#xubuntu-devel 2011-05-30
<micahg> mr_pouit: so, I got most of the plugins sync'd, the remaining ones either need a merge or FTBFS, would you consider using dpkg-vendor and having xubuntu specific stuff in Debian?
<mr_pouit> micahg: I saw that, thanks for all the syncs! :)
<mr_pouit> for dpkg-vendor, I don't know, I'll have to see with Corsac
<mr_pouit> I'm not sure all deltas are worth that though
<mr_pouit> especially for very ubuntu specific changes (e.g. when the design team decide to cripple gtk)
<mr_pouit> and other "long-term" changes (e.g. different binary packages for tumbler) might evolve as upstream makes improvement (e.g. for tumbler, a gstreamer thumbnailer has been added in git, so the packaging split will not be needed anymore)
<mr_pouit> I guess, let's make a list of the ones that still have some ubuntu delta ;-)
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu community meeting in #xubuntu-devel in 5 hours (19:00 UTC). Everyone is invited to attend. Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<pleia2> charlie-tca: can you let my mail through on xubuntu-devel? I used the wrong email addy :\
<charlie-tca> I have to have cody-somerville do it. I am only admin on xubuntu-users
<charlie-tca> cody-somerville: help please!
<pleia2> oh ok
<pleia2> sent it yesterday, follow-up to drupal theme question
<charlie-tca> Oh, good. I was hoping you would have an answer to that one
<charlie-tca> Kernel is in now going to 3.0.0
<drc> Has Linus been talkinig to Patrick?
<charlie-tca> I don't know, but he made the decision to jump to 3.0 instead of -40
<drc> Yeah, I read that.
<pleia2> wouldn't 2.8 have made more sense?
<pleia2> nevermind, sense need not apply
<charlie-tca> I don't know. Apparently it has not been enough time for 2.8 yet
<charlie-tca> http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2011-05-30-006-41-NW-LF-KN
<drc> Woah, I haven't heard the term "bikesheding" in ages :)
<pleia2> lucky you :)
<charlie-tca> stick around, it does get used in Ubuntu every so often
<drc> Nah, Think I'll move to LMDE ;)
<pleia2> charlie-tca: no meeting for me again this week, I'm in canada visiting my sister
 * pleia2 will be out exploring edmonton!
<knome> nice
<pleia2> no updates though, still need to set up a wordpress test bed
<knome> have fun
<charlie-tca> no problem
<pleia2> knome: thanks :)
<charlie-tca> enjoy yourself
<knome> pleia2, i could do that
<knome> just doesn't make this non-sucky
<pleia2> knome: yeah, I figured one of us would, I am reinstalling one of my servers next weekend so it would be no problem for me to toss it in and give you admin
<pleia2> I was waiting to calm down from being annoyed at the suckiness ;)
<charlie-tca> +1 on the knome statement. It has been very frustrating
<knome> pleia2, takes me about 5mins to set up a wordpress installation :)
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> well, whichever one of us can, preferably in a place where we can both have ssh and wordpress admin
<knome> mm-hmm
<knome> that would be okay for me as well, but if you have your own server, that's maybe better
<pleia2> yeah, I have one that I specifically maintain for ubuntu stuff (even though it runs debian, sshh)
<knome> :)
 * pleia2 back to canadaing
<drc> beer, eh
<charlie-tca> :-)
<knome> beer, where?
<Soupermanito> bear?!
<knome> polar bears are here in the streets of helsinki
<Soupermanito> :P you know what a polar bear is?
<knome> i do.
<drc> Bah...another day, another bÃrked install :(
<knome> :P
<Soupermanito> its a bear who's mother is real and his father imaginary!
<knome> Soupermanito, psst, i'm his father
<Soupermanito> XD
<charlie-tca> drc: nothing is installing today: Ubuntu desktop images broken, Kubuntu desktop images broken, Xubuntu alternate and desktop images broken
<Soupermanito> D:
<drc> At least it's consistent.
<charlie-tca> Ubuntu and Kubuntu alternate images work
<drc> bah...off to visit sister (in hospital, not Edmonton, unfortunately)
<charlie-tca> !es
<ubottu> En la mayorÃ­a de canales de Ubuntu se habla sÃ³lo en inglÃ©s. Si busca ayuda en espaÃ±ol o charlar entra en el canal #ubuntu-es. Escribe "/join #ubuntu-es" (sin comillas) y dale a enter.
<charlie-tca> knome: can we add #xubuntu-es to that factoid? You are better at it than I am.
<charlie-tca> drc: how is your sister?
<drc> ill, but not currently life threatening
<charlie-tca> very good
<drc> She's getting old (nevermind that she's a year younger than I am)
<charlie-tca> I resemble old, too
 * charlie-tca been told he resembles elderly at times, too
 * drc positively states that although he is a curmudgeon, not he is *not* old. GOML!
<drc> charlie-tca: Is there somewhere I can check to see if the daily images are known to fail (like today) before I DL and try to install?  I don't mind the fail, but it's just a waste of time is it's a *known thing*.
<charlie-tca> This normally should tell you - http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/cd-build-logs/xubuntu/oneiric/
<charlie-tca> but you can also ask here. I normally run them as soon as I can sync them.
<drc> But that could be after tea time :)
<charlie-tca> I also look at http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/      daily and daily-live      to see if new images were even created.
<charlie-tca> Looking at daily-live shows we have not even created ov
<charlie-tca> oneiric images yet
<drc> yup, just alternate
<charlie-tca> daily is the alternate image and daily-live is the desktop
<charlie-tca> so, daily-live will fail until we get an image
<drc> That log file is a large file, anything I'm looking for in particular (as in: I can search for)?
<charlie-tca> normally search for ERROR
<charlie-tca> or error, in the logs, but I don't think the alternate image is failing there
<charlie-tca> at least, I don't see the error in there
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu community meeting in #xubuntu-devel in 25 minutes. Everyone is invited to attend. Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
 * charlie-tca looks around for those attending the meeting
 * micahg pokes his head up
 * drc arrives early so he can get a seat down front.
<drc> closer to the refreshments!
 * charlie-tca thinks at least the front row isn't empty now
<charlie-tca> Welcome to the Xubuntu Community Meeting!
 * micahg could use some refreshments
<charlie-tca> We have a few things to discuss today, the full agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<mr_pouit> o hai
 * charlie-tca gives micahg a soda
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit made it, too!
 * micahg thanks charlie-tca for the soda
 * holstein lurks as well
<charlie-tca> Here is the agenda, for 
<charlie-tca> those who can't get the web page to work today
<charlie-tca> Old business - all
<charlie-tca>     email the ML with proposed meeting days and times, Mon, Tues only for days
<charlie-tca>     knome is to set up a tele-conference of some type to discuss marketing - carried forward 
<charlie-tca> Team updates - Team Leads
<charlie-tca>     Packaging & Development
<charlie-tca>     Bug Triage & Testing
<charlie-tca>     Website & Marketing
<charlie-tca>     Artwork
<charlie-tca>     Documentation 
<charlie-tca> Announcements - Project Lead
<charlie-tca>     TeamReports need to be updated
<charlie-tca>         https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/TeamReports 
<charlie-tca> Governance structure - all
<charlie-tca> Any Other Business - all/anyone 
<charlie-tca> First Item: email the ML with proposed meeting days and times, Mon, Tues only for days
<charlie-tca> that isn't right. 
<charlie-tca> We can not hold meetings on Tuesday or Wednesday
<charlie-tca> I suppose the easiest solution to it would be to hold every other meeting on Sunday?
<charlie-tca> All opposed?
<charlie-tca> comments as to best time?
<charlie-tca> by the silence, do we assume any time is fine for everybody?
<micahg> I'm pretty open on Sunday
<charlie-tca> Okay, proposed:  Hold the meetings on Mondays at 19:-00 and Sunday at 22:00 alternating weeks?
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: will that be too late for you?
<charlie-tca> I am hoping for maximum participation if we get times that anyone interested can attend
<mr_pouit> no, it'll be okay
<charlie-tca> Any objections?
<charlie-tca> motion passed by majority silence; Next weeks meeting will be Sunday at 22:00 UTC
<charlie-tca> next item -   knome is to set up a tele-conference of some type to discuss marketing - carried forward 
<charlie-tca> knome: Have you had a chance to think on this?
<charlie-tca> Marketing plays a key role in almost every aspect of a distribution, so this is an important item for us.
<charlie-tca> We need to get more people than me and knome involved in marketing, please?
<drc> Define "marketing"
<drc> please")
<charlie-tca> This includes news releases, blogs, release parties, 
<holstein> is there a marketing team? or wiki page?
<charlie-tca> anything we can do to promote Xubuntu, including maybe open week, developer week, etc.
<charlie-tca> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Marketing
 * holstein bookmarking
<charlie-tca> Team updates - Team Leads
<charlie-tca>      Packaging & Development
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: updates?
<charlie-tca> hm, silence is not GOLDEN today
<mr_pouit> a few syncs/merges by me, for the main work: almost all panel plugins synced thanks to micahg ;-)
<mr_pouit> sorry, laggy wifi
<charlie-tca> I hate those lags
<charlie-tca> Anything we can do about xfce4-notifyd : Conflicts: notification-daemon so we can get the alpha1 images to work?
<mr_pouit> something is pulling notification-daemon, but I didn't really investigate what
<micahg> I think we're pulling in the GNOME stack again
<mr_pouit> probably a new dep since natty, because it was fine at that time
<charlie-tca> yup
<mr_pouit> yeah, very likely
<charlie-tca> we have alpha1 this thursday, so if we can fix this, we get an image. At least go for the alternate image this time
<charlie-tca> desktop images look bad for everybody today
<micahg> can we switch to lightdm or is that too crazy to change? 
<micahg> that should get rid of some of the deps
<charlie-tca> Ubuntu already has, haven't they?
<micahg> no, blocked on MIR, that doesn't affect us
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: what do we need to do to switch from gdm to lightdm?
<mr_pouit> that it works ;p
<micahg> it does, the sample greeter is good enough to log in with
<charlie-tca> Can t test it until we have a working image
<mr_pouit> (I've heard bad things from a pkg-xfce debian maintainer who has tested it, not sure it was the latest release ;-)
<micahg> well, I have had 0.3.5 logging into xubuntu on oneiric w/out issue
<mr_pouit> okay, then I guess it's fine
<micahg> can't speak to working on an image though
<mr_pouit> no pam/ck/pk issue?
<micahg> wfm, shows a user list, but so does gdm by default
<mr_pouit> eh, lag again >.<
<micahg> I haven't stress tested it yet
<charlie-tca> It is not forcing you to start gnome-keyring or anything?
<micahg> once I login, it uses gnome-keyring
<charlie-tca> If mr_pouit is okay with it, I am willing to fight with it too. It will help us get the bugs out of it.
<micahg> oh, can we kick parole out of recommends?
<mr_pouit> yeah, we should definitely switch to lightdm, but before alpha1, that's seems a bit difficult
<charlie-tca> where do I find the seeds for Xubuntu? I need to know that too
<charlie-tca> micahg: How about we switch right after alpha1 then, since we need to make an image work real soon like.
<charlie-tca> hm, my lag just went up to 1 second
<micahg> that's fine with me, I just don't remember what was pulling in unity
<mr_pouit> micahg: it's the default "media" player after all (gmusicbrowser is only for music collections)
<micahg> mr_pouit: orly?  I thought gmusicbrowser was supposed to do it all
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca: launchpad.net/ubuntu-seeds, somewhere in code (xubuntu.oneiric)
<charlie-tca> Thanks, mr_pouit 
<charlie-tca> micahg: no, gmusicbrowser can not play a cd
<charlie-tca> or a movier, either
<micahg> ah, ok, I missed that then
<charlie-tca> Isn't parole a movie player?
<micahg> charlie-tca: re seeds: https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/ubuntu-seeds/xubuntu.oneiric
<charlie-tca> Thanks
<charlie-tca> so, parole will need to stay
<charlie-tca> exaile was replaced by gmusicbrowser, right?
<charlie-tca> Moving along in spite of our lags, next topic is Bug Triage & Testing 
<charlie-tca> I have SouperManito and beardygnome signed up to test starting Tuesday. and I don't show either one here today :-(
<charlie-tca> bugs might be getting ahead of us again, but mr_pouit is doing good trying to stay on top of the most serious ones.
<charlie-tca> Questions for anything covered so far?
<holstein> is there a testing wiki?
<charlie-tca> yes, there is
<holstein> i plan on running a test install ASAP
<charlie-tca> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing
<charlie-tca> I been trying each day to get the alternate images to install. 
<charlie-tca> The good??? news is Ubuntu and Kubuntu desktop images also fail today :-(
<holstein> :/
<holstein> its early
<charlie-tca> yes, it is, but with that alpha1 on June 2, it should be working today
<charlie-tca> That brings us to Artwork 
<ochosi> right
<charlie-tca> Xfce now has a design team starting, which could really be a *big* benefit to us
<charlie-tca> go ahead, ochosi 
<ochosi> sry, people i'm late
<ochosi> hope i didn't miss too much important stuff
<charlie-tca> looks right on time, to me.
<ochosi> so yeah, i started a design initiative in xfce
<ochosi> together with JPohlmann
<ochosi> it's mostly about optimizing the UI
<ochosi> in general anyone can participate, but we haven't announced it yet on the xubuntu mailinglists
<ochosi> i think the xfce-guys are enough for a start
<ochosi> and then we'll see how it goes
<ochosi> other than that i've been experimenting with small improvements to greybird
<ochosi> but nothing spectacular yet
<ochosi> there is a compact xfwm4 theme now
<ochosi> it's not complete yet, but usable
<ochosi> it's only 18px high, for those who want to save on vertical pixels
<ochosi> about the xfce design stuff
<ochosi> you're welcome to participate
<ochosi> wiki page is here: https://wiki.xfce.org/design/start
<charlie-tca> I think any optimizations upstream are going to benefit us, and might even mean less work at our level.
<ochosi> and feel free to contact me or jannis in #xfce-dev
<ochosi> yes, the kind of changes we're planning (and doing) should really happen upstream
<charlie-tca> Any changes for greybird that we should be aware of?
<ochosi> not really
<ochosi> at least not at the moment
<charlie-tca> Any questions about artwork or upstream design?
<charlie-tca> Comments about anything discussed so far?
<charlie-tca> Announcements
<charlie-tca> TeamReports need to be updated - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/TeamReports
<charlie-tca> This is the end of May, please feel free to add whatever you are doing for Xubuntu to this report.
<charlie-tca> Alpha1 will be oversized, please don't report bugs about that
<charlie-tca> The next linux kernel will be called linux 3.0.0 instead of 2.6.40
<micahg> charlie-tca: actually, just 3.0 :)
<mr_pouit> huhu
<charlie-tca> We do have a support channel for spanish support, that is not included in the !es factoid
<charlie-tca> It is #xubuntu-es, and feel free to direct those requiring support to it.
<charlie-tca> Dapper Drake is EOL on June 1. Doesn't really affect us, but will affect those running a server with it.
<micahg> \o/
<charlie-tca> We are seeing an increase in users in #xubuntu. Let's try to 
<charlie-tca> give them the best support we can. I know we are doing that already, and it really is great to see!
<ochosi> mr_pouit: what are the chances we get the thunar startup-lag-fix in natty?
<mr_pouit> there's no fix currently
<charlie-tca> Governance structure
<charlie-tca> At this time, until we have more participation, I do not see us trying to set up a governing council. I think I said that a couple of months ago, but want to make sure it is known.,
<charlie-tca> I will be adding to the Stradegy Document how to select a new Project Lead by vote, though. 
<charlie-tca> hm, there's that marketing thing again. increase participation in Xubuntu
<ochosi> mr_pouit: i thought there's one in git?
<charlie-tca> Thunar 1.2.2 was supposed to have the fix, I think
<ochosi> mr_pouit: i meant that: http://git.xfce.org/xfce/thunar/commit/?id=5ce61f48171c9b95e8b89e0d2c53a7bfbeb9ac93
<mr_pouit> ochosi: it's still not ideal, check xfce bug 7373, that was reopened
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 7373 in slocate (Debian) "CAN-2003-0848: heap overflow in slocate" [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/7373
<mr_pouit> ubottu: no, not that one
<ubottu> mr_pouit: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<ochosi> oh, ok, i didn't notice it was re-opened
<charlie-tca> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7373
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 7373 in general "g_file_new_for_uri ("network://") seems to slow down Thunar's startup" [Normal,Reopened]
<charlie-tca> Any Other Business - Anyone
<charlie-tca> Any one have anything to bring up? This is like an open mic time
<charlie-tca> Thank you all for attending this meeting. Next meeting will be Sunday June 5 at 22:00 UTC.
<charlie-tca> LEe
<micahg> for open mic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykwqXuMPsoc
<charlie-tca> Oh, before I forget, apps for Oneiric?
<charlie-tca> Do we need further discussion on what is going into it?
<charlie-tca> I want applications decided as early as possible
<ochosi> micahg: this is not office-save :)
<charlie-tca> someone want to go ahead and email the ML to get the applications picked?
<charlie-tca> or are we all happy with what we have in natty and won't change anything except gdm to lightdm?
<micahg> +1 I think
<charlie-tca> Great!
<charlie-tca> Glad we got a h
<charlie-tca> happy bunch of people here.
<charlie-tca> let's test this week! 
<Unit193> Would we be able to add pastebinit?
<micahg> mr_pouit: BTW, you can drop the browser plugin from parole as a recommends, Debian dropped and and so did we when I sync'd it
<charlie-tca> Unit193: as a default in a menu?
<drc> holstein: You still around?
<Unit193> charlie-tca: It's a cli app that's nice for support
<holstein> drc: o/
<holstein> whats up?
<drc> \o/
<micahg> mr_pouit: actually, that poses a problem since we don't have a media plugin for the browser anymore :(
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit, micahg : can we add pastebinit as a default installed application without a menu item?
<micahg> charlie-tca: sure, I think :)
<drc> You were talking about running a install test...was this a daily or periodic install test?
<micahg> charlie-tca: although, we might have a space problem, thunderbird and firefox will bulk up this cycle (chrisccoulson is looking on how to slim them down), lightdm should give us some space though
<charlie-tca> We have a person in #xubuntu needs help with his installed 11.04 sticking at busybox
<charlie-tca> We aren't hurting yet for space, are we?
<drc> holstein: You were talking about running a install test...was this a daily or periodic install test?
<mr_pouit> yeah,we could add pastebinit if it's useful
<holstein> drc: i have selfish motivations
<charlie-tca> it is useful, when troubleshooting
<holstein> ubuntustudio is moving to XFCE
<holstein> and thats why i want to have xubuntu up and running ASAP
<holstein> im looking forward to US being able to leech from you guys for a bit ;)
<drc> holstein: Yeah, I read that somewhere.
<charlie-tca> yes, we should welcome UbuntuStudio over to Xubuntu this cycle!
<holstein> and i hope soon we can be of the size team that can contribute back :)
<charlie-tca> and any help we can give them will be greatly appreciated, too.
<mr_pouit> micahg: don't speak about that, I still don't know why the upstream dev decided to drop it :[
<holstein> yeah, we are really excited about the switch
<charlie-tca> And this is a good reminder that what we do does affect more than just Xubuntu.
<micahg> mr_pouit: ok, well if it used mozilla specific interfaces, that would be a good reason, if it was pure NPAPI, no idea
<charlie-tca> xfce bug 7373
<ubottu> xfce bug 7373 in general "g_file_new_for_uri ("network://") seems to slow down Thunar's startup" [Normal,Reopened] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7373
<micahg> \o/
<drc> Don't forget about the BusyBox user in #xubuntu (I have no idea how to help him, or I would)
<charlie-tca> That's right. mr_pouit has about a two to three minute lag, so I wanted to make sure we didn't miss anything from him before ending
<Unit193> It drops to busybox if it can't boot anything else
<charlie-tca> He is dropping to busybox every few boots
<charlie-tca> If someone could help him out, it would be great
<charlie-tca> I know enough to suggest an fsck
<charlie-tca> Okay, I will get these minutes written up asap, and we will see everybody again on Sunday
<charlie-tca> Thanks for coming 
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: thanks for putting with us with that lag of yours. 
<mr_pouit> yeah, sorry /o\
<charlie-tca> np, 
<charlie-tca> no problem
<charlie-tca> As long as we know to wait long enough, it works :-)
<ochosi> charlie-tca: still around?
<charlie-tca> yes
<ochosi> i'm considering darkening the panel background a bit in greybird, what do you think about that?
<ochosi> (menus would stay the same color)
<charlie-tca> I think it will be harder to use
<charlie-tca> I will have to go back to clearlooks then
<ochosi> in what respect?
<charlie-tca> The contrast becomes lower, I think is the words
<ochosi> mm, not sure i get what you mean
<charlie-tca> but I am not sure. I could not use bluebird for more than an hour or so, 
<charlie-tca> it was too dark 
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> would you mind trying what i'm proposing?
<charlie-tca> sure, always willing to try
<charlie-tca> and sometimes willing to say it is good, for most users, too.
<ochosi> k, i'll hack together a new panel.rc and post it for you in a sec
<charlie-tca> Okay
<charlie-tca> I only seen one or two compaints on greybird so far, but then again, they never complained about bluebird either until greybird came out.
<ochosi> what complaints did you see?
<charlie-tca> too dark, hard to read the information on it
<charlie-tca> which made no sense to me
<charlie-tca> and when asked to clarify, they go away
<ochosi> hmm
<ochosi> ok, that's not really the kind of criticism i'm looking for :)
<charlie-tca> I know. But if they refuse to respond when questioned about it, I don't really count it as meaningful.
<ochosi> mhm
<ochosi> this is the panel.rc
<ochosi> http://pastebin.com/pmigKJQg
<ochosi> you know what you have to do to use it, right?
<charlie-tca> no?
<ochosi> k
<charlie-tca> explain again, please
<ochosi> copy it to /usr/share/greybird/gtk-2.0/apps
<ochosi> and then run "xfce4-panel --restart"
<charlie-tca> okay
<ochosi> that should do the trick
<ochosi> awwh, fail
<ochosi> copy it to "/usr/share/themes/greybird/gtk-2.0/apps
<charlie-tca> that sounds right
<ochosi> it most likely needs some more tweaking on the prelight and selected colors
<ochosi> i mainly focussed on the panel-bg color for now
<charlie-tca> looks too dark to me
<charlie-tca> weather clouds blank out, timer is invisible again, 
<ochosi> so the font gets hard to read or what's the problem?
<charlie-tca> users will complain that the text is too bright
<charlie-tca> no, some of the icons wash out
<ochosi> would you mind posting a screenshot?
<charlie-tca> for me, the text is bright, but easily readable
<ochosi> i can darken the text as well, that's no problem
<charlie-tca> I will screenshot the panel
<ochosi> k, thanks
<ochosi> then it's easier for me to get what you mean :)
<charlie-tca> http://imagebin.org/155982
<charlie-tca> but the images are brighter than on my screen
<charlie-tca> dim the left icon (magnifying glass) and weather and timer bar a lot 
<charlie-tca> They aren't really brightly visible
<ochosi> the magnifying glass is appfinder
<ochosi> i think the standard logo for the menu would be ok (it's a lot brighter)
<charlie-tca> right, but it is almost faded out in reality
<ochosi> yeah, i understand
<ochosi> the weather icon is problematic, i agree
<charlie-tca> It doesn't work if only some things are visible, though
<charlie-tca> users can put anything on the panel
<ochosi> hmm, yeah, but they can always put something on the panel that has the same color as the panel
<ochosi> and that *never* works 
<charlie-tca> and the stupid timer Is that black bar between the mixer and the weather
<charlie-tca> true
<ochosi> yeah, i didn't increase the contrast for the timer
<ochosi> the timer is fixable
<charlie-tca> okay
<ochosi> appfinder is also fixable
<ochosi> the main problem would be the weather plugin i guess
<charlie-tca> like I say, users will probably like it, if the text is dimmed a bit
<ochosi> so the text is too bright now?
<charlie-tca> and the selection is darkened
<ochosi> mhm, yeah, the selection needs more contrast, i agree
<charlie-tca> text is too bright for most people, I think
<ochosi> k
<charlie-tca> I can't say for sure, I could use it this way, myself.
<charlie-tca> It just seems bright to me
<ochosi> hmm, i just checked, it's not really white
<charlie-tca> let me shoot the bottom panels and see what it does
<ochosi> i actually thought it would be FFFFFF, but it's F5F5F5
<charlie-tca> my clock is FFFFE0
<ochosi> mm, slightly yellowish
<charlie-tca> http://imagebin.org/155986
<charlie-tca> yes, I find the slight yellow tint easier than white on my eyes
<ochosi> i can add a slight blue tint if you like
<charlie-tca> My xchat  and terminal is the same
<ochosi> i mean to the rest of the panel text
<ochosi> ah ok
<charlie-tca> It is normally so slight, no one can see the color change
<drc> ochosi: you want another panel screenshot?
<ochosi> drc: sure, go ahead, but i'm just about to pastebin a newer version ;)
<drc> I'll wait
<ochosi> charlie-tca, drc: ok, here goes a revised version: http://pastebin.com/nBb01Jkw
 * drc was evesdropping :)
<charlie-tca> putting it in
<ochosi> drc: i'm always happy to get more feedback, so feel free to eavesdrop anytime ;)
<drc> The panel text *is* better
#xubuntu-devel 2011-05-31
<ochosi> k, that's good to hear
<ochosi> i added some highlight, so in fact the text of active windows in the panel brightens when you hover it
<drc> http://imagebin.org/155988
<charlie-tca> you changed something
<ochosi> drc: wow, your window-borders are quite something ;)
<drc> Appearence = greybird, WM - BAsix
<ochosi> charlie-tca: yes, the selection and prelight of window-buttons is darker now, also the panel text is a tad darker
<drc> I dislike rounded windows, always have :)
<charlie-tca> We can work with it
<charlie-tca> The selection and the active window use the same shade?
<drc> ochosi: I actually like the "hover" change
<charlie-tca> The panel text is good now
<ochosi> charlie-tca: no, active window and selection are not the same shade, but the difference is small, hard to see on bad screens. shall i make it more visible?
<charlie-tca> you should have a different color for select and active 
<charlie-tca> yes, they need to be different. If I select the workspace next to the active workspace, I can't tell which one is selected
<charlie-tca> you know what I mean. title/workspace, it just blends together
<charlie-tca> but it will work
<ochosi> mhm, yeah, i'll make it more contrasty
<ochosi> one sec
<drc> ochosi: When I change WM bow I get http://imagebin.org/155990  Never did before.
<ochosi> hmm, i'm wondering whether to make the active or the prelight darker
<charlie-tca> Is the no separation for titles intended?  http://imagebin.org/155991
<ochosi> drc: what's the black box?
<ochosi> charlie-tca: what separation do you mean exactly?
<drc> Thats the change :)   Putting back original panel.rc to check
<charlie-tca> There is no separation between titles now, they blend into each other
<charlie-tca> in that last screenshot. I thought they were separated before, but maybe not
<ochosi> charlie-tca: hm, i didn't do anything about that
<ochosi> charlie-tca: that was probably because "Global Time" has a shorter title, therefore more "padding" to the next item
<charlie-tca> okay, then it is just the contrast from active to selected that has issues
<ochosi> k, try this: http://pastebin.com/tAWkvD8w
<ochosi> (it's a new approach to the active/prelight problem)
<charlie-tca> I like that
<ochosi> good :)
<ochosi> how about the timer-bar?
<charlie-tca> did you drive drc nuts now
<ochosi> visible enough?
<charlie-tca> timer bar is hard to see
 * ochosi hopes not
<ochosi> k, i'll have a look at the timer bar now
<charlie-tca> I would like the timer to work right again, but I think those days are gone
<drc> ochosi: I like the latest...but I'm still having problems when I change WM's....
<ochosi> charlie-tca: what's not working about the timer?
<ochosi> drc: don't think that's related to the theme-change at all
<drc> OK, let me try something
<charlie-tca> It has text next to the bar, that used to show up
<charlie-tca> nop
<charlie-tca> It has text field to the right of the black bar. You used to click the bar itself to get the timer properties. Now you click the empty panel space to the right of the bar to get properties for the timer
<charlie-tca> That is also the click spot to run the timer, instead of the bar
<charlie-tca> also, the bar is supposed to show the time used up, it just stays black all the time now
<ochosi> hm, sounds like a borked and unmaintained plugin to me
<charlie-tca> yeah, I know
<ochosi> it's not installed by default, right?
<charlie-tca> It went whacky for 4.8, and it just stays that way now. But at least it is a timer, and it does tell when the time expired.
<charlie-tca> You can see the time used up too when you hover over it
<charlie-tca> no, not default
<charlie-tca> Can't install something so screwed up, can we?
<charlie-tca> I can't be the only user out there, though
<ochosi> doesn't sound like a good idea, no :)
<charlie-tca> It's like the world clock. I heard a user go through great pains to get gnome clock because it doesn't use a window. It just sits on the desktop. 
<charlie-tca> I prefer the window of orage, I think. At least I can find it
<ochosi> mhm
<charlie-tca> You want me to try this for a day or so and see what I think now?
<ochosi> yeah, i think that'd be a good thing
<charlie-tca> I can do that. It drives me nuts pretty fast when I don't like the colors
<ochosi> in fact the progressbars also darkened for me with the other panel color-changes
<ochosi> so the contrast should be about the same
<ochosi> as before
<charlie-tca> what progressbars?
<ochosi> i use the network-monitor
<ochosi> it also uses progressbars
<ochosi> like the timer
<charlie-tca> oh, mine don't like they changed, but maybe?
<charlie-tca> Will the murrine going away thing hurt us?
<ochosi> the progressbar-background is the same on your last screenshot as the active window, which is "charlie - File Man.." http://imagebin.org/155991
<ochosi> murrine going away?
<charlie-tca> I think they are trying to get rid of it now, something about gtk3 and gnome3?
<ochosi> oh dear, that would hurt us badly
<charlie-tca> or am I confused again?
<ochosi> i guess they'll maybe stall development of the engine
<ochosi> since it's done by an ubuntu employee
<ochosi> but they can't quickly throw it out of the window
<charlie-tca> or maybe it won't be there by default?
<ochosi> because everything that uses gtk2 will need murrine
<ochosi> it's ubuntu's standard engine
<ochosi> and we can always ship it by default in xubuntu
<charlie-tca> yeah, that's the one I heard won't be in Oneiric
<ochosi> so oneiric will be gtk3-only in ubuntu?
<charlie-tca> I don't know the answer to that
<charlie-tca> We will be gtk2 only, though
<charlie-tca> ouch, what a mess this one is going to be, huh?
<ochosi> yeah...
<ochosi> that's why i said, it'd be good to have basic gtk3 support in greybird
<ochosi> i hope i have the time for that
<charlie-tca> We even had to upgrade to at-spi2 for accessibility this time
<charlie-tca> heh, that's why we keep at it!
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit said we are staying away from gtk3 as much as as possible this cycle.
<ochosi> sure, but users can always install gtk3 apps later and then it'll look like using a programme via wine
<charlie-tca> Lol
<charlie-tca> going to be a fun time
<micahg> charlie-tca: well, the shared infrastructure will probably be GTK3, the Xfce stuff will probably be GTK2
<charlie-tca> no probably, has to be gtk2
<charlie-tca> Xfce doesn't support gtk3 at all yet
<ochosi> micahg: you think they'll already port stuff like software-center to gtk3?
<micahg> ochosi: yes
<ochosi> uargh
<ochosi> then we *need* greybird to support gtk3
<micahg> ochosi: I can check tomorow
<ochosi> micahg: is there a good/easy way to use/test gtk3 in natty?
<ochosi> something like the widget-factory for gtk3 would be good
<micahg> ochosi: sure, there's gtk3 in natty
<ochosi> any app you'd recommend for testing purposes?
 * micahg checks what's there
<ochosi> thx
<charlie-tca> Okay, got to go rest my arm and eyes. 
<micahg> ochosi: there is a gtk-3-examples package
<ochosi> sure, thanks for testing :)
<charlie-tca> will test this new theme and let you know what happens
<charlie-tca> no problem
<ochosi> yep
<ochosi> micahg: wondering what's up with the "-" between gtk and 3 :)
<micahg> ochosi: there's also the gnome3 PPA
<ochosi> yeah, but i heard that's a can of worms
<ochosi> i'm not looking for total breakage, just a small environment to test theming ;)
<micahg> ochosi: it is, I'd suggest testing GTK3 in oneiric in a VM
<drc> ochosi: what's the latest pastebin for panel.rc (i.e., since I dropped out)?
<ochosi> drc: http://pastebin.com/tAWkvD8w
<micahg> ochosi: or you can backport a GTK3 app to natty if it doesn't have a lot of build-deps
<ochosi> micahg: yeah, i'll do that as soon as i have a basic gtk3 style ready
<drc> ochosi: I like the latest panel.rc :)
<ochosi> thanks
<ochosi> keep repeating that and hopefully it'll be default in oneiric ;)
<drc> Now if you can only get rid of the #FFFFFF in gtkrc's  base_color: to make it something less glaring :)
<ochosi> that was in fact requested by charlie-tca if i remember correctly
<ochosi> it wasn't pure white before
<ochosi> i think it was something like f1f1f1
<charlie-tca> f5
<ochosi> right, it might've been f5f5f5
<drc> Don't remember...I've been in and out so much (trying to figure out where that black box was coming from (it's related to xfce4-panel --replace somehow) I proably have missed most of the conversation.
<ochosi> we can test other subtle color changes during this cycle imo
<drc> ochosi: selected_fg_color:#f5f5f maybe...I'm pretty sure base_color was #FFFFFF (but I won't bet the farm on that)
<drc> ochosi: I'm usually here and more than will to test
<drc> darn it, I didn't save the original gtkrc...must remember to do that next time :(
<ochosi> you can always pull it from git
<drc> never used git, got a URL that will give me the basics?
<ochosi> you don't have to use it if you don't want to, you can also simply download the files here: https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/tree/master/gtk-2.0
<drc> base_color:#FFFFFF" :)
<drc> nah nah nah nah
<charlie-tca> so it ain't my fault?
<ochosi> you're only referring to the panel?
<ochosi> i was actually talking about something else i think, i mixed it up
<drc> ochosi: Not the panel, the base color of the windows
<charlie-tca> so it is my fault again?
<ochosi> i just realized i was talking about the general text color, cause that wasn't black as in #000 in greybird before, but something like a very dark grey
<ochosi> charlie-tca: nothing is your fault :)
<drc> charlie-tca: everything is your fault...you're the boss :)
<drc> You can delegate authority but never responsibility. First rule an officer learns :)
<charlie-tca> well, that certainly cleared that up!
<drc> s/officer/leader/
<ochosi> charlie-tca: what do you think of drc's suggestion to tune down the base-color of the theme a bit?
<drc> Anyway, the request to lessen the glare on base_color is still there.  My poor old eyes.
<charlie-tca> in the panel or the windows?
<drc> windows
<drc> imo, the panel is fine now
<charlie-tca> ochosi: the glare gets worse with a darker panel
<charlie-tca> it seems to make the white window background brighter
<ochosi> brighter than the current FFF? ;)
<charlie-tca> yes
<charlie-tca> it brightens when the panels darken, optical illusion
<charlie-tca> makes it seem brighter
<drc> I actually replace it with #EBEFF3, which it the color of the left panel in thunar (it was easy to grab)
<drc> Have I mentioned lately, I'm lazy ?
<charlie-tca> how do you do that?
<drc> in /usr/share/themes/greybird/gtkrc, iirc
<charlie-tca> I am not lazy, just a simple user... ;-)
<ochosi> would you want to test a different base color?
<charlie-tca> If I can figure it out, I will yellow it
<ochosi> hehe
<drc> ochosi: I'll test anything you want (I'll try to remember to make a copy of the original file this time)
<ochosi> charlie-tca: just change the base_color value in line 6 to the yellow you want
<drc> charlie-tca: It's base_color:#FFFFFF, towords the top of the file
<ochosi> drc: k, well since you know how to adjust the gtkrc file, i'll just tell you the values to test, cause i'm lazy too ;)
<drc> :)
<drc> charlie-tca: /usr/share/themes/greybird/gtk-2.0/gtkrc
<ochosi> drc: hm, when changing the base-color the scrollbars won't blend in anymore... at least not without a fair amount of work
<drc> true
<drc> I'm still trying to figure that one out, but it's eluded me so far
<ochosi> trying to figure what out?
<charlie-tca> and how do I make that change take effect now?
<ochosi> charlie-tca: change themes back and forth
<charlie-tca> okay
<drc> but at least I don't have the glare in the main part of the windows.  For a single user it's no problem, but as a default, it's a problem.
<charlie-tca> nm, it took by itself
<ochosi> drc: my screen automatically dims itself depending on room-brightness
<drc> ochosi: lucky you
<charlie-tca> been trying to do that for a very long time
<charlie-tca> ochosi: it worked
<ochosi> good
<charlie-tca> now it doesn't glare at me
<drc> charlie-tca: what vale did you set?
<ochosi> drc: i can give you what i have on the scrollbar-integration code, but i have to say i hit a dead end there. it's not perfect
<charlie-tca> FFFFE8
<charlie-tca> might be too yellow, though
<charlie-tca> FFFFF4 is better
<drc> ochosi: If you
<drc> If you hit a dead end, I'm sure I would have no clue whatsoever, I'm just a untalented but stubborn user.
<ochosi> here's my dead end: http://imagebin.org/156003
<ochosi> the scrollbar on the left integrates color-wise with thunar's sidebar
<ochosi> but the trough of the scrollbar has a tiny outline that i can't seem to get rid of
<drc> Still, it's better than the terminal scroll bar :)
<ochosi> why? the terminal scrollbar is totally integrated and intentional
<ochosi> (at least with a terminal with 000 bg-color)
<drc> Well, can you guess what I did?  :)
<drc> black...yuk!
<charlie-tca> heh
<ochosi> furthermore it's easy to get rid of it, just comment the line from gtkrc
<ochosi> in fact there was a plan to do something like new default terminal-colors
<ochosi> but as often there wasn't enough time/energy
<drc> well, well, well.  Didn't see that line way down at the bottom.  Thanks.
<ochosi> np
<drc> Time to document in my notebook all these changes for the next time I have to re-install.
<ochosi> better help us/me to fix them for the next release
<drc> It's almost a certainty that I will have to reinstall before Oct :(
<drc> ochosi: Like I said, I'm here, I'm available (to the best of my limited abilities)
<ochosi> still, if we fix stuff in greybird until then you can simply pull it from git
<drc> Keeping a notebook is an old old habit.
<ochosi> it's not bad, i'm just trying to motivate you to contribute ;)
<drc> charlie-tca: I just thought of something...Soup* (can't remember his full nick) was one of the people that brought up moving the community meeting to another day.  I think it was because he used his university connection.  I'm not sure that he'll be at the university on a Sunday.
<drc> ochosi: Take a look at trough_shades in gtkrc.  Try setting them to 1.0 and 1.0, for example. 
<drc> Oh, I'm talking about the window scrollbars
<drc> Nevdermind...It looks real good with my darker colors, but not so much with the default colors
<ochosi> what looks good?
<drc> lert me play some more
<drc> Thought I had something.... but I'm not sure
<ochosi> screenshot?
<ochosi> drc: this is the code for the thunar-sidebar: http://pastebin.com/X0KUJD52
<ochosi> see all the commented lines, these equal my failed approaches
<drc> http://imagebin.org/156011
<ochosi> what exactly do you want to do?
<charlie-tca> drc: you are correct. We will have to check with him to find out
<drc> I'm tryinig to tie the scrollbar trough into the color scheme of the window border, so that whatever color you end up making the window irself, it won't matter
<ochosi> oh, you mean like in bluebird?
<drc> dunno, let me look at bluebird:)
<drc> yeah, more or less
<ochosi> guess then it's best for you to check out the scrollbar-code of bluebird
<drc> So I've been sitting here trying all sorts of things that you already know...sheesh :)
<drc> That would work too
<ochosi> especially important for your idea is the "within-bevel" option (look for it in bluebird)
<charlie-tca> drc: and we really appreciate your attempts to help, too
<charlie-tca> okay this yellow is not working. When the lines alternate colors, I get bright yellow 
<ochosi> theming isn't easy, theme/system-wide color changes have quite many effects
<charlie-tca> now you tell me
<ochosi> ;)
<charlie-tca> I knew it wasn't easy, but did not realize the effects
<ochosi> now you probably understand how painful it is when you have a good idea, then implement it and suddenly everyone starts shouting: "my favorite app doesn't look like i prefer it anymore"
<charlie-tca> I knew that one already too. That's why I try not to do that too much. 
<charlie-tca> Okay, I will try F4FFFF for a bit now
<drc> ochosi: What was the reasoning behind the change from Bluebirds trough coloring (iirc, Greybird was based on Bluebird?)to what ended up in Greybird (If you don't mind my asking)?
<ochosi> drc: no, you can ask as much and whatever you want
<ochosi> i just felt that having the scrollbar inside the scrolled area is more natural
<drc> You're proably right, I never thought about it until I started playing around with colors and saw the result :)
<drc> They are much less obtrusive...sort of like Unity's scrollbars outside the window, You don't think aboiut them until you need them.
<ochosi> much of it is a question of experience and well, personal taste
<drc> yup
<drc> While we're talking about greybird, the *one* thing I really don't like about it (even above rounded window tops) is I cannot tell at a glance which is the active window, the difference between active and inactive is just too subtle.  There I said it :)
<astraljava> I have that problem on many, many themes. Like on Ubuntu Studio (which is where I'm hailing from, btw.) :)
<charlie-tca> I said that a long time back
<drc> Other than all the things we've talked about tonight, it's perfect.
<astraljava> Hoping to see a change this time around.
<charlie-tca> oh, you mean the window title bar?
<drc> charlie-tca: yes, was I not specific enough?
<charlie-tca> just ask ochosi what the possiblity of changing the color of the inactive title bar is
<drc> Nah, I've bugged him enough for one night, maybe tomorrow.
<ochosi> hm, yeah, i wouldn't mind changing that a bit
<ochosi> in fact i already did in the compact xfwm4 theme i recently added to greybird's repo
<ochosi> it's still pretty subtle though
<drc> ochosi: Maybe just a little darker on the active title bar text?
<ochosi> and what i really want to revise is the inactive text
<ochosi> hmm, the problem with doing that is that the window-controls should be similar color-wise
<drc> It doesn't need to be a different color (like Basix's is), just to able to tell at a galnce
<ochosi> hm, tbh i'm a bit too tired tonight to really try something with that now, bug me again some other day and we can do some experiments :)
<charlie-tca> well, now that I made my desktop plain ugly... ;-)
 * drc writes that down in his notebook :)
<ochosi> charlie-tca: hehe, well i guess you still remember the few steps to change it back
<charlie-tca> yeah, delete the theme and update 
<ochosi> charlie-tca: and most importantly: don't blame the fact that your desktop is ugly on the darker panel experiment ;)
<drc> yeah: sudo cp gtkrc.ORIGINAL gtkrc :)
<charlie-tca> well, I guess it isn't really caused by that
<drc> Like I didn't
<charlie-tca> oh, I just gksu thunar and do everything at one time
<charlie-tca> any editor opened with thunar as root is automatically granted root
<ochosi> well be sure not to remove the panel-changes
<charlie-tca> Nah, I will leave it this way for a day or two. It isn't yellow, though.
<drc> ochosi: Again, well done on the panel.
<charlie-tca> It isn't orange any more, either, though
<ochosi> k, everyone, was fun testing stuff with you, now i really gotta hit the sack
<charlie-tca> Thanks, ochosi 
<ochosi> see you around!
<charlie-tca> good night
<ochosi> g'night
 * drc hates thinking he's found something really neat, only to find out everyone *but* him has already figured it out (and usually discarded it as impracticle)
<charlie-tca> It helps get everyone thinking, though
 * charlie-tca is just hoi
 * charlie-tca is hoping for installable alternate images tomorrow
<drc> It would be a change of pace.
<drc> It would get my mind of this new thechnique I've discover...bubble sorts!
<drc> Does gedit have a diff plugin?
<charlie-tca> I don't know, I switched to geany. It has fewer dependencies on gnome
<charlie-tca> and a lot more options
<astraljava> No diff plugin, and looks like no one's even going to write such, but rather there's a notion of integrating meld with gedit.
<astraljava> Which kinda makes sense, it's a nifty tool.
<charlie-tca> no changes in Xubuntu images today
<ochosi> charlie-tca: i thought about this a bit more now and i think i'll spend more time getting a basic gtk3 theme than doing fancy stuff with greybird in gtk2
<ochosi> since we'll surely have some applications installed by default that use gtk3 i think it's gonna be important
<charlie-tca> okay
<ochosi> i mean we can discuss this more, but this seems to make most sense to me
<ochosi> and i have to find someone who has already worked with gtk3, i'm afraid it's like starting from scratch with something completely new :(
<drc> And I woke up at 05:00 thinking: "ochosi didn't colorize the scrollbar trough, he bleached it."  And couldn't get back to sleep.  Thanks ochosi :)
<ochosi> drc: hehe, yeah, in fact that's what i did
<charlie-tca> ochosi: á»³es, gtk3 is coming. Of course, Xfce won't use it for a while yet. Also, we do want to push any gtk3 backwards to natty.
<ochosi> no, of course not
<ochosi> but since micahg mentioned that ubuntu's stuff like software-center (which we're using atm) will most likely use gtk3 it'll be a mess
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<drc> Bah...Humbug...no images at all :(
<drc> Might as well go back to bed.
<drc> Introducing Newbird (<sing>Gone away is the bluebird, here to stay is the newbird</sing>) http://imagebin.org/156091
<drc> Now ochosi can go on to gtk3, I have my gtk2 theme :)
<charlie-tca> ochosi: might help with transitioning to gtk3 - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2011-May/033299.html
<ochosi> charlie-tca: thanks, will have a look at that as soon as i start with gtk3
<charlie-tca> it is a listing of progress integrating into Oneiric, no gtk3 themes at this time
<ochosi> i talked to the guys in #murrine, there is an unfinished port of the current ubuntu theme in gtk3 already
<ochosi> but it's still wip
<ochosi> i hope they'll give me some support as soon as i start
<charlie-tca> Soupermanito: can you make a meeting at 22:00 UTC on Sundays?
<Soupermanito> 22UTC gotta figure out what time is that brb
<Soupermanito> 19hs :D
<Soupermanito> yes yes i can
<Soupermanito> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?day=5&month=6&year=2011&p1=0&p2=51&p3=-1&p4=-1
<Soupermanito> say charlie-tca should i zsync the xubuntu 11.04 alternate that i have now, or should i download a new image to do the proper testing whenever it is?
<charlie-tca> hm, we have that already here - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<charlie-tca> no, don't sync yet. We do not have good images yet
<charlie-tca> The images are not usable at all yet
<Soupermanito> ok, just asking
<Soupermanito> but using the 11.04 iso to do the zsync is a good idea? or should i download a complete new image?
<charlie-tca> We will have meetings alternating on Monday and Sunday, Monday at 19:00 and Sunday at 22:00, so maybe everyone that wants to can make one or two meetings a month, at least.
<Soupermanito> also i will have to download the x64 images
<charlie-tca> yes, zsync to 11.04 is good. It is still faster than a full download
<Soupermanito> :) sundays are better for me
<Soupermanito> thank you charlie-tca :D
<charlie-tca> yup, but I don't want to give up every Sunday
<Soupermanito> no, i understand
<ubuntu_> i was wondering when the daily-live .isos for xubuntu 11.10 would be out
<Soupermanito> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricReleaseSchedule
<charlie-tca> when they are published. It could be a while yet
<charlie-tca> We may not have daily-live images until alpha2
<micahg> mr_pouit: charlie-tca I think it's gdm pulling in the GNOME stuff (gnome-session-bin I think now pulls in the unity stack(
<charlie-tca> great :-(
<charlie-tca> so, replacing gdm might be the easiest way to make it work?
<charlie-tca> micahg: rdepends shows ubuntu-desktop, which will pull in everything Ubuntu installs
<charlie-tca> never mind. that is wrong
<charlie-tca> micahg: here's a hint:  <cjwatson> charlie-tca: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/xubuntu.oneiric/rdepends/ALL/notification-daemon is probably more useful
<micahg> charlie-tca: yeah, just got there
<charlie-tca> Do we have to keep xfce4-notifyd for alpha1?
<micahg> do you want notifications working?
<Soupermanito> XD
<charlie-tca> I suppose it would be nice, but it would be better just to an image
<micahg> charlie-tca: sorry, my germinate foo isn't that good
<charlie-tca> That's okay, mine is pretty bad.
<micahg> the thing is xfce4-notifyd provides that package
<micahg> and conflicts properly...
<charlie-tca> if it is a choice between alpha1 without notifications and no alpha1, take the alpha1
<charlie-tca> We have a few hours yet, but we need this to happen by about 13:00 UTC Wednesday to give time for testing
<micahg> charlie-tca: cjwatson figured it out and is fixing
 * micahg thinks his unity issues is due to all the apps installed on his xubuntu machine :)
<micahg> charlie-tca: BTW, xubuntu natty on my armel machine is beautiful :)
<charlie-tca> Great! We are very thankful to cjwatson around!
<charlie-tca> I didn't think we had an armel build yet?
<micahg> charlie-tca: I just installed xubuntu-desktop :)
<charlie-tca> Why do we an armel build then?
<micahg> charlie-tca: so people can do a clean install?
<charlie-tca> oh, yeah
<charlie-tca> micahg: thank you very much for trying to fix the issues today! 
<micahg> charlie-tca: heh, don't know if I actually did  anything
<charlie-tca> you did. I have noticed that if we try to fix things, we get help. If we ignore it, we get no help.
<micahg> well, I now know better how to track these things down
<charlie-tca> Good, because I still seem lost
<Soupermanito> XD
<Soupermanito> lol charlie-tca 
<ochosi> charlie-tca: so what do you think about the panel? any feelings yet or shall i come back tomorrow? :)
<charlie-tca> I would still like a touch more difference between the active and selected buttons, but it works very good now that I blued the white on screen
<charlie-tca> I guess I preferr blue over bright yellow
<charlie-tca> I think we go for it
 * Soupermanito seconds because he likes blue bottons
<charlie-tca> I don't know how to turn buttons blue
<Soupermanito> XD
<Soupermanito> me neither
<Soupermanito> i haven't even figured out why the folders on my ~/home doesnt change whit the theme
<ochosi> charlie-tca: so i'll push the panel changes now and we continue to tweak it until final release, ok with you?
<Soupermanito> it might be that thunar doesnt have different icons for xdg folders, even when i thing it should
<ochosi> Soupermanito: thunar respects xdg-user-dirs and at least xubuntu's default icon theme has special icons for them
<Soupermanito> :( well all mine look the same
<charlie-tca> http://imagebin.org/156149
<ochosi> Soupermanito: you can edit/change that in ~/.config/user-dirs.dirs
<charlie-tca> http://imagebin.org/156150
<charlie-tca> ochosi: I would hope you are way better at blue tinting than me!
<ochosi> charlie-tca: hehe, i would hope so too ;)
<ochosi> no, if you need help with the blue i can help
<charlie-tca> but it is working!
<ochosi> yeah, it looks good
<charlie-tca> I had to tone the white down
<ochosi> would be too intense for me
<charlie-tca> gray washes out my text, and yellow is worse than white
<Soupermanito> charlie-tca, http://imagebin.org/156152
<Soupermanito> the Video Imagenes and Download folders should have individual icons acording xdg
<charlie-tca> I can't work with the transparency stuff
<charlie-tca> It looks like you do everything on one workspace. I spread out a lot, got 10 of them now
<Soupermanito> XD
<charlie-tca> But I always open the same things on each workspace, so I know firefox is on space 3
<charlie-tca> email on 4, etc
<Soupermanito> i cant do stuff on other desktops
<Soupermanito> i forget about them
<charlie-tca> I think that is one of the greatest things there is in linux
<Soupermanito> :) i guess
<Soupermanito> it one of the first thing i delete everytime
<Soupermanito> I tend to forget about the "s" on words thoo
<Soupermanito> and to add stuff to words, like an h to too
<charlie-tca> I was doing it in DOS using Desqview way back, then I couldn't make windows do it right for nothing
<ochosi> Soupermanito: so have you tried editing the file i pointed you to?
<Soupermanito> ochosi, i don't know what to do to it
<Soupermanito> i don't know how does xdg works
<Soupermanito> or how to call the icons, it is calling the proper names for the folders
<ochosi> Soupermanito: you can edit it in any editor, it's a simple list, just look at it, it's pretty self explanatory
<Soupermanito> lemme pastebin it
<Soupermanito> i know
<Soupermanito> but what to do whit it?
<ochosi> the left column is the xdg-user-dir list, the right column are the folder names you're using for those dirs
<Soupermanito> http://pastebin.com/jgr2ypEU
<ochosi> if the stuff on the right column doesn't exactly match the stuff in your homedir, then it won't work
<Soupermanito> its all correct as far i can understand
<Soupermanito> but it doesnt work
<ochosi> hm, try "thunar -q" from a terminal and then start thunar again
<Soupermanito> ochosi, http://imagebin.org/156155
<Soupermanito> no luck
<ochosi> strange, worksforme
<Soupermanito> indeed
<Soupermanito> thats what im saying, i can't remember if it was working on a fresh install
<Soupermanito> oh oh so i have a bug?
<Soupermanito> :D can i fill a bug report?
<Soupermanito> i wanna learn to fill a bug report :D
<ochosi> you can file a bug report, but first you should search whether there's already a bugreport concerned with your problem
<Soupermanito> correct
<Soupermanito> where does one search such stuff?
<charlie-tca> What's Soupermanito filing against?
<charlie-tca> I search at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/
<charlie-tca> but google works too and is sometimes easier for people to use
<Soupermanito> xdg icons for folders don't work for me charlie-tca 
<charlie-tca> google for thunar xubuntu
<charlie-tca> google for thunar xubuntu xdg icons 
<charlie-tca> and tell it you want all words included in each article
<charlie-tca> ochosi: what package is that in?
<Soupermanito> charlie-tca, remember that problem opening thunar i told you the other day
<Soupermanito> it happened again
<Soupermanito> http://imagebin.org/156158
<charlie-tca> Soupermanito: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xdg-user-dirs
<charlie-tca> to file the bug, use       ubuntu-bug xdg-user-dirs
<Soupermanito> :) ok
<charlie-tca> That one goes against      ubuntu-bug thunar   
<charlie-tca> and include the screenshot as an attachment
<Soupermanito> ok
<Soupermanito> and i explain how did it happened?
<charlie-tca> yes, please
<drc> Soupermanito: Is that trying to USB drive?
<Soupermanito> no
<Soupermanito> just /home to see how the icons should look like
<charlie-tca> when you file, you will be asked for a summary first. That is the bug report title. Then you will get a big box to enter comments. That's where you explain what you were doing.
<Soupermanito> what should i entitle it? thunar lags and prompts error on first opening?
<charlie-tca> "Thunar lags and prompts error on first opening" is a good title
<Soupermanito> :D
<charlie-tca> Soupermanito: looks to me like that thunar bug is really bug 136940
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 136940 in xfce4-places-plugin (Ubuntu) "should allow opening non-removable partitions (port to Gio)" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/136940
<charlie-tca> which is fixed in Oneiric, needs to be fixed in natty
<micahg> that hasn't had a new upstream release in forever
<charlie-tca> read on. thunar 1.2.2 fixed it
<charlie-tca> rather, xfce4-places-plugin-1.2.0-3  fixed it
<micahg> oh, right, they pulled patches from upstream
<micahg> still, no upstream release in 2 years
<charlie-tca> which we just synced
<charlie-tca> who's upgrading it then? there is a new plugin release for oneiric
<micahg> charlie-tca: porting like that is risky in an SRU
<charlie-tca> or is this the first new release in two years?
<micahg> charlie-tca: no, it was a Debian patch, note the number after the dash increased
<charlie-tca> I know. I don't know that we can do it, but individuals can try it if desired
<charlie-tca> I see. I didn't look close enough
 * charlie-tca didn't know that was what the  dash number was, either.
<Soup|irssi> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/thunar/+bug/790898
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 790898 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Thunar lags and prompts error on first opening" [Undecided,New]
<micahg> I love that, "obviously safe patch", it's 1660+ lines
<Soupermanito> yes sorry
<Soupermanito> irssiing
<charlie-tca> yeah, and it did not crash one system 
<charlie-tca> we didn't care. We can talk about you anyway
<charlie-tca> I think you should look at bug 136940
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 136940 in xfce4-places-plugin (Ubuntu) "should allow opening non-removable partitions (port to Gio)" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/136940
<Soupermanito> anyway all i wanted is to see how the xdg icons should look like and to check the xdg
<Soupermanito> user-dirs.dirs
<charlie-tca> That is a different bug. This one should be that error you get trying to mount a folder
<Soupermanito> yes
<Soupermanito> i know
<Soupermanito> thats why i didn't even mentioned that on the bug report
<Soupermanito> i hope i did it correctly
<charlie-tca> I will go look
<charlie-tca> Soupermanito: yup, looks good to me
<Soupermanito> :D
<Soupermanito> my first bug report
<Soupermanito> wait should i just keep using my old nick there, or change my nick here...
<Soupermanito> i think i will do the second
<charlie-tca> gonna take the puppy outside now
<micahg> charlie-tca: should I reply on the places SRU bug?
<micahg> charlie-tca: it would qualify for a backport though
<charlie-tca> If you want, sure. You know better than I do
<charlie-tca> Of course, the user doesn't care if it sru or backport, as long they can get something usable
<micahg> charlie-tca: done
<charlie-tca> Thanks
 * micahg also could in theory almost approve the backport...
<charlie-tca> GridCube would really appreciate that, if mr_pouit doesn't mind
<GridCube> I don't really follow you people, you speak at one or two levels beyond me
<charlie-tca> Trying to fix that thunar bug for you
<GridCube> oh
<GridCube> :D
<GridCube> that would be really nice to do, not just for me but for any other person who have it :P
 * micahg missed part of this conversation
<charlie-tca> hm, I am going to have to reboot soon, I can't even close a VBox window by killing vbox in task manager
<GridCube> :D i filled my first ever bug report :P
<charlie-tca> micahg: I am pretty sure that https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/thunar/+bug/790898 is a dup of the bug wanting the backport
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 790898 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Thunar lags and prompts error on first opening" [Undecided,New]
<micahg> charlie-tca: no, the backport was for the places plugin, this is tunar
<micahg> *thunar
<charlie-tca> It is only thunar because I told him file it against thunar
<charlie-tca> He gets the same error
<micahg> well, the places plugin will only fix the places plugin, if thunar needs a patch, that's a different story
<charlie-tca> true
<Soup|irssi> oh, interesting, if i dont close the warning prompt, i cant use the desktop
<charlie-tca> That would be logical
<GridCube> i guess so, i was trying to open the folder from the desktop icon
 * drc notes another reason not to use desktop icons
<GridCube> XD
<GridCube> i just choosed that option instead of the pseudo-dock to open the home folder
#xubuntu-devel 2011-06-01
<ochosi> charlie-tca: still around?
<micahg> cool, just looking over the 4.10 release schedule, we can start upgrading P right after UDS
<ochosi> well, that is, if the release schedule holds
<micahg> ochosi: well, they're keeping the scope small this time to make sure it does
 * ochosi is keeping his fingers crossed
<ochosi> micahg: do you have any gtk3 apps to test something for me?
<ochosi> or maybe oneiric in a vbox?
 * micahg checks
<micahg> ochosi: anjuta in oneiric
<ochosi> micahg: i added a basic (hopefully working) gtk3 style to greybird today, would you mind giving it a quick spin?
<ochosi> as always, you can get the theme here: https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird
<micahg> ochosi: is there a PPA package
<ochosi> micahg: not yet, mr_pouit said he'd so some packaging for us later
<micahg> ochosi: k
<micahg> I'm a little busy at the moment though
<ochosi> k, nvm
<ochosi> i can ask people to test it tomorrow, there's still time till october ;)
<ochosi> i just did a first test and was eager to see whether it worked
<micahg> ochosi: well, thank you for your work
<ochosi> np
<ochosi> i'll have to install oneiric in a vbox pretty soon anyway i guess. gtk3-demo is just not good enough...
<charlie-tca> ochosi: back again
<charlie-tca> ochosi: I would grab alpha1 as soon as we get it to work
<charlie-tca> We do not have a working image yet
<ochosi> k
<charlie-tca> After I restart and back up, I will upgrade to Oneiric myself. Then I should have a partly working system to test with
<ochosi> well, i got someone to test greybird-gtk3 for me, for now the menus and the scrollbars are done (and obviously most of the other colors)
<ochosi> still a lot of widgets will look crappy
<charlie-tca> of course. 
<ochosi> and in the end i'm uncertain of whether to stick to the adwaita engine or use unico instead
<ochosi> ubuntu uses unico, gnome3 uses adwaita...
<charlie-tca> use unico then, keep us compatible with ubuntu. 
<charlie-tca> Gnome3 will not be the default, will it?
<ochosi> errm, no that was maybe ambiguous. both gnome3 and ubuntu *can* use either engine. but supposedly gnome3's default theme mainly uses the adwaita engine whereas ubuntu possibly will use unico
<ochosi> i can even use both engines without a problem
<ochosi> but i'd prefer to just stick to one, it's most likely faster
<charlie-tca> As an Ubuntu derivative, we should always strive for the best compatibility with Ubuntu
<ochosi> anyhow, going to bed now
<charlie-tca> Have a good night
<ochosi> ty, you too
<charlie-tca> syncing again, we have a new image now
<charlie-tca> w00t! desktop images built too
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu 64 alternate image installs in VBox
<charlie-tca> images are out and working, at least alternate images work
<charlie-tca> testing desktop now
<charlie-tca> GridCube: time to download or zsync the images
<GridCube> :D
<GridCube> where is the .zsync file?
<GridCube> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/current/ Â¿Â¿
<charlie-tca> micahg: firefox start page has an invalid certificate
<charlie-tca> yes
<charlie-tca> also http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily/current    for alternate image zsync
<charlie-tca> micahg: don't know if we care this early, but I can file a bug if desired
<GridCube> oh i do have the alternate
<charlie-tca> They are working so far
<charlie-tca> I will run one install on each image before I call it a night
<charlie-tca> hm, I can't run the installer from the live desktop in oneiric 64bit desktop image
<charlie-tca> it doesn't exist
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit:  ^ ^ ^ 
<GridCube> ok charlie-tca i move to the folder where the ISO is at and i run zsync http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily/current/oneiric-alternate-i386.iso.zsync
<charlie-tca> yes
<GridCube> my iso is called: xubuntu-11.04-alternate-i386.iso will that work?
<GridCube> or i have to remane te iso?
<charlie-tca> have to rename. It has to match the image you are syncing with
<GridCube> D:is downloading the whole file
<GridCube> ok renamed 
<GridCube> that was silly of me
<GridCube> still no relevant
<GridCube> :(
<GridCube> is downloading the whole thing
<charlie-tca> might be. My sync started at 33%, so it is pretty close to a full download anyway
<GridCube> No relevent local data found - I will be downloading the whole file. If that's not what you want, CTRL-C out. You should specify the local file is the old version of the file to download with -i (you might have to decompress it with gzip -d first). Or perhaps you just have no data that helps download the file
<GridCube> downloading from http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily/current/oneiric-alternate-i386.iso:
<charlie-tca> yup
<charlie-tca> let it download, if you can
<GridCube> oh can't i just torrent it?
<charlie-tca> no, I don't think there are torrents for development releases
<GridCube> ok
<GridCube> :)
<GridCube> everyday you learn something
<charlie-tca> jigdo, zsync, rsync, full download
<charlie-tca> by the way, all images are oversize and do not fit on a CD
<GridCube> ok
<GridCube> i will install it on a vbox anyway
<charlie-tca> That works. I will run all the images on hardware tomorrow
<GridCube> :)
<charlie-tca> The goal is 5 tests each, so if we get two or three, that would be fantastic
<GridCube> i said to you that if you want i could install the x64 images too
<charlie-tca> I do run both
<charlie-tca> you can too
<charlie-tca> don't forget to sign up for the iso tracker...
<GridCube> how to?
<charlie-tca> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/
<charlie-tca> desktop installs are working from the cd menu
<GridCube> im downloading the alternate
<charlie-tca> Got to free some bandwidth to file a bug against the live cd
<charlie-tca> hitting 15kBps, for a high speed DSL connection
<GridCube> XD thats something i usually see sadly
<GridCube> oh man!! :( i forgot to call again to my ISP
<GridCube> how stupid can one be
<GridCube> gahg! i'm mad at myself now
<charlie-tca> depends on the person?
<GridCube> well i forget to do things i should be doing
<charlie-tca> micahg: verified the firefox no start page issue on 32bit alternate image installation
<GridCube> like calling my ISP and telling them my service is shit and they have to 1) charge me less 2) fix my service
<GridCube> charlie-tca, is there a way to rapidly fetch system info?
<charlie-tca> I tell qwest that monthly, but it doesn't do any good
<charlie-tca> what kind, like for your computer?
<GridCube> yes
<GridCube> never mind, when i installed lubuntu it installed something called system information
<GridCube> it can generate a txt file whit all the info
<charlie-tca> open a terminal, sudo lspci > lspci.txt
<GridCube> would that list ram and hard disks specs?
<charlie-tca> creates a text file in ~/  containing all the hardware info
<charlie-tca> should
<GridCube> trying
<charlie-tca> if not, run hwinfo 
<GridCube> :D yes! that one would do it better!  but this other one is far prettier, the gui tool i mean
<GridCube> but i wonder if this counts as too much information
<GridCube> XD
<micahg> charlie-tca: wait, what's the issue?
<charlie-tca> start page fails for the certificate unknown
<charlie-tca> firefox in oneiric
<micahg> I don't understand, there should be no cert on the start page
 * micahg only sees alternate images
<charlie-tca> about:startpage fails to load; if I hit reload, I get a Secure Connection Failed
<charlie-tca> testpilot.mozillalabs.com:443 uses an invalid security certificate
<charlie-tca> Makes no sense to me
<charlie-tca> heh
<charlie-tca> the good news is that the live cd is working for us now
 * micahg tries in a clean profile
<micahg> fun, I get a 404
<charlie-tca> Only missing the install icon in VBox, it is there in hardware
<micahg> confirmed, this should probably be fixed
<micahg> charlie-tca: can you file the bug and I'll milestone it?
<charlie-tca> Sure
<micahg> charlie-tca: thanks
<micahg> this probably affects Ubuntu as well
<micahg> charlie-tca: it's 790469
<charlie-tca> no point in me filing it then?
<GridCube> i do not appear as suscribed to the testing
<charlie-tca> GridCube: explain?
<micahg> charlie-tca: nope
<micahg> charlie-tca: you can add it to the ISO tracker though if you like :)
<GridCube> on http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/test/5779 i clic [subscribe] then i go to <My Subscriptions> and there is nothing there
<micahg> if that's appropriate that is
<charlie-tca> adding
<charlie-tca> GridCube: no problem, it takes a few minutes/hours for that to happen
<charlie-tca> it will get there, given time. The servers are kind of weird
<GridCube> oh wait, i should check some boxes before subscribing?
<GridCube> XD i think i should 
<charlie-tca> yes, you have to do that, too
<GridCube> lol
<GridCube> XD
<GridCube> sorry for being such a pain
<charlie-tca> Thanks, micahg 
<charlie-tca> n
<charlie-tca> no problem
<charlie-tca> We all start somewhere
<GridCube> :D there now it appears
<charlie-tca> I have to file the missing installer bug from VBox, since it is not missing on hardware.
<GridCube> :D
<GridCube> installing alternate :D
<charlie-tca> GridCube: when you look at the iso tracker, the square to the left of a test is a testcase that can be used
<charlie-tca> For alpha1, our main concern is that it does actually install
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit, micahg : images are installing for both 32bit and 64bit, alternate and desktop
<charlie-tca> also upgrades worked
 * charlie-tca knows they are greatly oversized, which should work out before alpha2
<Unit193> I know a person that already switched (Upgraded) to 11.10
<charlie-tca> Yes, there are always some will do that early. The problem is when it breaks and they do not know to wait for the fixes
<charlie-tca> breakage is always going to come, early in the cycle
<Unit193> The person wanted Gnome3 (Isn't using Xubuntu)
<charlie-tca> yeah, that isn't working well either yet
<Unit193> Ubuntu is working on upgrading to GTK3?
<charlie-tca> no
<charlie-tca> ubuntu is highly broken, but it doesn't matter, since people will insist on upgrading anyway
<Unit193> Sorry, I was thinking for Oneiric release, not Alpha
<charlie-tca> oh, yes. 
<charlie-tca> Ubuntu will be using GTK3, as much as possible for Oneiric
<Unit193> I take it you will wait 'til next round?
<charlie-tca> for gtk3, yes, but for Oneiric, I will be upgrading a machine this weekend
<Unit193> Thank you for the info!
 * charlie-tca enjoys fighting with broken stuff, so will upgrade his main machine first
<Unit193> Heh!
<charlie-tca> It is especially good when it goes down for 4-5 days
<drc> charlie-tca: Any use DL'ing images today?
<charlie-tca> yes
<drc> orly?
<charlie-tca> all images for xubuntu are oversized, but working
<charlie-tca> alternate and desktop, 32 and 64bit
<drc> fun and games :)
<charlie-tca> I been at it most of the night, I think
<charlie-tca> well, actually, only about 5 hours now
<drc> ewwww
<drc> Sleep is vastly overrated
<charlie-tca> heh, I test ubuntu, xubuntu, kubuntu for the milestone
<charlie-tca> got alpha1 due out tomorrow
<drc> Ok, DL'ing all images...because it's the first time, I'll test all 4 today.
<charlie-tca> great!
 * drc wonders what else he has to do..oh yeah, mow the yard, weed, fun things such as that :(
<charlie-tca> me too. What a deal, huh?
<charlie-tca> I just have to run about 16 more tests, too
<drc> damn rain and sun makes all the silly green things grow
<drc> You testing all the *buntus?
<charlie-tca> no, just the three
<charlie-tca> I can't really get mythbuntu to work, since I have no tv card, and Studio and edubuntu are dvd's
<drc> charlie-tca: want to to grab studio and edu (my connection is faster)? and test them?
<charlie-tca> If yoiu 
<charlie-tca> if you can. You can see here that there are only a couple of tests to do on them, but they are usually last because the dvd is so big to download - http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/
<drc> OK, I'll start with them.
<drc> Is edubuntu based on xubuntu (I know studio is moving)?
<charlie-tca> no
<charlie-tca> based on Ubuntu
<GridCube> :D
<GridCube> came back
<charlie-tca> Work studio first, someone on the edubuntu team has a really fast setup and can test theirs in about 20 minutes per install
 * GridCube wants to anounce that he was previously known as Soupermanito
<GridCube> :D i came back from the bank and oeniric had ended installing, now using the desktop
<drc> ok
<GridCube> i saw an error while first booting it said something like "udev non writable" or something like taht
 * GridCube shighs, he should have taken a screenshot
<charlie-tca> yup, that is know
<charlie-tca> yup, that is known already. it is a udev/.udev thing
<drc> GridCube: It falls back to .udev.  Confused me too at first :)
<charlie-tca> sign it off, it worked
<GridCube> \o/ yay! got the same error than whit 11.04
<GridCube> opening thunar error!
<charlie-tca> you added networks to it?
<GridCube> no
<GridCube> just plain install
<charlie-tca> add that bug to the iso tracker then
<GridCube> its the very first time i ever open thunar
<charlie-tca> I don't get that bug, myself
<GridCube> i just double clic on the desktop icon :/
<drc> Well, the DL speed is ok (1.3MB/sec) but the studio files size is so much larger:(
<charlie-tca> heh, yeah, I know
<GridCube> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/thunar/+bug/775117
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 775117 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Thunar hangs on first launch of each session" [Low,Triaged]
<GridCube> this is the bug
<GridCube> how do i add it to the bug report automatically?
<drc> If edu is not based on X, why do you/we test them also (no offense intended, just wondering)
<charlie-tca> you just add it to the bug numbers on the tracker, and it will automatically tag the report itself
<charlie-tca> edubuntu is based on Ubuntu, and needs to be tested, so we test it
<drc> Works for me :)
<charlie-tca> We don't do it daily, but for the milestone testing
<drc> Are we doing studio milestones or daily?
<charlie-tca> milestones
<charlie-tca> That is for alpha1
<charlie-tca> We just want to know it installs today
<charlie-tca> Did I confuse you yet?
<drc> nope, followed every word with rapt attention.
<charlie-tca> Edubuntu will be rebuilt. no point in testing it yet
<drc> ok, studio then X
<charlie-tca> yup
<GridCube> i clicked the update arrow and instead of the standard updating window it launched synaptic
<drc> You want both Studios (32 and 64)
<charlie-tca> yup
<charlie-tca> GridCube: really?
<GridCube> yes
<charlie-tca> it is early, but it should not do that. 11.04 did that too in testing
<charlie-tca> I think that is something will be fixed later
<GridCube> so its not important?
<GridCube> or should i report it?
<drc> I'm gointo to go fix a pot of tea, it'
<charlie-tca> not important yet
<charlie-tca> alpha2, yes
<GridCube> ok
<drc> ll take another 20 min to DL studio64
<GridCube> i got the firefox error you where talking yesterday
<charlie-tca> expected
<GridCube> ff5 doesnt find flash on youtube
<charlie-tca> GridCube: most of those are expected this early
<micahg> that sounds weird though, let me see if anyone else reported that
<GridCube> im installing it tru the software center
<GridCube> i guess its a firefox thing
<charlie-tca> micahg is checking. He is "the firefox person"
<micahg> no, that's chrisccoulson :), I do handle the security updates though and have some familiarity with it :)
<charlie-tca> micahg is checking. He is "OUR firefox person"
<micahg> heh
<charlie-tca> :-)
<GridCube> :D
<charlie-tca> hm, three installs and syncing images might be too much for internet :-(
<micahg> GridCube: which flash player do you have installed?
<drc> hmmm...I can see having a separate machine for testing would be a good thing.
<micahg> drc: VMs work fine for most things, occassionally you'll find diferent bugs in them
<drc> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/test/5790 says the manual partition test has been done (once only). I'm going to go to the 32 bit, that hasn't been done yet
<drc> micahg: Have never worked with VM's (scared really, but don't tell anyone)
<charlie-tca> okay
<micahg> drc: testdrive makes it easy :)
 * drc wonders where the studio-types that were here yesterday are?
<drc> micahg: testdrive?
<GridCube> oh i like the sound thingy, i dont have that on 10.04 :D
<micahg> drc: yeah, it's an app that can sync ISOs and run them in a VM for you without you having to do the setup
<drc> Got a URL?
<micahg> drc: it's in software center :)
<charlie-tca> working, drc
<drc> Something useful in SC? Really?
<GridCube> :( why if i double clic an mp3 it say you dont have the complements to play this media, and that i need to install those complements, and i don't have "install complements" [button]?
<drc> charlie-tca: Work?  Oh yeah, that.
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu doesn't use that kind of h
<charlie-tca> thing to make your life as a user easier
<GridCube> hahaha
<GridCube> XD
<GridCube> it used to back in the day
<GridCube> D: the software center has freezed
<charlie-tca> that's because software center is broken
<GridCube> oh
<GridCube> not reporting that then=
<GridCube> ?
<charlie-tca> right
<charlie-tca> mostly want to know you got it to install, reboot, and login, reboot, login
<drc> micahg: You really recommend testdrive ?
<charlie-tca> almost everything else can be broken at this time
<micahg> drc: for someone who is afraid of VMs, yes, for someone who likes more control, I would suggest taking the time to set stuff up :)
<micahg> drc: the new version in natty really does a nice job of syncing the ISOs and setting up the VMs
<charlie-tca> Yes, test drive is good for beginning VM users.
<GridCube> oh
<charlie-tca> For me, I got too many VBox machines to use it. 
<GridCube> i killed the virtual machine D:
<drc> The "scared" part was really a euphanism for "lazy"
<micahg> charlie-tca: you might want to look into kvm/libvirt
<charlie-tca> I can't make kvm work. I have tried, but it really confuses things for me
<charlie-tca> back in a little bit, gotta take a break
<micahg> charlie-tca: there's an app cpu-checker that will tell you if you can run kvm/libvirt well on your machine
<micahg> charlie-tca: the security team has tools to make managing the VMs easier
<charlie-tca> I can't seem to make it work in my head
<drc> http://pastebin.com/EWbss6tQ Good enough to run testing in testdrive? (the 2 gig RAM will probably be 3 or 4 gig in July, depending on how much the youngest daughter loves me:)
<charlie-tca> but I got about 60 VBox machines set up
<charlie-tca> sure, you only need to give the vm about 512 MB ram
<micahg> drc: yeah, default is 384 or 512 MB RAM w/5GB disk space I think
<drc> Ok, after today's testing, I'll look into it.
<GridCube> http://imagebin.org/156307 this is because i haven't installed the video drivers correct?
<GridCube> mmm
<GridCube> i don't know if whats happening is just me being ignorant or an error
<GridCube> if i go to "hibernate" ont the exit menu, it shows a screensaver for like 30 seconds and then it closes the vm
<drc> 1) I don't know anything about VM's or 2) use hibernate, but iitc, hibernate writes RAM to disk and then shuts down.  Wouldn't that naturally kill a VM session ?
<GridCube> thats what im kinda asking
<charlie-tca> Why would you hibernate a VM?
<charlie-tca> you still have to hibernate the main system
<drc> charlie-tca: Because it's part of the Long Test and he's using a VM to test?
<charlie-tca> hibernate and suspend will usually fail in a VBox session, because it doesn't have the ability to use the hardware for it
<charlie-tca> then he has to skip that. Most of that test will fail because it is too early in the cycle.
<charlie-tca> hibernate will almost always fail in a VM
<GridCube> ok
<GridCube> :)
<GridCube> learning
<charlie-tca> GridCube: again, for alpha1, installed, restarted, logout/restart, logged in, shutdown
<charlie-tca> passed
<GridCube> :D
<GridCube> several times
<charlie-tca> the rest does not count for this alpha1, because it just doesn't work yet
<GridCube> :D
<GridCube> ok
<GridCube> so thats it?
 * drc hopes that charlie-tca will remember that GridCube and he are newbies at *buntu testing :)
<GridCube> that was an easy testing test
 * GridCube hughs charlie-tca in a manly way
<charlie-tca> Please update the iso tracker with your tests
<GridCube> yes
<GridCube> the two bugs counted, the thunar bug and the firefox thing
<GridCube> and i check pased?
<charlie-tca> yup, remembered. That's why I keep repeating the pertitent tests for alpha1
<charlie-tca> for alpha1, installed, restarted, logout/restart, logged in, shutdown
<GridCube> did that
<GridCube> lots of times :D
<charlie-tca> drc: for UbuntuStudio, the square icon to the left of the test gives the test case to use
<GridCube> do i add a comment?
<GridCube> like the flash on firefox thing?
<charlie-tca> micahg: is the no flash valid?
<GridCube> i asked to add it on a comment because its not that flash didnt worked, it did,but from the installer from softwarecenter
<charlie-tca> yes, that is a bug
<GridCube> ok, does it have a number? or i just comment about it?
<charlie-tca> won't have a number unless you file it, ubuntu-bug software-center
<GridCube> another thing, because im hardcore like that and i like to brake stuff, you see i choosed to start an xfce session, and then a xubuntu session, and then the color of bars and stuff changed
<charlie-tca> expected too
<micahg> charlie-tca: sorry, was afk, checking
<charlie-tca> no problem
 * micahg never got an answer on which flash player
<micahg> GridCube: ^^
<charlie-tca> GridCube: which flash player? micahg needs to know
<drcxubuntu-devel> Well, Studio32 installs *as long as you dont try to use the Software Selection to add anything
<GridCube> oh yes
<charlie-tca> That's okay
<GridCube> ah the adobe one?
<charlie-tca> mark the tracker for it
<drcxubuntu-devel> It tried to use GNOME3 (but no drivers)
<GridCube> i kinda reinstalled everything on the virtual machine to test dualboot
<drcxubuntu-devel> charlie-tca: Got a URL for me, I'm still in Studio
<charlie-tca> yup, that will change as soon as we give them a go ahead
<charlie-tca> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/test/5791
<drcxubuntu-devel> thanks
<charlie-tca> Thank you
<drcxubuntu-devel> charlie-tca: Do I need to create a new QAaccount or will the launchpad one work?
<charlie-tca> new, I think
<charlie-tca> I created mine about three years ago, before it was tied to launchpad. 
<drc> bah
<drc> I'll post the Studio32Manual results as soon as my new password comes in the mail:(
<drc> charlie-tca: Which (manual partition) test you want me to do now?
<drc> Or live session...doesn't matter
<GridCube> :) doing an auto rezise testing installation, dual boot 11.10t 11.10t XD
<GridCube> well if consistency counts as anything i once more got the same thunar error
<GridCube> XD
<drc> He's busy...I'll do http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/result/5787/132
<GridCube> :D and once more clicking the update arrow brings synaptic up
<drc> OK, something screwy with my QA login/password (but I'll worry about that later).  Can someone go in to http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/result/5791/224 and report that it installs, reboots, logsin, reboots, logsin (as long as Selected Software is not used, for me (so someone else doesn't waste time testing this once only test)
<ochosi> charlie-tca: do you have a working instance of xubuntu oneiric in virtualbox already?
<ochosi> or anyone else in here?
<GridCube> drc
<GridCube> hes gone
<GridCube> sup ochosi 
<ochosi> :|
<GridCube> i am installing alternate on vbox
<GridCube> tried it twice already :D
<ochosi> but it never worked?
<GridCube> O_o
<GridCube> it worked alright
<ochosi> oh, ok :)
<ochosi> well, would you mind testing greybird-gtk3 for me?
<GridCube> :)
<ochosi> and maybe take a few screenshots :)
<GridCube> nothing for greybird on synaptic
<ochosi> there's no ppa yet
<ochosi> you can dl it here: https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/archives/master
<GridCube> i don't know how to git
<GridCube> :(
<ochosi> it's just a tarball
<ochosi> you don't need to use git
<ochosi> then unpack it, "sudo mv" it to /usr/share/themes and then change the theme in the appearance dialog to greybird
<ochosi> and then you need to start some gtk3 application
<GridCube> :O cliking on the pseudo-dock to launch firefox does nothing
<GridCube> ah no, its just im really slow
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> anyhow, it's only if you have time
<ochosi> if not, no worries
<ochosi> maybe i'll get around to it next week
<GridCube> _D
<GridCube> :D
<GridCube> D: oh look at that my keyboard is not correctly setted
<GridCube> i used the auto detection thing, where you have to press some asked keys, and it said the correct layout while installing, but now its not correct
<GridCube> in previous installation i choosed manually the layout, and it worked alright
<charlie-tca> ochosi: no, I overwrote mine with Kubuntu
<GridCube> ochosi, what gtk3 app?
<GridCube> charlie-tca, found this error https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/627540
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 627540 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Auto detect keyboard during install fails for Spanish keyboards" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<charlie-tca> Mark that on the tracker. 
<charlie-tca> It will give it some attention that is needed.
<ochosi> GridCube: e.g. gedit
<GridCube> ggg having wrong keymaps sucks setxkbmap every time too
<GridCube> ochosi > http://paste.ubuntu.com/616026
<micahg> GridCube: heh, ok, so flash should work in theory, but with 512MB RAM, flash isn't going to perform that well
<GridCube> :/ thats rather dissapointing
<GridCube> i know the world has evolved, but 512ram is still a lot
<micahg> you can try gnash and see if it's any better
<GridCube> anyway it worked pretty well
<GridCube> i do gave 512mb swap
<micahg> GridCube: which worked well?
<GridCube> the only one i've installed
<GridCube> XD flashplugin
<micahg> ah, ok
<GridCube> the problem was that firefox didn't find it for me and i had to go to the app center to get it
<micahg> GridCube: oh, the plugin finder didn't work?
<micahg> that makes sense
<GridCube> yep
<micahg> the DB probably isn't published yet
<GridCube> :)
<GridCube> ok 
<GridCube> just something silly then :D
<GridCube> this is my very first testing day ever :D
<micahg> charlie-tca: do I need to test anything for this release?  ( I haven't heard of any arm images)
<charlie-tca> There won't be any arm images
<drc> hmmmm...Additional Drivers for nvidia: verbage has changed, makes it a bit more confusing to pick the correct driver.
<drc> reboot
<charlie-tca> going cut grass while it is not raining; will test more when I get the grass cut
<charlie-tca> Feel free to ask questions in #ubuntu-testing
<drc> charlie-tca: before you go, which test do you want next?
<charlie-tca> Whichever ones you can do.
<drc> ok...didn;t know there was a -testing :)
<drc> have fun...come over and cut mine while you're out.
<charlie-tca> full list of tests needing to be done: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/testcases
 * GridCube ð  Siiimply haaaving a wonderful christmas time!
<drc> Feliz Navidad
<GridCube> XD
<GridCube> that song is fun
<GridCube> :D
<drc> Fun? Not if you've heard it a thousand times every Christmas.
<drc> new test.
<GridCube> :P its not so usual down here
<drc> OK, looks like daily testing is done, time to play with testdrive.
<charlie-tca> Thanks for helping
<GridCube> :D
<charlie-tca> A big thanks to both drc and GridCube for helping with testing today! 
<drc> np...now it's time to learn how to do it better and quciker
<GridCube> thanks to you charlie-tca for your pacience :D
<drc> charlie-tca: Get any sleep after mowing the grass?
<GridCube> when is next test day?
<charlie-tca> I learned that a long time ago, but it seems like the faster I go, the more tests I get to do now
<drc> GridCube: tomorrow :)
<GridCube> :P
<GridCube> not for milestones
<charlie-tca> Looks like about July 5 or July 3
<GridCube> :D
<GridCube> ok
<GridCube> if you need me to test something in the middle just ask
<charlie-tca> You both updated the tracker, right?
<GridCube> i updated all the tasks is did
<drc> GridCube: Thanks for adding the test for Studio...I figured out my QA accounts problem, now all is good
<charlie-tca> I will do that
<GridCube> >autoresize, >whole disk 
<GridCube> :) no problem drc
<charlie-tca> drc: on daily testing, you only test Xubuntu unless you really want to test others
#xubuntu-devel 2011-06-02
<drc> Using testdrive, there are 3 options: KVM/VirtualBox/Parelles...What are the differences, and do I have to have any other software not included as part of testdrive?
<charlie-tca> I can't really answer that
<charlie-tca> !VM
<ubottu> There are several solutions for running other operating systems (or their programs) inside Ubuntu, while using the native CPU as much as possible: !QEmu (with !KQemu), !VirtualBox, !VMWare, as well as !WINE and !Cedega for Windows applications
<charlie-tca> !kvm
<ubottu> kvm is the preferred virtualization approach in Ubuntu. For more information see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/KVM
<charlie-tca> !parrelles
<charlie-tca> !VirtualBox
<ubottu> virtualbox is a x86 !virtualizer. A !free edition is available from the package 'virtualbox-ose'. A non-free edition is available at http://virtualbox.org for most Ubuntu releases (help in #vbox) - Setup details at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/VirtualBox
<charlie-tca> !parallells
<charlie-tca> !paralells
<charlie-tca> well, I don't know how to get that to come up
<drc> OK, let's say I choose VirtualBox, do I need to install anything else (besides testdrive)?
<charlie-tca> I don't know if test drive installs VirtualBox for you
<charlie-tca> I don't use it
<charlie-tca> micahg: ^ ^ ^ test drive?
<charlie-tca> When you reinstall every 6 months or more often, test drive doesn't scale so well
<DarkEra> charlie-tca, you meant parallels
<DarkEra> ?
<charlie-tca> !parallels
<charlie-tca> don work either
<DarkEra> hmmm
<charlie-tca> Do you know what it is?
<DarkEra> i don't actually
<charlie-tca> drc: we don't suggest parallels. Pick something else
<charlie-tca> I prefer Vio
<charlie-tca> I prefer VirtualBox, but others seem to think KVM is the best solution out there
<charlie-tca> drc: try testdrive and see if it installs VBox for you?
<charlie-tca> The worst that will happen is an error
<drc> ChanServ: I did, it appears it didn't, and I just finished installing VirtualBox...not to see what happens
<charlie-tca> That is the easiest VM for me to use. KVM, VMWare, Qemu, all were a lot more work to set up and use
<drc> It appears that one must install the KVM/VB/Whatever seperately.
<charlie-tca> I see
<drc> Doesn't like my 64bit hardware....
<drc> oh well
<charlie-tca> huh?
<charlie-tca> It works on mine. 
<GridCube> !parelles
<GridCube> XD
<charlie-tca> !info paralles
<ubottu> Package paralles does not exist in natty
<charlie-tca> !info parallels
<ubottu> Package parallels does not exist in natty
<charlie-tca> lol
<GridCube> !info parelles
<ubottu> Package parelles does not exist in natty
<charlie-tca> !info parallel
<ubottu> Package parallel does not exist in natty
<GridCube> nope
<GridCube> !info parellel
<ubottu> Package parellel does not exist in natty
<GridCube> :P
<charlie-tca> !info python-parallel
<ubottu> python-parallel (source: pyparallel): pyparallel - module encapsulating access for the parallel port. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.2-6 (natty), package size 13 kB, installed size 108 kB
<GridCube> D:
<GridCube> you googled it
<micahg> drc: tesrdrive should pull in virtualbox-ose
<charlie-tca> nope, I apt-cache policy parall*   'd it
<micahg> parallels is a mac program
<charlie-tca> timely! It is driving us nuts
<GridCube> XD
<drc> micahg: It appears that what I installed did not pull in VB-OSE, I had to install it separately
<micahg> oh, ok, I guess that changed recently :)
 * drc used to really love this stuff...all the problems and trying this and that...nowadays he just wants his pipe and slippers.
 * charlie-tca wants the slippers, but still breaks his machine every six months
<charlie-tca> I do dual boot though, and this natty install will stay here for six months
<charlie-tca> the only time that failed was when grub broke for several days ;-)
<drc> bah....
<charlie-tca> humbug...
<drc> There was a reason I went with Ubuntu 3 years ago...not to have to do this anymore :)
 * micahg has a dev laptop which gets uploaded once the major infrastructure changes hit, and a play laptop which is running xubuntu oneiric already :)
<drc> Ans I can't get VB to let me use the 64bit iso's :(
<micahg> drc: you need a VM capable chip, install cpu-checker on the host and run kvm-ok to see if you qualify 
<drc> This just keeps getting better and better :)
 * micahg only has one machine that can handle 64 bit VMs
 * drc starts looking for his CP/M disks...they're in the colset somewhere
<drc> 'Bout damn time...had to go into the bios...haven't been there in years :)
<drc> and it's still not working
<drc> maybe
<drc> Interesting...testdrive won't work, but the VM (?) created in VB by testdrive will
<drc> Go Figure
<drc> (TM)
<micahg> wow, we're really oversized :)
<drc> Speak for yourself, I'm on a diet.
 * micahg was referring to the 784 and 796MB iSOs
<drc> Must be the LiveCD stuff....the Alt are much smaller.
<micahg> yeah, the liveCD
 * micahg will have to go on a slash and burn hunt if s/gdm/lightdm/ in the seed doesn't fix it
<drc> BTW, I *think* I have VB working with 32 and 64 bit images now.
<charlie-tca> micahg: yes, we are much bigger than Ubuntu, but I think it is because of the gnome and Unity stuff we are pulling in 
 * Unit193 wants to checkout LightDM
<micahg> charlie-tca: yeah, that's why I figured on waiting until the s/gdm/lightdm in the seed
<micahg> we
<micahg> we're also affected by the openssl transition, but that's only eating 1MB
<charlie-tca> We are always oversize by a bunch more than Ubuntu to start
<charlie-tca> by alpha2 or 3 we should be right
<micahg> oh, does xubuntu not strive to fit on the CD?
<micahg> ah, ok
<charlie-tca> We can't with Ubuntu doing things to us
<charlie-tca> We are not oversize by anything Xubuntu did
<micahg> heh, well, we'll still have less stacks than Ubuntu this time around I think
<micahg> err, well, maybe not less, but for Xubuntu, it's s/QT/GTK2
<charlie-tca> Why do we have to have QT too?
<charlie-tca> shouldn't ours be GTK2/GTK3 ?
<micahg> charlie-tca: we don't, I was saying we'll have GTK2 instead of QT
<micahg> as our second stack
<charlie-tca> oh, sorry
<micahg> they have GTK3+QT
<charlie-tca> I suspect if we cut out QT, we will be in good shape
<charlie-tca> they have to keep GTK2, too, don't they?
<charlie-tca> They will be doing away with GTK2 completely for lts
<micahg> charlie-tca: they're trying not to, there was a discussion about that today, we don't have QT ATM
<charlie-tca> crap
<charlie-tca> I am never gonna learn this kUbuntu thing
<micahg> we do have a lot of GNOME3 stuff we don't need though
<charlie-tca> oh, yeah, I guess that would be true
<micahg> well, GTK2 can drop to universe for LTS, but it has to stay in the archive or there will be no xubuntu :)
<charlie-tca> Won't we be going to GTK3 for 4.10?
<micahg> no
<charlie-tca> huh?
<charlie-tca> no? We stay at gtk2 for three years?
<micahg> the focus is polish, http://wiki.xfce.org/releng/4.10/roadmap
<micahg> for the 13.04 release, we'll probably have a GTK3 version of xubuntu
<micahg> but even then, it might not be complete until the following release
<charlie-tca> Oh, goody. That makes gtk2 stay around until 2015
<micahg> well, at least that long :)
<micahg> in 4 years I think it'll be gone at least from our dev archive :)
<charlie-tca> That will make everybody love us more :-)
<micahg> old reliable technology!
 * drc might not live long enough to see gtk2 gone from xubuntu :(
 * charlie-tca thinks drc is still young!
<charlie-tca> but at least he makes me feel young sometimes 
 * drc knows he acts like a two year old sometimes, but doesn't care
 * charlie-tca got 11 year old grandkids
<charlie-tca> or maybe 12 now
 * drc has one in college
 * charlie-tca thinks drc is old!
 * micahg is apparently the youngin here...
<drc> Turns 60 next month :(
<charlie-tca> wooo
<charlie-tca> makes me a young guy afterall... just 58 in October
<charlie-tca> micahg is really young
 * micahg thinks we should have a party for charlie-tca in Orlando
<charlie-tca> no
 * charlie-tca might not go
<micahg> charlie-tca: not really young, I think mr_pouit has me beat
<micahg> charlie-tca: ok, no party, please come :)
<charlie-tca> okay, I can try
<charlie-tca> yes, mr_pouit does look young
<charlie-tca> and then there is cody-somerville too, for looking really young
<micahg> oh yeah, I met him finally in Budapest
<charlie-tca> You did?
<micahg> yeah
<charlie-tca> I missed him again. We got to say hi in Orlando, barely
<pleia2> he does tend to move pretty quickly :)
<micahg> we talked outside for a bit
<charlie-tca> I did get to meet janni, though
<micahg> janimo?
<charlie-tca> yup
<micahg> yeah, I met him at the last rally
<charlie-tca> for the new guys, he founded Xubuntu
 * charlie-tca is still plugging away at tests
<drc> charlie-tca: What tests? Can I help?
<charlie-tca> You get VBox working?
<drc> yup :)
<charlie-tca> I got to get two done on Xubuntu 64 alternate yet
<charlie-tca> lvm encrypted and auto-resize
<charlie-tca> and then I agreed to help Kubuntu out, and got 8 to run there yet
<drc> I'm (re)grabbing the X64ALT's now, I'll do the 64ALT-resize when its done
<charlie-tca> Okay, it's a deal
<drc> After that I'll help with the Kubuntu
<charlie-tca> I will run the encrypted install
 * drc is not sure what a LVM is
<charlie-tca> it's a complicated way to say use all the drives as one drive
<drc> 20 min until the DL is done, then I'll start.
<charlie-tca> and you can add/delete space from it easier than normal partitions
<drc> oh, I just thought is was an improved KVM :)
<charlie-tca> I don't use it, myself
<pleia2> it also allows you to resize non-contiguous partitions and has lots of other features like snapshots
<drc> nice
 * pleia2 uses it everywhere
<charlie-tca> yeah, it has all the confusing things to go with it
<charlie-tca> heh
<drc> But pleia2 is a geekette
<pleia2> well, being a sysadmin is my job :)
<charlie-tca> Maybe if I was younger
<charlie-tca> I hate playing with all the options now
 * drc womders how sysadmins (noun) nowadays have time to actually sysadmin (verb) with all the new stuff they have to learn on a continual basis.  Back in the day it was easy, change came much slower and in smaller doses.
<pleia2> I'm sure it depends on the place, but for us we rotate research and sysadmin (verb) duty
<pleia2> right now I'm in research mode for a failover cluster with heartbeat, kvm and drbd
<pleia2> it's not as fast as it could be though, one reason we don't use ubuntu is the pace on server stuff is too fast (virtualization-wise they went from kvm, to eucalyptus to openstack in less than 3 years, impossible in real production)
 * pleia2 hopes they will settle down eventually :)
<drc> <sing>workin' on a chain gang, goin' down down down...</sing>
<pleia2> err s/heartbeat/pacemaker - heartbeat is what we used to use, see? my poor brain
<charlie-tca> micahg: we are causing problems with kde too now? https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/728388
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 728388 in xfce4-notifyd (Ubuntu) "libknotifyconfig4 or something around kde4 in conflict with xfce4-notifyd" [Undecided,New]
<charlie-tca> lol
<drc> Starting ALT64-resize.
<charlie-tca> It's really xfce4-notifyd conflicts with notification-daemon ... 
<charlie-tca> I won't say I got three running
<charlie-tca> Kubuntu 386 resize, Kubuntu 64 oem, Xubuntu 64 encrypted
<charlie-tca> It's confusing
<charlie-tca> I might have encrypted the wrong one now
<charlie-tca> Thanks for getting the resize, drc
<charlie-tca> I got three machines I use, plus the VirtualBox machines
 * charlie-tca is very thankful to Xfce for getting sticky keys to work. 
<GridCube> lol launchpad is crazy
<GridCube> its just my impression or does xubuntu testing didn't bring any red color bugs?
<GridCube> :D
<charlie-tca> We left the red off, it looks prettier that way
<GridCube> hehehe XD
<GridCube> we are the cool people, like look at them! they all red and we here whit cool green
<charlie-tca> Don't laugh too hard, sometimes it is us that is all red, and they pass everything
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu tests are done, as soon as drc signs off
<drc> It may be a while:(
<drc> I'm confused
 * charlie-tca thinks that is wrongly worded. Should be as soon as drc completes his
<charlie-tca> why?
<drc> http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Install/AlternateResize going from step 8 to 9
<drc> I swear that's not what shows up on my screen
<charlie-tca> selected timezone
<drc> really step 9
<charlie-tca> then you got a list of things you can do with the drive
<charlie-tca> guided resizing existing partition on sd?
<charlie-tca> If you don't have an existing partition, it will be wrong
<drc> OK, lets get this done...It might be best if you do the resize test, while I firgure out what I'm doing wrong
<charlie-tca> If that is a new VBox drive, you do a guided whole drive first, then you do a second install using the guided resize
<charlie-tca> Okay, I will give you the right line when I get there
<drc> Sorry about this
<charlie-tca> no problem
<charlie-tca> it took me a while to learn all this stuff
<drc> Any chance you can do a print screen when you get to the appropriate screen?
<charlie-tca> yup
<charlie-tca> although the current drive is encrypted, so we will see what it does
<drc> BTW, I was doing it on a hardware partition (that's why I left), I couldn't figure out how in VB.
<charlie-tca> So, you want to see it in hardware?
<drc> It shouldn't matter should it? 
<drc> The screen showing step 9 should be the same
<charlie-tca> nope, other than my two drive setup is really confusing to figure out
<drc> I just want to see what it should look like, then I'll drop out and try it again
<charlie-tca> Okay
<charlie-tca> give me a minute and I will screenshot it
<drc> ok
 * drc hates it when his enthusiasm exceeds his knowledge
<charlie-tca> I will have to run two installs to get there
<charlie-tca> I only got a choice of encrypted, whole disk, or manual
<charlie-tca> Let me boot the hardware machine and see if I can get something there
<charlie-tca> nm
<drc> I'll be here
<charlie-tca> can't screenshot it
<charlie-tca> Looking at another machine
<drc> Don't go to any great bother, I'm going to drop out and try something.  back in a bit
<charlie-tca> drc: http://imagebin.org/156413
<drc> OK, testing resizing is right out until I can figure out where I am going wrong.
<charlie-tca> If there is not enough room or the disk is empty, you will not have the top line
<drc> That's it
<drc> I see "reuse" not resize
<drc> I need to figure out how to do this in VB
<charlie-tca> I did not get the first line because my drive was encrypted, so I am doing a Guided-use entire disk 
<charlie-tca> first, then will do the resize
<drc> but that's a job for tomorrow, I'm tired.
<charlie-tca> reuse is to write over the existing partition. 
<drc> BTW, have you got any sleep charlie-tca ?
<charlie-tca> Is that the alternate cd?
<drc> yes
<charlie-tca> It sounds like the desktop image
<charlie-tca> I slept last night, I woke up about 17 hours ago
<charlie-tca> I will get this test done, then call it a night
<drc> ok...anything I can help with kubuntu?
<charlie-tca> couple of manual installs if you are up to it. Otherwise, we let it go
<drc> Just as long as it's as straing forward as the Xubuntu manual :)
<charlie-tca> it's kubuntu, nothing is straight about it
<charlie-tca> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/result/5808/65
<charlie-tca> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/result/5810/64
<charlie-tca> took me 5 minutes to find the terminal
<drc> ok, got 'em...go to bed.
<charlie-tca> heh, good luck with that one
<charlie-tca> menu is the bottom left button, shutdown is a red square in that button, then click shutdown or restart
<drc> I've played with kubuntu a bit in the past month.
<charlie-tca> You are ahead of me then
<charlie-tca> I hadn't touched it in about two years
<drc> too much bling
<charlie-tca> Only thing I remembered is the editor was named kate
<charlie-tca> and I had to use kate, too
<charlie-tca> I had to put a patch in on the live cd to try and install it
<drc> I used kde for about 4 years...as part of the KDE on FeeeBSD porting team.
<drc> But that was way back in the day
<drc> Couldn't stand gnome in those days
<charlie-tca> should have had you running those kubuntu tests
<charlie-tca> You would have had an easier time than me
<drc> Tell you what, next time we have to do that, I'll do the kde and you can have all the re-sizing tests :)
<charlie-tca> heh, deal!
<charlie-tca> I do the tests in sequence... encrypted, whole disk, resize, manual
<drc> 20 min for both DL's and I'll jump on, so any time you want to leave, don't wait on me.
<charlie-tca> okay, but I got to get this test done
<charlie-tca> I've done this before, this time is my own fault for trying to help out the other teams
<drc> darn it, they name their files the same as we do :(
<charlie-tca> I ran about 8 Ubuntu tests, 6 Kubuntu tests, today
<charlie-tca> oh, yeah
<charlie-tca> We all use the same name for development releases
<drc> confazzled me for a moment
<charlie-tca> We change names for the final release, to keep the users from overwriting each distribution
<charlie-tca> Tomorrow I use Dasher all day, to write with.
<charlie-tca> Oh, by the way, barring a respin for any reason, there will not be new images until Friday
<drc> what happened to Dancer and Prancer?  As in, what's Dasher?
<charlie-tca> Dancer and Prancer got good legs. 
<charlie-tca> Dasher is assistive writing technology. It is an application that lets you write using the mouse only
<drc> Good. Gives me a chance to play with VB
<charlie-tca> Got a really high learning curve, but can do almost anything the hardware keyboard can, and you can write at about 30 words per minute with it
<charlie-tca> words per minute or characters per minute?
<charlie-tca> I think I type at 40 characters per minute, so dasher is about 30 characters per minute
<charlie-tca> Considering it is mouse only, that is a pretty fast rate
<charlie-tca> I got a couple of bugs in dasher I have to test
<charlie-tca> I work with the upstream developers to get the bugs in it fixed for Ubuntu
<drc> You are, indeed, a glutton for punishment.
<drc> hm....the youngest daughter must be WoWing now, the DL rate just dropped :)
<GridCube> jajaja
<GridCube> XD
<drc> Maybe her fairy-bunny-healer will take a whack from the lag
<GridCube> talking about games
<GridCube> i feel like playing quake
<GridCube> oh... i had it on the drive that got formated :(
<micahg> charlie-tca: yes, anything that provides a notification-daemon needs to conflict with notification-daemon
<drc> OK, KDE done...time for a beer, bath and bed :)
<drc> Tomorrow all.
<drc> charlie-tca: Still Around?
<charlie-tca> Anything new/better to add to release notes for Oneiric Alpha1?
<charlie-tca> We should have a news item for alpha1 release today
<plantoschka> is alpha 1 online already?
<charlie-tca> no
<charlie-tca> alpha1 will be release sometime today, UTC time
<plantoschka> ok :)
<cody-somerville> lol
<cody-somerville> I've finally upgraded to natty (shame on me).
<cody-somerville> Bluebird is the new theme, right? Whats the default icon set?
<charlie-tca> no
<charlie-tca> greybird with elementary xubuntu dark icons
<charlie-tca> tying to crash dasher today 
<cody-somerville> ah. I think I'll use bluebird. I like the blue. helps lower my blood pressure, lol
<charlie-tca> it not as easy as typing yet 
<charlie-tca> Yeah, It would have that effect. I like the greys, myself
<charlie-tca> Then again, I can read better on lighter backgrounds
<GridCube> dasher is the onscreen writing thing?
<GridCube> ain't that for touchscreen devices?
<cody-somerville> ah, selecting the greybird xfwm4 theme with greybird gtk theme looks nicer
<cody-somerville> (then just the gtk theme)
<charlie-tca> well, yeah... :-)
<cody-somerville> Bluebird gtk theme w/ greybird xfwm4 theme is kinda hot
<charlie-tca> dasher is anyone that can not use the hardware keyboard 
<charlie-tca> but i seem to be only at about 2words per minute
<charlie-tca> e Ican type about 40 
<cody-somerville> not having a bottom panel is so weird
<charlie-tca> It is there, but hidden
<cody-somerville> I know,
<charlie-tca> oh, yeah, and it is a launcher panel now
<charlie-tca> I put my own in, two of them side by side, one is launchers and one is workspaces
<cody-somerville> the weird part is how I have to look at the lower part of my screen now
<charlie-tca> yeah, I gave up on that part
<cody-somerville> wow, gmusicbrowser is kinda confusing
<GridCube> I know i might be the only one here, but who else really dislikes having the exit icon on the upper panel? really close to the [x] close button? one of the very first things i do whit every install is moving the panel down XD
<charlie-tca> I like it on the upper panel in the left corner
<charlie-tca> no, right corner
<cody-somerville> GridCube, Not sure what you mean. In natty, there is no exit icon... just the session menu in the upper right
<charlie-tca> I couldn't keep that, either. I switched it out for the logout menu
 * charlie-tca thinks it is really called Action Menu instead
<GridCube> yeah that too
<cody-somerville> hmm... my multimedia keys no longer work (except for volume). :(
<charlie-tca> That's the kernel's fault
<charlie-tca> unless they are missing from shortcuts again?
<cody-somerville> hmm... they work in Exaile
<GridCube> question
<charlie-tca> sounds like the kernel to me 
<GridCube> when gtk3 comes out, how will it be handled? both gtk engines will run simultanously or only one at each time?
<GridCube> i mean, will xfce use gtk3 or just some apps?
<charlie-tca> there are a few bug reports on that 
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu will be using some Gtk3 apps, but Xfce will not
<GridCube> oh ok
<charlie-tca> So, we will have both gtk2 and gtk3 in Xubuntu
<charlie-tca> for a very long time, too, apparently
<GridCube> ok but will that compromise the system? in terms of speed or stability?
<charlie-tca> unknown yet
<GridCube> kk
<charlie-tca> hm, shortcut keys don't all work
<charlie-tca> apparently, Alt+F11 is not working at all
<charlie-tca> If you full screen an app, it is stuck there
<micahg> GridCube: not any more that any other library dependency, the only rule is one app cannot use both GTK2 and GTK3 at the same time
<GridCube> i see
<GridCube> yesterday i tried a gtk3 app on oneiric, and it failed :(
<micahg> heh, which one?
<GridCube> http://paste.ubuntu.com/616026
<charlie-tca> because we aren't quite there yet, maybe?
<charlie-tca> not everything has been ported over to gtk3 yet
<micahg> ooh, that's a bug :), but yeah, kinda expected at alpha1
<GridCube> :P
<GridCube> thats why i didn't say anything about it
<GridCube> XD
<micahg> GridCube: gedit seems to work for me even with the errors
<GridCube> yes
<GridCube> it works
<GridCube> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/94002
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 94002 in Ubuntu "Fiesty logs-out when shutdown seleceted" [Undecided,Invalid]
<GridCube> this happens too
<GridCube> well not for me
<GridCube> for a friend on 11.04
<charlie-tca> it is a new bug
<GridCube> is there a way to fix it
<charlie-tca> This one, I think - bug 711571
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 711571 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu Natty) "xfdesktop4 crashes on exit with xorg-server 1.10" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/711571
<GridCube> yes i found that
<GridCube> but i don't understand it
<charlie-tca> the workaround is to log out first, then shutdown from gdm using that little red symbol at the bottom
<charlie-tca> that is the bug that causes the logout instead of shutdown. It is not a simple thing to fix
<plantoschka> maybe lightdm will fix it?
<charlie-tca> no, lightdm will not affect issues with Xorg
<charlie-tca> it is not caused by gdm, which lightDM will replace
 * GridCube know he might have already asked this
<GridCube> will lightDM allow for user avatars?
<charlie-tca> I don't know yet
<micahg> lightdm is just a backend, you can have a custom front-end greeter on top of it
<drc> OK, need a little VB help...created VM on the Oneiric32 ISO, installed and upgraded in VB.  What I can't figure out (although I *know* it will be a facepalm momnent) is how to save it so the next time I boot that VM it does not revert to the ISO.
<drc> A URL will be fine.
<charlie-tca> um, you shutdown, then remove the iso from the storage preferences
<TheSheep> drc: Visual Basic?
<drc> baa
<charlie-tca> TheSheep - one, drc - zero    lol
<charlie-tca> You don't delete the iso, just remove it from the controller
<charlie-tca> I usually switch the controller to the hardware device
<drc> Storage>IDE Controller?
<GridCube> O_o
<GridCube> drc you are using vbox?
 * drc gives everyone 5 minutes to gather around before he performs the Daily FacePalm Ritual :)
<davmor2> drc: under virtual box storage just click on the cd drive and then the picture of the cd to the right of the big drop down and then select unmount iso or what ever it says
<drc> Thanks everyone
<GridCube> drc_, http://imagebin.org/156503
<GridCube> ah
<GridCube> so late
<charlie-tca> did he get it?
<drc_> I got it
<drc_> Like I said, facepalm
<charlie-tca> heh
<charlie-tca> That's we are here, just to help out once in a while :-)
<drc_> One facepalm == 6 hours of fruitless searching, I think it's a good tradeoff
<charlie-tca> Would be faster to ask sooner, wouldn't it?
<drc_> hmmm, connection must have dropped...oh well
<charlie-tca> I usually give things a day or two, but I think I am unusual in that.
<GridCube> charlie-tca, being a person that study how and when people come asking for questions, let me tell you, they will brake things before asking
<drc_> charlie-tca: I didn't waste 6 hours *this time*, I took the facepalm route :)
<charlie-tca> That is sometimes a good thing. At least they try to find an answer
<charlie-tca> Me, I usually wait a day or two, just to make sure I really, really broke things
<GridCube> yeah, but im a librarian charlie-tca XD my job is providing them whit ennough information to find the answer faster
<davmor2> drc_: You need to add the D'oh catch phrase to round things off :)
<charlie-tca> heh, I suppose that is right
<charlie-tca> maybe a slap in the head, too
 * drc_ decides that the Xubuntu IRC has been taking nasty lessons from Debian IRC :)
<charlie-tca> low blow!
 * GridCube has never gone to debian irc
<GridCube> XD
<GridCube> oh yes once
<GridCube> not nice people
<GridCube> i had a silly problem and they where all like "go google it" and it was just "uncomment this line" kind of answer!
<GridCube> but i didn't knew how to search :(
<Unit193> I've heard Arch IRC isn't so bad... (I would have thought otherwise)
<GridCube> ok, gotta take a bath and then i have to go to classes :D today we are studying biografical databases :P
<drc_> Unit193: The reasonnis that the Arch people are so confident of their geekiness that they don;t need to prove it by being rude
<GridCube> whats next? gentoo people being nice?
<charlie-tca> I haven't found debian irc channel yet
 * Unit193 wouldn't use gentoo
<charlie-tca> fedora is pretty nice to deal with
<drc_> The LMDE irc channel folk are nice...can't speak to the main LM channel
<GridCube> c-ya
<drc_> study hard
<charlie-tca> huh?
<charlie-tca> nice but can't speak to them?
<drc_> charlie-tca: No, I can't say anthing about the main channel because I never used it
 * charlie-tca slaps head. 
<charlie-tca> should have read all the letters/words, I guess
 * drc_ ducks
<drc_> I should have been more precise.
 * Unit193 quacks incessantly!  *QUACK* *QUACK* *QUACK*
 * drc_ looks for his shotgun and Golden Retriever puppy
<Unit193> You're going with puppy?? ;)
<drc_> Gotta train her sometime
<drc_> Beside, I figure it'll be like Peter and the Wolf, Unit193 will be so busy quacking, he can sneak up on him quietly
 * charlie-tca thinks that is correct
 * charlie-tca throws a big hammer at the *QUACK*
<Unit193> There is a bot in another channel that says that ^^^ if you say /me ducks
 * DarkEra almost thought he was in the Offtopic channel 
<Unit193> drc_ isn't in there... (And thanks, now I had to watch it... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILI3s7Wonvg )
<charlie-tca> we think we are above mindless chatter here ;-)
<charlie-tca> Alpha1 is released!
<charlie-tca> Thanks to everybody that helped get this alpha1 out. 
<charlie-tca> It was a real combined effort
<drc_> And it's only slightly bÃrken :)
<charlie-tca> It's a lot further than it might have been. It is really great to have some help with it.
<Unit193> Do you have the link to the page that lists what builds worked? (I forgot to bookmark it...)
<charlie-tca> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricOcelot/TechnicalOverview
<charlie-tca> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2011-June/000853.html
<charlie-tca> or the iso tracker?
<charlie-tca> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/
<Unit193> Hmmm.... I thought there was a page to check what ISOs got built correctly...
<charlie-tca> oh, maybe the logs?
<charlie-tca> but the logs are distro specific, you have to have a different url for each one
<charlie-tca> or http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/
<charlie-tca> which is where I look to see if the images updated
<charlie-tca> all those pages, did I get it right yet?
<charlie-tca> want more urls to look at?
<Unit193> I'm not doing a good job of telling you want I was looking for (The cdimage one could work...)
<charlie-tca> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/cd-build-logs/xubuntu/oneiric/
<charlie-tca> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/cd-build-logs/ubuntu/oneiric/
<charlie-tca> I am running out of pages now...
<Unit193> Thanks a bunch, charlie-tca!
<charlie-tca> You are welcome
<charlie-tca> A review of Xubuntu 11.04 by Jim Lynch - http://desktoplinuxreviews.com/2011/06/01/xubuntu-11-04/
<drc_> charlie-tca: Just took a look at the test for Xubuntu done yesterday.  If thats representirive of what's done daily, I'll do the live, manual and entire tests and leave you to do the re-size, wubi encrypted.  Sound like a plan?
<charlie-tca> What test?
<charlie-tca> the short test? or the case test for qa?
<charlie-tca> Usually daily testijntg
<charlie-tca> Usually daiu
<drc_> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/xubuntu/all was the start page, so I guess it's QA
<charlie-tca> Usually daily testing, you pick a different partitioning to use each day, instead of trying to test all the stuff everyday
<drc_> Or is that only for milestones?
<charlie-tca> That qa tracker is for milestones
<drc_> ok then, back to the drawing board....
<charlie-tca> daily you don't run everything each day, just run one or two installs a day, and change the partitioning method each day.
<charlie-tca> By the end of the week, you did all those, without working all day at it
<drc_> Sounds like a plan.
<charlie-tca> I almost never did encrypted unless it was milestone testing
<charlie-tca> it's a pain to do and a pain to write over it
<drc_> One partitioning scheme per day it is, you want long or short test?
<charlie-tca> short
<drc_> :)
<charlie-tca> make it easy for yourself. 
 * drc_ wonders if he's mentioned he's lazy?
<charlie-tca> I would do one image, too, like alternate cd today. If it fails, try the live cd
<charlie-tca> and change that everyday too
<charlie-tca> It helps make sure everything is working
 * charlie-tca should probably say sometimes only one image works for days at a time, too
<drc_> OK, back to the old plan.
<charlie-tca> I have also had weeks where the images worked one day out of seven
<drc_> I was wondering how you managed the testing (like yesterday's) on a daily basis.
<charlie-tca> Can't
<charlie-tca> If I ran one alternate and one live each day, that takes up to an hour and half, for one partitioning method
 * micahg wonders if Firefox 5 was worth a mention in the release notes...(I guess that's not xubuntu specific)
<charlie-tca> I would have if some let me know to mention it
<charlie-tca> I would have if someone let me know to mention it
<charlie-tca> sorry, micahg 
<charlie-tca> I missed that
<charlie-tca> I did not realize it was firefox 5 already
<micahg> well, it's also for the Desktop image..
<charlie-tca> We don't mind scooping them sometimes
<micahg> heh
<charlie-tca> I will make a note to check those versions. We can at least let everyone know what version we are using
<micahg> alpha 2 will have 5 as well
<micahg> most likely
<charlie-tca> Then I will get it into those notes.
<charlie-tca> Alpha1 for us is usually a "we did get it in, right?" thing
<micahg> err, maybe not, if they release 5 on schedule, 6 will probably be in alpha2
<micahg> at least the beta
<micahg> charlie-tca: please make sure you include if it's a beta or not 
<charlie-tca> We only got alpha1 images starting with maverick or natty
<charlie-tca> oh, sure, now he wants even more from me :-)
<charlie-tca> noted
<micahg> cool, that means we're getting more legitimate
<drc_> Too legit to quit
<charlie-tca> yup
<charlie-tca> we used to start at alpha2 
<Unit193> I need to start testing the daily builds...
<charlie-tca> tomorrow
<charlie-tca> if we get an update
<charlie-tca> Meeting minutes are on the Mailing lists,
<charlie-tca> and at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<Unit193> I read them... Are you still trying to get a meet bot in here on those days?
<drc_> charlie-tca, Unit193: we need to coordinate the daily's so we don't duplicate each other and then miss something.
<charlie-tca> good idea
<charlie-tca> How would you like to do it? wiki page, email, put drc_ in charge of testing?
<charlie-tca> rotate so we get different equipment testing them, too. 
<Unit193> So I can't do this in VBox... OK!
<drc_> I think the best way would be to drop in here before starting, that way charlie-tca could let us know if anything important/urgent come up.
<charlie-tca> yes you can
<charlie-tca> Okay
<charlie-tca> That means I have to come in too?
<charlie-tca> Unit193: I test in VBox for Xubuntu
<drc_> hmmm...right :(
<charlie-tca> heh
<charlie-tca> I can do that. I might a day here and there, but you guys will figure it out
<charlie-tca> I will at least be here until you know what you are doing 
<charlie-tca> um, I might miss a day ...
<Unit193> I'll never know what I'm doing...
<drc_> This bears some more thinking on how it's divided up.  What say we drop in here for the next week to see how it goes, and then we can maybe make a more shceduled plan?  
<Unit193> I'll be in here anyway, so sounds good...
<Unit193> I just don't want to be the one that finds bugs :P
 * drc_ thinks the best way would be page like http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/xubuntu/all for daily testing, but that would probably be too much work.
 * drc_ takes off his thinking cap...it's causing brainfarts :(
<drc_> Unit193: Well, being relatively newbies at this, we'd have to run them by charlie-tca, and *he* could file them?
<drc_> It'd up his karma too.
<charlie-tca> Sounds good to me, I will be around
<charlie-tca> my karma?
<charlie-tca> I have some again?
<charlie-tca> We used to have a chart for qa smoke testing, where we record about a weeks worth of daily tests
<charlie-tca> We could build our own daily testing chart
<charlie-tca> We just make it a sub-page of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing
<charlie-tca> and put enough spaces in a table to show a day or two at a time. You overwrite fails when they pass, and track which tests got done each day for three or four days at a time
<charlie-tca> So let's try this for a week and see what we decide we do want
 * drc_ wishes he said that....
 * charlie-tca thought drc_  did say that
<drc_> I'll probably be dropping in about 09:00 CDT (UTC-5, iirc) daily.
<charlie-tca> I can drop in around 8:00 CDT then and check things out
<charlie-tca> Well, at least I will be up and about and checking things out. I may not get in that early
<charlie-tca> Some days I don't even get up before 6 your time
<drc_> charlie-tca: You need may email address...as a fallback?
<Unit193> I may be around at 1PM EST
 * micahg finds some worms for the early birds...
<charlie-tca> Which early birds?
<micahg> you and drc_ :)
<charlie-tca> drc_: not yet
 * charlie-tca doesn't get on line *that* early
<charlie-tca> at least on IRC 
 * charlie-tca thinks drc_ and Unit193 will file the bugs. his karma is down to 5900 again
<drc_> And mine up all the way up to....18!
<charlie-tca> but that goes up when I triage bugs. hm, I think I lost almost 10,000 points in six months
<charlie-tca> I started natty around 4000, so there is hope
<charlie-tca> well, I am going relax for an hour or so
<micahg> my karma is mostly uploads at this point
<Unit193> My karma is NOTHING! :D
<charlie-tca> They count better than bugs, though
<charlie-tca> Unit193: we will fix that this cycle
<Unit193> Erp...
<micahg> charlie-tca: I still have a lot of bug karma though (I think I'm #13 for ubuntu bugs)
<charlie-tca> wow
<Unit193> I guess it's actually 14...
<charlie-tca> I don't know where I am now, but it must be low
<charlie-tca> I haven't done much since about natty alpha2
<micahg> Unit193: yes, umm, 14th
<drc_> 5982 karma
<charlie-tca> You are doing good then, Dr_Who 
<charlie-tca> drc_, rather
 * micahg also gets bug karma for filing sync requests...
<drc_> No charlie-tca That's yours. mine is 18
<charlie-tca> yeah, every bug report filed gets you karma
<charlie-tca> That seems low now. I will have to triage some bugs and raise it
<drc_> As long as my karma does not exceed my age, I'm happy.
<charlie-tca> It just sort of happens
<charlie-tca> I went about two years before I even knew there was such a thing
<Dr_Who> charlie-tca, heh ...  but yeah I'm doing good too ;-)
<charlie-tca> Sorry, Dr_Who . Didn't mean to disturb you that way.
<charlie-tca> but I am glad you are doing good!
<Unit193> micahg: I was talking about my karma, not your place...
<micahg> oh, heh
<Unit193> Seems as I have the lowest karma...
<drc_> Unit193: You'll come back as a bug, and charlie-tca will have to file and squash you.
<micahg> Unit193: the answer to that is simple, just start doing :)
<Unit193> drc_: That could be!
<Unit193> micahg: I installed Xubuntu 11.04 before release. I'm not saying I was a tester, just testing it....
<micahg> karma might die anyways
 * drc_ has decided that if he was King of the World, distro reviewers would have to spena at least 8 work hours (after install) before writing a review, he's tired of reviews that focus on how pretty the install is :(
<cody-somerville> How do I disable session saving? It seems to have gotten re-enabled on upgrade.
<drc_> Settings>Session and Startup
<drc_> >General
<cody-somerville> yea, thats unchecked
<cody-somerville> but its definitely loading a session at login
<drc_> Look and see what's "if running" in Sessions, then?
<drc_> I know if I leave pidgin and such running when I quit, it autostarts in the next session
<drc_> Other than that, I'm out of ideas.
<Unit193> You can delete the file (or dir...)
<drc_> Unit193: ~/.cache/sessions?
<Unit193> drc_: Might do
<Unit193> Did we just kill him?
<cody-somerville> It appears that option is no longer respected.
<cody-somerville> as it saves a new session regardless
<charlie-tca> try right click panel, panel -> Logout, uncheck save session?
#xubuntu-devel 2011-06-03
<drc> Are the nightly builds 7/week or ?
<Unit193> He done gone...
<drc> Charlie-tca? I know I was hoping one of the others would know (I'm trying to rough out a testing schedule ")
<Unit193> [19:16:53] charlie-tca (~cjk@ubuntu/member/charlie-tca) has quit (Quit: Time to leave, I guess ...)
 * drc turns off joins/parts...a holdover from really busy channels like #ubuntu
<Unit193> That was before you got on... (After you got off too...)
<drc> Unit193: 1) Is the machine you will be testing on 32 or 64?
<Unit193> drc: The OS is 32 (Will be using VM if I can...)
<drc> Unit193: Is the hardware 64 or 32?
<Unit193> Supports 64 (If I really have to do an install, it will be on a 32 only)
<drc> Can on VN 64 bit OS on 32 bit hardware?
<drc> bag
<micahg> no
<drc> Didn't think so.
<drc> micahg:  Do you if the nightly builds are 7/week or ?
<micahg> idk how often the CDs are spun
<drc> Thanks
<drc> Unit193: It took me a while (and a few facepalm questions) to figure VB out (such as I have).
 * Unit193 haz de smartz ;)
<drc> Would you be more comfortable doing 32 bit testing (VB or hardware) or does it matter?
<Unit193> I won't be doing any 64bit
<drc> ok, 32 bit it is :)
<Unit193> I'm not the only user of the 64bit computer
<drc> Makes it easy :)
<drc> Unit193: Still Here?
<Unit193> drc: No I am not
<drc> OK, when you came back let me know what you think of this:  http://pastebin.com/zuhMNeLY
<Unit193> I would have to do manual?
<drc> According to this schedule, yes.  They are not hard, I can walk you thru one (esp in VB, so you can be here too).  If you could do 64bit then I could do all the manual and you could do Entire Disk.
<drc> If you really don't want to do manual, we could ge someone else (me, charlie-tca, someone) to do the manuals
<Unit193> (The name just sounds bad...) What is it again? I don't remember... Maybe just a manual swap and HDD size?
<drc> It's a manual partiton:  you specify what and how big the partitons are.  For testing a 1 gig swap and the rest for / would work.  Once you've done one, it's really easy
<drc> VB default hhd is 8gig, iirc
<drc> so 1 gig swap,and the rest for / will be fine
<drc> Beside if you do it in VB, then you can always do it over :)
<Unit193> I'm not bad at using linux...
<Unit193> I just always do the auto path (Swap size = how much ram you have)
<drc> I didn't mean to suggest anthing like that, sorry.
<Unit193> drc: You didn't! I was just making sure you know I'm not totally stupid ;)
<drc> :)
<drc> Sorry, I tend to get in my lectural mode at times.
<cody-somerville> wow. there is a serious performance issue with natty.
<cody-somerville> I seem to be offering from unnaturally high iowaits
<cody-somerville> : - (
<cody-somerville> I think it has something to do with jbd2 or something.
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<ochosi> hey charlie-tca 
<ochosi> so after a few days of testing, what do you think about the darker panel?
<charlie-tca> Still using the revised theme
<charlie-tca> DejaDup has a very dark icon
<charlie-tca> the panel is working fine for me. I say go with it, and we tweak as we go through the cycle?
<charlie-tca> I am upgrading this to Oneiric this weekend. Let's hope it works
<ochosi> k, let's do that
<ochosi> uuh, then good luck :)
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: Can we add pavucontrol to defaults? It does make audio work most of the time
<ochosi> also, as soon as you're on oneiric, you could test the latest greybird from git (i mean the gtk3 stuff)
<ochosi> anyhow, gotta go now
<charlie-tca> ochosi: yes, I may have lost my mind this time
<charlie-tca> I will try to grab the git stuff then
<ochosi> k, i'm off for the weekend
<ochosi> have fun!
<charlie-tca> Yoiu  too
<ochosi> and probably i'll make it to the meeting on sunday
<ochosi> if not, you know everything about artwork already anyway ;)
<charlie-tca> Great! Maybe we can increase participation with that change, too
<charlie-tca> No new images yet
<drc> I saw....gives us more time to work on http://pastebin.com/z1dD70zx (I just couldn't leave well enough alone last night)
<charlie-tca> Looks good to me.
<drc> I didn't include upgrades because I think you said that you did that on hardware once you installed after A1?
<charlie-tca> oh, yeah.
<charlie-tca> but we test them every milestone, too
<charlie-tca> I prepped my machine last night so will upgrade to Oneiric this weekend
<charlie-tca> I will be running Oneiric Monday
<drc> charlie-tca: I would have liked to mix the 32/64 up. but Unit193 can only test on 32 bit. Also, I gave you the resize and encrypt (being the more complicated) until I can figure it out (once I'm comfortable with testing in general)
<drc> Any way, It's a start to deviate from :)
<drc> Keeps us from duplication and everyone knows what they (and everyone else) is/are doing.
<charlie-tca> That works
<charlie-tca> Want to add it to the wiki?
<drc> Not in that shape :(
<charlie-tca> heh
<charlie-tca> okay
<charlie-tca> Are you on the xubuntu-devel mailing list?
<drc> yes
<drc> BTW, I agree, the new windows user is not our target audience.
<charlie-tca> I started the marketing discussion again. Hopefully, we will get something besides just emails this time
<drc> You mean "help" not "mail" ?
<charlie-tca> I don't understand 
<charlie-tca> where?
<charlie-tca> yes, I think
<drc> I meant: You would like people to actually help with marketing, not just email to the list?
<charlie-tca> Yes, that's the idea I had ;-)
<drc> Good Luck
<charlie-tca> That seems to be a really hard thing to get help with, too.
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: WARNING - I gave the UbuntuStudio guys your name to ask for help with converting the xubuntu-settings package for Studio use.
<drc> Well, one suggestion I would have is to get Xubuntu included in the "blurbs" that are put out...Ubuntu and Kubuntu are talked about but Xubuntu is conspicuous by it's absence.  I'll try to find examples. Once I do, I'll post this to that list discussion.
<charlie-tca> That's because I don't know what to put in, many times
<charlie-tca> We have to get someone to write the news stuff for us.
<knome> charlie-tca, you can remove the teleconference from the meeting agenda for now. i've been dead busy with other things, mostly life, and haven't had a second to think about that
<charlie-tca> Thanks. Any suggestions how to get more people involved in marketing?
<charlie-tca> knome: You know how that one goes. Everyone is willing to say "you did it wrong" but no one is willing to actually try and help with it.
<knome> get a new blog and write about low-hanging fruit
<knome> i did write a post in the ML about that, didn't i? (i might have forgotten to send)
<charlie-tca> I don't know now. I remember you bi
<charlie-tca> bringing it up, but don't know where?
<knome> probably the ml
<knome> let me search the history
<knome> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2011-April/007770.html
<knome> there we go
<charlie-tca> What you mean "get a new blog"?
<charlie-tca> I have to do it?
<knome> i mean, when we get the new blog at xubuntu.org
<charlie-tca> okay
<charlie-tca> Can we resend that message with a new subject?
<knome> i wouldn't start writing those articles to our current blog because the site is a bit crappy
<knome> (at least a bit old)
<knome> sure, or just fwd/re to that message :)
<charlie-tca> take it out of themes and into Help[ with the website, maybe?
<knome> sorry, didn't follow that
 * drc thought charlie-tca did everything Xubuntu relate.
<charlie-tca> I want to change the subject to "Help with the Xubuntu website" or something 
<knome> right
<knome> charlie-tca, you are welcome to do that
<charlie-tca> Thank you. Wouldn't do it w
<knome> charlie-tca, probably better to send that to the users ML then
<charlie-tca> Thank you. Wouldn't do it without asking the author first
<charlie-tca> Good idea! I can send it to both lists
<knome> but as i said, i think we need to start writing those short things to our blog only when we have our new blog set up
<charlie-tca> Also, want to try to get something like that into the newsletter
<knome> yeah.. could have some chances
<charlie-tca> Got to keep trying. You been pushing it for a long time, I been pushing it for a long time. Maybe this is the year to get more people involved?
<charlie-tca> knome: I will simply mark the tele-conference as completed/replaced by email on the ML
<drc> Asssuming that the nightly builds get into a regular cycle, is it normally a 7/week or 5/week or ?
<charlie-tca> 7 days a week
<knome> charlie-tca, i hope so. tbh, things are not looking as good as they could with shimmer as mr. shuttleworth decided to go with a different gtk3 engine
<charlie-tca> oh, no!
<knome> well yeah
<charlie-tca> Hm, big problem trying to change/include it?
<knome> means that if we do a theme for xubuntu, we need to do the theme again, if we want it to be available for other distros..
<charlie-tca> Ubuntu is out by itself again, huh?
<knome> charlie-tca, well, all distros can probably just include both of the engines, but that's crap again
<knome> yeah, bit like.
<charlie-tca> Going to be an interesting couple of years, I think.
<knome> as ochosi said, he (and me too) thought that the engine wars could have ended with gtk3 coming out
<knome> i suppose this is closely related to unity/g3 shell thing
<charlie-tca> heh, Got to have something to fight about.
<knome> probably yeah, but that isn't a very solid business plan to fight about everything
<knome> even if it meant you'd have a technology (probably worse) than others do
<charlie-tca> true
<charlie-tca> I think Mark decided on Unity before Gnome decided on Gnome3, even, though. Gnome had said there would be no version 3
<charlie-tca> and after unity was announced, changed their minds
<knome> i don't know, i didn't follow the conversation
<charlie-tca> I did a little research back into it
<knome> what ever the truth is, i really think gnome and ubuntu should have started to work cooperatively on this
 * drc looks for the unicorns and pixies :)
<drc> charlie-tca: What do you think about a 7/week testing cycle (http://pastebin.com/Gdg4hg6G). That way everything is covered once a week.
<drc> It means only 2 tests a day...with 3 testers now, it gives us more flexability to react without adding to one's workload or messing with the schedule.
<charlie-tca> I think that is too many days. The cycle is six months. daily testing 7 days a week for six months is a lot. We also should have something that says if a day is missed, it's either covered by another tester.
<charlie-tca> I think we need a day off now and again. yes, there will be many days without images, but even so, we should not schedule anything that makes a person feel bad about taking a day off
<drc> True Dat
<drc> One more question, then I'll come up with a final draft plan and quit bothering you :)
<drc> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/xubuntu/all says the encryption test are to be dome with the ALT ISO...wouldn't someone be more likely to use the LiveCD to do an encrypted install?
<charlie-tca> Can't do a full encrypted drive with the live cd
<charlie-tca> You can only do /home
<drc> ah, only home?
<drc> Understand
<charlie-tca> yeah
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: I would guess you already saw this, but just in case, we might think about it: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2011-June/033344.html
<GridCube> good evening mister charlie-tca :)
<charlie-tca> Good evening, GridCube 
<drc> OK, final draft plan   http://pastebin.com/aYBESyTN
<charlie-tca> Let's try it
<charlie-tca> If I read that right, we cover all the tests on all the images every 4 days?
<drc> ok...Day 1 starts the next nightly build?
<charlie-tca> Sure
<drc> Yes, if I've don't my homework correctly...double-check me to make sure I didn't leave any out, please.
<drc> Er...every 4 testing days, we can say we test every other day if we want, and then it takes 8 days to cover, etc.
<drc> Unit193: You here?
<charlie-tca> well, let's decide
<drc> Up to you, you're the jefe :) Personally I'd say let's test it every other day for now (it's early alpha and that way we can adjust it easier if we need to).
<charlie-tca> What does Unit193 think about this?
<charlie-tca> where is he hiding today?
<drc> Disneyland?
<charlie-tca> I should have gone there, too 
<drc> No, I changed my mind, let's do it every day for 2 cycles; that will let us see if it works faster.  Then we can decide if we want to go every other day.
<charlie-tca> okay
<drc> After the 2 cycle test, we can send it to the ML and figure out how to formally write it up and add it to the wiki.
<charlie-tca> drc: got all the tests in there
<drc> Good
<charlie-tca> hm, is it Unit193 or GridCube we are looking for?
<charlie-tca> GridCube is one of the milestone testers
<drc> Unit193 was talking about daily testing, Grid about milestones.  Unit193 can only do 32bit testing, however.  Are there any more people that "normally" help you with the testing that we can plug in?
<charlie-tca> no
<charlie-tca> I did it all for two years +
<drc> super-charlie-tca
<charlie-tca> tired-charlie-tca
 * drc wonders if he ought to hold out for more money?
<charlie-tca> heh
<charlie-tca> sure, and put me in for some too?
<GridCube> :D
<drc> Hey GridCube: You want in on the daily testing (see http://pastebin.com/aYBESyTN ) ?  I think we have it down to just one test perperson per day (except super-charlie-tca, of course), so it won't be the long drill the Milestone testing was.
<GridCube> drc, i can not asure you that i will be able to do that sorry :/
<drc> OK...worth a shot :)
<charlie-tca> Better to say no than say yes and then not be able to
<GridCube> if you ask me those days and i can i will try, but it has to be a case by case thing :P
<drc> Deal!
<Unit193> charlie-tca , drc: Looking
<charlie-tca> We are willing to hjave
<charlie-tca> We are willing to have day by day help! It does work.
<drc> Oh yeah!
 * drc catches charlie-tca looking towards the bullpen, looking to see if the relief pitchers are actually warming up after 2 years :)
 * charlie-tca is taking the wait and see approach
 * drc moves his chaw to the other cheek and spits.
 * charlie-tca couldn't believe there were testers for alpha1, even
<charlie-tca> tbh, we have had some help with the milestones
<drc> biab
<Unit193> Marketing Xubuntu: People that don't like Unity and want something close to the old Gnome look
<charlie-tca> I hesitate to use "old Gnome look" because it is subject to changing
<Unit193> Yes, but what about Unity alt?
<charlie-tca> That might be a good approach
<charlie-tca> Know anyone that can help with selling Xubuntu?
<Unit193> I don't think so...
<Unit193> Along the lines of Larry Cafiero, there are some statewide events (Like OLF here) Could someone maybe use that time to market Xubuntu?
<charlie-tca> yes, but it usually requires someone local that can attend
<drc> To be honest, while local events a a good idea, I think that if charlie-tca is right, and I think he is (We are in a good position to look towards those intermediate and expert users), then the 1) the website and 2) reviews and blogs (that will show up in a google search) are the first approach we do.
<charlie-tca> Our budget is kind of low
<drc> We need to keep our website absolutely up to date, add Xubuntu to the K/Ubuntu PR blergs that are released and get outside reviewers to look at Xubuntu (not just K/U) seriously.
<Unit193> It was worth a shot...
<charlie-tca> It is always worth suggesting
<charlie-tca> website is going to be problematic. We are in the middle of switching it from drupal to wordpress
<Unit193> (That's another reason I didn't put it on the ML; Public shoot downs are never as good...
<charlie-tca> True
<charlie-tca> Why not send that "instead of Unity or Gnome shell" to the ML, though?
<Unit193> Because I'm scared of sending to ML :P (Really, I don't even send to our LoCo)
<drc> Quick change of topics, while all three of us are here, when we get the next daily build, Day 1 is declared and Unit193 will do the 32bit LiveCD Test, I'll do the 64bit Alt Test, and super-charlie-tca will do the 64bit LiveCD-Resize and 32bit Alt=Encrypt Tests?
<charlie-tca> Okay, I can do that
<charlie-tca> That should be tomorrow. I requested the server be kicked back in, so we get new images starting tomorrow
<Unit193> Tomorrow should work
<charlie-tca> maybe #ubuntu-marketing would help us?
<Unit193> You're the smart one... (I don't know as much about that as you and I would guess drc also doesn't)
 * drc 's motto is "If ignorance is bliss, I'm the happiest man on earth".
<charlie-tca> How did I get to be the smart one?
<Unit193> Easy! sysi wasn't around! ;)
<charlie-tca> lol
<Unit193> Can't seem to find the command that starts the correct xfce4-session...
<charlie-tca> from a tty if no desktop is running - startxfce4
<charlie-tca> from a tty or terminal if desktop is running - xfce4-session
<Unit193> charlie-tca: Thanks, sadly NX closes with the correct command...
<Unit193> (Just had to make sure I was using the correct command)
<charlie-tca> micahg: what will I need to do to replace gdm with lightDM this weekend? 
<micahg> charlie-tca: change it in the seed and possible respin xubuntu-meta, I can do one of those :)
<charlie-tca> no, for my own use. I will be installing Oneiric
<micahg> charlie-tca: ah, just install lightdm, debconf will ask you which one you want to use
<charlie-tca> okay
<charlie-tca> I like the other one, too. I just thought I would try before pushing too hard to make it default
<charlie-tca> I also want to explore the possibility of installing both firefox and midori as browsers in the installations, not on live cd
<charlie-tca> finally, I know what is closing these channels on me
<micahg> well, that's another meg at least
<charlie-tca> But space is not so critical when it is an installation only app
<micahg> I'd suggest waiting to see how much room we have to work with
<charlie-tca> We can't just put a hook or something saying install this one too?
<micahg> charlie-tca: it still needs to be on the CD, just not in the live fs unless I'm misunderstanding something
<charlie-tca> oh
<charlie-tca> I see. I did not know that.
<micahg> I could be wrong :)
<charlie-tca> me too
<knome> anything in the default installation needs to be on the cd
<charlie-tca> and yes, space might be critical this cycle
<charlie-tca> I would take pavucontrol over most stuff, then
<knome> i suppose we can cut that down a notch with the unused wallpapers etc., if that is not done already
<charlie-tca> nope
<charlie-tca> we only got two or three, don't we?
<micahg> charlie-tca: why pavucontrol over xfce4-mier
<micahg> *xfce4-mixer
<knome> charlie-tca, there is still the xfce wallpapers?
<charlie-tca> micahg: pavucontrol and xfce4-mixer
<charlie-tca> pavucontrol is additional, it makes audio work with pulse audio for most users
<micahg> charlie-tca: xfce4-mixer does that already
<charlie-tca> no
<charlie-tca> It doesn't
<micahg> yes, it does
<charlie-tca> That is one of the biggest problems we get in #xubuntu
<charlie-tca> and installing pavucontrol fixes it for most users
 * micahg uses it to do it :)
<micahg> hmm, pavucontrol is 50k smaller, idk about the deps though
<charlie-tca> Well, for the majority of users with no audio, installing pavucontrol makes audio work
<charlie-tca> That has become the first response now to "no audio"
<micahg> right, we don't ship xfce4-mixer anymore
<micahg> oh, I guess we do, weird
<knome> charlie-tca, that's true, but we should really fix the bug itself (no mute in pa) rather than push pavucontrol as default
<micahg> right, speaker mute by default is a bug
 * micahg guesses lennart's "fix" was to write pavucontrol
<charlie-tca> speaker mute by default has been a bug for almost the life of Xubuntu
<charlie-tca> We only got one release that it wasn't muted
<micahg> yep, it's a pulseaudio but I think
<charlie-tca> We got plenty of bug reports for it, but in the meantime, users are frustrated with it not working
<micahg> charlie-tca: well, the fix w/out pavucontrol is to open xfce4-mixer and increase the speaker volume
<charlie-tca> That fails for most users
<micahg> wfm
<charlie-tca> pavucontrol is a solid way to get audio for the majority of our users with problems. Nothing else works for them.
<micahg> k, well, replacing xfce4-mixer w/pavucontrol might be an option (would probably save space)
<charlie-tca> Why not in addition to. Installing pavucontrol does not require removal of the mixer
<charlie-tca> it doesn't add itself to the panel, just to the menu
<micahg> pavucontrol is a mixer though
<charlie-tca> but it doesn't use the panel/indicator area at all
 * micahg also thought sound control was happening through the sound menu
<micahg> s/menu/indicator
<micahg> unless that's not installed by defaulr
<micahg> *default
<charlie-tca> pavucontrol installs as an item in Multimedia only
<charlie-tca> but it allows the user to turn on his audio
<charlie-tca> I don't know all the ins and outs, but I know how to get sound for most of the issues our users have. 
<astraljava> Guys, where does support for xubuntu+1 take place? #ubuntu+1, here, or...?
<Unit193> ubuntu+1
<astraljava> Well, support maybe not in its traditional sense.
<astraljava> Unit193: Thanks.
<Unit193> What type of support?
<astraljava> No idea, just someone asked on #ubuntu+1 where to get it.
#xubuntu-devel 2011-06-04
<Unit193> drc: Internet issues?
<DarkEra> drc needs to enter his password in Xchat not only in nickserv but also in server to solve the changing host and cloak problem. ;-)
<Unit193> I have SASL so even timeouts don't take it off...
<DarkEra> and if you do  /set irc_join_delay 10  ?
<DarkEra> seems i read that wrong.... my bad
<cody-somerville> I think there might be a serious memory leak issue with natty. 
<cody-somerville> and indeed I can confirm
<cody-somerville> gltext has a massive memory leak
<DarkEra> does this affect every *buntu Natty release?
 * DarkEra is still trying to learn after 3 years of using Linux
<cody-somerville> Out of the box, only Xubuntu + Mythbuntu. We're the only ones who use xscreensaver.
<cody-somerville> s/use/ship by default/
<cody-somerville> Does reboot work for anyone else? It doesn't work for me.
<DarkEra> so this memory leak could have caused the freeze of my netbook then yesterday evening while the screensaver was on for a while
<Unit193> cody-somerville: I'm currently stuck in TTY right now...
<cody-somerville> DarkEra, Yes!
<cody-somerville> DarkEra, Its caused *huge* performance issues for me as it causes all my other applications to swap to disk
<cody-somerville> and then they're super slow
<cody-somerville> and I was like... ugh, natty sucks
<DarkEra> i needed to shut it down... the hard way :(
<cody-somerville> DarkEra, Try disabling the gltext screensaver and see if you run into the problem again.
<cody-somerville> LP #768032 is the bug, btw.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 768032 in xscreensaver (Ubuntu Natty) "gltext seems to leak memory eventually causing oom-killer to run" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/768032
<DarkEra> cody-somerville, i set the screensaver on Blank Screen only and had no problems after that
<Pjotr> I would like to make a suggestion for Xubuntu 11.10
<Pjotr> The default desktop would look much nicer and tidier, if all hard disk partitions wouldn't be mounted automatically
<charlie-tca> agreed
<charlie-tca> but to not mount them would also mean not auto-mounting cdrom or usb drives
<Pjotr> easy to change of course, but first impressions are important. 
<Pjotr> @charlie-tca: can't thoise categories be separated?
<charlie-tca> But not easy to make happen
<charlie-tca> They are not separate in Xfce, which makes it very difficult
<Pjotr> an issue for upstream then?
<charlie-tca> yes, which they are working on
<Pjotr> in Xfce 4.10? Or will it be backported to 4.8 as well?
<charlie-tca> don't know yet if it will be available in 4.10
<Pjotr> OK.... Thanks for the info
<Pjotr> One other issue: the default wallpaper in Xubuntu is very dark. It would look much more atractive if a lighter wallpaper would be used. Again: in order to improve first impression....
<charlie-tca> Everybody seems to have a different opinion when it comes to light vs dark wallpaper. We had many people hate the lighter background.
<charlie-tca> However, it is very easy to change wallpapers.
<Pjotr> yes, but first impressions matter...
<charlie-tca> and many people think the darker wallpaper is a huge improvement over the light
<charlie-tca> again, different opinions
<charlie-tca> We can't please everyone
<Pjotr> tastes differ. :P
<charlie-tca> exactly
<charlie-tca> which is why we include the light background, all you have to do is change it
<charlie-tca> but most people don't see it much, since they open their applications and go to work
<Pjotr> that's true ofcourse. 
<Pjotr> well, Xubuntu 11.04 has become very elegant, I think
<charlie-tca> Thank you
<Pjotr> a good contender for Unity
<Pjotr> the dock is particularly nice, I think. Both beautiful and functional
<charlie-tca> A lot of time and effort went into making the theme and panels work well
<Pjotr> it's steady as a rock as well. Thanks for a great product!  :-)
<charlie-tca> Thanks for letting us know.
<Pjotr> have to go now. bye.
<drc> 57 updates? On a Daily Build?
<charlie-tca> huh?
<charlie-tca> seems low
<charlie-tca> alternate images don't exist
<charlie-tca> We should start seeing between 100 and 200 a day soon
<drc> I know  I was doing Live-64-Entire...just for practice.
<charlie-tca> We will have a ton of updates daily real soon
<drc> This was not an update, this was a fresh install of the daily build. Ther are that many updates between the time they build the image and now?
<charlie-tca> and, yes, they will build the images, an hour later there will be a lot of updates for that image
 * drc starts looking for his LMDE cd....er...dvd ;)
<charlie-tca> The image is just a snapshot of what is there at the moment of the build
<charlie-tca> Since updates are put through 24 hours a day, they never stop
<charlie-tca> I don't think we will get a fix on the alternate image this weekend, since the weekend after the milestone is usually pretty dead
<charlie-tca> I think it is a server issue, though
<drc> Well, then that server will get no tip from me, such lousy service.
<charlie-tca> heh
<drc> Well well well..."Not all updates can be installed"
<charlie-tca> normal
<charlie-tca> it means that they are still updating packages
<drc> just do the partial?
<drc> or wait
<charlie-tca> or they broke the update-manager
<charlie-tca> partial will break things
<drc> wait it is
<charlie-tca> most of the time
<drc> OK...how to get VB to recognize a USB Stick...I've done Settings>USB, Enable USB controller is checked, The USB stick is there and checked, When I run the VM the USB is there in Devices> USBDevices, but greyed out and it won't mount?
<drc> me thinks this will be another facepalm moment for him...and so early in the day too....
<charlie-tca> click the usb thing at the bottom of the vbox window
<charlie-tca> after you launched
<charlie-tca> I don't know how to install from it, though
<charlie-tca> clicking it or right clicking it lets you mount it
<drc> NO USB Devices Attached...click does nothing...the greyed out USB stck is listed there also.
<drc> OH well...can't do any tests...calls for a USB test and I can;t do one...Oh Woe Is Me....
<charlie-tca> okay, are you in the VBox users group on the main system?
<charlie-tca> Users must be added to the vboxusers group to allow USB drives to be used in VirtualBox 
<charlie-tca> go to menu -> System -> Users and Groups
<charlie-tca> Add drc to the group vboxusers
<charlie-tca> Then you have to restart or logout to activate that change
<charlie-tca> Then you can use USB in VBox
<charlie-tca> This is harder to find in the documentation for VBox
<drc> orly?
<charlie-tca> yup, knome found it 
<drc> On the Host, not the VM, right?
<charlie-tca> right
<drc> logout
<drc> Works
<charlie-tca> Good
<charlie-tca> now to get some testing done...
<drc> I *knew* if I mentioned not being able to test, you'd find a solution :)
<drc> 64-Live-Entire short test done
<charlie-tca> Wow! that was fast, too
<drc> That's what my wife says too....
<charlie-tca> if you use sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade, there are 59 upgrades, 1 new, 3 removed
<drc> The only odd thing was  Firefox: about:startpage - Not Found - The requested URL /11.10/Google was not found on this server.
<charlie-tca> nothing held back
<charlie-tca> You need to run updates, that was fixed
<drc> darn it
<drc> I was gonna take a nap...tiring work, testing
<charlie-tca> I know ;-)
<charlie-tca> I might have to take tomorrow off, too.
<drc> Well...I suppose...maybe we could let you.
<drc> Assuming the update goes well, an email to the -devel ML stating the test done and the results would be in order?
<charlie-tca> yeah, that would be good
<drc> Do I need to report the firefox thingie ?
<charlie-tca> or what failed
<charlie-tca> no, it is already reported as a bug
<charlie-tca> I can kick monday about it not being in the image yet
<drc> OK, then...All Systems Go. 64-Live-Short passed.
<charlie-tca> Great!
<charlie-tca> When I go away today, I won't be back until Oneiric is installed
<charlie-tca> running resize test
<charlie-tca> Install for 64bit desktop cd does not work from the desktop
<charlie-tca> It can only be run from the cd menu itself. It does a logout after partitioning during the live desktop install
<charlie-tca> (and, you can not log back in, since the only known user in GDM is "other"
<charlie-tca> VirtualBox installation, not tried hardware
<drc> huh, did not try from Desktop, did the LiveCD test and then away to do something and came back rebooted and installed from the menu.
<drc> charlie-tca:  When I send the mail to the ML, I'll note that menu install...you going to note the Desktop problem?
<charlie-tca> no, I am the one the reports go to
<drc> Well, report yourself ;)
<charlie-tca> report myself to myself?
<drc> and make sure you don't play favorites
<charlie-tca> I will try not to
<Unit193> I still have the 32LiveCD?
<drc> Unit193: Yup
<Unit193> Sweet. Heh, it's 800M
<drc> The 64Live coud not install from the Desktop icon (according the charlie-tca, I didn't try ot), so you may have to do the LiveCD test and then re-boot to install from the initial men.
<drc> menu,,sheesh...fngers are tired today
<charlie-tca> Unit193: usb drive or VBox, either one should work
<charlie-tca> hm, looking at the build logs, I think 32bit should from the live desktop, but 64bit will have issues.
<charlie-tca> Well, I have to go install Oneiric now. Back later, when it is working ;-)
<drc> in October?
 * astraljava hi^5s drc
<astraljava> err... that's rather redundant
<astraljava> ^5s
<Unit193> drc AND charlie-tca are gone...
<Unit193> drc: Great! You're back!
#xubuntu-devel 2011-06-05
<Unit193> drc: http://pastebin.com/6T2SK0rX
<drc> Sorry, I forgot to make the icon blink on a message :(
<Unit193> You still got the msg :)
<drc> charlie-tca isn't around to run them by right now, so I'd just place that in an email to the ML (did you see mine from ealier this morning?)
<drc> The reports go to charlie-tca anyway, so that way he'll have from the mail list instead of here (they want a daily test report to the ML anyway, according to the testing page
<Unit193> Those are just notes...
<Unit193> about:startpage worked for me...
<Unit193> Desktop icon also worked
<drc> Differences between 32 and 64 :)
<Unit193> Just paste that into an email?
<drc> I would, I ask cgarlie-tca if they had a template, he said no, they just wanted to know what was wrong.  I'd cut-n-paste and mail it.
<drc> If he wants something different he can tell us :)
<Unit193> I'll do that in just under an hour (I'm only on a TTY right now...)
<drc> OK
<NewUbuntuUser> Hello
<NewUbuntuUser> Anybody here?
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<charlie-tca> so, this is Oneiric
<astraljava> Morning charlie-tca, sounds great! :)
<Unit193> charlie-tca: My email didn't seem to go out to the list (The one with the testing notes) If you are admin, you can just read it
<charlie-tca> Will push it through
<charlie-tca> Are you subscribed to the list?
<Unit193> Yeah, but I don't think from that email addy
<Unit193> Does the email make sense?
<charlie-tca> Takes me a while to get there. 
<charlie-tca> I don't quite have things working yet in Oneiric
<Unit193> That will be fun ;)
<charlie-tca> Oh, by the way, I have to restart to get to the emails, first. I will push it through later today
<charlie-tca> cody-somerville: you are right. It is *much* different trying to use the hidden panel
<charlie-tca> My screen seems to go down forever now
<Unit193> The same panel in 11.04?
<charlie-tca> yes
<charlie-tca> I had mine changed a lot, and now have the default panels
<charlie-tca> Well, more or less. I removed workspace plugin, to try the middle click button
<Unit193> You think LightDM will come with A2?
<charlie-tca> micahg: any estimate on lightDM?
<charlie-tca> Unit193: you testing the daily today?
<Unit193> charlie-tca: I should have the time! I have Alt32, correct?
<charlie-tca> You're asking me? That sounds right
<charlie-tca> I can't make the browser work right either yet
<charlie-tca> Unit193: I need you to try adding a user when testing today
<Unit193> I guess that will work...
<charlie-tca> Unit193: system -> User and Groups, add user
 * charlie-tca tried to add a user here using a 64bit install. It fails to start
<Unit193> Yep. Did you get where it thinks the hostname is already on the network?
<charlie-tca> no
<Unit193> (Boodle-VirtualBox is not already on my network ;) )
<charlie-tca> I can't make that work either yet
<knome> No_GridCube, if possible, can you try to avoid awaynicks?
<No_GridCube> sure :)
<No_GridCube> sorry
<knome> thanks, and no problem
<GridCube> was just some jocking whit other channle people :P
<knome> heh, okay ;)
<knome> more meaning in #xubuntu, we try to avoid any extra lines of text/unnecessary info
<GridCube> :) ok
<unit193Testing> Why isn't charlie-tca here when you need him...
<micahg> he should be back for hte meeting in 1.5 hours
<micahg> I might be a few minutes late to the meeting
<beardygnome> hi
<beardygnome> is this the right place for the xubuntu meeting?
<DarkEra> yes it is
<beardygnome> have we started?
<DarkEra> not yet
<DarkEra> charlie-tca is missing, hope he didn't forget it
<beardygnome> ok
 * micahg is here :)
<beardygnome> no news from charlie?
<DarkEra> he didn't log in yet and didn't see any mail that the meeting would be canceled. Maybe somebody else here has some news from charlie-tca?
<micahg> he was around ~8 hrs ago
<astraljava> He was in here in the morning (his time).
<astraljava> Maybe some connectivity problems?
<DarkEra> could be possible
<micahg> how many people are here for the meeting?
<astraljava> Could someone else run the meeting instead? micahg?
 * micahg is considering it
<pleia2> knome: demo wordpress site is up \o/ and you have email
<beardygnome> micahg: i am
<micahg> mr_pouit: are you around?
 * GridCube is here for the meeting
<micahg> well, we're missing 2 team leads, but I guess this is enough for the meeting
<micahg> pleia2: would you like to chair?
<pleia2> oh no thank you
 * pleia2 is being pulled in a few directions at the moment :)
<micahg> cody-somerville: are you around?
<micahg> we'll wait one minute to see if drc comes back, then I'll start
<micahg> ok, let's start, the agenda is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<micahg> Old business - all
<micahg>     knome is to set up a tele-conference of some type to discuss marketing - carried forward 
<micahg> knome: any updates ^^
<micahg> ok, moving on
<micahg> Team updates - Team LeadsPackaging & Development 
<micahg> mr_pouit: ?
 * micahg hopes he's still connected...
<pleia2> :)
<micahg> ok, so, congratulations to all, we released alpha 1!
<micahg> we're looking to swap out gdm with lightdm in the near future, I will coordinate that with mr_pouit 
<pleia2> great
<micahg> from the ML, it looks like we're going to add pavucontrol and pastebinit to the install, but not the live environment
<GridCube> ok gotta go
<micahg> actually, pavucontrol might be in the live environment
<GridCube> :( sad no meeting was met
<pleia2> er
<micahg> charlie-tca was also interested in adding midori as well as a second browser to give it some wider testing, we'll have to see if there's space available for that
<micahg> I think that's it for development...
<micahg> Bug Triage & Testing
<micahg>     Daily testing versus milestone testing 
<micahg> does anyone have any information on this ^^
<micahg> ok, well I'd like to thank all the testers of alpha 1
<micahg> beardygnome: astraljava are you still around?
<beardygnome> i'm here
<astraljava> still here :)
<micahg> k :)
<beardygnome> i'm not able to do any testing at the moment as we've just moved house and don't have broadband installed yet
<micahg> beardygnome: k
<micahg> Website & Marketing 
<beardygnome> having to use my android phone's 3g for this meeting
<micahg> pleia2: any updates?
<pleia2> yep, on the website side I just got a test install of wordpress up on a site where knome and I have ssh access
<pleia2> so we should be able to start theme development this week :)
<micahg> cool
<pleia2> on list I also proposed a "promote xubuntu" section of our site where we can link to our logos and stuff for people who want to put xubuntu banners on their blogs/sites/etc
<pleia2> for marketing
<micahg> that sounds like a good idea
<pleia2> that's it for me :)
<micahg> thank you pleia2 
 * astraljava makes a mental note of joining the mailing lists. :D
<micahg> Artwork 
<micahg> ochosi: or knome ^^
 * micahg guesses it's too late wherever they are
<micahg> moving on,     Documentation 
<micahg> beardygnome, you're up
<beardygnome> i am?
 * micahg thought you did docs
<micahg> sorry, if I'm wrong :)
<beardygnome> i did some work reviewing the last doc update
<micahg> well, if you have anything to note, I think you're the most involved individual present :)
<beardygnome> but that was work that someone else had done
<beardygnome> ok :-)
<beardygnome> nothing from me
<micahg> beardygnome: k, thanks :)
<micahg> Any Other Business - all/anyone 
<astraljava> Just a side not, coming from Ubuntu Studio world, I'm interested where this derivate is going.
<micahg> astraljava: to infinity and beyond!
<astraljava> So will likely pay more attention to xubuntu from now on.
<astraljava> If possibly, contribute as well.
<astraljava> possible*
<pleia2> great :)
<micahg> astraljava: cool, there are lots of different ways to contribute
<astraljava> micahg: Yeah. Testing first, but hopefully filling in where there's a chance.
<micahg> astraljava: testing is a great way to help
#xubuntu-devel 2012-05-28
<ochosi> micahg: ping
<ochosi> micahg: are you in touch with debian's maintainer of gmusicbrowser?
<ochosi> micahg: the gmb-dev just told me he wants to drop/change some dependencies
<ochosi> bbl
#xubuntu-devel 2012-05-29
<micahg> ochosi: will look at scrollback
<ochosi> micahg: hey, so a quick summary of the proposed changes for gmb in debian/ubuntu:
<ochosi> 1) remove mpg321/ogg123/flac123 from depends
<ochosi> 2) move libgstreamer-perl from recommends to depends
<ochosi> 3) add libintl-perl to recommends (or depends)
<ochosi> (mpg321 recommands libaudio-scrobbler-perl which depends on  libwww-perl which depends on lots of perl libraries that are  not used by gmb)
<ochosi> micahg: ^
<micahg> all sounds fine
<ochosi> micahg: ok cool, would you forward that?
<micahg> forward where?
<ochosi> to the debian maintainer
<ochosi> or wait, are you the debian maintainer? :)
<micahg> alessio's been making the changes as of late and I still don't have a key in alioth
<ochosi> ok, are you in touch with him or shall i try to get a hold of him?
<micahg> you can probably reach him in #debian-multimedia on oftc
<ochosi> ok, thanks, i'll try that
<ochosi> micahg: his nick is simply alessio?
<micahg> yeah
<ochosi> ok, thanks, i'll try to hang in there :)
<ochosi> are you very busy atm? i have a xubuntu packaging question
 * micahg isn't feeling well and about to go to bed
<ochosi> oh, in that case it can wait
<ochosi> get well again soon!
<astraljava> ochosi: The changes for gmb are done.
<ochosi> astraljava: you mean in debian?
<astraljava> Yup.
<ochosi> alessio was kind enough to send me an email about it :)
<astraljava> He rawks.
<ochosi> but thanks :)
<ochosi> astraljava: do you feel like coding a bit?
<astraljava> Later this evening, sure. I'm on support duty at work, so can't do it until I get spare time.
<ochosi> sure, no hurry
<astraljava> What did you have in mind?
<ochosi> i was just generally thinking about the video-player for xubuntu roadmap item again...
<astraljava> Ok.
<ochosi> and i'm afraid that audience will not be a perfect choice due to the clutter-dependency
<ochosi> it's not very smooth on all computers
<ochosi> and i'm not sure we really want that
<ochosi> so there are several courses of action
<astraljava> Right, I have no experience but I'll take your word on it.
<ochosi> well, even with my nvidia card i didn't have a 100% smooth experience
<ochosi> so i don't even wanna think about people without dedicated graphics
<astraljava> Sounds sub-optimal.
<ochosi> one course of action is to improve parole
<ochosi> it's not _that_ bad, but it desperately needs an interface-refresh
<ochosi> or we can look for alternatives
<ochosi> no clue whether this would be interesting for u-studio guys as well
<astraljava> Totem has been there, I believe, but we could talk. I just use vlc.
<ochosi> vlc is not an option due to qt
<astraljava> I know, and will not try to get it as a default app.
<ochosi> and totem, well, i haven't looked at the dependencies yet
<astraljava> But it's something I always install, along with chrome, vim and t-bird. :)
<ochosi> mhm
<ochosi> yeah, vlc is maybe the best media player out there
<astraljava> I'm afraid totem is not very fitting for us.
<astraljava> But yeah, who knows.
<ochosi> yeah, personally i'd rather not use totem...
<ochosi> problem with refreshing parole is that its code uses an ancient version of glade
<ochosi> i'm not proficient in these things, but it might even be that a rewrite is better :/
<astraljava> Probably. I've used glade a small eternity ago. :)
<ochosi> so anyway, i don't know what would be more work. what i somehow would prefer would be a tiny, yet functional player in gtk3/vala
<ochosi> or c
<astraljava> Well I wouldn't write another player myself, but I'm willing to enhance an existing one that we'd choose to promote.
<astraljava> There's already way too much "from scratch" mentality in the linux community. :)
<ochosi> yeah, i agree
<ochosi> i mean porting parole would be just as good :)
<Unit193> And a lot of forking...
<ochosi> i already made several mockups for how i would simplify its UI
<laite> how do you feel about some mplayer-interfaces? e.g. gnome-mplayer
<astraljava> ochosi: I could go with that, sounds good if you have existing plans already.
<ochosi> astraljava: yes, it's not that i dislike parole, i actually use it every now and then.
<ochosi> laite: haven't really used them yet
<ochosi> laite: i'm wondering though why it _depends_ on ligpod
<laite> personally I use mainly smplayer, due to it's ability to search subtitles (with good success rate) straight from program
<laite> it's qt-based
<Unit193> qt was part of the reason to cut out VLC.
<knome> Qt is not happening, really
<ochosi> astraljava: this is/was the plan: http://wiki.xfce.org/design/parole-ui
<ochosi> astraljava: there were also actual mockups of parole's UI, not just the textual description
<knome> "were"?
<ochosi> well, they're not in the xfce wiki for some reason, although i thought they were there
<knome> :|
<ochosi> so maybe they got removed or something
<ochosi> i dunno
<ochosi> i should still have them at home
<ochosi> and i still know what i had in mind, so no biggy
<knome> heh
<laite> is there no option for having subtitles in parole?
<laite> doesn't matter for me so much, but might be an issue to some
<ochosi> yeah, it's not 100% feature-complete
<ochosi> bbl
<astraljava> ochosi: Thanks, I'll ask for the mock-ups when I get to actual implementation phase.
<bluesabre-laptop> astraljava:  I look forward to testing that!  Especially if you get subtitle support working'
<ochosi> astraljava: cool, i'll take a quick look whether i can find the mockup/s
<ochosi> astraljava: ok, uploaded one of the mockups to the xfce design wiki page: https://wiki.xfce.org/design/parole-ui
<laite> that looks really nice =)
<ochosi> thanks
<ochosi> it's just a cleanup, nothing special ;)
<knome> the xubuntu blueprints are being handled by skaet right now
<knome> mr_pouit, ^
<mr_pouit> yep, my mailbox agrees :P
<mr_pouit> thanks ;-)
<knome> np
 * knome just added a lot of work items for the blueprints, please add more if you think something obvious is missing (if you are unsure of the assignee, set a team, like xubuntu-art, as the assignee, or if you are still unsure, set xubuntu-team)
<knome> madnick, what's the status of the lightdm settings gui?
<madnick> knome: hm, the gui exists, some functionality exists, but iirc its rather incomplete in terms of config getting
<knome> madnick, do you think it's realistic to get that done for q?
<knome> madnick, i mean, should i just repostpone, or should we try?
<madnick> its probably the easiest thing to do (if they have not changed it entirely)
<madnick> of all the things
<knome> madnick, also, look at the "new plymouth/lightdm theme" -blueprints
<knome> and add any items you see fit
<knome> or that you need from others
<knome> okay, then let's keep the work items for now
<madnick> will do
<knome> thanks
<madnick> who will provide art btw?
<madnick> ochosi?
<knome> i added xubuntu-art for that
<knome> so ochosi or me probably
<madnick> okay
<knome> you can use the xubuntu-art team for artwork stuff where you are unsure
<madnick> You (i think) was talking about just modifying the ubuntu greeter?
<madnick> unity greeter*
<knome> umm, i was talking about maintaining that in addition ;]
<madnick> hehe
<knome> i think it was ochosi if you have talked about just modifying that
<madnick> ah okay
<knome> but that's not the most important thing
<knome> we can sort that out later
<knome> we need to get the work items in shape for thursday
<knome> so we are able to track progess more meaningfully
<knome> plus, that's the feature definition freeze day
<knome> ;)
<knome> i don't think we will be completely done, but it's good to at least try
<knome> (that's why i'm on the blueprints/work items now!)
<madnick> you know the greeter theme for 8.04?
<madnick> I sorta like the simplicity of that
<knome> http://www.screenshots-archive.com/files/images/02_logon_screen_0.png that?
<knome> or are you maybe referring to http://www.generation-linux.fr/public/avr09/gdm_xubuntu.png ?
<knome> i'd love something like the latter (again) !
<knome> [knome] take more nature-photograps: TODO
<knome> ;)
<madnick> i was talking about the first one, but the second one is even better in simplicity (if one centers that menu)
<knome> i'm running out
<madnick> top menu
<knome> i don't think anything should be necessarily centered
<knome> but we can look at that :)
<madnick> hehe
<madnick> i have tons of pictures i took when i was flying helicopter up in the mountains up north
<madnick> but they are poor quality, good res tho, if one manipulated them, it might look good
<madnick> think 12mp camera
<knome> madnick, bad quality doesn't matter really
<knome> madnick, i can give you an example later today
<knome> bbl
<sadin> knome Fedora17 just pushed out!
<sadin> im upgrading then getting back to work on the icons for you :D
<knome> sadin, congrats
<knome> micahg, ?
#xubuntu-devel 2012-05-30
<ochosi> morning everyone
<ochosi> bluesabre, bluesabre-laptop : should we maybe tweak the application-filter to only show binaries and .desktop files instead of archives and isos etc. as well?
<knome> woohoo! http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-quantal/group/topic-quantal-flavor-xubuntu.html works!
<knome> looks like we have more items this time!
<knome> or, we have just prepared better
<astraljava> Do we also have more assignees? ;)
<knome> 03:56  micahg: knome: in the blueprint for my assignment, please use [xubuntu-dev] (micahg)
<knome> that! ^
<knome> we don't want your US stuff :P
<astraljava> meh
<astraljava> It seems anyway that I'm going to be more active on Xubuntu than Studio this cycle.
<knome> heh.
<knome> :)
<knome> crawlerz, any reason for two nicks?
<knome> astraljava, i'm really waiting for friday so we can get some QA stuff done!
<knome> unless we eat, drink and then are too tired to do anything else than play ps3 :D
<astraljava> It might happen, but let's give it a try, still. :)
<laite> one idea that came to mind: it would be really nice if 'appearance'-dialog showed when selected theme doesn't have gtk3-configs
<laite> perhaps with a link to 'why are some of my applications so ugly'-topic in wiki =)
<knome> laite, the wiki should be used for developer communication only, for user-communication the website is better
<laite> knome: yeah, I didn't really mean any specific wiki, just some page (perhaps ubuntu-wiki) that would explain that FAQ ^
<laite> but should these kind of things be done in upstream, not with xubuntu itself?
<laite> as in: how strictly xubuntu sticks to upstream with things like this
#xubuntu-devel 2012-05-31
<pjotr> Hello, in my opinion the number of icons on the default Xubuntu desktop, is rather excessive. How about reducing that number a bit?
<pjotr> Removing the "removable devices" icons has some technical disadvantages, so maybe they better stay. The trash can icon is also useful on the desktop, I think. But perhaps the shortcuts for "Home" and "File System" can be disabled in the default settings?
<pjotr> shortcuts = icons
<laite> heh, home & filesystem are the only ones I keep on my desktop =P
<baizon> i got Home, file system, trash and 2 shortcut :)
<ochosi> the number of items on the default desktop seems to be a really interesting issue to some...
<ochosi> somehow it pops up every now and then
<ochosi> maybe xubuntu is too good already, because people keep whining on such a high level :}
<astraljava> Indeed. Let's break it horribly for quantal, so people will have some real topics to discuss. *smirk*
<ochosi> :)
<GridCube> knome, im lost, what else im supposed to do on the wiki comparizon?
<ochosi> GridCube: what i'd expect from the comparison is something like this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Karmic/DefaultMusicPlayer
<ochosi> or this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Karmic/DefaultMailClient
<ochosi> GridCube: if you're thinking "yuck, this looks like a lot of work", then yes, i can confirm that :) (that's why there haven't been tons of real application comparisons)
<GridCube> :)
<GridCube> ok
<GridCube> welp, most of that can be copypasted :D
<knome> GridCube, don't
<knome> GridCube, please, you need to go through it yourself to be able to actually give a objective proposal
<knome> *an
<knome> and things are probably also better
<ochosi> also, if everything gets copypasted only, we'll end up with exaile again :)
<knome> hehe
<GridCube> well no i meant the part about use cases, thats pretty much the same
<knome> GridCube, i'd still say; please go through it yourself
<GridCube> knome, i am
<knome> GridCube, by all means use the old spec as a reference
<knome> GridCube, but don't copy-paste
<knome> it *is* hard work, especially if you want to stay objectibe
<knome> s/b/v/
<GridCube> it just i dont feel like any of the work will actually matter because it feels like it has been decided that "i just dont like it"
<ochosi> in fact there are a few things i prefer structurally in the mailclient comparison, that's why i linked it as well
<knome> GridCube, to me, it looks like you have decided that you don't like gmb, and that's why you don't want to propose that as default
<ochosi> GridCube: that is fine as well, then we'll most likely stick to gmusicbrowser (there haven't really been many public complaints)
<knome> GridCube, don't let prejudice get you :)
<knome> GridCube, that's too easy - anbody can do that with *no* work
<ochosi> well in fact there's also the option to compile a list of proposed changes to gmusicbrowser. much can be dealt with at the layout-level
<ochosi> knome: which reminds me: click the search-icon > advanced search (that is in fact "create filter from search")
<knome> GridCube, ^ and we're actually working on making our layout more intuitive (there's even a blueprint for that)
<knome> (a shimmer project blueprint)
<knome> anyway, i got to go
<knome> i'll be back later today
<knome> see you!
<ochosi> seeya
<GridCube> ochosi, in order to do a comparison like the one in the mail client i would need to reduce the amount of option to 2 or 3
<ochosi> GridCube: yes, i think you can try to rule out a few anyway
<GridCube> mmhm yes
<ochosi> no need to compare _all_ of them :)
<GridCube> but the thing is, there are music players, like audacious or like decibel, that "just play music", no default media library or anything, so what should i do then?
<ochosi> well i guess that's a big decision, should it be library-capable or not
<GridCube> rule them out? compare only media players that have music libraries?
<GridCube> because if we do that then we can simply tell people to use parole to play music
<ochosi> well ideally the music player would have both
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> parole is actually ok on the simple-playlist level
<ochosi> it's far from perfect
<GridCube> and have only one media player
<GridCube> yes
<ochosi> but maybe astraljava can help improve it a bit
<ochosi> personally i think it's good to have a separate music player
<ochosi> simply it's a very common usecase
<ochosi> *because
<GridCube> :/ well
<bluesabre> I feel like a lot of the lightweight, Xfce-recommended players suffer from being ugly.  http://wiki.xfce.org/recommendedapps#multimediaplayback
<bluesabre> Can we not have pretty and resource-friendly?  :)
<ochosi> i think in this case something like beatbox would be an option
<ochosi> but i have no clue how stable it is atm
<bluesabre> Haven't used it in a while.
<ochosi> me neither
<bluesabre> Don't really have any music on this computer, but it handles podcasts well so far =)
<astraljava> ochosi: Talking about parole?
<ochosi> astraljava: yeah. GridCube and me were talking about what the default music player should be able to do in xubuntu
<ochosi> and the basic playback/list thing is already covered by parole
<ochosi> so i argued that library-management wouldn't a bad basic feature
<astraljava> ochosi: Right on. I'm still at my bro's, I thought I'd end up at home earlier than yesterday... but he had beer. *smirk*
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> lucky you
<astraljava> So can't start working on it tonight either. :D
<ochosi> neither do i have a bro, nor do i have beer at home :'(
<astraljava> Tomorrow I'm talking rubbi^WQA stuff with gnome.
<ochosi> ah right
<ochosi> you mean in person?
<astraljava> Yep. They're cooking indian-style tortillas. :)
<ochosi> gah, you lucky bastard!
<astraljava> *smirk*
<ochosi> i can't help myself, this looks pretty fantastic imo: http://0rax0.deviantart.com/art/GNOME-Shell-eOS-262479724
<ochosi> i mean the whole color-scheme seems pretty balanced
<ochosi> very bright though, no sure how it would be in everyday use
<bluesabre> too much white
<ochosi> probably
<ochosi> thing is: this is just a shell-theme
<bluesabre> true
<ochosi> so no idea what the gtk theme should look like
<bluesabre> Not going to see that white very often
<ochosi> probably greybird would work well with it
<ochosi> i'm sometimes thinking about making greybird's menus white
<ochosi> mainly because it's easier to read
<astraljava> Well it looks really cool to me as well.
<ochosi> I'd love to make the xfce headers look like the "Home Applications System" towards the lower end of the screenshot-composition
<ochosi> astraljava: just pushed a new branch to greybird with bright menus, happy testing!
<astraljava> ochosi: Don't know when I get my xubuntu machine up and running, but thanks! :)
<ochosi> astraljava: test it tomorrow @knome ;)
<knome> astraljava, tomorrow at ours maybe. :)
<astraljava> Sure.
<knome> astraljava, http://typewith.me/p/xubuntu-qa-20120601
<ochosi> knome, astraljava: selected-panel-item with bright menu: http://imagebin.org/214665
<ochosi> the hover-effect on indicators and window-buttons is the same blue color btw
<knome> ochosi, we need to add software-properties-gtk to settings manager
<ochosi> knome: well, feel free to start a blueprint or bugreport so we can add items to that list
<ochosi> there are so many more...
<knome> Unit193, ^
<ochosi> (jockey, ...)
<knome> Unit193, want to help? :)
<Unit193> <knome> that's something to add to the settings manager btw   <--- I thought, alright, I've done it a few times, I know how to now. :D
<Unit193> knome: Yes I do.
<knome> Unit193, would you like to gather a list of things we want to add to settings manager?
<knome> Unit193, or even, list of things we *could* add to the settings manager
<knome> Unit193, because yeah, it's rather easy to cherry-pick from those then :)
<knome> it's really useful to have all the xubuntu wiki pages in history ;)
<knome> Unit193, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Quantal/SettingsManagerApps
<knome> since our *current* strategy document doesn't talk about blueprints...
<knome> i'm going to just escalate this to "approved" and create a blueprint for it.
<ochosi> good
<Unit193> Running debsums now to figure out what I already edited. :P
<knome> ;)
<knome> i mean, even with the new proposed SD, it would only mean i'd need to ask lionel first.. :P
<Unit193> language-selector.desktop, jockey-gtk.desktop, time.desktop, users.desktop, alacarte.desktop, ubuntuone-installer.desktop(?)
<Unit193> zenmap, but that's unrelated. :P
<ochosi> Unit193: configure wine?
<knome> Unit193, feel free to add any - i think "installers" don't really belong in settings manager, but at this point every idea is welcome
<Unit193> ochosi: This is a list of things I've *already* changed.
<ochosi> ah
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> (and there's the pulseaudio-stuff, pavucontrol and the equalizer)
<Unit193> knome: Run  ubuntuone-installer
<knome> Unit193, NOOOOOO
<knome> ;)
<Unit193> Poorly named.
<Unit193> It's installed, that's the config.
<knome> mm-hhm
<ochosi> afaik the config will be qt-only in 12.10 :(
<ochosi> or wait, is it already in 12.04?
<Unit193> Well that's annoying for anything other than KDE, but as I require VLC, no problem.
<knome> Unit193, there's now some stuff you should be aware of:
<Unit193> !info ubuntuone-control-panel-gtk quantal
<ubottu> ubuntuone-control-panel-gtk (source: ubuntuone-control-panel): Ubuntu One Control Panel - transitional dummy package. In component universe, is extra. Version 3.0.0-0ubuntu1 (quantal), package size 1 kB, installed size 35 kB
<knome> Unit193, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Goals/Quantal  lists you as the assignee (along with 'community') for this blueprint
<knome> Unit193, it also has a link to the spec: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Quantal/SettingsManagerApps (add any apps you think are worth adding here)
<ochosi> !info ubuntu-one-control-panel-gtk precise
<ubottu> Package ubuntu-one-control-panel-gtk does not exist in precise
<knome> Unit193, and the blueprint itself is at: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-q-xubuntu-settings-manager-launchers
<ochosi> !info ubuntuone-control-panel-gtk precise
<ubottu> ubuntuone-control-panel-gtk (source: ubuntuone-control-panel): Ubuntu One Control Panel - transitional dummy package. In component universe, is extra. Version 3.0.0-0ubuntu1 (precise), package size 1 kB, installed size 35 kB
<Unit193> Depends: ubuntuone-control-panel-qt
<knome> Unit193, there shouldn't be much more work items for the blueprint, but if there is, you can add them like the following example:
<knome> Unit193, [launchpad-nick] What to do: STATUS
<Unit193> Yep, seen the style, thanks.
<knome> Unit193, ok, good
<knome> Unit193, but as i said, there shouldn't be many surprises. :)
<Unit193> (I read all the -team mail that comes in)
<knome> Unit193, i'll try to get that blueprint approved for Q as soon as possible, so it shows up on status.ubuntu.com too
#xubuntu-devel 2012-06-01
<knome> pleia2, hai
<pleia2> hello knome 
<knome> pleia2, what do you think of a xubuntu users group in linkedin?
<knome> pleia2, there is already a group, and the creator asked if he could make it "official"
<pleia2> if we have someone with linkedin-fu to run it, I think it'd be fine
<pleia2> oh great
<knome> but...
<knome> meh, isn't linkedin for some kind of work-networking stuff
<knome> who cares if you *use* xubuntu?
<pleia2> I used to run one for the philly lug, but I was really bad at it (I don't log on often and they don't send many email alerts)
<pleia2> there is an ubuntu users one, and one for ubuntu members
<knome> actually, now the group says "official", but has the old logo too
<knome> i'd be more comfortable if somebody from the team was (also) an administrator, like in g+
<pleia2> yeah
 * knome is not on linkedin, and not joining because of this
<pleia2> I can do it if you want, I at least know how
<knome> okay, that would be much appreciated
 * Unit193 is not on linkedin, and not joining
 * pleia2 joins
<knome> pleia2, can you be in contact with the admin, and work that out?
<pleia2> knome: how did they ask?
<knome> pleia2, sec
<knome> pleia2, that : https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2011-September/007970.html
<pleia2> oh, gosh
<knome> i know it's way too long since it's sent but...
<knome> :|
<pleia2> thanks, I'll follow-up
<knome> pleia2, ok, thanks
<knome> pleia2, if you need help with new logos and so, just send me email with the dimensions you need
<pleia2> ok :)
<knome> trying to get the mail folders empty and everything documented as work items or just done...
<pleia2> you rock <3
 * knome blushes
<knome> thanks ;)
<knome> i'm wondering if there is a way to make the "in the press" -subpages look better
<knome> there aren't so many things there anyway
<knome> i'm wondering if it was the newest release on the "main page" and the rest in "archive"
<pleia2> we did play with that idea
<knome> most of the subpages have like 4 items
<knome> http://www.webupd8.org/2011/02/gmusicbrowser-to-replace-exaile-in.html <- also, not sure how much sense it makes to archive things like this
<knome> especially from both OMG!U! and webupd8
<pleia2> it's history, I like it :)
<ochosi> :)
<knome> so, should i combine the old releases to one page?
<knome> i could do that now
<pleia2> I dunno
<knome> http://xubuntu.org/press/lucid/
<knome> that's sad :(
<ochosi> but also a long time ago...
<pleia2> maybe if we also clean up empty "screenshots" and "screencasts" section
<pleia2> s
<knome> pleia2, of course.
<knome> pleia2, i was thinking of just adding one header per release
<knome> (just the release name)
<ochosi> http://www.google.at/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CFQQtwIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Do7bYs3BN85g&ei=-A3IT5bqF-zT4QTu-YAg&usg=AFQjCNGMCaOqiYXThM_-s4FRPke99c9FVQ
<ochosi> sry for that
<ochosi> gah
<knome> heh. :)
<pleia2> knome: like "10.04" ?
<ochosi> you could add this screencast: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7bYs3BN85g
<knome> pleia2, or "10.04 Lucid Lynx", whichever
<pleia2> yeah, 10.04 (Lucid Lynx) is good
<knome> k
<pleia2> Xubuntu certainly is redundant :)
 * knome goes working
<pleia2> ochosi: ah, good!
<pleia2> knome: ^^ add that one
<pleia2> for lucid
<ochosi> pleia2: and part 2 of the same screencast: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85ElbqlGex0
<knome> pleia2, ochosi, will do
<ochosi> should we also add this review? :) http://gvxdev.wordpress.com/2010/03/24/xubuntu-lucid-is-disappointing/
<knome> lol
<ochosi> screenshot tour: http://www.webupd8.org/2010/03/xubuntu-1004-lucid-beta-1-screenshots.html
<ochosi> guys, have you even googled before adding the /press pages? :D
<knome> ochosi, no.
<ochosi> guys _and_ gals, sry
<knome> ochosi, that's just migrated from the old website
<pleia2> I wasn't around during lucid :P
<knome> i'm sure there is loads of pages around the web
<pleia2> that "disappointing" review doesn't seem to understand what LTSs are about
<knome> the thing why i pasted the wepupd8 link...
<ochosi> another video-review: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLDnsDftzMg
<knome> is that i don't think we should serve a "google results" page :P
<ochosi> and another one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LnitFybRL0
<knome> just gather some meaningful and insightful (even if negative) reviews
<ochosi> of old releases??
<ochosi> :}
<knome> ochosi, of any releases
<knome> ochosi, i suppose something like 4-5 articles *is* actually quite fine
<knome> ochosi, http://hurr-durr.com/
<knome> ochosi, that's for you
<knome> that's the best review ever.
<pleia2> hah
<knome> pleia2, see my point with only linking to a few high-class articles?
<Unit193> Ahahaha! Loves it:D :D :D
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> there's probably a few things we could drop from the current list, but
<knome> let's see
<pleia2> but I don't think we exclude the more tabloidy ones out of hand, some of their articles aren't horrible :)
<knome> yup. but just telling the news isn't something i think we should make people go through on archives ;)
<ochosi> knome: did you just want to rickroll/hurrdurr me? :p
<ochosi> btw, for 9.10: http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/xubuntu-9-10.html
<knome> ochosi, no, i think; BLEH.
<knome> :D
<pleia2> knome: fair enough
<ochosi> anyway, g2g to sleep
<ochosi> night everyone!
<knome> ochosi, night!
<knome> pleia2, i'll combine the pages first, then if i'm not too tired, quickly check the lists for babble ;)
<pleia2> ok :)
<knome> eg for hardy, there are two reviews from the same site; pre and final
<pleia2> if they have differing content I don't think that's bad
<knome> have to see :)
 * knome cleans up some dead links too :/
<knome> http://xubuntu.org/press/archive/
<drc> While perusing the press section, I noticed that http://xubuntu.org/press/precise/ did not have http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/xubuntu-pangolin.html
<pleia2> knome: ok
<knome> drc, it did today when i checkeed
<pleia2> yeah, I checked when someone sent a mail to the list about it
<drc> dud
<drc> It does.
<pleia2> yeah, it does
 * drc need to up the font size again :(
<pleia2> looks like I added it when Unit193 mentioned it in -offtopic on May 17
<drc> Eyes are too tired to see what is clearly there...time for bed
<pleia2> :)
<pleia2> good night
<knome> pleia2, http://xubuntu.org/press/,
<knome> -,
<pleia2> knome: hey, looks good!
<knome> yeah!
<knome> the "Articles about..." header could be more imaginative
<knome> like "What are they saying about us?" or sth
<knome> doesn't need to say 12.04 at this point
<knome> actually, refresh
<pleia2> that's good
<GridCube> page , not found
<GridCube> :P
<pleia2> bah, that qa pad isn't loading
<Unit193> http://typewith.me/p/xubuntu-qa-20120601 ?  Not really working here either.
<pleia2> yeah
<Unit193> Secondary browser also fails.
<Unit193> Is there a chance that "Midweight" can be put on the website to clearify a little?
<Unit193> pleia2: See above when yous get backs?
<pleia2> maybe
<knome> pleia2, Unit193; weird (pad not working)
<knome> works fine for me
<knome> but generally, no need for it to work for you ;)
<Unit193> Now it's working.
<knome> it's just a todo list for me and astraljava 
<knome> oh bleh, invoies
<knome> +c
<knome> ;)
 * knome pays
<knome> it's thee internet
<knome> happy june
<ochosi> gtk3.6 will really be quite powerful in terms of native theming: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTYUn72Wjyk&feature=player_embedded
<ochosi> (or for those of you who prefer to read: http://blogs.gnome.org/cosimoc/2012/05/31/gtk-and-css-updates/ )
<knome> looks good, but i agree with the first commenter
<knome> i'm afraid many many people will create some really wacky stuff which then breaks and people are crying for help or thinking their pc is bricked or so
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> btw, i'm not so afraid of that, people are already doing whacky stuff with the pixmap engine...
<knome> ;)
<GridCube> ochosi, ping
<ochosi> GridCube: pong
<ochosi> (don't have much time though)
<GridCube> :| im stuck in the same place as yesterday
<ochosi> what place is that?
<GridCube> ihave to rule out some media players
<ochosi> right
<GridCube> wich ones should i pick to start the comparisons?
<ochosi> what's your current list?
<GridCube> listen, exaile, rhytmbox, quodlibet
<ochosi> rhythmbox is rather heavyweight
<ochosi> what's exaile's current status?
<GridCube> i ruled out audacious and decibel because the mediatheque abilities come from plugins and are not preseted
<ochosi> last time i checked it was utterly broken
<GridCube> i have no idea ochosi :/
<ochosi> what about beatbox instead?
<GridCube> !info beatbox
<ubottu> Package beatbox does not exist in precise
<GridCube> ^
<ochosi> you need to get it from a ppa atm
<ochosi> https://www.google.at/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CFYQFjAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Flaunchpad.net%2F~sgringwe%2F%2Barchive%2Fbeatbox&ei=PdLIT9DILseV-wbAu7Vg&usg=AFQjCNFU8ZwI1iGRkFPgoorDKBNnKI-IMw&cad=rja
<GridCube> its not in the repos so its not on my list, and no one told me about it before :/
<ochosi> gah
<ochosi> no problem
<ochosi> ppa:sgringwe/beatbox
<GridCube> ah, old google's incrediblelongurl.php
<drc> ochosi: how was/is exaile broken?
<ochosi> also there's xnoise
<GridCube> never heard of those 
<ochosi> sorry guys, i need to run now
<GridCube> :)
<GridCube> ok thanks you give me more to think
<GridCube> :P
<GridCube> drc i have no idea
<ochosi> GridCube: maybe good to do some more research on potential players ;) (clementine, guayadeque etc...)
<ochosi> see y'all
<GridCube> i did some
<GridCube> :)
<drc> Has the decision been made whether the team wants a player or a player/manager?
<GridCube> drc i have no idea, im doing what i think i should be doing, but for what i understand nothing will change
<GridCube> i dont understand this wiki :/
<drc> plus Ã§a change, plus c'est  la mÃªme chose:(
<GridCube> mmhm
<pleia2> linkedin group secured
<astraljava> Whee!
<knome> pleia2, hallo
<pleia2> hi knome 
<knome> pleia2, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/Short
<knome> pleia2, we updated that with astraljava 
<pleia2> great
<pleia2> shall we move to qa wiki?
<knome> pleia2, yeah, once we know what the structure is
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> so for Ubuntu: http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Install/DesktopPostInstallation
<pleia2> but I guess  /Short is a bit more than that
<knome> pleia2, those should be run too
#xubuntu-devel 2012-06-02
<tom_> Hello
<tom_> can someone please take a look at this bug report:
<tom_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/xfdesktop/+bug/1005087
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1005087 in xfdesktop "slow right click menu" [Undecided,New]
<tom_> xubuntu is *almost* perfect and I want it to be perfect :)
<ochosi> tom_: yeah, this bug is known unfortunately
<tom_> why not disable it by default until it's fixed?
<ochosi> i think it's fixed in 4.10, i'm currently looking for the upstream bugreport
<ochosi> (which means you can either test it by adding the xubuntu-dev ppa or wait for 12.10)
<ochosi> tom_: i'll quickly add the relevant info to your bugreport and close it
<ochosi> mr_pouit: have we cherry-picked and backported the fix for the right-click menu on xfdesktop yet? (bug #1005087)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1005087 in xfdesktop "slow right click menu" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1005087
<tom_> thanks ochosi
<ochosi> np
<tom_> would it be difficult to push an update that disables the app menu in the desktop menu?
<ochosi> i'd rather backport the fix
<ochosi> you can disable it for yourself quite easily in the desktop settings > menus
<tom_> ok thanks again  
<ochosi> that said, it doesn't really happen when you don't show icons on your desktop
<ochosi> so there are a few ways of potentially dealing with it
<tom_> I know, but many new to xubuntu users don't know that, or that it's causes slowness
<tom_> sorry about the grammar there
<ochosi> np :)
<ochosi> i'm neither a native speaker nor a language-fascist :)
<tom_> so I thought: wouldn't it be best for everyone (noobs specificaly) to have it disabled by default
<tom_> the experienced user can find the setting easily
<tom_> but not the other way around
<tom_> that's just my view
<ochosi> the thing is that it's already too late for that
<ochosi> 12.04 has been released
<ochosi> and now pushing a "fix" that disables that menu would mean changing the settings of _all_ users, which would most likely annoy more experienced users
<ochosi> (and it's definitely not an option)
<tom_> I understand
<tom_> thanks ochosi
<tom_> have a nice day
<ochosi> np, you too
<knome> oops!
<knome> i just realized that ~xubuntu-doc is a restricted team.
<mr_pouit> ochosi: already included
<ochosi> mr_pouit: ok, so probably it doesn't work
<ochosi> (i thought that it was included already anyway)
<pleia2> knome: since we encourage doc work upstream in xfce, do you know how they actually work to land in the shipped xubuntu-docs html files?
<pleia2> http://www.linkedin.com/groups/Announcement-from-Xubuntu-Users-4058113.S.120818219
<pleia2> :)
<knome> pleia2, great!
<knome> pleia2, so you are now an admin of that group?
<knome> pleia2, i'm not sure about all the doc stuff with xfce, we need to investigate that
<knome> pleia2, also, we need to think if we want to use mallard or something to create the files from
<knome> pleia2, but i'm asking people to join because actually rewriting the docs is the thing that is taking the most time/effort, and we can do that without knowing much
<knome> pleia2, the xfce docs are not very healthy either, so we could probably cooperate with them
<knome> pleia2, (i'd *love* if the xfce docs were in such good shape we could point users to that mainly!)
<pleia2> knome: yep, I'm an admin now on linkedin
<knome> good
<knome> i'm wondering if that should be linked from footer, or from "press"
<knome> or both
<pleia2> probably along with G+ and Twitter
<knome> done
<knome> btw
<knome> http://xubuntu.org/marketingresources/
<knome> see the note
<knome> same with http://xubuntu.org/press/
<knome> like the style, or have ideas to improve?
<knome> away for a while ->
<knome> pleia2, you happen to be around?
<pleia2> knome: just got home
<pleia2> what's up?
<knome> i'll pm
#xubuntu-devel 2012-06-03
<knome> mr_pouit, micahg: can you get back to me when you have some time to sit down (together or separately), we still need to look through the "development" pages on wiki/website; i'm supposing this is a fifteen-minute taks
<knome> after the call for people interested in documentation, 13 people have showed up
<hobgoblin> I was one :)
<hobgoblin> though you'd see me as Elfy 
<knome> 20 proposed members for ~xubuntu-doc
<knome> be back tomorrow, see you all
<GridCube> the link that comes up in !faq is wrong
#xubuntu-devel 2013-05-27
<ochosi> elfy: hey
<Noskcaj> elfy, i talked to the autopilot guys. apparently a lot of other F/OSS uses autopilot, so some might even still be usable by us.
<elfy> hi ochosi 
<elfy> Noskcaj: thanks - what got said would be useful to know, a lot of others might use it but as it stands it fails to even start here 
<ochosi> elfy: if you could re-test the greeter with greybird from git please
<ochosi> elfy: we just pushed some fixes
<elfy> ochosi: ok - I'll boot into the machine in a little while and look :)
<ochosi> elfy: thanks a lot!
<ochosi> elfy: oh, and what did you mean with "top right icons rounded"?
<elfy> it's a visual thing I guess - I know that they at the top - they just look really 'square' which they are anyway - perhaps it's the stark difference between the dark panel and the almost white icons
<ochosi> elfy: i think you were experiencing theming issues, they should look fine now...
<elfy> aah ok - well I'll update it and look shortly 
<ochosi> thanks!
<ochosi> elfy: i'll be back in a bit, gotta run off now
<elfy> ok 
<elfy> ochosi: that appears to be much better :) http://imagebin.org/259138
<elfy> now that I actually look in this one at the greeter - the 'icon' is there too - you can safely ignore me :)
<elfy> Noskcaj: the autopilot channel doesn't log - so a copy of the logs from when you talked to them would do - thanks
<Noskcaj> elfy: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5706048/
<elfy> Noskcaj: so that's not where you were "i talked to the autopilot guys. apparently a lot of other F/OSS uses autopilot, so some might even still be usable by us." then 
<elfy> because that's what I'd like to see :)
<Noskcaj> ok, and it seems that no other projects make it easy to find their involvement. you might be better with google, but i found nothing
<elfy> ok thanks - I just assumed that you talking to them had something somewhere
<ochosi> elfy: ok, yeah that's almost as it should be
<ochosi> elfy: but bluesabre decided to break the icon-theming with his last commit ;)
<ochosi> elfy: so those will also be fixed soon i guess
<elfy> :)
<ochosi> happy at least the rest works again
<ochosi> bbl
<elfy> yep - I didn't think that the idea was to have an unreadable login screen :)
<elfy> hf
<ochosi> hehe, ty
<knome> good day
<Noskcaj> evening knome 
<elfy> Noskcaj: autopilot will work - it's working for me now 
<Noskcaj> elfy, great to hear. 
<Noskcaj> raring or saucy?
<elfy> saucy
<elfy> the source was all fubar - redid the add ppa - updated/upgraded and it worked ;)
<Noskcaj> can you link me the ppa? i'll try it on raring tomorrow morning
<elfy>  sudo add-apt-repository ppa:autopilot/ppa 
<elfy>  sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install python-autopilot
<Noskcaj> if we can make this thing work for the post-install tests will be a lot easier
<knome> we still can't forget manual tests though
<Noskcaj> knome, no. but those post install tests take a long time, and they're not run very frequently
<knome> what's taking time in them is the hardware testing, which autopilot can't really do..
<Noskcaj> knome, ok. offtopic: has there been any discussion on using a magnet link for downloading xubuntu?
<knome> very brief.
<elfy> bbl
<Noskcaj> knome, and?
<knome> Noskcaj, and there hasn't been any progress for it
<Noskcaj> i can't help but wonder, why still use a file?
<knome> Noskcaj, many of our users aren't as tech-savvy as us developers
<Noskcaj> knome, no, but with th exception of chrome in ubuntu, a magnet works just as well, and without the semi-confusing download
<knome> Noskcaj, so are you saying it works in internet explorer as well?
<Noskcaj> knome, i hope so, it's the torrent client that does the work either way.
<Noskcaj> so .torrent and magnet link are similar "nerd level"
<knome> Noskcaj, i'm not really sure what the benefit of the magnet link would be, if it's simply a link that opens the torrent application?
<Noskcaj> how they work: file: link to "trackers", then downloads from a list from the trackers. link: uses lots of confusing algorithms to ignore the need for trackers, so no "middle man" and nothing to host, no download as well. both methods get similar amounts of peers
<knome> hosting is not a problem, it's an automatic process that happens with a release
<Noskcaj> ok. i can't help but think we should have both then. no more effort for us, we have reliability if the tracker goes down and it's a more "neat" and less confusing way to do this
<knome> if the tracker goes down, the world is upside down
<knome> Noskcaj, please describe the steps we would need to take, list browsers that have problems with it and send to the mailing list and it can be taken into consideration
<knome> Noskcaj, also please think of an argument against this: if the torrent link is confusing, how isn't having two different torrentish links confusing?
<Noskcaj> ok, i'll look into it. i have little knowledge of how they are made. if someone is using a torrent client, they no what the link and the file are. 
<Noskcaj> *know
<knome> i'm sure one can't make that assumption.
<Noskcaj> most torrent sites use both, some use only the link
<Noskcaj> knome, ok, but it's a good generalization
<knome> you're saying the same thing in other words. no, i don't think it's a good generalization
<Noskcaj> everywhere you can use a torrent client, they use both formats, side by side
<knome> are you referring to open source downloads now, or torrent sites that do not care about copyrights?
<Noskcaj> all torrent sites outside of ubuntu. even the no piracy sites
<knome> ok. please link to some bigger ones that do so in your mail
<Noskcaj> knome, i'll make a small personal wiki page, detail everything there
<knome> Noskcaj, that's fine
<Noskcaj> knome, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Noskcaj/XubuntuMagnetLinks is my "beta", i'll finish it tomorrow
<knome> Noskcaj, thanks. can you also send it to the developer mailing list for broader discussion?
<Noskcaj> i will when it's finished
<knome> thanks
<bluesabre> elfy: hopefully, we can get you to this point: http://imagebin.org/259157
<elfy> bluesabre: that looks nice :)
<elfy> wonder why mine isn't like that - I did the ppa for the greeter and git cloned into /usr/share/themes
<bluesabre> yeah, I'm not sure whats up with that
<bluesabre> hopefully we can sort it out
<ochosi> i think that it's simply not the latest build
<elfy> ok 
<ochosi> (at least that's what i assume)
<elfy> but as you know - happy enough to test it for you when you need it :)
<bluesabre> absolutely, and thanks!
<elfy> and I assume it's nothing silly like me using nouveau on nvidia card 
<ochosi> i'm also currently using nouveau
<elfy> ok 
<ochosi> but i'm already considering to switch back to nvidia
<ochosi> nouveau has weird artifacts on the greeter's bg when switching user
<ochosi> and it also means i can't suspend to ram
<elfy> well sometimes it works for me -1304 I tried to install nvidia - themes completely 1999  :)
<elfy> then in another 1304 it works fine - weird
<elfy> but in my opinion the greeter should work with nouveau 
<ochosi> nah, it shouldn't be that bad
<ochosi> it's just some graphical artifacts, not the win98 style
<elfy> that's ok then 
<elfy> probably good if I carry on checking with nouveau then if others are looking at in nvidia 
<ochosi> but not being able to suspend is important for me, so i'll switch back
<elfy> yea - can see that, I can suspend with nouveau 
<ochosi> i can suspend too, but it doesn't wake up again ;)
<elfy> lol
<elfy> mind you I've never tried with the laptop as it's battery lasts about 15 minutes ... 
<nixnine> Hey guys, I'm using ubuntu studio and all of  sudden my disk/partitions have become read only.  I cannot save anything to any.  Can someone help me?
<knome> why was that person in #xubuntu-devel?
<knome> that makes *no* sense.
<knome> did somebody in the ubuntu studio channels point this person here?
<holstein> knome: nah.. looks like a standard emergency cross post.. we have something about the xubuntu channel in our topic for "nromal" xfce issues
<holstein> normal*
<knome> yeah, #xubuntu is totally fine
<holstein> knome: its too bad really.. folks dont realize the similarites in the variants
<holstein> a simple "read only file system ubuntu" google search would help them a lot
<knome> yup.
<holstein> mostly, what i feel like i do 98% of the time is properly google things
<holstein> knowing what to ask where...
<knome> agreed
<bluesabre> knome, ochosi, other awesome and skilled translators, some new strings in catfish trunk: https://translations.launchpad.net/catfish-search/trunk
<bluesabre> catfish bugs are easy to fix nowadays :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: hm, i just translated all missing strings in german (12), but they're still listed in the overview page: https://translations.launchpad.net/catfish-search/trunk
<bluesabre> sometimes it takes a little while for launchpad to update
<ochosi> alrighty
<knome> stupid bluesabre changing strings ;)
<bluesabre> nope, didn't change them, forgot to include them ;)
<knome> hah.
<knome> stupid bluesabre forgotting to include strings
<knome> better?
<bluesabre> much better!
<bluesabre> :(
<knome> j/k, i'll go and update.
<knome> shouldn't it be "ISO format", not "iso format" ?
<bluesabre> probably
<bluesabre> want me to change it?
<knome> if you want to... :)
<knome> are PATH/FILEMANAGER strings?
<knome> and WRAPPER
<bluesabre> more or less
<bluesabre> you can change them as you see fit
<knome> there's no way to know that
<knome> aha...
<knome> so translate?
<knome> or not translate
<bluesabre> don't translate
<bluesabre> one sec
<knome> okay
<bluesabre> see here: 
<bluesabre> http://pastebin.com/LWLwHUxX
<knome> okay
<knome> can you add "context" for those?
<knome> or make them look like they are strings?
<knome> or sth to tell the translators that they shouldn't translate them
<bluesabre> yeah, I'll do that and ISO right now
<knome> ok, i'll refrain from editing until you update the translations
<elfy> funny that - I was doing the catfish test thing today 
<bluesabre> knome: updated, should show up in a few minutes
<knome> bluesabre, goodie
<knome> so WRAPPER is an application?
<bluesabre> ochosi: ^ german translation is now outdated
<bluesabre> yeah
<knome> oki
<bluesabre> xdg-open
<bluesabre> :)
<knome> the finnish translation is done.
<bluesabre> yay!
<elfy> the finnish translation is finished surely :D
<knome> finnished :P
<elfy> :)
<elfy> cya all tomorrow I hope
<bluesabre> seeya elfy
<ochosi> bluesabre: meh, already again outdated?
<bluesabre> blame knome and his sense of consistency ;)
<bluesabre> bbl
<Noskcaj> knome, i've sent off the email for a magnet link
<knome> i see
<knome> i'll get to that tomorrow or so
<Unit193> Torrent files are still used and quite useful, not exactly deprecated.  Magnets are quite nice though, even more so in IRC.
<knome> Unit193, yep.
#xubuntu-devel 2013-05-28
<Unit193> Noskcaj: Could just use the magnet of theofficial torrent too.
<GridCube> going to >  Setting >settings manager > Menu editor  and clicking "help" returns : El URI Â«ghelp:user-guide?menu-editor#menu-editorÂ» no apunta a una paÌgina vaÌlida.
<GridCube> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/alacarte/+bug/1073742
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1073742 in alacarte (Ubuntu) "Alacarte help button produces error document" [Medium,Triaged]
<bluesabre> micahg: I have a recipe/packaging question for you :)
<bluesabre> micahg: is it the recipe or the debian control file that controls the package name?
<bluesabre> I have this recipe: https://code.launchpad.net/~lightdm-gtk-greeter-team/+recipe/lightdm-gtk-greeter-gtk2-daily
<bluesabre> and this control file: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/lightdm-gtk-greeter/debian-gtk2/revision/98
<bluesabre> it should make a lightdm-gtk-greeter-gtk2 package, right?
<bluesabre> or mrpouit ^
<knome> "or anybody i'm so desperate AAAARGH *sobs*" ?
<bluesabre> yes, any packagers
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> not so desperate to take advise from anybody? dang.
<bluesabre> well, since I thought I did everything right, turning to the pros :)
<Unit193> Well, counts me out...  Normally you set it in d/control and /dchangelog.
<bluesabre> ah
 * Unit193 is clearly no pro.
<bluesabre> changelog
<bluesabre> is probably the problem
<Unit193> bluesabre: Also, can't upload same version.
<bluesabre> if its going to be a different package name it should work
<bluesabre> gtk: lightdm-gtk-greeter
<bluesabre> gtk2: lightdm-gtk-greeter-gtk2
<bluesabre> (that first was supposed to be a 3)
<bluesabre> and that didn't help :(
<bluesabre> packaging can be silly it seems
<knome> it must be sillily (?) strict, unless everybody would push silly packages and our machines would be crapped
<bluesabre> thats what I'm trying to do!
<bluesabre> ;)
<knome> :<
<bluesabre> woot!  figured it out
<knome> haha
<knome> dear $deity, don't let bluesabre break our systems
<bluesabre> heh
<knome> s/our systems/my system/
<knome> fixed.
<bluesabre> it was nice when raring was finishing development.  Build times weren't 8+ hours
<bluesabre> now that saucy has begun, its crazy
<knome> heh :)
<knome> wait until a few days before the final freeze and it's even more insane
<knome> or feature freeze, or pick your favorite
<bluesabre> ff is my favorite, thats when I'm usually rushed to push out new releases of everything I ever look at
<knome> the first f being final or feature? :P
<bluesabre> feature
<knome> ambiguous!
<bluesabre> intentional or accidental?  yes
<Unit193> Random days during the week are pretty good, actually.
<bluesabre> It's better today then yesterday, had a 12-hour wait for the build
<bluesabre> *than
<bluesabre> fail me
<Unit193> I take it you've setup pbuilder/cowbuilder/sbuild?
<bluesabre> yeah, using pbuilder
<bluesabre> still getting used to it
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/tUPmBdFgUu2XAkXfb6wX/ I need to remove a few, I think.
<Unit193> (Just one.)
<bluesabre> are you an ubuntu packager, Unit193?
<Unit193> bluesabre: No sir.
<bluesabre> just maintain a few packages, or what app do you package?
<knome> Unit193, this would be the right moment to confess you work as a packager in a show factory.
<bluesabre> lol
<knome> shoe too
<bluesabre> show factories are pretty impressive ;)
<knome> haha
<Unit193> inxi is in NEW for Debian, and random packages too, have a nice build folder that runs uscan every 3 days. :)
<bluesabre> oh
<bluesabre> that looks cool
<bluesabre> very sys-admin-y
<Unit193> Yes, it's a very nice too.  00 13 */3 * * uscan --report /path/to/dir/  being the crontab entry.
#xubuntu-devel 2013-05-29
<elfy> lderan: perhaps it would be better to discuss this autopilot thing in here 
<lderan> aye
<elfy> so what did knome say briefly? 
<elfy> I saw something about python, which is a snake
<lderan> also part of a name of a famous comedy group
<elfy> oh hang on - forgot I've got scrollback 
<lderan> he said something along the lines of writing the test scripts in python to use with autopilot for testing out the xubuntu specific applications
<elfy> right 
<elfy> so at the moment - we've nothing in autopilot yet, so if you can get your head around writing some that would be great - the plan is two fold at present, so depending on part 1, part 2 might not even be needed
<elfy> part 1 is working out whether this is actually going to be of any use to us at all - Noskcaj had done a bit of looking into that I believe, but nothing as yet 
<elfy> prt2 is getting things to autopilot with - ie the python bits
<lderan> so far i have got it set up and moving my cursor in an infinite square
<knome> lderan, set up in xubuntu? i suppose that answers part 1...
<lderan> yup
<elfy> oh I have managed to get autopilot to run evince and do the autopilot vios thing 
<elfy> what would be great would be some sort of 'record' tool - start autopilot record and then do a bunch of tasks 
<lderan> think that is possible
<elfy> unless they've already got one of course ... 
<lderan> shall look for it
<elfy> #ubuntu-autopilot is the cahnnel I suspect 
<elfy> I've not had time since the weekend to do much looking to be honest
<lderan> fair enough
<elfy> knome: I'm not usre that answers part 1 - it shows that we can 'use' it but the real question is whether it's of practical use 
<lderan> shall see if they have the answers
<elfy> especially given the bug Unit193 linked me too a day or two ago 
<knome> mhm
<Unit193> :P
<elfy> https://bugs.launchpad.net/autopilot/+bug/1169593
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1169593 in Autopilot "Some applications are not introspectable" [Undecided,New]
<elfy> "I would recommend closing this as won't fix as apart from patching the source of the applications themselves there is nothing the autopilot team can do to enable these applications to work with autopilot."
<elfy> I'm going to be able to spend a bit more time on it over the next couple of days so I can look at the overview perhaps
<elfy> I can spend an hour getting a list of default apps together and see which autopilot works with and which it doesn't
<lderan> that'll be useful 
<elfy> I'd say if the +'s outnumber the -'s then we should look further - but if there aren't many +'s then we need to make a decision then as to whether to go any further
<lderan> i'll look into writing some basic tests in the mean time then, even if we decide to not go with it the exposure to more python will be good.
<elfy> k
<elfy> hang on a second
<elfy> 'figuratively'
<elfy> gnumeric seems to run from autopilot ok 
<elfy> first one I've found that does 
<lderan> cool
<elfy> I'll work out a list tomorrow 
<elfy> did I see a link to an Xubuntu roadmap autopilot page ? 
<lderan> yup
<Unit193> Bah, abiword in saucy is still the bad version.
<elfy> lderan: do you have it then :p
<lderan> shall find it
<elfy> oh - thought you had it to hand - sorry :)
<lderan> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Saucy/AutopilotTesting
<lderan> its in my history so near enough
<elfy> k - cheers - I'll sort the apps and a/pilot out and put it on that page then
<lderan> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Saucy/EnablingXubuntuDevelopers a list of the xubuntu packages as well
<elfy> lderan: probably not all of those would need it :)
<lderan> aye :P
<elfy> I'll work with the default apps we have in menu to start with I think :)
<elfy> lderan: so returning to the 'plan' if we get part 1 as a positive - then we need to work on getting the tests ready so we can start to use it in time for 14.04 
<lderan> okay sounds like a plan
<elfy> I believe that is what knome is looking for
<elfy> the manual testcases are quite easy - and it seems that someone from the forum is also picking up on those 
<knome> yes
<elfy> see - I do listen :)
<knome> i never had any doubts about that ;)
<elfy> lol
<elfy> lderan: <balloons> elfy, no recording actions I'm afraid
<lderan> ah okay
<knome> elfy, well that doesn't mean non-technical people can't help; they can write up listings what needs to be done
<elfy> yea 
<elfy> that'll be me then :)
<knome> elfy, that's one direction - i'd rather see generally less involved people get their hands dirty with these relatively low-hanging fruit
<elfy> ok - well it's only likely to take me an hour tomorrow to sort a list out tbh
<knome> that yeah, but i was referring to the actual tests too
<elfy> oic - not going to be much I could do with those I doubt at present - I understand what you mean by listing now 
<elfy> open app - do this - do that - do the other
<knome> yep
<knome> and i don't think we're even close to that point yet
<knome> but eventually, eventually...
<elfy> indeed
<elfy> what we need now is to get a list of which ones it will work with - basic data to work forward from 
<lderan> aye that we do
<elfy> knome: at least he's trying to talk about xfce  :)
<knome> hehe
<lderan> ?
<elfy> right - that's enough for me - goodnight all 
<lderan> good night elfy :)
<elfy> I'll do that list tomorrow and hope to get it on wiki - if not it'll be a text thing of some sort.
<lderan> awesome :D
#xubuntu-devel 2013-05-30
<elfy> knome lderan autopilot is checked against our default apps from menu - information is on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Saucy/AutopilotTesting
<elfy> suggest we have some sort of informal meetingette about whether we should pursue it at some point
<elfy> bbl
<lderan> 25 fails and 17 works
<Noskcaj> and the screenshot test should be easily ported
<pleia2> welcome amerigena 
<amerigena> Thanks
<amerigena> working on the flyer right now, if that's OK with everyone.
<amerigena> If it's not, let me know right now and I'll stop.
<pleia2> yes, thank you!
<amerigena> I'
<pleia2> it's middle-of-the-night knome time, but he can collaborate tomorrow
<amerigena> OK.
<knome> who highlighted me? :P
<Unit193> (Doesn't mean he'd not be up.)
<Unit193> Only 1.
<pleia2> haha
<pleia2> good thing knome never sleeps
<lderan> :P
<knome> i slept all day :P
<pleia2> haha
<knome> amerigena, what's with the flyer?
<pleia2> knome: he's helping us!
<pleia2> he's the volunteer I mentioned when I said "knome, upload your draft"
<knome> i know, but i'm wondering where you need me :)
<knome> i did upload that, and i told you i did
<pleia2> yes, I passed it along to amerigena 
<amerigena> The layout of the flyer goes : What can I do with Xubuntu, How do I install more applications, FAQ
<pleia2> now we're working on the google doc some more and doing more brainstorming
<amerigena> Do you want separate sections boldfaced?
<knome> amerigena, the layout can be changed, it all depends on our content
<amerigena> OK
<pleia2> amerigena: so I think right now we want to work on expanding content
<knome> pleia2, sounds good
<knome> definitely!
<pleia2> amerigena: were you able to open the google doc link?
<amerigena> Yep
<amerigena> Working on it right now.
<pleia2> great
<amerigena> Heading fonts, Arial or Ubuntu?
<knome> amerigena, don't worry about that right now
<knome> amerigena, we'll make sure everything looks pretty when we move the stuff to the layouts
<pleia2> we can probably work on those specifics later, for now we want more words (or ideas for words)
<knome> and when i say we, i mean i
<amerigena> OK. Heard that. 
<knome> pleia2, we should get moving with the forms too for the magazine articles, but i'm not really up to organize it while being sick
<amerigena> Content-wise, is it acceptable to not just lay out Xubuntu's similarities, but its advantages? 
<amerigena> to Ubuntu
<knome> sure, as long as it keeps civil ;)
<pleia2> knome: should I send them to contributors, or..?
<pleia2> knome: I can't accept $$, so you can have mine
<knome> pleia2, aha. okay...
 * knome bows
<knome> i owe you some more beer
<knome> or a t-shirt, or sth
<knome> :P
<pleia2> maybe I'll just ask to paypal me some money for tshirt tests
<knome> yes, i can just paypal your portion back.
<knome> i would be much more comfortable with that.
<pleia2> ok, minus whatever taxes you need to pay or whatever
<knome> probably not too much... :)
<pleia2> :)
<knome> anyway, yeah, we should get the forms to the contributors
<pleia2> knome: want to contribute to openstack?
<pleia2> I need a css file
<knome> i can
<knome> what do you need in it?
<pleia2> I tried to write it but it makes me want to stab the wall
<knome> lol
 * pleia2 goes to -offtopic
<pleia2> knome: oh right, did you want me to send the forms to our authors?
<knome> yes, if you have a timeslot for that
<pleia2> ok, shall I offer them the option of forfeit to knome for project stuff?
<knome> we should define "project stuff" first then
<knome> i don't want to organize this against canonical's wishes
<pleia2> we'll just call it stickers that pleia2 usually buys herself
<knome> so in that regard i'm a bit against "giving them to X"
<knome> the stupid thing here is that it'll be under people's taxed income
<pleia2> yeah :\
<pleia2> some people may be in a position I am where it's annoying to do paid work outside of $dayjob
<pleia2> could just give them the option of not accepting at all
<knome> well that's meh too
<pleia2> indeed
<pleia2> but I don't want to place a tax burden upon you that you don't want :)
<knome> no, that's not the point
<knome> i don't mind about that
<knome> it's more about the lost money i mind about
<pleia2> for the amounts we're talking I don't think we need to be worried about canonical
<knome> if people are wanting to redirect their money for me, i want to create a specific plan that pleia2 makes sure is observed at least
<pleia2> ok
<knome> but my starting point is definitely to give the money to the people who worked on the articles
<knome> *they* can order stickers and give them around if they want the project to benefit
<pleia2> did Sonny ever reply to your email asking for clarification?
<knome> or order a test t-shirt
<knome> yeah
<knome> let me dig that up
<pleia2> ty
<knome> PM
<pleia2> k
#xubuntu-devel 2013-05-31
<nixnine> hey guys, i was trying to update some packages and got an error about aptdaemon.  And now I have the problem of not being able to mount any disks.  How do I resolve this problem.  I am using ubuntustudio 12.10.
<pleia2> nixnine: this is the development channel (not support) for xubuntu, you might want to try out #ubuntustudio (or #xubuntu) with a paste.ubuntu.com link to your error
<nixnine> sorry, thought I might get better results here.
<pleia2> knome: ok, all tax emails sent (I sent one to you too :))
 * pleia2 seeks sushi
<stgraber> knome: ping
<stgraber> knome, mr_pouit: I'm adding upstart user job support to xfce4-session. That's just an extra file dumped into /usr/share/upstart/sessions which allows for users to run the xfce/xubuntu session under upstart.
<stgraber> at this stage it won't be the default, you'll have to explicitly add xfce and xubuntu to /etc/upstart-xsessions for it to take effect, but it'd be great if we could make that the default at some point in the saucy cycle
<stgraber> knome, mr_pouit: change tested, test built and uploaded. Next step is to coordinate testing of the new feature to ensure that it doesn't regress anything obvious, before we can consider making this the default.
<skellat> stgraber: What do we gain from this?  I haven't quite understood that.
<stgraber> skellat: the most important gain is that you won't have to maintain ubiquity-dm or any other software that we move to using upstart user sessions in Ubuntu
<stgraber> skellat: but more generally, you gain the ability of having autostarted software on steroid where you can ship upstart jobs for software running in the user session while depending on system events or hardware events
<stgraber> skellat: for example you could add a file in ~/.init/xterm.conf containing:
<stgraber> start on :sys:usb-device-added
<stgraber> exec xterm
<stgraber> which is a bit of a stupid example, that'll spawn an xterm the first time you plug something in a usb port
<stgraber> you can also use any other upstart features for those jobs, including instances, auto-respawn, complex dependencies, ...
<stgraber> for the ubuntu desktop, our plan is to move quite a few of the current desktop daemon/services that are always running to upstart jobs that only trigger when actually needed (as we'll very soon gain the ability to start/stop jobs based on gsettings values)
<stgraber> an obvious example is something like a bluetooth applet which you only want to start if: 1) the user has enabled bluetooth in the session 2) the system bluez service is running 3) you have bluetooth hardware
<stgraber> something like: start on gsettings-key PATH=/org.bluez/bluetooth-applet/enabled VALUE=true and :sys:bluetooth started and bluetooth-device-added
<stgraber> would be an approximation of a startup condition that we could have for such applets
<stgraber> another nice side effect of upstart user sessions, but I may be the only one who cares about that is that the whole session is kind of contained below the upstart process. So if you do a "ps faux" for example, you'll see that the whole session tree now looks clean and makes sense. Killing upstart will kill everything so that usually leads to cleaner logouts.
<skellat> Okay
<skellat> I'll need to keep this in mind as a documentation writer.  Thank you stgraber.
<stgraber> skellat: I expect the Ubuntu and Kubuntu doc writers will also want to add something for that feature, so chances are you can pretty much re-use the same text across desktop environments as it's a generic feature and only the name of the main job varies between environments
<knome> stgraber, thanks for the information; i'll have to dig deeped to that when i've been able to beat this flu :)
<stgraber> knome: sure. I'm probably going to nag all the flavour leads in a couple of weeks to see if you're all ready to make this the default, so you've got time. Good luck fighting that flu ;)
<knome> stgraber, ta. though as you know, i'm technically limited, so better ping mr_pouit/micahg if you need to ask and get an answer ;)
<knome> and thanks, i'll be fighting it like a pro - just got some rum for medication
<stgraber> knome: well, I think we mostly need testing more than any technical work on that. I only used xubuntu for around 2min to test my change, so what we probably want at this stage are people using this for their main session for a few days and reporting any regression they spot.
<knome> forestpiskie, ^
<stgraber> knome: it's now been the default in Ubuntu saucy for over a month, so I'm pretty sure we caught most if not all issues already, but better safe than sorry (having a broken desktop session is always a bit annoying)
<knome> definitely!
<OvenWerks> stgraber: is that set up in the xfce DE? Or will UbuntuStudio need to add thsi somewhere?
<stgraber> OvenWerks: what do you get if you do "echo $DESKTOP_SESSION" on UbuntuStudio?
<OvenWerks> Let me run upstaris... this machine has kubuntu
<OvenWerks> we get ubuntustudio
<stgraber> doh, was hoping for "xfce". Right, then I'll need to take a look at studio once I'm done with lubuntu
<OvenWerks> should be in ubuntustudio-default-settings
<OvenWerks> Well, our session stuff
<amerigena> Do the screenshots in the Xubuntu flyer have to be from a generic / default install?
<pleia2> my own opinion is "yes" unless we decided to add a section about how it's easy to customize, maybe one screenshot where someone did crazy/cool things :)
<pleia2> but I want other feedback on this, peanut gallery
 * pleia2 nudges Unit193 
<Unit193> That's..me.  In general I'd think about the same, you may want to clearify that you can do good custom setups, don't have to use the defaults.
<Unit193> Hopefully that makes sense?  I'm not good at marketing. :P
<amerigena> Sounds good to me. Not planning on adding too much graphical content anyway. 
<pleia2> it's true that I am only marketing lead because I set up twitter ;)
<amerigena> how many pages is it supposed to be?
<pleia2> amerigena: initial run just one page
<pleia2> the kind of thing we can just hand out at conferences to people who are curious
<amerigena> OK. Well, it's around one-and-a-quarter now.
<amerigena> I'll get rid of some stuff.
<pleia2> yay! easier to remove than add :)
<amerigena> Actually, it's around two-and-a-quarter.
<amerigena> So I guess all of you can make the cuts.
<pleia2> so we're thinking of eventually doing a double-sided thing (perhaps a folding type thing)
<amerigena> Sounds good. Format it in Scribus, make it a true leaflet.
<pleia2> yeah :)
<pleia2> in the US we can print them relatively cheaply with vistaprint.com
<amerigena> Vistaprint allows 3rd party formatting? 
<amerigena> I don't really know that much about it, but would really like to learn.
<Unit193> Did -website people end up deciding not to have a "gallery" on the website?
#xubuntu-devel 2013-06-01
<forestpiskie> knome - saw that, noted - shall plan for a mail with detail
<knome> Unit193, we haven't decided anything yet. i should get the refresh going first.
<Unit193> Alrighty.
<knome> zequence, connection problems?
 * bluesabre has joined #xubuntu-devel
<bluesabre> ;)
<bluesabre> didn't like my joke
<knome> lol
<bluesabre> bbl
<bluesabre> I can finally confirm that the daily gtk2 greeter package works!
<bluesabre> yayyyyyy
<lderan> :D
<secret_ninja> anybody know the mir channel?
<Noskcaj> secret_ninja, like i said, #ubuntu-devel is the place to ask
#xubuntu-devel 2013-06-02
<secret_ninja> this is xubuntu-devel
<Noskcaj> yes, i said ask on Ubuntu-devel (the # means IRC channel)
<skellat> secret_ninja: You need to head over to #ubuntu-mir
<skellat> secret_ninja: We're not really doing anything with mir at the moment from the Xubuntu angle
<secret_ninja> thnk you.
<skellat> knome unit193 Can we make a factoid for ubottu to direct folks to #ubuntu-mir when inquiring about that particular display manager 
<Noskcaj> +1 to that idea
<Unit193> !mir
<ubottu> Mir is the next-generation display server currently under development by Canonical and Ubuntu. It's slated for inclusion in Ubuntu 14.04. For more information on it, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Mir/Spec . For code, see https://launchpad.net/mir
<skellat> Unit193: We need to add the IRC channel to that factoid
<Unit193> !addfact | skellat 
<ubottu> skellat: To add a factoid to the bot, use the following form (the factoid will then be forwarded to the ops to approve): !foo is <reply> bar
<skellat> !mir is Mir is the next-generation display server currently under development by Canonical and Ubuntu. It's slated for inclusion in Ubuntu 14.04. IRC discussions about it take place in #ubuntu-mir.  For more information on it, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Mir/Spec . For code, see https://launchpad.net/mir
<skellat> !mir
<ubottu> Mir is the next-generation display server currently under development by Canonical and Ubuntu. It's slated for inclusion in Ubuntu 14.04. For more information on it, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Mir/Spec . For code, see https://launchpad.net/mir
<elfy> wb Unit193 :)
<OvenWerks> zequence: I am thinking we should switch video players to match Xubuntu. Totem has been crashing for a while, for me and others. Parole works and xubuntu tests it.
<OvenWerks> Xine works fine and should stay there, but some people find the UI kind of old. However Xine seems to work anywhere.
<OvenWerks> zequence: I am thinking we should switch video players to  match Xubuntu. Totem has been crashing for a while, for me  and others. Parole works and xubuntu tests it.
<OvenWerks> Xine works fine and should stay there, but some people find  the UI kind of old. However Xine seems to work anywhere.
<OvenWerks> Repeated the above two lines because you timed out just after I wrote them.
<OvenWerks> zequence: We may need to rethink our extra Apps stuff. USC is not there in KDE/Lunutu
<OvenWerks> zequence: your net connection has not been great this weekend. I don't think you have missed much but you may want to check the logs.
 * OvenWerks is off for a while
<Unit193> "Has not been great" is an understatement. :P
<knome> skellat, i'll look into the factoid thing now. it's a manual process to update it, but the ops have now got a message of you proposed factoid. thanks!
<Unit193> 3.0.0~svn20130523-1ubuntu1 hit saucy repos, may want to poke it.
<knome> who, what?
<Unit193> Bleh, missed the name. Abiword.
<knome> :)
<knome> poke with what and why?
<knome> is it dangerous?
<Unit193> Last couple releases there were problems with the SVN snapshot, if I remember correctly.  Poke it with a stick, a very long one (slang.)
 * knome slams the new abiword package with a long bamboo stick *BLAM*
<knome> it's dead.
<Unit193> Aha, good!
#xubuntu-devel 2014-05-26
<knome> any specific reason -testers is subscribed to librabbitmq and telepathy-farstream?
<knome> i'm sure most of the testers do not appreciate bugmail for those packages...
<Unit193> I saw that, no idea why it should be.  If anything at all, it'd be the xubuntu-bugs team.
<knome> the -qa team is a potential candidate as well.
<Unit193> So just think about it like this, not seeded in Xubuntu, not going to be, so no reason to have it subscribed.
<elfy> no idea either 
<elfy> and we're not
<knome> elfy, drop librabbitmq while you're at it
<knome> cool.
<elfy> I did :)
<elfy> I wondered where those reports were coming from - but wasn't interested enough to go looking 
<elfy> could subscribe -testers to things like the xfpm/lid close thing - possibly get more people seeing that something needs testing
 * elfy never thought of that 
<Unit193> ochosi, knome: OK, well I'll mention it then be done.  Trello bot is done, less spammy and works.  Could get more features or have things worded better, but nevertheless.
<ochosi> Unit193: nice!
<bluesabre> Unit193: poke
<bluesabre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm-gtk-greeter/+bug/1320830
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1320830 in lightdm-gtk-greeter (Ubuntu) "Please merge lightdm-gtk-greeter 1.8.5-1 from Debian unstable" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<bluesabre> I'm not getting the same build error that dholbach is...
<bluesabre> are my debdiffs bad?
<bluesabre> ...
<bluesabre> is he trying to use 1.8.4 with the 1.8.5 source?
<ochosi> bluesabre: tried pinging dholbach yet?
<bluesabre> not yet
<bluesabre> want to make sure I'm not doing something stupid
<bluesabre> :D
<pleia2> http://linuxluddites.com/shows/episode-16/
<pleia2> haven't listened yet (soon!) but I was interviewed about Xubuntu there
<pleia2> my part is only like 25 minutes. whole thing is 2 hours
 * pleia2 listens to all
<ElderDryas> Xubuntu/Interview starts about 1:30:00
<ElderDryas> Interview at 1:35:10
<pleia2> thanks ElderDryas :)
<ElderDryas> huh, after an hour and a half of the show, /me thinks pleia2 has a funny accent :)
 * bluesabre listens
<bluesabre> gnu* things always trick me
<pleia2> ElderDryas: lol
<bluesabre> now the name *gnumeric makes sense hearing somebody else say it
<ochosi> bluesabre: hey, instead of listening you should get the xfpm/lls patch up for 14.10! >:D
<bluesabre> working on that right now
<bluesabre> >:)
 * ochosi is an evil slave driver
<ochosi> so everyone who voted for me, joke's on you!
<ElderDryas> So...how's that Hopey Changy thing working for you? :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: i'm aware you didn't vote for me, so yeah, go complain to the others ;)
<bluesabre> lol
<bluesabre> didn't want you to win too easily
 * bluesabre had to put up a fight
<ochosi> :)
 * elfy was just part of the subversion element
<elfy> let someone else be xpl 
<elfy> blame them :p
<bluesabre> :D
<ElderDryas> nice interview pleia2 :)
<bluesabre> yeah, good stuff pleia2 :D
<pleia2> thanks guys
<bluesabre> ochosi: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-locker-settings/+bug/1323368
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1323368 in light-locker-settings (Ubuntu) "Please upload light-locker-settings 1.2.1-0ubuntu2 to utopic" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<bluesabre> ochosi: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-power-manager/+bug/1323367
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1323367 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu) "Please upload xfce4-power-manager 1.2.0-3ubuntu5 to utopic" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ochosi> bluesabre: great, thanks!
<brainwash> elfy: no ibus included in the daily iso bug 1318319
<ubottu> bug 1318319 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Return of ibus to Xubuntu" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1318319
<brainwash> we need to re-assign bug 1310380
<ubottu> bug 1310380 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Xubuntu 14.04 live DVD does not boot" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1310380
<elfy> brainwash: haven't noticed if it's gone again tbh
<brainwash> elfy: maybe mark as incomplete/invalid then?
<brainwash> the 2nd report is caused by the nvidia gpu, so not sure which package to choose
<brainwash> just "linux"?
<elfy> brainwash: juts booting one
<elfy> and why would I mark it like that - when I reported it - it WAS there :)
<knome> brainwash, nouveau?
<brainwash> knome: yes, xserver-xorg-video-nouveau
<brainwash> right
<brainwash> elfy: mmh, we need to confirm it then
<knome> check the gnome-bluetooth deps
<elfy> amazing how many people say stuff like that
<knome> like what?
<brainwash> we don't install gnome-bluetooth anymore
<elfy> like 'we need to confirm x' which I generally take to mean 'someone other than me should confirm x'
<knome> lol
<knome> i'm eating
<brainwash> I cannot confirm it
<knome> i can look at it later if you think i'm being lazy ;)
<brainwash> so it's +1/-1
<elfy> nah
<elfy> I'm just looking now 
<brainwash> thanks :)
<elfy> hopefully it got removed 
<knome> elfy, generally, if you feel like i'm avoiding to do things, feel free to call that out and tell me i need to do it
<elfy> no idea how the damn thing got back in either
<knome> :P
<elfy> knome: lol
<knome> except take the XPL hat...
<bluesabre> knome: you know you miss it
<knome> bluesabre, of course i do. but then i also definitely don't :)
<elfy> generally I feel that the majority of team could do more testing - it appears that 8 of team reported on the trackers
<elfy> but if I set a cutoff- get listed if you do more than 2 it would be less :p
<knome> mmh
<knome> i seriously promise to do more testing this cycle when we hit the milestones
<elfy> :p
<knome> it's just really hard to keep all the strings somewhat in your hands and then be able to dig deep in all areas, especially those that require relatively lot of time, even if they were easy and/but important things
<elfy> I know :)
<knome> it's a completely different story when you basically "only" need to make sure your own work items get done :)
<elfy> not when you're work items depend on everyone else ;)
<elfy> anyway - enough of that 
<knome> yeah... that's not the ideal situation either :)
<elfy> well it's a bit hard for QA to be in any other position really :)
<knome> but i do think that with the current XPL term policy (ends with LTS), the last LTS release *is* going to be "the definitive" release that defines how well you generally did running the project
<elfy> kind of depends on other people checking things :)
<knome> and you don't want that to be crap...
<elfy> ha ha ha 
<elfy> indeed not :)
<elfy> oh yea that knome - he released THAT one !
<elfy> :p
<knome> hehe
<knome> yeah
<knome> it would have been really sad to NOT see the new things prepared for many cycles in 14.04
<knome> including light-locker, even if it might seem, for some people, to only bring problems
<bluesabre> problems which will be fixed soon
<knome> yep
<bluesabre> or, are fixed, just need to be uploaded
<knome> mhm, part of the "ll is crap" attitude is because not all people know how we ended up here
<elfy> knome: I agree 
<knome> and what's happening now
<knome> parole improvements are also great, even if i don't really use non-gmb media players
<knome> menulibre *will* be awesome and is already better than alacarte
<knome> and it was a nice touch to get mugshot and gtk-theme-config in
<elfy> well it does actually do things - I gave up with alacarte
<knome> hehe
<knome> yeah...
<knome> i even went to the extreme of not using menus at all
<knome> now i'm using them a bit
<elfy> I got so used to using shortcuts to start things 
<elfy> I probably use menu for 2 or 3 things that I use 
<elfy> when we can search for 'settings' apps in menulibre - that will be great
<elfy> on the other hand I really don't want things to change too much :)
<elfy> so bluesabre - you can only change things if it means the testcase can stay the same :p
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> the plan for this cycle was just bug fixes and tiny improvements
<bluesabre> and code optimization
<bluesabre> (for my apps)
<elfy> yea
<elfy> I sort of got the gist of that 
<knome> bluesabre, sounds like something you should have done for the LTS cycle
 * knome hides
<bluesabre> I am doing it for the LTS cycle...
<bluesabre> 16.04
<elfy> lol
<knome> yeah sure
<knome> i'm sure you are completely rewriting menulibre to release 6.0 then!
<bluesabre> :D
<elfy> bluesabre: just checking here - you do know the meeting is in 66 minutes not 6 ... 
<bluesabre> if anything, I'll write my own menu parser since the gnome one is cruel
<bluesabre> elfy, yeah, figured I'd tell everybody to wake up in 6 minutes anyway ;)
<elfy> that's gnomes for you
<elfy> heh
<knome> oh right, the meeting
<knome> could probably do that one in the balcony if it's not too cool there
<elfy> you'd get electrocuted here
<knome> huhu?
<ochosi> crap, my connection is a bit wonky
<ochosi> anyhoo
<knome> :)
<ochosi> !team | meeting time!
<ubottu> meeting time!: bluesabre, elfy, GridCube, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, mr_pouit, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, skellat, slickymaster, Unit193
<ochosi> (and everyone else ofc)
<ochosi> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon May 26 20:01:30 2014 UTC.  The chair is ochosi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<bluesabre> \o/
<knome> oh boo, i'm soon running out off battery
<ochosi> indeed, boo
<elfy> o/
<ochosi> i think we were a bit lazy in terms of adding stuff to the agenda :)
<ochosi> anyway, i'll quickly tell you about my action items from last time: staging PPA: done.
<ochosi> continuing the voting on the ML was done, but we should discuss the result today i think
<ochosi> and i sent an email about how to do team meetings
<ochosi> bluesabre: how about your open action items?
<ochosi> (greeter and menulibre SRU)
<bluesabre> #info lightdm-gtk-greeter 1.8.5 is stuck, working on it
<bluesabre> #info menulibre SRU in progress
<bluesabre> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/menulibre/+bug/1323405
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1323405 in menulibre (Ubuntu) "[SRU] Please backport menulibre-2.0.4 to trusty" [Undecided,New]
<knome> bluesabre, if you need help with getting the black screen in, poke me
<knome> err, black screen fix
<ochosi> hehe
<bluesabre> knome: will do
<ochosi> knome breaks everyone's install, if needed
<bluesabre> support i'll link those as well
<bluesabre> or, wait until announcements for those
<ochosi> yup, or team updates :)
<ochosi> elfy: what about your open action items?
<elfy> do I have any?
<ochosi> nah, i think they're all done
<ochosi> just wanted to make sure
<ochosi> #topic Team updates
<elfy> the one action thing from the last meeting was done before the meeting finished :p
<ochosi> any team updates ppl?
<elfy> #info QA is slow - hardly any movement at all
<elfy> done
<knome> ;)=
<pleia2> oh hi
<knome> oh hi pleia2!
<bluesabre> black screen fix should go here or announcements?
<bluesabre> hey pleia2!
<knome> bluesabre, here's good
<bluesabre> ok
<ochosi> #info Artwork: Our icon-theme is being worked on currently, hopefully a new release soon. Fixed a few visual bugs, like bluetooth status not showing correctly in the panel (blueman) and fix for indicator-power and bright panels.
<ochosi> #info Artwork: Work on Gtk3.12 support in our themes is currently blocked by Gtk3.12 not being in the repos yet.
<pleia2> #info Marketing: pleia2 did an interview for Linux Luddites Episode #16 on Xubuntu http://linuxluddites.com/shows/episode-16/
<knome> pleia2, ooh, can we SOME that?
<bluesabre> #info Development: The light-locker black screen fix is in the sponsors queue
<bluesabre> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-locker-settings/+bug/1323368
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1323368 in light-locker-settings (Ubuntu) "Please upload light-locker-settings 1.2.1-0ubuntu2 to utopic" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<bluesabre> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-power-manager/+bug/1323367
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1323367 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu) "Please upload xfce4-power-manager 1.2.0-3ubuntu5 to utopic" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ochosi> iirc links are picked up automatically now
<ochosi> no need for #link anymore
<pleia2> knome: hm?
<ochosi> (just saying)
<knome> pleia2, social media
 * bluesabre rocks it old school
<ochosi> heh
<pleia2> knome: done!
<knome> at least links with nothing else on the line...
<ochosi> bluesabre: sure, however you prefer ;)
<knome> pleia2, cool :)
<pleia2> knome: did you #info the external CSS yet?
<knome> bluesabre, i've bumped the importance to critical.
<knome> pleia2, oh noes
<knome> i need power
<knome> brb
<bluesabre> thanks knome
 * Unit193 been skimming.
<ochosi> any further team updates?
<knome> y
<ochosi> ok, will wait for you then
<ochosi> just wanted to say in advance that despite the empty schedule, there are a few things worth discussing
<pleia2> #info Website new static.xubuntu.org CSS page was added to theme so we can do some of our own CSS updates without waiting on IS
<knome> oh duh
<knome> i was writing a much more verbose one
<ochosi> \o/ nice pleia2 and knome
<knome> ochosi, that was my item ;)
<pleia2> verbose--
<pleia2> :)
<knome> nah
<knome> depends!
<ochosi> ok, any other updates?
<knome> bluesabre, btw, i'm not sure if you should set the bug confirmed
<pleia2> I'm done
<knome> bluesabre, that might not be the way the SRU team tracks the bugs...
<bluesabre> knome: those two aren't for SRU yet
<bluesabre> gotta go to utopic, the SRU back to trusty
<ochosi> #topic Announcements
<bluesabre> so more bugs in the future :)
 * ochosi assumes that when pleia2 is done, everyone is
<ochosi> any announcements?
<knome> bluesabre, hmm, sponsors what i meant ;)
<bluesabre> ok, then it's good for sponsors ;)
<knome> bluesabre, i somehow thought sru...
<elfy> ochosi: should there not be an announcement from you 
<elfy> on the mailing list thing
<knome> and debian liaison?
<knome> or did that get two weeks
<ochosi> elfy: i actually wanted to wait for discussion for that one
<bluesabre> anybody else going to apply for tech lead?
<knome> who knows... ;)
 * elfy will just so there is someone else 
<bluesabre> oh good
<elfy> what is it?
<knome> haha
<bluesabre> ;)
<ochosi> knome: debian liaison has a week, so thursday...
<knome> ochosi, practically this is "next week", but okay ;)
<ochosi> i can of course always prematurely announce it if you insist ;)
<knome> go as you please
<elfy> there are 3 replies - that's generally about it ;)
<knome> just a thought that popped into my mind
<Unit193> ochosi: I hear Noskcaj_ wanted that. ;)
<ochosi> ok, i'll wait one more minute (or two) for further announcements, then i'll carry on
<knome> Unit193, wanted to cheer you? yeah...
<ochosi> Unit193: that's not how i interpreted his email ;)
<Noskcaj_> Unit193, What do i want?
<ochosi> and hi Noskcaj_ :)
<ochosi> any announcements from you?
<Noskcaj_> hey ochosi 
<knome> Unit193, stop being a slimey amoeba;)
<Noskcaj_> I'm back?
<knome> welcome
<bluesabre> yay!
<ochosi> hehe, good announcement :)
<ochosi> better #info that ;)
<knome> another dictator ruling the project now
<Unit193> bluesabre: Also, yes, don't set it to confirmed.
 * knome hides
<knome> hehe, he's back and he's off
<ochosi> just stopping by to say i'm back! bye! :)
<ochosi> ok, let's carry on...
<bluesabre> oh, I guess confirmed is only for sponsored merges
<ochosi> #topic Discussion
<ochosi> #suptopic Mailinglist proposal by knome
<ochosi> as you all know, we voted on knome's proposal last time
<ochosi> the result wasn't quite as unanimous as i'd have hoped
<ochosi> we discussed this outside the meetings and i came to the following conclusion/proposal:
<ochosi> especially in the light of the ML being rather slow lately and strangely since we started discussing closing the ML the offtopic stuff got reduced, i think we can leave it open for now
<ochosi> but we try a "two strikes, and you're flagged" model (or X strikes, if ppl have good reasons that 2 is not ok)
<ochosi> so when somebody sends inappropriate or offtopic stuff ÃÂ  la "Install LibreOffice by default" to the ML
<ochosi> or something that is a bugreport, or a support request
<knome> ( ^ technically, set the moderation flag for the email address so further mails from that person needs moderation)
<ochosi> a moderator of the list gets in touch with the "offender" directly and personally
<ochosi> if the person ignores that and offends again, he/she gets flagged
<ochosi> good, i don't have to explain flagging anymore, thanks knome :)
<knome> ( ^ messages should also be sent CC to xubuntu-devel-owner@lists.ubuntu.com, so other moderators know it's been dealt with)
<ochosi> so yeah, that'd be the proposal, and if everyone can live with it, i'd say we try that for at least a month
<ochosi> generally, this would be a very dynamic policy anway though
<ochosi> if there's no offtopic stuff, there's nothing to moderate
<elfy> but only admins can flag - is that right?
<bluesabre> sounds reasonable to me
<knome> and finally, if you aren't sure, ask other moderators
<ochosi> if the offtopic stuff takes over, we flag lots of people
<knome> elfy, only owners can flag, that's me and pleia2 atm
<ochosi> knome: care to list the moderators, so that everyone knows?
<knome> owners are (can set flags): knome, pleia2
<knome> moderators are: elfy, unit193, bluesabre (+owners)
<pleia2> I'd also appreciate discussion about this, if someone thinks someone is borderline, let me and knome know, I have a tendancy to give folks reams of rope to hang themselves with :)
<knome> sending a mail to xubuntu-devel-owner@lists ... sends a mail to everybody in those two groups.
<knome> i'm the bad cop, pleia2 is the good cop
<elfy> and I have a tendency to use very short rope - having other things to do than baby people
<pleia2> hehe
<knome> but i'll promise to try to be as prompt as possible if people request moderation flags
<knome> also,
<elfy> if we're going to be going - ooh shall we, not sure,, mmm
<knome> we should set a policy...
<Unit193> elfy: I tend to just ignore, because it's "Ubuntu, so gotta give so much rope you lose sight of them."
<elfy> then I don't want to be involved in that at all
<knome> when moderator X sends the mail and CC's other owners
<knome> the same moderator should take care of noticing the second strike
<knome> (if at all possible)
<ochosi> i'd personally prefer if we wouldn't vote on this again, cause it slows things down, if the owners and moderators of the list are ok with this proposal, i'd like to put it in effect now/today
<knome> and i guess once that happens and anybody notices that, send another mail to -owner
<knome> so other moderators know that's it's going to happen, and we owners can act accordingly and add the flag
<ochosi> if needed, we can document this, i just wanna "get on with it!" and talk about other things :)
<knome> if everybody is happy with the proposal, i can document it under Processes in the wiki today
<ochosi> sweet, thanks knome 
<ochosi> (i hoped you'd say that ;))
<knome> but of course! ;)
<ochosi> pleia2: +1/0/-1? :)
<ochosi> moderators?
 * elfy can see this getting completely wishy washy
<bluesabre> +1
<knome> if we need to flag loads of people, we can always reassess the need for full moderation.
<ochosi> exactly
<Unit193> Policy++
<elfy> I'll just in whichever way gets this moving 
<knome> yeah, i can +1 this one as well, but i'll want one from pleia2 too, because this is clearly more work for *owners* then the previous proposal.
<ochosi> elfy: well there's only one obvious way to get this moving... ;)
<pleia2> should be ok
<elfy> +0
<elfy> I'll sit on the fence then ;)
<ochosi> heh
<pleia2> we can reassess if it's annoying/awful :)
<ochosi> fine
<ochosi> #info The mailinglist will get moderated on a per-offender basis, "two strikes and you're flagged".
<knome> #action knome to describe the -devel ML moderation policy to Processes in the wiki
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to describe the -devel ML moderation policy to Processes in the wiki
<ochosi> #action knome will document the new moderation policy against offenders on the wiki
<meetingology> ACTION: knome will document the new moderation policy against offenders on the wiki
<ochosi> garr
<ochosi> :)
<knome> #undo
<ochosi> thanks
<knome> hmm, only chair can undo
<ochosi> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: ACTION
<ochosi> ok, let's move on
<ochosi> #subtopic Trello
<ochosi> as it wasnt announced, i thought we could quickly talk about it
<ochosi> there's a big trello board now that elfy set up
<ochosi> bluesabre also used it already
<ochosi> elfy: wanna do a few #infos?
<ochosi> so my proposal with this one is that we try it out
<ochosi> it can't really be much worse than the launchpad blueprints in terms of up-to-dateness
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> try it for one cycle and then re-assess how it helped us and what would be needed for it to work better
<ochosi> #info Unit193 set up a Trello bot for interaction with the board from within IRC.
<knome> does that need a trello account?
<elfy> unfortunately yes
<knome> or how's the interaction done
<ochosi> Unit193: further infos on that? will it always reside in a different channel? how does it work?
<elfy> there's currently 5 team members not there - knome, skellat, michah, lionel and jackson
<elfy> 2 of those are not about for sure anyway
<ochosi> has anyone talked to skellat lately? how long is he MIA?
 * knome has been slacking
<knome> ochosi, probably not getting back very son
<knome> *soon
<elfy> ochosi: from what I saw - another cycle
<ochosi> actually micah mentioned that he got promoted at work, so he's busier than before
<elfy> which begs the question - if missing for 2 cycles
<ochosi> don't wanna jump to conclusions, but i don't think he (=micahg) will be around much during U
<ochosi> elfy: you mean wrt team membership status?
<elfy> ochosi: I got that impression
<elfy> ochosi: yea
<ochosi> right, iirc knome did something before leaving me this moldy chair that ii'm currently residing on
<ochosi> something with respect to team membership running out if there are no contributions for X cycles
<knome> ochosi, whatever you do, don't smell it!
<knome> i haven't done very strict cleaning.
<ochosi> but i don't remember whether the policy was put into place or just thought about
<elfy> "Anyone with no contributions for more than a complete cycle (6 months) should deactivate themself from the team as well as all subteams and reapply if/when they are willing to rejoin. "
<knome> i've asked some people whether they think they will continue contributing
<elfy> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/StrategyDocument#Xubuntu_Team
<knome> by that definition, skellat and mr_pouit should be probably dropped.
<ochosi> i think mr_pouit did one upload of shimmer-themes in the trusty cycle
<ochosi> depends now on what you count as "contributing"
<knome> otoh, lionel *has* popped up now and then (and has said that since he really can't follow IRC, it's hard to follow the development generally)
<knome> so it all depends how strictly you want to force that rule
<ochosi> but yeah, i think it's fair that without contributions, you lose your voting rights for the time being
<knome> i still think it's a good idea to keep that in place.
<elfy> knome: he said that in the m/l discussion I think
<knome> ochosi, that's the reason why it is there in the first place
<knome> also if n people are absent, it gets harder and harder to get a quorum
<knome> since they are never around
<ochosi> yup
<knome> well, "never"
<ochosi> i think we should ask a few ppl to seize their voting rights then
<ochosi> just have to take the time to write understanding appreciative emails with the right tone i guess...
<knome> i'd prefer if the people deactivated themself
<elfy> knome: +1
<ochosi> yeah, but we still have to ask them to do it
<knome> sure
 * ochosi wasn't suggesting anything else
<knome> no, no
<knome> though if we ask them, and they don't answer in six months...
<Unit193> ochosi: It's in read only mode, it's in a different channel as it's not been invited in one of the 'official' channels.
<ochosi> Unit193: i know, i meant: #info a few infos plz ;)
 * elfy wishes he'd not taken this trello thing offtopic lol
<ochosi> before we move on, cause trello seems to be going away as a topic atm...
<knome> ochosi, maybe point out that "ex" team members will most probably get their membership back much quicker than new developers
<ochosi> elfy: yeah...
<ochosi> knome: yeah, thought of that
<ochosi> ok, anything else ppl wanna talk about wrt Trello?
<elfy> #info Those in -team not yet on the trello access list to get account so they can be added
<knome> ochosi, and that it's not really about excluding them, mostly for practical reasons (because that's how it is)
<knome> #action knome to create a Trello account
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to create a Trello account
<Unit193> ochosi: Like?
<ochosi> #info Whoever has questions to Trello can get in touch with elfy.
<elfy> can you undo that please
<ochosi> Unit193: what did you plan/think the bot would be used for? etc.
<knome> elfy, why does Trello start with T and end with o?
<ochosi> elfy: awwwwh :)
<ochosi> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: INFO
<elfy> then add slickymaster to it - he knows as much as me :)
<knome> slickymaster, why does Trello start with T and end with o?
<ochosi> well i think somebody should be the "trello contact", even if i don't think there'll ever be questions
<elfy> you can also add the other admin - which is ochosi :p
<knome> :P
<Unit193> ochosi: If it's useful, how you want, etc.  I like IRC, so this makes sense to me.  If we want to get more from it, we can.
<elfy> ochosi: ok then 
<ochosi> meh, knome made me admin on so many things already...
<elfy> pleia2 uses it as well 
<ochosi> anyway, let's carry on if there are no further #infos
<elfy> so there are a few of us
<elfy> #info Whoever has questions to Trello can get in touch with elfy.
<ochosi> #subtopic Meeting times during the U cycle
<ochosi> righty, i quickly wanted to bring that up
<knome> ochosi, did that come as a surprise to you? :P
<ochosi> conveniently the person who will hold the next meeting isnt here tonight :p
<knome> skip it then
 * ochosi looks at slickymaster 
<knome> and select the next one from the list
<knome> this needs to be dynamic:)
<ochosi> heh
<elfy> or get them to do it tomorrow
<ochosi> well i also didn't announce the next meeting on the day of the previous meeting
<knome> or call them in their phone!
 * knome hides
<ochosi> don't think that's a huge problem
<knome> then just info that person X does it ;)
<ochosi> just wanted to give ppl another chance to object (since there were no comments made on it on the ML)
<knome> cycling chairs and times is a great idea.
<bluesabre> +1
<ochosi> #action slickymaster to announce the next meeting time ASAP
<meetingology> ACTION: slickymaster to announce the next meeting time ASAP
<elfy> though I did just have a thought about this cycling thing - 75% of the leads are EU of some sort :)
<ochosi> after that it'll be elfy's turn i think
<elfy> ochosi: you forget -dev :)
<ochosi> elfy: yeah, but that hasn't been voted on yet ;)
<knome> elfy, 100% of XPL was EU the last time, wasn't a problem then...
<ochosi> we also skipped our to-be Debian Liaison
<elfy> ochosi: indeed - but it will have been by the time it gets to me :p
<ochosi> sure, so most likely bluesabre and then elfy 
<elfy> not that I *really* mind I add 
<ochosi> do we need a list for that or will we make it clear at the end of every meeting who chairs the next one?
<knome> who's gonna update the wiki for the new policy?
<ochosi> the one who asks?
<knome> ochosi, the list could be in the meetings page comments
<ochosi> :)
<elfy> knome: whoever is in there doing the m/l stuff?
<knome> :P
 * knome sighs
<elfy> lol
<ochosi> knome: in due time, we'll create a wiki-team for you ;)
<knome> #action knome updates the Processes page for the new meeting chair/scheduling policy
<meetingology> ACTION: knome updates the Processes page for the new meeting chair/scheduling policy
<elfy> +1 to having list in meeting page comments
<ochosi> thanks knome!
<knome> #Action knome adds a list of cycling chairs in the Meetings page
<meetingology> ACTION: knome adds a list of cycling chairs in the Meetings page
<ochosi> ok, any other things we wanna discuss?
 * ochosi is through with his topics for tonight
<elfy> oh yea 
<ochosi> ah right
<ochosi> there's one left on the meeting page :D
<ochosi> sorry elfy 
<elfy> I only just remembered
<ochosi> #subtopic Route testing requirements through xubuntu-qa
<ochosi> elfy: you got the floor
<knome> elfy, show us your best moves
<elfy> so - simple enough - if you want something testing - talk to me
<elfy> and 
<elfy> before you talk to me - you can check on trello calendar to see when we can fit things in :)
<bluesabre> :)
<elfy> please don't let me wake up to testing calls on the mailing list - I have to keep cleaning tea of the monitor ;)
<ochosi> hehe
<bluesabre> yeah, I'll behave
<ochosi> elfy: good you're not drinking substances that are harder to clean off though ;)
<elfy> bluesabre: well - you know where the calendar is :)
<elfy> ochosi: lol
<ochosi> any #infos for that?
<knome> ochosi, like oil?
<elfy> #info Talk to QA for testing requirements
<Unit193> elfy: OK, so contact you if/when for -core?
<ochosi> also, that sounded more like an announcement than a discussion
<elfy> #info Check Trello calendar before talking to QA
<ochosi> or is it just my ears... :>
<elfy> ochosi: no - it's the time :)
<ochosi> heh
<elfy> if people want to try and persuade me that they can call for testing at any time - they are welcome to try :)
<elfy> Unit193: mmm - as you are in the QA team I'd hope you'd be able to see when we've got space :D
<ochosi> righty, anything else to "discuss"? :}
<elfy> ochosi: we can discuss it if you want - but I'm pretty much sat here with feet in concrete 
<ochosi> nah, i'm fine with this
<elfy> :)
<ochosi> other topics/discussions?
<elfy> none from me
<bluesabre> good here
<ochosi> ok, in that case, thanks everyone!
<ochosi> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon May 26 21:01:24 2014 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-05-26-20.01.moin.txt
<Unit193> ochosi: Danke.
<elfy> ty ochosi 
<ochosi> yw
<ochosi> minutes are up (thanks for this painless process lderan and knome!)
<elfy> we missed an action in the m/l discussion :p
<elfy> no action to mail the list to say what was going to happen lol
<knome> i guess i can do that...
<ochosi> right :)
<ochosi> thanks
<elfy> night all 
<Unit193> ochosi: So, what's the plan for trellobot?
<ochosi> well, i would wanna ask you
<ochosi> personally i don't know
<ochosi> i'd say we add it here
<ochosi> and if it gets too spammy, we move it to another channel
<Unit193> Right, if you didn't see I made the help command PM the user (even if asked in channel.)
<knome> ochosi, was the cycling alphabetical by team name?
<ochosi> knome: yeah
<ochosi> well, actually by team lead role title :)
<knome> aha
<ochosi> but it doesn't matter as for now it was the same
<ochosi> since we have teams>roles, i think we should probably switch to team name
<knome> ochosi, so:
<knome> XPL, art, debian, doc, marketing, qa, release (?), technical, website
<ochosi> sounds good to me
<ochosi> actually, i'm wondering whether we should remove the xfce4 liaison post from the leaders page
<ochosi> i can't see anyone doing that again anytime soon
<knome> we can do that if you feel like it
<ochosi> i think it was mostly introduced for JPohlmann
<knome> probably yeah
<knome> processes + meetings should be fine now
<ochosi> nice
<ochosi> that was fast
<knome> ochosi, mail on -devel about moderation
<Unit193> ochosi: So, there you go, xubutrello.
<bluesabre> knome: care to elevate these two as well?
<bluesabre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/menulibre/+bug/1323405
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1323405 in menulibre (Ubuntu) "[SRU] Please backport menulibre-2.0.4 to trusty" [Undecided,New]
<bluesabre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-power-manager/+bug/1323367
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1323367 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu) "Please upload xfce4-power-manager 1.2.0-3ubuntu5 to utopic" [Undecided,New]
<bluesabre> Logan_, feeling uploady? :)
<knome> bluesabre, left you some words
<bluesabre> thanks knome!
<knome> bluesabre, np
<knome> bluesabre, all deserved
<Logan_> bluesabre: always
<bluesabre> hey Logan_
<ochosi> hi Logan_ 
<bluesabre> so, we have a few things that need to be uploaded...
<bluesabre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/menulibre/+bug/1323405 to trusty-proposed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1323405 in menulibre (Ubuntu) "[SRU] Please backport menulibre-2.0.4 to trusty" [Undecided,New]
<bluesabre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-power-manager/+bug/1323367 to utopic
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1323367 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu) "Please upload xfce4-power-manager 1.2.0-3ubuntu5 to utopic" [Undecided,New]
<ochosi> that one is important ^
<ochosi> critical bugfix
<bluesabre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-locker-settings/+bug/1323368 to utopic
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1323368 in light-locker-settings (Ubuntu) "Please upload light-locker-settings 1.2.1-0ubuntu2 to utopic" [Critical,New]
<Logan_> dear lord
<ochosi> yeah, that one too
<bluesabre> ^^ these two go together since they are two components of the same bugfix
<Logan_> okay so
<Logan_> uhhhh
<ochosi> huhu, someone's happy here :)
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> I'd suggest not looking at the menulibre one first
<bluesabre> the other two are quite simpler
<bluesabre> menulibre is a backport from utopic
<sergio-br2> ochosi?
<sergio-br2> I think you talked to me, sorry for the delay
<sergio-br2> :)
<ochosi> hey sergio-br2 
<ochosi> no worries
<sergio-br2> i saw the updates
<ochosi> yup, mostly wanted to ask how it's going and what the ETA was on the webapps branch
<ochosi> also pulled in a few more icons from upstream
<sergio-br2> well, slow, but it's going
<ochosi> and got in touch with daniel again, he pulled a lot upstream btw
<sergio-br2> wow, a lot of
<sergio-br2> i'm seeing
<sergio-br2> ah, r1223
<sergio-br2> cool
<ochosi> also would like to pull in the new shotwell icon
<sergio-br2> are there other sizes?
<sergio-br2> before i forget it, could you touch that Liviu, to create a trusty version of the ppa?
<sergio-br2> and other thing, this number in the package does not help very much... 13.10.3 > 13.10~git[...]
<sergio-br2> i have to force and lock in synaptic, to install
<ochosi> hm, i think we also have another daily icon theme repo with saner versioning
<ochosi> bluesabre: ^ ?
<bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/~shimmerproject/+archive/daily
<sergio-br2> nahh, ok
<sergio-br2> great, thanks
<bluesabre> YYYYMMDDHHMM
<sergio-br2> yeah, better to upgrade :)
#xubuntu-devel 2014-05-27
<sergio-br2> i installed trusty here, yesterday. Congratulations for all team for this amazing version!
<ochosi> thanks :)
<sergio-br2> the shotwell icon is missing in 22, 24 and 24
<sergio-br2> *32
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> not too bad actually
<ochosi> i drew the ubiquity icon in 4 sizes very quick now
<ochosi> we can use the existing shotwell icons in our theme and just change parts of it
<ochosi> the calendar icons also need a cleanup at some point
<ochosi> and what annoys me a bit is the huge amount of duplication/uncertainty between status/panel/notifications
<sergio-br2> when i plug my laptop to AC, battery icon does not change
<sergio-br2> is it related to the icons? or other thing?
<ochosi> sergio-br2: screenshot plz
<sergio-br2> hum, it works
<sergio-br2> but only if my laptop is charging, then there is the right icon
<ochosi> so when does it *not* work?
<sergio-br2> if it is with 95% or higher, then the icon is not that charging/AC icon, it has that battery icon
<ochosi> oddd
<ochosi> luckily we'll have something better next cycle...
<sergio-br2> like this: http://en.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-27052014-024848.php
<ochosi> but it is connected/charging?
<sergio-br2> that the point
<ochosi> hmm, but then
<ochosi> could you quickly open the power-manager preferences
<ochosi> and then enable the trayicon there
<ochosi> it's in the first tab
<ochosi> just to see whether that shows the correct icon
<sergio-br2> higher than 95%, my battery does not charge. It charge to 100% only if it has less than 95 %
<ochosi> btw, the dialog-warning icon in upstream is also much nicer...
<ochosi> but it's lacking more sizes than it has
<sergio-br2> ochosi, take a look: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-27052014-032652.php
<ochosi> then it's probably a bug in upower
<ochosi> so nothing we can do about it
<sergio-br2> hum dialog-warning is a yellow triangle right?
<ochosi> yup
<sergio-br2> better
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> but also only available in 48px and 64px
<sergio-br2> red is like stop, danger, not warning
<sergio-br2> there are other icons different too
<sergio-br2> apt-daemon-*
<ochosi> yes, but also those are only available in very few sizes...
<sergio-br2> maybe he will do other sizes?
<sergio-br2> well, this can be a to do list for us
<sergio-br2> i'm very slow, doing other stuff here. I think when i return to brazil, in july, i will have more time
<sergio-br2> until 14.04.1 we can do all these things
<ochosi> yup, maybe/hopefully
<ochosi> i don't really think he will do any other sizes
<ochosi> he only does what he needs for eOS
<ochosi> whatever he's not sure about, he doesn't touch
<ochosi> (or whatever he never sees in eOS)
<ochosi> sergio-br2: i think the warning thing i like enough to quickly do the other sizes...
<sergio-br2> you do? ok
<ochosi> yeah, the 24/22 is already done
<ochosi> humm, only 128px missing now
<ochosi> sergio-br2: if you wanna do that one ^, i'll leave it for you and push what i got now
<ochosi> don't think i have the energy to do another size now
<ochosi> but 16,22,24 and 32 are done
<sergio-br2> ok
<sergio-br2> push then
<ochosi> ah, nvm, i'm half-done with the 128px version
<ochosi> you can focus on other stuff...
<ochosi> sergio-br2: done. i almost *wanna* see a warning dialog now :)
<sergio-br2> working in it
<ochosi> alrighty, have fun, i gotta get some sleep
<sergio-br2> hum
<sergio-br2> gonna sleep to
<sergio-br2> bye!
<Logan_> bluesabre: sorry, I'll look at those bugs now
<Logan_> got sidetracked
<Logan_> I don't trust bots made by Unit193 
<Unit193> >_>
<Unit193> Logan_: Only one of them is here, all the others are elsewhere, don't worry.
<Logan_> good :P
<Logan_> bluesabre: ping me when you're around
<ochosi> morning everyone
<Unit193> Howdy.
<slickymasterWork> knome: I don't have a clue why Trello starts with a 'T' and ends with an 'o', other than the fact that is the right way to spell the word :P
<knome> :P
<slickymasterWork> and a good afternoon knome 
<ochosi> hey slickymasterWork 
<slickymasterWork> hi ochosi, morning
<knome> hey slickymasterWork, ochosi 
<ochosi> slickymasterWork: just a small reminder, please set the time for the next meeting asap
<slickymasterWork> ochosi, was going to poke you on that. What are your thoughts regarding the amount of time between meetings. weekly baseed?
<knome> slickymasterWork, just schedule something for *next week*
<knome> week 23 that is
<knome> in this case, it might practically mean there's more than a week between
<qwebirc495410> sorry ochosi, lost connectivity
<knome> 12:45  knome: slickymasterWork, just schedule something for *next week*
<knome> 12:45  knome: week 23 that is
<knome> 12:46  knome: in this case, it might practically mean there's more than a week  between
<ochosi> sure, no problem slicky .)
<ochosi> +1 on that ^
<slickymasterWork> okay guys, let me just check my schedule regarding my kid next week and I'll do it
<ochosi> sure sure, no rush
<slickymasterWork> knome, you do realize that this means that I'll be poking this weekend asking for some tutoring 
<ochosi> just something we wanna get done today or tomorrow sometime
<knome> slickymasterWork, no problem.
<slickymasterWork> it will be done today, I just have to be in touch with is mother 
<slickymasterWork> the announcement is to be made in the ML or the Meetings page?
<slickymasterWork> ochosi: ^^^
<ochosi> slickymasterWork: ideally both
<slickymasterWork> ok, both it will then
<bluesabre> hey Logan_, what's up?
<slickymasterWork> ochosi: next meeting is scheduled to June 3rd, 20:00 UTC
<ochosi> okey, ty
<ochosi> i presume 20utc is a time that works fine for you?
<ochosi> cause you can schedule the meeting *whenever* you want
<slickymasterWork> knome: ^^^ can you please confirm that I add this in the proper place at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<ochosi> (that's actually one of the reasons for cycling chairs)
<slickymasterWork> that's the best time for me, I'll be home without the connectivity constraints I have here at work
<ochosi> ok gerat
<ochosi> great
<ochosi> only asked cause you weren't here last night (same time)
<slickymasterWork> yeah, but yesterday was due to the fact that I was with my kid, which I won't be next Tuesday
<ochosi> sure
<knome> slickymasterWork, when you go to the editing mode, you should always have two things there
<knome> "Next meeting isn't scheduled yet."
<knome> and the "The next Xubuntu..."
<knome> just uncomment/comment the appropriate one
<knome> and change the URL and the link text
<knome> otherwise looks good.
<slickymasterWork> knome, I haven't done that though :P
<slickymasterWork> I just went ahead and replaced the "Next meeting isn't scheduled yet. with The next Xubuntu Community meeting will take place at 20:00 UTC on Tuesday, June 3rd.
<slickymasterWork> I'll have to roll it back
<slickymasterWork> knome: think it's fixed as intended now
<knome> looks good to me :)
<slickymasterWork> can you confirm, please
<knome> yep
<slickymasterWork> I left the "Next meeting isn't scheduled yet" commented
<knome> yep, that's good
<knome> that way it's less work to show that
<slickymasterWork> yes
<knome> meeting is in the calendar now
<qwebirc817052> thanks knome 
<knome> you're welcome david
<qwebirc817052> :)
<knome> bad connectivity today?
<slickymasterWork> the usual knome 
<slickymasterWork> a lousy one
<knome> hehe
<slickymasterWork> I'm always with a permanent ttl above my head like a Damocles sword
<knome> so you can't access ssh from work?
<slickymasterWork> no, no chances
<slickymasterWork> I only can communicate through port 80 
<slickymasterWork> to the exterior that is
<knome> mmh
<slickymasterWork> I can use other ports within out intranet
<slickymasterWork> to a several servers
<brainwash> ochosi: add bug 1024482 to the trusty blueprint or just to the utopic one?
<ubottu> bug 1024482 in unity-greeter (Ubuntu) "Mouse cursor theme does not change from default after login" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1024482
<brainwash> it's about the missing busy cursor on the root background
<brainwash> I assume that we want this to be fixed in trusty too, many people actually complain about the missing busy cursor
<brainwash> just need to figure out why firefox/thunderbird don't trigger it, most other apps do
<brainwash> bluesabre: shouldn't lightdm-gtk-greeter depend on lightdm?
<elfy> brainwash: so is anyone actually reporting that recently for us?
<elfy> or is it really that old - and Ubuntu
<elfy> affecting 9 people in 2 years ...
<brainwash> the report was not targeting the busy cursor problem in xubuntu
<elfy> and is anyone reporting it for Xubuntu is what I'm saying?
<elfy> I've not seen anything
<brainwash> bug 1323745
<ubottu> bug 1323745 in xfce4-panel (Ubuntu) "Xubuntu: No startup notifications" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1323745
<brainwash> :P
<elfy> 1 person
<elfy> if we put every Xubuntu bug on the blueprint it becomes completely pointless
<brainwash> well, there is some talk about it on ubuntuforums, askubuntu, xfce forum,..
<brainwash> we got a fix for it already
<elfy> but whatever - fill the blueprint with 100's and 100's of bugs and in 4 months 3 weeks - it'll be still full of 100's and 100's of bugs
<brainwash> linking it to the blueprint just helps to actually get the fix in (I hope)
<elfy> whatever - nothing to do with me 
<brainwash> it's not like I'm adding tons of reports to the blueprint :/
<elfy> no I know you aren't :)
<elfy> I just really wonder about the point in even bothering with a report from 1 person
<elfy> the ones that should be looked at earlier are ones like xfpm/sound indicator - that we release with and make us look ridiculous
<brainwash> the new filed report might only affect 1 person as of now, but the issue has been reported on forums and the debian bug tracker
<brainwash> well, it's just a spinning cursor after all.. nothing of importance :)
<elfy> I just fail to see what a debian bug has to do with us :)
<elfy> that is Xubuntu - not people in Xubuntu team :)
<elfy> lol 
<brainwash> just mentioned it to show that it's a common problem
<elfy> lol
<brainwash> it affects you and me
<elfy> sorry brainwash :)
<elfy> it doesn't affect me :)
<brainwash> but you can confirm it
<brainwash> like every other xubuntu user can
<elfy> no I can't 
<brainwash> you see a spinning cursor when you launch some application?
<knome> elfy, you mean you don't consider it a bug, or you see the "working" cursor?
<elfy> I don't notice this behaviour - can't confirm it 
<knome> i think it might be a design decision
<elfy> the bug report isn't particularly descriptive 
<elfy> do you mean like the 'spinning cursor' you see when you might for instance mount a partition in thunar?
<brainwash> no, startup notification
<elfy> means nothing to me 
<brainwash> you start some app and the busy/spinning/working cursor appears until the app is finally loaded
<elfy> oh that
<brainwash> a visual feedback
<elfy> yea don't see that - not that worried about it either :p
<brainwash> :)
<brainwash> just want to know if it's worth to fix this in our LTS release
<elfy> I'd certainly not be worried enough to go looking for a bug for it - nor report it 
<elfy> ask the XPL :p
<brainwash> that's what I did :D
<elfy> I was just saying that I'd not put it on the blueprint :)
<elfy> as it's not a Xubuntu thing - we might be affected by it 
<elfy> anyway - whatever - that being something else I said :)
<ali1234> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10630 you probably want to fix this one first
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10630 in General "keyboard settings panel ignores state of "startup-notification" key when resetting to defaults." [Normal,New]
<ali1234> because without it, startup notification won't work unless the user turns it off and then on again for every launcher
<ali1234> note i attached a patch to fix that... several months ago
<brainwash> right, maybe we could apply it downstream
<brainwash> there is also more stuff broken in libxfce4ui
<brainwash> kb shortcut related
<ochosi> evening
<ochosi> brainwash: lagging behind on the greeter quite a bit currently in terms of merges etc, too busy with other stuff. but i/we will get to it
<ochosi> as 1.8.5 still hasn't landed in trusty yet, i'm not sure i wanna do another (tiring) effort of backporting a single small patch/fix
<ochosi> but i won't veto it, if bluesabre feels like it
<brainwash> maybe with other potential fixes somewhat later, 1.8.6
<brainwash> we got plenty of time left with 14.04 :)
<brainwash> do you have any idea, why the greeter package does not depend on lightdm?
<ochosi> hm, not really
<ochosi> the original packaging wasnt done by us, we just kept what was there
<ochosi> i never saw a need for it i guess
<brainwash> true, if no one complains, then there is nothing to fix :)
<ochosi> yeah, if there are problems that arise from it, we'll deal with it
<Unit193> forestpiskie: OK, so added in that feature ---v
<Unit193> xubutrello: due soon
<xubutrello>   ->  1. Suite B Call (id: 15) due: 2014-06-09 11:00:00 UTC from list: To Do 14.10
<ochosi> btw, i never thought about this, but when we get rid of indicator-power, we won't have any battery status in the greeter/lockscreen anymore
<ochosi> bluesabre: ^
<ochosi> unless we add something builtin ourselves
<bluesabre> shouldn't be so hard to implement
<bluesabre> there's a file that keeps track of battery stats and such, right?
<ochosi> probably not so hard, but kinda duplication of effort
<brainwash> I was about to implement this, because the indicator support was broken in the greeter :)
<ochosi> well go ahead and do it now then ;)
<bluesabre> +1
<ochosi> frankly, i'm not sure we really want/need indicators in the greeter
<brainwash> but why do you want to remove -power?
<ochosi> they seem to be a source of myriad problems
<bluesabre> I'll start merging things soon
<ochosi> because we have an xfpm battery plugin for the panel now
<ochosi> or: we will have one in the next release
<bluesabre> cool
<bluesabre> so now we just have to add notification-panel support
<bluesabre> more work!
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> nope
<ochosi> it's not a systray icon anymore
<bluesabre> oh
<bluesabre> what is it now?
<ochosi> it's a regular plugin that you can add/remove
<bluesabre> oh
<ochosi> and place anywhere on the panel
<brainwash> but there is already a battery panel plugin or?
<bluesabre> eh
<ochosi> yes, but this one is integrated with xfpm
<ochosi> makes much more sense
<bluesabre> that makes it less accessible for !xfce
<ochosi> yeah, but lubuntu is going to qt
<Unit193> ochosi: I'm proposing the merge of core now, want to be a reviewer?
<ochosi> Unit193: i can be
<brainwash> mmh, once unity7 is outdated what will happen with the current indicator stack?
<ochosi> bluesabre: not sure !xfce uses xfpm, we'll wait for the outcry because of the loss of systray icon i guess
<ochosi> yeah, who knows what'll happen to it
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> nobody in fact
<ochosi> which is why i want us to get as independent from it as we can
<ochosi> will be hard to provide real alternatives to indicator-application though
<bluesabre> partly depends on what ubuntu wants to do with core applications
<bluesabre> most of what ubuntu depends on is gnome stuff
<bluesabre> which, most sane people want to escape, but they really are the best available tools
<bluesabre> since everything else starts with k
<bluesabre> and tend to invite friends
<ochosi> yeah, i guess
<ochosi> i think ubuntu will create/use its own core ap stack
<ochosi> app
<ochosi> they're already trying the "convergence of desktop and mobile apps"
<bluesabre> yeah
<Unit193> Meh, lp-propose doesn't work. :/
<bluesabre> honestly, the converged apps are starting to look really nice
<bluesabre> and I'll probably pick up an ubuntu phone once they're available
<ali1234> the next big unity stack change will be the move to Qt
<ochosi> yeah, which will mean no more custom gtk3 hacks i guess
<ochosi> and plain upstream gtk3 madness :)
<bluesabre> yup
<bluesabre> brace yourselves ;)
<ali1234> maybe we should just give up on Gtk and join lxqt project
<ali1234> port everything to Qt
 * ochosi senses duplication of effort
<ali1234> gtk doesn't seem to be useful or relevant any more
<brainwash> or join forces with the MATE project :)
<ochosi> we can always just use any other desktop instead, but luckily the world isn't falling apart just yet
<ochosi> ali1234: well unity quickly went for qt, i think also because of its usability in the mobile space, or why would you say gtk isn't relevant anymore?
<ali1234> i say it because gtk seems to only exist for the benefit of gnome now
<ochosi> also, i use gtk every day and i get my stuff done with it :)
<ochosi> actually they're starting to take elementary seriously
<ochosi> partly also though, because their platforms look very similar :D
<ali1234> no, they're not. what is actually happening is elementary is becoming more and more like gnome shell in every release
<ochosi> well, "every release" is easy to say when there has only been one ;)
<bluesabre> (2)
<ochosi> luna and?
<bluesabre> jupiter
<ochosi> ah right
<ochosi> i forgot
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> i think it'd be easier to complain in #gtk about all of this if xfce were already gtk3
<ochosi> maybe we're better off for now with it not being gtk3 yet, but without being there, chances of not being heard are even lower
<brainwash> isn't it too late for this anyway? gtk3 is pretty old already, why would they listen to Xfce?
<ochosi> well history tells you that they hardly ever did
<ochosi> i have no idea how much xfce devs tried to take influence
<brainwash> zero?
<ochosi> ofourdan is working at red hat as far as i know, so no idea why that never helped :)
<ochosi> brainwash: i really don't know
<brainwash> maybe he got brainwashed by LP
<bluesabre> you know all about that
<ali1234> in fact unity didn't quickly go for qt... they had a qt port which they abandoned once already
<bluesabre> yup
<ochosi> right, they went for qt several times :)
 * ochosi is saying it all wrong tonight
<ali1234> in my opinion xfce has bigger problems that gtk2 vs gtk3... the panel is in bad shape for one
<ali1234> the plugin system has serious problems with events
<ochosi> there are many places where bugs should be fixed in xfce
<ochosi> too many unmaintained components
<ochosi> Unit193: while i'm generally +1 on the core MR, didn't you want to organize testing/feedback with elfy?
<Unit193> ochosi: It'd be easier to do that after it's merged, I think that was the idea at least.
<ochosi> ali1234: i think the only way you can effectively conquer that problem is by becoming a maintainer of some component and start fixing it up
<ochosi> doesn't have to be xfwm4, which generally is running okay
<Unit193> ochosi: The xubuntu-core task can't be created until it's actually part of the archive, so you have to pretend.
<ochosi> as i said, there are so many unmaintained projects there...
<ali1234> the problems with panel run deeper than that... they are design flaws
<ochosi> heh, that you'll have to discuss with NSchermer
<ochosi> i remember there being a long fight on the ML between him and brian about the plugin system when nick rewrote the panel
<ali1234> these are big problems and it's going to be xfce 5 if i start trying to fix them
<bluesabre> at this point, anything might land for xfce 4.12
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> hehe, +1
<ochosi> Unit193: wasn't there an iso already?
<ali1234> no, really. it would break all existing plugins
<bluesabre> ah
<ochosi> then do it with the gtk3 port
<ochosi> that will also break all existing plugins
<Unit193> ochosi: Created using the hacky setup, but merge can wait for approval (and merged later) until tomorrow.  I see that as the easiest way to test, but yeah elfy may disagree.
<ochosi> Unit193: ok, then if you don't mind, let's discuss it with elfy tomorrow
<Unit193> Yep, sounded like a good idea.  (Wasn't trying to cut out testing, just that testing comes after it's in. :P )
<ochosi> hehe sure
<ochosi> i wasn't suggesting that
<ochosi> i just wanted to know where we're heading
#xubuntu-devel 2014-05-28
<sergio-br2> ochosi, almost done webapps
<ochosi> sergio-br2: nice!
<sergio-br2> i think it's missing only gmail
<ochosi> very much looking forward to it
<sergio-br2> in 16 px, what the standard? icon use all the 16x16 px area, or 15x15 ?
<sergio-br2> facebook use 16x16, others 15x15
<ochosi> depends a bit
<ochosi> the 16x16 icons should just use what works best
<ochosi> they're so constrained, sometimes it's almost impossible to do 16x16
<ochosi> looks great so far
<ochosi> the 16px gcal icon is a bit off to the right (the font)
<ochosi> with that one you could go 15x15
<sergio-br2> open it with inkscape, it's right
<ochosi> i know, i did ;)
<sergio-br2> weird
<ochosi> actually the png export looks better
<ochosi> so just keep it then
<sergio-br2> each app in linux has it own svg implementation... why not just one?
<sergio-br2> libreoffice, inkscape, eog, ristreto...
<ochosi> i think there is a libsvg that ristretto uses
<sergio-br2> common to eog?
<ochosi> no idea what eog uses
<ochosi> night everyone!
<sergio-br2> night
<elfy> ochosi: -release will have you in it in ~48 hours
<ochosi> elfy: that sounds like a threat..?
<knome> ochosi, you should extend elfy's and bluesabre's membership
<elfy> not at all - just the end result of the only admin on the team not doing things :p
<ochosi> aha aha, elfy's talking in riddles again :)
<elfy> ochosi: kind of - the previous attempts at making it obvious - like "ochosi - bluesabre and I will be expring from -release" didn't work :p
<ochosi> aha, i guess i didn't notice
<ochosi> or i thought knome had still taken care of it
<ochosi> gotta run
<ochosi> bbl
<knome> of course not, i'm not an admin (or anything) there
<elfy> you would of in 48 hours - you should then get a elfy has expired message
<ochosi> LP is so slooooow
<knome> and i did notice you about that
<knome> ...
<knome> i extended the memberships for some while already
<knome> to give some breathing space
<elfy> so many things to juggle 
<knome> yeah
<knome> i threw all of the 30 balls at ochosi
<knome> at the same time..
<elfy> ha ha ha 
<elfy> bit like playing 52 card pickup then
<knome> some of them didn't have a very ballistic course..
<knome> also known as "the janitor"
<elfy> heh
<ochosi> elfy: you've been extended
<ochosi> i also extended bluesabre, but i'll extend him for the rest of the cycle after we had the technical lead vote
<ochosi> although voting is a bit ridiculous if we only have one applicant
<bluesabre> thanks ochosi
<ochosi> i think it'll be a formality, but it seems better to do it this way
<ochosi> if i forget to extend you, please ping me as elfy did ;)
<bluesabre> will do :)
<ochosi> knome: have you warned any of the recent OT posters on the devel ML already btw?
<ochosi> the "it is beautiful" is nice and all, but really OT :)
<ochosi> elfy: btw, please talk to Unit193 whenever he's around again about the -core testing
<ochosi> while he has an iso available, he suggested merging the seed file to give testers an easier/better way to provide feedback
<ochosi> so that is for the two of you to decide
<brainwash> ochosi: mark bug 1287171 as invalid or wishlist? vt switching is part of the concept of light-locker, if it breaks something, then people should not use it
<ubottu> bug 1287171 in light-locker (Ubuntu) "light-locker breaks x11vnc as service" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1287171
<elfy> ochosi: thanks boss
<ochosi> brainwash: at least it's what i think is the cause for the vnc trouble,m i personally don't use anything like that
 * ochosi lost his remote login for the moment, lemme know if stuff comes up
#xubuntu-devel 2014-05-29
<Logan_> Noskcaj: you want https://code.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/ubuntu/utopic/xfce4-eyes-plugin/4.4.2/+merge/221146 sponsored/
<Logan_> sxsponsored/xsponsored?x
<Unit193> elfy: Just the person I needed.  Sorry I didn't catch you earlier, had to visit the doc and crap.
<elfy> such is life
<Unit193> So I presumed with core testing, we'd want to get it in first so we can use tasksel from the mini ISO, or install the meta without adding any extra repos.  I made the merge request and ochosi kindly reminded me that I should confirm this is how you'd prefer to go about testing this (I was going to wait on getting something installable before contacting you.)
<elfy> yea that sounds right to me
<elfy> I would think the best way is 
<elfy> 1 - get -core so tasksel sees it
<elfy> 2 - do some double checks between us
<elfy> 3 - let -testers know - those who are brave enough can then do it
<elfy> 4 - I've still got people that might look elsewhere
<elfy> does that make sense to you?
<Unit193> All except 4, so sounds great and what I was aiming for.  Thanks!
<elfy> \o/
<Unit193> Oh, since ochosi isn't on IRC (connection problems), do you want to approve https://code.launchpad.net/~unit193/ubuntu-seeds/xubuntu-seed/+merge/221149 or want me to make a comment/
<elfy> I can - bit like asking a blind man to check your expenses though
<elfy> Unit193: is that what I think it is - adding core in so it's available for tasksel?
<Unit193> Also how the xubuntu-core metapackage is created.
<elfy> ok
<elfy> done
<Unit193> Thanks!  Want me to hit up trello with the plan?
<Unit193> elfy: Sorry to sound stupid, but suite b?
<elfy> the testcases need to be checked before we call
<elfy> I assume you're looking at the package testcase card with the checklist
<elfy> 6 testcases to check over before we call
<Unit193> No I wasn't, OK.
<elfy> why did you mention it then?
<Unit193> https://trello.com/c/kKLiedUe/15-suite-b-call saw it was due soon.
<Unit193> (I got this, I know what's going on.)
<elfy> woohoo
<elfy> so people look and it works \o/
<Unit193> elfy: Sorry, I cheated. :(
<Unit193> xubutrello: due soon
<xubutrello>   ->  1. Suite B Call (id: 15) due: 2014-06-09 11:00:00 UTC from list: To Do 14.10
<elfy> yep - I guessed :)
<elfy> still you looked
<elfy> now you know also that the testcases need to be checked :p
<Unit193> Right.  Isn't lls going to change?
<elfy> it is - but atm it hasn't - so we can only go with what we have
<elfy> if it changes after then we can always ask people to test *that* 
<elfy> there's now a newer due date too :p
<elfy> should make more sense with the previous one
<Unit193> Mhmm, I see.
<ochosi> elfy: i've been disconnected for a day or so, so i didn't see any reply wrt -core testing. i presume you +1-ing the merge request means that you wanna merge first, then test?
<Unit193> Yes.
<Unit193> ochosi: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/05/29/%23xubuntu-devel.html
<gry> Hello. Skype, battery indicator, and goldendict go to 'indicator (unity)' applet. Notes and power indicator go to 'notification area' applet. Quassel icon goes nowhere. Would someone please package things properly and consistently? I am not using unity and do not need the 'indicator (unity)' applet.
<gry> Where do I file bugs for that?
<brainwash> gry: https://launchpad.net/
<knome> ochosi, no
<slickymasterWork> morning knome 
<knome> hey slickymasterWork 
<gry> brainwash: Bugs in what? In the packages which go to the wrong tray? And what application includes that 'indicator (unity)' applet - I think it shouldn't do that unless unity is installed?
<brainwash> gry: you mean xfce4-indicator-plugin?
<brainwash> if you don't want to use it, simply remove it from the panel
<Unit193> knome: You're the assignee for "Attribute documentation translators" right? ;)  Can I just pass the short, proof of concept script I have and be done?
<knome> of course you can ;)
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/PgGsQsa9qy4dslpNuY4Q/ two different options, I think you remember them.  It pulls the lists of contributors, though of course is a tad hacky.
<knome> yep, looks good.
<Unit193> I of course can't do the html hackage, but any more help needed on whichever method slickymaster chooses, and I think I can likely help.
<knome> do we want to inject the credits after converting to html?
<Unit193> Like in the startpage process?
<knome> well, yeah...
<knome> because the other option is to mess with the xml.
<Unit193> I think html is a better bet, no?
<knome> i don't prefer either way
<Unit193> Unless you would rather somehow do an #include.
<knome> hmmh
<knome> that might be a good option
<knome> but the include would need to be dynamic
<knome> well, actually not
<knome> because we could just be sneaky and change the same file to other content
<Unit193> Or re-generate it and remove. :P
<knome> well, that
<knome> but practically the same, since the index file could be static
<knome> hmm, this looks promising
<knome> for some reason, the included file must have one wrapping element or the XML parsing will fail
<knome> but we can overcome that.
<knome> ...i think
<knome> hmm...
<knome> Unit193, http://paste.openstack.org/show/Ij9D2RgY1KB6Cb5XpG0Z/
<knome> that's the markup we need
<knome> not too hard, eh?
<knome> then in index.xml, something like this: http://paste.openstack.org/show/390DO9UEoWDKcGyOURTR/
<knome> of course, it's a bit meh with the default language, because we can't revert the <para> so easily
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/nVtJFesnc45w9aPj5Q1U/ there's the output.
<knome> you need <itemizedlist> too
<Unit193> Well yes, but that's the simple one.
<knome> and we do not want the launchpad contibutors line.
<Unit193> So, changed.  (Those were simple.)
<knome> yeah
<knome> that's the only thing we need from the included xml
<knome> i'm also considering how we should word the <para>
<knome> it might be a good idea to note that those people did not necessarily *translate* anything, but might have helped with the technical side or sth.
<Unit193> Some output 'translator-credits', but no Language above the cutoff will do that.
<Unit193> I don't get my name there anywhere. :(
<Unit193> :P
<knome> well the script could change that to "Unknown"
<knome> what even creates that situation?
<knome> only suggestions in LP?
<knome> or things that need reviewing?
<knome> because those aren't saved as translations in the .po files.
<knome> which is... silly
<knome> or they are fuzzy or something.
<knome> i can't remember, it's too much time
<knome> but there was something "meh" about it
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/9IKKhGnExd2SjY0ZwrBw fixed!  Yeah, that's when there isn't any listed translators.
<knome> d'oh!
<knome> the start tag is without / ;)
<Unit193> I know that. :P
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/4VjQ9nQ0oApHx4mcSTbJ/ so that's really what it'd be.
<knome> yyyyep
<knome> that looks good.
<knome> do you want to land the stuff in a branch?
<knome> i can help with the missing bits, i sorted it out locally
<Unit193> Are you really sure you want to commit something like http://paste.openstack.org/show/GCsmT8eQqgKMFcfd1lkw with so much sed? :P
<knome> well,
<knome> i don't know why sed would be so evil
<knome> if it works for us
<knome> i mostly just want this out.
<knome> then, if people have suggestions how to improve it, do that.
<Unit193> Want to drop the grep_creds, or fix it?
<knome> but for now we don't have anything else, so either we put it out like this, and *have it*, or wait for somebody to come up with something "better", which might take a long time
<knome> that just outputs?
<Unit193> Right, it uses the grep feature rather than building then checking.  It's no faster, but may be cleaner.
<knome> ah, right.
<knome> i don't think i have a strong opinion
<knome> fwiw, you can even leave it there
<knome> if it's potentially helpful later
<knome> just leave a note that it's not used
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/niMrCLdTLtMhN2uO7YWA/ <<<
<knome> looks good.
<knome> what do you think about the placement of the translator credits?
<knome> i was thinking after the documentation contributors, but before the contributors to the old docs
<Unit193> http://docs.xubuntu.org/1404/ln-idp57636336.html Somewhere in here?
<Unit193> Yep, exactly.
<knome> yeah, then dump one of my pastes there
<knome> and the next question:
<knome> actually, nvm
<knome> or, yeah...
<knome> different POV:
<knome> where do we need/want to create the temp xml file?
<Unit193> Either the current working dir, desktop-guide/tmp/ or perhaps desktop-guide/libs/ ?
<knome> current working dir is meh, because it's included related to the index.xml file.
<knome> i was thinking libs, as long as it's cleaned and does not get copied to the installation :P
<knome> tbh, it shouldn't matter too much where it is, again as long as it doesn't get left in the installation
<Unit193> So here's the problem, does the build bail if the include file is missing?
<knome> probably.
<knome> but i'd guess you can just have an empty one.
<knome> so touch that and delete for non-translator-languages
<knome> hmm, no.
<knome> boo
<Unit193> Actually, I need to change that script to follow what I made translate.sh do.
<Unit193> Oh, was I supposed to add my name as part of translate.sh's copyright header? :P
<knome> as you said, we probably don't run into problems with "no translators", because those won't be built
<knome> but you could just drop "No creditable translators" or sth
<knome> (having an empty file fails the build, it expects to have some content...)
<knome> i have a fancy idea.
<knome> which would need more work
<knome> but we could create start-translator-credits.xml
<knome> which would *only* have the starting paragraph
<knome> which would be translatable.
<knome> then create the temp file, and *if* there was translators, include start-translator-credits.xml and list the translators.
<knome> otherwise, show empty content
<knome> which would solve the problem for the default language
<knome> and no weird "these are the translators: none, haa-haa"
#xubuntu-devel 2014-05-30
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/fUAnvXhRHYcO0v7kxmPw/ - http://paste.openstack.org/show/yACaC0Bxs7v4vR09QAaX
<knome> mhm
<knome> now write it in a file.
<Unit193> The point of that is so it matches what's in the makefile now.
<knome> right.
<knome> well that's good.
<Unit193> Now, how do you want to handle `cd` and where it expects to be run from? :P
<knome> no idea.
<Unit193> OK, so where's the file you want me to feed this into?
<knome> huhu
<knome> here's what i know i want
<knome> http://paste.openstack.org/show/390DO9UEoWDKcGyOURTR/
<knome> that in index.xml.
<Unit193> Also, I know it's not supposed to be === fi === :P
<knome> and note the href value
<knome> that's where the translators file should be.
<knome> i don'
<knome> i don't really mind where it is
<knome> as long as it's not in the final installated files :)
<knome> that paste could go to line 34 in index.xml
<knome> this is the "do not avoid printing the paragraph if there is no translators" way
<knome> but i think we should start with that
<knome> because everything is set to work like that
<Unit193> Well we were thinking by language, weren't we?
<knome> hmm, right
<knome> it's not much different anyway
<knome> this way we'll always get the paragraph there
<knome> but let's get it working like this first.
<Unit193> I did, https://sigma.unit193.net/~unit193/build/desktop-guide/ln-idp43644284.html but it matters what way we go for a couple reasons...
<knome> elaborate
<Unit193> Because of this: C/translators.xml:2: parser error : Extra content at the end of the document
<Unit193> <itemizedlist>
<Unit193> ^
<knome> what's the full contents of that file?
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/x6M00aJ4hnYUoKZ35q6c/ or take out the para lines and you get the same dealio.
<knome> as i said, the includeable file must have a single wrapping element
<knome> so no para + itemizedlist
<knome> but what do we need the para for anyway?
<Unit193> Alrighty, so just sort and uniq? :P
<knome> the user should know he's reading the finnish translation.
 * knome shrugs
<knome> what's wrong with the default order?
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/gGVRjAvN9PmhmDLeVT4C count the knome. :P
<knome> uhh...
<knome> wait
<knome> we do not want to show them *all* in *all* translations
<knome> just pt in pt
<knome> and fi in fi
<Unit193> Hrm, well that's fun.
<knome> how so? we're already iterating through the languages one by one
<knome> in both "ends"
<Unit193> Oh gosh this is annoying. >_<
 * Unit193 waits for knome's proposal.
<knome> for what? :P
<Unit193> How to do it.
<knome> well, you can save files like translators-fi.xml
<knome> then when you are going through the translations themself, just get the lang code and cp translators-fi.xml translators.xml ?
<Unit193> Not the problem.
<knome> what *is* ?:)
<Unit193> OK, I think I'm going to revert back to a clean working tree and hope the fix comes through bzr. :P
<knome> wuz fix?
<knome> tell me what's your problem?
<knome> the included file not validating?
<Unit193> Parser errors out the wazoo, file isn't getting included but exists, etc, etc...
<knome> make sure you don't have empty lines
<Unit193> I don't think I see anything that should be broken, but yet.
<knome> can send me the files.
<Unit193> I don't understand this, I should ignore it and hope it goes away...
<knome> i can look at them.
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/TnJ23AYsZnGDS84wCZbm - http://paste.openstack.org/show/o3qHnBBdb6Pr3nzMO6OB what's broken?
<Unit193> So wait, the translations are broken from a clean tree. \o/
<knome> uummph?
<knome> it's 4am, maybe i should look at this tomorrow...
<knome> i just can't follow the stuff at all, and it's most definitely not a problem at your end...
<Unit193> Well, some of it has to be, the translation credits have to be I think.
<Unit193> OK, good night.  We should just pull slickymaster into it. ;)
<knome> have to be what?
<Unit193> Some of the problem has to be my end, credits should work.
<knome> dunno
<knome> let's look at it tomorrow
<Unit193> Hah, yeeeey. :P
<knome> i'm sure we'll get it fixed :)
<Unit193> Hah!  Just as long as I don't have to be docs lead, or mess too much with Makefiles...
<knome> you don't :P
<knome> though definitions of "too much" might differ
 * knome hides
<knome> i think i need to go to sleep.
<knome> good night!
<Logan_> Noskcaj: you should offer to package https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=407380
<ubottu> Debian bug 407380 in wnpp "ITP: xfce4-eyes-plugin -- eyes plugin for Xfce panel" [Wishlist,Open]
<Noskcaj> Logan_, Yeah, probably. I'll put it into the debian svn, but corsac is busy with other stuff this month
<gry> brainwash: I did remove xfce4-indicator-plugin - I believe it should have unity as a dependency.
<Unit193> xfce4-indicator-plugin should have unity as a dep??  Heck to the no..
<Logan_> wat
<brainwash> knome: do you think that re-adding the "settings" category to the menu structure is valid option? bug 1310264
<ubottu> bug 1310264 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Can't search/find items in the Settings Manager" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1310264
<brainwash> it would make the settings manager button redundant
<Unit193> ochosi: Welcome back.
<ochosi> thanks
<ochosi> still no remote login
<ochosi> what did i miss?
<Unit193> Mainly docs stuff, also link to bug 1310264
<ubottu> bug 1310264 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Can't search/find items in the Settings Manager" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1310264
<brainwash> ochosi: simply add the settings category and remove the settings-manager button?
<brainwash> or just keep the button
<gry> brainwash: Hello?
<brainwash> gry: yes?
<brainwash> gry: did you resolve your problem?
<gry> brainwash: Xubuntu is not shipped with unity by default, is it? And it is shipped with xfce4-indicator-something by default, isn't it?
<brainwash> xubuntu does include unity's indicator stack by default
<slickymasterWork> yes on both gry 
<gry> brainwash: Why is the unity indicator stack being included, out of curiousity? I don't have unity installed, and some apps didn't move over to the unity indicator.
<brainwash> xfce4-indicator-plugin is a wrapper to display these unity indicators in Xubuntu
<gry> I mean: what problem is being solved here? Why not stick to one thing instead of 2?
<brainwash> it has been this way for many cycles
<brainwash> starting with 14.04 we now support the new gtk3 indicators
<gry> I've unfortunately  been out of the loop since 12.04 or whatever that is. I just updated to 14.04, and you added a new indicator which has something to do with unity, but apps keep trying to move over to it despite unity not being installed.
<gry> Some apps (notes, for example) also fail to move over. I don't think unity and gtk3 are that closely related - you can rewrite notification area in gtk3 if you like.
<gry> You don't need to do it in utterly overcomplicated way like this.
<brainwash> if an application supports the app indicator, it will be displayed in the indicator area, otherwise it will use the fallback solution (notification area)
<gry> Okay, so I need to figure out what to do. Could you please tell me what is the role of unity in the new gtk3-supportive indicator applet.
<brainwash> we only use some of unity's indicators
<gry> What should I read to understand what unity does? And how complex is it to have notes in the new indicator applet?
<brainwash> so it's not the whole unity desktop environment 
<gry> "What should I read to understand what unity does? " means things like "can it work with gtk3 without unity's indicators" and things like that.
<brainwash> you will have to provide a patch for the notes apps
<brainwash> basically there is no problem, because we include both indicator and notification area, so all tray icons should show up
<Unit193> brainwash: Which all do, except Quassel.
<gry> For new users yes - old users will upgrade and only have the notification area only. Not all of them know how to come to irc and ask questions, or how to add a second applet.
<brainwash> oh, what about other QT apps?
<Unit193> If they support the newer API, sure.  VLC does fine, as does (mostly) Skype.
<brainwash> gry: right, migrating user configurations is a permanent problem
<Unit193> s/problem/feature/ some, including me, would say.
<brainwash> old user accounts won't switch to whisker menu either, etc
<gry> I would think you're trying to make things compatible. I.e. if you can write some more core for notification area, do that - it will be less confusing?
<gry> core -^code
<brainwash> as of now we are glad that things work how they work
<gry> Sorry?
<brainwash> and like I said before, you can always remove the indicator area from the panel, it's optional
<gry> It's not. When I remove it, the apps don't figure out how to put themselves to notification area.
<brainwash> stock Xfce does not ship the indicator area, so it is optional
<gry> Okay. I uninstalled xfce4-indicator-plugin -- I will check what works and what doesn't, after I log out and log in.
<brainwash> right, please do
<ochosi> brainwash: i'm in favor of adding the category to the menu, but it will be a regression for those using the traditional appmenu
<Unit193> Do we need the website links, still?
<gry> Okay, it works now, everything is in notification area. Where did the indicator applet come from? Is it builtin? If not, I'll blame user error..
<Unit193> You can also remove indicator-* packages if you'd like, and some other libs.
<brainwash> ochosi: will people with the classic app menu complain about the extra category?
<gry> ?
<brainwash> gry: xfce4-indicator-plugin is only the panel plugin, you can also remove the actual indicator packages (indicator-*)
<gry> I understood that. Thanks. The panel plugin is not builtin? I am trying to understand where it came from.
<brainwash> it's an external panel plugin
<brainwash> or what do you mean exactly?
<brainwash> external panel plugins are shipped in their own packages
<brainwash> the notification area (internal plugin) is part of xfce4-panel
<ochosi> anyway folks, my connection continues to be shaky as always, if important stuff comes up, just email me
<Unit193> ochosi: Perhaps email Lyz with requested login details?
<gry> brainwash: I guess it would make sense for ubuntu to wait for xfce to go gtk3. Before it does, all apps -- including gtk3 ones -- appear to be happy with gtk2. Unity-based things look to be a waste of time, xfce folks would get to it in a compatible way so any app that talks to xfce would magically talk to a new notification area -- that's how I define compatibility.
<ochosi> Unit193: it just feels like a possibly useless effort, and i can't even get/access my irssi profile folder for the moment, so i'd have to do that all over again (=waste of time)
<gry> That's what my expectations are, anyway. I also grepped the gzipped logs and I see that I upgraded the indicator plugin recently, but I didn't install it myself, so something was shipped with it and didn't uninstall it properly (I had gnome-ish ubuntu desktop installed before).
<gry> So I just see that it's not built-in like you said and hope that it'll be available as an extra ever since, but if other users ask, it should be interesting where they got it from. I dunno where I did.
<brainwash> it should be installed by default if xubuntu-desktop is installed
<brainwash> it's part of the xubuntu experience
<brainwash> and works fine for most people (we did much testing)
<knome> Unit193, i thought we dropped the links already.
<gry> brainwash: "Works fine for most people" to have two borders around two different applets when only one would suffice? How is it better than using the old one?
<Unit193> knome: xubuntu-default-settings: /usr/share/xubuntu/applications/xubuntu-website.desktop  Still.
<knome> Unit193, i noticed the same, but at least they are not in the main menu.
<knome> i mean, the root level
<knome> or are they? :)
<brainwash> gry: sadly this discussion seems to lead nowhere :/
<knome> gry, with the old way, not all of the indicators worked.
<knome> gry, if you are willing to patch that (and make it work with gtk3), it's very welcome
<knome> gry, otherwise, we will keep using what we use now since at least all the things work now.
<knome> gry, if you don't like that, you can use the old way and miss some of the indicators
<gry> I don't know where else to ask, I need some more details. If you give me some thoughts on what did not work, I'll check and consider fixing.
<knome> gry, or fix the old stack.
<gry> I'm just conservative. I don't like new things, especially if they're builtin and the entity of problems they address is empty.
<gry> While xfce folks would convert their stuff to gtk3 smoother anyway.
<gry> I'd be happy to stop complaining and fix the old stack - what are its problems?
<knome> i'm not technical enough to point out the exact problems, but others can, and ultimately, it's all on the logs.
<Unit193> knome: They are.
<gry> I would probably look at some sort of bug tracker but I've never found launchpad intuitive without some sort of kicks
<knome> Unit193, oh. not the whiskermenu favs? :)
<Unit193> I don't use whisker.
<gry> it would have to be in xfce's bug tracker probably, but I've not used that either
<knome> Unit193, they aren't
<knome> Unit193, so i guess it's a good idea actually... those who keep on using the old menu will still see them.
<Unit193> Meh.
<knome> gry, i appreciate that you are saying you are willing to help, but seriously, i don't know how much time i should use to help you if you can't seem to be comfortable using a bug tracker
<knome> Unit193, i'm also with dropping them.
<brainwash> gry: xubuntu 12.04 already ships with xfce4-indicator-plugin (for gtk2 indicators) and the notification area
<knome> err, good.
<brainwash> gry: so having both areas in the panel is nothing new
<gry> knome: it's more of "which tracker to use" than "how to use it" -- I'm not very familiar with whose problems to fix, distro's ones or xfce's ones
<Unit193> knome: Oh, and anyone else I should ping/add to the merge proposal for -core?
<gry> also, if you feel that I'm too lazy, feel free to ask me to sleep more; I'm not sleeping well at all
<knome> Unit193, well you probably should be corresponding mainly with ochosi now :)
<gry> brainwash: I'm not looking at new things that fix unknown problems before I give up fixing unknown problems
<Unit193> knome: Already set him as reviewer and talked to him, grabbing you because :online: :P
<knome> ^ see
<knome> :P
<Unit193> ochosi: Alrighty, anyone else I should snag/ping/add to the -core merge proposal for reviewing?
<brainwash> gry: so I guess that you should start with porting Xfce to gtk3 and then somehow merge the indicator plugin into the notification area
<gry> yup, I think the xfce folks are doing something in that direction already
<brainwash> they do, but they need help to speed up the process :)
<gry> without using unity stuff - so it's up to fixing old applet and then writing it in new gtk3
<gry> yes I agree
<gry> I'll look at what they're doing and shout back if I have issues, that should be a decent way
<ochosi> Unit193: no, i wanted to talk to elfy but couldn't get a hold of him yet (or maybe he couldn't get a hold of me)
<Unit193> Cool, so I'll just sit tight, no problem.
<ochosi> bluesabre: what's the status on the lls and xfpm uploads btw?
<bluesabre> I think they're both in utopic now and ready to SRU/backport to trusty
<ochosi> the SRU hasn't been filed yet i suppose?
<bluesabre> that's correct
<ochosi> i see...
<bluesabre> I haven't had a chance to do much the past two days
<ochosi> sure, not blaming you in case you thought that ;)
<bluesabre> was hoping to catch up tonight or tomorrow morning ;)
<ochosi> i've been a bit disconnected
<ochosi> just don't wanna lose track too much on this
<bluesabre> yeah, I'm on top of it :)
<elfy> not being connected makes it a bit hard to talk to people :p
<knome> here we see the perfect example of the IRC-centric thinking/workflow ;)
<elfy> trello ftw
<brainwash> ochosi: can you please take a look at bug 1324811
<ubottu> bug 1324811 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "Please disable by default "Use the mouse wheel on the desktop to switch workspaces"" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1324811
<elfy> ochosi: I'm about for 30 minutes now - then back in a couple of hours
<ochosi> elfy: just read your email
<ochosi> so yeah, i guess it's easiest then if we merge core so testers can do what they always do
<elfy> yea - that would be favourite
<elfy> that's what Unit193 and I discussed for this 
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> i'm fine with that, so let's merge it
<elfy> k - cool
<ochosi> elfy, Unit193: ok, it's merged (in case the previous one didn't catch you :))
<elfy> ochosi: ok - thanks
<elfy> I'll check that out soon and then Unit193 and I can come up with some testing plan
<slickymasterWork> hey elfy, knome 
<knome> hello slickymasterWork 
<slickymasterWork> next tuesday meeting plan is all setup
<slickymasterWork> just a question though, id the Debian liaison issue been dropped
<slickymasterWork> ochosi: ^^
<slickymasterWork> s/id(is
<elfy> pretty sure Unit193 is that 
<elfy> today was the day for anyone to say anything afaik
<slickymasterWork> so, it's done with, for sure
<elfy> actually 2 days ago 
<elfy> just need to XPL to do the 'officialising' it I think :)
<slickymasterWork> ok elfy, thanks for the heads up on that
<elfy> that's my understanding of it all at least :)
<slickymasterWork> np, I'll bring it up anway
<slickymasterWork> if nothing it will server to make it official 
<elfy> suspect it will be an Announcement rather than anything else
<slickymasterWork> yes
<elfy> wandering now - bbl
<slickymasterWork> until then elfy 
<slickymasterWork> lunch time for me ->
<ochosi> slickymaster: yes, the debian liaison issue is dropped, i'll announce Unit193 on the ML shortly
<ochosi> brainwash: i did take a look at that bugreport now, i have no idea whether that takes precedence (it would be a bit silly if it did though)
<brainwash> ochosi: thanks, I have no clue either, I just assume that it works just fine
<slickymasterWork> lol ochosi, you're really mimicking me
<slickymasterWork> are you sure we're not using the same ISP ;)
<drc> clear
<elfy> with expected showers
<drc> tomorrow: Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs.
<Unit193> Logan_: How do you feel about pushing a NEW package in for Xubuntu?  pkg-xfce isn't really interested in it.
<Noskcaj> Unit193, Which package?
<Unit193> Noskcaj: It'd not be seeded, but xfdashboard.  Not for sure we want it available, but might.
<Noskcaj> ok
<Unit193> I already have all the packaging done, except for some description changes.
<Logan_> Unit193: sure
<Logan_> why doesn't Debian want it?
<Unit193> Noskcaj: While you're bumping people, you should bump Matthias Klose about parsedatetime, it's a little broken.
<Unit193> Logan_: I think it's more just not interested/not enough time.
<Noskcaj> Unit193, I will soon. Have to finish this upower stuff first
<Logan_> Unit193: I'm leaving for NYC now, but I can definitely do it later/tomorrow
<Unit193> Logan_: Have fun!  But this wasn't a thing for this week, just perhaps this cycle.
<Logan_> kk
<Noskcaj> Unit193, parsedatetime is probably fixed in 1.2. I doubt doko would care if you updated it
<Unit193> It is fixed in 1.2, that's what I'm using.
<Noskcaj> Why not make a merge then
<Unit193> They tend to be a huge pain for something so simple.
<Noskcaj> ok
<Unit193> Noskcaj: Isn't it  (LP: #1302963)  ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1302963 in parsedatetime (Ubuntu) "Calendar() class can not be initialized" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1302963
<Noskcaj> Unit193, Merge is now up
<Unit193> So I should delete mine, I see.  I targetted the wrong location it seems anyway, meh.
<Unit193> lp-propose really fails badly now. :/
<Unit193> Noskcaj: Do you know why when you branch from lp:ubuntu/parsedatetime, lp-propose wants to merge to lp:parsedatetime?
<Noskcaj> nope. Although i don't use lp-propose
<Unit193> I really like the idea, and it used to work better. :/
#xubuntu-devel 2014-05-31
<bluesabre> re: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-power-manager/+bug/1303736
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1303736 in xfce4-power-manager "Black screen after wakeup from suspending by closing the laptop lid" [Undecided,New]
<bluesabre> anybody familiar with the issue and fix, please let me know if I missed anything: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-power-manager/+bug/1303736
<bluesabre> woops
<bluesabre> paste.ubuntu.com/7555400/
<bluesabre> brainwash ^
<Unit193> knome: You had set the next meeting as a Video call on Google calendar, I removed that tag.
<bluesabre> Unit193, put it back :D
<Unit193> bluesabre: You want to see the faces of thses people?
<bluesabre> sure, I'd imagine we've got a good-looking group :D
<bluesabre> ochosi is a lego man from all his profile pics
<Unit193> And I'm a hairy chimp.
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> the general glitchiness of the dnd gui is now fixed... http://imgur.com/i7O4FGE
<knome> Unit193, huh, weird...
<knome> Unit193, wonder how i did *that*
<knome> btw, it would probably be good if the description said who the chair was...
<brainwash> bluesabre: what do you mean? should I check the sru description?
<brainwash> just realized that the new packages haven't been released yet for trusty :D
<brainwash> the report should be split into trusty/utopic
<bluesabre> brainwash: the packages have alreadu been uploaded to utopic
<bluesabre> I just want to know if there are any other details
<bluesabre> Logan_, can you take a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm-gtk-greeter/+bug/1320830 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1320830 in lightdm-gtk-greeter (Ubuntu) "Please merge lightdm-gtk-greeter 1.8.5-1 from Debian unstable" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<bluesabre> I'm not having any such build issues, not sure what's going on
<brainwash> bluesabre: looks complete, but I did not test the fix, so I'm not sure if you missed some potential regression
<bluesabre> ok, thanks brainwash
<brainwash> things like "do nothing on lid-close" will continue to work fine, or?
<bluesabre> brainwash: yes
<bluesabre> everything will work exactly the same as it does now, except when lock-on-suspend is enabled, the session will work on resume
<brainwash> won't people miss the black screen? now that they got used to it :)
<bluesabre>  :)
<Logan_> bluesabre: I'll take a look
<Logan_> generally, merges are difficult to sponsor
<sergio-br2> hey, i installed some emulator and front-end here, and they are in "System" entry of whisker menu, any idea? Virtualbox is there too.
<brainwash> the category is specified by the installed apps
<brainwash> is "system" wrong in this case?
<sergio-br2> hum, yeah, i think snes9x and mame for example are not to bee there
<sergio-br2> humm, otherosfs is system? (seeing control file)
<brainwash> but snes9x emulates another... system :)
<brainwash> like I said, there is nothing wrong with whisker menu
<sergio-br2> hum, if i think like this, then it's right
<sergio-br2> (for me it's more like game)
<brainwash> you could file a bug report against snes9x
<sergio-br2> so the problem is with deb package?
<sergio-br2> ok, thanks
<brainwash> not necessarily with the deb package, but the "source code" in general
<brainwash> the app launcher is a simple text file (.desktop file)
<ali1234> yeah, check in /usr/share/applications/snes9x.desktop (or whatever it is called)
<brainwash> It's very likely that the devs of snes9x want their app to be listed under "system"
<ali1234> actually i'd say it's very likely the .desktop was added by the package, since the developers probably don't care about xdg standards
<brainwash> maybe.. maybe
<sergio-br2> hum, i will see those things, thanks
<sergio-br2> in vba-m, Categories=Game;Emulator;GTK;
<sergio-br2> so Emulator is associate to System?
<ali1234> yes, probably
<ali1234> or perhaps Gtk
<ali1234> xdg defines "menu" files
<ali1234> that's the next thing to check
<ali1234> in the menu file you can say "put anything that goes in these categories in this submenu"
<ali1234> the menu file is at /etc/xdg somewhere
<sergio-br2> Virtualbox: Categories=Emulator;Utility;
<ali1234> whisker menu *should* respect it
<sergio-br2> yeah, and it is respecting it, i think emulator is related to system
<ali1234> yes, menu "System" includes category "Emulator"
<ali1234> in /etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/menus/xfce-applications.menu
#xubuntu-devel 2014-06-01
<ochosi> hi everyone
<gry> hello ochosi
<gry> how's things
<ochosi> okayish
<gry> what you working on now
<ochosi> at this moment, on nothing, have a lot of RL work ahead
<gry> is it school related? anything periodic or predictable?
<ochosi> work related
<gry> ah okay
<gry> maintaining things is hard -_-
<gry> especially when they change and people dont stay enough to troubleshoot properly
<knome> this is interesting/useful if we decide we'd like to apply for the community funds: http://mhall119.com/2014/05/community-donations-funding-report/
<ochosi> hihi, i can't apply cause i'm not an ubuntu member
<knome> well apparently it's possible to lift ~$1k for travel expenses for one person for one event
<knome> and up to, like ~$2.7k for one person for all events in a year
<knome> though i'm pretty sure that if more applications start coming in, that'll not be possible
<ochosi> so you're saying i should apply for ubuntu membership? :p
<knome> i'm saying we could be able to pull out one event where most of the contributors could be 
<ochosi> yup, that would be very nice indeed
<knome> say, apply for sponsorship to fosdem for sean and lyz
<knome> and then the europeans take one for the team :P
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> bbiab
<knome> (or share the rest of the expenses with the team...)
<pleia2> someone should nudge me when the fosdem CFP comes up, might be able to go for work
<knome> :)
<ochosi> that'd be nice
<olbi> hi guys, I'm testing proposed files for langpack and there aren't any updated files form Xfce language git :/
<Unit193> ochosi: Were you actually interested, or just perhaps interested in that one package as an installable option for utopic?
<Unit193> knome: Why you no fix translations yet?
<ochosi> Unit193: not sure what you're referring to, i don't have any backlog
<knome> Unit193, i no resposible!
<Unit193> knome: But you're far better.
<Unit193> ochosi: xfda<tab>
<ochosi> Unit193: ah i see, well i wanted it in the utopic repos, or at least in our extras PPA (i'd actually also be happy with the latter for now)
<ochosi> i still have to ask micahg to set up that PPA for us though
<Unit193> ochosi: Asked our friendly neighboorhood uploader, he was fine with the idea of uploading.
<ochosi> cool
<ochosi> there are also a few other things we might wanna consider
<ochosi> skippy-xd is one of them
<Unit193> Ubuntu doesn't like to carry packages Debian doesn't have.
<ochosi> i thought xdash also wasn't in debian
<ochosi> and corsac had no interest in adding it
<Unit193> Right, which thusly makes it more or less fine for Ubuntu to do so.
<ochosi> so what is different for skippy-xd?
<Unit193> Ah, do you want to update the description and short description?  That was the worst part of packaging.
<Unit193> And no idea there, never used it.
<ochosi> there's no description for it?
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/au60bXlCVnxS3GXUkV8j/ Kind of copy+paste. :P
<Unit193> ochosi: Have you asked Corsac if he's interested?
<Unit193> (ITP - #698065) http://bugs.debian.org/698065 skippy-xd
<ubottu> Debian bug 698065 in wnpp "ITP: skippy-xd -- A full screen Expose style standalone task switcher for X11." [Wishlist,Open]
<ochosi> no, haven't
<ochosi> i agree, the xfdash description is in bad english :)
<ochosi> this is the current location of skippy xd btw: https://github.com/richardgv/skippy-xd
<ochosi> same maintainer/developer as compton i think
<Unit193> Yep, know the name.
<ochosi> i think that one we could get in touch with
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/ANWZxhK5zOx9xt9CoEJZ/ still bad, but slightly less so.
<Unit193> Logan_: Can you work with git+pristine-tar?  Or do you need a dsc?
<brainwash> ochosi: can you change the status/importance of lp bug reports?
<ochosi> brainwash: nope, not part of the bugsquad
<ochosi> Unit193: that pastebin gets me a 500 internal server error
<brainwash> but you are the xpl :/
<Unit193> ochosi: F5, openstack are getting issues.
<ochosi> Unit193: still no worky
<ochosi> brainwash: that doesn't mean i have to do everything. become a member of the bugsquad and get to work! :)
 * knome approves
<Unit193> http://paste.progval.net/show/eKrSSH9wV4lYwCBiOmbU/ Hrm, annoying. :/
<ochosi> Unit193: yup, that reads much better. thanks!
<Unit193> Also of course set Xubuntu Developers as the maintainer, not just myself. :P
<brainwash> I don't feel like I need to be in the bugsquad just to mark a report as wishlist once in a while
<brainwash> oh, and you need to be member of bugcontrol, bugsquad is not enough
<knome> brainwash, i think you're trying to sneak under the radar
<brainwash> am I? :)
<knome> yeah.
<knome> you're involved enough to actually "take one for the team" and actually get the bugsquad membership
<Unit193> He's at least interested in cleaning up bugs enough.
<knome> yeah, why make others do the actual status/importance changes?
<knome> (that way others need to work AND you don't get the attribution)
<Unit193> knome: Have any idea what broke the translations?
<ochosi> just seems duplication of efforts
<brainwash> hmpf
<knome> nope :)
<knome> Unit193, ^
<Unit193> Welp.
<ochosi> dinner time
<knome> Unit193, well i also didn't look very deeply into it
<ochosi> Noskcaj: xfpm 1.3.0 released
<Unit193> Wow.
<olbi> some1 know, when xfce4-power-manager 1.3 will be available here: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-power-manager
<olbi> could some1 send me screenshots of the xfce4-power-manager 1.3, from all tabs?
<knome> olbi, please do that yourself...
<ochosi> olbi: what for?
<olbi> for translations :)
<olbi> i'm compiling it now :)
<ochosi> olbi: http://imgur.com/a/5uK6f#0
<olbi> ochosi: thank you very much
<ochosi> np, i'm in a good mood because of the release, that's all ;)
<brainwash> already miss the fancy sidebar
<ochosi> you can always keep using 1.2.0
<brainwash> mmh, right
<brainwash> especially for the tray icon
<ochosi> sure, if you prefer it
<Unit193> brainwash: Something bad about the new one?
<brainwash> it requires xfce4-panel I think
<brainwash> panel plugin
<Unit193> Well, if it's still just a small space to take up, and has the same mouseover information...
<olbi> http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/xfce4-power-manager, should this site be upgrade for newest version? :-)
<ochosi> olbi: no, it will be removed as soon as i have time or we approach the stable release
<ochosi> it'll all be on docs.xfce
<olbi> oh, ok :)
<olbi> forgot it :]
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, ping
<Noskcaj> Your latest power manager upload is broken
<Noskcaj> You didn't add the patch to d/patches/series
<ochosi> oh, bad
<ochosi> Noskcaj: i guess we need to fix that first in utopic then, then do the SRU
<ochosi> and after that upload 1.3
<Noskcaj> can't upload 1.3 yet
<Noskcaj> doesn't it need upower 0.99
<ochosi> it's optional
<ochosi> i'm using it just fine in trusty btw
<Noskcaj> oh
<Noskcaj> i'll upload sometime today then
<Unit193> But if you upload now, it'll have to be rebuilt for .99.
<ochosi> yeah, better to get the fixed version of xfpm 1.2 first
<ochosi> also for the SRU
<Noskcaj> ok
<ochosi> would be nice if you could look into that though
<ochosi> as it's our worst 14.04 bug
<Noskcaj> will do. I've got to finish the upower transition first though, which is a real pain
<ochosi> hmm, yeah, it breaks lots of things
<ochosi> e.g. xfce4-session
<ochosi> in case you were wondering
<andrzejr> hmm.. xfce4-power-manager's battery/brightness plugins do not support multiple row panel layouts.
<Noskcaj> i knew that one, but at least it's an active upstream
<ochosi> andrzejr: yeah, the panel-plugin isn't finished yet, there are still a few rough edges
<Noskcaj> unlike razorqt and wmbattery
<ochosi> andrzejr: also, we didn't have much experience with panel plugins
<ochosi> andrzejr: patches welcome! :p
<andrzejr> ochosi, brightness plugin displays a slider right-to-left (+ on the left, - on the right)
<Unit193> Noskcaj: Razor basically moved to LXQt, so you're likely looking at the wrong source.
<Noskcaj> Unit193, I've not looked in lxqt for a patch yet, but it's annoying that it's there
<ochosi> andrzejr: yeah, that plugin will be redone to use a menu, it currently does a popup that only works in a horizontal panel. that was like that before, so "not our fault"(tm)
<andrzejr> ochosi, are you ok with dependency on libxfce4panel >= 4.10 or do you want ifdefs for older versions?
<ochosi> andrzejr: i think we're ok with that. older than 4.10 is just... oooooold :)
<andrzejr> ochosi, configure.ac.in is missing libxfce4panel dep anyway
<andrzejr> ochosi, sorry, wrong.
<andrzejr> it already depends on 4.10
<ochosi> andrzejr: well generally speaking, it's the first dev-release after 2 years, there is still a lot broken so be gentle with us ;)
<ochosi> hey sergio-br2 
<ochosi> thanks for merging the branch
<sergio-br2> :)
<ochosi> there's still something odd in the 32px version of calendar: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-2014-06-02-000127.php
<sergio-br2> well, after that i realized that is missing more webicons yet...
<ochosi> yeah, but no worries
<ochosi> we can still do a release imo
<sergio-br2> let me see
<sergio-br2> what exactly wrong with it?
<sergio-br2> in icon preview of inkscape it's seem ok
<ochosi> well if you look at the screenshot, 1) the number is not centered and 2) the shadow of the "1" is off to the right
<sergio-br2> try export to png, it's right i think
<ochosi> will do tomorrow, gotta go now
<sergio-br2> take a look http://en.zimagez.com/zimage/google-calendar.php
<ochosi> not sure what's wrong there, i'm testing the icons from the daily PPA
<ochosi> yeah, that looks like it shou
<ochosi> ld
<ochosi> odd
<olbi> andrzejr: when I was compiling, I needed xfce4-panel-dev, so maybe You should fix this in README
<sergio-br2> yeah ochosi, i can confirm calendar problem here
<sergio-br2> maybe imagemagick implementation is different from inkscape?
<sergio-br2> (it uses imagemagick right?)
<andrzejr> ochosi, https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10928
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10928 in General "Panel plugin size/orientation" [Normal,New]
<andrzejr> yay, notification works
<andrzejr> :-) (wrong window)
#xubuntu-devel 2015-05-25
<slickymasterWork> pleia2, thanks
<knome> updated the website front page with an image
<knome> (which has been in the pipe for a long time
<knome> )
<slickymasterWork> knome, the website isn't loading the top right images
<slickymasterWork> Failed to load resource: the server responded with a status of 404 (Not Found) menu.js?ver=0.1:1 Uncaught ReferenceError: jQuery is not defined http://xubuntu.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/desktop-laptop.png Failed to load resource: the server responded with a status of 404 (Not Found)
<brainwash> works fine here
<brainwash> reload the site
<slickymasterWork> already done that brainwash, still the same
<slickymasterWork> cleaning the browser cache
<elfy> fine here too 
<slickymasterWork> yeaps, loading them now
<elfy> knome: thanks :)
<slickymasterWork> knome ^^^
<knome> elfy, np
<knome> slickymasterWork, yah
<knome> was on the phone
<knome> and taking another call ->
<knome> humph
<knome> :P
<bluesabre> good morning everyone!
<knome> hello bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hi knome
<knome> what's in the agenda for today?
<bluesabre> answer my pings, release updated exo for gtk2/gtk, sync/merge some packages in xubuntu
<knome> ooh
<knome> no real work? :P
<bluesabre> memorial day in the US
<knome> aha
<bluesabre> office is closed
<knome> i have the official "call everybody" day
<bluesabre> fun!
<knome> not
<bluesabre> :(
<knome> well i guess it could be fun if you just called them
<knome> but since you have to prepare for the calls so you get certain things talked through...
<bluesabre> yeah
<knome> and massive talking in phone is exhausting
<elfy> not surprising when you've got words like Ã¤esch and PerÃ¤smiehiÃ¤ :p
<knome> hah!
<bluesabre> agreed!
<elfy> hi bluesabre :)
<bluesabre> hey elfy
<bluesabre> oh wow, just discovered super+tab
<knome> what's that supposed to do?
<astraljava> elfy: Those are more like natural sounds of knome, not real words most ordinary folks would use.
<bluesabre> knome: seems to switch between windows of the same app
<knome> aha
<knome> apparently...
<elfy> bluesabre: so it does 
<ochosi> hey folks
<knome> hey ochosi 
<ochosi> sad day, my laptop died :'(
<elfy> hi ochosi 
<knome> awwh
<elfy> oh noes 
<astraljava> RIP
<ochosi> just thought i'd let you know, might be a week or two until i get a replacement
<elfy> was it like this ochosi http://i.imgur.com/hLD8p.jpg
<astraljava> lolz
<ochosi> elfy: pretty much
<ochosi> well, graphics card is fried
<astraljava> Poor laptop, but at least ochosi isn't hungry.
<ochosi> well, i'm using an ancient thing from the past now
<ochosi> but it's hard to get anything done with it
<elfy> I bet 
<bluesabre> ochosi: but, that means you could probably get some ancient hardware testing done on it :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: haha, yeah, let's focus on the bright side ;)
<ochosi> i mean i haven't really used or tested 32bit systems in ages
<ochosi> so that's definitely new
<ochosi> elfy: btw, that xfpm bug i asked you to test a longer time ago, we might have a fix for that finally
<ochosi> eric was able to reproduce
<elfy> oh cool 
<ochosi> the new patch is attached to the bugreport
<ochosi> so in case you're still able to test that, that'd be much appreciated!
<ochosi> (if you need steps or anything, just lemme know)
<elfy> I can do that 
<elfy> ochosi: link to bug report please :)
<elfy> nvm
<ochosi> k, brb (lunchtime)
<elfy> ochosi: assuming I patched it properly - no icon still xfpm is at the far right of panel http://en.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot2015-05-2513-46-00.php
<ochosi> hmm, i see
<ochosi> you could - just to be sure - maybe run "git reset --hard origin/master" and then "./autogen.sh clean"
<ochosi> then re-apply the patch and rebuild
<elfy> oh - clean install here - grabbed it again from scratch 
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> in that case, crap, i guess
<ochosi> how did you apply the patch?
<elfy> top terminal in screenshot
<elfy> oh hang on
<ochosi> hm, why not "git apply blabla.patch"?
<ochosi> or "git am blabla.patch"
<elfy> because you do this stuff often - I drive a van and rarely do :p
<elfy> and not even sure it's downloading properly
<ochosi> yeah, .cgi doesn't look good tbh
<ochosi> and hey, you've done a great job at this so far, so no reason to doubt you! :)
<ochosi> you can go to this page and just save as "bla.patch" or something and then apply: http://bug-attachment.xfce.org/attachment.cgi?id=6280
<elfy> so cd into the power manager - then git apply foo.patch
<elfy> which then just echoes back with no error - assume that's right 
<ochosi> yup
<elfy> mmk
<elfy> still no icon ;)
<ochosi> awesome
<elfy> at least the plugin isn't crashing constantly 
<elfy> I'll get a blue crayon for the screen now :D 
<ochosi> hm, not crashing might be considered a step up
<elfy> yep for sure 
<ochosi> anyway, i'd say comment on the bugreport with your findings
<elfy> just so you're sure - this is on wily - not sure if that'd make a difference 
<ochosi> yeah, don't think so
<elfy> commented
<elfy> obv eric can ping me if he wants to 
<elfy> biab
<knome> elfy, you likely saw my reply on the mailing list (x-d this time)
<elfy> yep
<elfy> thanks :)
<knome> np
<ochosi> perfect, thanks elfyÂ°
<elfy> mmm
<knome> ochosi, saw the artwork on x.org already?
<ochosi> you mean the lappy and the desktop?
<elfy> ochosi: ha 
<knome> ochosi, yeah
 * elfy has icon ... 
<ochosi> saw it today when i downloaded the 32bit iso ;)
<ochosi> elfy: oh, what changed?
<elfy> redid it with existing xfpm uninstalled
<elfy> commented on bug again 
<elfy> happened to be in synaptic - package version looked wrong ;) 
<elfy> image changes at different panel px size than the one that shows up in notifications btw 
<elfy> one in standalone changes at 28px ,one in notification at 24px
<ochosi> sorry, i don't understand that last part
<ochosi> in the notifications, the icons should always be the same size
<elfy> yes
<ochosi> also, aren't we talking desktops? so what notifications
<elfy> in the panel notification area - xfpm showing - different icons from the plugin xfpm 
<elfy> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot2015-05-2514-37-29.php
<elfy> really biab now 
<ochosi> oh, yeah, that's the plan
<ochosi> the notification area is supposed to use colored icons whereas the panel plugin is supposed to use symbolic icons
<ochosi> the one you have there would actually be visible with the icon-theme from git
<elfy> ochosi: ok - ty - just thought I'd mention it now rather than in 6 weeks as an aside :)
<ochosi> hehe, yeah, well done
<ochosi> bluesabre: good change for whisker settings btw
<ochosi> could be that we could've done that already for 15.04
<bluesabre> ochosi: hm?
<ochosi> well at least i received a notification from x-d-s
<bluesabre> oh that
<ochosi> yeah, that :)
<bluesabre> yeah, required with whisker 1.5
<ochosi> i thought we shipped that in 15.04 already?
<bluesabre> nope
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> 1.4.3
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> exo release done :)
<ochosi> sweet
<ochosi> i guess i'll try to do xfpm soonish then
<ochosi> since we have the last blocker out of the way (thanks again, eric_the_idiot and elfy ;))
<bluesabre> very nice
<ochosi> i guess then we'll get more testing and more bugreports
<bluesabre> with xfpm, is gtk3 currently trunk?
<bluesabre> curious since I'm going to merge in the gtk3 exo and do a 0.11.0 release as well
<ochosi> yup, that's gtk3 + symbolic-icons + upower0.99
<ochosi> the latter was optional in 1.4, but now it's mandatory
<ochosi> didn't want to keep all the related ifs and keep the old icon system in place on the side
<bluesabre> makes sense
<ochosi> we'll see whether folks will complain about that
<ochosi> and i think gtk3.12 is the minimum, so along the lines of the 4.14 roadmap
<ochosi> however, the trayicon was kept alive
<ochosi> so there's that upside ;))
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> bluesabre: was there anything else you wanted to work on tonight?
<bluesabre> ochosi: exo and packaging, and I might play with xfce4-settings mirror mode later tonight
<ochosi> oh yeah, that one.
<bluesabre> anything in particular you'd like me to look at?
<ochosi> i was actually wondering whether we should tweak the auto-handling of newly connected monitors
<ochosi> so, say we get the mirror-mode working
<ochosi> we could auto-enable any newly connected display in mirrored mode
<ochosi> as an alternative to the popup or as an extra
<bluesabre> maybe, but that could be a pain with 3+ monitors
<ochosi> (could ofc also enable any other setup as default, but mirror seems safest for hotplugging [presentations etc])
<ochosi> right, but are we even actively supporting that?
<bluesabre> I've tested 8 with vbox :)
<ochosi> craaaaazy!
<ochosi> i mean good if it works
<bluesabre> it does, surprisingly :D
<ochosi> yeah, quite so
<bluesabre> but yeah, we can start thinking about that
<ochosi> tbh i've been so consumed by other things in the last weeks that i'm not really very aware of potential TODOs right now
<ochosi> so if there's anything you'd like to work on with me, tonight would be a good night ;)
<ochosi> (tonight, my time, which starts about now)
<ochosi> (gah, too many commas...)
<bluesabre> potentially
<bluesabre> for now, its lunch time around here, but I'll bbiab
<ochosi> okeydokey, bon appetit!
<bluesabre> if there is anything you're interested in working on, let me know and we can tackle that
<ochosi> cool
<ochosi> sounds good
<ochosi> i'll compile a list or something in the meantime
<brainwash_> if there's some time left, please look at the recent xfce4-settings lp reports
<ochosi> brainwash_: sorry, i had to bulk-delete all the launchpad bugmail when i returned from my 1week break, any bugs in particular?
<brainwash_> reports which address display related issues
<brainwash_> there are quite few
<brainwash_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-settings/+bugs?orderby=-id&start=0
<brainwash_> the 14xxxxx - range
<ochosi> phu, all those display bugs are extremely hard to tackle/fix, when most of the time you can't reproduce and there are so many driver/hw combinations
<ochosi> alright, closed one.
<ochosi> brainwash_: any reason why you didn't close that one? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-settings/+bug/1458428
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1458428 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "XFCE Display Settings Will not start" [Undecided,New]
<ochosi> i mean yeah, maybe that error message could be a bit more informative
<brainwash_> just waiting for a response from the reporter
<brainwash_> you are right, the error message is a bit cryptic
<brainwash_> shouldn't there be more reports about this? is this a recent change somewhere?
<ochosi> i'm not sure, i haven't used amd hw in ages
<brainwash_> what about the nvidia driver? does it support randr?
<ochosi> also, people who use proprietary drivers have to install them by hand and iirc the respective settings tool gets installed alongside
<ochosi> yeah, it does. i've done my fair share of testing with nvidia + xfce4-display-settings
<brainwash_> ok then
<brainwash_> feel free to close the report
<ochosi> i'll do that when bluesabre returns from his endless lunching
<ochosi> maybe he has more input
<bluesabre> hihi
<bluesabre> oh god, fglrx
<bluesabre> ochosi: poke
<ochosi> bluesabre: great timing, now i'm getting ready for dinner..
<bluesabre> :p
<ochosi> bluesabre: i'll be around in a minute
<bluesabre> message from the future!
<ochosi> :)
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, Do you have time to sponsor xfpm?
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: sure, can do
<bluesabre> currently working on the xfdesktop merge, unless you've already done that one
<Noskcaj> only stuff i've done is mousepad and xfpm
<bluesabre> cool
<bluesabre> then yeah, got a bug or debdiff for me?
<Noskcaj> http://paste.ubuntu.com/11356852/
<Noskcaj> The ubuntu to new debdiff
<Noskcaj> actually, changelog is broken there, one second
<Noskcaj> http://pastebin.com/R1RW6h2u is the fixed debdiff
<bluesabre> looks good
<Noskcaj> I'll merge thunar if no one is doing that
<bluesabre> we might be able to just sync thunar, the gvfs issues should be fully resolved
<Noskcaj> I can't see "udisks" is the thunar code, so how much does it actually do?
<bluesabre> as I understand it, it was an issue with gvfs depends, didn't pull enough for the automounting to work
<bluesabre> now gvfs correctly pulls what it needs
<bluesabre> I'll probably go ahead and sync thunar tonight once syncpackage sees the new release, and we can reintroduce that patch if needed later
<Noskcaj> sounds good
<Noskcaj> If you have upload rights for the xfce4 metapackage, can you sync it too?
<ochosi> alright, i'm back
<ochosi> so, what did i miss?
<elfy> well ... 
<elfy> :p
<ochosi> i see some syncing, but i thought maybe bluesabre was up to other stuff as well
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: I don't have upload rights for the meta
<Noskcaj> ok, i'll just leave a sync bug then
<bluesabre> going to experiment with adding it to the supported seed
<bluesabre> go ahead
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> hi ochosi
<ochosi> knome: elementary upstream have added a rather nice keyboard icon, i have to admit: http://i.imgur.com/dlQ6P1l.png
<knome> but that looks nowhere near my keyboard, shoo!
<bluesabre> yeah, my keyboard is black and has a numpad, lame
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: you mentioned exo-gtk3 a shorter while ago
<ochosi> have you started with that yet or do you know how much work it would be?
<ochosi> i presume it's too much work for the two of us and one evening?
<bluesabre> merged Nick's branch here http://git.xfce.org/xfce/exo/commit/?id=cd1611c78a1641a0917d3528c2d592ec32d1c323
<bluesabre> apparently, that's everything except widgets
<ochosi> you're planning to support both gtk2+3 at first?
<ochosi> what widgets were there again? (apart from that iconbar that nobody uses anymore)
<bluesabre> pretty sure that's going to be a requirement
<bluesabre> thunar is the main user of exo, but the plugins do too
<bluesabre> towards the bottom of that commit, you can see what is not enabled in gtk3
<bluesabre> +#if !GTK_CHECK_VERSION (3, 0, 0)
<ochosi> yeah, that's what i was looking at
<ochosi> that's cool though, that way you can even do a release and exclude certain widgets
<ochosi> so yeah, i'd say icon-bar can either be dropped or doesn't have to get ported
<bluesabre> yeah, thought I might leave it open for a week or two and try to get some of those widgets ported
<ochosi> is there any way to test them though?
<ochosi> sounds like a small test-programme would help
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, What's the plan with xfce4-panel? Debian split a separate gtk3 library out, is it ok for us to keep that?
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: we'll need to update xfce4-indicator-plugin for the split packages, since it depends on both
<bluesabre> ochosi: I think we can just start with getting it to compile, then fix things as ports-in-progress find issues
<ochosi> ok, so the first release will just compile and be sort of untested
<ochosi> sounds like an ok strategy
<bluesabre> yup, a very dev release ;)
<ochosi> might be a while until thunar is at that point though
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> that's ok though
<bluesabre> I think thunar will be blocked by https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11556 though
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 11556 in Iconview "gioscheduler deprecation warnings cause build failure" [Minor,New]
<bluesabre> so really, the first goal might be to get exo to compile with debug again
<bluesabre> by fixing that and other issues
<ochosi> yeah, oh right, that one
<ochosi> that makes sense
<bluesabre> ochosi: here's one for you and eric_the_idiot https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-settings/+bug/1458678
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1458678 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "xfce appearance settings windows crashes occasionally " [Undecided,New]
<ochosi> oh nice
<ochosi> alright, i commented
<bluesabre> cool
<bluesabre> productive day :)
<ochosi> yup, especially when compared to other days in the recent past ;)
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, https://launchpad.net/~noskcaj/+archive/ubuntu/staging/+packages has panel and indicator-plugin ready for upload. I'm just going to install it locally now to check
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: cool, good work
<Noskcaj> Does anyone here have a dvd burner they can test xfburn with? corsac and i don't, so we need someone else to test 0.5.4 before we upload it to debian
<Noskcaj> I lied, panel isn't ready for upload. I'll try and get it fixed
<ochosi> Noskcaj: i might, what needs testing exactly?
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: I can give it a shot... any particular formats, or would a xubuntu dvd be enough?
<Noskcaj> Just making sure the package works
<ochosi> conga-rats Noskcaj ;)
<Noskcaj> ty
<Noskcaj> Is xfpm ok to upload to wily or does it need testing first?
<ochosi> you mean 1.5.0 that i released approx 2mins ago? :>
<Noskcaj> yes
<bluesabre> might need to take it for a spin... want to upload it to xubuntu-staging?
<Noskcaj> sounds safer
<bluesabre> we can test it there initially
<ochosi> yeah, staging is the place to go
<ochosi> lots of new stuff in it
<Noskcaj> Is the loss of the lxpanel plugin going to be an issue for lubuntu>
<ochosi> i'm already afraid of the bugreports that might generate
<Noskcaj> *?
<ochosi> nope, we kept the trayicon around
<ochosi> so they can use that
<ochosi> problem is, their panel doesn't support gtk3 plugins
<ochosi> and since they're moving to qt, it doesn't make sense for them to add support for that
<bluesabre> lxqt might not make it in time for 15.10 though
<ochosi> yeah, true, but as i said, trayicon
<ochosi> also, we've been in touch with them
<ochosi> iirc gilir said the trayicon is ok for them
<Noskcaj> cool
<bluesabre> they can also test it from the -staging ppa
<ochosi> but yeah, let's put it in staging and see what works and what doesn't
<bluesabre> we can ping them or test ourselves
<ochosi> indeed, we should definitely motivate them to do that
<Noskcaj> One other thing, is libsystemd-login-dev still needed? It's deprecated
<ochosi> hmm, i'm not sure who in the lxde team is on irc
<ochosi> Unit193 will know
<Noskcaj> ochosi, for lubuntu, just gilir in terms of devel
<ochosi> actually, gilir is rarely on irc afaik
<Noskcaj> yeah, he much prefers email
<ochosi> so yeah, lemme know when you got 1.5.0 in -staging and we can drop him a few lines
<ochosi> btw, what do you guys think of a follow-up post re: xubuntu-core?
<ochosi> unit shared some very nice stats with me that we could blog
<Noskcaj> I'll have to go to school soon, i'll hopefully have time to do xfpm tomorrow morning.
<ochosi> sure, no rush
<ochosi> only, when one of you puts it up, lemme know
<bluesabre> ofc
<bluesabre> ochosi: yeah, the stats for xubuntu-core are pretty cool
<bluesabre> aaaaaand it gives us something to blog about
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> now we only have to find a wordsmith
<knome> to press the words?
<knome> or in other words,
<knome> for the wordpressing?
<ochosi> i see a volunteer!
<knome> where?
 * knome looks around
<ochosi> always the one who asks!
 * genii hides behind Unit193
<knome> sure...
<knome> genii, are you saying you think that's the best place to hide since Unit193 is the biggest guy in the room or what?
<genii> ..not intentionally ....
<knome> no?
<knome> :P
<Noskcaj> If someone has time can they work out why https://launchpadlibrarian.net/207464343/buildlog_ubuntu-wily-amd64.xfce4-indicator-plugin_2.3.3-0ubuntu3~ppa1_BUILDING.txt.gz is broken?
<Noskcaj> I'll be back later
<ochosi> time to head to bed, night everyone!
<bluesabre> night ochosi
#xubuntu-devel 2015-05-26
<bluesabre> micahg: should adding packages like this to 'supported' add them to the packageset? http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/ubuntu-seeds/xubuntu.wily/revision/983
<Unit193> elfy: Basically, whatever you feel good with, and gives you the least work.  So that sounds good.
<Unit193> That's a lot of backlog, btw. :P
<Unit193> bluesabre: Super+tab is entirely awesome, I use it so very often and 'tis why Openbox breaks my workflow.
<Unit193> ochosi: I can poke Lubuntu for trayicon testing if you need, sure.
<micahg> bluesabre: yes, I believe it should
<Unit193> \o/
<ochosi> Unit193: yes, that would be great. we already have a bugreport against the trayicon, but well, more testing won't hurt
<ochosi> and morning all
<elfy> morning :)
<elfy> Unit193: downside being we'd be putting https://unit193.net/xubuntu/core/ on tracker 
<ochosi> elfy: do you still have xfpm 1.5.0 installed on your testbox?
<elfy> oh bah - no icon
<elfy> no idea - still got whatever I built from git
<ochosi> ok, that's good
<Unit193> Oh?
<ochosi> wait, you don't have an icon now?
<elfy> nope
<ochosi> awesome
<elfy> ... 
<ochosi> ok, i guess it's time to reopen that bugreport then i guess
<elfy> no idea what's different between this restart and the dozen I did after building it yesterday 
<ochosi> tbh i wasn't very convinced by the fix when i saw it
<ochosi> it wasn't very logical, it just seems that sometimes upower doesn't return the icon name correctly or something
<ochosi> but what i don't get is why the fallback isn't being displayed at all times
<ochosi> anyway, hopefully we'll have 1.5.0 in -staging soon, then testing will be easier
<elfy> \o/ 
 * ochosi glances at Unit193 
<elfy> ochosi: I commented on the bug 
<ochosi> that was one reason for me to do the release yesterday
<ochosi> thanks elfy!
<elfy> I saaw talk of it going to staging - I'll watch for that 
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, panel 4.12 is working in my ppa, nothing broken locally. DO you want to upload it or should it go in xubuntu-staging?
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: xubuntu-staging please so elfy and the others can pick it up
<bluesabre> Unit193: cool, didn't see any of the new packages in the packageset today, maybe micahg can run the update script for us :)
<knome> GridCube, let's move the actual discussion here, actually..
<knome> i would say deviantart is better at least now, since i don't think we want to maintain any submission thing
<knome> but i still think that there needs to be another way to participate, so if not else, there needs to be somebody that can take submissions and post them to deviantart/our own queue
<GridCube> we just need people to upload a link to an imgur image for example and they to mark that they are licensing, i think that should be less confusing to people who doesnt have a dA and needs to send a mail or something to me and all that
<knome> managing the to-be-featured list in a wiki is a good idea
<knome> yes, that works as well
<knome> ideally, we should be looking at all of our social media for those, but that means people need to be proactive
<knome> i mean people in the team
<knome> and since that's not always possible, it's a bit meh
<GridCube> a simple form that says URL:  and a disclaimer that says clearly "You are submitting an image and providing us with a CC3 share alike licence, and you are sure all images you provide in the screenshot are the same"
<knome> the point is, it's not "simple"
<knome> creating that is, sure
<knome> getting that through the IS pipeline and to xubuntu.org and maintaining it not simple, it's a lot of maintaining overhead
<lderan> bah
<knome> wah?
<lderan> to the lots of overhead
<knome> yeah well
<lderan> aye
<micahg> bluesabre: I can get someone to run it
<GridCube> knome: maybe hosting it somewhere else?
<knome> GridCube, that is just as good as imgur/deviantart/name the service really, since it's not "official"
<knome> but let's not get into the technical details... we just need the project happening
<GridCube> alright
<GridCube> ill see to restart the dA group and look around to see if i can find a more efficient way to get submissions
<knome> thanks
<knome> and as always, let me know if there's something you need help with
<knome> i'll either draft an email to set the final pieces together, or add an item to the meeting agenda soonish
<knome> (or both)
<GridCube> ok
<lderan> poke me GridCube if there is anything i can do, think i can remember my dA login lol
<GridCube> :)
<GridCube> will do lderan 
<rafaellaguna> o/
<knome> hello
<rafaellaguna> hello brothers! :)
<rafaellaguna> ochosi, are you here?
<ochosi> sort of
<rafaellaguna> :)
<rafaellaguna> we're discussing about xfce4-notify daemon problems on lubuntu desktop
<knome> ochosi, sort of are, or sort of here?
<rafaellaguna> when will you be available for a chat?
<knome> rafaellaguna, this isn't answering for ochosi, or this situation explicitly, but generally (at least on this channel): just type out your worries and we'll reply when we read it
<rafaellaguna> okay, sorry, I thought he was "in charge"
<rafaellaguna> this is the situation: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-notifyd/+bug/1362555
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1362555 in xfce4-notifyd (Ubuntu) "notification dialog has horizonal bars" [Low,Triaged]
<knome> rafaellaguna, well he's in charge for his own words... ;)
<rafaellaguna> lol
<knome> rafaellaguna, but as i said, we generally welcome all discussions here without needing to ask permission
<rafaellaguna> good to know :)
<rafaellaguna> I come from a channel that uses to be more "chaotic"
<knome> mhm, the people here usually behave well
 * knome hides the whip a bit better
<elfy>  ...
<rafaellaguna> :D
<knome> except elfy of course, he's the worst troll ever
<rafaellaguna> we're all trolls
<rafaellaguna> that's why we have an alternative non-dev channel for Lubuntu things, but 85% of our chat is sex, music, etc
<knome> #xubuntu-offtopic :P
<rafaellaguna> anyway, we have this bug for three releases now. it's affecting LXDE and MATE
<brainwash_> and you did not forward it upstream yet?
<rafaellaguna> but MATE uses its own notify daemon, so they don't really know about this. but Lubuntu uses xfce4-notifyd, and it's using the panel background for its own background. odd
<rafaellaguna> any clue?
<knome> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-notifyd/+bug/1362555/comments/6 <- that?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1362555 in xfce4-notifyd (Ubuntu) "notification dialog has horizonal bars" [Low,Triaged]
<rafaellaguna> nope. already tried that 
<rafaellaguna> it fails with all themes, including those downloaded from gnome-look.org, for example
<brainwash_> and bug 1337303 ?
<ubottu> bug 1337303 in xfce4-notifyd (Ubuntu) "xfce4-notifyd uses tiled image as background " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1337303
<rafaellaguna> the funny thing is there's no background specified in its gtrc, but it takes one
<rafaellaguna> duplicated bug
<brainwash_> ye :)
<rafaellaguna> I think I must locate the coder, not the packager. or call an exorcist :D
<ochosi> ok, now i'm around
<ochosi> rafaellaguna: what's up?
<rafaellaguna> O.O
<ochosi> ah, i remember that bugreport
<rafaellaguna> yes, but as it's not affecting XFCE or Xubuntu users at all, it's "a bit ignored" :(
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> without looking at your theme code, i'd say that's the problem
<ochosi> where's your theme at?
<rafaellaguna> I tried fixing it, using 3rd party themes, but nothing happened
<ochosi> lubuntu-artwork?
<rafaellaguna> I'm using default theme for Lubuntu. but it happens with Elementary, Greybird, Yosemite, and all that uses a dedicated image for the panel
<rafaellaguna> it automatically sets as notification background too
<ochosi> jeeez, you're using the unico engine for lubuntu-artwork?
<ochosi> well then it's likely that the themes are at fault
<rafaellaguna> yes :( for the moment
<rafaellaguna> why? I'm removing it, anyway
<rafaellaguna> remember that lubuntu-theme is just a "fork" of Radiance
<ochosi> well i never knew, so no way i could remember that
<ochosi> so yeah, in xubuntu your theme works as expected
<rafaellaguna> I expect it to work nice :)
<rafaellaguna> it might be an interaction between xfce4-notify and our daemon
<rafaellaguna> *settings daemon
<ochosi> ehm, first of all, why do you have your xfce4-notifyd style in two places? that can't be a good idea
<rafaellaguna> no, I removed the one in /apps
<rafaellaguna> the daemon will only look for its config in its folder
<ochosi> well, i'm using 15.04 and that's what i get
<rafaellaguna> yes, that modification isn't included in that release
<ochosi> so how do i get the most recent version of your theme then?
<rafaellaguna> it's in the PPA
<ochosi> and the source?
<rafaellaguna> ppa:lubuntu-artwork/daily
<ochosi> i don't need a PPA, just the source (git, bzr) is fine
<rafaellaguna> lp:lubuntu-artwork
<rafaellaguna> https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-art/+archive/ubuntu/daily
<ochosi> so within xfce4-notifyd-settings you have selected Lubuntu-default as theme, right?
<rafaellaguna> yes
<rafaellaguna> so it uses the folder inside the theme, of course
<ochosi> i'm pretty sure the problem is one of these lines: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~lubuntu-art/lubuntu-artwork/quantal/view/head:/src/usr/share/themes/Lubuntu-default/gtk-2.0/apps/lubuntu_lxpanel.rc#L93
<ochosi> you're matching some widget within xfce4-notifyd with that "theme-panel" style and then you get the tiles
<ochosi> you could comment line by line until you find the offender
<rafaellaguna> widget "*PanelWidget*" ?
<ochosi> no, all lines that set "style "theme-panel""
<rafaellaguna> but it's supposed that the notifier only uses "XfceNotifyWindow" as widget definition
<ochosi> no, it inherits other stuff from the theme that is currently in use as well
<ochosi> the alternative to searching for the offender is to explicitely set a background in your notifyd-theme
<ochosi> those are the two pointers i can give you
<rafaellaguna> OMG, this looks very suspicious: "idget_class "*notif*"			style "theme-panel""
<rafaellaguna> *widget_class
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> it does
<rafaellaguna> I feel stupid now :D
<ochosi> no worries, happens to everyone ;)
<ochosi> and all in all, it didn't take long for us to get here
<rafaellaguna> ok, I'll try to comment those widgets and see what happens
<rafaellaguna> yes, more eyes involved :)
<ochosi> sure thing
<ochosi> gotta take off to dinner now
<rafaellaguna> ok, thanks a lot!
<rafaellaguna> I'll try right now!
<ochosi> good luck meanwhile, and as knome said, if you need help, just ping and i'll reply when i'm back
<rafaellaguna> ochosi, I'll tell you if it works
<rafaellaguna> ta mate!
<ochosi> good good ;)
<ochosi> (actually you dont have to cause i'm subscribed to your bugreport)
<rafaellaguna> okay, but if it gets fixed you'll now here too :D
<rafaellaguna> o/
<brainwash_> Noskcaj: any idea what's broken here? bug 1399799
<ubottu> bug 1399799 in garcon (Ubuntu) "missed some languages in xfce-settings.directory" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1399799
<rafaellaguna> o/
<knome> hello again
<rafaellaguna> helo knome :)
<rafaellaguna> I've had to get back to tell you: http://lubuntublog.blogspot.com.es/2015/05/notifications-fixed.html
<rafaellaguna> :)
<knome> good to hear
<rafaellaguna> yes, it is :) a bit late, it didn't upload with the distro release, but nice anyway
<rafaellaguna> so thanks to you all
<rafaellaguna> and to ochosi :)
<lderan> \o/
<rafaellaguna> o/ lderan 
<Noskcaj> brainwash_, Just some compile-time thing. We had this issue already, i forget what package with. It should just need a rebuild
<brainwash_> Noskcaj: so, close the report and say that the issue is (or will be) fixed in later releases?
<Noskcaj> It's fixed in later releases, if you have time this might be worth an SRU
<Noskcaj> Just double-check it is fixed though
<brainwash_> I won't touch anything SRU related
<brainwash_> it's not even SRU worthy, or?
<Noskcaj> not really worth, but it won't break anything so it would probably get through
<brainwash_> I fear that there won't be anyone to verify the potential update =S
<brainwash_> Noskcaj: want to update the bug status?
<Noskcaj> done
<brainwash_> thanks
<Noskcaj> new panel, new xfburn in xubuntu-staging
<Noskcaj> xfpm will be in a few minutes
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, ochosi: Does xfpm still need libsystemd-login-dev for logind?
<Noskcaj> It's a transitional package that provides a .pc file and depends on libsystemd-dev
<brainwash_> should be libsystemd-dev
<brainwash_> starting with 15.04
<Unit193> Noskcaj: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/pkg-xfce-devel/2015-March/020066.html
<ochosi> rafaellaguna: good to hear. one more thing/hint: you could make the title/heading of the notifications bold. that tends to look good
<rafaellaguna> yes, they are. I just invoked from the command line to do the screenshot
<rafaellaguna> but summary is bold in the theme
<Noskcaj> Unit193, corsac already dropped that one, i'm just checking there's no hidden need for the .pc file
<rafaellaguna> so THAAAANKS ochosi 
<ochosi> ah ok :)
<ochosi> np, yw
<rafaellaguna> btw, I didn't know you were you
<ochosi> well, what can i say. i am me.
<rafaellaguna> I mean, I knew your work at shimmer project before yourself :D
<ochosi> i think we got in touch a looong time ago, pretty much when lubuntu became lubuntu
<rafaellaguna> yes
<rafaellaguna> at the very beginning
<ochosi> anyway, good to see you stick around
<rafaellaguna> me too
<rafaellaguna> I'm a fan :)
<ochosi> i guess now's not the time to invest heavily into redoing your gtk theme, since you'll be moving to qt soonish
<rafaellaguna> yes, we're working on it
<ochosi> hehe, well, enjoy it as long as you can time-wise ;)
<rafaellaguna> I will :D
<rafaellaguna> and I'll keep you informed
<rafaellaguna> nite, guys and girls!
<Noskcaj> xfpm is now in staging
<ochosi> nice, thanks Noskcaj, i'll give it a try
<ochosi> anything you noticed during packaging/testing so far?
<Noskcaj> panel with xfpm 1.4.4 had 2 battery indicators, but i'll install 1.5.0 now and see how well it works
<Unit193> Noskcaj: You sure you didn't have indicator-power installed?
<Noskcaj> Unit193, I probably do, just pointing out it appeared due to the panel merge
<ochosi> Noskcaj: great, i'd be happy about any feedback there
<Noskcaj> Unit193, not installed
<elfy> ochosi: seem to have icon there now
<elfy> and got the staging one 
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> well, since you said that you randomely don't get one, i'm still concerned tbh
<elfy> yep
<ochosi> also, someone else reported a missing trayicon today with 1.5.0
<elfy> got a pointer to what logs might be the ones to look in perhaps? 
<ochosi> there's not much magic happening there, basically we use the "icon-name" return value from upower, which you can also read via "upower -d" and provide a fallback in case upower doesn't provide a value
<ochosi> i guess it's actually time to read gnome-power-manager's source and see whether they do anything special for their battery indicator
<elfy> mmk
<elfy> wandering now
<ochosi> what you can do though, you can save the output of upower -d when the icon is there and compare it to when it isn't at some point
<ochosi> that could be valuable
<bluesabre> good evening folks
<ochosi> oh hey bluesabre 
<ochosi> hmm, anyone with any gnome3 experience here?
<bluesabre> hey ochosi
<bluesabre> ochosi: ish, whats the question?
<ochosi> frankly i have no clue what displays the battery icon in gnome shell
<ochosi> maybe it's somewhere in gnome shell itself now
<ochosi> doesn't seem to be in gnome-power-manager anymore, that one only draws graphs or stuff
<bluesabre> oh, no idea for that
<bluesabre> maybe ping satya?
<bluesabre> since they're building a shell on top of gonme3
<ochosi> not sure he'll know, this is really a question about the *inner* workings of gnome, not the styling/looks
<ochosi> oh true
<ochosi> bluesabre: you can try xfpm1.5 now btw ;)
<ochosi> looking forward to your feedback, especially since you have some devices that might finally show up there
<bluesabre> ochosi: panel icon is black, system tray icon is blue, settings icons are gnome
<ochosi> ok, you need to use the latest elementary-xfce to resolve that
<bluesabre> ah, gotcha
<ochosi> also, i found what i was looking for. it's scary, so little code. i wonder why we have so much (ok ok, this is js vs. c): https://github.com/GNOME/gnome-shell/blob/master/js/ui/status/power.js
<bluesabre> interestingly, upower no longer recognizes my mouse these days
<ochosi> i guess it's a feature...
<ochosi> it also thinks that my bt keyboard is a battery
<bluesabre> very nice
<bluesabre> my headphones are at work
<ochosi> on the plus side, it actually displays the battery status of the keyboard now
<ochosi> i wonder, i really wonder, why do they use "system-shutdown-symbolic" as a fallback icon when there is no battery
<ochosi> actually i guess i'd have to use gnome-shell at some point, maybe it'd actually make more sense then..
<bluesabre> or less
<ochosi> yeah, who knows
<ochosi> have you tried using elementary-xfce daily build?
<bluesabre> last commit March 27?
<ochosi> yup
<bluesabre> already running the latest then
<ochosi> wat? that is weird
<bluesabre> http://i.imgur.com/fIxFSQL.png
<ochosi> that's almost impossible
<ochosi> i dropped all those fake symbolic icons for batteries
<bluesabre> lol
<bluesabre> I'll try with the guest user
<ochosi> thanks
<ochosi> i'll upgrade to 1.5 from staging myself now
<bluesabre> no diff
<ochosi> oh crap, no 15.04 yet?
<ochosi> i guess we should copy that over or something
<bluesabre> I'll backport it now
<ochosi> ty
<ochosi> hm, right, hadn't pushed the new settings icon yet
<ochosi> guess i need to draw a few more sizes for that one though
<bluesabre> :p
<bluesabre> panel will build, the will copy indicator-plugin and xfpm to vivid -staging
<bluesabre> *then
<ochosi> k, thanks
<ochosi> almost there with the remaining sizes of the settings icon
<ochosi> bluesabre: ok, pushed the icons. so one more thing should look right for you now ;)
<bluesabre> ochosi: cool, importing and then will build in the shimmerproject daily ppa
<ochosi> nice
<ochosi> gotta hit the sack about now though
<ochosi> i'll test xfpm tomorrow when the backport is done
<bluesabre> cool
<bluesabre> have a good night ochosi
<ochosi> oh also, if you find time to add those infamouse "three lines" to catfish for CSD support, i'd be more than excited to see that :)
<bluesabre> :)
<micahg> bluesabre: let me know if you need an official backport of something (easier to do with leaf packages)
<bluesabre> micahg: ok, will do.. for now these are just ppa versions that need to be available in the vivid ppa
<ochosi> good night all!
<bluesabre> seeya ochosi
<bluesabre> ochosi: the new power manager icon is snazzy
#xubuntu-devel 2015-05-27
<Unit193> bluesabre: Debian Bug #786582 :P
<ubottu> Debian bug 786582 in xfce4-smartbookmark-plugin "xfce4-smartbookmark-plugin: FTBFS in Ubuntu due to patch fuzz" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/786582
<Unit193> Maybe 786620.
<micahg> Unit193: it's already fixed in svn
<Unit193> micahg: Right, yeppers.  I think I saw that, but good to know for sure.
<micahg> I meant to upload as 1svn1, but got tired of fighting with svn-buildpackage
<micahg> I guess Loga-n went and fixed it
<micahg> "fixed"
<micahg> :)
<Unit193> Oi, yeah...  I need to figure that out, used to gbp myself.
<micahg> I test built fine, but couldn't get it to spit out a package without needing to commit
<Unit193> I'll have to bug you about a good page for the workflow sometime. :P
<GridCube> knome, http://xubuntu-showcase.deviantart.com/blog/535637153/
<Unit193> \o
<ochosi> morning all
<elfy> morning ochosi 
<ochosi> wtf, now i can reproduce that problem with the black icon and xfpm1.5
<ochosi> time to investigate...
<Unit193> :D
<elfy> lol - I've got the icon currently ... 
<ochosi> awesome, it seems eric broke it with his last commit :'(
<ochosi> guess i should've reviewed that more closely before releasing 1.5
<ochosi> however, we still have some old icons there in xubuntu-artwork
<ochosi> so yeah, it really doesn't use symbolic icons now
<bluesabre> elfy: now we can say ochosi is the crazy one :)
 * lderan wonders how much extra crazy one needs to have to be the crazy one here
 * bluesabre remembers knome holding that title for a while
<bluesabre> it might come with XPL
<knome> i was too crazy so i dropped the glass trophy and thus lost the title
 * ochosi rolls his eyes frantically and hops on his desk
<knome> now you have two desks
<knome> two TWO-LEGGED desks
<bluesabre> New Ikea line of minimalistic desks?
<knome> i think elfy has one of those two-legged desks... no kidding
<bluesabre> sounds about right, I think Unit193 mentioned something about those too
<bluesabre> we should check with pleia2 if she has any recollection about that
<ochosi> bluesabre: anyhoo, what i noticed is that i need to refresh xubuntu-artwork, it still has some of the fake symbolic icons
<knome> ultimately, i think it's better to ask slickymasterWork to verify
<bluesabre> 21:D
<bluesabre> where'd that 21 come from, meh :D
<ochosi> very short password?
<knome> did you try to fake your age on an alcohol-related site?
<bluesabre> probably both
<lderan> woo
<bluesabre> ochosi: cool, will that fix xfpm, or does it also need an update?
<ochosi> btw, since you guys are around, shall we finally set up some blueprints for w?
<bluesabre> we need to
<ochosi> bluesabre: nah, the last commit by eric broke xfpm's icons :/
<knome> i was going to ask when you'd like to do that the other day
<bluesabre> I think feature definition freeze is tomorrow...
<knome> hahah
<knome> well,
<knome> there isn't much plans for website
<knome> at least anything that is cycle deadline related
<knome> but FDF is just... blah anyway
<bluesabre> dev plans: update catfish/menulibre/parole, wiggle around libreoffice packages... maybe the overlay that I've been lazy on for a few years
<knome> i think it's a historical artefact from time when community actually was involved with the main OS spec planning..
<ochosi> still empty, but here goes the umbrella bp: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/topic-w-flavor-xubuntu
<bluesabre> knome: re website, we wanted to revamp the FAQs and such, right?
<knome> somebody create a pad so i can dump my workitems there while playing FIFA
<knome> bluesabre, yes
<knome> bluesabre, i'll also look more into adding artwork there
<knome> bluesabre, and also update the "get involved" section
<knome> (that's WIP already)
<bluesabre> yeah
<ochosi> i'll start setting up the other blueprints now
<lderan> cool
<ochosi> bluesabre: what about panel-switch`?
<bluesabre> can also bump the dev documentation, since our little xubuntu-dev family keeps getting bigger
<bluesabre> ochosi: yeah: panel switch can be finished early this cycle
<bluesabre> I guess another dev thing is getting xubuntu-core on cdimage... maybe?
<knome> bluesabre, sgt-puzzles launcher
<bluesabre> knome: that too
<bluesabre> man, I really do have a todo list
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> bluesabre: please just jot down everything here: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-w-features
<ochosi> wait, i might've screwed up the dependency tree there
<ochosi> :)
<bluesabre> I think "Development" might be a better title than New Features at this point
<bluesabre> we're pretty stable these days
<ochosi> ok, i'm fine with that too
<ochosi> i can remove the bp again (or rename)
<bluesabre> your call, boss :)
<ochosi> i'm wondering, i guess the right assignee would be xubuntu-dev, not xubuntu-team
<ochosi> anyway, done
<ochosi> so go ahead, work your magic bluesabre ;)
<bluesabre> woot
<ochosi> elfy: please check out https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-w-qa
<knome> ochosi, i suggest just creating -community for community+web+marketing
<ochosi> ok, fine by me
<knome> we can split later if needed
<ochosi> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-w-community
<ochosi> would be good if you could note that straight away in the bp
<knome> actually i think i'll create another one for -web
<knome> because then the LP teams make sense
<ochosi> k
 * knome does magics
<slickymasterWork> ask me what ochosi, knome?
<ochosi> slickymasterWork: i didn't wanna ask you anything, however, your blueprint link is coming up in a minute..
<knome> slickymasterWork, i was just messing around with everybody later
<slickymasterWork> heh, I was wondering when will we start seting up those
<knome> eh, earlier
<knome> :P
<slickymasterWork> ok
<ochosi> slickymasterWork: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-w-docs
<slickymasterWork> great, thanks ochosi 
<ochosi> sorry for being a bit late with that
<bluesabre> using the whiteboard here https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-w-development
<ochosi> knome: so no -marketing?
<bluesabre> !team | please add any items you'd like to be considered for development this cycle https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-w-development
<bluesabre> never ever ever works for me
<knome> ochosi, there is no marketing LP team, let's group it under .community
<knome> - too
<bluesabre> !team
<ubottu> bluesabre, elfy, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster, Unit193
<bluesabre> see above
<bluesabre> :)
<knome> ochosi, if pleia2 gets sad, then i'll split it for her
<knome> hmm, i'm not sure if that came out all right
<ochosi> hehe, "nice"
<bluesabre> ok, gotta run, bbl
<bluesabre> thanks for getting things rolling, guys
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> anyway, all blueprints set up
<ochosi> k, now the pinging begins...
<knome> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-w-community
<knome> pleia2, elfy: you have inherited work items in that BP (carried on from last cycle)
<ochosi> Unit193, Noskcaj: we've set up the development blueprint here. if you have ideas/suggestions, note them on the whiteboard for now. if you wanna take up one of the existing ideas as a task for 15.10, please add it as a workitem assigned to yourself: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-w-development
<bluesabre> lderan: you can pull something from that list as well, if you're interested
<bluesabre> (panel switch is an interesting one)
<ochosi> indeed
<ochosi> +1
<ochosi> lderan: actually it would be nice to track the meetingology stuff in the development blueprint
<knome> ochosi, i would vote for -communit
<knome> +y
<ochosi> yeah, that's fine too
<ochosi> just in some blueprint would be nice
<ochosi> otherwise it's not really on the radar
<knome> yep
<knome> ...bleep...bleep...bleep...
 * knome does his infamous radar imitation
<lderan> ochosi: oo
<elfy> knome: nope - I don't have a 2 legged desk - it has just the one 
<knome> even better :P
<elfy> totally :D
<elfy> ochosi: thanks ... I especially like the workitems 
<ochosi> yup, well obviously you gotta fill in the blanks yourself ;)
<elfy> collect Â£200 go straight to 100% on topic progress
<elfy> oh bah 
<elfy> knome: yep - expected that to turn up on the wibbly blueprint 
<elfy> the inheritance that is 
<elfy> bluesabre: was the -bugs blueprint at all useful? 
<elfy> oh nvm - I see ochosi built it :)
<slickymasterWork> knome at some point we'll have to gather to discuss the best approach to deal with the third item in https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-w-docs
<knome> yeah, +1 for -bugs
<ochosi> elfy: i pulled in the open bugs from 15.04 that made sense
<knome> slickymasterWork, propose dylan that he comes to IRC some time and schedule a meeting with us, him and somebody technical
<ochosi> elfy: feel free to add new ones as you notice them
<elfy> ochosi: ack
<ochosi> bluesabre: would you mind setting the "in development"-wallpaper for 15.10 when you're around again?
<slickymasterWork> ok, knome, I'll mail him and to schedule it and then I'll warn you and bluesabre of when it's going to be
<ochosi> elfy: ok, we have a fix for xfpm in git. if you wanna rebuild cleanly from git without any patches and test that...
<pleia2> so many pings
<pleia2> I thought I missed a meeting :)
<ochosi> well, sort of ;)
<pleia2> knome: thanks for updating the blueprints
<ochosi> pleia2: so i didn't set up a marketing blueprint cause knome said it should go in community
<pleia2> yeah, that's fine
<ochosi> k
<ochosi> if you feel you need one during the cycle, we can always set one up
 * pleia2 nods
<elfy> ochosi: ack - did that - have icon 
<ochosi> \o/
<ochosi> eric_the_idiot_: ^
<eric_the_idiot_> awesome!
<eric_the_idiot_> let us know if it goes missing later :)
<ochosi> elfy: i guess if you added the shimmer daily ppa for an up-to-date elementary-xfce, all the icons should be fixed now
<ochosi> incl the symbolic icons for the plugin
<elfy> ochosi: had that since whenever
<elfy> and symbolic icons is one of those it's an ellipse no it's not things ... 
<elfy> wouldn't know a symbolic icon from not 
<elfy> though it doesn't appear any different than before to me
<elfy> changes when panel size increases
<elfy> eric_the_idiot_: ack 
<elfy> mmm 
<elfy> synaptic showing xfpm from staging 
<elfy> I guess it'd not show the one I built from git 
<Unit193> bluesabre: Libreoffice also includes x-d-s update.
<micahg> I'm working on the packagesets now FWIW
<ochosi> elfy: yeah, you'd have to uninstall first
<elfy> ochosi: that's what I thought
<elfy> so I did - which removes the other 2 xfce4-power-*packages - then there's no plugin available to add to panel 
<ochosi> did you compile with "./autogen.sh --prefix=/usr"?
<elfy> http://pastebin.com/wMFXmxVx
<elfy> ochosi: ./autogen.sh --prefix=/usr --enable-debug=yes
<ochosi> k, sorry, i gotta run, i can look again tomorrow if that's ok
<elfy> of course it is :)
<ochosi> k, ttyl then :)
<micahg> is there a reason we're seeding apt-offline?
<Unit193> skellat had a reason.
 * micahg digs through bzr
<Unit193> It's in the docs too.
<Unit193> Think a meeting had it.  The docs has a very good write up though, linked to it elsewhere.  Think something along the lines of it being small and very useful for those in spotchy internet places.
<micahg> sigh, and he quotes me
<Unit193> Oh?
<micahg> ah, I see the comment now
<micahg> http://paste.ubuntu.com/11396952/
<micahg> sigh, ok, well, the packagesets aren't getting updated today :(
<Unit193> :(
<ochosi> micahg: any concerns wrt aptoffline or,are you trying to get us below 1gb? :)
<ochosi> sry, meh, typing sucks on the ipad
<micahg> ochosi: neither actually, trying to update the packageset first
#xubuntu-devel 2015-05-28
<cjbayliss> join #elementary
<cjbayliss> sorroy
 * cjbayliss forgot the '/'
<ochosi> morning everyone
<ochosi> elfy: lemme know when you're around for further testing instructions
<elfy> around for ~1 hour now - then back this afternoon - currently I am back with the -staging xfpm - ended up with none at all and screen turning off @10minutes without 
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> ok, wanna give git master another try? if not, that's fine too, i'll do a release maybe next week and that'll then land in -staging
<elfy> mmm 
<elfy> so removing staging xfpm marks -plugins for removal
<elfy> building from git - The program 'xfce4-power-manager' is currently not installed. You can install it by typing: when I try and run it
<elfy> got it 
<elfy> right - so got it built - xfpm running - but no power plugin available
<ochosi> but that used to work, no?
<elfy> yep
<ochosi> i'll quickly check myself
<elfy> ok 
<ochosi> hm, strange
<elfy> working for you? 
<ochosi> seems i can reproduce that part
<ochosi> i'll check what's going on there
<ochosi> i don't remember changing anything in the build process
<elfy> okey doke
<elfy> if you find something and change it let me know and when I'm about I will go for it :)
<ochosi> ok, thanks!
<elfy> don't sound so surprised :p
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> so it seems the plugin stuff does get built but not installed
<ochosi> i wonder why that would be, when nothing changed wrt build
<ochosi> oh
<elfy> I'll ponder the oh when I return - cya later :)
<ochosi> hehe, good. hf!
<ochosi> elfy: in case it only says "Build panel plugins:yes" after running autogen and not " Xfce plugins:          yes" below it, then you're missing some dependency
<ochosi> the main suspect would be libxfce4panel-2.0-dev
<ochosi> that is what was missing for me
<ochosi> also, please pull again from git, i pushed another tiny fix
<Noskcaj> ochosi, Do you want the ppa to build xfpm from git or is that too volatile?
<ochosi> actually for what we have in git master now, that'd be perfect for staging, if you have time
<ochosi> needs just a bit more testing and then i can go ahead and release 1.5.1
<elfy> ochosi: ack done that - built - added - have white icon now for the plugin - assume that's \o/ back off out now
<ochosi> elfy: yes! :) switch to a different theme with white panel and you'll see the magic
<Noskcaj> ochosi, Tomorrow morning i have to fix xfce 4.12 in tanglu, then i'll look into making that work
<ochosi> Noskcaj: no worries, elfy already (successfully) tested, so i'd say you can wait until there's a new dev-release
<Noskcaj> ok
<Noskcaj> I do need to learn launchpad recipes anyway though, i think they work in this situation
<ochosi> hey bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey ochosi
<ochosi> thanks for adding the workitems
<ochosi> the whole puzzles launcher only makes sense if we include the games by default, no?
<ochosi> or do you wanna upstream it or at least get it into the ubuntu package as a patch
<knome> yes and no; it will still be an improvement for those who install it
<knome> (hello)
<ochosi> yes and no?
<bluesabre> improve it for anybody, consider for xubuntu since they're good and tiny
<knome> makes sense only if we include, if you only want to think about xubuntu
<ochosi> right, but improving for anybody means upstreaming, no?
<knome> i believe the change needs to be in the package
<knome> eg. i don't think we want to go the route of overriding .desktop files
<ochosi> yeah, that'd definitely make the most sense
<bluesabre> ochosi: I think we should make Xubuntu Team the drafter (maybe) on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-w-development if we want others to be able to add to it
<knome> though i don't know if it's realistic to get it upstream-upstream (like in the source)
<knome> debian, likely
<ochosi> bluesabre: sure, feel free to change that
<bluesabre> done
<knome> bbl
<ochosi> bluesabre: btw, xfpm from git master should work fine now
<ochosi> i'm considering to fix one or two more bugs and then i'll do a 1.5.1
<ochosi> maybe i'll also add the feature for displaying the remaining time/percentage in the panel
<ochosi> (so the symbolic icons are used now)
<bluesabre> very cool
<bluesabre> debian seems ready to upload it to, we suggested to wait until 1.5.1
<bluesabre> *too
<bluesabre> :(
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> better
<ochosi> otherwise we might get a lot of duplicate bugreports
<ochosi> unless they wanna add the fixes in git master as distro patches
<ochosi> :}
<elfy> ochosi: yay - I assume that it turning to polka dots is right \o/ 
<Xubun> Hey guys.. I am an avid Xubuntu user and am a developer by day .. I would like to give some time to helping out whenever possible. I am new here though... 
<krytarik> Xubun: You could start by having a look at this: http://xubuntu.org/contribute/
<elfy> anyone else running wibbly with nvidia card? if so I randomly get this screen whiteout - have to reboot at wall - nouveau doesn'tgive the same trouble 
<Xubun> krytarik: Thanks. I would like to contribute towards Thunar or terminal 
<krytarik> Xubun: That'd be upstream Xfce then.
<krytarik> Xubun: #xfce-dev
<Xubun> krytarik: Perfect :) .. Thanks
<krytarik> Sure.
<astraljava> elfy: No, not really. Did you use the one from -updates?
<elfy> astraljava: yep
<pleia2> the latest xubuntu at draft post if anyone wants to have a browse http://xubuntu.org/?p=3189&preview=true
<elfy> pleia2: lovely :)
<astraljava> elfy: I have that driver on two machines, one is a desktop with GeForce 9600 GT card, the other is a laptop with GeForce 9400M G card. Neither of 'em give me trouble, except that I'm not sure whether the occasional problem for lightdm-greeter to appear is related.
<elfy> mmk
<elfy> I suspect this is one of those annoying local issues 
<astraljava> Seems so.
<elfy> now that I don'tplagued by the 10seconds till you see your real desktop thing I don't feel the need to use nvidia anyway tbh 
<astraljava> I just received this another laptop with Radeon graphics. And surprisingly, no issue with the proprietary driver on that one, either. 
<astraljava> Again, excepting the occasional greeter non-appearance after resume.
<elfy> right - rarely if ever suspend/resume here
<astraljava> Usually Xorg apologizes after that for having crashed. I'm not really sure who to blame for it, actually.
<elfy> blame bert astraljava 
<elfy> always and for everything
<astraljava> Works for me. :D
<elfy> and me - he's a bit depressed though,random people blame him for everything 
<astraljava> Well, I can't blame them, when you're urging everyone to do so! :p
 * astraljava doesn't even know who this mysterious bert character is...
 * dkessel scratches head
<dkessel> has mousepad been ported to gtk3 during vivid? i am confused. http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-qa-v-autopilot says it was using gkt2 at the beginning of the vivid cycle
<dkessel> good evening, btw :)
<dkessel> Unit193, i am wondering if there is anything one can help you with to get the xubuntu-core images hosted on cdimage.u.c
<Unit193> dkessel: Something like that, though I like the GTK2 one better.  I have no idea, because it's not hosting it there so much as building.
<dkessel> Unit193: "it"?
<Unit193> First is mousepad, second comment is xubuntu-core.
<dkessel> regarding core: ok, so i guess there are no preparations for that yet
<dkessel> mousepad in gtk3 is nice, as gtk2 previously blocked the autopilot tests
<Unit193> Yeah, but gtk2 is soo much nicer. :P
<Unit193> And yeah, not gotten anywhere with core yet.
<Unit193> I *may* be a little late for the meeting, but y'all can start without me right? :P
<astraljava> Oh yeah, the meeting. It's in an hour, right?
<Unit193> Righty-o.
<astraljava> got it
<pleia2> that means it's burrito time
<dkessel> enjoy your meal pleia2 :)
 * drc hands pleia2 some Imodium...just in case :)
<Unit193> \o/
<astraljava> Wait, doesn't that do just the opposite of what she might need? Or am I mixing drugs again?
<drc> It's a thinly veiled reference to a Big Bang line... "...I suggest you get on with it as the court had a dicey burrito for breakfast and just took an Imodium...". 
<drc> As " Imodium A-D has been used for years to treat diarrhea", I assume that one must hurry because it hasn't taken effect yet.
<astraljava> Oh ok, got it. :)
<dkessel> hah, what a good moment for an upgrade to wily...
<drc> check for any packages from Acme first....
 * dkessel gets packages, did not see any from Acme
<Unit193> #startmeeting Xubuntu community meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu May 28 20:00:22 2015 UTC.  The chair is Unit193. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<Unit193> #chair ochosi knome
<Unit193> Howdy and welcome to the Xubuntu community meeting.  Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<meetingology> Current chairs: Unit193 knome ochosi
<Unit193> Anyone here for the tacos?
<slickymaster> I haven't dinner yet Unit193 
<elfy> no thanks
<slickymaster> hey guys
<elfy> really must sort out a CTCP sod off message
<Unit193> elfy: Just means /me got messed up. :D
<Unit193> #topic Open action items
<Unit193> elfy to mail -dev list re Milestone participation during Wily cycle
<Unit193> That was done, I saw it.
<slickymaster> yeaps
<slickymaster> aw that too
<slickymaster> +s
<Unit193> elfy: Anything to note here?
<elfy> nope - apparently I can do whatever I want there
<Unit193> Pretty much.
<slickymaster> card blanc for elfy 
<Unit193> pleia2 to email list re: QA and incentives
<pleia2> o/
<Unit193> I saw that, there was a lot of them after I got back.
<elfy> that makes it easy - we'll follow ~Ubuntu's plan ... 
<Unit193> pleia2: Welcome!
<elfy> hi pleia2 
<Unit193> pleia2: Care to say anything here or just move on?
<slickymaster> evening pleia2 
<pleia2> I don't know that we have any end result from that thread
<Unit193> Sure,that's fine as well.
<pleia2> though I will say that the actual process of sending out stickers was no burden
<slickymaster> and thanks for sorting out that dead link in docs.xubuntu.org
<pleia2> just didn't seem like a valuable enterprise
<Unit193> Alright.
<Unit193> #topic Team updates
<dkessel> oh yeah, good job on updating the docs site!
<Unit193> Everyone have at it?
<elfy> #info xubuntu-qa - nothing done, still trying to plan wily cycle
<pleia2> #info pleia2 updated docs.xubuntu.org for 15.04
<pleia2> #info pleia2 has draft for latest Xubuntu At... post ready for review
<slickymaster> #info slickymaster Updated the documentation to showcase the replacement of Abiword and Gnumeric by LibreOffice Writer and Calc, respectively, and the the drop of Gimp
<Unit193> If there's nothing else?
<slickymaster> nothing frm me
<slickymaster> * from
<pleia2> that's all
<elfy> not as #info 
<Unit193> #topic Discussion items
<Unit193> #subtopic Rebooting the FAQ articles (mailing list discussion)
<slickymaster> only bluesabre replied to that
<Unit193> So there has been some interest in helping, and I believe others did mention that they'd like to see it happen.
<Unit193> Right.
<elfy> not sure what's going to happen if people don't step up to help
<pleia2> I can help with review of the articles, and pitch in if there's anything I've seen from social media that should be included
<slickymaster> this would be a perfect case where the community might get involved
<slickymaster> s/case/project
 * Unit193 looks at krytarik, sitting over there in the 'community' section.
<elfy> ha ha 
<pleia2> ah yes, we could also ask people via social media what they think should be included in a FAQ
<slickymaster> yes, my thoughts are exactly the same as Unit193?s
<Unit193> But so far that leaves bluesabre writing all of them.
<pleia2> he likes writing, right? :D
<Unit193> Yes!
<elfy> pleia2: maybe try and get people involved that way 
 * astraljava can pitch in
<pleia2> if he starts a blog post, we can multiplayer it and add some suggestions
<slickymaster> and his thourough doing it, pleia2 
<slickymaster> krytarik, come up, come up, wherever you are
<Unit193> So, astraljava and bluesabre, better odds!
<Unit193> I think we'll carry that for when he's here at the next meeting, no?
<slickymaster> yes, good plan
<Unit193> #idea could also ask people via social media what they think should be included in a FAQ
<Unit193> (I have no idea if that shows better in minutes.)
<Unit193> #subtopic Package testing
<elfy> ha
<elfy> so - basically we're not going to even sort out tracker this cycle
<Unit193> Right, so the mail said, we're not doing them this cycle.
<elfy> nor update testcases
<Unit193> I guess for that, all we even have to do is poke PaulW2U.
<PaulW2U> o/
<elfy> I'll assume that bluesabre and cohorts will liase when necessary for that 
<Unit193> Heya, PaulW2U.
<elfy> #action xubuntu-dev to liase with -qa when specific package testing required
<meetingology> ACTION: xubuntu-dev to liase with -qa when specific package testing required
<Unit193> Right, I'll need a release team member for stuff too.
<elfy> hi PaulW2U 
<PaulW2U> hi all
<Unit193> elfy: Anything else, or carry on to the next?
<elfy> hang on
<slickymaster> hi PaulW2U 
<elfy> discussion started with PaulW2U and saqman on m/l about testing (which is more or less the same thing) we can do that now or at the end
<elfy> in which case we can move on
<Unit193> Now'll do.
<elfy> okey doke
<elfy> so - we're looking at the best way to disseminate info to testers here - currently trello board for them is my preference
<elfy> PaulW2U: you got any comments for the meeting? 
<PaulW2U> no really but it testers need focus
<Unit193> FWIW, I'm keeping on top of those, thanks to SwissBot announcing every time something happens there.
<elfy> (I've also offered to run a qa meet if there'senough people -maybe social media that offer pleia2 ? )
<PaulW2U> and items to test need to be easily found and the lists kept updated
<pleia2> elfy: yes sir
<elfy> pleia2: :)
<elfy> PaulW2U: ack 
<PaulW2U> trello board looks good
 * dkessel also likes trello
<elfy> for those who've not looked - there's a Tester Notes board https://trello.com/b/IV66JCHl/xubuntu-qa
<elfy> not sure there's much else to mention on that at this moment 
<elfy> Unit193: the meeting length is kind of based on the chair not looking out of the window :p
<Unit193> :3
<Unit193> #subtopic Milestones to take part in
<Unit193> All the ones Ubuntu does is what I just read
<elfy> heh
<elfy> I'm still happy with 
<pleia2> wfm
<Unit193> Another idea was when/if we had something big landing.
<elfy> really>
<elfy> didn't see that on my pointless mail to the list
<Unit193> elfy: Side note, idea, etc.  But I don't think of anything big.
<Unit193> 4.12 hit last cycle, so that's it pretty much.
<elfy> frankly I think the best plan is start at Beta1 unless something turns up and we want to start earlier
<pleia2> it doesn't need to be a milestone, right? just a stronger call for testing on the specific bit
<elfy> pleia2: yea for sure 
<Unit193> I maaay have misremembered, pleia2.
<Unit193> That sounds closer.
<pleia2> elfy does a great job calling those to our attention, so it's easy enough for me to social media them (sometimes with or without prodding :))
<elfy> pleia2: the only issue being we can't stop dailies churning simply 
<elfy> pleia2: works best when I LP mail for that still ? 
<pleia2> elfy: yeah
<elfy> ok
<pleia2> that gets my attention, then I link to the -dev mail
<elfy> right
<Unit193> #agreed Participate with the ones Ubuntu does, starting at B1.
<elfy> bluesabre and I have quickly discussed both packages and images btw - it's not just me :)
<micahg> well, LO stuff should probably be tested
<Unit193> micahg: Yeah, there's a couple things to be fixed yet in x.d.s
<elfy> micahg: yea - probably
<elfy> I need to see what Ubuntu do with LO - there is a test for it - but I don'tthink much occurs
<knome> hai
<elfy> hi knome 
<slickymaster> knome o/
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/zZTHqewdJcagM769YkZJ for a quick look, micahg.
<pleia2> if LO is the only package test to point people at, maybe we can succeed in getting some to do it ;)
<elfy> pleia2: if only it was that simple - when I looked it was really old and would need checking over
<pleia2> figures
<Unit193> Ubuntu doesn't take better care of that one?
<elfy> Unit193: they don't package test anymore 
<pleia2> ah
<pleia2> nevermind then
<pleia2> would be easy if someone else was maintaining it, but if not..
<knome> manually, non-exploratorily, that is...
<elfy> micahg: the other side of that coin is that we had tests for gnumeric/abiword that people didn't test and we still got bugs reported
<micahg> ok
<elfy> but basically - if people need something tested - ask and it shall be promoted 
<Unit193> Alrighty then, if there's nothing else?
<elfy> I'm good
<Unit193> #subtopic QA Incentive
<slickymaster> nothing on this end
<Unit193> Again, from the mail it seems like a nice idea, but not really as much help.
<elfy> I think I saw a few new names show up - but no way to know from where - they could well just be normal new 
<elfy> and it all took me hours because tracker 
<pleia2> if we do see a new contributor who starts doing a long, we can just randomly offer to send them stickers
<pleia2> but a formal program doesn't work and was a bit silly
<pleia2> s/a long/a lot
<elfy> I'd not say it was silly - just something we tried 
<Unit193> So, #info discontinued ?
<elfy> Unit193: yep 
<pleia2> elfy: yeah, an interesting experiment :)
<Unit193> #info an interesting experiment, but discontinued
<Unit193> Any other discussions?
<elfy> blueprints? or wait till ochosi is about? 
<Unit193> Likely wait for him.
<Unit193> #topic Announcements
<pleia2> I updated a blueprint today \o/
<Unit193> I looked at them!
<elfy> \o/ 
<knome> i did nothing today!
<elfy> still working on qa one
<elfy> knome: \o/ 
<Unit193> I see nothing coming up.
<Unit193> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu May 28 20:45:55 2015 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2015/xubuntu-devel.2015-05-28-20.00.moin.txt
<slickymaster> I fought a java exploit and ransomware trojan
<elfy> I'll sort the next meeting out
<elfy> thinking the 29th May
<pleia2> thanks Unit193 
<pleia2> elfy: ...
<Unit193> http://java-0day.com/ \o/
<elfy> :p
<Unit193> pleia2: Sure, thanks for bearing with me there. :3
<slickymaster> thanks Unit193 
 * pleia2 back2work
<dkessel> oh well. i was really interested to read about the blueprints. too bad.
 * slickymaster starts to grill his bass for dinner
 * elfy sits back to watch Unit193 do the meeting page updates
<Unit193> elfy: How did you know I was wondering "what next?"? :D
<elfy> I remember last time :p
<Unit193> Haha, :D
<slickymaster> lol
 * slickymaster heads up to the kitchen
<Unit193> The lock of slickymaster timed out 39 minute(s) ago, and you were granted the lock for this page
<slickymaster> ups, sorry about that Unit193 :P
<slickymaster> my bad
<slickymaster> better now?
<micahg> ochosi: so, if we get down to 1 gstreamer copy, we should be right sized
<Unit193> xfburn will get us there, no?
<micahg> I think so
<knome> with LO?
<Unit193> Nice, thanks micahg.
<micahg> Unit193: wait, no, pidgin/farstream is the other big thing
<Unit193> Ah right, that.  I'm really hoping that'll be fixed, either with patches or .12 release.
<Unit193> micahg: I've still been running pidgin with gst1.0, no issues.
<micahg> I know 3.0 is a WIP
<Unit193> 2.10.12 should actually have them.
<Unit193> micahg: My plan was to bug robert_ancell about the LP bug.
<micahg> great
<Unit193> #agreed does nothing.
<elfy> Unit193: so core iso - I was going to make a start on testcases for those - no issue with the https://unit193.net/xubuntu/core/ link on there? 
<Unit193> Wouldn't testcases be mini.iso?  Then later we get the Ubuntu buildds?  I have no other problems.
<elfy> mmm
<elfy> this is what I was talking about the other day ... 
<elfy> are we going to get this as an ubuntu build then? if so I'll hold fire 
<knome> elfy, pleia2: maybe we can do some other one-off sticker "competitions"/raffles
<Unit193> That was the hope, I believe.  I'll have to talk to bluesabre, our release eng.
<elfy> Unit193: ok - well if you do that overnight could you ping me and I'll find the backlog
<Unit193> IMO, discussions should have nicks next to them, so we can figure out who needs to lead them.
<Unit193> elfy: Yes sir!
<elfy> knome: possibly - but frankly - it's a whole lot of work if we need information from tracker
<knome> Unit193, at least it would be nice if the person who added the item to the agenda left a visible mark there
<elfy> unless it's something subjective like "that user's been about a lot lately"
<knome> elfy, not necessarily tracker-related
<knome> elfy, or just "test this and take a screenshot while you do it, we draw one random sticker winner"
<elfy> yea possibly
<knome> something more organix
<knome> s/x/c/
<knome> and as i said, one-off, not a huge undertaking
<elfy> then it definitely HAS to be not related to tracker unless it's done now ;) 
<knome> lol
<ochosi> hey folks
<ochosi> sorry for being too late :(
<Unit193> No you're not!
<ochosi> i'll catch up with the backlog and join in then
 * knome slaps ochosi
<knome> NAUGHTY BOY
<drc> I think the proper phrase is "Bad dog, no biscuit!".
<ochosi> ok, now i'm actually back
<ochosi> so
<Unit193> Hah, and I'm gone. :D
<ochosi> micahg: yeah, meh, pidgin :/ i don't see that getting fixed too soon, although Unit193 claims it will, we'll see..
<Unit193> Erm, no.
<ochosi> no?
<ochosi> i thought you said some point release will do gst1?
<Unit193> I gave data, I just hope for this cycle.  Yeah, from what I've read .12 will.
<ochosi> well that sounds a lot closer than 3.0
<ochosi> actually, re: blueprints and LO, i'll add another workitem to w--artwork
<ochosi> so the meeting is still running officially?
<knome> #endmeeting
<knome> no
<Unit193> ochosi: https://hg.pidgin.im/pidgin/main/rev/2415067473ba
<knome> ochosi, what's that you're adding?
<knome> ochosi, i suddendly started thinking about some document templates and color schemes..
<ochosi> Unit193: first of all: wow, they use mercurial. secondly: wow, nice!
<knome> templates is likely a bit in vain, i would imagine nobody wants to use a xubuntu template
<ochosi> yea, prolly not
<ochosi> but the icon theme could integrate better
<knome> that too
<ochosi> that's the one thing that doesn't really go along
<ochosi> bluesabre once worked out a script for replacing many icons with elementary-xfce ones
<knome> aha
<ochosi> but that was when i was extremely busy, so i had no chance to follow up
<ochosi> knome: btw, feel free to claim the wallpaper workitem
<knome> oh sigh, just dump my name in there :P
<ochosi> :]
<Unit193> ochosi: Yep!  Try it out todayâ¢ :P
<Unit193> For me personally, all that's left is wine and I can get rid of gst0.10 on every system.
<ochosi> hmright, i dont use pidgin ;)
<knome> ochosi, wait, wallpaper item is not INPROGRESS? :P
<ochosi> hehe
<knome> ochosi, don't you remember
<knome> :P
<knome> silly one
<ochosi> that's your workitem now, you deal with it ;)
<knome> well you knew it was before you assigned it to me..
<Unit193> ochosi: torchat!
<knome> Unit193, aren't you gone? :P
<ochosi> pleia2: btw, that last email i just sent to the ml could be social-worthy, if you have time!
 * knome is already tweeting
<ochosi> i'm wondering whether we should link to status.ubuntu somewhere in the contribute part of -web
<knome> yep
<ochosi> since that is actually quite a useful overview of our goings on
<knome> i'll do something about that soonish
<ochosi> even the umbrella blueprint might be link-worthy
<knome> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2015-May/010790.html
<knome> now at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2015-May/010790.html with a shameless self-plug for @simonsteinbeiss
<ochosi> well ofc :)
<Noskcaj> Is it ok if i update lp:~xubuntu-dev/+junk/xfpm-pkging to the packaging of xfpm in xubuntu-staging?
<ochosi> there is a junk PPA?
<Noskcaj> ochosi, A daily build ppa
<ochosi> oh right
<Noskcaj> https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/ppa
<Noskcaj> great, launchpad is giving me 404 errors. I guess i'll try tonight
<ochosi> yeah, go launchpad!
<ochosi> anyway, better to wait for bluesabre's opinion on that one, i'm not really confident about my own packaging opinions ;)
<Noskcaj> fair enough
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, When do you think we'll be able to upload new panel?
<knome> ochosi, http://xubuntu.org/contribute/
<knome> ochosi, is that better? (remember to f5, canonical does heavy caching..)
<ochosi> not bad! i would actually add some graphics or icons to that page
<knome> ochosi, well, http://xubuntu.org/?page_id=3081&preview=true
<knome> ochosi, mostly, the subteams are much saner in that
<knome> and yeah, agree with artwork
<knome> but me has none ready :P
<knome> if you have a good idea for some artwork (in the same style as in the front page) that would fit well with the team list, tell me
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> k
<ochosi> i'm actually wondering whether we should make "Progress" a separate header / section
<knome> maybe
<ochosi> and link to status.ubuntu as well as to the blueprints there
<ochosi> to make it more prominent
<knome> but fwiw, i would like to keep most pages static
<knome> eg. not something we need to update every cycle
<knome> so maybe for the so-called "develeoper area" we could have that
<bluesabre> hi all
<knome> a page per cycle
<knome> lists progress, links important things and stuff
<bluesabre> wife is sick, so I may be around for very little time
<knome> then we could point to *that* from the page or so
<knome> bluesabre, strength
<knome> for you and/or for her, depending how much she makes you do stuff :P
 * bluesabre used strength... it's not very effective
<knome> oopsie
<knome> that didn't come out right
<knome> "my wife is sick - i used strength"
<bluesabre> lol
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: possibly tonight, more likely tomorrow morning
<bluesabre> so, I think that might be tomorrow night for you
<bluesabre> or tonight
 * bluesabre stops talking
<ochosi> speedy recovery to her then!
<ochosi> knome: could do something like 4 graphics for the various teams, e.g. something (but more pretty) like this for docs: http://i.imgur.com/6ur2vtQ.png
<knome> uh oh
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: when updating daily builds, make sure they still build for trusty->vivid, or create a new branch of packaging, otherwise, go for it (with testing)
<bluesabre> Unit193: I can help, but I have no idea what it takes to actually add new builds to cdimage
<bluesabre> I can press a button to rebuild
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> ochosi, would prefer one image, it's hard to make stuff thats drawn in the same way fit that area
<knome> especially four things
<bluesabre> why not five?
<knome> and drawing stuff that is like icons is meh...
<knome> bluesabre, because if you ask any designer, they'll tell five things do not go nicely in columns :P
<bluesabre> :o
<knome> well 4 is 2 items in 2 columns
<ochosi> hmyeah, i sort of agree (re: drawn icons), however, going less abstract isn't easy here
<ochosi> just felt we could do some of the common metaphors where they exist for different areas of "contributing"
<knome> sure, but good things aren't easy
<knome> (necessarily)
<ochosi> maybe not easy, but simple!
<ochosi> not our style, but how others do it: https://elementary.io/developer
<ochosi> although that is a slightly different thing
<knome> yeah..
<ochosi> bluesabre: i know you're busy and all, just wanted to mention that in-development wallpaper again
<ochosi> since that only makes sense if we set it early in the cycle
<bluesabre> ochosi: I'll have it in tonight, will be in tomorrow's image
<bluesabre> and thanks for pinging again
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> thanks for uploading! didn't expect things to go so quickly
<ochosi> only thought i'd remind you since i just thought of it again
<ochosi> we can also make it a workitem, so it's less stressful for you
<ochosi> no need to do it *now*
<bluesabre> *tonight* ;)
<knome> ochosi, http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/web_art/xwa-community.png
<ochosi> maybe add an eye to make it look a bit more like a person
<knome> well that just looked stupid
<ochosi> or maybe it's ok, i just need to get some sleep now
<knome> that's why the hair is huge
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> anyway, ttyl, have a good night!
<knome> nighty :)
<Unit193> knome: Yes I was.
<Unit193> bluesabre: But you may know who to ping, or I can pretend you do.
#xubuntu-devel 2015-05-29
<Unit193> ochosi: Now it's all up to xfburn.
<Unit193> bluesabre: As linked earlier, http://paste.openstack.org/show/zZTHqewdJcagM769YkZJ is a quick grep in x-d-s.
<bluesabre> Unit193: go ahead and push any changes needed for x-d-s
<Unit193> I don't have any changes.
<bluesabre> ah...?
<bluesabre> so the grep is for changes we need to make for LO to take over, right?
<Unit193> Aye, considering they all say abiword? :P
<Scout_> Eh, so... This is a community meeting, right?
<Unit193> Abiword, gimp, gnumeric.
<Unit193> Scout_: No, that was hours ago. :)
<Scout_> Oh wow
<Scout_> Darn, lol
<Unit193> 16:00 our time (bluesabre, me), and it is 23:00 now.
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> bluesabre: Everyone else should move to our time, shouldn't they?!
<bluesabre> Unit193: agreed, and then maybe we could have meetings around 6pm our time :D
<Scout_> What'd that be in PDT? I tried finding some sort of thing online for it, but didn't find much
<bluesabre> Unit193: I'll look at swapping LO into that grep tomorrow
<Unit193> Scout_: We're in KY/OH, but generally the team uses UTC to not be confusing.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Great!
<Unit193> bluesabre: Poked an infinity lately?  I got someone to pull in a pidgin with gst1.0.
<bluesabre> Unit193: nice
<Unit193> Scout_: We also try to link to sites like http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Xubuntu+community+meeting&iso=20150528T20&ah=1 if we can, so that it'll be converted to your time.
<bluesabre> haven't poked anybody lately, will probably not tonight either... but soon
<Unit193> bluesabre: xfburn and we should be able to drop gst0.10! \o/
<bluesabre> Unit193: the pidgin news is lovely then :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Awwh.
<Unit193> And yeah! :D
<Scout_> Darn, 1pm, wouldn't have been able to attend anyways :/
<bluesabre> xfburn is ported as of the latest release, right?
<Unit193> Scout_: There's minutes at least.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Right, it'll filter in from Debian soonâ¢
<bluesabre> very very nice
* Unit193 changed the topic of #xubuntu-devel to: Xubuntu Development | Support at #xubuntu | http://ubottu.com/y/ww | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu | Daily testing with results: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
<Scout_> How long do one of these meetings typically last, and what
<Scout_> what's discussed*
<Unit193> Depends what's on the agenda (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings) and who is there, for both questions.
<Scout_> Alright, only asking since I'm not much of a programmer per say, but'd like to at the least attend one of the meetings :P
<bluesabre> usually a bit under an hour, then everybody shows up a few minutes after the meeting ends
<bluesabre> bed time for me... got xubuntu-artwork uploaded, so accomplished 1 thing today
<bluesabre> good night all
<Unit193> Scout_: What're you interested in helping with?  There's many different areas.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Awwwh, good nighty.
<Scout_> General run of the mill testing of the latest stuff, reporting back with bugs, that kinda stuff
<Scout_> Not sure if that's developer channel worthy, but I thought I'd poke around and ask...
<Unit193> QA, nice!  Always need help there.
<Unit193> Well, our QA lead will wake up at 2am (thereabouts) my time.
<Unit193> elfy: No discussion on core.
<Scout_> Oh, awesome! I'm assuming QA Will be something like "Does ______ work? Does _______ have issues?" 
<Unit193> Not precisely, no.
<Scout_> Oh, what might it consist of in that case?
<Unit193> Sorry, have to run real quick. :3
<Scout_> Alright, well, I'll be here watching YouTube
<Scout_> lol
<Unit193> Hah.
<ochosi> Unit193: wowza, that was a lot quicker than expected (pidgin, gst1)
<Unit193> :)
<ochosi> so how did you manage to sneak that in again? :)
<Unit193> Bug robert_ancell, say "new and shiny", or rather say "get rid of gst0.10"
<Unit193> pidgin-sipe is broken now, but no big deal. :D
<ochosi> :D
 * ochosi high-fives Unit193 
<Unit193> Danke!
<Unit193> (Also been testing it since March.)
<ochosi> apart from gst1.0, were there any other transitions ahead?
<ochosi> (i mean yeah, gtk3.16, but other than that)
<ochosi> bluez was a topic last cycle, but i don't remember whether it was upgraded
<elfy> ochosi knome: graphics for team pages? something like this for QA methinks http://tinyurl.com/pxyosc4
<ochosi> hehe
<Unit193> I call http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/234/137/5c4.jpg
<ochosi> yeah, sry elfy, i'm with Unit193 on this one :)
<elfy> works for me - looks like an application for QA lead to me :D 
<ochosi> might be one of my favorites
<elfy> I'm free !!!!!
<Unit193> Nono, yours fits for QA, mine fits for devel! :D
<ochosi> hahaha
<ochosi> elfy: i know you have a desktop and all, but would you mind testing a new xfpm feature i was working on for 1.5.x?
<elfy> if you keep asking me if I mind then I'll start saying no :D
<elfy> of course I will - as always ;)
<ochosi> haha
<ochosi> ok
<elfy> nice to be polite of course - but you can take it as read that if it's possible for me to do something then I will :)
<ochosi> it's attached here: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4499
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 4499 in General "Display percentage and battery time next to icon" [Enhancement,Assigned]
<elfy> with the obvious caveat that ellipse=circle for my eyes unless it is blindingly obvious 
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> no, this is very visible
<elfy> ochosi: would that not be better to test on laptop? 
<ochosi> theoretically yes, but actually the times are values returned by upower
<ochosi> so if they're wrong or off, not our fault
<ochosi> it's more about the label showing up and all
<ochosi> that could use some testing
<ochosi> and no nasty sideeffects
<ochosi> (like breakage of the systray icon)
<elfy> ok - well I can do both if that's helpful 
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> actually it would
<elfy> okey doke
<ochosi> i mean you can also just test it on the laptop
<ochosi> that would be better, i forgot you had one
<elfy> right 
<elfy> so just patch the git xfpm and install it? 
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> with "git apply $patch"
<elfy> okey doke - got a few things to do today,but I'll fit in 
<elfy> yup 
<ochosi> oh, actually
<elfy> lol
<ochosi> the hidden property doesn't get created automatically
<ochosi> so open xfce4-settings-editor, channel xfce4-power-manager
<ochosi> and create "show-panel-label", Integer
<ochosi> then you can switch through 0 to 3 for all variants
<elfy> ok 
<ochosi> you can also use this:
<ochosi> xfconf-query -c xfce4-power-manager -p /xfce4-power-manager/show-panel-label -s 1
<ochosi> where "1" is the integer value
<ochosi> and first this to create the property:
<ochosi> xfconf-query -c xfce4-power-manager -n /xfce4-power-manager/show-panel-label
<ochosi> (sry, i really should've thought more about this initially and given you a clearer writeup :/ )
<elfy> ha ha ha 
<elfy> it's ok - I'll work it out :)
<ochosi> errr this will create the property:
<ochosi> xfconf-query -c xfce4-power-manager -n -p /xfce4-power-manager/show-panel-label
<ochosi> forgot the -p
<ochosi> well if you get stuck just lemme know!
<elfy> will do 
<knome> elfy, haha, you made me literally chuckle
<knome> elfy, but to answer your question seriously, no, i was just thinking about the involvement frontpage - but why not teams too - later
<elfy> :)
<slickymasterWork> morning elfy, knome 
<knome> hey slickymasterWork 
<elfy> morning 
<qwebirc153739> bah
<knome> hah
<qwebirc153739> Unit193, you messed up the minutes in the wiki
<qwebirc153739> you add the ones from the 12-05 meeting, not the ones from yesterday :P
<Unit193> I didn't edit that page.
<knome> Unit193, you no good
<qwebirc153739> yes you did Unit193 -> Xubuntu/Meetings (last edited 2015-05-28 20:57:44 by unit193)
<knome> ahhahahahaha!
<Unit193> But for other things.  That's automatic, or something, I think.
<knome> this is so good
 * knome gets popcorn
<Unit193> It's close enough at least.
<slickymasterWork> weren't you supposed to add the minutes to the wiki Unit193?
<elfy> ochosi: re meetings - you want the next one soonish? and what time would you want it if we're going to "blueprints"? 
<Unit193> I did.
<slickymasterWork> apparently you didn't :P
<elfy> Unit193: frankly I think that editing the meeting page should be docs responsibility 
<slickymasterWork> it's still with the 12-05 meeting minutes
<slickymasterWork> to start that elfy :P
<Unit193> elfy: Yesyes!
<Unit193> slickymasterWork: Yes, yes I did.
<knome> elfy, next week?
 * slickymasterWork takes a sabbtical until the wind changes
<Unit193> Now, I'm not saying Xubuntu/Meetings is correct, but I did put the minutes up.
<ochosi> elfy: the blueprints item in the meeting yesterday was only intended as a reminder and a potential discussion item if people have questions or wanna contribute or have ideas
<knome> slickymasterWork, which "wind" are you referring to?
<slickymasterWork> the one elfy is trying to blow
<knome> ochosi, i don't think it would hurt to see what people have put up until then though and discuss that
<slickymasterWork> ok Unit193, don't read me as if I'm chasing you down
<ochosi> yeah, i think we should keep the discussion item for the next meeting
<knome> eg. if somebody outside the team added something, to discuss if it's realistic and if the team wants to pursue
<ochosi> i only meant that this item isn't critical for determining when the meeting should be scheduled
<knome> ochosi, yeah but elfy asked "when" too ;)
<knome> no, but it would be nice that the next meeting was sooner than later
<elfy> assuming that ochosi wants to be about 
<knome> eg. if it's a month later, then the all stuff is a bit moot
<ochosi> sure, i don't mind if it's sooner
<Unit193> slickymasterWork: I may be under the impression something is dynamic that isn't, though.
<ochosi> i thought we were picking up the 2weeks schedule again anyway
<elfy> ochosi: was thinking about next Friday morning ish 
<slickymasterWork> I can't fix it for you, if you're busy dealinf with other stuff Unit193 
<slickymasterWork> * DEALING
<knome> slickymasterWork, you "can't"?
<elfy> lol 
<ochosi> elfy: should work for me
<slickymasterWork> bah, damn keyboard
<elfy> ochosi: okey dokey
<slickymasterWork> I blame it on the weather knome. 34Âº since 8:30 Am
<slickymasterWork> it's affecting me
<slickymasterWork> Unit193, I meant I can do it for you
<knome> slickymasterWork, you sure it's not the "wind" that's affecting you?
<Unit193> slickymasterWork: So, current minutes aren't on current agenda page?  I suppose I was under the impression that was somehow dynamic, oh well.
<slickymasterWork> I wish it was windy over here today, knome 
<knome> slickymasterWork, you are seriously missing my joke :P
<ochosi> slickymasterWork: maaaan, you're lucky. summer hasn't really come to us
<slickymasterWork> it's hot as hell and not even a small breeze 
<Unit193> Someone is breaking wind?
<elfy> knome: he must be too hot to see it 
<knome> elfy, or too "windy"
<elfy> ochosi: you're lucky - you might get one - we had ours last week :)
<slickymasterWork> no, I'm not knome, too early and too hot to have a laugh :P
<ochosi> elfy: idea: you inform me of my weather next week by telling me the weather you're having now!
<elfy> we'll need to keep the joking in between slickymasterWork and qwebirc153739 - loads of opportunities for that during the day :p
<elfy> ochosi: rain ... 
<slickymasterWork> lol
<ochosi> elfy: together we'll put all meterology out of work!
<elfy> ha ha 
<Unit193> Lisboa, Portugal: Temp: 66 F (19 C) ~ Clear ~ Humidity: 78% ~ Observed: Fri 29, 04:30
<slickymasterWork> that's 350 km down south Unit193 
<elfy> guaranteed rain next - a year older for me 
<Unit193> Was going to say, that's nice and cool.
<slickymasterWork> yeah
<elfy> biab
<elfy> ochosi: so - tried all those xfconf things - and doing it in the settings editor - not getting very far and ended up with it all going horribly wrong with no xfpm running at all ... 
<elfy> though I did have for a short while (0.00,0.00%) in the plugin 
<ochosi> for a short while? that doesn't sound good
<ochosi> that is with the laptop?
<elfy> no the desktop - not got as far as laptop
<elfy> the short while being that I ended up removing the plugin and rebooting - kept getting an xfpm is not running do want to launch it
<elfy> then apport starting ... 
<elfy> I'm now back at the pre-patch git and running
<ochosi> hm, no need to reboot usually
<ochosi> were there any compiler error messages
<ochosi> ?
<elfy> no that was fine
<elfy> not sure that thwe xfconf stuff was working properly - I'll be back to it in a short bit 
<elfy> http://pastebin.com/gg85S6YX
<elfy> and when I used settings editor - it created it above xfpm 
<elfy> http://i.imgur.com/xwo2wli.png
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> that's wrong
<ochosi> you need to create /xfce4-power-manager/show-panel-label instead of just /show-panel-label
<elfy> yea I realise that - doesn't seem to want to let me 
<ochosi> (don't ask me why all xfpm properties are in a separate xfce4-power-manager property when the channel is already called that)
<ochosi> it has to
<ochosi> it only doesn't let you if you have a syntax error
<ochosi> http://i.imgur.com/QZDAxVP.png
<elfy> trying that then 
<elfy> ok -thanks :)
<elfy> trying with patch again 
<elfy> ochosi: ok - all variables work 
<ochosi> kewl :)
<elfy> will grab it all and double check on laptop too 
<ochosi> thanks a lot!
<elfy> do you want me to comment on the bug? 
<ochosi> much appreciated
<ochosi> yeah, that'd be great
<elfy> okey doke
<brainwash> bluesabre: does 
<brainwash> mmh
<brainwash> does the new upload of 
<brainwash> gtk2-engines-xfce fix bug 1424887
<ubottu> bug 1424887 in gtk2-engines-xfce (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Xfce 4.12 for Vivid" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1424887
<brainwash> version 3.2 is now available in wily
<brainwash> also, could or should it be backported to vivid?
<bluesabre> brainwash: yes, the wily upload fixes that, and no, lets not backport it
<ochosi> +1 on not backporting that
<brainwash> alright, thanks
<ochosi> feels like a waste of time
<bluesabre> I'll sync all the wily packages in the xfce-4.12 ppa this weekend, folks that want it can get it there
<ochosi> nice
<ochosi> that's definitely good enough
<ochosi> we should focus on 15.10 now
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: I'll take care of the panel upload tonight or this weekend, had some things on my plate
<ochosi> which reminds me...
<ochosi> bluesabre: what was the status of that script of yours for LO icons?
<ochosi> and did we settle on a potential path forward with that?
<bluesabre> eh, not so good
<ochosi> right :)
<ochosi> it's ok, i guess i can work it out manually too
<bluesabre> the LO icons for each of the themes differ enough from the upstream themes that I was getting a lot of false matches
<ochosi> i just wonder what the best route for us would be
<ochosi> upstream themes?
<ochosi> you mean there are differences between ubuntu and upstream LO iconsÃ
<ochosi> ?
<bluesabre> as in LO-tango vs tango, LO-humanity vs humanity
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> yeah, that doesnt surprise me too much
<ochosi> LO icons are a pain
<bluesabre> if we do take on this herculean task, we should document it for other themes
<ochosi> document that how?
<ochosi> also, *if* i take on that task, i definitely won't do it for a second time ;)
<ochosi> anyway, pinging around in the LO dev community now
<bluesabre> cool
<bluesabre> maybe we can create a bug bounty on elementary :D
<ochosi> just to see whether we could upstream it
<ochosi> indeed, nice idea :)
<bluesabre> gotta run, bbl
<ochosi> sure, ttyl
<elfy> ochosi: ok - so on desktop plugin variable just shows up if it is more than off
<elfy> on laptop variable only shows when on battery - when on mains it just shows the battery icon and no text
<elfy> commented on bug
<elfy> scratched my head a bit till I realised laptop didn't have staging and that's were the libxfce4panel-2.0-dev was ... 
<ochosi> elfy: yeah, that's intended
<ochosi> when the battery is full, it doesnt show anything
<ochosi> i guess i should've mentioned that
<elfy> bit hard to tell with any certainty here - battery lasts 5minutes if lucky ... 
<ochosi> oh
<elfy> ochosi: but long enough to see that icon expanded when on battery :)
<micahg> bluesabre: mind if I unseed any gstreamer 0.10 packages?  xfburn can use its own depends/recommends
<ochosi> micahg: would you mind to â for testing purposes â at some point in the cycle throw LO in a PPA?
<micahg> ochosi: LO is in the archive, why do we need a PPA?  it's already on the images
<ochosi> oh wait, i think in ubuntu the icon themes are separate from LO
<ochosi> point is i'm considering to make an icon-theme for LO that integrates with our default
<ochosi> and it would be good to enable easy testing for it
<micahg> so, let's get the icon theme in the PPA, I'd really rather not start mucking around in LO unless we absolutely have to
<ochosi> yeah, absolutely, just gotta check out how those icon themes work (they're in a zip from what i've seen)
<pleia2> knome: care to look at latest xubuntu at... draft? I hope to publish monday
<pleia2> looks like knome got twitter, posted ochosi's latest email to fb and g+
<knome> pleia2, i will
<pleia2> knome: <3 thanks
<knome> pleia2, maybe an editors note on this:
<knome> Both 32x and 64x are based on Xubuntu 14.04 LTS so we can expect updates through early 2019.
<pleia2> doh
<knome> i can add that, i'm editing already
<pleia2> yeah, I might leave a footnote about how stuff shared with Ubuntu will, but not all of Xubuntu
<pleia2> s/I/you
<pleia2> :)
<knome> oh
<knome> i thought inline
<pleia2> that's fine too
<knome> yup
<knome> also "Xfce's Whisker Menu" -> "the Whisker Menu"
<knome> pleia2, ok, did some editorial editing
<pleia2> knome: I didn't do any editing of the inline interview itself because it's their words o_o
<pleia2> I guess it's ok though
<knome> i didn't change any meanings
<knome> just fixed typos, some formatting, etc.
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> http://xubuntu.org/wp-admin/revision.php?revision=3207
<knome> for the full change list
<knome> which is short
<pleia2> thanks
<pleia2> I'll final review on sunday and publish on monday
<knome> yep, i'm fine with it as it is now, and i believe changes you make won't make it worse, so ++
<Unit193> Hello?
<Unit193> bluesabre!
<Unit193> I've segfaulted, someone needs to fix me. :3
<drc>   sudo rm -rf  Unit193 
<drc> not fixed but no longer a problem :)
<Unit193> :D
<Unit193> bluesabre: I'm confused with all the VCSes, there's a new xfdashboard.  HALP!
<micahg> Unit193: something I can hepl with?
<Unit193> micahg: It's more of a "What do I do?" thing, though if you wanted to knockout the Debian one I can use ubottu to randomly select which git repo so I can push to the PPA?
<micahg> now I'm confused :\
<Unit193> bluesabre, elfy: See -devel.
<knome> this is -devel? :P
<elfy> that was my reaction ... 
<elfy> Unit193: read that -digested - probably forgotten so will rely on a ping to remind me to remind myself :p
<Unit193> elfy: At least I tried to keep you updated! :D
<Unit193> bluesabre: 16:39 local time.
 * Unit193 looooves being in the same tz as the one he pings a lot.
<elfy> Unit193: yep - thanks - was interesting reading - and infinity is a great guy to talk with for sure
<Unit193> Yeah, but I wanted someone else to, people and all.
<elfy> Unit193: we should really get that in a meeting and/or on m/l 
<knome> what is "that"? :)
<elfy> the 'core' thing
<Unit193> That I don't talk to people.
<knome> xubuntu-core? yeah.
<Unit193> elfy: What time is the next meeting?
<elfy> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/05/29/%23ubuntu-devel.html#t20:39
<elfy> Unit193: not set yet - but trying to fix it during UK 'day' so bluesabre can be here - but have dentist at midday 
<Unit193> I'm in and out all next week.
<elfy> bit hard to work that though
<elfy> Unit193: well I think that if I can find a good time with 2/3 of ochosi bluesabre you 
<Unit193> I think the others'll be more important, perhaps.
<Unit193> XPL/XTL.
<elfy> yea - xtl tz is going to be onerous I think 
<elfy> basically I need to be gone 10:45UTC
<elfy> bluesabre: ^^ what time are you about UTC wise? 
<elfy> wandering off again now into Friday evening :)
<knome> hf
#xubuntu-devel 2015-05-30
<elfy> ochosi: not sure if you're seeing this - but since mucking about xfpm,it doesn't start auto with boot
<Unit193> I'm supposed to ping about something so you remember something.
<elfy> I remembered :)
<elfy> went and had another read ... 
<bluesabre> micahg: fine by me :)
<bluesabre> elfy: I'm on my way to/at work during the next meeting time
<bluesabre> M-F, I'm not available between 12:00 UTC and 22:00 UTC, weekend I can make it to anything
<elfy> ok 
<bluesabre> nice try though :)
<bluesabre> Unit193: poke
<elfy> bluesabre: was a bit stuck between wanting to get it in next week during day (which means Friday) and dentist midday for me 
<elfy> and weekends are generally not good as in the past they've been even more tumbleweedy ;)
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Howdy.
<bluesabre> hey Unit193
<bluesabre> I see lots of pings from you
<elfy> now you can sit back for an hour while he tries to remember what they were about 
 * bluesabre sits back
<Unit193> Not really, I'm heading out.
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> ok
<bluesabre> ping me again later :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Some of it was scrollback in -devel.
 * bluesabre may try to dig into the scrollback
<elfy> that's on agenda with link to channel 
<Unit193> Also, new xfdashy, in a git but not svn.
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> couldn't svn it? :(
<Unit193> Well, there were 2 git and a svn to choose from.  I went with what I knew since it was pretty ready for it and git pushed. :P
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> Also, do you know where my watch is?
<elfy> it's behind you ... 
<bluesabre> you left it in the debian/ folder
<bluesabre> ok, I've got my todo list together for today now
<bluesabre> going to watch tv/play games while I wake up, and be back in a little while
<Unit193> bluesabre: No I used the last git repo I'd pushed to, which was bb.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Nice, that looks like a fun commit.
<bluesabre> Unit193: cool, and it looks like the only actual difference is the version bump?
<Unit193> Yep.
<bluesabre> cool
<bluesabre> we'll need to work with Corsac to actually get these things released into debian
<bluesabre> wondering if we need to create an ITP for this
<bluesabre> Unit193: http://paste.ubuntu.com/11457531/ is what you'd like to commit, I'd imagine?
<Unit193> Oh right, thanks then!
<bluesabre> oh, lol
<bluesabre> I bugged you enough that you did it yourself :p
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: xfce4-panel and xfce4-indicator-plugin uploaded
<Unit193> [18:37:36] queuebot:#ubuntu-release: New binary: xfce4-panel [amd64] (wily-proposed/universe) [4.12.0-2ubuntu1] (lubuntu, mythbuntu, ubuntustudio, xubuntu)
<Unit193> Yep, saw. :D
<bluesabre> you're not Noskcaj, silly Unit193 :p
<bluesabre> bbabl
<Unit193> :D
<knome> http://www.piqo.fr/blog/piqo/10101-xubuntu-piqo-edition-telechargeable-en-pre-alpha.html#.VUeTwfntlBc
<knome> hmm hmm
#xubuntu-devel 2015-05-31
<Noskcaj> thanks bluesabre 
<elfy> pleia2: are we still planning to do "Create user survey 2: Xubuntu preferences to help inform us whether defaults satisfy userbase" ?
<knome> ochosi, ping
<dkessel> elfy: i am tinkering around with the ISO tracker... would a script producing this information (live data) help you in any way? http://paste.ubuntu.com/11476521/
<dkessel> formatting can be changed to your liking ;)
<ochosi> knome: pong
<Unit193> ochosi: No.
<ochosi> Unit193: ?
<ochosi> no to pinging knome?
<elfy> dkessel: kind of , a level deeper would be more 
<elfy> hi ochosi 
<dkessel> elfy: what exactly is missing? user info or bug info?
<elfy> dkessel: what's it for though? rather - why are you looking? 
<ochosi> bbabl
<dkessel> I looked at the item that says "draw data from the tracker" or something on the qa blueprint
<dkessel> elfy: ^
<elfy> oh right
<dkessel> It should be possible to integrate the output of the script wherever it is needed
<elfy> dkessel: that'd be sufficient for that
<elfy> is this script easy to run and modify? 
<dkessel> well it is python ;) my first draft: https://code.launchpad.net/~dkessel/+junk/python-qatracker-xubuntu
<dkessel> It should be possible to run that out of the box. I modified the example hidden behind the API link on the tracker
<elfy> that blueprint item was something that ochosi and I were discussing mid vivid 
<elfy> so it's possible I'll discard the idea 
<elfy> personally it would be quite useful if I could get an LP name with test reported number
<dkessel> I'm not sure if the user names are returned through the api, but I could have a look. The blueprint is saying something like weekly stats, which could be possible.
<dkessel> Also, there is this work item for knome about "more meaningful data". I wonder what exactly that is.
<elfy> right - not sure this is something you should spend too much time on :)
<elfy> that is mostly about the same thing - given that I'm not going to be manually extracting info for the QA incentive thing
<elfy> dkessel: also while the blueprint has stuff on it - I'm still looking at it - so it's not finished really
<dkessel> elfy: just trying to be useful while I have one or two days to spare ;) but I guess it's just too early in the cycle then
<elfy> yea I understand that - but probably is too early
<elfy> that said if that script could tell me that in 64bit on day x we had so many of each done - eg summary of the numbers on http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/338/builds/92402/testcases 
<elfy> then I would use it - currently I'd be opening up a weeks worth at a time to look 
<elfy> which is a pita
<dkessel>  I think I can make that a list sorted by day. CSV output might be nice for a spreadsheet or something
<elfy> that'd be rather useful to me :)
<dkessel> Good :)
<ochosi> evening all
<Unit193> No.
<bluesabre> Yes
<bluesabre> evening ochosi
<ochosi> evening bluesabre 
<ochosi> and thanks for the affirmative word :)
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> soooo
<bluesabre> I just got excited, didn't know this existed in the api :)
<bluesabre> https://lazka.github.io/pgi-docs/#Gtk-3.0/classes/ApplicationWindow.html#Gtk.ApplicationWindow
<ochosi> i talked to the elementary folks, they're (as expected) not interested in our LO effort
<bluesabre> indeed
<ochosi> oh, sounds nice, i also didn't know. but then again i haven't actively dealt with gtkapplication
<bluesabre> I use it very very hackily with menulibre (and I think maybe catfish)
<bluesabre> that will make it less hacky :)
<ochosi> :)
<bluesabre> I was thinking wtih CSD catfish, maybe using a split headerbar (https://blogs.gnome.org/mclasen/files/2014/01/Screenshot-from-2014-01-13-081511.png), folder selection and sidebar filters on left
<ochosi> Unit193: while the elementary folks weren't excited about the LO icons thing, xubuntu-core got quite some praise!
<ochosi> bluesabre: yeah, that could work
<bluesabre> otherwise, this is easy to accomplish, http://i.imgur.com/ILlFtuW.png
<ochosi> well, you can always start with this and move to the split headerbar
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> thats the plan
<ochosi> i guess what's nice about the split is that the folder-selection and the filter somehow belong together
<ochosi> without the sidebar, the separator might look a bit over the top
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> if I went with the split, the sidebar would always be displayed
<ochosi> but anyway, starting with the low-hanging fruit is probably good
<bluesabre> mhm
<ochosi> also, i wanted to ask you whether you had a minute or two to test and quickly review a commit for xfpm (eric is on holidays)
<bluesabre> sure
<ochosi> i think you might've tested it before, rebased it on master now
<ochosi> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4499
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 4499 in General "Display percentage and battery time next to icon" [Enhancement,Assigned]
<ochosi> i can't properly test this atm because my laptop burned down
<ochosi> so i have this old laptop without battery
<ochosi> not really ideal for this feature
<bluesabre> true
<ochosi> and my new one takes anther 3 weeks to arrive :'(
<bluesabre> just use the latest patch?
<ochosi> yup
<bluesabre> cool
<bluesabre> it'll take me a bit, will add the patch to the 1.5 package and install that way (so I don't trash my system)
<ochosi> sure
<ochosi> no rush
<ochosi> but i think after that small feature, i'm ready for 1.5.1
<ochosi> it's a bit early, but the bugs in 1.5.0 with the icons are just too annoying
<bluesabre> +1
<ochosi> and this way at least there's a new feature to test
<ochosi> btw, i'm not sure the patch will cleanly apply on top of 1.5.0
<ochosi> you need git master
<knome> ochosi, did you mean "you need a git, master"
<bluesabre> ochosi: so it seems :(
<ochosi> bluesabre: didnt we set up a daily built xfpm somewhere at some point?
<bluesabre> oh right, thats in https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/ppa
<ochosi> heh, there you go ;)
<bluesabre> ochosi: its installed
<bluesabre> what do you need me to test?
<ochosi> this sums it up: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4499#c33
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 4499 in General "Display percentage and battery time next to icon" [Enhancement,Assigned]
<ochosi> btw, i've meanwhile replaced 30 icons for LO, this is really quite a bit of work
<bluesabre> for some reason, not getting any label here
<ochosi> screener of xfce4-settings-editor with the property plz?
<bluesabre> maybe its because my battery is so full
<bluesabre> http://i.imgur.com/ZhQL6eE.png
<ochosi> if it is, then yes, the label is hidden
<ochosi> it depends on whether upower says your battery is still charging or not
<ochosi> not on the load-level
<bluesabre> I see
<bluesabre> suppose I should play a game to empty it out a bit then
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> you can check with "upower -d" whether it's charging or not
<ochosi> the property looks ok though
<ochosi> so in case the patch got applied, everything *should* be working
<bluesabre> http://paste.ubuntu.com/11482893/
<ochosi> hmmm
<ochosi> sry, not sure now why that's not working :(
<bluesabre> I think upower 0.99 is no good with my laptop... I'm definitely no longer charging
<bluesabre> also, GTK's hiding scrollbars kind of suck compared to Ubuntu's, I don't need the scrollbars to cover up the content I'm scrolling through :\
<bluesabre> (gtk 3.16)
<ochosi> hmm
<ochosi> yeah, haven't tested those yet
<ochosi> meh, adding a modified zip folder to /usr/share/libreoffice/share/config/ obviously isn't enough to make the theme show up in the LO icon theme selector
<bluesabre> yeah, for other non-official themes, they end up replacing the theme with tango
<ochosi> ?
<bluesabre> http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=143474
<bluesabre> rename your zip to images_crystal.zip and replace the existing one
<ochosi> actually i made it show up now
<bluesabre> oh cool
<ochosi> it has to go in /usr/lib...
<ochosi> for whatever reason
<ochosi> the icons don't show up yet though, something's clearly not working right
<ochosi> i have no idea how they create the zips
<ochosi> maybe there's something special about them
 * bluesabre shrugs
<ochosi> http://i.imgur.com/EvwYcYH.png
<bluesabre> fancy theme
<bluesabre> :p
<ochosi> yeah, i prefer it to the "human" theme :)
<ochosi> ok, got it working now
<bluesabre> nice
<ochosi> i think the best way to make this available for testing is the zip
<ochosi> we should just create a package that installs that and a symlink to it in the right place
<ochosi> maybe you can take a peek at the packaging
<ochosi> i think if we only want to replace the essential icons, we can do that this cycle easily
<ochosi> thing that cause the most work is that they have ridiculous icon size like 26x26
<ochosi> http://i.imgur.com/VE2Pg0N.png
<ochosi> think i'll focus on the toolbar and the primary menus
<bluesabre> ochosi: sure, I can investigate creating a package with this... maybe we can set up a branch for it to to work with
<ochosi> should be fairly easy
<bluesabre> yeah
<ochosi> the final package does very little
<ochosi> http://i.imgur.com/kkuTCRP.png
<ochosi> soon, most of the horrible orange icons will be gone btw
<bluesabre> :D
 * bluesabre doesn't suggest that he likes Human/Humanity
<bluesabre> and ochosi is using adwaita?
<bluesabre> :o
<ochosi> no, that's only cause i was testing a local copy of greybird and synaptic wanted root
<bluesabre> ah, gotcha
<ochosi> so many horrible icons
<ochosi> oh lord, that'll be a nice piece of work
<ochosi> question: can you somehow make the zip-ification of the theme take place in the packaging?
<ochosi> i mean theoretically i guess i could script it, too
<ochosi> thing is i would prefer to keep the whole icon theme somewhere as source files in git or something
<ochosi> and then the zip is needed for packaging, so i could push that to a separate branch or something from which to build the package
<ochosi> or keep it there in the same branch even
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> we can do that
<bluesabre> make a branch and drop all of the folder structure in a subfolder, we can zip that structure
<ochosi> so zipping in the packaging?
<bluesabre> yes
<ochosi> cool
<ochosi> that'd be perfect
<ochosi> so the next question is: git or bzr
<bluesabre> either, shimmerproject exists in both :)
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> if you dont care at all, i'll go for github
<bluesabre> go for it
<ochosi> okeydokey
<ochosi> i'll have something for you to work with in a few minutes
<bluesabre> cool
<ochosi> bluesabre: there you go: https://github.com/shimmerproject/libreoffice-style-elementary
<ochosi> hmm
<ochosi> i wonder whether the subfolder was a good idea...
<ochosi> since you said you can zip it up in the packaging
<ochosi> but either way, that's a hint: the zip has to have that name: images_elementary.zip
<ochosi> i'll remove the folder again now
<bluesabre> ochosi: sure
<bluesabre> I'll actually add a makefile that does the zipping, and the package will be easy because of that
<bluesabre> so it won't be debian only
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> cool
#xubuntu-devel 2016-05-30
<knome-web> hello hello!
<pleia2> ochosi, bluesabre - included you on an email with sabdfl re: snaps
<knome-web> meh, i should remember to send that council thing email today
<knome-web> i'm already a week and more late
<ochosi> pleia2: thanks, will take a look when i'm home from work!
<ochosi> knome-web: yes, you really should...
<ochosi> or i'll end up being XPL for another cycle, and I guess nobody wants that :)
<pleia2> lol
<pleia2> ochosi4xpl
<pleia2> ochosi jr for xpl?
<pleia2> maybe knome jr
<knome-web> ochosi: but me?
<knome-web> :P
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> pleia2: thanks, i'll forward your support to ochosi jr ;)
<pleia2> :D
<knome-web> and me to knome jr
<bluesabre> pleia2: thanks
<bluesabre> ochosi: ping
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: pong
<ochosi> wat up?
<bluesabre> hey ochosi
<bluesabre> see the email pleia2 mentioned yet?
<ochosi> not yet
<ochosi> just came home
<ochosi> prepping dinner now
<bluesabre> k
<bluesabre> I'll give you a chance to review it before bugging you (I think you're more familiar with xfce internals than myself)
<ochosi> bluesabre: ok will do (sorry, gotta get back to dinner ;))
<ochosi> bluesabre: ok, now i've read up on it
<ochosi> i'd say glib-dbus and gdbus, X11 signalling is all
<ochosi> even xfconf relies on dbus, so there's nothing special i can think of
<bluesabre> Yeah, that sounds right
<ochosi> so yeah, x11 calls we'll have to get rid of anyway if we ever want to support wayland
<ochosi> which leaves us basically with gdbus
<ochosi> are you gonna reply or shall i?
<bluesabre> Feel free to, I don't have anything to add to that... snaps work in xubuntu 16.04
<ochosi> hadn't tested them yet, but that's good to know (couldn't think of a reason why they wouldn't)
<ochosi> it's mostly a packaging issue to make our stuff snappy
<ochosi> and i guess that's the main part
<ochosi> we probably don't have the manpower
<ochosi> (wrt our reply)
<ochosi> bbabl
<ochosi> bluesabre: anyway, lemme know when you're around again so we can finalize our reply to mark
<ochosi> (alternatively i can also just go ahead and write it on my own, as you wish)
<bluesabre> ochosi: sorry about that, took an allergy-induced nap
<ochosi> oh ouch
<ochosi> sorry to hear
<bluesabre> ochosi: np :)
<ochosi> have you looked into snappy packaging?
<ochosi> from how i understand the use-case, there's little benefit for us
<ochosi> especially since it's not like we roll out so many updates during a cycle
<ochosi> we likely benefit more from staying in sync with debian
<bluesabre> That's generally the case, we don't really benefit from utilizing it ourselves
<ochosi> (is my crude initial analysis)
<bluesabre> it's a good one
<bluesabre> I think the main thing that mark is interested in is regarding integration with xfce/xubuntu
<ochosi> like what? an installer?
<ochosi> we're already going with gnome-software and that is supposed to have integration
<bluesabre> As I understand it, snappy-packaged apps use a wrapper script to get things like fontconfig and other environment variables in place so the app can integrate well
<bluesabre> Xfce doesn't do anything particularly special and should not need additional config to integrate
<ochosi> i guess so
<bluesabre> https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/snappy/build-apps/metadata/
<ochosi> Strong C/C++ experience, preferably with an open source project.
<ochosi> whoops
 * ochosi needs to get his mousepad under control
<bluesabre> lol
<ochosi> left-click != middle-click
<bluesabre> ochosi is hiring xfce developers...
<ochosi> lol
<ochosi> so i dunno, i guess to some extent it might depend a little on the actual application that is snapped
<ochosi> but in general i don't see any blockers with snap packages so far
<ochosi> from the docs it's easy to see though that this is in an early stage, i would assume that things will change quite a bit in the future
<bluesabre> yup, early stage, but functional
<ochosi> have you tried any snap package so far?
<bluesabre> I installed the notes snap when it first showed up
<bluesabre> mhall119 has been snapping things up https://plus.google.com/+MichaelHall119
<bluesabre> I've been watching other folks stay on top of it :D
<bluesabre> notes app http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/04/sudo-snap-install-notes-app
<bluesabre> telegram app http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/05/telegram-snap-package-ubuntu-16-04
<ochosi> the article on telegram highlights some shortcomings that sound nasty to overcome in a generic and desktop-agnostic way
<ochosi> holy moly, 60mb for a notes app...
<ochosi> i guess they added a whole DE just to be sure it'll run
<bluesabre> yep
<ochosi> looks fairly bland also
<ochosi> not sure what's really worth 40mb (sorry, misread before) in that app
<ochosi> the gtk theme wasn't used in that app btw
<ochosi> looked broken, using raleigh
<bluesabre> and that's probably one of those highlighted issues, where the wrapper is failing to grab the default theme
<bluesabre> that might be something the wrapper needs to communicate to xfce for
<ochosi> hm, not sure. it's not really an xfce specific setting
<ochosi> at least i think it isn't
<bluesabre> kill xfsettingsd, everything goes raleigh
<bluesabre> so it does something, somehow
<bluesabre> I'm not entirely familar yet with how the apps figure that out
<bluesabre> might be something I experiment with this week
<ochosi> i thought it sets an x setting
<ochosi> some daemon needs to set/provide that
<bluesabre> but snap-packaged apps basically run in a clean environment, unless the wrapper script passes in those specific runtime parameters
<bluesabre> (if I understand correctly)
<ochosi> yeah, sounds a bit like another docker implementation to me (minus the chroot)
<ochosi> bluesabre: so wait, do you want me to wait with the reply to mark?
<ochosi> i mean, do you want to check the theming xfsettingsd thing somehow?
<ochosi> i can also just mention this as a result of our first tests
<ochosi> although it means we have to admit we don't know how xfce works :p
<bluesabre> haha
<bluesabre> xfce is an old project... we can't be familiar with it all, but happen to be some of the xfce+ubuntu devs
<bluesabre> I'd just mention what we know, and keep it open for future conversation as we figure out more
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> i'll ahead and reply then
<bluesabre> great, thanks ochosi
<ochosi> bluesabre: ok sent. i hope you're ok with my wording and content
<ochosi> wait. i meant: i hope you're content with my wording
<ochosi> ;)
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> dinner time, bbl
<ochosi> bed time, nighty ;)
<knome> nighty ochosi 
<bluesabre> ochosi: well said
<mhall119> bluesabre: ochosi are there any xubuntu apps that you'd like to try snapping? We've done some examples for Gnome and KDE already, I'd be happy to help build one for Xubuntu/Xfce too
#xubuntu-devel 2016-05-31
<bluesabre> mhall119: sure, that sounds fun. We have C and Python apps, all GTK... which would be a good starting point?
<Unit193> bluesabre: Sure, kill xfsettingsd, but then run xsettingsd (no 'f') and see if they come back.  The latter has no understanding of Xfce internals.
<mhall119> bluesabre: let's go with python, so I don't have to compile anything :)
<mhall119> also because I've successfully snap'd a python2/gtk3 app already
<ochosi> Unit193: lots of packaging work for you with all those ported plugins ;)
<ochosi> already looking forward to adding the PPA for testing
<flocculant> ochosi: more than someone looking forward to trying to get them tested :p
<Unit193> ochosi: Though panel plugins are more boring than apps. ;)
<ochosi> not for the porters it seems ;)
<Unit193> Seems ali is the only one working on core apps.
<ochosi> hey, i was working on xfpm!
<ochosi> also, eric ported xfce4-session
<ochosi> and bluesabre is working on xfce4-settings
<ochosi> we haven't had so many people work on core components in ages!
<Unit193> Hmm, thought xfpm had most of it already.  And yes, activity is great.
<ochosi> well yes, after we ported it, it had it
<bluesabre> evening all
<knome> hullo
<bluesabre> hey knome!
<knome> what's up?
<bluesabre> nothing atm, getting stuck on xfce porting since I can't seem to get exo-2 installed
<knome> mhm
<bluesabre> It's definitely installed, but pkgconfig knows nothing of it
<knome> heh
#xubuntu-devel 2016-06-01
<flocculant> knome: would it be a pita to add 'Install Status' to http://dev.xubuntu.org/#tab-qa (preferably a new column rather than a complete new set underneath) ?
<flocculant> would save people looking in 2 places to see what's current status
<knome> flocculant, yeah, no problem, i'll tackle that today
<flocculant> knome: thanks :) though I didn't say there'd need to be an accompanying item on the admin page too
<flocculant> assumed you'd work that out for yourself :p
<knome> of course there needs to be one :P
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: made a decision on irc sessions for testers - not going to do that this cycle
<akxwi-dave> flocculant, ok, no problems
#xubuntu-devel 2016-06-02
<flocculant> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/seeds/xubuntu.yakkety/blacklist
<flocculant> if that says "# Xubuntu doesn't need GNOME's user guide." why do we get it, if we get via some other thing - should it be blacklisted?
<Unit193> Not how that blacklist works. :/
<flocculant> Unit193: awesome :p
<flocculant> a whitelisting blacklist :D
<knome> flocculant, qa status going to be broken for a bit while i add the new functionality
<flocculant> knome: is a bit hours, days, weeks ?
<knome> minutes :P
<flocculant> :D
<flocculant> knome: well you understood exactly what I meant yesterday :p
<flocculant> when you've finished sorting it can you leave Boot Status as both wins and 64 bit install as fail and 32 bit as unconfirmed :)
<knome> k
<flocculant> I'm off now - cya later
<akxwi-dave> laters
<knome> flocculant, ok, i've set the statuses you asked for and everything should work as expected; if not, poke
<akxwi-dave> flocculant, knome, I can confirm the 32 bit version fails with same problems as the 64bit on ubi-console and installer crash
<knome> akxwi-dave, didn't flocculant post you the qa admin pass?
<akxwi-dave> not yet... unless I missed it.. :-)
<knome> it was sent ages ago
<akxwi-dave> in that case let me double check
<knome> :)
<akxwi-dave> ah ah..  yes he did.. and yes i forgot.. (my lappy remembers it) this pc doesn't
<knome> :)
<knome> it now has the added functionality to mark install status as you notice
<akxwi-dave> excellent .. looking at it now.. 
<flocculant> knome: thanks - exactly as I imagined it :)
<ochosi> Unit193, bluesabre: would either of you be willing to package up the latest libxfce4ui (release should also come soon) so we can use that for development?
<flocculant> o/ ochosi 
<Unit193> ochosi: It's looking for libxfce4ui-2.xml.in which doesn't exist.
<ochosi> Unit193: oh, hm, meh
<Unit193> I'm going to presume this file: http://git.xfce.org/xfce/libxfce4ui/tree/glade/libxfce4ui.xml.in
<sidi> Unit193, in the package or in the git tree?
<sidi> Unit193, most Xfce packages on Debian/Xubuntu from what I gather are already xdt-autogen'd. So there's no configure.ac.in either.
<Unit193> sidi: Yes usually pickup released tarballs, sometimes re-run autogen for newer arches, but point being libxfce4ui-2.xml.in <-> libxfce4ui.xml.in which I linked to.
<sidi> so if you take an upstream patch and apply it to an Ubuntu package you need to replace changes in some .in's into the final changes, and/or you need to keep the Makefile.am's and .in files on top of your tree, apply the patch, quilt add the generated filed and run xdt-autogen 
<sidi> Ah
<sidi> Alright I'm offtopic and I'll shut up now :D
<ochosi> Unit193: so it's working now?
<Unit193> ochosi: After hacking it all up, it does build at least.  No idea if glade will work.
<ochosi> eric_the_idiot: ^
<eric_the_idiot> I probably forget to stage the file
<Unit193> eric_the_idiot: That's what I figured, though it's missing from potfiles.in too.
<Unit193> ochosi: ...Is there somewhere you wanted this (when he pushes the above), it's not exactly in ideal condition fwiw.
#xubuntu-devel 2016-06-03
<Unit193> bluesabre: You up for testing something?
<bluesabre> Unit193: whats up?
 * bluesabre can't hide when he's chatty on xfce-dev
<Unit193> Eh, well you can easily say "Nope" or "not now", it works.
<bluesabre> nah, just discovered appearance-settings will require a lot of code, so ready to roll
<Unit193> Just testing that glade will pull in the new stuff in libxfce4ui-2-dev
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> considering that I am working in ports, definitely eager to check that out
<Unit193> bluesabre: https://unit193.net/source/libxfce4ui-2-dev_4.13.0~git20160601.6b22758-0ppa1+gtk3_amd64.deb
<bluesabre> Unit193: need libxfce4ui-2-0 as well
<Unit193> Ah right, same location.
<Unit193> (All the debs are.)
<Unit193> source/sha256sums too
<bluesabre> Unit193: no go https://paste.ubuntu.com/16936439/
<Unit193> bluesabre: I know why, thanks.  I suck. :D
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> (I can either fix or just wait for the fix.)
<bluesabre> no hurry, I'm done for the night :)
<eric_the_idiot> Unit193: Pushed the xml file and added it to the POTFILES.in
<eric_the_idiot> thanks for pointing that out!
<Unit193> Sure, will package now.
<pleia2> things are finally starting to settle down for me, aiming to upgrade dev.x.o to xenial in the next week or so
<ochosi> pleia2: quick question (as i will likely have to retire my university account soonish), would you still have one or two spots for irc bouncers?
<pleia2> ochosi: yep
<pleia2> load on that system is pretty low
<ochosi> great!
<ochosi> well i guess one or two irssi instances won't push the load very much :)
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> pleia2, "that system" being your server or our dev instance? :)
<pleia2> knome: mine
<knome> oki
<knome> because obviously, i was thinking about irssi instances in the latter too :P
<knome> nice hostnames and all!
<pleia2> 39.68.79.45.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer li1167-39.members.linode.com.
<pleia2> yes, very pretty
<pleia2> :P
<knome> :P
<pleia2> I can set it to dev.xubuntu.org though
<knome> indeed
<knome> or irc.xubuntu.org
<pleia2> can't, that address doesn't point to our server
<pleia2> need to have an A record pointing at the server
<knome> well as if that was a problem... )
<knome> :)
<pleia2> â¢ Reverse DNS changed. Please allow up to 24 hours for changes to take effect.
<pleia2> set to dev.x.o
<knome> :)
<knome> then the question is if we want to use that as a server for irc instances :P
<pleia2> I don't care, the load on it is pretty minimal, but I don't want to compromise our other tooling
<knome> of course not
<pleia2> I have had to sometimes kill rogue irssi perl scripts over the years
<knome> o.o
<pleia2> people load up crazy things from the internet
<knome> yes
<knome> i don't
<knome> i just write my own crazy stuff
<pleia2> me neither, I write crazy things
<pleia2> hahaha
<knome> yes..
<flocculant> evening 
<knome> lo
<flocculant> hi knome 
<flocculant> I guess we can start moving the council thing along pretty soon
<knome> yup
<flocculant> irc from our server is something I thought about fleetingly 
<ochosi> Unit193: so wait, did you in the end package libxfce4ui successfully and push the pkg somewhere?
<Unit193> ochosi: Basically yeah, and in the location I'm keeping all the Xfce packages locally, well all but xfdashy. :P
<Unit193> The tarball was sitting in ~/ still this morning. >_>
<ochosi> link?
<Unit193> There's none yet, though building amd64/xenial now for you.
<ochosi> oh ok
<ochosi> thanks!
<Unit193> (I'm not PPA'ing it yet because I'm not happy with the packaging.)
<Unit193> ochosi: There you go!
<Unit193> Tell me if it works. :>
<knome> Unit193, i'm sure the apache developers had heard that question one too many times when they decided to create the current default page.
<Unit193> Hah. :P
<knome> sidi, was that joke bad enough?
<sidi> What do you think, knome? Do you also need Apache to tell you if the joke works or?
<sidi> or you can tell it's a 403 all by yourself?
<knome> sidi, i need the opinion of the joke master
<sidi> https://xkcd.com/221/ knome 
<sidi> this is the opinion.
<knome> sidi, http://tinyurl.com/ogo3wkd
<knome> that is an onion.
<sidi> knome, onions can be brave or even commendable. Ask Davos.
<Unit193> knome: What happened to the idea of sgt-puzzles?
<knome> Unit193, i'm playing one of them.
<knome> Unit193, the idea was that since it clutters up the menu too much, we should create a launcher that replaces the vast amount of items with one
<knome> then that task was assigned to bluesabre who delegated it to Noskcaj
<Unit193> And it's been sitting in PPA ever since.
<knome> yes
<sidi> you should have delegated it more.
<Unit193> Of course, I don't like http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/+junk/sgt-puzzles-launcher/view/head:/debian/sgt-puzzles-launcher.preinst
<knome> the ideal situation would to get this launcher upstream.
<Unit193> Considering it is python and the rest of it isn't..
<knome> by "this launcher" i mean "any launcher"
<Unit193> Sure, but this one exists and is functional. :P
<knome> mhm-
<Unit193> Anywho, so it just stagnated, OK.
<knome> yep
<Unit193> Figured as much, but figured I'd poke in case.
<sidi> Can you screenshot that thing plz?
<sidi> Curious what it is.
<Unit193> I don't have it either. :P
<knome> sidi, it's a launcher for puzzle games
<knome> http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/puzzles/
<knome> those are the puzzle games...
<Unit193> I think I killed ochosi. :3
<Unit193> ..Or he found the hidden virus.
<knome> (:
<sidi> ah, cool
<knome> sidi, that ochosi died? you collect corpses?
<sidi> yup
<sidi> cheap food.
<sidi> plus it's locally farmed.
<knome> :F
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> bluesabre!
<knome> bluesabre, welcome to the regular friday night fun
<bluesabre> hi knome Unit193
<Unit193> I was going to ask/bother you about a few things, but I may have forgotten. :(
<knome> indeed, it's not may any more!
<bluesabre> yay me
<Unit193> Yes I know I nag. :'(
<Unit193> I did more PPA cleaning too of course. :PP
<knome> ...for making people forget?
<Unit193> bluesabre: Did you see new libxfceui for you?
<bluesabre> Unit193: not yet, on your server or in a ppa?
<Unit193> Server, package still isn't pretty.
<bluesabre> I see some chatter about it, no link
<Unit193> /source/
#xubuntu-devel 2016-06-04
<bluesabre> cool
<bluesabre> Unit193: woohoo, it works!
<Unit193> \o/
<bluesabre> https://i.imgur.com/i4HbtBi.png
<Noskcaj> Unit193, that sgt-puzzles thing is crap ,and i'll not have time to make it work properly any time soon. Would be good if someone could make a working version
<Unit193> Noskcaj: Hah, alrighty.  Howdy.
#xubuntu-devel 2016-06-05
<ochosi> Unit193, bluesabre: maybe i made some mistake when installing but glade throws a warning about libxfce4ui not being available but then displays the dialogs correctly...
<bluesabre> ochosi: just looked into that, seems the line needs to be changed to
<bluesabre> <requires lib="libxfce4ui-2" version="4.12"/>
<bluesabre> (with the -2)
<bluesabre> in the .glade/.ui file you are editing, that is
<eric_the_idiot> bluesabre: also if you save the file with glade, it looks like it adds it for you. At least it did for xfsm for me
<bluesabre> handy dandy
<bluesabre> and hey eric_the_idiot :)
<eric_the_idiot> hi
<ochosi> bluesabre: yeah, read that in #xfce-dev already ;)
<bluesabre> :)
 * bluesabre goes about porting
<ochosi> nice
<ochosi> i'll jump in tonight
<ochosi> gotta run now (get the kid out of the house and all)
<bluesabre> seeya ochosi, hf
#xubuntu-devel 2017-05-30
<Unit193> https://ftp-master.debian.org/new/ayatana-indicator-application_0.5.1-1.html
<Unit193> https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2017/05/msg00002.html
<Unit193> https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2017/05/msg00005.html
<ochosi> Unit193: nice, never thought that the demise of Unity would have such a positive impact on indicators
<ochosi> also looking forward to stretch
<bluesabre> akxwi-dave: will be a bit longer for the parole fixes... in the middle of a big cleanup and my schedule got switched up quite a bit this weekend
<akxwi-dave> bluesabre:  no probs..   :-)
<tracker3> I am searching for the 'scanner portion' of driver for my MP210 printer. Where can I find this to download?
<Unit193> I'd say you're looking for #xubuntu, the support channel.
<tracker3> ok thanks, i'll try to find that. If not i'll be back
<knome> tracker3, try https://xubuntu.org/irc
<tracker3> just got there
<tracker3> interface does not seem to be working
<knome> http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=xubuntu and make sure you allow JS
<knome> or /join #xubuntu on this window
<tracker3> ok thanks, I got there knome.
#xubuntu-devel 2017-05-31
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tumbler/0.1.92.1-0ubuntu1
<knome> !team | meeting in 40ish
<ubottu> meeting in 40ish: team is akxwi-dave, bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
<flocculant> might be awake in 40ish
<bluesabre> flocculant: be awake
<knome> :)
<bluesabre> Unit193: nice :)
<knome> #startmeeting Xubuntu community meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed May 31 22:00:04 2017 UTC.  The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<knome> #chair bluesabre 
<meetingology> Current chairs: bluesabre knome
<knome> who's here for the meeting?
<pleia2> o/ for a few minutes
<flocculant> not me - I'm after popcorn
<bluesabre> o/
<slickymasterWork> 0/
<slickymasterWork> provided the hotel wifi keeps working :P
<flocculant> slickymasterWork: nothing we've not noticed before then :D
<slickymasterWork> lol
<slickymasterWork> true
<knome> we don't seem to have a long agenda, so this is likely quick... but let's go anyway
<knome> #topic Open action items
<knome> bluesabre, the thunar SRU?
<bluesabre> You betcha
<knome> is done? :)
<bluesabre> Nope
<knome> hah.
<knome> #action bluesabre to get the Thunar SRU out
<meetingology> ACTION: bluesabre to get the Thunar SRU out
<knome> everything else is done
<bluesabre> #info thunar SRU, still in progress, hasn't been released into proposed yet, will be nudging, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/thunar/+bug/1679488
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1679488 in thunar (Ubuntu Zesty) "Thunar freezes when left inactive for a while" [Undecided,In progress]
<knome> ta
<knome> #topic Updates and Announcements
<flocculant> well - the sru in action items was done :p
<knome> flocculant, oh well... :)
<knome> i don't have anything for announcements
<bluesabre> I do
<knome> well, xfce infrastructure has been getting better ;)
<bluesabre> #info xfce4-weather-plugin SRU, also not yet released to -proposed, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-weather-plugin/+bug/1688056
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1688056 in xfce4-weather-plugin (Ubuntu Xenial) "Package outdated" [Undecided,In progress]
<bluesabre> Xfce apps too
<knome> what's our milestone participation status?
<flocculant> beta(s)
<knome> oki, not around the corner yet
<flocculant> nah
<knome> anything else from people?
<bluesabre> Nope, but hopefully we'll have some interesting things in artful soon
<bluesabre> new parole this week
<flocculant> I got confused with May and June when I mentioned milestones ...
<knome> :)
<bluesabre> Lots of GTK3 porting progress in Xfce land, will be trying to get some of that in Artful
<bluesabre> So, Xfce testing would be a huge boost right now :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: cool - I'm bored :)
<bluesabre> :D
<slickymasterWork> lol
<bluesabre> Unit193 added a new tumbler package, should support wine thumbnails
<bluesabre> If I am not mistaken
<bluesabre> The indicator stack has landed in Debian, so there might be some news there in the near future
<Unit193> bluesabre: s/should/does/, been using it since yesterday.  Found a problem with that too. :P
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> welcome Unit193 
<bluesabre> I don't think there's any other announcements from me right now
<knome> oki, others?
<flocculant> nada
<bluesabre> checking the release schedule for important dates
<slickymasterWork> nothing here
<knome> well, that kind of reminds me
<bluesabre> Feature Definition Freeze was the 25th :D
<knome> we need to get the slideshow stuff going earlier this cycle
<flocculant> bluesabre: dates are on burndown btw
<knome> slickymasterWork, ^
<flocculant> indeed
<slickymasterWork> ack knome 
<knome> #topic Discussion
<flocculant> now would be as good a time as any
<knome> nothing on the agenda
<knome> does anybody want to bring up something on the spot?
<knome> #action knome to figure out some marketing stuff for getting ideas for the slideshow
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to figure out some marketing stuff for getting ideas for the slideshow
<flocculant> what about other artwork stuffs
<knome> like what?
<flocculant> I don't know - just everything artwork always lands really really late
<bluesabre> There's some chatter on the mailing lists regarding slideshow deadlines and i386 to keep an eye on
<knome> i'm trying to get it out sooner, but it's what it is :|
<knome> bluesabre, yeah, thus the slideshow discussion above ;)
<flocculant> which is why we ended up with a default wallpaper you couldn't see fsck notice on
<Unit193> xfce4-terminal, xfce4-dict, xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin, xubuntu-artwork all sawuploads.
<bluesabre> Yeah, wanted to clarify
<knome> flocculant, acknowledged
<flocculant> knome: ack - and I'm not blaming you - as I;ve said before maybe try and get community involved more
<flocculant> and not right at the last minute ;)
<knome> does anybody wnat to talk about 32-bit and/or have an opinion about it?
<flocculant> other flavours and Ubuntu all manage to do that
<flocculant> obviously you don't want to talk about art then
<bluesabre> We have at least one 32bit team member
<Unit193> Makes more sense to keep wallpaper contests at LTS releases tome.
<flocculant> Unit193: why?
<bluesabre> I agree with that
<flocculant> bluesabre: why?
<knome> flocculant, i don't have a problem talking about art, but i've acknowledged your worry that stuff lands (too) late but at the same time, real life is what real life is
<Unit193> flocculant: Well, that's a looot of effort to put into voting, selecting, etc for every cycle.
<bluesabre> Mainly because it's the "stable" milestone
<bluesabre> and something additional to hype the release
<knome> i agree with Unit193 and bluesabre too, mostly because we haven't got too many submissions even on the contests we've done this far - we don't want to make it happen more often
<bluesabre> and what Unit193 says
<Unit193> And a decent point in time to put the marker.
<flocculant> ok - so I see no reason why we can't start planning for that now - because in less than 6 months it will be the lts cycle
<knome> the contest website is ready for submissions, it'll take 5 mins to set it up
<bluesabre> Definitely a good idea to plan and schedule, though we have the infra for it now
<bluesabre> knome beat me to that
<flocculant> because if we don't - then it will be March and still we#ll be thinking about doing something 
<flocculant> but I'll shutup and wait for when it's too late for that cycle
<pleia2> it even has ssl now!
<flocculant> I have no opinion on 32bit 
<bluesabre> architectures is a boring topic :D
<flocculant> when there is something concrete to discuss then I'll make my mind up 
<flocculant> bluesabre: damn right - I had to do Gothic :(
<bluesabre> There was a suggestion in the ML to include gnome-font-viewer... I'm in favor of this suggestion
<bluesabre> flocculant: haha
<flocculant> bluesabre: so was I once I woke up to the right package :p
<flocculant> oooh - also what about the core iso - are we going to try again?
<bluesabre> We'd like to, but it's really hard to get the folks that can do anything about it to do anything about it
<knome> bluesabre, want to follow up on that thread and potentially set up a team vote?
<bluesabre> flocculant: We provide the patches, they don't get reviewed :\
<knome> yes, my take on core is that it's always been the plan to make it official
<flocculant> bluesabre: has it been discussed recently?
<bluesabre> flocculant: Haven't checked in a while
<flocculant> mmk
<bluesabre> knome: sure, I'll do that
<bluesabre> #action bluesabre to follow up on gnome-font-viewer inclusion and set up team vote
<meetingology> ACTION: bluesabre to follow up on gnome-font-viewer inclusion and set up team vote
<flocculant> I know I've not seen anything where I lurk - didn't know about elsewhere
<knome> bluesabre, thanks
<knome> #action knome to poke infinity about xubuntu core/base again
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to poke infinity about xubuntu core/base again
<knome> #action knome to update the contest website plugin from staging
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to update the contest website plugin from staging
<bluesabre> Are there any other development related things folks want to discuss?
<knome> or any other xubuntu-related things?
<flocculant> bluesabre: I'm a tad confused about what gtk3 xfce we have/expecting tbh
<flocculant> not even sure what's on iso currently - if at all
<flocculant> 'the problem with using our ppa's' :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: but don't need to know here and now ...
<bluesabre> flocculant: Not sure for what we expect to have, depends on what gets done early this cycle... but we have xfce4-terminal, parole, mousepad, exo, several plugins already in
<knome> bluesabre, Unit193 (and ochosi): i think i've asked this before, but could you put up some kind of summary about this?
<flocculant> bluesabre: will we see panel?
<knome> i know it's a moving target and a lot depends on what happens on the xfce side, but maybe some sketch
<flocculant> knome: yea :)
<bluesabre> I think I'll set up a wiki page where we can track this with some accuracy
<flocculant> ty
<knome> well we have the first GTK3 release of panel out, so in terms of schedule, yes, it should probably be landing
<knome> bluesabre, ta, that'd be helpful
<flocculant> I use the panel 
<bluesabre> There's some fixes coming along for the panel, but it might be good enough for release, nudge ochosi for specifics
<knome> considering we're releasing on october and it's barely june here, i think we should be safe to say enough fixes have landed before freezes
<knome> but again... who knows what happens :)
<bluesabre> Yeah
<bluesabre> I'll be doubling down on the settings manager again after this parole release, so that might even be release worthy this cycle
<bluesabre> Definitely lots of fun things to play with
<flocculant> bluesabre: if there's a more or less working git one of those I can install it 
<bluesabre> flocculant: I'll look into that... I think we have something somewhere, or we can
<flocculant> I think I did some checking and bug reporting last cycle for that on bugzilla
<knome> #action bluesabre to put up a wikipage for traking GTK3-enabled components of Xfce in Xubuntu
<meetingology> ACTION: bluesabre to put up a wikipage for traking GTK3-enabled components of Xfce in Xubuntu
<bluesabre> thanks knome
<knome> np
<bluesabre> Nothing more from me atm
<knome> so... any other discussions or action items that should be added to make sure the discussions here are continued as needed?
<bluesabre> oh
<knome> :)
<bluesabre> Do we want to have some sort of flexible schedule for these meetings going forward, like a monthly checkin?
<bluesabre> The Council just decided to get this one rolling late last week
<knome> based on flocculant's suggestion
<knome> anyway, i was about to suggest that we try to schedule the next meeting between 1-3 weeks from the last one
<knome> so ideally every 2 weeks
<knome> but give some wiggle room because life
<flocculant> didn't we do that before?
<knome> i think yes at least when i was chairing each meeting :P
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> i mean, i don't mind chairing now and then
<knome> even on others' turns if they suddenly can't come
<flocculant> well - on the other hand - milestones come regularly - why not just do one week prior? 
<knome> that's all perfectly fine
<knome> i just hope that nobody has to be the person that is expected to chair every time :)
<bluesabre> I'm also not opposed to chairing more frequently, but my schedule usually misses everyone elses
<flocculant> nothing to stop having more than then
<knome> flocculant, definitely more coordination around milestones is needed
<flocculant> mmm
<knome> might be useful to have one meeting 2 weeks before and one meeting 1 week before each milestone
<bluesabre> Sounds reasonable to me
<knome> i think we can agree with bluesabre that the council can take the chairing for at least some of those meetings if it looks like the next-up-chair can't
<knome> or even:
<knome> schedule the meeting dates now, and the next-up-chair at that point chairs at a time that works for them - if the date isn't suitable for them at all, council takes the chair
<knome> with two betas that makes up to 4 "extra" meetings for council and i have no problem doing half of them if time permits
<knome> #nick council
<flocculant> knome: right - well I kind of meant use the 'milestones' not necessarily the ones we participate in 
<knome> #action council to have a talk about meetings before milestones
<meetingology> ACTION: council to have a talk about meetings before milestones
<knome> flocculant, aha... ack :)
<knome> anyway, from my POV it's better if the schedule can be organic
<flocculant> heh
<knome> unless there are milestones we participate in etc
<bluesabre> +1
<knome> so... anything else?
<flocculant> nope
<bluesabre> nada
<slickymasterWork> niente
<knome> ok
<knome> #topic Schedule next meeting
<knome> #action slickymasterWork to schedule next meeting
<meetingology> ACTION: slickymasterWork to schedule next meeting
<knome> slickymasterWork, in the next 1-3 weeks please :P
<knome> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed May 31 22:44:42 2017 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2017/xubuntu-devel.2017-05-31-22.00.moin.txt
<knome> thanks everybody
<bluesabre> thanks knome
<knome> i'll put up the minutes a tad later
<Unit193> 'Welcome.
<slickymasterWork> thanks knome 
<flocculant> thanks knome 
<knome> noooo worries
<bluesabre> what about that one?
<knome> nope, not even  that
 * bluesabre is impressed
<bluesabre> dinner time, bbl
<knome> bon appetit
<flocculant> night all
<knome> nighty flocculant 
<Unit193> xubuntu-artwork - 17.04 â 17.10; Bump to 17.10. (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-artwork/17.10)
<Unit193> xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin - 0.2.4-2 â 0.2.5-0ubuntu1; Re-connects to pa now. (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin/0.2.5-0ubuntu1)
<Unit193> xfce4-dict - 0.7.99-0ubuntu1 â 0.8.0-0ubuntu1; First stable release. (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-dict/0.8.0-0ubuntu1)
<Unit193> xfce4-terminal - 0.8.4-1 â 0.8.5.1-0ubuntu3; Bugfix release.
<Unit193> tumbler - 0.1.31-2build4 â 0.1.92.1-0ubuntu1; development based on gdbus, add support for *.thumbnailers (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tumbler/0.1.90-0ubuntu1, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tumbler/0.1.92.1-0ubuntu1)
<Unit193> Little late, but just after meeting is close enough.\
<knome> :P
<knome> i'm sure that was intentional
<Unit193> Eh, well I was at a funeral, then had to get part of supper on.
<knome> ouch
<knome> i'm sorry.
#xubuntu-devel 2017-06-01
<flocculant> knome: minutes done 
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfconf 4.13.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfconf-4-13-0-released-tp49331.html (by Ali Abdallah-4)
<knome> flocculant, noticed, thanks
<knome> was just about to do it myself :P
<flocculant> np :)
<flocculant> woke up early - by 7:30 I was wideawake ...
<ochosi> crap, sorry i forgot about the meeting... :( was really tired so i ended up going to bed 30mins too early...
<knome> indeed you did
<flocculant> ochosi: at least we weren't waiting for you to start it :p
#xubuntu-devel 2017-06-02
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> can't imagine there's going to be any mad issues or panics - but if there are ask akxwi-dave ... I'm in and out like the fiddler's elbow for a few days
<akxwi-dave> have fun kev..
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: I shall 
<Unit193> knome: I think it's best to figure out the Core stuff sooner rather than later.
<knome> yes, i've already poked infinity
<knome> no reply yet though
 * knome pings again
<flocculant> knome: not seen him active for a few days at least in -release, maybe holidays or something
<Unit193> flocculant: He's active now in -devel.
<flocculant> ok 
<knome> yep, 11 min idle time :P
<Unit193> Did I mention stretch has a release date?
#xubuntu-devel 2017-06-03
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: parole 0.9.2 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-parole-0-9-2-released-tp49349.html (by Sean Davis-6)
<bluesabre> That's basically been the last two weeks of my life >.<
#xubuntu-devel 2017-06-04
<flocculant> bluesabre: was it worth it though :)
<Unit193> Once he sees bugs roll in, no.
<flocculant> heh
<flocculant> well I built it and at least I know it clears what it's supposed to :)
#xubuntu-devel 2018-05-28
<willem> sublevel, thanks. I'll have a look at sources.list; but all I know is that I did not edit it myself.
<sublevel> willem: may be useful to tell the channel what version xubuntu, if it's fresh install or upgrade,  and if you're installed any software via something other than apt or the Software store GUI
<ali1234> did someone just clean out the ml spam filter?
<willem> sublevel, sorry, you're right: I should've made clear: I'm testing 18.10 at the moment. I had a look at the sources list, commented out line 52 and now all's well again. 
<willem> I can not realy think how this situation came about.
<ochosi> evening all
<bluesabre> evening ochosi
<ochosi> heya
<ochosi> what's new? i've been afk for a while (at least if feels that way)
<bluesabre> how's it going?
<bluesabre> not much, git migrations, couple podcasts about xubuntu, recharging the batteries
<ochosi> good good, quite busy and a bit of coding fatigue tbh :)
<ochosi> plus the weather is recently nice outside
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> It's been absurdly hot here this past week
<ochosi> neat
<ochosi> i mean at least if you don't have to sit in an office wearing a suit
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> office is pretty lax in regard to that
<bluesabre> the two sides of the office constantly battle over the thermostat, so the temp fluctuates all day
<ochosi> i guess that's good..?
<bluesabre> keeps me awake at least :D
<ochosi> other than the git transition, i guess we should focus on getting the upstream stuff that's left in shape
<ochosi> i started contributing a bit to thunar-vcs to get the thunar plugin situation sorted a bit
<bluesabre> nice
<ochosi> and i guess -settings is another big one
<bluesabre> xfconf is the blocker for it all
<ochosi> but i'd rather focus on fixing a few remaining panel issues (apart from the deprecation warnings, which are obviously legion)
<ochosi> yeah, we mostly need testing there i guess
<ochosi> at what the regression potential is
<bluesabre> probably minimal, but lots of things need rebuilt for it
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> maybe that's not as bad as it sounds
<bluesabre> yeah, it's not
<bluesabre> just effort, and if something fails to build, a few minutes turns into a few hours
<ochosi> bluesabre: i guess there's no way to just rebuild the first half, that also makes it harder...
<ochosi> in terms of signing up for it
<bluesabre> Yeah. Will probably try to get that started in the next week or so.
<ochosi> that sounds nice, will give us a lot of time for testing
#xubuntu-devel 2018-05-29
<bluesabre> Unit193: would you mind refreshing https://code.launchpad.net/~unit193/lightdm-gtk-greeter/+git/lightdm-gtk-greeter master so I can mirror it?
<bluesabre> Also asked the lp devs if translation syncs with git are possible
<Unit193> Yes, and good.
<bluesabre> 6:21 AM <cjwatson> bluesabre: Not yet, sorry.
<bluesabre> 6:21 AM <cjwatson> One of the remaining gaps.
<Unit193> Bah, quite unfortunate..
<Unit193> bluesabre: What got merged by slang?
<bluesabre> Unit193: seed changes into cdimage
<bluesabre> seed bzr -> git
<Unit193> Wondered, cool.
<bluesabre> Realized when I did community-artwork that I haven't been pushing the exported git tags
<bluesabre> So get to go back and do that with everything tonight
<bluesabre> :p
<Unit193> Pushed.
<bluesabre> Unit193: thanks. Will swap that in tonight.
<Unit193> Sure, glad it was useful.
<Unit193> I have the xubuntu-docs sync too.
<bluesabre> Awesome
<onefallen> Hello slickymaster and flocculant decided to see what is happening here.
<flocculant> hello onefallen 
<slickymasterWork> hi onefallen, welcome
<onefallen> let me know how I can help here  (aka 1fallen)
<flocculant> \o/ I guessed right then :p
<onefallen> yes using 1 is not good on IRC
<flocculant> at the moment - nothing much is going on - don't know if you're subscribed to the dev mailing list? I mostly talk to people there - also I mail the LP team, so you could get prompts via that
<onefallen> Thanks kev I'll do that then ;)
<flocculant> https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-testers is the lp team
<onefallen> Great Thanks for the link
<flocculant> we're doing dailies obviously - just not told anyone that yet
<flocculant> and milestones this cycle - are not alpha1,2/beta1 - just some 'testing weeks' and 1 final beta
<onefallen> Good to know :)
<flocculant> I see you joined -testers :p
<onefallen> joined the team under Rick S
<flocculant> yup
<flocculant> https://docs.xubuntu.org/contributors/ and https://wiki.xubuntu.org/qa/new_tester_start 
<flocculant> but I would suspect the latter was teaching granny to suck eggs for you
<flocculant> pretty much the first as well I would guess
<flocculant> anyway - not sure what sort of irc setup you have - we do the major part of our talking here
<flocculant> and we offtopic chat in #xubuntu-offtopic
 * flocculant goes back to sorting things after getting home from work
<onefallen> reading both links now
<flocculant> onefallen isn't likely to find much new :p
<onefallen> still it dose not hurt
<flocculant> of course :)
<willem> onefallen, hi - I may be one of those granny's sucking eggs for you at https://wiki.xubuntu.org/qa/new_tester_start, as I helped write some of those pages. :-) If you do have a look there, and find something lacking, missing or wrong, or know of tricks to make life easy for new testers, I'd be most interested.
<flocculant> hey willem :)
<onefallen> thanks willem :
<willem> flocculant, hi. Had a nice bank holiday?
<flocculant> yup I surely did :)
<flocculant> willem: hey - you know that you could fix your bug here now :D bug 1758682
<ubottu> bug 1758682 in Ubuntu Manual Tests "To be asked to open Thunar suggests the end user knows the name of the application" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1758682
<willem> :-)
<willem> cool; will do so. Won't be today though
<flocculant> no problem :)
<willem> BTW: there's a flip side to this test case; I checked over at xfce.org: Thunar *should* apparently show up when the user types in Thunar: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14326
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 14326 in General "Thunar should show up by name, if user searches the app by typing in 'thunar' in whiskermenu" [Normal,Resolved: wontfix]
<flocculant> bluesabre Unit193 ^^
<flocculant> probably worth reporting to Launchpad and then adding the xfce bug to it - if you don't know how I'll show you
<willem> flocculant, will do that
<flocculant> if I add thunar to generic name - it comes up
<flocculant> willem: on that bug - click the Also affects project button - put in the xfce bug url :)
<flocculant> oh - you did already \o/
<flocculant> confirmed it btw
<willem> flocculant, yea, as I said: I like to first try and fail myself before asking some one else ;-) Was going to ask you to have a look if I done well... 
<flocculant> you did :D
<flocculant> I also added it to the 18.10 bug blueprint
<willem> flocculant, ta
<Unit193> bluesabre: Also pushing xfconf now would be a bit early.  xfdesktop would need to be updated, which would need the new thunar, which would need all the patched plugins.
<bluesabre> Unit193: alrighty, good point. Do we want to decide on a go/nogo date for xfconf and everything else?
<Unit193> No idea.
#xubuntu-devel 2018-05-30
<bluesabre> With all the git migrations, also been filling in the gaps in release tags
<bluesabre> https://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/log/?h=cosmic and https://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/log/ show off our complete tag lists :D
<Gr1nch> hello guys!
<knome> hello
<Gr1nch> Current I need to upgrade an Xubuntu from:
<Gr1nch> # cat /etc/lsb-release  DISTRIB_ID=Ubuntu DISTRIB_RELEASE=17.04 DISTRIB_CODENAME=zesty DISTRIB_DESCRIPTION="Ubuntu 17.04"
<Gr1nch> to the most recent 18.4
<knome> the support channel is #xubuntu
<Gr1nch> as far i know..
<Gr1nch> oh! thanks
<Gr1nch> sorry for disturb guys
#xubuntu-devel 2018-05-31
<Unit193> bluesabre: Dang you've been busy, making me the slacker. :(
<bluesabre> Unit193: wanted to get the git stuff done before June
<bluesabre> Made it :D
<Unit193> Seems you've done well.
<Unit193> At least it looks like I'm not entirely useless. :P
<bluesabre> :P
<bluesabre> if you have any ideas for dev documentation we can write up, let me know
<Unit193> Looks like I need to modify what I do with the docs now though..
<Unit193> Once everything is complete, likely going to want to send a message to the list such that everyone knows things have moved?
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> Was planning to send out a mail on June 1
<bluesabre> And document more (if needed) on https://wiki.xubuntu.org/devel/git to make it easier to move
<Unit193> Problem is translations, and docs wants that for sure..
<bluesabre> Yeah
<Unit193> Also my English there was quite horrible.
<bluesabre> Made it a point to not delete the -docs branches for that reason
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> So, my script is still pulling from bzr, converting, and pushing to git...
<bluesabre> time for bed now, bbl
<Unit193> OK, well sleep well.
<SwissBot> feed xubuntu-default-settings had 10 updates, showing the latest 7
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Launchpad automatic translations update. @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=511ab360a2626ab5f1c1fd891717f8c961962c83 (by Launchpad Translations on behalf of xubuntu-dev)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Use 55numlockx for not enable numlock for laptops (LP: #1759112) @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=813ad54abad8980c7d547ea0237331ee7b864ea3 (by Krytarik Raido)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Release 18.04.5 @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=355aa2d882e156d78732e57d198cf9aca02d33cd (by Sean Davis)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Launchpad automatic translations update. @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=ae0bc81c604f22ae41dded05e6b8dc474fe11182 (by Launchpad Translations on behalf of xubuntu-dev)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Set the default value for fadeout in xfce4-notifyd (LP #1763674) @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=9471087dc85a61e66fda8a633c6c571c6173dc46 (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Set the default value for fadeout in xfce4-notifyd (LP: #1763674), release 18.04.6 @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=af013d0bae84d41b8b0a65871d95edf6bc615da7 (by Sean Davis)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Launchpad automatic translations update. @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=8df12b7e84d1460b9644d07a46a0c78486f312f9 (by Launchpad Translations on behalf of xubuntu-dev)
<SwissBot> feed xubuntu-artwork had 10 updates, showing the latest 7
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: Release 18.04.3 @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/commit/?id=40732a05448daea3713b2205a09951555ef5a0df (by Sean Davis)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: Generate icon theme caches for all included icon themes @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/commit/?id=aeea22b15aec9f6b3c5a42c8d65861840fe60bce (by Sean Davis)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: Close LP: #1756054 @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/commit/?id=c06dbba48b601638acef3331cca5d42f9b16b6e9 (by Sean Davis)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: Update elementary-xfce window manager icons from d823986 @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/commit/?id=f4cffbd4e89af4fcdacdc5ed3b2ebfc5524fbc1f (by Sean Davis)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: Update elementary-xfce to 3ab8783 @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/commit/?id=547995c3384718502962a38cfdec6cdb72d46188 (by Sean Davis)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: Release 18.04.5 @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/commit/?id=1f322d4f9fcf826c77262adf07b664992fcf359d (by Sean Davis)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: * debian/xubuntu-wallpapers.links: @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/commit/?id=198f0f1ad7332a3a2a32c7170aa1e74fbad7be15 (by Sean Davis)
<Unit193> This is fun...
<Unit193> Sorry guys, updating feeds and it seems it wants to tell you all the cool new things.
<pleia2> hehe
<Unit193> Also known as "Go home SwissBot, you're drunk"
<glenn> Hi, newbie here. What is difference between Xubunto and regular Ubunto?
<Unit193> Xfce vs GNOME.
<flocculant> hah
<Unit193> flocculant: You modified and used my template. :3  I endeavor to make the meeting.
<flocculant> :D
<flocculant> tried to do it for when the three of us could be - even if it is 23:00 before I wake up 2 hours before the 06:00 alarm :p
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> ochosi, did you say the 1px panel nudge was fixed for 18.04 or a newer panel release?
<pleia2> knome: did you unsub the person who asked on -devel-owner?
<pleia2> ~3 hours ago
<knome> no
<flocculant> thanks knome btw
<flocculant> ochosi: do you know what the idea is with this stuff? https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-test-case-dev/ubuntu-test-cases/desktop/files
<knome> flocculant, for what this time? :) (np)
<flocculant> calendar :D
<knome> ah, np
<knome> it's set up in my thunderbird so it's pretty easy to go set an event up
<flocculant> aah right - I'd need to go to google - check how to do it - try and remember password - then do it :p
<knome> ;)
<knome> because i'm weird, i also happen to remember my password
<flocculant> :D
<Unit193> Always had timezone issues.
<knome> in tb i can just tell i want to add the time in UTC
<knome> that's really handy because i hate timezone conversions
<Unit193> I always include a timeanddate link, as well as a conversion for bluesabre because I'm not sure he can do it. :3
<flocculant> ha ha 
<knome> lol
<knome> it helps to be relatively close to UTC...
<knome> i mean i can add 2 or 3 to any number possible without messing it up!
<bluesabre> :p
<Unit193> bluesabre: Juuust kidding!  You happen to live in my timezone.  So, xfce4-statusnotifier-plugin...You want to gitify that?
<bluesabre> Unit193: sure, can grab that soonish
<Unit193> FWIW, can just  git init;gbp import-dsc --pristine-tar ../xfcethingy*.dsc
<Unit193> bluesabre: https://salsa.debian.org/debian-ayatana-team/xfce4-statusnotifier-plugin
#xubuntu-devel 2018-06-01
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: mousepad 0.4.1 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-mousepad-0-4-1-released-tp51112.html (by AndrÃ© Miranda)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-dict 0.8.1 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-dict-0-8-1-released-tp51113.html (by AndrÃ© Miranda)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Please review the git repo?  It's all good?
#xubuntu-devel 2018-06-02
<bluesabre> evening all
<bluesabre> Unit193: will check it out now
<bluesabre> Unit193: looks good to me
<bluesabre> Unit193: do you have a good way to test cdimage? I refreshed https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/ubuntu-cdimage/xubuntu-base, but tests were failing so I tweaked it a bit
<bluesabre> (tests pass now)
<bluesabre> Proposed merges for the base/core branches, linked from https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-c-development
<bluesabre> Unit193: anything we should add or change on https://wiki.xubuntu.org/devel/git ?
<bluesabre> (Anybody else, any feedback?)
<Unit193> Bluesabre: Fantastic!
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: thunar-vcs-plugin 0.1.90 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-thunar-vcs-plugin-0-1-90-released-tp51118.html (by AndrÃ© Miranda)
<flocculant> bluesabre: thanks for doing that
<flocculant> willem: caught up now - triaged all your bugs :)
<willem> flocculant, great. will have a look. BTW: does the move from bzr (see above, bluesabre) going to have impact on the work flow for test cases?
<flocculant> nope
<willem> glad to hear it :-) BTW: good morning
<flocculant> and good morning to you too :)
<willem> shall I assign the test case bugs to myself and start work on them?
<flocculant> if you want to - I'd certainly not be telling you to do it :p
<willem> will do so. Nice chance for me to get a bit more comfortable with the workflow.
<flocculant> :)
<willem> Just noticed I typed mugshit in stead of mugshot :-)
<flocculant> yea I did rofl there :D
<Unit193> Hah, nice.
<flocculant> hi Unit193
<Unit193> Hello.
<willem> morning
<bluesabre> willem: lol
<flocculant> morning bluesabre 
<bluesabre> morning flocculant 
<flocculant> contributor doc .xml files are one of those things I dislike
<bluesabre> :)
<flocculant> I suspect all of them not just contributor ones - but not too bothered about the others lol
<bluesabre> xml in general is a pain in the side of many
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: I guess we'll be wanting some sort of agenda for meeting - currently it's empty - I have one or two little things to add re testing this cycle
<flocculant> maybe we should at least bring up Core now you've updated them
<bluesabre> flocculant: yeah, we can discuss core and git, maybe some generic blueprint chat, or dev wants from the team
<flocculant> yep
<flocculant> and 32 bit maybe ...
<bluesabre> is it still us and lubuntu on that front?
<flocculant> yea - no change since Unit's meeting
<flocculant> fence will get heavy with both us and Lubuntu sitting on it :p
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> it's a weird scenario for us... none of us really use it, except Unit193, who actually depends on it for one of his machines
<flocculant> yea - not been able to physically test on an actual 32 bit machine for a long long time
<flocculant> oh god ... the cont docs are miles out of date re ppa's :|
 * flocculant ponders the easy route - delete the section :p
<flocculant> which reminds me - can I haz comic ppa's soonish :D
<bluesabre> flocculant: yes, remind me on a different day :)
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
 * flocculant will remind via a topic and action on Monday night :D
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> good call in that other place :p
<flocculant> slickymaster: I grabbed your meeting call - assuming you've not read the mail yet - you can have the next one :p
<flocculant> bluesabre: added some things to agenda - some with your name too ;)
<bluesabre> flocculant: thanks
<flocculant> bluesabre: do these ppa descriptions make sense? https://pad.ubuntu.com/nk7ahsX5Sv
<flocculant> updating the cont docs - which are of the old 3 :p
<flocculant> running off out now - have a good one - will be back later 
<bluesabre> flocculant: sound acceptable to me
<flocculant> okey doke - cheers
<flocculant> slickymaster knome - updated qa bits of the cont docs in an mp
<flocculant> and deleted it - then did make clean - then did it all again :p
<Unit193> I can look into cosmic PPA Monday.
<Unit193> Also yes I do, but I'm an upgrader soo..
<knome> flocculant, lol :)
<flocculant> knome: :p - and then there were some make files still - I ended up pulling from bzr and redoing it all lol
<knome> flocculant, awwh :)
#xubuntu-devel 2018-06-03
<flocculant> ochosi: what is it that makes icon sizes in the panel inconsistent? can it be dealt with is the bigger question I guess :)
<bluesabre> flocculant: we started a discussion about it recently. I think the plan is to add something to the panel that the plugins can query to make everythign consistent
<flocculant> bluesabre: aah cool :)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-taskmanager 1.2.1 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-taskmanager-1-2-1-released-tp51128.html (by Landry Breuil-2)
<flocculant> slickymaster: ok - well it all goes nicely until pushing then it wants stuff I can;t give it - so that's me out of doing anything with our docs now
<flocculant> bluesabre: ^^ git is fine if there's docs to tell people what's now needed
<bluesabre> flocculant: indeed, going to finish up the documentation for it today
<flocculant> bluesabre: ta - someone will find it useful :D
<flocculant> bluesabre: got to say I'm really not impressed with this changing and breaking how some people work 
<bluesabre> flocculant: yeah, it's a bit of a workflow shift, and there's both benefits and downsides to it
<slickymaster> knome, did you see my previous ping about https://docs.xubuntu.org/1804/user/en_GB/index.html and https://docs.xubuntu.org/1804/user/fr/index.html being down?
<bluesabre> the fact that the canonical folks are adding git to launchpad is a sign that even they don't have confidence in the future of bzr
<flocculant> mmm
<flocculant> would be ok if the workflow worked ;)
<bluesabre> so best to do it at 18.10 instead of 20.04
<bluesabre> It does/will
<flocculant> anyway - sunday evening stuff to do
<flocculant> back later maybe
<uben> Hi! I'd liked to report a bug on Xubuntu 18, Audacity doesn't detect playback sound, it does work on Xubuntu 14.
#xubuntu-devel 2019-05-27
<pragomer> a thing I often discoverd with this new icon theme: the edges (left and right side) are not straight, please have look here:
<pragomer> http://i.imgur.com/r6F4G9W.png
<pragomer> is this "normal"? 
<pragomer> and if I look closer: http://i.imgur.com/mZjB0qA.png
<pragomer> the lines are not accurate at all. any idea what causes this?
<brainwash> pragomer: upscaling?
<pragomer> this is the default look. sorry for my not-so-good english, but what do you mean by "upscaling"? dpi? it is set to defaults
<brainwash> my guess would be that the icons are scaled up, but poorly
<bluesabre> that's actually how the icons look as SVGs at their native size... It's just a bad angle that doesn't translate well to pixels
#xubuntu-devel 2019-05-28
<tracker0> Hay Everyone
#xubuntu-devel 2019-05-29
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-cpugraph-plugin 1.0.90 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-cpugraph-plugin-1-0-90-released-tp53885.html (by AndrÃ© Miranda)
#xubuntu-devel 2019-05-30
<Unit193> ...Huh, the cpugraph looks like it was a very good port. :3
#xubuntu-devel 2019-05-31
<bluesabre> :)
<Thr0r> Hi. I tried to install xubuntu alongside my win7. Created bootable USB and booted and the installation started just fine. But it did not detect my win7 OS so I did not install it. Then I tried the Ubuntu studio and that install detected my win7 OS and I installed studio. Grub dualboot works fine. But is it possible to get/install the xubuntu desktop when studio is installed? ..with all its look and menus look and all, or does that
<Thr0r>  require a full new install? I like the xubuntu better...
<pleia2> this isn't a development question, so it's much better off in #xubuntu :) but the short answer is yes, you can install the xubuntu-desktop package, then select that desktop when logging in
<Thr0r> oh thanks, so i can ask there how to do it. new to this..
#xubuntu-devel 2019-06-02
<bluesabre> FYI for those keeping up with Mugshot, https://bluesabre.org/2019/06/02/mugshot-has-moved-to-github/
<bluesabre> Would anybody be up for a community meeting sometime next weekend? The only thing I have listed on my calendar is a taco festival. :D
#xubuntu-devel 2020-05-25
<knome> bluesabre, my gut feeling is that we could do with a single project for the whole release, just add a column for each "blueprint"
<knome> but ofc, the development board might be a bit more complex than the, say, artwork one
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Apply translations in lt @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/bca8743e86cc2505617429baa107d18e087abc90 (by transifex-integration)
<bluesabre> knome: I'm fine with that. Maybe we have a column for each project to-do, a single in-progress, and a single done?
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- Reminder: Next meeting chair is knome
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Show Xfce Terminal launcher in the menu (LP: #1851387) @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/89105808079dfbd79ee317a33539553ce2a203fc (by bluesabre)
<bluesabre> Oh, that's fast.
<jphilips> bluesabre: saw your latest patch and think it wasn't the right move, as i was suggesting the terminal label should be renamed
<jphilips> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16647
<ubot93> Xfce bug 16647 in Xfce4-terminal "xfce4-terminal: improve whisker menu search and fix terminal settings name" [Normal, Resolved: Moved]
<jphilips> patch has been submitted for over a month, but nobody has merged it
<jphilips> being able to find terminal preferences in the menu is important IMHO
#xubuntu-devel 2020-05-26
<bluesabre> jphilips: I donât think itâs a problem when the preferences will still be displayed in the settings menu. Otherwise Renaming it now means you have a redundant âpreferencesâ label in the settings manager.
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Apply translations in hu @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/a35e4ca2e6c24dddb5fe78c0bbac077a11410025 (by transifex-integration)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Translate /usr/bin/po/thunar-print.pot in hu @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/06ad8695c37bee2660d992f78e4685113a99ec00 (by transifex-integration)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Apply translations in hu @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/abebcfd42e0dd3e456e9bd29085b5381fb64edb5 (by transifex-integration)
<jphilips> bluesabre: likely the word 'settings' and 'preferences' should be stripped from the end of any entries in settings manager, as i see 'onboard settings' and 'xfdashboard settings'
<jphilips> Unit193: does this sound accurate - This edition is targeting users who want to install just the apps they want to suit their specific needs from a cleaner base, as well as distribution developers who want to create their own Xubuntu derivative.
<Unit193> jphilips: Except the latter part, yeah.
<jphilips> Unit193: so its not intended for those intending to make derivatives?
<Unit193> Not really, nope.  If someone wants to make a deriv they should likely build an iso rather than cracking one open and changing things.  Also I think they'd have to strip some of the Ubuntu stuff due to copyright or something like that.
<bluesabre> That was faster than expected... we got a new slideshow translation! https://github.com/Xubuntu/ubiquity-slideshow-xubuntu/commit/8460311690d35221d54ca236108f6819542db2fe
<ochosi> cool
<bluesabre> knome: consolidated project tracker, https://github.com/orgs/Xubuntu/projects/5
<jphilips> bluesabre: shouldn't they be using transifex rather than modifying the file in git
<bluesabre> jphilips: that's the transifex bot syncing it back to the repository
<jphilips> oh okay, sweet :D
<jphilips> Unit193: okay thanks.
<Unit193> I think there's proper deriv guidelines on the site even.
<jphilips> https://xubuntu.org/dev/derivatives/
<jphilips> not really guiding people on how to create a derivative
<Unit193> No, just has the guidelines.
<jphilips> might be useful to try and work with these people who are getting xubuntu installed for education, as they are building their own tailor made xubuntu images - https://twitter.com/A_Dobbie11/status/1263276876761530368
#xubuntu-devel 2020-05-27
<bluesabre> jphilips: they've been doing pretty good on their own. I'm in contact with them.
<jphilips> oh okay
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-settings 4.15.1 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-settings-4-15-1-released-tp59176.html (by Sean Davis-6)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: exo 4.15.1 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-exo-4-15-1-released-tp59177.html (by Sean Davis-6)
<jphilips> bluesabre: it was correct to have this under website todo and not doc todo - https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-website/issues/11
<ubot93> Issue 11 in Xubuntu/xubuntu-website "Update website feature tour" [Open]
<jphilips> we may collab in google docs, but it still will be put on the website
<jphilips> bluesabre: what do we do with the unreviewed/unmerged translations of xubuntu slides on launchpad.
<jphilips> for example the 10 untranslated in indonesian were submitted last month
<jphilips> https://imgur.com/Br6iHMg.png
<jphilips> did we transfer all the languages over, as i see Hindi listed in LP but not in Transifex
<jphilips> also I see Canadian French is 100% in LP but 40% in Transifex
<jphilips> Tamil also not listed on Transifex
<knome> bluesabre, huzzah
<bluesabre> jphilips: I'll take a look. All translations should be present, they're imported automatically from the git repo to Transifex.
<bluesabre> But I can also force them to update from the Transifex interface.
<jphilips> i see the hi.po file in git, but hindi not listed in transifex
<bluesabre> Added the translation to the list, I think it should pull the next time Transifex syncs
<jphilips> hope you added tamil as well.
<jphilips> bluesabre: any thoughts on the issue of the unapproved translated strings on LP
<bluesabre> jphilips: Iâll see if I can export them and apply to the git repo
<jphilips> let me know if it doesn't work and i can do it manually if need be
<jphilips> i'll putting out a call on social media tomorrow and next week for people to help out with translations
<jphilips> should we be pointing dev.xubuntu.org to github?
<pleia2> if we're still using launchpad for bugs, not necessarily
<pleia2> but the burndown chart software will have to be rewritten if we want to support GitHub issues
<pleia2> (it's built for launchpad)
<pleia2> for the website, we did migrate the issues, so it does seem like this will need a rewrite if we want to keep using it :\
#xubuntu-devel 2020-05-28
<bluesabre> jphilips_: looking now, it looks like Hindi and Tamil are both untranslated
<bluesabre> jphilips_: pulled in translations for Indonesian, Georgian, and Serbian Latin
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Apply translations in id @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/82864fda543b58bdda7b4916f2fca1d868b33cc1 (by transifex-integration)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Apply translations in id @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/a0c7615da0810de3cf56f037e56435fba0390bae (by transifex-integration)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Apply translations in id @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/1d8fb9d24eabbdc8d84e5c1b46fade08312dbb20 (by transifex-integration)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Apply translations in id @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/877a03506878f3e2cd7a1ed4e71f7670667e1bdb (by transifex-integration)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Translate /usr/bin/po/thunar-print.pot in id @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/bf1b29244ae067b67de75c7d231c3ebb472710aa (by transifex-integration)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Translate /usr/bin/po/thunar-print.pot in id @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/c6e68467be11d57847f7f85328af91164dcd756d (by transifex-integration)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: community-maas: do not follow recommends @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=912134c7cfd80e6c6bac62e729bea3ded3889228 (by Dimitri John Ledkov)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: Revert "Add community seed, that will be ignored by components missmatches" @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=eb46e6167afe2f66b38642baccac1fcc6d50629d (by Dimitri John Ledkov)
<jphilips> bluesabre: when you said 'pulled in translations', do you mean the non-approved user submitted translations?
<jphilips> any idea why the transifex page has a title tag of 'Glen (BugBuster) localization'
<jphilips> other languages not listed on Transifex which have 0% translation: Tibetan, Manx, Chechen, Belarusian, Acehnese
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Apply translations in sq @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/213fee115a5e2b70ec8956aa40b03f1ec321cc29 (by transifex-integration)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Apply translations in sq @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/66ec8ad610e86f6bfe6a240838970ed36ecf2eba (by transifex-integration)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Translate /usr/bin/po/thunar-print.pot in sq @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/0bb718f42357500d7c4de0a3b5a21e9a1c4f2e7e (by transifex-integration)
<jphilips> bluesabre: you planning to move menulibre also to github?
<jphilips> installer slides in japanese has been done \o/
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Apply translations in ja @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/77eddafdda3b9e890b109350b2a5e9758d64396a (by transifex-integration)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Translate /usr/bin/po/thunar-print.pot in ja @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/bc53092a744d18d4804e24da2dedd7f541029236 (by transifex-integration)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Apply translations in ja @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/eb08cd6c14a8f6fb0afa79d513749660122c7cb7 (by transifex-integration)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Apply translations in nl @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/f911b784c84dc5347ec3efc1a00eba7eb3df093c (by transifex-integration)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Translate /usr/bin/po/thunar-print.pot in nl @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/79cff509c650d00a39d17569431f4532e9a569bd (by transifex-integration)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Apply translations in nl @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/575c4c5b8d321b7bf6c2d41cca2c912cc08ab09d (by transifex-integration)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Translate /usr/bin/po/thunar-print.pot in it @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/d748e09a40ec3e2d9675422aaf0d9d35841961ae (by transifex-integration)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Apply translations in it @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/09d317c328b7704410cd3cc7d8a92709d5b10d3c (by transifex-integration)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Apply translations in it @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/972b81caafa76ec5c57cea243ed712e515357862 (by transifex-integration)
#xubuntu-devel 2020-05-29
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Translate /usr/bin/po/thunar-print.pot in sk @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/fa2e0362e0706c2031b27afccc8ab15719c82817 (by transifex-integration)
#xubuntu-devel 2020-05-30
<jphilips> bluesabre: does transifex not do any error checking?
<jphilips> https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/pull/1
<ubot93> Pull 1 in Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings "Fix typos in variables" [Open]
<bluesabre> jphilips: nope, most services don't. As we identify good language maintainers, we can promote them to "Language Coordinators" to monitor the incoming translations.
<jphilips> can we do any CI error checking to ensure that variables that exist in the english do exist in the translation?
<jphilips> is this okay https://imgur.com/4GNgDCV.png
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Fix typos in variables @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/7ed9e0539a50519205bd6c3b3b1d04f492dffc13 (by philipzae)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Merge pull request #1 from philipzae/patch-1 @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/616297d5ab5fb31fa9b843f0049efd5953747a59 (by bluesabre)
<bluesabre> jphilips: that one's ok. And yeah, we could build some action for that.
<jphilips> bluesabre: anyway we can hide the xubuntu-docs from the transifex page?
<bluesabre> jphilips: We can remove the project, but if folks want to translate it, we can use the updated translations for the 20.04 docs since its supported for 3 years.
<Unit193> I ran checks on those and ping bluesabre when someone breaks them. :3
<jphilips> yes you are right about keeping it for 20.04 updates
<jphilips> submitted two more patches to fix stuff in translations
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Apply translations in lt @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/4ae680a80b7a23d5609b6c3c7011c4494e6de219 (by transifex-integration)
#xubuntu-devel 2020-05-31
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: Translate /user-docs/po/user-docs.pot in pt @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-docs/commit/0d49f33a7dfaca623898a168f66059c2b648ef93 (by transifex-integration)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: Translate /user-docs/po/user-docs.pot in pt @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-docs/commit/716c5b5ee4e702cbc0f049524aa95e96a93bbb22 (by transifex-integration)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Apply translations in bg @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/c311a5e2fd6846ce971556db84c92bb682c34cb2 (by transifex-integration)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Apply translations in bg @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/a9b7783d1542baa138fa97968a79c3aa55a0c331 (by transifex-integration)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Apply translations in bg @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/9a784d545731e173f0f278c8fd75e6006b5f5127 (by transifex-integration)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Translate /usr/bin/po/thunar-print.pot in bg @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/6dbb0b9e3af52816e810e673ddd7520cd6d7d7a7 (by transifex-integration)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Apply translations in bg @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/0b6d9e43288d7697147e25891841301c409cdae6 (by transifex-integration)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Apply translations in ar @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/af618e852874c0e734b6054b2c3c2ad7c66916da (by transifex-integration)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Apply translations in ar @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/b76f27829f209b7781e0a5c493152420354bc202 (by transifex-integration)
<bluesabre> Goodness
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Apply translations in ar @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/aa266090d64168547ff4416e9ea76304470aea2f (by transifex-integration)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Translate /usr/bin/po/thunar-print.pot in ar @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/412d4c8b0e3b5c83799a8beb038186092a87d0d6 (by transifex-integration)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Apply translations in ar @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/829e7c6a91b4226e77e5bd712ef401efe561e2cb (by transifex-integration)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Apply translations in be @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/d8cdae4f9a3babac398a02d12f45f3b0ac99494e (by transifex-integration)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Apply translations in be @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/178771dd6477a84669af7bd48ac95d2577536b3e (by transifex-integration)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Apply translations in ar @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/268e0115f351f46e13e6e9a2cc0f5c32a892c851 (by transifex-integration)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Apply translations in ar @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/3bd32e6b891d82997d458dd92295222b3321b0ee (by transifex-integration)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Apply translations in ar @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/ac3b80ebc3364ebf8dd81e564484141abe060483 (by transifex-integration)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Apply translations in ar @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/bdaf30cff3a8775fe76859c7eb387c20a99205ed (by transifex-integration)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Apply translations in ar @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/f75cd3825a877e40435ae58e682be2dbdca2ed17 (by transifex-integration)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Translate /usr/bin/po/thunar-print.pot in ar @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/1724158f0e9d7efeea889eeee4a8bf10c3a21d91 (by transifex-integration)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Apply translations in ar @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/95aa142e0903e25ced9cf2aab524e1b713d8c7de (by transifex-integration)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Apply translations in ar @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/07a559ae74c708e990fc585e37a38e58810346c9 (by transifex-integration)
<jphilips> yep i reached out to my arabic contact and he did some work on default-settings
<jphilips> bluesabre: we will need to revert changes made by 'Leonardo MuÃ±oz' as he's been using a translator app for his submissions
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Apply translations in ar @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/d9d1ab72efcd7cc4d3d52597dbe4b7ccde853f71 (by transifex-integration)
<jphilips> bluesabre: my other 2 patches from the other day
<jphilips> https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/pull/2
<ubot93> Pull 2 in Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings "Replaced hyphens with spaces" [Open]
<jphilips> https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/pull/3
<ubot93> Pull 3 in Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings "Replaced quotes around variable" [Open]
<jphilips> does anyone know a recommended guide for manual partitioning during installation
<jphilips> found this askubuntu page but it has various people's recommendations - https://askubuntu.com/questions/343268/how-to-use-manual-partitioning-during-installation
<ali1234> jphilips: i have never been able to find one
<ali1234> the official line is "if you don't know what you want, then don't use manual partitioning"
<ali1234> this is not really a satisfying answer when what you want is "the defaults, but with this one thing changed"
<ali1234> and this is something i have been complaining about for 10 years
<ali1234> one thing i did noticed recently is that when you select manual partitioning on the new style server install, it is pre-filled with what you would get when selecting automatic. at least i think it is
<jphilips> ali1234: thanks for the info
<jphilips> i came across a few pages on the ubuntu website
<jphilips> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation
<jphilips> https://help.ubuntu.com/lts/installation-guide/amd64/install.en.pdf
<jphilips> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DiskSpace
<jphilips> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PartitioningSchemes
<jphilips> just not sure which to follow or to link to
<jphilips> was listening recently to a podcast which did the debate on the swap file vs disk and its size which also had me thinking
