#ubuntu-nz 2011-04-04
<ojwb> morning
<Aginor> morning
<snail> just found a bit-flipped-in-transfer-error that wasn't automatically detected / corrected. first one in >10 years. I should probably stop transferring data via USB keydrives
<ojwb> hmm, interesting
<snail> morning all
<ajmitch> morning
<hads_> Morning
<hads> Discovered last night that it's not a good idea to check out the dev version of XBMC if you want to keep using the release version. Old version doesn't like the fact that it's database has been upgraded out from underneath it.
<hads> Several hours of figuring out the schema to manually roll back again since you don't have a backup.
<hads> Schema which consists of CREATE TABLE episode (c01, c02, c03, ...)
<Atamira> mornin
<ibeardsl1e> morning
<mwhudson> morning
<snail> ibeardslee: RE our discussion yesterday morning; last night i whipped up a pair of slides http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4479425/CompSciQuizes.odp
#ubuntu-nz 2011-04-05
<ojwb> Now I know where all the gs are bein' stockpiled
<ajmitch> morning
<ibeardslee> morning
<Atamira> morning
<snail> morning
<hads> Morning
<ajmitch> so, shipit.ubuntu.com is being discontinued, and only approved loco teams will be able to get CDs
<ibeardslee> I assume you mean the *free* CDs?
<ajmitch> yes, it looks like you can still buy CDs from the canonical store
<ajmitch> http://blog.canonical.com/?p=551
<Atamira> since i learned how to download it and burn my own iso
<Atamira> im not fussed that shipit is going
<Atamira> besides, im sure i can get one from someone at one of the lugs
<mwhudson> i can pick up a dozen or so at UDS i guess :)
<mwhudson> i am very happy shipit is dying from a technical point of view
<ajmitch> yes, I've seen comments from certain LP developers about it
<ibeardslee> mwhudson: why is that?
<mwhudson> ibeardslee: because it accesses the launchpad database directly, basically
<mwhudson> but is a separate codebase
<mwhudson> so it makes some things harder to change
<ajmitch> wasn't there some code that was shared between the two, causing some issues?
<mwhudson> oh right yes, it also imports launchpad code
<mwhudson> so functions get moved around and then shipit breaks
<ajmitch> \o/
<lifeless> this was a self inflicted problem
<lifeless> we split the codebases to keep the current version of shipit code private, even though it hasn't been altered substantially since lp was opened
<ojwb> morning
 * ojwb thought shipit had already been retired
<ojwb> broadband just a marketing promise 6 years ago?
#ubuntu-nz 2011-04-06
<chilts> morning
<ojwb> hi chilts
<snail> ojwb: broadband still is a marketing promise...
<ajmitch> snail: we're more crippled by tiny data caps than by speed
<ibeardslee> ++
<ajmitch> having fibre to the home won't really change that
<ibeardslee> although it has been a while since I hit my cap
<ibeardslee> at least a month ;)
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> I often hit the 20GB cap
<ojwb> snail: in NZ perhaps, this was talking about " the most connected parts of the most developed nations"
<snail> it might change it the govt forces sane interconnect rules and exempts local traffic. I have a couple of curriculum-relevant terabytes of data I'd like to put in schools...
<ojwb> and I can certainly pull data from an in country mirror at a good rate
<ibeardslee> I find .au mirrors are regulary quicker than the .nz
<ojwb> ibeardslee: bandwidth terrorist!
<snail> ibeardslee: because there isn't sane .nz peering?
<ajmitch> depends on your ISP & who they're peering with
<ibeardslee> but then I just want to throw a big baseball bat at T/C and their peering
<ojwb> ah, they basically don't peer do they?
<ajmitch> .au doesn't exactly have sane peering either, from what I know
<ibeardslee> http://www.figjam.geek.nz/node/40
<ajmitch> it's interesting that you get slower speeds from mirror.ihug.co.nz
<ojwb> ping's not necessarily the best tool for such tests
<ajmitch> is connecting to australia quicker than to ihug?
<ibeardslee> in that case there, no
<ojwb> oh, then traceroute
<ajmitch> no it's not, I'm more interested in actual download speeds
<ajmitch> it's expected that citylink speeds would be bad since it's not going to the wellington server
<ojwb> but the same applies really - routers may not treat ICMP stuff the same way as "useful" traffic
<ibeardslee> I had used the speed test to compare(ish) as well
<ibeardslee> need to find where I saved those results to
<ajmitch> wget a large package from each mirror
<ibeardslee> hmm true that might be a better solution
<mwhudson> always best to measure what you actually care about and not some proxy for it :)
<ibeardslee> will redo the ping and mtr tests as well and update that this weekend .. maybe
<ojwb> for me, it's 55, 59 and 106 ms avg from traceroute
<ojwb> so wellington's quickest, which is how life should be
<ajmitch> heh, au.archive.ubuntu.com is a bit slower for me, it goes via an ipv6 tunnel to the US & then to australia
<ibeardslee> ojwb: who is your isp?
<ojwb> xnet
 * ajmitch gets ~16ms with mtr to nz.archive.ubuntu.com
<ibeardslee> grrr
<ojwb> I get 3 wxnz.net hops (which is xnet really) then ape.net.nz, then ubuntu.citilink
<ajmitch> it's just the big players like telstraclear & telecom that have bad peering policies
<ojwb> and all but a few ms is the first hop, so it doesn't appear it goes to auckland and back
<ojwb> they are auckland based though I think
<ajmitch> the slowest hop for me is in fx networks from dunedin to wellington, it adds maybe 13ms :)
<ojwb> geolocation usually says auckland for me
<ojwb> ibeardslee: cheer up!
 * ojwb just saw your playlist...
<ibeardslee> heh
<ibeardslee> the other day you would have seen a who bunch of Tom Waits
<ibeardslee> often browse the shared music here at work .. find stuff worth listening to
 * ajmitch might take a big leap & upgrade to maverick this weekend
<ajmitch> maybe natty in a few weeks :)
<ibeardslee> I have a karmic -> lucid server upgrade to do this weekend
<ajmitch> you've got until the 30th before karmic goes EOL
 * ajmitch still has some lenny->squeeze upgrades to do on servers
<ibeardslee> yeah .. last time I tried I had to get RimuHosting to restore my backup image
<ajmitch> ouch
<ajmitch> what went wrong?
<ibeardslee> not sure .. just didn't come back up properly
<ibeardslee> I now have regularly nightly dumps of my databases and websites
<ibeardslee> don't have the automated rsync to my home server yet
<ajmitch> it's useful
<ibeardslee> yeah .. just need to get my head around passphraseless keys and host allow/deny stuff
 * ajmitch might eventually get around to looking at ipv6 for servers
<ibeardslee> fairly dependant on hosting providers for that
<ajmitch> yeah, we have servers with webdrive, I know that they have ipv6 prefixes announced, so there's a good chance it'll be available
<ajmitch> but I still have to ask them :)
<ojwb> passphraseless keys aren't terribly complicated...
<ojwb> slightly less so than keys with passphrases!
<ibeardslee> http://rimuhosting.com/knowledgebase/linux/misc/ipv6
<ajmitch> with passphraseless keys, you generally want to restrict what can be used via authorised_keys
<ibeardslee> yeah
<ibeardslee> and restrict where they can come from
<ajmitch> http://www.potaroo.net/tools/ipv4/ looks like it's a race to the bottom with APNIC
 * ajmitch guesses that it'll be several years yet before a majority of traffic would go via ipv6 in NZ
<ibeardslee> we are small enough that we should be able to just get it happening
<ibeardslee> but that requires ISPs to talk to and work with each other
<ibeardslee> probably would have been able to happen 5-10 years ago
<ajmitch> small enough but very dependent on overseas content - though the problem will more likely be in home equipment like crappy DSL modems :)
<ibeardslee> I wonder if the UFB project will require IPv6
<ojwb> making it a requirement would be a smart move
<ojwb> or a non-dumb move
<ibeardslee> and require peering
<ajmitch> it'd be nice, when I asked snap about ipv6 on dsl, they said that "There are several boundaries that need to be crossed throughout the chorus network."
<ojwb> at least they didn't say "ipv what now?"
<ajmitch> heh, they did say there was growing demand for it & that they were looking forward to it happening
 * ibeardslee is not sure if he can be bothered asking TelstraClear
 * ajmitch isn't overly hopeful of things changing soon
<kiwiLinux> Hey there i'm in a bit of a dilemma, I'd like a copy of Ubuntu desktop, but I don't have net access at home and was wondering if anyone here would be kind enough to burn a copy to dvd and mail it to me, I will pay for the cost of the DVD+ p&p
<snail> kiwiLinux:  where abouts are you physically?
<kiwiLinux> Greymouth
<kiwiLinux> I was thinking about shippit, but it takes a while and I'm not if i'll be still at the same address when the DVD arrives
<kiwiLinux> *sure
<kiwiLinux> Argh, look's like shippit has closed anyway :(
<ojwb> yes, we were discussing that earlier...
<snail> kiwiLinux: I'd offer to burn you one, but my record for burning media isn't too hot
<ojwb> which version are you after?
<ojwb> actually, I think I only have a CD image to hand
<kiwiLinux> Just Ubuntu-Desktop 10.10
<mwhudson> i'd be happy to burn it i guess but i don't seem to have any blank media
<mwhudson> kiwiLinux: 64 or 32 bit?
<kiwiLinux> Look's like this library network isn't so slow today, at this rate I'll have a copy in about 2 hours, so don't worry about it, thanks anyway
<kiwiLinux> 32 bit though
<mwhudson> ok, cool :)
<ojwb> not bad for a library!
<kiwiLinux> Ya lol
<kiwiLinux> 85 kB/s
<snail> kiwiLinux: I'm in a library too, you're in greymouth public library?
<kiwiLinux> Yup
<snail> I work in the library at VUW doing stuff like http://www.nzetc.org/tm/scholarly/tei-Cyc05Cycl-t1-body1-d3-d26-d1.html
<kiwiLinux> Nice, what a coincidence too lol
<ajmitch> morning
<chilts_> morning
<ibeardslee> morning
<mwhudson> morning
<Atamira> mornin
<snail> here's a question, what happens to a standard when the standard's body is insolvent? http://www.lisa.org/
#ubuntu-nz 2011-04-07
<ibeardslee> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<ajmitch> & such a fine morning it is, it's not even pouring down with rain yet :)
<ojwb> morning
<ojwb> ajmitch: I can see blue sky!
<ojwb> just...
<ajmitch> I'm jealous now
<ibeardslee> was some blue sky on the way in .. seems to have disappeared now
<mwhudson> morning
<ojwb> probably can't see it from wellington
<ojwb> well, from the city bit
<Atamira> mornin
<Atamira> oohh..its all blue sky here
<Atamira> not a cloud in site
<thumper> morning
<chilts> morning
 * chilts cites site in sight
<chilts> :)
<Atamira> :)
<ojwb> chilts: thanks for that slight insight
<mwhudson> it's clearing!!
<chilts> not clearing here (yet), maybe later they tell me :)
#ubuntu-nz 2011-04-08
<ibeardslee> sigh .. starting to lose track of what accounts are mine and which ones are for work
#ubuntu-nz 2011-04-09
<hads> Picked up a Lenovo Ideapad today for my sister. It's neat and now I want to keep it.
<lifeless> hads: oops :)
<thumper> hads: what model?
<hads> thumper: an S12, bought it second hand but it looks brand new.
<hads> Currently trying to buy another one off Trademe :)
#ubuntu-nz 2011-04-10
<Bacta> Hai trolls
<ikonia> good bye
<ibeardslee> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<snail> morning all
<Aginor> morning
<snail> nice, the US government shut down effects library of congress webservices...
<mwhudson> morning
<lifeless> snail: whatnow?
<snail> lifeless: hopefully a return to consortia based library approaches so the LoC stops being a single source of truth?
<lifeless> snail: link?
<snail> http://id.loc.gov/vocabulary/graphicMaterials/tgm004652
<Atamira> mornin
<lifeless> snail: oh right, its because they have a hung parliment
 * lifeless gets it now
<snail> and these are the people who want an internet kill switch...
 * ajmitch thought they'd resolved their little spats over the budget
<lifeless> ajmitch: its never been about budget
<lifeless> thats just the fulcrum
<ajmitch> right, it's always been about scoring political points, but the budget was the tool for it
<snail> ajmitch: it's the weekend there, I imagine that systems will come online first thing Monday morning office hours
<ajmitch> it's interesting to see how the different systems of government work
#ubuntu-nz 2012-04-02
<ibeardslee> morning
<snail> ibeardslee: as promised: http://www.etv.org.nz/
<ajmitch> morning
<chilts> morning
<G> morning kiwis
<Atamira> good morning all
<kcj> Morning.
<ojwb> morning
<thumper> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2012-04-03
<ibeardslee> morning
<ajmitch_> morning
 * ajmitch_ should know by now not to read ubuntu-devel-discuss in the morning
<ibeardslee> ajmitch: 'fun' ?
<ajmitch> not nearly as much fun as debian-devel :)
<ajmitch> thankfully it was mostly relevant stuff on the ubuntu list abou tfixing things before precise release
<G> morning
<mwhudson> morning
<hads> morning
<kcj> morning
<chilts> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2012-04-04
<chilts> morning
<ibeardslee> mirning
<ibeardslee> morning
<karora> moaning
<ibeardslee> hey karora .. long time
<karora> Yeah.  RL is being a PITA this year.
<snail> mÅrena
<ajmitch> morning
<Atamira> morning
<kcj> Morning
<thumper> morning
<ojwb> morning
<mwhudson> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2012-04-05
<ojwb> afternoon
<mwhudson> so i have some strange compiz zooming effect on one of my displays
<ajmitch> mwhudson: how strange?
<mwhudson> ajmitch: well
<mwhudson> it's zoomed in by about 10%
<ajmitch> hit super-r recently?
<ajmitch> if so, go to an empty workspace & hit it again
<mwhudson> and moving the mouse in that display pans around the zoomed in view
<mwhudson> ajmitch: ah, that did it
<mwhudson> what does that do?
<ajmitch> it's a compiz plugin that zooms everything within a window
 * ajmitch is just pulling up the bug #
<mwhudson> and i managed to hit it on the root window or something?
<ajmitch> more likely on a maximised window
<mwhudson> ah yes
<mwhudson> yeah, that's exactly what it was
<ajmitch> doing it on the root window resets the zoom to normal
<mwhudson> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/220939
<ajmitch> also https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz-plugins-main/+bug/953278
<mwhudson> except that one is fix released
<ajmitch> fix released as of yesterday
<mwhudson> ah nice
<mwhudson> ajmitch: thanks :)
 * ajmitch saw it mentioned on ubuntu-devel-discuss a day or two ago
<ojwb> morning
<kcj> Morning.
#ubuntu-nz 2012-04-06
<ibeardslee> \j #catalyst-academy
<ibeardslee> sigh
<ibeardslee> morning
<kcj> Morning.
<ojwb> morning
<ibeardslee> a tad disappointed at the weather. Had planned a day for upgrading personal servers to Precise
<ibeardslee> but with the yellow ball of fire in the sky .. it would seem such a waste of it
 * ibeardslee wanders away to enjoy it ;)
<kcj> Heh, complaining about good weather.
<ajmitch> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2012-04-08
<Atamira> morning
<ibeardslee> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<kcj> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2013-04-01
<ibeardslee> morning
<olly> morning
<thumper> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<hads> morning
<chilts> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2013-04-02
<mwhudson> has anyone managed to make isky work on ubuntu?
<G> mwhudson: I had it working during the RWC, just used Chrome tbh
<mwhudson> chrome or chromium?
<mwhudson> i guess chrome might work better, perhaps
<mwhudson> i get encouraging messages like "14:47:30.151 	INFO 	playerwidget 	FlashAccessProcess :: system could not be updated to access drm [IOErrorEvent type="ioError" bubbles=false cancelable=false eventPhase=2 text="Error #2203"] " in the console :/
<ojwb> so flash hasn't died yet then?
<mwhudson> bah, chrome doesn't work in an apparently unrelated way
<mwhudson> ojwb: no :(
<ojwb> about the only thing I notice these days from not having flash is the odd youtube video refuses to play
<ojwb> seemingly because it can't squirt ads via HTML video, which seems a bonus really
<ojwb> i'm likely atypical in my web usage, but i've had a definite sense that flash is in decline
<hads> I think you can thank mobile browsers for that.
<G> mwhudson: straight Chrome
<ibeardslee> morning
<Atamira> morning
<chilts> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<hads> morning
<Atamira> wellingtonians. other than Te Papa, anything else to see while visiting the windy city?
<ojwb> probably
<ojwb> depends what you like though
<ojwb> oh, also morning
<ojwb> museum-wise, the museum of city and sea is also worth a look
<Atamira> is that close to te papa?
<Atamira> i like museums. knick knack shops. just having a look around generally
<ojwb> it's certainly walkable
<ojwb> it's near the shore, to the north
<ibeardslee> hmm not a good sign when apport-gtk crashes when something else crashes
<snail> Atamira: national portrait gallery is close to te papa
<snail> Atamira: catch the cablecar up to VUW (www.adamartgallery.org.nz)  or the botanic gardens?
<snail> Atamira: do a tour of parliment?
<ojwb> there's also a (pretty tiny) cable car museum at the top of the cablecar
<snail> and the carter observatory, which has a planetarum
 * ojwb still hasn't got round to going there
<snail> ojwb: they've just completely refurbished it
<Atamira> i unfortunately dont much like heights...other than planes
<Atamira> to the cablecar is out
<Atamira> tour of the beehive..ooh..didnt think of that
<Atamira> thank you snial and ojwb
<Atamira> oops..snail
<Atamira> im off to bed.
<ojwb> Atamira: it's not an "up on a wire" cable car
<ojwb> it runs along rail, pulled by cables
<ojwb> heights really wouldn't be a problem
<ibeardslee> more like a very steep train on tracks (just happens to use a cable to haul it up and lower it down)
<thumper> morning
<mwhudson> i'm not sure it's super great if you have vertigo-type problems :)
<mwhudson> although the one in hong kong is definitely worse
<mwhudson> morning, btw
<thumper> mwhudson: you back now?
<mwhudson> thumper: aye
<thumper> mwhudson: it seemed like you were away for quite a while
<mwhudson> thumper: yeah -- a month, give or take
<thumper> mwhudson: all holiday?
<mwhudson> no, i worked a bit from the uk
<ojwb> going over there, taking their jobs...
<chilts> that's the good thing with remote jobs, you can work from anywhere
<chilts> there's a few of us in this channel doing that aye
 * ojwb still hasn't worked for anybody in NZ
<mwhudson> which reminds me, i need to sort my paperwork to get lots of GST back from the government...
<G> remote working brings up interesting management chains I've found too, until recently my management chain looked like a route for a round-the-world trip
<ojwb> i'm just self-employed, so the management chain is usually just me to the client
<ojwb> or at least i tend not to see much more of it
<kcj> Morning.
<thumper> mwhudson: you get GST back?
<thumper> mwhudson: from what?
<mwhudson> thumper: office rental mostly
<mwhudson> other assorted bits
<thumper> mwhudson: ah...
<mwhudson> also acc :)
<chilts> they charge GST on ACC ... I forgot about that
<chilts> pretty weird since it's only sold to businesses right, not to consumers?
<chilts> dunno
<ibeardslee> it's a business selling a 'product'
<chilts> ACC is a business?
<chilts> hmmmm, ok
<ojwb> coo, I'd not noticed that one
<mwhudson> isn't the nz principle that gst gets charged on _everything_ ?
<mwhudson> well, every good or service
<ojwb> i think so - i guess i just think of acc as a tax (since it's very roughly equivalent to national insurance in the UK)
<ojwb> though it seems to be better ring-fenced here
<chilts> ACC is not on bank fees
<chilts> wait
<ojwb> GST
<chilts> I'm getting confused, ignore me
<chilts> yeah, GST
<ojwb> i assume you mean?
<chilts> sorry
<chilts> :)
<chilts> GST also isn't on various other things either, like houses
<chilts> (unless you're a property developer)
<ojwb> or from companies below the threshold and not registered for GST
<ojwb> but it's more ubiquitous that UK VAT which has a somewhat odd list of exceptions (e.g. VAT on chocolate biscuits because they are a luxury, but no VAT on cakes because they aren't, so mcvities went to court to argue that jaffacakes are cakes not biscuits)
<mwhudson> i think there is something about hot and cold food, or takeaway and eat-in or something along those lines
<ojwb> yeah
<ojwb> and tampons are apparently a luxury
<ojwb> no VAT on kids clothes, but it's done by size, so many kids actually need sizes which VAT is charged on
<mwhudson> and vv
<ojwb> indeed
<G> wouldn't the whole luxury/non-luxury thing defeat the purpose of VAT/GST
<ojwb> it certainly makes things more complex
<chilts> yeah, definitely more complex
<chilts> I think there is VAT on stuff that is eaten in, but not taken out (to clarify what mwhudson said before)
<G> certainly sounds more complex than Australia too
<ojwb> chilts: there are hot vs cold distinctions too - e.g the whole "pasty tax" saga http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/may/29/pasty-tax-brief-history
<mwhudson> there was some graph somewhere that showed that we pay more gst than people in the uk pay VAT despite VAT being 20%, due to all the exemptions
<mwhudson> ojwb: that's pretty hilarious
<ojwb> i suspect it depends on the sort of food you buy, and whether you have (small enough) kids
<ojwb> i love the idea of food that is designed to cool down
<ojwb> vs food where that's a design flaw, i guess
<chilts> heh, weird
<ibeardslee> chilts: from what I understand is that there is GST in a house sale, just like in theory there is in the stuff you sell on tradme, but people involved in the transaction aren't necessarily GST registered
#ubuntu-nz 2013-04-03
<lifeless> ibeardslee: chilts: http://www.ird.govt.nz/property/property-family-home/selling-your-home-taxable/
<lifeless> tl;dr unless you are deliberately making money by buying and selling your family homes, there is no tax.
<lifeless> but property investment has tax
<ibeardslee> GST vs Income Tax
<ibeardslee> But it has been long enough since I've had to deal with GST so I doubt that I'm worth listening to about that
<hads> GST is on land usually.
<hads> That is if there is GST applicable, i.e. the vendor is a business.
<G> actually, I tell you one instance where GST is confusing moving personal effects internationally, now that was confusing at first
<hads> Yeah, Customs can be a pain and try to charge GST and duty and all sorts.
<G> actually, thats a good point, I was kind of talking about the actual moving fees themselves
<G> you end up by paying GST in both countries etc
<mwhudson> ah yes, customs is a pain
<hads> You don't have to pay GST on personal effects coming in to NZ but they are quite annoying about it. They seem to charge first and it's up to you to prove otherwise.
<mwhudson> "so... the nz government wants an interest free loan from me?"
<G> but I was actually lucky, Customs didn't charge me as much duty as I expected when I returned to NZ
<G> I saved about a grand as a result
<mwhudson> also annoying when people guess silly amounts on the value of the goods they are shipping you
<G> hads: the rates have changed, but there were things that were basically GST+Duty, then they changed the rates and got rid of some of the double taxing, then when they started enforcing the $400 personal import limit for parcels, they iirc dropped them again
<G> iirc I got my stuff just inbetween the two changes
<hads> If it's personal effects they aren't meant to be charged GST or duty at all.
<G> if they are less than 18 months old they can be assessed for GST/Duty
<hads> http://www.customs.govt.nz/inprivate/sendingitemstonz/giftsandbelongings/Pages/default.aspx
<G> hads: look at Unaccompanied Baggage
<hads> It says personal effects are fine.
<hads> I guess it depends on your definition of personal effects.
<G> yeah, by personal effects, I'm applying the broad definition of things you own :)
<ajmitch> morning
<ojwb> morning
<chilts> morning
<ibeardslee> morning
<G> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2013-04-04
<kcj> Morning.
<ibeardslee> morning
<Atamira>  morning
<ajmitch> morning
<ojwb> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2013-04-07
<ibeardslee> morning
<ojwb> morning
<hads> morning
<kcj> Morning.
<thumper> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2014-03-31
<ibeardslee> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<hads> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2014-04-01
<olly> chilts: did you get a mail from huttcity about the gis viewer?  they have an html5 one close to working now: http://gisviewerdev.huttcity.govt.nz/Html5Viewer/?viewer=huttcity
<Atamira> morning all
<ibeardslee> morning
<olly> morning
<hads> morning
<mwhudson> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2014-04-02
<ibeardslee> morning
<olly> morning
<ajmitch> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2014-04-03
<ibeardslee> mutter UbuntuOne being turned off
<olly> "Canonical plans to make the code for Ubuntu One available as open source so others can build their own open-source services." reads as "now it's no use to us any more, you can have it"
<ibeardslee> probably not in time for me to migrate to someone building a replacement with that code
<olly> nice typo in the comments - "This is only one cloud service I use and I would like to used on my NSA."
<ibeardslee> heh
<olly> or perhaps it's a poor joke
<olly> (I assumed they meant "NAS")
<ibeardslee> I'd assume that'd be right
<ibeardslee> .. they mean NAS
<olly> hmm, so if canonical are giving up on the network storage space because it's so crowded, are they also going to drop out of the Linux distro and mobile OS spaces?
<mwhudson> no :)
<G> olly, prob not worth the security headaches, I remember when file sharing links were predictable a guy I used to work with scripted walking the site detecting what people were sharing
<hads> I did mean to give Ubuntu One a look one day. Guess I left it too late.
<olly> hads: i love it when todo list entries go away just by being ignored for long enough
<hads> Probably as many items get ticked off my list that way than any other way.
<chilts> olly: no, haven't received anything from them
<ibeardslee> morning
<ibeardslee> I think it is a bit unfortunate that they are dropping the UbuntuOne, because it would have been the ideal thing to link in with their phones
<ibeardslee> ubuntu phone comes with UbuntuOne storage and music etc
<ajmitch> morning
<olly> morning
<ibeardslee> Friday .. a good day to do a version upgrade to the work saucy machine
<ajmitch> upgrading to trusty?
<ibeardslee> yeap
 * olly wonders what else you'd upgrade a saucy machine to
<ibeardslee> down the track I will do a full reinstall from scratch
<ibeardslee> just want to run through the process once before the hordes at work will start considering it
<ajmitch> olly: debian? :)
<olly> quite painful as an upgrade I suspect
<ibeardslee> well .. let's see if I am back online shortly
<mwhudson> oh yes i should probably do that too
<olly> we did a mass ubuntu to debian switch and settled on unpacking a debian install into /debian and then switching files around early in the next boot via a script in initramfs
<olly> which worked very nicely, though it helped that these machines all had a standard setup
<ibeardslee> yeah ouch
<ibeardslee> not a clean upgrade
<olly> andrew mcmillan managed to do an upgrade from ubuntu to debian on his son's machine, but it was pretty hard work
<ibeardslee> unless i was extra special, I wouldn't recommend a saucy to trusty upgrade at the moment
<ajmitch> ibeardslee: considering that it's due for release Real Soon Now, it should have been upgradeable
<ajmitch> what broke?
<ibeardslee> a bunch of packages failed (I have a list), and on the reboot it wouldn't let me login and there were over 1000 packages still to be upgraded
<ibeardslee> wouldn't let me login through the gui
<ajmitch> ouch
<ibeardslee> had to do an apt-get install -f to get around some problems
<ibeardslee> doing a apt-get dist-upgrade now to get the rest of the package upgrades
<ajmitch> did you use the upgrade tool initially?
<ibeardslee> yeap
<ibeardslee> do-release-upgrade -d
<ibeardslee> 1482 packages not originally upgraded
<ibeardslee> and it seems to be working now
<ibeardslee> gah .. and don't upgrade if you use UbuntuOne
#ubuntu-nz 2014-04-06
<ibeardslee> morning
<Atamira> morena
<olly> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<hads> morning
<mwhudson> morning
<mwhudson> ... i think anyway, it's hard to be sure
#ubuntu-nz 2015-03-30
<ibeardslee> morning
<olly> morning
<mwhudson> an interesting theory
<mwhudson> ibeardslee: how is the whole "buying a laptop without windows" situation in nz currently?
<mwhudson> as terrible as usual?
<ibeardslee> yes
<mwhudson> bah
<ibeardslee> we go to Silicon and they can get Lenovo laptops for us
<mwhudson> which isn't something i can do?
<ibeardslee> no you can, won't be able to get in on our deal (we have to commit to 10 at a time, and would be annoyed if the others started getting 'our 10' and we lose track and have to wait for another set).
#ubuntu-nz 2015-03-31
<mwhudson> i see
<ibeardslee> I mean to say that yes you can go to them directly.
<mwhudson> i also want a laptop fairly pronto as i'm travelling in 10 days and easter eats half of the working days :/
<ibeardslee> ahh ouch .. that wouldn't be pronto going to Silicon as it's a special order
<mwhudson> i wonder how well ubuntu works on macbook airs these days
<olly> can you buy those without OS X?
<mwhudson> no
<olly> mac screens seem nice, didn't get on with the keyboard though
<ibeardslee> I'd like to be able to get our (Catalyst's) buying power to a point of people being able to buy our 'standard' laptop variant.
<olly> mainly layout, which you can probably fudge
<olly> i do like the magnet-attached power connector they use
<olly> though once the battery got sad, it might be more of a liability
<olly> and i suspect the battery is glued in, being apple
<mwhudson> well it's also squeezed in around all the other components i guess
<mwhudson> can attest to magnet attached power connector being a pain when the battery is sad, yes
<hads> Are the Lenovo units you buy any cheaper than buying with Windows direct from Lenovo?
<hads> I've noticed that the distributors are often no cheaper than direct from the Lenovo website.
<olly> presumably any cost difference isn't the big motivator though
<hads> Understood, just curious.
<hads> Oh jealous, I see the T450S has moved back to proper buttons on the trackpad.
<olly> i've noticed at least some computers come with a nobbled version of windows, and you pay extra to get a less nobbled one
<olly> so i guess MS may get a lower tax than they used to
<hads> Looks like that's about the only change between the 440s and 450s, now I want a new laptop again.
<hads> Wow, it's twice the price.
<hads> I'll just get back to work then.
<olly> expensive buttons
<ibeardslee> hads: a bit cheaper, but we have a 3 year warranty I think the website's standard is 1 year
<hads> Glad they are a little cheaper.
<olly> my office is so hot today - doesn't seem like it's almost april
<hads> Pretty chilly here today.
<olly> it's nicely cool outside, I think it's just still so the air isn't circulating much
<ibeardslee> morning
<atamira> morning
<olly> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2015-04-01
<olly> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2016-04-05
<ibeardslee> morning
<olly_> morning
<hads> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2016-04-06
<ibeardslee> morning
<olly> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2016-04-07
<olly> morning
<mwhudson> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2016-04-08
<ibeardslee> .. afternoon
#ubuntu-nz 2016-04-10
<ibeardslee> morning
<olly> morning
<mwhudson> morning
<chilts> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2017-04-03
<ibeardslee> morning
<ibeardslee> ahh afternoon
#ubuntu-nz 2017-04-05
<ibeardslee> https://insights.ubuntu.com/2017/04/05/growing-ubuntu-for-cloud-and-iot-rather-than-phone-and-convergence/
<ibeardslee> bye bye unity
<ibeardslee> :(
<olly> morning
<olly> not a huge surprise though, maintaining your own desktop stack is quite a lot of work
<ibeardslee> yeap, hopefully they'll throw those people into gnome
#ubuntu-nz 2017-04-06
<atamira> i wasnt and still not keen on unity. maybe cause i had problems customizing it so i dont see it as a loss. thats just me tho
<atamira> however. family members whos machine has been installed with unity, love it. cant live without it if i change the desktop on them.
<olly> i was a bit put off by the early versions - i think they probably pushed it out too soon
<olly> i used someone's machine with it more recently and it seemed quite nice, but overall I'd rather run the same desktop on all my machines, not a special one on ubuntu
<ibeardslee> I like it for the lack of customisation .. it's a tool to give me my apps, I dont' really want options to spend hours tweaking window effects, colours, fonts in the UI.
<olly> morning
<mwhudson> mornings
#ubuntu-nz 2020-04-02
<atamira> morning all
