#ubuntu-desktop 2008-03-31
<dholbach> good morning
<AlgorithmicContr> could someone lend me their un modified directory of /usr/share/icons/hicolor/22x22/apps
<mvo> good monring seb128 and njpatel
<njpatel> morning mvo
<Hobbsee> mvo!
<mvo> hey Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> mvo: so, why do a lot of people not have linux-$arch packages installed when using the dist upgrader?
<mvo> Hobbsee: do you have a example bugnumber for me please? there is code that deals specifically with the kernel, but it might be not dealing with every situation
<mvo> Hobbsee: (sorry, I was a couple of days away and haven't looked at the latest reports yet)
<Hobbsee> mvo: no, just a relatively high # of people in #ubuntu+1 not having their kernel modules, and complaining that their wifi doesn't work now
<Hobbsee> mvo: no problem.  How was your holiday?
<pitti> seb128: WDYT about disabling the gphoto gvfs backend? it's pretty buggy ATM
<pitti> seb128: f-spot-import is still not called by default, but we should fix that instead IMHO
<pitti> hey mvo, welcome back!
<mvo> hey pitti!
 * Hobbsee hugs pitti - morning!
<seb128> pitti: we got no bug about it and we didn't disable gphoto gvfs automounting upstream, you need to click on the camera icon to mount it
 * mvo hugs pitti
<seb128> s/didn't/did
<seb128> hey mvo!!!
<mvo> Hobbsee: very good, was good to refresh a bit
<mvo> seb128!!!
 * mvo hugs seb128
<mvo> but its also good to be back again :)
<mvo> Hobbsee: ok, thanks for the info! I will watch out for this in the bugreports and hang out in #ubuntu+1 a bit more  :)
<tjaalton> seb128: hey, what about bug 185387, there's a new patch upstream for GIO/GVFS
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 185387 in nautilus "can not drag a file to a nautilus folder which uses list mode" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/185387
<Hobbsee> tjaalton: excellent, thanks (@ key stuck bug)
<tjaalton> Hobbsee: works? nice :)
<crevette> hello
<Hobbsee> tjaalton: haven't upgraded yet
<Hobbsee> but i'm getting it with less freq than before, too
<mvo> tjaalton: out of curiosity, what happend to the hw overlay patches for i965? did they made it into hardy or are they defered ?
<tjaalton> Hobbsee: ah ok, it should be fixed now
<tjaalton> mvo: they have been in hardy for a couple of weeks now
 * tjaalton checks
<mvo> tjaalton: cool
<tjaalton> yep, since Fri 14 Mar
<seb128> tjaalton: no opinion about this one, that's not a priority and the patch is not trivial
<tjaalton> seb128: bummer :)
<seb128> tjaalton: and I don't use the list mode so it doesn't annoy me when using nautilus ;-)
<tjaalton> icon view is confusing :)
<pitti> seb128: right, but (1) it's not automounted, (2) clicking in places menu brings an error message, (3) opening in nautilus can't open the files, and (4) it prevents you from using f-spot/gthumb since gvfs locks cam access
<seb128> pitti: (1) it's not supposed to be automounted otherwise there is a lock on the camera and you can't use a software to do photo import (2) seems a gnome-panel bug (3) that's orthogonal issue to f-spot not being ran when the camera is plugged
<pitti> seb128: right, my (2) seems easy to fix, but (3) makes it pretty useless...
<pitti> maybe we should bring that up in the desktop team meeting
<pitti> but IMHO browsing files is not the first thing *I* want to do on my camera
<pitti> (assuming we can fix it to work in the first place)
<seb128> pitti: right, I don't really care about it right now, we have a zillion of bugs but almost none about this backend, so I was in "just ignore it" mode
<seb128> but I've no strong objection against dropping it for hardy
<pitti> I'm primarily interested in your opinion and the plan how it should be like in hardy final
<seb128> I think upstream thinks it's cool because you can browse your camera as any disk and dnd photos to copy those
<seb128> well, the plan is what we have now
<pitti> right, technically that is cool indeed :)
<seb128> the backend is available and not used
<seb128> people who want to use it can use it from the gnome-panel or the computer location
<seb128> and f-spot should be opened when plugging a camera
<pitti> so that will stay, ok; then we shuold at least get it fixed to work
<pitti> seb128: ok, I agree
<pitti> thanks
<seb128> I don't intend to spend any work fixing this one, no
<seb128> if it's too buggy drop it
<pitti> does it work for you? I just get errors when I click on a picture
<seb128> we have too many bugs right now and can afford spending efforts fixing things we don't use
<pitti> (that was my initial guess why I asked whether we should drop it)
<huats> morning everyone
<seb128> hey huats
<seb128> pitti: no that doesn't work because eog doesn't use gvfs so it doesn't understand gphoto locations, but I can browse and dnd photos to my desktop
<pitti> ah, so that was it
<seb128> pitti: I'm fine disabling it if it comes confusing
<seb128> pitti: that seems to be a gvfs or nautilus bug, selecting the actions to open a folder or ask what to do doesn't work either
<seb128> pitti: btw do you plan to look at this g-v-m mount errors soon? Would be nice to make sure they come from g-v-m and that changing it will not create side effects on gvfs
<pitti> seb128: which mount errors?
<pitti> I'm just aware of bug 202931
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 202931 in gnome-volume-manager "ejecting a CD/DVD with drive button gives always an error message but still works" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/202931
<pitti> which I'll fix soon
<seb128> pitti: bug #202931
<pitti> exactly :)
<pitti> seb128: I'll try to do it today
<seb128> pitti: I get a similar error when putting a CD in the drive
<pitti> oh, weird
<pitti> I don't
<pitti> and g-v-m does not automount any more
<seb128> but that's only on my desktop
<seb128> could be an user setting
<pitti> maybe similar to bug 95368 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 95368 in hal ""Cannot remove directory" on unmount due to stale .hal-mtab entries" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/95368
<pitti> i. e. stale /media/.hal-mtab?
<pitti> or conflicting options in fstab, broken cdrom symlinks, etc.?
<seb128> /dev/hdc        /media/cdrom0   udf,iso9660 user,noauto     0       0
<seb128> hum
<seb128> noauto there
<pitti> that's ok
<pitti> auto == mount at boot time
<seb128> WM_CLASS(STRING) = "gnome-mount", "Gnome-mount"
<seb128> the dialog is a gnome-mount one
<seb128> "gnome-mount -b -d /dev/hdc" is the corresponding command and it has been started by nautilus
<seb128> but something has been quicker at mounting it apparently
<pitti> what does it say?
<seb128> Couldn't mount the volume
<seb128> but it's already mounted so that's normal
<pitti> in any case, worth taking a look at /usr/lib/gnome-volume-manager/gnome-volume-manager -n
<pitti> if it tries to do something
<seb128> manager.c/2940: Device added: /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/volume_label_G71_VA31015
<seb128> manager.c/2723: Changed: /dev/hdc
<seb128> manager.c/2157: mounting /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/volume_label_G71_VA31015...
<seb128> manager.c/821: executing command: /usr/bin/gnome-mount --hal-udi=/org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/volume_label_G71_VA31015
<seb128> manager.c/3099: Mounted: /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/volume_label_G71_VA31015
<seb128>  
<seb128> yeah, it's mounting it
<pitti> a-haa
 * pitti just notes that autoipod is still enabled; is that supposed to stay in gvm, or move into nautilus, too?
<pitti> seb128: that should be covered by /desktop/gnome/volume_manager/automount_media
<pitti> but the gconf keys are entirely ignored in the code, hmm
<seb128> $ gconftool-2 -g /desktop/gnome/volume_manager/automount_media
<seb128> true
<seb128> right
<seb128> that's what I though, the redhat patch is supposed to disable those actions
<pitti> seb128: ok, I guess I'll get the same if I enable the gconf key; is there a bug about it?
<pitti> It should be easy to fix
<pitti> I guess filter_out_media_handling() needs to be applied at more places or so
<seb128> pitti: no bug about that apparently, I just noticed on my desktop
<seb128> should I open a bug?
<pitti> please; assign it to me and set it to 'in progress'
<seb128> ok
<pitti> still busy with fighting postgresql, but I'll poke at g-v-m in the afternoon
 * pitti hugs seb128
 * seb128 hugs pitti
<seb128> pitti: bug #209586
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 209586 in gnome-volume-manager "still automounts cdroms in hardy but should not" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/209586
<pitti> merci
<seb128> hey MacSlow
<MacSlow> seb128, Salut
<seb128> MacSlow: could you look to bug #207693?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 207693 in libwnck "gnome-panel crashed with SIGSEGV" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/207693
<seb128> MacSlow: gnome-panel crashing due to your tooltip patch, it has already 30 duplicates
<MacSlow> seb128, the steps to force the crash don't lead to a crash here... I tried it before the weekend too
<seb128> MacSlow: just mouseover out and in the tooltip a few times
<seb128> MacSlow: anyway seeing the number of duplicates there is a bug in the code, could you have a look to the issue?
<MacSlow> seb128, I will... but just moused-over (in and out) 30 times and nothing happened :)
<MacSlow> I'll try on the laptop again
<seb128> MacSlow: could be a race and not easy to trigger on your box, maybe try to run it in valgrind, it's likely to display errors
<huats> seb128: btw the gvfs update corrected the bug I was facing...
<huats> thanks
<seb128> which one was yours?
<seb128> timeout errors?
<huats> yep
<huats> I was facing it, every time...
<huats> and none since this morning :)
<seb128> huats: good ;-)
<pitti> shw
<pitti> sorry, EFOCUS
<kwwii> pitti: here is the latest change for gdm
<kwwii> pitti: http://sinecera.de/ubuntu-gdm-themes_0.28.dsc,  http://sinecera.de/ubuntu-gdm-themes_0.28.tar.gz,  http://sinecera.de/ubuntu-gdm-themes_0.28_source.build,  http://sinecera.de/ubuntu-gdm-themes_0.28_source.changes
<mvo> could someone with french skilz translate http://paste.ubuntu.com/6255 for me please?
<mvo> (only the error message)
<seb128> mvo: can create symlink, no such file or directory
<mvo> aha, thanks!
<seb128> can't
<seb128> you are welcome
<seb128> cracking on the upgrade issues list? ;-)
<mvo> yes, its long
<mvo> and seems to be mostly non-duplicates - this is both good and bad
<mvo> good = no obivous bugs / bad = many different ones
<crevette> hey
<crevette> seb128, would you be interested with tango icons for nm-applet ?
<crevette> I have uuencoded the files
<seb128> crevette: ask asac, I don't work on network-manager
<crevette> ah sorry
<crevette> asac, would you be interested with tango icons for nm-applet ?
<crevette> :)
<crevette> upstream author doesn't seems interested with
<pitti> kwwii: thanks, I'll upload it
<mvo> do we have python-support experts here? bug #208961 looks like a race in python-support
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 208961 in mesa "Update manager fails - From Gutsy to Hardy Beta" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/208961
<pitti> kwwii: hm, it only got marginally smaller; 3048270 -> 3036892
<kwwii> pitti: the point was not to make it smaller :-)
<pitti>    * Removing extra unused pics from the HumanList theme to reduce the file
<pitti> size.
<pitti> kwwii: 0.26 grew by quite a bit, and I thought you said back then that this was an error?
<seb128> mvo: open a bug about the issue in the bts?
<kwwii> pitti: one of the other themes had extra pics in it, I thought it would help to remove them
<kwwii> apparently it did not
 * pitti dputs for now
<kwwii> cool, thanks
<kwwii> anyone know how to set the Xephyr size (gdmthemetester uses it and it comes up too big on my screen)
<asac> crevette: how do they look like? maybe the icons should be made themable?
<crevette> asac, original :http://bmm80.free.fr/GNOME/shots/nm-fedora.png
<crevette> tango style
<crevette> or New GNOME either: http://bmm80.free.fr/GNOME/shots/nm-gnome.png
<kwwii> the gnome stuff looks much nicer
<kwwii> and it fits with the throbber in firefox
<kwwii> or nautilus
<crevette> yep
<kwwii> asac: from the looks, we should be using the new gnome stuff
<crevette> I could send a debdiff if I find how to uudecode in the package :)
<crevette> kwwii, and the feodra idonc are blurry
<crevette> oups
<asac> kwwii: what does "New GNOME" mean? will that be integrated in upstream network-manager?
<kwwii> crevette: right
<kwwii> asac: no idea
<crevette> asac, New GNOME; means for me, GNOME updated with tango style
<crevette> that happend few release ago
<kwwii> asac: new gnome is the new icons for gnome which are drawn in tango style
<asac> so they will be official soon?
<seb128> crevette: the question is to know why those are not used upstream yet?
<kwwii> but I doubt that nm icons will go in the gnome icon theme
<asac> or still an alternative theme?
<kwwii> the current fad is to put the icons with apps (again)
<crevette> seb128, Novell guys never pushed to get them upstream
<asac> crevette: maybe you can suggest them on the network-manager list?
<asac> i am subscribed and will see what the devs have to say
<crevette> seb128, I've opena bug and discussed on NM ML, but the developpers were not okay to replace their fedora icons (the auther is a RH guy) with GNOME icons
<crevette> asac, already done
<asac> crevette: aren't those themable?
<crevette> asac, how ?
<asac> crevette: really? have an archive link?
<crevette> yep
<crevette> letme find it
<crevette> asac, http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=504822
<ubotu> Gnome bug 504822 in nm-applet "Use GNOME updated style for icons" [Enhancement,Unconfirmed]
<asac> no idea ;) ... i don't know nothing about themes. seb128, how is that done technically?
<asac> i know about stock icons, but what to do if you want more?
<crevette> http://mail.gnome.org/archives/networkmanager-list/2008-January/msg00018.html
<crevette> asac, I don't now either about theme
<seb128> hate hate hate hate hate epiphany-browser in hardy
<asac> seb128: what else except the cert thing?
<asac> for which we are ---><---- that close to a fix
<seb128> asac: crash on closing and it often there is still a process running but nothing displayed (which could be the same issue)
<seb128> -it
<crevette> asac, http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=504822#c8 you 've some concerns
<seb128> which means opening doesn't work, it's stucked
<seb128> asac: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6256/
<asac> seb128: do you have a steps instruction to reproduce reliably?
<seb128> asac: no, it happen just every hour
<seb128> so I get it a lot, every day, but I've no special step, I just notice it while trying to open something and that doesn't work
<seb128> but might be because I close and open a lot
<seb128> so could be similar to the crash on shutdown
<seb128> asac: the stacktrace seems to indicate that's a lock on shutdown
<seb128> I guess most people keep an instance open somewhere and don't notice
<asac> seb128: do you have nspr dbgsym installed?
<seb128> no, but I can install those
<asac> please do and install the nss ones as well
<seb128> ok
<seb128> I've closed it now to copy the stacktrace on paste.ubuntu.com but I'll give you a new backtrace next time I get the bug
<crevette> asac, I'll try to provide you a patch tonight
<asac> thanks
<pochu> good morning
<seb128> hello pochu
<pochu> hey seb128
<pochu> seb128: is the archive backend working, or does it need to be enabled somewhere? (if I try to open a .zip it's opened in file-roller)
<seb128> pochu: it's working but not user visible yet, will upload the nautilus change this afternoon
<kwwii> seb128: can you look into the human icon theme package and tell me if I did the .links file correctly?
<kwwii> seb128: http://sinecera.de/human-icon-theme_0.26.dsc, http://sinecera.de/human-icon-theme_0.26.tar.gz, http://sinecera.de/human-icon-theme_0.26_source.build, http://sinecera.de/human-icon-theme_0.26_source.changes
<seb128> kwwii: will do
<seb128> kwwii: did you try to build it?
<kwwii> seb128: no, how should I do that?
<seb128> you don't try your package updates?
<seb128> I though you had some packaging training ;-)
<kwwii> seb128: usually, there is no reason as it is only a png or such
<seb128> sudo apt-get build-dep human-icon-theme
<seb128> dpkg-buildpackage
<kwwii> seb128: hehe, I know enough to get myself in trouble and anger you :p
<kwwii> w00t - it builds and works great :-)
<kwwii> http://sinecera.de/human-icon-theme_0.26_all.deb
<pochu> asac: are you uploading a liferea linked to xulrunner's sqlite? I thought you were, but from your comments in the bug I'm not sure now
<seb128> MacSlow: btw, bug #199380 has a valgrind log of the issue, could be due to libcompizconfig
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 199380 in libcompizconfig "gnome-panel crashed with SIGSEGV in g_object_get() (dup-of: 207693)" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/199380
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 207693 in libwnck "gnome-panel crashed with SIGSEGV" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/207693
<asac> pochu: i haven't prepared the fix. I just prepared the xulrunner part
<asac> pochu: we can build as now ... and start with proper LD_LIBRARY_PATH
<seb128> mvo: could you sponsor bug #199402 since you sponsored the recent uploads? ;-) The guy who attached the change is upstream so that should be correct
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 199402 in metacity "gnome-appearance-properties crashed with SIGSEGV in meta_theme_get_frame_style()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/199402
<ember> seb128 that debdiff only have the patch
<ember> thomas commited that on upstream
<ember> can i update gt with detach and profile fixed from svn?
<seb128> ember: next tarballs are due next week, there is no hurry to use svn changes
<ember> cool
<seb128> asac: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6257/
<seb128> asac: new stacktrace, same issue again
<kwwii> seb128, pitti: can one of you upload the human-icon-theme package? it works fine everywhere I test it
<seb128> I'll have a look soon
<pitti> kwwii: which? did I miss a ping?
<kwwii> excellent, thanks
<kwwii> pitti: nope, until now I only asked seb128 to take a look at it
<kwwii> http://sinecera.de/human-icon-theme_0.26.dsc,  http://sinecera.de/human-icon-theme_0.26.tar.gz,  http://sinecera.de/human-icon-theme_0.26_source.build,  http://sinecera.de/human-icon-theme_0.26_source.changes
<seb128> pitti: you are welcome to sponsor if you want, I'm just finish some gvfs changes and I'll look at it next
<seb128> but if you want to do it I'll not complain, I've a busy todolist ;-)
<pochu> asac: don't we need to build it linking to xulrunner's sqlite.h?
<asac> pochu: i don't think so. if we get to know that we do, we should fix that as well
<asac> someone asked me about some tango icons being CC licensed. is that the case? can they be distributed with a GPL application at all?
<pochu> asac: according to http://tango.freedesktop.org/Frequently_Asked_Questions#Terms_of_Use.3F they are cc-by-sa 2.5 which is not DFSG free (3.0 is though)
<pochu> not sure if it's ok for Ubuntu though
<asac> yes.  thats why i wonder
<asac> who encourages artists to use this kind of license?
<asac> pochu: does cc-by-sa have a "or any later version" clause by default?
<pitti> seb128: hm, bug 102495 -- AFAIR nautilus opens f-spot now, right? so this would actually be WONTFIX? does nautilus have similar dialogs now?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 102495 in gnome-volume-manager "'Always perform this action':  Ignore for photo card option doesn't work." [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/102495
<pitti> seb128: I guess it hasn't, but I want to verify before I close the bug
<asac> kwwii: do we distribute cc-by-sa 2.5 artwork (tango)?
<asac> kwwii: read a few lines above
<seb128> pitti: nautilus by default just run the action so the bug is deprecated I would say
<pitti> right; so it's replaced by the application chooser in the prefs
<seb128> yes
<pitti> seb128: at least, let's say it's *supposed* to run f-spot :)
<seb128> right ;-)
<pitti> I tried both 'f-spot' entries in prefs, neither works ATM
<pitti> seb128: btw, CD eject error message bug fix committed
<seb128> ah, excellent
<pochu> asac: don't think so:
<pochu> asac: don't think so:
<pochu> A new version of this license is available. You should use it for new works, and you may want to relicense existing works under it. No works are automatically put under the new license, however.
<pochu> http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.5/
<asac> pitti: is by-sa 2.5 ok for ubuntu (aka tango) ^^ ?
<pitti> yes
<asac> pitti: ok ... an upstream asked me how he can use tango icons in his GPL program (he is copyright holder) ... i said he should add an exception for artwork, did I tell the truth?
<pitti> asac: hm, I recommend to ask elmo for that; CC-BY-SA on its own is DFSG-free, but I don't know about the swamp of GPL compatibility
<asac> ok
<asac> pitti: pochu said that by-sa 2.5 is not dfsg free
<asac> only 3.0
<pitti> we have always considered it free enough for Ubuntu at least
<asac> k
<pitti> Debian didn't, right
<asac> maybe we should start: UFSG :)
<pitti> ATM, UFSG = DFSG + GFDL + CC-BY-SA
<pitti> yay, I formulated a sentence with *only* acronyms :)
<kwwii> mvo: we need to revert the human-theme changes (the murrine and clearlooks engine stuff), think you could find time to help me with that?
<mvo> kwwii: yeah, that should be possible
<kwwii> mvo: cool, thanks...I am heading out to the store now, I'll ping you later or tomorrow, depending
<marnanel> Can someone confirm that Visual Effects == "none" is Ubuntu-speak for "metacity is enabled", and "normal" and "extra" are Compiz?
<mvo> kwwii: ok, I will not be around too late today, but tomorrow works for me as well
<mvo> marnanel: confirmed (my fingeres wanted to type configure instead ;)
<marnanel> mvo: :)
<marnanel> mvo: thanks
<Keybuk_> though one day we hope compiz will come with a non-compositing backend ;)
<mvo> Keybuk_++
<nxvl> i can't run compiz with the nvidia drivers i downloaded
<nxvl> is there any know issue on that?
<Amaranth> nxvl: the only issue i know of is jockey not adding the right options to xorg.conf for nvidia-glx
<Amaranth> if you use nvidia-glx-new or install the non-legacy driver yourself it should work fine
<nxvl> Amaranth: mmm, maybe is my fault
 * nxvl tries
<nxvl> Amaranth: mm now it works
<nxvl> Amaranth: but i don't see the window manager borders
<Amaranth> sudo nvidia-xconfig --arg-argb-glx-visuals -d 24
<Amaranth> err
<Amaranth> sudo nvidia-xconfig --add-argb-glx-visuals -d 24
<Amaranth> arg describes my mood :P
<pitti> seb128: hmm; my bug fix for bug 209586 incidentally also fixed autophoto
<pitti> seb128: IOW, when I plug in my camera, f-spot opens now
<pitti> seb128: I wonder whether I should disable that explicitly now, or leave it enabled until we fix nautilus?
<nxvl> Amaranth: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/145360
<nxvl> Amaranth: apport has just make me jump into that bug
<Amaranth> yet another generic "it died in eventLoop" crash that gets duped to one of three reports
<nxvl> Amaranth: apport fault :P
<Amaranth> i'm fine with it, really
<Amaranth> since we have no hope of fixing them based on what apport reports anyway and most of them are not reproducable either
<nxvl> Amaranth: are you using nvidia own driver or ubuntu nvidia one?
<Amaranth> ubuntu
<nxvl> that must be the why
<seb128> bug #209586
<Amaranth> only thing on my system that isn't from the repos is savage (cool game)
<seb128> pitti: ah, excellent
<seb128> pitti: fix nautilus to do what?
<pitti> seb128: it was a "break the world" gconf bug :)
<pitti> seb128: open f-spot for cameras
<pitti> as it indicates in the media prefs
<seb128> well, you said that your change fixed it?
<pitti> seb128: it fixed it in g-v-m
<nxvl> Amaranth: what do you have under "Driver" on xorg.conf
<pitti> but AFAICS we should disable it in gvm and leave it to nautilus?
<seb128> ahh, ok
<Amaranth> nxvl: nvidia...
<nxvl> mm
<nxvl> same here
<seb128> I though -g-v-m was taking over and breaking the nautilus action
<seb128> hum
<seb128> pitti: disable it I would say, that will give us the motivation to fix nautilus quickly
<pitti> seb128: heh, ok
<mvo> Amaranth!
<mvo> Amaranth: would you mind to have a look at bug 201330 ? andrea_c7a in #ubuntu-bugs pointed me to it
<Amaranth> the 'fix' in there is wrong
<Amaranth> it whitelists every card someone says works fine
<Amaranth> even though i know a couple of those have issues
<Amaranth> to be safe i want to just blacklist all the ones fglrx works with
<Amaranth> so if you have a laptop and fglrx supports your card then you have to use fglrx because that means you have an r300 or newer and the mobile versions of those have problems
<asac> pochu: liferea uploaded. fix will be effective once the next xulrunner rolls as well
<pochu> asac: thanks
<seb128> asac: did you see the new stracktrace? is that anything useful for a bug report?
<asac> seb128: attach that to the same bug?
<asac> ill look in code later tonight
<asac> without that i cannot tell
<asac> (and will try to reproduce harder)
<seb128> asac: the crash on shutdown bug?
<asac> yes i think thats the one you are currently seeing, right?
<seb128> well, the stacktrace from today are a "some process is hanging in background and blocking new instances"
<seb128> asac: which is different of the "crash on shutdown"
<seb128> but could have the same cause
<asac> yeah... sounds related
<asac> attach to the same for now
<seb128> ok
<asac> (until we know more)
<pochu> asac: bug 209640, it has the "No symbol table info available." too, but it's with -0ubuntu2
<asac> hmmm ubotu is dead :)
<pochu> seb128: have you considered shipping shares-admin in a different package? so that foobuntu can decide whether to ship it or not
<pochu> asac: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/liferea/+bug/209640
<asac> pochu: could you reproduce?
<asac> maybe he didn't restart liferea :)
<asac> i usually ask them to restart X, because reporters often don't get that they didn't restart after upgrade
<asac> not sure if liferea users are better :)
<asac> and liferea is in the tray ... so likelyhood if it still running is high :)
<pochu> heh
<asac> otoh how could it run if it crashes ;)
<pochu> but if you're still unsure, he's jwendell on #ubuntu-{bugs,devel}
<mvo> pitti: does restricted-manager run anything that might lock the apt cache (this requires root)? bug #208112 looks like there might be a interessting race condition
<seb128> asac: added to https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xulrunner-1.9/+bug/191052
<asac> ok ... i soft-milestoned until we know more
<seb128> ok
<seb128> it's annoying but epiphany is not the default browser so not really an hardy target
<seb128> hardy-updates or 8.04.1 maybe ;-)
<asac> i hate timer driven crashes :(
<asac> seb128: well ... i need milestones (which i can move forward as required) ... to schedule my bug work efficiently so close before the release
<Amaranth> you mean you don't enjoy a crash that happens well after the thing that caused the crash thus making it impossible to debug?
<asac> Amaranth: right
<Amaranth> stay away from compiz then :P
<asac> i backported about 100 security fixes for that in the past three years :)
<asac> really annoying
<seb128> asac: right, me too, I asked a 8.04.1 milestone today, waiting for it ;-)
<asac> seb128: you remember if that happens in session that pop up a http password dialogÃ
<asac> Ã
<asac> damn keyboard ;9
<asac> arghhh
<seb128> asac: not sure if they pop up the password, but I might log in bugzilla.gnome.org during those sessions, the login, password are on the page itself though
<asac> ok ... good pointer. thanks
<seb128> you are welcome
<asac> i think we had some leakage in the password management callbacks at some point. not sure if thats gone in latest patch. but if thats the case it might be that it holds an indirect ref on the timer and so on
<asac> but ill see
<seb128> that one I'm not sure how I get it, it's there often enough though
<seb128> the crash on closing is really easy to trigger on my desktop and laptop hardy installations
<seb128> in any case let me know if you need extra informations
<pitti> mvo: not in --check mode, only if someone installs a driver
<seb128> mvo: not sure if you read that before, but could you do the bug #199402 sponsoring?
<lapo> yo seb working on iso image icon
<seb128> hey lapo, cool ;-)
<lapo> seb128: I saw a comment of yours on #525153, are you involved in the development there?
<seb128> lapo: let's say I'm rather doing active testing and small changes, I'm not one of the upstream maintainers for gvfs
<seb128> lapo: what icon name do you suggest as fallback?
<lapo> seb128: the media-encrypted approach is broken IMHO, since you can encrypt every possible media and you'll need to duplicate every possible media icon (bad, unmaintainable)
<lapo> seb128: for the fallback just the unencrypted media icon it would use
<lapo> seb128: I have serious dubts on own the whole gvfs icon handling is done
<seb128> what do you mean?
<seb128> this icon is used for luks mounts
<lapo> indeed
<lapo> the icon proposed shows an hd with a lock, but you could also encrypt a cd for example
<lapo> so having an hd+lock is wrong in that case
<lapo> the best approach imho would be to handle encryption with an emblem
<pochu> tedg: are you planning on do the GPM 2.22.1 update?
<tedg> pochu: Yes.  Probably to 2.22.1-1
<lapo> seb128: is an "luks mount icon" needs to be provided better to have something really generic like a floder+lock with the folder as a fallback probably, not sure tho
<mvo> seb128: sorry, missed that. let me have a look
<seb128> lapo: no idea what luks is and if a cd can use that, but right an emblem seems to be a good approch, I don't think gvfs can set emblems though
<seb128> lapo: anyway what icon should we use in hardy for now then?
<mvo> seb128: will do that when I'm back, I take a break now
<seb128> mvo: ok, enjoy!
<crevette> seb128, luks is an encrypted FS
<lapo> seb128: not sure how it is supposed to work, luks can be used on volumes I believe, so a folder is probably the best fallback
<lapo> crevette: since you know what luks is, which STANDARD icon it should use?
<crevette> lapo, I never use it, but I was planning to give it a try (since 1 year at least)
<crevette> :)
<lapo> eheh, same here more or less :-)
<crevette> I'm not sure it could be applied to a folder
<crevette> only
<lapo> I think it handle block devices
<crevette> yeah
<lapo> so partitions, and loopback files
<crevette> appart of a lockdonw, I down see
<seb128>   if (strcmp (hal_device_get_property_string (volume, "volume.fsusage"), "crypto") == 0)
<seb128>     is_crypto = TRUE;
<crevette> don't see
<seb128> lapo: that applies to filesystems apparently
<seb128> so not to a directory
<lapo> block devices then
<crevette> yeah, not on specific folder
<seb128> lapo: right
<lapo> anyway using the hd icon to describe a luks mount looks broken to me
<lapo> no?
<lapo> that's why I was thinking about the folder that is the most generic thing possible to describe a mount point
<seb128> I don't think a folder icon would be nice to list a partition in computer
<crevette> I would take the volume icon + encrypted icon
<crevette> now what should look like the encrypted icon
<lapo> crevette: that's what I proposed, but looks like it's not possible atm
<lapo> seb128: true tho
<seb128> what icon was used previous cycle for those?
<lapo> seb128: no one, I don't think we have it in the previous cycle
<lapo> s/have/had/
<seb128> we had it I think
<lapo> no idea then
<seb128> pitti: did we had icons for luks devices previous cycles?
<pitti> seb128: yes, that's a gvfs-age regression
<pitti> apparently it wants to use separate icons for encrypted devices
<pitti> but fails to fallback to the standard ones
<seb128> pitti: do you remember what icon was used?
<pitti> (human-icon-them does not provide encrypted icons)
<seb128> pitti: right, we are trying to figure what the "standard one" is
<seb128> pitti: neither does gnome-icon-theme
<seb128> pitti: that's not a fallback issue, they just use a name which didn't exist
<seb128> they implemented a new naming but the icon theme didn't catch up yet
<lapo> seb128: I'm not sure the icon theme will ever catch it up eh :-)
<lapo> seb128: there can't be a sane fallback tho, the less broken is probably media-harddisk :-/
<seb128> lapo: that will have to do for this cycle
<crevette> lapo, perhaps a vaulted disk ?
<lapo> seb128: it's not media-harddisk it's drive-harddisk, sorry
<lapo> crevette: vaulted?
<crevette> http://www.intelliot.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/vault.jpg
<crevette> okay time to back to home
<crevette> see you there
<pochu> slomo_: err, we still have taglib-sharp 2.0.2.0 :(
<pochu> slomo_: I prepared the paperwork some time ago, but I forgot about it. do you want me to file a FFe? if so, I hope you can argue for it :)
<slomo_> yes
<slomo_> definitely
<pochu> ok, on it
<pochu> slomo_: have you tested it on hardy? (if not, we will need to do it for the motu-release team to ACK it)
<slomo_> pochu: no, test it if you want, i can guarantuee that it works fine ;)
<pochu> heh, ok
<crevette> hi there
<crevette> if I need to uudecode a file in a debian package where should I put this file? under debian or patches ?
<pochu> slomo_: I'll test it using Banshee (guess that's fine)
<slomo_> pochu: of course, if you can import music in banshee and the tags are right it works
<slomo_> bbl now
<pochu> crevette: gnome-session has them in debian/
<pochu> slomo_: I guess banshee 1.0 is a no-go for Hardy, right?
<slomo_> pochu: there's no 1.0 before hardy release
<slomo_> pochu: just alphas until then... and they miss features, etc which stll need to be ported to the new code
<slomo_> hardy+1 and backports :)
<pochu> ok
 * pochu tests taglib-sharp
<pochu> crap
<pochu> banshee crashed :/
<pochu> hmm, weird
<pochu> it crashes on quit
<pochu> slomo_: can you open banshee and close it without doing anything? :)
<pedro_> pochu: bug 199496
<pedro_> blah, anyways that's the banshee/f-spot/tomboy/etc crash at exit, probably the one you're having with banshee too
<pochu> wow, 127 dups
<pochu> pedro_, slomo_: i guess it should be milestoned as we ship tomboy and f-spot by default ;)
<pedro_> mm i thought it was, ok it's now
<pochu> thanks
<pochu> hmm, now I've found that Rhythmbox won't update the database automatically...
<pochu> so it still has the old metadata
<pochu> (I've looked at it with decibel-audio-player too and it's fine there)
<pochu> hmm, moving out .gnome2/rhythmbox and .gconf/rhythmbox and reloading the library didn't change anything...
<crevette> thanks pochu
<crevette> can I put several pixmap in one uue file ?
 * pochu checks with easytag
<crevette> I'm not used to that kind of file
<pochu> neither am I :)
<pochu> easytag shows the files have changed, so I must be doing something wrong with rhythmbox...
<pochu> slomo_: anyway banshee/taglib-sharp changed 14 files in a row, so I'm more comfortable now ;)
<dennda> How stable is this new tool to configure several screens?
<dennda> I just tried it and it failed
<pochu> gnome-display-properties?
<pochu> dennda: did you file a bug report btw?
<dennda> pochu: not yet. I am here with some of my fellow students doing some work. We are still busy. Just wanted to know how well the tool works on an intel X3100 because I was unable to adjust the external screen properly. Just out of interest
<dennda> pochu: I will examine that later
<dennda> (How well it is supposed to work, that is)
<pochu> just changed the orientation here and it worked fine
<pochu> X3100 too
<dennda> pochu: with an external screen?
<pochu> nope, an vga monitor
<pochu> (this is not a laptop)
<dennda> With gutsy I have a somewhat strange behaviour: My laptops screen size gets adjusted to the size of the external one. The external one fits just fine but the laptops display is just cut off
<dennda> I havn't had enough time to check how it behaves with hardy, though
<dennda> I hope it has become better. That's something really important
<crevette> does pbuilder produces a build log ?
<pochu> crevette: not by default. there's an option though
<crevette> okay
<crevette> thanks
<pochu> pbuilder build --logfile /some/path *.dsc
<dennda> pochu: I assume you don't have any additional screen standing around?
<crevette> okay, you're great
<crevette> thanks
<pochu> dennda: I don't. perhaps the folks at #ubuntu-x know about any issues with it
<pochu> asac: you said in jwendell's bug report you have uploaded liferea -0ubuntu4... did you meant -0ubuntu3? I haven't seen ubuntu4 in hardy-changes yet :)
<asac> yes u3
<asac> typo
<asac> pochu: ^^
<pochu> ok, thanks
<pochu> slomo_: http://pastebin.com/m1be2eaa6, fine with you? (specially the part where I mention you)
<slomo_> pochu: sounds good
<slomo_> and segv on quit is a known mono or gtk# bug
<pochu> ok, sending
<slomo_> good work :)
<pochu> now I'll expect you to add some convincing comments to it ;)
 * crevette can't have find and uuencode working together
<pochu> and sorry for forgetting about it :(
<pochu> slomo_: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/taglib-sharp/+bug/209874
<walters> seb128: what are you guys doing about this issue?  http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=482354
<crevette> is a set of icons can be provided in a tar.gz instead as a uue set of files ?
<seb128> walters: nothing yet
<seb128> walters: too many things to do, and I don't use firefox so I'm not annoyed by it, dunno if you got lot of demands for a change
<walters> seb128: ok, keep me updated please on what you decide; I've been trying for months to fix this aspect of the linux desktop, and I'd really like to see it happen
<seb128> asac: ^ do you know about that?
<seb128> crevette: no, you can't diff a binary format and tar.gz is one
<crevette> okay :/
<pochu> walters: there's https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox-3.0/+bug/175904 (which links to the metacity bug), which is milestoned for Hardy. asac is aware of it but I don't know what he has decided to do
<walters> pochu: thanks, i've subscribed
<asac> seb128: its a issue metacity vs. compiz
<seb128> asac: it's not
<asac> compiz doesn't raise as aggressively
<asac> metacity does
<seb128> it's something which is not clear documented by the spec
<seb128> and that the wm implement as they want
<seb128> technically that's not a bug
<asac> yes ... thats why i say metacity vs. compiz
<asac> :)
<asac> both compete to set a standard
<seb128> well, it's not a bug, nothing say they have to be consistent
<asac> but given that metacity had the compiz behaviour before, i'd say that metacity breached a de facto standar
<walters> it's almost like having multiple free implementations of the same thing is a bad idea...
<asac> where did i say its differnt
<asac> differnt
<asac> ouch
<pochu> I think the previous behaviour (the window bar in the window list highlighted) was good, but this one is highly annoying
<asac> i just say: once the behaviour changes in a way that without adding tweaks to the app people feel annoyed its a problem
<asac> and maybe an indicator that it might have required multiple steps :)
<asac> but then i see how firefox could behave better.
<asac> and if it does, the metacity behaviour would be superior
<asac> i haven't tried how the metacity patch feels
<asac> maybe its even a gtk issue that it doesn't support more fine grained control on what gtk_window_present does
<asac> is present an atomic WM operation?
<seb128> I would argue that's a firefox bug
<seb128> it should add tabs if there is some firefox windows on the current workspace or viewport
<seb128> and open a new one if there is none there
<asac> i don't think its a real bug anywhere
<asac> it just happens that everything together is now annoying :)
<asac> last time i looked there was no simple api support for this kind of logic
<asac> in gtk/gdk
<asac> which indicates that there is definitly room for improvement for other parts of the stack too
<asac> but i agree that in the end firefox should handle it
<asac> preferably through a simple api
<seb128> right, gtk doesn't allow to do that easily
<pochu> seb128: well, if I have "open links in a new tab", I'd expect firefox to do that even if I'm on a different workspace
<asac> which is due to the fact that gtk didn't know what metacity would do at some point imo
<pochu> so I don't think opening windows if there's no window in the current workspace is good behaviour
<seb128> pochu: well, in this case firefox should not call the present function then and just silently add the tab
<pochu> right
<asac> seb128: but still it hsould raise on other desktop
<seb128> why?
<asac> and blink in window taskbar
<seb128> if you decide to add tabs you likely know what you are doing and where the thing is
<asac> or isn't it possible in gnome to show all windows in the window taskbar?
<seb128> that's possible
<asac> i think somewhere i had a blinking window task and could click on that to zoom to that desktop
<seb128> right click on the task list corner and properties, you have an option there
<asac> i would like that behaviour if open in new tab is used
<asac> not sure if that can be done without present
<asac> you see what i mean by this "present on other desktop" use-case?
<seb128> yes
<asac> yeah.
<seb128> what pidgin does when you receive an im message
<asac> hard to chew on all this
<seb128> or xchat
<seb128> they blink
<seb128> but you don't need to present the dialog for that
<seb128> present raise it to the foreground too
<seb128> which is different of asking attention
<seb128> the present api is give me this on screen now so I can use it
<asac> anyway ... my short term solution is to turn of "open new links in tab" .. and use "open new links in new window" instead
<asac> which is probably more comprehensible for the normal ubuntu user anyway
<Nafallo> ehrm
<Nafallo> no
<Nafallo> I don't want to hold firefox please.
<seb128> Nafallo: those are options, why would you hold firefox rather than changing the settingÂµ?
<asac> hold firefox? what does that mean?
<Nafallo> seb128: ah. I read "turn of" in a totally different way :-)
<seb128> asac: he means not upgrade to not get the behaviour you describe
<Nafallo> I thought it was hide the option or so :-P
 * Nafallo totally relies on tabs at work :-)
<asac> ok i added ubufox and milestoned it for that setting change
<asac> maybe we get the a better solution for the .1 release
<Nafallo> as long as I have the choice to switch... ;-)
<asac> Nafallo: you have :)
<asac> unless you add a lockPref on your own :)
<Nafallo> hhee
<Nafallo> s/he/eh/
<asac> you can lock prefs ... e.g. if an admin doesn't want students or kiosk systems to be changed pref-wise
<fta> asac, one more reason for me to not use ubufox. browser.tabs.loadDivertedInBackground is not perfect but it's best workaround we have if the metacity patch is rejected.
<fta> tabmix+ or another tab extension should do to restore the full expected behavior
<seb128> the patch is not rejected
<seb128> I don't really care about using it or not but I would prefer if it was special casing firefox in the behaviour change
<fta> well, above, you didn't seem to want it
<seb128> I don't have a strong opinion
<seb128> but I think firefox is buggy in what it tries to do
#ubuntu-desktop 2008-04-01
<pochu> asac: does https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/@@/bug-status-expand loads for you from firefox3? It doesn't here, though works with ephy
<pochu> asac: clearing the cache fixed it
<manchicken_> So it looks like the gvfs issue has mostly been resolved.  Was it fixed, scrapped, or worked-around somehow?
<Amaranth> fixed, mostly
<Amaranth> just needed a bit of polish, the framework and features were there
<Amaranth> well, a lot of polish, people worked their ass off on it
<manchicken_> It certainly appears that way.
<manchicken_> I'm impressed.
<manchicken_> Hardy is looking rather nice right now.
<manchicken_> I'm upgrading my laptop right now.
<Amaranth> it went from "we're boned" to "wow this stuff works" in about a month
<manchicken_> The only annoyance is the flash and ia32 issues.
<manchicken_> Yeah, I remember last we spoke you seemed rather jaded.
<manchicken_> I usually switch to the latest version shortly before it releases to help with testing.
<manchicken_> System76 hates it though, because I'll actually bother poor Tom Aaron over there with my questions.
<manchicken_> He's a champ though.
<Amaranth> haha
<manchicken_> I've never had such good support as what I get with System76.
<manchicken_> I wish they had a small business support contract.  I'd sign it with them in a heartbeat.  Tom Aaron has personally pulled my rear out of the blaze several times.
<manchicken_> If only all folks provided after-sale support as well.
<manchicken_> Amaranth: Do you use gedit for hacking?
<Amaranth> yep
<Amaranth> gedit and vim
<manchicken_> Do you know if they have an subversion plugins?
<Amaranth> no idea, i don't use it like that
<manchicken_> Emacs has excellent subversion support... I kinda miss that in gedit.
<manchicken_> And do you know if gedit has repeatable macros?
<Amaranth> I don't do anything like that either
<manchicken_> I like the vfs capabilities--helps keep me using the same editor regardless of which client I'm working on--but some functionality like that is just sorely missed.
<dholbach> good morning
<mvo> hey seb128, MacSlow
<seb128> hello mvo
<mvo> seb128: I didn't manage the sponsoring last night, I will do it this morning
<MacSlow> morning mvo, seb128
<seb128> mvo: that's alright, no hurry
<seb128> mvo: while you are at it, you might want to apply the change on bug #175904
<seb128> pitti seems to be on the opinion that using tabs is nicer too
<seb128> I think firefox is broken but I'm not using it so I don't really care
<seb128> you guys decide whatever you want for it ;-)
<slomo> seb128: do you know what happened to the glib 2.16.2 tarball? :)
<seb128> slomo: what do you mean?
<seb128> it's on download.gnome.org
<slomo> seb128: i only get 404 :) can you download it?
<seb128> oh, no, it's not
<seb128> no, no idea
<slomo> ok :)
<huats> morning everyone
<huats> o/ crevette
<crevette> salut
<huats> seb128: hello :)
<seb128> lut crevette huats
<seb128> mvo: read what I wrote before?
<slomo> seb128: ok, so what exactly was needed for getting new swfdec stuff into hardy? :)
<seb128> slomo: somebody doing the work, I'm overworked
<slomo> seb128: just testing if it works, adjust for xulrunner1.9 and upload/request syncs?
<seb128> which means feature freeze exception bugs with rather, doing the update and the transition if there is a need to rebuild other things due to the versionning change
<seb128> right
<slomo> FFe shouldn't be needed because swfdec-gnome is part of gnome and the other two parts, swfdec0.6/swfdec-mozilla, are needed
<slomo> seb128: also, no rdeps except swfdec-{gnome,mozilla}
<seb128> slomo: not sure, swfdec-gnome is part of GNOME but swfdec is not
<seb128> if next gedit was depending on xorg current git we would not update xorg ;-)
<slomo> right, that argument is not good :)
<slomo> let's ask pitti :)
<seb128> just ask to slangasek if that's ok
<seb128> he's around
<slomo> ok
<seb128> slomo: ah right, that's universe
<seb128> just upload then
<seb128> motu rules are too complicated nowadays ;-)
<seb128> ah, there is a sponsoring request as dholbach pointed on the other channel
<slomo> yes
<slomo> seb128: so, you sync swfdec0.6 and swfdec-gnome, i'll sponsor swfdec-mozilla... sounds good? :)
<seb128> alright, let's do that ;-)
<slomo> seb128: i guess swfdec-gnome wants the Xb-Npp-Applications/Xb-Npp-MimeType stuff too? how does this work? ;)
<seb128> ask asac
<slomo> asac: ^---
<asac> slomo: what do you want to know? a good start would be to copy the lines from gnash and modify the -Name field
<asac> slomo: swfdec-gnome? isn't the plugin package called swfdec-mozilla?
<seb128> lool: btw about the glib upload, did you commit your changes to debian?
<seb128> lool: might be rather a desktop chan thing ;-)
<seb128> lool: because the changelog entry items are not in the debian upload
<lool> seb128: http://paste.debian.net/52287 this is Debian SVN
<lool> This is Ubuntu hardy http://paste.debian.net/52288
<lool> Hmm weird choice of version in hardy from me indeed; should have been -3~hardy1
<seb128> lool: right, what confused me is that debian got a -2 which has none of those ubuntu changes
<seb128> lool: so I though you didn't commit your local -2
<lool> seb128: I should have used -3~hardy1; or -2+hardy1
<lool> Everything is committed AFAICS
<seb128> right, makes sense now
<seb128> I was just wondering why the official -2 had none of your -2 snapshot changes
<seb128> anyway no big deal ;-)
<seb128> pitti: stop reassigning random apport bugs to gtk only because they crash in a gtk function ;-)
<seb128> or glib2.0 rather
<coNP[uni]> good morning
<slomo> asac: so the Npp stuff is for mozilla only?
<seb128> hey coNP[uni]
<coNP[uni]> hey seb128
<asac> slomo: for gecko plugins, right.
<slomo> ok, then swfdec-gnome doesn't need it :)
<slomo> thanks
<asac> slomo: will you take care that its upgraded?
<asac> i think there is a sponsoring request for swfdec
<slomo> asac: yes, seb will sync swfdec0.6 and swfdec-gnome
<slomo> asac: and i'll care for sponsoring swfdec-mozill
<slomo> right
<asac> ok great ... please remember to include those headers in the mozilla part.
<slomo> asac: what do you mean?
<asac> Xb-Npp :)
<slomo> ah
<slomo> sure
<slomo> :)
<slomo> seb128: so, please sync swfdec0.6 (and accept things from NEW) and swfdec-gnome :)
<seb128> slomo: ok
<lool> Hmm poppler 0.8
<seb128> lool: I'm looking at it, but it has quite some changes
<seb128> fc already has it though
<lool> We didn't track 0.7.x series
<seb128> no we didn't
<slomo> what's new in 0.8?
<lapo> hi
<slomo> except the annotations support... which won't be useful without evince supporting it
<lapo> seb128: http://people.freedesktop.org/~lapo/misc%20stuff/application-x-cd-image.tar.bz2
<seb128> lapo: ah, thanks!
<lapo> np
<lool> slomo: It seems to me stability fixes have been pushed to 0.8 and might not be pushed to 0.6 as often
<seb128> sonames changed
<lool> Even the glib one?
<seb128> yes
<slomo> api changes too?
<lool> The glib lib was supposed to be quite stable
<seb128> " * Change glib public api to have a correct naming"
<slomo> yay
<slomo> asac, seb128: swfdec-mozilla uploaded, will go to dep-wait of course ;)
 * asac hugs slomo
<asac> frequently requested and constantly out of love :)
<asac> you definitly made some people happy
<slomo> asac: do we have gnash by default btw? is gnash better in your oppinion? :)
<asac> slomo: no ... we don't have a default because we lack a way to educate users about existing alternatives
<asac> i have no strong opinion about gnash vs. swfdec. swfdec 0.6 was definitly ahead of our gutsy gnash, but i would say that hardy gnash is again ahead
<asac> but hard to measure
<seb128> the swfdec upstream will be at uds btw
<asac> company?
<seb128> yes
<asac> good
<asac> i know him from university ;) ... but long time ago
<asac> and met him in seville
<asac> he definitly does great work given that he mostly develops everything on his own
<seb128> indeed
<pitti> slomo: ask me what?
<pitti> seb128: assign bugs> ok; where should I assign it to instead?
<pitti> seb128: pygtk?
<slomo> pitti: already solved :)
<pitti> great
<seb128> pitti: well, those might as well be apport bugs, we don't have enough informations to know
<seb128> pitti: I've asked for valgrind logs, one seems to a librsvg issue
<seb128> pitti: could you have a look on the trivial patch on http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=523884 and tell me if you think it's correct?
<ubotu> Gnome bug 523884 in programs ""Eject" should eject the CD-ROM drive tray" [Normal,New]
<seb128> Amaranth, mvo, pitti: any idea what should be changed to fix https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/+bug/206259?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 206259 in gnome-control-center "gnome-appearance-properties won't start Compiz" [Medium,New]
<pitti> seb128: re 523884, what is the bug? "eject" option works fine in computer:/// and on desktop for me
<pitti> ah, with no media, I see
<pitti> seb128: IMHO the patch looks correct for what you intend to do; I'm not 100% sure whether gnome-mount is meant to behave that way
<pitti> but *shrug*, -e without a media doesn't have any other sensible behaviour, so why not
<pitti> seb128: IMHO, 260259 is a dup of bug 207957
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 207957 in jockey "Driver manager tries to install unneeded FGLRX driver for Compiz" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/207957
<pitti> shall I mark it as such?
<pitti> i. e. I need to teach jockey to not install fglrx with --check-composite if ati is used
<pitti> there is a trivial, but conceptually wrong solution (mark fglrx as not being composite-capable)
<pitti> or, if I find the time, implement a concept and list of 'current' driver (more work, maybe not hardy)
<pitti> but in all cases I'll fix it RSN
<seb128> pitti: yes please mark it dup if that's the same issue
 * seb128 hugs pitti
<seb128> pitti: I'll upload the gnome-mount change, it should not break anything anyway
<pitti> done
 * pitti hugs seb128, merci
<slomo> seb128: swfdec0.6 on binary NEW everywhere except hppa which seems to have a filled build queue ;)
<BUGabundo> hi there
<BUGabundo> can I have some attention to wish bug  #210133
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 210133 in nautilus "[Intrepid Ibex][wishbug] separate icon view zoom for desktop and nautilus" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/210133
<BUGabundo> ??
<BUGabundo> thanks
<seb128> BUGabundo: that's not trivial to fix, require UI changes and there is thousand bugs open, I don't think this one will be worked any time soon
<seb128> BUGabundo: and that's likely a duplicate too
<BUGabundo> didn't kwon
<BUGabundo> filed it yesterday via email
<BUGabundo> so no way to check for dupes
<BUGabundo> still, seb128, its just a wishbug
<BUGabundo> for hardy+1 or the near future
<seb128> you should really check for duplicates before filling bugs
<seb128> it takes you a few minutes to do that
<seb128> but it takes us days to do that for the hundred of duplicates sent
<BUGabundo> not when you are offline
<seb128> and those are hours not spend on fixing issues
<BUGabundo> and just using email to post to mallone
<seb128> I would argue that if you are offline you should not send bugs
<BUGabundo> I'll have a look at it now
<BUGabundo> and mark it as dup, if I find the original
<seb128> thanks
<BUGabundo> I shouldn't fill bugs while offline??
<seb128> about the feature I doubt it'll be implemented any time soon
<BUGabundo> come on... you must be kiding with me
<seb128> you should file bugs without checking for duplicates no
<BUGabundo> it must be aprils fool day
<seb128> s/should/shouldn't
<BUGabundo> that's a question for kiko
<seb128> what has kiko to do with that?
<BUGabundo> I asked for a way to get a reply from malone against dups
<seb128> I'm just saying that we spend way too much time triaging duplicates for people who don't bother doing so
<BUGabundo> LP DEV teams says it thoesnt exist
<BUGabundo> so I have to wait for it
<seb128> it's not that hard to look if there is a bug already open matching the issue you are having
<BUGabundo> I know that devs and bug-triage teams spent lots of time with this
<seb128> as said it takes you a few minutes
<seb128> and it takes hours to do that for hundred of people who don't care
<BUGabundo> that Why when I report a bug via LP I always search for dups
<BUGabundo> but I also do lots of work offline
<seb128> well, obviously you didn't there
<BUGabundo> and sent emails from there
<seb128> well you can't send mails offline
<BUGabundo> When I go online, If I have the time I search for dups for those
<BUGabundo> yes you can... they just are kept on the postfix queue
<BUGabundo> brb
<BUGabundo> need to setup a printer
<seb128> BUGabundo: also don't specify ubuntu versions nor tag or settings in the title
<seb128> BUGabundo: the bug has settings and a description for a reason
<BUGabundo> back
<BUGabundo> sorry for that
<BUGabundo> didn't know of a better way
<BUGabundo> can't find a dup for it
<BUGabundo> sorry for the extra work
<BUGabundo> as far as I can search
<BUGabundo> this is the single one with the keywords icon zoom
<seb128> the bug might have been closed as wontfix
<seb128> I've read several times about the topic during the years
<seb128> anyway lunch now
<BUGabundo> yep, me too,
<slomo> seb128: you want to sync gst-plugins-bad0.10 0.10.6-7 later :) fixes potentional license issues caused by linking openssl via a gstreamer plugin
<BUGabundo> good lunch seb128
<BUGabundo> seb128: still with advance search, and every option selected I can't find a similar bug. will see this after lunch
<seb128> slomo: ok
<seb128> BUGabundo: ok, don't spend too much effort on it, that's an upstream wishlist anyway
<BUGabundo> yep
<pochu> slomo: woops, there's no libneon28-dev in hardy
<slomo> pochu: hm? it build depends on libneon27-gnutls-dev
<slomo> from neon 27 to 28 the soname didn't change
<slomo> the patch only makes configure happy with neon >= 0.27.99
<pochu> ah, right
<pochu> sorry :)
<pochu> slomo: that's one of the consequences of not having a pkg-gstreamer-commits mailing list :p
<pochu> [ can I have one? ]
<slomo> i'm lazy
<slomo> how can i create one? :)
<pochu> hmm, no idea TBH, I guess asking on #alioth on OFTC :)
<pochu> lool: ^
<slomo> i know how to create a list but that doesn't get us the commits there ;)
<fernando> moin all
<BUGabundo> hi fernando
<lool> slomo, pochu: sure, that's very useful in my experience, we should have one
<kwwii> seb128: did the screensaver stuff make it into a package yet?
<seb128> kwwii: doh, I forgot about that, no
<seb128> kwwii: btw there is some issues with your icon theme update
<seb128> kwwii: try to unmount an usb key and look to the computer location
<kwwii> seb128: ouch, what is that?
<seb128> itt's using a tiny icon
<kwwii> hrm, that is freaky
<seb128> could be that this icon has no scalable nor 48x48 versions?
<kwwii> seb128: here is works witha usb key but is small with a sd card
<kwwii> the 48x48 should be there, let me check this out again
<kwwii> seb128: are you sure it was with a usb key or was it a flash card of some type?
<lool> Heh did you people see epiphany drops support for gecko?
<lool> :)
<seb128> bah, april 1 sucks
<lool> Nah
<lool> It's fun, let's release!
<kwwii> seb128: do you have a bug number for that? I can only reproduce the flash card stuff on my system
<seb128> kwwii: I'm looking for the icon used a sec
<seb128> kwwii: found it
<seb128> kwwii: /usr/share/icons/Human/16x16/devices/drive-removable-media-usb.png
<seb128> kwwii: there is a /usr/share/icons/Human/48x48/devices/drive-removable-media-usb, not the naming issue
<seb128> kwwii: renaming the 48x48 one fixes the issue
<kwwii> lol
<seb128> kwwii: typos in the .links
<kwwii> well, I also found that the flash link is missing at the larger sizes
<kwwii> seb128: I will fix both of those
<kwwii> thanks
<seb128> you are welcome
<seb128> thank you for fixing those
<seb128> kwwii: the 24x24 has a similar typo too
<kwwii> seb128: about the screensaver stuff, I was looking into putting the svg and .desktop file into human-theme and then setting the gconf key in ubuntu-artwork, does that sound right?
<seb128> yes, that would be alright
<seb128> are you working with mvo on those changes?
<seb128> or that was something different?
<mvo> seb128: I will sponsors kwwii changes, but I haven't discussed screensaver stuff with him (no idea about this)
<seb128> mvo: that's basically install the .desktop and the svg
 * mvo nods
<asac> seb128: do we still use gnomevfs to figure applications by mime-type somewhere?
<seb128> mvo: and adding the gconf-defaults
 * asac thinks its now gio
<asac> ?
<seb128> asac: yes, lot of things have not been ported to gio and gvfs yet
<asac> seb128: is there a command line tool i can use to query by mime-type?
<asac> to test?
<kwwii> seb128: I was working with mvo on the ubuntulooks stuff but I might as well add the screensaver while I am touching those packages
<asac> kwwii: ah, before i forget. someone pointed out that in /usr/share/doc/tangerine-icon-theme/copyright it reads "The Human Icon Theme is licensed under the ..." :)
<seb128> kwwii: yes, I've read your mail, the gconf-default change seems to be already and installing the svg and desktop is only a matter of copying those in the source and changing the .install, it's trivial enough to do for mvo I think ;-)
<kwwii> seb128: so I do not need to add the gconf setting in ubuntu-artwork?
<seb128> doh, can't type today
<seb128> s/already/alright
<seb128> you need it, just add the line to the human-theme one
<kwwii> lol
<kwwii> right
 * Hobbsee is liking this whole "only one lot of wait" thing for her computer booting, now
<kwwii> seb128: updated human-icon-theme source package here:
<kwwii> http://sinecera.de/human-icon-theme_0.27.dsc
<kwwii> http://sinecera.de/human-icon-theme_0.27_source.build
<kwwii> http://sinecera.de/human-icon-theme_0.27_source.changes
<kwwii> http://sinecera.de/human-icon-theme_0.27.tar.gz
<Keybuk> ooh @ epiphany announcement
<pitti> seb128: so which package should I assign bug 209488 to? the stack trace just has libgtkish things, and the topmost function calls xembed_set_info() with a NULL argument
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 209488 in jockey "jockey-gtk crashed with SIGSEGV in XChangeProperty()" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/209488
<seb128> Keybuk: april 1 joke ;-)
<Keybuk> seb128: really? that's a shame
<Keybuk> since it was a good announcement
<seb128> yes
<seb128> pitti: bah, I hate those bugs, they are useless, reassign this one to gtk I guess
<seb128> pitti: those are things which happen once to one guy and where the stacktrace is of no real use
<seb128> I'm wondering if we should close those :-p
<pitti> seb128: what I usually do is to reassing them to the correct package, set it to needsinfo, ask whether it's reproducible, and just let them time out :)
<seb128> right, I tend to do that
<seb128> or ask for a valgrind log
<pitti> seb128: well, this time the stack trace does look useful, the NULL pointer is quite obfious
<pitti> obvious
<seb128> right
<pitti> I'll forward it upstream, let's see what happens
<seb128> thanks
<Keybuk> seb128: why *aren't* they planning to target webkit fully with epiphany?
<seb128> well, there is some tractions in this direction, but that doesn't mean they want to drop xulrunner support now
<seb128> the "main packages can't have universe build-deps to build universe binary" thing really sucks
<bhale> yeah I used to run into a lot of trouble with that
<bhale> seb128: is daniel still alive?
<seb128> bhale: dholbach you mean? yes, he was there some hours ago
<seb128> Keybuk: in fact reading the mail now it might not be an april 1 joke ;-) I though from the comments on the irc channel
<Keybuk> the epi guys *have* been saying they were planning some changes for a while
<Keybuk> and that there would be an announcement in due course
<seb128> indeed
<Keybuk> seb128: uws claims it's not a joke
<Keybuk> (if you didn't see that)
<seb128> kwwii: the human-icon-theme tarball on your website seems to be corrupted
<seb128> Keybuk: right
<Keybuk> do you know what I want
<Keybuk> I want a program that I can run on all my machines
<Keybuk> and share URLs
<Keybuk> so on here, I can highlight one, and it's announced via Avahi
<Keybuk> then I can pick it up on another
<Keybuk> wouldn't that be great?
<seb128> you can do that using pidgin and the bonjour account thing
<tedg> mDNS clipboard?
<kwwii> seb128: hrm, no idea why...I will make another one and post it in a bit
<kwwii> seb128: I just installed the deb and it does fix the problem
<kwwii> seb128: gotta pick up my son from basketball practice first though
<kwwii> tedg: teh screensaver stuff is done, btw
<seb128> kwwii: the tar.gz is broken, didn't try the deb
<seb128> it doesn't untar
<kwwii> seb128: ok, I will take care of it when I get back, sorry for the trouble
<seb128> that's alright
<seb128> jsut upload it again when you can
<tedg> kwwii: Cool, thanks.
<seb128> tedg: any news about moving the wnck tooltip to the context menu? that becomes urgent
<seb128> we need some testing there
<seb128> and gnome-panel is crash land for users at the moment because the tooltip code is borked
<tedg> seb128: No news per se, I'm still playing with the keybindings through libbonoboui -- seems it was designed for dynamic keybindings :(
<tedg> seb128: It's sad how much a PITA this stupid patch has turned into.
<seb128> Keybuk: is dropping this patch an option?
<Keybuk> seb128: everything is an option
<seb128> Keybuk: you got the question ;-)
<Keybuk> seb128: what do you think we should do?
<seb128> well, I'm not managing the ressources in this team
<seb128> I'm too busy to fix the thing
<seb128> MacSlow seems to have other things to do
<seb128> and ted is working on moving that to a context menu but that seems to be hard to do
<Keybuk> no, but since you're on the front lines - your opinion of things is very important to me
<seb128> we are past freezes, etc
<Keybuk> it sounds like the patch is causing bugs?
<seb128> I would just drop the buggy thing and fix it next cycle
<Keybuk> that does not sound unreasonable to me
<seb128> yes
<seb128> sec
<pochu> bug 207693 ?
<seb128> bug #207693
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 207693 in libwnck "gnome-panel crashed with SIGSEGV" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/207693
<tedg> Keybuk: I agree with seb128, I've already spent roughly 3 days on the patch, and I'm not sure that there isn't another 3 in it.  I don't think it's worth that much time.
<Keybuk> it's always unfortunate to do, but as long as we discuss it in Prague and figure out what a better approach would be, we will not have wasted anything
<Keybuk> since learning problems is a great use of time
<seb128> Keybuk: that's one of the top crashers in hardy
<seb128> Keybuk: right, that would work for me
<Keybuk> ok, then you have my blessing :-)
<seb128> good, thanks
<tedg> Okay, I'll push the libbonoboui and libwnck patches I already have upstream, so then it should be easier (and more reasonable) for intrepid.
<slomo> pochu: the midi bug is wrong error reporting in the midi plugin, would be nice if you could file an upstream bug for this so i don't forget to look into it
<pochu> slomo: right, do you need any further info or just "it's b0rked" ? :)
<slomo> pochu: well, how one can reproduce, the symptoms and that i believe it's caused by wrong error reporting ;)
<pochu> alright
<crevette> asac: around ?
<pochu> slomo: btw, can you reproduce midi plugins? they are reproduced by totem here, but I hear no sound...
<slomo> pochu: you mean if i can listen to midi files? yes
<slomo> do you have freepats installed?
<pochu> slomo: woops, I don't
<pochu> that was because of the config, right?
<pochu> wow, freepats is 29MB
<slomo> pochu: wildmidi recommends freepats... so: install recommends :P
<kwwii> seb128: I just re-uploaded the icon theme stuff
<pochu> slomo: do I CC you in the bug report?
<slomo> pochu: please
<pochu> slomo: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=525613
<pochu> slomo: hmm, plugins-bad depends on libwildmidi0, which recommends freepats...
<slomo> yes
<pochu> so I wonder why I didn't have freepats installed, since aptitude installs recommends by default
<slomo> no idea :)
<seb128> kwwii: ok
<asac> crevette: in a few minutes, yes.
<crevette> asac: no problemo
<gicmo> la la la
<crevette> asac: I did the patch to have nm-applet with GNOME icons set
<andreasn> crevette: is that ubuntu specific or gnome upstream?
<tedg> Where is libbonoboui's bug tracker?
<crevette> andreasn: ubuntu
<andreasn> what icons does that affect?
<tedg> NM, found it.
<crevette> connection animation
<crevette> signal
<asac> why can't we make them themable?
<andreasn> ah, so the picking up of wired network icon and encryption and stuff from the theme is correct upstream behavior?
<andreasn> we was discussing it yesterday and there was some confusion what was upstream specific and what was ubuntu specific
<crevette> perhaps I didn't get the question
<andreasn> I should try to get hardy running on a separate disk
<crevette> I just took the icons jimmac sent me 6 months ago, and I put them in the ubuntu package to remplace those shipped
<andreasn> crevette: lobby to get those upstream!
<andreasn> there is a bug open about it
<andreasn> but dan is a bit resistant
<crevette> andreasn: I've open it :)
<crevette> my mindset is never to lobby
<andreasn> ah, of course
<crevette> not enough time to praise someone
<crevette> I did sent mails and tried to explain (perhaps not clearly enough)
<andreasn> I didn't get the bugzilla name - irc name connection
<crevette> :)
<andreasn> oh, that's what I meant by lobby basically
<crevette> Baptiste Mille-Mathias
<crevette> :)
<andreasn> lobby = comment on the bug
<andreasn> and you did that already
<crevette> yep
<andreasn> I totally owe you a beer for that
<crevette> I'm rather alcohol free person, but I'm okay for a coke
<crevette> :)
<crevette> I'm sure monreal is the guy for that kind of job
<crevette> :)
<crevette> I've seen him on irc arguying to have beautiful icons
<crevette> :)
<falken_> has anyone else set up their wifi on a laptop?
<crevette> andreasn: something cool would be the strengh signal color is taken from GTK colors :)
<andreasn> crevette: perhaps I can buy you dinner
<crevette> andreasn: :)
<crevette> not until the icons are commited
<crevette> :)
<andreasn> yeah, yeah... :)
<crevette> andreasn: do you think I can cc jimmac on this bug
<andreasn> yes
<andreasn> isn't he cc:ed already?
<crevette> as he was the artist who did the icons
<crevette> no
<crevette> jimmac [@] novell ?
<andreasn> let me check
<crevette> yeah
<crevette> it is that
<andreasn> jimmac at ximian dot com ?
<crevette> okay
<andreasn> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/describeuser.cgi?login=jimmac%40ximian.com
<seb128> asac: around?
<asac> yeah
<crevette> asac: ah you're back
<asac> kwwii: the Human icon theme lacks a refresh icon in 48x48 size (dialog)
<asac> midbrowser looks funny that way :)
<asac> crevette: seb128: what can i do?
<asac> kwwii: do you want a bug about that?
<seb128> asac: I got epiphany hanging after opening the first instance after booting, that was a bugzilla url and I closed it before the page content was loaded
<seb128> asac: not sure if that's useful for the hang bug context
<asac> seb128: i saw some memory issues in the package i couldn't see in the upstream package. can you try to a pristine epiphany build?
<asac> i think it should just build out of the box.
<seb128> upstream svn or tarball?
<asac> you will see a few regressions in the dialog box i guess.
<crevette> asac: I did the packaging of nm-applet to have GNOME icons
<asac> seb128: use svn. no idea how up to date the tarballs are
<seb128> ok
<asac> seb128: build with --with-engine=mozilla --with-gecko=libxul-embedding
<seb128> asac: ok, will try
<asac> crevette: ah right. did you answer my question about the themability?
<crevette> asac: how can I provide it to you ?
 * asac scrolling back
<crevette> asac: no
<crevette> asac: I don't know
<crevette> the icons are put under hicolor, so any themes providing the icons should supersed them
<crevette> from what I understand
<asac> easiest is just pushing a bzr branch and requesting a merge ;)
<crevette> hu ...
<crevette> how should I do that
<asac> otherwise a reasonable patch
<crevette> a debdiff ?
<asac> i think bzr would be much easier if its new binary files :)
<crevette> asac: I uuencoede them
<crevette> that's why it took so long
<crevette> :)
<crevette> I never touch uuencode before
<crevette> touched
<asac> crevette: do you have multiple .uu files in debian/ dir? or just one?
<crevette> multiple
<crevette> I didn't figure out out do with only one
<asac> in a subdir of debian/ ?
<crevette> debian.
<crevette> yep
<asac> well... you can give me a tarball with the .uu files only and give me a debdiff for the rest
<asac> at best as a bug
<asac> well at best as a bzr branch :)
<crevette> asac: http://bmm80.free.fr/Debian/nm-applet/nm-applet.debdiff
<asac> crevette: i'd really appreciate if you'd encapsulate those icons in a subdir of debian/ .. at least
<asac> crevette: eh sorry. you already do that
<crevette> :)
<asac> i think its ok that way.
<crevette> asac: if something is not okay don't hesitate
<asac> ill look
<asac> can you make a bug out of that?
<crevette> yep, of course
<asac> cool
<kwwii> asac: where is a 48x48 refresh icon used?
<kwwii> unfortunately we do not have an svg of that icon so I will have to redraw all of them
<asac> kwwii: damn ;)
<asac> there is no scalable one either, right
<asac> kwwii: its used in midbrowser
<asac> not the most important usecase, but since i develop in under plain hardy I was curious why the icon was so small :)
<kwwii> hrm, I guess making a bug for it would be the best for now
<asac> kwwii: well, if you are aware of and there is nothing you can do, there is no point imo
<asac> i guess in case you really redo it, we will get it automatically
<kwwii> good point
<asac> maybe i can find another theme that has a scalable refresh ;)
<kwwii> the gnome theme should have it
<asac> is that the ugly one?
<asac> :)
<asac> yau ... gnome-appearence dialog crashes
<asac> all themes are somehow greyed out with a question mark, but i can change them
<crevette> asac: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager-applet/+bug/210449
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 210449 in network-manager-applet "GNOME icons for nm-applet" [Undecided,New]
<vuntz> tedg: ping?
<tedg> vuntz: Pong.
<vuntz> tedg: tell me more about you want to do with the pager
<tedg> Well, what I was doing (got canceled this morning) was the right click menu for the WM actions.
<tedg> So I wanted to make them sensitive to where you were in the pager.
<tedg> So to do that I needed to determine "if left" or "if right" were available.
<vuntz> ok, I see
<vuntz> hrm, the thing is that all the high-level widgets in libwnck are more or less independent of all the low-level wnck stuff
<vuntz> and I think it's a good thing
<tedg> I don't disagree, but the problem comes when trying to connect all of the bonobo stuff on down.  I don't think you want a libbonoboui dependency for libwnck.
<kwwii> asac: actually, for mid you will see these problems again and again with the human theme because we only have a handfull of svg's - all the more reason to make a new theme which is totally svg ;-)
<vuntz> tedg: yep, but the three function calls seem the best trade-off to me. If you really need to do it often, it's easy to write an helper function.
<vuntz> even if it's to get something that lives in the internal pager structure
<tedg> kwwii: I thought there were AI files for them, were you unable to get those?
<vuntz> I guess I'll wait for feedback from elijah or hp
<seb128_> kwwii: human-icon-theme update uploaded
<tedg> vuntz: Okay, well it came down to a few functions really.
<kwwii> tedg: nope, we did not get the AI files afaik
<kwwii> seb128_: great, thanks :-)
<tedg> vuntz: There was wm_can_go(dir), wm_do_go(dir), and then probably a wm_get_keybinding(dir)
<tedg> vuntz: And, while I'm making requests... I think it would make sense for an "advanced functionality" type function.  For things like scale and expo that metacity and others are like to implement in the future.
<tedg> vuntz: But, in reality, I have most of the code already, it's just in a gnome-panel patch.  I could move it.
<seb128> untz untz untz!
<vuntz> tedg: not quite sure how you'd integrate "scale" and "expo" in libwnck
<vuntz> unless it's standardized, in which case it'd be easy
<seb128> hey vuntz ;-)
<crevette> VUNTZ !!!!!!
<crevette> VUNTZ !!!!!!
<vuntz> seb128: I'm only here to spy on you, you know this ;-)
<tedg> vuntz: I'm thinking "wm_has_capability(SHOW_ALL_WINDOWS)" or "wm_has_capability(SHOW_ALL_WORKSPACES)"
 * seb128 hugs vuntz
<seb128> vuntz: I've noticed, making summaries about ubuntu nice ideas on the novell wiki for example
<vuntz> tedg: not going to happen if things are not in the ewmh spec
<tedg> vuntz: "wm_has_capability_beyond_ewmh(...)"? :)
<tedg> vuntz: It does make sense that there should be a way to expose such functionality of the WM though.
<vuntz> tedg: if you assume SHOW_ALL_WINDOWS and SHOW_ALL_WORKSPACES work on two WM, then the right thing to do is to add them as optional features of the EWMH
<vuntz> not to have them implemented in two different ways in the two WMs
<vuntz> (or some compositor spec that would extend the ewmh)
<tedg> Do you really think I want to put my name on a spec with anything compiz related? ;)
<vuntz> heh
<crevette> ah
<crevette> the translation of bluez has been updated
<crevette> the french one was awful
<seb128> crevette: it was made by you? ;-)
<crevette> seb128: yep
<crevette> of course
<crevette> :)
<crevette> the one that made me crazy for weeks was the 1|un in the notification bubble of evo
<seb128> ah, I don't use the bubble
<seb128> I get too many mails for that
<crevette> yeah :)
#ubuntu-desktop 2008-04-02
<dholbach> good morning
<dholbach> hey mvo, njpatel, seb128
<seb128> hello dholbach
<njpatel> morning  dholbach
<mvo> hey dholbach, seb128, njpatel
<seb128> hello mvo
<seb128> mvo: how went the sponsoring yesterday? ;-)
<seb128> mvo: just teasing you ;-)
<mvo> *cough*
<mvo> *cough*
 * seb128 hugs mvo
<seb128> ut crevette
<seb128> lut
<crevette> salut seb128
<seb128> mvo: could you look to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gedit/+bug/210680 if that's a known issue?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 210680 in gedit "un able to upgrade" [Undecided,New]
<seb128> "Package udev has broken dep on libdevmapper1.02"
<seb128> upgrade issue
<seb128_> re
<seb128_> mvo: did you get the gedit bug and my question before I got disconnected?
<crevette> yes we did seb128
<seb128_> crevette: thanks
<mvo> seb128_: looking
<mvo> seb128_: comment added
<seb128_> mvo: thanks
<seb128_> mvo: the apt.log was not useful?
<seb128_> <seb128> "Package udev has broken dep on libdevmapper1.02"
<mvo> seb128_: no, that is just the resolver log
<seb128_> dunno if you got that before the disconnect
<seb128_> ok
<mvo> seb128_: that is useful, but it should be fixed since a couple of days
<mvo> seb128_: doing metacity sponsoring now
<seb128_> mvo: cool
<seb128_> mvo: did you read my comment about the firefox patch yesterday?
<mvo> seb128_: this is something that should go upstream too I think
<seb128_> the change for firefox?
<seb128_> that's being discussed but the topic is not trivial
<seb128_> the spec doesn't describe what should be done there
<mvo> seb128_: I mean the fix for bug #199402
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 199402 in metacity "gnome-appearance-properties crashed with SIGSEGV in meta_theme_get_frame_style()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/199402
<seb128_> ah
<pochu> asac: I've got bug 178558 after X crashed yesterday. I restarted X after seeing the bug to see if that would solve it but it didn't help. I'm going to reboot just in case it helps, but I doubt it as restarting X didn't help
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 178558 in xulrunner-1.9 "Firefox 3.0 makes everything annoyingly huge" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/178558
<seb128_> mvo: the patch is from the upstream maintainer so I think he'll commit to svn too if the didn't yet
<mvo> seb128_: heh :) ok, cool
<seb128_> s/the/he
<asac> pochu: please a screenshot
<pochu> sure, attaching in a minute
<asac> pochu: and your screen dpi + the gconf dpi setting
<asac> ah ok that info is there
<kwwii> pitti: did my gdm changes get uploaded? Sorry to bother but it is quite important
<pitti> kwwii: I know nothing
<pochu> asac: there they are
<kwwii> pitti: erm, on Monday I put up a source package and asked you to upload it....let me get the links again
<soren> 10:12 < kwwii> pitti: http://sinecera.de/ubuntu-gdm-themes_0.28.dsc,  http://sinecera.de/ubuntu-gdm-themes_0.28.tar.gz,  http://sinecera.de/ubuntu-gdm-themes_0.28_source.build,  http://sinecera.de/ubuntu-gdm-themes_0.28_source.changes
<soren> I was looking through logs anyway.. :)
<pitti> ah, I uploaded that, yes
<pitti> $ rmadison -s hardy ubuntu-gdm-themes
<pitti> ubuntu-gdm-themes |       0.28 |         hardy | source, all
<pitti> :)
<pitti> kwwii: I thought you literally meant 'gdm'
<kwwii> pitti: lol, you don't want me touching gdm itself :-)
<kwwii> thanks soren :-)
<soren> :)
<asac> pochu: thats just the zoom level?
<asac> not dpi related imo
<asac> did you try to rest the zoom level on that page to 0?
<asac> s/rest/reset/
<pochu> asac: ctrl+0 ?
<pochu> doesn't change it
<pochu> or ctrl-- will make it ugly
<pochu> as in some fonts too small
<pochu> e.g. the portlets
<asac> pochu: maybe a non default font setup?
<pochu> don't think so, haven't changed it
<pochu> this is strage, why does only launchpad looks weird?
<pochu> asac: I'll try moving out ~/.firefox/
<asac> pochu: well crashes might have wierd effects on preferences
<asac> yes
<asac> try that
<pochu> s/firefox/mozilla/
<pochu> asac: nothing changed
<asac> pitti: we ended up having a C application (by davidm) that does the basic transformation from po2xpi ... how can we make use of that in the langpack generator? do we need that packaged in the archive?
<pochu> e.g. liferea still looks good, and in firefox only launchpad.net looks wrong
<pochu> s/good/wrong/
<asac> pochu: why do you think its too large?
<pochu> the dpi in firefox is -1, which is the default
<pochu> asac: did you see the screenshot? ;)
<asac> yes
<asac> i am really bad at look at such things though :(
<pochu> this is clearly broken right now
<asac> pochu: looks ok to me
<asac> for me font in the main content area of bugs is considerably larger then the default font
<asac> i remember that things were hard to read, so maybe thats intended
<pochu> I haven't read any feed since the crash in Liferea because I can't have more than 2 lines in the window :p
<pochu> well yesterday before the crash everything was fine
<pochu> I could read launchpad.net, and liferea was nice
<asac> pochu: didn't you say that liferea is back to normal now?
<pochu> yes, and s/good/wrong/ too, sorry :)
<pochu> look at http://launchpadlibrarian.net/13043699/Screenshot-1.png, I have a 22" wide screen monitor and I can't even see the entire description of the bug report now
<pochu> the portlets are fine for some reason, but the description and that is big
<pochu> is *huge* :)
<pochu> they should be like the fonts at ubuntu.com in the same screenshot
<pochu> asac: may I reboot to see if it changes anything?
<asac> yes... portlets are fine
<asac> which makes me think that everything is fine
<asac> go to your gnome appearence dialog and see what fonts are configured there
<pochu> ok
<asac> maybe its also related with some theme package upgrades landed recently ... who knows
<pitti> asac: depends which part should do the XPI generation, a script that you run yourself, or LP translations
<pochu> Sans, 10
<asac> pitti: i think the idea is to ship translations in main language-support-XX
<pochu> no visual effects
<pitti> asac: if you want to run it on rookery or so, we don't need it packaged (would be nice to do so for intrepid, of course)
<asac> that means that its done in LP translations, right?
<pochu> hmm, wait, I have metacity compositor enabled
<pitti> asac: right
<asac> ok, then thats it (unless we find anything blocking)
<pochu> I'll disble it to check
<pitti> asac: well, not necessarily; we can do it outside until Rosetta learns to put xpi into the exported tarballs
<pochu> well, before the crash it was enabled too and was working fine, but it could be that it's buggy
<pochu> I don't know why it would only affect xulrunner applications though ;)
<asac> pitti: yes. thats what i ask. i think you already run something somewhere :) ... and i wonder if you need a package if we want that hooked in there ;)
<asac> pitti: in intrepid i want to get that into launchpad directly of course
<pochu> hmm, metacity has crashed when disabling the compositor... it has disabled it though
<asac> pitti: i can also produce a directory where the compiled tools are included (along with some meta info we still need in hardy)
<pochu> asac: this still looks bad, I'm going to reboot, hopefully it changes anything
<pochu> is there any xulrunner dir somewhere?
<pochu> or only .mozilla/firefox/ ?
<pochu> .mozilla/ ?
<asac> pochu: not that i am aware of
<pitti> asac: if you could put all that on rookery somewhere, that would be good; then I can integrate it into the langpack-o-matic cronjobs to call your scripts and put the resulting XPIs into the langpacks
<pochu> ok, brb
<seb128> re
<pitti> asac: maybe you can do that installation, and write Arne and me a mail what to call and which files to put into which directories?
<asac> pitti: can you run a script for each language with the following arguments: 1) language 2) path_to_extracted_translation_tarball 3) debian/$language_package_name ?
<seb128> kwwii: did you change the gdm human theme which lists users in the new version?
<asac> or isn't that put into packages?
<seb128> kwwii: we got several users having gdm not starting using this theme since recently
<kwwii> seb128: yes, I included bersace's changes
<pitti> asac: I can (although you should be able to figure out everything from just the path to the extracted source package)
<seb128> kwwii: did you try it?
<pitti> asac: but I'm happy to extract the source pakcage name and language code for you
<kwwii> seb128: hrm, if the list theme does not work then someone should beat up bersace
<seb128> kwwii: what was the change about?
<asac> pitti: well ... thats too much logic imo
<kwwii> seb128: just a visual change to keep it inline with my normal gdm theme changes
<seb128> hum
<kwwii> when he comes online I will ask him about it
<pitti> asac: WDYM with debian/$language_package_name  ?
<seb128> kwwii: ok, thanks
<kwwii> ouch, is it bad when a system update fails while creating the initramfs :p
<pitti> asac: phone call?
<pochu> asac: nothing has changed. But I've looked at the log of the X crash (which should have the DPI I had before the crash, when everything was fine), which I attached to bug 190418, and it's the same I have now, so it's not X's fault. Also, I've logged as a different user and everythings'f fine there (yelp and firefox/launchpad.net). So there's something in my profile... I guess it's safe to assume it's not Xulrunner's fault?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 190418 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "[965GM]  Server crash when starting totem-xine to play a DVD" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/190418
<asac_> pitti: for each application and language combination i have two files, like xulrunner-de.jar xulrunner-de-chrome.manifest ... should i put them in /usr/share/locale-langpack/de/ or /usr/share/locale-langpack-chrome/
 * pochu moves .gconf/ and .gnome2/ out
<asac_> (those will be linked to the appropriate application chrome directories then)
<pitti> asac_: can we have a phone call to discuss this?
<asac_> ok. after lunch?
<seb128> mvo: ok, so you didn't consider the firefox change while doing the upload
<pochu> brb
<seb128> asac: you can upload the metacity change to fix firefox workspace switching issue if you want
<pitti> asac_: sure
<seb128> asac: that seems to be what users expect and the easier way to fix the issue
<asac_> pitti: good. when will you do lunch?
<pitti> asac_: around 13:30 probably, when my wife comes back from uni
<asac_> seb128: are the negative implications for other applications?
<asac_> pitti: ok, ill do the same then :)
<seb128> asac_: not sure, redhat is using the change and seems they didn't get complains
<seb128> asac_: we can give it a try and revert if users start screaming
<mvo> seb128: no, sorry. will look at that next
<seb128> mvo: that's alright, no need to do another upload, let asac decide since that's mainly a firefox issue
<mvo> ok
<pochu> asac: bah, it was .gnome2/monitors.xml
<pochu> everything's looks fine now :)
<pochu> sorry for making so much noise... i'll comment on the bug to make clear everything's fine
<pochu> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6354/ <--- the culprit file
<pochu> I can't see what's wrong there though, but everything's working perfectly after removing it and logging in
<asac> popey: ok. thanks
<asac> oops, pochu ^^
<popey> :)
<seb128> pochu: what was the bug?
<seb128> the effects rather
<pochu> seb128: liferea, yelp, devhelp, ephy, firefox-3 (all xul-based) had large fonts
<pochu> but for firefox, it was only affecting launchpad.net pages
<pochu> seb128: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/13043699/Screenshot-1.png, http://launchpadlibrarian.net/13043689/Screenshot.png
<pochu> seb128: did you see my reply?
<seb128_> pochu: no
<pochu> 12:24 <     pochu> seb128: liferea, yelp, devhelp, ephy, firefox-3 (all xul-based) had large fonts
<pochu> 12:24 <     pochu> but for firefox, it was only affecting launchpad.net pages
<pochu> 12:24 <     pochu> seb128: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/13043699/Screenshot-1.png, http://launchpadlibrarian.net/13043689/Screenshot.png
<seb128> weird
<pochu> it started after an X crash, and after removing .gnome2/monitors.xml it's been fixed
<pochu> asac: I could attach a screenshot with everything fixed so you see the difference ;)
<pochu> luckily the intel driver is really more stable than it was at the beggining of the hardy cycle...
<asac> pochu: no i don't mind ;)
<pochu> I assumed that :)
<seb128> kwwii: bug #210538
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 210538 in ubuntu-gdm-themes "gdm hangs after theme upgrade and reboot" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/210538
<seb128> kwwii: the theme upgrade seems to break gdm for all the users running it
<seb128> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=742511 too
<seb128_> re
<seb128_> I was saying
<kwwii> seb128: ouch that sucks
<seb128_> asac: btw don't bother too much fixing epiphany to work with xul1.9 since they will drop the xulrunner support soon anyway
<seb128_> asac: having the invalid certifcate issue fixed in hardy would be still nice though ;-)
<seb128_> kwwii: indeed
<seb128_> kwwii: testing before uploading is a good idea usually ;-)
<kwwii> bersace takes care of that theme
<seb128_> can you get him to fix it?
<kwwii> definitely
<seb128_> I don't blame anybody, and that's not the default theme
<seb128_> but fixing it today would be nice
<kwwii> if not I will have to fix it myself or remove it
<kwwii> I will make sure it gets taken careof
<seb128_> well, we can revert to the previous version
<seb128_> that should be easy
<seb128_> but right, if you can fix it better
<kwwii> seb128_: it seems my latest changes did not make it in anyway, so I am working on a new theme package anyway
<seb128_> ok, good
<asac> seb128_: yes, i read that. however, i read as well, that even 2.24 might not be done so in worst case even the next release will be xul
<seb128_> asac: right
<pochu> I hope webkit is in a sane state as to be in main for Intrepid, there's a new contributor in Liferea which has been fixind and improving the webkit backend a lot
<gNewPower> hi everybody. I just set up a computer with the latest version of Ubuntu and all my fonts lack "crispness" (for lack of a better word). they look kind of blurred. any idea of what might be causing this?
<Keybuk> I hate DST
<vuntz> seb128__: stop disconnecting, I can't talk to you in a query if you do this!
<vuntz> :-)
<seb128__> vuntz: tell that to orange!
<kwwii> seb128__: I found some more links that I needed to add so there is another human icon theme package coming soon
<kwwii> seb128__: and the human list error is simply freaky...cannot figure out why it is b0rked
<seb128__> kwwii: weird
<seb128__> kwwii: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntulooks/+bug/210837 btw
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 210837 in ubuntulooks "Colors of human theme are displayed incorrectly in gnome-appearance-properties" [Undecided,New]
<seb128__> kwwii: the theme preview is incorrect since the ubuntulooks changes
<kwwii> seb128__: apparently that is a bug in the way the previews are made
<kwwii> seb128__: when I have the metacity with the gtkrc together it shows up right
<seb128__> together?
<tedg> So, let's say someone has their laptop configured to suspend on lid close, but there is another application inhibiting GPM, should we blank the screen?
<kwwii> yes, like a normal theme, with the index.theme in the main dir and the gtkrc and metacity in subdirs
<seb128__> kwwii: that's how it is now, no?
<seb128__> tedg: I would say that the screen should always be cut when the lid is closed, what is the point to use energy for something which you can't look at anyway?
<seb128__> -which
<kwwii> seb128__: erm, right in the installed system they are together
<kwwii> gosh, I just love packaging
<tedg> seb128__: Yeah, my only worry is that someone may perceive that as suspending, throw the laptop in a backpack and destroy their hardware.
<tedg> seb128__: I don't know if we're thinking for them in that case.
<seb128__> tedg: well if they don't look they will not notice that the screen which is closed is still on anyway
<mvo> seb128__: /etc/gconf/gconf.xml.defaults/%dconf-tree.xml is something we do not use, right?
<mvo> or do we?
<seb128__> mvo: dconf? is that the new desrt thing ;-)
<mvo> meh, typo
<seb128__> mvo: that's a bit complicated
<tedg> seb128__: True, and I guess by default we do play a sound...  it's a tough situation.
<seb128__> mvo: that's what upstream use, we do use /var/lib/gconf/defaults though
<tedg> seb128__: I think we should blank, let's see what bugs that generates ;)
<seb128__> tedg: it's not though, just cut the screen on lid close, there is not a lot you can't do for people who don't look at what they are doing
<mvo> seb128__: I look at a gutsy->hardy upgrade <-> fresh hardy install diff currently and for the upgrade there is this gconf.xml.defaults/%gconf-tree.xml stuff with lots of gthumb in it
<seb128__> mvo: but /etc/gconf/gconf.xml.defaults is what broken packages (which don't use dh_gconf) and sys admins will use
<mvo> and I was wondering if that is something we need to worry about
<mvo> aha!
<mvo> gthumb in gutsy?
<tedg> Well, no, the problem is apps like Rhythmbox don't really tell you that they're inhibiting the power manager.  And as they all add those features (which they should) people will be surprised by what happens.
<seb128__> mvo: dunno, let me get the sources
<mvo> and gnome-translate it seems uses /etc/gconf/schemas/ too
<mvo> only worry about it if its something important
<tedg> Perhaps what we really need is something to pop up in the notification area when we're inhibiting.
<mvo> I also have some stuff in /etc/gnome/config after the upgrade but not on a fresh install
<mvo> Motif.ad, Tk.ad etc
<tedg> Wow, I think I might have actually come up with a *good* use of the notification area ;)
<dashua`> tedg: I'm running Hardy on a Dell XPS m1530 and suspend works upon closing lid, but upon resume there is a blank screen which you have to blindly type in your password (nvidia driver)
<dashua`> Need me to test anything, let me know?
<kwwii> seb128__: the really freaky thing about the preview stuff is that the metacity theme is exactly the same
<kwwii> seb128__: same as before, I mean
<seb128> re
<seb128> so
<tedg> dashua`: By blank screen do you mean no graphics or no backlight?  If it's no graphics that either an X or compiz thing, if it's no backlight it might be a GPM thing.
<seb128> kwwii: the colors slightly changed in the workspace switcher applet too, the "non active widget" color is white white now when it used to be a bit grey I think, and the orange is rather flashy it was almost brown before
<seb128> tedg: so as said I would just not stop suspend by default and let people enable the option if you are concern about the surprise effect
<kwwii> seb128: yes, the new theme with choosable colors is hard to make perfectly like it used to be
<seb128> mvo: looking to those
<dashua`> tedg: Just a white screen.
<kwwii> seb128: perhaps we should just use the old version and forget the GUI configurable stuff
<seb128> kwwii: you did a quite good job compared to the version I tried some cycles ago
<dashua`> I'm running compiz as well.
<seb128> kwwii: out of the workspace applet I didn't really notice a difference
<seb128> kwwii: oh, no, the preview is likely something easy to fix, and otherwise I think there is no notable difference
<seb128> kwwii: I was just mentionning the workspace switcher in case one color was not defined or something
<kwwii> seb128: the freaky thing is that when I put the theme in my .themes dir it looks correct
<seb128> weird
<kwwii> the preveiw I eman
<kwwii> s/eman/mean
<seb128> what do you copy?
<seb128> mvo: what was the packages? gthumb and gtranslator?
<tedg> dashua`: My guess would be compiz on that.  I think that they must be putting some sort of overlay on.  I've seen that on my nVidia card also (doesn't seem to be happening now, but I didn't fix it).
<tedg> dashua`: That was happening to me, but it hasn't in a while, but I've been running metacity.
<kwwii> seb128: hrm, I take that back...it does look different, let me look at this closer and get back to you
<seb128> tedg: new gnome-screensaver tarball available btw
<dashua`> tedg: Yeah, I figured it either related to compiz or the nvidia driver.
<seb128> mvo: the hardy gthumb postinst has a case to fix the bug, maybe the transition version need to be updated for ubuntu though
<tedg> seb128: Man, let me read my e-mail first ;)
<seb128> tedg: I just read the svn tag on #commits ;-)
<tedg> seb128: Could you sponsor the GPM package in my PPA?
<seb128> tedg: sure
<tedg> seb128: It should be 2.22.1-1ubuntu2
<mvo> seb128: that would be the line with --makefile-uninstall-rule ?
<seb128> mvo: right
<seb128> mvo: the 3 lines rather
<mvo> that looks pretty old, 2.6.9
 * mvo tests it
<seb128> ok, time for diner, see you later
<pochu> seb128: hi, could you look at this RFS? The patch is from upstream, and has got confirmation that it solves the crash in the bug report. i didn't test it because I don't use Evo, but it builds and installs fine: http://emilio.pozuelo.org/~deb/tracker.debdiff
<seb128> pochu: sure, thanks for working on the change
<pochu> thanks for looking into it :)
<vuntz> can anyone check if http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=513138 still happens in hardy?
<seb128> vuntz: looking
<seb128> vuntz: no it's fixed
<vuntz> seb128: thanks
<seb128> you are welcome
<pochu> seb128: thanks for the upload
<seb128_> pochu: you are welcome
#ubuntu-desktop 2008-04-03
<dholbach> good morning
<seb128> mpt: hey
<seb128> mpt: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Experiences/PlayingCds is confusing
<seb128> mpt: you wrote "Tested with Ubuntu Hardy beta by MatthewPaulThomas. " but hardy uses brasero and not serpentine and rhythmbox should open the CD and start playing it when inserted
<seb128> mpt: are you sure you tried the right ubuntu version?
<seb128> mpt: that's rather confusing
<slomo__> vuntz: ping? :)
<vuntz> slomo__: pong
<slomo__> vuntz: hi, just wanted to ask you if i need to do anything else except the mail to desktop-devel for bumping the liboil minimal required version :)
<vuntz> slomo__: no, that's all you need to do
<slomo__> ok, good
<slomo__> thanks
<vuntz> (you can of course bribe some release team people)
<mpt> seb128, I wrote only the "Heuristic evaluation" section. The rest of the page is probably out of date.
<seb128> mpt: ah ok
<seb128> mpt: what version of rhythmbox did you have?
<seb128> mpt: when inserting a CD rhythmbox is supposed to switch to the CD and start playing
<mpt> seb128, whichever was in Hardy beta -- finding the version myself would require restarting into Hardy
<mpt> (which I can do if you like)
<mvo> asac: have you seen my question about apturl and ff3? (bug #203538)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 203538 in apturl "Don't work with Firefox3 beta4" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/203538
<huats> morning everyone
<huats> hey seb128 mvo and crevette
<mvo> hey huats
<seb128> mpt: no hurry, I'll have a look first and might ping you back about the "don't start playing the cd" issue
<seb128> mpt: did you use an audio only disc or one with a data track too?
<seb128> lut huats
<mpt> seb128, audio-only
<mvo> Amaranth: hey! I'm updating compiz today and I was wondering if there is a reason for our compiz-dev to depend on compiz-core. do we really need that (if so, I assume because of core.xml?)
<Amaranth> I don't think I ever did that
<seb128> mpt: ok
<pclynch> im having problems with the "switch users" function and need help. everytime its run it goes to a blank white screen. whats wrong?
<Amaranth> pclynch: Firebomb nVidia HQ
<pclynch> Amaranth : come again?
<Amaranth> pclynch: nvidia driver bug
<mvo> Amaranth: ok, thanks. I remove it and see what happens
<pclynch> Amaranth : oh i see, is there anyway to fix this?
<Amaranth> pclynch: the only 'fix' is to disable compiz
<pclynch> Amaranth : oh... :
<pclynch> Amaranth : might it be resolved in hardy?
<Amaranth> nope
<pclynch> Amaranth : alright well thanks, atleast i know whats wrong now
<mpt> If that's a common problem, I hope it's explained on help.ubuntu.com somewhere
<kwwii> seb128: it seems that #210538 is not related to the gdm theme itself, or?
<seb128> bug #210538
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 210538 in ubuntu-gdm-themes "gdm hangs after theme upgrade and reboot" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/210538
<seb128> kwwii: no, doesn't seem to be the theme
<Amaranth> mvo: btw, bugs marked In Progress on compiz should be fixed if you're syncing to latest upstream code
<seb128> kwwii: ok, so this gdm human list theme issue
<seb128> kwwii: that seems to be the gtk bug I though about
<mvo> Amaranth: aha, thats great. I will have a look at the list soonish, I'm preparing the upgrade in a PPA and will ask for testing later and apply for a freeze exception
<mvo> Amaranth: I understand the new 0.7.4 release is pretty close too, right?
<seb128> kwwii: commenting the gtk_color_scheme = in the HumanList gtkrc seems to workaround the issue and that doesn't seem to impact on the colors
<Amaranth> as i understand it the 0.7.4 release was supposed to be out for use in the spring release of distros
<mvo> yep
<Amaranth> so it should actually have been around right about now
<seb128> kwwii: do you know why Human and HumanList have different gtkrc variants and if that line is required?
<Amaranth> otherwise it'll be too late for ubuntu and fedora, at least
<Amaranth> i'll see if ixce and/or onestone can give an update
<mvo> its just a matter of days I think (maybe even hours) - but I should ask in #compiz-fusion-dev
<kwwii> seb128: nope, I left the old version of gtkrc in the human theme because you cannot select the colors anyway for gdm
<kwwii> seb128: I guess that bersace put in a new version of the gtrc
<seb128> kwwii: ok, so have you a pending upload?
<kwwii> seb128: yeah, I am working on it now
<seb128> kwwii: otherwise if one of you artwork guys could confirm I can comment the gtk_color_scheme there that would be nice
<kwwii> seb128: I also have a ubuntulooks update to fix the preview issue
<tjaalton> where does the "about me" -dialog write?
<seb128> kwwii: I doubt the gtk bug will be fixed for hardy
<seb128> tjaalton: there is a rewrite?
<kwwii> seb128: yeah, the important thing here is that the bug is gone (or the humanlist theme, one or the other)
<seb128> kwwii: ok, so please comment the line in bzr so it's in the next upload
<tjaalton> seb128: no I mean where does it read/write it's information
<seb128> kwwii: let me know when you need sponsoring for the gdm theme or ubuntulooks
<seb128> tjaalton: evolution-data-server
<Amaranth> tjaalton: afaik that gets stuffed into evolution-data-server
<tjaalton> yuck
<tjaalton> nevermind then :)
<kwwii> seb128: will do, I also have an update for human icon theme
<seb128> ok
<seb128> artwork on fire this week ;-)
<kwwii> this is what happens when I start doing packaging :p
<kwwii> between leading the community, making mark happy, doing the artwork itself, and packaging my job is getting complicated ;-)
<Amaranth> kwwii: You should help with compiz bugs too, it's just a little step from there :)
<Amaranth> You make pretty things, we make pretty things, etc ;)
<kwwii> Amaranth: lol, no doubt
<mvo> *sigh* new compiz segfaults for me, how strange
 * mvo pokes around a bit more
<kwwii> hrm, bug #161746 seems to be a problem with the screensaver stuff in human-theme
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 161746 in human-theme "on dist-upgrade error on substituting human-theme" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/161746
<asac> mvo: sorry, does the preference show up in about:config ?
<mvo> asac: no
<asac> ah
<asac> mvo: ok. one part of the problem is that  then obviously ;)
<mvo> indeed
<asac> mvo: another question is if it works with those preferences at all?
<asac> have you tried to set them manually?
<mvo> not yet, I was wondering if I have the wrong config dir, but then there is a firefox.js in the same dir that seems to work. I will look closer when I finished with my compiz stuff here
<asac> mvo: i think we accidentially dropped the syspref patch during the cycle
<mvo> aha
<asac> it has been readded for netxt upload
<asac> so for me the config is at least read now.
<asac> mvo: what was the meaning of apt+http ?
<asac> (vs. just apt://)?
<mvo> asac: deprecated, not used anymore
<mvo> it was meant to add repositories to the sources.list but we dropped it for security concerns
<asac> k
<mvo> but generally its the right dir (the same as firefox.js) - so after the next upload it should work (assuming the pref names are correct etc)
<asac> mvo: yes ... but it would be firefox only. i think we should have something similar for /etc/xulrunner-1.9/
<mvo> right
<asac> mvo: i will let you know in case we introduce this now. i have to discuss this with Mozillateaam
<asac> mvo: for now the location is right
<asac> everything else is a bug on our side
<tjaalton> umm, gnome-power-manager needs to be running in order for the logout-button to work?
<tjaalton> because it starts g-p-m if it's not running already
<Amaranth> tjaalton: that's dbus autostarting the service because the logout dialog tried to ask gpm if it could sleep/hibernate
<tjaalton> Amaranth: urgh
<tjaalton> that's a bug imho.. it should first check gconf if gpm is allowed to do that, and only then check the daemon
<mvo> Amaranth: hrm, 013-add-cursor-theme-support breaks with the latest compiz. do you remember why this is not upstream?
<Amaranth> mvo: Because I never got around to reviewing it
<Amaranth> I don't even know where it came from
<mvo> maybe gandalfn remembers (or even wrote it :) ?
<seb128> mvo: you might want have a look to bug #40379 before hardy
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 40379 in notification-daemon "Notification window too small to fit text." [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/40379
<seb128> mvo: there is a patch, not sure if it's correct but would be nice to get the issue fixed if that's correct
<mvo> thanks seb128
<seb128> mvo: you are welcome :-)
<_MMA_> Hi seb128. kwwii mentioned he talked to you about this odd GDM bug. He said it might have come down to the new color-picker gtkrc used in the theme. Ubuntu Studio's theme had hard-coded values and this bug just bit me. I'm trying to pin it down now.
<seb128> re
<seb128> _MMA_: I know what the issue is, did you read my comments on the other bug?
<_MMA_> I didnt see the current one sorry.
<mvo> Amaranth: I uploaded new snapshots to  https://edge.launchpad.net/~mvo/+archive - testing much appreciated (once its build)
<seb128> _MMA_: bug #210538
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 210538 in ubuntu-gdm-themes "gdm hangs after theme upgrade and reboot" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/210538
<_MMA_> seb128: Thanx
<seb128> you are welcome
<_MMA_> seb128: So which comment is it? The "Commenting the gtkrc gtk_color_scheme =" part?
<seb128> _MMA_: well, I pointed the GTK bug which is the issue in one comment and that is my suggested workaround
<_MMA_> seb128: That's what I was saying. The Ubuntu Studio theme doesn't have that as the values are hard-coded.
<seb128> _MMA_: maybe you have a different bug then
<_MMA_> I get to the desktop by removing GDM. Once I reinstall it and the system tries to start it it crashes instantly. Ill let it report the crash.
<gandalfn> mvo: yep it's me i made 013-add-cursor-theme-support, it's a back hack which pool gconf cursor theme key, it's never merged in compiz git because the last time i see the  code ;), it's plan to support a native cursor theme.
<kwwii> mvo, pitti, seb128: just for information I have several updated packages to be uploaded (human-icon-theme, ubuntu-gdm-themes, human-theme, and ubuntulooks)
<kwwii> who wants to take a whack at them?
<seb128> can do that
<seb128> urls?
<pitti> just distribute them evenly amongst us :)
<seb128> just the dsc are enough
<kwwii> ok, let me post the links....one second
<kwwii> http://sinecera.de/human-icon-theme_0.28.dsc
<kwwii> http://sinecera.de/ubuntu-gdm-themes_0.29.dsc
<kwwii> http://sinecera.de/human-theme_0.15.dsc
<kwwii> http://sinecera.de/ubuntulooks_0.9.12-10.dsc
<seb128> looking to ubuntulooks
<seb128> ah, this one is easy
<seb128> kwwii: so that was a theme bug!
<_MMA_> seb128: Well I dont know, because the Ubuntu Studio theme now works. No no new updates.
 * _MMA_ is totally stumped.
<seb128> _MMA_: weird
<seb128> kwwii: the change seems weird though, using selected_bg_color for bg[SELECTED] seemed logical
<seb128> looking to ubuntu-gdm-themes
<_MMA_> seb128: At one point, I deleted our GDMs gtkrc. After that, things worked! :) But, just to see, I added it back and it still worked.
 * _MMA_ scratches head.
<seb128> _MMA_: are you sure you didn't have a version use themeable colors?
<_MMA_> Restarted GDM. Rebooted a bunch. All still works.
<_MMA_> seb128: Positive.
<seb128> weird then
<_MMA_> I should try to put one in and see.
<_MMA_> But removing it all together just uses the default system theme so I'm just gonna yank the one from our GDM.
<kwwii> _MMA_: seb was talking about the preview of the theme in the theme selector
<kwwii> it uses the selected_bg_color as the window decoration color in the previewer for some reason
<kwwii> so we added an extra definition so it displays correctly in the theme chosser
<kwwii> chooser
<kwwii> anyway, /me tests gdm now
<_MMA_> kwwii: He and I *were* talking about GDM earlier. That's what I was talking about just now. (thought I can see that would get confusing) But I don't see that issue personally in the preview for the system theme.
<kwwii> ahhh, ok
<kwwii> _MMA_: well, after replacing the gtkrc to one with hard-coded colors it works for me
<_MMA_> So weird. I should replace mine with one and test.
<kwwii> seb128: yeah, the previewer seems to look through the file to find the right definition of bg color to use for the window decoration so even though the theme worked the previewer didn't
<kwwii> seb128: btw, I found I had to remove the thumbnails when I was testing it for it to appear correctly
<seb128> kwwii: right for the thumbnail
<_MMA_> kwwii: How? :P
<kwwii> seb128: not sure if the version number bump will fix that or not
<seb128> kwwii: but I'm not sure to understand the fix, are you sure it's correct?
<kwwii> seb128: yes, it works fine now on several machines
 * kwwii actually tested this stuff before submitting the changes this time :p
<seb128> kwwii: right, I don't question the fact that it works, I fixed the workspace switcher color being too light too
<seb128> kwwii: I'm rather wondering why it's work, it's it correct or if that's a workaround ;-)
<seb128> kwwii: human-icon-theme seems to be buggy
<seb128> hum, no
<kwwii> seb128: after looking at other themes this seems to be the correct way
<seb128> ok
<kwwii> seb128: last night I had it differently (which was just a hack that happened to work)
<kwwii> so this is the right way
<seb128> kwwii: ok, that was the previous version which was buggy
<seb128> you had the configure, etc in the source when usually there are not
<kwwii> ouch...I probably built the package in the source before doing the debuild
<seb128> that means the clean target is buggy
<kwwii> should I reapply my changes and rebuild the sources?
<kwwii> from a fresh source, I mean
<seb128> no, today's version is correct
<kwwii> whew :-)
<seb128> that's the current hardy one which has the bug
<kwwii> cool, a problem which I didn't create! that is something different :p
 * kwwii feels bad for anyone having to deal with an art-hacker
<seb128> scp is buggy nowadays
<seb128> the speed estimation on upload are all wrong
<seb128> it goes to 100% too quickly and then stands there while the copy is happening
<seb128> kwwii: hum, you added a depends on gtk2-engines-murrine again?
<kwwii> seb128: yes, after talking to mvo we decided it had to be that way if we supply the gtkrc
<kwwii> or there would be a theme without the appropriate engine
<seb128> the package is small enough I guess that's no issue
<seb128> yeah
<kwwii> yeah, it is like 800kb or so
<seb128> that's because mvo didn't get apt installing recommends in hardy!
<seb128> slacker!
 * seb128 hugs mvo ;-)
 * mvo runs from seb128
 * kwwii hugs everyone - group hug!
<seb128> yeah, group hug ;-)
<seb128> kwwii: btw 800k is a lot for a theme, the deb seems to be rather 38k ;-)
<kwwii> better still
<kwwii> erm, even better
<seb128> kwwii: ok, all your updates are uploaded ;-)
<kwwii> w00t
<kwwii> thanks man, I appreciate you taking care of it so quickly
<seb128> I confirmed that the humanlist theme and the human preview issue are fixed on my box too
<seb128> you are welcome
<kwwii> excellent
<pochu> seb128: there's a new upstream libarchive packaged in Debian, which enables the testsuite in build... have you seen it?
<seb128> pochu: no$
<pochu> seb128: do you want me to look into it, or is it late for this change?
<seb128> pochu: is that a different version? maybe ask to pitti
<pochu> err, we have 2.2.4 and that's 2.4.17...
<pitti> yes, AFAIR it is
<pochu> I guess that's a no-go...
<pitti> I forwarded the patch upstream, had a quick discussion, and he adopted it
<pitti> so we can sync in intrepid
<pochu> ok
<seb128> kwwii: hum, changelog autoclosing didn't work because you didn't use the right syntax, you might want to close the ubuntu-gdm-themes bugs by hand now
<seb128> pitti: well, nothing else in main uses it so it could be a good idea to use a recent version?
<pitti> I don't know what they changed
<pitti> there are just two or three reverse build-deps in universe
<seb128> does it matter what they changed if it's not used out of the gvfs anyway?
<pitti> well, we shuoldn't break the other rdepends :)
<pitti> but if it doesn't change ABI etc., we can consider it, sure
<seb128> well, if pochu checks those
<seb128> I don't really care either way
<seb128> it just seems easier to maintain security wise if we don't have an outdated codebase
<pitti> yeah
<pochu> it would be cool if apt-get source libarchive/hardy worked, as apt-get install libarchive/hardy does...
<kwwii> seb128: right, will do
<kwwii> but first I will figure out what I did wrong :p
<seb128> kwwii: you forgot the ":" in the syntax
<kwwii> duh
<seb128> tedg: do you need g-s-s sponsoring?
<pochu> +Aug 05, 2007: New configure option --disable-bsdtar, thanks to Joerg
<pochu> +	Sonnenberger.
<pochu> perhaps we wnat to use that?
<pochu> want*
<pochu> that was one of the concerns of the security team, wasn't it?
<pochu> (maintaining bsdtar for no reason...)
<seb128> well, the binary is in universe
<seb128> so I don't know if that's really an issue
<pochu> ah, right
<pochu> the new package from Debian also packages bsdcpio, but that's also a different binary which could be demoted
<tedg> seb128: Let me check to ensure it built, but probably.
<tedg> seb128: Yes, looks good, if you could sponsor it that'd be great.
<seb128> tedg: ok, will do
<tedg> I'm not sure how many people are running NIS on Hardy, but we should push the update anyway :)
<tedg> seb128: Thanks.
<seb128> you are welcome
<pitti> seb128: what's your feeling on bug 211358?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 211358 in gnome-volume-manager "Disable auto-popup of xsane" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/211358
<seb128> pitti: never got the issue so far so I've no real opinion about that, in which case do you get the popup?
<pitti> seb128: as soon as you plug in a scanner
<seb128> well, usually those are plugged on the computer and stay there
<seb128> no?
<pitti> well, at least I don't keep them switched on all the time
<pitti> and I know many people who do the same
<seb128> ah, you have a switch to turn yours off and on, ok
<pitti> especially with scanner/printer combos
<seb128> right
<seb128> I don't think anybody relies on this notification to use the device anyway
<seb128> I think disabling it is alright
<pitti> ok, thanks
<pochu> oh nice, the bsdtar testsuite fails
<pochu> it's failed in Debian too, in all archs but mipsel
<lapo> hi
<crevette> hello
<crevette> pitti: around ?
<walrren> Keybuk: are you guys actively moving to upstart-style scripts?  and what's the status of debian on changing scripts?
<seb128> fta_: do you want to do the libcairo update?
<fta> seb128, sure, but tomorrow.
<seb128> fta: ok, thanks
<pochu> why is ~ubuntu-desktop subscribed to all these bugs? bugmail from that team ends in ubuntu-desktop@l.u.c... https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop
<seb128> pochu: "these bugs" being?
<seb128> ah
<seb128> some people confusing ubuntu-desktop and desktop-bugs when subscribing or assigning
<pochu> yes
<pochu> it's not very annoying as it's very few bugmail
<seb128> well, they don't go on the list since launchpad is not subscribed
<pochu> well, in fact they do: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2008-April/001537.html
<pochu> s/in fact/actually/
<seb128> pochu: this guy is subscribed to the list that's why
<pochu> that doesn't make sense to me...
<pochu> I'm subscribed to the list too and my bug mail doesn't end in the list :)
<pochu> seb128: I think that's because https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop has ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com as the contact address
<seb128> pochu: right, that's on purpose to not flood members
<seb128> pochu: though it might be fixed now in launchpad since team can use launchpad lists
<pochu> I see
<pochu> as I said that's not a big deal as I haven't seen many bug mail in ubuntu-desktop@, I just wanted to report it to you so that we know what's happening in case that grows :)
#ubuntu-desktop 2008-04-04
<seb128> pochu: list cleaned, thanks
<seb128> usually we don't get too much launchpad spam on the list because either people are not subscribed and the mails go to the moderation queue
<seb128> or they are subscribed and they know what they are doing
<pochu> ah, right
<fta> seb128, "Cairo now depends on pixman 0.10.0 which was recently released"
<fta> want me to do it too ?
<seb128> fta: would be nice
<fta> ok
<seb128> could you open a bug for this update and attach the changes there?
<fta> I will
<seb128> we will need to ask for an update approval
<seb128> thanks
<Amaranth> ooh, i wonder if that pixman has the optimization work
<fta> i wish all those stuff were maintained in bzr..
<pochu> we could do a desktop-team vs bzr round 2 once Intrepid is released :)
<fta> or during UDS
<pwnguin> in relation to bug #211237, why does gdmconf refuse to run if gdm isn't running?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 211237 in gdm "gdmsetup won't run without gdm running" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/211237
<pwnguin> i have to say, i hate it when triagers get my bug reports wrong
<dholbach> good morning
<seb128> hello dholbach
<crevette> hello pitti
<crevette> I've uploaded a patch to improve slightly the autostart .desktop file
<crevette> i've put it on the bug about bad description in gnome-session
<seb128> crevette: that breaks translations right?
<crevette> ah perhaps
<crevette> I didn't look at this point
<crevette> ie: it is for jockey
<crevette> I didn't care about that, I just cared about fixing the problem
<seb128> that's alright
<crevette> oh time to go to work
<crevette> buye
<crevette> bye
<pitti> hi crevette
<pitti> argh, gone already
<pitti> I saw that patch and commented on it
<seb128> pitti: he'll be back later most likely
<pitti> right
<seb128> pitti: do you have an opinion on poppler 0.8? that's a sucking situation
<pitti> no idea without seeing the changelog
<seb128> pitti: well, it's the new stable, but they changed some api naming and the sonames
<pitti> oh, ugh
<seb128> so updating is not easy
<pitti> well, do we have to?
<seb128> but on an another side maintaining an outdate code for a lts is not optimal neither :-(
<seb128> no
<pitti> well, let's say it'll be slightly less outdated :)
<seb128> but nobody is going to fix issues on 0.6
<seb128> and fedora is already shipping the new one
<seb128> hey hey mvo
<mvo> hey seb128!
<seb128> mvo, pitti: I'm not sure to understand bug #211381
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 211381 in gdm "/etc/default/gdm inconsistency on dapper->hardy upgrade" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/211381
<seb128> using packages.ubuntu.com gives no result for this file in dapper nor hardy
<pitti> seb128: it might get created by the postinst?
 * seb128 gets the gdm dapper source
<seb128> pitti: hum, right
<pitti> seb128: so I take it it's not relevant any more?
<seb128> pitti: the dapper version seemed to use it to get the locale or something,  but it's not used nowadays
<seb128> pitti: I think the preinst should just rm it
<pitti> right, was just going to type that ;)
 * pitti hugs seb128
 * seb128 hugs pitti
<seb128> ok, fixing that
<pochu> good morning!
<asac> hi pochu
<seb128> hey pochu asac
<pochu> hi asac and seb128 :)
<asac> seb128: i am running the metacity fix since yesterday. couldn't spot any negative regression.
<asac> seb128: will upload
<seb128> asac: alright
<asac> done ... lets listen ;)
<pochu> oh, good :)
 * pochu deactivates the config workaround
<asac> whats going on ... i uploaded and in the next second the bug was already fixed in LP :)
<asac> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox-3.0/+bug/175904/comments/31
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 175904 in firefox-3.0 "Firefox-3.0 window moves to current workspace" [Medium,Confirmed]
<tjaalton> asac: that's still an issue with compiz
<asac> tjaalton: ? i never saw it in compiz
<tjaalton> asac: when I get a popup from a window that's on another workspace it sometimes moves the window to the current workspace
<asac> tjaalton: compiz has the issue that it doesn't raise the windows reliably iirc, but that isn't "window moves to current desktop"?
<asac> hmm
<huats> moring everyone
<tjaalton> first the mouse cursor goes crazy for a couple of seconds and then it either changes the view to that workspace or moves the window to the current workspace
<asac> tjaalton: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=307581#c12
<asac> In compiz, the _active workspace_ switches.
<asac> This is about the metacity issue, which everyone agrees is clearly wrong.
<ubotu> bugzilla.redhat.com bug 307581 in metacity "apps jump workspaces when urls opened" [High,Assigned: ]
<asac>  The
<asac> compiz behavior seems more or less sane.
<tjaalton> asac: right, it should change the workspace, but sometimes it doesn't and moves the windows to the current one
<asac> thats what caillon says
<tjaalton> but it's probably a compiz bug
<pochu> oh, looks like the apt-get source foo/distro bug was reported a year ago
<pochu> I wish I knew c++ :)
<asac> tjaalton: you want to add compiz to the bug above or open a new one?
<tjaalton> asac: hmm, if it's purely a compiz bug I'd rather open a new one. I think some update last month broke it, so it's not necessarily a ff3 bug
<asac> ah ok
<asac> i leave in your hands then ;)
<tjaalton> OTOH compiz 0.7.4 is out, so maybe I'll just wait until it's in the archive :)
<tjaalton> and see if it's fixed
<tjaalton> confirmed that the bug still exists. we have a helpdesk system that opens a popup when you get a new ticket, so the window is on another workspace and the popup comes up on the active workspace. when I click "OK", the "move workspace" animation gets stuck, and the mouse cursor rapidly changes state (normal/text mode), and when it finishes all the FF3 windows have moved to the current workspace
<tjaalton> maybe I'll file a bug now that I already wrote what happens :)
<asac> ;)
<tjaalton> I wonder if there's another app I can test with
<asac> tjaalton: try the POC in the redhat bug
<tjaalton> ah
<asac> most likely you need to run it multiple times
<asac> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=307581#c2
<asac> there you go
<ubotu> bugzilla.redhat.com bug 307581 in metacity "apps jump workspaces when urls opened" [High,Assigned: ]
<tjaalton> thanks, I'll try it out
<pochu> seb128: I've created a debdiff for bug 204682. should we upload it or better to wait for GNOME 2.22.1? http://emilio.pozuelo.org/~deb/gcalctool.debdiff
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 204682 in gcalctool "Incorrect power interpretation" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/204682
<Amaranth> tjaalton: That's not a compiz bug, that's a "the spec does not provide enough information to do the right thing" bug
<asac> Amaranth: "and the mouse cursor rapidly changes state (normal/text mode),"
<Amaranth> ok, maybe that
<asac> ;)
<Amaranth> but the core issue is not a bug
<asac> given that compiz normally moves to the workspace
<Amaranth> maybe we're trying to match metacity :)
<Amaranth> after all, if metacity does it it can't be wrong
<asac> why would it be ok to suddenly not do that, but moving the app to the current workspace
<Amaranth> right? :)
<asac> Amaranth: hehe. yeah. metacity is fixed now.
<Amaranth> there are cases where both methods fall over
<seb128> pochu: can wait until next week I would say
<pochu> fine, I'll say so in the report
<asac> tjaalton: "and when it finishes all the FF3 windows have moved to the current workspace"
<asac> you say that even windows not involved move to the current workspace?
<asac> or just dialog + parent?
<tjaalton> asac: all FF windows from that workspace move
<asac> tjaalton: only from that workspace?
<tjaalton> but not from other workspaces
<tjaalton> right
<asac> Amaranth: ^^
<Amaranth> hrm
<asac> i think there is some shaky bug here  that finally shakes everything to the current workspace :-P
<Amaranth> Window managers are hard, lets go shopping!
<tjaalton> :)
<asac> hehe
<asac> tjaalton: maybe find someone who can reproduce that first ;)
<asac> who knows what kind of patches you carry around
<tjaalton> asac: that POC code.. what is it supposed to do? it only opens a blank window when I run it
<asac> tjaalton: yeah ... it opens a blank window .... then you should switch to another workspace
<asac> 5 seconds later it calls present
<tjaalton> ah
<asac> tjaalton: maybe you need to modify that to not call "present", but open a dialog
<asac> after 5 seconds + all present on that
<asac> s/all/call/
<asac> next step would be to open 3 windows, open one dialog and call present on that to see all windows getting moved to current workspace ;)
<tjaalton> well, I just hit the wall with my non-existent python skills :)
<asac> tjaalton: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6456/
<asac> oops
<tjaalton> heh
<asac> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6457/
<asac> thats it ;)
<asac> maybe also call w0.present() before the d.present()
<tjaalton> haha, worked! thanks :)
<asac> unmodified?
<asac> good
<tjaalton> yes
<asac> let me test on my compiz desktop :)
<tjaalton> but, this time all the windows from the current desktop switched to the one where that script was running :P
<asac> tjaalton: can you open a bug and attach that testcase?
<tjaalton> yeah
<asac> i think two windows should be enough
<asac> tjaalton: doesn't happen here :(
<asac> maybe some compiz plugin?
<tjaalton> hmm, so maybe it's my settings then
<asac> i just have a basic setup
<tjaalton> should be pretty basic
<tjaalton> I'll try it on my laptop
<asac> tjaalton: actually ... my desktop doesn't move at all
<asac> e.g. i get no notification on the other desktop
<tjaalton> aha! :)
<asac> so its probably some basic setting i am missing
<tjaalton> could be
<tjaalton> on my laptop it worked like it should, ie. moved the desktop and not the windows
<asac> hell, why are things not moving here
<tjaalton> maybe I need to dump the settings and diff them
<asac> damn
<asac> tried "Extra" ... no success
<asac> tjaalton: yeah
<tjaalton> uh, now I remembered that it sometimes does the same when I move windows with ctrl-alt-shift
<asac> Amaranth: any idea what setting i might need to make present switch the workspace at all?
<Amaranth> asac: there is no setting to manage that
<Amaranth> there is a specification
<asac> Amaranth: well. it doesn
<asac> t happen here on my compiz hardy desktop
<asac> if its not a compiz setting, it must be something else
<Amaranth> Window managers are hard, lets go shopping!
<asac> yeah ;) ... but i want to switch to the new desktop ;)
<Amaranth> My one dive into tweaking the window management parts of compiz ended up in the patch I've been waiting on review for over a month now
<Amaranth> So I tend to stay out of there :)
<asac> maybe they have a workflow problem :)
<Amaranth> Yes, the lead developer wants to write code, not run a project
<asac> lets fork ... that is contributer friendly ;)
<Amaranth> And the other two with commit access defer to him when someone changes something they don't completely understand
<asac> lets start a flame ;)
<tjaalton> ok, it's getting more weird
<tjaalton> tried it on another workspace that only has a terminal, and changed to another workspace that has terminals, gedit and some firefox windows. things worked fine
<tjaalton> tried it five times. then changed to the workspaces I used before and it still happens there
<tjaalton> the compiz settings were almost identical, same plugins etc
<tjaalton> closing emacs, baobab and the pidgin window helped
<tjaalton> yeah, pidgin is the culprit!
<tjaalton> asac, Amaranth: ^^
<Amaranth> pidgin is one of the ones that does weird things and breaks around this part of the spec
<tjaalton> I normally keep the buddy list window open
<tjaalton> closing it fixes this
<asac> lets kill pidgin :) ... gajim is far better ;)
<tjaalton> it does only jabber, I use icq :)
<asac> at lesast if you don't rely on niche protocols like ICQ and whatever exists in the woods
<tjaalton> <g>
<asac> I guess the real problem is icq here :)
<tjaalton> I've had the account for ten years :)
<pochu> and msn! ;)
<asac> tjaalton: i had some good experiences in the past with ICQ gateways hosted by my jbber provider
<tjaalton> tjaalton: ok cool, I actually have only one friend left who's using icq, so it shouldn't be too hard to switch :)
<asac> mvo: firefox-themes-ubuntu will pull in firefox-2 if folks upgrade ... can i just make a recommends out of firefox-2 to prevent that?
<mvo> asac: yes, that should work
<tjaalton> duh, can't reproduce the pidgin/compiz problem on my laptop
<huats> lut crevette
<crevette> salu
<crevette> t
<pitti> hi crevette
<crevette> hi pitti
<pitti> crevette: I saw your bug yesterday, and answered
<crevette> ah ok
<crevette> I'll see
<crevette> pitti, you can let the _name has it is for now, and perhaps change it on next cycle ?
<crevette> fso for hardy let it as it is, but change it for Intrepid
<pitti> crevette: I'm happy to add a Comment: field
<crevette> it won't break the string freeze ?
<pitti> changing is worse than adding
<crevette> okay
<pitti> but I need some guidance what Comment: should say
<crevette> yeah, I'm not sure which form to use
<crevette> Notify about new hardware drivers which are applicable to your system is fine
<crevette> or "Notifies about new hardware drivers which are applicable to your system"
<crevette> is there guideline ?
<pitti> I don't know :(
<crevette> followinf desktop entry spec it should be Notify
<crevette> http://standards.freedesktop.org/desktop-entry-spec/desktop-entry-spec-latest.html#comments
<crevette> "Notify about new hardware drivers applicable to your system"
<crevette> it is shorter and have the same meaning, no ?
 * pitti <- no native speaker, but it sounds fine to me
<crevette> I'm fine with that at least
<crevette> and for printer applet i'd do 'View and control the jobs sent to printers'
<crevette> :)
<crevette> pitti, do I need to add a comment on the bug ?
<pitti> crevette: please, so that I won't forget
<crevette> pitti, can I confirmed the bug for jockey ?
<pitti> crevette: yes, please
<crevette> assigned to you ?
<pitti> crevette: sure; please set it to 'inprogress' while you are at it
<pitti> crevette: merci
<crevette> ah okay
<crevette> you're welcome
<Hobbsee> crevette: that's correct english usage
<Hobbsee> crevette: although s/applicable/available/ would be better
<Hobbsee> crevette: er, s/applicable to/available for/
<crevette> okay
<crevette> thanks Hobbsee for the comment
<Hobbsee> crevette: y/w
<fta> seb128, i'm doing pixman. there's no shlib symbol checking, can I add one ?
<seb128> fta: what do you call checking? you mean it doesn't use a shlibs version? add one if that's required, ie if there is new functions in the api
<asac> mvo: apturl apt:flashplugin-nonfree?section=multiverse ... does that work now?
<fta> there's no symbol file in the current/debian version. it's easier when there's one
<seb128> fta: ah, you mean the new feature to list symbols? that's not required, not sure if that's the sort of changes we should introduce now but if you think that's useful feel free to add one
<asac> mvo: bug 208722
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 208722 in firefox-3.0 "Firefox "intall missing pluging" leads to "Can not find 'flashplugin-nonfree'"" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/208722
<fta> seb128, i think it's good to have it, the sooner the better but if you think it will prevent the upload for this time, i'll wait
<fta> seb128, do we have a fix for bug 198759 / bug 208224
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 198759 in xkeyboard-config "Right CTRL don't work" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/198759
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 208224 in xorg-server "[hardy] right ctrl key does nothing (french layout) (dup-of: 198759)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/208224
<fta> it's annoying on a laptop
<asac> fta: i think bryce or tjaalton would know better
<fta> ok, asking
<kwwii> dholbach: who gave you the pdf casestudy files to put in example-content?
<kwwii> dholbach: I found a spelling error in one file in the word Copyright (it says Cop7right)
<dholbach> kwwii: they are at www.ubuntu.com/products/casestudies
<seb128> fta: I don't think it'll prevent the upload no, so feel free to do the change
<fta> ok, nice
<seb128> fta: no, I've no real clue about xkeyboard-config
<seb128> fta: and I never use the right ctrl
<seb128> somebody should send that on bugzilla.freedesktop.org
<fta> cjwatson is talking about that on -devel
<seb128> right
<seb128> and I agree with him, that seems to be an on purpose change
<seb128> btw I don't agree with you that every french user expect the right ctrl to act as ctrl, I don't know a lot of people using this key
<seb128> and I think it's rather mapped to compose or other things
<seb128> might be useful if you a right-handed though
<fta> I use ctrl + left/right arrows to switch workplaces
<seb128> I use ctrl-alt arrows
<seb128> but my left hand is on the left ctrl and alt
<seb128> and my right hand is on the arrows
<fta> I can do that with one hand
<seb128> you are right hand trained apparently ;-)
<fta> no
<seb128> I expect most normal user to let this one on the mouse
<fta> i'm left handed
<seb128> doh
<seb128> that's what I meant when I wrote right-handed before
<seb128> right, it's useful for left handed people, that's why I think the "most user expect" comment is not really accurate
<seb128> right-handed users tend to use this hand for the mouse and use the left hand for modifiers
<seb128> anyway let's wait for the  upstream reply about the purpose of the change
<fta> i tend to not use the mouse at all :)
<seb128> you are not a basic user ;-)
<fta> most probably not
<huats> I have seen in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/TODO  : "update the yelp ubuntu layout " can anybody explain me a bit what it means ?
<fta> the (red) error message for bad auth in gdb is misplaced on my 1440x900 laptop, it's underneath the username field
<fta> i mean gdm
<seb128> fta: seems to be a theme bug
<fta> default install
<fta> fresh from ~2 weeks ago
<lapo> hi
<kwwii> fta: that bug was fixed yesterday
<fta> really ? let me logout again :)
<kwwii> fta: you would have to apply the updates from today
<fta2> sure
<lapo> mvo: update manager icon, wouldn't it be better to use "system-software-update" icon when the package manager is working istead of the (badly scaled) desaturated "software-update-available"
<lapo> ?
<mvo> lapo: hm, that sounds like a plan, I want to make sure people see that there is something working and that its not the right time to run more software managment applications
<seb128> fta: how is the libpixman update going?
<fta> oh, i'm done, i just need to open a bug
<fta> but there are api changes...
<seb128> fta: could you do it now? I need to try cairo git for a bug and I would like to avoid redoing the libpixman work myself just to build cairo git ;-)
<fta> hence the version bump
<seb128> fta: api changes, like breakage and soname change? or new functions only?
<fta> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6464/
<fta> the thing is they support gcc visibility now so some symbols are now hidden
<seb128> ok, so things should still be working, right?
<fta> that's why I wanted to add the symbol checking
<fta> i hope so, but i cannot guaranty it
<Nafallo> asac: agreed :-)
<Nafallo> asac: re: pidgin vs. gajim
<seb128> fta: none of those were in the .h apparently so that should be alright
<fta> yes
<fta> and the 4 new symbols shouldn't hurt either
<seb128> fta: do you have the debdiff somewhere then? I need it now
<fta> doing the bug right now
<seb128> fta: yes, new symbols are no issue
<seb128> fta: thanks
<fta> bug 211785
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 211785 in pixman "Please sponsor pixman 0.10.0-0ubuntu1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/211785
<fta> seb128, ^^
<fta> doing cairo now
<seb128> fta: thanks
<lapo> mvo: I think the update icon would work, anyway for hardy+1
 * mvo nods
<lapo> mvo: for hardy you should try to fix the scaling issue tho, looks like you desaturate just one size then scale it down
<lapo> mvo: so you get a fuxxy icon
<lapo> fuzzy even
<lapo> or do you ship a desaturated icon?
<seb128> fta: can you attach a debdiff between version including upstream changes and a diffstat and maybe the symbols diff you copied before on the bug?
<fta> ok
<seb128> fta: that will make easier to get the the approval
<seb128> they will need to look at the changes
<fta> it's a huge one
<fta> 500k
<seb128> that's alright
<seb128> they will want to look at it quickly
<mvo> lapo: no, I destaturate it on the fly, but its possible that this happens only once, I need to check
<seb128> I expect most will be autotools, etc
<fta> done
<fta> formatting looks weird
<ember> seb128 when you have time can you look at bug #211769
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 211769 in pidgin "FFe for Pidgin 2.4.1" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/211769
<seb128> ember: ok
<ember> thanks.
<fta> seb128, bug 211791
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 211791 in cairo "Please sponsor cairo 1.5.16-0ubuntu1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/211791
<fta> tell me if you want me to change something in either pixman or cairo
<fta> do you also need full debdiff for cairo ?
<seb128> fta: no, cairo should be already, we are tracking 1.5 anyway
<seb128> fta: btw what is the -c4 shlibdeps option about?
<fta> make it ftbfs if there's any difference in the symbol file
<fta> so the packager has to take a closer look
<fta> it's good practice
<fta> preventing unchecked push
<seb128> is that documented somewhere?
<seb128> the dpkg-shlibdeps manpage lists no -c option
<fta> man dh_makeshlibs
<fta> i mean dpkg-gensymbols
<seb128> fta: ups, I was looking at dh_shlibdeps instead
<seb128> thanks
 * pitti hugs asac for fixing metacity to get along with firefox link opening
<crevette> asac, did you get feedback from epi team to fix the cert problem ?
<wonko69> hello all
<fernando> hey all
<pochu> hey fernando
<fernando> hey pochu, how are you going?
<pochu> fernando: where have you been all this time? :)
<pochu> fernando: pretty good, thank you
<pochu> (good or well?)
<pochu> fernando: what about you?
<fernando> pochu, I was working hard and studying. now the project (work) done and have time =)
 * pochu really needs to study more...
 * fernando too
<fta_> pochu, do you know that you have tracker 0.6.6-0ubuntu1 retrying your ppa since 2008-03-03 ?
<fta_> +in your ppa
<Nafallo> any ekiga person around?
<fta_> pochu, a few zillions retries
<tedg> Could someone try the GPM in my PPA to see if it fixes 193617?
<tedg> I believe it does, but I'd like to test on more than one laptop.
<tedg> Hmm, everyone else gets the little bot to comment on their bug... how about #193617
<tedg> Errr, LP: #193617
 * tedg is sad that ubotu dislikes me so.
<seb128> tedg: bug #193617
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 193617 in gnome-power-manager "Hardy rhythmbox stops screen from blanking on laptop lid close" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/193617
<tedg> seb128: Heh, thanks.  I knew it had to be something like that :)
<sistpoty> seb128: around? we're just looking for delegates regarding freeze exceptions for universe onces final freeze starts. Would you like to deal with gnome related exceptions?
<seb128> sistpoty: what work would I have to do? just ack or not the freeze break request?
<sistpoty> seb128: yes
<sistpoty> seb128: or give it back to motu-release (if not gnome-related)
<seb128> sistpoty: I'm not sure I want to sign for extra mail? Is there a team subscribed to those or do you use tags or something?
<sistpoty> seb128: well, we use ~motu-release for all motu-release bugs, but exceptions can happen on irc, too. Otherwise I'd request people to subscribe you to a bug.
<seb128> sistpoty: oh, in fact we can use the team for that, subscribe ubuntu-desktop to those
<seb128> I'll look at the list daily or something
<sistpoty> seb128: ok, great. thanks!
<seb128> and so other desktop team members can give a hand on those
<seb128> sistpoty: you are welcome
<seb128> tedg: you might want to ask for testing on #ubuntu-bugs or again next week, european friday evening is not the best time to get replies on this chan ;-)
<fta> seb128, about pixman, sync or sponsor ?
<fta> or merge ?
<tedg> seb128: Yeah, I was thinking the same.  I'm hoping the poster of the bug will have time to test it this weekend.
<tedg> seb128: It'd be nice if the OP said it works :)
<Nafallo> seb128: hi :-)
<seb128> tedg: right
<seb128> Nafallo: hey
<Nafallo> seb128: who is the main ekiga guy those days? :-)
<seb128> Nafallo: nobody
<Nafallo> seb128: hmm. that wasn't the answer I was looking for ;-)
<seb128> fta: it needs to be approved by slangasek first, and I was going to upload your work first because you spent efforts on it and sync later, but we can sync directly if you think that's ok. Is there any ubuntu change required?
<fta> seb128, of course, i would prefer to see my work used instead of ignored. as for the ubuntu changes, I think the symbol file should stay. donno if debian has it now.
<seb128> fta: they have from the changelog
<fta> hmm
<seb128> fta: ok, so I think we will wait for approval, upload your version next week (don't want to update a base lib while everybody is away for the weekend in case something is buggy) and we will sync later if there is no ubuntu change required
<fta> ok
<seb128> fta: btw you need to bump the shlibs version too
<fta> i didn't ?
<fta> pixman or cairo ?
<fta> oh, i see
<seb128> <jcristau> seb128: re:211785, i'm not too sure about the symbols file in there. some enums changed between 0.9.6 and 0.10.0, so i think the version should be bumped for functions which use those
<seb128>  but i'm talking about the debian/libpixman-1-0.symbols file
<seb128> fta: maybe look at what they did for the debian update
<fta> it's not yet on p.u.c and I no longer have any debian box
<seb128> fta: dget http://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/p/pixman/pixman_0.10.0-1.dsc?
<fta> seb128, well, the packaging has changed but the result is the same. I have the strict symbol checking that is not in debian
<seb128> fta: what he was saying is that the pixman_format_code_t enum changed and that the function which use it should have their versioning updated to 0.10
<fta> then dpkg-gensymbols will fail with -c4
<seb128> why?
#ubuntu-desktop 2008-04-05
<seb128> alright, enough work for today, see you later
<crevette> hello
<crevette> is universe freezed ? ie can we push new version of softawre ?
<crevette> I would like to see nemiver pushed
<crevette> we still ship a 8 monthsq old version
<fta> pochu, don't worry, you're not alone, some are doing that for more than 6 months
<pochu> wow
<pochu> that sounds like a bug in ppa then
<fta> i've already reported that but it's by design apparently
<pochu> hmm
<fta> not limited to ppa
<fta> go complain :)
<pochu> :)
#ubuntu-desktop 2008-04-06
<YokoZar> Has anyone here been able to beat Lagno, Chess, and Four-in-a-row on their easiest settings?
<pwnguin> is the question whether it's possible, or whether the easy difficulty truly easy?
<YokoZar> pwnguin: Oh, I think it's possible.  But, yes, I have a very strong suspicion our own easiest difficulty is too hard for our own developers :)
<pwnguin> ive only met one chess game that I could beat on eas
<pwnguin> easy
<pwnguin> and that was a Nintendo DS game ;)
<aleehk82> is this the right channel to discuss irc-integration?
<tjaalton> Amaranth: about the "windows changing the workspace" bug.. it's happened on my laptop a couple of times now, no pidgin running. Once it happened when I changed the workspace with the keyboard, just that it changed all the workspaces then, ie. mirrored them horizontally
<Amaranth> file a bug upstream
<Amaranth> bugs.opencompositing.org
<tjaalton> thanks, I will
<Amaranth> although i doubt it'll be fixed in hardy
<Amaranth> but if you file it there maniac will at least take a look at it
<tjaalton> well, maybe backported
<Amaranth> he knows much more about that bit than me
<tjaalton> ok, we'll see
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-03-30
<pitti> Good morning
<huats> morning everyone
<pitti> hey huats
<huats> hello pitti
<huats> how are you ?
<pitti> huats: pretty good, thanks; you?
<huats> same here :)
<huats> thanks !
<seb128> good morning there
<huats> morning mister seb128
<huats> ;)
<seb128> lut huats
<huats> how are you seb128 ?
<robert_ancell_> seb128: good morning
<robert_ancell_> pitti: hi also!
<seb128> huats: good apparently, you? ;-)
<seb128> hey robert_ancell_!
<seb128> robert_ancell_: how was you flight back?
<huats> so am I !
<huats> robert_ancell_: hey robert
<robert_ancell_> huats: hey!
<pitti> hey seb128
<pitti> good morning robert_ancell_
<pitti> made it back in one piece?
<robert_ancell_> flight was long and uneventful...  And I think I watched every movie in their catalogue
<seb128> did you have the same movies on the way back?
<robert_ancell_> seb128: yes.  So I had to watch the dregs on the way back
<pitti> robert_ancell_: seems you need more laptop spare batteries
<seb128> bah, time after beta is crazy for bugs activity
<robert_ancell_> pitti: yeah no power points on economy class.  And no power points in Abu Dhabi - new airport but no facilities
<seb128> I got almost 700 bug emails during the weekend
<seb128> pitti, mvo: want to help on the sponsoring queue today? ;-)
<pitti> seb128: heh, I only got 350
<pitti> seb128: ah, yes
<seb128> hey MacSlow
<MacSlow> greetings seb128
<pitti> hey MacSlow, good morning
<seb128> MacSlow: did you get my email about notify-osd? ;-)
<pitti> seb128: I'll start with uploading the three new DX versions, shall I?
<pitti> oh, right, I saw your reply
<seb128> pitti: I did review notify-osd during the weekend, got my reply?
<pitti> seb128: I'll start with the indicator stuff
<MacSlow> seb128, email is slow today
<seb128> pitti: if you want, thanks
<seb128> MacSlow: I sent on saturday, let me copy that here if you didn't get it
<MacSlow> seb128, I'm checking
<seb128> MacSlow:
<seb128> "I've looked at the update, the install has this change though
<seb128> "< /usr/share/dbus-1/services/org.freedesktop.Notifications.service
<seb128> ---
<seb128> > /usr/share/dbus-1/services/org.freedesktop.Notifications.service.in"
<seb128> which breaks the dbus autospawning and make it not run"
<mvo> seb128: sure
<MacSlow> *sigh*
<seb128> mvo: want to look to the brasero update in the queue? that's a svn change robert_ancell_ did backport should be no issue
<mvo> seb128: ok
<seb128> thanks
<MacSlow> gee... my evolution just doesn't come around?
<MacSlow> wtf
<robert_ancell_> seb128: any last requests for my end of day?
<seb128> robert_ancell_: not really, you should try to fix your timezone, I will probably drop you an email with some tasks or assign you some bugs during my day
<seb128> robert_ancell_: so you have something to do for tomorrow ;-)
<seb128> robert_ancell_: did you manage to find interesting to do today? I see that you did some bug triage ;-)
<robert_ancell_> seb128: yeah pretty much triage and admin regarding travel today.
<seb128> ok
<robert_ancell_> seb128: I'm planning this week to start actively triaging a new package a day.  Currently gnome-games, gcalctool, vinagre.
<seb128> enjoy your evening there, I've nothing specific waiting today so I think there is no point for your to stay around for nothing
<seb128> that sounds a good plan!
<pitti> robert_ancell_: sleep well!
<seb128> I will probably assign you some bugs or updates during the week so watch your assigned bugs too ;-)
 * robert_ancell_ stomach rumbles... Time for dinner!
<robert_ancell_> seb128: ok, will do.
<MacSlow> seb128, my evo is really dead atm.
<MacSlow> seb128, trying to kill and restart it
<robert_ancell_> ok, see you guys tomorrow!
<seb128> MacSlow: I copied the email there
<seb128> MacSlow: you just install the service.in rather than the .service
<pitti> MacSlow: sounds like your intent is to create the .service at build time with some detected stuff? I just wonder what kind of detection you'd do during build?
<seb128> pitti:
<seb128> Exec=@LIBEXECDIR@/notify-osd
<MacSlow> @LIBEXECDIR@
<pitti> aah
<pitti> odd, ISTR that we had that for ages already
<seb128> service_DATA=org.freedesktop.Notifications.service.in
<seb128> I guess you want to change that
<seb128> to service_DATA=org.freedesktop.Notifications.service
<MacSlow> seb128, I never touched the packaging branch of notify-osd before. So I'm surprised this turned up just now
<seb128> that's not in the packaging it's in the upstream tarball
<seb128> MacSlow: it's commit 257 which broke it
<seb128>  servicedir=/usr/share/dbus-1/services
<seb128> -service_DATA=org.freedesktop.Notifications.service
<seb128> +service_DATA=org.freedesktop.Notifications.service.in
<seb128> +
<seb128> +EXTRA_DIST= $(service_DATA)
<seb128> you want to keep _DATA to .service
<seb128> and add the .in to EXTRA_DIST
 * MacSlow wishes we had automated builds after each commit to catch that earlier
<MacSlow> package-builds that is
<seb128> MacSlow: I can fix it in the package for this round but please fix the upstream code too
<pitti> seb128: you're going to update notify-osd then, while you are at it?
<seb128> pitti: I've the update ready, with bugs closed in the changelog etc, I was just waiting to sort that with MacSlow to upload
 * pitti hugs seb128
 * pitti hugs MacSlow, too
 * seb128 hugs pitti
<MacSlow> changes from David
<seb128> davidbarth: ^ ;-)
<crevette> hello gentlemen
<seb128> lut crevette
<crevette> salut seb128
<MacSlow> seb128, I'll ask him why he changed that on the morning-call
<seb128> ok
<seb128> MacSlow: I think that was to have the .service.in the make dist tarball
<seb128> MacSlow: ie adding the service.in to EXTRA_DIST
<seb128> but that was done incorrectly
<MacSlow> service_DATA=org.freedesktop.Notifications.service
<MacSlow> EXTRA_DIST= $(service_DATA) org.freedesktop.Notifications.service.in
<MacSlow> I assume that's better
<seb128> service_DATA=org.freedesktop.Notifications.service
<seb128> EXTRA_DIST=org.freedesktop.Notifications.service.in
<seb128> rather
<seb128> you don't need the .service in the tarball
<seb128> it's built from the .in during the build
<MacSlow> hm... yeah
<crevette> seb128, about the inclusion of gnome-user-share by default in ubuntu, against which component should I open a bug? ubuntu?
<MacSlow> seb128, fix committed and pushed
<seb128> MacSlow: thanks
<MacSlow> seb128, thanks!
<seb128> crevette: none
<seb128> crevette: those things should be discussed on mailing list not on a bug tracker when nobody out of bug triagers will read it
<crevette> okay
<mvo> seb128: I assume bug #344431 should be added to the brasero upload as well?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 344431 in brasero "cd / dvd creator appears in the apps menu, not in places" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/344431
<pitti> seb128: taking libunique, or do you have a lock on it?
<seb128> mvo: please do
<seb128> pitti: I'm doing bugs I've commented on, ie libunique and pidgin
<pitti> seb128: ack
<seb128> pitti: would be nice if you could look at fusa, it unbreaks translations and has a freeze exception request
<seb128> brb, restarting session to make sure the notify-osd update works correctly
<seb128> ok, works
<seb128> MacSlow, pitti: new notify-osd uploaded
<pitti> seb128: fusa> taking
<pitti> seb128: yay you, thanks
<MacSlow> seb128, sweeeeet!
<seb128> MacSlow: good work on the new version, nice to see several crashers fixed there ;-)
<tseliot> seb128: as regards bug 346964
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 346964 in gnome-panel "menu items selected from screen 1 open on screen 0" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/346964
<tseliot> seb128: I have found a workaround which makes the gnome menu and the panel launch apps using the right display. I haven't found the real problem though. And nautilus keeps opening files using the wrong display. Shall we include my patch for gnome-panel anyway?
<MacSlow> seb128, yeah... put my personal "pet hates" about notify-osd I wasn't able to fix yet... but crashers enjoy higher prio :)
<seb128> MacSlow: good that we sat down with davidbarth at the office too, I was able to point him the fallback icon issue too ;-)
<pitti> hey tseliot, good morning
<tseliot> seb128: I get the display name from g_app_launch_context_get_display() and set it with g_setenv(). I know it shouldn't be necessary but I can't find the actual bug in the gtk (gdk) library
<tseliot> pitti: good morning to you ;)
<seb128> tseliot: can you try to get vuntz's opinion on the change?
<tseliot> seb128: I already talked to vuntz but we haven't found the real problem yet
<MacSlow> seb128, doing in person meetings/sprints is always good
<seb128> tseliot: would he accept the gnome-panel change upstream?
<tseliot> seb128: no, I guess not since it's not a bug in gnome-panel but in gtk (I *think*)
<mvo> asac: should firefox in intrepid show me a restart required notification in the browser itself? I remeber seeing that some time ago, but do not in the intrepid version. is that expected?
<seb128> tseliot: I would prefer to wait and try to fix the real issue for now
<tseliot> seb128: but my patch helps and unless the bug is fixed before jaunty's release, our users will have a rather frustrating experience with multiple screens
<tseliot> ok
<seb128> tseliot: we can still include your patch in a week if we didn't find something else
<seb128> tseliot: did you open an upstream gtk bug?
<tseliot> seb128: sounds like a plan :-)
<tseliot> no, but I'll do it soon
<seb128> thanks
<tseliot> seb128: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=577273
<ubottu> Gnome bug 577273 in Panel "Gnome Panel (and menu) launches applications using the wrong $DISPLAY" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<tseliot> just FYI
<seb128> tseliot: thanks
<tseliot> np
<seb128> tseliot: I though that was a GTK bug?
<tseliot> seb128: maybe. I can't see where the bug is. In the bug report I suggested that I can be a bug in GTK
<seb128> tseliot: ok, I was suggesting to open in GTK in this case so you might get a reply from the GTK guys
<seb128> tseliot: nobody out of vuntz will read this one on gnome-panel and vuntz already did know about it
<tseliot> seb128: I looked at gdk and went up to glib but I didn't find anything suspicious
<seb128> ok
<tseliot> oh
<seb128> btw the nautilus issue should be fixed in svn
<seb128> did you try their change?
<tseliot> seb128: are GTK bugs reported in the gnome bugzilla?
<seb128> yes, gtk+ component there
<tseliot> seb128: yes, I did and it doesn't seem to solve the problem
<seb128> it should solve the places menu problem no?
<tseliot> seb128: no, it doesn't, at least not here
<tseliot> which makes sense if it's a gtk bug
<tseliot> seb128: is it possible to reassing the bug to a different product in the gnome bugzilla?
<seb128> tseliot: yes, the component is a combo, just pick an another component there
<tseliot> ok, let me change it
<tseliot> seb128: shall I leave the "target milestone" empty?
<seb128> yes
<tseliot> ok
<tseliot> done
<seb128> good
<pitti> seb128: since bug 345244 is fixed upstream, we just wait for a new tarball instead of sponsoring the fix?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 345244 in totem "Plugin "Subtitels downloader" can't be activated" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/345244
<seb128> pitti: you can sponsor the fix, new tarballs are in 3 weeks
<seb128> pitti: we can give testing to fixes before that
<pitti> seb128: ack, doing
<seb128> thanks
<pitti> seb128: I don't think that the transient unlock breakage in bug 345107 is too bad, but it seems you'd rather want to stall the upload?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 345107 in gnome-screensaver "Please, sponsor gnome-screensaver 2.26.0 to jaunty" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/345107
<seb128> pitti: well, it means that users will have no way to go back to their session
<seb128> pitti: ie they are good to power down the box with everything they have open running
<pitti> seb128: if all else fails, the postinst could killall gnome-screensaver?
<pitti> that's a very big hammer, though
<seb128> that would unlock locked sessions while the user might be not there
<seb128> which is a security concern
<pitti> that would leave the user without screensaver at all until reboot
<seb128> it's not unusual to let the computer do the upgrade while being away
<pitti> true that
<seb128> I would really prefer to get that bug fixed before doing the upgrade
<seb128> I'm really not comfortable with that issue
<pitti> seb128: ack
<pitti> seb128: taking bug 341487
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 341487 in avant-window-navigator "'don't cover the bar' options doesn't work" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/341487
<seb128> pitti: thanks ;-)
<seb128> I'm fighting bug log and help gvfs upstream to debug some smb issue right now
<mvo> asac: I just talked to a old friend who is pretty computer literate and tried ubuntu for the first time. for him network-manager was a bit of a challenge because under windows its the right-click that shows the available wireless networks. so he clicked right and searched and searched and did not find it. have you seen similar problems?
<asac> mvo: hmm.
<asac> mvo: i havent done much usability testing here ;)
<mvo> asac: I was just curious if someone reported a bug
<mvo> asac: probably not something we can do for jaunty, but might be worthwhile to consider for karmic
<asac> mvo: yeah, but not sure how to best do it. I think dx plans to do some user experiments.
<asac> mvo: but the fact that he found the wireless disconnected icon means that its not that bad ;) ... at least he got it almost right
<asac> mvo: so one idea i could think off is to make the connection editor more powerful, so you can also connect from there
<asac> meaning users that dont left click find the "Edit Connections" (maybe "Manage Connections") and then can configure and directly connect in the dialog
<mvo> asac: yeah, I was thinking the same. if edit connections would be more powerful
<hyperair> pitti: regarding nautilus-share, i accidentally uploaded a wrong patch. diff'd the wrong thing in git
<mvo> asac: I reported #351487 about it (just FYI)
<asac> mvo: cool ;)
<asac> pasted my input there
<mvo> thanks
<tseliot> asac: news on network-manager for hardy? (sorry to be a pain)
<tseliot> s/to be/ for being/
<asac> tseliot: what do you want? 0.7.1?
<tseliot> asac: yep
<asac> i think you can be happy that we didnt upload that there
<asac> there has been breakage now and then
<asac> i will wait till its final ;)
<asac> hopefully soonish
<tseliot> asac: the only reason why we need it is for this https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/chelsea/+bug/327247/
<ubottu> Error: This bug is private
<tseliot> :-/
<tseliot> ok, let's wait for the final release
<asac> tseliot: hopefully will happen this week ;)
<asac> if it doesnt happen you can be lucky you dont have it yet
<tseliot> asac: ah, so very soon
<tseliot> good
<asac> as it means we founda nother bad issue ;)
<asac> we wanted to release 0.7.1 final 3 three weeks ago
<asac> but there were bad regressions in some part of modem detection
<tseliot> ok, so you took some time to fix the regressions
<tseliot> fair enough
<pitti> seb128: hm, so I should or shouldn't upload bug 270644?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 270644 in gnome-games "Sudoku crashes on startup" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/270644
<seb128> pitti: just do it, I was going to do it because it's ready for upload I added the comment just to point that it's not worth backporting small changes
<pitti> seb128: ok, doing then
 * seb128 hugs pitti
 * pitti hugs seb128 back
<seb128> I'm almost done catching up with my bug emails
<pitti> nice
 * pitti didn't even start with them yet
<seb128> ArneGoetje: hey, could you have a look at why current language packs in jaunty have no evolution-data-server-2.26
<seb128> they seem to still have -2.24 for evolution-data-server and evolution-exchange
<seb128> where current are 2.26
<ArneGoetje> seb128: I'll check later
<seb128> ArneGoetje: thanks
<Keybuk> pitti: so DeviceKit is even more no-more now
<Keybuk> DeviceKit-* will talk to udev directly
<Keybuk> (not even via dbus)
<pitti> Keybuk: oh, not even in udev-extras?
<pitti> oh-uh
<Keybuk> no, we finally read the book on netlink
<Keybuk> and discovered that udev can, once it has processed the event, send a message *back* on the netlink socket
<Keybuk> so it does that
<pitti> Keybuk: I don't see a new DK-power release
<Keybuk> which means anything can open the uevent netlink socket, switch to udev's multicast group, and receive uevents post-udev-processing
<pitti> if there is one soon, I'd like to update that in universe and remove the devicekit package
<Keybuk> this is all karmic stuff
<pitti> Keybuk: you loose all the support for multiple types, argument marshalling, etc., though?
<Keybuk> we won't have the udev that does this until then, I'm intending to not upgrade it between now and release ;)
<pitti> ah, ok
<pitti> I just leave them like they are then
<Keybuk> pitti: DeviceKit doesn't really have multiple types now
<pitti> they work right now, with the g-p-m in the -desktop PPA
<Keybuk> *nods*
<pitti> interesting juggle
<Keybuk> indeed
<Keybuk> mvo: I realise this is the most silly of issues, but do you know if I can make it so the desktop background *also* moves when I switch viewports? :p
<Keybuk> the whole "windows vanishing while the desktop and panel stay where they were" thing, while clever, is really freaking me out :p
 * Keybuk figures it out
<mvo> Keybuk: you can get the old behaviour back if you go to ccsm and go to "wall" and remove the non slidding windows there
<hggdh> seb128, ping
<seb128> hggdh: hi
<hggdh> hi seb128, with libpst accepted, should I open a MIR for it?
<seb128> yes please
<hggdh> k will do
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> and sorry you got so much trouble getting it reviewed
<kenvandine_wk> pitti: i see ekiga source has been uploaded, but it isn't built
<pitti> kenvandine_wk: ah, I bet it needs some NEWing, let me look
<seb128> replacing an existant lib by an another codebase is not a common scenario ;-)
<hggdh> heh
<hggdh> just my luck, very first package had to be a complex issue
<pitti> kenvandine_wk: hm, nothing in NEW; ptlib is current on all arches, and opal on all but armel
<pitti> kenvandine_wk: (did you get an FTBFS mail for opal/armel?)
 * kenvandine_wk looks
<pitti> kenvandine_wk: ah, it's building right now
<pitti> kenvandine_wk: seems slangasek just NEWed those some hours ago
<kenvandine_wk> ok
<kenvandine_wk> great
<pitti> kenvandine_wk: ok, opal/armel is just "needs building", not ftbfs
<kenvandine_wk> pitti: where can i look to see  build status?
<pitti> kenvandine_wk: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/opal -> click on topmost version
<kenvandine_wk> oh
<kenvandine_wk> ok
<kenvandine_wk> i see
<pitti> seb128: hm, for a few days now, using gpg invokes "pinentry" and it doesn't remember the passphrase for very long
<pitti> seb128: is that an intended change?
<seb128> not that I know
<seb128> seahorse didn't change recently that I know
<seb128> rickspencer3: pidgin still crashing?
<phomes> seb128: wrt bug 339337 I just wanted to make sure it was noticed that sudoku no longer needs numpy i 2.26. The comments suggest that you are holding back on removing numpy for sudoku. (numpy was needed up to 2.25.92)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 339337 in gnome-games "gnome-sudoku uses python-numpy which is not installed by default" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/339337
<seb128> phomes: thanks for the comment we did remove the depends on numpy the comment was to raise that it created an issue there
<seb128> phomes: we didn't add the depends back but planned to see what was required for sudoku, good that you tackled this one ;-)
<phomes> seb128: I have removed the dependency on gnomeprint on trunk. It's a rather invasive change but since it is the only dependent app on gnomeprint it might be interesting.
<seb128> phomes: that's already in jaunty
<seb128> phomes: but thanks again ;-)
<phomes> seb128: oh. You guys are quick :)
<seb128> phomes: well it was the only thing still using libgnomeprint that's why I pinged on the upstream bug
<seb128> robert_ancell backported the change some days ago
<seb128> the print result is a bit less nice than the libgnomeprint one but closer of what you have on screen
<phomes> seb128: yes. I was planning to adjust that a bit. Should I ping you guys if I make patches to make it nicer upstream?
<seb128> that would be nice thanks
<jcastro> didrocks: ping
<seb128> jcastro: hey, you should just ask your question ;-)
<jcastro> heh
<seb128> jcastro: do you know if uds invitations have been sent yet?
<jcastro> I am working on it right now, just got the go ahead to proceed
<jcastro> they should be out in an hour or so
<andreasn> when is UDS?
<seb128> ok good
<jcastro> seb128: sometimes people don't fill out email address in lp so I have to go hunt people down.
<jcastro> *cough* didrocks
<jcastro> andreasn: may 25-29
<andreasn> jcastro, cool. I might come
<seb128> jcastro: ok ;-)
<jcastro> andreasn: !
<jcastro> andreasn: I miss you man
<andreasn> when was the last time we met?
<andreasn> I was in your country in October, but I can't recall if we met then
<seb128> vuntz: hello? ;-)
<andreasn> jcastro, are you going to GUADEC?
<seb128> vuntz: I see that you commited session storing changes to svn
<didrocks> jcastro: sorry for hiding my e-mail :) you can try didrocks -at- ubuntu.com
 * didrocks hides ;)
<seb128> vuntz: is that much different of the patch in bugzilla? did you fix the restart case?
<dobey> hey andreasn
<andreasn> hi dobey
<dobey> andreasn: you *should* come to UDS
<jcastro> didrocks: I found it.
<andreasn> dobey, lots of stuff happening in May, but yeah, sure, I'll do my best
<dobey> heh
<andreasn> because LGM is in May too I think
<dobey> bah
<didrocks> jcastro: damned, unmasked ;)
<dobey> LGM is in canuckland though
<dobey> skip LGM and just go to UDS :)
<dobey> barcelona > montreal
<vuntz> seb128: it's a bit better than the patch in bugzilla, but still more or less the same
<vuntz> seb128: restart/shutdown is not fixed yet
<seb128> ok thanks
<seb128> so probably not worth doing a svn snapshot yet
<vuntz> (much harder than what I originally thought, because of ConsoleKit)
<vuntz> nope
<seb128> let me know when you do changes which need testing
<seb128> I can snapshot svn to jaunty
<andreasn> dobey, I hope I can do both in the end
<vuntz> seb128: fwiw, I'll do a 2.26.0.90 tarball once the restart/shutdown thing is fixed
<seb128> excellent thanks!
<dobey> andreasn: yeah
<andreasn> dobey, as LGM is at the beginning of the month anyway
<dobey> ah
<andreasn> where in Canada does Steven Garrity live?
<seb128> pedro_: did you look upstream for bug #351347?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 351347 in evolution "After renamed the Personal calendar it doesn't retain the new name" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/351347
<dobey> andreasn: PEI i think
<dobey> andreasn: yeah, in PEI
<pedro_> seb128: I'm doing it, bugzilla is taking ages though, haven't forgot about it
<seb128> pedro_: ok, cool, I mark the email as read then ;-)
<pedro_> seb128: ok :-)
<kenvandine_wk> asac: do you know the status of the strings for bug 338389?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 338389 in network-manager-applet "flip connected message and ssid in wireless device" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/338389
<asac> kenvandine_wk: we flipped them, but there is an issue with missing icon
<asac> not sure where this question comes from ;)
<kenvandine_wk> :)
<kenvandine_wk> talking to the dx guys, they are looking for status on the strings... if we are still waiting for translations, etc
<Bojhan> mtp: png
<Bojhan> mpt: ping
 * kenvandine_wk -> lunch
 * pitti -> Taekwondo, cu tomorrow
<mpt> darn
<Bojhan> mpt: hey
<mpt> hello Bojhan
<Bojhan> mpt: Hehe, hard time catching you. How are you doing?
<mpt> Bojhan, crazy busy as usual
<Bojhan> mpt: Hehe, I know the feeling
<Bojhan> mpt: Well if you have any time, I would love to catch up a bit on ubuntu's efforts around ux and see how Drupal is similair and diffrent.
<mpt> sure, now's good
<Bojhan> mpt: oke great, so basicly all I know of your article, and I have been using it as ground work for a lot of improvements around our process
<mpt> neat
<Bojhan> mpt: Could you tell me abit about what you guys are doing, working on? I have just recently tested ubuntu, with my little cousins here, and they seemed to have completely missed they transferd from a windows to ubuntu envoirment
<dobey> (curious: which article?)
<Bojhan> dobey: http://mpt.net.nz/archive/2008/08/01/free-software-usability
<mpt> Bojhan, for #1, companies that support Ubuntu (including Canonical, obviously), and companies that ship Ubuntu on their hardware (such as Dell and HP) have a financial interest in making it more usable. And Canonical is pushing distributed version control generally, though that hasn't produced noticable branch competition yet.
<kenvandine_wk> holy crap... my laptop won't boot
<mpt> Bojhan, for #2 we haven't done anything in particular yet (though we're hiring:-)
<dobey> haha, "15 pixels of fame"
<mpt> Bojhan, for #3, we have comments pages on wiki.ubuntu.com and (lots of) mailing list discussions, and we've implemented quite a few changes in response to those discussions (though not as many as some people would have liked)
<dobey> lots of people get to see the result of what i did in webkit, but it's hard to point at safari and say 'i did that'
<mpt> unless you're in "Help" > "Acknowledgments"
<Bojhan> mpt: But from the community, is there no reconizements?
<mpt> (and I guess most WebKit developers aren't)
<mpt> Bojhan, I'm not sure. What's a reconizement?
<Bojhan> mpt: Well at our confrences, core contributors and such are starting to state how active certain designers are in making drupal easier to use, that is a massive effort ect.
<mpt> ah, right
<mpt> Nothing like that yet
<mpt> though sabdfl does have a habit of sponsoring people with excellent ideas to attend the Ubuntu Developer Summits :-)
<mpt> For #4, in Canonical's new Design team we're working out a process for user testing by computer science classes and other organizations that want to contribute in a fairly reliable way
<mpt> which will hopefully make us less reliant on "well, for *me* it works fine"
<Bojhan> mpt: So you havn't done any slightly formal usability testing?
<mpt> For #5 it's mainly a matter of leading by example. E.g. Ubuntu's new notification system had a design spec that was about 60% written before coding began.
<mpt> Bojhan, we have on Launchpad, but not on Ubuntu yet
<mpt> For #6, using the notification system as an example again, the design spec is extremely detailed so there's little room for whim (though the flip side of that is that it becomes hard for programmers to find the particular text they should be implementing right now)
<Bojhan> Wow,
<mpt> For #7, nothing yet
<Bojhan> Thats quite something, I have yet to be able to pin a spec as leading for any patch yet
<mpt> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotifyOSD is the spec in question
<Bojhan> mpt: for #7 we are now in a trend of people asking for interface pattrens, to solve all of their issues
<mpt> yes, there's a bit of that
<mpt> like the Yahoo Web interface patterns
<Bojhan> mpt: yhea, I am quite unsure how that is going to work out.
<mpt> For #8, Gnome already has a culture of simplicity (and so do some individual projects, like Pidgin for example), and companies that make money from Ubuntu are starting to get interested in working on the stuff that's less sexy for volunteers
<mpt> (with notable exceptions, e.g. Evan Dandrea worked on Windows-to-Ubuntu migration well before being hired by Canonical, and the Wubi guys are volunteers too)
<mpt> #9 is a problem we haven't tackled yet. For example, one of my colleagues reported a bug a couple of weeks ago about a horribly-presented error message, and was fobbed off by a well-meaning QA volunteer who basically said "you should suggest this on brainstorm.ubuntu.com instead"
<Bojhan> aww
<mpt> She had to pull out a reference to the Gnome interface guidelines before the bug report was accepted :-)
<Bojhan> mpt: I am going around just marking stuff as Critical bug, which need to be fixed for a release
<Bojhan> aww :(
<mpt> Good for you, if you have the authority
<mpt> #10 is just an ongoing struggle, nothing much to say there
<Bojhan> mpt: Well your culture is probally still 2x drupal's size, so we just have visability that makes it possible.
<mpt> same with #11
<mpt> true
<mpt> For #12, Canonical's UX design team is 90% working from the same office in London. That doesn't much help the rest of the community, though.
<mpt> For #13, see #5 above
<Bojhan> so for #12 is Canonical the largest contributor to the UX of Ubuntu?
<mpt> No, the largest contributor is the Gnome project
<mpt> Gnome has regular meetings and hackfests, but is mostly distributed
<Bojhan> Ahh
<mpt> For #14 and #15, watch this space
<Bojhan> mpt: I think that #14 is one of our biggest problems,
<mpt> yeah, I guess that would be tricky for Web frameworks
<Bojhan> mpt: basicly everything in Drupal is modulair, so everything has to be consistent for abstraction purposes.
<mpt> in general
<Bojhan> mpt: I must say there is so much overlap with our situation, the sole diffrence is probally that recently we had these "outside" UX people contracted to fix the usability or UX of Drupal.
<mpt> ah, fun
<Bojhan> mpt: Well I think you know them leisa reichelt and mark bolton
<mpt> Bojhan, I met Leisa very briefly last week. I don't think I've met Mark.
<Bojhan> mpt: ahh, yhea so basicly they got hired by Acquia to work on stuff, a pretty wierd construction to begin with - but basicly the upcomming 2 months they will make radical proposals we need to give feedback on and at the end Acquia engineers will code it up
<mpt> That could be good in that they come at the task without being sullied by knowledge about why things are the way they are
<mpt> It could be risky in that they just dump some changes and run, without permanent developers changing their thinking
<Bojhan> mpt: defintly, I think there is great value in having an outside consultant, though I am constantly trying to battle the fundamental issues we are trying to solve they only see the symptons of
<Bojhan> mpt: So, do you see your team doing some kind of usability testing in the near future? I would assume, that such a large communtiy has the funds to sponsor such a thing, as it could greatly impact the momentum and focus on the interface? Or is that all run trough the Gnome project?
<mpt> Bojhan, a bit of both
<mpt> We're planning our own testing of Ubuntu-specific stuff, and the Gnome Foundation is also looking at running tests
<Bojhan> mpt: I must say running tests on opensource projects, is far more pleasing then any pay-able work. Since the people in the observation room and the participants have a very diffrent motivation
<Bojhan> mpt: We setup http://drupalusability.org/ after a test we did 2 months ago
<mpt> cool
<Bojhan> mpt: If you ever need help setting up something similair, give me a ping - since we bassicly have all the stuff laying around for any other opensource project to use
<mpt> Bojhan, thanks, I'll keep that in mind
<Bojhan> mpt: So have you been able to involve usability experts into the game, or is it still hard to attract any?
<mpt> Bojhan, but, er, what do you mean by "stuff" specifically? :-)
<Bojhan> mpt: Well as in the setup of the site, so clean, without content.
<Bojhan> mpt: and a lot of problems, we solved along the way in getting this out the community and intergrated part of the workflow
<mpt> ok
<Bojhan> mpt: basicly, we approached this kind of steve-krugy, saying
<Bojhan> these are the bunch of small issues, and those are the larger problems
<Bojhan> For 2# have you been able to pull from existing communities such as ixda?
<dobey> hrmm
<Nafallo> jesus christ compiz!
<Nafallo> 666m RES now
<dobey> i think you mean ANTI-jesus christ
<Nafallo> ;-)
<dobey> compiz is ok here
<dobey> which is surprising, given the resolution i'm running it at
<Nafallo> dobey: architecture? :-)
<dobey> firefox on the other hand, is 192M
<dobey> 32bit
<dobey> but my screen is 2048x1152 :)
<Nafallo> yeah. I've only heard this reported on 64-bit ;-)
<dobey> ah
<dobey> could be
<dobey> in which case i'm glad i'm not using 64-bit
<Nafallo> firefox is 400m RES and thunderbird 394m RES
<dobey> yeah, gecko sucks
<dobey> and webkit isn't really any better
<Nafallo> I'd say compiz suck currently ;-)
<dobey> well
<dobey> firefox also sucks on 32bit
<dobey> compiz is 29M RES for me
<dobey> so maybe you should install 32-bit :)
<Nafallo>   PID USER      PR  NI  VIRT  RES  SHR S %CPU %MEM    TIME+  COMMAND
<crdlb> compiz doesn't leak memory (at least not significantly)
<Nafallo>  3413 nafallo   20   0 1999m 667m 3672 S    0 17.5  15:01.75 compiz.real
<crdlb> it's the nviida  driver that causes that
<dobey> nvidia on 64-bit only i guess?
<johanbr> 58 meg res for me (on nvidia 64-bit)
<Nafallo> crdlb: dude... the nvidia driver wouldn't work on my intel chipset :-)
<Nafallo> making assumptions isn't helping ;-)
<mpt> Bojhan, not yet.
<dobey> Nafallo: i assume you need to install 32-bit instead :)
<crdlb> Nafallo: ok, then mesa is doing it :>
<Nafallo> dobey:
<Nafallo> Mem:   3914164k total,  3870588k used,    43576k free,     4628k buffers
<Nafallo> Swap:  4000144k total,   905416k used,  3094728k free,  1621460k cached
<crdlb> but that's the first time I've heard of it on !nvidia
<Nafallo> so no 32-bit either. I'd rather have the bug fixed personally :-)
<Nafallo> hehe. still ballooning :-P
<Nafallo> 2002m 669m 3668
<Nafallo> I wonder if this could be UXA...
<Nafallo> Ng: around? :-)
<Nafallo> Ng: so anyway. seen any issues with compiz using UXA rendering? I use it with extras if you could help me re-produce :-)
<Nafallo> oooh.
<Nafallo> red herring :-/
<Ng> Nafallo: what kinda issues?
<Nafallo> Ng: 20   0 2035m 679m 3664 S    0 17.8  15:11.76 compiz.real
<Nafallo> Ng: the memory leaking kind ;-)
<dobey> hi glatzor
<Ng> Nafallo: I definitely don't see that. Do you get it with default compiz settings?
<Nafallo> Ng: running w/ extra.
<Nafallo> Ng: hmm. you /are/ running x86_64, right?
<Ng> nope
<Nafallo> that's the culprit then :-P
<Nafallo> Ng: oh well. thanks anyway. feel free to run from a usbstick or whatever... ;-)
<glatzor> hello dobey
<dobey> i really should rewrite the check mode for distutils-extra
<kenvandine_wk> ok... so that is no fun
<kenvandine_wk> somehow my disk got whacked...
<seb128> chrisccoulson: hello, there?
<seb128> hey robert_ancell
<robert_ancell> seb128: hey seb, still here?
<seb128> robert_ancell: yes ;-) I tend to be around in the evening for one hour or two
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128
<huats> hey seb128
<james_w> hi everyone
<chrisccoulson> hi james_w
<james_w> huats: get any interesting mail today?
<huats> hey james_w !
<huats> YES !
<seb128> lut huats
<james_w> :-)
<seb128> everybody joining now ;-)
<huats> james_w: how are you ? it has been so long ?
<huats> james_w: already answered :)
<james_w> \o/
<james_w> huats: I'm good thanks, how are you?
<seb128> chrisccoulson: did you get any update about this vino-server being respawned in loop bug? do you think it's jaunty milestone material or not?
<huats> I am fine too :)
<huats> james_w: thanks
<james_w> glad to hear it
<huats> I am in Paris to attend Solutions Linux
<huats> a Linux event
<james_w> oh, cool
<james_w> oui, je connais
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - no update at the moment. the only trigger case i can think of seems quite unlikely, but the reporter of that bug seems to be sure he did not trigger it that way so I'm not sure if it should be milestoned or not really
<huats> james_w: c'est vrai... un francophone comme toi :)
<james_w> heh
<chrisccoulson> my trigger case was to manually start vino-server, then change the gconf key so gnome-session spawns a second instance, which immediately exits and starts this cycle
<chrisccoulson> but the reporter is saying he never manually started the first vino-server
<chrisccoulson> so i'm not sure really
<seb128> chrisccoulson: ok, I'm going through the milestoned bug, seems a medium priority, annoying case but not happening often apparently
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i think you're right
<seb128> chrisccoulson: maybe he got vino registered in the session or something ... but that's weird since we don't have session storing right now
<chrisccoulson> yeah, it's a bit strange
<seb128> chrisccoulson: otherwise are you looking for bugs to investigate or you are busy enough with other things right now?
<chrisccoulson> i can investigate some other bugs, but perhaps not this evening
<seb128> ok
<chrisccoulson> just looking at the vino source - it still uses GnomeClient, so it should be possible to make the respawning work correctly
<chrisccoulson> unliek with nautilus ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson: I just crossed bug #233913 if you are interested by having a look this week
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 233913 in nautilus "Gnome launcher drops http ? parameters (query strings) in URLs" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/233913
<chrisccoulson> i can take a look at that hopefully tomorrow
<seb128> chrisccoulson: oh and sorry for not really replying to those comments about the media icon in the new pulse capplet the other day
<seb128> chrisccoulson: I had to run to catch a plane
<seb128> thanks
<chrisccoulson> that's ok
<seb128> chrisccoulson: I think the issue is a minor one since the capplet is not installed by default anyway
<chrisccoulson> yeah, it is quite a minor issue
<seb128> changing the theme seems to be the easiest way
<seb128> but if that's not done for jaunty that no big deal
<chrisccoulson> i'm not sure why i couldn't get it to display the application icon though. maybe that's a limitation with pulseaudio
<chrisccoulson> changing the theme sounds good
<chrisccoulson> it's only a handful of icons
<seb128> right
<Ampelbein> seb128: could you give an example of a "non standard case" package update? so i can see what you mean and perhaps ask some questions.
<seb128> Ampelbein: I've no specific example but you mostly did update
<seb128> Ampelbein: that was to write something there ;-)
<Ampelbein> ah, ok. ;-)
<Ampelbein> btw, thanks for the testimonial
<seb128> Ampelbein: did you do library updates and checked if the shlibs need to be updated for example? did you do python packaging and check it's conform to the python policy?
<seb128> Ampelbein: did you do new packages or binary splits?
<Ampelbein> seb128: ok, thats something i will have a look for.
<Ampelbein> i tried a split of binary and -dev package. bug #326899
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 326899 in lighttpd "provide lighttpd-dev package" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/326899
<Ampelbein> i don't mind if it doesn't get accepted, was a good excercise to learn more about how packaging work
<seb128> good ;-)
<seb128> as said that was rather to write something there, most of the desktop updates are usually easy and I was not sure if you did non standard update changes
<seb128> ie do you now how to check that the symbols of a library changed?
<Ampelbein> but i think i need some guidance for library updates. and i'm sure there are people here to help.
<Ampelbein> no
<seb128> ok
<seb128> next time we have a lib to update I will think to you ;-)
<Ampelbein> cool.
<Ampelbein> i think i'll check the bugs tagged "packaging" and see if i can do some more ;-)
<seb128> good
<huats> seb128: I'll take care of the new anjuta
<seb128> huats: thanks
<dobey> seb128: can you sync the new tango-icon-theme from debian?
<seb128> dobey: what is your launchpad-id?
<dobey> seb128: dobey
<seb128> dobey: synced
<dobey> thanks
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-03-31
<seb128> ok, time to go to bed
<seb128> robert_ancell: do you have specific plans for the day?
<robert_ancell> seb128: trying to reproduce bug 349009... And then just general bug hunting
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 349009 in pidgin "pidgin crashed with SIGSEGV" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/349009
<seb128> ok thanks
<seb128> totem could do with some active bug triage if you want to have a go to it during the day
<robert_ancell> seb128: ok, will do
<seb128> there is no specific issue on my list right now so I think bug triage is a good plan for today ;-)
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> have a nice day, time to sleep here ;-)
<robert_ancell> good night!
<bryce> heya robert_ancell
<robert_ancell> bryce: hello
<robert_ancell> bryce: do you know much about X keyboard events?
<bryce> robert_ancell: a little
<robert_ancell> bryce: I'm looking at bug 300954 and how gnome-settings-daemon uses XGrabKey
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 300954 in gnome-control-center "[regression] Gnome, mouse locate-pointer config stops multimedia keys from working after Intrepid upgrade" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/300954
<robert_ancell> bryce: I'm just wondering if GNOME should be sniffing the ctrl key rather than stealing it?  Or if that is possible in X
<bryce> hmm
<bryce> robert_ancell: were you able to narrow in on what update led to the problem?  Appears there is a narrow enough window (Nov 14-22)
<bryce> robert_ancell: also, are you familiar with the new fangled hotkey troubleshooting guide?  (At http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Hotkeys/)
<robert_ancell> bryce: haven't tried that yet - good point I should look into that first.  Haven't seen the hotkeys, thanks.
<bryce> interesting that enabling the locate mouse pointer feature triggers it... that sounds really familiar
 * bryce ponders
<bryce> ok here's a wild guess
<bryce> we've found that with certain hardware, some hotkeys are "owned" by the mouse input device
<bryce> for whatever reason, the manufacturer didn't have a better place for them (since they're handled by ACPI) so stuff them into the mouse device
<bryce> perhaps this mouse pointer feature thingee is stealing the entire device
<bryce> and since those keys are keys, not mouse stuff, they aren't passed along properly
<bryce> robert_ancell: so... if my theory is right, this might be a tough thing to fix for intrepid
<robert_ancell> bryce: cool, thanks for the idea
<bryce> robert_ancell: I would suggest starting by familiarizing yourself with that troubleshooting guide, then speak with pitti and slangasek; I think the fixes can be had in certain acpi handling code.
<bryce> it likely is already fixed in jaunty, so maybe one of them knows what to look at backporting, if it definitely needs fixed in intrepid.
<robert_ancell> bryce: I can reproduce on my system in Jaunty
<robert_ancell> bryce: anyway, got to head out - thanks for the pointers, hopefully have some more idea by tomorrow :)
<bryce> robert_ancell: aha that's actually good!  So yes, follow the hotkeys troubleshooting guide and it'll help walk you through identifying where the error is showing up
<bryce> great, cya
<pitti> Good morning
<ajmitch> hi pitti
<pitti> hey ajmitch, how are you?
<ajmitch> pitti: good, sorry I got distracted :)
<pitti> hey seb128
<seb128> good morning pitti
<pitti> seb128: still remember me whining about gpg and seahorse yesterday?
<seb128> yes
<pitti> seb128: bug 352180
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 352180 in gpgme1.0 "libgpgme11 pulls in both gnupg and gnupg2" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/352180
<seb128> I've noticed issues too
<pitti> seb128: fixed, and won us 1.3 MB of CD space
<seb128> waouh!
<seb128> how much CD space do we have nowadays? ;-)
<pitti> GIBIBYTES!
<seb128> ;-)
 * Amaranth had to download an xubuntu livecd to do work on a computer today
<Amaranth> didn't have 3 hours to get the dvd :P
<seb128> how is xubuntu nowadays?
<Amaranth> well, half the panel fell over when I clicked on it
<Amaranth> Probably because libxfce4menu 4.6 doesn't support <MergeFile> and that's the first thing alacarte creates
<pitti> seb128: wow, we have 11 MB on i386 and 7 MB on amd64
<seb128> pitti: good good ;-)
<seb128> mvo: hey
<seb128> mvo: could you look at bug #344019?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 344019 in totem "update-alternatives: error or eof reading /var/lib/dpkg/alternatives/gnome-video-thumbnailer for update_mode ()" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/344019
<mvo> seb128: sure
<seb128> we get so many weird upgrade bugs that's annoying
<robert_ancell> mvo seb128: Bug thieves!  No, I was going to ask you guys about that one as I'm not an expert on update-alternatives
<seb128> hey robert_ancell, how did the bug triage day go?
<robert_ancell> seb128: slower than I hoped.  I've been trying to track down bug 300954 but not having a lot of luck.  And when I made changes to gnome-settings-daemon it kept crashing my X :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 300954 in gnome-control-center "[regression] Gnome, mouse locate-pointer config stops multimedia keys from working after Intrepid upgrade" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/300954
<seb128> urg
<seb128> bad X, no cookie
<robert_ancell> what do people think about merging bugs, I've been looking at bug 346664 and bug 323649 -
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 346664 in totem "Youtube Handle '404 Not Found' properly" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/346664
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 323649 in totem "Totem Movie Player in Ubuntu 8.10, opening saved Youtube playlists: "Could Not Open Location; you might not have permission to play the file."" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/323649
<robert_ancell> they're both due to totem-youtube not being able to download links.  But there's no way totem can tell the difference.
<seb128> looking
<robert_ancell> I was thinking of pushing upstream as "error message is misleading/confusing"
<seb128> agreed
<seb128> you can duplicate those and upstream the error message not being clear
 * robert_ancell finds seb128 a good bouncing board
<seb128> lol
<seb128> did you figure what commit broke the g-s-d pointer thing?
<robert_ancell> seb128: no, I tried rolling back g-s-d but it didn't seem to fix it
<seb128> robert_ancell: weird
<robert_ancell> seb128: it's also weird as I can reproduce it but I find the keys work maybe 5% of the time so there's some weird race going on
<seb128> we should just drop this locate pointer thing ;-)
<robert_ancell> does anyone know in what module the subtitles get rendered in totem?
<seb128> what do you mean? that's a plugin there
<robert_ancell> totem or gstreamer?
<seb128> the video rendering is done using gstreamer
<robert_ancell> and that includes subtitles? or are they overlaid by totem?
<seb128> there is python code in totem to get the subtitles
<seb128> not sure about the on screen part, likely using some gstreamer pipeline for that
<seb128> I've not looked at this code yet
<seb128> ok, I did catch up with my bugmails already
<seb128> that was quick today
<seb128> robert_ancell: you didn't flood it with triaged totem bugs as I expected ;-)
<robert_ancell> seb128: i tried!! :P
<seb128> robert_ancell: useful hint, triage by newer bugs first listing only new, confirmed and triaged not sent upstream yet
<seb128> robert_ancell: that gives you a decent list of what needs to be triaged
<robert_ancell> seb128: through "advanced search"?  I've been trying to sort the columns
<seb128> yes
<seb128> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/totem/+bugs?advanced=1
<seb128> select "newest first" in the combo
<seb128> check new confirmed triaged
<seb128> and at the bottom of the page
<seb128> "Show bugs that need to be forwarded to an upstream bug tracker "
<seb128> "Show bugs that are not known to affect upstream "
<seb128> you can probably do a smart bookmark for that url
<seb128> with the package name replaced by a keyword
<seb128> so you can list easily what is triage for whatever package
<seb128> didrocks: hello
<seb128> didrocks: do you think you could have a go to bug #182345? it's supposed to be fixed in svn so a backport would be nice there
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 182345 in nautilus "nautilus crashed with SIGSEGV in gconf_client_remove_dir()" [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/182345
<seb128> robert_ancell: we usually assign desktop bugs to "desktop-bugs", not very important but we got used to that, it makes those lists in the +bugs page for the desktop-bugs team on launchpad
<seb128> so if you could do the same ... ;-)
<seb128> robert_ancell: oh and you might want to subscribe to upstream bugs when you add a patch, ie http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=576022 got some new comments
<ubottu> Gnome bug 576022 in gst-mixer "gst-mixer shows disabled mixer tracks" [Minor,Assigned]
<robert_ancell> night all
<asac> ArneGoetje: there? can you give me the ffox xpi's you last imported?
<asac> i need to update them in on rookery as well
<pitti> seb128: argh, you gave me a hard time with notify-osd
<seb128> re
<seb128> pitti: how so?
<pitti> seb128: it seems you didn't merge from trunk when updating to notify-osd, and didn't use bzr bd
<pitti> I wondered why stracciatella-session broke
<seb128> I don't know about all those things
<pitti> and noticed that our .service patch was missing
<seb128> I take tarballs
<seb128> bzr get
<seb128> copy the debian directory and use that
<pitti> ok, sorry
<pitti> ah, I see
<seb128> I think I start disliking bzr again
<seb128> everybody has a different workflow
<seb128> and it's such annoying to figure what you are supposed to do
<seb128> such -> so
<pitti> well, it's the bzr bd workflow as documented on the wiki
<seb128> we only have the debian directory in bzr as documented on the wiki
<seb128> I don't know how to magically switch from a checkout which has a source which is not the source we want to use
<seb128> ie why having everything in bzr if we just use the debian directory over tarballs?
<seb128> or should I not use tarballs but run autogen.sh by hand?
<seb128> and then bzr-buildpackage?
<pitti> so, for the 0.9.7 update:
<pitti> bzr merge lp:notify-osd
<pitti> ^ trunk
<pitti> dch
<pitti> debcommit
<pitti> then dch -r/debcommit -r
<pitti> and bzr bd -S
<seb128> hum
<seb128> and that will use the tarball automagically?
<pitti> yes, if changelog says 0.9.7, bzr will fetch the orig.tar.gz from LP
<seb128> I still understand why we have the full source in bzr is we use tarballs or if we should not use tarballs but trunk
<pitti> I added a working debian/watch
<seb128> +don't
<pitti> well, I use the orig.tar.gz because the DX guys publish them
<pitti> so I don't see a reason why not to use them
<seb128> I would like much better if we had only the debian directory in bzr
<seb128> that would be much less confusing
<pitti> but having the full source in bzr makes it easier to merge/cherrypick changes
<pitti> seb128: I see; I'm not objecting to debian/ only
<seb128> then you have changes out of the debian directory
<seb128> which I try to avoid usually
<pitti> yeah, there are some, like our stracciatella fix
<seb128> that's a totally different workflow than everything else
<seb128> we usually add patches in the debian directory
<pitti> seb128: when I started the branch, we didn't get frequent upstream releases yet
<seb128> rather than messing with the diff.gz
<pitti> so it was painful to only use tarballs
<seb128> we never did snapshot to jaunty either ...
<pitti> we did in the beginning
<seb128> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/notify-osd has only -0ubuntu<n> uploads but ok
<pitti> yeah, some without orig.tar.gz
<seb128> anyway sorry for the mess
<pitti> seb128: no problem, not your fault
<pitti> it was good to understand where the confusion came from
<seb128> I think I will just avoid touching it and let you deal with it so I don't break anything next time
<pitti> I'm so used to native packages and working with VCS that I'm not aware of the problems
<seb128> or try what you described before and see if I confuse somebody again ;-)
<pitti> so if you prefer, we can convert this to debian/ only
<seb128> well, I will try what you described before
<pitti> but given that our long-term goal is actually into the other direction (full source in bzr), that would feel weird
<seb128> maybe you could add that to DesktopTeam/Bzr
<seb128> "cases when the full source is in bzr"
<pitti> will do
<seb128> thanks!
<seb128> I was not aware of "bzr bd" which is what confused me there I think
<seb128> I was copying the debian directory by hand in an unpacked tarball...
<pitti> it's bzr-builddeb
<seb128> well for me you should be in the source you want to build ;-)
<seb128> not in a directory which has an autogen and no configure
<seb128> I didn't figure it would get the tarball and not use the bzr source
<pitti> yeah, sorry, it's merge mode
<pitti> much like debian/ only
<seb128> I've learnt something today ;-)
 * pitti hugs seb128
 * seb128 hugs pitti
<pitti> seb128: we can avoid autoconfiscation because the orig.tar.gz has them, so in the merged package it's all there
<james_w> pitti: I was a bit confused when you set up a package as merge mode, but made it full source. I don't understand what that buys you.
<seb128> well as said I though it would do the equivalent of "debuild" in the bzr get dir
<seb128> ie there is no configure there
<pitti> james_w: well, it's "full source" in the "trunk" sense, but not in the "orig.tar.gz with autoconfiscation" sense
<pitti> james_w: it's convenient for me to being able to just merge new versions/fixes from trunk
<pitti> james_w: you think I should avoid this mode?
<james_w> hmm
<james_w> which package was it, I'd like to look at the branches
<pitti> oh, lasagne is ready .. /me -> lunch
<james_w> enjoy :-)
<pitti> james_w: lp:~ubuntu-desktop/notify-osd/ubuntu/
<pitti> james_w: so perhaps it's cleaner to not use merge mode, and do autoconfiscation ourselves? and ignore upstream orig.tar.gz?
<pitti> james_w: what way would you recommend if upstream has a bzr trunk, and releases tarballs?
<james_w> you want to use the "merge-upstream" command
<james_w> you give that the upstream branch and the tarball and it merges them in
<james_w> you end up with 3 branches in essence, the pure upstream trunk, the Ubuntu "upstream" branch, which corresponds to the .orig.tar.gz, so contains the autoconf stuff
<james_w> and then the packaging branch
<james_w> and since Jaunty pristine-tar is used, so you can build the package without download the tarball using the watch file even
<james_w> unfortunately we don't have good docs on it yet, as it's quite new, but it is the way I would recommend, as it most closely represents what is happening, and gives you the flexibility to cherry-pick etc.
<james_w> like seb128 some people don't like changing things outside of debian/, but you don't have to do that really.
<james_w> I disagree, but I can understand the reasons
<james_w> seb128: on an unrelated note, I have a dual screen issue. When the second screen is placed "below" the primary one, fullscreen apps end up underneath the bottom panel.
<james_w> it seems that they don't detect the width of the panel as usual, and draw to the bottom of the primary screen
<james_w> do you know what component would be at fault there?
<james_w> it happens with both compiz and metacity fwiw
<seb128> james_w: sorry I was writting my activity report for the week ;-)
<james_w> np
<seb128> no real idea about this one, multiscreen is still quite buggy, I would say either gtk or the wms there though
<pitti> re
<pitti> james_w: ah, thanks; I'll read about merge-upstream
<pitti> james_w: so far I was just using the "merge" workflow in jockey: fix three bugs in trunk, merge into ubuntu, debuild, done
<pitti> james_w: with that I didn't need to do a new upstream release for every fix, and neither did I have to mess with debian/patches
<james_w> yep
<pitti> I think I just adopted this workflow 1:1 to notify-osd
<pitti> and I would *really* like to avoid getting back to using a patch system if we already have everything in bzr
<pitti> that would be so backwards..
<james_w> I agree
<pitti> james_w: while we are at it, is there a reason why I can do "bzr bd -S", but have to do "bzr bd -- -b"?
<james_w> not really a good one
<pitti> ok; it's just a tiny nitpick anyway
<james_w> "-S" is implemented as an option to bd
<james_w> "--" means pass everything else to debuild
<pitti> right, I know
<pitti> my q was why -S is passed, but not -b
<james_w> I didn't want to implement every debuild option
<pitti> yeah, true that
<seb128> james_w: the gnome-panel multimonitor change would be nice to have I think if you want to give it some testing and work on a debdiff ;-)
<james_w> -S because that was the first that was added
<james_w> so as I said, not a good one
<james_w> I'd like to extend bzr to just ignore options it doesn't recognise for specific commands, which would make "--" go away
<james_w> seb128: I'll have a look
<seb128> james_w: thanks
<seb128> pitti:
<seb128>   File "/usr/lib/python2.6/UserDict.py", line 22, in __getitem__
<seb128>     raise KeyError(key)
<seb128> KeyError: 'Stacktrace
<seb128> pitti: that's the 3 retracer crash on a similar error since yesterday do you know what's going on?
<pitti> hm, not really
<pitti> seb128: do you have a minute to file a bug against apport with the output and the crashed bug?
<seb128> yes
<pitti> merci
<pitti> please assign it to me
<seb128> will do, thanks
 * pitti hugs seb128
<pitti> sorry for all those new retracer problems
<pitti> seems whenever I fix one, the next one comes out of thin air
 * seb128 hugs pitti
<seb128> pitti: not your fault
<seb128> bug #352331 assigned to you
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 352331 in apport "retracers crash on "KeyError: 'Stacktrace'" errors sometimes" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/352331
<pitti> I think the dup db lock timeouts are gone for good, consolidation just takes one hour now
<seb128> excellent
<pitti> I need to find a day to switch those over to launchpadlib
<pitti> to fix that for good, and consolidation only taking like 5 minutes
 * pitti args at p-lp-bugs
<pitti> seb128: thanks
<seb128> urg
<seb128> there is still quite some backlog
<seb128> around 150 bugs waiting for i386 retracing
<seb128> pitti: I rm the lock just to see if it crashes again on the same issue
<pitti> if it happens again, just untag the bug
<pitti> seb128: I need to run out for about 2 hours in 15 minutes, so I'm afraid I won't have time for retracer shepherding today
<seb128> yeah, that's what I did for the other ones yesterday ;-)
<seb128> pitti: that's ok, I can just untag those which are an issue
<seb128> pitti: hum, at what time is the meeting today european time?
<seb128> did we stick to same european or same utc time?
<pitti> seb128: 18:30
<seb128> ok
<pitti> I have an agenda topic "meeting time"
<pitti> for now we should stick to the wiki which says 1630 UTC
<seb128> good thanks
<seb128> yeah, usually we just used to shift the meeting time
<seb128> but let's discuss that during the meeting
<seb128> we might also want to reconsider the current one is really late or early for robert_ancell
<pitti> right
<seb128> mvo: bug #344019 got a reply
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 344019 in totem "update-alternatives: error or eof reading /var/lib/dpkg/alternatives/gnome-video-thumbnailer for update_mode ()" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/344019
<james_w> that patch doesn't apply it seems
<james_w> where was that page with the GNOME patches from suse?
<james_w> perhaps it depends on one of those
<james_w> ah, http://tmp.vuntz.net/opensuse-packages/browse.py
<mvo> seb128: thanks, strange, that is a pretty unclear report, either a dpkg bug, the user removing stuff in the file or something strange in our packaging scripts
<seb128> mvo: or local disk corruption or something similar ...
<mvo> seb128: yes
<seb128> mvo: want to reassign the bug somewhere else?
<mvo> not sure, maybe dpkg - but then those bugs do not get that much attention :/
<seb128> mvo: because you think he will get higher attention on totem? ;-)
<seb128> I still think we should have an installation-issues components
<seb128> at least there would be a place for people to triage those
<seb128> nobody is going to chase them on random packages and maintainers will not care about weird dpkg issues and just ignore it too
<mvo> true
<seb128> anyway I will let you do what you think best and stand on my "let's ignore weird dpkg issues" ;-)
<pitti> off for ~ 2 hours, see you later; if anyone has an urgent question, please ring my mobile
<chrisccoulson> i have to admit - i often have no idea what do with those installation issue bug reports
<mvo> *gar* bug #352317 *gar*
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 352317 in b43-fwcutter "upgrade is aborted (from Ubuntu 8.10 to 9.04)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/352317
<tseliot> seb128: have you seen federico recently? The final version of my patch for this bug is ready: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=568160
<ubottu> Gnome bug 568160 in libgnome-desktop "Gnome Settings daemon causes high CPU usage with an expensive call" [Major,Unconfirmed]
<seb128> chrisccoulson: same here ;-)
<seb128> tseliot: no I didn't, is that something we should use?
<tseliot> seb128: we have a previous version that works well in Ubuntu. This one is ready to be accepted by upstream though
<seb128> tseliot: ok good ;-)
<seb128> good job!
<tseliot> thanks :-)
<rickspencer3> seb128: my calendar got all screwed up this week for some reason
<rickspencer3>  some appointments are accounting for dls, and some aren't :(
<seb128> rickspencer3: dst?
<rickspencer3> yes
<seb128> rickspencer3: I'm not picking just tell what about for our call
<rickspencer3> in any case, is our call in 1 hour or two hours?
<seb128> as you want
<seb128> I'm available for any of those times
<dobey> pitti: ping
<rickspencer3> calc: ping?
<asac> hi rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> hi asac
<seb128> vuntz: is there a way to have an autostart desktop used but not listed in the capplet dialog?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - if i understand you correctly, you can just specify it in /desktop/gnome/session/required_components if you don't want it to appear in the capplet
<chrisccoulson> of course, if i've misunderstood you, please ignore me ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson: we have this /etc/xdg/autostart/indicator-applet.py which is there for upgrade reasons
<seb128> I'm not sure if that should be listed in the capplet or not
<seb128> mpt: ^ opinion?
<chrisccoulson> you could give it a desktop file in /usr/share/applications, then list it in /desktop/gnome/session/required_components
<chrisccoulson> just like with nautilus and gnome-panel
<chrisccoulson> it won't show up in the capplet then
<mpt> seb128, what's "the capplet dialog"?
<mpt> (... what's a capplet?)
<seb128> mpt: gnome-session-properties
<dobey> we need something like autostart, but for first-run
<seb128> chrisccoulson: thanks for the hint
<seb128> dobey: right
<dobey> or rather, something more like the RunOnce thing in windows
<mpt> seb128, I'm sorry, I don't understand the problem
<mpt> seb128, what does indicator-applet.py do?
<seb128> mpt: in the gnome-session-properties you have an "Indicator applet" line
<seb128> mpt: it does add the indicator applet after upgrade to the gnome-panel configuration
<seb128> mpt: we got a bug pointing that this entry was not translatable, which made me thing we should maybe not have listed at all or at least have a better description for it there
<mpt> seb128, I agree it should not be listed
<mpt> the same way gnome-panel itself isn't
<seb128> mpt: ok thanks
<james_w> seb128_: wow, thanks. That was quick
<seb128_> james_w: you're welcome, thanks for working on it ;-)
<james_w> seb128_: would you be willing to provide sponsor feedback on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JamesWestby/CoreDevApplication ?
<james_w> don't worry if you are not
<asac> my panel died ;)
<seb128_> james_w: I will but not right now
<james_w> thanks
<seb128_> you're welcome
<asac> doesnt even restart ;)
<asac> hmm ... seems to be still alive process wise; but not displaying
<seb128> asac: does it crash? gdb is your friend there ;-)
<asac> seb128: i dont hink i can reproduce
<asac> it happened when hitting enter in pinentry
<seb128> what did you do?
<seb128> weird
<asac> let me attach to the running process
<seb128> does alt-f1 or alt-f2 does something?
<asac> gdb shows me that the only thing left is a running mainloop
<asac> no alt-f1 doesnt do anything
<asac> nor f2/3/4
<asac> oh
<seb128> weird
<asac> sorry
<asac> alt-f1 opens menu ;)
<seb128> the mainloop seems to be normal running case
<asac> seems something had the focus before
<asac> so yeah. its invisible ;)
<seb128> could be your wm or theme or something
<asac> alt-f2 works too
<asac> window decorations still exist
<seb128> it seems to be running
<seb128> or those would not work
<asac> yeah sure
<asac> the process is reawlly there i see it ;)
<seb128> does the menu open in the middle of nowhere?
<asac> herh
<asac> so i can even click it
<asac> its just transparent ;)
<asac> metacity bug i guess
<seb128> could be
<seb128> using the composite manager there?
<asac> yeah
<asac> i think its the second time that happened to me
<seb128> I would blame it then
<asac> the other incident was weeks ago
<asac> does metacity log somewhere?
<asac> just .xsession-erors?
<seb128> just .xsession-errors I think yes
<asac> seb128: http://paste.ubuntu.com/141445/
<asac> unfortunately i saw a audacious crash before (20 minutes)
<asac> so i think its not the event that killed the panel
<seb128> I think those warning are frequent and don't lead to such issues usually
<seb128> I would really blame the composite manager there
<asac> any forensics we can do?
<asac> or just let it go? ;)
<asac> asac     24713     1  0 Mar28 ?        00:44:58 metacity --replace
<seb128> not that I know
<asac> does metacity usually run with 1 as parent process?
<seb128> let it go I would say, at least I'm not interested to debug it, enough to do without debugging experimental compositors ;-)
<asac> hey. without compisiting manager the notifications are really a regression ;)
<calc> rick wants to know when do you think the meeting is today? :)
<seb128> I doubt that, gnome-session is starting it
 * calc notes that when it normally is scheduled is not what it shows on the calendar
<asac> calc: 1h 15 minutes
<seb128> asac: no, meeting is in 2h15
<asac> so 4:30 UTC i think
<calc> normallly it is 16:30 UTC which is 2h15m from now
<asac> seb128: err. not according to platform calendar
<seb128> asac: we are utc+2 now
<seb128> asac: 4:30utc is in 2 hours
<asac> seb128: well. we usually keep it
<calc> however the calendar is screwed up apparently and is shifted due to euro dst starting
<asac> seb128: i mean we adjust to daylight saving
<seb128> asac: we didn't this time, pitti added that to the agenda
<asac> the meeting is definitly in 1:15 according to calendar here ... not for you?
<calc> we can have it either time (i think) rick just wants to know what people think about it
<seb128> asac: I asked pitti some hours ago and he said 4:30utc
<seb128> asac: which is 18:30 local
<asac> he should look at his calendar
<asac> pitti: ^^
<seb128> asac: I say the calendar is buggy ;-)
<asac> heh
<calc> asac: i think rick's point about it is whether we like what the calendar says or should we fix it, since it appears to not actually be based off GMT/UTC but london time(?)
<asac> it does the right thing ... we always did it that way. the base is london time not UTC ;)
<seb128> I don't care either way
<asac> most folks have daylight saving
<asac> so using london time makes the meeting a constant thing (except for those that dont have daylight issues)
<seb128> as said pitti said we stick to 4:30utc today
<seb128> and we will discuss it during the meeting
<asac> yeah. he should have sent a mail too then ;) ... now i know
<seb128> we need to discuss it anyway it's middle of the night for robert_ancell
<rickspencer3> ok
<asac> hmm. thought that was understood before ;)
<seb128> so we might night to pick a different time
<asac> ok. lets check then
<seb128> asac: well the issue with your constant london time is ... do you expect all the calendar events to shift the same way, ie weekly calls, etc
<asac> seb128: given that google calendar does the wrong thing, i would think that everything does that shift yes.
<cody-somerville> seb128, Can you make the gnome terminal not show up in Xfce anymore?
<cody-somerville> doh
 * asac kills his gnome-panel now
<asac> \o/ resurrection ;)
<asac> magic
<seb128> what did you do?
<seb128> nothing it just came back?
<cody-somerville> seb128, Can you make the gnome terminal not show up in Xfce anymore?
<seb128> cody-somerville: no
<cody-somerville> Whys?!
<seb128> because I don't maintain that software?
<seb128> open a bug or a sponsor request having a debdiff on launchpad
<cody-somerville> You don't maintain the gnome terminal package?
<seb128> no
<seb128> we have several people in this team, I'm not looking to this one for a while
<asac> cody-somerville: feel free to give me the debdiff
<seb128> see the recent uploaders
<cody-somerville> asac, okay :)
<asac> cody-somerville: please with bug and main-sponsors subscription though
 * asac karma whore
 * cody-somerville nods.
<pitti> hey dobey
<pitti> seb128, asac: well, our wiki says 1630 UTC, so I just assume that
<rickspencer3> pitti: good point, the wiki shall be the canonical reference
<kenvandine_wk> rickspencer3: I haven't been able to get pidgin to crash since our call yesterday
<rickspencer3> kenvandine_wk: that's good news
<kenvandine_wk> is it working for you now?
<rickspencer3> yes
<rickspencer3> kenvandine_wk: starting yesterday
 * kenvandine_wk isn't happy about it... damn thing crashed for me 3 times... and magically healed itself
<kenvandine_wk> although... i never noticed until you pointed it out :)
<seb128> kenvandine_wk: do you watch the ekiga bugs?
<kenvandine_wk> seb128: not specifically...
<seb128> ok
<seb128> would you be interested to give an hand on triaging those?
<seb128> the bug list has lot of crashers since the 3.2 update
<seb128> would be nice to have somebody using ekiga looking at some and sending that upstream if required
<kenvandine_wk> sure
<cody-somerville> asac, bug #352451
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 352451 in gnome-terminal "Please sponsor gnome-terminal 2.26.0-0ubuntu2" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/352451
<asac> cody-somerville: why not "dontshowin"?
<cody-somerville> Either or meets my purpose. However, I imagine the situation is similar in other desktop environments.
<rickspencer3> kenvandine_wk: pidgin seems to working perfectly normally for me now
 * rickspencer3 tries to repro pidgin bug
<mvo> rickspencer3: any luck in reproducing the restart required icon that apparently appread last friday? or more informaton?
<rickspencer3> mvo: nope
<rickspencer3> no one could repro, so no bug
<mvo> heh :) ok
<rickspencer3> Desktop team meeting?
<rickspencer3> mvo: I'll let sabdfl know
<seb128> rickspencer3: phone call rather and meeting in one hour no?
<seb128> rickspencer3: it's 15:30utc
<rickspencer3> d'ph!
<mvo> rickspencer3: ok, if more info becomes available, I'm happy to debug that further
<rickspencer3> what a morning!
<mvo> rickspencer3: but my look at the code does not showed anything
<seb128> mvo: is update-manager auto opening after using synaptic when there is pending uploads a known bug?
<mvo> seb128: no, what is the chain of events there? you open synaptic, apply changes and late u-m auto-opens?
<seb128> mvo: open synaptic, install a specific upgrade using it and then when the update is installed I get update-manager auto-open
 * mvo tests
<mvo> seb128: if that is reproducable for you, could you please open a terminal and run "killall update-notifier; update-notifier --debug-inotify --debug-updates"  and send me the logs?
<seb128> mvo: I guess I will not get it today, I had it yesterday on my desktop which was not updated for > 7 days since I was in London for a week
<seb128> mvo: I will try to get details next time it happens
<seb128> mvo: the > 7 days is just a guess
<mvo> seb128: right, but the version running there was recent? or was the desktop not restarted for some time too?
<mvo> seb128: I can check what version exactly added the code that also checks the timestamps for the last dpkg operations
<mvo> seb128: but it should not auto-open if any dpkg operation ran within the last 7 days (unless there are security updates pending)
<james_w> is anyone else seeing tracker-indexer running again?
<james_w> I presume it is still disabled by default
<seb128> james_w: it's not installed by default in jaunty
<james_w> ah
<james_w> well I still have it installed
<seb128> mvo: sorry I was away for some minutes
<james_w> but it never ran until recently as far as I know
<seb128> mvo: I did boot my desktop yesterday after a week being away, there was too many updates available to download everything in one go so I did open synaptic and picked some
<seb128> mvo: and update-manager started auto-opening after each round of installs (I did "select, install" a bunch of times on series of packages)
<seb128> james_w: it's running but should not be indexing
<james_w> well, it seems to be indexing as well, suddenly takes a lot of CPU and freezes evolution
<seb128> james_w: ie it's in the process list but should not take your disk under ios load
<mvo> seb128: what version of update-notifier was running? a older one?
<seb128> mvo: I would say a 10 days old one, I upgraded before going to London
<seb128> mvo: don't bother to much I will keep an eye on it and ping you if it happens again
<seb128> mvo: just curious what timestamp doesn't it watch? ie what should I trick if I want to recreate the > 7 days situations?
<mvo> seb128: 10 days should have the right version
<mvo> seb128: hrm, I check the code
<bryce> morning
<seb128> hello bryce
<pitti> hey bryce
<rickspencer3> Desktop team meeting in 5 minutes (for real this time :) )
<rickspencer3> pitti: mvo: thanks for digging into davidm's upgrade breakage
<pitti> just read davidm's last response
<pitti> weird
<rickspencer3> I was hoping that we'd get at least one computer that could be well diagnosed
<pitti> I haven't run out of questions yet :)
<rickspencer3> oh well
<rickspencer3> hopefully it won't turn out to be an uninteresting corner case :)
<rickspencer3> let's go
<ArneGoetje> hi all
 * pedro_ waves
<rickspencer3> hi desktopppers!
<asac> hi
<calc> hi
<rickspencer3> hi pedro
 * kenvandine_wk was planning to upgrade his intrepid VM to jaunty today... but my partition table got whacked :/
<bryce> heya
<rickspencer3> interesting greeting from kenvandine_wk there
<seb128> hello
<kenvandine_wk> :)
<kenvandine_wk> i spent my evening reinstalling jaunty on my new laptop... after an apparent ext4 bug
<rickspencer3> so I'm sensing that team members are feeling pretty good about the beta, but that also team members have some tasks that they are anxious to take care of
<calc> kenvandine_wk: that's why i am staying away from ext4 until 2.6.30+
<kenvandine_wk> calc: yeah... i will file the bug anyway :)
<kenvandine_wk> it was *nasty*
<rickspencer3> pursuant to that, I'd like to see if we can compress the meeting to 30 minutes, and move some of the agenda items to email/wiki
<rickspencer3> *ahem*
<rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2009-03-31
<rickspencer3> so may I suggest that we follow up on Desktop Summit, Karmic Sprint Dates, and Meeting time outside of the meeting?
<pitti> desktop summit is quick
<pitti> whoops, sorry
<pitti> ignore me, mixed that up
<pitti> +1
<rickspencer3> k
<rickspencer3> pedro_: Hug/Bug Day?
<pedro_> yeap, just passing the word
<pedro_> The Thursday 02 April the Ubuntu BugSquad is going to celebrate a hug day based on xorg-server and xserver-xorg-video-intel for helping out bryce with the bugs he's getting there
<bryce> \o/
<pedro_>  bryce polished the page (thanks!) and there's already people working on it as you can see per https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20090402 so please feel free to join us if you have some time during that day
<pedro_> also, if you want us to organize a hug day to help you with the bugs in the product you're responsible for
<pedro_> just contact me so we can start to organize it
<rickspencer3> btw ... bryce's triaging guidelines are really specific and actionable
<pitti> these pages rock indeed
<rickspencer3> pedro_: thanks for organizing this
<rickspencer3> anything else we should/could do to make the day a success?
<pedro_> rickspencer3: always a pleasure
<pedro_> yeah, if you have a blog added to planet ubuntu would be nice to post something there
<pedro_> same for identi.ca or twitter, etc
<bryce> pedro_: thanks, I've got high hopes we'll make a good dent in the triaging work with this
<rickspencer3> ACTION: everyone to blog on hug day
<pedro_> bryce: you're welcome, i'm sure it's going to rock ;-)
<rickspencer3> next is linux foundations summit
<rickspencer3> pitti: ...
<pitti> I'll be in San Francisco at the LF summit next week
<rickspencer3> ?
<pitti> thus, if you need anything urgent from me, please mail me ASAP, so that I can get it done this week
<pitti> also, if you want me to talk to anyone there, mail me as well
<pitti> [done, just announcement]
<rickspencer3> kewl
<rickspencer3> anyone else going to be there?
<pitti> not from desktop, but from other teaks
<pitti> kirkland, rtg at least
<pitti> davidm as well, I believe
<rickspencer3> oh
<rickspencer3> cool
<rickspencer3> next is Release Bugs/Release Status
<pitti> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus is pretty current
<pitti> kudos everyone, we made great progress
<pitti> I don't have anything which needs discussion in the meeting
<rickspencer3> okay
<pitti> except..
<pitti> bryce: for the 8x5 one, do we have a "last resort" fallback?
<pitti> bryce: could we transition those folks to vesa, if we don't find a better solution?
<bryce> pitti: yeah I've got a "Disable DRI" patch ready in this case
<pitti> ah, it's only DRI?
<bryce> it's in my ppa.
<pitti> I've been running without DRI since this morning as well
<pitti> definitively better than vesa
<pitti> bryce: and we can disable that option based on chipset family?
<pitti> i. e. "<= 855" or so?
<bryce> we may also need to disable 2D accel (NoAccel)
<ArneGoetje> 855 works fine with UXA
<bryce> some report that's necessary to get video
<pitti> ok, rest is for #u-devel, I think
<bryce> however, with no DRI and NoAccel, the driver is barely better than vesa, so those are sort of the nuclear option...
<pitti> I can sleep better now, knowing that we have *some* fallback to not completely hose upgrades for those folks
<rickspencer3> right
<rickspencer3> I posted the current set of targeted bugs to the wiki
<rickspencer3> today, only bryce, pitti, and asac have any that are targetted
<rickspencer3> I suppose if anyone sees one that they could help out with, that could be appreciated
<rickspencer3> Everyone sent an activity report, so thanks for that
<pitti> kenvandine_wk: could you go through the indicator test cases and file bugs for everything that doesn't work yet?
<kenvandine_wk> pitti: doing that now
<pitti> I'm a bit concerned about i-a, it still has lots of weirdness
<pitti> kenvandine_wk: cool, thanks
<rickspencer3> pitti: yes
<seb128> rickspencer3: I've several desktop bugs milestoned, not blocker for jaunty but "would be nice to fix" sort of bugs
<kenvandine_wk> i think it has less weirdness today than yesterday :)
<seb128> pitti: I'm a bit concerned about notify-osd being crash land for some users too
<asac> a genle reminder to post activities in proper wiki format ;)
<pitti> kenvandine_wk: one of them being that I still see two icons (pidgin and m-i)
<asac> gentle
<seb128> asac: what is wiki format? I don't use wiki enough to know
<asac> kenvandine_wk: and seb128
<asac> seb128: you just need a space before the *
<asac> then you are done ;)
<seb128> ok, I can do that
<kenvandine_wk> pitti: you mean pidgin icon in the notifcation area?
<pitti> speaking about that, did anyone figure out how to break lines in itemizations in a way that moin doesn't consider a line break in the output?
<kenvandine_wk> asac: i did that in my email to rickspencer3
<pitti> kenvandine_wk: yes
<kenvandine_wk> pitti: that doesn't happen in a fresh install
<asac> kenvandine_wk: you didnt have spaces before the "*" right?
<pitti> so far I avoid line breaks in * (it worked in old moin, but not in ucrrent)
<rickspencer3> no worries, I normally go through and clean it up a little :)
<rickspencer3> seb128: in terms of milestoned but not targetted bugs
<kenvandine_wk> asac: i did before emailing it :)
<rickspencer3> we have quite a few of those
<asac> kenvandine_wk: ok ... then its probably a rickspencer3 bug :-P
<rickspencer3> hey!
<rickspencer3> I just copy and pasted strait in
<rickspencer3> :)
<kenvandine_wk> i think evo "html'd it "
<asac> kenvandine_wk: bah. disable html ;)
<rickspencer3> kenvandine_wk: please don't use html format in your emails!
<rickspencer3> in any case, back to work here ...
<asac> ack
<rickspencer3> I see 15 bugs that are not targetted, but are milestoned for 9.04 (or 9.04 beta) and are importance = High
<asac> you have a link at hand?
<rickspencer3> I presume that these are the priority bugs, right?
<rickspencer3> asac: sorry, I use a hand-rolled for this
<asac> i was told to do that when bugs are opportunities but shouldnt hold back release
<rickspencer3> asac: I think that's what it means if they are not targeted for the release, yes
 * rickspencer3 pastes bug table into the wiki
<asac> great. thanks
<pitti> milestones on non-targetted bugs are for personal prioritization, yes
<pitti> only jaunty-targetted bugs are on the release team radar
<rickspencer3> any other business?
<seb128> not really for the meeting
<rickspencer3> if not, please keep in mind that Final Freeze is April 9th
<asac> ok
<seb128> but /etc/gdm/locale.conf could be updated, not sure if we have a reference list of locales somewhere
<rickspencer3> as we run up to that, I will be striving to minimize distractions
<seb128> we have 2 bugs about locales not being available in gdm right now
<rickspencer3> so please ping me if you need help with something, as I will be predisposed to inaction
<seb128> ArneGoetje, pitti: could you have a look to that?
 * rickspencer3 sorry to stomp on seb128
<pitti> seb128: /usr/share/i18n/SUPPORTED
<pitti> seb128: looking at the april 9 date I probably won't have time for that any more
<seb128> ok
<seb128> ArneGoetje: how busy are you?
<seb128> I guess I could try adding that to my todolist but I'm not sure I will come to it before freeze either
<ArneGoetje> seb128: I ried already to add the crh entry manually and recompile the package, but that didn't help. So, maybe the bug is somewhere else.
<pitti> you don't need recompilation for testing, just changing the /etc/ file should work
<seb128> weird
<seb128> ok, I will try to have a look
<rickspencer3> sounds like you guys need to talk, but otherwise, no other business?
<rickspencer3> I'll be following up with the three postponed items in email
<seb128> right, nothing worth a meeting action or discussion
<seb128> ok good
<rickspencer3> thanks all!
<pitti> thanks all
<ArneGoetje> thanks
 * pitti disappears for today, cu tomorrow
<rickspencer3> post meeting comment: I am really liking Jaunty
<seb128> thanks
<pedro_> thanks you
<seb128> pitti: have fun
<rickspencer3> it looks good, works good
 * kenvandine_wk tries to crash pidgin
<pitti> so am I, it rocks
<kenvandine_wk> it rocks!
<ArneGoetje> pitti: still need to talk to you... have some minutes?
<seb128> yeah jaunty will be a great ubuntu version ;-)
<kenvandine_wk> rickspencer3: well i crashed it :)
<rickspencer3> kenvandine_wk: ok, at least I'm not crazy
<rickspencer3> :)
<seb128> playing pidgin crash? ;-)
<kenvandine_wk> now that i am attached to it with strace, i can't get it to crash again
<rickspencer3> seb128: lol
<kenvandine_wk> hehe
<asac> did you manage to get a backtrace?
<rickspencer3> it's 30 love, pidgin
<kenvandine_wk> no... it doesn't create a crash file or anything
<seb128> kenvandine_wk: strace is of no use for crashes, use gdb
<asac> kenvandine_wk: so its a clean exit ;)
<asac> ?
<kenvandine_wk> maybe...
<rickspencer3> kenvandine_wk: I'm wondering if it's not crashing, but rather some settings are confused
<seb128> what are the steps to get it?
 * rickspencer3 gets bug #
<kenvandine_wk> it clearly happens when you check and uncheck the libnotify plugin
<kenvandine_wk> sometimes
<kenvandine_wk> uncheck libnotify
<kenvandine_wk> and check it again
<rickspencer3> http://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/349009
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 349009 in pidgin "pidgin crashed with SIGSEGV" [Medium,Incomplete]
<rickspencer3> lol
<rickspencer3> I guess kenvandine_wk was able to repro it again
<rickspencer3> seb128: kenvandine_wk is crashing it differently than the repro steps I put in the bug
<seb128> different bug for sure
<kenvandine> ok, i got a SIGABRT
<kenvandine> after toggling libnotify plugin 17 times
<asac> that should produce a core i think at least you can attach gdb to it
<kenvandine> asac: nope...
<kenvandine> weird
<asac> kenvandine: werll. but gdb should work ;)
<kenvandine> yeah... i am running it now
<kenvandine> damn... need the dbg package for it
<kenvandine> and of course now when i am running with gdm i can't crash it!
<asac> kenvandine: please reset your gconf ... maybe that reproduces it on first start
<kenvandine> you mean shut it down?
<kenvandine> i did that
<kenvandine> seb128: did you reproduce it?
<seb128> rickspencer3: I did catch an error in the IRC code using valgrind, copied the log to the bug
<kenvandine> it is solid for me now...  i hate bugs like this :)
<seb128> rickspencer3: I'm looking upstream now
<kenvandine> great
<kenvandine> what is the bug # again?
<seb128> kenvandine: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pidgin/+bug/349009
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 349009 in pidgin "pidgin crashed with SIGSEGV" [Medium,Incomplete]
<seb128> I'm not sure there error is the same though
<seb128> and I really dislike pidgin.im and their bug tracker ;-)
<kenvandine> for me it isn't a SIGSEGV, it is a SIGABRT
<kenvandine> i also can't repro it with the same steps as rick
<kenvandine> for me it is just toggling the libnotify plugin
<seb128> kenvandine: yours is a different bug for sure
<seb128> I don't understand rickspencer3's steps
<seb128> but I think that's because I don't find how to autojoin a channel
<kenvandine> seb128: it is in the add chat interface
<seb128> ok, I stop there
<seb128> that code has lot of issues
<seb128> running it under valgrind for some minutes lists several errors which lead to crashes
<Ng> ooh, is the notification area icon of CD burning progress new?
<kenvandine> seb128: pidgin is scary... i know :0
<Ng> that's *very* cute :)
<kenvandine> Ng: no, that is a brasero thing
<Ng> do like :)
<seb128> you would think pidgin has a viewvcs thing
<chrisccoulson> more clutter in the notification area ;)
<seb128> but not way to find it
<Ng> chrisccoulson: it's not clutter, it appears when I start burning, and disappears when I close the burning window. it's exactly the kind of thing that area should be used for
<Ng> I can keep an eye on the progress without looking for the window :)
<Ng> (imho)
<asac> seb128: i wondered about the pidgin upstream facilities too a few days ago ;)
<asac> seb128: maybe we should send our launchpad marketing droids to them ;)
<seb128> I did try to sell them launchpad when they were using sf still
<seb128> but they prefered their track and monotone integration
<asac> sounds lame
<seb128> rickspencer3: upstream says it's not a crash but due to the ubuntu changes
<seb128> rickspencer3: you don't have a tray icon do you?
<rickspencer3> that has been my assumption
<seb128> rickspencer3: if there is no tray icon it just exit
<rickspencer3> seb128: right
<rickspencer3> I have not tray icon, because I am using indicator-applet
<rickspencer3> however, it does create a crash report
<seb128> rickspencer3: right, seems it doesn't handle the no icon case correctly
<seb128> I'm wondering how many people gave testing to this "no tray icon"
<seb128> that makes me feel uncomfortable that we got no feedback about it out of you
<rickspencer3> it should be everyone who didn't upgrade
<seb128> right, and I expect most of our users are upgrading
<rickspencer3> the default Jaunty install has pidgin defaults set to not use their tray icon
<seb128> or at least the category who reports bugs
<rickspencer3> seb128: true
<rickspencer3> however, every oem deal, etc... will be a fresh install
<asac> did you guys see the bug report about the tray being too difficult to resurrect if user accidentially removed it?
<seb128> rickspencer3: http://developer.pidgin.im/ticket/8774 is your bug
<seb128> asac: yes I commented on it
<asac> did you invalidate the gnome-panel task?
<seb128> no
<seb128> but I don't think we are going to change anything
<seb128> dxteam plan to redo the panel
<seb128> the only change I could see useful until then is "locked should mean not deletable"
<asac> bug 351482
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 351482 in gnome-panel "Re-adding network manager icon to top panel is undiscoverable due to naming of notifications panel" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/351482
<asac> yeahz
<seb128> which we already have a bug about
<asac> thats what i thought
<asac> so lets wont fix it saying that dxteam will reinvent stuff anyway
<seb128> right
<asac> seb128: whats the "panel redo" bug?
<seb128> and we have a bug about "don't allow deleting locked items"
<seb128> asac: I don't think there is a bug, that's dxteam discussions rather ;-)
<asac> seb128: you think you can find the bug numbers and close the bug wontfix giving those?
<asac> ah
<seb128> dinner time bbl
<asac> seb128: enjoy
<rickspencer3> kenvandine_wk: did you see that seb128 tracked down my pidgin crash upstream?
<kenvandine_wk> no
<kenvandine_wk> rickspencer3: buy i think my crash is different
<kenvandine_wk> mine is an abort
<rickspencer3> kenvandine_wk: yes, exactly
<kenvandine_wk> running in gdb now... waiting for a crash :)
<rickspencer3> so:
<rickspencer3> 1. lots of people will run into mine, as a fresh Jaunty install will lack the panel
<asac> rickspencer3: ah resh install lacks which panel?
<asac> fresh
<kenvandine_wk> oh geez
<rickspencer3> 2. you should probably separate the bugs to be tracked seperately, if you haven't already
<rickspencer3> asac: I mean panel icon
<asac> oh right
<asac> let me check that ;)
<asac> yeah it exists, but doesnt crash. seems like expected behaviour based on the patches we have
<asac> if i have a conversation open it stays alive and i can make pidgin reappear through the messaging indicator
<asac> hmm
<rickspencer3> asac: that's the desired behavior
<asac> yeah but on first start or so it doesnt work
<rickspencer3> asac: right
<asac> err if i dont hide and unhide it manually before closing first time
<rickspencer3> if you close the buddy list before you activate the conversation window, it crashes
<rickspencer3> seems the bug is well understood upstream
<kenvandine_wk> rickspencer3: that is strange behavior :)
<rickspencer3> kenvandine_wk: what is?
<asac> i dont see the crash
<kenvandine_wk> your bug :)
<rickspencer3> that you can access the buddy list via the applet
<kenvandine_wk> no... that is cool
<rickspencer3> ?
<kenvandine_wk> the fact that it crashes if you close it before any messages
<rickspencer3> well, software is like that :)
<rickspencer3> It would be great if we could fix this, and get the fix upstream before April 9th
<kenvandine_wk> does it crash if someone messages you before you close it?
<rickspencer3> as it will be less of a corner case with Jaunty
<rickspencer3> I'm not sure, it crashes if I close the buddy list before I touch the conversation window
<kenvandine_wk> i immediately get pounced on everytime i open it
<rickspencer3> I get pounced by irc.canonical.com for instance
<rickspencer3> but it still crashes
<rickspencer3> looks like ken reproed it again ;)
<rickspencer3> kenvandine_wk: how are the test cases going?
<kenvandine_wk> i am through most of them
<kenvandine_wk> i have a couple that really needs a pristine new user
<kenvandine_wk> waiting for pidgin to crash again before i do that :)
<kenvandine_wk> crashed and i got a backtrace :)
<didrocks> seb128: hey
<sabdfl> how do i know how long i've been logged in?
<didrocks> seb128: can it wait for Friday? I am at Solution Linux those 3 days and can't have a real network :)
<sabdfl> last?
<didrocks> hi kenvandine_wk & sabdfl :)
<sabdfl> hi didrocks
<kenvandine_wk> hey didrocks
<cody-somerville> sabdfl, 'w' works
<kenvandine_wk> sabdfl: or w
<tedg> sabdfl: If you don't know how long anymore, it's time to take a break :)
<sabdfl> tedg: alzheimers is fun!
<didrocks> he is a very good friend of mine :)
<kenvandine_wk> sabdfl: clearly not enough crashers :)
<sabdfl> kenvandine_wk: this linux thing is *awesome*
<tedg> Someone should like make CDs of it and hand them out to people or something.
<kenvandine_wk> :-D
<kenvandine_wk> tedg: great idea
<asac> tedg: whats the official way to check whether a indicator applet is running?
<tedg> asac: Don't really have a way.  What is it that you're trying to do?
<asac> tedg: decide whether a using indicator makes sense
<tedg> asac: There's no cost to always indicate what you're application is thinking, so I'd say do it always, never stop :)
<asac> well.
<asac> i need to decide whether to use custom notification or indicator api
<tedg> The issue is that it's designed to be listener independent.  So there could be more than one listener, and if you're looking for a particular implementation of a listener, that's not really useful.
<asac> i cannot just use both ;)
<tedg> Do you mean the notification area, or a notification like notify-osd?
<asac> no really custom notifications like in tbird
<tedg> Oh, never use those.  They're complete and utter fail.  I get offended for people when I see that pop up on their screen.
<asac> sorry, thats not a pragmatic approach ;)
<tedg> On a practical note, I'd say always indicate.  And then allow users to turn those on if they really want them.
<asac> why cant we have something like NameOwnerChange that you can use in dbus to see whether a server is available
<asac> that would really help
<asac> e.g. when there is a listener -> use indicate; otherwise fallback and do something different
<tedg> That doesn't really answer the question though.  That just says that someone is listening, it doesn't say that there's an indicator applet.
<asac> tedg: thats ok imo
<tedg> And, there will be a name, but that just didn't make it in 0.1.  0.2 will have a name for the first listener on the bus.
<asac> if ther is a server that listens for "message.im" and eats the message its broken
<tedg> Well, they're not messages.  They're state.  The application holds them up like flags.
<tedg> Notifications (notify-osd style) are messages, these are different.
<asac> ok then that. shouldnt be much different. if there is a listener that feels reponsible for message.im getting that info similar to NameOwnerChange would be great
<tedg> BTW, it shouldn't be message.im for Thunderbird, it should be message.mail :)
<asac> details :-P
<tedg> Okay, I'll put a wishlist bug in and milestone it for 0.2 to make a way for applications to determine if there is a listener on the bus.
<asac> tedg: its not really about tbird, its about getting infrastrcuture into xulrunner for indicators
<asac> ok good
<dobey> do none of you guys have ssh-agent randomly disappear when you're trying to work?
<asac> works here reliably
<tedg> asac: bug 352616
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 352616 in indicator-applet "Applications should be able to determine if there's a listener out there" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/352616
<tedg> asac: Comment if you have any ideas/features you need.
<davidbarth> join #ubuntu-mobile
<tedg> davidbarth: Hello and welcome to ubuntu-mobile :)
<asac> tedg: yep. thanks
<davidbarth> tedg: <grin>
<bryce> pitti, rickspencer3: after reading through all of the comments on bug 304871 and putting all the commenters into a big table, I see what's going on
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 304871 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "[i845G] Fatal server error: Couldn't bind memory for BO front buffer (Jaunty)" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/304871
<bryce> pitti, rickspencer3: Ironically the original issue on 845 seems to have long since been solved, the last few reporters with 845 cards say the issue went away after a kernel update
<bryce> pitti, rickspencer3: But what happened was 865 users with a somewhat similar bug started commenting heavily, and redirected the bug report towards their issue (which made it very confusing)
<rickspencer3> interesting
<bryce> so I'm splitting out the 865 stuff into two separate bugs, 317457 and 328528
<rickspencer3> bryce, is there a fix for 865 usrs?
<rickspencer3> (great work, btw)
<bryce> there are also some 855 users reporting a similar issue but their workaround, symptoms, and fix are quite different, so I'll handle that with 322646
<bryce> rickspencer3: yeah the patch I proposed earlier to disable DRI works around the issue on 865
<rickspencer3> ok
<rickspencer3> so 855 gets one set of tweaks, 865 another
<bryce> I was getting really confused though because 845, 855, and 865 each need different kinds of fixes
<rickspencer3> 845, there a vanilla install works fine
<bryce> so I need to redo the patch to only apply to 865
<bryce> rickspencer3: anyway the upside is that finally this targeted bug 304871 can be closed as fixed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 304871 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "[i845G] Fatal server error: Couldn't bind memory for BO front buffer (Jaunty)" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/304871
<rickspencer3> sweet
<bryce> the downside is that I have 3 more bugs to work on ;-)
<jcastro> bryce: except each bug will end up spawning 3 more bugs until it's the apocalypse
<rickspencer3> lol
<bryce> jcastro: likely so
<kenvandine_wk> rickspencer3: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/JauntyIndicatorAppletTestCases/KenVanDine/20090331
<rickspencer3> kenvandine_wk: sweet
<kenvandine_wk> rickspencer3: reload that page, i updated a comment in there on test case 7
<kenvandine_wk> i think i can fix that one myself very easily
<kenvandine_wk> humm... maybe not that easily... it loops through all the windows from evo_shell
<kenvandine_wk> so i guess that dialog isn't a window :)
<rickspencer3> kenvandine_wk: +1 on completeness and attention to detail ...
<rickspencer3> but sounds like a fairly low priority to me
<rickspencer3> perhaps just log the bug and move on to importance=High issues
<seb128> re
<seb128> rickspencer3: what bug?
<kenvandine_wk> ok, but i think this is one that people might hit often...
 * kenvandine_wk frequently hits send and receive while passing through evo :)
<kenvandine_wk> seb128:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/JauntyIndicatorAppletTestCases/KenVanDine/20090331
<kenvandine_wk> test case 7
<seb128> not really clear what you mean there
<kenvandine_wk> if you have evo focused, and a new mail comes in you don't get notified
<kenvandine_wk> but
<kenvandine_wk> if you hit send and receive, you do
<kenvandine_wk> when evo is in focus you shouldn't get notifications for mail
<kenvandine_wk> rickspencer3: so overall far better than last round of testing :)
<rickspencer3> kenvandine_wk: great
 * kenvandine_wk moves on
<rickspencer3> kenvandine_wk: come back :)
<seb128> kenvandine_wk: right
<kenvandine_wk> hehe
<rickspencer3> I think we need need a new test case to describe what the buddy list should do
<rickspencer3> seb128: correct me if I'm wrong ...
<kenvandine_wk> oh... i have a grievance with that...
<rickspencer3> i think the user should go Aplications->Internert->Pidgin
<rickspencer3> buddy list opens
<rickspencer3> user closes buddy list
<rickspencer3> user looks in indicator applet and see pidgin is running
<rickspencer3> user closes indicator applet
<kenvandine_wk> closes the applet?
<rickspencer3> user gets an im, conversation window opens
<rickspencer3> dismisses the menu, not closes the applet
<kenvandine_wk> ok
<rickspencer3> just does nothing with the applet
<rickspencer3> the point being that pidgin only quits if the user chooses "quit" from the buddy list
<rickspencer3> file menu. Otherwise, keeps running
<kenvandine_wk> rickspencer3: yes... that is how it works now
<rickspencer3> good
<kenvandine_wk> but
<rickspencer3> could I ask you to create a test case for that and confirm that it continues to work that way?
<seb128> kenvandine_wk: what rick gets has been described as a crash on exit by upstream ... are you sure it doesn't try to exit?
<kenvandine_wk> this is very annoying... now that i have lived for 2 hours without the icon in the systray
<kenvandine_wk> seb128: i can repro his crash too
<seb128> when not having the icon?
<kenvandine_wk> but when it doesn't crash, it does that :)
<kenvandine_wk> yes
<kenvandine_wk> so when you click on pidgin in the indicator applet, and the buddy list isn't minimized
<kenvandine_wk> it doesn't focus it
<kenvandine_wk> you have to click it a second time
<rickspencer3> kenvandine_wk: after you get the test case written up, could you ping me?
<kenvandine_wk> if it is minimized it does the right thing the first click
<kenvandine_wk> but if not it minimizes it on the first click
<kenvandine_wk> yeah
<kenvandine_wk> i need to file a bug for that
<rickspencer3> we should be very crisp about how it should work, and have a very actionable set of bugs for the delta between actual and desired behavior
<rickspencer3> now is the time to nail this down
<rickspencer3> pidgin is an essentially element of the Ubuntu desktop, we must ensure that it behaves predictably for users
<seb128> kenvandine_wk: hum I can't confirm what you said
<seb128> I run pidgin on a command line
<seb128> turn off the notification icon
<seb128> click on the X in the right corner
<seb128> pidgin exit
<rickspencer3> *sigh*
<rickspencer3> that's very maddening
<rickspencer3> I just closed the buddy window, and it closed my active conversations
<seb128> what I said
<seb128> closing the buddylist exit when you have no notify icon
<rickspencer3> exactly
<rickspencer3> but it doesn't alway happen
<rickspencer3> but it didn't seem like a crash
<seb128> well I was writting that before you left
<seb128> <seb128> kenvandine_wk: hum I can't confirm what you said
<seb128>  I run pidgin on a command line
<seb128>  turn off the notification icon
<seb128>  click on the X in the right corner
<seb128>  pidgin exit
<seb128> every time here
<rickspencer3> seb128: what I'm not clear on is:
<rickspencer3> is this a bug? or the result of the settings?
<rickspencer3> it seems like I would have noticed this long ago
<seb128> well, when you have no remaining component on screen it exit
<seb128> the conversations count and the notify icon count
<seb128> you probably don't notice because you have IRC running all day
<seb128> if you would do jabber only you would quickly notice
<seb128> talking to nobody and closing the buddylist
<seb128> -> exit
<rickspencer3> so it's a bug, as I have the conversation window open, and it closes the conversation window
<seb128> right it probably doesn't detect it as active for some reason
<rickspencer3> (when I close the buddy list)
 * rickspencer3 tries a few things
<seb128> but you pinpointed what I expect will be a huge flamefest from IM users who don't do IRC
<seb128> in fact no
<seb128> it just exit there
<rickspencer3> it's a crash
<seb128> open conversations or not
<rickspencer3> when I run from the command line, it says:
<rickspencer3> Segmentation fault (core dumped)
<seb128> right
<kenvandine_wk> it is working in my VM
<seb128> that's probably still the same crash on exit you are having for a while
<kenvandine_wk> which only has one gtalk account enabled
<seb128> weird
<rickspencer3> d;uh
<kenvandine_wk> i think that crash is irc specific, right?
<seb128> not clear but the upstream bug suggests you need several accounts
<seb128> well, I'm using pidgin for jabber
<seb128> I run it on a command line
<seb128> double click on a contact
<seb128> say hello
<seb128> click on the X in the buddylist
<seb128> pidgin exit
<seb128> every time
<seb128> and that's not a crash
<seb128> I think it's designed to exit if there is notification icon
<seb128> which makes sense because how would you unhidde otherwise
<dobey> if there's no notification icon, yeah it just exits
<rickspencer3> 8arg*
<seb128> I expect that to be a massive issue for our userbase if we don't do something
<rickspencer3> seb128: ack
<rickspencer3> kenvandine_wk: obviously this needs to be addressed asap
<rickspencer3> thoughts?
<seb128> and I'm a bit concerned than we didn't detect the issue until now
<Amaranth> you didn't?
<seb128> the whole message indicator part of the dxteam work didn't get lot of testing apparently
<Amaranth> maybe I should have filed that bug report...
<seb128> Amaranth: no, nobody opened a bug or mentioned it on any list I'm reading
<Amaranth> they were talking about it on the forums, I think
<seb128> and I still have the notification icon since it's not removed on upgrade
<kenvandine_wk> humm
<Amaranth> and people mention it in #ubuntu+1 sometimes
<seb128> I don't read forums
<kenvandine_wk> it isn't exiting here
<seb128> and i'm not on #ubuntu+1
<seb128> kenvandine_wk: are you sure you desactivated the notification icon in pidgin's option?
<seb128> kenvandine_wk: you didn't delete the notification area right?
<chrisccoulson> it's exiting here for me like seb128 says, but i'm certain that I've seen it not exit sometimes too
<tedg> I just did it, and I'm still here :)
<rickspencer3> hehe
<rickspencer3> well, no such luck for chris
<seb128> tedg: IRC could keep it running
<seb128> it seems people who use pidgin for IRC manage to get it still running
<rickspencer3> seb128: I *only* have irc
<kenvandine_wk> seb128: this is a pristine jaunty install
<seb128> so maybe IRC is a special case
<seb128> kenvandine_wk: jaunty is not available yet
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i'm using IRC and it still exits ;)
<seb128> kenvandine_wk: what alpha, beta, daily?
<kenvandine_wk> hehe
<kenvandine_wk> beta
<seb128> exit and crash when using IRC
<rickspencer3> there are two seperable issues:
<chrisccoulson> i don't see a crash either :/
<rickspencer3> #1: pidgin quits when it shouldn't
<rickspencer3> #2 pidgin crashes when it quits
<seb128> right
<seb128> I'm not concerned about #2
<kenvandine_wk> ok... interesting
<seb128> that's a well understood issue
<rickspencer3> bratsche is working on #2, but #1 is the much more serious problem
<seb128> indeed
<rickspencer3> so ...
<kenvandine_wk> if i start pidgin and immediately close it with the X
<kenvandine_wk> it does exit
<kenvandine_wk> but
<kenvandine_wk> if i click on it in the indicator first
<kenvandine_wk> it doesn't
<tedg> So, the way that it works now is that Pidgin will close if you don't use the indicator applet to close it.  But, if you do start using the indicator applet, it assumes that's what you want to do.
<tedg> yeah, what kenvandine_wk said.
<chrisccoulson> that's really confusing behaviour
<rickspencer3> tedg: so this bahvior is by design?
<kenvandine_wk> it is :)
<rickspencer3> because it's kicking our asses as users
<tedg> It was a compromise for the non-Ubuntu case where they wanted X to close.
<seb128> nobody will figure that
<chrisccoulson> when i click the X, i expect it to do the same thing every time ;)
<seb128> I never used the indicator to hide my buddy list
<kenvandine_wk> rickspencer3: it isn't that terrible if you use the indicator a ton... but we need it to be better
<rickspencer3> it explains the whole "sometimes" factor
<seb128> it's far away from the list and I don't see the point
<rickspencer3> kenvandine_wk: it's terrible
<rickspencer3> none of us could figure out what the heck was going on
<tedg> So, the idea was to make it so that if you didn't use it, it wouldn't keep the window open.
<rickspencer3> after heavy, repeated use, heavily skilled desktop users were hopelessly confused
<rickspencer3> tedg: are we talking about the same thing?
<kenvandine_wk> it would really suck for jaunty... since people aren't used to using the indicator yet
<dobey> i just never hide my buddy list
<dobey> if i want to hide it, i switch desktops
<kenvandine_wk> so hurts the learning process a great deal
<rickspencer3> what we are saying is that if we close the buddy window and there is a conversation open, we expect the conversation window to stay open
<dobey> i use the tray icon to queue messages when i'm away, and to mute the sounds if i'm on the phone or something
<rickspencer3> even if there isn't a conversation window open, we expect pidgin to keep running (as it always has)
<kenvandine_wk> rickspencer3: yes... that is what it needs to do... but only if the indicator applet is available
<seb128> users expect simply an IM to always run
<seb128> they change to status to offline or busy sometime
<kenvandine_wk> yeah
<tedg> Let me step back, what happens is that Pidgin has the ability to have people inhibit the exit when the buddy list is closed.  So if we set ourselves up as an inhibitor, then when you hit the X the buddy list will close, but not the app.
<seb128> but it should be running
<tedg> The question is should the plugin inhibit close or not.
<kenvandine_wk> i think it should
<seb128> pidgin should never close when clicking on the X
<rickspencer3> I think you could infer from experience as users here, that it absolutely should
<tedg> Okay, so if there is no messaging indicator, how do you get the buddy list back?
<seb128> whatever is the configuration you are using and your workflow
<dobey> how do you open the buddy list if there are no current "indicators" for pidgin then?
<dobey> heh
<seb128> well obviously it should close if there is no notify icon or indicator
<rickspencer3> we just spent like 45 minutes with multiple engineers trying to track down the "bug" that was making the windows close
<kenvandine_wk> tedg: it should be conditional
<rickspencer3> right
<kenvandine_wk> if the indicator isn't running... don't inhibit
<rickspencer3> there are three cases
<rickspencer3> well four cases
<tedg> So, we dont' really know if the indicator is running.
<rickspencer3> #1 indicator-applet, no pidgin icon
<rickspencer3> #2 pidgin icon, no indicator applet
<rickspencer3> #3 indicator-applet, pidgin icon
<rickspencer3> #4 no icons
<seb128> tedg: it seems to me that this while indicator thing is not ready to be used
<rickspencer3> in cases 1-3 pidgin should keep running
<rickspencer3> mat_t: hi
<rickspencer3> mat_t: ted: all I'm saying is, if you look at the users in this room, trying to use pidgin to get work done, if you look at us as a usability test session
<tedg> rickspencer3: I don't disagree, the problem is that there's no good way to detect whether the indicator applet is running, or if it's concerned with Pidgin.  We could check to see if there's a listener on the bus, but that doesn't mean it's interested in us.
<rickspencer3> it's obvious that the indicator should inhibit pidgin closing
<tedg> rickspencer3: I'm not disagreeing.
<rickspencer3> so the current behavior is an artifact of implementation constraints?
<tedg> Yes, I'd say that's fair.
<rickspencer3> I don't understand the constraint
<rickspencer3> does the pidgin plugin not register with the indicator-applet?
<seb128> there is no public interface between those applications you can query, ie pidgin has nowhere to ask what to do
<tedg> pidgin-libnotify effectively has no way to determine whether indicator-applet is running.  There is no registration.  But, it has to choose whether to inhibit the exit.
<bratsche> rickspencer3: You need to be using irc with pidgin to reproduce this crasher?
<tedg> seb128: No, indicator-applet does all the asking.  It doesn't have it's own API.
<rickspencer3> bratsche: not sure, but can we table the crash discussion for a few minutes?
<bratsche> Sure.
<seb128> bratsche: yes, try having a jabber and a IRC account, disable the notification area icon in the pidgin preference dialog and close it using the x in the corner
<bratsche> Okay cool, thanks.
<rickspencer3> can we patch pidgin to detect the indicator-applet?
<rickspencer3> in the same way it detects the panel icon?
<tedg> rickspencer3: We could detect whether the process is running... but that doesn't mean a whole lot.  It doesn't detect the panel icon, the panel icon is in process for Pidgin.  It's XEmbed.
<seb128> well, let's be pragmatic
<tedg> It would work in the basic case, but if something like the indicator-applet got hung, we'd still hide the buddy list.
<seb128> if we have to screw a case screw the user who have neither the indicator nor the notify icon
<seb128> and let's never close it
<rickspencer3> I would take that trade-off over what we have today
<rickspencer3> seb128: good idea
<seb128> I doubt many user will have neither the indicator or icon and what to close it anyway
<seb128> what -> want
<tedg> That's fine with me.
<rickspencer3> in any case, it must work very well in the default desktop that we ship
<tedg> The problem is that Pidgin, by default, defaults to having no icon on Kubuntu.
<tedg> So effectively, on non Ubuntu desktops, we've got the case where there is no indicator and no icon.
<seb128> ok, I'm not going to make friends in the dxteam but I'm near of suggesting that we add the notification area icon back by default in jaunty if we can't figure something better
<kenvandine_wk> i would say a user wanting the X to close their im session is a corner case
<rickspencer3> I think we are all agreed on the desired behavior, yes?
<kenvandine_wk> we always inhibit?
<rickspencer3> The question is how to respond to the implementation constraints
<tedg> Can other flavors ship different Pidgin defaults XML file?
<rickspencer3> dunno
<seb128> no
<seb128> other flavor are ubuntu
<rickspencer3> Kubuntu, xubuntu, studio, etc...
<seb128> you can install xfce and GNOME on a same box and let user log into whatever desktop they want
<seb128> and we have no mechanism right now to divert pidgin configs this way
<rickspencer3> what are the consequences of making the close button just "hide" the buddy window, and never exit?
<rickspencer3> (or hiding the "x" button)
<tedg> You can't get the buddy list back.
<seb128> it would screw other desktop environment which have no indicator
<rickspencer3> scratch that last one
<seb128> since we disable the icon by default
<rickspencer3> tedg: could you not go Applciations->Internet->Pidgin?
<rickspencer3> to get it back
<chrisccoulson> that doesn't work
<chrisccoulson> pidgin just exits immediately
<seb128> no, it would start a new one which would detect a running instance and exit
<rickspencer3> hmmm
<rickspencer3> could it not detect the running instance, and then force that instance to show the buddy window?
<tedg> We could probably shell script that...  it could find the pidgin instance running and send it the dbus command to open the buddy list.
<rickspencer3> or could we figure out some other way for pidgin to detect if it should be inhibited from exiting?
<rickspencer3> for instance, it could check for a file on disk?
<rickspencer3> (or does this fall foul to the "what if indicator-applet hangs" problem?)
<seb128> we don't care about the indicator hanging
<seb128> what if the notification area is screwed since warty
<seb128> just make there that doesn't happen ;-)
<rickspencer3> so pidgin checks if the indicator-applet process is running, and if so, the buddy list hides without exiting?
<rickspencer3> and if indicator-applet is hung, so be it
<rickspencer3> ?
<tedg> This should always show the buddy list: dbus-send --session --dest="im.pidgin.purple.PurpleService" /im/pidgin/purple/PurpleObject im.pidgin.purple.PurpleInterface.PurpleBlistShow
<seb128> I think that would work
<kenvandine_wk> if it doesn't... there are bigger problems :)
<tedg> If that was just in the desktop file in general, it seems like you'd either get an error from dbus-send or show the buddy list no matter what.  Something like "pidgin ; <above>"
<kenvandine_wk> tedg: humm... that isn't working for me
<tedg> kenvandine_wk: Hmm, for some reason you need a "--print-reply"
<tedg> Heh, it seems to bring it forward, but not-unhide it.
<tedg> That's odd.
<seb128> $ dbus-send --print-reply --session --dest="im.pidgin.purple.PurpleService" /im/pidgin/purple/PurpleObject im.pidgin.purple.PurpleInterface.PurpleBlistShow
<seb128> method return sender=:1.204 -> dest=:1.226 reply_serial=2
<seb128> but that doesn't show the list
<kenvandine_wk> yeah
<kenvandine_wk> only focuses it
<rickspencer3> (01:44:22 PM) tedg: Let me step back, what happens is that Pidgin has the ability to have people inhibit the exit when the buddy list is closed.  So if we set ourselves up as an inhibitor, then when you hit the X the buddy list will close, but not the app.
<rickspencer3> (01:44:38 PM) tedg: The question is should the plugin inhibit close or not.
<rickspencer3> tedg: I'm still on clear on how "set ourselves up as an inhibitor"
<rickspencer3> do we patch pidgin with code that checks what we want?
<kenvandine_wk> rickspencer3: that is the libnotify plugin
<tedg> rickspencer3: The pidgin-libnotify plugin calls a function in the API to say "I inhibit things"
<kenvandine_wk> not pidgin
<rickspencer3> calls a function on the pidgin API
<rickspencer3> so the plugin detects (in some way) the presence of the indicator-applet?
<tedg> rickspencer3: Effectively yes.
<tedg> No the plugin can not detect the applet.
<rickspencer3> it doesn't seem complex to me ... if we accept that the process may be hung
<rickspencer3> can it not detect a process by a canonical name, etc...
<tedg> It could do that, look for the binary name.
<rickspencer3> can the applet write a file with it's pid in a defined place, for the plugin to read?
<tedg> I think that works for our standard cases, the thing I'm concerned about is things like AWN.  AWN could very easily use the indicator API to work with Pidgin and do the same behaviors.  I'm not sure how we all work together and be friends.
<rickspencer3> not sure how that interacts
<rickspencer3> I don't see the issue there
<tedg> I think that, for 0.2, we need to add having listeners who are interested tell the servers.  I think that can all be in the library, so no app changes.
<kenvandine_wk> good
<tedg> This buddy list management was added so late, it really isn't in the design.
<rickspencer3> okay
<rickspencer3> so, what should we do next?
<tedg> Cry :)
<rickspencer3> tedg: can you add the inhibiting behavior
<rickspencer3> lol
<tedg> Yes, I'm trying to think whether it's worth spec'ing out and putting in the library now.
<rickspencer3> kenvandine_wk: I think we need a very clear bug that describes the desired behvior
<rickspencer3> like, zero ambiguity :)
<kenvandine_wk> yeah :)
<kenvandine_wk> so a bug that describes the behavior we want in all cases :)
<kenvandine_wk> that should be *easy*
<tedg> I think I'd need one signal, which would change the class size... but, we could rebuild pidgin-libnotify, evolution-indicator and the python bindings.
<tedg> That's not too bad.
<rickspencer3> kenvandine_wk: not all cases, just the case when the user has the indicator applet open, and clicks "x" on the buddy list
<kenvandine_wk> ok
<rickspencer3> oops, not open, I mean on their panel
<kenvandine_wk> i will do that
<kenvandine_wk> yeah
<rickspencer3> the bug is that it currently sometimes exits (depending on whether it's been touched through the indicator-applet or not)
<rickspencer3> thanks tedg
<kenvandine_wk> yeah, i can describe the current behavior as well as the desired behavior
<seb128> tedg: rebuilding the few clients of the lib is no issue
 * kenvandine_wk needs to go take baby duty for a little bit... will file it after dinner :)
<kenvandine_wk> later folks
 * kenvandine_wk is glad we caught this now
<seb128> kenvandine_wk: see you later
<tedg> Okay, so that'll have to be a tomorrow project.  I won't get it done today.
<rickspencer3> tedg: I'm disappointed, I would have thought you would have been coding while we discussed
<rickspencer3> :)
<tedg> seb128: I'll ping you to figure out how to do the rebuilds when I get there.  I'm not sure how that works, just reupload everything at once?
<tedg> rickspencer3: I was coding, different bugs ;)
<seb128> tedg: do you plan to break ABI? in which case change the soname
<seb128> tedg: the old soname will still be there until we rebuild everything against the new one
<tedg> seb128: Yes, we'll have to.  The size of the class will change with the signal addition.  I realized that a while ago, but I didn't want to break things by adding "reserved" entires :)  I'll add them now :)
<rickspencer3> tedg: I suggest you now run away as fast as you can, before we make more work for you!
<seb128> ok, I guess you know what to do
<seb128> let me know tomorrow if you need sponsoring for the changes and rebuilds I can do that
<seb128> and I will call it a day now, that was enough discussions for this evening ;-)
<rickspencer3> night seb128
<seb128> 'night rickspencer3
<seb128> see you tomorrow
<RobLoach> Installing Ubuntu 9.04 Netbook Remix.
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-04-01
<cody-somerville> asac, you really *are* a karma whore.
<xnguard> Does OpenJDK provide a Java Control Panel similar to the Sun JDK's?
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> ArneGoetje: hi
<seb128> hello there
 * pitti has updated https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<pitti> quite a number of new issues
<pitti> I need a two hour block of intense hacking to work on my RC bugs; back later
<seb128> robert_ancell: hi
<seb128> robert_ancell: could you open your rhythmbox bug upstream too? ;-)
<robert_ancell> seb128: hey seb
 * seb128 read emails from the night
<robert_ancell> yes, was going to do that...
 * robert_ancell is bug juggling
<seb128> hey mvo
<seb128> robert_ancell: how was your day? what did you work on?
<robert_ancell> seb128: now I remember... You said not to confirm your own bugs so I was waiting for someone to do that.  (which has now been done)
<mvo> hey seb128
<seb128> robert_ancell: well you can open your bugs upstream directly though ;-)
<seb128> robert_ancell: there is no point to have you open it on launchpad to get me to do the forwarding to bugzilla.gnome.org for example
<seb128> opening directly to bugzilla is a win for everybody
<robert_ancell> seb128: I spent some more time on 300954 but haven't really made any more progress.  I don't have good knowledge of this layer so making slow progress - any other eyes greatly welcome
<seb128> robert_ancell: ok, don't spend to much time on it, it's sort of a corner case
<robert_ancell> seb128: other than that mostly triaging.  Been trying to get vinagre bugs all upstream
<seb128> robert_ancell: I got some other higher priority bugs on my list though if you want to have a look to some of those
<seb128> robert_ancell: good ;-)
<robert_ancell> seb128: a list of bugs would be good.  I still don't have a good overview of the problems out there so I'm kind of starting at the bottom hunting for bugs to fix (which is also good so I know which bugs are duplicates)
<seb128> does anybody has gnome-sound-properties freezing?
<robert_ancell> seb128: regarding the rhythmbox issue:  I opened that against Ubuntu because
<robert_ancell> seb128: a) I didn't have a GNOME checkout
<robert_ancell> seb128: b) It will affect other Ubuntu users
<seb128> robert_ancell: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~desktop-bugs, click on the advanced search and select milestoned 9.04 and you get a list of issues that would be nice to work on for jaunty
<seb128> robert_ancell: right, I would advice to open on launchpad and upstream in those case or make a comment saying that you will forward upstream after investigation so bug triagers don't pick it up for you
<seb128> robert_ancell: I usually don't bother testing on svn we have recent version (ie the current tarball is 2 weeks old)
<seb128> but if you test with svn that's better ;-)
<robert_ancell> seb128: cool.  will do in the future.
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> robert_ancell: do you have an ipod? ;-)
<robert_ancell> seb128: I have a 2nd gen iPod (somewhere)
<seb128> robert_ancell: bug #312902 might be not too hard to fix, it's pretty well described in the upstream bug with the faulty code etc
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 312902 in rhythmbox "Rhythmbox asks to overwrite files during transfer to iPod" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/312902
<seb128> robert_ancell: that would be worth fixing if you want to have a look tomorrow
<robert_ancell> ok, will do
<seb128> robert_ancell: it's just the filename randomization which is not random enough
<seb128> it cames with several time the same filename for different track easily
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> I will add some bugs today to the milestoned list so feel free to watch that list daily too if you want to pick on new jaunty bugs to fix
<robert_ancell> seb128: question regarding .deb bug 39812 - is there anything else that can be asked to work out what failed?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 39812 in libgnome "installation breaks with 'subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 245'" [Medium,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/39812
<seb128> robert_ancell: well if the crash happened only one the odd are that either gconftool-2 or scrollkeeper-update crashed
<seb128> that happens sometime but never when you try to valgrind it or not often enough for that
<robert_ancell> seb128: would that be logged anywhere?
<seb128> no
<seb128> the scrollkeeper-update bugs usually seems to be corruptions
<seb128> we have the libc stacktraces but that's not useful
<seb128> we would need a valgrind log
<seb128> some of those issues are also local corruptions, faulty ram or disk errors
<seb128> those bugs are either clear issues or weird cases
<seb128> don't focus on weird cases
<robert_ancell> seb128: so what to do?  Close out?
<seb128> that one is closed yes
<seb128> I usually ask if that happens every time, if "sudo apt-get -f install" still trigger the bug
<seb128> and close the bug if it doesn't saying that was a glitch and that we lack informations to debug it
<seb128> that's not optimal so if you have a better idea on how to debug those or ask for details feel free to do it ;-)
<robert_ancell> no, I have no ideas (except it would be nice if there was some more loggin)
<seb128> indeed
<seb128> that's probably not a priority for jaunty now
<seb128> the rush is on fixing user visible issues
<seb128> but we should work on that next cycle
<robert_ancell> seb128: another bug question - there are number of bugs like bug 212629 where the issue affects multiple ubuntu packages - how do you stop it affecting a package? For instance this bug was opened against vinagre, then linked to vino so it doesn't really affect vinagre now
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 212629 in vino "VNC should confirm granting control of desktop" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/212629
<seb128> robert_ancell: usually better to change the component than opening a new task
<seb128> robert_ancell: just mark the vinagre task invalid if there 2 tasks and only one is correct
<robert_ancell> ok
<robert_ancell> seb128: calling it a night here, any requests?  I'll try and find some meatier bugs tomorrow
<seb128> robert_ancell: no, don't spend too much time on side issues but look at the milestoned bugs and help triaging if you can ;-)
<robert_ancell> later all
<seb128> james_w: hey, congrats you have broken gnome-panel ;-)
<mvo> asac: python-xpcom is not installable, is that something we care about?
<seb128> james_w: it's only on NX setups so no real worry, I commented on the upstream bug about that
<james_w> ah, good to know, thanks
<james_w> I assume we'll give it a few days to improve the patch, and then revert if necessary?
<seb128> james_w: right
<james_w> cool, thanks
<seb128> np, thanks for the work on the bug ;-)
<asac> mvo: no
<asac> pitti: actually should be removed from archive together with all xul 1.8
<asac> i asked lool about mobile-basic-flash, he said they dont need it. i will reconfirm that  now ;)
<asac> oh lool is here ;) ^^
<asac> pitti: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bugs/352968
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 352968 in xulrunner "remove xulrunner 1.8 and all left over rdepend binaries from jaunty archive." [High,Triaged]
<pitti> asac: I see; the archive admins will care for that, thanks
<asac> thx
<Ng> re the indicator applet, on all the other jaunty machines in the office people seem to get a little panel applet with an envelope in it. I don't (having added it to the panel). Is that because I'm using empathy and not pidgin, so nothing is talking to it so it's staying hidden? or should I file a bug?
<pitti> Ng: it's meant to appear when pidgin or evolution are running
<Ng> fair enough. I'll wait for the future to catch up with me and be Empathy ;)
<Ng> thanks ;)
<pitti> heh, no problem
<asac> so tracker is still completely broken?
<asac> i told him to index one folder only
<asac> that folder has only one file in it
<asac> still it indexes all the time :(
<asac> and no info given what its currently indexing either (e.g. no mouse hover info)
<seb128> asac: open bugs on launchpad, upstream is tracking issues there
<asac> ok. those appeared to be so obvious that i wondered if its maintained at all ;)
<asac> is anyone using tracker here? or am i alone?
<seb128> I don't, I don't think it does anything useful
<seb128> and it does create io load
<asac> seb128: do we install it by default still?
<seb128> no
<asac> ok
<seb128> bryce: could you comment on why you think bug #337926 is ct-rev?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 337926 in xfree86-driver-synaptics "vino: mouse cursor stays in upper left corner" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/337926
<chrisccoulson> asac - i used to use tracker but I stopped using it in Jaunty as my machine grinds to a halt when it's indexing
<bryce> seb128: insufficient explanation why it was assigned in the first place
<bryce> esp. with bugs that are med prior, you really need to justify why you assign to me, when there are so many high prio X bugs that need attention
<asac> chrisccoulson: yes. i think the problem is that its indexing full HOME ... no matter what
<asac> filed bug 353008
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 353008 in tracker "tracker indexes all the time even though only "one" folder with "one" file configured for indexing" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/353008
<bryce> at this stage, even with high prio bugs, I am focusing my priorities on ones that have patches or for which a patch is pretty easy to figure out.
<asac> also bug 353010
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 353010 in tracker "tracker applet doesn't show what directory/file it currently indexes" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/353010
<seb128> bryce_: it basically makes vnc unusable for synaptic users in jaunty apparently
<seb128> *shrug*
<chrisccoulson> asac - interesting, i'll try that when i get home.
<chrisccoulson> i normally use tracker to index my entire home folder, so i didn't notice that
<asac> chrisccoulson: yeah. but even that is most likely just doing something wrong
<asac> i looked at statistics and even though it indexed for 3 days now (the folder with 1 file)
<asac> i only have a few files indexed
<asac> so it definitly makes a lot of noise for nothing
<asac> fixing that might also make indexing HOME better
<chrisccoulson> that definately sounds like something is wrong
<seb128> chrisccoulson: btw want to do the tracker update?
<asac> i think we want a desktop indexer at some point ;)
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i can work on that
<seb128> chrisccoulson: there is a new bug fix version, debian did update already
<seb128> chrisccoulson: thanks!
<asac> its a shame that it became worse since we first tried to get it installed by default
<asac> hmm
<bryce> seb128: honestly I think there are worse X bugs...
<asac> chrisccoulson: if you need a sponsor let me know ;)
<seb128> bryce: right, not a reason to drop the bug on the ground though
<bryce> seb128: however if y'all uncover a patch I'd be happy to put it in.
<chrisccoulson> asac - for me, i don't think it's entirely a tracker issue. anything that involves any moderate disk IO on my machine grinds it to a halt, to the point that the mouse cursor stutters and pauses for several seconds at a time
<seb128> bryce: not likely I'm not using synaptic, would "downgrade the synaptic xorg package to the intrepid version" do? ;-)
<bryce> seb128: how does "unassign myself" == "drop the bug on the ground"??
<asac> chrisccoulson: yeah, but tracker infinitely grinding doesnt make things better ... even for your IO issues ;)
<seb128> bryce: well that's what I meant ct-rev to mean == "not really something we care about"
<chrisccoulson> i agree :)
<asac> seb128: want something to smile?
<asac> seb128: http://www.sofaraway.org/ubuntu/tmp/karma-seb128.png ;)
<seb128> asac: always ;-)
<seb128> lol
<asac> somehow makes all your 24/7 bug work voiud
<asac> but still funny
<asac> even me got a boost : http://www.sofaraway.org/ubuntu/tmp/karma-asac.png
<pitti> ??
<seb128> asac: they count all the translations updates for the uploads you do
<asac> pitti: look at the ridiculous translation karma everbody gets for uploads
<pitti> that's a bug
<asac> seb128: noticed that ;)
<asac> obviously yes ;)
<asac> (bug)
<seb128> asac: I'm still beating you on the karma level so that's good :-P
<asac> damn ...
 * asac searches for new tricks
<seb128> the answer tracker seems to pay a lot too
<asac> let me reupload nm-applet like 100 times ;)
<asac> seb128: yeah. your answer work seems to carry fruits
<bryce> true glory only comes from bug tracker karma ;-)
<asac> do you just move everything thats stupid to answer tracker?
<asac> bryce: previously true glory also came from translations
<asac> you had to translate like 100k strings to get 30k karma ;)
<seb128> asac: yes
<asac> now you upload gnome apps and get a massive boost ;)
<seb128> asac: bugs which are "nautilus doesn't work please fix it" -> answer tracker
<asac> seb128: i always feel a bit reluctant about doing that because i feel like i should actually make a real question out of it
<asac> and often its mostly like "nothing works here, help!"
<asac> but maybe i should just convert those things too
<seb128> asac: days only have 24 hours and I get enough good quality bugs to be busy during those
<asac> seb128: do you follow how well those "stupid" bugs get resolved after making questions out of them?
<seb128> there is no point to keep noise there
<seb128> no, I just ignore those
<asac> ;)
<seb128> the answer tracker guys manage to bounce that back as a bug if they figure that's one
<seb128> otherwise I let them deal with answering to users
<seb128> enough real bug emails to read
<asac> seb128: can someone make bugs out of them again?
<seb128> yes
<asac> i think i had questions that suddenly reappeared as bugs
<seb128> there is a convert to bug button there
<asac> ok so thats normal
<seb128> the same way there is a convert to question on the bug page
<asac> seb128: can the reporter do that?
<seb128> I think so
<asac> ok thats explains it
<asac> so convert to question is still not the "push into sink where reporter cannot come back from again"
<asac> chrisccoulson: are you doing bug triage on tracker a bit too?
<asac> chrisccoulson: almost all crashes are still private ... not sure if upstream sees them
<seb128> asac: upstream is doing but they will probably not no
<asac> chrisccoulson: we should at least open them up for upstream ... or subscribe upstream
<seb128> I expect most can be marked public, we just need to do that on a regular basis
<asac> maybe adding "tracker" project part would make them open for them?
<seb128> shame that we don't get emails about apport-crash bugs
<asac> seb128: right. i am currently looking for someone who could do that regularly ;)
<asac> agree. emails would be nice to trigger bug triage interrupts
<seb128> asac: tracker has been mostly rewritten this year, work paid by nokia apparently
<seb128> asac: the current team is eager to fix the issue we have too
<asac> do we have that rewrite?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> that 0.6.9n
<seb128> that's 0.6.9n
<asac> hmm. so maybe thats the reason it appears like a regression to me
<seb128> well there is people paid to work full time on it I think
<seb128> so just make sure to open bugs
<seb128> they rolled a new bug fix version some days ago
<seb128> and they told me they watch launchpad to fix issues reported tehre
<asac> i dont have time for more bug work ;) ... i can do that sporadically, but not reliably ;)
<seb128> right
<asac> seb128: thats great. (e.g. that they use launchpad)
<seb128> I mean if it doesn't work for you don't hesitate to open a bug
<asac> do they look at ubuntu packages or only "tracker" tasks?
<seb128> the ubuntu package I think
<asac> we really have to get crashes out of bug DB imo. if they are anonymized we can just open up and remove coredump after a month or so
<seb128> yeah
<bryce> well, it's after 3:30 in the morning, I've been working on bugs since 9am.  Wife says it's time to go to bed.
<asac> bryce: sleep is for the weak ;)
<seb128> bryce: looks like a deserved to get sleep indeed ;-)
<seb128> *you*
<pitti> bryce: ugh, still awake?
<bryce> asac: I'll tell my wife that
<seb128> bryce: 'night
 * pitti hugs bryce
<asac> bryce: the problem about huge bug batches is that every mail you send triggers about 3 replies ;)
<asac> so if you sleep you will have a hard time to stay on top
<bryce> pitti: sorry I didn't get to the patch you pointed out; it's in the queue though.  Will get to it tomorrow.
<asac> bryce: sleep well ;)
<pitti> bryce: which patch?
<bryce> um... *rummage*
<pitti> bryce: btw, I'll update my PPA with the watermark fix again, it got shadowed by your ubuntu4
<pitti> I hope I'll get some more testing feedback soon
<bryce> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19304
<ubottu> Freedesktop bug 19304 in Driver/intel "[i945 FBC] spontaneous black screen (major pipe-A underrun)" [Major,Reopened]
<pitti> bryce: oh, I assigned that to me in Ubuntu
<pitti> bryce: I updated the ubuntu bug and called for testing
<bryce> ah ok great
<pitti> bryce: I can handle that if you want me to
<bryce> sure, that'd be a help
<pitti> (have a test package in ppa)
<pitti> bryce: sleep well! great work
 * bryce --> Zzz
<chrisccoulson> hi asac, i haven't been working on tracker specifically, but I can dedicate some time to go through some of the old bug reports
<asac> chrisccoulson: do you have access to crashes?
<asac> chrisccoulson: i am mostly concerned about the crashes ... that they get opened up
<asac> chrisccoulson: if you want i can give you a python script that removes CoreDump and open ups
<chrisccoulson> tbh, a lot of the old crashers can probably be closed. the codebase has changed significantly between 0.6.6 and 0.6.90 and probably makes a lot of them obsolete
<chrisccoulson> i can access the crashers, so i can probably go through some of them later
<seb128> we should autoclose all the < 0.6.90 crashers
<asac> chrisccoulson: yeah thats true. crashers are usually only useless if done in a timely fashion ... but we should take care that that happens in future at least
<seb128> asking to try again in jaunty saying it has been rewritten
<asac> s/only useless/only useful/
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i think we should probably close the old crashers now too
<seb128> that's for tracker
<chrisccoulson> i can maybe do some of that over my lunch break
<seb128> I think we should also autoclose all the apport-crash bugs reported before hardy and which didn't get an update since they have been opened too
<seb128> we have so much useless cruft there
<davmor2> indicator applet keeps losing evo.  When I use alltray on evo
<chrisccoulson> davmor2 - bug 345599?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 345599 in indicator-applet "indicator applet disappears" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/345599
<davmor2> chrisccoulson: no applet doesn't disappear only evolutions entry in it.
<davmor2> chrisccoulson: pidgin's stays in
<chrisccoulson> might still be the same bug though. for me, they both disappear eventually, causing the applet to hide
<davmor2> chrisccoulson: Ah right thanks
<asac> mvo: do you know if scott richie is online somewhere/somtimes?
<pitti> asac: YokoZar
<pitti> in #ubuntu-devel
<asac> cool. great
<mvo> asac: yes, what pitti said
 * pitti hugs seb128 for nailing bug 325973
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 325973 in nautilus "gnome-session keeps respawning nautilus when no desktop is drawed" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/325973
<mvo> seb128: when update-manager did its auto-launch dance, what gconf entry has "regular_auto_launch_interval" ?
 * seb128 backs from lunch
 * seb128 hugs pitti
<seb128> mvo: no idea I didn't snapshot the system, it's set to 7 right now
<mvo> seb128: but its very likely that it was 7 then too, you did not change it in between
<mvo> ?
<seb128> no I didn't change anything
<seb128> I'm acting normal user on this box
<seb128> davidbarth: hi
<seb128> davidbarth: you forgot to push your notify-osd changes?
<seb128> mvo: ahah, got the bug again!
<seb128> mvo: I set the key to 0, used synaptic and
<seb128> (update-notifier:8262): update-DEBUG: is_package_system_locked: 0
<seb128> (update-notifier:8262): update-DEBUG: interval_days from gconf: 0
<seb128> (update-notifier:8262): update-DEBUG: update_apt_is_running: 0
<seb128> that's "update-notifier --debug-updates"
<mvo> seb128: by setting it to 0 this is expected, it will auto-launch every time something is there to update
<seb128> mvo: well should it run after each package installed in synaptic?
<seb128> mvo: I don't do an apt-get update or anything
<seb128> mvo: the situation was similar the other day, the value was 7 and I had 7 days of non updates
<seb128> mvo: it if I use synaptic 10 times today I will get update-manager auto opening 10 times
<seb128> re
<seb128> mvo: what debug flag should I be using?
<mvo> seb128: --debug-updates --debug-inotify
<seb128> ok, so I run it, update-manager starts, I close it
<seb128> until there that's what I expect
<seb128> now I open synaptic because I want to update jockey
<seb128> I install jockey
<seb128> update-manager opens again
<seb128> is that expected?
<mvo> seb128: that is with auto-open interval set to "0" ? then yes. in your 7 days case (yesterday) it should have noticed that dpkg was run and should not auto-open
<seb128> bah
<seb128> so that is not a good way to simulate the situation
<seb128> what does it compare the 7 days to?
 * seb128 kicks bzr too, stupid thing
<seb128> stop telling me to use bzr upgrade, I did it 15 times now
<mvo> seb128: gconf timestamp when u-m was run, /var/log/dpkg.log /var/log/apt/term.log
<mvo> mtime and ctime
<mvo> whatever is newer
<mvo> that is what puzzles me :/
<mvo> that it shuld not happen (but then, bugs never should)
<seb128> mvo: is there a way to change the ctime?
<pitti> seb128: you want to change the ctime of a file?
<seb128> pitti: yes
<seb128> touch change the mtime and atime but not the ctime apparently
<pitti> touch --time=ctime -r reference-file file
<seb128> what is reference-file?
<pitti> a file which has the time you want to set "file" to
<pitti> seb128: if you need an arbitrary time, I'd recomend python -c 'import os; os.utime()'
<pitti> ah no, doens't change ctime
<fta2> hi, my syslog is flooded with messages from indicator-applet, is that expected? http://paste.ubuntu.com/142020/
<seb128> hey fta2, you only join this channel to report bugs nowadays ;-)
<seb128> I would say that's a bug, open it on launchpad
<chrisccoulson> fta2 - bug 346513
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 346513 in indicator-applet ""dbus-daemon: Rejected send message" for indicator-applet spams /var/log/auth.log" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/346513
<fta2> seb128, i'm always there as 'fta'. all my other clones are bug reporters ;)
<fta2> chrisccoulson, ok, thanks
<fta2> <fta2> seb128, i'm always there as 'fta'. all my other clones are bug reporters ;)
<seb128> ah ;-)
<fta2> i'm fta only on my main desktop at home
<fta2> asac, what did you do with your gtk2 patch for ia32-libs? any progress?
<fta2> asac, i'm still getting the infamous Gtk-Message: Failed to load module "canberra-gtk-module": /usr/lib/gtk-2.0/modules/libcanberra-gtk-module.so: wrong ELF class: ELFCLASS64
<asac> let me check if i still have that
 * asac hopes he didnt revert it to hack on something else
<chrisccoulson> pitti - re bug 351122 - remember that the latest version of glib doesn't convert "%U" in to a URI now where a local path name exists (it substitutes with the local path name instead)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 351122 in gthumb "gthumb doesn't work with gphoto (was please disable gphoto2 backend for Jaunty)" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/351122
<chrisccoulson> i don't know if that messes up your fix, as I can't test it yet
<chrisccoulson> but that behaviour is different from intrepid
<pitti> chrisccoulson: right, that's why I reopened it
<chrisccoulson> cool - i wasn't sure if you were aware of that or not, and i wasn't sure if that's what was causing the regression
<seb128> hey rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> hey seb128
<seb128> vuntz: do you know how the dbus session bus is started on opensuse? do you let gnome-session start it?
<pitti> hey rickspencer3, good morning
 * pitti crosses another 4 bugs from ReleaseStatus
<kenvandine_wk> pitti: woot!
<mvo> seb128: I just checked, the code that checks the dpkg and apt log stamps was added 1 march - if the update-notifier running was older than that, that would explain the launching you have seen. I just used a little python script to unset my gconf launch time and the mtimes of the logs, but I did not get the auto launch madness that you had, it correctly read the timestamps from the logs
<seb128> mvo: I've not been able to change the ctime to test, I might play with hwclock later
<mvo> seb128: I hacked it to set ctime to a very old date iinside update-notifier (os.utime seems to just change mtime). but the effect should be the same
<mvo> seb128: so no luck, sorry :(
<seb128> mvo: don't worry that's a small issue
<seb128> mvo: I'm sure I updated before going to London and I stopped the desktop the week I was not there
<seb128> so I was running the mar 1 version or never for sure
<seb128> I set it to 1 day now
<seb128> I will try again tomorrow
<mvo> seb128: maybe you can set the --debug options in the autostart file? so that those are captured in any case?
<seb128> will do
<mvo> thanks
<seb128> pitti: I updated notify-osd to 0.9.8, let me know if I screwed again the bzr ;-)
<seb128> pitti: the amd64 retracer crashed again on "KeyError: 'Stacktrace'", I removed the lock I think the retry worked yesterday without untagging
<mpt> rickspencer3, good morning, do you have time for a call about package management?
<rickspencer3> mpt: I will later
<rickspencer3> prolly in an hour or so
<mpt> rickspencer3, ok, I'll ask again in an hour :-)
<pitti> seb128: hm, since yesterday or today, gnome-panel hangs for me on every startup; I need to open a terminal and killall gnome-panel
<pitti> is that known?
<seb128> no
<seb128> or there is a similar bug but no useful informations there
<pitti> ok, I'll give it some more attention then
<seb128> get a stacktrace if possible
<seb128> the only change yesterday was a patch to better handle multiple monitor situations
<pitti> or it's indicator-applet causing a hang or so
<pitti> seb128: notify-osd> looks fine! I usually add the changelog when merging from trunk, not in the commit after, but that's just nitpicking
<seb128> pitti: ok good ;-)
<seb128> pitti: thanks again for the explanations yesterday
<dobey> pitti: hey!
<dobey> pitti: do you know if it's sensible/possible for a distutils Command to return something from run()?
<dobey> or is it supposed to return None always?
<pitti> dobey: I don't think it makes sense to return something; you can save internal state in the command object, though
<dobey> pitti: well i'm just wondering how to handle failures of things like pylint, pydoctor, unittest, trial test, etc...
<dobey> pylint is a more special case i think though
<pitti> dobey: raise DistutilsExecError perhaps?
<pitti> or DistutilsSetupError
<pitti> or a simple assert will probably do as well
<kenvandine_wk> pitti: can you sponsor indicate-python for me?
<kenvandine_wk> bug 344936
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 344936 in indicator-applet "initial packaging of indicate-python" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/344936
<pitti> kenvandine_wk: can you please subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors and me? I'm quite busy ATM
<pitti> I'll try to do it ASAP
<kenvandine_wk> sure
<kenvandine_wk> i already subscribed ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<kenvandine_wk> will add you
<kenvandine_wk> thx!
<mpt> argh
<mpt> rickspencer3, there was one more thing I needed to discuss
<rickspencer3> mpt: ok, I have a call in 3 mins :(
<rickspencer3> after that?
<mpt> rickspencer3, and that is that either bug 333284 or bug 353195 really really should be fixed for 9.04
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 333284 in compiz "With focus_on_map = FALSE, window still opens in front" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/333284
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 353195 in update-manager "When started automatically, should open minimized and request attention" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/353195
<mpt> because otherwise, Update Manager grabs focus when you're running Compiz.
<rickspencer3> mpt: ok
<mpt> Can you arrange that?
<rickspencer3> those are foundation bugs, mvo has those
<rickspencer3> mpt: I'll check it out when I get a chance
<mpt> thanks
<mvo> mpt, rickspencer3: sorry that I have not acted on those yet, there is a bunch of upgrade problems (mostly with python) that also need attention. and especially the compiz stacking fix is not trivial
<rickspencer3> mvo: we know you're working hard in priority order
 * pitti whistles and ditches another desktop RC bug
 * kenvandine_wk -> lunch
<seb128> pitti: which one did you tackle now? ;-)Ã 
<pitti> bug 349621
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 349621 in apport "real kerneloops and suspend/hibernate/resume bugs are hard to separate" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/349621
<pitti> apparently an easy one
<pitti> but I was working on apport anyway
<pitti> and that one drove the kernel guys crazy
 * pitti -> dinner
<pitti> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus -> 6 to go, go desktop team!
<pitti> I updated the list this morning with everything desktop-ish from jaunty/+bugs, so it should be fairly complete
<crevette> http://tuxradar.com/content/ubuntu-rewrite-linux-kernel-using-mono :)
<seb128> pitti: I think you can drop the tracker one from there since we don't install it by default
<seb128> pitti: and chriscoulson should get the new tracker packaged soon
<lool> asac: I mailed ubuntu-mobile to ask whether anybody was still using MBF; nobody replied...
<lool> asac: I think you can drop it like tomorrow or in two days
<lool> asac: Thanks for pinging about this BTW
<asac> lool: yeah. already filed the removal bug for xulrunner and subscribed -archive
<asac> guess we should add mobile-basic-flash there too
<lool> asac: TY
<asac> bug 352968
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 352968 in xulrunner "remove xulrunner 1.8 and all left over rdepend binaries from jaunty archive." [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/352968
<asac> lool: ok added mbf
<lool> asac: Thanks
<asac> lool: whats the support status of mbf in hardy?
<asac> lool: can you find someone to check the xul 1.8 packages we have in https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozilla-security/+archive/ppa
<asac> for hardy
<lool> Thanks
<asac> otherwise those will just go out
<lool> asac: Please push as soon as ready; we're only supporting it via a PPA
<asac> ok
<lool> asac: Frankly, I don't see myself having the time to look at this in the coming days; too many issues to look at for final
<lool> asac: Could you shoot me an email about that?
<dobey> pitti: still around?
<seb128> Ampelbein: hi, do you want to do a lib update?
<Ampelbein> seb128: hi. sure, if you got the nerve to stand some nagging questions by me ;-)
<seb128> Ampelbein: ok, so http://download.gnome.org/sources/totem-pl-parser/2.26/totem-pl-parser-2.26.1.tar.gz is for you
<Ampelbein> ok
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - just doing the tracker merge now. should we drop the patch that disables indexing by default, as it's not on the default install now is it? users who install it manually probably expect it to index without having to explicitly enable it
<seb128> chrisccoulson: no, people upgrading still have it installed
<seb128> we need to sort that but it's late for a such change
<seb128> next cycle
<chrisccoulson> ah, ok
<chrisccoulson> i'll leave it in for now then
<seb128> thanks
<chrisccoulson> you're welcome
<Ampelbein> seb128: 353412
<seb128> Ampelbein: thanks
<Ampelbein> seb128: erm bug #353412
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 353412 in totem-pl-parser "Please sponsor version 2.26.1 in jaunty" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/353412
<Ampelbein> no problem.
<Ampelbein> seb128: what library do you want me to update?
<seb128> Ampelbein: that was it
<Ampelbein> hmm. that was not too complicated.
<seb128> indeed
<seb128> did you check if they changed symbols?
<Ampelbein> i ran check-symbols totem-pl-parser
<seb128> ok good
<Ampelbein> if a symbol has changed, how do i find out what package depends on it?
<Ampelbein> do i just go through the rdepends of the library-file?
<seb128> to do what?
<seb128> if there is a new symbol the shlibs needs to be updated
<Ampelbein> to see what packages could be broken.
<seb128> if they broke ABI the soname need to be changed and the library binary package name too
<seb128> apt-cache rdepends library
<seb128> nothing breaks
<seb128> if they break compatibility the soname has to change
<seb128> the old version stay available
<seb128> and we rebuild things against the new one
<seb128> lut huats
<Ampelbein> ah, ok. i think i understood the general way to go. but i will need to read a bit more about shlibs.
<huats> hello seb128
<huats> how are yuou ?
<seb128> good, you?
<seb128> how are SL?
<huats> good and very tired :)
<huats> SL are great
<huats> lots of people
<seb128> how is the ubuntu stand? ;-)
<huats> and lots of people interested in ubuntu :)
<huats> the ubuntu stand is GREAT
<huats> and the ubuntu-fr one is quite nice too ;)
<seb128> excellent
<huats> yep
<didrocks> hi seb128 :)
<seb128> lut didrocks
<huats> seb128: don't bother to ask didrocks how the ubuntu-fr booth is... we barely seem him....
<huats> ;)
<didrocks> huats: you are a liar, you are always slackering in other booths :)
<huats> seb128: you can ask anyone... you know me...
<didrocks> just give me two minutes, that I can kill hyperair first who just drop one of my patchâ¦
<seb128> didrocks: so you really meant it ;-)
<huats> :)
<didrocks> seb128: excellent :-)
<didrocks> I'm sure he read this and just disconnect his computer with the cable :p
<Ampelbein> seb128: strange. when doing the check-symbols in my pbuilder-chroot it gives no changes. From my live-system it gives one dropped symbol: http://paste.ubuntu.com/142332/
<Ampelbein> seb128: will this be a problem? [22:54] <Ampelbein> seb128: strange. when doing the check-symbols in my pbuilder-chroot it gives no changes. From my live-system it gives one dropped symbol: http://paste.ubuntu.com/142332/
<seb128> Ampelbein: that seems a non public symbol and not an issue
<seb128> Ampelbein: ie it's not defined in the .h installed
<Ampelbein> ok, thanks.
<dennda> Is the indicator applet introduced in Jaunty able to keep track of new mails in thunderbird? Looking at the source I wasn't that much enlighted
<rickspencer3> dennda: the applet is a container, any app can use it
<rickspencer3> I suspect that asac is working on tb integration, but I'm not 100% certain
<dennda> rickspencer3: What must the app do?
<rickspencer3> dennda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotificationDevelopmentGuidelines
<rickspencer3> it's real simple
<rickspencer3> that link shows how to use notify-osd
<rickspencer3> let me see if I can get you a link on indicator-applet integration
<dennda> well that's some change that needs to be hacked into thunderbird, correct?
<asac> dennda: the idea is to make a generic indicator service in xulrunner that can be used by tbird or other xul mail/messaging apps
<asac> thunderbird would then need some hacking to properly use that
<dennda> Yeah
<dennda> so something for 9.10
<asac> yes
<dennda> or a 3rd party package
<asac> definitly not before tbird 3 ;)
<asac> upstream will probably not get that before 3.1; but if we have a good solution (or a good intermediate one), we want to pick that to tbird 3
<dennda> would be great...
<dennda> because right now that indicator applet just displays pidgins messages, and that's kinda pointless
<dennda> (and I can't use evolution)
<rickspencer3> dennda: there are a few other apps that use it as well, but missing tb is painful
<asac> yes. the indicator framework came too late to migrate many apps on it.
<rickspencer3> lots of people prefer it as their mail client
<asac> i would have loved to fix my preferred messenter
<asac> too (gajim)
<seb128> and xchat-gnome
<asac> ++
<Nafallo> GAJIM!
<Nafallo> :-D
<asac> Nafallo: cool. so we can work together on that ;)
<asac> or at least poke upstream from two sides ;)
<Nafallo> asac: they've been poked from a 3rd party, and are not interested :-(
<dennda> if it's really that simple it shouldn't be to hard to hack it into gajim...
<dennda> for the ubuntu package
<asac> dennda: last time i looked we lacked python wrappers ;)
<asac> so that would be the first step
<dennda> ah
<dennda> ok
<dennda> you should have those anyways...
<Nafallo> yeah. the applet didn't look very simple when I checked :-)
<rickspencer3> asac: kenvandine_wk and tedg created python wrapper for indicator-applet
<rickspencer3> it looked very very easy
<Nafallo> oooh
<Nafallo> hmmm
<dobey> oh man
<rickspencer3> not sure where it is
<asac> rickspencer3: creating them is easy enough
<asac> we need them in the archive though
<dobey> i wish i had time to write all the code that's in my head
<asac> at best generated by indicator applet build or something
<rickspencer3> I was going to say, I thought it was headed for universe, but not sure what happened
<asac> ok
<rickspencer3> dobey: keep in mind that both food and sleep can be replaced with coffee
<asac> most likely fell off the radar due to overload ;)
<rickspencer3> kenvandine_wk: ^^^ ?
<dobey> rickspencer3: not really for me. i'm pretty much immune to caffeine
<rickspencer3> or maybe the api wasn't "settled" enough
<seb128> as asac would say, "sleep is for the weaks" ;-)
<dobey> i drew some awesome mock-ups the other day though
<dobey> on paper anyway
<dobey> need to make real mock-ups
<asac> dobey: mockups about what?
<asac> about all the code you have in your head ? ;)
<dobey> asac: part of it. better contacts UI
<dobey> buddy list/address book stuff
<jcastro> asac: Nafallo: there's a gwibber branch already consuming the m-i python stuff if you want to look at that
<asac> jcastro: is that m-i python stuff in universe?
<jcastro> not sure, I think kenvandine_wk knows
<jcastro> I don't think it is yet
<asac> Nafallo: why do you think gajim folks dont want m-i support? last time i submitted a patch they were quite friendly and open to new ideas ;)
<asac> which was years ago though
<dobey> jcastro: does that branch have the AIR rewrite too?
<jcastro> dobey: no that was april fools
<dobey> yeah i know
<Nafallo> ehrm
<Nafallo> oh
<Nafallo> wow
<Nafallo> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gajim/+bug/340213
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 340213 in gajim "[jaunty] Use indicator-applet for new messages" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<Nafallo> asac: http://trac.gajim.org/ticket/4914
<asac> kenvandine_wk: in the gajim bug you say you submitted the patch upstream ...  i dont see any patch there
<asac> (nor in launchpad)
<asac> or did you mean to say "Bug submitted upstream"?
<Nafallo> asac: http://trac.gajim.org/attachment/ticket/4942/add-indicator-support.patch
<asac> Nafallo: darn
<asac> kenvandine_wk: nevermind
<asac> i am officially web-site-blind
<jcastro> 2 different tickets for some reason
<asac> oh indeed. good catch
<asac> that explains it
<jcastro> I quite like gajim also
<Nafallo> :-D
<asac> its the best jabber client for sure
<Nafallo> there is a reason I refuse to go away from it myself, and it's not only maintainership :-)
<jcastro> it'd be nice if the look and feel were more gnomeish, like maybe a pidgin theme for it or something
<asac> jcastro: which parts are not gnomish?
<asac> status icons?
<jcastro> yeah
<Nafallo> jcastro: have you got "human" set still? ;-)
<jcastro> yeah
<jcastro> I guess it's mostly the status icons
<Nafallo> jcastro: you can change those though... use the same as pidgin :-)
<Nafallo> no. I mean gossip :-P
<asac> seb128: can you poke firefox 3.5 through new ... its firefox-3.1 just that upstream bumped the version so we want to get that in before release (in order to being able to properly provide security updates)
<asac> also thats universe
<asac> we have the transition in -daily archive for a while. so its tested
<seb128> asac: done
<asac> many thanks
<asac> given that lp is down for a few hours we will do the binaries tomorrow i guess ;)
<seb128> asac: lp website down doesn't mean than soyuz and the datacenter are down
<asac> yeah ;)
<asac> but i cannot see if build has finished ;)
<seb128> but I will probably be in bed before having the binaries available
<seb128> I can as well get sleep if lp is down, can't triage bugs
<asac> right. today sleeping is for the brave and honorous ... a sensible action actually ;)
<seb128> ;-)
<chrisccoulson> asac - i've just finished the tracker merge. how did you recreate this bug you were speaking about earlier? i can test it on my box now
<asac> chrisccoulson: create a directory on Desktop
<asac> put a file in it
<asac> go to tracker preferences and only select that folder
<chrisccoulson> thanks. i'll try that
<asac> after restarting and all that ... it will start to index
<asac> observe what the tooltip says (it never made sense to me)
<asac> also check that the tracker-indexer goes made and consumes all cycles forever ;)
<asac> mad
<chrisccoulson> "Done: 87 of 2233"
<chrisccoulson> lol
<asac> tracker notification could deserve a good icon
<asac> chrisccoulson: see what i mean
<asac> chrisccoulson: so i think removing all the caches helps a bit
<asac> i did that but then i ended up with indexer going mad
<chrisccoulson> i might give that a go
<asac> and the tooltip doesnt make more sense
<chrisccoulson> but my machine is becoming barely useable now
<asac> it still indexes 425 files
<asac> but never gets further than 25 files for me
<asac> chrisccoulson: my main complaint is really that i can nowhere see what its currently indexing
<chrisccoulson> yeah, thats not very ideal
<chrisccoulson> i don't really understand the tooltip at all. when you open the statistics window, it say something completely different
<asac> its completely broken
<asac> ;)
<asac> thats my perception
<asac> so two main issues: a) tracker indexes just indexes random things (doesnt honour pref); b) tracker-indexer seems to hang/loop on some files so it just consumes 100% of a core and never finishes
<asac> unfortunately i dont know how to see which file its processing
<asac> well i could i guess. but i didnt try to find out.
<chrisccoulson> hmmmmm
<chrisccoulson> i've just attached strace to tracker-indexer
<asac> chrisccoulson: does your indexing show progress now?
<asac> e.g. Done: 87 of 2233
<chrisccoulson> its up to 1067
<asac> are you at least at 88 now ;)?
<asac> oh not bad
<seb128> you have a tracker-status tool no?
<asac> for me its at 23 of 435 for  minutes
<asac> seb128: that isnt really verbose for me:
<asac>  tracker-status -d
<asac> Tracker status is 'Indexing'
<asac> ;)
<asac> -d == --detailed
<chrisccoulson> ewww
<chrisccoulson> it's spewing loads of stuff to a log file
<asac> chrisccoulson: where?
<chrisccoulson> i can see a timestamp being written over and over again in strace
<chrisccoulson> the file is ~/..local/share/tracker/tracker-indexer.log
<asac> ouch
<asac> so most likely that doesnt exist at all ;)
<chrisccoulson> the file is up to 4.9MB after a couple of minutes
<asac> so its looping trying to flush a log queue or something ;)
<chrisccoulson> probably
<asac> chrisccoulson: err ... where do you have that file
<chrisccoulson> looking at the strace, it doesn't seem to be touching much else
<asac> i dont have ~/../local ;)
<chrisccoulson> oops
<chrisccoulson> ~/.local
<chrisccoulson> my bad
<asac> chrisccoulson: ok so its obvious
<asac> i get "02 Apr 2009, 00:14:56: Tracker-Warning **: Could not store word 'jederzeit': with fatal error"
<asac> so it definitly has problems with the output file or something
<asac> and retries deliberately forever
<chrisccoulson> thats what i see
<chrisccoulson> the strace only shows this, looping over and over again: http://pastebin.com/m53730230
<chrisccoulson> i haven't seen it do anything else, yet tracker-indexer is *supposedly* indexing and using a lot of CPU bandwidth too ;)
<chrisccoulson> maybe there's a build option to stop it doing that
<asac> err tracker_db_index_manager functions
<asac> seem not to be defined in the source
<asac> is that a separate package?
<asac> found it
<asac> blind me
<asac> what is g_get_user_cache_dir ?
<chrisccoulson> that's a glib function
<chrisccoulson> it should return ~/.cache
<asac> documentation says xdg dir
<asac> i dont see anything like that in /etc/xdg
<chrisccoulson> "Returns a base directory in which to store non-essential, cached data specific to particular user"
<asac> i can read ;)
<chrisccoulson> ;)
<chrisccoulson> that should be ~/.cache according to the XDG spec, i think
<asac> hmm
<asac> yeah
<asac> lets check if glib implements that
<seb128> asac: http://standards.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/basedir-spec-0.6.html
<seb128> asac: that's xdg's dir's spec
<asac> so glib implements this correctly
<asac> seb128: i know ;)
<asac> i was just curious why i couldnt get it with xdg-user-dirs command
<seb128> yes glib implement that spec correctly ;-)
<asac> but glib does the right thing
<seb128> xdg-user-dirs is to make localized folder for images, videos, etc
<seb128> ie for user visible directories
<asac> i would have hoped that they implement all dirs ;)
<asac> but well
<seb128> so your cache would change when you change locale?
<seb128> or your config?
<seb128> that would be weird
<seb128> what is the point of translating an implement detail
<asac> seb128: why does it need to be translated?
<seb128> that would make it bug prone
<asac> if thats the purpose of xdg-user-dirs i would hav enamed it xdg-l10n-dirs ;)
<seb128> well you are the one saying all dirs should be in xdg-user-dirs
<seb128> asac: it also let you customize the dirs to use for those
<seb128> but again customize the .local or .cache naming would only make it less robust
<asac> ok. so there is a difference for user dirs
<asac> i see
<seb128> for not real win
<asac> i wante xdg-base-dirs  then ;)
<asac> nevermind
<seb128> yeah gotcha
<dobey> well
<seb128> we don't have that, read the spec ;-)
<dobey> the xdg user dirs customization crack is supposed to allow for translating
<asac> command line wrappers for xdg arent that bad imo
<dobey> but eh, i don't think anyone actually takes the time to mess with that
<asac> dobey: yeah. got that now
<asac> not sure if having translated physical dirnames is really the way to go. i would think that apps like nautilus could provide a translated presentation ;)
<asac> but if xdg thinks so, its fine.
<asac> i assume that discussion was done before
<dobey> i think it's rather pointless
<dobey> i'd rather have it done in some way via a tag on the directory
<dobey> like "this is my music dir" or "this is my porn dir"
<seb128> asac: yeah, that has been discussed for over a year and both way had pro and con
<seb128> asac: the "translate in the UI" would mean than any applications no using the glib api would see the english names
<asac> well. atm all apps have to use xdg anyway. they could do the same for translating
<seb128> well not really
<seb128> you can browse the filesystem using any application
<seb128> and the "Desktop" directory there will be the same name as in your UI
<dobey> bash doesn't really deal well with translating directory names in the ui :)
<seb128> you need to use the xdg functions if you want to know "what is the default video directory" for example
<seb128> anyway it has been discussed for a long time
<seb128> and they decided on this way
<dobey> yes it has
<asac> yeah.
<asac> i think all this is pointless until we discuss tags and DB style file storage
<asac> if that ever happens is of course in the limbo ;)
<asac> good old trees probably wont go away for some time
<asac> ok i will remove tracker for now again
<asac> hope chrisccoulson finds out why the db cannot be written to
<chrisccoulson> i'm wondering if this is something to with the fact that we build against sqlite
<chrisccoulson> and debian don't
<chrisccoulson> i might try the debian build and see if that does the same
<asac> chrisccoulson: would be an option
<asac> what does tracker do if its not using sqlite?
<chrisccoulson> it uses qdbm i think
<seb128> open an upstream bug
<chrisccoulson> i'll try it with the default backend first
<chrisccoulson> just to see
<seb128> right
<dobey>   Depends: libsqlite3-0
<dobey> well it depends on it anyway :)
<asac> dobey: thats auto generated
<asac> so if we dont use it, it wont be there
<asac> or is that on debian?
<chrisccoulson> dobey - that's right. we pass a build option to make it build against sqlite for ubuntu
<chrisccoulson> but this is not the default, and not what debian use
<dobey> asac: no, why would i use debian? this is jaunty :)
<dobey> chrisccoulson: ah ok
<chrisccoulson> i shall have to try that tomorrow - it's getting late now
<chrisccoulson> anyone know what dpput and dpget do?
<chrisccoulson> on google, i only find references to qdbm
<seb128> no
<chrisccoulson> i'm going to build tracker against qdbm now. i'm starting to suspect that it's support for sqlite is broken
<seb128> good that we don't install tracker by default in jaunty ;-)
<chrisccoulson> it is
<chrisccoulson> if the sqlite support is broken, then we have a dilemma
<chrisccoulson> qdbm is in universe;)
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> but as said upstream seems to want to get the new version work on jaunty
<seb128> so they might look quickly at the issue if somebody opens a bug
<asac> chrisccoulson: can you please file it?
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i'll do that.
<asac> chrisccoulson: i think the info about the indexer warnings in log should be a good pointer for them
<asac> thanks
<seb128> ok time to sleep now
<seb128> have a good night everybody
<seb128> see you tomorrow
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-04-02
<chrisccoulson> asac - those messages go away with the qdbm backend
<chrisccoulson> and i've figured out why the numbers in the tooltip seem quite random
<chrisccoulson> it's indexing my evolution mail too
<asac> i didnt opt in for that ;)
<asac> ok off ;)
<pitti> Good morning
<JanC> hello
<JanC> is there any chance that the many bluetooth keyboard/mouse problems in Ubuntu will be fixed before jaunty release?  ;)
<JanC> (I have some people naging me about this--with lots of bugs dating back to 2006 and maybe earlier...)
<JanC> e.g. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/32415
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 32415 in bluez "Apple Bluetooth Mouse and Keyboard pairing broken in Dapper/Edgy/Feisty" [Medium,Fix released]
<seb128> good morning there
<crevette> hey seb128, already wake up ?
<seb128> lut crevette, "already"? I'm up for over an hour, I just start working now
 * pitti hugs seb128, bonjour
 * seb128 hugs pitti
<seb128> pitti: I see that you already cleaned the locks after the launchpad shutdown for upgrade of the night
<crevette> seb128, I see un upload from you at 4:20, so that why I wondered why you were already wake up
<pitti> seb128: hm, didn't touch it this morning yet, but I'll have a look
<seb128> crevette: launchpad was down from midnight to 3am so it's probably just a delayed accepted
<seb128> pitti: oh weird, they are running
<pitti> seb128: ah, LP rollout
<pitti> all just 503 errors
<seb128> pitti: yes, weird that the i386 one didn't crash
<seb128> pitti: I cleaned lock for amd64
<pitti> the i386 one crashed as well
<seb128> pitti: but ps ax | grep 386 shows one running
<pitti> ah, that was the hardy one
 * pitti removes lock
<seb128> I guess it's stucked
<pitti> ok, should be good now
<pitti> right, it's stuck in debian/rules patch again
<pitti> bah
<pitti> patch -f --no-backup-if-mismatch -p0 is hanging
 * pitti kills
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> grrrr at bzr
 * pitti wonders why patch application causes so much trouble
<pitti> seb128: what's up?
<seb128> it keeps telling me to bzr upgrade
<seb128> I've run the command a zillion time
<seb128> seems it make no difference
<seb128> it keep telling me to upgrade
<seb128> on the current desktop nautilus
<seb128> it prints starts conversion and that the conversion worked
<seb128> but then on next pull I still get the warning
<seb128> great
<seb128> and now it tells me that tags are not supported in this format
<seb128> grrrr
<pitti> hang on
<pitti> seb128: did it warn about the *local* or *remote* branch being out of date? and which one did you upgrade?
<seb128> bzr get lp:~ubuntu-desktop/nautilus/ubuntu
<seb128> you get the warning
<seb128> I did
<seb128> cd ubuntu
<seb128> bzr upgrade
<seb128> bzr push ... nothing to push
<pitti> seb128: no, that will only upgrade the local branch (which shouldn't be necessary in the first place)
<seb128> is that supposed to work differently?
<pitti> seb128: what did the warning say?
<pitti> I bet it said that the remote branch should be upgraded
<pitti> bzr upgrade lp:~ubuntu-desktop/nautilus/ubuntu
<seb128> it says that the format for file:///...../ubuntu is deprecated
<seb128> " please use 'bzr upgrade' to get better performance"
<seb128> which I've been doing
 * seb128 tries that one
<seb128> yeah for great error messages again
<seb128> it describe the local path and tell you to run a command which doesn't work
<seb128> ...
<seb128> (taking ages)
<pitti> seb128: can you please report this as a bug against bzr?
<seb128> pitti: that worked thanks
<seb128> pitti: will do
<pitti> seb128: I guess it wants you to use bzr upgrade --1.6 or so, but that should be the default then
<pitti> wow, really cool new features in this LP release
<seb128> pitti: no I tried to specify formats
<seb128> it wanted the lp: url
<seb128> and not just "upgrade"
<pitti> ah, so it was the remote branch after all
<pitti> that takes a while, yes
<seb128> mvo: hi
<seb128> mvo: can you review robert_ancell's change on bug #333284?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 333284 in compiz "With focus_on_map = FALSE, window still opens in front" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/333284
<mvo> seb128: sure
<seb128> thanks
<lool> seb128, davidbarth: rather here
<lool> davidbarth: seb128 isn't on -mobile
<davidbarth> lool: ok
<davidbarth> lool: are you sure that you can modify the environement early enough for it to be taken into account?
<davidbarth> lool: notify-osd is started by dbus, as part of the auto-activation service
<lool> davidbarth: in Xsession yes
<lool> That's before gnome-session and dbus-launch are started
<seb128> davidbarth: it's activated when a bubble is displayed for the first time no?
<seb128> which should be late in the login
<davidbarth> seb128: yes
<lool> I'd prefer an UNR specific place rather than Xsession.d, but I can't think of one
<lool> The thing is that UNR launches gnome-session like GNOME, so I don't see how to make the distinction
<seb128> use UpdateActivationEnvironment to propagate your environment to the dbus session?
<lool> Anyway this Xsession.d file will only be there on UNR installs
<davidbarth> lool: yes, the second question was how to make the difference between UNR & a normal gnome session
<seb128> that would work and be easy to do yes
<davidbarth> seb128, lool: i have to go for ~1h (doing a pres at SLOS)
<lool> davidbarth: k
<seb128> davidbarth: later
<mvo> seb128: it reverts the entire commit, I'm not sure that is the right way, it does code cleanup and probably fixing in this commit too. let me check a slightly different approach
<lool> seb128: The thing with a C version is that I can't think of an UNR process which starts early enough so that there's the guarantee of no bubbles
<lool> Oh there's one: maximus
<mvo> seb128: robert is US based?
<lool> But it might not be using dbus
<seb128> mvo: no, .au, he said he would be online around 10pm his time, ie in some hours
<seb128> mvo: wait for him if you have questions or comments
<lool> There's a dbus bdep, but I don't see any dbus code in maximus
<seb128> lool: your Xsession.d script is probably the easier way
<seb128> ok, changing computer and doing some testing, brb
<lool> njpatel: notify-osd works fine here (compositing not enabled), but there's no fading, it just disappears when I mouse over and reappears when I remove the mouse
<lool> davidbarth: Your patch wasn't needed!  :)
<njpatel> lool: right, there isn't fading without rgba, but it works pretty well imo
<lool> davidbarth: The fallback code works without the override
<lool> njpatel: Ok
<lool> njpatel: Just to make sure what I was seeing was normal
<lool> seb128: There was actually nothing to change in code for that notify-osd bug after all!
<seb128> lool: there was a misunderstanding on the composite manager detection thing?
<lool> Yes
<lool> It works apparently
<seb128> ok good
<seb128> so that was a non-bug ;-)
<pitti> hey seb128
<seb128> pitti: re
<lool> seb128: Exactly
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128
<seb128> how did the non sqlite run go?
<chrisccoulson> more successfully. it definately seems that the sqlite support is broken
<chrisccoulson> i'll report that upstream shortly when i get the chance
<seb128> thanks
<asac> seb128: in the meantime, 3.5 binaries ended up in the NEW queue ;). thanks!
<asac> seb128: urgh. armel hasnt build yet. nevermind
<seb128> asac: I can new for other archs if you want
<asac> seb128: let me look how long the builder queue is
<asac> seb128: ok 277 waiting in queue for armel ... so yes, please poke what exists now ;)
<seb128> asac: done
<asac> cool, cool, cool; one more thing to scratch from essential jaunty list
<seb128> asac: do you have an opinion on bug #349850?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 349850 in libgnome "Autohinter should be enabled by default in Jaunty to avoid font rendering inconsistencies" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/349850
<asac> let me read their arguments
<asac> seb128: so keith packard writes in his debconf form on this topic:
<asac> #Select 'Native' if you mostly use Bitstream Vera (the default in Debian) or any of the Microsoft fonts. Select 'Autohinter' if you  â  â mostly use other TrueType fonts. Select 'None' if you want blurry text.                                                             â
<asac> so we use Native
<asac> from what i understand Autohinter is good for inferior fonts
<asac> while good fonts should be better with what we have now by default
<asac> "Select 'Native' if you mostly use Bitstream Vera (the default in Debian) or any of the Microsoft fonts. Select 'Autohinter' if you mostly use other TrueType fonts. Select 'None' if you want blurry text."
<asac> personally, i dont by the argument that "full" hinting has to look better than "slight"
<asac> if that was true, there would be no need for anything different from "full" ;)
<asac> so i think its a none-issue. also we use "slight" by default
<seb128> ok, can you comment about that on the bug? ;-)
<seb128> thanks!
<asac> yeah
<asac> let me paste that
<asac> done
<seb128_> hey robert_ancell
<robert_ancell> seb128: hey seb
 * robert_ancell looks for his list of questions for seb128 :)
<seb128> robert_ancell: how was your day? I see you managed to fix the compiz issue
<robert_ancell> seb128: yes, made a patch to revert the behaviour.  I have a fix for the Rhythmbox issue but it's failing testing so going to finish that before going to bed
<seb128> ok
<robert_ancell> seb128: what was that panel calendar resize bug?  I can still reproduce it (in a slightly different way)
<seb128> robert_ancell: bug #188422?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 188422 in gnome-panel "date/time applet gets too large" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/188422
<robert_ancell> seb128: yeah - it's not reoccurring now but my country list is taller than my screen and it was triggering on the bottom one
<robert_ancell> i'll keep an eye and log if I can do it again
<seb128> tseliot: hi
<seb128> tseliot: is bug #337926 a duplicate of the issue you are tracking?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 337926 in xfree86-driver-synaptics "vino: mouse cursor stays in upper left corner" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/337926
<tseliot> seb128: no, I think it's a different issue
<seb128> ok
<seb128> tseliot: it's also a synaptic bug, comment say that downgrade the synaptic driver fix the issue
<tseliot> seb128: well, a lot of things changed between 0.99.3-2ubuntu3 and 0.15.2-0ubuntu7
<seb128> tseliot: well, they both mention the corner issue so I though it might be the same bug
<tseliot> seb128: what's the other bug you're referring to?
<seb128> tseliot: https://launchpad.net/bugs/320632
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 320632 in xfree86-driver-synaptics "tap-to-click and edge-scrolling broken in Jaunty" [Medium,In progress]
<seb128> tseliot: I just read "edge" in the description so I figured I would ask ;-)
<tseliot> seb128: ah, ok so it was the one I was thinking of. They are different bugs. In one bug edge refers to the edge of the touchpad in the other it refers to the edge of the screen
 * robert_ancell wishes string manipulation wasn't so tedious in C
<tseliot> seb128: but thanks for reporting
<seb128> ok, thanks
<seb128> robert_ancell: yeah, C is no fun compared to python for that ;-)
<kenvandine_wk> seb128: any idea why the ekiga update is held back?
<kenvandine_wk> bug 353768
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 353768 in ekiga "Upgrade from 3.0.1-1ubuntu2 to 3.2.0-0ubuntu1 held back" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/353768
<seb128> kenvandine_wk: cf the other channel
<robert_ancell> night all!
<mvo> kenvandine_wk:  apt keeps it back because it thinks that libpt2.4.2 is more important than 2.6
<mvo> kenvandine_wk: I have no good workaround yet
<kenvandine_wk> mvo: ok..
<Nafallo> kenvandine_wk: any news on the python bindings for gajim? if not, can you push it to the branch and I can work on some other bugs based on that? :-)
<kenvandine_wk> Nafallo: i will do it in just a few minutes :)
<Nafallo> kenvandine_wk: ta. enough time for me to figure out what password I used on this ssh-key :-P
<kenvandine_wk> Nafallo: attached the debdiff and requested sponsorship :)
<kenvandine_wk> Nafallo: i made indicate-python Recommends
<kenvandine_wk> so you only get the indicator if it is installed, but it works fine without it
<kenvandine_wk> and indicate-python is still waiting to be sponsored as well
<Nafallo> kenvandine_wk: you, my friend. rock! :-)
<Nafallo> asac: go sponsor indicate-python :-)
<asac> where is it?
<Nafallo> kenvandine_wk: ^-- :-)
<kenvandine_wk> asac: bug 344936
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 344936 in indicator-applet "initial packaging of indicate-python" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/344936
<Nafallo> \o/
<kenvandine_wk> Nafallo: after this gets some use... we might want to patch gajim to behave more like the default pidgin setup is now
<kenvandine_wk> Nafallo: like not showing the notifiation icon by default
<kenvandine_wk> but i didn't go that far yet :)
 * kenvandine_wk doesn't actually use gajim
<Nafallo> hmm. I use rightclick on that icon all the time personally.
<Nafallo> let's see what the community have to say ;-)
<asac> kenvandine_wk: no packaging branch?
<kenvandine_wk> asac: no... i guess i should have done that from the get go :/
<kenvandine_wk> let me do that quick
<kenvandine_wk> should be a good exercise for me
<asac> kenvandine_wk: yeah ;)
<asac> kenvandine_wk: is there an upstream branch?
<kenvandine_wk> yes
<asac> ah good
<kenvandine_wk> should i put the packaging branch there or on ubuntu-desktop?
<kenvandine_wk> ok, looks like indicator-applet packaging is in the same project
<asac> kenvandine_wk: you can put it on your own account
<asac> kenvandine_wk: i can push it to ~ubuntu-dev (if its universe)
<kenvandine_wk> asac: it will go to universe
<asac> or put it on ubuntu-desktop if thats the Maintainer
<asac> kenvandine_wk: is Desktop or MOTU maintainer?
<kenvandine_wk> i assumed desktop... it will eventually probably move to main
<kenvandine_wk> asac: can i just put it in the indicator-applet project?
 * kenvandine_wk is following the applet as an example
<kenvandine_wk> for consistency :)
<asac> kenvandine_wk: yes. usually we use ~team/upstream-project/ubuntu
<kenvandine_wk> ok... the applet is like this
<kenvandine_wk> lp:~indicator-applet-developers/indicator-applet/applet-packaging
<asac> kenvandine_wk: use the same project the upstream branch is in
<kenvandine_wk> i am a member of that team
<kenvandine_wk> ok
<kenvandine_wk> good
<asac> kenvandine_wk: well. we will push the branch to the Maintainer: area imo
<asac> so ~ubuntu-desktop or -dev
<kenvandine_wk> sure
<asac> you can maintain that packaging as part of the upstream team too
<kenvandine_wk> i can just commit them in the team area for now
<asac> but imo we should have it somewhere were all team members can commit
<kenvandine_wk> yeah... so you can just merge it right?
<asac> kenvandine_wk: right. maybe add the Vcs-Bzr header so one can spot it easily
<asac> in debian/control
<kenvandine_wk> yeah
<kenvandine_wk> will do
<kenvandine_wk> asac:  Vcs-Bzr: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev/indicate-python/ubuntu
<kenvandine_wk> asac: right?
<asac> that looks good.
<asac> kenvandine_wk: so its MOTU?
<kenvandine_wk> yes
<asac> kenvandine_wk: ok
 * Nafallo converts all patches against gajim to dpatches :-P
<kenvandine_wk> asac:  lp:~indicator-applet-developers/indicator-applet/indicate-python-packaging
<kenvandine_wk> asac: pushed :)
<asac> kenvandine_wk: first look is quite good. i think it should depend on python-gtk2 .... also the test files have no license (upstream); also use Maintainer: Ubuntu MOTU Developers (look at other packages) and use you as the Original-Maintainer if you want
<asac> or isnt gtk2 python needed at all?
<kenvandine_wk> asac: it isn't
<kenvandine_wk> asac: the test files shouldn't be in the tarball
 * kenvandine_wk updates maintainer
<asac> kenvandine_wk: why not ship the testfiles with proper licenses as "docs" ?
<kenvandine_wk> dunno... that is a question for eeejay_afk
<kenvandine_wk> asac: i pushed the maintainer update
<asac> kenvandine_wk: so maybe python-gobject is required?
<kenvandine_wk> ah... yes
<asac> at least you build depend on gtk2-dev
<kenvandine_wk> python-gtk2-dev
<kenvandine_wk> i think something in the autotools chain there needed that to build in pbuilder
<kenvandine_wk> but
<kenvandine_wk> looking at the code... i don't see anything that directly imports from it
<asac> kenvandine_wk: maybe gobject-dev? or are there some tools in it?
<kenvandine_wk> asac: not sure
<kenvandine_wk> i think some of this stuff was copied from indicator-applet
<kenvandine_wk> so might be able to be cleaned up
<kenvandine_wk> tedg: i found an easy fix for raising the pidgin blist window with dbus-send :)
<tedg> kenvandine_wk: Oh, what's that?
<kenvandine_wk> PurpleBlistSetVisible int32:1
<kenvandine_wk> tedg: raises it if it is closed, min, or in the background
<tedg> kenvandine_wk: Cool!
<kenvandine_wk> tedg: i hate that clicking pidgin in the indicator the first time doesn't raise it...
<kenvandine_wk> if it is open, and not focused
<kenvandine_wk> it hides it
<kenvandine_wk> on first click
<kenvandine_wk> second click raises it
<kenvandine_wk> drives me bonkers
<tedg> ?  I don't think we're doing anything odd there.
<kenvandine_wk> tedg: is that the desired behavior?
<tedg> No, we're just calling purple_show().  Not doing anything exciting.
<asac> sounds like a bug for an outsider ;)
<kenvandine_wk> tedg: mind if i take a stab at fixing it?
<tedg> kenvandine_wk: No problem, I'm guessing that'll be in Pidgin not in the plugin though.
<kenvandine_wk> ok
<tedg> kenvandine_wk: See what happens with the notification area plugin first.
<kenvandine_wk> i will look
<asac> kenvandine_wk: i run out now
<asac> bbl
<kenvandine_wk> asac: ok
 * kenvandine_wk goes to lunch
<asac> kenvandine_wk: let me know when the depends are fixed :) ... also fix the license of the tests please and ship them as part of the package i would suggest
 * Nafallo uploads gajim to his PPA
<dobey> pitti: do you know if/how i can get at the name= argument to setup() from distutils.core.Command()?
<pitti> dobey: sorry, I don't
<dobey> :-/
 * Nafallo uploads gajim to Jaunty
<dobey> yay
<dobey> self.distribution.get_name()
<dobey> hrmm. i guess testing distutils commands is kind of difficult
<pitti> seb128: hm, if I plug in my camera now, I don't get the "what do you want to do with it" dialog any more; does that work for you?
<seb128> pitti: what nautilus version do you run?
<seb128> pitti: I broke that yesterday and fixed it this morning normally
<pitti> dist-upgraded this morning, rebooted 2 hours ago
<pitti> 1:2.26.0-0ubuntu6
<seb128> pitti: upgrade
<seb128> -0ubuntu7 you want
<pitti> ah, thanks
<seb128> pitti: btw while you are there
<pitti> seb128: I'll tackle gthumb/f-spot now
<pitti> I think gthumb doesn't unmount any more (bug 351122)
<pitti> I'm here all the time :)
<seb128> how often is ddebs.ubuntu.com updated?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 351122 in gthumb "gthumb doesn't work with gphoto (was please disable gphoto2 backend for Jaunty)" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/351122
<seb128> pitti: what about f-spot?
 * pitti upgrades and hugs seb128
<seb128> pitti: that should unmount correct
<pitti> seb128: I'll check both
<seb128> +ly
 * seb128 hugs pitti
<seb128> pitti: and about ddebs update?
<pitti> seb128: ddeb.u.c.> every 8 hours
<seb128> ok, I will wait a bit then
<seb128> thanks
<pitti> it's darn slow, sorry
 * pitti wants ddebs in soyuz
<seb128> that's ok
<seb128> I just want to get a debug stacktrace for a gvfs crash I ran into
 * pitti handholds his retracers a bit more
<seb128> I uploaded the new version this morning
<pitti> they seem to not fall over right now
<seb128> good!
<pitti> seb128: just in case you have to look up/quick fix something while I'm not there next week: the version in the retracers is lp:~pitti/apport/api.launchpadlib/
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - some upstream tracker developers commented on the merge request i did yesterday. the debian maintainer has suggested we enable the new evo plugin. what do you think?
<pitti> I filed a MIR for python-launchpadlib and a FFE for merging this into the jaunty package
<seb128> chrisccoulson: that's a good idea
<chrisccoulson> the current evo plugin only indexes the old summary files apparently, so doesn't work now
<seb128> pitti: ok thanks
<seb128> chrisccoulson: right, I though the new one was installed but not working in debian
<seb128> chrisccoulson: that was mentionned in the changelog but not clear
<pitti> eww, killall nautilus doesn't auto-respawn any more
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - the new one doesn't get installed unless the build-depends are installed
 * pitti remembers the workaround hack
<seb128> pitti: nautilus --browse &
<chrisccoulson> the old one is installed conditionally, but upstream are talking about just completely removing that now
<chrisccoulson> conditionally - unconditionally
<chrisccoulson> ->
<seb128> ok
<chrisccoulson> d'oh
<seb128> get us the new one ;-)
<seb128> any news about the sqlite issue?
<chrisccoulson> both the debian and ubuntu versions actually use sqlite it seems, so it's not that.
<chrisccoulson> the build flag we pass in debian/rules is obsolete ;)
<chrisccoulson> so i've removed that now
<chrisccoulson> the difference is between system libqdbm (debian) and trackers internal libqdbm (ubuntu)
<chrisccoulson> i'm going to run an index again later and get some debug info for the upstream bug
<seb128> the tracker copy should be working if that's what upstream use ;-)
<chrisccoulson> upstream use system libqdbm by default ;)
<chrisccoulson> we have to explicitly pass a build flag to use trackers own copy
<mvo> seb128: will you be around when robert comes online again (or to put it in other words, how good are the chances?)
<seb128> mvo: I will probably be around (80% of chances)
<seb128> I will go for dinner and sport soon but I've still some uploads I want to sponsor and bugs to clean tonight
<seb128> so I will probably be there when he starts
<seb128> why?
<mvo> seb128: just that he tests the fix for #333284 :)
<mvo> seb128: and if its good, we can upload that right away
<mvo> seb128: the compiz focus stuff
<seb128> mvo: I guess he tested it yesterday if he asked for sponsoring no?
<mvo> seb128: I modified the diff, it was a full revert of the git commit and that will be hard to maintain in the future, my diff is smaller, this is why I ask him to re-test
<mvo> (just one line)
<Nafallo> mvo: got that fix for the terminal-emulator in/ :-)
<Nafallo> s,/,?,
<mvo> Nafallo: no, I was fighting with python upgrade bugs :(
<Nafallo> mvo: good excuse! :-D
<Nafallo> mvo: can we find a way to blame seb128 ? ;-)
<mvo> Nafallo: there is always a way for this ;)
<Nafallo> seb128: so... gnome-terminal opens when I want another terminal. considering g-t is yours... ;-)
<seb128> mvo: ok
<seb128> Nafallo: no, it's robert_ancell nowadays ;-)
<pitti> vuntz: wrt "gnome-shell 0wns you all without fallback", what's your thought about this?
<Nafallo> hihi :-)
<Nafallo> seb128: you're going seb64 on us? :-O
<pitti> vuntz: I can't believe that the entire GNOME release team is so narrow-minded, so I hope I misunderstood something
<seb128> Nafallo: no, mvo was taking care of this one before ;-)
<Nafallo> seb128: your new nickname is now seb16 :-P
<seb128> good
<seb128> maybe soon I will be "seb" and be able to get sleep during nights while other fix bugs ;-)
<Nafallo> lol
<Nafallo> seb128: during busy times like that we upgrade you to seb2048 ;-)
<seb128> yeah I noticed!
 * Nafallo watches his eeepc chew on upgrades
<Nafallo> ehrm. pidgin installed :-(
<Nafallo> what the...
<pitti> seb128: while I'm at it, mind if I update gthumb to 2.10.11?
<pitti> http://ftp.acc.umu.se/pub/gnome/sources/gthumb/2.10/gthumb-2.10.11.changes
<seb128> pitti: not at all, thanks
 * pitti bzrizes it while at it
<seb128> we should perhaps move it to universe
<seb128> would be easier for contributors to update it etc this way
<pitti> *nod*
<seb128> I've to run for sport, see you tomorrow
<dobey> hmm, i need to get intltool moved over...
<sabdfl> mvo: did mpt discuss launching the update manger minimised with you?
<sabdfl> s/manger/manager/
<pitti> kenvandine_wk: reviewing indicate-python now
<pitti> kenvandine_wk: good job wrt. bzr bd and debian/watch :)
<chrisccoulson> asac - you there?
<mvo> sabdfl: yes, I'm working on the code right now (should be straightforward to add)
<kenvandine_wk> pitti: thx
<mvo> sabdfl: the compiz stacking problem is fixed in bzr now btw
<sabdfl> that's great, thanks mvo. did upstream agree, or grumble?
<mvo> sabdfl: they did not agree, it is a distro patch
<sabdfl> pity
<mvo> (but a small one)
<mvo> yeah
<pitti> kenvandine_wk: reviewed, I commented in the bug report; sorry for the delay
 * pitti waves to sabdfl, a seldom guest in this channel :)
<sabdfl> pitti: always lurking, though!
<pitti> sabdfl: as you should, as SABDFL!
<pitti> sabdfl: how's jaunty beta working for you so far ?
<sabdfl> really beautifully. delightfully!
<pitti> good to hear :)
<chrisccoulson> pitti - would you mind sponsoring a tracker update?
<chrisccoulson> should fix bug 335911
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 335911 in tracker "Tracker's Evolution mail indexation hangs Evolution" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/335911
<bittin`> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20090402
<james_w> thanks chrisccoulson
<pitti> chrisccoulson: can you please sub me? will do tomorrow morning
 * pitti -> bed, good night everyone
<pitti> chrisccoulson: many thanks for fixing this
<dobey> are there any microblog apps that support multiple accounts in a sane way? ie, i don't want to have the same tweet/dent/whatever go to all the accounts, only some
<james_w> dobey: gwibber, as long as you don't want to do it per-tweet would be a pain.
<james_w> err, gwibber, as long as you don't want to do it per-tweet
<dobey> james_w: i don't think it actually does what i want
<seb128> Ampelbein: hey, want to do an update?
<MenZa> uyu
<MenZa> o_O
<YokoZar> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-codec-install/+bug/349607
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 349607 in gnome-codec-install "Codec manager does not find "bad" codecs" [Medium,Triaged]
<YokoZar> (regression since Intrepid)
<YokoZar> Basically our prized automatic codec install feature is broken
<Ampelbein> seb128: sorry, just came back home. is the update still needed?
<seb128> Ampelbein: hi, no I did it since
<Ampelbein> ok, np.
<Ampelbein> maybe next time. we have a exhibition in town this weekend where my employer is taking part. so my free time is somewhat limited.
<seb128> yeah no problem that was just in case you were looking for one update to do
<seb128> brb
<chrisccoulson> asac - you tried the tracker update?
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-04-03
<Ampelbein> seb128: is the nautilus-updgrade to 2.26.1 taken already?
<seb128> Ampelbein: I did a svn snapshot today so we basically have it already
<seb128> same for gvfs
<Ampelbein> ok. how about gnome-nds-thumbnailer?
<seb128> don't bother doing the update, I might have a look tomorrow since I've other things I want to do on nautilus
<seb128> you can do this one
<Ampelbein> ok, will do.
<seb128> thanks
<Ampelbein> seb128: hmm. i just noticed that the current version we have is synced from debian. should i still do the upgrade and send a patch to debian against the package in 'sid'?
<seb128> yes
<Ampelbein> ok
<MenZa> pittiâ would you say UXA has improved your graphics on Jaunty?
<MenZa> oh.
<MenZa> went bed. :(
<pitti> Good morning
<robert_ancell> pitti: hey pitti
<pitti> hey robert_ancell, how are you?
<robert_ancell> pitti: good! just managed to find my way to the bottom of the gnome stack to fix 9722
<robert_ancell> bug 9722
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 9722 in gnome-desktop "Loading SVG images as background blows up bitmap instead" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/9722
<robert_ancell> good ubottu :)
<pitti> robert_ancell: wow, a four-digit ubg!
<Amaranth> whoa
<Amaranth> I didn't think 4 digits bugs even existed :P
<robert_ancell> 1 less :)
<robert_ancell> do we still deliver the gnome cd player?  Is bug 22081 still relevant?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 22081 in gnome-media "Gnome CD Player Seek bar feedback" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/22081
<seb128> good morning there
<didrocks> hello seb128
<seb128> lut didrocks
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> good morning seb128
<seb128> didrocks: how was sl?
<crevette> good morning
<seb128> lut crevette
<didrocks> seb128: great, thanks! the canonical booth was impressive and I think they're quite happy with their new contacts they got. A lot of people also at our booth and I have no more voice now ;)
<pitti> hey seb128
<seb128> didrocks: excellent ;-)
<seb128> hey pitti
<pitti> seb128: FYI, I disabled deb-src in retracer chroots again; the xulrunner hangs drive me nuts
<seb128> pitti: could you look at the g-s-t sponsoring request?
<pitti> I want those to catch up first
<pitti> seb128: can do
<seb128> pitti: it's a one line change and seems fine but I would appreciate comment from somebody knowing the api used there
<seb128> pitti: oh, it's deb-src specific?
<pitti> seb128: well, without deb-src it won't attemt to generate SourceStacktrace and thus unpack source/apply patches
<seb128> ah ok
<seb128> yeah no issue, that's a nice thing to have but not especially important
<pitti> hah!
<pitti> seb128: yeah, I did the same timeout change in jockey
<pitti> seb128: I'll have a deeper look/test/sponsor
<seb128> pitti: thanks
<pitti> but it looks good at first sight
<seb128> I tried to clean the sponsor queue a bit yesterday and the day before
<seb128> but I was not sure about this one
<pitti> chrisccoulson: can you please forward the patch in bug 349361 to upstream?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 349361 in gnome-system-tools "Users and Groups tool fails to authenticate." [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/349361
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i can do that
<chrisccoulson> sorry, i didn't get round to doing that yet
<pitti> no problem, just mentioning it
<pitti> chrisccoulson: thanks for fixing this!
<seb128> does DVD playing work for people there?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - you're welcome
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - with gstreamer?
<seb128> or xine
<seb128> bug #342890
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 342890 in libdvdread "Cannot play DVDs - Could not open location; you might not have permission to open the file" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/342890
<seb128> it's marked as a libdvdread issue
<chrisccoulson> i have to admit, i haven't tried that yet in Jaunty
<seb128> I used to have the error but that works fine on my jaunty boxes now
<seb128> I would like to get feedback from other users
<seb128> the guy in this bug did changes he doesn't understand which seem to fix the issue he's having
<seb128> ie he changed the build system used
<seb128> I'm not sure it's a good idea to upload that
<seb128> especially if DVD playing works for other users
<didrocks> seb128: I can maybe try in my ppa to build the latest evolution-mapi svn trunk. There is one positive report: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=571579#c29
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse XML returned by Gnome: not well-formed (invalid token): line 608, column 0 (http://bugzilla.gnome.org/xml.cgi?id=571579)
<seb128> didrocks: you can do a svn snapshot to universe too
<didrocks> seb128: I was thinking to propose people to test on my ppa first, before uploading to universe
<seb128> didrocks: it seems just broken in universe I would not bother and upload directly
<seb128> quicker feedback is good
<seb128> not so many people will run your ppa and exchange
<didrocks> seb128: ok, I will just first confirm the versionning scheme from svn when ready :)
<seb128> you can add the svn diff to a patch in the debian directory
<seb128> or use 2.26.0svn2009...
<didrocks> seb128: which one is the better pratice for you?
<didrocks> best*
<seb128> I've been doing both
<seb128> depends if the svn diff is trivial to apply (ie no need to autoreconf, etc)
<seb128> I did the svn diff trick for gvfs and nautilus this week
<didrocks> ok, let's see the changes from last tarball first
<didrocks> seb128: there are also some fixes in openchange that may also be related to the fix
<seb128> didrocks: 0.8.2 is on his way to debian
<didrocks> seb128: ok, so, we will wait for fake-syncing once jelmer will do it :)
<asac> bratsche: moin moin. could you please review your branches for nm-pplet an mark them merged/abandoned where appropriate? https://code.edge.launchpad.net/network-manager-applet
<asac> bratsche: goal: make that branch list meaningful ;)
<asac> gratias
<lool> /usr/share/icons/Human/scalable/actions/system-log-out.png: broken symbolic link to `../apps/gnome-logout.png'
<asac> why is a png in scalable?
<mnemo> dpkg -L human-icon-theme | grep scalable | grep png
<mnemo> return "/usr/share/icons/Human/scalable/actions/system-log-out.png"
<mnemo> so it's not just the path that is wrong, the file seems placed wrong
<Nafallo> kenvandine_wk: hiya. what was the result of the discussion about indicate-python's binary package name? :-)
<kenvandine_wk> python-indicate
<Nafallo> kenvandine_wk: I'll change gajim then. ta :-)
<kenvandine_wk> thx
<seb128> Nafallo: just curious but what makes you want to use gajim over other im we ship by default?
<Nafallo> seb128: 1) I'm the maintainer, 2) it's the best jabber client out there.
<kenvandine_wk> i don't really use gajim, but it is pretty nice
<kenvandine_wk> i don't use it because it is jabber only :)
<seb128> Nafallo: "best"? what do we need to change to pidgin or empathy to be as good?
<Nafallo> seb128: to be honest with you I've tried neither of those for a long time :-)
<seb128> ok, you are just fanboying something you are used to then ;-)
 * kenvandine_wk wonders what part of "Lock to panel" makes the panel think i am happy about it moving my applets around
<Nafallo> kenvandine_wk: that's what transports are for. :-)
<seb128> kenvandine_wk: there is no such thing as panel locking
<kenvandine_wk> it is an illusion
<kenvandine_wk> i know
<kenvandine_wk> i really hate the panel :)
<mnemo> a lot of times gnome-panel moves around my icons and stuff after updates applied and reboot.... i find this really annoying
<seb128> the bug is not specific to locking
<mnemo> i thought it was just on my machine ;o
<kenvandine_wk> mnemo: i know... it just happened to me
<kenvandine_wk> decided to move my clock way out to the middle
<seb128> weird
<seb128> usually here it just swap order or things aligned
<kenvandine_wk> well... it did
<seb128> ie I've the fusa clock worskpace applets on the right and it switch some of those sometime
<kenvandine_wk> just moved everything to the right of the clock
<kenvandine_wk> i had several things on the left of it
<seb128> that's not exactly the middle there
<kenvandine_wk> now i have to unlock everything to move it back
<seb128> right
<seb128> blame vuntz ;-)
<kenvandine_wk> everything is vuntz's fault
<mnemo> in addition to "on update+reboot"... I think it happens when the resolution switches to a low res (like when you run an SDL game in 800x600 etc)
<kenvandine_wk> or jcastro
<kenvandine_wk> just because
<seb128> mnemo: that's an another issue
<mnemo> yea I guess
<Nafallo> seb128: it's rather that it was the best when I started using it and I have never looked back :-)
<seb128> Nafallo: what was better by then?
<Nafallo> seb128: empathy didn't exist back then. and gaim had horrible jabber support.
<seb128> in which sense?
<seb128> it didn't manage to connect?
<Nafallo> sometimes yes.
<kenvandine_wk> seb128: it did use to suck at jabber
<seb128> didn't send message or you didn't receive those?
<kenvandine_wk> very unstable
<seb128> kenvandine_wk: still not constructive
<kenvandine_wk> and gaim was slow at supporting jabber
<seb128> I'm trying to figure what need to be changed
<Nafallo> crashes, unability to connect. messages not getting delivered. no support for server extensions etc etc etc.
<kenvandine_wk> not be able to connect when other clients would
<kenvandine_wk> or crash gaim
<seb128> I didn't get crash or connection or message issues in a while
<kenvandine_wk> for a while i used 2 clients to do aim and jabber
<mnemo> whee, mesa7.4 just hit apt-get... im off testing it now.. bbl
<kenvandine_wk> seb128: it has been many years
<seb128> gaim is over 2 years old
<seb128> can we have a revelant context?
<seb128> that's not constructive comments
<seb128> who cares about what used to happen 3 years ago
<seb128> what I'm interested in is what we need to change now
<kenvandine_wk> seb128: it isn't an issue now... and i use pidgin :)
<Nafallo> seb128: like I said. I haven't tried pidgin recently. why would I change something that works perfectly well for me?
<seb128> could you try?
<seb128> I'm interested to know what we could fix for most users in the default install
<seb128> not what used to suck years ago ;-)
<seb128> just run it for a week and tell us what is buggy for you nowadays?
<Nafallo> right. let's see if I can get it installed on halfling then.
<kenvandine_wk> pidgin is good now... uses more memory than i want it too... but it is pretty good
<seb128> that would be an useful experience
<seb128> empathy would be worth trying to
<seb128> we might consider it next cycle
<Nafallo> a week... I could try it for out of bands testing, but I do like my logs in one place thanks :-P
<seb128> it does video conferencing now too
<seb128> Nafallo: ok, one hour if that's enough for you to get feedback ;-)
<seb128> or create an another account for testing purpose
<Zdra> seb128: and file transfer is almost ready for jabber now
<seb128> so you get your logs in the same client and can play with it ;-)
<seb128> Zdra: good to know ;-)
<Nafallo> sounds more sensible. won't get transports tested, but more senseible :-)
<Nafallo> (and if it can't handle transports it will be a no go until it does, just saying)
<Zdra> seb128: it should work with next telepathy-gabble release. Empathy 2.26.0.1 is enough to make it work :)
<seb128> cool
<seb128> we will look at it next cycle again
<Zdra> seb128: if it's not too late for jaunty, we could upgrade package...
<seb128> we didn't want to do disruptive changes in jaunty to get a "stable" cycle
<seb128> Zdra: I don't think it's too late to get telepathy-* bug fix versions
<seb128> if they do other changes that need review
<Zdra> seb128: well, next gabble will have FT support... that's huge code to review... :p
<seb128> that's probably for karmic then ;-)
<Zdra> seb128: yep, probably we'll just push that to our ppa
<Nafallo> seb128: where do I set my priority? :-)
<seb128> what is a priority?
<Nafallo> seb128: a numerical value that tells the server to which logged in client to send the message. lowest prio wins IIRC.
<seb128> urg
<seb128> I use only one computer at time
<seb128> and starting an IM usually disconnected other connected instances
<seb128> so I get new messages there
<seb128> dunno about this thing
<Nafallo> yeah. well. I use two computers and a phone at the moment ;-)
<seb128> and you receive messages on the 3 of those?
<Nafallo> no. the one with the lowest priority. if it's the same priority on multiple, yes.
<kenvandine_wk> I use 2... but no need to set priority
<Nafallo> then it goes to all of them.
<kenvandine_wk> new IMs go to both
<kenvandine_wk> until i respond to one
<kenvandine_wk> then it only goes to the one with the active chat
<kenvandine_wk> which is perfect imho
<seb128> Nafallo: ok, you are an IM junky, I didn't think that was possible and I don't think that scale with other protocols ;-)
<Nafallo> seb128: hence why I only use jabber (with transports though, so I get the same love with other protocols)
<Nafallo> being logged in to MSN from three places rocks :-)
<seb128> if you say so
<seb128> I've only 2 hands
<kenvandine_wk> lol
<seb128> and can be looking at one machine at time
<Nafallo> OMG. you need more! ;-)
<seb128> not really no ;-)
<kenvandine_wk> pidgin seems to do the right thing there without needing to tweak things
<seb128> geeks are weird sometime ;-)
<Nafallo> seb128: it doesn't handle transports at all. it thinks my MSN transport is just another contact to talk to.
<seb128> "let's be connected on 15 computer just because we can, still we use one but the other can be eating power for nothing" ;-)
<seb128> I don't get the interest of the transport thing
<seb128> pidgin connect msn server just fine
<Nafallo> seb128: setting away on my laptop and go for a coffee brings new messages to my mobile. it makes perfect sense to do so.
 * kenvandine_wk doesn't understand the need for a transport
<Nafallo> seb128: the point is that I do not want to connect to msn from home (and a single location)
<Nafallo> it's just messy.
<kenvandine_wk> i guess i don't use msn... so don't really understand
<kenvandine_wk> aim and jabber handle it fine
<seb128> I use jabber, icq, msn
<Nafallo> one ring to rule them all etc... ;-)
<kenvandine_wk> and i use them both on 2 computers at the same time... works perfectly
<seb128> but I'm not computer junky enough to do IM on my phone while getting coffee
<kenvandine_wk> but maybe if i cared msn would not
<seb128> I just take a 5 minutes break when getting coffee
<Nafallo> hmm. can I get the XML Console in pidgin somewhere?
<seb128> dunno what that is
<seb128> forget about pidgin you are weirdo and not a normal user apparently ;-)
<Nafallo> the raw XML from what the client talks to the server about.
<Nafallo> good for debugging.
<seb128> you can probably telnet the server on the right port
<Nafallo> hehe :-P
<seb128> because that's what our users care about for sure
<Nafallo> some do, yes :-)
<seb128> being able to "get the  xml console in their client"
<Nafallo> power users... but meh :-)
<seb128> I tend to think I'm a power user ;-)
<Nafallo> can I edit the privacy lists on the server? :-)
<seb128> but I never feel the need to print xml raw datas for my im conversation in daily use ;-)
<seb128> you like to read the matrix right
<seb128> get messages in hex format, chars would be too easy to read? ;-)
<seb128> but anything thanks
<kenvandine_wk> hehe
<seb128> that was instructive
<seb128> now I know that your issue is not a normal user one
<seb128> you just need special things normal users don't need about
<seb128> which is fair but doesn't interest me really ;-)
<Nafallo> well. I'd say there is a significant use case in transports, but meh.
<seb128> ie highly protocol and technical specific things
<seb128> transport is not something user know or care about
<Nafallo> it is a different way of doing things, I agree with that :-)
<seb128> they add their msn, icq, jabber, irc, yahoo, etc account
<seb128> and connect
<seb128> and use
<seb128> they don't care about raw xml things
<seb128> I don't get the need for raw xml if you are not hacking on the soft really
<Nafallo> hmm. how about controlling the server for the admin users? :-)
<seb128> but if you like that it's your thing ;-)
<Nafallo> how do I set the MOTD in pidgin? :-)
<seb128> I don't understand what you talk about
<seb128> I've contacts in my list
<seb128> MOTD is a command line unix thing?
<seb128> admin what?
<seb128> an IM is usually a thing where you add contact and message theme
<seb128> them
<Nafallo> message of the day. an admin of the jabber server can set one that will get sent to users when they log in to the server.
<seb128> bless you
<seb128> so it autopen a weird dialog when getting online?
<seb128> no thanks
<Nafallo> irc does as well ;-)
<seb128> and that's why I don't use an IM to connect IRC
<Nafallo> ;-)
<seb128> I don't want weird dialog opening when I just get online
<kenvandine_wk> doesn't for me :)
<Nafallo> it's not weird at all :-)
<seb128> yeah
<Nafallo> kenvandine_wk: that's because the MOTD wasn't set :-)
<seb128> it's just "please give some money so we can get the service running"
<seb128> no thanks
<Nafallo> it can be whatever you set :-)
<seb128> such things should not be allowed ;-)
<seb128> yeah, I'm not interested
<seb128> not having those displayed is a feature
<Nafallo> "I hate you guys and will run an automatic DDoS if you connect again"
<seb128> and setting messages seem an admin thing to me not a client one
<Nafallo> stuff liek that :-)
<seb128> it's like saying "does thunderbird allows me to add user accounts to the server"
<seb128> no ... should it?
<Nafallo> ehrm. you lost me there I'm afraid.
<seb128> setting a MOTD on a server is a admin thing
<kenvandine_wk> Nafallo: admin of the server shouldn't be from the client
<seb128> as is adding an account
<seb128> there is no reason why clients should have that option
<seb128> it's adding noise for 99.9% of users
 * Nafallo shrugs
<kenvandine_wk> Nafallo: gajim is good for you :)
<seb128> Nafallo: but you convinced me to not recommend gajim to users ;-)
<kenvandine_wk> and it doesn't have a nice UI... but it is more complex than i care to use day to day... and not multi-protocol which is a non-starter for me
<seb128> it's apparently that sort of thing which has a many option that the whole GNOME
<kenvandine_wk> but i am glad it supports the indicator now :)
<Nafallo> seb128: sure. I recommend it to new users. it's pretty, easy to work with and gets users added benefits would they want them :-)
<Nafallo> seb128: have you tried it though? :-)
<Nafallo> kenvandine_wk: it doesn't try to be multi-protocol. it's a jabber client. plain and simple.
<seb128> Nafallo: some time ago, I didn't find it adding anything over pidgin
<kenvandine_wk> Nafallo: yeah... which isn't very useful for most people
<seb128> or anything that I'm using
<seb128> I'm not admin of any server
<kenvandine_wk> jabber is still not the most common
<seb128> doesn't set MOTD
<seb128> and doesn't print raw xml in my IM dialogs
<Nafallo> kenvandine_wk: I've introduced friends to it that quite happily added transports :-)
<kenvandine_wk> Nafallo: my 76 year old mother doesn't know what transports are :)
<seb128> Nafallo: you would have introduced them to pidgin and added non transport account there they would be as happy I expect
<Nafallo> seb128: oh. you misunderstood that one. it's not raw XML in the dialogs. it's a console to get the raw XML being sent and received from the client.
<seb128> Nafallo: sure something luser are asking for every day ;-)
<seb128> I don't think I ever felt the need for that
<seb128> seems to be a hacker debug mode to me rather than an IM feature
<Nafallo> some of those tried pidgin first and for some reason or the other didn't like it. I didn't get into details considering I hadn't used it myself :-)
<seb128> you seem to want to mix everything
<seb128> ie user, admin and debug feature in the same interface
<Nafallo> kenvandine_wk: my 50isch old mother doesn't know what IM accounts are...
<seb128> I don't think it's the way to go
<seb128> debug mode and admin should be non standard options
<seb128> they just confuse users
<kenvandine_wk> Nafallo: my mom uses aim and msn
<seb128> and people who need those are able to use a command line
<Nafallo> kenvandine_wk: kewl :-)
<kenvandine_wk> and she configured pidgin to do it by herself :)
<seb128> Nafallo: I don't think your view or what user expect from an im client is good ;-)
<kenvandine_wk> i gauge things that should be default in a distro on if she can figure it out on her own :)
<Nafallo> seb128: I don't really care what users expect. I'm quite happy using a proper jabber client that implements whatever new technologies gets specifications in jabber, and if other's want the same; I'm happy supplying that option :-)
<seb128> Nafallo: anyway thanks for the feedback, I think we have discussed it enough
<Nafallo> and no. I'm not aiming to have gajim as default :-)
<seb128> Nafallo: wel that was my point
<seb128> Nafallo: "using a proper jabber client that implements whatever new technologies gets specifications in jabber"
<seb128> Nafallo: do you know about any specification other clients don't implement
<seb128> and I'm not speaking about doing server admin through your client
<seb128> just user side
<seb128> I don't really care if you IM has a webmin mode to admin your server ;-)
<Nafallo> http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0030.html
<kenvandine_wk> morning rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> morning kenvandine_wk
<rickspencer3> how's everyone doing?
<kenvandine_wk> good
<kenvandine_wk> see my mail yet?
<pitti> rickspencer3: how was your trip?
<rickspencer3> I it was fine
<rickspencer3> thanks for asking
<rickspencer3> the flying/work ratio was a tad high
<kenvandine_wk> day trips are hard that way :/
<rickspencer3> but it was a really good sessions with jono, which was much more productive for being face to face
<kenvandine_wk> good
<rickspencer3> Also, I got some kick ass noodles for lunch
<rickspencer3> :)
<rickspencer3> got home laaate, so a bit tired today
<rickspencer3> how are you guys holding up wrt to final freeze being four working days away?
<seb128> hey rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> seb128: 'morning
<pitti> *shudder* :)
<rickspencer3> seb128: I read quite a few of them ;)
<james_w> it seems indicator-applet might be like that drunk guy in a bar, it seems to try to talk to every process that connects to dbus, but most just ignore it
<mnemo> haha =)
<kenvandine_wk> asac: is there really a translation issue with bug 338389
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 338389 in network-manager-applet "flip connected message and ssid in wireless device" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/338389
<kenvandine_wk> looking at the patch, the strings didn't change at all, just the order they are displayed
<asac> kenvandine_wk: there is no issue with that particular one
<asac> kenvandine_wk: we have a few other string changes .... you can see them in the dx patches in the packages
<kenvandine_wk> humm
<kenvandine_wk> do you know which ones?
<kenvandine_wk> that was the bug i was pointed at
<asac> kenvandine_wk: lp330571_dxteam_wired_connect_text.patch lp330608_dxteam_gsm_connect_text.patch lp341684_device_sensitive_disconnect_notify.patch
 * kenvandine_wk was just greping for _( :)
<asac> kenvandine_wk: what are you trying to do with those now?
<kenvandine_wk> checking to see if the translations are done...
<asac> babelfish?
<asac> ;)
<asac> ah
<asac> ok
<kenvandine_wk> if they aren't, we have another plan
<kenvandine_wk> but need to make the call today
<asac> good good
 * kenvandine_wk is downloading the latest delta
 * kenvandine_wk wishes there was an easier way to check
<kenvandine_wk> rosetta doesn't give us a % translated?
<asac> kenvandine_wk: i think there is a way to bump priority for certain strings in rosetta ... so translators get that offered on top if they want to do random work.
<asac> kenvandine_wk: % translated? just for all strings in distro, not for packages i think
<asac> https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+source/network-manager-applet
<kenvandine_wk> asac: for example... i can pick one of these strings and check in a particular lang
<kenvandine_wk> but
<asac> https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+source/network-manager-applet
<kenvandine_wk> what about all the languages?
<asac> this one: https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+source/network-manager-applet/+pots/nm-applet
<asac> the last is about all languages
<asac> not sure how to parse that page though
<asac> i guess its not helpful for this purpose
<kenvandine_wk> right... so how do decide these strings we changed are translated in enough languages?
<asac> let me translate german
<kenvandine_wk> yeah, it looks like they aren't translated in pt_BR
<asac> ok german is now complete
<kenvandine_wk> great
<kenvandine_wk> spanish has been done
<kenvandine_wk> i just don't know how to make the decision it is done enough :)
<bratsche> asac: Okay done!
<asac> bratsche: thanks
<kenvandine_wk> asac: do we have any guideline for making the decision?
<asac> kenvandine_wk: done enough == no missing translations
<kenvandine_wk> es is done but pt_BR isn't
<asac> kenvandine_wk: pt_BR is important
<kenvandine_wk> ok... so 100%
<kenvandine_wk> agreed
<asac> we have kind of a list of first tier languages
<kenvandine_wk> i always check 1st
<asac> pitti: where was the list we use to decide which translations get on the CD again?
<asac> iirc, there was a priority list ... which probably is a good base to decide which languages are top prio
<mnemo> i've stopped getting notifications about new updates... is that because update-manager waits a long time before telling me about non-security updates?
<asac> mnemo: yes.
<asac> once a week i think
<pitti> asac: priority_langs in http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Eubuntu-langpack/langpack-o-matic/main/annotate/head%3A/langpacksize
<asac> kenvandine_wk: ^^
<kenvandine_wk> pitti: thx
<asac> kenvandine_wk: so pt and zh need two languages for sure
<mnemo> asac: for the stable release, this is great but won't you want to to check more often during pre-release dev builds (i.e. for jaunty)... i mean you want feedback on new uploads asap?
<kenvandine_wk> yeah
 * kenvandine_wk loops through them to see how we look
<asac> mnemo: not sure. i dont have a problem with the current behaviour ... but then, i run apt-get dist-upgrade ;)
<asac> mnemo: personally i think that the behaviour should reflect the future stable behaviour
<asac> as testing that is what the development release is about more or less
<rickspencer3> bug 339555
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 339555 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "compiz slowmotion after Jaunty upgrade" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/339555
<zslashz> it detects cd normally, but cant do same for dvd
<asac> argh. phantom panel again ;)
<zslashz> and i dont mean a dvd movie or so..just an empty dvd
<zslashz> any ideas people
<zslashz> ?
<asac> i stopped using CDs/DVDs long ago ;)
<asac> not really sure how gnome probes whether a CD/DVD is empty
<zslashz> hmmm/...:(
<asac> germany sucks so much
<asac> "This video is not available in your country. "
<asac> e.g. all music videos banned on youtube.com
<pitti> bryce: in today's release team meeting, bug 339555 and bug 337608 were pointed out to be important; could you please look at them next week, or delegate to someone else?
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/339555/+text)
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/337608/+text)
<kenvandine_wk> ArneGoetje: ping
<ArneGoetje> kenvandine_wk: pong
<kenvandine_wk> ArneGoetje: we have some string changes from the dxteam in nm-applet
<kenvandine_wk> what is the best way to check the translation status?
 * kenvandine_wk downloaded them and ran grep :)
<ArneGoetje> kenvandine_wk: you mean overall translation status? like this: https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+source/network-manager-applet/+pots/nm-applet ?
<kenvandine_wk> no, for specific strings
<kenvandine_wk> i have a handful of strings we changed
<ArneGoetje> kenvandine_wk: I think we don't have any mechanism for seeing all languages on string level.
<kenvandine_wk> ok
<kenvandine_wk> thx
<ArneGoetje> np
<pitti> mvo: could you please have a quick look at bug 352307, to confirm that I understood update-notifier update notes correctly?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 352307 in ecryptfs-utils "update-notifier message about recording mount passphrase" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/352307
<pitti> mvo: (in the sense that they aren't really what I want for this case)
<pitti> bye everyone, I'm off to SF!
<YokoZar> So there's a regression in gnome-codec-install that probably needs some attention (it doesn't find the bad codecs)
<mvo> YokoZar: oh, do you have a example?
<YokoZar> mvo: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-codec-install/+bug/349607
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 349607 in gnome-codec-install "Codec manager does not find "bad" codecs" [Medium,Triaged]
 * mvo looks
<YokoZar> I know xvid does it
<YokoZar> User has xvid-encoded foo.avi and codec install can't find it
<mvo> YokoZar: ok, I will go and see if I can find a xvid file on the net
<YokoZar> mvo: there's an obvious joke about video files on the internet here...
<mnemo> some nice xvid files here --> http://ftp.heanet.ie/mirrors/fosdem-video/2009/maintracks/
<mvo> YokoZar: heh :) its harder than it looks, so much spam/fishing sites if you type video
<mvo> mnemo: thanks, that looks good
<mvo> hm, so -ffmpeg and -ugly seems to be fine for the fodem-videos - looks like I need to find anohter example that actually uses "bad"
<mnemo> mvo: www.ted.com often offers zipped .mp4 videos and channel9.msnd.com has .wmv
<mnemo> not sure if those are -bad though
<mnemo> http://channel9.msdn.com/
<dobey> ironsky.net has a few videos, though i don't know what codec they are in. and all the HD stuff on youtube is h264 mp4 i think
<mvo> mnemo: thanks, the zipped mp4 uses bad and works
<mvo> dobey: thanks, checking that out now
<dobey> iron sky looks hilarious, but probably won't make it to germany
<mvo> meh, what is channel9 the official propaganda channel?
<mnemo> yes
<mnemo> well it's the developer targetted propaganda they also have other similar sites for BDMs etc
<mvo> dobey: I hit ironsky.com first, that looks "interessting"
<dobey> heh
<mvo> hm, looks all good too
<dobey> i wish there were more HD videos to download
<mvo> I'm not sure how well this film would work in germany ;)
<dobey> yeah
<dobey> i think german law would sort of prevent it from being shown :P
<mvo> that too :)
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-04-04
<mnemo> guys, it seems that the server https://wiki.ubuntu.com/  is hosed???
<mnemo> I get a reply from yangmei.canonical.com but all it says is that "Unable to forward this request at this time"
<salty-horse> I noticed that the default window icon (white rectangle with blue strip on top) appears differently in the window decoration (and alt-tab switcher) as black glossy paper. is this a known problem?
<mnemo> i think black glossy paper means like "missing icon file" or something
<mnemo> how do you repro this bug?
<mnemo> how can I create such a window?
<salty-horse> mnemo, open an app with no icon set.. like "gitk" or anything from sgt-puzzles
<salty-horse> or glxgears
<salty-horse> or xev
<salty-horse> need more? :)
<mnemo> I see the normal white with blue top icon for all of those
<mnemo> so maybe its a config issue on your machine
<mnemo> try with the live CD to be sure
<salty-horse> jaunty?
<mnemo> yea with latest updates
<salty-horse> I've copied my configuration from a intrepid install to a fresh jaunty one. that might have been the cause :)
<mnemo> ah yea maybe
 * Laney just discovered a restart notification by accident while alt-tabbing
<Laney> grrrrrr
<hyperair> Laney: lol
<hyperair> Laney: don't you just hate the new behaviour? =p
<Laney> muchly
<tjaalton> sigh.. is there a way to use the old method of mounting cameras and not the gphoto gvfs stuff?
 * maxb wonders whether to include something in his company's customization package to fiddle the auto_launch gconf setting :-/
<tjaalton> maxb: so you know the answer?
<maxb> tjaalton: sorry, no - that was in response to the conversation before your question
<tjaalton> maxb: ah, ok :)
<hggdh> k
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-04-05
<soc> *sigh* and i thought this bug has gone already .... https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/+bug/157398 does someone know why this bug appears again, more broken than before?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 157398 in gnome-control-center "GNOME default DPI doesn't match X default DPI" [Unknown,Fix released]
<joop> how do I find out what version of ubuntu I currently have installed?
<hggdh> joop, you can look at /etc/lsb-release
<joop> thx
<ubuntunewkid> hello all! i am currently running ubuntu 9.04 beta on my desktop...
<ubuntunewkid> actually on virtual pc 2007
<ubuntunewkid> why doesn't anybody talk? or should i just move to #ubuntu instead?
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-04-05
<baptistemm> hello
<cnd> I have a pending merge request against gnome-settings-daemon that I'd like someone to review to fix bug 484186: https://code.launchpad.net/~chasedouglas/ubuntu/lucid/gnome-settings-daemon/CRTC-fix/+merge/22699
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 484186 in gnome-settings-daemon "Cannot switch Monitor configuration CRTC 58" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/484186
<cnd> thanks in advance!
<rickspencer3> cnd, hi, it's a holiday in most of Europe, so things will go a bit slow today
<cnd> rickspencer3: yeah, we in the US don't get that luxury :)
<rickspencer3> yup
<rickspencer3> because we live in a savage and brutal society
<rickspencer3> :)
<Nafai> good morning
<kenvandine> good morning Nafai
<Nafai> How are you kenvandine?
<kenvandine> good
<kenvandine> and you?
<Nafai> pretty good
<rickspencer3> Hi Nafai
<Nafai> Hey rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> Nafa
<rickspencer3> oops
<rickspencer3> stupid focus stealing chromium pop-ups
<rickspencer3> Nafai, what's on your list for today?
<Nafai> That's what I was about to ask you :)  I couldn't reproduce the VMWare player/gdm input thing, though there was one other who has posted and said he has seen it with a Karmic host.  Don't really have much else on my plate at the moment
<rickspencer3> dang it!
<rickspencer3> I mean "dang it you couldn't repro that bug"
<Nafai> yeah
<Nafai> I made a comment on the bug indicating my configuration
<rickspencer3> Nafai, in that case, could you please triage any new UNE bugs
<rickspencer3> do you have UNE set up right now?
<Nafai> I installed the meta package
<rickspencer3> ok
<Nafai> Is there a tag or something I should subscribe to in launchpad to find these bugs?
<rickspencer3> Nafai, have you talked to didrocks about triaging UNE?
<rickspencer3> Nafai, look in the packages
<Nafai> briefly
<rickspencer3> for example netbook-launcher
<Nafai> ok
<rickspencer3> oh fudge
<rickspencer3> looks like the latest quickly-widgets broke bughugger rather badly :(
<Nafai> :(
<rickspencer3> Nafai, after you are done with triaging UNE ...
<rickspencer3> could you please take a look at the facilities for geo-location programming?
<rickspencer3> there was a blueprint for it in Lucid, but we canceled it because upstreams weren't in good shape
<rickspencer3> it would be useful to take another look
<rickspencer3> and perhaps resurect the blueprint for Maverick
<Nafai> sure thing
<milanbv> chrisccoulson: is there any plan to package system-tools-backends 2.10.0? I've seen that Robert Ancell took care of liboobs and the gst
<chrisccoulson> milanbv, i'm not too sure. i'm not really looking at any of those things at the moment, as i've already got a lot to do
<milanbv> as always ;-)
<chrisccoulson> heh
<chrisccoulson> and we're frozen for beta 2 right now too
<chrisccoulson> milanbv, what has changed in 2.10.0?
<milanbv> do you think I should ping Robert?
<milanbv> hmm, a few crashers
<chrisccoulson> ah, that should be ok then
<chrisccoulson> there is only a 1 week window after beta 2 before we are in final freeze
<milanbv> yeah, two common crashers, fix changing UIDs and GIDs, plus big performance improvements
<milanbv> definitely worth it - anyway, I'm often releasing with Ubuntu in mind
<xiven> Anyone in here for Telepathy? I am trying to find the proper source files to implement the Room List functionality, specifically for the Yahoo protocol.
<xiven> Where do I find the SOURCE for telepathy...all I can find it header files
<edsiper> xiven, http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/wiki/
<xiven> I wonder how productive software would be if the older C sources were converted into the latest C++ sources..
 * kklimonda|G1 doesn't understand
 * chrisccoulson doesn't either ;)
<coffeedude> *: Thanks in advance if anyone can point me in the right direction.  First, how do I tickle the "restart required" state of the Logout/Restart menu in Lucid?  And secondly, I seem to be getting two copies of the shortcut in the System ->Administration menu when I install my packages.  Any idea how to track down why?
<soren> coffeedude: /var/run/reboot-required for the first question.
<coffeedude> Thanks soren.  Has that changed from karmic?  O)r maybe I just accidentially dropped the patch in the latest likewise-open packages....
<soren> coffeedude: (/usr/share/update-notifier/notify-reboot-required for usage example)
<soren> coffeedude: No clue, sorry. It's the sort of thing I look up each time I need it.
<coffeedude> soren, fair enough.
<TomJaeger> Hi.  Apparently there was a deliberate decision to not show the battery percentage in g-p-m anymore (bug #539912).  I don't know who made this decision, but I strongly urge you to reconsider.  The remaining time estimate is pretty much useless to me since it depends on too many factors.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 539912 in gnome-power-manager "[lucid] current battery charge not easily accessable" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/539912
<chrisccoulson> TomJaeger, that decision is unlikely to be changed now at this stage of the cycle (we're just over 1 week from final freeze)
<TomJaeger> chrisccoulson, That's a shame.  This is probably the single most annoying issue that I have with lucid right now.
<chrisccoulson> TomJaeger, i don't like it either, but the menu was far too wide with the percentage in there, which is why it was removed
<chrisccoulson> the estimated time remaining on my laptop is woefully inaccurate, and i can't use it to work out how long i've got left
<chrisccoulson> for example, it said 3 hours 40 minutes until charged some 30 seconds ago
<chrisccoulson> and now it is 4 hours until charged ;)
<TomJaeger> This is still somewhat puzzling to me.  There would have been easier ways of shortening the menu entry.
<chrisccoulson> like?
<chrisccoulson> it was already shortened quite a bit
<TomJaeger> 3:40 instead of "3 hours 40 minutes"
<TomJaeger> "battery" instead of "laptop battery"
<chrisccoulson> TomJaeger, g-p-m also handles other types of batteries
<chrisccoulson> which is why it is "Laptop battery"
<chrisccoulson> and abbreviations suck. "battery 3.40 until charged" means nothing
<TomJaeger> re laptop battery, gpm_device_type_to_localised_text seems to suggest otherwise
<TomJaeger> In fact, the internal code for a "laptop battery" is DKP_DEVICE_TYPE_BATTERY
<chrisccoulson> well, i can assure you that it does
<chrisccoulson> it also monitors wireless mouse batteries
<chrisccoulson> and UPS devices
<TomJaeger> It's debatable whether anyone would really assume that "battery" refers to their wireless mouse' battery.
<TomJaeger> which is called "wireless mouse", not "wireless mouse battery", incidentally.
<TomJaeger> back to "3 hours 40 minutes", "3 hrs 40 min" is another abbreviation that is commonly used.
<chrisccoulson> TomJaeger, remember that "hrs" has to be translated in lots of languages
<TomJaeger> chrisccoulson, I'm sure most languages have concise way of expressing a time span.  But you're right, it's probably too late to get this translated for lucid.
<TomJaeger> How about breaking the information into two lines, i.e. "Laptop battery is discharging\n3 hours 40 minutes left (60%)"
<zyga-nc10> do we have an ambience/radiance gvim colorscheme?
<fagan> zyga-nc10: I dont think so but im sure you could make one
<zyga-nc10> fagan: is it tool late to include it by default?
<fagan> zyga-nc10: hmm im sure it could get a freeze exception because it wouldnt case problems
<fagan> but maybe not
<zyga-nc10> fagan: well there is this page: http://vimcolorschemetest.googlecode.com/svn/html/index-c.html
<zyga-nc10> I'm pretty sure we could find one that looks almost good and tweak it
<rickspencer3> RAOF, good morning
<TheMuso> Good morning.
<RAOF> Good morning.
<TheMuso> RAOF: Hey! How was your long weekend?
<RAOF> Nice and relaxing.
<RAOF> Yours?
<rickspencer3> good morning TheMuso
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-04-06
<TheMuso> RAOF: Nice as well.
<TheMuso> rickspencer3: hey there.
<rickspencer3> hey TheMuso
<fagan> RAOF: nice job with F-spot
<rickspencer3> I'm about to step out, but will be online a bit later I think
<RAOF> We managed to make it down to Clifton Gardens on Sunday and walk around neatly in between downpours. :)
 * fagan used it over the weekend and loved it
<TheMuso> heh nice
<RAOF> fagan: Excellent!
<fagan> the viewer mode is really handy
<TheMuso> As much as many people might disagree with me, I was hoping that it would rain more.
<fagan> TheMuso: come to ireland then
<fagan> :)
<fagan> We rain a lot
<TheMuso> heh
<Sarvatt> is 05_locking_for_compiz.patch supposed to still be in our gnome-screensaver patch series? it was fixed years ago apparently, i think it might have just been brought along accidentally because its relevant on hardy
<Sarvatt> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=488264 -- thats the bug for it
<ubottu> Gnome bug 488264 in general "keybord grab problem under compiz" [Normal,Resolved: notgnome]
<nigelb> TheMuso, morning :)
<TheMuso> Hey nigelb.
<nigelb> TheMuso, I tried the patch in bug 534190, but it didn't really work for me :( thoughts?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 534190 in speech-dispatcher "module (config.py) in python-speechd breaks python's help system" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/534190
<TheMuso> nigelb: right, I will look at that bug a bit later. I am busy going through mail from the weekend.
<nigelb> sure :)
<nigelb> since you're on there.  I just wanted to let you know :)
<TheMuso> yep ok
<Amaranth> Sarvatt: That was fixed in xorg ages ago
<rickspencer3> TheMuso, hey
<rickspencer3> what's up with bug #477226 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 477226 in linux "Sound simultaneously on headphones and speakers - Lenovo IdeaPad u350" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/477226
<TheMuso> rickspencer3: the built in microphoen is still not working for people .I need to go back into the code and see whats up. Haven't got to it yet, and it slipped off my radar. WIll take a look at trying to solve it.
<rickspencer3> TheMuso, np
<rickspencer3> is it still High importance do you think?
<TheMuso> rickspencer3: Possibly, because the internal microphone is still likely to be used by people.
<rickspencer3> ok
<rickspencer3> thanks TheMuso
<rickspencer3> ttyt
<TheMuso> np
<crimsun> TheMuso: 0x1a needs to be VREF'd appropriately depending on the presence of 0x1b; you could probably do that in cxt5066_ideapad_automic() based on a switch/case if you don't feel like adding a separate function for the u350
<crimsun> I'm doing something similar for the new Sony VAIOs in the Realtek case
<crimsun> anyhoo, ->work
<TheMuso> crimsun: ah ok thanks.
<TheMuso> crimsun: hrm how would I identify the U350 from the U150 the patch was written for initially? or would the 150 also need the same change?
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> Good morning
<TheMuso> Morning pitti.
<Damascene> what ever,
<Damascene> I've been trying to send to the mail list for the past four days no luck
<Damascene> I got a message some cerimanl killing it with score 3.7
<Damascene> !help
<ubottu> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
<Damascene> !op
<ubottu> Help! Channel emergency! (ONLY use this trigger in emergencies) -  elky, Madpilot, tritium, Nalioth, tonyyarusso, PriceChild, Amaranth, jrib, Myrtti, mneptok, Pici, jpds, gnomefreak, bazhang, jussi01, Flannel or ikonia!
<Damascene> I've been trying to send to the mail list for the past four days no luck
<Damascene> I got a message some cerimanl killing it with score 3.7
<didrocks> good morning
<RAOF> didrocks: Aloha!
<didrocks> hey RAOF, how are you?
<RAOF> Pretty good.
<RAOF> Although it's getting dark here now.  Daylight savings has ended.  I'm slipping out of the future!
<pitti> bonjour didrocks, hey RAOF
<didrocks> guten morgen pitti
<pitti> found some nice easter eggs? :-)
<RAOF> Not so much.  Just a couple.  And they got eaten perhaps a couple of days early :)
<didrocks> pitti: not really, help my browser moving all those 3 days. Travelled more than 22 hours by train and truck. And, as he was at the 5th floor, I can hardly walk: my legs are totally broken :(
<didrocks> pitti: and you? found some? ;)
<pitti> your _browser_?
<didrocks> brother :)
<pitti> didrocks: urgh, that sounds stressful
<pitti> didrocks: was nice for me, lots of hiking, family, bowling, and eating :)
<didrocks> not stressful, tiring rather ;)
<didrocks> good
<didrocks> not to much chocolate over the week-end?
<didrocks> pitti: desrt needed zeromq sync from debian to have some easier work on dconf from lucid. It's a new package which could be synced from lucid. What do you think about it? (bug #553858)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 553858 in ubuntu "[FFe] please pull zeromq from debian" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/553858
<pitti> didrocks: can you please reopen it with that rationale?
<didrocks> pitti: sure, done  :)
<Damascene> I've been trying to send to the mail list for the past four days no luck
<Damascene> I got a message some cerimanl killing it with score 3.7
<pitti> Damascene: please, first this isn't a place to discuss email problems, and second you didn't even say which mailing list you were sending to
<Damascene> pitti, ubuntu-desktop
<Sarvatt> darn, managed to get a fix for the clutter apps segfaulting xserver when they are closed that doesn't involve completely dropping the glx 1.4 backports but it's breaking quadrapassel (which was already pretty broken). it's up here if anyone wants to give it a shot - https://edge.launchpad.net/~sarvatt/+archive/bugfixes/+sourcepub/1036476/+listing-archive-extra
<chrisccoulson> hello everyone
<seb128> hey chris
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson
<didrocks> hey chrisccoulson, salut seb128
<chrisccoulson> hey seb128, how are you? did you have a good weekend?
<chrisccoulson> hey didrocks
<seb128> lut didrocks
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm good thank you, had an excellent weekend
<seb128> I'm fighting the 800+ bug emails in my inbox for 2 hours now
<chrisccoulson> heh, i've not looked in my inbox just yet
<didrocks> same here (just 500, but it's enough already :)) :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, didrocks: did you guys have a good weekend too?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, it was quite relaxing. we had some family round on sunday, but i didn't do very much really
<chrisccoulson> i did change the tracker packaging quite a bit yesterday afternoon though
<didrocks> seb128: well, tiring one. Help me brother moving. More than 22 hours in train/truck during the 3 days and he was on the 5th floor. Consequently, no more leg, can hardly walk :)
<didrocks> s/me/my
<seb128> didrocks, so happy to be back to the computer? ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: oh, more than happy indeed :-)
<chrisccoulson> didrocks - no elevator to the 5th floor?
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: no :(
<didrocks> 3500 kgs of stuff for 4 people is quite a lot at the end of the week-end :-)
 * didrocks looks forward to next week-end to do *nothing* TBH
<pitti> hey seb128, good morning chrisccoulson
<seb128> hey pitti
<seb128> had a good week end too?
<pitti> seb128: yes, very relaxing; we went for a nice hike, some bowling, and meeting some friends
<pitti> and my cold is much better
<milanbv> pitti: why does Apport refuse to report crashes from abort()?
<chrisccoulson> kklimonda|G1, i'm going to upload an updated gnome-screensaver package to my PPA shortly. i would appreciate you testing it when you get the chance to see if it solves bug 555870 for you
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 555870 in gnome-screensaver "Gamma values are not being set properly after a second fade out resulting in a black screen" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/555870
<milanbv> sometimes some daemon is crashing, and it says it doesn't want to file the bug, which is a little disappoiting ;-)
<pitti> milanbv: usually they come from assertion violations
<pitti> milanbv: for standard C assert macro and glib's g_assert_* stuff it is able to capture the actual assertion message, and sends a report
<kklimonda|G1> chrisccoulson: will do it tonight, thanks for looking at it.
<pitti> milanbv: but for programs which implement assertions for themselves, we can't grab the assertion message, thus the crash report would be useless
<kklimonda|G1> pitti: for PP upload rights do i need endorsements from people who has worked on this package with me or from any developers who has worked with me?
<milanbv> pitti: here I have forced reporting a desktopcouch-service abortion, and the stacktrace contains:
<milanbv> assertion failed: ((int) res != INCOMPLETE)")
<milanbv> which I think can be enough, isn't it?
<milanbv> at least, if people report this, it's better than opening an empty report...
<seb128> ok, down to 17 unread bug emails
<chrisccoulson> pitti - would you be able to spare some time this week to remove some mozilla extensions from the archive for me? :)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: yes, that's on my list; in fact, I was going to do it right now :)
<chrisccoulson> pitti - excellent, thanks :)
<chrisccoulson> so, the removal list is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/Lucid/FirefoxNewSupportModel/extension-list
<chrisccoulson> the extensions that need removing have "Remove" in the action column
<mvo> chrisccoulson: this stuff needs to go from app-install-data as well then, could you mail me the names of the removal or ask someone in the mozilla team to update the app-install-data branch?
<chrisccoulson> mvo - that someone in the mozillateam will probably be me ;)
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i will do that too, thanks for pointing that out (i would have overlooked that otherwise)
<mvo> chrisccoulson: cool, thanks
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I wondered why you kept livehttpheaders ?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: or mozilla-noscript?
<Damascene> any one can contact the owner of the mail list?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - i think asac requested mozilla-noscript
<chrisccoulson> pitti - and livehttpheaders falls in to the "popular with users according to popcon" category, but i'm quite indifferent about that one tbh
<chrisccoulson> i'm ok with removing that
<kklimonda|G1> chrisccoulson: are yo rtemoving those extensions only for lifeless TheMuso s?
<kklimonda|G1> o.o
<chrisccoulson> kklimonda|G1, i'm not sure i understand the question
<kklimonda|G1> chrisccoulson: are you removing those extensions only for LTS?
<chrisccoulson> kklimonda|G1, we're removing them permanently, starting with the LTS
<kklimonda|G1> damn - i really like the ability to install all my extensions using apt-get
<chrisccoulson> kklimonda|G1, it's quite easy to install them from a.m.o though (and we're only removing ones that are easy to install)
<james_w> kenvandine: hey, did you see https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~sune-keller/empathy/fix-533857/+merge/22762 ? (Not urgent, just not sure if LP will have mailed you)
<chrisccoulson> kklimonda|G1, the issue with the extensions is that they are going to become a maintenance burden in the future when we start tracking major firefox versions in stable releases
<pitti> chrisccoulson: ok, removed, blacklisted, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/Lucid/FirefoxNewSupportModel/extension-list updated
<chrisccoulson> so we want to keep the number to an absolute minimum
<pitti> much more green now :)
<chrisccoulson> pitti - excellent, thanks :)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: please feel free to reiterate and remove more :)
<chrisccoulson> pitti - no worries. i'm sure the list will be under constant review, as debian package more extensions
<pitti> chrisccoulson: (e. g. our enigmail is currently totally broken, and stumbleupon/livehttpheaders/etc. might go as well)
<pitti> and webdeveloper
<pitti> the addons management in firefox is quite good, after all
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, i was planning to update stumbleupon. i don't want to remove that, as that's quite a popular and well maintained extensions
<chrisccoulson> and the webdeveloper addon is broken due to a debian change
<chrisccoulson> they change the maximum version number to 3.5.x :-/
<james_w> kenvandine: ah, just seen you assigned the bug to yourself yesterday, sorry for the noise
<dpm> hi mvo, when you've got some time, do you think you could look at bug 430926? It's about making the friendly-recovery package using the translations, and kelemengabor submitted a branch for the fix already
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 430926 in friendly-recovery "friendly recovery does not use and has probably never used provided translations" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/430926
<mvo> dpm: thanks, looking
<Keybuk> gnargh!
<Keybuk> I'm so filing a bug
<Keybuk> someone moved the buttons around on the windows
<Keybuk> I keep maximising instead of closing!
<didrocks> Keybuk: you mean, the close button on the extreme right?
<Keybuk> extreme left
<didrocks> Keybuk: yeah, extreme left, sorry. Yeah, that's either in the bug report or in mark's blog post. That's an sabdfl's decision in any case.
<dpm> thanks mvo!
<didrocks> dpm: hey, I've repushed a new version in my quickly translation import branch. Can you ping the LP guys to know why autoimport doesn't work?
<dpm> didrocks, done pinging, let me come back to you when they give us an answer
<didrocks> dpm: awesome, thanks!
<kenvandine> james_w, no worries, i hadn't gotten an email but did get an irc ping
<Sarvatt> \o/ clutter app close xserver segfaults fully fixed here on 4 machines, the quadrapassel artifacts I was seeing were just with xorg-edgers packages
<james_w> kenvandine: cool
<seb128> Sarvatt, waouh!
<seb128> njpatel, ^
<dpm> didrocks, the template seems to have been imported now. Not sure what happened but the repush might have done the trick -> https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/quickly/0.x/+imports
<didrocks> dpm: sweet! Let's hope than autoexport will work the same. I'll keep you in touch!
<didrocks> hey james_w
<dpm> didrocks, :)
<james_w> salut didrocks
<Sarvatt> btw are you guys targetting UNE to intel netbooks? you may want to consider exporting CLUTTER_VBLANK=none globally because apparently its using glXGetVideoSyncSGI which is insanely slow on intel and GLX_SGI_swap_control isn't being advertised for some reason.. it makes my system on the order of 10x slower having mutter or netbook-launcher open with wait_video_sync blanking
<zyga> re, empathy is crashy lately :-(
<Sarvatt> trying to look into getting GLX_SGI_swap_control advertised again
<didrocks> njpatel: you have more knowledge than I on thatâ¦ ^
<zyga> mvo: do you have any hints on how to reproduce #540790
<zyga> mvo: mmm, maybe I could remove all the keys...
<zyga> mvo: but that wouldn't make it possible to test the actual fix (inconsistent repo -> update -> consistent repo)
<mvo> zyga: rm /var/lib/apt/lists/*.gpg
<mvo> zyga: that will make all packages unauthenticated
<zyga> mvo: thanks, I'll check it out
<dpm> didrocks, I also noticed that on http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~quickly/quickly/trunk/files/head%3A/data/templates/ubuntu-pygame/help/po/ the tutorial might not be imported because it lacks the .pot extension. (or at least that's why I believe it hasn't been imported)
<didrocks> dpm: oh right, I have to bzr add after releasing (as the .pot is generated from the xml built at build-time). Thanks! :)
<baptistemm> hello
<didrocks> salut baptistemm
<zyga> mvo: AptdaemonBackend.reload() would be enough to do 'apt-get update' in background/
<mvo> zyga: yes, that should work
<Sarvatt> no chance of getting GLX_SGI_swap_control exposed with our xserver-xorg-video-intel and xserver versions in lucid, darn
<njpatel> Sarvatt, sorry, didn't see didrocks ping
<njpatel> Sarvatt, didrocks: running CLUTTER_VBLANK=none with netbook launcher shouldn't cause any issues
<njpatel> However having it global will effect Mutter-based stuff (well, shell :) when viewing videos etc, though I don't know how bad it'll be
<didrocks> njpatel: I saw you told that with < karmic. Is it still true with karmic and lucid version? Shall we use that in the session file?
<njpatel> didrocks, having it local to netbook-launcher would be the way to go, yeah
<didrocks> njpatel: ok, so only for netbook-launcher would make sense
<didrocks> njpatel: will do that if you think it won't hurt too badly the netbook-launcher visual effects
<didrocks> (as it deactivates some, right?)
<njpatel> didrocks, it won't, I don't think we do anything intense enough for it to cause any artefacts
<didrocks> njpatel: sweet! will do so :)
<rickspencer3> good morning all
<seb128> hey rickspencer3
<seb128> how are you?
<rickspencer3> okay
<rickspencer3> je suis fatigue
<seb128> oh ?
<Damascene> I've been trying to send to the mail list for the past four days no luck
<Damascene> I got a message some cerimanl killing it with score 3.7
<seb128> rickspencer3, ah oui, les Ã©tats-unis avait pas de weekend ralongÃ©
<rickspencer3> mmmm
<rickspencer3> non
<rickspencer3> les etats-unis avait pas de weekend normal
<seb128> "avait un weekend"?
<seb128> ie you had a normal 2 days weekend?
<rickspencer3> oui
 * seb128 hugs you
<rickspencer3> j'ai travaille juni
 * seb128 hugs rickspencer3
<seb128> rather
<seb128> "lundi"
<rickspencer3> nice break seb128?
<seb128> was great to have a long weekend
<seb128> yes!
<rickspencer3> good
<seb128> I needed it after the previous crazy weeks
<seb128> I'm pretty good today ;-)
<rickspencer3> good to hear
<seb128> I almost finish dealing with the weekend backlog and tuesday paperwork
<rickspencer3> I have no crazy things to add to your liest
<rickspencer3> list, even
<seb128> good ;-)
<pitti> hey rickspencer3, how are you?
<rickspencer3> hi pitti
<rickspencer3> I am quite well
<rickspencer3> how are you?
<rickspencer3> was the break good?
<pitti> rickspencer3: I'm great; cold is much better, and 4 days break was very relaxing; we went hiking with the family, some bowling, meeting some old friends, etc.
<rickspencer3> and some bug triaging, pitti? ;)
<pitti> rickspencer3: just a little :)
<rickspencer3> well, whatever relaxes you, I suppose ;)
<pitti> I caught up on some Debian stuff, and wanted to cut a first dent into my mailbox yesterday
<rickspencer3> oh, that's great
<rickspencer3> ccheney, good morning
<rickspencer3> ccheney, I see you have bug #450569 with some open bug tasks
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 450569 in docvert "package openoffice.org-emailmerge 1:3.0.1-9ubuntu3.1 failed to install/upgrade: " [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/450569
<rickspencer3> are you planning more work there?
<ccheney> rickspencer3: its only open under docvert and doesn't really need to be fixed afaik
<ccheney> rickspencer3: the part assigned to me was already fixed for lucid anyway
<rickspencer3> ccheney, well, are the other tasks going to get fixed?
<rickspencer3> if not, can we "won't fix" them?
<rickspencer3> basically, I'm tired of this bug showing up in our Release Critical bug list :)
<ccheney> rickspencer3: people keep playing with the status of them
<ccheney> rickspencer3: i'm trying to look to see if it was considered fixed before, looking through the lists of status changes
<ccheney> rickspencer3: the only open tasks aren't listed as release critical
<ccheney> but mitch fixed the part of the status for OOo that someone was messing with
<ccheney> the only way we can fix this long term is if someone on the launchpad team makes it so that random lp users can't change the status of bugs after they are marked fixed
<mvo> ccheney: speaking of OOo, could you please check #556348 ? it contains a fix as well
<ccheney> i often get people going by and changing status of bugs (not usually for RC bugs) without even commenting on them
<ccheney> mvo: looking
<ccheney> mvo: ok will add that back, i think it must have gotten dropped during a merge and/or when looking at the deps for the other pre-dep rc bug, not really sure
<mvo> ccheney: ok, thanks for adding it back
<Nafai> Good morning
<didrocks> hey Nafai
<Nafai> Hey didrocks
<seb128> hey Nafai
<chrisccoulson> hey Nafai
<Nafai> Hi everyone :)
<rickspencer3> hi Nafai
<pitti> kenvandine, rickspencer3: any troubles in the release team meeting? and thanks for covering
<kenvandine> pitti, nope
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, how's the giwbber refactoring going?
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, pretty frustrating, let me comment more at the meeting
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, ack
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, would another person working on it help you?
<kenvandine> doubt it...
<kenvandine> unless it was someone with a magical answer :)
 * Nafai gets out his crystal ball
<seb128_> pitti, how did you fix the vino color issue?
<pitti> seb128_: removed the "gtk-tooltip" style from that status bar
<pitti> now it uses the same colors as the rest of the fialog
<pitti> dialog
<seb128_> pitti, hum, k, I was not sure if it was there for a reason and reluctant to drop it
<pitti> which is much less prone to damage from themes, at least
<seb128_> let's see how it goes
<pitti> well, it should really be a GtkStatusBar, but that'd be new code
<seb128_> right
<seb128_> did you forget to push your change btw?
<pitti> seb128_: I didn't push it at all -- no Vcs-Bzr:
<pitti> is there a branch for it?
<seb128_> standard lp:~ubuntu-desktop/vino/ubuntu
<pitti> Vcs-Svn: svn://svn.debian.org/svn/pkg-gnome/desktop/unstable/vino
<pitti> hmm
<pitti> seb128_: ok, I'll reject the upload, and reupload with fixed vcs-*
<seb128_> pitti, thanks
<pitti> seb128_: done
<seb128_> pitti, thanks
<seb128_> hum
<ccheney> wow my annoying desktop loses several minutes a week it seems
 * ccheney runs ntp hoping it works better
<ccheney> too bad ntpdate doesn't run except on startup, i never reboot
<seb128_> james_w, I'm not sure I like bzr reviews on launchpad :p
<james_w> seb128_: why's that?
<seb128_> james_w, I just noticed that you were discussing this g-s-d change there but the bug side gets no update about that
<seb128_> those comments are interesting and should be in the bug
<james_w> yeah, it's frustrating the other way too
<seb128_> I'm wondering if also I should be getting emails about this review
<seb128_> since I'm subscribed the ubuntu package on launchpad
<james_w> hmm
<seb128_> I get the bugs and comments about those but not the review comments
<james_w> you are subscribed to the bugs for the package
<seb128_> which means I'm somewhat tracking what's happening there but not quite
<james_w> but there's a separate subscription for the code review
<seb128_> hum
<seb128_> k
<james_w> and LP currently has no concept of subscribing to the package as a whole
<seb128_> I need to think about what how I would like it to be working
<james_w> we can get you subscribed to all the code review
<seb128_> I don't like how it works now ;-)
<james_w> yeah
<seb128_> no thanks
<james_w> we can certainly get you more emaill :-)
<seb128_> lol
<seb128_> I think I will be fine without that thank you
<seb128_> I think I would suggest that review comments should be available on the bug concerned too
<seb128_> though I'm not sure that would be right either
<seb128_> james_w, thanks for reviewing that change btw ;-)
<james_w> np
<james_w> I'll be sure to speak to you about GNOME changes that come in as code reviews
<seb128_> that's ok, I don't want to create extra work for you
<seb128_> and now that I know comments might be going in the review I will watch for those ;-)
<rickspencer3> team meeting time?
<seb128> rickspencer3, yes
 * tseliot nods
 * ArneGoetje waves
<didrocks> o/
<ccheney> here
<rickspencer3> ArneGoetje, bryce_, ccheney, chrisccoulson, didrocks, kenvandine, Nafai, pitti, Riddell, seb128, tkamppeter, tseliot
<rickspencer3> hi
<rickspencer3> who am I missing?
<tkamppeter> hi
<Nafai> o/
<pitti> o/
<james_w> seb128: bug 556656
<rickspencer3> two things before start
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 556656 in launchpad-code "Code reviews and bugs silo comments" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/556656
<Riddell> hi
<bryce_> hi
<seb128> james_w, thanks
<chrisccoulson> hi
<rickspencer3> 1. Hi Nafai - welcome to your first team meeting!
 * tseliot waves
<Nafai> Yay!  Thanks.
<rickspencer3> all Nafai started last Thursday
<rickspencer3> he'll be working with didrocks on UNE in 10.10, and also I am hoping on some application developer focused areas
<rickspencer3> (and if something else interests him as well)
<rickspencer3> Nafai, what's you real name, and why "Nafai"?
<Nafai> Travis Hartwell; back when I started with IRC in the 90's the network I was on 'travis' was taken, so I chose a name from some books I was reading at the time.  The Homecoming series by Orson Scott Card
<Nafai> It's kind of stuck
<rickspencer3> kewl
<rickspencer3> Nafai, based in Utah, USA, correct?
<Nafai> Yes
<rickspencer3> excellent
<rickspencer3> Nafai, pitti is your tech lead for the rest of 10.04
<rickspencer3> seb128, will be fore 10.10, we'll have a call soon
<Nafai> ok
<rickspencer3> but anyone here will be glad to help you with anything, i am sure
 * pitti puts on the "No, I won't fix your computer!" T-shirt
 * tseliot nods
<rickspencer3> hehe
<didrocks> welcome Nafai ;)
<rickspencer3> okay, except for pitti anyone will help with anything
<rickspencer3> ;)
<seb128> ;-)
<rickspencer3> also before we start, I think kenvandine won't be able to join us this morning, so we'll skip his parts and pick them up in the Eastern Edition if he is available then
<rickspencer3> let's rock
<rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-04-06
<rickspencer3> Riddell, kubuntu update?
<Riddell>  * beta 2 in good shape but some issues with installer in current images means rebuild needed
<Riddell>  * http://tinyurl.com/yjybcx9 15 milestoned bugs.  three have fixes committed.  if current fix rate continues we should be all fixed up before release
<Riddell> that's it, very quick this week :)
<rickspencer3> thanks Riddell
<rickspencer3> next is 10.10 blueprints
<rickspencer3> yeah!
<rickspencer3> time to start seriously thinking about 10.10 and what you want to accomplish there
<rickspencer3> for the first step, I would like everyone to generate a list of blueprints they want to bring to UDS
<rickspencer3> note that the requirement is just for a *list*
<rickspencer3> writing the blueprints will be the next phase
<rickspencer3> I'd like everyone to have a list by the next team meeting
<Riddell> isn't writing done at UDS?
<pitti> s/at/after/
<rickspencer3> Riddell, well, yes and no
<pitti> but the stubs and summary should be there before
<pitti> we need that for scheduling/planning
<rickspencer3> I expect there to be good thought put into them before they are accepted and such
<pitti> the actual meat (wiki page/work items) are after UDS
<rickspencer3> Riddell, but I get your  point
<rickspencer3> I guess rather than "written" I should have said "registered"
<rickspencer3> now, I am betting some of the newer folks are thinking "wtf?"
<rickspencer3> no worries
<Nafai> :)
<chrisccoulson> heh
<rickspencer3> if you don't know what blueprints to write, or how to register them and such ... please ping me out of band
<rickspencer3> we'll get together with pitti and seb128 and step you through it
<rickspencer3> but I would like to see everyone with a list by next Tuesday
<rickspencer3> any questions?
<seb128> where do we put the lists?
<rickspencer3> seb128, good question
<rickspencer3> shall we add them to the blueprint list wiki page I started?
<pitti> how about just registering stubs?
<pitti> desktop-maverick-frobnicate
<ccheney> don't they need to be registered to be scheduled anyway?
<seb128> I don't like much doing registration for random first thinking round
<rickspencer3> pitti, that's good too
<seb128> it creates quite some noise
<ccheney> seb128: ah i see your point
<pitti> seb128: for those, just put them into your weekly report, and keep a local list?
<seb128> wiki or in the activity reports?
<rickspencer3> pitti, since seb128 is tech lead for 10.10, I will delegate the decision to him, sound ok?
<pitti> ack
<seb128> there we go ;-)
<rickspencer3> seb128, be careful what you ask for ;)
 * rickspencer3 watches pitti wash hands
<rickspencer3> :)
<pitti> so, everyone snailmail them to seb128, in proper French language!
<seb128> lol
<didrocks> pitti: no pb ;)
<rickspencer3> hehe
<seb128> soooooo
<rickspencer3> (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/10.10/BlueprintList)
<seb128> register those you are sure about on launchpad using desktop-maverick-* + add those you want to discuss in your activty report?
<pitti> rickspencer3: will take me a bit to stop taking decisions and jumping on every question :)
<rickspencer3> pitti == Ubuntu Desktop :)
<seb128> rickspencer3, would that work for you?
<rickspencer3> seb128, sure
<seb128> or do you prefer using the wiki, easier maybe to list in one spot and do changes
<rickspencer3> seb128, well, you'll be organizing them, so it's what's easier for you
<rickspencer3> ;)
<rickspencer3> though I would like to take a look at everything next week, so folks can ask each other questions
<seb128> ok, so register + activity report
<pitti> seb128: NB that the desktop meeting page will have all activity reports in one wiki page anyway :)
 * rickspencer3 hears pitti chuckly
<seb128> we can discuss those in the activity report page in next meeting
<seb128> and review the list in launchpad too
<rickspencer3> ok
<rickspencer3> seb128, I'll put you down for that agenda item
 * kenvandine waves
<seb128> ok
<seb128> hey kenvandine
<rickspencer3> hi kenvandine, are you back?
<kenvandine> yeah
<pitti> ... and kenvandine will fix everything then, as decided
<pitti> oh, hi kenvandine!
<kenvandine> hehe
<kenvandine> :)
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, can you touch on partner status and gwibber briefly?
<kenvandine> yup
<kenvandine> sorry i didn't update the wiki with the partner update, been beating on gwibber
<kenvandine> OLS has a bug fix coming today, fixing the contact picker for file sharing
<kenvandine> of course it'll just get queued, nothing that needs to break release
<kenvandine> they are also working hard on desktopcouch
<kenvandine> chad has a branch in review that works around the keyring problem
<kenvandine> but it is a pretty big refactor
<rickspencer3> so no more desktopcouch-se == 100% CPU?
<kenvandine> the good news for them is he has narrowed the bug down to specific versions of libgnome-keyring0
<kenvandine> i haven't been successful doing that in gwibber
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, right
<seb128> did he narrow down the issue to a changeset?
<kenvandine> he thought he did, but i patched that out and still got the issue
<kenvandine> he was trying to do that yesterday afternoon, last i heard he hadn't found the specific commit
<seb128> ok
<seb128> it would be useful if he could find the commit
<kenvandine> yeah, i think that is what he worked on all day yesterday
<seb128> k
<kenvandine> in gwibber i think it is the combination of multiprocessing and threads
<kenvandine> perhaps we are spamming the keyring via dbus
<kenvandine> or something
<kenvandine> more about that after the meeting
<pitti> libdbus and threads is always an "interesting" combination
<kenvandine> nothing urgent in the pipe for DX as far as i know
<kenvandine> pitti, indeed
<pitti> it keeps failing on me for anything but the main thread
<kenvandine> pitti, it is the recipe for drinking heavily :)
<kenvandine> doing that in gwibber would be a pretty significant code change :/
<rickspencer3> ok, so a technical discussion for gwibber + keyring + threads right after the meeting?
<kenvandine> yeah
<rickspencer3> in that case, let's finish up ;)
<kenvandine> i have a proposal
<rickspencer3> pitti, release status?
<seb128> speaking of dx, if you have dx issue which you think should be considered for lucid, let me or dbarth know
<seb128> they are rocking their bugs list so might take over some extra issues for lucid ;-)
<pitti> all beta-2 work items done since last week, good job
<kenvandine> :)
<seb128> pitti, \o/
<pitti> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-desktop-team-ubuntu-10.04.html is looking fine
<pitti> no actual work items for us except to disable "file a bug" menu
<pitti> which we don't expect any problems with
<pitti> I'm a bit more concerned about the large number of open bugs still
<seb128> it's in the ubuntu-desktop ppa now
<seb128> if you want to test
<seb128> the lpi change
<pitti> remember that we basically have just one week left for the final push, then we'll go into final freeze
<pitti> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus is pretty up to date, FYI
<ccheney> what is the 'file a bug' issue is it something i need to change in OOo also, as it doesn't use lpi lib directly?
<pitti> ccheney: good point; we want to drop the menu item for final
<ccheney> pitti: is there a url about the issue?
<pitti> ccheney: well, it isn't a "must do", but it might help thinning the firehose of really bad bug reports that we get
<pitti> ccheney: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-bug-management
<rickspencer3> pitti, I see that tseliot has a certain number of bugs still open, tseliot are you on track, or do you want some help prioritizing?
<ccheney> pitti: ok
<ccheney> pitti: i'll talk to you more about it offline
<pitti> chrisccoulson: on that note, bug 447431 is still alive in current lucid :(
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 447431 in gnome-desktop "gnome-settings-daemon dies with BadMatch" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/447431
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, slangasek said
<pitti> but at this point, nothing more from me; any questions?
<chrisccoulson> i'm surprised about that though, as upstream ignore the error that caused the original crash now :-/
<tseliot> rickspencer3: I know but I can deal with them. I plan on fixing a fair amount in the next few days
<pitti> ccheney: does 3.2.1 have any chance to land still?
<ccheney> pitti: no, its still not released yet and i doubt it will be by next week
<pitti> ccheney: is 3.2.0 "good enough"?
<pitti> we might provide 3.2.1 in 10.04.1
<ccheney> pitti: we could stick it in a SRU if someone wants it, but 3.2.0 is probably good enough
<ccheney> pitti: of course i keep getting rc bugs at the last minute so 3.2.1 might be helpful as an sru in a month or two
<pitti> ccheney: that sounds fine. .1 is three months from now
<ccheney> pitti: ok yea that sounds fine
<pitti> rickspencer3: back to you
<Nafai> Remind me what SRU is?
<ccheney> stable release update
<rickspencer3> thanks pitti
<Nafai> thanks
<ccheney> Nafai: normally updates are only for security issues
<rickspencer3> Nafai, so it's like when users get an update in update manager
 * Nafai nods
<rickspencer3> they are either fixes for grave problems or trivial fixes (very low rist)
<rickspencer3> risk, even
<chrisccoulson> Nafai, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<rickspencer3> but with an LST we plan a couple of point releases
<rickspencer3> ok
<rickspencer3> Any other business?
<rickspencer3> ok
<rickspencer3> let's call that a wrap, and move on to discussing gwibber
 * rickspencer3 taps gavel
<kenvandine> sigh... :)
<didrocks> thanks, good luck kenvandine :)
<seb128> thanks
<kenvandine> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/410129/
<kenvandine> a test case that works fine calling the keyring
<kenvandine> gwibber does something like that, but mixes in data from desktopcouch and the actual processing happens via map_async in mulitprocessing.Pool
<kenvandine> if i remove the gobject.threads_init() it mostly works... no CPU load issues at all
<kenvandine> but then the async callbacks never get called
<kenvandine> and everything that depends on that breaks
<kenvandine> but the keyring calls are fine
<kenvandine> as a test i made the method that is called by map_async call a dbus method and it got a ton of errors from dbus, duplicate, already called with the same signature
<kenvandine> something like that
<kenvandine> it looked like it just made 10 dbus calls to the same method at the same time and dbus didn't like that, so a hunch is now that the keyring is using dbus perhaps that is a problem
<kenvandine> but i can't confirm that
<kenvandine> anyone have ideas?
<seb128> I don't
<seb128> chrisccoulson, james_w and pitti have been discussing dbus issues in the past they might have an idea on the issue
<seb128> or Keybuk
<kenvandine> at this point i think the most prudent thing to do is back out the keyring change... or at least disable it
<kenvandine> without the keyring call, it seems fine
<Keybuk> that sounds more like dbus-glib than dbus
<kenvandine> perhaps
<kenvandine> i am not getting any errors though
<james_w> kenvandine: what's a likely secret id I can substitute to run this?
<kenvandine> chad's work around for desktopcouch is move all the keyring calls out to the main thread
<kenvandine> look in couch
<kenvandine> or better
<kenvandine> in your keyring
<kenvandine> in fact
<kenvandine> just find any id in your login keyring
<kenvandine> and use that
<kenvandine> look in seahorse
<kenvandine> james_w, thing is, i can't reproduce the problem with a simple script like that
<kenvandine> let me add mulitprocessing stuff to it
<james_w> right, but a working example is a good place to start
<james_w> what's the id I should take from seahorse? "Name"?
 * Nafai heads off to lunch
<Nafai> bbl
<kenvandine> james_w, in the details tab
<james_w> "desktopcouch: oauth"
 * mvo has read "autsch"
<didrocks> Nafai: enjoy!
<james_w> kenvandine: ?
<kenvandine> yeah?
<kenvandine> {"desktopcouch": str("oauth")})[0].secret
<james_w> ok, thanks
<james_w> I thought everything had an id
<james_w> and I had to work out the id of one that I have
<kenvandine> sorry, no... it is arbitrary i think
<kenvandine> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/410145/
<kenvandine> james_w, that test pegs the CPU
<kenvandine> or anyone else that wants to look at it
<rickspencer3> Nafai, you worked on twisted, right?
<kenvandine> twisted... shiver
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, well, that's all async and crazy, right?
<kenvandine> yrah
<rickspencer3> so maybe Nafai has some insight into this
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> that would rock :)
<rickspencer3> but he's having lunch
<rickspencer3> he succumed to his physical needs
<rickspencer3> this is why have transfered my ghost into the net
<kenvandine> i am about to eat myself :)
<rickspencer3> ^lame gits reference
<chrisccoulson> kenvandine - i just ran your example python code there in GDB
<chrisccoulson> it's messed up. the same GMainContext is being run in 2 different threads
<chrisccoulson> and the glib documentation makes it quite clear that you can't do that
<kenvandine> but any idea what is causing that?
<chrisccoulson> "To allow multiple independent sets of sources to be handled in different threads, each source is associated with a GMainContext. A GMainContext can only be running in a single thread, but sources can be added to it and removed from it from other threads."
<james_w> ok, now we're cooking
<chrisccoulson> kenvandine, yeah, i suspect that the keyring call goes in to the mainloop for a bit whilst it waits for the return values from dbus
<kenvandine> chrisccoulson, so if you comment out gobject.threads_init() all is peachy
<kenvandine> but of course then you don't get the callbacks
<chrisccoulson> kenvandine, i didn't try that yet, but i suspect it will be
<kenvandine> which in the case of gwibber tons of things rely on
<chrisccoulson> one second
<kenvandine> i tried moving to gtk.gdk.threads_init and using threads_enter and threads_leave
<kenvandine> but had the same issue
<kenvandine> same thing for using gtk.gdk.lock
<kenvandine> seems having those parallel processes causes havoc if threads are enabled
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, sorry if this is stupid, but could you signals instead of call backs for the between thread communication?
<rickspencer3> (and I mean __gsignal__ stuff)
<kenvandine> not sure how that works with multiprocessing
<kenvandine> they are separate processes
<kenvandine> but there must be a way, not sure if it would help
<kenvandine> or you mean drop multiprocessing?
<chrisccoulson> kenvandine, i've missed most of what you've been discussing, but why does the gnome keyring call need to run in it's own thread?
<rickspencer3> no
<kenvandine> chrisccoulson, it is running in a thread that is used to process an operation, like for example download a feed from twitter
<kenvandine> etc
<kenvandine> post to identica, blah blah blah
 * rickspencer3 steps away
<chrisccoulson> kenvandine, so, even if you moved the gnome-keyring call to the main thread, you'd still end up with multiple threads all running the same GMainContext?
<kenvandine> chrisccoulson, it could of course be refactored to not do the multiprocessing stuff... but that is quite a bit of refactoring for this close to release
<kenvandine> yeah
<chrisccoulson> ouch
<chrisccoulson> that is really quite broken :(
<kenvandine> well, but none of the other calls matter there
<kenvandine> but indeed, there must be a way to handle that
<chrisccoulson> kenvandine, so, essentially, you can't guarantee which threads certain events run in?
<kenvandine> surely gwibber isn't the only app using both gobject and multiprocessing
<chrisccoulson> if my understanding is correct
<chrisccoulson> event sources are associated with a GMainContext, so if you run the same one in multiple threads, that's going to create quite a mess isn't it?
<james_w> kenvandine: I dropped trying to use multiprocessing for something I was doing as it was sharing too much state with the child processes and breaking DBus interaction
<chrisccoulson> when i ran the test script here, gdb showed both threads blocking on poll() with the same context, so if gwibber really does that then there is no way you can guarantee what thread each callback will run in (as each thread is going to race when an event source is ready)
<chrisccoulson> or am i missing something here?
<chrisccoulson> or being completely stupid?
<kenvandine> humm
<crimsun> TheMuso: you may need to switch (codec->subsystem_id):case 0x17aa4001:, but because I don't have the codec SSID for the u150 that's currently in HEAD, that's problematic. If you intend to support this in ubuntu-lucid.git, you'll need to backport the ideapad cxt5066 model & quirk from upstream.
<kenvandine> chrisccoulson, but that is harmless right? it isn't blocking each other
<kenvandine> chrisccoulson, and each thread is processing a different operation
<kenvandine> i think the problem is calling the keyring call with that same context
<chrisccoulson> kenvandine, no, that's definately not harmless. you'll end up with all sorts of locking issues in glib and in your code
<kenvandine> and potentially other calls could do the same, but other than that i think it is pretty isolated
<kenvandine> so your saying python multiprocessing can't be mixes with gobject?
<kenvandine> s/mixes/mixed/
<kenvandine>  python multiprocessing is specifically designed to share information between processes
<crimsun> TheMuso: I've asked for alsa-info.sh dumps in the bug so that we can check the codec dump. One thing to test before jumping down the rabbit hole of modifying cxt5066_ideapad_automic() is whether the VREF needs to be set differently, since that would potentially be a much less intrusive change.
<kenvandine> james_w, so you think we just need to drop multiprocessing?
<james_w> kenvandine: I don't know
<james_w> chrisccoulson's findings would suggest that you are suffering a similar issue
<kenvandine> i don't see any specific problem solved by using multiprocessing here... but that is quite a bit of refactoring
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> which has been my suspicion
<kenvandine> without the gobject threads, it is fine
<kenvandine> and without multiprocessing it is fine... but mixing them is yucky
<kenvandine> in fact... ryan dropped keyring integration back in the 1.x days because they were getting races with the keyring... perhaps it was related
<kenvandine> this specific code in gwibber is very old...
<james_w> there may be something we can do in limiting the amount of context that the parent passes to the child
<james_w> my suspicion is that it is globals that are causing this, as they are copied, rather than getting different objects in the child
<james_w> but I don't really understand why they look the same across address spaces
<chrisccoulson> right
<chrisccoulson> it seems that libgnome-keyring is not thread-safe anyway
<chrisccoulson> in connect_to_service() in gkr-operation, it calls egg_dbus_connect_with_mainloop(conn, NULL), which causes it to use the default GMainContext (which is the one created in your parent thread)
<chrisccoulson> so
<chrisccoulson> you would need to do all the keyring stuff from your main thread
<Guest279> Hello
<Guest279> Anyone know about Restoring Partitions?
<chrisccoulson> Guest279, #ubuntu is for support
<Guest279> oh thanks
<YokoZar> What package does someone mean when they say "the pthread library"
<YokoZar> oops wrong channel
<chrisccoulson> kenvandine, does that make more sense now? sorry, i don't know how far you got with debugging this before, so i might have repeated what other people already discovered
<kenvandine> yes, that is helpful
<kenvandine> doesn't make it clear what the right fix is :)
<baptistemm> good evening
<kenvandine> hey baptistemm
<baptistemm> hello kenvandine
<fta> kenvandine, chrisccoulson: why does transmission properly show & hide from the indicator applet while rhythmbox can't??
<kenvandine> fta, you mean it toggles?
<kenvandine> i think the spec says it should raise the window
<fta> kenvandine, it clearly doesn't
<kenvandine> you mean transmission doesn't?
<Sarvatt> pitti: video=LVDS-1:d is your friend :)
<fta> for transmission, it's mostly ok, with a few more steps, it's possible to raise / hide it
<pitti> Sarvatt: ah, thanks for the hint
<fta> for rhythmbox, it's totally broken
<pitti> Sarvatt: still a bit sad to see the live CD not boot at all :(
<fta> kenvandine, ^^
<pitti> Sarvatt: "d" means "disable"?
<fta> kenvandine, (i'm using metacity)
<Sarvatt> yeah, :e for enable
<fta> kenvandine, strangely, it was fine on my old desktop (lucid). it's broken on my fresh install (new system disk)
<seb128> fta, how broken?
<fta> can't hide it
<kenvandine> fta, i don't think it is supposed to
<kenvandine> i know with the old status icon it did toggle
<fta> and i can only raise it if it was iconified/minified
<kenvandine> ok, that seems like a bug... i just saw the same thing too
<kenvandine> if it is open, but in the background
<fta> not if it's visible in another workspace
<kenvandine> it doesn't get raised
<Guest279> Is this the place to ask a question?
<kenvandine> seb128, wasn't that working before?
<kenvandine> Guest279, no, #ubuntu for support
<seb128> fta, I can hide it by closing the dialog using the x wm button
<Guest279> oh
<seb128> and show it using the indicator
<kenvandine> seb128, don't close it but raise another window
<kenvandine> then try showing it
<seb128> but that might be because I changed the gconf key
<seb128> it's claiming for attention
<seb128> that's a known wm "bug" for years
<kenvandine> yeah... but with the timestamps i thought it worked now?
<kenvandine> it does raise when i close it or minimize it
<seb128> it's not clear if the show call should show you the dialog where you are
<seb128> or move you where the dialog is...
<fta> seb128, well, i'm used to the old style tray where the "show" was a toggle, like transmission
<kenvandine> i see
<seb128> or claim for attention
<kenvandine> fta, yeah... there has been much debate about that :)
<seb128> fta, the indicators are menus, not toggles
<seb128> ctrl-w not working is a known bug
<fta> transmission clearly has a checkbox there
<seb128> we should fix that
<seb128> right, rhythmbox doesn't
<seb128> we should check with mpt or design team what the behaviour should be
<fta> it's confusing
<seb128> it's inconsistant now
<seb128> either we should have checkbox
<kenvandine> seb128, i did back when we did the patch, they said should always raise not toggle
<seb128> or close the dialog to hide it and a show item
<seb128> right
<seb128> that was my understanding too
<seb128> close to close and use the menu to show
<kenvandine> we did the same for empathy and pidgin
<fta> you should gray/disable the show then
<seb128> why?
<seb128> it's showing
<kenvandine> i guess whoever did the transmission work didn't follow the same guidelines
<kenvandine> fta, you mean when it is already focused right?
<seb128> the entry is still valid
<fta> (if it's already visible)
<seb128> well you can stil show it
<seb128> it makes no graphical difference
<seb128> but it's not buggy either
<kenvandine> everything just needs to be consistent
<fta> hm, even transmission has issues, xchat is on top, i call for transmission, it appears behind xchat
<kenvandine> fta, that is the window manager issue seb128 mentioned
<kenvandine> long standing problem :/
 * kenvandine eats... bbs
<kenvandine> Nafai, ping
<Nafai> pong
<kenvandine> hey, i hear you have some twisted experience? and might be helpful with nasty threading issues :)
<Nafai> Yes, I used to be a Twisted core developer
<kenvandine> the gwibber problem seems to stem from mixing gobject threads and python multiprocessing
<kenvandine> so when the processes get the same GMainContext
<kenvandine> which is likely the basis for all the issues we get calling the keyring from inside that thread
<kenvandine> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/410145/
<kenvandine> Nafai, a test case that will make your CPU peg :)
<Nafai> sweet
 * Nafai looks
<kenvandine> of course we could refactor everything to not use multiprocessing, but that is a significant change... i am hoping there is some way to we can make them play nicely
 * Nafai nods
<Nafai> let me poke around for a bit :)
<kenvandine> thx Nafai
<baptistemm> hmm, I have a question, who should I ping to get bug 544150 included?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 544150 in bluez "bluez should ship serial.conf" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/544150
<pitti> good night everyone
<didrocks> good night pitti
 * didrocks will follow pitti
<Nafai> night guys
<didrocks> once again, I said that I will take an early evening
<didrocks> and it's a fail :)
<didrocks> have a good afternoon Nafai!
<seb128> didrocks, it's not late!
<seb128> baptistemm, subscribe ubuntu-sponsors?
<rickspencer3> Nafai ... $quickly debug ftw
<rickspencer3> can't wait to try it
<Nafai> :)
<Nafai> very handy
<rickspencer3> Nafai, any luck with gwibber?
<Nafai> not yet :(
<Nafai> going to try profiling it next
<Nafai> kenvandine: asynchronous stuff with Twisted is easier to debug :)  I'm not sure what's going on
<kenvandine> Nafai, if you figure something out... ping me and i will read it later on tonigh
<kenvandine> hehe
<Nafai> I ran the profiler on it and got this output: http://paste.ubuntu.com/410243/
<kenvandine> i gotta go for now though, if you figure anything out just tell me and i will read the scrollback later :)
<Nafai> ok
<kenvandine> i have a flower bed and 92F sunny yard begging me to go do some digging :/
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, dig it!
<rickspencer3> I can see we are getting close the beta
<rickspencer3> only 38 Megs to download
<rickspencer3> seb128, pitti how hard would it be to turn off auto-syncing for lucid in the beta, until we can get this 100% thing licked?
<rickspencer3> kenvandine ^ you too, but I assume you are afk
<seb128> rickspencer3, hum, what do you mean by auto syncing there?
<rickspencer3> seb128, I mean "auto-running" I guess
<rickspencer3> auto-starting?
<seb128> oh
<rickspencer3> like, when you log on, don't start gwibber automatically
<rickspencer3> is it too late for the beta to do that?
<seb128> I guess it would be trivial
<rickspencer3> (I am fine if it's too late)
<seb128> but I doubt they would roll new isos for that
<rickspencer3> right
<rickspencer3> so "too late"
<seb128> that's still a beta
<rickspencer3> yeah, it's fine
<rickspencer3> we just don't exactly need more bug reports on the issue
<rickspencer3> ;)
<seb128> we get that many bugs?
<rickspencer3> seb128, well, we get many "me toos" on the bug report
<rickspencer3> so, I assume we'll get lots of bug reports after the beta
<rickspencer3> like I say, though, it's not something worth causing extra work around the beta for (imho)
<seb128> let's aim at getting it fixed by unfreeze time
<rickspencer3> well, let's get it fixed asap!
<seb128> right
<rickspencer3> Nafai, do you have any other tasks aside from looking at the Gwibber bug?
<rickspencer3> I'm hoping another pair of eyes can help
<Nafai> yeah, I have an indicator application related bug I'm looking at, but if there is something higher priority I can jump on it
<rickspencer3> mmm
<rickspencer3> no, we need you on the indicators
<rickspencer3> so after that, Gwibber until the break of day
<rickspencer3> ;)
<Nafai> ok, can do that
<seb128> Nafai, could you look at bug #553423 too when you have some time for the issue?
<Nafai> Sure
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 553423 in brasero "Untranslated string in menu option of Brasero's tray icon, albeit it's translated in Launchpad" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/553423
<seb128> thanks
<Nafai> np
<Nafai> stepping away for a moment, bbiab
<TheMuso> Good morning.
<rickspencer3> Hi TheMuso
<rickspencer3> TheMuso, Eastern Edition in 50 minutes, right?
<TheMuso> rickspencer3: yep sounds good.
<rickspencer3> things have been sliding all over my calendar
<rickspencer3> all the dst
<rickspencer3> s everywhere taking hold, I guess
<TheMuso> yep
 * desrt has the bvta blues
<desrt> *beta
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-04-07
<rickspencer3> TheMuso, robert_ancell, bryceh, RAOF Eastern Edition?
<TheMuso> Sure.
<RAOF> Yup.
<robert_ancell> go
<rickspencer3> k
<rickspencer3> should be right quick
<rickspencer3> how about I touch on the highlights, then you can read the wiki at your leisure?
<rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-04-06
<rickspencer3> so first:
<rickspencer3> 1. Welcome Nafai to the team
<rickspencer3> he started full time last Thursday
<rickspencer3> he'll be working with didrocks on UNE, and also other coding tasks
<rickspencer3> for partner update, the thing here is that Gwibber is still giving lots of heart ache
<rickspencer3> basically, it thread locks when trying to access the key ring
<rickspencer3> and this pegs the CPU to 100%
 * TheMuso saw that bug.
<rickspencer3> it doesn't look easy to fix without a pretty major refactoring
<bryceh> heya
<rickspencer3> anyone can feel free to take a look there and see if they can help
<rickspencer3> hiya bryceh
<rickspencer3> kubuntu is looking good
<rickspencer3> so, blueprints
<rickspencer3> I'd like everyone to have a *list* of blueprints ready to discuss at next team meeting
<rickspencer3> you don't have to have the blueprint all detailed out, but a list of topics you want to cover at UDS
<rickspencer3> for ones you are certain about, seb128 says to go ahead and log the blueprint
<rickspencer3> for ones you are not certain about, add the list to your section for your activity report
<TheMuso> Sounds good.
<RAOF> Yup
<rickspencer3> if you haven't been through blueprinting before, or don't know what blueprints you want to create, to talk to me me/or pitti and/or seb128
<rickspencer3> sound good?
<bryceh> yep
<rickspencer3> for release status, well ... we're getting down to the end
<rickspencer3> pitti notes all the work is done, but we've got some bugs, some bad ones
<bryceh> RAOF, shall I register the Xorg blueprints or would you prefer to?
<rickspencer3> and only 9 days left before final freeze
<rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<rickspencer3> bryceh could you walk RAOF through the process some time this week?
<bryceh> rickspencer3, certainly
<RAOF> bryceh: I'd like to learn the blueprinting ropes, yeah.
<rickspencer3> I think it would be easier for you both if RAOF has logged them, but he'll need some help
<rickspencer3> also RAOF may want to make one or two of his own
<rickspencer3> :)
<bryceh> alright, we can tackle it after the meeting
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, well well well, you'll be back on the desktop team!
<rickspencer3> that will be so awesome
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, yay!
<rickspencer3> so think about blueprints that you want to do
<rickspencer3> I started a list of ones that I am interested in here:
<rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/10.10/BlueprintList
<rickspencer3> that was the meeting
<TheMuso> short and sweet.
<rickspencer3> bryceh, anything to discuss/report regarding xorg?
<rickspencer3> TheMuso, same question for sound
<TheMuso> rickspencer3: No, except for the bug we were talking about yesterday, which I will continue looking into today, need to read the latest bits on the bug from overnight.
<rickspencer3> k
<rickspencer3> TheMuso, this is only certain Mac models, right?
<TheMuso> rickspencer3: its not mac, its thinkpad.
<rickspencer3> oh
<TheMuso> sorry ideapad
<rickspencer3> ah
<rickspencer3> bummer
<bryceh> rickspencer3, plenty of bugs, but I think we're doing ok
<rickspencer3> bryceh, plenty of bugs, or plenty of bug reports? ;)
<bryceh> rickspencer3, plenty of bug reports ;-)
<bryceh> there seem to be no major catastrophes going on, which is nice
<RAOF> I think the X bugs look a little worse than it is; I think that lots of the Intel reports I looked at yesterday should be fixed in the 2.6.32-19 kernel.
<rickspencer3> bryceh, any progress on the bug where clutter crashes when programs exit? I saw there was a patch for it, but bug reports seemed to suggest it didn't work everyone
<bryceh> rickspencer3, that's right.  It's looking to be a kernel bug, but I'm still tracking it.  Sarvatt has been identifying patches which may be relevant
 * rickspencer3 gets bug #
<bryceh> http://www2.bryceharrington.org:8080/X/Reports/ubuntu-x-swat/totals-lucid-workqueue.svg
<bryceh> ^ shows we're getting new bugs coming in at a pretty heavy clip but all the bumpiness in the graphs show that triagers are quite active
<rickspencer3> http://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/550218
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 550218 in xorg-server "xserver crashes when closing application using clutter" [High,Confirmed]
<bryceh> I managed to get -ati completely caught up for a few moments yesterday :-)
<rickspencer3> wow
<rickspencer3> pretty neat
<rickspencer3> bryceh, I see you only have 2 Highs assigned to you
<rickspencer3> seems quite a change from previous releases ... great job!
<bryceh> yeah, I need to review that patch sarvatt posted last night, it sounds like it might be a good fix
<rickspencer3> nice
<rickspencer3> well ... that's all I want to pester you guys about this morning/afternoon
<rickspencer3> any other business?
<bryceh> rickspencer3, yeah I tell you this approach of looking only at bugs tagged 'lucid' helps a lot, since I can focus a lot more on the most relevant bugs
<rickspencer3> bryceh, that's great to hear
<rickspencer3> sounds a lot saner too
<rickspencer3> bryceh, I'm hoping you bake some of this learning (and these sweet charts) into launchpad during Maverick
<desrt> so..... just put the beta on my new computer
<bryceh> oh I've got one other thing...
<rickspencer3> go ahead
<desrt> 13 seconds from grub to sitting at my desktop with nautilus and panel loaded
<bryceh> I've produced reports of 'upstream-fixed' bugs
<desrt> very nice.
<rickspencer3> hi desrt
<desrt> rickspencer3: hi :)
<bryceh> oh wait, it's broke
<bryceh> rickspencer3, nevermind
<rickspencer3> hehe
 * bryceh gtg's a todo
<desrt> bryceh: you're using gtg?  nice.
<rickspencer3> bryceh, I need an irc interface into your gtg
<rickspencer3> bryce doesn't just *use* gtg
<bryceh> hehe
<rickspencer3> he *is* gtg
<RAOF> :)
<bryceh> nah I just contribute bits and pieces to it when I have free time, which these days is hardly ever ;-)
<rickspencer3> lol
<rickspencer3> well, I was a bit referring to how organized you are
<rickspencer3> but yeah, there's the contributions too ;)
<bryceh> oh, heh, that's true!
<rickspencer3> desrt, so you're finding the beta ok?
<desrt> i've had *a lot* of issues
<desrt> almost all of them X-related
<desrt> like X crashes on startup on this new dell PC i got
<desrt> it has some ultra-new nvidia card in it that's not properly covered by nouveau yet
<desrt> works OK with binary drivers
<bryceh> desrt, RAOF will be interested in looking at the bug reports you file about the -nouveau issues
<RAOF> He will indeed.
<bryceh> desrt, so long as at least one video driver is sufficing to get you up and running, though, that's the important thing
<rickspencer3> ah, nvidia
<RAOF> City of myyystery?
<rickspencer3> true
<desrt> bryceh: ya.  i honestly don't care too much about the opensource-purity thing anymore
<rickspencer3> we've had uses in much worse situations I suppose
<desrt> i lose too much of my tiem and sanity being a freedom warrior when it comes to graphics drivers
<bryceh> we're sort of viewing nouveau in lucid mainly as a bridge to get the binary driver installed, since -nouveau lacks 3D and other niceties
<TheMuso> Being an NVIDIA user myself, it is nice to not have to install NVIDIA drivers any more to use my system at a deacent performance.
<rickspencer3> desrt, did jockey do the right thing for you then?
<desrt> no?
<rickspencer3> (install the binary driver easily)?
 * TheMuso doesn't need 3D.
<RAOF> A better -nv for the moment.  Maverick should include nouveau's 3D too, I think.
<desrt> i didn't even get the chance.  it crashed on startup.
<desrt> first boot
<desrt> oddly, the installer CD was fine
<rickspencer3> ewe
<TheMuso> RAOF: Nice.
<desrt> so not sure what the difference there is
<rickspencer3> RAOF might know
<desrt> maybe it's because i plugged my second monitor in after that
<bryceh> desrt, out of curiosity after crash did it boot into failsafe mode?
<desrt> no.  i don't think so.
<desrt> i had to manually go into recovery mode
<RAOF> desrt: Oh.  By âcrashâ do you mean âplymouth hung at five red dotsâ?
<desrt> and install the binary driver
<desrt> RAOF; yes.  that's distinctly possible
<bryceh> ah
<desrt> that certainly describes what i was seeing on the screen at the time
<bryceh> yeah that's not a "crash" but rather a "freeze" (or "gpu hang")
<RAOF> desrt: Welcome to the wonderful world of bug #533135
<desrt> glad you know about it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 533135 in plymouth "System fails to boot with plymouth installed (nouveau driver with >1 display)" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/533135
<desrt> installing the nvidia binary driver gives me a really ugly plymouth
<desrt> to be honest, i'm not sure why you guys bothered
 * RAOF quite likes the text-mode plymouth.  It's neat!
<desrt> the thing boots in the blink of an eye anyway
<TheMuso> Sounds like vga16 wasn't ready in time for lucid...
<desrt> RAOF: is there a way for me to get the text-mode one?
<desrt> my bootup tends to be something like:
<desrt> first 2 seconds: nothing
<desrt> next 5 seconds: blinking cursor, sometimes an fsck message
<desrt> next 1 second: some flicker or somthing
<desrt> next 1 second: i see plymouth
<desrt> then: X is loaded, login screen
<desrt> i'd much rather look at 2 seconds of nothing followed by 7 seconds of some pretty text-based thing followed by X :)
<RAOF> I thought the 5 seconds should have a plymouth screen on them.
 * desrt reboots, takes careful notes
<RAOF> There's a plymouth-set-theme or something to switch between themes; you could swith to text there.
<desrt> ok.  my numbers are pretty much correct
<desrt> the splash is up for ~1sec
<rickspencer3> desrt, I think that plymouth is actually not working on computers with hard drives (as apposed to SD drivers) atm
<rickspencer3> that may have been fixed though
<desrt> SD drivers?
<rickspencer3> I mean sd drives, sorry
<desrt> well, this has an ssd
<rickspencer3> oh
<rickspencer3> then it should be working in any case
<desrt> it's an sata ssd, if that makes a difference
<rickspencer3> desrt, there is something wrong
<desrt> meh.  i don't lose too much sleep over it
<rickspencer3> like the fsck message should be handled by plymouth and such
<desrt> 5 seconds of looking at a blinking cursor instead of a pretty screen isn't high on my worries list :)
<rickspencer3> especially since it looks like your boot is like 10 seconds ;)
<desrt> more or less
<desrt> my girlfriend took a video of the boot and she's uploading it to youtube now
<rickspencer3> still, some users will be bothered by the boot not being "pretty"
<desrt> it's taking a while because the file is big, but i'll share the link when it's done
<rickspencer3> kewl
<desrt> RAOF: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jX9L1VPjgEA
<desrt> that's what i get
<RAOF> Hm.  I think that looks about right, actually.  You could get an earlier splash (at the expense of slightly slower boot) by including the kms drivers in the initramfs (my laptops have this, because it's needed for cryptsetup), but that looks to me like plymouth starts up pretty much once you've left the initramfs, which is as soon as it can be.
<desrt> so i ask again: why bother?
<desrt> if the soonest that plymouth can start up is about 1 second before X starts....
<RAOF> On stonking fast hardware, yes.  And plymouth isn't just the bootsplash; IIRC it's also useful for user-prompting and it *should* give a nice fsck progress info box thingy.
<desrt> ah
<desrt> let me see about marking my drives for mandatory fscking on next boot
<TheMuso> desrt: afaik thats not possible any more with upstart...
<LaserJock> arrrg, what happened to pinned tabs in Chromium?! :(
<kenvandine> hey rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> hi kenvandine
<LaserJock> hey, my two favorite guys
<LaserJock> so ..... any word on gwibber? :-)
<kenvandine> not yet...
<kenvandine> called in the big guns... Nafai is going to try to crack it :)
<LaserJock> is it looking like the fix will have to be deep?
<kenvandine> it looks like python multiprocessing just doesn't like gobject threads
<LaserJock> mhm
<kenvandine> it might require a pretty significant refactoring in gwibber in order to use the keyring
<kenvandine> unless Nafai can figure out a way to make it work :)
<rickspencer3> well, yeah, I figured as such
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, are there tests for Gwibberg?
<rickspencer3> Gwibber, even?
<rickspencer3> Gwibberg is another project i am working on
<kenvandine> hehe
<LaserJock> hmm
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, perhaps we could spend one day writing tests
 * LaserJock imagines rickspencer3 toiling away in a secret basement lab
<rickspencer3> then refactor the code starting the next day?
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, i have a good test case already
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, test cases for gwibber?
<kenvandine> no... but for this problem
<rickspencer3> right
<kenvandine> outside of gwibber
<kenvandine> we need a test suite though
<LaserJock> but you need to make sure you don't introduce regressions
<kenvandine> one of the things i want to work on :)
<rickspencer3> right
<rickspencer3> so what I am suggesting is this
<kenvandine> we can't write a test suite in the next couple days :)
<rickspencer3> 1. tomorrow is dedicated to writing a test suite
 * kenvandine is on vacation tomorrow :)
<rickspencer3> 2. next day we start refactoring
<rickspencer3> ok, then move it up to Thursday
<kenvandine> :)
<rickspencer3> we really only need to untangle the key ring part,
<rickspencer3> so we can focus writing tests in that area
<rickspencer3> I don't foresee an easy fix
<rickspencer3> we still have 9 days to move this forward, which should be enough for this problem
<kenvandine> actually that is the least of my worries :)
<rickspencer3> what else are you worried about?
<kenvandine> it is easy to see if the keyring is a problem with the refactor
<kenvandine> it is all the "operations"
<kenvandine> ryan writes very compact code :)
<kenvandine> so he has this constructor that creates a number of different types of operations
<kenvandine> and they get wrapped up and thrown at map_async to run them
<rickspencer3> hmmm
<kenvandine> i am just worried about the potential breakage we could hit move that out of map_async
<Pupuser402> hello,
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, what is map_async exactly?
<Pupuser402> I've been having problem sending to the desktop mail list
<kenvandine> from multiprocessing.Pool
<Pupuser402> I've contacted the owner but nothing changed
<Pupuser402> any one can help?
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, it runs a method in a pool of processes and handles calling the defined callbacks for success, failures... timeout, etc
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, is it ryan's code?
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, do you own that list?
<rickspencer3> or part of a library
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, yes
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, no
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, it's ryan's code?
<kenvandine> all ryan's
<kenvandine> and it is kind of ugly
<rickspencer3> an every operation goes through there?
<kenvandine> yes
<kenvandine> however... it is possible that the nature of this will make the refactoring easy... assuming we understand what it is doing :)
<kenvandine> easy as in # of lines to change
<kenvandine> but my fear is all the corner cases
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, is multiprocessing a python library?
<kenvandine> besides all that, i am surprised that something so generally useful like python multiprocesssing just can't be made to work with gobject
<kenvandine> yes
<kenvandine> it handles dispatching operations into separate processes that share some data
<rickspencer3> so it all gets channeled through line 339 of dispather.py
<kenvandine> yes
<rickspencer3> so we either find the magic "make it work" flag
<kenvandine> pool.map_async(self.func, self.iterable, callback=self.callback).get(self.timeout)
<kenvandine> that runs every operation
<rickspencer3> or we change map_async.run() to use some other threading mechanism
<rickspencer3> basically write our own map_async()
<kenvandine> yeah, gut the MapAsync class and make it run them a new way
<rickspencer3> jeezum
<rickspencer3> this is almost exactly like my asynch_task_progressbox class
<kenvandine> humm
<kenvandine> pastebin?
<rickspencer3> what does iterable do?
<kenvandine> that is operations
<kenvandine> a list of operations
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, you can look at quickly.widgets.asynch_task_progressbox.py
<rickspencer3> it just uses python threads
<rickspencer3> so it
<rickspencer3> s week
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, would this work at all with threads?
<kenvandine> i think so
<rickspencer3> obviously it would lack the ability to use mutliple processors and such
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, what does iterable do?
<kenvandine> it is a list of things to do
<kenvandine> so in this case it is a nested list i think
<rickspencer3> I see
<rickspencer3> like a list of functions to call?
<kenvandine> no :)
<kenvandine> they all call perform_operation
<kenvandine> but look at the args to perform_operation
<kenvandine> the args to that method is a single item in iterable
<rickspencer3> so it's useless
<kenvandine> def perform_operation((acctid, opname, args, transient)):
<kenvandine> (acctid, opname, args, transient)
<kenvandine> that is a single item in a list
<kenvandine> so it calls perform_operation a bunch of times in parallel with a different operation for each
<kenvandine> like twitter:receive, twitter:replies, twitter:private_messages
<kenvandine> etc
<kenvandine> if you post a status update
<kenvandine> it creates a list of operations that include send for each service you have send_enabled for
<kenvandine> and calls them all in parallel
<kenvandine> this is also why it is so hard for us to know if a single operation fails or not
<kenvandine> i actually really hate this code
<kenvandine> if there are problems it is quite hard to really get in and figure it out to debug
<kenvandine> however... i have never actually found a bug in this code path... but have looked there many times
<rickspencer3> yes, it's hard to read
<rickspencer3> and it may not be buggy per se
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, it is a pain though
<rickspencer3> yes indeed
<kenvandine> i don't think we should touch perform_operation though
<kenvandine> but perhaps the pool stuff that calls it
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, i am still hoping the awesome Nafai comes through... it is nice to use the library to do it :)
<rickspencer3> seems that perform_operation could be put on a thread manually
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, would gwibber break if each operation was done in sequence instead of in parallel?
<kenvandine> shouldn't
<rickspencer3> jeezum
<rickspencer3> MapAsync is itself a thread
<rickspencer3> which then spawns all these processes
<kenvandine> i don't know if there is a specific reason he chose it
<rickspencer3> dude, what if we just set processes to 1?
<kenvandine> i tried
<kenvandine> doesn't work
<kenvandine> i also tried chunksize 1
<rickspencer3> dang it
<rickspencer3> no easy answers
<kenvandine> yeah... tell me about it
<rickspencer3> wouldn't chunksize kinda be 1 by default?
<kenvandine> i think so, but that isn't clear
<kenvandine> learning a little more about this pool stuff has been intersting
<kenvandine> it is cool stuff
<rickspencer3> yeah
<rickspencer3> but when you write threaded code, it has to be tight and readable :/
<RAOF> And preferably not actually threaded :)
<RAOF> (I've played with twisted before, and the Deferred stuff is nice)
<rickspencer3> yeah
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, calling pool like this seems to be working for now:
<rickspencer3> pool = multiprocessing.Pool(1)
<rickspencer3> maybe it's just luck though
<rickspencer3> yeah, looks like it was just luck, when I told gwibber to refresh it pegged again
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, it takes 2 or 3 refreshes to see it
<rickspencer3> yeah
<kenvandine> which i find weird
<rickspencer3> well, it pretty reliable pegs on the first try for me
<kenvandine> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/410145/
<kenvandine> that is a good script to play with for trying to make the pool stuff work
<rickspencer3> so ken, you think the best approach is to try to make the call to the keyring work in the existing model
<rickspencer3> rather than try to refactor the code?
<kenvandine> yes
<kenvandine> if it can work...
<kenvandine> although i was ready to give up yesterday :)
<rickspencer3> you need a day off
<kenvandine> i do
<kenvandine> :)
<rickspencer3> I'll put Nafai on this full time starting tomorrow
<kenvandine> great
<rickspencer3> RAOF, what are you working on?
<RAOF> X bugs, and lentil soup.
<RAOF> Particularly: making it so that lucid will boot on recent macbook pros.
<rickspencer3> mmm
<rickspencer3> that sounds important too :)
<RAOF> A bit of python hacking sounds fun, though.
<kenvandine> ha... this isn't the fun kind :)
<rickspencer3> RAOF, yeah, so this is a pretty tough nut
<RAOF> I'm always suspicious of python without unittests :).
<rickspencer3> basically, if you can make that script that ken pasted in work
<rickspencer3> without pegging the CPU, obviously
<kenvandine> i really need to resurrect those tests
<kenvandine> and create mock stuff for all the services
<rickspencer3> can gwibber just get all of the passwords it needs and store them in memory
<rickspencer3> and then replace the call to the king ring to a call to a new function that just reads from a dict?
<kenvandine> potentially, i looked at that
<kenvandine> then we need to add the credentials to the operation
<kenvandine> it is nearly as much code to change as refactoring out the pool code
<rickspencer3> really?
<kenvandine> and... we would need a way to change that password if the user does
<rickspencer3> we can't just write a module
<kenvandine> yeah, cause some services use a secret_key, some password, etc
<rickspencer3> an replace a call to that module where the call to the key ring occurs?
<kenvandine> right
<kenvandine> oh, that doesn't work :/
<kenvandine> cause it gets called from that thread
<kenvandine> i did that
<RAOF> Or just monkey-patch gnomekeyring to take a lock before all the operations?
<kenvandine> same thing happens
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, I mean, write a module that gets all the credentials at startup out of the keyring
<kenvandine> RAOF, i tried that
<rickspencer3> and stores those in a hash
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, oh.. yeah... humm
<rickspencer3> and then just make that hash globably accessible
<kenvandine> we need a way to update it if the password changes
<RAOF> I'm actually a bit surprised that works at all; libgnome-keyring is pretty aggressively thread-unsafe in my experience.
<rickspencer3> RAOF, it doesn't work at all
<kenvandine> RAOF, exactly
<kenvandine> it threadlocks
<rickspencer3> hmm
<rickspencer3> if the password changes
<kenvandine> although, this example works fine
<RAOF> Perhaps I should rephrase.  âI'm surprised it doesn't assert() out immediatelyâ
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, is there a way to make the password change other than with the gui?
<kenvandine> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/408313/
<kenvandine> no
<kenvandine> so we could make it call a method
<rickspencer3> so the gui could update the hash
<rickspencer3> so we'd add to the startup time the time it takes to read all the passwords from the key ring
<rickspencer3> but that should be minimal
<kenvandine> it is fast
<rickspencer3> and then we just have the passwords hanging around in memory
<rickspencer3> and I guess put a semiphore around it when anyone tries to read or write it
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, would it be worth it to send Nafai exploring down this path tomorrow?
<kenvandine> maybe, let him try to fix it first
<rickspencer3> ok
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, please don't let me catch you online tomorrow!
<kenvandine> :)
<kenvandine> i shouldn't be
<rickspencer3> I think a break will help you be more productive
<kenvandine> i am going to see tigers with the kids
<rickspencer3> just, for the love of god, stay away form gwibber
<rickspencer3> for one day
<rickspencer3> that should be good
<rickspencer3> will help your mind reset priorities ;)
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, but you want Nafai to try making the call to the keyring work in some way
<RAOF> It looks like maybe seahorse triggers a similar bug?
<rickspencer3> some magic flag
<kenvandine> RAOF, oh?
<rickspencer3> and if that doesn't work, we'll work around it
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, right
<kenvandine> i think the pool stuff is generally useful, and it would be sad if we can't limit the amount of context it shares
<RAOF> Open up a keyring, and inspect any of the keys contained therein.  Seahorse will consume 100% of a core until you stop looking at that key.
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, if the keyring is not threadsafe, it's not threadsafe
<kenvandine> yeah
<rickspencer3> that fundamental problem is out of scope for Lucid of course
<kenvandine> RAOF, wow... your right
<rickspencer3> it's kinda nutty really
<rickspencer3> hmm
<rickspencer3> so there are probably a ton of little bugs like this scattered around the desktop
<rickspencer3> gotta run
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, http://imgur.com/W8nt8
<rickspencer3> :)
<rickspencer3> bye bye
<kenvandine> hit and run from rick
<kenvandine> :)
<TheMuso> crimsun: the ideapad U150 and U350 use the same SSID, hense whyusers have a working headphone jack switch.
<pitti> Good morning
<RAOF> Good morning pitti
<pitti> rickspencer3: turn off autosync> we don't start gwibber by default, so I don't think it's a beta-2 issue
<pitti> hey RAOF, how are you today?
<kenvandine> pitti, if you have accounts configured, we do
<kenvandine> and good morning :)
<pitti> hello kenvandine
<pitti> kenvandine: yes, but you don't have accounts in a fresh install
<kenvandine> yup
<pitti> and for upgrades we can just as well fix it right after beta-2 release
<kenvandine> and one way or another we will have a fix for it ready right after beta-2 :)_
<pitti> 'zactly
<crimsun> TheMuso: yes, hence why I suggested looking at codec SSID (not PCI SSID) -- with the caveat that I don't know the codec SSID for the original hw that merged the ideapad model & quirk
<RAOF> pitti: I'm good.  Went to see Micmacs last night, which was fun, and I'm very nearly in sync with non-daylight-savings now :)
<pitti> Micmacs?
<pitti> a movie?
<pitti> micro machines?
<RAOF> A movie :)
<RAOF> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1149361/
<TheMuso> crimsun: oh right, gotcha now.
<RAOF> Although micro machines could also be cool!
<TheMuso> crimsun: Ah I still have an alsa-info dump from having access to the U350 back in Feb, so have the Codec subsystem ID. I guess that helps some.
<didrocks> good morning
<seb128> hello there
 * pitti waves to the French mafia
<didrocks> hey seb128, pitti
<seb128> lut didrocks, pitti
<didrocks> seb128: no, it wasn't so late, it was just late for en "early evening" :)
<didrocks> that said, how are you guys?
<pitti> I'm great, thanks!
<pitti> you too?
<seb128> I'm great too
<didrocks> yeah, my legs are better. I can almost walk normally but won't run :)
<seb128> lol
<seb128> see, sport is good for you
<seb128> you wouldn't have all those troubles after some exercice if you were doing regular sport :p
<didrocks> seb128: oh, I'm sure it is. It's just more than 15 hours of steps in 2 days isn't for me :)
<robert_ancell> seb128, hey, am I able to take git patches for gcalctool and apply them to the Lucid version? (i.e. is that considered a stable update exempt from a freeze break?)
<seb128> hey robert_ancell, yes
<seb128> robert_ancell, I was just thinking about you
<seb128> I didn't notice you were still online
<seb128> robert_ancell, not sure what was the logic behind dropping base conversion from gcalctool but that was not a nice move for users
<seb128> I keep getting complain about it
<seb128> it's annoying me too :p
<seb128> I've to find an another calculator to use now
<didrocks> seb128: how come you use base conversion?
 * seb128 slaps didrocks
<didrocks> ouch :)
<robert_ancell> seb128, yeah, I'm not going to hear the end of this one...  we can, revert to the older gcalctool for Lucid, you can use the PPA I made for Karmic, you can install the package manually from Karmic, or use another calculator (recommended qalculate, speedcrunch, galculator)
<seb128> robert_ancell, I think we will not change anything now
<robert_ancell> the good news is I spent easter doing the work I wanted to do this cycle and gcalctool master is now awesome
<seb128> it's just a shame to rewrite an useful tool to make it useless
<seb128> ok, there is some trolling there ;-)
<robert_ancell> it's one feature...
<seb128> but that's one of the things I use in a scientific calculator
<seb128> and gcalctool used to work great
<robert_ancell> the old version still exists
<seb128> well, one feature that lot of scientific people need
<robert_ancell> programmers
<seb128> right, programmers on computers, electronic, students
<robert_ancell> I would argue scientific people would more like the new features like polynomials
<seb128> let's be honest, people will judge on what is installed by default and laugh to us if we told them to get the old version from a ppa
<seb128> anyway just being curious but what was the rational behind dropping those options from gcalctool?
<seb128> so I know what to reply to hate emails I get
<seb128> we should also probably change the package maintainer info
<seb128> so you do get those users emails :p
<robert_ancell> sure, it's a shit release in a lot of respects.  Not sure what I should have done in hindsight, as i didn't get enough time to finish the features.  Perhaps we should have stuck with the older one from a distros perspective.
<seb128> yeah, we had an UDS session about things we wanted to stay away from this cycle
<seb128> ie rewrites etc
<seb128> gcalctool should maybe have been on the list
<robert_ancell> there were big internal changes that meant the old methods didn't work.  The changes will make the next version awesome, I didn't get time to reimplement the base functionality as I wanted
<robert_ancell> sure
<seb128> though it's only a calculator, not end of the world
<seb128> anyway
<robert_ancell> well, I'd support rolling it back if people thought that was appropriate
<seb128> not sure if you saw my reply before but backporting git changes if those are bug fixes is fine
<seb128> I keep doing that
<seb128> since our schedule will be tight and we will not get GNOME 2.30.1 I think this cycle
<seb128> or in SRU updates after lucid
<robert_ancell> ok, I have to go, one more question.  I want to release simple-scan 1.0 (a few minor bugfixes).  Should I do that now or wait until after B2 (I've been looking out for serious bugs, there don't seem to be any in the last release)
<seb128> as you want
<seb128> it will be queue until after beta2
<seb128> so upload at any time between now and freeze next week
<robert_ancell> seb128, ok, will wait until after B2 in case someone notices something
<seb128> seems good
<seb128> rolling back gcalctool, I don't know
<seb128> I don't think it's required, but I don't use it a lot
<seb128> I started it a week ago or so to do an hex to dec conversion
<robert_ancell> I think it would be a good idea as this is a LTS.
<robert_ancell> my 2c
<seb128> which failed because I didn't find how to do it with the new version
<seb128> rolling back?
<robert_ancell> yes
<seb128> ok, I will discuss it with other people and let you know
<seb128> enjoy your evening!
<seb128> pitti, ^
<robert_ancell> there are enough people complaining (they often miss other major problems in the past, it's only this feature they've noticed!!)
<robert_ancell> bye
<pitti> seb128: rolling back gcalctool? no strong opinion either way, it's a "leaf" package and thus rolling it back doesn't break anything else
<seb128> pitti, ok
<pitti> the karmic one was fine
<seb128> robert_ancell as an upstream seems to be in favor of rolling back
<pitti> and yes, I'm missing dec<->hex<->oct conversion, too, but by now I got used to just using python for that
<seb128> I will play with both today
<cassidy> seb128, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/empathy/+bug/556977 has been linked on a bug report but I don't have rights to see it. Can you make it public please?
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: list index out of range (https://launchpad.net/bugs/556977)
<seb128> I don't have right to see it either
<seb128> is that a crash which has not been retraced yet?
<cassidy> maybe, it's a crash according the upstream report
<seb128> *shrug*
<seb128> i386 retracing backlog is 630 bugs now
 * pitti wishes LP would be a bit more stable these days
<seb128> cassidy, it might take a while before getting this one retraced
<cassidy> seb128, that's a fine, I think I got the reason of the crash
<seb128> cool
<seb128> pitti, we should probably turn apport off by default now if we didn't yet
<pitti> seb128: hm, we usually do after RC, but we can also do it earlier
<seb128> well I'm just not sure how useful it is
<seb128> we have a backlog of over 800 crashes not retraced
<seb128> new one will probably show up after lucid as "can't be retraced due to outdated versions" now
<mvo> dpm: I need to update some string in update-manager to fix 10.04 -> 10.04 LTS
<mvo> dpm: now I wanted to just to that manually (update, unfuzzy)
<mvo> dpm: but for some odd reason I get additional fuzzy strings from a fresh launchpad export
<mvo> dpm: when running intltool-update -g update-manager -p and intltool-update -d -g update-manager
<mvo> dpm: any hints? is there a know issue here?
<dpm> hi mvo, sorry, I got disconnected. The last thing I got was: "dpm: when running intltool-update -g update-manager -p and intltool-update -d -g update-manager"
<dpm> mvo, what's the branch you are testing? And what's the link to the LP export? I can try myself I can see what could be wrong
<dpm> _if I can see_, I meant
<mvo> dpm: cool, thanks. I use "lp:update-manager" and the export from the lucid source package
<mvo> dpm: https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/update-manager
<dpm> mvo, yeah, but when you requested the export of the translations, you got a link to the tarball. Could you give me the link, so that I can use that and don't have to request a new export?
<mvo> dpm: sure http://launchpadlibrarian.net/43330966/launchpad-export.tar.gz
<dpm> mvo, cool, thanks. Let me see if I can see anything unusual
<mvo> dpm: german may be a good example language, it should be 100%
<chrisccoulson> hello everyone
<seb128> hey chris
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hey seb128, how are you?
<seb128> good! you?
<chrisccoulson> yeah, not bad thanks
<dpm> mvo, I've done the following: used lp:update-manager, downloading the translations tarball from the link you gave me, put the update-manager-de.po file (after renaming it to de.po) in the po folder, run 'intltool-update -g update-manager' and then 'intltool-update de'. I can only see 3 fuzzies, which are the ones in which you changed LTS -> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/410485/
<dpm> which other fuzzies do you get?
<seb128> oh, robert_ancell is back
<seb128> robert_ancell, quick one for you too
<robert_ancell> seb128, hey
<seb128> robert_ancell, did you see the bug about gnome-games lpi being broken?
<robert_ancell> seb128, no
<seb128> robert_ancell, the changes need to be updated to reflect the binaries split you did
<robert_ancell> seb128, oh, right.  I can fix that
<seb128> cool, thanks
<robert_ancell> bug #?
<seb128> I was not sure if you were reading the gnome-games bug emails or not
<robert_ancell> seb128, I get so many email I miss a lot
<robert_ancell> seb128, pitti, am planning to look at bug 532531 tommorrow.  Been busy with oem stuff, but feel free to have a look if you guys have spare time (which I'm assuming you don't)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 532531 in gdm "No way to come back if fast user switcher is activated accidentally" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/532531
<seb128> robert_ancell, not sure about the number now, it's on the most recent bugs in the buglist
<seb128> robert_ancell, ok good
<robert_ancell> seb128, pitti, I see you're both fine with a gcalctool rollback - what version number do I give it to make it work in Lucid?
<seb128> I don't like epochs
<seb128> I would say current.lucid.is.real.version
<seb128> ie 2.29.is.2.28
<seb128> or whatever the versions are
<robert_ancell> (I think on the balance it is worth rolling back as the new version will annoy some users+help others whereas keeping the old one will be a neutral change)
<seb128> I think we didn't get too many complain about gcalctool in karmic
<seb128> so let's stay on this version for lucid
<seb128> and rock with the new code for next cycle
<robert_ancell> seb128, yeah, I figured it would be like that but I wasn't sure of a good version number
<seb128> the new.is.old is what we used for similar cases recently
<seb128> not really nice but the other option is an epoch, ie 1:2.28
<robert_ancell> seb128, yeah I hope there aren't too many bugs in the karmic one as the codebase is very brittle.  I finally got GObjects all through the new one - much nicer!
<seb128> which is nicer but means we can't sync on Debian again later
<robert_ancell> epochs are only useful for permanent changes though - we will be in sync for Lucid+1
<seb128> right
<robert_ancell> ok, will upload it now
<seb128> thanks
<mvo> dpm: thanks, I try it again, maybe before I did something (unreleated) wrong
 * seb128 grrrs at pitti and bzr
<seb128> nautilus bzr changed format and bzr pull doesn't work
<robert_ancell> seb128, how is lucid going for you at the moment?
<seb128> robert_ancell, quite good, I think it will be a solid version
<seb128> I'm a bit concerned about the number of crash bugs we received recently
<seb128> but it might just be because the retracers were broken and are catching up
<seb128> so lot of crashers show up now
<seb128> there is still quite some bug fixing to do though
<seb128> robert_ancell, what do you think about it?
<robert_ancell> seb128, I get some weird behaviour with some subsystem not working that stops the sound and power operations from working.  Can't work out what it is, but guessing it's not widespread.  I have some strange packages on my system though
<seb128> robert_ancell, when do you finish oem officially btw?
<robert_ancell> seb128, I think it's at UDS?
<seb128> k
<seb128> what I though but I was not sure
<pitti> seb128: bzr upgrade?
<robert_ancell> I need to check too
<seb128> pitti, dunno, it said something about doing that for me but failed at it
<seb128> I rm -r ubuntu and bzr get it again now
<pitti> strange
<seb128> those format changes are so annoying
<seb128> it's ridiculous
<seb128> "This may take some time. Upgrade the repositories to the same format for better performance.
<seb128> bzr: ERROR: KnitPackRepository('file:///home/seb128/boulot/package/nautilus/ubuntu/.bzr/repository/')
<seb128> is not compatible with"
<seb128> pitti, ^ that's the error I got
<seb128> "Doing on-the-fly conversion from RemoteRepositoryFormat(_network_name='Bazaar repository format 2a (needs bzr 1.16 or later)\n') to RepositoryFormatKnitPack1()."
<robert_ancell> seb128, yeah they annoy me too!
<didrocks> yeah, I don't get as well why it's upgrading and downgrading all the time for me as well :/
<didrocks> hey robert_ancell :)
<robert_ancell> didrocks, hey!
<dpm> mvo, ok, just let me know if I can help in any way
<robert_ancell> seb128, does it not upgrade from the LP page?
<seb128> robert_ancell, I did rm the dir and got a new checkout
<seb128> it's working now
<seb128> seems pitti did change the format in some way when he touched it
<mvo> dpm: many thanks, I re-run the full update, unfuzzy again and see how it goes
<seb128> and bzr pull didn't manage to deal with it
<seb128> a new checkout is working though
<seb128> go wonder
<dpm> ok
<mvo> dpm: there is no risk here, right? 9.10 -> 10.04 LTS should not be a problem in any langauge?
<robert_ancell> seb128, and bzr upgrade didn't work from your system?
<seb128> it's usually faster to checkout again than to try to understand the issue
<mvo> dpm: that the string does no longer make sense?
<mvo> dpm: because there is a different prefix used for 9 than 10 or something?
<seb128> robert_ancell, bzr pull did "upgrading" and failed at it with a "ERROR: KnitPackRepository is not compatible with"
<robert_ancell> seb128, as I understand it you need to  upgrade at the server and the local copy.  You upgrade the server side from LP and the client side by runing "bzr upgrade"
<seb128> next time I will try to run bzr upgrade manually
<seb128> bzr pull is supposed to do that for you which failed there
<seb128> but maybe bzr upgrade does something different and would have worked
<seb128> anyway issue solved with a new checkout
<robert_ancell> I think bzr pull just tries to translate the formats on the fly (and doesn't always work perfectly), bzr upgrade does the change permanently
<dpm> mvo, I can only think of people using different numbering systems, but I'd think translators tend to stick to the same translation as in English. Thus I'm not sure if it should be translatable. Perhaps it could be a variable in a next version of update-manager? I can ask translators to see if they translate the version string and see what they think
<pitti> seb128: oh, you didn't run bzr upgrade?
<seb128> pitti, no, bzr pull said "upgradign"
<pitti> seb128: bzr pull does not upgrade automatically; it claims to do in-place conversion, but that often fails
<seb128> which I though was "doing bzr upgrade for you"
<mvo> dpm: good point, I will make it a var in the next release
<pitti> it converts the individual commits to the other format
<seb128> I see
<seb128> good to know for next time
<dpm> ok
<dpm> mvo, another quick thing. While you are at it, perhaps you can manually correct this in de.po-> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/410488/ It just needs the \r\n removed (the \r makes msgmerge complain)
<mvo> dpm: sure, thanks
<mvo> dpm: done
<dpm> cool, thanks mvo!
<chrisccoulson> hey pitti
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> would you mind doing another archive removal for me if you get the chance?
<chrisccoulson> (bug 553686)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 553686 in kazehakase "Please remove kazehakase source and binaries from Lucid" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/553686
<pitti> didrocks: hm, I just installed current UNE; I don't see plymouth during boot
<didrocks> pitti: oh? let me try with today's image. I got it in my upgraded box
<pitti> I have plymouth{,-x11,-theme-ubuntu-log,-theme-ubuntu-tex} installed
<pitti> chrisccoulson: sure
<chrisccoulson> pitti - thanks
<chrisccoulson> pitti - we're turning off the "Report a bug" menu option in lpi aren't we?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: right
<chrisccoulson> i think we need to patch ubufox separately
<pitti> didrocks: oh, got it -- /var/crash/_sbin_plymouthd.0.crash :)
 * pitti -> more CD testing
<didrocks> oupsss, it's on the mini ?
<huats> morning everyone
<pitti> didrocks: yes
<pitti> didrocks: and synaptics crept back into the "system tools" menu
<pitti> seb128, mvo: ^ was that changed recently? or gnome-menus bug?
<robert_ancell> later all!
<seb128> bye robert_ancell
<pitti> bye robert_ancell
<huats> gn robert_ancell
<seb128> pitti, I would say changed recently
<seb128> but I don't know
<didrocks> pitti: same on the desktop, just noticed it
<seb128> it would be weird as a gnome-menus bug
<robert_ancell> huats, later (you should probably take gcalctool off me - I keep breaking things :) )
<pitti> Categories=PackageManager;GTK;System;Settings;
<pitti> ^ synaptic
<pitti> that's pretty much what computer-janitor has as well
<seb128> weird
<seb128> it's the same in the cache?
<pitti> seb128: yes
<seb128> k, so I don't know
<seb128> it's showing in system, admin there
<seb128> I didn't update for some days though
<seb128> but the category in the same
<didrocks> nothing in changelog related to thatâ¦
<pitti> seb128: what is the magic for this, actually?
<seb128> pitti, for what?
<pitti> /etc/xdg/menus/applications.menu says "<Category>System</Category> and not <Category>Settings</Category>
<pitti> i. e. it's not supposed to show this?
<seb128> right, it's supposed to be in system, admin
<seb128> it's correctly there with the same Categories on my box
<seb128> do you get the same bug without the cache?
<seb128> just to make sure it's not a cache thing
<pitti> seb128: I'm just trying that :)
<seb128> or in gmenu-simple-editor
<pitti> works without cache
<didrocks> <Category>Utility</Category> contains <Not><Category>System</Category></Not> which is normal as well :)
<seb128> what is the synaptic entry in the cache?
<didrocks> ok, side effect of the cache, how do you unactivate it pitti for testing? (just curious)
<seb128> can you pastebin it?
<pitti> and rebuilding the cache/restart panel, it comes back
<seb128> didrocks, delete the cache?
<didrocks> seb128: oh yes, it's true the cache isn't build at first loading
<seb128> didrocks, it's a trigger
<seb128> pitti, can  you pastebin your cache for this entry?
<pitti> http://paste.ubuntu.com/410499/
<seb128> seems about right
<seb128> it's not listed twice?
<pitti> seb128: ooh!
<pitti> [synaptic-kde]
<seb128> ah
<pitti> seb128: I think your recent change to add the "Hidden" entries to the cache also added the OnlyShowIn
<seb128> I did a typo
<seb128> it's fixed in unapproved
<pitti> ah, great
<seb128> I added ShowOnlyIn
<seb128> instead of OnlyShowIn
<seb128> which explains why it works there
<seb128> I've the fixed version
<didrocks> (I confirm, it's the synaptic-kde which is launched there)
 * pitti hugs seb128 for retroactive bug fixing
 * seb128 hugs pitti & didrocks
 * didrocks hugs seb128 & pitti
<pitti> didrocks: btw, there are plenty of bug reports for that plymouth crash already
<didrocks> pitti: ok, I'm still syncing the iso. I'll have a look if you think it's only UNE related
<pitti> didrocks: no, I don't think so; but 553745 has plenty of dupes
<pitti> bug 553745
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 553745 in plymouth "plymouthd crashed with SIGSEGV in ply_event_loop_process_pending_events()" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/553745
<didrocks> pitti: ok, in keybuck's hands so :)
<didrocks> seb128: I have OnlyShowIn=KDE; in synaptic-kde.desktop
<seb128> didrocks, right, cf backlog
<seb128> didrocks, the cache didn't list the OnlyShowIn due to a typo
<seb128> it's fixed in the queue but didn't get accepted yet
<didrocks> seb128: I don't have the typo version "ShowOnlyIn" but "OnlyShowIn" which is the right version, no? Or understand the contrary? (and I have the bug)
<seb128> didrocks, the typo is in the cache builder
<seb128> didrocks, the cache doesn't have the "OnlyShowIn"
<seb128> I listed "ShowOnlyIn" in the known keys to cache
<seb128> instead of "OnlyShowIn"
<didrocks> seb128: oh ok, I thought you was talking about the synaptic-kde.desktop file containing the typo. understood :)
<seb128> so the cache just doesn't list any "OnlyShowIn"
<didrocks> were*
<pitti> ok, so my three grievances with CD testing are all bug-ified
<didrocks> sure, I misunderstood where the typo was, hence my question :)
<seb128> it's all good!
<mvo> seb128: aha, all good while I was at lunch?
<seb128> yes
<mvo> cool
<baptistemm> heh, launchpad under maintenance again
<seb128> james_w, hey
<seb128> baptistemm, no it's not?
<james_w> hey seb128
<seb128> james_w, did you see the update on the pitivi fix you sponsored?
<seb128> there is a new comment and commit
<james_w> yeah
<james_w> I rejected it from UNAPPROVED
<james_w> I'll upload the fixed version today
<baptistemm> seb128, hmmm, I had a message when I logged in, perhaps some caching issue
<seb128> james_w, ok good, thanks
<james_w> sorry for not commenting, but I was just leaving
<baptistemm> james_w, ah, I have also a fix; mine is for bluez :)
<james_w> baptistemm: I saw
<james_w> I'll get to it after lunch
<baptistemm> no problemo, thanks a lot
<seb128> james_w, that's ok, I just noticed because they were discussing the bug on #pitivi
<james_w> ah
<james_w> ah they happy with the fix in that patch?
<james_w> the documentation states you shouldn't use the function
<seb128> james_w, they are unsure about it, they are looking for people to test if that fixes the issue or not
<chrisccoulson> pitti - is there a spec for disabling the "report a bug" menu items?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-bug-management
<chrisccoulson> pitti - thanks
<mvo> dpm: I unfuzzied now all the language that looked safe, I guess I still need to send a mail to the translators list as e.g. fi.po I did not dare to touch
<dpm> mvo, cool, thanks! Were there many languages which were not safe to unfuzzy?
<mvo> dpm: very few
<mvo> dpm: but some had postfixes like 10.04:en and I didn't feel like I can mug around with those (too dangerous)
 * dpm nods
<edsiper> seb128, ping
<seb128> edsiper, pong
<seb128> (but on phone)
<seb128> edsiper, I'm back
<edsiper> seb128, it was me (Eduardo Silva), i pinged you as i heard the girl in the line so i didn't knew if you were listening...
<edsiper> :)
<seb128> oh ok
<seb128> I didn't hear the girl there, the line just went silent
<seb128> I guess they had some routing issue or something
<edsiper> seb128, yeah, well it was fun, i thought that was another interviewer...
<seb128> pitti, http://cgit.freedesktop.org/media-player-info/commit/?id=8f2caea0c49e1b92f493230d717987aa7bf91096
<seb128> pitti, might be worth getting in lucid, it could fix those bugs we get about sansa devices
<seb128> pitti, not sure if that would fix the "don't get mounted" though
<pitti> seb128: I still have those in my mailbox, will look at them in the next days
<seb128> pitti, ok
<pitti> I'm off for some 1.5 hours for an appointment
<seb128> pitti, see you
<didrocks> see you pitti
<hearthrob> hello all
<hearthrob> nautilus fails with a segmentation fault when i try to use it as my user, but works with sudo
<hearthrob> anyone have any ideas?
<jpds> hearthrob: Sounds like a corrupt configuration file for your user.
<jpds> hearthrob: Try: strace -e open -f nautilus
<seb128> didrocks, btw no need to look at the seahorse crashers, I found what the issue is
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, I saw that in a comment from the bug report, sweet :)
<rickspencer3> seb128, pitti, Nafai, can we talk about gwibber in the next hour or so?
<rickspencer3> I dug into it quite a bit last night, I think we'll have to write some code to work around the issue
<hearthrob> thanks jpds
<hearthrob> it was trying to read a big file i guess... solved by deleting the file :)
<james_w> seb128: pitivi is back in the queue, let me know if you want me to pull it again
<seb128> rickspencer3, hey, ok
<seb128> james_w, ok, thanks
<rickspencer3> ccheney, ping
<rickspencer3> pitti, ?
<seb128> rickspencer3, he had to run for an appointment, he said he would be away 1.5 hours
<rickspencer3> ok
<seb128> rickspencer3, that was around 1.5 hours ago though so he should be back soon I guess
<rickspencer3> I think Nafai is not online yet
<rickspencer3> so maybe we can meet in this channel when everyone is back
<seb128> seems good
<rickspencer3> seb128, I see a way forward for gwibber, but there will be some work involved
<seb128> I'm around for the new 2 hours
<rickspencer3> I think Nafai can do it
<rickspencer3> seb128, sounds good
<seb128> next
<seb128> I guess pitti will be back before that and Nafai will be up too
<rickspencer3> btw, kenvandine is on vacation today
<seb128> ok
<rickspencer3> I told him *not* to get online ;)
<seb128> did you find what is wrong in gwibber?
<rickspencer3> yes, it's pretty obvious that the gnome key ring is not thread safe
<seb128> is that the multiprocessing sharing context issue chrisccoulson and others were mentioning yesterday?
<rickspencer3> anyone who calls it from a thread has issues
<seb128> right
<SEJeff> If pitivi gets effects like this: http://socghop.appspot.com/gsoc/student_proposal/show/google/gsoc2010/thibaultsaunier/t127060149183 would it be possible to have it as an update in Lucid?
<seb128> it's not only gnome-keyring
<seb128> seems using libdbus is an issue too
<rickspencer3> so, why, specifically that happens to the key ring, I don't know
<rickspencer3> could be
<SEJeff> Since that will be such a common user request, it seems to make sense if pitivi upstream agrees
<rickspencer3> so I know where in the code the problem is
<rickspencer3> and I know the pieces that don't work
<rickspencer3> but the keyring is a blackbox to me
<rickspencer3> and I see how other people solved the problem, and we can take a similar approach
<seb128> ok
<seb128> maybe wait for pitti and Nafai for details
<rickspencer3> yeah
<seb128> so you don't have to explain twice
<rickspencer3> that was just my long winded answer to "do you know what the problem is?" ;)
<seb128> hehe
<SEJeff> rickspencer3, Try sshing to > 50 boxes at once and watch the agent completely tank. Could it be due to seahorse storing the info in the keyring?
<seb128> SEJeff, seahorse has nothing to do with ssh
<pitti> rickspencer3: hello
<rickspencer3> hiya pitti
<SEJeff> seb128, Well the ssh-agent functionality of it was pulled into gnome-keyring since the previous 2 gnome releases
<rickspencer3> welcome back
<SEJeff> And it is horribly busted
<pitti> thanks
<rickspencer3> SEJeff, yes, I suspect that seahorse is quite impacted
<seb128> SEJeff, if you say so, I never got an issue with it
<pitti> rickspencer3: took a little longer, still played around with bug 556253
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 556253 in xorg-server "[2.6.32-19 regression] Does not check lid status any more, external screen powered off" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/556253
<rickspencer3> I also hear that there are other issues with seahorse and CPU pegging
<seb128> but I know there is some open bugs from people ssh lot of boxes at the same time
<seb128> rickspencer3, this ssh DoS issue is there since jaunty or so
<rickspencer3> RAOF mentioned a bug to me last night about just viewing keys in seahorse pegs a CPU
<seb128> ie nothing to do with the rewrite this cycle
<SEJeff> seb128, It is easy to reproduce. Download onall from here: https://code.ticketmaster.com/trac/browser/onall/trunk/onall
<SEJeff> then just do onall -f hostlist.txt "uptime" with a list of hosts around 50 or more
<seb128> SEJeff, ok, so maybe somebody who has the issue could upstream it where people writting the code would read about it
<seb128> SEJeff, we have no gnome-keyring hacker around
<SEJeff> After doing that a few times, it will kill the agent. ssh-agent from ssh works fine
<SEJeff> fair enough
<seb128> SEJeff, I understand the concern but discuss it there will not really bring you anywhere closer to get that one worked
<pitti> rickspencer3: is that really keyring itself, or dbus-glib?
<SEJeff> seb128, and I understand. I've got one of those bugs open in fact and will upstream it later today
 * pitti made really bad experiences with using python-dbus in threaded programs
<kklimonda> .b 9
<pitti> I discussed that with upstream even, and eventually gave up
<rickspencer3> pitti, I don't know
<rickspencer3> pitti, seb128 can we focus on gwibber for a moment
<ccheney> rickspencer3: hi
<rickspencer3> I have a few lines of discussion I can paste in
<rickspencer3> The situation:
<rickspencer3>  * gwibber uses mutliprocessing.pool in a deeply integrated way
<rickspencer3>  * calling gnome keyring from threads causes threadlocks
<rickspencer3>  * this effects other apps as well (seahorse, couch, etc...)
<rickspencer3> Possible solutions:
<rickspencer3>  * Store passwords in plain text in desktopcouch
<rickspencer3>  * Refactor gwibber so it doesn't use threads
<rickspencer3>  * Roll back the keyring package to a version that does not exhibit the bug
<rickspencer3>  * Try to tweak the existing code, looking for a magic formula to make calling the keyring from a thread not thread lock
<rickspencer3>  * Write a new module for gwibber that loads all of the passwords from the keyrings into memory at startup, outside a thread. Call this module from the threads. Figure out how to update these passwords in memory if the user changes passwords in the GUI.
<rickspencer3> obviously I think the last option is the best
<rickspencer3> thoughts?
<pitti> I think we can safely discard the "Store passwords in plain text in desktopcouch" option
<rickspencer3> agreed
<james_w>   * Figure out why calling gnome-keyring from different *processes* hangs, and if it's possible to stop that while using multiprocessing
<rickspencer3> james_w
<chrisccoulson> if seahorse exhibits the same beahviour, then it should be easier to debug it using seahorse (no python interpreter)
<rickspencer3> right
<rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, I don't know that it does exhibit the same behavior
<pitti> how about having just one thread doing the keyring calls?
<rickspencer3> pitti, that seems like a rather major refactoring
<chrisccoulson> rickspencer3, i've noticed seahorse uses a lot of CPU when viewing secrets
<pitti> but if several *processes* lock up, then it's not the dbus-glib threading issue
<pitti> back then, I had no problem at all with multiple processes
<rickspencer3> yes, it's processes, not threads, sorry
<pitti> ok, that's more difficult then, due to the IPC involved
<rickspencer3> pitti, gwibber uses mutliprocess.pool()
<rickspencer3> then map_async
<pitti> I'm not familiar with that :(
<seb128> neither am I
<rickspencer3> basically it's a library that makes it easy to spin off processes
<SEJeff> To get around python's GIL
<rickspencer3> but the point is that changing how the processes run would be major open heart surgery on gwibber
<pitti> but if the problem also affects seahorse, etc., then I don't understand why we are focussing on gwibber?
<james_w> pitti: it's processes, but they are not clean processes I believe, sharing too much state in this case.
<james_w> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/410145/ <- Ken's minimal reproducer
<pitti> hm, those do look like threads, though?
<rickspencer3> well, the way I read the code is
<seb128> chrisccoulson said they shared the same context though which was an issue
<rickspencer3> ryan creates a thread, which then spawns processes
<rickspencer3> so MapAsync is a thread, right?
<pitti> it doesn't call dbus.mainloop.glib.threads_init() ?
<pitti> does that even work?
<rickspencer3> and then in run it spawns processes through multiprocess.pool()
<rickspencer3> and perform_operation is within one of those processes
<rickspencer3> however, I could easily be reading it wrong
<pitti> what does the program do?
<pitti> if I start it, I see no output
<pitti> oh, now I do
<pitti> two lines of gibberish, then "Complate"
<james_w> yeah, there's a 10 second delay
<rickspencer3> pitti, the program prints your desktopcouch auoth secret
<pitti> repeated
<rickspencer3> forever
<rickspencer3> and your CPU pegs
<james_w> it spawns a thread to monitor the children
<james_w> that thread then spawns two processes, both of which request your desktopcouch oauth from gnome-keyring and print it
<james_w> when they are done the thread callbacks to the main object (but not main thread) to print the "Complate"
<pitti> and that does work with the karmic gnome-keyring?
<james_w> dunno, anyone have a karmic vm to hand?
<seb128> well gnome-keyring in karmic was not using dbus for communication
<seb128> I don't think that shows especially a gnome-keyring issue
<seb128> but the fact it uses dbus now shows gwibber design issues
<rickspencer3> seb128, right
<rickspencer3> but  a full refactor of gwibber is out of scope
<pitti> ah, that'd be it
<rickspencer3> for Lucid
<seb128> right
<seb128> I'm just saying why it doesn't happen in karmic keyring version
<rickspencer3> ok, noted
<pitti> seb128: woudl it even be an option to downgrade keyring? I mean, did the data format on disk change, or anything?
<seb128> I don't think anything changed no
<asac> in UNE ... do apps get the focus after starting by default?
<seb128> the libgnome-keyring api stayed compatible
<seb128> the storage too
<seb128> they just refactored gnome-keyring to be a dbus service now
<seb128> and libgnome-keyring to be a compatibility wrapper
<seb128> ie you can still use it the same way but it's meant to be deprecated for direct dbus calls in the next cycles
<pitti> asac: they should; WFM, anyway (they usually start fullscreen anyway)
<asac> yeah
<asac> we have this -efl bug --- which is why i wasnt sure
<asac> UNE is using metacity or compiz?
<ogra> metacity
<ogra> well ... maximus
<ogra> which is meta on crack :)
<pitti> seb128, rickspencer3: so could we add the old libngome-keyring/python-gnomekeyring as a parallel package for usage with gwibber?
<asac> ogra: thought maxiumus just sits outside and forces windows tec.
<rickspencer3> I was thinking that
<seb128> pitti, urg, no
<rickspencer3> and perhaps seahorse or others as needed
<pitti> it seems like a very large hammer, though
<ogra> asac, i alwqays thought it was a part of metacity
<seb128> pitti, libgnome-keyring gnome-keyring is one set
<pitti> I wouldn't like to roll back half of the desktop just for gwibbeer
<asac> ogra: source wise its a separate package
<seb128> pitti, the lib talked to the daemon via sockets in karmic which the new daemon doesn't have now
<asac> ogra: i think its also a separate process
<ogra> ah
<seb128> pitti, they communicate via dbus now which gnome-keyring in karmic didn't do
<LaserJock> ogra: I think asac's right
<pitti> seb128: ok, so we could only roll it back completely
<seb128> pitti, ie, storage and lib api are compatible but the communication lib, daemon changed
<LaserJock> you can just kill maximus for instance and have regular old metacity
<asac> didrocks: does -efl and non-efl use the same window manager? all metacity?
<rickspencer3> seb128, what is the cost of rolling back both parts?
<rickspencer3> lack of support going forward in the LTS?
<seb128> that
<LaserJock> asac: I think the only thing that changes is the launcher
<rickspencer3> seb128, why could we not install both parts in parallel for gwibber and perhaps other apps to use as needed?
<seb128> + I don't know if the storage format is really 100% compatible or if it would not handle downgrades
<asac> LaserJock: yeah. which is odd. we have bug complaining that apps dont get focus in -efl
<asac> after starting
<seb128> + we didn't test GNOME 2.30 on gnome-keyring 2.28
<seb128> not sure if that would raise another class of bugs in other softwares which have been made to work with the new one
<rickspencer3> right
<rickspencer3> so a full roll back is risky
<seb128> rickspencer3, you can't have 2 daemon running for the same thing
<rickspencer3> ok
<seb128> they would race to reply etc
<rickspencer3> understood
<seb128> and you can't have both version of the lib installed anyway since soname didn't change
<rickspencer3> well, I was thinking that we would change the name spaces or what not so they wouldn't race
<seb128> couldn't we just default to not use the keyring to store passwords?
<rickspencer3> if we installed in parallel
<LaserJock> asac: could perhaps the launcher be stealing focus or something?
<seb128> rickspencer3, I think it would be less risky and costy to refactor gwibber
<rickspencer3> seb128, that is an option, store the passwords in plain text in desktopcouch
<didrocks> asac: metacity is the default for non-efl. as -efl has no paticular -settings package, it should be distribution default, ie compiz
<rickspencer3> but kees nacked that
<asac> didrocks: ah.
<rickspencer3> pitti, I agree with seb128
<pitti> potential instability of other parts of the desktop, which we just tested against the new g-k
<pitti> seb128, james_w: could it be possible to hack python-gnome-keyring to serialize the calls, with a mutex?
<pitti> ^ yes, quite
<pitti> rickspencer3: I veto that as well
<asac> didrocks: but if there is no 3d compiz falls back to meta on its own?
<didrocks> asac: normally yes
<rickspencer3> seb128, pitti what would you think of having Nafai start working on:
<rickspencer3> 1. batch up all the calls to gnome-keyring in gwibber at startup in an non-threaded way
<seb128> pitti, serialize, dunno
<asac> didrocks: how much work would it be to make -efl do the right thing wrt settings etc.?
<asac> this seems to come back regularly, so i wonder if we should just fix that
<rickspencer3> 2. replace the 3 or 4 places that gwibber calls gnome keyring in threads to get the stored passwords there
<rickspencer3> ?
<rickspencer3> this seems like "not rocket science" programming
<seb128> one other option we didn't try would be to talk to gnome-keyring daemon directly
<didrocks> asac: not that much, need a new -settings package, NEWed it, and setting the right parameter
<rickspencer3> seb128, interesting
<didrocks> asac: can work on that tomorrow (as it's too late for beta2 in any case)
<rickspencer3> you can do this in python ok?
<seb128> ie using direct dbus calls to the daemon
<james_w> pitti: that could work
<seb128> it's only dbus...
<asac> didrocks: is there a way we can easily test if that would fix our focus thing?
<seb128> you can do dbus calls in python yes
<pitti> rickspencer3: speaking d-bus in python is dead easy
<rickspencer3> right
<asac> didrocks: like putting some file somewhere?
<pitti> but as I said, using python-dbus has tons of threading problems as well
<rickspencer3> just use the d-bus library and replace those calls
<pitti> threads and dbus just don't mix, sorry
<seb128> I'm not sure the server has methods for what we need or not, I've not looked to the dbus interface
<rickspencer3> pitti, right, but it seems worth a shot
<pitti> rickspencer3: I think your "batching in the main thread" would be the safest option
<pitti> rickspencer3: I think we should modify the reproducer for the various possibilities that we have
<rickspencer3> right, but hacking the d-bus api directly would take like 30 minutes to try
<pitti> rickspencer3: i. e. (1) direct d-bus), (2) use mutexes to isolate calls
<seb128> well pitti seems to say dbus will not like that by experience
<pitti> rickspencer3: the reproducer script is nice because it's much faster to hack on than gwibber
<didrocks> asac: for testing, you can copy every files (but netbook-launcher) containing "une" in the path and replace them with "une-efl" (/etc/xdg-efl mostly and gconf related stuff) from the ubuntu-netbook-default-settings package
<rickspencer3> (3) batch the "get_password" calls before the threads start
<rickspencer3> pitti, yup
<didrocks> asac: then, start the UNE 2D session
<pitti> rickspencer3: right, forgot that
<rickspencer3> ok, who wants to try (1)?
<asac> gwibber still uses multithreading? thought that was fixed this cycle ;)
<asac> (ignore me)
<rickspencer3> asac, it doesn't use multithreading, it uses multithreads which spawn multiple parallel processes
<james_w> could using the async keyring calls be worth a look too?
<pitti> rickspencer3: so, assuming that (1), (2), or (3) works, these are by far my most preferred solutions
<pitti> rickspencer3: anythign else is crackful or way too risky IMHO
<seb128> +1
<rickspencer3> much agreed
<pitti> james_w: async d-bus calls, you mean?
<rickspencer3> I think (3) is a good fallback
<james_w> the sync ones share context and block on it apparently, but doing this ourselves could work around that
<rickspencer3> that's the approach that other apps took to work around this
<james_w> pitti: or just the ones wrapped by libgnome-keyring. It currently calls _sync versions
<pitti> james_w: I'm not that fancy rewriting libgnome-keyring, TBH
<pitti> we don't know which other apps it can affect, or what we screw up
<james_w> pitti: it already has theM!
<pitti> oh!
<pitti> james_w: yes, definitively
<Damascene> hello, what is the way to accept some package to be installed for rtl language?
<Damascene> like mlterm for rtl support in terminal?
<rickspencer3> I didn't quite track that, so james_w is going to try (2)?
<Damascene> https://bugs.launchpad.net/vte/+bug/263822/
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 263822 in vte "RTL (right to left) support in terminal (BiDi)" [Low,Triaged]
<pitti> rickspencer3: I think james_w's proposal is quite the opposite of (2) .. it makes them "more" async :)
<rickspencer3> oh
<seb128> I think james_w's suggestion is what I would try first there
<rickspencer3> you mean make the keyring asynchronous so threads don't block when they call into it
<rickspencer3> ?
<Nafai> I'm here
<rickspencer3> that seems rather bold
<rickspencer3> Hi Nafai we are discussing how to solve the problem with gwibber, please read the scroll back
<pitti> I remember having had problems with that, too
<seb128> rickspencer3, libgnome-keyring has asyncs calls
<Nafai> ok
<seb128> you don't have to make those, just to use those
<pitti> i. e. sync calls which block the mainloop from continuing, which is required to finish the call, etc.
<rickspencer3> seb128, sorry to be dense ... is the suggestion to use async calls within gwibber?
<pitti> hey Nafai
<seb128> rickspencer3, I think so yes
<pitti> rickspencer3: yes
<rickspencer3> hmmmm
<seb128> <james_w> the sync ones share context and block on it apparently, but doing this ourselves could work around that
<rickspencer3> that seems rather easy, yes
<seb128> I would start by trying that
<rickspencer3> at least worth a try in the repro script
<rickspencer3> so (4) replace value = gnomekeyring.find_items_sync() with find_items_asynch()
<james_w> nope, that seems to use a lot of CPU as well
<seb128> :-(
<rickspencer3> no easy answers
<pitti> I'll try mutexes now
<pitti> i. e. (2)
<james_w> is it possible that libgnome-keying just uses a lot of CPU time?
<seb128> james_w, no
<seb128> empathy has no cpu use issue
<seb128> neither does evolution
<rickspencer3> james_w, it pegs one core forever
<james_w> right
<james_w> just checking :-)
<seb128> rickspencer3, the question was rather to know if gnome-keyring is just buggy and does that whatever you do
<seb128> which it's not the case
<seb128> since we have other desktop components using it without issues
<chrisccoulson> james_w - so, my theory from yesterday is probably not the issue then (if you tried with an async call)
<rickspencer3> seb128, well, not actually true
<rickspencer3> desktopcouch had the same issue
<chrisccoulson> but using the async call from a separate thread has it's own issues
<rickspencer3> so they worked around it
<seb128> rickspencer3, the all use multiprocessing though?
<rickspencer3> right
<chrisccoulson> (it adds an event to the default context, so the callback you pass to the async call will execute in the main process)
<seb128> so it means gnome-keyring used in that context has issues
<rickspencer3> well, tbh, I don't know for certain if it was "processes" verses "threads"
<seb128> it doesn't mean gnome-keyring is buggy
<rickspencer3> seb128, right
<rickspencer3> correct
<rickspencer3> I think these are just incompatibilities
<seb128> well it's just safe to be used in those contexts
<seb128> which apparently dbus is not either
<rickspencer3> anyway Nafai done reading scrollback?
<Nafai> yeah
<rickspencer3> ok
<rickspencer3> so ...
<pitti> ok, mutexes don't help either
<rickspencer3> I think in gwibber we'll end up with:
<rickspencer3> (3) batch the "get_password" calls before the threads start
<rickspencer3> this will mean I will ask you to write some code for this
<Nafai> ok
<Nafai> that does seem to be the best solution for the time which we have
<rickspencer3> Nafai, do you have the bandwidth to focus on this 100% today?
<rickspencer3> I'd like to see a branch that we can start testing this tomorrow
<pitti> strace shows that it's constantly poll()ing
<pitti> which returns with "I have data"
<pitti> but it doesn't seem to fetch it
<Nafai> I could, I just need to make sure I pass what I've seen with the bug I'm looking at off to the dx guys since it seems to be in the app indicator code itself
<pitti> james_w, rickspencer3, seb128: no luck with mutexes, sorry
<rickspencer3> yeah
<rickspencer3> pitti, I believe we are retreading ground that kenvandine has already been over
<seb128> Nafai, the fallback icon bug is a minor one
<seb128> it's only fallback for people not using indicators
<Nafai> yeah
<rickspencer3> (not that we shouldn't analyze it)
<seb128> you can just ignore it for lucid
<Nafai> ok
<pitti> in the end, I bet it's the old dbus-glib problem
<pitti> you have one main loop, and a different thread which wants the data
<rickspencer3> Nafai, pitti, seb128, james_w, fwi, this worked fine: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/410585/
<rickspencer3> that's the (3) approach
<pitti> so I think having the main thread collect the account passwords and store them in mlock()ed memory will work best
<seb128> +1
<pitti> rickspencer3: right
<rickspencer3> I propose we focus today on getting gwibber reading the passwords working without issue
<pitti> rickspencer3: I think that'd be the only rock solid an unintrusive (on a global desktop level) solution
<rickspencer3> then tomorrow figure out what to do when users change the passwords
<pitti> but nevertheless it was interesting to check the alternatives
<rickspencer3> pitti, agreed
<rickspencer3> the analysis was useful
<rickspencer3> and not too time consuming
<pitti> rickspencer3: at worst they'd have to restart gwibber?
<rickspencer3> exactly
<rickspencer3> well, gwibber-service, but yeah
<pitti> oh, rather, restart gwibber if the account which they are already logged in to disconnects
<rickspencer3> pitti, seb128, Nafai, james_w - are we all agreed that Nafai should start down path (3) today?
<pitti> changing passwords wouldn't disconnect running clients, I suppose?
<pitti> rickspencer3: +1
<seb128> +1
<Nafai> +1 :)
<pitti> the dbus-glib threading problem is known upstream for years
<pitti> I don't think we'll find a solid solution within days
<rickspencer3> pitti, right, all the easy answers have been tried
<Nafai> I should work off of gwibber trunk, right?
<rickspencer3> this seems SMOP
<pitti> Nafai: Qapla'!
<Nafai> :)
<Nafai> pitti: I admit it's been a while since I've done a lot of C, so I'm not familiar with mlock(); is this available from Python?
<pitti> Nafai: hm, doesn't seem so :(
<pitti> Nafai: I propose you write a stub function mlock() which does nothing
<pitti> Nafai: and then we can try and write somethign using ctypes
<Nafai> ok, sounds good
 * Nafai dives in
<didrocks> rickspencer3: thanks for winpdb hints, it's really a time saver (even regarding to pdb) :)
<rickspencer3> didrocks, nice
<Nafai> yay for quickly debug :)
<didrocks> :)
<didrocks> (it's more "debugging quickly" now TBH :))
<didrocks> and "$ quickly debug quickly" isn't automated :)
<seb128> I'm out for some testing, sport and then dinner
<seb128> see you later
<Nafai> out for lunch and a rest and then back to the gwibber fixes
<james_w> I'm not convinced we are looking at the right cause for the keyring problem
<james_w> you don't need multiple processes to trigger it
<james_w> running with Pool(1) (which should give a single process in the pool) shows the issue
<james_w> and from the moment the child writes the secret out until the parent kicks of the new process the parent is busy looping, polling a couple of fds that I think communicate with the child
<james_w> I realise that desktopcouch had the same symptoms, but it's possible we are looking at two different causes
<james_w> however, what is stopping me from declaring it to be unrelated to the keyring is that I can't reproduce with the child just doing a sleep
<james_w> which leads me to believe that libgnome-keyring is stopping the child from exiting cleanly somehow
<rickspencer3> james_w, I don't think there is any doubt that we are focused on a workaround at this point
<rickspencer3> but we are too close to release to not have a workr around in place
<rickspencer3> and too close to release to start mucking with libgnome keyring internals
<rickspencer3> but knowing the root cause would be a dramatic improvement in our state of affairs
<james_w> but yes, it appears that chriscoulson is correct. The two processes share a GMainContext, and so share the pipe that they use when you init threads. When the child process exits it obviously leaves the context in an invalid state, because it just continually wakes, leading to the high cpu usage.
<james_w> if you don't call g_thread_init() then you don't get the pipe or the helper thread that polls it, so you don't get the issue as Ken found (but it's not the right answer)
<james_w> making them real processes, rather than the multiprocessing ones would fix that, but the gwibber tasks look too dynamic to make that easy enough to do
<rickspencer3> james_w, do you think that is a reasonable refactoring to do in 10.10?
<james_w> It depends how Ryan wants to play it
<rickspencer3> or is it even worth investing some time right now to see if that will work
<rickspencer3> in 10.04, I mean
<rickspencer3> ?
<james_w> oh
<james_w> maybe, I haven't dug in to the code sufficiently to see how much work would be required
<rickspencer3> one thing about Ryan's code is that it is pretty centralized
<rickspencer3> if you look in dispatcher.py, there is a MapAsync class that does all the work
<james_w> yeah
<james_w> it's the operations that I didn't research though
<rickspencer3> mmm
<rickspencer3> yeah, I didn't find that easy to understand
<rickspencer3> in other words, I didn't understand that part ;)
<james_w> I'm still looking at multiprocessing though
<james_w> I don't understand how it is sharing so much state
<rickspencer3> break time for me
<rickspencer3> bbl
<james_w> hmm, multiprocessing just does a single fork, meaning that the children will inherit the open fds of the parent, including this thread fd, that could be the reason
<baptistemm_> heya
<james_w> there we go, a real minimal test case: http://paste.ubuntu.com/410667/
<james_w> no keyring, no threads, just threads_init(), multiprocessing and unclosed fds
<james_w> so, a proper fix would have the called functions create a new GMainContext and use that, but I don't think that many things support that
<james_w> and I doubt that g_main_context_push_thread_default is supported enough to be a substitute
<james_w> and it seems you can't call it from python anyway
<james_w> right, enough of that, time for dinner
<mvo> is it just me does LP has a bad day today? oops, oops, oops
<baptistemm_> mvo, yeah, ...
<maxb> I'm not sure if there's a better channel for NetworkManager questions, so I'll ask here.
<maxb> Is there any way for a program to tell NetworkManager to use a different DNS server?
<chrisccoulson> does anybody use a B+W laser printer at home with Ubuntu? (and could recommend one that works reliably)
 * pitti has used a Samsung ML-1610 for some years, with quite good results
<seb128> not me
<chrisccoulson> pitti - thanks, i'll look at one of those
<soren> chrisccoulson: Does it have to be b/W?
<chrisccoulson> heh, i bet hardly anyone uses black and white printers now ;)
<chrisccoulson> soren - it doesn't have to be b/w
<soren> chrisccoulson: I'm quite happy with my Konica Minolta Magicolor 2530 DL.
<chrisccoulson> but it should be relatively low-cost to maintain (I have a photo printer, but the ink cartridges for that are incredibly expensive, and it's no good for printing lots of pages)
<chrisccoulson> soren - thanks
<soren> chrisccoulson: It's served me quite well for.. hmm... 4 years now, I think.
<soren> chrisccoulson: Not too expensive, and they actually went through the trouble of writing linux drivers for it.
<chrisccoulson> excellent, that sounds good
<soren> chrisccoulson: (which suck, but there are other ones (not developed by Konica) that work well)
<chrisccoulson> the LEXMARK X264dn looks quite nice actually (and it's available in a store a couple of miles away from me)
<chrisccoulson> it does scanning too :)
<seb128> http://paste.ubuntu.com/410710/
<seb128> does it look like a libusb or libmtp bug?
<seb128> libusb I guess
<seb128> I never know how to read the 2 parts in valgrind logs
<seb128> the second one is the allocation and the first one the error?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, that's how interpret it too
<chrisccoulson> i think that looks like a libusb bug
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> pitti, seems you have an account on the libusb bug tracker?
<fta> xchat still crashing on exit because of the indicator thing (bug 549972)
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: list index out of range (https://launchpad.net/bugs/549972)
<seb128> fta, you are welcome to send a patch for the issue or to not use the indicator
<fta> ok, i will disable it then :(
<rickspencer3> james_w, still around?
<james_w> yup
<rickspencer3> Nafai, ?
<rickspencer3> ok, so I just changed dispatcher.py
<Nafai> ok
<rickspencer3> I made MapAsync not be a thread
<Nafai> did that fix it?
<rickspencer3> maybe
<rickspencer3> wait, prolly not
<rickspencer3> hold on
<rickspencer3> dammit
<rickspencer3> it survived several refreshes
<rickspencer3> but on like the fourth one it pegged again
<rickspencer3> never min
<rickspencer3> d
 * rickspencer3 cries a little
<Nafai> :(
<james_w> rickspencer3: did you see my reproducer?
<rickspencer3> is it the one that we were using this morning?
<rickspencer3> if so, then yes
<james_w> no
<rickspencer3> oh
<james_w> <james_w> there we go, a real minimal test case: http://paste.ubuntu.com/410667/
<james_w> <james_w> no keyring, no threads, just threads_init(), multiprocessing and unclosed fds
<rickspencer3> interesting
<james_w> I'm pretty sure that's equivalent
<james_w> I'll try putting in a callback or something in the child in a minute
<rickspencer3> wait
<rickspencer3> so it occurs to me then
<rickspencer3> interesting
<rickspencer3> so in ken's reproducer
<rickspencer3> if I make MapAsync not be a thread
<rickspencer3> and delete threads.init()
<rickspencer3> it doesn't peg
<rickspencer3> let me try a few times
<james_w> rickspencer3: threads_init is one of the critical parts of the issue
<james_w> Ken found that it stopped it hanging the other day
<rickspencer3> james_w, isn;'t that because MapAsync is a thread?
<rickspencer3> so now if MapAsync is not a thread, why init threading at all?
<james_w> but it's broken, so not a viable solution or workaround
<james_w> well, yeah, I said minimal reproducer, not sensible one :-)
<james_w> but you aren't going to get very far pulling the threads out of gwibber I fear
<rickspencer3> how many threads are there in gwibber?
<rickspencer3> let me look
<james_w> well, one for every MapAsync
<rickspencer3> right
<james_w> note that the implementation in the new reproducer *blocks the main thread*
<rickspencer3> but I made MapAsync *Not* a thread
<rickspencer3> it's still pegging though
<james_w> and still had the timeouts?
<james_w> meaning you made it not a thread, keeping the behaviour that allows you to have timeouts, and not blocking the main thread?
<rickspencer3> Dispatcher is itself a thread :(
<james_w> if so, then that's a fine way to proceed, but I don't see how to do that without major surgery
<rickspencer3> james_w, all the thread does is spawn processes
<rickspencer3> I don't even know what value have MapAsync a thread brings
<rickspencer3> I guess it brings a bit more parallelism
<james_w> it allows you to timeout the child processes
<rickspencer3> but dispatcher is itself a thread
<rickspencer3> making dispatcher not a thread seems a bit more invovled
<james_w> right, so it sounds like removing threads from gwibber is going to be difficult
<rickspencer3> well, dispatcher is the only other thread
<james_w> we could make it a subprocess
<rickspencer3> note that we shouldn't stop Nafai down his path
<Nafai> ok, good
<Nafai> cause I'm still working on that path
<rickspencer3> Nafai, ignore this conversation and get your merge proposal ready ;)
 * Nafai nods
<rickspencer3> james_w, the gui is also threaded
<james_w> there's gwibber/microblog/util/couch.py:class Monitor(gobject.GObject, threading.Thread):
<rickspencer3> do you think that will be an issue?
<rickspencer3> didn't see that one
<james_w> if there is more than one thread in the gwibber-service process then you have to call gobject.threads_init()
<rickspencer3> the gui is not in gwibber-service
<james_w> if you call the function and then use gobject based stuff with multiprocessing you get the bug
<james_w> whichever process has the hang
<james_w> the high CPU I mean
<rickspencer3> that's gwibber-service
<rickspencer3> so would it be feasible to turn dispatcher and monitor from threads into processes?
<rickspencer3> I've worked with threads and time outs, but not processes
<james_w> possible, yes
<james_w> I assume
<james_w> realistic, maybe not
<AnAnt> Hello, what has happened to guile-gnome2-* packages ?
<james_w> what does gwibber-service do? It's the bit you call to send messages etc?
<rickspencer3> yah
<rickspencer3> well sends and receives messages
<rickspencer3> stuffs them into desktopcouch
<rickspencer3> rips a notification too, I think
<james_w> right
<james_w> so, Dispatcher is a thread, I'm not sure it has to be yet
<rickspencer3> I'm truing it as a multiprocess.Process
<james_w> yeah, it has no run() method
<rickspencer3> it seemed to work
<rickspencer3> at least it retrieved new messages
<james_w> right, so the reason MapAsync is a thread is to allow it to process multiple requests in parallel, and also to implement timeouts on them
<james_w> however, we can do that in a subprocess as well
<james_w> it does mean that gwibber could be quite the resource hog if it is busy :-)
<rickspencer3> right
<rickspencer3> but less than 100% probably ;)
<rickspencer3> so Dispatcher is dbus object right?
<rickspencer3> doesn't it just sit around until it gets called?
<james_w> yeah
<james_w> my changes seem to have broken it
<james_w> no 100% CPU, but nothing working either :-)
<rickspencer3> well, it's working for me
<rickspencer3> there is no more gobject.threads_init()
<rickspencer3> but yet I am still pegging the cpu :/
<rickspencer3> let me make sure I'm doing this right
<james_w> rickspencer3: I've got it working
<james_w> however, there's one thing that concerns me about it
<rickspencer3> kewl
<rickspencer3> only 1 thing?
<rickspencer3> that's good progress ;)
<james_w> that I had to make "daemon = False" on a bunch of stuff
<james_w> so it will leave stale processes around
<rickspencer3> mm
<rickspencer3> even if you quite from the GUI?
<rickspencer3> could we add a bit of clean up code there?
<james_w> yeah
<james_w> but tracking all the paths won't be that easy
<james_w> or it may just all work :-)
<rickspencer3> heh
<james_w> http://paste.ubuntu.com/410733/
<rickspencer3> so you changed all the threads to processes?
<james_w> just the couchdb one
<rickspencer3> itneresting
<james_w> oh, and MapAsync
<james_w> if you have a hammer... :-)
<james_w> the couch monitor appears to actually want to be async
<rickspencer3> right
<rickspencer3> james_w, can you push a branch I can pull?
<rickspencer3> I can test it out here
<rickspencer3> or I can just revert and apply your patch I suppose
<rickspencer3> running now
<rickspencer3> the people and groups I follow are always annoyingly quiet when I am testing gwibber
<james_w> lp:~james-w/gwibber/fix-threading
<jcastro> rickspencer3: refresh. :D
<Nafai> sweet
<Nafai> this may have been easier than I thought
<rickspencer3> Nafai, are you making progress on your branch?
<Nafai> yes, I have a first pass for others to test, I'm about to push it to launchpad
<Nafai> lp:~nafai/gwibber/gnomekeyring-fix
<james_w> Nafai: does it have much startup time impact?
<Nafai> Not sure, I'll have to measure it against the previous one.  There is a little spike in the CPU at first, but then the CPU goes down
<james_w> you could use multiprocessing to distribute the work across a few processes rather than doing it all sequentially ;-)
<rickspencer3> haha
<rickspencer3> james_w ... your patch seems to be working, except I'm not sure notifications are
<Nafai> it's the battle of the patches!
<james_w> hmm, what are the chances that libnotify uses threads?
<rickspencer3> heh
<TheMuso> Good morning.
<rickspencer3> james_w, I am sure libnotify is quite solid code
<rickspencer3> I could just be missing them
<Nafai> Hello TheMuso
<james_w> rickspencer3: no, I see it too
<rickspencer3> wow, I planned for being totally pinned down by the default search provider announcement
 * TheMuso is just seeing that announced in various places. Interesting.
<RAOF> Morning all.
<rickspencer3> hi RAOF
<Nafai> Hey RAOF
<RAOF> Good gwibber morning to you, too!
<Nafai> rickspencer3: Had a chance to try out my branch?
<Nafai> It's gwibber day for us here :)
<rickspencer3> Nafai, no
<rickspencer3> will do right now
<Nafai> ok
<RAOF> seb128: Re: using gnome-keyring's DBus interface - I had a look at that for gnome-keyring-sharp, and I don't think it's ready yet.  There's no introspection data, the last mailinglist thread I found said ânot finished yetâ, and most of the calls from libgnome-keyring go to org.gnome.keyring.ShamefullInternalInterface :)
<seb128> RAOF, hey, ok, I was not sure about that
<rickspencer3> Nafai, where's the branch?
<rickspencer3> james_w, fwiw, when I quit your gwibber, all the gwibber-services process went away
<RAOF> seb128: Just thought I could spare you some time if you wanted to go looking :)
<james_w> cool
<james_w> rickspencer3: found the notifications issue
<RAOF> Also, org.gnome.keyring.ShamefullInternalInterface is funny :)
<Nafai> lp:~nafai/gwibber/gnomekeyring-fix
<rickspencer3> Nafai, just run gwibber-service and gwibber?
<Nafai> yeah
<rickspencer3> seb128, I think we have at least 2 viable options for fixing gwibber now
<seb128> rickspencer3, I've been reading discussions and seeing that, nice
<rickspencer3> Nafai, I started gwibber-service and started getting notifications
<rickspencer3> so that's a good sign ;)
<Nafai> :)
<rickspencer3> Nafai, so far, wfm
<Nafai> yay
<rickspencer3> Nafai, have you handled the case of when a user changes their password?
<Nafai> not yet, but I can
<rickspencer3> well, I guess we'll need to
 * Nafai nods
<rickspencer3> I suppose the UI you could just shut down and restart gwibber-service
<rickspencer3> well, not "from the UI" but from the code for the settings UI
<rickspencer3> awesome clarity on my part
<rickspencer3> Nafai, maybe I spoke too soon
<Nafai> spike in CPU?
<rickspencer3> beam.smp seems awefull busy
<rickspencer3> it's not pegged
<rickspencer3> but mean.smp is at like 81% and gwibber service about 30%
<rickspencer3> they seem to be sharing a core
<rickspencer3> and between them pegging that core
<james_w> my approach isn't going to work without some more effort
<james_w> you can't use gobject signals across processes, and multiprocessing doesn't provide an equivalent
<rickspencer3> james is that for the notifications integration?
<james_w> yeah
<james_w> and possibly other things
<rickspencer3> james what about good old pipes?
<james_w> well, they don't work like signals
<james_w> without, like, threads or something
<james_w> we want to use the glib mainloop
<james_w> to get woken up when a new message appears in couch
<james_w> we can put the messages in a queue when we see them on couch
<james_w> but we the either need to poll, or use a thread or something to watch it
<james_w> we could throw another process at it
<rickspencer3> this reminds me of i956 graphics in Jaunty
<rickspencer3> Nafai, it's odd that mean.smp is spiking for me
<rickspencer3> I thought that was a desktopcouch process
<Nafai> yeah, I didn't change anything to increase couch access
<rickspencer3> even if you did, they fixed it I thought
<rickspencer3> Nafai, is it not spiking your CPU?
<Nafai> other than a bit on startup, no
<rickspencer3> hmmm
<desrt> hello hackers
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-04-08
<desrt> jcastro: hey?
<jcastro> yo
<desrt> normally you have some line in your invite about [reply to so-and-so with ACK]
<jcastro> it's in there.
<jcastro> with a deadline of the 16th
<desrt> ah.  marianna.
<desrt> gotcha.  thanks :)
<desrt> do i also discuss rooming with her?
<jcastro> yep
<desrt> cheers
<desrt> very odd.  the new claire is not named claire.
<james_w> rickspencer3: that's a thread I don't want to pull at any further tonight, there's more refactoring than I would like.
<rickspencer3> ?
<rickspencer3> sure
<james_w> using another process to replace glib signals
<rickspencer3> right
<rickspencer3> we'll have to do *something*
<james_w> it works for notifications I think, but not for how he is using it to imitate a dict for some of the settings
<rickspencer3> but let's call it  a day
<james_w> so I would have to restructure that bit as well
<rickspencer3> aargh
<rickspencer3> I can't repro getting the CPU to pin with Nafail
<rickspencer3> 's code now
<rickspencer3> though it seems rather resource intensive at time
<rickspencer3> s
<Nafai> hrm
<james_w> http://osdir.com/ml/svn-commits-list/2010-01/msg03809.html
<james_w> wow, that may make my approach pretty much impossible anyway
<rickspencer3> Nafai, I'm not getting the pegging issue again
<james_w> seems dobey was pretty much there with https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~dobey/gwibber/gwibber-keyring-unthreaded/+merge/22704 but I'm not sure it will have worked
<Nafai> ok, I'll work on the changes stuff
<james_w> rickspencer3: does starting gwibber-service as "./bin/gwibber-service -d -o" give any hint as to what it is doing?
<rickspencer3> good question
<rickspencer3> I can for sure try
<james_w> if it's beam.smp that's pinning it then it's a different issue, but may just be something like we are accessing it more now
<rickspencer3> james_w, well, it only pinned once
<rickspencer3> I can't reproduce it now
<rickspencer3> but, yeah
<james_w> if it keeps happening then I would suggest hitting up chad or something to find if it's possible to get a debug log from couch
<james_w> but now I must slee
<james_w> p
<Nafai> good night james_w
<james_w> good night
<rickspencer3> night james_w
<rickspencer3> Nafai, so I think your approach is going to be preferred
<Nafai> ok
<rickspencer3> changing from threading to processes seems to involved
<Nafai> I think so
<james_w> yup
<Nafai> once I clean this up a bit, should I propose it for merging and let kenvandine look at it in the morning?
<rickspencer3> with Nafai's branch, I think we are closer to something we can ship
<james_w> we just need to be very careful what is run in the subprocesses that are currently there
<rickspencer3> Nafai, yes
<Nafai> awesome
<rickspencer3> james_w, any help looking at that would be great
<rickspencer3> (tomorrow of course)
<rickspencer3> ;)
<james_w> sure
<james_w> link me up and I'll take a look tomorrow
<rickspencer3> wow, gwibber is just a resource hog
<Nafai> james_w: What's your email and I'll send a link?
<Nafai> s/?//
<rickspencer3> I wonder if we can sleep it for longer
<james_w> Nafai: request a review from me on the merge proposal, that's the easiest way
<Nafai> ah, cool
<Nafai> learning more about launchpad
<james_w> "Request another review" when you have done it, I'm james-w
<Nafai> :)
<james_w> otherwise I'm in the directory
<Nafai> will do
<rickspencer3> Nafai, may I dent a link to your branch?
<Nafai> sure :)
<rickspencer3> Nafai, are you @nafai?
<Nafai> travisbhartwell
<Nafai> I decided to go different
<rickspencer3> ok, my legions of followers will see your branch
<rickspencer3> by legions, like 100
<rickspencer3> ;)
<rickspencer3> Nafai, good job
<Nafai> thanks!
<rickspencer3> it's an excellent start, and you got it done in the one day time frame
<rickspencer3> except we still need to the mlocking, of course
<rickspencer3> Nafai, was pitti going to help with the mlock part?
<Nafai> yeah, I'll send an email to him when I'm done pointing him to the branch
<rickspencer3> break time for me
<chrisccoulson> bzr merge-upstream rocks
<rickspencer3> Nafai, fwiw, gwibber still running fine for me
<Nafai> yay
<rickspencer3> I hope the mlock implementation proves tractable
<Nafai> taking a break for dinner and will finish up later tonight
<rickspencer3> Google is quite mum on the topic
<Nafai> yeah, I hope so too
<rickspencer3> bye Nafai
<chrisccoulson> is anyone else here using bindwood?
<LaserJock> rickspencer3: oh my gosh, is it true?! is Nafai our hero?
<rickspencer3> not sure yet
<rickspencer3> still have to figure out how to mlock the passwords from Python
<rickspencer3> and need to test test test
<rickspencer3> I think pitti is going to try his hand at the mlocking tomorrow
<TheMuso> Is this all to fix the keyring CPU bug?
<rickspencer3> TheMuso well ...
<rickspencer3> sort of
<TheMuso> heh right.
<rickspencer3> it's a "key ring bug" per se
<TheMuso> ah.
<rickspencer3> so much as using the keyring exposes certain incompatibilities between different APIs
<TheMuso> Oh lovely.
<LaserJock> perhaps if gnome-keyring was forged in the bowels of Mount Doom.....
<rickspencer3> LaserJock, I don't think it has to do with gnome-keyring per se
<rickspencer3> I think that a lot of apps were kind of lucky that they worked, and gnome-keyring just kind of caused their flaws to cause bugs
<LaserJock> I know I know, just trying to insert some humor
<rickspencer3> threading and async programming in genreal is just super buggy
<rickspencer3> LaserJock, I know
<LaserJock> so do you want people to test the branch now or wait a bit?
<rickspencer3> I just didn't want the gnome-keyring guys to think we were calling them out
<rickspencer3> LaserJock, might as well test Nafai's branch
<LaserJock> bah, stupid gwibber build system
<rickspencer3> build?
<rickspencer3> LaserJock, I just branched, and ran bin/gwibber-service
<rickspencer3> then bin/gwibber
<rickspencer3> still no cpu pegging after like an hour or so
<LaserJock> it won't start here
<LaserJock> the INSTALL files said sudo python setup.py install which *should* put it in /usr/local
<LaserJock> but of course even though I told them not to do that they still install to /usr by default
<LaserJock> *anyway*, I get some dbus-related error and it won't start up
<rickspencer3> LaserJock, don't installit
<rickspencer3> just run the code
<LaserJock> tried that too
<LaserJock> but of course now it's a little hard to figure out what's from the .deb and what's not
<LaserJock> do I need any magic commands to set up gwibber-related services?
<LaserJock> I get:
<LaserJock> dbus.exceptions.DBusException: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.Spawn.ChildExited: Launch helper exited with unknown return code 1
<rickspencer3> deb?
<rickspencer3> laser jock, I just branched the code and ran it from the cl
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> but I have the .debs already installed
<LaserJock> when I ran the gwibber installer it overwrote that
<LaserJock> sometimes you get weirdnesses when you do things like that
<LaserJock> ok, after reinstalling the .debs it seems to start
 * rickspencer3 steps away for dinner, family time
<LaserJock> rickspencer3: hmm, I seemed to just peg it
<LaserJock> *to have just
<LaserJock> worked the first few times though
<rickspencer3> LaserJock, are you 100% confident you are running Nafai's branch?
<LaserJock> not 100% so I'm doing it again
<LaserJock> I mean, before it was *every* time I did a refresh
<LaserJock> this time I closed the gwibber window, opened it again, and then did the refresh
<LaserJock> hmm, now I'm just getting the pegged CPU every time
<LaserJock> rickspencer3: yeah, it's not working for me, I get the same behavior as the current gwibber
<LaserJock> rickspencer3: this is what I get from CLI http://paste.ubuntu.com/410797/
<Nafai> Hi
 * Nafai looks at LaserJock's paste
<Nafai> LaserJock: Did you run bin/gwibber-service before running gwibber?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> nobody told me that one :-)
<Nafai> yeah, that way it will run the new service
<Nafai> :)
<LaserJock> well that seems to work a bit better
<Nafai> :)
<rickspencer3> hehe
<rickspencer3> LaserJock, working now?
<rickspencer3> every time my fan turns on, I have to check gwibber
<TheMuso> heh
<LaserJock> rickspencer3: looking good, I even added a new account
<rickspencer3> nice
<rickspencer3> LaserJock, so it pegged with the old service, and not the new one?
<rickspencer3> that's great so far
<Nafai> anyone know how to restart a dbus service from another process?
<RAOF> If the dbus service provides a .service file in the appropriate place, just try to call one of the methods.
<chrisccoulson> Nafai - not sure. i know how to start a service, but i'm not sure if you can restart one
 * Nafai nods
<chrisccoulson> you actually want to restart an already running service?
<Nafai> well, I'm trying to figure out the best way to handle this -- the changes I've made to gwibber-service load the passwords from gnome-keyring when gwibber-service starts up
<Nafai> so a solution to handle password changes would be to restart the service
<walters> Nafai: call StartServiceByName on org.freedesktop.DBus
<chrisccoulson> walters - does that restart an already running service though?
<Nafai> walters: so if it is already running, that will do it?
<walters> chrisccoulson: no
<chrisccoulson> Nafai - you would probably need to add a Restart() method to gwibber-service
 * walters should have read from the bottom up rather than top down
<chrisccoulson> heh ;)
 * Nafai nods
<jcastro> hyperair: hi
<jcastro> hyperair: the b-c-e app indicator patch is working great!
<jcastro> the icon is wrong though, is that just me or a known bug?
<LaserJock> rickspencer3, Nafai: yeah, gwibber is running better than it has in weeks for sure
<Nafai> sweet
<rickspencer3> man, when gwibber is doing it's work, it works *hard*
<LaserJock> I tried closing just gwibber (not -service) and restarting and refreshing as that was causing problems
<LaserJock> all good now
<LaserJock> rickspencer3: gwibber is the biggest CPU user on my machine, and the biggest single RAM user
<LaserJock> it's a pretty heavy app
<rickspencer3> *sigh*
<Nafai> I hope we can optimize it for Maverick
<LaserJock> I've become wary that any desktop client of webapps are hopelessly bad performing
<LaserJock> getting the data takes a whole lot of effort, along with auth, sync, etc.
<rickspencer3> Nafai, hey
<Nafai> HI rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> so I have both my twitter and my identica passwords in the keyring now
<rickspencer3> and I've been running gwibber for like an hour
<rickspencer3> and it
<rickspencer3> s not pegged yet
<Nafai> yay
<rickspencer3> though in 10.10, we really have to put it on a diet
<rickspencer3> I mean, it's going to kill your netbook battery
<Nafai> I haven't figured out the best way to handle changes to passwords, but I think kenvandine will be able to figure out that part easily
<Nafai> I'm going to put some ideas in the merge request
<rickspencer3> Nafai, just stop and start the service seems like a reasonable back up plan
<rickspencer3> this will only happen in the unusual cases when you change or set your password
<Nafai> yeah
<Nafai> or add an account
<rickspencer3> yeah
<rickspencer3> hmm
<rickspencer3> that code must be in there, I guess
<rickspencer3> anyway, I gotsa run
<rickspencer3> c'ya tomorrow
<Nafai> later
<kenvandine> Nafai, got a fix?
<Nafai> Think so!
<Nafai> just sent a merge request
<kenvandine> woot
<kenvandine> lp:~nafai/gwibber/gnomekeyring-fix ?
<Nafai> yup
<Nafai> I listed an explanation and some todos on the merge request comments
<kenvandine> cool, thanks man!
<Nafai> np
<Nafai> Have fun with the tigers?  Lose any kids?  (re: your tweet)
<Nafai> :)
<Nafai> well, I better get ready for bed.  I'll see y'all in the morning
<kenvandine> hehe... no left with all 3 :)
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> Nafai: great work, you figured it out?
<baptistemm> heya pitti
<seb128> hey there
<didrocks> good morning seb128
<seb128> lut didrocks
<didrocks> hey pitti
<seb128> ca va ?
<didrocks> Ã§a va, bien dormi :) et toi?
<seb128> un peu fatiguÃ© mais sinon ca va
<didrocks> couchÃ© tard?
<seb128> oui, 3h
<mvo> didrocks: hey, good morning! I see there is a compiz -ubuntu14 in bzr, is that uploaded and in the queue? or accidently not set to UNRELEASED?
<seb128> didn't get too lucky with evening hacking which frustrated me and I didn't want to go to bed before fixing one of the issues I had on my evening todolist
<seb128> which took me a while
<seb128> hey mvo, how are you?
<pitti> bonjour seb128, didrocks, baptistemm; ca va?
<seb128> hey pitti
<mvo> hey seb128
<seb128> oui, et toi ?
<mvo> seb128: good, thanks!
<didrocks> mvo: it's in the queue from a week
<didrocks> mvo: good morning
<mvo> didrocks: heh :) ok
<seb128> whoever managed to bring fr back on the i386 iso thanks
<didrocks> sweet :)
<baptistemm> do you think I should send upstream the patch from bug 529734
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 529734 in gnome-bluetooth "Please add LXDE to bluetooth-properties" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/529734
<baptistemm> I don't know LXDE :)
<seb128> baptistemm, yes
<seb128> it's a light desktop
<seb128> it has been added to fd.o specs etc too I think
<baptistemm> it's gonna be a pain to add an entry for every desktop  that exist
<didrocks> seb128: I tried on Tuesday evening to fix the preview to show the right button layout order in g-c-c. Didn't managed to get that without copying bunch of code and hackish solution. Furthermore, as there are some discussion upstream about removing most of g-c-c features like theme choice in the appeareance capplet, I told myself we'll see next cycle.
<baptistemm> so james_w, if you're have some times to merge my request linked in the bug 529734, I'd appreciate :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 529734 in gnome-bluetooth "Please add LXDE to bluetooth-properties" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/529734
<baptistemm> I try to clean all bluetooth related bugs (bluez, bluez-gnome, gnome-bluetooth) but this is really difficult..
<seb128> hum
 * seb128 does french iso testing
 * seb128 looks at pitti now
<seb128> "item = gtk.MenuItem('Install Drivers')"
<seb128> in gtk/jockey-gtk
 * pitti blames ronoc :)
<pitti> seb128: fixing in trunk
<seb128> pitti, danke
<seb128> pitti, bug #542552
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 542552 in jockey ""Install Drivers" indicator shortcut not translatable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/542552
<seb128> if you need a bug reference
<pitti> perfect, thanks
<seb128> seems redhat has crash bug reporting now
<pitti> seb128: yes, with ABRT
<seb128> but not dup detection with it...
<seb128> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/buglist.cgi?component=gvfs&query_format=advanced&order=bug_id&query_based_on=
<seb128> look at their bug list
 * seb128 hugs pitti for apport and retracers
<pitti> they rewrote ABRT from scratch instead of using Apport.. :-(
<seb128> they pay for it now
<seb128> hey MacSlow, njpatel
<bryceh> pitti, seb128, oh you're kidding.
<bryceh> *sigh*
<MacSlow> hey seb128, njpatel, njpatel
<pitti> hey bryceh
<pitti> guten Morgen MacSlow
<MacSlow> bryceh,
<MacSlow> hi pitti
<pitti> bryceh: what about? ABRT?
<njpatel> seb128, MacSlow hey guys
<bryceh> pitti, yeah
<bryceh> heya MacSlow
<njpatel> bryceh, hey
<bryceh> hey njpatel
<njpatel> bryceh, found a mail from you from a couple of weeks back, it got filtered incorrectly hence no reply, sorry :)
<njpatel> bryceh, basic answer to the mail is: I'm still on square one, and nearing defeat ;-)
 * MacSlow wonders why the mouse won't move the cursor on the screen
<bryceh> pitti, they definitely knew of apport - https://fedorahosted.org/abrt/wiki/AbrtOthers
<bryceh> pitti, so why didn't they just contribute the needed improvements/changes to apport?
<bryceh> njpatel, aha, yeah I was afraid of that
<bryceh> njpatel, yeah seems wayland is a tough nut to crack.  Glad it's not just me having troubles.
<bryceh> seb128, http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Talk:Features/ABRT heh
<seb128> bryceh, I think they just don't want to use somebody we did, they would need to admit to do useful things
<seb128> somebody -> something
 * seb128 not awake yet, coffee!
<bryceh> seb128, I think you may be right
<seb128> to do -> we do
<seb128> I should really start reading what I type
<bryceh> seb128, guess we have something to point to now next time they level accusations
<seb128> they do what they want but it's a shame for them
<seb128> looking through their bugzilla they are the ones who get the troubles
<bryceh> seb128, I'm sure Jef will spin it as a pro for fedora to have so many
<RAOF> My lord, that's a lot of [abrt] bugs.
<seb128> RAOF, it is
<seb128> RAOF, hey btw, did you have a good day?
<RAOF> Yeah, a fine day.
<RAOF> X bugs are less fun than hacking on C# code, though :)
<seb128> lol
<pitti> bryceh: I heard rumours that it's due to our contributor agreement requirement
<bryceh> ahh
<tjaalton> does upstart have the same contrib agreement req?
<pitti> I guess so
<seb128> pitti, bug #551712
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 551712 in gdm "slow transition from gdm to gnome desktop in ubuntu lucid" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/551712
<pitti> seb128: "ERROR: Broken attachment on bug, ignoring" -> hah, at least that part is working now in the retracers :)
<seb128> what do you think would be to blame for it?
<seb128> pitti, "The reason was that i had in the BIOS an inexistent floppy drive enabled. After disabling it the load takes about 3 seconds, in contrast to the 15~25secs before. "
<seb128> pitti, that's the bug summary
<seb128> pitti, oh, nice ;-)
<pitti> seb128: udisks or gvfs, I think
<pitti> but udisks shoudn't block, at most its udev probers (but they are async)
<seb128> do you have any hint on what to ask to figure what is doing that?
<pitti> seb128: (will respond in a bit, still busy with other IRC chats)
<seb128> pitti, ok
<seb128> pitti, no hurry
<czajkowski> morning folks
<czajkowski> seb128: this morning, latest lot of updates has my software center in the correct location :)
<seb128> hey czajkowski
<seb128> czajkowski, weird
<czajkowski> very
<seb128> it's probably some mvo magic there
<czajkowski> but nice to see it there :)
<pitti> seb128: I'd ask for a bootchart
<pitti> seb128: it's the easiest thing where you can see where time is spent on
<seb128> pitti, see the bug there is already bootcharts there
<pitti> .png.tar.gz?
<pitti> oh come on
<pitti> why not .png.tar.gz.asc.zip.rar, to make it even more comfortable..
<seb128> I can't see anything weird in the charts though
<pitti> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/42500603/lance-desktop-lucid-20100330-5.png.tar.gz seems fine to me
<pitti> it's a slow VIA CPU, apparently
<pitti> but no hang
<seb128> well no nautilus, etc either
<pitti> hm, right
<pitti> seb128: you could compare it with a second login after logigng out, when udisks etc. is already running
<seb128> pitti, thanks for the hint
<seb128> I've a similar issue on a box I think, I don't have access to this one right now but will check later the bios floppy hint
<pitti> seb128: or drop gnome-panel from /etc/init.d/bootchart, so that it goes on for a minute
<seb128> if that's the same bug will be easier to debug locally
<seb128> hum
 * seb128 subscribes pitti to bug #557669
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 557669 in nautilus "nautilus missing eject option for cd/dvd-rom" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/557669
 * seb128 stops bothering pitti then, enough IRC ping for a morning there
<pitti> heh, NP :)
<seb128> I'm wondering if this one is a side effect of you usb eject change
<rodrigo_> seb128, do you know if webkit in lucid is getting an upgrade to 1.2.0?
<seb128> rodrigo_, I plan to do sync the new one after beta2 yes
<seb128> rodrigo_, hey btw ;-)
<rodrigo_> seb128, ah, ok
<seb128> rodrigo_, do you want the update or you want to make sure we don't update for a reason? ;-)
<rodrigo_> seb128, well, there's a crash on the music store that happens in webkit, and I'm just looking at what produces it
<seb128> ok
<seb128> debian has 1.2 if that can be useful to you
<seb128> rodrigo_, http://incoming.debian.org/
<seb128> you can find debs there
<rodrigo_> oh, ok, will try that
<asac> its strange ... have solid color in gnome-terminal but its always transparent :/
<seb128> RAOF, bug #557747
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 557747 in f-spot "f-spot crashes when trying to export photos to smugmug" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/557747
<seb128> RAOF, could be a gnome-keyring-sharp issue?
<seb128> asac, right, known bug, you need to set transparent and the slider on the limit
<seb128> asac, solid means = what theme defines right now
<asac> ah ok. cool
<RAOF> That does look like a gnome-keyring(-sharp) bug.
<RAOF> But that looks like the gnome-keyring daemon has died, too, so raising an I/O exception seems to be the right response.
<asac> mvo: oh
<asac> mvo: apturl doesnt block anymore?
<asac> ;)
<asac> how can i see if the install succeeded or failed?
<didrocks> asac: hey, did you try copying UNE config for -efl? (in other terms, do we need the new package?)
<mvo> asac: it should be the same as in karmic, that code has not really changed
<mvo> asac: and it works for me(tm)
<asac> mvo: i run " apturl apt:mozilla-plugin-gnash?section=universe"
<asac> that just returns
<asac> and then the dialog pops up
<asac> didrocks: UNE config is in which package?
<asac> i have to ask someone to test it as i have no install for that here atm
<didrocks> asac: as told yesterday, ubuntu-netbook-default-settings, and change all "une" to "une-efl" or whatever you called the .destkop session file
<asac> didrocks: you didnt say the package name yesterday ;)
<asac> thx
<mvo> asac: is universe disabled for you? still no luck reporudcing
<asac> mvo: hmm. no its definitly enabled
<asac> i have a huge sources.list ;)
<asac> maybe something is running that is then used ?
<didrocks> 2010-04-08 09:28:51     didrocks        16:56:21> asac: for testing, you can copy every files (but netbook-launcher) containing "une" in the path and replace them with "une-efl" (/etc/xdg-efl mostly and gconf related stuff) from the ubuntu-netbook-default-settings package
<asac> like update-manager etc.?
<didrocks> it was :)
<asac> didrocks: i didnt see what came after "une-efl" ;)
<didrocks> argh ;)
<mvo> asac: does this patch make a difference? http://paste.ubuntu.com/410939/
<asac> checking
<asac> mvo: doesnt apply cleanly
<asac> also paste.ubuntu.com again needs openid :(
<asac> e.g. no wget
<cassidy> seb128, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/telepathy-mission-control/+bug/557884 could be a cool one to fix in Lucid
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 557884 in telepathy-mission-control-5 "telepathy mission-control might timeout too early when joining a chatroom" [Undecided,New]
<seb128> cassidy, ok thanks
<mvo> asac: sorry, let debug it after lunch
<baptistemm> cassidy, and the frequent telepathy-butterfly crash would be cool to fix :)
<baptistemm> I don't know if the fix is available somewhere though
<cassidy> I think istaz fixed some
<seb128> baptistemm, which one?
<baptistemm> hmm, each time I start empathy
<seb128> baptistemm, which one?
<baptistemm> letme check if I did enter a bug, or I didn't
<seb128> baptistemm, can you get a stacktrace?
<baptistemm> usually if I see a dup I don't open a bug
<seb128> good, what is the bug number?
<seb128> and does it crash or is it only apport noise?
<baptistemm> hmm, I'll do the check once I'll be at home
<seb128> ok
<baptistemm> I listed several: when I changed status, and when I start empathy
<seb128> we fixed one some days ago
 * baptistemm adds that to its todo list
<seb128> cassidy, do you think you could roll a new empathy tarball next week?
<seb128> cassidy, schedule is tight, I don't think we will get the .1 GNOME tarballs in lucid
<cassidy> seb128, sure, just ping me next week
<seb128> ok, thanks
<asac> mvo: its gone :(
<asac> let me check something
<hyperair> jcastro: wrong icon?
<hyperair> jcastro: screenshot?
<hyperair> jcastro: and by the way, it's no patch. it's an official extension upstream =)
<seb128> bah, gdmsetup looks ridiculous in french on lucid
<seb128> thanks didrocks ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, but I was told "no tooltip", so :)
<seb128> who told you that?
<seb128> and no 2 lines
<seb128> the way the session capplet does?
<seb128> one bold with the title
<seb128> and one normal under it with the description
<seb128> anyway it's late for lucid now
<seb128> but it really sucks
<didrocks> I agree it sucksâ¦
 * seb128 is annoyed, we need to do less changes but take time to do those properly next cycle
<seb128> didrocks, I'm still interested to know where the tooltip option was discussed
<seb128> I want to talk to whoever said no to it
<didrocks> seb128: well, at Portland IIRC, I talked with kwwii about tooltip on combobox
<seb128> didrocks, hum, k, I will not make a fuss about it but it's a lame thing to decide in a sprint corridor this way ;-)
<seb128> I wonder if we could tweak the french translation in some way for lucid
<didrocks> seb128: I agree, we can still find another layout next cycle in any case.
<akgraner> Hi anyone know when fonts will be ready?  or what is the better channel to ask in?
<seb128> akgraner, what fonts? I've fonts there
<seb128> how would you have text displayed otherwise?
<akgraner> then new ones
<akgraner> that match the new theme
<seb128> which new ones?
<seb128> I'm not aware of any new font for lucid
<akgraner> that match the new light theme
<ogra> seb128, i think she means the logo fonts
<seb128> k, dunno about that
<seb128> check with artwork team I guess
<seb128> or kwwii
<ogra> akgraner, likely better to ask in some of the artwork channels
<akgraner> ahh ok
<akgraner> thanks I forget about that channel - sorry :-(
<seb128> no worry
<seb128> but yeah, artwork guys probably know better about artwork changes
<seb128> it seems late in the cycle for a new font now though
<ogra> i think there is a ttf for the new logo font but it might not be packaged
<lool> Did someone notice odd switches to the console ttys when using alt + Fn keys under xorg?
<lool> When I alt + left arrow or alt + F4 for instance I get to a text console; switching back to xorg, the keypress is then processed
<seb128> lool, I didn't
<seb128> the pkgbinarymangler bug on gnome-games is still there in lucid
<seb128> pitti, the bug is assigned to you since karmic, is that still something you want to look at?
<seb128> it would spare a fair amount of CD space I guess
<pitti> seb128: that somehow fell below the threshold, I'm afraid
<seb128> k
<seb128> I just notice while looking at current iso and space usage
<seb128> noticed
<pitti> seb128: do we need more?
<seb128> define need
<seb128> do we need german translations on the CD? ;-)
<seb128> I'm not sure how far we are from getting another language back there
<seb128> but I guess it's low importance anyway
<seb128> it's just nice to get an extra locale installed if we can
<pitti> seb128: "need" -> "we do not have the French language pack yet"
<pitti> :)
<pitti> seb128: I can look at it for lucid if needs be
<seb128> pitti, weeeeell, for a reason I don't want to know we have fr and not de
<seb128> which I'm happy with
<seb128> I'm just concerned somebody will notice and switch order: p
<pitti> seb128: do you know whether bug 536925 is actually an issue for f-spot?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 536925 in gnome-rdp "gnome-keyring-sharp uses deprecated socket interface; apps cannot use keyring" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/536925
<seb128> pitti, hum, that has been fixed no?
<pitti> seb128: in g-k-sharp, but the f-spot task is still open
<pitti> I'll assign it to RAOF, I guess he'll know best
<seb128> I think there is no client side part no, but better to check with RAOF
<seb128> ie f-spot should be working now
<seb128> since g-k-s has been updated
<pitti> ok, asked in the bug
<pitti> seb128: yeah, that's what I figured out as well, but I'm not sure
<chrisccoulson> Riddell - how is the default search provider defined in konqueror?
<Riddell> chrisccoulson: it's set in /usr/share/kubuntu-default-settings/kde4-profile/default/share/config/kuriikwsfilterrc in kubuntu-default-settings
<chrisccoulson> Riddell - excellent, thanks
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, did you get to try out Nafai's branch?
<kenvandine> yup
<rickspencer3> and?
<kenvandine> talked to him about it last night after you dropped off
<kenvandine> i like it
<kenvandine> got a couple tweaks already
<kenvandine> it's working
<rickspencer3> seems pitti has some code to try for mlock'ing
<kenvandine> yeah
<rickspencer3> I ran it over night, btw
<rickspencer3> and worked fine, so far as I could tell
<kenvandine> mine too
<rickspencer3> so mlock and restarting gwibber-service when someone changes their password, right?
<pitti> hey rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> hi pitti
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, i have another idea there
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, sure
<kenvandine> Nafai, any special reason you put it in bin/gwibber-service?
<kenvandine> couldn't we just put it in the Dispatcher class and add a dbus method to refresh the passwords?
<kenvandine> like we could call keyring.get_account_passwords() anytime to refresh our password list, right?
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, isn't the key to ensure that get_account_passwords is never called from a thread?
<kenvandine> well, not really
<kenvandine> it works from a regular thread just fine
<kenvandine> the problem was for the pool
<kenvandine> my example that just used gobject was fine
<kenvandine> even in a thread
<rickspencer3> ok
<rickspencer3> but still
<kenvandine> so i think we can just move that to the dispatcher and add a dbus call to refresh it
<kenvandine> so we don't need to restart it
<kenvandine> unless someone has a reason not to
<kenvandine> note: i haven't tried it yet :)
<rickspencer3> just keep it simple
<rickspencer3> changing passwords is not something that happens to frequently
<kenvandine> agree, i just think this is simpler :)
<rickspencer3> fair enough
<rickspencer3> "works solidly" is the most important attribute of this part, imo
<kenvandine> Nafai, fyi i have pushed a slight change to lp:~ken-vandine/gwibber/keyring_hell_lp_554005
<kenvandine> if you are working on stuff, merge that in
<rickspencer3> (notice the lack of an "h", because, really, who would I be kidding)
<kenvandine> just moved keyring.py to microblog.util
<kenvandine> heheh
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, actually... i hadn't merged a change into trunk yet before Nafai branched it... Dispatcher doesn't use threading.Thread anymore
<kenvandine> it wasn't actually used it
<kenvandine> i changed that in the 2.30 branch
 * kenvandine merges it
<rickspencer3> yes, we noticed that yesterday
<rickspencer3> also, MapAsync does not need to be a thread
<rickspencer3> all it does is spawn processes anyway
<kenvandine> true
<kenvandine> i merged that change into lp:~ken-vandine/gwibber/keyring_hell_lp_554005 too
<rickspencer3> kewl
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, Nafai probably won't be online for another hour
<rickspencer3> he starts around 9am his time
<kenvandine> oh right... timezone :)
<kenvandine> he isn't as nuts as rickspencer3
<kenvandine> :-D
<rickspencer3> hehe
<seb128> slomo, hey
<seb128> slomo, do you think you could fix the totem-pl-parser gir binary naming?
<slomo> seb128: how should it be called? gir1.0-totem-plparser-1.0?
<seb128> gir1.0-totemplparser-1.0
<seb128> or I guess yours works too
<seb128> the one I gave is the one we use in Ubuntu
<seb128> the debian minipolicy about those states it should have the -version though
<seb128> which you didn't do on the current one
<slomo> ok, changed it
<seb128> slomo, thanks!
<slomo> looks good to you?
<seb128> slomo, I would have prefered using the same naming than ubuntu but I guess it will work
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, dropping threading.Thread from Dispatcher and MapAsync reduced the RSS usage by 8M on my x86_64 laptop
<rickspencer3> kewl
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, that's great
<jcastro> hyperair: I get the old icon but in the app indicator area.
<jcastro> hyperair: it works great I just think it's using the wrong icon
<Nafai> morning
<rickspencer3> hi Nafai
<rickspencer3> read scroll back, kenvandine proposed a branch of your branch
 * Nafai reads
<kenvandine> hey Nafai
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, your "no threads where not needed" changes are in there?
<Nafai> Hey kenvandine
<kenvandine> lp:~ken-vandine/gwibber/keyring_hell_lp_554005
<kenvandine> merge that back into your branch
<kenvandine> and thanks for the awesome work :)
<Nafai> ok, just bzr pull from that?
<Nafai> np
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, Nafai possible to upload this fix today sometime?
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, yeah
<kenvandine> Nafai, bzr merge lp:~ken-vandine/gwibber/keyring_hell_lp_554005
<kenvandine> and bzr ci
<Nafai> ah, nice
<Nafai> still getting used to the bzr workflow
<kenvandine> Nafai, i merged in the changes from the 2.30 branch too, which dropped threading.Thread from Dispatcher
<kenvandine> and i dropped it from MapAsync
<kenvandine> it reduced RSS usage by 8M on my 64bit box and 3M on my i386 netbook :)
<Nafai> nice
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, btw i did a little more video editing the other night... pitivi worked perfectly, and easily :)
<rickspencer3> nice!
<kenvandine> i just wish i didn't have to use dvgrab to capture the video off my camera :/
<rickspencer3> pitivi ftw
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, well, why not fix that in 10.10?
<rickspencer3> ;)
<kenvandine> but mini DV seems to be dieing
<kenvandine> i went to buy tapes last week at hhgregg, and they don't sell them anymore because they don't sell any DV cameras!
 * kenvandine really prefers having original tapes to store long term
<LaserJock> shesh
<LaserJock> you guys really lowered the RAM usage of gwibber
<czajkowski> kenvandine: if you pm me make and modle shop over here still has a selection
<kenvandine> LaserJock, yup
<kenvandine> best buy still had some, but the price went up a little
<czajkowski> kenvandine: and I can pick some up and send them or bring them to UDS for you if you like
<kenvandine> it just shows it is dieing off
<kenvandine> i don't trust hard drives :)
<Nafai> kenvandine: So should I try moving this code to Dispatcher?
<kenvandine> our family photos are synced to 3 machines in the house and offsite on a usb drive
<kenvandine> Nafai, sure
<kenvandine> i was about to do that :)
<kenvandine> Nafai, want to do it? or do you have more pressing things?
<Nafai> Nope, I can take care of it'
<kenvandine> i was going to add a method to Dispatcher for doing it and add Dispatcher.refresh_creds() to bin/gwibber-service
<kenvandine> or whatever name you choose
<kenvandine> and expose the method via dbus so accounts.py can call it when saving accounts
<kenvandine> Nafai, i'll handle making gwibber-accounts call it
<jcastro> LaserJock: yeah! It's getting there!
<kenvandine> LaserJock, RSS for gwibber-service on my netbook is 8M
<Nafai> kenvandine: sounds good
<kenvandine> with 3 accounts
<LaserJock> kenvandine: how do you measure that?
<kenvandine> ps -e -opcpu=,rss=,vsize=,size=,start_time=,cmd= |grep gwibber-service|grep python| grep -v grep
<seb128> mvo, didn't software-center use to allow to queue or start several installations?
<kenvandine> LaserJock, i have a script that runs that every minute in cron logging the results :)
<mvo> seb128: it still does, there is one (fix in bzr, queue) bug that prevents it in the applist interface
<mvo> seb128: if you go to the details and queue it there it will work
<mvo> seb128: or use the bzr version
<seb128> mvo, oh ok, thanks
<seb128> mvo, you rock as usual, fixing bugs before I find them ;-)
 * seb128 hugs mvo
<kenvandine> hehe
<kenvandine> preemptive bug fixing :)
<mvo> the best kind!
 * mvo hugs seb128 back
<seb128> s-c is slooooow though
<seb128> I got the compiz way to tell you it doesn't respond for like 8 seconds when clicking on the partnair entry
<seb128> but there is only acroread listed there
<LaserJock> kenvandine: ok, I get 20MB
<seb128> it's fast now, I wonder if I didn't select the "ubuntu provided" one by error
<seb128> the mini touchapd sucks
<kenvandine> LaserJock, on my amd64 laptop it is 29M right now
<kenvandine> gwibber-service on i386 has generally been about 40% of what it is on amd64
<LaserJock> kenvandine: gwibber itself is still ~ 60MB, but not as bad as it used to be anyway
<kenvandine> yeah, it is gonna be much higher
<kenvandine> webkit
<kenvandine> and UI stuff
<LaserJock> I'm not sure what to think
<LaserJock> the bling is fun
<kenvandine> we'll try to make it smaller next cycle
<LaserJock> but with 1GB of RAM in this netbook, I wouldn't mind having a bit lighter version
<Amaranth> Once we're all using webkit-gtk it won't hurt so bad
<kenvandine> this cycle i have focused on gwibber-service
<kenvandine> since that mostly will run all the time
<LaserJock> I use them at the same time still
<kenvandine> LaserJock, gwibber on my amd64 is 113824 right now
<LaserJock> I have to say I'm slightly unnerved by the whole "File->Quit is different than hitting the close button" thing
 * kenvandine hates that having a 64 system so you can have more memory means it uses more memory
<LaserJock> perhaps some wording or something can be used to help
<kenvandine> open for suggestions for next cycle
<seb128> pitti, what is doing the "writing on disk..." progress bar on eject in lucid?
<seb128> pitti, g-d-u?
<pitti> seb128: I _think_ it's gdu-notification-daemon
<pitti> it could be gvfs-gdu-volume-monitor as well, let me check
<seb128> pitti, ok thanks, the thing decided that the ssd drive in my mini needed flushing before being removed when I unmount the other lucid partition I have there
<seb128> pitti, ie it display the bouncing bar when clicking on the eject icon in nautilus sidebar for a partition on the ssd drive
<mvo> seb128: the ubuntu provided one is really slow. if I had my will it would only show apps and the system menu would have sub-menus
<mvo> seb128: but *shrug*
<seb128> mvo, yeah...
<seb128> mvo, is that still gtk being slow?
<seb128> mvo, the ubuntu mode didn't help there?
<LaserJock> kenvandine: so I'm down to ~6 sec. warm starts for gwibber and ~ 30s cold starts
<mvo> seb128: gtk is much better now, its not entirely clear currenlty whats causing it now. but I also did not have much time to investigate yet
<seb128> mvo, ok, I was just being curious there, thanks
<LaserJock> kenvandine: which means it got cut in half from earlier in lucid
<kenvandine> LaserJock, i wish i could see why cold starting is so slow for you
<rickspencer3> chrisccoulson is totally the unsung hero of the desktop
<Nafai> kenvandine: I just pushed the move to Dispatcher to my branch, the DBus method is RefreshCreds
<kenvandine> thx
<rickspencer3> Nafai did you get the mlock working?
<Nafai> I'm going to work on the mlock stuff now
<LaserJock> kenvandine: well, gwibber-service does an update before it actually opens gwibber up doesn't it?
<rickspencer3> cool
<kenvandine> awesome
<rickspencer3> let's get this uploaded today!
<kenvandine> LaserJock, no it doesn't
<rickspencer3> (well after the freeze anyway) ;)
<LaserJock> kenvandine: on a cold start?
<kenvandine> nope
<LaserJock> hmm
<kenvandine> it uses the cached messages first
<kenvandine> well, gwibber-service does do a refresh after it first starts
<LaserJock> I see newer messages right when gwibber starts up
<kenvandine> but not until it is completely up
<kenvandine> and that doesn't block the UI
<LaserJock> weird
<LaserJock> I thought maybe it was because it takes so long to refresh
<kenvandine> and the UI doesn't trigger any refreshing
<chrisccoulson> :-)
<Nafai> pitti: on the mlock/munlock stuff, if I'm going to be updating the dictionary that holds the passwords, would the proper thing to do is clear the dictionary, munlock it, re-do it, and then mlock it?
<LaserJock> it seems like the refreshing happens before the UI gets there
<kenvandine> LaserJock, it likely does if it takes 30s to see the UI
<kenvandine> but that isn't by design
<LaserJock> ok
<kenvandine> it is just because the UI is taking so long to start for you
<LaserJock> hmm, there goes that idea :/
<pitti> Nafai: you need to munlock first, otherwise you'd lose the reference
<pitti> Nafai: do you actually need to update the dict?
<Nafai> when accounts have been added/removed or passwords changed, the dictionary contents will change
<Nafai> hrm.  how to get the size of the dictionary
<Nafai> (memory size)
<Nafai> oh sweet. there's a __sizeof__ method :)
 * kenvandine found it very interesting how easy it was to use ctypes
<pitti> Nafai: you should lock the values only, not the entire dictionary
 * kenvandine just assumed it would be hard :)
<pitti> Nafai: there's no reason why the dictionary should be in a single memory block (and usually it wouldn't)
<Nafai> true
<pitti> kenvandine: it's pretty great
<kenvandine> i have always avoided it because it was intimidating :)
<pitti> Nafai: no need to lock the dictionary hash tables, etc.
<pitti> Nafai: so changing the dictionary shouldn't require locking changes of existing values at all
<Nafai> so, for key in d: mlock(d[key], len(d[key]), ?
<pitti> Nafai: just if you add a key (have string, mlock() it, add it to dict)
<pitti> Nafai: I'd add it right after you read the string from g-k
 * Nafai nods
<Nafai> makes sense
<pitti> it's a bit of a confusing terminology here :)
<pitti> we have keys which are values of a dictionary, which are addressed as keys :)
 * Nafai likes learning new things :)
<pitti> well, actually we shold call the first one "password", not "key", I figure
<pitti> seb128: hm, do you have an example package for gnome-games? I just checked aisleriot, and it looks alright?
<pitti> seb128: language-pack-gnome-de-base has the German help and .omf, and the aisleriot .deb has symlinks to them
<seb128> pitti, gnome-sudoku
<pitti> seb128: ah, thanks
<seb128> pitti, you're welcome!
 * kenvandine goes to eat, bbiab
<hyperair> jcastro: yes, you're right. i'll patch it
<jcastro> hyperair: thanks, great work by the way, I will blog it as soon as I get it!
<pitti> seb128: oh, it's crystal clear -- it would only work for the first binary package in debian/control
<seb128> pitti, so you picked the only game it's working on? ;-)
<pitti> apparently so :)
<pitti> seb128: seems I'm lucky today
<seb128> hehe
 * pitti goes to fill out a lottery ticket
<seb128> I didn't find so many issues in beta2 testing so far, good lucid!
<pitti> good to hear
<rickspencer3> seb128, nice
<seb128> it's good to step out of launchpad flow of bugs sometime
<seb128> just to see that things are actually mostly working
<pitti> works quite well for me, except that the  display gets powered off during boot and I can't see anythign; but *shrug*, minor details :)
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> pitti, Sarvatt hinted I should try to update the bios for my issues
<seb128> I need to find how to do that still, I didn't look at it yet
<pitti> seb128: to me as well
<pitti> but it requires windows or a floppy, allegedly
<seb128> I didn't update bios-es since the time I used msdos floppies
<pitti> I have neither..
<seb128> which seems to be an another century
<pitti> yeah, I wondered why they don't offer USB stick images
<pitti> I wonder if one could actually put the floppy image onto an USB stick :)
<Nafai> pitti: How does this look? http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~nafai/gwibber/gnomekeyring-fix/annotate/head:/gwibber/microblog/util/keyring.py
<didrocks> well, going out for an hour taking fresh airâ¦
<seb128> Sarvatt said he installed freedos on an usb stick
<seb128> pitti, there is firmware-addon-dell too
<seb128> but I'm not sure how it works
<seb128> didrocks, enjoy!
<didrocks> seb128: thanks
<pitti> Nafai: looks good already!
<pitti> Nafai: I'd do two changes:
<pitti> (1) move the mlock() right after value =
<pitti> since the value is passed around a couple of times, and there are different exit paths
<pitti> Nafai: and I'd drop the munlock()
<pitti> Nafai: since you never know when the GC runs, so the old value might stay around for ages, unlocked
<Nafai> true
<pitti> Nafai: I guess free()ing it will unlock it automatically
 * Nafai nods
<pitti> but even if not, it won't take so much space to even come close to your shm limit
<Nafai> ok, this is simpler :)
<pitti> Nafai: thanks!
<Nafai> kenvandine: Okay, I believe that is all of the requested changes from me
<Nafai> Let me know what else I can help with
<pitti> Nafai: looks fine to me now
<Nafai> thx
<hyperair> jcastro: http://paste.debian.net/68037/ <-- could you test this patch please?
<jcastro> qense: do you have time to test this patch?
<jcastro> hyperair: sorry something came up that needs my immediate attention
<hyperair> jcastro: no problem
<pitti> seb128: oh, wow -- gnome-sudoku alone shrinks from 2.5 to 0.3 MB
<pitti> -rw-r--r--  1 martin martin  7222524 2010-04-08 18:31 gnome-games_2.30.0-0ubuntu3_amd64_translations.tar.gz
<pitti> -rw-r--r--  1 martin martin   499250 2010-04-08 18:46 gnome-games_2.30.0-0ubuntu3_static_translations-prev.tar.gz
<pitti> oops, ignore the first one
<pitti> -rw-r--r--  1 martin martin 18329738 2010-04-08 18:56 gnome-games_2.30.0-0ubuntu3_static_translations.tar.gz
<pitti> so, 17.5 MB stripped off all .debs
<pitti> (but we only ship a few games by default)
<Nafai> rickspencer3: btw, sometime this week I could use some discussion from you or pitti or whoever about blueprints, etc
<rickspencer3> Nafai ok
<rickspencer3> can we talk this afternoon?
<kenvandine> thx Nafai
<rickspencer3> like 2pm/3pm for you?
<Nafai> Sure, either is fine with me
<Nafai> kenvandine: np, glad to help.  Fun to write code that is a critical part of this next release :)
<rickspencer3> Nafai, I'll just find you when I get back from my break
<Nafai> sounds good
<rickspencer3> Nafai, kenvandine am I understanding that Gwibber code changes are all done now?
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, almost
<rickspencer3> nice
<kenvandine> i am doing the accounts side now
<rickspencer3> ok
<seb128> pitti, excellent
<rickspencer3> Nafai, kenvandine, pitti, fyi - I asked kees to take a look at the keyring code for gwibber
<pitti> he was just talking to me
<seb128> pitti, I noticed it by looking at CD space use sorted by directory
<rickspencer3> since all of this was started by trying for better security of passwords
<Nafai> seb128: btw, I had a look at bug #553423 and not knowing how the translation stuff works, I'm not sure why that string isn't being translated.  The string in the app indicator using source is identical to the string previously used in the GtkStatusIcon source, and it is using _()
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 553423 in brasero "Untranslated string in menu option of Brasero's tray icon, albeit it's translated in Launchpad" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/553423
<pitti> seb128: I'll upload this on Monday
<pitti> seb128: I don't have the guts of letting it into the archive tomorrow evening :) not again..
<seb128> Nafai, ok, I will have a look later
<seb128> pitti, lol
<rickspencer3> :)
<seb128> pitti, we are likely to unfreeze one day late again?
<pitti> seb128: I don't think so; j/k
 * seb128 hugs pitti
 * pitti hugs back seb128
<pitti> I want lucid to thaw, too
 * pitti piled up 16 "Fix committed" tasks again
<Nafai> Looks like there are a few tools we can employ for gwibber optimizations during the 10.10 dev process: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/110259/python-memory-profiler
<kenvandine> Nafai, cool
<LaserJock> kenvandine: does webkit itself use a lot of memory?
<LaserJock> I was thinking of possibly using it on an app I'm hacking on
<kenvandine> LaserJock, not sure...
<LaserJock> but I would like to keep it light
<kenvandine> i haven't really profiled the UI stuff
<LaserJock> k
<LaserJock> kenvandine: presumably lowering the number of messages displayed would lower the RAM usage?
<qense> jcastro: will test as soon as I'm done with the dishes!
<kenvandine> perhaps
<Damascene> hello, every one is pointing me here. I hope I could get the help I want
<Damascene> https://bugs.launchpad.net/vte/+bug/263822
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 263822 in vte "RTL (right to left) support in terminal (BiDi)" [Low,Triaged]
<Damascene> I want to see if it's possible to replace vte by mtlerm for rtl languages
<Damascene> *mlterm
<LaserJock> rickspencer3: you clearly have too much fun coding :-)
<rickspencer3> heh
<LaserJock> I just wish I could get faster with it
<digital_> houdy
<Nafai> lunch
<LaserJock> I really wish we had python-documentation-snippets or something
<digital_> anyone had any issues with 10.04 locking up about a minute after gnome loads?
<digital_> im trying to track down what is causing it
<digital_> i should say locking up with graphical coruption
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - the firefox startup notification patch has been applied fo FF3.6/XUL192 upstream now
<chrisccoulson> so we will get that when we next update :-)
<jcastro> What's the workflow for getting a design person to look at a desktop bug?
<jcastro> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/indicator-applet/+bug/558581
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 558581 in indicator-applet "Super+m key combo conflicts with default compiz key combo to invert screen" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<Amaranth> jcastro: Didn't I just close that?
<jcastro> the indicator shortcut conflicts with compiz, but it's not clear which one we care about more
<jcastro> Amaranth: did he file one on compiz too?
<Amaranth> Super+m in compiz is used for neg
<jcastro> right, but someone on design or DX picked that for the indicator applet
<Amaranth> jcastro: No, someone else filed a bug saying they want to use super-m for something else
<Amaranth> and super-s, super-x, etc
<Amaranth> I'll mark it as a dupe
<jcastro> thanks
<qense> jcastro: why do we want to change the icon name?
<qense> jcastro: I thought that was an issue that's resolved now. Or is Debian using different icon names for Banshee?
<jcastro> hyperair: ^^
<hyperair> qense: what issue are you talking about?
<qense> hyperair: the patch you asked jorge to take a look at.
<qense> hyperair: it's changing the icon used
<hyperair> qense: yes, it is. to banshee-panel. what's wrong with that?
<qense> we did have a bug a while ago with the icon name, but the icon name in humanity icons was changed
<hyperair> to banshee-panel.
<qense> really?
<hyperair> we can't have banshee's icon everywhere be monochrome.
<qense> I thought vish changed it back to media-player-banshee-panel afterwards because of the bug.
<hyperair> banshee-panel is the monochrome icon
<hyperair> eh?
<hyperair> no, not afaik.
<hyperair> qense: could you do a dpkg -S for it? i don't have a lucid installation
<hyperair> dpkg -S banshee | grep png
<vish> qense: the u-mono icon is banshee-panel, since it is meant for lucid
<vish> qense: the humanity icon is with both names
<qense> ok
<qense> vish: enlighten us: what icon does Banshee use and what icon should it use? Both monochrome and regular.
<qense> vish: Wasn't it something like media-player-banshee?
<hyperair> qense: media-player-banshee for regular, banshee-panel or media-player-banshee-panel for monochrome, iirc.
<vish> qense: it seems to use the banshee-panel icon in Lucid
<qense> really?
<hyperair> qense: banshee.notificationarea uses banshee-panel for monochrome, but appindicator doesn't.
<hyperair> i wrote the patch =\
<vish> yeah.. not sure how it worked though o.0
<vish> there hyperair is the culprit ;p
 * hyperair coughs
<hyperair> vish: you were the one who stuffed it in as banshee-panel! i just followed suite!
<qense> Maybe it happened because MonoChromeIcon wasn't added to the NotificationArea class when we were first trying the appindicator.
<qense> vish: hyperair is probably right here
<qense> :)
<vish> ;)
<hyperair> qense: yaeh, that.
<hyperair> qense: the patch landed very recently
<hyperair> qense: so can you test the patch?
<qense> the monochrome icon was added in 1.5.4 or 1.5.5, wasn't it?
<hyperair> 1.6.0
<qense> I recall the variable to be there already before 1.6.0
<qense> let me look that up
<qense> hyperair: never mind, I was confused with one of the other apps I worked on
<hyperair> me shrugs
<hyperair> er
 * hyperair 
<hyperair> nevermind
<hyperair> sleep deprivation taking its toll
<qense> maybe you should take some sleep :)
<qense> hyperair: I'll take a look at the patch
<hyperair> qense: thanks.
<hyperair> and yeah i'll go get some sleep
<hyperair> do you have bce commit access?
<qense> yes
<kenvandine> Nafai, password changing is working fine and not causing any problems
<kenvandine> however, in testing that i have discovered another bug... which wasn't there before but certainly unrelated
<kenvandine> if you get an auth failure and it raises the error dialog, it causes the cpu to peg
<rickspencer3> dang
<kenvandine> i have a fix :)
<kenvandine> working on it
<rickspencer3> kewl
<kenvandine> if i don't make it call the error dialog via dbus, it is fine
<rickspencer3> I'm taking a break for like an hour
<kenvandine> :)
<rickspencer3> bbl
<kenvandine> ok, good news is the keyring stuff is good to go :)
<qense> jcastro: I've committed hyperair's patch to b-c-e:master.
<damascene> I want to see if it's possible to replace vte by mtlerm for rtl languages
<damascene> https://bugs.launchpad.net/vte/+bug/263822
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 263822 in vte "RTL (right to left) support in terminal (BiDi)" [Low,Triaged]
<chrisccoulson> damascene, no, it's not possible
<damascene> chrisccoulson, may I ask why?
<chrisccoulson> firstly, VTE and mlterm are totally different (VTE is an embeddable terminal widget, used by several applications including gnome-terminal and synaptic)
<chrisccoulson> and mlterm is a stand-alone terminal emulator
<chrisccoulson> and there is no way we are going to port something like gnome-terminal to something other than VTE (if that other something existed) without upstream wanting to do that
<damascene> any thing else?
<chrisccoulson> huh??
<damascene> I mean are these the only reasons or there is something else?
<chrisccoulson> those are the reasons, but they're pretty big reasons IMO
<chrisccoulson> vte and mlterm are no interchangeable at all
<chrisccoulson> they are completely different
<damascene> let me talk about my point of view
<chrisccoulson> well, it doesn't matter what your point of view is. what you want is technically impossible
<damascene> is it possible to just add mlterm by default?
<chrisccoulson> no
<damascene> and why is that, please?
<chrisccoulson> mlterm is part of the gnome-desktop. we're not going to change a default application because one person asked for that
<chrisccoulson> most users use gnome-terminal without any issue
<chrisccoulson> mlterm is unmaintained
<chrisccoulson> it hasn't had a release since 2007
<damascene> well you don't want to accept my opinion what ever it was. and no point of talking to you about it. but because we are in a public channel not private conversation I have to say....
<damascene> 1.mlterm works for us with all the terminal apps. vte doesn't
<damascene> 2. not only me having this problem. all rtl language users too.
<chrisccoulson> well, i've accepted your opinion, but i've just told you why it's not possible ;)
<damascene> 3. mlterm 3.0 have been released months ago
<chrisccoulson> it would be better to convince the vte maintainers to fix that
<damascene> 4.vte maintainer doesn't want to do any thing about it as mentioned on both upstream and launchpad bug
<Nafai> back
<damascene> 5.if it's possible to make mlterm embedded that will be nice. if not that will fix 90% of the problem
<chrisccoulson> well, i suspect that is not possible without a lot of effort, and you'd need to convince the upstream developer to make it embeddable ;)
<LaserJock> I suppose you could include mlterm in the default install or something, but I'm guessing it's too big
<chrisccoulson> in any case, mlterm hardly has the feature parity of gnome-terminal :-/
<chrisccoulson> LaserJock, we don't want 2 applications doing the same thing on the default install
<LaserJock> chrisccoulson: we already do don't we?
<LaserJock> xterm?
<damascene> chrisccoulson, we don't want it on the default install. just when you install Arabic support from the language support in system
<chrisccoulson> damascene, but that's completely different to what you were requesting a few seconds ago
<chrisccoulson> you were asking to replace gnome-terminal / vte with mlterm...
<damascene> you obviously didn't read the bug report :)
<damascene> I want to see if it's possible to replace vte by mtlerm for rtl languages
<chrisccoulson> like i said, it's not possible, as vte and mlterm are 2 completely different things ;)
<damascene> that was my question. sorry wasn't that clear
<chrisccoulson> installing another terminal in addition to gnome-terminal would be possible, but mlterm is not a substitute for vte
<damascene> ok, another question. could we have mlterm installed when we chose to install rtl language support?
<chrisccoulson> damascene, it's possible to install extra applications when installing language support
<kklimonda> damascene: is it a technical question or policital one?
<damascene> chrisccoulson, what should we do to have that done?
<chrisccoulson> but mlterm would need to be in main first (which would mean being reviewed, would have to be actively maintained upstream etc)
<damascene> kklimonda, ubuntu politic question
<damascene> chrisccoulson, tell me what should I do to make that possible
<damascene> ,please.
<chrisccoulson> i'm not too sure about that, without first checking how we do it
<kklimonda> pitti would be a better person to answer this question probably
<damascene> by the way there is someone called yofel want to do the same for the Hebrew calender when Hebrew support installed. and he thinks we could push both mlterm and the calender for the language
<damascene> chrisccoulson, kklimonda , I'm glad I've found someone to answer my question finally. I hope you can guide me on this. I've sent e-mail to ubuntu-desktop but no respond
<chrisccoulson> that's probably not the best list to send it too
<chrisccoulson> ubuntu-devel might be a better list
<damascene> ok thanks for the advice. any thing else I've to do?
<damascene> is piti around?
<chrisccoulson> we do install extra bits for certain languages, but i don't know if that's implemented with dependencies from the launguage packs, or if that is implemented by language-selector itself
<damascene> the language selector is the user?
<kklimonda> chrisccoulson: I'd say that they are implemented with dependendencies but that sounds like a trick. I see that for example language-support-input-ja depends on ibus-anthy to provide input method or whatever it is..
<chrisccoulson> of course
<chrisccoulson> :)
<chrisccoulson> language-selector lets you choose which meta-packages you want to install for each locale
<chrisccoulson> so it would be a dependency on one of the meta-packages
<chrisccoulson> not sure which though
<damascene> and who is the language selector a person from the locale or form ubuntu?
<damascene> sorry for the stupid question. didn't understand your respond well.
<kklimonda> right, it doesn't really fall into any category
<kklimonda> I'd put it into imput methods if I didn't know that it doesn't fit there ;)
<chrisccoulson> language-selector is the tool used to install language support
<damascene> I see but it doesn't provide any choice in the current version
<kklimonda> chrisccoulson: can we even change the default terminal for existing users?
<damascene> you said that you install extra bits for certain languages. can you give me some examples please
<kklimonda> damascene: japanese, chinese and similar languages install packages to enable users to input national characters for example
<damascene> great
<damascene> it's late here. I understand from you that I should contact ubuntu-devs now. any thing else?
<damascene> I've to go in a while
<baptistemm> is there a way to get a previous version of a package, I would need obexd-client 0.21 to test a regression
<kklimonda> damascene: you should send an email to either ubuntu-devel or ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list
<kklimonda> damascene: it's not that urgent as it won't get implemented for 10.04 anyway
<kklimonda> damascene: so we have some time to discuss it with people who actually know how it should be done ;)
<damascene> ok, np
<damascene> thanks all.
<kklimonda> baptistemm: hmm.. maybe it's still available on launchpad?
<kklimonda> baptistemm: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/obexd/0.21-0ubuntu1
<baptistemm> great.. thanks
<jcastro> qense: thanks!
<qense> :)
<czajkowski> should there be an Ubuntu one syn cloud in the menu panel any more ?
<rickspencer3> czajkowski, no
<rickspencer3> the U1 UI is in the Me Menu and nuatilus now
<kenvandine> seb128, can you please sponsor lp:~ubuntu-desktop/gwibber/ubuntu ?
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, just released gwibber 2.29.95 with the keyring fix and a few others :)
<rickspencer3> niiiice
<Nafai> yay!
<seb128> kenvandine, ok
<kenvandine> seb128, thx
<seb128> do we know when lucid will be unfrozen?
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, so what a difference a day can make, huh?
<kenvandine> thank you nafa!
<czajkowski> rickspencer3: cheers, :)
<kenvandine> yup :)
<kenvandine> seb128, i haven't heard
<seb128> btw does anybody get seahorse using cpu there?
<seb128> or gvfs?
<kenvandine> seb128, seahorse
<kenvandine> if you look at the details of a key
<seb128> gnome-keyring upstream replied on the bug asking for details
<kenvandine> while that tab is focused, it chews cpu
<Nafai> man, evolution is sometimes annoying :(
<kenvandine> ROAF noticed that
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i get seahorse using lots of CPU too
<rickspencer3> RAOF, empathy in 10 minutes?
<seb128> how do you trigger it?
<chrisccoulson> but it didn't look like a keyring issue
<seb128> ok
<chrisccoulson> every time i interrupted it in gdb it was deep inside some gtk function
<chrisccoulson> let me try again
<seb128> I think people have been mixed all "software uses gnome-keyring and eat cpu" issues
<chrisccoulson> yeah, possibly
<seb128> ed->ing
<didrocks> well, time to go, good evening everyone!
<seb128> 'night didrocks
<Nafai> didrocks: Later!
<kenvandine> seb128, in seahorse, double click on a key
<kenvandine> then select the details tab
<kenvandine> while that tab is focused seahorse uses a ton of CPU
<kenvandine> selecting a different tab fixes it, i think
<kenvandine> seb128, i was wrong... not a specific tab just having that dialog open
<kenvandine> closing the tab lets the load drop again
<kenvandine> it isn't as dramatic as gwibber, only chews on about 60% for me :)
<seb128> it doesn't seem the same issue
<seb128> as chrisccoulson said it seems rather looping in gtk
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i always get traces that look a bit like this in seahorse: http://paste.ubuntu.com/411242/
<seb128> it's not blocked on a keyring call
<seb128> it's not important enough to be worth spending time learning the code
<seb128> but I will open an upstream bug
<chrisccoulson> yeah, it's not that big an issue really. the CPU usage returns to normal once you close the dialog
<kenvandine> seb128, agreed
<seb128> I think I also figured why gnome-appearance-properties crashes on theme dnd
<seb128> the bug open for years which zillion duplicate of crash in pango calls
<chrisccoulson> oh ?
<chrisccoulson> you figured that out?
<seb128> yes
<chrisccoulson> excellent :)
<seb128> gtk_label_set_text is not thread safe
<rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, is there a bug report for that seahorse thing?
<seb128> I hate threads officially now
<kenvandine> hehe
<chrisccoulson> rickspencer3, i think so (seb128 might know though)
 * kenvandine heads out for a while, bbl
<rickspencer3> seb128, I just finished in ubuntu-app-devel saying *never use threads*
<chrisccoulson> lol
<seb128> rickspencer3, good advice
<chrisccoulson> threads are cool really :)
<rickspencer3> <ia> rickspencer3: what pragmatic practical reasons (against threads)? (just in curiosity)
<rickspencer3> <rickspencer3> bughugger uses AsynchTaskProgressbox a lot if you want to take a look though
<rickspencer3>  well, first, in python, a thread can't be put on it's own processor
<rickspencer3>  but mostly, it just creates lots of bugs
<mclasen> seb128: I fixed that bug in control-center a while ago
<Nafai> rickspencer3: btw, I'm ready whenever to talk about blueprints :)
<seb128> mclasen, it's still happening with 2.30 though
<rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, I think async libraries are cool, but writing your own threads bite
<chrisccoulson> rickspencer3, when i did the low disk space warning in g-s-d, i implemented the trash emptying in a separate thread
<seb128> mclasen, I got valgrind log on stock upstream 2.30 tarballs some days ago
<chrisccoulson> but i cheated a bit there
<rickspencer3> Nafai, ok 10 minutes
<chrisccoulson> (i borrowed it from gnome-applets)
<rickspencer3> hehe
<Nafai> np
<rickspencer3> brb
<mclasen> seb128: well, then maybe there's some missing locking, still
<seb128> mclasen, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=614256
<ubottu> Gnome bug 614256 in Appearance "crashes when installing icon themes by dnd" [Normal,New]
<seb128> mclasen, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=610003 is your bug?
<ubottu> Gnome bug 610003 in Appearance "calls gdk_threads_enter/leave without gdk_threads_init" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<mclasen> seb128: don't know what 'line 147 in this version' refers to
<seb128> mclasen, so file_transfer_dialog_set_prop() might have the same issue
<seb128> mclasen, the valgrind log, the error is
<seb128> ==27164==    by 0x8065761: file_transfer_dialog_set_prop
<seb128> (file-transfer-dialog.c:147)
<seb128> mclasen, it's crashing on file-transfer-dialog.c:147
<chrisccoulson> right, i'm moving in to the lounge for the rest of the evening
<chrisccoulson> bbiab
<asac> seb128: when do you plan last gtk+ and gnome flush?
<seb128> asac, dunno, ask slangasek when he will say no to uploads
<seb128> asac, GNOME 2.30.1 will be late for lucid I think
<seb128> ie after lucid rc freeze
<seb128> so I'm not if we can get it, but we will get uploads until they are stopped
<mclasen> seb128: where is it called from ?
<mclasen> job_progress has locking
<mclasen> so maybe it is getting called from somewhere else without the necessary locking
<seb128> mclasen, http://paste.ubuntu.com/411253/
<mclasen> seb128: well, thats only one thread
<asac> seb128: kk
<seb128> mclasen, http://paste.ubuntu.com/411256/
<seb128> mclasen, sorry I got the wrong call before
<mclasen> seb128: hmm, yeah, obviously not quite enough locking
<RAOF> Good morning.
<RAOF> rickspencer3: You wanted me?
<rickspencer3> hi RAOF
<rickspencer3> did I?
<RAOF> 06:59 <rickspencer3> RAOF, empathy in 10 minutes?
<rickspencer3> oops
<rickspencer3> that was for Nafai
<rickspencer3> too many new people ;)
<Nafai> :)
<RAOF> :)
<Nafai> I was curious when you said that earlier...
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-04-09
<rickspencer3> wow gwibber_messages is a very bid database!
<rickspencer3> kenvandine,  http://theravingrick.blogspot.com/2010/04/todays-slip-cover-feature.html
<pitti> Good morning
<czajkowski> morning
<baptistemm> bonjour
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> seb128: hm, sorry for all the python import warning cron spam -- no idea why it started doing that :-(
<pitti> seb128: but at least it's running reasonably stable now
<seb128> pitti, hello
<seb128> pitti, that's ok, I though you have been restarting a lot when first looking ;-)
 * pitti accepts gnome-games and hopes the new pkgbinarymangler will behave
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<didrocks> hey pitti, seb128
<pitti> bonjour didrocks
<pitti> seb128: meh, seems pkgbinarymangler on i386 buildd was held back and disabled  for some reason
 * pitti pings lamont
<seb128> pitti, :-(
<vish> seb128: hi.. the humanity distribution upload was from last week or from the latest packagers branch..
<vish> ?
<seb128> vish, it was the one you asked me to upload one week ago which didn't get approved before beta2
<vish> hmm .. :(
<seb128> why ":("?
<vish> seb128: well , i fixed a few others bugs in lp as well , after that , expecting them to be uploaded at the same time
<seb128> ?
<seb128> we can still do uploads
<seb128> I don't see the issue and why the ":("
<vish> ah , neat , then no problems
<seb128> what got uploaded was what was in bzr when you asked for upload
<vish> :)
<seb128> I'm sure what else should have happened?
<seb128> ok, good ;-)
<vish> seb128: i thought that was the last possible uplaod for Lucid , obviously i was wrong :)
<seb128> right
<seb128> there is still a week for fixing bugs
<vish> neat.. thanks
<al-maisan> err .. "apt-get dist-upgrade" on the other lucid laptop wants to remove the compiz and compiz-gnome packages. That's not right, is it?
<mvo> al-maisan: no, wait a little bit
<mvo> al-maisan: until a new compiz is build
<al-maisan> mvo: ok .. thanks!
<mvo> seb128: that is the issue btw, metacity breaks older compiz, but new compiz is not the in the archive yet
<seb128> oh ok
<seb128> mvo, thanks
<didrocks> mvo: heh, I guess we ask for rebuilding in the same time (just got i386, you got the others :))
<mvo> didrocks: LP tells me "start in 12h"
<mvo> didrocks: that is pretty bad
<didrocks> mvo: yeah, I saw that too :( I think rescoring could be good if possible
<mvo> I think seb128 has the magic for this
<seb128> those got accepted yesterday night
<seb128> I'm wondering what the buildds have been doing
<seb128> mvo, no, pitti has, slangasek already pinged him about it
<didrocks> seb128: they have been dep wait, we just relaunch the ping
<didrocks> s/ping/build
<seb128> mvo, I've archive admin powers, not buildds
<seb128> didrocks, depwait should automagically work
<seb128> didrocks, it's weird
<seb128> do you depwait on the wrong version?
<pitti> didrocks: what do you need bumped?
<seb128> pitti, compiz
<didrocks> seb128: I checked again, it seems not
<pitti> yes, a failed build due to depwait will reset the build score to 0
<pitti> Rescoring build amd64 to 5000...
<seb128> pitti, danke
<mvo> is LP lying to me? it looks like compiz/i386 is waiting too
<didrocks> pitti: can you do the same for i386, please?
<pitti> already done
<pitti> except that LP timed out on me, bah
<pitti> seems to be on the slow side today :/
<pitti> nope
<pitti> didrocks: I'll keep trying
<didrocks> pitti: thanks
<seb128> why was the updated build-depends needed for there?
<seb128> do you statically use the lib?
<seb128> ie do you need compiz to be "built" with the change
<didrocks> seb128: compiz seems to take some part of the button rendering layout from the -dev. and the patch "13_better_support_for_button_layout.patch" in metacity show that we have weird behavior in compiz if not rebuilt
<seb128> weird
<pitti> . o O { nemiver is really nice }
<seb128> pitti, ;-)
<geser> in which corner should the notifications bubbles show up? because right now I see it show up in the upper left corner for a fraction of a second before it jumps to right corner (but sometimes I have two notifications bubbles for a short time: one in left corner and one in the right corner)
<seb128> didn't change since karmic
<seb128> right corner
<geser> hmm
<seb128> notify-osd code almost didn't change this cycle
<geser> I guess I need to file a bug
<seb128> do you use a multiscreen setup or something?
<geser> yes
<seb128> k, could be it
<geser> I've a dual-screen setup and when there are 2 or more notifications event in the queue, I get two notification bubbles till the last event is shown (tested with notify send)
<pitti> chrisccoulson, fta: wrt. bug 527138, should we just remove enigmail from the archive? it might better suited to install from tbird's extension manager?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 527138 in enigmail "enigmail is uninstallable in lucid, needs update to 1.0 - blocked by missing thunderbird-config" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/527138
<pitti> (tbird should be fine now)
<pitti> seb128: bug 530605 has a million tasks; should they really be all open against lucid? or is the libgnome-keyring fix sufficient?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 530605 in desktopcouch "gvfs-mount doesn't always work. gvfsd-smb starts using 100% cpu." [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/530605
<chrisccoulson> pitti - i'm not sure. i thought we were going to fix that actually (but i need to check)
<seb128> pitti, it has been used as a collector for all cpu eating issues
<chrisccoulson> pitti - should bug 544139 be milestoned? it doesn't appear on the RC bugs, but i'm not sure who it should be assigned to...
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 544139 in consolekit "Active VT tracking can fail at startup" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/544139
<seb128> pitti, I would close it and ask people who still have a bug to open new bugs
<seb128> pitti, the gvfs cpu issue has been fixed in libgnome-keyring or should have been
<pitti> seb128: ack
<seb128> pitti, other bugs are mainly design issue as discussion this way, now that libgnome-keyring uses dbus it runs in new class of interesting issues if used out of the mainloop etc
<seb128> discussion this way -> discussed this week
<pitti> seb128: FYI, I reenabled karmic in the retracers, it's catching up now (it caught up with lucid)
<seb128> \o/ on lucid catching
<seb128> pitti, danke
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I assigned bug 557640 to you, which seems related to the other search engine changes you were working on
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 557640 in firefox "[Lucid Beta2] nrf-003 testcase failed Default "Welcome to Ubuntu" page doesn't appear without connectivity" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/557640
<pitti> chrisccoulson: it sounds like it'd magically fix itself once you switch back to google?
<seb128> pitti, schedule seems tighter than usual this cycle to get GNOME .1 in lucid, is that still something we should count on?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - i'm not sure the switch back to google will fix that
<chrisccoulson> that's probably an issue with ubufox actually
<seb128> pitti, or should we rather play backporting git changes
<seb128> pitti, or do .1 in sru updates?
<pitti> seb128: like hardy, we should probably put point releases into SRUs either way (up to .2 or .3?)
<pitti> seb128: when will .1 be released?
<cassidy> seb128, what's the deadline for a next Empathy stable release?
<seb128> cassidy, wednesday next week
<pitti> seb128: for bugs >= high I'd backport either way
<seb128> if I read the calendar correctly
<cassidy> seb128, ok, I'll release it this afternoon or at the beginning of next week
<pitti> seb128: we can still accept some .1 packages during final freeze (the first week, anyway)
<seb128> pitti, tarballs due on the 26
<pitti> seb128: ugh, that's definitively outside the lucid final range
<pitti> seb128: so, I guess .1 in SRU (so that they'll be in 10.04.1) and backporting important stuff?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - did you recreate bug 557640? it's working as expected here (ie, it redirects to a local start page)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 557640 in firefox "[Lucid Beta2] nrf-003 testcase failed Default "Welcome to Ubuntu" page doesn't appear without connectivity" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/557640
<seb128> right, I wouldn't have asked if it was the week before
<pitti> chrisccoulson: no, I just saw it on the RC bug list
<seb128> pitti, ok, was my though too, I wanted to mention it and check with you
<chrisccoulson> hmmm :-/
<pitti> seb128: thanks
<pitti> seb128: weird; we don't seem to release earlier than usual; does GNOME release later?
<seb128> cassidy, thanks
<pitti> chrisccoulson: if it's not reproducible, set it to incomplete and lower priority
<seb128> pitti, I think they are one week off compared to usual
<seb128> pitti, they did some schedules change for GNOME3
<pitti> seb128: I remember that we usually even uploaded them right after RC
<seb128> ie respinned a bit things around
<seb128> pitti, right, it's usually one week earlier
<seb128> which is tight but doable
<seb128> one week later is out of scope
<seb128> it will avoid the rush before rc
<seb128> which is at least something ;-)
<seb128> hum, lunch ready
 * seb128 bbl
<didrocks> seb128: enjoy
<pitti> seb128: I'm sure people will cry for things like http://git.gnome.org/browse/gvfs/commit/?id=1cb5861795d375719b196ecf93fb0a10397414d3 :-)
<pitti> seb128: I'm happy to do and test git snapshots of gvfs/gdu and some other bits if you want me to
<didrocks> pitti: well, I mean, seeing the price of the iPad, they deserve to see "iPad" as a title :-)
<pitti> kenvandine: can you please update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus for DX/OLS?
<pitti> hm, where is our favourite Kubutu rocker today?
<al-maisan> Is there any chance of getting the enigmail plugin to work with thunderbird3 btw?
<pitti> al-maisan: that's the point of that bug
<al-maisan> pitti: ah, I see.
<didrocks> some users have an unique UNE interface: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/43533691/The%20Blue%20Screenshots.png (that's a bug, still can't find it, he will try with a cleaned /home)
<seb128> pitti, I will review all git changes next week
<seb128> pitti, but I think we should "snapshot" git for some of the things
<seb128> or git diff between stable and current and use that as a patch
<pitti> seb128: yeah, whatever you prefer
<seb128> gvfs being one
<didrocks> seb128: will you need some help for the review?
<pitti> seb128: but usually there are tons of translation updates, so a make distcheck in git trunk seems easier
<seb128> didrocks, I can use help for this yes ;-)
<seb128> pitti, right
 * seb128 dessert and coffee, brb
 * pitti -> lunch
<chrisccoulson> pitti - ok, i reproduced that bug now (i had to clear my cache) ;)
<Laney> is it worth deviating from Debian just to add an lpi patch?
<seb128> Laney, depends
<seb128> Laney, it's the case for quite some GNOME components
<seb128> out of the fact that we package those before debian since we track unstable series where they don't
<Laney> seb128: not this one (gbrainy)
<seb128> robert_ancell wanted to work on an upstream vendor lib
<seb128> which would make those deltas be reduced
<Laney> I'm doing the merge anyway
<Laney> just wondered whether we could sync it instead
<seb128> I've no strong opinion on whether those entries are worth the diff for games
<seb128> I would say it's low cost to keep it for lucid now
<Laney> it needs some porting to the new upstream release
<Laney> lets see if it worked
<seb128> didrocks, how busy are you for lucid? looking to bug to work on still?
<didrocks> seb128: I'm doing nothing important right now (update testing and minor things). So if you have something, I can handle it :)
<seb128> didrocks, would you like to look at the desktop effects option hang issue?
<didrocks> (btw, reinstalling karmic with the old theme seems *so ugly* now :))
<didrocks> seb128: sure, is there a bug report for that?
<didrocks> (noticed that but didn't look at g-c-c bug)
<seb128> yes
<seb128> one with quite some duplicates, let me get the number
<didrocks> seb128: bug #554106 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 554106 in gnome-control-center "Gnome Appearance Properties dialog hangs when changing desktop effects" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/554106
<seb128> right
<seb128> didrocks, you start being faster than me it seems ;-)
 * seb128 hugs didrocks
<didrocks> seb128: I will never be, don't be afraid :)
 * didrocks hugs seb128
<seb128> hey pedro_
<pedro_> bonjour seb128!
<seb128> pedro_, how are you?
<seb128> didrocks, I would not be surprised if that was another sideeffect of gtk-threading there
<pedro_> seb128, good, thanks , what about you?
<seb128> 2.30 had fixes for this which lead to look when things are not hanlded as they should
<seb128> pedro_, I'm good thanks!
<seb128> pedro_, how is lucid looking for you?
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, I just saw "mutex" in the bt and become to be frigthened. Let's take it as a good exercice :)
<seb128> didrocks, hehe
<pedro_> seb128, is looking great here, can't wait for the final release :-)
<pedro_> salut didrocks
<seb128> didrocks, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=614256 too
<ubottu> Gnome bug 614256 in Appearance "crashes when installing icon themes by dnd" [Normal,New]
<didrocks> hey pedro_
<baptistemm> olÃ  Pedro
<didrocks> seb128: yes, I saw you discussed about that yesterday. Having a look too
<seb128> didrocks, obviously the capplet still has locking issues, maybe looking at the recent changes as an inspiration and apply that where it needs to be still done would be a good start
<seb128> didrocks, as you said a good learning experience too if you never looked at such issues ;-)
<pedro_> bonjour baptistemm!
<seb128> lut baptistemm
<baptistemm> salut seb128
<baptistemm> I feel better to have some power to triage all those blueooth bugs
<didrocks> seb128: definitely :)
<kenvandine> pitti, will do
<seb128> bah
<seb128> g-s-d is crash land on launchpad
<seb128> it should really not crash because any of the .so is crashing
<seb128> ie lot of those are due to keyboard or libgnomekbd issues
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i just noticed all those crashes in my inbox :(
<pitti> shouldn't crash> hm, it's all in-process, isn't it?
<seb128> pitti, right, "shouldn"t was a "would be nice if it was redesigned to not be this way"
<chrisccoulson> pitti - ok, we figured out bug 557640 in the end
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 557640 in firefox "[Lucid Beta2] nrf-003 testcase failed Default "Welcome to Ubuntu" page doesn't appear without connectivity" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/557640
<pitti> chrisccoulson: \o/
 * kenvandine hugs rodrigo_ for always using a NEWS file :)
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, I do it because I know you like it :D
<kenvandine> :)
<kenvandine> i wish tedg cared what i liked :)
<rodrigo_> :)
<kenvandine> he makes me guess what's changed
<kenvandine> with ted was around for me to harass :)
<kenvandine> s/with/wish
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, talking about this, do you know how to see the bug# for bzr commits you used 'bzr commit --fixes lp:..." for?
<kenvandine> rodrigo_, nope
<kenvandine> there must be a way though
<rodrigo_> yeah, that's the only thing preventing me from generating NEWS automatically :D
<pitti> it's in bzr log
<pitti> revno: 1757
<pitti> fixes bug(s): https://launchpad.net/bugs/539427
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 539427 in apport "apport-collect gives apport-gtk help" [Low,Fix released]
<pitti> committer: Martin Pitt <martin.pitt@canonical.com>
<pitti> branch nick: trunk
<pitti> [...]
<rodrigo_> pitti, it's in the bzr log of the branch, but not in trunk it seems
<pitti> rodrigo_: ah, it won't be kept across merging, I guess
<rodrigo_> pitti, yeah, seems so, and when doing the release I just branch from trunk
<pitti> rodrigo_: bzr log -n 2 might help
<rodrigo_> seb128, btw, how can I know rhythmbox was started because a device was connected?
<seb128> rodrigo_, it's called with the device as argument on the command line I guess
<seb128> rodrigo_, ie "rhythmbox <device>"
<rodrigo_> seb128, I can't get the command line of rhytmbox from the plugin, except via /proc, afaik, right?
<seb128> rodrigo_, I don't know, better asking on #rhythmbox I guess
<rodrigo_> pitti, ah, cool, that shows it indeed
<chrisccoulson> i'm going to have hardly any bugs left after today!
<kenvandine> pitti, see that mail i sent with the U1 bugs?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: sounds great!
<pitti> kenvandine: didn't get to it yet, sorry
<kenvandine> pitti, no worries... it's a long list
<kenvandine> pitti, should we put anything about those on the release status page?
<kenvandine> or wait until they get targeted ?
<pitti> kenvandine: feel free to add them
<kenvandine> ok, will do
<kenvandine> pitti, put them under RC bugs, Triaged problems?
<pitti> yes
<seb128> chrisccoulson, on a bug fixing rampage today? ;-)
<pitti> go, chrisccoulson, go!
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - the firefox upload which i will do later closes 5 bugs
<seb128> chrisccoulson, do you still have the xulrunner startup notification one on your lucid list btw?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, that's been fixed upstream in the 1.9.2 branch, and will be in the FF3.6.4 update
<pitti> kenvandine: looked at it now -- it's just accepting the nominations? doing that now
<seb128> chrisccoulson, is that coming before lucid?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - that will come as a security update right after lucid
<chrisccoulson> in fact, i'll probably be doing the update from UDS ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, ok, fair enough, still looks weird to have that extra tasklist entry when you start your browser but I guess I'm picky there
<pitti> kenvandine: I expect that we need to drop the milestones for most/many of them; but those can all be fixed in SRUs as well, so the lucid targetting still makes sense
<pitti> kenvandine: ok, all nominations accepted
<kenvandine> pitti, thx
<kenvandine> saving wiki page now
<pitti> kenvandine: hm, you added all of them? only high/critical should be on that list
<pitti> (the release blockers)
<kenvandine> oh... damn
 * kenvandine edits
<pitti> kenvandine: also, since these are by and large done by OLS, I don't think we need to track all of them on our status page
<pitti> (but if it helps you, please do)
<pitti> kenvandine: but usually those have an associated status
<kenvandine> humm... do they have their own status for the release meeting?
<pitti> usually yes, so that we can see at a glance where we are
<pitti> i. e. which ones are well on track (some are also "fix committed" upstream, btw), which ones are difficult because they lack reproducers, etc.
<kenvandine> pitti, ok moved the fixed committed ones and dropped < high
<kenvandine> also FYI, the desktopcouch run_couchdb() bug is not fixed
<kenvandine> bug 530541
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 530541 in desktopcouch "desktopcouch-service crashed with RuntimeError in run_couchdb()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/530541
<kenvandine> chad is working on it still, he thought it was fixed, but not so much :/
<pitti> kenvandine: yes, I thought I said so on the wiki page
<kenvandine> you did
<kenvandine> just making sure that wasn't stale info :)
<kenvandine> it really is still broken
<pitti> kenvandine: thanks for the info
<chrisccoulson> pitti - is there any way to avoid uploading a tarball again when uploading a new revision of a package with dput?
<chrisccoulson> (i should probably know the answer to that already)
<chrisccoulson> but uploading 50MB tarballs takes a long time
<pitti> chrisccoulson: not with dput, but you can specify -sd on debuild or dpkg-buildpackage
<chrisccoulson> pitti - oh, i didn't know that. i'll give that a try, thanks
<pitti> chrisccoulson: you can also drop it from the source_changes an re-debsign
<pitti> (if building the source takes long)
<chrisccoulson> building the source doesn't take long, but uploading the 50MB tarball that i only uploaded a week ago takes a long time ;)
<chrisccoulson> heh, that was much quicker
<chrisccoulson> about 3 seconds :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, does uploading a new revision with tarball work?
<pitti> yes, it does, as long as it's identical
<seb128> usually you get an error saying the tarball is already there no?
<seb128> oh ok
<seb128> I didn't do that for years
<seb128> I though it would complain that you try to overwrite the tarball ;-)
<seb128> I've a sucking ul, I avoid uploading tarballs twice ;-)
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, it works. i always did that before just because i didn't know how to do it without the tarball ;)
<chrisccoulson> but that's ok for small tarballs
<chrisccoulson> but for 50MB firefox uploads, it's not so great ;)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: the default behaviour should be quite fine
<pitti> i. e. with tar for -1 and -0ubuntu1, and without tar otherwise
<pitti> chrisccoulson: wow, you rock (just read the changelog)
<chrisccoulson> pitti - heh, it got a few bugs closed :)
 * pitti updates https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus for the one RC bug
<seb128> chrisccoulson, nice update indeed ;-)
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine: bug #559151 may become a heavy duplicate bug soon.  Introduced in Gwibber with the 2.29.95.0ubuntu1 just released (sorry if you're not the gwibber guy)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 559151 in gwibber "gwibber-service crashed with KeyError in get_records()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/559151
<seb128> pitti, when is the meeting today?
<seb128> pitti, dst changes confused my calendar
<pitti> seb128: just started
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, looking
<pitti> seb128: but our turn is still some 45 to 60 minutes out
<Nafai> Good morning guys
<pitti> good morning Nafai, how are you?
<Nafai> pretty well
<seb128> pitti, right, I'm just hanging there, end of week mood now :p
<seb128> hey Nafai
<bcurtiswx> hi Nafai
<pitti> seb128: speaking of good moods: http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html :-)
<pitti> really nice
<seb128> waouh
<didrocks> good :)
<bcurtiswx> that is nice
<pitti> so, lamont fixed the buildd chroots, let's give gnome-games another spin
<seb128> pedro_, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/528299
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 528299 in nautilus "nautilus crashed with SIGSEGV in g_mount_spec_match_with_path()" [Medium,Triaged]
<seb128> pedro_, did you bug watch the wrong bug?
<pedro_> seb128, let me check
<seb128> pitti, nice! what was the issue on the buildd?
<pitti> seb128: yes, pkgbinarymangler is on hold and only gets updated manually
<pitti> seb128: there were two catastrophes within 4 weeks, and both outside lamont's core hours :)
<seb128> I see
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, ok, testing a fix
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine: good, thank you
<pedro_> seb128, all fixed now, thank you for checking ;-)
<seb128> pedro_, np, thanks
<pitti> chrisccoulson: you don't happen to have an updated idea about bug 447431 yet, do you?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 447431 in gnome-desktop "gnome-settings-daemon dies with BadMatch" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/447431
<chrisccoulson> pitti - not yet, i thought the upstream change would have fixed the crash
<chrisccoulson> pitti - i'll see if i can still reproduce that in a bit
<pitti> chrisccoulson: ah, you could in the past?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: if not, perhaps you can arrange ssh access to slangasek's machine
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, it crashed for me before
<pitti> it's a good SRU candidate, too, though
<pitti> chrisccoulson: just mentioning in case you run out of RC bugs :)
<chrisccoulson> pitti - i don't think i'll run out, but my list of assigned bugs is quite a bit shorter than it was this morning :)
<seb128> bah this g-c-c hand on desktop effects change is weird
<seb128> I'm wondering if that's another gtk locking issue similar to the crasher on theme dnd
<mclasen> seb128: did you look more into that ?
<Nafai> Has anyone filed a bug about the latest metacity?  I can't use alt-space to bring up the window menu and I get the following output in ~/.xsession-errors: http://paste.ubuntu.com/411659/
<seb128> mclasen, didrocks is trying to look into it right now
<seb128> mclasen, I'm wondering if it would not be easier to just do the theme install in an callback
<seb128> or in a idle function or something
<seb128> but that's maybe because I don't know how to debug locking issues
<didrocks> I confirm that reverting this commit (http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-control-center/commit/?id=e34e6b4eebbb957107e88334faef2ed8a02d5eea) workaround the lock issue
<seb128> shrug
<didrocks> I still don't see why, we have one thread, not twoâ¦ it's certainly a code path where a lock isn't freed before we try to get a new lock
<mclasen> didrocks: 'the lock issue' ? are you seeing deadlocks ?
<seb128> mclasen, our "desktop effects" is an extra tab in the same capplet, and it locks when closing the dialog displayed after wm change now
<seb128> it being the capplet
<didrocks> mclasen: the hang in selecting the desktop effect seems to be due to a deadlock
<mclasen> of course, removing the locking will 'prevent' the deadlocks
<didrocks> mclasen: it was for checking that the those locks were the one to blame there
<didrocks> not a solution, for sure
<mclasen> does your code ever take the gdk lock ?
<seb128> no
<seb128> mclasen, the code is basically the same as your desktop-effects one was some cyles ago
<seb128> we didn't resync on what you did since but it was inspired of it
<seb128> mclasen, we have a gtk_dialog_run() after selecting the option in the dialog
<seb128> + a gtimeout for the default choice
<seb128> and the capplet freezes when clicking on one of the buttons
<chrisccoulson> if you need any help looking at this, then just let me know. i might have slightly more free cycles now ;)
<pitti> seb128: our turn now, in case you want to join the meeting and bring up the thawing?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, we do yes
<seb128> neither me of didrocks have experience with those locking issues
<seb128> pitti, ok
<didrocks> so, removing only the gdk_threads_{enter,leave} don't fix that gdk_threads_init (); has to be removed too
<seb128> pitti, let me know when,if I should speak up there ;-)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: ^ in capplets/appearance/appearance-main.c
<pitti> seb128: the guys are just digesting my reports
<chrisccoulson> didrocks - ok, thanks. i will take a look at that shortly and see if i can figure it out
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: I'll just give a quick look at the path we take from your patch to see if we recall the function making the gdk_threads_init call
<seb128> chrisccoulson, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=614256 too
<ubottu> Gnome bug 614256 in Appearance "crashes when installing icon themes by dnd" [Normal,New]
<seb128> chrisccoulson, if you feel like looking at it
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - ok, thanks :)
<pitti> seb128: new gnome-games built, and got a nice diet :)
<seb128> pitti, \o/
<didrocks> bah, I don't see how gdk_thread_init() can be called twice (the first being at the capplet initialization) :/
<didrocks> well, we have two process during the hang, maybe the second one?
<seb128> didrocks, want a change from that while chrisccoulson look at it?
<seb128> didrocks, you can do the empathy update if you want ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, at least, I will have the impression to do something useful :)
<didrocks> seb128: ok, on it!
<pitti> bryceh: there are still three beta-2 WIs left on https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-xorg-multitouch -- do you know whether they are on track?
<pitti> four, actually; I moved them to final
<pitti> good night and nice weekend everyone!
 * pitti goes to prepare for his wife moving to Munich tomorrow for her summer internship
<seb128> pitti, same, enjoy!
<seb128> pitti, oh, good luck and say hello to her too ;-)
<pitti> will do
<didrocks> pitti: enjoy your week-end!
<didrocks> grr, empathy code changed a lot and that's the second patch that doesn't apply at all
<seb128> :-(
<seb128> didrocks, I didn't know that when I gave you the update, sorry about it
<didrocks> seb128: no pb, I just try to not break everything but as I don't really know the notification and indicator patches, I'll probably ask for a double check
<seb128> pedro_, bug #559205 or similar are probably users who uninstalled compiz by dist-upgrading earlier today when it was not installable
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 559205 in gedit "Title bar missing from all windows" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/559205
<pedro_> seb128, okay, will check that with the reporters, thanks!
<didrocks> the NotificationData structure has been removed and we use it quite heavily in our patch
<seb128> didrocks, check with cassidy or kenvandine if they have an hint maybe there?
<didrocks> right
<seb128> cassidy, not nice to do architectural changes in stable updates :p
<mclasen> seb128: well, thats what you sign up for when you patch the world...
<seb128> mclasen, right ;-)
<didrocks> cassidy: kenvandine: empathy 2.30.0.1 removed NotificationData which is heavily used in both our indicator and notification patch. What do you think? Should we reintroduce them (commit db7ff361a82a72d0bcef94c82877ffc1e783e8ee in upstream git)?
<seb128> we tried to get that change upstream but everybody disagrees on how compiz should be actived or not etc
<seb128> mclasen, oh, speaking about the empathy change? my note was about the desktop effect change
<didrocks> well, let's do something easy now. Updating metacity :)
<Nafai> didrocks: Hopefully it will fix the bug I found this morning! :)
<didrocks> Nafai: right clicking on the window bar? for some users, that crashes
<chrisccoulson> hmmmm, my buttons have re-ordered themselves since i updated today :-/
<Nafai> didrocks: no, alt-space no longer works
<didrocks> Nafai: didn't saw that in upstream git
<chrisccoulson> that might explain why i keep closing windows accidentally when i try to maximise them
<Nafai> http://paste.ubuntu.com/411659/ <- I get this in ~/.xsession-errors
<didrocks> Nafai: yeah, it's related so
<seb128> chrisccoulson, right, theme updates, close in the corner is what lucid will use
<Nafai> lunching
<kenvandine> didrocks, eek
<didrocks> kenvandine: well, you know this patch more than I, let's wait for cassidy reply?
<kenvandine> i wonder why they removed it
 * kenvandine is cloning
<kenvandine> didrocks, it might not be a big deal, i'll look at it after lunch
 * kenvandine just uploaded fix for the gwibber first run bug... whew
 * kenvandine runs out to lunch
<didrocks> kenvandine: enjoy
<didrocks> taking my dinner now
<seb128> dinner!
<alphaelectric> Hi there
<seb128> weekend now, have fun everybody
<didrocks> have a good week-end seb128!
<seb128> didrocks, thanks, you too!
<kenvandine> didrocks, i have updated the patch for empathy
<didrocks> kenvandine: sweet, what did you do?
<kenvandine> didrocks, gonna do some testing before upload though
<kenvandine> dropped all the NotificationData stuff
<kenvandine> it wasn't that bad
<didrocks> kenvandine: so, no more NotificationData? it wasn't used?
<kenvandine> not really
<kenvandine> we were using it to get references to EmpathyChat
<kenvandine> but we don't need to
<kenvandine> and now we don't have to free as much stuff
<kenvandine> so probably better
<didrocks> what is the EmpathyChat object?
<didrocks> (sorry, not familiar with that stuff)
<kenvandine> the reference to the chat
<kenvandine> like which chat to raise
<kenvandine> etc
<kenvandine> so a couple places i had to change args from cb_data->chat to chat
<didrocks> and so, the indicator used that to be able to raise the right chat window?
<kenvandine> yeah
<didrocks> oh, you still have the reference so
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> i don't think it used to
<kenvandine> had to get it from NotificationData
<kenvandine> but that seems to have been ported
<didrocks> understood, sweet :)
<kenvandine> the indicator stuff all just piggy backs off notifications
<didrocks> right, I saw that. It's just difficult to dive into this if you don't have any reference :/
<crimsun> pitti: the delaying of PA startup has revealed a race in two PA modules that now result in some desktop sessions falling back to a dummy/null sink, i.e., inaudible audio by default. I'm unsure whether to milestone it, but it is a rather poor user experience.
<chrisccoulson> didrocks - ok, this gnome-appearance-properties locking is giving me a headache ;)
<crimsun> pitti: this is bug 557421
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 557421 in pulseaudio "module-udev-detect races with module-default-device-restore" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/557421
<chrisccoulson> i won't sleep now until it is fixed though
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: please, take some sleep :)
<didrocks> (I will have some soon ^^)
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, i can't now i've started looking at it ;)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: I'm particularly interested in the way you will debug/solve this, as a case study :)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: you see, there are two process?
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, i haven't figured out the best way of debugging it yet, but when i have, i will let you know ;)
<didrocks> sweet :)
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, there's 2 processes?
<chrisccoulson> i see a single thread in gdb
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: yeah, when it hangs
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: so do I
<didrocks> but ps aux | grep gnome-app
<didrocks> you will see two processes, one being the son of the other
<chrisccoulson> 1 second, i will just break on fork
<didrocks> (I tried to add some g_printf() before the gdk_thread_init())
<chrisccoulson> ah
<didrocks> but it seems just to be used by the parent process on window initialization
<chrisccoulson> one process is for the thumbnailing
<didrocks> ah, ok
<didrocks> how did you see that?
<chrisccoulson> didrocks - http://paste.ubuntu.com/411799/
<chrisccoulson> that's a guess anyway ;)
<chrisccoulson> if it doesn't exec() another binary, then it will keep the same process name
<didrocks> ok, "catch fork", right?
<chrisccoulson> break fork
<didrocks> never new the difference :)
<didrocks> knew*
<chrisccoulson> oh, i'm not sure if there's a difference either ;)
<chrisccoulson> i never used catch before
<didrocks> there are "catchpoints" and "breakpoint"
<didrocks> "A catchpoint is another special breakpoint that stops your program when a certain kind of event occurs"
<Nafai> Hi guys, I'm back around if anyone needs me.  Kind of was ill for a bit during lunch.
<didrocks> seems like a breakpoint to me :)
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, yeah, it seems similar
<kenvandine> didrocks, uploaded....
 * kenvandine heads out for a bit
<kenvandine> :)
<chrisccoulson> hey Nafai, i hope you feel better now ;)
<didrocks> kenvandine: sweet :)
<Nafai> yeah, I do, thanks
<didrocks> Nafai: hey, time for week-end to me. If you don't know what to do, you can still read some triaging guide stuff and look at incoming bugs on UNE ;)
<didrocks> me -> tired -> week-end -> will connect a little this week-end
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: think to sleep ;)
<Nafai> thanks, I might do that a bit.  I've got a bug to look at in the meantime
<Nafai> have a great weekend
<didrocks> thanks Nafai  ;) you too!
<chrisccoulson> didrocks - i'm trying to figure out if i can get gdb to break when this particular mutex is locked/unlocked
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: in fact, it should be the same, you can't break on "event"
<didrocks> so, I guess it's an alias for those case
<chrisccoulson> i'm not too sure how to do that yet, but i'm having a go with watch / rwatch on various memory locations at the moment
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: in fact, if you want it to hang, you can even removed the locks, just keep gdk_thread_init()
<didrocks> remove*
<chrisccoulson> setting a watch on mutex->__data.__lock seems to be what i want to get gdb to break at the right place
<chrisccoulson> didrocks - ok, now i've seen it with my own eyes in GDB (it attempts to lock the mutex when it's already locked)
<chrisccoulson> i just need to figure out how it happens now :-/
<chrisccoulson> it doesn't look like there's any other threads involved
<chrisccoulson> ok, time for some ice cream, i will carry on debugging that in a bit
<chrisccoulson> didrocks - fixed it :-)
<chrisccoulson> didrocks - it seems that gtk_dialog_run needs to be guarded by a gdk_threads_enter/gdk_threads_leave (just like gtk_main, which also runs a main loop)
<chrisccoulson> anyway, i really am going to get some food this time :)
<mclasen> any gtk call needs to be protected by gdk_threads_enter
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-04-10
<chrisccoulson> mclasen - i don't have to do that for every call though do i? eg, if i make some gtk calls in a callback triggered from some gtk event, i will already have the gdk lock won't i?
<mclasen> right
<chrisccoulson> in this case though, the gtk calls are coming from a callback registered with g_timeout_add
<chrisccoulson> so it's not protected already
<mclasen> the threads docs in gdk spells it out
<mclasen> idles, timeouts and the like are outside the lock
<mclasen> signals are inside
<chrisccoulson> mclasen, so, the sanest way would probably be for me to drop the g_timeout_add, and use gdk_threads_add_timeout?
<mclasen> thats one way to do it
<chrisccoulson> that's probably the way that requires the minimum effort from me right now :)
<chrisccoulson> mclasen - thanks anyway
<Sarvatt> anyone have a repeatable way to trigger one of these "_XAllocID: Assertion `ret != inval_id' failed" assertions that are happening?
<asac> anyone running karmic?
<czajkowski> lordie some update broke stuff on  lucid, I've no buttons now!
<asac> 21:47 < asac> any apps using online/offline from NM besides empathy and epiphany?
<asac> pidgin i guess too ;)
<asac> does gwibber use such a feature?
<asac> hmm kenvandine not here ;)
<desrt> geesh guys
<desrt> enough package updates?!
 * desrt files a complaint with the appropriate authority
<desrt> didrocks: hey?
<mclasen> asac: weather applet, clock applet, evo
<desrt> didrocks: just a poke to make sure that the valac update doesn't get dropped because of the (now past) beta freeze
<asac> mclasen: thanks
<jcastro> asac: last I checked gwibber did use nm
<jcastro> asac: I'll find out for sure
<jcastro> asac: ryan says "sort of", I guess ken disabled it because it wasn't working right
<asac> heh. ok
 * hyperair wonders whether it's considered a bug if entering too many characters into gnome-screensaver's password prompt can drive the system to oom
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-04-11
<didrocks> desrt: hey, no, it wasn't. did you saw pitti's comment? I can testbuild it, but I have no testcase to ensure it works well with the package built with our toolchains. Do you want me to provide you a package in my ppa or a simple testapp?
<desrt> didrocks: i'm confused.
<desrt> you require me to test it in order to OK that it works?
<didrocks> desrt: well, pitti required to build the debian package on a ubuntu system (to use our toolchain) to ensure it works then
<didrocks> desrt: if you want, I can provide you one in my ppa if you can gain some time there
<desrt> my interest was to have it available in the distribution itself for the benefit of others
<desrt> i'm likely to install the git version, myself
<didrocks> sure, I know that :) I can test it myself if you can just give me a simple way to test it to ack it works
<desrt> the best way would be to build it with itself
<didrocks> desrt: oh, sorry, you speak about valac
<desrt> hah
<desrt> were we having one of those conversations? :)
<didrocks> desrt: right, I was thinking about syncing from debian the new binding you want to use for dconf
<didrocks> :)
<desrt> ah. don't worry about 0mq
<didrocks> sorry about that
<desrt> it's not nearly as much of a concern as valac
<didrocks> yeah, for valac, njpatel will give it some tests as it seems to break their launcher
<didrocks> if they can workaround it on Monday, I'll upload it
<desrt> ok.  nice.
<desrt> if you need help with that, let me know
<didrocks> so, no, I didn't forgot, it's just in progress :)
<didrocks> desrt: sure, thanks
<desrt> with zeromq, if i end up using it, i can just have it in my own ppa
<desrt> since dconf will obviously be in ppa too, that's not so bad
<didrocks> desrt: well, make sense, let's sync it for maverick so
<desrt> great
<didrocks> sorry for the confusion :)
<desrt> heh.  no problem.
<desrt> <- too early
<desrt> just got up to catch a flight :p
<didrocks> oh, where are you going to?
<desrt> boston
<didrocks> nice, is it the dconf/gsettings hackfest?
<desrt> yup
<didrocks> sweet, have fun there!
<desrt> so.  google as default search engine?
<jpds> desrt: Yes.
<desrt> they finally caved to canonical's demands?
<TheMuso> Good morning.
<RAOF> Good moring!
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-04-04
<tjaalton> uh, so audio doesn't really work when there are more than one users logged on
<tjaalton> the first user can choose which output to use, others not so much
<TheMuso`> tjaalton: Any of your users in the audio group?
<tjaalton> TheMuso`: both
<TheMuso`> I suggest you remove them from the audio group then.
<tjaalton> oh?
<tjaalton> shouldn't this be handled on upgrades then?-)
<TheMuso`> Yes, the use of consolekit by pulseaudio means that the audio group only hinders audio working for more than one user.
<tjaalton> ok, good to know
<TheMuso`> Its been this way for ages.
<tjaalton> this is an old install
<TheMuso`> Right.
<TheMuso`> I don't think the policy is to remove users from groups on upgrade.
<TheMuso`> Or add them etc.
<TheMuso`> And I am not even sure how one could reliably check for this on upgrade either.
<didrocks> good morning
<tjaalton> the janitor-thingy might do it
<RAOF> didrocks: Good mornin'
<TheMuso`> tjaalton: Good thought. I'll put it down as something to investigate next cycle.
<tjaalton> TheMuso`: great, thanks
<tjaalton> TheMuso`: oh, I know why the users were on those groups.. it's the users and groups admin capplet
<TheMuso`> Ah yes.
<TheMuso`> That should be fixed in rrecent Ubuntu versions.
<tjaalton> I'll try ;)
<tjaalton> to see if it's true
<tjaalton> didrocks: unity-window-decorator doesn't want to start on display !:0.0 on the first start, is there a bug filed already?
<tjaalton> (unity-window-decorator:20170): Gtk-WARNING **: cannot open display: :0.0
<tjaalton> compiz --replace fixes that
<didrocks> tjaalton: yeah, it's filed and on the top priority list
<tjaalton> didrocks: cool
<tjaalton> TheMuso`: nu-uh, still adds the user to the audio-group when I tick the box and apply
<TheMuso`> tjaalton: Is this natty?
<tjaalton> TheMuso`: yes
<TheMuso`> And what box are you talking about being ticked?
<tjaalton> select the users, click on "additional settings", then "user rights" tab and there select the "can use audio devices" box
<TheMuso`> Right, that box should go away entirely I think...
<tjaalton> and a whole bunch of others
<TheMuso`> I.e for the moment, that shouldn't even be checked, because everyone can use audio regardless of whether that is checked or not.
<tjaalton> yep
<pitti> Good morning
<TheMuso`> Good morning pitti.
<didrocks> hey pitti
<didrocks> vish: small question, on bug #721121. Shouldn't the icon "user-home" in humanity be the one with the folder drawn?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 721121 in humanity-icon-theme "Icon in Launcher should be home folder icon" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/721121
<vish> didrocks: hi, nope.. :)
<didrocks> vish: what's the meaning of that lonely icon? ;)
<vish> didrocks: i already mentioned on the other bug; but i guess mark is reading only unity bug mail :D
<didrocks> vish: let me look at the links then
<didrocks> (still through the 800 messages of unity bugmails this week)
<vish> didrocks: in short; user-home being a folder is not important; its the same higher level folder as / or any media
<didrocks> vish: oh ok, make sense
<didrocks> hum, adding a new desktop file seems to be the only solution
<popey> morning
<didrocks> bryceh: love it https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/747014/comments/4
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 747014 in unity "Wanda is gone from unity" [Critical,In progress]
<rodrigo_> morning
<bryceh> didrocks, :-)
<cdbs> rodrigo_: Hi, can I try packaging Gdm 2.91 for the GNOME3 PPA?
<cdbs> rodrigo_: or have you begun it already?
<rodrigo_> cdbs, no, please go
<rodrigo_> cdbs, although 3.0.0 is due today, so wait a bit and package that
<cdbs> rodrigo_: thanks!
<rodrigo_> I am doing gnome-tweak-tool now
<cdbs> rodrigo_: Weren't the tarballs due for tomorrow?
<cdbs> so that they can release on Wednesdat
<cdbs> *Wednesday
<rodrigo_> cdbs, today at 23:59 UTC
<cdbs> Riddell: hmm
<cdbs> Riddell: oops, unping, meant for rodrigo_
<rodrigo_> cdbs, but yes, I guess you can start doing 2.91.x and then just update to 3.0 when it's done
<cdbs> rodrigo_: yeah, that's what I am doing already
<rodrigo_> ok cool
<cdbs> rodrigo_: though GDM can be a tough task
<rodrigo_> yes
<cdbs> its a base thing
 * cdbs downloads current gdm deb so that he can deal with failures
<rodrigo_> cdbs, look at debian, I guess they have already packaged it, so it should be easier
<cdbs> oh they did? nice!
<rodrigo_> not sure, check it
 * cdbs looks at experimental
<cdbs> rodrigo_: nope, they didn't
<rodrigo_> ah :(
<cdbs> they have 2.20
<cdbs> too old
<rodrigo_> yes
<Laney> look at gdm3
<cdbs> Laney: gdm3 is 2.30, again old
<Laney> less old :-)
<Laney> anyway, it might make sense if you ask on their irc and coordinate efforts
<rodrigo_> yes
<tjaalton> resizing gnome-terminal doesn't show the terminal size anymore with compiz on natty, but can't find a bug filed against g-t, is it filed elswhere?
<rodrigo_> cdbs, as you said, gdm is tricky so if you can get help from them, it will be easier for you
<cdbs> rodrigo_: well, yeah, but most of the tricky part is ubuntu-specific stuff like upstart files and ubuntu patches
<rodrigo_> cdbs, right
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<RAOF> chrisccoulson: Aloha!
<chrisccoulson> hi RAOF!
<RAOF> I had something to ask you about the unity freeze you were seeing.  What was itâ¦?
<RAOF> Oh, yes!
<RAOF> Have you reproduced it with drm.debug=0x01 (as mentioned on the bug)?
<chrisccoulson> ah, i've not tried it just yet
<RAOF> Is it still easily reproducible?
<chrisccoulson> i'll reboot in a but with that, and see if it happens again today
<chrisccoulson> yeah, it happened 4 or 5 times yesterday
<chrisccoulson> so i should be able to get the information quite quickly ;)
<didrocks> hum, nautilus and evolution crashing
<didrocks> ok, shouldn't be that, almost no app opens
<seb128> hey desktopers
<seb128> didrocks, what did you do to your box?
<RAOF> chrisccoulson: Handy hint: echo 0x0e | sudo tee /sys/module/drm/parameters/debug
<didrocks> seb128: something evilâ¦ upgrading ;)
<didrocks> all was going well since morning (for the last 3 hours), then, I decided to upgrade and reboot :)
<chrisccoulson> RAOF, thanks!
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<seb128> hey pitti, how are you?
<pitti> seb128: pretty well, thanks! the WE was splendid, wholly new feeling to sweat :)
<pitti> we had 22 degrees and all sun
<RAOF> chrisccoulson: That's going to fill the kernel ringbuffer pretty quickly and start eating /var.  Just in case you wonder why you've run out of disk space :)
<pitti> and I started packing and disassembling furniture
<chrisccoulson> RAOF, yeah, i noticed it's quite verbose ;)
<seb128> weather was great on a saturday here as well
<seb128> but it was raining yesterday
<seb128> pitti, when do you move?
<pitti> seb128: probably around end of April
<pitti> seb128: we have some appointments for visiting flats now
<seb128> ok
<seb128> pitti, oh btw I'm just catching up with emails, that nautilus abort bug... some users said in a duplicate it happens only when liboverlay-scrollbar is installed
<pitti> seb128: the one comment I saw was having dropbox
<didrocks> evolution crashed with SIGSEGV in os_pager_move_resize()
<seb128> it's not dropbox, it's the scrollbars
<cassidy> bcurtiswx, seb128: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=646555 has loads of duplicates. Would be good to cherry pick the fix to the natty package
<ubot2> Gnome bug 646555 in Contact List "empathy crashed with SIGSEGV in event_manager_add" [Major,Resolved: fixed]
<didrocks> ok, scrollbars, bye
<seb128> hey cassidy, I was going to check on that today since the retracer has closed quite some duplicates of it recently it seems
<seb128> didrocks, is that the scrollbars leading to crashes for you?
<didrocks> seb128: just a guess, all gtk apps seems weirdly crashyâ¦
<didrocks> an seeing this stackâ¦
<didrocks> let's have a try
<pitti> seb128: hm, I don't even see that package -- it's from a PPA?
<pitti> seb128: oh, is that the new DX shiny scrollbars?
<seb128> pitti, yes
<seb128> it's in a ppa and in NEW
<seb128> pitti, see bug #748552
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 748552 in ayatana-scrollbar "With liboverlay-scrollbar installed nautilus crashes with SIGABRT in __kernel_vsyscall()" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/748552
<rodrigo_> hey seb128
<seb128> hey rodrigo_
<chrisccoulson> hi pitti, didrocks, seb128, did you have a good weekend?
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson, morning rodrigo_
<rodrigo_> and yes, hi chrisccoulson, pitti, didrocks and all :)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: indeed we had, thanks! was splendid and warm spring weather here
<didrocks> hey chrisccoulson! Excellent, thanks ;) week-end in family, long walks and such ;)
<didrocks> hey rodrigo_
<RAOF> chrisccoulson: Oh, also on the unity freeze thingy - to give a little more evidence that my hypothesis is correct could you attach gdb to X and check that it's blocked waiting for input rather than in some other point?
<seb128> didrocks, did you figure what is causing your crashes?
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, the overlay scrollbar, but I had an old version
<didrocks> in fact I packaged one of the first version, install them to test, and such
<seb128> didrocks, ok
<didrocks> then, I removed the ppa and switch to natty gtk which didn't load it
<didrocks> untilâ¦ this upgrade :)
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> it shows that the gtk update works at least ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, let's tell it that way :p
<vish> seb128 or didrocks : can you sponsor the compiz SRU debdiffs to -proposed Â» Bug 438868 ?  (trying to get them in before pitt-i makes his SRU rounds)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 438868 in compiz "Numerous applications have focus issues after emerging from a screensaver or suspend" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/438868
<seb128> vish, hey
 * vish reminds seb128; chrisccoulson is not a core-dev yet.. make him apply! ;)
<seb128> compiz should be in the destkop set
<chrisccoulson> lol
<chrisccoulson> yeah, it is, but i'm not sure i can upload it in lucid though. i've had trouble uploading lucid SRU's before ;)
<seb128> well, he has written his wikipage, I need to put a nice comment on there btw
<seb128> what about just trying?
<seb128> it should work
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i'll try it in a few minutes
<vish>  thanks.. :)
<chrisccoulson> it would be nice to get that fixed, it's driving jo crazy now she's using firefox 4 ;)
<chrisccoulson> pitti - did you put your gnome-python-extras package split anywhere? (the one which didn't build)
<chrisccoulson> i can try it again and upload it if you like
<seb128> chrisccoulson, btw should be try to get tracker 0.10 synced from debian or something,
<seb128> ?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: it's just what is in current bzr, plus http://paste.ubuntu.com/589195/
<seb128> it seems like that's the sort of things where we should better get the current serie
<pitti>  that seemed the easiest way of disabling a package
<pitti> chrisccoulson: ah, you mean it should build with the updated firefox now?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i don't mind. i haven't tried it yet (i haven't looked at tracker in ages)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I uploaded packagekit, that works great now
<chrisccoulson> it probably would be good to have though
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, i fixed the xulrunner SDK now
<chrisccoulson> thanks for uploading packagekit
<chrisccoulson> pitti - i'm just building icedtea-web now (but i can't upload that one)
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, ha, i just saw a screenshot from a few weeks ago, and thought that unity has definitely progressed a long way since then: http://people.canonical.com/~chrisccoulson/baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.png
<seb128> nice!
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: excellent :)
<rodrigo_> chrisccoulson, :-)
<chrisccoulson> heh :)
<chrisccoulson> pitti - would you mind sponsoring http://people.canonical.com/~chrisccoulson/icedtea-web/ when you get a few moments please :)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: ooh, sure
<pitti> chrisccoulson: done
<chrisccoulson> pitti - cool, thanks
<pitti> seb128: seems we shouldl make bug 740765 a dupe of 748552 then?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 740765 in nautilus "nautilus crash: assertion failed: (NAUTILUS_IS_VIEW (view))" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/740765
<seb128> pitti, I was just waiting for some extra confirmations but if you want to do it now feel free
<pitti> seb128: ah, ok; let's wait for another confirmation then to be sure
<seb128> pitti, btw I didn't get to review libscrollbar-overlay in NEW yet so if you have a free slot and want to do it please do
<seb128> I'm still catching up with the bug emails from the weekend
<seb128> 350 for my desktop box, over the double for unity
<pitti> seb128: urgh
<dpm> hi seb128, quick question:
<pitti> seb128: yeah, I can review it
<dpm> I was trying to find out why the gdm translations did not get imported, and I think it's because of the fact that they are now imported from bzr upstream branches instead of packages. I've noticed that on https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+source/gdm the upstream connection is set to the master branch instead of gnome-2-32. I would have thought someone would have noticed if the link is wrong, but perhaps you guys don't use it at all - how do you use
<dpm> the upstream bzr branches?
<pitti> seb128: more confirmation came in; duplicating now (using the web UI :) )
<pitti> blergh, timeout error
<pitti> seb128: I already used https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/740765/+duplicate but that times out as well (as expected -- *all* LP pages time out after 11 s)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 740765 in nautilus "nautilus crash: assertion failed: (NAUTILUS_IS_VIEW (view))" [High,Incomplete]
<pitti> didrocks: hm, what's the correct spelling of https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/overlay-scrollbar/ubuntu/ ?
<pitti> didrocks: it should also use v3 source format, I'll fix that in bzr (as well as Vcs-Bzr) once I know the project name :)
<pitti> didrocks: oh, ayatana-scrollbar ?
<seb128> didrocks, right
<seb128> ups
<seb128> pitti, right
<didrocks> pitti: v3 source format didn't work with hudson daily build last time I checked
<pitti> ah, thanks
<seb128> pitti, oh, web ui timeout? duplicate the other way around ;-)
<pitti> didrocks: ok, will keep v1 then and just fix vcs-bzr
<didrocks> pitti: and yes, the project is called ayatana-scrollbar
<pitti> seb128: how?
<didrocks> right, thanks ;)
<pitti> ah, Ken already did
 * pitti fixes Homepage:
<pitti> Accepting overlay-scrollbar
<pitti> seb128: how does "the other way around" work?
<seb128> pitti, keep the one with a stack of duplicate and close the one with a short list
<pitti> seb128: ah, ok; I thought more magic :)
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> no, but you are right, the ui timeout where there is quite some duplicates to reassign
<seb128> got the issue the other day as well
<seb128> or just use the lp script if you want, it spam a bit but it's not the end of the world
<pitti> ok, done
<didrocks> pitti: if you get a chance, can you have a look at bug #744104 ?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 744104 in unity "Feature Freeze Exception: Animation for Grid Plugin Previews" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/744104
<davmor2> is anyone else not seeing banshee in the sound indicator anymore?
<TheMuso`> davmor2: Yeah can confirm that here.
<davmor2> TheMuso`: Thanks.
<TheMuso`> np
<ogra_> TheMuso`, hey
<ogra_> i got a bunch of patches from TI
<ogra_> TheMuso`, would you mind taking a look at them ?
<TheMuso`> ogra_: Can do so tomorrow, if you can point me at them I'
<TheMuso`> ogra_: Can do so tomorrow, if you can point me at them I'll look then.
<ogra_> TheMuso`, i'll forward you some mails with explanations from the author, the patches are at http://afuera.cortijodelrio.net/~ddiaz/paucm/
<TheMuso`> ogra_: ok thanks. Do you want them all to be considered?
<chrisccoulson> vish, tut tut, there's already a -0ubuntu16 version of compiz in the archive (in maverick) ;)
<chrisccoulson> heh
<ogra_> TheMuso`, not sure they are all needed, we better ask the guy from TI working on them, i just forwarded you a mail with explanations from alejandro
<TheMuso`> ogra_: ok thanks.
<TheMuso`> Will look tomorrow.
<ogra_> thanks, tell me if i can help with anything
<TheMuso> ogra_: will do, thanks again.
<vish> chrisccoulson: you mean lucid?
<chrisccoulson> vish, no, in maverick. you can't have 2 builds with the same version anywhere ;)
<chrisccoulson> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+publishinghistory
<chrisccoulson> there's also a 15.1 already
<vish> chrisccoulson: weird, i see only compiz (1:0.8.6-0ubuntu9) maverick and compiz (1:0.8.4-0ubuntu15) lucid here Â» https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz
<chrisccoulson> vish - that doesn't show the publishing history ;)
<vish> hmm..
<vish> weird.. , i just apt-got the source, and i got only version compiz (1:0.8.6-0ubuntu9.1) maverick-proposed  :(
<chrisccoulson> and, they've been rejected anyway ;)
<chrisccoulson> i can't upload them
<chrisccoulson> never mind!
<vish> chrisccoulson: so, i need to make a new debdiff with the right version? (-0ubuntu17)
<chrisccoulson> vish - -0ubuntu15.2
<vish> ok. :)
<chrisccoulson> (you don't want a version newer than what was uploaded to maverick)
<chrisccoulson> vish - then i guess you'll need to subscribe sponsors ;)
<vish> chrisccoulson: oh! you dont have access for maverick either?
<chrisccoulson> vish, no. and neither for natty
<chrisccoulson> compiz is in desktop-core
<vish> chrisccoulson: dont make me tell seb-128 ! ;p
<chrisccoulson> lol
<chrisccoulson> i *can* upload it to dapper though if you like ;)
<vish> wait! i just noticed that the maverick version was 8.*4*
<vish> but this is 8.6
<vish> nope. i'm blind :D
<vish> or maybe not.. :s .. 1:0.8.4-0ubuntu16 is last maverick that i can see on that link..
<vish> and then the 8.6 starts in which 1:0.8.6-0ubuntu9.1 seems latest
 * vish gives up, subscribes sponsors and lets them yell at me :)
 * rodrigo__ lunch
<dpm> hey seb128, I'm not sure you saw my question earlier on: <dpm> I was trying to find out why the gdm translations did not get imported, and I think it's because of the fact that they are now imported from bzr upstream branches instead of packages. I've noticed that on https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+source/gdm the upstream connection is set to the master branch instead of gnome-2-32. I would have thought someone would have noticed if the link is wr
<dpm> ong, but perhaps you guys don't use it at all - how do you use the upstream bzr branches?
<seb128> dpm, did you check with danilo? I though they didn't turn on upstream import for Ubuntu yet?
<seb128> or that they would make it an optin on sources you have to ask to be imported
<seb128> dpm, we don't use the upstream imports
<seb128> dpm, I though launchpad was not supporting imports from != trunk anyway?
<dpm> seb128, danilo no longer works on translations after the squad reorg in Launchpad, only henninge from the old team works on a translations feature right now. They have turned upstream imports now - but that's a good point, I'll check if it supports imports from branches other than trunk
<seb128> dpm, right but he might still know what's going on there
<seb128> dpm, when you say translations didn't get imported are those .po from the tarball or template?
<dpm> seb128, I know, I was just pointing out. It seemed to me that the translations from the .po files did not get imported
<seb128> dpm, do you have any example of string wrong or missing?
<dpm> seb128, yeah, any of these: https://translations.staging.launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+source/gdm/+pots/gdm/ca/+translate?show=untranslated (giving you the staging.lp.net link which contains an older copy of the database, as on production I fixed it for Catalan by manually importing the translations)
<dpm> by manually importing the upstream translations, I mean
<dpm> Any of the untranslated ones in that URL are present (and completed) upstream, but don't seem to make it to LP through package uploads
<seb128> dpm, hum ok, yeah you need a launchpad guy there, I've no clue about that, at last UDS danilo told me that upstream imports would be opt in and not turned on before checking with us and using some testcases first
<seb128> we didn't request those to be on for gdm in any case
<dpm> seb128, yeah, I'll check with the lp guys, I was just asking you to know which use you made of the upstream branches first
<dpm> thanks!
<seb128> yw
<seb128> let me know what you figure
<seb128> I'm curious now ;-)
<dpm> will do :-)
<didrocks> making some session tests, brb :)
<nessita> hello everyone!
<nessita> hi dpm, I was wondering if you can confirm if this https://code.launchpad.net/~nataliabidart/ubuntuone-control-panel/translate-volumes/+merge/55989 requires a UI freeze
<dpm> hola nessita, let me have a look...
<nessita> dpm: I'm adding a new ui file for translation, that I dumbly forgot to add sooner :-(
<nessita> dpm: but it only adds a new string: "Sync locally?"
<dpm> nessita, that should be fine. Generally fixing strings that were untranslatable is not a problem. But if you could just send an e-mail to ubuntu-translators@ and ubuntu-doc@ with a heads up so that they know that there are new things to translate, that'd be great
<nessita> dpm: thank you very much! I can send an email, no problem
<dpm> nessita, excellent, thanks!
<dpm> seb128, I haven't found any translations people around yet to answer the question on imports, but on the related question whether upstream imports other than the main branch are supported: for git, they are not, but they soon will be, according to jelmer -> http://paste.ubuntu.com/589239/
<seb128> dpm, ok
<seb128> hey nessita
<nessita> hey seb128! how are you?
<cdbs> rodrigo__: gdm ported successfully, just that it isn't using the Adwaita theme for some reason
<cdbs> rodrigo__: its using the old fallback theme with ugly Windows 98 buttons
<seb128> nessita, I'm fine thanks, how are you?
<seb128> cdbs, gdm ported to what?
<nessita> seb128: pretty good, currently on buenos aires on a desktop+ sprint
<cdbs> seb128: not ported, updated
<seb128> nessita, oh, nice ;-)
<cdbs> seb128: gdm 2.91.94
<seb128> cdbs, you managed to port the stack of patches to the new codebasE?
<cdbs> seb128: yeah, though it required a headache of work
<seb128> I can imagine so
<cdbs> many seemed to have been accepted upstream
<seb128> does it require the new accountservice now?
<cdbs> seb128: yeah
<cdbs> it uses libaccountsservice
<seb128> you managed to port gdmsetup to that?
<cdbs> seb128: yeah, magically I changed configure.ac to build it with gtk3 and it build successfully
<cdbs> and right now I am running a GNOME3 session booted using the version of gdm I just built
<seb128> ok, weird that gdmsetup didn't need porting to use the accountservice
<seb128> you are sure it's working as it should?
<cdbs> seb128: yes it is, but I can't be sure about what happened during the build; whether gdmsetup built properly or not
<seb128> ok
<cdbs> seb128: My packaging isn't suitable for the PPA, it would require more pairs of experienced eyes before it enters te PPA
<cdbs> seb128: the built GDM is in ppa:bilalakhtar/gnome-builds
<seb128> ok
<cdbs> you are sure to find a ton of mistakes in it
<cdbs> but it still worked, magically
 * bcurtiswx waves to room
 * alex3f waves back to bcurtiswx
<seb128> hey bcurtiswx
<bcurtiswx> hey seb128, is anyone backporting the patch mentioned in bug #748535
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 748535 in empathy "empathy crashed with SIGSEGV in event_manager_add" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/748535
<seb128> you? ;-)
<bcurtiswx> seb128, can do, just making sure i'm not performing a futile action
<seb128> go for it
<bcurtiswx> OK :)
<davmor2> kenvandine: Gwibber lens doesn't seem to be doing anything for me,  is there something I'm meant to do once it's installed?  (By nothing I mean there are no quick menus, no tweets/fb entries shown etc)
<kamstrup> davmor2: does normal gwibber work for you?
<JanC> davmor2: do other lenses do anything (here none of them work, currently...  :P )
<davmor2> kamstrup: Yeap
<kenvandine_> davmor2, having trouble with the gwibberlense?
<kamstrup> davmor2: have you restarted unity (or fx. logged out/in)?
<davmor2> kamstrup: I rebooted
<davmor2> kenvandine_: indeed nothing shows up, no quick menus, if I type in a name that is in a recent tweet nothing shows up etc
<kenvandine> kamstrup, i noticed a pretty weird problem... installing the lense on a box that has never had it installed before is "odd"
<kenvandine> davmor2, have you logged out twice?
<kenvandine> kamstrup, i witnessed it 2 machines... had to logout and login 2 times before it populate the sections and the menus
<kenvandine> which just seems impossible
<davmor2> kenvandine: nope only once after I installed it,  I can reboot again if you'd like
<kenvandine> kamstrup, just restarting the service doesn't do it
<kenvandine> it is like the rendering side is confused
<kenvandine> davmor2, please do
<davmor2> one second
<kamstrup> kenvandine: that can only happen if the daemon somehow keeps running and is in a bad state to begin with
<kamstrup> kenvandine: is there maybe a headless login on the same user account or somethhing?
<kenvandine> kamstrup, is it possible that i am doing something out of order or something... so the first time it runs it doesn't get the model right
<kamstrup> kenvandine: if you log out and log back in it should always work...
<kenvandine> kamstrup, i reproduced it on 2 fresh installs
<kamstrup> kenvandine: and then after that you never see it again?
<kenvandine> never again
<kenvandine> does it do the on disk caching thing?
<kenvandine> kamstrup, note: it isn't just that it isn't displaying results from gwibber... but it isn't populating the quicklists either
<kenvandine> until the second restart
<kamstrup> kenvandine: not unless you use the Dee.ResourceManager (which the unity-place-python example does not)
<kenvandine> mine doesn't
<kamstrup> ok
<kenvandine> the renderer does seem to do some caching
<kenvandine> it always has the last set of results
<davmor2> kenvandine: Nope, however compiz crashed which triggered unity to restart and then everything showed up :)
<kenvandine> which is awesome
<kenvandine> davmor2, so now it is working?
<davmor2> kenvandine: it is now indeed
<kamstrup> kenvandine: Unity does "caching" in the sense that all the models are *shared* so they exists both locally on unity and on the daemon and are automagically kept in sync
<kamstrup> kenvandine: and even if the daemon stops unity will still keep the model as it is
<kamstrup> kenvandine: and when the daemon comes back up the models will be synced back into the daemon (from unity)
<kenvandine> kamstrup, so maybe a race condition setting up the model?
<kamstrup> kenvandine: could be, but if you restart or log out nothing should be cached
<kenvandine> kamstrup, i had assumed it was caching on disk since once it works once, it always works reliably
<kenvandine> it is just that first run
 * kenvandine tries to reproduce in a guest session
<kamstrup> kenvandine: no disk caching
<kenvandine> kamstrup, ok, easy to reproduce in a guest session
<kamstrup> you only get that if you explicitly do it yourself
<kamstrup> ok
<kenvandine> kamstrup, so start a guest session
<kenvandine> add a gwibber account
<kenvandine> try then lens
<kenvandine> it'll be empty and no sections
<kenvandine> then
<kenvandine> setsid unity
<kenvandine> and like magic the lens works
<kenvandine> kamstrup, it is very puzzling... :)
<kenvandine> kamstrup, it doesn't even get the sections model
<kenvandine> kamstrup, yeah, you can reproduce it even without adding a gwibber account
<kenvandine> you'll notice there are no sections in the quicklist
<kenvandine> but if you "setsid unity"
<kenvandine> they show up
<kamstrup> kenvandine: lol, sorry dude, works perfectly here :-)
<kenvandine> sigh :-D
<kenvandine> do you have the ppa version?
<kenvandine> maybe it is something i broke :)
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, https://code.launchpad.net/~bcurtiswx/ubuntu/natty/empathy/empathy-2.34.0-0ubuntu2/+merge/56161 when you get some free time
<kenvandine> kamstrup, try again
<kenvandine> out of 5 attempts in a guest session it worked twice for me
<kenvandine> so gotta be a race
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, sure
<kenvandine> kamstrup, ok... this is getting freaking weird by the minute
<kenvandine> after a bunch of attempts in a guest session it is working everytime
<kenvandine> but adding a new user and logging in it fails the first time
<kenvandine> but the guest session gets cleaned up each time!
<kenvandine> anyway, it does make it seem like a race condition, which of course can be unpredictable :)
<JanC> isn't it possible to put windows back on the right workspace after a unity/compiz crash?
<seb128> JanC, no, that's compiz which has the infos about those
<seb128> so when it crashes it get a clean state
<seb128> well it would be possible I guess but time is better spent on fixing the crashers ;-)
<JanC> seb128: it seems to remember some of it, as it puts the workspaces in a different order, and then moves the windows slightly such that they end up partly off-screen
<rodrigo__> cdbs, I think it's because we change the gsettings-desktop-schemas package to have another default theme
<cdbs> rodrigo_: oh thanks for figuring it out
<cdbs> rodrigo_: so, what is to blame for that? gdm or gsettings-desktop-schemas?
<rodrigo_> cdbs, well, the problem is that we should set gsettings-desktop-schemas to use a default theme that we ship
<rodrigo_> cdbs, so if we indeed have a patch in g-d-s to change the them, it's g-d-s' fault
<rodrigo_> cdbs, can you check if that's the problem?
<cdbs> rodrigo_: I apt-get sourced the g-d-s package and I found it to be setting Adwaita as the default theme
<cdbs> rodrigo_: That seemed to be for the whole interface
<cdbs> rodrigo_: I couldn't find a GDM-specific key for it
<cdbs> rodrigo_: leave it, I am not uploading gdm to the GNOME3 ppa right now, I just left it in my own ppa, I'll see after the final release
<cdbs> where final release is GNOME 3 final release
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, thx for the merge
<rickspencer3> hey all
 * bcurtiswx waves at rickspencer3 
<rickspencer3> :)
<rickspencer3> bcurtiswx, seb128, pitti, etc...
<rickspencer3> it's beta 1 plus a few days, what's the work ont he street?
<seb128> hey rickspencer3
<rodrigo_> cdbs, hmm, ok, I thought we had a patch
<pitti> hey rickspencer3, back home?
<rodrigo_> cdbs, and afaik, gdm should be using the default, so not sure who to blame now then
<cdbs> rodrigo_: /me scans accross GDM source code to see how its determining the theme
<seb128> rickspencer3, lot of bug feedback over launchpad during the weekend, having reading though most of it desktop seems solid, unity seems quite stable now but lot of small issues
<rickspencer3> pitti, yeah, got back yesterday evening
<rickspencer3> seb128, do you think unity is going to be ready to ship by beta 2?
<rickspencer3> seb128, I mean, what's your gut feel?
<pitti> it's still very crashy
<pitti> but I think it'll be good, if they keep the current bug fix pace
<seb128> pitti, is it?
<pitti> seb128: not for you?
<pitti> it's a lot better than in beta-1, though
<seb128> pitti, I didn't get any crash for 3 weeks out of stress testing it to make it crash which worked once
<seb128> rickspencer3, seems fine to ship to me, it's not like we ever have a bug free product
<rickspencer3> the only time I get any kind of instability is when I am in multi-mon
<didrocks> pitti: if it's very crashy, please tell us, we have very few crashes since last update
<pitti> didrocks: I'll apport it the next time it goes boom
<didrocks> thanks :)
<seb128> mvo, bug #742935
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 742935 in aptdaemon "aptd crashed with OSError in release(): [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/742935
<seb128> mvo, that one got several recent duplicate
<mvo> seb128: thanks, I check it out
<seb128> mvo, there is another one about unicode error but it's on the natty list so I guess it's on your list right?
<seb128> bug #730643 as well
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 730643 in software-properties "software-properties-gtk crashed with Error in setlocale(): unsupported locale setting" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/730643
<seb128> not sure if it's a pitti thing due to the gi port though
<mvo> seb128: the aptdaemon unicode one I have a branch ready
<mvo> I had hoped that glatzor is able to have a look, but if he dosn't in the next days I will merge/upload
<seb128> ok
<pitti> seb128, mvo: I can have a look at the s-p-g crash
<seb128> pitti, that would be great thanks, doesn't seem to be gi related but it started this cycle
<seb128> or it's frequent nowadays for some reason
<pitti> seb128: coudl be related to more detailled locale setting in gdm
<seb128> right
<seb128> pitti, btw I've a go at fixing the retracers
<pitti> seb128: argh, they crashed again?
<seb128> yes
<pitti> what is it this time?
<seb128> the amd64 without a reason, I restarted it and it's going through python duplicate fine still
<seb128> the i386 one crashes on ['apt-get', '-y', '--allow-unauthenticated', 'dist-upgrade']
<seb128> I'm logging in manually to see what fails to upgrade
<seb128> pitti, it's the udev upgrade which breaks it
<pitti> ah, needs set -e removed from the postinst again
<seb128> pitti, well I usually just rm the postinst
<seb128> that's not like those were boxes that need to start or have a working udev ;-)
<seb128> dobey, hi, we got another g-s-d crash bug from natty due to the quota dialog
<seb128> dobey, do you think you can work on it before natty?
<dobey> seb128: ok
<seb128> dobey, thanks
<dobey> seb128: i think we are going to remove that part of the plug-in, in favor of other integration points with unity
<seb128> dobey, if you could just drop a comment on the bug from the other day to say you will work on it that would be nice since the submitter since quite responsive and sort of corporate user with landscape support
<seb128> dobey, ok, I'm find either way, as long as g-s-d stops crashing and that the submitter see that we are taking care of the issue ;-)
<dobey> seb128: right, yes, i will fix it today even.
<seb128> dobey, great, thanks
<chrisccoulson> pitti - i just reviewed https://code.launchpad.net/~psusi/ubuntu/natty/upower/sleep/+merge/54093, but you should probably have overall authority on that. you might want to take a look at it at some point
<dobey> seb128: so there's a couple g_return_if_fail_warning crashes i see in g-s-d filed under ubuntuone. but it looks like it's crashing in libc or in glib maybe
<seb128> doh, mvo is making the retracer life hard ;-)
<seb128> dobey, do you have examples?
<dobey> seb128: bug #744758
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 744758 in ubuntuone-client "gnome-settings-daemon crashed with SIGSEGV in g_return_if_fail_warning()" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/744758
<dobey> seb128: it seems to be crashing in vasprintf internals, which is a bit weird
<seb128> dobey, could be a corruption issue
<seb128> dobey, or an invalid translation
<seb128> like not using the right format
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I'm aware of it, thanks
<seb128> pitti, seems quite some users ran into #713863
<seb128> it's jockey crash
<dobey> seb128: sorry, broken wifi toggle button on this laptop
<seb128> sorry guys, I've been doing some duplicate counting in the retracer log to see frequent python crashers
<pitti> seb128: thanks, assigned to me
<pitti> seb128: no need to be sorry; I'm so glad that you do this kind of urgent bug review!
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> it's just mvo who hates me after it because he has some of the most frequent ones ;-)
<seb128> mvo, #728713 is a s-c one
<pitti> well, hate isn't proportional to frequency, but to difficulty :) (for developers anyway)
<seb128> bug #736507 as well
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 736507 in update-manager "update-manager crashed with UnicodeDecodeError in _convert_struct(): 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc3 in position 100: ordinal not in range(128)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/736507
<mvo> thanks seb128
<seb128> mvo, sorry for spamming you ;-)
<bcurtiswx> cassidy, how would I get a subscription request box to pop up?  I'm testing a fix to gnome bug #646654
<ubot2> Gnome bug 646654 in Contact List "Empathy subscription request dialog box should be more helpful" [Trivial,New] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=646654
<chrisccoulson> seb128, i have a patch for the gsd/u1-plugin crasher
<chrisccoulson> it also makes g-s-d actually shut down properly
<chrisccoulson> (it just spins the CPU for ages on shutdown atm)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, nice, tell dobey when he's back
<seb128> chrisccoulson, the quota crasher?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - bug 744758
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 744758 in ubuntuone-client "gnome-settings-daemon crashed with SIGSEGV in g_return_if_fail_warning()" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/744758
<seb128> oh, that one
<seb128> nice catch
<seb128> sorry we discussed 2 issues earlier and I was still set on the other one
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - that one has been an issue for ages, but i never actually sat down to investigate it properly
<chrisccoulson> i'm sure it's a problem on maverick too
<seb128> the bug is a lucid one...
<chrisccoulson> it stops gsd from quitting properly too
<seb128> so it's likely an issue since at least lucid
<chrisccoulson> brb, i need to restart xchat now i've been playing with g-s-d ;)
<chrisccoulson> that's better :)
<chrisccoulson> i don't have an xchat window that looks like it came from the 1970s now
<kenvandine> seb128, i fixed bug 746962, looks like it was a copy paste of the bug i fixed in 739319
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 746962 in indicator-me "unity-panel-service crashed with SIGABRT in g_simple_async_result_complete()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/746962
<seb128> kenvandine, right, that's what I assumed when I read it, thanks
<kenvandine> seb128, i reviewed the rest of the service, only other g_error is if we can't get on the bus at all
<seb128> chrisccoulson, the theming issue is fixed in gtk3 it seems
<seb128> chrisccoulson, i.e applications not picking up the theme correctly
<seb128> kenvandine, ok great
<seb128> kenvandine, do you know why the username fetching fails for those btw? what will be displayed instead?
<kenvandine> so should be good
<kenvandine> i can't reproduce the failure
<kenvandine> but it'll be an empty string
<kenvandine> actually, it'll just never set_label
<kenvandine> set_text on the label rather
<kenvandine> same for the status icon, it just won't set it
<pitti> good night everyone!
<didrocks> good night pit
<didrocks> pitti*
 * didrocks can't type anymore
<davmor2> kenvandine: I have one issue with the gwibber-lens it's not obvious which order the posts are in.  Does it go down the columns left to right or along the rows left to right?
<davmor2> kenvandine: the issue is only raised because in gwibber you go down the column rather than across.  It is still pretty cool though :)
<kenvandine> yeah... i have the same complaint
<kenvandine> davmor2, unfortunately i can't control that, the renderer does
<kenvandine> left to right does feel weird for this
<kenvandine> davmor2, i am hoping to convince njpatel to create a single column version of the render
<kenvandine> davmor2, i suspect there will be bribing involved at UDS :)
<davmor2> kenvandine: get him drunk to the point where he'll say yeah to anything record it then dub the question in before, then he has to he said yeah :D
<tedg> Is there a way to find out what version of indicator-appmenu this stack trace aligns with?  bug 738561
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 738561 in indicator-appmenu "unity-panel-service crashed with SIGSEGV in g_cclosure_marshal_VOID__OBJECT()" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/738561
<chrisccoulson> dobey, did you see the patch on bug 744758?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 744758 in ubuntuone-client "gnome-settings-daemon crashed with SIGSEGV in g_return_if_fail_warning()" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/744758
<dobey> chrisccoulson: no not yet.
<dobey> chrisccoulson: hrmm. weird. are you going to propose an upstream branch for that?
<chrisccoulson> dobey, yeah, can do
<dobey> chrisccoulson: great, thanks
<bcurtiswx> cassidy, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=646654
<ubot2> Gnome bug 646654 in Contact List "Empathy subscription request dialog box should be more helpful" [Trivial,New]
<nagappan_> in #ubuntu-testing, I asked patrickmw the following info, pasting here, can someone help us ?
<nagappan_> nagappan_> patrickmw, okay, the reason I ask is, in VMware Workstation, we have Unity functionality, where the guest window will appear as on of the host application window
<nagappan_> <nagappan_> patrickmw, in Ubuntu 11.04 I don't see the menu in this window
<nagappan_> <nagappan_> patrickmw, if we can enable / disable the menu bar at run-time, that will be nice ;-)
<nagappan_> patrickmw suggested me to check here, thanks patrickmw :-)
<SpamapS> In Unity sometimes I swear the launcher just stays visible and won't go away.
<SpamapS> I have to close or open a program to make it slide back away
<SpamapS> am I crazy?
<Ampelbein> SpamapS: I have the same problem, so we are crazy together \o/
<Ampelbein> it seems to have something to do with clicking launcher then switching to another window without waiting for the program to load.
<SpamapS> Hmm that doesn't seem to do it for me.
<Ampelbein> it's not always happening for me, so maybe it's only a coincidence.
<SpamapS> I can't put a finger on when it stays stuck.. but when its stuck its very annoying because its not clear how to make it go away. :-P
<nagappan_> patrickmw, can I ping someone is specific ?
<nagappan_> patrickmw, found something interesting online, but this requires to be changed before any app started or restart the system - http://www.webupd8.org/2011/03/disable-appmenu-global-menu-in-ubuntu.html
<nagappan_> patrickmw, not at runtime
<patrickmw> nagappan_, nice.  try asking the guy who wrote the blog :)
<nagappan_> patrickmw, finding some more useful info here - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/ApplicationMenu
<patrickmw> nagappan_, I really don't know the answer, so you may want to ask again
<nagappan_> patrickmw, sure
<nagappan_> patrickmw, np
<nagappan> is there a way to disable the appmenu at run-time ? rather than before starting the app ?
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-04-05
 * robert_ancell is getting really sick of alt-tab crashing.  Who knew this is the most unstable feature ever?
<RAOF> robert_ancell: Those crashes seem to have been fixed for me; when did you last update?
<robert_ancell> RAOF, I haven't seen them for a few weeks
<robert_ancell> RAOF, oh, you mean the alt-tab?  They've just started again
<RAOF> :(
<RAOF> Hm.  Banshee's profile output exceeds my terminal buffers :)
<TheMuso> Can anybody point me to the webkit update policy post FF, or is there not one? I.e is it considered part of GNOME?
<TheMuso> I ask because webkit 1.4 is being released this week, and I've been told by upstrea a11y people that it has some important a11y fixes.
<TheMuso> RAOF, robert_ancell, are any of you able to resolve ubuntu.com atm?
<RAOF> TheMuso: Yup.  Mine happily resolves.
<TheMuso> Hrm ok I think Telstra is playing up... This connectino hasn't quite been the same since the JP earth quake... Under sea cables affected me thinks.
<TheMuso> Well its not just my connection/local area, even the Telstra mail server can't find canonical.com...
<TheMuso> RAOF: Could you grab the IP for ubuntu.con or canonical.com for me please? I'd like to do a trace. Telstra and various providers using Telstra wholesale are experiencing routing issues, and I want to see if I can get through without trying to resolve DNS.
<RAOF> TheMuso: 91.189.94.156 for ubuntu.com & canonical.com; 91.189.90.41 for www.ubuntu.com; 91.189.89.88 for www.canonical.com
<TheMuso> RAOF: gees more than I asked for. :) Thanks.
<RAOF> Well, I wasn't entirely sure what you were after, and since a lookup is essentially freeâ¦
<TheMuso> Just one of those ips to see if I can possibly do anything without resolving DNS. :)
<TheMuso> ...and seems I can't. :S
<RAOF> Hurray for telstra, I guess.
<TheMuso> Yeah, Telstra, and anybody using Telstra Wholesale for international net connectivity.
<TheMuso> I believe IINet are somewhat affected too.
<TheMuso> ah its back
<TheMuso> ...and there it goes again...
<didrocks> good morning
<cdbs> good morning didrocks
<didrocks> hey cdbs!
<mvo> hey glatzor! good morning, great to see you and thanks for your merge! will you have a change to look at my linitian branch as well?
<pitti> Bonjour mes amis!
<didrocks> salut pitti!
<TheMuso> Morning didrocks, pitti.
<didrocks> hey TheMuso
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<TheMuso> chrisccoulson: Hey there.
<chrisccoulson> hi TheMuso, how are you?
<TheMuso> chrisccoulson: You may be able to answer my webkit question further in backscroll.
<TheMuso> chrisccoulson: Well thanks, had a bit of an up and down with the net today (not me, an upstream international link has routing issues), but otherwise well thanks.
<chrisccoulson> TheMuso, oh, i don't think i see any webkit question in my backscroll (my laptop died overnight, so I think I've missed a big chunk of time)
<TheMuso> chrisccoulson: Ah ok then. I was just enquiring about the update policy for webkit, now that we are passed FF. I have been informed that webkit 1.4 is being released this week.
<chrisccoulson> ah, i'm not too sure about that. micahg would probably be the best person to ask for that
<TheMuso> chrisccoulson: ok thanks.
<rodrigo_> morning
 * TheMuso waits till he gets intermitant access to ubuntu/lp domains again so he can upload...
<rodrigo_> hey TheMuso
<TheMuso> rodrigo_: Hi there.
<didrocks> hey chrisccoulson, rodrigo_
<glatzor> mvo, morning! I am currently looking at the lintian branch. Would it be ok for you to ship the original test list by default and modifing it per distro patch?
<rodrigo_> hi chrisccoulson, didrocks
<chrisccoulson> hi didrocks and rodrigo_, how are you?
<didrocks> fantastic weather here! I'm really good, thanks. You? ;)
<rodrigo_> chrisccoulson, I'm fine thanks, and you?
<chrisccoulson> rodrigo_, yeah, good thanks
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, oh, you get nice weather? not fair ;)
<didrocks> heh ;)
 * didrocks finds that totally fair on the contrary :p
<chrisccoulson> lol
<chrisccoulson> it is grey and overcast here
<chrisccoulson> like always ;)
<chrisccoulson> welcome to birmingham!
<chrisccoulson> :)
<rodrigo_> :)
<mvo> glatzor: sure, thats fine
<mvo> glatzor: note that the original list is not ideal as it e.g. kills /opt packages and we want those
<mvo> glatzor: so I would suggest to remove that one at least
<chrisccoulson> lol @ ivanka-train - "Man opposite drinking Stella. Good morning commuter land!"
<chrisccoulson> hah, that's pretty impressive for this time of the morning!
<ivanka-train> chrisccoulson: rock and roll man. Rock and roll.
<ivanka-train> chrisccoulson: he is carrying a shopping bag which says: "Nature's way to beautiful"
<ivanka-train> chrisccoulson: hahaha
<chrisccoulson> lol
<glatzor> mvo, sounds sane
<pitti> seb128: bonjour
<seb128> hey pitti, how are you?
<seb128> didrocks, lut
<didrocks> salut seb128
<seb128> didrocks, how are you?
<pitti> seb128: I'm great, thanks!
<seb128> didrocks, btw alt-f2 is still buggy there, I saw you commented on the bug saying it should wait and work fine now
<didrocks> seb128: I'm fine thanks, very nice weather here :)
<seb128> didrocks, I just did alt-f2 gedit enter and it started gnome-display-properties...
<didrocks> seb128: let me check something
<seb128> pitti, reminding you about the meeting reminder! ;-)
<didrocks> maybe that's related to one branch which wasn't merged last cycle
<didrocks> release*
 * pitti ^5s seb128, merci
<pitti> seb128: I was about to remind you :)
<seb128> ;-)
 * seb128 hugs pitti
 * seb128 hugs didrocks
 * pitti hugs back seb128 and didrocks
<pitti> and chrisccoulson and mvo, too!
<chrisccoulson> hi! :)
 * didrocks hugs seb128 and pitti
 * chrisccoulson hugs pitti, seb128, didrocks and mvo
<chrisccoulson> :)
 * didrocks adds chrisccoulson to the hug dance!
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, just checked, the branch fixing that is not merged!
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson, mvo
<seb128> hey rodrigo_
<seb128> didrocks, ok, stop lying to users on bugs then ;-)
 * bcurtiswx waves to room before going back to bed.
<bcurtiswx>   Just had a hail storm, woke me up from a dead sleep.
<seb128> didrocks, bug #749428
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 749428 in unity "When we press Enter to run the first search result, Unity should wait until searching is finished" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/749428
<didrocks> seb128: hum, no it was, waitâ¦ no only the relevant comment was fixed
<rodrigo_> hi seb128
<didrocks> seb128: so it should
<didrocks> that's gord's plate :)
<seb128> didrocks, I've added a comment saying that the fix didn't get merged yet
<didrocks> seb128: let me try
<didrocks> oh, oh
 * pitti looks at http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/bug-fixing/natty-fixes-report.html and bows to mvo
 * mvo hugs the bunch chrisccoulson didrocks seb128 pitti
<gord> seb128, didrocks we have a fix for that? i have a fix, in my head for that, but not something in physical form that launchpad can actually merge ;)
<didrocks> gord: I was thinking you told that you fix the enter to comply launching the first enter after the search
<mvo> pitti: woah, look at didrocks, he is actually accelerating
<didrocks> and njpatel added the "second enter" to first launching now while it's searching
 * didrocks hugs mvo
<pitti> mvo: yeah; even if we team up, there's no way of catching up
<mvo> lol
<gord> didrocks, the enter is fixed, has been for some time
<mvo> maybe we need to team up all the germans to catch him
<didrocks> pitti: I'm adding a lot of exit() in the unity code, open bugs, and then will remove them ;)
<mvo> next UDS we play "hunt-didrocks", everybody needs to run around and try to catch him
<pitti> hm, I should do that, too!
<mvo> that is going to be fun!
<didrocks> gord: seems it doesn't launch the first entry *after* the search
<mvo> didrocks: dude, you totally copy my strategy! add silly bugs and then pretend to be a good boy by fixing them
<didrocks> gord: if you type alt + F2, gedit very quickly and then enter, it will launch the first entry of the history
<mvo> didrocks: fwiw I have seen the behavior of seb128 too, that it sometimes launches the *previous* item
<didrocks> mvo: heh, strategy which wins :)
<didrocks> yeah, it launches the first entry of the history, not the first entry of the future resul
<gord> didrocks, yeah - it just launches the first thing it see's - i'll assign to me and make it wait for search results to come in
<didrocks> result*
 * mvo hugs didrocks
<didrocks> gord: thanks! ;) (and double enter to launch immediatly the first entry it sees, I thought njpatel added some code around that already)
<didrocks> but it was the day I was sick, so I probably dreamt about all of that. I should check my IRC logs :)
<seb128> didrocks, bug #747439 can you milestone and assign? quite some users run into it
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 747439 in unity "compiz crashed with SIGSEGV in CompWindow::id() while opening tcl/tk interface of R" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/747439
<didrocks> seb128: already fixed in compiz IIRC and should be there ASAP we have a release (the gitk fix)
<pitti> $ ls /var/crash -> empty; hmm, /me checks apport state
<seb128> didrocks, can you set it as fix commited with a comment then?
<pitti> it's enabled; what the heck did you guys do? :-)
<didrocks> seb128: I'm looking for the master bug
<seb128> didrocks, bug #745463 I just closed 2 duplicates from it you want to assign to someone
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 745463 in unity "compiz crashed with SIGSEGV in Launcher::EnsureAnimation()" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/745463
<seb128> pitti, see it's stable ;-)
<pitti> SHIP IT!
<didrocks> seb128: it's part of my "tabs opened" round (and that's why I targeted it yesterday). All critical/high bugs targeted will be reviewed after this release (as we have enough for now to fix)
<seb128> didrocks, what about bug #748096
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 748096 in unity "compiz crashed with SIGSEGV in Launcher::Launcher()" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/748096
<seb128> didrocks, let me know if I should stop, I list those who got some new bugs recently with some users concerned
<didrocks> (hang on)
<didrocks> I wanted to hack today :p and i asked yesterday omer26 and lamalex to gather a bug of crashesâ¦
<didrocks> I didn't see any activity
<didrocks> (in addition to mine)
<seb128> didrocks, well I'm basically building a list of common issues
<seb128> but if you want me to stop doing that for unity I will go back to do it for other components
<didrocks> seb128: no no, thats fine ;)
<didrocks> just hang on 5 minutes
<didrocks> just want to ensure that the tcl/tk issue is fixed
<didrocks> IIRC, it was the ICCM bug, but I need to check
<kamstrup> didrocks: is this you? http://twitter.com/#!/didierroche
<didrocks> kamstrup: not that I know of ;) I'm not even didrocks as it's someone telling "I don't know how twitter works" :)
<didrocks> maybe I registered some time ago with that for some gwibber tests (same time than identica, let's test)
<rodrigo_> didrocks, hmm, I think I'm following that other didrocks then
 * rodrigo_ removes it from friends
<didrocks> rodrigo_: ahah!
<rodrigo_> who dared using your name on twitter then?
<rodrigo_> do you want us to "visit" him? :)
<kamstrup> epic
<kamstrup> didrocks: can I be you on twitter? ;-)
<didrocks> rodrigo_: http://twitter.com/didrocks# when you subscribe, it's quite easy to find it's not me, that doesn't sound like French :p
<didrocks> kamstrup: heh, I probably should take time to sign in :)
<kamstrup> didrocks: i was tricked because http://twitter.com/#!/didierroche follows some french stuff :-)
<rodrigo_> didrocks, I just subscribed blindly, I thought there was only one didrocks on Earth
<kamstrup> rodrigo_: agreed. if there's more than one didrocks it must be a bug
<rodrigo_> yeah
<didrocks> make it a singleton! ;)
<rodrigo_> or someone trying to imitate the real and only didrocks
<kamstrup> !
<chrisccoulson> do we have a new default wallpaper in natty now?
<didrocks> yeah, I ask to get back my password on didierroche, seems it's indeed not me, received nothing ;)
 * kamstrup goesto register @fakedidrocks
<didrocks> sorry for the other guy, I don't care, I win on google :)
<kamstrup> :-)
<didrocks> seb128: ok, seems https://launchpad.net/bugs/747439 was fixed without being linked, we will use that bug for the reference
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 747439 in unity "compiz crashed with SIGSEGV in CompWindow::id() while opening tcl/tk interface of R" [Medium,New]
<seb128> didrocks, thanks
<seb128> didrocks, btw bug #749675 is the launcher crash I got on friday when doing click,dnd hammering
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 749675 in nux "compiz crashed with SIGSEGV in nux::BaseWindow::IsModal()" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/749675
<didrocks> seb128: I saw it yesterday morning, I was hoping it will be triaged by our triagers, it got some dup meanwhile, adding to the list
<didrocks> seb128: so on bug #748096 I was puzzled when reading it
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 748096 in unity "compiz crashed with SIGSEGV in Launcher::Launcher()" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/748096
<didrocks> how can people start evolution double clicking the icon when we are in the Launcher constructorâ¦ (and so no icon and suchâ¦)
<seb128> didrocks, did you figure it then? or are you still puzzled by it? ;-)
<seb128> didrocks, btw can you run your script?
<didrocks> seb128: I was just about shouting about incoming spam :p
<didrocks> so yeahâ¦ I didn't thought again about it
<didrocks> it's weird, and 3 people got it, so really exists
<ricotz> seb128, hello
<seb128> hey ricotz
<didrocks> seb128: ok, won't spend time on this now, adding to the list anyway
<ricotz> seb128, is someone updating gobject-introspection to 0.10.7?
<seb128> didrocks, ok, anyway I'm done with my morning review for unity
<seb128> pitti, ^ g-i update?
<pitti> ah, will look at that
<seb128> ricotz, it can likely be synced from debian but better to check with pitti
<seb128> he's the g-i dude around ;-)
<ricotz> would be nice to have it before uploading new gnome packages
<pitti> seb128: nope, Debian has 0.10.4
<seb128> ok
<ricotz> pitti, indeed ;)
<seb128> ricotz, why?
<pitti> I'll update it
<seb128> did they break abi or something?
<ricotz> seb128, no, but the fixed some bugs
<seb128> bugs in the typelib generation?
<ricotz> also the included glib introspection is updated to the latest release
<seb128> like things that we should rebuild everything against?
<ricotz> seb128, i am not sure, but i was curious about http://git.gnome.org/browse/gobject-introspection/commit/?id=f91595e978b2b041a20173ea595dfafd67534a3b
<seb128> well pitti will know better, let's see what he says after doing the update
<ricotz> pitti, thanks
<seb128> ricotz, thanks for pointing it!
<ricotz> seb128, yeah, needed to ask walters first to actually upload the tarball ;)
<didrocks> seb128: confirmed, I had to track it down, but it's the same :/
<didrocks> seb128: basically all the compwindowid when set at 0 are fixed in compiz trunk
<seb128> didrocks, ok, thanks, when is that likely to land in natty?
<didrocks> seb128: today or tomorrow
<seb128> ok
<seb128> mvo, is somebody working on apt-xapian-index?
<seb128> mvo, there is 6 bugs in the bug pattern needed list
<seb128> mvo, i.e 6 frequent crashers
<mvo> seb128: not as such, I can have a look, I know the code pretty well
<mvo> I would rather want to fix the bugs than to add a pattern :)
<seb128> mvo, if you could that would be nice ;-)
 * mvo looks
<seb128> mvo, right, the bugpattern tag just means they have been raised as common issues
<seb128> mvo, you want the numbers?
<mvo> I have it already in front of me
<mvo> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt-xapian-index/+bugs?field.tag=bugpattern-needed
<seb128> ;-)
<mvo> just need to finish some other stuff first (new apt, wooooh)
<seb128> mvo, no hurry, would be nice if you drop a comment on those review to say if it's an issue or not or apport noise, etc
<seb128> mvo, so I don't forget that I pinged about those and ping you again later on ;-)
<mvo> well, if I haven't acted on them properly its fine to ping me again :)
<mvo> (seb is a harsh master ;)
<seb128> lol
 * seb128 hugs mvo
<seb128> mvo, I'm showing you the way to beat didrocks ;-)
<seb128> some competition ;-)
<pitti> ricotz, seb128: g-i updated, tested, and uploaded
<seb128> pitti, thanks!
 * pitti afk for a bit on other computer, to test casper bug
<ricotz> pitti, thanks
<dpm> hi seb128, here's a fyi update on the conversation yesterday: translation imports from upstream bzr branches in source packages on Launchpad are not enabled unless explicitly done by the project maintainer. As per the translations failing to be imported for gdm, I've filed bug 751187
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 751187 in launchpad "Upstream translations not being imported for some Ubuntu packages" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/751187
<seb128> dpm, thanks
<dpm> zw
<dpm> yw
<seb128> cassidy, there?
<seb128> cassidy, unping ;-)
<cassidy> seb128, yep
<seb128> cassidy, we got a few duplicates during the night still of the crashes you fixed yesterday but I just checked they didn't upgrade yet to the version with the fix backported
<seb128> cassidy, so unping ;-)
<cassidy> good :)
<seb128> cassidy, https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/726842 do you know if that's a known issue?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 726842 in empathy "empathy-auth-client crashed with SIGSEGV in g_closure_invalidate()" [Medium,Incomplete]
<seb128> cassidy, it got duplicates from 2.34.0
<cassidy> seb128, looks like https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=34707
<ubot2> Freedesktop bug 34707 in tp-glib "Crash tp_g_signal_connect_object" [Normal,New]
<cassidy> seb128, if you have steps to reproduce it, I'm interested
<seb128> cassidy, the duplicates see it happens while connecting or reconnecting
<seb128> but they don't have extra infos
<cassidy> please comment on the fdo bug if you have more info about the crash
<seb128> cassidy, what sort of infos do you need?
<seb128> cassidy, I can try asking for extra infos but it seems to just happen sometime on start or when reconnecting after a disconnection by reading the duplicates
<cassidy> seb128, that's already more info that we have on the bug :)
<cassidy> ideally a valgrind log would be nice, but I guess that's tricky to get
<seb128> ok, I can add a comment there
<seb128> well you already have a valgrind log on the upstream bug
<davmor2> Hey guys what happened to all the work to unify the name of the rubbish bin?  Quick menu says "Empty Trash...",  App launchers label lists it as "Rubbish Bin",  Nautilus says "Move to Wastebasket" again
<seb128> seems like an en_GB translation issue
<seb128> those are called trash in the source
<dpm> davmor2, seb128, it might be worth checking out if the translations done in Launchpad were overwritten by the upstream ones due to bug 710591. The en_GB Ubuntu team discussed the change at the time, but the GNOME upstream team never accepted it, so if Launchpad translations were accidentally overwritten, Rubbish Bin might be back to Wastebasket or whatever it was before.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 710591 in launchpad "Ubuntu upstream translation imports overwrite Ubuntu translations" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/710591
<seb128> dpm, ok
<davmor2> seb128, dpm: thanks guys :)
<davmor2> I got to say though I'm getting happier and happier with the way that natty is shaping up keep up the good work I can't wait to see the finished product :)
<rodrigo_> neither unity nor gnome-shell respond very well to switching users, so I guess it's something to do with the nvidia drivers, any idea?
<pitti> mvo: ooh, new apt fixes the candidate.architecture field? niiice!
<seb128> rodrigo_, define not responding well?
<seb128> pitti, hey
<seb128> pitti, so people raised concern on the cairo gl bug that it's getting closer from natty and the issue is stucked
<rodrigo_> seb128, unity just shows a black screen when switching back to the 1st user
<seb128> does it happen using nouveau?
<rodrigo_> seb128, gnome-shell starts going too slow after switching back
<rodrigo_> seb128, hmm, haven't tested, with nouveau unity didn't work for me last time I tried
<rodrigo_> I'll try
<seb128> ok
<pitti> seb128: I was planning to talk about it in the meeting
<pitti> seb128: but I guess at this point we'll disable cairo in natty and have a wayland PPA? (well, there is one already, I presume)
<seb128> pitti, ok, I'm just mentioning it so it doesn't slip throguh
<seb128> pitti, well that's my preferred option yes
<mvo> pitti: yep, donkult is teh man
<chrisccoulson> b'ah, my firefox window doesn't have any window buttons in the panel anymore
<rodrigo_> any X11 expert around?
<seb128> rodrigo_, try #ubuntu-x
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok, thanks
<mterry> seb128, heyo!  If you have bugs you want to assign, I can take a bunch. I just finished yesterday with a bunch of quickly stuff, so I'm back on bug squashing
<seb128> mterry, hey
<seb128> nice!
<mterry> Else I can dig through indicator-datetime bugs
<seb128> mterry, guess what I just had some for you on my list in case ;-)
<seb128> bug #750588
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 750588 in appmenu-gtk "Geany's "New with template" submenu missing" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/750588
<seb128> mterry, ^ if you want to start with that one
<mterry> k
<seb128> mterry, if it's a corner case and it requires non trivial work maybe just delay to next cycle
<seb128> I'm not sure how likely other application can do similar things and how much work it is to fix
 * bcurtiswx waves to room
<patientfox> curious if there were any gnome3 PPA users around right now?
<patientfox> having a serious headache building the latest gnome-shell from jhbuild, curious about the state of the PPA
<mterry> seb128, more, more!  :)
<patientfox> i know that it won't run in a sandbox if i install from PPA
<patientfox> just curious aboutt he state of things
<seb128> mterry, see if you can make any sense of bug #749609
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 749609 in libdbusmenu "unity-panel-service crashed with SIGSEGV in g_closure_invoke()" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/749609
<seb128> mterry, it doesn't have a nice description but a stacktrace ;-)
<seb128> mterry, can you check with karl that he's understanding the ubuntu-geonames translation issue? his comments on the bug seems a bit confused
<mterry> seb128, k
<seb128> mterry, thanks
<fta> \o/ i fixed the remaining issue with xterms
<jibel> seb128, I got bug 751394 with today's iso. tested with kvm and vbox.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 751394 in gnome-session "gnome-session crashes on VM with *** gnome-session: free(): invalid pointer: 0x008e4ff4 ***" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/751394
<seb128> jibel: it's a didrocks bug ;-)
<jibel> didrocks, ^ :-)
<didrocks> arghâ¦
<seb128> didrocks, I think it's a fallback from your diff from yesterday
<seb128> didrocks, do you want me to check on it?
<didrocks> seb128: that will give a huge help yeah, thanks!
<seb128> didrocks, you're welcome
<micahg> TheMuso: I'd like to get webkit 1.4 in if it didn't break anything, if it does break stuff, I think I'd still like to get it in :)
<seb128> didrocks, jibel: ok, bug fixed (I think, I didn't test)
<seb128> jibel: let me know how it goes with the new version once it has build
<didrocks> seb128: great, what was it?
<seb128> didrocks, in the livecd case you don't set the fallback message but you still g_free it
<seb128> didrocks, I did init the variable to null to avoid that
<didrocks> argh, of courseâ¦
<jibel> seb128, if you have a build somewhere I can test it now.
<seb128> jibel: I've uploaded so I will give you the url in a few minutes when it's built ;-)
<seb128> will be easier than uploading local builds
<seb128> jibel: what architecture do you use?
<jibel> i386 or amd64. your choice
<jibel> the test was on i386
<seb128> jibel: ok, launchpad will have an i386 deb in 5 minutes, get ready ;-)
<jibel> it's better to test it now than waiting for a new iso.
<seb128> right
<rodrigo_> what's the branch for epiphany? lp:~ubuntu-desktop... seems to not exist
<rodrigo_> ah, it's the one in debian, cool
<seb128> jibel: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-session/2.32.1-0ubuntu19/+buildjob/2429151
<seb128> jibel: you probably want the 3 first debs
<seb128> though https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-session/2.32.1-0ubuntu19/+buildjob/2429151/+files/gnome-session_2.32.1-0ubuntu19_all.deb might be enough
<jibel> seb128, bug fixed. many thanks !
<seb128> hum
<seb128> re
<seb128> jibel: did you say the url?
<seb128> say -> see
<jibel> seb128, what do you mean?
<seb128> jibel: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-session/2.32.1-0ubuntu19/+buildjob/2429151
<seb128> jibel: you probably want the 3 first debs
<seb128> jibel: I copied those but I got disconnected it seems so I don't know if you received the pings or not
<jibel> seb128, that's the build I tested and it fixes the crash.
<seb128> ok great
<jibel> seb128, ah ok, so you didn't see: "<jibel> seb128, bug fixed. many thanks !"
<seb128> jibel: sorry I didn't get anything on the channel between 17:58 and 18:18
<jibel> np :)
<seb128> jibel: excellent, thanks ;-)
<didrocks> pitti: if you get a minute, can you have a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/744104 ?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 744104 in unity "Feature Freeze Exception: Animation for Grid Plugin Previews" [Low,Fix committed]
<ricotz> seb128, i saw you updated avahi, isnt building the gtk3 packages like in the gnome3-ppa an option for natty too?
<seb128> ricotz, seems it has little interest for natty itself, I would like to avoid doing extra changes not required by now
<seb128> ricotz, but it someone would have submitted the ppa diff for sponsoring when it was updated it maybe could have landed in natty...
<ricotz> ok, i will try to update some things later
<seb128> sorry if I already made that point before ;-)
<ricotz> the avahi gtk3 packages are need in the ppa ;)
<ricotz> no problem
<seb128> right, but it could have landed in natty directly
<seb128> why are people uploading those in the ppa rather than asking for sponsoring?
<ricotz> yeah, robert did that, but it missed some fixes too
<seb128> the ppa is not meant as a way to hijack the archive and avoid getting things in the distro
<seb128> it's there for new versions of things that we don't want to update
 * Sweetshark re-reporting in
 * pitti gets a load of backscroll, aah! netsplit?
<pitti> ok, so let's dive right in with the partner update
<pitti> kenvandine?
<kenvandine> sure
<Laney> seb128 rodrigo_ can you wait for debian for tomboy? (sorry to interrupt the meeting)
<rodrigo_> Laney, yes, I can
<Laney> :-)
<seb128> Laney, why? we have u1 diffs anyway
<kenvandine> DX has a couple things
<rodrigo_> right
<kenvandine> New API for setting urgency on launcher icon bug 747677
<kenvandine> Remove API for setting emblem on launcher icon bug 747311
<kenvandine> the new API will be used by U1
<mpt> tremolux, bug 751628
<kenvandine> but if anyone has issues with the removal of the emblem API, please scream loud now
<tremolux> mpt: thx, I'll look at it
<kenvandine> ok, moving on
<kenvandine> U1
<kenvandine> a couple things with the music store
<kenvandine> Setting amazon referral ID in banshee bug 745194
<kenvandine> Notify user when there is no MP3 support bug 733327
<kenvandine> all expected this week
<kenvandine> that is all i have
<kenvandine> questions/comments?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 747677 in ubuntuone-control-panel "[FFE] Need API to set urgency from background process" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/747677
<pitti> kenvandine: about the urgency API thing, I'm surprised that this comes up so late
<kenvandine> yeah, explanation is in the bug report
<pitti> kenvandine: isn't that exactly what indicators etc. tried to remove?
<didrocks> pitti: this is a design request
<kenvandine> basically only way to set the urgency is by launching the control-panel
<kenvandine> and we need u1-syncdaemon to be able to do it in the background
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 747311 in unity-foundations "Launcher - Remove the capability for Launcher icons to be overlaid with emblems" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/747311
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 751628 in software-center "Can't install from software centre: "this is not a genuine ubuntu package"" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/751628
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 745194 in banshee "Proxy redirect for Amazon referral codes" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/745194
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 733327 in libubuntuone "[UI FFE] Notify user of missing MP3 support" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/733327
<kenvandine> wow, ubot2 is a bit slow today :)
<seb128> there is some lag it seems
<seb128> pitti said he was lagged as well
<pitti> it seems my end of freenode is as well; I get the replies in batches every two minutes or so :(
 * kenvandine hands the mic back over to pitti
<ogra_> half duplex IRC ?
<cyphermox> ogra_, feels more like IRC over sat link or IR :)
<chrisccoulson> heh :)
<ogra_> heh
<kenvandine> haha
<chrisccoulson> it seems to be working ok here (i think)
<kenvandine> me too, afaict
<rodrigo_> same here
<didrocks> sounds good here as well :)
 * kenvandine gets a string and a couple cans to send one to pitti
<chrisccoulson> perhaps there are 2 different meetings going on in the same channel, but in parallel universes?
<mterry> Universe #1 is the best, beats the rest!
<rodrigo_> chrisccoulson, :)
<chrisccoulson> lol
<didrocks> heh
 * Sweetshark wants a private universe, if there are so many ...
<chrisccoulson> oh, seb128 has jumped in to the other universe
<seb128> hi
<seb128> is it better with a reconnect?
<mterry> seb128, yay
<seb128> mterry, thanks
 * mterry welcomes seb128 back to our universe
<bcurtiswx> this seems like a universal desktop meeting.. <drum hit>
<seb128> ;-)
<mterry> seb128, pitti is still missing
<chrisccoulson> he's still in his own universe ;)
<bcurtiswx> chrisccoulson, no no, he just divided by zero on accident
<chrisccoulson> heh
<ogra_> nah, he is in the east of germany ... (admittely some kind of own universe) ... they have fiber to the house over there (while the rest of germany uses DSL) probably its foggy ...
<JanC> FWIW: there was a "wallops" announcement that one of the freenode servers has issues which they are working on...
<micahg> mterry: that's not what you said in universe #2
<mterry> micahg, that was just between us!
<pitti> ah, seems to work better now?
<pitti> (IRC, I mean)
<seb128> pitti, does it?
<Sweetshark> IRC = Incountable ReConnects
<rodrigo_> :)
<bcurtiswx> IRC = Irritable Reconnection Condition.  Research for a cure is still ongoing
<bcurtiswx> everytime they find a cure it gets lost in another universe.  Pitti was supposed to find it in his....
<bcurtiswx> hmm, i think i'm caught on the event horizon of one of these proverbial black holes to other universes...
<pitti> bryceh: not sure whether you saw the latest comments on bug 725434? the library split opened a can of worms, and I'm afraid it'll create more problems than it solves
<pitti> bryceh: do you happen to have another idea how to fix this? If not, it looks like we'll need to disable gl support in libcairo for natty :/
<rodrigo_> Laney, seb128: as it's a trivial change in the ubuntu branch -> https://code.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/natty/tomboy/1_6_release/+merge/56409
<seb128> rodrigo_, thanks
<rodrigo_> Laney, seb128: if there's anything new in the debian package, we can update it later
<seb128> right, not sure why Laney wanted to wait on Debian
<rodrigo_> Laney, ^ ?
<Laney> To do the work once instead of twice. What's wrong with a merge?
<rodrigo_> Laney, well, since we have a few patches specific to ubuntu, I think it's more work
<rodrigo_> but I might be wrong
<seb128> Laney, nothing wrong but it's one week before natty, it's not really merge time
<seb128> the merge doesn't win us a lot out of not avoid to do it when next cycle start
<pitti> ok, moving back here
<pitti> bryceh: "I suppose you could check if they're installed" -> right, that was my question; do they have a version() or info() or anythign like that which libcairo could query?
<rodrigo_> Laney, so, are you planning other changes? if not, can't you just merge my trivial change in the debian package?
<rodrigo_> Laney, I can even provide you with a patch for the debian package's svn
<bryceh> pitti, I would guess there is, but my knowledge of libgl internals is a bit sketchy
<rodrigo_> Laney, hmm, well, there's no tomboy in debian's pkg-gnome's svn
<pitti> bryceh: would you like to explore this possibility, or is it easier at this point to just disable GL support globally in cairo?
<ricotz> seb128, i hope this is alright http://people.ubuntu.com/~ricotz/totem-pl-parser/
<seb128> ricotz, thanks
<ricotz> chrisccoulson, hi, are you planning to upload a patched version of gjs using libmoz185 soon?
<chrisccoulson> ricotz, yes, but it's not particularly high on my list of priorities
<ricotz> chrisccoulson, ok
<bryceh> pitti, glXGetDriverConfig or glXGetScreenDriver sound like they'd do it
<fta> seb128, didrocks: did gdk change recently? https://launchpadlibrarian.net/68312726/buildlog_ubuntu-natty-amd64.compiz_1%3A0.9.4git20110322-0ubuntu6~fta2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<fta> oh, seems it did. 2.23.1 -> 2.23.3
<fta> so next build of compiz will most likely ftbfs on amd64
<didrocks> fta: i'll have a release tomorrow, so with luck, I'll catch him
<seb128> well, the fail to build on implicit declaration was broken in launchpad as well
<seb128> so maybe it's not a new bug but it was not breaking build before due to the bug
<seb128> yeah, it's in https://launchpadlibrarian.net/67173970/buildlog_ubuntu-natty-amd64.compiz_1%3A0.9.4git20110322-0ubuntu5_BUILDING.txt.gz as well
<seb128> didrocks, so make sure smspillaz fixes those warning for the next tarball
<fta> too bad for my xterm fix
<fta> at least, i have it on 32bit :)
<pitti> didrocks: sometimes the indicator part of the panel gets shifted to the right, and "cut off" at the end; shall I file a bug, or does it sound known to you?
<didrocks> pitti: it's not, I saw that on dual monitor, but I thought it was linked to that
<didrocks> seb128: ok, thanks :)
<pitti> didrocks: ok, filing then
<seb128> pitti, do you use dual monitors?
<seb128> pitti, or do you switch between laptop lid and external screen?
<pitti> seb128: no, I boot with and keep the laptop screen closed all the time
<pitti> at session start I disable the internal one
<pitti> it was working fine all the time, but when I returned from dinner it suddenly was that way
<seb128> I get that even with laptop lid closed if I enable mirror and undo it for example
<pitti> I put the external monitor on standby, nothing else (computer kept running)
<seb128> ok, dunno then
<seb128> https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/742859
<seb128> pitti, could be that one
<davmor2> hey guys is the drop shadow from the panel meant to be visible on all desktops in Workspace Switcher view.  ie click on workspace switcher note the drop shadow on each of the desktops?
<pitti> I just have one unity-panel-service running, though
<seb128> pitti, open a bug I guess but I doubt it will be of any use with steps to trigger it
<ricotz> seb128, would you upload gnome-desktop3 3.0.0 if i point you to the package?
<pitti> hm, ~/.xsession-errors is rather useless these days -- 5 MB full of GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: g_closure_unref: assertion `closure->ref_count > 0' failed
<pitti> (from compiz)
<dobey> pitti: mine is full of crap from nm-applet :(
<ricotz> seb128, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ricotz/gnome-desktop3/
<seb128> ricotz, no, we are on sync with debian I would prefer to sync on them when they update
<ricotz> seb128, ok
<seb128> ricotz, I just synced the n-1 version today
<pitti> argh, source_xorg.py is buggy
<pitti>   File "/usr/share/apport/package-hooks//source_xorg.py", line 338
<pitti>     ):
<pitti>      ^
<pitti> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
<pitti> bryceh: ^ known already?
<pitti> missing a )
<bryceh> erf
<bryceh> pitti, thanks I'll fix
<bryceh> pitti, fix pushed
<pitti> cheers
<ricotz> seb128, i need to upload it to the ppa then for continuing some updates
<ricotz> seb128, crazy version bumps ;) there is a clutter 1.6.14 already :(
<davmor2> kenvandine: gwibber lens update has blanked it again.  the only thing that seem to fill it again is crashing compiz.  to do that currently I open idle but there is a fix for that in the pipe works :(
<ricotz> just saw you already updated it
<pitti> didrocks: heh, just took me a while to upload xsession-errors; LP kept rejecting it, found out that I needed to copy it to /tmp/ first :)
<didrocks> pitti: oh really?
<didrocks> how can it be that smart? :)
<pitti> didrocks: probably because it grows faster than I can upload it or so :)
<pitti> I get some 20 errors with each move/click I do, after all
<didrocks> pitti: heh, we like spam :)
<didrocks> (indicators as well)
<pitti> $ grep -c 1747.*g_closure_unref .xsession-errors
<pitti> 30966
<pitti> smspillaz: ^ is compiz throwing so many g_closure_unref: assertion `closure->ref_count > 0' failed assertions known, or want a bug for that?
<pitti> 31022 now
<pitti> no, 31126
<pitti> whee
<smspillaz> pitti: thats probably a unity bug
<didrocks> pitti: will you believe me if I tell you have I have 0 of them?
<pitti> smspillaz: pid 1747 is compiz, though
<pitti> ah, it's the same process, isn't it
<smspillaz> and unity runs inside of compiz
<smspillaz> bo-dom-tch!
<pitti> didrocks: lies, I say!
 * pitti hugs didrocks
 * didrocks hugs pitti
<didrocks> no, I would never do that :p
<pitti> didrocks: I can run with --fatal-criticals and apport it, want me to?
<didrocks> pitti: I fixed today some closure issue, so maybe it fixed it
<pitti> didrocks: you fixed  unref of an already deleted object?
<didrocks> pitti: exactly
<pitti> nice
<seb128> ricotz, indeed ;-)
<didrocks> also, there are been some fixes in the indicator stack for that IIRC
<Sarvatt> mine is filled with hundreds of thousands of gdk_pixbuf_composite: assertion `dest_y >= 0 && dest_y + dest_height <= dest->height' failed from nm-applet
<seb128> pitti, didrocks:
<seb128> $ grep ref_count .xsession-errors | wc -l
<seb128> 0
<seb128> pitti, report a bug with the stacktrace if you can
<didrocks> pitti: so, we are about making a compiz release
<pitti> I see dobey's nm-applet spam as well
<didrocks> should we wait for the grid ffe review or delay it for later?
<pitti> didrocks: getting to that in a minute
<didrocks> pitti: excellent, thanks! :)
<pitti> is there a way to start compiz/unity with G_DEBUG=fatal_criticals, but not other programs in my session?
<pitti> I have millions of criticals in my xsession-errors
<didrocks> pitti: seems that all the "Screen geometry changed:" are at startup time
<didrocks> (you started more than 107 apps in your session, congrats!)
<pitti> oh, I guess I could run just unity with that from VT1 and restart it
<pitti> didrocks: it's running since the morning :)
<didrocks> pitti: so yeah, the screen resize isn't guilty it seems
<pitti> didrocks: bug 744104 reviewed/acked
<didrocks> pitti: excellent, thanks a bunch!
<Laney> rodrigo_: I was just going to merge and upload it. Don't worry about it if you don't want to, but I think it's nice to work with Debian if possible.
<jbicha> I have been having trouble since this weekend logging into any gnome-session except for Gnome Shell
<jbicha> I think it's a bug in the gnome3 ppa
<jbicha> I get this error: Failed to load session "ubuntu"
<nagappan> didrocks, ping
<didrocks> nagappan: pong
<nagappan> didrocks, in this channel I asked yesterday a question about, enabling / disabling the appmenu at runtime
<nagappan> didrocks, reason we need them is
<nagappan> didrocks, in VMware Workstation, we too have Unity mode ;-)
<nagappan> didrocks, where the guest application be rendered as host application
<nagappan> didrocks, with Ubuntu 11.04, menu bar appears inside the guest top panel
<didrocks> nagappan: I don't really have a clue on appmenu, it's part of the indicator stack, you can deactivate it application by application with the UBUNTU_MENUPROXY environment variable
<nagappan> didrocks, I found some of the doc online -
<nagappan> didrocks, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/ApplicationMenu
<nagappan> http://www.webupd8.org/2011/03/disable-appmenu-global-menu-in-ubuntu.html
<nagappan> didrocks, okay
<nagappan> didrocks, can you please suggest me, whom should I ping ?
<didrocks> nagappan: the envrionment variable isn't enough?
<didrocks> you should ping tedg otherwise
<nagappan> didrocks, nope, reason:
<didrocks> I think there is no other way TBH
<nagappan> didrocks, if an user opens an application inside the guest VM
<nagappan> didrocks, and then change to VMware Unity mode
<nagappan> didrocks, the application menu doesn't appear
<nagappan> didrocks, in the host env
<nagappan> didrocks, or with the application
<nagappan> didrocks, it will be nice, if we could enable / disable using some dbus service
<didrocks> nagappan: I don't know enough about your prerequisite, but yeah, dynamically, it's not possible AFAIK
<nagappan> didrocks, I have suggested the above methods to our developers (changing environment variable)
<nagappan> didrocks, okay
<jbicha> maybe I should just file a bug
<nagappan> jbicha, about the above issue ?
<nagappan> jbicha, sorry, yours diff one
<nessita> pitti: ping
<pitti> hey nessita, how are you?
<nessita> pitti: hey there! I'm pretty good, you? I just saw you approved a FFE for libunity (THANKS!). I was wondering if you would know anything about the status of the FFE request for bug #742678
<nessita> (is a maverick FFE)
<pitti> nessita: I'm afraid no ack for SRU until it gets fixed in the development release
<ari-tczew> nessita: you mean SRU, not FFe for maverick
<nessita> ari-tczew: well, it requires an UI freeze exception as well
<nessita> pitti: is already fixed and released on natty
<pitti> nessita: hm, the bug doesn't say so, all upstream and the natty tasks are open
<pitti> Colin mentioned this as well
<seb128> re
<nessita> pitti: how com you didn't comment that on the bug? I would mentioned that everything is fixed in bug 709494
<pitti> nessita: also, why does the branch change half of the glade file?
<seb128> hey nessita
<nessita> hey seb128!
<pitti> nessita: Colin did that on the branch, and I generally mostly look at uploaded stuff in the lucid/maverick queues (not on every bug report)
<nessita> pitti: oh, you're right! sorry, I don't get notifications for branch comments (only for bugs). I'll check. Regarding the glade file, since we're unhidding a text entry, we need to make room for it, so we moved the login button to be just like in natty (next to the cancel/ok buttons)
<nessita> pitti: branch answered and bug description updated stating that this is already fixed don natty
<pitti> thanks
<seb128> dobey, hey
<dobey> seb128: hi
<seb128> dobey, thanks for working on those crash bug
<dobey> seb128: of course. crashes suck :)
<seb128> dobey, did you come to the same diff than chrisccoulson or just applied his update?
<seb128> dobey, you could credit him in the changelog at least if you used the one he posted yesterday ;-)
<dobey> seb128: yes, but rather than waiting for him to make an upstream branch, i fixed both crashes in one branch, for both our stable and trunk. i'll push an sru to -proposed soon with the stable fixes
<seb128> dobey, hum, https://code.launchpad.net/~chrisccoulson/ubuntuone-client/lp744758/+merge/56300 was an upstream merge request no?
<seb128> dobey, but no worry, it would just be nice if you give credit in the changelog at least ;-)
<dobey> oh i didn't see that. hrmm
<dobey> weird. it wasn't attached to the bug when i looked earlier
<dobey> chrisccoulson: sorry mate. :)
<pitti> nessita: I made it a dupe of the original bug
<nessita> pitti: why! :-) I was following protocol creating a new bug for the FFE
<pitti> nessita: but it's not an FFE, it's an SRU
<nessita> pitti: but but but :-)
<pitti> it's already fixed in natty, so no FFE necessary :)
<pitti> (we also don't routinely generate separate bugs for natty FFEs if they already have a bug)
<pitti> splitting bugs that way makes it harder for everyone involved
<nessita> pitti: I trust you, you're the boss. But in my defense I was told that we were in a constant UI freeze and feature freeze state for maverick
<seb128> nessita, there is
<seb128> nessita, but stable update = sru
<nessita> pitti: but SRU sounds easier, so yey!
<seb128> the ffe are for the current version
<seb128> nessita, well the sru has a ffe component there but it's still a sru
<pitti> yeah, this SRU actually has a UIF attached to it indeed
<pitti> but well, it's still a bug
<pitti> interpeting UIF as not allowing to fix "it displays garbage" would be a bit stretched IMHO
<nessita> seb128, pitti: crystal clear, thanks for the clarification
 * pitti hugs nessita, sorry for the hassle
 * seb128 hugs nessita just because she does rocking work
 * nessita hugs pitti and seb128 back
<nessita> :-)
<seb128> tedg, hey
<tedg> seb128, Howdy
<seb128> tedg, how are you?
<seb128> tedg, did you see someone came with a wxwidget fix ;-)
<tedg> seb128, Eh, okay.  And yourself?
<seb128> I'm fine thanks
<tedg> seb128, NO!  Didn't see that.
<tedg> NOW I'M GREAT!
<seb128> tedg, it's on the bug and 2 people confirmed it to work
<seb128> hehe
<seb128> tedg, nice work on fixing crashed and lyx as well btw ;-)
<pitti> chrisccoulson, Sweetshark: did you guys ever figure out why libreoffice needs xulrunner?
<seb128> crashers
<pitti> (for bug 740815)
<chrisccoulson> dobey - heh, that's ok ;)
<chrisccoulson> pitti - i've not looked at LO yet
<pitti> so it's "just" LibO and mono noow
<tedg> seb128, Yeah, getting there.  Dotting i's and crossing t's.
<seb128> Riddell, do you plan to do binNEW today?
<Riddell> seb128: I've been planning to do it all day :)
<Riddell> needing something?
<seb128> Riddell, overlay-scrollbar if you can
<Riddell> accepted
<seb128> kenvandine, ^
<seb128> Riddell, thanks!
<kenvandine> Riddell, thx!
<fta> since ~yesterday, everything i open from the unity side bar goes to workspace #1, instead of the current one
<seb128> unity didn't change this week nor did compiz
<seb128> did you try restarting your session?
<fta> it does that after a reboot
<fta> and stops after a while
<fta> but i don't reboot very often, so it may have started earlier
<TheMuso> micahg: Thanks for the heads up, a11y users will thank you. :)
<dobey> later all
<micahg> TheMuso: well, I want to discuss with robert_ancell
 * micahg wonders where he is
<TheMuso> Probably not on just yet, its barely past 8 AM here in Sydney.
<TheMuso> I am an early starter most days of the week.
<micahg> TheMuso: orly? I thought sydney was +12
<lifeless> micahg: NZ is +12 (in the absence of daylight savings)
<TheMuso> micahg: Sydney is now +10.
<pitti> good night everyone
<didrocks> good night pitti
<micahg> TheMuso: ah, thanks, I'll adjust my expectations then
<jasoncwarner> hey TheMuso robert_ancell RAOF and bryceh
<jasoncwarner> going to be 5 minutes late for meeting...finishing up call
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-04-06
<robert_ancell> ok
<rickspencer3> my fault, sorry guys
<TheMuso> np
<bryceh> heya
 * bryceh grabs coffee
 * RAOF will need to get milk before coffee is a viable option.
<TheMuso> heh
<jasoncwarner> TheMuso bryceh RAOF robert_ancell
<jasoncwarner> back...ready for https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2011-04-05
<jasoncwarner> ?
<jasoncwarner> :)
<RAOF> Wooo!  My long, long delayed patch to make dh_clideps error out when it can't resolve dependencies has landed!
<bryceh> ayup
<TheMuso> RAOF: nice.
<RAOF> TheMuso: Yeah.  Now things will fail to build rather than fail to run on systems without the appropriate -dev packages installed :)
<jasoncwarner> RAOF: nice :) (not that I know what that is, but I'm happy you're happy)
<TheMuso> Its mono related.
<jasoncwarner> anyway...jumping into meeting
<jasoncwarner> [TOPIC] X.org
<bryceh> bugs consuming most of the time these days
<RAOF> Bugs, bugs, bugs, bugsâ¦
<bryceh> I've been focusing heavily on -intel gpu lockup bugs since they're still coming in at a high rate
<bryceh> mostly been trying to push them upstream quickly, so we can get patches to give to the kernel team
<RAOF> I'm testing libdrm 2.4.24; it's got a bunch of intel bugfixes which resolve some bugs.
<bryceh> RAOF, for the one bug we know about, I cherrypicked and uploaded the patch
<bryceh> 2.4.24 has some other fixes but they look to me less relevant for natty
<TheMuso> I really should hammer my recently acquired intel GPU more...
<bryceh> and there were some instances of fixes-for-the-fixes ;-)
<TheMuso> But when at home and working, I tend to prefer my desktop...
<bryceh> RAOF, anyway so I'm wondering if maybe we should just hold off on updating libdrm and just pull in specific fixes if/when needed?  but I don't have strong feelings
<RAOF> bryceh: Yeah.  Some of the 2.4.24 fixes are for new userspace on old kernels, which we don't much care about.
<bryceh> today I also went through all of the -ati bugs and pushed about half upstream, and made a pass through -fglrx but most bugs there are invalid things from weird self-installs or whatnot
<TheMuso> I thought things had to be rather tightly in sync for intel...
<bryceh> TheMuso, sometimes
<RAOF> If you want it to *work* :)
<bryceh> TheMuso, libdrm 2.4.24 is mainly just a small handful of bug fixes
<TheMuso> Ah ok.
<jasoncwarner> hey bryceh, is the new fglrx driver included for those systems? I have a system running radeon and would like to try latest binary driver
<bryceh> jasoncwarner, yes you should be able to update to latest and then use jockey to install fglrx
<bryceh> since fglrx arrived with so little time before beta1 we were able to get it in, but not update jockey
<jasoncwarner> bryceh: awesome!
<jasoncwarner> thanks
<bryceh> so you need to update past beta1 and then can install it normally
<jasoncwarner> cool...I'm upto date as of this morning so I should be fine...computer is media center upstrairs so I'll give that a go when we are done here
<bryceh> anyway, the rate of incoming bugs is starting to exceed my capacity to keep up with them
<bryceh> http://www.bryceharrington.org/Arsenal/Reports/ubuntu-x-swat/totals-natty-workqueue.svg
<bryceh> help would be appreciated.  I figure by beta2 the rate will just be too high to be able to stay on top of the bugs any further
<RAOF> I'll do some more bug work, then.
<jasoncwarner> Yikes! Ok...anyone that can give bryceh a hand, that would be awesome...seems that trend line is going crazy
<RAOF> That's a terribly impressive graph, though.
<bryceh> RAOF, thanks; in particular I haven't kept up with mesa, nouveau, or input drivers.
<bryceh> although numbers for those are small
<bryceh> I figure once we shut off the apport gpu and crash hooks that'll ease a little bit of pressure
<bryceh> but probably should wait until post-beta2 to do that
<TheMuso> Actually interesting you should mention that, for natty beta there hasn't been the super influx of audio bugs like usual, so thats good news. :)
<bryceh> jasoncwarner, anyway I'm rambling now.  I'm done :-)
<jasoncwarner> :)
<jasoncwarner> cool
<jasoncwarner> next topic [TOPIC] AOB
<jasoncwarner> anythign else anyone wants to talk about?
<micahg> o/
<RAOF> Have other people noticed moderately high CPU usage in Banshee?  ~10% when playing with the window open?
<jasoncwarner> RAOF: ;) you know I did yesterday :)
 * TheMuso doesn't use banshee, there are still a11y issues with that, I really ort to dig into that a bit deeper.
<TheMuso> But I was personally happy with rhythmbox.
<TheMuso> s/was/am/
<RAOF> There's no smoking gun in the profile, but since it doesn't seem to occur when the window is closed there are some good leads.
<jasoncwarner> thanks, RAOF....keep digging..seems weird that it would jump to that much CPU just to play music...weird...
<jasoncwarner> thanks!
<jasoncwarner> Sounds like we are about done...Anything else before we call the meeting?
<micahg> o/
<TheMuso> Its mono. What else do you expect? :)
 * TheMuso ducks.
<jasoncwarner> micahg: ?
<micahg> I wanted to ask about webkit 1.4
<jasoncwarner> micahg: go ahead
<micahg> is robert_ancell planning on working on that?
<robert_ancell> micahg, yes, there's a problem with the documentation build, working on that today
<micahg> robert_ancell: ok, great thanks
<robert_ancell> 1.3.13 that is, still waiting for 1.4.0...
 * micahg thought 1.4.0 would come with GNOME3 this week
<TheMuso> Do I read the release schedule incorrectlyk, or is there no beta freeze for beta 2?
<micahg> jasoncwarner: that's it, thanks :)
<micahg> TheMuso: apr 11
<TheMuso> Ah makes sense.
<TheMuso> Thats kinda cool, because it means I have some, if not all of Monday to do work. :)
<micahg> actually, I think almost everyone has all of monday
<RAOF> :)
<TheMuso> ah ok.
<TheMuso> So its EOD Monday.
 * micahg thought freeze was 23:00 UTC monday
<TheMuso> Could very well be.
<RAOF> Oh, so I'll have time to work on my birthday, too. :)
<TheMuso> lol
<micahg> robert_ancell: I'm assuming there haven't been any unplanned ABI breaks for webkit?
<robert_ancell> micahg, in 1.3.13?
<jasoncwarner> RAOF: nice...now none of us have excuses for not remember your bday ;)
<micahg> robert_ancell: yes
<robert_ancell> micahg, I didn't see any
<TheMuso> jasoncwarner: My thoughts exactly.
<jasoncwarner> ( RAOF : not saying we will...we just don't have excuses)
<RAOF> jasoncwarner: It's a cunning ploy!
<micahg> robert_ancell: also, could 1.2 be installed alongside 1.4?
<jasoncwarner> Ok...going to call the official meeting...[END MEETING]
<bryceh> thanks
<seb128> hey robert_ancell
<robert_ancell> micahg, looking, I think not though
<robert_ancell> seb128, hey
<TheMuso> thanks.
<seb128> robert_ancell, just a reminder, if you update gvfs it uses merge-upstream so don't just run dch ;-)
<robert_ancell> seb128, yeah, I know!  I'll probably just do something wrong though...
<seb128> lol
<robert_ancell> seb128, so the process is to run merge-upstream, then debcommit -r? or just bzr commit?
<seb128> robert_ancell, debcheckout gvfs; cd gvfs; bzr merge-upstream --version 1.8.0 tarball_url
<robert_ancell> micahg, no, they would conflict
<seb128> robert_ancell, then dch -i, do you packaging tweaks
<seb128> debcommit -r, push, upload
<robert_ancell> seb128, yeah, I think I keep forgetting the -r, then it doesn't tag and it gets confused
<seb128> robert_ancell, if you do gvfs maybe include http://bugzilla-attachments.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=185180
<seb128> robert_ancell, it's an upstream patch for bug #682850
<seb128>  
<seb128> otherwise out of gvfs
<robert_ancell> bug 682850
<seb128> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gvfs/+bug/682850
<seb128> no bot?
<robert_ancell> seb128, you're the bot today?
<seb128> lol
<seb128> no :p
<seb128> well we can as well wait for that on to land in git
<seb128> so don't bother maybe for that update
<micahg> robert_ancell: ugh, that will make migrating away from xulrunner a little harder in the stable releases
<robert_ancell> micahg, didn't upstream just say "no more xulrunner?". So hopefully everyone will be migrating away from it anyway!
<seb128> robert_ancell, other topic while I'm still around, did you figure the documentation index ?index... error thing? I saw you fixed it for nautilus but other components have similar bugs
<robert_ancell> seb128, which other components?  gedit seemed fine, and I haven't seen any others
<seb128> robert_ancell, it was reported on gnome-panel at least
<robert_ancell> the issue seemed to be anything accessing documentation from gnome-user-guide (which is V3 now)
<micahg> robert_ancell: yes, so I was going to try to backport some of the newer versions of apps based on webkit, but most require some version of 1.3 as the minimum, I was thinking to rename 1.4 to like webkit-1.4 or something in the stable releases so these apps can basically be forklifted in
<robert_ancell> micahg, renaming causes so many ongoing issues...
<micahg> robert_ancell: well, it would just be for lucid and maverick and only for xul rdepends, I wouldn't want to touch the regular webkit aside from upgrading it :)
<micahg> upgrading from the same branch 1.2.x
<seb128> robert_ancell, urg, side effect of upgrading I guess, but it means we have user documentation describing GNOME3 on a GNOME 2.32?
<robert_ancell> seb128, yes it's a bit of a mess. I'm hoping our doc people will modify it to fit.  In the case of nautilus some deprecated feature documentation was gone, but that's not a big issue for us
<seb128> it's not like the documentation was uptodate or than users read it anyway...
<RAOF> Ah.  *That's* why the overlay scrollbars are ugly on banshee!
<RAOF> Incidentally, if we felt like making banshee start up faster we should really look into AOT compilation for some mono stuff; Banshee spends a bit more than 2 seconds JITing code on my machine.
<TheMuso> youch
<TheMuso> RAOF: Something for next cycle.
<RAOF> Yup.
<TheMuso> I can only imagine how mono performs on atom CPUs.
<TheMuso> Or arm for that matter.
<RAOF> Not all of that is during startup, though; that's for an entire run.  Much of it will be during startup, though.
<TheMuso> Yeah.
<RAOF> Yeah.  They'd *really* want AOT wherever possible.
<TheMuso> Wow, I wonder if the international issues are biting others on here... Appears to be between US/EU, or somewhere in the US.
<RAOF> TheMuso: What are you seeing?  Unable to resolve canonical.com again?
<TheMuso> RAOF: Yeah. From what I've been reading, there are some major issues with a teer 1 provider in the US, level 3 or another of the big providers.
<TheMuso> They were ok overnight it seems, but are falling over again, as evidence by me no longer being able to resolve ubuntu/canonical.com again.
<TheMuso> ...and my several freenode and other IRC network dropouts.
<RAOF> Eh.  Whatever it is, it's not hitting my internode connection.
<TheMuso> No, since Internode takes other paths out of Oz.
<TheMuso> SOmething which I wish Telstra would do...
<TheMuso> But overall I am on a good bundle with telstra atm for phone/mobile/net, and can get cable so, that makes things difficult if I want to move.
<TheMuso> I'd go internode in a heartbeat if the line I had here was deacent quality/speed.
<TheMuso> I actually find it weird that for Telstra, we go via the US to get to EU.
<RAOF> I find it a bit weird that there are different routes for different carriers.
<RAOF> It's not like we've got a huge web of intercontinental links.
<TheMuso> Yeah. A deacent provider should depend on multiple routes.
<TheMuso> Trouble is, Telstra half owns Reach, one of the major teer 1 providers for Aus, so...
<TheMuso> They aren't likely to use anybody else.
<didrocks> good morning
<jasoncwarner> morning didrocks!
<pitti> good morning everyone!
<jasoncwarner> morning pitti
<pitti> hey jasoncwarner, how are you?
<jasoncwarner> pretty good.., you ?
<jasoncwarner> btw...looks like with you springing forward, and me falling back...the 1:1 is now 2 hours earlier ;) what do you think? want to jump on mumble?
<pitti> jasoncwarner: sure
<pitti> jasoncwarner: I'm in
<jasoncwarner> just realizsed...never setup mumble after installing SSD...give me a few minutes
<didrocks> morning jasoncwarner, pitti!
<ricotz> pitti, good morning
<ricotz> pitti, could you take a look at https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libgtop2/2.28.3-0ubuntu1
<rodrigo_> morning
<desrt> rodrigo_: hihi
<rodrigo_> hey desrt
<ricotz> rodrigo_, hey
<rodrigo_> hi ricotz
<ricotz> rodrigo_, feel free to update some ppa packages :), i will stop for now, but i will take care of gedit
<glatzor> moring mvo
<pitti> ricotz: what about it? (sorry, was on phone)
<mvo> hey glatzor!
<pitti> ricotz: you want it NEWed?
<glatzor> mvo, I am not sure which lintian tags to use by default.
<pitti> meh, LP going down?
<rodrigo_> ricotz, I have updated a few in some spare moments, but I'm bug fixing, so going slowly
<didrocks> rodrigo_: hey
<ricotz> pitti, hi, yes ;)
<glatzor> mvo, I already added the option to load distro specific tags files
<rodrigo_> hi didrocks, pitti
<didrocks> rodrigo_: any idea why a gobject_new can crash apart from "no more memory"? https://launchpadlibrarian.net/68241093/Stacktrace.txt
<didrocks> rodrigo_: the line is   child = g_object_new (NA_TYPE_TRAY_CHILD, NULL);
<rodrigo_> didrocks, looking
<mvo> glatzor: oh, I did not see that in the code
<didrocks> (and yeah, it's not a computing error, we are using that functions hundreds of time)
<mvo> glatzor: look at the data/lintian-checks from my branch, its a subset of the ftp-master tags from lintian
<mvo> glatzor: but I removed the ones that where obviously not good
<mvo> glatzor: like /opt in the package
<mvo> thats fine for us
<xclaesse> argh, postinst of the new kernel has a stupid typo
<ricotz> rodrigo_, no problem, i wont upload to it for some hours
<xclaesse> && die
<xclaesse> instead  of || die
<rodrigo_> didrocks, hmm
<didrocks> rodrigo_: puzzling, isn't it? ;)
<mvo> glatzor: just fyi, I look at #742935 next
<pitti> ricotz: done
<ricotz> pitti, thanks
<mvo> glatzor: looks like a double release of a fd or something
<rodrigo_> didrocks, if it's not a coding error, it's either out of memory or memory corruption
<glatzor> mvo, I would like to make the changes more transparent. so not removing checks but commenting them out. But how to handle overrides? should we call lintian twice? once with --no-override and the fatal tags and once with the non-fatal ones?
<rodrigo_> although the object pointer (0x1000000) looks weird indeed
<mvo> glatzor: that sounds sensible
<mvo> glatzor: did you merge my other stuff as well? like the exitcode check ? currently we report bad-quality even if its lintian itself that is failing :)
<rodrigo_> didrocks, can you easily replicate?
<didrocks> rodrigo_: not at all
<rodrigo_> didrocks, memory corruption then?
<didrocks> rodrigo_: yeah, the new object pointer adress is what tell me it's out of memory
<didrocks> rodrigo_: I would say so
<didrocks> rodrigo_: will confirm with Neil as well, thanks :)
<rodrigo_> didrocks, no problem :)
<rodrigo_> didrocks, if someone can replicate, running it with valgrind will give the answer
<didrocks> rodrigo_: yeah, but it seems $random, even if I try to add/remove a lot of apps appearing in the systray
<rodrigo_> ok
<seb128> hey
<rodrigo_> hi seb128
<seb128> hey rodrigo_, how are you?
<rodrigo_> seb128, I'm fine, and you?
<seb128> I'm a bit tired today, I stayed up quite late, but otherwise ok
<seb128> getting some coffee so it should be better after that ;-)
<rodrigo_> yeah, saw last night you were late working
<seb128> pitti, hey
<pitti>  bonjour seb128
<seb128> pitti, how are you?
<pitti> seb128: pretty well, thanks! et toi?
<seb128> I'm a bit tired but fine otherwise
<seb128> pitti, did you already see the retracers crash on what is current in the amd64 log?
<seb128> in get_source_tree
<pitti> I didn't, no
<seb128> pitti, do you want apport bugs for such cases or should I just declare the bug buggy untag and restart?
<pitti> AssertionError: could not determine source tree root directory
<seb128> (well restart when launchpad will be back to rw)
<pitti> seb128: I think this is worth fixing
<pitti> seb128: in particualr, it should just skip the source stack trace here, as it usually seems to work
<pitti> seb128: I'll fix it right now
<seb128> pitti, ok, thanks a lot!
<pitti> hm, hang on
<pitti> this assertion is really justified, I guess it's a special case with a weird naming
<seb128> oh?
<pitti> PYTHONPATH=. python -c 'import apport; print apport.packaging.get_source_tree ("indicator-weather", "/tmp/x", "11.03.27+repack-0ubuntu1")'
<pitti> hm, that doesn't crash here :/
 * pitti tries in teh chroot
<pitti> ImportError: /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6: version `GLIBCXX_3.4.14' not found (required by /tmp/tmpfREm2I/usr/lib/libapt-pkg.so.4.10)
<pitti> le huh?
<pitti> apt-get itself is broken now :/
<pitti> ah, ignore me; was in the lucid dchroot
<pitti> seb128: meh, NFC I'm afraid; I can't reproduce it in the chroot either :/
<pitti> and now we need to wait for LP to come back anyway, once it does I'll try a manual apport-retrace
<seb128> pitti, ok
<seb128> does anyone know if geoclue will activate on demand?
<seb128> bug #740484 is a crasher that some users seem to get when it start but the computer is not online yet
<seb128> but that's a non issue if it get respawned later I guess
<seb128> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/geoclue/+bug/740484
<seb128> other polkit-gnome has an assert quite some users are running into: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/policykit-1-gnome/+bug/741425
<seb128> could be a crash on logout though
<chrisccoulson_> good morning everyone
<glatzor> mvo, since lp is down I will merge the lintian branch in the evening.
<mvo> glatzor: thnx
<mvo> glatzor: yeah, its a bit anoying for me as well, if only bzr would stay up
<glatzor> mvo, you can now ship a separate data/lintian-nonfatal.tags.Ubuntu and data/lintian-fatal.tags.Ubuntu
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson_
<seb128> hey glatzor mvo
<chrisccoulson_> hi seb128, how are you?
<glatzor> mvo, I recently discovered "import lsb_release; lsb_release.get_distro_information()". Makes life easier.
<seb128> chrisccoulson_, I'm fine though a bit tired, what about you?
<glatzor> hello seb128 !
<glatzor> seb128, mvo, see you guys! have to go to work now.
<seb128> have fun ;-)
<chrisccoulson_> seb128 - yeah, a bit tired too. bug 663294 is giving me a real headache now
<rodrigo_> oh, lp in read-only mode
<mvo> glatzor: great work!
<mvo> glatzor: thanks and see you
<glatzor> mvo, I plan to revert 596.1.1 and just switch to a non-interactive session if the controlling terminal cannot be attached
<glatzor> mvo, it was a stupid idea to keep the tty open all the time.
<glatzor> have a nice day!
<GunnarHj> pitti: Good day, Martin!
<GunnarHj> pitti: Even if you seem to be busy, do you have time to sponsor the l-s side of bug 742857? Basically you already read to document last Friday.
<GunnarHj> pitti: While I think the document should be uploaded for Natty, I suggest that translations are postponed as explained in comment #7.
<mvo> dpm: hello! sorry if I missed your answer yesterday, but when is the next natty langpack upload planned?
<mvo> dpm: there is a file overwrite issue (with packagekit.mo) in the current ones
<pitti> mvo: do you need one urgently? I was planning to do a new -base one for beta-2
<mvo> not urgently, just would be nice to know when to expect the auto-upgrade-tester to go more "non-red" again
<dpm> mvo, sorry, it was me who missed the question, pitti can answer this one best ^
<pitti> mvo: bug 744831 you men?
<pitti> mean
<pitti> hey GunnarHj
<mvo> yes
<didrocks> Sweetshark: hey, did you get to the static unity Quicklist bug on libreoffice?
<pitti> GunnarHj: oh, sure, I'll be happy to
<pitti> GunnarHj: let's see how far I get while LP is readonly
<pitti> ssh: connect to host bazaar.launchpad.net port 22: Connection refused
<pitti> meh
<pitti> GunnarHj: I'll do that as soon as it comes back online
<Sweetshark> didrocks: bug 720716?
<GunnarHj> pitti: Thanks!
<pitti> GunnarHj: it's still sitting in my mailbox, was planning to do that anyway today (was busy with a rather big patch/debugging session Mo/Tu, sorry)
<Tommeh> Hi all. Currently having fun with gnome-shell, but missing all the themes (and no apparent application to switch themes either)
<Sweetshark> didrocks: I will give it a try today.
<Tommeh> Currently have gnome-shell installed via the gnome3 ppa, on Natty 11.04 Beta.
<seb128> launchpad is back
<didrocks> Sweetshark: yeah, this is important to design and we should give time to translator
<GunnarHj> pitti: No problem. I understand that you always are busy with about 100 things. :)
<Tommeh> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<Tommeh>   gnome-themes: Depends: gtk3-engines-pixbuf which is a virtual package.
<Sweetshark> didrocks: backports were a bit nasty this time around.
<Tommeh> That's what I get when I try to install gnome-themes from the PPA.
<didrocks> I think natty > backports :)
<seb128> Tommeh, hi, try #ubuntu for user questions but basically GNOME dropped the appearance capplet and there is only one theme available for the new gtk
<desrt> Tommeh: and gnome-tweak-tool is your friend
<seb128> right, natty > backports, I agree with didrocks
<Sweetshark> didrocks: me too. But my inbox disagrees usually.
<desrt> Tommeh: you can just check it out of git and run it directly from the checkout.  no need to compile.
<Tommeh> desrt/seb128: thanks.
<desrt> Tommeh: it lets you change quite a lot of things, including the theme
<didrocks> Sweetshark: check with chrisccoulson_ and dpm for translation btw, they dealt with that in the same case than yours (meaning: translation not in launchpad)
<seb128> pitti, I'm restarting the i386 retracer and let the amd64 down for you to debug
<pitti> seb128: oh, LP back up?
<desrt> Tommeh: changing the theme of the shell itself is somewhat more complicated -- it involves replacing a directory in /usr... but it is possible
<pitti> seb128: I'm currnetly logged into the amd64 one
<Tommeh> Currently I'd be happy with the stnadard theme
<seb128> pitti, yes, it's back
<pitti> nice
<Tommeh> I'm on some form of horrid 'fallback' gnome theme at the minute :)
<pitti> awesome
<desrt> Tommeh: oh.  install the gnome-themes-standard package
<desrt> it has adwaita in it
<Tommeh> Ah, I've done that since removing a conflicting package (gnome-accessibility-themes)
<Tommeh> But gnome-themes won't install from the PPA
<Tommeh> It's still the natty version.
<Tommeh> Due to the error above
<desrt> don't worry about that one.  gnome-themes-standard is what is necessary
<Tommeh> Depending on a package that isn't in the PPA
<Tommeh> Ahh, OK
<Tommeh> Logout time -- brb :)
<desrt> just logout -> back in
<desrt> ya :)
<pitti> seb128: hm, did you just rm the log file?
<seb128> pitti, rotated it sorry
<pitti> ah
<seb128> pitti, it's log_20110406.gz
<pitti> yep, thanks
<Tommeh> Bang, I has a theme.
<Tommeh> Many thanks desrt :)
<seb128> pitti, I want a clean log will make easier to run my "get recent bugs which get duplicates"
<pitti> *nod*
<desrt> Tommeh: no problems :)
<pitti> GunnarHj: great job!
<Tommeh> It doesn't seem to like letting me manage two screens .. I have one screen that I can switch between workspaces, and one that's just 'stuck' with one workspace... Almost like it was never intended to be managed.
<pitti> GunnarHj: one question, why did you add a no-op on_button_load_help_clicked()?
<pitti> GunnarHj: isn't setting the uri button propery enough?
<Tommeh> But that's almost nice, as I can have persistant applications (like xchat) in on screen, whilst switching others.
<pitti> GunnarHj: it works fine without; do you mind if I remove the dummy handler while merging?
<GunnarHj> pitti: If it works, I don't mind at all.
<GunnarHj> pitti: GTK is another area I know very little about. :(
<pitti> GunnarHj: uploaded, thanks a lot!
<desrt> Tommeh: multi-monitor is a sore spot in the shell. a bunch of changes landed recently (a couple of weeks ago) to vastly improve the situation but it still leaves quite a bit to be desired
<desrt> Tommeh: i sense that it's not a priority for them right now
<Tommeh> desrt: I guess so! Well, at least it's not just me :)
<Tommeh> I'm happier to know things are weird/broken for everyone, rather than just on my machine.
<desrt> Tommeh: the gnome3 PPA is, frankly, one of the worst ways to try gnome3 at the moment
<desrt> it's very deeply broken
<Tommeh> Yep :(
<desrt> which is quite understandable, given that the people behind it have their concerns in other places at the moment
<desrt> i expect it will get quite a lot better after the ubuntu release
<Tommeh> Finger's crossed :)
<pitti> desrt: FWIW, currently writing GNOME30-Live-latest.iso to an USB stick; I'm curious :)
<desrt> pitti: i understand the fedora 15 beta is one of the best choices...
<cassidy> seb128, since I updated to Natty, Evolution took the bad habit to be confused with some of my imap mails: the title of the mail is correct, but when I click on it it displays a unrelated old mail. Is that a known issue ?
<seb128> not that I know about
<seb128> like the preview doesn't match you select in the list?
<seb128> what protocol do you use?
<desrt> pitti: let me know what you think, in any case
<pitti> desrt: the mini 10 touchpad still sucks even with gnome 3!
<pitti> j/k
<cassidy> seb128, imap+.  The preview is correct but the displayed mail is not
<desrt> pitti: and the trackpoint on my thinkpad is still red!  i thought this new CSS theme would allow me to customise that!
<desrt> where is my refund?!
<seb128> cassidy, like if you double click to open it?
<seb128> cassidy, I never open email I just read them in the preview
<cassidy> seb128, oh yeah. By preview I meant the title in the treeview
<cassidy> seb128, the mail is wrong in the pane displaying the full mail and if I double click on it
<seb128> cassidy, then no, works correctly there
<seb128> check on #evolution on the gnome irc maybe
<cassidy> seb128, how hard are you patching evolution? ie, should I open an upstream or lp bug ?
<seb128> upstream
<cassidy> k
<seb128> or ask on #evolution if you want to start
<seb128> we do patch a bit but only for ui tweaks
<seb128> we don't do anything which has to do with the mailer
<pitti> desrt: hm, I see the initial throbber, then nothing happens any more, got some trouble booting
<seb128> pitti, wait a bit I guess
<seb128> pitti, how much did you wait?
<pitti> a minute or so
<pitti> but the first time I tried it it booted in some 15 s
<pitti> but then I tried suspend, and it crashed, so I rebooted
<pitti> and now it doesn't come back
<seb128> I need to try it again as well
<pitti> let me fiddle a bit
<seb128> but I think I'm going to miss having a launcher on screen with GNOME3
<pitti> ah, coming back now; took a lot longer, though
<pitti> desrt: so, works pretty well here! not too much fun without wifi, though (bloody broadcom chipset..)
<pitti> desrt: by now I got used to Windows - search term - enter to launch apps, so that's pretty familiar :)
<desrt> pitti: did you at least take a peek at the new networkmanager integration?
<pitti> the theme is too generous with spacing/sizing for a small netbook screen, but otherwise this looks quite nice :)
<desrt> (even without networks)
<desrt> pitti: yes.  i agree quite a lot on the theme.  i just switched to another -- inset.
<pitti> desrt: I did, yes; I really like the status message there
<desrt> pitti: i mean about the menu
<desrt> network-manager with the translucent shell theme for menus
<desrt> pretty neat
<pitti> desrt: the "wired - cable unplugged" and "wireless - firmware missing", that's quite clean
<desrt> pitti: actually, those notifications are still annoying in some cases
<pitti> desrt: yeah, very glossy
<pitti> desrt: I didn't get any notification yet
<desrt> you still often see the "disconnected from network xyz" when opening your laptop after having disconnected from the network a long time ago
<desrt> and the "don't show this again" button doesn't actually work :/
<pitti> the black translucent windows look very elegant (I'm just not a big fan of dark themes, but still)
<desrt> pitti: i agree quite a lot.  the black is just too... black
<desrt> but the gloss isn't so bad
<pitti> desrt: is there a way to quick launch your favourite apps? such as Windows+1 or so?
<desrt> i think the idea was so that it would fade into the background and let you focus on the work
<desrt> pitti: no.
<desrt> this is a point that unity wins on, i think
<desrt> at the same time, it's not so important
<desrt> since windows+f+enter is sufficient to get firefox
<pitti> right
<desrt> and the search gives higher preference to items that you've marked as favourites (ie: on the dash)
<pitti> desrt: work flow wise they are really quite similar to me
<desrt> so that helps
<pitti> the indicator layout, the windows/overlay dash handling, etc.
<desrt> ya
<pitti> how do I opena nautilus window, though?
<desrt> there are quite some similarities
<desrt> pitti: add 'files' to your dash
<desrt> (should be there by default?)
<pitti> apparently I'm too blind to see a 'Home' button or so
<desrt> pitti: i think it's not there, actually
<desrt> and the apparent lack of meaningful desktop is also somewhat distressing
<pitti> win+hom+enter works
<pitti> oh, I can't dnd to the background
<desrt> no.  the desktop is no longer shown as the background
<desrt> it's just some folder in ~ now, with no special meaning
<desrt> (wtf?)
<desrt> you can turn the desktop back on with gnome-tweak-tool but apparently the designers found the idea of a desktop to be distracting
<pitti> ah, I saw a notification now, from RB
<desrt> so it's off by default
<seb128> I like having a desktop ;-)
<desrt> seb128: ya... no kidding
<desrt> i also like having a minimise button
<seb128> that I don't care much about
<desrt> fortunate it's still possible to get both of them back again
<pitti> well, it tends to make people not care about where they put their files, though
<pitti> my mother's desktop looks horrible
<pitti> basically everything she ever touched
<desrt> pitti: that's sort of the point, actually
<pitti> right
<desrt> 3.2 is going to bring some tracker/zeitgeist love
<pitti> I think the zeitgeist approach and search is a better long-term strategy
<desrt> yup
<pitti> desrt: I've never been a big fan of these tracker/indexer/etc. stuff, I know where my stuff is
<pitti> but admittedly zeitgeist feels pretty good and magic to me
<desrt> i almost get the impression that the desktop was disabled to increase the pain-level to push us in that direction faster
<pitti> it even digs out some images I recently looked at from the evolution cache (email attachment), etc.
<desrt> magic is magic!
<pitti> desrt: well, if people need to be taught to get used to a new workflow, why not do it all the way through :)
<desrt> pitti: i won't comment on the motiviations of the designers of the shell
<pitti> being an old fart in this the concept of files and folders is deeply molten into my brain
<desrt> because they're a bit of a mystery to me, to be honest
<pitti> but then again, on my Android phone I never think in terms of files and folders
<pitti> (where I'm only a user, not a developer)
<pitti> and it really feels right
<desrt> thus far i've managed to avoid getting a smartphone
<desrt> but i guess that will end quite soon -- nexus S is in canada on april 14
<pitti> desrt: that's the problem -- once you have one, you won't ever go back :)
<desrt> which means that from april 14 to april 24th or so, i'll get no work done because of angry birds
<pitti> that would have been a nice bday present :)
<desrt> funny you should mention that because my birthday is quite soon
<desrt> but i don't think i can wait :)
<pitti> desrt: so I think the biggest thing that I miss from the current live image is a good files/document search/log integration (or maybe I haven't found it yet)
<pitti> desrt: when?
<pitti> mine is April 14th
<desrt> pitti: i think you don't miss it -- it's just not there
<desrt> may 3
<pitti> natty beta 2, nexus S
<desrt> same as david barth :)
<pitti> desrt: hm, I thought pushing people to work more document and less app centric was a major goal?
<desrt> pitti: ya.  i think that's complete BS to be honest
<desrt> gnome-shell SCREAMS app-centric
<pitti> there should at least be some links to the standard XDG dirs
<desrt> (as does unity)
<pitti> documents/photos/etc.
<desrt> i'm not a fan
<pitti> unity+zeitgeist is sort of a hybrid
<pitti> if you search stuff, it comes up with files and apps
<pitti> still no xdg dir links, though
<desrt> this is not usually what i think of when i think doc-centric
<pitti> yes, I agree
<desrt> finding docs is one thing, sure
<desrt> but the *identity* of what is open already, and what you're working with
<desrt> in both unity and g-s, it's very much tied to the application icon
<pitti> I mean, I don't need/want it to find all my source checkouts etc., but finding music or LibO files would be great
<desrt> which i think is extremely wrong on a very fundamental level
<pitti> windows + floyd wall enter
<pitti> should kick me right into RB with The Wall playing
<desrt> you could pick a better album :)
<desrt> (jokes)
<pitti> windows + apo should show me my Apocalyptica albums, etc.
<desrt> ah.  that's good stuff, now!
<pitti> or windows + tagname all my photos which are tagged with that
<pitti> but I guess that's still a looong way to go
<desrt> i think we'll see this happening quite soon
<desrt> (or things like this)
<desrt> it's a big feature item for 3.2
<pitti> that sounds all very zeitgeist/trackerish indeed
<seb128> you guys are keyboard freaks, I'm wondering what normal user want ;-)
<desrt> i think i want to kill the dash
<desrt> not sure what i'd replace it with, though
<desrt> maybe nothing
<desrt> the window switcher applet was actually sort of nice :)
<desrt> it listed the windows you had open (ignoring tabs, this is equivalent to documents)
<desrt> so.. quite good!
<pitti> desrt: the alt+tab one looks suspiciously like the XFCE one :)
<desrt> ya.. don't get me started on alt+tab
<desrt> that's the other thing on my gnome-shell hate list :)
<desrt> again -- application centric.  lame.
<pitti> desrt: I guess I'm enough of a design philistine to not care too much :)
<desrt> i fail to understand how gmail is any more related to facebook than it is to my word processor document
<desrt> (which to drive the point home could very easily be either google docs or libreoffice)
<seb128> pitti, hum, the i386 retracer crashed on the same assertion
<pitti> seb128: ok, I'll stop playing with gnome3 now, and turn my attention to this :)
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<pitti> seb128: I can reproduce it in the chroot, now need to track it down
<desrt> pitti: thanks for your opinions, btw
<rodrigo_> pitti, what was the nvidia's GL problem you talked about yesterday?
<rodrigo_> pitti, http://paste.ubuntu.com/590160/ <- could it be this?
<seb128> rodrigo_, what problem? the cairo one?
<cassidy> seb128, #evolution has been surprisingly  helpful. I fixed the issue by dropping my mail cache and opened https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=646898
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes
<seb128> cassidy, they usually are ;-)
<pitti> desrt: so in summary, I really like the simplified network/bluetooth/a11y settings and the general design; more netbook friendly theming/window sizes and better file/XDG dir access are the main quirks that I see
<seb128> rodrigo_, the nvidia binary driver create quite some ram use for each process using gl
<seb128> rodrigo_, which is basically every gtk application when cairo is built with gl
<desrt> pitti: nice to hear from positive words from "the other team" :p
<pitti> rodrigo_: I'm afraid not; I was talking about bug 725434
<pitti> desrt: well, it's not like we wouldn't have these problems :)
<rodrigo_> pitti, but a cairo app (evo in this case) might crash with out-of-memory conditions because of that bug, right?
<pitti> rodrigo_: ah, yes
<rodrigo_> pitti, ok, thanks
<cdbs> rodrigo_: Your work on the PPA looks nice, now that GNOME 3 is close to release. You can take a look at my own packaging of gdm at ppa:bilalakhtar/gnome-builds
<cdbs> rodrigo_: I don't think that version of gdm is okay, but somehow it builds and runs
<cdbs> hence I didn't upload it to the PPA
<cdbs> where the PPA is the GNOME3 ppa
<rodrigo_> cdbs, cool, and yes, we need more testing, so keep it there for now
<rodrigo_> cdbs, I'll install and test it as soon as I've got a minute free
<cdbs> rodrigo_: thanks
<cdbs> rodrigo_: don't add that PPA, just manually download the package and try it
<rodrigo_> cdbs, yes
<rodrigo_> can someone please merge this -> https://code.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/natty/evolution-couchdb/correct_cache_dir/+merge/56551 (already uploaded)
<seb128> pitti, do you still work on the retracers?
<seb128> rodrigo_, ok
<rodrigo_> seb128, thanks
<seb128> rodrigo_, you're welcome
<rodrigo_> :)
<pitti> seb128: yes, it's quite a bit more difficult than I thought, I'm afraid
<pitti> seb128: was at lunch now, and had some IRC discussions before, too
<seb128> pitti, ok, is that specific to a bug? it started before the launchpad update so shouldn't be it
<seb128> hello mterry
<mterry> seb128, hi!
<seb128> mterry, thanks for the geoname update email, nice to see that you managed to get locations filtered ;-)
<mterry> seb128, yeah, i was excited
<pitti> seb128: if the i386 retracer crashed as well, it doesn't sound too specific
<pitti> seb128: did the i386 one crash on indicator-weather as well?
<seb128> pitti, it's weird it just started today
<Sweetshark> didrocks: Could you give me a hint on how the mapping of application windows to desktop entries works? I removed the libreoffice-javafilter.desktop file here (which is problematic in itself it seems) and ran update-desktop-cache. Unfortunately, my writer windows have now neither a name, nor a icon in the launcher.
<seb128> pitti, dunno, I haven't check the bug it crashed on
<pitti> it's certainly mvo's fault!
<seb128> it's always mvo's fault
<pitti> seb128: the fun thing is that it shouldn't even get that far
<pitti> we don't currently have deb-src lines in the chroots
<pitti> so apt-get source should already fail
<mvo> hmm?
<seb128> oh, so it is mvo's fault!
<pitti> still too early to point blame, let me dig deeper
 * pitti hugs mvo
<seb128> mvo, no worry, retracers crashing again, nothing special ;-)
<mvo> ohhh
 * mvo hides, just in case
<seb128> mvo, but pitti suggested the apt-get source behaviour could have changed if you don't have a deb-src source
<seb128> mvo, but well let him confirm it before investigating ;-)
<mvo> that might be possible, there were changes in this area. from what version to what version?
<seb128> mvo, that started this night so something uploaded yesterday?
<seb128> they update daily
<didrocks> Sweetshark: the mapping is made by bamf, there is a debug interface to know where the mapping is done. Anyway, just edit the default desktop files we set it the launcher (you don't need libreoffice to be running for that)
<mvo> seb128: hm, there is a new apt and a new python-apt but it *should* only affect multiarch setups
<mvo> seb128: can I see the trace of the crash?
<seb128> mvo, well as said it might be something else, it's just what pitti wrote before
 * rodrigo_ lunch
<seb128> mvo, it's not "crashing", it's that apt-get source should fail because there is no deb-src source but it doesn't apparently
<seb128> mvo, where "fail" might be the return value changed
<mvo> ok
<seb128> mvo, but wait for pitti to debug it before spending time on that
<mvo> ok
<seb128> nessita, hola seniorita ;-)
<pitti> a mere apt-get source exits with 100, that looks fine
<nessita> seb128: bon jour monsieur!
<seb128> nessita, how are you?
<nessita> pretty good! having some net issues, but good :-)
<nessita> you?
<seb128> I'm fine thanks ;-)
<pitti> meh, as soon as I add some debugging it crashes
<pitti> or hangs, or immediately exits with 0
<Sweetshark> didrocks: well, my writer window showed up as "LibreOffice Small Device Import Filter", which it seems to get from /usr/share/applications/libreoffice-javafilter.desktop. So I removed that and ran update-desktop-cache hoping I would now get the entry from /usr/share/applications/libreoffice-writer.desktop. Unfortunately, now I get neither an icon nor a title.
<seb128> Sweetshark, how do you start those?
<didrocks> ok, letting seb128 dealing with it, back to hack! ;)
<seb128> didrocks, ;-)
<seb128> didrocks, that's the spirit!
<didrocks> seb128: well, I hate X, it's definitive :)
<Sweetshark> seb128: Launcher->Applications->LibreOffice Writer (in "Most Frequently Used")
<seb128> hum
<seb128> can you try to double click on an odt from nautilus for example
<seb128> just to see if it behaves the same?
<Sweetshark> seb128: still "LibreOffice Small Device Import Filter"
<seb128> did that issue start recently?
<Sweetshark> seb128: no, I think its older.
 * Sweetshark builds LO much more than using it.
<Sweetshark> both libreoffice-javafilter.desktop and libreoffice-writer.desktop suspiciously have the same "Exec:" line.
<seb128> right, it tries to match running binaries to .desktop
<seb128> but when started with something gio it should get the information on what .desktop to use from gio directly
<seb128> Sweetshark, bug #751025
<seb128> mterry, do you feel like debugging the crash you just reported? it seems like bug #434825 and a downstream crash likely
<seb128> mterry, the call is coming from libindicate
<mterry> seb128, sure, I can look at it
<seb128> mterry, thanks
<seb128> mterry, do you have things to do otherwise or do you want extra bug?
<seb128> mterry, if I don't ping you with anything specific maybe just tackle indicator bugs if you feel like working on
<mterry> seb128, I've got a couple things, but if you have extra bugs just lying around, I can queue them up
<seb128> mterry, ok, I've nothing specific right now but I will do another indicator stack bug review today so I might bounce a few your way
<mterry> k
<pitti> seb128: erk, I ran it locally on bug 751695, which worked, so I now killed the core dump; but the i386 crashed on teh same problem, so I'll now move on to that and will restart the amd64 one in the meantime
<seb128> mterry, having the geonames translation thing sorted would be nice but I'm not sure how doable that is for natty
<seb128> pitti, ok
<seb128> pitti, let me know if I can help there
<seb128> Sweetshark, so yeah, seems there is an unity bug there, I will get Jason to join the channel to discuss it when he comes online (he's in the U.S)
<mterry> seb128, I feel like it's close
<seb128> mterry, btw ev said yesterday he would do a db update and ask I.S to roll it
<seb128> mterry, I want to see if that fixes case like san francisco or lima not having any matching result
<mterry> seb128, oh ok.  hopefully after merging my filter branch?
<seb128> mterry, he said your review was on his list for today
<seb128> so yeah, that should land as well
<mterry> seb128, I think my filter will.  I *think* lima for example was just dropping off after too many hits.  Sorting by population brings it to the top
<Sweetshark> seb128: #751025 is close on it. I also get the window show up as "LibreOffice Small Device Format Importer". If I "apt-get remove libreoffice-filter-mobiledev" I get no title to the window at all. Calc on the other hand just works fine.
<seb128> mterry, oh, great!
<seb128> Sweetshark, https://code.launchpad.net/~pitti/bamf/libreoffice-705461/+merge/49245
<seb128> Sweetshark, if that's of any use that's the commit pitti did to get libreoffice to work
<pitti> I might have missed a few cases, I more or less just adapted teh OO.o bits
<pitti> seb128: hm, how can the i386 one have crashed in the log and yet the process is still running?
<pitti> ooh
<pitti> 1000     25626  0.0  0.0  25632  1940 ?        D    00:08   0:00 apt-get --assume-yes source indicator-weather=11.03.27+repack-0ubuntu1
<pitti> that thing has hanged for 14 hours now
<seb128> pitti, weird
 * pitti kills all stuff and starts over
<seb128> Sweetshark, I've a suspicion something broke broke the gio .desktop matching logic
<seb128> Sweetshark, but in any case seems an unity issue, not one on your side
<Sweetshark> seb128: well, it seems to work for Calc windows, but fails for writer. The desktop files look the same though.
<Sweetshark> (modulo the issue with the libreoffice-javafilter.desktop file, but I still get no icon after uninstalling libreoffice-filter-mobiledev)
<ameyJ> hi, where should I look for,
<ameyJ> if I want indicator applet session apis
<seb128> ameyJ, hey, what api exactly? what are you trying to do?
<ameyJ> @seb128, I want to set MeMenu to away when I am locking my computer either via menu or via ctrl+alt+L
<seb128> there is no indicator specific api for that
<seb128> your im client likely has dbus apis to do that though
<ameyJ> ok, so you mean to say. I should look for dbus event
<ameyJ> ok cool
<ameyJ> thansk seb128. will work on this direction now
<pitti> seb128: this is really driving me mad.. I run "apport-retrace -uvo /tmp/x.crash --auth /tmp/auth 752174" and get that crash, with a dubious debugging output
<pitti> I run it again, and it exits (with 0!) immediately
<pitti> kenvandine, didrocks, seb128: do you know what needs to happen to make the new overlay scrollbars the default?
<pitti> besides the GTK patch (which we have now), there's liboverlay-scrollbar-0.1-dev, but merely installing the library won't magically enable them, or will it?
<pitti> do we need to build something against liboverlay-scrollbar-0.1-dev?
<seb128> pitti, nothing, just install overlay-scrollbar
<kenvandine> that is it
<seb128> pitti, gtk will open it and use it available
<pitti> *scratches head*, which package is that?
<pitti> the overlay-scrollbar source only builds the library
<pitti> Package: overlay-scrollbar
<pitti> Binary: liboverlay-scrollbar-0.1-0, liboverlay-scrollbar-0.1-dev
<didrocks> liboverlay-scrollbar-0.1-0 is enough for the current gtk
<didrocks> liboverlay-scrollbar-0.1-dev isn't needed because it's a dlopen
<pitti> ah I remember that hack (aside from the fact that I missed the bad packaging (non-SONAME-specific files in the library)
<TeTeT> seb128: hi, would you know anything about a replacement for vinagre in 11.04 or 11.10?
<pitti> didrocks: do you have time to fix it, or want me to?
<pitti> so anyway, I'll deal with the MIR and seeding
<didrocks> pitti: go on with it, of course :) what about the soname?
<seb128> pitti, talk to kenvandine about those please
<pitti> didrocks: /usr/share/apport/general-hooks/ayatana-scrollbar.py
<seb128> pitti, didrocks has enough to do with unity he doesn't work on scrollbars
<pitti> we can't ship that in a soname package
<pitti> seb128: *nod*
<seb128> pitti, kenvandine is handling the scrollbars
<seb128> kenvandine, ^
<didrocks> pitti: I didn't add the apport hook, so yeah, kenvandine :p
 * kenvandine reads back
<kenvandine> pitti, ok, so we want a separate binary with the apport hook?
<pitti> kenvandine: so, we could do a proper "overlay-scrollbar" package which ships the apport hook and depends on the library (to avoid having to seed a particular abi of the library), or rename the hook to be ayatana-scrollbar-0.1.py
<kenvandine> i'll do that
<pitti> the latter is easier, the former cleaner IMHO
<pitti> but like that it won't pass MIR
<kenvandine> i'll do the former
<kenvandine> makes more sense
<pitti> kenvandine: awesome; please let me know when you upload, I'll shepherd it through NEW then
<kenvandine> will do
<pitti> and I'll do the MIR review in the meantime
<pitti> kenvandine: cheers!
<seb128> Sweetshark, is the matching bug blocking you for other things?
<pitti> root@osageorange:/# apt-get --assume-yes source update-manager=1:0.147.1
<pitti> Reading package lists... 0%
<pitti> seb128: ^FYI, I think I'm getting closer..
<pitti> it just stays at 0% without any progress
<seb128> oh
<seb128> so it's mvo's fault!
<pitti> when I downgrade to 0.8.13ubuntu2, it works
<pitti> E: You must put some 'source' URIs in your sources.list
<pitti> and immediately returns
<pitti> root@osageorange:/# apt-get --assume-yes source update-manager=1:0.147.1
<pitti> root@osageorange:/# s... 0%
<chrisccoulson_> ok, this -pie issue with firefox is driving me crazy now, time to look at something else ;)
<pitti> that looks even funnier
<pitti> chrisccoulson_: doesn't work with gcc 4.4?
<chrisccoulson_> pitti - i'm not sure it's entirely a gcc issue
<seb128> chrisccoulson_, how come we don't get the stable version in natty btw? it's still red on versions ;-)
<chrisccoulson_> it might be partly a binutils issue
<chrisccoulson_> seb128 - the version we have is stable already ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson_, I'm surprised you don't get lot of users complaining about the version ;-)
<chrisccoulson_> seb128 - i do ;)
<seb128> they usually tend to do that
<mvo> pitti: hm, I just tried to reproduce on my natty box but I don't get this error
<seb128> even if the code is the same ;-)
<seb128> mvo, did you use a non available version?
<pitti> mvo: I don't get it either locally, just in the retracer chroots :/
<chrisccoulson_> seb128 - it's just not worth a new upload to change the version number ;)
<chrisccoulson_> i'll probably do it before release, but it means i have to upload a new tarball too
<chrisccoulson_> and they're big ;)
<pitti> mvo, seb128: the version is fine, the chroot jsut doesn't have any deb-src
<pitti> but I tried that locally as well
<seb128> pitti, which makes it "non available" ;-)
<pitti> in fact this is the only apt-get call that I have in apport
<pitti> the rest is python-apt
<pitti> but when I wrote that, there was no python-apt way of downloading a source package
<pitti> oh, I figure installing debug packages somehow causes it to act up
<pitti> after logging into the chroot it works
<pitti> but not after retracing something (which installs packages)
<pitti> mvo: is there a python-apt way of doing apt-get source?
<kenvandine> pitti, overlay-scrollbar uploaded
<pitti> mvo: so it's not really your fault, just the new apt seems to have become a lot more sensitive to broken packages
<pitti> kenvandine: \o/ thanks
<kenvandine> np
<mvo> pitti: sorry, on the phone, I follow up in a minute
<pitti> ok, not related to apport-retrace after all, the chroots previously had an older apt, and as soon as I upgrade to 0.8.13.2ubuntu1 things fall over
<seb128> pitti, we can pin the old one for now maybe?
<pitti> yes, that's what I'll do right now
<seb128> mterry, one other thing you can to your buglist if you want that would be nice is the gvfs, libgnome-keyring sibabort issue
<seb128> sig
<mterry> seb128, bug me?
<mterry> bug number me rather :)
<seb128> mterry, the one you opened
<seb128> mterry, 743497
<mterry> seb128, heh, I'm a fire and forget bug reporter
<seb128> mterry, if you don't fix it at least maybe try to open an upstream bug with the debug info upstream mentioned
<mterry> sure
<mterry> i'll give it a pass
<seb128> mterry, upstream is stefw on #gnome-hackers if you want to talk to him about it
<seb128> thanks
<pitti> seb128: ok, I think I have reasonably clean chroots again with pinned apt; restarting, cross fingers :)
<seb128> pitti, \o/
<pitti> seb128: seems to work
<pitti> kenvandine: mind to upload a followup which adds the necessary Replaces:Breaks: (<< 0.1.5-0ubuntu1)?
<rodrigo_> hey Laney
<kenvandine> pitti, whoops
<kenvandine> yeah, sorr
<pitti> kenvandine: (and perhaps fix the overlay-scrollbar desscription while you are at it -- it's not a devel package)
<rodrigo_> jcastro, ping
<jcastro> rodrigo_: hi!
<rodrigo_> jcastro, about http://askubuntu.com/questions/22946/how-do-i-install-the-latest-version-of-gnome-3
<rodrigo_> jcastro, it's better if people just run apt-get dist-upgrade
<jcastro> ok
<rodrigo_> jcastro, and maybe a separate 'apt-get install gnome-shell' if the want g-shell
<jcastro> is there one metapackage or does the dist-upgrade just take care of that?
<rodrigo_> jcastro, dist-upgrade should take care of that
<rodrigo_> jcastro, that's why we didn't add the metapackage
<jcastro> ok fixed
<jcastro> I added a scarier warning up top too
<kenvandine> pitti, uploaded
<jcastro> since downgrading looks like, horrible
<rodrigo_> jcastro, yes, good idea
<rodrigo_> jcastro, hmm, on the UI, no way to do a dist-upgrade?
<pitti> kenvandine: thanks!
<Sweetshark> seb128: Im on bug 720716 . But I will test it with Calc and hope it will work for writer the same way.
 * Sweetshark starts on patch 18 for libreoffice packaging.
<seb128> Sweetshark, you can try to downgrade bamf to 0.2.80-0ubuntu1
<jcastro> rodrigo_: the button works that out as far as I know.
<seb128> Sweetshark, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bamf/0.2.80-0ubuntu1
<rodrigo_> jcastro, ok then
<seb128> Sweetshark, if you downgrade it and restart bamfdaemon and unity and let me know if that fixes your issue that would be nice
<seb128> Sweetshark, well no hurry but when you will have some time
<Sweetshark> seb128: heh.
<Sweetshark> seb128: but yes, I will try.
<fta> seb128, hi, didn't you say last week that the weird locations dialog of the datetime applet was fixed? or did I dream it?
<seb128> fta, what about it? mterry said that the "no listing any result during typing issue" was fixed
<mterry> yeah
<fta> seb128, it's not here, "san francisco" shows nothing between "san" and the "o", then i only get unknown (to me) location, nothing in california
<fta> locationS
<mterry> fta, san francisco is a known bug, I believe due to us not sorting by population yet
<fta> same for sydney.. it have to add "airport" or "international airport", and i end up with a list of hotels or universities close to those airports :P
<fta> hence, very long names, making the indicator too wide :P
<seb128> mterry, is the server limiting the number of returns?
<seb128> mterry, because http://geoname-lookup.ubuntu.com/?query=san francisco doesn't list it either
<mterry> seb128, yes
<seb128> ok
<mterry> seb128, that's why the filtering and sorting branch should make this a lot better
<mterry> no more hotels, and better results on top
<seb128> right, I got those advantage
<mterry> fta, ^
<fta> ok
<seb128> but I didn't know we were dropping locations because of the lack of sorting
<mterry> fta, basically, a fix is in, we just wait for it to be deployed server side
<mterry> seb128, it's a big limit, like 1000 or so, but yeah
<mterry> (I think, would have to look at code)
<seb128> mterry, "http://geoname-lookup.ubuntu.com/?query=san francisco" returns a small list
<mterry> seb128, then maybe the limit is smaller :)
<seb128> but anyway I will try when the server update is rolled
<fta> another weirdness of that datetime indicator, the calendar. the highlighted/selected day is the day of the last desktop restart (useless imho), it used to be the current day
<tedg> seb128, Can you mark the appmenu-gtk part of this as Invalid for Natty?  I can't seem to :-/  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wxwidgets2.8/+bug/722375
<seb128> tedg, done
<tedg> seb128, Thanks!
<seb128> fta, known bug as well, karl is working on it
<seb128> it might be fixed in trunk
<seb128> tedg, yw
<fta> good
<fta> mterry, after a restart/reboot, i have to open the locations dialog 2 or 3 times to be able to use it, the 1st call, i get nothing, the 2nd, it disappears immediately, the 3rd time, i see it for a few seconds then pooff, after that it works fine. is that known?
<seb128> fta, seems like it crashed?
<mterry> fta, huh...
<jcastro> rodrigo_: does the dist-upgrade include gnome-shell?
<rodrigo_> jcastro, no
<jcastro> or does the user have to install that explicitly?
<mterry> fta, if you click elsewhere in the dialog, the locations dialog disappears
<seb128> fta, did you try to start it before being online?
<rodrigo_> jcastro, so add a 'apt-get install gnome-shell' to the instructions
<jcastro> ok
<fta> lets see if it crashed...
<mvo> pitti: still in a meeting (its meeting day today). but you can get the urls for the source via python-apt
<fta> nope: http://paste.ubuntu.com/590294/
<mvo> pitti: I can write some test code in a bit (please kick^Wremind me if I doN't do it)
<pitti> mvo: don't worry for now; apt itself is broken in the chroots, so the python-apt source code retrieval isn't urgent at all
<fta> seb128, i'm always online ;)
<rodrigo_> jcastro, ok, I think they look great now
<rodrigo_> jcastro, let's see what people report
<jcastro> I'm asking a guy to test right now
<fta> difficult to see anything in .xsession-errors. i wish everything was timestamped
<jcastro> rodrigo_: I'll watch this with great attention today to make sure it's kept up to date
<mvo> pitti: ok
<rodrigo_> jcastro, ok, cool
<seb128> rodrigo_, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/evolution-data-server/+bug/750660
<seb128> rodrigo_, is that the evolution-couchdb issue you fixed the other day?
<seb128> rodrigo_, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/evolution-data-server/+bug/744464
<seb128> same
<rodrigo_> seb128, no, but seems related to a problem rye (on #ubuntuone) is having
<seb128> rodrigo_, can you add those to your buglist?
<seb128> seems frequent crashers
<rodrigo_> ok
<seb128> rodrigo_, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/evolution-data-server?field.searchtext=e-addressbook-factory&orderby=-datecreated
<rodrigo_> they are duplicates, right?
<seb128> if you want to review, clean it a bit as well
 * rodrigo_ looks for the 2nd one
<seb128> rodrigo_, they seem similar yes
<seb128> rodrigo_, let's use bug #744464 for it, I assign it to you
<rodrigo_> ok
<seb128> cyphermox, hey
<seb128> cyphermox, did you say you were working on e-d-s crashers? did you work on those e-addressbook-factory ones? just to make sure rodrigo doesn't start on something you already work on
<fta> http://people.ubuntu.com/~fta/lazy-unity.ogv
<seb128> fta, what about it?
<seb128> fta, you need to hit 0,0 for the launcher to stick
<rodrigo_> seb128, wow, lots of e-d-s crashes, I'll go over the list
<cyphermox> seb128, I have a merge up for the addressbook ldap bug, looking into the google one now
<seb128> rodrigo_, those are only the addressbook ones ;-)
<rodrigo_> seb128, oh :)
<seb128> cyphermox, ok, I will review and merge that later on, I will probably wait for other fixes before uploading though
<cyphermox> rodrigo_, seb128, not necessarily looking at crashers per se, but I'll look at the evo/eds bugs in general to make sure we're not dropping the ball
<cyphermox> seb128, sure
<seb128> cyphermox, thanks
<seb128> if you stop couchdb or contact synced issue ping rodrigo_ about those
<cyphermox> I'd like to include the fix for google if possible, but i think it will be in eds, not evo
<rodrigo_> cyphermox, ok, leave this list -> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/evolution-data-server?field.searchtext=e-addressbook-factory&orderby=-datecreated to me if you want
<rodrigo_> seb128, along with the evo-couchdb branch I pasted before, can you also merge this https://code.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/natty/couchdb-glib/enable-debug-messages/+merge/56597 ? (already uploaded also)
<cyphermox> rodrigo_, ok. well, looks like there may be a few overlaps there -- let me know if down the road you see that we could split them up between us to fix it all ;)
<rodrigo_> cyphermox, ah, you're looking at those bugs also?
<rodrigo_> cyphermox, since seb128 said those were only the addressbook crashes, I assumed there are lots of other e-d-s bugs
<seb128> rodrigo_, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/evolution-data-server?field.searchtext=crashed&orderby=-datecreated
<seb128> rodrigo_, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/evolution-data-server?field.searchtext=SIG&orderby=-datecreated
<cyphermox> rodrigo_, ok. I was going to look at them, but I'll leave them to you and look at the other e-d-s crashers
<seb128> rodrigo_, try that url
<seb128> hum
<rodrigo_> seb128, why do you make this to me??? :)
<rodrigo_> lots of crashes man!
<rodrigo_> cyphermox, yes, unless you want some explicti addressbook ones, leave those to me
<rodrigo_> there are plenty for both of us :)
<cyphermox> ok
<cyphermox> yes, there are ;)
<rodrigo_> cyphermox, do you want me to leave the google related ones to you?
<cyphermox> ah, up to you
<seb128> lot of noise and duplicates likely
<rodrigo_> yes
<cyphermox> I was going to ask whether you wanted to look at the issue with google addressbook at the same time
<seb128> well don't bother cleaning old ones
<seb128> but seems that most of recents crashes are e-addressbook-factory ones
<rodrigo_> cyphermox, ok, let's use the last list
<rodrigo_> cyphermox, ok, let's use the last 2 lists seb128 posted for both of us
<rodrigo_> cyphermox, just assign to you the bugs you're working on and I'll do the same
<seb128> those didn't work ;-)
<seb128> but just type SIGSEGV in the search entry and sort by newest
<rodrigo_> seb128, hmm, it works for me, 182 bugs
<seb128> ok great ;-)
<seb128> well don't try clean the buglists, just try to spot things worth fixing for natty
<rodrigo_> ok
<seb128> we have pedro to clean ;-)
<seb128> hey pedro_! ;-)
<rodrigo_> heh
<seb128> I should start running before pedro throw something in my direction ;-)
<rodrigo_> hehe
<rodrigo_> ugh, we have a lot of patches in the evo package
<rodrigo_> what do you think about doing some patch upstreaming/cleaning days when natty is released?
<rodrigo_> it makes upgrading packages a lot harder
<cyphermox> rodrigo_, yes, but I think there may be quite a few which are backports
<rodrigo_> yes
<rodrigo_> those are ok, as they are removed when we move to the next major version, right?
<cyphermox> afaik they should be well identified as such in changelog and even the file name, so when we're at uploading 2.91. whatever or 3.2 we can drop them
<cyphermox> yeah
<rodrigo_> yeah, right
<rodrigo_> I remember in opensuse we had packages with more than 20 patches, so we upstreamed/cleaned a lot of them, and upgrades were much easier
<rodrigo_> evolution had, iirc, over 100 patches!
<Sweetshark> rodrigo_: well, LO still has >500 "shared patches" used by all distros. The 18 patches are just our private debian/ubuntu patches on top of that (some patching the patches).
<seb128> dobey, bug #724882 is getting some duplicates recently
<seb128> rodrigo_, evo doesn't have a lot of distro patches
<rodrigo_> Sweetshark, ugh
<seb128> does anybody has interest in geoclue?
<seb128> bug #738584
<seb128> hum no bot
<seb128> that's an assert crash which seens to happen on resume
<seb128> it's likely not a real user situation issue if it respawn when needed though
<seb128> kenvandine, cyphermox: ^
<seb128> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/geoclue/+bug/738584
<seb128> if one of you want to have a go to it that would be nice
<ry> ok, i'm using the small apple aluminum bluetooth keyboard, and it's lacking an insert key, i'm wondering how i can make a shortcut to issue "insert" as if i was hitting the key-- like ctrl+shift+i (random example)
<ry> ubuntu 10.10/2.6.35.x/gnome/pc
<seb128> try #ubuntu for user questions
<ry> ok, thanks
<cyphermox> seb128, sure, I'll take that too
<seb128> cyphermox, thanks
<cyphermox> isn't it indicator-datetime which uses geoclue?
<bcurtiswx> cyphermox, eventually empathy will (i would assume)
<cyphermox> bcurtiswx, cool
<cyphermox> I know redshift does not, but not in the natty package ;)
<cyphermox> not, = now,
<seb128> right the indicator use it
<seb128> mvo, #741370
<seb128> mvo, it's an aptdaemon bug with quite some duplicates
<mvo> ok
<seb128> tremolux, bug #728713
<seb128> can you check on it? it's a s-c crash with some duplicates
<tremolux> seb128: yep, we've been watching that one, I will check on it
<tremolux> seb128: thx
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> tremolux, can you make sure it's assigned to somebody?
<tremolux> seb128: yep
<dobey> seb128: ok, i'll look at it
<seb128> thanks
<nessita> pitti: hey there, would you have some minutes? I have a question regarding feature freeze
<pitti> nessita: about to run out, but shoot
<seb128> nessita, others can reply
<seb128> just ask
<nessita> so, we're having an internal discussion about what is an API change and what isn't. We need to add a new parameter to an internal method in syncdaemon, we're saying is not an API change but others disagree
<nessita> so, from our point of view, syncdaemon API is the dbus api only
<nessita> but the whole implementation is somehow available in /usr/lib
<seb128> nessita, well it's an internal api chance, not an external one then?
<nessita> seb128: right
<seb128> is whatever provide the api public?
<seb128> you say it's in /usr/lib
<pitti> nessita: I think the question here is: can it break anything that both consumers in Ubuntu as well as third-party developers are using?
<nessita> seb128: syncdaemon implementation is in ubuntuone/syncdaemon module as a python module, but end users are not supposed to use that
<pitti> nessita: i. e. can they call the function you are about to change?
<nessita> pitti: they can call it, in the sense that is publicly accessible code
<nessita> pitti: but anyone is supposed to use those things outside syncdaemon
<seb128> do you know of anybody using it?
<nessita> no, I don't
<seb128> nessita, "anyone" -> "no one"?
<pitti> nessita: i. e. the official API is the d-bus one, and that's also what our ubuntu packages use?
<nessita> seb128: yes :-)
<nessita> pitti: yes
<pitti> nessita: sounds fine to me then
<nessita> great, thanks
<pitti> Python code is by nature very "open", but that doesn't mean that everything is public API automatically
<pitti> anyway, Taekwondo o'clock, see you tomorrow!
<seb128> seems like it's a private api not supposed to be used and those who (abu)sed it will get what happens in such cases ;-)
<seb128> pitti, see you
<dobey> i prefer my solution to that problem; just avoid python
<nessita> pitti: thanks!!!
 * nessita hugs seb128
 * seb128 hugs nessita
<seb128> nessita, you trapped me with your u1 btw, even didrocks made fun of me because I share bug screenshots by publishing them on u1 now!
<seb128> ;-)
<didrocks> nessita: you finally won \o/
<nessita> YEAH
 * nessita happily dances
<cyphermox> seb128, I haven't been able to reproduce the geoclue crash, but I guess I have a fix that makes some sense anyway.
<cyphermox> i'll do some more testing and checking first though -- but now, lunch time :)
<seb128> cyphermox, ok thanks
<cyphermox> did you personally experience it?
<bcurtiswx> seb128, any trivial empathy bugs you've run across?
<seb128> bcurtiswx, no
<bcurtiswx> seb128, OK thanks :)
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, everytime i bring up the gwibber window it eats CPU, but when its minimized, it doesn't....
<bcurtiswx> seen this?
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, does it keep eating CPU while it is up?
<bcurtiswx> only when the window is unminimized
<bcurtiswx> it takes a little bit too, but it does eventually
<bcurtiswx> yup, now at 100% CPU
<bcurtiswx> maybe since i have a refresh rate in the quick end... seems to me
<kenvandine> weird
<kenvandine> you mean the gwibber client window right? not the lens?
<bcurtiswx> i dont' use the lens
<kenvandine> ok
<kenvandine> i can't see why the client would use CPU
<kenvandine> it doesn't do anything, except when it gets the signal to refresh the WebView
<bcurtiswx> hmm, i have a lot of services it checks with facebook having a TON of friends.. i wonder if its shear quantity causing it..
<bcurtiswx> which is my own fault TBH
<bcurtiswx> i need less friends... <hangs head in shame>
<bcurtiswx> yup thats it, gwibber-service on a refresh
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, ^^
<kenvandine> oh, it isn't the client then
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, fix for bug 739923 being uploaded now :)
<bcurtiswx> yes, sorry for the lack of -service :X
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, how big is your db?
<kenvandine> ls -lah ~/.config/gwibber/gwibber.sqlite
<bcurtiswx> 175m
<bcurtiswx> 175M*
<kenvandine> ugh
<kenvandine> that is why :)
<kenvandine> what version of gwibber?
<bcurtiswx> 3.0.0-0ubuntu1
<kenvandine> that number should be much lower
<kenvandine> wow
<kenvandine> how many accounts do you have?
<bcurtiswx> Twitter, Facebook, Identi.ca
<kenvandine> hummm
<kenvandine> it should keep the latest 2000 posts for each account
<kenvandine> and purge the rest
<kenvandine> so it shouldn't be nearly that big
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, can you post your log somewhere?
<bcurtiswx> sure, which log?
<kenvandine> ~/.cache/gwibber/gwibber.log
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, sent in IM
<kenvandine> got it
<kenvandine> thx
<kenvandine> dude... what is your interval set to?
 * kenvandine should really cap the interval at like 5 or 10m
<kenvandine> i've added protect in so it doesn't overlap anymore, but you still have basically a constant state of refreshing
<kenvandine> s/protect/protection
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, ^^
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, 1 O:-)
<kenvandine> please bump that up
<kenvandine> :)
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, OK
<kenvandine> pitti, do you think i would need a FFE to prevent people from setting their refresh interval so low?
<kenvandine> in gwibber that is
<kenvandine> 1) change the selector in preferences so it bottoms out at 5m and migrate existing settings of less than 5m to 5m
<kenvandine> this intervals i think cause a fair number of problems
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, can i play devils advocate for a minute?
<kenvandine> sure
<bcurtiswx> there's a lot of us that like quick refresh rates, (like the auto-updating twitter).. is saving 2000 really needed?
<kenvandine> yeah... you'd be surprised how few that is
<kenvandine> regardless though... it isn't about how much is being saved
<kenvandine> your are beating on it constantly
<kenvandine> multiple parallel threads download data, doing stuff with it and insert/updating the db
<kenvandine> and as soon as it is done, it does it again
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, what causes the high CPU? it has to read the 2000 and do something with it?
<kenvandine> multiple parallel threads... blah blah
<kenvandine> no
<kenvandine> it is the refreshing
<kenvandine> and actually a db that big doesn't cause a problem for the service
<kenvandine> not CPU wise
<bcurtiswx> well, if i delve any deeper into the cause we'll get into stuff that can be mentioned at UDS (so i won't go any further). :)
<kenvandine> it was causing slowness for the client though
<kenvandine> i think regardless of any future improvements, preventing intervals < 5m would alleviate a fair bit of pain
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, i have ideas how we can get the twitter realtime feed pretty easily for 3.2
<kenvandine> we'll talk about that at UDS
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, i can't wait to be involved then :)
<bcurtiswx> i agree, no need to argue <5 mins should be discouraged for natty :)
 * kenvandine prepares a branch with the interval tweak
<rickspencer3> bug #739923
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, the bot isn't very happy now
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, the pango_overlay thing in GwibberPosterVBox :)
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, after i get out of this meeting, i'll post an example
<nperry> Are you aware of   gnome-icon-theme-symbolic: Depends: gnome-icon-theme (< 2.92) but 3.0.0-0ubuntu1~build1 is installed.
<nperry> IN the gnome3 stack?
<nessita> hi there, any ideas why a launchpad build is failing with:
<nessita> dpkg-deb: error: control directory has bad permissions 700 (must be >=0755 and <=0775)
<nessita> ?
<dobey> nessita: ask on #launchpad instead
<nessita> ok
<cyphermox> nessita, there is something about umask being discussed on #ubuntu-devel, seems like it might be relevant
<chrisccoulson_> tedg, did mterry's changes to dbusmenu to provide a menu closed signal ever land?
<chrisccoulson_> i couldn't find it here, unless i just need to update my machine ;)
<tedg> chrisccoulson_, Honestly, I'm loosing track.  I think so :-)
<nessita> cyphermox: thanks!
<tedg> chrisccoulson_, This week the parser side should land, but I dont' think you'll need that.
<chrisccoulson_> tedg - yeah, i don't use the parser
 * nessita -> eods
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-04-07
<chrisccoulson_> it's quiet in here tonight!
<chrisccoulson_> where is everyone?
<desrt> AHHHHHHHHHHH!!!
<chrisccoulson_> hi!
<bcurtiswx> trying to sort out flights to BUD :-\
<chrisccoulson_> i'm not the only person awake then ;)
<desrt> flying to budapest seems to be not-cheap
<chrisccoulson_> bcurtiswx, oh, you're coming to uDS?
<kenvandine> hey guys
<bcurtiswx> chrisccoulson_, yes :)
<chrisccoulson_> bcurtiswx, have you been before?
<chrisccoulson_> hi kenvandine!
<bcurtiswx> chrisccoulson_, nope
<chrisccoulson_> it looks like i woke everyone up ;)
<chrisccoulson_> or, perhaps it was desrt "AHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!" which woke everyone up ;)
<TheMuso> 8Or, the Aussies are just working away industriously. :)
<kenvandine> chrisccoulson_, it isn't late for some of us :)
<chrisccoulson_> heh :)
<chrisccoulson_> kenvandine, it's not late for me either ;)
<kenvandine> for some definition of late
<kenvandine> :)
<TheMuso> Well it is late morning here in Australia, east coast.
<TheMuso> :)
<kenvandine> hehe
<chrisccoulson_> it's early morning here in the UK ;)
<chrisccoulson_> but i didn't finish working long enough ago to fall asleep just yet
<chrisccoulson_> so, it's beer'o'clock now
<bcurtiswx> chrisccoulson_, its 9:30PM here in the east coast US
<chrisccoulson_> bcurtiswx, it's 2.30am here ;)
 * kenvandine will be up until 2:30am tonight.. i am sure
<chrisccoulson_> heh :)
 * kenvandine starts hacking dee into gwibber tonight
<chrisccoulson_> my head hurts from looking at assembler and trying to figure out how the linker works for most of the day
<bcurtiswx> considering my finacee wakes up at 5:00AM some days... i'd hope to never be up then
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, my kids get me up by 6 or 6:30 am everyday!
<kenvandine> and i never go to bed before 1am
<kenvandine> chrisccoulson_, i really do love firefox4... i have never really liked any browser before
<bcurtiswx> don't they go to school yet?
<kenvandine> but i have to say, firefox is sweet now
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, 2 of them do
<chrisccoulson_> nice :)
<kenvandine> but they started spring break today
<kenvandine> doesn't matter
<kenvandine> they are up early...no matter what
<bcurtiswx> oooh, fun fun, fun fun.. fri--eeee-day
<kenvandine> :)
<kenvandine> i wish they would sleep in... i would love to sleep until 8 :)
<bcurtiswx> nothing a few crumbs of ambien in their midnight snack won't help ;)
<bcurtiswx> so should I switch off of chromium?
 * kenvandine doesn't like chromium
<kenvandine> and ff4 is definately faster
<chrisccoulson_> ff4 is so last week. i'm on 4.2 now!
<chrisccoulson_> ;)
<kenvandine> chrisccoulson_, crack head!
<chrisccoulson_> lol
<chrisccoulson_> kenvandine, have you tried mozilla f1 yet?
<kenvandine> f1?
<kenvandine> remember... i hate web browsers
<chrisccoulson_> kenvandine, http://f1.mozillamessaging.com/
<kenvandine> chrisccoulson_, 2 cycles ago i wrote a firefox extension for gwibber
<kenvandine> to share a link
<chrisccoulson_> nice!
 * kenvandine should resurrect that
<chrisccoulson_> yeah, that would be cool
<kenvandine> it added a gwibber logo next to the address bar
<kenvandine> i suppose i could add it inside the awesome bar now?
<chrisccoulson_> yeah, that would be possible
<kenvandine> in my infinite spare time, i'll take a look again
<TheMuso> lol
<RAOF> chrisccoulson_: I've recently played the âstare at instruction streams and try to work out what's happeningâ game.  If you'd like someone to complain at/sympathise/talk at, feel free to ping me :)
<micahg> is there a reason mutter didn't get updated in the distro past 2.91.90?
<micahg> ah, in universe, nm
<jbicha> could someone look at the mail I sent to the gnome3-team mailing list and is probably stuck in the moderation queue?
<jbicha> oh I guess I need to talk to the team administrator
<didrocks> good morning
<seb128> hey desktop-ers
<Sweetshark> seb128: Morning!
<pitti> Good morning
<seb128> hey pitti
<seb128> hey Sweetshark
<pitti> kenvandine: refresh interval> I think that's below the FFE treshold
<pitti> i. e. just do it
<pitti> Sweetshark: moin moin!
<seb128> nice to get a good night, I'm feeling better today ;-)
<pitti> seb128: oh, you were sick?
<seb128> no, I just did a 3am hacking night on tuesday and I feeled tired yesterday
<seb128> I played with GNOME3 yesterday
<seb128> some things there are nice, and it's nice looking out of the padding and spacing which is a bit over what it should be
<seb128> but I really miss a launcher easily accessible, having to switch to the activity view doesn't work well for me, I also miss a background and an easy way to access my files, downloads, etc
<pitti> seb128: sounds very similar to my experience yesterday  indeed
<seb128> I'm not impressed by the new control center though
<seb128> like you get on specific configuration pages from different ui parts like indicator
<seb128> with the first button in the dialog being a "go back to other settings"
<pitti> yes, I've seen it
<seb128> which when you click send you on the control-center grid where you didn't come from without an obvious way to get back where you were
<seb128> the background capplet is weird as well
<seb128> the pictures are like 10x10 pixels images on a sidebar
<seb128> but otherwise performances seemed fine and I like the look
<seb128> well it's a nice start, I'm waiting for 3.2 ;-)
<desrt> seb128: too black for my tastes :)
<seb128> hey desrt
<desrt> hey
<desrt> interesting point you make about the control centre btw... i hadn't considered that
<seb128> I think getting ride of the desktop before giving an easy access to your files is a mistake though
<desrt> ya.....
<desrt> gnome-tweak-tool lets you turn that back on
<seb128> I can see lot of users getting angry over that
<desrt> seb128: or the minimise button :)
<seb128> I didn't miss that one ;-)
<seb128> I also noticed that I got used to the unity launcher, I really missed not having one with shell yesterday
<seb128> if you are in lazy mode with an hand on the mouse it's less convenient to switch between applications
<seb128> if you use the keyboard that's less an issue though
<desrt> i find it's even more annoying with the trackpoint... harder to slam that up into the top/left
<desrt> but even still, not too annoying
<seb128> oh
<seb128> is there a way to add clock locations?
<seb128> I didn't find how to do it
<desrt> i think it's missing functionality
<seb128> I like to know what time it is for my co workers when I ping them ;-)
<seb128> ok
<desrt> i imagine the shell team has a whole laundry list of features that didn't make it in time
<desrt> which is pretty understandable
<seb128> it is
<seb128> it's a 3.0
<seb128> 3.2 will have those I guess
<desrt> i think we successfully dodged 'kde 4.0' :)
<seb128> ;-)
<desrt> but it's still very much .0 indeed
<seb128> I find the notifications nice as well
<ricotz> seb128, hi
<desrt> time for bed, i think
<desrt> nite
<ricotz> seb128, did you tested the ppa?
<ricotz> desrt, night
<ricotz> the gnome-shell 3.0.0.1 deb has a weird problem with the filepermissions in /usr/share/gnome-shell which might be ppa related since it doesnt happen with a local build
<seb128> hey ricotz, no I downloaded the gnome3.org iso
<ricotz> more precisely in /usr/share/gnome-shell/themes
<ricotz> ok
<seb128> 'night desrt
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - oh, you're a new gnome-shell convert now are you? ;)
<seb128> lol
<seb128> not quite ;-)
<seb128> though I like the look it's still missing quite some things
<chrisccoulson> yeah, it does look quite nice
<seb128> oh, I also noticed that I got used to have clean dialogs, i.e without menus etc
<chrisccoulson> nice, my laptop died when i docked it
<Laney> do you know if gconf has a way of transitioning users from one key to another? banshee-1 â banshee in this case
<Laney> for users who previously manually set banshee-1 as their default and will now be broken because it renamed
 * pitti stops bombarding u-desktop@ with oneiric topics now
<Laney> a graphical net installer would be nice
<hyperair> net installer as in via pxebooting?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - i responded to the firefox translations topic ;)
<Laney> hyperair: as in a cd-sized environment which downloads the rest at install
<Laney> like debian netinst
<hyperair> aah i see
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128
<seb128> chrisccoulson, could you send one about default email client? ;-)
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, can do ;)
<seb128> thanks
<pitti> chrisccoulson: yay!
<seb128> pitti, you stole my GNOME3 topic!
<chrisccoulson> lol
<chrisccoulson> and my translations topic ;)
 * pitti hugs seb128
 * seb128 hugs pitti
<pitti> seb128: I just dumped everything that we should do from my POV :)
<seb128> pitti, btw I don't think moving to an usb image would starting to not care about being rigourous, it would just give us an updated target revisited to nowadays standards
<seb128> would "mean" starting
<pitti> seb128: yes, I think 1 GB is a sensible upgrade
<seb128> like we can realistically ship qt over our current stack
<pitti> I think available bandwidth certainly grew by the factor 1.4 since 2004
<seb128> it would also mean to get back a bit in a translated world ;-)
<seb128> pitti, right
<pitti> (1.4 being 1 GB / 700 MB)
<seb128> that was my though as well
<broder> yeah, i think 1G is a reasonable number, but i wonder if it would be better to do something like grow it by 100M every release to make sure we keep thinking long-term
<pitti> seb128: we just couldn't ship CDs any more, just DVDs
<pitti> broder: that seems way too fast to me, though
<seb128> well and iso download is not really an argument
<broder> pitti: err, sorry - not that it should grow indefinitely
<seb128> knowing that after a few weeks you get half the iso in sru downloads anyway
<pitti> well, I still don't download DVDs, and many other people can't either
<broder> but rather that we shouldn't jump immediately from 700M to 1G
<pitti> broder: ah, right
<seb128> if we care about downloads we should get delta debs
<broder> since i suspect that we will come up with ways to fill 1G rather quickly, and then be in the same position again
<pitti> broder: I like that
<broder> pitti: i'll reply on list so it's recorded
<seb128> I would just jump but fill it with langpacks
<seb128> then we can argue on tradding langpacks with things worth it
<seb128> when needed
<broder> seb128: doesn't that put us in a position of planning regressions down the road for people using those langpacks?
<seb128> ?
<pitti> broder: only regressions in terms of what you need to download during install
<seb128> we always tweaked the langpacks we ship
<seb128> like german and french are on the edge each cycle
<broder> i suppose as an english-speaking american pig i'm never exposed to that :-P
<pitti> seb128: we should really start having French or German as "C" strings in applications :)
<seb128> ;-)
<didrocks> +1
<didrocks> (seems that I switch to ubuntu-desktop IRC channel when it's needed :p)
<seb128> pitti, though sense (I think it was him) had a nice blog post on the topic this week saying that's it's a disadvantage for english
<seb128> since the strings are written by hackers and don't get any review, etc as other locales
<pitti> that's right
<pitti> and more importantly, in a lot of cases by non-native English speaking hackers :)
<seb128> btw do you guys have an opinion on whether "classic GNOME" should be similar to 10.10 or to what we have now
<seb128> or said different if we should have the logo menu and appmenu or if we should go back to the 3 menus without appmenu on the default layout
<broder> you mean panel vs. unity-2d?
<seb128> no, gnome-panel "classic" session default layout
<broder> oh, hmm...i haven't checked out the current classic environment in a while :)
<seb128> we switched to use the logo menu rather than the application, places, system one and we added appmenu to be closer from unity since that was the 2d fallback session as well
<didrocks> people on the french forum seems surprised when they go to the classic environment to not find the traditional menu
<seb128> but since we have unity-2d for those who want a 2d session similar to unity
<seb128> didrocks, right, I think users wait from the classic session to be ...classic ;-)
<didrocks> agreed with that, I unerstand the 2 rationales though :-)
<didrocks> understand*
<broder> with unity-2d, we should never have to show a user the classic environment unless they explicitly opt into it, right?
<seb128> if unity-2d was on the CD yes
<seb128> but that's not the case (yet)
<broder> i'd say that if we get unity-2d on the cd somehow, then someone who specifically asks for classic should get the old-school layout
<seb128> but we don't for this cycle
<broder> oh, you're talking about for 12.04? yeah, i don't know for that one
<pitti> seb128: with GNOME 3 is there actually still a well-defined "gnome 2d" experience?
<seb128> pitti, still gnome-panel
<seb128> though they tweaked it a bit to be closer from the gnome-shell layout
<pitti> seb128: my gut feeling is that gnome-2d session should continue to be what we have now, to avoid jumping back and forth and also to provide a slightly more consistent user experience
<seb128> pitti, so with appmenu?
<pitti> yes
<pitti> but I have no strong opinion about it TBH
<pitti> but for upgraders we'll reuse the existing config anyway
<pitti> it took me a fair while to actually see the "new" layout in natty, with a new user
<seb128> it depends of how we communicate about "classic" though
<seb128> we don't communicate it as being a 2d session
<seb128> we called it "classic"
<ogra_> pitti, do i want overlay scrollbar on netbook ? (just saw your meta upload)
<seb128> like users say that's what you should use if you like the old GNOME better than unity or g-s
<pitti> ogra_: question for DX, but I guess so
<pitti> seb128: ah, good point
<Laney> so classic = gnome 2.32 (~ 10.10)?
<rodrigo_> morning
<kklimonda> hey rodrigo_
<seb128> hey rodrigo_
<rodrigo_> hi kklimonda
<rodrigo_> hi seb128
<seb128> Laney, yes with appmenu configured by default
<seb128> rodrigo_, how are you?
<rodrigo_> seb128, very tired, didn't sleep much last night, as my gf had a small accident with the bike yesterday and she had a bad night
<seb128> rodrigo_, oh? is she ok? did she get injured?
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, just some bruises, nothing serious, but enough to feel some pain when sleeping
<seb128> ok
<Sweetshark> pitti: didrocks asked about https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/720716 still being fixed. After some failed attempts (it fun to have multiple sets of .desktop files in multiple repositories, some unused) I think I have a solution. How would that be handled wrt to FF and translations?
<didrocks> Sweetshark: chrisccoulson made it for firefox on a wiki page as translation isn't handled by launchpad
<didrocks> hence the fact I pointed that yesterday, you should talk about it with dpm as well :)
<chrisccoulson> yes, we have https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/Wanted/FirefoxDesktop for firefox
<pitti> Sweetshark: right, it's an UIF issue, and by and large missing translations; I think we should at least collect translations for the more popular languages (Spanish, Portugese, Chinese, and of course French!) before we upload this, as this doesn't have any langpack support
<pitti> Sweetshark: please subscribe u-release and ubuntu-translators to the bug and ask for a UIF, and perhaps point to a wiki page like for firefox
<TeTeT> hi, on Natty I've seen that Lotus Notes uses the global menu, but eclipse doesn't. Can I exclude Notes from the global menu somehow, as it doesn't work that well?
<seb128> TeTeT, unset UBUNTU_MENUPROXY
<seb128> TeTeT, then start it
<ogra_> we probably should have a wrapper that does this on all wxgtk apps ;)
<ogra_> audacity isnt usable under unity
<ogra_> (works fine in classic)
<jibel> ogra_, this is bug 722375
<seb128> ogra_, that's fixed today in natty
<TeTeT> seb128: thanks
<ogra_> oh, awesome, so i can switch my desktop machine back to unity !
<TeTeT> works nicely
 * ogra_ is currently digitizing his LPs ... not having audacity is kind of blocking ;)
<fta> didrocks, hi, just updated that bamf/chromium bug, definitely not fixed
<didrocks> fta: which one? the webapps match?
<fta> bug 744972
<fta> (the one jorge pointed me to yesterday)
<didrocks> yeah, please reopen it and take in touch with the contributor making the patch
<seb128> rodrigo_, can you check on bug #753047
<seb128> ?
<seb128> ogra_, you could just have unset UBUNTU_MENUPROXY to run it under unity...
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes
<seb128> thanks
<dholbach> hiya
<dholbach> does anybody know anything about the patch in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-input-synaptics/+bug/633125?
<dholbach> (it's actually a patch for gnome-settings-daemon)
<dholbach> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/68447735/use_xrecord.patch
<rodrigo_> seb128, hmm, you merged this -> https://code.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/lucid/couchdb-glib/fix-571286/+merge/24754 but it wasn't needed anymore, just for lucid
<seb128> rodrigo_, no, I manually set the merge request to merged on launchpad so it stops showing in the merges queue
<rodrigo_> seb128, ah, ok
<seb128> rodrigo_, I could have deleted it or set to anything else
<seb128> rodrigo_, it was just to stop having it listed ;-)
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, no problem, didn't pull the branch before asking you
<seb128> rodrigo_, but feel free to set the correct status
<rodrigo_> seb128, it was abandoned, so yeah, no problem
<seb128> dholbach, do you have any clue about dholbach's question?
<dholbach> seb128, no
<seb128> ups
<dholbach> that's why I asked ;-)
<seb128> rodrigo_, ^
<seb128> dholbach, it was for rodrigo
<rodrigo_> hmm
 * dholbach hugs seb128 :)
 * seb128 hugs dholbach
 * dholbach hugs rodrigo_ too :)
 * rodrigo_ hugs dholbach back :)
<rodrigo_> dholbach, looking...
<Sweetshark> GROUPHUG!
<rodrigo_> dholbach, I guess it looks ok, shouldn't break anything, so do you want me to submit the package with the patch?
 * dholbach hugs Sweetshark too :-)
<rodrigo_> Sweetshark, :)
<rodrigo_> Sweetshark, jealous, eh? :D
<dholbach> rodrigo_, I personally didn't know too much about the patch - should I forward it to upstream, etc.?
<dholbach> it's just my patch pilot day and I was trying to get another opinion on it
<rodrigo_> dholbach, I'm upstream, so I can forward it myself
<dholbach> :-D
<dholbach> fast-forward!
<dholbach> awesome
<dholbach> I'm happy to test-build, etc, upload to Ubuntu
<rodrigo_> although I see in the bug it needed a change in syndaemon
<dholbach> oh?
<fta> didrocks, the last compiz regressed for me. lots of artifacts in chromium: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fta/chromium-artifacts.ogv
<didrocks> dbarth: ^^
<didrocks> fta: can you open a bug about it?
<seb128> it seems that somehow fta is a bug magnet
<rodrigo_> dholbach, it needs to be compiled with xrecord, for -R to work, I guess?
<seb128> or he has very weird configs ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: yeah ;)
<rodrigo_> dholbach, well, I'll submit a package fix for natty and file the patch to b.g.o
<dholbach> rodrigo_, ok, let me know if there's anything else I can do
<dholbach> and thanks for your work on this
<rodrigo_> dholbach, not sure how syndaemon would react if it gets -R but not compiled with XRecord
<Sweetshark> didrocks, chrisccoulson: Looking good like that? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/Wanted/LibreOfficeCalc  Just asking before I create a copy for base, draw, impress, math, startcenter, writer.
<dholbach> rodrigo_, there's also https://code.launchpad.net/~dylanmccall/ubuntu/natty/gnome-settings-daemon/fix-748805/+merge/56096
<dholbach> but it seems to be still under discussion
<chrisccoulson> yeah, that one needs fixing
<chrisccoulson> the patch doesn't really make things any better, it just changes them slightly
<rodrigo_> ok
<chrisccoulson> Sweetshark, yeah, looks good
<dbarth> ?
<dbarth> ah ok
<dbarth> damage issues again i guess
<Sweetshark> hmmm, I get a tasty internal server error everytime I save something on the ubuntu wiki ...
<fta> seb128, should I add a tag for the regression or something?
<Daviey> rodrigo_, I was just prepping a merge proposal for the one dholbach raised, but if you are on the case i'll leave it.
<Daviey> looks more complicated that patch piloting anyway :)
<rodrigo_> Daviey, yes, almost done
 * dholbach hugs rodrigo_ and Daviey
<dholbach> awesome
<fta> didrocks, dbarth: bug 753369
<fta> no bot?
<rodrigo_> dholbach, :)
<didrocks> fta: I'll let dbarth deal with it, on other things right now
<Daviey> rodrigo_, \o/
<pitti> desrt: is it possible in gsettings to construct new subtrees dynamically? such as a tree with properties for each hotpluggable drive you have (/apps/nautilus/volume_options/MyUsbStick/ has an "automount" gboolean flag, and possibly a list of mount options) etc.
<pitti> desrt: I don't see anything in the gsettings API to do that, it all seems to rely on a predefined schema?
<seb128> fta, no
<seb128> fta, there is no such tag during unstable series
<pitti> desrt: or is the solution for that to just have a /apps/nautilus/volume_options key which is a dictionary gvariant? (mapping UUIDs/Labels to options)
<seb128> is there any take for bug #741425
<seb128> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/policykit-1-gnome/+bug/741425
<seb128> that's polkit aborting on "assertion failed: (info->alignment == 0 || info->alignment == 1 || info->alignment == 3 || info->alignment == 7)""
<pitti> I really doubt that it's on login
<pitti> seems on logout
<pitti> I just can't reproduce it :/
<pitti> I already tried to kill it in various ways
<pitti> if anyone has a recipe, I'm happy to workon it
<seb128> pitti, right
<seb128> pitti, I'm wondering if there is a way we could detect and ignore crash on logout
<pitti> seb128: can we ask gnome-session somehow? i. e. does it have a shutdown phase or so?
<pitti> (not that it would be easy to get to that from a kernel context, but that's details)
<vuntz> pitti: there's a shutdown phase, yes
<pitti> we can probably steal the dbus address from the crashed process' environment and query the session dbus
<vuntz> pitti: there's actually more than one phase for that. But everything after RUNNING means "we're leaving guys"
<pitti> there's a SessionOver() signal, but that's not of much use in apport
<pitti> is there a property we can query on org.gnome.SessionManager?
<Sweetshark> didrocks: any opinion on this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/720716/comments/2 ? esp. on the startcenter?
<didrocks> Sweetshark: the .desktop file looks good
<didrocks> Sweetshark: just stick with what design asks for Natty I would say
<didrocks> Startcenter shouldn't be in the launcher once bamf is fixed
<rodrigo_> can someone please review/merge/upload this -> https://code.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/natty/gnome-settings-daemon/fix-633125/+merge/56726 ?
<rodrigo_> dholbach, Daviey: ^^
<dholbach> looking
<dholbach> rodrigo_, so there were no additional changes required?
<rodrigo_> dholbach, yes, the syndaemon compilation with XRecord enabled, which is already in natty, as the bug comments say
<dholbach> ah great
<dholbach> rodrigo_, so we'll carry it as a distro patch as it's too hard for g-s-d to find out if XRecord is enabled in syndaemon?
<rodrigo_> dholbach, that's why I'm not pushing the fix to git.gnome yet, as I need to confirm the -R is harmless if syndaemon is not compiled with XRecord
 * dholbach nods
<Sweetshark> pitti: "ubuntu-translators" finds 17 pages of hits in launchpad, is there something more specific (a complete email address maybe?)
<dholbach> Sweetshark, you mean the mailing list of the ubuntu translators?
<Sweetshark> 11:37 < pitti> Sweetshark: please subscribe u-release and ubuntu-translators to the bug and ask for a UIF, and  perhaps point to a wiki page like for firefox
<dholbach> ah, in that case, just subscribe the teams on the bug report (+ subscribe someone else) and put "ubuntu-translators" and "ubuntu-release" in there
<Sweetshark> "Ubuntu Translations Coordinators" sounds good ...
<pitti> Sweetshark: ah, it's actually a ML: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
<dholbach> dpm can probably help too
<pitti> Sweetshark: but yes, https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-translations-coordinators sounds good
<dholbach> ah he's not around today
<Daviey> rodrigo_, the only thing i'd say is the author doesn't have an email address... and as a personal preference you can use the short version of the lp bug url.
<Daviey> minor really.
<rodrigo_> Daviey, couldn't find an email address in the author's lp page
<Daviey> rodrigo_,  snizovtsev@gmail.com
<dholbach> pro tip: click on the gpg key link
<rodrigo_> and yes, changing it to the short version
<dholbach> :)
<rodrigo_> ah
<Daviey> (https://launchpad.net/bugs/633125)
<rodrigo_> ok, fixed and pushed
<dholbach> Daviey, do you want to upload it?
<dholbach> I can do it too - as you like it
<rodrigo_> dholbach, Daviey: if you upload it, please also merge the branch with lp:~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-settings-daemon/ubuntu
<dholbach> yes
<dholbach> Daviey, I'll take care of it
<dbarth> #753369 ?
<Daviey> dholbach, super
 * dholbach ^5s everyone
<Daviey> Hi, would someone from the desktop team decide if this is worth carrying?  patch on bug 501426 ..  thanks :)
<Daviey> is ubotu dead? :(
<davmor2> guys out of curiosity why was w3c removed from the install?  you now can't report a bug if x doesn't start.
<tjaalton> davmor2: ubuntu-bug doesn't work?
<tjaalton> or does it need a browser
<davmor2> tjaalton: Ubuntu bug uses the default browser for the environment it is in to send the report
<tjaalton> ok..
<soren> davmor2: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-server/2008-June/001698.html
<davmor2> soren: ah mdz's to blame then :D thanks  I thought it was possibly just to save space on the cd
<soren> davmor2: It probably was.
<chrisccoulson> wow, my head feels like it's going to explode now
<seb128> chrisccoulson, extensive debugging seance?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, for bug 663294
<seb128> did you crack it?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - well, i think it's a linker bug, and i've got a very small test case now which demonstrates the issue
<seb128> ok, so it's a doko issue ;-)
<seb128> we need to get a bug bot back btw
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i was just wondering where it had gone
<soren> It's still in #ubuntu-ops?
<soren> So it's alive.
<seb128> I've asked on #ubuntu-devel
<chrisccoulson> it's probably doing what i should be doing right now - going out to grab a burger ;)
<seb128> lol
<chrisccoulson> :)
<seb128> he's having a burger for 2 days
<rodrigo_> yeah, lunch for me also, bbl
<seb128> that's a cow
<chrisccoulson> lol
<seb128> not a burger
<seb128> chrisccoulson, rodrigo_: enjoy guys
<chrisccoulson> welcome ubot5 \o/
<seb128> rodrigo_, vish: could you stop Cc-ing submitters when replying on a list?
<seb128> grrr at people who spam my inbox rather than reply to the list
<vish> ;p
<vish> sure :)
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> how come you guys don't just reply to the list?
<vish> not sure, i think i hit reply all , instead of reply?
<vish> i blame evolution and the desktop team that chose it ! ;p
<chrisccoulson> heh. evolution defaults to "reply to all" when you do that
<seb128> there is a reply to list
<chrisccoulson> rather than "reply to list"
<seb128> well at list it has a reply to list
<seb128> which some mailer don't
<chrisccoulson> i've fallen in to that trap before ;)
<seb128> I'm used to ctrl-l to reply to list
<vish> seb128: yea, and there is Launchpad lists which do not reply to list
<seb128> ?
<om26er> hi! is there anything wrong with the daily ISOs i dont see one?
<om26er> only for powerpc
<seb128> hey om26er
<vish> seb128: for launchpad mailing lists where we have to make sure to use "reply all"
<vish> otherwise it doesnt go to the list..
<Laney> why doesn't evolution set Reply-To if that's what you want?
<om26er> hello seb128
<om26er> seb128, how are you today?
<seb128> Reply-To is a list thing not a mua option
<seb128> om26er, I'm fine thanks
<vish> Laney: i think it might be a launchpad mailing list config issue; (where it doesnt set a reply to addy?)
<Laney> the list can override it if it wants
<seb128> om26er, the daily build failed probably, I'm checking that
<seb128> right, that's another discussion
<seb128> but doing "reply to list" should do the right thing
<Laney> but if it doesn't then the client can set it
<seb128> the Reply-To just determine if "reply" goes to the submitter or the list
<seb128> "reply to list" should always work
<Laney> it's a user thing
<Laney> you can make 'reply' send replies where you want them to go
<seb128> Laney, the issue is that some users decide it's fine to Cc the submitter on list replies
<seb128> which is not
<seb128> om26er, http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/cd-build-logs/ubuntu/natty/daily-live-20110407.log
<seb128> om26er, seems a casper issue, check on #ubuntu-devel maybe, it's not really desktopish
<vish> Laney: i think it has something to do with mailiman setting, all mailman mailing lists have the "reply-to" set to the mailing addy, so if we hit "reply" it just goes to mailing list.  but launchpad ML dont, so if we just use "reply" it wont go to list
<seb128> om26er, oh, seems likely cjwatson already fixed it seeing today updates
<vish> and while switching between these two mailing lists we(i?) forget :p
 * om26er have a broken natty system and don't have any natty ISO :(
<seb128> vish, nothing to do with launchpad and it's a frequent discussion subject
<seb128> om26er, take yesterday's one?
<om26er> seb128, broken too it seems
<seb128> vish, those are ubuntu lists not launchpad ones
<seb128> om26er, how is your system broken?
<om26er> updated the kernel now i see busybox
<seb128> vish, it's a policy decision, that has been argued over several times and some people are on each side, some consider reply should go the submitter and others to the list
<seb128> om26er, can't you pick the previous one in the grub lists?
<om26er> seb128, seems older kernel have the same problem, so should be some other thing causing
<vish> seb128: yay! then its not my fault for being confused.. ;p someone needs to decide on a common behavior ;)
<om26er> have happened the third time over the past month
<seb128> vish, you just need to use reply to list on lists
<seb128> om26er, try asking on #ubuntu-devel about your issue maybe
<seb128> seems like a bug that should be fixed
<vish> but but.. hitting a button is so easy :s
<vish> ;)
 * vish files wishlist for reply-to-list button..
<om26er> seb128, I will, thanks :)
<seb128> om26er, you're welcome
<chrisccoulson> pitti, i'm going to take http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xdg/xdg-utils/commit/?id=6f49c05ceb2a1935d07c49c2e100b5cf3cdf5f26 so we can get the default browser check working in chromium again
<chrisccoulson> ...but....
<chrisccoulson> that won't work on it's own, because it does a gnome-3 check based on the existance of gnome-default-application-properties
<chrisccoulson> i'm just wondering if it's acceptable to just hard-code that on natty, or use something else (like lsb-release)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, see bug #670128
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 670128 in xdg-utils (Ubuntu) "gnome-open uses firefox while it's not the preferred browser" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/670128
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, that's the bug i want to fix :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I had a go to it and went lazy since the diff isn't near to apply with tweaks
<seb128> like it patches .in which are not in our version and has conflicts
<seb128> but you can hardcode the gnome3 case
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i'll have a look now
<chrisccoulson> fill my head with something other than assembler!
<chrisccoulson> :)
<seb128> did you fix those libdbusmenu crashers btw? ;-)
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - which ones? have i still got some assigned to me?
 * chrisccoulson goes and checks
<seb128> the about to show ones
<chrisccoulson> oh
<chrisccoulson> not yet ;)
<seb128> ;-)
<chrisccoulson> i'll take a look at those today too
<seb128> do you want new ones if we get somes?
<seb128> thanks
<chrisccoulson> yeah, new ones are fine too
<seb128> excellent
<seb128> but get lunch first
<seb128> you need food to work ;-)
<chrisccoulson> i had an interesting bug with the thunderbird menu at the weekend. someone installed an extension that caused all of the menu icons to be 510x400 images
<chrisccoulson> and sending pixbufs of that size over dbus is pretty painful ;)
<chrisccoulson> it sent so much data that the connection was terminated and gdbus aborted thunderbird ;)
<chrisccoulson> some people install some crazy things
<kklimonda> ugh, so there are limits to how much data can dbus handle! ;)
<chrisccoulson> kklimonda, i guess so. thunderbird was aborting with "g_dbus_connection_real_closed: Remote peer vanished with error: Underlying GIOStream returned 0 bytes on an async read (g-io-error-quark, 0). Exiting."
<chrisccoulson> so i guess that means it sent too much data ;)
<kklimonda> grr, pulseaudio has once again decided to quit
<kklimonda> and now it has done it under g-s so it's not a Unity issue..
<chrisccoulson> it's trying to save resources for you ;)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: (sorry, was at lunch); that commit looks harmless enough to me, and not too hard to port? (If not by letter, then at least in spirit)
<kklimonda> chrisccoulson: that's what I've suspected (well, that pa quits when nothing plays for a while) but it makes no sense, and TheMuso haven't seen the issue..
<pitti> chrisccoulson: great progress on the PIE debugging!
<chrisccoulson> pitti - heh, that one's pretty painful :)
<chrisccoulson> i could do with some help from someone on foundations really
<chrisccoulson> it should be easier now i have a test case
<pitti> Linaro also has a few gcc experts
<dholbach> pitti, what's the best place for things like this nowadays? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/hal-info/+bug/745094
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 745094 in hal-info (Ubuntu) "Samsung X360 brightness keys block keyboard and produce all-or-nothing effect" [Undecided,New]
<pitti> dholbach: uh, I thought this was fixed ages ago
<pitti> dholbach: but in general, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Hotkeys/Troubleshooting
<pitti> dholbach: i. e. almost always an udev bug, but it needs some particular debugging information
<dholbach> it has a patch attached
<dholbach> but seems the patch is for linux(?)
<pitti> dholbach: I can translate that into an udev rule; I'll have a look
<dholbach> pitti, you rock!
 * dholbach hugs pitti
<pitti> dholbach: actually, it's really already fixed, for about three releases now
<pitti> ah, for this model only since maverick
<pitti> dholbach: bug updated
 * dholbach hugs pitti
<dholbach> thanks a lot
 * pitti hugs back dholbach
 * vish edits /usr/share/evolution/2.30/ui/evolution-mail-reader.ui and replaces  <toolitem action='mail-reply-all'/>  with  <toolitem action='mail-reply-list'/> â¦ booooo! no more being able to annoy seb128  :(
<seb128> lol
<seb128> that will break when you want to reply to a direct email when several people are Cc-ed though
<vish> yea, i dont do many of those, but rather that than annoy people :)
<ogra_> just use ctrl-L ;)
<vish> heh, I've several times done that ctrl+l in xchat and *poof*..
<bcurtiswx> seb128, http://paste.ubuntu.com/590752/
<seb128> bcurtiswx, ? I've nothing to do with that
<seb128> bcurtiswx, why do you ask me?
<seb128> brb
<bcurtiswx> seb128, ok then. sorry :-\
<seb128> it's being mentioned on #ubuntu-devel by jibel
<seb128> if you want to track it
 * bcurtiswx thinks today is a busy day for lots of people
<mpt> cyphermox, hi, got a few minutes to talk about Network Manager 0.9?
<rickspencer3> vuntz, rodrigo_, seb128_, pedro_ check out http://www.ubuntu.com
<rickspencer3> wait for the 2nd banner
<pitti> hah
<seb128_> rickspencer3, nice!
<chrisccoulson> nice!
<pedro_> rickspencer3, neat! :-)
<seb128_> mterry, translated locations for natty then? \o/
<cyphermox> mpt, sure
<mterry> seb128, looks like it!  :)
<seb128> mterry, I've assigned you an indicator-application crash we got today btw
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, time to update my machine for the first time in a week
<chrisccoulson> i wonder if things will carry on working afterwards ;)
<mterry> seb128, sa
<mterry> w
<seb128> great
<mpt> cyphermox, just trying to get a list of what features NM has that ConnMan doesn't, and vice versa
<vuntz> rickspencer3: sweet!
<rickspencer3> congrats vuntz! you da' man
 * vuntz hugs rickspencer3 
<cyphermox> mpt, ok. can I get back to you on that? I'll need to double-check somethings and cross-check all of that against the list kvalo had made on the wiki somewhere
<mpt> cyphermox, sure
 * rickspencer3 hugs vuntz
<pitti> vuntz: tried the live CD yesterday, looks really nice! congratulations!
<vuntz> pitti: thanks!
<seb128> vuntz, well done ;-) I tried the livecd as well
<mpt> cyphermox, I know about WPA Enterprise, VPNs, modems, Wimax
<mpt> and IPv6
<cyphermox> ok
<cyphermox> here's another one then: usb tethering :/
<cyphermox> I was looking at the last release notice, kind of surprised it's not in connman yet TBH
<cyphermox> some num
<cyphermox> mpt: some number of modems are actually supported in connman via ofono, but it's not as many as many as modemmanager, afaict
<mpt> Maybe I was imagining the IPv6 part
<cyphermox> mpt, it probably made it in recently
<mpt> cyphermox, there's a small list here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ConnMan#Status
<mpt> from the ConnMan p.o.v.
<cyphermox> yup
<rodrigo_> rickspencer3, nice (re: www.ubuntu.com)
 * Laney approves of the application in the screenshot :-)
<seb128> mterry, can you check if you can figure anything from bug #745115 while you are doing indicator-application hacking? ;-)
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 745115 in indicator-application (Ubuntu Natty) "indicator-applet-complete crashed with SIGSEGV in g_cclosure_marshal_VOID__POINTER()" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/745115
<seb128> the first frame is missing in the stacktrace but the others are there
 * mterry doesn't NEED first frames
<seb128> mterry, ;-)
<seb128> kklimonda, does gnome-shell even official use or support notification area icons? like things we patch for indicator now are all using gnome-shell custom indicators in GNOME3
<seb128> the keyboard layout, gnome-bt, ...
<kklimonda> seb128: yes, they are displayed in the same place (at the bottom of the screen) where notifications are.
<seb128> kklimonda, right, that's a fallback thing though, none of their official component use it?
<kklimonda> seb128: yes, notification area is being deprecated in gnome3, but it's still being used by other projects. I'd like to make appindicators dependant on Unity/Unity 2D if possible, to make people complain about one less thing when they hear "Ubuntu". :)
<seb128> why would indicators depend of unity?
<seb128> they are displayed fine in KDE and GNOME with the corresponding applet
<kklimonda> seb128: but it can't be queried at the runtime afaik
<rodrigo_> oh, bug bot is back!
<seb128> rodrigo_, right ;-)
<rodrigo_> cool :)
<kklimonda> seb128: we could make them depend on some env variable, it doesn't have to be DESKTOP_SESSION
<seb128> kklimonda, why would they need to?
<seb128> kklimonda, I'm not sure to understand the issue you are trying to solve
<kklimonda> seb128: the fallback for appindicators doesn't really bring the original menu back, it just shows the same menu that indicator shows, but using GtkStatusIcon
<seb128> right
<seb128> but that's just the default thing
<seb128> you can overwrite it with a custom handle if you want
<seb128> that's an upstream decision
<seb128> if upstream use libappindicator it's up to them to figure if they want a simple fallback or overwrite it in a custom way
<seb128> there is nothing really unity or Ubuntu specific there
<kklimonda> seb128: are there examples of applications that use the custom handle to reimplement the old menu?
<seb128> not that I know about
<seb128> we mostly spent efforts on the primary use for things we did
<seb128> not on making fallback behave differently
<seb128> still it doesn't tell what issue you are trying to solve as an application developper
<seb128> you are attached to the old systray and want to keep it as a first class citizen even if modern desktop move away from it?
<seb128> like KDE, gnome-shell or unity don't use it in their design or their components
<kklimonda> seb128: I'm not really attached to it, but I'm attached to Ubuntu, and getting complains from users that tray behaves differently on Ubuntu made me wonder if we can fix it.
<cyphermox> mpt, seems like there's another page that was largely kept up to date: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ConnectionManagerComparison
<mpt> cyphermox, brilliant, thanks
<seb128> kklimonda, users don't like change, that's probably an issue which will go away as gnome-shell moved away from it for the most part as well
<cyphermox> I'll merge my data into it later, but it's very much the same
<kklimonda> seb128: it's more about Ubuntu as a whole, I'm just concerned about how the choices we make affect the community. Lately all I've been hearing from users is how Ubuntu changes everything, how bad it is for our uses, and how will everyone start recommending Mint.
<rodrigo_> kklimonda, Mint?
<seb128> kklimonda, those are small minority which tends to make noise
<seb128> rodrigo_, it's an ubuntu derivative
<Tommeh> Or a Debian derivative.
<Tommeh> (They do a rolling release based on Debian)
<rodrigo_> ah, didn't know about it
<Tommeh> In addition to the regular Ubuntu builds. :)
<Tommeh> I found the idea quite interesting.
<rodrigo_> so, I see they have a xfce builkd, a kde one, etc
<Tommeh> Indeed
<Tommeh> Personally I thought a lot of the actual difference was in bundling 'non-free' software by default to provide the best out-of-the-box experience.
<rodrigo_> ah, I see
<kklimonda> seb128: they may be a minority, I don't argue with that. But they are also our most experienced users, and if we start losing them, Ubuntu as OS will suffer. I'm already seeing sings of it in our LoCo where people are just starting to copy&paste voodoo commands to each other, without understanding them.
<mpt> kklimonda, are there any particular applications these users mention?
<mpt> I'm reviewing indicators in general right now.
<seb128> kklimonda, well I say that's not worth doing efforts, but those are resistant to changes but them wanting or not desktops are changing and GNOME3 will be as much change as unity is
<rodrigo_> to be honest, if instead of so many distros, desktops, etc, etc, we all worked together, free software would have today a 90% market share :)
<rodrigo_> but yes, "linux is about choice"
<mpt> rodrigo_, you could say the same about proprietary software.
<rodrigo_> mpt, yes, but those are rival companies
<mpt> Ditto.
<seb128> mpt, will we get an hardware indicator or something that handle keyboard layouts and gnome-bt?
<seb128> mpt, not sure how much of the code we patch will still be there in GNOME3 for those
<seb128> mpt, it would be better to get a system indicator that patching GNOME component for those
<kklimonda> mpt: wrt indicators it's mostly that they don't behave the same as they do in other distributions, even when indicator applet is gone, and app falls back to GtkStatusIcon. But I've had a lengthy discussion with a friend of mine about Unity in general, and he wasn't happy with pushing it so fast to users.
<mpt> seb128, I have a very long list of things I'd like done. That's on it. But nobody works for me. :-)
<seb128> mpt, ;-)
<mpt> seb128, what's the underlying code for the keyboard layouts in particular? xkb?
<Sweetshark> whom should I subscribe bug 753627 to for advice? "Canonical User Experience and Design Team"?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 753627 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "LibreOffice needs an update of the Ubuntu color palette" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/753627
<seb128> mpt, we patch the gnome-settings-daemon notification area icon, but gnome-shell moved to have the indicator as shell code
<mpt> Sweetshark, Paul Sladen
<Sweetshark> mpt: thx
<seb128> mpt, well the notification area code is probably still there for the fallback session but still it would make our job easier to move that to a real indicator than patching GNOME fallback code
<kklimonda> mpt: I believe his choice of words was "pushing not finished software, and making users test it, is immoral" and that "FOSS should compete with closed source with stability, engaging users, and getting their trust, and not with features". So yes, he's working with FSF (or rather the Polish counterpart) but he does have a point. What if we gamble with Unity, and lose?
<mpt> seb128, so as I understand it, there are roughly three options, (1) (easiest) port the existing application indicator to the new version of g-s-d; (2) convert the existing application indicator to a basic system indicator; (3) (nicest) implement the full-blown KeyboardSettings spec as a system indicator.
<seb128> mpt, right
<mpt> ok
<seb128> mterry, bug #743564
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 743564 in indicator-application (Ubuntu) "indicator-application-service crashed with SIGSEGV, when starting Quassel Client" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/743564
<seb128> mterry, please check on that one as well
<seb128> mterry, then we are done with indicator-application cleaning ;-)
<mterry> seb128, why do indicators crash all the time?  :)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: just read your ffox translations proposal; that makes a lot of sense to me
<seb128> mterry, it's all ted's fault
<seb128> ;-)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: (answering in detail by email now)
<kklimonda> wow, my .xsession-errors got to 1.1G in gnome-shell..
<seb128> mterry, but joke aside we are hitting the bottom of it I think, we don't have frequent crashers reported recently, only a few corner cases
<mterry> seb128, yeah
<mterry> mpt, btw, when a user clicks on the other locations in the datetime indicator, what is your desired behavior?  right now nothing happens but we used to have it switch your timezone (with an authorization prompt)
<mpt> mterry, yes, change the time zone
<mpt> oh, huh, I didn't mention that in the spec, derp
<mpt> mterry, sorry about that. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeAndDate?action=diff&rev2=34&rev1=33
<chrisccoulson> pitti - thanks for the comments on the e-mail, i'll take a look in a bit
<seb128> chrisccoulson, what happened to the email client topic? ;-)
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - oh, i'm getting round to it, i'm just trying to get a couple of other issues out of the way first :)
<mpt> kklimonda, then we'd be in a difficult situation. But the indicators work independently from the rest of Unity (as demonstrated by 10.04 and 10.10).
<seb128> kklimonda, we don't gamble a lot, classic GNOME is still available in the default installation and the same it was in 10.10, gnome-shell is available in a ppa with GNOME3, KDE is available... up to the user to pick
<seb128> kklimonda, we add options and set on a default one but we don't force anyone to use those
<mterry> tedg, you doing an indicator-datetime release today?  I have a branch I want to squeeze in if it's not too late
<tedg> mterry, I am doing one, it's not too late.
<tedg> For some reason I'm failing to upload to LP for dbusmenu :-(
<mterry> tedg, the code to switch timezones when you click one in the menu disappeared from teh codebase, so I'm adding it back in
<tedg> mterry, Uhm.  wow.  Oops.
<mterry> tedg, it seems to be because the old code used liboops, so we were like "well, let'd drop that crap", but never added in new shiny code
<kklimonda> seb128: right, but it is a default option, and that's what most people will see, and what they'll judge. I know that we have to get it tested as much as possible before the next LTS, but if reviews (from both users and bloggers/journalists) indicate that Unity wasn't ready then it's going to be hard to bring back them later, when it's finally ready. I guess what I'd like it is for Ubuntu to
<kklimonda> slow down, but I know we can't, so I'd like to make LTS releases what people use, and call other releases "tech previews", but that has too many downsides, and knowing all that makes me frustrated, and I don't know what to do. ;)
<seb128> kklimonda, well unity doesn't feel ready to you? what concerns do you have about current natty?
<seb128> kklimonda, the plan has been from the start to ship it if ready or to ship the classic GNOME otherwise, that didn't change
<kklimonda> seb128: the global menu is hidden by default, I have a problem managing my applications when I run more then 10 of them, and some icons are "folded".
<seb128> well those are small issues
<kklimonda> oh, and it crashes a lot for me, but I blame nvidia blob for this. :)
<seb128> the first one is a discovaribility issue
<seb128> well some people had difficulties managing applications with GNOME
<seb128> some have with gnome-shell
<seb128> none of those issues seem real show stopper ones
<kklimonda> seb128: it's more than just a discoverability issue - when the menu is visible I know where to move the mouse but when it's hidden I first have to show it.
<kklimonda> it makes it harder (or slower) for me to access menu
<seb128> well you have to learn once where the menu is
<seb128> then you know where to move the mouse
<seb128> no?
<kklimonda> seb128: but when I don't see the "File Edit Help" I don't know where to move it exactly.
<seb128> oh, I know what you mean
<seb128> do you use the menus that often?
<seb128> I almost never use any menu
<seb128> but yeah, it makes it like 1 second slower to aim maybe when you want to open a menu with the mouse
<dobey> in the apps where i have to use the menu often, it's quite annoying. mainly the evolution composer window
<kklimonda> seb128: I use it quite a lot in Evolution
<seb128> so maybe we need to tweak the composer bar to have the useful icons
<seb128> what actions do you miss there?
<seb128> kklimonda, well those are small usability issues, it's not like GNOME2 didn't have any
<dobey> mainly i always have to go to the menu to change the page format. it doesn't have a keybinding or icon because it's a radio selection group now, and not a toggle as it used to be
<seb128> that doesn't mean they are not improvements in new desktops as well
<kklimonda> seb128: I don't really use toolbar (probably should have).
<dobey> i have lots of problems with unity that are much larger issues, but i don't really have time to go into all of them :(
<kklimonda> rodrigo_: hmm.. any idea what may be a reason for this bug: http://people.ubuntu.com/~kklimonda/wtf.png
<kklimonda> rodrigo_: it's gnome3 from ppa, and I'm running nouveau
<mterry> tedg, https://code.launchpad.net/~mterry/indicator-datetime/switch-tz-from-menu/+register-merge
<mterry> whoops
<mterry> tedg, https://code.launchpad.net/~mterry/indicator-datetime/switch-tz-from-menu/+merge/56791
<rodrigo_> kklimonda, hmm, nouveau driver problem, I guess
<kklimonda> damn
<kklimonda> but it worked fine... two weeks ago
<rodrigo_> kklimonda, I've seen something similar on unity, moving to another workspace and back fixed it for me
<rodrigo_> kklimonda, some redraw problem I guess
<rodrigo_> cyphermox, are you working on this one -> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/evolution-data-server/+bug/751751 ?
<ubot5> Error: Launchpad(https://launchpad.net) bug 751751 not found
<cyphermox> rodrigo_, not yet
<rodrigo_> cyphermox, ok, I'll get it, I think I know wht the problem is
<cyphermox> cool :)
<rodrigo_> cyphermox, in fact, if my fix fixes the problem, that might be the cause of other google backend problems
<cyphermox> rodrigo_, I fixed one of the google issues... but what's your fix?
<rodrigo_> cyphermox, since we are "forcing" 2.32 to use gdata 0.7, that new API expects a GCancellable, and if NULL, it just aborts
<rodrigo_> 0.6 accepted a NULL GCancellable, but not 0.7
<cyphermox> rodrigo_, awesome, that's something else ;)
<rodrigo_> but haven't really confirmed yet
<rodrigo_> cyphermox, what's the other things you're seeing?
<cyphermox> rodrigo_, i did the port to 0.7 and messed up in the updated_min call ;)
<rodrigo_> ah
<cyphermox> rodrigo_, if you want to include my fix in your testing: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~mathieu-tl/evolution-data-server/lp720434
<chrisccoulson> dang, my machine is in a right mess after upgrading
<chrisccoulson> Cannot open pixbuf loader module file '/usr/lib/gdk-pixbuf-2.0/2.10.0/loaders.cache': No such file or directory
<chrisccoulson> i'm guessing that's because the upgrade aborted
<rodrigo_> cyphermox, ok
<chrisccoulson> ah, yes. loads of stuff still unconfigured
<cyphermox> chrisccoulson, dunno, i saw this this morning too
<chrisccoulson> cyphermox, the update aborted because of file conflicts with branding-ubuntu
<cyphermox> chrisccoulson, ok
<chrisccoulson> cyphermox, bug  753449 is the cause of all my problems
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 753449 in branding-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "package branding-ubuntu 0.5 failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite '/usr/share/gnome-games/quadrapassel/pixmaps/quadrapassel.svg', which is also in package quadrapassel 1:2.32.1-0ubuntu3" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/753449
<rodrigo_> cyphermox, https://code.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/natty/evolution-data-server/fix-gdata-0.7-porting <- I am not sure though if it fixes it, since for me it works both with and without that
<rodrigo_> cyphermox, so feel free to not include it in your branch
<rodrigo_> cyphermox, what's the correct libgdata version to have >= 0.7?
<rodrigo_> I have all these -> http://pastebin.com/xwRUY0mW
<seb128> rodrigo_, bounced bug #752468 your way as well though it's mostly a "need details from the submitter"
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 752468 in evolution (Ubuntu) "Evolution Contacts is very broken in Natty Beta 1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/752468
<seb128> it might be due to one of the issues you already worked on or fixed in natty
<cyphermox> rodrigo_, you should have 11 -- 0.8.0. libgdata10 is supposed to not be used by anything anymore
<cyphermox> rodrigo_, I'll build a local package with your changes and see how well it works for me, and try to reproduce the crash
<cyphermox> seb128, Invalid query for Google contacts is what we were just discussing... I messed up the patch to port gdata to 0.7
<seb128> right
<pitti> impressive unity changelog, as always :)
<seb128> the bug also mention ubuntuone issues
<seb128> pitti, indeed ;-)
<cyphermox> yes... that's definitely something else ;)
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok
<seb128> thanks
<rodrigo_> cyphermox, ok
 * didrocks waves goodnight
<pitti> good night everyone
<nperry> Trying the gnome 3 stack and getting  trying to overwrite '/usr/lib/mutter/Meta-3.0.typelib', which is also in package gir1.2-mutter-2.91 3.0.0-0ubuntu1~build1
<czajkowski> nhandler: /c
<czajkowski> bah
 * JFo waves
<jcastro> Laney: so I did a reinstall today and can confirm this: http://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/gkwvn/i_found_out_how_to_make_banshee_really_fast/
<jcastro> that the plugin is enabled by default
<Laney> ooer
<jcastro> I can't tell if it's any faster or not
<jcastro> but think it might be worth investigating
<Laney> that's two issues: speed and the open port
<Laney> the port is daap sharing
<Laney> jcastro: it's pretty late now, we can revisit the list of default extensions for O if you want?
<Laney> unless having daap on by default is a massive problem
<mdeslaur> Laney: uhm...we need to close the open port
<mdeslaur> Laney: is the open port daap?
<Laney> yes
<jcastro> Laney: your decision, I was just pointing it out.
<Laney> Can't say I've been bothered by startup time :-)
<jcastro> Laney: I wonder if we can measure how much each plugin affects startup? Also, let's say I load it up, hit play, and all these web-enabled plugins spam my network connection, etc.
<jcastro> but yeah, O material
<Laney> I'd like to do that, and I think upstream would probably be interested too
<Laney> things like internet archive can probably go to false without much pain
<mdeslaur> Laney: so by default, everyone's music is shared on the local network?
<jcastro> mdeslaur: other way around
<jcastro> if someone is sharing on the network it finds that music
<mdeslaur> jcastro: I don't seem to have an option to choose if _my_ music is being shared or not...and the open port would seem to indicate it's available to others...or am I missing something?
<jcastro> we must be, banshee doesn't have music serving capabilities
<bcurtiswx> mdeslaur, AFAIK banshee can share your music and get ones from others on the local loopback
<Laney> it's some weird proxy
<Laney> mdeslaur: apparently it's a proxy which is needed for gst (I don't really understand)
<Amaranth> hmm, I think I should request emerald be removed from the archive
<Laney> gabriel is fixing it to bind to localhost only
<mdeslaur> Laney: for gst? that's odd
<Laney> definitely
<Amaranth> It hasn't been updated since hardy and it doesn't work with modern compiz
<Amaranth> But now it doesn't compile either so someone finally noticed
<mdeslaur> Laney: it there a bug open for the open port, so we can track it?
<Laney> don't think so
<Laney> i will grab the commit
<tedg> mterry, Are you looking at bug 743564
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 743564 in indicator-application (Ubuntu) "indicator-application-service crashed with SIGSEGV, when starting Quassel Client" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/743564
<mterry> tedg, yeah
<mterry> tedg, not quite sure why it's happening yet
<tedg> mterry, Okay.  Don't let me interrupt :-)
<mdeslaur> Laney: bug 753986
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 753986 in banshee (Ubuntu) "daap plugin opens port by default" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/753986
<Laney> cheers
<Laney> can you confirm that listening to loopback is ok as a fix?
<mdeslaur> Laney: yeah, that's ok
<Laney> cool
<Laney> jcastro: thanks for the tip
<broder> what X event gets sent when the window in focus changes? is it a CirculateNotify or something else?
<broder> (i'm trying to follow a code path in compiz)
<jcastro> Laney: thanks for the quick response!
<jbicha> I want to experiment with the gnome3 ppa packaging but I don't see the original source in bzr, just the debian directory
<jbicha> ok, I found https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Bzr which helps some
<jbwiv_> guys, regarding the gnome3 ppa, after I've added it and apt-get updated, what do I install to actually get gnome3?
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-04-08
<jbicha> jbwiv_: did you get your question answered yet?
<broder> Hmm...so I have two different ATI cards, both running with fglrx. One detects hotplugs; the other doesn't, but detects the new display if I run xrandr -q. I know fglrx is unsupported territory, but does anybody have thoughts on where I could look a priori to determine whether hotplug works or not?
<broder> The alternative is to background a shell script running "while true; do xrandr -q; sleep 5; done", which just seems kind of lame
<broder> (well, I guess I'll have to do that for Card #2, but doing it for Card #1 as well just seems unfortunate if it's avoidable)
<mterry> broder, not sure myself; but you may have better luck in #ubuntu, which is the support channel.  This is a development channel
<RAOF> broder: That's a fine question; I'd guess you'll find that it's based on card generation, but that's possibly the sort of thing that individual card manufacturers can screw up, too.
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone!
<jbicha> good morning
<TheMuso> chrisccoulson: Good morning, for it is still just morning for me. :)
<chrisccoulson> TheMuso, hi! yeah, it's morning here for me too :)
<jbicha> definitely not morning here in the US
<bcurtiswx> rickspencer3, who would approve -devel e-mails to the list (i just replied to the unity as default e-mail)?
<bcurtiswx> chrisccoulson, morning :( im about to contemplate going to bed
<bcurtiswx> where is the wiki for travel info to pair up for UDS ?
<rickspencer3> bcurtiswx, did it not go through?
<bcurtiswx> rickspencer3, i got a bounce e-mail from -devel
<bcurtiswx> not sure exactly
<rickspencer3> It may appear to be a couple steps back, but I think in the end we
<rickspencer3> will find that Unity as the default desktop environment for 11.04 will
<rickspencer3> be a gigantic leap forward later on.
<rickspencer3> ?
<bcurtiswx> the amount of attention it will receive if we make it default now vs later
<rickspencer3> bcurtiswx, oh, right
<rickspencer3> sorry, I was just trying to confirm for you that your mail got through
<rickspencer3> thanks for hte note bcurtiswx
<bcurtiswx> rickspencer3, ah OK. thanks for allowing another voice
<TheMuso> I think bcurtiswx is referring to ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com.
<bcurtiswx> TheMuso, I am
<bcurtiswx> but now i'm confused
<TheMuso> Right, I am not sure who has mod powers on that list.
<rickspencer3> TheMuso, did his email not come through there?
<jcastro> it went through
<rickspencer3> maybe it only came throuhg on the desktop list, I got it twice
<TheMuso> Haven't checked, ahng on.
<rickspencer3> jcastro, but I wrote to @u-desktop, and cc'ed u-devel
<bcurtiswx> jcastro, thx
<rickspencer3> anyway, TheMuso, RAOF, robert_ancell, if you disagree, you can raise the issue with your no-good-boss jasoncwarner1 ;)
<jcastro> oh right, I see that
<TheMuso> I have no issue with it. :)
<TheMuso> I can't wait to be able to use it more.
 * RAOF waits for his mail to finish filtering.
<rickspencer3> hi all
<ayan> hi!
<rickspencer3> ayan, says that he just upgraded, it sounds like he's getting only the classic desktop, but he wants Unity
<rickspencer3> ayan, did you choose Ubuntu when you logged in?
<ayan> ah ha!  my unity does not support my graphics hardware.
<ayan> just fyi, i'm using a thinkpad x201.
<rickspencer3> ayan, well, you could try installing hte Qt version
<RAOF> ayan: Which particular x201?  They should all be pretty well supported, as they're using Intel graphics, but there's all sorts of variation possible.
<ayan> RAOF: how do i distinuish it from other x201?  would you like the model number?
<RAOF> robert_ancell: You're a GTK god, right?  Banshee seems to be consuming ~10% CPU while playing music due to the position slider being updated at 5Hz, but it looks like it's triggering an expose event for the entire window.  Is that something gtk normally does?
<RAOF> ayan: The question is mostly how new it is, and what CPU it has.  Another factor is whether it uses eDP or LVDS (and there's not a trivial way to find out, really), but since you can apparently *see* stuff on the screen that's not likely to be a problem :)
<RAOF> ayan: This is probably better done in #ubuntu-x, too.
<robert_ancell> RAOF, um, don't know it that well.  This is GTK2 right?  I think it would have to, to draw the window underneath the slider.   But the area should only be under the slider and nothing else should need drawing
<robert_ancell> RAOF, does banshee have a lot of custom drawing in the main window expose method?
<RAOF> Banshee is *all about* custom drawing.
<robert_ancell> yeah, I thought that might be the case
<rickspencer3> simple-player by default in 11.10?
<rickspencer3> it shows the song title
<RAOF> I'll check my hypothesis then go expose hunting.
<robert_ancell> RAOF, thinking about it, it really must draw the background - if you had a pixmap window background then it would have to draw it, then the slider elements over it
<RAOF> rickspencer3: Muinshee works too, presumably because it's got a much simpler main window :).
 * robert_ancell -> lunch
<RAOF> Ah.  I see we've managed to hook up fsck.btrfs to the boot sequence now.  Hurray â¹.
<TheMuso> RAOF: hrm interesting. I thought that would have been one of the first things that needed doing for btrfs support. :)
<RAOF> Well, given fsck.btrfs doesn't actually *fix* any errors yet I can see why it might have been lowish priority :)
<TheMuso> Ah, right.
<TheMuso> Probably because the FS is still maturing.
<jcastro> RAOF: did dbo and/or smspillaz talk to you guys about documenting video hw requirements for unity?
<RAOF> jcastro: Not as far as I'm aware.
<jcastro> don't worry they were going to do it, I just told them to run it by you guys first.
 * jcastro will follow up with them
<RAOF> Wow.  Why is text rendering so expensive?
<lifeless> RAOF: 3d ?
<RAOF> No; A (pretty simple) pango layout.
<RAOF> But rendering â1:02 of 3:33â at 5Hz results in ~5% CPU utilisation.
<lifeless> win
<RAOF> Yeah.
<lifeless> try xterm :P
 * lifeless doesn't have any pango based text visible on screen most of the time
<RAOF> Yay bitmap fonts.
<lifeless> hmm, I thought it did them all these days
<RAOF> Ok.  I've got *most* of the Banshee CPU use killed.
<RAOF> robert_ancell: I don't suppose you'd know whether receiving two essentially simultaneous expose-events for a widget is normal?
<robert_ancell> RAOF, I would have thought that shouldn't happen
<RAOF> So would I.
<robert_ancell> is anything calling the expose handler directly?
<RAOF> Not that I can tell.
<robert_ancell> otherwise everything should just call gtk_widget_queue_draw and only one redraw occurs
<robert_ancell> does anything call queue_draw inside the expose event?
<RAOF> Sequence is: UpdateLabel() calls QueueResize(); OnSizeRequested gets called exactly once; OnExposeEvent gets called twice.
<RAOF> The only thing which could possibly do that is the call to PaintLayout, but if that were the case I'd expect to get an unending stream of redraw events, as it's called each redraw.
<robert_ancell> RAOF, hmm, I just made a little PyGTK example.  There are four exposes on startup, and two when queue_resize is called
<robert_ancell> but they have different areas
<RAOF> (Specifically, that's gtk_paint_layout())
<robert_ancell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/591096/
<RAOF> Hm.  I get identical areas.
<RAOF> Although that might be because the actual size isn't changing.
<RAOF> Hm.  And if I don't redraw the second time I don't get any text.
<RAOF> And if I don't redraw the *first* time and do the second time the text is there.  Presumably the first redraw is clearing the background, or somesuch.
<robert_ancell> RAOF, hey, do you know why we didn't go with mono 2.10 in natty?
<RAOF> Yup.
<RAOF> Because it wasn't packaged until about 5 days ago.
<RAOF> And 2.10 had a bunch of regressions.
<robert_ancell> fixed now?
<RAOF> Yeah.
<RAOF> Mono's really maintained in Debian, so the freeze had a certain chilling effect, too.
<RAOF> But 2.10.1 is in experimental now, so we'll have it in Oneiric early.
<smspillaz> RAOF: poke
<smspillaz> RAOF: was the nvidia driver updated recently ?
<RAOF> Um...
<RAOF> Not by me, obviously.
<smspillaz> (I'm looking at bug 752445)
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 752445 in compiz (Ubuntu) "Intermittent white window contents when maximizing/switching windows" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/752445
<smspillaz> RAOF: ah, well in the pacakge ?
<RAOF> Most recent change was 18 Mar.
<smspillaz> I'm thinking that we must have gotten a broken driver and was wondering if we could revert it if possible
<smspillaz> since window contents should definitely *not* be white just because the card is running low on texture memory (it only happens with large windows which is why I suppose this happens)
<smspillaz> I haven't been able to confirm this myself unforuntately
<RAOF> Bah.
<smspillaz> yeah, exactly
<RAOF> Hurray for the black window bug!
<smspillaz> RAOF: I'm wondering if this is related to the memory usage smackdown
<RAOF> Now back, but, like the iPad, available in white!
 * TheMuso can check natty-changes for the last upload if thats of any help.
<smspillaz> RAOF: I haven't been able to get any compiz logs of this, but I would imagine that glXTexturePixmapEXT is returning false because the server could never allocate the pixmap
<TheMuso> Yeah 18 march with a new upstream release.
<TheMuso> Trouble is, the new upstream release properly supports the new ABI...
<smspillaz> brilliant
<smspillaz> this is why prorprietary drivers suck
<smspillaz> </rant>
<RAOF> smspillaz: Time to force indirect rendering on nvidia again? :)
<smspillaz> RAOF: unity doesn't work with indirect rendering
<smspillaz> RAOF: it needs the available GL version to be >= 2.0
<smspillaz> otherwise it willdie
<RAOF> nvidia's GLX doesn't have protocol for newer GL?
 * RAOF has never tried, obviously.
<smspillaz> RAOF: I'm pretty sure the server GLX protocol only goes up to 1.6 ?
<RAOF> smspillaz: The *open source* GLX protocol goes up to 1.4, but the nvidia drivers replace that.
<smspillaz> RAOF: I guess what we could do for a workaround is try to detect where texture bindinding failed and attempt to re-bind a few seconds later once the server's got its stuff together
<smspillaz> RAOF: Hm, I don't really have unity available to try on me right now, so I can't confirm if --indirect-rendering will work or not
<RAOF> Now that's the sort of high-quality workaround we like to see :)
<smspillaz> *sigh*
<smspillaz> RAOF: unfortunately, we can't rely on nvidia to fix this
<smspillaz> and I see this going from "high" to nuclear if we don't do something about it
<RAOF> It'll only affect crappy nvidia cardsâ¦ :)
<smspillaz> unfortunately we have to support crappy nvidia cards
<smspillaz> and crappy drivers too
<RAOF> You're right that nvidia won't have a fix by release time, though.
<smspillaz> indeed
<smspillaz> RAOF: indirect is an option if we can make it work, however we got forced to indirect by fglrx and look at that disaster
<smspillaz> indirect is also really slow
<smspillaz> it will make unity slow
<RAOF> Isn't unity already slow on nvidia?  I seem to remember reports of such.
<smspillaz> its quite snappy on both nvidia and nouveau
<RAOF> I've tested on nouveau, yeah.  Just not nvidia.
<smspillaz> why does that seem strangely familiar
<RAOF> :)
 * micahg is running nvidia ATM
<TheMuso> RAOF: Have you ever looked into how one could force sbuild to continue should there be a checksum mismatch with archive package metadata?
<TheMuso> Granted I haven't either, but you may know of something that would take me a while to find out otherwise.
<TheMuso> Since you have explored sbuild in greater depth than I.
<lifeless> ...
<lifeless> that seems undesirable
<RAOF> What do you mean?  In the case of a package download having an incorrect checksum?
<lifeless> nag mvo to make apt try harder
<TheMuso> Yeah I know its undesirable, but sbuild never checked/updated archive metadata in the past...
<RAOF> Oh, you mean the pre-build apt update?
<RAOF> set $apt_update = 0; in ~/.sbuildrc
<TheMuso> ooh thanks
<didrocks> good morning
<TheMuso> Hey didrocks.
<didrocks> hey TheMuso :)
<RAOF> Hey didrocks
<didrocks> evening RAOF
<pitti> Good morning
<TheMuso> Hey pitti.
<RAOF> Heya pitti
<pitti> hey RAOF, hello TheMuso!
<didrocks> morning pitti
<pitti> bonjour didrocks, ca va?
 * bryceh_ waves
<didrocks> pitti: Ã§a va bien, merci! :-) you?
<didrocks> hey bryceh_
<bryceh_> heya didrocks
<pitti> pretty well, thanks!
<TheMuso> Ah crap, taking out the games from powerpc only knocked off 4MB. :S
<TheMuso> I guess next step is to try and knock off all dev related packages...
<smspillaz> morning didrocks
<didrocks> hey smspillaz
<smspillaz> fta2: poke
<pitti> TheMuso: do we actually have that many? you mean gcc/binutils/linux-headers etc?
<TheMuso> pitti: yeah, mostly gcc/binutils, since kernel headers were cut in the maverick cycle.
<Sweetshark> Morning all
<TheMuso> I haven't looked hard, because I was hoping the games alone would be enough, but obviously not.
<pitti> hey Sweetshark
<pitti> an extra kernel weighs a lot :-(
<TheMuso> pitti: Yeah but I am tlaking about headers only here. I can't really drop one or the other unfortunately.
<TheMuso> I can't drop one kernel or the other.
<Sweetshark> bug 512395 is kind of pointless as the dekstop files are currently generated directly in the packaging, right?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 512395 in openoffice.org (Ubuntu) "Openoffice.org's .desktop files do not contain translation domain info" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/512395
<rodrigo_> morning
<didrocks> hey rodrigo_, Sweetshark
<rodrigo_> hi didrocks, Sweetshark :)
<pitti> Riddell: good morning
<pitti> Riddell: is the package split in bug 597254 on your radar?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 597254 in srtp (Ubuntu Natty) "[MIR] srtp" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/597254
<pitti> rodrigo_: hey, how are you?
<pitti> rodrigo_: can you please give me a quick status about bug 649809? is the problem there understood, so it's mainly a manpower issue, or still needs to be debugged?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 649809 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu Natty) "the session settings manager can try starting before the login screen one exits" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/649809
<fta2> smspillaz, hi
<rodrigo_> pitti, still trying to find what's failing
<fta2> pitti, hi, is the retracer dead (once again)?
<rodrigo_> pitti, I thought it was the u1's g-s-d plugin, since on vanilla version it works for everyone
<smspillaz> fta2: describe in detail this "screen corruption" issue you're having and exact instructions to reproduce
<pitti> fta2: yes, someone updated udev again, which keeps breaking the dist-upgrade; fixing
<smspillaz> and whether or not you are on nvidia
<pitti> rodrigo_: ah, thanks; so in the "debugging" phase then?
<fta2> smspillaz, which bug?
<rodrigo_> pitti, yes
<pitti> rodrigo_: do you think that this is a regression and affects so many people that it should be release critical?
<smspillaz> fta2: the one you pinged me about yesterday (can't find it in my scrollback)
<rodrigo_> pitti, it seems to affect less people than before the fix, so not sure
<rodrigo_> pitti, but at least high priority, yes
<pitti> rodrigo_: thanks for the heads-up
<fta2> smspillaz, hmm, i didn't ping you since you told me to stop with the xterm bug
<smspillaz> fta2: right, I know about the xterm bug. didrocks said you had an issue with screen corruption
<fta2> smspillaz, but indeed, i filed a regression bug against compiz yesterday
<didrocks> not xterm
<fta2> smspillaz, with a video
<didrocks> chromium
<seb128> hey desktopers
<smspillaz> fta2: link me to it
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<fta2> didrocks, hi, I have a new unity crasher for you :)
<fta2> bug 754098
<ubot5> Error: Launchpad bug 754098 could not be found
<rodrigo_> pitti, hmm, just saw the last comments, some people using maverick, so I guess we should backport the fix to maverick also
<seb128> pitti, guten tag! ;-)
<rodrigo_> hey seb128
<seb128> hey rodrigo_
<pitti> rodrigo_: oh, you think that they said "still happens for me" because of that?
<pitti> good point
<rodrigo_> pitti, no, one of them did, not sure about the others, so just asked them in the bug
<pitti> rodrigo_: perhaps you can follow up asking if anyone still gets that under natty?
<fta2> smspillaz, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/753369
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 753369 in compiz (Ubuntu) "artifacts in chromium" [Undecided,New]
<pitti> rodrigo_: great, thanks! crossing fingers :)
<smspillaz> fta2: exact instructions to reproduce
<smspillaz> there's no video attached
<rodrigo_> pitti, yes, do I prepare a maverick update anyway?
<didrocks> fta2: checking
<pitti> rodrigo_: if it's a safe patch and will help people, sure
<fta2> smspillaz, no, 753369 for you, 754098 was for didrocks ;)
<fta2> smspillaz, the video says it all, any page with a selector will do
<smspillaz> there's no video attached to that
<rodrigo_> pitti, well, let's see what people answer first
<didrocks> fta2: is is private or whatever?
<smspillaz> oh found it
<didrocks> seems like https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/754098 is invalid
<ubot5> Error: Launchpad(https://launchpad.net) bug 754098 not found
<smspillaz> nevermindthat
<seb128> didrocks, it's probably not retraced, I'm checking on those
<fta2> didrocks, is it? it's waiting for the retracer
<smspillaz> fta2: can't reproduce it
<smspillaz> fta2: if it's a damage bug at this stage it will be too difficult to look into time wise
<fta2> smspillaz, with chromium?
<seb128> yeah, the update failed again
<smspillaz> fta2: yes
<didrocks> smspillaz: I confirm it
<didrocks> fta2: nvidia?
<fta2> didrocks, yes
<smspillaz> didrocks: I can't reproduce it
<didrocks> smspillaz: nvidia with proprieratery driver maybe?
<smspillaz> and damage issues are *very* *very* *very* difficult to debug
<smspillaz> didrocks: I have the properietary driver
<seb128> pitti, hum, did you work on the retracers today?
<smspillaz> it's very difficult because it requires tight timing and I don't have time to be spending hours on it
<pitti> seb128: as we speak
<smspillaz> usually race conditions like that are the fault of the driver, there's simply nothing we can do about it
<pitti> seb128: i386 fixed/restarted, amd64 fixing right now
<seb128> pitti, doh ok, that's why upgrade,dist-upgrade lists 0 package to update
<pitti> seb128: see fta2's question from 5 mins ago
<fta2> smspillaz, well, it's a regression with the last update, should be easy to track down
<seb128> pitti, yeah and see my response
<smspillaz> fta2: right, but I can't reproduce it on *either* the update before or the newest update
<pitti> seb128: ah, sorry about that then
<smspillaz> and the newest update doesn't even touch the damage handling code
<seb128> pitti, no worry ;-)
<fta2> smspillaz, (last as in when the bug was filed)
<smspillaz> right, I know
<fta2> smspillaz, which chromium? i see it with ch12 (trunk)
<smspillaz> if its a matter of which chromium version you are using then it is *definitely* not a compiz bug
<pitti> seb128, fta2: both fixed and restarted
<smspillaz> fta2: 10.0.648.204 (79063) FYI
<htorque> fwiw, i see similar artifacts with opera (nvidia blob)
<fta2> smspillaz, no, i don't know, as i said in the bug, i checked older versions of ch that used to work fine before the last compiz and they are now broken
<fta2> hence the regression in compiz
<seb128> pitti, thanks, I've cleaned the logs so I'm reading to run my grep magic on those to see what issues were raised and which ones have duplicates today
<smspillaz> fta2: right, ok, well the damage code in compiz was *not* touched at all recently
<smspillaz> so I can't see any good reason for why that is
<fta2> didrocks, the retraced nux crash was http://paste.ubuntu.com/590979/
<fta2> didrocks, i had a bamfdaemon crash yesterday too
<smspillaz> fta2: (damage == the bit that handles which parts of the screen need redrawing)
<didrocks> fta2: can you ping me once both are retraced? I'll add them to the list for a fix release
<seb128> pitti, btw I will like send an apport patch your way today to put some extra infos in the retracer logs, like add the ubuntu version and the timestamp to the "Report is a duplicate of" lines
<Sweetshark> not good.
<pitti> seb128: oh, thanks
<seb128> pitti, it would make easier for me to make daily stats about natty crashes and to report the most popular ones
<Sweetshark> I clicked around a bit in the system settings->appearance and now my windows controls minimize/maximize/close are on the RIGHT
<fta2> didrocks, i didn't file bug for the bamfdaemon crasher, not sure how it happened
<fta2> apparently an assert.. "Failed to register GObject with DBusConnection"
<fta2> but i can file one if you want
<Sweetshark> Does anyone have an idea how I reset that setting? Where is that stored? ~/.compiz?
<RAOF> Sweetshark: I'm pretty sure it's in gconf
<vish> Sweetshark: /apps/metacity/general/button_layout Â« you can change there
<Sweetshark> vish: also for unity/compiz?
<vish> yup
 * Sweetshark tries
<vish> Sweetshark: if it has not been altered there, it usually is cause the gnome-settings-daemon has bad memory ;p , you'd have to close and reopen the appearance settings and re-select the theme
<Riddell> pitti: I dropped our build-depend on srtp and linphone so it should be possible to move to universe now
<pitti> or that way around, thanks
<Sweetshark> RAOF, vish: thank you very much.
<htorque> smspillaz: issue in chromium after bookmarking a page: http://img.xrmb2.net/images/985729.png in opera after closing a bookmark menu: http://img.xrmb2.net/images/955227.png - does not happen without compiz, does only happen with nvidia blob
 * Sweetshark is tempted to start a "gconf is like the windows registry"-flamewar. After all it is friday.
<smspillaz> htorque: I'll try reinstalling. I cannot reproduce any of these issues
<fta2> didrocks, just curious, why can't you see private bugs? I can
<vish> pitti: re: the icon for nautilus on launcher, i removed the icon which has a pointer on the folder and the icon of the cabinet is from gnome-icon theme(but seems Mark doesnt like tht either and I'm not sure if anyone is working on a new version, maybe sladen knows or didrocks ); the home folder icon i've pushed to ubuntu-mono and that needs to be released
<didrocks> fta2: you need to be susbribed to see it
<didrocks> vish: sladen is the design packager
<fta2> didrocks, i'm bug control apparently, but maybe you should be too
<vish> didrocks: cool! but just letting you know as well, i dont know what's going on there :)
<htorque> smspillaz: maybe easier to reproduce: make a gnome-terminal small enough so a menu would stick out of the window, then move the window. here's what i get: http://img.xrmb2.net/images/112558.png
<pitti> chrisccoulson: just discussed mono for bug 740815; this will resolve mono, gluezilla, and xulrunner-1.9.2 tasks; so I think the remaining one is LibO
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 740815 in xulrunner-1.9.2 (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Updates to enable us to drop xulrunner from main" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/740815
<chrisccoulson> pitti - excellent, thanks!
<chrisccoulson> pitti - would you mind sponsoring the xdg-utils diff on bug 670128 when you get a few moments please? :)
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 670128 in xdg-utils (Ubuntu Natty) "gnome-open uses firefox while it's not the preferred browser" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/670128
<didrocks> vish: I don't know either, let's wait sladen dealing with that
<htorque> smspillaz: sorry, that wasn't a gnome-terminal menu, but the window manager's context menu
<pitti> vish: ah, so the effect of the bug is now different (having an "ugly" instead of a "pointer" icon), but still needs to be fixed then
<pitti> chrisccoulson: sure, queueing
<chrisccoulson> thanks
<pitti> chrisccoulson: thanks for getting this fixed! one more bites the dust \o/
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, i just need to fix it in chromium too now (that ships a copy of xdg-utils)
<chrisccoulson> i'll send the mimeapps.list changes upstream as well
<chrisccoulson> i had to fix that bit myself
<pitti> chrisccoulson: ah, that's different to bug 727372, though?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 727372 in firefox (Ubuntu Natty) "FF 4 requires both .desktop and gconf entries for url handlers" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/727372
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah. i'll land the patch for that in our packaging branch today
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson
<seb128> how are you?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: ah, thanks; they sounded similar
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128, i'm good thanks, how are you?
<seb128> I'm fine thanks
<pitti> Sweetshark: do you know what LibO needs from xulrunner? we need to drop the build dependency
<dpm> hi Sweetshark. I've added a proposal on bug 512395, would you mind checking out if it makes sense?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 512395 in Ubuntu Translations "Openoffice.org's .desktop files do not contain translation domain info" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/512395
<pitti> I need to run out for a couple of hours to care for my grandma a bit; I expect to be back around 1400 UTC
<Sweetshark> pitti: IIRC mostly for adressbook integration for databases and mailmerge. But there is one when building with --disable-mozilla, "macro security" breaks.
<Sweetshark> breaks meaning at least: Tools->Options->Security->Macro Security wont open a dialog and wont allow changes (thus giving any selfrespecting admin a heartattack)
<Sweetshark> dpm: makes sense from what little i know about the translation infrastructure.
<dpm> Sweetshark, cool. Would you be up for having a session at UDS on LO translations going forward?
<Sweetshark> dpm: The only thing I have done wrt l10n is rewriting the build system for it. I dont know much about the actual workflow of translators currently. What I remember is that the use pootle, then translate to LOs internal ressource format, which is then used in the build.
<Sweetshark> I would have to get it contact with the people doing that stuff first.
<dpm> Sweetshark, ok, let me send you an e-mail and let's have a chat about it when you've got a minute
<chrisccoulson> Sweetshark, so, without --disable-mozilla, do you know which parts of mozilla that openoffice is using?
<Sweetshark> dpm: great, lets do that.
<Sweetshark> chrisccoulson: hard to define, there is an option to use a precompiled mozilla and not build you own, but that is a _complete_ mozilla build.
<Sweetshark> chrisccoulson: here is one hint: http://opengrok.libreoffice.org/xref/libs-extern/libxmlsec/makefile.mk#40
<chrisccoulson> Sweetshark, oh, so is it actually just using nss?
<Sweetshark> chrisccoulson: no
<Sweetshark> chrisccoulson: thats one place, it also uses it for the addressbook around here http://opengrok.libreoffice.org/xref/libs-core/connectivity/source/drivers/mozab/makefile.mk#34
<Sweetshark> and that stuff also get used in mailmerge IIRC.
<Sweetshark> chrisccoulson: what is the root problem with the xulrunner build dep?
<Sweetshark> chrisccoulson: according to this: http://openoffice.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=17187#c24
<ubot5> Error: Could not parse XML returned by OpenOffice.org: HTTP Error 404: Not Found (http://openoffice.org/issues/xml.cgi?id=17187)
<Sweetshark> --disable-mozilla means no addressbook, no xmlsec (because of nss), no LDAP
<chrisccoulson> Sweetshark, xulrunner is basically unsupportable now :(
<chrisccoulson> also, xulrunner doesn't support LDAP (you need to use the thunderbird SDK for that). are you sure openoffice doesn't switch to another ldap provider for that?
<Sweetshark> chrisccoulson: OOo used their own old flaky mozilla precompiles from http://tools.openoffice.org/moz_prebuild/680/
<ubot5> Error: Could not parse XML returned by OpenOffice.org: HTTP Error 404: Not Found (http://openoffice.org/issues/xml.cgi?id=680)
 * Sweetshark is gonna ask on #libreoffice
<chrisccoulson> thanks
<chrisccoulson> Sweetshark, basically, this is the problem for us: http://mozilla.github.com/process-releases/draft/development_overview/
<chrisccoulson> if we keep it in main, we're committed to either maintaing old branches with security fixes, or rolling out new major versions across all stable releases every few weeks (and fixing all of the associated breakage)
<chrisccoulson> and i don't want to end up spending all of my time doing that ;)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: come one!
<chrisccoulson> lol
 * didrocks hugs chrisccoulson :-)
<chrisccoulson> i care about firefox, i don't care about xulrunner ;)
 * chrisccoulson hugs didrocks
<Sweetshark> chrisccoulson: well ...
<seb128> rodrigo_, could you check on bug #754152
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 754152 in evolution (Ubuntu) "Evolution unable to open CouchDB address book" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/754152
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, I guess it's a duplicate, but checking...
<chrisccoulson> i always get frightened when i see people talking about couchdb bugs
<chrisccoulson> i think that they're going to blame me for breaking it again ;)
<Sweetshark> loosing xmlsec in LO is not an option IMHO, loosing the Thunderbird integration maybe. For LDAP Id need to check if that still needs xulrunner.
<chrisccoulson> i'm pretty sure the ldap stuff doesn't require xulrunner, as xulrunner has no LDAP library in it at all
<chrisccoulson> all the LDAP stuff is in thunderbird, and i don't think openoffice is depending on that is it?
<Sweetshark> that would mean to split up the dependency on nss and the one thunderbird/xulrunner etc. -- but I suspect that to be nontrivial otherwise it should have been long done.
<Sweetshark> chrisccoulson: http://opengrok.libreoffice.org/xref/libs-core/connectivity/source/drivers/mozab/makefile.mk#61
<Sweetshark> dunno about that libs, do you?
<Sweetshark> ah, wait ...
<Sweetshark> we are building with SYSTEM_MOZILLA, I guess which disables the mozilla addressbook anyway, because that only work against those old rotten prebuild mozilla binaries.
<Sweetshark> so it might be that we really actually only use nss (because the other stuff is broken anyway).
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i hope we really only use nss :)
<Sweetshark> in that case it might be just a bit of configure.in tweakage.
<chrisccoulson> there are certainly no binary depends between openoffice and xulrunner to keep xulrunner installed on the system
<chrisccoulson> so, if it really is using it, we'd need to fix that anyway
<chrisccoulson> and xulrunner is also not on the CD now either
<Sweetshark> no guarantees though, LO/OOo is a treacherous beast.
<chrisccoulson> heh :)
<chrisccoulson> i'd be happy to help, although it might take me a week to find where i need to look ;)
<Sweetshark> hm, theres is another one and that is the odf-viewer plugin in firefox itself.
<chrisccoulson> Sweetshark, is that a cross-browser (NPAPI) plugin?
<chrisccoulson> or is it using mozilla code too?
<chrisccoulson> we already have a solution for NPAPI plugins :)
<Sweetshark> chrisccoulson: http://opengrok.libreoffice.org/xref/components/extensions/source/plugin/unx/ uhm, you tell me?
<kamstrup> mvo: is it possible to launch S-C and have it display a specific category like "Games"?
<chrisccoulson> Sweetshark, it's not including any mozilla headers there, so it looks like a pure NPAPI plugin
<chrisccoulson> in which case, you can build-depend on firefox-dev for that (or, you might not even need that if openoffice already has a copy of the npapi headers)
<Sweetshark> chrisccoulson: we'll need firefox-dev I guess. nss is also already in the source, but I still have to grok how/if it is used in our current build: http://opengrok.libreoffice.org/xref/libs-extern-sys/nss/readme.txt
<chrisccoulson> thanks
<Sweetshark> so if we a) link against nss only from xmlsec b) use firefox-dev for the plugin c) not use the adressbook. it should work out.
<chrisccoulson> sounds good :)
<Sweetshark> _rene_ just said on #libreoffice-dev: "12:46 <@_rene_> xulrunner *is* the system-mozilla :) (and it has the mentioned headers)"
<mvo> kamstrup: not currently
<Sweetshark> chrisccoulson: do we differ from debian there wrt to packaging (of the needed headers)?
<kamstrup> mvo: ok
<chrisccoulson> Sweetshark, no. there's no LDAP headers anywhere in the mozilla codebase
<chrisccoulson> only in thunderbird
<chrisccoulson> Sweetshark, these are the idl files which are used to generate the LDAP headers: http://hg.mozilla.org/comm-central/file/c3227fb51b3f/ldap/xpcom/public
<Sweetshark> yeah, ldap/adressbook is disabled anyway with SYSTEM_MOZILLA. I wonder about the NPAPI headers being in xulrunner/firefox-dev.
<Sweetshark> chrisccoulson: You could also come over to libreoffice-dev and we could discuss directly with _rene_ there ;)
<chrisccoulson> Sweetshark, is that on freenode?
<chrisccoulson> xchat just crashed when i tried to join ;)
<Sweetshark> chrisccoulson: yes, I saw you join and crash.
<chrisccoulson> 1 second, trying again ;)
<Sweetshark> chrisccoulson: whats the timeline on this?
<chrisccoulson> Sweetshark, that's probably a pitti question. pitti - when are we really frozen for release?
<Sweetshark> ok, so the target is natty.
<TheMuso> pitti: Seems that even if I remove expplicit inclusion of gcc and make in the desktop seed for powerpc, the still get pulled in via aptdaemon, recommending lintian, recommending build-essential and dpkg-dev.
<fta2> didrocks, bug 754098  (seems it's a dupe now)
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 754098 in unity (Ubuntu) "compiz crashed with SIGSEGV in operator--() (dup-of: 754118)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/754098
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 754118 in unity (Ubuntu) "compiz crashed with SIGSEGV in operator--()" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/754118
<didrocks> ok, seems nuxish
<dpm> hey didrocks, do you know if there is any alternative shortcut in unity for what used to be Super+t (show all apps in a workspace) and Super+a(show all apps in all workspaces)
<didrocks> dpm: super + W
<didrocks> for show all apps in all ws
<didrocks> I resetted show all apps in a ws to default IIRC
<didrocks> (it's ctrl + alt + whateverâ¦ should be in ccsm)
<dpm> didrocks, oh, awesome, thanks. "I resetted show all apps in a ws to default IIRC" -> I'm not sure I understand this bit. Do you mean that in a next unity update super + w will show apps in a ws instead in all ws's?
<didrocks> dpm: no, super + w wasn't the upstream defaults
<dpm> didrocks, oh, I see. Cool, so I can use super+w. If I want to have a shortcut to show all windows in a ws do I have to install ccsm and configure the shortcut?
<didrocks> dpm: exactly ;)
<dpm> didrocks, ok, thanks!
<didrocks> it's like good old days ;)
<didrocks> dpm: yw
<dpm> didrocks, ah, and another question: I used to be able to shift+click on a launcher to open a new window. Now that functionality is gone, but I still can use the super+shift+number functionality to do the same. So is the shift+click function gone by design, or shall I report a bug?
<didrocks> oh really?
 * didrocks checks
<dpm> it's been gone for a while
<didrocks> it has regressed, yeah
<didrocks> dpm: open a bug, assigned me
<dpm> didrocks, yessir!
<dpm> didrocks, bug 754565, but I lack the permissions to assign it to you
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 754565 in unity (Ubuntu) "Regression: shift+click on a launcher icon to open a new application instance gone" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/754565
<htorque> smspillaz: hi, http://paste.ubuntu.com/591220/ - that's the only nouveau-related error that changed (almost doubled) when causing the bug a couple of times (compared to a valgrind that just started compiz)
<htorque> smspillaz: does this look like it makes sense?
<didrocks> dpm: btw, you want to change the "scale" plugin in ccsm
<dpm> didrocks, ok thanks for the pointer. I don't have ccsm installed, though, so I'll see if I can manage to remember the Shift+Alt+Up shortcut, which seems to do the same :)
<didrocks> ;)
<JanC> dpm: middle click also opens a new window (in case you need it)
<JanC> and can use it
<didrocks> JanC: do you have a real mouse?
<dpm> JanC, yeah, I knew that one, thanks. It's just that when I'm on the laptop I don't usually do middle click
<JanC> yes, I know it might be difficult with a trackpad  âº
<dpm> the two buttons at the same time do the trick, but it's a bit difficult and it defeats the purpose
<didrocks> yeah, xorg middle emulation issue
<didrocks> bryceh_: tseliot: we spoke about that one, why finally this was changed? ^^
<JanC> I always carry a mouse in my backpack  ;)
<tseliot> tjaalton: ^^
<tjaalton> nothing was changed, natty has been without middle mouse emulation since evdev 2.6 hit the archive late january
<tjaalton> there is a quirk for the ubuntu mouse
<tjaalton> so if you have usb mice that need one just open a new bug
<smspillaz> desrt: ping
<smspillaz> desrt: seems that gdbusconnection.c:1934 quits the compiz main loop
<smspillaz> g_main_loop_quit (data->loop);
<smspillaz> tracing what it might be
<smspillaz> oh, ok, hang on a minute, that's not right
<smspillaz> there's no main loop created at that point in compiz
<fta2> didrocks, do you want a bug for the bamfdaemon assert()?
<seb128> smspillaz, what bug is that?
<fta2> or should i just ignore?
<seb128> fta2: yes
<seb128> fta2: we want bugs about any crash issue
<smspillaz> seb128: something different, nevermind that
<fta2> ok
<smspillaz> seb128: seems like we are quitting ourselves, no idea why yet
<smspillaz> I think there is some stale restart signal we get
<fta2> seb128, seems my crash would be a dupe of bug 754225
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 754225 in bamf (Ubuntu) "bamfdaemon crashed with SIGABRT in dbus_g_connection_register_g_object()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/754225
<seb128> you are uptodate?
<fta2> i was when it happened (yesterday, late)
<fta2> happened after a reboot
<fta2> the main bug is 11h old, so it matches
<davidcalle> Is there any plan for featured applications in USC 11.04?
<seb128> fta2: no it's not, it's from wednesday and it was supposed to be fixed in the update yesterday
<seb128> fta2: did you restart your session after today updates?
<seb128> DBO: ^
<davidcalle> jcastro, IIRC you raised this topic during maverick beta on the ml. What's the plan for Natty?
<didrocks> pitti: do you have a minute to look at this FFe: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/754583
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 754583 in unity (Ubuntu) "Launcher - update launcher reveal interaction to make it more accessible to first time users" [Undecided,Triaged]
<DBO> seb128, yeah they would have to restard their session
<dobey> didrocks: thanks for the sponsoring :)
<didrocks> dobey: yw ;)
<smspillaz> vuntz: poke
<smspillaz> vuntz: is it possible for gnome-session to send us SIGINT or SIGTERM if we are a required component ?
<seb128> rodrigo_, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=604809
<ubot5> Gnome bug 604809 in Server "Assumes binding an IPv6 socket also binds IPv4" [Normal,New]
<seb128> rodrigo_, that's the bug corresponding to the patch for which you say is breaking vino for you
<pitti> re
<didrocks> hey pitti
<pitti> Sweetshark: odd, does macro security involve HTML or javascript in any way?
<seb128> pitti, wb
<pitti> chrisccoulson, Sweetshark: freeze for release? well, any structural changes should be uploaded around or after beta-2, as otherwise it'll get really tight
<seb128> pitti, I've assigned some bugs to you while reviewing python crash duplicates from the day
<pitti> TheMuso: eww, we pull in lintian by default now? that sounds quite heavy
<seb128> pitti, feel free to ignore those, they are things worth checking but probably not blockers
<pitti> didrocks: will look at the FFE
<pitti> seb128: ah, thanks; will check them out
<rodrigo_> seb128, ah, cool, just found the debian one
<rodrigo_> seb128, so, I was wondering if we could remove the patch, but I guess not, right?
<seb128> rodrigo_, well it works for other people and vino is not just simply broken for everybody or we would have noticed
<seb128> so I would like to figure why it breaks for you
<seb128> if you are in contact with upstream can you get them to review that patch?
<rodrigo_> seb128, not sure yet, still debugging
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, sure
<seb128> thanks
<TheMuso> pitti: Yes, even on x86
 * TheMuso heads to be.
<TheMuso> bed
<pitti> seb128: ah, nice picks; they should be easy to fix
<seb128> pitti, ;-)
<seb128> jibel: hi
<seb128> jibel: did you restart your session today? are you uptodate?
<seb128> jibel: the libreoffice-writer issue could be fixed with today updates, would be nice to make sure if you are uptodate to confirm it
<jibel> seb128, yes I did.
<seb128> jibel: so you are uptodate from today with session restarted and still get the bug?
<didrocks> seb128: we didn't change the gio directory, did we?
<didrocks> (if this is what you are reffering to)
<jibel> seb128, yes, I am as of 6:57 ago.
<seb128> didrocks, slangasek did
<seb128> jibelt: what bamfdaemon version do you have?
<didrocks> seb128: oh, scrolling in -changes didn't spot it, you're right
<jibel> seb128,   Installed: 0.2.84-0ubuntu2
<seb128> didrocks, he did the change I suggested you yesterday
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, nice, thanks :)
<seb128> jibel: grumpf, DBO ^
<seb128> DBO, libreoffice matching is still screwed it seems, we need that sorted for natty
<DBO> seb128, understood, did someone fix the module?
<seb128> the gio use is fixed for me, it matches back the correct desktop
<seb128> DBO: slangasek moved it back to the non multiarch location and I can confirm that fix the .desktop matching case in nautilus
<seb128> so I think libreoffice is another issue
<seb128> DBO: it matches the writer to javafilter
<seb128> DBO: but they have the same commands in their .desktop so it might be a special case
<seb128> DBO: bug #738931
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 738931 in unity (Ubuntu) "no icon for libroffice write" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/738931
<DBO> seb128, wtf, really?
<seb128> jibel: I can't confirm the bug there though, can you try in a guest session? how do you start it?
<ricotz> DBO, hi, is the name_changed signal use for libreoffice?
<DBO> indeed
<ricotz> ok, havent looked the a code, i just can confirm problems with libreoffice too, but we dont connect to the name_change signal though
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128
<seb128> chrisccoulson, so what happened to that default email client email? ;-)
<chrisccoulson> it's getting there ;)
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> ogra_, you you became civilized, that's nice ;-)
<jibel> seb128, I can reproduce the problem on 2 other systems. you need to install libreoffice-filter-mobiledev and restart the session
<jibel> I start lowriter from the command line btw
<seb128> jibel: oh, I don't have that binary installed, that would explain it, thanks
<seb128> jibel: does it happen if you start if from unity places?
<seb128> ogra_, joking but nice to see that you described the bugs fixed this time rather than just list a list of lp: #number
<jibel> seb128, yes it does.
<seb128> ok
<seb128> jibel: thanks
<ogra_> seb128, hehe, last time would simply have been to much
<Sweetshark> pitti: no, but it involves certificates needed for xmlsec
<seb128> ogra_, talk to didrocks, the unity changed are built by a script using the milestoned bugs set in fix commited ;-)
<seb128> ogra_, well maybe not today but at UDS pay him a beer ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: one beer by bug handled you meant, isn't it? :-)
<Sweetshark> pitti: but that is nss only. the other uses are either disabled of should do with firefox-dev instead of xulrunner-dev. So I will just do a "xulrunner-dev|firefox-dev" builddep and everything should be shiny.
<seb128> didrocks, hum, are you sure you will manage to walk back to the room? ;-)
<seb128> mterry, i've accepted your control-center email from moderation, just fyi in case if you pondered if you need to repost it or subscribe
<didrocks> seb128: I can share with my roomate then :-)
<seb128> hehe
<mterry> seb128, thanks
<pitti> seb128: ah, | firefox-dev sounds fine, or even just libnss3-dev ?
<pitti> sorry, Sweetshark ^
<pitti> chrisccoulson: nice, so it actually looks we'll getting rid of both \o/
<pitti> Sweetshark: firefox-dev should be a drop-in compatible now
<chrisccoulson> oh, that's excellent :)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: building gluezilla against firefox-dev is not possible?
<pitti> or will it just keep breaking with ffox updates?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - no, as it's still a new gecko version and it doesn't really solve the problem that dropping xulrunner from main solves
<pitti> ack
<chrisccoulson> yeah, it will likely break with upgrades
<pitti> I thought so, but wanted to check
<chrisccoulson> i want to limit what we build against firefox-dev. browser plugins are ok, and we also have 1 extension too
<chrisccoulson> but we shouldn't have any more than that :)
<rodrigo_> is anyone seeing e-addressbook/calendar-factory crashes often?
<seb128> rodrigo_, never crashed for me
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok, neither for me
<seb128> but I don't use ubuntuone for contacts
<seb128> hum, evo suckage again
<seb128> it just displayed me a meeting remind for the weekly rt meeting at "11:00"
<rodrigo_> seb128, but there are a lot of bugs in lp about threading crashes, so I need someone that sees the crashes often to run it under valgrind
<rodrigo_> seb128, it happens on google and local contacts also, it seems to be some bad usage of mutexes
<rodrigo_> I'm running it under valgrind now, let's hope I can find something, even if it doesn't crash
<seb128> seems it display the time from some other tz, the meeting is in 10 minutes and that's not 11:00
<seb128> rodrigo_, ok
<seb128> rodrigo_, well what I got from previous cycles and that some of those issues where due to gconf which is not safe to such use
<rodrigo_> seb128, what timezone is the meeting on?
<seb128> rodrigo_, dunno, I just got the reminder so it's in 10 minutes which is 17:00
<seb128> it should display 17:00
<rodrigo_> yes
<seb128> I guess it's 11:00 in the timezone from whoever set the appointement
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, but evolution should convert to your timezone, so it's a bug, unless you don't have a timezone set?
<seb128> rodrigo_, the preference has "use the system timezone france,paris" checked
<seb128> the calendar is a gcalendar one
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok then a bug, it seems
<seb128> the details of the meeting say it's a 10:00 chicago time
<rodrigo_> that's not 11:00 paris time :-)
<seb128> it's not ;-)
<seb128> not sure where it got the 11:00 from
<rodrigo_> unless you moved the country westwards :-)
<rodrigo_> yeah
<seb128> it's neither the chicago not the paris time
<seb128> could be a dst bug added to the other issue
<rodrigo_> hmm, maybe
<seb128> ok, let's see
<seb128> I just added a new meeting at 10:10 chicago time in that calendar
<seb128> right
<seb128> same bug
<Sweetshark> How fast would I get stoned for suggesting to depend the LO build on a full JDK instead of gjc?
<seb128> rodrigo_, do you want to peak at it and see if you can fix it?
<seb128> pitti, btw there is no gnome-appearance-capplet in GNOME3 that code is going away when next cycle open
<pitti> seb128: ah, thanks; makes it even harder to patch :)
<seb128> right, it would mean writting code to drop it in 2 weeks
<chrisccoulson> seb128, done ;)
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, sure, assign the bug to me, although I'm now looking at the e-d-s crashes, but I'll have a look as soon as I'm done with that
<seb128> chrisccoulson, thanks
<seb128> rodrigo_, thanks
<seb128> rodrigo_, did you see my comment about gconf earlier?
<seb128> rodrigo_, I think the #evolution guys mentioned something about gconf not being safe for use out of the main context
<seb128> but that was previous cycle
<seb128> it's the same issue that the keyring and gvfs
<seb128> or "similar" issue
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, saw it
<rodrigo_> seb128, the fix I did in evo-couchdb was for keyring to not crash the threads
<rodrigo_> seb128, but all these crashes are just in lots of places, not gconf or keyring or gvfs
<seb128> well if the lib it's not safe to use in that context it's weird that an init workaround the issue
<seb128> ok
<rodrigo_> so yeah, something's wrong
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, that _init call prepares dbus to deal with threads
<rodrigo_> not sure why it doesn't do it by default though
<seb128> oh ok
<rodrigo_> now 2.32 uses glib's dbus API, so it might have the same issue than dbus-glib had
<seb128> oh mcrha just commited a bunch of fixes to gnome-2-32
<rodrigo_> oh, /me looks
<seb128> do they plan a 2.32 tarball?
<rodrigo_> seb128, ah, those are the fixes from David's github branch
<rodrigo_> seb128, there's been a discussion about keeping the 2.32 brnahc open for distributions
<seb128> that would be nice
<rodrigo_> so yeah, with all those fixes, I guess a new 2.32.x tarball is coming
<seb128> though it's getting late for natty now, freeze is on monday next week
<rodrigo_> and the fixes that he just pushed are not that "important", from a 1st look
<seb128> didrocks, jibel got a case of non hidden launcher not using qt for you ;-)
<seb128> rodrigo_, right
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, I'm discussing with him, I don't reproduce
<didrocks> so I have to ask him to give all small dirity secret of Launcher state :)
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I think the key point in that default email client is whether online calendar matters or not
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, true. i thought i might miss something out ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, in a world where google give one for free and any smart phone allow you to use it very easily it seems an important usecase even out of office
<seb128> like kenvandine said he knows people who just use online calendar for day to day things
<kenvandine> my wife and all of her friends live off their google calendars
<kenvandine> all moms with kids to run around
<kenvandine> busy schedules :)
<sabdfl> pitti: hi, re the interface changes, we have a tough debate between "long term frustration" and "short term frustration"
<sabdfl> most people start looking for the launcher on the left edge
<sabdfl> it's frustrating to them that they have to get it from the corner, especially since we don't cue that well
<sabdfl> we have a visualisation, it was not done in time, but will be for oneiric
<pitti> because that corner is only actually 1x1 pixels big? :-)
<sabdfl> on the other hand
<sabdfl> no, the corner should be 5x5 iirc
<sabdfl> on the other hand
<sabdfl> the edge results in lots of false positives
<sabdfl> so people end up having the launcher show up when they don't really want it
<sabdfl> which, in the long term, is more frustrating
<sabdfl> and in the long term (days) the muscle memory of corner activation is just as good
<pitti> full ack; I don't think it should ever be on the edge
<sabdfl> so, corner activation is better long term
<pitti> it'll interact badly with working with window edges for resizing, or for tiling them, etc.
<sabdfl> pitti: i agree, but it's the most visible wtf? in unity atm
<pitti> and there's always the windows key
<sabdfl> exactly
<sabdfl> also exactly :-)
<sabdfl> so, if we give people an easier day 1, they spend a lot more time frustrated
<sabdfl> if we don't, they blog about it on day 1 :-)
<pitti> TBH, I still think the most visible WTF is "why do I only see half of it when I point to the ubuntu logo", but that's a battle I won't win, I guess :
<sabdfl> that's another false positive story
<sabdfl> i think we'll settle on a combination of corner + hover-on-bfb
<sabdfl> i.e. rapid move through corner will do it immediately
<sabdfl> or you can explore and if you get as far as the bfb, it starts coming out
<pitti> so how do we make it discoverable that you can change the behaviour in a four-levels down appearance applet (which never had panel properties before, and isn't supposed to either)?
<sabdfl> the idea is to give them the day 1 behaviour they expect, then let them take the rough edge off later
<sabdfl> but it's not a totally solid idea, this is not properly tested, and imo it's ok to ship what we have
<sabdfl> we're busy wrapping up the formal user testing, i'll have a better sense of whether this is a showstopper when Charline's written that up
<sabdfl> next week :/
<pitti> sabdfl: well, beta-2 archive freeze is Monday 0900, we won't get in the gnome-appearance-applets change written, tested, and uploadd anyway by then
<sabdfl> ok, let's pass for natty
<sabdfl> in a pinch, SRU
<pitti> so a few days back and forth would not matter much, and tarnslations for this will be broken anyway
<pitti> sabdfl: and at start of oneiric gnome-appearance-properties will be history, too
<pitti> we don't have the equivalent of a pointing bubble any more, do we?
<pitti> such as ^--- move mouse here or press Windows key to open Launcher
<seb128> sabdfl, we can't sru new UI since that means they will land non translated
<sabdfl> seb128: ok
<pitti> seb128: they'll not get translations in time either way
<njpatel> I will buy many beers, can we push freeze time to 11:00 UTC or something?
<njpatel> on Monday
<pitti> njpatel: perhaps join #ubuntu-meeting, it'll be the desktop turn soon
<seb128> njpatel, pitti said he would raise it during the meeting for unity upload target
<pitti> (i have it in my blurb, too)
<pitti> I think it really ought to be possible
<njpatel> pitti, ah, thanks
<chrisccoulson> njpatel, are you trying to bribe pitti? ;)
<njpatel> okay, fingers-crossed
<pitti> now
<njpatel> chrisccoulson, always
<njpatel> Anyone on the release team, there are always beers available for favours that move the freeze time to later. It's just how DX rolls :)
<sabdfl> njpatel: we are flying blind here. we're guessing that the edge thing won't cause more problems, and we're guessing people will find the alternative
<seb128> pitti, what about cairo and gl? should you mention it during the meeting?
<pitti> ah, right
<pitti> seb128: do you think we could upload the non-EGL version today still?
<njpatel> sabdfl, sure, in my mind that has dropped. I'm asking for time so we have a chance of releasing monday morning/sunday evening
<njpatel> (for normal stuff)
<seb128> pitti, yes, it will just break wayland so I was waiting for a decision to be taken
<sabdfl> what has dropped?
<njpatel> sabdfl, the two requests from this morning, launcher & menu
<seb128> sabdfl, speaking about discovrability I see users arguing over the menus one over the launcher one
<didrocks> pitti: I should maybe join #ubuntu-meeting then has I'm impacted by the unity release :)
<pitti> hang on, I almost got it :)
<njpatel> sabdfl, I'm currently negotiating the standard "can we please have more time?" DX<->Release Team thing
<sabdfl> okdokey :-)
<pitti> njpatel, didrocks, seb128: ok, unity got a free pass until 1300 UTC
<njpatel> WOOHOO!
<njpatel> thanks!
<njpatel> this is going to be an interesting weekend
<pitti> all just coordination, don't worry
<didrocks> thanks pitti :)
<pitti> seb128: mentioned it in release meeting; I think we need to go ahead; do you know what needs to happen with the package?
<pitti> seb128: it seems https://launchpad.net/~xorg-edgers/+archive/wayland/ even has the cairo still, but I guess it needs to be updated to be newer than the natty version
<seb128> pitti, I can upload that now
<pitti> seb128: please do; I'll take the bullets
<seb128> pitti, should I break on wayland from the updated version?
<pitti> better than on Monday
<pitti> seb128: I think that makes sense
<seb128> ok, doing that
<pitti> cheers
<pitti> bryceh_: ^ really sorry about this, but I'm afraid we're running out of options here :/
<pitti> (and time)
<vuntz> smspillaz: why/when would you need sigint/sigterm?
<pitti> bryceh_: want us to provide an updated cairo upload for the PPA? (basically current natty with a newer version number)
<smspillaz> vuntz: ah, I was wondering because it looked like we were getting that signal and I was wondering if gnome-session was doing it
<smspillaz> but we aren't
<smspillaz> I figured out what the problem was
<smspillaz> thanks for the response though :)
 * pitti hugs njpatel
 * njpatel hugs pitti, gets ready money for beer
<pitti> the man who fixes bugs faster than we can even apport them
<didrocks> vuntz: already back home?
<njpatel> pitti, heh :)
<pitti> njpatel: nah, you already paid in bug fixes!
<njpatel> Ah, bug fixes as a currency, I like
<vuntz> didrocks: yes, just now
<jbicha> I have a collection of gnome3 ppa bugs, would it be better to send them in 1 email or all separately?
<seb128> jbicha, where do you want to send those?
<seb128> one email seems better
<jbicha> to the gnome3-team mailing list
<seb128> jbicha, ok, one email will do then
<jbicha> cool, email sent
<pitti> TTFN, have a nice weekend everyone!
<njpatel> didrocks, seb128, pitti, because I hate myself: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/754583
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 754583 in unity "UIFe: Launcher - update launcher reveal interaction to make it more accessible to first time users" [Undecided,Triaged]
<njpatel> what about a small capplet for gnome-control-centre?
<seb128> pitti, enjoy!
<njpatel> Seven new strings only, one time offer!!!!!!!one
<seb128> njpatel, what about stopping wasting time adding a fix me option and pick a behaviour and focus on fixing bugs?
<njpatel> seb128, Don't shoot the messenger dude :)
<seb128> njpatel, well tell whoever is pushing on it to come argue directly ;-)
<njpatel> Aww, but they are counting on you all loving me
<njpatel> :)
<seb128> ;-)
<ricotz> seb128, hi
<ricotz> are you ok with https://edge.launchpad.net/~ricotz/+archive/testing/+sourcepub/1636891/+listing-archive-extra ?
<seb128> re
<seb128> ricotz, why do we need the new gdm?
<seb128> doesn't seem right to push the update if it's not ready, like half of the patch commented
<ricotz> to actually have a gnome3 themed one ;)
<ricotz> the gdmsetup patch depends on gtk2 and other patches rely on it
<seb128> why can't you port it to gtk3?
<ricotz> actually i dont have the time to look into that big one
<ricotz> but this gdm will finally give a better user-experience while it is not broken-gtk2-themed
<ricotz> but  of course there is no rush
<seb128> ricotz, hum ok, well upload if you want but the ppa quality is lower with updates it seems but since we don't recommend users to run it...
<seb128> like dropping the patch to respect the system uids to display or the locale and keyboard handling fixes
<ricotz> seb128, i will keep it in my ppa for now
<seb128> ok
<seb128> maybe commit to the gnome3 vcs as work in progress
<ricotz> but it is actually kind of crazy to have 31 patches :(
<seb128> send an email to the list to invite others to continue the patches update
<seb128> well, that's not specific to Ubuntu
<seb128> Debian and OpenSuse have a stack of patches for gdm as well
<seb128> that's a known issue
<ricotz> hmm, i see
<fta> didrocks, please keep bug 728428 open, it's definitely not fixed
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 728428 in compiz-plugins-main (Ubuntu) "unity messes up with workspaces" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/728428
<didrocks> smspillaz: ^^
<didrocks> fta: you can reopen it
<smspillaz> didrocks: I haven't got time to fix this one
<didrocks> it was listed as the fix on plugin-main though
<didrocks> probably by error then
<fta> which task should i re-open? all?
<fta> doh, compiz crashed
<fta> "not enough memory to report it", wfh? I have 4GB
<didrocks> fta: no, it's ok, plugins-main is opened
<fta> when compiz restarts after a crash; my workspaces are also re-arranged, but it's not a rotation
<bryceh_> seb128, instead of dumping bugs like 753910 to X that haven't really any useful data, instead tell them to file a *new* bug about the specific issue against xorg.  These rambling multi-problem bug reports are of no use to us like this.
<ryanpg> anyone know if the gnome3 team PPA has a roadmap? I'd like to try out gnome3 on 11.04, obviously it's very experimental, I'd like to know when it becomes installable if possible.
<JanC> fta: the bug you describe when scrolling through workspaces existed in compiz before natty too
<nessita> hello everyone, is there any available for a sponsorship? https://code.launchpad.net/~nataliabidart/ubuntu/natty/ubuntuone-control-panel/ubuntuone-control-panel-0.9.5/+merge/56995
<fta> JanC, maybe, but i don't know, i was using metacity before
<JanC> fta: I added a comment to the bug report, just in case it's useful for the compiz developers  âº
<JanC> it also means this is not a unity bug but a compiz bug
<fta> thanks :)
<jbicha> ryanpg: the gnome3 PPA is mostly installable now but not recommended if you like your system to be free of breakage
<jbicha> ryanpg: for instance, I would hold back from upgrading gnome-session
<ryanpg> I did try to install from it... and gnome session was one of the troublesome packages
<ryanpg> gnome3-session was un-installable along with gtk3-engines and others
<jbicha> gnome3-session is obsolete
<ryanpg> jbicha, ahh... cool
<jbicha> but don't upgrade gnome-session or you'll probably have trouble logging into Unity
<ryanpg> jbicha, do you know if the plan is to have a stable and installable PPA eventually? or is it always intended to be experimental?
<jbicha> I can't speak for the Desktop Team but I believe the plan is for the Gnome 3 PPA to be stable by 11.04 release
<jbicha> obviously there will be lots of integration issues which is why Gnome 3 isn't part of 11.04
<ryanpg> yes, I guess there still is three weeks till release
<ryanpg> jbicha, do you know of a way to install a minimal gnome3 from the ppa, while holding back troublesome packages? I mean, other than manually selecting package versions and choosing which packages are upgraded...
<ryanpg> adding the ppa and doing a dist-upgrade is sure to result in disaster
<jbicha> I wouldn't say disaster as you could always use ppa-purge to get things back to normal
<jbicha> gnome-shell is the major package you're looking for but except for gnome-session I have everything else there upgraded all the way
<jbicha> well, and gnome-accessibility-themes is broken too but that's not too important
<ryanpg> jbicha, have you tried out any of the gnome 3 live images? If so how do they compare to the PPA "experience?"
<jbicha> ryanpg: no I haven't got around to trying pure gnome3 yet, it's difficult to compare Ubuntu Gnome 3 with pure Gnome as Ubuntu has different design & integration goals
<ryanpg> jbicha, sure... those differences are a part of the comparison I'd like to make, so far I've not been able to get to see any part of gnome3 on my 11.04 install
<ryanpg> I'm going to guess that working subpixel hinting is going to be one of those "design and integration goals" :D
<ryanpg> MacSlow, hi there... I remember you from waaaaay back in the early days of hanging around the  clearlooks channels! :D
<ryanpg> MacSlow, I always expect to see you show up on one of G4s parkour shows, or American Ninja. lol :)
<MacSlow> ryanpg, oh... that is really "waaaaaaay back" :)
<MacSlow> ryanpg, no I ended up at Canonical :)
<ryanpg> MacSlow, hah! Well I've seen your name scroll across my screen a few times since then - you've really become a big player!
 * ryanpg doesn't intend to embarrass 
 * MacSlow tries not to be
<MacSlow> :)
<ryanpg> MacSlow, do you ever talk to Remenic? He seems to have disappeared.
<MacSlow> ryanpg, no... never met  him in person
<ryanpg> me either... just on #clearlooks, anyway...
<seb128> bryceh_, hey, yeah sorry the issue is that I'm not sure what questions should be asked on xorg bugs or what infos are needed
<seb128> nessita, ola
<nessita> seb128: hola! ca va?
<seb128> nessita, ca va bien, et toi ?
<nessita> trÃ©s bien!
<seb128> nessita, I'm about to call it a day (week if nothing come during the weekend that needs to land before monday freeze)
<seb128> nessita, do you still need sponsoring?
<seb128> nessita, I can do that before calling it a day
<nessita> seb128: yes, I do, please!
<nessita> seb128: so, you said something that has scared me: *monday freeze*? I was hoping the repos were freezed wed
<seb128> nessita, no, monday at 9utc
<seb128> nessita, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyReleaseSchedule
<nessita> seb128: OMG
<nessita> seb128: final freeze is April 14th
<nessita> seb128: why do you scare me? :-)
<seb128> nessita, because I've been at the r-t meeting today and they argued over the unity upload on monday
<seb128> nessita, monday to wednesday is for selected fixes for issues that are considered blockers for the images
<seb128> nessita, you should count on it to land fixes you want if they disagree on those being blockers
<nessita> seb128: so, sorry but I'm not understanding properly (is Friday and I've been sprinting all week :-)): we will have a chance to upload next week or we have 0 chance to upload?
<nessita> pitti: maybe, you around?
<seb128> nessita, he's not around
<seb128> nessita, it's free uploads until monday 9utc
<fta> tjaalton, yt?
<seb128> nessita, it's upload that need to get reviewed and paid in beers after that
<nessita> seb128: so, before hearing about the freeze ocurring at mon, I was counting with having more time to land bug #702176, which depending how you look at it may or may not require a UI FE. Can you tell me if that require a UI FE?
<seb128> nessita, but they plan to roll the candidate images on tuesday so you need a strong reason to get things in an new images after that
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 702176 in ubuntuone-control-panel (Ubuntu Natty) "[UIFE] Syncdaemon needs to open the control-panel to volumes when a folder shared to the user exceeds the owning user's quota" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/702176
<nessita> seb128: I sadly understand
<dobey> i wonder if we will even be able to get sponsorship for uploads
<dobey> this late in the week
<fta> tjaalton, i have a new problem with X. started a few days ago (2, maybe 3). when I put mplayer in fullscreen mode, X goes bersek, with evdev_drv.so in the stack. desktop is all stuck. then compiz goes 100% cpu too
<seb128> nessita, that one is not likely to get in after monday, it's not even likely to get it on monday, it's late for ui changes
<seb128> dobey, when?
<seb128> dobey, I'm still around and can do a round of sponsoring now
<seb128> kees is patch pilot today also and U.S based
<nessita> seb128: I see. Well, thanks a lot the same :-)
<seb128> nessita, ;-)
<dobey> seb128: well i need to do a banshee upload. was hoping to do it on tuesday, but i guess i have to do it today
<seb128> dobey, check is skaet but yeah better today if you can
<seb128> nessita, what sponsoring did you need btw?
<nessita> seb128: https://code.launchpad.net/~nataliabidart/ubuntu/natty/ubuntuone-control-panel/ubuntuone-control-panel-0.9.5/+merge/56995
<seb128> nessita, you got it
<nessita> seb128: thanks!
<dobey> seb128: yeah, i'm pulling banshee branch right now and will push the upload
<seb128> nessita, you're welcome
<mterry> tedg, still here?  what exactly happens when a process uses both dbus-glib and gdbus?  Is it only bad if they use it for the same end point?
<seb128> nessita, what source do you need to update for the uif issue?
<seb128> mterry, what are you hacking on? ;-)
<tedg> mterry, Yeah, you'll just have two connections to dbus.  So you can't send messages on one and expect to receive on the other really.
<mterry> seb128, this quassel crash
<seb128> oh
<tedg> mterry, The problem that we had is that we'd pull the address of the message for many things, and we wouldn't get the right address.
<mterry> tedg, crashes?
<nessita> seb128: control panel as well, but I didn't add it to the release because I was waiting for the exception granting
<tedg> mterry, Shouldn't in theory.  I haven't tested it though :-)
<mterry> tedg, apps that use dbusmenu-glib and interact with the messaging app but use dbus-glib elsewhere wouldn't have problems, one assumes, right?
<mterry> s/messaging app/messaging menu/
<seb128> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-weather/+bug/743541
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 743541 in indicator-weather (Ubuntu) "indicator-weather crashed with SIGSEGV in dbusmenu_menuitem_build_variant()" [Medium,Confirmed]
<seb128> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-weather/+bug/742824
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 742824 in indicator-weather (Ubuntu) "indicator-weather crashed with SIGSEGV in dbusmenu_menuitem_get_id()" [Medium,Confirmed]
<tedg> mterry, One assumes.  I don't know of anything that'd be an issue there.
<seb128> those have just been added to libdbusmenu if someone want to check on whether they are bug there
<mterry> tedg, is there any reason /usr/lib/indicator-application/indicator-application-service would be linking with dbus-glib?
<mterry> oh, because it does....  I thought we cleaned all that out
<tedg> mterry, Yes we didn't get all of it sadly.
<dobey> hyperair: ping
<hyperair> dobey: pong
<tedg> seb128, https://code.launchpad.net/~ted/ubuntu/natty/nautilus/lp750788/+merge/57005
<dobey> hyperair: is banshee 2.0 going into 11.04 or are we sticking with 1.9.6?
<bryceh_> seb128, as a general rule we always want the stuff that the xorg apport hook includes.
<bryceh_> that answers like 80% of the questions.
<seb128> tedg, does that mean those are broken installs? how come it doesn't find the ui description?
<tedg> seb128, I think they must be.  But, we shouldn't crash...
<seb128> bryceh_, ok, so basic rules is to invalid those asking to open a new bug rather than to reassign?
<tedg> seb128, Only thing they'd loose is the help and changing the desktop background though.
<seb128> bryceh_, i.e ubuntu-bug xorg-server?
<seb128> tedg, ok, I don't care about those ;-)
<tedg> seb128, So I'm not *too* worried about solving the install issue.  I think it might be an upgrade one as well?
<bryceh_> seb128, right
<seb128> bryceh_, xserver-xorg rather I meant, ok ;-)
<seb128> bryceh_,I will do that from now on!
<bryceh_> used to be unity's apport hook included the same stuff as xorg, but it doesn't any more, so easiest if people file new bugs
<bryceh_> seb128, actually just 'ubuntu-bug xorg' is enough
<seb128> ok
<bryceh_> the scripts will automatically take care of shuffling the bug report to the right spot and so on
<seb128> bryceh_, I guess they can just do "ubuntu-bug" and pick xorg and follow the questions?
<bryceh_> seb128, that works too
<bryceh_> (in fact that might even be better)
<seb128> doh, the "don't know" exit you from apport, not very useful friendly ;-)
<dobey> i guess we are not getting banshee 2.0 then
<Laney> why not?
<mterry> tedg, ooh, may have a good crash fix
<tedg> mterry, Woot!
<tedg> mterry, I think that kenvandine had started to think about his weekend, let's not let him do that!  ;-)
<kenvandine> :)
<dobey> Laney: i don't see any merges for it, and it's not in debian yet either
<Laney> it was uploaded today
<Laney> http://packages.qa.debian.org/b/banshee/news/20110408T144725Z.html
<mterry> heh
<bryceh_> seb128, the one exception I can think of to this is if the bug is about a crash of _unity_, where the backtrace indicates a fault in mesa or driver code; obviously we want the backtrace from the original bug, not a new bug in that case.
<bryceh_> seb128, although having looked at a few such bugs so far, sometimes it's not really clear whether the issue is X, or unity/compiz passing in bad data that crashes X.
<bryceh_> er, crashes unity I mean
<mterry> tedg, kenvandine: https://code.launchpad.net/~mterry/indicator-application/dont-wildly-free-apps/+merge/57012
<seb128> bryceh_, right, for crashers with a debug stacktrace I would close those
<tedg> mterry, Cool.  I have a bug on the fact that application needs to be made a real object... it's always going to have these problems until it does :-(
<dobey> Laney: ah. i didn't see that when i searched
<Laney> just merging it now
<mterry> tedg, yar
<tedg> seb128, Seems both of those dbusmenu ones need valgrind :-(
<seb128> tedg, ok, that's fine, I was pointing them in case
<seb128> kenvandine, you probably want to get the fix mterry just pointed in natty and maybe the one he mentioned earlier
<tedg> Heh, I was just about to say that!
<kenvandine> tedg, i was going to ask... distro patch?
<tedg> kenvandine, Listen to seb128! ;-)
<kenvandine> i always listen to seb128
<kenvandine> :-D
<tedg> kenvandine, Definitely for the indicator-application one.
<tedg> kenvandine, The dbusmenu one is bigger, I can release it if you want.
<kenvandine> tedg, i can distro patch
<kenvandine> lp:~mterry/dbusmenu/sudo-make-me-an-activation-sandwich	
<kenvandine> that one?
<tedg> kenvandine, Then grab this one as well: https://code.launchpad.net/~ted/dbusmenu/lp746091/+merge/56850
<mterry> kenvandine, https://code.launchpad.net/~mterry/indicator-application/dont-wildly-free-apps/+merge/57012 too
<tedg> mterry, Could you review to double check ^
<mterry> k
<kenvandine> tedg, you've got two branches for dbusmenu? maybe you should do a release then
<kenvandine> and i'll distro patch indicator-application while you prepare that
<tedg> kenvandine, K
<dobey> kenvandine: can you sponsor a branch real quick for me? :)
<kenvandine> everyone beats on me at eod?
<kenvandine> :-D
<kenvandine> dobey, is it banshee?
<dobey> kenvandine: yes
<kenvandine> seb128, do you have time to do it? i know it is late... if not i'll try to pick it up in a couple hours
<seb128> kenvandine, just bounce to kees on #ubuntu-devel he's patch pilot
<kenvandine> dobey, ^^
<dobey> ok
<kenvandine> thx :)
<seb128> it's almost 11pm here, I'm over my work hours and about to go ;-)
<kenvandine> dobey, let me know if there are problems, i am sure i'll be around tonight
<kenvandine> seb128, indeed :)
<dobey> kenvandine: ok, thanks
<mterry> tedg, one thing
<dobey> seb128: good night
<kenvandine> i'll be needing to leave soon
<kenvandine> but will be back
<mterry> tedg, in new_item_normal(), you probably don't want to unref the gmi if you're sinking too
<mterry> tedg, do you know that no other callers of dbusmenu_gtkclient_newitem_base do the same?
<seb128> ok, enough for today, have fun everybody, see you next week
<kenvandine> good night se
<kenvandine> +b128
<kenvandine> :)
<tedg> mterry, I'll look at that, here's one back at you :-)
<tedg> mterry, Do you think we need to check to see if the menu is visible before sending the close in stop_activating?
<tedg> mterry, Just incase the menu didn't close with the activation.
<mterry> tedg, hmm, that can happen?
<tedg> mterry, Like the date/time with the calendar.
<tedg> mterry, Seems it only would happen with custom menu items.
<mterry> hmm
<mterry> tedg, maybe we need a "tried to close" flag on the item and only send the delayed close if that flag has been set.  else let normal notify::visible handler handle it
<tedg> mterry, Makes sense.
<mterry> tedg, that branch can safely be delayed until post beta2 I think.  It's a little tricky and doesn't fix a crasher or anything
 * mterry looks when beta2 is
<mterry> ah, monday is freeze.  That's why you guys are so intent.  ;)
<dobey> mterry: yes
 * mterry lives in a bubble
<dobey> mterry: i thought i had until tuesday evening, but alas :)
<tedg> mterry, I don't see any reason to have the unref in new_item_normal.  I think I must have assumed there was a latent ref instead of that being initially unowned.
<mterry> tedg, if this branch doesn't make it for monday, when is next opportunity?
<tedg> Not sure.  kenvandine ^
<kenvandine> after beta2 release at the soonest
<kenvandine> indicator-application uploaded
<mterry> that's fine.  just as long as there's a window after beta2 where normal releases can be made
<kenvandine> it will be strict
<mterry> tedg, let's wait on this branch while I think about the new flow with that flag
<mterry> hm
<kenvandine> but no worse than an SRU :)
<kenvandine> i think every upload will need to get approved
<seb128> kenvandine, not sure there is an upload frame between beta2 and naty
<seb128> natty
<mterry> kenvandine, guh, let's just put the indicator stack in universe.  Then we have until the 24th!
<kenvandine> hehe
<seb128> kenvandine, but yeah, ubuntu without a round of sru to fix dx bugs wouldn't be right ;-)
<kenvandine> worse case we do an sru...
<mterry> kenvandine, tedg: OK, I will make further changes on this sandwich branch tonight, and if you guys are feeling frisky this weekend, it can go in?
<mterry> i assume you're both signing off now
<kenvandine> anyway... i gotta run, kid activities...
<tjaalton> fta: that sounds like a gpu hang to me. which hw?
<mterry> kenvandine, see ya!
<kenvandine> mterry, i'll be around tonight
<tedg> I'm not quite yet, but sure.  I'll release it this weekend.
<seb128> kenvandine, have fun
<fta> tjaalton, nvidia
<kenvandine> tedg, propose the dbusmenu branch and i'll look for it tonight
<fta> tjaalton, happened twice in the last two days
<seb128> mterry, if you have something to queue for upload just subscribe ubuntu-sponsors so europeans can upload it on monday morning
<kenvandine> tedg, and feel free to ping me on IM if i don't respond on irc
<tjaalton> fta: too bad then ;
<tjaalton> )
<mterry> seb128, k
 * kenvandine runs... bbiab
<fta> tjaalton, new regression
<tjaalton> fta: since when?
<fta> tjaalton, 2 days :)
<tjaalton> fta: something else than x then
<tjaalton> causing it
<fta> there's not much in the log: http://paste.ubuntu.com/591464/
<tjaalton> yep, the gpu is hung
<fta> but the nvidia blob didn't change recently
<fta> compiz did though
<fta> could it be compiz 3D competing with mplayer vdpau?
<bryceh_> fta, dmesg?
<fta> i had to reboot since. but nothing relevant in /var/log/dmesg.0
<tjaalton> try without compiz
<fta> the thing is, it worked the second time
<bryceh_> gpu hangs can often be intermittent
<fta> both times it failed, a retry worked
<fta> well no, the first time, once it killed mplayer, the display remained corrupted, blinking tiny squares everywhere
<fta> -it+I
<fta> the 2nd time, i was able to kill mplayer and compiz (twice) to get back to a normal situation
<fta> weird
<fta> killing mplayer alone was not enough to free X. killing compiz did it
<fta> next time it happens, what info should i capture?
<bryceh_> well, first caveat that with nvidia there's likely not much we can do on the X end
<bryceh_> fta, after reproducing the problem ssh into the box and file a bug via 'ubuntu-bug xorg'.  And take a photo of the screen showing the corruption.
<bryceh_> fta, the bug report will need to be filed with NVIDIA at their bug forum, so that would be the next action after that
<bryceh_> fta, http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=46678 is upstream place to send nvidia bugs
<bryceh_> fta, but like tjaalton if you can isolate it to only occur with compiz, then maybe the compiz guys have some insights and/or know of ways to work around it on their end.
<tjaalton> or unity
<tjaalton> well, same guys i guess :)
<bryceh_> fta, also would probably make sense to write down exactly what steps you take to reproduce it (including what video drivers mplayer is using, whether it's full screen, etc. etc.)
<mterry> kenvandine, tedg: just to cover all my bases, branch updated (though I sent an email about it too)
<fta> bryceh_, here the steps are easy, i clicked on a big mkv file, got mplayer playing fine, hit f for fullscreen and boom. i didn't get the full screen, video froze, the sound went in loop (same 2 secs over and over again) and whole desktop froze (no mouse, no keyboard)
<tjaalton> fta: is this with unity? if so, try classic
<fta> bryceh_, i sshed from my android tablet, saw X at 100%, killed mplayer, no change, killed compiz once, no change, twice, X recovered
<fta> yes, with unity
<bryceh_> aha
<tjaalton> ok so it's compiz/unity doing it
<tjaalton> er, triggering it
<bryceh_> yep
<bryceh_> fta, to translate... X at 100% cpu almost always means "some client process is stuck in a loop making X calls".  Standard practice for debugging is to kill procs until it stops; whatever that proc was is where the bug is
<tjaalton> yeah, and the backtrace on the logfile means input is not getting through
<fta> bryceh_, that's basically what i did ;)
<fta> most likely culprits where mplayer (i use vdpau), compiz and chromium
<fta> where
<fta> grr, were
<fta> tjaalton, i guess i should file a bug against compiz then, but they probably won't be able to reproduce :P
<tjaalton> fta: why not? nvidia is quite popular..
<tjaalton> for good and bad
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-04-09
<SpamapS> I seem to have lost my network indicator lately..
<SpamapS> anybody have any ideas where it might have gone?
<SpamapS> cd /etc
<SpamapS> cd xdg
<SpamapS> dodohhhh
<SpamapS> ** Message: applet now removed from the notification area
<hallyn_afk> SpamapS: xdg, interesting
<SpamapS> hallyn_afk: Trying to figure out if some config file I refused to accept during upgrade was the culprit
<hallyn_afk> probably.  just had to be difficult, didn't you?  :)
<hallyn_afk> have you tried turning it off and on?
<SpamapS> "is it plugged in, is it turned on"
<SpamapS> :)
<SpamapS> the cardinal questions of desktop support
 * hallyn_afk misses the it crowd
<SpamapS> super confusing.. I feel like my natty experience took 20 steps backwards in the last 3 days
<SpamapS> compiz has been crashing hourly.. no more network manager applet.. browser isn't opening reliably.
<Sarvatt> SpamapS: i've had the same experience and was wondering if it was just me :)
<xclaesse> hello, is there a way to have normal scrollbars back into natty? is that configurable somehow?
<kklimonda> xclaesse: it is
<kklimonda> xclaesse: if you set LIBOVERLAY_SCROLLBAR=0 they get disabled.
<kklimonda> so you can set it in one of /etc/X11/Xsession.d/ files
<htorque> xclaesse, or if you just want to disable it for a user, add it to ~/.xprofile
<xclaesse> kklimonda,  htorque: thx
<JanC> *grmpf*, compiz is using 2-3 GiB RAM after 24h here?
<bcurtiswx> JanC, 31% (1GB+ here)
<JanC> that's crazy too  :P
<JanC> imagine being on a netbook...
<bcurtiswx> JanC, can't disagree
<kklimonda> JanC: meh 3GiB after 24 hours isn't bad
<kklimonda> ;)
<kklimonda> (at some point my compiz was using over 3GiB memory after 20 minutes or so)
<JanC> well, 24h is only a guess since the last compiz crash (which isn't bad either ;) ), but it's certainly been more than 20 minutes
<kklimonda> bah, shift+alt+tab doesn't work in gnome3 :/
<kklimonda> huh, the bug is.. weird..
<kklimonda> I wonder what's happening..
<kklimonda> ricotz: hey, in gtkmm3.0 packaging, why did you bump the soname for libgtkmm-3.0-2 package ?
<kklimonda> has the ABI been broken, and they didn't bump soname themselves?
<kklimonda> (well, it wouldn't matter anyway as we haven't yet shipped any gtkmm3.0 package, but I'm curious)
<ricotz> kklimonda, you are right this bump is wrong, i pushed the wrong version
<ricotz> locally i have a build with -1 installed
<kklimonda> ricotz: I'm going to push gtkmm3.0 into pkg-gnome repository in a minute, and then try to find some sponsors for it.
<ricotz> kklimonda, great :)
<kklimonda> ricotz: are you interested in maintaining the package, or should I put myself in the Maintainer field?
<kklimonda> ricotz: being a maintainer means mostly more spam getting into your inbox (bug mails etc.)
<ricotz> kklimonda, it should be done like the other *mm packages
<ricotz> kklimonda, probably something like "Debian Maintainers"
<kklimonda> ricotz: all mm packages do have a single maintainer, and multiple uploaders. I don't mind setting my email there, but maybe you are interested in working with pkg-gnome yourself - it would probably require you to ask for the access to svn repository, and another channel to your irc list. :)
<kklimonda> ah, you are already there.
<ricotz> kklimonda, indeed
<ricotz> i already have access
<kklimonda> even better.
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-04-10
<hyperair> does anyone know what's the difference between gir1.0 and gir1.2 packages?
<hyperair> it seems all the natty things are named gir1.2, and all the maverick things are named gir1.0
<hyperair> e.g. is there something special to be done while backporting libu1, or can i just sed -i -e s/gir1.2/gir1.0/?
<geser> hyperair: IIRC only the ABI changed
<geser> hyperair: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2010-December/032293.html for gir1.0 â gir1.2, undoing it should work
<hyperair> geser: ah, okay, thanks.
<hyperair> geser: do you know if it's safe to backport glib to maverick and prior ubuntus?
<geser> sorry, no idea
<hyperair> ah, nevermind then, thanks anywya.
<kklimonda> hyperair: I've backported 2.28.2 to lucid, and it worked fine
<hyperair> kklimonda: ooh, that works?
<hyperair> okay, let's try this then
<kklimonda> hyperair: bah, wait
<kklimonda> I think I've actually done more than just backporting it
<kklimonda> (I've just checked the changelog)
<hyperair> kklimonda: hm?
<hyperair> kklimonda: hmm, do you have the package in some ppa i can copy from?
<kklimonda> sure, https://launchpad.net/~kklimonda/+archive/evo232/+packages
<kklimonda> what I actually did was to copy debian directory from lucid, update it with patches from natty, and release the resulting package.
<hyperair> that sounds dirty
<hyperair> but i guess it works
<hyperair> were there any issues?
<kklimonda> none that I recall, Gtk+ devs put a lot of work to keep ABI stable in both ways.
<hyperair> nice.
<ayan> in natty, how do i specify which parameters are passed to programs started from the unity launcher?
<ayan> in particular, i'd like to start chrome in incognito mode.
<gord> ayan, you would have to modify your chrome .desktop file to pass the parameter
 * pitti waves
 * ayan waves.
<dupondje> somebody here on Gnome 3 ?
 * Tommeh is at work
<Tommeh> But I'm not at work, right now
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-04-02
<jasoncwarner_> morning AU/NZ folks
<TheMuso> Morning.
<RAOF> Aha!  *That's* why nothing was showing up :)
<RAOF> Mornin' all.
<desrt> good "morning"
<pikkachu> hi, what do you do when you need to change a patch between package versions?
<pikkachu> I just overwrote the patch in debian/patches, instead of adding a new patch so that quilt pop can be applied to revert the package to the same state as previous version
<pikkachu> I also felt the need to change the patch names, and so I did
<pitti> Good morning
<RAOF> What, it's pitti-morning already?  Damn you, daylight saving!
<pitti> I actually got up comparatively late :)
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> bonjour didrocks
<didrocks> guten morgen pitti, how are you?
<pitti> didrocks: quite fine, thanks! we had a quiet wekend; how are you?
<didrocks> pitti: quiet week-end here as well. Everything's well :)
<pikkachu> hi all
<pikkachu> what do you do when a patch needs to be changed between package versions?
<micahg> pikkachu: perhaps if you rephrase the question, you've asked this several times over the weekend and I"m not sure what you mean
<pikkachu> micahg: can't you imagine yourself changing a patch?
<pikkachu> micahg: imagine you maintain a local patch
<pikkachu> micahg: for whatever reasons, you want to change the patch
<micahg> pikkachu: the simple answer to your question is change it, but I"m guessing you're asking more
<pikkachu> micahg: just like you change a branch, that simple
<pikkachu> micahg: I'm simply changing the patch as needed, yes, just like we do with branches
<micahg> and unless this is a desktop package maintained in the desktop team branches, this is OT for this channel, #ubuntu-packaging would be better
<pikkachu> micahg: I was just confused if that's the usual way to go
<pikkachu> micahg: for example, 01_fix_bug_xyz.patch, then you work to improve the patch and you just replace the file instead of adding 02_improvements_to_bug_xyz_fix.patch
<micahg> pikkachu: let's move to #ubuntu-packaging unless you're working on a desktop branch for archive upload
<pikkachu> despite in the latter case being possible to revert to prior states with quilt pop
<pikkachu> ah sorry
<didrocks> pitti: did you try the new compiz btw? (both in ubuntu-desktop and the unity-team/ppa)
<pitti> didrocks: oh, I didn't; upgrading now
<Sweetshark> G'Morning
<pitti> hey Sweetshark
<Sweetshark> pitti: any objections against the analysis in bug 969707 or the conclusion that we need pre-depends?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 969707 in libreoffice "package python-uno 1:3.4.4-0ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: sub-processo novo script pre-installation retornou estado de saÃ­da de erro 1" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/969707
<pitti> Sweetshark: why does the preinst need to call sync_extensions in the first place? that seems very unreliable to me
<pitti> preinsts should do as little as possible, the only real reliability you can get is in postinsts
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson
<pitti> Sweetshark: but yes, in general you need to pre-depend on anything you use in a preinst, except for essential packages
<pitti> Sweetshark: but more importantly, preinst scripts which use non-essential commands are strongly, I mean STRONGLY discouraged
<pitti> Sweetshark: in Debian you are required to discuss adding pre-depends: publically and get consensus
<pitti> because they really really hurt the upgrade progess
<pitti> process
<chrisccoulson> hi pitti, how are you?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: very well, thanks! had a nice weekend?
<pitti> didrocks: restarting now to get new compiz
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, it wasn't too bad thank. we cleared a lot of junk from our house and got my daughters new room painted
<didrocks> pitti: waiting anxiously ;)
<didrocks> hey chrisccoulson!
<chrisccoulson> hi didrocks
<chrisccoulson> right, now to break everyones firefox menus :)
<pitti> didrocks: back
<pitti> didrocks: so, when I press win+up for maximizing, I don't get the sticky launcher/help any more; the launcher still appears, though
<pitti> didrocks: otherwise the first few seconds seem just fine :)
<didrocks> pitti: the sticky shouldn't appear in that case in fact, but TBH, it can still appear in other cases ;)
<didrocks> you just got lucky
<didrocks> pitti: and I'm moving the shortcuts for ctrl + Super in a few minutes
<didrocks> so ctrl + super + Up/Down/Right/Left
<didrocks> jibel: as you are the master of findings bugs in a few milliseconds (even sometimes before the update is installed), can you give a try to the new compiz? (in the ubuntu-desktop ppa?) :)
<seb128> hey
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128
<pitti> bonjour seb128, ca va?
<seb128> hey pitti, chrisccoulson, how are you?
<seb128> pitti, ca va bien merci !
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, good thanks. and you?
<pitti> seb128: tres bien, merci!
<seb128> good thanks ;-)
<seb128> did you guys have a good w.e?
<pitti> seb128: can I annoy you with udisks again? I sent a proposed patch to bug 899757, but I need you to verify it
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 899757 in udisks "udisks-daemon assertion error: HACK: Wanting to register object at path `%s' but there is already an object there." [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/899757
<seb128> short week this week! do you guys have friday off as well?
<pitti> seb128: it was rather quiet, but nice indeed
<pitti> seb128: we have Friday and Monday as national holidays, and I took Thursday off
<seb128> pitti, ok, I finish dealing with w.e backlog and give that a try
<pitti> we'll go to Dresden again on Wednesday afternoon, so I'll work offline in the train
<pitti> nice long weekend back home
<seb128> pitti, ok, France as Monday, I collect Friday because I'm half german :p
<seb128> has*
<pitti> seb128: you should have said "I'm 'alf German"
<seb128> ;-)
 * pitti hugs seb128
 * seb128 hugs pitti back
<pitti> seb128: so, I tried for another two hours over the weekend, but scsi_debug is not good enough to reproduce this :/
<Sweetshark> pitti: right, I saw that in the debian policy. however that change by rene for debian bug 658646 works and its a little late to look and test alternatives.
<ubot2> Debian bug 658646 in libreoffice-pdfimport "libreoffice-pdfimport: Extension does not work at all" [Grave,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/658646
<didrocks> salut seb128, bon week-end?
<seb128> didrocks, lut, nickel, et toi ?
<didrocks> seb128: Ã§a va bien, mÃªme si j'ai une vrai semaine, MOI! :)
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> pitti, oh, so we tie again at 306
<pitti> indeed!
<seb128> pitti, well done to get over the 300 mark as well ;-)
<pitti> seb128: we need to coordinate at the end of the cycle if we are close, perhaps we can walk over the finish line together :)
<pitti> seb128: cheers :)
<seb128> that would be good indeed ;-)
<pitti> if you are more than 5 ahead, you are the well deserved winner, of course
<JamesTait> Goooooood mooooornin' intarwebz!
 * didrocks has the feeling he will feel alone on Friday :)
<didrocks> and maybe on Monday too if I swap it for later (for having the maximum time right now for next unity release)
<jibel> didrocks, salut
<jibel> didrocks, 1:0.9.7.4-0ubuntu1~ppa1  ?
<didrocks> jibel: hello ;) oui
<jibel> didrocks, is it enough to kill compiz to load the new version or I must logout/in ?
<didrocks> jibel: it's enough to kill it. However, one on the interesting fix was the hang out on startup :)
<jibel> didrocks, ok
<jibel> didrocks, how do I disable the kb shortcuts help screen ?
<pitti> bonjour jibel, ca va?
<didrocks> jibel: there is nothing to disable it AFAIK
<jibel> hey pitti , I nearly died electrocuted half an hour ago, but seems to be ok, more white hairs :)
<didrocks> jibel: oh? what happened?
<htorque> smspillaz: hi! about bug 940603 - compiz won't start with that plugin enabled :-(
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 940603 in unity "white box randomly shows up at top left corner blocking applications from using stuff under it" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/940603
<smspillaz> htorque: is it last in the plugin list ?
<jibel> didrocks, I was playing with cables
<htorque> smspillaz: let me check
<smspillaz> to to ccsm, advanced settings, disable auto plugin sorting and then put it after unityshell
<htorque> smspillaz: yes
<smspillaz> maybe I should put that in the load rules
<smspillaz> hmm
<smspillaz> does it crash or somethign then ?
<htorque> smspillaz: no, i just don't see anything but the desktop
<ivanka> hi seb128, good morning!
<seb128> ivanka, hey! how are you?
<htorque> smspillaz: let me try a session restart
<ivanka> seb128:  Very well and back in the UK. Now that I have network I just upgraded to 12.04, which is why I am here :-)
<seb128> ivanka, oh ...  ok! tell what is wrong ;-)
<htorque> smspillaz: yes, that did it. though i'm getting lots of flickering on the unity elements.
<ivanka> seb128: it tells me "The package system is broken"
<smspillaz> blargh
<smspillaz> htorque: post your .xsession-errors ?
<htorque> smspillaz: yeah, will try to reproduce the white window and add it to the report
<seb128> ivanka, seems like your upgrade did it an issue? can you go on a command line and sudo apt-get -f install?
<smspillaz> thanks
<ivanka> seb128: that seems to have made python-uno all happy again. The package system is no longer broken. Thank you :-)
<seb128> ivanka, you're welcome ;-)
<htorque__> smspillaz: does this plugin has the potential to make the bug not happen?
<smspillaz> no
<smspillaz> why
<htorque__> ok, then i just need to try harder. thanks.
<smspillaz> can't see it ?
<smspillaz> haha
<htorque__> ha, got it
<smspillaz> htorque__: I got a white window just now
<smspillaz> but you know
<smspillaz> after I disable my debugging plugin
<smspillaz> me sad
<smspillaz> uhhh what
<smspillaz> hmm
<smspillaz> I wonder why I can't select it using this thing
<smspillaz> thats ba
<smspillaz> *ad
<htorque__> smspillaz: ditto :-(
<smspillaz> I wonder if its something else then
<smspillaz> could be a frame window
<smspillaz> I'll change the things
<smspillaz> to pick frame window geoemtry
<htorque__> smspillaz: does that help anyhow? â compiz (stackdebugger) - Warn: 0x1c00007 requested invalid layer 0x7ffffff
<htorque__> that window is the panel
<smspillaz> FFFFFF
<smspillaz> how on earth are they still happening !?!?
<pitti> seb128: yay more syncs
<seb128> pitti, ;-)
<htorque__> smspillaz: though that might be from a different bug (bug 944701), i have no idea if that's really a dupe.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 944701 in unity "Sometimes a single white pixel shows in the top-left corner (dup-of: 940603)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/944701
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 940603 in unity "white box randomly shows up at top left corner blocking applications from using stuff under it" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/940603
<pitti> seb128: btw, new glib landed in unstable, I uploaded pygobject, gtk 3.4 will follow soon, then the rest of gnome 3.4; so we might be able to merge/sync more
<smspillaz> whelp my connection died
<seb128> pitti, there are quite some 3.
<thumper> dumb skype
<seb128> pitti, there are quite some 3.4 component landing in experimental, unstable already
<thumper> seb128: who looks after skype?
<seb128> thumper, microsoft
 * thumper snorts
<thumper> seb128: who looks after skype in ubuntu?
<pitti> it's in the partner repository
<seb128> thumper, microsoft? dunno it's a partner thing
<thumper> it blows
<pitti> last uploaders were mvo and Brian Thomasson
<thumper> I can't get it to use pulse
<thumper> and it tries to output to my speakers
<thumper> makes it unusable
<Riddell> 10:00 < debfx> Qt 4.8.1 needs testing. It's available from kubuntu-ppa/experimental
<seb128> thumper, did that start recently?
<pitti> thumper: right, I haven't been able to use it with my BT headset
<thumper> seb128: a while ago, but I was still using the oneiric one
<thumper> just changed to precies
<thumper> but same issue
<Riddell> anyone from unity or ubuntu one to test Qt 4.8.1?
<seb128> Riddell, ask on #ubuntu-unity for unity2d maybe
<pitti> Riddell: I can give unity-2d a quick test with it if that helps
<Riddell> seb128: please go ahead, it's your flavour
<Riddell> pitti: please
<pitti> Error: 'kubuntu-ppa/experimental' invalid
<seb128> Riddell, it's not my flavor, I use unity-3d :p
<pitti> Error: 'kubuntu/experimental' invalid
<pitti> Error: 'kubuntu/ppa' invalid
<pitti> hmm
<Riddell> seb128: ubuntu desktop uses unity-"2d"
<pitti> Riddell: ^ so what's the actual PPA?
<Riddell> pitti: sudo apt-add-repository ppa:kubuntu-ppa/experimental
<seb128> Riddell, right, well whoever update something should be responsible to make sure the update does't break and give it some testing
<seb128> well anyway pitti is testing it, so good ;-)
<seb128> but it could be worth notifying the unity-2d guys
<Riddell> yes, it would
<pitti> Riddell: argh, silly me; forgot the ppa: prefix, thanks
<seb128> htorque, smspillaz: there was an interesting comment on a duplicate of the white rectangle bug which claims it's triggered by chromium 18 notifications
<seb128> "it has to do with Chrom{e,ium} 18.x and notifications.  The
<seb128> white box appears when I have a gmail notifications specifically."
<seb128> downgrading to chromium 17 and it doesn't happen
<seb128> htorque: do you use chromium?
<htorque__> seb128: yes
<htorque__> the trigger seems to be flash content for me, though.
<chrisccoulson> stop using chromium? sounds like a good fix to me!
<seb128> chrisccoulson, ;-)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, btw how are the hud issues with the new dbusmenu and firefox uploads?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, it seems much better. i fixed quite a few things on the firefox side last week too :)
<chrisccoulson> (which is what i've just uploaded)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, right, I read the changelog, well done!
<didrocks> 3 kernel panic in a morning, not happy morning :/
<seb128> didrocks, stop doing ios! ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: can do if I stop working :p
<seb128> pitti, udisks patch is not good
<pitti> seb128: what do you see?
<seb128> pitti, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/911256/
<seb128> pitti, wait, maybe I screwed the packaging
<seb128> debuild binary didn't do what I wanted
<seb128> i.e seems it didn't do the make install again
<rickspencer3> where am I supposed to find the new privacy settings?
<seb128> rickspencer3, system settings -> privacy
<rickspencer3> seb128, hmm, I guess it didn't get installed
<seb128> rickspencer3, it's on the bottom line
<seb128> rickspencer3, install activity-log-manager-control-center
<rickspencer3> seb, is it not part of the default?
<pitti> seb128: ok, waiting for your next round then
<seb128> rickspencer3, it is
<rickspencer3> I would have thought I would have gotten it in a dist-upgrade
<seb128> pitti, I've something weird, I cped the binary and retried, now udisks exit without error
<pitti> seb128: btw, no reason to cp; you can just sudo src/udisks-daemon -r
<seb128> rickspencer3, maybe you used "upgrade" rather than "dist-upgrade" on some days?
<seb128> pitti, ok, well, now I get udisks to exit without error :-(
<pitti> seb128: what's the last three or so lines of output?
<seb128> pitti, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/911261/
<seb128> pitti, ok, let me do a clean get a new source, reapply the patch round
<seb128> rickspencer3, using "upgrade" avoid having things uninstalled but make you miss new recommends as well
<rickspencer3> seb128, right, but i never upgrade, I always dist-upgrade
<rickspencer3> anyway, it's installed now
<seb128> rickspencer3, well maybe you did catch dist-upgrade at a time the new binary was not available
<rickspencer3> seb128, right, it's probably just one of those things
<seb128> rickspencer3, since that's only a recommends apt is happy to ignore those when that happens
<rickspencer3> I'm not worried
<seb128> pitti, oh
<seb128> pitti, ok, got it
<seb128> pitti,
<seb128>      g_warning ("Ignoring device with nonexisting native path: %s", device->priv->native_path);
<seb128> (gdb) p device
<seb128> $1 = (Device *) 0x0
<seb128> pitti, no cookie for you
<seb128> -> SEGV
<seb128> pitti, out of that new bug the patch works fine, i.e I dropped the %s from the g_warning and got the buggy case -> udisks keeps running
<pitti> seb128: erk, indeed; should be device->priv->native_path -> native_path
<pitti> seb128: did you test with this/
<pitti> seb128: as I said, I have no way of actually triggering this condition :/
<seb128> pitti, I tested dropping the %s as said
<pitti> or that
<seb128> pitti, that works, udisks2 seems solid as well
<pitti> -      g_warning ("Ignoring device with nonexisting native path: %s", device->priv->native_path);
<pitti> +      g_warning ("Ignoring device with nonexisting native path: %s", native_path);
<pitti> seb128: ^
<seb128> pitti, ok, I had just dropped the argument for testing, works fine
<pitti> seb128: ok, many thanks for testing! good to hear that udisks2 is unaffected
<seb128> pitti, yw
<pitti> seb128: udisks1 still has a lot of hacks and workarounds for earlier kernels
<pitti> this is one of them
<seb128> ok
 * pitti sends upstream and will upload this week
<didrocks> seb128: thanks for the libindicator revert :)
<seb128> didrocks, yw
<didrocks> seb128: was spamming us with crashes :)
<seb128> g_variant is hard, people keep screwing up using it ;-)
<thumper> C++ is so much easier...
 * thumper trolls
<glatzor> mvo, hello. Have you time to look at the bug fix merge proposals for session-installer and aptdaemon?
<mvo> glatzor: yes, sorry that it took so long
<mvo> seb128: do you have a idea why there is no underline in the label in this example https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-center/+bug/955030/+attachment/2988350/+files/lala.py
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 955030 in software-center ""Show N technical items" doesnt look clickable" [High,Triaged]
<seb128> mvo, hey
<mvo> seb128: this is a bit puzzling, almost like there is some special behavior triggered for a bottom hbox that is expand=False
<mvo> seb128: this makes the underline appear:
<mvo> -box.pack_start(hbox, False, True, 5)
<mvo> +box.pack_start(hbox, True, True, 5)
<seb128> mvo, puzzling
<mvo> seb128: yeah, works fine in 11.10 fwiw
<mvo> seb128: I played around with various stuff, putting the bottom hbox in a alignment etc but can't make it display the underscore, funny enough bold color etc all work
<seb128> mvo, did you try in C to see if that's python specific?
<seb128> mvo, I tried ld preloading some gtk version back, i.e 3.3.10, still the same bug...
<seb128> mvo, do you know when that issue started?
<mvo> seb128: unfortunately not, I can start working on a workaround for this though
<seb128> mvo, I'm about to go for lunch but I will keep looking for a bit and try the C equivalent then
<mvo> seb128: ok, lets talk in a bit
<didrocks> seb128: so, if we want the HUD key being editable, we need to touch GTK_TYPE_CELL_RENDERER_ACCEL I guess in Gtk
<didrocks> seb128: not sure we want that though
<seb128> didrocks, you mean editable in the ui?
<didrocks> seb128: right, for accepting key modifiers like "Alt"
<didrocks> (without any keybinding
 * didrocks looks at other masks
<seb128> didrocks, I don't like the sound of it ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: I'm not surprised :p me neither for the record
<seb128> didrocks, can we bind a special ui in the appearance behaviour tab rather?
<didrocks> JohnLea: ^
 * didrocks looks at Gtk meanwhile
<didrocks> seb128: in addition to the Gtk change, there is some changes needed for g-c-c to not reject Alt afterwards anyway :)
<seb128> didrocks, the HUD on Alt is madness it's about time they change it to alt-space or something ;-)
<seb128> JohnLea, ^
 * didrocks *sighs* and agrees
<seb128> didrocks, joke aside we are not going to patch gtk to allow a "alt" tapping in the renderer, it's a crazy usecase and not something to change in the toolkit, using alt is special enough that they should come with a custom ui like a 2 choices selection,
<seb128> * use alt
<seb128> * use a custom keybinding
<seb128> then the custom keybindings would let you enter a normal keybinding use the gtk widget
<didrocks> seb128: agreed, I can imagine tons of side-effects in various apps
<didrocks> hum
<didrocks> not quite sure how that can be shown, but yeah
<didrocks> let me look if another value can work though
<seb128> didrocks, well it can't in the keybindings section, that would need to go to the behaviour appearance tab imho
<didrocks> I had some hope in "accel-key" mode that the filtering wasn't here
<didrocks> but it's not the case
<didrocks> for accel-mode, the Gtk doc is quite clear:
<didrocks> "Determines if the edited accelerators are GTK+ accelerators. If they are, consumed modifiers are suppressed, only accelerators accepted by GTK+ are allowed, and the accelerators are rendered in the same way as they are in menus."
<didrocks> anyway, it doesn't seem reasonable a week from the finale freeze
<didrocks> rickspencer3: FYI, as you were asking me this morning ^
<seb128> didrocks, rickspencer3, JohnLea: it's crazy that months after ff we are still looking at adding options, we should move the hud to alt-space and get some unity bugs fixed indeed, we already spent way too much time on trying to fix that alt tapping
<seb128> indeed->instead
<didrocks> well, I fully agree with this sentence and Tim did as well (tapping alt for getting the HUD costed a lot and it's still not fully fixedâ¦)
<didrocks> I think as well any game using alt will be screwed as well (try reset ccsm with pressing "alt")
<tjaalton> didrocks: is it a known bug that fullscreen apps (games) aren't really fullscreen, the unity panel/launcher is always visible? easy to repro by running phoronix-test-suite with some test, possibly a regression in the current unity release
<didrocks> tjaalton: hum, I didn't notice a bug about it yet, maybe there is one, please poke upstream on their channel directly ;)
<didrocks> tjaalton: jay and duflu in particular
<tjaalton> didrocks: which one was that?
<tjaalton> the channel
<didrocks> tjaalton: #ubuntu-unity
<tjaalton> didrocks: ah, of course.. thanks
<didrocks> yw ;)
<asac> UPDATE: i am on latest unity proper, i didnt see any .crash file for a day, by bluetooth headset needs less pairing (e.g. auto re-connects after loosing connectionm and also after suspend/resume) => i believe you guys are on right track. rock on!
<asac> seb128: hud on alt-space? that currently pops up the window menu for me :)
<seb128> asac, hey, good to read such comments, thanks ;-)
<asac> whats the hud?
<seb128> asac, control menus from the keyboard, what you get in unity if you tap alt
<asac> ah
<asac> that one stick around now if you do something more common, right?
<asac> i remember this getting in my way  a bit
<asac> dont know which use case that was though
<didrocks> seb128: translated to "tÃªte haute" in French if you didn't notice :)
<seb128> asac, it used to popup on alt based keybinding, like alt-f2 or ws changes
<seb128> didrocks, ;-)
<asac> btw, i still have the problem that i bought a new cherry keyboard and it has NO WINDOWS KEY
<seb128> didrocks, I didn't, weird translation :p
<asac> what feature am i missing now?
<asac> seb128: oh yeah ... i cannot maximize windows with alt-f10 anymore
<asac> that was one
<seb128> asac, most of the nice stuff, like opening the dash or keyboard shortcuts to use the launcher
<didrocks> seb128: I just noted it because of the shortcut keybinding: "Raccourci pour faire apparaitre l'affichage tÃªte haute" :)
<seb128> i.e super 1 launching,focussing your first launcher icon
<didrocks> the first who can understand wins a price
<asac> hmm
<didrocks> noticed*
<asac> oh if you tab alt i also start seeing the menu
<didrocks> asac: maximizing is Super + Up arrow
<didrocks> asac: tomorrow, it will normally be Control + Super + Up arrow
<asac> didrocks: heh. ok. so i dont have that feature anymore
<asac> why do we need to take this alt- stuff away again?
<didrocks> asac: tapping alt for triggering an action isn't really supported anywhere
<didrocks> asac: so you end with the HUD showing in front of a lot of application when you wanted to do alt + <something>
<didrocks> there are a lot of tricks and workarounds in compiz for that, but it's not fully working and there are still some edge cases
<asac> aha
<asac> if i press on the ubutu button in the launcher, is that the HUD?
<seb128> no, that's the dash
<seb128> if you tap alt it's the hud
<asac> "Type  your Command" ?
<seb128> yes
<asac> ah the "smart command console"
<seb128> that's basically doing matching on the menus of the focussed app
<seb128> the app and the indicators
<asac> wow
<asac> indeed :)
<seb128> well at the moment, it will be improved over cycles to be smarter than using only menus, but for this cycle the "commands" source are the menus
<asac> yeah
<asac> is there any less type intensive HUD future? like something innovative that would allow you to reach all avaialable/focussed action through mouse navigation?
<asac> or is this a general keyboard centric UI?
<seb128> asac, keyboard for now, voice over time
<seb128> asac, not sure about other input methods
<asac> right
<asac> so a freeform interaction thing
<seb128> asac, but I assume you rather want gestures for mouse and you don't need the hud ui to use gestures
<asac> lets see if an how i can work that into my daily use
<asac> not sure about that
<asac> i rarely hit menus anyway
<asac> i guess the case with most mouse usage is really selecting text
<seb128> asac, well it's handy that it controls indicators
<didrocks> asac: people reports good thing in application with complex menus, like drawing software, gimp, inkscapeâ¦
<asac> seb128: how often do you hit indicators?
<asac> mine are usually sitting happily in the bar :)
<asac> but yeah
<asac> i often try to find the sound thing
<asac> to poke around
<asac> but that is mostly bug induced imo
<seb128> asac, the messaging one, if you talk to me I can alt- asac - enter and type my reply to your without using the mouse for example...
<seb128> well that's for im
<asac> oh... ok. i think my messaging isnt properly integrated there
<asac> i see wifi connecting is also potentially nice
<seb128> on IRC I would type desktop or #ubu or something
<seb128> asac, emails as well, you receive a message in your linaro box in tb you can alt-lin-enter
<asac> seb128: yep. i dont use mail anymore
<asac> that was declared ancient technology :)
<asac> in my unit
<seb128> asac, how do you guys communicate nowadays? google hangouts?
<didrocks> asac: you sent your orders by g+? ;)
<asac> yeah hangouts are slowly taking over
<asac> mumble is still kicking though and IRC is the river that continues to flow
<asac> didrocks: good idea ... at least they would read it there :)
<didrocks> ;)
<asac> i actually try to move back to super-ancient... hence tried to chop some cycles to fix/improve mutt for gmail http://code.google.com/p/mutt-gmail/
<asac> later i noticed how much spaghetti code mutt is so I believe this will take a couple of more weeks to change the user experience paradigm to match that
<asac> of gmail
<asac> hehe
<asac> ok have to work hard now
<asac> sorry :)
<seb128> asac, have "fun" ;-)
 * desrt yawn
<desrt> happy monday
<seb128> desrt, hey, how are you? had a good w.e?
<desrt> seb128: pretty good.  hud-service is faster now :)
<seb128> desrt, ;-)
<seb128> desrt, we got some users for get hud-service using 1G ram, there might be a leak somewhere, is that on your list of issues to watch?
<seb128> users who*
<desrt> seb128: i pushed a relatively large leakfix as part of my performance work
<desrt> when i added the icon support, each HudItem got a copy of the icon
<seb128> desrt, ok, when do you hope to land that work?
<desrt> and didn't free it
<seb128> utch
<desrt> so you would leak one icon-name-sized string per-menuitem-per-window that ever existed
<desrt> seb128: i'd appreciate a test build right now, actually
<desrt> out of my hud-performance branch
<desrt> i now have a performance testcase in there that we can use to make informed optimisations if more are needed
<desrt> currently runs in 0:33.  i don't know how long the old code takes to run it -- i left it running when i went out and it was still on when i came back
<mvo> seb128: any ideas about my test-case for the underscore stuff?
<seb128> mvo, no :-( maybe ask on #gtk+?
<seb128> mvo, it's still on my list but I don't see anything obviously wrong ... let me finish what I'm doing and test with the C api
<mvo> ok, I can convert to C too if that helps
<seb128> mvo, I can do it that's ok
<seb128> desrt, I guess I want to backport r200 to fix the leak?
<seb128> desrt, I will do that and get a build from your hud-performance locally and then to the desktop team ppa if it works fine for me
<desrt> sure
<desrt> i tweaked the algorithms a lot too
<desrt> (ie: not just faster -- they will be returning different results now)
<desrt> so local french-testing is highly appreicated :)
<seb128> desrt, I think #system does tarballs on wednesday so 2 days ppa testing and precise on wednesday seems good
<desrt> great
<desrt> the biggest change is that search terms are now order-sensitive
<seb128> desrt, yeah, I will give it some of my preferred testcases including stuff like prÃ©fÃ©rences with and without accents ;-)
<desrt> so "preferences edit" is not a great way to find "Edit > Preferences"
<desrt> in trade for that, though, we now have penalising of missing end terms (but not start terms)
<seb128> works for me
<desrt> so "save" matches equally "File > Save" and "Some > Weird > Menu > Save"
<seb128> well I mean I'm fine with the ordering
<desrt> but less good for "File > Save As"
<desrt> we have a bug about that..
<didrocks> hey desrt ;)
<desrt> didrocks: g'morning
<didrocks> desrt: ah, I had a question for you!
<desrt> time for a nap!
<didrocks> :p
<didrocks> desrt: imagine that we have a funny story, like tapping alt would do something on your system
<didrocks> now, imagine that you want the user to configure that shortcut
<didrocks> like, on g-c-c
<desrt> you'd wire up alt as a hotkey?
<desrt> that's pretty fucking stupid imho
<desrt> but i assume it's only a silly example, so please continue
<didrocks> yeah, let's keep on the theorical side :p
<didrocks> then, this one would appear to be using accel-mode for it's GtkCellRenderer and so discare assigning "alt" to anything
<didrocks> as in this case, it wouldn't send the "accel_edited" callback
<didrocks> and even would filter the alt key in the cell render to show "disabled"
<didrocks> so, in this hypothetical world
<didrocks> would you think of a hack to avoid any more pain and still achieve this?
<didrocks> (oh, and assume than someone else, rightly so, doesn't want us to patch Gtk :p)
<desrt> i'm confused.
<seb128> you can assume than the someone else is french
<desrt> alt is used by a system shortcut
<desrt> and that's causing problems with the toolkit?
<didrocks> of course, we are at the beginning of a cycle and we have the full time to consider any options :)
<didrocks> seb128: ;)
<didrocks> desrt: basically, the g-c-c shortcut dialog is using a gtk treeview to assign shortcuts
<seb128> desrt, the toolkit is what provides the gcc widget used to change shortcuts
<didrocks> this is where you can't set "Alt" to it
<desrt> oh.
<desrt> that's very bad.
<seb128> desrt, but the toolkit guys didn't consider that you might want to use "alt" as a shortcut
<desrt> sounds like the way in which alt is being grabbed is broken
<didrocks> The "accel-mode" property
<didrocks> "Determines if the edited accelerators are GTK+ accelerators. If they are, consumed modifiers are suppressed, only accelerators accepted by GTK+ are allowed, and the accelerators are rendered in the same way as they are in menus."
<didrocks> from devhelp
<desrt> what happens for tapping other modifiers?
<desrt> ctrl, say?
<desrt> so interesting...
<didrocks> desrt: same, you don't have the edit signal
<didrocks> desrt: but Ctrl+alt does
<desrt> the windows key comes to mind as the obvious example of a modifier that could possibly cause an action to occur on another desktop environment...
<desrt> and it gets ignored as well
<didrocks> right
<desrt> and if you look in the settings, you see that alt+f1 is assigned for this purpose
<didrocks> then, you have a filtering g-c-c side as well
<didrocks> but this one would be easy to bypass
<desrt> i assume the changing of the accel occurs by taking a keyboard grab
<desrt> so that no existing system-level grabs have an effect
<desrt> ie: toolkit is entirely in charge here
<didrocks> desrt: how would Ctrl + Alt takes a keyboard grab then?
<desrt> for me it doesn't
<didrocks> ok, you're right
<didrocks> I should have touched another key while trying
<desrt> so it's complicated
<desrt> because those are modifiers
<desrt> they are not supposed to be perceived as input
<didrocks> indeed
<desrt> (windows key aside), the idea of tying one to an accel is a bit... odd
<didrocks> desrt: remember, it's still hypothetical :p
<desrt> (and i only put the windows key aside because the real oddity there is that the windows key is considered a modifier)
<desrt> so i'm sure the code explicitly ignores modifiers right now so that when you go to press alt+x, it doesn't assume that you wanted 'alt'
<desrt> and therefore i assume that what you're proposing is to have the key sequence <press alt><release alt> to come up with alt as the accel
<didrocks> yeah, and detecting tapping would be a little bit hackish, risky, and won't make seb128 happy? ;)
<didrocks> exactly :p
<seb128> <- not happy
<seb128> ;-)
<didrocks> see!
<didrocks> ;)
<desrt> <seb128> <- never happy
<seb128> desrt, !!!
<didrocks> I'm not sure why g-c-c has a filter on its side as well for modifiers only shortcut btw, seems a double checking (but easy to workaround) :)
<desrt> the other concern: this only makes sense at all if the toolkit is able to see 'alt' as an accel
<desrt> and i have some doubts about that
<desrt> i've heard that treating the process of tapping alt to be a shortcut is quite... hard
<didrocks> desrt: just wanted to know your feeling about it
<desrt> my feeling are that you are in a world of pain :)
<didrocks> we pinged JohnLea about the technical limitation, let's see his answer
<didrocks> desrt: may I quote you? ;-)
<desrt> sure
<didrocks> so not so-easy-hack-without-any-regression on top of your head for that matter?
<desrt> i don't think it's a case of 'filtering' as you suggest
<desrt> i think it's rather a case of the toolkit treating modifier keys as modifier keys
<desrt> pressing alt on its own is not supposed to have an effect...
<didrocks> yeah, so the wanted event isn't even triggered on pressing alt and we would have to hack around it in a very bad way
 * desrt is looking at the code now
<desrt> well
<desrt> i'm sure that there's a keyboard grab setup and a function that gets *all* keystrokes at that time
<desrt> ignoring modifiers
<desrt> maybe not...
<desrt> looks like that function is not even told of modifiers
<didrocks> oh?
<desrt> it takes the first keypress it sees at all...
<didrocks> the callback though have the GdkModifierType
<didrocks> so this is factored in a higher level?
<desrt> ya. but gtk tells it what that is
<desrt> indeed
<didrocks> "fun" :)
<desrt> it would seem that if you press alt+s then you see only one keypress
<desrt> which is "s" with modifier mask set for alt
<desrt> this is really cool
<desrt> so gdk reports the event as a normal keypress
 * desrt continues to dig
<bcurtiswx> good morning
<didrocks> desrt: "the event", you mean, an "alt tapping"?
<didrocks> hey bcurtiswx
<didrocks> well, an alt press
<desrt> i mean an alt press
<didrocks> ok
<desrt> doing some tests...
<desrt> this may not be _that_ hard....
<desrt> it may have to be opt-in
<desrt> like with GTK_CELL_RENDER_ACCEL_MODE_BARE_MODIFIERS or something
<bcurtiswx> is kenvandine out today?
<didrocks> desrt: opt in would be great, yeah. People will stil be able to assign "alt" to some other stuff that Gtk wouldn't be able to handle, or maybe I can prevent that g-c-c side
<didrocks> like "only enable alt only on this key"
<desrt> didrocks: doesn't work like that
<desrt> keep in mind that this is a cellrenderer and only one copy of the cell renderer exists :)
<desrt> although, strictly speaking, i guess you could probably put a key in the treemodel to enable/disable this behaviour and bind that to a property...
<didrocks> desrt: I meant, filtering that back on the callback
<didrocks> and then eventually rejecting the change
<desrt> oh.  interesting.
<desrt> quite possible, i suppose
<didrocks> yeah, g-c-c structure is well done for that, there are already some cases
<didrocks> like you can't bind "a" shorcut :)
<desrt> so i feel quite dumb now
<desrt> i see what you were trying to tell me about the 'filter'
<desrt> the if statement right at the top :p
<didrocks> ;)
<desrt> okay.  this is doable
<desrt> but it won't be pretty
<desrt> how about multi-modifier taps, btw?
<desrt> is ctrl+alt a shortcut?
<desrt> also.. what do i do in the case that i see this sequence:
<desrt> <ctrl down> <alt down> <alt up> <shift down> <shift up> <ctrl up>
<desrt> or even
<didrocks> desrt: TBH, this is only only for one keyâ¦ so I would assume let's be crazy (like, not consider edge case) on setting that one.  I think people who wants to redefine alt to something else would use something like alt + Space or less crazy
<desrt> <alt down> <ctrl down> <ctrl up> <'x' down> <'x' up> <alt up>
<desrt> so only single-modifier tapping supported
<didrocks> I wouls assume, just <modifier down><modifier up>
<didrocks> yeah
<desrt> okay
<didrocks> patching gtk just for one use case isn't nice though, do you think it's possible to put as much possible this divergence in the code back in g-c-c (like getting the widget here)?
<didrocks> that's something that seb128 won't oppose I guess ;)
<seb128> desrt, I blame you for suggesting adding another distro patch to gtk we will never get ride of :p
<desrt> seb128: UPSTREAM!
<desrt> seb128: you may only apply this patch as a cherry-pick from git
<desrt> otherwise blame lies with only you :)
<didrocks> desrt: you are willing to push that upstream directly? Awesome :)
<desrt> why not?
<desrt> we could use it to set the windows key for the shell :)
<seb128> desrt, ok ;-)
<smspillaz> desrt: very very random question
<smspillaz> desrt: do you know if gtk releases grabs
<smspillaz> if the grabbed window intentionally loses focus
<smspillaz> eg
<smspillaz> pops up a modal dialog
<smspillaz> or does it wait on some condition from the window manager
<didrocks> desrt: you're right, there is this why-is-this-a-modifier super annoying key :)
<desrt> smspillaz: no idea
<smspillaz> okay
 * desrt is not a toolkit guy :)
<smspillaz> time for me to go digging into gtk
<smspillaz> desrt: but I see your name in the copyright :P !
<smspillaz> or do you have some
<smspillaz> doppelganger
<desrt> doppelganger theory sounds good to me
<desrt> gotta run!
<kenvandine> BigWhale, kazam sponsored
<BigWhale> kenvandine, +1 beer
<BigWhale> :))
<desrt> didrocks: you have a fun new problem
<desrt> didrocks: my chnages are working perfectly
<desrt> didrocks: but of course you know about how Alt-L and Alt-R are really two different keys...
<didrocks> desrt: indeed :)
<desrt> got a plan? :)
<seb128> desrt, why is that an issue? it means you can map the hud to r-alt which is good
<seb128> that means less conflicts?
<didrocks> desrt: I don't get the issue? the keycode are differents?
<desrt> i dunno.  is that how it works?
<seb128> desrt, well current only lalt works by default
<desrt> oh.  interesting.
<didrocks> it's not the same key in the french keyboard and it doesn't modify the keys the same way
<seb128> but I would like to remap to ralt now that you mention it
<desrt> so for alt maybe that makes sense -- particularly for non-US keyboards
<didrocks> so, left alt seems ok to me :)
<desrt> but same happens for ctrl and shift
<didrocks> desrt: I guess it makes sense that if you want to assign a physical key for something, you just assign one
<desrt> it's quite rare to think that the left shift key is different from the right one
<desrt> very well *shrug*
<didrocks> not sure, just how I would understand it without trying
<desrt> btw: i managed to make multiple-modifier chords word
<desrt> *work
<desrt> so you can do ctrl down alt down alt up ctrl up
<desrt> and then you get Ctrl + Alt L
<didrocks> desrt: oh, in addition to that? :) awesome!
<desrt> just adding the conditional support now...
<didrocks> not sure if some people are mad enough for that, but nice ;)
<jbicha> didrocks: howdy, when's Unity 5.10 scheduled for?
<didrocks> jbicha: hey ;) will be next week, it will hopefully be the finale release :)
<didrocks> this week is all about the preparation and last bug fixes for it
<jbicha> ah, I was hoping for a quick fix for bug 964325
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 964325 in unity-lens-applications "Regression: Installed apps not sorted alphabetically" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/964325
<didrocks> jbicha: is that impact you a lot? doesn't seem to make a difference for screenshots?
<didrocks> jbicha: if we start backporting every commit, we will never end ;) (and some commits in trunk regressed some test cases already)
<jbicha> I wouldn't say it's a big impact, but we do use it for the big screenshot at https://help.ubuntu.com/11.10/ubuntu-help/unity-introduction.html
<jbicha> it's not a big deal at this point
<desrt> seb128: i didn't mark that patch as fixing that leak because i'm not sure that it does
<seb128> desrt, yeah, I will reopen I think, launchpad lack a "fix part of lp: #nnn" which would reference without closing
<desrt> well
<desrt> more like maybe-fixes :)
<seb128> desrt, I like having the cross referencing
<desrt> i did a valgrind and it's the only thing that popped out
<seb128> desrt, so I listed anyway
<desrt> doesn't mean there won't be others
<desrt> seems a bit odd to have a few leaking icon names take up 1gig
<seb128> desrt, ok, I will comment asking "if you still see a leak please reopen"
<desrt> sounds good
 * desrt thinks a bit
<seb128> desrt, is that a few? or is one for each menu item?
<desrt> assume icon name plus malloc overhead is like 100 bytes
<desrt> assume each window has like 200 menu items, tops
<didrocks> jbicha: do not hesitate to tell me if you have big changes that you need to have backported
<didrocks> jbicha: you can still use the unity-team/staging ppa for screenshots
<desrt> so like 20k leaked per window open/close
<desrt> ah... one thing, though -- network manager is changing its menus all the time
<didrocks> jbicha: stability not garanteed, but good enough on a spare machine to take those (it's always latest upstream trunks)
<desrt> when new networks come and go
<desrt> and signal strength is changing
<desrt> so that would be more memory leaked every 10 seconds
<desrt> that could add up....
<jbicha> didrocks: ok I'll try the PPA, thanks!
<didrocks> jbicha: yw ;)
<seb128> desrt, one of the guy had a 4 days uptime, so yeah, every 10 seconds on 4 days ...
<desrt> it's in the realm of possibility
<desrt> i'd have loved to see the bug get to a point where after a few people reporting the same we notice "this bug only seems to happen on laptops...."
<desrt> would be fun :)
<seb128> desrt, sort of "wouldn't print on tuesday" bug? ;-)
<desrt> didrocks: patching control-centre now to use my new API (to test if it works)
<didrocks> desrt: ok, in that case, you need to look at the keyval_is_forbidden() function (just return False if you want for now) to see if it works :)
<desrt> is that the one that prevents me from binding the lowercase 'x'?
<didrocks> desrt: no, that's accel_edited_callback ()
<didrocks> look for /* Check for unmodified keys */
<didrocks> (the check for keyval_is_forbidden () is part of this if)
<didrocks> as well as other check for standalone key
<desrt> seems to be working without additional changes
<didrocks> oh? keyval_is_forbidden () has some forbidden_keyvals checks which GDK_KEY_Mode_switch
<didrocks> uses*
<didrocks> I would have assume this one would cause issues
<desrt> didrocks: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=673360
<ubot2> Gnome bug 673360 in general "accel cell renderer: support modifier 'tapping'" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<desrt> seems to work good in gtk and also working well with a small modification in the control centre (ie: changing the 'mode')
<desrt> up to you to figure out how to implement it in unity :)
 * desrt makes coffee
<didrocks> desrt: the patch looks nice and not intrusive. Also I like the new feature. Thinking about it, I guess I even have an hypothetical use case for it! :-)
<seb128> cyphermox, hey
<cyphermox> hey
<seb128> cyphermox, how are you? had a good w.e?
<cyphermox> yeah pretty good
<cyphermox> and you?
<seb128> cyphermox, I'm good thanks
<seb128> cyphermox, we just had an archive rebuild test, http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20120328-precise.html
<cyphermox> cool, will look into it :)
<seb128> cyphermox, evolution-exchange and evolution-indicator show are ftbfsing (not finding some eds libs when linking it seems)
<seb128> cyphermox, do you think you could look at those 2?
<cyphermox> story of the same think as is happening every release, probably
<seb128> cyphermox, oh, evolution is on there as well, libpst
<cyphermox> yes, should not take much time
<seb128> cyphermox, thanks
<cyphermox> I'll tackle all the ones I can figure out
<cyphermox> also -couchdb, -mapi, -rss, urgh
<mdeslaur> cyphermox: thanks for fixing NM adhoc WPA
<cyphermox> ah, why is heartbeat and this apache module under ubuntu-desktop?
<cyphermox> mdeslaur: "fixing" :)
<mdeslaur> cyphermox: well, hiding it :)
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, so, i made firefox crash!
<tkamppeter> pitti, hi
<pitti> hello tkamppeter
<tkamppeter> pitti, I have subscribed you to several "CUPS does not restart after update" bugs, on bug 968956 there is already an answer, seems to be AppArmor.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 968956 in cups "package cups 1.5.2-8bzr2 failed to install/upgrade: Unterprozess installiertes post-installation-Skript gab den Fehlerwert 1 zurÃ¼ck" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/968956
<pitti> tkamppeter: I noticed, tahnks
<pitti> tkamppeter: reassigned to apparmor
<Sweetshark> pitti: _rene_ only wants conflicts, not pre-depends ...
<Sweetshark> pitti: I guess that will work too, although it is not really "correct" ....
<pitti> Sweetshark: conflicts to what?
<pitti> you need to pre-depend on the package that provides the command your preinst calls
<Sweetshark> pitti: conflicts to libreoffice-common/-core <3.5
<pgraner> didrocks, are you hearing of unity segfaults after todays updates?
<didrocks> pgraner: panel service or unity itself?
<didrocks> pgraner: there has been no unity update for a week
<Sweetshark> pitti: well, the sync_extensions call uses unopkg.bin (from -core), but is does nothing if that is not there, so with a conflicts:-line we should either get a working 3.5 unopkg.bin or a missing one resulting in a noop
<pitti> Sweetshark: does the preinst DTRT if sync_extensions does not exist?
<pgraner> didrocks, unity --reset gives me: Segmentation fault (core dumped)
<pgraner> didrocks, just got the crash its uploading to LP
<Sweetshark> DTRT?
<didrocks> pgraner: so you meant, it's a crash on --reset, right?
<pitti> Sweetshark: "does the right thing"
<pitti> Sweetshark: i. e. succeeds
<didrocks> pgraner: keep me posted with the bug #
<pgraner> didrocks, yep, after I updated I rebooted and I got a desktop with no panel, launcher etc...
<pgraner> didrocks, so ctl-alt-f1 unity --reset give a segfault
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, on first login to my desktop I loaded empathy and used the messaging menu to switch my status to away. All accounts switched except for AIM (telepathy-haze). Once I used empathy to switch to away all accounts switched and upon using the messaging menu after that all accounts switched to the correct status
<pitti> Sweetshark: http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=pkg-openoffice/libreoffice.git;a=commitdiff;h=f34451f9ef4a7508904704c9abd5c1767b247055 does not have any || true after the sync_extensions
<Sweetshark> pitti: but http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=pkg-openoffice/libreoffice.git;a=blob;f=shell-lib-extensions.sh;h=21dafe32323e261d0943bcb99cb2429b9aab0602;hb=ubuntu-precise-3.5 check for unopkg.bin being there.
<Sweetshark> s/check/checks
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, i searched for bugs in haze or messaging menu or empathy and found none.
<didrocks> pgraner: give me the bug # once retraced
<pgraner> didrocks, looks like it nux https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nux/+bug/971617
<ubot2> pgraner: Error: <Bugtracker.plugin.Launchpad instance at 0xa91202c> bug 971617 not found
<pgraner> didrocks, not retraced yet
<pitti> Sweetshark: but that function/script itself is in l-common
<didrocks> pgraner: we got one last week on --reset, but it's suppossed to be fixed, one sec
<pitti> Sweetshark: so what if l-common is too old, or not installed?
<didrocks> pgraner: ok, I keep the tab open until it's retraced and the bot subscribed me
<pitti> Sweetshark: in general, it's so much easier to do such complex stuff in postinst only
<pgraner> didrocks, looks like its dumping in the nvidia binary driver
<didrocks> pgraner: ah, tseliot ^ maybe?
<pgraner> didrocks, possibly
<pgraner> didrocks, I subscribed you so you can see the stack trace
<Sweetshark> pitti: right.
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, is that consistently reproducable?
<kenvandine> like always aim that fails the first time?
<didrocks> pgraner: hum, I would be surprised that the crash is because of an invalid unity::ui::IconRenderer::RenderElement reference (as this code is called a lot and didn't change for the past months). So maybe nvidia race? Let's see once it will be retraced
<pgraner> didrocks, ack, I'll be here :)
<didrocks> :)
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, i will test brb
<Sweetshark> pitti: I think the sync_extensions in preinst in superfluous as we do trigger that (via trigger in core) anyway ....
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, using menu Chat->quit then starting empathy again can reproduce the issue
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, my dist is from an upgrade from 11.10 so IDK if there are any residual configs
<Sweetshark> pitti: also: shell-lib-extension.sh is not used from an installed package, but added to each maintainer script (see debian/rules:1863), so it is not used from -common, but in fact part of the maintscript itself.
<pitti> Sweetshark: oh, it gets put into the .preinst during build time?
<Sweetshark> pitti: thats what I assumed, I will recheck.
 * didrocks needs to go for the co-owner meeting for his building, ttyl guys! (will probably either reconnect, either work offline)
<didrocks> (not sure about the co-owner translation, but it's the closer I can think of :p)
<chrisccoulson> heh, pitti - http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.dev.apps.firefox/browse_thread/thread/93b7f392176df62a#. it seems they started to notice that their downloads are getting bigger ;)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: hah, at last :)
<pitti> good night everyone!
<seb128> 'night pitti
<pitti> seb128: btw, any luck with bug 899858?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 899858 in oem-priority/precise "regression in gvfs to connect/browse using obex" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/899858
<seb128> pitti, it's the remaining item on my todo for today ;-)
<pitti> hah
<pitti> I'll be back for TB meeting tonight
<seb128> pitti, I just got finished with the other stuff I was doing
<seb128> pitti, see you later!
<pitti> enjoy the evening!
<zyga> I'd like to report a bug on thunderbird theming, I'm not 100% sure how to report it, also, I'd like someone to confirm they see this on their end and that it is not too monitor specific
<zyga> the bug is: unselected item background color is very hard to differentiate from background (white)
<zyga> on my monitor it is virtually the same, there is a very subtle tint but I can barely see it
<zyga> the problem is also magnified by message listing that (at least for me) cycles even/odd colors for each row
<zyga> anyone? ^^
<seb128> zyga, try pinging Cimi on #ubuntu-unity, I mentioned it to him already, he said that's a tb bug they do custom theming stuff
<zyga> seb128, thanks
<seb128> not sure know if he said he would fix it, he said he was not interested to look at the tb code but that he could maybe workaround it in the theme
<zyga> seb128, I'm sure the bug is in the theme, installing an alternate theme allows me to "fix" this
<seb128> or the other theme you use has a workaround for tb
<G__81> hi jono
<jono> hey G__81
<G__81> hey jono i had sent my feedback to Daniel after going through the getting started with Ubuntu Devel. I am not sure whether he received it or whether he had a chance to look @ it. I hope i have sent it to the right email id :o
<jono> G__81, which email address did you send it to?
<G__81> jono: the one mentioned in the blog which talks about this ubuntu development
<jono> G__81, then probably just hasnt replied to it yet
<ritz> heya, do we have a lp bzr tree for qt ?
<ritz> https://code.launchpad.net/qt lists a few different tree
<ritz> s
<G__81> jono: oh ok just wanted to know whether he received it
<jono> G__81, np
<jono> you should ask him, I am not sure which email he has or has not recieved
<G__81> yeah i tried to see if i could catch him but i dont find him here :)
<jono> G__81, he is in #ubuntu-community-team in European hours
<jbicha> desktoppers, what do you think of bug 969235 ?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 969235 in metacity "Keyboard shortcuts - Update some window management shortcuts to use "Ctrl + Super" instead of just "Super" " [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/969235
<chrisccoulson> lol @ https://twitter.com/#!/bwinton/status/186863971746316289
<mvo> seb128: any luck with my label underline issue?
<mvo> (sorry for nagging)
<seb128> mvo, the C testcase has the same issue so for once it's not the bindings ;-)
<mvo> heh :) and it should be reasonable clear for a bugreport
<seb128> mvo, indeed
<mvo> ok, that puts my mind at ease for now and I ahve dinner
<seb128> mvo, ld preloading gtk from oneiric has the same issue
<seb128> mvo, so I wonder if it could be pango or something
<seb128> mvo, still investigating
<seb128> mvo, I will let you know tomorrow
<seb128> mvo, enjoy dinner
<mvo> ta! could be pango too, running it in my oneiric VM worked
<mvo> I think at least :)
<seb128> mvo, no luck downgrading pango, a bit puzzling...
<davmor2> seb128: do you happen to have a camera?
<davmor2> seb128: if so could you try plugging it in to your precise box, for me I get the "What do you want to do box" it correctly gives me shotwell as the only app option but fails to open it
<davmor2> seb128: nevermind missing dep
<dobey> bcurtiswx: around?
<bcurtiswx> dobey, yes
<dobey> bcurtiswx: can you test a fix for bug #969262 ?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 969262 in libubuntuone/trunk "Error while getting credentials: The '/org/freedesktop/secrets/collection/login/24' object does not exist" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/969262
<bcurtiswx> dobey, sure
<dobey> bcurtiswx: if you install the libubuntuoneui-3.0-1 package from the ubuntuone nightlies ppa (ppa:ubuntuone/nightlies), quit rhythmbox, and then search for a song in the music lens for purchase, and click on it, it should open correctly to the page instead of giving that weird error, now
<bcurtiswx> dobey, im trying to reproduce the issue so I can confirm it's squashed, but now everytime i try to load rhythmbox with ubuntuone using the lens it keeps asking me to signup for ubuntu one although i already have an account :-\
<bcurtiswx> so once i can get that bug reproduced I will install that build
<dobey> bcurtiswx: quit rhythmbox and run u2sdtool -d && u1sdtool -c in a terminal
<dobey> but i think that is another incantation of the same problem :(
<dobey> which means i keep chasing symptoms because i can't find the actual problem. yay memory corruption from race conditions :(
<bcurtiswx> dobey, i'm assuming you meant u1sdtool for both ?
<dobey> oh yes
<dobey> there is no ubuntu two :)
<bcurtiswx> i figured out how to reproduce the bug, lol but the tool didn't help it
<dobey> ah, no, the u1sdtool bit was just to help you get back logged in
<dobey> since the music store widget deleted your token :(
<bcurtiswx> ah i c
<dobey> which is what the original error was about. the token got deleted from the keyring while it was being used, so the client (music store widget) had a reference to a keyring object on dbus that no longer existed :(
<dobey> but this definitely seems to be memory corruption induced by io bound operations :(
<bcurtiswx> dobey, ok i've installed 3.1+r149-31~precise1 and i'm going to try to reproduce
<bcurtiswx> dobey, still error :(
<dobey> sigh :(
<dobey> bcurtiswx: thanks, i'll try to see if i can't find something else that will cause it.
<bcurtiswx> I open rhythmbox by itself (no lens), click the ubuntu music store in there, let it load, close rhythmbox.  Using the music lens type in 'adele' and click on her album '21' and it will cause error
<dobey> right
<bcurtiswx> if i keep reproducing the error, the number at the end increases
<dobey> right
<dobey> because the id for the entry in the keyring has changed
<dobey> or it keeps trying to get the next wrong one, or something
<dobey> i'm not sure, but that's just a symptom and not the problem itself
<dobey> albeit that error message is kind of useless
<bcurtiswx> dobey, OK. Good luck, and I'm more than happy to test whenever you think of another potential fix. I am heading home though and will be available tomorrow starting at 9AM ET
<dobey> and it's a very io-bound problem. if i increase startup io load for rbox enough to get it on my workstation, then fix it, it still breaks on slower machines it seems
<dobey> ok, thanks bcurtiswx
<bcurtiswx> see everyone tomorrow
<chrisccoulson> can anyone else trigger bug 971800?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 971800 in firefox "Firefox crashes while trying to delete a bookmark" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/971800
<Sweetsha1k> oh, mayhem in oakland and its not even UDS.
<jbicha> Sweetsha1k: what's with the IRC nick?
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-04-03
<jasoncwarner_> hey chrisccoulson , achiang was wondering if we have a Firefox ESR PPA? I wasn't sure. Last I checked we didn't.
<achiang> surely chrisccoulson isn't awake atm?
<LLStarks> hi jbicha, did you ever get gnome-boxes working on precise? deb or git, it always segfaults.
<jbicha> LLStarks: do you have hardware virtualization
<jbicha> because yes, it does work with the Debian packaging on amd64 with hw virtualization, there's some rough edges but that's to be expected for the first release after a few months development
<LLStarks> jbicha, i have vt-x
<LLStarks> no vt-d
<LLStarks> i can also do a bt if you want
<LLStarks> seems to fail because of sparql
<jbicha> LLStarks: sparql? do you have tracker-0.14 installed? & have you rebooted after installing all that?
<jbicha> LLStarks: Boxes doesn't actually work for me on my usual computers, no hw-virt :(
<jbicha> LLStarks: oh, and you'll need qemu-kvm-spice on Ubuntu
<LLStarks> lemme check
<LLStarks> i do have tracker installed
<LLStarks> i'll brb with a reboot. if you want a trace, i'll paste it
<LLStarks> not sure what symbols i need though
<LLStarks> jbicha, http://pastebin.com/Qs5pHLEB
<jbicha> LLStarks: perhaps tracker needs to be compiled with iso support
<jbicha> like I said, the app doesn't really work for me
<jbicha> and because it requires the libvirt from Debian experimental, it's not going to land in Precise
<pitti> Good morning
<TheMuso> Morning pitti.
<TheMuso> pitti: re bug 966845 any suggestions?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 966845 in pyatspi "lucid->precise upgrade wants to remove ubuntu-desktop" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/966845
<pitti> TheMuso: there might be more subtle ways to fix this, but for now the only alternative I know of is to drop the Conflicts:, and have them both installed side by side
<pitti> TheMuso: err, I mean
<TheMuso> urm.... I don't think they can be installed side by side.
<pitti> TheMuso: make the conflicts versioned
<pitti> TheMuso: and have transitional at-spi and python-pyatspi packages which depend on their newer counterparts
<pitti> TheMuso: when we drop the last "real" reverse depends on the old stack, they can become transitional
<TheMuso> Ok, I'll file a removal request for gok.
 * TheMuso meant to do that yesterday, but got sidetracked.
<pitti> TheMuso: I'll do that immediately then
<TheMuso> Ok.
<pitti> TheMuso: then the transitional approach seems best to me
<TheMuso> yes ok.
<TheMuso> pitti: bug 972101
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 972101 in gok "Please remove gok from precise." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/972101
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> bonjour didrocks
<didrocks> guten morgen pitti :)
<pitti> TheMuso: removed and blacklisted from syncing
<TheMuso> pitti: So, if I am understanding your suggestion correctly, we also need to remove at-spi package.
<pitti> TheMuso: less urgent, but eventually yes
<pitti> TheMuso: at-spi2 should build a transitional at-spi package, and similar for pyatspi
<TheMuso> But wouldn't that mean we have one binary package from 2 sources? I thought that wasn't possible...
<BigWhale> Good Morning.
<bkerensa> pitti: Do you know of any bug in 12.04 that would prevent a BT device from showing up in Sound Settings as a profile?
<bkerensa> pitti: I tried getting this resolve and slangasek helped some but it ended up just having to be reported as a bug here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/972063
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 972063 in pulseaudio "Bluetooth Headset pairs but does not show up in Sound Settings profile" [Undecided,New]
<pitti> didrocks: so, HUD madness is finally gone for me, yay :)
<pitti> TheMuso: we still need to remove the old sources afterwards, of cours
<didrocks> pitti: *phew*, awesome! :)
<pitti> TheMuso: but you can have two binaries from two sources, apt will just install the one with the higher version number
<pitti> TheMuso: so we don't need to remove the old sources prior to uploading the new ones
<pitti> bkerensa: not off-hand; cyphermox might know
<pitti> bkerensa: I have about three BT devices here, and they all show up
<bkerensa> pitti: ok yeah its really weird that its not showing up even though it pairs fine
<TheMuso> pitti: ah ok.
<bkerensa> cyphermox: if you get a chance can you perhaps have a look at that bug ^ and if you have any troubleshooting tips or debugging ideas can you share them? thx
<jasoncwarner_> morning pitti and didrocks  :)
<didrocks> hey jasoncwarner_, how are you? :)
<pitti> hey jasoncwarner_
<jasoncwarner_> didrocks, good, thanks, just getting 12.10 stuff ramping up!
<didrocks> jasoncwarner_: living on really edge! ;)
<jasoncwarner_> didrocks: what time is it for you? 7am or 6am? (daylight savings is messing me up again). Pitti, same? 7am?
<didrocks> 8am now :)
<pitti> jasoncwarner_: 8 AM
 * jasoncwarner_ thinks the world should adopt a standard clock so I don't melt my brain twice a year ;)
<smspilla1> didrocks: are you ok if we just distro patch seahorse to fix https://bugs.launchpad.net/seahorse/+bug/931958 ?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 931958 in unity-distro-priority "0.9.7: impossible to click on keyring dialog since the upgrade" [Medium,Fix committed]
<smspilla1> I've looked into it for quite some time now and I just don't see a plausible way for compiz to work around this stupid behaviour
<didrocks> smspilla1: well, seb128 knows more upstream than I, but they are friendly to us. I think it's doable if it's reasonable
<smspilla1> okay, I'll see what I can do
<didrocks> "he fact that is works on metacity is a fluke because seahorse is deciding not to take a grab in the particular focus path that metacity uses."
<didrocks> smspilla1: you mean that seahose is detecting metacity?
<smspilla1> no its just
<smspilla1> I'm not really sure what its doing
<smspilla1> but it seems to release its grabs somewhat
<smspilla1> arbitrarily
<smspilla1> the whole fact that its retaining a grab even when the window loses focus makes no sense IMO
<smspilla1> could also be a server bug too ... this is hard to track down because I've tried setting breakpoints on XIDeviceGrab and XIDeviceUngrab and it didn't indicate that seahorse is explicitly taking or releasing any grabs here, even though a simple test application shows that something has a grab
<smspilla1> maybe its an external process that is taking the grab ?
<smspilla1> I'm not sure how well seahorse works ...
<smspilla1> well, I'm not entirely sure how seahorse works in that regard, rather
<smspilla1> didrocks: ah I see what its doing
<smspilla1> it ungrabs the device, pops up a new window
<smspilla1> and then if the focus moves away from that window it grabs the device again
<smspilla1> but if you give focus to the dialog, it won't release that grab again
<smspilla1> at least as far as I can tell
<smspilla1> so I think what is happening is that
<smspilla1> it ungrabs the device
<smspilla1> compiz change sthe focus to something else and then to that window
<smspilla1> and then seahorse gets confused
<smspilla1> although considering that other wms are also doing this, I think their heurestic is probably broken, and we should just make it ungrab whenever the dialog gets the focus
<smspilla1> didrocks: wdyt ?
<smspilla1> (its a separate pid too, clever)
<didrocks> smspilla1: I have no strong opinion, I would first want upstream to comment on why they are doing it this way
<didrocks> smspilla1: maybe it's related to some security concerns
<didrocks> smspilla1: so let's wait seb, he knows upstream very well for seahorse
<didrocks> smspilla1: thanks for looking into it :)
<smspilla1> well like
<smspilla1> it would seem to me that it would make sense to release the grab
<smspilla1> after the dialog gets focus again
<smspilla1> since I'm now pretty sure that
<smspilla1> if you open seahorse, pop up the keyring input, cause the modal dialog to open
<smspilla1> and then switch focus to something else
<smspilla1> and then BACK to seahorse
<smspilla1> will break
<smspilla1> (or at least, it does on g-s
<smspilla1> lets try metacity ...
<smspilla1> oh huh
<smspilla1> interesting it doesn't re-grab if you move focus away with metacity
<didrocks> interesting :)
<jasoncwarner_> hey smspilla1 given we are so close to final freeze, we kind of need a fix for this. Maybe not ideal, but something. What would be possible to make it work even if the app is "being stupid"
<jasoncwarner_> ?
<smspilla1> jasoncwarner_: I am looking into that now
<smspilla1> jasoncwarner_: you can't forcibly release grabs, so we need to patch the application
<jasoncwarner_> smspilla1: ok...and I assume you are looking at how to patch the application (when you say you are "looking into it")?  :)
<smspilla1> yes
<jasoncwarner_> smspillaz: sweet!, thanks dude !
<smspillaz> np
<jasoncwarner_> PERTH FTW!
<smspillaz> not really
<smspillaz> perth is a pretty miserable city
<smspillaz> better than adelaide though
<jasoncwarner_> whatever, everyone I know from perth is like "perth is awesome" and "adelaide is stupid" and "math is hard, let's go shopping".
<smspillaz> hmm
<smspillaz> there are three parts to that statement which are true
<jasoncwarner_> wait a minute ;)
<BigWhale> The last post on ubuntu-devel-discuss is funny.. The funniest part? I pressed Super-R and I can't unzoom. ;>
<pitti> BigWhale: hm, I think there was a trick with Super+Scrollwheel or so
<pitti> but indeed that doesn't work now
<pitti> a second super+r works, though
<pitti> not very reliably so, though
<smspillaz> didrocks: ok, I can see whats going on now
<smspillaz> (which explains why it is broken under g-s too)
<didrocks> BigWhale: pitti: I removed Super-R anyway in the incoming upload :)
<BigWhale> pitti, I disabled the Enhanced zoom plugin in CCSM ...
<BigWhale> (I often use 16 ton hammers to kill mosquitoes ...)
<pitti> didrocks: aka the "trap" key? :-)
<smspillaz> it checks when the window state changes and regrabs the keyboard based on that. And because we added _NET_WM_STATE_FOCUSED it will re-grab the keyboard when NET_WM_STATE_FOCUSED is added to _NET_WM_STATE and the window is not Withdrawn, Iconified or _NET_WM_STATE_FULLSCREEN or _NET_WM_STATE_MAXIMIZED
<pitti> didrocks: oh, new compiz coming today?
<didrocks> pitti: indeed :-) was removed as a distro patch in the past, but well, as all our patches were removed by upstream when they bundled itâ¦
<smspillaz> so I think I just need to patch it to store when it was maximized or withdrawn / iconified / whatever
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, the one from the ppa
<pitti> didrocks: nice
<didrocks> pitti: + the keybinding changes
<pitti> that's running nicely here
<didrocks> smspillaz: ok ;)
<pitti> didrocks: ah, I lost track of all the FFEs; I'll just let myself surprise which keys break this time :)
<didrocks> heh ;)
<smspillaz> didrocks: fixed
<smspillaz> didrocks: do you want me to just submit the patch upstream ?
<didrocks> smspillaz: nice! yes please ;)
<smspillaz> and give your the b.g.o link ?
<didrocks> right ;)
<didrocks> smspillaz: I guess we'll chceck with him before pushing that to the distro :)
<smspillaz> yeah the patch is a bit ugly but I can't think of a "proper" way to do it that doesn't involve subclassing GtkWindow really
<didrocks> let's see with upstream ;)
<seb128> hey
<smspillaz> hey seb128
<smspillaz> seb128: I've fixed the gnome-keyring issue you had
<smspillaz> seb128: its a bug in gnome-keyring, so I am making a distro patch as the relevant code no longer exists upstream
<seb128> smspillaz, hey, you rock, thanks a lot for taking some time to look at it
<smspillaz> anything to avoid white windows
<smspillaz> I mean
<smspillaz> what ?
<seb128> smspillaz, ok, just give me the diff and I will handle the packaging
<smspillaz> okay
<smspillaz> seb128: I can make an mp into it, its cool
<seb128> smspillaz, your call, I'm happy to take it from there but I'm happy to review a merge request as well
<didrocks> salut seb128 ;)
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<seb128> hey didrocks, pitti
<seb128> how are you?
<didrocks> I'm fine, thanks. Yourself?
<seb128> I'm good thanks
<seb128> robert_ancell, hey!
<pitti> seb128: for bug 969569, I agree with chrisccoulson that we should not migrate theme settings from gconf; themes completely changed, we don't have clearlooks etc. any more. WDYT?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 969569 in gsettings-desktop-schemas "lucid to precise: Ugly desktop after upgrade" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/969569
<robert_ancell> hello
<smspillaz> seb128: https://code.launchpad.net/~smspillaz/gnome-keyring/gnome-keyring.fix_931958/+merge/100563
<pitti> hey robert_ancell, howdy?
<seb128> robert_ancell, how are you? if the european start talking it's time to call it a day? ;-)
<robert_ancell> I reckon!
<seb128> robert_ancell, do you have a minute to talk lightdm, bugs, release and precise? ;-)
<seb128> smspillaz, thanks, on it
<robert_ancell> I had to head out this afternoon so staying a little later.
<robert_ancell> yes
<seb128> robert_ancell, what bugs do you have still on your list for precise?
<seb128> robert_ancell, I've those on my list
<seb128> bug #951597
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 951597 in lightdm "1.1.7 : breaks xsession-errors, no more rotated" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/951597
<seb128> bug #952185
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 952185 in lightdm "~/.pam_environment not parsed when HOME is encrypted" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/952185
<seb128> bug #956848
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 956848 in lightdm "pam_mkhomedir.so fails to create homedir in precise" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/956848
<seb128>  
<robert_ancell> seb128, bug 956848 and bug 951597 but I also need to have a look at bug 952185
<seb128> robert_ancell, does that seems right?
<seb128> ok, good
<seb128> we are in sync it seems ;-)
<seb128> robert_ancell, did you make any progress on the .xsession-errors rotation one? it's impacting on debugging of other bugs so I'm eager to see it resolved ... anything I can do to help?
<robert_ancell> seb128, provide a patch ;)
<robert_ancell> seb128, no, still working on it
<seb128> robert_ancell, lol, rrrrright ;-)
<pitti> robert_ancell: bug 878184  as well? that looks like it's got a branch ready for merging?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 878184 in unity-greeter "Onscreen Keyboard cannot be used to input password in unity-greeter" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/878184
<Saviq> hey guys, what do you think might be responsible for reintroducing bug 878492 ?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 878492 in unity-2d "Keyboard shortcut - F10 shortcut is used to show menu and this is wrong" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/878492
 * smspillaz starts sending email to himself
<seb128> pitti, that's commit to unity-greeter trunk for some weeks
<seb128> commited
<pitti> ah, good
<Saviq> we can confirm gtk apps are affected (but also in gnome-shell, so...)
<robert_ancell> pitti, as seb said
<seb128> Saviq, try asking on #ubuntu-unity
<seb128> robert_ancell, pitti: speaking of unity-greeter I was waiting on an extra fix to land and I wanted to ping mterry about doing a release for it
<robert_ancell> seb128, have you happened to hear from mterry about the much duplicated u-g crash?
<seb128> robert_ancell, which one? speaking of segfault, bug #902698 still gets duplicates
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 902698 in lightdm "lightdm crashed with SIGSEGV in check_stopped()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/902698
<robert_ancell> bug #946674
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 946674 in unity-greeter "unity-greeter crashed with SIGSEGV in background_loader_ready_cb()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/946674
<robert_ancell> I'll assign it to him
<robert_ancell> I saw an indication it might have been due to the glib upgrade
<seb128> robert_ancell, I didn't have it on my list but I will check with him today
<robert_ancell> have been uncovered that is
<robert_ancell> seb128, btw, do you have any opinion on the libgnomekbd/accountsservice we are running?  I had a look at merges for them but they were non-trivial.  Don't know if we're missing out on any important bug fixes though
<seb128> robert_ancell, they are good, I think we can sync libgnomekbd from Debian, I meant to ask pitti about that since he's the one who worked on that package the most recently
<seb128> robert_ancell, accountsservice, upstream went crazy, we should stay on our version
<robert_ancell> oh and libpeas was the same
<seb128> we can probably just get the new version of this one
<robert_ancell> it has quite some changes, and some important apps depend on it so I wasn't sure
<seb128> well if we have no issue with the current version we can as well being conservative
<seb128> robert_ancell, btw thanks for breaking shotwell yesterday :p
<robert_ancell> seb128, also, I looked at aisleriot - it seems to build fine in precise, not sure why we never took it
<robert_ancell> seb128, say what?
<robert_ancell> seb128, well that's ok then - you broke webkit :)
<seb128> robert_ancell, gexiv 0.4.1 changed soname, you overlooked it seems, you didn't rename the binary and shotwell was bailing out on a missing lib
<robert_ancell> ech
<seb128> like ld missing
<seb128> robert_ancell, well at least mine didn't break users :p
<seb128> robert_ancell, but thanks for catching that ;-)
<robert_ancell> seb128, whoops.  We really need to automate that better...
<seb128> robert_ancell, aisleriot -> jbicha has been looking at it
<seb128> I will check with him
<seb128> robert_ancell, well lintian warns you, we need to print lintian warnings in red ;-)
<seb128> robert_ancell, pitti: ok, btw something that might make you happy, mpt suggested we should drop lpi
<seb128> discussion for UDS
<robert_ancell> seb128, it would save us a lot of time
<robert_ancell> seb128, do we have any metrics on how useful it is?
<seb128> robert_ancell, right, and it's limited to some apps and a bit geeky
<seb128> robert_ancell, mpt seems to think it's a geek stuff, the answer tracker got superseeded by askubuntu, we hid the bug stuff in release and access to translations are not stuff normal users are interested in finding in their apps
<seb128> robert_ancell, not sure we have any metrics, that's why I still want a discussion at UDS
<seb128> but yeah, I doubt it's very useful for users
<robert_ancell> seb128, I'd be happy to just notify the list, drop it and then see what happens
<robert_ancell> we can put the patches back quickly if there is a problem
<seb128> robert_ancell, right, I might just mention put a "review delta with upstream and Debian" session for UDS to go through stuff like lpi and control center crazyness and see what we do
<robert_ancell> yeah
<robert_ancell> it's not worth a whole session
<seb128> well, one hour to cover the different topics and maybe worflow etc
<seb128> desktop status update or something
<seb128> or checkpoint
<robert_ancell> seb128, I'd like to tackle UDD again - we need to get to one method of updating packages
<seb128> right, I've the feeling it's not getting any better
<seb128> not sure how much UDD is being worked on
<seb128> like the gvfs import is always outdated and broken and doing those updates a pain still
<robert_ancell> seb128, yeah, if we go full UDD it has to be foolproof
<robert_ancell> seb128, the packaging branches work really well, but they have permission issues and issues with people uploading without updating
<robert_ancell> the full branches have the easily broken issue as you point out
<robert_ancell> no branches is a huge waste of time
<pitti> seb128: ooh
<pitti> seb128: I'll look at libgnomekbd (remaining delta/sync)
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<pitti> seb128: sorry, was stuck in mutt for a bit
<seb128> robert_ancell, my gut feeling is that debian only dirs are still the less painfull for what we do
<robert_ancell> jasoncwarner_, ^ perhaps this is something you can negotiate with the LP people.  Packaging is a big timesink for us, and if they can get UDD in an awesome state we would save a lot of time (=$)
<seb128> but yeah
<seb128> jasoncwarner_, ^ that would be great ;-)
<pitti> I have an idea
<pitti> how about we invent a command that directly fetches the source from the archive?
<pitti> that will _always_ give us the correct version!
 * pitti ducks
<robert_ancell> pitti, the problem is not getting the correct version - the problem is how to update it in an easy manner that provides good visibility of the changes and a better way of annotating what has changed
<pitti> robert_ancell: yes, I know
<pitti> robert_ancell: from my POV, people keep screwing up the pre-applied patches
<pitti> including me
<pitti> this is the single biggest itch I have with those
<pitti> I already set
<pitti> quilt-commit-policy = applied
<pitti> quilt-tree-policy = unapplied
<pitti> but that doesn't help
<pitti> my other itch is that UDD fixes the exactly wrong problem
<pitti> we don't need the upstream bits in bzr, we need our changes in bzr
<seb128> then you get the branches that always get outdated for some reason
<pitti> but our changes are precisely the ones which are not covered by real revision control, but are stuck in quilt patches
<seb128> i.e gvfs currently
<pitti> that too, but that only affects some packages
<pitti> a lot got broken with the .xz switch, I think
<seb128> I'm probably not lucky, I've that every second time I try to deal with a GNOME update in UDD
<seb128> could be
<pitti> I had used UDD for gvfs until it broke
<pitti> since then, classic apt-get soruce and uupdate..
<seb128> yeah
<pitti> yep, libgnomekbd is syncable, doing
<robert_ancell> ok, later guys
<pitti> robert_ancell: good night!
<pitti> seb128: for bug 969569, I agree with chrisccoulson that we should not migrate theme settings from gconf; themes completely changed, we don't have clearlooks etc. any more. WDYT?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 969569 in gsettings-desktop-schemas "lucid to precise: Ugly desktop after upgrade" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/969569
<seb128> pitti, oh sorry forgot to reply to that while catching up with robert ;-)
<pitti> seb128: that's fine; I figured you'd rather use the time to talk to Robert
<pitti> I can annoy you all day :)
<seb128> pitti, I'm fine not migrating the theme, wasn't that distro patch we added? I think upstream doesn't migrate theme, not even the background image
<seb128> but +1 from we for the reasons you listed
<seb128> we->me
<pitti> seb128: ok, so we all agree; I'll have a look at this then
<pitti> seb128: migrating bg image is still fine IMHO
<seb128> pitti, the main reason I wanted the migration is that users running the light theme would still get it after upgrade
<pitti> seb128: yeah, I know, but I don't  think we can do a conditional migration that way :/
<seb128> pitti, http://launchpadlibrarian.net/80328425/gsettings-desktop-schemas_3.1.91-0ubuntu1_3.1.92-0ubuntu1.diff.gz
<pitti> we could add some additional code
<didrocks> yeah, too late for conditional migration :/
<seb128> pitti, just drop dont_reset_themes.patch
<seb128> pitti, not sure if we want to keep the colors and fonts though
<pitti> I'll be conservative and only drop themes
<pitti> fonts are fine
<seb128> ok
<pitti> colors also didn't disappear
<pitti> seb128: I'll merge with Debian while I'm at it
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<seb128> pitti, btw you reintroduce the glib patch for non multiarch gio dir compat when you merged, was that wanted?
<pitti> seb128: it seemed harmless, and not a bad idea for third-party apps, and reduced the delta
<pitti> seb128: do you see a reason to not have it?
<pitti> does it cause error messages or something/
<pitti> ?
<seb128> pitti, it breaks multiarch, image you have an amd64 install and a leftover x86 binary in the non multiarch dir
<seb128> pitti, also it creates confusing leading people to think they can,should use that dir
<seb128> pitti, no big deal but desrt pushed for having it dropped before the lts
<pitti> how would you have a i386 binary in the non-multiarch path of an amd64 system?
<pitti> seb128: ok, I'm fine with dropping it again; I did not have a strong reason for keeping it
<seb128> pitti, because you pull in an i386 binary still installing a .so there?
<seb128> pitti, but yeah maybe in practice that doesn't happen
<seb128> it's just that it's a bit less "clean" and it might lead to confusion to still have that dir listed
<pitti> seb128: ah -- if we have such packages still, then the amd64 package would not work any more if we drop it
<pitti> ("not a bad idea for third-party apps")
<seb128> pitti, no need of an upload for that, I just wanted to check before dropping it, I will drop it again in the next upload then
<pitti> seb128: ok; I have no objections to dropping it again
<seb128> pitti, we have nothing in the archive still using the compat dir no
<seb128> so it's all theoritically and third party discussion ;-)
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<seb128> (I would argue that Debian should drop it as well btw)
<pitti> zgrep usr/lib/gio /tmp/Contents-i386.gz
<pitti> seb128: indeed, Debian doesn't have the old paths any more either; I'll commit that
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<pitti> so we are still at "no ubuntu diff after LTS" :)
<seb128> ;-)
<pitti> seb128: done
<seb128> pitti, danke
<seb128> does anyone know if there is a "reverse that diff" utility?
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<didrocks> seb128: I looked for such one the other day, didn't really find after 5 minutes of looking around
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: hey, how are you?
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson, how are you?
<seb128> didrocks, ok, me neither
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128, didrocks. i'm good thanks, how are you?
<Laney> interdiff can do it
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm good thanks
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: I'm fine, thanks :)
<seb128> Laney, "       To reverse a patch, use /dev/null for diff2."
<seb128> oh, nice
<Laney> seb128: interdiff foo.
<Laney> yes
<seb128> Laney, thanks!
<Laney> :P
<pitti> seb128: so, I guess we can just as well keep the patch
<pitti> as it behaves well if the .so is of the wrong arch
<pitti> but not very important either way then
<seb128> pitti, right, I might still drop it from precise let's see, I read the discussion on #debian-gnome
<seb128> it just feels wrong keeping compat for an old dir we don't use which can create confusion
<seb128> I would prefer the lts to clearly have one clear dir to use and message it correctly
<seb128> though it's a detail at the end
<rickspencer3> I think it's taking me longer to port photobomb to using gir than it took me to write it in the first place :/
<pitti> nobody reminded me about the meeting reminder!
<didrocks> oh!
<rickspencer3> pitti, remember the meeting reminder!
<didrocks> pitti: I do not see anything obviously wrong on bug #970939, seems pygi or python though?
<rickspencer3> and don't do anything like script a cron job, or put an alert in a calendar!
<rickspencer3> </snark>
 * rickspencer3 is desperate for a break from gi.repository tedium
<pitti> rickspencer3: nah, that'd take all the fun out of it
<pitti> didrocks: will look in a sec
<pitti> hmm, after reading last week's gtimelog I did nothing but bug fixing
<pitti> seems for the first time in years I have nothing interesting to put on the weekly report..
<seb128> pitti, doh, meeting reminder!
<didrocks> pitti: don't read the meeting reminer btw, you will get spoiled with the new key changes :)
<didrocks> (once I would write it)
<pitti> didrocks: you mean the new report?
<didrocks> yeah, the incoming report :)
<pitti> didrocks: yeah, not a very useful stack trace; that needs a reproducer
<didrocks> pitti: ok, affecting python-gobject + incomplete?
<pitti> I can't tell from the trace
<pitti> could be a wrong annotation in a library
<pitti> that's the most likely reason
<didrocks> just putting it as incomplete for now then, sticking in oneconf if you want even if that's not the real component
<pitti> didrocks: if you want it off the bug list, just reassign it to pygobjject
<pitti> I'll gladly ignore it there, especially if it's "incomplete"
<didrocks> pitti: no, I don't really care about incomplete, I open them sometimes to see if the reporter didn't sent anything useful and I missed the mail
<Sweetsha1k> pitti: I uploaded a testbuild for bug 969707 btw ...
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 969707 in libreoffice "package python-uno 1:3.4.4-0ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: sub-processo novo script pre-installation retornou estado de saÃ­da de erro 1" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/969707
<pitti> Sweetsha1k: nice, to a PPA?
<Sweetsha1k> pitti: jup, for dist-upgrade testing https://launchpad.net/~bjoern-michaelsen/+archive/libreoffice-precisetest-20120327
<Sweetsha1k> pitti: lets just hope the build doesnt break again because the ppa buildds have to few disc space.
<pitti> Sweetsha1k: for testing it's ceratinly enough to have it build on i386 OR amd64?
<chrisccoulson> does anyone else see bug 971800?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 971800 in firefox "Firefox crashes while trying to delete a bookmark" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/971800
<chrisccoulson> i can't reproduce it, but i fixed a crash yesterday and want to figure out if i fixed that one before i do another upload
<pitti> chrisccoulson: just deleting any book mark?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, no issue there but I don't have lot of bookmarks
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I can delete a bookmark just fine here
<chrisccoulson> seb128, pitti, thanks
<BigWhale> Are there any conventions I should follow for running applications from their local directories? For example you download foo-12.2.tar.gz, extract it and then what?
<chrisccoulson> i'll just assume that he's seeing a crash that i've already fixed then
<Riddell> nessita: there's a new Qt in precise, are you able to test the ubuntuone bits with it?
<Riddell> and if you want to be ahead of the curve I see Forum Nokia are putting Qt 5 packages into their PPA :)
<nessita> Riddell: hi there. Will let our QA team know, thanks for heads up!
<dpm> hi pitti, can we re-enable the Precise langpacks now that the beta is out? (I can do it myself, just want to double-check it's ok)
<pitti> dpm: ah, sure
<pitti> dpm: thanks
<Riddell> dpm: enable in which way?
<dpm> Riddell, we usually disable automatic language pack uploads during freezes, and re-enable them when they're over
<dpm> pitti, cool, done then
<Riddell> oh aye
<desrt> mumble mumble
<cyphermox> seb128: I found out why evolution-dev had a dep on evolution ;)
<seb128> desrt, hey, no, google hangout! ;-)
<seb128> cyphermox, that's what was preventing those ftbfses? ;-)
<desrt> :)
<cyphermox> yeah
<didrocks> hey hey desrt ;)
<seb128> desrt, how are you? get some coffee before mumbling
<desrt> seb128: you assigned me a bug that i already fixed last night :p
<didrocks> desrt: when you get a chance, I still have one request/question on the alt thingy :)
<cyphermox> but I think it would be more correct if it was Depends: libevolution (= $binary:Version) rather than evo
<didrocks> so go get your coffee first! ;)
<seb128> cyphermox, hum, why is evo needed? are those libs which are missing in the evo binary or is something ld loading the evo lib?
<cyphermox> evolution-dev ships the pc files for -leutil and others, which are libraries provided by libevolution
<cyphermox> I think it was still at Depends: evolution because the libraries were split out to libevolution but the dep forgotten or something
<seb128> cyphermox, hum, so yeah, it seems "Depends: libevolution (= $binary:Version)" is about right
<cyphermox> (I mean, in Debian, of course)
<bcurtiswx> good morning
<htorque> desrt: are there some other small leaks you already fixed that i can report? :P
<desrt> yes
<desrt> but only ones that happen on exit
<desrt> ...which is never
<htorque> at least i get some karma points for the report ;-)
<jbicha> heh, now I know why my tracker 0.14 evolution miner build's been failing :|
<didrocks> desrt: not sure if you saw my ping or if you want for your coffee to brew or mumbling like a mad :p
<desrt> i saw your comment
<desrt> but i was too lazy to get up and make coffee
<desrt> you can tell me now if you want :)
<didrocks> ah, dependency issue :)
<didrocks> I see ;)
<didrocks> so, basically, I think that's linked to your comment you did yesterday about Left and Right Alt
<didrocks> basically, if I assign Ctrl + (left) Alt + t to open a terminal
<didrocks> the keys are:
<didrocks> <Control><Alt>t
<didrocks> and it indeed, only work with left key
<didrocks> however, tapping left alt, will show Alt_l
<didrocks> and the same, if we read <Alt> and pass that to the renderer, it will gladly ignore
<didrocks> I tried to look at the "Primay" hack that was done in g-c-c (http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-control-center/commit/?id=7f5733b454e26c882d4e707b57cd03b104f57dd2)
<desrt> so you have a couple of wires crossed
<desrt> there are two things going on -- modifiers and keyvals
<didrocks> but this moved to gtk/gtkaccelgroup.c in gtk
<didrocks> yeah
<desrt> 'control' and 'alt' are the name of modifiers
<desrt> 'alt l' is the name of a key
<didrocks> and the gtk_accelerator_parse_with_keycode only check for modifiers
<desrt> well, the X server sets the modifiers according to the history of keypresses
<desrt> it knows that pressing altl activates the modifier called 'alt' for example
<desrt> (or mod1 i guess it calls it)
<didrocks> right, it's mod1
<didrocks> desrt: so, the funny story is that if you start to assign Alt_L to the key, it won't detect the keypress anymore
<didrocks> it == compiz
<desrt> so that's why i was concerned about this patch
<desrt> it seems like the process of grabbing alt is pretty... intense
<desrt> i mean, from what i've heard of what goes on inside compiz
<didrocks> don't tell me, I heard enough about it ;)
<desrt> i'm not totally sure this is something that can be easily changed
<pitti> seb128: the variety of launchpadlib exceptions in the retracer keeps amazing me :/
 * pitti restarts
<didrocks> It's interesting though, <Alt_L> will treat it again as a modifier by compiz
<didrocks> and seems to work
<seb128> pitti, which one did you get today?
<didrocks> desrt: apart from a hack to change that on the fly in the g-c-c side, I don't see a better solution right now
<pitti> seb128: some httplib error again, unexpected size read
<pitti> bbiab
<desrt> didrocks: so i'm confused.  you'd rather it report <alt> than <alt l>?
<didrocks> desrt: no, I mean, it's reported as Alt_L
<didrocks> desrt: <Alt_L> would work
<desrt> how is this not a problem with other keystrokes?
<didrocks> as it's a keypress and not a modifier, I guess that's why I doesn't get <â¦>
<desrt> <Alt_L> is not a modifier mask, though...
<desrt> unless compiz has some magic
<didrocks> desrt: it seems to have
<desrt> so anyway
<desrt> one thought i had when doing the patch was to report the modifier mask with a zero keyval instead of reporting the keyval with the modifier mask
<desrt> let me test what would happen in this case
<didrocks> desrt: ah, that could work, not sure, but it could yeah (maybe won't show "unactivated")
<didrocks> in the cell renderer
<desrt> disabled, frenchie :p
<seb128> jbicha, hey
<didrocks> desrt: I'll go doing some sport if you continue :p
<desrt> i love it when you and seb do some sport :)
<desrt> interesting
<desrt> keycode 0 gets reported with the label "0x40"
<didrocks> funny value ;)
<jbicha> uh, oops
<seb128> jbicha, hey
<seb128> jbicha, that tracker was not for precise right? ;-)
<jbicha> well I was going to request a FFe for tracker 0.14
<seb128> yeah, I was wondering for a while why you didn't do that earlier ;-)
<seb128> jbicha, I reverted your 2 g-s-d commit btw
<seb128> jbicha, we don't want to build the pkgkit plugin in g-s-d
<jbicha> seb128: I hadn't requested tracker 0.14 earlier because I couldn't get the evolution miner to build
<seb128> jbicha, and the mnemonic changes, that would be changing the strings and resetting translations again, and mpt said mnemonic should be used in menus, he will update the designs next time he work on those
<jbicha> seb128: does building pkgkit break anything? without it, gpk-prefs won't start (not that gpk is supported in Ubuntu any way...)
<seb128> jbicha, I discussed the gpk-prefs issue with upstream he did recon it was a bug on his side and he would fix it
<jbicha> oh ok, thanks for reviewing those changes then
<seb128> jbicha, well enabling the option would add a pkgkit plugin loaded a setting start, slowing down loading, adding uis, and duplicating update-notifier features
<seb128> setting start->session start
<seb128> jbicha, like that code would display bubble about update available and other stuff
<jbicha> I haven't seen bubbles here, but it would at least add more dconf strings so that's probably bad at this point
<seb128> jbicha, well for sure it does an "apt-get update" for you every hour in the background
<seb128> jbicha, i.e see http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-settings-daemon/tree/plugins/updates/gsd-updates-refresh.c
<seb128> " * at startup, after a small delay, force a GetUpdates call
<seb128>  * every hour (or any event) check:
<seb128>    - if we are online, idle and on AC power, it's been more than a day
<seb128>      since we refreshed then RefreshCache"
<desrt> tracking leaks of values created by gdbus is difficult!
<seb128> desrt, oh, you received the hud bugs from htorque, good ;-)
<desrt> glad to hear that my icon thing was indeed the 'big one'
<seb128> hehe
<jbicha> every hour, wow! I wonder why they think that's a good idea
<chrisccoulson> you need to use up your 3G allowance somehow!
<chrisccoulson> :-)
<cyphermox> chrisccoulson: 3G allowance?
<cyphermox> how come I was never told about this? ;)
<desrt> ditto
<didrocks> desrt: do you think it worths spending some time on the gtk side or should I just try doing some workaround on g-c-c (with your patch)
<desrt> didrocks: maybe we could discuss more about what is actually happening in compiz
<desrt> i heard some horrifying story about how you grab all possible key combinations?
<didrocks> desrt: well, TBH, the compiz devs are totally under a big load of other stuff to fix, so I don't think they will have time to look at that TBH
<desrt> i'm not asking for a fix
<desrt> just an explanation about how it's done
<desrt> i assume the way in which we do it now at least approximates our idea of what the best thing to do is
<didrocks> smspillaz: any opinion? ^
<jbicha> didrocks: cool, new compiz :)
<didrocks> jbicha: don't talk about the keybinding change, pitti wants to be surprised and will try to discover them :)
<pitti> heh
<jbicha> lol
<pitti> hey jbicha, how are you?
<jbicha> pitti: causing trouble, you know, breaking string freeze, breaking feature freeze, etc...
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, hey
<kenvandine> hey rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, do you have any docs for GwibberGtk?
<kenvandine> not really, best docs are looking at the gir
<kenvandine> i tried to generate them... but failed
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, so, you had the microblog panel in old gwibber
<kenvandine> i am hoping girafe help there someday
<rickspencer3> do you have something like that in new gwibber?
<kenvandine> yes
<kenvandine> GwibberGtk.Entry
<rickspencer3> hmmm
<pitti> [regression] Invisible resize border is now only 1px wide (LP: #953839)
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, look at entry-python.py in examples/
<pitti> didrocks: ^ oh, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks!
<didrocks> pitti: heh, it was in case you didn't install mutter before ;)
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, i think that example is a bit broken, but it should point you in the general direction
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, where is examples/ ?
<pitti> didrocks: oh argh, ctrl+super+cursor up/down?
<didrocks> pitti: you cheated!
<kenvandine> in the bzr branch
<pitti> these design guys really don't use keyboards, do they *sigh*
 * desrt loves dbusmenu
<didrocks> pitti: long discussion
<didrocks> pitti: but there is a tradeoff and a good news!
<didrocks> pitti: with those keys, we can keep Ctrl + alt + arrows
<didrocks> for ws switching, even next cycle :)
<seb128> desrt, found your leak there?
<pitti> didrocks: how did super+up prevent us from keeping ctrl+alt+arrows?
<pitti> didrocks: or was this part of a bargaining trade? :-)
<desrt> seb128: no.  was finally able to reproduce the issue with hud/nautilus/panel-service eating 100% CPU
<didrocks> pitti: the second option ;)
<seb128> desrt, it's not hard to reproduce, open the properties of a bookmarked folder
<desrt> hud-service is an innocent bystander here.  the problem is that nautilus is changing its menus like crazy
<seb128> desrt, but I'm curious to know about the issue ;-)
<desrt> kill hud-service and the problem continues
<desrt> seb128: ya.  i'm on the case
<seb128> desrt, great, btw the gedit powerpc user tracked the nautilus issue to start in the "use gresources" version as well
<seb128> desrt, so it seems there is something between gresources, appmenu and powerpc
<seb128> desrt, that's lower priority that the bug you are on though ;-)
<pitti> jbicha, seb128: is anyone on the aisleriot FTBFS? (i. e. update to new upstream version or backport fix)?
<pitti> not sure whether we intentionally stayed at 3.2
<pitti> but if we do, we can just backport that commit
<seb128> pitti, not me, jbicha is the maintainer usually
<pitti> our VCS has a 3.3.1 merge stacked up
<pitti> jbicha: ^ do you want to do the 3.3.2 update and upload, or want me to handle?
<pitti> seb128: Colin also wrote some interesting bit about libical (as that's still on your list)
<seb128> pitti, yes it is, but weird, the previous build issue we had was a test failing on armel only, so Colin's comment seem to address another (racy) issue
<pitti> seb128: failed on ppc, too
<jbicha> pitti: we intentionally are staying at 3.2 as we don't want guile-2.0 and guile-1.8 on the CD, there is a new 3.2 release though which we should probably take
<pitti> jbicha: ah, right
<seb128> pitti, do you plan to update glib?
<pitti> seb128: won't manage today any more, but can do tomorrow if needed
<nessita> jbicha: hi there! I just saw your comment on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntuone-control-panel/+bug/956077. I'm a little confused, I thought the doc team was not adding Ubuntu One screenshots to the doc, from another conversation I read regarding a UIFe we asked
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 956077 in ubuntuone-control-panel/trunk "[UIFe] Colour changes for the QT control panel" [High,Fix released]
<nessita> jbicha: did I got that wrong?
<seb128> pitti, I saw you replied about the single include stuff so I was wondering
<seb128> pitti, not needed no, I wanted to say just stack stuff in the vcs if you have some, I'm waiting on an upstream powerpc gresource fix that I want to include in the next upload
<pitti> ack
<nessita> jbicha: I'm happy to provide all the screenshots you need, but I thought you weren't needing them :-/
<jbicha> nessita: we don't have any screenshots to update & it's past documentation freeze, maybe next cycle we'll document it more
<nessita> jbicha: right, so perhaps I misunderstood your comment in the bug report?
<nessita> jbicha: I thought you were pinging about those
<jbicha> nessita: right, I wasn't pinging, it was more "by the way, this doesn't end up needing clearance from docs after all"
<nessita> jbicha: awesome, thanks for the clarification :-)
<kenvandine> popey, your salut bug you filed, seems to be fixed in 0.7.2 but i don't have access to a mac to verify it works with ichat
<kenvandine> it does work with 11.04 and 11.10 clients though
<popey> kenvandine: i upgraded the kids 11.10 machines to 12.04 â¨
<popey> so now I have no way of testing it with the machines I have
<kenvandine> so no ichat anymore?
<popey> oh I have ichat
<kenvandine> i've tested it with 11.04 and 11.10
<kenvandine> and it works
<kenvandine> but not with ichat
<kenvandine> it isn't built yet, but will be soon
<popey> sorry, I'm confused
<popey> âº
<kenvandine> understand now?
<popey> so between what and what do you want me to test? âº
<popey> ichat and..?
<kenvandine> test ichat with 12.04
<popey> oh cool, I can test that easy
<kenvandine> after you get telepathy-salut 0.7.2
<kenvandine> which is building now
<popey> will do
<kenvandine> thx
<kenvandine> today's like the great telepathy release day :)
<kenvandine> all the stable releases are coming for the cycle
<popey> excellent
<pitti> good night everyone!
<kenvandine> good night pitti
 * didrocks waves good evening
<mterry> No meeting I assume?
 * mterry goes back to logging in and out
<kenvandine> mterry, hehe
<kenvandine> fun working on a greeter i guess :)
<mterry> kenvandine, :)  stupid crasher, can't always reproduce, so I have to cycle several times
<desrt> shame didrocks is gone...
 * desrt may have found a much better way of dealing with grabbing alt for the hud...
<seb128> desrt, oh?
<desrt> seb128: go into the mouse control panel
<seb128> desrt, open a bug, duflu might be interested as well
<ogra_> you use a stapler ?
<desrt> enable the "show position of pointer when the control key is pressed" option
<seb128> desrt, that option sucks, it breaks stuff
<desrt> seb128: oh.  it does?
<seb128> desrt, I was pondering for a while dropping it
<desrt> how?
<seb128> desrt, bug #9441
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 9441 in gnome-control-center "the locate pointer option breaks other keybindings" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/9441
<seb128> desrt, 4 digit bug ;-)
<kklimonda> hmm, what can I do to make unity-greeter show a user prompt? setting greeter-hide-users=true in lightdm.conf is not enough - now I only see a guest account
<desrt> seb128: breaks mouse stuff...
<seb128> kklimonda, it should be enough, maybe hide the guest user as well
<kklimonda> ah, greeter-show-manual-login
<bcurtiswx> dobey, any  fixes that you would like a test with?
<kklimonda> I wonder if that one will work
<desrt> seb128: it looks like the code in g-c-c makes no attempt to account for the mouse.  could probably be fixed.
<seb128> desrt, not only mouse
<seb128> bug #783382
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 783382 in gnome-control-center "nautilus malfunctions when using "ctrl-c" to copy a file name with show location of mouse pointer turned on (dup-of: 9441)" [Low,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/783382
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 9441 in gnome-control-center "the locate pointer option breaks other keybindings" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/9441
<seb128> "Select a file in nautilus, press F2, then the file name is automatically selected, press "ctrl-c" to copy the selected file name (not the whole path of file)
<seb128> Case 1: open gedit or leafpad what so ever, press "ctrl-v" to paste, the result is the whole path of the selected file, but I just expect the selected file name."
<seb128> desrt, ^ that's keyboard
<desrt> that's more interesting
<desrt> sounds like a nautilus bug though, to be honest
<kklimonda> seb128: I was following your comment from some lightdm bug, but there seem to be a new config key  greeter-show-manual-login that you have to use :)
<seb128> desrt, or #354790 "default keyboard-shortcut Ctl-Alt-L does not lock screen"
<seb128> desrt, or another bug is that it breaks mute button
<seb128> desrt, look at the dup, there are a variety of issues
<desrt> mute?!
<desrt> hum
<seb128> desrt, #305246
<desrt> you know -- i hate X
<seb128> hehe, who doesn't? ;-)
<desrt> fwiw, i think a lot of the brokenness is caused by the fact that gnome-settings-daemon has a bug
<seb128> kklimonda, hey, maybe you need a new bug, lamont was having similar issues
<desrt> the code for grabbing mute is unaware of the code for grabbing the control key
<dobey> bcurtiswx: not today. hopefully tomorrow i'll be able to figure it out
<desrt> and they have a bad interaction, i bet
<desrt> and they're in the same process with a filter on the same window...
<seb128> desrt, could be yes, but all those grab stuff are non trivial, there is always an interaction with something
<desrt> seb128: i will develop the one true solution :)
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> desrt, get ride of X?
<bcurtiswx> dobey, OK GL :)
<desrt> well, yes :)
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> mterry, hey
<seb128> mterry, got a minute?
<seb128> 3 small questions for you
<desrt> the true true solution is that we have an input manager in the same way that we currently have an output (read: compositing) manager
<seb128> desrt, like only one piece of code dealing with all grabs and dispatching?
<desrt> yes
<mterry> seb128, sure
<desrt> trouble with X is that all the clients are on equal footing and nobody is ever fully in control
<seb128> mterry, hey, how are you?
<mterry> seb128, that counts as #1.  :)
<mterry> seb128, I'm fine
<seb128> mterry, lol, not fair :p
<seb128> mterry, ok, easy ones or hard ones first? ;-)
<seb128> not 2!
<mterry> seb128, hah, easy ones I guess
<desrt> seb128: did mterry tell you about what he discovered the other day?
<seb128> mterry, ok, the side one was, do you have any clue about kklimonda's question, not the first user I see who disable the user list and get "guest" and no "other" field
<seb128> desrt, the earth is round?
<kklimonda> seb128: it works when I also disable the guest account (another bug - the lightdm.conf.example setting for doing that is wrong :))
 * mterry is a slow learner apparently
<kklimonda> seb128: but I'd expect that hiding user list should make the prompt appear
<seb128> kklimonda, that option got added recently
<mterry> seb128, I didn't see his question, but it's fixed in trunk
<seb128> mterry, lol
<mterry> seb128, in service of another fix
<mterry> seb128, I'm going to patch ubuntu this week
<seb128> mterry, is bug #946674 what you work on?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 946674 in unity-greeter "unity-greeter crashed with SIGSEGV in background_loader_ready_cb()" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/946674
<seb128> mterry, ready recent activity it seems so
<mterry> seb128, yeah, I looked at that today.  Have a test package
<seb128> mterry, I told robert_ancell I would ping you about it today
<seb128> mterry, thanks, that was my main question
<mterry> seb128, can't seem to reproduce
<seb128> mterry, side ones now
<seb128> - can we get an unity-greeter release?
<seb128> I want at least the onscreen keyboard fix in
<seb128> fixing that segfault would be nice
 * desrt comes to a realisation
<mterry> seb128, sure, once bug 946674 is resolved, I guess.  I don't know of other bugs extant
<seb128> - why do you need to logout and in? isn't the greeter restarted on user switch?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 946674 in unity-greeter "unity-greeter crashed with SIGSEGV in background_loader_ready_cb()" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/946674
<desrt> i'm writing a program that does experimental things with grabs in X
<desrt> well, it was nice knowing you guys
<desrt> bye
<kklimonda> mterry: can you fix date/lightdm.conf and replace greeter-show-guest with greeter-allow-guest? I've had to grep source to find a correct setting :)
<kklimonda> I guess I should report it so the fix goes to precise before release..
<seb128> like usually I just keep my session running
<seb128> desrt, lol
 * desrt fully expects his keyboard to be non-functioning in the next 30 seconds or so
<mterry> seb128, yeah, but when it does crash, then things get awkward
<seb128> mterry, ok
<seb128> mterry, well I will let you work
<seb128> mterry, oh, could you also change the "if no user list is showed, rename "other" to "username" or something"
<mterry> kklimonda, we have a bad default?
<mterry> seb128, I think it's called "Login" right?
<seb128> mterry, schools don't like have an "other" entry on their login screen, it makes no sense :p
<kklimonda> mterry: no, but the setting from the example.conf does not match what lightdm checks for in the code
<seb128> mterry, bug #960177
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 960177 in unity-greeter "the entry should be named "username" not "others" when hide-users is used" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/960177
<kklimonda> mterry: so without actually checking source code I couldn't disable the guest account in lightdm
<seb128> mterry, you like screenshots I'm sure, https://launchpadlibrarian.net/97576514/username.png
<mterry> kklimonda, k, makes sense
<seb128> mterry, you got assigned that bug, thanks ;-)
<mterry> that's up to date?
<mterry> I coulda sworn it was Login
<mterry> ok
<seb128> mterry, I didn't check but was reported 10 days ago and I didn't see an unity-greeter upload since
<kklimonda> also, could someone take a look at bug 970932? I can't find anyone on #u-unity and it's driving me crazy :(
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 970932 in unity "unity treats windows as belonging to multiple workspaces at the same time" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/970932
<seb128> kklimonda, try #ubuntu-unity again, there are not lot of unity hacker on our channel
<seb128> kklimonda, but that seems a corner case, why would you put stuff on 2 workspaces to start
<kklimonda> seb128: but I don't, unity does it by itself when I use super+arrow to arrange windows :/
<kklimonda> seb128: this may not really be an actual byg
<kklimonda> bug*
<seb128> kklimonda, seems like a compiz bug, try pinging smspillaz when he's around
<kklimonda> ok
<seb128> mterry, one of the dup description points to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/+bug/971437 in case that useful
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 971437 in lightdm "lightdm crash/loop after recent 12.04 beta updates" [Undecided,New]
<seb128> mterry, which claims to be a multi monitor issue
<tjaalton> kklimonda: for me it's moving a such window to the first workspace from the rightmost one every time the display shuts off or so.. highly annoying
<seb128> mterry, could people just confusing a segfault for another one though, I somewhat doubt so many users run dual monitors and the descriptions are inconsistant
<mterry> seb128, someone just reported reproduction steps, I'll try thouse
<seb128> mterry, seems a bit weird, the greeter doesn't handle xml backgrounds
<mterry> seb128, agreed, but maybe just pointing it at an xml file is enough?  the other reproduction steps involved an unreadable file.  so probably something in the path for handling bad backgrounds
<seb128> mterry, oh, I managed to trigger it (once)
<mterry> seb128, yay
<mterry> kklimonda, lightdm.conf fixed, thanks for notice
<seb128> mterry, or maybe not :-(
<seb128> mterry, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/913452/ seems different
<mterry> seb128, yeah...
<mterry> seb128, that's one fear I have about this bug.  The original stack is almost certainly fixed.  I'm working off people's reports of how to reproduce crashers
<seb128> mterry, I created a /tmp/nofile, called SetBackgroundFile() in dfeet and give it "/tmp/nofile", deleted the file then and switched user
<seb128> mterry, which is cheating but assuring accountsservice has a buggy background info
<mterry> sure
 * mterry tries
<seb128> mterry, no, no luck getting it again
<mterry> seb128, no crash for me
<seb128> dunno, it's not happening for me
<mterry> seb128, I did get a crash earlier today....  once.  Maybe this is some weird one time thing
<seb128> mterry, I guess ask on the bug to somebody to replace unity-greeter by a valgrind wrapper calling the real binary
<seb128> better to get them to have an unstripped binary though
<seb128> maybe do a deb with a unity-greeter.real and a script calling valgrind, do it unstripped, add the deb to the bug
<mterry> Or... if this is a one-time thing, try in a VM
 * mterry boots one up
<seb128> chrisccoulson, that scribus bug, fixing the mimetype would fix the issue, nautilus would still prefer a subtype handler than installing
<chrisccoulson> seb128, oh, right. i didn't think of that ;)
<seb128> wouldn't*
<seb128> chrisccoulson, but I often gets annoyed at firefox claiming being an xml handler ... do anyone really use it like that?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm pondering if we should drop that
<chrisccoulson> seb128, it's actually pretty good at viewing xml files ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, well, who views xml files?
<seb128> 95% of types are subtypes of xml not meant to be viewed as xml
<seb128> like opened a gtkbuilder file as xml, not useful ;-)
<seb128> opening
<seb128> I would prefer a glade file to be open in gedit as text rather than firefox as xml
<seb128> chrisccoulson, same for firefox being a text/plain handler ... are those .desktop mimetype useful for firefox itself or just for i.e nautilus?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, like I doubt many users want firefox as a text editor
<chrisccoulson> yeah, you couldn't use it as a text editor
<desrt> seb128: i think i have a modification that fixes some issues
<desrt> no more nautilus crashes, for example
<seb128> desrt, context? I was let on grabs but I can't link that to nautilus ;-)
<desrt> the key is for the thing doing the keyboard grab to freeze mouse events and acquire a mouse grab when a key grab is established
<chrisccoulson> seb128, actually, application/vnd.scribus doesn't sub-class any other type, so if the type existed on the system and scribus wasn't installed, then nautilus wouldn't open it in anything else
<desrt> and if you see a button click, immediately release all grabs
<desrt> the existing code was not doing that -- so if you continued to use the mouse while holding control you could get yourself into some situations where other things attempted to accquire grabs (like nautilus for its popup menu) and would fail
<seb128> chrisccoulson, so it's an easy fix, move the definition to shared-mime-info
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, basically that should work
<desrt> seb128: although now there are probably issues with touchscreens or something else not covered by pointer grabs...
<seb128> chrisccoulson, thanks ;-)
<seb128> desrt, could be, I learnt that trying to be smart with grab is harder as it seems ;-)
<seb128> desrt, you always have something somewhere doing weird stuff and screwing you
<desrt> seb128: there seems to be a complete lack of good documentation about what all of these things mean
<seb128> chrisccoulson, btw I need to annoy you about tb one of those days ;-)
<chrisccoulson> excellent :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, it's twice recently that he frozen on a "email sent" dialog
<seb128> urg, "it froze"
<chrisccoulson> seb128, imap?
<chrisccoulson> and with 11.0.1?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, smtp
<chrisccoulson> oh, yeah ;)
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, weird think is that it wrote "email sent", froze, I forced quited it, and after reopening the email was not in the sent box and only half writen recovered in draft
<seb128> chrisccoulson, so maybe I sent the same email twice after rewriten the end I'm not sure :p
<chrisccoulson> seb128, has it happened with 11.0.1 yet?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, does it ring any bell?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, no, but I have it like once a week
<chrisccoulson> seb128, hopefully it is bug 962631 then ;)
<seb128> if I get it with 11.0.1 I will let it frozen and ping you
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 962631 in thunderbird "Thunderbird 11 hangs against Exchange 2007" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/962631
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I don't use exchange ;-)
<chrisccoulson> they just did an out-of-band update to fix that
<seb128> chrisccoulson, you must confuse me with some ms guy :p
<seb128> chrisccoulson, ok, thanks
<chrisccoulson> seb128, oh, the title sucks. it doesn't need exchange. it affects anyone with an imap server ;)
<chrisccoulson> in fact
<chrisccoulson> if you look at the stacktrace there, it locks up in smtp code ;)
<chrisccoulson> so, i should correct myself - "it affected anyone using smtp" ;)
<chrisccoulson> i'd put money on that being your issue :)
<micahg> fixed :)
<mterry> seb128, reproduced!  After enabling manual login. Not sure if related yet, but I have a coredump, so I'm going to sit here and spin a bit
<seb128> mterry, great
<seb128> chrisccoulson, let's see, how much beer do you bet? ;-)
<desrt> seb128: warning: the next time you see chrisccoulson will be in the USA and beer bets will be repaid in the local currency.  are you sure you wish to proceed?
<chrisccoulson> heh
<seb128> desrt, thanks, you just reminded me I need to get a new esta my expired in january
 * desrt is so happy to keep his fingerprints to himself at the airport
<chrisccoulson> on the subject of beer, i keep waiting for this to be in stock again: http://www.brewdog.com/product/sink-the-bismarck :-)
<seb128> lol
<seb128> you need to hard stuff to keep up with firefox ;-)
<chrisccoulson> yeah :)
<chrisccoulson> g'ah, i'm sick of people reporting firefox crashes without any useful information on them
<chrisccoulson> do people not read the bug reporting instructions?
<desrt> chrisccoulson: hey
<desrt> chrisccoulson: i was using firefox earlier and it crashed
<desrt> know anything about that?
<chrisccoulson> lol
<mterry> seb128, already fixed in trunk :)
<desrt> seb128: so this bug with copying the full name in nautilus appears to be fixed
 * mterry prepares releases of lightdm/unity-greeter
<desrt> like, even the existing code on ubuntu seems working fine...
<mterry> seb128, is robert still working?
<chrisccoulson> oh, wow, only in the UK would "Weed Makes Everything Better" be trending on twitter!
<chrisccoulson> oh, scribus has flickering menus too!
<desrt> are we too far along now to just cancel dbusmenu entirely? :)
<desrt> i mean... we can get a freeze exception for that, right?
<chrisccoulson> lol
<chrisccoulson> we should replace it with XEMBED
<desrt> would probably cause fewer issues
 * desrt thinks about that for a moment
<desrt> okay.  probably not.
<chrisccoulson> oops, what did i do ;)
<desrt> actually
<desrt> would probably cause fewer issues, indeed
<desrt> if we were clever about it...
<seb128> mterry, oh, great
<seb128> mterry, robert? no he said he got this michael guy doing all the work for him so he can just relax on the beach ;)
<mterry> seb128, :)  didn't know if I should roll lightdm for him or if he had short-term plans for it
<seb128> mterry, wait, he was still tracking the .xsession-errors rotating bug when I spoke to him this morning
<mterry> seb128, ah cool
<mterry> seb128, thanks
<seb128> mterry, you can do unity-greeter though, I think you won this one by working on it ;-)
<seb128> mterry, oh, speaking of which, you won gtk by doing that ubuntu-local patch and revert uploads, enjoy!
 * seb128 hudes
<seb128> hides
<mterry> seb128, yar, I don't think he's active in u-g much
<mterry> seb128, dammit
<seb128> ;-)
 * kenvandine hudes too 
<mterry> seb128, if anything, those uploads show I *shouldn't* own gtk+  ;)
<seb128> kenvandine, you want bogs? :-P
<mterry> seb128, the ol' "do something bad enough, you won't be invited back" strategy
 * kenvandine hudes more
<seb128> kenvandine, ;-)
<seb128> kenvandine, it's not my fault, I got so fan of the hud that I typo it :p
<seb128> mterry, hehe, nice try ;-)
<kenvandine> hahaha
 * mterry still raises the hud accidentally about thrice a day
<kenvandine> hehe... mterry said thrice :)
<mterry> kenvandine, I'm trying to bring it back  :)
<kenvandine> :-D
<kenvandine> if anyone can do it... you can!
<mterry> people say once and twice all the time.  why not thrice?!
<kenvandine> indeed...
<Sweetshark> jasoncwarner_: ping?
<jasoncwarner_> Sweetshark: hey
<Sweetshark> jasoncwarner_: did you see my comment wrt bug 969707?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 969707 in libreoffice "package python-uno uses libreoffice-core in preinst" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/969707
<jasoncwarner_> Sweetshark: wip?
<jasoncwarner_> Sweetshark: oh, fix comitted?
<jasoncwarner_> nice
<Sweetshark> jasoncwarner_: well, a fixed version was uploaded to a ppa today. the build just finished on i386, but still runs on amd64. I will test a dist-upgrade run tommorrow and if successful, will throw it over the fence.
<jasoncwarner_> Sweetshark: gotta love those fast builds ;) nice, thanks
<Sweetshark> jasoncwarner_: well, local builds are faster (and developer builds are a _lot_ faster), but to test dist-upgrades I try to be as close to the "real thing" as possible.
<micahg> Sweetshark: shouldn't those instances be breaks instead of conflicts
<Laney> Hm, doesn't the Breaks/Conflicts give you a high enough version to run sync_extensions?
<jasoncwarner_> bryceh RAOF TheMuso don't forget about the meeting for today. Add agenda items, if any. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2012-04-03
<bryceh> jasoncwarner_, ok
<jasoncwarner_> Also, please update with your weekly updates...thanks !
<bryceh> oops, looks like themuso's editing.  /me waits
<TheMuso> bryceh: Done now.
<bryceh> anyway nothing exciting from me, just usual bug work
<bryceh> jasoncwarner_, anything more needed from RAOF or I on the LTS position hiring front?
<jasoncwarner_> bryceh: no, thanks I passed it to veronika (assuming you are both still good with him)
<bryceh> yep
<achiang> hm, did ubuntu mono change recently? seems... smaller now
<jasoncwarner_> bryceh: robert_ancell RAOF and TheMuso FYI...no agenda items....so....keep on hacking :)
<RAOF> achiang: You're noticing the new fontconfig, I think.
<achiang> RAOF: hm, the changelog for 'fontconfig' isn't really that informative?
<achiang> RAOF: or did it come from some other package?
<RAOF> achiang: Sorry, it's freetype.
<achiang> RAOF: thanks
 * achiang reads #972223 but doesn't really grok it
<achiang> oh well
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-04-04
<smspillaz> desrt: we don't grab all possible keycombos
<smspillaz> desrt: we only grab keycodes that we have actions bound do
<smspillaz> unfortunately, XGrabKey on a modifier key has some nasty side effects. namely that the grab activates when you press the modifier key and doesn't deactivate until its released
<jbicha> "we don't grab all possible keycombos yet" << fixed it for you ;)
<smspillaz> desrt: so the reality is that the grab will remain when you press another key in addition to an already grabbed key
<desrt> smspillaz: i have a workaround for that
<smspillaz> that being said in compiz we use some trickery to ensure that the grab is released when you do that
<desrt> when you get the first unexpected key you XAllowEvents ReplayKeyboard and drop the grab
<smspillaz> yep
<desrt> then the app that would have seen it in the first place gets to see it
<smspillaz> yep
<desrt> with the original timestamp, even
<desrt> it ends up just looking like a processing delay
<smspillaz> there is a race condition though
<desrt> if you use Sync grabs there shouldn't be...
<smspillaz> where the passive grab activates
<desrt> the server is supposed to freeze the queue
<smspillaz> hmm maybe that's been fixed
<smspillaz> I'm not really the one who works on it
<desrt> i have some sample code that i'm going to try to hammer into something meaningful over the next day or two
<desrt> reviewing ted's dbusmenu work just now though
<smspillaz> desrt: ok, we're using GrabModeSync for keyboard mode
<smspillaz> in XGrabKey
<smspillaz> that makes sense
<desrt> should be fine, then
<desrt> the x server freezes the keyboard event queue until you tell it what to do with XAllowEvents
<desrt> you only see the very first keystroke
<smspillaz> indeed
<smspillaz> I hate grabs
<desrt> (ie: the one that caused the establishment of the passive grab)
<desrt> the X grabbing infrastructure is actually pretty sensible if you understand it
<smspillaz> its sensible but like
<desrt> my biggest gripe with it is that it chooses to solve a problem that's entirely too complicated
<smspillaz> just the entire concept
<desrt> and some different engineering/design choices could have resulted in a *much* easier to understand system
<smspillaz> indeed
<smspillaz> desrt: oh I found a funny problem with gnome-keyring the other day
<smspillaz> speaking of grabs
<smspillaz> desrt: it was a bug that happened in compiz and
<smspillaz> *gasp*
<smspillaz> gnome-shell but not
<smspillaz> *gaps*
<smspillaz> mutter
<smspillaz> because gnome-keyring would establish a grab
<smspillaz> on its input window
<desrt> time to port unity-2d to mutter, clearly
<smspillaz> errm
<desrt> ah, well
<smspillaz> s/mutter/metacity/
<smspillaz> well
<smspillaz> no sorry
<desrt> you should know that that's not a bug that happens in gnome-shell either
<smspillaz> it would establish teh grab
<desrt> it happens in canonical's patched version of gnome-shell
<smspillaz> when the window became unfocused
<smspillaz> desrt: only happens because
<smspillaz> gnome-shell and compiz support _NET_WM_STATE_FOCUSED
<smspillaz> and there was this bitshift bug
<smspillaz> XD
<smspillaz> drove me a bit nuts
<smspillaz> spent ages thinking
<smspillaz> "there has to be something we're doing wrong"
<smspillaz> then it broke in g-s and then I instantly thought "nope, application must be broken"
<smspillaz> its always hard to tell these things unfortunately, at the boundary of the application and wm, who is actually doing weird things
<jbicha> desrt: are we stuck with gnome-control-center not being able to write gsettings keyboard shortcuts for precise?
<desrt> jbicha: unless you want to run the upstream ppa
<jbicha> ok, just checking
<jbicha> desrt: now I have to figure out whether to make the gnome-shell keyboard shortcuts match unity's new ones from bug 969235
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 969235 in metacity "Keyboard shortcuts - Update some window management shortcuts to use "Ctrl + Super" instead of just "Super" " [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/969235
<jbicha> it's that whole "do people want upstream or do they want better integrated with Ubuntu" question again
<kklimonda> smspillaz: hey, do you have a moment?
<smspillaz> how long is a moment ?
<kklimonda> smspillaz: could you take a look at bug 970932? I wonder if it's compiz related issue
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 970932 in unity "unity treats windows as belonging to multiple workspaces at the same time" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/970932
<smspillaz> kklimonda: you need to get it added to the priority list
<smspillaz> talk to either didrocks or seb128
<smspillaz> sorry, I get told off if I work on stuff that's not on the priority list
<smspillaz> (http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/PrecisePriorities
<kklimonda> wow, this list is big for that close to the release :(
<smspillaz> which is why getting new stuff on to it requires a process :)
<kklimonda> damn beaurecracy, seb128 definitely told me to ping you. I'll ask him tomorrow to get it on the list ;)
<BigWhale> Good Moring.
<BigWhale> moring
<BigWhale> whatever.
<RAOF> BigWhale: Good mooring :)
<BigWhale> RAOF, I'm just pretending to be awake. :)
<TheMuso> pitti: Just to make sure I understand you completely re at-spi2-atk and pyatspi and transitional packages, could you please tell me whether what I've done in these diffs is correct to solve the problem? Note other changes from debian are included as well: http://people.canonical.com/~themuso/at-spi2-atk.diff and http://people.canonical.com/~themuso/pyatspi.diff.
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> TheMuso: hey
<pitti> TheMuso: not quite -- you need to make the C/R/P versioned, not drop them completely
<pitti> TheMuso: i. e. (<< your_new_version_that_introduces_the_transitionals)
<TheMuso> pitti: ah right, makes sense, thanks.
<micahg> shouldn't that be B/R/P since it's versioned?
<TheMuso> Not sure about now for the transitional stuff, but these newer packages contain the same filenames and paths as the older at-spi stack packages.
<TheMuso> Hense why they currently have conflicts.
<micahg> TheMuso: that should be breaks for file moves
<TheMuso> There are no file moves.
<TheMuso> 2 packages have the same paths/files.
<micahg> TheMuso: oh, ok
<pitti> TheMuso: "newer packages" == the at-spi2 stuff, you mean?
<TheMuso> pitti: yes
<pitti> TheMuso: becasue the transitional at-spi and python-pyatspi packages should be empty (except changelog, etc.)
<TheMuso> pitti: and I was referring to libatk-adaptor/python-pyatspi2 having the same filenames as the at-spi and python-pyatspi packages that we currently have in the archive.
<pitti> TheMuso: right, hence we need the B/R/P
<TheMuso> right
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> bonjour didrocks
<didrocks> guten morgen pitti, how are you?
<TheMuso> pitti: I thought you couldn't have versioned provides...
<pitti> TheMuso: right, just versioned B/R I mean; sorry
<TheMuso> Right, just checking.
<pitti> didrocks: quite fine, thanks!
<pitti> didrocks: how about yourself?
<didrocks> pitti: seems everything's fine. Answering emails and the world didn't fall apart. Also, the QA labs is back on shape :)
<pitti> ooh, is it?
<pitti> indeed, nice!
<didrocks> pitti: was blocking all merge requests yesterday, wasn't fun ;)
<TheMuso> pitti: Ok, if you wouldn't mind having a look at those above linked diffs once again just to make sure I've not msised anything, that would be appreciated. If all looks ok, I'll upload.
<pitti> TheMuso: not (<< ${binary:Version}) please
<pitti> TheMuso: just whichever version you are about to upload
<pitti> TheMuso: it does not contain a changelog, so I can't say
<pitti> TheMuso: that (fixed, static) version is from which on at-spi will be transitional; it does not change any more
<TheMuso> ah ok now I'm with you.
<TheMuso> pitti: Ok please check again. I don't want to have to upload and have it not work. :)
<pitti> TheMuso: looks fine now; you should just add (LP: #966845) to the changleog
<pitti> TheMuso: thanks!
<TheMuso> that was the plan, I just want to get the important bits right. :)
<TheMuso> s/was/is/
<TheMuso> Ok uploaded, and hopefully fixed.
<pitti> didrocks: do you think it would be ok to move the privacy settings from "system" to the "personal" category in control-center?
<pitti> didrocks: I think that would be appropriate, and fix the UI overflow introduced by the new landscape applet
<pitti> didrocks: I didn't find an existing bug, will create one, but wanted to get your thoughts first
<didrocks> pitti: would make sense I guess. Let's do it then!
<didrocks> pitti: do you want me to change this?
<pitti> didrocks: hang on, need an UIFE bug and some signoff first
<didrocks> you have an overlow on de?
<didrocks> I don't have any in fr
<pitti> didrocks: bug 973130, has a screenshot
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 973130 in gnome-control-center "[UIFE] Adding landscape installer caused UI overflow" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/973130
<pitti> didrocks: odd, what is missing for you in the "system" category?
<didrocks> pitti: ah, it's because of landscape. It seems I don't have installed
<pitti> I guess we need to wait for jbicha to come online
<didrocks> right
<jasoncwarner_> pitti and didrocks on the landscape thing, I upgraded a test system today and I didn't get landscape in the system settings. I have it on my two main systems, but not sure why I didn't get it on the test system
<didrocks> landscape-client-ui-install is seeded and a recommends of ubuntu-desktop
<didrocks> I didn't get it on upgrade as well
<pitti> strange; ordinarily updates should get new recommends
<didrocks> ah, I got the new package on 2012-03-23
<didrocks> with an apt-get upgrade
<didrocks> (well new "ubuntu-desktop")
<didrocks> that's why the new recommends wasn't installed, as it wasn't in a dist-upgrade
<didrocks> I tend to apt-get upgrade first
<didrocks> then, apt-get dist-upgrade and look the output
<didrocks> thinking of it, it's an issue with all the new recommends, like, in this case, you get the package recommending a new one on upgrade and not dist-upgrade
<jasoncwarner_> hmm...so that means we wouldn't get it if we did just an upgrade for that particular one?
<pitti> sudo apt-get install --fix-policy
<pitti> jasoncwarner_, didrocks: that will install all the recommends you skipped during "upgrade"
<didrocks> pitti: already did that and confirms it did it :)
<seb128> hey
<pitti> it's a seb!
<pitti> aisleriot FTBFS fix uploaded
<didrocks> salut seb128 :)
<seb128> hey pitti didrocks, how are you?
<pitti> seb128: quite fine, thanks!
<didrocks> seb128: I'm fine, thanks, you?
<pitti> seb128: would you be able to create a desktop team status page tomorrow evening, and send it to u-release@?
<seb128> didrocks, I'm good thanks (busy reading @tech discussions)
<seb128> pitti, yes, I can do that, I don't work friday by tomorrow night is fine ;-)
<kklimonda> seb128: smspillaz told me that my bug has to go to the http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/PrecisePriorities before he can take a look at it ;)
<seb128> kklimonda, ok, fat chance then
<seb128> kklimonda, that's really a corner case issue for multiple workspaces users and you are the first to complain, I doubt it lands on any priority list ;-)
<kklimonda> seb128: huh, am I really the only person to use super+left with multiple workspaces? because that's how I hit the bug :(
<kklimonda> (well, that's one of the ways)
<seb128> pitti, bug #973130 I reassigned to the activity-log-manager, nothing we can do from the control center side
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 973130 in activity-log-manager "[UIFE] Adding landscape installer caused UI overflow" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/973130
<seb128> kklimonda, can you describe your bug? using super-left doesn't make the left pinned dialog show on the next ws or in its alt tab here
<kklimonda> seb128: yeah, I think I was describing two bugs at the time
<kklimonda> seb128: I've went to rewrite the report yesterday evening
<seb128> kklimonda, what's the number again?
<kklimonda> https://launchpad.net/bugs/970932
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 970932 in unity "unity moves windows between workspaces when you try switching to them" [Undecided,New]
<seb128> kklimonda, I can't confirm, I did that:
<seb128> - open gedit on ws
<seb128> - open nautilus on ws2
<seb128> - go to ws1, focus gedit, super-left
<seb128> click on nautilus in the change, it moves me to ws2
<seb128> click on something running ws1
<seb128> it brings me back to ws1
<seb128> gedit didn't move nor anything else
<kklimonda> seb128: do you use super+left to move gedit to the left part of the screen?
<seb128> kklimonda, " - go to ws1, focus gedit, super-left"
<kklimonda> ah
<kklimonda> sorry, still drank my first coffee yet ;)
<seb128> kklimonda, you will need to come with as exact sequence to reproduce the bug on a guest session
<seb128> your description is not good enough, or it's specific to something on your config
<kklimonda> seb128: is your launcher set to hide? I've written steps I took to reproduce it in the guest session in the bug 970932
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 970932 in unity "unity moves windows between workspaces when you try switching to them" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/970932
<seb128> kklimonda, no, it's always on (which is the default)
<seb128> kklimonda, no, I can't reproduce in a guest session using your steps but I use unity staging ppa so maybe it's already fixed in trunk
<kklimonda> ok, I'll update to the staging and see if it's fixed for me :)
<Sweetshark> micahg: I cannot exclude the possibility, that they might also work with breaks. But if that is changed, it would need to be changed at debian to keep the delta small. And debian is less than convinced of giving this a try.
<Sweetshark> micahg: And conflicts->breaks would be of theortical gain only as we already have conflicts to 3.4 for essential libreoffice packages inplace, so the limitations on the upgrade order are already inplace.
<Sweetshark> micahg: Also there is a good chance that conflicts: are actually needed and breaks: isnt enough. The whole layout of the libreoffice binaries (libraries paths etc.) got simplified a lot between 3.4 and 3.5 (moving libs around) and there are quite a few maintainer scripts to cope with that. So lowering the requirement to Breaks: might introduce problems in cornercases -- something I dont want to risk this short before the release.
<kklimonda> damn, still happening on a guest account.. I'll test it on a netbook later, maybe it has something to do with nvidia driver (which is a very long shot) :/
<pitti> didrocks: do you know about a bug report that opening dash and typing does not type into teh dash, but the nautilus desktop readahead search?
<didrocks> pitti: not that I noticed. Is that the first time you open the dash?
<didrocks> or everytime?
<pitti> didrocks: hm, could be
<pitti> I don't use it that often
<didrocks> pitti: as the first time you open it, there is the lenses loading, that can impact some race on focusing maybe?
<pitti> didrocks: re (sorry, had 1-on-1)
<didrocks> no worry :)
<pitti> didrocks: so, it's plausible that it only happens the first time
<pitti> didrocks: anyway, seems you aren't aware of it, so I'll just file it if I can reproduce it more reliably
<didrocks> pitti: I restarted my session and didn't get it, but if it's racy, can be related to computer speed
<didrocks> yes please :)
<popey> pitti / didrocks clean boot on my machine. pressed "Super" then typed "hello". The "h" is on my desktop in a nautilus thing in the bottom right, the "ello" is in the dash
<didrocks> gord: ^
<popey> machine was idle, some time after boot up, core i7, fast ssd, so not a 'slow' machine
<didrocks> gord loves this kind of focus dealing, he did it for the HUD and dash already :)
<popey> haha
<popey> tbh I was pretty quick at typing 'hello', but it is certainly possible to trigger it
<didrocks> popey: also please file a bug and add that to the bug list we are waiting for (upstream tests regressions)
<popey> mostly does it the first time, less so if you "super"+wait a fraction of a second+ type
<didrocks> popey: can you cook that list with sil2100's results, please?
<popey> I can't today, on holiday
<popey> about to go afk all day
<didrocks> popey: ok, I'll ask sil2100 directly then :)
<popey> please do!
<Sweetshark> grmbl. update-manager ignored my ppa during the upgrade. why?
<pitti> didrocks: we got an ack for bug 973130
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 973130 in activity-log-manager "[UIFE] Adding landscape installer caused UI overflow" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/973130
<pitti> didrocks: do you know what to change, and want to/can handle it?
<didrocks> pitti: can do, sure :)
<didrocks> will report it upstream then
<pitti> didrocks: merci beaucoup
<didrocks> pitti: mais de rien ;)
<didrocks> you were quick to assign it (just got spamm by the email) ;)
<pitti> so long, need to leave
<didrocks> ttyl pitti!
<pitti> working offline in the train this afternoon, and holiday tomorrow
<pitti> see you all next Tuesday, enjoy your Easter holidays!
<didrocks> pitti: oh, enjoy your long week-end then ;)
<Sweetshark> pitti: what was the way to simulate a do release upgrade with a ppa enabled all the time? The AllowThirdParty=yes doesnt seem to cut it
<didrocks> Sweetshark: 12:57:33           <-- | pitti (~pitti@213.9.93.70) a quittÃ© (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net)
<didrocks> Sweetshark: too late ;)
<Sweetshark> *grmbl*
 * Sweetshark weakly shakes angry old man fist.
<seb128> chrisccoulson, you should conflicts on non compatible locale binaries or something, it's not the first time I upgrade tb and get it in english because I didn't pick the locale-fr binary in update-manager ;-)
<chrisccoulson> who wouldn't want to use english? ;)
<chrisccoulson> actually, i should correct myself
<chrisccoulson> it defaults to "american" rather than "english" ;)
<seb128> ;-)
<chrisccoulson> we should fix that
<seb128> default to french with an hard depends you mean?
<seb128> yeah, I agree!
<chrisccoulson> heh
 * didrocks prepares a French version of Unity for chrisccoulson :)
<chrisccoulson> thanks!
<seb128> chrisccoulson, well, ignore me, I guess I'm the only one too lazy to download 150mb updates a day and who picks up partial upgrades in update-manager ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: stop cherry-picking the love, takes all of the delivery :)
<seb128> didrocks, I would if Sweetshark stopped pushing 90mb of libreoffice binaries to download only to fix a control typo
<chrisccoulson> lol
<chrisccoulson> i should do the same for firefox and thunderbird too!
<chrisccoulson> ;)
<didrocks> seb128: I would love as well, it's not a download speed issue here, but install one with high level i/o :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, you do but yours are "only" 23mb ;-)
<seb128> wououh, french tb again! ;-)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, on the good new side still no tb hand on sent since 11.0.1
<Sweetshark> seb128: hey, that wasnt only fo the typo!
<chrisccoulson> that's good :)
<Sweetshark> seb128: although it was more than 90MB, so the contribution of the typo might be roughly 90MB
<seb128> Sweetshark, lol
<Sweetshark> seb128: but I hear, you want to review my next upload.
<seb128> where is mvo? we really need delta downloads
 * Sweetshark makes notes.
<seb128> waouh, ajmitch is still active ;-)
<seb128> didrocks, did you get other people to complain about the unity staging ppa being seen as an untrusted source by update-manager?
<ajmitch> seb128: hm what?
<seb128> it's 3 times I try to desactivate, reactivate the ppa or refresh the index
<seb128> ajmitch, nothing, just good to see you doing uploads ;-)
<ajmitch> heh
<didrocks> seb128: no. Well, it's really an untrusted source in fact :)
 * ajmitch has done a few for precise :)
<didrocks> seb128: I think people using the ppa are more using the CLI
<didrocks> seb128: you do have the ppa keys?
<seb128> ajmitch, yeah, I just noticed looking to my changes box, I skipped all the haskell stuff :p
<seb128> didrocks, I guess so, I've the ppa configured for some months, it usually works fine ... I guess it's rather a mvo issue
<ajmitch> all the haskell stuff was boring syncs anyway :)
<didrocks> seb128: either that or a ppa one
<didrocks> like launchpad not signing well the Release file
<Sweetshark> seb128: I was only half kidding, reviewing the upload is greatly appreciated
<seb128> Sweetshark, what upload? you mean looking to your diff to see if I spot errors? I don't think I know enough about lo for that ;-)
<Laney> ajmitch crossed back over from the other side last Halloween
<seb128> Laney, hey, how are you? thanks for the "default app selection" UDS topic email ;-)
 * ajmitch was so looking forward to another round of banshee vs rhythmbox at UDS, too :)
<Sweetshark> seb128: you still might spot typos like "libreofficeu-core" that I miss because I autocomplete after libreo...
<seb128> hehe
<Laney> seb128: good thanks. no worries - i promised to raise it at the time :-)
<jbicha_> isn't it about time for another Firefox vs. Chromium debate or have people just got bored?
<seb128> jbicha_, hey ;-)
<jbicha_> seb128: good morning
<seb128> jbicha_, how are you?
<chrisccoulson> jbicha_, have you seen the plans for the chrome UI? ;)
<chrisccoulson> ie, drop gtk
<seb128> chrisccoulson, oh, they copy firefox then :p
<chrisccoulson> seb128, no, they are switching to their new aura framework
<chrisccoulson> http://www.chromium.org/developers/design-documents/aura-desktop-window-manager
<seb128> isn't firefox having its own rendering stuff as well anyway?
<seb128> like aren't they moving away from cairo?
<Sweetshark> seb128: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/99774571/libreoffice_1%3A3.5.1-1ubuntu2~ppa1_1%3A3.5.1-1ubuntu5~ppa1.diff.gz <- thats the debdiff
<chrisccoulson> seb128, the only thing they don't use cairo for is the 2d canvas atm
<chrisccoulson> although, i think the plan is to stop using cairo for all content
<Sweetshark> seb128: ah, forget that, the debdiff is against ubuntu1, not ubuntu4. :/
<seb128> chrisccoulson, "The goal is to produce a new desktop window manager and shell environment with modern capabilities" <- wth, isn't chromium a web browser?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, is that chrome os stuff?
<jbicha_> Why's Chrome got to be a GTK3 hater?! ;)
<seb128> jbicha_, who isn't :p
<seb128> I think I'm slightly a GTK3 hater as well when they say stuff "nobody use GTK out of GNOME so we don't care about keeping compatible behaviours"
<didrocks> seb128: it's the base for their future OS
<seb128> didrocks, is that different from Chrome OS?
<didrocks> seb128: no, from my readings the past few days it's the new architecture for Chrome OS
<didrocks> seb128: it's just called "Chromium OS"
<didrocks> (not sure if they will have one based on FLOSS and another with extra content as with the browser)
<seb128> didrocks, ok
<seb128> "interesting"
<mdeslaur> chrisccoulson: whoops: http://www.linuxuser.co.uk/opinion/5-problems-with-ubuntu-12-04-part-1-unity-dash-usability-issues/
<mdeslaur> chrisccoulson: is it too late to add "email" somewhere in the thunderbird desktop file or what not? :P
<chrisccoulson> do people really type "email" rather than "mail"?
<chrisccoulson> i can't believe that nobody has reported that, even though it's been the case for a while
<chrisccoulson> it was the same in oneiric too
<mdeslaur> chrisccoulson: you type "mail" for "email"?
<mdeslaur> heck, I probably would have typed "e-mail"
<chrisccoulson> well, i don't typue anything. i already know what to look for. but i'm just surprised that nobody has ever mentioned this as an issue before
<mdeslaur> chrisccoulson: there used to be a big "email" icon in the default dash...that went away not too long ago
<jbicha_> chrisccoulson: not many people knew about keywords until it was posted on the planet
<seb128> chrisccoulson, firefox not using gettext is a pain though, it means it's not easy to translate the .desktop or keywords :-(
<seb128> well firefox or tb
<jbicha_> did the dash in 11.10 even support keywords? I know I added some to gnome-games but that was more intended for Software Center searching
<seb128> jbicha_, it did
<seb128> jbicha_, X-GNOME-Keywords by then
<seb128> but only gnome-control-center was using some
<Sweetshark> seb128: 3.5.1-1ubuntu5 uploaded to chinstrap. please review and sponsor.
<seb128> Sweetshark, did I sign for that? ;-)
<Sweetshark> seb128: oh, apropos sign ...
<seb128> Sweetshark, you will ask me to write on your wikipage next? ;-)
<Sweetshark> seb128: you disclosed my evil plan!
<Sweetshark> seb128: now they are signed too.
<seb128> Sweetshark, what are signed?
<Sweetshark> seb128: the *.changes file and the *.dsc ;)
<seb128> Sweetshark, oh, I didn't ask you to sign the chinstrap, I was wondering if I said I would review,upload lo, but I guess since pitti is not around I've to do it ;-)
<seb128> Sweetshark, I will do that in a minute
<desrt_> happy wednesday
<Sweetshark> seb128: unless didrocks gets cocky like last time ;)
<seb128> desrt, happy thursday
<desrt> seriously?  awesome!!
<didrocks> happy friday? :)
<desrt> happy april 1st?
<seb128> desrt, well it's good friday (is that how you call it?) this week so tomorrow is friday, i.e end of work week :p
<desrt> ya.  i guess that makes sense.
<desrt> as for didrocks... i don't know what he's on about
<seb128> I start hating vcses or didrocks dunno
 * didrocks looks seb128 in an angry way :)
<seb128> each time I want to push a change to gnome-control-center I get a
<seb128> bzr: ERROR: These branches have diverged.  See "bzr help diverged-branches" for more information.
<seb128> i.e people keep commiting to g-c-c while I'm working on it :p
<didrocks> seb128: bzr rebase FTW!
<didrocks> seb128: but I got it, I'll stop working then ;)
<didrocks> and will write "as required by seb128â¦" :p
<jbicha> didrocks: happy Friday then!
<didrocks> jbicha: \o/
<seb128> graaaa, I screwed up my work totally
<seb128> it was jbicha not didrocks who commiting to gcc under my feet
<desrt> if it's thursday, i wonder if that means we get to not have the team meeting
<desrt> jbicha: good job!
<didrocks> seb128: tell me once you rebased, so that I can push before you do for more fun ;)
<seb128> didrocks, I will rebase on friday
<seb128> :-p
<jbicha> how about we reassign all g-c-c bugs to seb128?
<chrisccoulson> how about we reassign all bugs to seb128?
<didrocks> seb128: well, remember? I'm here on Friday AND Monday, so you will have to work on week-ends to avoid that! :p
<jbicha> chrisccoulson: +1
<chrisccoulson> heh
 * seb128 hides
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: I have a handy script for that if needed ;)
<chrisccoulson> nice :)
<dupondje> Brasero is broken? Gives me the 2,76MB free for a CDR ...
<seb128> dupondje, could well be, it's a buggy software without a maintainer upstream for over a year
<bcurtiswx> good morning
<chrisccoulson> nice, https://areweslimyet.com/ !
<seb128> desrt, https://launchpadlibrarian.net/99845092/Stacktrace.txt does it make any sense to you? or is that again schemas install issues?
<desrt> sure wish i knew what the ?? was :)
<desrt> what process is this?
<seb128> desrt, hud-service
<seb128> desrt, bug #972868 sorry
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 972868 in indicator-appmenu "hud-service crashed with signal 5 in g_settings_get_value()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/972868
<seb128> desrt, https://launchpadlibrarian.net/99926744/Stacktrace.txt is similar
<desrt> so i changed the name of a key in the schema
<seb128> or not
<desrt> will we get a retrace on this?
<seb128> desrt, oh, so maybe old process still running
<desrt> seb128: shouldn't matter
<desrt> the compiled schemas db is opened when the process starts
<seb128> desrt, we got a retrace
<seb128> desrt, g_settings_schema_key_init (key=0x7fff7a05a930, schema=0x1a6bd00, name=0x40d220 "end-drop-penalty")
<seb128> end-drop-penalty
<desrt> yup
<desrt> so the only way that could happen is if the new hud-service gets started in the middle of an upgrade
<Sweetshark> ricotz: ping?
<desrt> ie: before the new schema database gets compiled
<seb128> desrt, sorry I gave the wrong url first
<seb128> desrt, https://launchpadlibrarian.net/99859391/Stacktrace.txt
<seb128> desrt, that's the retraced version
<desrt> seb128: so this would happen 100% reliably if you did a hud search in the middle of an upgrade between those two versions
<seb128> ok
<desrt> and would otherwise be impossible
<seb128> desrt, did I tell you how much I hate gsettings for such issues :p
<desrt> seb128: or apt/dpkg?
<desrt> when will we have our atomic upgrades?
<seb128> desrt, well gsettings for not being robust to any real world issues
<seb128> but yeah, better upgrades would be nice
<desrt> seb128: like using your system in the middle of an upgrade?
<seb128> desrt, anyway, thanks
<desrt> if you do that, you're gonna have a bad time :p
<seb128> desrt, right
<seb128> desrt, the other one seems a real bug, I assigned it to you
<seb128> bug #973203
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 973203 in indicator-appmenu "hud-service crashed with SIGSEGV" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/973203
<desrt> uh oh
<seb128> #0  0x000000000040b7e0 in hud_token_list_distance (haystack=0x7f6a2c0013a0, needle=0x1584520, matches=0x0) at /build/buildd/indicator-appmenu-0.3.96/./src/hudtoken.c:319
<desrt> uh oh
<desrt>     cost = hud_token_distance (haystack->tokens[0], needle->tokens[0]);
<desrt> SegvReason: reading NULL VMA
<desrt> that's a NULL dereference, right?
<seb128> desrt, I think it is yes
<desrt> so i think that could be caused by an application that has a menu item with no label...
<desrt> like, a label of ""
<desrt> oh.  shit.
<desrt> i think that might be caused by typing a single space character into the hud, actually
<desrt> you'd end up with zero needles that way...
<seb128> desrt, indeed, typing space segfault the hud-service :p
<didrocks> confirmed here ;)
<desrt> NICE
<seb128> desrt, archive testing for the win ;-)
<desrt> okay.  that's a pretty obvious fix :)
 * desrt will have something in a few minutes
<desrt> https://code.launchpad.net/~desrt/indicator-appmenu/no-search-tokens/+merge/100801
<desrt> seb128: looks like a did a bit too good a job of stripping spaces :)
<desrt> anyway -- testing appreciated, of course
<seb128> desrt, please make sure that get into today's tarball ;-)
<seb128> desrt, I will test to confirm it fixes the bug for me
<Sweetshark> should I assume, neon 0.29.6-2 to be synced to precise still? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/neon27
<Sweetshark> because I assume that would break libreoffice http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=667043
<ubot2> Debian bug 667043 in libneon27-gnutls "libneon27-gnutls: Breaks bzr-svn (via subvertpy): undefined symbol ne_ssl_context_get_flag" [Serious,Open]
<ricotz> Sweetshark, pong
<Sweetshark> ricotz: sooo, just wanted to ponder if you would join the Hackfest in Hmaburg, AFAIK there is still some travel budget available ...
<ricotz> Sweetshark, hi, this sounds really nice, but i think i cant :\ -- i am getting busier lately
<desrt> hamburg hackfest?  sounds delicious!
<Sweetshark> ricotz: oh, bummer.
<ricotz> Sweetshark, yeah, sorry
<Sweetshark> desrt: heh
<Sweetshark> ricotz: np, just would have been nice ;)
<seb128> Sweetshark, libreoffice uploaded, the debdiff seemed fine to me (but doh, slow to download lo and debdiff versions :p)
<Sweetshark> seb128: well, you are in training now, and 3.5.2 final will be out tommorrow if no natural desaster strikes our mirrors, so guess what I will ask of you tommorrow ;)
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> desrt, your fix works for me confirmed
<desrt> seb128: i gotta say... thanks for managing my interaction with launchpad :)
<seb128> desrt, lol, yw ;-)
<seb128> mterry, hey
<mterry> seb128, hello!
<seb128> mterry, good work on the unity-greeter 3 confirmations that the bug is fixed on the bug and another one who had the greeter segfaulting in loop confirmed the update bring it back to a working state
<mterry> seb128, yar glad to see, especially as reporters on that bug were starting to suggest outlandish fix scenarios  :)
<seb128> ;-)
 * chrisccoulson legs feel like jelly
<seb128> chrisccoulson, doing exercice?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, finished now though
<seb128> chrisccoulson, what do you do? running?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, biking. i think my knees would break if i ran
<mterry> kenvandine, that gwibber merge this morning... is that a bug in vala?
<kenvandine> i think it is a gee bug
<kenvandine> which i am working around
<kenvandine> i want to debug that a bit more
<kenvandine> could be a vala bug, but looking at the generated C i think it is right
<didrocks> jbicha_: please think about unreffing the gsettings settings object when adding one :)
<kenvandine> mterry, i also want to look at gee 0.7.2 and see if it is affected
<kenvandine> might be fixed already
<mterry> kenvandine, well, change seems harmless, assuming it fixes the issue.  Might warrant a comment in code, because otherwise that coding pattern is odd and liable to be removed accidentally in future.
<kenvandine> mterry, ok, i'll add a comment along with the bug i file against libgee
<kenvandine> i plan to do that today
<kenvandine> this was a bandaid :)
<mterry> kenvandine, sure.  marked the merge approved
<kenvandine> it does seem to work around it
<kenvandine> it never tries to use the iterator if it is empty
<mterry> kenvandine, I've never used libgee.  How do you find it?
<chrisccoulson> right, time to make apport attach crash ID's to firefox bugs now
<chrisccoulson> i'm fed up with asking people for them :)
<mterry> chrisccoulson, heh
<kenvandine> mterry, what do you mean? find libgee?
<mterry> kenvandine, how do you like it?
<kenvandine> love it
<kenvandine> much better than the built in support for lists and stuff
<mterry> I was always wary of adding another random library depends.  But maybe if it's awesome...
<kenvandine> it is a must imo
<kenvandine> and we already have stuff using it
<kenvandine> unity used to, when it was vala
<kenvandine> libunity does
<mterry> kenvandine, sure, in Ubuntu it's not a random library dep.  But as an upstream it is a bit.  I wonder if any GNOME apps use it
<kenvandine> ah, true
<kenvandine> well fedora and opensuse never complained about it as a dep for gwibber
 * mterry waits for glib to get containers
 * mterry goes afk for a bit
<chrisccoulson> hmmmm, https://crash-stats.mozilla.com/report/index/33a6191e-99ab-4acc-a889-0660c2120404 :(
<chrisccoulson> i hope that's the same issue i fixed yesterday
<cnd> seb128, I need to debug something in nautilus, so I started checking out lp:ubuntu/nautilus
<cnd> it says the branch is out of date
<cnd> I don't know if that's something you have control over
<cnd> I realize now that debcheckout is what I really want to use, so it grabs the desktop team's repo
<cnd> but I thought you would be interested to know about lp:ubuntu/nautilus
<seb128> cnd, thanks, you can open a bug against "udd" if you want on launchpad, those keep happening which is one of the reasons we don't use lp:ubuntu for desktop packaging
<cnd> ok
<seb128> cnd, I'm sure there are several other ones, I'm not interested enough to chase them down to have them break again next week though
<cnd> ok
<seb128> cnd, what issue do you work on? (just curious)
<cnd> seb128, when I use a touchscreen and touch on the desktop, nautilus is grabbing the core pointer and not ungrabbing
<cnd> which locks up the desktop
<seb128> cnd, ok
<micahg> Sweetshark: the problem is versioned conflicts makes dpkg work harded and as libreoffice is a core package, that might complicate upgrades, if it all works, great, but it's something to keep in mind
<micahg> s/harded/harder/
 * didrocks waves good evening
<cnd> desrt, if I wanted to log messages from somewhere within nautilus, how should I do it?
<cnd> I tried adding g_critical()s
<cnd> and hoping stuff would appear in ~/.xsession-errors
<cnd> nm, I'll ask in #gtk
<Sweetshark> micahg: well, the conflicts are only against outdated oneiric packages for which a newer version is known to exist in precise (from the same source package that is), so it is pretty safe. and yeah, I did full dist-upgrade test runs with the new upload in a ppa.
<micahg> Sweetshark: release upgrades are usually the most difficult
<Laney> Sweetshark: Wasn't the Conflicts added to (attempt to) make sync_extensions work? If so, I don't understand why those calls were removed from the preinst.
<micahg> Sweetshark: dist-upgrade isn't a release upgrade
 * Laney braves the downpour
<chrisccoulson> seb128, so, i need a "Keywords" field in the desktop file, right?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, oh yes you do ;-)
<chrisccoulson> seb128, and before precise, it used to be "X-GNOME-Keywords"?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I wouldn't bother before precise, it was added as X-GNOME-Keywords in oneiric and nothing used it (unity supported it though)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, http://standards.freedesktop.org/desktop-entry-spec/desktop-entry-spec-1.1.html if you need a reference
<seb128> Keywords "A list of strings which may be used in addition to other metadata to describe this entry. This can be useful e.g. to facilitate searching through entries. The values are not meant for display, and should not be redundant with the values of Name or GenericName. "
<chrisccoulson> thanks
<seb128> chrisccoulson, while you are at it, can you update the unity list stuff to be spec compliant?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, oh, whats wrong with it?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, spec is http://standards.freedesktop.org/desktop-entry-spec/latest/ar01s08.html it got approved this cycle as official as well
<seb128> chrisccoulson,
<seb128> X-Ayatana-Desktop-Shortcuts=Compose;Contacts
<seb128> [Compose Shortcut Group]
<seb128> Name=Compose New Message
<seb128> TargetEnvironment=Messaging Menu;Unity
<seb128> Actions=Compose;
<seb128> [Desktop Action Compose]
<seb128> Name=Compose New Message
<seb128> OnlyShowIn=Unity;
<seb128> ups
<seb128> chrisccoulson, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/915015/
<seb128> chrisccoulson, basically
<seb128> chrisccoulson, the pastebin is easier to read ;-)
<chrisccoulson> seb128, ok, thanks
<seb128> chrisccoulson, thank you for fixing those ;-)
<seb128> kenvandine, hey
<kenvandine> hey seb128
<seb128> kenvandine, ocrete was mentioning that our pidgin farsight,farstream patch might need to be updated
<seb128> kenvandine, can you look at it?
<kenvandine> just talked to him :)
<seb128> kenvandine, yeah, he went for the query it seems and I was waiting on a channel discussion ;-)
<seb128> kenvandine, you are on it then, all good
<seb128> kenvandine, ocrete: thanks
<kenvandine> i don't like touching pidgin :)
<seb128> kenvandine, you touch it you maintain it!
<kenvandine> i gotta stop touching packages :)
<seb128> kenvandine, no no, we like it this way ;-)
<kenvandine> mterry, that gwibber merge you reviewed turns out doesn't really work around the problem and it has been fixed in the 0.7 series
<kenvandine> i need yet another work around :)
<mterry> kenvandine, :)
<kenvandine> i don't want to backport that fix to 0.6.x
<mterry> kenvandine, ok
<cnd> I can't remember who it is that develops lightdm
<cnd> can someone remind me?
<kenvandine> cnd, robert_ancell
<cnd> kenvandine, ahh, thanks
<kenvandine> and probably the one with the most knowledge about it that is actually awake right now is mterry
<kenvandine> mterry, i assume you have touched lightdm in your unity-greeter adventures :)
<seb128> cnd, robert_ancell is .au based, should be only in a couple of hours
<seb128> kenvandine, you should make you fix a lightdm bug, I got told you are getting short of sources to maintain :p
<mterry> kenvandine, sure
<seb128> we should*
 * mterry agrees with seb128
 * kenvandine hides
<mterry> cnd, did you have a question? I might be able to help
<cnd> mterry, we think we see some memory corruption in the X server
<mterry> :(
<cnd> it would be handy if we could start lightdm with a pre-started X server running under valgrind
<cnd> or something like that
<mterry> k, let me see how that might be done
 * mterry looks at code
<seb128> cnd, can't you just rename X to X.real and create a shell wrapper X calling valgrind X.real?
<seb128> cnd, that's what I do usually for system services
<cnd> seb128, hmm... yeah, that might work
<cnd> I'll give it a go
<mterry> cnd, you should also be able to set the seat property xserver-command in lightdm.conf
<cnd> mterry, ahh, that sounds like exactly what I want to do
<chrisccoulson> seb128, updating the desktop file for the fd.o spec whilst ensuring that it still works on older releases is a pain ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, oh, right, you always have that fun job with firefox
<chrisccoulson> i managed it though :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, well you made me read the automake documentation to fix your totem bug so it's just fair :p
<chrisccoulson> heh
<chrisccoulson> do i need to add "e-mail" as a keyword, in addition to "email", or is unity clever about that?
<chrisccoulson> seeing as mdeslaur would search for the former, just to be awkward ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, unity is not clever
<seb128> well for that
<chrisccoulson> :(
<seb128> the hud is, but the dash isn't
<mdeslaur> chrisccoulson: also add "interwebs" and "googles"
<seb128> chrisccoulson, oh, and add "free porn" to firefox.desktop
<mdeslaur> hehe
<chrisccoulson> mdeslaur, i was thinking of adding "google" to firefox actually
<chrisccoulson> do you think i should?
<mdeslaur> hahaha
<seb128> chrisccoulson, would google be unhappy about that?
<chrisccoulson> i'm not sure. i can't see why not
<chrisccoulson> i like the "free porn" idea though
<seb128> chrisccoulson, it's like "should we add "word" to libreoffice writer"
<seb128> but not quite :p
<seb128> because I think microsoft might not like this one
<chrisccoulson> i'll add "Chrome" to the firefox one
<seb128> well word is a word, "excel" is an interesting one
<chrisccoulson> :-)
<mdeslaur> meh, just add "word processor, word, processor" :)
<seb128> hehe
<mdeslaur> "libreoffice, is made to, excel"
<seb128> ;-)
<jbicha> mdeslaur: the Dash, Software Center, etc. should be smart enough to show you word and/or processor without Keywords needing to comma separate the terms
<mdeslaur> jbicha: oh, hehe, that was just a tongue-in-cheek example...I'm not aware of how that works
<mdeslaur> jbicha: so just having word processor in the description would be enough for "word" to come up?
<jbicha> I think translators should definitely keep some English words in there too, for instance typing Help into the Dash in localized Ubuntu installs should show yelp but probably doesn't
<jbicha> mdeslaur: I don't deal with Unity more than I have to, but I think it does :)
<mdeslaur> cool
<aquarius> If I have an app which would like to schedule a task to run regularly, as a user, how should my app set that up? Editing the user's crontab programmatically seems a bit clunky, but running a daemon all the time to schedule the tasks itself seems like overkill
<micahg> aquarius: /etc/cron.* entries?
<aquarius> micahg, that's running as root, not as the user, which means my app would need to be suid root to do it :(
<micahg> aquarius: ah, is it just one non-root user or any real user on the system could use it?
<aquarius> micahg, any user on the system might run the app, and that app should then run something regularly for that user
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-04-05
<bryceh> anyone know if there's a way in apport hooks to make the bug private?
<jbicha> TheMuso: ping
<TheMuso> jbicha: pong
<jbicha> TheMuso: do you use accerciser?
<TheMuso> jbicha: Occasionally yes.
<jbicha> TheMuso: does it work in Precise?
<TheMuso> For what I need it for, yes.
<TheMuso> WHich is usually not much.
<jbicha> it's not working here, bug 973842
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 973842 in accerciser "accerciser crashed with ImportError in /usr/lib/pymodules/python2.7/accerciser/icons.py: No module named pyatspi.constants" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/973842
<TheMuso> jbicha: Oh right, there was a slight issue with a recent pyatspi upload, make sure you have 2.4.0+dfsg-0ubuntu3.
<TheMuso> I only uploaded that a few hours ago, but its built and should be published now, if not soon.
<jbicha> TheMuso: thanks, it's working better now :)
<TheMuso> Great.
<TheMuso> and np.
<didrocks> good morning
<Sweetshark> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/915271/comments/61
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 915271 in libreoffice "package libreoffice-core 1:3.4.4-0ubuntu2 failed to install/upgrade: rmdir: failed to remove `usr/lib/libreoffice/basis3.4/program/': Directory not empty" [Critical,Fix released]
<micahg> Sweetshark: that's bug spam :)
<micahg> Sweetshark: you can file a launchpad support request or ask in #launchpad for it to be removed
<Sweetshark> micahg: i dont mind it, i find it funny this time around (and the bug is closed anyway).
<Sweetshark> micahg: would be different, if there would be more of it.
<bkerensa> diwic: In regards to Bug #969621 removing the line does not make the jack work
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 969621 in alsa-driver "[Dell Inspiron N411Z] Headphone Jack will not produce audio but internal will" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/969621
<BigWhale> Greetings.
<davidcalle> kenvandine, ping
<seb128> davidcalle, it's like 4am for him
<davidcalle> seb128, good point :)
<seb128> davidcalle, while you are around I've read some user comments about the video lens scope being english sources, do you know if that's "translatable"?
<davidcalle> seb128, it's not, the list of sources is queried from a server when the scope starts. The server answers a list based on the IP to avoid websites blocked in your region. But that's it, no language support (server side decision, I don't really know why).
<seb128> davidcalle, ok, thanks, who is managing the server? online services?
<davidcalle> seb128, yes
<seb128> davidcalle, thanks
<davidcalle> seb128, np
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<didrocks> hey chrisccoulson, how are you?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, how are you?
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128, didrocks. i'm good thanks, how are you?
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: I'm fine, thanks ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm good, it's friday! :p
<chrisccoulson> lol
<seb128> kenvandine, hey
<Sweetshark> http://blog.documentfoundation.org/2012/04/05/the-document-foundation-announces-libreoffice-3-5-2/
<Sweetshark> package is already compiling.
<Sweetshark> (first time we catch up with the announcement.)
<didrocks> we can see that pitti is on holidays, he only updated one package today :)
<seb128> didrocks, well, he replies to some emails as well :p
<didrocks> yeah, but only few reply, what's happening. Souds like he really enjoys his holidays to not be more active! :)
<seb128> didrocks, I'm wondering if that gtk upload using proposed made me waste 3 bugs to the precise count btw
<seb128> while pitti got one which his one upload to precise :p
<didrocks> seb128: well, I'll loose some 50 bugs again with the next unity/compiz upload if that can help you feel better :)
<seb128> didrocks, we might catch up on you at this rate! ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: right, and I find that totally unfair :p
<seb128> didrocks, yeah, I know, it's like working on a saturday when others don't ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: that's sooooooooooooooooooo easy. What a deception you go to this easy path ;-)
<seb128> or friday, or whatever tomorrow is
<seb128> didrocks, sorry :p
<didrocks> 27 on my 47 test failed on OneConf because my trivial change wasn't that trivial ;)
<jibel> could anyone look at bug 966294, it breaks installation of precise on hardware or reassign to ubiquity if you think the problem lies there.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 966294 in gstreamer0.10 "Ubiquity loops forever from ubiquity_webcam_play" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/966294
<matsubara> hi there, since ~2 days ago after an apt-get update && apt-get upgrade, empathy contact list shows up empty for me. It seems to connect to the network but the contact list is never updated (Here's a screenshot: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/z692c277mpkormh/sJHYfvVqkX/empty-empathy-contact-list.png). Could someone help me debug this?
<dupondje> Some small question about unity. How can I make all 'indication' (like empathy messages and so) show on Primary screen ?
<seb128> (it's questions and complain afternoon here?)
 * seb128 hides
<dupondje> we are testing the new features ;)
<seb128> jibel, good luck for finding somebody before the long w.e
<seb128> matsubara, try asking on #empathy maybe
<seb128> dupondje, try asking on #ubuntu-unity but I don't think there is
<matsubara> thanks seb128
<matsubara> seb128, hmm there's only one person on that channel. Are you sure that's the right one?
<seb128> matsubara, try #telepathy, I though they had a #empathy, maybe it's on irc.gnome.org though
<matsubara> thanks!
<jibel> seb128, a long w.e that's plenty of time to fix this bug :)
<seb128> jibel, nice try ;-)
<seb128> jibel, we don't have any gstreamer hacker, it would be better to find somebody to workaround it or make the installer robust to webcam issues
<seb128> jibel, I would argue that it's an installer bug in any case it's getting blocked by issues with a webcam
<hallyn> oh hey!  i think super key is working for me today!
<hallyn> not sure if it's bc of latest updates, or if not having a background changes the timing
<chrisccoulson> g'ah. i hate distro patches
<chrisccoulson> can we ban them?
<hallyn> hm, super-up has stopped workign for maximize
<dobey> chrisccoulson: ban everything! :)
<mdeslaur> chrisccoulson: sure, as long as we ban upstreams that don't want to accept ubuntu-specific patches :)
<ogra_> didrocks, poke
<chrisccoulson> mdeslaur, there's normally a good reason for them to not want to accept them ;)
<mdeslaur> chrisccoulson: I'll refrain from commenting on that :)
<mdeslaur> chrisccoulson: can I call you Chris "I like fuzzy firefox fonts" Coulson? :)
<kenvandine> jbicha, i am updating your ubuntu-wallpaper branch for precise
<didrocks> ogra_: hey hey (sorry, it's becoming more and more pingy here ;))
<ogra_> heh
<ogra_> didrocks, i was wondering if there is any compiz branch that has the patches from debian/patches applied
<didrocks> ogra_: what do you mean? some kind of full source branch?
<ogra_> producing the gles patch works fine from bzr brnaches, but i cant apply it as the top level patch in the package since there are the quilt Ã¼patches
<ogra_> the quilt Ã¼patches get in my way since it seems the gles patch touches files they touch too
<didrocks> ogra_: ah, so it exit 1 on bzr bd-do
<didrocks> right?
<desrt> seb128: can you backport http://bugzilla-attachments.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=211392 as a vendor patch and test?
<jbicha> kenvandine: thanks, I wasn't going to get to that until tonight
<ogra_> well, i dont use bzr b-d atm
<seb128> desrt, yes
<ogra_> but yes, i get quilt errors
<desrt> thanks
<kenvandine> jbicha, np
<seb128> desrt, yw
<didrocks> ogra_: what I tend to do is:
<didrocks> ogra_: add the patch in debian/patches
<kenvandine> jbicha, i would like a review of my branch though :)
<didrocks> not list it in the series file
<didrocks> bzr bd-do
<didrocks> -> all other patches applies, I'm in a full-source tree
<didrocks> then add the patch (in the series files) and refresh/do what is needed
<didrocks> exit 1
<jbicha> kenvandine: sure
<didrocks> oupss
<didrocks> exit 0 ;)
<ogra_> hmm
<ogra_> my prob is that i cant *create* the patch
<ogra_> because the quilt patches are out of tree
<jbicha> yeah, exit 1 isn't as much fun
<didrocks> ogra_: they gave you a source file, not a patch?
<ogra_> i have the linaro compiz bzr tree and i have compiz-core
<ogra_> i can produce a diff between these trees
<didrocks> that should give you what we can call "the linaro patch"
<ogra_> but that diff cant be used in the package since the quilt patches inside the package change files the gles patch touches as well
<didrocks> (btw, all is conditionnally built, yeah? only applying on armel as we told)
<ogra_> well, that will need some more package changes (you made your package a quilt (3.0) paqckage but didnt make any use of --with quilt)
<didrocks> ogra_: well, I think they should work on what ubuntu provides and fixing the patch to apply?
<ogra_> well, thats me then :(
<didrocks> ogra_: why using --with quilt?
<chrisccoulson> heh, https://twitter.com/#!/SolihullPolice/status/187917191822327808
<didrocks> ogra_: it's a source 3 package
<didrocks> no need for that
<ogra_> didrocks, else patches you add to debian/patches and the series fiel wont get applied at build time
<ogra_> only during unpack
<ogra_> which wont help much with arch specific patches ;)
<didrocks> ogra_: well, if you use --with-quilt, it will try to apply *again* the patches that were applied at unpack, isn't it?
<ogra_> well it is clever enough to not do that ;)
<ogra_> the metadata has the info that they are already applied
<didrocks> ogra_: but, the unpack knows on which arch it is, right?
<didrocks> ogra_: it's not using the arch trick in debian/patches/<arch>.series?
<ogra_> not if i cross build ;)
<didrocks> or whatever it is, I don't remember :)
<didrocks> ogra_: come on! :p
<didrocks> ok starts to make sense then ;)
<didrocks> ogra_: no worry for those changes then ;)
<ogra_> series.arch doesnt work without heavy hacks apparently
<didrocks> so, generating the patchâ¦
<ogra_> i tried that the last days
<didrocks> ogra_: FYI, I'm taking trunk tomorrow
<didrocks> yeah, let's do it at build-time then
<ogra_> my issue is that i cant create a clean patch since linaro doesnt build off a tree that has the quilt patches applied
<didrocks> ogra_: snapshotting, that will remove a big patch we have (the lim stuff)
<didrocks> ogra_: so we only have 3 quilt patches right now
<ogra_> right
<didrocks> ubuntu-config.patch is the configuration, shouldn't matter for this patch
<didrocks> ccp_plugin is a 3 lines patch, easy to integrate
<didrocks> workaround_broken_drivers as well
<didrocks> there is no easy way to reconcile your patch with those ones?
<didrocks> (in the bzr bd-do projection)
<ogra_> dunno, i think the best way would be if linaro worked off a tree that has the quilt bits applied before they even start to make changes
<didrocks> because if you are using two branches that are different and not making the right diff, you can take other fixes that happened in trnk
<didrocks> and that already applied
<didrocks> right
<ogra_> i see no other way to cleanly put our patch on top
<didrocks> and in a reliably way
<didrocks> they should merge latest trunk
<didrocks> (that we will snapshot)
<didrocks> ogra_: btw, did you speak with skaet about that? I would prefer her ack seeing that it's happening in the finale freeze week
<ogra_> well, she is aware though i think i have to apply it this week
<didrocks> ok
<kenvandine> jbicha, https://code.launchpad.net/~ken-vandine/ubuntu-wallpapers/lp-863509-package-old-wallpapers/+merge/100988
<Laney> how do you ensure upgraders keep their old wallpaper package installed?
<seb128> Laney, we don't and it's an annoying issue
<Laney> i can't think how you can do it with package dependencies
<seb128> Laney, but not very solvable
<Laney> unless they are marked manually installed
<Laney> i suppose the release upgrader can do i
<Laney> t
<seb128> yeah, I wanted to check with mvo
<seb128> but he's off this week
<kirkland> I'm hoping I just have something mis-configured in my 12.04 desktop
<kirkland> but most of the time that I hit alt-tab to switch between applications
<kirkland> the unity launcher pops up
<kirkland> looks like it's the alt that's triggering that
<kirkland> is there *any* way I can fix that?
<seb128> kirkland, is that 3d or 2d?
<m4n1sh> seb128: there?
<seb128> m4n1sh, sort of, why?
<m4n1sh> there is a bug logged by someone
<m4n1sh> https://bugs.launchpad.net/activity-log-manager/+bug/967056
<seb128> m4n1sh, there but about to go for some exercice, I've a few minutes though
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 967056 in activity-log-manager "The privacy section should be renamed, oneiric users think confidential data is sent because there is no option to inhibit this" [Undecided,New]
<m4n1sh> what about this?
<seb128> m4n1sh, dunno, try pinging JohnLea or the design guy, or open an ayatana-design component on the bug
<m4n1sh> okay
<seb128> but the forum guys are just randomly complaining, I'm not sure it makes change to change the lable
<m4n1sh> yes. just bringing to your notice
<jbicha> kenvandine: http://paste.ubuntu.com/916224/
<jbicha> kenvandine: I guess those were actually mistakes in my original merge, it was a pretty big patch though
<kenvandine> jbicha, Copyright.txt had been removed in your branch
<kenvandine> it was redundant
<kenvandine> i thought i had fixed that conflict
<seb128> time for exercice, bbiab
<jbicha> kenvandine: well it was listed on line 221 of your merge
<kenvandine> oh, whoops
<kenvandine> jbicha, fixed and pushed again
<kirkland> seb128: 2d
<gema> didrocks: are you there?
<gema> didrocks: is bug 966294 in your radar?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 966294 in ubiquity "Ubiquity loops forever from ubiquity_webcam_play" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/966294
<didrocks> gema: see seb128's answer to this a couple of hours ago ^
<gema> didrocks: I don't see any answer from him, what's his name?
<gema> or better, comment #
<gema> seb128: are you working on bug 966294?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 966294 in ubiquity "Ubiquity loops forever from ubiquity_webcam_play" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/966294
<gema> didrocks: this bug is a release blocker, from my viewpoint, I don't see any evidence of what we are doing for it
<gema> didrocks: but if you guys cannot fix it, the foundations team need to avoid it by removing the camera screen
<gema> on the installer
<gema> didrocks: I'd like to know your take sooner rather than later
<didrocks> gema: you didn't scrollback or look at IRC logs?
 * didrocks is already following 6 conversations about unity critical bugs
<gema> ah, I thought you meant on the defect
<didrocks> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/04/05/%23ubuntu-desktop.html#t13:07
<gema> didrocks: it is not an installer bug, cheese doesn't work either in the systems where this installer problem happens
<gema> didrocks: so people are not going to be able to use their cameras with precise
<chrisccoulson> i'm liking the new wallpapers in precise, except most of them make my launcher look like turd :(
<didrocks> gema: as seb128 noticed we don't have people knowing gstreamer
<gema> didrocks: ok
<gema> didrocks: I will talk to cjwatson then to see what happens with the installer
<gema> didrocks: thanks for trying :)
<didrocks> gema: sorry for not being much of help ;) (and not being responsive, ETOOMANYPINGS)
<gema> didrocks: cannot fix is as good answer as any, not having an answer is the bad part, thanks !
<didrocks> gema: yw ;)
<cjwatson> sigh - well, nothing from me until after Easter now anyway
<cjwatson> I think that's very unfortunate, it's after UI freeze and removing features may be no less bad than trying to add them
<cjwatson> we can look next week at making it timeout, although I stand by my comment that that may be not such an unrisky thing to attempt as QA suggests
<cjwatson> I should clarify that the webcam screen was a design requirement, not a foundations requirement
<cjwatson> (https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/Doc?docid=0AU5sFuLRpCpBZGZra2pqY2pfMTAxZ25rcnBnNXY&hl=en_US&pli=1#_Take_a_picture_55548248461894_7575857748743147)
<kenvandine> seb128, when you get back can you take a look at ubuntu-wallpapers? it's in binNEW
 * kenvandine goes to get some food
<didrocks> ok, time for some exercice, have a nice week-end for those having one, and see you tomorrow for the others :)
<seb128> re
<seb128> kirkland, 3d works better for that, but well with the next version the hud key will be customisable so you will be able to move it away from alt
<seb128> gema, no I'm not, we don't have anyone knowing gstreamer here and it's a 4 days w.e for most of the team tonight
<seb128> chrisccoulson, yeah, it's hard to find one that looks good and have a nice color picked for the unity ui
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I blame a bit desrt for that :p before the value was in gsettings and possible to tweak :p
<kenvandine> hey seb128
<seb128> kenvandine, wallpapers newed
<kenvandine> thx
<matsubara> kirkland, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-2d/+bug/947468
<seb128> kenvandine, sorry reading backlog in order :p
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 947468 in unity-2d "Alt summoning of heads-up-display interferes with Emacs" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<kenvandine> :)
<kenvandine> odd, just got back from lunch by i feel hungry, must resist the urge to snack
<seb128> kenvandine, your lunch was probably too healthy
<seb128> kenvandine, you need a burger with extra cheese or something :p
<kenvandine> seb128, that would have been better!
<chrisccoulson> seb128, https://twitter.com/#!/chrisccoulson/status/187949938225856515
<chrisccoulson> the color looks pretty horrible with all of them tbh :(
<chrisccoulson> it's clear that the average of brown with a bit of orange is going to be.......... well, crap ;)
<chrisccoulson> i'm just putting precise on jo's laptop now :)
<jbicha> chrisccoulson: does she know you're doing that?
<chrisccoulson> jbicha, she knows that i'm doing something with it, as i've just swapped the hard drive out of it ;)
<jbicha> chrisccoulson: I got tired of hearing my wife talk about oneiric bugs, but I think she'll stay with precise LTS for a while
<mdeslaur> chrisccoulson: what was she running before?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, how did you change them?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, the color I mean
<chrisccoulson> seb128, in ccsm ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, oh; that's going away in the next upload
<chrisccoulson> seriously? :(
<chrisccoulson> can we fix the color averaging then? it looks horrible with pretty much every wallpaper i use :(
<seb128> chrisccoulson, desrt's fault, he pushed for gnome-desktop the compute the medium color value and put it as an x property
<seb128> chrisccoulson, so unity doesn't have to read the file as well and redo stuff
<mdeslaur> chrisccoulson: what was your wife running before precise?
<chrisccoulson> mdeslaur, oneiric
<seb128> chrisccoulson, gord had an update for gnome-desktop today, it only takes the left half of the wallpaper for the computation now but I don't think it's going to do much of a difference
<mdeslaur> chrisccoulson: ah, cool. mine is too...guess I should upgrade her soon.
<mdeslaur> (before she does it herself)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, we should maybe get a gsettings key for a factor used in the computation or something
<mdeslaur> com.canonical.Unity.anything_but_brown
<gord> chrisccoulson, seb128 - for what its worth, that ccsm option will still work :) it'll override what libgnome-desktop colour - its a useful ccsm option for testing
<chrisccoulson> gord, ok, that's good. that means i can still have it black :)
<gord> we should really have a "paint it black" option
<seb128> gord, oh, nice
<mdeslaur> com.canonical.Unity.any_color_you_want_as_long_as_its_black
<seb128> chrisccoulson, better than "ubuntu" don't we have a "null" component? ;-)
<chrisccoulson> seb128, good point. that bug was doing my head in
<chrisccoulson> https://twitter.com/#!/chrisccoulson/status/187983922351714305 ;)
<chrisccoulson> i need to close twitter for a bit!
<seb128> chrisccoulson, you got twitter addict!
<chrisccoulson> heh
<chrisccoulson> right, jo's laptop is up and running again
<chrisccoulson> now to try and debug this freeze i get when i undock my own laptop :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, let's see how long it will take before you get yelled at for the precise issues ;-)
<chrisccoulson> yay, --> null :-)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, speaking about debugging non firefox,tb issues, should I reassign the desktop bugs assigned to you to somebody else? or do you still want to get to them eventually?
<seb128> lol
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, i'll try and look at those :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, ok ;-) I read some comments about bug #917598 online this week and I was wondering if we should address it for precise and if it should be reassigned
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 917598 in gnome-settings-daemon "batterie low warning notification uses fallback dialog" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/917598
<jbicha> any ideas for what's gone wrong in bug 967978 ?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 967978 in gnome-control-center "missing "apply system-wide" in network>proxy" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/967978
<seb128> jbicha, yes, it's buggy
<seb128> jbicha, thanks for asking about it
<chrisccoulson> seb128, oh, that's an easy one for me to do
<chrisccoulson> i'll do it after i've had a go at figuring out this undock issue :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, that would be great if you could get it done for precise ;-)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, please do :p
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I don't dare to close my lid when I dock my laptop or to undock it if not suspended nowadays ;-)
<seb128> jbicha, sorry I will get back to you soon when tb decide to behave
<Laney> it is supposed to only appear if you're an admin
<seb128> ok, 0 tb - 1 google
<seb128> I wish apps would have google search foo
<Laney> which basically means that the user is in "admin" group
<seb128> jbicha, Laney: so the g-c-c patch check for "admin" membership but precise changed to use "sudo" like debian instead
<seb128> so the patch need to be updated to check for both
<seb128> ie bug #893842
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 893842 in policykit-1 "Move "admin" group to "sudo"" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/893842
<seb128> jbicha, can you do it?
<seb128> jbicha, you still need to keep the "admin" check for upgrades
<seb128> jbicha, it works for you because you upgraded
<seb128> chrisccoulson, what about bug #857168, it's still on your list, do you know if that's still an issue?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 857168 in totem "totem doesn't inhibit the screen blanking as it should" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/857168
<seb128> jbicha, btw could you drop the canberra login sound from the startup capplet again now that we turned login sound off by default? it's the only stuff showing up there
<seb128> cyphermox_, ^ could you do the same for the evolution-alarm-calendar notification stuff? it's not by default but it should probably be also hidden
<seb128> kenvandine, https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/ppa/+sourcepub/2365705/+listing-archive-extra
<seb128> others as well ^
<seb128> new gtk with a patch from upstream "Don't call gdk_window_process_updates() when scrolling"
<seb128> it would have scrolling regressions I would appreciate testing
<seb128> kenvandine, could you test in gwibber?
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> cool, that is what cimi was complaining about
<seb128> that's to optimize smooth scrolling not being smooth
<seb128> kenvandine, right, I'm just a bit concerned it has side effect :p
<kenvandine> i'll test asap
<seb128> thanks
<kenvandine> seb128, seems fine in gwibber, gedit, gnome-terminal and empathy
<seb128> kenvandine, thanks! did you notice any improvement?
<kenvandine> not really
<kenvandine> but to be fair, i've never really noticed a slow down :)
<seb128> kenvandine, you need slower hardware :p
<kenvandine> seb128, shhhh.. don't tell my wife she won't let me upgrade :)
<dobey> why the heck do i have to "ssh localhost" on my workstation all the time, before my laptop will ssh into it? makes no sense
<kenvandine> dobey, indeed, that makes now sense
<dobey> seb128: the slow scrolling in gwibber is unrelated to gtk+ scroll api :)
<kenvandine> dobey, indeed
<kenvandine> dobey, as always, you are correct :)
<dobey> heh
<seb128> dobey, right, but I didn't want to make it buggy in addition to be slow ;-)
<dobey> hehe
<cyphermox_> seb128: you mean alarm sound?
<cyphermox_> if so, sure, I'll also upload the "fix" for the alarm notify unreadable dialog too
<jbicha> seb128: I think the login sound should still be in Startup Applications until the on/off switch gets added to System Settings
<seb128> jbicha, it's the only stuff listed there and it looks stupid, there was a good case to turn off but I think there less one to turn login sound on
<seb128> cyphermox_, no, can you run gnome-session-properties, do you have an evo item listed?
<cyphermox_> well yeah, /usr/lib/evolution/3.2/evolution-alarm-notify
<seb128> cyphermox_, right, no "sound" in there I think
<cyphermox_> you want that hidden?
<seb128> cyphermox_, what do you think? we did hide all the other "services" to only list softwares the user add, i.e xchat, pidgin, etc
<cyphermox_> I think it might trigger a sound when it appears, though last time I got reminders I don't recall hearing anything
<cyphermox_> seb128: yeah, I think it probably could be hidden
<seb128> cyphermox_, it just confuses user to have system stuff there
<cyphermox_> it's not installed by default though
<seb128> cyphermox_, good, please add a NoDisplay in the next upload ;-)
<seb128> cyphermox_, still it confuses user to have services in the startup softwares
<seb128> cyphermox_, so we can hide it
<cyphermox_> yup
<seb128> cyphermox, thanks
<jbicha> seb128: ok I guess I'll hide the login sound option then, you're just lucky that I didn't mention it in ubuntu-docs. Then you would have been stuck with it!
<seb128> jbicha, ;-)
<seb128> jbicha, thanks
<seb128> jbicha, did the sudo group stuff made sense to you btw?
<seb128> jbicha, I can have a look next week if you don't get to it, but didrocks plans an upload and works tomorrow and monday so maybe you can bribe him to include a fix for that ;-)
<jbicha> seb128: yes I believe so
<seb128> jbicha, I'm off from soon to next tuesday (though I might be around a bit tomorrow)
<jbicha> seb128: enjoy the weekend
<seb128> jbicha, thanks!
<seb128> jbicha, do you also get friday and monday off in the u.s?
<chrisccoulson> bdrung, re bug 971525, why are extensions coming from debian that are installing things in to /usr/lib/firefox? it breaks our firefox package :(
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 971525 in esteid-browser-plugin "Please remove esteid-browser-plugin from the archive urgently, as it trashes our Firefox package (was firefox-locale-fi: User Interface completely in English)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/971525
<chrisccoulson> oh, my
<chrisccoulson> so, it was actually the reporter of the bug who packaged it!
<chrisccoulson> that's great
<chrisccoulson> 1) Package extension which breaks Firefox package in Ubuntu
<chrisccoulson> 2) Report bug against Firefox package in Ubuntu after i broke it
<chrisccoulson> fantastic
<seb128> chrisccoulson, it's time for one of those strong beers ;-)
<chrisccoulson> heh
<chrisccoulson> i feel like it :)
<jbicha> seb128: I'm actually working for a bit on Saturday even!
<seb128> jbicha, oh :-( good luck then!
<jbicha> when I was in the Navy, we didn't officially get time off for Easter as it's more of a religious holiday I guess
<seb128> jbicha, isn't that a national holiday in the u.s? or does it work by states?
<jbicha> no official federal holidays from mid-February until the end of May :(
<chrisccoulson> seb128, are you an archive admin?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, sort of yes
<seb128> chrisccoulson, well the "sort of" is to let me an escape road :p
<chrisccoulson> seb128, can you do removals then? or do i need to bug somebody else? ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I can do removals, though I would prefer you bug slangasek on #ubuntu-release or whoever accepted the source if that was recent
<jbicha> I don't think it's a govt holiday for any of the States, I believe the USPS will still deliver mail like normal on Monday
<seb128> jbicha, ok, quite a different culture and system here, it's not always easy to compare ;-)
<kenvandine> seb128, yeah no holiday for me
<seb128> kenvandine, ok, didrocks feel less alone ;-)
<jbicha> kenvandine: do you have to follow the US schedule? how do Canonical holidays work?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, was that source recently newed? I just wanted to know who newed it and why, I'm happy to delete it for you in a few minutes if nobody replies on devel
<kenvandine> jbicha, we follow government holidays
<chrisccoulson> seb128, oh, apparently it wasn't sync'd from debian
<seb128> chrisccoulson, yeah, i'm reading devel while looking for popcorn :-)
<chrisccoulson> not sure why it was accepted by anyone. it's quite well accepted that we no longer accept firefox extensions in to the archive :(
<micahg> chrisccoulson: it's arch: any and appeared to be an NPAPI plugin
<bdrung> chrisccoulson: mozilla-devscripts doesn't put stuff into /usr/lib/firefox
<chrisccoulson> bdrung, yeah, sorry, it's not your problem ;)
<bdrung> chrisccoulson: are you talking about an extension or about a plugin?
<chrisccoulson> bdrung, it's an extension
<bdrung> chrisccoulson: then complain to the package to use mozilla-devscripts. ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, ok, deleted
<chrisccoulson> seb128, excellent, thanks
<seb128> chrisccoulson, yw
<markgifford> I have precise beta 2 and unity 5.8. I don't seem to be able to turn off certain icons on the top panel e.g. (Bluetooth) despite seeing blog posts a month back saying it's now possible. is this something i should wait for 5.10 and hope it's fixed?
<markgifford> I'm happy to edit conf files rather than doing it via the GUI, if that's what's needed. If so, which files define what appears in that top panel?
<davidcalle> markgifford, do you have dconf-editor installed?
<seb128> markgifford, why do you need icons to be turned off from the ui? do you lack horizontal space?
<markgifford> davidcalle, yes I do. Can I use that to edit the top panel? seb128, no not for space reasons, mainly for aesthetics, and because this one Bluetooth one didn't seem to be functioning correctly. Right-click > Turn off Bluetooth never did anything
<seb128> markgifford, do you use unity? right click is the same as left click in unity
<markgifford> Now I've just actually opened up the full dialog box and flipped the on-off "switch" in the UI and now the Bluetooth icon is greyed out
<markgifford> seb128, Ah OK. Well, left click on icon and then Bluetooth Settings
<davidcalle> markgifford, you can, look in com.canonical.indicator
<markgifford> Now that I've got used to how it works I think I'm OK with it! I just now need to find out how to edit what appears in the indicator menu
<markgifford> Can these items under the envelope icon be edited using dconf-editor? Things like the default "Set up mail..." (I use webmail rather than desktop client)?
<seb128> no
<seb128> markgifford, try asking on #ubuntu-unity, you can create file somewhere in .local I think
<markgifford> OK, will do. I think I'll have more of a play with dconf-editor too. Thx for the help guys
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-04-06
<didrocks> good morning
<skaet> good morning didrocks :)
<didrocks> hey skaet!
 * skaet about to call it a night;)
<BigWhale> Good Morning
<raffa50> hello
<raffa50> i've added my mime type and when i click on a file with my extension it opens ups
<raffa50> but i can't see the file icon
<raffa50> how can i do?
<desrt> seb128: hey
<desrt> seb128: did you get cimi's patch?
<kenvandine> mterry, oh... you uploaded light-themes today, i didn't see it because it when in the queue
<kenvandine> i just uploaded one too which included you fix as well :)
<mterry> kenvandine, oh ok
<mterry> kenvandine, cool, you rolled a new upstream tarball?
<kenvandine> #ubuntu-release says archive: open
<kenvandine> so i didn't think things would go to unapproved yet
<kenvandine> mterry, yeah
<kenvandine> 0.1.9
<kenvandine> my upload didn't reference your bug though
<raffa50> hello
<raffa50> i've added my mime type, but i can't see the file icon for my extension how can i do
<didrocks> ogra_: !
<didrocks> ogra_: you didn't use the vcs for compiz and c-p-m :/
<didrocks> and it's screwing the unity testing in this timeframe
<didrocks> ogra_: I just pushed a fake ubuntu10~ppa1 again to the ppa
<didrocks> ogra_: let's reconcile that on Monday
<didrocks> and let people testing during the week-end
 * didrocks waves good evening and good week-end!
<ventz> Anyone know how I can get shift+down and shift+up to send "down" and "up" respectively (in the terminal)
<ventz> it's driving me nuts in things like vim
<bryceh> ventz, map the keycodes in your vim config file?
<bryceh> ventz, in my .emacs I do something like this:
<bryceh> ;; Make Shift+Arrows into same as Arrows alone
<bryceh> (define-key input-decode-map "\e[1;2A" [up])
<bryceh> etc.
<bryceh> presumably something similar is possible with vim?
<ventz> bryceh: i was thinking about that, but there are a few other places, including in screen, and some console apps
<ventz> it seems it would be easier/nicer if i can just map it in the terminal
<ventz> the other thing I am trying to find is what colors the apple Terminal.app uses so that I can match them under ubuntu -- since I like most of them
 * ventz -> trying to make the jump from a apple->ubuntu for my client side
<dobey> why not just "stop holding the shift key" ?
<ventz> its actually used in some places (ex w/ vim: for visual blocks which are just convenient)
<dobey> bcurtiswx: ok, i have another fix which should definitely solve the bug, if you'd like to test it
<Sarvatt> hmm... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/UnityHardwareRequirements says GL_ARB_framebuffer_object is required for unity, but unity-support-test checks for EXT|ARB
<Sarvatt> got a gpu here with EXT and missing EXT_packed_depth_stencil and its all kinds of busted with unity3d
<Sarvatt> anyone know if ARB really is the requirement? I'm thinking maybe EXT worked because mesa implemented all of ARB without exposing it for a long time there but these cedarview proprietary drivers really suck and need to be blacklisted from unity3d somehow
<bryceh> Sarvatt, probably need to ask one of the unity guys like jason
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-04-07
<jbicha> m4n1sh: are you around?
<m4n1sh> jbicha: yes
<jbicha> it's like midnight there, right? I'm having some troubles with Zeitgeist/the Privacy panel
<m4n1sh> yes. go ahead
<m4n1sh> I am free now
<jbicha> I'm writing a script to automate taking some screenshots of Unity; and so I deleted the zeitgeist history
<m4n1sh> how did you delete it?
<m4n1sh> from the UI or deleted the sqlite file?
<jbicha> with the Privacy panel, I've also tried rm'ing /.local/share/zeitgeist (is that safe?)
<m4n1sh> yes you can remove that zeitgeist folder
<m4n1sh> you will lose history and fts index
<m4n1sh> and all user specific information like blacklists too
<m4n1sh> so where exactly you found the problem?
<jbicha> well one problem is that with Unity 5.8, newly started apps aren't showing up as Recent Apps in the Dash
<m4n1sh> you deleted the history
<m4n1sh> so Unity does not know about the application usage
<jbicha> but apps I started after deleting the history should show up
<m4n1sh> yes, they should show up
<m4n1sh> you can try using lp:zeitgeist-explorer
<m4n1sh> and check if application launches are being logged or not
<jbicha> how hard is it to script adding a folder to the blacklist?
<jbicha> for instance I don't want the screenshots folder to be showing, cluttering up the Dash search results
<m4n1sh> yes, just open Privacy
<m4n1sh> and add that folder
<m4n1sh> as filter
<jbicha> some settings, I can just use gsettings set in the script, but you're not using gsettings, are you?
<m4n1sh> no. no gsettings
<m4n1sh> everthing is stored in a sqlite database
<m4n1sh> gsettings can't store such complex data objects
<m4n1sh> or if it can do, its too much of work
<jbicha> a list of blacklisted folders can be stored in gsettings
<jbicha> I'll just add it to the list of thing to be done manually after creating a new account then, thanks
<m4n1sh> yes, but that is not how it is stored
<m4n1sh> its lot more complex
<m4n1sh> you can have incredible control over the blacklist
<m4n1sh> using the blacklist api, you can control that you want to blacklist filter of type avi in a folder
<jbicha> I also had a problem yesterday where the Privacy panel with Unity 5.10 wouldn't delete the history but unfortunately I didn't save the terminal output
<jbicha> fortunately it's working today
<m4n1sh> or you can even specify to block all logging of videos of type avi in a specific folder only if it is opened by a specific player
<m4n1sh> yes. I think the problem is even more
<m4n1sh> the history is deleted
<m4n1sh> but the fts index is not
<m4n1sh> I think that might be the problem
<m4n1sh> by now the index would have rebuilt itself
<jbicha> the fts index takes a while then on a full home directory?
<m4n1sh> no. the fts index is built using event history
<m4n1sh> whatever is logged
<m4n1sh> it does not deal with files
<m4n1sh> the fts search is over usage history  and *not* over HOME
<m4n1sh> we don't do crawling using inotify
<m4n1sh> or any such method
<m4n1sh> jbicha: anything else?
<jbicha> ok, so I'm back with Unity 5.10 from the testing PPA, I deleted the history & starting new apps doesn't show in Recent Apps
<jbicha> do I have to wait a certain amount of time or what do you think isn't working right?
<htorque> jbicha: were the apps you started on your launcher? it seems to not show up then.
<jbicha> well the apps sometimes show up and sometimes don't, here's my WIP script: http://paste.ubuntu.com/919367
<jbicha> of course that script is trying to open up certain files to fill up the recent files section too
<jbicha> maybe my script needs more pausing at the right times
<Laney> jbicha: yo, have you seen bug #975686?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 975686 in ubuntu-wallpapers "package ubuntu-wallpapers-karmic (not installed) failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite '/usr/share/backgrounds/Bay.jpg', which is also in package ubuntu-wallpapers-extra 0.1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/975686
 * Laney dupes it to a better one
<jbicha> Laney: wow, I didn't know that package existed
<Laney> me neither
<Laney> I just got hit by "lost my old wallpaper" and installed ubuntu-wallpapers-*, and then this happened :-)
<Laney> I'm doing a diff for the transitional package
<jbicha> Laney: you lost a wallpaper?
<Laney> I had an Oneiric one and it was removed when I got the new ubuntu-wallpapers, yes
<Laney> it came back when I installed ubuntu-wallpapers-oneiric
<jbicha> there were enough complaints when that happened for Oneiric that I thought we should fix it for this cycle
<Laney> yes
<Laney> I don't know what you can do other than handle it in the release upgrader though
<jbicha> well it shouldn't happen again after Precise though
<Laney> why?
<Laney> what's seeded?
<Laney> I think the wallpaper package is marked as automatically installed so apt is happy to remove it
<jbicha> oh, I guess it needs a bit more work then, apt should get smarter and not remove ubuntu-wallpapers*
<Laney> you have to get it marked as manually installed
<jbicha> Laney: how do we do that?
<Laney> not sure, perhaps it can be handled in u-m
<jbicha> Laney: ok I added that note to bug 863509
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 863509 in ubuntu-wallpapers "Upgrading Ubuntu to new version deletes previous wallpapers" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/863509
<Laney> you probably want to talk to mvo about how to implement it
<maxb> semi relevant aside: I have a removal request for ubuntu-wallpapers-extra pending sponsorship
<Laney> yep, thanks for that. I'm just providing the transitional package so that people who previously had that -extra get moved over to -karmic
<james_w> Laney, jbicha: If ubuntu-wallpapers is moved to the metapackages section then I think the depended-on packages won't be removed
<Laney> yeah? That would be good :-)
<james_w> that's the behaviour for ubuntu-desktop et. al. at least
<james_w> so that if it gets removed you don't lose all of the packages on your system
<james_w> I'm not sure what I can cite as evidence though, except for having a vague recollection of mvo stating this at some point
<Laney> I just experimentally verified this behaviour
<Laney> not for disappearing packages though
<Laney> james_w: ah, it's Never-MarkAuto-Sections
<james_w> ah, not entirely helpful then
<Laney> no no, it /is/ helpful
<Laney> "// consider dependencies of packages in this section manual"
<james_w> ah
<Laney> see /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/01autoremove
<Laney> jbicha: I just pushed ^ to my branch
<Laney> it's too late for oneiric, unless you (a) add some kind of hint to the release upgrader if possible or (b) SRU the wallpapers to implement the split with an ubuntu-wallpapers-oneiric package only
<jbicha> Laney: I'd rather go with option A
<Laney> you should speak to mvo and see how possible it is :-)
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-04-08
<d1rkp1tt> Hi guys, I downloaded ubuntu server, and am trying to get unity running without success... in fact I cant find instructions on it either. THis is probably the wrong place to ask for help about this
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-04-01
<melodie> hi
<melodie> has anyone here noticed the directory having for name "Desktop" is in English in the live, even if you choose another language then once installed to hard drive, the name for it is in the language "other than english" which you have chosen ?
<melodie> this is something for which I would know if a fix could be possible, or if it is a no go to change ?
<melodie> I get the xdg-users-dirs-gtk source and come back with the part which might be concerned
<melodie> in the file "update.c" I noticed Desktop is treated apart from the other directories, with "desktop_entry = "
<melodie> my ultimate wish would be to do a remix with two icons on the desktop, but while this works in the live, it is not brought to the installed version after install
<melodie> if anyone has an idea for me that would be very nice
<melodie> here is a pic: http://meets.free.fr/debian/images/bento2/04-bento2.png
<mitya57_> melodie: do you have a bug filed?
<melodie> mitya57_ no I don't, the thing is that I am not sure where the trick is
<melodie> do the icons not follow install because I didn't yet add a relevant script somewhere, or is it because the "Desktop" directory is changed to "Bureau" (in french) after install : I am not sure
<melodie> I need the help from someone having dev knownledge
<mitya57_> melodie: I never had a chance to look at update.c code, but filing a bug is a first step to get it fixed :]
<melodie> mitya57_ I don't know if it is a bug... hggdh sent me here from #ubuntu-bugs, yesterday, when I asked the question
<melodie> mitya57_ I have show this part in the update.c to my companion to have his opinion about it. He understands C : he told me this part of the code prevents having "desktop inside dekstop inside desktop"
<melodie> so I will not bring a bug report until I know for sure what exactly it is like to get what I would like to get.
<mitya57_> melodie: if all names change to translated, and desktop doesn't, then it's a bug
<mitya57_> (or translation bug)
<melodie> mitya57_ thank you !
<melodie> mitya57_ should I check also the more recent versions of ubuntu ? what is the status for raring for instance ? alpha now no ?
<melodie> I have tested only on the Precise versions, not with Quantal yet
<melodie> getting some coffee and will be back...
<melodie> mitya57__ should I check Quantal and Raring versions as well ?
<mitya57__> melodie: raring should be enough (there'll be a beta release in 3 days, or you can use dailies)
<melodie> mitya57 I go for a daily then, but I need a non unity version : does that exist ? My machine can't stand Unity, it is lower than 2 Gb ram
<melodie> found it
<melodie> found lubuntu
<melodie> will also look for a xubuntu
<mitya57> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/lubuntu/daily-live/current/
<melodie> hem lubuntu is an alternate, so I'll try xubuntu
<mitya57> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/current/
<melodie> thanks mitya57 just what I needed!
<ogra_> qengho, FYI ... i uploaded the chromium fix myself https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/chromium-browser/25.0.1364.160-0ubuntu3/+build/4456155
<qengho> ogra_: okay. I have it in the security update that is coming out today.
<ogra_> happy hacking then :)
<ogra_> qengho, is that coordinated with chriscoulson ? i know he was planning a new upstream as well
<qengho> Yes.
<ogra_> good
<ogra_> i only did that upload because it was just a 1 char fix
<ogra_> else i would have waited for you guys
<dobey> ogra_: sorry, i couldn't get past "stable currency" without laughing :)
<ogra_> haha
<ogra_> :)
<melodie> mitya57 I won't be able to use the Lubuntu version for my demo, it does not work
<melodie> i'll try the official unity even if too heavy here
 * didrocks waves good evening
 * mlankhorst waves
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-04-02
<TheMuso> ./c
<jibel> good morning
<didrocks> salut jibel, Ã§a va?
<jibel> salut didrocks! Ã§a va et toi ?
<didrocks> Ã§a va bien :)
<xnox> didrocks: is lp:bamf actually in the auto-landing mode atm? I have FTBFS fix to upload and I'm not sure if I should do a direct upload + MP or just a MP?
<didrocks> xnox: it's in auto-landing mode
<didrocks> xnox: you did fix the test due to new glib?
<didrocks> xnox: Trevinho was working on it AFAIK
<xnox> .... i was more about ftbfs due to new gir....
<xnox> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/135635599/buildlog_ubuntu-raring-i386.bamf_0.4.0daily13.03.07-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<Trevinho> didrocks: I fixed the tests,,,
<didrocks> Trevinho: ah nice, I didn't spot it in trunk :)
<didrocks> Trevinho: did you see my and cyphermox's ping?
<didrocks> Trevinho: about the missing changelog entry, he didn't want to manually publish yesterday because of that
<Trevinho> didrocks: I saw the cyphermox one... I thought I had linked the bug actually
<didrocks> Trevinho: linking is too late once merged
<didrocks> Trevinho: you need to add a changelog entry then
<didrocks> cyphermox: ^
<didrocks> this is clear in the daily release FAQ though :/
<Trevinho> didrocks: was it related to https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/bamf/fix-trunk-compilation-tests/+merge/156049 ? since the other ones have a bugs
<didrocks> Trevinho: yes
<Trevinho> didrocks: ah, I didn't open a bug for that, sorry :/
<Trevinho> didrocks: I didn't think it was needed
<didrocks> Trevinho: seems cyphermox wants a mention in the changelog at least
<didrocks> as you changed something in the packaging
<Trevinho> didrocks: ah, right... I was thinking to that as well
<didrocks> Trevinho: can you please do that?
<Trevinho> didrocks: ok, need a new branch or direct push?
<didrocks> Trevinho: direct push is fine by me
<Trevinho> didrocks: ok
<didrocks> then cyphermox can rebuild I guess bamf
<didrocks> and manually publish it today
<Trevinho> didrocks: however.... that sounds weird since I had a bug for https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/bamf/class-to-index-file that actually was the one that changed the debian code (https://bugs.launchpad.net/bamf/+bug/1161430)
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1161430 in bamf "Bamf index file is not used to store the .desktop class name or the OnlyShowIn parameters" [Medium,New]
<Trevinho> didrocks: that's why I didn't change the changelog manually
<Trevinho> didrocks: I thought about doing it, but since I had a bug I just linked to it to make your bots to write it
<didrocks> Trevinho: this bug is in
<Trevinho> didrocks: ah, ok
<didrocks> Trevinho: is it linked to that packaging change? I don't see the link with the gir thing
<Trevinho> didrocks: I didn't change anything gir-related in the last days... I only changed the indexer
<Trevinho> didrocks: the gir was something older that had a changelong
<Trevinho> changelog*
<didrocks> Trevinho: can you check with him?
<Trevinho> 0.4.0daily12.12.05-0ubuntu2
<didrocks> will be quicker
<Trevinho> didrocks: ok
<didrocks> than having me being the man in the middle :)
<Trevinho> didrocks: you're always the man in the middle... Our security hole! :D
<didrocks> :p
<Trevinho> didrocks: just one thing about changelog... Should I edit the last revision, or adding a new one?
<didrocks> Trevinho: if the last changing is UNRELEASED, just add an entry to it
<didrocks> Trevinho: if it's a released one (raringâ¦ so on) dch -i and then add an entry
<Trevinho> didrocks: it seems relased: bamf (0.4.0daily13.03.07-0ubuntu1) raring; urgency=low
<Trevinho> Automatic snapshot from revision 523
<didrocks> Trevinho: yep
<didrocks> Trevinho: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DailyRelease/FAQ#I_have_a_big_change_that_needs_to_be_mention_in_debian.2BAC8-changelog.2C_but_not_bug_for_it_.28or_I_didn.27t_link_to_a_bug_before_merging FYI
<didrocks> (just wrote it)
<Trevinho> didrocks: nice, however in my case I did linked it before merging, but that's another story :)
<Trevinho> didrocks: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~unity-team/bamf/trunk/revision/528
<didrocks> Trevinho: hum?
<didrocks> Trevinho: no, that one is not needed
<Trevinho> didrocks: I've just added it, is it fine?
<didrocks> Trevinho: for the linked one
<didrocks> Trevinho: I guess cyphermox was complaining about   * libbamf: use scanner-flags for introspection, fixes a compilation error.
<didrocks> this one was not linked to a bug
<didrocks> the others are not needed
<Trevinho> mh, misunderstanding then -_-
<didrocks> Trevinho: see https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/cu2d/view/Raring/view/Indicators/job/cu2d-indicators-raring-3.0publish/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/packaging_changes_bamf_0.4.0daily13.04.02-0ubuntu1.diff
<Trevinho> didrocks: ah, I was not seeing them in trunk...
<Trevinho> didrocks: so I just add the libbamf compilation fix to the changelog..
<didrocks> Trevinho: sounds good :)
<Trevinho> didrocks: I keep the debian/bamfdaemon.postinst line though, so that it can be more clear what it changes packaging side...
<xnox> you can reject https://code.launchpad.net/~xnox/bamf/fix-ftbfs/+merge/156514 it's not needed.
<xnox> fixed in trunk already.
<GunnarHj> seb128: Hi Seb, can you please take a look at bug 1163142? Think it is an aptdaemon thing, but I'm anything but sure.
<ubot2`> GunnarHj: Error: Could not gather data from Launchpad for bug #1163142 (https://launchpad.net/bugs/1163142). The error has been logged
<seb128> GunnarHj, try maybe asking cjwatson on #ubuntu-devel, that seems like a dpkg (or debconf) issue
<GunnarHj> seb128: Ok, I'll try that.
<Sweetshark> seb128: ping?
<seb128> Sweetshark, hey
<seb128> sorry, compiz fail, had to close xchat and restart it to be able to focus it
<ogra_> use Mir !
<xclaesse> hm, gnome3 ppa does not have eds 3.8 neither... anyone planning to push it there? :-)
<xclaesse> ah, it is in gnome3-staging
<seb128> xclaesse, I guess it's a bit tricky since it breaks api/abi and will break softwares using e-d-s
<xclaesse> seb128, ah... :/
<xclaesse> maybe I should just stick to 3.6 API in my app then
<seb128> xclaesse, well, I didn't check what libs changed
<seb128> desrt, hey
<seb128> desrt, did you see glib's gdbus-close-pending test fail like on https://launchpadlibrarian.net/135923939/buildlog_ubuntu-raring-armhf.glib2.0_2.36.0-1ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz before?
<seb128> g_main_context_wakeup: assertion `g_atomic_int_get (&context->ref_count) > 0' failed
<desrt> god do i ever hate that test
<desrt> no.  i didn't see that.
<desrt> only on arm?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> doko is doing a test rebuild on the archive
<desrt> well awesome
<seb128> he hit that one, twice now
<seb128> he did a retry and still get it
<desrt> i wonder if our atomic ops are somehow not up to snuff on arm
<desrt> huh.  reliable is nice.
<desrt> i wonder if i could reproduce it locally on my rasp-pi or something
<desrt> only started recently, i guess?
<seb128> desrt, seems so
<desrt> that's weird
<seb128> or the ppa builders are different from the archive ones
<seb128> which is possible
<desrt> i was poking around in that testcase the other day because i had caused a bug
<seb128> like virtual builds
<desrt> but it was on a branch that i didn't merge yet
<desrt> ah... tricky.
<desrt> is this the first archive build you've done?
<desrt> iirc we've had 2.35.x releases in the distro for a while, no?
<seb128> it's like the second one
<seb128> but we didn't have the new glib at the time of the first rebuild
<seb128> but rebuilds are not different from ppas
<desrt> i'm confused.
<desrt> what is the last passing version that we had building on the same system?
<desrt> and what is the system that produces the failure?  real hardware?
<seb128> 2.34 was the last one
<desrt> that doesn't make sense...
<seb128> we don't get a lot of arm builds on ppas
<desrt> OH
<desrt> this is a paa?
<desrt> *ppa
<seb128> yes
<desrt> so this is virt?
<seb128> yes
<desrt> ok
<desrt> so probably i should not try using my rasp-pi to reproduce :)
<seb128> feel free to say that it's a doko or #is bug :p
<desrt> well
<desrt> i'd like to know more :)
<desrt> who do i query about those builders?  #is?
<seb128> desrt, /j #ubuntu-devel to start
<seb128> I'm asking doko there
<didrocks> Sweetshark, qengho, jasoncwarner, mlankhorst, cyphermox, mterry, robru, desrt, tkamppeter, attente: meeting time in 2 minutes!
<qengho> Europeans, welcome to summer time.
<mlankhorst> :(
<seb128> didrocks, thanks
<seb128> (I'm around but in a call)
<didrocks> seb128: continue slacking off, I'll cover you :)
<didrocks> shhh, I hope jasoncwarner_ doesn't listen :p
<seb128> roooh
<didrocks> Sweetshark, qengho, jasoncwarner, mlankhorst, cyphermox, mterry, robru, desrt, tkamppeter, attente: hey!
<desrt> HI!
<attente> hi!
<didrocks> hope that everybody had some good easter holidays (if any ;))
<cyphermox> hey :)
<tkamppeter> hi
<didrocks> IRC was finely quiet, appreciated to be in a quiet (but lonely) place!
<didrocks> anyway: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2013-04-02
<desrt> didrocks: no vacation for you?
<didrocks> desrt: no, planning first to land the 100 scopes
<desrt> :(
<didrocks> but when it was descoped, planning to land the in dash payment
<didrocks> well, at least, quiet days, like no ping in 5 hours, no world record! :-)
<didrocks> new*
<mterry> :)
<didrocks> the wiki is a little bit sparse, do not forget to update it if you have done anything noteworthy ^
<didrocks> same with blueprints/WI, do not forget to update them :)
<didrocks> ok, let's start
<didrocks> Sweetshark: hey!
 * Sweetshark reports slacking off for eastern and april fools (that was actually some work). And working on 4.0.2~rc2. I hope everyone tried the 'libreoffice does print on tuesday only' extension. thats all.
<jcastro> didrocks: if we want to follow along with smart scopes should we keep the preval PPA around?
<jcastro> or will that turn into exploding things?
<qengho> - Testing chromium-browser on some specialty ARM hardware. SIGBUS fun.
<qengho> - Preparing new chromium-browser stable release for security team.
<qengho> - (low priority) Cross-compiling chromium-browser on 64-bit hardware to work around address-space problem at link time.
<qengho> - (low) search-exten$ions packaging.
<qengho> EOL
<didrocks> jcastro: meeting time, will handle more discusion for the end ;)
<jcastro> ok
<didrocks> thanks Sweetshark (and for the google+ post)
<didrocks> qengho: did you heard about qtscripts?
<qengho> didrocks: no.
<didrocks> qengho: so Qt 5 has a v8 copy
<qengho> Of course.
<didrocks> qengho: I think the security team is scared about having to maintain 2 copies
<didrocks> qengho: can you check with chrisccoulson on this subject?
<didrocks> (I think their copy is slightly modified and on older version)
<qengho> Will do.  Add this, with webkit, to the externals list, I guess.
<didrocks> right ;)
<didrocks> thanks qengho
<qengho> Fun.  That's all for me.
<didrocks> :)
<didrocks> v8, webkit
<didrocks> small projects :p
<didrocks> mlankhorst: hey!
<mlankhorst> rt stuff, hard hard hard
<mlankhorst> plymouth race continued
<mlankhorst> eod?
<didrocks> short and concise :)
<didrocks> thanks mlankhorst
<didrocks> cyphermox: your turn :)
<mlankhorst> sorry to be so terse, I was just preparing to leave to think the whole concurrency and rt determinism* problem over while enjoying some nice weather *) https://lkml.org/lkml/2013/4/2/233 *gone*
<cyphermox> ah!
 * didrocks pulled cyphermox from other channels back here :p
<cyphermox> I did the review/prepare (at least until it was waiting to build) for the qtbase/appmenu-qt/dbusmenu-qt uploads
<cyphermox> thanks
<didrocks> \o/
 * cyphermox drops the leash
<didrocks> thanks sil2100 for helping on that too ;)
<cyphermox> yup, very much!
<cyphermox> I also continued working on getting the phablet stuff assigned to me ready for landing
<cyphermox> almost done!
<cyphermox> today I'm putting a few things aside to try and finally fix that dbusmenu/nm-applet bug.
<cyphermox> got a reproducer script now, so with a bit of debugging it should be relatively easy to fix.
<cyphermox> EOF
<didrocks> excellent :)
<desrt> cyphermox: is this the one we were poking at in london?
<cyphermox> desrt: yeah
<desrt> do you know if the network indicator is on the gmenumodel rewrite list any time soon?
<cyphermox> desrt: https://code.launchpad.net/~mathieu-tl/+junk/test-indicator-update
<desrt> (i know... you need to do the work for the SRU...)
<cyphermox> afaik aruiz or someone is already looking at rewriting a proper indicator
<desrt> cool
<desrt> thanks
<didrocks> btw xnox, robru, cyphermox, mterry: on the spreadsheet I shared on Friday, do not hesitate to poke directly upstream to get every cells to "yes" for the phone stuff. If you get any blocker, do not hesitate to ping me if discussing with upstream didn't help (or if we missed some reverse-deps) ^
<mterry> didrocks, I think we need to start to land some of the basic packages like platform-api in the PPA and such that other apps depend on
<didrocks> yeah, xnox is doing them, right? ^
<mterry> platform-api's packaging branch landed
<didrocks> mterry: mind adding to the platform stack and deploying?
<didrocks> mterry: I think elements will move stacks once sergio is back from vacations
<didrocks> but we can start landing
<mterry> k, I can look into it
<didrocks> speaking of whoâ¦ mterry! hey ;)
<mterry> - Fixing up some phablet apps and packaging for automerging/autopushing
<mterry> - Released new Deja Dup, now with less resource hogging and less everyone-in-the-world-uploading-to-U1-at-midnight-UTC
<mterry> - Uploaded a crash fix for sessioninstaller to raring and started a precise SRU for it
<mterry> - Filed a merge to add indicators to the UnityNext welcome screen
<mterry> - Started a fork of UnityNext to work on next generation unity-greeter (to be later merged back into UnityNext)
<mterry> - Ate so many Reeses chocolate eggs...  :-/
<mterry> EOF
<desrt> mterry: i'm jealous
<desrt> (about that last part)
<mterry> desrt, too many, I should have written
 * didrocks sees "chocolate" and ":-/" in the same sentence
<didrocks> doesn't fit!
<didrocks> :)
<cyphermox> no such thing as too many
<didrocks> heh, right
<didrocks> thanks mterry :)
<didrocks> robru: hey, awake?
<desrt> didrocks: maybe not yet.  it's 8:44 there
<didrocks> yeah, it's my guessâ¦
<didrocks> ok, desrt then, missing some chocolate? ;)
<desrt> had my fair share of chocolate, but in the form of mini eggs -- the ones with the hard candy shells
<didrocks> sad ;)
<desrt> spent some time planning and starting to write the ability to define overrides for default values on gobject properties
<desrt> which has been on my list for about a year
<desrt> did a lot of optimisations to g_object_new() in the meantime (~30% improvement in common cases) ready to land after being reviewed
<didrocks> waow, g_object_new() is this small function almost never used, isn't it? ;-)
<desrt> finished up and finally merged a patch for GMenuModel section flattening that hopefully can be used by everyone now to get a common implementation of the functionality (gtkmenu, mac os menus, qmenumodel, even gnome-shell)
<desrt> helped attente with his work on the keyboard indicator
<desrt> reviewed some patches... including one from larsu to help him with the new sound indicator
<desrt> and did some work on action stuff in gio (thanks to attente for reviews there)
<desrt> that's all i remember
<desrt> oh
<desrt> i also spent a long time pressing down a french press _very_ slowly
<desrt> and the coffee tastes great
<didrocks> bonus point for it :-)
<didrocks> thanks desrt
<didrocks> attente: here?
<attente> didrocks, yep
<attente> keyboard indicator is starting to coming together with thanks to desrt and larsu (desktop so far, not phone), has very very basic functionality, and still needs a lot of work and polish
<attente> need to talk to mpt and #gnome-design about how the corresponding g-c-c region/input sources panel should look, but may have to postpone this till Oakland
<attente> this week will start working on how to implement the phone backend of the indicator, lots of other small things to think about e.g. fcitx integration, icons
<attente> EOF
<didrocks> keyboard indicator \o/ a long awaited one :)
<didrocks> thanks attente
<didrocks> hey tkamppeter
<attente> thanks didrocks :)
<tkamppeter> - Posted MuPDF-printing-related project ideas for GSoC 2013
<tkamppeter> - Contacted potential students for participation in GSoC 2013
<tkamppeter> - Closed Blueprint https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-r-cups-bonjour-browsing
<tkamppeter> - Reported several laptop-related regressions: Suspend stopped working, mobile broadband stopped working
<didrocks> great tkamppeter!
<didrocks> ok, my turn I guess
<didrocks> * Misc daily release features and fixes.
<didrocks> * Prepare and continue on supporting multiple release delivering to the same channel.
<didrocks> * Helped and coordinated for touch apps first packaging and evaluation.
<didrocks> * Handle de-100ification, but still having the ppa running
<desrt> didrocks: you forget seb128 and larsu ;)
<didrocks> * Got in my ppa unity + in dash payment for design review and mark's approval in ppa:didrocks/ppa
<didrocks> desrt: I hope we'll get larsu, seb128 didn't do anything and he's sleeping right now ;)
<didrocks> I heard he even took German holidays!
<desrt> :)
<desrt> i don't know why that would surprise you
<desrt> what happened with the 100 scopes stuff?
<didrocks> I'm not :-)
<desrt> just decided it was too much work?
<didrocks> not good enough quality-wise to be released
<desrt> ah.  good reason :)
<didrocks> so better to postpone for a release than shipping a broken experience
<didrocks> yeah :)
 * didrocks is really happy with that decision
 * desrt might have guessed ;)
<didrocks> despite the huge amount of work :)
<didrocks> but well, better in the end, and most of people testing the ppa agrees it's a better experience
<didrocks> but it needs a little bit of enhancement
<didrocks> design-wise and performance-wise
<didrocks> the ppa will stay automagically daily-releasing
<didrocks> on top of raring
<didrocks> so people using the ppa will get updated and there won't be a conflict with distor
<desrt> neat
<didrocks> they should as well install the new pinning package: ubuntu-unity-experimental-prevalidation
<didrocks> which ensures it will prefer stuff from the ppa
<didrocks> jcastro: I think that will answer your questiont ^
<didrocks> question*
<didrocks> any other question?
<mterry> didrocks, for the phablet packaging stuff...
<didrocks> yeah?
<mterry> didrocks, do we need a bootstrap comment in debian/changelog?   You made some comment before that made me think yes, but I thought those comments were just for switching to inline debian/
<didrocks> mterry: good question! :-)
<didrocks> so since Friday, this isn't needed for a feature branch
<didrocks> as this will land on ubuntu-unity/next
<didrocks> it will first take revision 1
<didrocks> and then, build from that
<didrocks> (adding in the end: * blablabla from rev xxx (ubuntu-unity/next))
<didrocks> the 2 sets of commits are not mixed with the "distro ones"
<didrocks> so once we get into distro, we'll need it
<didrocks> if you think we should wait, it's up to you
<didrocks> just be aware that before delivering to distro, we'll need it
<mterry> ...  ok
<didrocks> mterry: also, we don't need the trick of "at least one commit anymore"
<didrocks> of difference
 * didrocks likes hacking on quiet days, enabling to do a lot of work :)
<didrocks> anymore question?
<didrocks> seems not, ok thanks everyone! have a good short week :)
<desrt> normal week for canadians :/
<didrocks> mterry: xnox is on #ubuntu-devel, you can maybe trick him if needed for reverse-deps :)
<didrocks> desrt: like short week is normal? ;)
<desrt> no... like no holiday monday
 * xnox is not entirely happy with all the pings on this channel =)
<mterry> didrocks, post-meeting question.  My unity build-dep branch got rejected by -ci because the version of libunity doesn't exist yet...  How have we gotten around this in the past?
<didrocks> mterry: oh, I've been stupid, we should have handle it as a NEW API
<didrocks> mterry: like in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DailyRelease/FAQ#My_package_B_depends_on_a_new_symbol_I_just_added_on_A
<didrocks> mterry: see some lines above :)
<didrocks> of the previous paragraph
<davmor2> hey guys with software-updater it seems to of locked up doing the Preconfiguring packages.... this is todays iso + using software updater for the first time
<mterry> didrocks, so bump version of libunity?  This wouldn't help with -ci though, right?  That new version of libunity still won't be in the PPA yet
<didrocks> mterry: right, there is a local repository
<desrt> AHHH!!!!!!!
 * desrt head explodes
<mterry> didrocks, I'm leaning towards just building unity twice tomorrow  ;)
<desrt> someone needs to die
<didrocks> mterry: that's fine with me :)
<mterry> desrt, ?
<didrocks> mterry: well, the full build
<desrt> i just got a book delivered in the mail
<didrocks> mterry: and then, you will just kick an unity rebuild
<mterry> didrocks, right
<desrt> i'm supposd to help review it
<didrocks> mterry: you will need something though to build
<desrt> it's a new book on gnome3 development
<didrocks> mterry: I'm sure we'll find a branch, somewhereâ¦ ;)
<didrocks> desrt: "nice"? ;)
<desrt> i opened the book to the middle
<mterry> didrocks, wait it won't rebuild unity if there aren't any new branches?
<desrt> very first page is on the topic of gsettings
<desrt> "hey!  this is cool!"
<desrt> so i read a little.....
<didrocks> mterry: no, as there is the filter of "we need something to build"
<desrt> and this is what i see:
<didrocks> mterry: as you bump the changelog when doing an upload :)
<desrt> http://imgur.com/uSk5Fp6
<mterry> didrocks, :(  but I'm asking it to manually build.  It should trust me
<didrocks> ahah :)
 * didrocks sees desrt in despair
<mterry> desrt, heh
<didrocks> mterry: well, it would trust someone else
<desrt> my review of the book, having read one page, is VERY VERY negative
<didrocks> mterry: but you? come on! :)
<mterry> desrt, you try so hard to crash people's programs, and they still don't get the message
<desrt> mterry: SERIOUSLY
<didrocks> yeah, it seems crashing wasn't enough :p
<mterry> didrocks, OK.  I *think* I just added platform-api to platform.cfg and gallery-app to apps.cfg in head.  Does anybody need to push a button to actually use my config changes?
<didrocks> mterry: you need to run cu2d-update-stack
<didrocks> mterry: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DailyRelease/FAQ#Adding.2BAC8-removing_components_to_a_stack
<didrocks> mterry: also, you need to specify the generic jobs and the list of package + autopilot jobs to run for the integration tests
<mterry> didrocks, ah, fair
<didrocks> mterry: do you want that we coordinate/handle that together tomorrow?
<mterry> didrocks, are you close to EOD?
<didrocks> mterry: more than close, I didn't get time to exercise today, so no break from the past 11 hours :)
<mterry> didrocks, OK, go
<mterry> :)
<davmor2> seb128: Hey dude Who would be the best person to talk to ref software updater/apt?
<davmor2> seb128: myself and vila are both hit by the same issue in that it locks up doing precofiguring packages ...
<seb128> davmor2, hey, I think your issue could be the bug cjwatson fixed in aptdaemon today
<vila> davmor2, seb128: http://paste.ubunu.com/5670927/ with 2 zombies may be relevant
<vila> seb128: oh, so trying to upgrade later may be enough ?
<seb128> the update should be available
<davmor2> seb128: right so update via the terminal and no via software-updater till the fix is in then yes?
<seb128> the fix should already in, but otherwise yes
<seb128> need to restart, my intel driver is in a weird state
 * didrocks is escaping and waves good evening!
<davmor2> seb128: Yeap that has pulled in the new apt-daemon by the look of it so I'll try it again tomorrow and see if it works as expected then :)
<seb128> davmor2, good
<davmor2> seb128: thanks for the info :)
<seb128> yw
<GunnarHj> seb128: Can you please take a look at my latest comment at bug 1162836?
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1162836 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "$PATH does not contain /usr/games - /etc/environment not sourced or environment not preserved" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1162836
<seb128> GunnarHj, what did you change in the version you asked him to test?
<GunnarHj> seb128: I commented the "pam_env.so readenv=1" call at the bottom and added such a call in the beginning.
<seb128> GunnarHj, do you think he has a PATH in ~/.pam_environ or something?
<GunnarHj> seb128: Then he should have had a problem before as well, shouldn't he?
<seb128> GunnarHj, well, not if his userdir is protected
<seb128> GunnarHj, but that seems too much guessing at this point, let's wait for extra infos or other reports
<GunnarHj> seb128: Aha, you are right.
<GunnarHj> seb128: But you agree we wait and see?
<seb128> yes
<GunnarHj> seb128: Ok, thanks.
<seb128> thank you for looking at those bugs ;-)
<seb128> mterry, howdy
<seb128> mterry, did you get reports about unity-greeter making a sad face if you hit "esc" while entering a password?
<mterry> seb128, no?  a couple cycles ago i think we did
<seb128> mterry, ok, that started recently, I will file a bug
<seb128> mterry, didrocks confirmed it
<seb128> the password field vanish if you do that
<mterry> seb128, :(
<seb128> mterry, I downgraded unity-greeter and still happening, I guess it's a lightdm bug
<seb128> mterry, seems like a robert_ancell bug, I will assign to him ;-)
<mterry> seb128, or maybe we only noticed it recently
<seb128> mterry, no, I do esc at least once a week
<seb128> when I'm unsure of what I typed I tend to esc and retype
<mterry> seb128, heh ok  :)
<seb128> mterry, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/+bug/1163456 for info
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1163456 in lightdm "unity-greeter password prompt vanishes when hitting "esc"" [High,New]
<mterry> seb128, thanks
<seb128> mterry, ok, and confirmed that downgrading to lightdm 1.5.1 (just the server and gobject lib) fixes it
<BigWhale> Is there a way for Kazam 1.4.1 in Raring to become 1.4.2? Before the release?
<mitya57> BigWhale: if it's bugfix release, feel free to propose an upload (I see you did some in previous cycles)
<mitya57> ... or contact Andrew to get it into Debian and then sync
<mterry> seb128, nice.  Yeah, robert_ancell's then  :)
<BigWhale> mitya57, it is a bugfix yes.
<seb128> mterry, ;-)
<seb128> BigWhale, no problem to get a bug fix update still in
<BigWhale> seb128, awesome, I made the release a few days ago and everything is in order... I'll bug Ken about it when he's online. :)
<seb128> BigWhale, ok
<seb128> desrt, the arm builders hate you for some reason
<seb128> desrt, the build I tried failed with
<seb128> "  /gdbus/codegen-peer-to-peer:                                         g_dbus_connection_real_closed: Remote peer vanished with error: Underlying GIOStream returned 0 bytes on an async read (g-io-error-quark, 0). Exiting."
<desrt> huh
<desrt> seb128: i wonder if we have some weird threading issues on arm or something
<desrt> gdbus is one of the more aggressive threads users....
<desrt> and maybe it could be that our atomic operations are not up to snuff or something like that
<seb128> could be...
<desrt> but why all of the sudden?
<seb128> it might be worth trying to kick a build on your nexus
<seb128> yeah, not sure what changed
 * desrt needs to figure out a good way to get his nexus semi-permanently setup
<seb128> dual boot?
<desrt> nah
<desrt> i mean so i can just have it in my house somewhere and ssh it to when i need to
<seb128> ah, I see
<seb128> desrt, btw, any chance you could look to https://launchpadlibrarian.net/135746178/buildlog_ubuntu-raring-i386.telepathy-glib_0.20.1-1ubuntu3_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz as well?
<seb128> "ERROR:util.c:282:test_utf8_make_valid: assertion failed: (!tp_strdiff (tmp, test[i].target))"
<desrt> PASS: test-signal-connect-object
<desrt> interesting
<seb128> desrt, not sure what changed, the same version used to build, I wonder if it doesn't like glib as well ;-)
<desrt> i got a ping on this very topic earlier today
<desrt> but it was from a telepathy hacker happy that we finally changed the glib behaviour
<desrt> i wonder if this is related
<desrt> ie: new behaviour of glib automatically disconnecting signal handlers for objects-as-observer when the object is finalized
<seb128> I don't see any obvious commit in http://cgit.freedesktop.org/telepathy/telepathy-glib/log/ that looks like it could address that
<desrt> i'll take a look at the testcase
<seb128> desrt, thanks
<desrt> is it 100% reliable failure?
<seb128> xclaesse says he get it on his box since he upgrade to raring
<seb128> I didn't test yet
<xclaesse> I can reproduce here (raring)
<xclaesse> all the time
<seb128> but it seems to be
<desrt> xclaesse: you're who i'm going to bug to fix it :p
<desrt> i guess not...
<seb128> lol
<desrt> my guess is the glib upgrade causes the issue
<xclaesse> desrt, if you fix a nasty gdbus deadlock I'm experiencing atm: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=697128 :D
<ubot2`> Gnome bug 697128 in gdbus "deadlock in g_dbus_connection_get_type()" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<desrt> xclaesse: lol.
<desrt> very well-known gobject bug there
<xclaesse> really?
<desrt> yes
<xclaesse> damned :(
<desrt> easy workaround, though
<xclaesse> how?
<desrt> call g_ensure_type(G_TYPE_DBUS_CONNECTION) from the top of main
<desrt> ie: before any threads are created
<xclaesse> g_type_ensure() you mean :)
<desrt> ya... that one.
<desrt> long story short: there is a relatively simple lock-inversion deadlock in gtype.c that will be very difficult to fix
<xclaesse> <desrt> PASS: test-signal-connect-object --> we had tp_g_signal_connect_object() for a few years ;)
<xclaesse> desrt, it's a re-implementation of it using  g_object_weak_ref()
<xclaesse> but I'm happy to deprecate that func as soon as we depend on 2.36
<desrt> xclaesse: ya... this is exactly what i suspect
<desrt> that there is a conflict here
<desrt> btw: g_signal_connect_object() is still not threadsafe
<desrt> but i think absolutely nobody is using it for this purpose so that's probably OK
<rickspencer3> hey guys, QtCreator is not showing up on my launcher :/
<seb128> rickspencer3, did that start recently?
<rickspencer3> seb128, yeah
<rickspencer3> since I dist-upgraded this morning
<rickspencer3> seb128, first time since Thursday
<rickspencer3> but now the menu integration works, which is nice
<seb128> rickspencer3, dpkg -l | grep qtcreator?
<rickspencer3> ii  qtcreator                                     2.7.0-0ubuntu1                                                            amd64        lightweight integrated development environment (IDE) for Qt
<rickspencer3> ii  qtcreator-doc                                 2.7.0-0ubuntu1                                                            all          documentation for Qt Creator IDE
<rickspencer3> ii  qtcreator-plugin-ubuntu                       2.7.0-0ubuntu1                                                            amd64        Ubuntu plugin for Qt Creator IDE
<rickspencer3> rc  ubuntu-qtcreator-qt5libs                      0.1-1ubuntu7~raring1                                                      amd64        Qt 5 libraries for Qt Creator
<rickspencer3> sorry
<seb128> rickspencer3, do you have it pinned in your launcher?
<rickspencer3> seb128, no
<seb128> oh, ok, so you are starting it and it's not showing in alt-ab/launcher?
<rickspencer3> seb128, correct, does not show up in alt-tab either
<seb128> Trevinho, ^
<seb128> seems like a bamf issue
 * rickspencer3 logs bug
<seb128> rickspencer3, I somewhat have the feeling that a session restart might fix your issue
<rickspencer3> seb128, hmmmm
<rickspencer3> seb128, I think I restarted since I dist-upgraded
<seb128> still
<rickspencer3> let me log the bug and then do the session restart
<seb128> bamf didn't change for over 3 weeks
<rickspencer3> seb128, should I not log the bug?
<seb128> you can
<rickspencer3> seb128, yeah, but something changed in Qt, right?
<seb128> but I've the feeling it's going to be one of those one time things
<rickspencer3> or QtCreator
<seb128> qtcreator didn't change
<rickspencer3> it's all integrated into the menus know and such
<seb128> could be qt yes
<seb128> I guess we will know if other people get the issue, or if it's persistent after a session restart for you
<rickspencer3> bug #1163522
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1163522 in Unity "QtCreator Not Appearing in Launcher or Alt-Tab" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1163522
<rickspencer3> seb128, of course, you were right
<rickspencer3> ;)
<seb128> rickspencer3, ;-)
<seb128> rickspencer3, some days I hate being right on those sort of things :p
<seb128> that used to be a frequent issue with bamf, I didn't hit it for a long time (which is good)
<cyphermox> bbl
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-04-03
<pitti> Bonjour tout le monde !
<jibel> good morning
<didrocks> salut jibel, Ã§a va?
<pitti> bonjour didrocks
<didrocks> guten morgen pitti!
<didrocks> pitti: not sure if Arte is broadcasting the same program at the same hour. Yesterday, there were an interesting show on Google books
<jibel> Bonjour didrocks ! Ãa va bien et toi ?
<didrocks> jibel: Ã§a va :)
<pitti> didrocks: nous n'avons pas un TV :)
<didrocks> pitti: you can watch Arte online :)
<pitti> oui
<pitti> didrocks: we just returned from Dresden yesterday, though
<didrocks> oh? how was it? did you enjoy those days off?
<pitti> didrocks: indeed I did, thanks! some days to meet family and friends again
<didrocks> great :-)
<pitti> quelques jours pour recontrer nous amis et famille
<pitti> s/nous/nos/
<didrocks> il a fait beau? vous avez bien pu en profiter?
<pitti> didrocks: oui, mais il Ã©tait trÃ¨s froid, et il a beaucoup neigÃ©
<mlankhorst> bonjour!
<pitti> Ã§a va mlankhorst
<didrocks> pitti: argh :( ici, c'est un temps de printemps
<didrocks> hey mlankhorst
<pitti> didrocks: pas encore lÃ 
<mlankhorst> Ã§a va?
<didrocks> Ã§a va bien, et toi? :)
<mlankhorst> ca va:/
<seb128> hey desktopers
<pitti> bonjour seb128, comment Ã§a va ?
<seb128> pitti, salut, ca va bien, et toi ? ton w.e de paques Ã©tait bon ?
<pitti> seb128: oui, il Ã©tait bien, mais il faisait trÃ¨s froid
<seb128> j'ai vu ta photo de bonhomme de neige sur g+
<seb128> ici aussi il fait encore froid :-(
<pitti> :)
<pitti> seb128: "photo" est feminine ?
<seb128> oui
<jibel> pitti, "photo" est fÃ©minin ;)
<seb128> salut jibel, ca va ?
<pitti> car "fÃ©minin" est masculin :)
<jibel> Salut seb128 , Ã§a va bien et et toi ?
<seb128> nickel ;-)
<didrocks> (grand soleil Ã  Lyon, c'est le printemps, venez, venez! ;))
<xclaesse> seb128, desrt: FYI it is that commit that break tp-glib unit tests: https://git.gnome.org/browse/glib/commit/?id=f91ef4ef15d220f6899c97aaf5b1c0a8f68cfe9a
<seb128> xclaesse, hey, thanks
<xclaesse> it seems intentional, so I guess it is tp-glib that should be updated accordinately, but I'm not an unicode guru
<seb128> xclaesse, right, seems similar to https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=694669#c3
<ubot2`> Gnome bug 694669 in general "consider unicode corrigendum #9" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<xclaesse> seb128, aahhh
<xclaesse> seb128, our test is a copy/paste of glib's
<xclaesse> I'll just copy they patch then
<seb128> xclaesse, thanks
<seb128> I'm surprised nobody noticed/did something until now
<czajkowski> aloha
<czajkowski> I've been doing a raring update for the last 20 mins and it seems to have stopped mid way and wont budge, anyone seen/heard of this in the last few hours?
<ogra_> czajkowski, hanging at unpacking or configuring the kernel ?
<czajkowski> ogra_: says preconfiguring  packages....
<ogra_> hmm, then its something different
<czajkowski> bugger
<ogra_> checked the terminal log ?
<czajkowski> ogra_: thats what I see in the terminal log
<czajkowski> ogra_: http://ubuntuone.com/45FaItkRRfnFzcTKq8RTa1
<ogra_> ha, and i see myself in the background !
<ogra_> :)
<ogra_> probably the apt log has something in /var/log ....
<czajkowski> was the safest irc channel to copy and show :)
<czajkowski> paranodi if I shut down now I wont have a resuming laptop
<davmor2> seb128: Good news with cjwatsons apt in place update-manager is now working again :)
<xclaesse> seb128, tp-glib 0.20.2 released with unit test passing ;)
<seb128> xclaesse, thanks
<czajkowski> ogra_: any ideas how I get past http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5673254/
<ogra_> kill the already running apt
<seb128> czajkowski, that seems like the aptdaemon bug cjwatson fixed yesterday
<czajkowski> I'm sure I already killed it stabbed it
<seb128> czajkowski, kill any running dpkg process
<seb128> czajkowski, ps ax | grep dpkg
<czajkowski> oh more to kill cheers
<seb128> czajkowski, dpkg -l | grep aptdaemon?
<seb128> czajkowski, just checking what version you have
<popey> 1.0.0ubuntu9 here
<popey> and I killed stuff
<seb128> that's the fixed version
<seb128> when did it get installed?
<seb128> and did you reboot your system since that time?
<czajkowski> seb128: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5673263/
<popey> 5 mins ago
<popey> not rebooted since
<popey> i.e. after I killed and then dpkg --configure -a'ed
<seb128> ok
<seb128> so I guess you didn't have the fixed version running
<seb128> czajkowski, dpkg -l | grep aptdaemon
<popey> i didnt have the fixed version installed
<seb128> ok, good
<seb128> popey, thanks
<seb128> czajkowski, in any case kill those dpkg processes, install the new aptdaemon and then you can enjoy using update-manager again
<czajkowski> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5673266/
<czajkowski> seb128: cheers
<seb128> k, you just got the updated version, so yeah, same bug
<seb128> thanks for confirming ;-)
<davmor2> seb128, popey, czajkowski: I have the fixed version install from yesterday but had to do sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade to install it, My machine has been rebooted since then and todays updates have gone in no issues.
<seb128> good
<seb128> well, good for the "no issues"
<AlanBell> hi, I have a missing background and icons in raring, fully updated with the ubuntu-desktop^ task installed
<AlanBell> right click gives me a menu, I can choose background but all I get is this white (actually light grey) background
<seb128> AlanBell, gsettings get org.gnome.desktop.background show-desktop-icons ?
<AlanBell> ah actually the icons are there, they were offscreen or something, just arranged by name and they are all there
<seb128> ok
<seb128> ignore that question then ;-)
<AlanBell> but on a grey background
<AlanBell> it does this in a guest session too
<seb128> weird
<seb128> dpkg -l | grep nautilus?
<seb128> is that the archive version or a ppa one?
<seb128> does it work if you pick another wallpaper?
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5673288/
<AlanBell> no, doesn't work with other wallpapers or plain colours, always the same grey
<AlanBell> if I kill the nautilus -n that is running then the desktop goes black
<AlanBell> run nautilus again and it goes grey
<popey> looks like you're running nautilus from the gnome team ppa
<AlanBell> oh
<popey> version string matches https://launchpad.net/~gnome3-team/+archive/gnome3
<AlanBell> I probably am
<AlanBell> thought that was just gnome shell stuff
<seb128> AlanBell, that's your issue then, broken ppa version ;-)
<AlanBell> so it seems
<ricotz> AlanBell, you can re-enable the background plugin of gnome-settings-daemon
<AlanBell> ricotz: is that in gconf-editor somewhere?
<AlanBell> or dconf-editor?
<ricotz> yes, in dconf -- org.gnome.settings-daemon.plugins.background
<AlanBell> ok, I will log out and back in later and see if that worked
<popey> seb128: got another machine with the aptdaemon issue, you dont want/need any info from it do you?
<popey>   Installed: 1.0-0ubuntu8
<popey>   Candidate: 1.0-0ubuntu9
<tkamppeter> larsu, hi
<seb128> popey, thanks, I just wanted to confirm that you were not seing the issue still on a machine with 0ubuntu9 installed (and in use)
<popey> seb128: ok, will update then
<desrt> pitti: this dia crasher.... weren't you going to upload a patched package?
<desrt> i see reports that there is still the crash in raring
<seb128> desrt, hey, do you have an agenda for the fdo summit? can I add something to discuss on your list? ;-)
<desrt> seb128: we do
<desrt> what do you want discussed?
<seb128> desrt, accountsservices
<seb128> 1- if other desktops plan to use it
<desrt> interesting
<seb128> 2- if the GNOME guys are wanting to make it a real freedesktop project
<seb128> it's on fdo but they are letting patches that don't benefit gnome-shell sit there or refuse to add features they don't need
<desrt> ya.... that's a bit suspicious
<desrt> particularly if other people are coming with patches
<seb128> like we have patches to get the user keyboard locale and backport stored along the other infos there, mterry upstreamed them
<seb128> ups
<seb128> backport->background
<seb128> (autofingers)
<desrt> who is the main upstream contact for that these days?  ray?
<seb128> yes
<desrt> it's a bit of a meaningless conversation if he's not there :p
<seb128> well, it would be good to see if other desktops are wanting to use it
<seb128> that's an useful piece of infra
<mterry> seb128, I threw them upstream, but I don't recall much interest
<seb128> mterry, right, which is sort of my point ... if we can't get patches upstream and nobody out of GNOME is using it, it's becoming a GNOME tech
<seb128> mterry, I'm trying to evaluate if we should keep it in our stack
<seb128> it would be good, but not if it ends up being a "you need to maintain a fork because upstream doesn't want to include features they don't need"
 * didrocks waves good evening
<seb128> xclaesse, do you think you would have any time to review https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=697197 from Trevinho this week? ;-) he would like us to distro patch that to empathy for raring to fix focus issues in unity
<ubot2`> Gnome bug 697197 in General "Empathy ignores the platform-data when activated" [Major,Assigned]
<seb128> xclaesse, I would prefer an upstream review before distro patching it ;-)
<seb128> mterry, did you upstream your accountsservices patches for 0012-add-keyboard-layout-support.patch
<seb128> ?
<mterry> seb128, I don't recall offhand
<mterry> seb128, let me see if I can find the bug in their bugzilla
<seb128> mterry, I found the one about the background, you didn't add the patch but they never replied either about whether they would be wanting to do that
<mterry> seb128, looks like no.  I think I was waiting for their preferred approach for the background patch
<seb128> mterry, ok, can you add it?
<mterry> seb128, sure.  Do I have any other similar patches to accountsservice?
<mterry> (while you're there)
<mterry> seb128, ah, has-message
<mterry> seb128, but that's maybe not something upstream cares about
<seb128> mterry, layouts
<seb128> mterry, but desrt is talking to them about adding a generic key/value storage
<mterry> seb128, that's 0012-add-keyboard-layout-support.patch right?
<seb128> mterry, yes
<desrt> i already designed it
<desrt> it's going to be awesome
<mterry> desrt, oh really?  that would be useful, yeah
<desrt> the problem with key/value is that people can store too much junk there
<desrt> like, unprivileged apps can put anything
<mterry> desrt, you mean the problem is that people would use it?  :)
<desrt> so we probably want schemas to be installed by the apps that would consume the data
<mterry> I know what you mean though
<desrt> ie: lightdm wants to read background, so it would put a file for background there
<desrt> and we reject any attempts to write data that doesn't have a registered consumer
<desrt> i figure that the appropriate response to dealing with writes to invalid keys is to do a kernel panic
<desrt> since it's a system-level service and all
<mterry> desrt, this sounds like dconf with a special database path
<desrt> mterry: well... it's per-user, but outside of the user's homedir
<desrt> so it's neither system-level dconf nor user-level dconf
<mterry> desrt, yeah we can't just drop in dconf and fix it, but it sounds pretty similar
<desrt> well... it's a way to store preferences, in the end
<desrt> so ya
<mterry> but also the abililty for apps to register schemas etc
<desrt> ya
<desrt> you have me thinking now.....
<mterry> desrt, +1 on kernel panic btw
<desrt> glad you agree
<desrt> i'm sure there will be haters
<desrt> but i know they're wrong
<mterry> developer might not notice a simple crash dialog
<mterry> desrt, but also, if there's a way we could just reuse dconf for the accountsservice, that would be swell
<desrt> mterry: for the per-user data, you mean?
<mterry> desrt, yeah
<mterry> desrt, how advanced are these discussions with upstream?  Like, should I still bother trying to upstream these patches we have for one-off features?
<desrt> mterry: upstream will take the patch if i write it
<desrt> i'd like to keep it simple for now, though
<desrt> like, add a dbus interface and expose a client library api
<desrt> nothing more
<mterry> sure
<desrt> gonna go walk larsu to security and grab some lunch now
<Trevinho> pitti: hey, I've noticed one thing in my laptop... I'have that Upower's HhibernateAllowed() result != logind's CanHibernate()... And this lead to the fact that unity shutdown dialog (when pressing the power button) shows the hibernate option, but the indicator-session doesn't...
<Trevinho> pitti: so, I think we should fix that as well, isn't it?
<Trevinho> (to support logind)
<mterry> seb128, https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=63086
<ubot2`> Freedesktop bug 63086 in general "Add KeyboardLayouts property" [Enhancement,New]
<seb128> mterry, thanks
<jbicha> tkamppeter: did you see bug 1157814? fixing it would beat having to use a usb stick to transfer files to another computer to use the printer
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1157814 in cups-filters (Ubuntu) "Xerox Workcentre doesn't print any more in Ubuntu 12.10 and newer" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1157814
<bdrung_> Sweetshark: synced liblangtag 0.4.0-6. thanks for your work on it.
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-04-04
<pitti> desrt: I was, but there were two metric tons of rejections and some more problems, so I put that on the backburner; it's accepted upstream now, isn't it?
<pitti> Trevinho: ah, that's right
<pitti> Trevinho: I uploaded policykit-desktop-privileges_0.14.dsc to fix that, but it'll be stuck in unapproved until after beta-2
<desrt> pitti: upstream did a different patch
<BigWhale> Good Morning.
<didrocks> hey BigWhale!
<BigWhale> didrocks, hey. :)
<BigWhale> Who do I go to if my go to Ubuntu upload guy is missing? :)
<didrocks> BigWhale: patch pilot is working fine nowadays :)
<didrocks> BigWhale: like the list was at ~14 items yesterday, directly pinging the patch pilot helps!
<BigWhale> patch pilot?
<didrocks> BigWhale: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/CodeReviews
<didrocks> BigWhale: you never noticed all those emails on the ubuntu-devel ML?
<BigWhale> I am not really familiar with all the official channels. :/ I was just bugging ken. :>
<didrocks> just go on #ubuntu-devel, follow the regular sponsorship process (see above, there are links ;)). If there is someone in /topic with patch pilot, you can in addition directly pings them!
<BigWhale> Ok, thanks. :)
<didrocks> yw ;)
<BigWhale> hmmm... now I'm all confused. I just want Kazam which is now at 1.4.1 in Raring to get bumped to 1.4.2 :>
<BigWhale> I'll ask around. :)
<jibel> good morning
<didrocks> salut jibel, Ã§a va?
<jibel> salut didrocks ! Ãa va bien et toi ?
<didrocks> jibel: Ã§a va bien :)
<ogra_> seb128, any objection to make the terminals recommends of u-desktop ?
<ogra_> (they are hard deps atm)
<seb128> ogra_, none to me
<seb128> to->from
 * ogra_ does it then 
<seb128> in practice all non-key-piece-of-infrastructure could be recommends
<ogra_> hmm, or i'll better wait until beta is out
<seb128> like there is no reason to force apps on users
<seb128> well, commit to the seed so it gets in next time somebody refresh the package
<ogra_> yep
<pitti> hey seb128, bonjour
<seb128> pitti, salut, Ã§a va bien ?
<pitti> seb128: oui, merci; et toi ?
<seb128> pitti, trÃ¨s bien, merci ;-)
<darkxst> pitti, hi
<pitti> hello darkxst
<darkxst> I think we should have a bunch of crash reports against packages with ddebs now
<darkxst> bug 1163400
<davmor2> hey guys I have an odd issue, all the album art from my u1 music isn't showing up in nautilus, rb or dash.  This is only for local music according to eyed3 the image is imbedded in the mp3 so I am wondering if it is something that nautilus is striping out some how?
<davmor2> hey guys I have an odd issue, all the album art from my u1 music isn't showing up in nautilus, rb or dash.  This is only for local music according to eyed3 the image is imbedded in the mp3 so I am wondering if it is something that nautilus is striping out some how?
<davmor2> sorry if that is a reapet I wasn't sure if it got through
<seb128> it went
<seb128> nautilus is not modifying any file so that's not it for sure
<seb128> not sure how the artwork is embedded in the file, maybe gstreamer/whatever is handling that is having an issue with it
<davmor2> seb128: thanks, eyed3 is listing it like this https://pastebin.canonical.com/88389/  I'm not sure why nautilus isn't showing  it though as far as I know it is in Quantal >  is displaying it just not in the latest raring, this was an install from Tuesdays iso
<seb128> where was it displayed before? as thumbnail in nautilus?
<seb128> can you open a bug with an example file attached?
<davmor2> seb128: in ~/.ubuntuone/Purchased from Ubuntu One/<artist_name>/<album>/  the track.mp3 would show the album art
<davmor2> seb128: I don't know if I can add a commercial purchased mp3 to a launchpad bug for legal reasons, I can possibly share one with you directly
<seb128> can you test if the same file was showing previews in quantal (or precise)?
<davmor2> seb128: I can when I get home
<davmor2> seb128: I'm co-working today
<seb128> k, let me know how that works
<davmor2> seb128: no worries if it shows up in quantal and precise and not in raring I'll open up a bug.
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> if you open a bug maybe put a link to a temporary u1 link to download the song
<seb128> or just share the link in private on IRC
<seb128> but first I would need a better description of the issue
<seb128> nautilus doesn't display thumbnails of mp3 with a covert art image here
<seb128> but I'm not sure it ever did
<seb128> the dash/rhythmbox show those though
<davmor2> seb128: right I'll add a load of screenshot of what I see in raring in comparison to what I see  in Quantal/Precise too then.  Along with eyed3 info on tracks.
<attente> hey seb128
<attente> what version of g-c-c will be in S?
<seb128> attente, hey
<seb128> good question, I don't know yet
<seb128> 3.8 if possible
<seb128> but they "broke" quite some stuff for us
<ogra_> i think its 3.7 now
<seb128> like they statically link all their panels
<ogra_> (i.e. what will be in the initial toolchain upload)
<seb128> which makes harder to have external panels
<ogra_> oh. lol
<seb128> ogra_, gnome-control-center
<seb128> ogra_, you are on #desktop, not  #toolchain ;-)
 * ogra_ totally missed what channel he was in and even more missed the dashes
<ogra_> yeah
<attente> lol
<rsacha> hi. can anybody tell me something about how the unity launcher retrieves the bookmark information displayed when right-klicking on the nautilus launcher icon?
<didrocks> rsacha: it's from the .desktop file of the application for the static quicklists
<didrocks> for nautilus, it's a dynamic one
<didrocks> so it's the nautilus process which is exposing its bookmarks
<rsacha> didrock: what a pity - i hoped it would fetch it from the .gtk-bookmarks file
<seb128> it sort of does
<seb128> through nautilus
<seb128> nautilus reads that file
<rsacha> seb128, i see.
<didrocks> in adding to that, it's exposing the default ones, what .gtk-bookmarks wouldn't have
<rsacha> background is that we use 12.04 in an ltsp environment and nautilus has to run on the appserver. when it runs on that appserver, no bookmarks are displayed in the nautilus launcher.
<rsacha> is there any way to create a workaround for that scenario?
<didrocks> I have no knowledge of LTSP, but if you can come with a patch with tests from someone knowing it, that would be great. I think it's a bigger issue with dynamic quicklist and LTSP though
<rsacha> didrocks, i guess our setup: launcher=local and nautilus=remote is rather exotic and i wonder if it makes sense to create a patch for that :)
<didrocks> rsacha: indeed, it's quite hackish ;) I doubt you will find a reliable workaround though :)
<rsacha> didrocks, true. iw onder if it is possible to start a nautilus process locally in "hidden" mode - one that doesn't appear in the launcher and doesn't draw the desktop. that way, the launcher would retrieve the needed information for the remote nautilus from the local nautilus process
<didrocks> rsacha: that's possible, if you click on the nautilus icon, you have a local version running?
<rsacha> didrocks, no, we created /usr/local/bin/nautilus which is a script that runs "ltsp-remoteapps nautilus". so everytime we run nautilus it is started remotely. the only way to start it locally is to run /usr/bin/nautilus directly
<didrocks> rsacha: you probably have issues with bamf matching I guess
<rsacha> didrocks, uuh-ooh. bamf, never knew that something like that existed :)
<didrocks> rsacha: right, taht's why I think the support isn't there nor really possible :)
<desrt> seb128: hey... looks like my suspicion that we would have more breakage caused by my iface-after-init changes uncovered only after the stable release turned out to be true
<seb128> desrt, gtkmm and mono?
<desrt> seb128: some c++ and c# apps are broken as a result.  there is a workaround in glib that will be part of .1 but maybe you want to pick the changes in the meantime
<seb128> desrt, will do, thanks
<desrt> both camps agreed to try to have a 'real fix' by next cycle
<seb128> you basically broke all the bindings but only pitti noticed and got pygobject fixed? ;-)
<pitti> to be fair, desrt pointed out the breakage
<pitti> I didn't have to discover by accident
<pitti> although the test suite would have told me fairly quickly :)
<desrt> seb128: problem is that neither gtkmm nor gtk# follow the unstable cycle
<desrt> which is fine.... i expected that there would be people who didn't notice until now
<desrt> that's why i made the change the way i did
<desrt> easy to backout and/or add exceptions
<seb128> right
<seb128> that still makes me a bit uneasy
<desrt> it ought to
<desrt> it makes me uneasy too
<desrt> but i'm pretty sure it's the right way
<seb128> like are we going to find next that the java bindings have the same issue? ;-)
<seb128> (not sure if anyone uses those)
<desrt> i've stopped caring about supporting weird uses of glib in a 100% compatible way forever
<desrt> it's far more realistic to be compatible for 99% of the apps out there and have good mechanisms for distros to deal with the 1% cases in a sane way
<seb128> desrt, do you plan to commit those to https://git.gnome.org/browse/glib/log/?h=glib-2-36 as well?
<desrt> oh.  right
<desrt> thanks for the obvious reminder :p
<seb128> yw ;-)
<desrt> in fact, it's questionable that they should be on master at all
<desrt> but i guess people running the development release may as well be without crashes for now :)
<seb128> yeah, will make binding people happier I think
<seb128> let them some time to fix their side
<desrt> cherry-picked and pushed
<seb128> thanks
<apt-get_install> didrocks, there?
<didrocks> hey apt-get_install!
<didrocks> yep ;)
<apt-get_install> hi
<apt-get_install> Will I be able to compile and install programs from source on Ubuntu Touch? (didrocks)
<didrocks> apt-get_install: sure, it's even already possible :)
 * ogra_ wonders why you dont ask in #ubuntu-touch ;)
<bhavesh> idk if my question is related to the topic, but I just wanted to know if Ubuntu touch works only for high end phones or even on phones with 1Ghz singe core processor and 512MB RAM?
<didrocks> ogra_: we were after the hangout and we told people to come on #ubuntu-desktop for those still having questions
<apt-get_install> didrocks: nice, thanks
<didrocks> ogra_: it wasn't a touch show related :)
<ogra_> didrocks, ah, cool
<didrocks> ogra_: do you have the webpages for bhavesh with the low-end device and high-end device? (IIRC, there is one)
<apt-get_install> and will Ubuntu Touch be rooted as deafult?
<ogra_> you mean the ones that UTouch was ported to yet ?
<ogra_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
<didrocks> bhavesh: ^
<bhavesh> didrocks, ogra_ Thank you. <3
<nikth> didrocks, how about an idea to run an image of Ubuntu for mobile on a PC TV stick such as .. Rikomagic ? Will that be possible at all ? worth to try it ? Thanks
<didrocks> apt-get_install: yeah, for only touch question, we should migrate to #ubuntu-touch, but it's the kind of questions we don't know yet :)
<apt-get_install> oh
<ogra_> apt-get_install, the version you install on your own will ... versions on devices preinstalled by manufacturers will likely not (depends on the manufacturer)
<apt-get_install> ah
<apt-get_install> like android then?
<ogra_> well, carriers and manufacturers often require that
<apt-get_install> so, you must jailbreak it then
<ogra_> but if we have a carrier device there will very likely be an ubuntu image you can install yourself on it
<apt-get_install> I rather download and install it by my own
<didrocks> nikth: there is a porting guide, if it's running android, it will be really easy (see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Porting). For others, can be a little bit harder ;)
<nikth> Yea didrocks  , for me (I have a RockChip) is little bit harder , is not so Linux friendly. The SoC is rooted by default but ... we'll see. Thanks for the link !
<didrocks> nikth: yw! :-)
<didrocks> mterry: I loose faith in humanity understanding sarcasm :)
<didrocks> mterry: especially if they listened to the show when I talked about a wine indicator :)
<mterry> didrocks, I felt bad for peeps, they seemed to actually be upset
<didrocks> indeed, it's all dholbach's fault! Germans, again :-)
<mterry> didrocks, you're not in #ubuntu-touch?
<didrocks> oh hey ogra_!
<didrocks> :)
 * didrocks joins one more channel for spam ;)
<ogra_> yo
<ogra_> didrocks, intresting, sarcasm usually makes me grow faiuth in humanity :)
<ogra_> *faith
<didrocks> ogra_: well, they didn't get it, that's why I'm loosing faith ;)
<ogra_> heh, ok
<rvr> didrocks: Loosing faith is cool ;)
<seb128> mterry, don't ruin the g+ comments fun :p
<mterry> seb128, heh, I felt bad
<seb128> mterry, no trolling on social media websites? :-(
<ogra_> huh ?
<ogra_> i thought thats what G+ is for
<ogra_> trolling and cat pictures
<didrocks> ogra_: I don't have the same circles than you it seems
<didrocks> (for cat pictures ;))
<didrocks> cat: pictures: Aucun fichier ou dossier de ce type
<didrocks> btw ;)
<ogra_> well, there also is that small fraction of people that break their phone backs all the time to take pics of the cracks ...
 * ogra_ looks at popey 
 * popey flutters his eyes at ogra_ 
<ogra_> :)
<didrocks> ogra_: oh right, they seem to really perservere in that path :p
<ogra_> my nexus4 lives in a phone sock ...  i drop it all the time :)
 * Nafallo just put an invisibleShield on his beloved phone.
<Nafallo> now I just need to wait 12-24 hours to get to use it again.
<ogra_> i had such a rubber condom ... but it makes it look like an iphone
 * didrocks waves good evening
<GunnarHj> Anybody who can create a Precise task at bug 1161953?
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1161953 in language-selector (Ubuntu) "gnome-language-selector crashed with TypeError in _expand_pkg_pattern(): not enough arguments for format string" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1161953
<rsalveti> bryce: I'm looking at the xorg fix for bug 982889
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 982889 in OEM Priority Project precise "X trying to start before plymouth has finished using the drm driver" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/982889
<rsalveti> drm_device_keep_trying.patch
<rsalveti> do you know if this patch is still needed?
<rsalveti> it broke all platform devices (not pci), including panda
<rsalveti> because the patch is trying to parse the syspath by hand, and just dealing with the pci use case
<rsalveti> while before it was grabbing the busid from the drm functions
<rsalveti> bryce: the patch: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5677931/
<rsalveti> tjaalton: ^
<tjaalton> rsalveti: mlankhorst did further changes to it
<bryce> yeah the syspath stuff was mlankhorst's change
<rsalveti> tjaalton: right, seems the description is not matching the patch
<bryce> maybe we should switch to the patchset I sent upstream
<rsalveti> bryce: have the link?
<bryce> yeah one sec
<mlankhorst> rsalveti: judging from the kernel that was the only working case..
<mlankhorst> maybe I misread it
<rsalveti> nops, we also have platform devices
<bryce> http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg-devel/2013-March/035782.html
<rsalveti> such as /sys/devices/platform/omapdrm/drm/card0
<rsalveti> mlankhorst: ^
<rsalveti> bryce: thanks
<mlankhorst> hmz
<mlankhorst> I see, I'll try to make it work correctly on pandaboard then
<rsalveti> mlankhorst: shouldn't we just use the patches that bryce sent upstream?
<mlankhorst> rsalveti: it's a workaround, I'd rather drop the patch entirely
<mlankhorst> since his version basically didn t work and only timed out, maybe that's fixed now, but if we could determine busid without requiring master then I think we should...
<rsalveti> mlankhorst: problem is that we'd be parsing the string by hand
<rsalveti> not that elegant
<rsalveti> the busid for panda would be platform:omapdrm:0
<mlankhorst> indeed, I'd rather have it as sysfs property...
<mlankhorst> which wouldn't be too hard
<rsalveti> so we need to grab the driver name and then the card id
<mlankhorst> or just fallback if it's not a pci device
<mlankhorst> would that be ok?
<rsalveti> mlankhorst: yup
<rsalveti> mlankhorst: will you work on this patch?
<mlankhorst> sure
<mlankhorst> can you open a bug report and assign it to me?
<rsalveti> there's one already, let me post the details there
<mlankhorst> I'm not on my computer, and about to fall asleep :P
<rsalveti> sure
<rsalveti> mlankhorst: bug 1161981
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1161981 in xorg-server (Ubuntu) "Boot stalls after Ubuntu Raring desktop ARM (Panda board) install" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1161981
<thumper> can someone explain to me why I don't have any Display system settings any more (with raring)?
<thumper> also, why don't I have the sync indicator showing?
<sarnold> thumper: hrm, I've got a "displays" system settings page on my intel hd4000 raring ...
<thumper> sarnold: I went through a phase of having two...
<thumper> sarnold: and now I have none...
<sarnold> thumper: haha :) nice
<bschaefer> thumper, i've had a few of mine 'disappeared' with recent updates...check if you have them installed
<thumper> sarnold: the early two was when I was on quantal with a development ppa
<thumper> bschaefer: what should be installed?
<bschaefer> thumper, hmm check if you have: gnome-control-center
<bschaefer> and possibly gnome-backgrounds
<thumper> bschaefer: Installed: 1:3.6.3-0ubuntu18
 * bschaefer forgot which one was missing
<bschaefer> thumper, you've got gnome-backgrounds as well?
<thumper> bschaefer: no
<koder> hello everybody
<bschaefer> thumper, well hopefully that'll give you system display back...but I think that was for appearance...
<thumper> ah...
<thumper> bschaefer: you are right, I have displays, but no appearance
<thumper> bschaefer: any clue about the sync indicator?
<bschaefer> thumper, hmm i had a few indicators go away as well try: sudo apt-get install indicator-sync
<thumper> gah, session indicator all screwed up again
<thumper> after install
<thumper> shows all users as ((null))
<bschaefer> :(
<bschaefer> i've not seen that!
<bschaefer> thumper, possibly a compiz --replace ccp
<thumper> I get it whenever the system indicator is updated
<bschaefer> well I only have guest and my own account, so i
<bschaefer> i've never noticed it change to null
<thumper> I have a second account where I have personal stuff only open
<thumper> so I can use my laptop without thinking of work
<thumper> so I have email, but just personal email
<thumper> irc, but just personal irc
<thumper> etc
<bschaefer> o nice, I use to do that with my desktop but i've stopped using it...I should split things up like that as well
 * thumper waves at jasoncwarner
<jasoncwarner> hey thumper
<jasoncwarner> thumper I don't know why you don't have the display settings or indicator. can you file a bug and we'll look into it?
<thumper> jasoncwarner: I was wrong, it was appearance I was missing, not displays
<thumper> but sure, I can file a bug
<thumper> just installing the kernel updates, so will need to reboot after that
<jasoncwarner> thumper, yeah, reboot and see if it persists
<thumper> jasoncwarner: I just installed gnome-backgrounds which bschaefer seemed to think was needed
<thumper> jasoncwarner: but wasn't in the deps, so somehow got removed?
<thumper> I'd hope that in making sure I had ubuntu-desktop installed, I'd get all the goodness
 * bschaefer had the entire g-c-c go away a week or so ago
<bschaefer> but I just needed to re-install somethings...
<thumper> should I have a dkms.conf file?
<thumper> I get: Error! Could not locate dkms.conf file. after every kernel update
 * thumper reboots
<thumper> jasoncwarner_: any particular tag I should use for the bugs?
<bryce> jasoncwarner, any lockups since changing the semaphores setting?
<thumper> jasoncwarner: what should I file the bugs under?
 * thumper files three bugs
<jasoncwarner_> bryce: no hangouts just yet...fingers crossed!
<bryce> good
<thumper> jasoncwarner: bugs filed and links in a PM
 * thumper saves extra peer reviews for after lunch
<RAOF> desrt: Want to pop into #ubuntu-mir for a moment? We'd like to make your life more awesome.
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-04-05
<TheMuso> /quit/c
<BigWhale> Greetings.
<didrocks> hey BigWhale
<BigWhale> didrocks! :)
<BigWhale> How's it going? :)
<didrocks> good! yourself?
<BigWhale> Just did a Freeze Exception for Kazam. I'm happy now. :))
<didrocks> sweet! ;)
<BigWhale> And today I'll be bugging Mir developers. :)
<didrocks> great ;)
<didrocks> join #ubuntu-touch
 * didrocks takes more coffee
<jibel> good morning
<didrocks> salut jibel!
<jibel> salut didrocks
<BigWhale> didrocks, I actually joined ubuntu-mir :)
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<chrisccoulson> jibel, are the jobs running for the firefox PPA's? (eg, https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/raring-ppa-adt-ubuntu_mozilla_daily_ppa-firefox-trunk/)
<didrocks> good morning chrisccoulson :)
<chrisccoulson> hi didrocks
<jibel> chrisccoulson, hey, they do http://10.98.0.1:8080/view/Raring/view/AutoPkgTest/job/raring-ppa-adt-ubuntu_mozilla_daily_ppa-firefox-trunk/138/
<jibel> chrisccoulson, the publication to the public jenkins is broken again
<chrisccoulson> jibel, ah, thanks
<jibel> chrisccoulson, I resurrected the publisher, it will catch up with unpublished builds
<chrisccoulson> thanks :)
<jibel> yw :)
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> bonjour pitti! tu t'es levÃ© tard aujourd'hui! :)
<pitti> didrocks: oui, je le sais; I was awake late to try and fix my effing landline phone
<didrocks> oh?
<pitti> my wife's and our spare number (which we never use) both work fine, but mine always says "not reachable" for someone who called
<pitti> "for anyone who calls", I mean
<didrocks> not fun :(
<pitti> so I went through the Telekom web UI for checking redirections, my router's IP telephony configuration, my phone's ISDN configuration, tried registering the handset at the router instead of the phone base station, etc.
<pitti> I realized how darn complicated a landline phone is these days :)
<pitti> but as a workaround I installed an app on my mobile now which talks to the router over wifi
<pitti> that actually works really well, but I don't want to leave wifi on all the time as it drains a lot of power
<didrocks> waow, you have low-level solution and access to your configuration :)
<didrocks> right
<pitti> well, I eventually filed a service ticket at telekom
<pitti> I managed to break my isdn phone during the process, as it seems to have a custom PIN number which I don't know :)
<didrocks> annoying ;)
<ogra_> pitti, try 1234 :)
<ogra_> (its the telekom after all)
<seb128> hey desktopers
<seb128> happy friday!
<didrocks> salut seb128! bon vendredi :)
<seb128> lut didrocks, Ã  toi aussi ;-)
<didrocks> merci ;)
<BigWhale> 12345? That's the stupidest combination I've ever heard! ;)
<pitti> ogra_: already tried that
<ogra_> BigWhale, well, its friday :)
<seb128> hey pitti, ogra_, BigWhale
<ogra_> moin seb
<seb128> is "1234" pitti's password?
<BigWhale> ogra_, it was Spaceballs reference. ;)
<pitti> seb128: *ssssh*
<ogra_> :)
<BigWhale> seb128, for his ubuntu upload ssh key :>
<seb128> pitti, I can't believe nobody managed to crack it in all those years :p
<pitti> seb128: if you want to crack something, please crack the pin number of my landline telephone base station :) I failed
<seb128> ah
<seb128> I guess you tried 0000 ?
 * seb128 suggesting the other obvious after 1234
<ogra_> well, you also could try something fancy ...
<ogra_> ... like 4321
<seb128> what brand/device is that?
<BigWhale> pitti, do you have kids? if so, give it to them ...
<BigWhale> my daughter unlocked my iphone screen lock in a matter of minutes. :>
<pitti> BigWhale: heh, no
<seb128> ogra_, thanks for releasing the lock on the archive btw :p
<seb128> pitti, what brand/device is that you are trying to unlock?
<pitti> oh, is it thawed again?
<pitti> I thought it was supposed to stay frozen until release
<ogra_> heh, sorry for sitting on it for so long
<seb128> pitti, it's frozen, but at least reviews are done and stuff are accepted again
<ogra_> pitti, it is ...
<seb128> pitti, which was not the case yesterday
<pitti> seb128: T-Easy C-520; but nevermind, I already tried the reset steps several times (they don't work), and tried several standard pins
<ogra_> i did a late image build  so uploads were held back
<pitti> seb128: ah, ok
<seb128> pitti, broken device I say
<pitti> seb128: I unregistered my DECT handset and registered it at my router for testing whether that'd fix my landline problem, but now I can't register it back at the phone
<seb128> pitti, the documentation says the pin should be 0000
<pitti> seb128: I know, but it's not (I did look through the documentation, and googled quite a bit)
<seb128> buy french next time :p
 * seb128 hides
<jpds> "Canonical is located in an English speaking country.ï»¿"
<jpds> quoi?
<pitti> didrocks: DidierTV!
 * pitti just watched the first 10 mins
<didrocks> roh :-)
 * pitti n'aime pas de vin rouge
<didrocks> pitti: tu aimes le pain au moins?
<seb128> didrocks, le pain noir mais c'est pas du pain...
<seb128> ;-)
<pitti> didrocks: oui, j'aime bien le pain !
<pitti> we even bake that ourselves
<pitti> seb128: *slap*
<seb128> pitti, ;-)
<didrocks> pitti: Ã§a va, on te donne une moitiÃ© de carte de rÃ©sidence alors :p
<pitti> white bread is much less wrong than AZERTY, but still wrong :)
<seb128> lol
<pitti> oh those cultural differences
<seb128> didrocks, don't listen to him what he calls bread is not bread
<didrocks> pitti: ok, un quart de carte alors :p
<didrocks> seb128: I just downgraded him ^
<seb128> good ;-)
<pitti> lol
 * seb128 hugs didrocks pitti
 * didrocks hugs seb128 and pitti
 * pitti aime les autres nourritures
<didrocks> pitti: right, but there are requirements
<didrocks> real bread, wine and azerty
<pitti> d'accord, je vais manger le pain blanc
<seb128> didrocks, I guess most people can deal with the bread and wine
<seb128> not sure about the azerty :p
<pitti> Je n'utilise pas de clavier allemand soit
<didrocks> seb128: they don't know what they miss, do they? ;)
<seb128> one layout to rule them all
<didrocks> I would put that under the "simplification, one core experience" tag
<pitti> *shudder*
<didrocks> like, why dealing with those xkeyboards bugs?
<pitti> azerty *is* a keyboard bug!
<didrocks> :p
 * pitti gets his asbestos pants really quickly now
 * pitti mettre son pantalon de asbestos trÃ¨s rapidement maintenant
<didrocks> ;)
<pitti> (however wrong that sentence was)
<Nafallo> liquid bread?
<pitti> didrocks: ok, so deal: white bread and ignoring traffic lights, but PC105/US
<pitti> . o O { merci dieu c'est vendredi }
<didrocks> pitti: I think I would put that for a vote, and wait for the strikes feedbacks
<seb128> we can't even say it has been a long week
<seb128> it has a been a 4 days or less week for most of us
<pitti> seb128: so we had to put a week's worth of work into just 4 days!
<darkxst> pitti, are we able to get a retracer setup now? I think the bulk of packages will have ddebs
<didrocks> seb128: talk for yourself!
<didrocks> seb128: happy Thursday btw :p
<didrocks> (you are working tomorrow, isn't it? ;))
<seb128> didrocks, ;-)
<pitti> darkxst: able yes, but I didn't find time to set it up yet
<darkxst> pitti, ok, whenever you get a chance
<darkxst> also are we able to add bug patterns?
<pitti> darkxst: yes; I propose we just use the normal ubuntu ones
<darkxst> pitti, ok
<GunnarHj> seb128: Good morning, Seb! Can you please add a Precise task at bug 1161953?
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1161953 in language-selector (Ubuntu) "gnome-language-selector crashed with TypeError in _expand_pkg_pattern(): not enough arguments for format string" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1161953
<davmor2> seb128: I've hit an issue, this problem with the album art I have images galore but I have no idea where to file it :)
<seb128> GunnarHj, done
<seb128> GunnarHj, hey
<seb128> davmor2, if it's happening in different places ... gstreamer1.0 I guess
<davmor2> seb128: right will do
<davmor2> seb128: I've made this private as it contains the link to the file and I've subscribed you so you can pass it around and see what I see.  I'm going to do a fresh i386 install today and see if I see the same thing there too.  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gstreamer1.0/+bug/1164928
<ubot2`> davmor2: Error: launchpad bug 1164928 not found
<seb128> davmor2, thanks
<davmor2> seb128: precise and quantal both show the album art only raring that isn't, however it does show the online stuff in the dash until you download it :)
<xnox> larsu_: I mean, I don't even understand how come it does work a bit actually after your review =)))))
<xnox> will try to fix up later.
<Sweetshark> seb128, bdrung: https://plus.google.com/u/0/101094190333184858950/posts/byfaUDmpYCn -- do we want to land that in raring proper still? if so, how so?
<bdrung_> Sweetshark: i want it in raring. we need to have it in until 17th (the final freeze)
<bdrung_> Sweetshark: can you prepare the release in git and provide the orig tarballs?
<bdrung_> Sweetshark: btw, are you aware of bug #1153350?
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1153350 in indicator-appmenu (Ubuntu) "LibreOffice4 Global Menu Items Do Not Highlight on Mouse Hover" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1153350
<jhodapp> Laney, ping
<bdrung_> Sweetshark: please also build depend on liblangtag
<mpt> mterry, hi. I'm looking at bug 1077205. If there were, say, 20 updates, how long would it take for Software Updater to compile and display the changelogs for all of them, concatenated together? A second or two? Ten seconds? Thirty seconds?
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1077205 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "update-manager should have a view that shows the changelogs together for all changes that that will be applied" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1077205
<mterry> mpt, the delay in doing that is mostly network based.  We'd have to download each changelog separately
<mterry> mpt, downloading one right now takes a second or two
<mpt> hm
<jhodapp> Laney, I'm curious if you have plans to package and push out the latest gst-plugins-bad v1.0.6? If not for a release, I am wondering if you could package it up for me for use in Ubuntu Touch development. Obviously I'd be interested in the armhf and -dev packages.
<Laney> jhodapp: You caught me just as I got back from hols :-)
<Laney> I'll look at that next week and see what the changes are
<jhodapp> Laney, awesome :)
<jhodapp> Laney, ok...not to put too much pressure on you because someone else might be able to help if you can't, but I'll be waiting on this package soon to continue my development
<Laney> I assume monday will be fine :-)
<jhodapp> Laney, absolutely
<jhodapp> Laney, thanks for your willingness to help out
<Laney> no worries
<seb128> Laney, \o/
<Laney> hey seb128
<Laney> what's up?
<seb128> Laney, had some good holidays?
<seb128> Laney, just good to see you after those 2 weeks ;-)
<seb128> Laney, enjoy your end of holidays w.e
<Laney> lots of lovely walking, even if a bit snowy!
<seb128> Laney, and don't forgot peer reviews if you didn't do those
 * Laney mainly came online to delete email :P
<seb128> ^ everybody as well
<Laney> yeah I didn't - just got one to do this evening
<seb128> that's to be done for today
<Laney> need to go to the post office to get a delivery though, so later
<seb128> Laney, have fun ;-)
<Laney> bye!
<Sweetshark> bdrung_: preparing in git and tarballs, sure cando. liblangtag nope, not in main.
<seb128> desrt, hey, when do you plan to do a glib 2.36.1 release? just asking because I don't want to do 2 uploads and I'm pondering backporting those patches or waiting for a tarball
<Trevinho> pitti: did you read my ping about logind and indicator-session?
<bdrung_> Sweetshark: the MIR for liblangtag is approved (bug #1161087)
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1161087 in liblangtag (Ubuntu) "[MIR] liblangtag" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1161087
<desrt> seb128: i was planning to follow the schedule
<desrt> ie: apr 15
<Sweetshark> bdrung_: k, I still find it icky to do that change this late. Using the packaged liblangtab has no enduser testing on Ubuntu and only very limited testing on debian.
<bdrung_> using the packaged liblangtab has the advantage of making SRUs simpler
<bdrung_> there shouldn't be that big difference between the bundled and the packaged liblangtab, right?
<seb128> desrt, sounds good, thanks
<Sweetshark> bdrung_: no, there shouldnt. but the devil is in the details. "not tested" means "doesnt work (at least somewhere)". There are still things that can go wrong (e.g. doesnt link on armhf for example) that are really painful with a builds-in-a-day-package.
<bdrung_> Sweetshark: does link on one arch, but not on the other?
<Sweetshark> bdrung_: hey, liblangtab did only fail on armhf ;)
<bdrung_> Sweetshark: yes and that an easy to detect and fixable problem :)
<Sweetshark> bdrung_: true. k, I will add it, but you take full responsibility for that ;)
<bdrung_> Sweetshark: okay. i hope that i wont regret it
<jbicha> cyphermox: hey could you take a look into bug 1072518? restarting networking is a great way to crash Unity or GNOME Shell and things shouldn't be that fragile
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1072518 in ubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Restarting network crashes (apparently) the desktop manager" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1072518
<cyphermox> ahah, cute
<tkamppeter> jasoncwarner_, hi
<pitti> Trevinho: no, I didn't
<Trevinho> pitti: hey
<Trevinho> pitti: it was about https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-session/+bug/1165027/
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1165027 in indicator-session "Indicator-sound Hibernate/Suspend capabilities are inconsistent with unity dialogue" [Medium,In progress]
<Trevinho> pitti: charles is working on it now, though
<Trevinho> pitti: another thing I've noticed is that logind has not a way to inform that suspend/hibernate support changes...
<Trevinho> pitti: but it seems to happen when installing a kernel
<pitti> Trevinho: polkit-desktop-privileges got fixed today, to disallow hibernate in polkit the same way as it's disabled in upower
<Trevinho> pitti: ah, so that bug is not valid in the sense that they're always showing the same value, isn't it?
<pitti> Trevinho: not sure what you mean with this, but polkit will now disallow hibernate regardless of whether you ask upower or logind
<rickspencer3> seb128, on my netbook, the ubuntuone control panel is not starting up, not sure what package to file a bug against, or is this a known issue?
<Trevinho> pitti: mh, I mean that for example in my notebook logind is returning "yes" on CanHibernate, and Upower is returning false...
<pitti> Trevinho: right, that's fixed now
<seb128> rickspencer3, can you run "ubuntuone-control-panel-qt" and copy the output?
<pitti> rickspencer3: ubuntuone-control-panel-qt starts here, FTR
<seb128> wfm as well
<rickspencer3> thanks pitti
<rickspencer3> uh
<rickspencer3> so that's not installed
<rickspencer3> lol
<rickspencer3> I wonder if that's part of the problem :)
<Trevinho> pitti: cool
<davmor2> seb128: so the raring i386 install from todays iso is displaying the same issues as my amd64 version ref the album art
<seb128> davmor2, I'm unsure about the dash
<seb128> but I think that rhythmbox/indicator-sound is a rhythmbox bug
<seb128> I found a commit upstream I need to try
<davmor2> seb128: from what I understand the dash pulls in from the RB db so that could be the cause there too maybe
<davmor2> seb128: you have to open RB once before the dash shows your local music at least
<seb128> oh ok, that makes sense
<seb128> I will keep you updated
<davmor2> seb128: if you package a fix I'm more than happy to confirm it
<seb128> davmor2, thanks
 * didrocks waves good evening and week-end!
<cyphermox> jbicha: not much to say there but "then don't do that"
<cyphermox> it's pretty much expected behavior:
<cyphermox> sudo restart networking will run through the stopping part for that upstart job, which emits deconfiguring-networking
<dobey> might anyone in here know the answer to http://askubuntu.com/q/278233/50737?sgp=2 ? rickspencer3 maybe?
<cyphermox> jbicha: that's the stop condition for the system dbus bus
<cyphermox> jbicha: so obviously lots of things belly-up
<cyphermox> jbicha: I agree that gnome-settings-daemon shouldn't crash though, but you'll hardly get away with very many things working after doing that anyway
<jbicha> cyphermox: I don't know much about upstart but is breaking the desktop really necessary?
<cyphermox> necessary, no, but it's expected that things will go bad if you shut down dbus
<cyphermox> I mean, everything is impacted by that
<cyphermox> NetworkManager, upower, etc.
<jbicha> it's necessary for dbus to be killed?
<cyphermox> it's part of what needs to happen at shutdown, yes
<cyphermox> and the networking job isn't meant to be used to do whatever people are trying to do with it
<cyphermox> the best I can say, is that perhaps it could be renamed to avoid this kind of issue
<cyphermox> bring up your concerns on the ubuntu-devel@ mailing list, I think this belongs being better investigated and discussed.
<jbicha> ok thanks
<cyphermox> but the quick answer is; networking isn't to be used for that, ifup and ifdown are the tools for the job
<cyphermox> (or restarting the network-manager job)
<cyphermox> there's further things that could explode just by restarting networking too, as it will at least bring up/down the lo interface.. you probably want to avoid that as much as possible
<jbicha> well we could just mark the bug invalid and tell people to use sudo service network-manager restart if needed instead
<cyphermox> well, there is a genuine bug in gnome-settings-daemon -- it should be crashing because of this
<cyphermox> I updated the bug already
<rickspencer3> hi dobey
<rickspencer3> so, I don't think that functionality has been added to the sdk so far as I know
<rickspencer3> dobey, I know they've recently added "side stage vs. main stage" though
<dobey> sdk meaning the plug-in to qtcreator?
<dobey> (hi :)
<rickspencer3> dobey, no, I would think Ubuntu Components
<rickspencer3> I would expect MainView would have an formFactorChanged signal or something that you can respond to
<rickspencer3> but I don't know if it's been even really designed into the API yet, much less implemented
<dobey> ok
<dobey> so would basically have to have different builds for each format, right now?
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-04-06
<popey> is the experimental prevalidation ppa known to be broken right now?
<popey> I have two machines on which compiz fails to start - well, dies
<popey> hmmm
<popey> seems I'm not using that ppa after all, but repo unity/compiz..
<popey> fully up to date and unity wont start in a guest session
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5683084
<popey> Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
<popey> 0x00007fffdafc1785 in getCompPluginVTable20090315_unityshell () from /usr/lib/compiz/libunityshell.so
<popey> bug 1162093
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1162093 in Unity "Unity broken after latest update; compiz crashed with SIGSEGV in getCompPluginVTable20090315_unityshell()" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1162093
<popey> bug 1162075
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1162075 in unity (Ubuntu) "compiz crashed with SIGSEGV in getCompPluginVTable20090315_unityshell()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1162075
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-04-07
<thumper> morning robert_ancell
<robert_ancell> thumper, hello
<thumper> robert_ancell: who knows about ATI graphics stuff...
<thumper> robert_ancell: I have a friend having issues trying to install ubuntu ... https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/226027
<robert_ancell> thumper, RAOF and bryceh are probably the best people to ask
<thumper> I'll hit up RAOF once he starts...
<RAOF> thumper: Launchpad Answers? Oldschool!
<thumper> hi RAOF
<thumper> RAOF: apparently someone on irc pointed him there :)
<thumper> and he didn't know better
<RAOF> thumper: So, there's not much to do without some form of logs.
<thumper> RAOF: how can we get logs when he is left at a blank screen?
<RAOF> This is a good question.
<thumper> I feel bad for him because he asked me prior to buying this machine if it would work
<thumper> and I said: I don't see why not
<thumper> and now he is having trouble
 * thumper sighs
<RAOF> Yeah.
<RAOF> I also don't see why it wouldn't work.
<thumper> me neither, but my understanding of graphics stack is somewhat limited
<popey> thumper: can he not drop to tty and "apport-collect <bugnumber>" ?
<thumper> popey: I think it is during the installer process, so no...
<thumper> popey: or put another way, I have no idea
<thumper> if he turns off secure-boot, he can get the live DVD working
<popey> ah
<popey> sorry, missed that bit
<thumper> popey: np
<popey> also, fun bug of the day - bug 1165927
<thumper> so the graphics card obviously works to an extent
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1165927 in linux (nUbuntu) "List with CRITICAL tons of bugs, dont have the time to add them seperately" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1165927
<thumper> haha
<popey> thumper: yeah, I have zero experience of ATI - for exactly this reason
<thumper> popey: because it doesn't work?
<RAOF> It's not clear whether he's tried booting normally after disabling secure boot (which should not be necessary).
<thumper> RAOF: well, if he disables secure boot, he can't see his win8 partition
<thumper> or more precisely, the installer doesn't recognise the win8 partition as an OS
<thumper> so wants to blow it all away
<RAOF> thumper: He can get the live DVD *working*? The question suggests that he gets only a blank screen?
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-03-31
<sabdfl> igjools
<Laney> hullo!
<seb128> hey Laney
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> Laney, had a good w.e?
<Laney> seb128: yeah, was nice thank you - we had nice weather so bike rides and beer in the sun
<Laney> you?
<seb128> nice!
<seb128> saturday was nice and sunny here, I mostly enjoyed the weather and played some tennis outside
<seb128> yesterday was less nice weather wise and I didn't do anything special (washed the car, watched election results on tv, ...)
<didrocks> Laney: as you can see, the second part was "pizza and beers" I guess ^ :)
<Laney> Election result drinking games, sounds like fun ;-)
<seb128> lol
<didrocks> "everytime one side will tell the other is totally wrong, you have to drink" :p
<seb128> nor far from that indeed ;-)
<didrocks> heh
 * seb128 googles and find http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2012/may/04/cities-vote-against-elected-mayors
<seb128> Laney, how are mayors selected in the u.k if it's not through elections?
<Laney> most places don't have them
<seb128> how are the town handled?
<Laney> by an elected council
<seb128> oh ok
<Laney> which has a leader selected from the councillors
<seb128> k
<seb128> sounds like a mayor of some sort, just without the title
<Laney> those votes were offering the cities to replace the leader of the council with a mayor
<Laney> who was directly elected
<seb128> that's what we have ;-)
<seb128> seems like you guys didn't like that though?
<Laney> quite a lot of politicians argued against them at the time
<Laney> from what I remember the main arguments were costs and tension between the council and the mayor leading to political problems
<seb128> I guess our system is a bit in between
<seb128> we have different lists of councillors, the first name on the list is elected mayor if the list wins
<Laney> but some places do have them already, as councils have the power to decide to switch to a system with a mayor if they want
<seb128> so you vote for a list
<Laney> these votes were to override the councils that didnt want to do that
<Laney> ah, yeah, we don't have that
<Laney> you vote for the people standing in your local area
<seb128> maybe I misuse "councillors"/"concil" there
<Laney> they are the elected people
<seb128> typically e.g in my town they have 30 seats to the town council
<seb128> and we have 2 "lists" of local people with 30 names on each
<seb128> so we voted for them
<seb128> one won with a score of 78%
<seb128> so the leader of that list becomes mayor to start
<seb128> then the council is made from the lists, 50% of the seats are allocated to the winning list to start
<Laney> that's interesting
<seb128> then they dispatch the other 50% to all the list in proportion to the score
<Laney> are the lists all people from the same party?
<seb128> which means the winning list got 50%+78%*remaining seats
<seb128> depends of where you live
<seb128> small villages/towns don't always affiliate a list to a party
<Laney> so you guarantee to have one group of people with a majority
<seb128> in big cities yes, they are usually representing one of the parties
<seb128> yes
<Laney> here you can have 'no overall control'
<Laney> if the votes in each area go that way
<seb128> they do
<seb128> how is the no overall control working?
<seb128> they force the other parties in places even if that's not what people want?
<Laney> it means that nobody has a majority of the seats
<Laney> so they have to make a local coalition or a minority administration which has to work things out on a case-by-case basis
<seb128> I see
<seb128> funny to see how things are different between countries ;-)
<Laney> also people like to use the local elections as a protest against the national government
<seb128> same here
<Laney> so you get the opposition parties gaining in mid term years
<Laney> which is fun
<seb128> which is why we had a ton of town turning to the right wing this time
<Laney> it's weird, because local government probably has a more direct impact on peoples daily lives
<Laney> so it should be a considered vote really
<seb128> indeed
<Laney> oh, cool, I can reproduce that glib test failure easily
<Laney> (switching to work :P)
<seb128> (same here ;-)
 * Laney tries $idea
<seb128> Laney, you can probably grab desrt earlier in the day this week, he's in europe for the fdo summit
<Laney> busy fixing mpris eh
<Laney> $idea[1] works
<Laney> also means the fault lies with smcv's patch and not desrt
<Laney> :-)
<seb128> Laney, no fun if you can't even blame desrt!
<dobey> is everyone else having the new lock screen requiring to be unlocked twice?
<RAOF> dobey: I've heard others complain about that, and it sometimes happens for me.
<Laney> probably https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1292451
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1292451 in unity (Ubuntu) "screensaver re-locks itself after unlocking if the configured screen-off timer goes off while screen is locked" [High,Confirmed]
<dobey> hmm
<Laney> if not, peruse https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bugs?field.tag=lockscreen
<dobey> sounds like it
<Laney> hoping for a fix for these RSNâ¢
<dobey> great
<ritz> Sweetshark,  what do you think about - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/glib2.0/+bug/1214352 ? wrt lo/gio fuse
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1214352 in LibreOffice Productivity Suite "GUINT32/64_SWAP_LE_BE macros do not enclose val argument in parentheses" [Critical,Confirmed]
<ritz> any probability this might ever be included in precise ?
<GunnarHj> xnox: Thanks for taking a look at that bug. And yes, please don't trust the patch - check out the context carefully before applying. ;-)
<GunnarHj> xnox: For example, I don't understand what pkgsel/language-packs is and how its value is set. Maybe that's what should be changed instead...
<xnox> GunnarHj: i think one presseeds that one, in fully automated installations.
<xnox> GunnarHj: i'll check our automated l18n test-cases.
<GunnarHj> xnox: Ok..
<xnox> GunnarHj: actually maybe that's what we should do first, add a test-case for this.
<ogra_> does anyone know when (and why) the behavior of cursor keys in eog changed ?
<xnox> GunnarHj: so when an en_US installation is done and an en_GB user is created, it doesn't get full language support nor is prompted to install one?
<xnox> GunnarHj: or what's the test-case here? let me read the bug again.
<GunnarHj> xnox: Right.
<xnox> GunnarHj: how does one create a different locale user in the UI?
<ogra_> i usually use it via ssh -X from my precise desktop ... there i can use the cursor and pgUp/Dn keys to navigate inside a picture ... now i used it for the first time on trusty ... there the keys only navigate the gallery
<xnox> GunnarHj: oh, i guess a different locale user can come from anywhere. E.g. ldap, etc.
<ogra_> (how do i navigate in pics now)
<GunnarHj> xnox: System Settings -> User Accounts has a language setting possibility.
<xnox> GunnarHj: right, and on my machine it does offer "all types of English derivatives" yet not all of them are actually installed.
<xnox> ogra_: https://xkcd.com/512/ much? =)))
<GunnarHj> xnox: The translations are indeed installed, or else they would not appear.
<GunnarHj> xnox: But the full language support is not.
<ogra_> xnox, ah, well ... ever tried to use eog with a bootchart ?
<GunnarHj> xnox: I.e. until you install them when language-selector prompts you to do so.
<seb128> ogra_, eog works fien on charts?
<xnox> GunnarHj: ack.
<ogra_> seb128, i guess depends with what input device ... with a touchpad it sucks for bootcharts, scrollwheel/sidebar doesnt scroll but zoom etc
<seb128> ogra_, click and dnd
<ogra_> seb128, my touchpad isnt big enough/not accelerated enough ... that ends in me "walking" the touchpad to get from top to bottom
<ogra_> i usually use the cursor keys to scroll up/down
<seb128> ogra_, you can probably gsettings org.gnome.eog.view scroll-wheel-zoom false
<ogra_> which works fine in precise
<ogra_> oh !
<ogra_> thts helpful
<rickspencer3> seb128, may I presume that I should not have 2 network indicators on my desktop?
<seb128> rickspencer3, if you installed the touch one you should have 2
<rickspencer3> seb128, hmmm, I don't think I installed it
<seb128> rickspencer3, it comes if you install e.g unity8
<rickspencer3> I mean, I must have, but don't recall
<seb128> or ubuntu-system-settings
<rickspencer3> seb128, hmmm, don't think I did that, unless it came with the sdk
<seb128> rickspencer3, try removing indicator-network and see what else gets uninstalled
<rickspencer3> seb128, I did apt-get remove ubuntu-system-settings ...
<rickspencer3> and got prompted with this ...
<rickspencer3> The following packages will be REMOVED:
<rickspencer3>   account-plugin-ubuntuone ubuntu-system-settings
<rickspencer3>   ubuntu-system-settings-online-accounts unity-scope-click
<rickspencer3> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 4 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
<rickspencer3> seb128, I bet I have some weird PPAs and stuff
<rickspencer3> so ...
<seb128> rickspencer3, so you have the touch settings installed
 * rickspencer3 shrugs
<rickspencer3> sorry to bug you
<seb128> no worry
<seb128> rickspencer3, we have a bug open discussing disabling the desktop profile of indicator-network
<seb128> rickspencer3, that would avoid those issues
<seb128> rickspencer3, but it would also mean you couldn't install it to test it on a desktop, since it wouldn't show
<seb128> so it's a tradeoff situation
<jose> hey guys, anyone from the desktop team around?
<seb128> jose, hey, better to ask your question if you have one
<jose> seb128: oh, I was wanting to invite any of you guys to give an Ubuntu Open Week session on behalf of the Classroom team
<seb128> jose, oh, thanks ... do you have a topic in mind?
<seb128> what sort of sessions are you looking for?
<seb128> when is it as well? :-)
<jose> well, Open Week is all about getting new contributors in your teams, so maybe explain what do you guys do on the team and how can someone contribute?
<jose> April 22nd to 24th, 15 to 20 UTC daily
<seb128> jose, we have a team meeting tomorrow at 15h30UTC, I'm going to mention it there/ask if anyone is interested
<jose> cool, thank you!
<seb128> yw!
<seb128> thanks for inviting us ;-)
<jose> always a pleasure to have you guys there :)
<ricotz> seb128, hi, commented on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rasqal/+bug/1298313
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1298313 in rasqal (Ubuntu) "Sync rasqal 0.9.32-1 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Incomplete]
<seb128> ricotz, hey
<seb128> ricotz, I'm unsure about things like "Updated the SPARQL parser to use and require Bison 3.0"
<seb128> ricotz, anyway, I'm done with sponsoring for today so let's see if somebody else is wanting to pick that one
<ricotz> seb128, alright, thanks for looking at it so far
<seb128> yw!
<seb128> thanks for updating the bug with the details ;-)
<Sweetshark> ritz: including fix for bug 1214352 that in precise proper would mean to update gio and recompile everything that uses the header ....
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1214352 in LibreOffice Productivity Suite "GUINT32/64_SWAP_LE_BE macros do not enclose val argument in parentheses" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1214352
<kenvandine> xnox, i want request a landing silo for content-hub today, which will include your branch
<kenvandine> xnox, however, it no longer merges cleanly,  i fixed it in lp:~ken-vandine/content-hub/spped-up-no-op
<kenvandine> xnox, can you merge that into your branch and push it?
<xnox> kenvandine: sure!
<kenvandine> xnox, sorry we didn't land it last time, the amount of change was a bit overwhelming :)
<xnox> kenvandine: done.
<kenvandine> xnox, thx
<Pa^2> Acer laptop running 13.10 suspends correctly from upper right menu, when suspended via lid close touch screen does not work.  Any thoughts?
<kenvandine> xnox, sorry... in my attempt to fix the merge conflict without pulling in other unmerged branches, i missed a line in my fix...
<kenvandine> xnox, http://paste.ubuntu.com/7185843/
<xnox> kenvandine: serves me right for trusting you, and not at least test compiling this =)
<kenvandine> xnox, sorry :)
<kenvandine> i test compiled it in another branch... but trusted myself to copy over the changes to a pristine branch :)
<kenvandine> xnox, don't forget to push that, we put it in the silo 11 for landing
<kenvandine> xnox, thx
<xnox> =)
<Sweetshark> So the good news is: LibreOffice autopkgtests did run happily on https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com. The bad news is: there was one line of spurious output to stderr and jenkins got offended and marked it a failure.
<xnox> Sweetshark: allows-stderr is your friend? =)
<xnox> Sweetshark: or ask for libreoffice test failure to ignored for one last time.
<attente> robert_ancell: hi, is there a way for an indicator to detect when the screen is locked?
<robert_ancell> attente, yes, you can check in logind
<attente> robert_ancell: thanks!
<Sweetshark> xnox: I guess i dont have to ask as the package is already in main. ;)
<Sweetshark> xnox: The best is likely to do a "2>&1" explicitly only on that one command creating the known-harmless output.
<Sweetshark> ... which is doing a fake configure for a build we never run (but we need the configure output to run the tests ...).
<xnox> =)
<Sweetshark> http://www.zdf.de/ZDFmediathek#/beitrag/video/2121838/WISO-Sendung-vom-31-M%C3%A4rz-2014 <- awesome 3 minute feature of Ubuntu and LibreOffice on the german equivalent of BCC right between the evening news and the feature movie is awesome (roughly minutes 14-20).
<robert_ancell> dobey, what process is the software center using for landing merges? Should I do anything more for https://code.launchpad.net/~robert-ancell/software-center/lp1281317/+merge/212971 or will someone merge and release it?
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-04-01
<seb128> good morning desktopers!
<hikiko> hi seb128 :)
<Laney> greeeeeeeetings
<seb128> hey hikiko Laney
<hikiko> and Laney :)
<Laney> hey hey
<Laney> how are you guys?
<hikiko> how are uyou people?
<Laney> ha
<hikiko> haha
<Laney> doing good, fun climbing session last night
<seb128> doing good, fun tennis session last night
<seb128> ;-)
<hikiko> hahaha
<Laney> (we can carry this on)
<Laney> my elbow is recovering from its injury
<seb128> lucky you, my wrist is still hurting :/
<Laney> ah damn, thought we could have
<Laney> you still played on it?
<seb128> well, my arm is better
<seb128> but I did some "didn't hold the racket strong enough" and slightly hurt my wrist a week ago
<seb128> tennis is not a sport to play if you don't like small injuries :p
<Laney> heh
<Laney> I have a tiny cut in my thumb that's right where I want to press it on the keyboard
<tjaalton> seb128: you're not supposed to squeeze it too hard ;)
<seb128> tjaalton, haha
<tjaalton> just lock your wrist, or you're in trouble
<seb128> right, well I've been sloppy/didn't lock it properly a few times :/
<seb128> but I learnt from it :p
<seb128> (also hit the ball in front, when it's already over you "body-line" it's less fun for the arm/wrist to try to hit it back)
<darkxst> hey seb128, Laney
<seb128> hey darkxst, how are you?
<darkxst> seb128, good, finally have internet back!
<seb128> nice! what happened that you didn't have it anymore?
<seb128> I though you were travelling or on holidays or something
<darkxst> seb128, ISP stuffed up, we are moving soon and booked that in, then they disconnected it immediately
<seb128> oh, I see
<darkxst> holidays come soon ;), 10 days of climbing !
<Laney> I'LL BE THERE
<darkxst> Laney, sure come! its a fair travel for you though!
<Laney> sadly so
<darkxst> anyway I looked at renamed gnome-desktop3.10 package, its a complete pain to do without compeltely forking the package and renaming things within the build system
<darkxst> and it seems way to late to land this stuff now? so would it be possible to ship g-c-c 3.8 for 14.04
<darkxst> and then update renamed gnome-desktop and g-s-d/g-c-c for 14.04.1?
<darkxst> i.e is it even possible to land backports in the LTS point releases?
<Laney> Seems unlikely
<Laney> but it might become more feasible to do it in a PPA then
<seb128> Laney, well, I guess they are going to want to build the LTS .1 with those packages, can a flavor build its LTS iso using ppa sources?
<seb128> how does that work for e.g security updates?
<Laney> No I don't think you can do that :(
<seb128> right, what I though
<darkxst> Laney, I menat not the PPA, but -backports?
<attente> seb128: hey, i'm trying to get indicator-keyboard to use the logind dbus api, but don't really know how to get the permissions right for it
<seb128> attente, hey, how are you? in what tz are you now? ;-)
<attente> seb128: still stuck in nz :)
<seb128> "stuck" ;-)
<seb128> attente, what do you want to use logind for/what's the permission issue?
<attente> seb128: indicator keyboard needs to know when the user locks their screen
<seb128> why?
<attente> because if an ibus IM is selected at the time of lock, we want to try to change to the user's next best keyboard layout
<seb128> hum, is that because ibus doesn't work on the lock screen?
<seb128> is that specific to the new unity lock?
<attente> well, as much as how we had gnome-screensaver only cycling through keyboard layouts before
<attente> we don't use ibus IMs in the greeter
<attente> and we don't list any ibus IMs in the indicator menu (with the most recent change)
<attente> so it's a bit weird to have an ibus IM selected when they're not available in the menu iteself
<attente> sorry to spring it on you so close to release
<seb128> no worry
<seb128> I'm just trying to understand the situation ;-)
<seb128> ideally to me it looks like ibus should be usable on the lock screen (though I guess that might not make sense, since password are things you need to be able to input on a vt ideally)
<seb128> anyway, going back to logind
<seb128> what permission issue do you get?
<seb128> I'm also unsure it's the right interface to check if the screen is locked
<seb128> Trevinho, andyrock: ^ what would be the right way to check if screen is locked?
<attente> seb128: not sure exactly, just that dbus rejects the send message to the system bus
<attente> ** (indicator-keyboard-service:28554): CRITICAL **: file main.c: line 4268: unexpected error: GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.AccessDenied: Rejected send message, 2 matched rules; type="method_call", sender=":1.420" (uid=1000 pid=28554 comm="lib/indicator-keyboard-service --force --use-gtk ") interface="org.freedesktop.login1.Manager" member="GetSessionByPid" error name="(unset)" requested_reply="0" destination="org.freedesktop.
<andyrock> seb128, using com.canonical.Unity.Session ?
<andyrock> seb128, should work if you monitor the signals
<seb128> andyrock, see backlog, attente wants to modify indicator-keyboard's behaviour when the screen is locked
<seb128> attente, what do you use logind for? can't you just use ^ on the user session bus?
<andyrock> seb128, you can use profiles for it no?
<attente> andyrock: looks promising, i'll try it
<attente> thanks!
<seb128> andyrock, yeah, as well
<seb128> well, I'm unsure about the profiles
<seb128> they are both exported
<seb128> you still need a signal telling you "locking happened, change things"
<andyrock> there is a signal
<seb128> attente, I guess you are not going to join for the meeting later today? (middle of the night still for you right?)
<andyrock> seb128, also do you know where gnome turn off the screen?
<attente> guess not seb128
<seb128> andyrock, btw, several users confirmed on that bug that the double lock issue isn't solve, I can reproduce if I do twice the guest-user->log back loop here
<andyrock> yeah I'm working on it
<andyrock> it does work here
<seb128> andyrock, gnome/unity-settings-daemon power plugin (which uses the gnome-screensaver interface for idle)
<seb128> attente, ok ... can you update me on what issues you are working on then? ;-)
<andyrock> ah ok thanks!
<attente> seb128: sure
<attente> seb128: mainly (trying) getting the accelerators to work in the inkscape/emacs/eclipse menus
<attente> seb128: i had to patch gtk for it to work though...
<attente> seb128: and it doesn't really work for upstream eclipse, just ours
<attente> (getting accelerators to be visible i mean)
<seb128> k
<seb128> I noticed those were not listed for chromium either
<seb128> I guess it's the same issue?
<attente> i didn't realize it was a chromium problem
 * attente checks
<attente> i see accelerators in the menus there...
<seb128> hum, are those the "Ctrl+Q" next to quit for example? (just to make sure we are speaking about the same thing)
<seb128> well, maybe that's not a new issue
<attente> seb128: oh. seems to fix it too
<seb128> great
<seb128> is the gtk patch up for review somewhere?
<attente> https://code.launchpad.net/~attente/gtk/x-canonical-accel
<seb128> I can try to get larsu to have a look if he surfaces back (he's at the fdo summit with desrt, not sure what happened to them though, they didn't show up at all since yesterday)
<seb128> thanks
<attente> ok
<seb128> I see you pushed a few good branches/fixes, I'm going to try to get them through review/landing in the next days
<attente> seb128: thanks!
<seb128> how do you refresh the keyboard icons btw? I'm unsure if we have that documented somewhere but it looks like we should
<seb128> yw!
<attente> seb128: yeah.. i guess i didn't :x
<attente> seb128: i'll add a small readme to i-k
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> looking to your assigned bugs I think you have the one I had flagged as "we should fix that for trusty" under control
<seb128> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-keyboard/+bug/1293548 was the other one on my list
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1293548 in indicator-keyboard (Ubuntu) "Indicator disappears when switching to non default layout" [High,Confirmed]
<seb128> I see you have a libindicator mp up for it
<seb128> attente, thanks for the status update ;-)
<attente> seb128: np! for that one, i couldn't tell if it was a gtk bug or a libindicator bug
<seb128> there is something weird happening to the indicator sometimes though
<Trevinho> attente: can't you just check the indicator profile? Indicators are loaded with desktop-lockscreen profile when in lock mode
<Trevinho> That's also how we customize indicator session
<seb128> attente, "Pinying" is usually a blue glyph icon, but sometime it ends up being a grey rectangle with letters (similar to "classic" layouts, but with a different bg color)
<attente> Trevinho: to quote seb128 "you still need a signal telling you "locking happened, change things""
<seb128> Trevinho, the issue is to change the active layout/input method, not only the indicator visual
<attente> seb128: i know that issue, seems to happen randomly at startup
<attente> seb128: what's the other "we should fix that for trusty" bug?
<seb128> attente, the keybindings not listed in menus issue you are working on
<Trevinho> seb128: ok, but still we need to remove to menu item to open the keyboard settings
<seb128> e.g inkscape lost those
<attente> oh ok
<attente> inkscape will have them back with those two branches
<seb128> Trevinho, https://code.launchpad.net/~attente/indicator-keyboard/1291962-2/+merge/213346 if you fancy doing the review ;-)
<Trevinho> :)
<seb128> attente, right, things are looking good for release, thanks! (also keep in mind that we are going to switch LTS updates for 12.04 users only a .1, so we still have some time for SRUs/polish after the release)
<seb128> attente, said differently, don't loose sleep over lack of polish/small bugs for release
<Laney> looks like he's losing sleep currently :P
<attente> Laney: it's not even my bedtime yet :P
<Trevinho> seb128: when is the. 1 planned?
<seb128> Trevinho, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseSchedule
<seb128> oh, that doesn't have it
<seb128> unsure but likely mid-summer
<Laney> attente: man, I'm so old
<Trevinho> Eh no ;)
<Laney> when are you back in .ca?
<seb128> Trevinho, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule for comparaison
<Laney> what does "Missing callback called fullpath" from gio mean?
<Trevinho> seb128: ah btw I've finally fixed that text rendering issue for Radiance... You should eventually get slick fonts. It wasn't usable for me before, but never realized why.
<Laney> happyaron: ubuntukylin-default-settings needs updating for ibus-db-pinyin-android (typed that from memory so maybe wrong) removal
<happyaron> Laney: already in my list
<Laney> ok
<Laney> getting image build failures about it :)
<happyaron> :)
<seb128> Trevinho, nice
<dobey> how can i nuke the hud from orbit so that pressing alt won't open it ever in the future?
<dobey> i disable the keybinding, but it keeps returning :(
<seb128> dobey, settings -> keyboard -> change the keybinding?
<seb128> that's weird
<seb128> well, changing work fine here
<dobey> yeah it works fine for a while, but it keeps getting reset
<dobey> on my laptop
<seb128> k, never saw that
<seb128> but I don't unset it, I set it to a less-likely-to-hit key
<hikiko> hello
<hikiko> wrong win :)
<Laney> I just found out that you can set a UTC GCal event to Reykjavik and it'll track timezone changes properly ;-)
 * Laney now knows when the desktop team meeting is
<seb128> Laney, lol
<seb128> the meeting is in 1h40
<Laney> yep!
<Laney> it works because Iceland is GMT without any DST
<seb128> utc is easy, no need of Reykjavik
 * ogra_ thinks thats a secret hint that Laney wants a sprint there 
<Laney> hot springs...
 * seb128 doesn't understand what laney is speaking about
<seb128> you can add utc tz in your indicator
<ogra_> seb128, but not to gcal ... at google
<Laney> you say what timezone the event is in
<Laney> and gcal converts it to your home timezone
<seb128> oh, I see what you mean now
<seb128> there is no way to set to "utc"?
<Laney> but they don't have an actual UTC option
<seb128> shrug
<seb128> stupid google :p
<Laney> so you set it to iceland which turns out to be the same
<qengho> Android doesn't have a UTC clock option either.  First, pick continent, then city.  But, UTC is not a place.
<kenvandine> larsu, hey, i have a gsettings-qt question
<kenvandine> i have a click hook that runs, which uses gsettings-qt
<kenvandine> but sometimes it fails to commit
<kenvandine> i'm thinking maybe the hook is exiting before finishing with gsettings-qt
<kenvandine> larsu, or maybe it's worse than that... sometimes i see connection refused warnings for dconf
<kenvandine> (process:1962): dconf-WARNING **: failed to commit changes to dconf: Could not connect: Connection refused
<larsu> kenvandine: desrt says your dbus is gone
<larsu> is gdbus (the command line tool) working?
<kenvandine> i can only reproduce this when the click hook is run with pkcon
<kenvandine> if i run the hook myself it works fine
<larsu> hm, no idea sorry
<kenvandine> and i don't think it always fails from pkcon
<larsu> and we're being kicked out of the venue right now. bbl
<kenvandine> larsu, thx
<kenvandine> tedg, do you have any ideas ^^
<kenvandine> i think it only happens when the click hook runs from pkcon
<seb128> larsu, I don't like your venue :p
<tedg> Sorry, confused
<seb128> larsu, first no internet, then they kick you out
<tedg> I don't think I have enough backlog
<kenvandine> ah
<kenvandine>  (process:1962): dconf-WARNING **: failed to commit changes to dconf: Could not connect: Connection refused
<kenvandine> tedg, i see that in click-user-hooks.log
<kenvandine> so the content-hub hook fails to save the setting sometimes
<tedg> kenvandine, Hmm, nothing off hand, but I'd guess that it doesn't have the right dbus session address?
<kenvandine> tedg, of course that log file is pretty limited in info... no way to know for sure that warning is from my hook :)
<kenvandine> but i know sometimes it doesn't change when run on package update
<tedg> kenvandine, It's probably wheter it's run by the click-user-hooks upstart job or by the core update.
<kenvandine> running the hook myself works everytime
<tedg> kenvandine, Guessing that the upstart job works, and manually does not.
<tedg> But that'd probably be best discussed with cjwatson.
<kenvandine> wait... you mean the other way around?
<tedg> Guessing that it doesn't pull over the environment to the root part of it, and when flipping back doesn't get the session bus.
<kenvandine> it wouldn't be in this log if it wasn't run with click-user-hooks
<tedg> Oh, this is the upstart log?
<kenvandine> are there any other hooks that access dbus or gsettings?
<kenvandine> yes
<kenvandine> that is from click-user-hooks.log
<tedg> kenvandine, Ah, so it's needs to dep on dbus.
<tedg> kenvandine, Which it doesn't now.
<seb128> kenvandine, tedg: sorry, i'm going to ask you to move channel, we are about to start our weekly meeting
<tedg> kenvandine, Right now click-user-hooks can run before dbus
<kenvandine> oh... i see!
 * tedg gets kicked out like a larsu
<seb128> qengho, Sweetsha1k, mlankhorst, Laney, tkamppeter__, desrt(?), larsu(?), kenvandine: hey, it's meeting time
<qengho> yo.
<kenvandine> oy
<Sweetsha1k> o/
<tkamppeter> hi
<seb128> I hope everyone was happy about state of things in trusty beta, it's looking great ;-)
<seb128> let's get started
<seb128> qengho, hey
<qengho> Done: beta Chromium in PPA looks pretty good.
<qengho> Done: abandoned mental anguish about unavailable Flash plugins after I discovered a downloader package already in mulltiverse.
<qengho> In-progress: fixing minor bugs that come with the new internal toolkit.
<qengho> EOF
<seb128> qengho, thanks
<qengho> That upstream Beta should be made Stable in the next week or so.  Then, the PPA contents go into distro.
<seb128> well, that's getting close from release
<seb128> but I guess if it's not in release it can be SRUed?
<qengho> seb128: Yes. Not SRU exactly, but via security updates, yes.
<seb128> ok, makes sense
<seb128> qengho, thanks
<seb128> Sweetshark, hey
<Sweetshark> - 4.2.3~rc2 to trusty finished
<Sweetshark> - autopkgtests run on jenkins, unfortunately marked as a fail for a spurious stderr output https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Trusty/view/AutoPkgTest/job/trusty-adt-libreoffice/307/
<Sweetshark> - 3.5.7/precise update pending feedback of the security guys, but ready to go
<Sweetshark> - some more bug triage
<Sweetshark> - updating backups
<Sweetshark> - some more work on the great ./debian/rules cleanup in LibreOffice
<Sweetshark> EOF
<seb128> Sweetshark, thanks
<seb128> I need to ping the security team
<Sweetshark> 4.2.4 is scheduled for ~May, 6, we should SRU that quickly for the LTS. Im hoping to also do an update for bug 1008277 (which is trivial, but related to unity and was recently fixed upstream(
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1008277 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "[upstream] Recent menu botches file names" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1008277
<seb128> ok
<seb128> Sweetshark, thanks
<seb128> mlankhorst, hey
<seb128> no mlankhorst?
<seb128> Laney, your turn then!
 * Laney ponders staying silent for trolling purposes
<Laney> â¢ Investigated and fixed QML Date.timeZoneUpdated() bug, in distro now (after much time running AP tests)
<Laney> â¢ Investigated and fixed glib test failures which came from a Debian patch - new version pushed upstream
<Laney> â¢ FTBFS fixes vips gtkpod, sent upstream
<Laney> â¢ Investigate (with in_finity) a pkgbinarymangler bug where it created broken symlinks
<Laney> â¢ Many many FFe and queue reviews and other release-y exception-y discussions
<Laney> â¢ Poke at the tz selector in u-s-s to try and make it faster (not easy to move it to another thread, so trying some other optimisations)
<Laney> â¢ Hopeful ubuntuone-credentials x-building fix to keep u-s-s cross buildable (built, need to test)
<Laney> â¢ Fix whoopsie-preferences crashing when turning automatic crash reporting on, as we do on the phone (approved, need to upload)
<Laney> â
<seb128> Laney, thanks!
<seb128> tkamppeter, hey
<tkamppeter> - Google Summer of Code 2014: Some organizational work so that all worthwile applications for the Linux Foundation have a mentor and are accepted.
<tkamppeter> - CUPS: Coordination of getting Upstart support including socket activation fully integrated in the Debian package of CUPS, so that we can sync with Debian again after the release of Trusty.
<tkamppeter> - cups-filters: Released 1.0.50 working around PostScript interpreter bugs in printers from Toshiba and in old HP LaserJet printers and to let cups-browsed cope with colons in print server host names and IPs (IPv6).
<tkamppeter> - ghostscript: Fix bug of PCL-XL driver producing huge files from some input PDF files.
<tkamppeter> - Bugs.
<seb128> tkamppeter, thanks
<kenvandine> seb128, my turn?
<seb128> kenvandine, yes, sorry, 5 discussions in // here
<Laney> he's too busy trying to find a samba maintainer
<seb128> lol
<kenvandine> hahaha
<kenvandine> * Assorted content-hub bug fixes since last weeks landing, being tested in silo 11 now
<kenvandine> * landed fixes to the share component in ubuntu-ui-extras, hopefully we'll be seeing more share handlers soon
<seb128> Sweetshark, the security team says it's fine to upload the SRU for precise
<Sweetshark> seb128: k
<kenvandine> also, we've gotten downloads working from the browser using the download manager and content-hub
<kenvandine> not ready to land yet, but end to end works...
<kenvandine> need to get the transfer indicator in the middle there to finish it
<kenvandine>  /EOF
<bregma> seb128, is there someone who can help andyrock out with the gnome-screensaver/lock/power issues?  Especially someone who can reproduce them?
<seb128> bregma, sorry, in a meeting, coming back to you in a few minutes (we are almost done)
<andyrock> I can reproduce the power issue
<seb128> kenvandine, thanks ;-) (sorry I didn't have much slots to play with the new content-hub yet, I still want to look at it for ringtones)
<andyrock> but I can't fix it. Spent one week on g-s code trying to understand something
<kenvandine> seb128, no worries, i've just been focusing on bugs and polish
<seb128> ok, my turn
<seb128>  * trusty beta testing
<seb128>  * looked at some translation issues
<seb128>  * patch pilot day (queue 60 -> 30)
<seb128>  * desktop updates (totem-pl-parser, gdk-pixbuf, shotwell)
<seb128>  * debugged/fixed sessioninstaller not working with current gstreamer
<seb128>  * wrote a testcase for an uss reported issue which turned out to be a toolkit one
<seb128>  * looked at samba sharing not working, uploaded a fix (ubuntu delta dropped in merge)
<seb128>  * quite some bugs triage and debugging/forwarding of issues
<seb128>  * CI train landing (mostly indicators)
<seb128> </week>
<seb128> I'm currently reviewing some of u-s-s stacked branches, QA pinged about the autopilot ones that are stalled here
<seb128> .
<Laney> I got confused about the state of those, there seems to be a few in play
<seb128> ok, did I forget anyone? ;-) any question/other topic?
<Laney> thanks for looking
<seb128> yw!
<seb128> ok, no other topic
<seb128> </end of meeting>
<seb128> thanks everyone
<Laney> merci!
<seb128> bregma, andyrock: so, to help ... I need to check tonight with robert_ancell if he has free slots for that
<seb128> andyrock, being stucked for a week is not good, next time please ask on the channel or send emails
<seb128> either pick some people, or use the desktop list
<Laney> We have final freeze next week
<seb128> andyrock, you can't reproduce the double locking if you do "log in, use the indicator to start guest, close guest, log back from unity-greeter to your session, use the indicator to start guest, close guest, log back from unity-greeter to your session" ?
<Laney> I think we should take a decision on the lockscreen this week looking at progress on fixing the issues
<seb128> right
<seb128> that's basically what the discussion comes from, I pinged bregma telling him that it's about time we rollback if we decide the issues can't be fixed for release
<Laney> there's time for some work between .0 and .1 but the feature should be basically solid for release
<seb128> right, like the double lock and screen-never-turn-off need to be fixed for release
<Laney> nod
<Trevinho> larsu: I've been pinged by a guy who wants  to port Ambiance to Gshell, but... He told me that using it there the headerbar decorated windows are non-resizable... Just as it happens in unity. Might that be something theme-related?
<andyrock> seb128, nope
<andyrock> I can't reproduce it
<Trevinho> Laney: that seems related to an older bug than our new decorations https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-themes/+bug/1263317
<andyrock> bschaefer can't reproduce it too
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1263317 in Ubuntu theme "Not working on GTK 3 windows" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<seb128> andyrock, shrug
<seb128> andyrock, did you try a fresh trusty install in a vm or something?
<seb128> you guys have locally hacked version?
<Laney> Trevinho: 'that'?
<andyrock> seb128, nope all archive
<seb128> andyrock, I wonder what's the difference between our systems :/
<mlankhorst> seb128: sorry! was testing ubuntu on qxl. :P
<Laney> dobey: dirspec says it implements the xdg user dir spec, but I can't find it
<Laney> does it actually?
<Laney> (if so, what's the api?)
<dobey> Laney: it only immplements basedir at the moment. plan was to immplement user dirs too, but never got around to it
<Laney> nod
<Laney> the description says it does :)
<Laney> I can't actually find a python library which implements user dir, which is sad
<dobey> doesn't python-xdg?
<Laney> doesn't look like it
<dobey> or you can use GLib from gi
<Laney> ya
<seb128> Laney, what are you working on? (checking if that's in context of https://code.launchpad.net/~om26er/ubuntu-system-settings/fix_tests/+merge/210102)
<Laney> it is
<Laney> I'm not working on it, just saw the email
<seb128> ok, so I should hold on approving it? ;-)
<Laney> I'm going to comment saying they could use a library to get the names
<Laney> bit of a nitpick
<seb128> ok
 * om26er waves
<seb128> seems like an improvement fine for another round
<Laney> the surprise is all spoiled!
<Laney> I often feel like 'another round' means never
<Laney> but yes
<seb128> om26er, https://code.launchpad.net/~om26er/ubuntu-system-settings/fix_tests/+merge/210102 and https://code.launchpad.net/~vrruiz/ubuntu-system-settings/helper-launch-system-settings/+merge/213450 conflict, could one of you or Victor rebase on the other one?
<om26er> seb128, ok, I pinged Victor on that ;)
<andyrock> seb128, maybe it's just a race
<seb128> andyrock, it's 100% reliable here though, works on first user switch, then bug, only with guest session so far
<seb128> like if I go to greeter and back it's fine
<rvr> om26er: I'm here :)
<rvr> seb128: Does it conflict?
<om26er> rvr, i didn't know that was your nick :)
<rvr> om26er: :))
<rvr> om26er: What's your branch?
<om26er> rvr, https://code.launchpad.net/~om26er/ubuntu-system-settings/fix_tests/+merge/210102
<seb128> rvr, om26er: right
<seb128> Text conflict in tests/autopilot/ubuntu_system_settings/tests/__init__.py
<seb128> 1 conflicts encountered.
<seb128> when trying to merge both
<rvr> om26er: My merge proposal is more simple (simplier?), what do you think?
<seb128> rvr, om26er: basically it would be nice if one of you rebase on the other one, I've no strong feeling each way
<rvr> seb128: Neither I do
<rvr> seb128: I have to go now, so either mine lands first or I will rebase mine later or tomorrow morning
<rvr> om26er: ^^
<om26er> rvr, i am working on it now then
<seb128> rvr, om26er: thanks
<rvr> Great
<rvr> om26er: Write me if you need help from me, please
<om26er> seb128, rebased on victor's branch, added that as prerequisite now
<seb128> om26er, thanks
<ChrisTownsend> seb128: Do you happen to know garnacho's timezone?
<ChrisTownsend> seb128: Nevermind
<seb128> ChrisTownsend, hey, read the #gtk+ backlog, thanks for looking at that
<ChrisTownsend> seb128: Yeah.  I'm working on a solution, but it's tricky.
<ChrisTownsend> seb128: I now have unfocused Gtk windows scrolling.
<seb128> ChrisTownsend, changing the grabbing that you discussed with garnacho?
<ChrisTownsend> seb128: Yep
<seb128> ChrisTownsend, he said he had planned gtk changes that would fix it for those usecase (but at the cost of extra callbacks)
<ChrisTownsend> seb128: Trying to find a solution to make the wheel mouse VP switchers happy:)
<seb128> k
<seb128> of course compiz is made of plugins so you don't know if you need the grabbing or not I guess?
<seb128> I wish we had forked compiz and merged the plugins to have less complexity, but it's a bit late for that
<ChrisTownsend> seb128: Yeah, it's kind of tricky.  The button grab gets added to a list, but the list seems global to all windows.  I'm seeing if there is a way to figure out "who" wants the particular grab.
<seb128> k
<seb128> you can try asking garnacho if he still plans the GTK change, that would be an acceptable solution
<seb128> earlier today I was wondering if we should revert the GTK commit
<seb128> but before that we had weird/buggy behaviour as well, like refocussing a window could lead to have it scrolling without any action
<seb128> which is also quite buggy, and making less obvious what is happening
<ChrisTownsend> seb128: Yeah.  Well, he's right, Compiz is wayyyy too aggressive on it's passive grabs.  I'll see what I can do over the next couple of days.
<seb128> ChrisTownsend, thanks
<tjaalton> huh, now I got it again.. kbd layout is us while the indicator claims it's fi
<tjaalton> don't even have us there
<robert_ancell> andyrock, still online? I'm going to have a look at 1292041 and see if can find anything there to fix
<ochosi> robert_ancell: thanks again for that hint with the sigterm-signal for the gtk-greeter, seems like that really fixed the issue!
<robert_ancell> ochosi, awesome!
<ochosi> robert_ancell: and thanks for assigning that weird "my login greeter window is too small" bug to gtk-greeter, i've really never seen that oddity before :>
<robert_ancell> mterry, it's probably not too late just to fix u-g to own com.canonical.UnityGreeter... (re https://code.launchpad.net/~mterry/indicator-sound/grab-greeter-name/+merge/213716)
<mterry> robert_ancell, you think?
<mterry> I can do that
<mterry> Cleaner for sure
<robert_ancell> it's just a g_bus_own_name right?
<mterry> robert_ancell, yeah
<robert_ancell> I can do the release if you do the branch
<mterry> robert_ancell, k, let me futz
<robert_ancell> I'd be more worried about bugs in the indicators doing it the other way
<mterry> robert_ancell, I thought we actually owned this name already this cycle
<robert_ancell> yeah, I thought we'd ended up doing that too
<robert_ancell> we own com.canonical.Unity now
<robert_ancell> for the shutdown dialogs
<om26er> Laney, hey still there ?
<robert_ancell> mterry, ah, that helped me with my problem. I notice we also own the screensaver name. But I've been seeing a race there where sometimes the screensaver does start
<mterry> robert_ancell, try https://code.launchpad.net/~mterry/unity-greeter/own-name/+merge/213720
<mterry> works for me
<robert_ancell> mterry, testing here
<robert_ancell> mterry, should greeter-list be updated?
<mterry> robert_ancell, I don't think it needs to be?  It just registers an object on the bus, under whatever names the executable claims
<robert_ancell> ok
<bregma> robert_ancell, I imagine andyrock isn't up right now but he'd appreciate anything you can do to fix that
<bregma> andyrock, robert_ancell is ready for you to pick his brain
<robert_ancell> mterry, released in 14.04.7
<robert_ancell> bregma, ta
<mterry> robert_ancell, awesome, thanks
<darkxst> bug 1301045
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1301045 in gnome-bluetooth (Ubuntu) "gnome-bluetooth pulls in unity-control-center on Ubuntu GNOME packageset installation" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1301045
<JamesJRH> Hello, which package has support for Epson WF-2520 scanners?
<sarnold> JamesJRH: "sane" is the usual scanner package..
<JamesJRH> Can I use an Epson WF-2520 printer/scanner with just Free software drivers?
<JamesJRH> Yes, but is it sane-backends or what?
<JamesJRH> Or libsane-extras?
<JamesJRH> https://launchpad.net/sane-backends  â How do I see what backends this package has?
<sarnold> JamesJRH: looks like sane's epson2 driver supports scanners based on 'features' rather than vresion numbers: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/sane-backends/master/view/head:/backend/epson2.h
<JamesJRH> http://sane-project.org/lists/sane-backends-external.html#S-EPKOWA  â What about this?
<JamesJRH> Which package does that equate to?
<JamesJRH> Status is âCompleteâ, so that's good.
<sarnold> JamesJRH: ah, some more details here on external backends: http://sane-project.org/sane-supported-devices.html
<JamesJRH> Yeah, that's how I got to the page I linked above.
<JamesJRH> Stable and development don't have it, only external. Not sure what that means entirely.
<JamesJRH> I also don't understand why a supported devices list has entries with unsupported status.
<JamesJRH> âThey also contain the reason why these backends are not yet included.â  â I don't see any reasons.
<JamesJRH> There's comments, but the other lists have them too.
<JamesJRH> Hmm, there's also sane-backends-extras.
<JamesJRH> Aah! This PPA might have what I'm looking for!: https://launchpad.net/~robert-ancell/+archive/sane-backends
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-04-02
<JamesJRH> Oh.
<JamesJRH> I've just realised why that PPA doesn't seem to be showing up. It's latest version is slightly older than the one currently installed, so it doesn't show as an update.
<JamesJRH> So I need to look for another PPA...
<JamesJRH> sarnold: Is this channel generally this quiet?
<sarnold> JamesJRH: you've come near the end of the workday on the west coast US, after eod for east coast us, and europe is sleeping :)
<JamesJRH> sarnold: Well, not all are sleeping.. :-]
<sarnold> hehe :)
<JamesJRH> I'm trying to scan something for tomorrow. I've used the printer a few times before for printing, but this is the first time I've wanted to scan something using this printer.
<sarnold> JamesJRH: if none of the pre-built packages are working for you, you could try the external module: http://download.ebz.epson.net/dsc/search/01/search/searchModule
<JamesJRH> How does it work? Will it work with libsane?
<sarnold> it's linked off of the external backends page, so they've given it some kind of blessing. you'd have to check the notes on that page for why it isn't included..
<JamesJRH> Well âSimple Scanâ, which I assume uses libsane.
<JamesJRH> sarnold: But what do I do with it? Where is the PPA?
<JamesJRH> I got my printer driver from this repository: http://download.ebz.epson.net/dsc/op/stable/debian/
<JamesJRH> That's in my sources.list.
<JamesJRH> Oh! This is what Iscan is!
<JamesJRH> Epson's thing.
<JamesJRH> sarnold: I have it working now, but I really don't like installing stuff outside of repos/PPAs, especially if it's proprietary.
<JamesJRH> sarnold: Anyway, thank you for your help. :-)
<sarnold> JamesJRH: completely agreed :)
<sarnold> JamesJRH: especially once you've seen some of that proprietary code.. *shudder*
<sarnold> JamesJRH: good job getting it working :)
<JamesJRH> :-)
<JamesJRH> sarnold: Really, ideally, I'd like it if any proprietary code I have to run on my system is entirely sandboxed to do only what it's supposed to.
<sarnold> JamesJRH: have you seen apparmor yet?
<JamesJRH> Those packages have appeared to install some GUI software which I didn't want.
<JamesJRH> No.
<sarnold> JamesJRH: on my own systems, everything that talks to the internet is confined with apparmor, and every program which doesn't live in the ubuntu archives gets an apparmor profile
<JamesJRH> Ooooh! o_O
<sarnold> JamesJRH: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppArmor
<JamesJRH> I'll look it up, thanks! :-)
<sarnold> JamesJRH: now the disclaimer, I've been involved with apparmor for 14 years.. not exactly unbiased :) but there you go
<JamesJRH> It's been around that long?
<JamesJRH> I think I've seen it when upgrading actually, but never knew what it was.
<sarnold> JamesJRH: well, back in 2000 it was known as "subdomain", but yes, the same project :) hehe
<JamesJRH> I'm actually planning to completely revamp my system this month, so I'll check it out then.
<sarnold> cool! :)
<JamesJRH> I'm currently still using Natty.
<sarnold> eeeeeeek
<sarnold> yes, you've got higher priorities :)
<JamesJRH> I didn't like any of the later releases, so I got stuck there.
<JamesJRH> I'm instead going to switch to NixOS. For many reasons, but one of them being that I can upgrade things that need upgrading without having to upgrade things I don't want to upgrade.
<sarnold> ah, makes sense, assuming someone at nixos is keeping up on security updates for old software
<JamesJRH> sarnold: I like the interface of Natty. I actually started using Unity before it became default, and before that I used the UNR interface which I think was the predecessor to Unity. But since Oneiric, I really don't like Unity, and unfortunately some of those dislikes are common to GNOME, so I haven't readily switched to that either.
<sarnold> JamesJRH: makes sense, some versions I've liked more than others. on my older desktop I always ran i3, but intended to try dwm "someday". I haven't bothered trying to reconfigure my laptop away from unity, there's a lot of little things to fix that are just more annoying on laptops..
<JamesJRH> I particularly dislike recent Nautilus versions. Nautilus was one of those programs that had reached a kind of software contentment â it was mature software that had everything you need and worked how you'd expect. It pretty much just needed maintaining for bug fixes. Instead they decide to tear it apart and start again.
<JamesJRH> Aparently though there's a fork of the old version â I'll be using that.
<JamesJRH> sarnold: I believe that human interfaces are personal preference, and that users may not want to âupgradeâ them. I think that interfaces should be decoupled from the underlying software, such that one may upgrade everything except from the interface if desired.
<JamesJRH> Of course, they'd still need to be tweaked to add new features to an old interface.
<JamesJRH> The way I imagine this to work is similar to the DBus menu.
<sarnold> JamesJRH: you and a few million windows xp users agree :) hehe
<JamesJRH> sarnold: Rather than building GUIs using GTK or QT or whatever, applications, for the most part, would just âexpose themselvesâ to a DBus system, and potentially numerous interfaces should be easily made this way.
<sarnold> JamesJRH: man, the number of programs that have built their logic straight into the views...
<sarnold> *shudder*
<JamesJRH> D-:
<JamesJRH> /o\
<JamesJRH> sarnold: I'd like to be involved in some brainstorming about how interfaces can be abstracted away from the core code, efficiently and generally. And I'm not just talking about GUIs, CLIs could have the same abstraction.
<JamesJRH> I'm sure someone has some theory on this somewhere though.
<sarnold> JamesJRH: could be; it reminds me of The Humane Interface, though to be honest it's been long enough since I've read it that I'm not sure if it shares any of these ideas or not :) hehe
<JamesJRH> It would also allow users to have more consistency across applications that are abstracted.
<JamesJRH> Okay, I'll have a look.
<JamesJRH> sarnold: Modelessness sounds interesting, and âAn end to stand-alone applicationsâ definitely (think of how we use GNU utils), but many of the other things I disagree with. He seems to advocate a single way for all, so I doubt he covers the topic of abstracting to allow multiple personal interfaces as I'd advocate.
<JamesJRH> Anyway, thank you and good night. :-)
<sarnold> JamesJRH: I can't tell if I would have loved his system or hated it :)
<sarnold> JamesJRH: nn
<JamesJRH> :-D
<robert_ancell> RAOF, is xrandr the correct extension to turn off a monitor?
<RAOF> robert_ancell: Yes.
<robert_ancell> RAOF, what is the actually function to do that? I'm confused
<robert_ancell> is it implied by setting the gamma values to zero?
<RAOF> robert_ancell: You're after RRSetCrctConfig with mode set to None.
<robert_ancell> ok, cheers
<tjaalton> I don't have ~/.cache/upstart/unity-settings-daemon.log, but u-s-d is running and kbd layout is 'us' though the settings have it correctly on 'fi'. guess this is bug 1292412
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1292412 in unity-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "Keyboard layout is always English(!)" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1292412
<ogra_> Laney, bug 1301214 ...
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1301214 in ubuntu-system-settings (Ubuntu) "IMEI test constantly fails on touch devices without telephony support" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1301214
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<ogra_> moin :)
<seb128> ogra_, that should be fixed in https://code.launchpad.net/~om26er/ubuntu-system-settings/fix_tests/+merge/213691 which is almost ready to land
<ogra_> yay
<seb128> 222	+ @skipUnless(
<seb128> 223	+ model() == 'Nexus 4',
<seb128> 224	+ 'Nexus 4 is currently the only telephony device that we support'
<seb128> 225	+ )
<seb128> 226	+ def test_imei_information_is_correct(self):
<ogra_> seb128, ugh
<seb128> yeah, that's probably not the best way, feel free to comment on the mp to say it should check for the capability and handle it
<ogra_> that means no IMEI for any ports (and for Meizu and bq phones)
<seb128> in fact let me do that
<seb128> well, those are only tests
<ogra_> well, i expect us to get a chunk of either of these phones, even for the test lab
<seb128> right, well if we skip the test it doesn't create any problem
<seb128> but ideally we should run it, it's better
<seb128> I commented with a needsfixing on the merge reques
<seb128> t
<ogra_> except the phones wont be green in the tests unless we SRU a change to the list :)
<seb128> how so?
<seb128> that's a skip
<seb128> so tests are going to be green
<ogra_> i doubt we will work with U images on them
<seb128> just with 1 less test running
<seb128> it's virtually like if that test was not there
<seb128> it's not red
<ogra_> indeed, but only dogfooding will find IMEI issues then
<Laney> hello
<ogra_> (imagine the meizu returns only UTF16 data because its a chinese model :) )
<mlankhorst> UCS-2 :p
<seb128> ogra_, not sure why we keep discussing it, as said I put a needsfixing on the merge proposal ;-)
<seb128> Laney, good morning!
<ogra_> yeah, sorry
<Laney> yeah I don't understand the need for that restriction to be honest, it should check that we show 'N/A' with no IMEI and the right one with it
<Laney> should be fixable
<Laney> more generally I don't understand this "file a bug then ping people about it on irc immediately" thing
<Laney> we get bug mail
<seb128> Laney, shrug, can we stop arguing about the restriction, it was an error and is needsfixing :p
<Laney> didn't argue
<seb128> ok, then +1 to what you said ;-)
<seb128> that mp has some
<seb128> 249	+ @skipIf(
<seb128> 250	+ model() == 'Desktop',
<seb128> if you dislike those please comment on the merge request
<seb128> (they are used for the system image tests and getprop call)
<seb128> in fact let me comment, ideally we would just check for the dbus name or the service/command to be there
<Laney> seb128: already commented
<seb128> thanks
<Laney> oh now I get an apparmor denial notification when opening empathy
<seb128> I should install those notifications
<seb128> Laney, btw, reading your comment about handling N/A reminded me that we have a WI to hide the serial/imei lines rather than display N/A, I think you even took the ownership of the item some weeks ago?
 * seb128 checks
<Laney> oh, I forgot then
<Laney> (the tests can just as easily check that though)
<seb128>  [laney] about - imei should be hidden if not available: TODO
<Laney> oh ok, lemme do that
<seb128> on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/client-s-system-settings-panels
<seb128> Laney, that includes "serial" as well btw
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AboutThisDevice#Phone
<seb128> "When being tested/demoed on a PC, the âSerialâ and âIMEIâ items should not be present. "
<seb128> qengho, mlankhorst: hey, is https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/018af4d271c7e39d1bd68026f129f2a13668f7b1 a mesa of chromium issue?
<seb128> "brw->hw_ctx != ((void *)0)" assert
<seb128> #4  0x00007fc5bfbc1b25 in brw_get_graphics_reset_status (ctx=<optimized out>) at ../../../../../../../src/mesa/drivers/dri/i965/brw_reset.c:43
<mlankhorst> I have no idea
<mlankhorst> it asserts a hw_context exists, but none does :p
<mlankhorst> would have to ask the intel devs
<seb128> qengho, mlankhorst: the issue started on march 28th it seems, that doesn't match either mesa nor chromium updates
<seb128> hum
<mpt> update-manager just segfaulted, and the error reporting UI didnât appear. What should I do to report the bug?
<seb128> how do you know it segfaulted then?
<Laney> Can you please try updating libffi6 first to see if it's the bug that was fixed on Friday?
<seb128> right
<hikiko> seb128, Laney could you help me with a gtk question?
<hikiko> hello btw :)
<hikiko> how are you?
<seb128> hikiko, hey, good! how are you?
<seb128> sure, just ask
<hikiko> :)
<hikiko> well I was trying to get a widget's size and position (x, y, width, height)
<hikiko> and found that I have to use:
<hikiko> gtk_widget_realize (self->priv->ui_scale);
<hikiko>     gtk_widget_get_allocation (self->priv->ui_scale, ui_scale_allocation);
<hikiko> but I always get a null allocation struct
<hikiko> is there any other way to do it? or should I do something else first?
<seb128> hikiko, could you pastebin your code?
<attente> hikiko: what if you pass the address of a stack-allocated GtkAllocation?
<seb128> but what attente said
<seb128> usually you would have a &ui_scale_allocation there
<seb128> GtkAllocation ui_scale_allocation;
<seb128> gtk_widget_get_allocation (self->priv->ui_scale, &ui_scale_allocation);
<hikiko> let me try
<hikiko> oh noooes
<hikiko> lol
<hikiko> people ignore :D
<hikiko> I didnt see I dont have a & there
<seb128> ;-)
 * hikiko feels ashamed :p
<hikiko> thanks attente seb128 :) +sorry!
<seb128> it happens to everyone don't worry ;-)
<seb128> yw!
<CrazyLemon> Hey guys.. there are some untranslatable strings in 14.04. To be specific in System settings -> Appearance -> Behavior "Show the menus for a window".. who should i bug about that and other similiar issues ?
<seb128> CrazyLemon, it's translatable
<CrazyLemon> seb128 is it? i cant find it anywhere on LP
<seb128> CrazyLemon, what locale do you use?
<CrazyLemon> seb128 sl_SI
<seb128> CrazyLemon, https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/trusty/+source/unity-control-center/+pots/unity-control-center/sl/27/+translate
<qengho> seb128: I don't know if it's mesa or chromium. At least it's specific to trusty, and all ubuntu releases have the same chromium version.
<CrazyLemon> oh.. ok.. nevermind me then :D
<CrazyLemon> tnx seb128
<seb128> CrazyLemon, yw
<seb128> qengho, it's happening on my trusty machine since this week, let me know if maybe I can help providing info
<qengho> seb128: I will. Care to see if later versions have same trouble?  https://launchpad.net/~cmiller/+archive/chromium-browser-beta-daily
<qengho> seb128: I think that will copy your config directory on each run, so you can test without advancing your config beyond usability by stable when you switch back.
<seb128> k
<seb128> I don't think I've much "config" anyway
<seb128> qengho, same errors
<qengho> seb128: thank you.
<seb128> yw
<seb128>  /../../../../src/mesa/drivers/dri/i965/brw_reset.c:43: brw_get_graphics_reset_status: Assertion `brw->hw_ctx != ((void *)0)' failed.
<seb128> chromium still runs fine btw
<seb128> but there are a bunch of those and it triggers apport
<seb128> [6:16:0402/124348:ERROR:command_buffer_proxy_impl.cc(160)] Could not send GpuCommandBufferMsg_Initialize.
<seb128> is also printerd
<seb128> in case that's useful info
<qengho> seb128: is there anything interesting in dmesg around that time?
<seb128> qengho, no, nothing
<Laney> Trevinho: is the force quit dialog ready?
<Trevinho> Laney: yes
<Trevinho> Laney: I was just hard-testing it
<Laney> rocking
<Trevinho> but it's ready to go
<Laney> I just had firefox hang :(
<Trevinho> Laney: you will get rid of it soon :)
<Laney> (why is it so bad at handling large text files?)
<seb128> Trevinho, andyrock, bregma: not sure if you saw but robert_ancell started looking at the screen not turning off lockscreen issues, see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-screensaver/+bug/1292041
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1292041 in gnome-screensaver (Ubuntu) "Lockscreen doesn't turn off the screen" [Medium,Confirmed]
<Trevinho> seb128: yes, I did
<Trevinho> seb128: but I had no time in the past days to check the lockscreen, but I could work on it this afternoon
<seb128> Trevinho, well, andyrock is working on it no?
<seb128> Trevinho, your call, I'm sure you guys have enough bugs for everyone to find stuff to work on ;-)
<Trevinho> seb128: yeah, he should do... but if he needs some help...
<Laney> force quit> ok, would be good if you could get it approved today :-)
<seb128> right
<Trevinho> Laney: yes, I hope so... I guess we'll do a landing
<Laney> ideally
<Trevinho> seb128: and...  I don't want it to be reverted at all... since it's a killer feature :P
<seb128> hehe, right
<Trevinho> (for the pwoer... :D)
<seb128> Laney, Trevinho: there is an unity landing in the CI train on silo 008
<seb128> but that doesn't seem to include the quit dialog change :/
<Trevinho> seb128: yeah, as it's ready just now
 * seb128 updates to the ppa to test that version
<Laney> no, that's not approved yet
<Laney> so we should cler this one out first
<Trevinho> if we want the quit dialog in, then we can wait to land I guess
<Trevinho> bregma: ^
<seb128> right, I'm going to update/test it
<seb128> Trevinho, no, just land what is ready and put another one with the next round of things that are ready
<Trevinho> seb128: ok
<andyrock> seb128, actually we can try to implement g-s dbus interface in unity
<andyrock> it's just few functions
<andyrock> at this point is faster
<bregma> andyrock, what are the risks?
<bregma> and when can it be ready to test?
<andyrock> bregma, risks? we just need to implement the "fading to black"
<andyrock> and provide one signal and 2-3 dbus methods
<andyrock> it's not that easy because we need to respect the same options of g-s
<bregma> so the risk is they won't be supported exactly the same and there will be corner cases that don't work: as long as that does not include "does not wake up" or "can not unlock"
<xnox> seb128: gir scanner started to behave funny http://paste.ubuntu.com/7194320/
<seb128> xnox, why do you tell that to me? I've nothing to do with that component
<seb128> xnox, try asking pitti, he maintains the g-i stack
<xnox> seb128: ah, ok. Although, maybe it's me. Let me clear builder's $HOME and try again.
<xnox> seb128: i always think that you know _everything_ about any glib/gtk/gdk/cairo/etc stacks =)))))
<seb128> haha, I know some things, but not a lot about g-i
<seb128> there is lot of magic there :p
<xnox> seb128: but, you are the expert =) http://www.cnet.com/uk/news/this-is-how-an-engineer-feels-when-hes-surrounded-by-idiots/
<seb128> ;-)
<xnox> wait, direct link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
<kenvandine> xnox, that video would be so much funnier if it wasn't sooooo true
<kenvandine> :-D
<kenvandine> i've been that expert more than once
<xnox> kenvandine: they asked for 7 red lines, all perpendicular, 3 in green ink, the rest invisible... In 3D one can have 3 lines perpendicular to each other (e.g. x-y-z coordinates) using green ink. The rest are invisibles kittens :) jobs done, what's left is to convince the client that's what they have asked for...
<xnox> kenvandine: i was extremely happy to move away from customer-facing "consultant - engineer" into R&D role.
<kenvandine> hehe... but a kitten isn't a line :)
<kenvandine> me too
<xnox> kenvandine: doing quotes, negotiations, scoping exercises, implementations was a nightmare.
<kenvandine> throwing the kitten in was really what made me start laughing, that was awesome
<om26er_> Laney, seb128 I have fixed all concerns in the MR, for when you have time
<om26er_> Laney, did you wrote the system upgrade UI  ? I have a question
<om26er_> *write
<Laney> om26er_: no, gatox did that one
<om26er_> gatox, Hi
<gatox> om26er_, hi
<om26er_> gatox, I am working on automated upgrade testing, so wanted to find out if the image was being downloaded, but it seems system-settings is not revealing any property that shows the progress of download
<om26er_> gatox, can you point me at the code which has that progress so that I could add a property in qml that I can use through autopilot ?
<om26er_> I care about download progress so that my tests know if its still downloading or is stuck due to some reason
<gatox> om26er_, here is the progressbar component and you can see how it connects the value property: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~system-settings-touch/ubuntu-system-settings/trunk/view/head:/plugins/system-update/PageComponent.qml#L378 take into account this is part of a delegate inside a list that will create as many items of that as downloads it has
<om26er_> gatox, cool, does modelData.downloadProgress return integers ? (from 1 to 100 ) ?
<om26er_> or should I actually rely on 'value' ?
<Laney> Isn't checking that the value is equal to the value a bit redundant?
<Laney> Assuming that's what you're going to do
<gatox> om26er_, yes, 1 to 100..... but modelData.downloadProgress is only useful if you want to track only the system updates, not click updates
<om26er_> gatox, yes, system updates is that I care in this case.
<om26er_> gatox, also is logging into ubuntu one a hard requirement now to get system image update ?
<gatox> om26er_, no, that is for click updates
<om26er_> gatox, guess I found a bug then, If I flash clean (--bootstrap) it always says about missing credentials, no way to go forward unless I add my UOne login
<gatox> om26er_, it should notify about missing credentials, but show system updates anyway if there is any
<om26er_> gatox, aah so it keeps checking in the background ? and if it finds one starts showing progress ?
<xnox> seb128: who are the deja-dup megaminds? I see test-suite failures and not sure how to resolve them. Yet i need to build/upload deja-dup, to drop u1.
<gatox> om26er_, no showing progress..... it should show an item and you should click "download" as always
<om26er_> gatox, btw it seems the latest update to system-settings broke the 'UPDATE' property http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~system-settings-touch/ubuntu-system-settings/trunk/view/head:/plugins/system-update/PageComponent.qml#L103 as it never changes to UPDATE even when it is available. it was working with previous version
<kenvandine> xnox, that's mterry
<mterry> xnox, hello
<mterry> xnox, can I see what the test suite failures are?
<xnox> mterry: current deja-dup fails for me with: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7194450/
<xnox> mterry: let me do a fuller pastebin.
<xnox> mterry: maybe it wants a clean $HOME?
<om26er_> gatox, ok, i am flashing to latest image - 1 to check if its working like that.
<mterry> xnox, they should be making their own fake /tmp home
<om26er_> so i would assume if we are fully upto date we don't have a way to confirm that from the UI anymore unless we login to UOne ?
<seb128> xnox, mterry is
<xnox> mterry: actually exporting a fake HOME ahead of time makes it pass. I'll fudge it into the debian/rules test target for now =)
<Laney> yeah make a debian/tmp-home, I've done that a few times
<mterry> xnox, so you're just dropping the U1 feature?  What is the experience for people upgrading?
<xnox> mterry: they need to select new target for backups, and they can't restore u1 backups.
<xnox> mterry: there are gazzion of other options, e.g. they can pick to backup to e.g. ~/DropBox
<mterry> xnox, is there a dialog about that or do automatic backups just stop happening?
<hikiko> seb128, Trevinho gtk question :/
<xnox> mterry: don't know, did not test. It is functional with u1 dropped. But i'm not currently using deja-dup. I can run a full test of backup to u1 -> upgrade to u1-less deja-dup -> file bugs =)
<hikiko> from the gtk_window_move documentation:
<hikiko> Asks the window manager to move window to the given position. Window managers are free to ignore this; most window managers ignore requests for initial window positions (instead using a user-defined placement algorithm) and honor requests after the window has already been shown.
<hikiko> is it possible that compiz just ignores the move request?
<mterry> xnox, I'm just nervous of people upgrading and thinking everything is fine when it's not
<Trevinho> hikiko: it generally works
<Trevinho> hikiko: I'm using it on the force-quit dialog and it works
<Trevinho> hikiko: unless your dialogue has not a fixed size, but it generally works
<hikiko> I am not using a dialogue
<hikiko> I am trying to move
<hikiko> the u-c-c window
<hikiko> where is the force quit dialogue?
<hikiko> I might need to do something first
<hikiko> eg realize?
<hikiko> no
<Trevinho> hikiko: you can movea  window only after that it has been presented to screen
<hikiko> !
<hikiko> so I render first
<Trevinho> hikiko: https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/unity/forcequit-dialog/+merge/213832
<hikiko> and then I move it
<hikiko> mm and another question
<hikiko> I can't find a way to get the root window, I calculate the target positions based on the screen size and the ucc win atm
<hikiko> but if I had the root window it would be much easier
<hikiko> (because relative positions to the root == absolute coordinates)
<Trevinho> ah so you want the abs coords
<Trevinho> hikiko: use https://developer.gnome.org/gdk3/stable/gdk3-Windows.html#gdk-window-get-origin
<hikiko> yes, I calculate them with gtk_translate_coordinates atm
<hikiko> let me see
<Trevinho> you can use that, on the gdk window of the gtk window
<hikiko> cool! :D I think that's exactly what I was looking for!
<hikiko> thank you
<hikiko> :)
<xnox> mterry: rm: cannot remove â/home/xnox/canonical/build-area/deja-dup-30.0/debian/tmp-home/.gvfsâ: Device or resource busy
<xnox> not sure how to "unmount gvfs"
<mterry> huh
<mterry> xnox, that's from a make check?
<xnox> fusermount -u =)
<xnox> mterry: yeah, from ctest stuff - which seems what dh_auto_test calls.
<mterry> xnox, ok will try to reproduce
<om26er> gatox, hey! I flashed it to a newer image. Now when I open updates page it just says ' Credentials not found' and then 'please log into Ubuntu One account...' and then 'auto download' list items
<om26er> want me to log a bug for that ? if we are sure that's a bug
<gatox> om26er, weird
<rvr> seb128: Do you know why helper-launch-system-settings/+merge/213450 hasn't been merged in trunk? You approved it
<xnox> mterry: i think it's passing in sbuild, with fake home, and me unmounting all gvfs ahead of build, and cleaning up the created gvfs post-built. So i think i'm ok. (as in this is not high priority)
<xnox> mterry: i'll send merge proposal of my patches, and packaging i'll just commit it.
<mterry> xnox, sounds like a lot of workarounds  :-/
<gatox> om26er, yes... but i don't know when i would have time to look at it... is there anyone else working on system settings?? I'm working on something else right now
<om26er> gatox, that's probably a question for seb128 or Laney  ?
<seb128> om26er, gatox: settings are mostly a best effort project, no dedicated team
<seb128> rvr, because landing go through CI train, the merge back to trunk only happens once the package is in the Ubuntu release serie
<rvr> seb128: Oh, right
<om26er> seb128, that sounds "great" ;)
<Trevinho> seb128: can you still reproduce https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/1283775?
<Trevinho> because I can't
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1283775 in unity (Ubuntu) "Launcher: icon pips are not always updated properly" [High,Confirmed]
<Laney> om26er: weird, I don't see that and I'm not logged in either
<om26er> Laney, image # ?
<Laney> dunno, I heard the latest doesn't start
<om26er> Laney, you do see 'credentials not found; ?
<Laney> shall I update?
<Laney> no
<seb128> Trevinho, yes, with today's landing
<om26er> I had always thought that was April Fools joke
<seb128> Trevinho, click on nautilus in the launcher, then right click on nautilus in the launchpad and pick "open new win"
<Laney> anyway, really best if gatox can find some time to work on polishing his landing
<Laney> neither of us know that code well enough ...
<Trevinho> seb128: I get two pips..
<Laney> ok, updating then
<seb128> Trevinho, try again :p
<seb128> Trevinho, it happens every 3 try or so for me
<Trevinho> ok, got it
<om26er> gatox, question, is there a way to put UbuntuOne credentials somewhere before running our tests so that we don't need to add tests
<om26er> ...so that we don't need to add a new account each time we run the tests
<gatox> om26er, yes.... as the current test does (but it adds fake creds, those won't be useful to download real clicks from the server)
<Laney> om26er: oh yeah, now I see that
<Laney> boo
<Trevinho> seb128: got once, then not anymore... :(
<Laney> I guess this is the first time I'm running with the click updates
<seb128> Trevinho, it's happening quite often here
<Laney> We should have had a design for this authentication before doing the work
<seb128> the auth is for clicks
<seb128> it's not needed for system images
<Laney> I know
<om26er> gatox, is that test code in ubutnu-system-settings i.e. the one with fake credentials. I am sure that way we can fool the app to not stop us from downloading system updates
<Trevinho> seb128: can you give me the output of gdbus monitor --session --dest org.ayatana.bamf --object-path /org/ayatana/bamf/application/1855564622 ?
<Trevinho> that's the nautilus object path fyi
<Laney> Does it still let you download the system updates without authenticating?
<Trevinho> seb128: just run it before and keep it running when opening/closing please
<gatox> om26er, che the line: os.environ["IGNORE_CREDENTIALS"] = "True" in test_system_updates.py
<gatox> om26er, that one is to get ignore credentials
<om26er> gatox, thanks I'll look into that
<seb128> Trevinho, ok
<seb128> Laney, yes
<Trevinho> seb128: thanks
<seb128> Trevinho, what's the easiest way to get the object path for nautilus?
<Laney> ok, then I guess just the presentation needs work
<Trevinho> seb128: that one should be universal (as it's the hash of its path=
<seb128> Trevinho, btw it's not specific to nautilus, gedit does the same
<Trevinho> but...
<Trevinho> seb128: but... run nautilus and do
<Trevinho> gdbus monitor --session --dest org.ayatana.bamf --object-path "$(gdbus call --session --dest org.ayatana.bamf --object-path /org/ayatana/bamf/matcher --method org.ayatana.bamf.matcher.ApplicationForXid $(wnckprop --list |grep -i Home|cut -f1 -d:) | cut -f2 -d"'")"
<seb128> Trevinho, you are right, it's the same
<seb128> Trevinho, http://paste.ubuntu.com/7194636/
<seb128> Trevinho, l10 is where it stops when opening the second windows
<seb128> Trevinho, l11&12 are added when I focussed back my command line, and the pips got updated when that happened
<Trevinho> seb128: so, bamf-side all seems right...
<Trevinho> at least, daemon side
<seb128> rvr, om26er: ok, changes merged in trunk
<rvr> seb128: Manually?
<om26er> seb128, wow! great :)
<seb128> rvr, no, through normal CI train landing (it was ongoing when you guys pinged earlier)
<seb128> om26er, you need to rebase your branch btw
<om26er> seb128, on trunk ?
<seb128> yes, Laney did a bug fix on the about panel, hiding imei/serial rather than displaying n/a
<seb128> which landed with that round
<om26er> seb128, so skip on desktop sounds fine ?
<seb128> no
<seb128> desktop is a false thing
<seb128> ogra has the issue with phones without a sim and imei
<seb128> you can't special case form factor or devices
<ogra_> well, every tablet has
<seb128> it's really whether the feature is there or not
<seb128> ogra_, yeah, I'm just saying, we can't filter on "desktop"
<Laney> Check the IMEI and if it's not there check the entry is hidden
<Laney> and vice versa, same for serial
<ogra_> right, and even "desktop" might have 3G modems nowadays ...
<seb128> time for exercice, be back in 1 hour
<om26er> seb128, Done. merged with trunk and resolved new conflicts.
<seb128> om26er, thanks
<Laney> cyphermox: any opinion on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/usb-modeswitch/+bug/1280546 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/usb-modeswitch-data/+bug/1280548 ?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1280546 in usb-modeswitch (Ubuntu) "[FFe] sync current version of usb-modeswitch 2.1.0+repack0-1 from Debian testing (Trusty has 2 years old version)" [Wishlist,Triaged]
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1280548 in usb-modeswitch-data (Ubuntu) "[FFe] sync latest version of usb-modeswitch-data 20140327-1 from Debian unstable" [Wishlist,Triaged]
<cyphermox> Laney: yeah, I think it shouldn't be synced; it was ported to C for a reason
<cyphermox> Laney: not sure whether it's still relevant and if we should just ignore this and sync it
<cyphermox> as I recall it was ported so as to not have the impact of loading a tcl interpreter at boot time to switch devices which  may or may not be connected, but it only happens if there is a modem device connected, so maybe it's not worth the trouble
<cyphermox> upstream never seemed to be very fond of having a C port of the app
<mterry> xnox, https://code.launchpad.net/~mterry/deja-dup/drop-u1/+merge/213904 is my changes on top of yours
<mterry> robru, got time for a Deja Dup review for old times sake?  :)  ^
<mterry> (not urgent)
<robru> mterry, haha sure
<robru> mterry, lets get that in a silo, eh?
<robru> mterry, or maybe it should go along with some of the other u1-removal branches I saw for other projects
<mterry> robru, Uh...  I never really considered it so tightly coupled to Ubuntu
<robru> mterry, oh, I just have silos on the brain ;-)
<mterry> robru, well.  This is upstream changes, not to distro.  I think xnox already uploaded something for deja-dup to trusty, but I actually want to see my further changes hit distro too
<robru> mterry, ok
<mterry> robru, (my further changes being the ones that throw up an error, telling users something is wrong)
<robru> mterry, so how do you normally do it? "upstream release" + manual distro upload? I just suggested citrain because (for me) it's the easiest possible way to get something in distro quickly.
<mterry> robru, that is how I do it yeha
<robru> YEEEHAW! ;-)
<mterry> :)
<mterry> robru, I agree that citrain is sexy sauce nowadays.  But I have other distros that consume deja-dup
<robru> mterry, true. alright, i'll leave it with you then
<robert_ancell> bregma, do you want to land  lp:~robert-ancell/lightdm/usc-hardware-cursor before the mir changes land? It will break the existing u8 session I think (since u-s-c/mir exits if given an unknown command line flag still?)
<bregma> robert_ancell, could they both go in the same silo and land together?
<robert_ancell> bregma, we're not using silos for lightdm at the moment
<robert_ancell> bregma, my default position is to land once the mir changes land
<bregma> mmmm
<bregma> then yes, that is the preferred route to take
<robert_ancell> ok, I'll do that
<robert_ancell> bregma, actually running u-s-c from the command line suggests it does ignore unknown args - can you test that? (new lightdm, current u-s-c)
<bregma> robert_ancell, sure, give me a few minutes
<bregma> robert_ancell, u-s-c runs despite the unknown arg, seems everything is copacetic
<robert_ancell> bregma, awesome, I'll land that now then
<bregma> of course, now I have no cursor, dang it
<robert_ancell> bregma, use your third eye :)
<bregma> ah, visualization: I must keep the cursor centered and follow the middle way
<cyphermox> xnox: hey
<cyphermox> xnox: so I think it's probably fine to drop bluez-gstreamer from the desktop seed if nothing on the image requires gstreamer0.10
<cyphermox> it certainly doesn't seem to break anything to remove it
<xnox> cyphermox: yeah \o/
<xnox> cyphermox: i think i've removed all other 0.10 users of the desktop image today, but will check.
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-04-03
<robert_ancell> desrt, what is the correct way to register two gdbus objects on different bus names?
<robert_ancell> desrt, the bus name seems to be implied
<darkxst> seb128, !!!!
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> darkxst, hey
<darkxst> seb128, bug 1301712, fixed now, but really we don;t want the u-c-c/uoa stack!!
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1301712 in shotwell (Ubuntu) "shotwell is pulling in unity-control-center and UOA on Ubuntu GNOME" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1301712
<seb128> you realize that without uoa shotwell has non working features, right?
<seb128> I just commented on that
<seb128> your call if you like to ship buggy softwares I guess
<darkxst> seb128, we don't ship uoa by default
<seb128> I added the recommends because without uoa if you do publish, add an account, you get a nice fail
<seb128> right
<seb128> so you ship a buggy shotwell
<darkxst> seb128, wouldnt the right thing be to disable those features if uoa is not installed?
<seb128> that's one other option, patches are welcome
<seb128> but in the current state things are just buggy
<seb128> well, we ship uoa by default so it's not so much an issue for us
<darkxst> seb128, I would much prefer you discuss these things with me first!
<seb128> I added the recommends because we received some bugs about publishing not working
<seb128> I didn't even think a recommends would be an issue for you
<seb128> sorry about that
<darkxst> all recommends are seeded
<seb128> yeah, I just didn't think that some flavors were using shotwell but not installing what it needs
<Laney> morning
<seb128> Laney, hey
<Laney> hey, wie gehts?
<seb128> good!
<seb128> you?
<Laney> not bad thanks!
<darkxst> seb128, do you have bugs pointing to the actual issue/
<darkxst> ?
<seb128> darkxst, open a photo, do file->publish, pick "add more accounts" from the combo box
<seb128> notice how the warnings about g_spawn_command failing
<darkxst> seb128, and publish menu is provided by the uoa patch I presume?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> or rather modified
<seb128> upstream have their own accounts handling (not using goa or uoa)
<darkxst> yes I noticed there was no goa integration
<darkxst> seb128, ok, I will get that sorted
<darkxst> seb128, Laney any chance of getting tracker into main next cycle?
<GunnarHj> Morning seb128!
<darkxst> we really need nautilus built with tracker support
<darkxst> nautilus is the 'search provider' for file searches
<darkxst> all that is completely broke right now
<GunnarHj> seb128:
<GunnarHj> http://blog.canonical.com/2014/04/02/shutting-down-ubuntu-one-file-services/
<GunnarHj> I missed the UIFe request.
<Laney> ISTR we had problems with io load and indexing before
<darkxst> has it ever been in main before?
<darkxst> I though the MIR got rejected due to UBuntu using zeigeist, but that was before we became official flavour
<seb128> GunnarHj, hey
<seb128> GunnarHj, I'm unsure there was an UIFe request
<seb128> darkxst, tracker, I doubt it
<seb128> well, maybe, you can file a MIR etc for it I guess
<seb128> but I'm unsure we want to build e.g nautilus with it
<seb128> you need the indexer right?
<darkxst> yeh
<darkxst> the other idea would be to add search hooks for extensions, but havent checked with upstream yet if they would take that
<darkxst> but its certainly not possible with current nautilus extension api
<GunnarHj> seb128: Me too. ;-) Does it mean that the Ubuntu One client will be removed before final release? Should we remove the references to Ubuntu One from the docs (resulting in a few untranslated strings)?
<Laney> It's gone, certainly remove it
<seb128> GunnarHj, yes, the package/support for it has started been dropped yesterday
<Laney> The release team were informed in advance but I guess nobody told the docs guys
<Laney> sorry :/
<seb128> xnox, "Drop account-plugin-aim and account-plugin-yahoo from recommends to suggests, thus removing 21.8MB of gstreamer0.10 from ubuntu desktop  CDs."
<seb128> that statement seems weird to me
<darkxst> I never heard nothing either! until xnox removed things from our seeds
<GunnarHj> Laney, seb128: I think that a hint on ubuntu-devel-announce would have been appropriate.
<seb128> GunnarHj, yeah, me too, I didn't even see the announcement!
<seb128> xnox, did you drop bluez-gstreamer as well? that use gst0.10
<seb128> xnox, also telepathy-haze pulls gstreamer0.10 in through libpurple
<Laney> cyphermox: maybe you could comment with your recommendation
<Laney> empathy> "Both services have declining userbase" I wouldn't have said that ...
<Laney> Bit weird to make this decision unilaterally but hey
<seb128> I might revert it
<seb128> but after talking to xnox
<seb128> I doubt he's going to achieve what he wanted
<seb128> we need to keep haze on the CD and that keeps gst0.10
<seb128> bluez-gstreamer as well (though I'm unsure what that does and what would we miss without it)
<Laney> cyphermox said that one is ok
<Laney> I think it lets you use a2dp
<seb128> did he add details on what it doeS?
<seb128> what is a2dp?
<Laney> i.e. send audio over bluetooth
 * seb128 clueless about bluetooth
<seb128> shrug
<seb128> that seems like an useful feature to me!
<Laney> I think it's in mainline gstreamer with 1.0
<Laney> so don't know how useful it is with 0.10
<seb128> oh, nice
<seb128> well, as said I would like to understand how those things are used
<seb128> before we decide to drop stuff  a week before release
<Laney> laney@iota> gst-inspect-1.0 | grep a2dp                                                                                                    ~
<Laney> bluez:  a2dpsink: Bluetooth A2DP sink
<seb128> to then notice after release that after all those stuff were needed and that we regressed usecases
<seb128> $ gst-inspect-0.10 /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/gstreamer-0.10/libgstbluetooth.so
<seb128> ...
<seb128>   rtpsbcpay: RTP packet payloader
<seb128>   a2dpsink: Bluetooth A2DP sink
<seb128>   avdtpsink: Bluetooth AVDTP sink
<seb128>   sbcparse: Bluetooth SBC parser
<seb128>   sbcdec: Bluetooth SBC decoder
<seb128>   sbcenc: Bluetooth SBC encoder
<seb128>  
<seb128> no "SBC decoder" in my gst-inspect-1.0
<Laney> yeah that's in bad for 1.0 afaics
<seb128> k, I don't have that installed
<darkxst> I could never get a2dp working anyway, probably not a huge loss!
<darkxst> ^maybe iphone related though, the iphone stack is an outdated mess right now
<Laney> never tried it
<Laney> not that I have an iphone, but I guess it should work with android too
<darkxst> yeh, although a2dp is a standard! works fine in any modern car (maybe there are patent issues though?)
<darkxst> so probably what I hit was just a bug
<seb128> I don't even know how to test that
<seb128> is that just "pair your phone as a bt device, play music through it as an output"?
<darkxst> seb128, yes, so you pair phone with computer, and then the music play get routed through pulseaudio
<darkxst> ^ the music you play on phone
<Laney> computer doesn't even see my phone to pair with it
<seb128> great, u-c-c segfaulted when I tried to enable the audio for media option on the phone
<seb128> in libgnome-bluetooth
<Laney> this is severely buggy :(
<Laney> the enabled state isn't remembered or synced with the indicator
<seb128> you likely have a bluez/kernel issue
<Laney> never sees the phone, get operation in progress on stderr when doing things
<darkxst> Laney, right, I just gave up on the idea :) and plugged some speakers into my phone!
<sasa84> hello
<sasa84> part of apport is not translated https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17510489/Apport.png
<sasa84> actually there are no strings for translation either https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/trusty/+source/apport/+pots/apport/sl/+translate
<seb128> sasa84, hey, that's "normal", hooks are not translatable atm I think
<xnox> seb128: why would you want telepathy-haze on the images?
<seb128> xnox, because things like gadugadu (the most popular im in China) have no other support for it that through libpurple
<xnox> seb128: poland, qq is in china =)
<seb128> oh, sorry
<seb128> but the argument still stands
<seb128> some protocols are popular in countries and have no telepathy connectors
<xnox> seb128: and those support/use audio/video via libpurple?
<seb128> so they need to use libpurple through haze
<seb128> not sure
<seb128> they do use libpurple from texting/messages
<xnox> seb128: why do i not see telepathy-haze in the seed sources?
<seb128> but libpurple is one lib
<seb128> the a/v part is not split out
<seb128> xnox, because it's a recommends of empathy
<seb128> we could seed all recommends of all softwares
<seb128> not sure what's the point though
<xnox> nah, no point. For ubuntu, we do choose to seed in recommends.
<seb128> well, it's already a recommends from empathy
<seb128> not sure why you want to duplicate that info?
<xnox> no, i don't. Just wanted to know how it was seeded in, to make sure it's not just a dep.
<xnox> so another way is to hunt down upstream patches which port purple to gstreamer0.10, and then the empathy change to downgrade two accounts can be reverted as well.
<xnox> cause at this point libpurple is the last one holding up gstreamer0.10 on desktop images.
<Laney> They did it on a different branch, for the 3.0 series.
<xnox> is last correct statement?
<seb128> I think it is
<seb128> but pigdin is moving slowly
<xnox> Laney: right, i'll look to see if it's self-contained to be cherry-picked.
<seb128> they are still gtk2 and gst1.0
<seb128> gst0.10 sorry
<seb128> they are porting to gtk2/gst1.0 but when I looked at it there was no easy change we could backport to migrate to gst1.0
<sasa84> ok, tnx seb128
<seb128> xnox, thanks
<Laney> I don't think it's going to be as easy as you think it might be
<Laney> otherwise we would have done it back then
 * darkxst would love to see gstreamer 0.10 be gone from our images ;) (not that I have been following the whole story)
<Laney> Risky this close to release too
<darkxst> hmm I was wasnt really talking about this release!
<seb128> xnox is ;-)
<xnox> seb128: i'm not buying this gadu-gadu & qq argument =) let me check the depends again.
 * darkxst also wonders why I generally have no idea about what is happening until (almost) after the fact
<seb128> xnox, well, also yahoo ... which you decided was not useful anymore, but I don't think we have data on that being true or false
<xnox> seb128: so to get gadugadu support in empathy, i need account-plugin-gadugadu which is universe and that's not of my doing.
<seb128> darkxst, is that comment about the u1 change? or do you have other examples?
<darkxst> probably mostly, I find out after things break! :(
<xnox> seb128: and that depends on telepathy-haze
<seb128> darkxst, well, I could say the same, I woke up this morning to see that you dropped the recommends I added yesterday :p
<xnox> seb128: and i don't see a qq accounts plugin.
<seb128> xnox, empathy doesn't enforce ubuntu-online-account, you can go to empathy-preferences and add accounts
<seb128> sorry, "empathy-accounts"
<darkxst> seb128, you seeded the entire unity-control-center/UOA stack on our images!!!!
<xnox> seb128: oh, the "old UI" ?!
<darkxst> that is bad ;)
<seb128> xnox, the only UI to add accounts that are not supported by uoa
<xnox> seb128: how to open that? F4/empathy->accounts opens online-accounts.
<seb128> darkxst, well, I'm just saying, you did a change during my night and I woke up to it, it's not only to you that those things happen
<seb128> xnox, alt-f2 empathy-accounts
<xnox> seb128: that does offer gadugadu. but... there is no desktop/UI way to get there?
<seb128> xnox, not that I know offhand, which is a known issue, we force users into an incomplete account list :/
<darkxst> seb128, sorry but +59 packages into a seed, is quite the emergency!
<seb128> darkxst, I'm not criticizing the change, just saying that people do work and don't always stop to discuss every change
<darkxst> seb128, sure, guess I am just pushing a bit more cross-flavour considerations, we do (try atleast) to test everything against ubuntu before upload
<xnox> so we ship haze, and hidden ui to use it, but no anything discoverable =(
<darkxst> just that doesnt happen in reverse
<seb128> xnox, correct
<darkxst> although when/if we can get gnome-shell autopkg tests running, I guess that can't happen anymore
<seb128> xnox, I could see an argument to drop it from the default install saying it's not accessible to normal users anyway, but doing such change a week before the freeze makes me nervous
<Laney> Would it break the accounts of people upgrading?
<seb128> darkxst, it's not easy to test every flavor, image if we had to test kubuntu, xubuntu, lubuntu, GNOME Ubuntu, etc before every upload
<seb128> Laney, we wouldn't remove those binaries on upgrade I guess?
<seb128> Laney, or is update-manager agressive about those things?
<seb128> which makes me thing I still need to talk to mvo_ about that
<xnox> Laney: if they had online-accounts-gadugadu installed then no, cause that hard depends on haze and it would stay.
<seb128> to see if we can remove gnome-control-center on precise->trusty updates
<darkxst> seb128, its really only Ubuntu GNOME that has overlap ?
<xnox> Laney: actually no, it will not break on upgrades, cause upon upgrade haze would stay.
<mvo_> seb128: about what exactly? sorry missed parts of the conversation
<darkxst> I supposed edubuntu uses gnome-flashback too
<xnox> Laney: cause we are discussing dropping -haze from depends to recommends in empathy.
<seb128> darkxst, not really, GTK is used in most flavors
<Laney> Oh, I thought you wanted to get it off the image
<Laney> Don't know what the point is then
<seb128> mvo_, we transitioned Unity from gnome-control-center/gnome-settings-daemon to unity-control-center/unity-settings-daemon in trusty, I'm wondering if we can make the dist-upgrader clean g-c-c/g-s-d on upgrade if nothing depends on those
<darkxst> gtk bugs are generally not fatal, just annoying
<seb128> darkxst, well, adding uoa to your seed was not a runtime issue, just annoying :p
<seb128> but yeah, we try to be good citizen
<xnox> Laney: dropping -haze from recommends to suggests on empathy, will effectively unseed haze/purple/gstreamer0.10
<xnox> Laney: we don't install suggests, do we?
<Laney> what
<darkxst> we have had gobject-introspection issues that break gdm...
<Laney> 03/04 10:34:28 <xnox> Laney: cause we are discussing dropping -haze from depends to recommends in empathy.
<Laney>  <xnox> Laney: dropping -haze from recommends to suggests on empathy
<xnox> Laney: TYPO!
<seb128> it's already a recommends
<xnox> Laney: need more coffee =)))))))
<seb128> it's recommends->suggests
<xnox> that ^
<darkxst> seb128, that and a 100 messages why is the unity world being pulled into ubuntu GNOME :(
<seb128> darkxst, yeah, that's unfortunate :/
<seb128> darkxst, anyway mistake happen, sorry about that
<seb128> and +1 on autopkgtests for gnome-shell
<seb128> xnox, I cleaned those u1 sources from trusty
<darkxst> seb128, next cycle, its hard ;(
<mvo_> seb128: yes, that should be possible
<xnox> seb128: \o/
<xnox> seb128: thanks. I think u1 is all done for trusty, but possibly unity (in-silo) and thunderbird.
<darkxst> autopilot and maybe gnome-shell, need to be patched to play with clutter widgets
<seb128> we don't have autopilot integrated with autopkgtest
<seb128> and yeah, autopilot and clutter sounds like "fun"
<darkxst> seb128, pitti mentioned it was possible (apart from the clutter bit)
<seb128> cool
<xnox> seb128: cjwatson did write a proof-of-concept running autopilot tests as autopkgtests =)
<seb128> nice
<darkxst> seb128, I actually have a couple of 'apprentices' now (CS students I guess) that at are good are code, but hopeless at packaging
<darkxst> seb128, I doubt upstream will care much about in bugs in 3.8...
<seb128> darkxst, that's what the new RHEL ships, I somewhat think that's going to help a bit
<darkxst> seb128, getting source from RHEL is a pita
<seb128> some of the fixes are flowing back in upstream git
<darkxst> maybe some but not most!
<seb128> but yeah, GNOME upstream doesn't do much stable serie work
<seb128> it would be true for any serie
<seb128> if we had 3.10 we would soon stop getting fixes for that as well
<xnox> what component do we use for XMPP in telepathy? it's telepathy-native? cause libpurple uses gstreamer for XMPP only audio/video by the looks of things.
<darkxst> seb128, watch this space, I will make sure all patches that affect us are cherry picked to the 3.10 branch; )
<xnox> but recompiling pidgin without gstreamer, would piss off anybody to uses pidgin for audio/video xmpp
<xnox> unless we compile that twice.....
<xnox> sounds risky
<seb128> darkxst, ;-)
<darkxst> except for the stupid gnome-tweak-tool authors who refuse to take python3 pathes
<seb128> xnox, telepathy-gabble
<Laney> I'd really rather avoiding doing any risky gstreamer stuff now
<Laney> if you wanted to try that it should have been a couple of months ago
<seb128> +1
<xnox> seb128: i'm confused, reading the buildlog empathy is compiled with --enable-gst1.0 option and it does link against gstreamer1.0 in the archive.
<xnox> reading wrong project buildlog
<darkxst> seb128, you would probably be amazed at what the the super secret RHEL teams backport, but its not generally available until it filters into CentOS
<Laney> do they do the monolithic patches thing for all packages?
<darkxst> I don't know, I have never been able to find a single patch to see!
<seb128> darkxst, I've to admit I never tried to look much at what they do indeed
<Laney> If not some kind of patch tracker for rhel would be interesting ;-)
<Laney> seb128: Trevinho: want to try getting https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/unity/forcequit-dialog/+merge/213832 in?
<seb128> Laney, it's in silo 5 if you want to test the ppa
<Laney> oh cool
<seb128> https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/landing-005/+packages
<Laney> how can you trigger a hung window?
<seb128> gedit & gdb -p `pidof gedit`
<seb128> N
<seb128> ?
<Laney> oh yes good point
<Laney> I was thinking stuff like that would close the window for some reason
 * Laney is broken
<seb128> Trevinho, Laney, bregma: those changes to the close dialog seem buggy, I get 2 dialogs to show, the old and new ones
 * seb128 restarts session in case alt-f2 -> unity was not a proper restart
<Laney> urgh I broke everything
<seb128> what did you do?
<Laney> I logged out to start a new session with it
<Laney> which took ages waiting for some timeout
<Laney> so I tried to use loginctl session-status to see what it was
<Laney> that was segfaulting
<seb128> urg
<Laney> and then it hung logging out the next time and restarting lightdm hasn't got it back up
<Laney> weeeeeeeeee
<Laney> oh there it is, in a messed up resolution, wtf
 * Laney restarts
<ochosi> Laney: what was in a messed up resolution? just asking cause we recently got a lightdm-gtk-greeter bug assigned from robert that complains about the greeter not being displayed in the correct resolution (could never reproduce that so it's a bit poking in the dark for me..)
<Laney> lightdm
<Laney> after I restarted it
<Laney> it had ignored the settings I think because it was mirrored too
<Laney> seb128: seems fine to me, I only got one dialog
<seb128> Laney, I still get both after a restart :/
<Laney> weird
<ochosi> Laney: so unity-greeter was shown in the wrong resolution?
<Laney> yes
<Laney> hmm it's spotify holding the session open
<seb128> greeter sessions are left open because of indicators here :/
<ochosi> Laney: mind to add whether this should affect unity-greeter too then? https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1300153
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1300153 in lightdm-gtk-greeter (Ubuntu) "login Screen is not showing correctly" [Undecided,New]
<ochosi> seb128: well from what i've seen, they get quite brutally killed in unity-greeter (and gtk-greeter, cause we mostly ported unity-greeter's indicator behavior)
<Laney> ochosi: It's unlikely to be the same problem
<Laney> or at least I can't say if it is
<seb128> ochosi, well, at least indicator bluetooth/sound are managed by upstart
<seb128> so it looks like unity-greeter fails to send the signal that is used to stop the jobs
<seb128> stop on desktop-end or indicator-services-end
<seb128> so I guess the greeter should send indicator-services-end at login and doesn't
<seb128> ok, time for some errands and getting lunch on the way, back in 45 minutes or so
<ochosi> Laney: afaik unity-greeter and lightdm-gtk-greeter use the same logic to get the screen size/resolution
<mlankhorst> afternoon
<mlankhorst> not feeling well, running a fever. :(
<seb128> ochosi, unity-greeter uses unity-settings-daemon xrandr plugin
<seb128> so things might be different
<Laney> jdstrand: can I add /usr/local/share/glib-*/schemas/ to telepathy's profile?
<Laney> I get some denials for that when using empathy
<seb128> Laney, /usr/local?
<seb128> Laney, what did you do!
<Laney> $ empathy
<Laney> dmesg
<seb128> ls /usr/local/share/glib-*/schemas/
<seb128> /usr/local should be empty
<seb128> did you sudo make install thingS?
<Laney> yes I have some schemas there
<Laney> it's a legal thing to do :-)
<seb128> lol
<seb128> well, if you can local install you can tweak your apparmor profiles ;-)
<seb128> or do we usually include /usr/local paths to those?
 * seb128 checks
<Laney> other profiles handle /usr/local
<seb128> k
<bregma> seb128, I have removed the close dialog MP fro the current U7 silo because that needs to land for other reasons, we'll try it again in the next landing
 * bregma takes the dog for a walk
<GunnarHj> seb128: Is remote login affected by the Ubuntu One shutdown, or is it login.ubuntu.com that is part of the remote login feature?
<GunnarHj> https://help.ubuntu.com/14.04/ubuntu-help/sharing-remote-login.html
<GunnarHj> "The shutdown will not affect the Ubuntu One single sign on service, the Ubuntu One payment service, or the backend U1DB database service."
<seb128> bregma, ok
<seb128> GunnarHj, hum, I would have say it should not be affected but I'm unsure
<seb128> dbarth, ^ can you reply to that?
<GunnarHj> seb128, dbarth: I was about to remove that page, but then I started to hesitate...
<seb128> GunnarHj, I think we stopped installing-by-default the remote login package earlier in the cycle, you can probably drop that page
<dbarth> GunnarHj, seb128: confirmed, you can drop it
<seb128> dbarth, k, it would still be useful if you replied to the question though ;-)
<dbarth> seb128: eh, which question exactly?
<dbarth> (just reading the backlog after lunch)
<dbarth> so, the remote login feature is not affected by the change
<seb128> dbarth, is lightdm-remote-session-uccsconfigure relying on u1? said differently, is it still a working package without the filesync service?
<dbarth> not affected by the U1 shutdown to be more precise
<seb128> dbarth, the documentation GunnarHj pointed states "The system is designed so that Ubuntu One securely stores your login information "
<dbarth> the remote login feature is not enabled by default anymore
<seb128> dbarth, ok, good, thanks ;-)
<GunnarHj> seb128, dbarth: Thanks, then I know how to proceed.
<Laney> If you want to document it then change it to tell people how to install the package instead
<seb128> dbarth, right, still if he stopped working we should remove the package for Ubuntu as well
<Laney> :-)
<dbarth> and, now that we dive into this, i think we should also drop the uccsconfigure part
<seb128> he->it
<dbarth> i thought that was the case already
<seb128> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm-remote-session-uccsconfigure
<seb128> that is still in trusty
<dbarth> but really we only want to keep the technical bit around, in case enterprises want to use that
<seb128> if we want to stop supporting it, maybe we should delete it before release
<seb128> k
<dbarth> seb128: think i still have time to request a drop?
<seb128> yes
<dbarth> i will sync up with jason & robert as well
<seb128> k
<GunnarHj> Laney: Well, yes explaining how to install instead of how to remove would of course be an option...
<ochosi> seb128: oh, indeed. i thought it was mainly using gdk to determine screen-size etc
<seb128> ochosi, it could be, the xrandr plugin is handling some of the work, I don't think it does much on start though (the screen config is done by xorg afaik)
<ochosi> yeah, i thought so too
<ochosi> even moving the login-window to different monitors didn
<ochosi> t seem to involve randr
<seb128> no, xrandr basically set the screens config, e.g which one is primary, if it's mirror mode or xinerama, and their resolution
<seb128> so it's "xorg server config" more than "greeter work"
<ochosi> ah, that's what you meant
<jdstrand> Laney: I guess it would be ok, but I have a feeling it wouldn't be enough in the general case. that said I would suggest adjusting /etc/apparmor.d/local/usr.lib.telepathy which is designed for site-specific additions
<Sweetshark> seb128: I talked to Rene, he is not interested in the fix as LO42 is unlikely to end up in their stable. So please review http://people.canonical.com/~bjoern/trusty/accessodf_0.1-1.3ubuntu2_amd64.changes and upload. diff is here: http://people.canonical.com/~bjoern/trusty/accessodf_0.1-1.3ubuntu2.diff
<seb128> Sweetshark, ok, thanks ... amd64.changes, we do source uploads here ;-)
<Sweetshark> seb128: ahh, this open source stuff is a hype that will soon pass. ;)
 * Sweetshark uploads the source changes quickly ...
<Sweetshark> seb128: http://people.canonical.com/~bjoern/trusty/accessodf_0.1-1.3ubuntu2_source.changes
<seb128> Sweetshark, thanks ;-)
 * Sweetshark listens to 'While my guitar gently weeps' in the ukulele version. There might be some irony hidden in there.
<brainwash> indicator-sound installs /usr/share/upstart/xdg/autostart/indicator-sound.desktop which contains the line "hidden=True", this file seems to override the normal one located in /etc/xdg/autostart/
<brainwash> so, xfce4-session shows the indicator sound autostart launcher as unchecked
<seb128> tedg, ^
<brainwash> recent indicator-sound change in trusty
<brainwash> I assume that it prefers the upstart launcher, because we are running an upstart user session
<seb128> Laney, do you have an opinion on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rhythmbox/+bug/1296334 ?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1296334 in rhythmbox (Ubuntu) "Update to bug-fix release 3.0.2 in Trusty" [High,Confirmed]
<seb128> dpm, Laney, tedg: https://code.launchpad.net/~attente/indicator-keyboard/1291962-2/+merge/213346 is changing a "..." to "â¦" which changes the string/invalidates the translations, do you think it's ok to do now or is that too close from release?
<Laney> seb128: looks ok, what do you think?
<seb128> +1, I would prefer have the items right/consistent for the lts, it's an easy translate update, I'm going to drop a note to the translation team
<tedg> Yeah, I think that's best.
<seb128> Laney, or are you speaking about rhythmbox? ;-)
<seb128> which I think is ok as well
<Laney> rb
<seb128> k
<Laney> breaking translations not so sure
<seb128> I'm going to do that update now
<seb128> rb
<dpm> seb128, could we do it after release? I've had experience with exactly this change bringing lots of confusion and frustration because translations break
<Laney> jdstrand: that's the only profile I have installed here which references the schemas
<Laney> I'll upload that, cheers
<seb128> dpm, doing after release, like in a SRU?
<seb128> dpm, or next cycle?
<Laney> yeah I can imagine how it'd be annoying to have to rush to re-translate something like that before release
<dpm> seb128, I'd say next cycle
<Laney> I guess there's no way to say 'copy the old translations for this new string'
<seb128> not in launchpad
<dpm> actually the developer could do that and reupload the package with the new English string and the old translations
<seb128> we were able to do that when translations were in the source
<dpm> LP would still import the translations uploaded in the .mo files
<seb128> right
<Laney> so import them and then hack the po files or something
<dpm> so the developer would have to hack all the .po files
<dpm> and the .pot file
<seb128> that would mean doing a full export, adding those to the source, doing some seeding/intltool-merge, commit that, CI train, clean the source back
<dpm> to replace the original English string
<seb128> I can't be bothered for one string
<Laney> haha
<dpm> yes, it's quite a lot of work
<Laney> yes indeed
<seb128> it's easier for a launchpad admin to click through the locales in the webui and revalidate the translations :p
<brainwash> tedg: any idea why the recent indicator-sound update broke it?
<Laney> You might want to give a bit more detail than that
<brainwash> backlog
<tedg> brainwash, I probably don't have enough backlog :-)
<brainwash> "indicator-sound installs /usr/share/upstart/xdg/autostart/indicator-sound.desktop which contains the line "hidden=True", this file seems to override the normal one located in /etc/xdg/autostart/"
<brainwash> "so, xfce4-session shows the indicator sound autostart launcher as unchecked"
<tedg> Yes, and that should only be in your XDG_DATA_DIRS if you're running an upstart user session, no?
<brainwash> yes, it's an upstart user session
<brainwash> used by default in xubuntu
<tedg> K, so does it start?
<lenny> tedg: no
<brainwash> it only starts if you tell xfce4-session to override "hidden=True"
<Laney> I bet nothing emits the event
<tedg> I'm not sure how the xfce4-session works, but if it's only using desktop files that's not really going to work with Upstart user sessions.
<Laney> what happens if you run initctl emit indicator-services-start
<Laney> ?
<lenny> Laney: Nothing
<Laney> status indicator-sound
 * tedg is upset that Laney is too fast
<lenny> indicator-sound stop/waiting
<Laney> Fishy
<Laney> start indicator-sound
<brainwash> Laney: the command starts all indicators
<lenny> indicator-sound start/running, process 2437 (no audio indicator in tray though)
<Laney> brainwash: it works for you?
<brainwash> Laney: yes, but it did start the whole indicator stack (datetime, sound,..)
<Laney> is that bad?
<brainwash> it's a change
<brainwash> we were used to enable/disable indicators via xdg/autostart
<Laney> oh right, that's going to happen then
<Laney> if you 'echo manual > ~/.config/upstart/indicator-foo.conf' it should override it
<Laney> So you should make some part of your desktop emit this event
<Laney> You could do it from an upstart job (unity7) or code (lightdm-gtk-greeter) or a .desktop file (gnome-panel)
<tedg> Technically unity7 does it from code, it emits the event in unity-panel-service when it's ready for the indicators.
<tedg> But yes, all of those work.
<Laney> oh yeah, just read the summaries on http://162.213.35.4/search?weighted=1&q=indicator-services-start
<brainwash> yes, but I'm not sure if the xubuntu team wants to change the way the indicator start
<brainwash> starts
<Laney> then change the override file to drop XFCE
<Laney> Not sure what the point of having upstart sessions is if you don't want to use them though
<brainwash> upstart user sessions were enabled by default
<seb128> tedg, so, question for you
<Laney> Someone listed it in /etc/upstart-xsessions
<tedg> seb128, Heh, and I bet you're going to want an answer too! ;-)
<seb128> tedg, loginctl lists some lightdm sessions for me, those keep running because of indicator processes
<seb128> tedg, should we have unity-greeter emitting indicator-services-end at login so those get stopped?
<tedg> seb128, It shouldn't have to, sending sigterm to Upstart should do it. Do you have upstart's running as well?
<tedg> Upstarti?
<seb128>           CGroup: systemd:/user/119.user/c10.session
<seb128>                   ââ13876 init --user --startup-event indicator-services-star...
<seb128>                   ââ13961 /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/indicator-bluetooth/indicat...
<seb128>                   ââ13965 /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/indicator-sound/indicator-s...
<brainwash> Laney: ok, I'll try to explain the situation to the xubuntu team. thanks :)
<seb128> tedg, yes
<Laney> brainwash: If you get removed from that file then you can stop using the user sessions
<Laney> Those are all of the options that I know of :-)
<seb128> tedg, doesn't happen for you? (try to start a guest session and log back to your user)
<seb128> oh, urg, settings meeting time!
<tedg> seb128, Hmm, let me see.
<Laney> is that now?
<seb128> tedg, Laney, charles, meeting :p
<seb128> well, according to my google calendar
<Laney> I got tz confused
<Laney> what evs, now is fine
<seb128> we never defined if that was utc constant
<seb128> I'm fine shifting 1 hour if you guys prefer
<Laney> 1 minute, refilling tea
<tedg> I don't care either way.
<seb128> let's do it now/keep that time then
<tedg> But I do have 1 additional Upstart. Which is odd, seems to not be consistent :-/
<xnox> seb128: Laney: cherrypicked/ported pidgin to gstreamer1.0 and that compiles, but fails at runtime. Uploaded into unapproved empathy that drops haze from recommends to suggests, since there is no default/discovarable UI to configure any of the accounts that haze/libpurple provide and upgrades are unaffected.
<tedg> I guess there are two options, Upstart isn't getting the SIGTERM or it's ignoring it.
<tedg> xnox, Is there anyway that Upstart could ignore a SIGTERM?
<Laney> haze: whatever (maybe the docs team want to document this though)
<Laney> aim/yahoo, not sure at all, might want to revert that
<xnox> Laney: aim & yahoo hard depend on telepathy-haze...
<xnox> i should boot an older image to see the net-difference of available options.
 * Laney shrugs
<mvo_> gar, I made the mistake to check the lkml systemd/debug cmdline thread :/
<Laney> if that's the case then we get to keep it
<xnox> Laney: how should i propose the change for discussion? ubuntu-devel post?
<Laney> Can we just think about it after release?
<xnox> Laney: imho we should be providing whatsapp & facebook chat login options as together they outnumber 10x-20x active users of aim&yahoo
<Laney> I get the goal of dropping gstreamer but we've lived with it this far and I'd rather not rush it through now
<xnox> Laney: dropping gstreamer is very technical/internal change, dropping IM networks is user-visible.
<Laney> yes I know
<Laney> you are trying to achieve the former by doing the latter
<Laney> (facebook chat works already btw)
<xnox> Laney: and if the goal is to drop gstreamer out of main, then pidgin pitivi qt-phonon all need porting, none of which will be done for trusty.
<xnox> Laney: yeah, i guess reject proposed empathy and revert the previous upload.
<Mirv> re: pitivi bug #1253009 still open though, pre-requirements were synced seemingly a few days ago
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1253009 in pitivi (Baltix) "[FFe] Please sync latest upstream release (0.9x) from Debian experimental - Pitivi developers recommends to use 0.92 or later" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1253009
 * xnox ponders if new pitivi uses gst1.0 or not =)
<Mirv> yes it does
<xnox> good, one donw.
<Mirv> s/experimental/unstable/ now, fixed
<Laney> xnox: yeah that's what I thought, thanks
<xnox> i'll give cherrypicking gst1.0 for pidgin another try, the patch was not that large and possible propose that if i'll get the darn thing do audio calls =)
<Laney> I remember that previously I had it built but failing at runtime
<xnox> same.
<Laney> I remember using the test voice/video thingy in preferences
<Laney> but even that didn't work
<Laney> back then I didn't know pidgin 3.0 was going to take a lifetime :-)
<seb128> xnox, speaking of pitivi, https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1253009
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1253009 in pitivi (Baltix) "[FFe] Please sync latest upstream release (0.9x) from Debian unstable - Pitivi developers recommends to use 0.92 or later" [Medium,Triaged]
<xnox> i should try out just pidgin 3.0 and see if that at all works first for audio/video =)
<seb128> xnox, is pidgin3 a thing or is that the work in progress for the next/gtk3 version?
<xnox> seb128: the hg tip of their mainline development repository has options to compile with gtk3/gst1.0 merged sometime between 2012 and 2013
<ChrisTownsend> seb128: FYI, I have a fix for the Gtk scrolling issues in Compiz.
<tedg> Laney, Can you pastebin your url-dispatcher* upstart logs to see if there's anything in those?
<seb128> my dir is drw------- from april 2
<Laney> ffs
<Laney> I keep getting logind into a hung state
<seb128> tedg, my logs have ** (process:29048): WARNING **: Unable to open URL database
<seb128> that's url-dispatcher.log
<Laney> makes SSHing to the desktop from this laptop take ages
<Laney> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7198908/
<Laney> tedg: ^
<Laney> Some of those are from the <app>-dispatcher
<tedg> Laney, That's the url-dispatcher.log or from the -refresh and -update jobs as well?
<Laney> tedg: -update ones too, don't have any -refresh
<tedg> Hmm, bother. Was hoping it was them :-)
<Laney> seb128: do you have any files inside the directory?
<seb128> no
<seb128> it's empty
<Laney> ok
<tedg> Throw out an idea, perhaps it got created somehow previously?
<tedg> i.e. it's not being created by the current code
<Laney> That's what I'm guessing
<Laney> Don't know this area well enough to suggest what
<tedg> Thinking about putting a pre-start hook to detect the case and delete the dir.
<tedg> It'd "solve" the problem for most.
<tedg> Perhaps we could pull a recoverable error as well, get more data.
<Laney> I was expecting you'd chmod it in code, but whatever works
<tedg> Hoping it's a temporary fix.
<tedg> Laney, Just to be curious, what's your umask set to? Anything funky?
<seb128> tedg, stop looking for weird configs, that error tops e.u.c today, it's not a weird config one
<seb128> tedg, and my umask is not tweaked
<seb128> $ umask
<seb128> 0002
<tedg> seb128, Hmm, I just don't see anything standard doing that. Thought it was click, but it's calling g_mkdir_with_parents(777)
<seb128> btw I can't reproduce, removing the dir and running the commands from the upstart job leads to correct permissions
<Trevinho> seb128: hi, bregma told me that you had issue witht the force-quit dialog thing
<seb128> Trevinho, hey, yes, I'm getting both the old and new dialogs
<Trevinho> seb128: it looks weird to me btw... are you sure that for some reason your unity decor plugin is still active (and thus gtk-window-decorator)
<Trevinho> seb128: it can't happen on new installs at all
<Trevinho> unless someone don't run gtk-window-decorator
<seb128> I don't know
<seb128> how do I check?
<Trevinho> seb128: check ccsm for active plugins or gsettings on unity profile
<Trevinho> seb128: also ps aux |grep decorator
<seb128> tedg, btw, the the .cache/url-dispatcher timestamp doesn't match any login, so it seems like that directory was not created at login... what else could create it?
<tedg> seb128, That's kinda why I was thinking click. But looking through the click code, it seems pretty clean.
<tedg> Nothing fancy there.
<tedg> I thought perhaps I created the dir, but it seems to work fine on a clean install.
<seb128> Trevinho, /usr/bin/gtk-window-decorator is running
<Trevinho> seb128: yeah, that's why you get it, but it should not run
<Trevinho> there's something that runs it
<Trevinho> seb128: and it's not in default config
<Trevinho> in theory I added migration scripts to prevent that
<Trevinho> but....
<Trevinho> seb128: I would actually drop compiz-gnome package from unity installations,  not know for what is needed
<Trevinho> seb128: I mean, we should provide a compiz-unity instead, without that process, but not sure we can do it now
<Trevinho> seb128: so gsettings get org.compiz.core:/org/compiz/profiles/unity/ active-plugins shows decor for you?
<seb128> Trevinho, I mentioned it several times a month ago that you might want to drop the old decor plugin out of the default binary, to clean the gtk2 depends...
<seb128> but you guys ignored me :p
<Trevinho> seb128: oh, I actually didn't read any of your mentions.... maybe I wasn't directly pinged :)
<seb128> Trevinho, yes it does
<Trevinho> but, I thought we couldn't not to break flashback sessions
<Trevinho> seb128: you also get the decor plugin mentioned on lsof -p $(pidof compiz)| grep decor ?
<seb128> Trevinho, well, you could move the plugin to extra and have those session depends on that
<Trevinho> seb128: is that something we're still in time to do?
<seb128> yes, it's loaded
<seb128> $ lsof -p $(pidof compiz)| grep decor
<seb128> compiz  29394 seb128  mem    REG        8,1    174288  1978581 /usr/lib/compiz/libdecor.so
<Trevinho> seb128: mh, weird as it should be discarded, but still...
<Trevinho> now that's why you get that
<Trevinho> wondering why the migration script didn't work for you
<Trevinho> it's in /usr/share/session-migration/scripts/00_remove_decor_in_unity_session.py
<Trevinho> seb128: if you run it now, (a part from a probabile crash), does it work?
<seb128> Trevinho, I might have re-enabled it manually when didrocks was testing/having his decoration pixmap issues
<Trevinho> seb128: ah, i see.
<didrocks> hum, we do use as well upstart for session-migration on desktop?
<seb128> yes
<didrocks> ok
 * didrocks gets out his theory for some failing cases
<seb128> Trevinho, I just ran it, compiz segfaulted but the decor plugin is still in my gsettings config
<Trevinho> didrocks, seb128: is the "gsettings values not being updated without using dconf" issue still there?
<Trevinho> seb128: well... it shouldn't really... I mean if you call gsettings from that cmd you get it, but.... if you run the migration script again it should say it's not
<Trevinho> seb128: so maybe the shell call is missing something and loading the default config instead
<dbarth> charles: ping?
<Trevinho> seb128: while your lsof of compiz should say none about decor
<seb128> Trevinho, oh, indeed, lsof doesn't have it anymore now
<seb128> weird
<Trevinho> seb128: yeah, maybe the call is just wrong :)
<Trevinho> while the python call is correct
<Trevinho> seb128: aaaaaaaaaaaaah, the right path is gsettings get org.compiz.core:/org/compiz/profiles/unity/plugins/core/ active-plugins
<didrocks> Trevinho: not sure what issue you are talking about :p
<Trevinho> sorry :P
<Trevinho> didrocks: there was an issue that using gsettings.set_blah_blah("...") on migration script, then the scripts where not actually saved
<Trevinho> so most of migration scripts actually used dconf to write the settings value
<didrocks> Trevinho: nothing changed AFAIK
<Trevinho> seb128: can we retry a landing for the forcequit then?
<seb128> Trevinho, sure, still the upgrade path seems flaky, we should ensure the decor plugin is unloaded, maybe make it conflicts with unity?
<Trevinho> seb128: it's already conflicting with it and there are multiple migration scripts
<Trevinho> seb128: the one you launched + the ones in ccsm
<seb128> k, dunno how I ended up with both though
<seb128> I still think we should move libdecor.so to another binary which we don't install by default
<seb128> to clean out some of the binary depends it creates
<Trevinho> seb128: yeah, I agree, if we can still do it, I can figure it out
<seb128> Trevinho, seems it might be a bit late, which is a shame
<Trevinho> in some spare time (in theory I'm in holiday now, but the weather is pretty bad here in Barcelona right now :Â°()
<seb128> Trevinho, enjoy your holidays!
<seb128> sorry I didn't know you were off work ;-)
<Trevinho> seb128: yeah, I tried to, but I ended to be completely wet :D
<Trevinho> seb128: so... since this is still a "quite busy" period I've still some time to fix things
<l3on> Hi all !
<l3on> I'm going to remove this patch in nautilus http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/trusty/nautilus/trusty/view/head:/debian/patches/ubuntu_titlebar_css.patch
<l3on> and apply changes to themes. darkxst around ?
<seb128> l3on, he's likely sleeping at this time, he's in .au
<seb128> l3on, also I guess you want to say "you would like to suggest replacing it", right?
<seb128> l3on, because you don't have commit access so I don't see how you are going to do it without asking us first...
<l3on> seb128, yep. Right. That patch is wrong. You're are going to hardcode style properties in nautilus code. What's happen if someone use gnomeshell with Ambiance/Radiance themes ?
<seb128> l3on, no idea, darkxst did it this way because it had issues doing it in the theme iirc
<seb128> l3on, if you know how to do please open a bug with patches for review and subscribe ubuntu-sponsors
<l3on> at same time patch has border-radius set to 0 that causes also on unity on 14.04
<l3on> yep, seb128.. working on.
<mhr3> didrocks, ping? quick question - when bumping soversion, do we have to change the pkg name too? ie soversion is going from 0->1, do we have to rename libunity-scopes0 to 1?
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> mhr3, yes
<mhr3> seb128, and could we actually jump back at some point from 33 to 1?
<seb128> mhr3, that would be backward ;-)
<seb128> why would anyone do that?
<mhr3> we're forced to release with pretty much every commit
<seb128> mhr3, you could, at the risk of screwing things still using the real/previous "1" (assuming your new "1" has a different abi)
<mhr3> and we haven't really reached official 1.0
<seb128> mhr3, one days you guys are going to learn to stop changing the apis in incompatibles ways right?
<mhr3> seb128, unlikely
<mhr3> :P
<seb128> k, so you just keep bumping the soname with every upload
<seb128> and don't bother about going back to "1" one day ;-)
<mhr3> just feels wrong to release a lib with soname 33 as the first real release
<seb128> yeah, well go back to "1"
<seb128> I doubt you are going to still have users of the previous abi you called "1" by then
<seb128> mhr3, or just skip "1", go from "0" to "2"
<seb128> mhr3, you can also rename the lib to "libunity-scopes-dont-learn-what-stable-abi-means-yet.so.<n>"
<seb128> mhr3, and rename the lib the day you do learn ;-)
<kenvandine> haha
<mhr3> seb128, heh, but yes, exactly, at that point we're pretty sure noone is using anything <33
<seb128> mhr3, you guys are writing a book on "how to not do thing" right?
<mhr3> seb128, actually it's called "how ubuntu developers are forcing us to do the wrong things" :P
<seb128> mhr3, you are the ones are not able to design a proper api and stick to it... ;-)
<seb128> we just make sure you don't punch users in the face by doing incompatible changes without telling your users about those
<happyaron> seb128: I reported that bug, :(
<happyaron> seb128: for the firefox default search engine
<happyaron> seems it's bug 800304, but I'm not very sure.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 800304 in firefox (Ubuntu) "browser.search.defaultenginename does not work from distribution.ini" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/800304
<seb128> happyaron, right, I'm unsure it's a ubuntu-defaults-builder issue
<seb128> seems rather a firefox one
<seb128> chrisccoulson might be able to help you, at least to reply to questions
<happyaron> ok
<Laney> seb128: turned out to be an upstart bug ;-)
<seb128> Laney, which one? the url-dispatcher permission thing?
<Laney> seb128: yep
<Laney> echo "manual\nexec sh -c umask" > ~/.config/upstart/test.conf; start test; sudo telinit u; start test; cat ~/.cache/upstart/test.log
<Laney> or something like that, should show the difference before and after
<seb128> no cookie for upstart!
<seb128> Laney, where did you discuss/debug it?
<Laney> #-touch
<seb128> shrug, I close that one by error again ;-)
<seb128> glad to see you figured it out though
<Laney> touch hater
<seb128> haha, you got me!
<Laney> yeah, jod h got pinged so he should take a look
 * seb128 wears his "desktop4ever" badge
<ogra_> seb128, dude, its the future !
<Laney> meanwhile ted ought to add some defensive code there ;-)
<Laney> chmod it back and fix up the umask
<seb128> ogra_, the desktop is the futur, I know!
<ogra_> lol
 * Laney â climbing
<Laney> byesie bye
 * Laney forgot to patch pilot today :(
 * Laney moves it to tomorrow
<seb128> Laney, have fun!
<seb128> bregma, andyrock: what's the status of the screenlocking/screen dpms issue? did you guys talk with robert_ancell to figure out what to do next (adding interfaces to unity?) and who is doing it?
<andyrock> i'm adding the interfaces
<andyrock> and the fading effect
<seb128> k
<bregma> andyrock, is Trevinho there too?
<seb128> did you/somebody let robert_ancell know?
<bregma> andyrock, do you think you'll have something to propose today?
<seb128> bregma, Trevinho said earlier that in theory is on vac day today?
<bregma> seb128, yeah, but he's planning to visit andyrock at some point, with his laptop :)
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> bregma, Trevinho, andyrock: anyway, please keep robert_ancell updated on what he happening, he started looking at those issues the other day, I would prefer avoiding duplication (e.g not having him continuing while you guys also work on the same thing)
<andyrock> bregma, he was here before
<andyrock> ok so to keep you guys updated, i've already implemented the fade effect
<andyrock> the screen now turns off
<andyrock> but sometimes stop working
<andyrock> seb128, ^^^
<seb128> andyrock, thanks
<seb128> andyrock, stop working, like doesn't turn back on? or is unity not liking it?
<andyrock> seb128, just unity emits the ActiveChanged signal
<andyrock> but power-manager fails to turn off the screen
<seb128> weird
<seb128> well, working with some bug is better than not working ;-)
<seb128> so maybe submit that for review so things keep moving
<andyrock> well just need to finish it
<andyrock> it's under unity-team
<andyrock> so others can work on it
<elfy> seb128: do you have a couple of minutes?
<camako> I'm installing ubuntu on macbook pro.. Basically I got it running, but wifi drivers missing...
<camako> MBP model-id=10,1
<camako> ubuntu 12.04
<camako> this mac has no wired interface, so I'll have to download to flash and install from there
<camako> What packages do I need?
<czajkowski> aloha
<czajkowski> so today I keep getting https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-manager/+bug/1202754  but it's not adding any logs to it
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1202754 in update-manager (Ubuntu Saucy) "update-manager crashed with SystemExit in exit(): 0" [High,Confirmed]
<czajkowski> am on Trusty
<czajkowski> which does run very nicely
<czajkowski> thank you :)
<robert_ancell> larsu, do you have a link to the XDG_CURRENT_SESSION change?
<robert_ancell> larsu, note we are currently using XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP
<seb128> robert_ancell, XDG_CURRENT_SESSION?
<seb128> robert_ancell, hey btw ;-)
<robert_ancell> seb128, hello
<seb128> robert_ancell, I wonder if that's a typo, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=727546 has XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP
<ubot2> Gnome bug 727546 in general "gdm-session: support XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<seb128> robert_ancell, yeah, seems like a typo in the commit message
<robert_ancell> seb128, I thought as much
<seb128> czajkowski, hey, how do you trigger it?
<seb128> elfy, hey, I'm here now, better to leave some context when you have a question
<elfy> seb128: yea - sorry - bug 1284635
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1284635 in ibus (Ubuntu Trusty) "Keyboard layout changes after login" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1284635
<elfy> we're getting really itchy and worried about that in Xubuntu land
<elfy> I talked to happyaron - who said it's on his list, but he'd got higher priority things atm
<seb128> robert_ancell, thanks for investigating the lockscreen/dpms issues btw, andyrocks said earlier that he's working on making unity emits the ActiveChanged signal
<robert_ancell> seb128, cool
<elfy> RC is next week and we're stuck with a system that loses keyboard layout for anyone not using a US layout ill they go and change it
<seb128> elfy, I guess if I say 'patches are welcome' it doesn't help you?
<elfy> lol
<seb128> but reality is that we have our issues as well, and resources/hours in the day are what they are
<seb128> so if xfce has issues they probably need to help getting those resolved
<seb128> we help when we can but we are currently struggling with our lot of release issues and have no spare room to help you guys
<elfy> mmm - our issue atm to be honest is that there was no problem till the update to the latest version
<seb128> well, we are not upstream for ibus
<elfy> I understand there's only 60 minutes in an hour - if you're really lucky
<seb128> the update also resolved other issues
<seb128> we also don't see the issue you describe on GNOME or Unity
<elfy> I know
<seb128> so it's not ibus being totally buggy, just an interaction issue with xfce
<knome> seb128, it's not a long time ago that canonical wanted to set a policy that makes developers fix what they broke, even if it didn't affect them...
<knome> seb128, if something is landed late in the cycle, even if it was "just" a new version from upstream, i expect the developer(s) in question to be responsible for at least looking at the issue
<seb128> knome, what if the update came from Debian through a sync?
<knome> i don't know
<seb128> there we go
<knome> does that prove it's our problem now either?
<seb128> no, there is not blame/being "$flavor" problem there
<seb128> it's just one of a long list of issues to be resolved for release with everybody being busy
<knome> well, my point of view is:
<knome> if it came from a non-automatical debian sync (i don't know if that's the case), the one who did the sync should be at least somewhat responsive to questions about the issue
<knome> if it's an automatical sync... again, i don't know
<elfy> and I don't know enough to make a comment
<knome> i'm not a very technical person either, so i probably don't understand *all* the technical implications
<knome> would it be completely out of question to revert back to the earlier version?
<seb128> yes, it is
<seb128> the update fixes as important issues on other flavors
<knome> okay
<seb128> so you would just trade a set of issues for a similar one
<seb128> but living on an upstream-unmaintained version instead
<knome> right, i acknowledge and agree the upstream version is better
<seb128> the way forward is to fix the issue on the current one, not to dig ourself in staying on a version that is not maintained and has a bugs as well
<knome> do you know if it's a manual or automatic sync?
<seb128> it's a manual merge from happyaron
<seb128> who is the who assigned to the bug
<knome> right,
<knome> in that case i would expect at least a quick look from him to our issue
<elfy> seb128: aron xu
<seb128> but he's having higher priority work assignments
<elfy> sorry - catching up ...
<knome> sure, i understand...
<seb128> he had a look from what I know
<seb128> it just needs work
<knome> but it doesn't help us much, or fit to the "the one who breaks it, fixes it" policy
<seb128> but he's busy with paid-work priorities and not having free slots to help there
<seb128> not a lot we can do...
<knome> and i do acknowledge he didn't necessarily "break" it...
<knome> just to be clear,
<seb128> right
<seb128> that principle is right
<seb128> but real world is what it is
<knome> if a canonical employee breaks something, but has other more high priority work items, the policy doesn't apply?
<seb128> lol
<seb128> no, quite the contrary
<knome> how so?
<knome> he's working on the more high priority things now
<seb128> if some community person do a sync and never show up again, what do you do?
<seb128> hire people to find that person and force him into work?
<knome> obviously there are different realities to volunteer people
<seb128> you have probably more chance of Canonical employees to be hold responsible and help there
<knome> yes, i acknowledge that
<seb128> well, then your comment doesn't make sense
<seb128> it's not because he's a Canoncial employee that he gets a free pass
<knome> no,
<knome> i'm not saying that
<knome> let me rephrase
<seb128> we all have priority lists
<seb128> usually paid job comes first, because we need to pay for food and stuff
<knome> sure...
<seb128> then we help as free time allows
<seb128> same apply here
<knome> well, was the ibus sync paid work?
<knome> or voluntary?
<seb128> it ends up at "there are more things that need to be fixed than hours in a day"
<knome> i understand
<seb128> it was on work time (I guess)
<knome> but i also see it as: things that are broken 'only' on flavors are always lower priority issues than issues with ubuntu desktop
<seb128> but that work solved issues
<seb128> where number-of-users-benefiting-from-the-change > users-having-issues probably
<seb128> (that's assuming that Ubuntu has more users than Xubuntu)
<seb128> well
<knome> yes, so in reality it is as i said
<knome> i'm not saying that's not how it shouldn't be, i completely empathise the canonical employees..
<knome> but that's how it is
<seb128> the priority is on doing what benefits most users?
<seb128> sure it is
<seb128> would you recommend on screwing most users for the benefit of a smaller part?
<knome> and basically it means that for example, this issue will very unlikely be fixed
<knome> no.
<knome> i just said i understand why it is as it is
<seb128> right, and I understand your frustration
<knome> please understand that i'm just trying to assess what the situation for the xubuntu team here is
<seb128> but the world being what it is I don't have an answer that would make you happy I think
<knome> and it looks like: nobody has time and this fixed our issues so we will leave it as it
<knome> *is
<seb128> right, I understand that, and I'm on that side of the world as well quite often
<seb128> reporting a bug on GTK that doesn't impact GNOME ends up the same way
<knome> which leads us to the situation where we either try to find a ibus developer that understands the issue and is able to fix it in 2 weeks, or, drop ibus and make xubuntu unusable for many people
<knome> of which the latter is, unfortunately, more realistic
<seb128> yeah, I sadly don't have good alternative to suggest you
<knome> i understand
<seb128> happyaron can probably have a look, but I don't know if that's going to be before release
<knome> is there anybody else that could possibly at least look at the issue ASAP?
<knome> and if not...
<seb128> so the issue should be at least fixable in a SRU/for LTS .1
<knome> the other question is:
<knome> does it make sense to sync things this late manually, if it's unrealistic to fix regressions the new versions introduce
<seb128> the update was made because it fixes issues as said
<knome> (more of a rhetorical question, yes i know it's a balance with fixing other issues as well)
<seb128> there are probably more users happy about the update than ones unhappy
<knome> too bad there isn't any way to measure that even after the release
<seb128> you just happen to be in the unlucky minority
<elfy> well for us - it seems to break for everyone not using a US layout
<seb128> well, on xubuntu
<seb128> we got no report on GNOME or Unity
<seb128> which have a larger userbase than XFCE
<brainwash> we don't use gnome-settings-daemon :(
<seb128> (which is not an excuse for creating issues for XFCE, but if there is a call to be made)
<brainwash> or the new fork
<seb128> right
<elfy> seb128: I checked during the time I was looking at it - it affects us, studio (obviously) lubuntu, mythbuntu
<seb128> I'm just saying that reverting would hurt more users than it would help
<seb128> so that's not a position I can defend
<seb128> well, even without comparing userbases
<elfy> I realise that :)
<seb128> the way forward is not to live in the past, it's to fix the issues
<elfy> and that ;)
<brainwash> we basically just need someone who can analysis the situation and maybe explain why it fails to pick the system kb layout and falls back to en_US
<seb128> and to reply to your questions, no it's not "unrealistic to fix regressions the new versions introduce"
<seb128> it just happens it took a while for the issue to be flagged, and as we come close from release other important issues are raising priority as well
<knome> so... it's realistic that somebody fixes the bug before release?
<seb128> so we would probably have had cycles to fix it earlier
<seb128> but it's getting late and everybody is on "we need to fix those for release" and swamped with work
<knome> yep.
<knome> which is why i was asking about syncing things late in the cycle
<seb128> well, xubuntu doesn't have anybody wanting to do debugging?
<knome> we don't have anybody who's able to
<seb128> e.g you rely on the Ubuntu/Unity team or are screwed?
<knome> we can do debugging, and we can run as much testing as needed
<knome> but we are very short on developer resources this cycle
<knome> so what we can do is limited
<seb128> "that late"
<seb128> the new ibus was synced a month ago
<knome> we've even done most of our uploads via the sponsors queue
<knome> yes, i'm not saying we are perfect either
<seb128> the issue was not when the update happened
<seb128> it's that it took you guys a while to flag it as an issue
<elfy> it took a while to realise it was ibus tbh
<seb128> you should have users running the devel release and telling you when thing go wrong
<knome> seb128, we didn't want to tip the bug to the desktop team if we didn't know what was causing it, so we did our own debugging
<seb128> so you have a few days of updates to look through
<knome> the bug is filed in february
<knome> we've been looking at it since
<elfy> seb128: we do - I filed it a few days after the update I believe
<knome> it was escalated to the desktop team when we knew it's likely to be ibus that's causing the bug
<seb128> well, that's unfortunate that it didn't get raised up earlier
<seb128> anyway, no point holding blames
<seb128> not sure what to suggest doing next
<knome> well the point is, we do try to do our best to make sure we don't point the desktop team to bugs that are caused by, say, xfce packages
<seb128> do you have anyone that could test if the same issue is happening atm on Debian (which has the same ibus version)?
<knome> we can make that happen
<seb128> that would help
<seb128> or maybe try installing the debian version on xubuntu and see if it has the same issue
<seb128> that would rule in/out an Ubuntu specific issue
<knome> i tried, but it's not that easy, you would need to downgrade a lot of dependencies
<seb128> you can probably take the debian source and build it on Ubuntu
<knome> hmm, sorry, that's not what i tried.
<knome> i tried to use the version before the sync
<seb128> oh
<seb128> no, that's not useful, we know that this one works
<seb128> what would be useful is to try the version from Debian to see if the issue comes from one of our patches
<seb128> that would nail down the problem
<knome> can you point me to it, and i'll get it tested now
<seb128> http://packages.qa.debian.org/i/ibus.html
<seb128> http://ftp.iut-bm.univ-fcomte.fr/debian/pool/main/i/ibus/
<knome> thanks
<seb128> I guess those should install fine on trusty, but I didn't try
<knome> can i be in touch with you on this in the future?
<seb128> sure, that's an open channel ;-)
<seb128> you can find me (and others) pretty much any work day (less likely during the w.e)
<elfy> thanks for the help seb128
<seb128> yw!
<knome> well i guess the real question is if you are willing to hear back on it
<seb128> let me know how that goes
<knome> or if you will just dismiss (which i'd also kind of understand...)
<seb128> yes, I can't promise we can spend days on debugging
<seb128> but I'm happing trying to help with the resources we have
<knome> thanks
<seb128> yw!
<elfy> yep - thanks
<seb128> if you find out that the issue is in one of our changes I can try to make we get to the bottom of the issue before release
<seb128> if the issue is in Debian/upstream it might be more difficult
<seb128> to make sure*
<knome> yes, obviously
<ochosi> hey Laney
<ochosi> Laney: just in case you're still around, i wanted to quickly inquire about the recent change in the indicator-sound desktop file that brainwash asked about before
<ochosi> it's not really clear to me why the "Hidden=True" setting is being added now (i mean: a bit late in the cycle). or, why it is added to some indicators only
<ochosi> so i just wanted to know what's the plan with this
<ochosi> Laney: if i should talk to someone else about this, that's also fine (just let me know who to bug :))
<Laney> ochosi: hello
<Laney> tedg did it, but I can explain
<Laney> The desktop files in the /usr/share/.../xdg (whatever it is) directory turn off the ones in /etc/xdg/autostart/ when you're using upstart user sessions
<Laney> they've been added for indicators that have been converted to upstart
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> but why the Hidden=True?
<ochosi> i mean is it really necessary?
<Laney> That's exactly how you turn off an autostart file
<Laney> So yes
<ochosi> humm, i see
<ochosi> why hasnt that been done for all indicators then?
<Laney> That directory is only relevant when you use upstart user sessions
<ochosi> or has the change for the others simply not landed yet?
<Laney> it has, but maybe they haven't all been uploaded yet
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> well we've started seeing this so late now, it's quite meh to mess with our session so late in the cycle
<ochosi> and while i was monitoring some of the pending changes to the indicators (for gtk-greeter) i didn't see this one coming
<ochosi> i mean: it's quite meh for us to mess with our session...
<ochosi> we don't even have uploaders around atm
<Laney> I gave a few ways you can fix this earlier
<ochosi> so changes have to go through the sponsors queue
<ochosi> right, i guess we can launch all installed indicators in the session
<ochosi> brainwash told me about that
<ochosi> but then we'd need to have XFCE stripped from the OnlyShowIn= line
<ochosi> cause otherwise the non-functional desktop-files show up in our session's autostart manager
<ochosi> would that be a feasible change for you guys?
<ochosi> (i.e. we use "loginctl emit indicator-services-start" and -end in our session and the desktop files don't show anymore in xubuntu)
<Laney> That UI shouldn't be ignoring NoDisplay
<ochosi> right, but we can't fix that right now
<Laney> You can't drop OnlyShowIn if you want to use upstart otherwise it won't work
<Laney> Well, that's what tells the XDG autostart files when to be considered
<ochosi> hmkay
<ochosi> last question, how would blacklisting work?
<ochosi> (that's another option he mentioned)
<Laney> dunno what you mean
<Laney> If you mean not using upstart then that's /etc/upstart-xsessions
<ochosi> "blacklist the upstart autostart launcher" is what he said
<ochosi> right, but i have no idea what that will result in for us
<ochosi> that seems like a rather drastic and inconvenient change
<ochosi> not even sure whether indicators would still work for us then
<Laney> they ought to
<brainwash> blacklist might be the wrong term
<brainwash> override the conf file
<ochosi> what conf file?
<brainwash> echo manual ...
<Laney> That's for local overrides
<brainwash> .config/upstart/indicator-xyz.conf
<ochosi> brainwash: that doesn't sound like a very flexible solution though
<brainwash> it's not
<ochosi> so i'd rather rule that one out
<brainwash> just a way to control the indicator started by upstart
<ochosi> so we have two left:
<brainwash> on the user side
<ochosi> 1) don't use upstart user sessions anymore
<ochosi> 2) start indicators in the session with the signal
<ochosi> and i guess with 2) we also have to live with them showing in the session manager for now
<brainwash> or patch xfce4-session?
<brainwash> hack :)
<ochosi> well we have to patch our session anyway...
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-04-04
<jdstrand> man, I just rebooted after accumulating a bunch of updates, and 3D performance is really poor with my intel graphics
<jdstrand> eg, just opening the dash is really bad
<jdstrand> interesting, .xsession-errors says: libGL error: failed to open drm device: Permission denied
<jdstrand> libGL error: failed to load driver: i965
<jdstrand> I'm guessing that would explain it
<sarnold> permission denied? o_O
 * jdstrand guesses it is the mesa update
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: you're supposed to do what everyone else does and blame apparmor first :)
<jdstrand> hehe
<jdstrand> I don't confine compiz or X
<jdstrand> I probably should :P
<mdeslaur> then you fall back to blaming upstart :)
<jdstrand> :)
<jpds> http://i.qkme.me/3trz9o.jpg
<mdeslaur> hehe
<jdstrand> hehehe
<jdstrand> nice
<jdstrand> perfect picture
<sarnold> :D
<jdstrand> fyi, bug #1302270
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1302270 in xorg (Ubuntu) "Poor performance with recent update with i965: libGL error: failed to open drm device: Permission denied" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1302270
<Sarvatt> jdstrand: your xorg.0.log is fine and from a recent boot but the xorg.0.log.old is using modesetting instead of intel and X was started again really late, guess you rebooted before filing it? all the dmesg info that might have helped was lost, might be worth attaching /var/log/kern.log that has the historical info
<Sarvatt> tjaalton: ping re: ^, arrandale and might be the mesa 10.1 bug you were talking about
<jdstrand> Sarvatt: I did not reboot before filing. I logged in, noticed it, made a comment here, did ubuntu-bug and am still running it
 * jdstrand is testing a bunch of stuff and can't really downgrade/etc atm
<jdstrand> I don't know about the modesetting... I don't recall messing with anything like that in ages and ages
<jdstrand> maybe I did at some point...
<Sarvatt> jdstrand: using kde? i think it might be https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=75723
<ubot2> Freedesktop bug 75723 in Drivers/DRI/i965 "(regression since Linux 3.14?) brw_get_graphics_reset_status: Assertion `brw->hw_ctx != ((void *)0)' failed" [Major,New]
<jdstrand> Sarvatt: unity7
<Sarvatt> ah
<jdstrand> I hadn't rebooted in several days at least, but had been upgrading all along
<jdstrand> so I can't really pin point it
<jdstrand> is any of this interesting:
<jdstrand> [    1.716252] fb: conflicting fb hw usage inteldrmfb vs VESA VGA - removing generic driver
<jdstrand> [    1.815666] fbcon: inteldrmfb (fb0) is primary device
<jdstrand> [    2.335498] i915 0000:00:02.0: fb0: inteldrmfb frame buffer device
<jdstrand> [    2.342002] [drm] Initialized i915 1.6.0 20080730 for 0000:00:02.0 on minor 0
<jdstrand> I have 965, but I can't remember if ^ is normal
<Sarvatt> yeah thats normal
<jdstrand> I figured I'd downgrade mesa when I had a chance
<Sarvatt> your https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bug/1302270/+attachment/4064372/+files/XorgLogOld.txt looks bad but the current one looks fine..
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1302270 in xorg (Ubuntu) "Poor performance with recent update with i965: libGL error: failed to open drm device: Permission denied" [Undecided,New]
<jdstrand> that's weird
<jdstrand> I'm still in the affected session
<duflu> Sarvatt: Same issue with being stuck in software rendering for me today :( Permissions are broken for both DRM and my software config too (I can't change servers any more)
<RAOF> duflu:
<RAOF> duflu: Fallout from the systemd upload?
<stgraber> today's changes to systemd shouldn't cause anything like that, though the upgrade may restart logind which if it can't read its state properly could cause this... in theory switching VTs may do the trick, otherwise logging out and back in should (or just reboot if you're in a hurry).
<duflu> RAOF: I spy more (older duplicates). It's not specific to Intel graphics. But whatever sets the seat permissions isn't working (randomly)
<jdstrand> Sarvatt: fyi, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bug/1302270/comments/4
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1302270 in xorg (Ubuntu) "[regression] Poor performance with recent update with i965: libGL error: failed to open drm device: Permission denied" [High,Confirmed]
<duflu> Also affects nouveau and my ability to change apt configs
<jdstrand> seems duflu came upon it
 * duflu goes to link up the dupes
<jdstrand> if I add myself to the video group, it works-- so yeah, something changed with the perms
<duflu> Maybe I won't link the dupes. But it seems to be a common problem with getting permissions (nouveau too)
<duflu> RAOF: Yeah looking at the updates I got today, only systemd starts out as suspicious
<RAOF> systemd or cgroupmgr would be my high-suspicion targets.
<duflu> Oh and libudev-dev
<duflu> udev even
<duflu> Oh, udev comes from source "systemd"
<RAOF> Indeed it does.
<duflu> Yes! I reverted all the systemd packages from today's update and it's fixed
<stgraber> quick heads up, the last systemd change indeed causing this for machines without cgmanager due to extra error processing code which wasn't needed and caused an assert...
<stgraber> jdstrand is testing fixed packages, if those work, I'll push in the archive very soon
<stgraber> people affected may need to manually start logind after the update (not entirely clear if it'll do that on its own if it crashed before...)
<hikiko> hello
<hikiko> Laney, hi :) could you get a look at this branch: https://code.launchpad.net/~hikiko/unity-control-center/unity-control-center.clamp-ui-scale/+merge/214019
<hikiko> it clamps the ui scale to a value at which the slider will remain visible
<dholbach> hiya
<dholbach> are things funny for anyone else on 14.04 today?
<dholbach> I seem to have no audio interface, just a "dummy interface"
<dholbach> and every now and then compiz is using 200% cpu
<sarnold> dholbach: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/1302264
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1302264 in systemd (Ubuntu) "systemd-logind assert failure: error.c:319: Assertion failed in nih_error_get: context_stack != NULL" [Critical,Fix released]
<hikiko> dholbach, I dist-upgraded a while ago and the only "strange" thing I ve noticed was some dpkg errors
<dholbach> hikiko, I didn't see any - which ones did you see?
<hikiko> dholbach, these: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/7202139/
<dholbach> hikiko, looks like it's bug 1302300
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1302300 in isc-dhcp (Ubuntu) "package isc-dhcp-client 4.2.4-7ubuntu9 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess new pre-installation script returned error exit status 2" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1302300
<dholbach> hikiko, is the situation fixed on your end already? if not, you might want to try another dist-upgrade; or run sudo dpkg --configure -a
<hikiko> no, -f didnt solve it so I guess I have to configure dpkg
<hikiko> dholbach, with dpkg --configure -a, and apt-get -f install it's not fixed so I suppose it's a bug
<dholbach> hikiko, did you try   sudo apt-get update; sudo apt-get dist-upgrade   as well?
<hikiko> yes
<dholbach> mvo, ^
<hikiko> Preparing to unpack .../isc-dhcp-client_4.2.4-7ubuntu10_amd64.deb ...
<hikiko> /var/lib/dpkg/tmp.ci/preinst: 17: /var/lib/dpkg/tmp.ci/preinst: Syntax error: "fi" unexpected (expecting "then")
<hikiko> there's a syntax error in the installation script
<dholbach> mvo, do you have an idea how to recover from an issue like that if the usual tricks (dist-upgrade, dpkg --configure -a, etc.) don't work?
<sarnold> hikiko: you need to find a mirror that has ubuntu11
<dholbach> ahhhh ok, that makes perfect sense - thanks sarnold
<hikiko> I changed my repositories to use ubuntu .de :)
<hikiko> let's see if it goes away
<dholbach> mvo, unping :)
<dholbach> mvo, can we make "apt-get changelog <...>" act on source package names as well? :)
<sarnold> +1 :)
<mvo> dholbach: let me look into that
<hikiko> hello
<sarnold> hikiko: success I hope? :)
<dholbach> hikiko, better?
<hikiko> noooo
<sarnold> :(
<hikiko> well
<hikiko> dpkg
<hikiko> decided to remove isc-dhcp-common :D
<hikiko> so...
<hikiko> I cant run dhclient eth0
<hikiko> and I have no clue how to install the dhclient :p could you help me?
<sarnold> hikiko: check /var/cache/apt/archives/ to find an old package..
<hikiko> :D
<hikiko> well
<hikiko> the archived package
<hikiko> has the syntax error
<hikiko> so it cant be installed
<sarnold> you may have e.g. ubuntu7 or something?
<hikiko> no I ll download one
<hikiko> but wont there be any dependency issues?
<hikiko> mmm what if I download the daily build and change my sources.list to use the cd-rom to install the latest package?
<sarnold> ooof that sounds like a lot of work :)
<hikiko> yes :/
<hikiko> is there any easiest way to do it?
<sarnold> hikiko: I'd use ip or ifconfig to set an ip at random, use ip or route to add a route to your gateway, then use apt-get install isc-dhcp-whatever=specific.version.number
<hikiko> yes!! static ip !!
<sarnold> hikiko: bed tie for me, good luck :)
<hikiko> thanks a lot sarnold
<hikiko> have a good night
<sarnold> thanks :)
<czajkowski> morning
<hikiko>  just for the record I have internet with my static ip but the isc-dhcp-common cannot be installed...
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> hey hikiko
<seb128> hikiko, what's the issue/error when you try to install it?
<hikiko> line 17 in a script
<hikiko> just a sec
<hikiko> to switch desktop
<hikiko> and paste it
<pitti> hey seb128
<seb128> pitti, hey, how are you? how is IoM?
<pitti> seb128: small, green, cold, and wet :)
<hikiko> back :)
<seb128> haha
<seb128> pitti, how cold?
<hikiko> sorry there's a new error now: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/7202265/
<pitti> seb128: about 8 to 10 degrees..
<seb128> brrr
<seb128> hikiko, do you use an outdated mirror?
<Laney> greetings
<Laney> happy friday, how did that happen so soon?
<seb128> hikiko, current version is ubuntu11, it should fix the shell script error you had earlier
<seb128> Laney, happy friday!
<hikiko> which mirror do you use in your sources.list?
<hikiko> I used .de
<seb128> no mirror, archive.ubuntu.com
<hikiko> ok I will change it then
<Laney> hikiko: the idea seems reasonable
<CrazyLemon> guys i dont know what was in todays update.. but 14.04 is barely usable for me untill i kill deja-dup-monitor .. compiz is also CPU hungry
<Laney> Not sure if it's arbitrary to use the current window size though
<hikiko> Laney, seb128
<Laney> Maybe it could instead say 'a 640x480' (or whatever) window must fit on the screen
<hikiko> hello
<Laney> hey!
<Laney> also can you have the same issue with the gtk values or not?
<hikiko> I have a branch for review
<hikiko> Laney, seb128 there was a problem with the mpt's design for u-c-c: that when a toplevel win is larger than the screen size, the window manager places it to a predefined position and ignores the program's requests
<hikiko> so I ve done a new branch where we just clamp the values
<hikiko> https://code.launchpad.net/~hikiko/unity-control-center/unity-control-center.clamp-ui-scale
<Laney> yeah that's what I'm looking at
<hikiko> this branch has another "issue" but bregma said it's acceptable
<hikiko> the issue is that
<hikiko> the window size depends on 2 parameters
<hikiko> 1- an integer scale factor
<hikiko> 2- the size of the widgets it contains that depend on their font size and number of characters etc and it's not predictable
<Laney> It's why a dialog would be better, but I get that we are where we are
<hikiko> so, since in order to clamp the slider we take the window size into account
<hikiko> for different scale factors in gsettings
<hikiko> the user might see the slider clamped to a different value
<hikiko> eg: for scale factor 1, clamp=1.88 for scale factor 1.5 clamp = 1.75
<seb128> what do you call "clamp"? you limit the max value to what would put the dialog offscreen?
<hikiko> yes
<hikiko> not the dialog, the u-c-c window
<hikiko> there's no dialog
<seb128> that's what I called dialog, sorry
<seb128> but limiting the values range seems fine to me
<hikiko> so, the window never exceeds the screen boundaries
<seb128> before we landed the slider I was already suggesting to limit to 2
<hikiko> but the user might see different clamp values
<seb128> because in practice nobody is going to want to go over 2
<hikiko> well now it's limited to 1.75-1.88 in normal screens
<hikiko> because in 2 it goes offline
<hikiko> :s/offline/offscreen :p
<hikiko> sorry
<hikiko> :)
<seb128> that approach seems reasonable to me
<hikiko> great :)
<hikiko> I just wanted to make sure
<hikiko> that there's no problem!
<seb128> it's a bit hackish, but that should do
<seb128> Laney, what do you think?
<Laney> I was suggesting to use some reference size instead of the size of the current window
<Laney> but the idea is fine
<seb128> that would work for me as well
<seb128> seems even easier
<hikiko> what do you mean by reference size?
<seb128> don't get the geometry, just a fixed value
<Laney> like "you can't make a 600px window go oversize"
<Laney> or whatever constant
<hikiko> that's what I am doing
<hikiko> aaa
<hikiko> no
<hikiko> well
<hikiko> I might not explain it well
<seb128> you do
<hikiko> instead of limiting the win size to <fixed pixels>
<hikiko> I limit it to <screen's pixels>
<hikiko> in both cases there will be an unpredictable maximum value
<Laney> But you perform your calculation based on the height of the window
<Laney> right?
<hikiko> no
<hikiko> what I do
<hikiko> is that:
<Laney> + gtk_window_get_size (win, &win_width, &win_height);
<hikiko> I check that the window height
<hikiko> doesnt exceed
<hikiko> the screen height
<hikiko> because height <= width
<hikiko> and I want the window
<knome> (not necessarily, what about pivot setups?)
<hikiko> to be all visible
<hikiko> I used to choose
<hikiko> MIN (width, height)
<hikiko> but that was resulting
<knome> hikiko, can you please not use enter as punctuation? it makes the text really hard to read
<hikiko> ok sorry
<Laney> We understand what you're doing, my suggestion is to instead say "int win_height = 600;"
<Laney> But I don't think it's a big deal
<hikiko> I see :)
<hikiko> sorry
<hikiko> I thought you mean
<hikiko> win_height < 600
<Laney> It means you use a fixed size and say "A window of height 600px must always fit on the screen" instead of "This panel window must always fit on the screen" which you do at the minute
<hikiko> Laney, I'll fix this right now! I just misunderstood it!
<hikiko> you are right :)
<seb128> that seems a bit less "random"
<Laney> Well, see if it works - it'll make the code simpler
<hikiko> yes, it's a very good idea :)
<Laney> seb128: can you test something for me? bdmurray said it didn't work for him but it seems to here...
<seb128> Laney, I was just about to ask you to test something for me as well :p
<seb128> let's trade testing!
<Laney> woo!
<seb128> Laney, https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/landing-017/+packages
<seb128> Laney, the url-dispatcher workaround from ted
<Laney> ok, first try to reproduce this please https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/whoopsie-preferences/+bug/1261096
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1261096 in whoopsie-preferences (Ubuntu) "whoopsie-preferences respawns whoopsie in an infinite loop" [High,Confirmed]
<Laney> it's "start a-l-m â diagnostics, watch top for whoopsie-preferences/init spinning"
<Laney> while I put my possible fix into a branch
<seb128> Laney, ok, init/dbus toping
<seb128> dbus-monitor says
<seb128>       string "ARG0=/com/ubuntu/Upstart/jobs/startpar_2dbridge/whoopsie_2d_2dstopped"
<hikiko> Laney, there's a define: #define MINIMUM_HEIGHT 530 because according to gnome wiki: In order to fit on Netbooks screens all panels should be 675x530px
<hikiko> maybe I should just use this
<Laney> seb128: lp:~laney/whoopsie-preferences/g-spawn-sync
<Laney> man that guy loves doing things in upstart jobs
<seb128> lol
<Laney> I'd have expected some defensive measures in the code too
<Laney> With this you can still get it created with the wrong permissions, they'll just get fixed up later
<seb128> do you want to block the landing on that?
<Laney> lemme see what happens now
<seb128> Laney, I don't understand your patch
<Laney> https://developer.gnome.org/glib/stable/glib-Spawning-Processes.html#g-spawn-sync
<Laney> I guessed that the call was going wrong because those flags weren't set
 * seb128 kicks google
<seb128> Laney, first result gave me http://www.gtk.org/api/2.6/glib/glib-Spawning-Processes.html#g-spawn-sync
<seb128> which doesn't have that note
<seb128> also the note doesn't explain what happens when you don't use those flags
<seb128> it feels weird it's looping on the command
<Laney> maybe we know a guy who knows
<seb128> desrt, !
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> Laney, that branch doesn't fix it
<Laney> hmm ok, I didn't manage to get it again with that
<hikiko> Laney, fixed and it works very well in my monitor :)
<Laney> hikiko: great
<seb128> CrazyLemon, your deja-dup issue might be https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/deja-dup/+bug/1302416
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1302416 in deja-dup (Ubuntu) "deja-dup monitor was taking 6GB of memory" [Undecided,New]
<CrazyLemon> seb128 it might.. but there was a wide number of issues which are now gone - thankfully. I changed the server from si.archive.ubuntu.com to archive.ubuntu.com and that one had all the latest bugfixed which solved every issue.
<seb128> good
<CrazyLemon> is there any way i can close the bug report on LP? i opened a u-c-c bug repored and i can find the 'close' button
<CrazyLemon> cant*
<seb128> change the status to invalid
<seb128> the yellow round icon next to "new" in the status column
<CrazyLemon> i found it..thanks :)
<seb128> Laney, things go crazy when whoopsie-preferences exit
<Laney> yeah I got it to happen again in the end
<seb128> it's easy to trigger, just kill whoopsie-preference while the panel is open
<Laney> url-dispatcher seems okay
<seb128> great
<Laney> I didn't manage to get wrong permissions yet anyway
<seb128> I still need to restart my session
<seb128> to see if that fix my permissions
<Laney> it did for me
<seb128> Laney, the whoopsie issue is that whoopsie_preferences_on_set_report_crashes() keeps being called in loop
<seb128>     g_signal_connect (interface, "handle-set-report-crashes",
<seb128>                       G_CALLBACK (whoopsie_preferences_on_set_report_crashes),
<seb128>                       NULL);
<seb128> hum, no
<dholbach> hiya
<dholbach> I don't know what just happened, but my keyboard settings changed to english on their own
<dholbach> do we have a bug report for that somewhere? anything I can do to debug?
<ochosi> maybe the ibus bug?
<seb128> dholbach, hey, we don't know either ;-)
<ochosi> there's one we see in xubuntu where it always falls back to en_US
<seb128> Laney, ok, I'm going to let you debug the whoopsie thing, it's weird, it seems like whoopsie-preference keeps respawning, I guess a bug in a-l-m's code
<seb128> dholbach, did you use another session than Unity?
<dholbach> seb128, in the settings dialog it says that I'm still on German
<dholbach> seb128, not recently
<seb128> I hate keyboards
<attente> :(
<ochosi> dholbach: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/trusty/+source/ibus/+bug/1284635
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1284635 in ibus (Ubuntu Trusty) "Keyboard layout changes after login" [High,Triaged]
<knome> possibly unrelated, but who knows
<seb128> attente, not saying that because of you!
<seb128> knome, ochosi: you guys are for sure nagging about that issue :p
<seb128> dholbach, bug #1292412 as well
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1292412 in unity-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "Keyboard layout is always English(!)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1292412
<seb128> dholbach, can you change back using the indicator?
<ochosi> seb128: in all fairness, it's the first time *i* mentioned it
<dholbach> ochosi, knome: I didn't use another session and it was German up until a few minutes ago - it just changed
<seb128> dholbach, is that a one time thing?
<dholbach> seb128, yes, first time
<seb128> ochosi, yeah, that's true, I included you in the xubuntu group who keeps mentioning it ;-)
<dholbach> seb128, hum, let me see if I can re-enable the indicator somehow
<seb128> dholbach, is unity-settings-daemon running?
<ochosi> seb128: and i only mentioned it cause it seemed ibus related and also fell back to en_US. so i think that's not too bad ;)
<dholbach> seb128, yes
<seb128> dholbach, since when?
<seb128> e.g did it segfault or something?
<desrt> seb128: hi :)
<seb128> desrt, hey
<desrt> what am i supposed to know? :)
<dholbach> seb128, no crash file
<Laney> many things, but not the thing that we thought was the thing
<Laney> which turns out not to be the thing
<Laney> so the thing is still an unknown thing
<seb128> desrt, what happens if you use g_spawn_sync () with  standard_output and standard_error being NULL without using  G_SPAWN_STDOUT_TO_DEV_NULL and G_SPAWN_STDERR_TO_DEV_NULL
<Laney> but the thing is still an interesting thing, but no longer the thing
<desrt> they go to the stdout/err of the parent process
<knome> seb128, hey, it's our best bet... :)
<seb128> dholbach, since when is the process running (ps should tell you)
<seb128> desrt, well anyway, that's probably not our issue, there is a command that seems to be ran in loop, Laney spotted that error and though it could be creating the bug, but that's not it
<dholbach> seb128, which ps flag do I have to use for that_
<dholbach> ?
<seb128> dholbach, ps ux | grep unity-settings-daemon
<dholbach> seb128, since I rebooted the machine
<seb128> k
<dholbach> 09:34
<seb128> but the issue started after that?
<seb128> attente, do we have a gsettings key or something supposed to contain the current config?
<dholbach> seb128, yes, just 5m before I pinged you guys in here
<seb128> dholbach, do you remember what you did just before it happened?
<seb128> brb, need to restart my sesison
<attente> seb128: like under /org/gnome/desktop/input-sources?
<attente> dholbach: are you using an ibus input method?
<dholbach> attente, no
<attente> dholbach: if you add a different keyboard layout and switch to that, does it still persist as en_US?
<dholbach> attente, http://paste.ubuntu.com/7202445/
<dholbach> ok, let me trz
<dholbach> try
<dholbach> attente, no, doesn't seem to have an effect
<attente> dholbach: it just happened randomly during the session or at start up?
<seb128> seems like a similar description to bug #1292412
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1292412 in unity-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "Keyboard layout is always English(!)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1292412
<seb128> attente, it happened during the session
<seb128> attente, the "current" key should be 0 not 1 right?
<seb128> in his dconf's pastbin
<dholbach> attente, during the session
<seb128> what changes that index?
<attente> seb128: yeah, but what flipped it
<dholbach> does any log help?
<attente> unity-settings-daemon, indicator-keyboard
<seb128> attente, that's a good question... is that source handled by u-s-d only, or is ibus touching it?
<dholbach> I think I had indicator-keyboard disabled for a long time
<seb128> dholbach, those are in .cache/upstart
<attente> i don't think ibus is touching it
<dholbach> can't remember having seen it in months
<seb128> it's not supposed to show if there is only one layout (I think)
<attente> it shows if there is one, but doesn't if there are none
<dholbach> unable to create file '/home/daniel/.cache/dconf/user':
<seb128> dholbach, can you pastebin the full logs?
<dholbach> attente, seb128: no indicator-keyboard log
<dholbach> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7202465/
<seb128> shrug
<dholbach>  .cache/dconf was owned by root.root
<seb128> wth?
<dholbach> I have never touched it
<dholbach> I'm quite certain of that
<seb128> what was the timestamp?
<dholbach> Dec 23
<seb128> well, dconf should use XDG_RUNTIME_DIR
<seb128> dholbach, echo $XDG_RUNTIME_DIR
<dholbach> I installed the machine on Dec 22
<dholbach>  /run/user/1000
<seb128> dholbach, .cache/dconf is not supposed to be used
<dholbach> ok, I just changed the permissions anyway
<seb128> well, that's an issue but probably doesn't explain why the keymap changed during the session
<dholbach> if you want I can restart the session again and see if that helps
<seb128> attente, was there any debug info you wanted while in the session?
<seb128> dholbach, can you share your dbus.log and gnome-session-Unity.log?
<dholbach> sure
<dholbach> seb128, dbus> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7202496/
<dholbach> holy cow
<attente> dholbach: sorry, what did you mean by you had indicator-keyboard disabled? like the process isn't running?
<dholbach> 94M gnome-session-Unity.log
<seb128> dholbach, hum, don't bother about sharing that
<seb128> dholbach, maybe clean .cache/upstart, and restart your session and let's see where we stand ;-)
<seb128> your dconf seems unhappy though
<dholbach> attente, /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/indicator-keyboard-service --use-gtk is running
<dholbach> seb128, http://people.canonical.com/~dholbach/tmp/gnome-session-Unity.log.xz
<seb128> dholbach, crazyness ;-)
<seb128> dholbach, next clean the logs and restart session and let's see how are things
<dholbach> seb128, you mean remove the logs?
<seb128> dholbach, yeah, jusr mv .cache/upstart/* somewhere
<seb128> so you are sure to have only logs about the new login
<seb128> to avoid confusion
<dholbach> ochosi, knome: uploading xubuntu-artwork - just a small note: it's "LP: #123456", not "LP #123456@
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 123456 in xine-lib (Ubuntu) "podcast crashes amarok" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/123456
<dholbach> seb128, gotcha
<ochosi> dholbach: thanks a bunch! where's that @? just to know where to avoid typos the next time
<dholbach> ochosi, debian/changelog
 * knome bows
<ochosi> dholbach: weird, didn't see it here: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-art/xubuntu-artwork/trusty/revision/263
<ochosi> it says "Add new wallpaper for Trusty (LP #1298711)"
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1298711 in xubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "[UIFe] New Xubuntu wallpaper" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1298711
<ochosi> or are the brackets what you shouldn't be there?
<dholbach> ochosi, the :
<ochosi> dholbach: weird, i also don't see a ":" there. are we using different char-encoding?
<knome> ochosi, you *should* have the :
<dholbach> seb128, .dbus and .gvfs and .config/enchant also belonged to root
<dholbach> I changed them as well and will now move the logs and restart
<seb128> dholbach, what did you do to your box?
<seb128> dholbach, k
<dholbach> seb128, as I said: fresh install before Christmas, almost no changes
<ochosi> dholbach: oh ok, sry, now i get it. will keep that in mind"
<dholbach> I even still have the default wallpaper
<seb128> dholbach, you must have run a graphical app under sudo that screwed up with your directories
<dholbach> I guess
<dholbach> brb
<dholbach> no dice :(
<seb128> still buggy?
<dholbach> this is going to be a very long day :(
<dholbach> yes
<seb128> can you share your new logs?
<dholbach> sure
<dholbach> seb128, people.canonical.com/~dholbach/tmp/upstart.tar.xz
<seb128> dholbach, so what is buggy? still the keyboard?
<dholbach> seb128, yes, still English and I can't change it
<dholbach> I added a new keyboard layout, switched back, etc
<seb128> dholbach, is unity-settings-daemon running?
<seb128> dholbach, $ lsof -p $(pidof unity-settings-daemon)| grep libkeyboard
<dholbach> seb128,
<dholbach> unity-set 2074 daniel  mem       REG                8,5    57152  791889 /usr/lib/unity-settings-daemon-1.0/libkeyboard.so
<seb128> dholbach, can you unity-settings-daemon --replace --debug
<seb128> then try to change keymaps using the keybinding your configured/which is listed in the keyboard settings
<seb128> than copy the log?
<dholbach> seb128, super+space
<dholbach> seb128, that made it switch back
<dholbach> maybe I hit it accidentally?
<seb128> well, that doesn't explain why the indicator is not working
<dholbach> still I should have been able to switch back, right?
<seb128> picking a layout should work
<seb128> does it work now?
<attente> is the indicator changing the dconf setting?
<dholbach> seb128, I changed the layout in the settings page
<dholbach> seb128, I don't have a keyboard indicator - I think I must have clicked "don't show indicator" somehwere
<seb128> dholbach, that was not working earlier?
<dholbach> how can I get it to show again?
<dholbach> seb128, changes in the settings page didn't do anything
<seb128> it's at the bottom of the settings dialog
<dholbach> it was just super+space which fixed it
<dholbach> ahhh, there it is
<seb128> hum, it's confusing
<seb128> is the setting page working now if you change
<seb128> does it get buggy again if you use ctrl-space?
<seb128> super-space rather
<dholbach> seb128, ok: super-space works, indicator works too, changes in the settings page don't work
<dholbach> does that clear it up?
<dholbach> attente, ^
<dholbach> thanks a lot for the help
<seb128> dholbach, I'm unsure the settings are supposed to change the active one, they change the order
<seb128> dholbach, so you basically hit super-space by error and didn't know the keybinding/had the indicator hidden so you didn't have a way to go back
<tjaalton> ok to add this to u-s-d? https://github.com/GNOME/gnome-settings-daemon/commit/3a8beaaf380a483ce33363031d8d276c371d7af1
<dholbach> seb128, yes, that's the case
<seb128> tjaalton, https://launchpadlibrarian.net/171554356/unity-settings-daemon_14.04.0%2B14.04.20140310-0ubuntu2_14.04.0%2B14.04.20140402-0ubuntu1.diff.gz ?
<tjaalton> seb128: ooh
<seb128> dholbach, ok, sorry it took us so many step to understand the issue
<tjaalton> should've checked
<dholbach> seb128, no worries - I could have thought of using super+space myself ;-)
<seb128> dholbach, the fact that you are hidding the indicator also didn't make it obvious to change back
<seb128> or to show the actual layout
<seb128> attente, NOTABUG in the end ;-)
<seb128> attente, have a good w.e btw!
<seb128> tjaalton, ;-)
<tjaalton> makes ara happy :)
<seb128> great!
<dholbach> attente, seb128: thanks!
<seb128> dholbach, yw!
<tjaalton> hmm, something else is missing though, micmute on my thinkpad doesn't seem to work
<tjaalton> cgmanager takes 100% cpu after dist-upgrade
<Laney> get a bt of what it's doing and file a bug
<Laney> that's a stgraber thing
<tjaalton> hmm no it didn't dist-upgrade, wth
<tjaalton> ok I'll try again after this is done
<tjaalton> maybe micmute will work too :P
<seb128> Laney, https://code.launchpad.net/~hikiko/unity-control-center/unity-control-center.clamp-ui-scale/+merge/214019 looks fine to me, wdyt?
<Laney> seb128: looks ok indeed
<seb128> ok, great, let me test build/run it and then put it in a silo
<tjaalton> seb128: yep micmute works after all.. phew
<seb128> tjaalton, great!
<seb128> bah, I'm again having a non working ssh agent
<seb128> xnox, stgraber: is there any chance somebody look at those upstart script issues?
<seb128> often ssh-agent is taking over gnome-keyring-daemon's agent and I end up with a non working config
<xnox> seb128: correct. we don't have jobs for seahorse...
<xnox> seb128: i think we should add gpg, ssh, secret-service upstart jobs such that gnome-keyring would take over, on top, again.
<seb128> xnox, the issue is not seahorse, it's gnome-keyring (that's the agent for ssh/gpg)
<xnox> seb128: right, and gnome-keyring ships 4 xdg/autostart files, which race with upstart's ssh-agent job. And gnome-keyring, ideally should provide 4 upstart jobs. Or drop in an override to disable ssh-agent.
<xnox> seb128: you can try $ echo manual > ~/.config/upstart/ssh-agent.override
<xnox> seb128: and can you tell me if that fixes everything for you?
<seb128> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openssh/1:6.6p1-1 had changes to help there
<seb128>   * Don't start ssh-agent from the Upstart user session job if something
<seb128>     like Xsession has already done so (based on work by Bruno Vasselle;
<seb128>     LP: #1244736).
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1244736 in gnome-session (Ubuntu) "upstart configuration for user launches an extra ssh-agent" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1244736
<seb128> xnox, ok, let me try that
<seb128> xnox, thanks
<xnox> yeah, that helps preventing duplicate ssh-agents, it doesn't help that we want gnome-keyring to be our SSH agent on the desktop and take that role over the top of `ssh-agent' =)))
<seb128> xnox, do we do anything to uninstall indicator-sync on upgrades?
<seb128> (I still have it installed)
<xnox> seb128: well, we will need to sru something in the indicator-sync for stable releases to e.g. become a dummy empty package.
<xnox> seb128: or maybe we can make something conflict and replace it?
<seb128> not sure
<seb128> we should at least teach update-manager/the dist upgrader to uninstall it on upgrade
<seb128> there is a list of deprecated packages/things to clean iirc
<seb128> Laney, do you have an opinion on https://code.launchpad.net/~seb128/unity-control-center/depends-on-indicators/+merge/212137 ?
<Laney> seb128: I agree with you both, so feel free to do it
<seb128> Laney, thanks, I'm going to push that through today, it starts becoming a frequently reported issue on e.u.c
<pesari> hey, do you think that the trusty kernel will be backported to precise ~soon?
<xnox> pesari: only just after trusty release.
<xnox> pesari: by end of ~monthish.
<pesari> okay sounds good, thanks
<xnox> pesari: in practice it will only be ready and supported with 12.04.5 approximatelly targeted for august.
<pesari> ok
<xnox> cause X and related packages would need updates as well, but 12.04.5 desktop images will default to trusty hwe stack.
<xnox> (hwe = hardware enablement)
<brainwash> tedg: hey, we are testing a patch to start indicator-services via upstart in xubuntu. it works fine, but we need to hide the autostart launchers, so that they don't show up in our autostart managing app. is the right approach to remove XFCE from OnlyShowIn= or add it NotShowIn= ?
<brainwash> I've edited the .desktop files accordingly and the indicators still launch properly for me
<tedg> brainwash, Remove from OnlyShowIn
<brainwash> what about indicator-bluetooth and -power? they don't have this line
<xnox> brainwash: tedg: the right aproach is to ship override in the /usr/share/upstart/xdg no?
<xnox> brainwash: tedg: cause that xdg dir is added in sessions that are managed by upstart, which xubuntu is.
<tedg> xnox, Read backlog from yesterday :-)
<xnox> tedg: oh, i'm so out of date, always =)
<tedg> xnox, Yes, this is about their configuration app, not starting them :-)
<brainwash> exactly :)
<xnox> tedg: bah, meh. I'm wrong as always =)
<tedg> brainwash, Hmm, does your configuration app use the OnlyShowIn attribute?
<brainwash> we don't want to confuse the user with showing unfunctional autostart launchers in our config app
<tedg> brainwash, Guessing it's ignoring that? Because if it's "OnlyShowIn" for Unity it really shouldn't show up.
<brainwash> right, but -sound and -application do contain XFCE
<tedg> Yes, those should go. But I'm worried it won't be a complete solution if the app doesn't look at OnlyShowIn.
<brainwash> -power and -bluetooth don't even have OnlyShowIn
<tedg> Oh, that's right, their updates are still stuck in CI Train.
<brainwash> it does consider OnlyShowIn
<brainwash> -session and -datetime are already hidden
<tedg> seb128, Can we land all the startup fix branches?
<seb128> tedg, I doubt it so close from release
<xnox> tedg: prepare SRUs
<seb128> tedg, we seem to already have issues with the ones we landed
<tedg> seb128, We kinda need them to fix this issue on XFCE
<brainwash> we are still testing the patch to launch them via upstart
<tedg> seb128, And we're fixing those, but we need them to be consistent to have a good fix.
<seb128> tedg, they were complaining about -sound yesterday which has the branch landed
<tedg> seb128, Yes, and they're testing the fix for that, but it breaks other indicators because they're not consistent.
<seb128> shrug, what a mess
<brainwash> long story =S
<seb128> we should have stayed on the old autostart
<tedg> No, we should have landed the startup fixes in Feb when they were done and just moved on :-)
<seb128> so we have even more bugs today
<seb128> I hate those changes, they are bringing complexity and bugs without benefits
<seb128> which is why I've tried to stay away from them
<seb128> I'm not going to block others to land them, but I'm not really wanting to step into that
<tedg> They're removing code that is maintained in libindicator which is poorly done to Upstart, which has a better process management.
<seb128> except that upstart is not managing all sessions
<seb128> so we end up keeping the old way
<seb128> and adding the new one
<seb128> not to mention that we now get stuff like indicators not stopped on the greeter
<seb128> which let cgroups/logged users actives where they shouldn't
<Laney> Pretty sure you don't want to mess with OnlyShowIn
<Laney> Those desktop files have NoDisplay=true so whatever UI ought not to be showing them
<tedg> I'm all for dropping the old way. It's just there for compatibility with folks like GNOME2.
<tedg> seb128, Those bugs would have happened regardless, because I'm betting in that case dbus is sticking around too. Because if it died, the indicators would die.
<seb128> could be
<seb128> anyway it feels like close from release to land those
<seb128> if you get Laney/release team about it those I can put a landing for you though
<seb128> I just decline responsability for bugs that are coming from those changes
<tedg> I feel like we need consistency or we're just going to find rough edges if they don't work the same.
<Laney> What's the problem if they're started by both in reality?
<Laney> The second one just bails out
<brainwash> we'll investigate and see if we can simply hide the launchers based on NoDisplay=true
<tedg> Laney, The issue right now is that not all the indicators have the NoDisplay entry in the upstart directory.
<tedg> There's no real consistency
<Laney> I mean for trusty, for umbongo we can do the good thing when there's 6 months to fix stuff
<Laney> The only problem I have on my !upstart session is that application doesn't work
<knome> the problem is that trusty is the LTS, umbongo isn't
<Laney> because of the no watchers thing
<Laney> that's not the problem
<Laney> if there was a big issue then it would be
<Laney> but there isn't
<Laney> That's a reason to not do risky things less than a week before the final freeze
<tedg> For trusty we have some indicators doing the NoShowIn in /etc/xdg and some have Hidden in /usr/share/upstart/xdg
<knome> i vote for consistency, whatever the way it was
<knome> we will adapt to that.
<tedg> We do have the watchers thing as well, not sure how the folks are handling that now.
<Laney> The hidden thing is right, but I don't get what the actual problem is with leaving it inconsistent
<Laney> We discovered straight away that one desktop isn't ready for the change
<Laney> (that came because OnlyShowIn there was updated to include XFCE)
<Laney> (the other ones just have Unity which is fine with it)
<tedg> The branches have been in queue since the middle of Feb. Saying "too late" seems like a bad answer.
<dobey> Laney, seb128: do you guys usually build system-settings with srcddir == builddir or something?
<seb128> I usually bzr bd it and work in the builddir
<seb128> Laney, btw, do you receive/filter the "request review" emails? or do those end up in your spambox?
<Laney> for what?
<seb128> spam->launchpad ;-)
<seb128> Laney, u-c-c, I was wondering if you saw e.g https://code.launchpad.net/~seb128/unity-control-center/crp-gcc-unity/+merge/214018
<Laney> yeah but Robert had already done it
<seb128> right, I sent it yesterday morning though and it was a trivial one
<seb128> I was wondering if you queue/flush or if you didn't see it
<seb128> I would usually be fine waiting some days, but we are getting close from freeze ;-)
<Laney> I did queue it but then didn't get back to it that day
<Laney> soz
<seb128> k, fair enough
<seb128> tedg, speaking about indicator upstart jobs, do you have any idea about https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-application/+bug/1302123 ?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1302123 in indicator-application (Ubuntu) "Won't respawn when restarting unity-panel-service" [High,Confirmed]
<tedg> seb128, Yup, fixed in the branch.
<seb128> tedg, "the" branch?
<tedg> seb128, It's also the reason nm-applet doesn't show on the greeter
<tedg> seb128, The startup-cleanup branch for indicator-application
<seb128> tedg, no, I landed that branch a month ago
<seb128> tedg, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~indicator-applet-developers/indicator-application/trunk.14.04/revision/246
<tedg> seb128, yeah, the problem there was that I hadn't pushed the last changes to it :-(
<seb128> tedg, sorry, more recently, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-application/12.10.1+14.04.20140324-0ubuntu1
<seb128> tedg, there is still no mp with those fix that I can see?
<seb128> tedg, https://code.launchpad.net/indicator-application/+activereviews
<tedg> https://code.launchpad.net/~ted/indicator-application/startup-cleanup/+merge/212726
<tedg> I forgot to change it's status :-(
<seb128> thanks
 * seb128 test build that
<tedg> seb128, It looks like bug 1296715 has LO setting those actions to disabled. We're rendering it correctly.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1296715 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "Menu items are greyed out in Libreoffice menu." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1296715
<seb128> tedg, thanks for investigating
<tedg> Sweetsha1k, ^
<seb128> Sweetsha1k, ^ one for you
<tedg> Oh, one thing to note that screwed me up, It's not the "add" menu but the "insert" menu. Guessing a reverse translation.
<tedg> Started with "Oh, my, the whole add menu is missing!"
<Sweetsha1k> seb128, ricotz: libreoffice 4.2.3.3 tagged upstream, tarballs build, source package build, binaries building locally right now ...
<Sweetsha1k> tedg: meh
<Sweetshark> lucky me. That bug by tedg was for that Sweetsha1k guy, not for me.
<seb128> Sweetshark, sponsoring time!
<seb128> lol
<Sweetshark> seb128: is the accessodf thing sponsored btw? see https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=743634
<ubot2> Debian bug 743634 in libreoffice-accessodf "libreoffice-accessodf: MessageBox API changed in LO 4.2 :/" [Important,Open]
<seb128> Sweetshark, no, that's what happens when you use IRC pings rather than bugs/ubuntu-sponsors :p
<seb128> Sweetshark, let me do it now
<Sweetshark> seb128: thx
<seb128> Sweetshark, done
<seb128> Sweetshark, bah, got rejected, the version is older than the one in trusty-proposed
<Sweetshark> seb128: urgh, seeing that now - will fix that.
<seb128> thanks
<l3on> darkxst around ?
<seb128> l3on, he's in .au, it's like middle of the night there
<l3on> thanks seb128 :)
<seb128> yw
<Sweetshark> seb128: next try http://people.canonical.com/~bjoern/trusty/accessodf_0.1-4ubuntu1_source.changes and http://people.canonical.com/~bjoern/trusty/accessodf_0.1-4ubuntu1.diff
<ricotz> Sweetshark, nice, did you push the source-package somewhere already?
<Sweetshark> ricotz: not yet, will do if the build finishes ...
<Sweetshark> ... and whatever
<Sweetshark> ricotz: pushing it now.
<Sweetshark> s/and/ah/
<ricotz> Sweetshark, alrighty ;)
<seb128> Sweetshark, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/trusty/+source/accessodf/0.1-4ubuntu1
<Sweetshark> seb128: \o/
<seb128> mvo, do you think you could have a look to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-manager/+bug/1301776? Not sure if that's a compiz or update-manager issue (I mentioned it to Trevinho some time ago in the cycle)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1301776 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "Update manager is really small and not resizeable" [High,Confirmed]
<mvo> seb128: looking
<seb128> mvo, danke
<mvo> seb128: hm, looking at the code it might be on purpose, is design cool with the window being resizable?
<seb128> mvo, I don't know, that's a question for mpt ;-)
<seb128> mvo, if it's on purpose, can we make it a bit less small maybe? https://launchpadlibrarian.net/171657786/update-manager-is-small.png is a bit ridiculous ;-)
<Sweetshark> ricotz: packages are at https://launchpad.net/~bjoern-michaelsen/+archive/libreoffice-staging
<mvo> seb128: aha, I think I get it - with details its supposed to be resizable, when no details are there it seems to be its not supposed to be resizable
<seb128> mvo, I'm never going to understand designers I think, why don't they let users resign their windows if they want? ;-)
<ricotz> Sweetshark, thx!
<seb128> bregma, andyrock: what's the status of the lockscreen/power manager? any chance it lands this week still?
<seb128> bregma, you should probably put a landing back for the force quit dialog thing as well
<bregma> seb128, I'll be doing that Unity landing in a bit
<bregma> seb128, I've already pinged andyrock on the lockscreen status, I'm waiting for his reply
<seb128> bregma, ok, thanks
<Laney> seb128: http://people.canonical.com/~laney/package-junkyard/ could you try this one please
<seb128> mvo, well, even if we let resize the default shouldn't be that small
<andyrock> bregma, can land tomorrow if I work tomorrow
<seb128> Laney, seems to fix it
<andyrock> seb128, ^^^
<Laney> seb128: *phew*
<seb128> andyrock, are you supposed to work tomorrow? ;-)
<andyrock> it's saturday
<andyrock> I can try
<seb128> andyrock, right, sorry about that, but it's getting close from release freeze :/
<andyrock> seb128, yeah and it's a complicated piece of software
<andyrock> :D
<seb128> Laney, well done ;-)
<Laney> well, i don't understand why it's broken
<seb128> andyrock, I warned you guys that it was late to land a feature like the lockscreen, when you did it...
<Laney> but we love a good workaround
<mvo> seb128: yeah, so this looks like this is a issue with compiz :/ I can resize just fine with metacity running
<mvo> seb128: and the code set the correct gtk_window_set_resize(True/False) at the right spots AFAICT
<seb128> mvo, well, different behaviour doesn't mean bug
<seb128> k
<seb128> so one for Trevinho then
<mvo> seb128: how do you mean?
<seb128> mvo, I mean that some wm let you resize things that they shouldn't, e.g the "it works with $otherwm" doesn't always mean it's compiz which is buggy (even if it's often the case ;-)
<mvo> seb128: fair enough :) in this case it seems u-m is setting the hints at the correct times but for some reason they are not picked up
<seb128> Laney, what is looping (I didn't look at the code)? Do we end up with something owning the bus name and a codepath trying it loop to claim it and failing or..?
<seb128> mvo, http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/03/11/%23ubuntu-desktop.html#t18:54
<seb128> mvo, that was the previous discussion with Trevinho ... I'm going to add compiz to the bug/assign to him
<mvo> seb128: thanks, gtg to get dinner now
 * mvo waves
<seb128> mvo, do you still think we should change the default geometry to bit less small though?
<seb128> mvo, enjoy, and have a good w.e!
<mvo> seb128: yes, that is a good idea
<Laney> seb128: AFAICT when whoopsie-preferences went away it emitted PropertiesChanged which triggered the handler inside alm which then got into a loop with the checkbox toggled handler
<Laney> But it's all done with gdbus-codegen so quite hard to get at
<Laney> I think that sometimes it was seeing the wrong result for some reason
<seb128> looks like something for desrt ;-)
<Laney> I think the backend managed to get the opposite idea of the checkbox state to the ui
<Laney> which triggered a loop toggling the setting on and off
<Laney> from the property callback to the toggled callback on the togglebutton
<seb128> k
<seb128> isn't that a bug that whoopsie-preferences is emitting that PropertiesChanged?
<seb128> the "out of sync" seems also a bug on the alm side
<seb128> that code is not great :/
<seb128> well, at least we have a working workaround
<Laney> It does it all through gdbus so dunno
<Laney> Never emits that signal explicitly
<Laney> But it could be using that wrong
<Laney> anyway ;-)
<seb128> Laney, you didn't manage to do your shifted piloting day it seems ;-)
<Laney> yeah, my bad
<Laney> I'll shift it one more time(!)
<seb128> well, monday is likely to have more in the queue ;-)
<Laney> if it's the first thing on monday then I can't get stuck doing something else before it
<Laney> bah
<seb128> (assuming some contributor are going to use the w.e to get work up for review)
<Laney> stupid gcal permissions
<seb128> ok, on that note I'm away for a bit
<seb128> no exercice today, I feel tired, but still going to walk around for a bit and see some outside
<Laney> get on your bike!
<seb128> be back in a bit to clean up emails backlog and stuff and then calling it a week
<seb128> Laney, that's an idea ;-)
<seb128> k, bbiab
<seb128> have a good w.e for those who are taking off before I'm back!
<Laney> hf, you too!
 * Laney gets a webkit ready to upload for building over the weekend
<Laney> will block it in proposed, that's if it actually does build Â¬_Â¬
<andyrock> seb128, do you know if when the screen is locked but not is on
<andyrock> org.gnome.screensaver GetActive
<andyrock> should be True or False
<andyrock> ?
<seb128> andyrock, no idea about that sorry
<xclaesse> does mediascanner has another purpose in life than taking 100% CPU ?
<brainwash> eating memory maybe?
<darkxst> l3on, am now
<l3on> darkxst, bug 1302077
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1302077 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "Hardcoded css style checks on GTK Theme instead of XGD_CURRENT_DESKTOP" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1302077
<l3on> but I have to go right now
<l3on> this tricks are odd ...
<l3on> *these
<l3on> even the patch ubuntu_show_titlebar.patch (always in nautilus) should be dropped. It's just a workaround because unity+compiz does not handle csd_windows correctly. You should instead fix compiz (or unity)
<darkxst> l3on, nautilus uses a non-standard headerbar/csd implemention
<darkxst> and Ubuntu doesnt want CSD's
<darkxst> but Ubuntu GNOME does
<l3on> so, you have a problem :P
<darkxst> and the checks were based on theme, since they mess up things with high contrast and adwaita
<l3on> so darkxst, you're in gnome-shell and you're using Ambiance. what happen to nautilus?
<l3on> or, you're in Unity and you're using Adwaita. what happen to nautilus?
<darkxst> first case will display without CSD's
<darkxst> second will be with CSD's
<darkxst> things will be a bit saner next cycle with gtk 3.12
<l3on> ok with next cycle. but right now your patch does not work properly in Unity if users used onther theme with .header-bar { border-radius: some.px }
<l3on> am I wrong ?
<darkxst> l3on, overrides are only applied to ubuntu themes
<l3on> yep, I'm wrong. Anyway you're overring also un gnome-shell if I use Ambiance. This is wrong
<bigon> hey, so let's ask here too
<bigon> I'm thinking about pkging nautilus-sendto 3.8 in debian (the version that removes all the plugins) now that empathy has drop its own nst plugins
<bigon> is it a problem for you?
<darkxst> l3on, Ambiance is very broken in gnome-shell anyway
<l3on> someone's working on https://code.launchpad.net/~l3on/ubuntu-themes/gnome-shell-fixes
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-04-05
<roctawser> I am using ubuntu 14.04 beta 2.  Whenever I do a software update, I get the message that a "partial upgrade" is available.  Have other people reported the same thing?
<l3on> Hello!... can I help joining the lp:~gnome3-team ? I would like to update gedit and something else...
<darkxst> l3on, sure, send me or (ricotz) debdiffs of the updates
<darkxst> once you have done a few updates we can look at giving you upload access
<l3on> good! :)
<darkxst> l3on, and you should join the ubuntugnome-packaging team
<darkxst> gnome3-team is now basically just for upload rights to the ppa's, not a team as such
<darkxst> anyway its late here, so I am off for the night!
<l3on> :)
<l3on> should I request join on ubuntu-gnome-packagin ?
<darkxst> l3on, after you provide an updated package, sure! also #ubuntu-gnome
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-04-06
<LLuis> hi
<LLuis> can anybody help me
<LLuis> !!!!!!!!!!!!!1
<ubot2> Factoid '1' not found
<LLuis> HI
<KombuchaKip> Hey folks. After many years of people asking, I am attempting to implement this feature request for Simple Scan. Please show your support on the Launchpad page if you are affected by this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/simple-scan/+bug/483391
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 483391 in Simple Scan "Extract text using optical character recognition (OCR)" [Wishlist,In progress]
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-03-30
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> good morning
<seb128> lut didrocks & desktopers
<didrocks> re seb128 :)
<seb128> didrocks, bug #1437633 might be something for you
<ubot5> bug 1437633 in ubuntu-system-settings (Ubuntu) "Choosing not to report crashes and errors setting reverts" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1437633
<pitti> bonjour didrocks et seb128 ! avez-vous eu un bon week-end ?
<seb128> hey pitti, wie gehts?
<seb128> w.e was ok, assembling fournitures for the most parts and it has been windy and rainy
<didrocks> seb128: hum, are you sure? it's on the device
<didrocks> seb128: it doesn't use, oh wait!
<didrocks> yeah
<seb128> didrocks, no, but you changed how the status is stored iirc?
<didrocks> or notâ¦ shuoldn't beâ¦
<didrocks> seb128: right, but they aren't using vivid
<didrocks> so no vivid whoopsie-preferences/whoopsie
<pitti> seb128: gut, danke! we had a nice concert on Saturday, Sting and Paul Simon
<didrocks> seb128: or they backported one of those to rtm and not the other?
<pitti> and I took some time to brush up our holiday photos
<seb128> pitti, oh, is that good? they are playing in Amsterdam and I was pondering getting tickets
<pitti> seb128: Sting is amazing
<didrocks> bonjour pitti :) jdll ce week-end (http://www.jdll.org/). J'ai donnÃ© un talk, il y avait fredp aussi Ã  la maison
<pitti> seb128: Admittedly Paul Simon is past his best years; still good, but not comparable any more to the Simon & Garfunkel times
<seb128> didrocks, oh, right ... no, it's that popey reported and I assumed it was on vivid channel
<seb128> but re-reading the descriptions seems not
<didrocks> seb128: seems bqish, but it can be that for whatever reason they took one of whoopsie/whoopsie-preferences without the other one
<didrocks> and they need both to be here for the new handling status
<seb128> didrocks, I don't think so, maybe something else, maybe updating to vivid would fix it :-)
<didrocks> let's confirm once popey is around
<didrocks> seb128: ahah, yeah :)
<didrocks> seb128: on the technical level, what happens is that the UI talks to a dbus activated service running as root which commits the values to /etc/default/whoopsie (or does the right thing in the new version)
<didrocks> seb128: can be in never really worked and the life app cycle prevent the daemon to successfully starts?
<didrocks> it*
<seb128> didrocks, yes and no
<seb128> I think runtime restriction are related to Mir
<seb128> system services run fine
<seb128> I don't think we need tweaks to the system to be able to run avahi or cups
<didrocks> ok, so doesn't seem to be it, it's a simple polkit + dbus activation
<didrocks> ok, let's see once popey is around
<didrocks> pitti: btw, I didn't see a bug report about it, but someone pinged me about some vmware related mount blocking the system to start
<didrocks> pitti: I still have his pastebins, interested?
<didrocks> (vmhgfs mount type)
<pitti> didrocks: sure, let's see what it says
<didrocks> http://paste.ubuntu.com/10660233/
<didrocks> -> which leaded me to see the issue was on the mount points, and so, I asked for fstab: http://paste.ubuntu.com/10660243/
<didrocks> commenting the .host line did it
<didrocks> did google a little bit about it, found some info on arch, but nothing that relevant
<pitti> didrocks: you don't happen to have "systemctl cat mnt-hgfs.mount", do you?
<didrocks> pitti: no, the guy was mostly in a hurry to get a system booting, I asked him to open a bug, seems he didn't
<pitti> didrocks: yeah; would be interesting if (1) sudo mount /mnt/hgfs works manually, and (2) if it works under upstart
<pitti> didrocks: the main difference between the two AFAICS is that systemd blocks on failed mounts, while upstart doesn't always
<pitti> ("nofail" mount option changes this)
<pitti> so my initial guess is that /mnt/hgfs never worked because of missing drivers or whatnot
<didrocks> pitti: the user told me he had the share working when booting with upstart though
<pitti> ok, then we need the output of (1) I guess
<pitti> "mount process exited, code=exited status=1
<pitti> i. e. it failed
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, I'll ping him if I see him online again
<didrocks> I would be surprise if those kinds of share doesn't work under systemd, seems like some users got them working from my search
<didrocks> pitti: btw, you didn't see drama either on the upstart-sysv transition?
 * didrocks got some emails because third-parties like labs.online.net install manually the list of ubuntu-minimal (they copied the list and aptitude installâ¦)
<pitti> didrocks: no, I'm not aware of any reports about that
<didrocks> pitti: no news is good news (and at least, now, we know who wouldn't have used systemd by default because of cases like this)
<Laney> duuuuuuuuuuudes
<didrocks> Laneyyyyyyyyyyyyy \o/
<didrocks> how are you? how were your holidays?
<Laney> heeeeeeeeeey didrocks
<Laney> good and great thanks!
<Laney> plenty of walking & eating
<didrocks> nice weather overall?
<seb128> Laney, wb!
<seb128> did you have good holidays?
<Laney> mixed, this was scotland :p
<Laney> some days were quite fine but it did rain for a few
<Laney> hey seb128
<Laney> was quite fine, thanks
<Laney> it's a picturesque area :-)
<Laney> how was the week + weekend?
<didrocks> yeah, Julie really wants to visit there :)
<didrocks> Laney: was nice overall, did some pretty interesting upstart transition, which triggers some issues for companies not using standard ubuntu :p
<didrocks> (like not using ubuntu-minimal, reinstalling packages from their own list, with aptitude, of courseâ¦)
<Laney> O_O
<Laney> "don't do that"
<didrocks> that was pretty much my response, but they insist and want to have some additional dependency which would break anyone else :p
<pitti> welcome back Laney!
<Laney> hey pitti
<Laney> wb to you too!
<Laney> (not sure when you returned :P)
<pitti> Laney: last Thursday
<Laney> aha
<popey> didrocks: seb128 it was on a shipping bq retail handset running whatever comes on it out of the box (so not vivid)
<seb128> popey, can you easily reproduce? can you try if vivid has the same issue?
<seb128> could be a bug for Laney :-)
<seb128> Laney, wb :-)
<popey> sure
<seb128> Laney, speaking about bug #1437633
<ubot5> bug 1437633 in whoopsie (Ubuntu) "Choosing not to report crashes and errors setting reverts" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1437633
<seb128> I think you looked at the u-s-s/whoopsie integration code before
<popey> i see no /etc/default/whoopsie on vivid
<didrocks> popey: vivid is different
<didrocks> there is only /etc/whoopsie, but this one doesn't handle the whoopsie daemon state
<popey> it doesn't work on vivid either
<didrocks> hum
<popey> reproduced on a nexus 7
<popey> running vivid r150
<didrocks> popey: a nice hint is to disable it
<didrocks> and look if there is a whoopsie .override in /etc/init/
<popey> there is a whoopsie.conf in /etc/init
<didrocks> and no .override once you disable it in the UI?
<popey> correct
<popey> no .override
<didrocks> I would say the UI isn't calling the right things in whoopsie.preferences
<didrocks> at it's consistent between vivid and rtm
<popey> my vivid is a little outdated, lemme update
<didrocks> popey: wait
<popey> ok
<didrocks> that's interesting
<didrocks> how outdated is it?
<popey> current build number: 150
<popey> device name: flo
<popey> channel: ubuntu-touch/devel-proposed
<popey> not that bad
<popey> last update: 2015-03-27 09:45:51
<didrocks> popey: ah ok, no change then
<popey> although system settings crashed when i tried to update :)
<didrocks> if you were on older whoopsie-preferences, this one directly still read/write to /etc/default/whoopsie
<didrocks> so that would have been an indication
<didrocks> but yeah, my things stays: I guess whoopsie-preferences isn't called
<didrocks> popey: when you check/uncheck, can you look if whoopsie-preferences is running?
<seb128> didrocks, popey, remember that the fs is ro on the touch image so we might have to set paths are writable for things to work
<seb128> like /etc/whoopsie
<didrocks> seb128: doesn't explain rtm though, (or it never worked)
<didrocks> but yeah, on vivid, that's a nice one
<didrocks> seb128: I wonder even how we could do that .override thus?
<didrocks> (as we need to have the file present to turn it rw IIRC)
<seb128> not sure, pitti might know, he looked a bit only similar issues iirc
<popey> didrocks: yes, whoopsie-preferences does end up running
<didrocks> ok, it's called, but something prevents it to write (on rtm, let's forget about vivid for now which is different and will be broken from seb128's remark)
<didrocks> did it ever worked?
<seb128> I think it didrocks
<didrocks> maybe /etc/default/whoopsie was never writableâ¦
<seb128> ups
<seb128> it did
<seb128> Laney looked at it a while ago iirc
<seb128> Laney, ^?
<didrocks> I have no clue for bq, let's see once Laney is done with his backlog
<seb128> bq is not different from the emulator or mako afaik
<didrocks> once that's fixed, let's look at vivid to not duplicate if there is more work involved in the system settings side
<seb128> or do you mean "touch"?
<didrocks> yeah, "rtm"
<seb128> k
<didrocks> mostly
<Laney> erm ok
<Laney> I could flash the rtm image
<popey> well, /etc/default/whoopsie is a read only file when I try and edit as root with vi
<popey> and i see no mount in "mount | grep default" which would match it
<popey> so yeah, looks read-only
 * didrocks wonders how it could have worked thenâ¦
<seb128> Laney, the question was rather "did it ever work", which I though you might remember because you looked at it a while ago
<seb128> Laney, feel free to say "dunno" ;-)
<Laney> it's definitely dunno
<seb128> k
<Laney> I probably had it writable though
<seb128> no worry
 * popey wonders if someone tested on a device which had been set RW (in order to add PPAs for testing) which would cloud the result
<popey> ya
<Laney> so if it is this then I would never have seen the problem
<seb128> right
<seb128> most of us use rw
<seb128> where do we set locations are writable again?
<Laney> dpkg -S writable-paths
<popey> (this is one reason I bought a bq phone and haven't changed it at all)
<seb128> popey, good move :-)
<seb128> popey, can you try if replying to sms from the messaging menu works for you?
<popey> sure.
 * popey finds a SIM
<didrocks> ok, so we need to add /etc/default/whoopsie (rtm), /etc/whoopsie and /etc/init/whoopsie.override (vivid)
<didrocks> the issue is that whoopsie.override doesn't exist potentially, so it needs test
<didrocks> once we switch to systemd, we will have the same issue as well
<didrocks> (but the path is more complex and subject to change thereâ¦)
<larsu> seb128: I totally forgot proposing this on Friday: https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/ubuntu-themes/progress-bars/+merge/254544
<larsu> seb128: do you (or Laney if his backlog isn't killing him yet) backport that patch and have a look at the branch?
<larsu> s/do/can
<larsu> Laney: hi btw! How are you?
<Laney> hey larsu!
<Laney> doing good thanks
<Laney> good to be back ;-)
<Laney> what about you?
<larsu> liar! :P
<Laney> where can I see the effect of this branch?
<larsu> I'm good as well thanks
<larsu> any progress bar on the system
<larsu> I usually test with widget factory
<larsu> not sure if this is uife material as well
<didrocks> Laney: with his branch, your life will be better, you will lose weight, feel stronger, reducing stress and better looking too!
<didrocks> </marketing>
<Laney> I'LL TAKE SIX
<didrocks> ;)
<larsu> didrocks: clearly fake marketing. Laney can't look any better
<larsu> you need to adjust your targetting algorithms ;)
<didrocks> larsu: yeah, the ad targetting script isn't great yet :p
<popey> seb128: yes, it works
<larsu> didrocks: I think you want to market this towards progress bars (and possibly other widgets)
<larsu> but then, this branch makes them gain weight actually
<didrocks> larsu: not sure they have upload rights though :)
<didrocks> ahah
<larsu> haha
<didrocks> popey: do you mind trying on vivid with /etc/whoopsie and /etc/init/whoopsie.override?
<didrocks> popey: I'm unsure if setting an unexisting file at boot would work though
<popey> sure, what do I need to do?
<didrocks> popey: oh sorry, I thought you were talking about the whoopsie thing, not the sms one, confusion :)
<didrocks> popey: forget about it for now then :)
<seb128> popey, thanks for testing
<seb128> larsu, can add to my list
<larsu> I think Laney's on it
<seb128> cool
<popey> np
<larsu> hm, chpe has been looking at my terminal patches
<popey> seb128: feel free to ping me to confirm anything else on the retail device which doesn't require going RW or otherwise messing it up :)
<larsu> and started committing some
<seb128> popey, noted, thanks :-)
<larsu> ugh, and wants gmenumodel features for the others...
<Sweet5hark> moin.
<seb128> hey Sweet5hark
<seb128> had a good w.e?
<Sweet5hark> seb128: pretty good. bad weather, so no bad conscience when staying inside hacking ;)
<seb128> hehe
<seb128> what did you hack on?
<Sweet5hark> seb128: http://people.canonical.com/~bjoern/vivid/4.4.1/libreoffice_4.4.1-0ubuntu2_source.changes <- as discussed please consider this for upload for the kubuntu breeze icons. No upload of libreoffice-l10n needed for this one.
<seb128> Sweet5hark, k
<Sweet5hark> seb128: hacked on the UNO (C++/python/java/starbasic extension bindings) for tables in writer. I ran across that code fixing something else, realized how horrible it is while doing that and decided it needs a complete overhaul -- if only to make it less of a maintainance horror down the line.
<seb128> Sweet5hark, libreoffice sponsorized
<didrocks> hey Sweet5hark!
<seb128> Sweet5hark, you should have played UNO the card game, it's probably more fun :p
 * Sweet5hark killed some 500-1000 lines of C++ that were obsolete/nonsense/copypasta in there ...
<Sweet5hark> hehe
<Sweet5hark> seb128: thx for the upload
<seb128> yw!
<Sweet5hark> didrocks: heya!
<seb128> didrocks, writable-paths has a line "/etc/init/ssh.override                  auto                    persistent  transition  none" so I guess we could do the same for whoopsie?
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, there is no /etc/init/ssh.override at boot?
<seb128> didrocks, I'm unsure on a new device, mine has one because I've used qtcreator to connect to it etc
<seb128> but I guess not
<didrocks> seb128: worth a try anyway
<seb128> yeah
<didrocks> do you handle that one, or want me to?
<seb128> I'm going to mp changes after lunch
<didrocks> ok
<seb128> I can handle it
<didrocks> thanks!
<seb128> thanks for the guidance ;-)
<didrocks> yw ;)
<Laney> larsu: with "2" the "50%" in widget factory overlaps the progress bar
<Laney> do we need the gtk patch from this bug?
 * Laney builds an updated gtk
<larsu> Laney: yes
<larsu> it has weird spacing even with the default theme now
<larsu> that's one of the things that patch fixes
<Laney> okay
<Laney> be good to get it on the 3.14 branch
<larsu> I don't think we should
<larsu> it breaks adwaita
<larsu> hm, maybe I should patch that for the ubuntu gnome guys...
<Laney> how's that?
<Laney> how was it fixed in master?
<larsu> oh! mclasen simply changed the default
<larsu> all good then
<Laney> ya
 * larsu doesn't like that, but we've never been stable on style property defaults so meh
<Laney> larsu: was hoping this would fix the software-center progress bars, seems not
<larsu> Laney: oh?
<Laney> search for something and 'install' from that view
<larsu> ah, I looked at the "progress" view
<Laney> inspector doesn't seem to really work there sadly
<larsu> hm, doesn't work for me at all
<larsu> failed to download package files. check your internet
<larsu> erm, I'm typing here, aren't I
<Laney> fun
<larsu> archive down?
<larsu> the fun thing is it gives me 20 dialog boxes to tell me this :(
<Laney> seems unlikely
<Laney> does apt-get update work?
<larsu> Laney: yes (sorry, parallel conversations)
<larsu> works now after restarting u-s-s
<larsu> woah, that progress bar looks ... interesting
<Laney> sure does
<larsu> Laney: oops, I didn't mean to remove that
<larsu> Laney: but I guess you're right, we don't need this branch at all
<larsu> it's unlikely that the default changes again any time soon
<Laney> as you wish :)
 * larsu deletes
 * larsu wishes a brownie
<tkamppeter> Laney, hi
<Laney> hello tkamppeter
<Laney> I saw you subscribed me to some random bugs
<seb128> hehe
<seb128> Laney, is that some cups-filters segfault in glib code?
<Laney> something like that
<larsu> Laney: feel free to reassign to desrt
 * larsu hides
<seb128> tkamppeter, you wrote that those don't happen on utopic, but only vivid has the new cups-filters, so if it's a bug in the new version it's normal it's only in vivid
<tkamppeter> seb128, I am using the newest cups-filters also with Utopic, not only with Vivid.
<seb128> tkamppeter, well, you also don't get the issue on vivid
<seb128> so your config doesn't trigger the bug
<tkamppeter> Laney I have seen that you are uploading glib2 and as I am not sure whether the crashes come from cups-browsed itself or perhaps from glib2 I wanted to show you these two bugs.
<tkamppeter> seb128, Laney, strange thing is also that I am on default config, not getting the crashes and the users who get the crashes are also on default config )at least cups-browsed.conf).
<seb128> tkamppeter, is there anything you need to do from the UI to exercice cups-browsed?
<tkamppeter> seb128, no. cups-browsed is started on boot as a system daemon. It keeps running until system shutdown.
<seb128> tkamppeter, right, but does it do more things at some moment? can you command through dbus or something?
<seb128> tkamppeter, to what event does it react?
<Laney> listens for printers over avahi I think
<tkamppeter> seb128, it actually does something if an IPP network printer is connected and turned on or if a remote shared CUPS queue appears, for example by turning on another Ubuntu/Linux/Mac OS X computer in the network.
<tkamppeter> Laney, exactly this. It listens for printers through Avahi and in addition, it listens to broadcasts of legacy CUPS servers (CUPS 1.5.x or older).
<tkamppeter> Laney, seb128, it does not use D-Bus.
<seb128> ok
<tkamppeter> Laney, seb128, my most recent changes were on auto-shutdown and auto-shutdown is not used by the standard desktop installation of Vivid, this makes it also less probable that my recent changes cause the crash.
<seb128> tkamppeter, look at https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/e6a8f46421486ee16eb01db5bd331f69a3292d0c the issue is not specific to 0.67
<seb128> the number of reports raised with 0.66 not sure why
<seb128> could be more users of vivid or a bug in that version
<tkamppeter> Laney, seb128, another recent change is that Vivid switched to systemd as process 1, but I cannot really imagine that a program which was stable when started by Upstart gets crashy when started by systemd. And Debian uses systemd for longer time and there cups-browsed does not crash.
<seb128> I doubt it's due to that
<didrocks> happyaron: hey, are you around?
<Laney> can any of the reporters reproduce the problem?
<didrocks> happyaron: I have the upstream of libcangjie (who develops as well the cangjie ibus module) who is interested in helping you (and modifying libcangjie if needed) so that fcitx get a better Cangjie support, seems like there are quite some improvments into this since the past year
<didrocks> happyaron: so, he says he doesn't know about the fcitx status of Cangjie, but if you feel that we can get some code factorized and reusing what they do, maybe it worthes a look?
<tkamppeter> seb128, 1.0.66 only modified a function to remove bad characters from strings, improbable that this causes crashes in the event loop. My bet is more that it is somewhere in all this stuff which Tim Waugh did in 1.0.65.
<tkamppeter> Laney, I will ask them and if I find someone I will ask them to do things like turning off legacy CUPS browsing or downdating cups-browsed.
<Laney> tkamppeter: They can probably also try with glib from utopic if you want to isolate that
<tkamppeter> Laney, OK.
<seb128> ogra_, rsalveti, is there a vcs for lxc-android-config? or what's the best way to propose a change to it?
<ogra_> good ole debdiff :)
<rsalveti> yeah, debdiff
<ogra_> note that it is currently blocked in silo 19
<ogra_> (with the new mtp handlin)
<ogra_> +g
<seb128> ogra_, rsalveti, https://launchpadlibrarian.net/201616563/lac.debdiff
<ogra_> seb128, why are you making the upstart job writable ?
<seb128> if you want to add that to your queue for the next upload
<seb128> ogra_, it's the override
<ogra_> also... if you make a writable file, it needs to exist
<seb128> ogra_, because otherwise it can't be written?
<seb128> oh, it does? how does it work for the ssh override?
<ogra_> so you need to ship an empty .override file
<seb128> k
<seb128> ogra_, would an empty .override disable the job though?
<ogra_> not sure, i think not though
<ogra_> as long as there is nothing to override inside ....
<ogra_> but i dont know how upstart in general manages to deal with empty .override, you would have to ask jodh
<seb128> jodh, ^ :-)
<Laney> they have to specify the stanzas to override
<seb128> so empty override is fine?
<Laney> pretty sure
<Laney> you could try it with some job in ~/.config/upstart/
<jodh> seb128: ogra is right - the empty override would be parsed and found to contain no stanzas, so would be a NOP
<ogra_> sudo touch /etc/init/mountall.override ...
<ogra_> will show pretty easily if it works ;)
<ogra_> (if it fails your system is screwed .,.. that should be pretty obvious ;) )
<seb128> jodh, thanks
<seb128> ogra_, new debdiff on the bug then
<ogra_> "the bug" ?
 * ogra_ looks at the 83721452387 bugs in his bugmail 
<seb128> ogra_, the one I pinged about with the first debdiff 15 minutes ago
<ogra_> i see the diff but not a bug number :)
<seb128> oh, the bug was in the changelog :p
<seb128> bug #1437633
<ubot5> bug 1437633 in whoopsie (Ubuntu) "Choosing not to report crashes and errors setting reverts" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1437633
<ogra_> oh, its secretly hidden in that changelog thing :P
<ogra_> who would have guessed :)
<seb128> lol
<ogra_> seb128, hmm, so who writes to that override file ?
<ogra_> is there some dbus service at the system end ?
<seb128> whoopsie-preferences
<seb128> it uses systemctl under systemd to change the status, and writes an override for upstart
<ogra_> ok
<Laney> so light at 6pm
<Laney> amazing!
<attente> Trevinho: hey, are you able to run gnome-terminal under the mir proving server?
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-03-31
<imakesense> Is there a distribution of Ubuntu that has good driver support for older systems? My laptop is 7 years old, and I'm worried that I might mess something up that might be a minor problem with the wireless driver. I'm reinstalling Lubuntu aftering getting the driver to completely disable my wifi connectivity.
<RAOF> imakesense: Driver support is identical across all Ubuntus.
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> bonjour didrocks, Ã§a va ?
<didrocks> pitti: Ã§a va, il fait trÃ¨s beau contrairement Ã  hier, et toi ?
<pitti> didrocks: encore beaucoup du vent ici ..
<pitti> didrocks: je me sense mieux qu'hier, merci !
<Laney> oh hi!
<didrocks> hey Laney, how's life?
<Laney> first climbing again last night \m/
<Laney> so pretty good
<Laney> you?
<didrocks> nice!
<didrocks> nothing fancy, the weather was pretty bad
<didrocks> but I have faith in today :)
<didrocks> Laney: oh btw, didn't want to bother you on first day you came back, but I tried your g-t wrapper with my old weechat desktop
<didrocks> didn't really work :/
<Laney> can you share it?
<Laney> orrrrrrrrrr fix it :)
<didrocks> (can be the desktop file)
<didrocks> Laney: I'm on other things, I only tried in guest, I have pastebinit yesterday, one sec
<didrocks> Laney: ok, faster to reshare: http://paste.ubuntu.com/10710931/
<seb128> hey Laney, wie gehts?
<Laney> yo seb128
<Laney> doing good
<Laney> it's rrrrrrrrrreally windy!
<seb128> same here
<seb128> hate the wind
<Laney> bah
<Laney> why do i still use the pandaboard
<Laney> didrocks: can you see what happens if you run that Exec line manually?
<Laney> perhaps you don't have such a profile
<seb128> Mirv, hey, I would like to backport a qtbase patch to vivid, can I do that (I see there are some silos with it already, but they don't seem ready to land)?
<Mirv> seb128: yes, it's possible (especially if it's desktop/XCB only or such)
<seb128> Mirv, it does, it's https://codereview.qt-project.org/#/c/109570/2//ALL,unified
<Mirv> the silo 018 needs more patches
<seb128> Mirv, fix to have proper themed cursors
<seb128> I debugged that some week ago and suggested a patch upstream
<Mirv> seb128: right, looks good. go ahead.
<seb128> the patch was not right but it was enough to get somebody to fix it properly ;-)
<seb128> Mirv, thanks
<seb128> Mirv, should I just dput in a silo? or how does that work?
<Mirv> seb128: qt is done via dput:s yes
<Mirv> then testing + publish
<seb128> k
<seb128> so I use the gdoc to claim a silo/put a source upload in there
<seb128> and then dput my change?
<Mirv> yes
<seb128> thanks!
<Mirv> I think you can do without the -gles counterpart since it's desktop only. so just qtbase-opensource-src.
<Mirv> no problem.
<seb128> great
 * Laney syncs .0 releases of some stuff
<Laney> here comes the release!
<Laney> oh what
<didrocks> Laney: back from running, yeah, there isn't that profile anymore (but we got it before this g-t update)
<didrocks> or at least, the issue was ignored
<Laney> what issue?
<Laney> unknown profiles?
<didrocks> Laney: yep
<Laney> ah yes
<Laney> it seems it used the default one then
<Laney> gah, why did they make so many things fatal :(
<didrocks> maybe the wrapper should get the same behavior? (so that all backward compatibility is kept in the wrapper)
<didrocks> if you can detect the installed profiles outside of g-t of course
<Laney> sounds nasty
<didrocks> well, less nasty than failing for people upgrading
<Laney> false choice
<Laney> the fix would be to put the old behaviour back in gnome-terminal
<didrocks> do you think it's better? I would prefer to have all the compability layer a the same place
<didrocks> at*
<didrocks> but I guess it's your thing, so what you think is the best will do :)
<Laney> rather than reimplementing the profile finding logic, yes
<Laney> larsu: do you think that gnome-terminal upstream would take a patch to put the old behaviour back?
<Laney> they made it bail out if the specified profile isn't found instead of using the default
<larsu> Laney: sorry, lunch. When was this changed?
 * larsu is still having trouble getting his patches accepted
<Laney> is 3.6..3.14 a valid answer :)
<Laney> ^?
<larsu> haha
<larsu> I'll have a look at git blame
<larsu> maybe there's a bug linked
<larsu> Laney: the check was added in this commit: https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-terminal/commit/?id=f728cf6ce5e3668bbe94e7543b12889e8c936443
<larsu> a long time ago...
<larsu> looks like 3.7.1 or so
<Laney> oh well, I'll just file it
<larsu> Laney: want a patch?
<larsu> in fact, I wonder if opening the default profle would be the correct thing to do..
<Laney> it is if you want to keep compatibility
<larsu> I'm arguing this was a bug before
<larsu> and why would anyone rely on that anyway?
<Laney> The whole point of this exercise is to keep old launchers working
<Laney> Introducing new failure scenarios in commandline option handling is the opposite of that
<Laney> I guess didrocks decided to delete this profile at some point and didn't update the launcher
<didrocks> Laney: looking at the name of the profile, I guess it was rather a default one that we dropped
<Laney> dunno
<Laney> Either way it should be fatal
<didrocks> I would have called it something with "foo" or "bar" :p
<larsu> Laney: fair enough. I think we should still open an error dialog (or an info bar) in that case
<Laney> that'd be possible
<larsu> "no such profile 'foo'. [profile preferences button]"
<didrocks> yeah, sounds like the best plan
<Laney> it does this if you specify a command that doesn't exist
<didrocks> but not dropping the user out of blue
<larsu> didrocks: indeed. Not showing anything is wrong as well
<didrocks> larsu: don't listen to me too much, I'm "through the wind" today :p
<larsu> didrocks: so am I. Figuratively and literally
<larsu> (just walked back from lunch with dholbach and it was very windy)
<larsu> (and feel like shit today)
<didrocks> you all say it's windy, it's clearly not here, I wonder when we'll get it
 * didrocks hugs larsu
<larsu> south of france doesn't get wind
 * larsu hugs didrocks
<didrocks> I don't know about the south of france, but lyon doesn't today for sure
 * Laney looks at a map
<mzanetti> hey, I've just upgraded my VM with unity8 in it
<mzanetti> can't start any apps
<mzanetti> and there's no ~/.cache/upstart/application-click....log files
<mzanetti> probably because of the systemd migration
<mzanetti> any hints on how I cat fix that?
<larsu> mzanetti: got something in the journal? `journalctl`
<mzanetti> kernel messages
<didrocks> hum, the upstart logs should still be there, upstart is used in the user session
<seb128> mzanetti, sudo systemctl enable cgmanager?
<didrocks> seb128: didn't we fixed it?
<mzanetti> seb128, ok, did that... what should that change?
<mzanetti> do I need to restart the session?
<seb128> mzanetti, no, that should work if cgmanager is running
<seb128> didrocks, not for upgraders
<didrocks> that would mean mzanetti didn't upgrade for a very long time :)
<mzanetti> true
<mzanetti> 2 months or so
<seb128> well, could be another issue
<seb128> but likely that
<seb128> mzanetti, does it fix it?
<mzanetti> can't get past the greeter any more
<mzanetti> rebooting the VM
<mzanetti> seb128, that did it, yes
<mzanetti> thanks a lot!
<seb128> mzanetti, yw!
<mzanetti> If I had three wishes: 1) keyboard layout 2) no double greeter 3) GRID_UNIT_PX export depending on the scale factor setting
<mzanetti> :D
<Laney> didrocks: pushed gnome-terminal (no banner yet, for a later date) - please try
<seb128> mzanetti, 1) and 2) are also on our wishlist (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=unity8-desktop)
 * Laney writes a status report & emails it ;-)
<seb128> today is going to be a short meeting
<mzanetti> hmm... does keyboard input work in apps for you guys?
<seb128> seems like most people prefer to enjoy the windy weather than to join the meeting :-(
<seb128> mzanetti, wfm
<Laney> considering whether to bike to the bike meeting in the wind or get the bus :p
<didrocks> Laney: please include an unicode char, I was only able to cover you once on this :p
<Laney> oh man
<Laney> you did?
<didrocks> of course!
<Laney> :D
<seb128> Laney going to be late for the meeting *again*
<seb128> :-)
<didrocks> Laney: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/03/24/%23ubuntu-desktop.html#t15:42
<Laney> your irish roots showing through
<didrocks> Laney: seems you are the only one who got the reference :)
<Laney> ;)
<seb128> it's funny, googling for "â" returns 0 result
<seb128> you are unknown to google!
<Laney> right
<didrocks> Laney: is the addition of dh-exec is wanted?
<Laney> ttyl!
<didrocks> (not urgent)
<Laney> ah no
<Laney> I was using that initially
<Laney> good stuff
<didrocks> I like it as well
<didrocks> Laney: no worry, removing and pushing
<didrocks> go ;)
<Laney> i did it :P
<didrocks> k ;)
<Laney> it is cool to be able to rename files when installing them
<Laney> I forgot why I couldn't use it here
<Laney> perhaps because cdbs
<Laney> bye!
<didrocks> can be, more integrated with dh7 anyway
<didrocks> see you!
<didrocks> Laney: ok, so, the profile is now fallbacked to default and weechat is launched. However, the matching isn't correct (it matches to a g-t window)
<seb128> tedg, hey, could you comment on bug #1436351?
<ubot5> bug 1436351 in indicator-sound (Ubuntu) "icon does not change in silent mode" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1436351
<seb128> tedg, seems it's fixed in vivid, but unsure with what change of that's easy to backport to rtm, also if that's correct design wise to have the same icon for silent mode and muted
<seb128> bug #1367818 seems similar and waiting from input to mpt it seems
<ubot5> bug 1367818 in Ubuntu UX "[indicator] + [dialog] Silent Mode causes no indication of a change in [icon] state." [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1367818
<tedg> seb128, Yeah, we could, but don't you think we'll just pick up vivid here in a few weeks...
<seb128> tedg, can you confirm at least that what it does is what the design suggest and the bug got fixed in vivid?
<tedg> Yes
<tedg> BTW, I was talking to the designers about it in another channel, so let me finish that conversation first :-)
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> lol
<mpt> Whether a phone is in Silent Mode, and whether its volume is zero, are two different things
<mpt> It still plays music and alarms in Silent Mode
<larsu> âsilent modeâ doesn't sound like it should play alarms..
<seb128> yeah, I would say it shouldn't play anything which is not trigger by an user action
 * larsu reads the spec
<seb128> because that's the thing you turn on when at a spectacle or movie
<larsu> hm, interesting concept. Very confusing though
<seb128> larsu, oh?
<larsu> seb128: the name is confusing, and the fact that there's two different concepts of the phone being silent/mute
<seb128> larsu, is there an explanation of what those modes are supposed to be?
<seb128> what "silent mode" is for exactly?
<larsu> yes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Sound#Silent_Mode
<seb128> like should I use silent mode or mute my phone when I'm at a movie?
<seb128> thanks
<larsu> mute
<larsu> but this is exactly what I mean â it's confusing
<larsu> imho, mute ought to be enough
<seb128> well, mute is also muting your morning alarm clock though?
<mpt> Yes, it would be
 * mpt never uses mute
<seb128> so if you at at a movie and have an calender invite to an hangout you forgot to delete your phone is playing sound?
<seb128> it's a bit embarassing :-)
 * seb128 wants his phone to vibrate in such cases
<larsu> seb128: you can't have both this and the morning alarm clock...
<larsu> unless you treat alarms specially
 * didrocks toss in "priority mode"
<larsu> (which I would)
<mpt> seb128, that wouldnât be an alarm, that would be a calendar notification
<larsu> didrocks: ya, this is where the fun starts
<seb128> right
<mpt> bug 1410874
<ubot5> bug 1410874 in indicator-datetime (Ubuntu) "Alarm sounds vs Calendar sounds" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1410874
<larsu> I think android is starting to get it very right
<seb128> by doing what?
<larsu> and it doesn't need two different mute concepts
 * didrocks likes what android does as well
<seb128> what are they doing?
<larsu> seb128: there's just volume up/down. All the way down is mute and vibrate
<larsu> alarms are not affected by mute
<didrocks> seb128: http://fieldguide.gizmodo.com/use-androids-priority-mode-so-notifications-dont-wake-y-1681095117 seems to be a good explanation
<seb128> didrocks, I was reading that
<mpt> larsu, so how quiet does the volume have to be before alarms stop being affected by it?
<larsu> when changing volume, you have choices NONE PRIORITY ALL
<seb128> seems complex/things need to be configured
<larsu> mpt: they are never affected
<didrocks> seb128: not for going to the cinema
<didrocks> you just push volume down
<mpt> You canât change the volume of alarms at all?
<didrocks> "None" -> 2h
<larsu> mpt: there's a separate alarm volume you can change in the settings
<didrocks> and you are done
<mpt> heh
<mpt> Well, thatâs one way of doing it
<didrocks> seb128: you need to configure in some case, like mine is going in priority mode from 22h to 7h
<larsu> mpt: it's the simplest solution I have ever seen that covers all the cases
<didrocks> clearly
<mpt> Oh, so Priority Mode is Androidâs equivalent to Do Not Disturb
<didrocks> you can then really tweak it for particular case
<seb128> didrocks, seems as tedious as the current mode
<seb128> especially if you don't go to bed at regular hours
<seb128> like some days I go to bed at 22:30 some days at 1am
<seb128> so I start the dnd mode manually anyway
<larsu> seb128: I don't even bother with that, just set it manually at night when I set my alarm
<didrocks> seb128: you still have your phone showing the notification, just not buzzing/biping
<seb128> didrocks, right, but I want sound until I go to bed
<didrocks> well, do then what larsu does
<seb128> otherwise the phone is on the other side of the room and I miss calls
<seb128> well, I don't set my alarm at nights
<larsu> yeah, I'm in the same boat as seb128. Going to bed very irregularly
<larsu> and need notifications until I do
<didrocks> "need"
<larsu> s/need/want
<seb128> want
<didrocks> ;)
<didrocks> I don't care if I don't have notifications biping/buzzing, i'm just watching my phone before going to bed to see I didn't miss anything
<larsu> and that's fine
<didrocks> and I have a white list of people that are still ringing, even in priority mode
<seb128> yeah, everybody has different use
<didrocks> right, and I think what they have cover those
<didrocks> contrary to ours
<seb128> I think the google one is still tedious
<larsu> right, my real gripe here was with mpt's two different concepts that are named the same
<seb128> not discussing it's better than we do (ours is basic)
<didrocks> ours don't cover those cases
<larsu> "silent mode" and "mute" â couldn't tell you which is which
<seb128> right
<seb128> our is less good
<seb128> but I don't find the google one great either
<seb128> or at least it's still tedious
<didrocks> seb128: my bet is that I think most of people just use the "None" -> X hours
<seb128> yeah, could be
<didrocks> I wouldn't do that every evening though
<larsu> X hours is *perfect* for going to the movies or some event
<didrocks> seems like larsu can:)
<larsu> I always forget to reenable sound after such a thing
<didrocks> same for me
<seb128> same here
<mpt> larsu, per spec, the word âMuteâ only ever appears on the PC, while âSilent Modeâ only ever appears on the phone
<larsu> didrocks: I have a habit of setting an alarm every evening anyway
<didrocks> larsu: crazy dude! :)
<seb128> well, you sort of do if you go to bed to changing hours and want to adjust your wake up time in consequence
<mpt> larsu, I donât know how Iâm going to conv3rgeNCE!!!1 them yet, but itâs not the case that there are two similarly-named things in the UI on any device :-)
<larsu> mpt: oh, I was reading the section *above* "Phone", which mentions "Mute (not to be confused with Silent Mode)"
<larsu> mute on the PC is kind of silly anyway
 * larsu would be fine if we dropped it
<larsu> but then, many laptops have hardware mute keys
<mpt> Yeah, it exists half as a bit of padding to stop the volume slider from being first menu item
<larsu> which behave differently from the way the spec describes
<larsu> mpt: haha, cool
<mpt> larsu, so fix bug 552920 and Iâll remove it ;-)
<ubot5> bug 552920 in unity (Ubuntu) "Moving diagonally from narrow menu title often opens adjacent menu" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/552920
<larsu> mpt: fixing it in gtk won't be enough, because unity's panel doesn't use gtk's menu bar (it pops open the menus itself)
<larsu> mpt: also, we're moving away from traditional menus and unity7
<mpt> Thatâs why itâs also open on Unity, presumably
<larsu> I guess?!
<larsu> doesn't make sense (and we don't have the time) to put effort into that
<mpt> Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯
<larsu> and I'm pretty sure unity8 won't have menus for indicators ;)
<larsu> mpt: we could go all gnome shell and have one system menu :P
 * larsu know you love that
<mpt> ONE GIANT SCROLLING MENU
<mpt> HORIZONTALLY SCROLLING
<larsu> yes please!
<larsu> scrolling is so much fun
<larsu> we could have some cool scrollbars even
 * larsu has the feeling that was one troll too manyâ¦
<mpt> Itâll be like Netscape 3 for Unix, where each menu had its own scrollbar
<desrt> morning peeps
<didrocks> morning desrt!
<desrt> happy monday
<didrocks> happy *your* monday :)
<desrt> why, thank you :)
<didrocks> larsu: seb128: did you notice a slower boot since systemd -5ubuntu1?
<desrt> oh.  wait.
<desrt> it's tuesday!
<desrt> somehow i had it in my head that it's monday, while at the same time knowing that today is meeting day
<desrt> that's interesting
<seb128> didrocks, I didn't pay attention much, my boot has been slower for some weeks but I didn't sit down to investigate yet
<desrt> so, happy tuesday :)
<seb128> desrt, hey, happy tuesday ;-)
<didrocks> desrt: hence the "your", I'm not willing to disturb you with such details :p
<desrt> didrocks: all makes sense now.  thanks for the polite approach :)
<didrocks> seb128: autopkgtests failing on -5ubuntu1 FTW btw \o/
<didrocks> ;)
<larsu> didrocks: nope
<seb128> didrocks, what's the issue?
<seb128> didrocks, just on performance regression?
<larsu> hi desrt!
<didrocks> fsck is running twice, plymouth starts later
<seb128> do we have stable metrics for those?
<desrt> hi seb, larsu :)
<didrocks> (and I noticed as I'm debugging some of my autopkgtests expecting to kill plymouth failing)
<didrocks> so, more a side-effect actually, but I clearly have a 30s slower boot with -5ubuntu1 on autopkgtests
<didrocks> (goind from 2s to 32s)
<didrocks> going*
<seb128> didrocks, how come it migrated to release if autopkgtests are failing btw?
<didrocks> not sure, maybe it's been overriden?
<didrocks> we have one failing test on i386 for quite some time (only on the infra)
<didrocks> but this failure is on both amd64 and i386
<seb128> pitti, ^ did you override failing systemd tests?
<didrocks> seb128: pitti warned me about the failing test, so I guess he is already aware
<seb128> k
<didrocks> (and quite busy AFAIK)
<seb128> didrocks, I'm going to do a bootchart next time I reboot
<didrocks> seb128: comparing with -4ubuntu10 would be interesting
<didrocks> but anyway, we need to find out why this happens
 * didrocks logs at his system logs now
<pitti> seb128: I think adam did
<seb128> k
<Sweet5hark1> seb128: desktop meeting in 1/2 an hour? I will be around.
<seb128> Sweet5hark1, yes
<desrt> i will also be around!
<seb128> attente, desrt, didrocks, Laney?, larsu, qengho, Sweet5hark1, tkamppeter, hey, it's meeting time :-)
<qengho> Hey hey
<didrocks> hey!
<seb128> let's get started
<seb128> attente, hey
<larsu> hey!
<attente> seb128: hey, not much from me
<attente> debugging for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-control-center/+bug/1431811
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1431811 in unity-control-center (Ubuntu) "unity-control-center crashed with SIGSEGV in FcitxConfigFree()" [High,Confirmed]
<attente> gnome-terminal stopped working under mir proving server, it's blocking progress on getting ibus working under mir
<seb128> did we get any mir update recently?
<seb128> or is that trunk?
<seb128> did you talk to the mir team about it?
<attente> i'm running from trunk
<attente> looking at it seems to be a dbus issue of some sort
<seb128> hum, k
<seb128> bisect time? ;-)
<seb128> I commented on the mr for the bug you just mentioned, please split the region panel warning fixes in another changeset
<attente> seb128: sure
<seb128> sorry for not noticing that before, seems like u-c-c mps don't always reach me or Laney
<seb128> don't hesitate IRC pinging for those :-)
<seb128> attente, thanks
<attente> seb128: sorry, i should ping it next time
<seb128> no worry, it's not that long either :-)
<seb128> ups, forgot something
<seb128> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Mar 31 15:34:06 2015 UTC.  The chair is seb128. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<seb128> bah, forgot we had new techs nowadays :p
<seb128> #topic attente
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: attente
<attente> lol
<seb128> see http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/03/31/%23ubuntu-desktop.html log for those reading minutes ;-)
<seb128> #topic desrt
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: desrt
<seb128> desrt, hey
<desrt> hey.  what's up?
<desrt> not a lot to report this week in terms of bullet points, but i've been working on a big one:
<desrt> while i have the file monitor code fresh in my brain, i'm trying to slay the "periodic polling on missing files" thing
<desrt> i made some pretty good progress on that over the weekend but it's still going to be a substantial slog
<desrt> not much else to report
<seb128> desrt, did any of the backtrace/e.u.c reports I pinged you about looked concerning or as potential glib issues to you?
<seb128> desrt, I'm asking because several of those component didn't change since previous cycle and the reports started this cycle and are in glib code
<desrt> i took some time looking at those.  one of them seemed semi-legitimate and i made a patch to downgrade the assert to a warning (which i forgot to commit until just now, thanks for the reminder)
<desrt> the other two just looked like gvariant refcounting issues
<seb128> thanks
<desrt> if you can get me more information about those (cores, etc) i'd be happy to look
<desrt> but otherwise it's pretty impossible :/
<seb128> k, fair enough
<seb128> desrt, thanks
<seb128> #topic didrocks
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: didrocks
<seb128> didrocks, hey
<didrocks> hey!
<didrocks> Ubuntu Make:
<didrocks> - spent some time triaging bug reports and testing various user's cases.
<didrocks> Systemd:
<didrocks> - did some bug triaging/investigation until Martin was back
<didrocks> - backported some upstream systemd patches for beta
<didrocks> - fixed the tmp.mount erratic behavior
<didrocks> - fix an hanging issue due to the newest way of detecting mount point for machine-commit-id and sysfs
<didrocks> - handling some feedbacks/emails/bug reports due to upstart-sysv change (third parties building images without using ubuntu-minimal, listing packages manually with *aptitude*)â¦
<didrocks> Misc:
<didrocks> - gave a talk at jdll during the week-end, performed there multiple installatiosn
<didrocks> - check Laney's gnome-terminal wrapper (but seems some more work is needed for full backward compatbility, even if it's already a great enhancement!)
<didrocks> - snappy doc reading + experimentations
<didrocks> .
<seb128> no nice utf8 char this week? ;-)
<larsu> Â·
<didrocks> seb128: I hope Laney sent you one this time :)
<Sweet5hark1> didrocks: oh, playing with snappy too?
<larsu> seb128: '.' is utf8, too
<didrocks> Sweet5hark1: yeah (see last week report, also proposed some patches already ;))
<seb128> larsu, lol, good point ;-)
<seb128> didrocks, thanks
<Sweet5hark1> larsu: utf-8 even has multiple different . all looking alike being utf-8
<didrocks> yw!
<seb128> Laney seems not back yet, so let's move him to the end and see if he joins us, I've his summary otherwise
<seb128> #topic larsu
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: larsu
<seb128> larsu, hey
<larsu> hi!
<larsu> not been very productive this last week (not feeling to well)
<larsu> finished up the thin progress bar thing
<larsu> thanks Laney for backporting the patch
<larsu> mucked around with a couple of icon problems (zooming in nautilus, alt-tab and launcher in unity)
<larsu> in short: humanity is doing it wrong
<larsu> I started fixing that, but postponed to next cycle because it turned out to be a huge diff
<larsu> and just hacked it a bit by setting MaxSize on most scalable folders
<larsu> which is working nicely
<larsu> I also investigated what chpe is doing to my terminal patches
<larsu> because he's not communicating, just applying patches randomly and not marking them as committed
<larsu> and putting blocker and depends bugs up
<larsu> frustrating...
<larsu> also the usual MR and bug stuff
<seb128> :-/
<larsu> Ã
<seb128> larsu, danke
<Laney> didrocks: separate issue, larsu was working on that stuff
<Laney> HI!
<seb128> hey Laney
<seb128> Laney, ready if it's your turn?
<Laney> one second
<larsu> over
<attente> terminator for default...
<Laney> <<< EOF
<Laney> my laptop failed to resume (systemd ...) so I have to get re-stated
<didrocks> attente: don't even try :p
<seb128> Laney, k, let's do qengho first then
<attente> :P
<seb128> #topic qengho
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: qengho
<seb128> qengho, hey
<qengho> - Done: Packaged Chromium as Snap. Verdict: Won't work for now. Needs setuid support.
<qengho> - In-progress: Getting Chromium updated in precise again.
<qengho> EOF
<Laney> ok!
<seb128> qengho, thanks
<seb128> qengho, did you give some feedback back to the snap team about chromium as snap?
<qengho> I ran it thorough jdstrand to consider implications first.
<seb128> k
<seb128> would be nice to have that feedback on some mailing list maybe
<seb128> -devel?
<qengho> Will do.
<seb128> could be useful to others
<seb128> qengho, thanks
<seb128> #topic Laney
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Laney
<seb128> Laney, hey
<Laney> hi thar
<Laney> â¢ Short week, on holidays until Friday
<Laney> â¢ Updates: gtk glib glib-networking librsvg
<Laney> â¢ Fix gnome-terminal wrapper to cope with non existing profiles, fwd upstream
<Laney> â¢ Discussions about upload rights to CI train PPAs
<Laney> â¢ Some queue reviews since we're now in freeze
<Laney> â£
<larsu> â¥
<larsu> of course compose sequence for a heart is <3
<seb128> thanks Laney
<seb128> #topic Sweet5hark1
<seb128> Sweet5hark1, hey
<Sweet5hark1> + libreoffice_4.4.1-0ubuntu2 for vivid-proposed: FFe for breeze icons
<Sweet5hark1> + merged Steves l10n fix, added README about generated ./debian
<Sweet5hark1> + updated PPA to libreoffice_4.4.2_rc2-1 with new upstream rc
<Sweet5hark1> + got myself a booting snappy VM and looked around a bit for porting LibreOffice (aka build-dep list walking)
<Sweet5hark1> + started some GSOC student application review
<Sweet5hark1> + continued refactoring work upstream
<Sweet5hark1> EOF
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Sweet5hark1
<Sweet5hark1> proudly plain ASCII only today!
<seb128> Sweet5hark1, same for you, snappy feedback shared would be nice I guess
<seb128> didrocks, ^ that applies to you as well
<Sweet5hark1> seb128: sure, sure. still collecting a list of gos and no-gos.
<seb128> Sweet5hark1, thanks
<didrocks> seb128: well, I'm sending my feedback as upstream patches for now
<seb128> #topic tkamppeter
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: tkamppeter
<didrocks> (which got merged)
<seb128> didrocks, k, I was speaking more about faq or useful tips, dunno if we have a wiki or something, so everybody doesn't hit the same issue when looking at their first package
<seb128> tkamppeter, there?
<seb128> seems not
<seb128> he sent me an email after the start of the meeting though, weird
<seb128> anyway, his summary
<seb128> - cups-filters: Investigations on cups-browsed crash
<seb128> - Organizational stuff for OpenPrinting Summit and Desktop Sprint
<seb128> - Bugs.
<Laney> haha
<seb128> thanks tkamppeter ;-)
<seb128> #topic seb128
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: seb128
<seb128> â¢ unity-settings-daemon, wrap labels from the mount helper dialog
<seb128> â¢ looked a bit at getting gtk2/3 out of the phone image
<seb128> â¢ looked at whoopsie configuration not working correctly on touch
<seb128> â¢ lot of bugs reviews (launchpad, e.u.c) before vivid
<seb128> â¢ backported some gedit bugfixes to vivid
<seb128> â¢ ubuntu-themes landing for Laney&larsu
<seb128> â¢ changes to unity&nautilus for nautilus .desktop rename
<seb128> â¢ tested/sponsored humanity-icon-theme fix from Lars for pixelized icons in unity switchter
<seb128> â¢ tested vivid beta iso of desktop and desktop-next
<seb128> â¢ backported qt5 fix for incorrectly themed cursor
<seb128> â¢ u-s-s
<seb128> â cleaned up the merges list
<seb128> â reviewed change to make disk computation correct on arale
<seb128> ...
<seb128> #topic other topics?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: other topics?
<seb128> did I forget anyone? any other topic?
<didrocks> seb128: did you send the MP for the whoopsie configuration after our discussion? I didn't see the MP?
<Laney> sooooooooo do we have an xorg person atm? :)
<seb128> Laney, you?
<FJKong> hey seb128
 * Laney appears to have no two finger scrolling
<seb128> oh, ups
<Laney> debug it please seb128!
<seb128> #topic FJKong
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: FJKong
<Laney> ha
<seb128> FJKong, sorry, forgot you and happyaron
<seb128> your turn
<FJKong> not much but mine is
<FJKong> some topic on CCN meeting:
<FJKong> some new feature for next release sogou IM, Wubi and shuangpin input engine.
<FJKong> animation skin support.
<FJKong> KV database test for pinyin converting.
<FJKong> sponsor for localization with aron.
<FJKong> attend ubuntu scope training for University at Changsha.
<FJKong> EOF<
<happyaron> I'm here
<FJKong> ha
<seb128> FJKong, thanks
<seb128> #topic happyaron
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: happyaron
<seb128> happyaron, hey
<happyaron> atteded CCN meeting with FJKong
<happyaron> bug/task updates for Ubuntu Kylin beta2
<happyaron> Sogou meetings for phone
<happyaron> fcitx default (zh_*) for Kubuntu and other flavors
<happyaron> over
<didrocks> happyaron: did you see my ping yesterday about the cangjie ibus module maintainer happy to give a hand if needed to get his lib shared with fcitx (better HK support, more up to date data apparently)?
<attente> happyaron: hey, are you going to do a new release of fcitx-qimpanel?
<happyaron> didrocks: yes, and ypwong (a16g) is maintaining libcangjie for Debian/Ubuntu, I want to talk to him to follow up with upstream together, but he's on leave today
<happyaron> attente: yes
<didrocks> happyaron: good! upstream lives 10 minutes from me, so if you need anythingâ¦ ;)
<seb128> happyaron, did you hear about any work to make sogou work out of the box?
<happyaron> I just started to handle more parts in the cooperation with NUDT, so I spent some time on doing glue communications
<seb128> happyaron, I've been asked about that, which is new to me if true :-)
<happyaron> seb128: yes, and I'll write email about the result from CCN meeting
<seb128> happyaron, is that targetted for vivid?!
<happyaron> nope
<seb128> k, good
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> happyaron, can give me the zest of what is wanted?
<seb128> would that be in ubiquity like for codecs?
<happyaron> briefly, 1) inclusion in archive (restricted or partner, depends) 2) suggestion on ubiquity, like the mp3 stuff 3) possibly do some locale/timesome-specific notifications/suggestions, that recommend the user to install it when restricted/partner is enabled.
<seb128> happyaron, thanks
<seb128> #topic other topics?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: other topics?
<seb128> k, I don't have the summary from robert_ancell or TheMuso
<happyaron> and for more, there are some thing about pingbacks or popcon-like stuff, giving a checkbox at installation time and in privacy settings, and possibly have the checkbox checked when certain requirements is satisfied
<didrocks> seb128: I guess you missed my question for you on whoopsie/touch MP
<happyaron> (i.e. the preset settings, and users are able to opt-out/in at any time)
<seb128> didrocks, I added https://launchpadlibrarian.net/201618635/lac.debdiff to bug #1437633 and Laney suggested a rtm version on https://launchpadlibrarian.net/201678101/lxc-android-config_0.208rtm10.debdiff
<ubot5> bug 1437633 in lxc-android-config (Ubuntu) "Choosing not to report crashes and errors setting reverts" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1437633
<seb128> didrocks, no, didn't :-)
<didrocks> seb128: hum, empty .override?
<didrocks> seb128: so, it's disabled by default?
<Laney> no
<Laney> empty override means no override
<seb128> didrocks, no, the override is doing nothing
<didrocks> it is if you ship an empty .override file
<Laney> no
<didrocks> Laney: no
<Laney> NO!
<didrocks> still no :p
<Laney> the maintainer said so yesterday
<didrocks> hum
<seb128> didrocks, we discussed it yesterday, jodh confirmed it does nothing
<seb128> on this channel
<didrocks> interesting, that either changed or all the tests that we did until a couple of months were wrong
<seb128> but I didn't test to be honest
<didrocks> that's basically how we disable upstart jobs
<didrocks> ship an empty .override
<Laney> you probably put "manual" in an override file
<seb128> are you sure you didn't have a "manual" line in those?
<didrocks> Laney: no, completely empty in the tests
<seb128> hum :-/
<seb128> k, need testing then
<didrocks> yeah
<didrocks> and in that case, we would have some stuff to patch either way
<didrocks> (in some postinst script)
<seb128> didrocks, thanks for pointing it out
<seb128> didrocks, for the record, http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/03/30/%23ubuntu-desktop.html#t16:41
<seb128> "jodh	seb128: ogra is right - the empty override would be parsed and found to contain no stanzas, so would be a NOP"
<didrocks> seems the cookbook agrees with this
<didrocks> I wonder why we did it all wrong in multiple places
<seb128> :-/
<didrocks> I guess I know what I need to do tomorrow then :p
<seb128> maybe there is a bug in upstart
<didrocks> yeah
<seb128> and it's not acting as it should?
<Laney> woah
<didrocks> that or the tests were wrong
<Laney> i just tested, it does indeed disable it
<seb128> woah sounds like Laney tested and confirmed it's buggy :p
<didrocks> Laney: ahah, see!
<seb128> hehe
<Laney> do this: touch ~/.config/upstart/unity7.conf
<Laney> and restart session
<seb128> ok, let's wrap the meeting and continue that discussion
<didrocks> THIS MEANS: I can type and test \o/
<didrocks> not that crazy
<didrocks> yeah ;)
<seb128> thanks everyone
<didrocks> thanks
<seb128> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Issues with GTK 3.14? Check here: http://pad.ubuntu.com/gtk-update-v
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Mar 31 16:16:11 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2015/ubuntu-desktop.2015-03-31-15.34.moin.txt
<Laney> so srsly though
<Laney> tap to click is broken
<Laney> who to tell :(
<seb128> Laney, upstream? #ubuntu-x? email mlankhosrt? ;-)
<Laney> should try an old kernel I guess
<Laney> hrhr
<seb128> Laney, joke aside we don't have anyone dedicated to xorg, robert_ancell is doing xmir and might know about things, but I doubt he knows much about input and synaptic
<seb128> maybe tjaalton can help you?
<seb128> but yeah, trying to downgrade kernel and drivers would be a first step I guess
<didrocks> seb128: ok, you got the discussion after I left it seems
<didrocks> seriously, we need to get the final word on this, I'll retest tomorrow
<didrocks> as either way, there is some work involved
<seb128> jodh, ^ what's going on there? empty override disable jobs it seems?
<seb128> didrocks, right
<didrocks> jodh: that was what we did in the upstart -> systemd transition, and I'm pretty sure the tests showed that (seems like Laney did a quick test and confirms)
<didrocks> and we have multiple postinst doing this
<popey> Anyone reported terrible network performance on vivid recently?
<didrocks> popey: nothing remarkable at least here
<popey> Today my laptop is all over the place, sometimes 5Mb/s, sometimes 100Mb/s
<ogra_> didrocks, what Laney confirmed above is an empty new user job, not an override file
<popey> it's fine between machines on my lan, but running speedtest I get wild results
<Laney> ogra_: different filename?
<popey> other machines on my network are fine, it's only my laptop
<ogra_> Laney, right ... try with .override
<Laney> ok, phew!
<didrocks> ogra_: works the same way for upstart session?
<ogra_> didrocks, no idea ...
<Laney> oh yeah this is good now
<Laney> allllllll good
<ogra_> all i know is that you need the empty file if you want to make it writable :)
<didrocks> good thing we still have an upstart boot option :)
<ogra_> we cant bind mountnon existing files ;)
<ogra_> (add appropriate spacing above)
<didrocks> ogra_: which was why I was tracking that patch, based on my experience that empty .overrides did this
<ogra_> afaik only if you add manual to the
<ogra_> m
<didrocks> let's confirm on upstart system, and then fix postinst
<didrocks> ogra_: weird that we would have done that and tested happily a bunch of times for the transition
<ogra_> well, i never validated what i think :)
<ogra_> and i never had to ship an empty upstart file
<didrocks> update-rc.d adds the "disable" content
<didrocks> oh, I know why our .postinst can workâ¦
<ogra_> but that just a .override acts as no-op is something that keybuk already told me many years ago
<didrocks> we ship the empty .override
<didrocks> it indicates for us "disable"
<didrocks> and then, the postinst recall update-rc.d disableâ¦
<ogra_> no, it indicates that it overrides something
<didrocks> which would add "manual"
<ogra_> you can just put a different "start on fo" in there
<didrocks> ogra_: not in the systemd postinst logic
<didrocks> ogra_: I'm talking about how we approached it :)
<didrocks> but then, the second call to update-rc.d "fixed" it
<didrocks> and that's how we maybe never saw our supposition was wrong
<ogra_> ah
<didrocks> ok, anyway, testing that first thing tomorrow, if so, then, going over our postinsts to fix it
<jodh> didrocks: where are these empty .override files being created?
<didrocks> jodh: preinst, postinst, ship by defaults in various packages
<jodh> didrocks: what directory are they being created in
<didrocks> jodh: /etc/init/
<jodh> didrocks: I'll test locally but that should not disable the job. Try creating a ~/.config/upstart/foo.{conf,override} pair and seeing the behaviour.
<didrocks> jodh: let me confirm tomorrow with rebooting with init as upstart. I've an idea why we didn't detect our supposition was wrong (as we rerun invoke-rc.d disable if we detected a .override file)
<didrocks> so that call is marking "manual", and the job is really disable
<didrocks> still not the right logic, so better to fix it
<didrocks> jodh: will keep you posted if I notice anything anyway!
<didrocks> see you tomorrow guys :)
<Laney> bye!
<Laney> bleh
<Laney> now it works after restarting
<seb128> ?
<Laney> trackpad
<seb128> Trevinho, could you look at bug #1436297?
<ubot5> bug 1436297 in unity (Ubuntu) "Nautilus launcher icon matching issue (seems due to desktop rename)" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1436297
<seb128> Laney, there is a bug that if you change the trackpad settings in g-c-c/u-c-c they seem to stop working until session restart
<seb128> well at least willcooke had that in Brussels and something similar was going on on my laptop when I tried
<Laney> ah maybe that
<Laney> pitti: just got a proper shutdown, after manually installing that dbus
<Laney> looks like the fix is good :-)
 * Laney â pub quiz
<Laney> ttyl!
<mdeslaur> Trevinho: I've got a lock screen issue for you :)
<mdeslaur> Trevinho: bug 1438870
<ubot5> bug 1438870 in unity (Ubuntu) "Lock screen doesn't emit ActiveChanged signal" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1438870
<rcarlos> hello
<rcarlos> has anyone skipped tu
<rcarlos> hello
<rcarlos> has anyone skipped unity8 intro tutorial on desktop next ?
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-04-01
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> Laney: ooh!
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> bonjour didrocks, comment Ã§a va ?
<didrocks> pitti: Ã§a va, et toi ?
<pitti> didrocks: Ã§a va bien, merci !
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> hey didrocks & pitti
<didrocks> hey seb128
<pitti> didrocks: seems the dbus fix works quite well
<pitti> bonjour seb128 !
<pitti> didrocks: do you have time to look at the nfs-utils FTBFS?
<didrocks> pitti: dbus fix -> oh nice!
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, it's on my list, I have also the empty overrides to fix
<didrocks> pitti: and I have a systemd binary without upstream patches ready to get tested under adb
<didrocks> adt*
<pitti> didrocks: I went through the systemd-stable patches last night; the most likely one might be http://cgit.freedesktop.org/systemd/systemd/commit/?id=6e392c9c45
<pitti> but I didn't start a bisect yet
<didrocks> pitti: I have the 2 journald content btw:
<didrocks> success: http://paste.ubuntu.com/10712382/
<pitti> didrocks: so for some reason fsck gets started twice?
<didrocks> failing: http://paste.ubuntu.com/10712359/
<didrocks> pitti: no, it's not actually (I misread), it's just the order is different
<didrocks> Mar 31 18:20:37 autopkgtest systemd[1]: Starting Show Plymouth Boot Screen...
<didrocks> (once fsck is done)
<didrocks> in the failing case
<didrocks> Mar 31 18:30:52 autopkgtest systemd[1]: Starting Show Plymouth Boot Screen...
<didrocks> (during fsck)
<didrocks> in the success one
<didrocks> it's like with -5ubuntu1 root fsck was blocking everything
<didrocks> pitti: I can fix easily the nfs-utils one (I wonder why I didn't get a FTBFS email though, my filters are normally fine)
<didrocks> pitti: it's a debdiff reapply on a "clean" after build dpkg-source -x issue
<didrocks> pitti: but as I noticed an issue with .override and upstart, I needed to reupload that one (with some others) anyway
<didrocks> pitti: nfs-utils builds fine, and adjustements done, pushing now
<pitti> didrocks: cheers!
<didrocks> pitti: is it possible to not have adt-run using /tmp at home? I'm having no space left as /tmp is tmpfs (first time yesterday, not sure why the size exploded to more than 3Gâ¦ something smells wrong here)
<didrocks> s/home/all/
<pitti> didrocks: "at home"? you mean for creating temp files? Setting $TMPDIR ought to work
<didrocks> "at all" ^
<didrocks> ok :)
<pitti> didrocks: but that does smell weird, right; is the overlay so big, or some other file?
<didrocks> pitti: well, it wasn't yesterday afternoonâ¦
<didrocks> it's installing lightdm and such
<didrocks> but I don't think it should explod to 3Gâ¦
<pitti> didrocks: certainly not
<pitti> maybe 1G (some test cases have really heavy dependencies)
<pitti> but I never really checked
<pitti> I usually have 7G free in /tmp/
<didrocks> yeah I only allocated 2G
<didrocks> just weird this started yesterday eveningâ¦
<didrocks> anyway, I'm unblocked for now
<didrocks> pitti: so, -5ubuntu1, reverting upstream v219 stable branch patches -> works
<pitti> didrocks: out for ~30 mins for some errands
<didrocks> pitti: doing a rebuild only with the commit you pointed now
<didrocks> see you!
 * pitti hugs didrocks
 * didrocks hugs pitti back
<Laney> happy don't believe anything you read on the internet day
<seb128> hey Laney
<didrocks> Laney: happy don't ready the Internet today
<Laney> :)
<Laney> what's up?
<Laney> ogra_: can you help guide the fix for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-rtm/+source/lxc-android-config/+bug/1437633 through?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1437633 in lxc-android-config (Ubuntu) "Choosing not to report crashes and errors setting reverts" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<Laney> don't know how RTM works
<didrocks> Laney: doing override changes!
<didrocks> I need to fix whoopse-preferences still, but finishing some other things on systemd first
<didrocks> yourself?
<ogra_> Laney, oh, thats for RTM ... i didnt notice ... for vivid lxc-android-config is currently blocked in silo 19
<Laney> needs fixing in both
<Laney> differently
<ogra_> Laney, i'll try to land it in RTM then
<Laney> thx
<ogra_> vivid needs to wait
<Laney> can you actually QA changes to this file without uploading?
<ogra_> in a silo ...
<Laney> i thought it had to be installed at image time
<ogra_> sadly thats not how silos are tested today ...
 * ogra_ still waits for per-silo images ...
<Laney> yes indeed
<happyaron> Laney: about bug #1439006, he asked to add Japanese when we are doing that for zh_*, but he sent the email to ubuntu-desktop@ quite late, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2015-April/004650.html
<Laney> that's what I'm saying
<ubot5> bug 1439006 in language-selector (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Install Fcitx for Japanese users" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1439006
<Laney> happyaron: I know
<happyaron> ok
<happyaron> just in case.
<ogra_> Laney, will hopefully happen one day ... until thenn QA installs the PPA packages and tests that ...
<Laney> I hope they go readonly again after that
<Laney> ^o)
<didrocks> pitti: this commit isn't the one :(
<pitti> didrocks: ok; it just looked like the most plausible one, I didn't run any actual tests with it; sorry
<didrocks> no worry
<didrocks> I'm afaid a real bisect will be needed then
<pitti> Laney: shutdown is working reliably for you now?
<pitti> didrocks: you can probably cut out a lot of the commits (man page fixes, string updates, etc.)
<Laney> pitti: yes indeed; I just duped the bug
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, would have been cool to have the v219 tag in the stable branch though
<pitti> didrocks: indeed -- a88a..
<didrocks> pitti: thanks!
<didrocks> pitti: any special trick you are using to generate the huge diff?
<pitti> didrocks: "git diff a88a.."
<didrocks> ok, simply that :)
<pitti> didrocks: I didn't want to import a gazillion tiny patches, easier to get and maintain like that
<didrocks> pitti: yeah
<didrocks> pitti: hum, did you really generate it like that? Some upstream patches like the fsck one aren't in your v219-stable.patch
<pitti> didrocks: your fsckd patches aren't in v219-stable
<didrocks> pitti: ah, sorry, forget about me
<didrocks> yeah, wrong branch
<pitti> they are also separate in debian/patches
<pitti> ah :)
<ogra_> seb128, https://plus.google.com/+OliverGrawert/posts/eK5X7voSxRr do we have a bug open for the graph ?
<seb128> ogra_, that url is about theming and shows dekko?
<ogra_> err
<ogra_> sorry
<ogra_> wrong paste
<seb128> no worry :-)
<ogra_> (and thats not dekko, look closer ;) )
<seb128> I guess you are going to show me a charge graph with pits?
<seb128> oh, right ;-)
<ogra_> https://plus.google.com/+OliverGrawert/posts/6k3ZhoHb5mp
<ogra_> not pits ... just a gap at the start i always see
<ogra_> looks like the first value is not properly initialized
<seb128> oh, yeah, not reported I guess, but I saw it as well
 * ogra_ will report then
<seb128> can you open a bug on u-s-s?
<seb128> danke
<ogra_> yep :)
<seb128> I'm going to have a look
<Laney> hmm
<Laney> network isn't coming up in my lxc container
<Laney> ifup eth0 gets it to come up though
<Laney> as does systemctl start ifup@eth0
<Laney> bleg
<Laney> how does this sys-subsystem-net-devices-%i BindsTo work?
<Laney> udev I guess
<davmor2> seb128: can you try something on vivid desktop, create a file, from nautilus put it into the trash, then from the bin right click and select empty the bin.  Does it open a second nautilus window for you?
<seb128> davmor2, I can confirm, another variant from bug #1436297
<ubot5> bug 1436297 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "Nautilus launcher icon matching issue (seems due to desktop rename)" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1436297
<davmor2> seb128: cool I was just checking if it was fixed and I didn't have it yet :)
<ogra_> seb128, bug 1439122 (sorry, took a bit)
<ubot5> bug 1439122 in ubuntu-system-settings (Ubuntu) "battery graph seems not properly initialized" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1439122
<seb128> ogra_, danke
<Trevinho> attente: about "are you able to run gnome-terminal under the mir proving server?": Yes, I am, but I've to use older versions (trusty one) of gnome-terminal as new ones rely on dbus which wasn't working here
<attente> Trevinho: ah, ok. do you happen to know what changed?
<Trevinho> attente: I think that they're using gApplication now, so the singleton doesn't work
<Trevinho> attente: but I've been using the older version happly
<Trevinho> attente: I think the problem was a missing dbus session daemon on mir, but hat might be fixable...
<Trevinho> I just didn't spend time on that
<attente> Trevinho: i thought it was enough to have the DBUS_SESSION_ADDRESS set properly but for some reason it wasn't
<Trevinho> seb128: thanks for looking at 1436297, I was off a few days :)
<Trevinho> yeah, I had it set, but it's not enough
<seb128> Trevinho, yw! there are still some issues, does bamf special case nautilus as well?
<Trevinho> seb128: mhmh, I think there's something about the transfer window, but I don't recall if that was removed...
 * Trevinho checks
<Trevinho> seb128: mh, no I don't see that anymore
<seb128> Trevinho, in fact the remaining issue might be a nautilus one
<seb128> Trevinho, let it to me, I might be you back again later
<Trevinho> ok
<seb128> didrocks, https://errors.ubuntu.com/oops/1775190c-d7ea-11e4-be13-fa163e78b027
<seb128> was that supposed to be fixed?
<seb128>  File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/oneconf/hosts.py", line 69, in __init__
<seb128>     with open('/var/lib/dbus/machine-id') as fp:
<seb128> FileNotFoundError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/var/lib/dbus/machine-id'
<seb128>  
<seb128> didrocks, ignore that, the installs are 0 day but the installation media is outdated
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, it's fixed ideally
<didrocks> seb128: for the other crash, I wonder if I shouldn't just add a workaround
<seb128> didrocks, you mean https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/6ecdec0e7e98a62311268646d93e2a11b734390a ?
<seb128> the bt is not really useful right? it's just sign of an issue in the other side?
<didrocks> seb128: no, more on that one: https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/44254dfe1ed3a5acdec9c4e4172b009e905dcd89
<didrocks> seb128: like, maybe we can just have the daemon exit 1
<didrocks> like "giving up"
<didrocks> or just having an empty package list
<didrocks> needs to look to not having too many "dbus client didn't receive answer"
<seb128> the corresponding launchpad bug is a duplicate of a closed bug
<seb128> it's all a bit confusing
<didrocks> seb128: I never grasp successfully errors.ubuntu.com TBH
<didrocks> seb128: I guess this happens when the apt database is confused though, can be multiple cases
<seb128> k
<seb128> but it's a regression from the python3 port from barry?
<didrocks> IIRC, I was escaping it in some way before the port, right
 * didrocks found the systemd commit introducing the regression btw
<didrocks> that one! over the 160 :p
<seb128> didrocks, well done!
<seb128> which commit was it?
<didrocks> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/systemd/systemd-stable/patch/?id=b238b0eaf71449e128480bb5a5875a4b51cafd6f
<didrocks> a simple .service file change
 * seb128 bets on the fsckd plymouth integration!
<didrocks> roh
 * didrocks slaps seb128
<didrocks> :)
<seb128> sorry, need to start trolling, people are off on friday this week :p
<seb128> heh ^^
<didrocks> yeah, thanks for thinking about them!
<didrocks> the consequence is that the boot order is all changed then
<didrocks> plymouth isn't started before fsck finishes
<didrocks> and so on
<didrocks> (30s boot delay on the adt testbed)
<seb128> Laney, soooo, in those "desktop got renamed, let's create compat ones" game, why did we end up adding NoDisplay=true to the new name?$
<Laney> to not show two
<seb128> why the new one
<seb128> and not the old one?
<Laney> the new one is the new name
<Laney> old one is for compatibility
<seb128> right
<seb128> but why don't we want to show the new name?
<seb128> Laney, the reason I'm asking is that on current vivid, the dash lists nautilus.desktop and not org.gnome.Nautilus.desktop, so if you click on nautilus in the dash or dnd that icon to the launcher it fails to match the running instance which is org.gnome.Nautilus.desktop
<seb128> bug #1436297
<ubot5> bug 1436297 in unity (Ubuntu) "Nautilus launcher icon matching issue (seems due to desktop rename)" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1436297
<seb128> Trevinho, also, how does bamf know what .desktop corresponds to an xwindow?
<seb128> because nautilus seems special
<seb128> the same is not an issue with totem or file-roller which had the same .desktop rename dance
<seb128> cyphermox, hey, do you think you could look at/upstream at least https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager-applet/+bug/1418260
<ubot5> Error: ubuntu bug 1418260 not found
<seb128> it's a segfault in nm-applet that started with 0.9.10, https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/91da1afe1d626059f88ff4a6f225718a2e20ed3d
<seb128> it's not specific to us
<seb128> https://retrace.fedoraproject.org/faf/reports/352711/
<Laney> sorry, was debugging syslog being spammed
<Laney> ENOSPC -> remove some files -> 2 minutes later, ENOSPC
<Laney> systemd was looping a umount and spamming syslog
<Laney> IIRC it's on this one because some environment (panel or xfce maybe) was respecting NoDisplay
<Laney> so if people have customised menus they would get broken
<Laney> not sure why unity doesn't handle this case
<cyphermox> seb128: ok
<seb128> cyphermox, thanks
<seb128> Laney, well, the issue is that unity respects NoDisplay
<seb128> Laney, so it lists nautilus.desktop in the dash and not org.gnome.Nautilus.desktop which is NoDisplay=true
<seb128> Laney, or bamf matches nautilus with o.g.N.d
<seb128> so if you run nautilus from the dash the launcher gets an extra icon for n.d rather than using the o.g.N.d one
<Laney> It's meant to respect NoDisplay for the dash, otherwise this exercise would not work at all
<Laney> I just told you why it's on the .desktop file that it is
<Trevinho> seb128: there are multiple ways...
<Trevinho> seb128: first we use class name
<Trevinho> then we can use app-id (as per larsu work)
<Trevinho> or we end up using the PID and process name
<Laney> how come the org.gnome desktop file was getting involved?
<Laney> ah I guess because of MimeType
<Laney> might be clever to move this to the other one
<Laney> but there's been some other changes to use the new name for nautilus ...
 * Laney goes away, see you tomorrow
<ricotz> hi, looks like the just uploaded language-selector has some syntax issue in /etc/profile.d/cedilla-brazil.sh causing bash to choke
<seb128> Laney, I think we don't understand each other
<seb128> Laney, unity does respect NoDisplay, which is the issue
<seb128> since o.g.N.d has the NoDisplay=true it lists nautilus.desktop
<seb128> or the running instance is o.g.N.d
<seb128> so it doesn't match
<seb128> to work the dash would need to list the new desktop, which means having the NoDisplay is the compat old name
<seb128> Laney, Trevinho, that's bug #1439309
<ubot5> bug 1439309 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "Use the new desktop shortcut for Nautilus in Applications menu" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1439309
<Laney> seb128: I'm asking *why* that new one got used
<kenvandine> robru, silo 23 has dropped off the spreadsheet and the dashboard shows it as test passed
<kenvandine> when i add it back, how do i associate my silo with the line on the spreadsheet?
<robru> kenvandine: copy & paste error? you asked me that in -ci-eng already
<robru> or this one was first and I missed the highlight, sorry ;-)
<kenvandine> robru, this was the first, realized it was wrong channel
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-04-02
<didrocks> good morning
<jhenke> hi any firefox involved people here?
<Laney> hey hey!
<seb128> hey Laney,  how are you?
<Laney> tea, sun, #ubuntu-desktop
<Laney> what more could anyone need?
<Laney> you?
<Laney> oh, and fake friday!
<seb128> coffee, blue sky, nothing to complain about today!
<seb128> yeah, it's between troll day and troll day
<Laney> chpe even applied my patch
<Laney> what a world we live in
<didrocks> good morning Laney
<Laney> hey didrocks
<Laney> what's happening?
<didrocks> Laney: normal Thursday for me ;)
<didrocks> happy that we found the systemd autopkgtests issue and now reverted in experimental
<Laney> oh yes, let's see if my container has network this morning ;-)
<Laney> nope!
<darkxst> hey laney, seb128 didrocks
<darkxst> can someone take a look at bug 1437150, more fallout from the adwaita-icon-theme switch
<ubot5> bug 1437150 in apturl (Ubuntu) "nautilus samba sharing services failed to install" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1437150
<Laney> ok
<Laney> what package does it try to install?
<seb128> Laney, I'm unsure about your nautilus question from yesterday, why what got used?
<seb128> Laney, the new .desktop? because I guess that's what upstream use as an autostart or is dbus activated
<seb128> that's not something I did/know about, you did that update iirc :-)
<darkxst> Laney, it tries to install some part of samba for the sharing
<Laney> yes - you've done some changes around this area recently so I thought you might know
<seb128> well, I though we ought to use the new name
<seb128> so I migrated the unity config, default&upgrade to use that
<Laney> darkxst: I just wanted to know what to uninstall to reproduce this
<seb128> which makes the launcher matching work now with the running nautilus
<seb128> but it creates an issue still with the dash
<seb128> unsure what to do next
<Laney> does it work if you swap the NoDisplay?
<darkxst> Laney, probably just uninstall samba
<darkxst> not sure if this affects the ubuntu themes though, they may still have the legacy icons
<seb128> Laney, I didn't try, but I guess, it would make the dash list the one used in the launcher/by nautilus
<Laney> if so, then maybe you can make nautilus.desktop be NotShowIn=Unity and org.gnome.Nautilus.desktop be OnlyShowIn=Unity
<Laney> which should keep compatibility with panel/xfce/whateveritwas and work with your new stuff
<seb128> Laney, hum, right
<Laney> hmm
<didrocks> Laney: I'm happy to use g_clear_error(), even if it doesn't match what other part of the code is doing
<didrocks> Laney: I'm wanting to avoid using initctl for now, as it seems those things can be slow on the bq device (that's what I was doing first, when asking people with a bq to test)
<Laney> really?
<didrocks> Laney: yeah, I have this issue as well when using invoke-rc.d status already
<didrocks> and as it's dbus sync call (apparentlyâ¦)
<didrocks> Laney: I'm rebuilding with g_clear_error
<didrocks> Laney: reuploaded
<Laney> seems fast enough here
<Laney> meh
<Laney> it's really shit that we can't do correct solutions
<didrocks> Laney: well, ask seb, he did the test
<Laney> thanks for the other fix
<didrocks> (on bq)
<didrocks> Laney: TBH, the systemd one is the correct solution, and I hope the phone will switch to it soon enough
<Laney> it's about using the best interface available for the job
<didrocks> the best interface would have been to have a dbus one
<didrocks> instead of grepping on tools output or reading files
<Laney> doesn't exist though does it
<Laney> best interface *available*
<didrocks> I disagree that grepping on output is better than reading a file
<Laney> if I edit this file and comment out the manual line
<Laney> then you give the wrong answer now
<didrocks> Laney: well, it was giving the wrong answer before as well (the fact to create the file would have given the wrong answer)
<didrocks> and same with the enabled even before
<Laney> I'd choose right over less wrong
<Laney> but okay
<larsu> Laney, the idealist
<GunnarHj> infinity: Thanks for rescuing me yesterday. Embarrassing mistake this late in the cycle. :(
<Laney> larsu: is there an enviornment variable to change the icon theme Ã  la GTK_MODULES?
<Laney> can't see anything in the docs, so I guess not
<larsu> Laney: XDG_DATA_DIRS
<Laney> and copy the one I want to use?
<larsu> oh wait, I misread sorry
<larsu> you want a different theme, not a different search path
<larsu> that's a xsetting, no?
<Laney> ye
<Laney> just wanted to override it once
 * larsu looks at the source
<larsu> Laney: no such thing exists. You could set it in the overrides key of the xsettings g-s-d plugin
<larsu> but then, you might as well change the icon-theme key itself
 * Laney nods
<Laney> I just did that
<Laney> thanks for checking!
<larsu> maybe it makes sense to add that?
<larsu> I've never felt a need for it myself though
<Laney> I use GTK_THEME from time to time
<Laney> probably would use an icon one less frequently
<larsu> we have kind of changed the definition of theme anyway
<larsu> it includes icons now
<larsu> at least in the user-facing ui
<larsu> maybe it makes sense to formalize that and make GTK_THEME respect it?
<Laney> you mean our UI sets both?
<larsu> yes. It sets a lot of things
<Laney> how does this work?
<Laney> does the theme say what its matching icon theme is?
<larsu> there are files somewhere in /usr/share that describe a full theme
 * larsu tres to find them
<Laney> ya index.theme has this
<larsu> indeed
<larsu> not saying we should teahc gtk about that file
<larsu> but we could think about it
<Laney> what does consume it now?
<larsu> a myriad of things from xsettings, gsettings, and env variables
 * Laney feels hungry and realises he hasn't eaten yet
<didrocks> Laney: quick, go eating! :)
<Laney> got to eat outside
<Laney> SPRING!
<ogra_> in the snow yu mean ?
<Laney> don't curse me
<Laney> sunny, no wind
<Laney> it was at least 10Â°!
<ogra_> nah, i cant blame you that it snows in germany since two dasys :)
<ogra_> *days
<Laney> you need to get yourself a jet stream
<ogra_> heh, my house is that tall
<ogra_> *isnt
<Laney> seb128: do you know if https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=744282 got looked at further?
<ubot5> Gnome bug 744282 in gio "gvfs-open for application/x-virt-viewer changed behaviour between 2.40 and 2.42" [Normal,New]
<seb128> Laney, no, desrt never got back to me here
<Laney> that guy!
<seb128> desrt, ^ can you comment on that please?
<desrt> interesting
<desrt> iirc that conversation was quite old
<desrt> seb128: i'd be interested to know if gedit is installed in ~/.local/share or ~/.config somehow
<seb128> desrt, yeah, well it's making apport files open in gedit rather than being sent to launchpad
<desrt> like in a mime config file
<seb128> no it's not
<desrt> not even in the mimeapps?
<seb128> it's just that glib prefers a default handler for a subtype than an handler for that exact type
<desrt> oh.
<seb128> text/x-crash has only one handler, apport-gtk.desktop
<seb128> but it's a subtype of text/plain
<desrt> but it's not in defaults.list
<seb128> which has gedit as default handler
<seb128> no
<desrt> right
<desrt> okay
<desrt> that's a different issue from what i think i was talking to teuf about
<seb128> but it's the only handler for that exact type
<desrt> and i'm not 100% sure i agree that the behaviour is wrong
<seb128> I don't think so
<seb128> so if you have 1 handler for the exact type that should not be the one used?
<seb128> lot of types subclass text/plain
<desrt> not if you explicitly listed a default for the less specific type
<seb128> it seems wrong to prefer gedit rather than the "native" handler
<desrt> well, you could just as well add the native handler to the defaults list
<seb128> that's a workaround
<desrt> i'd say it's the correct solution
<desrt> but to be honest, i'm not sure
<desrt> and i don't think the spec says one way or the other
<seb128> so you say it's normal that .ui files open in gedit rather than glade if glade is not set default
<seb128> or apport files in gedit rather than apport
<seb128> that seems backward to me
<desrt> gimme a sec.  reading the spec.
<seb128> thanks
<desrt> the spec is totally oblivious to inheritence and aliasing :(
<seb128> well to me it would make sense to pick an handler for the exact type if possible, whatever the case is
<desrt> the patch to make the spec do what you want would be smaller than the patch to make the spec do the other thing
<desrt> so let's assume you're right :p
<seb128> lol
<desrt> i'll look into it today
<seb128> thanks
<nrosvall> Hi, I'm working on a quite big software project. Now when Unity 8 is coming and all that new stuff I'm wondering how much Unity 7 and 8 api will be different
<nrosvall> say indicators? will indicators written for unity 7 work with unity 8?
<nrosvall> (not sure if this is the right place to ask)
<desrt> new favourite bug summary: " many aspects of human life have no main category. "
<desrt> along with a bunch of other bugs advocating the creation of main categories for things like "farm management"
 * desrt doesn't even know what a main category is, but is pretty sure 'farm management' isn't one
<desrt> seb128: aside: how goes the migration from defaults.list?
<seb128> desrt, we didn't do anything for that, I've it somewhere on my list of things we should look at but forgot the detauls so needs to sit down and read what we said on that topic back then
<desrt> basically, it ought to be renamed to gnome-mimeapps.list
<desrt> or unity-mimeapps.list, accordingly
<desrt> ie: defaults depend on which desktop is logged in
<seb128> desrt, oh, right, that's good, we need to do that next cycle ... or maybe while in London ;-)
<desrt> it is also (theroetically) supported by qt
<desrt> defaults.list has never been
<desrt> seb128: you've thrown me into some fun territory here
<desrt> the "consider each type separately logic" obvious logic gets non-obvious with negative results
<desrt> like if i have an app that is listed as both text/html and text/plain
<desrt> and someone has removed the text/html association
<desrt> that app could still end up opening the file on the basis of the text/plain association, if that one was not also explicitly blacklisted
<desrt> in that case, this "handle the subtype before moving up to the supertype" logic breaks down a bit
<desrt> seems the spec will need some deeper clarifications...
<desrt> it gets extra hard when the super-type match comes from the defaults list but the "removed" association was made via the more specific type.  the code has absolutely no way of dealing with this possibility, at present
<larsu> desrt: do people even use all those features? Nautilus only lets you change associations, no? Not explicitley remove them
<seb128> I don't think we have any UI that let you remove associations
<seb128> we just have a way to set defaults
<larsu> right
<larsu> and that makes this whole thing *a lot* easier
<seb128> indeed
<seb128> in practice you just want to say "open that type of file with this software"
 * larsu knows that desrt likes to solve the tricky problems
<larsu> seb128: ya...
<seb128> mitya57, thanks for sponsoring those u-s-d/gnome-desktop3 SRUs
<desrt> you can definitely remove associations
<seb128> desrt, how/where?
<seb128> you can in the spec, I just don't think we have an UI for it
<desrt> nautilus
<desrt> right click a file, open properties
<desrt> go to the "open with" tab
<desrt> right click an app
<desrt> "forget association"
<larsu> dude, install ubuntu
<seb128> right click doesn't do anything here
<desrt> well, it does on upstream nautilus
<larsu> hm/
<desrt> (or at least nautilus as packaged by debian)
<larsu> seb128: right click / propeerties works for me
<seb128> new feature in 3.16?
<seb128> larsu, I don't have a context menu on right click here?
<larsu> desrt: in any case, that's a questionable feature
<desrt> i don't think so
<desrt> if a user doesn't like an app they may very well want to break an association made at the system level
<larsu> seb128: you don't have a context menu in nautilus?! Craziness
<desrt> larsu: i think he means on the apps in the open-with tab
<larsu> desrt: no, more likely they'll want to set a different app
<desrt> seb128: it doesn't work for the default app -- only the others
<desrt> under "recommended applications"
<larsu> oh
<larsu> hm, it works for *some* of the others
<desrt> anyway
<larsu> meh, it's neither discoverable nor useful
<desrt> i can see what you mean
<larsu> seb128 and I didn't even know it existed
<desrt> removing apps is a bit weird
<desrt> but it's something that we have in the spec since prehistoric times
<larsu> and considering that it makes the implementation considerably simpler
<larsu> ...
<desrt> since before it was a spec, frankly
<larsu> nothing we can't change
<desrt> dunno
<desrt> the ability to remove associations is also API
<desrt> although we could redefine that to "this is used for breaking incorrect associations that the user made themselves"
<desrt> not for blacklisting stuff made at a different level
<larsu> the most sacred asset we have. API. We never break or deprecate any of it!
<desrt> ie: if you say that gedit can open jpegs
<desrt> and later you decide that this wasn't a good idea after all
<desrt> then you can fix it
<desrt> but if gedit claims MimeType=image/jpeg in its desktop file, it is there forever
<desrt> doing this would simplify things a fair bit....
<larsu> if gedit claims it's name is GEdti in its desktop file, it is there forever
<desrt> larsu: where were you when we were discussing this? :p
<larsu> desrt: glad to save you some man-hours by dropping by this channel and quipping about something I have no business in
<desrt> i guess none of us at the table, at the time, really considered just axing that part of the spec
<larsu> desrt: not sure. When did you discuss this?
<larsu> in NUR?
<desrt> ya
<desrt> (NUE, btw)
<larsu> oh. thanks.
<desrt> you were there :p
<larsu> drunk maybe? Sleeping? Talking to rishi?
<desrt> maybe
<desrt> it was mostly david and i arguing over it
<desrt> i guess we could say that handling of removed apps is optional
<larsu> sounds good to me :)
 * desrt is not yet convinced
<larsu> I bet KDE is of a different opinion
<desrt> :)
<larsu> I don't know enough to convince you all the way I'm afraid
<desrt> i'll open a bug and see if anyone says anything
<larsu> maybe seb128 can help
<larsu> desrt: I love how this works sometimes... I didn't even think much when typing this into here
<larsu> was eating some bread and idly reading the last few lines of backlog
<desrt> ya... having some outside-the-box stuff injected is often helpful
<desrt> unfortunately i don't think it's actually helpful for today
<desrt> since i'm certainly not making this change in glib now
<desrt> so i'll still have to implement this mess
<larsu> why?
<desrt> but the one benefit is that i can tell myself that i don't have to bother trying to explain it consistently in the spec
<desrt> because seb wants a bug fixed now, and this 'kill remove' thing is going to take some discussion
<larsu> what's the bug?
 * larsu does like a five-year old and asks all the whys
<desrt> we prefer a default app for text/plain over a non-default (but available) app for a more specific type
<desrt> like if gedit handles text/plain and we have firefox installed, but not marked as a default for text/html
<desrt> then gedit would be picked as the default for text/html
<desrt> since there is no "default" for text/html
<larsu> that's a bug indeed, but I don't see how that's related
<larsu> hm, I think I can imagine cases where you don't want this
<larsu> ah no, should be fine
<desrt> the problem comes when we have gedit with its association explicitly broken for text/httml, but still capable of handling text/plain
<desrt> do we consider the text/html "removed association" as effecting gedit's ability to handle text/plain for a file that happens to be html?
<desrt> or do we say "well, no... we didn't find anything for text/html, and it still handles text/plain... so let's do it!"
<desrt> ie: we move towards a place where we consider each mimetype separately, in sequence, from most specific to least specific
<larsu> hard to say
<desrt> but it seems that there is a reason to want this process to be not-entirely-separated
<larsu> I think if we don't have any other app, we should let gedit open it
<larsu> but then, I think this whole removal thing is stupid
<desrt> ya...
<desrt> killing off remove would solve so many open questions like this
<desrt> and you're right -- it's pretty borderline, as far as features go
<desrt> it solves another more general annoying problem as well
<desrt> with respect to user intent
<desrt> if i right click on a html file and say "remove association for gedit"
<desrt> am i intending to do that for html files, or for all text files?
<desrt> since gedit doesn't really explicitly list text/html
<desrt> it's sort of a random detail that the file that i used to open that dialog happened to be html
<desrt> what if it was something even more texty, like a desktop file, but still had its own mime entry?
<desrt> so now i have to take care to find a real 'text/plain' text file in order to do the operation i want?
<larsu> haha yeah
<larsu> that's a problem with mime types anyway: some of them are more "alike" than others
<desrt> also reduces some of the complexities in dealing with mime aliases
* FatBack changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: penis
* cyphermox changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Issues with GTK 3.14? Check here: http://pad.ubuntu.com/gtk-update-v
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-04-03
<didrocks> good morning
<mitya57> charles: hi, can you please approve https://code.launchpad.net/~mitya57/indicator-session/lp1363630_trusty/+merge/253339 (identical to the fix that has landed in utopic)?
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<didrocks> hey seb128
<seb128> lut didrocks :-)
<seb128> Ubuntu GNOME people might be interested looking to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm/+bug/1315442
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1315442 in gdm (Ubuntu Trusty) "Extra "fi" in /etc/init.d/gdm" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ochosi> hm, quick question, did you guys notice any longer delay with upower0.99 notifying about state changes (e.g. on ac, on battery, charging, discharing)? in xubuntu with xfce4-power-manager it takes longer, so i wanted to see whether other DEs notice the same thing (so that would suggest upower0.99 is at fault) or whether it's xfce4-power-manager's fault somehow
<darkxst> seb128, yes, seen that, I will sponsor it over the weekend
<seb128> darkxst, hey, thanks
<darkxst> seb128, np, I spent good friday painting and riding, too tired to look at patches now!
<seb128> good luck with that :-)
<darkxst> not at the same time!
<seb128> GunnarHj, hey, do you have an opinion on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fonts-takao/+bug/1430339?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1430339 in fonts-takao (Ubuntu) "fc-match Ryumin should return Mincho(serif) font in ja locale" [Medium,Confirmed]
<seb128> or could you review it?
<didrocks> GunnarHj: hey, around?
<GunnarHj> didrocks: I'm here.
<didrocks> GunnarHj: I guess you edited your patch for bug #1435492 a little bit too quickly
<ubot5> bug 1435492 in upstart (Ubuntu) "Xsession.d script assumes that /sbin is in $PATH" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1435492
<didrocks> -+    STARTUP="upstart --user"
<didrocks> ++    STARTUP="/sbin/upstart --user"
<didrocks> this is in debian/xsession.d/99upstart, right?
<GunnarHj> didrocks: Probably... Let me take a look and fix it.
<didrocks> GunnarHj: thanks, mind rebasing the changelog on ubuntu11? (an upload last night), if you don't have time, I'm happy to deal with it
<GunnarHj> didrocks: No problem, it makes sense that I fix my own mess. ;)
<didrocks> thanks! :)
<seb128> GunnarHj, hey, did you see my question earlier?
<GunnarHj> seb128: No.
<GunnarHj> seb128: Where, when?
<seb128> GunnarHj, this channel ~3h ago
<seb128> GunnarHj, the activity just before didrocks' ping to you
<GunnarHj> seb128: Actually I had a look at it, did a couple of tests, and couldn't find any problem. But I'm certainly not an expert.
<GunnarHj> seb128: Especially it shouldn't affect other languages but Japanese.
<seb128> GunnarHj, you did the previous change on that package so I though you might have an opinion ... looks good to you then?
<GunnarHj> seb128: Yes, as far as I can tell.
<seb128> GunnarHj, thanks
<GunnarHj> didrocks: Patch at bug #1435492 fixed, I hope.
<ubot5> bug 1435492 in upstart (Ubuntu) "Xsession.d script assumes that /sbin is in $PATH" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1435492
<GunnarHj> didrocks: Actually, the other patch was the delta between the .diff files. Apparently that's not what you wanted. ;) (I'm more used to the debian files than the .diff files.)
<didrocks> GunnarHj: looks perfect, thanks! sponsoring
<GunnarHj> didrocks: Great! Sorry for the inconvenience.
<didrocks> GunnarHj: thanks for the work! :)
<charles> mitya57, sure
<saivert> I have already prepared a btrfs subvolume that I call "ubuntu". I want to install Ubuntu there and boot from it using rootflags=subvol=ubuntu on the kernel command line. I tried the debootstrap approach but that left me with a nonbooting system (lots of errors during boot). So I tried extracting the livecd system to the subvolume instead but this forces me to login as a Guest user and does not let me
<saivert> login with any other account that I created.
<seb128> saivert, hey, you are on the wrong channel, try #ubuntu
<saivert> I was told there to try here
<seb128> whoever told you that was wrong
<saivert> as this is a desktop thing
<seb128> not really
<saivert> ah okay fuck it then
<seb128> btrfs, boot, kernel, none of those are desktop keywords ;-)
<seb128> Laney, item for next week, but would be nice to update cairo to the new stable version, it fixes some launchpad reported bugs
<mitya57> charles: Thanks!
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-04-04
<BigWhale> Uhmmm... Is it a normal behavior of GtkVolumeButton to freeze and eventually crash compiz? Probably not, right?
<BigWhale> When clicked on the icon.
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-04-05
<sinasaharkhiz> Hey guys, anyone has any idea about this?: http://askubuntu.com/questions/605158/is-it-possible-to-use-two-external-monitors-for-my-thinkpad-t440p-using-a-lenovo
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-04-04
<hikiko> Hi
<TheMuso> Hey hikiko.
<duflu> hikiko, TheMuso: Happy Monday morning/afternoon
<pitti> Good morning
<duflu> pitti: Morning
<hikiko> http://askubuntu.com/questions/43386/how-do-i-get-my-blacked-out-ttys-back <- i have the problem he describes on xenial :/ blacked out ttys from 1 to 6
<hikiko> happy monday duflu pitti TheMuso etc :D
<pitti> hey hikiko!
<hikiko> hi :)
<willcooke> morning all
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<willcooke> hey seb128!  How was your break?
<seb128> hey willcooke lan3y
<seb128> good!
<seb128> enjoyed some nice weather and walks in the nature
<seb128> how was it here? not too much madness?
<willcooke> seb128, some madness
<willcooke> :)
<seb128> of course
<willcooke> Beta was fun
<seb128> would be boring otherwise ;-)
<willcooke> But I think we've cracked it now.  Still catching up on my emails from last week
<willcooke> Other than that, pretty good
<seb128> had a good week off as well?
<willcooke> Yeah, it was really nice.  Sunshine and doing things with the family.  A nice break
<willcooke> and I'm off again on Friday for a long weekend :)
<willcooke> Then we go to SLC
<willcooke> then back
<willcooke> then Prague
<willcooke> then it's May
<willcooke> ??!?!
<seb128> indeed
<seb128> with 16.04 in between
<willcooke> oh yeah!
<willcooke> man, gonna need another holiday soon
<pitti> bonjour seb128, comment vas-tu ?
<pitti> hey willcooke
<willcooke> morning pitti
<seb128> salut pitti! Ã§a va bien! et toi ?
<pitti> seb128: Ã§a va bien aussi, le week-end Ã©tait magnifique -- le premier vrai week-end de printemps
<seb128> chouette
<pitti> on a fait beaucoup de jardinage, j'ai nettoyÃ© les fenÃªtres, etc.
<seb128> c'est bien de profiter du jardin ;-)
<pitti> en effet !
<pitti> c'est un plaisir, beaucoup de <tulips> maintenant
<seb128> :-)
<seb128> willcooke, is Laney back today?
<willcooke> seb128, he's at the GNOME Software hackfest
<willcooke> along with attenta
<willcooke> attente
<seb128> oh, right, that's this week
<willcooke> Just about to hit send on the who-where-when email...
<seb128> k
<seb128> willcooke, do you have anything specific on your list we should focus on? I did mostly catch up on emails and I'm going to do some bug triage/iso testing/bugs fixing today but I'm a bit out of the loop on recent issues so let me know if you know of any we should work on now
<willcooke> seb128, sure.  Just getting my list updated no
<willcooke> now
<willcooke> Most important off the top of my head
<willcooke> is that 14.04 -> 16.04 upgrade issue
<willcooke> which I think is diagnosed now
<willcooke> and this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1532226
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1532226 in unity (Ubuntu) "A significant number of fresh boots or restarts result in no menus for most apps" [High,Confirmed]
<willcooke> which Trevinho is working on
<willcooke> Plus the swap on install issue
<seb128> I saw that in my email backlog
<seb128> I see that cyphermox did a udisk upload, that might fix those installer/partition issues
<willcooke> ah nice
<willcooke> he was working on it last week, so that sounds right
<seb128> btw you didn't manage to land your themes fixes? I saw the changelog listing the linked buttons styling only
<seb128> I though you had some for e.g the calendar current day focus one
<seb128> or it looked like from emails
<willcooke> lan3y wasnt sure if we should land the others changes or not
<willcooke> it was late
<willcooke> I have fixed most of them, I'll send you some links and we can work it out
<seb128> :-(
<seb128> lan3y and I have different conservativeness balances :p
<willcooke> :) yeah
<seb128> like currently the selected day is not indicated at all
<willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-themes/+bug/1551744
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1551744 in ubuntu-themes (Ubuntu) "Calendar: Clicking on today does nothing from the Month view" [Low,In progress]
<seb128> that would be rather a bugfix than an UI change to make that work imho
<willcooke> I agree it's a bug fix :)
<seb128> did laney said he had concerned about that one?
<seb128> ir was that just done after the landing?
<willcooke> Ah, well that one is tricky, because it also has a slightly hacky work around for Calendar having white corners
<willcooke> Trevinho, lan3y  -  any better way of fixing the white corner issue? ^
<willcooke> if not, then I think we should go for it
<seb128> k
<willcooke> The Rhythmbox fix for the toggle buttons is a lot harder than I thought.  I have something working but it's not perfect, the background bleeds outside the borders
<hikiko> willcooke, https://code.launchpad.net/~hikiko/compiz/compiz.black-dots-fix this fixes the black dots but Trevinho said we can't merge it because it causes other problems, maybe we could fix the other problems
<hikiko> (it forces gtk to use 32 bit visuals => we have alpha => black/white dots are transparent dots)
<willcooke> I think thats a different issue
<hikiko> ah sorry then
<willcooke> nw
<andyrock> good morning
<seb128> hey andyrock! how are you?
<andyrock> hey seb128 find and you?
<andyrock> back from holidays?
<seb128> I'm good thanks, and indeed back from holidays ;-)
<willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-icon-theme/+bug/1563995
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1563995 in gnome-icon-theme (Ubuntu) "[MIR] gnome-icon-theme" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<willcooke> seb128, is that on your list? ^
<willcooke> Actually,
<willcooke> it would be easier if I collate a list
<seb128> willcooke, yes, it is
<willcooke> thx
<seb128> but thanks for the reminder ;-)
<willcooke> seb128, I'm going through my email, so we'll probably hit the same list in the end
<willcooke> I'll gather it all in one place
<seb128> tag?
<seb128> rls-x-incoming
<willcooke> hummm
<willcooke> I think that tag might be polluted atm
<willcooke> oh crap
<willcooke> I forgot to Won't Fix those bugs
<Sweet5hark> moin
<seb128> hey Sweet5hark!
<seb128> how are you?
<seb128> had a good w.e?
<Sweet5hark> yes, somewhat boring -- but good nonetheless ;)
<seb128> boring is good sometimes ;-)
<Trevinho> willcooke: hey, so.. I didn't find any better solution for those corners
<willcooke> Trevinho, thanks.  seb128_ - I think we're OK to merge that calendar css fix then.
<willcooke> although, I haven't fixed the manage lists bit yet
<Trevinho> seb128_, lan3y: hey, welcome back, had good times?
<willcooke> I will try and get on to that this afternoon, and then we can do one merge
<seb128_> trevinho, hey! yes, thanks ;-) what about you? not too much crazyness around? I saw you posted some nice photos on fb as well
<seb128_> willcooke, k
<Trevinho> seb128_: yeah, all right... These are not mine though (the Tuscany ones), just shared an album :-)
<Trevinho> I ordered a new laptop though....
<willcooke> seb128, @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-themes/+bug/1558659
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1558659 in ubuntu-themes (Ubuntu) "gnome-calendar "manage" list uses wrong selection color " [High,Confirmed]
<willcooke> seb128, the issue being that the text on hover is white?
<seb128> trevinho, ah ok ... which one?
<seb128> willcooke, right
<willcooke> seb128, thx
<seb128> or that the bg color is wrong
<Trevinho> Went for the bulky t460p at the end.. I wanted the quad core and a good keyboard (this last thing excluded the cool xps15).
<seb128> you don't like dell keyboards?
 * seb128 never got those keyboard issues
<Trevinho> Not sure if I'll be totally happy with it though, but I'll see how it goes
<seb128> I guess I'm not that picky
<Trevinho> Well, I wanted the track point also, but more than that, not having to use the fn key for things such end or page keys
<seb128> k
<seb128> oh, nice, dell.fr has "Nouveau XPS 13 Ubuntu" in its main menu
<Trevinho> Plus that small enter key... Latitude E5470 was also something I was considering, but there was no quad core option sold here
<seb128> the xps header has 12-13-15-13 ubuntu as categories
<seb128> you don't even need to enter the section to filter by OS or anything
<Trevinho> Yeah, I was considering of getting that as travel notebook in case... We'll see.
<Trevinho> Indeed a very nice machine
<Trevinho> seb128: you got that then?
<seb128> not yet, they just added them while I was on vac
<seb128> I'm back at being unsure if I want 1920x1080 or the 3200x1800 touch hidpi screen :p
<Trevinho> andyrock: have you seen https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1552537 what else do we need for debugging?
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1552537 in unity (Ubuntu) "Lock screen bypassed by switching to console and then back to GUI" [Medium,Confirmed]
<Trevinho> seb128: touch and HiDPI if you don't plan to u use it docked I guess... :-\
<seb128> trevinho, I'm going to use it docked most of the time I think, also the hidpi is less comfortable in my opinion (less things not adapted, included e.g firefox) and uses a bit more battery
<seb128> but I might take that just because I want to make Ubuntu better/fix hidpi bugs
<Trevinho> That could be the hard way, yeah.
<andyrock> Trevinho: "I tried changing the lock screen to something that looks similar to the login greeter. At first it didn't work."
<andyrock> what does that mean?
<Trevinho> No idea..
<willcooke> bah.  Those pop-downs in Calendar aren't inspectable
<willcooke> Trevinho, any clues on the missing menus btw?
<andyrock> Trevinho: i can reproduce it with legacy g-s
<andyrock> i suspect the problem is due to
<andyrock> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/ZxnSgvFA/
<andyrock> and
<davmor2> willcooke: if they aren't inspectable how the hell does the screenreader see it
<andyrock> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/xhvkUzAM/
<andyrock> so that explains also the comment
<willcooke> ah, wait, I win
<willcooke> open the drop down, then ctrl-shit-i
 * ogra_ tries to not make a laxative joke about willcooke's last line
<willcooke> ha!
<willcooke> oops
<willcooke> in unrelated news, brb
<willcooke> ;D
<davmor2> willcooke: not back to gedit
<willcooke> seb128, https://code.launchpad.net/~willcooke/ubuntu-themes/ubuntu-themes-calendar-focus/+merge/290859
<willcooke> How can I tell if this:
<willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dbus/+bug/1555237/comments/31
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1555237 in systemd (Ubuntu) "Upgrade from 14.04.4â 16.04 dies midway taking out the session." [Critical,Fix released]
<willcooke> made it in to the daily build on 1st April?
<willcooke> davmor2, you might know - does the daily iso now allow 14.04 -> 16.04 upgrades?  Just about to test it, so I'll know in about 30 mins, but if you already know....
<darkxst> willcooke, I think the fixes might have landed after april 1st spin
<willcooke> thanks darkxst
<willcooke> also hi
<darkxst> hey
<Sweet5hark> seb128, willcooke: oh and btw welcome back to both of you: I hope you had some a nice time off.
<willcooke> hey Sweet5hark!
<davmor2> willcooke: no idea, from what jibel said it might if you disable the lock screen but haven't got round to that yet
<davmor2> willcooke: you know first day back after a week off feeling
<willcooke> davmor2, I do indeed
<willcooke> :)
<Trevinho> willcooke: ah I didn't read the question about menus... Well, I'm still at "I can't reproduce state" :-\
<seb128> Sweet5hark, hey, yes I had ;-)
<seb128> Sweet5hark, how were thing around? I think I saw a new libreoffice mentioned in the chan backlog ... needs some sponsoring?
<seb128> willcooke, if you have the iso you can dpkg -l or if it's still to download you can check the version in the manifest
<lan3y> hiya
<Laney> why do I have a stupid nickname
<Guest76158> aarhrhgh
<Laney> right sorry coming back
<Laney> in a bit
<Sweet5hark> seb128: week was really quiet.
<Sweet5hark> seb128: no sponsoring needed. doko removed java 7, which made libreoffice autopkgtests unhappy. It needed a trivial one-line fix, which doko self-sponsored.
<Sweet5hark> seb128: LibreOffice 5.1.2 will be finalized this week. Might be a worthwhile bugfix set to sponsor still before final freeze ..
<seb128> Sweet5hark, yeah, we should do it
<seb128> hey Laney, had a nice week off? and a good trip to the great London city? ;-)
<pitti> hey Laney, how are you?
<Laney> hey seb128 and pitti!
<Laney> back from lunch now
<seb128> hey laney!
<Laney> holiday was good thanks, lots of slow travelling on the canal
<Laney> and operating locks
<seb128> some sun? no rain?
<Laney> HAHA funny
<Laney> so much rain
<Laney> and hail
<seb128> :-(
<Laney> but also some sun including one sunny day
<Laney> never mind!
<Laney> you have to expect that if you holiday in the uk in march ;-)
<Laney> how about you?
<seb128> holidays were good, mostly sunny
<seb128> some nice walks and enjoyed being outside
<seb128> we had one rainy sunday and one day quite windy
<Laney> not bad
<seb128> how is London?
<seb128> do you have any agenda for the hackfest?
<Laney> this wifi sucks
<Laney> it's alright, the office is close to london bridge
<Laney> not bad weather
<Laney> not much agenda, just working on stuff
<Laney> we know how to do custom featured apps now[C
<Laney> should look at that
<seb128> nice
<seb128> Laney, getting the new appstream parser as well? ;-)
<Laney> funny
<Laney> ximion will show me it though :P
<seb128> joke aside I think translators (and some others) are going to be pretty disappointed if we don't use the deb package descriptions and the ddtp translations :-/
<seb128> which is something the new parser fix if I understood correctly
<Laney> you don't
<Laney> well not for the first part
<Laney> don't know about the second one
<seb128> we use the package descriptions with the current config?
<Laney> http://appstream.ubuntu.com/xenial/main/issues/xdiagnose.html
<seb128> I don't understand how that works :-/
<seb128> inskape description in g-s is "vector-based drawing program"
<seb128> in s-c it's a 10 lines text description
<ximion> seb128: the new generator has support for the translations and full package descriptions
<ximion> currently though, we only load and use the english descriptions
<seb128> why?
<ximion> for the old generator, this feature is broken because Python is buggy
<ximion> seb128: me didn't have time to implement it ;-)
<seb128> I see
<seb128> can we easily workaround that python bug?
<ximion> (also, it increases the time needed to load the data, if we also load all translations)
<seb128> or get somebody pythonish to have a look at fixing the issue?
<ximion> good question, I haven't looked at that yet
<ximion> it's basically the bz2 module in Python3 being unable to load the translation bz2 files properly
<seb128> weird
<ximion> which is definitely not a fault with the bz2 files themself
<seb128> can you open a bug in launchpad maybe about it?
<ximion> jup, I should do that
<seb128> thanks
<ximion> also need to talk with Laney about the new generator ^^
<seb128> :-)
<seb128> not having proper descriptions (and translated ones) seems like an important user experience regressions compared to other tools
<ximion> I plan to use the new generator in Debian ASAP, could maybe even happen this week (if not, then next week)
<ximion> some tests still need to be run though :)
<ximion> for Debian at least, it's much better than the previous code
<ximion> for Ubuntu, it doesn't do the language-pack stuff you need yet, that's an issue
<ximion> oh, a different thing...
<ximion> seb128: we were asking ourselves if there's still a chance to get PK upgraded in Xenial ^^
<ximion> at time, I am seeing quite some crash reports in LP, about something which is definitely fixed upstream already
<seb128> ximion, you should ask somebody from the release team like Laney, but I doubt it
<seb128> ximion, yeah, langpack is a different issue from ddtp
<ximion> prerequisite for upgrading PK would be dropping the pkcompat stuff from atbaptd package
<ximion> so I guess that's won't happen this cycle
<seb128> right, we went round on that
<seb128> unity8 still uses clicks which uses the packagekit plugins interface that got removed
<seb128> that's blocking the update
<ximion> so it's still that thing...
<seb128> indeed
<ximion> at time, yoz have a buggy unmaintained PK and an unmaintained aptdaemon
<ximion> which isn't too great
<seb128> indeed not
<seb128> but it's tested and mostly working
<seb128> well at least aptdaemon
<seb128> we don't use pk in practice atm
<ximion> you do use it's API in a lot of places via pk-glib2
<seb128> right
<seb128> but that doesn't seem to have major issues in the current version
<seb128> well, the situation is not ideal but it seems good enough
<seb128> I hope we can update next cycle, but that click/plugin thing is going to still be an issue until somebody has time to figure out a different way to do things for click
<ximion> seb128: mvo wrote a DBus service for that, I think
<seb128> ximion, right, but he said it was more a proof of concept and nobody seems happy about adding a new service which has those privileges
<seb128> well at least it would need somebody to pick it up and security team review
<pjdelport> Hi there.
<pjdelport> I'm trying to use ubuntu-make on 16.10 to install PyCharm
<pjdelport> However, it looks like it doesn't offer it as an option, because openjdk-7-jdk is not available in the system packages?
<pjdelport> I installed openjdk-8-jdk, but it still doesn't offer PyCharm as an option.
<pjdelport> Err, I meant 16.04 earlier, not 16.10 of course.
<pjdelport> I used ubuntu-make to install and run PyCharm with OpenJDK 8 on 15.10, before this installation
<willcooke> didrocks might know ^
<pjdelport> Hmm, this looks like https://github.com/ubuntu/ubuntu-make/issues/279 ?
<seb128> looks like it
<didrocks> pjdelport: yeah, it's that one. However, I'm surprised it doesn't instlal openjdk-8-jdk for some users automatically
<didrocks> as IIRC, we have an alternative on this
<didrocks> ah, not on that one
<didrocks> pjdelport: LyzardKing is working on it, I hope to merge it tomorrow to master
<pjdelport> I'm running ubuntu-make 16.03.2 from the PPA, by the way (I updated in case it was already fixed there)
<didrocks> yeah, it's a little bit delayed as it broke over the week-end, sorry
<didrocks> pjdelport: subscribe to the bug, I'll then just do a quick release tomorrow with this
<pjdelport> Awesome, thanks. :)
<didrocks> I can send you a diff if you can git clone locally
<didrocks> but maybe you prefer to wait :)
<willcooke> Have sucessfully upgraded a 14.04 machine to 16.04 (with screensaver disabled)
<willcooke> davmor2, ^
<seb128> bah, my cheese upload was rejected
 * seb128 uncommit changes to the vcs and add Laney's upload and rebase
<davmor2> willcooke: WOT!!!!!!!!!
<davmor2> jibel: ^
<willcooke> thanks to cyphermox and pitti's work
<cyphermox> there's still lots to be done ;)
<seb128> willcooke, what's the issue with screensaver?
<willcooke> cyphermox, it's a good start :)
<seb128> hey cyphermox! how are you?
<cyphermox> seb128: screensaver was triggering a failure in compiz or lightdm or something; I expect that is fixed by the dbus upload.
<seb128> k
<cyphermox> doing good! you?
<seb128> I'm good thanks
<willcooke> ^H^H^H^H that
<cyphermox> will go even better when images transition from pending to current *every* day
<seb128> right
<pjdelport> didrocks: I can probably wait until tomorrow. :) Will the release go to the PPA?
<seb128> cyphermox, there is a screensaver fix attached in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-release-upgrader/+bug/1565177
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1565177 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "screensaver is not disabled during release upgrade" [High,In progress]
<seb128> well that's for Ubuntu GNOME it seems
<didrocks> pjdelport: yeah, it will just be .3 ;)
<seb128> cyphermox, btw is nm 1.2 still a thing for xenial?
<cyphermox> seb128: only if someone has the time to fix up the FFE to make sure we're okay to land it -- I don't
<cyphermox> the uploads are ready though, except for one bug in nm-applet icons
<seb128> cyphermox, what needs to be fixed up in the ffe?
<cyphermox> well making sure we do have a valid FFE
<cyphermox> and that all the relevant teams have been notified by now
<seb128> didn't you have one filed?
<cyphermox> ie. translators and doc team and all
<cyphermox> it was filed a long time ago already
<cyphermox> but it also had not been approved yet
<seb128> :-/
 * seb128 tries to ask awe
<cyphermox> the bug is here: http://pad.lv/1552424
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1552424 in network-manager-vpnc (Ubuntu) "[FFE] NetworkManager 1.2-beta" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<seb128> willcooke, is the snappy meeting now or is my calendar off by one hour thanks to dst?
<seb128> hum, seems like kgunn just changed it
<willcooke> seb128, just seen, kgunn has moved it back 1hr cos the snappy team are unavailable
<seb128> "great"
<seb128> well, 1h from now should still work for me I guess
<mitya57> seb128, hi, I would very much like to get my two indicator-* branches from bug 1502480 merged before Xenial. The fixes are very simple and copied from indicator-session, maybe you can top-approve it (or know someone else who can do it)?
<ubot5`> bug 1502480 in indicator-sound (Ubuntu) "Sound Settings and Time & Date Settings did not launch during gnome-flashback session" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1502480
<seb128> charles, ^ can you help to get those landed?
<mitya57> I just need a top approve, after that I can land myself :P
<attente> mvo: hi, do you know where the docs are for the ubuntu store api?
<mitya57> Thanks seb128 :)
<seb128> mitya57, done, it might be nicer to move the is_unity as a function though, other sources do that iirc
<seb128> but up to you
<Laney> ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
<Laney> where did the software center get translated descriptions from?
<Laney> they sure aren't here http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/xenial/universe/i18n/
<mitya57> seb128, other sources use a function because they need it in several places, and here it's used only onceâ¦
<seb128> mitya57, k, fair enough
<seb128> Laney, I don't know either, mvo does I guess
<mvo> Laney: uh, what happend there, I uploaded updated descriptions a couple of times to xenial :/
<mvo> Laney: it should just use apt for the translationed descriptions
<seb128> mvo, I think they are looking at making gnome-software load those, so trying to figure out where the s-c was getting the data from
<Laney> hey mvo!
<mvo> Laney: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ddtp-translations/20160323.1 - its uploaded, I wonder why its not there
<Laney> they are supposed to go into the archive?
<mvo> Laney: anyway, I'm in a meeting, so lets talk in a little bit
<Laney> in dists/ I mean
<mvo> Laney: yes, absolutely, its a feature of apt
<Laney> nod
<mvo> Laney: worth asking on #launchpad
<seb128> laney, http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/trusty/universe/i18n/ had those
<seb128> so regression?
<mvo> I think so
<Laney> maybe
<mvo> then the translations can be loaded via the normal apt api
<mvo> transparently
<Laney> thinking about the dep11 extractor atm :)
<Laney> but also this would fix apt too
<superm1> attente: i did take a look on a real system now that everything has landed and those concerns i had seem to be founded.  i've put a bug here https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-software/+bug/1565865 . if you can discuss at some point this week during hackfest with hughsie and others about the right way to go about this would be appreciated
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1565865 in gnome-software (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu patches make applying firmware updates not possible" [Undecided,New]
<attente> superm1: thanks! i can ask him right now
<superm1> great thanks
<willcooke> cyphermox or maybe charles, do you know if there is a way to "fake" a full wifi signal strength?  For the battery you can use MockBattery is there anything like that for wifi signal?
<cyphermox> no idea, sorry
<cyphermox> go near a router?
<willcooke> :)
<cyphermox> :)
<willcooke> In Blue Fun it's pretty much impossible
<willcooke> maybe "take your computer home and do it" is the right answer
<cyphermox> well, you should have pretty high signal in Blue Fin anyway
<cyphermox> modulo the obvious high interference due to the gazillion other networks in range, of course
<willcooke> gimp to the rescue
<davmor2> willcooke: turn one device into a hotspot and stick it next to the other
<willcooke> davmor2, plan!
 * flocculant needs sleep - read hotspot as potplant 
<willcooke> hah!
<willcooke> pot plant.  aiiiight
<davmor2> willcooke: man you so street
<willcooke> davmor2, you win the prize. it worked
<davmor2> willcooke: you needed a way to test something do you not think I've already been there :)
<willcooke> :D
<ChrisTownsend> Hey All!  Is the official stance on the old Ubuntu Desktop Next still to download the regular Ubuntu ISO and install unity8-desktop-session-mir?
<willcooke> ChrisTownsend, yeah, no official desktop next image exists atm
<ChrisTownsend> willcooke: Ok, then I think I'm relegated to doing just that with unity8-lxc.
<ChrisTownsend> willcooke: Thanks for confirming
<willcooke> nw
<willcooke> morning robert_ancell
<robert_ancell> willcooke, hi
<mitya57> charles, thanks for the review! Ok, I'll refactor the MPs tomorrow to move that into separate functions. You convinced me :P
<charles> mitya57, thanks :)
<furkan> has anybody else lost their window borders/shadows in a bunch of gnome applications (e.g., gedit, calculator, nautilus, terminal) after a recent update?
<furkan> i understand that 16.04 is in beta, but please tell me that developers actually bother to test their packages for a few minutes before pushing them out?
<furkan> i mean, for something as simple as this...
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-04-05
<qengho> Sigh. If "bzr commit" ever adds a "-a" parameter that does something awful, them I am so so so screwed.
<TheMuso> 3~/c
<hikiko> Hi
<TheMuso> Hey hikiko.
<hikiko> :-)
 * ricotz wonders how the numerous harfbuzz releases were missed
<pitti> Good morning
 * TheMuso -> EOD.
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> had to make xchat-gnome accept invalid ssl to connect today
<seb128> ricotz, harfbuzz, easy, we follow Debian and they didn't update
<pitti> bonjour seb128 !
<seb128> salut pitti! Ã§a va bien ?
<pitti> seb128: oui, et toi ?
<seb128> trÃ¨s bien merci !
<willcooke> morning seb128 pitti
<pitti> hey willcooke!
<seb128> hey willcooke
<Laney> meow
<willcooke> morning Laney
 * pitti tosses some yarn to Laney
<seb128> hey Laney
<seb128> having fun in London?
<Laney> hey willcooke pitti seb128
<Laney> sunny today!
<Laney> I even left my coat back at the hotel
 * Laney is brave
<seb128> how long is the walk? ;-)
<Laney> reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally far
<seb128> :-(
<Laney> that's a lie
<Laney> it's like 2 minutes
<seb128> I was unsure
<seb128> got job Mr Lane, you got me :p
<seb128> watch you, next time it's my turn!
<seb128> got->good
<seb128> how is the hackfest otherwise? getting useful things for xenial in shape? ;-)
<seb128> did ximion convince you to take the new generator yet? ;-)
<Laney> yeah got to fix this extra 20 minutes of runtime that I added
<Laney> #fail
<Laney> not quite yet, I'll let him find all the bugs in debian first
<willcooke> anyone know about Macs, and specifically creating Ubuntu USB installers?
<willcooke> popey perhaps? ^
<davmor2> willcooke: there is a wiki page dedicated to it I think it is covered on there one second
 * seb128 bououou at willcooke
<willcooke> davmor2, right, the web team are asking me questions about it, and I know zero about Macs.  I've never used one
<willcooke> seb128, not booo!!  ^ ;D
<seb128> :-)
<seb128> good!
<willcooke> Do I look like I own a scarf?
<willcooke> ;p
 * seb128 pictures willcooke with a scarf
<seb128> no, doesn't really fit
<willcooke> lol
<seb128> willcooke, joke aside, http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop/create-a-usb-stick-on-mac-osx ?
<davmor2> willcooke: ah okay
<Laney> burning a CD
<willcooke> Questions are:
<willcooke> * do users need to install refind to work on newer macs?
<willcooke> * do users need to pre-partition their drives to run alongside mac?
<willcooke> * will mac osx updated mess up refind?
<Laney> good luck with that
<willcooke> I don't even know what a refind is
<willcooke> (also:  don't care)
<seb128> same here
<Laney> xnox: can you please look at glib2.0's tests on s390x? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/glib2.0/+bug/1561698
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1561698 in glib2.0 (Ubuntu) "Build hangs on s390x" [Undecided,New]
 * Laney is annoyed that they got disabled
<davmor2> willcooke: oh so this is installing it not having it on usb then
<willcooke> davmor2, installing it from USB
<davmor2> willcooke: you might not need refind on newer systems but the documentation still needs to be there for older macs https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MactelSupportTeam/AppleIntelInstallation you'd need someone with a new mac to test
<xnox> Laney, yes.
<Laney> thanks
<seb128> willcooke, http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/04/how-to-create-a-bootable-ubuntu-usb-on-windows-mac-and-linux
<seb128> seems they heard you
<willcooke> woah!
<willcooke> thanks seb128
<davmor2> willcooke: you mean you're not scared by the fact that a random reporter is righting articles on things that happen to be in your head (Start twilight zone music)
<willcooke> :)
<davmor2> writing even
<popey> willcooke: now ask how to win the lottery please
<willcooke> :D
<attente> seb128: willcooke: thinking about what to do re: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-software/+bug/1565865. is this something update-manager can handle or does it have to be gnome-software?
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1565865 in gnome-software (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu patches make applying firmware updates not possible" [High,New]
<willcooke> attente, thanks
<willcooke> it's a tricky one I expect
<attente> there are two issues as pointed out there: 1. we don't initiate the fwupd GetUpdates() and 2. we explicitly hide the "Restart & Install" button in GS
<attente> a simple solution might be to re-enable gnome-software's daemon mode and re-show the button
<willcooke> does that bring offline updates back in to play?
<attente> yes
<willcooke> seb128, thoughts? ^
<willcooke> fwupdate functionality is v. important
<Laney> we just discussed it and know what to do I think
<attente> yeah, we're going to revert those two commits, add functionality upstream to show the "restart & install" button with more appropriate text depending on what kind of updates are available
<willcooke> nice one, thanks attente Laney
<attente> an added advantage to leaving it running in the background is that a lot of those UI crashers might go away
<attente> (i suspect)
<Sweet5hark> seb128: as for libreoffice sponsoring: unless there is a desaster 5.1.2 rc2 will be declared final on thursday. I have the package ready already, so we should be good to go then ...
<Sweet5hark> aaand .... reviewed 14 patches upstream (merged 8).
<andyrock> Trevinho: https://code.launchpad.net/~azzar1/unity/lp-1552537/+merge/290976
<andyrock> Trevinho: do you want me to prepare a mp for unity/wily too?
<andyrock> Trevinho:
<andyrock> Trevinho: also for trusty
<seb128> Sweet5hark, great, let me know when it's good for upload
<Sweet5hark> seb128: willdo
<seb128> willcooke, attente, offline updates are not implemented in aptdaemon though?
<attente> seb128: does that mean we can't really implement this in gnome software anyways?
<seb128> attente, "this"?
<attente> seb128: aptdaemon not being able to do offline updates
<seb128> attente, I don't know how the firmware thing works
<seb128> superm1 probably knows better
<attente> i thought it was done through the fwupd service, but haven't really looked into it that much
<seb128> is that going through packagekit offline updates?
<seb128> k
<seb128> so maybe it's a different thing
<seb128> and we just need to reboot
<seb128> is fwupd doing its thing through a systemd job or such?
<seb128> or does it need to hit a special boot target?
<superm1> seb128: fwupd doesn't use package kit offline updates
<superm1> but that button for "update" issues updates for all the various gnome-software plugins
<seb128> superm1, how does fwupd work? does it detect files downloaded in a location when booting?
<seb128> or does it do it live from the active session?
<superm1> so in order to invoke the update it calls gs_plugin_app_update on all plugins: gs_plugin_app_update
<superm1> seb128: both
<superm1> depends on what kind of firmware you are updating
<superm1> UEFI firmware happens during next boot
<superm1> DFU and colorhug firmware are done immediately live
<seb128> k
<superm1> there will be more firmware types coming in future fwupd updates too
<seb128> well then it seems we don't need offline updates to get firmware updates
<seb128> but we need a way to show a reboot button when there is one of those pending reboot
<seb128> is that right?
<superm1> well but you still need 2 things
<superm1> 1) a way to tell it to download the updates
<superm1> that happens normally in the background as a refresh
<superm1> and I think that's what packagekit deems an offline update
<superm1> the file is fully cached and you hit the update button and everything is processed
<superm1> 2) a way to activate the update
<superm1> which is currently the update all buttn on the updates tab
<seb128> so what do we miss?
<seb128> from your bug description it looks like that the firmware update currently work but you need to
<seb128> - click manually on the refresh button
<seb128> - reboot once it's downloaded
<seb128> ?
<superm1> No, not fully correct
<superm1> the refresh button does cause them to download
<attente> apparently it's packagekit writing to /system-updates (?) and systemd on next boot is reading it to run some scripts to finish the installation
<superm1> No you still don't have a way to actually mark them for installation
<seb128> what does "marking them for installation" means in actual backend actions?
<superm1> That's what the update all button does
<seb128> k
<superm1> No you still don't have a way to actually mark them for installation
<seb128> so basically we would just need to display a button "reboot & apply firmware update" when there is one of those downloaded?
<superm1> No you still don't have a way to actually mark them for installation
<seb128> lol
<seb128> you said that 3 times now :p
<superm1> Incorrect, you still need a way to mark for installation
<seb128> hum
<superm1> seb128: incorrect, you still need a way to mark for installation
<seb128> wth?
<superm1> and that's what the update button does
<attente> :/
<seb128> right, I got that
<seb128> but does that action requires offline updates support in packagekit
<superm1> seb128: incorrect, you still need a way to mark for installation
<seb128> that's getting weird
<seb128> superm1, sorry, do you feel like I'm going in circle that you keep pasting the same thing again and again?
 * seb128 is a bit lost about what's going on there
<attente> seb128: yeah, i'm seeing it too
<seb128> attente, we don't do offline updates, but I guess we should re-label that button and display it when firmware updates are downloaded
<seb128> like change it from "Reboot & upgrade" to "Reboot & install new firmware"
<superm1> sorry for lots of messages, IRC seemed to drop me
<attente> seb128: why can't we do offline updates?
<seb128> attente, I'm guessing we can't, maybe I'm wrong
<seb128> attente, but my understanding was that we needed packagekit support
<seb128> and we
<superm1> yes
<seb128> - don't install packagekit
<seb128> - aptdaemon doesn't have support
<superm1> netsplit i think is going on
<seb128> - we would need to update packagekit from 0.8 to 1.0
<superm1> my messages not going through
<seb128> superm1, we can read them
<attente> ok. so what should we do re: the GS daemon and the button
<superm1> seb128: netsplit
<attente> because it seems like restoring that functionality still doesn't get us fwupd updates
<seb128> it doesn't?
<seb128> would be nice if superm1 was not lagging
<attente> sorry, offline updates i mean
<seb128> we don't care about offline updates
<superm1_not_auth> seb128: my IRC cloud is failing me
<seb128> hey superm1_not_auth
<superm1_not_auth> sorry for the repeated messages
<seb128> no worry
<seb128> we could read you
<seb128> but you seemed to lag
<attente> seb128: what should we do about https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-software/+bug/1565865?
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1565865 in gnome-software (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu patches make applying firmware updates not possible" [High,In progress]
<seb128> attente, I'm trying to understand the problem
<attente> superm1_not_auth: ^
<seb128> superm1_not_auth, do you still lag?
<seb128> or is that one ok?
<superm1_not_auth> on webchat.freenode.net i'm not lagging
<superm1_not_auth> this one is ok
<seb128> k, good
<attente> superm1_not_auth: it seems like even if we restore GS's run-in-background functionality, we still can't apply firmware updates
<superm1_not_auth> because?
<attente> without the packagekit offline update support
<Laney> ????????????????
<seb128> are those the same thing?
<superm1_not_auth> well packagekit isn't used for the firmware updates
<Laney> who said that?
<superm1_not_auth> just disable the package kit offline update functionality
<superm1_not_auth> but leave the button there
<seb128> what I suggested was
<seb128> we don't do offline updates, but I guess we should re-label that button and display it when firmware updates are downloaded
<seb128>  like change it from "Reboot & upgrade" to "Reboot & install new firmware"
<seb128> since that's what it would do
<seb128> it wouldn't apply package updates
<seb128> but firmware updates don't got through packagekit offline updates
<superm1_not_auth> yeah that would work too
<seb128> they go through fwupd
<Laney> we said that here this morning
<Laney> why this discussion?
<superm1_not_auth> attente: firmware updates are applied via the fwupd's plugin methods for update: https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-software/tree/src/plugins/gs-plugin-fwupd.c#n744
<seb128> Laney, attente seems confused ... aren't you guys at the same hackfest?
<Laney> yes
<Laney> I'm wondering why this current confusion is happening
<Laney> because he knew what to do earlier
<attente> maybe i don't understand... because i thought applying the firmware updates required an offline update
<seb128> I don't think they do
<Laney> via a different mechanism
<Laney> not a packagekit one
<attente> what's the alternative mechanism?
<Laney> fwupd
<superm1_not_auth> they behave "simliarly" to packatekit offline updates in that they get downloaded in the background from the refresh mechanism
<seb128> call the fwupd method
<seb128> and trigger a normal reboot
<seb128> if I understood correctly
<seb128> that doesn't rely on the packagekit offline update target
<superm1_not_auth> Yep
<superm1_not_auth> correct
<seb128> good
<seb128> so yeah, just relabel the button
<seb128> and display it only when a firware has been downloaded
<seb128> not when there are normal deb/snap updates
<seb128> and we should be good
<seb128> attente, Laney, I guess you are sorting it out by direct talk and it's all good now?
<Laney> :X
<pitti> didrocks: oh, so that ffmpeg issue was a seccomp restriction in snappy after all?
<pitti> didrocks: not helpful that this doesn't get logged in dmesg anywhere :/
<ogra_> hmm, seccomp denials usually go to syslog
<didrocks> pitti: the issue was on vlc
<didrocks> pitti: ffmepg was another one
<didrocks> (many others ;))
<pitti> ah, ok; it sounded very close to what you were looking into a few weeks ago
<didrocks> yeah, but I'm having this issue without any security filtering
<didrocks> like install an ubuntu server, run the command -> works
<didrocks> put the exact same command as a systemd service -> fails
<didrocks> so, it's really systemd-related, no apparmor/seccomp here
<didrocks> (or not snappy related)
<pitti> ah right, I remember, you tracked that down to missing $HOME or so
<didrocks> it's not that one, in the end
<didrocks> (it was when I tried to sneak the users, but in the end, unrelated)
<didrocks> really, it's systemd doing something I don't understand
<didrocks> but well, not enough time to spend more time on this and didn't really get any help on this, so abandonned :/
<pitti> didrocks: I'm less ridiculously swamped now, so if this is important for something and you need me to take a look, please sub me to the bug report
<didrocks> pitti: ah, excellent! will do then (but in a week, leaving for holidays tomorrow midday)
<pitti> didrocks: oh, profiter tes vacances ! oÃ¹ allez-vous voyager ?
<didrocks> pitti: en Ireland !
<didrocks> merci :)
<pitti> didrocks: trÃ¨s bien ! Dublin aussi ?
<pitti> nous connaisons Dublin de quelques UDSes
<pitti> mais peut-Ãªtre Julie ne le connait pas
<didrocks> pitti: oui, Dublin et l'ouest :) (non, Julie ne connait pas du tout)
<seb128> didrocks, vous partez combien de temps ?
<didrocks> seb128: une semaine (on revient mercredi en 8)
<seb128> cool, profitez en bien !
<didrocks> merci ;)
<larsu> hello friends :)
<Laney> hey larsu
<Laney> we were talking about you earlier
 * Laney wept
<Laney> how's it going?!?!?!?!
<larsu> Laney: awww, sorry :)
<Laney> I was trying to get attente to ask you something :P
<larsu> very good! Fighting launchpad right now and thought of you :P
<ogra_> larsu, you could fix that ;)
<Laney> ahhhhhh nice
<larsu> hehe
<larsu> Laney: he can still ask me, I'm around
<seb128> oh, larsu!
<larsu> seb128! Ãa va?
<seb128> trÃ¨s bien, et toi ?
<larsu> nickel, merci!
<larsu> setting up a ppa for the first time in my life
<Laney> haha
<larsu> which is strange.... considering
<seb128> oh
<Laney> I love how this happens after you leave
<larsu> yeah
<Laney> soon you'll be getting upload rights
<seb128> you leave our team and then start doing packaging? ;-)
<pitti> heeeeeey larsu! wie gehts?
<larsu> it doesn't like me anymore
<larsu> and doesn't build anything for me
<larsu> but probably I'm just doing something stupid
<Laney> sounds like packaging
<larsu> pitti: hey! Sehr gut danke! How are you?
<pitti> larsu: very well, tahnks
<larsu> seb128: on the side ;) I kind of want to drive getting cockpit into debian and have a ppa for people to try in ubuntu
<larsu> seb128: (I am still running ubuntu, too ;) )
<seb128> larsu, if you have packaging questions feel free to ask, we have a few people around knowing about that ;-)
<larsu> seb128: the package works (but could be "improved" according to a dd who is helping out a bit)
<larsu> seb128: but launchpad doesn't do anything when I dput a source package
<larsu> not even an email telling me what I did wrong
<seb128> where do you dput to?
<larsu> I tried ~cockpit-project/ubuntu/cockpit
<seb128> syntax?
<Laney> I use ppa:user/ppa
<larsu> I put that into .dput.cf
<Laney> dput ppa:laney/ppa blah_source.changes
<larsu> like it says on https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA/Uploading
<Laney> works with the default configuration
<larsu> does launchpad require some things? It's a native package right now...
<seb128> no
<larsu> and I haven't signed it (missing the cockpit private key on my machine)
<larsu> but dput has a "allow_unsigend_uploads" option, so I guess that should work...
<Laney> nein
<Laney> launchpad requires it to be signed
<larsu> ah!
<larsu> damn
<Laney> by the key of someone in the team which owns the ppa
<didrocks> weird that you didn't get email from this though
<didrocks> maybe to avoid spamming
<seb128> yeah
<didrocks> hey larsu :)
<Laney> not weird
<larsu> and can I dput it even though it's for debian unstable? Or do I have to change the distribution?
<Laney> it would email the person that signed it
<seb128> you might want to ask on #launchpad if that's normal
 * didrocks dput to ppa:laney/blah
<larsu> didrocks: hello! How are you?
<Laney> but if nobody then nobody to email
<larsu> ugh
<didrocks> larsu: busy as hell, but okish, tomorrow is holidays! :)
<seb128> larsu, you need to use an ubuntu serie
<seb128> otherwise launchpad wouldn't know what distro to target
<larsu> Laney, seb128: thanks a lot
<seb128> xenial? trusty?
 * larsu could have figured..
<larsu> seb128: hm, so I need to maintain two debian dirs?
<seb128> larsu, you can probably hack the .changes
<seb128> have a script to do that for you
<Laney> you can override this when uploading to ppas
<Laney> it's under "Using packages from other distributions"
<Laney> but I don't know if that works with the ppa: syntax
<larsu> ah
<larsu> thanks
<larsu> it's a bit confusing
<larsu> it will be even more when I try to do this automatically from the release scripts, because they run on fedora machines ;)
<larsu> which have all the packaging things for debian, which is awesome, but not dput
<Laney> probably possible to build dput there
<larsu> yeah it's not big
 * Laney just unfucked appstream.ubuntu.com
<Laney> OOOOOOOOOOOOOPS
<Laney> ah only one of the machines
<Laney> This Is Devops
<seb128> lol
<larsu> haha
 * larsu misses this channel
<larsu> should come by more often
<seb128> indeed you should!
<Laney> larsu: I'm in the redhat london office atm
<Laney> cool snacks here
<larsu> oh cool! How is that?
<larsu> and ........... why?
<seb128> don't get used to the haribo too much
<Laney> pretty nice
<Laney> gnome-software sprint
<larsu> oh nice! Who's around?
<Laney> the reception people at the ground floor leave at 6pm
<seb128> larsu doesn't read g+ :p
<Laney> so we had to go down to the loading area and leave through some shady door
<larsu> seb128: that thing still exists? :P
<larsu> Laney: haha - did you hack all night again like in Brussels?
<seb128> larsu, https://plus.google.com/u/1/+RobertAncell/posts/ZQ4ge5C86fy?pid=6269736736094251298&oid=117099795522230536585
<seb128> can see Laney!
<seb128> and he's smilling
<Laney> aruiz and attente and kalev and hughsie and ximion and jrocha and alex and ramcq and some others
<Laney> yeah those guys
<seb128> Laney, did you guys hide attente's cokes for the picture?
<larsu> oh how cool!
<larsu> seb128: lol
<Laney> he's been on the tango so far
<ogra_> so the talk about weeping over larsu was all lies ?!?
<seb128> :-)
<Laney> the weeping was in person
<Laney> in borough market over a pieminister
<larsu> ogra_: never trust Laney's weeping
<ogra_> :)
<larsu> aww
<Laney> not enough salt in those things
<seb128> Laney, so the tango thing explains why attente got confused over the offline updates thing
<seb128> he needs the real drink
<attente> seb128: now the tango thing is confusing me
<seb128> because you though you were drinking something else? ;-)
<attente> wait a minute. this isn't a coke
<seb128> lol
<larsu> attente! What's up?
<attente> larsu: hey, in your office :P
 * larsu looks around
<seb128> larsu, quick, put a tshirt on!
<seb128> working from home ftw :p
<larsu> seb128: was just in a video call, so I'm already wearing a shirt ;)
<larsu> but pants..........
<attente> lol
<seb128> :-)
 * Laney thinks pants are something else
 * Laney goes blind
<larsu> trousers?!
<Laney> phew
<willcooke> laney, attente - you guys around for the meeting?  I'm expecting not.
<willcooke> also LARSU!!
<willcooke> glad you can make the meeting :)
<qengho> Put larsu in the queue.
<willcooke> :D
<larsu> willcooke: hi man! How are you?
<larsu> haha
<willcooke> larsu, ya know, gettin' by
<willcooke> :)
 * larsu slowly steps away from the keyboard
<willcooke> no trousers required for our meetings
<larsu> how about shirts?
<willcooke> nope, free and easy
<willcooke> #startmeeting Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-04-05
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Apr  5 15:31:11 2016 UTC.  The chair is willcooke. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-04-05 | Current topic:
<willcooke> Roll call:  andyrock (classes), attente (sprint), desrt (hols),  dgadomski (out), fjkong, happyaron, hikiko (out), laney (sprint), qengho, seb128, sweet5hark, themuso (out), tkamppeter, trevinho, robert_ancell (out)
<seb128> hey!
<Sweet5hark> heya
<larsu> o/
<Trevinho> yay
<Trevinho> :)
<seb128> oh, good morning Trevinho!
<Trevinho> seb128: lol :-D
<willcooke> Gonna skip over laney and attente since they're busy
<Trevinho> seb128: i actually got awake quite early this morning...
<willcooke> so on to...
<willcooke> #topic andyrock
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-04-05 | Current topic: andyrock
<willcooke> # I've been working to use Alt+space to open the Hud. Atm I'm
<willcooke> refactoring a bit libwnck to make it possible to get a GMenuModel
<willcooke> instead of a GtkMenu for the window menu.
<willcooke> # Proposed a branch to fix a bug that allow to unlock legacy
<willcooke> lockscreen (gnome-screensaver running on unity) without password
<willcooke> # Reviews
<willcooke> #topic fjkong
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-04-05 | Current topic: fjkong
<happyaron> hey
<willcooke> Hmm, no fjkong
<willcooke> #topic happyaron
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-04-05 | Current topic: happyaron
<willcooke> hey happyaron!
<willcooke> this time sucks for you guys now even more than it did
<happyaron> can I write a bit later? still typing...
<willcooke> happyaron, sure
<happyaron> ty!
<willcooke> #topic hikiko
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-04-05 | Current topic: hikiko
<willcooke> * ezoom:
<willcooke> - done: I fixed the transformations needed to switch coordinate systems and apply the compiz ezoom scale and translation in the unity space. As a result, the desktop components get the correct position and scale.
<willcooke> - in progress: I try to fix the artifacts that are caused by the way we damage regions and rectangles before drawing. The components are transformed but the regions and rectangles we damage on nux/unity side are not and so, only parts of them are redrawn. The proper way to fix the problem is to transform the dirty regions and rectangles too using the scale factors and translations we extract from compiz. As a first and easier approac
<willcooke> h, I mark the whole screen as dirty every time that we have a non identity ezoom transformation (=> we have scaled and moved the desktop) so that the whole screen is redrawn. When I fix all the artifacts with that approach, I am going to optimize that code and add the proper transformations for the regions/rectangles.
<willcooke> EOF
<willcooke> #topic qengho
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-04-05 | Current topic: qengho
<willcooke> he was here a moment ago, suspect lagging
<willcooke> hey FJKong
<FJKong> hi
<willcooke> #topic FJKong
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-04-05 | Current topic: FJKong
<FJKong> coding and testing skin for new feature
<FJKong> half day for going to Embassy of Czech handing material
<FJKong> one day holiday
<FJKong> that's all
<willcooke> is the visa all ok FJKong?
<andyrock> hey all
<willcooke> hey andyrock, I did yours for you.  That was a quick class :)
<seb128> hey andyrock
<FJKong> willcooke: yes
<willcooke> great!
<FJKong> waiting for it
<willcooke> qengho, when you're back, shout
<willcooke> #topic seb128
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-04-05 | Current topic: seb128
<seb128> was on holiday, back since yesterday, mostly backlog
<seb128> </monday>
<willcooke> :)
<willcooke> thanks seb128
<seb128> yw!
<willcooke> #topic seb128
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-04-05 | Current topic: seb128
<willcooke> er
<seb128> was on holiday, back since yesterday, mostly backlog
<seb128> :p
<willcooke> lololol
<willcooke> #topic Sweet5hark
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-04-05 | Current topic: Sweet5hark
<Sweet5hark> - regression fixes
<Sweet5hark> - code reviews and patch merging
<Sweet5hark> - put doko changes for dropping jdk in git
<Sweet5hark> - prepared bump to LibreOffice 5.1.2 in xenial this week (ready)
<Sweet5hark> EOF
<willcooke> thanks Sweet5hark
<willcooke> #topic TheMuso
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-04-05 | Current topic: TheMuso
<willcooke> * Started implementing a solution for 16.04 to allow mate and GNOME to have accessibility profiles. I've created new profiles for each environment, and packaged them separately, so those profiles for that single environment will be seeded and installed separately, but are co-installable. Its not optimal, but doesn't require any new code other than in ubiquity, and even then the code changes are 2 lines or so.
<willcooke> * Was informed about, and reproduced an issue with USB braille displays not functioning when connected. Have started debugging, will resume once a11y profile work above is done.
<willcooke> #topic tkamppeter
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-04-05 | Current topic: tkamppeter
<tkamppeter> - cups-filters: PDFs withh filled forms (and other non-static things in PDF) do not print correctly directly, print only from evince or similar. Investigated the case and possible solutions via Ghostscript (works, but not good for mobile) and Poppler (needs more deveopment, Poppler has no PDF output).
<tkamppeter> - Auto-downloadable printer drivers: Working on how to replace the removed LSB support.
<tkamppeter> - Phone: The Upstart overrides for printing are merged in now.
<tkamppeter> - Bugs.
<willcooke> thanks tkamppeter
<willcooke> #topic Trevinho
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-04-05 | Current topic: Trevinho
<Trevinho> Â· Fixed frame extents request causing windows mis-placing (Java apps mostly)
<Trevinho> Â· Fixed unity script to support upstart-managed unity7
<Trevinho> Â· Improved the caching for unity textures
<Trevinho> Â· Added support for loading from themes all the unity textures
<Trevinho> Â· Various dash/hud resizing improvements
<Trevinho> Â· Improved BAMF child views signals
<Trevinho> Â· Reviews
<Trevinho> Â· Did a new bamf/compiz/unity landing
<willcooke> thanks Trevinho
<willcooke> #topic robert_ancell
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-04-05 | Current topic: robert_ancell
<willcooke> - GNOME Software fixes / improvements
<willcooke> - appstream-glib update
<willcooke> - LightDM 1.18.1 release
<willcooke> - LightDM bug triaging
<willcooke> #topic happyaron
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-04-05 | Current topic: happyaron
<happyaron> 1. translation stuff, continued from last week
<happyaron> 2. sogoupinyin: 1) new build for the libstdc++ change 2) new dict db 3) reconfirm status with new PM
<happyaron> 3. update packages for ubuntukylin
<happyaron> 4. sru: open-gram
<happyaron> EOF
<willcooke> thanks happyaron
<willcooke> #topic qengho
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-04-05 | Current topic: qengho
<willcooke> are you back with us qengho
<seb128> ...
<willcooke> strange
<willcooke> #topic any other business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-04-05 | Current topic: any other business
<willcooke> Sprint is fast approaching.  My mail re: lightning talks... is that something you guys are happy to do?
<willcooke> I will assume yes.
<willcooke> great!
<qengho> sorry!  one sec.
<willcooke> #topic qengho
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-04-05 | Current topic: qengho
<qengho> - snap for chromium, and snappy and snapcraft hacking.
<qengho> ^ that's prety much it.
<willcooke> thanks qengho
<willcooke> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-04-05 | Current topic: AOB
<willcooke> The upgrade issue from 14.04 -> 16.04 is mostly squashed now I think.  I did a successful upgrade yesterday. Thanks to everyone who help with tracking that down
<seb128> small presentations of what we did this cycle could be good, worth giving it a try ;-)
<seb128> @upgrade, great news!
<meetingology> seb128: Error: "upgrade," is not a valid command.
<willcooke> ha
<willcooke> Anyone got anything the want to share?
<seb128> not me
<willcooke> oki
<willcooke> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Apr  5 15:48:14 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2016/ubuntu-desktop.2016-04-05-15.31.moin.txt
<willcooke> thanks all
<seb128> thanks
<willcooke> attente, is there an "update all" button in g-s?
<willcooke> as in, I see I have 11 updates but I can't be bothered to update them 1 by 1
<willcooke> I know we have software updater for that job, but just wondering
<attente> willcooke: yes, but we disable it because that's also for offline updates
<willcooke> ah, right
<attente> willcooke: i'm working on fixing this now though
<willcooke> cool! thanks attente
<Laney> RIGHT NOW
<Laney> I just looked over his shoulder and saw this
<willcooke> :D
<willcooke> seb128, notebook themeing, specifically for Terminal...
<seb128> willcooke, why being specific?
<willcooke> the actions bar is the thing on the right hand side which has a + icon and a drop down for choosing the active tab
<willcooke> it's a bit buggy
<willcooke> and seems to have hard-coded paddings
<seb128> :-/
<willcooke> I cant get it to look nice
<willcooke> and I'd quite like to just get rid of it.
<willcooke> Wondered what you thought
<willcooke> IMO, it's not useful enough to live with the ugly it causes
<willcooke> and the theme headaches
<willcooke> and I have a patch to get rid of it ;)
<willcooke> I say patch, I commented out one line
<seb128> getting rid of the padding? or the buttons?
<willcooke> the buttons and the whole "actions bar"
<seb128> I never use it but I'm unsure how representative that is
<willcooke> well, 100% of people I asked dont care for it
<willcooke> ;D
<seb128> did you ask me only? ;-)
<willcooke> what?
<willcooke> I have to go now
<willcooke> ;))
<seb128> lol
<seb128> maybe Laney and larsu have an opinion on that?
<willcooke> seb128, I'll send you a couple of screenshots about it
<seb128> just listing people who actually touched to that project code/interacted with upstream recently
<larsu> actions bar?
<seb128> larsu, the icons on the right of the tabs in g-t it seems
<seb128> the + for new tab
<larsu> ah, I think that's also used for overflowing when there are too many tabs
<seb128> with the dropdown
<larsu> would be bad if you can't access those anymore
<larsu> we should make the '+' symbolic, maybe
<seb128> willcooke, ^ good point
<willcooke> ah yes
<larsu> ah, no, it still overflows with < and > buttons
<Laney> but you can't read the titles then
<larsu> I think I like that menu though
<Laney> so the dropdown is useful
<larsu> I seldom use it, but when I do, I'm *really* happy it's there
<larsu> yeah exactly Laney
<Laney> I wouldn't mess with it at this point personally
<larsu> willcooke: what exactly is hardcoded?
<willcooke> larsu, some padding around the buttons I think
<larsu> oh, you're leaving :/
<willcooke> nah, I was messing with Seb
<larsu> ah :)
<larsu> do you want to make the whole bar thinner?
<larsu> looks like the padding comes from the height of the tab bar
<Laney> there is some hardcoded padding and margin around those buttons
<willcooke> http://imgur.com/xlNQXRb
<willcooke> you can see the + icon bleeding over on to the tab
<willcooke> (dont worry about the colours)
<willcooke> if you want to try the css in the inspector:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/15633442
<larsu> oohh
<willcooke> I wonder if I can work around it by making the :last tab have a bigger border
<larsu> good question...
<larsu> looks to me like the button is drawn over the tab bar, without respect to the size of the tab's css box
<willcooke> yeah
<larsu> do you know how adwaita handles this?
<willcooke> I don't know what the CSS looks like, but it has a bigger space between the last tab and the actions bar
<larsu> ah, probably that makes this a non-issue for them
<larsu> is that too ugly for us to copy?
<larsu> ("us" hehe)
<willcooke> :)
<willcooke> trying to work out how to do that in CSS now...
<larsu> does giving the last tab a margin work?
<willcooke> just trying
<willcooke> why wont my selector work?!?!?!?!?
<larsu> welcome to css :(
<larsu> willcooke: could ne that pseudo selectors don't work on tabs yet
<larsu> there was a lot of work in 3.20 to make stuff like this work
<willcooke> s'probably me
<willcooke> meh
<willcooke> the odd selector works, but last does not
<willcooke> so maybe its a bug
<willcooke> and margin does nothing
<qengho> willcooke: will you debug my wordpress site next?
<qengho> (Hah hah)
<willcooke> :D sure.  Hope you like pictures of cats
<qengho> Dang
<Laney> willcooke: do you know when the community wallpapers are going to appear?
<willcooke> Laney, I'll chase nhaines now...
<Laney> thx
<willcooke> he's not on IRC, so I've emailed
<willcooke> thanks for the reminder
<Laney> no worries
<Laney> something made it appear in my brain box
<willcooke> heh
<willcooke> ok, so it's not padding on the tab
<willcooke> it's padding on the .notebook itself
<willcooke> .notebook {padding-right: 3px}
<willcooke> fixes the overlap
<willcooke> but introduces extra padding on the rest of the notebook, so that all the way down the right hand side of the page there is now a 3px padding
<seb128> :-/
<willcooke> I might try and fix it in the code
<willcooke> shit's gettin real now
 * sarnold takes off his sunglasses
<willcooke> lol
<willcooke> ha, oddly appropriate.. http://i.imgur.com/P83qejg.gifv
<larsu> haha
<larsu> *scary*
<sarnold> why is a -guy- holding that down?
<sarnold> don't they have heavy things there that aren't alive?
<willcooke> :))
<larsu> the first thing I wondered was why there's a guy throwing that in the first place...
<sarnold> huhn. I didn't think to question that.
<larsu> wouldn't be a gif if that hadn't happened, eh? ;)
<sarnold> hehe :)
<dobey> lol
<dobey> i guess a heavy object holding the mower down possibly wouldn't also be able to hold the throttle open
 * dobey wonders how to make empathy combine contacts
<willcooke> night all
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-04-06
<seb128> good morning desktops
<pitti> Good morning
<seb128> hey pitti ;-)
<larsu> seb128: no good morning for the laptops?
<larsu> :P
<larsu> morning everyone!
<pitti> hey larsu, wie gehts?
<larsu> pitti: morgen! Sehr gut. War gerade beim Fitness und bin durch die Sonne zurÃ¼ck gefahren. Im Shirt!!!
<larsu> wie gehts dir?
<pitti> larsu: prima, danke! keine Sonne mehr heute, aber immer noch warm
<larsu> schade :(
<seb128> larsu, hey :-)
<seb128> bah
<seb128> it's sunny here as well but they forecast rain starting midday for the afternoon/evening
<larsu> don't believe the forecast!
<seb128> that's right
<seb128> well for now I see blue sky and sun so I'm happy ;-)
<willcooke> morning all
<Sweet5hark> moin
<willcooke> morning Sweet5hark
<Sweet5hark> willcooke: heya
<seb128> hey willcooke Sweet5hark
<Sweet5hark> seb128: how is it going? are you at a/that sprint btw?
<seb128> Sweet5hark, I'm doing well thanks, got mostly over the holidays backlog and back on track for 16.04 I think ... and no, no hackfest for me, getting a week to get some work done before holidays and travelling for the planning sprint
<seb128> what about you?
<Sweet5hark> trying to get my back back it shape -- it was hurting badly recent days, its better now. as for work: xenial looks all well AFAICS -- lets see how stuff will get amazing after that ;)
<pitti> hey Sweet5hark
<pitti> Sweet5hark: urgh, good luck with your back, that sounds scary
<pitti> Sweet5hark: too much exercise or too much sitting?
<Sweet5hark> pitti: too much bad sitting apparently and then hurt myself by being too hard on myself when swimming.
<Sweet5hark> ... but jogging helps. doing that daily now.
 * Laney is free
<Laney> free from the dmb
<seb128> Laney, congrats? ;-)
<seb128> and hey!
<seb128> still enjoying London?
<larsu> dmb?
<davidcalle> @dekstopers, hi, I'm looking for an ubiquity slideshow slide (the Gnome Software one), where is it located?
<meetingology> davidcalle: Error: "dekstopers," is not a valid command.
<willcooke> hey davidcalle
<willcooke> davidcalle, have you got the ubiquity source downloaded already?
<davidcalle> willcooke: nope, I was expecting to find it somewhere on my xenial system  :)
<seb128> larsu, devmemberboard, the group that grants e.g upload rights
<willcooke> davidcalle, https://launchpad.net/ubiquity
<willcooke> err
<willcooke> wrong
<willcooke> davidcalle, correct link:  https://launchpad.net/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu
<larsu> seb128: thanks :)
<seb128> larsu, yw!
<willcooke> davidcalle, then: ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/slideshows/ubuntu/slides
<willcooke> usc.html
<seb128> davidcalle, willcooke, did we get an agreement on what to use there?
<davidcalle> willcooke: perfect, thanks :)
<davidcalle> seb128: not sure. But on my end, I just need a nice screenshot ;)
<willcooke> seb128, seems to still be pending.  I went with not mentioned g-s at all and instead talking about "access to the store"
<willcooke> davidcalle, if those screenshots are too small we can find you a better one
<willcooke> davidcalle, e.g. http://people.canonical.com/~laney/weird-things/g-s.png
<davidcalle> willcooke: this one is perfect, thanks!
<willcooke> nw
<seb128> willcooke, davidcalle, didn't we get those screenshots updated some weeks ago?
<willcooke> seb128, yeah
<seb128> ah
<seb128> davidcalle is looking for a screenshot, not at changing the current one?
<davidcalle> seb128: yeah, I jsut need a screenshot matching roughly how we are presenting Gnome software to users
<seb128> k, gotcha
<Laney> hey seb128
<Laney> yeah!
<Laney> raining today though
 * Laney might actually look at g-s itself
<Laney> noticed the list of nominees to the TB
<Laney> lots of good candidates there ;-)
<didrocks> where is this list? (hey Laney!)
<Laney> didrocks: on the tb list
<seb128> on planet ubuntu as well
<didrocks> oh right, this was posted
<didrocks> ah, the fridge, I probably bypassed it :)
<seb128> Laney, good candidates, rrrright
<seb128> wonder who nominated those!
<Laney> teehee
<cyphermox> morning
<willcooke> hey cyphermox
<seb128> hey cyphermox!
<cyphermox> hey :)
<seb128> cyphermox, did you see that awe seemed to have found the issue with new nm and vpn?
<cyphermox> great
<willcooke> urgh. Another odd bug in terminal
<willcooke> open a few tabs, cd to somewhere with a longish path
<willcooke> then drag that tab out of the window and don't let go of the button
 * flocculant did that and is pleased it looks as expected here :p
<flexiondotorg> Trevinho, https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mate-dev/compiz/fix-1559371/+merge/289588
 * Trevinho checks
<Trevinho> flexiondotorg: I'd really love to have the client fixed though... Also changing the mate.ini later couldn't cause the setting not to be updated by upgraders?
<willcooke> seb128, just noticed the padding on the bluetooth window (for example) is gone again.  Didn't we already fix that?  I think it was an u/s bug?
<willcooke> maybe it was called a wizard screen?
<seb128> willcooke, wfm, where do you see it?
<willcooke> a new 16.04 install from the daily iso  yesterday
<seb128> if I go to the bluetooth panel and click the "+" button the new dialog has space between the buttons and border
<flexiondotorg> Trevinho, I'd like the client fixed too. But small team, little time and no obvious solution. This winrule is the best we have.
<Trevinho> flexiondotorg: I understand, you tried to check what happens if that mate.ini option is removed? Is the option unset (for future use case)
<seb128> willcooke, it was a gtk bug that got fixed, the patch is still there afaik and wfm
<flexiondotorg> Trevinho, Compiz is not enable by default in Ubuntu MATE. It can be optionally enabled via MATE Tweak.
<flexiondotorg> New activations will use whatever the mate.ini provides.
<willcooke> seb128, ah, buttons look ok actually.  Seems to be the text on the left: http://imgur.com/glJoTXC
<flexiondotorg> But MATE Tweak also has a button to reset Compiz to mate.ini defaults, should an updated mate.ini be released.
<seb128> willcooke, I can't confirm here but my virtualbox has no bluetooth and my system is in french so not having the same labels lead to a layout things differently
<willcooke> I dont think its that big a deal, I'll see if I can fix it
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> I'm unsure it's a theming issue though
<seb128> you had another example of dialog last time iirc
<seb128> what was it? something with nm?
<willcooke> yeah, I thnk it was vpns or something
<willcooke> I'll see if I get time
<willcooke> nw
<seb128> ah, right
<seb128> adding a mobile connection
<seb128> k, I can confirm in that dialog
<seb128> I've a feeling it's due to https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/commit/gtk/ui/gtkassistant.ui?id=9c39232ab399eb3138fa4924b6072c3d340c215e
<darkxst> willcooke, are you guys considering rebranding gnome-software this late in the cycle? atleast that is the impression I got from Michaels email
<willcooke> mhall119, can I get a copy of that email?
<seb128> darkxst, "rebranding"?
<davidcalle> seb128: where does the feature app comes from in gnome software? Gnome server somewhere?
<seb128> there are discussions about the wording of the ubiquity slide
<seb128> davidcalle, I don't know, but we have people at a hackfest who know and are working on changing that list I think ... why? please don't dup work by looking also at doing similar changes
<seb128> davidcalle, in any case please talk to Laney on this channel, he mentioned that on the first day of the hackfest so I guess he's the person to talk to about those changes
<davidcalle> seb128: I'm not, no worries, just looking if there was a way to change this featured app locally. Nothing related with the wider GNome Software discussion ;)
<darkxst> willcooke, i sent you a copy
<seb128> willcooke, we might need something like https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/tree/gtk/theme/Adwaita/_common.scss#n225 ?
<seb128> davidcalle, k, Laney can help you with that I think
<davidcalle> thanks
<seb128> darkxst, there are discussions about the wording of the slide as just said and maybe naming of the .desktop under Unity
<willcooke> darkxst, ta
<seb128> darkxst, no changing of the look/branding of the software
<darkxst> seb128, thats fine, and not I would consider rebranding
<mhall119> willcooke: darkxst: which email?
<seb128> willcooke, if you play with css maybe look if something around the
<seb128> GtkAssistant {
<seb128> .sidebar GtkLabel {
<seb128> padding: 6px;
<seb128> would fix it?
<darkxst> mhall119, the snap email, where you suggested gnome-software might be rebranded, but apparently that is not the case actually
<mhall119> darkxst: ok, that. It's actually not branded "GNOME Software" right now, it's just "Software", we put that in because we weren't sure how it was going to be called
<larsu> the "using packages from other distributions" section on https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA/Uploading could use some clarification: the url should probably say ~<lp_name>/<ppa_name>/ubuntu/<a ubuntu suite>
<larsu> at least it confused me :)
<davmor2> willcooke: OMG an upgrade and it seems to be working this can't be right :)
<willcooke> davmor2, It'll never last.
<willcooke> quick pull the plug
<darkxst> mhall119, ok, so long as its only Unity specific desktop files, I couldnt care what you call it
<darkxst> we have already made our slideshows, and our users are expect GNOME "Software" not some other name ;)
<mhall119> darkxst: I think this was more a case of the community team not knowing what name to use for it than anything
<seb128> larsu, open a bug against launchpad ;-)
<davmor2> willcooke: it's got time to break on the mokutil yet something to blame cyphermox for again cause you know how he likes me to blame him for stuff :)
<mhall119> since we've always heard it called "GNOME Software" but the app itself only uses the name "Software"
<mhall119> and we know that non-GNOME flavors are also using it
<cyphermox> what what ? mokutil broken?
<darkxst> mhall119, all the core GNOME apps are like that
<larsu> seb128: thanks, will do (didn't know where the correct place would be...)
<mhall119> darkxst: yeah, it causes some confusion :)
<seb128> darkxst, not really, we don't have "GNOME gedit" or "GNOME nautilus"
<darkxst> seb128, ok all the newer GNOME apps are like that
<darkxst> photos, maps, music, logs, etc
<seb128> right, I don't think we include any of those on Unity default install atm
<larsu> seb128: done, #1566839
<seb128> larsu, danke
<darkxst> and then the oddball epiphany => web
<darkxst> but its all just desktop file tinkering
<darkxst> and the lack of security support makes the latter rather irrelevant I guess
<seb128> yeah
<darkxst> otherwise it would be a really nice browser
<davmor2> cyphermox: not yet
<davmor2> cyphermox: is the kernel code in play now that disables the modules if secureboot isn't enabled
<cyphermox> davmor2: not yet
<davmor2> cyphermox: right thanks
<flexiondotorg> TheMuso, Thanks for the a11y work.
<flexiondotorg> Can I just confirm what packages I need to seed?
<flexiondotorg> TheMuso, just a11y-profile-manager and a11y-profile-manager-indicator?
<willcooke> flexiondotorg, might be better by email, he's UTC+12
<flexiondotorg> willcooke, Ah. OK, thanks :-)
<andyrock> willcooke: looks like we don't need to modify any unity code to support alt+space
<andyrock> we just need to modify the key binding
<willcooke> andyrock, sweet!  How about the two modifiers issue?  Are we stuck there?
<andyrock> willcooke: ccsm partially support them
<willcooke> if so I will see what the alternatives are from design etc
<GunnarHj> pitti: Hi Martin! Regression from yesterday's fontconfig upload. Can you please take a look at bug #1566651.
<ubot5`> bug 1566651 in fontconfig (Ubuntu) "Blurry fonts after update to fontconfig 2.11.1-0ubuntu9" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1566651
<andyrock> also i experiences some problems showing that menu with alt+super
<andyrock> *ed
<willcooke> andyrock, partially meaning that it will be really buggy and crap?
<willcooke> right
<willcooke> oki
<willcooke> lemme see if I can get a better choice then...
<andyrock> like if you press two times super+alt you can get stuck with that menu
<andyrock> :D
<willcooke> erk
<willcooke> oki
<andyrock> willcooke: the branch for lp:hud has already been proposed I'll finish the bamf one today
<andyrock> do you have the bug number?
<willcooke> andyrock, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1551986
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1551986 in unity (Ubuntu Xenial) "HUD hotkey assignment is suboptimal" [Undecided,In progress]
<andyrock> thx
<davmor2> willcooke, cyphermox: see what did I say no mok-util trigger on upgrade for intel-microcode :'( I blame cyphermox I'll try it on nvidia hardware and see what happens there though now that I know that upgrades are at least working
<seb128> tjaalton, Trevinho, andyrock, saw https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bug/1566878 ?
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1566878 in xorg (Ubuntu) "Alt-backtick regression" [Undecided,New]
<seb128> tjaalton, the bug states it's due to the recent xserver update
<Trevinho> nope...
<cyphermox> davmor2: on upgrade for intel-microcode?
<cyphermox> you mean upgrading from trusty?
<davmor2> cyphermox: install trusty, install intel-microcode, upgrade to 16.04
<cyphermox> right, no
<cyphermox> intel-microcode doesn't seem to need dkms
<andyrock> seb128: backtick?
<davmor2> cyphermox: but it is the only driver that gets installed for 3rd party drivers on 16.04 and that triggers it unless it is like mp3 codec or something crazy
<seb128> andyrock, the key on left of 1 (top of tab)
<seb128> andyrock, the one to switch between wins of the active application
<cyphermox> fglrx?
<Trevinho> andyrock: alt+\ :)
<Trevinho> or alt grave..
<Trevinho> for us keys
<andyrock> ah yeah
<andyrock> sorry
<andyrock> :D
<Trevinho> Well, tjaalton there might be some changes in xkb code?
<Trevinho> as it's the one we use to figure out which key is above tab
<tjaalton> seb128, Trevinho: hrm, i'll have a look later
<seb128> Trevinho, https://launchpadlibrarian.net/251848437/xorg-server_2%3A1.18.1-1ubuntu4_2%3A1.18.3-1ubuntu1.diff.gz
<tjaalton> ppa:canonical-x/x-staging has had 1.18.2+fixes for several weeks, weird if noone else sees that
<tjaalton> 1.18.3 adds only a commit or two on top of the ppa
<tjaalton> i guess that shortcut is kbd layout specific?
<seb128> yes
<willcooke> andyrock, what do you think about alt-super-space for window controls?
<willcooke> might be confusing I guess
<seb128> Trevinho, do you have any idea about bug #1565522? Mikkel is one of the njpatel time unity devs if you knew/remember him ;-)
<ubot5`> bug 1565522 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "No menu bar in gtk apps" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1565522
<Trevinho> seb128: yeah, i do know him
<andyrock> willcooke: too big? but i'm now a designer
<andyrock> should not conflict with other stuf
<pitti> GunnarHj: ah, is there anything to sponsor? or should we revert the change for now?
<seb128> Trevinho, k, unsure if that's a really issue but it would be nice to at least follow up on the bug
<GunnarHj> pitti: Nothing to sponsor yet. That issue would be resolved with 2.11.94, so I'd like your view (again).
<Trevinho> seb128: sure, I think it's a duplicate of anohter one we're getting... It seems like a race though
<pitti> GunnarHj: well, it hasn't changed much; if even one patch does such damage, there's little reason to believe that taking 50 more patches is regression free
<seb128> Trevinho, well, you at least have somebody who knows how to follow debug intructions if you need some info ;-)
<pitti> GunnarHj: that said, upgrading is not off the table, but there's a lot more QA to be done there than just "crossing fingers"
<Trevinho> sure...
<pitti> GunnarHj: Mingye suggested some comparison script, that looks like a good start
<GunnarHj> pitti: I rather think that the commits are too interdependent to be cherry picked.
<seb128> GunnarHj, pitti, 2.11.1 is the current stable version, .94 is an unstable one ... seems late for such changes without a good rational?
<pitti> seb128: well, my point :) (see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fontconfig/+bug/1556457/comments/18)
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1556457 in fontconfig (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Demilight (OS/2 weight=350) confuses fontconfig" [High,Fix released]
<GunnarHj> pitti: Yeah, if I understand it correctly, Mingye's script would check for proper weigths.
<pitti> still, I think if someone can come up with a convincing plan to test this across fonts/glyphs/locales/desktops, it'd be okay, but this is a high-risk update
<seb128> pitti, right, I was just  throwing in that 11.1 is the current stable and .9x are unstable versions since their versionning is a bit confusing
<GunnarHj> pitti, seb128: What triggered this was the switch for Chinese from fonts-droid to fonts-noto-cjk. 2.11.1 is simply not ready for all the fonts weights in fonts-noto-cjk.
<seb128> :-/
<seb128> blame happyaron!
 * happyaron hummmmm...
<GunnarHj> seb128, pitti: If you talk to the upstream fontconfig developers, they have left 2.11.1 behind long ago. "Ancient". So we should probably not take the distinction between stable and development too seriously.
 * happyaron goes to his bed
<seb128> happyaron, night!
<seb128> happyaron, sorry was teasing you, it's a side effect of the change to use fonts-noto-cjk but you are not the only responsible for that transition ;-)
<happyaron> yeah I know, :p
<pitti> so, no idea here -- damned if you do, damned if you don't
<seb128> yeah :-/
<GunnarHj> pitti, seb128: Yeah, it may be high risk, but the risk for a regression wrt Chinese rendering is 100% if we don't do anything.
<willcooke> larsu, do you have a German kbd layout?  If so, can you tell me where you / key is?
<willcooke> your
<willcooke> is it on 7?
<pitti> willcooke: Shift+7
<seb128> GunnarHj, pitti, just as a data point, seems that fedora is on 2.11.94 so at least that version got some testing
<larsu> willcooke: I don't, but it's on the 7
<willcooke> thanks pitti
<larsu> pitti beat me to it. Of course :)
<willcooke> cheers larsu
<pitti> it's been a long time since I had a German keyboard, but my wife still has one :)
<GunnarHj> seb128, pitti: Right, we would certainly not be first. Also Arch Linux (and some more, don't remember...).
<seb128> willcooke, just for info you can add a german layout and click the keyboard icon then to see the keyboard drawing with the symbols
<seb128> in unity-control-center
<willcooke> thanks seb128
<seb128> yw!
<GunnarHj> seb128, pitti: Arch Linux upgraded to 2.11.94 for this same reason.
<willcooke> andyrock, thinking alt-; for window controls.  It's in the same place on most kbds and not far from space.  Asking design and Mark to advise....
<GunnarHj> pitti, seb128: I could try to make use of Mingye's test script together with Mingye tomorrow. (Suspect he is sleeping now.)
<willcooke> andyrock, looking at your mps - tests as well, nice!
<GunnarHj> pitti, seb128: At the same time, wouldn't it be advisable to get 2.11.94 into the archive ASAP, so we have some time for the community/testers to provide feedback?
<happyaron> GunnarHj: he never sleep at this moment
<pitti> GunnarHj, seb128: either that, or a call for testing (flavors times locales) with the PPA
<pitti> although I guess the more probable outcome will be that we do upgrade
<pitti> and we can revert back to 2.11.1 in the worst case
<happyaron> GunnarHj: well, a senior high student with quite a lot motivation
<GunnarHj> pitti: Right, reverting would be easy .
<happyaron> go to my bed really this time...
<pitti> I went over the other commits in 2.11.94 and almost all of them are bug fix-y
<GunnarHj> happyaron: Then I'll try to reach him.
<GunnarHj> pitti: So, are you ready to take the chance?
<pitti> I feel like getting my arm twisted, but I don't see a lot of other options
<pitti> seb128: WDYT?
<seb128> pitti, I think I would go for the update, it's relatively easy to revert if needed
<pitti> seb128: i. e. do you object to update+call for testing+revert to 2.11.94 on regressions? any better idea?
<seb128> it's likely going to be the most maintainable solution for a LTS
<seb128> cherry pick of random patches might backfire
<GunnarHj> pitti, seb128: Where would we post a call for testing?
<seb128> ubuntu-devel@list
<GunnarHj> seb128: Ok.
<seb128> happyaron, night
<andyrock> willcooke: i just have a problem with the "_" char showing up in the hud
<andyrock> not sure where is the problem but should not be a big thing to fix
<willcooke> thx andyrock
<GunnarHj> pitti, seb128: I could reopen bug #1556457, somebody uploads the thing, and I can made the call for testing on the ubuntu-devel list.
<ubot5`> bug 1556457 in fontconfig (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Demilight (OS/2 weight=350) confuses fontconfig" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1556457
<pitti> GunnarHj: ack, sounds like a plan
<GunnarHj> pitti: Just a detail as regards the PPA source: I think it would be proper to change the FreeType build dependency to 2.5.1.
<GunnarHj> pitti: Required according to one of the commits.
<GunnarHj> pitti: Will you do the upload? https://launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/+archive/ubuntu/fontconfig-test2
<pitti> GunnarHj: ah, you already merged in the previosu changelog? thanks
<pitti> GunnarHj: yes, will do
<pitti> GunnarHj: +1 for bumping the build dep indeed
<seb128> GunnarHj, did you update to .95?
<seb128> if we go with the new version we can as well take thecurrent one
<GunnarHj> seb128, pitti: The version in the PPA is 2.11.94. I think 2.11.95 was tagged today...
<pitti> yeah, but .94 got some testing, so let's rather update in two steps
<seb128> k
<seb128> that makes sense
<pitti> (that said, still a good idea to follow the .9x)
<pitti> GunnarHj: I suppose I should keep the gperf build dep from the previous upload too?
<pitti> there was no rationale, but your PPA package doesn't have it
<GunnarHj> pitti: Not sure. It proved to be necessary for the patching approach, but not for 2.11.94.
<pitti> ah, ok
<pitti> GunnarHj: ok, I took your PPA package, merged the ubuntu9 changelog, bumped fontconfig and mentioned the dropping of gperf b-dep and dropping the 0002 patch
<pitti> test-building now
<pitti> oh, should add a ref to the regression
<GunnarHj> pitti: The regression was reported at bug #1566651.
<ubot5`> bug 1566651 in fontconfig (Ubuntu) "Blurry fonts after update to fontconfig 2.11.1-0ubuntu9" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1566651
<pitti> yep, that; just added to changelog
<pitti> uploaded
<GunnarHj> pitti: Ok, great. I'll post the call for testing in an hour or so. (Need a break for food...).
<pitti> GunnarHj: thanks for your perseverance, and bon appetit !
 * pitti grabs some dinner too
<GunnarHj> ;)
<andyrock> seb128: where is the lp branch for libwnck xenail?
<andyrock> i need to provide a small distro patch (1 line) for the hud change
<seb128> andyrock, I don't think we have a vcs for that?
<seb128> just add a debdiff to a bug and subscribe sponsors
<seb128> or ask for sponsoring here
<andyrock> oki
<andyrock> seb128: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/xenial/+source/bamf/+bug/1551986/comments/4
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1551986 in unity (Ubuntu Xenial) "HUD hotkey assignment is suboptimal" [Undecided,In progress]
<andyrock> not sure the patch format is ok :D
<seb128> seems fine
<seb128> did you upstream that one?
<seb128> you know Trevinho right? :p
<Trevinho> I'm not sure i will accept that... :-D
<seb128> andyrock, btw you are sure you want libwnck and not libwnck3?
<andyrock> seb128: is not the same :D
<andyrock> ?
<seb128> no
<seb128> libwnck is old gtk2 version
<andyrock> ah ok
<andyrock> sorry didn't know we had two
<andyrock> I'll make a new one
<seb128> yw
<seb128> did you test it?
<seb128> did it work? ;-)
<seb128> maybe hud is still using the old lib
<dobey> anyone else notice that in 16.04, when closing the empathy window, most accounts are also disconnected?
<seb128> dobey, no, what account types? how do you notice?
<dobey> at least icq and jabber (gtalk); close empathy window, then click on messaging menu -> empathy to open it again, and most of my online contacts no longer appear
<andyrock> seb128: yeah it works like a charm
<andyrock> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/xenial/+source/bamf/+bug/1551986/comments/6
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1551986 in unity (Ubuntu Xenial) "HUD hotkey assignment is suboptimal" [Undecided,In progress]
<andyrock> the problem is that set_text (...) resets the use-underline property
<seb128> andyrock, how come it worked if you patched the wrong package?!
<andyrock> so if there is something (in our case dbusmenuitem) attached to the notify:label signal
<seb128> or did you patch a source and ld_preload that to test?
<andyrock> seb128: nope i tested it on the upstream project
<seb128> I see
<seb128> thanks
<andyrock> that's why i didn't know about the libwnck libwnck3 difference
<dobey> weird; seems to behaving better now after a reboot
<seb128> weird
<dobey> and it finally did the contact linking correctly it seems
<dobey> was having issues with that
<dobey> although that could still be very weird
<GunnarHj> seb128: Talking about regressions due to fonts-droid -> fonts-noto-cjk: Kubuntu and Xubuntu have not yet included fonts-noto-cjk in their seeds.
<GunnarHj> https://code.launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/ubuntu-seeds/kubuntu.xenial_chinese-fonts/+merge/288192
<GunnarHj> https://code.launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/ubuntu-seeds/xubuntu.xenial_chinese-fonts/+merge/288195
<GunnarHj> Are you able to help here?
<seb128> not really
<seb128> I'm not involved in those flavors
<seb128> unsure who to ping either
<GunnarHj> seb128: So they have themselves to blame, is that it?
<seb128> sort of I guess
<willcooke> desktoppers - I got the OK from design to use the grey colours for the tabs in terminal (@bg_color for active and shade(@bg_color, 0.7 for the others)
<willcooke> but...
<willcooke> I wondered...
<GunnarHj> seb128: IMO they have. Besides those MP:s, it was also up at ubuntu-devel: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2016-February/039217.html
<willcooke> http://imgur.com/MhMd1wo
<seb128> GunnarHj, you can maybe try mentioning in on #ubuntu-release
<seb128> willcooke, the orange is not light enough imho
<willcooke> seb128, it's the right colour, but yeah, I agree.  If I tweaked it - what do you think about an orange active tab?  Too much?
<seb128> willcooke, I still wonder if the adwaita way would be nicer, having a colored line at the top
<willcooke> "right colour" = "ubuorange"
<andyrock> willcooke: other thing in the hud the items are going to appear as "Close (Window)", "Resize (Window)"
<GunnarHj> seb128: Thanks for the tip, will do.
<seb128> GunnarHj, yw
<andyrock> to distinguish from Close (File) e.g.
<willcooke> andyrock, perfect, thanks
<seb128> willcooke, I saw some website today doing the 'color line at the top' thing, can't remember which one now but I think it was a popular one because I though that if even them were doing it that might be a good option
<willcooke> andyrock, can we use the original short cuts from the window menu, i.e. minimize = n to get the HUD to match against it?
<willcooke> seb128, the only way I can think of doing that would be with a coloured border
<andyrock> willcooke: we need to modify hud-service to take into account the mnemonic
<andyrock> not sure it's that easy
<andyrock> i'll take a look as soon as i push the bamf branch
<willcooke> thanks andyrock
<flocculant> GunnarHj: I've passed the comment along for us (xubuntu)
<willcooke> seb128, ha - I've done it!
<GunnarHj> flocculant: Great, thanks! Then there is only Kubuntu left.
<willcooke> seb128, ignore the borders etc for now; http://imgur.com/ffyCZ1y
<willcooke> seb128, I'm pretty pissed though.  It's taken me hours and hours to get those colour tabs working properly, and that took about 5 mins.  ;D
<willcooke> and I like it better
<willcooke> more
<willcooke> don't learn English from me
 * willcooke -> dinner 
<flocculant> alphabettispaghetti for you
<seb128> willcooke, enjoy!
<davmor2> Yeah learn proper English like what I does
<flocculant> \o/
<seb128> zat i'ow you speek then?
<flocculant> on day's with a y in them yup
<Sweet5hark> https://twitter.com/mjg59/status/717778599902744576 <- Matthew Garrett owes me a handle of gin (he says)
<willcooke> ha
<ogra_> Trade it for a new xscreensaver
<sarnold> Sweet5hark: hah, nice
<willcooke> seb128, oki, issues with coloured bar at the top of the tab....
<willcooke> * I'll have to turn off image borders and replace with solid ones
<willcooke> (not a big deal at all)
<willcooke>  * Need to sort the padding on the buttons, they're huuuuge at the moment
<willcooke> (easy fix)
<willcooke> and I think that's it
<willcooke> http://imgur.com/E6ByaXz
<willcooke> could probably do with a bit more separation between the tabs
<Trevinho> willcooke: that's quite nice... Some separation would be cool
<Trevinho> willcooke: what about doing the same in FF then? :-)
<willcooke> it's gtk2 right?
<willcooke> might be able to
<willcooke> imgur.com/S6hjZN3
<willcooke> http://imgur.com/S6hjZN3
<willcooke> what do you think?
<willcooke> it doesnt work with radiused tabs
<willcooke> and I feel that the tabs are still too big, but the "+" and the drop down arrow are a bit buggy and can't be fixed (by me, now)
<davmor2> willcooke, cyphermox: good news Nvidia upgrade upgraded and mokutils kicked in
<willcooke> and they need extra padding to work
<willcooke> woah!
<willcooke> good news davmor2
<davmor2> willcooke: tomorrow morning AMD/ATI
<davmor2> willcooke: see what havoc comes from going from fglrx to whatever the hell it's called now
<willcooke> :)
<Trevinho> willcooke: maybe a px less? If possible it would be nice to have the border bigger on selected one, and very tiny in the others
<willcooke> Trevinho, that's as small as I can get it
<willcooke> but I can make it 2px wide when selected
<willcooke> http://imgur.com/QR4tyVB
<willcooke> bed time
<willcooke> night all
<TheMuso> flexiondotorg: And mate-accessibility-profiles, but it needs to be let through binary NEW.
<TheMuso> flexiondotorg: And it seems they have.
<TheMuso> flexiondotorg: I've made a few changes since the indicator and profiles can be shipped on the desktop install, the redesign was to allow for that after all.
<TheMuso> flexiondotorg: Will upload a new ubuntu-mate-meta to address this.
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-04-07
<qengho> Zzz
<pitti> Good morning
<seb128> quiet desktop channel this morning!
 * willcooke sings 
<willcooke> oh, maybe that's why everyone left
<seb128> hum, starts raining
<seb128> :p
<pitti> from Will's *singing*? wow
<pitti> willcooke: ^ you can become a millionaire if you do that in California, the Sahara, or other deserts :)
<seb128> :-)
<seb128> hey pitti! wie gehts?
<pitti> seb128: prima, danke!
<willcooke> :D
<willcooke> morning pitti
<pitti> I had a bit of a "spring time fatigue" case in the last days, but since basketball last night I'm feeling great again
<pitti> seb128: et toi, comment vas-tu ?
<seb128> Ã§a va bien !
<larsu> pitti: spring time fatigue meaning "enjoying to lie in the sun"
<larsu> morning everyone!
<pitti> hey larsu !
<seb128> a bit tired, went to bed later this week (still on the holidays sleep time schedule :p)
<seb128> just went out to get some real coffee and read email&co at a coffee place
<Laney> oh hi!
<seb128> hey larsu Laney!
<pitti> seb128: nice
<seb128> the channel is waking up ;-)
<pitti> hey Laney, how are you?
<pitti> larsu: nah, more like "hayfever season starts"
<larsu> uh oh :(
<pitti> but doing exercise works wonders against that
<pitti> which is a great motivation -- "work out or feel bad" :)
<larsu> haha perfect!
 * seb128 wants to go play tennis
<pitti> btw, will anybody happen to be at the cloud sprint in May?
<pitti> foundations now got invited there, as we moved team
<seb128> you did?
<larsu> you moved?
<Laney> pitti: good thanks, you?
<pitti> and foundations has its own sprint in June
<Laney> we're going to work on upstreaming g-s changes today :-o
<pitti> but it seems we never have joint sprints with the desktop team any more :(
<seb128> Laney, \o/
<seb128> pitti, yeah, it's a shame :-(
<Laney> pitti: you moved into cloud things?
<pitti> seb128: not me personally, foundations got moved from UES to CDO
<Laney> ah
<Laney> all of 'core' or just you?
<seb128> pitti, right, the you was = foundations, I somewhat missing the email about that (if there was any)
<seb128> pitti, and no, I don't think we are going to join you :-/
<seb128> we have a team sprint in Prague at the end of april
<seb128> but that's co-hosted with unity8/design teams
<pitti> yeah, probably not public channel material, but horribly uninteresting/boring anyway for any non-Canonical folks :)
<Laney> haha
<pitti> still pondering whether I'll go to debconf this year
<larsu> pitti: too far?
<pitti> "great people and great conference" vs. "argh far away and already doing a lot of flights this year"
<larsu> but you'd be in the cloud more!
<seb128> a bit of the same here
<larsu> (yeah, I just did that)
<seb128> travelling 3 times in april
<seb128> though I guess it's going to be a bit more quiet again then
<pitti> both my CO2 foot print and my radiation intake must have reached absurd levels by now
<seb128> shame for foundations moving out of UES
<seb128> it means that if we get a UES sprint we are still not seeing each others
<pitti> not entirely sure why this was done, but I entirely blame Rick :)
<seb128> pitti, you are going to go to UbuCon Europe at least I guess?
<seb128> though that's in nov.
<pitti> maybe
<Laney> seb128: could you look at https://code.launchpad.net/~nhaines/ubuntu-wallpapers/xenial-fcs/+merge/291209 perhaps?
<seb128> Laney, sure
<Laney> thanks!
<seb128> Laney, what changes do you guys upstream? I though attente/robert_ancell were commiting everything that is upstream material directly to git and just stacking ubuntu specific backend/changes in another branch? did that de-rail?
<seb128> or is upstream taking the apt backend in trunk now?
<Laney> they're in branches, it's about merging as much as possible in trunk
<seb128> cool
<seb128> btw are we moving to get g-s sticking in bg as a service after all?
<seb128> I saw attente reverted his patches to make it exit on close
<attente> seb128: yeah, i think we should if we want to think about checking for fwupd updates
<seb128> you mean checking about those in bg?
<attente> yes
<seb128> because I guess getting those updates from an active g-s would still work even if it was not in service mode?
<attente> seb128: i guess. but i'm also not sure what happens if gs is terminated while its checking for updates
<attente> seb128: there's also some other ui crashers that i think are being caused because we allow the ui to be destroyed
<seb128> attente, hum, k
<xclaesse> is there already a release date planned for 16.04 ?
<seb128> xclaesse, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenialXerus/ReleaseSchedule
<xclaesse> seb128, thanks
<seb128> attente, is there any side issue due the fact that we have 3 components doing index updates now? apt has a systemd timer unit (I think), update-notifier and now gnome-software
<seb128> attente, also does gnome-software start with the session? or does the user need to try to use it once to have it activated? (in which case if you don't use it you still never get notified about firmware updates)
<attente> seb128: doesn't start with a unity session afaict, but does with gnome-shell iirc
<attente> seb128: not sure about side issues, but if gs is doing an update, it prevents using apt directly from the command line
<seb128> right, it locks the db
<seb128> but it still means we do that update more often that needed
<seb128> which might also means hitting the servers 3 times more
<seb128> which might not be low-cost on the infra
<seb128> like if you have 10M users which have a daily trigger, and g-s does the same it means we have another 10M server hit daily
<seb128> seems suboptimal
<Laney> stop update-manager doing the update itself then
<pitti> err, yes please
<pitti> but u-m isn't supposed to do taht automatically, and I don't think it does
<pitti> u-n gets *triggered* by new apt indexes being available
<pitti> but it doesn't request them by itself
<seb128> Laney, update-manager is not a service and not doing any index update in bg afaik
<seb128> what pitti said
<seb128> apt has that cron, now system timer unit
<seb128> I don't know what g-s does exactly
<seb128> does it trigger refreshes by itself in a periodic way?
<seb128> attente, ^ do you know?
<attente> seb128: yeah, the default behaviour is it checks once a day
<seb128> well, if we have it acting as a service imho it should
<seb128> - start with the session
<seb128> - don't dup that apt is already doing
<seb128> +work
<pitti> why would gnome-software start with the session?
<pitti> that seems rather expensive
<seb128> because they use it in service mode to do what update-notifier does for us
<pitti> and index updates are even more expensive of course
<seb128> except that it does it for more than debs
<pitti> ah, this will replace u-n?
<seb128> e.g for firmware updates as well
<seb128> I guess it should
<seb128> but it's a bit late in the cycle
<pitti> apt's trigger at least has some protection to not run on battery, and when the box is offline, etc.
<pitti> well, we ship firmware through normal packages
<seb128> unsure
<seb128> that's the recent fwupd stack superm1 worked on
<seb128> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-software/+bug/1544376
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1544376 in gnome-software (Ubuntu) "[ffe] Enable firmware support" [High,Fix released]
<seb128> that does efi bios updates
<seb128> tjaalton, pitti, thanks for figuring that xorg/kbd issue out
<tjaalton> well, need to decide if we still want that caching or not
<seb128> Trevinho, andyrock, just as a follow up, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/2:1.18.3-1ubuntu2
<seb128> tjaalton, would still be good to have imho
<andyrock> hey seb128
<seb128> hey andyrock ;-) how are you?
<andyrock> i just wake up :D
<andyrock> *o
<seb128> you are on Trevinho's time? ;-)
<GunnarHj> seb128, pitti: I got a private mail from sabdfl about the call for testing message: "Thank you, nicely done." So we probably did the right thing. :)
<seb128> GunnarHj, hey, good ;-)
<seb128> seems the update went well, no negative feedback/bugs that I can see
<davmor2> jibel, willcooke, cyphermox: no issues on all amd box going from fglrx to amdgpu
<willcooke> davmor2, sorry?
<willcooke> No issues?
 * willcooke rubs eyes
<davmor2> willcooke: no issues upgrading an all amd box
<willcooke> wooooohooo
<willcooke> great work
<willcooke> thanks davmor2
<davmor2> willcooke: 14.04 to 16.04 going from fglrx to the new gfx stack amdgpu
<willcooke> Laney, seb128 - thanks for sorting the wallpapers
<GunnarHj> seb128: Just saw a negative Chrome report:
<GunnarHj> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/language-selector/+bug/1468027/comments/113
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1468027 in kubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "change default CJK fonts to Noto CJK" [Medium,In progress]
<GunnarHj> Don't know yet if it's due to the fc upgrade or Noto Sans CJK in general.
<seb128> k
<cyphermox> davmor2: cool, thanks
<xclaesse> there is no autoremove of old kernels running time to times?
<xclaesse> on 14.04 at least
<xclaesse> is that something fixed in 16.04 ?
<xclaesse> Realized that my mother's computer has 10G (!) of useless kernels
 * ricotz notes removing 8GB worth of kernels was fun
<xclaesse> yeah, going to take a looong time
<xclaesse> basically 2 years of kernel updates
<xclaesse> I really hope it's fixed in 14.04, it's like the most critic bug I've had with ubuntu
<xclaesse> *16.04
<xclaesse> I remember I already had years ago /boot full because of that
<xclaesse> in the middle of a kernel upgrade => system won't boot anymore
<seb128> xclaesse, what to be fixed?
<xclaesse> seb128, removing 10G of kernel updates
<seb128> yeah, that's fixed
<xclaesse> not in 14.04 at least
<seb128> they are marked for autoremoval/cleared
<seb128> right
<xclaesse> doing the upgrade to 16.04 atm
<seb128> it was fixed properly in 15.10 I think
<seb128> seems to be working for me at least
<xclaesse> will it do the autoremove itself, or do I still have to run sudo apt autoremove myself?
<flexiondotorg> Trevinho, Afternoon.
<flexiondotorg> Trevinho, https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mate-dev/compiz/fix-1567354/+merge/291235
<seb128> xclaesse, update-manager is doing it for you
<xclaesse> seb128, cool, thanks :)
<seb128> yw!
<flexiondotorg> Trevinho, Sorry. My earlier merge proposal was stacked incorrectly.
<flexiondotorg> I've corrected it here - https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mate-dev/compiz/fix-1567354/+merge/291239
<andyrock> seb128, Trevinho do we need a FFe for the hud change?
<seb128> andyrock, yes
<andyrock> seb128: k ta
<andyrock> i'll take care of it
<seb128> thanks
<andyrock> seb128: a technical question: in bamf we need dbusmenu-glib/gtk now
<andyrock> i made the dep optional in configure.ac
<andyrock> but i'm wondering what i should do in debian/rules
<seb128> explicit is better than implicit
<seb128> so if there is a --enable/disable just set what is appropriate
<andyrock> there is a --enable
<andyrock> and it's on by default
<seb128> stilll explicit is better
<andyrock> but e.g. elementary guys can turn it off
<seb128> so please add it to the rules
<seb128> don't forget the build-depends in debian/control as well ;-)
<andyrock> k
<pitti> Laney: do you know off the top of your head the magic string to search for in https://objectstorage.prodstack4-5.canonical.com/v1/AUTH_77e2ada1e7a84929a74ba3b87153c0ac/autopkgtest-xenial/xenial/s390x/g/glib2.0/20160406_154338@/log.gz
<pitti> Laney: i. e. which test failed?
 * pitti tried "fail:", "error:", and "not ok" so far
<pitti> and also through the hundreds of matches of "fail" (which are mostly test names which contain that word)
<superm1> pitti: gnome-software does set up a monitor for network status changes with a GNetworkMonitor and all the plugins then have code on what to do based on network status
<superm1> (re that discussion that i was mentioned above)
<superm1> i don't believe there is any check for whether the system is on AC vs battery today, but I doubt there would be opposition to that being added
<pitti> well, as long as it's only testing for BIOS updates and perhaps snaps, that at least doesn't duplicate the apt cronjob
<seb128> pitti, "Test glib/gdbus-proxy.test failed" I guess is hte issue?
<superm1> even if the metadata offers a FW update for some hardware on the system, individual fwupd plugins have controls (and policy) whether to offer firmware updates to fwupdmgr (CLI) or gnome-software (gui)
<pitti> (not sure if snappy already has some cron job/timer for checking for updates)
<superm1> well that's actually something i was going to mention
<superm1> maybe it's worthwhile having a similar cron job to apt for snaps and fwupd appstream data
<superm1> if not using gnome-software's refresh service
<seb128> GLib-GIO:ERROR:/build/glib2.0-E9pInk/glib2.0-2.48.0/./gio/tests/gdbus-proxy.c:826:fail_test: code should not be reached
<pitti> seb128: ah, thanks
<seb128> pitti, yw
<pitti> ok, that's nothing new then, this test has failed fairly often recently
<seb128> desrt ^ is that a known issue?
<seb128> superm1, pitti, willcooke, I didn't look at when g-s does it index refresh exactly but we should keep a good eye on it, if it does it everytime you connect/get online it might DoS the servers a bit
<Trevinho> andyrock: Yes, use enable and off by default
<pitti> eww, yes
<pitti> *every* time?
<seb128> *if*
<pitti> it also DoSes your 3G connection
<seb128> as said I didn't look at the code
<seb128> attente or Laney probably know better
<seb128> Laney, attente, ^ can you figure that out? when does g-s refresh its indexes exactly? does it has a notion of "don't do it on mobile"?
<superm1> it does monitor for metered connections i know
<dobey> huh, now empathy is misbehaving again :-/
<seb128> dobey, :-(
<seb128> do you get any warning/errors?
<dobey> no
<dobey> well, nothing visible
<seb128> when did that start? empathy didn't change in ages
<seb128> neither did the telepathy stack
<dobey> and .xsession-errors doesn't show anything
<dobey> well i've been using pidgin forever. i just started trying to use empathy again a few days ago
<seb128> dobey, logs are in .cache/upstart
<seb128> .xession-errors get nothing nowadays
<seb128> just the upstart errors
<seb128> since that's what xsession starts
<seb128> then upstart manages the session so it gets the log
<seb128> under unity7 or dbus logs, depending how you start the thing
<dobey> hmm, ok
<dobey> i'll see if there's anything in there
<seb128> k
<seb128> brb
<desrt> seb128, holidays this week, sorry
<qengho> My network just bounced a bit and APT's download description went a little wonky. I really admire the optimism of whoever put petabyte units in there.
<attente> seb128: hughsie said that it does the right thing by default for metered connections (doesn't do updates), but allows the user to override through the ui
<seb128> attente, where in the ui?
<seb128> attente, also if you are on eth or wifi, how often does it refresh/hit the server? every time you connect to a ap or cable?
<seb128> or once a day?
<seb128> or...?
<Laney> src/gs-shell-updates.c
<Laney> daily
<seb128> can we just disable that?
<seb128> if we have a systemd timer job
<seb128> if->since
<attente> seb128: pops up a dialog
<seb128> saying that?
<attente> "Checking for updates while using mobile broadband could cause you to incur charges."
<seb128> hum
<seb128> so that dialog pops daily out of nowhere if you are on 3g?
<attente> seems to be so
<seb128> :-/
<seb128> oh well, that's a detail/bug we can fix later
<seb128> the important bit is to make sure that both apt and g-s don't hit the server to refresh the index daily
<seb128> or we double the number of requests to the server
<Laney> who says it does that?
<seb128> shrug
<Laney> the dialog thing
<seb128> attente just did?
<attente> i'm just looking through the code
<attente> src/gs-shell-updates.c +858
<attente> actually it seems like this only happens when the user explicitly clicks the refresh button though...
<Laney> yes
<seb128> seems like an non issue then
<seb128> good :-)
<dobey> qengho: i've seen the PB/s before, without /my/ network going wonky
<Laney> seb128: it already ignores the background updates
<Laney> Â»Â·Â·Â·if ((flags & GS_PLUGIN_REFRESH_FLAGS_UPDATES) == 0)
<Laney> Â»Â·Â·Â·Â»Â·Â·Â·return TRUE;
<seb128> Laney, meaning? it doesn't do autorefresh of the index by itself?
<seb128> just if you click the button?
<Laney> correct
<seb128> k
<seb128> so what's the point of having it always active as a service?
<seb128> I might be overlooking something it does by itself
<seb128> if it only reacts to UI actions it can as well only be active when the ui is open right?
<Laney> firmware
<Laney> other plugins than apt in general
<seb128> is that frequent enough to justify a service active all the time?
<Laney> talk to superm1
<seb128> superm1, ^
<seb128> do you think we need a service for that?
<seb128> or it's going enough to let user know about those updates when they use the store?
<Laney> why is it such a big problem?
<seb128> Laney, it's not the end of the world, but it's the 3rd memory user process on my session with 45M of RAM used and it's one more process active/creating wakeups/...
<seb128> shared RAM
<seb128> we always tries to limit bloat, just part of that
<seb128> but we can't get around then it is what it is
<seb128> just a bit sad to see us drift
<superm1> seb128: if it's running as a service it has an update monitor that will run and update metadata once a day not only when you click the refresh button
<superm1> to me this actually replaces update-notifier
<seb128> I'm +1 for that
<superm1> or at least it should, maybe it's not banged on hard enough for that now
<seb128> but then we actually need to check if we can disable update-notifier
<seb128> or does it still do other things?
<superm1> but when the whole concept was initially coming together that's what i was expecting was going to happen
<seb128> right
<seb128> that sounds good
<seb128> but it's a bit late in the cycle to swap out update-notifier
<seb128> at least if we do we need a ffe and somebody actually making sure we don't throw away anything useful
<superm1> yeah
<superm1> but Laney and attente were with hughsie all week, hopefully they understand the approach that's supposed to be used with this well now
<seb128> right
<seb128> I think that part is not the issue
<seb128> it's just making sure we don't have custom parts doing the same things
<Laney> it's not replacing update notifier yet
<Laney> should do in future though, and update-manager
<seb128> what is update-notifier still doing?
 * seb128 looks to refresh his mind
<Laney> gnome-software isn't a full apt upgrader yet
<seb128> well, update-notifier doesn't do much nowadays iirc
<seb128> the apt index refresh is a systemd timer
<Laney> it's not even telling you about all updates
<seb128> the apport prompting used to come from it but it's an upstart job now iirc
<seb128> u-n is what auto-open update-manager though right?
<seb128> also it handles upgrade medias, e.g if you put a dvd with a new version of Ubuntu
<seb128> superm1, I guess the question is to know how often/useful firmware upgrades notifications are to users, e.g is it worth having a process eating 45M RAM all year long to prompt users about those once a year
<superm1> seb128: well at least for my company updates are issued approximately every 2 months for the systems we're supporting it on
<superm1> fwupd is going to be supporting all sorts of random firmware upgrades at some point though too
<superm1> and i'm sure other companies will come on board to use it for EFI eventually
<seb128> yeah, don't get me wrong, I see that it's useful
<seb128> it's just a cost/benefit thing
<superm1> so if it's not ready to replace update-notifier, is there a better way to pull down metadata updates (cron?) and open gnome-software when relevant?
<seb128> not one ready
<seb128> we would need to work on a solution
<Sweet5hark1> seb128: http://people.canonical.com/~bjoern/xenial/5.1.2/libreoffice-l10n_5.1.2-0ubuntu1_source.changes http://people.canonical.com/~bjoern/xenial/5.1.2/libreoffice_5.1.2-0ubuntu1_source.changes
<seb128> attente, Laney, superm1, in any case I think that needs a ffe
<Sweet5hark1> seb128: ^^ upstream has released 5.1.2, kindly asking you to consider sponsoring.
<seb128> if we decide we want those firmware update notifications we need to turn back g-s to a proper service and have it to start on login
<seb128> Sweet5hark1, thanks, looking in a bit
<superm1> seb128: well i guess leadership in your team needs to get all this stuff documented somewhere and decide on the approach to take then
<seb128> willcooke, ^ that would be you? ;-) :p
<superm1> i suspect if it's going to be a cron updates and open gnome-software some other way it will have to land after release as an SRU of sorts
<superm1> and if it's before, leave gnome-software as a service it's an FFe (maybe turn that bug that firmware updates weren't working into an FFe)
<seb128> right
<Trevinho> xnox: hey, is there a way to get a trace of the execution of upstart jobs? Like a log of what has been launched, when and in which order
<xnox> Trevinho, yes. is this for desktop or pid 1?
<Trevinho> xnox: session
<xnox> modify things in xsession that launch upstart, and add --debug there
<xnox> and then in your ~/.xsession.log or what not will have all the glory details
<Trevinho> xnox: ok, thanks
<willcooke> seb128, sorry was tied up
<willcooke> read the backlog
 * Trevinho wonders who launches upstart now :)
<willcooke> so I think the issue is.  If g-s doesn't run as a service we don't get FW update notifications.  If we turn off u-n and rely purely on g-s then we don't get "technical items" notifications
<willcooke> We're not going to turn off u-n now.
<Trevinho> xnox: also ~/.config/upstart/ANY_SERVICE.conf will always override the ANY_SERVICE system one, right?
<willcooke> and it sounds like we need g-s running as a service anyway to fix other issues
<willcooke> so I think we just have to eat it for now
<willcooke> and run both
<xnox> Trevinho, yes, the manpage lists priority of locations.
<Trevinho> xnox: sure, just to be sure :)
<Laney> superm1: just uploaded glib to jessie-backports
<seb128> willcooke, k, I sort of got to the same conclusion
<Trevinho> xnox: --debug added but got nothing in .xsession.log :o
<seb128> Laney, attente, k, let's turn g-s to a service and start it a login then ... I think that should get a ffe but up to Laney to decide if he agrees on not, I'm not going to argue if you think it's fine to change without one
<seb128> Trevinho, .xession-errors?
<Laney> thanks seb128 willcooke
<attente> seb128: thanks
<Trevinho> nope
<seb128> Trevinho, :-/
<superm1> Laney: awesome thanks.
<Laney> yw
<Laney> are you going to backport fw* and gnome-software and everything?
<willcooke> cheers guys
<Laney> just seen someone's gnome-shell lock screen
<Laney> they show notifications on there
<Laney> this is nice ;_;
<Trevinho> I've  -marco     7545  1.3  0.3  46852  5096 ?        Ss   16:56   0:01 /sbin/upstart --user --debug --verbose but no logs
<seb128> Laney, did you learn about their secret $companey_plan through the email summaries? ;-)
<superm1> Laney: hopefully the whole stack, but have to see what other push back I hit. If nothing else at least command line options
<Laney> seb128: just that he got highlighted on IRC :P
<Laney> in #bring-down-canonical
<Laney> !!!!
<seb128> lol
<Sweet5hark1> hmmm, it hails outside and I could be on gran canaria instead (libreoffice espania hackfest)
<Trevinho> seb128: so, it seems the log goes to /var/log/lightdm/x-0-greeter.log, xnox possible?
<seb128> I guess
<seb128> or is that the greeter session log?
<xnox> Trevinho, that would be the upstart session of the greeter, it runs an upstart too.
<Trevinho> ah
<xnox> Trevinho, you probably after ~/.xsession* something log, and modify the Xsession scripts
<Trevinho> xnox: no, there's nothing related... Maybe there's some option in xorg to disable this by default
<xnox> hm
<Trevinho> I would just manually launch that by hand, but... I neeeded some user feedback, and thus nothing to be hardly modified
<seb128> Trevinho, can you change the command to "> /tmp/upstart.log" or something?
<Trevinho> seb128: I tried, but it didn nothing too
<Trevinho> it's in /etc/X11/Xsession.d/99upstart and the command is exported as a variable... which I don't know who runs
<xnox> Trevinho, cat ~/.xsession-errors
<xnox> ?
<xnox> should have the user desktop init messages
<Trevinho> ah, by another script
 * Trevinho didn't grep :)
<Trevinho> xnox: I get errors there, but no stdout data
<xnox> Trevinho, the Xsession.d/99upstart sounds like the right thing to adjust, or there should be 01upstart too
<xnox> and it should be in ~/.xsession-errors... =(
<Trevinho> xnox: ok I got it
<Laney> hi xnox!
<Trevinho>  /etc/X11/Xsession.d/99x11-common_start -> exec $STARTUP &> /tmp/xlog.log
<xnox> Trevinho, there are loads of logs in ~/.cache/upstart/* too
<xnox> from individual logs
<Trevinho> xnox: yeah, scanned and sorted. none was there
<xnox> =(
<seb128> Laney, do you know why debian/copyright in ubuntu-wallpapers only list the copyright of the current release set of images? the older ones are still distributed so technically we should add the new one but remove the old ones (asking because it seems it was already done like that in previous cycles)
<Laney> seb128: you are probably interested in https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-art-pkg/ubuntu-wallpapers/ubuntu/revision/155#debian/copyright and https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-art-pkg/ubuntu-wallpapers/ubuntu/revision/166#debian/copyright
<larsu> Laney, seb128: (hopefully) quick question: `debuild -S` calls dpkg-buildpackage with "-us -uc", but I want the package to be signed...
<larsu> do you know where it pulls those options from?
<seb128> larsu, it does sign by default
<larsu> I called all the tools manually before, which worked
<Laney> what's in ~/.devscripts?
<larsu> seb128: maybe I set something somewhere? I can't find anything :(
<seb128> do you have a private key matching the email in the changelog?
<Laney> I usually sign it manually though
<larsu> Laney: *big hug*
<seb128> you can debuild -S -k<key> otherwise to force a key to sign
<larsu> I just didn't know I put that there - probably years ago
<larsu> seb128: ah that's handy as well
<larsu> thanks!
<seb128> yw!
<Laney> probably because you wanted it to not sign automatically in the past
<Laney> it's annoying default behaviour if you build a lot of packages
<larsu> right
<larsu> why do you sign manually?
<Laney> only need to do it when actually uploading
<larsu> ah, right
<larsu> thank you!
<seb128> Laney, thanks, in fact it gets me confused even more :-/
<seb128> I guess going to need to ping Nathan / Daniel
<seb128> bah and dholbach *just* left IRC
<Laney> looks like he made it a list instead of a generic thing but didn't do the old ones
<seb128> well he removed the old ones from the first section
<seb128> which is CC-BY-SA 2.0
<seb128> and the * is for 3.0
<seb128> but I'm unsure why we have every 3.0 but the new ones 2.0
<seb128> or if that's wanted
<seb128> that doesn't make any sense to me
<seb128> I asked Nathan but he doesn't seem around
<seb128> let's wait to see if he replies
<seb128> Laney, https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-software/commit/?h=wip/rancell/apt&id=48db971d839823dad9eeb49b43175d07bd978f5a fixes https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-software/+bug/1554164 right?
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1554164 in gnome-software (Ubuntu) "Invalid read in get_changelog()" [High,New]
<seb128> Laney, I'm going to assume so and change the bug to be assigned to you/fix commited :p
<Laney> umm don't know
<Laney> probably
<Laney> the trace looks similar
<seb128> Sweet5hark1, libreoffice sponsored, thanks!
<seb128> Sweet5hark1, btw did you see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/1566050 ? it's seems to hit quite some users
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1566050 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "soffice.bin crashed with SIGSEGV in MenuItemData::~MenuItemData()" [High,Confirmed]
<superm1> attente: Laney since it sounds the user service for gnome-software  will come back it's worth mentioning that you should probably also make sure this doesn't start when on a live disk (probably something needed in the session script to detect casper or a casper script to modify the livefs while booted )
<superm1> actually applying an update from a live disk is technically possible for some FW types live, but others you would have to stage the system properly before trying (eg mount an existing ESP to the right place first or create one)
<Laney> does update-notifier/update-manager do that?
<Laney> a patch would be nice :)
<superm1> happy to do a casper patch, need to see how you will normally start the service though
<superm1> looks to me that casper does turn off update-notifier
<superm1> with 31disable_update_notifier
<Laney> it'll be an xdg autostart file
<Laney> look at the current one, fixing OnlyShowIn there
<superm1>  /etc/xdg/autostart/gnome-software-service.desktop
<superm1> Laney: okay added in casper 1.371
<Laney> superm1: merci, did/will you upload?
<Laney> mvo: do you know where "apt show" gets APT-Sources from?
<Laney> I can't follow the code
<mvo> Laney: it looks at the current indexfile that matches the record and ask where it comes from, its in private-show.cc line 176
<mvo> Laney: is it not working? or why do you ask?
<Laney> mvo: It is working, I want to steal the logic for gnome-software
<Laney> you want to see something scary?
<Laney> mvo: https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-software/tree/src/plugins/gs-plugin-apt.c?h=wip/rancell/apt#n387
<mvo> Laney: uff
<mvo> Laney: there is no great way right now to check this but that looks not ideal
<mvo> Laney: is this linking to libapt, i.e. could libapt be used here?
<Laney> it's using aptdaemon in other places but not libapt
<mvo> Laney: if not, you will need to look from the {,In}Release file to the packages file (or rather from the Packages file back to the release file) and check the origin label etc.
<Laney> I can probably eliminate most of the worst parts
<Laney> like looking at Origin
<Laney> I wanted the APT-Sources thing to get the section and release
<Laney> yeah okay, so starting from Release is probably a good idea
<mvo> Laney: indeed, it might be simpler to use libapt, but maybe not, it seems there is a lot of reimplementation already so maybe its not worth the effort
<Laney> robert_ancell wrote this, I'm coming to it a bit blind
<mvo> Laney: so yeah, use release, walk down to the matching Packages file (you could use the hashes as a cheap way to find the matching ones)
<mvo> Laney: I know :)
<Laney> bleh
<mvo> Laney: not blaming you
<Laney> how do I even know which Release to look at?
 * Laney is reimplementing apt
<mvo> Laney: you will ned to look at them all and then see if the packages file matches
<mvo> Laney: yes you are
<mvo> Laney: a cheap way of finding the right packages file for the release file might be to use use the hashes, but its a bit slow, or you need to construct filenames accorindly and escape in the right way etc
<mvo> (or you use libapt ;)
<Laney> this is sounding more sane
<Laney> this API is easy to use right? :)
<Laney> I just need to iterate through all the available packages and get some fields like origin/section/component/release
<mvo> Laney: *cough* easy *cough* - the python bindings are, but the c++ is medium easy, let me think a little bit if I can help
<Laney> mvo: that would be nice if you have time, even a demo program would be great or a pointer to a similar example
<superm1> Laney: yes uploaded
<Sweet5hark1> seb128: hmmm, that crash is odd ...
<Sweet5hark1> seb128: because the crashing thread includes #6  0x00007fe082149088 in __run_exit_handlers (status=0, listp=0x7fe0824d35f8 <__exit_funcs>, run_list_atexit=run_list_atexit@entry=true) at exit.c:82 in the stacktrace
<Sweet5hark1> seb128: so it was already exiting when it crashed (the latter possibly due to some race with the dbus stuff). but the question is: why was this exiting in the first place if the user didnt intend that?
<Sweet5hark1> seb128: oh, and thanks for the sponsoring!
<Sweet5hark1> hmmm, so for bug 1566050 -- I guess the stacktrace is misleading: something is causing LO to exit and it is crashing when doing that -- the real question though is what triggered the exit (and the stacktraces dont help with that -- it could even be many very different things, each an odd cornercase in itself)
<ubot5`> bug 1566050 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "soffice.bin crashed with SIGSEGV in MenuItemData::~MenuItemData()" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1566050
<Sweet5hark1> ok, ~90% of the cmdlines opened a csv -- so the stacktrace is meaningful and sc/source/ui/dbgui/csvgrid.cxx:88 will soon regret its lifecycle management choices ...
<sarnold> Sweet5hark1: the Dependencies.txt shows two modified files in the librreoffice-common package..
<Sweet5hark1> sarnold: thats even ... woot?
<sarnold> Sweet5hark1: dunno. it might be relevant it may not be..
<Sweet5hark1> sarnold: ok, thats horrible. I have a guess what is responsible for that though and its unlikely the cause of the crash ...
<willcooke> quittin time.  night all
<willcooke> holiday tomrrow and Monday, travelling all next week
<willcooke> email or telegram if you need anything
<willcooke> l8r
<sarnold> Sweet5hark1: interesting, two dups too, I just made the second one public
<Sweet5hark1> sarnold: my bet would be someone played with the lifecycle management in the dialog in unhealthy ways. My current best bet is https://github.com/LibreOffice/core/commit/2660d24a07866e083c5135ea263030f3e3a2e729#diff-0438608831b6633414398d7cb4b44950R1360 ...
<sarnold> Sweet5hark1: yikes,that certainly seems like the scope of problem that could do that..
<lulaj_> I need help with gtk+ , how add shortcut to window?
<qengho>  
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-04-08
<hikiko> Hello
<Sweet5hark1> moin
<dirk103> Please for the love of god someone tell me how to rearrange tabs in Glade
<Sweet5hark> seb128: what happened to the 5.1.2 upload? im sure i saw it on lp yesterday, now it seems gone?
<seb128> hey Sweet5hark
<seb128> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+publishinghistory
<seb128> it looks like it's being moved from xenial-proposed to proposed
<pitti> Good morning
<seb128> just looked at the wrong time? wait a few minutes
<seb128> hey pitti, wie gehts?
<pitti> seb128: gut, danke, und Dir! Du bist ja zeitig wach heute :)
<seb128> pitti, auch gut, danke ;-)
<Sweet5hark> seb128: thanks, was just freaking as a will be travelling today ...
<seb128> pitti, yeah, trying to get a not-too-shifted work day today ;-)
<seb128> Sweet5hark, going to this spanish hackfest after all? ;-)
<Sweet5hark> seb128: na, to munich -- to meet with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigitte_Zypries
<seb128> have fun there!
<Sweet5hark> seb128: will do my best ;)
<larsu> morning!
<larsu> launchpad spam? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qt4-x11/+bug/1005677/comments/57
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1005677 in overlay-scrollbar (Ubuntu Quantal) "Re-emergence of "Gtk-CRITICAL **: IA__gtk_widget_style_get: assertion `GTK_IS_WIDGET (widget)'" Makes vlc and other Qt apps crash" [High,Fix released]
<seb128> hey larsu!
<seb128> spammers :-/
<larsu> member since 2009
<larsu> hi seb128! How are you?
<seb128> larsu, I'm good thanks! how are you?
<larsu> hm, no obvious "report abuse" button. meh
<larsu> seb128: good as well, thanks! :)
<seb128> larsu, I think you need to use the answer tracker on launchpad
<seb128> or maybe ask on #launchpad
<larsu> maybe I should do that - I got two of those this morning
<larsu> from the same account
<larsu> and the sun is shining. Good time to report some spammers :)
<larsu> seb128: ah, it is answers. Searching there shows a lot of requests
<larsu> ooh, got a ppa-built cockpit package working on ubuntu \o/
<flexiondotorg> Trevinho, Morning. I found a fix for the mate-menu, so no Compiz winrules required. I've deleted that merge proposal :-)
<davmor2> cyphermox: still get hit by the Failed to create swap space on oem install full wipe and install.  Will work around it for now to see if oem enduser setup actually works or not
<Trevinho> flexiondotorg: good :-)
<davmor2> cyphermox: good news time now OEM install installed once I had bypassed the swap issue
<cyphermox> davmor2: ack. I'll fix that this morning
<davmor2> cyphermox: nice I'll give it another try on that hardware Monday then dude on the whole everything seems a lot happier though :)
<cyphermox> yeah
<seb128> hey cyphermox
<cyphermox> hey
<ricotz> cyphermox, hi, I guess merging dbus 1.10.8-1 for be good
<ricotz> https://cgit.freedesktop.org/dbus/dbus/tree/NEWS?h=dbus-1.10#n6
<cyphermox> no, please do not merge dbus
<cyphermox> pitti did mention it yesterday, I'd rather leave this to him
<ricotz> cyphermox, I don't intend to, more requesting this upstream update
<cyphermox> why?
<ricotz> in this case just because it is there
<seb128> cyphermox, I'm trying to n-m update from Tony's ppa, segfaults in the wwan plugin, works once that's move out of the way though
<cyphermox> seb128: ok
<seb128> cyphermox, was there more discussion with release about landing the update?
<cyphermox> not that I saw
<seb128> it feels like we are getting little traction
<seb128> I wonder if I should keep pushing or not :-/
<cyphermox> well as long as it segfaults in obvious ways like that, there is little point in asking for permission to upload
<cyphermox> but the wwan plugin should be easy enough to fix, I would think
<seb128> right
<seb128> Tony updated n-m itself, do you know if he's working on -gnome and the other set?
<cyphermox> I think so, but I'm not sure
<cyphermox> I had already updated most of nm-applet (though to beta1), and the VPN plugins can be straight syncs from Debian
<seb128> k, let's see if we can get things moving today
<seb128> otherwise it's probably going to be for next cycle
<seb128> it hits "Failed asserting path component: \"hfp/org/bluez/hci0/dev_50_32_75_1C_B4_17\"""
<cyphermox> weird, that's a missing patch
<Laney> mvo: did you see / could you look at https://code.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/apt-ddtp-tools/xz/+merge/291260 please?
<seb128> hey Laney, happy friday!
<seb128> is the hackfest still going strong?
<Laney> hey seb128
<Laney> didn't I say anything today?????
<seb128> or are people packing up to travel back?
<seb128> nop
<Laney> wtf!
<Laney> it's small today
<Laney> just 6 people
<Laney> but we had a call with robert_ancell today
<Laney> and some stuff that he needs is getting done
<seb128> nice
<seb128> are we going to get an end of week landing with all the nice things that got done during the week? ;-)
 * seb128 is watching a bit git to see what's going on
<Laney> no I won't upload today
<Laney> next week
<Laney> need to rebase our shit
<Laney> attente is still working on some stuff too
<Laney> and me, but might have to be SRU
<mvo> Laney: \o/
<Laney> hey mvo
<Laney> need those .xz translations for appstream ;-)
<Laney> also libapt-pkg is hard
<mvo> Laney: yes and yes
<mvo> Laney: how is it going? still need help? do you wan tto push what you have?
<Laney> mvo: I don't have anything yet
<Laney> I was trying to steal what PK 1.0 does in aptcc
<Laney> cranking the handle now
<mvo> ok
<mvo> Laney: you need to open the cace and iterate over each pkg, that was it, right?
<Laney> mvo: yep
<popey> I just did a clean install of 16.04 and now alt+<key-above-tab> in my case ALT+` no longer works. i can't switch between windows of an app. Is this expected?
<seb128> popey, is your xserver uptodate?
<popey> i dist-upgraded post-install of the daily image but not restarted my session yet
<seb128> popey, seems like the bug fixed yesterday with https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/2:1.18.3-1ubuntu2
<seb128> popey, restart your session then :p
<popey> yay
<popey> thanks
<seb128> yw
<popey> \o/ fixed
<seb128> great, thanks for confirming
<mvo> Laney: git clone https://anonscm.debian.org/git/apt/apt-show-versions.git should give you  a nice minimal example
<mvo> Laney: it uses some outdated api though :/
<Laney> mvo: doesn't build :(
<Laney> apt-show-versions.cc:92:28: error: âstruct pkgCache::PackageFileâ has no member named âArchiveâ
<Laney> etc
<mvo> Laney: hm, let me have a look
<Laney> does it for you?
<mvo> Laney: what information was it again that you need from each pkg? name, version etc? no, same bug
<Laney> mvo: name, version, archive component, release
<Laney> ...possibly other things
<Laney> https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-software/tree/src/plugins/gs-plugin-apt.c?h=wip/rancell/apt#n308
<Laney> here's what he reads currently
<Laney> but that doesn't give you 'universe' or 'xenial'
<mvo> Laney: ok, let me have a look
<Laney> â¥
<Laney> mvo 4eva
<seb128> :-)
<mvo> Laney: http://paste.ubuntu.com/15688636/ should hopefully get you a bit further, please let me know what is missing
<mvo> Laney: oh, universe is missing, hm
<mvo> Laney: http://paste.ubuntu.com/15688693/ should do it
 * qengho hugs cking.
<cking> thanks qengho
<mvo> Laney: and one more http://paste.ubuntu.com/15688891/
<Laney> mvo: great!
<Trevinho> seb128: I was looking at the menus stuff, but in a fresh VM I also never get the nautilus ones showing up... And ups restarting doesn't fix the thing. Instead replacing the xdg-autostart script with an upstart one shows them...
<Trevinho> environment doesn't look much different though
<Trevinho> instead of using upstart, also closing nautilus and restarting it after works... Mh, there's some weird things happening
<seb128> Trevinho, weird
<Trevinho> seb128: do you always get menus in nautilus? In this VM I never get them... then nautilus -q and restart works
<Trevinho> seb128: however, maybe adding a nautilus-desktop upstart job wouldn't be a bad thing, only for unity... so that it gets reloaded also on crashes
<Trevinho> plus, we've the same env vars
<larsu> attente, Laney: did you end up implementing the gnotification thing we talked about yesterday?
<attente> larsu: no, sorry. got caught up in another thing, and we can just distro patch that out for now
<larsu> attente: no worries. Just wondering if I should do it or not. What are you doing in the patch? Checking capabilities?
<larsu> in other news, Alt+` is broken for me :/
<Laney> xorg bug, upgrade
<attente> larsu: yeah, just adding a new enum and functions for getting the capabilities
<Laney> :P
<larsu> enum where?
<larsu> Trevinho: know anything about that? (Alt+` doesn't cycle between windows of the same application anymore)
<attente> larsu: gioenums.h
<attente> larsu: it's still wip
<seb128> Trevinho, yes, they always work for me
<Trevinho> larsu: all I know is that it's a X problem
<larsu> attente: ah ok. Let me know if you need any help
<seb128> larsu, it was fixed yesterday
<attente> larsu: sure, thanks!
<larsu> Trevinho: uh?
<Trevinho> larsu: I mean, they could have broke XKB...
<seb128> larsu, the alt-` thing
<larsu> all the other shortcuts still work...
<seb128> larsu, need to update xserver and restart session
<seb128> larsu, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/2:1.18.3-1ubuntu2
<larsu> seb128:  I updated this morning and the problem started, but I'll try again now
<seb128> larsu, I bet you have 1ubuntu1
<larsu> seb128: no, I have 1ubuntu2 :(
 * larsu reinstalls
<seb128> :-/
<Trevinho> ok, so... seb128 it seems my bug is different from the most common one... Mine is always showing up here, but depending on nautilus itself (just restarting it works, while nautilus is the only app affected). Also there are no hud entries for my nautilus, while people that has bug 1532226 has working HUD (or at  least so it was said)
<ubot5`> bug 1532226 in unity (Ubuntu) "No menu bar in gtk apps on fresh boot" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1532226
<Trevinho> seb128: removing Unity from the nautilus-autostart.desktop file and adding a nautilus-desktop upstart job for unity only seems reasonable to me in any case, though.
<seb128> unsure what difference it makes
<seb128> but feel free to add a patch to a bug
<seb128> sorry I've to go for some erands, going to be backlog when I'm back
<seb128> but that might be a topic for next week instead
<Trevinho> seb128: we can control when it starts, and ensure it gets reloaded on crash
<Trevinho> sure
<Trevinho> seb128: environment is a little different when launching it http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/15691845/
<Trevinho> the XDG_MENU_PREFIX thing doesn't seem to touch anything, though
<larsu> seb128: not sure what happened, but reinstalling xorg-server-source made the problem go away. Thanks for the tip!
<seb128> larsu, yw!
<Laney> mvo: is accessing the OwnerPointer() sane?
<Laney> Want to get InstalledSize and Size from a VerIterator
<dobey> wasn't the CSD alpha issues in gnome apps supposed to be fixed already?
<mvo> Laney: size and installed-size is a bit more work, but entirely doable, I can give you can example in a weeh bit (if you haven't figured it out already). its not in the cache so you need a tagfile and jump to the right offset
<mvo> Laney: just mail me if you need the installsize/size and I update the piece
<qengho> This SpaceX stage isn't coming back to town, sadly. I don't like the barge ones as much.
<qengho> Eh, landing on the moving barge is pretty cool too.
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-04-03
<hikiko> hi
<Trevinho> morning
<allison1> Happy Monday!
<allison1> ....slow morning :p
 * allison1 waits for UK
<flocculant> allison1: morning from the UK - even if I'm not the droid you were looking for :)
<allison1> flocculant: hey :D
<muktupavels> Trevinho: hi, can you review https://code.launchpad.net/~muktupavels/compiz/lp1530277/+merge/321647?
<Trevinho> checks
<Trevinho> muktupavels: that won't override GDK_SCALE?
<muktupavels> Trevinho: I think no, but I will check now
<Trevinho> muktupavels: ack, let me know, in case you might just get the value from the env if set I guess
<muktupavels> Trevinho, device scale must be 1 otherwise you get problems, check screenshot in bug
<muktupavels> GDK_SCALE is now ignored, but at least decorations looks correctly, only not scaled.
<muktupavels> Full fix will require libmetacity 3.26 where I have meta_theme_set_scale.
<willcooke> morning all
<Laney> morgen!
<muktupavels> Trevinho: GDK_SCALE just affects GTK+, and then gdk_window_create_similar_surface will create surface with same device scale.
<Trevinho> muktupavels: ok, let's go with that then
<Trevinho> hi willcooke, Laney
<willcooke> hey Trevinho, how's the weather :)
<Laney> ah, Trevinho on IRC
<Laney> what a GREAT DAY it must be
<willcooke> see Laney, it's *not* a holiday
<Trevinho> AHAHAHA
<Laney> how you getting settled in?
<Laney> :D
<Laney> hey willcooke too
<Trevinho> willcooke: it's always pretty nice, but there are showers here and there... you know tropical weather
<Trevinho> ~30Â° and very humd
<Trevinho> humid*
<Trevinho> but AC here works well :-)
<Trevinho> Laney: yeah, almost... House is very near to the coworking, a little out of the center, but I've already got a scooter
<Laney> good work
<Laney> made some friends?
<Trevinho> Laney: yeah, i'm with a group (http://theremotetrip.com), so... You can make friends pretty quickly.
<b4n> Trevinho: hi
<b4n> Trevinho: Trevinho: could you help with the possible incompatibilities between Unity's XI2 and the changes in  https://code.launchpad.net/~banw/compiz/compiz.a11y-shotcuts/+merge/320091 ?  andyrock tells me you might be able to at least shed some light :)
<allison1> good morning, british people!
<seb128> good morning desktop
<allison1> hi seb
<allison1> good weekend?
<seb128> hey allison1
<seb128> yeah, busy with small house work mostly, but also enjoyed the sunny weather yesterday
<seb128> you?
<allison1> no.  not really.
<allison1> :(
<allison1> maybe next one :)
<seb128> yeah
<Laney> :(
 * Laney hugs allison1 
<Laney> hey seb128
<seb128> hey Laney, how are you?
<Laney> pretty good!
<Laney> had some nice sun time down the allotment
<Laney> and went to someone's 70th(!!!) birthday
 * Laney 's activities are those of a 70 year old these days
<Sweetshark> re and moin
<seb128> hey Sweetshark
<seb128> Laney is becoming a gardening master
<Laney> mostly weeding :(
<Laney> oh yesterday I was lying down in the hammock and drinking tea
<Sweetshark> getting 3177 mails rn. on the first account.
<Laney> hey Sweetshark
<Laney> mark all as read
<Laney> if it's important you'll get another one
<Laney> happy to be back?
<seb128> Sweetshark, has was the camping?
<seb128> how*
<Sweetshark> Laney: gardening master? interesting! TBH I not having to do gardening made me go for a simple appartment instead of a house ...
<Laney> it's good for mind, body and soul!
 * Laney foraged some wild garlic & nettles on the way home too
<Laney> soup for lunch today
<Sweetshark> seb128: camping was ... not like I remember it from childhood: <insert whining about cold weather and uncomfortable beds>. But the last two days were quite awesome as the weather improved. I visited https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skamlingsbanken on the way back, its well worth the visit.
<Sweetshark> Anyway, this was just a testdrive essentially. Driving around such a big Diesel truck requires some training, esp. if you want to take it to camping sites, were roads arent always the best. Im feeling wellpreprared for a longer summer trip (would put a better matress in the van for that though).
<flexiondotorg> Morning desktopers
<willcooke> hey flexiondotorg
<seb128> hey flexiondotorg willcooke
<Trevinho> b4n: I can see
<b4n> thanks
<seb128> hey Trevinho! how are you? enjoying the cool work space? ;-)
<Trevinho> hey seb128... Yeah, it's nice... And a thunderstorm is coming soon, so good time for working :-D
<seb128> haha
<Trevinho> b4n: well, can you give a look at unity's unity-shared/InputMonitor.cpp ?
<Trevinho> b4n: basically that is doing a similar thing, but at unity level...
<Trevinho> So you might instead port it to compiz (as it's pretty generic)
<Trevinho> and then we  could use it in unity gtoo
<b4n> Trevinho: yeah I saw it, but I'm noly using raw events so IIUC it shouldn' tinterfere too much
<Trevinho> as, the current implementation, I'm not sure weather will cause some troubles...
<Trevinho> Like, it's quite possible that the motion detection will stop working there as unity disables that once the last client that needs it has left
<Trevinho> as for the raw events, there shouldn't be problems..
<Trevinho> But in general we could just move that InputMonitor to Compiz, and expand it to use for your needs..
<b4n> Trevinho: one thing I didn't investigate yet and am not sure about, is whether that inputmonitor is using GDK a filter or X directly
<Trevinho> b4n: X directly
<b4n> that would be great I guess
<b4n> k
<b4n> ah, one thing that might be the root of al problems is that X's API to get the event data is very bad for multiple clients
<Trevinho> Well, actually we get that using a Nux event monitor, but it's actually X
<Trevinho> Yeah, not being based on callbacks, it would cause troubles indeed
<Trevinho> b4n: as an alternative, I could just use compiz events, but not sure that some of them might be filtered and thus causing problems
<b4n> some might with Compiz's actios handling I guess
<Trevinho> I mean, compiz HandleEvent function shouldn't remove any event... And in that case we could just use that... But still it would be just better to have something like InputMonitor inside compiz at this point
<b4n> how easy do you think it would be to move inputmonitor to Compiz for you or me?  and also, how do you see the non-grab actions being registered/triggered wit htha scheme?
<Trevinho> I didn't do that in the past, as no one seemed to need it for compiz, thus I just implemented in unity, although it's really generic... And a part few calls, it can just moved somewhere else and used to convert XI2 events to normal Xevents
<Trevinho> Well, they will work indeed using this
<b4n> my point is that not *all* actions should be triggered during grabs
<Trevinho> I also wanted to use the input manager for more key actions in unity, so... it's not a bad thing
<b4n> like in the lock screen, you don't want things like switcher to work
<Trevinho> sure, but we disable that anwyay in unity
<Trevinho> In our case, we just disable most of compiz actions...
<b4n> my approach was to make actions opt-in for XI2 events
<Trevinho> yeah, I see
<Trevinho> and that's fine
<Trevinho> Maybe adding even some configurability at that level would be nice, but UI would miss that
<Trevinho> unless you don't change also some compizconfig stuff
<b4n> bah, I'm not really sure it makes much sense fo rthe user to really choose
<b4n> it would be nice I guess, but I don't see that as a requirement
<Trevinho> Well, sure.. But for custom actions, for example...
<Trevinho> anwyay, really not important
<b4n> fair point
<Trevinho> Anyway basically I was just doing something similar you did... It's I was also using some C++ templates to avoid redoundant code, so basically i'm generating events quite easily for any type of them
<b4n> I saw that, pretty nice
<b4n> I guess your code is far better than mine, esp. as it doesn't seem riddled with FIXMEs :)
<b4n> however, at this point my concern about inputmonitor is that IIUC it listens to non-raw XI2 events, and basically forwards them all.  In that case, how do you know/handle non-XI2 grabs?
<Trevinho> It has some c++11, but still it's something we now use in compiz anyway
<b4n> or do you willingly ignore all grabs?
<b4n> yeah
<Trevinho> No, we enable the input monitor only if there are callbacks wanting some kind of events...
<Trevinho> So, in case of actions, I guess, that it could be done the same... When an action needs  that, you can just add a callback and then it will just use it
<b4n> yeah, but simply listening for XI2 events stops Core ones on that window
<b4n> so if you forward the events, how do you know whether there was a core grab or not?
<b4n> or don't you forward the Core version of the event in any way?
<ricotz> Sweetshark, heya
<ricotz> Sweetshark, I assume you will prepare the final 5.3.2 this week. so I am going to copy the 5.3.2~rc2 builds to the PPAs
<ricotz> note that I pushed a small fix to git
<Sweetshark> ricotz: yes. thanks. /me still wades through backlog. Do you have a link for the small fix so can put it aside for later ...
<ricotz> Sweetshark, it is pushed to the ubuntu-zesty-5.3 branch
<Sweetshark> ricotz: what issue is that change supposed to fix?
<ricotz> Sweetshark, really?, it is a mismerge and the corresponding Suggests points to libreoffice-help (= 5.3)
<hikiko> alan_g, hello
<hikiko> are you around?
<alan_g> hikiko: ?
<hikiko> hey :)
<hikiko> alan_g, remember miral crashed inside my schroot?
<alan_g> I do
<hikiko> I did some minor changes in miral and it seems to work well now
<hikiko> the problem is I am not sure they are correct
<hikiko> would you mind to get a look in my diff?
<hikiko> it's very short
<alan_g> There were two problems. One is fixed, the other was in Mir.
<hikiko> I've found 2 in miral
<hikiko> not sure
<alan_g> "fixed" as in committed and in a silo
<hikiko> do you want to see?
<alan_g> Sure
<hikiko> https://paste.ubuntu.com/24306422/
<hikiko> the first problem I have is that it couldn't find the cursor theme
<hikiko> had*
<hikiko> https://pastebin.com/31DdpmYg
<hikiko> and I solved it by returning a software cursor instead of throwing an exception (last change in diff)
<hikiko> the other one
<hikiko> was this: https://pastebin.com/2kACdwRr
<hikiko> and I am not so sure my fix is fine but I noticed that auto line was trying to convert the raw line to wide string causing exceptions for some text... also when I was printing it on gdb it seemed to have garbage inside
<hikiko> this change seemed to fix it
<alan_g> The last one looks like bug 1677550 - which is fixed. (Committed and in silo 2676)
<ubot5> bug 1677550 in MirAL "if you update to zesty's libstdc++-6-dev then miral-shell will crash when trying to draw its background text" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1677550
<hikiko> alan_g, could be
<alan_g> You got -r 545
<alan_g> ?
<alan_g> On the other problem: I don't see that loading a different cursor than the one asked for is the correct behaviour.
<hikiko> alan_g, then, is there another option instead of exiting with exception?
<hikiko> i have installed default cursors etc
<hikiko> but miral doesnt run because it can't find them
<alan_g> I was going to say, I thought the depended on the cursor theme.
<alan_g> I was going to say, I thought the *package* depended on the cursor theme.
<hikiko> https://pastebin.com/31DdpmYg that's the message I get
<hikiko> alan_g, it did there was a bug report on that and a branch of yours that fixes it
<hikiko> I have dmz-cursor-theme installed
 * alan_g wonders why it isn't found
<hikiko> but miral still crashes with that message
<alan_g> Could you strace and see where it looks?
<hikiko> alan_g, sure, I just don't know how to strace
<hikiko> give me a few minutes :)
<alan_g> strace miral-shell 2>&1 | grep open
<alan_g> Normally we see something like http://paste.ubuntu.com/24306579/
<hikiko> alan_g, ok reverted https://paste.ubuntu.com/24306585/
<hikiko> that's when I run my local build
<hikiko> maybe I should paste the output of the system's miral too
<alan_g> Here's the problem: open("/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/icons/default/cursors/", O_RDONLY|O_NONBLOCK|O_DIRECTORY|O_CLOEXEC) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
<alan_g> You don't have any cursors in your schroot
<hikiko> but I've installed the dmz-cursor-theme :S
<alan_g> Hmm, sorry read that wrong
<alan_g> hikiko: do you have XCURSOR_PATH set?
<GunnarHj> seb128: I see that langpack building for xenial has started to work in the PPA.
<seb128> GunnarHj, did they? interesting
<seb128> I didn't change anything
<hikiko> alan_g, $ echo $XCURSOR_PATH
<seb128> GunnarHj, btw did you see that I uploaded zesty ones on friday?
<hikiko> returns nothing
<GunnarHj> seb128: Weird. But good. :)
<hikiko> so probably no alan_g
<GunnarHj> seb128: No, I haven't seen anything zesty yet. Where?
<seb128> GunnarHj, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/language-pack-de-base/ for example
<seb128> GunnarHj, see the zesty lines, there is a "proposed" version
<seb128> GunnarHj, works on any locale, you just need to change the "de" by your locale
<alan_g> hikiko: "$ cat /usr/share/icons/default/index.theme" - do you have that set to breeze_cursors?
<seb128> GunnarHj, some testing would be welcome, maybe worth emailing the translators list about, I did basic checking on the fr ones but that's about it
<alan_g> I have Inherits=DMZ-White
<hikiko> [Icon Theme]
<hikiko> Name=Breeze
<hikiko> seems so
<hikiko> Inherits=breeze_cursors
<alan_g> And breeze isn't installed in the schroot?
<hikiko> it is
<hikiko> I installed cursors*
<alan_g> Humor me and try Inherits=DMZ-White
<GunnarHj> seb128: Asking the translators about testing in the dev release would be a new thing. Do you think it's necessary? (I can install and review Swedish if you like.)
<seb128> GunnarHj, well, I don't know if a call for testing is necessary but having some people trying some locales would be nice since that machinery was buggy for a while and there could be still issues/bugs
<seb128> GunnarHj, so yeah, if you want to test the ones for the locale you use that would be welcome :-)
<hikiko> alan_g, that works, but the system installed miral that doesn't have your fix (I think) gives now the 2nd exception
<GunnarHj> seb128: I'll do that to start with. Please note that the ubuntu-docs translations is not included in this one, so a build of a later full export will be necessary.
<seb128> GunnarHj, that's a full export, do you know why it's missing and how to get it included in the next export?
<alan_g> hikiko: yes, the fix is in a silo awaiting QA
<hikiko> alan_g, I pulled latest miral and I am reverting all my changes to see if dmz-white+your fix => miral working again
<GunnarHj> seb128: It's about timing. That export was on March 28, and ubuntu-docs was built on March 31.
<seb128> k
<seb128> so it has the translations but outdated?
<hikiko> alan_g, it's back
<hikiko> :D
<hikiko> thanks
<alan_g> hikiko: I guess there's a cursor problem with the Breeze theme.
<alan_g> hikiko: "it's back" - the problem?
<hikiko> alan_g, I only installed breeze after I got the miral crash
<GunnarHj> seb128: So there may be a need to check the "request a full language pack export" option at https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/zesty/+language-packs
<seb128> GunnarHj, noted
<hikiko> no, I mean it works ok now, alan_g, problem solved
<hikiko> but it can't be breeze
 * alan_g wonders why
<hikiko> because at the beginning I only had the dmz cursor installed
<hikiko> nothing else
<hikiko> and I was having the problem
<hikiko> when I saw that I can't fix it
<hikiko> I installed cursors*
<hikiko> to see if miral can detect any of them
<hikiko> unfortunately I don't know what my index.theme had inside by then
<hikiko> certainly not DMZ-White
<hikiko> maybe the cursor wasn't set at all
<alan_g> Yeah, the diagnostics from xcursor_load_theme() leave something to be desired.
<GunnarHj> seb128: There is a problem: You must build/upload the language-pack-XX and language-pack-gnome-XX packages too, not just the -base packages. Currently I can't install the Swedish base packages because of unmet dependencies.
<alan_g> hikiko: did reconfiguring the cursor theme also resolve bug 1677523?
<ubot5> bug 1677523 in Mir "mir_demo_server segfaults in schroot" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1677523
<attente> Laney: heyo
<hikiko> alan_g, I forgot this report should be marked as invalid
<attente> Laney: would you be able to sponsor https://code.launchpad.net/~attente/unity-gtk-module/blacklist-anjuta/+merge/319589
<hikiko> I had forgotten to mount /usr/run/1000 in the chroot
<hikiko> and only root could run mir
<alan_g> hikiko: great. Another bug bites the dust.
<seb128> GunnarHj, hum, k, I don't know how to do that :-/
<seb128> that's what the langpack job generates
<GunnarHj> seb128: Basically they should be empty, but they must exist...
<seb128> GunnarHj, do you know how to build those?
<GunnarHj> seb128: No, I have no idea.
<seb128> :-(
<seb128> me neither
<GunnarHj> seb128: It's soon an emergency. Ask pitti?
<seb128> I guess you just did
<GunnarHj> seb128: Aha, didn't know he is still listening here...
<seb128> he's still on the channel, dunno if he's "listening"
<GunnarHj> seb128: Looking here:
<GunnarHj> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-langpack/+members
<GunnarHj> Maybe sil2100 is able to help?
<seb128> I doubt it
<seb128> I don't think he's familiar with the langpackomatic job
<sil2100> I only know langpack-o-matic for the ubuntu-touch use-case, but let me read the backlog
<sil2100> hm, I don't know how to do that straight away, but let me take a look and maybe try to figure it out
<GunnarHj> seb128, sil2100: A workaround might be to create dummy packages manually. But there would be quite a few of those...
<seb128> sil2100, GunnarHj, hum, I've an idea
<seb128> let me try that
<seb128> pitti, unping
<Laney> GunnarHj: It won't soon be an emergency. Those things won't migrate out of proposed.
<Laney> You should stop running zesty-proposed too
<pitti> seb128, GunnarHj: sorry, ECONTEXT -- why were teh -gnome packages uploaded/copied but not the base packages?
<Laney> pitti: Other way around
<Laney> (hi!)
<GunnarHj> Laney: I know, but not so many days remain before release.
<GunnarHj> Laney: (I only enable -proposed when there is a reason.)
<GunnarHj> pitti: The -base packages were built/uploaded, but not the delta packages.
<pitti> oh, that's much worse indeed; how could that happen
<pitti> were they built by langpack-o-matic?
<pitti> (I don't have access to the infra any more)
<GunnarHj> pitti: seb128 is the only one who can answer that.
<Laney> He unpinged too, so I would say that we should hold off a bit
<seb128> pitti, hey, probably because I sucked at understanding http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-langpack/langpack-o-matic/main/view/head:/doc/operator-guide.txt
<seb128> pitti, but I've been hitting a stack of issues and "./packages upload" did nothing so I ended up doing a manual dput
<seb128> pitti, I did the different steps manually as you recommended, but I think if you build without doing the upload it wipes the "updated-packages" list
<seb128> then upload think it has nothing to upload
<seb128> I should maybe have wipped and redone the whole dance then, rather than trying to just do the upload step
<pitti> seb128: ah -- what you can do is something like ls ../zesty/sources-base/* ../zesty/sources-update/* > updated
<pitti> seb128: to reconstruct a "changed package" list, if you built from scratch
<pitti> (obviously not for an update)
<pitti> seb128: i. e. you just dput the -base ones, but not the update ones? you can still do that then
<seb128> pitti, right, thanks, I found my way around, I just ended up dputting the content of the -base and not -update
<seb128> right
<seb128> I didn't realize at first that both dirs were needed
<seb128> I though -base was for a full export
<seb128> and -update was for --update rounds
<seb128> pitti, thanks for the reply!
<pitti> de rien !
<Laney> nice!
<seb128> pitti, how are you otherwise? still having fun with js&co? ;-)
<pitti> seb128: right now I'm actually having fun with a bug in Ubuntu 16.04's pbuilder :)
<pitti> but JS too of course :)
<GunnarHj> AFK for the next 2 hours or so. See you guys later or tomorrow.
<Laney> See you GunnarHj
<seb128> bye GunnarHj
<attente> jbicha: hey, would you be able to look at this branch when you have time? https://code.launchpad.net/~attente/gtk/gtk-mir/+merge/321739
<Laney> attente: sry got distracted, sure can do
<attente> Laney: np, thanks a lot :*
<Laney> is_known_setting () is quite a thing
<Laney> g_strv_contains ()?
<attente> good idea...
<Laney> is there a bug for the anjuta thing?
<attente> no, i was told directly about it through email
<attente> i'll file one now
<Laney> it's ok
<Laney> just would have linked it to the mp if there was
<Laney> no need
<attente> ok, thanks
<attente> it's here now anyways in case you want to use it: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-gtk-module/+bug/1679236
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1679236 in unity-gtk-module (Ubuntu) "Anjuta crashes when creating a window in the UI editor" [Undecided,New]
<Laney> attente: https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2690 please test the PPA once built then someone can publish for you or I can tomorrow morning
<Laney> night!
<willcooke> night Laney
 * Laney prints the quiptic
<Laney> in for a rock and roll evening :>
<attente> thanks Laney, that PPA fixes it
<robert_ancell> willcooke, hi
<willcooke> morning robert_ancell
<willcooke> night all
<jbicha> mterry: why is the latest ubuntu-terminal-app not in zesty?
<mterry> jbicha: I don't know...  there was a silo for it at one point...
<jbicha> the new version looks a lot nicer :)
<jbicha> mterry: oh, never mind, it's in unapproved
<mterry> jbicha: it is nicer, yeah!  :(
<mterry> :)
<mterry> I mean
<jbicha> I assumed the :( was because it was still unapproved
<mterry> Heh, then both do apply I guess :)
<jbicha> I've got a mp for ubuntu-terminal, who should I ping to review it?
<mterry> jbicha: I'd say Kaleo (Florian)
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-04-04
<hikiko> hi
<willcooke> morning all
<didrocks> good morning willcooke!
<Laney> ahoy
<Laney> couldn't find my laptop just then /o\
<willcooke> hey Laney didrocks
<didrocks> hey hey Laney!
<Laney> hey willcooke hey didrocks!
<Laney> what's new
<Laney> jbicha: please commit that gtk-doc fix to debian
<didrocks> nothing much, writing some tests today :)
<didrocks> you?
<Laney> hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
<Laney> no nothing at all!
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<willcooke> morning seb128
<flexiondotorg> Morning all
<seb128> sorry a bit late, we have workers here to fix our shower which is leaking (not an easy fix unfortunatelly, they need to remove the glass panels, redrill the wall, etc)
<seb128> they arrived just as I was about to start IRC
<seb128> hey willcooke flexiondotorg Laney, how is u.k today?
 * flexiondotorg opens the curtains
<Laney> not still bathroom problems?!?
<Laney> hi seb128 & flexiondotorg!
<flexiondotorg> Grey
<seb128> Laney, yeah, there was a structural error made with the shower and there is no workaround patch that is working
<seb128> so we get it properly fixed now
<seb128> which is basically removing the panels, filling the drill gaps in the wall, moving the panel, doing new drills, redoing some tiling and then putting the panel back
<Laney> annoying
<Laney> hope you don't have to do any decorating to fix that and that it works!
<seb128> should be good but let's see
<Trevinho> seb128: hey
<Trevinho> seb128: you should check https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/unity-control-center/unity-lowgfx-support/+merge/321827
<Trevinho> andyrock: unity side, when you want https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/unity/lowgfx-profile-setter/+merge/321834
<Trevinho> hikiko: both ^
<andyrock> Trevinho: i'll take a look
<hikiko> +I ll look at it later
<bregma> hey desktoppers can anyone tell me where the ubuntu-desktop comes from? Is it simply germinated from a Ubuntu seed?
<flexiondotorg> bregma, Yes it is.
<Laney> lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu.zesty
<bregma> swell, thanks
<flexiondotorg> bregma Also, love your work in the Phoronix comments ;-)
<bregma> it's a weird hobby
<ogra> yeah
<flexiondotorg> Made my morning coffee that much more enjoyable.
<flexiondotorg> I made popcorn.
<ogra> lol
<bregma> I read phoronix the way people go to bars to pick fights
<bregma> anyway, my next question is if anyone (seb128 maybe) is working to create a Unity 8 desktop meta-package from the seeds in the same way as unity-desktop
<Laney> can't say for sure, but I doubt it
<jbicha> Laney: you want me to push that patch to gtk-doc/experimental then?
<GunnarHj> seb128: Hi Seb!
<GunnarHj> I installed the new langpacks for zesty successfully. But I'm a bit confused. Unlike what I thought, the ubuntu-docs translations seem to be up-to-date. Did you grab a fresh langpack build and uploaded that? Is the package names wrong wrt the the date of the langpack creation?
<seb128> Trevinho, sorry I overlooked your ping in the backlog after lunch, you know that you can do "request another review" on launchpad right?
<seb128> hey GunnarHj, thanks for testing!
<seb128> GunnarHj, I used the first export from https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/zesty/+language-packs (bottom right corner)
<seb128> it has been done at the date indicated
<seb128> but maybe the strings didn't change that much since previous cycle?
<GunnarHj> seb128: Weird. I looked specifically at a few new strings. There must be something I have misunderstood then.
<seb128> when have those strings been uploaded?
<seb128> or maybe the ubuntu-docs template is using the one from the vcs which was uptodate before the package upload?
<seb128> oh
<GunnarHj> seb128: The translations I looked at were submitted to LP around March 23, but the package was built only on March 31. I thought that the package build made the translations available for the langpack builder.
<seb128> replying to the u8 question from earlier, I'm not working on that and I don't think anyone here is, unsure that's something needed since there is already an unity8-mir-session binary and the env is pre-installed, but if somebody feels the need and want to work on it there is no reason they couldn't try
<GunnarHj> seb128: What I'm talking about it specific to ubuntu-docs and other docs stuff where the translations are provided in hardcoded XML files and not dynamically via MO files.
<seb128> GunnarHj, do you have an example of string?
<GunnarHj> seb128: I'm not on zesty now. Will check it out again, and get back to you.
<seb128> k
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> in any case we have langpacks which are working
<seb128> and we can generate a new round tomorrow if needed
<GunnarHj> seb128: Indeed. I just want to understand why it's working. :)
<seb128> if you give me an example of string that you think is new in zesty and shouldn't be in there I can try to have a look and understandf what's going on
<GunnarHj> seb128: Right. I'll give you an example later.
<seb128> k
<Laney> jbicha: well, why do we need it in Ubuntu?
<jbicha> it's a one-line fix and it's just one less thing for the gnome3 staging ppa
<Laney> hmm
<Laney> you wouldn't ask the Debian release team to include a patch for that reason
<jbicha> right, but I thought it might be acceptable for the Ubuntu release teamâ¦
<willcooke> back
<GunnarHj> seb128: Take this page as an example:
<GunnarHj> /usr/share/help-langpack/sv/ubuntu-help/net-install-flash.page
<GunnarHj> It's provided by language-pack-gnome-sv-base 1:17.04+20170321.
<GunnarHj> The page was rewritten to a large extent, most of the Swedish translations were added to LP on March 22 and 23, but that shouldn't help, since we are talkning about a hardcoded XML file.
<GunnarHj> The current version of the Swedish net-install-flash.page was created when ubuntu-docs was built on March 31, and stripped via pkgstriptranslations. So in my world it couldn't have been available to the langpack builder before then.
<GunnarHj> What am I missing?
<seb128> GunnarHj, good question...
<GunnarHj> seb128: It just struck me... Can it be that those XML files are not included in the langpack tarballs, but are pulled somehow when the language packs are built?
<GunnarHj> seb128: That would explain the mystery...
<Laney> does it get them from the upstream translations?
<Laney> if they're shared with the source or something
<GunnarHj> Laney: No, that specific page is Ubuntu specific.
<Laney> what does that mean?
<GunnarHj> Laney: I modified it for ubuntu-docs without bothering about any upstream.
<Laney> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-docs/trunk/+pots/ubuntu-help/en_GB/+translate?batch=10&show=all&search=install+Flash
<Laney> that upstream
<GunnarHj> Laney: Aha, you mean the trunk. Yes, it's indeed shared with zesty, but I can't see how it would explain anything.
<Laney> Where else would they have come from?
<GunnarHj> Laney: In my world the translated docs pages come from the ubuntu-docs build process and pkgstriptranslations. The langpack builder isn't reasonably capable of created those pages on its own.
<Laney> BAH
<Laney> GUNNARRRRRRRRR COME BACKKK
<GunnarHj> seb128, Laney: I downloaded the whole tarball from https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/zesty/+language-packs (version 2017-03-22), and rosetta-zesty/sv/LC_MESSAGES/ubuntu-help.po does not include the latest translations (of course). I suspect that such ubuntu-help.po files are ignored, and that the language-pack-gnome-XX-base packages get the XML files from somewhere else at the time when they are built, and irrespective o
<GunnarHj> f which tarball is used for building the MO files for other packages. Does that make sense?
<Laney> GunnarHj: You went away :)
<Laney> lp:langpack-o-matic downloads the custom tarballs when it's building the langpacks
<GunnarHj> Laney: Yeah, bad internet connection.
<GunnarHj> Laney: Right, but the tarballs don't include the XML files. It must reasonably get them from somewhere else.
<Laney> https://paste.ubuntu.com/24313763/
<Laney> those are downloaded when you build the source packages I think
<GunnarHj> Laney: Okay.. *Those* tarballs should indeed include the XML files which were stripped at the build of ubuntu-docs. And that's the latest version (17.04.3) from March 31.
<Laney> Neat, we got there
<Laney> lp:langpack-o-matic for future reference then
<GunnarHj> seb128, Laney: So in that case we currently have MO files based on translations up to March 21, and translated XML files for ubuntu-docs from March 31.
<willcooke> Laney, seb128 - just fwd'd you guys an email about some FFes - could you take a look and advise
<GunnarHj> Laney: Thanks for your help to solve the mystery. But can you explain how you got that pastebin info from lp:langpack-o-matic?
<Laney> willcooke: Is it the ones that were pinged about a few minutes ago and I already opened at that point?
<Laney> GunnarHj: I read the code and then I typed a version of it into ipython
<GunnarHj> Laney: Ok, the long way. I hoped you had found some kind of documentation. :) Thanks.
<Laney> willcooke: so yeh, looking already, thanks!
<willcooke> thanks Laney, sorry for pinging on IRC as well but wanted to be certain you saw it
 * allison1 blinks
<willcooke> aieee
<willcooke> #startmeeting Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-04-04
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Apr  4 15:31:19 2017 UTC.  The chair is willcooke. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-04-04 | Current topic:
<Laney> GunnarHj: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/TranslationLifecycle/LanguagePackGeneration#The_import_script
<willcooke> Roll call: andyrock, attente, desrt,  dgadomski, fjkong, flexiondotorg, happyaron, hikiko (out), laney, qengho, seb128, sweet5hark, themuso (out), tkamppeter, trevinho (out), robert_ancell (out)
<flexiondotorg> o/
 * Sweetshark waves.
<andyrock> o/
<allison1> o\
<qengho> Oh man.
<qengho> allison1: nick troubles?
<allison1> seemingly
<willcooke> oh, my bad, copy and paste from an old list
<willcooke> fixed
<allison1> the matrix is... weird
<willcooke> which is the "real" active nick allison1?
<allison[m]> let's go with this
<willcooke> ack
<willcooke> Right, let's go...
<willcooke> #topic andyrock
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-04-04 | Current topic: andyrock
<andyrock> hey
<andyrock> nothing special this week, basically helping with the review of the compiz a11y branches
<andyrock> now I'm back on cr
<andyrock> eof
<willcooke> thanks andyrock
<willcooke> #topic attente
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-04-04 | Current topic: attente
<attente> gtk-mir bugs, hoping this can be merged, sponsored: https://code.launchpad.net/~attente/gtk/gtk-mir/+merge/321739
<attente> (eof)
<willcooke> thanks attente
<willcooke> #topic allison[m]
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-04-04 | Current topic: allison[m]
<allison[m]> hey
<allison[m]> this week has been a bit of a wash but last week was pretty cool
<allison[m]> wrote a really cool efficient dispatcher for dconf change notification events... basically, let's the proxy be used by several confined applications at once
<allison[m]> eof.
<willcooke> thanks allison[m]
<willcooke> #topic dgadomski
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-04-04 | Current topic: dgadomski
<dgadomski> hey
<dgadomski> * working on a custom bluez agent to compensate for the deprecated pincodes-file functionality for legacy pairing
<dgadomski> * testing updated patch for bug #1646585
<ubot5> bug 1646585 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Zesty) "oem-config replaces /etc/resolv.conf symlink with a hard file" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1646585
<dgadomski> eof
<willcooke> thanks dgadomski
<willcooke> #topic FJKong
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-04-04 | Current topic: FJKong
<willcooke> FJKong, please let me have your updates via email
<willcooke> #topic flexiondotorg
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-04-04 | Current topic: flexiondotorg
<flexiondotorg> Hi
<flexiondotorg> Working on about a dozen snap with ISVs.
<flexiondotorg> Made a snap of yarn.
<flexiondotorg> Testing the snap of snapcraft.
<flexiondotorg> Snapcraft docs day.
<flexiondotorg> Writing presentations for Nodejs, Python and IoT meetups.
<flexiondotorg> And giving them.
<flexiondotorg> eof
<willcooke> thanks flexiondotorg
<willcooke> #topic happyaron
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-04-04 | Current topic: happyaron
<willcooke> Gonna assume happyaron is in bed.  Please let me have your update via email
<willcooke> #topic hikiko
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-04-04 | Current topic: hikiko
<willcooke> - chromium:
<willcooke> -- blocked because of some changes in mir/miral, worked a little in miral code, finally fixed my problems with the help of Alan G. (he also fixed some segfaults in a branch)
<willcooke> - unity:
<willcooke> --worked a little on bugs today (+managed to record the grab edge case in a friend's computer: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1679609)
<willcooke> -- reviewing stuff
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1679609 in unity (Ubuntu) "dash fails to grab mouse in some edge cases" [Undecided,New]
<willcooke> EOF
<willcooke> #topic Laney
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-04-04 | Current topic: Laney
<Laney> â¢ Short week; off for 1.5 days
<Laney> â¢ Queue reviews, FFe reviews, lots of times over
<Laney> â¢ gnome-software patches (master, for 17.10):
<Laney> â fix installing from URLs (apt://foo), needed fixup for not-found packages
<Laney> â fix the above to display an error when necessary; waiting for a designer to give an error string
<Laney> â¢ autopkgtest: a bit of babysitting due to some acid rain in the cloud
<Laney> â¢ try to help debug / push some things through britney into zesty
<Laney> ð¶
<willcooke> thanks Laney
<willcooke> #topic qengho
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-04-04 | Current topic: qengho
<qengho> * Gave Cr 57 to #security for upload for X,Y,Z.
<qengho> * Having troubles with Cr on T. Probably a ld.bfd linker bug that is fixed in X+'s versions.
<qengho> EOF
<willcooke> thanks qengho
<willcooke> #topic seb128
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-04-04 | Current topic: seb128
<seb128> â¢ some more fiddling with langpack builders to get a working set of debs for zesty (the stats job is still owned by dpm and hasn't been updated for the new serie)
<seb128> â¢ joined sponsoring queue squashing party day
<seb128> â¢ launchpad & e.u.c triaging
<seb128> â¢ zesty iso testing
<seb128> â¢ started reviewing u-c-c low-gfx changes
<seb128> </week>
<willcooke> thanks seb128
<willcooke> #topic Sweetshark
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-04-04 | Current topic: Sweetshark
<Sweetshark> - was on vacation for 1 week
<Sweetshark> - tied some lose ends around that: Periguia Hackfest, TDF project budget approvals & tenders
<Sweetshark> - so mostly just dragging myself through the backlog
<Sweetshark> - bug 1662227 indeed looks bad though, should get a FFe IMHO (thankfully there is already a fix by r_icotz committed my absence)
<ubot5> bug 1662227 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "Error with command "apt-get update" when using versioned "Provides:" (apt is too old to support that case)" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1662227
<Sweetshark> EOF
<willcooke> thanks Sweetshark
<willcooke> 10 4 good buddy
<willcooke> #topic TheMuso
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-04-04 | Current topic: TheMuso
<willcooke> * Heard from Konrad with an update for pulse in Xenial. Package is available for testing at ppa:ubuntu-audio-dev/pulse-testing, and has patches for fixing/improving bluetooth, which is backports of fixes from upstream. I am concerned that one of the patches touches core pulse code and code in the ALSA module, but those changes are small, and that code is in newer upstream releases in yakkety etc and it seems to be ok there.
<willcooke> * More debugging of the accessibility issues I previously reported about in Unity 7. After talking to Robert, it may have something to do with the lightdm greeters, started setting up a test install to try and test this more thoroughly.
<willcooke> * Noticed a bug with zesty and ubiquity re accessibility, I think it has to do with the above, because everything is ok if I kill and restart at-spi. Getting to the bottom of the zesty unity 7 accessibility bug as above should resolve this properly.
<willcooke> #topic tkamppeter
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-04-04 | Current topic: tkamppeter
<tkamppeter> - system-config-printer: Checked whether text-only fallback works with new textonly PPD in cups-printers. It does. No changes needed.
<tkamppeter> - Common Print Dialog: The Canonical Unity 8 team has already implemented the Qt GUI designed for Ubuntu. Students will then more work on inner works, like D-Bus interface and common printing system access backends.
<tkamppeter> - Google Summer of Code 2017: Student application period has terminated, sorted out the applications. OpenPrinting will have 7 or 8 students depending on slots we will get from Google.
<tkamppeter> - Bugs.
<willcooke> thanks tkamppeter
<willcooke> #topic Trevinho
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-04-04 | Current topic: Trevinho
<willcooke> Â· Almost off for travelling the past week
<willcooke> Â· Improved the compiz config profile selector in unity
<willcooke> Â· Removed the parts of compiz config from unity-control-center
<willcooke> Â· Proposed unity, compiz, u-c-c branches and done a silo
<willcooke> Â· Some more contacts to get the nextcloud client in the store
<willcooke> Â· Backported to trusty an annoying indicator-calendar crash fix
<willcooke>  /EOD
<willcooke> #topic robert_ancell
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-04-04 | Current topic: robert_ancell
<willcooke> - Chasing down bugs from errors.ubuntu.com and upstreaming / SRUing where possible.
<willcooke> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-04-04 | Current topic: AOB
<willcooke> I'm off tomorrow.  Got to go to a funeral.
<willcooke> Please do some ISO testing
<willcooke> Anyone got anything else to share?
<willcooke> Oh, and please see email re: 17.10 work and add anything you would like to work on to the list
<willcooke> Closing the meeting in 20... 19....
<willcooke> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Apr  4 15:48:15 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2017/ubuntu-desktop.2017-04-04-15.31.moin.txt
<willcooke> thanks all
<seb128> thanks
<Laney> YEAH!!!!
<attente> thanks
<attente> Laney: hey, is there a reason https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2690 is unapproved? is it because it's too late?
<Laney> Everything's going through review now
<muktupavels> allison[m]: can you please review new patches in https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=746592
<ubot5> Gnome bug 746592 in gsettings "Support for per-session overrides" [Normal,Reopened]
<attente> ok, thanks
<GunnarHj> Laney: Thanks for pointing at the LanguagePackGeneration page. Yes, there was a hint, at least. ;) (Last updated 2010-03-16, many references to Karmic. Hmm...)
<GunnarHj> seb128: Now when we understand why the docs translations are up-to-date, I suppose it's time to worry about the other packages. LanguagePackTranslationDeadline is on Thursday, so we need some kind of langpack update after that. I suppose there are two options:
<GunnarHj> 1. Requesting a full language pack export and build/upload everything again.
<GunnarHj> 2. Setting 2017-03-22 as the "language pack base" on https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/zesty/+language-packs so a delta language pack gets exported, and only build/upload that.
<Laney> You want the last one before release to be a full one, don't you?
 * Laney says without knowing much about such things
<GunnarHj> Laney: Maybe, probably. I think that's how it has been done in previous cycles.
<Laney> so that the SRUs are as small as possible
<Laney> not sure if we do those for non-LTS releases though
<GunnarHj> Laney: We haven't for the latest non-LTS releases.
<seb128> we can do another full export I guess
<seb128> GunnarHj, did you understand the ubuntu-doc being uptodate?
<seb128> GunnarHj, https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/zesty/+language-packs got a new tarball today so maybe we use that?
<GunnarHj> seb128: Yes, I think so. Laney pointed at the ubuntu-docs tarball with the static XML files, which was used at the time you built/uploaded.
<seb128> I missed that part of the backlog I guess
<seb128> but good that you figured it out
<GunnarHj> seb128: Today's tarball is too early, isn't it? Deadline is on Thursday 21.00 UTC.
<GunnarHj> * I know I'm a PITA *
<seb128> well I guess we can try to ask the launchpad admin to kick manually an export after that
<seb128> I think p_itti used to do that
<GunnarHj> seb128: I think that would be good. Out of respect for all the translators out there.
<seb128> wfm
<seb128> so meanwhile we do nothing and wait right? ;-)
<GunnarHj> seb128: Suppose so. The current langpacks seem to be correct in a technical sense.
<seb128> good
<seb128> they migrated to zesty proposed now as well
<seb128> so I'm going to give a round of testing to the iso tomorrow
<attente> jbicha: would you be able to look at https://code.launchpad.net/~attente/gtk/gtk-mir/+merge/321739?
<jbicha> attente: I didn't look because I believe Laney said he was going to review that
<attente> jbicha: oh, i think there were some crossed wires there, we were talking about another merge
<jbicha> oh, he replied immediately after you asked me yesterday (?)
<attente> yeah, sorry about that
<Laney> I didn't say that
<Laney> I did actually comment on one patch in it
<Laney> but I never claimed to be reviewing it
<attente> jbicha: are you doing another upload for your recent upstream commit anyways?
<jbicha> for context, what I saw was https://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2017/04/03/%23ubuntu-desktop.html#t16:30
<jbicha> but sure, I'll look at it now
<attente> thanks jbicha
<jbicha> no, the docs thing I commited isn't important enough to push to zesty outside of a new upstream gtk3.22 release
<attente> ok
<Laney> night team!
<Laney> DO GREAT THINGS!
<willcooke> night all, see you Thursday
<jbicha> why does unity8-desktop-session still depend on upstart?
<jbicha> my touchpad doesn't work at all in unity8 (but a mouse works). Is this a known bug?
<jbicha> robert_ancell: I had trouble clicking on the session chooser in unity-greeter today
<jbicha> I could get to it by using the tab key on my keyboard to select it and then it worked from then on
<robert_ancell> jbicha, weird
<jbicha> I've usually been using gdm so I don't know how long it's been like that
<robert_ancell> jbicha, can you click on the other users OK, i.e. is it just the session chooser?
<jbicha> I have three accounts on this computer, the other two are bob and steve
<jbicha> if I click on steve, I can't click on jeremy but I can click on bob
<jbicha> after clicking on bob, I can click on any of the users and the session chooser works too
<jbicha> I think it's bob's fault! ;)
<robert_ancell> heh
<jbicha> also when I close the session chooser, there's this blank spot below my user name in the shape of the session chooser
<jbicha> in the blank spot, I can see the wallpaper but not the dot pattern and 'steve' and the Guest login are hidden (because they would have been under the session chooser footprint)
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-04-05
<qengho> clvx_: hi!
<hikiko> hi
<Trevinho> Laney: hey... Is it just me or logging-out/shutting down in zeisty doesn't work?
<Trevinho> hikiko: hey, can you please merge your unity branch with trunk? it seems it has some conflicts...
<Laney> morning
<Laney> Trevinho: don't know how my computer turned off last night then :-)
<Laney> (or every night)
<Laney> in other words it works for me, sorry
<Trevinho> Laney: mh, in my VM it happens like it shows the dialog and then it goes back to lighdm...
<Trevinho> it's weird
<Trevinho> like some wrong dbus call...
<Trevinho> I need to debug that
<Laney> good idea
<Trevinho> yeah, it was already something I started, but noticed nothing weird from checking just dbus
<Trevinho> mmgmg, it looks is something in my branch :|
<Laney> :D
<seb128> hey Trevinho Laney, how are you?
<Trevinho> hey seb128 good!
<Laney> hey seb128!
<Laney> EXCELLENTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT
<Trevinho> today is the Balinese new year...
<seb128> :-)
<Laney> what about you
<Trevinho> So happy new year to me :-D
<seb128> Trevinho, so you are having a day off? ;-)
<Trevinho> Nooo... Working, you don't believe me! :-)
<seb128> Laney, I'm great! it's sunny outside and gf made us some crepes this morning
<seb128> good start of day :-)
<Laney> nice
<Trevinho> seb128: so, it's actually just doing some preying in the morning...
<Trevinho> and... I'm also trying to work with a standing desk
<seb128> yeah, it's difficult to sit in the pool
<seb128> :p
<seb128> you mean you put your laptop on the side so you can look at IRC while you drink you cocktail between swmins? ;-)
<Trevinho> seb128: check telegram... :-D
<Trevinho> seb128: there's a mozilian that can testify
<flexiondotorg> Morning desktopers
<seb128> hey flexiondotorg, how are you?
<flexiondotorg> OK thanks. Early meeting on Wednesdays. Have had tea yet.
 * flexiondotorg goes to put the kettle on
<flexiondotorg> seb128 How are you?
<seb128> I'm very good thanks!
<flexiondotorg> Excellent?
<flexiondotorg> Win at tennis? :-)
<seb128> lol, not even but weather is great and my gf made crepes this morning, so good start of day
<seb128> and I might go to tennis tonight ;-)
<seb128> we have a team competition on sunday and need to practice a bit doubles before that
<flexiondotorg> Nice.
<flexiondotorg> I used to play.
<flexiondotorg> seb128 Do you know why Unity 7 has changed what it reports via XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP?
<seb128> to be a list you mean?
<seb128> I think the main motivation was that some services should be use in unity 7&8
<seb128> used
<seb128> and some are specific to one of those desktops only
<flexiondotorg> Yeah.
<seb128> so unity7 claims being unity & unity7
<Laney> Unity 7 and Unity 8 both had "Unity" there, which meant it was impossible to use XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP to differentiate.
<seb128> so you can pick which one
<flexiondotorg> Right, I've seen lots of fallout.
<Laney> Fix it.
<flexiondotorg> For example, all Electron applicattions now have broken Indicators.
<flexiondotorg> I've fixed what is in my immediate realm of control.
<Laney> Someone can control it
<flexiondotorg> I'm going to submit patches to Electron, but it will take time to trickle down.
<flexiondotorg> First to Electron itself and then only when applications get rebuilt against the new version.
<Laney> If there's some common launcher or something then you can put a hack in there, otherwise fixing the applications is what needs to happen
<seb128> it's a bit late to rollback in any case
<flexiondotorg> Just sharing what I've found.
<seb128> yeah, thanks
<flexiondotorg> Dropbox was also broken, now fixed in Zesty.
<seb128> well it's good to give some time for apps to adapt their code/be fixed before enforcing the change that impact them
<flexiondotorg> I wonder what else might surface.
<seb128> but I think we had that
<seb128> we probably didn't do the best possible job at reaching out to upstreams in advance
<seb128> or even to find out what code is impacted
<seb128> but limited ressources, etc
<Laney> yeah fair enough, I could have emailed
<seb128> Laney, I was not blaming you/anyone
<seb128> it's always tricky with those sort of changes
<seb128> if you don't put them in place you don't find out what is having issues and upstream don't get the motivation to fix their code
<seb128> but when you do there are always bits not ready and you bite users on the way
<seb128> well at least we bite them in a non LTS cycle and hopefully by the LTS we are sorted out
<Laney> This was the second round of enabling it too
<Laney> we shook out many bugs last cycle, then reverted it and tried again in zesty
<muktupavels> Any reason why it is Unity:Unity7 and not Unity7:Unity?
<seb128> does it make a difference?
<seb128> do we have code around that can deal with a list but behave differently according to the order?
<muktupavels> It could if bug will ever get accepted - https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=746592
<ubot5> Gnome bug 746592 in gsettings "Support for per-session overrides" [Normal,Reopened]
<muktupavels> and to be consistent? GNOME-Classic:GNOME, GNOME-Flashback:GNOME...
<Laney> I guess some things might search the list in order
<Laney> but I don't know of a case where it would have mattered yet
<Laney> usually it's g_strv_contains-style searched
<seb128> it might be worth filing a bug on launchpad if you feel like the order should be changed
<muktupavels> well I think that "base desktop" should be at end. It might not matter today, but could in future. For what product should I open bug?
<Laney> gnome-session
<Laney> you can find the code in the package, should be trivial to submit a patch
<muktupavels> Laney: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-session/+bug/1680008
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1680008 in gnome-session (Ubuntu) "Desktop name order in XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP for Unity" [Undecided,New]
<muktupavels> Laney: submit patch where?
<Laney> to the sponsorship queue
<Laney> I think there's a VCS for gnome-session, you could use that or just attach a debdiff
<muktupavels> update 50_ubuntu_sessions.patch and attach it to bug?
<Laney> if that's the one that has DesktopNames=... then sure
<Laney> thanks!
<muktupavels> why *.desktop have `:` and not `;` ?
<muktupavels> Laney: i think it should be DesktopNames=Unity7;Unity;
<Laney> does that get transformed to : by the session manager?
<Laney> if so, then that's fine too
<muktupavels> yes
<Laney> cheers
<muktupavels> only I dont know about *.session file
<muktupavels> for that I will just change order
<muktupavels> Laney: why not for zesty? why put that order in public release?
<muktupavels> that will just allow apps to start depend on that order that could cause problems later, no?
<muktupavels> Laney: patch attached, only changed desktop name lines...
<Laney> thx
<Laney> I don't feel super duper strongly about not changing it now, but I prefer not to make unnecessary changes when it gets close to a release
<Laney> in the absence of any known problems ...
<Sweetshark> ricotz: wrt to your patch at https://git.launchpad.net/~libreoffice/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/commit/?id=9e0a42d3988954042ba3baeb0fb8c4d82540f45d you said:
<Sweetshark> ricotz -> Sweetshark, really?, it is a mismerge and the corresponding Suggests points to libreoffice-help (= 5.3)
<Sweetshark> 1/ yet looking at https://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/pkg-openoffice/libreoffice.git/tree/control.help.in shows Debian master to have exactly the same content (and had ever since Oct 2010), so how is this a mismerge?
<Sweetshark> 2/ https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/1662227/comments/27 suggests you consider this to fix bug 1662227. I see nobody having issues with this on zesty. Are you aware of anyone actually having issues _on zesty_ needing this change?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1662227 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "Error with command "apt-get update" when using versioned "Provides:" (apt is too old to support that case)" [Undecided,Triaged]
<Sweetshark> ricotz: Asking because we are late in the cycle and shouldnt do any changes (let alone FFes) if they are not absolutely needed ...
<ricotz> Sweetshark, to be clear, you merged these versioned Provides *this* cycle and missed to make this change, of course this is around for a longer time in debian, but this is simply because you haven't merged it
<ricotz> Sweetshark, and look at the correct file ;-) https://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/pkg-openoffice/libreoffice.git/tree/control.help.in?h=debian-experimental-5.3
<ricotz> Sweetshark, another pointer to the corresponding Suggests https://git.launchpad.net/~libreoffice/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/tree/control.in?h=ubuntu-zesty-5.3#n71
<ricotz> this issue on *trusty* does not concern xenial and later
<Sweetshark> ricotz: right. so its no issue on zesty and we shouldnt FFe for it. Or even have changes on the zesty branch as that will be the base for SRUs/security updates on zesty and after FF should really only ever have changes that solve endusers problems. Right?
<ricotz> Sweetshark, the bug you mentioned has nothing to do with the change I pushed
<ricotz> Sweetshark, are you understanding the change and my reasoning?
<ricotz> this is actually *fixing* and internal dependency between libreoffice and libreoffice-l10n
<ricotz> s/and/an
<ricotz> Sweetshark, I have no idea how to explain this more, I already pasted the lines in question here
<Sweetshark> ricotz: whops. Yeah, right branch helps. Explaining the patch is not needed (and not what I asked ;) ), really. All I care about is if this is known to impact endusers on zesty (and how and how bad). "I dont know" or "I dont have any reports" is a perfectly valid answer to that ...
<ricotz> Sweetshark, to my understanding this was a no-brainer without the need for more justification, so finally all good now?
<Sweetshark> ricotz: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#Why -- it literally says: "It's just a one-line change!" ;)
<ricotz> Sweetshark, I didn't defend the change to the SRU team, but to you who is deeply familiar with lo packaging
<Sweetshark> ricotz: the question is not if the change is good (it is), the question is if this should/needs to land in zesty and if so when and how. If this would be for zesty+1, all these details would be irrelevant indeed. ;)
<Beret> does anyone know what package or settings determine the styling of notifications?
<Beret> I tried out i3 the other day and now in unity 7 my notifications are still styled in the i3 way (read, not pretty)
<Beret> even though I've uninstalled i3
<Sweetshark> ricotz: FWIW, installing/deinstalling various combos of l10ns and the libreoffice metapackage, I couldnt get apt to complain in any way. Thus given that Final Freeze is tomorrow, I dont see this going into zesty as either prerelease or an 0-day SRU. It _might_ go in a SRU along with upstream 5.3.2, but as of now this is a purely cosmetic change fixing no enduser problem. However if there is even a
<Sweetshark> hint of this delaying 5.3.2 into zesty, unless any real world impact shows up in the meantime, I will revert it.
<Sweetshark> ricotz: Note that the ubuntu-zesty-5.3 branch should reflect the state of packages in zesty/main and SRU/security-updates that end up in the distro and nothing beyond that.
<jbicha> Laney: gnome-terminal doesn't work in Unity8 so it's ok if I set its OnlyShowIn to Unity7, right?
<Laney> jbicha: That sounds like NotShowIn to me.
<jbicha> Laney: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-terminal/ubuntu/view/head:/debian/patches/01_onlyshowin.patch
<jbicha> I'm proposing to just change Unity to Unity7 there
<Laney> Ok, if it already has it then that's not so bad
<Laney> Is it known that it doesn't work?
<Laney> That might want filing
<sil2100> Trevinho: hey!
<sil2100> Trevinho: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bamf/+bug/1680104 <- I filled in this and proposed an MP for one part of the problem
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1680104 in bamf (Ubuntu) "Package FTBFS" [High,In progress]
<sil2100> Trevinho: the other seems to be some deprecation warnings turned into errors - as I don't know these parts I don't feel strong enough to try and migrate from those functions to the new ones
<sil2100> Trevinho: if you're too busy the only thing I could do to fix this is disable -Werror=deprecated-declarations to make it building again, but I guess you'd prefer to not use deprecated functions
<jbicha> do we have a usertag for apps that won't run in unity8 yet?
<jbicha> an LP tag, I mean
<Laney> attente might know
<Laney> that gnome-terminal change should go to Debian too please
<attente> i don't know
<Trevinho> sil2100: please ping me again tomorrow, and I'll check that..
 * Trevinho is in different TZ
<sil2100> Ah, ok, will do that ;)
<jbicha> attente: does unity8 still require upstart?
<attente> jbicha: sorry, i don't know
<bregma_> jbicha, yes, but there's a branch to replace it
<bregma_> I doubt the branch will land in Zesty
<jbicha> bregma_: yeah, it sounds too late for zesty, thanks
<attente> jbicha: for the aisleriot bug, how are you launching it?
<jbicha> attente: oh, it doesn't work if you run sol from ubuntu-terminal-app but maybe that's expected
<jbicha> it works fine when I launch it from the Dash thing so never mind
<attente> jbicha: i've run it from the terminal using "ubuntu-app-launch sol" and "/usr/games/sol -- --desktop_file_hint=sol.desktop"
<attente> jbicha: actually launching it from the app drawer doesn't work for me, but that's because of https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity8/+bug/1675448
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1675448 in qtmir (Ubuntu) "Unity 8 doesn't allow multiple Mir connections from an application instance" [Critical,In progress]
<jcastro> jbicha: this should make you happy: https://insights.ubuntu.com/2017/04/05/growing-ubuntu-for-cloud-and-iot-rather-than-phone-and-convergence/
<jbicha> ok, both those ways work (I had to install ubuntu-app-launch-tools)
<jbicha> jcastro: that's astonishing
<a1fa> bad news today
<a1fa> abandon unity8 in favor of gnome?
<a1fa> andyrock: is this a late april fools joke?
<clvx> I just read about.. =/
<a1fa> a little dissapointed in the news, considering unity was the most stable and sane DE for linux
<a1fa> but its just another opportunity for ubuntu-unity distro flavor to fork forward
<a1fa> the next thing on the chopping block is Mir
<a1fa> internet is going wild over this
<xclaesse> wait wait wait, Canonical is droping Unity in favor of GNOME, really?
<a1fa> thats what Mark S. annonounced 30 min ago
<sarnold> xclaesse: https://insights.ubuntu.com/2017/04/05/growing-ubuntu-for-cloud-and-iot-rather-than-phone-and-convergence/
<xclaesse> sarnold, that's what I was reading, yes
<xclaesse> I hoped that was posted April 1st, but no :(
<Blu2> The focus will be on IOT now and not convergence anymore
<a1fa> its ok, i think unity7 will continued to be maintained and developed, and if not by andyrock and the team, then by others
<a1fa> best DE hands down
<a1fa> switch to systemd didnt cause this mutch uproar
 * ricotz is utterly baffled
<dobey> so, anyone know how to make gnome-shell use the ubuntu wm/gtk+ themes?
<jbicha> dobey: GNOME Tweak Tool, set your theme to Ambiance and your icon theme to ubuntu-mono-dark if you want the Ubuntu default
<dobey> hmm, shell doesn't seem to play nice when lightdm is used
<jbicha> could you be more specific?
<dobey> no lock screen option, and my main mouse pointer was insanely huge
<dobey> switched to gdm3 and all good though
<jbicha> ooh, could you file a bug about the lock button?
<xclaesse> Wondering of the drop of unity also means droping lighdm
<jbicha> Ubuntu's gnome-shell is supposed to work as well as possible with lightdm but gnome-shell developers weren't interested in lightdm patches before
<dobey> Ambiance them ends up with tiny little corner artifacts at the top edges of windows too
<dobey> jbicha: this is on 16.04 btw, not sure if these issues still exist in 17.04
<jbicha> theming was overhauled in gtk 3.20 (Ubuntu 16.10), but yes, Ambiance/Radiance are not as well-integrated as Adwaita with gnome-shell
<ochosi> seriously, no more unity?
 * ochosi can't really believe this yet
<TheMuso> Holy crap, read ars before logging on. Like What the hell?
<Laney> what a world we live in!
<TheMuso> Yep indeed. I am happy we will be able to have a good accessibility story then. :)
<a1fa> do-release-upgrade -d before the cool kids do it
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-04-06
<a1fa> the moment after upgrade... and having to purge nvidia driver
<robert_ancell> Trevinho, welcome to the cool timezone
<jbicha> the quiet timezone :)
<TheMuso> jbicha: Indeed. :)
<RAOF> Tomorrow comes today!
<duflu> [TM]
<Trevinho> robert_ancell: well... It has some good points, yeah....
<duflu> Judging by the understatement, I imagine Trevinho is actually still in Italy and not enjoying the other good points of this timezone in person :)
<Trevinho> duflu: no.. I'm in Bali.. ð
<duflu> Trevinho: Oh quite nearby then :)
<duflu> Trevinho: Enjoy!
<Trevinho> And robert_ancell, being always been a night owl, this allows me to enjoy more the day and work with others later... Never though about it! ð
<Trevinho> duflu: Yeah.. I should have come there for some days too... But I didn't plan it in time ð
<duflu> Trevinho: Other stops in asia?
<Trevinho> duflu: Singapore, and before here Kuala Lumpur
<Trevinho> Just this area though
<duflu> Trevinho: I'm glad. IMHO you wouldn't want to go to the other side of the planet just for Bali.
<duflu> Although some Europeans do
<Trevinho> duflu: well I'm staying here for a month, so... Then I had to come back...
<Trevinho> Well, so I thought, but it was in fact not a so great decision.
<duflu> Trevinho: I'm not really sure what you mean but if you wanted to you could be in Australia before dinner :)
<duflu> That said, seems like winter is creeping in about now. I'm sure it's much warmer and the cocktails are cheaper in Bali
<Trevinho> duflu: Yeah... Having lunch and dinner for 2â¬ (each) is kind of cool. And temperatures are perfect
<allison[m]> so good morning everyone
<duflu> Morning allison[m]
<allison[m]> hey duflu
<allison[m]> how are things?
<Sweetshark> moin
<duflu> allison[m], things are confused but have been worse plenty of times. "Good" would be accurate. You?
<allison[m]> pretty good, i think
<pitti> Good morning
<duflu> Moring pitti
<allison[m]> good morning, pitti
<duflu> Morning too
<pitti> so, big announcement, eh! back to GNOME..
<allison[m]> hi RAOF
<RAOF> Good morning pitti and allison!
<pitti> hey duflu, RAOF, and allison[m], how are you?
<allison[m]> (this moment in time travel, brought to you by the matrix)
<RAOF> allison: Greetings, fellow Matrixite :)
<pitti> seb128, didrocks: bonojur mes amis !
<allison[m]> pitti: ya... no kidding!
<didrocks> bonjour pitti, allison[m], Sweetshark, RAOF ! re seb128
<pitti> I shed a tear for unity7, I like that much better than shell
 * RAOF blames allison  :P
<didrocks> and duflu ;)
<allison[m]> my 6-years-long policy of unity subversion has finally paid off
<RAOF> I've actually been using shell for the last month on half of my machines.
<pitti> but I think binning mir and u8 is the right strategic decision
<allison[m]> cough
<duflu> Hey didrocks
<RAOF> It's grown much nicer, and with extensions you can get most of the features I used to miss from U7.
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<pitti> RAOF: only after I tried it I realized how much chrome (aka wasted space) that has..
<allison[m]> ya. to be honest, i'm a bit surprised about unity getting the axe, and i sort of hope we at least make some attempts to do some UI chnages to shell to be more unity-like...
<allison[m]> but as for mir... shrug no big loss, i think
<seb128> hey didrocks allison[m] pitti RAOF duflu
<pitti> but, happy i3 user here
<RAOF> pitti: Yeah, there is that.
<flexiondotorg> Morning seb128 pitti allison[m]
<RAOF> Hey seb128!
<duflu> Morning seb128
<seb128> allison[m], is there any way you drop that [m] btw? :p it somewhat make some graphical clutter I find...
<allison[m]> seb128: give me a week or two =)
<seb128> lol
<seb128> k
 * allison[m] is waiting for a nick to expire in nickserv =)
<RAOF> Lack of locally-integrated-menus (and, partially the HUD) are the bits that still grate.
<RAOF> You can claim that back, you know :P
<allison[m]> ya.  i know.  but only after 15w of idle :)
<didrocks> why not allison_ meanwhile then?
<duflu> allison[m], what uses 15W?
<RAOF> Is your freenode account also without an associated email? Sucks.
<allison[m]> my point is that the nick belongs to someone else :p
<RAOF> Oh. That's somewhat different!
<flocculant> allison[m]: hope they don't appear in 14 weeks and 6 days then :D
<allison[m]> no joke :)
<RAOF> At least you own the matrix name :)
<duflu> Oh, possibly U8 uses 15W (bug 1664828)
<ubot5> bug 1664828 in unity8 (Ubuntu) "Unity8 wakes up continuously at around 62Hz on an idle desktop" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1664828
<allison[m]> ya.  pretty happy to have gotten the matrix name.  that was quite impressive.
<RAOF> Or possibly ominous. Are there no women on matrix at all? :X
<RAOF> A sadly plausible possibility, given the sausage-fest that's common in FOSS communities (that aren't explicitly trying to be not sausage-fests).
<allison[m]> a friend failed to register her (far less common) name
<allison[m]> i think i just got really lucky
<RAOF> :D
 * RAOF did manage to claim his rightful RAOF@mastodon.social and RAOF@icosahedron.website accounts.
<RAOF> Which you'd think would be pretty trivial, but there's some bastard who keeps going out and registering RAOF in lots of places!
<seb128> I still have no clue what matrix looks like and why people find it so hype
<seb128> need to go to some conf or hackfest to have people demoing it
<hikiko[m]> found you :)
<hikiko[m]> hello everyone
<duflu> Morning hikiko[m]
<hikiko> hi duflu
<hikiko> I was exploring matrix
<hikiko[m]> not bad tbh
<seb128> better than your old IRC client? in which way?
<hikiko[m]> not better
<hikiko[m]> just not bad
<hikiko[m]> matrix is supposed to have end to end encryption in private chats
<hikiko[m]> appart from that I can't see any difference
<flexiondotorg> I was talking to some of my friends about matrix the other night. They've setup server and integrate bridges to link different protocols.
<hikiko[m]> +I prefer IRC because I have already setup znc and connect there from anywhere :p (desrt is gonna say how graybear is that now :P)
<flexiondotorg> They could say enough good things about it. Except the UI is butt ugly.
<hikiko[m]> the dark ui is ok... well my favourite client is irssi but I use hexchat for work to not miss any notifications
<TheMuso> Hey folks. :)
<hikiko[m]> hi TheMuso
<willcooke> Morning all.  Much happen while I was off?
<TheMuso> Hey willcooke. :)
<hikiko[m]> hi willcooke :)
<willcooke> Morning TheMuso, how goes?  You got my message about skipping 1:1 today right?
<TheMuso> willcooke: Indeed I did, no worries.
<willcooke> Hope you didnt hang around late
<willcooke> cool
<willcooke> they hikiko[m]
<TheMuso> No not around for work purposes really, but still around anyways.
<TheMuso> Since the daylight savings changes our meetings are earlier for me now anyways.
<Laney> morning you subjects of the news
<pitti> hey willcooke, morning Laney!
<hikiko[m]> haha
<duflu> Laney: Morning fellow subject of HRH QEII
<duflu> I think
<Laney> correct
 * Laney looks up at the portrait on the wall
<hikiko[m]> light a candle below it
<duflu> I assume you mean not right at the bottom
<hikiko[m]> haha
<duflu> Although that would be a fairly common point of view being expressed
<hikiko[m]> testing if god saves the queen portrait
<duflu> Heh
<allison[m]> willcooke: good morning
<duflu> Wow, only queen of four countries. I thought it was more
<allison[m]> depends on your definition of "country" i guess
<duflu> vs commonwealth
<allison[m]> i mean, her record is pretty sad
<allison[m]> countries: 12 lost, 4 remain.... with 1 looking to be in pretty bad shape at the moment
<duflu> Bad shape is relative. Can you really say that with the state of Syria? Yemen?...
<allison[m]> ...heavy
<hikiko[m]> If the city of london and scotland and ireland remained in EU then the shape would not be too bad: it would be the shape of a donut :p
<allison[m]> don't forget manchester....
<hikiko[m]> (/me says bad jokes)
<hikiko[m]> anyway I think brexit = just a different agreement between UK and the rest of EU and nothing more, I wouldn't worry so much
<seb128> hey willcooke Laney, how are you?
<Laney> hey seb128
<Laney> alright, got shorts on today!
<Laney> although that might be ambitious
<seb128> it's colder today here
<seb128> was like 17Â°C on sunday
<seb128> and we are back to 7Â°C this morning
<Laney> can't resist a blue sky
<Laney> it's like 9 now
<TheMuso> Finally mornings are cooler here too, around 11C the last couple of mornings.
<TheMuso> Bring on winter. :)
<Laney> went out to the french restaurant last night after reading THE announcement
<Laney> was good
<Laney> hey TheMuso
<TheMuso> Hey Laney.
<Laney> seb128: TheMuso: how's it going?
<TheMuso> That would have been nice indeed.
<TheMuso> Laney: Honestly, really happy right now.
<seb128> Laney, good! sounds like quite some happened around here just after I left for tennis yesterday
<seb128> Laney, french restaurant, getting used to the idea that if we go back to things we used to do then french by default should be considered again? ;-)
 * larsu looks into ubuntu-desktop after a while of absence, still talking about French as a default
<larsu> all good!
<TheMuso> lol
<allison[m]> ...seb sees his chance
 * didrocks updates the seeds for zesty
<allison[m]> 1) wait for confusion to erupt
<allison[m]> 2) seize power
<seb128> hey larsu :-)
<Laney> indeed, a lot of seed changes going to happen
<Laney> would be easy for fingers to slip...
<larsu> haha
<didrocks> larsu: "oupsss"
<didrocks> :)
<larsu> hey seb128!
<larsu> and everyone
<allison[m]> hey larsu... you're missing the party!
<Laney> ahoy larsu
<larsu> there's a party?
<allison[m]> you didn't need to go to RH.  we're switching to gnome here now :)
<didrocks> Laney: trimming down disk size againâ¦ "But I had to drop -enâ¦"
<larsu> haha yes!
<Laney> did you see that cockpit is in zesty?
<pitti> I did!
<larsu> yep, I even heard the guy who did it talk about it ;)
<Laney> pitti: yeah, the packaging SUCKS!
 * larsu high fives pitti
<allison[m]> cough
<pitti> and I just uploaded 137-1 to clean it up (arm FTBFS, autopkgtest failure, cockpit-ws not run as root any more)
<pitti> I was a bit surprised to see it in zesty already, I aimed for aadvark
<pitti> but, so be it
<pitti> https://github.com/cockpit-project/cockpit/pull/6288 :)
<pitti> 138 will actually be a nice version to support in a stable release
<larsu> now we can say that it's been in there forever, since *before* the alphabet wrapped around
<Laney> there are some ...
<Laney> keen developers
<pitti> now the last step is just to get it into xenial-backports :)
<pitti> we do upstream CI on xenial, so that's the real target
<allison[m]> imho simply allowing the alphabet to wrap shows a lack of imagination
<allison[m]> we have unicode.... lots more letters to explore...
<larsu> do what excel does
<larsu> aa, ab, ac
<pitti> there's still 'c' and 'a' left
<allison[m]> aaudacious aardvark
<pitti> let's use up the Latin alphabet first before moving to a new one :)
<larsu> aawkwaard
<TheMuso> IMO go back to A, and make this next cycle 12 months instead of 6. :p
<allison[m]> aaliterative aardvark would be better
<sil2100> Trevinho: hey! re-poke regarding https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bamf/+bug/1680104
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1680104 in bamf (Ubuntu) "Package FTBFS" [High,In progress]
<sil2100> Trevinho: as mentioned in the bug, I can fix this by just adding a -Wno-deprecated-declarations but I would prefer to properly fix it ;p
<Laney> -Werror=deprecated-declarations in release builds sucks
<seb128> indeed
<Sweetshark> you can always plit ireland up in more countries if you care about the counter ...
<Sweetshark> s/plit/split/
<Sweetshark> aardvark wouldnt even scale one step beyond aardvard: bb.* ?
<jbicha> bbq of course! ;)
<tjaalton> RAOF: still around? what gnome-shell extensions did you enable to get it closer to behaving like u7?
<Laney> haha
<Laney> just use xenial if that's what you want
<RAOF> tjaalton: primarily the sound menu one; that's the one I miss the most.
<tjaalton> RAOF: ah, alright. I'll give it a shot, thanks
<RAOF> Specifically: https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/55/media-player-indicator/
<tjaalton> yup
<ximion> Laney: given yesterday's announcement, I guess the desktop-team party was big ^^
<Laney> hey ximion
<ximion> maybe Canonical could indeed become a counterweight to Red Hat in GNOME (IMHO that would only help the project)
<Laney> spare a thought for those working on u8 stuff
<ximion> I was reading Phoronix yesterday and given the talk there, nobody in the u8 team knew about it...
<ximion> (and yeah, not the most reliable source)
<Laney> no comment :)
<Laney> some interesting opportunities ahead for sure
<ximion> it's really sad for the phone stack
<ximion> on a different note, do you have any idea on whether you plan to use GNOMEs / GNOME Software's "web-application" feature?
<Laney> never heard of it
<ximion> it's basically AppStream data with a hyperlink in there which gets opened in an Epiphany window with less chrome
<Laney> oh is it epiphany in chromeless mode?
<ximion> jup
<ximion> but with predefined stuff in GNOME Software
<ximion> it's a rather weird thing and personally I don't see much use for it, but GNOME likes it :P
<Laney> can't see us shipping epiphany by default
<ximion> ok
<Laney> but if it could work with firefox then sure?
<ximion> Laney: I'll talk to hughsie about it :-) - will probably not be something for the AppStream 0.11 release, that release has already too many new features enqueued
<Laney> where did the idea come from?
<Laney> how does it even work?
<Laney> you get a package with a metainfo file?
<ximion> you just get a metadata snippet in the AppStream file that doesn't belong to any package
<Laney> how does it get in there?
<ximion> I think Fedora injects those at the generator level
<Laney> interesting
<ximion> as in "take this extra metadata and put it in the result"
<Laney> so yeah they can be nice
<Laney> just don't know if we'll be able to run them in such a good way
<Laney> I guess in g-s 'installing' them makes a desktop file or something
<ximion> yes
<ximion> with some special Epiphany arguments
<Laney> maybe the webbrowser app can live on ...
<ximion> it's pretty tied to Epiphany and there is no clear definition on what a web application actually is, that's why this feature isn't in AppStream yet, but I am not really opposed to having it
<Laney> not sure this isn't scope creep though
<Laney> now appstream is a website description format too?
<ximion> a "web application description" apparently a webapp is something special :P
<Laney> if you say that they're apps then maybe it makes sense
<Laney> I suppose they are app-like once installed
<ximion> yeah
<ximion> web is weird
<Laney> bloop
<TheMuso> From an a11y perspective, I'd prefer firefox or epiphany, although firefox is better on the a11y front.
<Trevinho> sil2100: I will fix it later ok
<sil2100> Trevinho: if you're busy currently would you be fine for me working-around it and then leaving it for you to fix it properly in the nearest future?
<sil2100> I want to clear as much as possible from the FTBFS list before release of zesty
<Trevinho> sil2100: let me check a sec
<Trevinho> sil2100: oh, never mind... yeah, please do that... As we don't really care much at this point of deprecated.
<Trevinho> sil2100: even in unity we've that, so it's fine... As they won't last longer anyway.
<Laney> umount --just-do-what-i-say
 * Laney wins
<Trevinho> ahaha
<Trevinho> Yeah, it's always the most drat command so far
<sil2100> Trevinho: \o/ ok, thanks!
<jbicha> Fedora is odd in that they ship epiphany in the default install but without the .desktop so it looks like there is only one browser installed
<jbicha> I believe part of the justification was to make it easy to "ship" documentation for some of their projects by just putting the docs on a website
<jbicha> (and mcatanzaro would love for Fedora to switch to epiphany eventually)
<jbicha> anyway, I'm out for a bitâ¦
<Trevinho> seb128: can have you a look at that u-c-c branch, so at this point I guess we can try to deliver it to z and eventually SRU it.
<seb128> Trevinho, I started but you have like autotools changes mixed in that for whatever reason
<seb128> that's not appropriate for z
<Trevinho> seb128: I inherited these from hikiko branch, not sure what it wasn't working to her
<seb128> but you are right I should comment on the mp saying that
<Trevinho> seb128: sure, but since there won't be an a with it, it's the only way.... If we've a FFe.
<seb128> but usually changes should be at least explained
<seb128> and different logical changesets should be in different mps
<seb128> you got a ffe?
<Trevinho> or, well, we can still push to a, and then use that as source for SRUs?
<seb128> we can as well yes
<Trevinho> hikiko: did the bug, but I guess it wasn't ack'ed
<seb128> it feels a bit late to land a rewrite
<Laney> you can't deliver this to z
<seb128> it's a non LTS serie and it's not critical to land that this cycle
<Trevinho> Ok, fine...
<Laney> well, maybe as an SRU
<hikiko> which bug?
<Laney> but that's an argument to have with them
<Trevinho> I wasn't in rush, just at this point i don't want to loose these changes. As they can still go to X in some ways
<Laney> the lowgfx switch
<seb128> Trevinho, it's on my "to-review" list for this week don't worry
<Laney> right, get them in z+1 then try to sru
<Trevinho> Laney: you can still remove the switch... The rest of changes are bug fixes
<hikiko> seb128, Trevinho which bug are you talking about?
<Laney> if you have a good plan for that it should be doable
<Trevinho> as right now if you save settings to lowgfx they won't apply to normal profile
<seb128> hikiko, the lowgfx u-c-c changes
<seb128> hikiko, you have/had autotools file changed in there without explanation of why that's needed
<hikiko> oh
<Trevinho> seb128: in the commits there was someting like "remove deprecation warnings"
<hikiko> seb128, I was having error
<hikiko> yep
<seb128> error or warning?
<hikiko> can't remember to be honest, I suspect error otherwise I wouldn't have reason to change it
<Laney> no big rush imho
<Trevinho> seb128: I can try to rebuild it
<seb128> Trevinho, k
<hikiko> but I could revert that
<Trevinho> no,  no rush...
<hikiko> it's not a big deak
<hikiko> it's not a big deal
<Trevinho> hikiko: it's up to me, don't worry
<Trevinho> hikiko: but you got the FFe, or just opened the bug?
<seb128> hikiko, don't worry, but next time it's good to have a summary of why changes are needed and what they do in the commit msg or changelog
<hikiko> I only opened the bug I couldn't ask for a ffe without having my branches reviewed Trevinho
<seb128> you could
<hikiko> sure seb128 you are right
<Trevinho> hikiko: the branches are reviewed right now... I've redone the UCC work mostly as it needed some other changes, so that won't go in, the unity one also got some changes on my side, so... you're all set from code point of view.
<jdstrand> seb128: hey, I suspect you've been asked this already, but do you know the general state of gnome3/wayland in zesty? wondering if it is worth it to develop wayland/gnome3 classic interfaces for snappy no or waiting til 17.10 opens
<jdstrand> now*
<seb128> jdstrand, hey, I don't think anyone asked but zesty should be similar to whatever we are going to have over the next cycles so it's a good base to work on that
<hikiko> so, next step is to contact the ubuntu-doc and ubuntu-translators teams?
<hikiko> I ve subscribed the bug to the ubuntu-release team
<hikiko> the ubuntu-release team to the bug*
<hikiko> :p
<hikiko> I am reading this guide: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess
<jdstrand> seb128: ok, cool. I saw the response from fedora on the status of gnome3 wrt the feedback received in kirkland's reddit and was curious if gnome3 in the archive was (nearly) as good as fedora's
<seb128> jdstrand, I don't think fedora has much distro specific, they just hire upstream hackers to get work done upstream so we should be mostly on the same level
<Trevinho> seb128: Makefile changes reverted though, it works anyway
<seb128> Trevinho, thanks
<Laney> hikiko: I think you should be going for z+1 and SRU rather than freeze exception
<seb128> jdstrand, well some improvements might be from GNOME 3.26 and we are still on 3.24 for zesty
<Laney> the final freeze is tonight
<Trevinho> Laney: ok, that's fine for me
<Laney> Trevinho: ya, just making sure everyone gets the message ;)
<Laney> turns out this can of compressed air is very flammable
 * Laney tried to put a candle out with it for fun
<Trevinho> Laney: it is... I had some fun time ago with it
<hikiko> willcooke, ^ is what Laney says fine for you too? (for the low gfx)
<hikiko> Laney, I don't know how important the feature is to be honest but tonight seems to be very close :)
<Laney> indeed
<willcooke> otp - gimme a sec
<willcooke> hikiko, what laney says is a good idea.  Too late now
<jdstrand> seb128: ok, thanks for the info
<seb128> jdstrand, np, feel free to ask more questions on this channel if needed we are around and happy to help!
<hikiko> ok
<jcastro> I switched to zenial/gnome yesterday, the alt-tab, alt-` is still there, so that's a nice bonus
<jbicha> jcastro: it's been years, but if I remember correctly that appeared in GNOME before Unity
<jbicha> jcastro: are you using Dash to Dock?
<jcastro> no
<jbicha> if you like a side launcher sort of like Unity it's a good choice
<jbicha> https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/gnome-shell-extension-dashtodock
<jcastro> I'm going to go as extension free as I can, I did load the weather applet one, which is lovely
<jbicha> there's a weather applet built into the GNOME 3.24 clock menu
<jbicha> (you need to have gnome-weather installed for it to show up)
<jbicha> willcooke: I like headline #4 at http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/04/5-questions-asking-future-ubuntu
<jbicha> "Will Happens to Snappy and Snap Apps"
<willcooke> :D
<willcooke> Those poor guys
<jbicha> jdstrand: Fedora 25 and GNOME 3.22 switched the default GNOME session to Wayland, Debian and Ubuntu GNOME currently still default to X but we've shipped the Wayland session since 16.04 LTS
<femme> http://blog.dustinkirkland.com/2017/04/thank-you-note-to-hackernews.html says 'It would be difficult, though not necessarily impossible, to offer the grsecurity supported in the Ubuntu archive' but surely not for technical reasons as debian has a linux-grsec package
<jbicha> probably the biggest downside is if Wayland crashes, it takes down your whole session (GNOME on X can restart gnome-shell when it crashes)
<jbicha> GDM3 though is actually Wayland by default though
<jdstrand> jbicha: fyi, I just tried "GNOME Wayland' from lightdm in a vm and got a blackscreen. going to gdm3, it seems to go into wayland. /usr/lib/gdm3/gdm-wayland-session ...
<jdstrand> jbicha: I see a bunch of Xwayland in there
<jdstrand> I don't know if that is normal
<mdeslaur> femme: grsecurity is now for paying customers only
<jbicha> XWayland is always running; it would be a bunch of work to split that out to only run on demand
<femme> mdeslaur, I know, the patches to testing are still available though and there will probably be a community effort around maintaining them until the next public release
<jbicha> Firefox is still XWayland; chromium needs to be gtk3 first but that's happening later this year I believe
<mdeslaur> femme: doing that is a dead end though, forward porting old grsec patches is a bad idea
<mdeslaur> anyway
<jbicha> jdstrand: do you have time to file a bug about GNOME on Wayland being broken with lightdm
<jbicha> my understanding is that the reason gdm3 uses Wayland by default is because it's needed for the GNOME on Wayland session to work
<jbicha> so maybe for zesty we should see if we can blacklist that session for lightdm
<mdeslaur> why not just kill lightdm?
<mdeslaur> wouldn't it make sense just to go with gdm if we're going to be switching to gnome?
<jbicha> well lightdm is used by every flavor except Ubuntu GNOME and Kubuntu (sddm)
<jbicha> but gdm does integrate better with gnome-shell
<Laney> shell uses gdm for the lockscreen somehow doesn't it?
<Laney> the reskilling starts already! :)
<seb128> does gdm do guest sessions nowadays?
<jbicha> yes, I think it inspired the unity-greeter implementation :)
<jbicha> seb128: no, I don't think so
<seb128> :-(
<Laney> don't sad face
<Laney> this is job security :P
<seb128> lol
<Laney> I think that's a good feature anyway
<seb128> yeah me too, I use it a lot
<seb128> I guess here start our list of dev work needed :p
<jdstrand> jbicha: sure I can do that
<jdstrand> jbicha: against what package?
<jbicha> Privacy is big so I can see a guest mode being a popular improvement to GNOME
<kenvandine> ugh, i can't work without the guest session!
<jbicha> jdstrand: if we want to just blacklist it, maybe just lightdm; but the session files are from gnome-session
<kenvandine> i'm still using lightdm, maybe i should switch to gdm
<jbicha> kenvandine: we need you to still work though!! :)
<mdeslaur> our guest mode relies on apparmor, so I'm not sure it's upstreamable as-is
<kenvandine> :)
<femme> mdeslaur, worse than running vanilla linux?
<kenvandine> guest session is super useful for testing
<jdstrand> seb128: are there any snaps that you know of that will use wayland? I found gnome-easytag but it just crashes and I found glade-attente, but it needs X
<jdstrand> (note, glade-attente uses Xwayland fine)
<seb128> jdstrand, any GTK one?
<seb128> GTK3
<mdeslaur> femme: go read the grsecurity blog about the security issues introduces by people who forward-ported the patches
<jdstrand> seb128: can you name one otoh? snap find gnome doesn't help
<mdeslaur> femme: anyway, point is if you want grsec, you need to pay for it now, that's how it is
<seb128> jdstrand, I'm looking sec
<femme> mdeslaur, huh? do you mean the ones about KSPP? I'm just talking about maintaining the LTS which is the current plan
<attente> jdstrand: i can try re-building the glade snap with wayland support if you can't find anything else
<femme> mdeslaur, but even then, I'm afraid it's still an improvement
 * femme is using grsec
<seb128> attente, wdym with wayland support? shouldn't gtk just use the right backend depending of where you start the binary?
<seb128> jdstrand, try https://uappexplorer.com/app/ghex-udt.canonical ?
<jdstrand> jbicha: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-session/+bug/1680496
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1680496 in gnome-session (Ubuntu) "black screen when using 'GNOME Wayland' with lightdm on zesty" [Undecided,New]
<attente> seb128: i think it doesn't have wayland support because i didn't add libwayland-dev to the list of build packages
<attente> so i assume it just doesn't have that backend built in that snap at all
<seb128> attente, oh, you built gtk from source?
<Laney> should be able to check that with ldd
<jdstrand> attente: thanks for the offer. trying ghex
<seb128> not side staging the deb?
<attente> seb128: yeah, that's a snap i built using jhbuild
<attente> so it has everything from the ground up pretty much
<seb128> k
<jdstrand> seb128: fyi, ghex is trying to access the X socket too
<seb128> :-(
<jdstrand> apparmor="DENIED" operation="connect" profile="snap.ghex-udt.ghex" pid=16352 comm="ghex" family="unix" sock_type="stream" protocol=0 requested_mask="send receive connect" denied_mask="send connect" addr=none peer_addr="@/tmp/.X11-unix/X1" peer="unconfined"
<jdstrand> (once I comment out the X abstraction in the security policy)
<seb128> attente, do you know how the gtk backend detection works?
<seb128> what does it look for to know if it's under wayland?
<jdstrand> attente: if you were so inclined, tossing a snap in --edge with wayland would be cool if you had time
<attente> jdstrand: sure, it does take a while to build though
<seb128> jdstrand, ghex uses gtk from the archive which has the wayland backend included
<seb128> attente, jdstrand, I think ghex is fine, it's just that gtk probably goes "neh, can't use wayland, let's use x11"
<attente> seb128: i think it just tries to connect to the wayland socket and if it fails, moves on to trying x11
<attente> seb128: could be
<jdstrand> seb128: why would it do that? there are no apparmor denials for anything other than X
<seb128> weird
<seb128> jdstrand, does it make a difference if you GDK_BACKEND=wayland ?
<attente> it's supposed to check wayland first
<jdstrand> thinking that maybe it copied something into SNAP_USER_DATA, I deleted ~/snap and tried again
<jdstrand> seb128: it just says:
<jdstrand> Cannot open display:
<seb128> attente, do you know where is the check code in gtk?
<jdstrand> it looks like without GDK_BACKEND it tried mir first
<attente> seb128: https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/tree/gdk/gdkdisplaymanager.c#n265
<attente> it iterates through there
<jdstrand> I don't know if anything is missing, but: http://paste.ubuntu.com/24328093/
<attente> the actual checking for wayland is done here: https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/tree/gdk/wayland/gdkdisplay-wayland.c#n512
<attente> if ï¿¼wl_display_connect fails, it moves on to the next backend
<seb128> jdstrand, is XDG_RUNTIME_DIR correctly set under snappy nowadays?
<seb128> jdstrand, https://www.mankier.com/3/wl_display_connect
<jdstrand> seb128: XDG_RUNTIME_DIR=/run/user/1000/snap.ghex-udt
<seb128> it checks for the socket in XDG_RUNTIME_DIR
<seb128> is there a wayland socket in that dir?
<jdstrand> so, the socket isn't in there
<seb128> k
<seb128> there you go
<jdstrand> dconf is in there
<jdstrand> huh, that'll be an interesting problem
<jdstrand> seb128: that's indeed it
<jdstrand> apparmor="DENIED" operation="connect" profile="snap.ghex-udt.ghex" name="/run/user/1000/wayland-0" pid=16579 comm="ghex" requested_mask="wr" denied_mask="wr" fsuid=1000 ouid=1000
<jdstrand> attente: I don't need the edge snap
<seb128> good
<seb128> jdstrand, what did you change to get those DENIED?
<attente> great, it's kind of a pain to build :)
<seb128> set the XDG_RUNTIME_DIR to the other location?
<jdstrand> seb128: well, good, except that dsert advised us to change XDG_RUNTIME_DIR to /run/user/1000/$SNAP_NAME for dconf, but wayland isn't there
<seb128> jdstrand, seems like we had hacks in the desktop launcher for mir, https://github.com/ubuntu/snapcraft-desktop-helpers/blob/master/common/desktop-exports#L43
<seb128> jdstrand, we might need something similar for wayland
<jdstrand> seb128: install ghex, modify its profile to comment out the X abstraction include, load the profile, do 'snap run --shell ghex-udt.ghex', export XDG_RUNTIME_DIR=/run/user/`id -u`, then $SNAP/command-ghex.wrapper
<seb128> though ideally things would work out of the box
<jdstrand> easy peasy
<jdstrand> ;)
<jdstrand> seb128: perhaps there is another env var that can be set?
<seb128> I'm googling for that
<seb128> doesn't seem so
<seb128> https://wayland.freedesktop.org/docs/html/ch04.html mentions WAYLAND_DISPLAY
<jdstrand> WAYLAND_DISPLAY I think is just the basename
<seb128> but that's to change the name of the socket
<seb128> not the dir
<jdstrand> right
<seb128> why don't we use a common XDG_RUNTIME_DIR?
<attente> yeah. the man page is very explicit that it has to be in XDG_RUNTIME_DIR
<seb128> attente, allison[m], ^ do you know what flatpak does with that?
<attente> sorry, i've no clue
<jdstrand> well, we could symlink
<allison[m]> snappy is doing the wrong thing here
<allison[m]> it shouldn't change the value of XDG_RUNTIME_DIR.  i've had to work around that in my dconf work.
<jdstrand> yean, that works
<Laney> they bind mount it I think
<allison[m]> flatpak doesn't have the host's XDG_RUNTIME_DIR in its mount namespace
<allison[m]> but it does have a bindmount of a subdirectory of it, at the same location in both
<jdstrand> snap run --shell ghex-udt.ghex. 'cd $XDG_RUNTIME_DIR ; ln -s ../wayland-0 . ; $SNAP/command-ghex.wrapper'
<allison[m]> so you'll see two different /run/user/1000/ directories on the inside and outside
<jdstrand> apparmor="DENIED" operation="connect" profile="snap.ghex-udt.ghex" name="/run/user/1000/wayland-0" pid=16624 comm="ghex" requested_mask="wr" denied_mask="wr" fsuid=1000 ouid=1000
<allison[m]> but /run/user/1000/app/org.gnome.gedit/ will be the same
<seb128> that makes sense to me
<Laney> https://github.com/flatpak/flatpak/blob/master/common/flatpak-run.c#L1988
<jdstrand> allison[m]: not that snappy doing the wrong thing there came at dsert's explicit request
<jdstrand> note*
<allison[m]> i pushed the snappy team to do something similar and allow $XDG_RUNTIME_DIR/snap.snap-id to be permitted in a similar way
<allison[m]> but they additionally reset the value of XDG_RUNTIME_DIR to this new directory -- messing everything up in the process
<allison[m]> that second change should be backed out
<allison[m]> jdstrand: no.  i never asked for XDG_RUNTIME_DIR to be changed to a different value
<allison[m]> i only asked for a new directory to be created and allowed through apparmor
<jdstrand> seb128: I don't know if you saw in the backscroll, but the desktop part could just do a symlink from $XDG_RUNTIME_DIR/../wayland-0 to $XDG_RUNTIME_DIR/wayland-0 while the proper way this should be handled is worked out
<seb128> jdstrand, no I didn't, thanks for rementioning it
<allison[m]> i've made 3 comments in https://bugs.launchpad.net/snap-confine/+bug/1620442 and none of them say anything about changing the envvar
<jdstrand> allison[m]: oh I didn't realize you changed your nick
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1620442 in Snappy "snap fails because XDG_RUNTIME_DIR is set to /run/user/1000" [High,Fix released]
 * jdstrand gets the bug
<allison[m]> maybe i made the mistake of commenting on a bug with a "we need this" when the original request was not exactly right
<jdstrand> allison[m]: https://bugs.launchpad.net/snap-confine/+bug/1620442/comments/3
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1620442 in Snappy "snap fails because XDG_RUNTIME_DIR is set to /run/user/1000" [High,Fix released]
<jdstrand> allison[m]: that was in response (I thought) to my comment 2, which said to set XDG_RUNTIME_DIR
<allison[m]> okay
<jdstrand> anyway, this can be adjusted, just need to work through how
<allison[m]> it does look like i ACK your proposal to do exactly that
<allison[m]> so sorry for that
<allison[m]> honestly, you need to do what flatpak does
<allison[m]> ie: use mount namespaces to set up a clean copy of the xdg_runtime_dir at the same path, with the subdir bindmounted through
<jdstrand> what does it do? a bind mount so the subdir of //run/user/uid/$SNAP_NAME is put on /run/user/uid?
<allison[m]> please do not change the effective location of this directory on the inside/out
<Laney> I just linked to the code
<allison[m]> jdstrand: no.
<allison[m]> /run/user/1000 ends up being a clean new tmpfs inside the snap
<allison[m]> the subdir is shared, and it is at the same location inside and out
<seb128> Laney, where?
<Laney> where did I link it?
<seb128> ups
<seb128> Laney, unping, saw it :p
<Laney> ok
<Laney> anyway, desrt is explaining it with words
<allison[m]> should i write this stuff down somewhere?
<seb128> would be good I think
<seb128> not sure what's the best somewhere though?
<seb128> maybe a launchpad bug against snapd
 * ogra_ points to forum.snapcraft.io
<Laney> a README inside the source :)
<jdstrand> allison[m]: I can do that. what I've just hear is not complete though (aiui). sorry if being dense. you said create a clean dir at /run/user/1000, with an empty subdir. that's fine, but wayland-0 isn't in there yet-- guess you left out that step?
<Laney> jdstrand: bind mount it from the outside
<allison[m]> jdstrand: bindmount it
<jdstrand> ok, with the code Laney pointed at
<seb128> jdstrand, did you see the github flatpak url from Laney some minutes ago?
<seb128> right
<Laney> :)
<jdstrand> it wasn't clear that was the 3rd step
<allison[m]> an alternative may be to make wayland add sockets per-client
<allison[m]> we want to go this direction with dbus.... i'd like to chat about that with you guys, in fact
<allison[m]> we had an interesting discussion at the gtk hackfest
<jdstrand> it is certainly possible to do 3 steps that were outlined. it does mean that the setuid binary has to look for the wayland socket... if it isn't named wayland-0 (or more precisely, if there is no or more than one wayland-N, then have special casing
<jdstrand> s/wayland-N,/wayland-N),/
<jdstrand> let me put this in the forum. seb128, would you be able to adjust the desktop part to do the symlink hack while the proper solution is designed and implemented?
<seb128> jdstrand, sure, I'm about to step out for a bit but I can have a look at that later/tomorrow
<jdstrand> seb128: shell snippet: cd $XDG_RUNTIME_DIR ; test -S $XDG_RUNTIME_DIR/../wayland-0 && ln -s $XDG_RUNTIME_DIR/../wayland-0 .
<seb128> k, noted, thanks
<jdstrand> seb128: that's fine, no rush, just curious on the status of things
<jdstrand> seb128: note that the above is allowed by today's policy. actually using wayland-0 is not yet
<k_alam> \j
<Laney> back in a couple of hours
<Laney> off to do some zen digging
<jdstrand> allison[m], attente, seb128, Laney: fyi, https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/wayland-dconf-and-xdg-runtime-dir/186
<willcooke> night all
<robert_ancell> The best silver lining if this is the end of Mir is that people will stop incorrectly referring to it as MIR
 * qengho works on the Tor people.
<Laney> we have to get rid of SystemD next then
 * Laney grimaces
<robert_ancell> Laney, YES...
<a1fa> andyrock: yo
<andyrock> a1fa: hey
<a1fa> you make it out alive or they still chopin' heads over there?
<andyrock> a1fa: still alive :D
<a1fa> great to hear
<a1fa> having to adjust to gnome a year in advance ;) is it blasphemy if your gnome shell looks like unity?
<TheMuso> I'd argue that GNOME shell is extendable for that reason, so you can make it work however you want.
<a1fa> can you move the time over to the right?
<a1fa> so stupid to put it in the middle of the screen
<TheMuso> There is probably an extension to do that, and if not, it would not be too hard to write one.
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-04-07
<Mirv> robert_ancell: and I stop being highlighted whenever there is talk about Mirvfb!
<robert_ancell> Mirv, :)
<willcooke> morning all
<didrocks> hey willcooke
<robert_ancell> willcooke, hi
<willcooke> Today might well be a two-cups-of-tea before 9am day
<willcooke> hey robert_ancell, thanks for hanging around
<willcooke> Fun Friday night eh?
<robert_ancell> willcooke, the music in the call seems to indicate that
<seb128> hey willcooke didrocks robert_ancell
<robert_ancell> o/
<seb128> you dial in 10 minutes in advance?
<seb128> like the sound of that music? :p
<robert_ancell> seb128, yeah, wanted to check it was going to work before it starts
<robert_ancell> seb128, it's actually putting me in a good mood!
<didrocks> re seb128, hey willcooke
<seb128> haha
<didrocks> oupss
<didrocks> robert_ancell: ^ ;)
<robert_ancell> yo didrocks
<willcooke> morning seb128
<duflu> I swear I've heard this music just before product launches...
<Laney> sup
 * Laney came up pre pips
<Laney> prips
<duflu> Morning Laney, willcooke, seb128, didrocks, Europe
<didrocks> hey duflu
<Laney> ahoy duflu
<Laney> how's it going
<duflu> Laney: Let's see...
<willcooke> hey duflu
 * allison[m] sighs, contentedly
<allison[m]> seb128: once upon a time, in brussels, a long long time ago, you told me that the tentative plan "for now" was to ship gnome-shell when it's ready
<seb128> sticking to the plan! :-)
<allison[m]> yup :)
 * allison[m] is actually quite happy
<allison[m]> looking forward to installing ubuntu again :)
<seb128> :-)
<allison[m]> furthermore: it's a beautiful day!
<TheMuso> Hey folks, just in time.
<Laney> Nope
<TheMuso> Oh miscalculated time...
<TheMuso> ugy
<TheMuso> allison[m]: Yeah, I am rather ahppy too. Wasn't looking forward to implementing a11y from scratch in a shell that only a small group of people maintain. :)
<TheMuso> happy*
<seb128> TheMuso, I'm not sure there are more people maintaining gnome-shell than we had people working on unity...
<TheMuso> seb128: Probably not, but the a11y infrastructure is already reasonably well established.
<allison[m]> i'd suspect the opposite, in fact :p
<seb128> TheMuso, that's a different statement than the one you just made
<TheMuso> There is already something to work with.
<TheMuso> Yeah sometimes I'm not the best at putting my thoughts accross. :)
<TheMuso> Easier to improve something that is already established rather than having to start almost from scratch.
<seb128> would be nice also to not openly dismiss the work from your collegues that were working on hard on unity
<seb128> whatever your thinking might be
<seb128> but yeah it makes some things easier to build on a product that's further along the line
<TheMuso> I have been thinking of those folks for the last couple of days. I do feel sorry for them.
<flexiondotorg> jbicha I've just install Ubuntu GNOME 17.04 on my XPS 15 :-)
 * Laney wibbles
<tjaalton> the mouse cursor keeps jumping on gnome-shell, which doesn't happen under unity.. and sometimes it gets stuck as if a button is pressed
<jbicha> tjaalton: I'm sorry, I've seen that too occasionally and logging out and logging back in fixes that
<tjaalton> jbicha: no worries, this is probably a bastardized install anyway
<Laney> seb128: is it time for a langpack export/upload? (is it normal to do one around this point?)
<Laney> ah, looks like yakkety got oen on the monday before release
<Laney> one*
<seb128> Laney, launchpad exports happen on tuesdays, if we need one before we should ask wgrant if he can trigger one manually
<seb128> Laney, https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/zesty/+language-packs
<Laney> seb128: k, don't know how fresh it needs to be
<seb128> Laney, Gunnar wanted them to be exported after yesterday since the schedule has that as a limit for translators to do their langpack work
<seb128> I've pinged him about that, let's see
<Laney> ok
<seb128> him = wgrant
<Laney> good work
<seb128> Laney, k, we are getting a new export and I'm going to kick another langpack update once the tarball is there
<Laney> great
<seb128> thanks for the reminder
<Laney> thanks for being the langpack person :P
<seb128> :-)
<willcooke> seb128, Laney, Trevinho - please land that cats in the dash thing NOW!
<Laney> free the fish!
<kenvandine> lol
<Trevinho> willcooke: eheh :-)
<Trevinho> willcooke: yeah, lots of plans for landing.... But Laney is blocking my projects for sure! :-)
<seb128> Trevinho, the man who never sleeps
<Laney> he got drunk at the party
<Laney> IRCing nfrom the dance floor
 * Trevinho ahaha, well no... I'm just laying in the bed waiti
<Trevinho> ups
<Trevinho> waiting to see news coming, but...
<Trevinho> that was after dancing though
<Trevinho> But if you really want these cats back, really, I can do a MP in 2 seconds :-D
<jbicha> are the cats dancing too?
<Trevinho> jbicha: unfortunately not... they cry!
<jbicha> that sounds broken then :(
<Laney> https://twitter.com/turing_police/status/849851247821701120
<willcooke> night all
<willcooke> dont know what else to say.
<willcooke> :(
<Laney> oh
<Laney> he did a didrocks
<ogra_> lol
 * ogra_ notes that down
<jdstrand> jbicha, tjaalton: is that under wayland or X?
<jbicha> I don't remember; I use GNOME on Wayland a lot but not all the time
<jbicha> Ubuntu GNOME didn't switch to Wayland by default for 16.10 or 17.04 because we didn't have enough Ubuntu developers/testing to support it, but we had been planning to at least discuss it for 18.04 LTS (and therefore 17.10)
<mdeslaur> assuming there are working nvidia drivers I guess
<jbicha> there's some sort of nvidia support for GNOME on Wayland right now in 17.04
<jbicha> but I don't know how well it works since I don't have the hardware, there's some discussion on LP: #1666664
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1666664 in mutter (Ubuntu) "mutter 3.23.90 is built without egl-device support" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1666664
<jbicha> mdeslaur: so how tough is the mozjs MIR going to be?
<mdeslaur> jbicha: I honestly don't know what we'll do about that...it's not as if we'll have a choice
<mdeslaur> it really sucks to be running a desktop shell with a javascript engine that has dozens of open CVEs
<jbicha> right
<mdeslaur> but I don't see a solution...picking that engine was a bad choice
<mdeslaur> upstream Mozilla has absolutely no interest in maintain a stable API, so we can't just update it
<jbicha> the good news is that Philip Chimento went all the way from mozjs24 to mozjs38 in GNOME 3.24 and the goal is to get to 48 or even 52 in 3.26
<mdeslaur> that's only good if you only support your releases for 6 months
<jbicha> we need some more help from Mozilla on that
<mdeslaur> I don't think they are interested in doing that
<jbicha> the official mozjs38 was 38.2 but Fedora just used the last 38 ESR tarball (38.8) to build their mozjs
<jbicha> I would have done that for zesty too but the giant tarball was very slow to work with and it was a challenge to create a get-orig-source rule to delete all the extra files mozjs doesn't need
<jbicha> and it's probably too late for zesty for that now, even as an sru
<jbicha> mdeslaur: are you aware that RHEL does periodic updates of the GNOME stack now? it's not like Debian stable at all where you're stuck on a GNOME version for the whole lifecycle
<mdeslaur> 38.8 is sill a year old
<xclaesse> let's rewrite gnome-shell in rust with gtk4 instead of clutter... how hard can it be...
<jbicha> yes, it's bad but it's still 6 months newer or so
<mdeslaur> they only did it the one time, no?
<mdeslaur> they went from 3.8.4 to 3.14.4
<jbicha> I guess so, but they will do it again: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1258015
<ubot5> bugzilla.redhat.com bug 1258015 in gtk3 "[RFE] Rebase GNOME to version 3.18 (or latest)" [Unspecified,New]
<mdeslaur> xclaesse: who needs plugins, right?
<jbicha> interestingly, it will probably be 3.22, same as Debian stable
<mdeslaur> wow, it's fun what you can do with unlimited resources :)
<mdeslaur> so once every two years I guess
<jbicha> beware the dark side :)
<jbicha> they missed 7.3 but I heard someone say a goal of a GNOME update/refresh every year
<mdeslaur> sucks to be their customers and have your custom apps break because they've updated gtk
<mdeslaur> then again, I don't suppose they have desktop customers
<mdeslaur> I don't know, perhaps updating to newest gnome every year is doable...but I suspect that wouldn't accomplish the goal of not investing on desktop
<jbicha> I'd be uncomfortable with updating from Xenial's 3.18 to 3.20 because of the last major gtk3 theme break (although admittedly it was done in the gnome3-staging ppa)
<jbicha> but since then, gtk at least hasn't been as bad
<jbicha> I've no idea if it's actually feasible for Ubuntu, I was just mentioning that Red Hat surprisingly did it
<jbicha> no one in Debian is eager to maintain mozjs38 either :|
<mdeslaur> jbicha: wait, I thought you were the official Ubuntu GNOME maintainer from now on? :)
<jbicha> no pressure, right?
<mdeslaur> jbicha: ;)
<dobey> hmm
<dobey> yeah i still don't get why mozjs
<sarnold> lua feels like a thousand times better fit, if a script is absolutely necessary
<jbicha> well it made sense at the time but rewriting things is hard *cough*
<dobey> i don't think mozjs ever made sense, when webkit was already being used for so many things
<jbicha> seed-webkit2 is back in Debian/Ubuntu, I have no idea how hard it would be to switch to that
<mdeslaur> it's just an improvement if webkit2's JS engine has a stable api
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-04-08
<hallyn> hey there, beautiful-desktop peeps, any pointers to screencast best practices?  Better with or without audio?  Better full-screen or small part?
<hallyn> (I hate watching videos so haven't seen enough to have made up my own mind)
<hallyn> well who doesn't want to hear birds chirping in the bg
<hallyn> maybe i'll just stick with scriptreplay(1) and tmux
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-04-09
 * robert_ancell has lost my train of thought / things to work on. Going to be a tough week...
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-04-02
<k_alam> Trevinho: Hi, Can you review and merge patch from robert_ancell (it needs to  be rebased though)......https://code.launchpad.net/~robert-ancell/unity-settings-daemon/accountsservice-background/+merge/335431
<k_alam> Trevinho: See issue here: https://github.com/CanonicalLtd/lightdm/issues/11
<ubot5-ng> CanonicalLtd bug 11 in lightdm "Unity-greeter doesn't change background since 1.25.1 (Bionic)" (comments: 5) [Open]
<ubot5> bug 11 in Launchpad itself "Rosetta says there are untranslated strings, but it isn't" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/11
<jhodapp> I'm curious, if you're upgrading from a 16.04 Unity desktop system to 18.04, will I still have Unity by default? If I want to switch over to the GNOME Shell desktop session, will that just be there and I can select it from the login screen?
<GunnarHj> jhodapp: Yes, I think that's the idea. *Default* will be Ubuntu with Xorg, but Unity will be an option on the login screen.
<om26er> jhodapp: I upgraded one of my systems to 18.04 from 16.04, IIRC it logged into a Gnome Shell session
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-04-03
<Saviq> hey all, is "transparency" (aka graphical glitches) in gedit and gnome calculator a known issue? https://imgur.com/a/cooyd
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<oSoMoN> hey Saviq. duflu, aka Master of the Shell Bugs, would know
<jibel> good morning
<oSoMoN> salut jibel
<jibel> Saviq, not known. snaps or debs and which graphics drivers?
<jibel> oSoMoN, salut osomon
<duflu> Saviq: Looks good. Sell it as a feature
<duflu> But otherwise I've never heard of that before
<duflu> IIRC, macOS does sell that as a feature. Input fields are more transparent than other widgets :)
<duflu> Saviq, I would think it's probably a theme regression (with a stray alpha channel value of zero in the colour somewhere). So please 'ubuntu-bug ubuntu-themes'
<Saviq> duflu: ack
<Saviq> duflu: uninstalled package?
 * Saviq purges communitheme
<duflu> Saviq, that could be it too. If in doubt, use the binary package name: light-themes
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu_> Morning didrocks
<didrocks> hey duflu
<seb128> hey duflu, re didrocks, good morning desktopers
<duflu> Hi seb128
<didrocks> re seb128
<Nafallo> morning o/
<willcooke> morning
<didrocks> good morning Nafallo, willcooke
<seb128> good morning u.k
<seb128> how is the island today?
<Laney> WOH
<Laney> lots of pings, sorry
<Laney> hi!
<seb128> hey willcooke Laney
<seb128> Laney, don't let your IRC on during the w.e :p
<Laney> ohoh
<Laney> never
<Laney> hey seb128
<Laney> what's up?
<Laney> I read that france is on strike today, you should join them
<seb128> lol
<seb128> luckily I don't have to take a train to go to work
<duflu> Morning willcooke, Nafallo, Laney
<seb128> Saviq, hey, your gedit issue looks similar to bug #1620806 which seems has to do with xim being set in ~/.xinputrc ... did you play with IMs?
<ubot5> bug 1620806 in ubuntu-themes (Ubuntu) "gedit edit window is transparent when using Ambiance and Radiance themes" [Undecided,Expired] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1620806
<didrocks> hey Laney!
<Laney> hey duflu, hey didrocks!
<Laney> what's new? good easter?
<duflu> Exhausting. Seemed shorter than a regular weekend
<duflu> But 5 days to Orthodox Easter!
<duflu> You Laney?
<didrocks> hey Laney! A little bit sick during week-end (which was only 3 days in France), so stayed in bed for most of it
<Laney> duflu: we put a pond in, and then it rained for 3 days!
<Laney> so, no need to fill it up manually :P
<duflu> Good, I think?
 * Laney hugs didrocks, hope you are better now
<Laney> Might as well be useful if it's going to come...
 * didrocks hugs Laney back
<didrocks> a little bit better thanks!
<andyrock> hey hey
<andyrock> seb128: I found a big fat memory (and file) leak in snapd-glib
<willcooke> hey andyrock, I saw that bug - nice find.  Is it fixable?
<andyrock> the fix (https://github.com/snapcore/snapd-glib/pull/34) should fix all crash in gnome-software that has a "Too many open files" in the stacktrace
<ubot5-ng> snapcore bug (Pull request) 34 in snapd-glib "Properly unref SnapdClient" (comments: 0) [Open]
<willcooke> ha, yes it is
<willcooke> nice one andyrock
<seb128> andyrock, hey, nice work. robert_ancell is looking after this project but he's on vac this week
<seb128> oh nice
<andyrock> kk there is no rush
<seb128> that's like one of the most reported issues on gnome-software
<andyrock> yeah
<seb128> one that Robert didn't know how to figure out
<seb128> did you hit the leak by luck in local testing? or did you figure that out?
<andyrock> just checking why the "too many open files" was appearing so often
<andyrock> with this is easier to reproduce https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/rF5tHn5BwG/
<andyrock> keep pressed the enter ke for a while
<andyrock> *key
<andyrock> and you'll see the list of open files growing
<seb128> nice finding
<andyrock> Also https://github.com/storaged-project/udisks/pull/515
<ubot5-ng> storaged-project bug (Pull request) 515 in udisks "main.c: Properly remove sigint source" (comments: 3) [Open]
<seb128> I tried to ask on  a few reports for lsof outputs
<andyrock> this should fix https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/93775674877696284083874f33927631ec531a70
<seb128> andyrock, is that https://github.com/storaged-project/udisks/issues/417#issuecomment-378175412 ?
<ubot5-ng> storaged-project bug 417 in udisks "udisks segfault in g_mutex_lock()" (comments: 8) [Open]
<ubot5> bug 417 in ding (Ubuntu) "dict-de-en encoding not UTF-8" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/417
<seb128> yes, it is
<seb128> double amazing today
<willcooke> \m/
<seb128> that was one of the most reported e.u.c issue as well
<seb128> and one people upstream had no clue about from my report
<willcooke> I see robert_ancell!  Holiday fail?
<seb128> duflu, that bluez fix sounds worth backporting, why do you think it's better to way at this point?
<robert_ancell> willcooke, yeah, forgot to cancel that one..
<willcooke> robert_ancell, oh - are you not on holiday now?
<duflu> seb128, because the workaround is trivial, without a fix. And we get the fix for free in v5.50 too
<seb128> robert_ancell, hey!
<didrocks> good evening robert_ancell :)
<duflu> Also, just about everything else is more important than that bluez bug
<seb128> robert_ancell, seems like andyrock found out a snapd-glib fd leak that could explain those gnome-software gwakeup segfault reports
<duflu> Could that explain jibel's gnome-shell crash too?
<seb128> duflu, k, my distro-maintainer-instinct makes me want to do just dump that patch in the package and upload :p
<robert_ancell> willcooke, depends if kenvandine is able to cancel the booked in holiday :)
<seb128> duflu, could be, I'm unsure which one you are referring to
<robert_ancell> But yeah, ideally I'm not on holiday this week
<seb128> \o/
<seb128> wb robert_ancell :p
<seb128> robert_ancell, we need you to land the wizard and that snapd-glib fix from andyrock :)
<duflu> seb128, bug 1760062
<ubot5> bug 1760062 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "gnome-shell crashed with SIGSEGV in g_log_default_handler() from default_log_handler(log_domain="GLib", log_level=6, message="Creating pipes for GWakeup: Too many open files\n", data=0x0)" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1760062
<seb128> oh yeah
<duflu> It scares me we have a shell that does IO
<seb128> duflu, bug #1760795 is the leak reference
<ubot5> bug 1760795 in snapd-glib (Ubuntu Bionic) "gnome-software leaks file descriptors" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1760795
 * didrocks just uploaded v1.0.3 of the API :)
<robert_ancell> seb128, there's a bunch of fixes in one commit... I'll have to pull them apart.
<seb128> robert_ancell, or ask andyrock to do it :)
<andyrock> I  can do that later today. I need to be afk for a while
<seb128> no hurry, it's evening for robert_ancell anyway so I guess that's something for tomorrow for him
<willcooke> didrocks, can I share your hub post aboutt the theme snap work on the socials?
<didrocks> willcooke: sure, it's not an official announcement yet, I thought to write a blog post once it's all ready (probably start of next week)
<didrocks> willcooke: do you want to have that as a pre-warming up? :)
<willcooke> didrocks, yeah, just show that we're working on it
<willcooke> get people interested
<didrocks> doing in a few
<willcooke> didrocks,  I can do it
<willcooke> didrocks, or I can reshare yours. Whatever is better for you
<didrocks> willcooke: no worry, I'll do it in 10 minutes, just finishing up something
<willcooke> didrocks, merci
<didrocks> de rien :)
<robert_ancell> andyrock, I'm committing the simple stuff in separate commits now - you'll have to rebase
<didrocks> willcooke: done: https://twitter.com/didrocks/status/981100980971466753 and https://plus.google.com/+DidierRoche/posts/HU8o4AXEfbq
<willcooke> didrocks, woot
<Saviq> seb128: I did not
<Saviq> it's "run_im ibus" there
<Saviq> removing .xinput didn't help
<Saviq> filed bug #1760818
<ubot5> bug 1760818 in ubuntu-themes (Ubuntu) "gedit and gnome-calculator transparency/graphics corruption issue" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1760818
<duflu> Saviq: No idea how to reproduce your bug. But I'll try harder and set up bionic on a similar generation GPU to yours tonight
 * duflu puts chef hat on
<darkxst> hey desktoppers
<andyrock> seb128: https://code.launchpad.net/~azzar1/software-properties/livepatch-install-from-stable/+merge/342457
<andyrock> and https://code.launchpad.net/~azzar1/software-properties/depends-on-keyring/+merge/342449
<amano> Trevinho, taking a screenshot under wayland using the "prnscrn" key works but using "alt+prnscrn" makes some screenshot colors go funky. Is that known already or shall I file a bug?
<doko> oSoMoN: the two font MIRs look fine. please could you add a bug subscriber?
<oSoMoN> doko, is ~libreoffice fine?
<doko> oSoMoN: I don't think so
<oSoMoN> seb128, would you mind subscribing ~desktop-packages to bugs for fonts-liberation2 and fonts-hosny-amiri (bug #1757142 and bug #1757148) ?
<ubot5> bug 1757142 in fonts-liberation2 (Ubuntu) "[MIR] fonts-liberation2" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1757142
<ubot5> bug 1757148 in fonts-hosny-amiri (Ubuntu) "[MIR] fonts-hosny-amiri" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1757148
<seb128> oSoMoN, doko, desktop-pacakges subscribed
<oSoMoN> thanks!
<seb128> yw!
<mgedmin> amano: I've seen an upstream bug for that (some kind of texture format confusion in mesa iirc?), but I don't remember where
<mgedmin> amano: ah, thank you chrome history: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/issues/72
<ubot5-ng> GNOME bug 72 in mutter "Screenshot doesn't have the correct colours" (comments: 9) [Closed]
<ubot5> Error: Gnome bug 72 could not be found
<jibel> seb128, would you know why there are errors like this in retraced stack traces?
<jibel> #6  0x00007fe8288efbe1 in start_sync (data=<optimized out>, data=<optimized out>) at snapd-client-sync.c:24
<jibel>   [Error: snapd-client-sync.c was not found in source tree]
<jibel> for example https://launchpadlibrarian.net/362723254/StacktraceSource.txt
<jibel> snapd-client-sync.c comes from snapd-glib
<seb128> not without looking at the details of how apport-retrace works but if I had to guess I would say because apport-retrace only unpack the source of the component it's retracing, not from its depends
<seb128> and ddeb don't include the .c
<seb128> which I think -debug variant of rpms on e.g fedora do
<doko> seb128: spech-dispatcher (desktop packages) recommends sound-icons. keep it that way and file a MIR, or drop it to a suggests?
<seb128> doko, let me have a look
<amano> mgedmin, thanks. If I read that correctly the fix will be present in mutter 3.28.1 then (it is on the 3.28 branch already)
<seb128> doko, downgrading to suggests sound fine to me for now, we have enough MIRs in process for this cycle
<oSoMoN> seb128, IÂ guess you didn't have time to look at my lib{,app}indicator multiarch changes last week, any chance you can have a look some time this week?
<doko> jbicha, seb128: there is a fix for the brotli ftbfs: https://github.com/google/brotli/pull/656
<ubot5-ng> google bug (Pull request) 656 in brotli "Update" (comments: 0) [Closed]
<oSoMoN> (not urgent by any means, just checking on it to not forget)
<seb128> doko, right, I still think it's not correct to block the MIR for a bug in the proposed version when bionic itself is fine
<seb128> oSoMoN, no I didn't, I'm going to try, I would still not say no if Laney wanted to do that though :)
<willcooke> It's the new meeting time
<didrocks> o/
<willcooke> We might have caught some folk by surprise, let's see
<willcooke> #startmeeting Desktop Team Weekly Meeting 2018-04-03
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Apr  3 13:31:50 2018 UTC.  The chair is willcooke. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting 2018-04-03 | Current topic:
<willcooke> Roll call: andyrock, dgadomski, didrocks, duflu (out), jbicha, jamesh (out), jibel/heber, kenvandine (out), laney, oSoMoN, seb128, tkamppeter, trevinho, robert_ancell (out)
<andyrock> o/
<seb128> hey
<heber> o/
<jibel> o/
<oSoMoN> o/
<willcooke> Looks like we've got enough people to get started
<willcooke> #topic andyrock
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting 2018-04-03 | Current topic: andyrock
<jbicha> o/
<andyrock> - Update patch to hide snaps from gnome-system-monitor (LP: #1749007). Blocked waiting
<andyrock>   for squashfs to reponds us back.
<andyrock> - Fix proposed upstream for LP: #1707451 (approved, need to build a debdiff)
<andyrock> - Fix merged upstream for LP: #1760005 (we'll get in once 3.28.1 is released)
<andyrock> - Fix proposed for LP: #1760096 (blocked on below MP)
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1749007 in gnome-system-monitor (Ubuntu) "Snap mounts should be hidden from System Monitor" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1749007
<andyrock> - Fix proposed for LP: #1760117 (small change required after review)
<andyrock> - Fix proposed for LP: #1760795 (under active review!)
<andyrock> - Fix proposed upstream for LP: #1760858 (waiting for upstream review)
<andyrock> - Additional work for Livepatch Page and ubuntu-welcome.
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1707451 in udisks2 (Ubuntu) "udisksd crashed with SIGSEGV in g_mutex_lock()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1707451
<andyrock> Reviews:
<andyrock> - https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/ubuntu-themes/backdrop-switch-fix/+merge/342261
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1760005 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "Dialog 'add custom shortcut dialog' is unusable with keyboard only" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1760005
<andyrock> - https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/ubuntu-themes/only-child-scale-states-fix/+merge/342262
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1760096 in software-properties (Ubuntu) "/usr/bin/software-properties-gtk:GLib.GError:/usr/bin/software-properties-gtk@101:__init__:init_livepatch:__init__:_load" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1760096
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1760117 in software-properties (Ubuntu Bionic) "software-properties-gtk installs canonical-livepatch from edge" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1760117
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1760795 in snapd-glib (Ubuntu Bionic) "gnome-software leaks file descriptors" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1760795
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1760858 in guake (Ubuntu) "/usr/bin/guake:UnboundLocalError:on_window_halign_value_changed" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1760858
<andyrock> - https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/ubuntu-themes/headerbar-switch-sep-margins/+merge/342260
<andyrock> - https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/ubuntu-themes/windowbuttons-bg-and-padding/+merge/342171
<andyrock> EOW
<willcooke> busy week, thanks andyrock
<willcooke> #topic dgadomski
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting 2018-04-03 | Current topic: dgadomski
<dgadomski> hey
<dgadomski> I was on holidays for most of the last week and sprinting the week before so nothing this week.
<dgadomski> eof
<willcooke> cheers dgadomski
<willcooke> #topic didrocks
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting 2018-04-03 | Current topic: didrocks
<didrocks> hey
<didrocks> 4 days week (Monday was off)
<didrocks> * Telemetry:
<didrocks>   - ubiquity: report booleans when fitting, and add last step "user_done" to know for how long the last user step took. (https://code.launchpad.net/~didrocks/ubiquity/telemetry-adjustements/+merge/342120)
<didrocks>   - ubuntu-report: debian packaging, removing vendoring support for ubuntu, add autopkgtests, incremental changes on the C API from Robert's feedback.
<didrocks>   - push FFe for telemetry https://launchpad.net/bugs/1755456 and MIR https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-report/+bug/1759540
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1755456 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "[ffe] Optional recording/sending of installer&system details to help improving Ubuntu" [Undecided,Triaged]
<didrocks> * Default experience:
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1759540 in ubuntu-report (Ubuntu) "[MIR] ubuntu-report: send telemetry data to ubuntu server" [Undecided,New]
<didrocks>   - rebase ubuntu dock on latest dash to dock master
<didrocks>   - rebase appindicator extension on latest master
<didrocks> * Communitheme:
<didrocks>   - started to bring the communitheme snap support into bionic.
<didrocks>   - gnome-shell: ensure that theme lookup respect XDG_DATA_DIRS: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/3.28.0-0ubuntu2. Also pushed the patch upstream: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-shell/merge_requests/70
<didrocks>   - session: add the new theme session: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-session/3.28.0-0ubuntu2
<ubot5-ng> GNOME bug (Merge request) 70 in gnome-shell "ui: Theme lookup should respect XDG_DATA_DIRS" (comments: 0) [Opened]
<didrocks>   - ubuntu-settings: default settings for the new session type https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-settings/18.04.1
<didrocks>   - communicate and follow discussions on the snapification: https://community.ubuntu.com/t/snapping-communitheme/4890
<didrocks>   - promote gnome-themes-extra and gtk2-engines-pixbuf needed for communitheme
<didrocks> * Misc:
<didrocks>   - fixed targeted for release translation bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/+bug/1719462
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1719462 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu Bionic) "[Translation] "Left" and "Right" must be translated differently in different contexts" [Low,Fix released]
<didrocks>   - amazon removed from minimal install
<didrocks>   - discussion and remote help on session handling for xrdp
<didrocks> .oOo.
<willcooke> also very busy!  Thanks didrocks
<willcooke> #topic duflu
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting 2018-04-03 | Current topic: duflu
<willcooke> * Gnome Shell memory usage (was my main focus this week):
<willcooke>   - Ongoing massive leak from opening activities overview (https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-shell/issues/160) - I am making measurable progress on this each day (including a third of my Easter weekend) in narrowing down the issue. Although I do now have a couple of workarounds that work, I would rather get to the root cause (and that's also the only type of fix upstream likes anyway).
<willcooke>   - Large mmaps due to PulseAudio client code (https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-shell/issues/159) - Not explored yet.
<willcooke> * Bluetooth audio news, unexpectedly:
<willcooke>   - PulseAudio upstream has maybe just figured out how to fix (most) skipping. When the fix lands upstream we will grab it. (https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/405294)
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 405294 in pulseaudio (Ubuntu) "A2DP Bluetooth audio skips terribly ["Skipping NNN us (= MMM bytes) in audio stream"]" [High,Triaged]
<ubot5-ng> GNOME bug 160 in gnome-shell "st_widget_paint_background leaks about 5MB of textures every time I open/close the activities overview" (comments: 6) [Opened]
<ubot5> Error: Gnome bug 160 could not be found
<ubot5-ng> GNOME bug 159 in gnome-shell "80% (512MB) of gnome-shell's memory mappings at start up are due to PulseAudio" (comments: 0) [Opened]
<ubot5> Error: Gnome bug 159 could not be found
<willcooke>   - BlueZ regression in 5.48/18.04: Bluetooth audio fails to reconnect after resume (https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1759628). The fix exists already but it's not major enough to patch just yet.
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1759628 in bluez (Ubuntu) " bluez regression: Bluetooth audio fails to reconnect after resume " [Medium,Triaged]
<willcooke> * Gnome Shell performance:
<willcooke>   - Xorg and Wayland:
<willcooke>     . Clock/animations smoothness fix: Still blocked awaiting upstream review, although Marco said last week he was in the process of landing it (https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/merge_requests/26)
<willcooke>   - Wayland-only:
<ubot5-ng> GNOME bug (Merge request) 26 in mutter "clutter: Smooth out master clock to smooth visuals" (comments: 4) [Opened]
<willcooke>     . More efficient rendering for Wayland sessions: Finally landed this one upstream in mutter master and is in 3.28.1 too: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/merge_requests/25
<ubot5-ng> GNOME bug (Merge request) 25 in mutter "renderer-native: Swap then await earlier flips." (comments: 5) [Merged]
<willcooke>     . eglnative (Wayland) flipping clean-up: Still blocked awaiting upstream review (https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/merge_requests/29)
<ubot5-ng> GNOME bug (Merge request) 29 in mutter "eglnative: Simplify and remove 'fb_in_use'" (comments: 4) [Opened]
<willcooke> * Daily bug management across gnome-shell, mutter, gdm3, ubuntu-themes, bluez, pulseaudio, dkms, wayland, totem, mpv, libinput.
<willcooke>   - Progress, mostly backwards this week: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vRDHPxGBHqM6XkT_S8ggtYfD0xchKSUD_z9PopNVE3G1rU05fVSnxDGcDsEstl7gu7N-tzCU6mLUp2V/pubchart?oid=254968654&format=interactive
<willcooke> #topic jbicha
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting 2018-04-03 | Current topic: jbicha
<jbicha> â¢ Turned off auto-suspend when plugged in LP: #1759008 (and a few other ubuntu-settings fixes)
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1759008 in ubuntu-settings (Ubuntu Bionic) "Revert automatic suspend by default for bionic?" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1759008
<jbicha> â¢ Finished UI change for the installer LP: #1758082
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1758082 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "[UIFe] Update ubiquity's Minimal Install page to match the spec" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1758082
<jbicha> â¢ Packaged gimp 2.8.22 and had Debian GNOME team adopt the package to help updates be more timely in the future
<jbicha> â¢ Packaged gimp 2.10 RC1 in experimental and its 2 new dependencies (libmypaint and mypaint-data)
<jbicha> â¢ Fixed gdebi issue (restored a vte2.91 patch that upstream suggested we could delete) LP: #1756238
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1756238 in gdebi (Ubuntu) "gdebi-gtk broken in 18.04 error: unable to read filedescriptor flags" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1756238
<jbicha> â¢ darkxst did his first unsponsored uploads to Debian last week
<jbicha> â¢ Made some suggestions for https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntustudio-meta/0.177
<jbicha> â¢ Uploaded new vala point release to fix last vala rdepend FTBFS introduced by the 0.40 series. Thanks ricotz!
<jbicha> LP: #1756803
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1756803 in synapse (Ubuntu) "0.2.99.3 won't build with vala 0.40.0" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1756803
<jbicha> â¢ Removed ancient mozjs from Debian (will do the same in bionic soon). Debian bug 894238
<ubot5> Debian bug 894238 in ftp.debian.org "RM: mozjs -- RoQA; unmaintained, superseded by mozjs52" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/894238
<jbicha> â¢ The only thing using mozjs38 is cjs which will be fixed in their next release, (the only thing left usiing mozjs52 is gjs)
<jbicha> eof
<willcooke> thanks for changing the power settings when plugged in.  That's been annoying me on my test machine this week ;)
<willcooke> thanks jbicha
<willcooke> #topic jamesh
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting 2018-04-03 | Current topic: jamesh
<willcooke> I didn't get an update from James, and Ken has an appointment this morning.
<willcooke> So let's move on.
<willcooke> #topic jibel / heber
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting 2018-04-03 | Current topic: jibel / heber
<jibel> hi
<jibel> - Reviewed and merged changes to updates & software page of Ubiquity
<jibel> - Reviewed and merged updates to the installer slideshow for 18.04
<jibel> - Reviewed and verified changes in casper to disable gnome-software service on the live session
<jibel> - Triaged and cleaned up gnome-software crashes in bionic.
<jibel> - Analyze and fix ubiquity tests in jenkins
<jibel> - Analyze and fix ubuntu system tests that are filing in jenkins
<jibel> and done
<willcooke> nice, thanks jibel
<willcooke> #topic kenvandine
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting 2018-04-03 | Current topic: kenvandine
<willcooke> Ken had to go out, and didnt realise we'd move the meeting
<willcooke> He can update us later
<willcooke> #topic Laney
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting 2018-04-03 | Current topic: Laney
<seb128> willcooke, btw I'm not sure we are reviewing the milestoned bugs people have as we go?
<Laney> â¢ v short week
<Laney> â¢ autopkgtest:
<Laney> â review pinning change from elbrus
<Laney> â another pinning bug triggered by python which killed armhf this morning, handheld the fix for that
<Laney> â tried to ping on whether the sprint is happening, no luck yet
<Laney> â¢ release:
<Laney> â reviewed some FFes and stuff
<Laney> â livecd-rootfs changes for lubuntu merged and uploaded
<Laney> â¢ rls bugs:
<Laney> â https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-menus/+bug/1747717: previous upgrade failure seems gone, didn't manage to reproduce this in a chroot, currently installing a VM to see if it happens there
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1747717 in gnome-menus (Ubuntu Bionic) "package gnome-menus 3.13.3-11ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: triggers looping, abandoned - gnome-menus -> ufw" [High,Confirmed]
<Laney> â http://launchpad.net/bugs/1750846: I didn't make much progress on that this week, going to make a hacked ISO with more logging turned on as it's really hard to get into that early environment (although systemd.unit=rescue.target is quite helpful)
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1750846 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu Bionic) "several g-s-d services are timing out when booting a live session" [High,Confirmed]
<Laney> â¢ reviewed/tested/uploaded JB's casper fix to not start gnome-session
<Laney> â¢ spent some time debugging glib2.0 test failure, fix proposed upstream now https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=794801
<ubot5-ng> bugzilla.gnome.org bug 794801 in gio "/network-monitor/add_networks fails if there is a proxy and glib-networking is installed" [Normal, New] - Assigned to gtkdev
<ubot5> Gnome bug 794801 in gio "/network-monitor/add_networks fails if there is a proxy and glib-networking is installed" [Normal,New]
<ubot5> bug 794801 in Percona Server moved to https://jira.percona.com/projects/PS 5.1 "main.mysql_client_test and main.grant fail on valgrind 64bit" [Critical,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/794801
<Laney> ð
<willcooke> seb128, oh I was going to do that at the end
<willcooke> thanks Laney
<seb128> would maybe be more clear if people added a "no milestoned bug" when they don't have any
<Laney> thought we were supposed to put them in the status
<seb128> willcooke, oh ok, we said we would include them in status updates
<seb128> yes
<willcooke> kk, let's do that from here on it, and I can come back to the others at the end
<seb128> otherwise we do a review round for those, then one for tagged bugs, then one for...
<willcooke> ack
<willcooke> #topic oSoMoN
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting 2018-04-03 | Current topic: oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> hey
<oSoMoN> â¢ firefox
<oSoMoN>   â filed and fixed https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1449864
<ubot5-ng> bugzilla.mozilla.org bug 1449864 in Release Automation "[snap package] removable-media plug needed to allow saving downloaded files to /media" [Normal, Unconfirmed] - Assigned to olivier
<ubot5> Mozilla bug 1449864 in Release Automation "[snap package] removable-media plug needed to allow saving downloaded files to /media" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<ubot5> Error: Launchpad bug 1449864 could not be found
<oSoMoN> â¢ chromium
<oSoMoN>   â 65.0.3325.181 now in {trusty,xenial,artful}-{security,updates}
<oSoMoN>   â catching up on beta builds
<oSoMoN> â¢ libreoffice
<oSoMoN>   â prepared 5.4.6 build for artful, currently sitting in the unapproved queue
<oSoMoN>   â fonts-liberation2 and fonts-hosny-amiri now promoted to main (IÂ had filed MIRs to fix component mismatches a couple of weeks ago)
<oSoMoN>   â 6.0.3 RC1 is in the candidate channel, and I'm preparing a build of 6.0.3 RC2
<oSoMoN> â¢ snaps
<oSoMoN>   â investigated https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/cant-use-input-method-in-snap-apps/4712 and submitted a couple of PRs to make ibus input work out of the box in snaps that use the desktop-gtk{2,3} launchers
<oSoMoN>   â looked a bit into ibus support in Qt apps, but haven't figured out all the missing pieces yet
<oSoMoN> â¢ rls-bb bugs:
<oSoMoN>   â bug #1754671 - haven't looked at it yet (too short a week), will do tomorrow
<ubot5> bug 1754671 in network-manager (Ubuntu Bionic) "Full-tunnel VPN DNS leakage regression" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1754671
<oSoMoN> ð¤¸
<willcooke> thanks oSoMoN
<willcooke> #topic seb128
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting 2018-04-03 | Current topic: seb128
<seb128> this week
<seb128> â¢ 3 work days only this week
<seb128> â¢ reviewed ubuntu-report for source/bin NEW - https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-report
<seb128> â¢ helped with some bionic translations issues (e-d-s import, discussed launchpad/plural form/gettext validation issue impacting gnome-shell, snapd, unity indicators) - https://launchpad.net/bugs/1756547 https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/translation-management/4798
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1756547 in Ubuntu Translations "LP refuses to import plural strings where e.g. msgstr[0] entries in PO file miss %d" [High,In progress]
<seb128> â¢ some sponsoring (gsequencer)
<seb128> â¢ updated bolt - https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bolt/0.2-0ubuntu1
<seb128> â¢ debugged udisks flacky test and backported an upstream fix - https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/udisks2/2.7.6-2ubuntu5
<seb128> â¢ changed dconf to create ~/.config not as worldreadable - https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/d-conf/0.26.0-2ubuntu3
<seb128> â¢ spent some time fighting with lxc/lxd/autopkgtest to try to debug the d-conf update issue (which is not an armhf one but a under-lxc problem, thanks Laney for the thint)
<seb128> â¢ reviewed the trello board/features status
<seb128> â¢ bionic milestoned bugs
<seb128> â bug 1756378 - fix uploaded
<ubot5> bug 1756378 in udisks2 (Ubuntu Bionic) "Udisks2 flacky test (regression from 2.7)" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1756378
<seb128> â bug 1735929 - half of the fixes uploaded, other coming this week
<ubot5> bug 1735929 in gnome-session (Ubuntu Bionic) "security problems with incorrect permissions for ubuntu 17.10" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1735929
<seb128> </week>
<willcooke> thanks seb128
<willcooke> #topic tkamppeter
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting 2018-04-03 | Current topic: tkamppeter
<tkamppeter> - Milestone Bugs: CUPS 2.2.7 is out and packaged for Debian and Ubuntu fixing lots of bugs, fixes backported from CUPS 2.3.x according to upstream. This includes the known crashers.
<tkamppeter> - cups-filters: Released 1.20.2 fixing several bugs. Especially if one creates a print queue with the same name as cups-browsed uses cups-browsed rleases the name then and does not remove the queue on shutdown. Also made distinguishing of remote CUPS printers and IPP network printers more reliable. Uploaded this version also to Ubuntu.
<tkamppeter> - ippusbxd: Got a major modification (as pull request) to make the communication between socket and USB printer working without content parsing. Tested this new version and reported what still needs to get fixed.
<tkamppeter> - Google Summer of Code 2018: Made sure that all mentors for OpenPrinting are correctly assigned to their students, asked the non-OpenPrinting groups of the Linux Foundation to do the same and tell about their need of student slots, to find the total number of needed slots.
<tkamppeter> - Bugs.
<willcooke> thanks tkamppeter
<willcooke> #topic Trevinho
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting 2018-04-03 | Current topic: Trevinho
<jbicha> tkamppeter: did you see my comment at LP: #1752579 ?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1752579 in brlaser (Ubuntu) "Needs sponsoring: Upload brlaser 4" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1752579
<seb128> willcooke, I've Trevinho's update
<seb128> Â· Various reviews on mutter, landed and cherry picked couple of fixes, including duflu fix
<seb128>   https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/merge_requests/25
<seb128> Â· Theme fixes (including better usability of window buttons) done and landed:
<seb128>   - https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/ubuntu-themes/windowbuttons-bg-and-padding/+merge/342171
<seb128>   - https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/ubuntu-themes/backdrop-switch-fix/+merge/342261
<seb128>   - https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/ubuntu-themes/only-child-scale-states-fix/+merge/342262
<ubot5-ng> GNOME bug (Merge request) 25 in mutter "renderer-native: Swap then await earlier flips." (comments: 5) [Merged]
<seb128>   - https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/ubuntu-themes/headerbar-switch-sep-margins/+merge/342260
<seb128> Â· Found an issue in gtk on scaling css images, wrote and proposed but upstream rejected as not a bug for them.
<seb128>  - https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/merge_requests/93
<seb128> Â· Moved fix as per above to Mutter then (hidpi fix for mutter theming):
<ubot5-ng> GNOME bug (Merge request) 93 in gtk "cssimagesurface: scale cache using the css provider scaling" (comments: 7) [Closed]
<seb128>  - https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/merge_requests/61
<ubot5-ng> GNOME bug (Merge request) 61 in mutter "theme, frames: Use surface device scale instead of cairo_scale" (comments: 2) [1. Bug, Opened]
<seb128> Â· More mutter fixes for theming and HiDPI:
<seb128>  - https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/merge_requests/60
<seb128>  - https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/merge_requests/62
<ubot5-ng> GNOME bug (Merge request) 60 in mutter "theme: Add ".appmenu" class to the appmenu button" (comments: 0) [Opened]
<seb128>  - https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/merge_requests/64
<ubot5-ng> GNOME bug (Merge request) 62 in mutter "theme: Use gtk_render_icon_suface to paint button icons" (comments: 1) [Opened]
<ubot5-ng> GNOME bug (Merge request) 64 in mutter "theme: Get scaling from GDK_SCALE if set" (comments: 0) [Opened]
<seb128>  - https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/merge_requests/63
<ubot5-ng> GNOME bug (Merge request) 63 in mutter "theme: Allow to override the theme using GTK_THEME env variable" (comments: 2) [Opened]
<seb128>  - Working on opacity support (needed by appmenu)
<seb128> Â· Some new review of ken's script:
<seb128>  - https://github.com/ubuntu/snapcraft-desktop-helpers/pull/103
<ubot5-ng> ubuntu bug (Pull request) 103 in snapcraft-desktop-helpers "If the user-dirs.* exists in the $REALHOME, link them into the snap's XDG_CONFIG_HOME." (comments: 3) [Open]
<seb128> Â· Review and landing of robert u-s-d branch:
<seb128>  - https://code.launchpad.net/~robert-ancell/unity-settings-daemon/accountsservice-background/+merge/335431
<tkamppeter> jbicha, yes, but I did not really do any testing not having an appropriate printer.
<seb128> </trevinho's update>
<jbicha> tkamppeter: I believe you can still file the FFe in that case, just mention that detail
<willcooke> Does Trevinho have any milestoned bugs?  Looking....
<seb128> bug #1756826 and bug #1758712
<ubot5> bug 1756826 in nautilus (Ubuntu Bionic) "hangs when locate search provider matches a lot of files" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1756826
<ubot5> bug 1758712 in ubuntu-themes (Ubuntu Bionic) "GNOME Builder Omnibar theming issue with Ambiance" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1758712
<seb128> looks like he didn't act on those yet
<tkamppeter> jbicha, I have only seen that new upstream version and replaced the upstream source the new one.
<seb128> I'm going to remind him :)
<tkamppeter> jbicha, and it built.
<willcooke> thanks seb128
<seb128> Trevinho, ^ please include the status of your assigned/milestoned bugs next week  (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/bionic/?field.assignee=3v1n0)
<willcooke> #topic robert_ancell
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting 2018-04-03 | Current topic: robert_ancell
<willcooke> - Integrated gnome-initial-setup with new ubuntu-report metric service
<willcooke> - GNOME Software SRU to Xenial (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-software/3.20.5-0ubuntu0.16.04.10)
<willcooke> - Update GNOME software patch to mockup featured snaps
<willcooke> (looking at his bugs)
<willcooke> looks o
<willcooke> ok
<seb128> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/bionic/?field.assignee=robert-ancell has 3
<seb128> seems like he didn't look at those yet
<willcooke> that's a useful search, thanks seb128, obviously better than mine
<seb128> kenvandine, ^ it might be worth reminding him to do that for next week?
<seb128> willcooke, :)
<willcooke> #topic rls bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting 2018-04-03 | Current topic: rls bugs
<willcooke> andyrock, any release bugs?
<andyrock> nope
<willcooke> didrocks, any rls bugs?
<didrocks> that was part of my report: I fixed one, didn't mention more as I don't have any still opened, should have been explicit
<seb128> is that covering the people where we didn't ask before?
<willcooke> yeah
<seb128> k
<willcooke> well, those who are here
<jbicha> my only rls bug was the suspend issue which is done
<willcooke> jbicha, any rls bugs?
<willcooke> :)
<willcooke> thanks
<willcooke> jibel, any for you?
<seb128> andyrock, you have 2, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/bionic/?field.assignee=azzar1, but they are waiting for review/sponsoring
<andyrock> ah I tough we were talking about http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<willcooke> that's coming next :)
<andyrock> ah
<jibel> willcooke, I'd like to reconsider bug 1748450 that has benn removed from the list last week.
<ubot5> bug 1748450 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "gnome-shell crashed with SIGTRAP in _g_log_abort() from g_log_default_handler() from default_log_handler(message="Connection to xwayland lost") from g_logv() from g_log() from <bug 1505409>" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1748450
<andyrock> so yeah I'm working on those right now
<jibel> other than that anything else is on the list
<willcooke> ok, let's review the incoming list then.
<seb128> jibel, willcooke, Tim pointed that this issue is a gdm/greeter one and should have no user visible impact out of apport spam
<willcooke> This time it will be a simple yes or no as to whether or not we will (try to) fix it
<seb128> which we wouldn't have if we turned nagging off by default :p
<willcooke> seb128, lets talk about that after the meeting? nagging that is
<seb128> k
<Laney> again?
<willcooke> #topic rls-bb-incoming review
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting 2018-04-03 | Current topic: rls-bb-incoming review
<willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1724439
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1724439 in Mutter "gnome-shell crashed with SIGSEGV in meta_window_get_monitor() from ffi_call_unix64() from ffi_call() from gjs_invoke_c_function() from function_call()" [Medium,In progress]
<willcooke> duflu wanted that on the list, and has linked to some upstream fixes
<seb128> let's assign to him then?
<willcooke> +1
<willcooke> just reading upstream
<willcooke> next: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-software/+bug/1741119
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1741119 in gnome-software (Ubuntu) "Software App crashed while in the background - was installing MATE Desktop via terminal" [High,Confirmed]
<willcooke> jibel,  is that happening a lot?
<didrocks> quite some dups
<seb128> that's likely a dup from the snapd-glib fd leak that andyrock chassed down
<seb128> bug #1760795
<ubot5> bug 1760795 in snapd-glib (Ubuntu Bionic) "gnome-software leaks file descriptors" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1760795
<seb128> it hits a lack of fds
<willcooke> k, assigning to robert then
<seb128> +1
<andyrock> core file should include the list of open files
<willcooke> next: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1758647
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1758647 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "ubiquity doesn't preselect the right default keyboard layout" [High,Confirmed]
<willcooke> Anyone want to take that one?
<seb128> yes, you can assign to me I want to at least have a look
<willcooke> the Dutchman
<seb128> :p
<jibel> willcooke, it's frequent but could find a way to reproduce it
<jibel> could not*
<willcooke> which bit is the right bit? ubiquity?
<seb128> g-s I guess
<jibel> it could be due to the switch of order of the keyboard page
<willcooke> next: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/udisks2/+bug/1757321
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1757321 in udisks2 (Ubuntu) "udisks2 must depend on libblockdev-crypto2 and libblockdev-mdraid2 instead of suggests [Can't mount encrypted USB drive after upgrade to bionic]" [High,Triaged]
<jbicha> LP: #1754422 was approved by Security, just needs a final MIR approval
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1754422 in volume-key (Ubuntu) "[MIR] volume-key" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1754422
<willcooke> jbicha, can I assign to you?
<seb128> good!
<jbicha> willcooke: um, I think it needs a MIR team member to say we're good, after that, I can add the recommends back
<jbicha> (I assume we don't need it to be a depends)
<seb128> that's a misleading representation of their position
<jbicha> approved reluctantly
<seb128> but we said we should argue over the bugs content here
<seb128> well, they said they would prefer to bring back the old method of handling those
<jibel> as long as the dependency is installed on upgrade it's fine
<seb128> which we didn't look if it was possible
<seb128> anyway, not a topic for that part of the meeting
<jbicha> seb128: I don't think it's really practical for us to fork udisksâ¦
<willcooke> lets not dig in too deep now, who can own the problem?
<seb128> willcooke, we said previous week that we didn't know how to handle a MIR and decided to skip over that one, let's do the same again?
<willcooke> ok
<seb128> since that's not under our team control
<willcooke> maybe next week it will be approved etc
<jbicha> I can handle it except that I don't think it's appropriate to assign me the MIR because of MIR processes
<seb128> yeah
<willcooke> next: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/system-config-printer/+bug/1760027
<seb128> thx jbicha
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1760027 in system-config-printer (Ubuntu) "system-config-printer.py crashed with NameError in /usr/share/system-config-printer/jobviewer.py: name 'Secret' is not defined" [High,Triaged]
<seb128> seems like a missing depends
<seb128> yes, assign to tkamppeter?
<willcooke> ah yes
<willcooke> next: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1747566
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1747566 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "syslog fills with messages: Object ..., has been already finalized. Impossible to get any property from it. ... (stack trace in tweener.js)" [High,In progress]
<jibel> it was maybe just transitional because it stopped after march 26th
<Laney> it only ever had 39 reports, is that a good candidate for a rls bug?
<Laney> sorry, moved on already
<seb128> Laney, it's trivial to fix if it's a missing depends...
<Laney> so every easy bug should be an rls bug?
<seb128> I'm unsure we are consistent on what to do for those cases, I though you argued we should fix one of the bugs previous week because it was an obvious error and easy to fix case
<seb128> I don't have a strong opinion
<didrocks> sounds like on the G-S one that this one got review (yes!) but Marco didn't answer on it for a couple of month, I've always been annoyed by that one, filing up logs
<seb128> it would take me less time to upload the fix than this argument :p
<willcooke> That next bug is already assigned to Trevinho
<willcooke> so going to target
<seb128> k
<didrocks> yeah, he may needs a ping to fix the comments though
<seb128> willcooke, do you have an opinion on the trivial bugs should be targetted or not?
<seb128> which is a fair point Laney raised
<seb128> didrocks, willcooke, I can nag Trevinho about that comment
<didrocks> thx ;)
<jibel> for reference, I added this bug because we receive a fair amount of report over a short period of time. But since it stopped, so it could be removed from the list
<willcooke> seb128, hard to say.  Each one needs looking at on its own.  If that's a simple fix and tkamppeter has time to fix it, then yes, let's fix it.
<jibel> received even
<willcooke> next: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/1577885
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1577885 in systemd (Ubuntu) "120sec delay during shutdown or reboot with still mounted cifs (via Wifi)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<seb128> willcooke, that's for foundations I would say
<seb128> via the systemd side
<didrocks> thanks for keeping an eye on old bug seb128 when comments shed some lights on them! :)
<willcooke> could be a network manager bug as well though?  Or feature really.
<willcooke> let's see if foundations can fix via systemd
<seb128> didrocks, yw!
<willcooke> there's seemingly a workaround for that one too
<willcooke> moving on
<didrocks> I don't think the nework-manager "all users are/aren't allowed to touch wifi" should impact the shutdown time, so systemd for me
<GunnarHj> Hi seb128! I understand that you are busy with bug triaging. Just a reminder that we need your advice at bug #1760435. Unity translation is a mess.
<ubot5> bug 1760435 in indicator-datetime (Ubuntu) "Use Ubuntu language packs for various indicators" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1760435
<willcooke> next: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ibus/+bug/1760308
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1760308 in ibus (Ubuntu) "Unicode input not working on Bionic with CTRL-SHIFT-U" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<seb128> GunnarHj, we are in the meeting, but yeah, I started typing on that report
<willcooke> GunnarHj, that bug I posted ^ is one from you.  You need some help working out what's going on?  You think it's a release blocker?
<seb128> willcooke, I think it's a well known/standard way to input utf chars
<seb128> and without it working people might not be able to type things they need (like password)
<jbicha> we should check if it only affects GNOME Shell
<Laney> âworks for me
<GunnarHj> willcooke: I have no idea what's causing it, but I consider it important for those affected.
<seb128> I think I would +1 targetting it
<willcooke> who can help on that one?
<GunnarHj> Would be good if someone could check if it works on Fedora.
<GunnarHj> with 3.28
<seb128> that wouldn't help us much
<seb128> still need to figure out the issue
<seb128> willcooke, I guess I can have a look and assign back to someone else if needed
<willcooke> thanks a lot seb128
<willcooke> looking at the others....
<willcooke> looks ok
<willcooke> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting 2018-04-03 | Current topic: AOB
<willcooke> Anyone got anything else?
<willcooke> going once
<didrocks> shouldn't bug #1718254 be reviewed as well ? (dx-packages and unknown section)
<ubot5> bug 1718254 in unity-greeter-session-broadcast (Ubuntu) "please drop url-dispatcher dependencies" [Critical,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1718254
 * didrocks wonders why the importance is set to critical
<Laney> there are some bugs on http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-tracking-bug-tasks.html that have nobody assigned
<k_alam> GunnarHj: Can explain it bit more why wouldn't it work X-Ubuntu-Use-Langpack: yes if template is working?
<willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1758035
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1758035 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu Bionic) "[regression] gnome-shell crashed with SIGTRAP in g_realloc_n() from g_log_structured()" [High,Confirmed]
<willcooke> looks like duflu is looking at that one
<willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/+bug/1631750
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1631750 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu Bionic) "Language installation doesn't work in Ubuntu GNOME 16.10 Settings app" [High,Triaged]
<willcooke> jbicha, are you looking at that one? ^
<jbicha> willcooke: no, that's a very complex feature request, won't happen for 18.04 really
<willcooke> should we untarget it?
<didrocks> that's the one we workarounded last cycle with the additional button, correct?
<jbicha> didrocks: yes
<didrocks> imho, it's too large at this stage of the cycle and shouldn't be consider, plus, we have an (ugly) workaround, but tested at least
<jbicha> at least complex enough it's not been fixed in a year and a half
<didrocks> yeah, it should be planned as a card from the start of the cycle IMHO
<didrocks> as a feature
<Laney> it already has a card
<didrocks> :)
<willcooke> So should I just click the delete icon for Bionic?
<willcooke> Need to hurry up as I have another meeting
<didrocks> +1
<willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/session-migration/+bug/1735929
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1735929 in gnome-session (Ubuntu Bionic) "security problems with incorrect permissions for ubuntu 17.10" [High,Triaged]
<jbicha> willcooke: yes
<willcooke> looks like seb128 and didrocks are on the case
<jbicha> (I reclosed the Deja Dup gigacage bug)
<willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1751252
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1751252 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Bionic) "ubiquity crashed with signal 5 in _XEventsQueued()" [High,Triaged]
<willcooke> waiting for Steve to comment
<didrocks> pending slangasek to answer apparently
<seb128> willcooke, that's one for foundations I would say
<didrocks> he might need a ping
<willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/lightdm/+bug/1735415
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1735415 in lightdm (Ubuntu Bionic) "VNC client does not exits after logout" [Undecided,New]
<willcooke> Looks like Robert is looking at it
<willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mesa/+bug/1749472
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1749472 in mesa (Ubuntu Bionic) "mesa 18.0.0 will cause rendering errors in Qt applications" [Undecided,New]
<willcooke> looks like tsimonq2 is looking at that one and has a fix ^
<willcooke> and then: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/snapd-glib/+bug/1760795
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1760795 in snapd-glib (Ubuntu Bionic) "gnome-software leaks file descriptors" [High,In progress]
<willcooke> which we know about
<didrocks> yep
<seb128> right
<willcooke> I think that's all of that list
<willcooke> oh
<willcooke> good timing
<willcooke> #topic kenvandine
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting 2018-04-03 | Current topic: kenvandine
<kenvandine> :)
<kenvandine> * Attempted to reproduce bug #1750995, which was live session taking several minutes to logout.  I can no longer reproduce the issue with the daily live image from 03/27/2018. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-session/+bug/1750995
<kenvandine> * Fixed gnome-control-center spawning mulitple instances of system-config-printers (LP: #1755514)
<kenvandine> * Debugged and fixed issues with xrdp and Hyper-V logging in with the proper Ubuntu session https://github.com/jterry75/xrdp-init/pull/21
<kenvandine> * More progress on XDG User Dirs handling, I've gotten support for reading the user's user-dirs.dirs which fixes the translated directories issues but still working on migrating data in existing dirs.  https://github.com/ubuntu/snapcraft-desktop-helpers/pull/103
<Laney> some of those need a bit of cleaning up
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1750995 in gnome-session (Ubuntu Bionic) "Logging out live session takes several minutes" [High,Invalid]
<ubot5-ng> jterry75 bug (Pull request) 21 in xrdp-init "Use the Ubuntu session for 18.04 " (comments: 1) [Closed]
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1755514 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu Bionic) "Clicking the "Additional Printer Settingsâ¦" button launches system-config-printer multiple times" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1755514
<ubot5-ng> ubuntu bug (Pull request) 103 in snapcraft-desktop-helpers "If the user-dirs.* exists in the $REALHOME, link them into the snap's XDG_CONFIG_HOME." (comments: 3) [Open]
<Laney> oops
<kenvandine> â¾
<willcooke> kenvandine, there are a couple of actions up there for you ^^ and could you poke jamesh about meeting updates again please :)
<kenvandine> willcooke, sure :)
<willcooke> Laney, do you want chair while I go to a meeting, and then you can close the meeting later
<willcooke> or shall we just close now and carry on?
<Laney> it's ok
<Laney> Just we went through them a bit fast without closing tasks or assigning people
<Laney> means we probably look at the same bugs again next week :P
<Laney> so I tried to do that
<Laney> no need to keep the meeting
<willcooke> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Apr  3 14:30:45 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2018/ubuntu-desktop.2018-04-03-13.31.moin.txt
<didrocks> thx
<seb128> kenvandine, willcooke, we rushed a bit through end of meeting and AOB, but would be nice to land ubuntu-welcome this week/for beta, what's the status?
<kenvandine> seb128, i'll find out, in a meeting right now
<Laney> missed https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm3/+bug/1706939 too
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1706939 in gdm3 (Ubuntu Bionic) "A live session can't be shut down due to "[ *** ] (2 of 2) A start job is running for ... (21s / no limit)"" [High,Confirmed]
<seb128> kenvandine, thx
<seb128> Laney, right
<seb128> jibel, tkamppeter, Laney, those s-c-p report were from lxde session it seems so I guess lubuntu just added a depends to gir1.2-secret-1 or something
<Laney> fair enough
<Laney> if the depends is missing it's a clear fix
<jbicha> seb128: tkamppeter: s-c-p-common already recommends gir1.2-secret-1 but Lubuntu doesn't install Recommends :( (it apparently needs bumped to a Depends anyway)
<seb128> right
<seb128> GunnarHj, I commented on the indicators bug
<GunnarHj> seb128: thx
<jbicha> seb128: was there anything more to discuss with LP: #1754422 ?
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1754422 in volume-key (Ubuntu) "[MIR] volume-key" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1754422
<seb128> jbicha, I don't think so, I was just pointing out that saying that the security team gave a +1 was somewhat misleading
<jbicha> ok
<seb128> I didn't look if it would be easy to revert to the old way of handling encrypted devices
<jbicha> you mean revert to artful's udisks2, right?
<seb128> would be nice if upstream has such reviews when they consider adopting new depends
<seb128> well, either revert commits for that specific feature
<seb128> or version
<jbicha> my understanding is that the problem is they switched to libblockdev
<GunnarHj> seb128: The bionic templates indicator-* seem to be back. See for instance:
<GunnarHj> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-sound/+translations
<GunnarHj> Do you have any idea what's going on?
<Trevinho> willcooke, seb128: sorry I sent the status update first than you sent the the email so I didn't add milestone bugs, but well theme and g-s fix are in the radar or allmost done. Nautilus needs some more study
<Laney> yeah do-release-upgrade -d totally just worked
 * Laney doesn't see this gnome-menus bug
<willcooke> thanks Trevinho
<GunnarHj> seb128: Saw your latest bug comment. Ok.
<GunnarHj> seb128: Somebody may have thought that they shouldn't have so high priority any longer, which I can understand, but then they should have lowered the priority and not deactivated, right?
<seb128> GunnarHj, yeah, I don't know who desactivated them and why, and we don't have an activity log for those changes
<seb128> willcooke, Laney, kenvandine, sorry, I had my days shifted with the monday off and only saw the reminder for that meeting 10 min after it started :/
<kenvandine> seb128, no worries!
<seb128> kenvandine, you are off in the next days?
<kenvandine> yeah, rest of the week
<seb128> k, I guess somebody else needs to catch Robert about uploading the wizard then
<seb128> kenvandine, enjoy the days off!
<jbicha> did we decide whether we were going to take over the gnome-initial-setup package for that upload or do a separate source package?
<kenvandine> seb128, i emailed robert and included willcooke on it to cover for me while I'm out
<kenvandine> jbicha, i think a new package
<seb128> thanks
<kenvandine> willcooke, just saw the xdg-desktop-portals PR for snap support was merged today!
 * kenvandine does a little dance
<willcooke> \m/
<willcooke> thanks Alex
<Laney> thalex
<Laney> night!
 * Laney goes to check if the pond got filled up during the monsoon
<willcooke> see ya Laney
<didrocks> bye bye Laney
<willcooke> night all
<jbicha> kenvandine: I installed the Solus Steam snap following the instructions at https://github.com/solus-project/linux-steam-integration
<jbicha> it seems to work (except I can't figure out hidpi). I'm not really a gamer though :)
<jbicha> I opened LP: #1759715 because the steam package we inherited from Debian has some issues
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1759715 in steam (Ubuntu) "Remove steam and add to sync blacklist" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1759715
<kenvandine> jbicha, that's great, actually i think his issues were more about using his solus base snap
<kenvandine> jbicha, oh, and --devmode
<kenvandine> so not confined yet
<jbicha> yeah, it's not actually available for install in GNOME Software yet
<oSoMoN> good night all
<tsimonq2> Laney: That mesa bug was fixed months ago and nobody closed the bug.
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-04-04
<jbicha> robert_ancell: hi, in case you didn't hear, I guess they want you to upload your ubuntu-welcome app soon :)
<duflu> jbicha, thanks for the suspend-on-power fix BTW
<jbicha> duflu: maybe we'll bring it back next year :)
<duflu> jbicha, if it's configurable, sure. :)
<duflu> AFAIK it's not yet user-configurable for the login screen
<jbicha> right
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<jibel> Salut oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> salut jibel
<didrocks> good morning
<oSoMoN> bonjour didrocks
<didrocks> salut oSoMoN
<seb128> salut didrocks oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> salut seb128
<jibel> Bonjour didrocks seb128 and all
<seb128> lut jibel
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<didrocks> salut seb128, jibel !
<seb128> andyrock, hey
<seb128> andyrock, I'm backporting your udisks segfault fix to bionic, just as a fyi
<andyrock> hey hey
<andyrock> thx!
<duflu> Morning oSoMoN, jibel, didrocks, seb128, andyrock
<seb128> hey duflu
<didrocks> hey duflu!
<willcooke> morning
<duflu> Morning willcooke
<willcooke> duflu, koza - are you doing the BT meeting today?
<duflu> The BT meeting moved again. Depends if koza wants it
<duflu> Or seb
<willcooke> Lovely timezones
<willcooke> Seb is out this morning for a little while
<willcooke> I have nothing
<duflu> Alright. In that case I am putting the camera away. FYI willcooke, koza
<duflu> & jibel ^
<willcooke> duflu, ack.
 * willcooke looks like crap anyway
<Laney> moin
<duflu> Morning Laney
<willcooke> The kids have given me some illness
<willcooke> hi Laney
<duflu> Well, their immune systems get a good education
<duflu> at least
<didrocks> hey willcooke, Laney
<didrocks> willcooke: I guess we can make a club of "be sick, thanks to the kids" this week :)
<willcooke> :DD
<didrocks> at least, you know how to do it, being sick during work days
<didrocks> for me, that was during extended week-end
<didrocks> less attractive :p
 * didrocks needs to plan better next time
<willcooke> urg, that's the worst
<willcooke> actually, being sick on holiday is the worst
<didrocks> I guess I had my share of that since December. I should ask for reimbursement to "life"! :)
<Laney> /o\
<seb128> back
<willcooke> morning seb128
<seb128> hey willcooke, how are you today?
<willcooke> got a bit of a cold from the kids
<willcooke> One of thm was up a lot last night coughing
<willcooke> so tired as well
<willcooke> yay :)
<didrocks> wb seb128
<seb128> thx
<seb128> willcooke, welcome to the club!
<willcooke> ha
<ali1234> i think there is a problem with the fontconfig cache on the live images
<willcooke> Hi ali1234, is that a new problem?  In the last few days?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> it's been around for a long time
<ali1234> it just took a long time to track it down
<willcooke> How is it manifesting itself?
<ali1234> basically, the files in /var/cache/fontconfig are not accepted, so the font cache gets rebuilt in ~/.cache/fontconfig for every installed font
<willcooke> ah.  jibel - that could be a candidate for slow start up?
<ali1234> this takes like a minute or more and delays getting to the live desktop or installer
<ali1234> right, it's the slow startup
<seb128> good finding if that's the issue!
<willcooke> looks like we owe you some beers ali1234
<ali1234> if you update a font package it rebuilds the font cache and then the problem goes away
<seb128> so it's only the cache included on the iso?
<ali1234> yes
<seb128> do you know what it doesn't like about it?
<ali1234> a little bit
<ali1234> at xubuntu, we thought the problem was caused by bluez and we have a bug tracking that
<seb128> that would be weird
<ali1234> last night i figured out bluez was a red herring: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bluez/+bug/1754836
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1754836 in bluez (Ubuntu) "Xubuntu: ERROR:dbus.proxies:Introspect error on org.bluez:/org/bluez: dbus.exceptions.DBusException: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.TimedOut: Failed to activate service 'org.bluez': timed out (service_start_timeout=25000ms)" [Critical,Confirmed]
<ali1234> see my comments at the bottom of that
<ali1234> i dont know whether to change that bug or make a new one, if a new one i don't know what to open it against :)
<ali1234> all the info is there though
<ali1234> one interesting thing is that ubuntu seems to rebuild the font cache during the installer so it is only affected in the live image. however, xubuntu does not so it happens again on the user's first login to the installed system
<jibel> willcooke, could be but the bootchart should have shown IO generated by the creation of the cache.
<willcooke> jibel, sounds like it could well be a culprit, so interesting that the boot chart doesnt show it.
<jibel> unless it stops too early
<willcooke> oh, yeah
<ali1234> it definitely gets rebuilt - just check ~/.cache/fontconfig. it should be empty except for maybe 1 file for the firefox emoji font
<didrocks> /var/lib/dpkg/info/fontconfig.postinst looks correct at first look
<didrocks> in the "trigger" case
<seb128> well there are caches in the system location
<seb128> but they are invalid
<didrocks> we should look for "fc-cache failed" in iso build logs
<seb128> where is the iso build log? ;)
<didrocks> in case the invalid caches are from a fc-cache error
<didrocks> this is why I didn't put a link, I don't know :p
<seb128> Laney, ^ help? :)
<seb128> or maybe jibel knows
<ali1234> if anyone knows the structure of the cache files, i did a binary diff between working/non-working
<ali1234> details on the bug
<didrocks> the best case would be fc-cache generating that errors with the logs in /var/log/fontconfig.log
<seb128> it's over my understand of fontconfig details
<didrocks> if it only generates invalid caches and don't error outâ¦ urgh, harder to understand
<jibel> seb128, https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/cd-build-logs/ubuntu/bionic
<seb128> jibel, thx
<jibel> then look at the build id in the first lines of the log
<jibel> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cdimage/+livefs/ubuntu/bionic/ubuntu/+build/128542 in this case
<didrocks> no fc-cache error line :/
<seb128> nothing useful in that log
<seb128> Setting up fontconfig (2.12.6-0ubuntu1) ...
<seb128> Regenerating fonts cache... done.
<didrocks> so the trigger happily passed
<seb128> Processing triggers for fontconfig (2.12.6-0ubuntu1) ...
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> well not a surprise if a cache file is generated
<didrocks> and nothing belowâ¦
<didrocks> yeah
<jibel> Setting up fontconfig (2.12.6-0ubuntu1) ...
<jibel> Regenerating fonts cache... done.
<jibel> yeah :)
<didrocks> /var/log/fontconfig.log ?
<didrocks> is that purged from the iso? (I don't have one handy
<didrocks> )
<didrocks> in case that can help
<didrocks> as we run fc-cache in verbose mode and redirect to itâ¦
<jibel> didrocks, i'll have a look i'm testing beta2
 * didrocks crosses fingers log will help
<willcooke> Debian are fingering Noto as the problem, is that right?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> Noto is really slow to generate because it is huge
<ali1234> but the issue is it shouldn't be getting generated because the cache is supposed to already be there
<willcooke> ahhhh
<ali1234> https://cgit.freedesktop.org/fontconfig/tree/src/fccache.c#n996 is the list of reasns why fontconfig will reject a cache file
<ali1234> the ifdef jumps out at me as something which could be represented by that mystery field
<jibel> hm, latest iso doesn't boot if I go directly to the live session from syslinux
<Laney> seb128: I got as far as noticing gsd-xsettings is slow when doing some fontconfig thing, this sounds further along than I got
<Laney> or what did you want my help with?
<seb128> Laney, getting the url of the iso build log, but jibel had it
<Laney> ok
<Laney> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cdimage/+livefs/ubuntu/bionic/ubuntu/ this is a good index
<seb128> thx
<jibel> didrocks, http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/7YxNf7MsvY/ and it says existing cache is valid
<seb128> it might be worth sending an email to the upstream fontconfig list with the cache bin diff
<seb128> they might be helpful
<seb128> ali1234, would you like to do that?
<didrocks> jibel: :/
<jibel> ali1234, do you know which job trigger fc-cache on log in?
<jibel> one day I'll dd an iso to my hard drive :/
<Laney> The GLib update doesn't look that interesting
<jibel> interesting finding
<Laney> gtk+3.0, probably is ok
<LocutusOfBorg> seb128, not major update, minor debian revision
<LocutusOfBorg> Laney, if you want, just ack and I'll upload in a ppa
<seb128_> right, the glib change seems a bit late in the cycle
<LocutusOfBorg> I don't want to mess up with your iso generations or similar
<didrocks> seb128_: good catch!
<jibel> seb128_, do you know what triggers fc-cache on log in?
<seb128_> no
<jibel> I cannot find anything
<seb128_> likely fontconfig which when being used validates the cache
<seb128_> so apps themself
<Laney> it breaks stuff too https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=894763
<ubot5`> Debian bug 894763 in libglib2.0-0 "libglib2.0-0: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf/libgobject-2.0.so.0: undefined symbol: g_date_copy" [Grave,Open]
<Laney> jibel: gsd-xsettings does something with fontconfig
<Laney> and that is part of the startup
<Laney> LocutusOfBorg: you can upload to the queue, it'll probably get accepted after the beta
<seb128_> bbiab, need to change location
<Laney> and please make sure to do your changes in bzr too if you don't mind
<Laney> might want to check if jbicha_ hasn't started this work too, would be annoying to duplicate
<LocutusOfBorg> ok nice
<LocutusOfBorg> I think he is *happy* to stop merging it :)
<Laney> ok, if you know that based on some evidence
<LocutusOfBorg> last time he asked me to do the merge :)
<LocutusOfBorg> I did a gtk2 and he asked me to also merge gtk3
<LocutusOfBorg> and after that also glib2 :)
<Laney> he asked you to merge this glib upload?
<LocutusOfBorg> nope
<LocutusOfBorg> I'm talking about previous uploads
<Laney> ok
<LocutusOfBorg> done gtk3 in queue
 * duflu closes eyes and logs off before finding any more mutter issues
<seb128> k, back at my desk/online
<seb128> didrocks, ali1234, sorry, had to drop from IRC for a bit, was there anything else said on the topic meanwhile?
<ali1234> i read that bug report. seems to exactly describe what i am seeing
<seb128> yeah, what I though as well from your binary diff/explanations
<didrocks> seb128: nothing more, no
<seb128> ali1234, do you want to provide some details on that upstream report or should I?
<Laney> jibel attached the log that was asked for
<ali1234> ah FC_DEBUG=16... i think i tried every other possible number :)
<seb128> ah, nice
<ali1234> ah i think i understand this now from that log - "cache checksum 1522818676.601423551 dir checksum 1522818676.0"
<ali1234> so it is actually the font directory that has had the timestamp changed by going through squashfs
<ali1234> and that's why the mystery field changes to zero
<seb128> right
<seb128> didrocks, do you want that as a launchpad bug report or just IRC ping?
<seb128> $ dpkg-deb -c libsysmetrics-dev_1.0.3_i386.deb | grep pc
<seb128> -rw-r--r-- root/root       258 2018-04-03 09:51 ./usr/lib/i686-linux-gnu/pkgconfig/sysmetrics.pc
<seb128> didrocks, the arch triplet is i386-linux-gnu no i686
<seb128> it makes ubuntu-welcome fail to build on i386 since it doesn't find the .pc
<Laney> that looks like DEB_HOST_GNU_TYPE or something was used instead of DEB_HOST_MULTARCH
<didrocks> seb128: let me just fix it, no need for paperwork
<didrocks> yes
<didrocks> fixing right away
<seb128> didrocks, thx
<Laney> with right spelling of multiarch
<seb128> :)
<didrocks> nw! thanks for pointing it!
<didrocks> Laney: :)
<didrocks> seb128: fixed, built, tested and uploaded. You can take and build latest from github if you want to take that one instead of copying on your system :)
<seb128> didrocks, thx, the build is from a ppa so I'm just going to wait for it to be in the archive and retry
<seb128> my bionic system is amd64 :p
<didrocks> argh, I needed to keep one GNU style for build dir due to dh_golangâ¦
<didrocks> oh, true, you reinstalled :)
<Laney> seb's specialist dual boot system
<seb128> :)
<didrocks> ok, the ppa ran worked this time (to avoid an useless upload), pushing
<seb128> didrocks, :)
<seb128> didrocks, thanks for fixing!
<didrocks> so yeah, I used the GNU type due to dh_golang and didn't think about build dir being different than install dir (don't understand exactly why)
<didrocks> yw!
<didrocks> the 2 tools, being debian specific, should use the same triplet format IMHO
<seb128> yeah, I don't know either
<didrocks> Travis is having large roundtrip anyway to start a build, so I was able to slip that in between 2 builds :)
<willcooke> Is there a good LP bug for the fontconfig issue?  I'd like to tag it rls-bb-incoming at least.  I can open a new one based on the upstream one if needed
<ali1234> i don't know of any others
<seb128> ali1234, the bluez one was about bluez or really about the slow boot/fontconfig?
<seb128> in which case we just need to rename it
<didrocks> seems the timeout on bluez is due to slow boot
<seb128> willcooke, we had one about slow boot on our side already which we can maybe use?
<ali1234> i opened it when we thought the slow boot was caused by bluez
<ali1234> there is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/casper/+bug/1749546
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1749546 in casper (Ubuntu) "Booting a live session is slow " [Undecided,New]
<seb128> reusing that seems fine to me
<willcooke> ah nice, let's reuse that one
<willcooke> ta
<seb128> willcooke, thx
<willcooke> I'll update etc
<didrocks> it's great to have at least an idea where this may be coming from :)
<jibel> willcooke, I'll reassign to fontconfig
<willcooke> jibel, I'm doing that now
<Laney> I'm already assigned to it, it's fine
<Laney> but if you want ...
<willcooke> :)
<jibel> you can remove casper
<Laney> oh you probably don't mean #1750846
<jibel> no it's different
<Laney> is it though
<ali1234> i have a feeling that the fontconfig thing may cause a knock-on effect where other stuff times out
<ali1234> especially dbus - hence the bluez thing as well
<willcooke> +1
<ali1234> i have no evidence for this though
<willcooke> sounds plausible
<seb128> one easy way to figure out, fix the fontconfig issue and see if that resolves the other ones :)
<willcooke> :)
<willcooke> anyone want to own this one?
<willcooke> Would like to see if we can get it fixed for beta
<seb128> do you know where is the team mapping list?
<willcooke> try at least
<seb128> I wonder who owns fontconfig
<Laney> be calm
<Laney> I've been assigned to the bug I just referenced for some time, I'm working on it
<seb128> wfm, thanks Laney!
<Laney> I found out last night / this morning that gsd-xsettings was blocking the start up in fontconfig stuff
<willcooke> thanks Laney
<Laney> so ali1234 coming in with more analysis is good timing
<seb128> Laney, well it was just that if the issues turns out to be in fontconfig and that foundations own that then we might want to bounce to them at this point
<seb128> but your call at the end
<willcooke> j_bicha was the last one to touch it ;))
<Laney> as for who owns the package, look at the subscribers
<Laney> mapping is generated from that
<seb128> desktop-packages and foundations-bugs are subscribed
<seb128> so we both own it? :)
<Laney> seems so
<Laney> quick, press the unsubscribe button
<seb128> I was going to say :p
<didrocks> ahah, first one unsubribing wins :)
 * willcooke <- sandwich 
<seb128> willcooke, enjoy!
 * seb128 just had some takeway pasta, that was good
<Laney> can't think of a better way to fix that fontconfig thing than ignoring the nanoseconds if it's 0
<Laney> ali1234: got any ideas?
<Laney> I tried a patch to do that, which works
<Laney> boot speed still isn't exactly amazing though
<Laney> ubuntu@ubuntu:~$ systemd-analyze
<Laney> Startup finished in 24.412s (kernel) + 1min 23.971s (userspace) = 1min 48.384s
<Laney> graphical.target reached after 28.680s in userspace
<Laney> however it does fix the gsd problems
<Laney> hmm that second try was way better, weird
<Laney> ubuntu@ubuntu:~$ systemd-analyze
<Laney> Startup finished in 12.572s (kernel) + 23.512s (userspace) = 36.084s
<Laney> graphical.target reached after 23.473s in userspace
<oSoMoN> willcooke, seb128: libreoffice 6.0.3 will be out this week (currently in RC2, for which we have a snap in the candidate channel btw), and we have 6.0.2 in bionic today. How do you feel about pushing the update (supposedly bug fixes only, I will double-check that)? Or better to SRU after release?
<willcooke> hum
<willcooke> I dont suppose we've really given .2 a proper shakedown since not that many people are using it.
<willcooke> So shipping .3 isn't a massive problem
<willcooke> What do we do with, say, Firefox in this situation chrisccoulson?  ^
<seb128> oSoMoN, I would push it to bionic, we can keep it in proposed for a while and decide to turn it into a SRU from there if we prefer
<jbicha> we're still ~3 weeks from release, we still do bug fix updates :)
<chrisccoulson> willcooke, I normally just upload it and somebody approves it - it's usually already in the security pocket for other releases by the time I do that though
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey again, did you see my questions about those translations earlier? ;)
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah. The answer is yes
<seb128> jbicha, btw bug #1759538 has been ack-ed so you can make g-s recommends it with the next upload
<ubot5`> bug 1759538 in bolt (Ubuntu) "[ffe] Install bolt by default for thunderbolt devices support" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1759538
<seb128> chrisccoulson, thx
<oSoMoN> good, so I'll double-check the upstream changelog and diff to make sure they didn't sneak new features in, and will coordinate with ricotz to prepare a 6.0.3 upload
<seb128> thx, let me know if/when you need sponsoring
<oSoMoN> that'll most likely be early next week
<seb128> k
<Laney> looks like ipv6 came back, brb!
<Laney> feels modern
<seb128> is there a way to make softwares not removable in gnome-software?
<seb128> bug #1756788 seems annoying
<ubot5`> bug 1756788 in gnome-session (Ubuntu) "Removing "Startup Applications" in "Ubuntu Software" makes the system unable to launch GDM" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1756788
<seb128> I guess it removes gnome-session, DOH
<Laney> yes, you can make it compulsory-for-desktop or whatever the thing is
<seb128> k, thx
 * ricotz wonders what openjdk-11 packages versioned as 10~46-4ubuntu1 are about
<ricotz> hey desktopers
<seb128> hey ricotz
<Laney> moin ricotz
<Laney> don't think the desktop team particularly knows about java, better to ask the uploader?
<seb128> +1
<ricotz> seb128, Laney, hi
<ricotz> I guess the uploader already removed the source packages from the archive again
<ricotz> so hard to tell where it came from, I assume d_oko did
<Laney> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openjdk-lts/10~46-4ubuntu1
<seb128> jbicha, thx :)
<ricotz> Laney, oohh
<ali1234> Laney: i don't know, but can't you fix the squashfs, rather than patching fontconfig?
<ricotz> Laney, aptitude failed to show me the changelog
<Laney> ali1234: how?
<ali1234> well the most obvious way would be to build it on a filesystem that doesn't have nanos, so that the cache remains valid after being copied through squashfs
<ali1234> manually stripping the nanos from /usr/share/fonts (recursive) before generating the cache would also work
<ricotz> chrisccoulson, hi, are you going to upload tb 52.7.3?
<ali1234> i suppose that would mess with the deb file timestamps
<ricotz> chrisccoulson, ah sorry, I thought they tagged it
<Laney> not sure LP people would be happy with that, and I'd rather a more generic solution anyway
<Laney> so either make fontconfig tolerate this situation or change squashfs
<ali1234> the way i see it, the timestamps are going to be truncated at some point. so you'd just be making it happen earlier
<ali1234> it wouldn't change the effective timestamp on any files managed by packages
<ali1234> but i have no idea how the image builders work
<jbicha> ricotz: did you want to try adding/moving the Thunderbird app icons LP: #1682455 ?
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1682455 in thunderbird (Ubuntu) "thunderbird not available in GNOME Software" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1682455
<ricotz> jbicha, tweaking the stable packages is more a thing for chris
<ricotz> jbicha, did you find a way to confirm that this works properly with the ff60 betas?
<jbicha> ask Lan_ey but I don't think appstream data from PPAs is usable in the GNOME Software app yet
<jbicha> so the only way I know to know for sure is to upload to bionic and see
<ricotz> jbicha, I could take a look if chris would push his packaging changes
<ricotz> should be similar to the firefox-esr changes I made
<jbicha> thanks
<ricotz> jbicha, e.g. https://paste.debian.net/plain/1018499
<jbicha> ricotz: maybe you could talk Mozilla into providing an ESR snap so you don't have to maintain that PPA :)
<ricotz> jbicha, I am not sure that people wanting firefox-esr are using snaps
<jbicha> it might not be a bad choice compared to a PPA
<jbicha> I'm just guessing, but I think we'll be hesitant to allow firefox-esr in to the Ubuntu archives
 * Laney waves from the train
<Laney> new 4g wifi thing works well!
<xnox> Laney, cool! =)
 * Laney high fives xnox 
<Laney> I should probably turn some things off so I don't burn through all the data tho
 * Laney ticks "restrict background data usage"
<xnox> Laney, i wonder if unattended-upgrades respects the "restrict background data usage" is that an Gnome-shell thing, or a Network Manager thing?
<Laney> xnox: It sets metered on the dbus interface I think, and GNetworkMonitor exposes that (g_network_monitor_get_network_metered())
<Laney> so it probably doesn't unless it uses one of those APIs
<xnox> Laney, session or system bus?
<Laney> NM is on the system bus
<Laney> do something like busctl --system introspect org.freedesktop.NetworkManager /org/freedesktop/NetworkManager
<Laney> although for me that is currently 4 which is apparently GUESS_NO
<Laney> ok now it's 1 after reconneccting
<Laney> xnox: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/KBH6G3ZBGf/
<Laney> I think android and ios have a thing to set that automatically on tethering btw
<Laney> goodnight from newark northgate
<willcooke> night all
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-04-05
<jibel> Good morning
<duflu> Morning jibel
<jibel> Hi duflu
<didrocks> good morning
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<duflu> Hi didrocks, seb128
<seb128> hey duflu, how are you?
<duflu> seb128, dazed and confused. That massive memory leak I was working on is gone. So now switching tasks
<duflu> You?
<didrocks> hey duflu, re seb128
 * duflu wanders off for a little
<seb128> duflu, some update resolved it?
<duflu> seb128, no I can't see any updates
<seb128> weird :/
<duflu> I am seeing "smaller" leaks of 0.5-1MB but those are much smaller than my original focus
<duflu> And then sncf emails me to try and sell Summer holidays in France. Sounds good
<Nafallo> morning
<duflu> Morning Nafallo
<Nafallo> would it be a bug if gnome-initial-setup show the installed app in the suggested apps as well?
<seb128> Nafallo, I don't know, that's a question for robert_ancell
<Nafallo> user experience? *shrugs*
<robert_ancell> Nafallo, that was raised but I'm not sure what the conclusion was.
<Nafallo> I just found it odd :-)
<robert_ancell> I'll let design decide - note of course you tend to only see this after an install, so you're not likely to see any overlaps.
<Nafallo> unless I pre-seed stuff ;-)
<robert_ancell> indeed :)
<Nafallo> other than that it looks good. couldn't test the livepatch stuff, since I've already used up my member entitlements :-)
<Nafallo> hehe. metrics.ubuntu.com doesn't exist yet :-)
<didrocks> yep
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<didrocks> salut oSoMoN
<seb128> lut oSoMoN, en forme ?
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks, seb128
<oSoMoN> daughter was sick so that was a tough night, but it's over :)
<oSoMoN> how are you guys?
<seb128> I'm a bit sick but otherwise good
<didrocks> getting in better shape little by little :)
<duflu> Hi oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> hey duflu
<Laney> hey
<oSoMoN> hey Laney
<didrocks> good morning Laney
<seb128> good morning u.k
<seb128> hey willcooke Laney
<Laney> hey oSoMoN didrocks seb128
<Laney> what's new?
<seb128> it's cold & windy, not supposed to be like this in april!
<Laney> sun here!
<Nafallo> weekend should be alright here. between 2-10Â°.
<Nafallo> camping weather :-)
<willcooke> morning.
<didrocks> hey hey willcooke
<willcooke> blurgh
<oSoMoN> hey willcooke
<Nafallo> hey willcooke :-)
<duflu> Morning willcooke
<duflu> and morning Laney
<jibel> willcooke, I'm all done with the review of beta 2. 2 majors issues: 1. Cannot upgrade from ubiquity 2. No screen reader support
<jibel> major*
<sil2100> jibel: \o/ I guess 2. isn't a blocker for final beta as well?
<jibel> sil2100, none of them are
<sil2100> Yeah, I knew 1. wasn't, just making sure about 2.
<willcooke> thanks a lot jibel, good work
<willcooke> jibel, screenread from the installer?
<jibel> willcooke, yes, the shortcut to activate it doesn't work and there is no indicator either in the panel
<jibel> bug 1741690
<ubot5`> bug 1741690 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "You can't enable the Orca screen reader until after you click "Try Ubuntu" on Ubuntu bionic" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1741690
<jibel> Laney, re fontconfig, would it work to touch the font files when building the filesystem to remove the nanoseconds then re-run fc-cache?
<jibel> instead of modifying fontconfig
<jibel> and it'd work on all the flavors
<Laney> jibel: I'm pretty sure my fix fixes that case too, as it ignores nsec == 0 - so if the argument is that things end up with nsec = 0 on the target then a regen won't be triggered.
<Laney> Not sure why an LP specific fix is better?
<Laney> Also I don't know offhand how to do that ...
 * Laney downloads a xubuntu iso
<Laney> not that I can get on cdimage for some reason
<Laney> just having some drama with a leaning fence
<seb128> jibel, would be interesting to try the screenreader with the fontconfig fix
<didrocks> seb128: it was happening in 17.10 from what we got told, so few chancesâ¦
<seb128> weird, I though we fixed it in N-Y
<didrocks> maybe the bug was simply not closed?
<seb128> could be, but it's buggy for sure now in bionic
<didrocks> but IIRC I asked the reporter to try a 17.10 iso and he confirmed it didn't work
<seb128> I'm going to wait for that fontconfig fix in any case
<didrocks> yeah
<jibel> seb128, yes, I suppose the shortcut don't work because gsd services are timeout, like the terminal shortcut for example
<seb128> right
<jibel> sil2100, there is something else, there is no maybe-ubiquity mode
<jibel> could someone with a bios machine boot latest bionic iso and tell if they see the try/install screen?
<jibel> I just have an uefi machine and in a VM it always shows me the syslinux menu
<seb128> I do under virtualbox
<seb128> I can try in a bit
<jibel> seb128, the boot menu is not displayed in vbox and it boots to ubiquity-dm?
<seb128> I get the menu but that iso might be some days old
<seb128> is that a recent issue?
<jibel> idk, I rarely boot without pressing a key
<seb128> jibel, dunno if the comment from Steve on https://code.launchpad.net/~vorlon/ubiquity/getties-and-ubiquity-dm/+merge/342716 has to do with your issue
<seb128> or if he was trying to debug that
<didrocks> sounds the second to me
<seb128> right, I was not suggesting the code change there has to do the issue
<seb128> rather I wonder if his " OTOH it doesn't look like the current Ubuntu ISO does maybe-ubiquity on its own" is stating the same problem
<jibel> probably an issue with libvirt. With an older version it boots to ubiquity-dm and does not display syslinux
<cpaelzer> jibel: what would you want to be different from libvirt in this case?
<jibel> cpaelzer, it's like the guest is receiving a keystroke on boot.
<jibel> which it should not
<jibel> cpaelzer, I'm upgrading the second machine to the same version of libvirt to check if it's the problem
<cpaelzer> odd
<cpaelzer> jibel: libvirt won't send keystrokes, maybe some defaults on the console changed which lead to this new behavior
<cpaelzer> jibel: once you spot what really happens let me know
<cpaelzer> libvirt does not interact with the guest console
<cpaelzer> it only does with the qemu monitor
<cpaelzer> jibel: is that on graphical boot (e.g. through virt-manager) or a pure console guest (e.g. virsh console)?
<jibel> cpaelzer, it's a graphical boot. I'll dig further and let you know if I find anything.
<cpaelzer> pfff - who wants graphic :-)
<cpaelzer> jibel: looking forward to hear from you
<flexiondotorg> jibel Home directory encryption is absent from 18.04. Intentional?
<jibel> flexiondotorg, yes, it's been removed.
<jibel> flexiondotorg, ubiquity 18.04.3
<jibel>   * Remove the encrypted userdir option from the gtk installer since
<jibel>     ecryptfs is going to move to universe. The keep the base code in case
<jibel>     the option is added back later using another technology.
<flexiondotorg> Hmmm, how are OEM installs going to offer data security without home encryption?
<flexiondotorg> willcooke: ^
<willcooke> people will need to manual setup whole disk encryption
<willcooke> manually
<willcooke> or move their home dir to another partition and enable ext4 encrpytion
<seb128> flexiondotorg, disk encryption
<flexiondotorg> Fine for individuals. But what about OEMs shipping computers with OME setup?
<Nafallo> SED drives? just throwing it out there.
<seb128> flexiondotorg, talk to the security team, we are not the ones who decided on that change
<willcooke> flexiondotorg, they can enable encryption after OEM setup is complete in the same way as anyone
<flexiondotorg> I don't follow.
<popey> FDE is a very early install step, not typically something done at the end.
<Nafallo> there's been some work trying to get cryptsetup to encrypt unencrypted installation. I haven't dared tried it yet.
<Nafallo> flexiondotorg: possibly encrypt it with a passphrase file on /boot or somewhere and then write software that asks the user for a password or two before removing the keyfile?
<Nafallo> anyway. sort of offtopic for this channel.
<flexiondotorg> If a vendor perform an OEM install to, ship on laptops sold to customers, and choose FDE the encryption key is known by them.
<Nafallo> hence why you remove the keyfile after setting the user password(s)
<willcooke> flexiondotorg, I'm not really up to speed with what the encryption options are.  Best to ask the security team
<flexiondotorg> OK
<jibel> cpaelzer, bug 1761497, not urgent
<ubot5`> bug 1761497 in virt-manager (Ubuntu) "syslinux menu is displayed when a desktop ISO is powered from virt-manager" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1761497
<jibel> it doesn't happen from the command line
<cpaelzer> jibel: TBH I'm not sure what to do on this :-/
<cpaelzer> do I read this correctly "not all the physical machines running the same version of libvirt and qemu exhibit this behaviour"
<cpaelzer> that even for you only "some" systems show this effect
<cpaelzer> even being on the same versions?
<jibel> cpaelzer, yes, it's weird. I uninstalled/reinstalled the vm stack and no change. The machines I tried have different graphics chipset
<cpaelzer> jibel: well the virtual graphic should not change
<cpaelzer> jibel: when you say "started with virsh start" does that mean with a pure text console?
<cpaelzer> like with "virsh start --console"
<jibel> it is not blocking anything, just annoying
<jibel> cpaelzer, yes, virsh start <domain>
<cpaelzer> jibel: but from commandline still gives you a graphical view?
<cpaelzer> ubiquity-dm was the nice graphical prompt right?
<jibel> cpaelzer, ubiquity-dm is the ubiquity dialog with a list of languages and the options try or install ubuntu. It's the first thing a user should see if he doesn't press key during boot
<jibel> cpaelzer, otherwise if you press a key on the aubergine screen with a small keyboard icon at the bottom it proposes several other options and it's in text mode.
<jibel> cpaelzer, that's what I get even without pressing any key
<jibel> but really don't spend time on this, I can use the command line
<jibel> willcooke, I'm going to mark ubuntu desktop ready to release. Any objection?
<willcooke> jibel, +1 thanks
<acheronuk> so ecryptfs-utils has dropped off all the isos, meaning the encrypt home folder checkbox for KDE front end can't work?
<seb128> acheronuk, right, if you want to keep providing that feature I guess you need to make -kde depends on it
<acheronuk> seb128: the bug says it's buggy. problematically so? if you know that is
<acheronuk> I don't want to add something back that is likely not supportable
<seb128> acheronuk, well, we removed the depends so up to you to remove the option as well or add back the depends
<acheronuk> I'll investigate. thanks
<seb128> yw
<GunnarHj> seb128: Mystery with deactivated templates resolved. Gabor hasn't replied yet, though.
<seb128> GunnarHj,hey, I saw that!
<GunnarHj> seb128: Do you have an idea off hand which packages in universe make use of the language packs?
<seb128> no
<GunnarHj> :(
<seb128> why?
<seb128> to know if there are enabled?
<GunnarHj> seb128: If their templates were deactivated, the translations will disappear for the users at next full langpack update.
<seb128> GunnarHj, then we can diff the langpacks, enable those back and do another langpack update
<seb128> or ask on #ubuntu-devel if somebody knows how to query for packages using that tag in their control
<GunnarHj> seb128: The latter sounds promising.
<jbicha> GunnarHj: too bad we don't have something like for Ubuntu: https://codesearch.debian.net/search?q=X-Ubuntu-Use-Langpack
<seb128> L_aney set up one a while ago but I guess that didn't get maintained
<GunnarHj> jbicha: Wow! One first thing to do is to check whether the templates for those packages are up and running.
<jbicha> GunnarHj: that list is very incomplete for what you want though
<jbicha> it won't have any of the Unity packages!
<seb128> jdstrand used to have a scrip that does grep through the archive, unsure if he still has it
<GunnarHj> jbicha: I know. But it's a starter. And we are dealing with Unity separately anyway.
<GunnarHj> jbicha, seb128: Could bring back template for evolution by help of that Debian search.
<jbicha> GunnarHj: ?
<jbicha> I thought evolution was already in the langpacks
<jbicha> that was our intent at least!
<GunnarHj> jbicha: It is. The problem is (was) that the template got deactivated by mistake.
<jbicha> I have been confused by the langpacks for years. Guess I'm still going to be confused :(
<GunnarHj> jbicha: For context on the present archive wide issue:
<GunnarHj> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-translators/2018-April/007474.html
<Laney> I seem to remember there being a text file or something
<GunnarHj> How do we dig deeper into Laney's memory? :)
<GunnarHj> seb128: Have they replaced <Ctrl>+<Shift>+U with <Ctrl>+<Shift>+E because that emoji thing, even if it's not compliant with the standard?
<seb128> GunnarHj, the details are in the bugs I pointed out
<seb128> but yeah basically
<GunnarHj> seb128: Sounds weird. I'll switch to bionic and test it to start with.
<seb128> GunnarHj, well it's not going to tell you much, don't bother, I'm handling it
<GunnarHj> seb128: Are you going to bring Ctrl+Shift+U back then?
<seb128> didrocks, go doesn't make small C libraries! libsysmetrics is almost as big as libgtk (5.7M vs 7.1M)
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, there is the Go runtime in it
<didrocks> (and the stdlib)
<seb128> k, makes sense
<didrocks> we can even embed the python runtime inside the Go runtime if you want more inception :p
<didrocks> (but then python is single-threaded due to their gold locker)
<Laney> tempted to upload my fontconfig proposed patch
<Laney> and replace / refine it with upstream comments if we get any
<Laney> any opinions?
<seb128> +1
<seb128> I think it's the pragmatic thing to do
<seb128> and we need that issue resolved to see if other problems go away like keybinding, screen reader, etc
<seb128> also having a not-so-slow iso boot might make other work easier
<seb128> the fix also seems to make sense, it's a bit hackish but it should do the job and I don't see a potential problem due to it
<Laney> ok then
<seb128> thx
<didrocks> yeah, sounds the best approach
<Laney> done DONE
<Laney> stupid sun revealed how dirty my screen is
<willcooke> night all
<Trevinho> hey Laney can you publish https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3227 please?
<Laney> Trevinho: I'm just off, can look tomorrow if nobody beats me
<Laney> see you!
<Trevinho> Laney: ah, ok no problem
<Trevinho> good night
<Trevinho> kenvandine[m][m]: maybe? ^
<jbicha> seb128: can we use https://salsa.debian.org/gnome-team/gnome-initial-setup for packaging since there never was a bzr branch for it?
<jbicha> oh, I mean I guess we should use the LP thing we did for gvfs
<jbicha> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/ubuntu/+source/gvfs/+git/gvfs
<jbicha> there is an outdated ubuntu/bionic branch in Debian I guess I can remove (outdated because I figured out how to sync our packaging earlier)
<jbicha> and that branch was there because it was allowed to use salsa for universe packages that didn't have LP packaging branches
<seb128> jbicha, if the people who work on it know the workflow and agree, I'm not going to contribute fixes via the vcs this cycle if you do that though
<jbicha> were you planning to submit fixes for gnome-initial-setup? ;)
<jbicha> we can sponsor fixes this month if you do :)
<seb128> well I did a few in the ppa already
<seb128> jbicha, I'm just going to dput changes I need don't worry, then somebody can sort out the vcs
<seb128> jbicha, check with robert_ancell that he's fine with that workflow though since he's the one doing the active work atm
<jbicha> yup, I was going to chat with him
<seb128> thx
<jbicha> but  time zones :)
<seb128> right, well he should be there in a few
<jbicha> but you won't be hopefully!
<seb128> :)
<seb128> don't worry I don't plan to join that discussion
<seb128> I already stated my position of disrupting workflow at this point of the cycle
<jbicha> robert_ancell: good morning. I tried out the ubuntu-welcome ppa :)
<robert_ancell> jbicha, thanks!
<jbicha> when are we planning to upload it to bionic?
<robert_ancell> jbicha, today
<jbicha> did you want to use a Vcs for the packaging?
<robert_ancell> jbicha, any proposals?
<jbicha> you saw Lan_ey's gvfs packaging? a ubuntu/master git branch in the LP ubuntu-desktop team derived from Salsa
<jbicha> seb128 has said he won't submit any changes to git branches this month but we can adapt  his debdiffs or whatever
<robert_ancell> jbicha, I haven't seen that but seems reasonable
<jbicha> you weren't at his talk in Budapest?
<Trevinho> jbicha: we didn't decide much how to proceed with that
<Trevinho> I'm totally in with moving all our bzr branches there
<Trevinho> as it really improves my workflow
<Trevinho> so I'll be happy to help with the transition
<jbicha> Trevinho: it breaks seb's workflow though! :|
<Trevinho> jbicha: well, we can always make a git hook that will transfer it over bzr xD
<Trevinho> But really, using git is really easy and it won't take more than 1 hour to get used to this system
<Trevinho> we should also decide what platform to use
<jbicha> if he has never used git before, it might take some time as git has odd workflow issues
<jbicha> I think most of us have been using git for years by now though
<Trevinho> yeah...
<Trevinho> i like bzr for some ways, but for sure not the way I can handle the deb branches we have
<Trevinho> it makes incredibly hard to just add a patch...
<jbicha> the Debian GNOME workflow is a little more complicated than basic git-buildpackage (and using LP makes it just a bit more complicated) but it's ok
<Trevinho> That's why I already was use git-buildpackage + bzr for my purposes
<Trevinho> not having access to the repo makes things harder to manage
<Trevinho> while having a repo I can write to, or PR against with all the code too, would make things way easier
<jbicha> Trevinho: have you done git merge proposals using LP before?
<Trevinho> jbicha: a few times
<jbicha> is the UI ok compared to gitlab?
<Trevinho> jbicha: well, gitlab is better to be fair
<Trevinho> jbicha: I'd use the GNOME one if possible, but not sure they like that :)
<Trevinho> launchpad is ok anyway, it has better points for prerequisites for example
<Trevinho> but the ui isn't nice as Gitlab has now
<jbicha> it's funny because there are 3 of us that have opinions on where we want the Ubuntu packaging and they're all different
<Trevinho> jbicha: the way I was doing :-D https://gitlab.gnome.org/3v1n0/nautilus/commits/ubuntu-3-26+patches
<Trevinho> bzr + git
<jbicha> you want it to be on GNOME, I want it to be on Debian, and Lan_ey wants it to be on LP
<Trevinho> ahaha
<Trevinho> well, on Debian, if I can't do much with salsa as a guest, I'd prefer no :-)
<Trevinho> It's true that launchpad is the natural places
<Trevinho> I mean we can always have multi-repos around but we should select one for PRs
<jbicha> we can add users to our Debian GNOME repos
<Trevinho> and in general where's gitlab is better
<jbicha> and with gitlab you can always fork and propose merges (like you can on LP or github)
<Trevinho> anyway, the host and review system is just secondary
<Trevinho> ok, ok... that's fair for me
<Trevinho> Having it in debian, I don't know... We can, if they prefer like that to eventually cherry-pick from us
<Trevinho> not sure
<Trevinho> I've not hard requireements
<Trevinho> other than that I don't want bzr for this again .)
<jbicha> like 80+% of Debian GNOME stuff is in sync between Debian & Ubuntu so we already need to use Salsa to properly contribute during much of our devel cycle
<jbicha> (the percentage is rough depending on what exactly you're counting)
<Trevinho> What I need as doing this mix of upstream and downstream work is.. Something I can quickly edit code, or cherry pick from soemthing I  already did, and generate debian patches
<Trevinho> and that's what gbd does
<Trevinho> A part that I can't pronunciate that f***ing tool :-D
<Trevinho> gbp pq*
<Trevinho> I know what it means, but it's the most annoying thing to remember and say ever!
<jbicha> jabberwocky
<jbicha> the Debian GNOME workflow sort of forces you to have local git remotes
<jbicha> so something like gbp pq import; git fetch gnome (if necessary); git cherry-pick foo1234; gbp pq export   is pretty nice
<jbicha> robert_ancell: if you weren't at Lan_ey's talk at Budapest, maybe it's easier to just not use a vcs for gnome-initial-setup this month
<robert_ancell> jbicha, I was but I'll probably just upload directly this time and then we can migrate it in later
<jbicha> robert_ancell: I can set up the repo if needed, but I'll let you decide what we do since I expect you're doing most of the packaging this month :)
<robert_ancell> jbicha, if you set it up I'm happy to push to it. You'll probably have to give me a cheat sheet to remind me of the commands :)
<jbicha> cheat sheet is at https://wiki.debian.org/Gnome/Git
<jbicha> this is an important divergence from Debian: https://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/ubuntu/+source/gvfs/commit/?id=2eb784c29
<jbicha> you have to use gbp buildpackage --git-tag-only to get the nice ubuntu/3.28.1ubuntu1 tag since 'debcommit -r' won't give that to you
<jbicha> and it needs a separate remote for Launchpad so that gets a bit more complicated with pulling and pushing
<jbicha> it kind of sounds complicated to me even! so I'm ok with you not wanting to mess with it right now
<jbicha> robert_ancell: by the way, Initial Setup uses the gnome-control-center icon basically. Would you be interested in a patch for the .desktop to use Icon=ubuntu-logo-icon instead?
<robert_ancell> jbicha, I don't have a strong opinion on it - I guess it makes sense but should we be able to keep the existing behaviour if not running in standard Ubuntu?
<jbicha> we don't currently keep the existing pages for non-standard Ubuntu, right?
<jbicha> we could ship a /usr/share/ubuntu/applications/gnome-initial-setup.desktop to override in the Ubuntu session (like we do with gnome-software and imagemagick)
<robert_ancell> jbicha, we do - it changes the page list based on XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP
<jbicha> we could ship that override in ubuntu-settings to keep the gnome-initial-setup packaging cleaner with respect to Debian and upstream
<jbicha> oh I hadn't looked at the repo recently :)
<jbicha> or closely
<robert_ancell> np, it's all a bit of a last minute hack
<jbicha> let me work on a .desktop to put in ubuntu-settings then
<robert_ancell> BOOM, uploaded as 3.28.0-2ubuntu1
<robert_ancell> Expected to be fixed a few times before release
<jbicha> robert_ancell: by the way, I filed 3 bugs today: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-initial-setup
<robert_ancell> jbicha, is 1614816 the reason that the language selector is disabled?
<jbicha> yes
<jbicha> is that a problem?
<jbicha> complicated by LP: #1631750
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1631750 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "Language installation doesn't work in Ubuntu GNOME 16.10 Settings app" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1631750
<robert_ancell> jbicha, no, I was just wondering why it was disabled.
<jbicha> it's disabled in Fedora 28 too actually
<jbicha> there's two additional issues: it duplicates a question asked in the installer and if gnome-initial-setup is run in its existing-user mode, it can't actually change the system language until log out and log back in
<jbicha> existing-user is used unless we don't have ubiquity create the first user
<robert_ancell> ah
<jbicha> hmm, I'm guessing we can't actually do the .desktop override in ubuntu-settings easily because we don't have ubuntu-settiings set up to be translatable
<robert_ancell> jbicha, thanks for the bugs!
<jbicha> I wonder how hard it would beâ¦
<robert_ancell> I wish I could edit LP bug comments...
<jbicha> to be more specific, Fedora disables the language selector in existing user mode only because of those 2 issues
<jbicha> see vendor.conf which depends on reduce-initial-setup-redundancy.patch at https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/gnome-initial-setup/tree/master
<jbicha> that way Initial Setup can be used as Fedora's OEM mode too
<jbicha> Pop!_OS is the only major distro I'm aware of that really uses gnome-initial-setup's new user mode
<jbicha> robert_ancell: I pushed the .desktop with new name and icon to https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+junk/ubuntu-settings
<jbicha> we don't have to wait for the gnome-initial-setup MIR to upload since that .desktop has NoDisplay=true anyway
<robert_ancell> jbicha, nice
<jbicha> give it a try and let me know what you think :)
<jbicha> mean while I verified that gnome-initial-setup keeps the old pages on GNOME. Interesting.
<robert_ancell> jbicha, open for feedback on that - it wasn't clear to me exactly what we should do / I don't want to take away from those who want the vanilla experience.
<robert_ancell> If it was just a few small changes I think it would be OK, but since we replace essentially all the pages...
<jbicha> I'll check with darkxst next week
<robert_ancell> ta
<jbicha> I guess we could ask Budgie and Unity guys too since they use GOA. It's easy to whitelist additional desktops
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-04-06
<jbicha> ximion: could you explain why http://appstream.ubuntu.com/bionic/main/issues/gnome-control-center.html complains about icon-not-found
<jbicha> but https://appstream.debian.org/sid/main/issues/gnome-control-center.html does not
<jbicha> the icon is installed by gnome-control-center-data which is a dependency of gnome-control-center
<jbicha> does appstream.ubuntu.com need a newer asgen version?
<jbicha> this issue affects several other apps, Firefox is a prominent example
<jbicha> oh, Firefox's problem might be different, it is a symlink which is a warning but it seems to work fine in Debian that way
<jbicha> Debian & Ubuntu's Firefox packaging is different but I think that part might be close enough
<jbicha> anyway, never mind Firefox for now
<ximion> firefox does symlinking stuff, so that won't work
<ximion> jbicha: the Ubuntu appstream-generator is very old, the icon finding logic has been refined quite a bit
<jbicha> it seems to work in Debian
<jbicha> Laney: can you update asgen some time to fix gnome-control-center? ^
<ximion> from looking at the code, the icon should have been found in Ubuntu, but there were quite some changes in the icon finding & resizing code
<ximion> asgen 0.6.8 had relaxed icon scaling rules, and 0.7.0 and 0.7.1 have a lot of improvements for HiDPI icons
 * ximion puts his bets on the 0.6.8 change for making this particular case work
<jbicha> ximion: do you want to file a Ubuntu Feature Freeze Exception for asgen 0.7.0 in bionic?
<ximion> jbicha: for that I would also need a freeze excaption for appstream, dcontainers and stdx-allocator
<ximion> which is quite a lot of stuff
<ximion> I don't see those changes breaking anything, but you it's harder to justify
<ximion> I tried to make a Snap for asgen, but that's a bit annoying, unless I figure out how to use snaps inside snaps for building :P
<ximion> making a docker container is easy though
<ximion> (or building it on bionic ^^)
<jbicha> dcontainers and stdx-allocator should be easy, they're just new packages for universe
<ximion> jup, mustache-d is also easy, no other rdeps. the major one is appstream itself, because that's a mixed bugfix and feature release
<ximion> (having it would make the KDE people very happy though ^^)
<ximion> (FWIW, appstream 0.12.0 and appstream 0.11.8 are all compatible with appstream-generator 0.7.1 output, there have been no incompatible changes)
<jbicha> do you want to file the FFE bug? since you're more of the expert here
<jbicha> what's needed for https://salsa.debian.org/gnome-team/gnome-software/commit/e52d2fa5 to work?
<ximion> would I need to file a bug report only for appstream-generator, or one for each of its dependencies as well?
<jbicha> don't worry about dcontainers, stdx-allocator, and mustache-d. Those are already being synced
<jbicha> everything else can be in one bug I assume
<ximion> in any case, I'd file it tomorrow, because I want to make the asgen 0.7.1 bugfix release tomorrow first (has some quite big bugfixes compared to 0.7.0 - and has now been tested with the whole Debian archive ^^)
<ximion> jbicha: gir-to-d would also need to be in there, but if that is updated, appstream-generator has to be updated as well, because the older asgen in Ubuntu will not compiler with gir-to-d >= 0.14
<ximion> *compile
 * ximion can't type anymore
<jbicha> ok
<ximion> for that change you need the appstream 0.12 package
<ximion> (it's a useful one though, avoids a lot of duplication and adds an easy way for software centers to install HiDPI support if they detect the right display)
<ximion> and also adds an obvious way for users to prevent icon downloads :P
<ximion> hmm, appstream 0.12 also updates the SPDX license list to 3.0, I guess I could make a good case for it
<ximion> this just reminded me that asgen needs metadata_license expression parsing, almost exclusively for GNOME Terminal...
 * ximion sees to add that quickly
<Trevinho> robert_ancell: you know if there's a way to expose the appdata info from a snap?
<Trevinho> robert_ancell: I mean, if i put it somewhere inside the snap, it could be parsed by gnome-software?
<Trevinho> I know there's a way for importing infos so far, but not really something that is enough
<Trevinho> nor is working fine to be fair
<robert_ancell> Trevinho, there is not sadly. We proposed meta/appinfo.yml or similar but it was shot dwn
<Trevinho> robert_ancell: mh, so is there any plan for something like exposing all these metadata?
<Trevinho> rewriting them just in other format looks silly to me
<robert_ancell> Trevinho, the appstream ID will be exposed as a "common-id" (still don't know what it's defined as) but all other metadata will be translated by snapcraft.
<Trevinho> robert_ancell: yeah, i'm aware of that
<Trevinho> robert_ancell: but, what I'm not understanding is then if we've the id, how can a 3rd party tool like the installer or the shell know them?
<robert_ancell> what do you mean "know them"?
<Trevinho> wouldn't be better to say: here's my appdata, then all the apps already speaking that language can parse it
<Trevinho> robert_ancell: how could the installer for example know all the metadata of this app, a part the ones that are exported by snapcraft (once this is installed, I mean)
<Trevinho> as snapcraft could not bother of knowing them all
<Trevinho> some of these are just important at runtime or once the app is installed
<robert_ancell> Trevinho, appdata important at runtime?
<Trevinho> robert_ancell: like in the telegram case things like the desktop-id provided so that it could be used to detect if it is running or to run it
<robert_ancell> Trevinho, does anything use that?
<Trevinho> robert_ancell: well, isn't for example the shell using it as shown by jbicha for getting the alias names for desktop files?
<Trevinho> robert_ancell: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-shell/merge_requests/41/diffs
<ubot5-ng> GNOME bug (Merge request) 41 in gnome-shell "WIP: Use AppStream for mapping renamed apps where possible" (comments: 0) [Opened]
<jbicha> https://github.com/3v1n0/telegram-snap/issues/5
 * robert_ancell digs in
<robert_ancell> Trevinho, jbicha I can't find any of those projects where they contain the old name - where is it stored?
<jbicha> robert_ancell: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-tweaks/commit/c553730f ??
<robert_ancell> jbicha, yeah, I was looking at gnome-documents, tali etc from the MR that Trevinho linked to, but none of the master branches seem to have provides.
<robert_ancell> why is that not just in the .desktop file?
 * Trevinho takes a break... 
<jbicha> maybe they figured it was easier to update the appstream standard than the .desktop standard?
<jbicha> appstream uses provides for other things too
<robert_ancell> sure
<robert_ancell> It seems overkill for something to have to open the AppStream database (which takes ages to load) just to note a .desktop file was renamed
<ximion> robert_ancell: libappstream needs about 1-2sec for that, appstream-glib can't be that much slower
<robert_ancell> ximion, that's pretty heavy
<ximion> if you use libas' cache it's just 380msec ^^
<ximion> Trevinho: we discussed AppStream in Snappy to death, the "import little bits of data" thing that is implemented in Snapcraft now was the best we could get so far
<robert_ancell> that sounds more reasonable :)
<robert_ancell> TO DEATH
<ximion> well, a lot and often ^^
<ximion> time appstreamcli get org.freedesktop.appstream.cli
<ximion> real    0m0,279s
<robert_ancell> ximion, so that uses a cache?
<ximion> hmm, it's okay, I think
<ximion> jup
<ximion> time appstreamcli get org.freedesktop.appstream.cli --no-cache
<ximion> real    0m0,457s
<ximion> 0m0,420s on subsequent runs
<robert_ancell> ximion, where is the cache stored / which API?
<ximion> . /var/cache/app-info/gv/ for a system-wide version, otherwise each tool using libappstream can place one wherever it wants
<robert_ancell> ah, as_pool_load_cache_file?
<ximion> that cache is basically just a compressed GVariant :P
<robert_ancell> sounds reasonable.
<robert_ancell> ximion, do you just call as_pool_set_cache_flags before as_pool_load?
<robert_ancell> (to use the system cache)
<ximion> before load
<ximion> hmm, appstream-util takes indeed longer for the same action, but I have to use "search" there, so not a very fair comparison
<robert_ancell> btw, I saw there might be an as_pool_load_async coming?
<ximion> jup, I really want that, but so far I never found time for it
<ximion> the API is very synchronous at time
<ximion> (the easy way around it is to just throw it into a separate thread and wait for that to become ready)
<ximion> I never ever thought libas would be faster that asglib - before hughsie did his AsRefString stuff, it was far surpassing it in terms of memory usage though (I haven't measured how much those changes improved it though, but hughsie certainly did)
<robert_ancell> ximion, as long as nothing inside that thread does something dangerous...
<ximion> there is so much new API and features coming to AppStream, I wonder how Snappy would be able to keep up, even if they had some more extensive format translation going on
<ximion> you shouldn't access an AsPool while it's loading ;-)
<ximion> read actions might work on it, but adding components to it might result in trouble
<robert_ancell> ximion, right, but what operations are going on inside as_pool_load?
<ximion> nothing that would impact other threads ^^
<robert_ancell> :_
<robert_ancell> :)
<ximion> disk reads, file parsing, lots of hash table lookups and insertions, etc. but no writing to disk or modifying of other connected objects
<ximion> if there was something that would cause problems, I would know that by now, because almost all software centers use it in threads
<ximion> (well, Elementary didn't care about the load delay for some time, but they might have changed that now)
<ximion> I'm not exactly sure which features you need, but disabling reading of desktop files improves performance by quite a bit
<ximion> (with metainfo files on the second place)
<ximion> those are sometimes refreshed even if a cache is used, because the user might have installed things meanwhile
<ximion> (see AsPoolFlags)
<ricotz> chrisccoulson, please push your packaging branches
<seb128> good morning destkopers
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> Morning seb128, didrocks
<didrocks> hey duflu
<seb128> hey duflu, how are you? happy friday!
<duflu> seb128, relatively good, you? Happy Friday
<seb128> I'm good thanks, a bit sick but it's ok, almost the w.e and some rest :)
<didrocks> Trevinho: when you get some time, spotted a theme regression: bug #1761684, unsure if that impacts other apps
<ubot5`> bug 1761684 in ubuntu-themes (Ubuntu) "Regression in lists like gnome-boxes" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1761684
<Laney> moin
<seb128> hey early Laney! how are you?
<seb128> poor Trevinho consider as the theme owner
<didrocks> hey Laney
<Laney> hey seb128 didrocks
<Laney> I'm alright thx, seems sunny again, what about you?
<seb128> I'm good, a bit sunny here today as well but still quite windy
<didrocks> sunny here as well!
<seb128> hate the wind :/
<willcooke> bah. No sun here.
<seb128> it's supposed to be nice this w.E though, up to 19Â°C
<Laney> jbicha: I'm very aware of the changes. If you want to make it buildable in xenial + xenial-backports, that would make life easier.
<seb128> hey willcooke
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<willcooke> jibel, thanks again for getting the beta out.
<jibel> willcooke, you're welcome
<oSoMoN> seb128, thanks for your comment on bug #1761585, I'm preparing a new upload
<ubot5`> bug 1761585 in ibus (Ubuntu) "ibus_bus_init does an unconditional call to chmod on $HOME/.config/ibus/bus" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1761585
<didrocks> hey oSoMoN, willcooke
<Laney> going with the distro patch for gnome-initial-setup then?
<Laney> 'lo oSoMoN & willcooke
<oSoMoN> hey didrocks, hey Laney
<tjaalton> when gnome-shell crashes and respawns, the dock seems to not come back?
<seb128> oSoMoN, yw!
<seb128> lut oSoMoN :)
<didrocks> tjaalton: no, it should come back, it's part of the same process and under the same env
<didrocks> tjaalton: if you start it manually from a tty, it doesn't have the env var though
<seb128> Laney, for this cycle it seems like the less resistance path and closest to what we want next cycle if we want to converge on using g-i-s anyway
<tjaalton> didrocks: ok, I filed the crasher now, bug 1761697
<ubot5`> Error: Launchpad bug 1761697 could not be found
<tjaalton> bah, bug 1761697
<didrocks> let's wait for retracer/duplicate
<Laney> seb128: we want to do that?
<Laney> man, I should get more in the loop
<Laney> thx for the info
<tjaalton> looks like framebuffer compression is not happy on skylake with 4.15 :/
<seb128> Laney, they have been mentions of looking at enabling some of the upstream pages
<tjaalton> screen keeps blanking every 20s or so
<seb128> I think we are at least going to look at it seriously next cycle
<seb128> Trevinho, Laney, on the git workflow card I agree with that Laney wrote
<oSoMoN> seb128, test packages based on your upload building in https://launchpad.net/~osomon/+archive/ubuntu/ibus-lp1761585/+packages
<seb128> oSoMoN, great, thx
<Laney> k
<tjaalton> didrocks: heh, one crash later and the dock is back :)
<didrocks> maybe a glitch :p
<oSoMoN> seb128, ibus upload tested and ready at https://people.canonical.com/~osomon/ibus/, would you mind uploading it for me?
<seb128> I can do that
<seb128> oSoMoN, I'm going to include the pending queue upload in the changes in case they reject the oldest and only accept the new upload
<seb128> oSoMoN, done
<seb128> willcooke, have you seen the discussions/reports requesting that we switch from network-manager-pptp to -openvpn by default? I don't know much about VPNs but they state that pptp is old suboptimal standard and has been deprecated by windows and other platform as less secure, etc. The request seems like it makes sense to me but I'm not a VPNs expert, you perhaps have an opinion on that question?
<willcooke> PPTP is a lot easier to set up, with many fewer config options, no certificates to set up and so on.  The downside is that it doesn't have (any/much?) encryption.  The up-side of that is that it (used to?) work in China with no problems where as open vpn didn't.
<oSoMoN> seb128, thanks!
<willcooke> You can set up a PPTP server on Ubuntu in a few mins vs long pages of reading for openvpn
<willcooke> That said, yes, openvpn is better.
<seb128> oSoMoN, np!
<willcooke> It used to be that the openvpn n-m plugins were not very good. But from what I've seen in the last few weeks (I set up an OpenVPN at the sprint to test it) it's much better now.
<willcooke> I don't think we should drop pptp yet - it's still useful to a lot of people.  But adding openvpn by default would be a good idea I think
<willcooke> Where was the discussion?  I must have missed it
<willcooke> you think that's something we would change for 18.04?
<seb128> willcooke, #ubuntu-devel yesterday a bit and https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager-openvpn/+bug/1752417
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1752417 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "Out of the box, Ubuntu Bionic offers only insecure VPN option" [Medium,Triaged]
<seb128> willcooke, well as said I don't have much knowledge about VPNs, openvpn is already in main/was being used on touch so maybe it would make sense to add it while keeping pptp
<seb128> it might be a late now for that though
<seb128> but maybe we can look at doing it for .1 if we think it makes sense?
<willcooke> +1
<seb128> Laney, ^ do you have any opinion from a r-t perspective?
<willcooke> On touch I argued to include PPTP by default
<willcooke> :)
<seb128> both?
<seb128> or just pptp?
<willcooke> both
<willcooke> happyaron, hey!  Do you know if pptp and openvpn work well in China?  I think it used to be just PPTP?
<Laney> I think that the security team should decide whether PPTP is a thing to recommend by installing it by default
<Laney> and I'd be OK with including openvpn depending on whether it brings in extra stuff too
<willcooke> seb128, I'd say it was "safe" to add openvpn now.  The UI works fine from my testing
<Laney> it's in universe btw
<Laney> sourcei s in main tho
<seb128> right
<seb128> it had an approved MIR
<seb128> so I guess it's fine to bring the binary back in main if we want to?
<Laney> guess so
<seb128> nice, thx
<willcooke> I'll ping security for their input
<Laney> but I'd defer to the security team on what should be included
<seb128> +1
<seb128> willcooke, thx
<Laney> if PPTP is as bad as people are claiming then it would be ok to make people have to go install it
<seb128> right
<seb128> willcooke, can you Cc me on that ping if it's via email?
<seb128> Laney, can you skip the udisks2 s390x autopkgtest result? the flaky test on other archs has been resolved, s390x is another issue when I sent upstream but didn't figure out yet
<seb128> that's not a regression from the new revisions, I only added the fix for the other test issue and a segfault fix from andyroc_k
<willcooke> seb128, talking in #security now
<willcooke> seb128, but they're mainly asleep for a few hours
<seb128> right
<willcooke> Wow, terrible English
<willcooke> sorry
<Laney> seb128: ok
<seb128> Laney, thx!
<seb128> bbiab, changing location
<jbicha> Laney: hi, I made ubuntu-settings translatable (needed for the Ubuntu Welcome .desktop). I guess we should make the Amazon .desktop translatable too
<jbicha> what do you think about moving the Amazon python script to /usr/bin/ and then we can drop the cdata stuff from meson.build ?
<jbicha> /usr/share/ubuntu-web-launchers/amazon-launcher
<Laney> is "Amazon" translated differently?
<Laney> I don't really want that thing on $PATH if we can help it
<jbicha> so I just visited amazon.cn and they have both amazon.cn as their logo and äºé©¬éä¸­
<jbicha> ok if you don't want it in PATH, we can leave it as is
<Laney> If you want to make the name translatable then I suggest that you make it clear in a translator comment that this is Amazon the company and not anything else which might share the word
<seb128> if we never got a report about the fact that it can't be translated I wouldn't change it
<Laney> when I made this thing I think that the Chinese website used the text amazon in its logo though
<seb128> it's more likely to create issues by having some locale wrongly translating it than being useful
<jbicha> ok, we can wait for someone to file a bug :)
<didrocks> +1
<Trevinho> didrocks: ok on theme...  seb128, sadly... yes :-/
 * seb128 hugs Trevinho
<seb128> Trevinho, good morning, happy friday! you are up early today
<seb128> how are you?
<Trevinho> hey seb128 happy friday too
<Trevinho> yeah, I need to stop a bit earlier today so...
<seb128> Trevinho, btw your new git-workflow card is sort of duplicating the exist one on https://trello.com/c/bMWcHyeJ/80-explore-ubuntu-git-workflow-and-work-with-the-server-team-to-have-some-package-maintained-that-way
<seb128> unsure it was needed in the board
<jbicha> seb128: so I looked a bit at our imagemagick .desktop situation yesterday. It turns out that the display .desktop is Debian-specific; it does not come from upstream at all
<jbicha> we have a few remaining issues like bug 1740741 and bug 1740741
<ubot5`> bug 1740741 in ubuntu-settings (Ubuntu) " * Hide imagemagick's Display app from the Ubuntu GNOME session as well" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1740741
<jbicha> I'd like to modify our imagemagick package itself to no longer install the .desktop at all and we can then drop our NoDisplay hack from ubuntu-settings
<jbicha> I talked very briefly with the Debian maintainer yesterday but it's hard to tell whether he even understands why people don't like the .desktop in at least GNOME
<seb128> wfm but it's a bit late in the cycle for that no?
<Trevinho> seb128: mh I wanted to add it to track all the items that we've to move to thaat system though
<jbicha> seb128: it's a bugfix :) and I have realized that virtually no one actually wants the display .desktop
<jbicha> check out the reviews in Ubuntu Software for imagemagick :(
<seb128> jbicha, wfm as said, I just feel like it's late for changes that could surprise users/other desktops
<seb128> but I don't think it's a big deal either
<Laney> Trevinho: UNITY_LAUNCER_FAVORITES :(((((((((((((((((((((((((
<willcooke> Trevinho, hey!  Do you use VPNs much while you're travelling?
<Trevinho> willcooke: well, quite a bit, why?
<Trevinho> willcooke: but... well, mostly company one or the one I've in my rapsberry at home
<Trevinho> willcooke: why?
<Trevinho> Laney: yeah, that's for removing the old names... eventually.
<Laney> Trevinho: yeah, you typoed launcher
<Trevinho> Laney: it's its name :-D
<Laney> :||||||||||||
<willcooke> Trevinho, which sort of VPN do you use?
<willcooke> openvpn., pptp, other?
<Trevinho> willcooke: as said, mostly those... I wanted to subscribe to torguard as there's a good deal (see on reddit)
<Trevinho> ah, openvpn
<willcooke> kk, thanks
<Trevinho> my provider provided router natively only supports pptp, but it's not really nice
<Trevinho> so I have a raspberry doing the job for me and works nicely
<Laney> Trevinho: wait what, the schema name is com.canonical.Unity.Launcher
<Laney> where does this launcer come from?
<Trevinho> Laney: I was jocking :)
<Trevinho> Laney: I've pushed the fix right now
<Trevinho> ouch you were publishing?
<Trevinho> :-D
<Trevinho> damn
<Laney> fix it for the next upload
<Laney> no need to build for this
<Trevinho> was already triggered :-D
<Trevinho> well, we'll republish later then
<Trevinho> or I can stop maybe
<Trevinho> but bileto will copmlain
<Trevinho> complain*
<Laney> save the environment
<Trevinho> if that would be enough...
<Laney> this ubuntu-welcome thing is trying to send a report even when I picked "No, don't send any data."
<Laney> s/data/info/
<jbicha> my understanding is that the design was for it to send an opt-out ping so that we know how many users are opting out
<seb128> Laney, right, it send an empty report in that case, that's something under discussion/that willcooke was going to discuss with legal as well
<Laney> seb128: ok, I filed a bug because I think that should be explicitly decided
<seb128> Laney, thx
<seb128> Laney, note that it was described in the email from willcook_e to ubuntu-devel@
<seb128> "Any user can simply opt out by unchecking the box, which triggers one simple POST stating, âdiagnostics=falseâ.  There will be a corresponding checkbox in the Privacy panel of GNOME Settings to toggle the state of this."
<seb128> and there were some questions/replies about it
<Laney> I remember
<seb128> but a bug is a good reference point as well
<Laney> But the UI is quite misleading imo
<Laney> also I was hoping that part would change before it made it into ubuntu :P
<seb128> right, me to, willcooke is going to check if we really need it or not
<seb128> also even if the UI was clear I'm unsure it would be a good option
<seb128> tell users "we are going to send that in any case", you can't even close the wizard
<Laney> agreed
<seb128> jbicha, how do you quote text to reply in trello?
<jbicha> >
<jbicha> I just used the > character to fake quote :)
<seb128> lol, thx
<Laney> I'm really tired of that discussion :(
<seb128> Laney, sry :(
<seb128> we should probably take that out of the trello
<seb128> rather on the community hub where people who want to argue can
<Laney> not you seb128
<Laney> feel free imho
<Laney> I'd advertise it as 'please use, but details might change' for the first cycle or something
<seb128> right
<Laney> so if Launchpad turns out to be shit for some reason then it can be changed
<Laney> !ohmy
<ubot5`> Please avoid any language that may be considered offensive, including acronyms and obfuscation of such - also see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines || The main channels are English only, for other languages, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/ChannelList
<oSoMoN> seb128, I've turned bug #1761585 into a xenial SRU request and attached the corresponding debdiff, can you sponsor it for me?
<ubot5`> bug 1761585 in ibus (Ubuntu) "ibus_bus_init does an unconditional call to chmod on $HOME/.config/ibus/bus" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1761585
<GunnarHj> seb128: Fixed a MP for bug #1756547. Time to review/upload before w.e.?
<ubot5`> bug 1756547 in Ubuntu Translations "LP refuses to import plural strings where e.g. msgstr[0] entries in PO file miss %d" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1756547
<seb128> jbicha, ^ maybe?
<seb128> GunnarHj, I can add to my list but it's not likely for today at this point
<jbicha> sure, I can give it a try
<GunnarHj> seb128, jbicha: Ok, thanks!
<jbicha> seb128 or whoever: could we get final wording on the "approximate location you chose (FIXME)" wording in gnome-initial-setup so that the page can be translated?
<seb128> willcooke, ^
<jbicha> I guess the issue is that the implementation just uses the selected timezone and there is a Design question about how to word that
<seb128> jbicha, note that I approved the template so it can be translated now, but yeah better if the strings stop changing
<willcooke> mpt ^ :)  Can you help with the string above?
<willcooke> jbicha, got a link handy to show where that appears?
<jbicha> willcooke: mpt isn't here :)
<willcooke> oh
<willcooke> oh yeah
<willcooke> wow, I must have typed it without trying to tab complete.  Thats a first.
<jbicha> willcooke: you can install https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-initial-setup/3.28.0-2ubuntu1
<jbicha> I can open a bug with a screenshot if you want
<willcooke> jbicha, will do and I'll email mpt and cc you
<willcooke> jbicha, nah, s'fine.  I'll do
<jbicha> after installing gnome-initial-setup, you need to log out and log back in
<Laney> it'd be nice if those pages got icons on them
<Laney> those make the upstream g-i-s pages look quite smart
<jbicha> once you've completed the wizard, you can reset it so it starts again with   rm ~/.config/gnome-initial-setup-done
<jbicha> +1
<didrocks> jbicha: for the report one, you need to clean that out in ~/.cache/ubuntu-report/<distro>.version
<didrocks> (if the report was sent successfully to the server)
<didrocks> (meaning, when we'll have a server :p)
<seb128> oSoMoN, ibus SRU uploaded
<oSoMoN> seb128, awesome, thanks!
<seb128> yw!
<seb128> l:
<seb128> ups
<seb128> Laney, icons like on the page content?
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> they have icons above the header
<seb128> k, they probably changed compared to the screenshots I saw
<seb128> e.g https://www.tecmint.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/fed-19.jpg
<seb128> well I saw some have but it didn't seem obvious they all did to me
<didrocks> fedora 19 ;)
<jbicha> seb128: XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP=GNOME /usr/lib/gnome-initial-setup/gnome-initial-setup --existing-user
<Laney> override XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP and have a look
<seb128> I was concerned it would screw some of my configs :p
<seb128> I miss guest sessions :/
<jbicha> it won't break anything
<seb128> like no code ever had bugs right :)
<jbicha> 95.8% sure this time :)
<seb128> hehe
<seb128> oSoMoN, bah, ibus SRU rejected because the version already exist from the archive (from a newer serie I guess), I'm tweaking the number and reuploading
<oSoMoN> seb128, oh, I didn't think of checking other seriesâ¦
<seb128> oSoMoN, yeah, neither did I :p
<oSoMoN> seb128, that was in yakkety: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ibus/1.5.11-1ubuntu3
<seb128> oSoMoN, right, that was expected, the next revision is usually in the next serie :)
<oSoMoN> but I definitely wouldn't have thought of checking yakkety, being EOL and hidden on https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ibus
<willcooke> xnox, nice work on that dns/captive portal bug.  That must have been hard to find
<seb128> oSoMoN, easier to check on https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ibus/+publishinghistory
<seb128> willcooke, which one is that?
<didrocks> we should really generalize <version>-XubuntuY.1, .2, .3 when the packages aren't synced to the new series anymore
<willcooke> seb128, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/1727237
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1727237 in systemd (Ubuntu Artful) "systemd-resolved is not finding a domain" [High,Triaged]
 * flocculant must tweak his xubuntu ping
<seb128> willcooke, good to see that somebody went to the bottom of it instead of having handwaving comments stating it should be fix in the vcs or such :)
<seb128> didrocks, yeah, that avoids those issues
<oSoMoN> seb128, indeed, I'll make sure I check there next time IÂ prepare a SRU
<didrocks> seb128: I'm guilty as well I must say :)
<willcooke> jbicha, I was looking at the designs from mpt
<willcooke> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IDQwpqTsB7Cmw413ApXioHeO2E9nv8bHugjxCOg9A-Q/edit
<willcooke> I think "FIXME" is supposed to show the location, I don't think there is anything wrong with that string itself
<jbicha> ok I see
<jbicha> we need to remove FIXME from the string at least though
<willcooke> yeah
<jbicha> it can be a separate string if we need a TODO reminder
<willcooke> also, related, Laney - we should have icons a la upstream: https://github.com/CanonicalLtd/desktop-design/issues/66
<ubot5-ng> CanonicalLtd bug 66 in desktop-design "Visual design for first-login window" (comments: 2) [Closed] - Assigned to spencerbygraves (None)
<ubot5`> Error: Could not gather data from Launchpad for bug #66 (https://launchpad.net/bugs/66). The error has been logged
<willcooke> I dont think that issue should be closed though
<Laney> are those the designs?
<willcooke> Yes, but
<Laney> should probably attach some screenshots of the upstream pages as they aren't going to fit in
<willcooke> we've already pointed out that they need to move the nav to the headerbar
<willcooke> and yeah, as you say, they wont fit
<Laney> that first screenshot labels the app menu as a window switcher
<willcooke> ohhhhh
<willcooke> I've just commetned on the wrong trello card
<willcooke> sorry didrocks
<seb128> lol
<willcooke> I will fix it
<willcooke> Laney, yeah, see my comment at the bottom :)
<Laney> ok th
<Laney> x
 * didrocks sobs, how dared you!
<willcooke> fixed
<willcooke> https://trello.com/c/OaRRF8L3/228-implement-first-run-wizard
 * willcooke hugs didrocks 
<didrocks> waow, your actions are even removed from the historyâ¦
<didrocks> you rewrote the past!
 * didrocks hugs willcooke back
<didrocks> git-based-trello
<willcooke> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1QF_GuGOGo
<didrocks> good fit
<Laney> jbicha: does dh_translations work with meson?
<seb128> Laney, good one :)
<Laney> hmmmmmmmmm?
<jbicha> um, I think it sort of works the way I'm doing it in ubuntu-settings
<seb128> Laney, bug #1751820
<ubot5`> bug 1751820 in pkgbinarymangler (Ubuntu) "Teach dh_translations how to deal with meson" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1751820
<seb128> meson is making that easy :/
<seb128> there is no clear definition of the domain nor way to query it
<seb128> unlike config.h definition in good old autotools
<seb128> or cmake
<Laney> tbh if you could giv ethe domain to dh_translations that would be good enough
<seb128> yeah, that's what sort of my conclusion/what I wrote on that bug
<Laney> indeed
<Laney> jbicha: what kind of sort of?
<Laney> AFAICS they just won't be stripped
<seb128> it's a bit unfortunate that they changed the "standard" "make domain.pot" target as well
<seb128> need to do "domain-pot-update" now in meson project
<jbicha> Laney: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+junk/ubuntu-settings/view/head:/debian/rules
<seb128> so we need to special case that as well
<Laney> I know, I'm reviewing the upload in the queue
<didrocks> annoying having to override all dh_translations call thoughâ¦
<Laney> so you get the translations in Launchpad but they won't actually be used by the desktop file...?
<seb128> yeah, go GNOME using "better" tools :p
<didrocks> well, the general idea isn't bad, it's just that distros weren't taken into account while designing it seemsâ¦
<seb128> rather "translations" than "distro"
<seb128> when I talked to Jussi he basically said that those were basically not part of meson/things dealt with by other people
<seb128> as often I think a good part of dev are just not aware of having to deal with translations or considering them as second class problems than can be sorted out later
<seb128> which they eventually did but it feel like it was hacked on top
<seb128> oh well, it sort of work but could have been nicer in that regard
<seb128> k, moving location back, brb
<Laney> laney@nightingale> meson introspect --targets | jq -r -M '.[].name | select(endswith("-pot")) | sub("-pot"; "")'
<Laney> ubuntu-default-launchers
<Laney> phew
<didrocks> \o/
<didrocks> so, we can automate that in dh_translations
<didrocks> hum, in some projects, meson introspect --targets gives me a stacktrace
<jbicha> I guess I do need to add X-Ubuntu-Gettext-Domain to the .desktop's here manually though
<Laney> that's the main missing bit
<GunnarHj> dh_translations needs to know about the builddir too, right?
<Laney> you need to run that command in the build dir
<Laney> there's probably a debhelper library function to get that
<Laney> also, hey GunnarHj
<GunnarHj> Laney: There is, but dh_translations is a perl script, so if I understand it correctly, you need to pass the builddir to the script.
<didrocks> Laney: even in the builddir, I needed to do meson introspect . --targets to not get a stacktrace
<GunnarHj> Hi Laney. :)
<didrocks> it's taking sys.argv[1:]
<Laney> didrocks: um, ok, I just pasted what I ran so shrug I guess
<didrocks> Laney: I betâ¦ I'm unsure what's different here.
<didrocks> and the --help clearly says it's optional
<didrocks> but the stacktrace here is quite real :p
<GunnarHj> didrocks: Are you saying that perl could grab the builddir via some sys.argv[1] variable?
<didrocks> GunnarHj: no, I'm just talking about meson introspect, but yeah, perl dh_* can get the builddir
<Laney> I'm sure it can somehow, the other dh_* must do that
<didrocks> I saw a lot of self->builddir() or something similar
<didrocks> in various debhelper releated functions
<GunnarHj> That sounds promising. Possibly we can fix that bug completely then. :)
<didrocks> Laney: do you mind trying it in github.com/ubuntu/gtk-communitheme ?
<didrocks> mkdir build
<didrocks> cd build && meson introspect --targets
<didrocks> (without the rest, just checking if you get the stacktrace as well)
<didrocks> (sorry mkdir build -> meson build)
<Laney> laney@nightingale (master|â)> meson introspect --targets | jq -r -M '.[].name | select(endswith("-pot")) | sub("-pot"; "")'                                                                           ~/temp/gtk-communitheme/build
<Laney> laney@nightingale (master|â)>                                                                                                                                                                         ~/temp/gtk-communitheme/build
<Laney> there used to be a program called mesonintrospect before
<didrocks> Laney: 0.45.1-1ubuntu2?
<jbicha> didrocks: I get the introspect crash with ubuntu-settings too
<didrocks> http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/DqHhp2bkBC/
<didrocks> jbicha: and not anymore if you specify the build-dir in the arg?
<jbicha> yes, that sounds like an upstream bug
 * didrocks puzzled why Laney doesn't get it. Maybe it would be worth until we figure that out to always specify builddir in dh_translation calling this
<Laney> dunno, but feel free to file it upstream I guess
 * Laney is the lucky one
<didrocks> LL (Lucky Laney)
 * Laney wears a badge
<seb128> willcooke, bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager-openvpn/+bug/1752417 turned into a ffe for the openvpn addition
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1752417 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "[ffe] Out of the box, Ubuntu Bionic offers only insecure VPN option" [Medium,Triaged]
<willcooke> thanks seb128
<willcooke> internet is wonky today
 * willcooke suspects that there will be a BT van down the street
 * didrocks goes off. Enjoy for the week-end everyone!
<didrocks> s/for//
<doko> jbicha, seb128: fyi, I backported the brotli alignmnet fixes. needs a reference now in a package or a seed
<ximion> Laney: if you also agree that that's a good idea, I would file a sync request for appstream and appstream-generator for Bionic later today, as jbicha requested
<ximion> I think I could make a good case for it, but I would also in no way be surprised if that change gets rejected
<jbicha> doko: thank you. brotli itself doesn't help me much without bug 1742743 though
<ubot5`> bug 1742743 in woff2 (Ubuntu) "[MIR] woff2" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1742743
<Laney> ximion: Depends on if you're going to break the post-update-command or not ð
<ximion> I actually had to think a lot about that, it was so much fun last time, so why not do it again? But then I decided that for better entertainment value it is best to not repeat an old trick and instead better come up with something new ;-)
<ximion> so, no post-update hook will get broken ^
<ximion> Laney: more seriously, there are actually some bugfixes in there that will be very useful. For example, did you know HiDPI icons don't really work with Bionic's current version of AS? ;-)
<Laney> ximion: ok, feel free to file the FFe requests and explain why it's safe in there ;-)
<ximion> also, an update to SPDX v3.0 is good in an LTS release
<ximion> but most important question for me is actually: would this enable you to update appstream-generator on the server easier/faster?
<Laney> a snap would be best :P
<Laney> but without that - kind of but not massively, still need to make it buildable in xenial
<Laney> we don't use the asgen archive package there at all
<ximion> I played with it a bit, but making snaps on Debian is a pain: https://github.com/ximion/asgen-snap/blob/master/snapcraft.yaml and getting LDC into the Snap is even more of a pain - there is a Snap bundle for LDC, so I wonder whether I would really need to compile that thing again when creating the asgen snap
<ximion> also, getting yarn into the snap will be... fun...
 * ximion never had to make a snap that was that complicated
<seb128> doko, thanks, I still don't think it was required since it was a regression in proposed and we could have stayed on the current version from bionic until the next update, but I guess at least we don't forget about it this way ... webkit2gtk is going to pull it in but it needs bug #1742743 to be acked as well first
<ubot5`> bug 1742743 in woff2 (Ubuntu) "[MIR] woff2" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1742743
<ximion> Laney: the new asgen will give you much better icon tarball sizes: https://appstream.debian.org/data/sid/main/
<ximion> the reduced memory usage doesn't appear to be as strong anymore though, and I only updated the GLib bindings...
<ximion> so I sort of blame that
<Laney> new version of gir-to-d?
<ximion> that and new wrapfiles is what changed
<ximion> jup
<ximion> I'll need to ask the author of both to please make a new release, Git master seems to have a lot of useful changes
<ximion> but in general, memory usage is much lower, still
<ximion> the big news is the better icon handling though, I am incredibly pleased with that now
<Laney> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/XVQfzKwzhQ/
<jbicha> ?
<GunnarHj> jbicha: Just a friendly ping about that gnome-shell MP. I'm curious about the result...
<willcooke> gnight all.  Have a restful weekend.
<jbicha> GunnarHj: do you need to do something to make ubuntu-settings available for translation in LP?
<jbicha> do I need to upload the gettext domain change first?
<jbicha> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+junk/ubuntu-settings/revision/131
<GunnarHj> jbicha: I just approved the template in the import queue. Let's see if that's it.
<GunnarHj> jbicha: Hasn't that package had any translatable strings before?
<jbicha> no
<jbicha> unless you wanted to translate "Amazon" but we decided today that wasn't very important
<Laney> Don't upload that revision
<Laney> I'm fixing dh-translations.
<jbicha> ok
<GunnarHj> jbicha: Done now. Gave it high priority, so it's on the first page of respective language's overview. Now I'll be busy for a while with figuring out a nice Swedish translation of "Welcome to Ubuntu". :)
<Laney> there, I uploaded a diff to bug #1751820
<ubot5`> bug 1751820 in pkgbinarymangler (Ubuntu) "Teach dh_translations how to deal with meson" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1751820
<jbicha> we have a few days before the next langpack update any way :)
<Laney> I'm looking for review if anyone's feeling up for it
<Laney> anyways, I'll be off now
<Laney> feel free to also upload it if you get super brave
<seb128> Laney, look fine in principle to me but I'm about to call it a day/week as well so detailled review is for monday (unless GunnarHj or someone beats me)
<seb128> have a nice w.e desktopers!
<jbicha> GunnarHj: thanks, it looks like it works https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/bionic/+source/ubuntu-settings/+pots/ubuntu-default-launchers
<GunnarHj> jbicha: Indeed. Final confirmation at next langpack update.
<andyrock> seb128: unsure you're still around but https://code.launchpad.net/~azzar1/update-notifier/xdg-autostart-path-units/+merge/342808
<oSoMoN> good night, and have a good week-end desktoppers!
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-04-07
<tsimonq2> Just an FYI: https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3221
<tsimonq2> I was requested to make those changes by people working on Unity 7.
<tsimonq2> Trevinho: ^
<tsimonq2> I'll land them shortly, once Britney is happy.
<ahayzen> Hi, if there is a bug reported against an ubuntu package, but the bug is actually upstream - after linking/referring to the upstream bug. What status should be set to the launchpad bug ? Eg should it be confirmed/triaged or set to invalid as it is upstream not ubuntu ? Or are there any wiki pages on this or a more suitable channel to ask in?
<jbicha> ahayzen: Triaged https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Bug%20statuses
<ahayzen> jbicha, ok, hmm i'm not a bug supervisor of flatpak, so I can't set it to triaged :-/ (this is the bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/flatpak/+bug/1762047) And am i right in saying we can't add bug watches for github yet ? or i am doing it wrong :-)
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1762047 in flatpak (Ubuntu) "System must be restarted for Flatpak apps to be listed in menu" [Undecided,New]
<jbicha> interesting bug. comment on the upstream bug suggests there might be something we could pre-install to fix this bug
<jbicha> you should be able to add github bugs. Click "Also affects project" on the LP bug
<jbicha> it's *gitlab* bugs that aren't supported in Launchpad yet LP: #1745210
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1745210 in Launchpad itself "Support GNOME GitLab Issues as external bugtracker" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1745210
<ahayzen> jbicha, ah awesome thanks! I've linked the github one now. Yes i think parts of the bug may be solved with certain config files, i'll try to discuss with upstream again at some point, i think there were concerns that it wouldn't work fully. And finally to set the bug to "triaged", do i need to be part of the "bug control" team or something ?
<jbicha> yes https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugControl
<yangbl> I love to use Mate desktop environment.
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-04-08
<maxb> Hello, would anyone be able to help me figure out the right place to report this bug?   Something appears to be wiping out the 'Synaptics Soft Button Areas' setting - despite the line "(**) Option "SoftButtonAreas" "50% 0 82% 0 0 0 0 0"" actually showing up in my Xorg.log
<maxb> Any hints as to what might be responsible so I can target a report correctly would be appreciated.
<jbicha> maxb: which version of Ubuntu are you using?
<maxb> bionic
<maxb> Sorry, should have said, this didn't happen on bionic around March, but does now
<maxb> I'm not sure quite when it was introduced though
<maxb> When I inspect it with xinput list-props, or synclient, all values are set to zero
<jbicha> run   ubuntu-bug mutter   to report that issue please
<jbicha> robert_ancell: good morning, I filed a few more gnome-initial-setup bugs today
<jbicha> and GunnarHJ left a comment on bug 1761578
<ubot5`> bug 1761578 in gnome-initial-setup (Ubuntu) "Get more apps offers to install Firefox snap which is already installed" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1761578
<maxb> jbicha: I think I found the underlying problem: it appears to be a somewhat dubious gsettings change. Setting org.gnome.desktop.peripherals.touchpad click-method to 'default' appears to rectify the problem
<maxb> Confusingly, 'default' isn't the default, and the default appears to have been changed in a way to disable behaviour without it appearing to have a configuration UI
<GunnarHj> jbicha: Do you know anything about that extra translation domain in g-c-c I stumbled upon?
<maxb> :q
<maxb> oops
<tsimonq2> :wq
<maxb> Argh. Somehow in fixing that problem, some mystery software component has now started to trample on the Synaptics Click Action property to disable three-fingers to middle-button
<jbicha> GunnarHj: it's strange https://paste.debian.net/1019344/ but there's no POTFILES.in so that sort of makes sense
<jbicha> see the readme at https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-control-center/tree/master/panels/datetime/po-timezones
<jbicha> we apparently never bothered trying to translate them before in LP
<jbicha> it's rare for a package to have more than one gettext domain so I'm more ok with handling that in the packages debian/rules
<GunnarHj> jbicha: The timezone locations are in Swedish for me anyway, so I'm not sure there is even a need to translate it. Maybe it's simply obsolete code.
<jbicha> I'm sure Debian GNOME will appreciate us not needing to have a dozen extra lines of boilerplate in all our main packages at least :)
<GunnarHj> yeah..
<jbicha> GunnarHj: I assume it's in Swedish *because* it's translated upstream
<GunnarHj> jbicha: But aren't the upstream translations stripped?
<jbicha> maybe dh_translations doesn't know about that unusual usage
<jbicha> you're welcome to make a patch to delete that sv.po and see what happens when you run it :)
<GunnarHj> jbicha: Which sv.po?
<GunnarHj> $ dpkg -L gnome-control-center-data | grep .mo$
<GunnarHj> $
<jbicha> the one in the directory I pointed to above
<GunnarHj> Yeah, I realized that once I had asked. But there are no .mo files shipped with the packages AFAICT.
<jbicha> ð¤·
<GunnarHj> jbicha: And not in the langpacks. So it's a bit confusing.
<jbicha> strange. Debian does have those files https://buildd.debian.org/status/fetch.php?pkg=gnome-control-center&arch=all&ver=1%3A3.28.0-1&stamp=1521423013&raw=0
<GunnarHj> jbicha: That's not so strange. We strip them when building, they don't.
<GunnarHj> Can it be that kind of translations which are used to create translations in static files?
<GunnarHj> jbicha: Let's ask someone tomorrow. There is possibly a simple explanation.
<jbicha> GunnarHj: I checked on Debian and deleted that .mo. The timezones still appear translated
<jbicha> so I'm going with the guess that those translations are somehow built into the binary
<GunnarHj> jbicha: Me too.
<jbicha> if that's true, there's still a bug in that distros don't need to install those .mo files
<GunnarHj> Right. In that case, they shouldn't need to be built in the first place.
<maxb> (filed bug 1762261 about one half of earlier reported touchpad issues)
<ubot5`> bug 1762261 in mutter (Ubuntu) "Bug in Ubuntu patch for synaptics support prevents me configuring my touchpad same as previous Ubuntu releases" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1762261
<jbicha> maxb: oh, that sounds different than it sounded like you were talking about. Both the GNOME 3.28 and Ubuntu 18.04 release notes mention the change in touchpad right-click behavior
<jbicha> and recommand that you use GNOME Tweaks if you want the old behavior
<maxb> OK, so part of this is on me for not thoroughly reading the release notes, but even if you assume that everyone will do so, the situation remains that previously you *could* configure the gnome desktop to get out of the way and let you set custom stuff, and now you no longer can
<maxb> It looks like the Tweaks UI doesn't permit setting click-method='default'
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-04-01
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<didrocks> good morning oSoMoN, everyone!
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks
<duflu> Hi oSoMoN and didrocks
<duflu> and sil2100
<didrocks> hey duflu
<sil2100> o/
<willcooke> morning all
<Laney> yo :>
<didrocks> hey willcooke, wb Laney!
<willcooke> morning didrocks Laney - hope you guys had a good break
<didrocks> was a nice 2 days off, indeed :) Seems like things like scaling migrated on Friday, unsure how much you had to pay to the release team :)
<Laney> yes, was nice
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<willcooke> hi seb128, wb
<seb128> hey willcooke Laney
<seb128> thanks!
<duflu> Morning willcooke and Laney
<willcooke> afternoon duflu
<duflu> There is one confirmed report of a regression from X11 scaling (bug 1822478) but I don't know how common on widespread it is, yet
<ubot5`> bug 1822478 in mutter (Ubuntu) "All on screen text is tiny. Icons are normal size but text is nearly unreadable." [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1822478
<duflu> *common or widespread
<Laney> hey duflu, wb seb128
<seb128> Laney, did you have good holidays?
<oSoMoN> good morning willcooke, Laney, seb128
<seb128> lut oSoMoN, en forme ?
<oSoMoN> and hey duflu, sorry I missed your greeting earlier
<willcooke> duflu, interesting.  Sounds like nvidia might have a part to play there too>?
<oSoMoN> seb128, oui, la forme, et toi?
<duflu> willcooke, anything is possible but I can't imagine how yet
<Laney> seb128: yes, good thanks, we got some nice weather and did a few decent walks
<Laney> what about you?
<marcustomlinson> morning!
 * marcustomlinson feels robbed of an hour of weekend time
<duflu> Morning marcustomlinson
 * duflu assumes daylight saving something...
<seb128> oSoMoN, en forme!
<marcustomlinson> yeah... the whole daylight savings thing is new to me.
<seb128> Laney, mostly good, sunny & relaxing, I recovered from the flu also :)
<didrocks> hey marcustomlinson!
<oSoMoN> DST not new to me, but still a pain in the neck every time it happens, can't wait for EU to put an end to that nonsense
<willcooke> agreed
<seb128> (we had meals at the hotel and the food was not great though, also we go a bit of a stomach bug for some days)
<seb128> but otherwise everything was nice :)
<willcooke> seb128,  the joys of family holidays :)
<seb128> yeah :/
<seb128> btw that place was mostly brits
<seb128> who seemed to enjoy the greasy food and the cheap beer :p
<Laney> /o\
<marcustomlinson> seb128: The Scots are particularly proud of deep frying stuff. Come and visit, grab a deep-fried Mars bar
<seb128> lol
<seb128> I've heard of that fried-mars-bar thing before, sounds scary to me :p
<marcustomlinson> it's so bad, it's so good
<jamesh> didrocks: are you able to give me permission to post on this community hub topic? https://community.ubuntu.com/t/gnome-snaps-in-19-04/10391
<willcooke> jamesh, I'm looking
<didrocks> will or popey, indeed
<jamesh> willcooke: thanks.  It'd be kind of nice if Discourse automatically gave you post privileges if someone else references you like that...
<willcooke> yeah, that would seem like a generally good idea
<willcooke> Gah, this thing is annoying
<willcooke> jamesh, either I'm an idiot or I dont have rights.  Both are likely.  Bear with me while I call in the experts
<willcooke> jamesh, done.
<jamesh> willcooke: thanks
<andyrock> good morning!
<willcooke>  morning andyrock
<didrocks> hey andyrock
<duflu> Morning andyrock
<oSoMoN>  good morning andyrock
<oSoMoN> Laney, would you consider sponsoring my ubuntu-wallpapers update? (bug #1821900)
<ubot5`> bug 1821900 in ubuntu-wallpapers (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu 19.04 Community Wallpapers" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1821900
<Laney> sure
<oSoMoN> source package is there: https://people.canonical.com/~osomon/ubuntu-wallpapers-disco/
<Laney> I didn't realise that this was done, usually I've handled that in the past
<Laney> will look later on
<oSoMoN> thanks! I've handled it last week while you were away, but all potential sponsors were outâ¦
<oSoMoN> your comments welcome, hopefully I didn't mess up with your workflow
<Trevinho> morning from the Caribe :)
<oSoMoN> good morning Trevinho
<Trevinho> hi oSoMoN
<seb128> hey trevinho, how are you? did you have a nice flight?
<oSoMoN> don't spill that piÃ±a colada on your laptop
<seb128> Marco """working""" from the beach again :p
<Trevinho> seb128: yeah, was good... Alitalia has good international flights tbh, considering also that it was the last of the season and I got an international one for 179â¬.
<seb128> wiith a cocktail in the pool
<seb128> that's cheap!
<seb128> you should have got the business class :)
<Trevinho> seb128: nope, I'm working from my Liberty stile hose in la Havana facing the Havana Libre hotel (and thus wifi :P)
<seb128> :)
<willcooke> L)
<willcooke> :)
<Trevinho> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/tIH9yHXo/IMG_20190401_090620.jpg
<didrocks> missing some glasses of $something, obviously
<dupondje> Any known bugs open on 19.04 with dual screen and crashing gnome-shell?
<willcooke> dupondje, after suspend/resume or just generally?
<dupondje> Seems like since latest mutter? (should check), that gnome-shell crashes when attaching my docking :(
<willcooke> dupondje, hm, dont think so.  Please could you log a bug?
<didrocks> I don't see that either
<dupondje> doesnt seem to happen every time
<joedborg> Hello all, which project should i log a bug against where the scaling factor isn't being persisted across reboots?
<willcooke> joedborg, probably mutter to start with: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mutter
<dupondje> willcooke: tried to simulate multiple ways, but I failed to :(
<dupondje> weird
<willcooke> dupondje, keep an eye out, please log a bug if you see it again
<didrocks> oh my stackoverflow
<marcustomlinson> haha yeah
<joedborg> cheers willcooke
<tjaalton> is there a replacement for unity_support_test from nux-tools?
<Trevinho> tjaalton: mh no... I don't think so. Well we can easily move that thing outside nux since wasn't ever really nux dependenty.
<Trevinho> it's just a .c file to be compiled with all low-level checks
<tjaalton> cert folks are still using that, but maybe it could be moved to xorg?
<Trevinho> tjaalton: sure..
<tjaalton> okay, I'll see what can be done for EE
<Trevinho> tjaalton: just rename env variables (or add fallbacks with more generic ones), rename it and that's fine
<Trevinho> tjaalton: if they need it... otherwise we might also probably something in mutter..
<Trevinho> tjaalton: however.... There's also a gnome tool that does such checks but well, a bit less strict
<Trevinho> but in theory should be eoungh
<tjaalton> okay
<Trevinho> tjaalton: in fact you could use one of the /usr/lib/gnome-session/gnome-session-check-accelerated* tools
<Trevinho> as that's what gdm uses anyways, so indeed more conformant to what we're using low-level
<tjaalton> Trevinho: ok cool
<Trevinho> while probably would be nicer to have a "mutter --check-compatibility" or something like that so that there's no mismatch with reality
<Trevinho> as mutter might still do further checks
<oSoMoN> I need a MOTU to push a no-change rebuild of rust-cbindgen to disco, to help with the rust transition, can someone help?
<didrocks> oSoMoN: happy to do it tomorrow morning if nobody beats me :) My sbuild to build the source package isn't setup yet and it seems you need rust/cargo to build itâ¦
 * didrocks is always annoyed when even building a source package requires a lot of perl :p
<oSoMoN> didrocks, yeah, tomorrow morning is fine, there's no rush, thanks!
<didrocks> oSoMoN: just do a gentle reminder please :)
<oSoMoN> didrocks, will do, at 6AM sharp :)
<didrocks> sure sure
 * didrocks won't be connected anyway :p
<oSoMoN> ricotz, ^
<Laney> ubuntu-wallpapers-disco_19.04.2-0ubuntu1_all.deb
<Laney>  Installed-Size: 37407
<Laney> ubuntu-wallpapers-cosmic_19.04.2-0ubuntu1_all.deb
<Laney>  Installed-Size: 19082
<Laney> care or no care?
<oSoMoN> yeah, IÂ noticed it's much bigger than for previous releases
<willcooke> Laney, I checked the sizes etc, and the JPG's were smaller, except for one PNG which looked bad when I JPGed it
<willcooke> so I don't think there's a lot I can do to shrink them.  Let me try one or two real quick
<willcooke> oh, hold on....
<Laney> it's not the biggest we've had
<Laney> e.g. -rw-r--r-- 1 laney laney 36M Apr  1 15:54 ubuntu-wallpapers-bionic_19.04.2-0ubuntu1_all.deb
 * oSoMoN -> school, bbiab
<Laney> then again raring is 2.2M
<willcooke> I've got a horrible feeling I didn't export these properly - I think I left the thumbnails embeded
<willcooke> bah.  "Set as default" didnt set as default
<willcooke> Laney, new xz uploaded to the bug which is about 1/3rd the size.  Sorry, and thanks for spotting it.
<willcooke> file names are all the same
<Laney> :3
<Laney> 2/3 of it were thumbnails?!?!?!?
<k_alam> seb128: Hi, good afternoon....can you review the u-c-c merge ?
<seb128> hey k_alam, what merge?
<k_alam> this one https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-control-center/+bug/1819368
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1819368 in unity-control-center (Ubuntu) "unity-control-center crashed with SIGSEGV in free()" [Medium,Confirmed]
<seb128> k
<Laney> oSoMoN: ok if I take that new tarball and upload it?
<k_alam> seb128: I made a list which has merge for vala 0.44 as well...they are already approved..may those can be merged before release ? https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/5X9gJMpFzY/
<Laney> willcooke: 80s_Disco_Dingo_Simulation_by_Abubakar_NK.jpg was a png before, is that right?
<seb128> k_alam, I can try having a look
<willcooke> Laney, correct.  I converted it to a jpg and tweaked the quality settings a bit - I'm happy with the outcome
<Laney> k
<k_alam> seb128: Thanks.
<willcooke> Laney, thumbnails, xcf info (?) and meta data.  Gimp was embedding stuff I wasnt expecting
<Laney> such small
<Laney> no many bytes
<oSoMoN> Laney, sure, please go ahead
<Laney> ð¤
<Laney> hmm, no gnome-characters search provider for me any more
<Laney> ð yeahhh
<oSoMoN> good evening all
<willcooke> night all
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-04-02
<didrocks> good morning
<jibel> hi
<didrocks> Am I the only one to see 2 things? Scaling factor is all messed up for the Shell UI on boot and some slowdown, like pause for 5s sometimes, second array, all UI frozen?
<jibel> I don't see that
<didrocks> opening a bug on the first one at least, easily reproducible here
<duflu> Morning didrocks and jibel
<duflu> didrocks, there's a known issue for Nvidia
<duflu> scaling...
<duflu> biab
<didrocks> duflu: is there a bug opened? It's indeed Nvidia. Is it worked on?
<didrocks> (and hi!)
<RAOF> didrocks: Oh! You also see the 5 second pauses!
<RAOF> bug# 1815550
<didrocks> RAOF: oh, so nvidia specific as well?
<RAOF> didrocks: For me, gnome-shell spins, unresponsive, at 100% CPU usage each time a zsh prompt is displayed.
<didrocks> good that you spot it on RSS
<RAOF> didrocks: Yeah. My intel + amd box is much, much smoother.
<didrocks> it's really a PITA. Let's nominate it for -incoming
<RAOF> Yeah, it's a tremendously bad experience.
<didrocks> RAOF: do you have the scaling factor issue as well on that box?
<RAOF> I do not have the scaling factor issue on that box.
<RAOF> I'm booting with `nvidia_drm.modeset=1`, though, which hasâ¦ different behaviours.
<RAOF> (Mostly the behaviour is that GDM can't log in until I manually start an X server on a VT)
<didrocks> unnince
<didrocks> ok, another pause :(
<didrocks> and I didn't start any app anything
<didrocks> just switched window
<RAOF> I don't *normally* notice it just generally mousing around. But that's partially because it happens *every* *single* *time* I press <enter> in a terminal.
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<duflu> didrocks, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bugs?field.tag=x11-scaling
<duflu> Hi oSoMoN and RAOF
<oSoMoN> hi duflu
<RAOF> Ello!
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks
<oSoMoN> didrocks, mw_hudson already handled the rust-cbindgen no-change rebuild
<duflu> RAOF, didrocks, sounds easy to reproduce. I might switch to NVIDIA instead of reverting to SRU work soon
<duflu> RAOF: where you using modeset=1 when the bug was first reported?
<duflu> *were*
<RAOF> I think I was using modest=1 when U first reported the bug. It'll be recorded in the apport details anyway.
<duflu> RAOF, it's not
<RAOF> Oh, /proc/cmdline isn't captured?
<RAOF> Anyway, I probably was using it.
<duflu> Unless you count the loaded module name
<RAOF> I can try without, if you like.
<duflu> RAOF, yes please
<RAOF> I might need to get to that tomorrow.
<didrocks> oSoMoN:oh nice! THANKS :)
<didrocks> (without caps)
<didrocks> duflu: FYI, I have modeset=1
<didrocks> I have it for a couple of cycles
<duflu> RAOF: yeah I thought that too. Night...
<duflu> didrocks, thanks
<didrocks> duflu: if I can help debugging, do not hesitate
<duflu> Oooh. Actually mutter uses a completely different code path for Nvidia modeset=1
<duflu> One which I don't use or test normally
<didrocks> ahhh, so you might be able to reproduce :)
<duflu> didrocks, but you weren't using modeset=1 with the scaling issue right?
<duflu> I also assume people using nvidia-drm.modeset=1 are using Wayland sessions because there's no point otherwise. Although that might have its own bugs if used with Xorg
<didrocks> duflu: I do have the scaling issue with modeset=1
<didrocks> and I'm using the Xorg session, I switched to modeset=1 a while ago, when testing Wayland
<didrocks> to test the "Run that on intel, run this on nvidia" IIRC
<RAOF> I am not using the Wayland session, either.
<RAOF> (because Steam doesn't work in it ð)
<RAOF> I use `modeset=1` to test Mir
<didrocks> RAOF: Steam doesn't start at all with Wayland?
<RAOF> didrocks: XWayland has no GL acceleration on NVIDIA.
<duflu> Cool, thanks didrocks and RAOF. That's odd but now I know.
<RAOF> So while Steam might *start*, it's not very useful ð
<didrocks> duflu: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1822478/comments/12 FYI
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1822478 in mutter (Ubuntu) "[regression][nvidia] All on screen text is tiny. Icons are normal size but text is nearly unreadable." [High,Triaged]
<didrocks> RAOF: ahah :)
<didrocks> ok, got it
<didrocks> duflu: so basically, when "resetting" on g-c-c, it does what I expect, the issue is only initial state on boot
<didrocks> duflu: s/upon/until/ btw
<duflu> didrocks, OK. I need to get through my pending work yet. I'll try and remember when I start on that bug proper
<didrocks> sounds good :)
<willcooke> morning all
<didrocks> hey willcooke
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<oSoMoN> salut seb128
<seb128> lut oSoMoN, en forme ?
<oSoMoN> Ã§a va, et toi?
<seb128> Ã§a va !
<didrocks> hey seb128
<Laney> whats up
<seb128> lut didrocks, hey Laney
<duflu> Morning willcooke and Laney
<oSoMoN> good morning willcooke, Laney
<duflu> And good morning seb128
<seb128> hey duflu willcooke
<willcooke> hey seb128.  Do I remember you saying you would take a look at this one?  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libnfs/+bug/1746598
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1746598 in libnfs (Ubuntu Cosmic) "[MIR] libnfs" [Undecided,New]
<didrocks> hey Laney
<seb128> willcooke, Eric has been working on it and I told him I would help if needed, it's a bit complicated. If that's for bug triaging purpose I can do that
<willcooke> thx seb128, yes for tracking purposes
<seb128> willcooke, security team would prefer to have the new serie if we promote it, but that includes a soname change so it's non trivial
<Laney> hi seb128 duflu oSoMoN didrocks
<seb128> k, done
<duflu> Hmm still April 1st on Stack Overflow
<willcooke> oSoMoN, there is a huge openjdk upgrade bug open which has some LibreOffice tasks : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/saaj/+bug/1814133
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1814133 in virtualbox-hwe (Ubuntu Cosmic) "update to openjdk 11 in 18.04 LTS" [Undecided,New]
<willcooke> oSoMoN, is that on your list somewhere?  i.e. should I assign it to you?
<oSoMoN> willcooke, yes, that's under control: I backported a couple of patches to fix the build against the new openjdk, the updated packages are in bionic-proposed and should migrate to -updates soon
<oSoMoN> do_ko and t_daitx are overseeing the update
<willcooke> thx oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> you can assign the libreoffice tasks to me if you want (and if LP lets youâ¦)
<oSoMoN> updating such huge bug reports tends to timeout more often than not
<willcooke> indeed :D
<willcooke> duflu, re:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1803319 can I assign you on that one?  You already fixed it upstream, but it's targetted to a release and so either needs untargetting or an assignee
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1803319 in mutter (Ubuntu Disco) "GNOME Shell task bar menus not updated with external monitor primary and laptop screen fractionally scaled" [High,Triaged]
<duflu> willcooke, yes I was thinking the same and then forgot. That's the first time I've decided to unassign myself. The intention was to say that I won't be the one doing the 3.32.1 release which contains the fix
<duflu> Now assigned again
<willcooke> duflu, merci!
<duflu> willcooke, Jonas confirmed he expects there to be a 3.32.1 so I am assuming we will want to grab that in one go instead of patching each fix that it contains
<andyrock> monring all!
<andyrock> *morning
<duflu> moaning andyrock
<duflu> :)
<duflu> Also good morning
<andyrock> ð
<seb128> hey andyrock
<seb128> duflu, yeah, we are going to want to update, do you know when they plan to roll it out?
<duflu> seb128, I don't know anything more
<andyrock> hey seb128! did you have good holidays? :)
<duflu> Some gnome stuff is already at 3.32.1
<seb128> duflu, k, no worry, probably this week
<seb128> right
<seb128> andyrock, yes, excellent, thx!
<willcooke> duflu, cool, thanks.  (sorry was otp)_
<seb128> willcooke, did you see the comment on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-wallpapers/+bug/1819744 ?
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1819744 in ubuntu-wallpapers (Ubuntu) "19.04 Disco default wallpapers" [Undecided,Fix released]
<willcooke> The last one?  yeah, the wallpaper is slightly different for the grey one.  NFA as far as I'm concerned
<seb128> k, thx, I just wanted to make sure it was ok/expected
<willcooke> thx
<Laney> is the team meeting in 99 minutes or 159 minutes or 219 minutes?
<willcooke> Laney, 98 mins
<Laney> thx
<Laney> it is pinned to 14:30 UK time then?
<Laney> I'll ask the fridge calendar people to update it
<willcooke> Laney, yeah, looks like it's pinned to "United Kingdom Time"
<Laney> righto
<willcooke> https://imgur.com/a/xJKFUv5 \o/
<willcooke> Laney, do you use IPv6 generally?  And if so, have you seen any problems in Disco?
<willcooke> Laney, unping.  Seems there are general connectivity problems
<willcooke> with the archive
<Laney> doh
<Laney> but yes, most of the time
<willcooke> #startmeeting Desktop Team Meeting  2019-04-02
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Apr  2 13:29:49 2019 UTC.  The chair is willcooke. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/RHiGQXZJ/ubuntu-desktop-1904-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Meeting  2019-04-02 | Current topic:
<willcooke> Roll call: andyrock, didrocks, duflu (out), jbicha, jamesh (out), jibel, kenvandine, laney, oSoMoN, seb128, tkamppeter, trevinho, robert_ancell (out)
<kenvandine> \o
<oSoMoN>      o/
<didrocks> hey
<jibel> bonjour
<willcooke> We'll do the usual rls incoming bugs.  I already went through the tracking bugs and made sure they are all assigned etc.
<andyrock> o/
<willcooke> Let's start with B
<willcooke> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<willcooke> Nice, zero.
<willcooke> C:  http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-cc-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<willcooke> Also 0.
<willcooke> #winning
<willcooke> D: http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-dd-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<willcooke> we have some bugs to review  :)
<willcooke> First up:
<willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1815550
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1815550 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "[nvidia] gnome-shell RSS grows without limit, general slowness" [Critical,Confirmed]
<didrocks> we discussed it this morning. It's really making disco unusable
<didrocks> (nvidia drivers)
<willcooke> +1 to investigate.
<seb128> +1 for nominating/assigning
<didrocks> +1, duflu started to have a look
<willcooke> duflu seems like a good person to assign
<seb128> yes
<willcooke> ok, targetted and assigned
<willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1822478
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1822478 in mutter (Ubuntu) "[regression][nvidia] All on screen text is tiny. Icons are normal size but text is nearly unreadable." [High,Triaged]
<willcooke> +1 and already assigned to Trevinho
<didrocks> same, annoying regression due to scaling factor with nvidia, so +1
<seb128> wfm
<willcooke> done
<willcooke> next: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1822072
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1822072 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "User selector doesn't have focus from login screen after screen turned off" [Medium,Confirmed]
<willcooke> I logged this one.  It's a regression IMO.  But I'm interested to know if you think it's rls worthy or not.
<seb128> I would vote -1 from the steps
<seb128> but if that also happens when you lock the screen by keybinding so maybe that's a +1
<willcooke> I dont think it does effect lock screen
<seb128> I don't think the "wait on the lock screen" is that common of an usecase and while slightly annoying the workaround is obvious
<seb128> on the login screen*
<seb128> I vote -notfixing
<seb128> would still be worth reporting upstream/fixing if we can
<willcooke> kk, I'm happy with notfixing then
<willcooke> and I can upstream
<didrocks> same
<seb128> thx
<willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-initial-setup/+bug/1821901
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1821901 in gnome-initial-setup (Ubuntu) "Location services option should be off by default" [Undecided,New]
<willcooke> Legal team say this needs to be off by default.  So I think +1 on rls
<seb128> k, +1 if legal says so
<seb128> you can assign to me
<kenvandine> +1
<willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1821895
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1821895 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "Gnome Shell crashes after resume on Disco" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<willcooke> Seems to be wayland only.  So -1 for rls
<seb128> -notfixing
<seb128> it's lacking info, not confirmed and wayland only
<seb128> the report doesn't even state what release he's using
<seb128> ah, in the title
<seb128> still, almost no info and not impacting the default session
<willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-terminal/+bug/1821019
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1821019 in gnome-terminal (Ubuntu) "gnome-terminal does not gain focus upon launch via clicking icon" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<willcooke> I've got a feeling that duflu might have fixed this upstream
<seb128> yes
<oSoMoN> that one is really annoying
<seb128> it's a dup of bug #1817924
<ubot5`> bug 1817924 in mutter (Ubuntu Disco) "(In Xorg sessions only) apps launched from gnome shell do not get input focus" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1817924
<willcooke> Do we patch or wait for a point release upstream
<seb128> the fix has been commited upstream
<seb128> tarballs are due next week
<seb128> we might want to backport a fix fixes meanwhile, up to Trevinho/duflu I guess
<seb128> we can talk about that out of the meeting though
<willcooke> oki
<willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1821933
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1821933 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "Touch input is offset with two screens (even appearing on the wrong screen)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<willcooke> Another one of mine.  It doesnt affect Fedora.  +1 to work on this
<seb128> I would vote -notfixing
<seb128> I don't think using touch screen with 2 monitors is common
<willcooke> uh, that's a fair point
<seb128> touch support is already not great and we don't get lot of flack for it
<seb128> so I think our touch users number is low
<willcooke> any other votes?  Otherwise notfixing
<seb128> those who use docked is problem even lower
<didrocks> -notfixing as well for now
<kenvandine> -1
<willcooke> k, that's the end of the incoming bugs
<willcooke> As I said earlier, the unassigned tracking bugs are all clear.
<andyrock> maybe let's just add a trello card for it
<willcooke> andyrock, will do
<willcooke> Laney, anything in the proposed migrations you want to raise?
<Laney> nope
<willcooke> Cool
<willcooke> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/RHiGQXZJ/ubuntu-desktop-1904-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Meeting  2019-04-02 | Current topic: AOB
<willcooke> Anyone got anything?
<andyrock> nope
<willcooke> Oh, while I remember, jibel do you know how that backlight / blackscreen issue is going off hand?
<seb128> what issue is that?
<jibel> willcooke, it's going nowhere afaik
<willcooke> jibel,  do you have a bug number handy?
<jibel> i'ms searching
<willcooke> thx, I will follow up after the meeting then
<willcooke> anything else for anyone?
<willcooke> 1 min before I end the meeting
<seb128> not me
<oSoMoN> nothing here
<willcooke> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/RHiGQXZJ/ubuntu-desktop-1904-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Apr  2 13:54:44 2019 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2019/ubuntu-desktop.2019-04-02-13.29.moin.txt
<willcooke> thanks all
<didrocks> thx
<jibel> willcooke, bug 1821882
<ubot5`> bug 1821882 in linux (Ubuntu) "Screen is very dark and brightness cannot be adjusted" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1821882
<willcooke> thanks jibel
<willcooke> kk, I will poke Pierre to reply
<willcooke> and done
<seb128> willcooke, is there of any concern to us? the report states it already exist in bionic so not a new issue, also seems to be a video driver problem on a specific config...
<willcooke> I'd like that confirming by Pierre.  If it means that new machines (like that beefy Dell gaming laptop) get a black screen when trying to install, I'd love to see if fixed.  I'll see what t_jaalton says after Pierre has confirmed
<seb128> k
<seb128> willcooke, also is your touch coordinate bug happening only on the desktop view? or in other UI elements/apps?
<Trevinho> morning...
<seb128> hey trevinho
<seb128> just in time to miss the meeting :p
<willcooke> seb128, everything is offset, shell, window titles, etc
<Trevinho> seb128: hey...
<seb128> willcooke, that's new from disco?
<willcooke> seb128, yeah
<seb128> k
<Trevinho> yes I set the alarm, but I think I put the wrong tz in it ð­
<Trevinho> saw the backlog by the way. but starting next week it will be too early anyways (7 am)
<seb128> Laney, do you think you could skip the n-m/ppc64el failure? the current disco version has the same problem, it's not a regression from 1.16 in proposed
<Laney> seb128: see my comment on the card, I already did do that
<seb128> Laney, ah, I was not on this card/didn't see the comment before, I've just been trying to clean stuff from update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages today
<seb128> got cairo, pygobject and few others off :)
<seb128> Laney, thx!
<seb128> (it's still blocking migration but I guess we need to wait a bit longer?)
<seb128> the page refreshed 10 mins ago though...
<greyback> kenvandine: hey, with demise of remote desktop-helper, how should one use desktop helpers now? Copy/paste the yaml?
<greyback> I've not had to look into the topic in a while, hence being very out of date!
<kenvandine> greyback: yes, copy the yaml
<kenvandine> until we have the extension
<greyback> kenvandine: ack, thanks!
 * willcooke -> haircut
<willcooke> night all
<oSoMoN> good night
<seb128> andyrock, bdmurray was asking if bug #1807900 is still on your todolist (I guess it should be an easy change?)
<ubot5`> bug 1807900 in update-manager (Ubuntu Bionic) "update-manager suggests to use Livepatch, which is not available" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1807900
<andyrock> checking
<andyrock> yup thanks for reminding me that
<andyrock> :)
<seb128> andyrock, np! :)
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-04-03
<didrocks> good morning
<didrocks> thumper: thanks for splitting those utils package! I can hear Dave Cheney ghost telling "no utils package name please" :)
<didrocks> and hey btw ;)
<duflu> Morning didrocks
<duflu> Morning oSoMoN
<duflu> And morning seb128
<didrocks> hey duflu
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<oSoMoN> hey duflu, didrocks
<didrocks> hey oSoMoN
<thumper> didrocks: hey
<thumper> didrocks: yeah Dave Cheney was also echoing in my ears
<thumper> we still have work to do, but slowly slowly
<seb128> lut didrocks oSoMoN, en forme ?
<oSoMoN> salut seb128, la forme et toi?
<willcooke> morning all
<willcooke> Ohh fun start to the day...  I can see the lock screen behind the desktop today :)
<duflu> willcooke, prize for the prettiest wrongness
<willcooke> :)
<willcooke> I was fiddling with PPAs, so it's probably me
<Laney> yo
<seb128> oSoMoN, en forme !
<seb128> hey willcooke
<oSoMoN> good morning willcooke & Laney
<seb128> willcooke, you are on a strike to find bugs this week
<willcooke> It's a lot more fun than spreadsheets and docs
<willcooke> :)
<didrocks> salut seb128, Ã§a va, et toi ?
<didrocks> heu willcooke? Laney
<seb128> Ã§a va !
<Laney> hey oSoMoN didrocks
<tjaalton> Trevinho: hi, remind me again, which patch should be added to xserver for the hidpi support? the bug doesn't say
<willcooke> jibel, what was the final state of the open-vmware-tools package auto-install?  Did it all land?
<seb128> willcooke, the trello card suggests it did
<andyrock> good morning all! :)
<seb128> hey andyrock!
<oSoMoN> good morning andyrock
<jibel> willcooke, everything landed, the only remaining bit is a release of ubiquity
<willcooke> jibel, woot!  Could you update this bug?  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/open-vm-tools/+bug/1790427  vmware are asking
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1790427 in open-vm-tools (Ubuntu) "Automatically install open-vm-tools when installer running in a VMware VM" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<jibel> willcooke, this was the bug for server. The bug for desktop with the FFe is bug 1819207
<ubot5`> bug 1819207 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Disco) "[FFe] Add Modaliases to open-vm-tools-desktop to allow automatic installation by ubuntu-drivers" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1819207
<seb128> tjaalton, from IRC log he said
<seb128> <Trevinho>	seb128, tjaalton: actually we can just ship https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/merge_requests/80.patch which is smaller
<gitbot> xorg issue (Merge request) 80 in xserver "xfree86: Reset transforms in xf86CrtcCloseScreen" [Closed]
<seb128> tjaalton, he's current in south america so not going to be up before some hours
<willcooke> jibel, ohhh!  I see it now.  thank you!
<jibel> willcooke, I added a comment on the server bug to point to the FFe
<willcooke> jibel, and you already commented - thanks!
<tjaalton> seb128: ah, thanks
<seb128> tjaalton, we should probably get that in now that we got the scaling work landed
<tjaalton> I'm preparing an upload
<willcooke> Do you guys agree with my conclusion here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/desktop-base/+bug/1819421
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1819421 in desktop-base (Ubuntu) "Pop-up memu is not normal when right-click on desktop with disco-desktop-amd64.iso daily build" [Undecided,Invalid]
<didrocks> willcooke: I guess the issue that the user is pointing is that you have two separators one on top of each other
<oSoMoN> willcooke, in the screenshot, there are two separators below the first entry in the menu, I think that's what the bug is
<didrocks> which is looking weird
<oSoMoN> IÂ can reproduce locally, the first time the context menu is shown
<didrocks> ok, not alone thinking that :)
<didrocks> yep
<oSoMoN> after it's hidden and shown again, the second separator is gone
<didrocks> right
<willcooke> ohhhhh
<willcooke> wow
<willcooke> good spot
<willcooke> ha, and now I can the menu stuck open and I can't close it
<duflu> Hmm there are two open upstream bugs for that kind of thing...
<duflu> Maybe related: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-shell/issues/1051 and https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-shell/issues/724
<gitbot> GNOME issue 1051 in gnome-shell "Big gaps in app menus" [Opened]
<gitbot> GNOME issue 724 in gnome-shell "GNOME 3.30.1 Menus not updating." [Opened]
<duflu> And if you're using multiple monitors then also https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-shell/issues/1049 would explain it
<gitbot> GNOME issue 1049 in gnome-shell "Top bar menu is badly rendered" [Closed]
<seb128> willcooke, btw, I just tried your multimonitor/touch coordinate being off issue, it doesn't happen on wayland session for me but it does under x11
<willcooke> seb128, wayland is better for me, but not perfect
<seb128> willcooke, you said you had it under wayland on Ubuntu? (but not on fedora)
<seb128> I couldn't see an issue on wayland, I can click on the launcher, click on desktop icon, move by the titlebar
<willcooke> seb128, correct, Fedora works fine.  Let me try on Wayland....
<seb128> I was trying to rule out a distro issue
<seb128> to me wayland looks fine on Ubuntu
<seb128> would be nice if you can test again just to confirm it's not the case for you
<seb128> oSoMoN, you commented on that g-c-c/region/input by win bug yesterday, does it mean you work on it/plan to upstream? I was going to send it upstream but I don't want to step on your feet
<oSoMoN> seb128, I was going to file an upstream bug and ping Robert since this is code he wrote, he would know how to fix it
<duflu> oSoMoN, did you say RH are shipping a smaller vaapi patch than Intel, and it works?!
<oSoMoN> duflu, yes, last time IÂ tested it it seemed to work
<willcooke> seb128, in Wayland now... I don't get a "drag" on the desktop, and touch is very intermittent.  Generally works a bit on the left of the screen, but the right hand side is not working.  When I drag a window from the left to the right, when it gets to nearly half way (maybe 3/4s) then the window suddenly jumps to the right
<willcooke> seb128, my set up is laptop on the left, monitor on the right
<willcooke> if that makes any difference
<duflu> willcooke, that's not still using the PPA right?
<willcooke> duflu, ohh
<duflu> Yeah I thought the PPA might do something like that
<oSoMoN> duflu, IIRC the intel patch was much bigger (and harder to maintain) because they tried hard to have the feature disabled by default and hidden behind a feature flag, whereas the fedora patch doesn't care and just enables it.
<willcooke> yeah, I have the PPA installed still (the second one).  One sec...
<oSoMoN> seb128, I'll file that upstream bug in a moment
<duflu> Sounds like it's literally half working, which was my suspicion
<seb128> oSoMoN, thx, upstream+Robert sounds good, thx for handling it!
<seb128> duflu, did you upstream that coordinate one?
<seb128> we should probably
<duflu> seb128, what, the touchscreen patch?
<duflu> No on that one because it's definitely wrong
<seb128> no, the bug
<duflu> seb128, I think Will did already
<seb128> it's an upstream issue/worth forwarding to gitlab no?
<seb128> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mutter/+bug/1821933 has no upstream bug reference
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1821933 in mutter (Ubuntu) "Touch input is offset with two screens (even appearing on the wrong screen)" [Undecided,Triaged]
<duflu> seb128, yeah sorry Will upstreamed a different bug. I would prefer one of you who experience the bug to describe it upstream though
<seb128> willcooke, ^ can you do that?
<willcooke> I don't think this touch issue is an upstream one, since it works on Fedora?
<duflu> Weird
<seb128> willcooke, for me it works under wayland, did you try x11 on fedora?
<duflu> Must be a different coordinate translation path
<duflu> willcooke, do you have the synaptics driver installed for X11?
<willcooke> seb128, Ah, I see.  No I didnt.  I will try that
<seb128> thx
<seb128> willcooke, which is why I was making you test wayland again on Ubuntu
<seb128> willcooke, to me it looks like x11 session specific, so doesn't impact default fedora
<seb128> also it works fine on disco/wayland here with the inspiron
<seb128> (no ppa in use ;)
<willcooke> duflu, no synaptics installed
<willcooke> How do I remove the mutter package this ppa installed and get back to the normal one?  Just remove it and reinstall?
<duflu> willcooke, ppa-purge
<duflu> followed by Tab and autocompletion will give you the rest :)
<willcooke> seb128, nah - touch is screwed up on Wayland on Ubuntu too
<willcooke> I'll make a video to try and demo
<seb128> k
<seb128> well wfm
<duflu> I can't remember if touchscreens use libinput or evdev directly
<seb128> also sounds like duflu found some issue with the code
<seb128> I would upstream it anyway
<willcooke> I'll swap the screen position around and see
<seb128> or maybe try fedora/x11 if you can just to make sure it works there
<duflu> Yeah half the screen working is roughly what I expected with that hack
<duflu> There's not enough knowledge in the patch about which screens are touch and their placement to do it properly right now
<duflu> But with more work and wiring it might be possible
<willcooke> hm
<willcooke> xev isnt seeing anything
<willcooke> (in wayland)
<willcooke> it is seeing mouse and kbd
<willcooke> maybe my laptop is dead
<duflu> willcooke, that's for high level X events. You want evtest
<willcooke> diing
<willcooke> dieing
<duflu> evtest for kernel events
<willcooke> ah kk, so yeah touch events are being generated
<willcooke> I will reinstall Disco first
<oSoMoN> seb128, https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-control-center/issues/440
<gitbot> GNOME issue 440 in gnome-control-center ""Region & Language > Input Source Options > Allow different sources for each window" doesn't take effect" [Opened]
<seb128> oSoMoN, thx!
<willcooke> disco ISO is back below 2GB again
<seb128> weird :/
<willcooke> what did we remove :))
<seb128> what did we loose this time?
<willcooke> lol
<seb128> willcooke, can you trello import bug #1822775?
<ubot5`> bug 1822775 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "Different input sources per window not work" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1822775
<seb128> it's one for Robert to comment on, he added the bug
<seb128> he likes his work to be in the trello :p
<willcooke> done: https://trello.com/c/fOjJE2am/302-bug1822775-different-input-sources-per-window-not-work
<seb128> thx!
<willcooke> np
<seb128> bah
<seb128> bug #1822846
<ubot5`> bug 1822846 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "Icon disappears from favorites bar/launcher in gnome-shell 3.32" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1822846
<seb128> new GNOME version, new bugs :/
<duflu> seb128, AFAIK that's the upstream dock only, not Ubuntu dock
<seb128> ah
<seb128> duflu, thx, title updated (and untagged, I don't think it qualify for rls bugs if the launcher doesn't have the issue)
<duflu> And if you find the right blank space it is still clickable :)
<willcooke> seb128, @ ISO size.  I think it's just the website reporting it differently.  GNOME Disks says it's 2.1GB
<seb128> willcooke, k, makes sense
 * duflu glares at the 1.44MB floppies still unsorted on the shelf
<willcooke> I ordered a USB floppy drive this week :)
<duflu> I should do that. The problem is I don't have a drive any more
<willcooke> But, interesting story, it actually reads the disk and then presents it to the OS as a USB mass storage device.  So you can't do any low level floppy operations, like mounting Acorn ADFS disks :(
<seb128> would be interesting to know if it still works/have a proper icon etc on Ubuntu :)
<seb128> ah
<seb128> that's going to fail to test that then
<duflu> Hmm, no more /dev/fd?
<willcooke> I'll see if I can find a PC formatted disk.  I bet there is one in the loft then
<seb128> :)
<willcooke> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/USB-Portable-3-5-External-Floppy-Disk-Drive-1-44Mb-Data-Storage-For-PC-Laptop/151974163614?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649
<willcooke> thats the one I ordered
<willcooke> seb128, duflu: having reinstalled Disco touch in Wayland *is* a lot better.  Tracks properly now by the looks of it.  I can't touch on desktop icons, which is a different bug, but I can move windows etc properly
<willcooke> now to test x on Fedora
<duflu> willcooke, thanks yeah I feared X11 and Wayland had different code paths
<willcooke> well, that was hard work.
<willcooke> seb128, as you predicted.  Touch is broken on Fedora Xorg too.  I'll log upstream.
<seb128> willcooke, thx :)
<seb128> glad it's not distro specific
<willcooke> k, upstream bug logged too.  Food time.
<willcooke> https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-shell/issues/1136
<gitbot> GNOME issue 1136 in gnome-shell "Touch input is offset in Xorg sessions with multiple monitors in 3.32" [Opened]
<seb128> willcooke, thx, enjoy lunch!
<willcooke> seb128, known and fixed upstream
<willcooke> https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/issues/514
<gitbot> GNOME issue 514 in mutter "Touchscreen input layer no longer follows screen rotation in X11 (regression)" [5. Backend: X11, 5. Input, Closed]
<seb128> willcooke, woot, well done :)
<Beret> has anyone else experienced https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pulseaudio/+bug/1822881 ?
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1821663 in linux (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1822881 [regression][snd_hda_codec_realtek] repeating crackling noise after 19.04 upgrade" [High,Confirmed]
<Beret> oh, n/m
<Beret> the bug was updated and I missed it
<kenvandine> not me
<kenvandine> Beret: looks like they are on top of that bug
<Beret> yep
<Beret> thanks
<kenvandine> np
<Trevinho> morning..
<willcooke> hi Trevinho
<Trevinho> and seb128 thanks for poinring it out to tjaalton
<Trevinho> hi willcooke
<seb128> hey trevinho, how are you?
<Trevinho> good, good :). Thanks seb128. you?
<seb128> I'm good :)
<didrocks> hey Trevinho
<willcooke> kenvandine, remember "only keep two versions of the snap by default on the desktop" - that was no further action on us because it's the default now, right?
<kenvandine> willcooke: right
<willcooke> woot
<willcooke> seb128, ^
<willcooke> thanks kenvandine
<seb128> great!
<seb128> thx willcooke, kenvandine
<willcooke> Beret, certainly sounds like a power saving issue (and we expected there to be some sound cards which needed blacklisting).  It would be helpful if you could confirm if your soundcard matches the ids that were added to the blacklist.  If not, then I think we should capture your IDs in that bug as well and get them added.
<seb128> Beret, willcooke, to test without power saving add 'snd_hda_intel.power_save=0' to the kernel line in grub
<tjaalton> Trevinho: I've uploaded it, along with another crash fix
<Trevinho> tjaalton: cool thanks
<Beret> seb128, willcooke - yeah, I did the work around with the options snd-hda-intel power_save=0
<Beret> and that took care of it so it's definitely the kernel thing
<kenvandine> Beret: great
<oSoMoN> good evening all
 * willcooke heads out as well
<willcooke> night
<sarnold> nn
<sarnold> haha! I actually got in in time :)
<brlin> I would like to ask if here's the proper place to ask question regarding the generation of the desktop images?
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-04-04
<didrocks> good morning
<jibel> Salut didrocks
<didrocks> salut jibel
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<didrocks> salut oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks
<duflu> Morning didrocks, jibel, oSoMoN
<didrocks> hey duflu
<brlin> Can anyone review https://github.com/ubuntu/snapcraft-desktop-helpers/pull/181 ?
<gitbot> ubuntu issue (Pull request) 181 in snapcraft-desktop-helpers "Only set QT_QPA_PLATFORMTHEME to appmenu-qt5 if it is not set by other value (or unset)" [Open]
<oSoMoN> hey duflu
<brlin> oSoMoN: Thanks a bunch!
<oSoMoN> you're welcome
<willcooke> good morning
<duflu> Hi willcooke
<willcooke> afternoon duflu, how goes?
<duflu> willcooke, just back from the physio so good so far... You?
<willcooke> c.c.c.c.c.cold
<willcooke> It was minus 1 last night
<duflu> Hmm, wrong season?
<willcooke> 2 weeks ago it was 20 during the day
<duflu> It's only just cool enough to open all the windows during the day now. Hope it lasts
<duflu> Oh, the forecast suggests it won't
<oSoMoN> good morning willcooke
<willcooke> hi oSoMoN
<Laney> hi
<didrocks> hey willcooke, Laney
<duflu> Hi Laney
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<duflu> Morning seb128
<seb128> (in the train part of the day today so IRC might not be very stable)
<didrocks> hey seb128
<willcooke> hi Laney didrocks seb128
<Laney> hello didrocks duflu seb128 willcooke
<Laney> what's up
<duflu> Clouds. We have clouds. That's new
<Laney> cirrostratus?
<duflu> Not sure
<duflu> I think the big one is Amazon?
<willcooke> lulz
<duflu> Surprisingly I just found I wasn't subscribed to mutter bugs
<willcooke> h
<willcooke> ha
<duflu> But I was tracking and reporting their number weekly so knew it wasn't bad
<oSoMoN> hey Laney, salut seb128
<seb128> lut oSoMoN, en forme aujourd'hui ?
<oSoMoN> Ã§a va, et toi?
<seb128> Ã§a va bien !
<seb128_> lunch/changing train, bbiab
<Trevinho> morningg
<oSoMoN> good morning Trevinho
<seb128> good morning Marco
<seb128> how are you?
<didrocks> hey Trevinho
<Trevinho> hi didrocks and oSoMoN..
<Trevinho> while seb went away...
<Trevinho> I was invited for a coffee in the house and apparently was enough to miss him xD
<Trevinho> willcooke: hey, can you maybe edit https://community.ubuntu.com/t/x11-hidpi-scaling-available-for-testing-on-disco/ again removing the ppa informations and mentioning that it's in disco?
<willcooke> sure can
<Trevinho> thanks
<seb128> Trevinho, you are asking willcooke to edit my post? how dare you :)
<seb128> joke aside you could also ask me :p
<Trevinho> seb128: yez, I apparently I didn't see you popping up again in the channel :P
<Trevinho> as I've disabled the join/parts for this one it seems+
<seb128> trevinho, sorry I'm in a train for yet another 1.5 hours or so, flacky IRC but emails work :)
<seb128> willcooke, ^ I can edit the post if you prefer
<willcooke> I did it
<willcooke> kinda
<willcooke> :)
<Trevinho> I ensure you that I'm not in a train but the same applies, but email doesn't work without VPN xD
<Trevinho> well personal does
<Trevinho> but google apps aren't available here, one of the few things really blocked.
<seb128> ha
<Trevinho> didrocks: since you're affected by that nvidia issue since the scaling stuff landed, can you help me to identify some problems?
<Trevinho> as I've only prime gpu here which seems to behave differently
<Trevinho> didrocks: as simplest thing, if you could run again the version from ppa (https://launchpad.net/~3v1n0/+archive/ubuntu/mutter-x11-fractional-scaling) which has lots of debug bits, and then give me the `journalctl /usr/bin/gnome-shell -b` for that
<didrocks> Trevinho:sure, I can give you the logs tomorrow morning first thing!
<didrocks> wrapping up and rebooting a vm has never been that exciting :)
<Trevinho> didrocks: cool, thanks
<Trevinho> didrocks: as per the issue it happens in xorg with proper nvidia card using nvidia drivers, right?
<Trevinho> and if you can also test nouveau... would be super :)
<didrocks> Trevinho: it's an optimus machine
<didrocks> I'm using nvidia drivers
<seb128> (I'm back on a stable internet now btw)
<didrocks> we got a successful boot!
<didrocks> but now, in front of gdm, without passwords for users :p
<Trevinho> didrocks: mh, weird... cause I've also optimus and I'm using drivers right now, but... I'm getting different output... Like the screen doesn't scale properly. That's why I want blacklist nvidia
<Trevinho> didrocks: something you can give me now (probably) is the output of `nvidia-settings -q all` though :)
<didrocks> Trevinho: http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/r8Xrk8y29d/
<Trevinho> thanks
<didrocks> Trevinho: the mutter version in the ppa is older than dsitro
<didrocks> Trevinho:it the code really the same with +debug?
<Trevinho> didrocks: yeah
<didrocks> should I update xorg as well?
<Trevinho> didrocks: more or less, nothing really different in temrs of functionality
<Trevinho> xorg isn't needed
<didrocks> Trevinho: hum, but not the same code, right? :p
<didrocks> maybe some bugs were introduced in between with the cleanup
<didrocks> and we won't spot it
<didrocks> I downgraded, let's reboot now
<didrocks> Trevinho: this is the log from boot to login: http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/Mdqx5QDCyq/
<didrocks> Trevinho: this is the log after login, when I go to g-c-c -> display -> set to 200% -> restore default (which restores to the correct size): http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/xTpbghqmsc/
<seb128> tkamppeter, congrats on getting that gtk fix merged :)
<tkamppeter> seb128, thanks, they have a lot of code policy stuff.
<Trevinho> seb128: fyi, I've done some more nvidia testings both locally (where initially the fractional thing didn't work, then after few reboots it started working :o), and with Alberto... He didn't spot issues on his nv hardware. As for the Didier regression I neither him can reproduce, I've some ideas but honestly I see all protected by checks, so I expect is something else (pre-existent) which in some way is now more triggered
<seb128> Trevinho, k, good to know. Does it work for Didier now?
<Trevinho> seb128: no, still I'm playing with it...
<seb128> Trevinho, k
<seb128> Trevinho, get Didier to sponsor your fix tomorrow though :)
<Trevinho> seb128: ok
<seb128> trevinho, might be best to email him at your eod so he has time to look at it before you wake up
<Trevinho> good
<willcooke> night all
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-04-05
<didrocks> good morning
 * didrocks reboot in a single monitor for Trevinho
<didrocks> duflu: FYI, I rebooted without drm modeset=1 for nvidia. Let's see if I trigger slowness/freeze, but for now, nothing
<didrocks> the scaling issue is still here though
<duflu> didrocks, please also check you don't have something busily writing to the journal. Because journal flushing also happens every 5 seconds and will freeze a program
<duflu> Morning didrocks :)
<didrocks> duflu: hey! Well, possibly related to io. It's mostly when I'm opening/closing apps
<didrocks> (most of the time, not necessary a rule)
<duflu> didrocks, If you have a HDD LED to look at then that helps :)
<duflu> Also strace
<didrocks> duflu: unsure what to strace?
<duflu> didrocks, write or fsync calls etc
<didrocks> yeah, but which prog?
<duflu> didrocks, gnome-shell maybe? But yeah it could be anything if kernel journal flushing is the issue
<didrocks> and the question, is why it started for RAOF and I when it was ok beforehand and it seems it doesn't happen without drm modeset=1
<didrocks> but my journal doesn't file up
<didrocks> like, nothing is spamming it
<RAOF> didrocks: Nah, it happens for me with nvidia_drm.modeset=0
<didrocks> RAOF: argh, maybe it sounded only better here :/
<duflu> That's fine. Unfortunately I'm being harassed in upstream work so I'll have to get to this bug next week
<didrocks> final freeze is next Thursday
<duflu> Unless I have a particularly lucky Friday
<didrocks> I don't think we can release with this, with a very small portion of testing, we have already 2 users with it
<RAOF> Yeah, no disc IO for me.
<didrocks> so I don't want to imagine at scale :/
<didrocks> RAOF: just got one without disc IO?
<duflu> Still, it involves me changing and configuring new hardware. I will get to it ASAP
<RAOF> didrocks: Mine have *never* involved disc IO, as far as I can tell.
<didrocks> RAOF: I didn't look at that really hard, I was used to disc IO issue at unity times, but that was another machinie
<didrocks> machine*
<RAOF> ```
<RAOF> Apr 05 17:21:32 Behemoth gnome-shell[2390]: Couldnât parse steam.desktop as a desktop file, will treat it as a regular file.
<RAOF> Apr 05 17:21:33 Behemoth gnome-shell[2390]: Couldnât parse examples.desktop as a desktop file, will treat it as a regular file.
<RAOF> ```
<RAOF> That's rather interesting, though.
<RAOF> I get those two lines each time I hit enter in the terminal.
<didrocks> terminal, like alt+F2? or gnome-terminal?
<RAOF> Or, rather, each time I cause a zsh prompt to be displayed.
<didrocks> (nothing here, all my desktop files should be correct)
<didrocks> waow
<didrocks> don't know why it makes the shell reloading the desktop files
<RAOF> So, for some reason, displaying a zsh prompt triggers gnome-shell to try and reparse a bunch of desktop files?
<didrocks> I guess you have those 2 in your favorite-apps gsettings key? ^
<RAOF> I shouldn't?
<didrocks> just to know if it tries to parse the content of favorites-apps or all desktop files
<didrocks> (examples.desktop is weird, I don't think we ever supported it in the shell)
<didrocks> but I may be wrong
<didrocks> RAOF: so, if your steam.desktop is the upstream one, I just added it to favorites-apps and have bash displaying the login prompt multiples times
<didrocks> no spam for me in the journal
<duflu> In case you guys have different bugs I will focus on RAOF's descriptions for now
<RAOF> Yeah, it's only in zsh.
<RAOF> Only in zsh.
<didrocks> RAOF: do you have the slowness only when you press enter in zsh?
<didrocks> like, it never happened when you started an app from the launcher?
<didrocks> (that was my main use-case, start an app, everything frozen but a duplicated cursor that I can move for 5 s)
<RAOF> I do not see the problem when launching an app from the launcher.
<didrocks> argh, so maybe different issuesâ¦
<RAOF> I *do* recall having the pauses trigger from ways other than having a zsh prompt displayed (not just <enter>, but returning from a nvim session, ctrl-C, starting a terminal) but the pause-on-zsh is just *so* obvious and easy to trigger it rather overwhelms everything else.
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<oSoMoN> and happy Friday!
<didrocks> RAOF: I have this happening mostly on cold session boot
<didrocks> like the first apps I'm launching
<didrocks> then, it's at $RANDOM time
<didrocks> happy Friday oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks
<duflu> Morning oSoMoN
<duflu> RAOF: I can only think of title bar text that the text shell can affect in the graphical shell
<duflu> afk for a bit
<RAOF> Removing examples.desktop and steam.desktop (from ~, which for some reason gnome-shell is scanning for desktop files?!) does not eliminate the pauses (but does eliminate the journal entries, funnily enough âº)
<oSoMoN> hey duflu
<duflu> RAOF: Is the bug still Nvidia-specific?
<duflu> Can you tell?
<RAOF> Yes
<RAOF> duflu: I guess it might just be specific to my NVIDIA machine.
<duflu> Yeah
<duflu> RAOF: Also what driver version are you on now?
<RAOF> I could try turning on hybrid in the BIOS and seeing if it also happens with Intel if I can get it to use the Intel card.
<RAOF> 418. It doesn't help â¹ï¸
<duflu> I think mutter likes that... providing the LCD is connected to Intel
<RAOF> 418
<duflu> Heh. Gitlab is dead. I can definitely ignore upstream issues now
<RAOF> The LCD is connected to the Intel in hybrid mode.
<RAOF> The trick is getting things to use mesa ð
<duflu> RAOF: Do you have a custom prompt at all?
<RAOF> Yes, but I've tried it without and it still triggers.
 * RAOF  is still unclear how the zsh prompt can hang gnome-shell
<duflu> RAOF: You're sure it happens with gnome-terminal too? Not just qterminal?
<RAOF> Yes. I usuallyuse gnome-terminal;I just tested in qterminal to work out if it was a gnome-terminal bug.
<duflu> One slight problem with testing video cards now; my desktop is too small to close if one is installed :)
<duflu> RAOF: I have one remaining concern before you fade into the night -- the assumption that poor performance is related to the memory usage. Sounds plausible but I also know of other serious Nvidia performance issues that appear over time. I wonder if we can make the bug just about memory to clarify that?
<RAOF> Sure, feel free to split of the âgnome-shell hangs for 5s each time I got enter in a terminalâ bug ð
<duflu> RAOF: No that's the third problem you reported in the same bug :)
<duflu> I was already going to split that
<duflu> There being performance problems are a concern, but if we were to fix the memory usage and not fix the performance problems, I don't want that to block the bug, waiting on multiple fixes
<RAOF> Oh, I think that is the performance problem.
<duflu> Yes, probably. But the first problem you reported was memory usage
<RAOF> Right
<duflu> I completely agree some part of 10GB RSS would hurt the system but it might not be the only hurt
<duflu> I'm working on a few serious Nvidia performance issues upstream
<RAOF> To be clear, I think the âgeneral sluggishnessâ I reported is the âpress enter and wait 5sâ.
<duflu> OK
<duflu> So we hope that is related to the memory usage, but if not then the bug needs splitting
<duflu> I am now back on Nvidia.
<duflu> It's definitely started bigger
<duflu> But that's nothing new
<RAOF> Yes.
<duflu> So far my gnome-shell on Nvidia with zsh has only shrunken and 1% CPU when busy :/
<willcooke> morning all, happy Friday!
<duflu> Morning willcooke
<duflu> RAOF: In case you're still around... it appears the desktop-icons gnome-shell extension actively monitors all desktop files. Can you tell if any are changing?
<duflu> Even in metadata?
<Laney> hi
<duflu> Hi Laney
<willcooke> afternoon duflu, morning Laney
<RAOF> duflu: I don't know why any would be changing. Nothing I'm doing *should* be modifying desktop files.
<duflu> RAOF: Possibly even the metadata of ~ ?
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> happy friday!
<RAOF> There will be frequent writes to a file in ~
<duflu> Morning seb128
<Laney> hi duflu willcooke seb128
<duflu> RAOF: How about this?; gnome-shell-extension-desktop-icons reacts to all metadata changes. That includes to your home directory. And the home directory's metadata changes every time zsh writes to ~/.zsh_history
<seb128> hey RAOF duflu Laney
<seb128> ups
<duflu> We missed you
<seb128> duflu, why is it not monitoring ~/Desktop only? bug?
<seb128> :)
<RAOF> duflu: that's quite plausible
<duflu> seb128, because ~ is visible on the desktop :)
<duflu> The icon with your name on it
<seb128> well that doesn't require monitor tis content though?
<seb128> I guess it would easy enough to disable that extension and see if that makes a performance difference
<didrocks> hey seb128, willcooke, Laney
<seb128> lut didrocks, bon vendredi Ã  toi! :)
<didrocks> merci, toi aussi :p
<duflu> seb128, we can't disable or uninstall it :(
<duflu> Only turn off some icons
<seb128> well you can install gnome-session and log into a GNOME vanilla session to see if it's an issue there
<duflu> Also I can't reproduce the bug still, so testing is still hard
<seb128> and even enable the ubuntu launcher there
<duflu> It appears indeed only zsh commands trigger changes to the ~ metadata
<didrocks> so, sounds like my perf issue is unrelated
<duflu> didrocks, yeah but please do open a bug. I might know it already
<didrocks> duflu: I want to confirm that I don't have it anymore without drm modeset
<didrocks> which sounds to be the case so far
<duflu> Oh, actually I still have that OFF
 * duflu enables it
<didrocks> I got it so often (like every 10 minutes) that not having it in ~2h is weird
<didrocks> ah ofc, can't open the bug with ubuntu-bug right now as I'm running the scaling factor debug mutter version which isn't the one in the archiveâ¦
<duflu> didrocks, please open a new bug. Even RAOF is reporting potentially multiple different issues in that one bug
<didrocks> yep
<oSoMoN> good morning willcooke, seb128
<duflu> Weird. My Xorg sessions can't start with nvidia-drm.modeset=1. Only Wayland works
<seb128> lut oSoMoN, happy friday! how are you?
<seb128> didrocks, when did the issue start for you?
<oSoMoN> seb128, I'm good (although a bit tired, but hey, it's Friday!), you?
<seb128> same! :)
<didrocks> seb128: hard to say, it became more and more important (like it was once a day before)
<didrocks> seb128: I bet with the new GNOME stack, but I would need to bisect if we can't find it anymore
<didrocks> duflu: yeah, this is another upstream bug
<didrocks> duflu: which was investigated but never resolved
<didrocks> you have to blacklist their blacklist
<duflu> Ugh. And moving the mouse on nvidia requires 45% CPU. It's only 10% on Intel
<seb128> is the picker mp going anywhere or still more discussions/arguing?
<seb128> we might want to distro patch that next cycle if that doesn't land upstream
<duflu> seb128, it's bug free and all discussions resolved. But no current activity
<duflu> Interesting Nvidia is so much worse. I might need to profile that for new problems
<duflu> Oh. No I don't need to. It's the software cursor. That's the difference. So 45% CPU is about expected
<duflu> Not good, but not surprising
<didrocks> duflu: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mutter/+bug/1823301
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1823301 in mutter (Ubuntu) "Shell hangs up at random times" [Undecided,New]
<duflu> Yay
<didrocks> I'll update the bug if I get it again with drm modeset=1
<didrocks> oupss
<didrocks> modeset=0
<didrocks> I meant
<duflu> Thanks
<seb128> didrocks, did Trevinho email you about sponsoring his recent fixes today btw?
<didrocks> seb128: you meant "fix" not "fixes"?
<didrocks> seb128: I was wondering if that worth it, it's only rotating the screen, which is less important than the other fixes, correct?
<didrocks> like not having a proper scaling on boot, which he's going to work on
<didrocks> so I guess aiming an upload on Monday with both?
<seb128> https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/ubuntu/+source/mutter/+git/mutter/+merge/365502
<seb128> yeah, monday is probably fine
<duflu> didrocks, unfortunately rotating the screen is the most popular duplicate reported
<duflu> in the xrandr-scaling tagged bugs
<didrocks> duflu: 2 duplicates?
<duflu> Yeah still true :)
<duflu> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=xrandr-scaling
<didrocks> sounds less a main use case that not having the correct scaling at boot?
<duflu> That's very true. Might not be statistically significant numbers yet
<didrocks> let's seeâ¦
<seb128> I had the impression that Marco said that the fix could resolve some other problems
<seb128> also unsure he's able to reproduce/going to fix the on-boot issue by monday
<duflu> Yeah the number of fixes required is definitely going to be shorter than the above bug list
<seb128> but we can still upload what we have on monday
<didrocks> seb128: do we consider releasing disco without fixing that bug?
<seb128> I've no idea how many users are impacted
<seb128> that some nvidia only right?
<didrocks> right
<seb128> it would be best to fix but I wouldn't consider it as a blocker
<didrocks> ok, so I'll have to reinstall bionic
<seb128> it get less reports that the screen rotate one :p
<didrocks> I thought the FFe was under the consideration that no obvious regression?
<didrocks> for scaling factor
<didrocks> sounds crazy to have to argue on that, shrugh
<seb128> seems like you are strongly in favor of considering it as a blocker
<didrocks> I thought the "high" importance reflected it?
<seb128> was anyone able to reproduce
<jibel> there are not enough users of disco to get lot of report about the nvidia issue
<seb128> or are the only one who saw the issue so far?
<jibel> it's critical to me
<didrocks> seb128: at least 2 persons
<jibel> the system is unusable
<didrocks> which is 2 less than rotating the screen, agreed :p
<seb128> :)
<didrocks> still 50%
<seb128> did you try if the screen rotate one helps?
<duflu> Aha! I wonder if that explains why I can't log into Xorg sessions now I use Nvidia-DRM
<seb128> I think Marco said it could impact on other problems
<didrocks> seb128: I didn't, Marco didn't tell this could be related
<didrocks> but as I have to reboot, not before EOD
<seb128> I'm not sure if it is
<seb128> k
<seb128> let's wait for him to be online
<didrocks> yeah
<seb128> but yeah, I think either we consider a blocker or not depends of who is impacted
<seb128> if it's all nvidia users it's one for sure
<seb128> but I was under the impression that Daniel and Marco couldn't reproduce
<seb128> which hints it's not all nvidia
<didrocks> nvidia + multiple monitors maybe
<seb128> we are missing data at this point
<didrocks> one monitor is ok
<didrocks> which was another test I spent time on
<seb128> k
<seb128> and there is an easy workaround iirc?
<didrocks> alt-f2 + r
<didrocks> or go to g-c-c
<didrocks> change the scaling to 200%
<seb128> k
<didrocks> and revert
<didrocks> on each boot
<didrocks> which I guess most users won't be able to spot
<willcooke> Is this issue only when you enable the gsettings key, or all the time?
<didrocks> all the time
<didrocks> without the gsettings key enabled
<willcooke> got it
<seb128> and drm-modeset makes a difference?
<didrocks> nope
<didrocks> it seems to only benefits on the hang up for me
<seb128> k, weird that Marco doesn't reproduce
<didrocks> I guess he didn't try with 2 monitors ?
<seb128> duflu, did you try nvidia on dual monitor? do you see that scaling issue?
<seb128> I've no nvidia hardware so I can't test
<didrocks> I guess we can script to alt-f2 +r unconditionnally on user login :p
<seb128> I should maybe get some at some point, testing on nvidia keeps being an issue
<duflu> seb128, not there yet but I have the hardware in hand to test all today
<willcooke> I'll see if I can bring something back from Taipei
<seb128> willcooke, thx
<seb128> didrocks, but yeah, let's try to get it fixed anyway, would be best
<didrocks> I hope so, at least, it's not a LTS but I guess if we confirm that it's for all nvidia users with multiple monitors, it's bad
<didrocks> especially as the FFe was acked on the fact that there is no regression spotted
<seb128> yes, as said if that's the case then yes I agree it's a rls bug
<seb128> but we got few reports so far, we lack data...
<didrocks> I don't think comparing 2 vs 4 reporters when the dataset is so small makes one one rls bug and one not
<duflu> I would say that's a lot of bug reports, given how few users to early testing, and how few of them are inclined to report problems at all
<didrocks> when we go to so few reports
<duflu> -to +do
<seb128> didrocks, well, you use the dataset to argue the rotation fix is not important enough to warrant an upload :p
<didrocks> no warrant an upload today
<seb128> (half trolling there, but yeah I agree, that's what I said we need to confirm)
<didrocks> without waiting for more fixes
<seb128> why*
<seb128> we are also due GNOME .1 next week
<seb128> which fixes a bunch of launchpad milestoned other problems
<didrocks> yeah, so that can be uploaded at the same time
<seb128> including the touch coordinate being off on x11
<didrocks> when I do an upload, I test it throughfully ;)
<seb128> that's the spirit :)
<seb128> I hope they do release a tarball on time though
<seb128> we need it next week
<duflu> seb128, probably not complete but https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=fixed-in-3.32.1
<willcooke> nice, thanks duflu
<seb128> andyrock, looks like you need to follow up on https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-control-center/merge_requests/423 ?
<gitbot> GNOME issue (Merge request) 423 in gnome-control-center "online-accounts: Don't segfault if get_all_providers_cb is called during init" [1. Crash, 6. Component: Online Accounts, Opened]
<duflu> willcooke, your touch bug is now there too (hit refresh)
<willcooke> duflu, ha!  I was in the process of adding it, and by the time I'd found it the tag was already there :)
<duflu> willcooke, it was there days ago but with a typo
<duflu> a day ago?
<duflu> The most annoying Nvidia bug right now is with Wayland sessions the monitor goes to sleep forever
<duflu> And Xorg sessions never start. I assume something is crashing
<seb128> duflu, you should call it a week and go enjoy the w.e, you are not going to debug those issue today now
<duflu> Actually I just found my Xorg login failure is one of the xrandr-scaling regressions
<duflu> Now updating
<seb128> duflu, which one?
<duflu> seb128, bug 1822616
<ubot5`> bug 1822616 in budgie-desktop (Ubuntu) "[nvidia] gnome-shell/budgie-wm crashed with SIGABRT "assertion failed: (width > 0 && height > 0 && scale > 0)" in meta_monitor_manager_xrandr_update_screen_size" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1822616
<seb128> is that fixed with the xorg patch uploaded this week?
<duflu> I don't think Marco knows about it yet?
<seb128> hum, please ping him about those regressions when you find them, he should know about them
<seb128> Trevinho, ^
<duflu> And until a minute ago it was not verified
<seb128> didrocks, k, so QA has been pinged to know if they can help confirming/verifying if those issues happen on any nvidia config with multimonitor, it should help us to asset priorities hopefully
<didrocks> ah, great to know!
<seb128> Laney, willcooke, do you have any opinion on skipping the ppc64el/s390x webkit2gtk regression to have the current version migrating to disco proper? I doubt we are going to be able to debug on those archs before release (we could try, but it's not easy to have access and webkit is probably not going to be easy to debug)
<seb128> I'm leaning toward declaring we don't support desktop/webkitgtk on those archs anyway
<Laney> I don't really have opinions
<Laney> is this fixed by xnox's sphinx upload in the queue?
<seb128> oh, let me look, I didn't notice he had an upload
<seb128> lol
<seb128> yes, he basically did what I said
<seb128> +  * Skip sphinx-doc test on obscure arches, as there is no js-capable
<seb128> +    engine available at the moment to test that js in sphinx generated
<seb128> +    html docs is good.
<willcooke> :)
<Laney> so no I don't think that's a good approach
<seb128> that's somewhat a misleading description
<Laney> but I don't insist on things, make them unsupported if you think that's best
<seb128> that test worked in .91
<seb128> Laney, well, I just doubt we are going to be able to sort out webkit on those archs by ourselves (and the upstream bug report from j_bicha didn't get any comment)
<seb128> so the options are basically to ship wiht .91 on our main archs
<seb128> or to ignore the fact that it's buggy on s390x/ppc64el
<Laney> ok, your call
<seb128> I vote +1 for skipping the error and shipping the stable version, I think it's the better tradeoff if we can't fix the regression on the weird archs
<seb128> (which I think we don't have the engineering resources for, or at least it's not the most important thing to work on for us at this point)
<willcooke> seb128, I think you're right about making a decision on not supporting desktop on those archs.  I'd like to hear what xnox thinks about that statement
<Laney> I don't have opinions, so fine if you think it's fine
<seb128> I've no opinion on the way we skip though
<Laney> I'll accept that upload
<seb128> I would rather have marked the autopkgtest result to skip
<seb128> so we keep a reminder there is an issue
<seb128> but I will let you know decide what you prefer between the uploaded workaround and skip
<seb128> Laney, thx
<Laney> no problem, happy to execute
<duflu> seb128, Tidier now: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=xrandr-scaling
<seb128> duflu, thx
<seb128> Trevinho, ^
<duflu> Those are all bugs which can be avoided by downgrading mutter
<duflu> Although my bug has a strange overlay with nvidia-drm
<duflu> *overlap
<seb128> I need to get answers from Trevinho today
<seb128> he said that the changeset would be a no-op if the option was not enabled, which it's clearly not
<seb128> I'm still unclear if the fact that it's not is a bug which he's going to fix or if it was a wrong statement, and in which case if we should revisit the decision based on that or just push forward fixing the issues found
<duflu> Well it pains me to leave you unhappy, but also this has been a productive afternoon
<duflu> if only for triage
<duflu> For the record, a _plain_ Nvidia install and Xorg login works fine with the new mutter here
<seb128> new being current git?
<seb128> without the scaling work from marco?
<seb128> do you mean they fixed things?
<duflu> seb128, no I mean current disco with scaling installed but not configured
<duflu> Here's a shorter list :)  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mutter/+bugs?field.tag=xrandr-scaling
<seb128> k
<duflu> One fix landed. Probably only two more required
<didrocks> hum, pushing the mutter "rotate screen" fix to a ppa
<didrocks> as I can't build esaily with my nvidia binary blob due to deps
<didrocks> and rebooting then multiple times to answer duflu's questionsâ¦ (could have pinged me rather than treating the bug and set it to incomplete)
<seb128> yeah, he tends to do that :/
<seb128> didrocks, do you remember what was the outcome about the transparency-mode (or was that a Marco thing also?)
<seb128> just saw bug #1823303
<ubot5`> bug 1823303 in gnome-shell-extension-ubuntu-dock (Ubuntu) "error in 10_ubuntu-dock.gschema.override" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1823303
<seb128> that's just cosmetic because it ignores the value, but basically we just need to drop the override?
<seb128> or did we need a different value/default change?
<didrocks> seb128: we agreed to have no transparency when the dock was fixed and a slight transparency in intellihide
<didrocks> but I guess Marco never did it in the end
<didrocks> on the key
<didrocks> the value doesn't exist anymore indeed, I mentioned it to him
<didrocks> (it should have been in the upload dropping those)
<didrocks> I think depending on if we want to have this ^ behavior or not, the override can still be needed (but set to something else)
<seb128> thx
<seb128> (I will check with him when he gets online)
<seb128> Marrrrrcoooo :)
<didrocks> ok, rebooting with my tools to log CPU/MEM usages
<didrocks> let's see if I can spot something for duflu on Wayland or Xorg (as it seems I need to test bothâ¦)
<didrocks> testing on wayland now, brb
<didrocks> quit
<didrocks> and finally, rebooting with Marco's rotating patch to see if it fixes the scaling issue on boot for me
<didrocks> and the bug is still there.
<seb128> didrocks, thx for testing
<didrocks> no pb
<didrocks> answered on duflu's bug as well
<didrocks> as the hanging bug (mine) seems to be drm enabled specific, doesn't seem to be a blocker, but as it was working fine for the past year, maybe better to tackle it earlyâ¦
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> let's see if daniel has some ideas about that one
<didrocks> yeah, having the Shell eating 100% CPU alone when nothing is happening is weirdâ¦ especially as it's like 20 times ~ 10 minutes in the first few minutes when you open apps/start your session
<willcooke> Odd.  seb128,jibel next time you do a fresh install on real hardware.. can you check the sound panel.  My test laptop had the balance set so only the left speaker was on?!  I'm going to reinstall and see if it happens again.
<willcooke> yeah, live session is the same
<willcooke> hm. odd.
<willcooke> Now I cant make it do it
<willcooke> ignore.  I will do more testing
<willcooke> jibel, on a different note; have you seen the live session not auto-logging-in often?
<willcooke> I can reproduce quite often now on the haunted laptop
<xnox> willcooke, seb128, Laney - the sphinx packages does generate correct documentation, and it's js works fine. So imho this is not a regression of sphinx on ppc64el/s390x, hence sphinx shouldn't be blocking things. W.r.t. webkit2gtk -> it seems it doesn't have unittests enabled, nor does it have an autopkgtest itself. Imho - it should have those, cause it's a non-trivial package. Even if we remove webkit2gtk on ppc64le/s390x the sphinx patch will
<xnox> still need to go in (cause sphinx needs to stay green across the board). As far as I understand webkit2gtk (in some future update) might come back working on s390x/ppc64el but it's a question of timing and noticing it. And it has 74 reverse dependenices on ppc64el/s390x.
<xnox> willcooke, seb128, Laney - my preference is to ship a knowngly broken webkit2gtk on ppc64le/s390x cause it seems to be good enough for most packages, based on autopkgtest results.
<xnox> (i guess html core/css, but not js-engine)
<jibel> willcooke, yes it's an old bug
<willcooke> jibel, live session one?
<jibel> willcooke, gnome-shell  fails to start
<jibel> yes
<willcooke> thx
<willcooke> hahaha, I think I know what's causing the left audio only
<willcooke> more testing needed
<willcooke> xnox, thanks for the info
<jibel> willcooke, is there an error in the journal?
<jibel> or a timeout more likely
<willcooke> next time it breaks I'll look
<willcooke> I worked out what's going on with the audio balance :)
<willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1823336
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1823336 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "Scrolling the sound panel with the mouse wheel can result in sliders being moved by mistake" [Undecided,New]
<willcooke> not sure if it's really a bug
<Laney> xnox: your analysis seems a bit wrong. excuses was saying that webkit2gtk broke sphinx on those arches, which seems like it did do
<Laney> might be right to not care about it, but as far as I can tell the machinery did the right thing there
<seb128> xnox, Laney, right, my understanding is that the javascript bits are working on s390x/ppc64el with .91 and regressed with .92 so it's a real webkit2gtk bug and the test were right to fail/block it
<seb128> willcooke, weird the balance bug, I never saw that one
<willcooke> I think screen size has a lot to do with it
<seb128> with sound balance?
<willcooke> the general layout of the screen meaning that balance slider is under the pointer when you move from the sound panel selector in the list to the main sound panel
<seb128> ah
<seb128> willcooke, sounds like the bug you opened should have been against g-c-c not gnome-shell? also unsure it's a bug at all, scrolling over a slider has always been moving the slider and is the expected behaviour afaik
<willcooke> yeah it's probably not a bug.  I've never seen it happen before and I think it's generally more difficult to trigger on the old layout.  So.... ?  dunno.  I'll log it upsteam and see what they say.
<Trevinho> morning
<oSoMoN> good morning Trevinho
<Trevinho> hi oSoMoN
<didrocks> Trevinho: I'm unsure I'll have time to bisect, are every commits buildable in https://gitlab.gnome.org/3v1n0/mutter/commits/xrandr-scaling?
<Trevinho> didrocks: should be yes
<Trevinho> didrocks: but I'm quite sure it's one of the first ones at this point
<Trevinho> but let me try to reproduce this first, then I'll ask you again for help :P
<didrocks> yeah
<didrocks> Trevinho: FYI I tested your rotating monitor fix, but yeah, it didn't have any effect
<Trevinho> yeah I was looking at the backlog, since I just read the highlighths so far, but I wanted to read it full first of commenting
<Trevinho> but it was expected, it might have not been true in wayland, but in X11 there's no change.
<xnox> Laney, "excuses was saying that webkit2gtk broke sphinx on those arches" no that is not the case, please read the actual autopkgtest in sphinx that failed. The test that failed in sphinx, is a python script which imports webkit2gtk gir, loads a webpage of generated docs, and tries to excersize js search within docs. The sphinx docs themselves generate correctly on those architectures, and sphinx has no build/runtime dependencies on webkit2gtk.
<xnox> it's just one autopkgtest uses webkit2gtk as an automated "web-browser window"
<xnox> Laney, sphinx is not broken on ppc64el/s390x
<xnox> (nor the generated docs)
<Laney> thanks, I did read it
<Laney> when A triggers B, and B fails, it is an indication that A is broken if all is working well
<Laney> that's what is happening here
<willcooke> Have a good weekend all.
<willcooke> l8r
<Eickmeyer> clobrano: I just took a look at Ubiquity running with the patched version of materia-gtk-theme, and I have reason to believe the _xfce.scss file may have needed to be patched as well since Ubuntu Studio uses Xfce.
<Eickmeyer> That said, the patch didn't work as expected.
<clobrano> Eickmeyer: I thought it used gnome. So I need to install xfce first
<Eickmeyer> Okay.
<Eickmeyer> Also, you spelled Ubiquity wrong in the original patch / PR, and I didn't catch it until now. :)
<clobrano> Oops
<flusheddata> Hi, has anyone been able to import gnupg keys into seahorse?
<flusheddata> I cannot import my keys nor can I import X.509 certs either.. :-(
<sarnold> what error do you get?
<flusheddata> The import button is greyed out
<flusheddata> when trying to import X.509'x
<flusheddata> s
<gQuigs> flusheddata: what Ubuntu release?
<flusheddata> I can use my X.509 certificate and my gnupg keys with Thunderbird/Enigmail.
<flusheddata> 18.10
<flusheddata> I got aware of something going wrong when I tried to gpg sign a LibreOffice document. In windows I can sign with pgp/gnupg, but not with ubuntu 18.10.
<sarnold> does it work from the command line?
<flusheddata> yes, like a charm. Sorry I should habe mentioned that
<gQuigs> wow, that was a big bump in version for seahorse 3.20 to 3.30 for 18.04 to 18.10
<flusheddata> *have
<flusheddata> cli gpg works like a charm. Every option
<flusheddata> The thing is that I have noted that to me Seahorse seems a bit buggy.
<flusheddata> Also, after a while double clicking on a key in order to see its options, when I double click to enter again the window is blank
<flusheddata> Without any control (button, field, etc)
<sarnold> is there anything in the ~/.xsession-errors? quite often gui programs will dump warnings and errors to stdout, and usually that winds up in that file
<flusheddata> Anyway I can use gpg graphically as the seahorse-nautilus plugin works fine
<flusheddata> Going to check...
<gQuigs> flusheddata: it also looks like some of the dialogs have been redone in disco..    might be worth trying an upgrade (although still beta..)
<gQuigs> you can also use  journalctl -f   while you open it
<flusheddata> There is not such a .xsession-erros file in my home
<flusheddata> ..folder
<flusheddata> gQuigs: I have tried it in virtualbox, but I think I am going to do a fresh install of 19.04 in my new two ssd's
<flusheddata> Oh my...
<flusheddata> abr 06 01:22:28 TPE550 seahorse[8910]: gtk_tree_model_get_iter_first: assertion 'GTK_IS_TREE_MODEL (tree_model)' failed
<flusheddata> abr 06 01:22:28 TPE550 seahorse[8910]: gtk_tree_model_get_iter_first: assertion 'GTK_IS_TREE_MODEL (tree_model)' failed
<flusheddata> abr 06 01:22:28 TPE550 seahorse[8910]: gtk_tree_model_get_iter_first: assertion 'GTK_IS_TREE_MODEL (tree_model)' failed
<flusheddata> abr 06 01:22:28 TPE550 seahorse[8910]: gtk_tree_model_get_iter_first: assertion 'GTK_IS_TREE_MODEL (tree_model)' failed
<flusheddata> abr 06 01:22:28 TPE550 seahorse[8910]: gtk_tree_model_get_iter_first: assertion 'GTK_IS_TREE_MODEL (tree_model)' failed
<flusheddata> Sorry
<gQuigs> https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/
<flusheddata> Thanx
<flusheddata> https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/xk7gTV8SKs/
<flusheddata> You know, I am a bit newbie and English is not my first language either.
<gQuigs> flusheddata: I'm not that good at reading those, but I don't see anything obvious that I would consider related from it...   my last guess would be seahorse expects a certain file extension...
<gQuigs> many are not actually useful error message IME
<sarnold> they all feel plausibly related
<sarnold> a box is grey, why is it grey, maybe because it's not actually a box. or isn't a container. or whatever.
<sarnold> but gtk apps just tend to spew this stuff :(
<flusheddata> Anyway, I think it could investigate more
<flusheddata> Thank you so much you both
<hggdh> interesting. Ran seahorse myself, and had it die with an X error (but I am under KDE, and on Disco, so there)
<flusheddata> I am affraid Seahorse has some problems
<hggdh> flusheddata: it might, indeed. But my experience is probably different from yours -- different versions, and DE
<flusheddata> I tried managing my gpg keys with Kleopatra (tough I am gnome) and it works fine.
<flusheddata> Sure
<flusheddata> hggdh: try to double-click on another person's public key and exit several times. Eventually the opened window would not show controls at all. Well at least in gnome
<hggdh> flusheddata: cannot, right now, seahorse dies. Will have to re-login under Gnome to sanely check
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-04-07
<clobrano> Eickmeyer:  my patch on materia-theme for ubiquity has been replaced by a slightly different change, but I expect the effect is the same. I talked to the maintainer about the fact that the same patch is needed in xfce4
<Eickmeyer> clobrano: Yeah, I saw the email exchange. I'll probably have to manually make a patch and have it reuploaded.
#ubuntu-desktop 2020-03-30
<callmepk> good morning
<duflu> Morning callmepk 
<callmepk> Morning duflu 
<jamesh> hi callmepk, duflu 
 * duflu is still confused by the grammar of that
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<RikMills> morning. latest libreoffice upload is breaking all ISO builds :(
<oSoMoN> RikMills, how so?
<RikMills> oSoMoN: some new breaks I think
<RikMills> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<RikMills>  libreoffice-core : Conflicts: libreoffice-core-nogui but 1:6.4.2-0ubuntu2 is to be installed
<RikMills>  libreoffice-core-nogui : Conflicts: libreoffice-core but 1:6.4.2-0ubuntu2 is to be installed
<RikMills>                           Breaks: libreoffice-calc but 1:6.4.2-0ubuntu2 is to be installed
<RikMills>                           Breaks: libreoffice-gtk3 but 1:6.4.2-0ubuntu2 is to be installed
<RikMills> E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
<RikMills> so far all ISO builds that seed libreoffice have failed since latest upload migrated to release pocket. mate/xubuntu/kubuntu etc
<RikMills> I imagine the main Ubuntu ISO build will do the same in a few hrs time
<oSoMoN> RikMills, would you mind filing a bug? I'm sure ricotz will handle this as a priority
<RikMills> oSoMoN: np. will do shortly
<oSoMoN> thanks!
 * RikMills finds coffee 1st
<oSoMoN> yeah, first things first :)
<seb128> gooood morning desktopers!
<seb128> goooood morning from the vpn now :)
<RikMills> LP: #1869652
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1869652 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "1:6.4.2-0ubuntu2 breaks ISO builds were libreoffice is seeded" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1869652
<RikMills> seb128: morning :)
<seb128> hey rikMills, how are you?
<RikMills> good apart from that iso fail ;) :D
<RikMills> looking forward to the beta
<seb128> RikMills, I don't understand why libreoffice-core-nogui is to be installed...
<RikMills> nor do I yet
<oSoMoN> salut seb128 
<seb128> lut oSoMoN, comment Ã§a va ?
<oSoMoN> bien, et toi?
<seb128> nickel!
<duflu> Morning oSoMoN, RikMills, seb128, Europe
<oSoMoN> hey duflu 
<seb128> hey duflu, how are you? had a good w.e?
<duflu> seb128, I'm OK. Weekends are not really good these days but it was nice to sleep in. You?
<seb128> I'm good
<seb128> we didn't do anything fancy with the lockdown
<seb128> but still good to relax
<seb128> rikMills, trying to install libreoffice in a chroot, it doesn't try to pull in -nogui :-/
<duflu> seb128, was the spinner animation removed on purpose?
<duflu> Not sure if the update broke it or I did
<seb128> duflu, where/when?
<seb128> no, it's not
<duflu> Plymouth
<RikMills> seb128: germinate getting confused?
<seb128> I did an upload on friday but just tweaking position
<seb128> and style
<seb128> rikMills, dunno, that line in the log is weird
<seb128> ? Unknown dependency libreoffice-core-nogui (= 1:6.4.2-0ubuntu2) by libreoffice-base-core
<duflu> Yeah still no spinner animation. Only logos
<seb128> duflu, try downgrading and see if it resolves it?
<seb128> rikMills
<seb128> $ apt-cache show libreoffice-base-core
<seb128> Version: 1:6.4.2-0ubuntu2
<seb128> Depends: libreoffice-core-nogui (= 1:6.4.2-0ubuntu2) | libreoffice-core (= 1:6.4.2-0ubuntu2)
<seb128> I wonder if it has an issue with the nogui being first?
<seb128> but it should try the alternative then :/
<duflu> Wait a minute. I don't have spinner or bgrt installed. How is it working?
<RikMills> yeah, there are some that way around, and and some the other
<seb128> oSoMoN, ricotz is not around (yet), do you know if the libreoffice change intend was to have nogui installed by default?
<RikMills> found that greping depends in the build log
<oSoMoN> seb128, I'm looking at that now, but IÂ think that's not intended
<RikMills> maybe that fries germinates brain
<duflu> Ah, wrong machine
<oSoMoN> seb128, RikMills: this looks like the faulty commit: https://git.launchpad.net/~libreoffice/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/commit/?id=9560722596515ca49cc14096a36d996363b42968
<RikMills> oSoMoN: so does that need to change, or should we do something like explicitly seed libreoffice-core on images? 
<oSoMoN> RikMills, IÂ think this needs to be changed in the control file
<RikMills> ok :)
<seb128> shrug, a libreoffice upload has a roundtipe of some days, took the w.e to mgirate :-/
<seb128> also -nogui should be fine, it just tries to install the other variant as well for some reason
<seb128> having #ubuntu-release"s opinion would be useful
<didrocks> good morning
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks
<didrocks> Ã§a va oSoMoN ?
<oSoMoN> didrocks, bien, et toi?
<didrocks> oSoMoN: Ã§a va :)
<duflu> Morning didrocks 
<jibel> hi all
<didrocks> hey duflu 
<oSoMoN> salut jibel 
<ricotz> hey desktopers 
<ricotz> oSoMoN, hi
<clobrano> good morning all 0/
<seb128> lut didrocks, hey ricotz clobrano, how are you?
<seb128> lut jibel, t'as passÃ© un bon w.e?
<clobrano> hey seb128, I'm fine, what about you?
<seb128> clobrano, I'm good, thanks!
<oSoMoN> hey ricotz 
<jibel> seb128, salut, oui, trÃ¨s trÃ¨s calme :) et toi?
<seb128> oSoMoN, ricotz, timing is a bit unfortunate, that libreoffice upload from friday broke ISO builds, it's going to take at least 2 days to get an upload/built/autopkgtested and migrated, on beta week
<didrocks> salut seb128, Ã§a va et toi ?
<seb128> jibel, tranquile Ã©galement ici
<didrocks> hey clobrano 
<seb128> didrocks, Ã§a va :)
<seb128> oSoMoN, ricotz, I should have questioned those depends changes rather than just uploaded, it doesn't seem like anything that brings us benifits and it was risky :-/
<seb128> jibel, in case you didn't follow up, bug #1869652 is likely to impact our ability to have beta iso before tomorrow/wednesday
<ubot5> bug 1869652 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "1:6.4.2-0ubuntu2 breaks ISO builds where libreoffice is seeded" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1869652
<jibel> seb128, yup, I saw that in that in the backlog. Thanks for the heads up
<seb128> np!
<ricotz> seb128, hi, I had some confidence since those -nogui dep changes got worked out in debian by two people
<seb128> ricotz, right, still it doesn't sound like something we need/that bring us any value; sounds like we took risk for little benefit and beta time is late for that ...
<ricotz> it is kind of a fundamental problem of sorting dependencies in alphabetical order
<seb128> ricotz, oh well, now it's done, a bit unfortunate though :/
<oSoMoN> IÂ must admit IÂ didn't sanity check those changes, IÂ should have
<clobrano> hey didrocks, how are you?
<ricotz> oSoMoN, afaics the culprit is libreoffice-base-core which should get fixed by the proposed commit
<didrocks> clobrano: Iâm good, thanks, and you?
<clobrano> didrocks, good, I'm still confined, but all good :)
<seb128> oSoMoN, ricotz, let me try to promote libreoffice-core-nogui  to main
<ricotz> seb128, you don't want libreoffice-core-nogui to be installed
<Laney> hi there
<seb128> ricotz, but https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.txt
<seb128>  o libreoffice-core-nogui                                        {libreoffice}
<seb128>    [Reverse-Depends: python3-uno (MAIN)]
<seb128> hey Laney, how are you? had a good w.e?
<Laney> moin seb128 
<Laney> was alright, found a site to play board games online and tried it with some friends
<ricotz> seb128, ok, still if this checker prefers the first Depends option for python3-uno then we need to reverse those too
<Laney> tabletopia
<seb128> Laney, ah, nice
<Laney> you?
<Laney> oh dear @ libreoffice
<xnox> seb128:  meanwhile, on other news.... upstart's mountall did use "fsck:device:%-complete" messages, but systemd-fckd never did, as it instead does "fsckd:#-devices:%-complete:console-message"
<xnox> and casper which just now was implemented, uses upstart's message
<seb128> Laney, I'm good, had a relaxing w.e, poppler migrated and I think we have plymouth getting in shape ... sucks for libreoffice now though :/
<xnox> now looking into what spinner theme supports, if any.
<clobrano> didrocks, I did a MP for user-themes extension to look into `share/gnome-shell/theme/<theme-name>` for shell themes https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-shell-extensions/-/merge_requests/111, but Florian is pushing for looking into `share/gnome-shell/theme` only and use `theme-name.css`. If/when you have some time can we see this together?
<seb128> xnox, did you see the WIP patch from d_uflu on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/plymouth/+bug/1867130/comments/15 ? I tested it over the w.e and it works
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1867130 in plymouth (Ubuntu) "spinner theme doesn't support fsckd progress messages" [High,In progress]
<xnox> seb128:  ooooh oooh, did not see. looking
<seb128> xnox, also see  comment #13 about whether we need to support the upstream protocol and the ubuntu variant? (why don't we use the upstream one?)
<xnox> seb128:  that's very nice, and supports both message types
<xnox> seb128:  well, upstart's mountall is dead; casper was broken full stop, and i "fixed" it this cycle to use the old variant, but it is trivial to change it to the fsckd variant.
<seb128> xnox, also we were missing a depends on plymouth-label which is probably a good part of the reason why the messages don't display on the ISO, I added the depends... now if only systemd/ppc64el would stop failing autopkgtest that could migrate
<xnox> seb128:  so yeah, i think we should only support "fsckd:*" messages
<seb128> well, that + need to fix libreoffice now to have an ISO to build :/
<seb128> duflu, ^
<seb128> xnox, if you could update casper that would be nice
<xnox> seb128:  ack
<seb128> thx
<ricotz> seb128, so, the deps of python3-uno should be altered too :\
<jibel> can someone do a release of ubiquity 20.04.7 from current master branch?
<didrocks> clobrano: I wonder if Trevinho (as heâs working on Shell upstream) would have a better opinion, compatible with what they want upstream due to their recent change on gressources and so on
<duflu> seb128, I will struggle to get back into that today but it's possible. Let me see
<didrocks> clobrano: Iâm happy to have a second opinion if needed, but Trevinho will be more helpful than I on that IMHO
<clobrano> didrocks, Trevinho: indeed, I was in fact thinking about the gresource as well
<didrocks> clobrano: the issue of not having a subdirectory is if assets are differents
<clobrano> didrocks, exactly
<didrocks> but if the gresource filename can be different, I think thatâs ok, as all in one single place
<duflu> seb128, I would rather keep backward compatibility than be blamed for some regression so I will keep both for now
<clobrano> didrocks, I was also thinking of leaving the gresource in the subdirectory and use theme-name.css to point to it
<clobrano> but, okay, I'll wait for Trevinho's opinion
<clobrano> thanks
<xnox> jibel:  release new ubiquity? i can do that, unless somebody claimed that task
<Laney> Wait.
<Laney> I want to merge my OEM stuff in.
<xnox> ok
<didrocks> yw
<didrocks> hey Laney 
<Laney> Thanks!
<Laney> hi didrocks 
<seb128> duflu, k, fair enough
<jibel> Laney, is it ready to merge? the MP says "DO NOT MERGE THIS"  
<jibel> I'd like to have the other changes for the beta
<Laney> Not the MP
<ricotz> seb128, oSoMoN, in case you consider this sufficient and worth -- https://people.ubuntu.com/~ricotz/sponsoring/ -- https://git.launchpad.net/~libreoffice/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/log/?h=wip/focal-6.4
<Laney> I'm working on it
<Laney> I know
<duflu> Is visual bell meant to be a black flicker now??
<duflu> Hmm, upstream gnome-shell seems to suggest so
<duflu> Because we just had the first bug report about the fact that it looks like more bug than feature
<xnox> hmmmmmm..... didn't we historically disable any bell anyway?!
<duflu> Yeah but users turn anything and everything on
<xnox> seb128:  and i guess casper should use the same fsck-cancel-msg: and the patched theme will display that correctly too? (and i.e. using Ctrl+C to cancel checks in progress)
<seb128> yes
<duflu> seb128, bug 1869671 (?)
<ubot5> bug 1869671 in plymouth (Ubuntu) "plymouth missing plugin label.so" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1869671
<seb128> duflu, yeah, fix commited as you wrote
<xnox> didrocks:  #define PLYMOUTH_REQUEST_KEY "K\2\2\3" => i wonder if you can unpack that for me =)
<xnox> it is sending "K" command in plymouth protocol, and then sends 223 down it, which is supposed to be Ctrl+C?
 * xnox ponders how to send 223 using regular plymouth api
<didrocks> xnox: Iâm pretty sure to remember this is indeed the Ctrl+C equivalent (I had to dive into plymouth itself to find it)
<Trevinho> clobrano: so.. when doing the grsource thingy I was a bit confused of the two paths and indeed I'd go for just usr/share/themes... 
<Laney> jibel: just doing a couple of test installs and then I'll upload ubiquity
<jibel> Laney, okay, thanks
<Laney> Might follow up later again; I've been trying to implement the rst / bitlocker UI
<Laney> as that's new strings ...
<xnox> didrocks:  ack
<xnox> didrocks:  got it, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End-of-Text_character
<didrocks> right, rings a bell :)
<seb128> Trevinho, hey, do you know if we can expect a shell .1 today from upstream/packaged? if we want to have the update in the beta image it needs to be uploaded today...
<xnox> duflu:  seb128: following the forums thread on flickerfree boot => do we want to like grub pain the "ubuntu" logo on the bottom? cause then it will be "oem logo in bios, +ubuntu when grub starts, +spinner when plymouth starts, then gdm" getting more visuals in terms of "progress" of boot.
<xnox> duflu:  seb128: also, re: gdm => is it normal that lockscreen & login screen have visually different background?
<duflu> xnox, yes I think that's what I had in mind
<duflu> xnox, yes AFAIK they are different
<duflu> But I don't know what Fedora looks like right now
<xnox> duflu:  ack, the way I see it happening is for the plymouth theme, shipping that subordinate update-alternatives grub snippet that is sourced.
 * duflu shrugs
<xnox> duflu:  right they are different today, but i question if they should be or not =)
<duflu> xnox, you will need to ask a question of upstream. I assume they're meant to be different, not least because the login screen has no central clock or pre-existing wallpaper
<duflu> to blur
<duflu> I agree it's inconsistent but I don't know if that's a bug
<xnox> oh, it blurs the pre-existing wallpaper? interesting. I use default paper, that's why to me it seemed as if lockscreen is "stock gradient" and login screen is "a different stock gradient"
<xnox> i didn't grasp that it's my wallpaper =)
<duflu> Yeah it's very blurry
<GunnarHj> Good morning desktoppers!
<duflu> Morning GunnarHj 
<GunnarHj> seb128: Would appreciate your help with these two bugs:
<GunnarHj> bug #1869641 - sponsoring needed
<GunnarHj> bug #1869288 - is my suggestion a sensible solution?
<ubot5> bug 1869641 in ibus (Ubuntu) "Failed to launch ibus daemon in Xwayland + gnome-shell 3.36.0" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1869641
<ubot5> bug 1869288 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) ""Privacy" tab in gnome-control-center is not findable" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1869288
<xnox> seb128:  changed casper-md5sum messages to match systemd-fsckd ones, including Ctrl+C to cancel and tested that it works with the current spinner theme. Did not yet rebuild plymouth with that patch from that bug to see how things look with it.
<xnox> duflu:  or it could paint  the spinner logo in the starting position, which then starts spinning
<xnox> however, i though grub is not hi-dpi aware, horum, let me check what can be done there.
<duflu> xnox, no that assumes no fade-in and no customisation. 
<duflu> Less is more
<duflu> xnox, I will publish a new patch tonight
<duflu> And it's already tonight here
<jbicha> chrisccoulson: please see https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/flashplugin-nonfree/32.0.0.344ubuntu2 that change is ok all the way back to Xenial
<xnox> duflu:  so looking into grub stuff, it can do background_img and either paint it as is, or stretch it. There are no arguments for "placement", thus if we want "ubuntu logo, centered on the bottom" we will need patches to grub to support "placement" like that
<duflu> Yeah I figured maybe not for focal. Just wishing
<duflu> Or something simpler
<xnox> or make boot faster
<duflu> Hah. Yeah plymouth runs for a very small fraction of the actual boot time
<duflu> xnox, maybe a blurry Ubuntu logo so it doesn't have to match the resolution and position?
<duflu> Then becomes clear when plymouth starts
<xnox> ooooh
<xnox> duflu:  i wonder if we should just remove plymouth full stop.....
<xnox> unless one does encrypted disk / password login
<duflu> I did suggest that last year
 * duflu continues fixing plymouth anyway
<duflu> xnox, bug 1867130 updated
<ubot5> bug 1867130 in plymouth (Ubuntu) "spinner theme doesn't support fsckd progress messages" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1867130
<duflu> and I'm overdue for dinner
<xnox> duflu:  nom nom! enjoy =)
<Laney> jibel: have you tried installing into qemu+uefi lately? I just end up @ initramfs but not sure if it's me ...
<popey> Hello desktoppers!
<oSoMoN> hello popey 
<didrocks> hey hey popey 
<popey> Was libpango1.0-0 removed from focal recently?
<popey> (i just did my updates today, might have been done a few weeks ago)
<popey> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pango1.0/1.44.7-2  ?
<popey> oh, it was renamed libpangox-1.0-0 ?
<popey> This breaks minecraft. Minecraft depends on libpango1.0-0 which cannot be installed because it's purely virtual.
<jbicha> popey: libpango-1.0-0 has been the replacement for years (notice the extra hyphen)
<popey> Well, minecraft worked yesterday, and I just updated and minecraft and libpango got removed from my system
<popey> and I cannot reinstall minecraft.
<jbicha> can Minecraft just be rebuilt against pango?
<popey> It's a proprietary application
<popey> Would need to contact the upstream developer (Microsoft) to get that done.
<jbicha> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/flashplugin-nonfree/32.0.0.344ubuntu2 had a manual dependency that I had to replace
<popey> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/BddH6gXsc6/
<jbicha> the transitional pkg was introduced in 2013. Can you try to contact upstream about the issue?
<popey> They are *notoriously* hard to contact, especially about Minecraft. Imagine my request would be in among a billion 8 year olds trying to get password resets.
<popey> matlock ^
<jbicha> the Minecraft package is at least not i386 right? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pango1.0/1.44.7-1ubuntu1
<popey> it's 64-bit
<jbicha> we could add the package back if we really needed it. I think we'd prefer not to though ð
 * popey creates an upstream issue
<popey> https://bugs.mojang.com/browse/MCL-13512
<jbicha> for most packages, all I had to do was rebuild them against a recent pango1.0 to get the correct dependency - I don't know how recent though
<matlock> Popey 10-4
<popey> This worries me, what other things are broken by this.
<popey> If Microsoft use their standard tools to make the launcher, they may well use the same tools to make other packages, which could also break.
<oSoMoN> seb128, did the promotion of libreoffice-core-nogui to main do the trick?
<jbicha> Debian only made the pango change in experimental so far
<jbicha> anyway, I'll let others handle the pango issue. I was just helping out a bit this weekend but I'm not around as much
<Wimpress> jbicha: Out of interest, what was the requirement to sync pango1.0 from experimental?
<Laney> jibel: (it's uploaded)
<seb128> oSoMoN, I didn't do that because ricotz said it was wrong/we didn't want -nogui
<seb128> jbicha, it's a bit late in the cycle to remove binaries like that, even transitionals
<oSoMoN> seb128, so we still need a new upload, right? shall I handle it?
<seb128> oSoMoN, I don't know, I'm not around much atm, will be in a bit
<seb128> but also I asked for help on #ubuntu-release
<seb128> waiting to see if someone here can help/pick it up
<seb128> I would prefer to avoid an upload, especially if that's guess work
<seb128> xnox suggested seed changes might work better
<seb128> but dunno, maybe we need another upload and wait tomorrow afternoon to see if it worked
<oSoMoN> ricotz, do you have a test rebuild running for that dependency ordering fix?
<Laney> the problem is that iso builds with universe enabled picked nogui and that ends up making something else uninstallable?
<oSoMoN> seb128, I'm not familiar with the iso builder tools, who could help me set it up locally to confirm the problem and test fixed packages?
<ricotz> oSoMoN, no, a test build is not useful in this case
<oSoMoN> ricotz, well it would be to confirm the fix
<ricotz> oSoMoN, you mean you can run the isobuilder on a ppa?
<Laney> or what?
<oSoMoN> ricotz, IÂ don't know, I'm hoping we could run just the part of the pipeline that fails against a PPA or even local packages, just to confirm it works
<xnox> oSoMoN:  ricotz: seb128: over on #ubuntu-release, there is answered question i posed "what is the expected/correct set of packages on the iso?"
<xnox> as in "all -nongui" or for example "none of -nongui"
<ricotz> xnox, none of -nogui
<xnox> ricotz:  ack, let me trace things.
 * Laney feels ignored :(
<Laney> I'll go back to working on ubiquity
 * xnox ignores Laney with kidness =)
 * xnox ignores Laney with kindness =)
<ricotz> Laney, libreoffice-core-nogui gets picked up before libreoffice-core due to the alphabetically order in control
<ricotz> so when the resolver reaches libreoffice-base-core then libreoffice-core-nogui gets picked up first
<ricotz> while "libreoffice-base" is one of the first depends of "libreoffice"
<ricotz> https://git.launchpad.net/~libreoffice/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/commit/?h=wip/focal-6.4&id=6834a11abdd6d80c50e80beaf75db84a3192d3fa
<ricotz> the change to python3-uno should deal with the component mismatch
<xnox> images are built correctly
<xnox> -nogui packages are unknown, and are not pulled in
<ricotz> xnox, huh?
<Laney> no
<Laney> look at a universe flavour e.g. kubuntu
<RikMills> ah, so that is why main ubuntu build worked. should have realised :/
<xnox> i will get to other flavours in a second
<xnox> first i want to fix components missmatch, by adding extra-exclude annotation for -nogui
<xnox> rerunning germinate locally against kubuntu seed with universe enabled
<seb128> rikMills, ricotz, oSoMoN, sorry, I hadn't realized either that it was universe enabled images only, when I got pinged this morning ubuntu had no iso build yet since libreoffice migrated
 * xnox still is confident i can unbreak components-missmatches & universe-isos with seed changes
<seb128> xnox, thanks for looking at those changes!
<xnox> germinate is sooooo slow
 * RikMills crosses fingers this works
<xnox> local germinate run complete
<xnox> now running germinate with my Desktop-Include change
<xnox> ha, didn't actually push my change
<xnox> redoing
<xnox> perfect, it seems to work
<xnox> pushing changes
<xnox> so
<xnox> seb128:  RikMills: we need to wait for kubuntu seeds to update on snakefruit, once the seeds are updated there, we can retry the kubuntu iso build
<RikMills> nice
<xnox> oh, it looks like it is already updated
<xnox> RikMills:  schedule kubuntu rebuild in the iso tracker?
<xnox> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-dev/ubuntu-seeds/kubuntu.focal/revision/1505 is the change i did
<RikMills> xnox: doing
<RikMills> ty
<Wimpress> xnox: Should that change in seeds be made for all universe enabled flavours?
<RikMills> xnox: still fails /o\
<xnox> Wimpress:  let's start with one
<Wimpress> OK
<xnox> RikMills:  let's check if it using the correct seeds, cause maybe internal ftpmaster seed mirror was not updated yet
<RikMills> hope so
<xnox> cause my local run with everything up to date results in:
<xnox> ? Package libreoffice-core-nogui blacklisted in desktop but seeded in desktop (libreoffice-base-core)
<xnox> * Chose fonts-liberation2 to satisfy libreoffice-common
<xnox> * Chose libreoffice-core to satisfy libreoffice-base-core
<xnox> Chose libreoffice-core to satisfy libreoffice-base-core -> looks good
<xnox> but it seems like germinate runs against main only
<xnox> because it has
<xnox> ? Unknown dependency libreoffice-core-nogui (= 1:6.4.2-0ubuntu2) by libreoffice-base-core
<xnox> and it means internal ftpmaster mirror is not updated yet
<xnox> also not sure why it tries to remove libreoffice-core
<xnox> it seems to me that a) live-build is a bit broken, as it doesn't correclty pass components to germinate b) it seems to install packages ignoring what germinate has calculated
<xnox> potentially we will need to seed libreoffice-core harder
<popey> seb128 jbicha filed in launchpad so we can track it too. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pango1.0/+bug/1869716
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1869716 in pango1.0 (Ubuntu) "Removing libpango1.0-0 broke Minecraft Launcher " [Undecided,New]
<seb128> popey, thanks
<Wimpress> Regarding #1869716, I just reviewed the i386 evaluation from last year.
<Wimpress> We do need to keep that pango transitional package around, the reason for its original whitelisting it due to it being referenced 3rd party games. Not just Minecraft, but older Unity 3D games too.
<seb128> Wimpress, popey, jbicha, would a Provides be enough there? they are versioned now
<Wimpress> I think a Provides would be sufficient.
<xnox> hm
<hellsworth> good morning desktopers.. catching up on the libreoffice iso failure now
<seb128> hey Heather, how are you?
<Wimpress> Hello hellsworth o/
<oSoMoN> hey hellsworth 
<Laney> yeah blacklist isn't going to work like that
<Laney> perhaps positively seeding the correct alternate would
<hellsworth> oh boy.. just finished with the backlog
<hellsworth> ricotz: oSoMoN thanks for looking into libreoffice. is there anything i can do to help?
<hellsworth> seb128: oh i'm ok.. still trying to get over a cold
<oSoMoN> looks like it's covered by ISO build experts
<hellsworth> that's what i figured but wanted to offer in case.
<hellsworth> TIL ordering dependencies matters
<hellsworth> ls -l
<seb128> ricotz  has a patch/commit which I think would make sense to take in any case
<seb128> but now might not be the right time for another libreoffice upload
<hellsworth> but there's no way to test it, right?
<seb128> indeed not
<hellsworth> when is a better time for another LO upload?
<hellsworth> i know it's beta week but better now than next week..
<Laney> it would be better to fix the package rather than doing seed hacks imho
<xnox> what's the reason for the first alternative to be nogui?
<hellsworth> it seems to me that the hesitance to upload is because we can't test the package first to make sure it fixes it but i think we need to fix the package
<xnox> is it such that build-deps are smaller when things run things nongui?
<xnox> ideally if one installs interactively "install libreoffice-foo" one gets the gui version, right?
<xnox> Laney:  but i wouldn't want to add Recommends: libreoffice-core on the metapackage. Looks not tidy.
<hellsworth> right.. so not sure why we need -nogui at all
<xnox> ooooh
<xnox> Laney:  maybe we can do this in livecd-rootfs, cause this is exactly like "which ubiquity frontend to pull in" where we need kde one on kubuntu, and gtk one on ubuntu, and seeding the right one doesn't work, hence we do add_package call in livecd-rootfs?
 * Laney facepalms
<Laney> just fix libreoffice already
<Laney> figure out and implement the nongui stuff properly when we're not trying to release a beta if it's necessary
<hellsworth> Laney: it seems like we need some approval to do a new upload, that's the tone i get from reading the backlog
<xnox> i thought we want -nogui to be the default dep.....
<Laney> I think it's because it takes ages to build
<xnox> Laney:  at least i want to wait for seed to be updated on the internal master, and see that updated seed indeed doesn't fix anything
<Laney> maybe rene did in Debian for some reason, but not here, not now
<xnox> how often do we rsync to ftpmaster.internal?
<xnox> i think it should work
<xnox> because in stock run libreoffice-core-nogui ends up in .depends, and in patched one it does not.
 * xnox ponders if we should have Unrecommends: field =))))) which is a weaker Conflicts:
<ricotz> seb128, the patch will be part of 6.4.3 and is in debian now
<seb128> ricotz, can prepare an upload with the change? 
<ricotz> if this seed patching works out
<seb128> I agree with Laney that we should just get the fix uploaded now
<ricotz> seb128, already did 6 hours ago
<seb128> ricotz, where is it?
<seb128> I saw your git commit
<ricotz> <ricotz> seb128, oSoMoN, in case you consider this sufficient and worth -- https://people.ubuntu.com/~ricotz/sponsoring/ -- https://git.launchpad.net/~libreoffice/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/log/?h=wip/focal-6.4
<seb128> ah, thanks
<seb128> I will get that uploaded
<seb128> I did see the git url but didn't notice the sponsoring one, morning as a bit crazy, sorry
<oSoMoN> seb128, I can handle the upload if you're busy with other things
<ricotz> thanks
<Laney> worth checking the diff to the previous good upload to see if it looks right
<Laney> not that I doubt ricotz's skills ;-)
<ricotz> of course, please do
<ricotz> .. check it
<xnox> ricotz:  Laney seb128: looks like internal mirror is up to date now, and i completed kubuntu build with just the seed change without new libreoffice
<xnox> i hope you didn't upload libreoffice yet
<xnox> ignore the name, but here is the build-log
<xnox> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/471745584/buildlog_ubuntu_focal_amd64_amd64_ubuntu-server-live_BUILDING.txt.gz
<xnox> (it is overriden to build kubuntu)
<xnox> oSoMoN:  ^^^
<Laney> very good, fixing libreoffice is still ok and correct
<xnox> ricotz:  can you please retrigger kubuntu build again?
<oSoMoN> IÂ haven't uploaded yet, I was triple-checking the changes
<xnox> Laney:  right, then i don't understand what for nogui was listed as a first dep in the first place then. Or like how build-deps for package building can opt into nogui variants. I guess with like build-conflcits?!
<xnox> at least with or without libreoffice, images should be building.
<xnox> meaning we can roll this dep change into a future libreoffice upload, rather than pushing it now
<Laney> xnox: a bug?
<oSoMoN> xnox, nogui being listed first was a mistake in the first place, not deliberate
<Laney> I would prefer to have a package with the correct relations in the archive
<Laney> so please could you stop pushing back on that :(
<xnox> oSoMoN:  Ah! i see!
<RikMills> xnox: tried requesting a rebuild, but the qa UI still said (rebuilding) from the last fail, so it might ignore me
<xnox> Laney:  I missed the bit that the deps are wrong way around.
 * xnox was under assumption the deps were right way around
<Laney> okey
<xnox> Laney:  yeah, i'd rather back out seed changes out too, becuase !libreoffice-core-nogui is ugly
<xnox> in that case
<Laney> ya
<Laney> probably wait until the new one migrates
<seb128> oSoMoN, sorry, a bit busy here again, if you want to upload that would be appreciated
<oSoMoN> seb128, just done
 * Laney spanks gtk
<Laney> can't convince this gtk to not be huge
<Laney> svg*
<Laney> guess I could give up and use a png
<seb128> oSoMoN, thx
<oSoMoN> seb128, ricotz, Laney, xnox : https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/1:6.4.2-0ubuntu3
<Laney> sweert
<Laney> -r
<xnox> woop woop
<hellsworth> thanks oSoMoN and ricotz :)
<ricotz> oSoMoN, thanks
<GunnarHj> Hey seb128, trying to parse your "append the keywords from the code side to all subpanel from a category" idea. Is there any other way besides the .desktop files to set keywords for g-c-c panels?
<seb128> GunnarHj, gnome-control-center is doing the search so I guess it could have code to special case search keywords?
<seb128> like there is some code there doing the reading/parsing of the keys, it could also add the subcategory as a keyword
<GunnarHj> seb128: Okay.. Sounds like you suggest code digging? ;)
<seb128> GunnarHj, I can poke at that later if you want
<seb128> otherwise I would say there is probably less users relying on 'privacy' to return the panels than users relying on having translated keywords working
<seb128> so I wouldn't change strings at this point of the cycle
<GunnarHj> seb128: I agree on the latter. If you can spend a minute later to spot a code example, and point me in the right direction, I may be able to take it from there.
<KGB-1> gnome-shell signed tags d989e5f Iain Lane ubuntu/3.36.0-2ubuntu2 * gnome-shell Debian release 3.36.0-2ubuntu2 * https://deb.li/uxds
<seb128> GunnarHj, I wil try to have a look. Could you review bug #1868019 from an UIFe perspective? Apparently Robert's email to the lists got caught in moderation
<ubot5> bug 1868019 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu Focal) "[FFe] Add method to enable fractional scaling" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1868019
<seb128> seems like legacy softwares are popular
<seb128> we got several reports about the pango transitional missing already...
<GunnarHj> seb128: Will do that.
<seb128> GunnarHj, thanks
<GunnarHj> seb128: Another thing: Also gnome-doc-utils seems to have been drooped from archive, which makes the accountsservice build fail. I just uploaded it to PPA without that build-dep to see what happens: https://launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/+archive/ubuntu/accountsservice, but I don't know possible implications. Thoughts?
<seb128> GunnarHj, I don't know enough about the topic to say sorry, I can have a look later though
<GunnarHj> seb128: Let's see if it builds to start with. :)
<GunnarHj> seb128: It did. I can upload it, but I would appreciate if to have a look before I do.
<GunnarHj> s/to/you/
<seb128> GunnarHj, I've debdiffed the debs from the current archive version and from your ppa, no change, it looks safe to drop
<GunnarHj> seb128: Thanks, then I'll upload.
<seb128> GunnarHj, thanks
<Laney> seb128: planning to push those pango changes to unstable too?
<Laney> experimental*
<BigWhale> Greetings.
<BigWhale> Where is the designated bug reporting/tracking place for desktop stuff now? Launchpad? 
<sarnold> best is to run ubuntu-bug with the package or program name, so the log scrapers can run, etc
<seb128> Laney, probably, I was thinking about that, usually Debian/upstream are more idealistic on the fact that the world needs to move forward so I was not sure if that'something other pkg-gnome people would agree with
<seb128> also I was unsure if we would keep it after the LTS or just for this cycle since it's late in the cycle which isn't the case for Debian
<seb128> Laney, do you have an opinion on that?
<Laney> I think people on unstable should get to play minecraft too if people on focal do
<Laney> tbh it doesn't feel like we'll be able to drop it according to any distro release cycle
<Laney> but just the first one after the people providing the .debs fix them, whenever that is
<seb128> or maybe the fact that minecraft stops working for Debian users is enough to make upstream fix their package? always a tricky question
<Laney> Ubuntu would be a better forcer there probably
<seb128> yeah, I'm fine doing that, but early in a cycle
<Laney> ok if you say so
<Laney> 10â¬ we end up back in this exact place ;-)
<GunnarHj> Laney: Re beta freeze: Are uploads in order to fix a build problem still ok?
<BigWhale> sarnold: yeah, I did that. I'll report it with gnome-shell. It's about workspaces. I'm in the process of writing how to reproduce it.
<Laney> Dunno.
<Laney> Nothing bad will happen if it gets held in the queue, don't worry about it.
<GunnarHj> Ok.
<seb128> Laney, I asked Simon about the pango provide since he dropped the transitional, if he's not against it I will commit that to Debian tomorrow
<Laney> okey
<Laney> I don't mind if you decide to take the flak btw
<Laney> just concerned whether you'll be able to sustain the flak taking or have to cave in again
<Laney> ok good, proposed-migration is working again
 * Laney goes away, see you tomorrow!
<seb128> yeah, I think it's likely that we will add it back again before release if that didn't success in making upstream move
<seb128> Laney, 'night!
#ubuntu-desktop 2020-03-31
<callmepk> Good morning
<duflu> Morning callmepk 
<callmepk> Morning duflu
<kenvandine> robert_ancell: please remember to help with the snap-store-3-36 branch
<robert_ancell> kenvandine, ack
<kenvandine> https://trello.com/c/SPoFPnVb/788-fix-components-cache-in-snap-store-3-36-branch
<kenvandine> robert_ancell: btw... good morning :)
<robert_ancell> kenvandine, that last commit you made should be merged into a620371741f0eb85c837c7ae034b042aea3e609c - do you have everything checked in so I can rebase?
<kenvandine> I do
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<duflu> Hi oSoMoN 
<oSoMoN> hey duflu
<oSoMoN> duflu, thanks for triaging my bug report, and for marking the second one a duplicate of the first one, IÂ have no idea how IÂ managed to file the same bug twice, concurrently
<duflu> oSoMoN, no problem. Happens occasionally
<oSoMoN> IÂ think my mouse might be playing tricks on me, issuing very fast double clicks
<duflu> Yes that happens too
<didrocks> good morning
<seb128> lut didrocks, good morning desktopers!
<didrocks> salut seb128 
<duflu> Morning didrocks and seb128 
<didrocks> hey duflu 
<seb128> hey duflu
<seb128> how are you?
<seb128> didrocks, Ã§a va ?
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks, seb128 
<seb128> lut oSoMoN, comment Ã§a va ?
<didrocks> seb128: Ã§a va, et toi ?
<didrocks> salut oSoMoN 
<seb128> didrocks, pas encore bien rÃ©veillÃ© mais sinon Ã§a va :)
<oSoMoN> Ã§a va, Ã§a va
<duflu> seb128, sorry I missed that. I'm well other than a headache. You?
<seb128> duflu, a bit tired but good otherwise!
<duflu> seb128, about that missing spinner... it's still missing but I suspect that's some combination of the machine being so fast that it's never needed for long enough to fade in at all
<duflu> I will confirm when I update my laptop
<duflu> Oh, no I won't. That laptop can't start the spinner theme for other reasons
<duflu> That might be my next task
<duflu> It's not missing if I start plymouth manually anyway
<marcustomlinson> morning desktoppers
<duflu> Hi marcustomlinson, welcome back
<marcustomlinson> thanks. how are you duflu?
<duflu> marcustomlinson, I can't complain. How are you?
<oSoMoN> mornin' marcustomlinson, welcome back!
<marcustomlinson> yeah not bad, back at about 85%
<marcustomlinson> hey oSoMoN, how goes things?
<oSoMoN> all good, thanks
<didrocks> hey, welcome back marcustomlinson! Happy to see you around here :)
<marcustomlinson> thanks didrocks, it is good to be back (at the desk) :)
<marcustomlinson> how things with you didrocks?
<pieq> Morning everyone!
<seb128> hey marcustomlinson, glad to hear that you are better!
<seb128> lut pieq, how are you?
<didrocks> marcustomlinson: good good :)
<didrocks> hey pieq 
<jamesh> welcome back marcustomlinson 
<pieq> marcustomlinson, crazy story! Happy to see you back :)
<seb128> duflu, yeah, plymouth doesn't look great when it's only displayed for some seconds, sometime the spinner doesn't even get to be displayed...
<marcustomlinson> hey pieq seb128 jamesh, thanks :) Hope all is well with you guys
<pieq> seb128, Ã§a va, but I can't try to reproduce https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/pulseaudio/pulseaudio/issues/832 cause now the Bluetooth seems broken on my laptop!
<gitbot> PulseAudio issue 832 in pulseaudio "[Dell Inspiron 7370] External interfaces (BT, USB) show up in the sound output options but the sound keeps being emitted from the internal laptop speaker" [Opened]
<seb128> we are doing good here yes
<pieq> seb128, what package should I report broken bluetooth against? bluez?
<seb128> pieq, oh? kernel?
<duflu> seb128, if native resolution (UEFI) integration doesn't exist in grub yet then I would like to do that next cycle
<pieq> seb128, I can see BT devices, I can pair them, but they never connect and obviously I can't output any sound to them
<seb128> pieq, I would start with the kernel, maybe boot a previous one if you still have those installed
<seb128> duflu, that sounds a good thing to work on
<seb128> I've no idea what's the status of things there
<duflu> Well, x_nox suggested it didn't exist yesterday
<seb128> pieq, try pairing using bluetoothctl and if it's buggy there as well yes report against bluez
<seb128> duflu, k, he probably knows better the status than me :)
<pieq> seb128, yeah I just tried and I have a beautiful "Failed" from bluez :)
<pieq> I'll try to boot older kernel.
<seb128> pieq, could still be the kernel
<seb128> thx
<duflu> It's been a while but maybe the fact that I spent most of the 90's hacking real mode graphics might come in handy
<pieq> seb128, how can I force display grub at boot time?
<pieq> I tried to keep Shift pressed but it didnt' do anythign
<duflu> Escape?
<pieq> duflu, indeed it is! Thanks
<pieq> duflu, when you talk about UEFI, you want to bring a better experience for people with very high resolution screen (or very small Full HD screens) when looking at the UEFI boot screen?
<duflu> pieq, as I understand it I think grub doesn't touch the UEFI framebuffer regardless of resolution. It leaves it untouched for plymouth
<Laney> HEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY HOOOOOOOOO
<duflu> I am guessing
<marcustomlinson> hey Laney
<duflu> Hi Laney
<seb128> hey Laney, how are you?
<pieq> aaaaaaaan now it's the touchpad that's going crazy
<Laney> wb marcustomlinson! hey duflu! hi seb128!
<pieq> unbelievable
 * Laney brings round a tray of tiny triangles of toast with a weird foam on top that has an olive stuck in it
<seb128> Laney, fancy!
 * seb128 wants one
<Laney> of course sir
<seb128> :-)
<Laney> yeah i'm good
<Laney> going to be a beta-y day I think
<Laney> what about you?
<seb128> I'm good as well, it's nice and sunny (as almost every day since we in lockdown :-/)
<seb128> going to do bug triage and beta testing day for me
<seb128> Trevinho, hey, do you know if https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell-extension-desktop-icons/+bug/1868529 is due to changes of yours/a known issue?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1868529 in gnome-shell-extension-desktop-icons (Ubuntu) "Stretched picture or pdf preview icon on desktop" [Low,Confirmed]
<pieq> seb128, hm... I only have 3 kernels available, and it fails miserably on all of them. I'm gonna try to boot up a 19.10 live to see
<oSoMoN> oh, fancy toast triangles, can haz one?
<oSoMoN> (good morning Laney)
<didrocks> hey Laney 
<pieq> seb128, ok, BT pairing/connecting works on 19.10 (5.3.0-18 + bluez 5.50).... so both kernel and bluez are different from 20.04, where should I file the bug then?
<seb128> pieq, start with bluez I would say
<pieq> ok thanks
<Wimpress> Morning desktopers
<pieq> seb128, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bluez/+bug/1869857
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1869857 in bluez (Ubuntu) "[Intel 7265][Regression] Cannot connect BT earphones or speakers" [Undecided,New]
<pieq> hi Wimpress !
<seb128> hey Wimpress
<pieq> seb128, should I upstream the issue?
<seb128> pieq, it's always better to have more eyes on an issue :)
<pieq> seb128, but I can't find their bugtracker
<seb128> pieq, I think it's on the kernel bugzilla?
<pieq> oh....
<seb128> duflu, ^ do you know if that's right?
<duflu> seb128, yes
<seb128> thx
<duflu> Morning Wimpress 
<Wimpress> Hey duflu :-)
<Wimpress> I see you made progress with Plymouth.
<duflu> Kind of
<duflu> Still reporting more bugs than I fix
<xnox> seb128:  right, and after plymouth with 104.patch lands on the iso, i will still need to hunt down if anything is not shown under casper.
<xnox> (either boot or shutdown)
<xnox> seb128:  i did upload new casper that uses fsckd:* messages, et.al.
<seb128> xnox, I saw, thanks
<duflu> xnox, I also rewrote 103.patch today
<duflu> But that's less important
<duflu> Hmm, either bluez is rock solid or it's failing to report crashes
<duflu> And my own machine seems to suggest the latter
<ijohnson> Trevinho: hey so I tried using the nouveau driver instead of nvidia drivers and I was able to use fractional scaling with X11 again, I left a note in lp 1869042 about this
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1869042 in mutter (Ubuntu) "all monitor scaling fails due to overlapping monitors" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1869042
<hellsworth> good morning desktopers
<marcustomlinson> hi hellsworth
<hellsworth> hi marcustomlinson !
<hellsworth> i hope you're feeling well :)
<marcustomlinson> hellsworth: much better thanks :)
<hellsworth> so glad to hear it :)
<oSoMoN> good morning hellsworth 
<marcustomlinson> ricotz: hey! Thanks for all your help on libreoffice these last few days!
<hellsworth> +1 on that
<kenvandine> marcustomlinson: welcome back!
<marcustomlinson> kenvandine: thanks ken! good to be back
<oSoMoN> hellsworth, marcustomlinson, ricotz:Â this looks like a deadlock: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/1:6.4.2-0ubuntu3/+build/19088112
<marcustomlinson> oSoMoN: could be, could not be
<hellsworth> i saw that but wasn't sure what to make of it
<oSoMoN> let's give it one more hour or so, and if it hasn't progressed let's re-start
<marcustomlinson> I've seen that waiting for lock happen for over 20 hours before and still complete
<oSoMoN> oh really?
<marcustomlinson> yeah
<oSoMoN> ok, I won't touch it then
<hellsworth> should we not worry about the unsatisfiable depends on libreoffice-dev-common?
<marcustomlinson> hellsworth: where's that?
<hellsworth> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
<marcustomlinson> hellsworth: oh I think that's unsatisfiable simply because the amd64 build hasn't completed yet
<hellsworth> ok that's what i was hoping
<marcustomlinson> as it's that build that outputs the -common package
<marcustomlinson> s
<hellsworth> greyed out means don't worry *yet* :)
<hellsworth> ah makes sense
<popey> seb128 is this (extra i386 package suggestion for focal) something for you chaps, or does this require v orlon? https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/community-process-for-32-bit-compatibility/12598/61 
<seb128> popey, the later, sorry
<Wimpress> seb128 Laney Yep, I thought this might requires Steve's attention.
<Wimpress> That said, it there anyone else who can assist. Is this a skill we can acquire?
<seb128> Wimpress, one more thing for us to do right? :)
<Wimpress> I suspect most impact for missing 32-bit libs will impact desktop use cases.
<Wimpress> seb128: Status quo ;-)
<seb128> Wimpress, the technical side we can probably do/handle today, I'm just unsure on the policy side for deciding there
<seb128> but yes, we should have someone in position to take those decision I think
<Laney> I think it'd be fine for ubuntu-archive to take those decisions
<seb128> Wimpress, maybe a topic for the foundations catchup call tomorrow (if it happens)
<Laney> but I'm not on that team so I can't really say that :p
 * seb128 hides
<Laney> that's the group though imho
<Laney> not individually initially but they could work out how they want to handle those
<seb128> right
<seb128> k, meanwhile meeting time
<seb128> #startmeeting Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2020-03-31
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Mar 31 13:30:49 2020 UTC.  The chair is seb128. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/mxaCZTVc | GNOME 3.36 work claiming / tracking: https://trello.com/b/z29JJK3q/gnome-336 | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2020-03-31 | Current topic:
<hellsworth> o/
<seb128> 	Roll call:  didrocks, duflu (out), heather, jamesh (out), jibel, kenvandine, laney, marcustomlinson (out), oSoMoN, tkamppeter, trevinho, robert_ancell (out)
<marcustomlinson> I'm actually here
<marcustomlinson> :)
<oSoMoN>    \o
<seb128> Hey Heather
<jibel> o~
<seb128> wb Marcus glad to see you doing better
<seb128> k, let's get started, I expected everyone is busy with beta coming and snapcraft summit
<didrocks> hey
<seb128> #topic rls-bb-bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/mxaCZTVc | GNOME 3.36 work claiming / tracking: https://trello.com/b/z29JJK3q/gnome-336 | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2020-03-31 | Current topic: rls-bb-bugs
<marcustomlinson> shouldn't callmepk be on the roll call
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<marcustomlinson> (sorry derailing. carry on)
<seb128> no desktop item there
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> all assigned
<seb128> #topic rls-ee-bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/mxaCZTVc | GNOME 3.36 work claiming / tracking: https://trello.com/b/z29JJK3q/gnome-336 | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2020-03-31 | Current topic: rls-ee-bugs
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ee-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> no desktop item there
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ee-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> bug #1733321
<ubot5> bug 1733321 in network-manager (Ubuntu Focal) "network-manager ADT tests fail with on ppc64el with artful/linux 4.13.0.17.18" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1733321
<seb128> I will take this one
<seb128> since I'm the by-default nm maintainer atm...
<seb128> that's it for E
<seb128> #topic rls-ff-bug
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/mxaCZTVc | GNOME 3.36 work claiming / tracking: https://trello.com/b/z29JJK3q/gnome-336 | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2020-03-31 | Current topic: rls-ff-bug
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ff-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> bug #1866194
<ubot5> bug 1866194 in pulseaudio (Ubuntu) "[Dell Inspiron 7370] shows up in the sound output options but the sound keeps being emitted from the internal laptop speaker" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1866194
<seb128> I could confirm the issue now, here
<seb128> it's a bit weird, g-c-c/totem play through the speakers even after pairing the headset
<seb128> but paplay / gst-launch go to the headset
<seb128> anyway
<seb128> I vote +1 to accept the nomination
<Laney> yes
<didrocks> +1
<seb128> and I will take assignment since I've been providing info to upstream
<seb128> and I've more testing to do
<hellsworth> +1
<seb128> bug #1862081
<ubot5> bug 1862081 in mutter (Ubuntu) "Gnome resizes framebuffer when playing fullscreen video over and over again (when using X11 fractional scaling)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1862081
<seb128> Trevinho, do you think that should be rls tracked?
<seb128> it's unclear to me from the description the impact
<seb128> it has 3 dups though
<Laney> imo this is the kind of bug that should be fixed if the option is promoted to people
<seb128> I tend to agree
<seb128> let's nominate it
<seb128> Trevinho, ^
<seb128> bug #1865838
<ubot5> bug 1865838 in gdm3 (Ubuntu Focal) "no error displayed on failed fingerprint authentification" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1865838
<seb128> untagged now so we can skip it
<Trevinho> seb128: yeah
<seb128> (I need to propose a patch to make the report skip milestoned/assigned which still have the tag)
<seb128> k, next one is to target for Trevinho as well
<seb128> bug #1867908
<ubot5> bug 1867908 in wpa (Ubuntu) "Fix RTM NEW/DELLINK IFLA_IFNAME copy for maximum ifname length" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1867908
<seb128> sounds like worth taking
<seb128> it has a patch backported from upstream so easy
<seb128> I will sponsor the upload
<seb128> bug #1869086
<ubot5> bug 1869086 in gnome-software (Ubuntu) "Firmware upgrade always notifies to reboot the device even on immediate failure" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1869086
<Laney> (andrewsh recommends a sync if you didn't see that)
<seb128> (I didn't but didn't read the details yet, will check that, thanks)
<seb128> that gnome-software notification
<seb128> nice to fix but not rls material
<seb128> it's just a notification
<seb128> and clicking on firmware update while on battery isn't a daily action
<seb128> I vote -1
<hellsworth> i vote not fix
<marcustomlinson> -1
<Trevinho> seb128: the bad of it is that it's a standing notification
<seb128> Trevinho, report it upstream, they might fix it for us even if we don't get to it :)
<Trevinho> not going away
<seb128> even if you click 'not now'?
<Trevinho> fwiw +1 on me :)
<Laney> It makes you assume that the update succeeded
<marcustomlinson> we're replacing gnome-software with snap-store in ff
<Trevinho> well yep... that's the thing
<seb128> marcustomlinson, I expect snap-store has the same problem
<marcustomlinson> that's the question
<seb128> Trevinho, sounds like buggy from the shell that 'not now' doesn't dismiss the notification
<seb128> Laney, so you vote +1 to take it?
<hellsworth> even if the same problem is in the snap store and you do an extra reboot, you'll be prompted to start the update again, won't you?
<Trevinho> seb128: ok not-now does hide it, but it requires an action and the text says you need to do it
<Laney> I think it's potentially quite misleading
<Laney> so yes probably, or at least give Robert the action to look into it
<seb128> kenvandine, opinion as the owner of snap-store? do you think you guys can take on it? should be a simple fix
<kenvandine> i think it should be simple
<seb128> k, let's take it
<seb128> kenvandine, can you assign to whoever is right?
<seb128> bug #1869635
<ubot5> bug 1869635 in gnome-shell-extension-ubuntu-dock (Ubuntu) "the menu "Dash to Dock Settings" is visible" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1869635
<kenvandine> will do
<seb128> small thing but same category
<seb128> (I tagged it)
<seb128> the item leads to an error about the command not being found as well
<seb128> Trevinho, can you take on that one, should be easy for you?
<Trevinho> ah! merge error for sure
<Trevinho> yeah, 
<seb128> thx
<Laney> +1 for me
<seb128> thx
<Trevinho> it was better if I did leave it broken upstream xD 
<seb128> bug #1868409	
<ubot5> bug 1868409 in ubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "gnome-{calculator,logs,characters} snaps not removed after the equivalent APT packages are installed on 20.04, and gnome-software APT package not replaced by snap-store" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1868409
<didrocks> +1 ofc :)
<Laney> that's already being worked
<seb128> marcustomlinson is working on that
<seb128> right
<seb128> let's take it
<seb128> bug #1869835
<ubot5> bug 1869835 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "Login screen randomly reverts my default keyboard layout to en-US" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1869835
<seb128> I didn't notice that problem here
<seb128> but I've only one layout configured
<seb128> I would vote +1 if we get more reports
<didrocks> 2 layouts here as well, no issue
<didrocks> (both fr)
<seb128> k, so I vote -1 for now
<seb128> Olivier upstreamed it
<seb128> I would put it back on the list if we get other reports though
<oSoMoN> yeah, fair enough if I'm the only one seeing it
<jibel> no issue here either with 2 layouts
<didrocks> oSoMoN: letâs discuss after the report, I have an issue with layout switching, may be related
<oSoMoN> sure
<seb128> bug #1868666
<ubot5> bug 1868666 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "gnome-shell crashes when resuming from lock screen [st_widget_remove_accessible_state: assertion 'ST_IS_WIDGET (widget)' failed]" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1868666
<seb128> it's a champagne/incomplete from previous week that didn't get a follow up
<seb128> let's skip, I will untag before next meeting if it's not updated
<seb128> bug #1869747	
<ubot5> bug 1869747 in xorg-server (Ubuntu) "Recent changes have caused Xorg to fail to start. Possibly nvidia driver related." [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1869747
<hellsworth> seb128: before moving to rls-ff-tracking, could we evaluate a focal bug that i just labeled incoming?
<seb128> the user submitted with apport now but it didn't get retraced yet/isn't accessible
<seb128> hellsworth, yes, let me finish the list and I ping you
<hellsworth> ofc
<seb128> next one is assigned to marco
<seb128> will target
<seb128> bug #1865838	
<ubot5> bug 1865838 in gdm3 (Ubuntu Focal) "no error displayed on failed fingerprint authentification" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1865838
<hellsworth> we already talked about that one, didn't we?
<seb128> yes, it's untagged now, the tag was left by error
<seb128> k, what's the new bug? :)
<hellsworth> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/1869561
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1869561 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "Libreoffice Help does not work" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<hellsworth> basically in 6.4.X libreoffice-help is broken
<hellsworth> rico found this over the weekend and i did some testing
<hellsworth> seems like we should fix it
<seb128> sounds like an important issue yes
<seb128> +1 from me
<hellsworth> i agree. +1
<seb128> k, let's take it
<oSoMoN> +1
<seb128> and that's it for incoming
<Laney> sry got distracted
<Laney> did everybody else too? :P
<Laney> WOAH
<Trevinho> na
<Trevinho> you bad
<kenvandine> :)
<seb128> lol
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ff-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<hellsworth> seb128: so i should change the tag to tracking then?
<seb128> hellsworth, I'm doing that
<hellsworth> ah ok. thanks :)
<seb128> bug #1733321 we already discussed
<ubot5> bug 1733321 in network-manager (Ubuntu Focal) "network-manager ADT tests fail with on ppc64el with artful/linux 4.13.0.17.18" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1733321
<seb128> bug #1865838 also
<ubot5> bug 1865838 in gdm3 (Ubuntu Focal) "no error displayed on failed fingerprint authentification" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1865838
<seb128> bug #1869819	
<ubot5> bug 1869819 in OEM Priority Project "[SRU] System can't detect external headset in the codec of Conexant" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1869819
<Laney> I got all of that: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/8bP6wcppsZ/ in one go
<seb128> OEM request, they submitted the patch upstream
<seb128> I vote +1
<seb128> I will take the task to help them landing it
<seb128> k
<seb128> that's it for bugs
<seb128> #topic update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/mxaCZTVc | GNOME 3.36 work claiming / tracking: https://trello.com/b/z29JJK3q/gnome-336 | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2020-03-31 | Current topic: update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
<seb128> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
<marcustomlinson> looks so clean
<seb128> indeed
<seb128> nothing to handle there, good work team :)
<marcustomlinson> well done
<marcustomlinson> indeed
<seb128> (the libreoffice one is only because it's not built on all archs yet)
<seb128> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/mxaCZTVc | GNOME 3.36 work claiming / tracking: https://trello.com/b/z29JJK3q/gnome-336 | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2020-03-31 | Current topic: AOB
<seb128> one topic from me, beta week, please try to help with ISO testing
<seb128> and do update to focal if you didn't do that yet!
<marcustomlinson> callmepk should be added to the meeting roll call :)
<seb128> oh
<seb128> you said 'callmepk' early, I though it was a typo/weird word :p
<marcustomlinson> haha
<seb128> I didn't realize it was Patrick
<callmepk> umm
<seb128> I didn't see him active on the channel yet
<seb128> callmepk, welcome on board!
<Laney> baptism of ð¥ for a new team member
<kenvandine> callmepk: welcome!
<hellsworth> o/ callmepk !
<callmepk> Sorry for not seeing that, still get familiar with IRC
<Trevinho> welcome callmepk 
<marcustomlinson> ha isn't it like 10pm for you callmepk
<marcustomlinson> welcome to the team
<Laney> Someone should probably talk you through what on earth just happened in here before expecting participation
<callmepk> Thanks, yep it is 10pm here
<Trevinho> Something maybe personal, but I've applied for being a desktop team member, so if some other of desktoppers can help with that... :-) https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2020-March/006289.html
<kenvandine> Trevinho: awesome
<Trevinho> :)
<oSoMoN> happy to chime in, but IÂ don't remember sponsoring any of your uploads, would my +1 count?
<seb128> kenvandine, didrocks, can maybe help?
<pieq> seb128, hey, another question popped in my mind: is it possible to see the release timeline for a given package? I'd like to know what were the latest bluez releases (in 20.04) and, if possible, an associated changelog
<Trevinho> I guess it does, but don't worry I assume it's better if it is based on facts :)
<kenvandine> Trevinho: i'll reply
<seb128> pieq, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bluez/+publishinghistory
<Laney> EOM?
<seb128> looks like it
<seb128> thanks team
<hellsworth> thanks for a short meeting!
<seb128> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/mxaCZTVc | GNOME 3.36 work claiming / tracking: https://trello.com/b/z29JJK3q/gnome-336
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Mar 31 14:06:18 2020 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2020/ubuntu-desktop.2020-03-31-13.30.moin.txt
<Laney> thanks
<marcustomlinson> thanks
<seb128> np!
<Trevinho> thanks
<oSoMoN> thanks
<seb128> ah, g-c-c and pango migrated, happy time
<seb128> kenvandine, popey, you will be able to play minecraft again
<Laney> best quality hints
<seb128> Trevinho, and fractional scaling UI is in beta now :)
<kenvandine> lol
<seb128> Laney, thanks!
<popey> :)
<Trevinho> yay
<kenvandine> thx seb128 
<popey> seb128 <3 thank you.
<seb128> np!
<seb128> I hope I just didn't ruin the snapcraft summit's productivity :p
<popey> :)
<Laney> smcv's feedback seemed fair btw
<pieq> seb128, thanks, exactly what I was looking for. And, indeed, 5.53-0ubuntu2 was released last week... before that, I could connect BT devices, so it's very likely a regression in that package
<pieq> but the weird thing is that it's a security update...
<seb128> pieq, it's a security update, try downgrading to 0ubuntu1 see if that makes a diffeence?
<pieq> seb128, how can I downgrade a package?
<pieq> (0ubuntu1 was released... 4 minutes after 0ubuntu2 according to the link :))
<pieq> I think I would have to roll back to 5.52 from Feb 27th
<seb128> pieq, download the debs on https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bluez/5.53-0ubuntu1/+build/18766720 and sudo dpkg -iO *.deb
<pieq> seb128, thanks. I'll try that tomorrow. It's pretty late here now.
<pieq> Bonne fin de journÃ©e !
<seb128> pieq, bonne nuit
<seb128> pieq, the UI is confusing but https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bluez/5.53-0ubuntu1/+publishinghistory
<seb128>  Published on 2020-02-26 
<seb128> pieq, 0ubuntu1 was published for like a month
<seb128> (need to click on the second > to have the detail)
<didrocks> oSoMoN: so, the issue I have with layout switching is in the lock screen
<didrocks> if you have layout2 in your session
<didrocks> lock screen
<didrocks> switch to layout1
<didrocks> then, you back on your session but still with layout2
<didrocks> you lock the screen again
<didrocks> and layout2, as itâs the one in your session
<didrocks> (I did spot it only once, didnât retry if I can reproduce or not)
<didrocks> unsure if that can help you inr your debug
<oSoMoN> didrocks, that looks like a different issue than mine, and IÂ think IÂ saw an upstream bug report that would match this
<didrocks> ack
<oSoMoN> didrocks, https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gdm/-/issues/461 maybe?
<didrocks> oSoMoN:looks like it, Iâll amend with the fact that the session isnât changed either
<didrocks> thx!
<oSoMoN> yw
<ricotz> libreoffice amd64 build is still kicking
<oSoMoN> ricotz, it's actually done now, just need to wait for the launchpad builder to clean up and upload
<oSoMoN> xnox, hey, I've prepared a merge of nodejs 10.19.0Â from debian unstable, would you mind sponsoring it? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/1863463/comments/8
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1863463 in nodejs (Ubuntu) "Firefox 75 requires nodejs >= 10.19" [High,Confirmed]
<oSoMoN> I've successfully built it and ran autopkgtests for all architectures in a PPA
<xnox> oSoMoN:  yes, i can review that. Did you dput the built source package somewhere? either ppa or like people.canonical.com?
<xnox> oSoMoN:  it might be easier to review something i can download with `dget` rather that massive debdiff
<oSoMoN> xnox, everything is there: https://people.canonical.com/~osomon/sponsoring/nodejs-10.19.0/
<xnox> tah
<oSoMoN> xnox, and the PPA IÂ used for testing is https://launchpad.net/~osomon/+archive/ubuntu/nodejs-10.19-focal/+packages
<seb128> Laney, wooot, plymouth made it :)
<xnox> seb128:  so i'm doing casper testing tomorrow?! or will we have a iso respin today too?
<seb128> xnox, I'm also waiting to be able to test that, it looks like from #ubuntu-release we will probably get a build started soon
<seb128> probably to test tomorrow morning at this point for me
<seb128> unless I come back in the evening, which I might...
<Laney> great
<seb128> Trevinho, what icons size does appindicator needs?
<fossfreedom> seb128: 22px is the expected size for appindicator icons
<Trevinho> seb128: so, yeah 22px is expected... Buuuut, actually in gnome-shell the system icons are 16px, so the appindicator extension now follows that rule
<Trevinho> so we can say that it was expected
<Trevinho> as having 22px icons would imply no vertical padding in the panel, and that's bad, unless we don't decide patching the panel to take more vertical space (24px as was in unity)
<seb128> fossfreedom, Trevinho, in focal update-notifier livepatch icons aren't right. update-notified does ask livepatch-ok / livepatch-warning icons but only ships a svg but the indicator side prefers to use the livepatch.png provided by yaru (so fallbacking the name and using the wrong icon), I guess we need to provide icons in addition to the svg one
<seb128> that would be 16x16 or 22x22 ones then?
<seb128> Trevinho, wooooot, congrats on joining the ~ubuntu-desktop on launchpad!
<oSoMoN> Trevinho, congrats!
<KGB-2> mutter tags 4d37d94 Simon McVittie upstream/3.36.1 * Upstream version 3.36.1 * https://deb.li/3DMXV
<KGB-2> mutter tags 4d37d94 Simon McVittie upstream/3.36.1 * tag deleted
<KGB-2> mutter pristine-tar 28ff4dd Simon McVittie mutter_3.36.1.orig.tar.xz.delta mutter_3.36.1.orig.tar.xz.id * pristine-tar data for mutter_3.36.1.orig.tar.xz * https://deb.li/dObc
<KGB-2> mutter upstream/latest c8ee04d Simon McVittie * pushed 94 commits * https://deb.li/31cky
<KGB-2> mutter tags 8d0c4b4 Simon McVittie upstream/3.36.1 * Upstream version 3.36.1 * https://deb.li/3DMXV
<KGB-2> gnome-shell pristine-tar 8855384 Simon McVittie gnome-shell_3.36.1.orig.tar.xz.delta gnome-shell_3.36.1.orig.tar.xz.id * pristine-tar data for gnome-shell_3.36.1.orig.tar.xz * https://deb.li/3lcQ7
<KGB-2> gnome-shell upstream/latest f4f3b81 Simon McVittie * pushed 171 commits * https://deb.li/9ZuU
<KGB-2> gnome-shell tags 775c28c Simon McVittie upstream/3.36.1 * Upstream version 3.36.1 * https://deb.li/35VSF
<KGB-2> gnome-shell debian/master Simon McVittie * [open] merge request !37: WIP: 3.36.1 * https://deb.li/PVai
<KGB-2> mutter debian/master Simon McVittie * [open] merge request !58: WIP: 3.36.1 * https://deb.li/3cOHh
<Trevinho> seb128 (and Olivier, but he's out :D) thanks!! 
<Trevinho> seb128: and also that g-s fix merged
<Trevinho> KGB-2: HIIIIII (thanks Laney)
<KGB-2> Trevinho: We either would better monitorize shareware services, or need to maximize GPRS applet portals for debugging the development of AI.
<Trevinho> desktoppers: that's our new friend ^^^
<sarnold> oh sure, the bot would like more AI funding, surprise surprise
<Trevinho> haha
<rikardGn> helllo
<rikardGn> I unfortunteatly missed the meeting. I would like to adress the following to problems I have in ubntu 18.04:
<rikardGn> When using the nvidia closed source driver I'm not able to run my integrated vega graphics in my ryzen 5 at the same time with my geforce gtx 1650 super
<rikardGn> My ubuntu 18.04 also won't boot properly and hangs in the middle when using my geforce gtx1650 graphics card
<seb128> rikardGn, hey, try #ubuntu for user support
<rikardGn> aha
<rikardGn> is that the appropriate forum?
<seb128> yes
<rikardGn> ok thanks
<robert_ancell> Thanks seb128 for finishing off the g-c-c scaling patch!
<seb128> robert_ancell, np!
#ubuntu-desktop 2020-04-01
<callmepk> Good morning
<pieq> hi duflu! Regardung <https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bluez/+bug/1869857>, what's the easiest way to install 5.3 kernel on focal?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1869857 in bluez (Ubuntu) "[Intel 7265][Regression] Ultimate Ears BOOM speaker disconnects immediately after pairing" [Undecided,New]
<pieq> duflu, I think I'll try installing older version of bluez first, just to make sure it's not bluez regression
<duflu> Just a sec...
<duflu> pieq, you can choose a kernel from https://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/?C=M;O=D and skip any packages mentioning 'lowlatency'
<pieq> thanks duflu 
<seb128> goood morning desktopers
<duflu> Morning seb128 
<seb128> hey duflu, how are you?
<duflu> seb128, feeling better than I have lately. You?
<jibel> hi all
<duflu> Hi jibel 
<seb128> lut jibel, comment Ã§a va ?
<seb128> duflu, that's good to read! I'm fine, could have slept a bit more though
<duflu> Also biab..
<seb128> urg, sorry, wrong command and I managed to close my session :-/
<seb128> jibel, how are you?
 * seb128 downloads a beta iso
<jibel> seb128, I'm good. I'd really need more exercise though. You?
<seb128> jibel, I'm good thanks! Similar problem here, the ratio food/movement is not good atm, I feel better when I exercice more :-/
<jibel> sooo, beta is broken on kde
<didrocks> good morning
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<seb128> lut didrocks, oSoMoN, comment Ã§a va ?
<seb128> jibel, where would be the fun without a bug :p
<seb128> wooot, at least the plymouth fixes work, iso checksum feedback is back on screen \o/ :)
<seb128> slightly buggy though
<seb128> duflu, so, for some reason the md5 check tell to "ctrl-C to cancel the filesystem check" instead of "S to skip", did you notice that?
<oSoMoN> salut seb128, didrocks 
<didrocks> Ã§a va seb128, et toi ?
<didrocks> salut oSoMoN 
<seb128> didrocks, je dormirais bien, et c'est pas journÃ©e 'jonglage', mais sinon Ã§a va :)
<seb128> happy to see that the plymouth spinner theme is getting there
<seb128> duflu, bug #1870018 on lubuntu which doesn't use spinner, I guess it means it's not us but the new casper
<ubot5> bug 1870018 in casper (Ubuntu) "No option shown to disable ISO verification S key not working" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1870018
<seb128> xnox, ^ regression from your recent casper changes?
<seb128> ah, changelog says it was changed to ctrl-C on purpose
<didrocks> libmtp regressed, canât transfer any "big files" anymore to the sd card of my phone anymore and the error is quite cryptique. Weâll see later by bluetooth never worked, mtp was flacky and now, no more solution :(
<seb128> didrocks, what's the error?
<didrocks> seb128: libmtp error: Could not send object info.
<seb128> didrocks, does it do it at a random time?
<didrocks> quite cryptic and googling just shows up bugs from 2012 with some workarounds, but I guess itâs a bag mix of things
<seb128> :-/
<didrocks> seb128: no, I have it reliably when I start doing the file transfer
<didrocks> only for big files on the sd card
<seb128> you could try to install the libmtp from bionic see if that fixes it I guess
<didrocks> (sd card from my phone)
<seb128> could also be the kernel or something else...
<didrocks> do you think nautilus will still work? (no libc or such?)
<seb128> apt will tell you if some depends is unhappy
<jamesh> yay.  https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8289 has been merged
<gitbot> snapcore issue (Pull request) 8289 in snapd "xdgopenproxy: forward requests to the desktop portal" [Squash-Merge, Closed]
<seb128> but otherwise just rebuild the bionic libmtp on focal
<seb128> to pikc right depends
<seb128> libmtp doesn't change much, I doubt anything requires a new symbol or anything like that
<seb128> jamesh, wooot, well done :)
<didrocks> well, apt wonât tell me as Iâll dpkg :p
<jamesh> fewer ugly Zenity dialogs
<seb128> didrocks, if you dpkg and apt -f install it will tell you if things are in a way apt doesn't like it usually
<seb128> and probably suggest to upgrade libmtp in that case probably
<seb128> (yes, hackish way ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, so no conflict, but after killing nautilus and all *mtp* processes, replug the phone, select mtp, no way to access my phone content by mtp anymore
<didrocks> /usr/libexec/gvfs-mtp-volume-monitor is started though
<didrocks> but nautilus is spinning forever
<seb128> :-/
<seb128> didrocks, no gvfsd-mtp ?
<didrocks> maybe maybe I should kill the gvfs processes as well?
<didrocks> no
<seb128> try starting it by hand
<seb128> maybe it does want a new symbol...
<didrocks> /usr/libexec/gvfsd-mtp: symbol lookup error: /usr/libexec/gvfsd-mtp: undefined symbol: LIBMTP_Move_Object
<seb128> :(
<didrocks> apt didnât complain
<didrocks> see :p
<seb128> you win :)
<didrocks> unsure itâs a win TBH :p
<seb128> well "win"
<seb128> right...
<didrocks> it was still working a week ago
<didrocks> so, Iâll rather try 1.1.17-2 just in case
<seb128> debian/libmtp9.symbols: LIBMTP_Move_Object@Base 1.1.16
<seb128> yu can try 1.1.16 from disco/eoan
<didrocks> I doubt that itâs 1.1.17-3 which broke it
<didrocks> seb128: as -2 was working, letâs go the easy path
<didrocks> to at least single out libmtp
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> -3 only changed udev rules
<seb128> to not claim devices that are printer
<seb128> so I doubt it's the issue
<didrocks> same
<didrocks> gvfsd-mtp exits
<didrocks> and nautilus spins forever
<didrocks> maybe should kill all gvfsd processes
<didrocks> anyway, wonât logout/login back
<didrocks> but I feel this is a regression from another part of the stack
<didrocks> transferring files to phone has always been an issue at least on my phones, dunno why :/
<didrocks> (and when I got the error, nothing in the journal)
<duflu> seb128, just caught up, yes that's from casper
<Laney> morning
<didrocks> hey Laney 
<seb128> hey Laney, how are you? happy beta testing day!
<duflu> Ain't that the truth
<duflu> Morning Laney
<Laney> hey didrocks seb128 duflu 
<Laney> straight into it!
<duflu> seb128, fyi it doesn't sound like PulseAudio 14 will be tagged soon: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/pulseaudio/pulseaudio/-/issues/733 but I also know of no reason why that would be a problem for us
<duflu> Just not a clean version number
<seb128> right
<xnox> seb128: so S was brand new, and I changed to the thing that fckd uses.... Such that "everything" works the same... That's one of the things I need to check that help message about ctrl+c is shown....
<seb128> we can SRU it and have it for .1 if it's late
<seb128> xnox, it works for us but looks like some flavor might have their theme not ready for that
<xnox> (in-focal regression basically, cause S was visible, and available only briefly in Focal)
<seb128> right
<xnox> Horum
<xnox> If they use ubuntu-logo like themes, I guess I can generate per-theme messages...
<marcustomlinson> morning desktoppers
<xnox> Or do integrity check by default only on flavours that have Plymouth integration working
<didrocks> hey marcustomlinson!
<seb128> hey marcustomlinson, how are you today?
<seb128> xnox, good news is that md5checksum and shutdown message are working now on the beta ISO for Ubuntu :)
<marcustomlinson> hey didrocks, seb128, doing fine thanks you?
<seb128> doing good, thanks!
<didrocks> marcustomlinson: good good
<seb128> Trevinho, bonjouno!
<duflu> Morning marcustomlinson and Trevinho?
<duflu> and xnox
<marcustomlinson> hey duflu!
<duflu> xnox, I observe that bluetoothd doesn't seem to leave core dumps and we don't get crash reports. Even when my kernel log shows a crash. Is that some systemd config?
<xnox> duflu: do you have apport & whoopsie installed and enabled?!
<duflu> Yes, other things leave .crash files
<duflu> Hmm
<xnox> Huh?! Hmmm indeed
<duflu> But also errors.ubuntu.com doesn't show us crashes from anyone's
<duflu> Only from supplementary bluez binaries
<xnox> duflu: Open a bug report against Bluetooth&whoopsie and we can investigate.
<xnox> And tag it champagne
<seb128> duflu, did you keep the buggy .config/pulse ? could be interesting to upstream, they asked for it befor
<duflu> seb128, no, I just wrote that in the bug :(
<duflu> I did not feel it was valuable to me at the time
<duflu> But if that's the issue then good news: progress!
<Wimpress> Morning desktoppers
<marcustomlinson> morning Wimpress
<jamesh> tkamppeter: if you want to chat about the cups changes at some point, just ask
<duflu> Morning Wimpress 
<didrocks> morning Wimpress 
<Laney> anyone noticed gnome-disks not giving progress updates when it's burning isos?
<Laney> like some callback isn't happening or something
<duflu> seb128, bad news is that I have good news: Another update is needed: bug 1838725
<ubot5> bug 1838725 in plymouth (Ubuntu) "Plymouth fails to display graphical splash screens on some machines, shows text mode dots animation instead." [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1838725
<duflu> I'm hoping that will help with Nvidia too, as well as AMD systems mentioned upstream
<duflu> Will find out another day
<oSoMoN> xnox, do you know when you'll be able to review my nodejs 10.19.0Â merge? there's a firefox 75.0 RC that requires it as a build dep
<Wimpress> tkamppeter: Hi there.
<Wimpress> Are you aware of this issue? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cups/+bug/1869981
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1869981 in cups (Ubuntu) "Printer notification every day at midnight" [Undecided,New]
<xnox> oSoMoN:  today, let me see
<oSoMoN> cool, thanks!
<tkamppeter> Wimpress, no, this is the first time someone reporting it.
<Wimpress> OK
<tkamppeter> Wimpress, can be that it is due to CUPS being stopped and restarted for logrotate at midnight, perhaps one needs to somehow turn off notifications during this process.
<tkamppeter> Wimpress, probably the new GNOME is more verbose, generating notification pop-ups in situations where the old version did not.
<tkamppeter> Wimpress, on CUPS there were no recent changes, the 2.3.1 release was already several months ago and now Apple is re-structuring and therefore they did not issue a new CUPS version.
<tkamppeter> Wimpress, what is the GNOME component receiving the CUPS events and deciding which ones are worth notifying about? We need to move this bug to that component.
<mdeslaur> I started getting that on 18.04 for the past month or so
<mdeslaur> or perhaps the past couple of weeks
<Wimpress> seb128 Create job on the spinner theme :D
<tkamppeter> mdeslaur, AFAIK there was no update of CUPS in 18.04 in the last weeks. Did perhaps any GNOME components get updated which could have changed notification behavior.
<mdeslaur> good question
<mdeslaur> tkamppeter: the kernel isn't involved in this at all, is it?
<mdeslaur> I don't see anything sticking out as being a problematic update
<tkamppeter> mdeslaur, no, the kernel cannot be the culprit.
<mdeslaur> I'll try and investigate more tomorrow morning once I get the notification again
<mdeslaur> tkamppeter: is there a particular log file I can look at to see those events?
<tkamppeter> mdeslaur, CUPS has a D-Bus service for notifications. GNOMe subscribes to certain notification events and pops up notification, not necessarily for all events.
<tkamppeter> mdeslaur, if you run CUPS in debug mode ("LogLevel debug" in cupsd.conf) /var/log/cups/error_log should show when CUPS has served a notification to a client, but there one cannot see how the client will use it.
<mdeslaur> tkamppeter: ok, I'll set it to debug mode and will comment in the bug if I see anything interesting, thanks tkamppeter 
<mdeslaur> tkamppeter: I just did systemctl restart cups after adding the debug line, and the notification popped up
<mdeslaur> tkamppeter: could it coincide with the logrotate?
<Wimpress> Hey desktoppers
<Wimpress> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/chiPB8gm/Screenshot%20from%202020-04-01%2013-33-35.png
<Wimpress> Ideas for apps to list in that âï¸ which add value to the desktop.
<didrocks> zoom-client, given the context :)
<oSoMoN> that would be timely
<tkamppeter> mdeslaur, yes, logrotate stops CUPS, rotates the logs and starts CUPS, so you should be able to reproduce the bug by simply stopping and starting CUPS, as you did now.
<seb128> Wimpress, thanks, credit goes to duflu as well :)
<clobrano> Wimpress, Telegram is quite used nowadays 
<clobrano> ...talking about suggested apps
<Wimpress> clobrano1: Telegram is in the list, just not shown in that screenshot ð
<Trevinho> Wimpress: Very nice. For future iterations, would probably be nice to also provide a combo list depending on the type of user you are... Like my mum won't be interested by PyCharm CE (I'm also curious how she would spell that xD), but maybe she might enjoy play a game or well, I mean, these are a great selection for developers, although they normally know how to find things, while casual
<Trevinho> users might be the one who need more "initial traininig"
<seb128> hey Trevinho, how are you?
<Trevinho> hi seb128 all good :)
<seb128> Trevinho, did you test your patch on upstream shell or on the ubuntu package?
<Trevinho> you?
<seb128> good, thanks
<seb128> Trevinho, I still see snap-store with that patch applied to the focal package...
<Trevinho> seb128: well, I've tested locally in my dev env, but it's just like ubuntu as I've the same XDG_RUNTIME_DESKTOP set
<seb128> Trevinho, do you have ubuntu patches applied
<seb128> or is it upstream code?
<Trevinho> seb128: snap store version in snap (store) has not the notshowin thingy no?
<seb128> Trevinho, you need the beta channel one
<seb128> see my email
<Trevinho> seb128: let my try with both, but...
<seb128> can you test that?
<Trevinho> seb128: yeah, I don't care much I just modified it and added to my apps
<Trevinho> let me try again
<seb128> Trevinho, https://launchpadlibrarian.net/472012147/gnome-shell_3.36.0-2ubuntu3~debug3_3.36.0-2ubuntu3~build1.diff.gz
<seb128> Trevinho, the debdiff is abit weird because I had before tried to disable some distro patches to make sure it was not it
<seb128> Trevinho, wait, let me check something :p
<Trevinho> seb128: works here... check the visual check in telegram :)
<seb128> Trevinho, sorry, works for me as well now, teaching me trying one last cycle at midnight :p
<Trevinho> seb128: the only option could be that GLib.getenv('XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP') is null when the shell is ran? But I assume not, as that should be set
<seb128> Trevinho, I had another set of shell debs in the same dir which had another revision and I did dpkg -IO *.deb which ended up with the other version
<seb128> Trevinho, sorry for the noise, it works :)
<Trevinho> ahah good for once you had a false-positive!!! :-D
 * Trevinho celebrateeees
 * seb128 sets the bug back to fix commited
<seb128> hehe$
<hellsworth> good morning desktopers
<marcustomlinson> hey hellsworth
<hellsworth> o/ marcustomlinson !
<seb128> hey Heather
<didrocks> hey hellsworth!
<hellsworth> hi seb128 , didrocks !
<seb128> kenvandine, hey, replying to your email here rather
<kenvandine> good morning hellsworth 
<kenvandine> hey seb128 
<seb128> kenvandine, is the shell issue the only thingblocking you to land the beta snap-store version to stable?
<kenvandine> no
<seb128> so it's not an issue for beta?
<seb128> I think Trevinho is going to want to land .1 with some other fixes after beta, so that can wait for that right?
<kenvandine> it would be nice to have the shell fix in beta
<seb128> why?
<seb128> if it has no impact
<kenvandine> just so the beta release has the right desktop file
<kenvandine> the beta snap is actually in focal :)
<seb128> do we install the snap from beta?
<Trevinho> well, aren't we in freeze  now?
<seb128> ah
<seb128> Trevinho, we are
<kenvandine> it's also on ubuntu-20.04
<Trevinho> so.... 
<kenvandine> it's fine for after beta
<seb128> kenvandine, I would suggest you just amend the .desktop until we land the fix
<seb128> remove the onlyshowin
<seb128> and make snap-store NoDisplay=true?
<kenvandine> I can do that
<seb128> everyone gets ubuntu-software this one for beta
<kenvandine> cool
<seb128> we are not likely to see a gnome-shell upload migrating and land on a respin for that issue
<seb128> thx
<seb128> Trevinho, we are frozen but we take fixes for bugs we consider milestone blockers
<seb128> that one could be considered one
<seb128> but I think just realxing the .desktop rules as a workaround is easier
<kenvandine> we can work around it in the snap
<seb128> thx
<kenvandine> since the snap from that channel is only in focal
<seb128> Trevinho, just make sure to cherry pick that one with your next upload please :)
<Trevinho> yeah, sure it's already done
<KGB-0> gnome-shell ubuntu/master 017beae Marco Trevisan (TreviÃ±o) debian/patches/ series main-Don-t-override-DesktopAppInfo-desktop-if-already-GNO.patch * debian/patches: Don't override DestkopAppInfo desktop env * https://deb.li/jZev
<Trevinho> seb128: ^
<KGB-0> gnome-shell ubuntu/master 58f5f8e Marco Trevisan (TreviÃ±o) debian/patches/ series main-Don-t-override-DesktopAppInfo-desktop-if-already-GNO.patch * debian/patches: Don't override DestkopAppInfo desktop env * https://deb.li/3TMSU
<seb128> Trevinho, thanks
<seb128> kenvandine, ^
<Laney> stop force pushing!
<Trevinho> Laney: :*
<kenvandine> Trevinho, seb128 thanks
<Trevinho> Laney: that was just to be nicer on patch-tagging adding the bug-ubuntu line I forgot
<Trevinho> (although it was mentioned in commit for gbp dch love)
<Laney> riiiiight, that probably didn't need to be a force push
<Laney> anyway, consider yourself spanked
<seb128> Laney, re gnome-disks, what do you call 'burning iso'? I've a nice progress bar updating correctly when I do 'restore image' to an usb stick
<Laney> that
<seb128> k, so it's not a 'buggy for everyone'
<xnox> oSoMoN:  nodejs uploaded, although i think we can drop portions of delta around acorn stuff, but not too sure. Will revisit later.
<oSoMoN> xnox, ack, thanks a bunch!
<Laney> who wants to write some cool things in the beta release notes?
<Laney> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FocalFossa/ReleaseNotes
<Laney> there's sections for neat stuff you worked on
<iam730> are there any twitter desktop clients that are better than just plain twitter.com in a standard browser?
<KGB-2> mutter debian/master Simon McVittie * [update] merge request !58: WIP: 3.36.1 * https://deb.li/3cOHh
<seb128> Trevinho, Laney, ^ should we only be notified about ubuntu/master?
<robert_ancell> kenvandine, do you have an issue where snapcraft stops finding the gnome-3-34 extension? I installed candidate, but now my build is complaining again - is there a different version inside the VM?
<kenvandine> yes
<kenvandine> the VM refreshes to stable
<robert_ancell> :/
<kenvandine> snapcraft --debug
<kenvandine> snap refresh --candidate snapcraft
<kenvandine> in the debug shell 
<kenvandine> then you'll be good
<kenvandine> sergio has a fix in the pipe somewhere
<robert_ancell> Does that stick?
<kenvandine> yes
<kenvandine> once you refresh it, it'll stick
<robert_ancell> Nice.
<Laney> seb128: It doesn't apply to merge requests
<Laney> Someone needs to work on a change to do that
<Laney> hint
<seb128> Laney, ah, ok
<seb128> hint taken, maybe for my next hackday, I should try to have one of those every now and then, was nice when we did it
<seb128> kenvandine, NotShowIn=ubuntu:GNOME; sounds weird/buggy, why would you do that?
<kenvandine> we don't want snap-store to show in ubuntu:GNOME
<seb128> does it work?
<seb128> I don't think the spec allows for that
<seb128> you don't want it to show in 'ubuntu'
<kenvandine> oh... are you sure?
<seb128> GNOME is a fallback in the definition
<kenvandine> i was worried about effecting flavors
<seb128> ?
<kenvandine> like MATE maybe
<seb128> no flavor claims to be 'ubuntu' afaik?
<kenvandine> ok
<kenvandine> good ;)
<kenvandine> then i can change it
<kenvandine> for now i've published it with the workaround
<seb128> great
<kenvandine> and that's working
<kenvandine> but of course i don't want that to ever go to stable :)
<seb128> right
<seb128> well the shell fix is fix commited
<seb128> so you can revert after beta
<kenvandine> yup
<seb128> kenvandine, bug #1870184 ... is 'snap-store' supposed to show debs?
<ubot5> bug 1870184 in snap-store "Snap store not showing ubuntu repository apt apps inthe store" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1870184
<seb128> kenvandine, to me it looks like from the screenshot they just got the wrong variant and have snaps only (the showonlyin bug)
<kenvandine> Well, I'm seeing this currently as well
<kenvandine> But couldn't reproduce it on today's daily image
<seb128> 'snap-store" I though only had the snap plugin enabled
<seb128> unlike snap-store.ubuntu-software?
<kenvandine> It actually doesn't matter which desktop file you click
<seb128> or did I get that wrong?
<seb128> ah
<seb128> same code, the .desktop is only reflecting the runtime capacity?
<kenvandine> Yeah
<seb128> k
<kenvandine> Just for display
<KGB-0> mutter debian/master Simon McVittie * [update] merge request !58: WIP: 3.36.1 * https://deb.li/3cOHh
<KGB-0> gnome-shell debian/master Simon McVittie * [update] merge request !37: WIP: 3.36.1 * https://deb.li/PVai
#ubuntu-desktop 2020-04-02
<callmepk> Good morning
<duflu> Hi callmepk 
<jamesh> hi callmepk, duflu 
<duflu> Morning jamesh 
<callmepk> Monring duflu, jamesh 
<callmepk> *Morning
<duflu> RAOF, this will be handy: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/mesa/mesa/-/commit/fa5e800e05
<duflu> It's been so long coming. I really shouldn't be excited about it
<Wimpress> Hi duflu o/
<duflu> Hi Wimpress 
<duflu> Bit late?
<Wimpress> jamesh: o/
<RAOF> Heh.
<jamesh> hi Wimpress 
<Wimpress> Yeah, I have war stories about Z390 motherboards, memory timings and nvidia drivers in Ubuntu 
<Wimpress> Also, duflu, thanks for digging into Plymouth. 
<duflu> Wimpress, no worries. I am still affected by a couple more bugs in there I hope to fix
<duflu> on various machines
<Wimpress> The spinner theme is working brilliantly across a range of devices I have with different IGPs and GPUs. 
<duflu> Well, hopefully many machines but not enough of my machines yet
<Wimpress> If there are bugs still, I can't obviously see them them. 
<Wimpress> Also, jamesh, apologies in advance. I won't be making the snapd code review call later. 
<Wimpress> It's nearly 3am here. 
<jamesh> Wimpress: no problem.
<Wimpress> Sleep required before resuming the beta sprint and then the Snapcraft Summit which is PDT timezone. 
<jamesh> virtual summits are hard when you're in the wrong time zone :(
<Wimpress> Indeed. 
<Wimpress> Also, really appreciate your diligence on Firefox and snap integration. 
<jamesh> Wimpress: btw, the xdg-open improvements should be making their way into snapd 2.44.2.  This will make existing snaps that call /usr/bin/xdg-open talk to xdg-desktop-portal if it is available
<jamesh> so no more ugly zenity dialog when opening local files
<amurray> jamesh: wooo! that is awesome!
<Wimpress> jamesh: That's wonderful news. 
<Wimpress> amurray: Hello there ð
<amurray> hey Wimpress :) 
<amurray> Wimpress: burning the midnight oil?
 * Wimpress considers sleepless nights to chat with all the interesting people down under ð
<Wimpress> Yeah, burning the 3am oil. 
<Wimpress> It's that kind of week.
 * amurray will have to try and be boring enough to convince Wimpress to go to bed :)
<Wimpress> But nvidia drivers are broken and that an interesting problem to solve ð
<kenvandine> Wimpress!
<kenvandine> why are you up this late
<kenvandine> jamesh: FYI there's a snapd snap published which contains the browser-support PR and your portalinfo PR
<kenvandine> it's published on latest/candidate/mar-2020-snapcraft-summit
<kenvandine> works quite nicely
<jamesh> great
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<jamesh> morning oSoMoN 
<oSoMoN> hey jamesh, how are you?
<jamesh> good.
<jamesh> bringing my ancient snapd dbus-activation branch back up to date now that the user-daemons branch is pretty much done
<oSoMoN> good that things are moving forward on this front
<jibel> hi all
<seb128> goood morning desktopers!
<duflu> Morning seb128, oSoMoN, jibel 
<seb128> hey duflu, lut oSoMoN, jibel, how are you?
<duflu> OK. How are you seb128?
<seb128> duflu, I'm good thanks!
<jibel> seb128, doing alright. Thanks.
<seb128> duflu, do you have any idea why #Restart=on-failure is commented in the bluez bluetooth.service? would it be a good idea to enable it?
<duflu> seb128, no. I was wondering why it didn't restart actually
<duflu> Probably a good idea to enable it
<seb128> duflu, k, I will do that
<seb128> duflu, also did you see that I commented on the apport not triggering issue?
<duflu> Bluetooth? Yes
<duflu> seb128, I wonder if LimitCORE=infinity would override protection without having to remove it
<duflu> "it" meaning ProtectSystem=full
<seb128> duflu, I will test, but probably more a problem on the apport side to fix?
<duflu> I have no idea about apport
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> Morning didrocks 
<seb128> ProtectSystem makes /usr /boot /etc read only from the manpage
<seb128> lut didrocks, comment Ã§a va ?
<duflu> seb128, so it shouldn't break core dumps(?)
<seb128> duflu, unless the apport job is triggered from the same env and tries to write into one of the locations? I will check that
<oSoMoN> salut jibel, seb128, didrocks 
<oSoMoN> hey duflu 
<didrocks> good morning duflu, seb128, oSoMoN 
<didrocks> Ã§a va :) et vous ?
<seb128> Ã§a va bien!
<oSoMoN> la forme!
<marcustomlinson> morning oSoMoN jamesh jibel seb128 duflu didrocks
<duflu> Hi marcustomlinson 
<didrocks> good morning marcustomlinson 
<jamesh> morning marcustomlinson 
<Laney> moin!
<duflu> Hi Laney
<didrocks> hey Laney 
<seb128> hey Laney, jamesh, marcustomlinson, how are you today?
<marcustomlinson> yo Laney
<marcustomlinson> doing ok thanks seb128
<marcustomlinson> you?
<seb128> I'm good thx
<oSoMoN> good morning marcustomlinson, Laney 
<didrocks> good morning marcustomlinson 
<Laney> hey duflu didrocks seb128 marcustomlinson oSoMoN 
<RAOF> Urgh. If the first step of any âGNOME Shell is being sillyâ bug is to disable extensions, why do we allow extensions to be enabled *at all*?
<duflu> RAOF, yeah I kind of want to block bug reports automatically on that. But I was being easier on you than on most
<RAOF> duflu: no, I mean if it's *that* buggy isn't it a disservice to our users to allow them to load extensions *at all*?
<duflu> RAOF: I have thought about that but imagine the complaints... probably worse than the bug reports
<RAOF> (The bug is also not NVIDIA related, because it happens on both my desktop and my ATI/Intel laptop)
<RAOF> duflu: is there a way we could make loading extensions an obviously-dangerous act?
<RAOF> Alternatively, is there a way we could go back to a sensible architecture, like Unity 8? ð
<duflu> Well people won't miss what they never had
<duflu> That is in a system without extensions
 * RAOF would also accept âsensibleâ architectures like compiz-unity ð
<duflu> RAOF: Actually most of my requests were not extension-related in your bug so sorry if the numbering implies a required ordering
<RAOF> I also have a gperfmon trace for you on the memory-usage bug, once I've uploaded it.
<RAOF> Both of those will wait for tomorrow.
<KGB-1> mutter ubuntu/master Daniel van Vugt * [open] merge request !59: changelog: Remove a spurious line that should have been deleted * https://deb.li/AOWU
<KGB-1> mutter ubuntu/master Iain Lane * [merge] merge request !59: changelog: Remove a spurious line that should have been deleted * https://deb.li/AOWU
<KGB-1> gnome-shell-extensions pristine-tar 7ea702c Simon McVittie gnome-shell-extensions_3.36.1.orig.tar.xz.delta gnome-shell-extensions_3.36.1.orig.tar.xz.id * pristine-tar data for gnome-shell-extensions_3.36.1.orig.tar.xz * https://deb.li/ilJYM
<KGB-1> gnome-shell-extensions tags a215b75 Simon McVittie upstream/3.36.1 * Upstream version 3.36.1 * https://deb.li/22n
<RAOF> Why, hello there `gnome-software --gapplication-service`. Good of you to be using 1.3GB RSS while not actually being used!
<KGB-1> gnome-shell ubuntu/master Daniel van Vugt * [open] merge request !38: Keep the Ubuntu logo bright (LP: #1867133) * https://deb.li/KBHi
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1867133 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu logo vanishes and fades back in (with a slightly different size) on gdm start" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1867133
<duflu> Huh, the bots are communicating
<xnox> didrocks:  duflu: so, ubuntu-logo theme never showed Ctrl+C fsckd message correctly (buggy logic that eats it), the new spinner theme does show it correctly, and I am now suspecting that we flicker that message on every boot now, even though there are no fscks to run; as if systemd-fsckd pushes that message out first, then starts fscks, realiases no fscks are needed, and that it. Now the question is
<xnox> if systemd-fsckd should like push the ctrl+c message after a delay (i.e. 1s after starting fscks), and abort pushing it out, if all fscks have completed by then.
<xnox> or if the theme should be "smart" enough to hold up the ctrl+c message, until after there are fsckd progress.
<duflu> xnox: I was guessing myself. It's not in the spec
<didrocks> xnox: are you sure about the never showed Ctrl+C? I tested everything at the implementation time. Maybe a later merge from someone broke it rather :p
<didrocks> on the order, thatâs interesting, let me check
<didrocks> (finishing some iso testing first)
<duflu> xnox: If it makes it easier for you I can change the behaviour of 104.patch to better match the existing stuff. Just specify how
<xnox> didrocks: right, i'm looking at current focal state, so can't tell when the regression happened. I think the logic is correct under "fake messages" debug labels =)
<xnox> didrocks:  let me try a few different themes again.
<xnox> duflu:  i think in the old "fsck" (mountall/upstart) messages the theme did stuff like "store these messages, and flash them only when progress received, like an actual percentage" with lots of comments like "TODO move all of this logic to mountall, we just show what it tells us, without doing all of this scripting logic"
<xnox> duflu:  i guess in the future, where it is a mode, we would switch to the new mode, only when fscks are determined to be needed to run, and they are like producing output.
<didrocks> xnox: so, you are incorrect
<didrocks> fsckd only send Ctrl+C when it has the first % from fsck ready to be send
<didrocks> so, if you donât have fsck in progress, the Ctrl+C message wonât be displayed
<xnox> aha, so that's nice.
<didrocks> however, on the first progress report:
<didrocks> - if ctrl+C not send -> send it (only once thus)
<didrocks> - then send the progress
<didrocks> sent*
<xnox> which is a bit backwards, especially if progress is >98.9%
<didrocks> I donât think itâs illogical to send the ctrl+C message first, whatever pourcentage you are going to send (which is != 100%)
<duflu> Although that implies different behaviour between fsckd-cancel-msg: and keys: because the latter is not fsck-specific
<duflu> Unless someone can point to a spec for the "keys:" thing
<xnox> i think we can forget about "keys:" no?
<duflu> OK, doesn't matter then
<duflu> xnox: Want fsckd-cancel-msg to auto-vanish?
<xnox> that's the other thing, does fsckd ever remove the cancel-msg, after it is done?
<xnox> or if it is transalted
<xnox> i guess i want logs from it.
<duflu> I assumed it would, but I could be wrong
<duflu> Mostly because I was generalising for keys:
<xnox> plymouth-theme-ubuntu-gnome-logo => still exists! fun
<duflu> The upstream proposal is unlikely to ever land but it's useful as SCM and for auto-generating patches. I can change it to do whatever is easiest for Ubuntu
<seb128> duflu, why do you think it's unlikely to land?
<duflu> seb128, because upstream said so :)
<seb128> duflu, ah, I though you were speaking about !106 but the comment is about !104?
<duflu> I mentioned that in the status update this week I think?
<duflu> Yes, those two
<seb128> but yes, the current patch we can change as fits us
<duflu> Ah, no I didn't state it in the status update
<xnox> oh
<didrocks> xnox: r = plymouth_send_message(m->plymouth_fd, "", false) when the checks are finished (which should clear both content)
<seb128> duflu, well, I've been following the upstream MR, I just though you were saying the mode approach from 106 where not likely to ever land upstream
<xnox> duflu:  "fsckd:1:%d:Checking in progress on 1 disk (%d%% complete)"
<seb128> duflu, but you were speaking about the current patch, so ignore my comment
<duflu> I'm not sure how to respond without creating confusion
 * duflu nods
<xnox> duflu:  my understanding was "fsckd:NUMBER_OF_DISKS:PERCENT_COMPLETE:FALLBACK MESSAGE" where fallback message, is not shown on graphical plymouth, and only like shown/recorded as messages if one clicks ESC
<xnox> duflu:  or am I understanding this wrong.....
<xnox> duflu:  i wonder what i should be sending there.
<xnox> (in casper md5sum) as we now have duplicate messages
 * duflu is checking
<duflu> xnox: It's not a "fallback". The implication is that it's the main message shown with disk checking
<xnox> duflu:  ack! i shall fix it then
<duflu> xnox: man systemd-fsckd.service
<duflu> Though that's confusing because there's a separate main message in plymouth which I remember before/after disk checks
<duflu> The spec is too vague to say if that's right or wrong
<duflu> So I assume the display-message should just be hidden and superseded by fsckd: while that's active
<duflu> iirc
<xnox> duflu:  https://people.canonical.com/~xnox/casper-fsck.png
<xnox> duflu:  so the first message is "generated by the theme", the second message is ":<string>" from fsckd, and last is the keycode.
<xnox> duflu:  imho we have 3 progress bars here =) one visual, and two % ones
<xnox> duflu:  i'd rather keep the first line for the regular display-message stuff; and make the theme override whatever was passed as <string> with the Checking disks: 6% complete (or blank?) and keep the Ctrl+C message
<xnox> duflu: for now, i will change casper, to emit empty :<string> in that message to at least kill one of the messages
<duflu> xnox: Are you saying you want the first line to come from display-message ?
<xnox> duflu:  for casper yes, because we flash individual file names there "Checking capser/filesystem.squashfs" etc.
<xnox> duflu:  for regular fsckd not sure, we could flash errors/warnings there.
<xnox> duflu:  or a heading
<xnox> or maybe it shouldn't be there
<xnox> duflu:  somehow i was expecting just the progress bar, no text about % progress, and the Ctrl+C line to cancel.
<xnox> duflu:  and the checking disks 68% done be in ESC output only
 * xnox ponders what is happening on the ESC output, one sec.
<duflu> I'm trying to EOD but I am now too confused to offer a fix today. Maybe you can email me :)
<duflu> if anything needs fixing
<xnox> duflu:  i am confused too =) i need UX/UI design people to tell me how it should look like
<duflu> xnox, if ubuntu-logo is right I will check that again and see if it's not being emulated well enough
<duflu> ð¤·
<duflu> Night...
<seb128> night duflu!
<seb128> mvo, hey, could you change the maintainer from https://launchpad.net/update-notifier to ubuntu-core-dev?
<mvo> seb128: sure, one sec
<mvo> seb128: done
<seb128> mvo, thanks
<seb128> mvo, I converted it to git and push as lp:update-notifier now
<mvo> seb128: nice
<xnox> yeah, i have weird things to show to duflu
<seb128> xnox, email or launchpad if you don't want to wait for tomorrow morning
<GunnarHj> Hey seb128,
<seb128> hey GunnarHj, how are you?
<GunnarHj> seb128: Since you now is a proud member of ~ubuntu-translations-coordinators, do you have an idea how to handle this kind of request properly:
<GunnarHj> https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations/+question/688978
<GunnarHj> The https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-l10n-ta team is apparently abandoned by the owner and the other admin, and several applications to join the team have been left unanswered. A complication is that the guy who offers to take over is someone without an Ubuntu record as far as LP is concerned.
<GunnarHj> Is this an rt.ubuntu.com thing? Other ideas?
<GunnarHj> seb128: I'm ok, thank you.
<seb128> GunnarHj, easiest is to try to contact the current admin asking them to add someone, that's what I did for ~ubuntu-translations-coordinators ... but yeah, if that doesn't work then you need a RT
<Beret> Hi all - why is the vendor splash remaining up on the screen during boot in focal?
<seb128> Beret, hey, because that's what modern OS-es do, win10 does the same
<seb128> Beret, that's the only way to have a smooth boot without transition or flicker
<seb128> Beret, that somewhat fails/look less nice if for some reason you have a grub menu though (like multibooting or being old school)
<GunnarHj> seb128: While David responds to emails, this owner has so far ignored the guy's application to join. So yeah, rt next.
<seb128> GunnarHj, I'm unsure request to join do trigger emails? also there is a difference between responding to an administrative request and to a personal email
<seb128> GunnarHj, I do tend to be lazy on e.g list moderations or applications reviews and could ignore those for a while but I do respond to emails
<seb128> GunnarHj, same, David was not dealing with ~ubuntu-translations-coordinators requests but responded to a private email
<GunnarHj> seb128: I get the point. Maybe try a personal email first.
<seb128> right
<seb128> GunnarHj, also I'm unsure about promoting that guy admin, as you said his launchpad account is new. We don't know who he is and he has no activity there
<GunnarHj> seb128: Right. I think we would need to establish a proper procedure for cases like this. I fear that the situation is the same for more teams.
<seb128> indeed :/
<seb128> is gedit untranslated for others as well?
<oSoMoN> seb128, wfm
<seb128> oSoMoN, spanish or french? did you do the update and have your local built deb?
<didrocks> translated in french here
<seb128> k, thanks
<oSoMoN> seb128, French, and IÂ have a clean update
<seb128> I guess it makes it a local issue
<seb128> shrug, my own stupidity
<seb128> thanks fro replying oSoMoN and didrocks!
<didrocks> yw :)
<seb128> I have to change LC_ALL to fix session-migration tests, they don't work under fr_FR
<seb128> had
<seb128> and I still has that set
<didrocks> probably the test script should set it, sorry!
<Beret> seb128, ok thanks
<seb128> Beret, np, if you dislike it for some reason feel free to open a bug with your rational and we can get design's input
<Beret> seb128, I don't dislike it. It's clean and consistent - I just wanted to make sure the change was intentional and on purpose
<Beret> thanks
<seb128> Beret, good, and yw!
<ogra> bah ... the snap store in forcal doesnt expose the audio-record plug in the "permissions" window .... that makes a few of my snap just hard lock up (i.e. zoom-client)
<ogra> (this works on 18.04 and 16.04 btw)
<Wimpress> kenvandine: ^
<seb128> oh
<seb128> [Build #19100162] riscv64 build of atk1.0 2.35.1-1ubuntu1 in ubuntu focal RELEASE
<kenvandine> ogra: i just fixed that a couple days ago
<seb128> new arch seen :)
<kenvandine> it should be in the latest revision on latest/stable/ubuntu-20.04
<ogra> well, i downloaded dialy-live from cdimage
<ogra> *daily
<ogra> seems to be from yesterday
<jibel> ogra, latest build is 20200401, and there is a new one coming soon
<ogra> ok
<oSoMoN> ricotz, FYI, IÂ figured out the build failure on ppc64el/s390x on xenial and bionic: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1626972
<ubot5> Mozilla bug 1626972 in Untriaged "firefox fails to build on ppc64el and s390x with an old clang/libstdc++" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<ricotz> oSoMoN, \o/
<ogra> kenvandine, tried with upgrading snap-store, still no audio-record, do i need to use edge ?
<seb128> kenvandine, gedit master snap start failed to build because the tpl part is using autotools to build and they removed it now to only have meson
<seb128> (just a FYI, I still don't know how reliably those failure email reach you)
<kenvandine> ogra: it's in the stable/ubuntu-20.04 channel
<kenvandine> which is what's seeded
<kenvandine> once i work out the last of the issues there it'll get promoted to stable
<kenvandine> seb128: i'm ignoring failures on the master snaps for now
<kenvandine> once i get some other things off my plate i'll review all the snaps and fix any failures
<ogra> kenvandine, awesome, thanks !
<seb128> ricotz, hey, could you have a look to indicator-sound failing to build with the current vala?
<seb128> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/471371580/buildlog_ubuntu-focal-amd64.indicator-sound_12.10.2+18.10.20180612-0ubuntu1_BUILDING.txt.gz
<seb128>  /<<BUILDDIR>>/indicator-sound-12.10.2+18.10.20180612/src/notification.vala:22.2-22.20: error: Creation method of abstract class cannot be public.
<robert_ancell> github is broken :/
<robert_ancell> oh come on gh, sort your s*** out...
<robert_ancell> Looks like some of GitLab is back, but not mentioning users - kenvandine see https://github.com/snapcore/snapd-glib/pull/83
<gitbot> snapcore issue (Pull request) 83 in snapd-glib "Add support for new snap types: "core", "base" and "snapd"" [Open]
<kenvandine> robert_ancell: there doesn't seem to be a type "core"
<kenvandine> the core snap is type os
<kenvandine> core18 is type base
<robert_ancell> I think we can mark all base snaps as "essential"
<kenvandine> robert_ancell: i did a quick query of the store and found 4 uniq types in the store
<kenvandine> app, base, os, snapd
<kenvandine> robert_ancell: yeah
<robert_ancell> kenvandine, what is an OS snap?
<kenvandine> core
<kenvandine> i suspect that is more legacy
<robert_ancell> yeah.
<kenvandine> but regardless, we need to handle it
<robert_ancell> I figure we treat os and base as the same in g-s
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> so you can drop core from your PR
<robert_ancell> kenvandine, it's in snapd
<kenvandine> oh 
<kenvandine> just no sanps using it
<kenvandine> snaps
<kenvandine> robert_ancell: ok, so we'll mark base, os, core, and snapd types as essential?
<robert_ancell> Yeah, I think so. Basically anything not app
<kenvandine> and add a hack to mark the content snaps from a static list for now?
<robert_ancell> Perhaps just that logic - != app, then it's "system"
<kenvandine> and snap-store as well
<robert_ancell> yeah.
<kenvandine> oh, you mean not having an app defined?
<kenvandine> or just the static list?
<kenvandine> i'd vote for the static list until we can talk to the snapd folks about a new type for content
<kenvandine> it would also be interesting if snapd could tell us if a snap was installed because it was needed or if a user specifically chose to install it
<robert_ancell> I mean if type != "app" then we mark it as not uninstallable.
<kenvandine> ok
<robert_ancell> kenvandine, yeah, that would be useful. And if it can be removed without affecting any existing snaps.
<kenvandine> yeah
#ubuntu-desktop 2020-04-03
<RAOF> Aww, yeah. Looks like removing a couple of extensions has broken my desktop's GNOME Shell!
<RAOF> Now, rather than taking 10s to unlock, it just immediately hits the âoh, no!â screen.
<RAOF> Hmmmm. Because apparently removing an extension from the extensions.gnome.org interface does *not* tell GNOME Shell not to try to load it next time?!
<RAOF> Soooo.
<RAOF> How would I disable extensions?
<RAOF> `dconf dump /org/gnome/shell/` shows `disable_user_extensions=true` and does not have an enabled-extensions key.
<jamesh> gnome-shell-extension-prefs?
<RAOF> Do I need to run that from a GNOME session?
<jamesh> not sure
<RAOF> Well, `gnome-extensions list` returns no output, so I *think* it thinks there are no enabled extensionsâ¦
<RAOF> After a reboot it's *still* trying to open the non-existent extension.
<RAOF> Oh. But `gnome-extensions` is failing with exit value 2, but no output.
<jamesh> maybe there is some detritus in ~/.local/share/gnome-shell ?
<kenvandine> RAOF: that isn't desirable :)
<kenvandine> robert_ancell: meeting?
<callmepk> Good morning
<robert_ancell> callmepk, hello!
<callmepk> Hi robert_ancell !
<RAOF> Ooooh!
<RAOF> There *was* some detritus, in `~/.local/share/gnome-shell/extension-updates`!
<RAOF> It looks like if there's something in there, GNOME Shell will unconditionally try to load the extension from `~/.local/share/gnome-shell/extensions/`. Which didn't exist.
<RAOF> And didn't respect any of the dconf settings.
<RAOF> I wonder if I can reproduce thatâ¦
<duflu> Oh hi callmepk, jamesh, RAOF, robert_ancell, kenvandine, world
<kenvandine> good morning duflu 
<callmepk> morning duflu 
<seb128> good morning desktopers!
<duflu> Morning seb128 
<seb128> hey duflu, happy friday! how are you today?
<duflu> seb128, going well I think. You?
<seb128> I'm good! a bit tired but it's friday so it's ok :)
<duflu> Life is so exciting these days I am looking forward to just leaving the house to check the mail
<seb128> :-/
<seb128> it's frustrating, we had grey sky and rain non stop until 10 days ago
<seb128> and now that we are locked down it's sunny and nice every day :/
<duflu> I have a lot of flowers in bloom and it's sunny still, so going outside is actually nice
<duflu> Just not too far
<seb128> that's something :)
<didrocks> good morning
<ricotz> good morning desktopers :)
<ricotz> seb128, hi, regarding indicator-sound https://paste.debian.net/plain/1138187
<duflu> Hi didrocks and ricotz 
<seb128> lut didrocks, comment Ã§a va ?
<seb128> ricotz, hey! how are you? thanks for the fix!
<didrocks> hey duflu, ricotz 
<didrocks> salut seb128, Ã§a va, et toi ?
<seb128> didrocks, Ã§a va bien :)
<ricotz> seb128, I am good, yw
<RAOF> duflu: Hopefully the gperftools trace in the GNOME Shell memory bug is helpful.
<duflu> Sounds good. If there's an email about that it hasn't arrived yet
<RAOF> Shell must do a lot of allocation, because gperftools absolutely murders its performance (like, 10 second pauses everywhere, minute-long login-times, and such)
<duflu> Unless you focus only on mmaps (which I recommend)
<duflu> HEAP_PROFILE_ONLY_MMAP
<jibel> morning all
<didrocks> salut jibel !
<jibel> Salut didrocks , en forme?
<didrocks> Ã§a va, et toi ?
<jibel> Ã§a va, longue veillÃ©e pour une release qui n'est jamais arrivÃ©e
<didrocks> ouais, jâai vu Ã§a :/
<jibel> et toujours pas lÃ  apparemment
<didrocks> nope
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<oSoMoN> happy Friday!
<didrocks> hey oSoMoN 
<duflu> Hi jibel and oSoMoN 
<jibel> Good morning duflu 
<seb128> lut jibel, oSoMoN
<seb128> jibel, they have issue with the image build time still? or is that another IS problem?
<Wimpress> Morning desktoppers
<seb128> hey Wimpress, how are you?
<didrocks> hey Wimpress 
<didrocks> seb128: the image is just published
<didrocks> seems like an issue with the network when doing the massive build tests the week of a beta
<seb128> well done d_oko!
<Wimpress> Bit tired, but catching up on iso build status, feeling optimistic ð
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks, jibel, seb128 
<oSoMoN> hey duflu, Wimpress 
<duflu> Morning Wimpress 
<Laney> moin
<didrocks> hey Laney 
<duflu> Hi Laney
<seb128> hey Laney, happy friday! how is it going? had another late night waiting for ISOs that didn't come or did you manage to call it a day on time yesterday?
<Laney> hey duflu didrocks seb128 
<Laney> no I was online until 00:15
<Laney> when we figured out it wasn't going to finish and decided to delay
<seb128> :-(
<Laney> yeah was hoping to do some other stuff today
<Laney> but I guess not really likely now
<Laney> oh well :p
<oSoMoN> morning Laney 
<marcustomlinson> morning all
<didrocks> hey marcustomlinson 
<Laney> hey oSoMoN marcustomlinson 
<seb128> hey marcustomlinson, how are you?
<marcustomlinson> seb128: tired :P but that comes with having a newborn
<marcustomlinson> how you today?
<seb128> indeed!
<seb128> a bit tired as well, for me it comes from school being closed and tried to work done at the same time, proove to be challenging!
<seb128> trying*
<marcustomlinson> hear, hear
<duflu> Morning marcustomlinson 
<duflu> seb128, good news: nvidia-440 does support full plymouth graphics. Just not at initrd time. And for a new reason different to the ThinkPads
<seb128> duflu, ah, nice! what's the reason?
<duflu> Wish I knew
<duflu> Nvidia keeps the kernel's efifb around and it works perfectly in testing. Just not when we want it
<duflu> Also the Nvidia driver does not VT switch reliably, so the lack of shutdown splash is a different issue
<seb128> I should get a nvidia machine at some point, would help testing & debugging things
<duflu> Seems to be a common sore point in the land of Ubuntu
<duflu> That's the main reason I still use desktops, so I can switch cards without switching machines
<xnox> du
<xnox> duflu: oooh. I have nvidia card.
<duflu> xnox, any help is welcome then: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/plymouth/plymouth/-/issues/103
<duflu> Confusing numbers
<xnox> duflu: "not at initrd time" how come? Surely we can do that on installer systems. Due to legal reasons, cannot do it on install media.
<duflu> xnox: This is an *installed* system
<duflu> Not installer related
<xnox> Ack!
<duflu> xnox, I don't support initrd is missing renderers/frame-buffer.so
<duflu> ?
<duflu> *suppose*
<duflu> I don't suppose
<xnox> duflu: we might have magic to force framebuffer off on Nvidia "cause it doesn't work"?!
<xnox> In the initrd.
<duflu> xnox, it does work after booting. Initrd never even tries it
<duflu> It doesn't load the renderer
<xnox> Ack. Most likely initramfs-tools bug that like blacklists framebuffer support.
<xnox> duflu:  so, bgrt booting on bios
<xnox> duflu:  can bgrt realiaze that there is no EFI oem logo? and can we have a stock vendor logo to show on the top? cause boot looks unbalanced with all that black space empty
<xnox> i wonder if we can ship lenovo/dell/asus/acer logos for use in bios boot
<xnox> horum
<duflu> xnox, Oh I just closed that bug because I thought the Ubuntu logo is enough in that case
<duflu> And if it bothers people, disabling legacy boot and CSM might give you back your bgrt, like my ThinkPad
<duflu> I think black is best in that case though. Otherwise the user gets 3 logos, not just 2
<xnox> duflu:  can you point me at the bug again?
<duflu> ...
<xnox> duflu:  re fsckd => i think you did everything right, and i fixed casper, and now it is pretty https://people.canonical.com/~xnox/casper-win.png
<xnox> this is how it looks when booted under bios
<duflu> xnox, bug 1837519
<ubot5> bug 1837519 in plymouth (Ubuntu) "plymouth-theme-spinner should show an Ubuntu logo" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1837519
<duflu> Oh, bigger font size?
<Wimpress> I am on nvidia only here. Plymouth appears to working correctly.
<duflu> Hmm
<Wimpress> Albeit, the wrong resolution.
<duflu> Wimpress, nvidia-440 driver?
<Wimpress> Can't confirm the remove media prompt. But I will test a full install on another nvidia only system.
<duflu> Nevermind I am making progress, but it's getting too late for this week
<Wimpress> duflu: Yes 440.
<duflu> Wimpress, yeah I know it can work because mine does after boot. Just something weird going on on my desktop
<xnox> Wimpress:  "remove media prompt" => you are testing installer right? we are talking about post-install-booted-system plymouth not working on boot.
<duflu> Wimpress, I verified that fix a few days ago
<xnox> Wimpress:  installer does not use nvidia graphics, because it legally cannot.
<duflu> it is fixed in 20200331 onward
 * xnox is possibly confused.
<Wimpress> Yes, I am also talking about post-install system.
<xnox> oh, ok.
 * xnox is confused
<xnox> nevermind and carry on
<Wimpress> But will do a full install test on an nvidia system later.
<xnox> duflu:  I somehow feel we need a fallback OEM graphic, like canonical circle logo
<xnox> (i.e. just as big as dell logo is)
<duflu> xnox, I wouldn't because that's too many visual changes.
<duflu> Not just because it's Friday night
<xnox> duflu:  i wonder, if we can fix qemu firmware to ship SeaBIOS logo that works in BIOS boot in VM =)
<duflu> It might be a problem with the structure of the bgrt, or it might be the BIOS hiding BGRT in non-pure-EFI boot modes
<duflu> And good night
<xnox> night!
<duflu> Either way, we can hack SeaBIOS
<xnox> and tianocore logo needs to improve
<duflu> Yeah
<duflu> Bye
<KGB-0> gnome-shell debian/master Simon McVittie * [merge] merge request !37: WIP: 3.36.1 * https://deb.li/PVai
<KGB-0> mutter debian/master Simon McVittie * [merge] merge request !58: WIP: 3.36.1 * https://deb.li/3cOHh
 * Laney melts into a puddle
<Laney> beta finally done
 * marcustomlinson hands Laney a beer
<Laney> thanks marcustomlinson, much required
<hellsworth> good morning desktopers
<marcustomlinson> hey hellsworth
<oSoMoN> hey hellsworth 
<kenvandine> good morning hellsworth 
<hellsworth> hi yall
<hellsworth> kenvandine: should i join the code and sysinternal snap meetings toay?
<didrocks> hey hellsworth, kenvandine 
<marcustomlinson> also hey kenvandine
<kenvandine> feeling the love :)
#ubuntu-desktop 2020-04-05
<RAOF> Fun bug! GNOME Shell will sometimes decide that my laptop display should be upside down. If I have âlock rotationâ enabled, this won't stop it but it will prevent me from simply rotating the laptop to get it to go the right way again :)
<robert_ancell> kenvandine, working on LP: #1867000 - I think the right behaviour is to launch g-s if that is available, and snap-store if it is not. Thoughts?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1867000 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "Clicking "Open in Software" in GNOME Settings does not open Snap Store" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1867000
<robert_ancell> For people who only have snap-store installed this won't make a difference. But if you've opted into g-s as well then we should probably default to using that.
