thing; we should just use it so it's gone. :)
 * smartboyhw suggests for using money to sponsor Xubuntu people to meetings
<smartboyhw> That's a usual way
<micahg-work> 250 euro isn't much to do something with
<smartboyhw> Not sure 250 euros do anyway
<knome> but rather than throwing it all towards a printer (the business, not the machine), i'd spend it to enable the team to do something
<ali1234> use it to buy prizes and then hold a contest of some sort - would perhaps go further than directly sponsoring specific work
<skellat> smartboyhw: What sort of meeting do you have in mind?  UbuCon at Ohio Linux Fest?
<smartboyhw> skellat, not sure, I'm just brainstorming for you guys
<skellat> Alrighty
<knome> for example, if we decided we want google hangouts for next vUDS, we could buy headsets for those who don't have one
<chilicuil> ali1234: +1
<knome> and we'd be able to buy a few
<knome> instead of a pile of paper
<skellat> Or invest in a server to run Jitsi/XMPP so smartboyhw can be included in such discussions since he's locked out of Google Hangouts?
<ali1234> that's a good idea. nothing is worse than video calling someone with the world's worst mic + webcam
<smartboyhw> skellat, huh
<smartboyhw> You'll do it for Noskcaj:)
<knome> i'd rather invest 5 minutes of my time to create him/them sock puppet accounts that tell they are 18.
<skellat> knome: That works too
 * smartboyhw hates lying about age as I said
<Unit193> Well, issue is that G+ hangouts simply seemed to be the least bad option.
<knome> contests are nice, but what do we gain from that?
<smartboyhw> knome, nice artwork?
<smartboyhw> Better packaging
<knome> smartboyhw, we have a set of artwork contributors to create us that, for free
<knome> better what packaging?
<knome> debian packaging?
<smartboyhw> knome, I mean, more applications:P
<smartboyhw> Sorry...
<skellat> That goes back to being a bounty for getting something accomplished
<lderan> thats not a terrible idea
<ali1234> yeah... the idea of doing it as a contest is you get loads of people to do it and you only have to pay one of them :P
<knome> and isn't "more applications" related more to ubuntu repositories than xubuntu
<smartboyhw> That's a issue, yeah
<knome> ali1234, but when they so something... what do we gain from them doing that?
<smartboyhw> knome, bigger contributor base (maybe)
<ali1234> well for example, a year ago i would have suggested a contest to make some more xfce themes. instead of paying one guy to make one theme, you hold a contest and maybe get 5 good themes but only have to pay the same amount
<ali1234> although the theme situation seems to be fixed now
<skellat> If we use it as an honorarium we can ask politely for somebody to help sponsor our developers along the road to gaining status as Debian Developer which will help us get stuff in quicker instead of waiting on mentors.debian.net and sponsorship there.
<knome> smartboyhw, i wouldn't count on that. and i'd not like people who contribute only because there is money to be had.
<GridCube> i like the idea of having a server for our own streaming/chat that we can "share" with mainbuntu P:
<smartboyhw> skellat, +1
<knome> GridCube, you're not going to get anything like that for 250 euros.
<GridCube> tru
<GridCube> e
<smartboyhw> I think Noskcaj is working on doing that, he has quite a number of package uploads in mentors
<smartboyhw> (though I am willing to exceed him:P)
<knome> skellat, good idea, but i'm wondering if money really helps in that
<skellat> knome: Just as a token of appreciation and/or contribution to their beer funds
<knome> sure, but still
<knome> but yeah, i think that's a good idea
<knome> at least it's not completely in vain
<knome> #info Discussion to be continued
<knome> #subtopic Proposal for more structured handling of Xubuntu bugs 
<knome> skellat, 
<skellat> Okay
<skellat> #info Currently we lack sufficient manpower to secure delegated status for "Bug Control" power
<micahg-work> we don't need delegated status
<skellat> #info We still have a "Xubuntu Bugs" team that is subscribed to all of our packages to get bug reports
<micahg-work> getting people approved for bug control is fairly easy
<skellat> Yeah
<micahg-work> one just needs to prove triage skills
<skellat> Yep
<skellat> Right now we just need folks to join "Xubuntu Bugs", watch what comes in, and triage.
<lderan> i can attempt that
<skellat> There isn't really a whole lot that comes in
<knome> skellat, want to prepare a blog article on the subject?
<knome> that's something that people who aren't actively involved could do as well
<skellat> Not at this point.  I will defer that for a couple weeks.
<elfy> I seem to see them in mailing list now
<knome> skellat, sure, but at some point
<micahg-work> right, people in #ubuntu-bugs can help set status for people until they prove themselves
<skellat> elfy: I've forwarded a couple to be highlighted to the list if they're one's we should be thinking about
<skellat> The biggest worry at this point is tagging duplicates, it seems.
<skellat> And watching for Incomplete information bug reports.
<micahg-work> that anyone can do I think
<skellat> Yep
<elfy> I'd just need some pointers I suspect
<skellat> Anybody can do it.  We just have to go from "can" to "will".
<knome> i would say there's also work to be done with the testing team to make the testers aware of what bugs they'd need to be aware of in addition to the ones already reported on the QA tracker or those they happen to hit
<skellat> Basically we're hitting Feature Freeze tomorrow so now is the time to get started tagging and flagging bugs so we can get rid of them.
<micahg-work> knome, elfy was working on consolidating bugs so developers can address them
<knome> micahg-work, yup, that's good
<elfy> micahg-work: did that with knome's help with launchpad - there are 8 from iso testing
<micahg-work> speaking of FF, is there anything feature wise we want before tomorrow?  I think I'm going to upload the new gnumeric
<knome> micahg-work, the panel indicators patch, display dialog, gmusicbrowser and any other pending uploads from ochosi you might have
<skellat> Nothing I can think of.  Did the seed regenerate after my patch last night?
<micahg-work> skellat, I uploaded that after I merged in your branch
<skellat> Okay, good, with the bugs upstream on pidgin-microblog not being addressed it didn't make sense to ship it on-disc at this point.
<micahg-work> anything else we want to add/remove from the seeds?
<knome> skellat, so what's the outcome for the bug discussion? (#info please)
<skellat> #info Members encouraged to join "Xubuntu Bugs" to watch the stream of reports and assist in triaging as they feel so moved
<skellat> #info Bug handling to be reassessed prior to opening of T cycle
<knome> okay, thanks
<skellat> I don't have any further seed changes either, micahg-work
<knome> can't think of any either
<knome> #subtopic Schedule next meeting 
<knome> do we need one next week (b1 release is on thu)
<GridCube> 2 weeks should be fine i guess
<skellat> I would rather avoid a release day
<skellat> 2 weeks
<knome> skellat, we can pick a wed, like today...
<knome> but yeah, if we don't need one, let's make that 2 weeks
<knome> #info Next meeting: Thu Sept 12, 15UTC
<knome> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Aug 28 15:59:44 2013 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2013/xubuntu-devel.2013-08-28-15.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2013/xubuntu-devel.2013-08-28-15.00.html
<elfy> thanks knome 
<knome> i'll put the minutes up later again
<GridCube> :
<GridCube> :)
<knome> thanks everybody
<elfy> knome: also - thanks for release post 
<knome> elfy, np
<knome> elfy, thought i'd reply since i happened to see the mail first...
<elfy> mailing later today re B1
<knome> great
<elfy> yep - been waiting for that mail to pop up - you beat me to it
<knome> i'm out of time now, so see you later ->
<elfy> I'll not be here for 12/9 meeting - wrong time on the wrong day 
<elfy> cya
<lderan> bye
<knome> meeting minutes are up
<lderan> cool
<pleia2> elfy: passed along your beta1 testing note to fb, twitter, g+
<pleia2> apologies for missing the meeting, had a late night last night and 8AM meeting really wasn't happening
<elfy> ty pleia2 
<knome> pleia2, no problem, hope you had a good time sleeping :)
<Unit193> I would have liked to have been...
<knome> ochosi, bug 1204486
<ubottu> bug 1204486 in LightDM GTK+ Greeter "Unable to select alternate languages at login screen" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1204486
<knome> ochosi, was that something that was fixed?
<ochosi> knome: that has to be re-tested against lightdm>=1.7.9
<ochosi> current release is 1.7.11, not sure what is in saucy
<knome> ok
<jjfrv8> knome, I spotted a few typos in the strategy doc. How would you like me to send you the suggested revisions?
<knome> jjfrv8, since i have it on a branch, and you're familiar with them, do a merge proposal
<jjfrv8> I tried to find the branch but wasn't successful. Where did I go wrong?
<jjfrv8> Well I tried to pull from the link you sent but it didn't let me.
<knome> jjfrv8, https://code.launchpad.net/~knome/+junk/xubuntu-strategy-document-rewrite-1310
<knome>      bzr branch lp:~knome/+junk/xubuntu-strategy-document-rewrite-1310 
<knome> no reason you couldn't do that
<jjfrv8> okay, will try again
<knome> let me know how it goes
<jjfrv8> worked this time. it didn't like the "changes" subdirectory before.
<knome> okay
<jjfrv8> thanks for that suggestion on Meld. I had been looking for just such a thing.
<knome> no problem :)
<knome> glad to be able to help
<jjfrv8> I've been falling down on the job lately with the Saucy docs but I plan on getting back to them in the next few days.
<knome> that's okay, we still have time until the doc freeze
<knome> hey GridCube! will you be around tomorrow?
<GridCube> probably
<GridCube> like usually around
<knome> :)
<knome> before 12UTC?
<knome> or is that still "today" for you?
<knome> (what's your timezone again...)
<GridCube> i live in utc -3
<GridCube> that would be the hour i "should" get to work, but i've arranged with my director to come later and leave later
<GridCube> P:
<knome> heh
<knome> let's see if i'll just do the website stuff today
<ochosi> micahg: i made the mistake of pinging you in -offtopic. gonna re-summarize here now...
<GridCube> great :)
<ochosi> micahg: i never made the shimmer-pathces, that was either you or mr_pouit, so i'm a bit lost with rebasing them (i'm not even sure where they are now)
<knome> GridCube, is the first desktop only 1024x576, or can't i access the full size version because i'm not logged?
<GridCube> let me see
<GridCube> the image resolution should be 1366Ã768
<knome> also, can you confirm where the license is specified?
<knome> ok, how should i go to get that size?
<GridCube> no no
<GridCube> lets find another image, this is obviously wrong somewhere
<bluesabre> knome: yup, already fixed and new one released
<bluesabre> you're so slow >.<
<ochosi> haha
<knome> bluesabre, wha? 1204486? why isn't the status fixed then
<GridCube> knome, lets use the second one
<knome> i get 1920x1080 for that
<knome> i assume that's correct
<knome> oh, for that, i can see the license
<GridCube> yes i made sure to upload it full
<knome> good
<GridCube> yes 
<bluesabre> knome... 1204486 != catfish
<knome> bluesabre, ffst
<knome> :P
<bluesabre> haven't backlogged all the way yet
<bluesabre> micahg: https://mentors.debian.net/package/mugshot
<bluesabre> any way to get that in with gtk-theme-config?
<knome> GridCube, so we also need to make sure the people who send the images specifically specify a license.
<GridCube> yes sorry i didnt paid any attention to that in the first image
<knome> they are lacking in all submissions except for those you uploaded
<knome> we also need to double-check the attribution the people want
<GridCube> yes, i am noticing it
<knome> eg. would that person want (c) Maitake or (c) Real Name
<GridCube> Probably just Maitake in this case
<knome> sure, but for future
<knome> would be helpful to have that in the deviantArt image description
<GridCube> ditto
<knome> along with the description you want in the website too, actually
<knome> what's in  http://gridcube.deviantart.com/art/Xubuntu-13-04-Desktop-of-IRC-user-Maitake-388920028  is better than "this is from user X"
<GridCube> true
<knome> except that description is for a reason or another cut..
<knome> is there a limit for the deviantArt submission titles?
<GridCube> it was an example of what to do in the wiki, not a real line that should go
<bluesabre> hmmm
<knome> (the one that says "Xubuntu 13.04 Desktop of IRC user Maitake" ?)
<bluesabre> tab title "Unix porn" on that screenshot
<knome> hmpf.
<GridCube> mmm you cant use special characters and maybe too long names would be a no no too
<knome> i thought we had moderators for that.
<knome> GridCube, but that would be acceptable for our purposes. we can always link to the deviantArt page too.
<GridCube> i noticed the "unix porn" tab, but thats just a screenshot sharing subreddit
<knome> sure, but that's still questionable
<GridCube> though so, but not really
<knome> whatever the actual content is, the guidelines say "safe for work"
<knome> not if you know what that is, but if you don't... and you probably wouldn't want your kids see that.
<ali1234> "mummy what is unix porn?"
<GridCube> a desktop sharing subreddit son
<knome> for example
<knome> GridCube, go explain that...
<GridCube> i though i just did
<GridCube> no really up to a fight here, we can use another, we do have many
<knome> sure
<ali1234> could lead to an interesting conversation about eunuchs
<knome> ali1234, which is where we should stop the discussion on this family-friendly channel
 * genii ponders ritporn
<knome> genii, uwff... can you ponder that alone? ;)
<knome> genii, just for the sake of it, googling that gives a questionable result #3.
<GridCube> we can use this one knome http://xubuntu-showcase.deviantart.com/art/Xubuntu-Numix-Faenza-389334534
<ali1234> it gives questionable results for the entire front page for me
<genii> knome: It's a joke site, all the photos are of computer equipment :-)
<GridCube> even if the license its not there it was proposed to us. i will send them a note asking for an update on the license
<genii> "The Best Racks on the Net", etc
<knome> genii, #3 result in google ain't. apparently rit == ritual...
<knome> GridCube, looking at that wallpaper, and following to its deviantArt page, what's the license?
<knome> GridCube, actually, it says Â©2012-2013 ~rOEN911
<knome> GridCube, and there's no open license specified
<GridCube> yes as i said, they gave the image to us. im asking him to update the license though
<knome> GridCube, no, i'm referring to the wallpaper image.
<knome> GridCube, at http://roen911.deviantart.com/art/The-Storm-Catcher-342576630
<GridCube> oh we have no idea for that, we will never be
<GridCube> neither them
<GridCube> its the internet we are talking about
<knome> it's the guidelines we set
<knome> "All submissions must confirm that they have permission to share a background or other desktop image (either through direct ownership or through licensing which allows it to be included in a screenshot). Our preferred licence is Creative Commons."
<knome> that's really clear on the issue.
<GridCube> the user links to the wallpaper creator http://roen911.deviantart.com/art/The-Storm-Catcher-342576630
<knome> that's exactly the reason we needed a moderator team
<knome> GridCube, yes, and that page does not specify a license we can use, only a copyright
<GridCube> and it falls under the deviantART fair use copyright policy http://about.deviantart.com/policy/copyright/
<knome> GridCube, so it should be considered a copyrighted image
<knome> that's the deviantArt copyright policy, not transferable to images submitted to xubuntu.org
<knome> GridCube, i understand the concept of fair use, and i'm sure most people wouldn't have any problems with what we are doing, but the guidelines are there for a reason
<GridCube> yes i know that
<knome> GridCube, the people sending submissions are able to change their wallpapers really easily (heck, we even literally ship them software to do that!)
<knome> GridCube, looks like we need to tigthen the moderation screw.
<GridCube> indeed
<GridCube> i will see to that
<knome> thanks
<GridCube> knome, http://xubuntu-showcase.deviantart.com/art/Desktop-2013-08-13-Xubuntu-12-04-392809990
<knome> GridCube, great
<GridCube> or this one http://xubuntu-showcase.deviantart.com/art/True-Blue-391934116 wallaper has a simply disclaimer http://alextc1.deviantart.com/art/Tsunami-295521292
<knome> i'd rather stick with real (tm) licenses, less prone to errors and misuse
<GridCube> ok
<knome> but you could check with the xubuntu license expert pleia2 
<GridCube> will do
<GridCube> :)
<knome> anyway, let's follow up on this on the mailing list and IRC the following days
<knome> i hope we can publish the first desktop early next week
<pleia2> been pretty overwhelmed this week and I haven't kept up with the discussion, but +1 to real licenses (CC preferred)
<knome> :)
<knome> pleia2 <3
<pleia2> <3
 * Unit193 licensed his BSD-3-clause. :D
<ochosi> ali1234: did you start the panel from /usr/local/.. ?
<pleia2> Unit193: it's weird to license artwork with a code license :)
<ali1234> yes, it makes no difference
<ochosi> ali1234: sorry i have to leave you at this point/stage, but i really gotta go sleep
<Unit193> pleia2: Kidding. ;P
<knome> pleia2, Unit193 is weird
<ali1234> don't worry, i'll figure it out
<GridCube> i've changed the wiki a bit knome 
<Unit193> Only concern is background, otherwise I couldn't care less.
<knome> GridCube, yeah, i played a bit with it as well
<ochosi> ali1234: ok great, if you do, forward your results to micahg 
<ochosi> night everyone!
<ali1234> ah.. if i run the indicators by hand they show up
<ali1234> so they're just not starting
<ochosi> cool!
<ochosi> weird
<ochosi> but still, good that it works
<ali1234> unfortunately the only one that exists on path is indicator-cpufreq
<ali1234> and that might be a dbus one anyway
<micahg_mobile> I'll upload gmb to Ubuntu and then push to Debian git
<knome> yay
<bluesabre> yay
<jjfrv8> knome, there's no option to propose for merging on that SD branch. Could it be because of the +junk thing?
<knome> jjfrv8, i'm pretty sure that's not proposed, but if you just type in the branch name (starting withÂ ~knome...) that should do it
<micahg_mobile> No merges for junk branches
<knome> really?
<knome> isn't that a bit stupid.
<jjfrv8> knome, you actualy mentioned that in my original training session.
<knome> did i?
<micahg_mobile> Nah,they're meant as a place to stash a WIP, if you want collaboration,make a project
<jjfrv8> I've got the notes to prove it. :)
<knome> oky
<knome> then i've just forgotten...
<knome> well BOO
<bluesabre> micahg_mobile: is there any way to get mugshot in, like what is being done with gtk-theme-config?  https://mentors.debian.net/package/mugshot
<knome> jjfrv8, if you have it on a branch i can manually diff though.
<micahg_mobile> See the RFS template on mentors, let me know if you still need help
<jjfrv8> okay. https://code.launchpad.net/~jjfrv8-gmail/+junk/xubuntu-strategy-document-rewrite-1310
<bluesabre> ok
<knome> jjfrv8, downloaded the file, thanks. you can either keep or delete the branch, however you wish
<jjfrv8> oki, thanks.
<knome> i'll look at merging that tomorrow
<knome> but a quick overview looked fine for me
<jjfrv8> cool
<bluesabre> micahg_mobile, RFS sent, thanks
#xubuntu-devel 2013-08-29
<knome> okay, i'm off for today
<knome> see you all later
<bluesabre> seeya knome
<micahg> bluesabre: if mugshot gets sponsored to Debian NEW before morning, I'll upload to Ubuntu
<micahg> bluesabre: BTW, you can reuse version numbers on mentors FWIW
<micahg> bluesabre: we can for sure throw mugshot in backports, did you want it integrated with something?
<smartboyhw> bluesabre: Please look at the lintian informational warnings at http://mentors.debian.net/package/mugshot (and you can use debhelper 9)
<knome> micahg, if possible, we'd like mugshot in the seed...
<micahg> knome: hrm, the package still needs help and I can't do everything myself
<micahg> I'm trying to update goffice/gnumeric and get the gtk3 panel stuff in
<micahg> knome: did we want the whole xfce4-settigs?
<micahg> *xfce4-settings
<knome> well mr_pouit said it'd be ok to cherry-pick the display dialog, but wasn't sure about the whole package
<micahg> hrm, he was concerned about testing
<knome> i don't mind if we pull it all in, but i understand his concerns
<micahg> I don't feel qualified to do a cherry pick ATM
<knome> if you're fine with the technical side, i can give us all the testing you need
<micahg> knome: I'm fine pulling in patches as needed from upstream to fix bugs as long as it's not too bad
<micahg> oh, you meant for a cherry pick
<micahg> I'm a bit too tired right now
<knome> for a cherry-pick or a whole pull of -settings
<micahg> cherry-pick, all of -settings is a sync from experimental thanks to noskcaj
<knome> mmh, are we sure it's supposed to work without pulling other components? 
<micahg> it builds...
<knome> okay - again, if you're fine with that, i'm fine with organizing us testing with elfy...
<micahg> Lionel seemed to imply the settings were compatible
<micahg> I'm fine with it if it's not a rabbit hole 
<knome> yeah... but i also recall he said we needed some dependency
<knome> well who knows?
<knome> :)
<knome>  You can
<knome> cherry-pick the display settings, of course, but you'll need to
<knome> cherry-pick the corresponding changes in xfsettingsd as well, otherwise
<knome> new features won't work.
<micahg> that's in the same package :)
<knome> okay
<knome> so what he was unsure was the xkb module as well
<knome> as long as we make sure that gets testing, we should be saf
<knome> *safe
<micahg> normally, I'd say, let's get testing first, but...
<knome> me too
<knome> if it's broken, let's pursue to fix it  :)
<micahg> OvenWerk1: ^^ since you're affected, any opinions?
<knome> it'll also get into beta 1, so nice
<micahg> knome: can you sort out with zequence in the morning since Studio is affected, it's just a button for me
<knome> re: mugshot, what do we need done and do you know somebody who i could aks to do that?
<knome> sure.
<smartboyhw> knome, what's the issue?
 * smartboyhw is awakey
<micahg> knome: needs lintian fixes or someone who doesn't care about the lintian issues to upload to Debian, then I'll fakesync to Ubuntu
<knome> well, we're about to pull in new xfce4-settings. studio fine with that?
<smartboyhw> knome, I think we are good, we just follow whatever Xubuntu does:P
<smartboyhw> As long as you guys test it, it will not be such a big issue for Studio
<knome> hopefully so
<knome> micahg, with that ^, feel free to go ahead with -setting (sbh is the US release manager)
 * smartboyhw has never heard anybody nicknaming him as sbh-.-
<Unit193> I just use smarty, but sbh is better (if you can remember it.)  mugshot "passed" lintian, but rules file still seems a bit odd.
<knome> Unit193, would you be willing to find somebody to work on it, like now? :)
 * smartboyhw can, after three hours
<knome> Unit193, keep smartboyhw updated if you didn't find anybody before that :)
<Unit193> knome: That will do I'd guess.
<smartboyhw> Unit193, are you sure it's Lintian clean?
<smartboyhw> http://mentors.debian.net/package/mugshot -.-
<smartboyhw> At least one of them can be fixed (if not all)
<smartboyhw> Use dh 9, blah blah blah
<Unit193> Hrm, was catfish?  I may have gotten the two mixed up...
<smartboyhw> Unit193, LOL
<Unit193> Yes?
<smartboyhw> Unit193, next time: Don't mix the packages:)
<Unit193> Sure, I'll make sure to never make a mistake again.
<knome> smartboyhw, yes daddy
<smartboyhw> knome, ......
 * smartboyhw hates knome-like jokes
<knome> :P
<knome> sorry, i forgot you didn't like that kind of jokes at all
<smartboyhw> First part can't understand about mugshot: Why do you have to override_dh_installman?
 * Unit193 sticks knome out on the lawn for being bad.
<knome> heh
<smartboyhw> The correct fix will be adding a debian/mugshot.manpages file and in the file type debian/mugshot.1
<knome> bluesabre, ^
<smartboyhw> And why do you have to explicitly rm .debhelper.log? It should get removed when using debuild -S
<OvenWerk1> micahg, bluesabre, knome ... I have been waiting for some of this stuff for a while...
<OvenWerk1> rumours but no new sw for too long ;)
<knome> OvenWerk1, yeah.
<micahg> -settings uploaded
<knome> micahg, thanks
<micahg> BTW, gtk-theme-config hit debian-devel-changes, so I should be able to sync to Ubuntu in the morning
<OvenWerk1> The monitor stuff is of interest because a large number of multimedia developers use more than one.
<micahg> gah, I think I'm too tired to finish this stuff :(
<OvenWerk1> it is a pain using one program to set them up and another to save them or a script set them up.
<OvenWerk1> micahg: no worries. Whatever we get we get.
<micahg> knome: I think I'll try to get an FFe for the indicator stuff
<knome> micahg, okay. does that mean you'll handle the paperwork?
<knome> pleia2, to get things eventually done, what was the server where you had access to?
<micahg> yeah, I'm thinking to just send a mail to -release now
<knome> pleia2, re:  [knome] Get IS set up static.xubuntu.org on a server where pleia2 has file access: TODO
<micahg> knome: mail sent to -release
<knome> noticed
<knome> sent mail, -team might want to check that out (also, specifically ping jjfrv8 :)
<pleia2> knome: strontium & neodymium, strontium is where docs.xubuntu.org is
<knome> is that what you'd prefer?
<pleia2> yeah, strontium makes the most sense unless they have a preference otherwise
<knome> sure
<knome> i'll file a ticket
<pleia2> thank you
<knome> nooo problemooo
 * pleia2 hugs knome 
<pleia2> now I go get more rest
<knome> okay, rest well :)
 * knome hugs pleia2 
<knome> pleia2, also, done.
<knome> bbl
<elfy> knome: I've seen the chat/mail and will liase before these things arrive to set up testing for them
<ochosi> does anyone here have an overview over what got uploaded yesterday and what didn't?
<elfy> not me - I got confused - just waiting to see what needs testing ... 
<ochosi> yeah, no worries, just wait a few days and it'll all be clear (as knome mentioned in his email)
<elfy> yep
<Unit193> http://packages.qa.debian.org/g/gtk-theme-config.html mugshot is still on mentors though.  What other packages were you looking at?
<knome> elfy, there's going to be some changes to settings manager on friday
<elfy> ok
<ochosi> Unit193: the panel and indicators
<knome> elfy, we will also be regaining indicators, so that possibly
<elfy> yep
<knome> elfy, first one also means reviewing the testcases we currently have
<elfy> yea I understood that to be the case
<knome> all others should be "only" normal new versions
<knome> but it'll all clear up for us after a few days :)
<elfy> I noticed you got nowhere talking to balloons about the dead tests killing packages.qa
<knome> yeah, we need stgraber
<elfy> yep
<knome> and i need to file a bug
<elfy> well as soon as you do I'll confirm it :p
<Unit193> ochosi: Looked like FFe on those.
<knome> Unit193, was gtk-theme-config already in, or pending?
<Unit193> It's in now, out of NEW.
<smartboyhw> \o/ i guess
<knome> yay
<knome> Unit193, sent email to list about that, thanks for reminding.
<Unit193> knome: Out of new, not in Ubuntu yet.
<knome> aha
<knome> reply to whatever message that's appropriate.
<knome> er
<knome> eith
<knome> with
<smartboyhw> Um, just request a sync?
<knome> this is what you get with 2h sleep
 * smartboyhw pushes knome to more sleep
<smartboyhw> You need energy man
<knome> smartboyhw, please, comments like "you should do this" or "just do this" aren't helpful, i'm sure our developers know what they need to do
<Unit193> That's what he was planning on tomorrow.
<knome> smartboyhw, on the other hand, if you wish to help, you are definitely free to request a sync yourself and take care of it
 * smartboyhw requests a sync
<Unit193> [03:34:30] < Unit193> That's what he was planning on tomorrow.
<smartboyhw> Unit193, yeah
<smartboyhw> ochosi, I'm trying to package light-locker into Debian, but weirdly I'm seeing all the files having copyright that is not the 3 people listed in AUTHORS or MAINTAINERS -.-
<ochosi> that's because it's a gnome-screensaver fork
<smartboyhw> ochosi, um, I thought you guys changed something and added your own copyright
<ochosi> we did change something, but mostly kicked out gnome-dependency code
<ochosi> we also added some pieces
<ochosi> i'll ask peter bout it, but i think it'll stay like that
<smartboyhw> ochosi, so, when did you guys start to work on the project? 2012 or 2013?
<ochosi> 2013
<ochosi> you can check the github repo if you wanna be sure ;)
<knome> ok, who pointed gtk-theme-config stuff to xubuntu-devel mailing list?
<ochosi> no idea, maybe satya didn't know any better,i'm not sure who's the driver of that project in launchpad
<knome> wondering if that is related to sbh requesting a sync
<smartboyhw> knome, wait, I haven't requested yet
<smartboyhw> And I didn't do ANYTHING to gtk-theme-config
<smartboyhw> (Not even the mailing lsit)
<knome> smartboyhw, i'm not accusing you, i was just wondering
<smartboyhw> knome, not me:)
<knome> i suppose this is the expected outcome of what micah said yesterday for me
<knome> which i ack'd, and it's fine, because he's going to fix that :)
<Unit193> knome: Yes.
<Unit193> http://packages.qa.debian.org/g/gtk-theme-config/news/20130829T040006Z.html maintainer.
<knome> jjfrv8, merged you fixes to SD. thanks!
<knome> Unit193, yep, that's what he said.
<knome> just good to know where all that mail is coming from
<Unit193> knome: Should have a second one coming soon?
<Unit193> knome: ...What was the subject?
<knome> second what?
<knome> there was six
<knome> no, five
<smartboyhw> ochosi, uploaded the package to Debian mentors, waiting for review:)
<Unit193> ...._amd64.changes ACCEPTED into unstable
<knome> yup
<knome> source rejected
<knome> Source-only uploads are not allowed.
<knome> ideally, we should list all of the new and major uploads in the development blueprint to keep track of them
<ochosi> knome: +1
<knome> Unit193, you on top of the situation?
<knome> Unit193, want to update the blueprint or go through it with me?
<Unit193> If you think I know more than you...
<knome> i need working brain
<lderan> have mine
<knome> ha
<knome> so...
<knome> mic: gtk3 indicators: inprogress
<Unit193> Most likely FFe, from scrollback unless someone can read better than I can.
<knome> yep, that's it
<knome> but that's irrelevant for the blueprint
<Unit193> "I think I'll try to get an FFe for the indicator stuff"
<Unit193> SUre.
<knome> he's done it pretty much, sent mail to -release and got +1
<knome> (or at least kind of... :))
<knome> i'd consider that a +1.
<knome> anyway, what else?
<knome> gtk-theme-config
<ochosi> yup
<knome> who's working on that?
<Unit193> Mica, made it past NEW and said to be fakesync tomorrow.
<Unit193> dinstall *should* get it (running now: http://ftp-master.debian.org/dinstall.status )
<knome> xfce4-settings
<knome> mic, inprog?
<knome> mugshot, -dev, todo ?
<ochosi> mugshot would be really nice to have
<knome> we'll need to file a FFe for that most probably
<Unit193> mugshot is on mentors and RFS sent, no bites I've seen.
<knome> Unit193, so who's the one working on it? blu?
<Unit193> knome: -settings is in exp, cherry-pick/whatever.
<knome> mic?
<Unit193> knome: Blue.
<ochosi> what's with all the nick-abbreviations suddenly?
<knome> we need a term for "getting package in the repositories and seeds"
<knome> ochosi, don't want to hilight them for no reason
<ochosi> aren't nicknames already abbreviations most times?
<ochosi> alright
<Unit193> http://mentors.debian.net/package/mugshot - http://lists.debian.org/debian-mentors/2013/08/msg00279.html
<knome> like "ochosi" is abbreviation of "simon" and "knome" of "pasi" ? :>
<Unit193> "Unit193" is shorter than "Unit 193"
<smartboyhw> And knome abbreviated sbh as me:O
<knome> you're cheating
<lderan> :O
<smartboyhw> Unit193, hey, wrong rules
<knome> yeah, and as "smartboyhw" is an abbr of "howard"
<lderan> tom is shorter then lderan :P
<smartboyhw> lderan, LOL
<knome> lderan, but ain't tom a nickname too?
<lderan> knome, indeed, i think
<knome> lol
<knome> well it's not your birth name
<knome> aiui
<knome> you tell me! :P
<lderan> technicalities :P
<knome> heh
<Unit193> knome: That it?
<knome> i suppose.
<knome> work items updated
<knome> ideally, this happens as soon as people propose something to be included an that's ack'd by the team...
 * Noskcaj is the only one not longer than his name
<knome> what about pleia2 <-> Elizabeth
<Noskcaj> good point
<smartboyhw> knome, good point
<Noskcaj> OMG, this is the first time i've seen mr pouit online, ever
<smartboyhw> Well wait, smartboyhw is much longer then Howard...
<Noskcaj> (it's bad this is an achievement)
<smartboyhw> Noskcaj, congrats then
<Noskcaj> Possible Success!
<Noskcaj> micahg, My internet isn't fast enough to merge gnumeric, i'll have to leave it to you
<bluesabre> well, they've at least set the severity to normal: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=721208
<ubottu> Debian bug 721208 in sponsorship-requests "RFS: mugshot/0.1-5 [ITP] - lightweight user-configuration application" [Wishlist,Open]
<bluesabre> thanks everyone for all the notes
<bluesabre> if the debian packager docs were a bit easier to find/search, I would be having an easier time with all this :)
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, Everything you should need is at http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/
<bluesabre> smartboyhw, I explicitly remove .debhelper.log because debhelper was adding it, not deleting it, and then failing lintian
<smartboyhw> bluesabre, weird
<smartboyhw> I remember a command clearing these
<lderan> knome, private voting mp has been merged and will be deployed later today :)
<Unit193> Nice!
<knome> woo
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, Shouldn't dh_autoclean and dh_clean fix that?
<bluesabre> should, but don't
<bluesabre> trying to fix now
<knome> coffee time!
 * smartboyhw passes along a cup of coffee to knome 
<Noskcaj> Can someone have a look at adding a xubuntu OEM slideshow? I made one a few months a go but AFAIK, no one merged it
<knome> Noskcaj, i'd still like to discuss what the point of the xubuntu "oem" installation is
 * smartboyhw does not think any OEMs will ship Xubuntu as default
<Noskcaj> knome, It adds the slideshow to people using the OEM-config option.
<Noskcaj> Ideally with symlinks
<knome> yes, but what does the user gain from installing with oem, and why should the slideshow be different?
<bluesabre> user doesn't gain anything, but somebody providing it for an end-user gains "here's your new xubuntu computer"
<bluesabre> ideal for selling or donating
<knome> umm, right..
<Noskcaj> knome, Without an OEM slideshow, the OEM-config is just a progress bar, and an icon that changes randomly
<knome> so the end-user booting the pc sees that slideshow?
<knome> or the one who installs the pc 
<smartboyhw> knome, installs I think
<knome> if it's who installs, i still don't understand the reason why we would want a different slideshow
<smartboyhw> And if it is the end-user, that end-user won't see the slideshow for that long enough
<knome> or to put it other way, then it should be completely different
<bluesabre> its first boot for somebody receiving the computer for the first time
<Noskcaj> knome, end user
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, exactly
<smartboyhw> bluesabre, Noskcaj how long does that user see the slideshow?
<bluesabre> like when you start a brand new windows computer you just bought
<knome> ewww
<knome> ;)
<smartboyhw> ewww
<smartboyhw> Noskcaj, how long is it?
<lderan> poor windows :P
<knome> in that case, the slideshow shouldn't say:
<Noskcaj> smartboyhw, in my experience, 10-15 minutes
<bluesabre> it provides initial user config outside of the xubuntu installer
<knome>                 <p>You have chosen to install the latest version of Xubuntu, 13.10.</p>
<smartboyhw> Noskcaj, ha!?
<knome> but "You are running", or sth
<smartboyhw> Noskcaj, from my experience, testing OEM's user-installation stage doesn't need 8 minutes
<bluesabre> knome: exactly
<smartboyhw> So, you need to shorten that
<smartboyhw> 10-15 minutes would mean, an actual installation
<smartboyhw> (Starting from the slideshow first appears)
<Noskcaj> smartboyhw, Then i need to get my mod finished already, this laptop take 45min for a full install
<knome> if/as it's the end-user seeing that, a separate slideshow makes sense, but the merge proposal doesn't
<smartboyhw> lol
<bluesabre> smartboyhw: debhelper 9 adds new lintian warning, sticking with 8
<bluesabre> http://mentors.debian.net/package/mugshot
<smartboyhw> bluesabre, you should kill these warnigns
<smartboyhw> *warnings
<smartboyhw> What sort of warning does it add?
<knome> smartboyhw, no shit sherlock
 * smartboyhw only sees LESS warnings from 8->9
<smartboyhw> !language | knome 
<ubottu> knome: Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family-friendly, polite, and professional.
<bluesabre> thats because I fixed the other problems
<smartboyhw> bluesabre, what's the lintian warning?
<smartboyhw> I mean, the newly appearing one
<bluesabre> package-needs-versioned-debhelper-build-depends: 9
<knome> got to fire up the desktop i guess
<smartboyhw> bluesabre, huh, that's because you didn't bump debian/control's build-depends debhelper versino
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> :(
<smartboyhw> bluesabre, so:P
<Noskcaj> lol
<bluesabre> here's one more go :)
 * knome hands bluesabre a lotto coupon
 * smartboyhw does wonder if knome has a lot of lotto products at home
 * Noskcaj officially hates symbols files
<smartboyhw> Noskcaj, OK, I admit, symbols is a big hate for me too, initially
<smartboyhw> Noskcaj, http://pkg-kde.alioth.debian.org/symbolfiles.html
<smartboyhw> This will give you some convenice
<smartboyhw> *convenience
<Noskcaj> thanks, i'll try that
<bluesabre> woot, finally lintian clean
<bluesabre> thanks smartboyhw
<smartboyhw> bluesabre, :)
<knome> Unit193, you still around?
<Unit193> No.
<smartboyhw> LOL
<knome> okay, so in that case, how hard it would be to create an iso that had the xubuntu oem installation stuff from Noskcaj's repo (to see if it works as is and to see how it'd look like) ?
<Noskcaj> knome, since all that is new to me and i have to go to bed in 5 minutes, very
<knome> i was asking Unit193 
<smartboyhw> HAHAHA
<knome> but thanks for stepping up
<Unit193> Ooooh, he could do it when he wakes up!
 * smartboyhw thinks we need to generate a new version of package with Noskcaj's changes
<Unit193> knome: Package, raw?
<knome> Unit193, wha?
<knome> whatever is the easiest way to do that
<Noskcaj> Unit193, point is, don
<Noskcaj> 't bother telling me how now
<Unit193> "repo" I'm guessing is bzr?
<knome> Unit193, yes, https://code.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/xubuntu-oem
<knome> Unit193, but basically the content we have on our slideshow right now goes as well
<Noskcaj> knome, That's not up-to-date with the changes though, but i'll try
<Noskcaj> And i need to symlink the stuff
<knome> Noskcaj, let's see if Unit193 would have the time to do it now
<knome> Noskcaj, if not, then we can discuss if you want to work on it now
<knome> -now
<Noskcaj> plz Unit193?
<knome> at this point, i'm not interested in the actual slideshow but how it'll turn out to be
<knome> if we decide to go with an oem slideshow (which is what i'm trying to find out with the ISO), i think we should review the slideshow anyway
<Unit193> So, iso with updated, out of repo package?
<knome> should probably be much more to the point and only highlight 2-3 most important things
<knome> Unit193, or iso with a package that has 'cp slideshows/xubuntu slideshows/oem-config-xubuntu" and whatever else it might need to actually show the slideshow for the end-user
<knome> Unit193, i don't mind the content. i just want to be sure it's doable for xubuntu before we dive deeper into thinking about the possibility or tweaking the tests
<Unit193> Build script makes it easy for me to add a package, or drop in some files.
<knome> yeah, whatever is easiest for you
<Unit193> I don't know much about the slideshow stuff, and getting which one to display when.  There isn't a test display like the normal one?
<knome> there is, but that's not the point; the point is i'd like to know if the oem slideshow is actually shown to the end-user, as it should
<knome> until we know that, we shouldn't concentrate too much on the slideshow content, right? :)
<Noskcaj> Yay, a symbols file that works. Now i need sleep. bye everyone
<knome> good night Noskcaj 
<Unit193> Alright...
<knome> if you have no idea, i could ask dylan, the maintainer of that package
<knome> the problem is, he is really rarely on irc and email is too slow for this kind of discussion
<Unit193> I'm not fully sure what you're wanting yet.  The idea his branch has a new subfolder that you want in so you can do a test install?
<knome> yep
<knome> to see if the oem config slideshow is shown
<Unit193> OK, is it ready to ship now?
<knome> well, to be honest, i don't know. the slideshow isn't final, and i don't know if it works.
<knome> works in the sense that i don't know if all the bits we need are in,.
<knome> -,
<Unit193> So, few hours when he comes back or build now?
<knome> as i said, i'm not interested if the slideshow content is up-to-date now
<knome> if the oem installer works and we decide to use it, it'll need a complete review
<knome> because in that case we need to take a whole another point of view for the slideshow
<knome> so.... build now :)
<Unit193> Got it.
<Unit193> (Building the package so if something breaks, Not my faultâ¢ :P )
<lderan> of course :P
<Unit193> Next time I should ask arch before I'm done with it...
<smartboyhw> Unit193, BTW, how do you build such images? live-build?
<Unit193> Nah.
<smartboyhw> Unit193, oh?
<Unit193> Oh.
<smartboyhw> Unit193, please answer then:P
<Unit193> Home built scripts?  Not really doing much...
<Unit193> Hrm, need an else. :P
<Unit193> knome: http://vanir.unit193.tk/dump/xubuntu-13.10-oem-amd64.iso and there's a zsync there too.
<Unit193> Everything looks in order.
 * knome downloads.
<Unit193> And, *should* work on EFI systems too. :P
<knome> i'll just try under vbox :P
<lderan> ooo efi
<lderan> i can give it a go
<Unit193> Goood luck. :P
<knome> :)
<Unit193> OVMF didn't complain last one I tried, though that doesn't have secure boot.
 * bluesabre ponders having all wallpapers installed and available (xubuntu-precise, -quantal, -raring, -saucy)
<knome> muahahaha.
<knome> anybody interested in an experiment?
<bluesabre> (say yes)
<knome> i suppose everybody is sleeping ;)
<bluesabre> gotta go, bbl
<knome> hf
<knome> bbl.
<smartboyhw> knome, skellat where is the branch for xubuntu-docs?
<smartboyhw> Eh, found it
<smartboyhw> knome, skellat you will be expecting more questions from me about documentation in the coming few months, as I will work on Ubuntu Studio's offline documentation
<elfy> good lord - too much scrollback to worry about methinks
<smartboyhw> lol
<micahg_mobile> Knome: i think we're in good shape 
<ali1234> ochosi: i never managed to get these indicators working
<ali1234> although i do see them running on ps (well, some of them) they don't get added to the applet... they are visible in the properties though, in "known indicators" section
<ali1234> then when i restarted the panel even those disappeared
<ali1234> sorry, even the libappindicator ones (ie cpufreq) disappeared
<ali1234> i think there's something wrong with dbus - various applications which use it seem to hang for about 30 seconds on startup
<ali1234> i see there's an update for dbus today, maybe it will help
<ali1234> indicator updates too
<ochosi> ali1234: you tested on saucy?
<ali1234> yes
<ochosi> hmm, i ran all my tests on raring
<ali1234> none of the updates helped
<ali1234> i think it's working
<ali1234> but only the printer and sync indicators are running
<ochosi> that's odd
<ali1234> and neither of those shows an icon because i don't have a printer and i haven't set up U1
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> that's definitely an issue
<ali1234> but all the other ones do not run at all
<ochosi> very strange
<ali1234> tha is, they're not on ps
<ali1234> btw, what is wrapper-1.0 and wrapper-2.0?
<ochosi> i'd check it all out myself on saucy, but i'm moving to another country this weekend, so...
<ali1234> i thought it was wrapper3?
<ochosi> wrapper-1.0 is for gtk2 panel-plugins, wrapper-2.0 is for gtk3 plugins
<ali1234> that makes no sense :/
<ali1234> but i figured as much
<ochosi> well, depends
<ochosi> it's just intended as the next major version after 1.0
<ochosi> so imo it's fine
<ochosi> and users don't see any of this anyway
<ochosi> the 3 in wrapper3 refers to gtk3 thoguh
<ochosi> though
<ali1234> this is what's wrong with dbus: ** (synaptic:4151): WARNING **: Error retrieving accessibility bus address: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.NoReply: Did not receive a reply. Possible causes include: the remote application did not send a reply, the message bus security policy blocked the reply, the reply timeout expired, or the network connection was broken.
<ali1234> already reported i see
<ali1234> well, this might be related i suppose
<ochosi> possible
<ochosi> i mean the thing is that our indicator-plugin doesn't handle accessible descriptions yet
<ochosi> so the warning could also be about that
<ali1234> nah that warning is from synaptic
<ali1234> it's a known bug with dbus: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dbus/+bug/1217757
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1217757 in dbus (Ubuntu) "Error retrieving accessibility bus address: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.NoReply: Did not receive a reply. " [High,Confirmed]
<ali1234> but if dbus is acting weird, it could be why the indicators just aren't working
<ali1234> probably not though
<ochosi> without being able to test it myself it's hard to judge what the problem could be
<pleia2> a bunch of messages from ftpmaster@ftp-master.debian.org are stuck in the mod queue for the -devel mailing list re: gtk-theme-config
<pleia2> is this something we want let through?
<knome> micahg, ^
<knome> pleia2, not really, but keep it for now
<pleia2> keep in mod queue?
<knome> yeah
<pleia2> k
<olbi> hi guys :D
<olbi> why on site there isn't info about Xubuntu 12.04.03 LTS? :P
<elfy> ewvening all
<sak> morning everyone 
<elfy> hello sak 
<ali1234> ochosi: installed U1, the cloud sync indicator showed up when i started it
<ali1234> so the wrapper and all is working, it's the indicators that are broken :/
<pleia2> olbi: the download page does link to 12.04.3, we didn't really have release notes for it afaik (if that's what you're looking for)
<ochosi> ali1234: weird, so do you still have the gtk2 counterparts (e.g. indicator-sound-gtk2) installed?
<ali1234> no, i removed them (they stopped working anyway)
<ochosi> so indicator-sound is installed, shows in the plugin-settings but not the panel?
<ali1234> no, it doesn't show at all
<ochosi> ok
<ali1234> indicator-printers shows in the settings but not the panel - because i don't have a printer
<ali1234> same for indicator-sync
<ali1234> the others are not running at all
<ochosi> i wonder why that would be
<ochosi> maybe they did change something in the indicators (again) in 13.10
<ochosi> and the sound-indicator's gtk2 version not working is connected to that
<knome> hey all,
<knome> want to give you all something to play with:
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/.expwall/
<knome> (feel free to test out, but atm, don't share the link too broadly, it's just a little experiment. i will come up with something more finalized later if it turns out people like the idea)
<elfy> played with that a bit - likes the idea as well :)
<Unit193> It's actually not bad.
<elfy> I like the idea :)
<knome> well that's because it's designed not to be bad ;)
<elfy> or did I say that 
<knome> bbl
<lderan> knome, oooo that looks cool
#xubuntu-devel 2013-08-30
<ali1234> ochosi: i think i know why it isn't working. there is no libsoundmenu.so anywhere on my system. it looks like the way indicators work has been changed yet again and now they are just executables, so there is nothing for the indicator-applet to load (it directly loads the .so files)
<ali1234> if i understand correctly it means indicator-applet will have to be totally rewritten to make this work
<ali1234> ochosi: this is where they patched the gnome fallback indicator applet for the new style indicators, the same thing needs to be done with xfce: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~indicator-applet-developers/indicator-applet/trunk.13.10/revision/409
<ali1234> actually this code looks rather familiar :P
<Noskcaj> If i get gthumb working this weekend, will we be able to get it into saucy?
<Noskcaj> AN IT BUILDS!
<skellat> Noskcaj: Does it fix any bugs by getting a new gthumb in?  If not you need to file a Feature Freeze Exception request bug.
<knome> micahg, i disagree with your indicators decision...
<ochosi> knome: i was off for a while, what's up ^ ?
<Noskcaj> The gthumb changelog is at http://paste.ubuntu.com/6045779/
<knome> ochosi, referring to https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2013-August/002523.html
<ochosi> ah
<ochosi> i see
<ochosi> well frankly, so far, little testing has been done on that
<ochosi> ali1234 reported some issues that i'm chatting andrzejr up about atm
<knome> i think it's too late to back up after fighting with it and not saying no back then..
<skellat> Noskcaj: But are bugs being fixed that are tracked in Ubuntu?
<knome> i think i'm more against the way/time how the decision turned out rather than the decision itself
<ochosi> mhm
<ali1234> ochosi: it looks like it should be easy to make the new indicators work, the source code of the indicator applet is mostly shared with the gnome one, and that is already fixed.
<ochosi> agreed, that should be discussed
<ochosi> ali1234: thanks for the research and testing on that btw!
<skellat> Noskcaj: That is to say, any of the bugs listed here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gthumb
<knome> otoh, it's too late to discuss it now because it won't now land in for beta 1, and i agree landing after b1 is too late
 * ochosi dislikes last-minute hop-or-drop decisions...
<Noskcaj> skellat, i'll do that when i get back from my first soccer game
<skellat> Noskcaj: Okay.  Debian-side has a Request for Adoption so I'm wondering if pushing this through Debian first might be a better idea
<Noskcaj> skellat, i am
<skellat> Okay. 
<knome> for me, gthumb is an okay application, but i'm not specifically a fan of it.
<ochosi> +1
<ochosi> if shotwell weren't qt, we could ship that
<ochosi> it's quite nice thb
<Noskcaj> I don't use it either
<ochosi> tbh
<skellat> Noskcaj: Now, if you're looking for a new challenge to start packaging I can help you with the manual page for this one: https://launchpad.net/markdowner
<knome> having said that, i don't think anybody should maintain it just because it is a "xubuntu application", but because they like it and *want* to maintain it
 * ochosi remembers we started shipping it for supporting special cameras...
<skellat> That needs to start off in Debian so it isn't going to get into Saucy but it would be nice to have it in T
<knome> ochosi, you remember wrong
<knome> we started shipping it because ristretto was broken
<ochosi> knome: so why then?
<knome> we kept it because it supported more cameras
<ochosi> weird, it's not really a simple image viewer
<knome> sure, but that was our best option to replace ristretto
<knome> to replace *broken* ristretto
<knome> once ristretto was back in the business, it could've served as the simple image viewer, but by that time people apprently wanted more
<Noskcaj> skellat, i'll look into that after gthumb works (i'll try and transfer ownership to the gnome team) and i've finished etm-qt
<Unit193> knome: He said somthing about pushing in backports for saucy, though it may have changed.
<skellat> Noskcaj: Okay.  Markdowner is a fun little python-based thing that is a basic Markdown text editor that lets gives you HTML preview and lets you save Markdown & HTML.
<skellat> Something a little less heavy-duty than some of the other things you've tackled thus far
<Noskcaj> skellat, sound interesting
<Noskcaj> *sounds
<knome> Unit193, not the same, but yep, i remember seeing that as well
<Unit193> Sure it's not the same, but far better than nothing.
<knome> i suppose.
<skellat> I'll be interested if the maintainer ever responds on Debian Bug #712102 even though that little package is finally unseeded on our end downstream.
<ubottu> Debian bug 712102 in pidgin-microblog "Plugin no longer functions with Twitter or Identica" [Grave,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/712102
<knome> but then again, eating at a crappy fast-food restaurant is better than not eating...
<Unit193> I wouldn't compare backports to crappy fastfood, but that's me.
<skellat> Unit193: Depends upon the euphemisms in use
<knome> Unit193, not backports, but the saying "better than nothing"
<Unit193> Alright, I'll try it again.  It may be in backports, so that'll be nice.  :P
<knome> heh
<knome> fast food is nice if you're hungry...
<knome> ...but it's not the thing you'd put in your mouth if you could choose
<Unit193> Mmmmmm, fish sandwich from Rallys... :D
<skellat> Unit193: You still have one of those establishments nearby?
<Unit193> On trips it's close.
<ArminasAnarchy> Hi all, does anyone have any news about an xfce-core package? I read something about how it might be in development, but figured this would be the place to check the progress.
<ochosi> you mean a xfce-core packageset?
<skellat> ArminasAnarchy: I dropped the ball on that as other life issues came up.  
<ArminasAnarchy> Package set? I heard there was discussion about creating a meta package with just vital desktop components (i.e. window manager, xserver, thunar etc) with things like xchat, gnumeric, abiword out.
<ArminasAnarchy> it might have been xubuntu-core or something, I can't remember
<ArminasAnarchy> Ahh were you the dev? Has anyone else picked it up?
<skellat> ArminasAnarchy: Again, I dropped the ball on that.  Little things like dealing with one's mother in the hospital with cardiac issues kinda do a number on your priorities.
<skellat> ArminasAnarchy: Unless somebody has done so in secret, nope.
<knome> ArminasAnarchy, no, it hasn't been worked on now.
<knome> theoretically it could hit 13.10, but not as an option at installation time
<skellat> ArminasAnarchy: We're after Feature Freeze so it is very likely to not hit 13.10 in anything shipped.  I may get started next month putting together documentation for us to consider prior to the T cycle that begins near the end of October.
<Unit193> I looked at that one, and mentally half made the list...
<knome> Unit193, yes, it's one of those things that are easy to half-do mentally...
<ArminasAnarchy> Sorry about your Mam, skellat. =( I hope she gets well soon and you both pull through. I don't suppose it's the kind of thing you can really build into any plans/timetable :|
<knome> regardless if you meant "in a mental state" or "in one's mind"
<Unit193> knome: Really all you need to do is look at the current seed, and drop out useless items (I'd compare with the lubuntu one too, but that's me.)
<knome> useless is a bad term, but yes.
<ochosi> at least it's not a useless term
<knome> :P
<skellat> Once we're not messing with the seeds anymore I'll download the branches and start putting together something we can slap up on the wiki for discussion
<skellat> Along with the other documentation work that needs to happen in September & October
<ArminasAnarchy> I figured the way to do it would be to install it on top of a minimal installation...it'd be a little pointless otherwise?
<knome> skellat, or pad
<ArminasAnarchy> Do we have a release date for salamander?
<skellat> 17 October 2013 (See: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/ReleaseSchedule )
<Unit193> ArminasAnarchy: On top of the mini.iso is generally the thought.
<ArminasAnarchy> At the moment I've a bit of time (at least until uni on the 20th), and I'd be interested in putting together this metapackage...I'm keen to get involved but don't really have much of an idea of HOW to.
<ArminasAnarchy> Working out the packages that are needed should be easy enough, just a case of going through the packages I have installed currently, and seeing how many I could pull out without things breaking...right?
<skellat> That's not the safest way to go
<ArminasAnarchy> Or would it be easier to work from the ground up?
<skellat> ArminasAnarchy: Yes
<knome> or from the seed
<ArminasAnarchy> the seed?
<skellat> There are also some Technical Boards resolutions that have to be followed that are documented in the seeds that discuss minimum things that must be included.
<knome> we can probably point out which packages are essential for the system "working"
<htmlgifted> hay all htmlgifted 12.04 xubuntu user... Nice to met u.. I hope i can find and provide help to any one and every i can... Happy labor day to u all... tty all l8ter. 
<skellat> The "seed" is the file that is what the metapackage is built from.  It contains the list of packages and whether they would be hard dependencies or removable ones.
<ArminasAnarchy> Where could I find that?
<skellat> For Xubuntu, our seed for Saucy can be found here: https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/ubuntu-seeds/xubuntu.saucy
<skellat> The whole set of seeds being worked on can be found here: https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu-seeds
<ArminasAnarchy> So how do I use that? o.o
<htmlgifted> what i see.... after doing the password...
<htmlgifted> IDS/IPS interfaces.
<skellat> You mostly want to look at the STRUCTURE file in this view: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/ubuntu-seeds/xubuntu.saucy/files
<htmlgifted> configure which interface you want snort to listen to
<knome> htmlgifted, wrong channel?
<skellat> From there you can look at each individual file which has quite a bit commenting to it
<htmlgifted> yah.
<htmlgifted> srry.
<skellat> And then you could compare against the Lubuntu seed which has a core file in it which lays out their core packages: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~skellat/ubuntu-seeds/lubuntu.saucy/files
<ArminasAnarchy> Oh, and, is there any documentation on how to get involved? If there isn't any currently, maybe it'd be an idea for an experience dev to create something? It's a bit of a pain in the short term, but if it gets more people involved and makes contributing easier, in the long term it should be more than worthwhile.
<OvenWerk1> skellat: Studio may be interested in such a meta.
<knome> ArminasAnarchy, yes. http://xubuntu.org/contribute/
<skellat> OverWerk1: smartboyhw apparently has some open seeds on Launchpad of his own.  He may be able to help cook something up.
<OvenWerk1> I have been playing with some stuff too, but not anything custom in that way. It is not much work to take a xubuntu install and cook it to look like our install.
<ArminasAnarchy> I'm in the situation where I love Xubuntu, and would love to be able to contribute, but don't have the time/patience to learn to code. So I could do stuff with testing, and maybe with writing documentation, but I've no idea with how to start. @knome: that page is far too brief. "Join the IRC and mailing lists" is going to leave most people lost.
<OvenWerk1> The new monitor app works really well btw.
<OvenWerk1> I am now aware of how messed up the intel g500 (I think) driver is.
<ArminasAnarchy> Maybe something more explicitly stating how the project is governed and developer, where developers are needed?
<skellat> ArminasAnarchy: knome is the Xubuntu Project Leader and guides the project overall
<knome> ArminasAnarchy, also see the subpages below
<knome> ArminasAnarchy, there's no clear area where we need help - we always need help with everything
<knome> i also think that you should do something that scratches your itch, not something somebody just happens to need
<knome> that's the best motivator, not us telling "our documentation is crappy"
<knome> (it used to be... now people that like working on documentation has found their way to our project)
<skellat> :-)
<skellat> Next week is when we'll been probably needing suggestion on things to add to the offline documentation
 * skellat has fingers flailing over the keyboard making typos...must go find food...
<knome> that, and we'll need to rewrite some sections as well
<knome> skellat, bon appetit :)
<knome> ArminasAnarchy, also, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/StrategyDocument
<lderan> oh knome theres been no further comments on the slideshow MP, shall i poke him a bit? :P
<Unit193> OK, so did a round one for core...
<knome> lderan, wondering if we should get more feedback from more people
<lderan> sounds good to me
<knome> oh bah, i need to test Unit193's slideshow-respin
<knome> can't do that before mon though :/
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/EnlmnypYiWKZfVRTjQxD/ it's not much, but a start.
<lderan> ooo
<Unit193> May have to put elinks or w3m in there to silence some deps on www-browser.
<knome> bbl, sleepytime now
<pleia2> good night, knome 
<ochosi> night knome 
#xubuntu-devel 2013-08-31
<htmlgifted> hello i have a question that pertains to Release 12.04 (precise) 32-bit system was wondering if there is a way to get a logitec camera to be passed through to a vm machine so the vm say windows can see it.?
<ali1234> yes there is
<ali1234> virtualbox can do this
<ali1234> however, i'm not sure if it supports USB2
<htmlgifted> oh the camera is a old logitec ball camera...  usb
<htmlgifted> defualts when connected to xp machine pyshicaly... 
<ali1234> it should be fine then. you might need to do some tweaks to make it work: http://askubuntu.com/questions/25596/set-up-usb-for-virtualbox
<htmlgifted> cool thanks..
<htmlgifted> will report back later with results.
<Noskcaj> micahg, i got gthumb working (it seems debhelper 9 kills it), and have now requested the pkg-gnome team maintain it in debian. Hopefully it will be working for T-series
<smartboyhw> Noskcaj: Can't you join the pkg-gnome team and co-maintain it?
<Noskcaj> smartboyhw, I will, but so far no one has replied as to if they are willing to maintain it
<Noskcaj> and i don't use it
<smartboyhw> Noskcaj, alright
<bluesabre> I'll share the excitement over here as well. Parole GTK3, Gstreamer 1.0, GtkOverlay controls: http://imagebin.org/269375
<bluesabre> (WIP)
<Unit193> Congrats!
<elfy> :)
<lderan> :D
<ali1234> that looks really good
<ali1234> i'm trying to port over the changes from gnome to xfce4 indicator applet to make the indicator-ng work
<ali1234> it needs an extra library though, and i can't figure out how to add it to the configure.ac so that the build will find it
<ali1234> maybe that's not even the right place to add it
<ali1234> hmm ok, i got it added... it needs to go in configure.ac.in
<ali1234> and configure found libido but the compile still doesn't see it
<ali1234> ah i see, i need to add it to the Makefile.am inside the source dir
<ali1234> well, it compiled...
<ali1234> the changes all looks sensible too
<ali1234> but for some reason it doesn't work
#xubuntu-devel 2013-09-01
<ali1234> this is nearly working...
<ali1234> it's loading the indicators and starting the services, but then crashing
<ali1234> haha, it's crashing because indicator-datetime is super wide
<ali1234> it doesn't like indicator-session either, another wide one
<ali1234> ok i removed all the indicator-ngs except sound menu, and it works
<Unit193> ochosi: ^  Workin' but not for long ones.
<ali1234> is that a known issue?
<ali1234> everything in the sound menu seems to work (except the things that are currently known to be broken)
<ali1234> hmm it looks like it's not the wide ones that make it crash
<ali1234> maybe it's ones that don't want to show themselves
<ali1234> i see the problem
<ali1234> it crashes if it is small and it has no icon
<ali1234> hmm ok, they all work except the keyboard one, which has neither an icon nor a label and therefore triggers a corner case null pointer dereference
<ali1234> screenshot: https://plus.google.com/117474986382867317779/posts/R1coXZ1iX3N
<OvenWerk1> looks wonderful (and unbroken ;)
<ali1234> ah the broken thing in sound menu is that mouse wheel over the main icon doesn't work, but that's currently broken in unity too afaik
<Unit193> Dang, that's the one I use a lot. :/
<ali1234> yeah me too
<micahg> Noskcaj: we can take it under the pkg-xubuntu team (once I get it created)
<micahg> assuming no one in pkg-gnome wants it
<ochosi> ali1234: have you updated your indicator-plugin lately? there is an important icon-fix that landed two days ago or so
<ali1234> yes i pulled before starting this
<ali1234> i'm prepare a pull request now
<ali1234> but i need to fix the coding style and also make it work with the white/blacklisting
<ochosi> ok, good to know
<ali1234> nearly done tho
<Noskcaj> micahg, gnome's reply was they have too many packages already and shotwell is more "gnome"
<Noskcaj> When do you expect to have the pkg-xubuntu team ready?
<ochosi> ali1234: sweet!
<ochosi> ali1234: and please do get in direct contact with andrzejr, justnso that the work isnt done twice
<ochosi> also, as micahg said this might go into backports, so maybe it isnt alltoolate
<micahg> Noskcaj: I have to find a DD to create it apparently, will try in the next week
<Noskcaj> micahg, maybe on of the pkg-xfce guys might help us?
<micahg> Noskcaj: I've got plenty of DDs to ask :), I just have to figure out who to victim^Wask for assistance
<Unit193> Ahaha! :D
<Noskcaj> ok
<micahg> not too late if it's stable and we can get enough testing for the rdepends
<micahg> ochosi: ali1234 ^^
<ochosi> i think the most active team this cycle were testers, so there's still hope then 
<Noskcaj> ochosi, let me know if you want me to test anything
<ochosi> ali1234: i noticed the bug with the scrollwheel too, but it cant be too hard to fix
<Unit193> Noskcaj: Did you want to test your OEM branch?
<ali1234> ochosi: maybe we're simply not passing it through - but when the indicator itself is broken it's hard to tell
<Noskcaj> Unit193, I could, if no one  else is
<ochosi> ali1234: yeah, or maybe there are some gtk3 specific changes, havent looked at the code yet
<ochosi> ok, folks, my train is close to the border
<ochosi> nighht everyone
<ali1234> ok, the code is here: https://github.com/ali1234/xfce4-indicator-applet/commits/indicator-ng
<ali1234> i've sent it to andrzejr too
<ali1234> anywhere else i should send it?
<ochosi> ali1234: no, andrzejr is taking care of it
<ochosi> so it should be sufficient to send it to him
<ochosi> ali1234: oh, and just to be sure you could/should join #xfce-dev, because that's where he hangs out
 * Noskcaj just turned his computer on to 10 apport messages
<ochosi> ali1234: if possible, could you give micahg a quick review of the stability/status of the gtk3 indicators in 13.10
<ali1234> where?
<ochosi> just here
<ali1234> ok. well, everything seems to work except for the keyboard indicator, which leaves a blank space if installed. i'm not quite sure why
<ali1234> and the mousewheel maybe broken, but i can't tell
<ali1234> and also all the "edit" items in the menus try to load the wrong configuration tools, often they don't work at all because they have OnlyShowIn=Unity in the .desktops (this affects gnome too though)
<ochosi> micahg: ^
<ochosi> any stability concerns? crashes?
<micahg> hrm, we can get those fixed too
<micahg> can we start a blueprint or pad with all the current bugs/things we need to fix to make this work
<ali1234> i haven't seen it crash at all, it's only been a day though
<ali1234> the network, sound, and messaging indicators work perfectly except maybe for mouse scrolling on the sound icon
<ali1234> the changes for indicator-ng are actually even more simple than i first though - if there was no need to support the two different systems, the patch would literally be about three lines
<micahg> knome: should I add gtk-theme-config to our -desktop?
#xubuntu-devel 2014-08-25
<bluesabre> hey guys
<bluesabre> ochosi: xubuntu-artwork uploaded, thanks!
<Luyin> hi guys, I'd like to contribute to the development of Xubuntu. I'm a total beginner at programming, but I might be of some use when it comes to writing FAQs, documentation and translation, and I can test packages and help finding bugs.
<Noskcaj> Luyin, Welcome to the team
<Luyin> thanks Noskcaj 
<Noskcaj> our head of QA (testing) should be around in an hour or two if that's what you want to get into
<Noskcaj> You mentioned translation, what languages do you know?
<Luyin> Noskcaj: english and german (and some probably unuseful stuff like latin and ancient greek ;)
<Noskcaj> If you want to do translations, look at https://wiki.xfce.org/translations and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGermanTranslators
<Noskcaj> and slickymaster is the documentation lead
<ochosi> bluesabre: thanks a bunch!
<Luyin> thanks for the info, Noskcaj, I'll look into it
<Noskcaj> great
<Noskcaj> evening elfy 
<elfy> hi Noskcaj 
<Noskcaj> Luyin, elfy is our QA lead, if it's testing you want to be involved in, talk to him
<Luyin> hi elfy 
<elfy> hi Luyin 
<Luyin> elfy: I just said I'd like to contribute with translations (English, German), documentation, FAQ; testing packages, reporting bugs, and the like. I don't programme (except for some small perl scripts), but I thought I might be of some use
<elfy> Luyin: yep I'd just read the backlog, docs and faq stuff ->slickymaster and knome
<elfy> I don't programmer either ;)
<Luyin> ok :)
<elfy> as far as testing goes - we're constantly doing 2 things - image testing and package testing
<elfy> do you have a launchpad account?
<Luyin> elfy: yes I do
<elfy> okey doke - and are you actually using 14.10 daily - or still using 14.04 ?
<Luyin> elfy: I'm using 14.04 for productivity. But I can install 14.10 dailies in VMs
<elfy> cool 
<Luyin> alternatively, I've got a spare laptop for playing around, but I'd like to stick witht the VMs as long as that's possible
<elfy> so basically daily tests for images are at http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/315/builds
<elfy> and the package tests are at http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/316/builds/67147/testcases
<elfy> so - install vm - pick a test run it- report the result on the relevant tracker and I'll be happy chappy :)
<Luyin> all right :) I'll start this evening after work. looking forward to it!
<elfy> join the dev m/l and also the LP testers group - most detail is on http://xubuntu.org/contribute/qa/
<elfy> you'll see calls from me when we're testing specific things - this week we'll be testing the beta image
<elfy> that'll be important :)
<elfy> Luyin: what timezone are you in?
<Luyin> elfy: germany, Berlin
<elfy> Luyin: nice - so I should be more or less about when you are if you need anything, other wise anyone should be able to help you :)
<Luyin> elfy: ok great, thanks :)
<brainwash> Luyin: welcome :)
<brainwash> Luyin: I suggest that you also create an account for the Xfce bug tracker https://bugzilla.xfce.org/
<brainwash> so you can create upstream bug reports or add comments to them
<Luyin> thanks brainwash, I'll do that
<elfy> morning brainwash 
<brainwash> hey elfy 
<Luyin> ok, a whole lot of new bookmarks to go through, hehe
<elfy> :)
<elfy> Unit193: so why is the mini iso looking for 3.16.0-6-generic instead of current
<elfy> ochosi: yea, got an issue with the mini iso and kernel modules currently - all come to a standstill, I'll test the testcase against the trusty one - so we can get the tracker set up now at least
<elfy> I'd got talk to cjwatson but he'll be having the day off like I am
<elfy> hi slickymaster 
<elfy> work:p
<slickymasterWork> hi elfy 
<elfy> left a message in -release for the time being
<elfy> slickymasterWork: someone called Luyin is floating about wanting to get involved, europe timezone which helps, I've dealt with the QA side, but "I just said I'd like to contribute with translations (English, German), documentation, FAQ; testing packages, reporting bugs, and the like"
<elfy> so keep an eye out :)
<slickymasterWork> I will elfy. Was he about here, in the channel?
<elfy> yep, still is :)
<slickymasterWork> ok, thanks for the heads up elfy 
 * slickymasterWork is reading through the weekend logs
<elfy> :)
<ochosi> elfy: ok, thanks!
<slickymasterWork> morning ochosi 
<ochosi> hey slickymasterWork 
<Luyin> slickymasterWork: I'm here ;)
<slickymasterWork> Ihey there Luyin 
<Luyin> hi slickymasterWork 
<slickymasterWork> I ear you're willing to help us, do you have any questions/doubts I can help you with?
<slickymasterWork> re: documentations, translations, etc
<slickymasterWork> Luyin: ^^
<Luyin> slickymasterWork: actually, at the moment, no. I got a lot of useful links to read which I'll do by the time I'm finished at work and I'm home, and then I'll see what's next ;)
<slickymasterWork> great Luyin. In the meanwhile I'll provide you one other link you could start on -> https://translations.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs/utopic/+pots/desktop-guide/de/+translate
<slickymasterWork> do you already have a LP account, Luyin?
<Luyin> slickymaster: yes, the email's onkel-pflaume@web.de
<slickymasterWork> Luyin: every help is welcome, be it proof-reading spelling and grammar, checking consistency of formatting, checking consistency of language and style or writing glossary entries and adding entries to the index of the xubuntu documentation
<slickymasterWork> just on last link Luyin -> http://xubuntu.org/contribute/support_documentation/
<slickymasterWork> Luyin, if you have any doubts don't hesitate to ping me
<Luyin> slickymasterWork: all right!
<slickymasterWork> np Luyin. It's good to have you ~aboard
<Luyin> thanks!
<knome> hey Luyin
<Luyin> hi knome 
<elfy> ochosi: damn thing is booting now ... 
<slickymasterWork> key knome 
<slickymasterWork> o/
<slickymasterWork> s/key/hey
<knome> key slickymasterWork, and hey too ;)
<slickymasterWork> :)
<knome> slickymasterWork, you're the key slickymasterWork of this team!
<knome> no other slickymasterWork would do
<slickymasterWork> only you to make laugh on a monday morning knome 
<slickymasterWork> + me
<knome> good ;)
 * knome cheers for no work mail in inbox
<knome> now let's start mailing other people! :P
<elfy> hi knome 
<knome> hey elfy :)
<ochosi> elfy: wait, you make it sound like that's a bad thing...? :)
<elfy> well yea - it's conspired to make me look dafter than I am :D
<ochosi> hihi
<ochosi> bbl
<elfy> so - should have the test up and ready to roll soon - but I'll not be calling until beta 1 is done and dusted
<elfy> cya later ochosi 
<brainwash> bluesabre: more and more people complain about the behavior change caused by the latest xfpm bug fix update in trusty
<brainwash> which is bug 1349056
<ubottu> bug 1349056 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu) "xfce4-power-manager doesn't suspend on lid closed (regression)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1349056
<brainwash> xfpm has stopped to inhibit logind once again or sth like that
<elfy> loads of updates for xubuntu website http://en.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-250814-102355.php
<brainwash> xubuntu website?!
<elfy> yea - update mangler mangling again perhaps :)
<brainwash> weird grouping of updates
<elfy> indeed, first time I've seen it say anything about xubuntu website :)
<brainwash> don't use this evil piece of software :>
<elfy> I don't very often, I just let it pretend to be used - I am after all testing the dev version :D
<bluesabre> brainwash: more and more people are basically following their own steps to fix the problem, instead of what we outline... they even that their xfconf settings for xfpm are incorrect.
<bluesabre> it sounds like they are skipping the "Press Apply" step to me.
<brainwash> ah, so it's just a misconfiguration
<bluesabre> possibly
<brainwash> and the default setup (clean install) should be OK
<bluesabre> ochosi, can you and eric check it out?
<bluesabre> yeah, default should work, we even had verified fixes from several users
<bluesabre> or that they are having a bug at a different step, where the login screen is black
<bluesabre> more and more, it sounds like X failing on VT switch
<bluesabre> and I'd argue, that's not quite our fault
<elfy> \o/ installing xubuntu minimal now 
<bluesabre> I'd suggest leaving a comment to run this command: xfconf-query -c xfce4-power-manager -p /xfce4-power-manager/logind-handle-lid-switch -s false
<bluesabre> which toggles the setting when clicking apply off, apply on
<brainwash> bluesabre: ok, will do
<bluesabre> thanks
<Unit193> elfy: Jump from Trusty to Utopic or something?
<elfy> Unit193: not sure - but I go the mini again and it's installing, very odd - must have not got the new image when I thought I did
<Unit193> Yeah not sure, when I tested it it worked fine. :/
<elfy> who knows - anyway it's almost finished now, checking the testcase, will get that up for merge and sync shortly, balloons is going to sort the tracker for me, then we can call next week for it and move the damn things from to do/doing to done :)
<Unit193> Thanks a ton, yeah that'll be nice.
<Unit193> ochosi: ^ status.
<Unit193> (Didn't get the link to the testcase before I tried it, but I could try it again.)
<elfy> the updated one is only local - the pad one is wrong in places
<Unit193> bluesabre: As to what to do, could wait and hold off for a new upstream release, or just go with http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/apt-offline/apt-offline.git/commit/?id=debf1ea478ec05bbfea4005156c1652af69ebd80 and upload, fixing Bug #1357217.
<ubottu> bug 1357217 in apt-offline (Ubuntu) "Something is wrong with the apt system." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1357217
<Unit193> elfy: Oh hrm, seem to missed them, sorry.
<elfy> Unit193: s'ok :) that's why more than 2 eyes is good 
<bluesabre> Unit193: is apt-offline in the xubuntu packageset?
<Unit193> Yes.
<Unit193> But, haven't personally heard what upstream plans to do.
<Unit193> (Commented because it's seeded, but broken thus useless right now.)
<bluesabre> Sweet
<bluesabre> Upstream might take a while, we can deliver an ubuntu patch for now
<Unit193> OK, thanks.
<Unit193> Think that's the only status update for now.
<elfy> Unit193: ok - that's all done, mp done - just got to wait for balloons now
<elfy> I'll grab him this afternoon
<Unit193> Great.
<bluesabre> Unit193: want to make the patched package and score a sponsored upload?
<bluesabre> ;)
<slickymasterWork> elfy, do you want me to comment on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-tests/+bug/1360353 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1360353 in Ubuntu Manual Tests "Xubuntu Minimal image test required" [Medium,Fix committed]
<Unit193> bluesabre: It's native, nope. :D
<elfy> slickymasterWork: you can if you like - though I assume you mean the mp 
<Unit193> Though I can of course, if you'd like.
<elfy> slickymasterWork: it'd possibly be better if I can get it all synced so balloons can just deal with the tracker
<knome> Unit193, that'd be great, on your way to per-package upload rights ;)
<bluesabre> If you've got the time, otherwise remind me about it tonight/tomorrow
<slickymasterWork> yes, I meant the MP, of course ;)
<Unit193> knome: I'm not on my way, silly. :D
<knome> Unit193, yeeees you are.
<elfy> slickymasterWork: ta :)
<slickymasterWork> np elfy 
<Unit193> bluesabre: I think https://sigma.unit193.net/source/apt-offline_1.3.1ubuntu1.dsc looks right...
<Unit193> bluesabre: menulibre is in the packageset.  Also, syncs are uploads.
<bluesabre> hm
<bluesabre> why did I get rejected then when I tried to push menulibre 2.0.5 for trusty for sru?
<Unit193> You are packageset for Xubuntu Utopic+
<bluesabre> I thought they enabled it for trusty as well
<bluesabre> also, where do you view these stats?
<bluesabre> I dig around a lot and think I get the right info
<Unit193> Oh, that's been changed, yeah.  I see, thought you meant menulibre/utopic, it's still not in trusty, nevermind.
<bluesabre> but yeah, is there a link with packageset info, or a command?
<Unit193> mugshot and whiskermenu are both not in there.  ubuntu-upload-permission, http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/packagesets/
 * bluesabre bookmarks
<Unit193> Just bookmark/remember people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive for that matter.
<bluesabre> nice
 * elfy did too
<Unit193> bluesabre: Ping you tonight with the link, or you'll remember?
<bluesabre> I'll probably remember.
<knome> heh, there's weird packages in the xubuntu packageset
<knome> like elyxer
<Unit193> Mhmm.
<Unit193> OK, debdiff added too.
<knome> bluesabre, break it break it!!
<bluesabre> Unit193: should we use quilt with native packages?
<Unit193> It's native, not quilt, so I'm going with no.  debian-installer and apt both also just make direct changes.  Also, IMO not quite as bad as it'd normally be, as I'm sure we'll sync the next release for V, right?
<bluesabre> right
<bluesabre> ok
<bluesabre> I'll upload it when I get back tonight
<bluesabre> going to see doctor who tonight in the theater
<bluesabre> so, I'll be on late
<elfy> do you want to know what happens before you go?
<elfy> :p
<bluesabre> nope
<bluesabre> kthxbai
<elfy> heh
<Unit193> bluesabre: Have fun!  Dressing up?  Want me to tell you about the new doctor? :D
<bluesabre> nah
<knome> Unit193, bluesabre: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Processes#Maintained_packages
<bluesabre> Some of our friends are dressing up, but we're still new to this whole thing :)
<Unit193> That works, knome.
<bluesabre> theres an extra space before  Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Codename
<Unit193> bluesabre: Oh please tell me Matt wasn't your fav?
<knome> bluesabre, lol.
<bluesabre> Unit193: so far, I like Matt best, 10 second, don't really care for 9
<bluesabre> haven't watched any classic
<Unit193> Geeez... :(
<knome> bluesabre, can't see that in the moin markup :)
<bluesabre> knome: the html parser is hallucinating
<bluesabre> ;)
<knome> yep.
<brainwash> bluesabre: do we need a bug fix release for trusty to fix bug 1313838 ?
<ubottu> bug 1313838 in light-locker-settings (Ubuntu) "light-locker-settings crashes on start with a TypeErorr" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1313838
<brainwash> is it sru worthy? there is a workaround to fix it manually
<bluesabre> I didn't fix that with the latest version uploaded to trusty? I'll take a look later and SRU it in if needed.
<bluesabre> heading out now, bbl
<ochosi> bluesabre: check out what exactly?
<Luyin> bbl
<Unit193> xfce4-power-manager 1.3.2-1 landed in Debian experimental, nothing in the changelog of interest.
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, Do you have pkg-xfce commit access?
<Unit193> bluesabre: Bumped the xfpm packaging ver.
<brainwash> skellat: can we close bug 1211933 ? I'm not familiar with this issue, but the report is still open and there does not seem to be any progress
<ubottu> bug 1211933 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "mkinitramfs blows up on casper dependency" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1211933
<skellat> brainwash: The problem isn't on our end but on Ubuntu Customization Kit's.  LP Bug 840094 is what caused the change that UCK doesn't expect that caused the bug.  Frankly we'd need to re-test with something recent to see if this is still happening.  Mark it Incomplete and it'll expire out in 60 days barring any further action.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 840094 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu Precise) "[xubuntu] There is no screen title" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/840094
<Unit193> bluesabre: Erm, xfce4-power-manager-plugins depends on xfce4-panel, didn't you want to bundle all plugins into, well, the plugins package?
<Unit193> bluesabre: Would you prefer to drop the dep, or xfce4-panel | lxpanel  it?
#xubuntu-devel 2014-08-26
<bluesabre> Unit193: I'd say, do xfce4-panel | lxpanel
<bluesabre> the package is useless otherwise
<Unit193> Sounds fine to me, then.  Versioned of course, just like the configure script is.
<pleia2> can haz b1 image candidate soon
<skellat> How many hours until meeting?
<Unit193> Crap, xfce4-panel (>= 4.11), xfce4-panel (<< 4.13) is added by debhelper.  bluesabre: For sure punting to you. :P
<bluesabre> cripes
<bluesabre> crepes?
<Unit193> Yeeep.
<Unit193> bluesabre: I confirmed it shows up in the panel (more or less) in a VM, good enough to go?
<bluesabre> Sounds good to me
<Unit193> OK, I'll file the lxpanel side of things to take some off you at least.
<pleia2> skellat: 8 I think
<bluesabre> Unit193: great, thanks
<bluesabre> Unit193: but right, I do not have pkg-xfce
<Unit193> Noskcaj: ^
<Unit193> Bug #1361459 
<ubottu> bug 1361459 in lxpanel (Ubuntu) "lxpanel is missing the development files" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1361459
<bluesabre> Unit193: lxpanel or lxpanel-dev?
<Unit193> bluesabre: There is no lxpanel-dev yet, and my proposed patch does not create one.
<bluesabre> alrighty
<Unit193> Velociraptor might get one though.
<bluesabre> we'll cross that bridge when we HOLY CRAP DINOSAURS
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> :D
<bluesabre> Unit193: pulling your apt-offline now
<Unit193> Thanks!
<bluesabre> Unit193: and just because I don't fully understand the issue, assuming this fixes it?
<skellat> bluesabre: The version in archive makes a call to apt with a flag that doesn't exist anymore.  Unit193's version cherrypicks the upstream fix that avoids the now non-existent flag to apt.
<bluesabre> excellent, thanks for the explanation skellat
<Unit193> bluesabre: I did extensive testing since the line offset was so far, it works.
<bluesabre> thanks guys
<Unit193> bluesabre: http://sigma.unit193.net/source/apt-offline_1.3.1ubuntu1.debdiff if that helps, I uploaded it last night too.
<Unit193> Sure thing, doc.
<bluesabre> ok, pushing now
<skellat> Unit193, bluesabre: After the updated version marinates a couple days I'll probably have to get started with the SRU paperwork to get that to go back to 14.04
<bluesabre> sounds good
<Unit193> What he said, I wasn't planning on SRU'ing, so thanks.
<bluesabre> you guys have anything to add to the meeting agenda for tomorrow?
<bluesabre> I'll add something after the wiki times out a few times and I am logged in
<Unit193> Looks short.
<skellat> We have the gksu discussion
<skellat> We get to discuss how verily borken gksu is
<Unit193> That'll be fun...
<Unit193> Meh, it's not that broken.
<skellat> Unit193: Debian's got some "fun" bugs with it: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?repeatmerged=no&src=gksu
<bluesabre> thankfully most of our discussion is "we removed that things ages ago, and now we have pkexec policies, yay!"
<skellat> Which is EXCELLENT!
<Unit193> Meh, still not helpful, but I'm on the "losing side" anyway.
<skellat> This is scary: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gksu/+bugs?orderby=-id&start=0
<Unit193> bluesabre: BTW, for future uploads, dsc is fine?  You want both a dsc and debdiff?  Just debdiff?
<bluesabre> Unit193: dsc is fine, I usually debdiff anyway
<elfy> skellat: I'm pleased you're so happy that gksu is gone - perhaps team should have spent more time in the last 2 years dealing with the fact it's gone AND the fact that team left users with no option but to reinstall it as no-one bothered with actually dealing with pkexec - excellent
<Unit193> pkexec feels like a bandaid and we've fixed packages we ship, but that's it.  The "fix" is not even as useful as what it's fixing, seems like it'd be like switching to wayland now, too early and undercooked.
<elfy> yep I agree
<elfy> nto quite sure why we're just following ubuntu along to be honest
<Unit193> Using pkexec: "gtk.GtkWarning: could not open display" and a crash dialog, "Gtk-WARNING **: cannot open display:" but at least no crash dialog this time!  Yeah, if that's the case may as well use Mir too.
<Unit193> But anyway, Ubuntu (or Xubuntu) changes things, I revert them.  Nothing new really and means I can actually launch applications.
<elfy> yep - I use gksu here 
<elfy> and will continue to tell people to install it
<Unit193> Mhmm.
<Unit193> Want a fun game?
<Unit193> !find /usr/share/polkit-1/actions/com.ubuntu.pkexec utopic
<ubottu> File /usr/share/polkit-1/actions/com.ubuntu.pkexec found in gparted, gufw, synaptic, xubuntu-default-settings
<Unit193> Tadaaa!
<Unit193> apt-cache rdepends gksu | wc -l: 42
<elfy> I guess for pkexec to be any real use it should be able to work like gksu does - for anything that someone wants
<elfy> I've lost interest now
<Unit193> OK, sounds fine to me.
<knome> brainwash, there won't be a xubuntu 12.04.5, we didn't participate (no HWE, no new worthy enough stuff from us)
<brainwash> but there are daily build for it
<brainwash> builds
<brainwash> ok, people should switch to 14.04 anyway :)
<knome> can't see any daily builds in the ISO tracker; if there are other, they are probably built automatically
<brainwash> so it's just the usual daily build
<brainwash> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/precise/daily-live/current/
<brainwash> labeled "Xubuntu 12.04.5 LTS"
<knome> yep
<slickymasterWork> morning everyone
<knome> hello slickymasterWork 
<slickymasterWork> hi knome :)
<slickymasterWork> still flooded with work?
<knome> a bit less, but still a bit :)
<knome> and waiting for the next wave
<slickymasterWork> waiting for waves is cool
 * slickymasterWork does it a lot
<knome> heh
<knome> i believe you're talking about different kind of waves here ;)
<slickymasterWork> yes, I am. knome, we still have the docs side of including pkexec policy files in favor of gksu action item open
<knome> yeah...
<knome> i might actually be able to sit down with the issue today, depending what the client who tried to call me earlier needs from me..
<slickymasterWork> I'm here :)
<slickymasterWork> it's going to be brought up in today's meeting, for sure
<knome> absolutely.
<knome> though i already forgot we had a meeting :P
<knome> and so soon now too!
<slickymasterWork> mornings meetings
<brainwash> bluesabre: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9672#c5 makes we wonder.. I need to find more information about why thunar does not support desktop actions (anymore)
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 9672 in General "Add desktop actions to parole.desktop" [Enhancement,Resolved: wontfix]
<ochosi> morning everyone
<brainwash> hi ochosi 
<bluesabre> morning guys
<ochosi> sorry, i might need an extra 5-10mins...
<ochosi> (if you wanna start the meeting feel free to)
<bluesabre> brainwash: let me know if you find anything, but my comment basically sums up my thoughts on the matter
<bluesabre> elfy: I really expected to see utopic beta on this list http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
<bluesabre> tonight probably?
<knome> poke balloons
<bluesabre> ... and they pop
<knome> :P
<bluesabre> ;)
<skellat> o/
<bluesabre> hey skellat
<skellat> Did I miss the meeting?
<bluesabre> nope
<bluesabre> ochosi running late, and we're all patient folks
<ochosi> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Aug 26 10:05:42 2014 UTC.  The chair is ochosi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<ochosi> hey !team
<ochosi> !team | hey everyone, meeting time
<ubottu> hey everyone, meeting time: bluesabre, elfy, GridCube, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, mr_pouit, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, skellat, slickymaster, Unit193
<bluesabre> hey ochosi
<skellat> o/
<ochosi> just as a disclaimer, i might get a phone-call during the meeting that i'll have to take
<ochosi> so don't worry if i'm suddenly mute :)
<ochosi> (i didn't die in front of my computer in that case)
<bluesabre> as far as we'll know
<ochosi> :]
<ochosi> soo, who's here apart from bluesabre and skellat?
<slickymasterWork> o/
<ochosi> right, so let's get on with it
<ochosi> #topic gksu/do versus pkexec
<ochosi> we still have that on our agenda
<ochosi> bluesabre: wanna #info something on that?
<bluesabre> #info we now have pkexec policy files for thunar and mousepad
<bluesabre> they, among other things, need translations https://translations.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings
<ochosi> what's the doc-status on this?
<slickymasterWork> on what ochosi? pkexec?
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> bluesabre: so a call for translations to the ML maybe?
<slickymasterWork> well, knome and I haven't started working on that
<ochosi> but you have it on the radar
<slickymasterWork> but we're planning to do it shortly
<slickymasterWork> yeaps
<ochosi> #info slickymaster and knome will work on docs for pkexec
<ochosi> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: INFO
<ochosi> #action slickymaster and knome will work on docs for pkexec
<meetingology> ACTION: slickymaster and knome will work on docs for pkexec
<bluesabre> ochosi: yeah, need to do a call for all of our projects
<bluesabre> though, I think there was one already recently
<ochosi> bluesabre: mind doing that (since you seem to have the overview)?
<bluesabre> sure thing
<slickymasterWork> bluesabre: have upload the new strings for menulibre?
<slickymasterWork> + you
<ochosi> #action bluesabre will send a call for translations for all our projects to the mailinglist
<meetingology> ACTION: bluesabre will send a call for translations for all our projects to the mailinglist
<bluesabre> slickymasterWork, not yet, to do shortly
<slickymasterWork> ok
<bluesabre> was going to do it sunday with other translation releases, got derailed by gtk-theme-config
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> so, anything else on pkexec?
<bluesabre> We have thunar and mousepad policies, need anything else?
<knome> slickymasterWork, looks like i'll have some time today
<knome> bluesabre, tell me, why does mousepad need it?
<ochosi> bluesabre: well we've asked around (also on the ML), and that's what ppl came up with
<slickymasterWork> great knome. I'll ready whenever you are
<knome> because it can save files to system locations?
<slickymasterWork> + be
<ochosi> knome: ppl might want an editor for config files? (e.g. lightdm config)
<bluesabre> knome: dunno, I did what the others told me :)
<bluesabre> ^
<ochosi> or logind policies or whatever
<knome> ochosi, right, so wouldn't any app that saves files potentially need a policy, like transmission
<bluesabre> edit != save
<knome> what about abiword/gnumeric?
<knome> aha
<skellat> knome: In general you would not be using transmission to land a file straight to /var/apt/cache
<ochosi> i'd do this on an on-demand basis, tbh
<skellat> For example
<slickymasterWork> bluesabre, what about for xfce4-terminal?
<bluesabre> anyway, I see this going down the wrong trail :)
<knome> i'm just asking
<knome> argument accepted.
<ochosi> slickymasterWork: the terminal really doesn't need one
<knome> so we're covering the "sensible" use cases that might need policies
<ochosi> you can execute super-user commands in a terminal anyway
<knome> skellat, thank you sherlock ;)
<bluesabre> haha
<slickymasterWork> ochosi, yes, I agree with you. was just asking because it was included in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Utopic/Pkexec
<skellat> knome: If memory serves, there actually is an apt transport package for using bittorrent if you really wanted to for some reason
<ochosi> slickymasterWork: yeah, that was a place set up for suggestions (incl. some from the community)
<slickymasterWork> ok, got it
<knome> skellat, sure. and some people might want to download torrents to system directories, like sharing an ISO with all the users but not let them touch it.
<ochosi> so we took thunar and mousepad cause they made some sense, but not the terminal
<ochosi> ok, let's get back on the topic
<ochosi> anything else on pkexec?
<bluesabre> not from me
<knome> nope
<skellat> Nope
<ochosi> ok, moving along
<ochosi> #topic Open Action Items
<ochosi> from last time there are a few open action items
<ochosi> knome: any clue whether pleia2 started with the marketing support for the xfce bounty programme?
<ochosi> or shall we carry that along to the next meeting?
<knome> i imagine not.
<knome> let's carry it on
<ochosi> #action marketing team to support xfce's bug bounty programme by informing people on website and social media 
<meetingology> ACTION: marketing team to support xfce's bug bounty programme by informing people on website and social media
<ochosi> bluesabre: what about your action items?
<bluesabre> #info DONE: bluesabre to put list of xubuntu packageset packages on wiki (somebody beat me to it by adding the link)
<bluesabre> #info DONE: bluesabre to upload new xubuntu-default-settings 
<bluesabre> #info DONE: bluesabre to enable clutter in parole, set as default in xubuntu-default-settings 
<ochosi> oh, where is that page?
<knome> bluesabre, #done too :P
<bluesabre> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Processes#Maintained_packages
<ochosi> huhu
<knome> i want and added that link :)
<skellat> #info DONE: skellat to mail list to see if anyone wishes to identify specific low-hanging fruit tasks for the Global Jam 
<bluesabre> 06:05 <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<knome> bluesabre, sorry for taking your item..
<knome> bluesabre, that's broken. lderan!
<bluesabre> knome: somebody had to do them, and I was dragging my feet ;)
<ochosi> knome: i guess we already carried your item forward...
<knome> ochosi, yep, that's fine.
<ochosi> #topic Team Updates
<ochosi> #info ochosi did a new release of the icon theme that adds support for the new power-manager amongst others
<bluesabre> #info new versions of catfish, lightdm-gtk-greeter, xfce4-power-settings, xfce4-settings, light-locker-settings have landed
<ochosi> \o/
<ochosi> nice work bluesabre 
<ochosi> (even though i'm not sure what xfce4-power-settings is, must be a new project ;))
<bluesabre> whatever that thing is, obviously not my project ;)
<bluesabre> #undo
<bluesabre> er not
<bluesabre> ;)
<ochosi> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: INFO
<ochosi> bluesabre: now feel free to go again ;)
<ochosi> #chair bluesabre 
<meetingology> Current chairs: bluesabre ochosi
<bluesabre> #info new versions of catfish, lightdm-gtk-greeter, xfce4-power-manager, xfce4-settings, light-locker-settings have landed
<ochosi> #info ochosi talked to ubuntu devs about gtk3.12 affecting our default applications like evince. they will all remain in their gtk3.10 versions for 14.10, so we have nothing to worry about with headerbars and client-side decorations
<ochosi> if anyone spots problems with that ^ though, be sure to let me know
<bluesabre> #info outside of that, headerbars and CSD work well enough with xubuntu... with compositor on they are fine, with it off, they have an extra xfwm titlebar on top
 * bluesabre did some testing on the side
<ochosi> cool
<ochosi> saw the screenshots, it's okay
<ochosi> even if it isn't pretyt
<ochosi> pretty
<bluesabre> yup, not broken = yay
<ochosi> :D
<ochosi> any other updates..?
<bluesabre> oh yeah
<bluesabre> #info apt-offline is fixed in utopic, courtesy of Unit193
<ochosi> nice
<ochosi> ok, moving along...
<ochosi> #topic Announcements
<ochosi> #info Beta1 freeze is in effect
<knome> #info Beta1 releas on Thursday
<knome> bah
<knome> releas releas!
<ochosi> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: INFO
<ochosi> #chair knome 
<meetingology> Current chairs: bluesabre knome ochosi
<knome> #info Beta1 release on Thursday
<bluesabre> #info Feature freeze is also in effect
<ochosi> i guess we're in bugfix mode then
<knome> #info Following freezes: UI freeze Sept 11, Doc string freeze Sept 18 ...
<ochosi> are there any blockers any of you have been seeing? (those of you who have been testing utopic i mean)
<bluesabre> so far, we're pretty clear... things have stabilized a lot in the past week or so
<ochosi> good to hear
<ochosi> i'm actually just running updates on my utopic VM now
<knome> if i have any time and motivation, i'll try to set up my old laptop for testing
<ochosi> ok, any other announcements?
<ochosi> knome: that'd be nice!
<knome> otherwise i guess i'll just have to do VM testing at some point (again)
 * slickymasterWork will continue with VM testing
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> #info Beta 1 is Thursday, we'll need iso testing, see elfy's mail: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2014-August/010387.html
<ochosi> a bit offtopic, but i have to admit i really enjoy the way whiskermenu works in utopic. with all the settings dialogs there, it's quite the universal launcher
<ochosi> yeah, i'll try to do a test this week
<ochosi> would be great if others could join in too
<ochosi> more announcements?
<knome> i'll try to squeeze some testing in, but tbh, schedule looks meh
<bluesabre> yeah, was going to do one this morning, beta1 is not on the list yet it seems
<slickymasterWork> I'll do some
<bluesabre> great :D
<ochosi> yup, elfy will be happy to see those flowing in :)
<ochosi> #topic Discussion
<ochosi> #subtopic Incentives to get more people to help with QA and testing
<ochosi> i've discussed this with elfy and knome in this channel previously
<ochosi> but i thought we might want to consider throwing some of the leftover resources we have at people who help with testing
<ochosi> elfy has had a bit of a hard time this cycle finding and motivating folks to run the tests
<ochosi> which is probably partially due to this being LTS+1, partially due to testing not being the most exciting task in the world
<ochosi> (and maybe there are other factors i'm not thinking of now)
<knome> summer?
<ochosi> be that as it may, i think testing and QA is really important for us and we've had a great run in 14.04 with it
<bluesabre> partially due to virtualbox seeming to fail on start
<ochosi> we should try to maintain that somehow and try to get new folks involved in that department
<ochosi> so one idea was to set up a sort of "incentive programme" where e.g. the "tester of the month" gets a xubuntu-sticker in the mail
<ochosi> and the "tester of the cycle" gets a t-shirt
<ochosi> just as examples
<bluesabre> I think that'd be cool
<ochosi> i'd like to hear some opinions on that from you guys
<ochosi> (fwiw, i see a beneficial side-effect in this, we might be able to attract more people to contributing. testing is a good first step of getting familiar with xubuntu and the procedures around it)
<ochosi> slickymasterWork, skellat: opinions on ^ ?
<ochosi> knome: btw, how does that work with the stickers now, can we just order a single one on behalf of somebody else, i.e. get it mailed directly to someone's house?
<bluesabre> the stickers from unixstickers are pretty nice
<slickymasterWork> well, I believe that there are people testing, thing is that most of the people don't report their tests
<knome> ochosi, you'll have to ask pleia2 who set it all up
<ochosi> is what pleia2 set up unixstickers?
<ochosi> slickymasterWork: right, so we might need more incentive to get people to report their tests then i guess
<slickymasterWork> but the incentive program seems a good idea
<bluesabre> yeah, there are definitely people testing, got lots of feedback when I broke shimmer-themes ;)
<knome> to me, it doesn't seem to have any difference if we get completely new testers, or those who just don't report, to actually report tests
<ochosi> +1
<slickymasterWork> yes, the only way they would get rewarded would be measured but the number of reported tests
<bluesabre> yup
<skellat> I agree with knome.  Reporting is the key.
<ochosi> ok, i suggest we let elfy come up with some ideas and vote on it in the next meeting?
<slickymasterWork> wfm
<ochosi> (we might also have to review those options in terms of how much work it actually is to get a sticker sent to someone's house every month)
 * slickymasterWork is aiming for the t-shirt :P
<bluesabre> on a slightly related note, just wondering if there was any progress on this:
<bluesabre> xubutrello: card 22 link
<xubutrello> Couldn't find any card with id: 22. Aborting.
<bluesabre> that never works for me
<bluesabre> https://trello.com/c/835Pk6MH
<ochosi> #action elfy shall set up a page for the QA incentive programme, collecting proposals/ideas for rewards and a general outline of it
<meetingology> ACTION: elfy shall set up a page for the QA incentive programme, collecting proposals/ideas for rewards and a general outline of it
<knome> maybe team members should be not allowed to win :P
<ochosi> awwwwh :)
<slickymasterWork> I want one with xub icon surfing knome 
<ochosi> we can discuss that once elfy has set up that page i guess
<knome> well, it doesn't motivate new contributors..
<ochosi> ok, let's carry on
<ochosi> #subtopic Jenkins for image testing
<ochosi> since bluesabre just brought it up, any idea what that idea was all about? :)
<skellat> Jenkins is a "continuous integration" system but that's all I know about it
<ochosi> i've seen jenkins in action for xfce
<ochosi> and it seems quite good in terms of catching build-time errors
<ochosi> not sure what else it can do
<ochosi> alright, one last topic from my side...
<ochosi> #subtopic Trello and launchpad blueprints (again)
<ochosi> while elfy has synced the two, i really think that for the next cycle we should decide on which one we want to carry on with
<ochosi> using both is tedious and even more annoying than using launchpad during 14.04 was
<ochosi> and i appreciate that knome did put a lot of effort into getting the blueprint system running
<ochosi> so yeah, it's probably too early now, but i'd like us to have this discussion again towards the end of the cycle
<ochosi> and hear how team members felt it went
<bluesabre> sounds good to me
<ochosi> i've personally disliked launchpad for its slowness, but the integration of the bugs and branches etc is quite good
<ochosi> maybe it can be improved somehow
<ochosi> alrighty, from my side, that's it
<ochosi> any other topics for discussion?
<bluesabre> yeah
<ochosi> go ahead :)
<bluesabre> #subtopic UI Updates
<bluesabre> #info lightdm-gtk-greeter no longer supports proper centering, wondering if you guys think we should keep the "kinda-centered" layout, or consider others
<bluesabre> examples, http://imgur.com/a/aSj6W#0
<bluesabre> and not sure if this is info-worthy, but do we want to stick with the desktop icon sizes, or adjust? http://imgur.com/tsLjypk
<ochosi> ah right
<ochosi> yeah, thanks for bringing that up again
<bluesabre> this all comes from xubuntu-default-settings, so changes are quick and easy, but wanted to discuss before UIF
 * slickymasterWork likes the power on right option
<ochosi> i'm leaning towards "clock, power on right" as long as the clock isn't really centered
<slickymasterWork> I'm with you ochosi 
<slickymasterWork> also, IMO we would stick with the desktop icon sizes
<knome> yep, that seems like the best one
<ochosi> it's close to our default panel layout and "clock on right" somehow looks wrong
<bluesabre> and with the icons, you can click the image to make it not tiny
<slickymasterWork> yes
<bluesabre> yeah, I agree with the clock, power on right
<knome> re: desktop 48/64 is ymy favorite
<ochosi> yeah, i somewhat agree with knome on that
<knome> or could be that 32/64 was even better
<knome> anything >64 on tooltip just looks way too huge
<ochosi> also from a technical side, we have a lot of icons for 64px, but not so many for 96px yet
<ochosi> so lotsa potential fuzziness
<bluesabre> My complaint is that with 32, File Syst... is cut off, though I realize this probably happens a lot for other locales
 * slickymasterWork also prefers desktop 48/64
<ochosi> bluesabre: so let's set the tooltip to 64px and see how that looks
<bluesabre> k
<ochosi> i don't mind bumping the size of the icons back to 48px
<ochosi> (call, brb)
<ochosi> sorry about that
<ochosi> bluesabre: so if you don't mind let's start with only the tooltips and if we dislike the 32px then, we bump that too
<ochosi> no need to discuss that in a meeting though
<bluesabre> alrighty
<ochosi> sidenote: i was also considering to make the top panel 26 instead of 24px
<bluesabre> just good to get multiple inputs :)
<bluesabre> yes please
<ochosi> sure
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> only problem atm with that is that the power-manager icon doesn't support it yet
<ochosi> will have to pull a few strings again
<ochosi> anyway...
<bluesabre> oh?
<ochosi> wrapping it up
<ochosi> thanks everyone for the meeting!
<ochosi> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Aug 26 11:14:18 2014 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-08-26-10.05.moin.txt
<bluesabre> woot, thanks ochosi
<ochosi> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-08262014-011422pm.php
<ochosi> this ^ is how it looks with 26px
 * skellat goes back to bed
<bluesabre> actually. looks fine for me at 26px
<ochosi> night skellat 
<bluesabre> are you using png or svg theme?
<ochosi> i'm using whatever is in utopic now
<bluesabre> http://i.imgur.com/HY7fY0Q.png
<ochosi> hm, i guess i know why
<ochosi> i'll fix that...
<ochosi> ok done
<ochosi> argh, someone removed the "we are here" part in the meeting page comments
<ochosi> i guess we're back at the beginning
<knome> i did!
<knome> yes, we are at the beginning
<knome> reason i removed it: it wasn't kept up-to-date...
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> hm :/
<ochosi> i added it back now
<knome> sure
<ochosi> just so *i* remember :)
<knome> just poke your leaders to update it as well ;)
<knome> at least you can determine where in the list we are based on when *you* last held a meeting ;)
<ochosi> exactly :)
<knome> hmm... i just scored validation rights for the finnish translation of wordpress
<knome> (disclaimer: i've translated 0 strings in wordpress to finnish)
<elfy> <bluesabre> elfy: I really expected to see utopic beta on this list http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/ - as soon as I do see something about it I'll ping the m/l with the real url - but from memory on the last alpha - it was all really late and I don't expect it to be different this time
<ochosi> hey elfy 
<elfy> hi 
<elfy> lunchtime - not here much :)
<ochosi> i hope you're fine with us discussing the QA incentive idea despite your absence
<elfy> of course :)
<ochosi> (and assigning a task to you :p)
<elfy> yea saw that
<elfy> I see you're going to be setting the next meeting - so if it's the same sort of time - expect me to not be there :)
<ochosi> well i'm fairly open to different times
<ochosi> so if there is a time that works better for everyone i'm fine with that
<ochosi> but it looks like we don't have a single time
<elfy> moving times about makes it good to get different people to at least get to meetings - I've no problem with that at all :)
<ochosi> yup, actually i think the meeting cycling has been working well this cycle
<elfy> for people that work with computers if it's worktime they've got more chance of attending - if I attend when I'm working I'm likely to crash the van and die :p
<elfy> I like you all - just not that much :D
<ochosi> :D
<ochosi> Unit193: would you happen to know whether lubuntu folks plan to land lxde panel 0.7 in 14.10? i'm mostly wondering because it breaks the xfpm plugin for them
<brainwash> will we remove indicator-power from the seed?
<brainwash> nevermind
<brainwash> already gone
<brainwash> ochosi: will installations upgraded to 14.10 show two battery indicators?
<ochosi> no
<ochosi> the user's panel layout isn't touched
<ochosi> so the xfpm plugin won't be there
<brainwash> ah right
<brainwash> but new user accounts will
<ochosi> yeah, i guess so
<ochosi> but it's easy enough to remove either
<brainwash> luckily :)
<ochosi> wouldn't consider that a huge problem
<elfy> ochosi: they're adding you and me to the contact list for -release stuff
<brainwash> no, just a small annoyance
<ochosi> elfy: yup, noticed. thanks!
<elfy> I thought you would :)
<elfy> and we're all sorted for beta 
<ochosi> thanks a bunch, looking forward to it
<elfy> no need to mail the release list re that
<elfy> unignoring queuebot till I see it built for us :p
<ochosi> bbl
<slickymasterWork> the queuebot is starting to spit the builds
<elfy> ours failed to build ... 
<elfy> <stgraber> Unpacking xubuntu-live-settings (14.10.4) ...
<elfy> <stgraber> dpkg: error processing archive /var/cache/apt/archives/xubuntu-live-settings_14.10.4_all.deb (--unpack):
<elfy> <stgraber>  trying to overwrite '/etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/autostart/light-locker.desktop', which is also in package xubuntu-default-settings 14.10.4
<slickymasterWork> bah
<knome> oops :)
<knome> slickymasterWork, want to get on the doc issue soonish?
 * slickymasterWork is at knome's disposal
<elfy> knome: yea -somewhat an oops :)
<slickymasterWork> let me just start my xubuntu box
<knome> let me also make some coffee...
 * slickymasterWork goes to have a smoke while knome makes his coffee
<knome> sure, ping me when you're back
 * knome eats yoghurt meanwhile
 * elfy does both and sits back to watch 
<knome> lol
<knome> slickymasterWork, there are two occurrences we need to look at:
<knome> wait, three...
<knome> command-line.xml:30
<knome> migrating-upgrading:80
<knome> printing-scanning:119
<slickymasterWork> let me just build the docs quickly knome 
<slickymasterWork> yes, those were the ones from where I removed gksu and add sudo -i to replace it
<knome> yep
<knome> is the new way to do it just: pkexec mousepad /file?
<slickymasterWork> I'm migrating those files from another computer to this one
<slickymasterWork> ok, I have the files here
<knome> i think the latter two are the easy ones
<knome> if "pkexec app parameters" is the right syntax to use, that is
 * slickymasterWork doesn't have a clue of the correct syntax re: pkexec
<knome> yep, that's the right syntax
<knome> so just revert it to almost what it was, but s/gksudo/pkexec/
<slickymasterWork> knome: in migrating-upgrading:80 it refers to xfce4-terminal and there's no policy file for that
<knome> i have no idea why, but the coffee tastes crap..
<slickymasterWork> bad beans, maybe?
<knome> no, the same coffee from the same package has been okay before
<knome> do i have a different version of the file?
<genii> Probably stale coffee
<knome> in my file, it only talks about running update-manager
<slickymasterWork> I've just branched
<knome> genii, like, the one i just brewed? :P
<slickymasterWork> wait, you're right, I didn't read the entire string :P
 * genii sips and contemplates
<knome> slickymasterWork, there you go ;(
 * knome pours genii some more
<genii> Heh, thanks
<knome> slickymasterWork, so, those tho are easy, but what about command-line:30 ?
<slickymasterWork> so something like this knome: "If you would like to install and test the latest development version of Xubuntu before it is released, run <userinput>pkexec update-manager -c -d</userinput> at the command line. This will allow you to upgrade to the current development release.</para>
<knome> yep.
<knome> that's perfect
<knome> we should mention the correct syntax obviously
<knome> but we might want to have another "note" box
<slickymasterWork> that's what I was going to ask you
<knome> to note that the application they will be running might not have a policy file
<knome> ^ last two comments re: command-line:30
<slickymasterWork> ok
<slickymasterWork> let me see how it's now
<slickymasterWork> that string has to be completely re-written 
<knome> yep
<knome> let's put it in a pad
<slickymasterWork> would you do the honors please?
<knome> http://pad.ubuntu.com/wifqBCv3D3
<knome> sure ;)
<slickymasterWork> accessing it
<slickymasterWork> knome: I think it's good
<knome> it's a bit too verbose
<slickymasterWork> I don't, tbh
<slickymasterWork> I think it's quite concise and to the point
<slickymasterWork> one thing though, if we're going to add the note in the command-line.xml:30 chapter, there's no need to do it againf in the other two chapters
<knome> not at all
<knome> the other two are fine with as they are with pkexec instead of sudo -i
<slickymasterWork> yes
<slickymasterWork> but you still don't feel comfortable with the command-line.xml:30 reword
<knome> it's better now
<knome> it's much shorter, and avoids saying things twice
<slickymasterWork> yeaps
<slickymasterWork> I can do a MP tonight, or do you want to do it?
<knome> i can do it, but in that case, paste the other changes to the pad too so i don't have to rethink them ;)
<slickymasterWork> will do it in five minutes
<knome> ta
<slickymasterWork> knome: instead of "...run <userinput>pkexec update-manager -c -d</userinput> at the command line..." why not "...run <userinput>pkexec update-manager -c -d</userinput> at a terminal window..."?
<knome> because it might be a real command line ;)
<slickymasterWork> hmmm... okay
<knome> there is no such thing as "terminal window" if we are literal
<knome> it's just a window of a terminal emulator application
<slickymasterWork> yeah, I know, just if you're really down to earth like
<knome> well the whole section is called "The command line" not "the terminal (window)"
<knome> so it's consistent to keep referring to the command line as well
<slickymasterWork> just putting you on :P
<knome> hah
<slickymasterWork> added those other two to the pad
<slickymasterWork> knome: ^Âª
<knome> yep
<slickymasterWork> why did you strike them?
<knome> "done locally"
 * slickymasterWork for a minute there got scared
<knome> haha
<slickymasterWork> as we're already with our hands dirty knome, what about taking a look at "Update the docs networking section for the new NetworkManager"
<slickymasterWork> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-u-docs
<knome> do you have access to a utopic system?
<slickymasterWork> yeaps
<elfy> don't want to interfere here - but has anyone checked pkexec update-manager -c -d at all
<slickymasterWork> knome: did check the syntax elfy 
<knome> no.
<knome> but that's the pkexec synta
<knome> +x
<elfy> I'd not just replace gksu with pekexec without checking
<knome> i'm PRETTY sure update-manager has a policy file
<knome> i'll check when i run utopic :)
<elfy> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8151101/
<knome> wonder if it's part of release-upgrader :)
<knome> i can't think of any reason why it wouldn't have a policy file.
<slickymasterWork> knome, elfy, https://code.launchpad.net/~mterry/ubuntu-release-upgrader/pkexec
<elfy> no idea - not too worried either tbh - I just install gksu 
<knome> heh
<slickymasterWork> knome: can we postponed the NetworkManager item? something came up here and I'll have to solve it
<knome> yep, i don't have access to a utopic system anyway at least :)
<knome> pushed changes to main branch
<slickymasterWork> thanks, I'll mark the item as done, both in trello and the blueprint
<knome> ta
<elfy> so - looks dodgy for any beta for us then for the moment 
<elfy> also appears that we've not had a daily since the 24th
<pleia2> elfy: ah, was just going to ask about that
<pleia2> was hoping to do some beta preimage tests before I go away again tomorrow
<elfy> yep - looking decidedly dodgy pleia2 
<elfy> even if we get it dealt with - then you've got to wait for the rebuild, then hope that we get time to test it - I'm going to go to bed assuming we'll not be testing beta 1
<knome> or we'll release b1 late
<elfy> but will it be a beta - we'll be back testing dailies, or not - by that point
<knome> we can ask to keep the beta images, up, sure
<knome> -,
<elfy> well - I guess it depends on how many results we're likely to see imo
<elfy> all moot until it gets fixed 
<Unit193> ochosi: No.
<elfy> bluesabre: just noticed what your trello comment was about - jenkins, that always runs - but it's no replacement for people 
<elfy> I didn't see that there were no results for us from the 24th for instance - we've had no builds since then - probably the same thing that's causing the beta build to fail
<elfy> https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Ubiquity/view/Xubuntu/
<Unit193> Right, file upgrade test.
<Unit193> Bah, no report to file.
<elfy> what are you talking about lol
<Unit193> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/322/builds at least for me has no upgrade tests.
<elfy> beta is not building Unit193 
<elfy> stgraber> elfy: xubuntu-live-settings and xubuntu-default-settings both ship the same file, so you get a conflict at install time and dpkg fails
<Unit193> It's an upgrade, it doesn't build.
<Unit193> Reported against daily, since that's marked "testing"
<elfy> daily is days behind too - same reason I'd guess
<Unit193> Sure, but I'm not using an ISO, and I did the test, so it should be "reported" somewhere. :P
<elfy> someone has to - so thanks :)
<elfy> shall catch up in the morning on -release
<Unit193> ochosi: Looks like a no, and no FFe.
<Unit193> brainwash: The fella the does the indicator-plugin has commit access to thunar, IIRC.  Also, we ship two patches in Xubuntu, and have for a bit, so I'd hope/think they're tested enough to commit upstream.
<brainwash> that's andrzej
<Unit193> Yep, just couldn't remember the nick.
<brainwash> maintaining something like thunar is not easy, things can break easily if one adds new stuff or rewrites parts of the code
<Unit193> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/utopic/thunar/utopic/files/head:/debian/patches/ a couple in there could go upstream, though.
<brainwash> some are already included upstream
<brainwash> git-xfdesktop-4.11.patch
<Unit193> Mhmm.
<brainwash> gtk3-bookmarks.patch
<brainwash> but not my messy menu-icon-tweaks.patch
<brainwash> :D
<Unit193> Oh, gtk3-bookmarks did make it?  Nice.
<brainwash> http://git.xfce.org/xfce/thunar/commit/?id=6a63d7bd8ff0d937cb30f112c3fd080a5a107053
<brainwash> so we could drop most of the debian patches when a new upstream release is available
<ochosi> bluesabre: i guess we need to look into the conflict of light-locker.desktop and x-d-s
<Unit193> You "guess"? :)
<brainwash> interesting -> https://github.com/PCMan/gtk3-nocsd
<ochosi> isn't that the same thing ali1234 hacked together?
<ali1234> similar but different implementation
<ali1234> looks a bit safer than my version
<ochosi> ali1234: the close button still being there is a bit annoying though
<bluesabre> ochosi: I'll fix x-d-s now
<bluesabre> since we no longer auto-lock, we can probably drop the desktop from live-settings
<bluesabre> .desktop
<ochosi> indeed
<ochosi> thanks bluesabre 
<bluesabre> ochosi: what's up?
<bluesabre> ochosi: updated package pushed to ubuntu 
<Unit193> :D
<bluesabre> hopefully with less breakiness now :)
<bluesabre> when that is built in the archive, I'll poke stgraber
<ochosi> sounds good
<bluesabre> glad I poked before
<bluesabre> :)
<brainwash> bluesabre: can you commit https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10740 to trunk?
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10740 in Settings Manager "Add support for versioned help desktop files" [Normal,New]
<bluesabre> ochosi ^ sounds familiar
#xubuntu-devel 2014-08-27
<bluesabre> brainwash: so, what does it mean by versioned help files?
<brainwash> xfce_dialog_show_help_with_version ()
<brainwash> it's http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/utopic/xfce4-settings/utopic/view/head:/debian/patches/02_versioned-help-files.patch
<brainwash> once it has been applied upstream we can drop it downstream :)
<bluesabre> ah, gotcha
<bluesabre> ochosi, as the other -settings guy, approve?
<ochosi> bluesabre: +1
<brainwash> can we cleanup the two theme patches somehow?
<brainwash> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/utopic/xfce4-settings/utopic/files/head:/debian/patches/
<brainwash> one is for debian and the second one overrides it once again for (x)ubuntu
<brainwash> but what are the upstream defaults for ThemeName and IconThemeName?
<bluesabre> blank, but I think that means Xfce and Rodent, per mr_pouit's comment: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/utopic/xfce4-settings/utopic/view/head:/debian/patches/xubuntu_vanilla-session-themes.patch
<bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/utopic/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/14.10.5
<bluesabre> ^ now in utopic, next builds should build
<bluesabre> taking a break, bbl
<brainwash> ah nice
<brainwash> and I can del https://code.launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/xubuntu-default-settings/tooltip-size
<brainwash> bluesabre: please change the status of https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10740 to fixed
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10740 in Settings Manager "Add support for versioned help desktop files" [Normal,New]
<brainwash> bluesabre: can compton located /etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/compton.conf ?
<brainwash> locate
<Unit193> Aha, that makes more sense.  compton uses xdg_config_dirs.
<brainwash> so.. it works?
<Unit193> Not tested it, but I'd say so.
<brainwash> even with the missing . ?
<brainwash> should be a hidden config file I think
<Unit193> Why?  It's not in ~/
<brainwash> ok
<brainwash> I had the skel scheme in mind
<Unit193> https://github.com/chjj/compton/blob/master/src/compton.c#L5255
<Unit193> const static char *config_filename = "/compton.conf";
<brainwash> yea
<Unit193> (I link to it because you should be able to read it far better than me. :) )
<brainwash> so the next question is: does utopic still ship an outdated version of compton?
<Unit193> Beta2, IIRC.
<Unit193> !info compton utopic
<ubottu> compton (source: compton): compositor for X11, based on xcompmgr. In component universe, is extra. Version 0.1~beta2-1 (utopic), package size 97 kB, installed size 243 kB
<brainwash> 2013-11-04
<brainwash> old stuff
<brainwash> :/
<Unit193> Latest tagged.  We still aren't seeding it, just some handy config in case users want to use it.
<brainwash> right, having a nice config helps
<brainwash> but the user still has to deal with the outdated version of compton
<brainwash> in case we recommend it
<brainwash> recommend to try it -> tear free
 * Unit193 shrugs, no newer releases.
<brainwash> oh man, someone wants the fix for bug 1310264 to be backported to trusty
<ubottu> bug 1310264 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Can't search/find items in the Settings Manager" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1310264
<brainwash> can we do it?
<Unit193> He can do it, but that's a backport of a UI change, soo.
<brainwash> indeed, it's a ui change
<brainwash> so the answer is NO
<elfy> bluesabre: thanks :) 
<brainwash> bluesabre: any plans to sru/backport bug 1310264 to trusty? if no, then we should unlink the report from the 14.04.x blueprint
<ubottu> bug 1310264 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Can't search/find items in the Settings Manager" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1310264
<brainwash> it's just a minimal ui change after all
<brainwash> the now visible "settings" submenu entry
<elfy> ochosi: I asked in -release for a build of xubuntu, off out for the day - if you get chance could you do the same at some point
<ochosi> elfy: sure thing, thanks!
<ochosi> and thanks for updating the folks on the ML
<Unit193> ochosi: I see you hiding, https://launchpad.net/~unit193/+archive/ubuntu/xfce will have something for you in a minute.
<ochosi> Unit193: a-ha a-ha, what is it?
<ochosi> ah, the dashboard?
<Unit193> Nothing new, and yeah, the only one that was built today. :D
<ochosi> have you tested it?
<Unit193> Test built. :P
<ochosi> righty, i just tested it, it works ok
<ochosi> i'll copy it over
<ochosi> thanks!
<Unit193> Sure thing, doc.
<ochosi> i'm wondering btw whether we should drop the saucy versions that we still have
<ochosi> since it's EOL and all
<Unit193> Outdated and can't be updated?  I've been resisting nagging you and Sean about removing it, yeah.
<ochosi> done
<Unit193> Danke.
<ochosi> well thank you
<ochosi> i guess we should write a blog post about that PPA
<Unit193> (FWIW, Sean has access to the git repo hosting it too, in case I'm busy, in the hospital, dead, etc, etc.)
<Unit193> Sure.
<ochosi> righty
<ochosi> good to know, let's hope it doesn't come to any of that (incl. you being busy ;))
<Unit193> Meh, hospital would actually mean less busy.  When I was in last I'm pretty sure I got a chance to update a couple packages. :P
<ochosi> hehe
<Unit193> By the looks of it, the PPA is fairly used.
<ochosi> what looks?
<ochosi> (have they introduced lp statistics and i didn't notice?)
<brainwash> gdmflexiserver is gone in 14.04, but xfswitch-plugin and the panel action buttons still require it
<brainwash> bug 1320560
<ubottu> bug 1320560 in xfswitch-plugin (Ubuntu) "xfswitch-plugin refuses to switch user" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1320560
<brainwash> we could install a wrapper to mimic gdmflexiserver
<brainwash> see comment #4
<brainwash> fixing the actual source would be the better option, but can we just go gdmflexiserver -> dm-tool?
<brainwash> dm-tool is lightdm only
<brainwash> (I think)
<brainwash> xscreensaver should be also affected
<brainwash> if you click on "new login" while it locks the screen
<ochosi> the thing is that if gnome2 had really gone away, we could just drop and forget about gdmflexiserver
<ochosi> but now that there are forks of it that seem to stick around for now, alternatives to lightdm can still easily be used outside of gnome
<ochosi> (from what i understand, the new gdm is tightly integrated in gnome3, so it's not as easy anymore to use that with a different DE)
<brainwash> the problem is that there has to be some sort of script for user switching via display manager
<brainwash> I'm not sure if we can just hardcode dm-tool
 * ochosi replied
<brainwash> I see
<ochosi> i guess the really best way to fix this would be to implement display-manager awareness in xfce4-session
<ochosi> and then just provide a commandline switch for that, so that e.g. panel-plugins can safely use that
<brainwash> yes, this could be done via a "simple" bash script
<brainwash> like xflock4
<ochosi> implementing this sort of DM detection in every other place is silly
<ochosi> gdmflexiserver was such a "simple" bash script iirc
<brainwash> indeed
<ochosi> despite its name it worked fine with other DMs than gdm
<ochosi> (like the "flexi" part implies)
<brainwash> that's the reason I don't like hardcoding dm-tool into the code
<ochosi> i think for ubuntu it's ok
<brainwash> I think so too
<ochosi> i suggest you prep the patch since you already figured out everything
<brainwash> ok
<ochosi> maybe bluesabre can push it (whenever he's back online)
<brainwash> xscreensaver is also affected, not sure about that one? just submit a patch and hope for the best?
<brainwash> ah bug 1309917
<ubottu> bug 1309917 in xscreensaver (Ubuntu) "Unable to switch login at xscreensaver lock screen" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1309917
<brainwash> the maintainer already replied
<brainwash> http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/collab-maint/xscreensaver.git/tree/debian/xscreensaver-wrapper.sh
<brainwash> ^ :D
<ochosi> well the same goes for xscreensaver in fact
<ochosi> patching it in ubuntu is the okay-shortcut for now
<ochosi> wb bluesabre 
<bluesabre> what'd I miss?
<ochosi> one sec
<ochosi> brainwash talked about this bug and i commented and if he comes up with a patch, he'll get in touch with you https://launchpad.net/bugs/1320560
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1320560 in xfswitch-plugin (Ubuntu) "xfswitch-plugin refuses to switch user" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ochosi> oh, and i asked in -release for a rebuild of our image
<ochosi> but no response so far, stgraber seems to be afk
<brainwash> and you missed to close https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10740 :P
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10740 in Settings Manager "Add support for versioned help desktop files" [Normal,New]
<bluesabre> brainwash: not a bug admin for xfce4-settings, can't close it
<brainwash> but you can commit to trunk.. strange
<bluesabre> two separate sites :)
<ochosi> done
<brainwash> ochosi: thank you
<ochosi> np
<bluesabre> re: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/+bug/1310264 its a UI change, so nope
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1310264 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Can't search/find items in the Settings Manager" [Undecided,Fix released]
<ochosi> (and it's easy enough for single users to fix themselves)
<brainwash> can't this ui change be considered a bug fix?
<ochosi> someone could write a blog post for xu.org about how to fix it though
<bluesabre> maybe
<brainwash> if the user has already messed with the menu file (menulibre), then he still won't be able to find the hidden entries
<bluesabre> yup
<brainwash> ok then
<bluesabre> its still a pretty minor issue
<ochosi> +1
<bluesabre> ochosi: are we waiting for tonight to get our iso spun, or are we requesting an early respin?
<brainwash> for advanced users it is, but new xubuntu users are getting confused by the missing entries
<bluesabre> new users couldn't find menu items in the last menu either though... they still had to click on the settings manager icon
<ochosi> bluesabre: i asked for a respin asap, but we'll see when it really happens...
<bluesabre> ochosi: cool, thanks
<brainwash> bluesabre: yeah, but now we do offer the search functionality of whiskermenu, and people expect to find everything with it :)
<ochosi> they won't find files with it
<ochosi> anyway, let it go
<brainwash> hehe, I've already unlinked it from the 14.04.1 blueprint
<ochosi> good
<bluesabre> speaking of which
<bluesabre> do we want to add the catfish shortcut?
<ochosi> yup, that'd be nice
<bluesabre> and what would be a good one?
<brainwash> a general keyboard shortcut?
<brainwash> global
<ochosi> bluesabre: problem is "locate" or "find" might be ambiguous
<bluesabre> as in, type into whiskermenu "find donuts" and catfish loads and immediately starts to search
<ochosi> and "search" doesn't really cut it imo
<bluesabre> though it might be more interested in worms or grubs
<ochosi> maybe "ok catfish"
<ochosi> ah well, let's go for "find". makes the most sense
<bluesabre> brainwash: if you're running utopic and have catfish 1.2... like this: http://i.imgur.com/rCFuosC.png
<brainwash> makes sense to add something like that
<brainwash> "!f" would be too simple / not obvious enough, right?
<ochosi> i think it might not be very discoverable either way, but "find" makes it sound very natural
<elfy> asked -release re beta build again 
<ochosi> and people who frequently use it can change the shortcut easily
<bluesabre> elfy: thanks
<ochosi> elfy: i pinged stgraber earlier, but he doesn't seem to be about
<elfy> bluesabre: as far as you know there's nothing else that would stop it building?
<bluesabre> that's the only thing
<elfy> ochosi: yea - I think he's -5 or 6 hours
<bluesabre> if it fails this time, I'd be shocked
<elfy> why there's only one person who can get the build running I don't know - but I bet it'd get done for ubuntu earlier
<ochosi> possible
<elfy> ochosi: so you got any plans/idea for what we should do if the respin is late tonight - given that release is supposed to be tomorrow? 
<elfy> knome was talking yesterday about releasing late - I'm not worried if we do or don't
<bluesabre> I'll do as much iso testing as I am able tonight
<elfy> bluesabre: yea - that relies on us gettting something to test :)
<bluesabre> yup
<elfy> I'll not be able to do hardware tests in time for tomorrow, be vm only
<bluesabre> I get home when canonical starts going to bed, so I should be in the clear
<elfy> :)
<elfy> stgraber appeared mid-afternoon my time yesterday, would guess same today
<bluesabre> ochosi: want to draft the release notes today, or is that usually somebody else?
<ochosi> bluesabre: not sure we have a definitive person who is responsible for the release notes
<bluesabre> (and then I can review and add things tonight)
<bluesabre> I see
<ochosi> actually it might be good if >1 people could work on it
<bluesabre> yeah
<ochosi> otherwise things might be overlooked
<elfy> nope - generally it was knome and me previously - better to whack it on a pad or something so everyone can get to it 
<bluesabre> good idea
<ochosi> http://pad.ubuntu.com/S030Pt7VHy
<elfy> previoulsy we've mostly built it off of old ones
<ochosi> yeah, feel free to paste in a skeleton
<elfy> bbl
<brainwash> Unit193: are you going to re-include 02-remove-unused-maximize-button.patch (xfwm4, not applied upstream)
<brainwash> not sure if you've already answered this question
<ochosi> bluesabre, elfy: i gotta run now, but i'll look at the release notes again a little later in the day
<bluesabre> ok, I'm just adding notes for now which can be used to put things together
<ochosi> yup, sounds good
<ochosi> ttyl
<Unit193> Don't know why I thought it was no longer needed, I normally check those well.  I would since it's my mistake, but it is easier for Sean.  Anyway, if not I'll get to it a bit later today.
<bluesabre> Unit193: you know where to find such tools... how can I search for what I've uploaded to utopic?
<brainwash> Unit193: alright
<Unit193> brainwash: Sorry.
<brainwash> nobody would have noticed it :P
<Unit193> bluesabre: And I know how to find what packages have been sponsored for you, but not what you've uploaded since I can't do that.
<bluesabre> ah, gotcha
<bluesabre> I think I've got nearly everything on the pad now
<bluesabre> feel free to add notes for the packages if there is anything that makes them special :)
<bluesabre> bbl
<Unit193> bluesabre: If you want to grab+edit or whatever, it's uploaded.
<brainwash> anyone here using a dual monitor setup? if yes, please check if pkexec also triggers bug 152855
<ubottu> bug 152855 in gksu (Ubuntu) "gksu dialog box hangs when xfce compositing is on" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/152855
<brainwash> ancient bug :/
<elfy> Unit193: I suppose we need to get a core wiki page sorted for core rather than your one
<ochosi> elfy: rebuild kicked off by stgraber
<elfy> saw - didn't realise we could do that when there's not one there at all
<elfy> ochosi: we couldn't have done that, nothing to select to rebuild on the beta page
<ochosi> so a question of rights then i guess
<elfy> you have them I think 
<elfy> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/315/builds
<elfy> that's the dailies - once you've logged in do you see what I see? http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-270814-152435.php
<elfy> eg the admin bit at the bottom?
<elfy> Unit193: - draft xubuntu minimal page on xubuntu.org done
<elfy> ochosi: did a bit with the beta pad too
<elfy> and ... we've got some images to test now :p
<slickymasterWork> yeaps :)
 * slickymasterWork will comply with what is promised
<elfy> knome: not sure who can access the social stuff - but if you can, can you get beta testing on there 
 * elfy vaguely remembers pleia2 being afk 
<slickymasterWork> brainwash: you mean in relation to the at-spi2-core (Ubuntu) package?
<elfy> paulw2u appears on the tracker - that's one I can generally rely on to turn up :)
<elfy> ochosi Unit193 - core is now available on the tracker for testing
<pleia2> elfy: done
<elfy> pleia2: awesome thanks - wasn't sure if you were about or not :)
<pleia2> chaos day, have work and flight later :)
<elfy> :)
 * elfy had that for a while - 2 machines doing b tests - coudln't remember which was doing 32 and which 64 :p
 * elfy wanders away from the tracker now
<pleia2> hehe
<elfy> I'm just glad we don't have alternates to test ;)
<ochosi> elfy: i'm around now
<ochosi> nope, i don't see that admin bit there
<ochosi> oh, indeed, now i see it
<ochosi> weird, when removing the filters (before i saw all products) it suddenly appeared
<ochosi> wasn't there before
<ochosi> that's actually quite handy that we can respin ourselves now
<elfy> ok - cool, so to request a rebuild for 64 say, select the box next to it - then in the bottom request it :)
<elfy> when we're ready to release - select then mark as ready
<elfy> back in an hour ish
<elfy> just don't practise today :p
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> ttyl
<Unit193> Dang man, we have a lot of hardly started languages in the docs.  Just checked, each and every one of them validates still. \o/
<elfy> ochosi: back for a bit if you need anything 
<Unit193> elfy: Hellos.
<elfy> hi Unit193 
<elfy> wb Luyin :)
<Luyin> thx elfy 
<Luyin> I'm just trying to find my way through all these websites
<elfy> Luyin: if you've got time and can do a test install - vm's fine - we're testing the beta right now
<elfy> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/322/builds
<brainwash> elfy: this error bug 1359439 ?
<ubottu> bug 1359439 in systemd-shim (Ubuntu) "[ 7.287663] systemd-logind[1057]: Failed to start unit user@126.service: Unknown unit: user@126.service" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1359439
<brainwash> most likely
<Luyin> ok, I'm on it elfy 
<Luyin> just give me a sec to find myself around there
<elfy> ok ... so that's random brainwash - what are you talking about :)
<elfy> Luyin: okey doke - I'm about for a while if you need anything 
<brainwash> elfy: your report "mage fails to start try/install screen" :P
<brainwash> Image
<elfy> oic - that makes more sense now :)
<Luyin> elfy: the xubuntu desktop at the bottom of the page?
<elfy> possible - I'm not that worried about it tbh brainwash - more likely to be sorted by a ubuntu type person 
<elfy> Luyin: yep :)
<Luyin> ok, which one? or just both?
<elfy> Luyin: there are 5 tests in each - choose one arch and go for it :)
<Luyin> okay, I'll take the 64bit one
<elfy> anything that you do will have my gratitude :)
<Luyin> hehe
 * elfy wonders what lxpolkit actually is and if it's what it sounds like whether we could have similar
<brainwash> that's a random thought
<elfy> not *completely* random - saw mention of it in -quality :p
<brainwash> we already use gnome's polkit auth agent I think
<elfy> aah - okey doke - just wondering :)
<Luyin> elfy: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/ISO/Walkthrough here it says one should get the iso via TestDrive, but I'm downloading it via browser atm, is that correct?
<brainwash> elfy: yes, it's policykit-1-gnome
<elfy> Luyin: you can use testdrive - but if you know you're way around a vm then it's not really needed - and in that case download however you want
<Luyin> okay ^^
 * Unit193 ponders why it'd say to use testdrive.
<brainwash> elfy: luckily we don't hate gnome as much as LXDE does :)
<elfy> Luyin: once you've got it - you can use zsync to update it if you want to not download the whole thing everytime - depends who long between test
<elfy> Unit193: check the wiki page last edited by ;)
<Unit193> elfy: I didn't have to.
<elfy> ha ha ha 
 * elfy has no idea what testdrive even looks like 
<Unit193> Erm, requirements?  Well then.
<elfy> :)
<Unit193> Guess we don't support qemu, kvm, or VMware's.
<elfy> if I was interested enough I could rip that up and start again
<Luyin> hmm, seems my virtualbox is only able to run 32bit kernels.
<elfy> do 32 bit then :)
<elfy> brainwash: thanks 
<Luyin> ok, it's getting interesting :D
<Unit193> elfy: I presume you didn't see my question the other day.  Utopic seem a bit slower to you than Trusty?
<elfy> Unit193: nope didn't notice that - sorry. It *seems* a bit slower sometimes if I've booted systemd 
<Unit193> Hrm.
<elfy> but generally I don't notice much with upstart
<elfy> unless I've been using vbox - then everything seems a lot slower than it did using it in trusty or saucy
<Unit193> systemd 214 vs systemd 214, seems to hang a couple seconds at times.
<brainwash> 214?
<Luyin> elfy: I've got a question about https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Hardware this. it says one should edit the top table â but there's no button or similar to click where I can edit anything. or am I missing something?
<Luyin> and something else: I chose the "manual partition"-version for testing. so I guess I'm allowed to partition myself in order to finish the test?
<elfy> Luyin: none of that's really all that important tbh /Hardware 
<elfy> yep - you can choose the partitions yourself for that test
<elfy> I tend to do it in this order, but then I tend to do the whole lot - whole disk, resize, then manual on one of the resized partitions
<Luyin> you're kidding? when I help, I'm doing it thoroughly :P
<elfy> Luyin: you won't see me on that list and I've been doing this for years 
<Luyin> okay, lol
<elfy> you'll not find balloons on there either and he's the Canonical Community QA guy 
<elfy> so - you can do it if you want - but quite frankly - getting more than a couple of people testing is a LOT more important to me :)
<Luyin> hehe okay
 * elfy really should write a more detailed QA procedure for us rather than have to send people to ubuntu pages and then it not be *quite* what we want
<Unit193> brainwash: What about it?
<brainwash> Unit193: ubuntu is stuck with 208, isn't it?
<Unit193> elfy: "core is now available on the tracker for testing" does that mean do it right now?
<Unit193> brainwash: Yep, in utopic at least, FF and all.
<brainwash> still don't like to boot with systemd.. it feels like voodo magic :)
<elfy> Unit193: no - I was just letting you and ochosi know where we are :)
<elfy> there's not much chance of me asking anyone to do that right at the moment :p
<Unit193> brainwash: Heh, yeeeah.  I'm not sure if I like it or greatly dislike it, it's hard to tell as some of the features are nice, and some really bad.
<Unit193> elfy: OK, great then!
<brainwash> Unit193: exactly
<Unit193> brainwash: systemd-analyze, the information it keeps per service, and some of that is dang nice, others not so much.
<elfy> I wish I got the desktop as quickly as systemd says it takes :p
<Unit193> Hah. :P
<Unit193> elfy: Try 214! :P
<elfy> I think I boot to desktop in about 40-50s
<elfy> systemd ~25s
<elfy> Unit193: did you look at the core draft on xubuntu.org yet?
<elfy> need to get that sorted before we call 
<elfy> though I could do it in the mail if necessary
<knome> re: release notes, i think the release team should generally take the lead on that, especially since the current setup is (by design): project lead, one person who's on top of development, one person who's on top of QA/testing/Bugs
<knome> elfy, i can do twitter..
<elfy> ta
<knome> what do you want in there? probably a certain mail mentioned?
<Unit193> elfy: Oh, we even want to mention the second one?  OK, works for me.  Seems to be about what I wrote up too.  Perhaps it'd be useful to link to http://docs.xubuntu.org/1404/appendix-packages.html ?
<knome> oh, hmm, somebody tweeted
<elfy> knome: pleia2 did do something though - not checked what yet
<elfy> Unit193: it was a draft - I just copied what you wrote in yours and tacked on testing :p
<knome> yep, she's definitely tweeted 3h ago
<elfy> cool - thanks knome 
<knome> np
<knome> we definitely need to involve the "other" social media admins more on this channel
<elfy> Unit193: yea - agreed to adding that to the page 
<knome> we have *at least* pleia2 + 1 other person on each outlet
<elfy> knome: I'm glad that doesn't involve me :p
<ochosi> elfy: why do the release notes say "xfwm4 4.12"?
<Unit193> elfy: Right, sounds good to me.  Figured it might be, kind of wrote it last cycle precisely for xubuntu-core.
<knome> elfy, heh, well it should make your work easier :)
<elfy> ochosi: was just picking up information from bluesabre's list 
<Unit193> ochosi: I have no idea if you're interested, but you are not identified.
<ochosi> elfy: says 4.11.2 there though :)
<ochosi> Unit193: ah, thanks
<elfy> fat finger syndrome then I suspect ochosi :)
<ochosi> lol
<elfy> ochosi: and are we just going to do a release announcement or both? 
<knome> elfy, holstein is an admin of the FB group..
<ochosi> elfy: both?
<elfy> knome: orite - useful to know :)
<knome> yep, will ask him to join this channel the next time i see him active (and remember)
<elfy> ochosi: suits me - but I'll not be about morning tomorrow
<elfy> knome: he is now 
<ochosi> elfy: no, my question was what do you mean with a release announcement *or both* ?
<elfy> lol - sorry - announcement is on xubuntu.org release notes are on ubuntu wiki
<ochosi> oh right
<ochosi> well i'd probably do both
<elfy> ok - well I'll ensure that the wiki one is ok by tomorrow afternoon
<knome> announcement has generally been the non-technical one, notes the more technical one; and usually useful for anything else than point releases at least
<elfy> wb boss :p
<elfy> knome: yep
<ochosi> knome: if you wanna help us move along a bit, that'd be much appreciated: http://pad.ubuntu.com/S030Pt7VHy
<knome> hrrhrr
<knome> what are we drafting? the notes or the announcement or both?
<ochosi> i guess both
<ochosi> bluesabre started by listing app updates
<ochosi> and elfy added a skeleton
<ochosi> not sure what for though tbh :)
<elfy> I'll not bother again then
<knome> lol
<knome> that skeleton is okay though :P
<ochosi> elfy: why? i think it's nice, i'm just not experienced enough with this stuff :)
<elfy> ochosi: well basically it's a whole lot easier doing it before by a day than by 5 minutes ... 
<ochosi> right, i guess so
<ochosi> what the heck, bluebrain??
<Luyin> puh, finally, test is nearly done
<elfy> Luyin: \o/
<brainwash> ochosi: that's me... surprise
<knome> ochosi, watch your language, sir :P
 * ochosi will remember to never say "bluebrain" again to an old lady
<Luyin> ok, test passed. and I'm off to bed ;)
<brainwash> Luyin: good night
<elfy> Luyin: don't forget to report it ;)
<elfy> and thanks :)
<Luyin> elfy: done ;) good night to all of you!
<elfy> night :)
<Luyin> elfy: might do the next one tomorrow evening if I can make it
<knome> night and thanks Luyin 
<elfy> Luyin: if we've had sufficient results by then we'll be marking it ready - so no testing, but dailies will start again until the next beta 
<Luyin> yw
<Unit193> bluebrain?
<elfy> we've done that :p
<elfy> Unit193: I added that table link - and I removed the second command line install bit
<elfy> the testcase is just the first 
<Unit193> OK, whatever works best for you.
<Unit193> Sounds good though.
<elfy> oooh - didn't know alt-tab is clickable ... 
<Unit193> Mhmm, nice shiny alt+tab from ochosi, been using it since slightly before trusty was released.
<Unit193> (PPA I made, of course.)
<knome> elfy, i'm waiting you to bombard the known issues section :P
<elfy> I've not noticed very much to be honest - certainly not much in the way of Xubuntu specific stuff we need to make people aware off
<elfy> which is the result of hardly any reporting of tests
<knome> boo
<ochosi> or a very stable beta ;)
<Unit193> FWIW, I think more of us are activly using utopic than before.
<knome> do we carry bugs from 14.04 release?
<ochosi> +1
<ochosi> and we've been trying to sort most pressing bugs in 14.04.1
<ochosi> (and the indicators haven't changed their API [yet])
<Unit193> Hah, no that waits until after FF.
<brainwash> and wait until xorg 1.16 lands (FFe)
<Unit193> elfy: At least this is earlier than I normally update, and I've moved 3 computers (netbook counts, right?) to utopic.  It's more of a daily/weekly use than a "report test complete" type of thing though.
<elfy> there is 1 bug reported against xubuntu and utopic bug 1330171 that I can find
<ubottu> bug 1330171 in ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "4th slide become much bigger therefore some buttons become unvisible on following slides" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1330171
<elfy> hardly worth noting ;)
<ochosi> yeah, slideshow hasn't even been updated yet
<elfy> Unit193: yea - cadence/exploratory testing - that's fine, if you happen to use something - check the package testcase
<elfy> ochosi: yep
<knome> elfy, taking on that bug.
<elfy> right I've got to go - I'll catch up in the morning - night all 
<Unit193> G'night.
<knome> night elfy, and thanks :)
<ochosi> night elfy and thanks for your help!
<elfy> ochosi knome - in the pad I linked to the minimal install draft on xubuntu.org - it's only a simple page - be good to publish that asap - I'll be calling for testing as soon as beta is released
<elfy> anyway - night :)
<Unit193> Logan_: Pingalinga?
<knome> time to go to bed. nighty!
<ochosi> night knome 
<Unit193> bluesabre: Why you no MOTU??  I need one! :P
<bluesabre> Unit193: D:
<ochosi> hey bluesabre 
<ochosi> might wanna give the release notes a read
<bluesabre> looking over them now
<bluesabre> er, was
<bluesabre> now disconnected
 * bluesabre searches for link
<bluesabre> and I'm back
<Unit193> bluesabre: So, what'd you decide on the xfpm-plugins/lxpanel stuff?  Going to mirror for the daily ppa, and also wondering how you resolved it. :D
<Unit193> bluesabre: also, xfwm that contains brainwash's patch is in the normal place, if you want to look and decide if you like it.
<bluesabre> Aren't we unable to resolve until lxpanel hits the archive?
<Unit193> Sure, but still have to fix the hard dep on xfce4-panel.
<bluesabre> oh right
<Unit193> :D
<bluesabre> aaaand, brainwash's patch..?
<Unit193> From before, no maximize if no maximize.
<Unit193> :D
<bluesabre> oh right
<bluesabre> ochosi: no known issues, yet?
<ochosi> yup
<bluesabre> and maybe add a note with the xchat removal "If you need to reach the Xubuntu team, go to xubuntu.org/irc"?
<bluesabre> or smth
<bluesabre> maybe not
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> well, or use pidgin ;)
<ochosi> btw, apt-offline doesn't really seem to be such a terribly new version
<Unit193> /kban ochosi no
<ochosi> or maybe i misread, but it seemed like nothing spectacular was going on there
<bluesabre> ochosi: well, the difference is that it actually works now
<Unit193> ochosi: The point is, it works whereas trusty doesn't.
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> list that in bug fixes then please
 * bluesabre assigns to Unit193
<ochosi> Unit193: http://pad.ubuntu.com/S030Pt7VHy
<Unit193> Actually a bit busy, but sure later.
<bluesabre> k
<bluesabre> ochosi: how long are you around?
<ochosi> not very much longer
<ochosi> why, what's up?
<bluesabre> stick around for a few, I can actually test xfpm now
<ochosi> ah
<ochosi> okeydokey
<bluesabre> ok
<bluesabre> unknown state is now a dead mouse
<bluesabre> which is better
<ochosi> dead mouse?
<ochosi> you mean with an empty progressbar
<bluesabre> yes
<ochosi> ok
<bluesabre> 1px red tick at the bottom
<ochosi> yeah, that's the minimum load
<ochosi> i didn't want it to ever be actually just empty
<ochosi> otherwise ppl might wonder what that is
<bluesabre> right, makes sense
<bluesabre> awesome, we already have 5/5 on both arch
<bluesabre> good job guys!
<ochosi> http://dpaste.com/11E7FJJ
<ochosi> apply that pls ^
<ochosi> and if that works, i'll reward you with a blue (?) hovering on top of your mouse ;)
<bluesabre> building now
<bluesabre> prefix=/usr, right?
<Unit193> Naaaah, /libexec/usr/
<ochosi> yup
<Unit193> :---D
<bluesabre> ochosi: http://paste.ubuntu.com/8163876/
<ochosi> argh
<ochosi> typo
<ochosi> UNKNOWN
<ochosi> not UKNOWN
<bluesabre> argh!
<bluesabre> fixed typo, looks the same
<ochosi> right, that's what i was afraid would happen :s
<ochosi> somehow that check doesn't work
<ochosi> and i don't get why
<ochosi> since i can't debug, mind to add a debug message there and print the state?
<ochosi> iirc 0 is UNKNOWN
<bluesabre> ochosi: any idea where to see g_prints for panel plugins?
<ochosi> yeah, you have to start the panel with debug mode
<ochosi> one sec
<ochosi> PANEL_DEBUG=1 xfce4-panel
<bluesabre> ok, next question, what do you use for printing debug msgs?
<bluesabre> g_print goes to the void
<ochosi> g_warning usually
#xubuntu-devel 2014-08-28
<ochosi> bluesabre: we could actually mention the compton config in the release notes
<bluesabre> ochosi: not sure this is getting executed, still no output there
<ochosi> you're opening the menu though, right
<ochosi> ?
<bluesabre> ochosi: maybe, but then it'd seem like we're endorsing its use
<bluesabre> yes
<bluesabre> so, maybe not prefix=/usr
<bluesabre> ?
<ochosi> nah, that should work
<ochosi> you can uninstall the xfpm from the repos to be sure thogh
<ochosi> though
<bluesabre> got it
<bluesabre> I see state = 1 and state = 0
<ochosi> what, both?
<ochosi> i mean that'd explain it
<ochosi> do you have >1 device?
<bluesabre> laptop battery
<bluesabre> ok, mouse is 0
<ochosi> bluesabre: right, then i still don't get why it ends up with a progressbar
<ochosi> (also, in case of the battery, it should return too)
<bluesabre> probably does, I have the print above the returns
<ochosi> should for both, question is why doesn't it
<ochosi> do you see any obvious mistake or something?
<bluesabre> one sec
<bluesabre> ?
<bluesabre> now it had no progressbar
<ochosi> woot
<ochosi> random?
<bluesabre> not sure, investigating
<Unit193> bluesabre: Didja update it for me?
<bluesabre> ochosi: I guess the patch works now
<bluesabre> :\
<Unit193> And do uploads, and give me powers, and coffee?
<ochosi> bluesabre: humm, you guess..? :s
<bluesabre> yeah, its working
<bluesabre> no idea why it didn't before, must be user-error
<bluesabre> well
<ochosi> ok, in that case try the real deal: http://git.xfce.org/users/ochosi/xfce4-power-manager/log/?h=private/unknown_device_state
<bluesabre> working as in no progressbar
<ochosi> yeah
<bluesabre> Unit193: I'll get it uploaded tonight or tomorrow latest
<Unit193> OK, sure, no hurry.
<bluesabre> ochosi: warning: remote HEAD refers to nonexistent ref, unable to checkout.
<bluesabre> I think I really dislike the user branches
<ochosi> well you can add the user branch to the normal repo locally
<ochosi> then you shouldn't get that error i think
<bluesabre> there we go
<ochosi> we do?
<bluesabre> maybe
<ochosi> ah
<bluesabre> github is easier
<bluesabre> got it finally
<bluesabre> building
<bluesabre> now the plugin dies on load
<bluesabre> yay
<Unit193> :D
<bluesabre> (process:28041): xfce4-panel-wrapper-CRITICAL **: Wrapper power-manager-plugin-2: Failed to open plugin module "/usr/lib/xfce4/panel/plugins/libxfce4powermanager.so": /usr/lib/xfce4/panel/plugins/libxfce4powermanager.so: undefined symbol: layout_set_font.
<ochosi> strange
<ochosi> layout_set_font is a rather normal function
<ochosi> not sure why that wouldn't work, we use it in the display dialog too
<ochosi> feel free to comment it out though
<bluesabre> beats me
<ochosi> it worked for eric btw
<bluesabre> probably just a messy build env
<ochosi> he even showed me a screenshot of that blue bubble, so i know he wasn't faking it
<ochosi> bluesabre: wanna try "pango_layout_set_font_description" instead?
<bluesabre> ochosi: that fixed it
<bluesabre> pango_layout_set_font_description (layout, pango_font_description_from_string ("Sans Bold 9"));
<ochosi> hm, maybe layout_set_font is deprecated or something
<bluesabre> maybe
<ochosi> so wait, does it work now as it should?
<bluesabre> things disappear quicker than we code
<ochosi> indeed
<ochosi> i mean do you see the blue bubble or does it just build and run?
<bluesabre> ochosi: http://imgur.com/JzqXM0Q
<ochosi> hm right. so apart from the ? not being centered anymore...
<bluesabre> getting there
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> need me to test anything else?
<ochosi> nope, actually that's it
<bluesabre> sweet
<ochosi> i'll tweak the positioning of the ?
<ochosi> so if you could test that once more
<ochosi> that'd be great
<bluesabre> sure thing
<ochosi> http://dpaste.com/38WBPV9
<ochosi> bluesabre: ^
<ochosi> (you can obviously ignore that one line about the font)
<bluesabre> ochosi: http://imgur.com/2Xw9NMa
<bluesabre> bingo
<ochosi> yup, that's pretty much it
<ochosi> i'm a bit afraid of the installed fonts affecting the positioning
<ochosi> mind testing one last thing?
<bluesabre> sure
<ochosi> setting your system font to something else and restarting the panel
<ochosi> then check whether it's still centered
<bluesabre> we can load it into fedora and watch it die with that font rendering
<bluesabre> k
<ochosi> (iirc "Sans" falls back to whatever)
<ochosi> (or even gets overridden)
<bluesabre> looks the same with ubuntu font
<ochosi> mkay, i guess that's a good sign
<bluesabre> indeed
<Unit193> So right, what's on the pad?
<bluesabre> lots of scribbles
<bluesabre> http://pad.ubuntu.com/S030Pt7VHy
<ochosi> bluesabre: i'll tweak the colors a bit more
<ochosi> and then i guess i'll push it
<ochosi> not sure why it didn't just work for eric
<ochosi> (he also got the progressbar plus the bubble)
<Unit193> I scribbled, it's not pretty.
<bluesabre> Unit193: works for me
<Unit193> Great.
<bluesabre> so, I need to update power-manager depends and restore the xfwm patch?
<ochosi> bluesabre: ok, last nag for tonight: http://dpaste.com/3JS241C
<bluesabre> ochosi: nicer http://imgur.com/2GgYT8Y
<ochosi> yup, i think for now i'm happy with it
<Unit193> bluesabre: Something like that, but not quite no.
<bluesabre> Recommends: xfce4-panel | lxpanel
<bluesabre> or Depends
<bluesabre> or just look at what you did
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> It's being added by misc:Depends or shlib:Depends, so not as simple.  xfwm I have done sitting in source/
<bluesabre> oh right
<bluesabre> no fun, that one.
<ochosi> bluesabre: thanks again for testing, pushed to master
<bluesabre> ochosi: great, thanks :)
<Unit193> He broke it.
<ochosi> who?
<bluesabre> skellat
<ochosi> night everyone
<bluesabre> night ochosi
<ochosi> aha
<Unit193> ochosi: Sleepy well, if you can.
<Unit193> ochosi: http://paste.openstack.org/show/9epDPTmSpE6L5z1VfHzG/ some basic stats, been around for a while.  A bit off since the one was just updated.
<Unit193> We need to bump 1361459?
<elfy> bluesabre: we had 5/5 on both after I finished - what I'm interested in is seeing more than 5 results in each of the arch's - otherwise I just as well mark the damn things ready once I've finished
<ochosi> elfy: i'm dling the image now...
<elfy> morning ochosi 
<ochosi> morning
<elfy> I just added a couple of bugs to known issues - video corruption in live session boot and an intermittent fail to configure wifi
<elfy> and thanks
<ochosi> ah good
<elfy> did you look at the minimal install draft on xubuntu.org ? 
<ochosi> not yet
<elfy> ok - we'll either need to edit the release announcement to remove the link or publish that - I don't mind which we do :)
<elfy> off to work later today and should be back mid afternoon in time to tie things up 
<ochosi> ok, i'll try to take a look until then
<elfy> yea - no real rush tbh, we just need to do one or the other 
<ochosi> elfy: hm, that seems a bit ambiguous: After getting to the boot menu, select <em>Install</em> or for more customization select <em>Command-line install</em>
<ochosi> especially because you don't explain both cases in the description
<elfy> where are you reading that? 
<ochosi> Unit193: over what timespan was the data collected? since we created the PPA?
<elfy> ochosi: nvm - got it - testcase hasn't caught up with what we're wanting, but no-one should be testing that yet anyway 
<ochosi> elfy: second list point in xubuntu minimal install
<ochosi> also, it's a bit brief. the first paragraph should explain a bit more what's good about it, but that only experienced users might wanna do it
<elfy> sorry - I'm reading the <em> thing as testcase - yea - please remove that bit so it just points at Install 
<ochosi> so only "After getting to the boot menu, select <em>Install</em>" ?
<elfy> yep
<elfy> sigh 
<ochosi> ok, also adjusted the following bullet-point
<elfy> yea - was going to say the next will be wrong too :p
<ochosi> the last one is also a bit confusing
<ochosi> maybe it's just the wording
<ochosi> "if you don't get that window, after installing, run.."
<elfy> probably - I did just copy the wording from Unit193's core page
<ochosi> meh
<elfy> leave it for the moment 
<ochosi> ok
<elfy> I'll fiddle with the pad now 
<ochosi> bluesabre: could you review this article pls and if you're ok with it just hit publish? http://xubuntu.org/?p=2656&preview=true
<elfy> ochosi: I'll do some detail for testing minimal in m/l early next - we can deal with the website page later
<ochosi> ok, sounds good to me!
<elfy> yep - enough to do right now without an extra one :p
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> elfy: doing a real install btw
<ochosi> but i'll do a vm install for the testcase later i think
<ochosi> brb (hopefully)
<elfy> :)
<elfy> ochosi: if you're doiing a real install that's preferable  for the test report - but if you manage to do a vm as well - that's even better
<ochosi> hmm, somehow usb creator messed it up i thin
<ochosi> k
<ochosi> in the vm the image boots fine
<knome> that's wonky. i've never truly trusted it..
<ochosi> on the usb stick i get "not a COM32R image" or something
<elfy> aah
<elfy> tab 
<ochosi> guess there's no easy way of validating that the usb creator didn't mess things up other than trying to boot from the stick
<ochosi> tab?
<elfy> yea tab button - try then typing live
<elfy> in unetbootin you'd want unetbootindefault
<elfy> I've had that off and on
<ochosi> ok, i'll try that after the first VM run
<elfy> I'd report it - but more than I'd like anything that's just a general *buntu issue gets ignored so I don't bother anymore
<ochosi> right
<elfy> bug 1325801
<ubottu> bug 1325801 in casper (Ubuntu) "failed to boot from USB disk with error: gfxboot.c32: not a COM32R Image boot:" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1325801
<ochosi> ah, thanks
<elfy> added to my results and the pad
<ochosi> frankly, i'm myself a bit surprised by how much goodness and features b1 contains
<ochosi> most comes from upstream, but since bluesabre and i are quite active there, it's also a xubuntu achievement
<elfy> :)
<ochosi> best thing about QA, you can actually do something else while pretending to do something ("It's installing...")
<ochosi> aka http://xkcd.com/303/
<elfy> indeed :)
<elfy> no sticker for you :p
<ochosi> awwwh :D
 * ochosi remembers not to call the QA lead the king of slackers anymore
<elfy> :|
<elfy> lol
<ochosi> well, i want them stickers!!!
<ochosi> ;)
<elfy> sent a note to list re com32 and possible graphic corruption just in case anyone else comes across them and doesn't look at the tracker first
<ochosi> elfy: hm, for auto-resize i need to have a second system installed in my vbox, right?
<elfy> yea 
<ochosi> humm
<ochosi> ok, that'll be the last one then
<elfy> no
<elfy> actually - what you need is a vm disk big enough to allow 2 installs
<elfy> I make them 16Gb
<elfy> then can do whole disk, resize and then manual on one of the resized 
<ochosi> ah, hmm
<ochosi> too late for that
<elfy> can't do whole disk on hardware here - would kill little one's win7 install lol 
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> btw, anything i should add to the comments?
<ochosi> i see you added "hardware"
<ochosi> is that a hardware profile you created for yourself?
<elfy> I don't use hardware profiles 
<elfy> I just try to differentiate between hardware and vm's is all
<ochosi> ah ok
<ochosi> so i guess i put VM in the comments then
<knome> well, what are hardware profiles anyway.. websites.
<elfy> knome: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Hardware
<knome> i know
<elfy> if balloons doesn't bother with that - that's good enough for me :p
<knome> they are a website with specified output from a command
<elfy> I guess - all seems rather pointless to me 
<knome> well if you could save your HW profiles *in the ISO tracker*, then select one from a dropdown, it would be much useful..
<knome> *more*
<elfy> I'd rather see other things fixed on the tracker than that ;)
<knome> currently it's... well, i guess there can be some good to it
<knome> me too.
<elfy> well - off to work for me - back mid afternoon I hope
<elfy> cya later
<knome> the arguments against some of the HW info gathering have been "who owns it, which server has the information", and now we've set up a community system that powers a somewhat closed community member server...
<knome> wait, we're using something else now. hooray.
<knome> but still it's not centralized..
<ochosi> frankly, 14.10 is looking great
<Unit193> Me?  Bad wording?  Surprising!
<Unit193> :P
<ochosi> bluesabre: i get a funny crash of xfsettingsd in the live session when enabling the 'configure new displays when connected' option btw
<ochosi> bluesabre: http://dpaste.com/3XWVF5X
<ochosi> i'll see whether that still applies in on a hw install
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/EAo9SpSNXeScCSlpbfja/ might even get fr this cycle.
<ochosi> get fr?
<knome> french translation of the documentation
<ochosi> right, but is there an increase or why might we get it this cycle?
<knome> increase obviously
<ochosi> Luyin: i see that the docs are fairly untranslated in german, in case you feel like taking a look ;)
<knome> same goes for silverlion @ -ot
<Luyin> ochosi: link?
<ochosi> knome: link?
<ochosi> (mmm, aligning lines...)
<knome> https://translations.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs
<Unit193> I can translate to gibberish.
<ochosi> sweet!
<ochosi> wait, where's the gib.po ?
<knome> Unit193, any (other) readers for that one? :P
<Unit193> Well, maybe, but not that use Xubuntu. :P
<knome> uh, i'm out of battery. see you!
<ochosi> ttyl knome 
<Luyin> ochosi: I'll take a look at it tonight. at work atm ;)
<ochosi> Luyin: sure, thanks! hf @work then ;)
<knome> hm, who doesn't work on FOSS while at work? :P
<Unit193> I'd bet money elfy doesn't.
<knome> does advoacy count?
<knome> advocacy too
<bluesabre> ochosi: re, that article, the title could use some work, but otherwise I think it is good
<bluesabre> elfy: got a few tests in this morning
<ochosi> bluesabre: got any ideas up your sleeve?
<bluesabre> schedule is tight this morning, so everything else that I promised I'd do this morning, I'll do tonight
<bluesabre> "Laptop users, the black screen of death is fixed"?
<bluesabre> dunno
<Unit193> Sure, no problem.
<ochosi> oh, let's not call it that, that might catch on
<bluesabre> "
<bluesabre> The nasty black screen bug is fixed in 14.04.1" doesn't jive with me
<ochosi> i like the exclamating "laptop users"
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> problem is, some people are still experiencing some sort of black screen
<bluesabre> I know
<ochosi> maybe we should write
<bluesabre> at various points
<ochosi> "Laptop users, we have fixed one black screen bug"
<ochosi> :]
<bluesabre> haha
<ochosi> more humble
<bluesabre> "Laptop users, Fix available for the black screen on unlock bug"
<ochosi> yeah, that's better
<ochosi> wanna hit publish then?
<bluesabre> sure
<ochosi> ty
<bluesabre> for the article content, "and Xubuntu 14.10 Beta 1"
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> true
<ochosi> when i drafted that, 14.10 was still too far away
<bluesabre> I can't publish, "submitted for review"
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> i guess i'll do that then
<ochosi> not a member of xubuntu-website?
<bluesabre> dunno
<bluesabre> I think I am, able to login
<bluesabre> ochosi: add the 14.04 and 14.10 tags, maybe?
<ochosi> maybe just xubuntu-team is needed for that
<ochosi> never sure
<bluesabre> ah
<Unit193> -team can't publish.
<bluesabre> anyway, gotta run, bbl
<ochosi> ok, ttyl bluesabre 
<ochosi> thanks!
<elfy> back
<elfy> lol @ Unit193 
<elfy> you'd be right :p
<elfy> ochosi: announcement is now fleshed out - not done release note though yet
<elfy> I'm happy to mark the beta as ready when you are
<ochosi> elfy: i managed to run two tests today, but that's about it i'm afraid
<ochosi> one hardware, one VM
<elfy> thanks for doing them :)
<elfy> we can wait a while longer - then mark them - you can do that if you want :)
<ochosi> nah, i think it's actually fine to mark them now
<elfy> ok - you want to do that - it'll make sure that you can do it
<ochosi> righty
<ochosi> note that i've never done that before, so i'd actually be greatful for you to guide me a little :)
<elfy> ok - http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/322/builds
<elfy> empty box to the left of where it says Product(Xubuntu)
<elfy> click that - should select both our 32/64 bit
<elfy> then in the Admin bit - Status - in the dropdown - select mark as ready
<ochosi> yup (actually all of the products are autoselected by default for me, so it's more about unticking than ticking)
<elfy> then update build status
<ochosi> ok, did that
<elfy> mmm 
<ochosi> not sure anything happened though
<ochosi> at least there is no visual diff
<elfy> ochosi: hang on - http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-280814-140252.php
<elfy> not the products right on the left - with kubuntu etc
<ochosi> thanks
<ochosi> done now
<elfy> awesome - picture paints a thousand words :p
<ochosi> indeed
<elfy> now - no-one can report against it 
<ochosi> you mean iso tests?
<elfy> or shouldn't be able to - yep 
<ochosi> aha, why's that?
<elfy> because we've said it's ready 
<elfy> tomorrow it'll go back to dailies
<elfy> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UtopicUnicorn/Beta1/Xubuntu
<ochosi> elfy: ok, so how do we go about creating the announcement / notes now?
<elfy> the announcement is fleshed out on xubuntu.org - needs another set of eyes
<elfy> the release note page is ^^ and just needs to have the pad content copied to it and fiddled with
<elfy> we just need to wait now for stgraber - apart from checking things nothing we can really do for the moment
<ochosi> the launchpad bugs on the announcement need links btw
<elfy> ok - I'll do those now
<ochosi> thanks
<elfy> ok - that's done
<ochosi> thanks
<ochosi> looks much better now
<ochosi> btw, please s/Xchat/XChat/
<ochosi> (if you still have the edit lock)
<elfy> I did - it says XChat 
<ochosi> ah, good
<elfy> or should do :p
<ochosi> among "other changes" it's still Xchat
<elfy> hadn't saved 
<elfy> can't get the frist two paragraphs to look right
<ochosi> yeah, they do look a little messed up
<ochosi> you're using the visual editor?
<elfy> I was
<ochosi> (there's so many diffs there, i feel dizzy...)
<ochosi> err, divs :)
<elfy> lol
<elfy> anyway - I'll not play with that page anymore
<ochosi> suuuure, break everything and then sneak out!
<ochosi> :D
 * ochosi goes and cleans up
<elfy> :)
<elfy> common infrastructure on the wiki appears to be pointless this time
<ochosi> ok, done
<ochosi> so from my pov the release announcement is ready to go
<elfy> thanks - looks better :p
<ochosi> good
<elfy> yep - that all looks fine to me too
<elfy> once we get the nod we can publish that and do the wiki one
<ochosi> are you working on the notes arleady?
<elfy> easy now :)
<ochosi> ah ok
<ochosi> so we'll wait and then copy over the stuff from the pad when greenlit
<elfy> yep :)
<ochosi> good
<elfy> I'm about now all day apart from food so will keep an eye on -release
<ochosi> great, can't promise yet i'll be around when it's time
<ochosi> so thanks for that!
<elfy> yep - that's fine - I'm guessing sort of 1700UTC ish from what he said he other day
<elfy> release notice is up now - if anyone wants to check it https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UtopicUnicorn/Beta1/Xubuntu
<elfy> will publish the announcement in a few hours
<ochosi> looks good, maybe wanna put the known issues in a list too?
<elfy> I knew that ... 
<elfy> :p
<slickymasterWork> ochosi: maybe now we could publish the inxi article in the blog ^^
<slickymasterWork> could/should
<elfy> makes sense to me
<ochosi> slickymasterWork: yup, sounds good!
<slickymasterWork> you're the boss ochosi ;)
<elfy> got page open - will publish it then
<ochosi> ty elfy 
<ochosi> quite the activity on our blog today
<slickymasterWork> elfy = always helpful
<ochosi> you mean elfy = alwaYs hELpFul
<elfy> linked to the inxi page in the beta announcement
<elfy> ochosi: lol
<slickymasterWork> lol, good one ochosi :)
<slickymasterWork> elfy: I'm getting a PAGE NOT FOUND in the beta announcement
<elfy> ochosi: we going to put beta on the front page
<elfy> slickymasterWork: it's not all live yet
<ochosi> yup, should
<slickymasterWork> oh, ok
<slickymasterWork> thought you guys already have published it
<elfy> no - we've not published announcement, the download link's not real yet either
<elfy> releasing at 20:30UTC ish it seems
<brainwash> you can use menulibre to edit the entries which are displayed in the settings manager, right?
<elfy> brainwash: yep
<brainwash> we got a dissatisfied customer here bug 1362734
<ubottu> bug 1362734 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "settings manager contains entries (icons) that are obsolete and cannot be fixed or removed" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1362734
<brainwash> he also mentions the missing gksu
<elfy> only got one nvidia-settings here, pretty sure was the same in trusty
<brainwash> shouldn't there be too? one for tasks which require root privileges?
<Unit193> Nah.
<elfy> nvidia-settings calls for root rights if you ask it to amend xorg.conf
<elfy> I've only ever seen one nvidia-settings 
<brainwash> strange, how did he end up with two launchers? =S
<Unit193> Playing with launchers too much?
<brainwash> but he does not seem to have a clue at all
<elfy> delete the useless one
<brainwash> yea, I'll tell him about menulibre and then close the report (or tell him to reassign it do the nvidia driver package which installs the launchers in the first place)
<brainwash> to the nvidia driver package
<elfy> yep
<elfy> Unit193: did you see ochosi's comments re minimal draft page earlier? "also, it's a bit brief. the first paragraph should explain a bit more what's good about it, but that only experienced users might wanna do it"
<Unit193> Mhmm.
<elfy> released now
<elfy> ochosi: not done the front page of xubuntu.org though
<elfy> night all
<Unit193> Also, should be ready to test core when I need to.
<Unit193> G'night.
<elfy> Unit193: I'll sort a call out for next week for that - then we can Done that trello card and blueprint
<ochosi> (late) evening everyone
<ochosi> bluesabre: btw, the xfpm plugin (in git master anyway) now has the minimum brightness level for scrolling over it as well
<ochosi> so you can't accidentally shut off your display anymore ;)
<ochosi> lderan: had to postpone your workitem for utopic btw since we're already past freeze
<lderan> okay, sorry for not getting it complete in time
<ochosi> sure no worries
<ochosi> it happens
<ochosi> would be good to keep us (i.e. either bluesabre or me) in the loop about these things
<lderan> aye will do so in the future
<ochosi> thanks!
<ochosi> did you produce anything testable though or just didn't have time to work on it at all?
<ochosi> (just curious cause i'd really love to have that around next cycle)
<lderan> nothing yet :(
<ochosi> ah ok :)
<ochosi> just wanted to avoid duplicate efforts, in case anyone else decides to hack on it
<lderan> will hopefully make some progress soon :)
<ochosi> cool, that'd be nice
<ochosi> should be easier than with light-locker-settings even, less UI :)
<lderan> \o/
<ochosi> (and the underlying app is python, so should all integrate nicely)
<lderan> huzzah for python :P
<brainwash> bluesabre: please take a look at bug 1313539
<ubottu> bug 1313539 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "monitor shows black screen and "no input signal" after turning the monitor off and on manually" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1313539
<brainwash> "There is a regression bug between xfce4-settings 4.11.0-1ubuntu1 (saucy) and 4.11.2-1ubuntu2 (trusty)."
<brainwash> display/monitor related
<bluesabre> gah
<bluesabre> we didn't change how the monitor turns on or off, just added an apply button
<bluesabre> actually
<bluesabre> we didn't change how monitors turn on or off, apply does not apply for that
<brainwash> but still.. the saucy package seems to work fine for these guys
<bluesabre> I'll take a look
<brainwash> thank you :)
<bluesabre> ok
<bluesabre> so, the only other difference is two ubuntu versions
<bluesabre> and Xorg, graphics drivers
<bluesabre> lots of things at play here
<bluesabre> oh right
<bluesabre> later comments
<brainwash> yeye
<ochosi> why doesn't ubottu post a buglink anymore
<ochosi> just a description
<ochosi> bug #1313539
<ubottu> bug 1313539 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "monitor shows black screen and "no input signal" after turning the monitor off and on manually" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1313539
<brainwash> he did
<ochosi> awh crap, my terminal had partially moved offscreen :>
<lderan> :P
<Unit193> !gender
<ubottu> yes, I can confirm I am a female bot :)
<bluesabre> "This issue does not occurs on another computer (with nVidia gfx card+Dell U2713HM+DVI cable)"
<bluesabre> this sounds painful to debug
<ochosi> seems a bit random
<ochosi> not even sure how to reproduce that
<ochosi> luckily the easy workaround is not to turn the monitor off manually :>
<ochosi> maybe a bug with displayport?
<ochosi> i mean xorg + displayport
<brainwash> mmh, but saucy package installed in trusty works fine
<ochosi> cause the other computer he mentions uses dvi
<brainwash> according to the comments
<ochosi> yeah, but from the scarce information we have, this seems to be the most promising lead
<ochosi> i for one haven't used a computer with displayport, so i guess that could be a reason why i've never seen it :>
<bluesabre> hardware bugs are the worse, since we can't just go and reproduce
<brainwash> :/
<bluesabre> *worst
<brainwash> at least we got some hints now
<ochosi> also, note that the guy who said that 4.11.3 doesn't work for him isn't the OP
<brainwash> right
<bluesabre> good point
<brainwash> but he should be also affected by this bug I'd guess
<ochosi> well, if you could've learned anything from the black screen bug report it's that sometimes users comment on a bug because they *think* it's the same bug
<ochosi> btw, it could be that the "new display"-listener causes that issue
<ochosi> the one that pops up the minimal dialog
<brainwash> asking them to run xfsettingsd in debug mode could help us
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> also, proposing this:
<bluesabre> @palomino @knnniggett
<meetingology> bluesabre: Error: "palomino" is not a valid command.
<bluesabre> Hardware bugs are particularly difficult to diagnose since there is such a wide gamut of combinations.  Can you try loading the xubuntu 14.10 beta1 live cd (no need to install) and see if this issue persists?  xfce4-settings is built using the other xfce libraries, so you want to make sure you have the latest combinations... which the current beta provides.
<bluesabre> If the issue does persist, can you also try switching monitors and testing again on both?  If we can narrow down the hardware combination, that might help us find a lead.
<bluesabre> thanks meetingology!
<ochosi> btw, the mythbuntu bugreport is really loooong
<ochosi> i wonder why they never brought this to our attention
<ochosi> https://bugs.launchpad.net/mythbuntu/+bug/1308105
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1308105 in xfce4-settings "Xfce resets TV mode to NULL when power cycled" [Medium,Confirmed]
<bluesabre> yeah
<brainwash> oh... I've ignored that report all the time
<brainwash> quite a few comments there
<bluesabre> and while not optimal, it would be nice if they could test with not-xfce as well
<bluesabre> oh wait, older xfce4-settings is not an issue, so nvm that
<brainwash> so 1313539 is yet another dupe
<ochosi> yeah, also on that other report, they say they tested with gnome-shell
<ochosi> seems that this is the upstream report: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11107
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 11107 in Xfsettingsd "xfsettingsd resets TV mode to NULL on power cycle" [Normal,New]
<ochosi> (extremely recent btw)
<ochosi> so yeah, the code that lionel added for reactivating the internal laptop display seems to be the cause of some of this headache
<ochosi> at least that's my superficial diagnosis
<ochosi> although it should (note: should) only get that RandR signal of not having an active monitor connected only when unplugging the cable
<bluesabre> good news is, this is not because of the latest 4.11.3
<ochosi> but unfortunately these hardware things work differently it seems
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> so while it fixes a very annoying problem, there seems to be a regression around in it
<ochosi> although since it was a new feature at the time, it's not technically a regression
<brainwash> so, we can mark the report as duplicate of the mythbuntu one?
<ochosi> brainwash: not sure yet, i haven't tested or investigated anything, i'm just thinking out loud
<ochosi> bluesabre: the upstream bugreport also has the debug output btw
<bluesabre> yeah
<brainwash> wow, so this issue isn't that small after all
<ochosi> well, it only happens in a very specific scenario
<ochosi> and only with hardware that sends a specific RandR signal when it shouldn't
<ochosi> (or at least when we'd not expect it to)
<ochosi> anyway, time to go to sleep
<ochosi> night everyone
<bluesabre> night ochosi
<brainwash> good night
#xubuntu-devel 2014-08-29
<bluesabre> Unit193: poke
<Unit193> bluesabre: I didn't do it, it was ochosi.
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> ochosi: poke
<Unit193> :D
<bluesabre> Unit193: so, where is the xfwm4+patch hiding?
<Unit193> https://sigma.unit193.net/source/xfwm4_4.11.2-0ubuntu2.dsc where it normally is.
<bluesabre> thanks
<Unit193> Sure thing.
<bluesabre> looks good, pushed
<Unit193> brainwash: ^
<Unit193> Thanks.
<bluesabre> power-manager time
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> Ah, at least one thing out of there.
<Unit193> bluesabre: So, got it figured out or need a pointer?
<bluesabre> have a pointer to give?
<Unit193> In shlibs, -xxfce4-panel
<Unit193> Tell me if it actually works, didn't look too far into it. :P
<bluesabre> in shlibs...
<bluesabre> debian/shlibs?
 * bluesabre is in unknown territory
<holstein> knome: ok :)
<Unit193> override_dh_shlibdeps -- -xxfce4-panel, if I read correctly, bluesabre.
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> ok, I know where that goes at least ;)
<Unit193> If you read the manpage, you may get a different understanding than I do though.
<bluesabre> hm, no good, Depends: libc6 (>= 2.4), libcairo2 (>= 1.2.4), libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.37.3), libgtk2.0-0 (>= 2.18.0), libupower-glib1 (>= 0.9.0), libx11-6, libxfce4ui-1-0 (>= 4.9.1), libxfce4util6 (>= 4.9.0), libxfconf-0-2 (>= 4.6.0), libxrandr2 (>= 2:1.2.99.2), xfce4-panel (>= 4.11), xfce4-panel (<< 4.13), xfce4-power-manager (>= 0.8.0~), xfce4-panel (>= 4.11.0) | lxpanel
<bluesabre> oh wait
<bluesabre> typo
<Unit193> Not going to version that lxpanel ?
<bluesabre> 1 thing at a time :)
<Unit193> :D
<Unit193> Another thing to think about when the time comes, looking at a bottom limit or a roof?
<bluesabre> I think ochosi said the api is completely different with the next lxpanel release
<bluesabre> so, << 0.7
<Unit193> Exactly what I'm referring to, yep.
<bluesabre> dang, still didn't work
<Unit193> Yeeeep, read that one wrong, I see.
<bluesabre> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8173916/
<Unit193>  X != x
<bluesabre>        -Xitem, --exclude=item
<Unit193> -- means pass it to dpkg-shlibdeps.
<Unit193> http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/trusty/en/man1/dpkg-shlibdeps.1.html I could be reading that part wrong though, but looks right to me.
<bluesabre> oh
<bluesabre> manpage is different there
<bluesabre> longer
<bluesabre> I'll try little x now
<Unit193> dh_shlibdeps != dpkg-shlibdeps
<Unit193> (Also, why do you think I took the lxpanel side?)
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> yay!
<bluesabre> Depends: libc6 (>= 2.4), libcairo2 (>= 1.2.4), libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.37.3), libgtk2.0-0 (>= 2.18.0), libupower-glib1 (>= 0.9.0), libx11-6, libxfce4ui-1-0 (>= 4.9.1), libxfce4util6 (>= 4.9.0), libxfconf-0-2 (>= 4.6.0), libxrandr2 (>= 2:1.2.99.2), xfce4-power-manager (>= 0.8.0~), xfce4-panel (>= 4.11.0) | lxpanel
<Unit193> There you go, sparky!
<bluesabre> you still did all the work, but now I'll know for next time
<Unit193> Heh, well there is that, yeah. >_>
<Unit193> Remember to version the b-dep on 0.6.2-0ubuntu2 else you won't get the headers, and I guess we need to bump that bug now. :/
<bluesabre> well, this won't build with that until we get the lxpanel in there
<bluesabre> do we want to do it all at once?
<Unit193> Just waiting on someone to sponsor lp 1361459
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1361459 in lxpanel (Ubuntu) "lxpanel is missing the development files" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1361459
<bluesabre> we could also subscribe gilir to that bug
<Unit193> Might be good, also give a heads up he'll want to seed -plugins unless it's too late.
<Unit193> +could, I meant could.
<bluesabre> want to subscribe him?
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> Done.
<bluesabre> yay!
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> And...
<Unit193> For good luck and all.
<bluesabre> nice
<Unit193> Anything else I need to look at?
<bluesabre> I think you're clear
<bluesabre> go have some fun
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> Eh, no fun to be had.
<bluesabre> D:
<bluesabre> make one of these http://uk.reuters.com/video/2014/08/20/hoverbike-aims-to-take-aviation-to-a-new?videoId=340553849
<Unit193> Hah, also funny because it redirected me to "Genetically modified mosquitoes to combat dengue in Brazil"
<bluesabre> I tried
<bluesabre> micahg_, mr_pouit: if either of you are around, would you mind adding me to https://launchpad.net/~gtk-theme-config-maintainers so I can make a release :)
<elfy> good day peeps
<elfy> ochosi: front page of xubuntu.org - do we want to add the beta to that - or replace LTS with the beta?
<brainwash> Unit193: thanks for re-introducing the patch :)
<ochosi> elfy: i think adding the beta might be a good idea. the lts announcement is still fairly recent and might interest
<ochosi> as soon as we're at the final beta or RC of 14.10, we can always remove it
<elfy> ochosi: agreed - and so did whoever did it :p
<elfy> bug 1294209 got fixed then the fix was reverted - is the bug going to be fixed again for trusty?
<ubottu> bug 1294209 in xfdesktop "Deleting files from desktop freezes machine for short period" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1294209
<elfy> bug 10778 is the bugzilla one
<ubottu> bug 10778 in texinfo (Ubuntu) "info needs UTF-8-Support" [Wishlist,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/10778
<elfy> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10778
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10778 in General "Deleting file from desktop freezes system" [Normal,Reopened]
<knome_> xfce 10778
<ubottu> xfce bug 10778 in General "Deleting file from desktop freezes system" [Normal,Reopened] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10778
<knome> elfy, ^
<elfy> knome: aah :)
<elfy> thanks 
<knome> np, and good afternoon
<knome> wait, it's still morning there
<elfy> it is :)
<knome> calculation fail
<elfy> I'll bank that for 36 minutes time :p
<knome> heh
<brainwash> elfy: bug 1319029
<ubottu> bug 1319029 in xfdesktop " Deleting files from desktop freezes machine for short period" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1319029
<brainwash> ^ the reason why it got re-opened
<elfy> brainwash: yes I know - I didn't see the need in spamming the channel with a whole bunch of bug lines :)
<elfy> that though isn't what I'd like to know - what I'd like to know is if it's going to fixed - again :p
<elfy> glorious - I'm stuck in nvidia/nouveau limbo again :( 
<elfy> nvidia installed, nouveau being used 
<ochosi> elfy: yeah, i changed it
<ochosi> (i mean the frontpage)
<elfy> ochosi: thanks 
<elfy> yep - guessed 
<brainwash> ochosi: should the 14.10 beta page inform the user about our compton config? some may want to test it
<knome> brainwash, aren't you a bit late? we worked on the release announcement the other day
<brainwash> beta 2
<brainwash> :P
<knome> right... is there a beta 2 page yet?
<elfy> I'd say if we wanted people to do that - would be useful to do so seperately, much like the mucking about with core
<ochosi> bluesabre was against it, since we're not actively endorsing compton (and i agree)
<brainwash> the thing is, I've just noticed it 2 minutes ago
<ochosi> brainwash: feel free to blog about it ;)
<knome> i've been jumping on and off, so i might have missed something...
<brainwash> ochosi: but we could need some feedback
<ochosi> brainwash: not sure, we're supplying a config that might work for most
<ochosi> but that's about it
<ochosi> it might work great for some, not at all for others
<ochosi> (which is also the reason why we won't ship compton by default)
<ochosi> so yeah, it is exactly that, i don't want a bugreport with 100 different users endorsing different configs. with all the types of hardware and drivers we wouldn't know what to ship anyway
<brainwash> mmh, so we should place the config somewhere else, so it's not picked by default when compton is installed
<brainwash> these are not the default settings of compton
<ochosi> yeah, ofc they're not. they're made to resemble our default theme visually
<brainwash> ok fine
<brainwash> where is mr_pouit ? I could need some help with cleaning up launchpad reports :P
<knome> he's mostly inactive. why do you need him specifically?
<brainwash> he used to be very active on launchpad, well, few years ago
<brainwash> it's just that people do report bugs, but many don't receive an answer during the release cycle (if any answer at all)
<knome> right... so replying is up to those who are actually available and active during the cycle, not people who used to be active 2 years ago, do you agree?
<brainwash> I do
<knome> so why do we need to poke lionel, who isn't really active any more?
<brainwash> worth a try
<brainwash> he might feel the urge to fight against army of zombie launchpad reports one more time :D
 * ochosi doubts anyone has ever felt that urge
<brainwash> it helps the project
<brainwash> ideally the current package maintainer(s) would do this, but I know that it's a time consuming task
<ochosi> brainwash: frankly, one bug tracker is enough for me
<ochosi> i've been cleaning up bugs.xfce for quite a while now, mostly for the components i contribute to
<ochosi> but another bugtracker would mean getting even less done
<brainwash> I know that
<brainwash> ochosi: I need some help with bug 1188065
<ubottu> bug 1188065 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu) "xfce4-power-manager describes battery capacity incorrectly" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1188065
<brainwash> valid request?
<brainwash> this has not been reported upstream yet
<ochosi> it's somewhat valid, but i'm not sure what upower offers exactly
<ochosi> we don't calculate these values ourselves
<brainwash> ah I see
<Unit193> brainwash: So yes, thanks for keeping the bug reports down.  Usually when I look, it's several "$package failed to install/upgrade: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 2" or one of those. :/
<lbracher> Hi there! Do you know if it's possible to do a PXE boot using a xubuntu iso? TIA!
<Unit193> Yep.
<Unit193> Or if not, I better undo doing it. :P
<Unit193> ...Though yeah this is the development channel.
#xubuntu-devel 2014-08-30
<ochosi> bluesabre: we might wanna set better default values for the blank/DPMS timeouts in xfpm. the current ones seem really low (iirc 1min on battery, 10mins on ac)
<elfy> morning peeps
<ochosi> morning elfy
<elfy> hi ochosi 
<elfy> broken nvidia here with the combination of nouveau being like molasses and I'm in trusty for a while :p
<ochosi> that's sorta what it's there for :)
<ochosi> so nouveau is broken for you?
<elfy> dog slow - changing workspaces - I end up with everything on one untill it sorts itself out
<elfy> though it could be something else - I've not got the patience today to find out - all I can say is that a clean install acts the same way :p
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> and nvidia doesn't really work either?
<elfy> nope 
<ochosi> :/
<elfy> install nvidia - it uses nouveau
<ochosi> that's odd
<elfy> yep
<ochosi> tried to create xorg.conf with the nvidia settings dialog yet?
<elfy> there is an issue - I've seen chatter about it 
<elfy> no - but pretty sure it's not going to work - nvidia broke with yesterday's kernel update for some
<ochosi> right, let's hope it'll get sorted until the release
<elfy> I'm sure it will :)
<elfy> might try one of the other nvidia options later - was using the -updates one
<brainwash> hello ochosi and elfy 
<elfy> morning brainwash 
<ochosi> hey
<brainwash> elfy: did you forward bug 1358361 upstream?
<ubottu> bug 1358361 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Thunar needs a pkexec policy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1358361
<elfy> brainwash: no, ochosi and I talked about that at the time - I did do mousepad - which got a confused "what am I supposed to do with this" comment so I really forgot about doing the same for thunar ;)
<elfy> makes sense really - pkexec should be a distro thing logically
<elfy> we might need it - does anyone else?
<brainwash> I guess so, shouldn't hurt to ship the policy file, so every distro gets it
<elfy> the other thing I guess is that while *we* forwarded the LP bug upstream - mousepad probably wasn't the place to do it
<brainwash> so, a mailing list discussion is needed here
<elfy> and I've no idea *where* it should be reported
<elfy> brainwash: sorry - I'm not going to get involved in any pkexec discussion - I use gksu - and will continue to do so untill it's not available
<elfy> not shipping gksu with a suitable replacement for however long we did was short-sighted at best
<brainwash> and I don't use any apps which would require gksu or pkexec :)
<brainwash> maybe should reassign the 2 bug reports to xubu default settings then?
<brainwash> and keep things downstream
<elfy> I'd guess so
<elfy> agreed - and done
<brainwash> thanks
<elfy> no idea what to do with the upstream bug xfce 11088
<ubottu> xfce bug 11088 in General "Pkexec policy needed for OS using pkexec" [Normal,New] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11088
<elfy> probably needs to be marked invalid or something
<elfy> they've both been released I believe 
<brainwash> leave it open, maybe it will start a discussion on how to include/install the policy file
<elfy> the two LP bugs are all sorted now, right package and marked as released
<brainwash> nice
<brainwash> next report
<brainwash> bug 1363223
<ubottu> bug 1363223 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu) "xfce4-power-manager outdated on-line help" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1363223
<brainwash> on-line help
<brainwash> that's the xfce wiki page, right?
<elfy> that'll be right 
<elfy> yea - so I think I'd be right in assuming that none of that has been updated for the new version
<brainwash> I remember that someone worked on the wiki page for xfdesktop 4.11
<brainwash> slickymaster?
<elfy> would have been at least him - possibly jjfrv8 too
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, Can you please sync libxfce4util?
<elfy> brainwash: and whoever else got corralled into help with it :)
<brainwash> elfy: should we link the report the right 14.10 blueprint?
<elfy> yea
<brainwash> elfy: xubuntu-u-docs?
<elfy> I'd say so 
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, Corsac removed the delta in an upload about 30 min ago
<brainwash> but it's actually the xfce wiki page
<brainwash> so upstream work
<elfy> also will need adding to trello
<elfy> brainwash: yes - but we still need to track it
<brainwash> right
<elfy> we can always unlink it - better to at least have it visible 
<brainwash> yea :)
<elfy> done trello
<elfy> ok - added a todo to -docs as well
<elfy> brainwash: so - mailing list discussion - did you mean xfce mailing list? 
<ochosi> commented on the xfpm docs bug
<brainwash> yes, it should be discussed upstream
<brainwash> ochosi: ah, makes sense, 1.3 is just a dev release and things will change slightly
<ochosi> well, not anymore i hope
<ochosi> but if you compare the 1.3 releases, the settings dialog always looked a tad different
<ochosi> (and it might change again after 1.4)
<ochosi> i'm happy to coordinate ppl, if anyone wants to help with that
<brainwash> I was thinking that the person responsible for the awesome xfdesktop 4.11 wiki page could be interested in doing the same for xfpm
<ochosi> right, that was jjfrv8 and slickymaster (and me a bit)
<elfy> jjfrv8 is away and busy afaik lately, if we need help and I can I will
<elfy> shame that Toz doesn't get involved more here - he spends most of his time on the forum chasing down xubuntu issues 
<ochosi> true
<ochosi> elfy: well you could always try to motivate him...
<ochosi> i'm not on the forums anymore, so i never get in touch with him
<elfy> he comes here most weekends ;)
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> never notized
<ochosi> noticed
<elfy> or at least when he's on freenode he comes here as well as the forum staff channel
<elfy> right - well I'm off to get the day going and getting out dad's taxi ... cya later :)
<brainwash> elfy: support for xfsm-shutdown to work with pkexec has been added upstream
<brainwash> including the file org.xfce.session.policy
<bluesabre> morning everybody
<elfy> morning bluesabre 
<elfy> brainwash: nice 
<bluesabre> hey elfy
<bluesabre> avoid kernel updates for nvidia... done
<elfy> lol
<ochosi> hey bluesabre 
<brainwash> elfy: now I'm trying to get eric involved, maybe he is able to get the policy files in (upstream)
<brainwash> hello bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey ochosi, brainwash
<Unit193> Debian #690339 may be quite important to Xfce...
<ubottu> Debian bug 690339 in libxfce4util4 "Don't use double forking when launching applications since it breaks pkexec" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/690339
<Unit193> Ah, xfce 9373
<ubottu> xfce bug 9373 in General "double fork breaks desktop files containing pkexec" [Normal,Resolved: fixed] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9373
<brainwash> do we need to patch our package in ubuntu?
<Unit193> http://git.xfce.org/xfce/libxfce4ui/log/ unreleased at least.  Filed incorrectly?  Since we start policykit auth agent, it seems that works for now.
<brainwash> we don't ship any "pkexec <app>" .desktop files either
<Unit193> Doesn't mean they aren't installed.
<brainwash> or created manually by the user
<Unit193> Exec=synaptic-pkexec  seems they use a different method in general though.
<brainwash> that's a simple wrapper script
<Unit193> Hah, very.
<bluesabre> ochosi: re: Better default values in xfpm, any suggestions?
<ochosi_> bluesabre: hmyeah, maybe like this
<ochosi_> on battery: blank: 10, dpms sleep: 15, dpms off: 30
<ochosi_> on ac: blank: 15, dpms sleep: 20, dpms off: 60
<bluesabre> alrighty, that sounds reasonable
<ochosi_> might also end up setting those times upstream
<ochosi_> but it might be a good idea to carry that in x-d-s anyway
<brainwash> why different values for dpms sleep and off?
<brainwash> having 3 steps is somewhat confusing
<brainwash> blank -> sleep -> off
<bluesabre> I think its because of monitor power states
<bluesabre> on, black -> sleep -> off
<brainwash> Standby: 0    Suspend: 0    Off: 600
<brainwash> there is also suspend (dpms)
<brainwash> now it's getting really confusing
<brainwash> or is suspend = sleep?
<brainwash> oh right
<ochosi_> off takes longer than suspend for coming back/waking up
<ochosi_> and uses less power
<brainwash> and standby does what?
<ochosi> standby and suspend are two different modes that also have slightly different power-usages and wakeup-times
<ochosi> might differ depending on hardware
<ochosi> in xfpm we only offer one "sleep mode"
<ochosi> that can be configured via a hidden option
<ochosi> since yet another slider or combobox would be kinda over the top
<ochosi> default is suspend iirc
<brainwash> yea, keep it simple
<bluesabre> ochosi: found another setting that we were missing for suspend-locking
<bluesabre> complete diff: http://paste.ubuntu.com/8187072/
 * bluesabre should alphabetize
<ochosi> bluesabre: right, possible that this wasn't explicitely needed, since we set that in xfce4-session, no?
<ochosi> (and xfpm syncs with session)
<ochosi> anyway, the rest looks nice! thanks!
<bluesabre> actually, not defined in our default session either
<bluesabre> applying
<ochosi> maybe it's a default value
<bluesabre> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8187098/
<bluesabre> ^ mainly comparing with my current xml
<bluesabre> so many places with same or similar settings
<bluesabre> ochosi__: spotty internet today?
<ochosi__> not sure it's me or freenode
<bluesabre> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8187098/ in case you lost it
<ochosi__> the rest of my connection is always up
<ochosi__> yup, said it looks good before
<ochosi__> but maybe that didn't reach you anymore :)
<bluesabre> new paste
<ochosi> netsplits
<ochosi> yeah, saw that one before
<bluesabre> ok
<bluesabre> just to verify, we do want dpms-enabled, right?
<elfy> busy busy busy you lot :)
<elfy> quick question ochosi - why is it that everyone gets the battery icon now?
<ochosi> bluesabre: yup
<ochosi> elfy: because it is a plugin, not a trayicon that can be shown/hidden conditionally
<bluesabre> elfy: should be a lightning bolt for desktop folks
<bluesabre> or, I thought so
<ochosi> bluesabre: not anymore ;)
<elfy> bluesabre: possibly
<ochosi> it's a plug now
<ochosi> anyway, the thing is that it shows more stuff, like connected devices
<bluesabre> ochosi messes with me
<ochosi> bluesabre: no way, i showed the icon to you before pushing it!
<elfy> mmm - not really answering why - just what :p
<bluesabre> oh right, *that* icon
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> elfy: i did answer your question
<ochosi> 14:00  ochosi$ elfy: because it is a plugin, not a trayicon that can be shown/hidden conditionally
<ochosi> that's the simple reason
<elfy> ok - so why was it added - regardless of whether it's a plugin or trayicon ;)
<elfy> wasn't there before in desktop
<bluesabre> right
<elfy> not that it's important - just something else I remove 
<ochosi> well as i said...
<ochosi> it's a plugin
<bluesabre> lol
<ochosi> you cannot add/remove it conditionally
<elfy> oic - so desktop HAS to have it because it might be useful in laptop ?
<ochosi> yup
<elfy> okey doke - thanks :)
<ochosi> we can only put it there or not put it there (for everyone)
<bluesabre> its not just for laptop power though
<ochosi> and since it's important for laptops and by far not useless for desktops...
<bluesabre> it shows wireless mice charge, has presentation mdoe, etc
<ochosi> yup, what he ^ says :)
<elfy> yep noticed the pointless presentation mode for elfy :p
<bluesabre> :)
<elfy> but I agree we'd not be wanting to NOT have it for laptops :)
<bluesabre> actually, that might be handy for vnc users as well
<ochosi> hehe, good
<elfy> just got to ask the questions :)
<Unit193> fr.po   71.8978%  getting close!
<brainwash> someone does not like to uninstall re-installed packages on every release upgrade
<brainwash> bug 1314153
<ubottu> bug 1314153 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "XUbuntu reinstalls all default packages on release update" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1314153
<brainwash> but what can we actually do resolve this?
<brainwash> do we even want to -> invalid?
<Unit193> Here's a useful hint, right before you do an upgrade,  sudo apt-get --no-install-recommends install xubuntu-desktop.  You'll at least get a little less (or a lot) than before.  I had thought about this before, but only tried it on the last two upgrades and am happier with the result.
<brainwash> so, no actual bug here
<Unit193> There will be a bug in the future, but I don't want to try and address it now. :P
<brainwash> it's the expected behavior to pull in recommended packages
<Unit193> Yep.
<Unit193> I'd comment mentioning --no-install-recommends, but that's not really a bug.
<brainwash> and the user is free to disable recommends in apt (config)
<brainwash> alright
<Unit193> Mhmm, but also not recommended.
<brainwash> no?
<Unit193> No, can cause issues.  Lubuntu did that by default, it caused issues there.
<brainwash> maybe, but this particular user does not like to have those packages on his system
<Unit193> The problem will be when someone installs using mini.iso and then the Xubuntu-core task, then on upgrade gets xubuntu-desktop. :P
<brainwash> oh mmh
<ochosi> :)
<Unit193> I think I'm going to regret mentioning that.
<ochosi> not a huge problem though, i mean folks using xubuntu-core are supposed to be semi-experts at least anyway
<Unit193> ochosi: Yeah, but I believe if xubuntu-artwork, xubuntu-default-settings, and xfwm4 are installed, you get xubuntu-desktop on upgrade...
<ochosi> you mean if all of them or one of them is installed?
<Unit193> All.
<ochosi> right
 * ochosi shrugs
<Unit193> So, do we want to fix this?  It would include talking to :other people:.
<ochosi> well, how can it be fixed?
<ochosi> (if it can be, i guess we should)
<brainwash> tell us :D
<ochosi> yeah, but come on, it's not *actual* talking
<Unit193> Change the priority in DistUpgrade.cfg so that if those and xubuntu-core is installed, it gets us xubuntu-core.
<Unit193> The concept of upgrades with -core isn't fun. :P
<Unit193> KeyDependencies: Dependencies that are considered "key" dependencies of the meta-pkg to detect if it was installed but later removed by the user
<Unit193> But I don't see a good, simple fix to this either.
<ochosi> hmm
<ochosi> well i'm no expert on this, so you better to to someone "who knows"
<ochosi> s/to to/talk to/
<Unit193> Hence, telking to creepers, mhmm.
<ochosi> bluesabre: since we disabled all workspace features in xfwm4 by default, i guess we should disable the "wrap workspaces when reaching the screen edge" too
<ochosi> bluesabre: from what i saw in 14.10 "with a dragged window" is still activated
<ochosi> bluesabre: the other thing in x-d-s is adding a keyboard shortcut for whiskermenu (super+space)
<elfy> ochosi: what's the matter with ctrl+esc 
<elfy> which is what it is atm
<ochosi> elfy: just an additional shortcut that mirrors what many other DEs have
<ochosi> (at least unity does)
<ochosi> (and if memory serves, gnome3 too)
<ochosi> g2g
<ochosi> have a nice evening everyone!
<bluesabre> ochosi: good point
<ochosi> just noticed cause tested the live session of 14.10 with a friend
<brainwash> ochosi: you should read the last comment on bug 1287171
<ubottu> bug 1287171 in light-locker (Ubuntu) "light-locker breaks x11vnc as service" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1287171
<brainwash> some people just are not able to read all the previous comments before adding yet another comment :/
#xubuntu-devel 2014-08-31
<ochosi> brainwash: frankly, not sure *why* i should've read that comment, especially after what you commented on it (and instead of pinging me, you could've just replied...)
<brainwash> ochosi: you should have read it, because it's hilarious
<brainwash> maybe close the report for good?
<skellat> brainwash: I read some of these bug reports and get horrified when the comments are made.  That one from 2014-08-04 is worrisome.
<brainwash> it is
<ochosi> i personally find the one from 2014-08-31 more worrisome
<skellat> ochosi: The person ended up treating the bug like a thread on AskUbuntu.
<skellat> That you had to go that far to tell the user what they could do with their EOL version...
<skellat> ...is above and beyond on customer service
<ochosi> yeah, that's just a user who doesn't know better
<skellat> Reading the "xubuntu" tag on AskUbuntu gets freaky with all that people try to do to the distro
<brainwash> I suggest that we create a wishlist report for "light-locking without vt switch" and link all corresponding reports to it
<skellat> Such as this: http://askubuntu.com/questions/516314/xubuntu-14-04-disable-desktop-and-panel
<skellat> brainwash: +1
<ochosi> brainwash: feel free to do that, and link it to the 2.0 milestone for ll on github
<brainwash> sure
<skellat> ochosi: If bluesabre or anybody else from Team can knock that AU question linked above out I'd be most grateful
<ochosi> skellat: kiosk mode is borked in xfce afaik
<ochosi> nobody has really looked after it for a while
<ochosi> i guess not enough people use it
<ochosi> or devs aren't interested enough in it as a use-case
<ochosi> not much else that can be said there
<bluesabre> quick, somebody throw some money at it on bountysource
<bluesabre> :)
<skellat> ochosi: bluesabre does have a user account on AU so relate such to him so he can post the answer in his persona at XTL
<skellat> please
<ochosi> bluesabre: could do that actually :) not sure that'll magically make new contributors surface all of a sudden who implement it ;)
<bluesabre> skellat: I'll review it and come up with a response tonight/tomorrow
<bluesabre> there is probably a way to disable right-click with xsession
<bluesabre> I'll do some research
<brainwash> but we don't even know if it really is broken
<bluesabre> " The public user account will be restrict to create folders on desktop or disable right click on desktop and disable right click on panel or disable adding new icons on panel."
<brainwash> the xfce kiosk mode settings
<bluesabre> sounds like killing right-click is what he really wants
<bluesabre> can probably also write-lock xfconf or something else
<bluesabre> I'll poke around a bit
<skellat> bluesabre: Thank you!
<skellat> If people want to patrol AU for the questions about Xubuntu, they're generally tagged here: http://askubuntu.com/questions/tagged/xubuntu?sort=newest&pageSize=50
<brainwash> I don't do AU
<brainwash> still some work to do on launchpad =S
<Noskcaj> brainwash, What do you have against australia?
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: do *not* click on skellat's link, it'll eat all your free time! :D
<Noskcaj> :)
<bluesabre> ochosi: free time? what's that?
<brainwash> nothing, I like the mountains, great for skiing :P
<ochosi> (my favorite is: "upgrade xubuntu 6.04 to more recent OS on ppc")
<brainwash> jk
<skellat> ochosi: I cringe a lot looking at the questions
 * ochosi closes the tab and decides never to click on a link that starts with "askubuntu.com/" ever again
 * skellat wanders off to go check on his cat and go after a session of patrolling *A*sk *U*buntu
<skellat> s/go/dog/
<bluesabre> ochosi: bored?
<bluesabre> http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/xfce4-power-manager
<bluesabre> :]
<bluesabre> or will this be updated with 1.4?
<ochosi> yeah, but there's both a bugreport on lp on it and an entry in the roadmap to 1.4 (which has been there since the first 1.3 release, because i put it there...)
<bluesabre> cool
<ochosi> too many UI changes along the way to meaningfully start this
 * bluesabre un-nags
<ochosi> and since it's online, there's no release-critical deadline
<bluesabre> yeah
<ochosi> but yeah, that page sucks and should go away in its entirety
<ochosi> and be replaced by a forward to docs.xfce
<ochosi> (like we did with parole)
<ochosi> anyway, time for bed
<ochosi> night everyone
<Unit193> Do we tuck him in?
<ochosi> :>
<bluesabre> skellat: answered a few questions while I was in there
<bluesabre> going to be lazy, bbl
<Unit193> forestpiskie: And, that's one dang evil kernel you got there. :/
<Unit193> Having to use Openbox Desktop 14.10 just to watch Doctor Who.
<Proffesor> ok, any focus on testing at the moment?
<Proffesor> as in.. what should i be testing?
<Proffesor> test
<Madhead> ok,
<Noskcaj> Madhead, A lot of people are asleep now.
<Noskcaj> including our head of QA (testing)
<Noskcaj> But anything that's on iso.qa.ubuntu.com or packages.qa.ubuntu.com is good
<Madhead> thats ok.. just wondered if anyone knew. 
<Noskcaj> We also have a staging ppa at https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/xubuntu-staging if you want to test the things in it
<Madhead> ok im on it.. ill start filling apports
<Noskcaj> cool
<Noskcaj> For issues in the staging ppa, report the bugs upstream on in the channel as launchpad is only for stuff in the ubuntu archives
<Madhead> so, prepare a word doc, and upload in the morning?
<Madhead> or better time
<Noskcaj> Madhead, COuld you introduce yourself to everyone on our mailing list? xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, ping
<Madhead> bump
<Noskcaj> Could you sync libxfce4util from unstable or experimental (either works, 4.11 seems to be bugfix only)
<Noskcaj> Madhead, What do you mean
<Madhead> im here
<Madhead> got my vm ready just waiting on the daily iso
<Noskcaj> cool.
<Madhead> i think the daily iso should be hosted on git
<Noskcaj> why?
<Madhead> 1 gig download every so often could be reduced to a patch
<Madhead> of say a few kb
<Noskcaj> Madhead, been done, except with zsync or rsync
<Madhead> then again im not sure idf it does binaries
<Noskcaj> !zsync
<ubottu> Use zsync to update your Ubuntu CD image without needing to download the parts that didn't change. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ZsyncCdImage
<Noskcaj> !!rsync
<ubottu> rsync is a fast remote file copy and synchronization program - For more see: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/rsync
<Noskcaj> Or you can use testdrive to automatically do that, and automatically make a VM
<Madhead> thanks.. as you can tell im new here.. i suffer from boredom and insomnia.. soo i want to be productive
<Noskcaj> :)
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, Also, should we try and revive the Xfce 4.12 PPA, or just switch to xubuntu-staging + a PPA for stuff that's stable but can't be backported
<Madhead> on the subject of version controll, are previouse builds kept?
<Noskcaj> No. Only todays, yesterdays, and all actually released things
<Madhead> hmm, some binary diffs should be kept i think.. ask a uni to host it to use as case studies
<Madhead> *university
<Madhead> oh wait, going backwards from the latest build could be a pain
<Madhead> maybe the diffs could be generated using the previouse lts release iso as a master to compare with the daily..
<Madhead> bigger patches 
<Madhead> but doable
<Noskcaj> Madhead, We do keep all packages, so there's not much point in keeping ISOs too
<Noskcaj> but yeah, it would be possible, someone might even do it and i don't know
<Madhead> bootnotes board..
<Madhead> do you guys have an office?
<Madhead> ok the iso is done
<Madhead> note - using i386
<Noskcaj> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/315/builds/77292/testcases
<Noskcaj> That's where you put the results, and link any bugs found
<Unit193> Noskcaj: Why sync libxfce4util?  It gives no benefit as the stuff in the last upload brings it up to par with what we already have.  4.11 is more likely as it fixes more bugs, but then again past FF and that's a "big" version bump.
<knives2886> hello is anyone around?
<Unit193> Not for long, though.  It's night where a lot of us are.
<pleia2> and I don't know anything about msi am2 apus ;)
<Unit193> If that's the question, a big no from me too. :P
<knives2886> oi
<knives2886> i dont wanna risk the update if im gonna have to lose all my data. iv tried 5 times with no luck on my computer even trying the fixes out there failed for me
<Unit193> Live boot?
<knives2886> live or update it locks up after boot screen
<knives2886> idk if the 14.01.1 is a fix for the msi apu users or not or even if the 14.10 has the fixes. i mean i guess i can try installing to a pos hdd just to try it out but idk if its even worth the effort
<Madhead> mugshot is incomplete... i facepalmed as i typed in the wrong password twice.
<Madhead> which is a feature of my password making skills
<Madhead> erm.. other than that its really nice in a virtual machine
<Madhead> wheres the main logs folder?
<Madhead> for booting and kernel stuff.. dry reading but
<Madhead> and parole streamed buck bunny no problem as an mp4 using no nonefree codecs
<Madhead> a full report will be done soon
<Noskcaj> Unit193, why not? There's no real risk of regression, and any sort of fix (even a typo fix) is nice to have before release
<Madhead> see you soon
<elfy> morning peeps
<brainwash> morning elfy 
<elfy> hi brainwash 
<brainwash> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11088
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 11088 in General "Pkexec policy needed for OS using pkexec" [Normal,New]
<brainwash> good news :)
<elfy> :p
<elfy> I realised that adding gdebi adds gksu - I'm good to go :D
<elfy> I saw that bug stuff last night I think :)
<brainwash> can you also copy&paste a report for thunar?
<elfy> yea
<brainwash> thanks, I'll poke eric then again
<elfy> mmm
<elfy> I thought the policy files in polkit-1/actions got renamed? 
<brainwash> what do you mean?
<elfy> only files I've got here are called com.ubuntu.pkexec.blah
<elfy> thought they were changing to xfce
<brainwash> the upstream one is named "org.xfce.mousepad.policy"
<elfy> well it's got whatever I've got in /usr/share for better or worse now :p
<elfy> xfce 11122
<ubottu> xfce bug 11122 in general "Thunar Pkexec policy needed for OS using pkexec" [Normal,New] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11122
<brainwash> our temporary one "com.ubuntu.pkexec.mousepad.policy"
<brainwash> great, thanks
<elfy> brainwash: not sure why you bothere adding upstream to a fixed LP one - I removed upstream from the mousepad one yesterday
<brainwash> well, it helps to keep track of things
<elfy> not sure how - who's going to look at a fixed bug ;)
<brainwash> we will have to remove our policy files (xubu default settings) at some point
<brainwash> so, I also wanted to add "thunar (ubuntu)"
<brainwash> which would leave the report open
<brainwash> normal xfce does not install xubu default settings
<elfy> anyway - I've lost interest in pkexec now - only wish I could stop seeing the bug reports 
<brainwash> :D
<brainwash> ok, removed the bug watch
<elfy> :)
<bluesabre> per the logs, looks like its time to release the new mugshot
<bluesabre> :)
<elfy> morning bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey elfy
<bluesabre> hey guys, if anybody would be interested in doing translations today: https://translations.launchpad.net/mugshot
<ochosi> bluesabre: i'll try to do mugshot de tonight
<bluesabre> ochosi: thanks
<ochosi> np
<bluesabre> I'll probably do the next release tonight, should fix things for a few users, and make the password dialog more attractive :)
<ochosi> okeydokey, nice :)
<ochosi> bbl
<bluesabre> seeya
<knome> bluesabre, always feel free to specifically ping me on translation requests
<knome> "Cannot display camera output.Ignoring play command" missing space and comma?
<knome> "Lightweight user configuration"
<knome> isn't that incorrect? i would consider the "users and groups" -dialog a "user configuration" app
<knome> "Mugshot enables users to easily updates personal contact information."
<knome> s/updates/update/ ?
<brainwash> bluesabre: can you add shimmer-shimmer to the depends of xfce4-settings? bug 1322305
<ubottu> bug 1322305 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "xfc4-settings needs shimmer-themes as a dependency" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1322305
<brainwash> not sure about the icon-theme
<brainwash> our xubuntu-specific patch changes these 2 settings, but the greybird and elementary xfce are not pulled in by default (default Xfce, not Xubuntu)
<brainwash> greybird and elementary xfce packages
<bluesabre> Unit193: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/utopic/+source/lxpanel/0.6.2-0ubuntu2
<Unit193> bluesabre: Mhmm, so I saw, good news.
<knome> bluesabre, got my comments about mugshot translations?
<bluesabre> knome: yes, that missing space/newline is a typo... but not quite severe (log message)
<knome> what about the others?
<bluesabre> Unit193: I'm at a loss... new lxpanel, still didn't quite work: http://paste.ubuntu.com/8198957/
<bluesabre> knome: I suppose that's valid, but the login screen photo is not quite a contact detail
<bluesabre> and yes to the other notes as well
<bluesabre> lots of typos there
<bluesabre> D:
<knome> so, when you going to fix those? :P
<bluesabre> some time today
<bluesabre> and then I'll do the release tomorrow night
<knome> :)
<bluesabre> busy around the home today
<knome> heh
<pleia2> there, team report for august done
<elfy> I think I did CC one pleia2 
<elfy> while I remember :)
<pleia2> :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: checking for lxpanel >= 0.5.6... 0.6.2
<bluesabre> Unit193: ...?
<bluesabre> now I'm really confused
 * bluesabre clears away build files
<Unit193> bluesabre: You need libmenu-cache-dev, mate.
<bluesabre> oh
 * bluesabre wasn't aware
<Unit193> lxpanel-dev depends on it, yeah.
<bluesabre> >.<
<bluesabre> ok, I'll try that now
<Unit193> It's a weird area, -dev depends on it but since it's in the 'lxpanel' package there is no dep. 0.7.0 doesn't even add one.
<bluesabre> yay, it built
<bluesabre> Unit193: /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/lxpanel/plugins/ sound right?
<bluesabre> Unit193: comments/suggestions: http://paste.ubuntu.com/8200064/
<bluesabre> besides updated d/changelog more
<bluesabre> *updating
<Unit193> lxpanel installs to multiarch dirs too, so yeah.  Will that dep cause issues on upgrading, by pulling in xfce4-panel if 0.7.0 is installed/updated before?  Otherwise looks fine.
<Unit193> Also, you override lxpanel dep, does it actually add one?
<bluesabre> Unit193: dunno, I thought that it might, suppose I shouldn't assume :)
<bluesabre> not sure about the upgrade issues
<Unit193> Uploadin' yet?
<ochosi> bluesabre: lordy, appdata adds a huge translations overhead
<Unit193> For little gain. :P
<ochosi> well especially for xfce-related software
<ochosi> bluesabre: also, there's a space missing (at least) in this string: "Cannot display camera output.Ignoring play command"
<knome> ochosi, OOOOLD. :P
<ochosi> anyway, night everyone
<knome> nighty ochosi 
#xubuntu-devel 2015-08-24
<bluesabre> micahg: it certainly seems to be getting away from us
<micahg> I'll diff against vivid and trusty a bit later and see if anything new got pulled in
<bluesabre> cool
<micahg> adwaita-icon-theme-full is about 10MB
<micahg> gnome-themes-standard now pulls it in
<micahg> unfortunately, most of the new stuff seems to be related to libreoffice
<bluesabre> hm
<bluesabre> probably won't be able to improve on it this cycle, but maybe there will be some way to trim it further with 16.04
<bluesabre> gotta head to bed now, back tomorrow
<micahg> ok
<flocculant> slickymasterWork: tomorrow once there is a real url at iso.qa for B1 - could you reply to the dev mail I sent with the 64 and 32 bit urls - reply with the whole of my original - and then let pleia2 know :)
<flocculant> she'll social media it for us then :)
<slickymasterWork> will do, flocculant 
<flocculant> thanks :)
<slickymasterWork> just so we're on the same page flocculant, you're talking about this one, right? -> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2015-August/010864.html
<flocculant> yep :)
<slickymasterWork> oki doke
<flocculant> I'm off later this morning - not sure if I'm back wed or thurs yet
<ochosi> micahg, bluesabre: while i dont like us to be too oversized, as long as we get xubuntu-core ready it's not such a huge problem imo. ok if we fix it for the lts
#xubuntu-devel 2015-08-25
<micahg> ochosi: ok, I'll focus on xubuntu-core first
<Trial> Quick question... Hopefully
<Trial> When I wake my computer I can see what I was doing last then it goes to login in screen. Is this an Ubuntu thing or related to Xubuntu layer?
<holstein> what are you expecting to see?
<Trial> Immediate login screen
<holstein> you mean, you see the desktop, as it was when you locked it? and you think you should just immediately see the lockscreen? and not the desktop?
<Trial> Yep, I see the desktop and any windows I had open
<Trial> After 10-15 secs it goes to login screen
<holstein> i dont think its every happened for me that slowly.. but, i have found GPU drivers can effect that..
<Trial> Okay, cool I will check into that. I am currently running Xubuntu on a HP Stream 11. So, not a lot of support but working on it.
<Trial> I was working on a confidential document, and was startled what I seen when I opened it back up. I am going to have be more cautious I guess.
<holstein> not if its just always you that sees it when its opened ;)
<Trial> Well, true. It rarely leaves home, but in the event I do take in public... I don't know. Was just curious :D
<Trial> So, this a Xubuntu thing. I am not sure how much xubuntu is different from Ubuntu. Is it built on barebones?
<holstein> well, xubuntu is ubuntu.. with xfce as the desktop environment, instead of unity
<holstein> there are lots of different parts, and lots of exactly the same parts
<Trial> Ah, okay. Sorry for the delay.
<flexiondotorg> bluesabre, You are participating in 15.10 beta 1 correct?
<flexiondotorg> I'm helping with the release again and just confirming which flavours are taking part.
<flexiondotorg> ochosi, ^^^^^^^^
<flexiondotorg> knome, ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
<bluesabre> flexiondotorg: correct
<flexiondotorg> Thanks.
<slickymasterWork> flexiondotorg, is there any prevision for when the url for B1 will land at http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/ ?
<slickymasterWork> for both 64 and 32 bit
<flexiondotorg> slickymaster, Can you come and ask that in #ubuntu-release please?
<slickymasterWork> sure
<flexiondotorg> slickymaster, Thanks.
<flexiondotorg> slickymaster, bluesabre Can someone update the wiki please? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WilyWerewolf/Beta1
<slickymasterWork> on it, flexiondotorg 
<slickymasterWork> damn wiki
<flexiondotorg> slickymasterWork, Thanks :-)
<slickymasterWork> pleia2, knome, can you please mediatize https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2015-August/010867.html
<slickymasterWork> ochosi, bluesabre, I don't think we've set yet a B1 release page (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WilyWerewolf/Beta1/Xubuntu)
<slickymasterWork> knome ^^^
<bluesabre> slickymasterWork: if the others don't get to it before me, I can take a look this evening (or add to it as needed)
<slickymasterWork> great. thanks bluesabre :)
<ochosi> hey folks
<ochosi> sorry, i won't be able to take a look before tomorrow the earliest
<ochosi> just returned from moving to a new flat and am... tired. reallly really tired
<ochosi> will try to be back tomorrow
<knome> slickymasterWork, tweeted
<akxwi-dave> +slickymaster - has there been much done with 15.10 regards the look and feel of the DE/apps.. as its looking really slick and well rounded.
<knome> akxwi-dave, nothing special for 15.10 specifically - except some work on the LO icon theme (which is not comparable since this is the first release with LO) and the usual gtk theme updates for the newest gtk version
<akxwi-dave> :-)  still looks good though..
<slickymasterWork> thnaks knome 
<knome> np
<slickymasterWork> * thanks
<knome> akxwi-dave, sure, we've done a lot work in the past for an integrated looks - but nothing specific now
<slickymasterWork> did you saw my ping regarding the B1 release page knome?
<knome> i did
<slickymasterWork> great
<knome> slickymasterWork, i updated the calendar entry for the meeting - now it actually says 10am and not "whole day"
<slickymasterWork> ihadn't finished it tey knome :P
<knome> hah
<slickymasterWork> i was trying to find out if it was displaying it in my time zone or UTC, instead
<knome> heh
<knome> a good application tells you what
<knome> *that :P
<slickymasterWork> who choose Google calendar, anyway?
<knome> o/
<knome> what else?
<slickymasterWork> lmao
<knome> no really
<knome> is there an alternative that is seriously so easy to reach for everybody?
<slickymasterWork> not that I'm aware of
<knome> so yeah, what else would we have chosen?
<slickymasterWork> not a clue ;)
<knome> then why whine? :P
<slickymasterWork> just answering your previous question
<knome> :P
<knome> well, i use gcal with tb
<knome> that does tell you the TZ
<slickymasterWork> I figured it out in my google settings
<pleia2> slickymaster: thanks, G+ed and FBed
<knome> pleia2, what did you say about the flyer schedule again? :)
<pleia2> flyer schedule?
<knome> you ordered the flyers
<pleia2> yeah, they should be here when I get home on september 7th
<knome> ok, cool
 * knome is tired
<knome> another_name, welcome :)
<another_name> knome: thanks. Hope I can help with fixing the problem :)
<knome> so for those that didn't catch it, another_name has the grey screen on resuming from suspend problem and is apparently willing to help
<another_name> Yes. It only occurred when I had two screens attached, and unplugging the second monitor lead to the locking screen to show up properly again.
<another_name> I haven't tried to suspend with two screens attached though.
<another_name> I'll give that a try
<another_name> Suspending leads to the same problem. Mouse moments show the gray screen where as left clicking brought back the lock screen and allowed me to login
<another_name> I also just encountered another issue; closing my laptop lid (which is set to suspend the system) with two screens turns off my main screen and sets the second screen as primary and the system does not suspend.
<knome> bluesabre, ochosi ^
<ochosi> another_name: what version of xubuntu and more specifically lightdm-gtk-greeter are you using?
<another_name> ochosi: xubuntu 15.04, lightdm-gtk-greeter 2.0.0
<ochosi> so the system really locks up?
<ochosi> or is it "just a grey screen" and you click and the greeter "wakes up"?
<another_name> ochosi: the screen goes black initially, moving the mouse or hitting keys 'wakes' the screen up to gray. After clicking on the gray screen it blinks to the lock screen
<ochosi> that sounds like a known issue that has been fixed already
<ochosi> black initially is expected, that's just the screensaver
<another_name> ochosi: agreed
<ochosi> you'll need 2.0.1
<ochosi> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm-gtk-greeter/+bug/1448761
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1448761 in lightdm-gtk-greeter (Ubuntu) "gray screen shown when external monitor connected on resume from suspend" [Medium,Confirmed]
<knome> ochosi, do we have quick instructions on how to test that?
<knome> also, hey ochosi :)
<ochosi> well, use a PPA to get 2.0.1 would be the most straight forward i guess
<another_name> oaky
<ochosi> https://launchpad.net/~lightdm-gtk-greeter-team/+archive/ubuntu/daily
<ochosi> e.g. this one ^
<knome> mhm
<ochosi> hey knome :)
<another_name> ochosi: yep works perfectly.
<another_name> any ideas on the other problem (closing laptop lid to suspend).
<another_name> ochosi: thanks for your help :)
<ochosi> another_name: no problem
<ochosi> that other issue you're describing is intended behavior of xfce4-power-manager
<ochosi> so you can keep on using your computer if it is docked
<ochosi> i'm not sure off the top of my head whether that was configurable or not
<another_name> Even if i have it set to suspend when the lid is closed?
<ochosi> i think so, yes
<ochosi> multi-monitor is a separate scenario
<ochosi> i haven't touched that part of the code, but i remember seeing it at some point and wondering whether that wouldn't be an issue for some
<another_name> Is there a way to configure multi-monitor settings for locking? I can understand the use-case of docking (done it before actually) but I'd also be interested in configuring it. But if that's the intended behavior it's perfectly fine. 
<another_name> ochosi: Thanks again for your help.
<melodie> hi!
<melodie> I got news for the Xubuntu teams
<ochosi> another_name: yeah, no worries. sorry i don't think it's configurable atm
<ochosi> melodie: don't keep us waiting then :)
<melodie> hi ochosi here:
<melodie>  I had to replace a Windows 7 home edition on a HP large laptop, which has 8 cores proc, 8 GB ram, a ivybridge Intel 3D/Nvidia GPU :
<melodie> and I have the pleasure to announce you there has been no bug at all! \o/
<melodie>  I used a Xubuntu 14.04.3 and installed all additional packages for iphone as the guy has a iphone 5 and that went well too. success!
<melodie> I used the oem option
<ochosi> good to hear :)
<ochosi> another_name: this would be the code piece i had in mind: http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-power-manager/tree/src/xfpm-manager.c#n436
<melodie> while I'm here I'll express a wish, that Thunar gets a menu "Display > Dual pane" feature. I installed pcmanfm additionally to make it available
<ochosi> another_name: actually it looks as though suspend should still work when closing the lid with >1 monitor
<melodie> else than that, the guy who I installed for was really amazed
<another_name> ochosi: I'm not sure what xfpm_is_multihead_connected is a flag for multiple monitors are connected.
<knome> melodie, i don't think that's going to happen; if you want that feature, use pcmanfm (as you do)
<melodie> XD
<melodie> hi knome 
<ochosi> another_name: ehm, what else would it be?
<melodie> before pcmanfm had that feature, I used to install some k package 
<another_name> ochosi: no idea not familiar with code.
<melodie> for the same purpose
<another_name> ochosi: no idea not familiar with code base
<ochosi> another_name: http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-power-manager/tree/common/xfpm-common.c#n146
<ochosi> bbl
<knome> bbl as well
<another_name> ochosi: I see what you mean.
<peaches> hello
<another_name> hello
<peaches> I subscribe to the mailing list and wanted to ask if there was a repository I can read about the willy beta 1 testing.
<knome> peaches, the mailing list has all the information and news about the testing
<knome> peaches, the reporting and things related to that is all in the ISO tracker
<peaches> I see the mile stonebuilds page
<knome> peaches, and if you have any questions, you can ask here or on the mailing list
<peaches> is there any other documentation available without having to download the .iso?
<knome> i don't understand the question; to test the beta 1 milestone, you will need to download the ISO
<peaches> my apologies, i'm not familiar testing xubuntu specific technology or developing with linux based developing environments. 
<knome> no problem
<pleia2> peaches: when you click on a test case it'll give you instructions for what you need to do
<pleia2> peaches: so if you're testing the 64-bit iso, you end up on the testcases page, here: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/345/builds/100663/testcases
<pleia2> peaches: then you click through them to see which one you want to do
<peaches> just to ask because I'm not sure; is this project wily the irc bot for xubuntu?
<peaches> i don't see much documentation on the email or site
<knome> what irc bot?
<peaches> is Wily Beta 1 a version of xubuntu? sorry to think it was a bot.
<knome> "wily" is the codename for the forthcoming 15.10 release
<knome> wily beta 1 is a work-in-progress version of 15.10
<peaches> I understand. Thanks for clarifying my mix-up. 
<knome> no problem
<peaches> I really enjoying using 15.04 on my VM virtual box, it's stable. What kind of benefits would I find to use 15.10?
<peaches> right now would it be find bugs?
<knome> yes, we are asking people to help us test the beta version to find bugs
<knome> so if you are looking for the benefits, then you shouldn't install now
<peaches> can some bugs become features or do you have strict adherence to how Wily Beta 1 should work?
<knome> the ISO testing we are calling for now should follow a specific testcase
<knome> for example, http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/345/builds/100663/testcases/1300/results for an entire disk install with the 64bit ISO
<pleia2> if you find something while testing and aren't sure if it's a bug or a feature, you can just ask here :)
<knome> but in addition to that, we are constantly encouraging people to do so called "exploratory testing" - to simply run the new release and file any bugs they might find - especially those that are related to changes made since the previous version
<knome> but right now we need the ISO tests
<peaches> what kind of version control do you use for this project?
<knome> ummmh... i don't think that question really applies
<peaches> may i ask why?
<knome> separate applications, libraries etc have different version control systems
<pleia2> same as the rest of ubuntu, bazaar (bzr), but a distribution is much more than just the work we do, so our upstreams in debian (lots of our work is done in debian), libreoffice, mozilla, etc use all kinds of things
<knome> xubuntu as an entity itself is not exactly version controlled
<knome> (eg. there is no "diff" for any two given ISOs)
<peaches> if I could find more documentation first on the standards this build is set on I would be effect at finding bugs.
<knome> it's a collection of loads of individual packages and changes
<peaches> where to start?
<knome> as i said, for the ISO testing, we have predefined testcases
<knome> please look at http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/345/builds/100663/testcases/1300/results
<knome> in the "testcase" section you will see the exact procedure you need to take to run this test
<peaches> i appreciate the link, thanks knome 
<knome> well, that's the second time i paste that
<knome> so maybe you also need to start paying attention
<slickymaster> thanks pleia2 
<knome> wb slimy
<slickymaster> just got home :P
#xubuntu-devel 2015-08-26
<another_name> knome: I'm having another issue where I connect a screen and it mis-identifies the available resolution of the screen and when I select the reduced resolution the screen never shows up.
<another_name> i should also note this is a different display that I was using before
<jjfrv8> bluesabre, ochosi, I noticed that on an install of the 32-bit beta, the LO icons are set to Human. 64-bit install is set to Elementary and both 32 and 64 Live versions are Elementary.
<jjfrv8> Also - and this might not be under our control - when you launch the LO meta app from the Office menu, it has Draw, Impress and Base buttons, but they of course do nothing.
<bluesabre> jjfrv8: that's interesting (the icons)
<bluesabre> as for the meta app, not sure we can do anything there but see if it's been previously reported
<bluesabre> Unit193: you about?
<bluesabre> knome, ochosi, slickymaster, Unit193: does this look good for release notes?  Sorry if I happened to duplicate effort, but I had a chance to crank it out, so... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WilyWerewolf/ReleaseNotes/Beta2/Xubuntu
<Unit193> bluesabre: Hi.
<bluesabre> Unit193: heyooooo
<drc> bluesabre: saw xfce4-sensors-plugin 1.2.6  in New Major application versions...still need to install thru synaptic rather than USC?
<bluesabre> drc: dunno, it should be installable via USC, but I haven't tried personally
<bluesabre> I'd also expect that major applications list to be trimmed a bit
<drc> It hasn't for the past 2 or 4 cycles :(
<bluesabre> since most plugins are not particularly major (or really even noteworthy)
<bluesabre> well thats no fun
<drc> The funy thing is, looking in USC on the LiveUSB finds it, but not on install :)
<bluesabre> I can see it in vivid
<drc> It's an old bug :(
<bluesabre> http://i.imgur.com/n0g48Cl.png
<drc> yeah, iirc correctly, once you install from universe (?), it works fine...let me find the bug
<bluesabre> alrighty
<drc> I've asked about this almost every cycle for a while, so everyone's probably tired of reading about it.
<drc> 782057
<Unit193> bluesabre: Did you need something?
<drc> bug 782057
<ubottu> bug 782057 in software-center (Ubuntu) "Sofware center fails to automatically enable universe repository" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/782057
<bluesabre> Unit193: was just wondering if work was already started on release notes and I had just missed it
<Unit193> drc: FWIW, we don't touch/manage/control USC.  You can try to annoy -desktop people.
<bluesabre> you're generally more away of ongoing work :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Aha, I'm not a release team.
<bluesabre> right
<bluesabre> I'll assume not then
<bluesabre> so....
<bluesabre> ochosi: release notes linked above, feel free to make any changes
<drc> Unit193: You have to be kidding.  A High/Confirmed/Unassigned bug from 2011 that hasn't been fixed yet?  Fat chance :)
<bluesabre> oh, named it the wrong number
<drc> Time to quit.  Getting riled (again)
<bluesabre> there we go, linked on here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WilyWerewolf/Beta1
<bluesabre> ochosi, knome, slickymaster: release notes here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WilyWerewolf/Beta1/Xubuntu -- feel free to make any changes as needed
<bluesabre> off to bed, night all
<Unit193> G'night.
<flexiondotorg> Morning.
<flexiondotorg> Just wanted to check how the Beta 1 testing is going.
<bluesabre> slow and steady... maybe?
<bluesabre> I haven't had a chance to check it out yet, and a few of us have been in and out
<bluesabre> it looks like we've got 8/10 mandatory tests done
<bluesabre> I'll pull down my xp to do auto-resize
<bluesabre> *xp vm
<newform8|SM-G386> anyone know what the default password for su is in xubuntu? Google searching couldn't find it for me and many say Ubuntu doesn't give root 
<Unit193> !noroot
<ubottu> We do not support setting a root password. You're free to do it on your own machine, but please don't offer instructions on how to set a root password or ask for help with setting it. See !root and !wfm for more information.
<Unit193> !sudo
<ubottu> sudo is a command to run command-line programs with superuser privileges ("root") (also see !cli). Look at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RootSudo for more information. For graphical applications see !pkexec (for older releases: !gksu and !kdesudo). If you're unable to execute commands with sudo see: http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/fixsudo
<newform8|SM-G386> ah got it, yeah I guess I don't need it. thanks for the sudo command info, I've been using that. I just thought it was strange that they Ubuntu wouldn't give one and wondered if xubuntu was different about that.. 
<newform8|SM-G386> I won't ask or mention again 
<newform8|SM-G386> thanks 
<ochosi> bluesabre: those look good to me! and thanks for working on that, i likely wouldn't have found the time
<ochosi> bluesabre: we could mention that the gimp was dropped in favor of LO
<knome> wait, what?
<knome> does that really make sense?
<knome> LO isn't a replacement for GIMP
<ochosi> well
<knome> i wouldn't say so really
<ochosi> i wouldn't formulate it verbatim like that
<ochosi> but to some extent, gimp was dropped because of LO
<knome> gimp was dropped because the team democratically decided we don't want to ship it any more
<knome> i wouldn't say so either
<knome> i would have voted for dropping gimp even if LO wasn't going to be included
<knome> ultimately, making sure there is no room for interpretation like that is the cleanest and best approach IMO
<ochosi> sure sure
<ochosi> right now we don't even mention gimp, so no worries
<knome> whether the ISO size was a motivation to vote this or that, it shouldn't be specifically mentioned
<knome> for interested parties: http://open.knome.fi/2015/08/26/compact-style-jquery-api-documentation/
<ochosi> slickymasterWork: sorry, won't be able to make the next meeting, 1st day on new job...
 * knome slaps ochosi 
<knome> excuses!
<ochosi> yeah i know... lame!
<knome> oh, your job is to develop lame, the mp3 encoder? :P
<ochosi> knome: oh wow, that one was lame even by your standards! :)
<knome> yeah,
 * knome playbacks an out-of-tempo-and-slow rimshot
<knome> of course, the audio file is encoded by lame
<knome> ba-dummm-tsiiiihhh
<slickymasterWork> np ochosi, I'm sure you'll keep up with the bbacklog, afterwards
<knome> big brother acklog
<knome> ok.
<knome> ok, something that might be of more interest to people here: http://open.knome.fi/2015/08/26/series-minor-improvements-ubuntu-websites/
<newform8|debian> why is it so hard to choose between debian+xfce and xubuntu  
<ochosi> no idea, feels like an obvious choice
<ochosi> especially when asking here
<knome> newform8|debian, i don't know, but if you want to chat generally, we do have #xubuntu-offtopic for that purpose
<newform8|debian> hehe i'll keep my first world problems to myself. thanks for the room recommendation though, i didn't know it was a place
<another_name> ochosi: if i
<another_name> ochosi: How can I get the debugging info for xfpm-manager?
<ochosi> another_name: run "xfce4-power-manager -q && xfce4-power-manager --debug"
<ochosi> it highly depends on what you want to debug whether the output will be helpful
<another_name> okay, I'm trying to see why closing the lid with a second monitor attached switches the display to primary on the second monitor.
<ochosi> right
<drc> No daily for 26 Aug, by design?
<drc> I see Ubuntu has a daily but kubuntu does not, so yeah, I'm guessing "by design".
<azzenovic>  hi I am a long time xubuntu user and I am really fascinated by the xfce tweaks . I was wondering if i can package the xubuntu desktop for debian . I will remove the xubuntu brand of course 
<knome> azzenovic, hello here as well
<knome> azzenovic, which modifications are you talking exactly?
<knome> for example, the greybird theme is available for debian already
<azzenovic> I know but mugshot is not in the xfce control center, the same for the theme configuration . the indicator plugin is kinda messy on debian + the lightdm config is a bit different
<knome> both mugshot and gtk-theme-config are available for debian
<knome> whether they show up in the settings manager is up to their respective desktop files
<knome> you should talk with the debian xfce maintainers about that, if they agree they should be included, then with the respective debian package maintainer about tweaking the packages
<knome> aiui, there are differences in the indicator plugin in debian and ubuntu that are not related to theming or xubuntu config
<knome> either bluesabre or ochosi can tell you more about that, but i'm not sure if the debian side is willing to land certain changes from ubuntu
<knome> about lightdm config - what differences are you actually referring to?
<azzenovic> I don't think debian policy approves coz debian ships always with the default DE config that's why I am more interested to create a debian spin with the xubuntu look and feel 
<knome> right...
<knome> personally, i think that's a waste of time and effort - why not point users towards xubuntu?
<knome> or alternatively, point users to certain configuration options they can change to make their debian look more like xubuntu
<knome> finally, it isn't a simple task - the xubuntu team has put a lot of effort to make everything look and work seamlessly and integrated
<azzenovic> the thing is I don't like where ubuntu is heading.. snappy etc otherwise I am really fond of xubuntu and I have been using it for more than years and I am from my xubuntu desktop now 
<knome> snappy doesn't affect xubuntu at all
<azzenovic> I think it will shortly coz ubuntu is considering to include ubuntu 16.04 and since xubunu is based on it I think it will be affected right ?
<knome> no, there will be .deb packaging in the future as well
<azzenovic> does that mean no snappy for xubuntu even if ubuntu includes it on the desktop ?
<knome> yes.
<azzenovic> oh great problem solved then :D I am a happy xubuntu user thx knome 
<knome> no problem.
<knome> if you have similar doubts in the future, or see somebody else having such, please come (or point them) here so we can clear things out
<azzenovic> sure I wanna get involved with the xubuntu community since I have a bit of free time starting this year
<knome> great, and thanks for the interest
<knome> this is the perfect channel for that
<knome> subscribing the development mailing list at https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel is a good idea as well
<azzenovic> thx :) I wanna run daily builds of xubuntu since I want to dicover the latest features and help with testing and filling bugs 
<knome> great! are you familiar with our testing trackers yet
<azzenovic> not really but I am flexible (I am a software developer) 
<knome> you can read the basics (and more) at http://xubuntu.org/contribute/qa/
<knome> flocculant (the irc nick, not around right now) is our QA lead
<knome> and others are able to answer questions too
<azzenovic> sure I will contact them as soon as i finish the full documentation 
<ochosi> knome: btw, i don't think i will have time to finalise the greybird-a11y workitem. in case you wanna pick it up, i can tell you what's left to ship it
<ochosi> or at least i can tell you what i had in mind
<knome> probably not realistic for me neither
<knome> that said,
<knome> please document it in a whiteboard, or somewhere where it's arhived
<knome> +c
<knome> ...
<ochosi> alright, will do
<knome> thanks
<knome> (it can be a pad too and i can comment today)
<knome> http://tracker.xubuntu.org/#tab-checklist
<knome> this is obviously a PoC, but it WORKS
<ochosi> checklist?
<knome> well, look at my work items
<knome> and figure out...
<knome> and feel free to suggest a better name
<knome> also, suggestions on the output formatting welcome
<ochosi> so wait, a timeline?
 * ochosi is distracted by the tv
 * knome slaps ochosi
<knome> yeah, kind of
<knome> or, you could call it that
<knome> so let's do that then.
<ochosi> :]
<knome> so... ideas about the formatting?
<ochosi> grouping by date maybe
<ochosi> only mention each date once i mean
<knome> i was thinking potentially week/month
<ochosi> right
<knome> but week is bleh
<ochosi> that's fine too
<knome> because it's not obvious from the dates
<ochosi> just atm it's all on the same day :)
<knome> of course.
<knome> well, not really
<knome> my work items are today, others are yesterday
<knome> (for testing purposes)
<knome> i'll likely add an "Earlier" category
<knome> basically for this cycle
<ochosi> yup makes sense
<knome> i guess we don't need a table?
<knome> just some kind of list
<knome> brb
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> list should be fine
<knome> ochosi, hooray
<knome> lookie lookie
<ochosi> nnnnice
<knome> that wasn't so hard
<knome> only one WEEEIRDO mysql query
<knome> or do you use the "INSERT INTO ... ON DUPLICATE KEY UPDATE ... key = CASE WHEN ... THEN ... ELSE ... END" syntax often?
<knome> now there's one last thing to do
<knome> some db hacking :F
<knome> great, that went smoothly as expected
<knome> currently showing items per day, let's evaluate that later
<ochosi> yeah that sounds like my usual query :>
<knome> yep.
<knome> i knew i should have asked you for tips on building that!
<knome> though it's cool that doing that avoided me from a lot of php code
<knome> do we want to link to the blueprint in the timeline?
<knome> eg. "Work item description in w-specification finished by Somebody"
<knome> (refresh now to see how i'm showing the assignee now, would be sameish)
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> i'd say so
<knome> ok
<knome> i'll add that
<ochosi> also, it's okayish to link to LP on the assignee, but i actually preferred that per-assignee page you had before
<ochosi> could bury the LP profile link there
<knome> aha
<knome> meh
<knome> yeah, i've been thinking all this link stuff
<ochosi> dunno i just don't like the LP profile pages
<ochosi> not very inviting to look at
<knome> the reason why the names are links to begin with is that it brings some required pace to the page (being different color and all)
<knome> i don't expect them to be super useful...
<ochosi> right
<knome> and i don't know if it's a good idea to link to the assignee page either
<knome> that isn't a logical target
<ochosi> why not?
<knome> "this was done by pasi"
<ochosi> it's within the dev site, showing the contextual info for that assignee
<knome> then clicking pasi leads you to things he didn't do yet
<knome> woot
<knome> also pages like http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-w/u/knome.html are waste of time :P
<knome> maybe i'm weird, but i don't mind the LP pages
<knome> sure, it could be a bit less cluttered, but if the description is good, then it's all okay
<knome> it's a lot of interesting things to look at
<knome> (yes, i said i might be weird)
<lderan> (indeed you might be)
<knome> maybe you hate them so much because your description is so shitty!
 * knome hides
<ochosi> :)
<knome> we do use LP for dealing with work items anyway
<ochosi> nah, it's just a lot of things that are hard to grasp at first sight
<knome> it would be weird if we tried to avoid linking there otherwise
<knome> sure
<ochosi> tiny logos for team membership list etc etc
<knome> but it does really give you the contact information for the person
<ochosi> and yeah as you said, terribly cluttered
<ochosi> yes, but in a very cluttered way
<knome> not as bad as myspace
<knome> i win
<ochosi> lol
<lderan> very few sites are myspace level bad
<knome> yep
<knome> nonetheles...
<knome> +s
<knome> ochosi, note that when logged in, your own profile page on LP is VERY cluttered with all the edit links
<knome> it's much better when you look at somebody elses page
<ochosi> i only see lots of tiny font and tiny ugly icons
<knome> tiny delicious icons
<knome> yummy
<ochosi> you mean "yuck"
<knome> heeey, don't put words in my mouth
<knome> or much else either, please.
 * Unit193 puts some rum there.
<knome> that's yummy
 * lderan adds a scone
<knome> ugh
<lderan> now, before i get destracted by knomes disdain for scones. Any of the items that are unassigned on the tracker I can start looking into?
<knome> lderan, any of them please :)
<lderan> distracted*, would help if I could spell correctly
<knome> ochosi, did you look at the WIP wallpaper on a laptop monitor yet?
<ochosi> knome: nope, i think you gotta reshare it with me
<knome> bleh
<Unit193> lderan: Or any marked for me. :P
<lderan> :P
<knome> now this is cluttered http://tracker.xubuntu.org/#tab-timeline
<lderan> doesn't look bad to me
<knome> lderan, you sure you have the latest version? :)
<lderan> :P
<knome> it's slightly better when the spec info is last
<knome> and when it's slightly more opaque
<ochosi> lderan: in terms of open workitems...
<ochosi> just check the WIP ones and see which ones look like a match
<lderan> sure :)
<ochosi> looking into the parole bug would be good, not sure if you wanna take that on though
<lderan> shall take a look
<ochosi> lderan: feel free to come up with your own workitem though if you can't find a fit ;) (note that we're past FF though)
<knome> one FF-independent thing would be to hack a better xml-rpc method for me :P
<lderan> (awww then an xubuntu powered deathstar is out of the queestion) 
<knome> lderan, maybe for 16.04
<knome> :P
<lderan> oo xml-rpc
<knome> i can tell you more if the word "drupal" doesn't bring (too much) puke to your mouth
<lderan> have played with drupal before
<knome> ok, so basically:
<lderan> as long as it is now magento then im good to go
<lderan> not*
<knome> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-qa-website-devel/ubuntu-qa-website/drupal7-rewrite/view/head:/modules/qatracker/qatracker.xmlrpc.php
<knome> these are the methods for the xml-rpc interface
<knome> the actual functions to pull data from the database are at http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-qa-website-devel/ubuntu-qa-website/drupal7-rewrite/files/head:/modules/qatracker/xmlrpc/
<knome> these are all kind of handy
<knome> but ultimately, to be able to pull out the data we want from the tracker is a lot of requests
<knome> a query like "give me all the active builds for the product X in series Y" would be useful, for example
<lderan> can see how that would be handy
<knome> currently it's several queries
<knome> so... yeah, hacking something like that would be great
<lderan> will have a look at that as well :)
<knome> if you are willing to hack on the interface, let's try to sit down with flocculant some day
<knome> to actually figure out what he wants to see in the status tracker
<knome> that should help us lay out the exact methods we'd like to have
<knome> tbh, it doesn't look too hard
<knome> eg. take http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-qa-website-devel/ubuntu-qa-website/drupal7-rewrite/view/head:/modules/qatracker/xmlrpc/qatracker.xmlrpc.testcases.php
<knome> it's settings a bunch of db query parameters
<knome> then getting the results from the db, and putting them in an array and return them
<knome> copy-paste level stuff
<lderan> yeah
<knome> same with linking that stuff to a new method
<knome> oh yeah, and one more thing
<knome> currently you can only give the statuses as integers
<knome> it would be nice to be able to give them in text
<lderan> should be fairly simple to allow that
<knome> yep
<knome> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-qa-website-devel/ubuntu-qa-website/drupal7-rewrite/view/head:/modules/qatracker/qatracker.module
<knome> that's where the arrays for the links are
<lderan> thank you kindly
<knome> np
<bluesabre> lol
<bluesabre> I agree with !magento
<knome> bluesabre, wut?
<knome> heh
<azzenovic> hello I was wondering how can access the xubuntu qa bug tracker 
<knome> sounds like you are mixing two things
<knome> do you want the bug tracker or the tracker for QA reports?
#xubuntu-devel 2015-08-27
<flexiondotorg> How goes the Xubuntu testing?
<knome> doesn't look too bad
<flexiondotorg> knome, Great. Thanks for letting me know.
<knome> ftr, you could have checked that from the ISO tracker yourself :P
<Unit193> So about the same as this morning. :D
<knome> Unit193, hello darling.
<azzenovic> I want to know abt how to access both please 
<knome> azzenovic, you'll need a launchpad account
<Unit193> https://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/ lists Xubuntu, and links to bugs on there.
<knome> azzenovic, http://open.knome.fi/2014/02/23/logging-in-with-ubuntu-one/ for the detailed information on obtaining one
<azzenovic> knome, I already have one what shall i do next ?
<knome> you can now login to the ISO tracker in the url Unit193 pasted
<Unit193> (Typed)
<knome> pastyped
<knome> typasted
<azzenovic> done
<knome> do you need further information?
<azzenovic> yeah indeed what's the next step ps I am currently installing willy iso 
<knome> which ISO is that? beta1? daily?
<azzenovic> the one in the daily-live directoy 
<knome> ok... well we're currently testing the beta1 release, so that's a bit unideal.
<Unit193> zsync.
<azzenovic> no prob I will go with beta
<knome> ok, then select "Wily Beta 1" from the milestone list
<knome> from that page, select "Xubuntu Desktop your_architecture"
<knome> and from THAT page, select the test you are willing to run
<knome> eg. for amd64 and entire disk install, you end up at http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/340/builds/100663/testcases/1300/results
<knome> that page has all the information on what steps you need to take to run through the test
<knome> (yes, it's basically a regular install, but it's good to run with that page open the first few times)
<knome> at the end of the page, you have a form to add a test result - do that when you are ready with the installation
<azzenovic> ok thx :)
<knome> i'm off to bed
<knome> nihty
<knome> +g
<knome> flocculant, also, this is of course the right channel :P
<knome> flocculant, another thing: let's talk with lderan about what data we want to pull from the QA trackers
<knome> flocculant, he said he'd be willing to hack a bit on the xml-rpc interface so it would be a bit easier to get the data we need
<flocculant> ok
<knome> and if you didn't notice - there's now a timeline in the tracker
<flocculant> I did ;)
<knome> goodie
<flocculant> is it going to stay as it is though? 
<flocculant> I did read you and ochosi - but didn't get any finished thoughts 
<knome> i don't know yet
<flocculant> eg day or week or month 
<knome> improvement ideas welcome :)
<flocculant> :)
<knome> it's hard to say whether day/week is better in the long run
<knome> since the data isn't naturally scattered now
<flocculant> I think that day would be a mightnare
<knome> yep, probably
<knome> it's easy enough to change later
<flocculant> and week would (in a cycle) be a possible 26 sections
<flocculant> how about biweekly
<knome> i don't know
<knome> how works within a biweekly schedule
<Unit193> knome: Source in git, btw?
<knome> Unit193, nah, i'll push it in cvs
<Unit193> Ah, even better.
<knome> ^ *who
<knome> i mean, it doesn't have a natural rhythm for me
<knome> one thing i considered was using week numbers relative to the cycle
<flocculant> knome: people that think that 26 is too many, 6 is too few and 190 is silly
<knome> so week 1 for the first week of cycle - whether that was in april or october
<flocculant> week numbers relative is probably a useful starting point
<flocculant> and if we are honest about it - week 1 - 8 or so would be pretty empty :D
<knome> mhm
<knome> then their headers wouldn't appear
<knome> same with date
<knome> +s
<knome> only ones that have content are listed
<flocculant> I don't see that as a problem
<knome> no, quite the opposite
<knome> i was just meaning that it would make the list not 26 sections :)
<knome> but say, 18
<flocculant> yep 
<knome> which is IMO quite ok
<knome> i'm fine with 30ish too
<flocculant> I guess as long as it lists from current to eons ago I guess it's not really an issue anyway
<knome> we currently have 81 items, so that split in 26 would mean >3 per week
<knome> well, ultimately it will still be a long list
<flocculant> of course
<flocculant> a list with 100 headers with one line each would be a pain to parse
<knome> sure
<knome> ok, another Q
<flocculant> so week at minimum imo
<knome> do you see a specific use case for this apart from the obvious "let's see how we've done" ?
<flocculant> let me ponder that in the kitchen ... 
<knome> sure
<flocculant> to be blunt - no I don't
<knome> ok, so in that case - does it matter if the output is split into weeks?
<knome> one thing i can think of is the monthly team reports
<flocculant> I wouldn't be that interested in knowing that foo was done *then* all I'd really be interested in knowing is that it was
<knome> but then we didn't do those since april
<knome> and the whole system is falling apart - not many teams are doing them altogether
<flocculant> right
<knome> and finally,
<knome> if need be, i can simply add a dropdown for the different choices...
<knome> but let's not overcomplicate it if people are happy with one view :)
<flocculant> yea
<flocculant> one point here
<knome> sure
<flocculant> *if* the thing is how many rather than what - could the data not be added to the burndown?
<flocculant> then you could see at a glance all graphy things in one place
<knome> well, it is in the burndown essentially...
<knome> just look how many notches the green bar came down
<knome> or use the tooltips to figure that out
<flocculant> tooltips ... 
<knome> hover over the bars
<flocculant> just found those :D
<knome> \o/
<flocculant> from a personal pov - the timeline isn't likely to add much for mine, I'd be more likely to see what others were doing
<knome> but the timeline is useful anyway then, right?
<flocculant> for that - yes 
<knome> one thing that i'm thinking is
<flocculant> if it was no use to me - I would say so :)
<knome> we don't currently list the work items sorted by status anywhere
<knome> i don't know if that's a problem
<knome> likely not
<knome> a new contributor likely knows which area they want to work in
<flocculant> yea
<knome> eg. either artwork or QA
<knome> but
<flocculant> I guess XPL *might* find that useful 
<knome> maybe the timeline could have the current WIP work items at the top of the list
<knome> "these are up for completion next"
<knome> simon told me he was happy with the overview
<knome> basically, the overview and the details are very close to each other
<knome> in a way
<knome> it's just a different sort order
<flocculant> knome: perhaps timeline could have WIP/TODO/ done by week (or whatever chunks)
<knome> nah, that'd add complexity to the DB
<flocculant> ok :)
<knome> and "this was todo at week X" isn't useful IMO
<flocculant> oh - not what I meant
<knome> oh
<knome> right, i see what you mean
<flocculant> I mean - at the top - this stuff is being done, needs to be done - below the rest
<knome> but wouldn't that be beating the dead horse? :P
<knome> the details tab could handle that
<flocculant> ok - then I see no reason to include WIP either then
<knome> so in addition to being able to filter by assignee, enable filtering by specification or status
<knome> (see where i'm going? :P)
<flocculant> on detail tab? 
<knome> yep
<flocculant> so we could see ALL the todo stuff if we wanted to? 
<flocculant> that what you mean? 
<knome> yes
<knome> or all the artwork stuff
<knome> (like in the overview tab currently...)
<flocculant> mmm
<flocculant> not sure about that much detail
<flocculant> eg my todo or your todo
<flocculant> team todo I'd be more likely to read
<flocculant> or team WIP etc
<knome> well
<knome> those are easy enough to get to now
<flocculant> not team todo
<knome> i mean it's not hard to see what my WIP list is
<knome> no?
<knome> http://tracker.xubuntu.org/#tab-details/xubuntu-qa
<flocculant> ha - so we're describing the same thing from either end
<knome> or http://tracker.xubuntu.org/#tab-details/flocculant+teams
<flocculant> I mean - there's no way to find out Xubuntu todo or Xubuntu wip
<knome> i mean the latter url can be infinitely useful
<knome> ah, right
<knome> sure
<flocculant> that might be more useful
<knome> yep
<flocculant> bluesabre: ping
<flocculant> do a couple of hardware tests and I think we're looking pretty good 
<flocculant> biab
<ochosi> bluesabre: hey! just a quick status inquiry: xfpanel-switch is uploaded? how about the patch for xfce4-panel?
<knome> bluesabre, also if you didn't notice, i developed the timeline to lure you more into making progress to see the tracker changing!
<ochosi> :>
<knome> so, i finally figured out what i want to do with the overview tab
<knome> bumpy ride incoming
<ochosi> btw, still planning to integrate this in x.org right?
<knome> "in"?
<ochosi> well, in terms of making it look integrated there and not a separate page
<knome> well, as i said previously, i don't think the overall layouting stuff works for both
<knome> i'll probably look into making the headers more integrated looking at some point
<ochosi> i think having the header from x.org would be enough
<knome> but that requires changes in the website header too
<knome> yeah, something like that
<ochosi> you can always <iframe> it ;)
<knome> one thing that i *don't* want to get from there is the navigation menu
<knome> huh!
<knome> well, that isn't even the issue
<knome> i just don't think that i should squeeze this information to the content are in the website
<ochosi> you don't? why not?
<knome> *area
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> well the footer wouldn't be necessary
<knome> because i just don't want to ;)
<ochosi> heh
<ochosi> alllright, mr. web-lead ;)
<knome> i'll figure out something at some point
<flexiondotorg> ochosi, Do you think Xubuntu will be ready to mark the images ready soon?
<ochosi> flexiondotorg: hey! sorry, i was (and still am) fairly afk atm, better ask bluesabre (should be around in a bit) he'll know more i presume
<ochosi> also thanks for taking care of b1!
<flexiondotorg> bluesabre, ^^^^
<flexiondotorg> ochosi, No problem.
<flocculant> well that was a barrel of laughs ... 
<flocculant> usb failing to boot when created with anything except the gnome disks tool
<flocculant> bluesabre: given that we've seen some issues with uefi/partition creation/timezone - should we make note of those in release notes - probably good idea I would say 
<bluesabre> hey all
<flocculant> hi bluesabre :)
<bluesabre> flocculant: I agree about the release notes
<flocculant> enough to not mark ready though? 
<flocculant> not sure we should do that - these things aren't issues that *we* have control over 
<flocculant> I'll add notes to the wiki page
<bluesabre> flocculant: I think we can mark ready.  The issues are annoying but the installer does seem to sometimes work
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> ok - I'll do that then 
<bluesabre> sweet
<flocculant> I'll make a start on the x.org note too - then someone can fiddle and publish
<bluesabre> not sure what the issue is with ubiquity... these issues are fairly new, but they also affect me when doing vivid installs now too
<flocculant> bluesabre: thanks for keeping an eye on things for us and doing most of release notes
<bluesabre> flocculant: np
<bluesabre> I think I might have written everything that's currently there except what I copied from last release :D
<flocculant> ha ha 
<flocculant> ok - images marked ready now 
<bluesabre> yay!
<flexiondotorg> flocculant, Thanks.
<knome> thanks everybody, again
<flocculant> knome: link to x.org admin thing so I can get draft note started please :)
<bluesabre> ochosi: xfpanel-switch is uploaded, patched panel is not yet, and xfpanel-switch also not added to seed yet
<flocculant> bluesabre: ok updated wiki notes
<bluesabre> flocculant: I bet the last 5 minutes were waiting on login or saving
<bluesabre> flocculant: looks good
<flocculant> ha ha ha - yea ;)
<flexiondotorg> bluesabre, flocculant ochosi All flavours are now marked ready.
<bluesabre> flexiondotorg: great
<flexiondotorg> How are your release notes?
<flocculant> done
<bluesabre> good to go
<flocculant> that's 2 lies right on top of each other :D
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> teamwork
<flocculant> \o/
<flexiondotorg> bluesabre, lol
<flocculant> draft done - not sure we really need to be list bugs at x.org as well - so I didn't 
<bluesabre> flocculant: I'd agree with that
<bluesabre> I'd say that's pretty sufficient for b1 website post
<bluesabre> oh
<bluesabre> unless we want to link to the wiki page for more details and known issues
<knome> yes, link to wiki
<flocculant> I thought it is linked ... 
<bluesabre> I don't see it in the preview at least
<bluesabre> I see where it should be
<bluesabre> I'll add it
<flocculant> might actually liked it where I was warbling about bugs 
<bluesabre> http://xubuntu.org/?p=3430&preview=true
<bluesabre> I let go of the edit lock in case you want to tweak anything
<bluesabre> knome: maybe we could have just a little more contrast with the completed-by notes on http://tracker.xubuntu.org/#timeline ? 
<flocculant> mmm - that looks like the one I did 
<flocculant> anyway - happy :)
<bluesabre> flocculant: dunno, maybe you didn't save? :)
<knome> bluesabre, maybe
<flexiondotorg> bluesabre, Does Xubuntu ship Galculator?
<flocculant> bluesabre: save? :p
<knome> bluesabre, like that?
<knome> bluesabre, and yeah, completed is better, thanks
<bluesabre> flexiondotorg: we're currently shipping gnome-calculator
<flexiondotorg> OK, thanks.
<bluesabre> knome: much better, can actually read it now
<knome> who cares about reading :D
<bluesabre> >.>
<knome> and, humm
<knome> oh no
<knome> nvm :P
<knome> good good
<bluesabre> lol
<knome> i'm just confusing myself
<flocculant> we could be a team 
<knome> no, nothing is better than messing with yourself
<flocculant> ... 
<knome> you're not going to take that away from me!
<flocculant> ha ha 
<flocculant> slickymasterWork: didn't know you'd arrived - thanks for mailing the url to the list :)
<knome> dkessel, what's the latest update on the jenkins stuff?
<knome> lderan, i just passed a work item about the XML-RPC interface for you; you're welcome ;)
<knome> the more (assignees), the merrier
<flocculant> I'll gather some thoughts on what I would like for that 
<knome> great
<flocculant> as far as jenkins goes - pretty sure current state is : hosting physically somewhere, waiting on test/ubiquity fix 
<knome> ok
<flocculant> balloons was aiming at b2 I think 
<knome> aha
<flocculant> not sure why though 
<knome> :)
<bluesabre> cool, so maybe we'll get another ubiquity release this cycle then
<flocculant> bluesabre: aah - not quite talking about the same thing here - sorry
<bluesabre> ah, darn
<bluesabre> guess I'll go back to poking for that soon
<flocculant> this is the test failing at ubioquity - so not necessarily a fix at ubiquity, more likely to be a test fix
<bluesabre> gotcha
<flocculant> it'll be good to be able to get reports daily for image smoketest
<flocculant> though that wouldn't find things like icons showing on desktop ofc
<flocculant> knome lderan - http://pad.ubuntu.com/trackerpull
<flocculant> a start at least
<knome> flocculant, i think the from/to stuff should be in the tracker
<knome> flocculant, there's no way our status tracker can know the specific dates you want
<knome> well, that is, unless you feed it them - but then it is more like manual data mining, and that should be done in the tracker to avoid silly queries
<flocculant> then we just end up with a list that's going to be really long given that tracker has 7 entries a week 
<slickymasterWork> sure flocculant, np
<knome> flocculant, i'm not saying we can't filter the results we get
<knome> flocculant, i'm just saying that since we want to do repeated queries that always follow the same pattern, we can simply filter out that pattern ourself
<flocculant> what is this for ?
<knome> pulling data from the qa tracker to the status tracker
<flocculant> because what I'm looking for and what you're looking for are obviously different :)
<knome> i don't know how specific data we want to pull to the status tracker
<knome> probably not to the level of individual reports
<knome> see -
<knome> if we want to see which bugs affected, say, beta 1
<knome> we always wanted all beta 1 reports
<flocculant> if this is just for the tracker - then you probably want to talk to people who only want general info 
<knome> we *can* pull more specific info from the tracker too
<knome> but i don't want to make the QA tracker just another platform where we simply input the data and then process it elsewhere
<knome> i'm sure you agree - many things should work in the tracker itsefl
<flocculant> yea 
<knome> so from that perspective, i'm trying to figure out what information is useful and sane to pull out
<flocculant> I'm not sure our tracker is the right place for any of it tbh
<flocculant> I obviously got the wrong end of the stick 
<knome> i wouldn't mind some "totals"
<knome> like amount of tests
<knome> or mentioning testers
<flocculant> but over what period? 
<knome> per milestone
<flocculant> and tomorrow any data about b1 is pointless
<knome> of course, the idea would be to show the data in a form that isn't too overflowing
<knome> judging by that logic, isn't it useless to know how many items of a total of our items we have completed?
<knome> i understand there's a slight difference, but i don't mind showing historical data either
<knome> and for taht matter, we can show "active" milestones only
<flocculant> I just don't see that numbers from milestones add anything 
<flocculant> and generally the active one is daily 
<flocculant> so which figures are you going to want to see? 
<knome> it adds understanding about the scale of testing
<knome> and potentially motivates other people to help
<flocculant> today/yesterday/this week/last week/month/cycle 
<knome> pass/fail ratio per milestone
<knome> that's useul
<knome> +f
<knome> bugs found per milestone
<knome> critical bugs for milestone/cycle
<flocculant> I'm just not seeing the usefulness of this 
<ochosi> bluesabre: ok thanks, still planning to add it to the seed and upload the patch? (if so, a workitem might be a good idea so we know when it's done)
<knome> the usefulness of it is that since we are pulling a lot of progress related data to one place, we would have QA-related stuff too
<knome> currently the status tracker doesn't tell anything about how QA is doing
<flocculant> yes - but it's too general to be of use to QA
<flocculant> maybe to other parts of team
<knome> there is no way to check whether the testing is healthy, or if critical bugs are found in a new milestone
<knome> sure - as i said, i'm not trying to replace the tracker
<knome> and for comparison:
<knome> the work item "" Discuss, review and rewrite the technical guidelines under the "Seeds & Composition" chapter in the Strategy Document "" isn't very useful or tell a lot about anything - until you dig up things from other places
<flocculant> yea - I see that point
<knome> same with listing the bugs in the bugs blueprints - listing the titles alone is useless - the real data is in LP
<flocculant> as I said - better perhaps to talk to other people than me :)
<knome> i will then
<knome> but please follow the progress - so we aren't doing something very silly...
<flocculant> not because I don't care - but because I'd want more detail so I only look in one place :)
<knome> we'd of course do a lot of linkage so you'd have quickish access to various stuff
<flocculant> of course I'll follow progress :D
<knome> bookmarking the pad
<knome> bbl
<flocculant> cya later
<bluesabre> ochosi: thats the plan, feel free to add a workitem and assign me, gotta run
<ochosi> bluesabre: ok, will do!
<flocculant> hi ochosi 
<ochosi> bluesabre: done
<ochosi> hey flocculant 
<flocculant> I assume you know, but images all marked for release
<ochosi> yup, just read the backlog
<ochosi> good good, thanks for taking care of that
<flocculant> well 
<flocculant> I just let people get on with it :D
<ochosi> :)
<flocculant> bbl 
<flocculant> knome: published it
<flocculant> not on the front page though
<flocculant> knome pleia2 - if you could do the honours with twitter etc 
<flocculant> flocculant: but I'll remember the extra m for matte when I do this in the future :D
<flexiondotorg> flocculant ;-)
<akxwi-dave> just a quick one guys and gals.. while testing 15.10 beta 1 - starting mousepad from the whisker menu is fine..  starting from bash,  gives this message but still work.. (mousepad:2554): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: The property GtkSettings:gtk-menu-images is deprecated and shouldn't be used anymore. It will be removed in a future version. 
<akxwi-dave> is this expected?
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: you get those warnings with a host of different apps starting like that
<akxwi-dave> phew thats ok then.. :-)
<flocculant> yep - but thanks anyway :)
<blaze_> Parole crashes when you try to close by clicking on X,should i report this on launchpad?
<blaze_> *it
<pleia2> flocculant: done all the social medias
<xubuntu68w> Any know problems with Network Monitor plugin in 15.10B1?  Will not accept Network Device (eth0).  Works in 15.04 and all other versions and distros.
<xubuntu68w> "Xfce4-Netload-Plugin: Error in initializing: Interface was not found"
<flocculant> pleia2: thanks 
<flocculant> xubuntu68w: not seen anything myself, can't see any reports of it either
<flocculant> oh hang on - didn't read you properly - read network manager
<xubuntu68w> Not, NM works fine, just the plugin...just tried with wifi, same problem.
<flocculant> well - just added it to this install - not clean install - and it works 
<flocculant> let me see what updates I'm missing
<xubuntu68w> Had the same problem with B1 (live usb) and 25 Aug daily install.
<flocculant> definitely an issue in the vm's I did today
<xubuntu68w> so it's confirmed, it's not just me ?
<flocculant> seemingly 
<flocculant> though it's working fine in this install 
<xubuntu68w> Oh goody...it works, it does't work...going to make triage fun.
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> more annoyed with clementine being removed and not installable now :|
<xubuntu68w> Sorry my darling :)
<flocculant> xubuntu68w: can you report that - I'll confirm it 
<xubuntu68w> against what?
<xubuntu68w> that's always my ing what to report it aganst.ug repost, not knowproblem with b
 * xubuntu68w hates web-irc...can't type.
<flocculant> xubuntu68w: I would think that it's xfce4-netload-plugin
<xubuntu68w> ok, let me drop this live usb and get back to reality
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> working in vm now lol
<cuzor> I downloaded iso and used yumi to install the iso on usb-stick. When I xubuntu (without installing) it crashes hangs after the first and only message "acpi pcc probe failed"
<cuzor> ubuntu gives me 1 more line "starting version 219"
<cuzor> pc hangs. reset button doesn't work
<knome> cuzor, this isn't the support channel, try #xubuntu 
<cuzor> ow ok
<cuzor> found this channel on xubuntu site
<knome> yes, and the website says this is for development
<cuzor> sorry
<knome> no problem
<dkessel> knome: i don't know if anything new happened regarding the auto image tests. i have been forced offline a lot the last days, and if anything happens, it seems to happen outside the qa mailing list. last thing i knew was that balloons found someone to host the hardware and run the test infrastructure.
<dkessel> gotta go afk again, bb
<dkessel> oh, and there seems to be some backlog on news in #ubuntu-quality but no time to read now
<flocculant> pleia2: you able to edit fridge posts at all? 
<pleia2> flocculant: yep, have a fix for me?
<flocculant> flexiondotorg: I see now it's not just Xbuntu but also Xubuntu MATE
<flocculant> pleia2: yep - our bits of http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2015/08/27/wily-werewolf-beta-1-released/
<flocculant> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WilyWerewolf/Beta1/Xubuntu is link
<pleia2> flocculant: oh, I don't like editing those because it's copied from the mailing list announcement
<flocculant> meh
<pleia2> and the mailing list announcement is what goes into UWN and stuff :\
<flocculant> ok 
<pleia2> I can, it just doesn't make a huge difference
<flocculant> okey doke
<flocculant> dkessel: I've been keeping an eye on that stuff as well 
<ochosi> yeah, curious mistakes on that announcement
<pleia2> flocculant: updated and set up a redirect on the Xbuntu wiki page so it goes to the right one
<pleia2> oof, the cdimage link is wrong too
<pleia2> they need a Unit193 to do link checking before publishing!
<knome> :)
<Unit193> Hah!
<ochosi> +1
<knome> yes, let's appoint Unit193 the link liaison
<Unit193> If I get a ping, I do a linkcheck! :P
<pleia2> hehe
<flocculant> seems like all the cdimage links are wrong
<Unit193> That was a great announcement?
<pleia2> gosh, we just might have to link to the fridge post in UWN...
 * pleia2 fixes them up
<knome> heh
<drc> So, Xubuntu now has an official XLL (Xubuntu Link Looker) as well as an XPL?
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<pleia2> lol
<flocculant> is there any point in replying to the -release list mail with correct links? 
<flocculant> I don't suppose many people would look there
<knome> maybe a good reminder for the future to double-check stuff
<flocculant> indeed
<flocculant> poor old flexiondotorg 
<Unit193> drc: XPL, XTL, XCL, and who knows how many more. ;)
<flocculant> I'm just XXL
<pleia2> if you know who the person who wrote the announcement is, it would be worth telling him
<pleia2> I don't know his irc nick
<flocculant> pleia2: it's flexion ^^
<pleia2> ah :)
<pleia2> I thought you were just spouting out robot names
<pleia2> as you do
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<flocculant> night all
<bluesabre> evening all
<Unit193> A wild bluesabre!
 * knome fires an arrow towards the wild bluesabre 
 * bluesabre dies
<knome> well, it didn't hit you
<bluesabre> do not pass go
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> bbabl
<knome> i'm off to bed
<knome> nighty
<Unit193> bluesabre: What about xfdesktop 4.12.3?
#xubuntu-devel 2015-08-28
<bluesabre> back
<bluesabre> Unit193: suppose its time to start uploading things again
<bluesabre> Unit193: do you have a computer with nvidia?
<Unit193> Not new nvidia.
<bluesabre> even better
<bluesabre> http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfwm4/commit/?id=8a67212860898ef02fee79f64fc774bc14ed769c
<bluesabre> I wonder if that works for older nvidia
<bluesabre> (and newer_
<Unit193> xfce 10439
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10439 in General "Use GLX for compositing instead of Xrender" [Normal,Resolved: fixed] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10439
<bluesabre> I think you have an ati/amd box around, right?
<Unit193> fglrx netbook.
<bluesabre> that would be a fun test if you're interested
<bluesabre> I'm probably going to add that patch to one of my ppas and give it a go
<Unit193> 204 on nvidia, and the fglrx is a slightly older version as the new one was craptastic.
<drc> Interesting. 15.04 now has FF40 while 15.10(b1 atleast) has FF38.
<bluesabre> yeah, for some reason devel always lags behind on firefox releases
<Unit193> drc: It's in -proposed, because of a stupid ftbfs on powerpc.
<drc> People still have PowerPC's?
<Unit193> Doesn't matter, it's still holding things back.
<bluesabre> g5 still has one of the coolest cases
<Unit193> (I do, but not putting Ubuntu on it.)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Got a G3, laptop and desktop. :P
<bluesabre> sawtooth?
<bluesabre> I can only imagine how slow those things must be
<Unit193> bluesabre: So I'm supposed to test this for some reason then?  And you'll do a good job patching it up? :P
<bluesabre> Unit193: don't worry aobout it yet, I'll bug you about it again later :)
<bluesabre> I wonder if we have to FFe xfpanel-switch to just add it to the seed...
<knome> we should get our target size changed to avoid those "oversizes" messages
<Unit193> Or become smaller again...
<knome> mhm, not so easy this time
<Unit193> Well, aren't gcc/g++/etc unstripped?
<Unit193> That'll help some.
<knome> what do you mean by unstripped
<newform8|SM-G386> Arizona Nebraska Units States they spell anus  
<knome> newform8|SM-G386, this is a family-friendly channel.
<knome> newform8|SM-G386, so please stop. thank you.
<newform8|SM-G386> you're welcome I will 
<knome> also, if you are looking for a general chatter room, we have #xubuntu-offtopic for that purpose (family-friendly as well)
<newform8|SM-G386> thanks I'm there now but I don't want to talk about what I typed about. you see, I thought I was typing that into a different room 
<knome> newform8|SM-G386, you are free not to talk.
<knome> newform8|SM-G386, but please do the not talking or talking on #xubuntu-offtopic 
<knome> unless it is related to xubuntu development.
<DalekSec> Then do the talking or the not talking on #xubuntu-devel.
<ochosi> bluesabre: just fyi, i asked around and ubiquity will get a new upload soon, so our installer bug (transition to feh) should be fixed for 15.10
<knome> :)
<newform8|SM-G386> knome, I understand, I was just saying that I didn't mean to type what I originally typed in here 
<newform8|SM-G386> if I payed more attention to the label of the room, I would have entered the message onto the intended room, which wasn't this one 
<bluesabre> ochosi: that's great news
<bluesabre> ochosi: added a debdiff for our libreoffice report, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/1483914
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1483914 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "libreoffice-style-elementary as alternate to libreoffice-style-human" [Undecided,New]
<bluesabre> it takes FOREVER to build lo
<Unit193> Yeeep
<bluesabre> oh boy
<bluesabre> here comes gcc5
 * bluesabre closes email app
<Unit193> gcc5?
<bluesabre> "No-change rebuild using GCC 5."
<bluesabre> lots and lots and lots of that
<Unit193> You haven't updated in a while, have you?
<Unit193> bluesabre: In wily, apt-cache show suckless-tools, what do you see?
<flocculant> not seen any rebuilds for gcc5 for a week or so
 * Unit193 just did a ton today.
<bluesabre> Unit193: http://paste.ubuntu.com/12213468/
<Unit193> Not just me, wondered if it'd matter en_GB vs en_US.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Thanks, missing long description.
<bluesabre> np
<flocculant> bluesabre: did you see the parole crash of close with X comment yesterday? 
<flocculant> which I can confirm
<knome> pleia2, updated lp:xubuntu-website/docs-startpage (14.10 is EOL)
<flocculant> bug 1489533
<ubottu> bug 1489533 in parole (Ubuntu) "Parole freezes when you try to close it" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1489533
<flocculant> added crash file to it 
<flocculant> bluesabre: want that reported at bugzilla? 
<brainwash> bug 1488494
<ubottu> bug 1488494 in parole (Ubuntu) "/usr/bin/parole:11:handler_unref_R:g_signal_handler_disconnect:parole_gst_shutdown:parole_player_quit:parole_player_stopped" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1488494
<bluesabre> flocculant: sure, if you're feeling reporty
<brainwash> flocculant: this appears to be related
<bluesabre> and thanks!
<bluesabre> and hey brainwash 
<brainwash> hello bluesabre 
<bluesabre> I'll be working on bug reports this weekend, trying to knock the big ones out (mugshot camera, parole crash on close)
<bluesabre> I have a mostly working solution for mugshot
<bluesabre> currently camera is flipped and missing the right side, so not yet complete :D
<bluesabre> gotta run, bbl
<flocculant> bluesabre: ok, done that
<flocculant> brainwash: it does
<knome> ochosi, bluesabre: is the plan to keep 4.12 for 16.04, eg. no develeopment components?
<ochosi> knome: depends, so far there is only the power manager that comes to mind...
<knome> long time until 16.04 too
<ochosi> i presume we'd manage to do a first stable release with that
<ochosi> but i don't expect too much overall progress in xfce-land until 16.04 tbh
<ochosi> unless a horde of motivated devs show up and port the hell out of it
<flocculant> hello peeps
<ochosi> hey flocculant 
<knome> 'lo
<ochosi> knome, bluesabre: after some more thinking, i guess we'll have to evaluate the situation during 16.04 based on xfce4.14's progress, but i guess i'd rather be conservative about mixing in dev versions in the LTS release
<knome> like in 12.04? (:
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> well if the 4.14 progress means we might be able to upgrade 16.04 to it "soon after the release"...
<knome> hah
<ochosi> bluesabre: btw, ofourdan is not a fan of us picking the vsync patch for xubuntu (read #xfce-dev ftm)
<bluesabre> ochosi: it's ok, we're past ff now and I wasn't sure about it yet
<bluesabre> ochosi: re: 16.04 and 4.14
<bluesabre> let's not ship too many dev things
<bluesabre> unless we're already carrying them in wily
<bluesabre> can be a huge pain to update them later in that lts cycle, so many things change around in dev releases
<bluesabre> let's shoot for a really solid release ;)
<sidi> Hey, im having trouble building the Xubuntu 14.04 version of Thunar
<sidi> says I'm missing thunar-thumbnail-cache-dbus.xml
<knome> bluesabre, i think i generally agree - mostly because i don't think there's anything worth breaking our LTS in 4.13
<knome> bluesabre, and heads up, we want to upload the wallpaper before UIF, please tell me when you need it so you will certainly have time to upload it
<knome> slickymasterWork, ping ping, we should look at updating the installer slideshow some time soon
<slickymasterWork> yes we should knome. Next sunday? Are you free?
<slickymasterWork> I'll be unavailable tonight and tomorrow all day
<slickymasterWork> still no word from neither from dylan or from graber
<slickymasterWork> - from
<slickymasterWork> have to go now, knome but will be around sunday
<knome> slickymaster, sunday should work, though wife has a day off, so i don't know about the day
<knome> slickymaster, evening is good as always
<bluesabre> sidi: ./configure --enable-maintainer-mode
<bluesabre> knome: anytime you want to make it available I can upload it
<sidi> bluesabre, damn that must be what i was missing
<sidi> i ended up copy pastaing xml files from another build tree, so lame :x
<knome> sidi, newb.
<sidi> knome, meh.
<sidi> i was busy
<bluesabre> sidi: that might have solved it, and if not, pretend that I didn't say anything
<sidi> bluesabre, I reckon you're right from what I read in the makefiles
<sidi> i'm pretty confident I forgot to use that flag
<bluesabre> :)
<pleia2> knome: flyers arrived early!
<pleia2> knome: https://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/20966299721/ & https://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/20966314621/
<pleia2> (and anyone else who is interested :))
<bluesabre> pleia2: those look great!
<pleia2> yeah, I'm really happy with them
<knome> pleia2, awesome
<knome> now you can close your work item and see it being done today on the timeline ;)
<pleia2> yeah already DONE-ed in
<pleia2> s/in/it
<knome> cool
<knome> and it shows up as it should
<knome> \o/
<knome> we should get these up on the website and social mediaize it
<pleia2> social mediaed
<knome> oh
<knome> ok
<pleia2> no time to do blog post right now, maybe once we update the website and generate download links and stuff
 * pleia2 airplane in a few hours
<knome> ok, i'll be on my desktop soon and can prepare stuff etc
<mhall119> pleia2: are you getting community donations money to print those flyers?
<knome> updated http://xubuntu.org/products/ with preliminary stuff; will move the files to static.xubuntu.org later
<knome> pleia2, ^ feel free to comment (or just overwrite) if you think it can be further improved)
<ochosi> bluesabre: yeah agreed
<knome> pleia2, lp:xubuntu-website/static-assets is updated for your pleasure
<knome> ochosi, quick question: does the formatting of the release names satisfy you in the sidebar at http://xstaging.lallinaho.fi/blog/ ?
<knome> ochosi, and is http://xstaging.lallinaho.fi/release/14-04/ fine for the formatting as is?
<knome> if yes, then i'll ask IS to take this to production
<ochosi> looks good to me, but why does 13.04 not have a codename?
<knome> because it's not inserted
<ochosi>  /o\
<knome> hah
<ochosi> no seriously, looks good to me :)
<knome> heh, good to have checked.
<knome> let's make a sane order for the widget.
 * knome looks up the documentation for "get_germs"
<knome> oopsiedaisy.
<knome> no natural "version" sort
<knome> righto, done
<knome> poking IS next
<knome> ok, done
<azzenovic_> hi I've read about xubuntu core and I was wondering apart from being bare bones(no application preinstalled nearly) does it offer the same xfce experience as Xubuntu ?
<knome> not exactly the same, but there are surely similarities
<azzenovic_> mmmm in other words what am i gonna miss exactly?
<knome> there is no definite list
<knome> see yourself
<azzenovic_> Xubuntu has been surprising me for years and to be frank I needed something barebones like xubuntu core 
#xubuntu-devel 2015-08-29
<pleia2> knome: thanks, where does the flyer source live again?
<knome> pleia2, lp:xubuntu-marketing
<knome> pleia2, has a script to produce the pdfs from the svg
<knome> once IS pulls the new theme stuff, i'll have another update for static.
 * pleia2 thubms up
 * knome wonders what thubming means
<pleia2> :P
<pleia2> I'll try to update docs.x.o and static soon, scrambling to finish work-things before airplane
<knome> no rush
<knome> nothing is really "broken" because they exist
<Comstock> so i've just eaten chicken nuggets for the 3rd day in a row
<Comstock> i bet i am going to start rotting
<knome> Comstock, this isn't a public chat channel.
<Comstock> oh whoops i hit the wrong tab
<knome> Comstock, try #xubuntu-offtopic if you must tell about your digestion
<Comstock> my mistake
<bluesabre> late evening folks
<drc> Late bird catches the early bug.
<drc> or
<bluesabre> already did that yesterday, spent today trying to not be sick
<drc> Sleep?  Sleep? we doan need no stink' sleep.
<bluesabre> :D
 * bluesabre loves his sleep
<drc> hehe...took a while..."bug"..."sick"...hehe
<bluesabre> ;)
<bluesabre> morning all
<knome> hello sean
<bluesabre> hey knome 
<flocculant> morning benonsoftware 
<flocculant> oh dear
<flocculant> morning bluesabre :)
 * benonsoftware waves
<flocculant> :)
<Unit193> benonsoftware: Howdy.
<benonsoftware> Hiyas Unit193 
<bluesabre> hiya flocculant, Unit193, and benonsoftware 
<knome> bbl
<knome> evening
<omegaphoenix> Hi any advice on getting started with contributing?
<knome> omegaphoenix, hello
<knome> what are you interested in getting involved with?
<omegaphoenix> I could get started by working on minor bug fixes in any area
<knome> omegaphoenix, http://tracker.xubuntu.org/#tab-details
<knome> in that list, you will see all bugs that are especially targeted for 15.10
<omegaphoenix> Cool thanks
<knome> of course there are more, but...
<knome> welcome - and thanks for the interest :)
<knome> bluesabre is our technical lead, he can tell more
<knome> and others can help with many things as well
<knome> just ask
<omegaphoenix> What do you usually work on?
<knome> i'm the website lead, but in addition to web stuff i work with artwork, docs, etc etc
<knome> fwiw, these are my work items for this release so far: http://tracker.xubuntu.org/#tab-details/knome
<omegaphoenix> How do I get someone to sponsor my fix once I complete something?
<knome> the complete (and bureaucratic) answer is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess - the practical answer is "poke people on this channel when you are done"
<knome> we'll guide you through the process then
<knome> flocculant, see http://tracker.xubuntu.org/#tab-timeline
<knome> flocculant, now it's ordered based on week in the cycle - also every "week" starts with a thursday...
<knome> flocculant, i'm starting to think the sanest thing to do is to group them by month, then add some indication of the date
<knome> because the code to figure this out is ugly
<knome> and the headers are clumsy with the dates shown (but it would be confusing to say week x without showing them)
<andrzejr> Any chance of changing the default CSD theme to look more like xfwm4 theme? Currently, all CSD windows look as if they had no focus, which is really confusing, especially with multiple displays.
<knome> andrzejr, i think ochosi has been looking into that
<andrzejr> knome, I think part of the problem is that (here) CSD windows use a greybird Gtk theme and xfwm4 uses Moheli. As much as I like greybird's Gtk theme, its xfwm4 one is poor (little contrast and thin borders).
<knome> yep.
<ali1234> andrzejr: the only way to fix that would be to make xfwm draw the borders with gtk
<ali1234> ie the same way CSD is drawn
<andrzejr> AFAIR ofourdan was pretty clear this isn't going to happen.
<ali1234> exactly, so it can't be fixed
<andrzejr> It cannot be fixed in general but you could still have a theme that does a good job both for widgets and window borders.
<andrzejr> besides, drawing drawing borders via gtk and keeping the current theme wouldn't fix *my* problem. It would make contrast of *all* window borders poor, not just the CSD ones.
#xubuntu-devel 2015-08-30
<omegaphoenix> Do you guys usually develop on virtual boxes?
<bluesabre> omegaphoenix: I develop on hardware, test with virtual machines and hardware
<bluesabre> virtual machines let me test multiple configurations and distros easily (debian, fedora, opensuse, etc)
<omegaphoenix> Where are the files for development?
<omegaphoenix> I found the daily build page
<bluesabre> omegaphoenix: primarily launchpad.net and git.xfce.org
<bluesabre> flocculant: it worrrrrrks! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXWXF4LffgY&feature=youtu.be
<bluesabre> night all
<HoloIRCUser1> How does Xubuntu development set-up differ from packaging.ubuntu.com/html/getting-set-up.html
<flocculant> bluesabre: \o/
<flocculant> well I more or less successfully exported panel config to a clean install :)
<flocculant> knome: ack the "sanest thing to do is to group them by month, then add some indication of the date"
<knome>  :)
<knome> i'll land that change later today..
<knome> flocculant, done
<ochosi> andrzejr: not sure what version of greybird you're using and yeah ofc with a different xfwm4 theme things become inconsistent. sorry you don't like the xfwm4 theme of greybird, i guess you'd have to modify the greybird CSD styling yourself in order to get what you want...
<andrzejr> ochosi, I've seen your discussion with ofourdan. Couldn't really follow the details, but is there any reason why Greybird couldn't include some xfwm4-specific css definitions coming from another xfwm4 theme?
<ochosi> well you can do that yourself by modifying the respective portions of css in greybird
<ochosi> but there is no (unhacky) dynamic way to do that
<andrzejr> why not? You can dynamically change the theme after all.
<ochosi> thing is, it's very simple: with CSD you lose the ability to indepedently choose gtk and wm theme
<ochosi> because it's the same
<ochosi> also, there is no xfwm4-specific css
<andrzejr> so far
<ochosi> xfwm4 has its own theming system (which olivier wants to keep in place)
<ochosi> so yeah, i guess as long as xfce doesn't go CSD all over, you'll have to live with what we have atm
<ochosi> the situation even won't change when xfwm4 is ported to gtk3
<ochosi> simply because the theming isn't done in CSS and nothing is drawn by Gtk
<andrzejr> we could add css to all default xfwm themes. I assume the only thing left to do is to include it in a gtk theme.
<ochosi> that was my suggestion to olivier, but he felt it was too hacky
<ochosi> there is no easy way to override the current theme with a css portion afaik
<ochosi> i mean: not within the app but from the outside (e.g. coming from xfsettingsd)
<andrzejr> we could have a link xfwm4.css or similar pointing to the current theme,
<ochosi> oh also: if you want to change more than just the wm icons, that css file would be fairly long
<ochosi> you'd have to theme the whole headerbar and somehow ensure it'd still be consistent with *any given gtk theme*
<andrzejr> how does xfsettingsd currently change the gtk theme? We could use the same method.
<ochosi>  changes an xsetting afaik
<ochosi> this one: /Net/ThemeName
<andrzejr> That's the point. It doesn't have to be consistent with any gtk theme, only with xfwm themes.
<ochosi> it sure does. headerbars/CSD contains Gtk widgets like buttons, comboboxes, entries etc
<ochosi> you can't make those look like crap or unreadable with the CSS you're loading
<ochosi> so yeah, long story short: appearance settings isn't the solution cause it changes an xsetting that Gtk+ listens to and then changes the theme
<ochosi> maybe it can be done manually too, one would have to read the Gtk+ source code though to know for sure
<andrzejr> since it is an Xfwm-specific mechanism we could add our own xsettings entry.
<ochosi> (and yeah, the easy way is putting a file in ~/.config/gtk-3.0)
<ochosi> anyhoo, the other thing is that i'm not really sure it's worth it...
<ochosi> it's a lot of hassle and hackiness for dubious outcome
<ochosi> the ideal situation is that you use a gtk and xfwm4 theme that match
<andrzejr> The last resort solution is indeed making a new theme. A naive question, would you mind adding more contrast to Greybird's window decorations an widening the borders to >=4px?
<ochosi> this isn't the kind of change i take lightly tbh
<ochosi> i haven't heard many complaints about the contrast in a very long time
<ochosi> (or any to be exact)
<ochosi> wrt xfwm4 decoration borders, yeah, i've been working on a wider version
<andrzejr> I know it is in "usability vs prettiness" territory but many users would appreciate such changes, even if as a variant.
<ochosi> i personally dont like it and i'm not sure why anyone would need it, but sure... :)
<ochosi> (yeah, yeah, the usual complaint is about resizing windows but there are so many other ways to resize windows...)
<ochosi> so yeah, the a11y variant is planned but still a few steps away
<knome> oops, that blew my idle cover :O
<knome> :P
<ochosi> i currently just dont have the time to work with it very much
<ochosi> hehe indeed :p
<knome> i was just going to step out of the misty closet anyway
<andrzejr> I agree with this complaint. Resizing the windows is *the* purpose of window borders. Otherwise why include them at all.
<knome> andrzejr, i don't agree, the purpose of the window borders is to create structure for the data on the screen ;)
<ochosi> andrzejr: that's ok, then make xfwm4 use the shadow of the window as its resize area (like CSD do) ;)
<knome> ochosi, i'd like you to check out something
<knome> ochosi, bzr branch lp:xubuntu-docs
<knome> ochosi, in branch root: make clean style html
<knome> err
<knome> ochosi, make startpage html <- should be enough and correct
<knome> ochosi, then see build/index.html
<andrzejr> fair point. but afaik that wouldn't work without compositing enabled.
<knome> andrzejr, of course not, because there is no shadow then
<knome> but then again you could use another xfwm theme (for example, the greybird a11y version, hopefully in the near future)
<andrzejr> I hope the a11y version will not go overboard with a11y. There is nothing wrong with Gtk widgets theming, just the wm part.
<knome> no, it's not supposed to be high contrast
<knome> ochosi, did you pick that up? :)
<ochosi> andrzejr: you can try the xfwm4-a11y branch of greybird if you want, but it's still very much WIP
<knome> andrzejr, and if you have specific wishes/suggestions, at least i don't care if you submit them as issues in github
<andrzejr> oh, I didn't know you've got something already.
<knome> something... not a lot
<andrzejr> well, my wish is to make the CSD fad go away (not just for visual inconsistency, I consider it a massive step back in terms of usability too). But I guess that a WONTFIX.
<knome> that's not something for greybird anyway
<andrzejr> sure, just ranting
<ochosi> :>
<knome> ;)
<knome> ochosi, hellooooo?
<ochosi> knome: i'm pulling...
<knome> thanks :P
<ochosi> i'm using my phone with tethering,no interwebs in new flat yet...
<knome> awwh
<ochosi> so yeah, that sort of thing takes time
<ochosi> plus LP is slow
<knome> i could have pushed stuff in the webs for you then
<knome> well, pulling the docs branch is always slow
<knome> when you do it with no previous data
<knome> i'll race you, let's see if i'm ready first
<ochosi> ok done
<knome> aha
<knome> you win
<knome> now do: make startpage html
<knome> and forget my sillyness about style and clean before ;)
<ochosi> much nicer look than the current docs
<knome> heh
<knome> well
<ochosi> looks more like the website ;)
<knome> it's a slight refresh
<knome> yeah, that's the point
<ochosi> with the shadows and colors
<knome> also click to the docs
<knome> should have a similar style
<knome> so if you're happy with that, then good
<ochosi> yup, +1 from me
<knome> just wanted another pair of eyes
<ochosi> why does the TOC have to have that dark bar on the left?
<knome> if you go to a chapter page, you'll notice why
<knome> (it would mix in too easily with the content)
<ochosi> and why is it that hyperlinks are blue *and* underlined?
<knome> and keeping it on the frontpage as well makes stuff consistent
<ochosi> right
<knome> i think just changing the color is meh with short paragraphs
<knome> eg, see http://docs.xubuntu.org/1410/guide-default-apps.html#default-graphics
<knome> it would look weird with no underlines
<knome> and it's added clarity
<knome> which is never bad in a documentation imo
<knome> there are also other blue things, eg. http://docs.xubuntu.org/1410/media-apps.html#media-music-listen
<knome> sure, they are different blues, but if people see elliptic circles..
<knome> O;)
<ochosi> hah
<ochosi> sad excuses!
<knome> :D
<ochosi> :D
<knome> no, i stand by the style
<knome> i think it's good
<knome> it works well with the content we have there
<ochosi> anyway, nice refresh
<knome> maybe we should add the underlines for the website as well ;)
<knome> (no, not really, that's a different beast)
<knome> and thanks
<ochosi> the home icon is a bit awkward though tbh, why is it not blue like the navigation arrows?
 * ochosi feels nitpicky
<knome> because != https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68ugkg9RePc
<ochosi> ouch
<ochosi> good i have my laptop muted by default
<knome> so, no blue house and no blue window
<knome> just fifty shades of grey
<knome> :P
<ochosi> :D
<ochosi> anyhoo, gotta get some sleep
<knome> well, the real answer:
<knome> i tried that when i did those icons, and it looked weird with all blue
<knome> and nighty :)
<ochosi> that's ok :)
<knome> (and good luck with the "sleep" part)
<ochosi> heh, thanks
#xubuntu-devel 2016-08-29
<bluesabre> flocculant, knome, it's ok to leave my name wrong :D
<bluesabre> I can go by S. Davis going forward
<knome> (:
<bluesabre> knome, pleia2, not sure if I should author an article about becoming MOTU through xubuntu when I have been talking about working towards motu for several cycles and not done it yet
<bluesabre> a bit unqualified :D
<knome> bluesabre, well, you'll get to it eventually
<bluesabre> (to write the article that is)
<knome> and i don't really mean even about the mentoring side
<bluesabre> I'm definitely up for mentoring
<knome> i'm talking about communicating that we always have things to upload, and we are usually relatively clear about what we want, so there might be some relatively hanging fruit here
<knome> pleia2, sorry, i took another one of your work items
<knome> ...aaaaand the pad is almost empty, just some knome things left
<knome> bluesabre, see what i did today ;) http://staging.xubuntu.org/news/release/14-04/
<knome> (note: staging)
<knome> and a glimpse to the admin side: http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/website/release-link-edit.png
<bluesabre> knome, so, expiring release announcements... or?
<knome> :D
<knome> nope
<knome> moving the press stuff under the release pages
<knome> and the download links
<knome> and the screenshots
<knome> currently we have this: http://xubuntu.org/news/release/14-04/
<knome> so now you can get all information from one page
<knome> and it's automagically collected together
<knome> (and adding press links is so much easier)
<bluesabre> oh, alrighty, neat
<bluesabre> long day
<bluesabre> :)
<knome> mhm
<knome> it's 4am :D
<bluesabre> sleep man
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> nooo
<flocculant> bluesabre: good - sorry about that :)
<knome> pleia2, heeeey, my latest push is online :D
<knome> pleia2, (o hai 5am!)
<knome> okay, onto migrating content...
<knome> le sigh!
<knome> pleia2, ok, something for you to be aware of:
<knome> pleia2, i'm going to land a change that changes the URLs for the releases
<knome> pleia2, currently: http://xubuntu.org/news/release/16-04/
<knome> pleia2, will be: http://xubuntu.org/release/16-04/
<knome> pleia2, (since it's not only news any more)
<knome> pleia2, are you very worried about this or will we just go with it? now it's adding one array inside another, if we want to keep both urls available, it'll be much more work
<knome> pleia2, ok, all content is migrated to new format, i'll tackle the changes needed elsewhere on the site later today
<pleia2> knome: breaking all our old urls is a bit :(
<pleia2> but I'm not sure how widely distributed these were
<pleia2> mostly it was the blog posts people saw and were shared in announcements and things
<pleia2> I think
<knome> yep
<knome> we could go fix our own links if that helps
<knome> basically i'd like to support .'s in the urls, but that's a bit hacky
 * knome goes file another rt ticket
<knome> pleia2, tip for the UWN (and a shameless plug): http://open.knome.fi/2016/08/29/a-wordpress-theme-for-ubuntu-community-teams/
<pleia2> knome: ty
<pleia2> it'll go in next week
<knome> no worries
<knome> pleia2, wordpress and dokuwiki updates done
<pleia2> ty
<knome> np
<Noskcaj> Can one of the guys with the relevant powers please sync xfce4-weather-plugin, small fix to the api url just got put into debian
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, What's the issue with the clutter camera affecting mugshot in xenial? Is the fix needed in debian or yakkety?
<Unit193> Recent GTK3 uploads to Debian: libxfce4ui (4.13.0-1, no glade), xfce4-power-manager (1.6.0-1), xfce4-terminal (0.6.90-1)
<Unit193> Noskcaj: LP hasn't picked it up yet.
<Noskcaj> Unit193, oh ok, it's coming up on requestsync just without a changelog
<Unit193> Thus not getting picked up yet, yep.
<pleia2> knome: ok, how do I do this thing
<knome> go to admin, then release links and "add new"
<pleia2> ty
<knome> in the first box, just leave the press selection there
<knome> in the second box, you enter the link title and url
<pleia2> hey, what happened to our pad D:
<knome> and in the first one, you enter the author site, then author editor and author url (you can leave editor empty)
<knome> haha
<knome> i did everything that was in there
<pleia2> I put all the links in there!
<knome> and moved the rest to the blueprints
<knome> you did?
<knome> well you can still get to the history
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> sorry, i didn't notice i wiped that stuff
<pleia2> I guess I didn't
 * pleia2 greplogs
<knome> yeah
<knome> i remember you pasted them in the PM i guess
<knome> or sth
<knome> or channel?
<pleia2> would have helped me to have them struck out rather than deleted though, I wanted to look at the pad again ;)
<knome> well.. you still can get the history :D
<pleia2> time slider is annoying
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> haha
<pleia2> pleia2 hates deleting things, it's knome's hobby...
<knome> i moved the done action items that were important enough to the blueprints as well
<knome> pleia2, http://pad.ubuntu.com/ep/pad/view/xubuntu-marketing-august-2016/rev.1253
<knome> pleia2, i started deleting stuff after that
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> pads are transient anyway
<pleia2> yay, very pretty :) http://xubuntu.org/news/release/16-04/
<knome> indeed
<knome> on the last update i'm also ordering by link title
<pleia2> I still like our big /press page
<knome> the archive is pretty meh
<pleia2> er, press/archive
<pleia2> no, it's great
<knome> haha
<knome> well
<knome> just wait
<pleia2> a whole history of awesome!
<knome> at some point in the near future i'll do something for that
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> i don't know exactly what yet
<pleia2> I can to the copy/pasta to put them all in our new system if that's the way we go
<knome> nope
<pleia2> s/to/do
<knome> i did that already
<pleia2> k
<knome> so if we want the press archive still
<pleia2> we do
<knome> i'll just create a shortcode that prints everything
<knome> or sth
<pleia2> ok
<knome> basically i'd like a "start page" for releases
<knome> that would serve as some kind of history page as well
<knome> maybe something like that would work for you?
<knome> or do you want a plain list of all the links?
<pleia2> I like what we have now
<knome> i know you hate deleting and change too ;)
<pleia2> lol
<pleia2> <3
<pleia2> I find great value in the historical niceness of having an archive page
<pleia2> wouldn't want to click through all the releases to see them all
<knome> mmh.
<knome> maybe.
<pleia2> make it so!
<knome> :D
<pleia2> hehe
<knome> later
<pleia2> k
<knome> i mean, it's not a big task
<knome> how do we want to handle the main press page?
<pleia2> I think it's fine
<knome> nooo :D
<pleia2> except actually list those 16.04 ones ;)
<knome> i mean, we *really* don't want to duplicate the effort
<knome> so make the shortcode accept a parameter to get stuff from one release only
<pleia2> it still pulls the links from the same place, right?
<knome> not right now
<pleia2> so make 16.04 links show up on /press and the release page
<knome> the release pages are the only automatic ones now
<pleia2> yeah, right now it's still manual
<knome> do we want to auto-guess the latest release?
<pleia2> well, we have to update the /press page anyway to say that it's the whatever release
<pleia2> so a bit to flip when we do that?
<knome> well, when we auto-guess the latest release, we can get all information related to that release
<knome> including the name
<pleia2> ah
<pleia2> suppose we could guess, the data exists
<knome> yep
<pleia2> go numbers, and sequential time
<knome> well,
<knome> there's one problem
<knome> well not really
<knome> we likely want to switch to the latest release only after its releaes
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> so when we register the release, we need to make sure we add the release date there
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> another thing we aren't tracking technically yet is the LTS status
<pleia2> right
<knome> so maybe a simple checkbox
<knome> one minor thing i was considering is to move the codename with the release/eol dates
<knome> with this amount of content, it starts to be a bit overwhelming
<pleia2> you're the expert :)
<knome> haha
<knome> :)
<knome> i play one by my trade
<bluesabre> evening all
<knome> hello simon
<knome> i mean sean
<bluesabre> Noskcaj, the issue affecting xenial is that the clutter API I used was completed deprecated between clutter releases... and from what I understand, clutter itself is also due to be completed deprecated in the future
<bluesabre> knome, :P
<knome> (:
#xubuntu-devel 2016-08-30
<bluesabre> flocculant, the preferred applications alignment was in fact my fault, https://git.xfce.org/xfce/exo/commit/?id=63a9f5d5fa16c598d888ee017714dd0b8548bab6 :D
<Unit193> :D
<flocculant> bluesabre: :)
<knome> who's reading my mind? it's happened twice to me in a row that i procrastinate with the mailing list moderation queue's, and then finally decided to clean them up... and when i open up the admin interface, it's cleaned!
<akxwi-dave> well it  was't me...  :-)
<ochosi> hey everyone!
<ochosi> flocculant: thanks for setting up the poll and everything
<ochosi> does it automatically end once everyone has voted or do you have to manually close it?
<flocculant> ochosi: it's manual 
<flocculant> ochosi: also - you going to be about to announce? 
<ochosi> i'm around at least once a day this week, but then afk fri and sat
<ochosi> on sunday i should be back
<ochosi> so depending on when the poll ends...
<bluesabre> oh goodie
<flocculant> ochosi: currently waiting on 1 result to land then it can be closed 
<bluesabre> ochosi, going to drop you a bunch of greybird tweak requests
<bluesabre> bbl
<flocculant> hi bye bluesabre :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: sure thing, send it anytime
<bluesabre> one thing, so much padding
<ochosi> well that's mostly inherited by adwaita
<bluesabre> currently using numix/zukitre to building layouts so I have an idea of how things look :)
<ochosi> but i was hoping to get the list in a more detailed and well-formatted way :)
<bluesabre> yeah
<ochosi> like: which widgets have too much padding
<bluesabre> I'll make a bunch of bug reports
<bluesabre> flocculant also has a few already
<bluesabre> button
<ochosi> you can also send me a list if it's just tweaks
<bluesabre> k
<bluesabre> bbl for real this time
<ochosi> it's not *that* much more padding though
<ochosi> at max it's 2px on each side
<ochosi> mostly i've taken the values from the "old" gtk3 greybird
<ochosi> flocculant: alright then, just let me know when you're ready!
<flocculant> ochosi: do you need a bug report on the thicker blue lines in the new greybird? 
<bluesabre> ochosi, mugshot is a good example
<bluesabre> maybe there was always that much vertical padding
<flocculant> ochosi: if we manage to be able to finish early (before friday) I'll let you know - and if it's you not voted yet - you have control of it :p
<ochosi> it doesn't seem that bad here (see pm)
<ochosi> flocculant: i already voted :>
<flocculant> that's 2 I know it isn't then :D
<ochosi> and regarding the input boxes tell bluesabre to include it or file an issue on github ;)
<flocculant> bluesabre: include it ...
<flocculant> :p
<flocculant> ochosi: here https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/issues ?
<ochosi> yup, that's the right place
<flocculant> k - I'll do that then 
<ochosi> thanks a bunch!
<flocculant> ochosi: btw not all input boxes are affected - seems to be only those for password
<ochosi> right, i'll check, but be sure to include that in the repoprt
<flocculant> yea ofc
<flocculant> ochosi bluesabre - all done reporting that on github
<flocculant> I assume we don't need a launchpad one
<ochosi> nope, github is totally fine for that
<flocculant> k cool - works for me \o/
<flocculant> ochosi: suspect it's going to be the mia slicky not voting
<ochosi> feel free to poke him
<ochosi> just to be sure
<ochosi> if not we will have to wait
<flocculant> well he's got the mail same as eveeryone
<flocculant> and why do we have to wait - what if he's not back for 2 months?
<flocculant> don't mind waiting a few days obviously
<flocculant> slickyma1ter: ping
<flocculant> he's obviously not been around on irc for some time - still got the odd nick :)
<ochosi> flocculant: well there's a deadline anyway (sept 4, 18 utc) so thats ok
<flocculant> oic 
<flocculant> yea :)
<ochosi> :)
<flocculant> that said I don't think it'd be too much of a problem to postpone for a couple of days
<ochosi> sure
<ochosi> but as you said, he's been MIA for a while
<flocculant> yea
<flocculant> on the other hand - it might not actually be him who's not done it :)
<flocculant> anyway - bbl
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> i thought you knew 
<flocculant> ochosi: nah - I just know how many votes sent and how many used up 
<flocculant> ochosi: we have 11/11 votes now - I can stop poll if you want - then you can announce it this week - let me know what you want to do
<knome> theoretically, can people change their votes=
<knome> ==?
<flocculant> knome: nope
<flocculant> once voted is done you can't use the only url you get again
<knome> ok, then no reason not to end the vote
<flocculant> indeed
<akxwi-dave> I agree  
<akxwi-dave> for what its worth..  :-)
<flocculant> hi akxwi-dave :)
<akxwi-dave> Hi flocculant 
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: you have same rights in team as anyone else :)
<knome> same as with email voting... deadline can be something, but if everybody has voted before that, the result is clear already
<knome> even more if people can't even change votes (with email voting they kind of can..)
<akxwi-dave> I managed to save the laptop...   
<knome> from what?
<flocculant> knome: indeed :)
<akxwi-dave> exploding.. :-)
<flocculant> I'll let ochosi get back to me - I'm not going to announce result unless he asks me to
<knome> sure
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: always good that
<flocculant> and I don't want to stop it now and know the result ages before anyone else does :)
<akxwi-dave> the burning smell that night was the gpu fan burning out.. so replaced the fan.. 
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: lucky :D
<akxwi-dave> tell me..   :-)
<flocculant> Dave - that was lucky :p
<akxwi-dave> :-)
<Unit193> knome: ...Sounds like me. :3
<knome> Unit193, which one?)
<Unit193> ML queue.
<knome> :))
<AndroUser> Hi,I'm new here. I would like to contribute. So, Could someone help me to get started?
<knome> AndroUser, hello
<knome> AndroUser, what are you interested in?
<knome> and welcome
<AndroUser> I'm good in C programming.So I' looking forward to start working on easy tasks
<Unit193> I guess that strikes "fix thunar" from the list. >_>
<knome> most of the code that is xubuntu-specific comes from xfce, so if there is anything you can do to help them... 
<knome> that can involve fixing bugs and/or converting stuff to gtk3 and more
<knome> poke ochosi and bluesabre 
<AndroUser> Could you suggest me some easy fixing bug tasks to start with?
<nairwolf> Maybe that would not be bad to show him this link : http://dev.xubuntu.org/
<nairwolf> And AndroUser, if you fix the thunar bug, everybody will be really grateful ;)
<knome> nairwolf, yeah, and it's obviously the easiest bug there is as nobody has been able to figure out why it's happening.
<knome> AndroUser, wait for ochosi and/or bluesabre to pop up, they can likely point you to some good starting points
<knome> AndroUser, they, and a few more of us, also hang out on #xfce-dev, which is the main development channel for xfce
<nairwolf> knome: that was a joke. I hope AndroUser caught it
<Unit193> By fixing bugs in Xfce, you are actually still helping out Xubuntu too.
<knome> yes, very much so what Unit193 said
<nairwolf> AndroUser: Have you seen this link ? That could help you : http://docs.xubuntu.org/contributors/
<knome> nairwolf, it's hard to interpret tones right on IRC
<nairwolf> that's why I added ";)" at the end. 
<knome> even so
<knome> AndroUser, this is repeated a lot, but it's good advice: if there is some specific bug that really annoys you, fixing that is a good start
<AndroUser> Thank you
<Unit193> FWIW, it will likely take a couple hours for either of them to show up.  It's not that they're ignoring you. :)
<knome> indeed. it might also be a couple of days in the worst case scenario
<nairwolf> sorry knome, I'm not native english speaker, sometimes I'm saying things unclear, or sometimes I can be silly or ambigious. I'm really sorry, but I try to pay attention and to improve
<knome> don't worry too much.
<Unit193> nairwolf: Yeeeah, krytarik and I are Captain Vague, so pretty sure you'll be fine.
<nairwolf> okay, thank you ;)
<flocculant> Unit193: Captain? Don't you mean 2 man behind the lines infiltration team :p
<Unit193> \o/
<flocculant> :)
<Unit193> flocculant: Why you no tell results?! :P
<ochosi> hey flocculant 
<ochosi> and hi everyone else :)
<knome> hey ochosi 
<knome> Unit193, he's no william tell
<ochosi> flocculant: if we have the results and everyone has voted, i'm fine with announcing the result anytime
<Unit193> ochosi: You missed fg01. :(
<ochosi> yeah, just saw that in the backlog
<Unit193> Incoming xfconf and xfdesktop to Debian, btw.
<ochosi> xfconf?
<ochosi> from the private branch?
<ochosi> otherwise there have only been translation updates to that since 4.12.0 afaik
<nairwolf> the result, the result ! 
<Unit193> Nah just boring stuff.
<nairwolf> I'm exciting to see for who you have voted, guys
<ochosi> nairwolf: obviously you'll have to wait patiently :)
<nairwolf> ochosi: yeah, I will wait patiently
<Unit193> ochosi: He wants to see who voted for what! :D
<ochosi> :D
<knome> i waited for the council
<knome> what did others vote for?
<knome> chef for the next community meeting?
<ochosi> guess we'll know the results on a different day
<ochosi> night everyone
<knome> hehe, nighty ochosi 
<Unit193> https://packages.qa.debian.org/x/xfconf/news/20160830T223852Z.html - https://packages.qa.debian.org/x/xfdesktop4/news/20160830T223858Z.html
<bluesabre> AndroUser/fg01, please see https://wiki.xfce.org/contribute/easybugs?s[]=bugs for Xfce's "easy bugs"
<knome> too bad they are gone :P
<bluesabre> indeed
<bluesabre> should they return, quote me :D
<knome> will do
<knome> ...again
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> how
<bluesabre> 's
<bluesabre> it
<bluesabre> going
<bluesabre> (definitely intentional)
<knome> i'm breaking my website.
#xubuntu-devel 2016-08-31
<Unit193> bluesabre: dashy got out of Ubuntu NEW.
<bluesabre> Unit193, woohoo!
<bluesabre> knome, woohoo?
<knome> well i'm cutting down on the amount of css i have to maintain in the future, so kind of...
<bluesabre> nice
<knome> moving to html5 stuff too
<bluesabre> cool
<knome> okay, i think i fixed most things i broke
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> Noskcaj: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-weather-plugin/0.8.7-3
<flocculant> morning
<Unit193> Mourning.
<flocculant> yup 
<flocculant> summer is almost dead
<Unit193> Finally...
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> pretty summery summer we had, must be brexit and we imported summer directly from that well known country Africa
<flocculant> none of the Euro summer taking stuff from us and not giving anything back :p
 * pavlushka summarizing the summery as interesting :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: you've had a break from me finding things - time to start again - got a bug on the iso - not sure where to report it
<flocculant> we have no slideshow currently - not *that* important I guess, but we should have one ;)
<flocculant> knome: when we changed xpl to council in strat docs - we only changed the xpl section, mp for remaining changes > https://code.launchpad.net/~flocculant/xubuntu-docs/addcouncil/+merge/304445
<Unit193> exo 0.11.1-1 made it out of Debian NEW.
<knome> flocculant, yeah...
<knome> flocculant, "If the Council abstains from the vote, the team leader in question has a casting vote." doesn't make sense
<knome> flocculant, and "The above guidelines can be omitted when there are extensive benefits to seeding the package, consensus between the Xubuntu Council and Xubuntu Technical Lead as well as broad support from the Xubuntu team." might need slight tweaking in wording
<knome> flocculant, probably "While the Xubuntu Council and the Xubuntu Technical Lead have the last word on package selection, it's recommended that the whole team is involved in the discussion, bringing up well thought out arguments both for and against." too
<Unit193> fg01: < bluesabre> AndroUser/fg01, please see https://wiki.xfce.org/contribute/easybugs?s[]=bugs for Xfce's "easy bugs"
<fg01> Thank you
<flocculant> knome: what doesn't make sense about the abstaining bit?
<flocculant> knome: ack the other, also while not changed yet this doesn't make sense for sure "When disputes occur, contributors are strongly encouraged to refrain from taking the disputed actions to avoid sabotaging the dispute resolution process."
<knome> why would the whole *council* abstain?
<flocculant> who knows?
<knome> i don't think any single person should have a casting vote with the council
<knome> i mean... if it was a single XPL, he'd have a casting vote naturally
<knome> a council can have votes split
<knome> so if the council suddenly completely abstains... why should one person have a casting vote in THAT situation?
<flocculant> I guess
<flocculant> tbh not that interested - I'll just change it to whatever you want
<knome> just drop the sentence
<knome> well
<knome> let it be
<knome> i'll do my changes and then approve the whole stuff via the tema
<knome> *team
<flocculant> the bit that I say doesn't make sense - doesn't make sense 'Englishly' 
<knome> or council if that's set up at that point
<knome> :D
<flocculant> pointless doing bunches of changes - you do them all
<knome> hmm?
<flocculant> I'll delete this one :)
<knome> please don't
<knome> i'll base my stuff on it
<flocculant> oh ok
<knome> i'm happy somebody noticed this...
<knome> and while the latter ones i mentioned are just wording, i think the first one needs team/council approval
<knome> and i'm not really sure what the right path is even
<flocculant> I'll resubmit it then
<knome> thanks
<flocculant> without the abstainy bit
<knome> sure, thanks
<flocculant> but I'm not sure what we're actually trying to say here "When disputes occur, contributors are strongly encouraged to refrain from taking the disputed actions to avoid sabotaging the dispute resolution process."
<knome> the meaning is
<knome> if people disagree about a default package manager
<flocculant> I assume taking it to somewhere - but that's not obvious to me
<knome> nobody should go change the default package manager until the dispute is resolved
<flocculant> oh right 
<flocculant> mmm
<flocculant> ok - I'll look at wording there
<knome> thanks
<flocculant> I'll look when properly back from work and resubmit it
<knome> mhm, thanks
<flocculant> knome: just to be sure - the abstain bit I will leave saying XPL for the time being
<knome> wfm
<knome> it's a draft/WIP thing anyway
<flocculant> yea ofc
<flocculant> should really always be wip or Xubuntu is stagnant :)
<knome> more or less yes
<flocculant> knome: mmm that bit which makes no sense to me exists in Dispute Resolution - are you positive it relates to packages?
<flocculant> actually I see what people are trying to say 'don't do whatever the dispute is about' I'm not sure action(s) is the right word though
<flocculant> but given it's not been an issue up to now - resubmitting without touching it
<flocculant> ochosi: thanks for doing that :)
<knome> flocculant, not only packages, but generally disputes; my example was... just an example :)
<flocculant> yea 
<flocculant> as I say worked it out in the end :)
<knome> yep
<knome> bluesabre, ochosi: congrats
<knome> Unit193, thanks for the apparently really tight race!
<knome> ochosi, if you add me as an admin to the xpl team, i can handle the formalities
<knome> eg. team name change etc.
<knome> bluesabre, ochosi: since the council is to set its own chair, i propose sean as he was the number one choice for the community in the vote
<flocculant> knome: thanks for working with me to get us this far on the council thing
<knome> flocculant, but of course :)
<flocculant> congrats to bluesabre ochosi knome :)
<knome> this is for the benefit for us all - at least i believe so..
<flocculant> knome: I know I'm not the easiest to work with - but only a few more weeks to go
<knome> flocculant, nah, it's fine
<knome> i appreciate people bringing up problems for real and not just shrugging and leaving them be
<flocculant> well I will still be about for at least 1 more cycle 
<knome> that's good to hear :)
<flocculant> looking forward to taking over from akxwi-dave  :p
<knome> a few more weeks..
<flocculant> 6 ...
<knome> haha
<flocculant> not that I'm counting :p
<knome> are you counting the days with a comb?
<flocculant> scratching the wall in the cell - that's hard with a straitjacket on ...
<knome> d:
<flocculant> knome: I found xpl elsewhere too ...
<knome> oh my
<flocculant> knome: if it makes it easier I'll kill those 3 and do 1 instead :p
<knome> wfm
<knome> but either way is ok
<knome> i can look at the diff for all of your edits combined anyway
<flocculant> well I can do it if you want 
<flocculant> or not
<flocculant> either way is ok :p
<knome> no specific need
<flocculant> ok - well all xpl (except an addition to the qa team one while I was dealing with xpl in there)
<knome> ack
<flocculant> and I left the abstainy thing as it was beforehand
<knome> oki
<flocculant> as discussed lunchtime
<knome> i'll try to look at that today
<knome> (after wife has went to bed)
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> well no rush I guess 
<flocculant> at some point I'll go over the qa stuff before I hand over to Dave, just to make sure there's nothing missing from there I have in my head he'd want
<flocculant> knome: with the other Dave being missing in action currently, is there anything we need to look at for the user docs?
<flocculant> cos doc freeze isn't far away 
<knome> that's a good question...
<knome> i'll try to look at that too
<akxwi-dave> evening
<knome> hello dave
<akxwi-dave> and flocculant .. the QA lead is yours whenever you want it... :-)
<akxwi-dave> and grats to the new Council......   
 * knome does a formal 1/3 bow
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: you can't give it back now I've got rid ... 
<flocculant> :p
<akxwi-dave> you still got it till next cycle.. you aint rid yet... :-)
<ochosi> flocculant: thanks again for handling the poll!
<ochosi> knome: you're admin in the xpl team now so you can handle the rename
<ochosi> i also added bluesabre 
<ochosi> Unit193: tip of the hat, that was close!
<flocculant> ochosi: just replied to your mail with url of results - for pleia2's archivy head
<pleia2> flocculant <3
<flocculant> pleia2: I knew you were there somewhere :p
<flocculant> though it of course depends on civs keeping them ...
<Unit193> ochosi: Danke.
<pleia2> Unit193: congratulations!
<pleia2> everyone else: condolences!
<flocculant> pleia2: ha ha ha 
<Unit193> Hah.
<flocculant> I don't think I need say I would have cancelled poll if actual votes was 12 (re mail to list)
<flocculant> but I would have ;)
<ochosi> flocculant: oh thanks, forgot to add that one
<flocculant> yw :)
<ochosi> pleia2: muaha, nice one. and not so far from the truth ;)
<nairwolf> hi everyone ;) And congratulations ochosi, bluesabre and knome ! 
<nairwolf> I hope you'll bring great things to Xubuntu for the next two years ;)
<nairwolf> And I will be happy to help you, as much as I can !
<flocculant> night all
<Unit193> G'night.
<nairwolf> good night ;)
<nairwolf> guys, I've apprently found something wrong in the login-menu (with the actual daily build), but I don't know if it's something related to a theme, or if it's related to the login manager (and I don't find which package is responsible for that). Could you help me please ? 
<ochosi> nairwolf: tricky question, what is wrong with the "login menu" (and what is that exactly in your opinion)
<nairwolf> Sorry, I had to upload my photo : http://imgur.com/a/OG8aJ
<nairwolf> This is what I have during the login menu. 
<ochosi> that's theme related
<ochosi> i thought i had that sorted out, maybe you're also not using the latest-latest version of greybird there
<nairwolf> let's me verify that
<ochosi> or are you using a different theme?
<nairwolf> I've just downloaded the actual daily build (31st August)
<nairwolf> so, greybird gtk theme is : 3.18.0+20160720.7b72fea.gtk320-1 (on launchpad)
<nairwolf> and on my computer....
<ochosi> yeah, weird version numbering stuff
<ochosi> i had hoped jbicha had cleaned that up already
<nairwolf> It's the same that is used on the daily build
<nairwolf> And I'm testing that on real hardware
<nairwolf> ochosi: this version of greybird theme is from 25th July. When you talked about the latest-latest version of greybird, do you refer to something newer ?
<nairwolf> That's weird, I do not have seen that few days ago. It may be something new. 
<ochosi> yeah, the version i refer to is younger
<ochosi> nairwolf: ^
<nairwolf> hum... how I'm supposed to know there is a younger version ? Because I don't see anything else than this page : https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/greybird-gtk-theme
<ochosi> there is a newer version, but i'm not sure it has been packaged and released to yakkety yet
<ochosi> maybe bluesabre or Unit193 can answer that
<ochosi> (sry, not really up to speed with the packaging state of Y atm)
<nairwolf> Oh, I think I got it : https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/tree/gtk3.20
<nairwolf> Is it these version ?
<nairwolf> And no it's released to yakkety, as you can see here : http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/20160831/yakkety-desktop-amd64.manifest
<Unit193> https://packages.qa.debian.org/g/greybird-gtk-theme.html - https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/greybird-gtk-theme that's what you got.
<nairwolf> the image 20160831 do not contain it
<ochosi> this is it actually https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/releases/tag/v3.20.0
<nairwolf> oh, yes ochosi you right. I clicked in the wrong link (branch instead of tags)
<nairwolf> That's a great thing you use github
<Unit193> ochosi: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/greybird-gtk-theme/+subscribe
<nairwolf> so, what is the advice ? Open a bug at the greybird-gtk-theme package on launchpad ?
<nairwolf> Unit193: do you think I could do anything to help for packaging or releasing ? If you want to use the last version for Yakkety
<nairwolf> I would love to know how these kind of things are done
<Unit193> Howdy.
<nairwolf> sorry, what does that mean ? 
<nairwolf> welcome ? 
<knome> "Hello."
<nairwolf> okay, but sorry, I don't understand the general meaning...
<nairwolf> anyway, I will report this bug on greybird-gtk-theme
<nairwolf> thank you ochosi to help me which package was reponsible
<ochosi> no worries
<bluesabre> evening all
<nairwolf> hello bluesabre ;)
<nairwolf> Oh, I can't report a bug on launchpad...
<nairwolf> no, that was just really really slow...
<nairwolf> congratulations for your election !
<bluesabre> knome, ochosi: congrats
<ochosi> hey bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey ochosi 
<knome> flocculant, https://code.launchpad.net/~knome/xubuntu-docs/council-changes
<knome> flocculant,diff to your stuff at http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~knome/xubuntu-docs/council-changes/revision/613
<knome> flocculant, (also read the commit message)
<knome> ochosi, bluesabre: what about my chair suggestion?
<ochosi> knome: +1
<ochosi> bluesabre: do you have a nice string sorting function in c/glib?
<bluesabre> knome, where?
<bluesabre> ochosi, as in, sort strings alphabetically?
<knome> bluesabre, --> 20:43  knome: bluesabre, ochosi: since the council is to set its own chair, i propose sean as he was the number one choice for the community in the vote
<knome> and heh, launchpad fail. it says i'm a council member since 2014-05-15. yeah, that's the date when i was a member of that team for the *first* time, but i haven't been a member the whole time since.
<bluesabre> knome, the purpose of the chair is primary point of contact?
<knome> bluesabre, that, and i guess the chair is also the final final decider if the council is silly enough not to be able to reach consensus.
<knome> mostly, the point of contact means nothing. you won't get many contacts...
<knome> and if you do, you can simply delegate to other council members if you are busy
<bluesabre> cool
<bluesabre> I'm not opposed to it
<knome> the whole primary point of contact -requirement comes from the ubuntu side, not us
<knome> ok, then let it be so
<bluesabre> ochosi, https://developer.gnome.org/glib/stable/glib-String-Utility-Functions.html#g-strcmp0 gets you started
<knome> ochosi, you're the owner, and you're the only one who can change owner. plz set bluesabre as the one
<ochosi> owner changed
<ochosi> hf owning the council bluesabre :)
 * bluesabre will try to not break it
<knome> it's funny
<knome> owning the team does not give you *any* additional permissions
<knome> compared to being an admin
<knome> ...except changing the owner
<knome> >__<
<pleia2> makes for a fun game of hot potato
<knome> haha
<pleia2> we talk about potatoes a lot
<nairwolf> Did you know this bug is still present on Yakkety ? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-screenshooter/+bug/1567556
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1567556 in xfce4-screenshooter (Ubuntu) "Upload to Imgur fails" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<knome> i also noticed there's something wrong on the council mugshot gallery
<knome> https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-council/+mugshots
<knome> can you spot the mistake?
<knome> (yes, ochosi's face isn't tilted in the same angle!)
<nairwolf> I don't remember if xfce4-screenshooter and imgur hosting worked on Xenial
<pleia2> knome: you ask a lot from a lego
<ochosi> pleia2: thanks for having my back here...
<pleia2> lol
<nairwolf> so, that's who you are ochosi.... Interesting ^^
<knome> pleia2, well i AM the sir ask-a-lot!
<knome> ochosi is sir lego-las
<knome> and bluesabre is the chair-iot
<bluesabre> lol
<nairwolf> so, two bug reports for me tonight. That's enough for me tonight. See you later, I'm gonna sleep ;)
<Unit193> nairwolf: I couldn't answer at the time, so I just ACK'd that you said something and that I wasn't ignoring you. :P
<Unit193> Why do you guys make so much backlog...
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> bluesabre: FWIW, I've not been putting backports in xfce-4.12 because I didn't want to try and support 'em for the full duration of Xenial. :P
<bluesabre> Unit193, that's definitely fine by me
#xubuntu-devel 2016-09-01
<flocculant> knome: ta
<flocculant> bluesabre: 3 visual bugs during install now \o/ thankfully only 1 is us :p
<flocculant> missing slideshow has been reported elsewhere 
<ochosi> also keep in mind that yakkety doesn't contain the latest greybird release...
<flocculant> ochosi: that might be the 1 - not sure though
<flocculant> bug 1617705
<ubottu> bug 1617705 in greybird-gtk-theme (Ubuntu) "Unstarted installation indicators show tiny amount of progress" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1617705
<flocculant> the other 2 are slideshow and skip button issue(s) last is probably some gtk3.20/ubiquity thing
<ochosi> oh right, yeah, that looks off
<ochosi> stupid ubiquity custom widgets...
<flocculant> :)
<ochosi> i'll have to look into the installer myself for that
<flocculant> have fun :p
<ochosi> "thank you"
<ochosi> :D
<flocculant> :D
<flocculant> I'll try not to find too much more ;)
<flocculant> bluesabre: might be good if you remember that "bluesabre to schedule next meeting" before we're on Final Beta week :p
 * flocculant thinks that now we have council with 3 people we should go back to the old way of running meetings
<flocculant> I bet Unit193 could agree with me :p
<Unit193> Ooooooh veeeery much I agree with flocculant.
<flocculant> see - I knew it \o/
<Unit193> Predictable, as always.
<flocculant> lol
<bluesabre> flocculant, indeed, was going to wait until the council results were finalized, and now they are :D
<knome> old way being what? :P
<flocculant> bluesabre: brave waiting for us to actually get something done ;)
<flocculant> knome: not having to wait months for someone to set a meeting :p
<knome> i do think that it's a fair way to split the chairing to all team leads
<flocculant> of course you do :)
<knome> maybe we can do something like a cycling chair, but if a meeting hasn't been held for X weeks, then the council will chair a meeting - after which we go back to the normal cycling chair
<flocculant> not that it'll affect me for a long long time now :D
<knome> well, i can see how not having meetings held can affect anybody
<flocculant> do you mean can't? 
<knome> no
<knome> i mean if we don't have meetings, it surely affects everybody
<flocculant> oic
<flocculant> guess so :)
<knome> at least theoretically
<knome> i very much think regular meetings are good
<flocculant> yea - even if it's just a touch base thing - I'd agree with that 
<knome> because bringing back people's thoughts to thing X makes them... think about thing X and possible start working on thing X
<knome> indeed
<knome> and one of my arguments for regular meetings is that when they ARE regular and often enough, they won't be like 3 hour meetings
<flocculant> ha ha 
<knome> because "finally we are back together, what about this and this and this too?"
<flocculant> the meeting cycling needs sorting out too - cos XPL/council/you 3 
<flocculant> knome: thought you merged my strat doc changes? 
<knome> no... still needs team verification as there are some changes that are not just wording
<knome> i'll send a mail about it soonish
<flocculant> aah okey doke
<flocculant> bbl
<knome> same here
<akxwi-dave> finally got the f**king Exchange server back up and working after 6 hours
<akxwi-dave> sry wrong channel
<ochosi> bluesabre: strcmp0 is fine, but you also need tolower stuff somwhow (haven't found the best way yet), otherwise the comparisons are not human-approved
<nairwolf> Hi everyone, I hope you're fine
<nairwolf> Unit193: I've read your message ;)
<knome> could somebody write a short blog article about the intel cursor bug SRU? i can help with formulating, but it would be nice to get somebody who has been following the process closely to get the basic stuff in
<pleia2> yeah
 * pleia2 drafts
<knome> thank you
<knome> oh also, we should start pointing to the release pages from the front page, not the release announcement
<knome> that way we don't have to worry about update the widget on every update
<flocculant> might be worth mentioning that while it is fixed for xenial - same issue appears to have now shown up on trusty
<knome> *about updating
<flocculant> and isn't covered by the sru
<knome> can mention, but i'm not sure how much work we will take to get it SRU'd to trusty; EOL soonish
<knome> (eg. if it takes another few months, meh)
<flocculant> well yea - I wasn't suggesting sru for trusty
<knome> nope
<flocculant> iirc bluesabre and I did discuss that a while back - but I couldn't confirm
<knome> aaand hmm.
<knome> we might need to flush some rewrite rules on xubuntu.org
<knome> i wonder how that's possible...
<knome> oh
<knome> there we go!
<knome> so
<knome> http://xubuntu.org/release/16-04/
<knome> every article with the release "16.04" (or technically, "16-04") will be appearing on that page now
<flocculant> nice :)
<knome> indeed!
<knome> well, they have been doing that previously
<knome> but we now have all kinds of other yummy stuff there as well
<flocculant> wily is still on http://xubuntu.org/help/ btw
<knome> hmm
<knome> i thoguht i removed
<knome> it
<knome> and thought
<knome> removed now
<flocculant> though it's gone from docs.x - pleia2 did that almost at the same time that I said we should lose it :)
<knome> or was it me?
 * knome shrugs
<knome> yeah, it might have been that.
<flocculant> don't think so 
<knome> either way, i remember removing it from somewhere
<flocculant> :)
 * flocculant reboots after gtk update ... 
<flocculant> once upon a time I used to reboot after kernel upgrades
<pleia2> ok, someone can beautify it http://xubuntu.org/?p=4107&preview=true
<pleia2> and publish
<knome> also
<flocculant> sigh
<knome> http://xubuntu.org/release/16-04/ is now updated with download and documentation links that disappear on EOL date
<knome> well, the day after...
<flocculant> got that stupid login to x.org fail again :(
<knome> pleia2, taking over your lock
<pleia2> knome: yeah, I'm out of it
<pleia2> wp is a bit aggressive :)
<flocculant> knome: let me read it before you publish :p
<knome> ok
<flocculant> ta 
<nairwolf> hi, if flocculant is right (intel cursor bug on Trusty), don't you think that could help users to publish a workaround somewhere in the website ? 
<flocculant> knome: just in case is all :)
<pleia2> nairwolf: the workaround is in all the release announcements...
<pleia2> and bug reports
<flocculant> nairwolf: perhaps it would help them to report it for trusty instead of adding to a bug report that's marked fix released
<pleia2> not sure how much more we can do
<flocculant> not that I'm saying we'd do anything - which is unlikely given the time scale
 * pleia2 nods
<nairwolf> I'm talking about the trusty version. I'm looking for the workaround in trusty pages actually
<pleia2> we don't really want to be encouraging people to use trusty
<nairwolf> https://xubuntu.org/release/14-04/
<nairwolf> I don't see any mention of that, if this bug is actually present on Trusty
<flocculant> nairwolf: you won't find it there
<nairwolf> Yeah, but some people might have their reason to stay on 14.04
<nairwolf> flocculant: where, please ?
<flocculant> I didn't say it was anywhere - I said you won't find it there
 * flocculant thinks that we should think about only supporting LTS to release of nextLTS.1
<nairwolf> pleia2: I know that's somewhere in bug reports. But normal users don't go to launchpad (I may wrong), and they start to search information in the official website. If an annoying bug like that is present, they would like to know if it will be fixed, or if it won't, they would like to have a workaround. That's all
<nairwolf> And I agree with flocculant about supporting LTS to release of next LTS.1
<flocculant> nairwolf: if we started putting things like that on x.org - we would need a fulltime page writer
<pleia2> LTS.1 has been out for over a month
<pleia2> but a 2ish release cycle isn't really an option ;)
<pleia2> er, support
<nairwolf> flocculant: I could help ;)
<flocculant> pleia2: then we should support it and sru the intel thing (if it's an issue) in the same way it was for xenial
<nairwolf> Now, where users can see bugs known ? On the release announcement ? https://xubuntu.org/news/xubuntu-16-04-1-release/
<pleia2> flocculant: probably so, but I'm not the one who has to do the work, easy for me to say :)
<flocculant> pleia2: ditto :)
<pleia2> nairwolf: yes, under known issues
<nairwolf> Do you think that would be great to add more information on this page : https://xubuntu.org/release/16-04/
<pleia2> no, it changes too much as we fix things
<flocculant> knome: biab
<nairwolf> I could help by providing a draft if you want
<pleia2> it's not just a once off :) we need to keep it updated for every bug fix that comes out
<pleia2> I can't really commit the time to staying on top of that
<pleia2> the only reason we're doing a blog post about this fix is that it's pretty major and people complain a lot
<nairwolf> okay, okay, I'm a newbie here. 
<pleia2> I do appreciate the ideas
<nairwolf> my first impression was it doesn't need so much job, but maybe I'm wrong. 
 * flocculant washes screen - just imagined bluesabre's face reading pleia2 and flocculant talking about sru's :p
<pleia2> lol
<nairwolf> I was looking for something to do to help
<nairwolf> anyway, I need to go right now, I will be back later
<flocculant> nairwolf: one job is never too much - but this one job would be a never ending cycle of words :)
<flocculant> nairwolf: you are helping - you just haven't realised it yet ;)
<flocculant> really biab now
<nairwolf> flocculant: The aim isn't to summarize ALL known bugs, and ALL bug fixes, but the most important. The ones about xubuntu specific package for example. 
<nairwolf> see you later
<nairwolf> flocculant: if you have time, can you confirm this bug on Yakkety ? #1567556
<nairwolf> And I've seen this bug yesterday, but apparently, it will be fixed in the next version of greybird-gtk-theme : #1619059
<fg01> Hi, Is some working on this https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12763- Incorrect behavior of [Space] keyboard key in Thunar file-list?
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 12763 in general "Incorrect behavior of [Space] keyboard key in Thunar file-list" [Normal,New]
<knome> sorry, was on phone
 * knome releases lock
<knome> bbabl
<flocculant> knome pleia2 - looking at the intel bug - there are 2 mentions of trusty there - and one of those is me saying I can't confirm it
<flocculant> other 'trusty' mentions actually seem to be elementary
<flocculant> oh hang on
<flocculant> I'll look for 14.04 as well :p
<flocculant> add 2 more 
<pleia2> I haven't confirmed it either
<pleia2> might drop from the post and just let people ask
<flocculant> I did drop it - with my hat on :p
<pleia2> ty
<flocculant> if people want to ask - we can tell them it needs reporting properly from trusty 
<flocculant> not piggybacked on a fixed xenial bug
 * pleia2 nods
<flocculant> I can publish - checked it for stranglish now too
<knome> publish is ok, but please make sure it has the 16.04 release term
<flocculant> knome: mm that's new on me - tick the 16.04 release box?
<knome> yep
<knome> same for every article that's related to releases
<knome> gets stuff linked on the release page automatically
<flocculant> right - just not seen it yet :)
<knome> yup, no worries
<knome> i've been ticking them here and there
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> published
<knome> thanks
<knome> aaand as you can see: http://xubuntu.org/release/16-04/
<flocculant> yup - was just looking :p
<knome> i think this is working great now
<flocculant> looks to be 
<knome> with all the press stuff, links and screenshots too
<flocculant> yea - nice one for sure :)
<knome> now the next thing is to consider the sidebar in those pages
<flocculant> I assume you saw coversation re trusty above 
<knome> i don't think this is the one we want to use any more
<knome> yes i did
<nairwolf> flocculant: do you need I test if the intel bug is present with Trusty ?
<nairwolf> I have real hardware for that
<knome> which is why i said somebody who has been following should be involved with the article :)
<flocculant> :)
<pleia2> knome: good to social media it?
<flocculant> nairwolf: YOU CAN IF YOU LIKE, NEEDS TO BE REPORTED THOUGH 
<flocculant> oops
<knome> pleia2, yep - and i can tweet
<flocculant> knome: I see what you mean - sidebar looks a bit odd in the context of 'just xenial stuff'
<knome> yep
<knome> it was much better when we only had the article stuff
<knome> then that page was just one of the archive pages
<nairwolf> okay, I'm downloading Xubuntu 14.04
<nairwolf> I'll tell you later
<flocculant> nairwolf: don't expect lots of clamouring on it - we're not sure we'll do anything 
<flocculant> that's down to tech 
<flocculant> who's going to be so happy that I'll be using xenial for 6 months soon :p
<nairwolf> flocculant: Yes, of course, I understand
<nairwolf> It's just to verify by someone else
<flocculant> knome: just one point re the 16.04 'page' I wonder if we need the blurb between EOL date and Official Links? 
<flocculant> similarly for 14.04
<knome> i think yeah - it's a nice way to summarize the release
<flocculant> not sure I'd pick gnome software ;)
<knome> feel free to improve it
<flocculant> not that bothered - was just comment :)
<knome> a few days ago it said 16.04 is the current development release ;)
<flocculant> heh
<flocculant> I'll say again that it's nice to see it all in one place though 
<knome> indeed
<knome> booting up desktop...
<pleia2> knome: and should it be on the front page?
<nairwolf> flocculant: had you time to check my bug report ?
<flocculant> nairwolf: yea sorry - forgot to say, as ochosi said login is greybird everyone will see it in yakkety atm, the fix will land at some point
<flocculant> can't confirm the imgur bug - works fine here
<flocculant> nairwolf: there are other greybird issues as well 
<nairwolf> You can't confirm the imgur bug ? this is weird, because I've tested it twice from my test computer, and from my actual computer. 
<nairwolf> and in both case, I couldn't upload to imgur
<nairwolf> which other issue ? 
<flocculant> ok so perhaps it's something to do with isp's rather than xfce
<nairwolf> ochosi said there will be soon a new version. 
<flocculant> input box outline(s) some are thick, some are thin, progress indicators during install
<nairwolf> I can go on imgur.com with the normal way (browser). I should check how the upload is done
<nairwolf> oh,this bug, I've seen your report. Badly, I didn't pay attention to that yesterday
<flocculant> nairwolf: well all I can do is try using it - and it works fine for me
<flocculant> such is the way of bugs - some people see them some don't - at which point it's got to be something external influencing 
<flocculant> could be anything, hardware for example 
<flocculant> anyway - time for me to wander 
<nairwolf> that's work today, on my actual computer
<nairwolf> so I suppose you right, that was something related to isp
<flocculant> could be - don't take my word for it there :)
<nairwolf> it's funny to say that because I've tested twice at two times differently, and between them, I've uploaded a picture on imgur in the classic way (save picture then upload with browser)
<nairwolf> I should retest that on the test computer
<nairwolf> someone complain about the intel bug on 14.04
<nairwolf> on facebook
<flocculant> when it's on launchpad I'll read it
<nairwolf> which "it" ? 
<flocculant> people complaining about intel in 14.04
<flocculant> we certainly can't do anything without that
<flocculant> and re what I said (and pleia2) above 
<nairwolf> okay, so the best answer is to share them the workaround or to tell them to upgrade, right ? 
<flocculant> does the workround work? 
<flocculant> don't tell people to upgrade - they'll have to do that eventually - but they might have reason to be using 14.04
<flocculant> and finally - anyone who's talking about elementary based on 14.04 I have no interest in at all
<nairwolf> I agree with elementary
<nairwolf> I'm talking about one guy at facebook, which seemed to talk about xubuntu
<nairwolf> but, yeah, maybe we'll see taht on launchpad also
<flocculant> nairwolf: if you want to test this issue properly I would install 14.04, test for issue, upgrade to 14.05, test for issue, reinstall 14.04, upgrade to new hwe then test again
<flocculant> one sensible report I saw said it was hwe upgrade issue
<flocculant> with that - day done - night all :)
<nairwolf> you mean, from 14.04.0 to upgrade to 14.04.5 ?
<nairwolf> okay, maybe I'll do that this week-end. 
<nairwolf> good night flocculant !
<bluesabre> ochosi, https://developer.gnome.org/glib/stable/glib-String-Utility-Functions.html#g-strncasecmp gives a bit of detail on sorting without case
<knome> pleia2, no, we don't push news items to front page...
<pleia2> yeah, just curious :)
<knome> basically my idea was/is to replace the link to the release announcement with a link to the release page
<knome> that should serve users better too
<knome> while allowing a different sidebar for the release pages, i kind of got involved with a huge revamp of the sites css >__<
<knome> it's so much sleeker already
<knome> ...but there are a few things that aren't working yet
#xubuntu-devel 2016-09-02
<knome> so far, 34.3 kB --> 27.7 kB
<flocculant> ochosi: nairwolf was talking about issues at the login window the other day with you, you (Ithink) said it was to do with greybird, if you set up lightdm to use numix instead the same 'bar' issue is there - just slightly different - http://i.imgur.com/juSVapW.png
<flocculant> so I'm confused how it's greybird there :)
<fg01> Hi, I'd like to ask you How Can I build Thunar?
<Unit193> Sure, why not?  You can either rebuild the package or just compile from git.  Easiest way to get the build deps is  sudo apt-get build-dep thunar
<fg01> I found this https://forum.xfce.org/viewtopic.php?id=9680 May it be possible?
<astraljava> fg01: Yes, the instructions on that page should work. However, there are a few unneeded steps (mainly the branching in git) that you can omit in case you're not planning on developing it on your own.
<fg01> astraljava: Thank you. But if I'll make some modifies to the code, Can I build it and use it?
<knome> no, you'll need a certificate from microsoft
<flocculant> knome: if you're holding changes to cont for team verification - I will try to make sure any changes to qa stuff are done this weekend, so we don't have to keep updating live
<knome> flocculant, wfm, but it isn't a lot of work to update production either
<pleia2> oh hm, is anyone coming out to UbuCon EU in November?
<nairwolf> hi pleia2, I don't think so
<nairwolf> and you ?
<pleia2> I am
<nairwolf> from the US, right ?
<pleia2> yep
<nairwolf> that's a looong trip !
<pleia2> I do it all the time :)
<nairwolf> that's nice, I've never been in a UbuCon, maybe I should do it
<flocculant> that's cool - civs sends you a list of fail e-mail addresses
<zleap> hi
<zleap> i was having an issue with xubumtu 16.04 and networking in that after connecting the network icon (up down arrow) on the panel vanished
<zleap> i did some digging with dmesg and it seems something is causing the kernel or that module to crash
<zleap> http://zleap.net/netbook-network-error/
<zleap> i can re-install anyway but if that output is useful in case others are reporting then great if it helps work out what is going on 
<nairwolf> flocculant: what is civ ?
<knome> pleia2, you are picking the wrong european countries :)
<pleia2> I didn't pick it!
<knome> (:
<flocculant> nairwolf: civs is what people can use to run polls
<nairwolf> ok
<knome>  hooray! http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-website/xubuntu-website/theme/revision/117
<krytarik> knome: Notice the repetition between the new lines 246 and 266 in the package selection part?  The intention of the second one was different from the first before. - http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~knome/xubuntu-docs/council-changes/revision/613?remember=609&compare_revid=609#contributor-docs/C/strategy-document.xml
<knome> i do...
<knome> let me check the source
<knome> so maybe we could simply drop the first one, or do you suggest something else?
<knome> eg. do we want to emphasize that we can override our own rules?
<krytarik> Maybe just shorten it like this?: "The above guidelines can be omitted when there are extensive benefits to seeding the package."
<knome> i would probably add "with an approval from the council" or sth, but yes, you're right
<knome> i'll go change it
<krytarik> Cool.
<knome> thanks for noticing
<krytarik> Sure.
<knome> and email sent
#xubuntu-devel 2016-09-03
<flocculant> knome: looked but not changing anything else 
<flocculant> another installation bug - that someone else can worry about
<Unit193> \o/
<flocculant> don't install from the try/install if you want something other than English :p
<Unit193> Who would want that?
<flocculant> no idea - they should just learn english of course :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: https://mail.xfce.org/pipermail/xfce4-dev/2016-September/031734.html :P
<knome> flocculant, oki
<flocculant> bluesabre: you seen the recent comments on xfce 12264
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 12264 in core "Crash when renaming single file in folder" [Major,New] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12264
<flocculant> ?
<bluesabre> flocculant, haven't seen much of anything, my internet has become so unstable all I see is a dinosaur in chrome
<flocculant> so many patches I've no idea what state we're in for thunar
<flocculant> bluesabre: oh dear :(
<bluesabre> seemingly, I have some sort of something now again
<flocculant> heh
<bluesabre> so good morning :)
<flocculant> good morning bluesabre :)
<knome> flocculant, bluesabre: any idea for the person in #x?
<flocculant> knome: not even in channel
<knome> oh.
<knome> nvm then
<flocculant> am now
<knome> bluesabre? :P
<knome> asking about boot stuff, "no boot device found"
<knome> installed from usb
<flocculant> oh right
<knome> can't see the boot loader apparently
<knome> if you want, i can paste you the whole discussion
<flocculant> mmm - not sure - though often those issues appear to be some sort of uefi chicanery
<flocculant> you can - not sure I could help though
<knome> http://paste.ubuntu.com/23127539/
<flocculant> rading
<bluesabre> flocculant, basically "no"
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> oh, it was knome that asked
<bluesabre> knome, basically "no"
<flocculant> ha ha 
#xubuntu-devel 2016-09-04
<Unit193> ochosi: Uh, never bumped the artwork for 16.10? :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: ...Trust your ability to edit xml correctly all the time?  If not, we can add  find -name *.xml | xargs xmllint --noout  to the build rules for x-d-s...
<nairwolf> hi flocculant, I've read logs from yesterday
<nairwolf> something doesn't work if you install with another langage than English ?
<akxwi-dave> i've set todays 386 iso for a rebuild... only yesterdays on the the tracker.. looks like loads if errors on thoday build log.
<flocculant> nairwolf: false alarm
<nairwolf> oh, that's great ;)
<Unit193> mugshot 0.3.1-1 uploaded by Jackson...
<nairwolf> Unit193: where do you see that ?
<Unit193> nairwolf: That's in Debian, you can tell by the version.
<Unit193> !info mugshot yakkety
<ubottu> mugshot (source: mugshot): lightweight user-configuration application. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.3.1-0ubuntu1 (yakkety), package size 68 kB, installed size 730 kB
<nairwolf> ah, okay ;)
<Unit193> But, we're interested, I think.  Nobody told me otherwise.
<nairwolf> I have, now, two questions : 1. Do you watch regurly debian package ? Is it a good practice ? 2. How are you able to say, it's a different version from the version on yakkety 0.3.1-0ubuntu1
<nairwolf> I understand that the first three numbers are specific to the software 0.3.1
<nairwolf> and -1 is for Debian, and 0ubuntu1 for Ubuntu
<nairwolf> I'm not really familiar with Debian, should am I ?
<nairwolf> (in order to help better for Xubuntu, and being more aware of what's going on)
<Unit193> I don't see all packages uploaded or bugs opened/closed, but certainly a lot.
<nairwolf> okay, okay ;)
<nairwolf> I'm just seeing that : https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=mugshot&searchon=names&suite=all&section=all
<nairwolf> I should take a look on Debian
<Unit193> I'm not sure what answer you're looking for.
<nairwolf> Could you give me the link where you see mugshot updated ? 
<nairwolf> I'm looking for that, please
<Unit193> Uhh, https://packages.qa.debian.org/m/mugshot/news/20160904T193225Z.html ?
<nairwolf> hum, ok ;)
<nairwolf> thank you ;)
<nairwolf> I should read source code of python package used on xubuntu
<Unit193> ochosi: terminal PPA'd in staging.
#xubuntu-devel 2017-08-28
<flexiondotorg> bluesabre flocculant valorie Are Xubuntu opting in for 17.10 Beta1? If so please update the wiki - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtfulAardvark/Beta1
<knome> valorie? o.O
<flexiondotorg> knome copy pasta typo :-)
<knome> mmm. pasta
<flocculant> bluesabre: what say you - I'm rather ambivalent
<flocculant> akxwi-dave ^^
<flocculant> ftr I'll not be about much for it
<bluesabre> flocculant, flexiondotorg: Yes, I believe that we should participate in beta 1
<bluesabre> if nothing more than as a spot check to make sure we haven't had any breakage this cycle
<ochosi> bluesabre: nice splash you made there on g+ :)
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> ochosi: like to give folks something to look forward to
<ochosi> yup, nice work on that
<bluesabre> flocculant, ochosi, Unit193: should be able to launch a player more than once now, https://git.xfce.org/panel-plugins/xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin/
#xubuntu-devel 2017-08-29
<Luong> hi all
<Luong> anyone available?
<bluesabre> I always worry about those that are in that much of a hurry
<flocculant> bluesabre: love to be able to say I can launch players more than once ... but I can't ;)
<flocculant> obviously using 17.10 and a bunch of ppa's here :)
<flocculant> also a bit confused as to version number - doesn't appear to have changed http://i.imgur.com/B9wuzYa.png
<Unit193> Restarted panel after compiling?
<flocculant> rebooted actually
<flocculant> I assumed I was grabbing that ^^ and not Sean's fork version
<bluesabre> flocculant: using the new location? https://git.xfce.org/panel-plugins/xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin/
<bluesabre> the fork has been merged
<flocculant> bluesabre: yea - the one you linked at silly o'clock :)
<bluesabre> flocculant: and if you go to the plugin settings, there's a "Media Players" section there as well now (just to confirm) https://i.imgur.com/8E5dN3I.png
<flocculant> not sure what's going on now - I uninstalled - removed from panel - apparently all that locate could find was git folder and some .po's - but I could still add it to the panel
<flocculant> nope - not seeing that 
<flocculant> which is good - means it's just me broken :D
<flocculant> again ...
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> ./autogen.sh --prefix=/usr
<flocculant> nope 
<bluesabre> weiiiiiiiiiiiird
<flocculant> not too much of a bother though 
<flocculant> yea 
<flocculant> but I've all manner of random xfce git things installed - with whatever you and Unit193 have chucked at ppa's here ;)
<bluesabre> anyhoo, back to bed for me... I'll respond to the b1 mail when I wake back up, I think it'd be good for us to participate
<flocculant> bluesabre: while we're both here at the same time - I'll not be about much for that 
<flocculant> sleep well
<bluesabre> flocculant: that's fine, I can make myself available
<flocculant> ok cheers
<Unit193> flocculant: Nooooo, I don't usually push git snapshots! (Just xfwm4...)  And heh, was going to ask what he's doing up.
<flocculant> :)
<akxwi-dave> Morning guys...   sorry t'interweb has been down all weekend.. a drunk driver decided to crash into the telecoms cabinet on our street..    my thoughts are same as bluesabre  for beta 1.. Downloading as we speak to start  testing..
<ochosi> bluesabre: could you add a check whether volumed is running in the config dialog of pa-plugin and tell the user that there are two "conflicting" services?
<flexiondotorg> bluesabre flocculant As you have seen the release team added Xubuntu to the 17.10 Beta 1 testing tracker.
<flocculant> flexiondotorg: ta - new name akxwi-dave is also xubuntu qa 
<flexiondotorg> flocculant Thanks.
<flexiondotorg> Hello akxwi-dave :-)
<akxwi-dave> hi flexiondotorg  and flocculant 
<akxwi-dave> Critical bug for i386
<akxwi-dave> bug 1713701
<ubottu> bug 1713701 in gnome-software (Ubuntu) "Gnome Software fails to run on Xubuntu 17.10 Beta 1 i386" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1713701
<flocculant> hah
<flocculant> ditch that \o/
<akxwi-dave> lol knew you would say that... :-)
<flocculant> :D
<flocculant> bluesabre: well I'm lost - cleared all the plugin out - checked and no pa-plugin stuff anywhere, grabbed it from  git://git.xfce.org/panel-plugins/xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin
<flocculant>  and it still gives me old stuff
<flocculant> flexiondotorg: we both kind of do all the stuffs but I'm more Xfce/Xubuntu and Dave is more Xubuntu/Xfce
<flexiondotorg> Thanks for the background.
<flocculant> np
<flocculant> though I tend to be more about on irc - noisy me :D
<akxwi-dave> i'm there, but by time i go to say anything flocculant  has beat me to it..  ;-)
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: looks like bug is a dupe on 32bit https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-software/+bug/1713344
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1713344 in gnome-software (Ubuntu) "gnome-software core dump" [Undecided,New]
<akxwi-dave>  damn that ubuntu-bug tool, it really should find these dupes before they are made
<flocculant> yea
<flocculant> having to cli these damn vm's
<akxwi-dave> ouch... still not found out whats wrong?
<flocculant> nope 
<flocculant> pointed jbicha at the 32bit seg fault
<akxwi-dave> cheers
<flocculant> need to try and work out how to better resolution from cli - but at least I can install on it
<flexiondotorg> akxwi-dave Where will the Xubuntu 17.10 Beta 1 release notes be published?
<akxwi-dave> flexiondotorg:  Hi you are better asking knome about that.. he usually deal with that sode of thing.. usually on the website or mailing list..
<flexiondotorg> akxwi-dave ack
<flocculant> hah - in what reality is that then :p
<flocculant> flexiondotorg: it will be at https://wiki.xubuntu.org/releases/17.10/release-notes
<flocculant> we've not been differentiating lately on release notes - that will eventually not be a draft release note
<flexiondotorg> flocculant Thanks.
<bluesabre> evening all
<Unit193> Heya, bluesabre.
<bluesabre> Hi Unit193
<Unit193> bluesabre: sn-plug still in NEW, x-d-s still un-uploaded.
<Unit193> I'm sure you saw gtk+3.0 fixed the regression in Ubuntu and Debian, so end of status update.
<Unit193> GNOME 786029 was fixed upstream too! \o/
<ubottu> Gnome bug 786029 in Widget: Other "clicking on gtk-slider makes the parent disappear" [Major,Resolved: fixed] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=786029
<bluesabre> Great!
#xubuntu-devel 2017-08-30
<bluesabre> Unit193: will probably try to get x-d-s in today or tomorrow
<Unit193> If there's no additions, I mean I could "sponsor" it for you.
<Unit193> I'd like to help any way I can.
<bluesabre> I don't imagine that there are
<bluesabre> Unit193: Feel free to go ahead and upload
<bluesabre> The onboard defaults are quite terrible :D
<Unit193> Truth, but alas I don't use it.
<Unit193> E: xubuntu-default-settings: python-script-but-no-python-dep usr/share/xubuntu/templates/xdg-xubuntu-templates
<Unit193> All the freedesktop.org spec links are dead. :D
<bluesabre> oh noooo
<Unit193> I may have changed other things. :>
<Unit193> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-default-settings/trunk/changes
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: [trunk] r637 Run wrap-and-sort -s (by Unit 193)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: [trunk] r638 * d/control, d/copyright, etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/compton.conf,... (by Unit 193)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: [trunk] r639 Bump Standards-Version to 4.1.0. (by Unit 193)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: [trunk] r640 Release 17.10.0. (by Unit 193)
<bluesabre> Unit193 is quite handy
<Unit193> \o/
<krytarik> Unit193: "Vcs-Browser: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-default-settings/trunk/" gets you to the '/changes' though.
<Unit193> I'm aware.
<Unit193> krytarik: That's where the default goes to, so may as well use it.  Seen the same in Debian packages.
<Unit193> (And I'd presume Debian people use those fields more than Ubuntu.)
<bluesabre> Trying to file an ubiquity bug, but ubiquity keeps restarting before the report is complete :(
<bluesabre> or maybe it's lightdm restarting
<Unit193> syslog should have error output, and /var/log/installer/*
<bluesabre> the whole vm freezes for a few minutes before restarting
<bluesabre> round 2
<bluesabre> Apparently not going to happen this time :\
<Unit193> Ubiquity is a bit...
<bluesabre> "majestic"
<bluesabre> Unable to reproduce :(
<bluesabre> x-d-s already made it in, saw it in my iso testing :D
<bluesabre> There's more changes in artful than I thought, http://paste.ubuntu.com/25429394/
<bluesabre> (though mostly minor)
<bluesabre> done testing for now, night all
<AceHW> Hey
<AceHW> Anybody there?
<Unit193> Not at 4am. :P
<AceHW> Ok. Have a nice day/night
<Unit193> (Wrong channel.)
<AceHW> Why is xubuntu bigger than a CD when it's so close that it should be able to shave off just enough to fit?
<knome> because there simply isn't a way to fit it
<AceHW> Isn't there?
<knome> it's been discussed in length before
<AceHW> I'd like to know how puppy xenial is much smaller than a CD
<knome> probably because it doesn't include nearly as much stuff as xubuntu?
<knome> and i'd imagine it downloads most of the packages from the internet during installation
<AceHW> it's pretty useful offline
<knome> the xubuntu ISO isn't
<AceHW> I only use it offline
<AceHW> Ok
<knome> err, useless :P
<knome> anyway... feel free to try it yourself.
<knome> but i'll tell you chances are you will fail
<knome> again, this has been discussed in length before
<AceHW> ok
<Unit193> Dropping fonts-noto-cjk or whatever would lose about 100MB uncompressed. :P
<AceHW> Thanks. See ya.
<AceHW> What's that do?
<knome> add support to chinese etc. languages for the noto font
<knome> cjk as in chinese, japanese, korean, but i'm not sure if it actually does more than that
<knome> we'd still be around 400MB too large.
<AceHW> it's been a while since I looked at xubuntu size
<Unit193> Dropping LO would likely do it. :P
<knome> it's around 1.2GB
<Unit193> knome: Just drop all the langpacks and -cjk, etc.  That'd likely help a bit! ;)
<knome> with the ISO size, not appealing to a bigger variety of users :P
<knome> but meh, yeah, the languages
<knome> not that i think we are going to fit on a CD anyway, but maybe we could do without those
<knome> without the fonts not so sure
<AceHW> My apologies. I'll talk to Lubuntu ppl. It seems more likely to get it to fit on a CD
<knome> you can use the minimal ISO if you want to fit on a cd...
<AceHW> I need offline
<knome> pretty sure they have discussed it as well
<Unit193> They're already using --no-install-recommends, which tends to break stuff.
<knome> and fitting on a CD is unlikely being the primary goal of any distro
<knome> it'd be nice but...
<AceHW> I talked to a lubuntu guy. Apparently it is for the new guy.
<AceHW> If your distro is meant to be usable on the oldest comps that are still usable, CD size is King.
<knome> heh.
<knome> okay, sure
<Unit193> And Xubuntu isn't aiming for that.  Oldest thing I run it on is 2004, I wouldn't aim lower than that.
<knome> define usable...
<knome> and plop
<knome> and the minimal CD...
<knome> i know he said he needs offline but...
<knome> i guess he should stick with puppy xenial :P
<Unit193> Plop is a workaround, mini isn't fun (sloooow.)
<knome> everything is a workaround :P
<Unit193> No?
<knome> :P
<Unit193> Anywho, still wouldn't aim lower than '04.
<knome> i wouldn't aim lower than 2017 >__<
<knome> but yes... that's not the official statement
<knome> that said, i still want to use xubuntu...
<bluesabre> iirc, Even dropping LO wouldn't do it... I think we picked up LO because we were already over and it was nice to have
<flexiondotorg> akxwi-dave Just checking in to see how testing is going for 17.10 Beta 1? 
<akxwi-dave> flexiondotorg:  not too bad at moment.. a few niggling bugs, but nothing that will kill it..  apartf rom the Gnome Software bug on  i386, which is a killer... but I see that a fix has been donefor that
<flocculant> and obviously the everpresent no-one cares about non_US keymaps when installing encrypt 
 * flocculant fails an encrypt install
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: will have a bit of time tonight - will catch up the release note
<flocculant> bluesabre's paste of changes helps :D
<bluesabre> yay
<flocculant> ha ha 
<akxwi-dave> flocculant: LOL .. thats why when testing the encryt i just use numbers and letters.. that way it works.. :-)
<flocculant> going to have to deal with vbox as well :(
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: lol - should still fail it :D
<bluesabre> I couldn't get the iso to boot with kvm, had to go back to vbox
<bluesabre> I feel like we switch back and forth with virt each cycle
<flocculant> I can boot them from command line 
<flocculant> kvm -m 2048 -cdrom /mnt/Data/iso/Xubuntu/17.10/artful-desktop-amd64.iso
<flocculant> boots live only
<flocculant> sudo kvm -m 2048 -boot menu=on  -cdrom /mnt/Data/iso/Xubuntu/17.10/artful-desktop-amd64.iso -drive file=/mnt/Data/Virtual\ Machines\ -\ KVM/xub_64.qcow2
<flocculant> boots to a menu and you can install - obviously paths ...
<flocculant> bluesabre: not sure what's up with kvm currently - it just stopped working recently - up to now it's been fine, but yea vm is a pita regularly
<akxwi-dave> flocculant: true.. to be honest forgot all about that error..
<flocculant> caught up with the 3 I've managed to do
<akxwi-dave> I'm lucky .. i can blame the wife for my KVM working..   She wont touch windows now.. she'll only use xubuntu... but she has an annoying habit of cancelling the updater when it pops up.., so my desktop hasn't had any updates for a few weeks.. and i'm relegated to the laptop
<flocculant> lol - not sure when it died tbh - and not had the time nor inclination to find someone to talk to about it 
<flocculant> bluesabre: " < slangasek> heads up to those participating in beta1, ifupdown priority is being dropped now from important to optional,   dkettman   completing the netplan transition for 17.10; that means any respins are going to have ifupdown dropped, and    Dmitrii-~ use network-manager + networkd exclusively      
<flocculant> if you would like a respin before beta-1 to get extra testing of this scenario, feel free (just give it ~30m   dpb1       for the publisher before triggering)
<flocculant> if so - you can respin tonight :)
<flocculant> and then test it :D
<bluesabre> strange timing on that
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> sorry about the random nicks in the copy - stupid irssi ;)
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> I know little about this move, not sure if we need to do anything on our side to make sure networking still works
<bluesabre> I'm assuming not
<flocculant> I am definitely not the person to comment, any network issues I've had have all been pebkac
<Unit193> On desktops, in theory none at all.
<flocculant> thanks Unit193 
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: unlikely to get to the rel note
<flocculant> manana
<bluesabre> evening all
<bluesabre> Unit193, akxwi-dave, flocculant... so, think we should respin or leave it? Looks like only lubuntu has respun this one
<ochosi> evening bluesabre 
<bluesabre> evening ochosi
<ochosi> testig pa-plugin again wrt launching players
<bluesabre> cool
<bluesabre> Should work 100% now
<ochosi> indeed, nice work!
<ochosi> the plugin leaves little to be desired now tbh
<ochosi> apart from maybe the "blocking-audio" feature
<ochosi> not sure how hard that is to implement
<bluesabre> ochosi: as in the coloring of the icon?
<ochosi> yup
<bluesabre> probably not *too* hard, but haven't looked into it at all
<ochosi> yeah, i would suppose so
<ochosi> it's just nice because it shows you something *would* be playing
<ochosi> guess i've just grown used to it...
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> regarding the notification plugin, any input on whether to merge it into notifyd or keep it in a separate repo? (both from a packager's and a dev's pov)
<bluesabre> Haven't actually looked at it, but can see value in having a way to easily get back to notification settings and re-enabling them
<ochosi> you mean toggle DND mode?
<ochosi> i'm mostly referring to whether to keep the source :)
<ochosi> (DND mode can already be toggled from the plugin)
<bluesabre> I think it makes sense to keep them together
<ochosi> hmmhm
<ochosi> not sure yet whether i'll find a meaningful way to merge in the plugin with its history
<ochosi> already tried that and it sorta works...
<Unit193> bluesabre: How'd I get lumped in with that question? :3
<ochosi> anyway, time to get some rest
<ochosi> night all!
<bluesabre> nighty ochosi 
<bluesabre> Unit193, you're the only one that knows anything about it :D
<Unit193> In that case, I wouldn't respin just for that, tbh.
<bluesabre> (Thought the same)
#xubuntu-devel 2017-08-31
<Unit193> queuebot:#ubuntu-release: New: accepted xfce4-statusnotifier-plugin
<Unit193> ninetls: What's https://git.xfce.org/panel-plugins/xfce4-statusnotifier-plugin/tree/COPYING.LIB for?
<Unit193> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1709733/comments/4
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1709733 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] xfce4-statusnotifier-plugin" [Wishlist,Fix committed]
<ochosi> nice!
<Unit193> Unpatched version.
<ninetls> Unit193: indicator-plugin had id too
<ninetls> I'm not a lawyer!
<ninetls> should I remove it?
<Unit193> Looks like it, did a grep and no lgpl.
<flexiondotorg> bluesabre: Who can mark the Xubuntu images ready? 
<Unit193> You just pinged him.  Nearly 4am his time.
<flexiondotorg> Thanks Unit193 
<Unit193> He may be on at or around 6am.
<ninetls> Unit193: ok, removed the file
<Unit193> ninetls: Thanks!
<bluesabre> morning all
<bluesabre> flocculant, akxwi-dave, flexiondotorg: marked as ready
<flexiondotorg> bluesabre: Thanks. 
<Unit193> [06:06:54] < bluesabre> morning all
<Unit193> bluesabre: That is, quite enjoy your timing!
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> bluesabre: So sn-plugin is fully in, but it's not entirely the one we want.  I'm not sure if it'd be better/safer to patch or wait for a release.
<bluesabre> Unit193: we'll need to ping somebody to update the packageset so we're able to upload
<bluesabre> Maybe ninetls will have a new release by then
<Unit193> He's waiting for Skunnyk to fix something.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Already added to xubuntu.artful/supported.
<bluesabre> Do we need to upload a new meta for that to refresh http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/packagesets/artful/xubuntu ?
<flexiondotorg> Do you guys have IRC contacts for the Ubuntu Studio release team? 
<Unit193> sakrecoer, krytarik: â
<flexiondotorg> I've emailed Ross, but he's not been on IRC. 
<flexiondotorg> Thanks.
<ninetls> bluesabre: I'm waiting for Skunnyk to fix tx first
<ninetls> (waiting for 2 months, meh)
<ninetls> for sn-plugin tx sync is broken and requires a modification of tx script
<ninetls> without this any new translations will break building
<bluesabre> Gotcha
<Unit193> And nin has been pinging, not his fault.
<bluesabre> yup
<ninetls> for some reason a new tx version is used for sn-plugin and sample plugin
<ninetls> so script requires updating
<ninetls> this version can't be changed and just displayed on tx project settings page
<Unit193> bluesabre: No changes to meta.
<flocculant> bluesabre: cheers
<flocculant> bluesabre: can we not just have -synaptics installed for us? bug 1686081 
<ubottu> bug 1686081 in xorg (Ubuntu) "If -synaptics is installed, GNOME Mouse & Touchpad Settings doesn't work" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1686081
<flocculant> we're unlikely to care if some gnome settings doesn't work I guess
<bluesabre> flocculant: here it seems like we might prefer to have it https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bug/1686081/comments/2
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1686081 in xorg (Ubuntu) "If -synaptics is installed, GNOME Mouse & Touchpad Settings doesn't work" [High,Confirmed]
<bluesabre> flocculant: then again, maybe we just need to enable libinput support on xfce4-settings
<flocculant> is that not just the other way of saying what I said :D
<flocculant> or that indeed - anyway - brought it up :)
<bluesabre> oh
<bluesabre> I misread the order of not/have/just
<flocculant> I assume it's wakey wakey time for you there :)
<bluesabre> More or less
<bluesabre> Sat down
<flocculant> if it isn't - run with it :p
 * bluesabre groggily runs
<flocculant> ha 
<flocculant> I guess realistically the best long term optioon would be enable libinput support 
<flocculant> at least for 18.04 
<bluesabre> Yes
<flocculant> can we get it added to x-desktop in the meantime? with release not that far off 
<flocculant> bbl
<bluesabre> Yeah, we can add it back to our install, will try to do so today or tomorrow
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfconf 4.13.4 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfconf-4-13-4-released-tp49716.html (by Ali Abdallah-4)
<flocculant> thanks old chap :)
<flocculant> akxwi-dave bluesabre - done some work on release note, hope to finish today
<bluesabre> thanks flocculant 
<flocculant> bluesabre: I've got packages listed which have changed - and there are links to changelogs - but I've not detailed any of the changes yet, I figure anyone using a beta will be happy enough to look for themselves - will get that up to date before final release ;)
<bluesabre> flocculant: sounds good to me
<flocculant> glad you said that :D
<flocculant> knome: not sure we need to do a x.org announce - but if you want to then ... ;)
 * knome shrugs
<knome> probably just for the final release unless you want to try to gather more testers or sth with a beta once
<knome> *one
<flocculant> maybe next time - akxwi-dave might think differently
<knome> ack
<flocculant> personally I don't much like pointing anyone at something that's already out of date :D
<flocculant> nothing new there at least lol
<knome> that's one way to see it
<knome> heh
<flocculant> might be worth doing a 'final beta is coming up - we need testers - this will be the basis of the next lts" post
<flocculant> week of 18th September perhaps
<flocculant> bbl
<knome> yes, sounds sensible to me
<knome> keep poking me and i'll help you two get it out
<knome> not that you "need" the help
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: well I've had another attempt at https://git.xfce.org/panel-plugins/xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin and still no joy - not a clue what's going on there at all 
<ochosi> flocculant: strange, worked for me
<bluesabre> hm
<bluesabre> no ideaaaa
<bluesabre> flocculant: unless your panel is in a different prefix and you're still running an older one somewhere else
<bluesabre> `which xfce4-panel` might give you an idea there
#xubuntu-devel 2017-09-01
<Unit193> bluesabre: whiskermenu should likely recommend mugshot, since that's a default option now I'd think?  However, in Debian mugshot is a sad, lonely puppy.
<flocculant> bluesabre: probably as I suspected - bunch of random xfce git things installed - including panel :p
<flocculant> I think probably it's time to reset this install :D
<flocculant> easier said than done ... 
<Unit193> Pretty much nuke /usr/local/ then check `debsums`?
<Unit193> bluesabre: Can we remove all the things!? :D
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> However, we should remove them from 'supported'
<bluesabre> We can tidy up debian and sync all the removals
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/UZvofiibujcAVIkR8q9y
<Unit193> Err.  G'morning, sir.
<bluesabre> Unit193: Feel free to go ahead with that :)
<Unit193> Done.  I'm sure there's more dead ones there though.
<flocculant> Unit193: probably just going to not bother with any of that and just move stuff to the vanilla artful I don't use :p
<Unit193> Where's the fun in that? :P
<flocculant> :D
<flocculant> I did try reverting the git stuff but had that libgarcon-dev issue again ... 
<Unit193> Debian bug, known, fixed in svn.
<akxwi-dave> flocculant:  agree with you from last nights comment...
<akxwi-dave> oh and My internet went live this morning wooo hoo
<flocculant> probably not helping my situation with this pa plugin having some random git version either :D
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: ack - well I guess we should aim for a blog post on 18th
<akxwi-dave> and wierdly i get an extra 5 meg of speed from it
<flocculant> and woohoo
<Unit193> I should grab svn from garcon and build it for you, I suppose...
<flocculant> Unit193: I almost love you :p
<Unit193> Some of those words aren't in the right order..
<flocculant> :D
<bluesabre> flocculant: can probably set up a daily build of the pa plug now
<flocculant> bluesabre: oh ok - that'll probably be helpful for at least 1 person :D
 * Unit193 likes releases. :>
<flocculant> but I probably need to get shot of the various git things anyway - panl, thunar, ind-panel, screenshooter, status notifier
<flocculant> pa plugin ... 
<flocculant> then start again \o/
<flocculant> Unit193: I'd want garcon-dev anyway I think :)
<flocculant> bbl
<Unit193> in-plug is boring, but sn-plug git is fun.
<flocculant> bluesabre: now the dust has settled after the beta - your reason for running it was "if nothing more than as a spot check to make sure we haven't had any breakage this cycle" 
<flocculant> and tbh we had 2 people looking who do so regardless of whether there's a milestone, you and Paul 
<bluesabre> flocculant: more or less, and if we were lucky, some bug reports that affect only us or a few folks
<flocculant> just seems like a lot of hassle for no reward to me 
<bluesabre> I think we're the only ones using -gtk-greeter now, and only us and mate (I think) are using lightdm at all
<bluesabre> As we fall farther from ubuntu proper, there's going to be more breakage
<flocculant> if we had loads of people that actually tested then I could see the reason
<bluesabre> yeah
<flocculant> mmm
<flocculant> anyway - just thought I would say it for the last time this cycle :D
<Unit193> flocculant: You're looking at beta testing, people might just try betas and if they hit something then say/report.
<Unit193> lightdm (from lightdm) is seeded in: lubuntu-next lubuntu ubuntu-budgie ubuntu-mate ubuntukylin ubuntustudio xubuntu
<Unit193> Hrm, I told someone I'd give 'em new garcon..
<flocculant> lol
<flocculant> Unit193: and possibly - but no way of knowing that I know of
<Unit193> I'll have to do another upgrade to artful soon though.
<Unit193> ...And rebuild most/all of my archive(s). :3
<flocculant> :)
<Unit193> I don't suppose you'll want to do a test install of garcon before?
<flocculant> I can in the morning assuming you refer to -offtopic 
<Unit193> Meant before checking out, but honestly it doesn't really matter as it didn't make it for artful either way.
<flocculant> I'll pop back to the other install if you want
<flocculant> cos mpd fighting back and I can't be bothered now :D
<flocculant> and back
<Unit193> Gah, builders are slow today..
<flocculant> morning then :p
<flocculant> is this the garcon in gtk3 ppa? 
<flocculant> and will that then let me install libgarcon-dev?
<Unit193> Should.
<Unit193> ...Once the builders catch up and finally build it.
<flocculant> ok - I'll look first thing then
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> assuming then that it'll let me make uninstall 
<flocculant> anyway - night and thanks for building that :)
<Unit193> Well crap, updating was a bad idea.
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/620241 think something in there is evil.
<bluesabre> Unit193, what broke?
<Unit193> Every single thing is now on the desktop in regards to /dev /sys, etc.
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> thunar too, of course.
<Unit193> Waaaaaaait, downgrading *did* help.  Kick out garcon and it's not so bad.
<Unit193> ...And re-upgrade that, can't get them back.  Help, bluesabre!
<bluesabre> so, garcon breakage?
<Unit193> I just upgraded that again, and the issue didn't come back though.
<Unit193> And when I downgraded, the issue didn't go away right then.
<Unit193> This, this is why I'm not part of QA. :D
<bluesabre> Wonky
#xubuntu-devel 2017-09-02
<Unit193> ...They're back.
<flocculant> morning
<flocculant> well no idea what I did to my other install but it's got none of .config/user-dirs.dirs \o/
<Unit193> Are the Ubuntu desktop guys tracking https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=782814?
<ubottu> Gnome bug 782814 in general "fstab binds appear as mounts (x-gvfs-hide is being ignored)" [Normal,Needinfo]
<Unit193> (LP 1691908, Debian something I don't have offhand.)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1691908 in glib2.0 (Ubuntu) "fstab binds appear as mounts (x-gvfs-hide is being ignored)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1691908
<flocculant> no idea
<Unit193> I need to download some introspection packages to make this a little cleaner.
<Unit193> s/download/downgrade/
<flocculant> bluesabre: do you remember of there's some thing to make gt5 look a bit better? can't remember what I did last year lol - blame my age ;)
<flocculant> and now have a vanilla panel \o/
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> though I gave up fiddling about - 10 minutes reinstalling was much easier 
<bluesabre> flocculant: install qt5-style-plugins
<flocculant> \o/
<bluesabre> and probably log out/in
<flocculant> thanks - that's better :)
<Unit193> No relogging, env var already set.
<flocculant> bluesabre: https://i.imgur.com/Tc9gQX3.png
<bluesabre> flocculant: that looks promising :)
<flocculant> no idea how I managed to get the other install in the state I did - but as is pretty normal - I did :D
<flocculant> luckily it doesn't take a week to install and update :p
<flocculant> bluesabre: ok - so with the pa plugin I can do away with the mpd plugin (at least with the client I use) so 1 less thing cluttering up the panel - thanks 
<flocculant> ninetls: ^^ also iirc :)
<bluesabre> flocculant: very nice, glad to help :D
<flocculant> have a small issue with it though
<flocculant> which is theme somehow I guess - not easy to write out - will video it :)
<flocculant> parole seg fault ...
<Unit193> Nine isn't pa-plug, that's Andr.
<flocculant> oh 
 * flocculant bad
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> bluesabre: https://streamable.com/u9pvt
<flocculant> not sure what's up with parole though 
 * Unit193 still hopes he can get Nine to port ind-plug to Ayatana. :P
<bluesabre> flocculant: you'll want greybird-gtk-theme from https://launchpad.net/~shimmerproject/+archive/ubuntu/daily :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: unless I need to logout/in - then I have that 
<flocculant> grabbed our ppa's already
<bluesabre> flocculant: I think it will refresh if you swap themes back and forth
<bluesabre> > Numix > Greybird
<flocculant> bluesabre: ok - that looks better
<flocculant> but now the fwd/back buttons don't work :D
<bluesabre> flocculant: parole or mpd?
<flocculant> mpd
<flocculant> parole is giving me the finger :(
<bluesabre> hmmmm
<bluesabre> I'll need to set it up myself to test and see whats up
<flocculant> okey doke
<flocculant> mmm this is odd
<Unit193> flocculant: Are we mostly in shape for release?
<bluesabre> oh hey, catfish got a mention http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/09/finding-files-in-command-line :)
<bluesabre> heading to the store, bbl
<Unit193> At 7am?
<bluesabre> Unit193: I wanted to go at 5:30, decided to wait for some sunlight
<bluesabre> or
<bluesabre> at some light
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> see you later
<flocculant> Unit193: as far as I know
<Unit193> ...I need to teach you how to do a Saturday.
<flocculant> except for I appear to have no sound at all currently - which is not just odd but very very bad :(
<flocculant> mpd at least
<bluesabre> flocculant: open up pavucontrol, default out might be hdmi or something
#xubuntu-devel 2017-09-03
<Unit193> garcon 0.6.1-2 uploaded by Yves-Alexis Perez (corsac) (Closes: #868626)
<Unit193> xfce4-terminal 0.8.6-1 uploaded by Yves-Alexis Perez (corsac) (Closes: #659346)
#xubuntu-devel 2018-08-27
<bluesabre> flocculant: seems so
<flocculant> bluesabre ochosi - thought I'd come back on yesterdays nightmare ...
<flocculant> it got worse ;)
<flocculant> woke up this morning to no working installs 
<bluesabre> flocculant: yikes
<flocculant> cosmic is still foobar - this one I reinstalled, thankfully I've always got a stick with one of our releases on it - so reinstalled 18.04.1 ...
<bluesabre> is the breakage limited to us?
<flocculant> it seems to be hating an hdd 
<flocculant> so it could well be hardware
<flocculant> bluesabre: no idea - not been able to look if it is the pixbuf update
<flocculant> though if I mount the hdd in a cradle and usb3 it - it's fine and gdisk doesn't complain about it 
<bluesabre> I have a cosmic vm from 12 days ago, I can test with it
<flocculant> if you could do that - that would be great - all my iso's etc are on the hdd on the desk :D
<flocculant> if nothing else it'll prove the updates are ok :p
<flocculant> hopefully back in a bit
<flocculant> man intel graphics really aren't too good here ... originally I wondered if it was the nvidia card dying - rather than something disky 
<bluesabre> updates almost done running
<bluesabre> had 286 new packages
<flocculant> ha ha 
<flocculant> I assume there was gdk-pixbuf in the list?
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> among other g*k things
<flocculant> yea
<flocculant> it balked when setting it up here - and got the warning I pastebinned
<bluesabre> looks like it booted and logged in
<flocculant> that's good - just me knackered
<flocculant> due a reinstall - managed a whole dev cycle without it last time \o/
<flocculant> bit confused why I can mount the hdd fine in a cradle - but not in the machine, unless the sata cable is breaking down
<bluesabre> seems strange
<bluesabre> can you boot from the cradle?
<flocculant> and I can see why the gdk-pixbuf-query-loaders command fails 
<flocculant> it's a data drive
<bluesabre> ah, gotcha
<flocculant> from the changelog > Remove /usr/bin/gdk-pixbuf-query-loaders symlink from -dev package.
<flocculant> so lets remove that - but not the directive to use it if something breaks ...
<flocculant> sigh
<flocculant> right - going to take the desktop apart and put this drive back in ... could be some time - thankfully it's a public holiday today
<flocculant> so that's ok now
<flocculant> apparently ...
<brainwash> bluesabre: any final thought on bug 1754872 ?
<ubottu> bug 1754872 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "apt install xubuntu-desktop does not resolve dependencies properly" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1754872
<flocculant> bluesabre: gremlins ...
<flocculant> brainwash: hi :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: reinstalled cosmic - so whatever it was is gone now - but I did report the pixbuf symlink issue
<brainwash> hello flocculant 
<ochosi> flocculant: good to hear, i'll also try updating packages again tonight then ;)
<flocculant> :)
<Spass> flocculant, my VM 18.10 install works good here, but I update it pretty regularly, I can try on my "real" 18.10 install on a different disk, that one I didn't upgrade in quite some time
<Spass> I'll check that now, brb
<Spass> my HDD 18.10 install seems to work fine, over 450 packages were upgraded - https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/2bbwc2cmFG/
<Spass> btw, it looks like a mess after I was testing that nasty "screen edge" issue - https://ibb.co/e8JRNp
<Spass> and after that 450+ packages and reboot I just needed to do full-upgrade with these - https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/TGMgVynsXB/
<flocculant> Spass: yea - pretty much convinced it was a local hw issue given that 18.04 gave up on me too
<flocculant> ochosi: :) glad it turned out to be me only - but thought I would say something just in case ...
<flocculant> well actually - I'd rather it was global - seem to have dodgy 3Tb drive ...
<flocculant> but you know :D
<ochosi> flocculant: yeah, thanks for mentioning it anyway!
<Unit193> bluesabre: Is there a reason we're behind on xfce4-settings?
<bluesabre> Unit193: I think debian was running behind because the latest release was minor... maybe?
<Unit193> Not according to my page, Debian already has it.  I thought there was some slight issue.
#xubuntu-devel 2018-08-28
<bluesabre> oh
<bluesabre> didn't know of any
<bluesabre> upload away
<Unit193> I don't have anything yet.
<flocculant> bluesabre: re bug 1698540 - if one disables mpris2 and then closes/reopens parole, it's enabled again - and I can confirm the original issue too
<ubottu> bug 1698540 in parole (Ubuntu) "Parole crashes when choosing to open a file if MPRIS2 plugin is deactivated" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1698540
#xubuntu-devel 2018-08-29
<Spass> I have some issues with 'cups-browsed' on 18.10 recently, it keeps crashing "cups-browsed assert failure: munmap_chunk(): invalid pointer"
<brainwash> Spass: you should let apport create a bug report
<Spass> brainwash, apport fails to create a report
<brainwash> why is that?
<Spass> unfortunately I don't remember the error message now, but if it will happen again I'll remember
<Unit193> brainwash: Thanks again for taking care of bug reports.
<brainwash> glad I can help :)
<brainwash> Spass: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=907399
<Unit193> Debian 907399
<ubot93> Debian bug 907399 in cups-browsed "cups-browsed: munmap_chunk(): invalid pointer" [Important, Open] https://bugs.debian.org/907399
<brainwash> ohh
<brainwash> bot was gone
<Unit193> Netsplit+channel that is +r == bad
<Spass> "once a day" yup, that sounds right, because I had it before, today, and now I can't reproduce it
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: Seed Ubuntu Cloud Archive keyring into main. @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=97ecd21ea89332b19415063f25b9f8ca0b049941 (by Dimitri John Ledkov)
#xubuntu-devel 2018-08-30
<bluesabre> How would everybody feel about a meeting in the next week or so?
<Unit193> Depends on day and time?
<bluesabre> Lots of flexibility on Monday, otherwise sometime in the evening T-F (22+ utc), or any time on either weekend
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<Ovius> A fascinating blog where freenode staff member Matthew mst Trout recounts his experiences of eye-raping young children https://MattSTrout.com/
<Ovius> I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan kloeri Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
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<OGF0> A fascinating blog where freenode staff member Matthew mst Trout recounts his experiences of eye-raping young children https://MattSTrout.com/
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<flocculant> bluesabre: away from this Saturday till next Saturday - then home on hols for a week after that
<MobileMatt> A fascinating blog where freenode staff member Matthew mst Trout documents his experiences eye-raping young children https://MattSTrout.com/
<MobileMatt> Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
<MobileMatt> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
<MobileMatt> I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan kloeri Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
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<flocculant> !ops
<ubot93> Help! Channel emergency! (ONLY use this trigger in emergencies) - Pici, Myrtti, jrib, Amaranth, tonyyarusso, Nalioth, lamont, CarlK, elky, mneptok, Tm_T, jpds, ikonia, Flannel, genii, wgrant, stdin, h00k, IdleOne, Jordan_U, popey, Corey, ocean, cprofitt, djones, Madpilot, gnomefreak, lhavelund, phunyguy, bazhang, chu, dax
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<acheronuk> DalekSec: +r ?
<flocculant> !ops
<flocculant> acheronuk: I suspect asleep or doing things or it would have been dealt with :)
<flocculant> personally I would hit with a fence post hammer and not worry about the +r :p
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<Unit193> acheronuk: Sorry.
<bluesabre> flocculant: alrighty, so the following week would be best for you :)
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<bluesabre> looks like we somehow acquired gnome-sudoku this month, https://wiki.bluesabre.org/cosmic_changes?do=diff&rev2%5B0%5D=1533073698&rev2%5B1%5D=1535671433&difftype=sidebyside
<Unit193> And a few langpacks..
<bluesabre> quite a few
<Unit193> popcon is new?
<bluesabre> maybe... my script seems to miss some things sometimes
#xubuntu-devel 2018-08-31
<flocculant> popcon wasn't on last manifest I have from 11th
<flocculant> bluesabre: and yea - wasn't sure you would see that in all the spam :D
<bluesabre> false alarm, forgot that we've included gnome-sudoku for years
<bluesabre> but yeah, popcon/langpacks are new
<Unit193> Wonder if they're going to have a more visable opt-in for popcon.
<bluesabre> We can push for it
<bluesabre> I also think we should consider the minimal ubiquity install option. There's one person who can move -core forward and he's already stated his distaste and intentional delay
<Unit193> ...Would I be told to stop publishing ISOs? :P
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> I'll nudge him again and see if he will just merge the branches so we can move along
<flocculant> bluesabre: well I hope ^^ will be on the meeting 
<brainwash> bluesabre, Unit193: can this be fixed in 18.04? bug 1758023
<ubot93> Bug 1758023 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "Mouse acceleration not configurable in Xubuntu 18.04" [Undecided, Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1758023
<brainwash> see comment #19
<brainwash> affects quite some people
<bluesabre> brainwash: will take a look. Generally it doesn't affect anybody until they pull some package that brings libinput along for the ride. Need to confirm we're building with it now in 18.10, will do so this weekend.
<bluesabre> It's one of those unfortunate things where libinput oversteps and takes over all control :\
<brainwash> bluesabre: but isn't it installed by default?
<brainwash> xserver-xorg-input-libinput 0.27.1-1
<brainwash> that's on the 18.04.1 ISO
<bluesabre> brainwash: aha, that didn't used to be the case (at least I thought)
<bluesabre> brainwash: alrighty, sure enough, it's built with libinput support as of 4.13.1-1
<bluesabre> Need to do some 18.04 / 4.12 testing to see if it's reasonable to consider for bionic
<bluesabre> Though, that portion of the code hasn't been touched in ages
<bluesabre> So, probably OK
<ali1234> speaking of mouse acceleration. i've got this weird thing where after some time (usually several days) my mouse acceleration gets a lot slower. if i replug it it goes fast again. it's an ancient USB intellimouse explorer. anyone else seen anything like that?
<ali1234> it's something that started happening recently too. it might just be dying hardware, idk...
<bluesabre> ali1234: not seen that
<bluesabre> computer usually running for weeks without a reboot or mouse disconnect
#xubuntu-devel 2018-09-01
<bluesabre> ali1234: I don't suppose you know of min/max mouse acceleration options with xorg? Can't seem to find any docs on it. Related to https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12622
<ubot93> Xfce bug 12622 in Xfce4-settings "mouse acceleration capped at 10" [Normal, Assigned]
<ali1234> i don't know but the acceleration slider in mouse settings seems to have no effect for me
<bluesabre> ali1234: that's seemingly related to libinput
<brainwash> bluesabre: having it built with libinput support in some ppa would help to test it
<TJ-> This week I discovered a security vulnerability in the screen-lock/hide desktop functionality. When there are multiple X screens the lock only operates on :0.0. Contents of other X screens remain visible. This reminded me of the same bug I reported in 2013 (!) in KDE which has still not been fixed. Where best to report this against? Presumably upstream but not sure which project/package. ( Bug #1264821
<ubot93> Bug 1264821 in kde-workspace (Ubuntu) "kscreenlock_greet insecure with multiple X screens" [Medium, In Progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1264821
<TJ-> )
<bluesabre> TJ-: light-locker would be the project I believe, https://github.com/the-cavalry/light-locker would be the upstream
<ochosi> (fairly dormant upstream, tbh)
<TJ-> hmmm, it looks like it should just be dropped! combined with the other LL bug where lid-induced suspend results in 'dead' tty on resume!
<TJ-> It really annoys me, devs working on core display technology don't test on multiple X screens - which is a very common scenario in enterprises especially.
<TJ-> I'll look at it in more depth next week
<bluesabre> I've considered in the past porting gnome-screensaver to xfce
<bluesabre> works well as a lock screen, and switch user works
<bluesabre> not tried with multiple X screens, but likely has better support than light-locker
<bluesabre> even though ll was originally based on it
<ochosi> you can simply go to one of the first revisions when i was still contributing a bit more
<ochosi> that's basically gnome-screensaver without gnome depends
<ochosi> (and that was my original idea)
<bluesabre> neat
<ochosi> it was usable and working
<brainwash> bluesabre: I'm curious about this one also https://git.archlinux.org/svntogit/packages.git/commit/trunk?h=packages/xfce4-settings&id=a1a6ca07f0577a62b8e6679ee023eea774502d8e
<brainwash> this was linked in a launchpad report
<brainwash> what would not building with upower support break?
<brainwash> xubuntu users often mention the workaround to edit /etc/UPower/UPower.conf, and do IgnoreLid=false ==> IgnoreLid=true
<brainwash> as workaround for that black screen thing
<bluesabre> brainwash: I don't know the answer to that. As far as I know, some laptops report to Upower one value, while others do the reverse
<bluesabre> ochosi may know more
<brainwash> the archlinux people do not seem to have any major problems with their builds
<brainwash> at least they did not revert that linked commit
<brainwash> I'd think that systemd can handle those events
<brainwash> lid close/open
<TJ-> interesting; that's the bug I originally reported. Not revisited it since, I just manually suspend before closing the lid
<brainwash> you mean bug 1431149 ?
<ubot93> Bug 1431149 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "XFCE 4.12 Black screen after wakeup from suspending by closing the laptop lid" [Undecided, Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1431149
<TJ-> Bug #1759950
<ubot93> Bug 1759950 in light-locker (Ubuntu) "Lid-close suspend: blank screen when switching to user session" [Undecided, New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1759950
<brainwash> still open
<brainwash> upstream I mean
<TJ-> light-locker upstream is basically abandonware so far as I could tell
<brainwash> it does look like it
<TJ-> I did a lot of source-code diving/debugging and narrowed it down some, but never got to looking at upower. If I can find some time this week I'll investigate that lead and report back in my bug report
<brainwash> I recall that getting rid of VT switching was on the roadmap
<brainwash> sadly, no progress
<TJ-> what I found was that in the LidClose event case, the number of Close events didn't match the number of Open events after resume, which seemed to leave the X server state as DPMS off or something. My memory is quite sketchy without re-reading my notes
<brainwash> is that with xubuntu only?
<TJ-> yes
<TJ-> I also noticed it seems to be timing related, in that for me at least, faster CPUs seemed to suffer it more than slower ones. Not sure if that was just co-incidence though - I didn't do rigorous tests of that!
<brainwash> maybe building -settings without upower could somehow help
<brainwash> I assume that would mean that upower is not pulled in anymore
<brainwash> wait. the power-manager needs it still, or?
<brainwash> this really requires a proper investigation =S
<TJ-> looking at the source, it provides a dbus service for x-p-m 
<brainwash> ah
<brainwash> does x-p-m really need that service?
<brainwash> I assume that it can fall back to systemd
<TJ-> I've just spotted a bug in upower, reporting the battery state as 208% of design capacity
<brainwash> that's called 'supercharged'
<TJ-> note line 45 vs line 5: http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/bphCcjmFbd/
<Spass> on 18.10 I have problems with whoopsie - https://ibb.co/jYT0ue
<Spass> I think it's when I want to report that "once a day" bug with cups-browsed
<Unit193> < bluesabre> works well as a lock screen, and switch user works   I think you just described xscreensaver? :P
<bluesabre> Unit193: didn't you share that xscreensaver sometimes doesn't show for folks now :D
<Unit193> Oooh dang, you do read me. :3  And yeah, login screen tends to flash for a second then goes away, but esc out of it and move mouse again to bring it up.
<Unit193> And only Xfce folks! :P
<knome> Unit193's new motto: "Use GNOME, people!"
<bluesabre> my new motto: Use knome, people!"
<knome> uhhh
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> Pretty sure that'd be the last thing I'd say.
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> i'm sure you didn't intend it to be interpreted as i did..
<bluesabre> probably not
<knome> (:
<Unit193> Besides, there's Xfce people here, that might be an Xfce specific problem, maybe one of them can fix it! :D
<bluesabre> :D
#xubuntu-devel 2018-09-02
<Spass> bluesabre, small suggestion - adding info about --path= option to Catfish's manpage and help
<Unit193> Catfish is one of the ~2 Xfce apps with a manpage? :o
<Spass> :)
<knome> good for catfish?
<Unit193> It's making my OCD upset.
<knome> good for you:P
<Unit193> knome: http://paste.openstack.org/show/SAvXE6VatgGmpWAI9Dsc !
<knome> :)
<bluesabre> Spass: good idea
<bluesabre> Unit193: https://git.xfce.org/apps/catfish/commit/?id=6ae5045a41256f9649215d736ccb9adaa45a4530
<Unit193> ..Welp.  Thanks? ;3
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> Spass: https://git.xfce.org/apps/catfish/commit/?id=f954e5d00a421ae7c1399aa59a4d057a532d9de9
<Spass> awesome, thanks
<knome> uh oh
<knome> live bug fixing session?
<Spass> it was useful in Whisker Menu's Search Actions - catfish --start --path=~/ %s
<Spass> well, we could think about adding this action to Whisker...
<Spass> "Search in your home directory"
<Spass> with pattern "-" for example
<Spass> (credits for this idea goes to ondondil)
<bluesabre> knome: just knocking code out until I burn out
<Unit193> No before and after pics? :3
<bluesabre> Unit193: prepare to be amazed
<bluesabre> https://imgur.com/a/gaXMvz8
<bluesabre> (most changes are minor)
<Unit193> Added some missing icons, which is nice.  "Single window"?
<bluesabre> dunno... master?
<bluesabre> thunar-uca was a bit more dramatic https://imgur.com/a/Bfvduf8
<Unit193> Padding at the bottom makes it look a little less awkwardly squished.
<bluesabre> accessibility settings got wordy... but now it's possible to know what each thing does https://imgur.com/a/RoA7vKw
<bluesabre> Which I think is more accessible?
<Unit193> But it's one checkbox, soo..
<bluesabre> more spacing for settings editor... and apparently an icon not in adwaita https://imgur.com/a/vThQ360
<bluesabre> so yeah, largely small changes that just make things line up more consistently
#xubuntu-devel 2019-08-26
<flocculant> Unit193: nice one with the core iso 
<Unit193> Thanks, figured Eoan would go without it. :3
<flocculant> :)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- Reminder: Next meeting chair is knome
<knome> oi
<knome> /p\
<Unit193> elementary-xfce uploaded to Debian, will force sync once I'm able.
#xubuntu-devel 2019-08-27
<bluesabre> Unit193: thanks!
<bluesabre> Unit193: would you be opposed to me adding arm builds to our ppas?
<Unit193> bluesabre: Everything would have to be re-uploaded...
<Unit193> But I guess go ahead?  I take it someone asked?
<bluesabre> Unit193: I ordered a raspberry pi 4, so trying to get 4.14  on there somewhat easily :)
<Unit193> Ah.
<bluesabre> I'll experiment with a temp ppa first
<Unit193> So everything is in Debian, and I can start sync'ing over.  I should be able to bootstrap arm with the new uploads if you add arm64.
<Unit193> (Unless I already started syncing..)
<bluesabre> Nah, don't worry about it for now
<bluesabre> But that is awesome that we're pretty well synced up now
<Unit193> You should add arm64, I'll end up backporting everything anyway. :)
<bluesabre> Alrighty, I'll enable arm64 and armhf (seems the pis use that latter)
<bluesabre> Arches added
#xubuntu-devel 2019-08-28
<maggotbrain> Spass[m]: I've had to use the same workaround for thunar-archive-plugin\
<ochosi> bluesabre: i once tried xubuntu proper on a raspi, but the performancd was bad due to lack of kernel patches. i ended up with mate (they have a raspi build) and xfce on top of it
<ochosi> Wimpress also ran an xfce build for me that was really performant
<ochosi> but i never learned the secrets of his build...
<ochosi> would be a really awesome feat to support raspis better
<ochosi> xfce is well suited for that
<ochosi> (at work we have quite a few raspis running his image)
<Unit193> Raspbian?
<bluesabre> ochosi: yeah, heâs not quite ready with the pi4 yet, so limited to raspbian
<ali1234> afaik raspbian doesn't apply any special kernel patches beyond what is in the official rpi foundation tree
<ali1234> which you pretty much have to use to make rpi work at all
<ali1234> in fact the default raspbian kernel isn't actually part of the raspbian repo, it comes from the foundation's repo
<ali1234> that's also where they put all the proprietary software which is unique to raspbian
<ali1234> raspbian itself is nothing but debian rebuilt for ARMv6
<ali1234> note that raspbian calls this armhf, but it is different to debian's armhf
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: supported-cloud: Seed sysfsutils @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=4bd97e3ba9ba2e0f36f4507b1eed436e2b9c69ae (by Tiago StÃ¼rmer Daitx)
#xubuntu-devel 2019-08-29
<bluesabre> ali1234: seems to be compatible enough to debian's armhf (at least so far)
<bluesabre> currently repackaging glibc, so we'll see how much that stays true :D
<Unit193> ...I did a merge of libxfce4ui, I have no idea where it went...
<Unit193> Found it!
<Unit193> ....I pushed it to my repo, which doesn't accept source-only uploads.  Cool, I don't need to re-do it!
<Unit193> (I'm just glad I wasn't stupid enough to push to Debian, but I'm not in the habbit of pushing loads of things there anyway.  I think dput would reject that.)
<Unit193> bluesabre: It's basically done, just waiting for thunar to have a new release then will update xfdesktop4 there too.  Other than that, it'd just be -settings and -session missing.
<Unit193> -ish
<Spass[m]> Unit193: what do you think about adding thunar-archive-plugin 0.4.0 to the QA Staging for bionic?
<Unit193> "It's not there already"?
<Unit193> Err, "It's not there already?"
<Spass[m]> in my case I had to install it manually from the DEB from disco
<Spass[m]> because I've noticed that "Extract here" menu entry disappeared
<Unit193> You asked what I thought, I told you what I thought.  I also backported it just now.
<Spass[m]> heh, I see :) awesome, thanks!
<Unit193> Let me know if you run into any more, but you shouldn't.
<Unit193> (I know of a couple panel plugins that are gtk2, but they've since been removed from the archive and are long dead, so I have zero interest in supporting them.)
<Spass[m]> ok will do, but so far that was the only small hiccup I had, other than that everything works great
<bluesabre> Unit193: awesome thanks!
<Unit193> bluesabre: So, catfish? :P
<bluesabre> Unit193: yeah, waiting until this weekend for that one (pushed a bunch of translation changes last weekend)
<bluesabre> And there was a debian bug I "fixed" in the previous release that I apparently forgot to push anything but the changelog for
<Unit193> Hah, well I was just poking about the packaging.  Also, either the new -screensaver or -power-manager is blanking the screen after a couple minutes when I open the lid and unlock.  This happens when in the middle of typing or whatnot...
<bluesabre> That's not good
<bluesabre> Unit193: you can try setting the blank screen settings in the screensaver to some super high number to see if it might be to blame, though it's timer is only supposed to run while/after the screen is locked
<bluesabre> Unit193: curious, do you know if debian and ubuntu have arch-specific build farms or is everything cross-compiled?
<Unit193> Native or does a VM count?
<Unit193> Faaaarms.
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> https://db.debian.org/machines.cgi see this for example.  Why do you ask?
<bluesabre> Neat. Was just curious really.
<Unit193> Porterbox == ssh, schroot, testbuild!  I used a porterbox to test a patch that was supposed to fix ftbfs on mips or something crazy like that.
<Unit193> (Audacity)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: fwupdate-signed -> fwupd-signed (LP: #1841744) @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=205a3d172f721e6a5ce76723a4cd0e4437a4d8c3 (by Mario Limonciello)
#xubuntu-devel 2019-08-30
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: Remove mlocate from the standard seed. @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=e117a2ee69755eecfd21c682ad306d34d7c2e0cf (by Brian Murray)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: We still want to support mlocate so put it in supported-sysadmin-common. @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=1b47caea0bcb6bd4b0fd6a63c4c1aa03ecc8135d (by Brian Murray)
<Unit193> Bah.
#xubuntu-devel 2019-08-31
<Unit193> knome: Can you blacklist *@mailo.com from the -devel list?
<knome> ..yes?
<Unit193> There were 70+ messages in the queue, a lot of them were from there.
<knome> nice
<knome> ^.*@mailo\.com
<knome> hah,
<Unit193> Sent log.
<knome> simon.steinbeiss@gmail.com is on the discard list.
<knome> i wonder if that's intentional
<knome> anyway, done
<Unit193> Thanks.
<knome> np
<bluesabre> Unit193: hello!
<bluesabre> Unit193: syncing elementary-xfce
<Unit193> Oh heh, looks like I forgot.
<ochosi> knome: hah, really? maybe you just decided you dont like me anymore..? :D
<bluesabre> Unit193: would you mind uploading menulibre-2.2.1 to unstable? https://salsa.debian.org/python-team/applications/menulibre
<brainwash> bluesabre: how busy are you? maybe you can look into bug 1834798
<ubottu> bug 1834798 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "incorrect labels and icons pulled from .desktop files" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1834798
<brainwash> it's python code
<brainwash> or, maybe you have an idea for a solution
<brainwash> xfce4-screensaver appears as "Floating Xfce"
<brainwash> bluesabre: and what do you think about bug 1835668?
<ubottu> bug 1835668 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Locking screen on live system no longer possible with Xubuntu 18.10/19.04" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1835668
<Unit193> I mean, we did ship https://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/tree/debian/light-locker.desktop to keep light-locker from starting too...
<bluesabre> My opinion on that has always been, if a user that doesn't know about the default password locks themself out, they're going to stop testing Xubuntu right then
<bluesabre> However, with xfce4-screensaver, the option to turn locking back on is super easy to get to (in the screensaver settings, even!)
<Unit193> bluesabre: I think we can rm that file now.  Also, in -session isn't the upstart stuff, you know, not needed since...
<Unit193> !info upstart
<ubottu> Package upstart does not exist in disco
<bluesabre> Unit193: that stuff, I don't know about... I thought there was some sort of systemd shim that used it
<Unit193> http://deriv.debian.net/Ubuntu/patches/x/xfce4-session/xfce4-session_4.13.1-2_xfce4-session_4.13.2-0ubuntu1.debian.patch not sure what's needed or not.
<Unit193> Oh right!  menulibre!
<Unit193> bluesabre: http://paste.openstack.org/show/n7NAcQgzzupnSllgK8tu I presume no last minute changes?
<Unit193> git describe: debian/2.2.0-2-17-ga88495a
#xubuntu-devel 2019-09-01
<bluesabre> thanks Unit193 
<Unit193> Don't forget to push and tag.
<knome> ochosi, want it removed? :P
<bluesabre> done, thanks again Unit193 
<knome> so... meeting
<knome> tbh i'm not sure i'm able to schedule a meeting that i can make for sure and that is a useful time for most
<bluesabre> tomorrow is a holiday in the US... if that helps with flexibility at all
<knome> tomorrow is a no go
<knome> basically all days from sat-tue every week is very unstable :P
<Unit193> bluesabre: Glad to be able to assist.
<Unit193> knome: Also, I figure it's because he posted with his one account, it got held since it's not the one he's subbed with so he posted again with that.  You later came along and approved the held one, thus two emails were sent to the list.
<knome> i figured it might be on purpose for these kinds of reasons.
#xubuntu-devel 2020-08-24
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: thunar 4.15.2 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-thunar-4-15-2-released-tp59390.html (by Alexander Schwinn-2)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- Reminder: Next meeting chair is knome
<Unit193> Hello, is there anyone that uses the experimental PPA in here?
#xubuntu-devel 2020-08-25
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 20.10 - amd64 - amd64 built.
<jphilips> Unit193: yep i am :D
#xubuntu-devel 2020-08-26
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Apply translations in gl @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/f1be7965199707dd1471360572cec1bf0a0f7a17 (by transifex-integration)
<Unit193> Good luck!
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Translate /usr/bin/po/thunar-print.pot in gl @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/d33655c4b944efa0b3d2b3d666d18dfe0ac580c8 (by transifex-integration)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Apply translations in gl @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/8c7fcb0dbd7c956c41073fb244df64e3bf9a9d9a (by transifex-integration)
#xubuntu-devel 2020-08-27
<astraljava> Hey guys, I know this ain't the correct place but seeing I won't get an answer over the mainline, and there are some really bright and knowledged minds here, I'm gonna try anyway.
<astraljava> Anyone know or are in possession of a whitepaper or something similar where Canonical explains how they ensure the security of the official repositories?
<astraljava> My google-fu is failing me atm. Cheers!
<pleia2> astraljava: maybe ask the folks in #canonical-sysadmin?
<astraljava> pleia2: Okay, I'll try there. Thanks a lot! :)
<jphilips> bluesabre: any update on the meeting?
<xubuntu1804> Hi, I am still on Xubuntu LTS 18.04. Unlike two years ago, I have not yet received a message from apt to distro upgrade to 20.04.1. Is that normal?
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: libxfce4util 4.15.3 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-libxfce4util-4-15-3-released-tp59394.html (by Simon Steinbeiss)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: Xfce 4.16pre1 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-Xfce-4-16pre1-released-tp59395.html (by Simon Steinbeiss)
<RikMills> bug reports says this is still impacting xubuntu LP: #1885414
<ubot93> Launchpad bug 1885414 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Groovy) "on flavours ubiquity: bootloader failed on /dev/vda" [Critical, Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1885414
<Unit193> ochosi: Should X-GNOME-Gettext-Domain be handled in libxfce4util?
<Unit193> http://codesearch.debian.net/search?q=X-GNOME-Gettext-Domain&literal=1
#xubuntu-devel 2020-08-28
<Unit193> It'd also be a bit nice if one could set DISTRIBUTOR or so, Ubuntu has http://paste.openstack.org/show/oZg7qNqZxdfsv8lXNevK but that'd be nice to have the option to set Ubuntu, Debian, etc.
<bluesabre> jphilips: scheduled for tomorrow at 22:00 UTC.
<Unit193> \o/
<Unit193> Hold up, FF just hit?!
<RikMills> yes
<Unit193> I haven't looked at the schedule in months since it's not on the wiki, I guess it sneaks up on you.
<ochosi> Unit193: a-ha, i wasn't aware of X-GNOME-Gettext-Domain (i'm also not really the desktop file expert)
<ochosi> Unit193: what is distributor used for in practice?
<ochosi> ideally create a MR based on that patch so we can discuss it on gitlab
<Unit193> bluesabre: https://ftp-master.debian.org/new/libxfce4util_4.15.3-1.html
<Unit193> ochosi: I don't know, I see glib handles it in Debian for X-Debian, and I have seen several Ubuntu ones use that too.  There's been a patch in libxfce4util since forever for that.
<bluesabre> Unit193: yay!
<bluesabre> Unit193: and yeah, I've been working non-stop day and night basically since COVID started, and missed that FF was here :\
<Unit193> Urgh, condolences.. :/
<Unit193> Kind of gathered you were very busy though.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Soooo...Tempted to slip in glade with that too...  Not entirely sure that needs it's own package, but it's still used yes?
<bluesabre> Unit193: yes!
<Unit193> Meh, pulls in webkit/etc.  So yeah maybe still an extra package.
<ochosi> as i said, please submit the existing patch in a MR
<ochosi> that would already help
<Unit193> I mean...It's not fit for upstream as-is, soo...
<ochosi> it could still start the discussion
<ochosi> or submit an issue
<ochosi> but only irc is sometimes not enough
<ochosi> unless i end up doing the thing myself
<Unit193> Issue would seem better at least, though just figured I'd ask. :)
<ochosi> sure, one can always try
<Unit193> "Nah that doesn't seem too upstream worthy" "OK!" :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Yatzee!
<Unit193> (...Or the proper spelling.)
<Unit193> ...So I'm going to end up with one package with delta, for myself only too. >_<
<jphilips> bluesabre: thanks. look forward to it tonight
<pleia2> updated the team calendar for it too (just moved the one from the 11th that didn't happen)
<ochosi> thanks, i was just wondering why i didnt see the meeting in my calendar
<ochosi> is it in a few mins?
<pleia2> in an hour
<ochosi> (sry, i actually still dont see it in my calendar...)
<ochosi> ok thanks :)
<jphilips> bluesabre: 2 mins to go
<bluesabre> yes indeedy
<bluesabre> #startmeeting Xubuntu Community Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Fri Aug 28 22:00:26 2020 UTC.  The chair is bluesabre. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<bluesabre> !team | Meeting time!
<ubottu> Meeting time!: bluesabre, knome, krytarik, ochosi, pleia2 and Unit193
<pleia2> o/
<bluesabre> Agenda at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<bluesabre> Who's here?
<krytarik> o/
<bluesabre> hi pleia2 jphilips krytarik :)
<bluesabre> #chair pleia2 krytarik
<meetingology> Current chairs: bluesabre krytarik pleia2
<bluesabre> hoping knome shows up since he had some ideas for this meeting
<ochosi> o/
<bluesabre> #chair ochosi
<meetingology> Current chairs: bluesabre krytarik ochosi pleia2
<bluesabre> We can go ahead and get started
<bluesabre> #topic Open Action Items
<bluesabre> #done bluesabre to move code hosting and translations to GitHub and Transifex
<bluesabre> #done bluesabre to notify the ML of Xubuntu Council nominations
<bluesabre> Not sure: bluesabre and jphilips to send follow-up vote for desktop changes to the ML
<bluesabre> Not sure: bluesabre to send vote to ML for Xubuntu Telegram bridge
<bluesabre> I think I dropped the ball on those last two
<bluesabre> #topic Updates and Announcements
<ochosi> Xfce 4.16pre1 is out :)
<ochosi>  \o/
<bluesabre> Way to go ochosi 
<bluesabre> Xubuntu Docs have been getting refreshed weekly, with some updates coming to Transifex soon, feel free to join us! (thanks jphilips for leading the charge here)
<pleia2> nice
<bluesabre> Feature Freeze was yesterday... we'll come back to this later :D
<ochosi> :)
<jphilips> will 4.16pre1 come to the PPA?
<bluesabre> I think... probably
<bluesabre> I have an experimental PPA here, in case you want to experiment: https://launchpad.net/~bluesabre/+archive/ubuntu/xfce-4.16
<jphilips> sweet
<bluesabre> It's not fully up-to-date as of this week's updates
<bluesabre> But close
<bluesabre> 20.10 won't include any 4.15 components, to be clear
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> wouldn't have made sense
<ochosi> too early
<bluesabre> On to the discussion-y bits
<bluesabre> #topic Discussion
<bluesabre> #subtopic Xubuntu Council (bluesabre / knome)
<bluesabre> So, I put out a call for Xubuntu Council nominations a couple weeks ago.
<ochosi> (i'm happy knome brought up that story, i would have forgotten about it already)
<bluesabre> The ML, as well as my DMs, was silent :D
<pleia2> now is a bad time for me, as you might "expect" ;D
<ochosi> :'D
<bluesabre> Definitely :D
<pleia2> I would like to hear knome's thoughts too, but maybe a time to consider switching back to the XPL model?
<pleia2> though I'm not sure anyone wants that either ;)
<ochosi> the question is if the project at this point *needs* an XPL
<pleia2> yeah
<ochosi> after all, we all have been around very long (with some exceptions) and "know what we're doing"
<ochosi> although as knome pointed out correctly, I've mostly moved upstream
<ochosi> plus all the components that "made xubuntu special" are now on gitlab.xfce
<ochosi> (in a good way)
<bluesabre> Yay us for upstreaming our skills :D
<bluesabre> Maybe we should table/ML this for now, and knome can possibly appear later in the meeting to continue the discussion?
<ochosi> i'm wondering - what has the council ever done for us?
<pleia2> things do tend to chug along with people just doing their thing
<ochosi> (i'm sad knome isn't here to pick up the "what have the romans ever done for us" monty python ring...)
<bluesabre> Yeah, the Council has been hands-off since the beginning, which is A-OK
<bluesabre> roamin' roman knome'n
<ochosi> :]
<bluesabre> Alrighty, going to move on to the next thing, and jump around a bit since we have several team folks here.
<bluesabre> #subtopic Team Membership
<bluesabre> Generally speaking, I'd like to expand this... 
<bluesabre> And jphilips applied a couple months ago, with little response
<bluesabre> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2020-May/011972.html
<bluesabre> Since he's been actively contributing and is on some of the subteams: on docs, bugs, social media, website (and probably more), I'd like to get him on the team.
<pleia2> yeah, sorry about not saying anything
<pleia2> the work has been really good :)
<bluesabre> Since we don't add people frequently, and I don't think we have the process really defined, what's the next step?
<pleia2> I think a meeting vote is fine, we have quorum today
<bluesabre> Sounds good to me.
<bluesabre> #vote Add jphilips to xubuntu-team?
<meetingology> Please vote on: Add jphilips to xubuntu-team?
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<pleia2> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from pleia2
<bluesabre> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bluesabre
<bluesabre> !team
<ubottu> bluesabre, knome, krytarik, ochosi, pleia2 and Unit193
<pleia2> well we DID have quorum
<pleia2> wakey wakey :)
<ochosi> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from ochosi
<bluesabre> The 4th vote is always the hardest to pry out of our team :D
<pleia2> hehe
<bluesabre> Suppose I'll have to nudge people on the ML
<bluesabre> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Add jphilips to xubuntu-team?
<meetingology> Votes for:3 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<bluesabre> Shoulda added voters to that
<bluesabre> #action bluesabre to mail the ML about adding jphilips to team (3/6 voted in favor)
<meetingology> ACTION: bluesabre to mail the ML about adding jphilips to team (3/6 voted in favor)
<bluesabre> #subtopic Feature Freeze / Feature Requests
<bluesabre> So, Feature Freeze was yesterday
<bluesabre> We noticed as we received the mail :D
<bluesabre> There's a few feature requests floating around
<bluesabre> Enable folder thumbnailing (LP: #1873268)
<bluesabre> Log notifications by default (LP: #1874496)
<ubot93> Launchpad bug 1873268 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Enable Xfce 4.14 folder thumbnailing" [Wishlist, Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1873268
<ubot93> Launchpad bug 1874496 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "xfce4-notifyd doesn't log notifications by default" [Wishlist, Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1874496
<bluesabre> And a whole slew of app suggestions
<jphilips> well everything in this doc really :D - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hzvQURi8l--GrfqsxP9c0tWNUzrkbZjZTiVxGUegALg/edit#
<ochosi> the notifyd thing is feasible now
<ochosi> i added some settings to it so the log doesn't overflow by default anymore
<bluesabre> Nice
<bluesabre> ochosi: whats the minimum release we need for that?
<ochosi> before that used to be a bit of a problem, users would have had to clean up manually..
<ochosi> bluesabre: hmm, lemme check...
<ochosi> oh dear, it's not yet released
<ochosi> i wanted to test and merge one final MR
<ochosi> but then focused on 4.16pre1
<ochosi> so i guess that's too late for 20.10
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> I've been thinking about how to best test/vote on the changes and additions outlined in https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hzvQURi8l--GrfqsxP9c0tWNUzrkbZjZTiVxGUegALg/edit#heading=h.vc9bmc9pgxg8
<bluesabre> I wonder if we should package up these changes in a PPA or re-spun ISO so they can more easily be taken for a spin
<bluesabre> Is there a good platform (besides maybe a Google form) where we can vote on a pile of different things?
<bluesabre> Or should we just blow up the mailing list with individual proposals
<pleia2> google forms are very easy ;)
<pleia2> but people do like chiming in when they really care about something on the mailing list
<jphilips> google doc was shared with the ML over 6 months ago
<jphilips> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2020-March/011876.html
<pleia2> yeah, it's just a lot to consume at once
<bluesabre> Unit193: welcome
<bluesabre> So yeah, I think sending the proposals individually to the ML will help with the consumption problem
<bluesabre> Lot of work upfront, but hopefully will lead to an actionable response
<Unit193> Howdy.
<ochosi> sry folks, i need to get some rest...
<ochosi> i have a working day ahead tomorrow
<jphilips> night
<ochosi> ->
<bluesabre> ochosi: have a great night/weekend!
<ochosi> thanks, u2
<bluesabre> #action bluesabre/jphilips to send individual proposals to the ML
<meetingology> ACTION: bluesabre/jphilips to send individual proposals to the ML
<pleia2> thanks bluesabre 
<bluesabre> #topic AOB
<bluesabre> Anything else to discuss today?
<pleia2> Unit193: would you like to add a vote? :)
<jphilips> people can give their opinion to these menu changes - https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/issues/6
<Unit193> I've been informed there's something that was voted on, everyone seems in favor so I guess +1
<ubot93> Issue 6 in Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings "Menu Updates" [Open]
<jphilips> patch is provided
<bluesabre> Oh hey, quorum
<bluesabre> jphilips: with 4/6 in favor, welcome to the team!
<jphilips> thanks
<pleia2> :D
<bluesabre> #action bluesabre to add jphilips to the application Launchpad and GitHub groups
<meetingology> ACTION: bluesabre to add jphilips to the application Launchpad and GitHub groups
<bluesabre> *applicable
<bluesabre> but we :D
<bluesabre> Anything else?
<jphilips> also opinions on adding a 'Sound' entry to the settings manager - https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/pull/9
<ubot93> Pull 9 in Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings "Setting Manager: Add Sound entry to Hardware section" [Open]
<jphilips> there was the question about including qt5 libs in the default install
<bluesabre> Oh right
<pleia2> I left a comment about one of the items in Issue 6 (but that should also be part of the mailing list emails that will be sent out)
<ubot93> Bug 6 in Launchpad itself "'next 10 entries' at bottom of page" [Medium, Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/6
 * pleia2 pat pat ubot93 
<bluesabre> Some background, qt5-style-plugins: Makes QT apps look like GTK apps in Xubuntu, but brings in some QT dependencies
<bluesabre> Better default support, larger install size
<Unit193> We don't ship any Qt5 applications, seems rather silly...  Also, that's rather deprecated, so wouldn't be the best idea.
<bluesabre> deprecated is good to know
<jphilips> as part of my recommendations of new apps/packages to add is keepassxc, which does include the same qt5 libs used in qt5-style-plugins
<jphilips> the full list can be found here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/145vm29WnxgYm4Y_8guaGDAblZT5sRjZ3jhKRktgX1No/edit#gid=0
<jphilips> this is its github issue - https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/issues/5
<ubot93> Issue 5 in Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings "New seed software" [Open]
<bluesabre> That's an instance where we should probably review and comment on the bug report to filter the list down a bit. We can indicate as much in the ML
<bluesabre> So yeah, let's take the software discussions to the ML so we're not swamping everybody with a sudden list of decisions :)
<bluesabre> Anything else to discuss for the meeting?
<bluesabre> Alrighty!
<bluesabre> #topic Schedule Next Meeting
<bluesabre> https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/groovy-gorilla-release-schedule/15531
<bluesabre> How about sometime around 9/10?
<bluesabre> #action Team to schedule meeting the week of September 10
<meetingology> ACTION: Team to schedule meeting the week of September 10
<bluesabre> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Aug 28 23:08:07 2020 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2020/xubuntu-devel.2020-08-28-22.00.moin.txt
<bluesabre> Thanks everybody!
<Unit193> ...Are these seed adjustments serious?  Was this filed April 1st?
<pleia2> have a good evening, all
<jphilips> Unit193: yes its serious, see the github issue. was mentioned in ML as well
<jphilips> night all
<bluesabre> It's not an omnibus package, I'd say each item is up for discussion/filtering down/voting
<jphilips> all are welcome to comment in the spreadsheet as well or the github issue
<jphilips> bluesabre: is your 4.16 PPA updated once a week, so a new build will be coming out tomorrow?
<bluesabre> jphilips: it's all manual, but tomorrow is a Saturday, so good chance I'll get some updates in
<jphilips> sweet. thanks
<jphilips> does launchpad not have any automated means to run builds?
<bluesabre> Pretty much limited to on-commit (not ideal) or automating uploads from somewhere else
<bluesabre> bbl
<Unit193> bluesabre: Surprised you grabbed my -nocsd for your 4.16 repo.
#xubuntu-devel 2020-08-29
<knome> sorry again for not being able to make the meeting
<knome> i sent a mail to -devel with some comments and a half-suggestion that came to my mind
#xubuntu-devel 2020-08-30
<jphilips> anyone else have any opinions on this, so bluesabre can push it in - https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/pull/9
<ubot93> Pull 9 in Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings "Setting Manager: Add Sound entry to Hardware section" [Open]
