#ubuntu-doc 2005-10-17
<Madpilot> http://www.alistapart.com:80/articles/ambientfindability
<jsgotangco> http://www.mb.com.ph/TECH2005101246550.html
<Burgundavia> warpforge Colonel: One does not simply "migrate" to Gentoo. It's a life decision.
<thechitowncubs> Hey friends
<ajmitch_> hello
<jsgotangco> hi
<ajmitch_> jsgotangco: so what's the status of release notes now?
<jsgotangco> ekkk i have to edit it further in a few minutes
<ajmitch_> ah right
<jsgotangco> i haven't checked the changes in the wiki
<jsgotangco> but after that, i'll fix the xml and bug jbailey to upload it
<ajmitch_> mostly grammar/spelling
<ajmitch_> and fabbione removed that LVM issue
<jsgotangco> yes
<ajmitch_> apparantly it was disabled in the last partman upload
<jsgotangco> no known issues at all?
<ajmitch_>  partman-auto-lvm (2ubuntu8) breezy; urgency=low
<ajmitch_>  .
<ajmitch_>    The "Release Notes" aren't enough release.
<ajmitch_> oh there are probably a few known issues
<ajmitch_> I just don't know them :)
<jsgotangco> well like i tell them, they'll feel the wrath of bugzilla in a few days if they don't add known issues
<ajmitch_> I'll check when I do a test install on my laptop
<jsgotangco> feel free to edit the wiki page but i'd like to freeze it in a couple of hours
<ajmitch_> I won't be able to test for at least a couple of hours
<jsgotangco> well ok i'll have someone review it first..but it seems ok already as is
<ajmitch_> good thing release is soon
<ajmitch_> I'm nearly through my 10GB data quota for the month :)
<ajmitch_> download ETA is about 90minutes for daily install image
<ajmitch_> about the time I'll get home from work
<jbailey> jsgotangco: Talking about the release notes?
<jsgotangco> yes
<jbailey> jsgotangco: How is it?  I should upload that in the next hour or so, I guess.
<jsgotangco> ok kamion made 1 known issue
<jsgotangco> jbailey, enough time for me to fix it
<jbailey> In all likelyhood, the archive will be frozen by the time I get up tomorrow so that kamion can start the CD builds.
<jbailey> Which issue>
<jsgotangco> 14485
<jbailey> Oh, you mean with the release notes.
<jbailey> I thought you meant with the ubuntu-docs upload I did.
<jsgotangco> no
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> i haven't got time to grab a daily build i don't even see the changes anymore
* jsgotangco haven't even updated this laptop for 3 days
<jsgotangco> it would be nice if mdz can make a final pass on the notes before we upload
<jbailey> It's 10pm there, it's pretty unlikely.
<jbailey> err
<jbailey> 8pm
<ajmitch_> once he wakes up he probably won't sleep till release :)
<jsgotangco> goodie we'll all be doing an all-nighter just in case
<ajmitch_> yay
<ajmitch_> jbailey: I was meaning to ask you about certification stuff :)
<jbailey> ajmitch_: I know nothing.
<ajmitch_> ok
<jsgotangco> jbailey, give me an hour to finish this
<jbailey> jsgotangco: 'k.
<jsgotangco> hrmmm we can't add the notes anymore
<ajmitch_> no?
<jbailey> Eh?
<jsgotangco> mdz says its already frozen
<ajmitch_> mdz in #u-devel
* ajmitch_ forgot he read that email
<robitaille> Burgundavia, I thought you had started doing some of the screenshots for the quicktour.  I don't see any in the repo
<robitaille> are they all to be done?
<jsgotangco> they won't get in the disc for sure
<robitaille> they still should be done...
<Burgundavia> robitaille, I haven't done any
<robitaille> ok.  I guess I misunderstood a past email.   I'll try to generate some later tonight
<Burgundavia> robitaille, likely, I am pretty tired right now
<robitaille> long work days?
<jsgotangco> robitaille, http://www.mb.com.ph/TECH2005101246550.html
<Burgundavia> rob_, yes
<Burgundavia> robitaille, yes
<jbailey> jsgotangco: Well, the nice part is at least they can stay in the wiki for now.
<jbailey> I wonder if there's some sane way that we can automatically export release notes from the wiki to the package.
<jsgotangco> jbailey, actually the wiki is good enough instead of shipping an inaacurate release notes
<jbailey> And ask them to do that as one of the last steps in freezing the archive.
<jbailey> True.
<robitaille> jsgotangco,  that's a great link.  I think that should go on the fridge
<jbailey> "If you are reading this, it means that you don't have the problem booting on an XFS partition"
<jsgotangco> hehe
<jbailey> Then with that in mind, I think I will go to sleep soon and wake up early for CD testing.
<jsgotangco> sleep tight
<jbailey> Thanks.  Have a lovely day.
<Madpilot> anyone know if the Ubuntu servers are having some sort of trouble?
<jsgotangco> Madpilot, its down for maintenance
<Madpilot> thanks.
<Burgundavia> salut mdke 
<jsgotangco> hi
<mdke> morning
<mdke> my stupid internet keeps going down
<mdke> dunno if its the router or the connection
<mdke> jsgotangco, what is the status with releasenotes?
<jsgotangco> we've started test pass on gold and mdz said we'll just leave it in the wiki instead of uploading it
<jsgotangco> because it will mean that the cds will be rebuilt again
<jsgotangco> mdke, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyReleaseNotes is the authoritative page
<mdke> ok
<mdke> so it will be released there, or on the Ubuntu website?
<jsgotangco> we'll push both for sure
<jsgotangco> we just added 2 more known issues in the wiki so there
<rob_> hi
<mdke> push both?
<jsgotangco> 's no reason to publish an old doc in the distro
<mdke> hey rob
<rob_> hi mdke 
<mdke> jsgotangco, agreed, but will the releasenotes be on the wiki or the website?
<jsgotangco> i said both the wiki is still not final until all the cds pass
<mdke> right
<mdke> so for translation purposes, the wiki page will be final and people will translate from there?
<jsgotangco> its quite safe to translate it now i'd say
<mdke> ok
<jsgotangco> the only thing that would be added are known issues really
<mdke> cool
<robitaille> http://www3.telus.net/robitaille/quicktour/quicktour.html
<robitaille> still not done yet...but I'm about to go to bed :)
<jsgotangco> nice
<jsgotangco> its ok we still have a day left =)
<robitaille> and I'm looking for ideas for a screenshot of ltsp...
<Madpilot> robitaille: the screenshots look great
<Burgundavia> robitaille, thanks
<Madpilot> for LTSP, could you grab a PD image of a bunch of monitors on a desk or something?
<Madpilot> shot from the back, maybe, so nobody can tell what OS they're running?
<Burgundavia> maybe something from here
<Burgundavia> http://openclipart.org/cgi-bin/navigate/computer
<robitaille> anyone remember that picture of the schoolbus in Brazil wih all the Ubuntu terminals?
<robitaille> I think it was on planet.u.c at one point
<jsgotangco> i know a local netcafe over here that runs all their stations in hoary (around 15 heads)
<Madpilot> robitaille: if you can track one of those Brazillian pics down that would be very cool
<Madpilot> even if that isn't actually LTSP in operation... ;)
<Burgundavia> http://www.flickr.com/photos/whiprush/33275644/
<Madpilot> excellent...
<Burgundavia> however, you need to contact whiprush for permission (shouldn't be an issue)
<Burgundavia> as the image is currently Non-comm
<Burgundavia> no deriv
<Madpilot> Ubuntu counts as commerical, I guess?
<Burgundavia> commercial is anything for profit
<robitaille> can one of you talk to him?  
<Burgundavia> if I sell you an ubuntu cd for one dollar, that is commercial
<Burgundavia> robitaille, just pinged him on #ubuntu-devel
<HrdwrBob> erm
<HrdwrBob> you can sell the CDs
<Burgundavia> yes you can, but if the cd contained non-comm stuff you couldn't
<Madpilot> HrdwrBob: search on EBay, ppl resell the Shipit CDs there
<HrdwrBob> the CDs can't contain non-commercial stuff
<HrdwrBob> that's the whole point of 'free'
<HrdwrBob> 'non commericial use only' is not 'free'
<Burgundavia> Debian and Wikipedia don't consider non-comm to be "free"
<Madpilot> HrdwrBob: we know, but the guy who took the pic we want is already involved in Ubuntu, so he can give permission
<HrdwrBob> yeah
<HrdwrBob> I think the key difference you're looking for is 'commercial'
<HrdwrBob> and 'proprietry'
<HrdwrBob> nothing wrong with commercial
<Madpilot> robitaille: for the "Coming to a language near you" screenshot, maybe you should zoom in and cut it down to just part of the list of languages on the lefthand side of that box?
<robitaille> Madpilot, sounds good
<robitaille> I'm going to bed...I'm way past my bed time...and only 2 snaphots the quicktour are now missing :)
<Madpilot> robitaille: good stuff - Corey didn't think this would make released time!
<Madpilot> robitaille: you still up for Thursday, here, around 7:30 (or whenever?)
<robitaille> Madpilot,  I'm still a maybe for Thursday.    Is it at the same place I went last time, or somewhere else?
<Madpilot> same place - need directions again?
<robitaille> I will be fine;  I still have your address.  I'll let you know tomorrow if I'm coming
<Madpilot> good. hope you can make it!
<jsgotangco> can i remove QuickTour in the release notes since its not part of the CD anymore
<jsgotangco> ok removing then =)
<Kamping_Kaiser> if someone (i was thinking me specificaly right now) finds bugs in the doco, do they have to file in bugzilla? or post to the list? or both? i asume bugzilla is required, but if its not im happy, because i hate it ;)
<jsgotangco> bugzilla
<Kamping_Kaiser> ok. thanks 
<jsgotangco> file it and i'll assign it accordingly
<Kamping_Kaiser> mm. ok. ta
<rob_> bloody wiki spambots
<Madpilot> they've found the Ubuntu wiki? or are you talking about idiot humans? 
<rob_> no, they found my wiki
<Madpilot> ouch. lots of reverts to do?
<rob_> about 15
<rob_> looks like I got it just in time
<Madpilot> and then security to review, I guess?
<rob_> lucky the wiki isn't huge like the ubuntu one
<Madpilot> what topic?
<rob_> debian
<rob_> http://www.debianguide.org
<Madpilot> I'd have thought a Debian wiki would be a lot bigger than the Ubuntu one...
<rob_> mine has been around for a while, there is a bigger one thats been around longer but it was a piece of crap
<Madpilot> heh
<rob_> they have just started an official one, so a lot of my content has been moved over
<Madpilot> good luck with bot-hunting...
<rob_> yeah I got em all now
<rob_> does anyone know whats happening with help.ubuntu.com?
<poningru> anyone alive?
<poningru> chapter 1 section 7
<poningru> number 4
<rob_> yeah
<rob_> ?
<poningru> on faq
<poningru> sorry
<poningru> 4. IRC chat: irc.freenode.net channel ubuntu
<rob_> yes
<poningru> needs a # in front of ubuntu
<poningru> 4. IRC chat: irc.freenode.net channel #ubuntu
<rob_> yep
<rob_> it must have lost it somewhere in the last few nightmare weeks
<poningru> hehe
<rob_> I remember it having a # at one stage :)
<poningru> also I was wondering if we should recommend another cd burning software under windows
<poningru> something free
<rob_> no biggie though, and theres not much we can do about it
<poningru> obviously too late now 
<rob_> most people get nero free with their burners now days
<poningru> right
<poningru> meh
<rob_> I just picked a common app that everyone knew
<rob_> It also has a Linux version, so I though "hey why not"
<poningru> oh true
<poningru> also for realplayer
<poningru> I thought we were recomending /usr/local/bin
<poningru> how come we switched
<rob_> it should be /usr/local/bin rather then the non-standard /usr/bin/RealPlayer
<poningru> Chapter 3. Movies and Music Section 3
<poningru> When prompted for a location to install RealPlayer 10, type /usr/bin/RealPlayer
<poningru> Chapter 3, Movies and Music, Section 3
<Kamping_Kaiser> yeh. i have a few like that on the 'check in bugzilla' list
<poningru> should I just submit on bugzilla/
<poningru> ?
<rob_> yeah sure
<poningru> the problem being I dont have time for all of the write up
<rob_> then I'll be able to fix it when I do the next rewrite
<Kamping_Kaiser> rob_: are you in charge of the faq guide?
<rob_> Kamping_Kaiser, yes, I'm the maintainer of it
<Kamping_Kaiser> ah ok. i went through page by page for bugs ... so i have a few. i was wondering who was going to wind up with them :(
<poningru> hehe without the ^ rob^ is unrecognizable
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol.
<thechitowncubs> Some one needs to write a guide telling how to get WMV's, MOVs, and other things to play inside of Firefox
<thechitowncubs> That would be extremely helpful and popular
<rob^> that would be I
<rob^> there are a few bugs there already, so don't forget to do a search first
<rob^> mostly they will be left open until after breezy is released (tomorrow) then I will go through one by one and address them
<rob^> thechitowncubs, the wiki is the best place for that
<rob^> see restrictedformats and beepmediaplayer
<rob^> mostly for ff plugins though use the mplayer plugin
<rob^> thechitowncubs, feel free to add to the wiki :)
<thechitowncubs> rob^, If I had the info I would do it
<thechitowncubs> But I'm the one requesting the info
<Kamping_Kaiser> ok rob^. im hoping to get involved after breezy goes stable, so i might file them this weekend (after checking , naturaly....). because i want to get involved, im finding out who does what ;)
<rob^> the plan is to get help.ubuntu.com going on the webserver, and serve a copy (updated) from there as well as maybe releasing an update to the package with the fixes
<rob^> Kamping_Kaiser, have you checked out the docteam pages?
<Kamping_Kaiser> nice. i know if the packages could be updated, it would help a lot of ppl a lot
<rob^> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamProjects
<Kamping_Kaiser> rob^: yeh, im looking through all the docteam stuff 
<Kamping_Kaiser> one bit at a time :)
<rob^> :)
* Kamping_Kaiser has a growing bookmarks list ;)
<rob^> you can always start with helping out on the wiki if your not to comfortable with docbook
<rob^> matt doesn't have too much to do with the faq lately, so I'm it for that one
<Kamping_Kaiser> :| ok. and yes, i saw docbook for the first time a few days ago ;)
<poningru> hmm I should start messing around with docbook
<poningru> also are we writing dev docs?
<poningru> like things for oem installs
<poningru> how to change the icons etc.
<poningru> is that allowed?
<rob^> yes, if someone wants to propose one
<rob^> the idea was bought up a while ago I think.. but nothings happened
<poningru> hmm ic
<poningru> I mean wouldnt it be as simple as changing the usplash png
<poningru> ?
<rob^> the best way to start is to submit small patches to one of the docs in our repo to the mailing list, the userguide needs lots of love (which is why its not in Breezy)
<poningru> wait I thought the faq was the userguide?
<rob^> no, its a more indepth thing
<poningru> hmm ic
<poningru> link?
<rob^> see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamProjects
<poningru> wait I remember this
<poningru> didnt this come out of the 'why?' article?
<rob^> sorry?
<poningru> there was a lengthy article written by some guy
<rob^> yeah ;)
<poningru> the title was something like why or something
<poningru> hehe
<rob^> some guy
<poningru> basically was an intro to linux/ubuntu with history and other howtos integrated
<rob^> back in reality what we have is what has happen
<rob^> people have big ideas but few really see them through
<poningru> hehe true
<rob^> UBZ might be more intresting, they plan on maybe touching on some of it there
<rob^> but I doubt much will change
<poningru> hmm
<poningru> also are we the ones who have to handle edubuntu docs?
<rob^> yes
<poningru> crap
<poningru> thats a lot of work
<rob^> yep. it is ;)
<poningru> :)
<rob^> thats why there have been calls to simplify docbook
<rob^> something I agree with, which will help potential contributors greatly
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<poningru> true
<Kamping_Kaiser> wb
<rob^lt> hi
<jbailey> jsgotangco: Awake?
<jsgotangco> hi
<jsgotangco> i'm gonna crash in a few minutes though (really tired)
<rob^lt> hi jbailey jsgotangco 
<jbailey> np, I'll chat with you about svn layouts some other time. ;)
<jbailey> Heya Rob
<jsgotangco> i'll just have to test some few then logout
<jsgotangco> jbailey, were you able to solve the riddle of the entities?
<jbailey> jsgotangco: ...
<jsgotangco> right...
<jbailey> I thought I got all the entities in the last upload?
<ajmitch_> morning jbailey 
<jsgotangco> jbailey, i haven't checked i'm installing the last build atm...it should be fixed im sure
<jsgotangco> jbailey, i meant on the svn...
<jbailey> Oh.
<jbailey> Yes. =)
<jbailey> I think that there are two reasonable ways to do it.
<jbailey> The simplest is to model the svn after the installed filesystem.
<jsgotangco> jbailey, i'd LOVE THAT
<jbailey> The other is to actually use Makefiles, and generate the entities based on whether you're installing or building locally.
<rob^lt> the svn is a mess
<jsgotangco> if we can implement any of those we'll surely solve packaging issues and easily make rolling releases every milestone
<jsgotangco> rob^lt, that's the fun part
<jbailey> Dude, I'll be doing weekly uploads. =)
<rob^lt> heh yep
<rob^lt> is there a chance of getting an updated ubuntu-docs package for breezy after release?
<jsgotangco> i doubt that
<jsgotangco> we can ask it to be pushed as breezy-update i guess
<rob^lt> my thoughts exactly
<jbailey> But I always want to teach the docteam that "debuild; sudo debi" is enough for doing all their testing.
<jsgotangco> ok let's add that to the agenda for next week's meeting then
<jbailey> 'k
<Kamping_Kaiser> what time is the meeting?
<jbailey> I don't know if dapper will be open next Monday.  If it is, I'll do an upload anyway.
<ajmitch_> tuesday or so, we heard
<Kamping_Kaiser> gmt?
<rob^lt> 1400 isnt it?
<Kamping_Kaiser> hm. ill find out closer to teh event i expect
<jsgotangco> jbailey, upload what? an update?
<jbailey> jsgotangco: Whatever is in the archive at that moment.
<jbailey> jsgotangco: I'll port all of the -docs stuff to the mainline and start the snapshots.
<jsgotangco> ok in my m ind we're releasing dapper
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> jeezz
<jbailey> *lol*
<jbailey> I think it would be fun to run sed over it and replace all the "breezy" instances with "dapper" =)
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol
<jsgotangco> yeah
<HiddenWolf> Guys, can I offer a suggestion?
<jsgotangco> go ahead
<HiddenWolf> How about creating a "this isn't clear to me" page. And piont to it from various userdocumentation pages. So people have a place to tell us what is not clear about current docs?
<rob^lt> hmm
<rob^lt> bug reports covers that
<jsgotangco> HiddenWolf, in the wiki?
<HiddenWolf> jsgotangco, yeah
<jsgotangco> sure...that would be a nice idea
<rob^lt> grr the au archive has some missing packages
<jsgotangco> it might be a good metric once the page matures i guess
<HiddenWolf> rob^lt, bugzilla has a bit of a high threshold
<rob^lt> true
<rob^lt> but it allows us to keep track and keep a history of it
<HiddenWolf> rob^lt, true, but what you need is for users to give you feedback
<jsgotangco> peer review can be helpful really
<HiddenWolf> if it's a choice between less than ideal, or not at all, I'd rather have the former.
<HiddenWolf> A link at the bottom of a wiki page "was this helpfull and clear for you? if not, let us know" might help
<rob^lt> well, at the moment I have a few bugs I need to address in bugzilla for the faq guide, I'm holding off until after release though
<rob^lt> (breezy)
<HiddenWolf> You're kidding me? :)
<HiddenWolf> Do we have another devel release out? ;)
<jsgotangco> in a few days
<jsgotangco> heh
<rob^lt> well there isn't much I can do about it now anyway, its too late
<jsgotangco> we'll surely be swamped with bugs in the faqguide, but hey, that's the fun part
<Kamping_Kaiser> yeh. i should do my part to swamp you actualy
<rob^lt> yay :)
<HiddenWolf> rob^, as with any idea, it's an idea, not a must have _now_
<rob^lt> HiddenWolf, yeah I know, just providing a different view is all
<jsgotangco> we have a good document base with the faqguide, we can build on it for sure =)
<jsgotangco> that's what makes things fun
<HiddenWolf> rob^lt, I was hallucinating when I woke up this morning, and thought it up. Thought I'd share. :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol
<rob^lt> yeah I do that sometimes, I wish I had a notepad next to my bed to jot some of it down
<jsgotangco> see? sleep is helpful then
<rob^lt> I came up with a good calendar idea for my lug website, but danged if I can remember it
* Kamping_Kaiser slams head against wall
<rob^lt> ouch
<Kamping_Kaiser> why didnt i see the 'change password' bit on bugzilla before :(
<Kamping_Kaiser> i could have been bug reporting for the last 3 weeks :$
<HiddenWolf> rob^lt, learn your pc to use voice recognition, and talk in your sleep. :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> :D
<rob^lt> I just bought a new laptop, maybe I should stick it next to my bed :)
<rob^lt> (but then I'll be tempted to search for pron :) )
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol.
<rob^lt> grr looks like the au breezy repo has died
<Kamping_Kaiser> huh?  ouch. i usuualy use internodes, so i havent noticed, but i was about to use the au one :(
<Kamping_Kaiser> so htats a pita
<rob^lt> yep, I want to install airsnort on my lappy!
<Kamping_Kaiser> heh. 
<Kamping_Kaiser> have to hit the masters or the US
<jsgotangco> the gb is always up to date earlier
<Kamping_Kaiser> they are tehy same servers as the master servers arnt they?
<Kamping_Kaiser> im just thinking speed wise, AU has some fat pipes to the US, but not to GB
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> i think that's were se starts
<HiddenWolf> Yeah, that's the only way in which debian still beats us hands down. Nice, fast mirrors
<Kamping_Kaiser> thank god. back in bugzilla. time to start searching
<jsgotangco> we have mighty bandwidth actually, not just enough 3rd party mirrors yet...but that's where bittorrent and jigdo come in =)
<jsgotangco> it'll improve
<Kamping_Kaiser> pity i dont have some bandwidth to donate :( im using a plac ei works bandwidth to download the packages i need for a mirror :0
<rob^lt> grr stupid time outta wack
<rob^lt> brb
<HiddenWolf> jsgotangco, with renown comes local ISP mirrors
<HiddenWolf> jsgotangco, that's what debian has
<jsgotangco> yeah
<Kamping_Kaiser> HiddenWolf: my isp has mirrored ubuntu since warty. just its not a public mirror
<HiddenWolf> wish mine did
<HiddenWolf> I'd like to pull my 20mbit for once. :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol
<Kamping_Kaiser> i like all updates+upgrades free bandwidth :)
<HiddenWolf> I'm actually drawing 300-400k from uk.archive now, so I can't complain.
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol. *looks at 256kbps connection*
<HiddenWolf> Kamping_Kaiser, being a student has it's advantages.
<Kamping_Kaiser> o_0 breezy stable tomorrow
<Kamping_Kaiser> 9 minutes + 9.5 hours for gmt :|
<Kamping_Kaiser> woo. 13th
<rob^lt> yay
<rob^lt> has been for 44 mins here, I have today off!
<Kamping_Kaiser> :D <10 hours for stable i asume
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol. well done everyone who worked on breezy :)
<rob^lt> i'm getting in some updates whist the bandwidth is still good :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> lmao
<rob^lt> the local au mirrors are at half their normal speed atm
<rob^lt> and its only like 1am
<Kamping_Kaiser> haha. updates?
<Kamping_Kaiser> its only 3 past here
<Kamping_Kaiser> WA wont be today for anotehr hour or so 
<ubuntugeek> howdy all.. anyone from the doc team around that can answer a question for me?
<ubuntugeek> anyone?
<Madpilot> is The Fridge considered a docteam project?
<Madpilot> if not, I do know that most of it's editors also hang out here... so why isn't there a 'Contact The Fridge's Editors" link right on the front page?
<Madpilot> The only place I can find one is if I view the whole of jdub's intro article, then it's right at the end of that article
<Madpilot> there needs to be a contact link near the top of the main Fridge page
<Madpilot> hi Burgundavia - and bye, I'm just off to work
<Madpilot> ;)
<thechitowncubs> Hey
<mdke> jbailey, ping?
<mdke> jbailey, unping, left a /query
<jbailey> =)
<mdke> ah :D
<mdke> reply any time in the next 24 hours :)
<mdke> -> bed
#ubuntu-doc 2005-10-18
<jbailey> jordi: g'm. =)
* ajmitch_ wonders if jordi is really awake
<robitaille> call for comments for the screenshots:   http://www3.telus.net/robitaille/quicktour/quicktour.html
<jsgotangco> robitaille, #ubuntu-sounder
<jbailey> What's #ubuntu-sounder?
<robitaille> another IRC channel.  The Ubuntu community didn't have enough of them...
* jbailey has lost track of how many he's on.
<jbailey> The things light up in irssi, I read them to see if there's something said that pertains to me...
* robitaille is at 10 and  tries not too have more than that
<robitaille> jsgotangco,  thanks
<jsgotangco> ok where to put this is the next question =)
<robitaille> ask Burgundavia ...it is his baby afterall :)
<jsgotangco> we'll just point the whole world in your website heh
<robitaille> jsgotangco,  these files are about to go... i don't want my isp to get mad at me :)
<jsgotangco> ./ must resist....
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, doc.ubuntu.com is a fine place to put it for now
<jsgotangco> hmmm
<jsgotangco> mdke has access to it
<Burgundavia> according to mdke it should just rebuild
<jsgotangco> i lost the pass
<Madpilot> For the Dapper version of the QuickTour, we should make that very first screenshot larger, especially if it's going to be of the entire desktop...
<Burgundavia> ya
<highvoltage> i know wiki isn't strictly doc-team,
<highvoltage> but does anyone here know where i can find the old edubuntu frontpage on the merged wiki?
<Madpilot> isn't it?
<highvoltage> Madpilot: i think i heard that at some point.
<highvoltage> perhaps it changed :)
* Burgundavia strongly disagrees with this "one wiki" idea
<jsgotangco> highvoltage,  its in /Edubuntu
<highvoltage> ah, how painfully obvious. thanks :)
<Madpilot> OK, I'm confused, and the main channel is chaotic, so I'll ask here: Has the full Breezy release already happened?
<jsgotangco> yes
<jsgotangco> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2005-October/000038.html
<Madpilot> cool. Off to try the torrents, then... I'll apt-upgrade my own machine, but I'd like to have the full ISO to burn for the little release party we're having tomorrow...
<Burgundavia> holy shit #ubuntu is a freaking zoo
<Madpilot> 630+ ppl
<Madpilot> all going apesh*t
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, oh, sure, have a fancy fridge
<jsgotangco> :P
* Burgundavia really must sleep
<Burgundavia> we just hit OSNews
<jsgotangco> nice
<jsgotangco> whiprush hosted the quicktour
<mdke> morn
<mdke> something wrong with the server Burgundavia ?
<jsgotangco> what server?
<mdke> doc.u.c
<jsgotangco> well nothing really
<jsgotangco> we'd like to publish the quick tour but i forgot the access...sooo
<mdke> isn't it working already?
<mdke> it does make all in trunk and copies everything to the server space
<jsgotangco> its in branch
<mdke> ok I'll do it
<mdke> i'm trying to organise help.ubuntu.com by the way
<jsgotangco> plone?
<mdke> no I'm just making another vserver on the linode
<jsgotangco> oh ok
<mdke> so if henrik get's back to me today about pointing help.ubuntu.com at that server, I'll put the quicktour there too k?
<mdke> if not, I'll put it at doc.u.c.
<jbailey> So..  Anyone feel like copying the branch to the trunk and running sed over it to make it all into Dapper?
<jbailey> We can try and be the first upload when the archive opens. =)
<mdke> jbailey, did you have any luck with those things in the gnome/Makefile?
(jbailey/#ubuntu-doc) mdke: I haven't had a chance to do anything with 'em.
(jbailey/#ubuntu-doc) My main machine is currently installing Breezy again... =)
(mdke/#ubuntu-doc) aha
<mdke> lemme know if you do!
<mdke> jsgotangco, you know esperanto?
<jsgotangco> i'ts an interest of mine for quite some time but no expert...
<mdke> cool
<mdke> jbailey, on the making things into dapper thing, we have entities for that reason, we can just change the entity
<mdke> jsgotangco, can you do me a favour? could you upload the following to branches/breezy/gnome/about-ubuntu/ ?
<mdke> http://librarian.launchpad.net/715668/715701/rosetta-aboutubuntu.tar.gz
<mdke> i haven't got svn access here
<jsgotangco> okay
<mdke> and the following to branches/breezy/generic/faqguide/ ?
<mdke> http://librarian.launchpad.net/715956/715989/rosetta-faqguide.tar.gz
<mdke> that's great thanks a lot
<mdke> here I don't have svn access, and at the office where my computer is I don't have any access to download tar.gz files :)
<jsgotangco> gee thanks slacker :)
<mdke> i promise I will work on getting the quicktour published within today
<mdke> as compensation
<jsgotangco> these are the translations?
<mdke> yes
<mdke> jbailey, is branches/breezy up to date with all your changes? it is ok to update translations in there, for the purpose of making html and so on?
<jbailey> mdke: It's up to date.  Make sure to only update with things that you might want to go into breezy still.
<jbailey> Anything dapperish should be on the trunk.
<mdke> oh sure
<mdke> i'm just going to update translations, nothing else
<jbailey> Cool.
<jbailey> And with any luck they'll be approved.
<jbailey> But otherwise, we'll just get it in with langpacks for dapper.
<mdke> jbailey, sure, but even if they are not, we will put them on our websites and locoteam websites
<jbailey> Cool.
<mdke> wicked
<mdke> :)
<mdke> congrats on Breezy btw
* mdke goes to work
<jbailey> To you too. =)
<jsgotangco> mdke, done
<jbailey> Sleep time.
<jsgotangco> night
<jordi> jbailey, ajmitch_: definitely not awake at 5am :)
<robitaille> sleep time here as well...
<poningru> blah
<thechitowncubs> has anyone ever tried to create an ubuntu doc team web page with all the best docs in a readable good looking web page?
<mdke> jbailey, any luck on that makefile stuff?
<jbailey> mdke: I don't have a working system atm.
<mdke> ouch
<jbailey> I think I'm about 4h from having one.
<mdke> blimey
<mdke> what are you on now?
<jbailey> laptop
<mdke> if you have time to look at the makefile and point me in the right direction of what is necessary to generate all locales, I can try and do it myself and upload from here
<mdke> jbailey, but i immagine you are pretty busy
<jbailey> I don't have a checkout, nor an easy way to get one.
<jbailey> My ssh keys and such are all waiting to be restored to this box.
<mdke> sure
<jbailey> Not busy, just frustrated.  My fault for choosing ppc as my primary architecture.
<mdke> gah. Well if you have time to look at it, it is here: https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/branches/breezy/gnome/Makefile
<jbailey> I keep running into stupid problems trying to get the md volumes setup right, it's giving back nonsensical error messages
<jbailey> Like "/dev/sda3 not a block device" 
<jbailey> When it clearly it.
<jbailey> s/it/is/
<mdke> i hope you can sort that
<jbailey> in <steved62@us...>	1	2005-06-22 14:59
<jbailey>   evms2/engine/plugins/replace Makefile.in,1.13,1.14	Kevin Corry <kcorry@us...>	1	2005-06-18 08:01
<jbailey> Bah
<jbailey> I'm sure I can.  I think it's having trouble coping with a 200GB md array
<mdke> ok well just PM me if you have any thoughts on that Makefile, I'm off home
<mdke> Burgundavia, ping
<kjcole>  /msg NickServ IDENTIFY pl0ver
<Kinnison> oops
<kjcole> Yeah. 
<kjcole> Embarassing.  And logged.
<claude> mdke, i succeeded in writing an HTML version of the FAQGuide in French
<claude> i will now propose it to the French Loco Team
<mdke> cool
<mdke> claude, i'm not quite there on the translations of the faqguide, so you were right to go ahead and do your own, but I should have the remainder sorted within a week or so, hopefully sooner
<claude> no problem
<kjcole> Is the public key for the Ubuntu ISO downloads MD5SUM.gpg anywhere obvious?
<kjcole> (The reason I asked here was that it seemed like a documentation issue.)
#ubuntu-doc 2005-10-19
<Kinnison> ciao all
<john__> In the FAQ Guide the titles should be bolded not the menu location
<john__> its hard to navigate
<segfault> hi. anyone around?
<Burgundavia> mdke, pong
<segfault> I registered the "learnlinux" project to start translating it to my language (pt_BR).
<segfault> Do i have just to send it (the po files) to rosetta admins?
<mpt> segfault, yes
<mpt> and Launchpad-related questions are more likely to get an answer in #launchpad
<segfault> i know, i asked here because the doc team had worked in some situations like this.
<segfault> those books are made by several PO files, and not one per book
<segfault> i dunno if it can be dangerous or no.
<segfault> IIRC, they converted the faqguide into one big file because of some problems
<john__> hi
<segfault> mdke, jbailey?
<ajmitch_> hi
<jabra> anyone know about a new ubuntuguide? (someone working on it, do they need help etc)
<fabbione> hi guys
<fabbione> hmmm kjcole isn't around..
<mdke> morning all
<mdke> Burgundavia, ping take two?
<mdke> jabra, yes have been working on one
<mdke> segfault, learnlinux is not our project
<mdke> jdub, ?
<jdub> mdke: yo?
<mdke> jdub, did you get my mail about planet?
<mdke> good morning btw
<jdub> dunno
<jdub> will check later
<jdub> returning to sleep now ;)
<mdke> thanks
<mdke> bah
* mdke goes to work
<Burgundavia> mdke, grr, seems we misssed each other again
<Burgundavia> mdke, email me
<Burgundavia> salut jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> hi Burgundavia 
<jsgotangco> how's things?
<Burgundavia> tired but happy
<Burgundavia> just came back from our Breezy release party
<jsgotangco> ohhh
<jsgotangco> we're going to have ours tommorow
<jsgotangco> after the the LUG meet
<Burgundavia> just 4 of us, myself, madpilot, robitaille and a mutual friend of madpilots and mine
<jsgotangco> that
<jsgotangco> that's Ubuntu Victoria?
<Burgundavia> indeed
<jsgotangco> wow
<jsgotangco> its so quiet today...
<Kinnison> Morning
<Burgundavia> morning Kinnison 
<Kinnison> hey corey. How's you?
<Burgundavia> pretty good
<Kinnison> coolio
<jsgotangco> brb
<rob^lt> hello
<jsgotangco> hey rob^lt 
<rob^lt> lt == laptop
* rob^lt got a new one
<jsgotangco> whoa
<rob^lt> that reminds me, I should enter it on the laptop page
<rob^lt> who messed around with restrictedformats?
<rob^lt> oh my bad, someone just put in a toc
<rob^> anyone know the current status of getting help.ubuntu.com going?
<segfault> dunno
<segfault> i can help to configure apache if wanted
<rob^> yeah I'd like to get this going soon now that breezy is out the door
<mdke> yeah i posted the status on the list last night
<mdke> any replies are welcome
<rob^> oh didn't see it
<rob^> whats the go?
<mdke> as set out in that email
* rob^ hasn't got it
<mdke> k
<mdke> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ubuntu.doc/3377
<mdke> a further message in that thread says that the 3rd item in that list is fixed
<rob^> well I can help out with number 2 if I get the time
<mdke> cool
<mdke> the main ones are the last two
<rob^> I also have some web hosting space if we want to temp host stuff
<mdke> re: the first one, we can always release at doc.ubuntu.com/breezy IMO
<mdke> there are 3 GB free on the linode so space isn't an issue
<rob^> segfault mentioned before he can help us with apache
<rob^> the rev history I can move to another page
<rob^> I beleave we need it somewhere as a requirement for one of the licences
<rob^> yay my spelling is great tonight
<mdke> hang on
<mdke> there should be a way to build the doc without the rev history
<mdke> don't edit the doc because you'll break the translations even more
<rob^> yeah, maybe I can just pull a copy out of svn and work on that for the web site
<mdke> no
<mdke> we want the translations to be able to go on the website too, don't forget
<rob^> still want translations on the site too
<rob^> yeah just thought that
* mdke nods
<mdke> or other websites
<mdke> segfault, if you can figure out what is wrong with apache and provide some patches, i'd be glad. I can give you a login
<rob^> hmm, well when will we be able to get a new translation? This would work out good because it gives me a chance to squash some bugs to boot
<mdke> ?
<mdke> you'll have to squash them for the next release I think
<rob^> so the website is out until dapper?
<mdke> the docs were frozen ages ago dude
<mdke> i don't see a reason to have two versions of the  faqguide , one in the distro and one on the web
<mdke> do you?
<rob^> yeah true
<mdke> the bugs are not bad anyhow
<mdke> I'm sure there is a way to build the doc without revhistory, because that doesn't appear in the main body of the document
<mdke> i'm just waiting for someone who understands xsl to tell me
<rob^> hmm
<rob^> a little above my head without some googling
<mdke> ok i gtg
<rob^> ok
<rob^> cya
<mdke> claude had an answer but it didn't work
<mdke> see that thread
<mdke> (gone)
<eruin> I've got a slight issue when translating the faqguide
<eruin> warning and caution is the same in my language
<eruin> should I just make the two the same in my translation, though it'd look weird?
<mpt> eruin: hmm, interesting question
<mpt> do you know which is more serious?
* mpt hasn't seen the faqguide in a while
<mpt> ok, warning is more serious
<mpt> could you translate that as a word like "danger" instead?
<mpt> hmm, perhaps that's too dramatic
<mpt> perhaps translate caution as something like "be careful"
<jabra> could I help out with the ubuntuguide for breezy?
<eruin> mpt, yep, my initial translation amounts to something like "critical warning", which might seem a bit over the hill
<mpt> eruin: Keep in mind that you don't need to translate the sentences directly -- you could translate them in another way that gets across the same meaning, like a map legend for example.
<mpt> but really, that section of the document is rather embarrassing, it shouldn't exist at all
<eruin> I really wish I had the time and resources to create a document detailing all the parts of varios packages that make a translator's life difficult ;)
<eruin> direct translations is indeed a problem
<eruin> I correct many of them every day
<eruin> :/
<eruin> many translators also seem to use less formal language than you'd normally see in proprietary applications
<eruin> we really should have a guideline for things like that
<eruin> if there isn't one already
<jabra> I am currently working on a step by step guide to install ubuntu breezy 
<jabra> doing it in vmware with a movie to play back
<jabra> is there anything I could help with for the ubuntuguide?
<mdke> ah crap
<mdke> segfault, still here?
<segfault> yeah
<segfault> what happened?
<mdke> know anything about character encoding?
<segfault> a little
<segfault> whats cracking?
<mdke> ok here is the situation
<mdke> check out  http://help.ubuntu.com/quicktour/quicktour.html
<mdke> symbols are all cranky until you put your browser to utf-8
<mdke> so the solution would probably be to set apache DefaultEncoding to utf-8
<mdke> but when I do that, the faqguide goes crazy
<segfault> the html file should tell the browser what he's using
<segfault> or at least some .htaccess 
<mdke> i guess the problem is that the quicktour uses utf-8 and the faqguide iso
<mdke> but that really shouldn't be a problem :/
<mdke> there must be something wrong with apache
<segfault> # AddDefaultCharset Off
<segfault> you can add that to .htaccess file
<mdke> if I put AddDefaultCharset Off in the apahce conf, would that work too?
<segfault> humm, dunno
<segfault> IIRC, the default charset isn't really set
<mdke> ok it works :)
<mdke> cool thanks
<segfault> np
<mdke> jbailey, any luck on that Makefile?
<jbailey> mdke: Nope, but I can look at it now easily enough.
<mdke> yay
<jbailey> I'm mostly back up and running.
<jbailey> mdke: So the problem was that you want to generate HTML stuff, yes?
<mdke> jbailey, the makefile generates html stuff
<jbailey> Is this to go into wiki.ubuntu.com? 
<mdke> jbailey, i need two changes, 1. to build all languages rather than just C and 2. to build one faqguide rather than for 3 arches
<mdke> jbailey, it is to go onto help.ubuntu.com
<mdke> and in the case of the translations, to whichever site the LoCoteams wish
<jbailey> Ah, help.ubuntu.com is new to me.
<mdke> jbailey, it is new
<mdke> it has only been working for 5 minutes :D
<jbailey> Ah!
<jbailey> Where is it hosted?
<mdke> on our linode
<mdke> which is well slow
<mdke> but it was the only quick way to get a site up
<mdke> doc.ubuntu.com is there too
<mdke> the idea is that doc.u.c will be for workinprogress, while help.u.c for stable stuff
<mdke> jbailey, oh there is a 3. as well: the faqguide is currently building html to include the revhistory, if possible I would like it to stop that (http://help.ubuntu.com/faqguide/C/index.html)
<jbailey> Sorry, what's a linode?
<jbailey> Hmm
<mdke> jbailey, it's a virtual server (linode.com)
<jbailey> The revision history can be nice to know if something changed.
<mdke> jbailey, not when the doc is stable and frozen, users want to know how to do stuff, not the revhistory IMHO
<mdke> anyhow, the faqguide as appears in the OS has no revhistory
<jbailey> Ah cool, I didn't know about linode.com before.
<mdke> jbailey, canonical have a couple, originally intended to get more but they realised they were bad value compared to dedicated servers :) anyhow the docteam has one of em
<jbailey> Bad value?  How?
<jbailey> I don't see how it could go badly at $20 a month. =)
<mdke> not much power and there are cheap dedicated
<mdke> http://www.serverpronto.com/
<mdke> ^ is the one they went with I think
<jbailey> These prices are insane. =)
<segfault> i have one at www.valueweb.com
<segfault> stable as rock.
<mdke> jbailey, heh
<mdke> jbailey, so have i been clear about the 3 issues?
<jbailey> Yeah, Ithink so.
<jbailey> do you want the other languages named faqguide.LANG.html ?
<jbailey> I think that's the way Apache usually expects them for content negotiation.
<mdke> hmm
<mdke> i don't mind
<mdke> i wasn't planning to get into that
<mdke> i was just gonna link them all :D
<jbailey> =)
<mdke> jbailey, in fact I think linking them is a good idea because in some cases they will wish to link to external websites (ubuntu-it.org ubuntu-fr.org etc)
<jbailey> 'k
<mdke> so any filename :)
<jbailey> 'k
<jbailey> Bah
* jbailey has to install subversion and the stuff to generate the docs.
<mdke> jbailey, i can give you a login to the linode server
<mdke> jbailey, you can't commit but you will at least have access to a checkout
<jbailey> No, it's all good.
<jbailey> I need this stuff installed locally anyway
<mdke> k
<mdke> jbailey, gtg now, gimme a bell if you get anywhere with that Makefile. If you do, we can rerun your script to update the translations, and build some translated html :D
<jbailey> Cool.
<jbailey> For dapper should we have regular updates of both then?
<jbailey> The package and the docs.ubuntu.com?
<jbailey> That would mean feeding updates to the LoCoTeams somehow.
<joker667> hi everybody
<joker667> i just got my bluetooth headset working with skype and I wrote a small Howto
<joker667> Perhaps it would be usefull for someone else, I just posted it in the forums: http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=75978 . Dont know if its good enough for the wiki
<mdke> jbailey, doc.ubuntu.com will be updated with our dapper stuff yeah, but it won't get translated until doc freeze, so no need to let the locoteams know
<mdke> jbailey, only the released stuff (breezy) is translated
<mdke> (help.u.c)
#ubuntu-doc 2005-10-20
<jabra> http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/jabra/breezy-docs.html
<jabra> a little something I wrote up
<jabra> may be of use to someone
<jabra> anyone have docs on install flash that works ?
<Kamping_Kaiser> what part doesnt work?
<jabra> uh swf doesn't load various swf's
<robitaille> jabra,  install the package "flashplugin-nonfree"  from the multiverse repository  (if you are using Breezy)
<jabra> multiverse? don't see that in /etc/apt/source.list?
<jabra> nm, sorry my mistake
<jabra> music is broke after I install it
<jabra> damn 
<Liz> did yelp make it back as the default help menu reader?
<Madpilot> hi all
<robitaille> hi Madpilot . So hows your computer?
<Madpilot> well, I'm in Breezy now... 
<Madpilot> after dropping down to the command line and completing the upgrade w/ apt-get...
<Madpilot> X crashed (or something) overnight
<Madpilot> and wouldn't come back...
<robitaille> apt-get is the only true way to dist-upgrade a computer.  none of that fancy gui thing :)
<Madpilot> heh
<Liz> i do it both ways
<Madpilot> the fancy gui thing didn't work anyway...
<Liz> from the fancy gui :P
<Madpilot> I've got a couple of complaints, though...
<Madpilot> ;)
<robitaille> I'm reinstalling the final Breezy of my laptop right now.  Then the faimily PC will get the Breezy treatment tomorrow
<Liz> i did my upgrade this morning
<Madpilot> Muine no longer clears to the background with "ESC", and it doesn't appear in the notification area anymore...
<robitaille> you are missing muine-plugin-trayicon from universe is my guess
<Madpilot> ah, OK, checking Synaptic now...
<Madpilot> that works, thanks. why the heck did they split that out into a seperate package?
<robitaille> don't know.  Don't use muine
<Madpilot> wiki question: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserComments <-- this is odd, not to useful, and should probably have been a forum post. Should I nuke it?
<robitaille> yeah, I think it should go.  
<Madpilot> will do
<nickrud> Madpilot, the resticted format page really should be more explicit about disabling marillat, and explain why, I think
<Madpilot> nickrud: it probably should...
<Madpilot> do you want to edit it, or should I?
<nickrud> Madpilot, sorry, I missed that. Take a look, will you :)
<Madpilot> is there a way to get the wiki to produce coloured text? red, for example?
<nickrud> no clue. I'm pretty much a newbie with wiki stuff.
<Madpilot> I could do it in about 3 seconds with HTML/CSS, but wiki markup is such a kludge...
<robitaille> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MoinMoinMarkupExamples
<Madpilot> robitaille: why isn't that page linked to from the HelpOnEditing page?
<robitaille> last item is about colours
<robitaille> we have a HelpOnEditing page?
<Madpilot> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpOnEditing
<robitaille> I'm a bit out of the loop for the wiki...
<Madpilot> it's immutable, though
<nickrud> it's moinmoin generic
<Madpilot> robitaille: the colours thing only applied to table backgrounds, AFAIK
<robitaille> I know, but it's a start
<Madpilot> hmmm
<Madpilot> <span style="color:red">Blathering</span> doesn't work, dammit...
<nickrud> http://harmonies.tzone.org/RPGLex/index.cgi/DiffParser has colors
<nickrud> don
<nickrud> 't know python well, either :)
<Madpilot> nickrud: that's inside code blocks only, I think
<Madpilot> blasted wiki engine makes doing simple markup way too complex sometimes
<nickrud> Madpilot, I saw that
<nickrud> bold is better than nothing, I guess
<Madpilot> bold is about the only formatting option we've got...
<nickrud> is there a wiki channel?
<nickrud> ah, #moin
<mdke> morning
<Madpilot> hi
<mdke> jbailey, no luck with that Makefile?
<rob^> is the css still an outstanding issue?
<rob^> (with help.u.c)
<mdke> yes
<rob^> ok, I'll take a look then :)
<mdke> cool
<mdke> thanks
<rob^> np
<rob^> mdke, have you seen /build/gnome/faqguide.css?
<mdke> rob^, yes
<rob^> I might mess around with that
<mdke> rob^, best to work on the css before it is generated
<mdke> not the one in build
<rob^> no good?
<mdke> branches/breezy/generic/faqguide/faqguide.css
<mdke> that's the right one i think
<mdke> but the css issue is really the most minor right now
<mdke> we could easily release with the current css
<rob^> so its just the css, the make file and rev history?
<rob^> is there any way to make html versions of the translations with the current make file?
<rob^> I guess not
<mdke> no that's the problem
<rob^> I might have to have a think about how to tackle that one
<rob^> we should be able to do it with some messing around..
<rob^> I'll have a look tomorrow
<mdke> there are three problems with the Makefile right now
<mdke> first it is generating three arch-specific versions of the faqguide
<mdke> second it is not building translations
<mdke> third, I would like it to build a one-page version as well as the multipage versions
<mdke> plus, the revhistory thing
<rob^> I think the second (and maybe the first to boot) solution is to change where the xsltproc is pointing
<rob^> (the line)
<mdke> possibly yeah
<mdke> i will ask sean too
<mdke> he'll know how to solve all 4
<rob^> heh yeah
<rob^> I have an idea, I'll have a think about the best way to do it, if sean doesn't come up with something in the mean time I'll have a play tomorrow
<mdke> cool
* rob^ is off to play monopoly
<mdke> have fun!
<rob^> yay
<froud> ping mdke 
<mdke> hi froud 
<mdke> i'm just about to go to the supermarket tho
<froud> hi
<froud> just quick question
<froud> do you want three arches or not?
<mdke> nope, cos they are all the same
<froud> at present nobody did profile markups to support it
<froud> OK
<froud> np
<froud> later
<mdke> thanks matey
<froud> when are you merging to trunk?
<mdke> the main thing is the translations tho
<mdke> next week hopefully
<froud> Ok
<froud> ping mdke 
<mdke> froud, yo, just got your email
<mdke> thanks a lot dude
<froud> np, please test and let me know if it works for you
<mdke> ok i will
<mdke> that revhistory thing
<froud> note your build depends on the xsl
<mdke> is that a later version of docbook than is in breezy?
<froud> not on ubuntu now
<mdke> ah erm
<froud> pls check docbook-xsl with apt-cahche
<mdke> Version: 1.68.1-0.1ubuntu1
<froud> If not then you and team will have to bump breezy docbook-xsl ver
<mdke> :/
<froud> :-) 
<mdke> we can't do that!
<mdke> breezy has been released already
<froud> well just you as team
<mdke> hmm
<mdke> is there no way to do that with an earlier version?
<froud> yeah, but why when I have it in newer version would I want to do that
<froud> break mdz's legs and it will get done?
<mdke> can you tell me how?
<mdke> i need to build the stuff on the linode server and it has Ubuntu
<froud> yes, but then I may aswell do it myself
<mdke> true
<froud> just install the new version
<mdke> I'd rather not play around with that unless I really have to
<mdke> getting errors on the build btw
<mdke> lots of this:
<mdke> runtime error: file ../libs/faqguide-html-chunk-cust.xsl line 43 element call-template
<mdke> xsl:call-template : template inline.boldseq not found
<mdke> no result for ../generic/faqguide/C/faqguide.xml
<froud> did you svn up on breezy
<mdke> YES
<mdke> oops
<mdke> sorry caps
<froud> Hmm sec
<mdke> lines 40, 43 and 46 seem to be the problem
<froud> oops my bad sec
<froud> svn up
<froud> I forgot to replace the import paths with those on an ubuntu system
<mdke> testing
<mdke> thanks
<mdke> i'd really appreciate the thing being compatible with Ubuntu re 1.68
<mdke> given that it's an ubuntu repo
<froud> Well it will not fail
<froud> it will just output as it does now
<mdke> yeah
<froud> faq-DE is empty
<froud> so I have taken it out of the faq:
<mdke> empty?
<froud> and C has XInclude errors
<mdke> yeah i saw that
<froud> Yah DE is a blank file
<mdke> oh yeah
<mdke> i'll sort that
<mdke> thanks
<mdke> i thought we'd sorted that already
<froud> You will see in thr translations that the docbook localizations are automatically kickin in
<froud> best example look at HE
<mdke> ah that is cool
<mdke> because in yelp they are ltr rather than rtl
<froud> Just one of the advantage of Docbook Whahhaahha feel the power
<mdke> yeah but still, yelp should do it automatically from the xml i reckon
<froud> The yelp concept is nice, but it is too broken for production at present, MHO
<froud> but I think you know my thoughts ... :-)
<mdke> ok i'm going for dinner
<mdke> yep
<froud> me to enjoy
<mdke> thanks again
<froud> np
<mdke> jbailey, that Makefile stuff is done :)
<mdke> shit we're gonna have to edit all the faqguide po's manually again
* mdke swears at rosetta
<jabra> here are some docs I wrote 
<jabra> http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/jabra/breezy-docs.html
<mdke> cool jabra 
<mdke> s/allocated/allocate
<mdke> nice screenshots!
<mdke> you could include instructions on how to do the partitioning via the installer I guess
<mdke> hey rob^ 
<mdke> the guide got a mention at http://linuxtoday.com/infrastructure/2005101401026OPDT
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-doc:Burglaptop] :  Ubuntu Doc Team - general discussion - backlog at http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs | Time to start thinking about Dapper | Projects on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamProjects | SVN - https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos | Remember the Ubuntu community code of conduct @ http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/conduct first.
<mdke> hey there burgs
<Burglaptop> hello
* Burglaptop is thinking of Dapper
<mdke> :)
* mdke is thinking of breezy translations
<mdke> but hey, you're the ideas man :)
<Burglaptop> if nobody dreams big, then we get nowhere
<mdke> well actually i think that if we aim to do too much, we'll get nothing done, a bit like for Breezy
<Burglaptop> hmm
<mdke> hmm
<Burglaptop> I think that was more lack of fully spec-ing everything out
<Burglaptop> if the faqguide had been better speced other could have worked on it earlier
<Burglaptop> and I kind of screwed the pooch with the quicktour
<mdke> not sure dude
<mdke> we have about 3 contributors right now
<mdke> maybe 4
<Burglaptop> yes
<Burglaptop> the issue was that we need to start specing in the next month
<Burglaptop> to start writing as soon after UBZ as possible
<mdke> ok i agree with that
<mdke> except the UBZ bit
<Burglaptop> you want to start writing earilier?
<mdke> since only you are gonna be at UBZ, the specs will mostly have to be done in irc meetings/email
<mdke> we can't do the specs at UBZ
<Burglaptop> yes, I mean specing before UBZ
* mdke nods
<mdke> we need a big fat meeting
<mdke> ASAP
<Burglaptop> you want me to organize it?
* Burglaptop notes that FF is a pile of crapoon 256mb of ram
<mdke> heh
<mdke> i would get jerome on it
<mdke> but feel free
<mdke> i would say, a short period of brainstorming/ideas, followed by gathering them together, followed by meeting
<mdke> and we need to put to bed the UbuntuHelp/faqguide debate
<Burglaptop> that is going to be the most contentious issue
<mdke> yes
<mdke> but in my opinion, apart from the "design a new help interface", actually the contentiousness is basically a matter of calling the doc a different name, and making it more user friendly
<Burglaptop> yes
<mdke> the two ideas are pretty reconcilable
<Burglaptop> the Breezy faqguide talks a lot about hwat you need to add, but nothing about what is already on the system
<mdke> yes that is true
<mdke> that is the basic distinction we've been making between faqguide and userguide
<mdke> perhaps they should be in the same document
<mdke> btw did you see the good mention of the guide at http://linuxtoday.com/infrastructure/2005101401026OPDT
<mdke> ?
<Burglaptop> I skimmed that and assumed he meant ubuntuguide.org (which seems to be down
<mdke> i don't think so
<Burglaptop> hmm, is up again
<mdke> "onboard documentation"
<Burglaptop> yes, I just read that
<Burglaptop> mdke, what your goals for dapper?
<Burglaptop> ok, aboutubuntu for dapper needs some serious hacks
<Burglaptop> hey jjesse 
<jjesse> hiya Burglaptop
<jjesse> wow there was a lot to catch up on after a week being gone
<Burglaptop> how goes life in Kubuntu-land?
<jjesse> Burglaptop just got back from a week being !internet on vacation w/ wife
<Burglaptop> ah
<mdke> Burglaptop, i don't really have any right now
<mdke> better infrastructure in our repo i would say
<mdke> maybe we could adopt the gnome-doc build system
<Burglaptop> ok
<Burglaptop> to be honest, translations and building docs are things I should care about but cannot seem to
<jjesse> Burglaptop: i agree w/ you right now I would rather get the docs done then build them
<Burglaptop> ok, just sent something to the list about About Ubuntu/browser start page for dapper
<Burglaptop> ok, I think I sent enough stuff to the list for now
<Burglaptop> salut mpt 
<mdke> Burglaptop, tbh, i don't think the browser start page is going to be much our decision
<Burglaptop> mdke, we can talk about it
<mdke> true
<Burglaptop> even if it isn't ours, we can think about it and present what we think is the best idea
<mdke> but there is not a lot of point if we come to decisions and then other decisions are made over the top of us
<Burglaptop> code speaks volumes
<Burglaptop> I intend to start hacking something together with my brother before UBZ
<mdke> okay
<mdke> but be aware that they will probably employ professionals to do it
<mdke> they tried to for breezy already but too late
<Burglaptop> ya
<Burglaptop> but the professionals they hire could come and talk to us, you know
<mdke> they could
<Burglaptop> mpt had designs on redesigning all of ubuntu.com
<mdke> heh
<mpt> redesigning? noooo
<mpt> just minor improvements
<mpt> like no longer playing hide-the-links
<Burglaptop> yes
<Burglaptop> and a much briefer front page
<Burglaptop> but that is really more a job for the marketing team
<mdke> hmm
<mdke> it is really more a job for canonical employees
<Burglaptop> yes
<Burglaptop> should we pass the quicktour off to the marketing team?
<mdke> if they want it
<mdke> it's a quite young team right?
<Burglaptop> it is a better fit for them
<mpt> There's a marketing team??
<Burglaptop> yes
<mdke> mpt, yeah, see lp
<ajmitch_> apparatnly
<Burglaptop> lots of startup energy
<Burglaptop> I expect a lot of that to simply die
<mdke> it's another one of these teams that springs up
<mdke> like new user network
<Burglaptop> mdke, I think that we did well for this release
<mdke> -doc?
<Burglaptop> it is usually after the first energy dies that things fail. Observe the nun
<mpt> or ubuntu-artwork
<Burglaptop> yes
<mpt> Burglaptop, the nun?
<mdke> i think that jane and others at canonical have marketing well in hand tbh
<mpt> the sun?
<Burglaptop> mpt, New User Network
<Burglaptop> mdke, you can never have enough marketing
<mpt> yes, yes you can
<mdke> yeah
<mdke> bad marketing is counterproductive
<Burglaptop> yes, I should have clarified that
<Burglaptop> but Ubuntu has not yet hit that point, imo
<mpt> For example, in Ubuntu's current state, TV advertisements declaring it as an alternative to Windows would be counterproductive
<Burglaptop> yes
<mdke> ok i'm off
<mdke> ciao
<mpt> tchau
<Burglaptop> mpt, where do you want to go for dapper?
<Burglaptop> doc-wise, I mean
<mpt> the HelpfulHelp direction, I think
<mpt> and DefaultHomePage
<ajmitch_> lovely, launchpad usability complaints filed as a critical bug :)
<Burglaptop> mpt, you beaten bradb over the head for the new malone look yet?
<mpt> Burglaptop, don't blame bradb or myself
<mpt> We're operating under managerial constraints
<Burglaptop> I see
<Burglaptop> was that layout directed from above?
#ubuntu-doc 2005-10-21
<mpt> that's what I mean by managerial, yes :-)
<Burglaptop> I see
<mpt> but I'll try to have an alternative layout to demo to the devs at UBZ
<mpt> so they can beat appropriate people over the head
<Burglaptop> ever thought about malone.launchpad.net and rosetta.launchpad.net ?
<mpt> yeah, a few times
<mpt> but not sure how much point there would be
<Burglaptop> people here about rosetta and hear about launchpad
<Burglaptop> that is where I would go
* mpt discovers that windows.microsoft.com works
<jsgotangco> hi
<Madpilot> hi jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> brb
<jsgotangco> hi
<Burglaptop> salut
<Burglaptop> I just added an item for the agenda
<jsgotangco> ahh
<jsgotangco> checking..
<jsgotangco> i just finised downloading the dvd
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> its just the install and live in one
<jsgotangco> *grrr
<jsgotangco> err Burglaptop LOTS
<jsgotangco> heh
<Burglaptop> yes, I realize that
<jsgotangco> i can probably ask ogra how he did the gtk stuff with hwdb
<Burglaptop> we can probably use the gnome one
<jsgotangco> do you know what package is that?
<Burglaptop> the program is gnome-about
<Burglaptop> package is the same
<jsgotangco> ahh its small
<jsgotangco> how do you grab the source?
<Burglaptop> apt-get source gnome-about
<jsgotangco> ahhh right
<jsgotangco> downloading...
<jsgotangco> what the heck its downloading gnome-desktop source
<jsgotangco> heh
<Burglaptop> did you manage to pull it apart
<Burglaptop> ?
<jsgotangco> dpkg-source: command not found
<jsgotangco> i'm missing something
<jsgotangco> i haven't done a chroot yet
* jsgotangco this is a fresh dvd install
<Burglaptop> I just ran into the same thing
<Burglaptop> I think you need build-essential
<jsgotangco> yes
* jsgotangco puts gnome-about in his todo list later
<jsgotangco> im browsing the forums atm
<jsgotangco> its been a while since i looked
<Burglaptop> dapper forum is already hopping
<jsgotangco> dapper?
<jsgotangco> what crackful stuff are they discussing atm
<Burglaptop> yhu7iopkijuuukk
* Burglaptop observes that one should never let ones gf near their computer
* jsgotangco noticed that a lot of forum posters are desktop pimps
<Burglaptop> maybe taht was a comment on the forum posters
<Burglaptop> night
<jsgotangco> night Corey
<mdke> morning
<Madpilot> hmm... yes, it's technically morning here
<jsgotangco> hi
<jsgotangco> lol
<jsgotangco> boring  day for me
<mdke> how come?
<jsgotangco> raining outside wanted to go to the park with my kid
<mdke> indoor games only i guess
<mdke> jsgotangco, got a moment?
<jsgotangco> sure
<mdke> i saw from some bugs that there is talk of fixing bugs in the faqguide in an -update
<jsgotangco> well i only said its possible
<mdke> in the bug you commented on, I would agree
<mdke> but rob^ has made a few comments on correcting typos and other bugs in an update
<mdke> I was planning to go to the TB with a proposal on updates
<jsgotangco> push a whole doc update?
<mdke> and if it is limited to including sample and more translations, I think it will succeed
<mdke> but if I have to admit that there are gonna be string changes too, I will probably not have a hope in hell
<jsgotangco> if its just the samples, its possible, but with changes to strings? can't say
<mdke> that's what I think too
<jsgotangco> the sucky part is that its just the download release, not even pressed cds
<mdke> ?
<jsgotangco> i mean the bugs at the moment are limited to people who downloaded the iso
<jsgotangco> a lot more will install once they recieve their cds from shipit
<mdke> oh
<mdke> well the odd typo is not a problem
<jsgotangco> if you notice the code snippets they are badly aligned as well
<mdke> not a big deal
<jsgotangco> well its not an issue really, but its easily fixed by not aligning the code snippet itself
<mdke> looks ok in the html
<jsgotangco> yes but yelp is playing dumb again lol
<jsgotangco> ill brb
<rob^> gee, I'm not having much luck getting breezy branch
<rob^> svn keeps wigging out half way through
<mdke> heya rob^ 
<rob^> hi mdke 
<mdke> when you get it, if you change any strings I'm gonna beat you up
<rob^> I left it to download last night, came back and its just sitting there
<rob^> heh :)
<rob^> I won't!
<rob^> I just want to mess with the Makefile
<mdke> ah that is done now too
<mdke> sean did it yesterday
<rob^> did you get it working? I noticed a few updates by you
<mdke> yeah
<rob^> oh. goody!
<rob^> hmm its stuck on the kde Makefile again
<mdke> heh
<mdke> i'm putting up some translations of the faqguide as we speak
<mdke> although the damn revhistory thing still isn't fixed
<mdke> because sean insisted on doing a fix which requires docbook xsl 1.69
<rob^> is the revhistory that big a problem?
<rob^> it should be on the credits page anyhow
<mdke> yeah it's a problem in my eyes
<mdke> it takes up the whole front page
<rob^> from memory thats why we moved it when we wanted to ship html, what changed in the makefile between then and now
<rob^> ?
<mdke> i don't remember that
<mdke> hmm
<mdke> rob^, 
<mdke> know what this is all about?
<mdke> Error: no ID for constraint linkend: synaptic- usage.
<mdke> XRef to nonexistent id: synaptic- usage
<mdke> that space shouldn't be there should it?
<rob^> no space
<rob^> is that in a translation?
<mdke> yes
<mdke> in more than one translation
<rob^> something went wrong there then, thats now how it was
<mdke> its ok in the english version?
<mdke> it is like that in ALL the translations AFAICS
<rob^> is the link "How do I use Synaptic to install packages?"
<rob^> if so, its ok in the english version on breezy
<mdke> hmm
<mdke> how the hell did that happen
<rob^> dunno, I'm clicking on it now in yelp and it works
<mdke> yeah the english version looks ok
<mdke> goddammit
<mdke> it is fine in the pot
<rob^> odd
<mdke> it is fine in the po's
<mdke> it is fine in the translated xml
<rob^> don't you just love xml?
<mdke> wtf?!?!
<mdke> oh no
<rob^> yelp isn't having a brain fart is it?
<mdke> only SOME of the instances in the translated xml are ok
<rob^> o0
<mdke> that is fucking crazy
* mdke corrects them by hand
<mdke> a different number of occurrences in each xml...
<mdke> it keeps getting crazier
<rob^> yay my debian website got over 200 hits that wern't bots this week :)
<rob^> that is pretty odd
<rob^> the line isn't appearing in launchpad and people changing it is it?
<rob^> I've seen some odd things when translating before
<mdke> no because the po's are fine
<rob^> hmm
<mdke> oh well
<mdke> must be a bug in xml2po
<rob^> maybe :(
<mdke> or a bug in me
<rob^> heh
<rob^> I'm off, cya mdke 
<mdke> bye
<Kamping_Kaiser> should i file bugs on spelling in bugzilla or just announce them here?
<Kamping_Kaiser> it seems overkill to use bugzilla
<mdke> fix them after we've merged back to trunk
<mdke> there are lots of spelling bugs open, but I agree it seems overkill
<Kamping_Kaiser> ok. ill hold any/all bugs untill after the merg
#ubuntu-doc 2005-10-22
<jsgotangco> hi robitaille, Burgundavia 
<Madpilot> hi everyone
<Madpilot> robitaille: you going to be out on the protest lines tomorrow morning?
<jsgotangco> protest?
<jsgotangco> for what?
<Madpilot> our provicial gov't has tried to impose a contract on the province's teachers, and removed various collective bargaining rights
<Madpilot> the rest of the labour movement is going to shut down the city tomorrow to remind the gov't who actually does the work in this province
<jsgotangco> wow
<Madpilot> http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/10/11/strike-bc-teachers051011.html
<Madpilot> http://vancouver.cbc.ca/regional/servlet/View?filename=bc_bc-fed-teachers20051014
<Madpilot> I've spent most of my weekend organizing our union local's actions for tomorrow... I'm tired, and the blasted week hasn't even really started!
<jsgotangco> ok so victoria will be closed for business today...
<Madpilot> tomorrow, locally, but yes, pretty much
<jsgotangco> rob^, congratulations!
<rob^> ?
<jsgotangco> http://linuxtoday.com/infrastructure/2005101401026OPDT
<jsgotangco> "Another thing that stands out is the excellent onboard documentation, particulrly the Getting Started guide. Every tried getting Java running in Firefox in Fedora? I have, and even when I would find decent instructions out on a third-party site, I would still not have Java working. For someone who needs his local radar to go into an animated loop on Noaa.gov, this was torture."
<rob^> oh yeah
<rob^> thanks
<rob^> :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> i asked on wed/thurs last week if anyone knew when the next meeting was but there wasnt any clear idea. is there a meeting tomorrow? or is that rumor?
<mdke> friday
<mdke> see DocteamMeetingAgenda
<mdke> thanks for your patience in hanging around btw Kamping_Kaiser 
<Kamping_Kaiser> thats ok. ill make sure teh day[night]  is free :) 
<Kamping_Kaiser> thanks mdke :) its in teh calander :D
<Kamping_Kaiser> heh. i just got the the 'we need a meeting thread' :| sorry for noise
<mdke> :)
<mdke> couple of days lag on your email?
<Kamping_Kaiser> yeh. last read thursday, started today with 700 messages+ :|
<mdke> gd luck
<jjesse> grin i had the same problem when i got back on saturday
<jjesse> just finished all my messages :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol wd
<Kamping_Kaiser> :P
<jbailey> mdke: Heya, sorry.
<jbailey> mdke: Went offline for the weekend.  
<mdke> jbailey, hi, np
<mdke> mhz_cooking, ping
<mdke> mhz_cooking, i don't understand your recent email, can you clarify here?
<mhz> mdke: pong
<mdke> hi
<mdke> what's up?
<mhz> "recnet email" i have just responded another one.
<mdke> ok
<mdke> I think that is the one I'm talking about
<mhz> "recnet email" i have just responded another on?
<mhz> "recnet email" i have just responded another on?
<mhz> sorry
<mdke> the one I'm talking about starts "Matthew East"
<mhz> mdke: anything particular you want me to clarify on?
<mdke> yes lots
<mhz> hehehe
* mhz reading ir
* mhz reading it
<mdke> mhz, ok first of all, are you suggesting that subpages are a good idea, or not
<mhz> ohhh, that.
<mdke> second, are you suggesting that CamcelCase is a good idea, or not?
<mdke> third, what do you mean by "sugar on top"?
<mdke> fourth, what did I do to piss you off?
<mdke> i didn't really understand your message in the context of the subject of that thread (wiki-forum relationship)
<mdke> mhz, still here?
<mhz>  /subpages are good if people involved on using them (writing and reading) are aware that there's some rules to implement them. Ideally, a wiki works 100% perfectly if it keeps horizontal layout (no subpages), because then everyone can just think of a page name and it is very likely that page actually exists. Example of diff:  EdubuntuDhcpdSetUp is very diff to DHCPServerSetUp in terms of linking pages while you write and remembering.
<mhz> mdke: sorry I take so long to respond but I am at a keyboard I am not used to and also english is not my native one :)
<mdke> no problem
* mhz will respond to everything because he believes this is a very important issue, esp. at this point where docing is really needed.
<mdke> thanks
<mhz> piss me off? nop, not at all! I thought I was pissing people off by insisting on this matter :D lol
<mdke> it was the "sugar on top" thing that made me think you were angry. And the "Matthew East" at the beginning of your email :)
<mdke> glad to hear you're not
<mhz> mdke: sugar on top, in terms of Please be rude if you need to, as long as I get to understand
<mhz> and the Matthew East, just because I realized there were two Mats.
<mhz> :)
<mhz> now, as for the 2nd question...
<mdke> ah ok
<mhz> CamelCase is the most simple way to generate links. Also, if we get used to CamelCase, when we are writing, we'll get more chances to autcreate links instead of using []  symbols
<mhz> CamelCase is simple and yet extremely effective
<mhz> IF we use them on regular basis.
<mdke> ok so you like CamelCase
<mdke> and you don't like subpages
<mdke> i have the reverse opinion, at least for documentation.
<mhz> My perception about the "chaos" is that I have seen more than a couple of pages that are very very similar in content but with names that either are hard to remember or have []  on them. So if I needed to link them from any page, I would always have to come back and make sure of the name.
<mdke> pages that are very very similar in content really shouldn't exist, they should be merged into one page
<mdke> but yeah, I take your point about easy-to-remember names
<mhz> Documentation is clearer if it has subpages, imho, when we talk about "master documentation" and not "100% public" wikis.
<mhz> MoinMaster is lot diff from MoinWiki
<mdke> how about question 4?
<mdke> oh no you did that one
<mhz> Basically, if there were agreement on Dhcp or DHCP, or Ltsp or LTSP, etc., then we'd be more organized. Also, if we knew when we can use /subpage and when we should choose PageName, we'd also have more standarized wiki docs
<mdke> that is pretty much impossible, there is no right answer about "when" to use subpages and so on, especially because anyone can edit the wiki
<mhz> that's my point
<mhz> What if...
<mhz> we had at least some simple restrictions:
<mhz> a) You want to edit a page? Excellent! Please register and commit to these simple guidelines.
<mdke> we may go that way in the future. However, that is not my decision to take and I have grave doubts about it
<mhz> b) Please use CamelCase on regular Basis
<mhz> c) Please use Acronyms in a CamelCase fashion
<mdke> mhz, the general view of the docteam members who work on the wiki is that camelcase is not useful for documentation
<mhz> why not?
<mdke> because it is difficult to read, and people looking for help do not care about making the life of the wiki editors easier. The focus is on usability
<mdke> c.f. wikipedia
<mhz> I have worked close to one Chilean "librarian" of WikiPedia. Yes usability is an issue but they still have librarians to admin docs :)
<mdke> indeed
<mdke> Camelcase is simply difficult to read
<mdke> anyhow, i don't want to get into an extended discussion on this because everyone has different opinions 
<mhz> people looking for help can use any search method and still get to a page because Moin results are CaSe independant
<mdke> yes
<mdke> but when they get there, it is harder to read. Also, if they are searching by EYE, it is harder for them
<mhz> yes, indeed
<mhz> Hence I mentioned in my email that unfortunately, is a pity people are not used to wikis. IMHO, a wiki is the fastes way to generate and organize docs. I does have its limitations but if one understands how to bypass them, then it is a real powerfull resource.
<mdke> i love wikis
<mdke> have you seen the edubuntu website? you'd like it
<mhz> Actually, I have used Moin for CMS, Address Book, Calendar, ToDo, Quotation maker, Version Controling, Translation platform, News, etc.
<mdke> you are obsessed!
<mhz> edubuntu? Yes, I have seen it and already loved it
<mhz> LOL
<mhz> I used to actively participate in Moin gang (I am big fan of simplicity when it comes to power)
<mhz> mdke: it may logically sound "obsession", i agree. But the fact is that Moin does have a flexibility that may get people confused or may get people to just refuse it.
<mdke> i like Moin, it's good
<mhz> I have tried at least 5 diff wikis, and still moin beats them
<mhz> however, I do agree that when it comes to have official documentation, then either have a "freeze" ACL for some pages or just use another tool
<mdke> we use html
<mhz> MoinMoin gang is using moinmaster for a frozen or offcial /data dir and moinmoin for regular basis. 
<mdke> yes
<mhz> I have "ported" Moin to Html with no bigger issues.
<mhz> (moin2html does it all)
<mhz> :)
<mhz> Some guys are even generating PDF from moin pages
<mhz> and they all seem to be happy
<mhz> :)
<mdke> sure
<mdke> but right now docbook is the best place for us to go
<mdke> we're not going to move to moin
<mhz> mdke: myabe my humble point here is taht if we have this tool (moin) and we can get the most out of it, why not just give it a try?
<mdke> that is not good enough I'm afraid
<mhz> mdke: ok
<mdke> we can't just change the way we work to just give things a try
<mdke> docbook is also a tool we have
<mhz> i absolutely agree, I am not asking to "move".
<mdke> ah
<mhz> I am saying, that is we have some basic "WikiConduct" or something, and we wisely combine moin power with docbook, we may end up having a gtreater work
<mhz> that is = that if
<mdke> well i agree with having a wikiconduct, although not with what you think wikiconduct should be. But I am not clear on your proposal for "combining" the two
<mdke> perhaps you can clarify in an email proposal
<mhz> okidoki
<mhz> mdke: thx for your time and patience :D
<mdke> np
<mdke> thank you
<mhz> mdke: any WikiLibrarianTeam like?
<mdke> WikiTeam
<mhz> duh!
<mhz> i had no idea
<mhz> cool
<mdke> (gone)
* Kinnison heads out, back later
<apokryphos> many of the links on doc.ubuntu.com aren't working 
#ubuntu-doc 2005-10-23
<jsgotangco> hi all
<mhz> jsgotangco: I subscribed to ML and read about DocumentationTeam. Also i read about a WikiTeam
<jsgotangco> well there's a small group that actually clean up the wiki (not change content)
<mhz> is that part of same ML?
<jsgotangco> yes
<jsgotangco> its a subgroup of the docteam
<mhz> oh, I see.
<mhz> jsgotangco: so, basically, any time I clean up wiki pages towards more wiki like code, I am being part of WikiTeam ? :)
<jsgotangco> sure coordinate with people like mdke and robitaille they're wiki people...
<jsgotangco> and Madpilot
<Madpilot> mhz: you can't escape being part of the WikiTeam! ;)
<mhz> lol
<jsgotangco> ahh i see dapper seeds...
<mhz> Madpilot: when you specify on WikiTeam ToDo's " Convert all pages to MoinMoin Syntax and deactivate the other input methods"...
<mhz> especifically, does that involve CamelCasingPages?
<mhz> jsgotangco: seeds? already?
<jsgotangco> not necessarily
<Madpilot> mhz: as far as I know, that's basically what it means, yes.
<jsgotangco> sometimes you'll get ridiculous titles with CameCase
<Madpilot> there doesn't seem to be a lot of old-wiki markup left
* Madpilot is not a huge fan of CamelCase; it's hard to type and looks funny...
<mhz> Madpilot: but based on the ML discussion and my talk to mdke, CamelCase is not a real favourite here.
<mhz> exactly
<mhz> So, how should one understand this?
<jsgotangco> CamelCase is useful but can be limiting
* mhz is not stupid, it's just he spent more than a year wiking pages (into moin)
<mhz> jsgotangco: i agree
<mhz> so, basically, it's the 'librarian' personal judgment to decide?
<jsgotangco> nice
<mhz> jsgotangco: unvelievably.. I agree with you on not using Moin to fulfil the Ubuntu goal.
<mhz> So now, soon enough, I'll have to learn DocBook and Bazaar
<jsgotangco> bleahhh
<Madpilot> hmm?
<jsgotangco> something is borked in kubuntu...
<jsgotangco> it doesn't even load my usb stick
<jsgotangco> its still too loud too
<jsgotangco> hehe
<Madpilot> Kubuntu is too loud? huh?
<jsgotangco> i should disable the sound events
<mhz> jsgotangco: is kde set to 'auto-mount' or manual?
<jsgotangco> its supposed to auto-mount dohhhh
<jsgotangco> the previous version did
<mhz> could you try 'manula' mounting?
<mhz> 'manula' = manual
<jsgotangco> i'll try that later
<jsgotangco> need to sort things out first with the kubuntu docs (reviewing them now)
* mhz letting jsgotangco work
<jsgotangco> the kde docs are very nicely formatted
<jsgotangco> Automounting
<jsgotangco> If you are sick of hunting for where your CD-ROM and Memory stick are setup, in Kubuntu 5.10, these are automounted for ease of use.
<jsgotangco> An error occurred while loading media:/sda1:
<jsgotangco> The file or folder media:/sda1 does not exist.
<jsgotangco> hehe
<mhz> hehehe
<mhz> lol
<jsgotangco> oh my god Katapult is great
<mhz> AFAIK, it shoul not exist when we talk about automounting
<mhz>  /media/something should be autogenerated
<mhz> right?
<jsgotangco> right
<spear> hi !
<jsgotangco> hi there
<spear> :)
<spear> i'm trying to grab documentation about usplash from the development team
<jsgotangco> ahhh
<jsgotangco> documentation is always welcome
<jsgotangco> :)
<jsgotangco> what we lack at the moment are developer docs
<jsgotangco> (but most debian docs apply)
<jsgotangco> you might be interested to join in the meeting on the 21st at 14UTC
<spear> i belong to the french translation team, so partly documentation, but i'll send feedback if i get some :)
<spear> i'm requesting information about Usplash
<spear> i needed to install it on a home built kernel, but it's so poorly documented i did't know what the prerequisites are ???
<Madpilot> hi robitaille
<spear> i have the information :)
<robitaille> Hello Madpilot 
<robitaille> I still can't believe that the way to list to Lessig talk on free culture is via a flash presentation (http://lessig.org/freeculture/)
<robitaille> the best way...alternate ways are via mp3 and powerpoint slides...
<Madpilot> oops. So much for 'free culture', hmmm?
<robitaille> since my "free week" is up on my laptop, maybe I should reinstall flash just for this.
<rob^> hi
<Madpilot> robitaille: so how did your "free week" go?
<robitaille> it was fine.  I'm goingb to briefly blog abo0ut before gonig to bed.  The only thing I notice was flash; for that presenation, and a couple of other web sites I visited.  Everything else I used was available in the main and universe repos.
<Burgundavia> robitaille, Lessig also uses a non-free wiki
<sladen> spear: I don't know there is much.  there is the specs and the source code
<spear> i asked the development team : all that is needed is framebuffer & initramfs in the kernel
<spear> Hi Paul, thought you were in Finland or something like that ?
<spear> i wanted to contact you about Usplash, visiting you homepage, but i thought you were busy, or maybe i'm too shy :D
<sladen> spear: if you looked at my away message, you probably noticed that I'm currently in Helsinki ;-)
<sladen> spear: what would you like?
<spear> i only wanted to know about Usplash what the prerequisites were once you use a home-built kernel (not an Ubuntu all made kernel) ; but i asked to the development channel, excusing about annoying them, and they kindly told me that in a new kernel, initramfs and framebuffer are the only required things that need to be activated in the kernel for usplash to work
<sladen> there is nothing in the kernel at all for usplash
<sladen> usplash == user-splash
<spear> :D
<sladen> done entirely in userspace
<sladen> all it wants is a framebuffer
<spear> darn, so these options aren't required either ?
<sladen> vga16fb (16 colours) is used because that's the only one that also gives us hibernate and suspend
<sladen> what options?
<spear> kernel options ?
<spear> frambuffer & initramfs have to be activated ?
<sladen> you need to pass the 'splash' otherwise usplash doesn't know that it should start
<sladen> and you need to pass 'vga=' so that the kernel knows which video mode to use
<sladen> ...not all of the options on the commandline are used by the kernel, several are passed through to the programs starting up the system
<spear> i think that, like many, things that got me confused about Usplash is that i looked after splash things, and read about bootsplash, and as mentioned on the dev channel, i should forget everything about bootsplash (kernel patches, options in the kernel) because it has nothing to do with Usplash
<sladen> correct
<spear> i'll try to be clear and repeat it on our french sections : usplash has nothing to do with bootsplash (and it is not a fork)
<sladen> oui
<spear> :)
<spear> merci Paul pour votre patience
* spear watches Paul's level of french understanding
<sladen> spear: merci, et pardon je petite Francais ;-)
<spear> :) thanks Paul
* spear has to change his reply on hiw own post on ubuntuforums where he says he found framebuffer & initramfs are required ... correction
<spear> can i say in the post i contacted you and you clarified things or should i only mention i found the answer on the channel ?
<spear> (the irc channel, not on a ferry boat bringing me to UK to ask you directly the question (and as you're in Helskinki ...))
<sladen> spear: I don't mind
<sladen> :)
<sladen> sur la Marche dans la Eurostar
<sladen> l'Eurostar I think
<spear> la Manche !
<spear> marche is " step "
<spear> i'll take the Eurostar next week to visit London :)
<spear> I livein Lille
<sladen> ooh, I pass through there from time-to-time.  Normally to/from Brussels.
<sladen> and I have a friend in Gent, so if I leave it too late to go Gent->Brussel I take the slow train across the border (Toursca?) and then try to blag my way on at Lille
<spear> Gent is a hard time because not many speak french there ...
<spear> i remember, years ago, i was called (am a technician) to fix a computer in a shop selling Whool ... the employee didn't speak french, and MS-DOS was in flamand (kinda dutch) ... nightmare :)
<spear> what's the weather like in Helsinki ?
<spear> so
<jsgotangco> so?
<spear> :)
<spear> soso
<spear> thanks, bye !
<silbs> hi folks
<silbs> is there any doc on the oem installer? couldn't find it on the wiki
<mdke> silbs, don't think so
<silbs> mdke: thanks
<jjesse> argh froud pisses me off sometimes (see his last email)
<mdke> silbs, np sorry i didn't have a better answer :)
<mdke> jjesse, yes, speak to Riddell and sort it out
<mdke> there is no point allowing him to make "plans" about kubuntu documentation without going through the people who are doing the work (yourself and Riddell)
<jjesse> mdke:  working on a reply to the group and copying Riddell  in on it
<mdke> k
<Riddell> hmm?
<jjesse> frustrating email to the doc list, i'll forward it on to you
<jjesse> Riddell:   did you merge branches/breezy/kde back to trunk/kde?
<Riddell> jjesse: nope, I'll try and do that now
<jjesse> what's going on with the previews on doc.ubuntu.com not working for any of tthem
<mdke> not working in what sense?
<apokryphos> check the links
<mdke> ah i see
<mdke> fucking hell
<mdke> someone has changed the index.html
<mdke> mental note: get backups
<mdke> ok will sort it at some stage
<jjesse> apokryphos: just submitted your patch
<apokryphos> cool, thanks
<apokryphos> Not sure if you guys want to use it, but on kde docs we have a docbook sanitizer which comes in very handy (and you could use): http://englishbreakfastnetwork.org/sanitizer/
<apokryphos> not *as* useful since your markup is a *lot* less strict than the kde docbook, but it could be good for a consistency with particular word-spellings etc
<jjesse> apokryphos:  thanklook into its ill 
<mdke> bookmarked
<jjesse> me as well
<WaterSevenUb> hi
<WaterSevenUb> jbailey, could you please look to http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18050
<Riddell> jjesse: I got distracted by 3.5beta2 and I'm off out now but poke me if I don't put them in svn this evening
<jjesse> Riddell: no worries is it easy to upgrade to kde 3.5 beta 2?
<WaterSevenUb> jbailey, I'll ping you tomorrow... g go..
<jbailey> I've taken 18050, I'll look at it.
<mdke> hi jjesse 
<froud> mdke: ping
<mdke> hi
<froud> I am concerned about branches/breezy and trunk drift
<mdke> ok
<froud> it's getting hard to merge back to trunk
<mdke> getting?
<mdke> nothing has changed really in the branch
<froud> yah the number of conflicts arising in increasing
<mdke> ok
<mdke> well feel free to help out with the merge
<froud> the branch was created at 1771
<mdke> will you be involved in -docs stuff in the future?
<froud> as the gap between 1771 and HEAD grows it will be more and more difficult to resolve the problems
<froud> I am going to try merge back now
<mdke> please speak to jbailey before doing that
<froud> you can still use branches/breezy
<mdke> sure i know
<froud> just we need to merge back to trunk more often
<froud> is jbailey working in trunk on something?
<froud> ping jbailey 
<froud> :-( Oh no
<froud> D trunk/gnome/aboutubuntu/ca/about-ubuntu-ca.omf
<froud> D trunk/gnome/aboutubuntu/ca/Makefile
<froud> D trunk/gnome/aboutubuntu/ca
<froud> D trunk/gnome/aboutubuntu/ca
<froud> error (1)
<froud> that's the second time it has failed
* mdke shrugs
<froud> Arhgghh
<mdke> what is the problem?
<froud> was anyone taking care of the branches/breezy to trunk diff
<mdke> i think that jeff will do it
<froud> when last did he try do it
<froud> I cant get the merge to work
<froud> svn merge -r 1771:HEAD https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/branches/breezy trunk
<mdke> he may not have tried yet
<mdke> froud, you didn't answer my question about working on -docs in the future
<froud> We may have a problem :-(
<froud> I do stuff when I can and when I see a way to do so without conflict
<froud> my itches are not those of the others
<mdke> true
<mdke> like "i am planning to do x, y, z with kubuntu-docs"
<froud> what do you mean?
<froud> x y z ?
<froud> Ah you mean fork it out
<mdke> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2005-October/003901.html
<froud> I just feel that kubuntu-docs does not do well in ubuntu
<froud> the people here are focused on ubuntu not kubuntu
<mdke> true
<froud> from the past releases experience they dont care much for kubuntu
<mdke> but your sudden appearance after several months of silence just saying "I am forking kubuntu docs and making them a subset of upstream kde" is odd
<froud> as a result newbies comming to do kubuntu work are often left unloved
<mdke> especially after the hard work of jjesse and Riddell 
<froud> no I have discussed this with kubuntu devel
<froud> mdke: Riddell should remember me discussing the problems with kubuntu docs in Ubuntu svn
<froud> the aim is to work in the good of kubuntu-docs
<froud> its not a negative thing
<froud> the sources will be open
<froud> as they must
<froud> and people who work only on kubuntu can get bandwdith
<froud> The breaking of faqguide profiles was a big problem
<mdke> whatever
<froud> mdke: can you really say that staying in the ubuntu svn will benefit kubuntu-docs?
<mdke> sure
<mdke> the svn is completely irrelevant
<froud> people like Riddell and jjesse can continue in another repository
<mdke> there is nothing to stop the two trees from being separate
<mdke> but there is absolutely not one single reason to have 2 repositories
<froud> mdke: see this and tell me so https://mirror1.cvsdude.com/trac/techdocs/turbocash
<mdke> ok i've had enough
<froud> OK
<froud> well, hop you will be OK with the merge back to trunk
<mdke> thanks
<froud> bye
<thechitowncubs> any of you use Network Profiles?
* mdke has finished setting up our new shiny server :)
<mdke> no more linode slowness for us!
<thechitowncubs> neato
<mdke> hi thechitowncubs 
<mdke> thechitowncubs, did you see the recent stuff I posted to the list about the wiki, specifically wiki forum relations?
<thechitowncubs> mdke: i'm reading it now
<mdke> cool
<mdke> thechitowncubs, basically the idea is to clean up the forum page and to make a decent and simple wiki guide
<thechitowncubs> ya sounds good
<thechitowncubs> i'll check out the Draft page
<mdke> good on ya
<mdke> are you still doing wiki work?
<thechitowncubs> mdke: every once and a while
<mdke> cool
<mdke> thechitowncubs, can I ask you about the LP wiki team?
<thechitowncubs> mdke: alrighty
<mdke> thechitowncubs, who approved SteveMyers?
<mdke> i think we need to set up a scheme for approval, to try and encourage people to get in touch with the docteam mailing list if they do wiki work/join that team
<thechitowncubs> I approved him, has he done something wrong?
<mdke> yeah
<mdke> he did loads of random editing on the wiki, deleted our comments on his homepage, and hasn't answered my emails
<mdke> in general, never contacted the doc team at all
<thechitowncubs> Wow, do you want me to do anything about it?
<mdke> IMO if we want to use the LP team for a concrete reason, I think we should use it to encourage people to come forward and engage in dialogue before approving them
<mdke> most LP teams have a some barrier to entry
<thechitowncubs> ya, sounds good, at the time when i got the email I hadn't been in touch for a while
<mdke> that could be ours
<ajmitch> eg MOTUs have to go through the TB grilling
<mdke> also, perhaps saying that they have read and understood the guide when we finalise it
<ajmitch> so a doc team grilling should be a good step
<mdke> ajmitch, ++
<mdke> not a grilling, just a "come and talk to us"
<thechitowncubs> That was the original reason for the approval scheme but I slipped a bit
<mdke> because that SteveMyers guy really has ignored all our efforts to involve him
<ajmitch> well, grilling in the sense of 'what do you want to do, and how?'
<mdke> also read his homepage on the wiki
<mdke> it contains a number of untruths (Ubuntu Forum Staff) and some weird stuff
<mdke> ajmitch, yeah the translation teams also have a barrier to entry too
<thechitowncubs> mdke: thats really odd
<ajmitch> his writing skills are poor on his own wiki page
<mdke> yeah, perhaps disactivate him with a nice message to get in touch with us at the docteam list
<mdke> ajmitch, you should see the wiki pages he's created ;)
<ajmitch> mdke: I shudder to think..
<thechitowncubs> mdke: no problem
<mdke> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PostFix
<ajmitch> CamelCase & all?
<mdke> it gets worse as you go down
<ajmitch> oh dear
<mdke> i started tidying up the top and then just gave up
<mdke> gtg to bed now
<ajmitch> eek
<ajmitch> that's one scary howto
<mdke> lol
<mdke> compare and contrast with this, by a complete newcomer who announced it nicely on the mailing list: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Mailman
<mdke> (bed)
<thechitowncubs> Alright I deactivated, we'll see if he really does want to get involved.
#ubuntu-doc 2006-10-16
<localuser> Hello all
<nixternal> why do people join for 3 minutes
<Madpilot> spammers or regulars?
<nixternal> [19:19:23]  --> localuser has joined this channel (n=localuse@69.166.118.58).
<nixternal> [19:20:25]  <localuser> Hello all
<nixternal> [19:22:05]  <-- localuser has left this server (Client Quit).
<nixternal> im thinking a spammer, as i have seen him on a couple of channels today with the same thing
<Madpilot> odd
<Plug> maybe to get /names
<pepsiman> Can someone apply this patch to svn please http://rafb.net/paste/results/P0f6mS74.html
<nixternal> mdke: ping?
<nixternal> hiya LaserJock ;)
<LaserJock> hola
<nixternal> it seems there have been some version changes in Kubuntu since the release notes were completed
<nixternal> Konversation is now 1.0.1 and KTorrent is now 2.0.3
<nixternal> how do i go about getting that fixed the right way?  as if i make changes, it will break translations will it not?
<pepsiman> Can someone apply this patch to svn please http://rafb.net/paste/results/P0f6mS74.html
<LaserJock> pepsiman: I'll take a look
<nixternal> well that would be LaserJock's job on that one ;)
<pepsiman> these long lines make patches hard to read
<nixternal> ya they do
<LaserJock> yeah, yeah, yeah
<nixternal> there are 2 lines i can't distinguish the changes..but it looks good to me nonetheless
<LaserJock> I need to figure out the best way to edit these
<LaserJock> I either get tiny little lines, or 1 line per paragraph
<nixternal> well, im sure come 6 months from now that is all going to be different anyways
<LaserJock> stupid line wrapping ;-)
<nixternal> is it possible pepsiman for you to do 'svn diff > LaserJock_needs_a_grammar_checker.patch'
<nixternal> :D
<nixternal> i can't wink in my smiles no more, jono don't like that ;)
<nixternal> i always do ;)...as it is one less shift
<LaserJock> darn, I read that this morning too
<nixternal> hehe
<LaserJock> I was like, "Oops, that's me" :-)
<nixternal> you are guilty as well i see
<nixternal> haha me too
<nixternal> in konversation i will just setup a filter to take my ;) and turn it into :)
<nixternal> whoever came up with the smileys anyways needs a new hole in his/her head
<pepsiman> LaserJock: patch ok?
<nixternal> 
<pepsiman> ;)
<LaserJock> pepsiman: haven't looked at all of it but it looks fine
<LaserJock> pepsiman: I'll try to commit it soon, I'm in the middle of wading through email
<pepsiman> ok
<mdke> nixternal: pong
<mdke> there aren't any screenshots in our docs are there?
<LaserJock> not in mine :-)
<mdke> good
<mdke> how's it going LaserJock 
<LaserJock> busy
<tonyyarusso> Say, why does Edgy not have the Desktop Guide, etc. format in the system documentation?
<LaserJock> it just keeps getting busier
<LaserJock> because we wanted to make it better :-)
<tonyyarusso> Gotcha.
<tonyyarusso> Haven't really poked around too much to see what is there now; just noticed it was different when I tried to point a Dapper user to something.
<mdke> it's still there just under a different name
<mdke> LaserJock: can you tell me what's wrong with the commit I just made on debian/rules?
<mdke> debian/rules:29: *** missing separator. Stop.
<LaserJock> mdke: you probably need the tab the lines
<mdke> all of em?
<LaserJock> yep
<mdke> or just the indented ones?
<LaserJock> just move everything over 1 tab
* mdke nods
<mdke> thanks
<LaserJock> are the indentations you have tabs or spaces?
<mdke> I think I will implement that for all documents, we waste so much time typing everything into debian/rules
<LaserJock> yeah
<mdke> that should have been debian/install
<mdke> still.
<mdke> ah, doesn't work
<mdke> ah, did wrong command
<mdke> LaserJock: ok, that doesn't work because it says: cp: target `usr/share/ubuntu-docs/ubuntu/menus/' is not a directory: No such file or directory
<mdke> do I need to make the directory too?
<LaserJock> oh, hang on a sec
<LaserJock> you probably want to copy it to debian/ubuntu-doc/usr/share/ubuntu-docs/ubuntu/menus/
<mdke> I want it to go to usr/share/ubuntu-docs/ubuntu/menus on the filesystem
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> but it's installed relative to debian/ubuntu-doc/
<mdke> hmm. I got those lines off dholbach, it's odd he would have overlooked that
<mdke> I'll try anyhow
<mdke> let's see what kubuntu does
<mdke> debian/ubuntu-docs with an "s", right?
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> basically what happens is that when it goes to build the .deb it makes a tmp dir, debian/<packagename>/ and you install everything in there
<mdke> ahh
<LaserJock> then it compresses that dir all up to make the .deb
<mdke> cp: target `debian/ubuntu-docs/usr/share/ubuntu-docs/ubuntu/menus/' is not a directory: No such file or directory
<LaserJock> oh darn, I don't have the edgy branch checked out
<mdke> you can use the server for super fast downloading, if it helps.
<mdke> if you don't have time, don't worry though
<LaserJock> mdke: did that work?
<LaserJock> oh wait, you had a directory error
<LaserJock> you should be able to just do a mkdir -p debian/ubuntu-docs/usr/share/ubuntu-docs/ubuntu/menus/ before your stuff
<nixternal> mdke: i was just going to ask you how i should go about fixing the version stuff with kubuntu edgy release notes?  there are 2 changes, konversation 1.0.1 and KTorrent 2.0.3.  will this hamper the translations?  is it ok to make these changes?  Riddell requested them btw
<nixternal> <Seveas> nixternal, you lousy b*tard 
<nixternal> muhahaha ;)
<Seveas> @channel plugins.lart.enabled True
<Seveas> @lart nixternal 
* Ubugtu sends FesterAnvil hurtling through the sky to land on nixternal
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> Seveas: i was gonna point you out for starting that craze, but decided at the last minute i wouldn't do that ;)
<nixternal> ^^ winky smile!!!
<Seveas> nixternal, you should have :D
<nixternal> actually, i like the b*tard retaliation
<nixternal> ya i can spell
<mdke> LaserJock: trying
<sladen> yo gang, what happened to  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveCDCustomization* ?
<sladen> eg.  we have external links going to  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveCDCustomizationHowTo
<sladen> can there at least be a redirect if things have moved
<nixternal> there should be sladen
<nixternal> a redirect that is
<sladen> we lose googlefoo and people get upset if they can't find stuff :(
<Burgwork> Seveas: can we have the ubuntu bot in -marketing?
<Seveas> Burgwork, which one and which functions?
<sladen> nixternal: mmm, can I at this to the todo list :)
<mdke> sladen: might be an erroneous link? The pages LiveCDCustomization and LiveCDCustomization/Dapper work
<nixternal> the LiveCDCustomizationsHOwTo was never there
<Burgwork> Seveas: ubotu
<Burgwork> for the !seen stuff
<nixternal> !seen johnlittle
<Seveas> factoids/package lookup as well?
<sladen> mdke: it was the first link I found via google for   ubuntu rebuild livecd
<sladen> mdke: I suspect it existed at some point
<Burgwork> don't need that
<nixternal> arg
<Seveas> ok
<Seveas> then you should be set now
<nixternal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveCDCustomizationHowTo?action=info
<nixternal> that will let you know if it ever existed
<mdke> sladen: I don't see that for some reason. What google is that?
<sladen> Seveas: we have redirect, 
<Seveas> sladen, ?
<nixternal> http://www.google.com/search?q=ubuntu+live+cd+customization+howto&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial&client=firefox-a
<sladen> mdke: http://www.google.com/search?q=ubuntu+rebuild+livecd  second page (http://dsplabs.utt.ro/~juve/blog/index.cgi/01147559232)  link at the bottom
<nixternal> that is interesting
<nixternal> that page has never been on the wiki, according to the wiki
<mdke> either the page changed name early on, or he got the link wrong
<nixternal> the cached page is even bogus
<mdke> we can insert a redirect, but I'm not wholly convinced it's worth adding another page to the wiki for such links. Especially since that document is now on the help wiki
<sladen> it's not linked on the help wiki
<mdke> and the correct page appears quite clearly on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveCDCustomizationHowTo
<sladen> (not yet, but redirects will help google find it)
<sladen> ah, I didn't give it *time* to do the redirect
<sladen> I clicked on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveCDCustomization and saw an empty page, clicked 'back', angsted here :)
<sladen> anyway, this is *wrong* <meta http-equiv="refresh" content="0;URL=http://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomization">
<sladen> that is not the way to do redirects
<mdke> you'll need to report a bug in MoinMoin about that.
<sladen> redirects need to be done at the HTTP level with a 301 Permanently Moved header
<mdke> it depends on our wiki software
<nixternal> any words on the future of moinmoin on the servers anyways?  it seems there has been some talk about media wiki
<mdke> haha
<sladen> URM.  #refresh... not #redirect?
<mdke> sladen: #redirect in MoinMoin is used for transferring to another page on the same wiki, not external pages
<mdke> #refresh is used to refreshing to an external url
<sladen> so, #redirect needs patching so that if it starts http://  ...
<mdke> LaserJock: no, I'm not getting it :/
<LaserJock> mdke: hmm, could be because it's cdbs. is it giving you the same error?
<mdke> LaserJock: now it says "mkdir ... file exists"
<mdke> I think I will give up and do it the old debian/install way for now, then we can sort it out for edgy+1
<sladen> where can I grab the moinmoin source used for the wikis from?
<mdke> sladen: http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/ is the homepage
<nixternal> i believe it is somewhere in bzr
<nixternal> or there for the .orig
<sladen> mdke: yup, I can get fresh source, but presumely we're already running a hacked versoin
<mdke> we are running a slightly out of date version
<sladen> exactly
<mdke> it has a patch for launchpad authentication, but nothing seriously different
<nixternal> well, that was supposed to be fixed already
<mdke> if you want to contribute though, it's best to work on the fresh moinmoin version, or at the very least 1.5, we'll be upgrading soon
<mdke> if you make a patch for the development version, it should work fine with 1.5
<mdke> LaserJock: ok, I've done it the debian/install way and it seems to work
<LaserJock> k, I must be overlooking something
#ubuntu-doc 2006-10-17
<pepsiman> jono: ;)
<jono> hey pepsiman 
<LaserJock> heh
<pepsiman> I'm with you on the winking thing
<LaserJock> jono: man, I've been doing "doh!" a lot today :-)
<pepsiman> LaserJock: done with your e-mail yet?
<LaserJock> bah
<jono> pepsiman, :)_
<jono> LaserJock, hehe
<jono> LaserJock, get my mail ?
<pepsiman> jono: I've noticed that a lot of canonical employees are 27
<jono> pepsiman, really?
<pepsiman> at least 3
<LaserJock> jono: yes, thanks
<LaserJock> pepsiman: looks good
<pepsiman> I haven't done a proper survey...
<jono> LaserJock, would be good to have a chat about building up the MOTU army
<LaserJock> jono: yes
<pepsiman> LaserJock: svn commit -m "Apply patch from Malcolm Parsons <malcolm.parsons@gmail.com"
<pepsiman> night
<LaserJock> pepsiman: heh, you come with your own commit message? how convenient :-)
<LaserJock> pepsiman: done
<jjesse> hiya'
<digeratess> I believe I found an error on help.ubuntu.com. What's the proper way to report it?
<jjesse> is it in a commuity doc or is on it the main site itself?
<digeratess> main site
<digeratess> https://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/httpd.html
<jjesse> send an email to ubuntu-doc@lists.ubuntu.com
<digeratess> will do
<nixternal> or you can always file a bug ;)
<nixternal> digeratess: what is the error?
<digeratess> Section re Virtual Hosts instructs people to use a <NameVirtualHost> block for name-based virtual hosts and a <VirtualHost> block for others.
<digeratess> there is no such thing as <NameVirtualHost> 
<digeratess> rather, there is NameVirtualHost directive, which isn't specifically related to name-based virtual hosts, despite the similar verbiage
<nixternal> ahh, good eye on that one
* nixternal has never even read over that server guide
<digeratess> curious--why does http redirect to http for the doc?
<digeratess> I mean redirect to https
<digeratess> well, that doc also tells people to copy the /etc/apache2/sites-available/default file to make new virtual hosts
<digeratess> but it doesn't tell them if they don't delete the NameVirtualHost directive at the top, they'll get errors
<digeratess> In fact, that directive should not be in that default file at all. it should be in server config level
<nixternal> ya, i never understand the reasoning behind https with both wikis, but obviously they have a reason for it
<digeratess> thanks y'all!
<Celeste> hi
<Madpilot> hi Celeste 
<Celeste> Madpilot, here I am
<jjesse> hello
<Celeste> what I want to say is:
<Celeste> there is a hotel (but everyone knows that we talk about the hotel because it is a sentence on the hotels website)
<Celeste> and not far away are 3 places to go for "cross country skiing"
<Celeste> thats like skiing, only not on a mountain
<Madpilot> yes
<Celeste> skiing the gully
<Celeste> so the sentence should say:
<Celeste> you can <sport>  near to the hotel in ... ... ...
<Celeste> but it has to sound good
<Celeste> :)
<Madpilot> "You can cross country ski near the hotel in <one>, <two>, and <three>."
<Celeste> sometimes, solutions are so easy that I cannot figure them out because they are too easy to see
<Celeste> thank you very much Madpilot !!
<Madpilot> no problem. English is an evil language, with awful grammar. ;)
<Celeste> actually the grammer is simple
<Celeste> Madpilot, the grammer of most european languages is much more difficult
<Celeste> german, french, ....
<Celeste> Madpilot, would you have time to have a look at tome text files containing just some lines english text?
<Madpilot> Celeste, sure
<Celeste> fantastic!
<Celeste> Madpilot, I am just writing all the stuff down, so I will be finishing everything within the next 15 minutes.   Is it ok when I show you the texts after finishing every single text?
<Madpilot> that's probably easiest
<Madpilot> Celeste, if you want to PM me, you'll need to register your username here on Freenode.
<Celeste> Madpilot, I am registered
<mpt> Anyone: The desktop guide apparently refers to Canonical as "a holding company", which it is not
<Madpilot> so it does - Section 1.1.7
<Madpilot> "...sponsored by Canonical Ltd., a holding company founded by Mark Shuttleworth."
<KenSentMe> I'm trying to edit a page on help.ubuntu.com and want to place a return between two lines. In the edit mode the both texts are on seperate lines, but when i preview them, they're on the same line. Anyone know how to fix that?
<pepsiman> blank line between?
<KenSentMe> pepsiman: that's what i did now
<nixternal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BR
<nixternal> doh
<nixternal> [[ BR ] ] 
<nixternal> but bring them together
<nixternal> add a space if if is after a URL also
<KenSentMe> nixternal: i don't understand the URL part
<nixternal> the url is a mistake
<nixternal> i have a auto replace filter set for [[ ] ]   to directo to the wiki
<nixternal> ie
<nixternal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam
<nixternal> if i enclose something in the brackets it forwards to the wiki page
<KenSentMe> nixternal: a, ok
<pepsiman> I see ;)
<KenSentMe> nixternal: well, you've been updated about my edits
<nixternal> hehe
<Ubugtu> New bug: #66581 in ubuntu-docs "en_GB translation of default home page linked to en_US" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/66581
<nixternal> i think that is an /etc/alternatives issue isn't it?
<jsgotangco> nixternal: ok so what happened?
<pepsiman> nixternal: Is it an alternatives issue that makes my computer think it's running xubuntu?
<Ubugtu> New bug: #65857 in ubuntu-doc "Change Help menu link to help.ubuntu.com" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65857
<mdke> mpt: can you file a bug, it will be easier to remember
<mdke> heya nixternal 
<nixternal> hey mdke
* nixternal grumbles
<nixternal> power station blew up here
<mdke> ouch
<nixternal> 5 hours w/o power, and it seems their little power surge killed my bip server
<mdke> nixternal: I'm off to bed now, if you happen to have some time, we need to add pdf build targets in edgy/kubuntu/Makefile. But having read what you just said, maybe you won't be available
<nixternal> so now I am trying to figure out how to work irc again ;)
<nixternal> i will be able to here in a bit
<nixternal> i can take a look at it
<mdke> if you can't, no worries, we can do it tomorrow
<nixternal> hmm..is there any russian tweaks?
<nixternal> i know there is for the korean pdfs
<mdke> some languages need tweaks yeah. You should just be able to copy the relevant bits from dapper/kubuntu/Makefile and then add any new languages
<mdke> that's what I did for edgy/ubuntu/Makefile
<nixternal> oh ya...no problem then..i will hack that out here in a bit
<mdke> great. Thanks and good night
<nixternal> g'nite
#ubuntu-doc 2006-10-18
<sladen> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveCDCustomizationHowTo needs a redirect, It's fifth for  http://www.google.com/search?q=ubuntu+livecd+customise
<Burgundavia> sladen: fix it
<Burgundavia> it is a wiki
* sladen wonders how comes all these got missed
<Burgundavia> 'cause we haven't thought about that much
<sladen> This probably requires a visit to the 404 logs
<nixternal> <Admiral_Chicago> well i'm going to hang out with gorgeous women
<nixternal> <OmniColos> hope you have your popup blocker installed AC
<nixternal> doh
<nixternal> wrong chan
<Madpilot> nixternal, no, that could have gone into nearly any IRC channel ;)
<nixternal> ya, but i try to stay "somewhat on topic" around here
<sladen> oops.  the wiki returns 200 Success even for non-existant pages
<nixternal> my bip server died..so im back with local irc, and my channel locations are goofy
<sladen> nixternal: /window layout save  or somesuch in irssi
<nixternal> well, with bip, the irc proxy, window layout doesn't work for you, as you get your layout from the server
<nixternal> that way there, no matter how many clients, or which clients i connect with from anywhere in the world, to my server, i get the same setup
<nixternal> but that server went up in a blaze of glory today due to our wonderful comed electric company
<mdke___> morning
<dholbach> hey fellas
<dholbach> seems there are some .omf files missing in ubuntu-docs 6.10.2 - does anybody know something about them?
<nixternal> bug 64245
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 64245 in kubuntu-docs "Kubuntu Desktop Guide - Video/Kino Using Ubuntu Menu Structure" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/64245
<nixternal> i can fix that now, and fix it in everyone of the translation files as well, if that is OK
<dholbach> it seems there are some .omf files missing in ubuntu-docs 6.10.2 - does anybody know something about them?
<pepsiman> there are lots of .omf files in svn.  (I know nothing about them)
<dholbach> pepsiman: aroung 6 are installed in ubuntu-docs 6.10.2
<dholbach> seems they don't get installed
<pepsiman> they all reference the C version of the docs (no idea if that matters)
<nixternal> which docs are missing them?
<pepsiman> nixternal: all
<nixternal> doh
* nixternal checks it out
<nixternal> hmmm...it seems the omf files for the docs are on the svn server
<nixternal> not all docs have a omf file mind you
<pepsiman> the omf files are there in dapper
<nixternal> pepsiman, which guide to be specific?
<pepsiman> I'll nopaste
<pepsiman> http://rafb.net/paste/results/4onsZM11.html
<pepsiman> nixternal: see what I mean?  all guides are missing lots of .omf files
<nixternal> that is because we just put translations into ubuntu
<nixternal> into edgy rather
<nixternal> so, if and when they update the ubuntu-docs package for edgy, and grab the latest svn commits, then all of the omf files will be there
<pepsiman> ubuntu-docs (6.10.2) edgy; urgency=low
<pepsiman> * Adding translations for all documents
<pepsiman> This is from the version I have installed
<pepsiman> -- Matthew East <mdke@ubuntu.com>  Sun, 15 Oct 2006 10:30:00 +0100
<pepsiman> The .omf files were added on Friday the 13th Oct
<pepsiman> There has been an ubuntu-docs package update since then, they are not in it
<nixternal> interesting
<nixternal> there in svn
<nixternal> i wonder if there is reasoning behind it
<pepsiman> the .omf files are in the source of the package
<pepsiman> Only the C .omf files are in debian/install
<nixternal> hmm...well, we will have to take that up with mdke on why he did it like that
<pepsiman> dapper's debian/install has ann the .omf files
<nixternal> im wondering if he just forgot to add them, or if there is some reasoning behind not adding them
<pepsiman> I think he just forgot
<nixternal> ahh. mr. mdke_! ;)  hey, i just created patches for Riddell for the Kubuntu Desktop Guide and Release Notes, to fix 2 bugs (also fixed the .pot files included). I did this at the kubuntu-docs package level. Is it alright if I make the changes and commit them on the server?
<nixternal> i know the desktop guide has been translated, but the fix in it is is <guimenu> fix that should be easy to do for all of them i believe
<mdke_> nixternal: erm!
<mdke_> you can't change a translated string a week before release, the translators don't have time to do that
<nixternal> didn't think so
<nixternal> so leave the edgy branch alone then
<mdke_> if he's uploaded already, it's too late
<nixternal> well, he updated the package
<mdke_> if he's uploaded already, it's too late
<nixternal> actually, the version #'s and urls are translated though are they?
<nixternal> s/are/aren't
<mdke_> entities aren't
<mdke_> but if the pot file changed, that means you must have changed a string
<nixternal> ya, i changed a string...ok, i get it better now
<mdke_> nixternal: so he's uploaded the string change?
<nixternal> mdke_: ok, a little better news, he hasn't uploaded, as he doesn't know if they will get approved
<nixternal> no he hasn't
<nixternal> you want me to pull him in here
<mdke_> if you like
<nixternal> ok, i just did
<nixternal> hrmm..he sure is taking his sweet time ;)
<nixternal> i told him, that with the changes we made, there wouldn't be enough time for translations, and that when translations do come back, they will only break what we just fixed
<mdke_> I don't know about the second part, but the first part is right
<nixternal> well, ya, it wouldn't break what we fixed now that i think about it
<nixternal> since we only fixed the C/
<mdke_> you said you generated a new pot file
<nixternal> in the source package yes
<nixternal> mind you, i didn't make changes to svn stuff
<nixternal> just to the package itself, and would make changes, only if it was OK by you first
<mdke_> so the translators will see the untranslated strings
<nixternal> that is correct
<mdke_> svn doesn't matter a jot, it's the package that matters
<nixternal> oh ok
<nixternal> would you like to take a look at the patch i created against the package?
<mdke_> no, that's ok
<nixternal> hehe
<mdke_> when you upload a package with a pot file, Rosetta imports it automatically
<mdke_> the translators then see any changes in the strings
<nixternal> ahhh
<mdke_> if we don't download anything more from Rosetta, nothing will break, but it's a bit unfair on the translators to change a string then leave it unchanged in other languages 
<nixternal> very true
<mdke_> is everything downloaded from Rosetta?
<nixternal> the desktopguides, server guide, and packaging guide
<mdke_> I did aboutkubuntu
<nixternal> then that as well
<mdke_> releasenotes apparently isn't imported yet
<nixternal> i fixed the makefile for pdfs today...i went to bed early last night, and didn't get a chance
<mdke_> oh cool
<nixternal> kubuntu makefile
<nixternal> it seems you did the ubuntu one already
<nixternal> for desktopguide
<mdke_> I did the Ubuntu one for them all
<nixternal> ok
<mdke_> I'll check the kubuntu stuff now, thanks for doing that
<nixternal> no problem
<mdke_> erm. It's not looking great :)
<nixternal> uh oh
<mdke_> xsltproar --xinarlude
<mdke_> xsltprobn --xinbnlude
<nixternal> arg
<mdke_> etc
<nixternal> ok...i will fix that really quick
<mdke_> you can remove the lulu targets, to simplify things
<nixternal> well now i knod the autoreplace for a selection "C" to "whatever" doesn't work to well
<mdke_> yes, especially if you don't do it case sensitive :)
<nixternal> heh, i bet i had that unchecked ;)
<pepsiman> mdke_: Only the C *.omf files are being installed
<mdke_> pepsiman: thanks
<mdke_> can't believe I missed that
<mdke_> crap, what a PITA
<nixternal> hehe, mdke_ that is why i waited for you to come around, as i was like, it is hard for me to believe he would forget that, maybe there is a reason ;)
<pepsiman> mdke_: also, is this a problem?  http://rafb.net/paste/results/RPYCAU55.html
<nixternal> heh, nice commit message i just left ;)
<mdke_> pepsiman: yes
<mdke_> pepsiman: just packagingguide, or others too?
<pepsiman> desktopguide, packagingguide, serverguide
<mdke_> holy crap.
<pepsiman> aboutubuntu and getting-help are ok
<mdke_> ok. I'll look at that
<Ubugtu> New bug: #66819 in ubuntu-docs "[Edgy]  The documentation appears untranslated" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/66819
<mdke_> heh
<pepsiman> mdke_: re bug 66581 The only word I'd change for an en_GB translation is "customize" => "customise"
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 66581 in ubuntu-docs "en_GB translation of default home page linked to en_US" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/66581
<mdke_> pepsiman: me too.
<nixternal> lol
<pepsiman> nixternal: en_GB is the most complete translation in edgy
<nixternal> no, im laughing at the bug about what you brought up earlier and is currently getting fixed
<pepsiman> ah
<pepsiman> 2 hours 40minutes of translation time left
<nixternal> ya, the whole en and en_GB switching the z's to s's gets me when im typing at times now...i am like, do i use a z or a s ;)
<pepsiman> an s
* mdke_ notes that it doesn't matter
<mdke_> all brits know what customize means, and (all?) americans know what customise means 
<pepsiman> that would apply to all en_GB translations
<nixternal> mdke_: very true
<nixternal> well, (some!) americans ;)
<mdke_> pepsiman: no, I find some americanisms irritating. Some have become more common in en_GB than others
#ubuntu-doc 2006-10-19
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> brown.freenode.net
<tonyyarusso> Is there a template page on the wiki for feature specification outlines?
<jjesse> tonyyarusso: not that i know of
<tonyyarusso> Hrm
<Madpilot> I thought there was?
<tonyyarusso> Wait, there is a god!  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SpecTemplate
<tonyyarusso> :)
<tonyyarusso> Now, oh wiki editing experts, how do I copy a template page and start a new one?  (Or should I just Ctrl-C it - I'm thinking there must be a more intelligent way)
<Burgwork> tonyyarusso: delete the page, and then when you recreate it use the template
<tonyyarusso> Burgwork: Page doesn't exist yet.  I need to make one from scratch, but using a template.  Wondering if there's a "start page like this" functionality from the template or something.
<Burgwork> go to the page
<Burgwork> in the middle, there is a box
<Burgwork> the box has two setions
<Burgwork> in the left section, choose spectempalte
<tonyyarusso> Burgwork: Aaah.  I was just approaching from the wrong direction.
<tonyyarusso> What's BoF agenda mean?
<Burgwork> what is going to be talked about
<Madpilot> Bag of Freaks - slang for a group of hackers
<Madpilot> ;)
* Burgwork smacks Madpilot
<tonyyarusso> So if I have no idea what to put, leave it blank and wait for a "Freak" to fill it in?
<Madpilot> hey! OK, it's actually Birds Of a Feather, which is nearly as strange as Bag o' Freaks 
<Burgwork> tonyyarusso: leave it blank
<tonyyarusso> 'k
<nixternal> birds of a feather, flock together, hack together, sle......
<nixternal> i will stop there
<tonyyarusso> Anyone want to proofread my spec writeup and give feedback?
<tonyyarusso> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GaimCalendarAutoAways
<tonyyarusso> (And is this ready to propose for UDS-mtv in launchpad now, or does that sort of thing come later?)
<tonyyarusso> (I'm also not sure whether I should be set as the drafter or not, but that's probably moving into -devel territory, if I'm not already long there)
<tonyyarusso> I'm guessing the silence is a hint I'm in the wrong spot at this point, /me takes deep breath and steps into -devel for first time...!
<Madpilot> tonyyarusso, sounds like something the Telepathy project is doing
<tonyyarusso> Madpilot: Really?  Have a link to more info on that so I can follow up?
<Madpilot> not offhand - it's a gnome project, I think. Burgwork knows more about it.
<Burgwork> tonyyarusso: gaim is likely going away for fiesty
<tonyyarusso> Burgwork: Never heard of it...
<Burgwork> tonyyarusso: telepathy is to communication like gstreamer is to media
* tonyyarusso starts googling
<Madpilot> Burgwork, I won't especially miss gaim, but what's the replacement going to be?
<Burgwork> Madpilot: likely gossip
<Madpilot> is gossip multi-protocol like gaim, or just jabber?
<Burgwork> that is what telepathy does
<Burgwork> it solves teh multiprotocol stuff
<Burgwork> if you listened to my analogoy
<Madpilot> ah, OK. cool
<tonyyarusso> Burgwork: Should I mention my writeup to the telepathy/gossip people?
<Burgwork> tonyyarusso: that is part of telepathy is trying to do
<Burgwork> tonyyarusso: so remove the gaim and tbird stuff
<Burgwork> tonyyarusso: add evo and telepathy
<tonyyarusso> Burgwork: Just under dependencies you mean/
<tonyyarusso> ?
<Burgwork> yep
<tonyyarusso> Okay.
<Burgwork> specs shoudl reallly only care about packages we install by default
<Burgwork> everything else is fluffy
<tonyyarusso> True enough.
<tonyyarusso> Is there a way to link to packages in launchpad, or just on the wiki?
<carlos> hi
<carlos> is there any ubuntu-doc maintainer around?
<tonyyarusso> I'm mostly an observer of this group so far, and the ones I know that are active it's 04:30 for.  Maybe some Europeans are around though....
<pepsiman> carlos: what's the problem with ubuntu-doc this time?
<carlos> pepsiman: it's not a problem
<carlos> we got a bunch of .pot files to import 
<carlos> https://launchpad.net/rosetta/imports/+index?target=distros&status=NEEDS_REVIEW&type=pot
<carlos> and I need to know whether we should import all them or not
<pepsiman> I think one string was changed, and there's no point importing
<pepsiman> doc translation freeze was last week anyway
<carlos> pepsiman: well, but we got those templates, should I ignore them?
<carlos> it's new documentation...
<pepsiman> carlos: this is all I know: http://rafb.net/paste/results/jmLsH385.html
<carlos> pepsiman: ok, thanks
<mdz> greetings
<mdz> I mailed -doc yesterday regarding the release notes; I know it's late (and we've made arrangements to do better next time) but we could use a hand in preparing them
<mdke_> nixternal: I take it Riddell did the upload yesterday
<nixternal> i don't know if he did or not
<mdke_> looks like Rosetta got some new translation templates
<nixternal> i didn't see it in the commit list
<nixternal> ahhh
<nixternal> let me find out
<mdke_> maybe was from something else
<mdke_> might have been a previous upload
<nixternal> i seen that email as well
<nixternal> i just asked Riddell if he committed it
<nixternal> i have been up to my neck in school work today
<mdke_> no worries
<pepsiman> mdke_: the new templates are at "needs review" https://launchpad.net/rosetta/imports/+index?target=distros&status=NEEDS_REVIEW&type=pot  carlos was in here wondering if you wanted them to be imported
<mdke_> pepsiman: I saw the scrollback yeah. I'll need to catch him and talk about that. I've pinged jordi
<nixternal> 14:16:44]  <Riddell> nixternal: no, I don't think it's allowed
<nixternal> mdke_: ^^
<mdke_> ah.
<jenda> mdke_: what's wrong with doc.ubuntu.com?
<mdke_> jenda: dunno, what's wrong with it?
<mdke_> oh, haha
<jenda> hehe...
<jenda> I get the italian forum there...
<mdke_> that cheeky webmaster
#ubuntu-doc 2006-10-20
<Ubugtu> New bug: #67036 in Ubuntu "Getting Started - a gripe" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/67036
<nixternal> hey
<nixternal> that bug 67036
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 67036 in Ubuntu "Getting Started - a gripe" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/67036
<nixternal> does this guy want us to write documentation that will show him how to burn an iso?
<stelis> I love these bots
<nixternal> are you telling me he is a windows user, and has never downloaded software illegally?
<stelis> Yes
<nixternal> wow
<stelis> I've seen lots of requests like this
<stelis> In Linux you double-click the ISO and the right thing happens
<stelis> Windows folks may have one of several applications 
<stelis> I don't think that Windows does anything with ISOs by default
<stelis> And many people don't know what to do with them
<nixternal> ya, xp knows what to do
<nixternal> and if you have a cd burner, and the software installed, it will know what to do as well
<nixternal> i think maybe we should explain what an ISO is i guess in documentation
<stelis> I'm sure somebody addressed this complaint in Fedora
<stelis> I'll have a lot what was done
<stelis> "look"
<stelis> Overstimulated - Too many windows
<stelis> Here we go: http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/install-guide/fc6/en/ch-preparing-media.html
<stelis> But yeah, "what do I with these files" is a FAQ
<jjesse> also referf him to the switching to windows guide
<jjesse> i'm working on updating that bug :)
<stelis> "Switching *To* Windows"? :)
<jjesse> switching from windows
<jjesse> ask nixternal i always get that switched around
<stelis> Sorry, couldn't resist
<jjesse> brb coffee break
<jjesse> np stelis
<jjesse> btw nice to meet you stelis
<stelis> Cheers
<nixternal> i rejected that bad mammajamma with a nice little, borderline CoC, statement
<nixternal> arg jjesse
<nixternal> haha
<nixternal> i just applied my 2 cents to the bug
<nixternal> fix it, but i also rejected it
<stelis> That's a solid reply - congrats
<nixternal> hrmm
<nixternal> actually...checkt his
<nixternal> this
<stelis> A lot of people would have basically said "shouty. idiot"
<nixternal> [18:55:37]  <nixternal> that guy says we should have a "hand holding document to help windows users create bootable cds from the iso files they download"
<nixternal> after i said that, i thought for a second...we could use something that explains the iso and what options someone has
<nixternal> not so much hand holding, but finger pointing, to google, nero, and what other garbage is out there
<stelis> A FAQ item might cover it
<stelis> Rather than stuffing it into  the main documentation
<stelis> I would have offered some text, but...
<stelis> My Windows installation went away
<stelis> I've never gotten round to building another VM for it
<nixternal> well, it can go in the install guide
<stelis> True
<stelis> I'm starting think that the people most in need of help are the least likely to read long docs
<stelis> :(
<nixternal> our docs are actually read quite a bit
<nixternal> more than i ever imagined
<bimberi> Discussing Bug 67036?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 67036 in ubuntu-doc "Getting Started - a gripe" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/67036
<nixternal> once you do translations, you will see just how much they are read..because as soon as 1 translation is bonkers, you will get days worth of emails about it
<nixternal> ya bimberi
<bimberi> nixternal: perhaps the "Burning the ISO" section could be before the mirror lists on http://www.ubuntu.com/download
<stelis> I was going to say: it's the bugs that cause people to speak up
<nixternal> could be, or in teh installation manual...something for mdke to work out or burg
<stelis> From far-away places...
<nixternal> oh well, i need some food..bbiaf
<stelis> ta-rah
<bimberi> hm.  It's my (probably flawed) thoughts on the usability.  User goes to ubuntu.com, clicks on download, then clicks on their country but doesn't realise there's more on that download page
<bimberi> f = flash? :)
<stelis> You're ahead of me
<stelis> I hadn't clocked that
<bimberi> just not sure what the "f" in "bbiaf" was
<stelis> I think that are right about the page
<stelis> There are too many things on it really
<stelis> The Mozilla site has some code that automatically guesses the best link to present
<bimberi> Having "Ordering Pressed CDs" at the bottom is OK because there are links to "ShipIT - Free CDs" on the top right anyway
<stelis> I agree
<bimberi> And "Source Code" is about GPL compliance and not of that much interest to the masses - so fine at the bottom as well
<stelis> Perhaps list a series of stps at the top of the page
<stelis> "steps"
<stelis> IIRC , www.opensuse.org has nice layout for this
<stelis> 1) choose a download server, 2) find the right ISO etc. 
* bimberi looks (on his v e r y  s l o w dialup link :| )
<stelis> Don't work about it, it's not how a remember it
<stelis> They've got a page with lots of words on it now
<stelis> If you like, I'll try to write up something and pastebin it for you
<bimberi> s'ok thanks :)  I've had a look
<stelis> It used to have four steps in big letters
<bimberi> yes, lots of words ... in some ways a bit too far the other way - annoying for those who "just want to get to the ISOs"
<stelis> As I say, it's completely different from what I remembered
<stelis> It used to be a really nice layout
<stelis> :(
<bimberi> yes, what you were describing sounded good
<nixternal> hey
<nixternal> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BurningIsoHowto
<nixternal> that kills that bug
<Burgundavia> nixternal: that has existed for a long time
<jsgotangco> hey
<Burgundavia> I am not at home, sadly
<Burgundavia> still at work
<nixternal> eww
<nixternal> hiya jsgotangco!
<jsgotangco> how's it going mr. chicago
<nixternal> it be goin' lil by lil
<nixternal> doing homework now
<nixternal> yay
<jsgotangco> i have to prepare for work
<jsgotangco> brb
<nixternal> svn commit -m "The Feisty Fawn - 7.04 is in the repos - sorry, I was iching to do this one ;)"
<nixternal> Sending        libs/global.ent
<nixternal> there we go ;)
<nixternal> yes, i know i spelt itching wrong
<nixternal> btw, what is up with all the different "release notes" i seen in mailing lists today?
* bimberi glares at his email forwarding
<bimberi> I've only just received the email from Tollef Hog Feen regarding proofing the RC Announcement
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> just a tad late
<bimberi> *Fog Heen
<bimberi> there's goes my proofreading credentials right there
<mdke_> nixternal: /win 11
<mdke_> damn, sorry
* mdke_ rubs open his eyes
<nixternal> lol
<Kamping_Kaiser> why does the Makefile have "manual_release=etch" - why etch basicly?
<tonyyarusso> It seems that the search functions on h.u.c and w.u.c don't cross over between the two.
<stelis> Burgundavia: I've written up that LDAP spec
<ToHellWithGA> http://694argonne.dyndns.org/Repartitioning.html
<ToHellWithGA> i'm trying to work on a guide that explains to new users how to move something under / onto its own partition and mount it without wiping the data.
<ToHellWithGA> if anybody would read over that page and send me suggestions on modifications using the email address provided i would appreciate it.
<ToHellWithGA> http://694argonne.dyndns.org.nyud.net:8080/Repartitioning.html as well since my computer may be resetting a few times soon
<Ubugtu> New bug: #67207 in ubuntu-docs "I had to kill postinst script of 6.10.2 to upgrade to 6.10.3" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/67207
<pepsiman> I'm fixing the grammar in the contribute doc
<pepsiman> Can someone take a look at this patch to the contribute doc please  http://rafb.net/paste/results/VWOXNm72.html
<mdke_> pepsiman: can you send it to the ML, the maintainers will take a look
<pepsiman> mdke_: ok.  the doc seems incomplete, has broken URLs, factual errors, grammar errors
<mdke_> oh dear
<pepsiman> the patch doesn't fix everything, just points them out
#ubuntu-doc 2006-10-21
<Ubugtu> New bug: #66934 in ubuntu-docs (main) "'Contribute to Ubuntu' Yelp Page Mistake" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/66934
<Ubugtu> New bug: #67170 in ubuntu-docs (main) "Link to help.ubuntu.com is treated like a file download" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/67170
<Kamping_Kaiser> is the SVN repo browsable publicly or do i need to download it?
<Kamping_Kaiser> i'm after a canonical referenceable hardware spec for dapper
<Burgundavia> Kamping_Kaiser: afaik, there is no web access
<Kamping_Kaiser> drat.
<Kamping_Kaiser> double drat - dont even have SVN installed atm
<FireRabbit> hmm... System > Help > Ubuntu Book Excerpt .. broken link
<FireRabbit> should i file a bug about this?
<Burgundavia> FireRabbit: bug mdke_
<FireRabbit> mdke_: *bug*
<mdke_> FireRabbit: we have a bug open about it, don't worry
<pepsiman> Kamping_Kaiser: from the topic: https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos
<FireRabbit> mdke_: ok, i saw a similar bug, but it didnt look like the same issue.
<mdke_> FireRabbit: we haven't uploaded the website yet for 6.10. That's why there is a broken link
<FireRabbit> okay, thats what i figured, just wanted to be sure
<FireRabbit> thx
<mdke_> No worries. I expect we'll have a few more bugs about it
<FireRabbit> a 'coming soon' page might put people at ease if that were to become a problem.
<mdke_> indeed. we don't have access to the website, I might ask the webmaster
<Kamping_Kaiser> eek. i'm 700 commits out of date. i dont think i'll be updating any time soon :|
<Kamping_Kaiser> pepsiman, thanks for the url
* Kamping_Kaiser needs to check topics for updates more
<PriceChild> hi is mdke in?
<mdke_> PriceChild: hi
<mdke_> just got in, coincidentally
<PriceChild> cool :)
<mdke_> not for long tho, be quick!
<PriceChild> could i takl to you about my howto at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BerylOnEdgy please?
* jenda suggests PM
<PriceChild> he he....
<mdke_> sure. do it here, that's what this channel is for
<FireRabbit> huh,  well, I just sent an email to the mailing list about that BerylOnEdgy page, i wonder if i was replying to that guy
<FireRabbit> (hasnt shown up on the arcives yet, weird)
<fdoving> nixternal: hi, are you working on kubuntu-docs? i was just reading through the release notes, and found a few small things. I have them documented at http://ubuntu.lnix.net/misc/release_notes.txt if you're interessted
<fdoving> (and if i'm not too late)
#ubuntu-doc 2006-10-22
<nixternal> fdoving: the spelling mistakes weren't noted, good heads up, we tried to fix the 3.5.4 but it was shot down
<nixternal> kind of stinks, that we cannot touch it, due to translations
<glatzor> ping mdke_
<Madpilot> glatzor, he's been idle 12hr31min...
<Madpilot> @now London
<Ubugtu> Current time in Europe/London: October 22 2006, 09:16:59
<Madpilot> sleeping in, I bet :)
<glatzor> Madpilot: ok. The German translation of the Firefox start page is in a quiet bad state. The html file has to be translated manually?
<Madpilot> glatzor, no idea, I don't know much about translations. Wait for Matt, or ask on the -doc or -translators lists
<Kamping_Kaiser> yay, found it
<Kamping_Kaiser> well. most of it. could the release notes for edgy give minimum CPU specs? dappers RN's dont do it
<Kamping_Kaiser> is there an existing 'the menus in ubuntu are layed out liek this' document around? could i perhaps grep it out of some config file?
<mhb> hello
<mhb> who is in charge of the press release about Edgy Eft? You?
<mhb> or marketing or Canonical?
<Burgundavia> mhb: canonical
<mhb> Burgundavia: do you know if I can contact someone working on that through IRC?
<Burgundavia> mhb: the person doing it is probably not on irc
<Burgundavia> it will either be malcolm, chris or christina
<mhb> Burgundavia: I'd like to know if they couldn't share with the loco teams a day or so earlier so we can do a press release in our languages
<Burgundavia> mhb: ping jono, he is the best bet
<mhb> Burgundavia: is he on IRC?
<Burgundavia> yes
<mhb> cool
<mhb> thanks
<mhb> I'll ask him when he's here, thanks for the information.
<mhb> bye!
#ubuntu-doc 2007-10-15
<ubotu> New bug: #152778 in ubuntu-docs (main) "basic commands has some minor errors and inconsistancies (dup-of: 138891)" [Low,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/152778
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-doc.log
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-doc.log
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-doc.log
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-doc.log
<SlimG3> mdke: would be nice to have a multilanguage wiki at ubuntu.com, ex.: <language code>.help.ubuntu.com
<mdke> SlimG3: well, the other ubuntu sites aren't localised either, I definitely think it's better to have all localised material at the same place; such as the local team sites
#ubuntu-doc 2007-10-18
<oldmanstan2> weechat is nifty
<chuy_max> I found a way to use elo touch screen monitors using intellitouch, documentation is poor, so I want to contribute, where should I do this?
<chuy_max> mmm, I guess it is the wiki
<mpt> chuy_max, right, <https://help.ubuntu.com/community>
<mpt> and in particular <https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InputDevices>
<chuy_max> uhm
<chuy_max> page keeps loading
<chuy_max> I logged in, and typed: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EloIntelliTouch
<chuy_max> I'm gonna register at forum and write a tutorial, I'm having trouble with wiki, I hope someone copies it to wiki later
<Madpilot> chuy_max, mention in your tutorial that you'd like it copied to help.u.c/community, someone should be able to give you a hand with copying it over
<chuy_max> Madpilot, o_O?, why can't everybody post threads, it says that my thread has to be approved by a moderator.
<Madpilot> which forum?
<chuy_max> and also, do you want to copy my tutorial to wiki ?
<chuy_max> Madpilot, tutorials
<chuy_max> it is called Elo Touch Screen Intelli Touch (USB)
<Madpilot> I think the tut forum is moderated.
<chuy_max> Madpilot, how do I found my tuto was approved/rejected?, I'm going through the control panel and I don't see any suscribed threads or anything.
<chuy_max> :S
<Madpilot> I can't remember where ubuntuforums hides the Subscription stuff - they rearrange everything a couple of times a year
<ubotu> New bug: #153937 in ubuntu-doc "Packaging guide; Prerequisites missing closing parentheses." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/153937
<ubotu> New bug: #153940 in ubuntu-doc "Packaging guide; Prerequisites missing closing parentheses." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/153940
<ubotu> New bug: #153939 in ubuntu-doc "Packaging guide; Prerequisites missing closing parentheses." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/153939
 * mdke hellos
<mdke> happy 7.10
#ubuntu-doc 2007-10-19
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: jjesse * r4478 xubuntu/internet/C/internet.xml:
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: fixing bug 152627
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: wasn't paying attention when i was greping
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 152627 in xubuntu-docs "Typo error in a string" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/152627
<jjesse> wahoo rememberd svn password
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: jjesse * r4479 generic/packagingguide/C/introduction.xml:
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: fixing bug 153939 in trunk
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: thanks for reporting this bug
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 153939 in ubuntu-doc "Packaging guide; Prerequisites missing closing parentheses." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/153939
<howfixbadubuntu> howfixbadubuntu?
<Spads> Is there going to be an update to http://help.ubuntu.com now that gutsy is released?
<mdke> Spads: I suppose so
#ubuntu-doc 2007-10-20
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke * r4480 ubuntu/windows/C/glossary.xml: fix from gutsy branch
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke gutsy * r4481 /ubuntu/ (Makefile broken_translations): tweaks
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke gutsy * r4482 / (generic/hack.sh ubuntu/hack.sh): hacks to fix naming conventions of po files
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke feisty * r4483 / (3 files in 3 dirs): hack.sh, as with gutsy
<ubotu> New bug: #155050 in ubuntu-doc "FeistyUpgrades wiki link goes to wrong page" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/155050
#ubuntu-doc 2007-10-21
<chuy_max> hi, is this the right place to talk about the forum?
<chuy_max> are here some forum moderators?
<Timemaster> Hello
<neopipil> hi
<mdke> man I'm going to have a lot of lp email after this
 * mdke has a stab at bzr-svn
<jjesse> so should i create a branch and upload it to the ubuntu-core team or whatever it is?
<mdke> jjesse: the idea is to keep the existing workflow, so we have one branch for each package which the whole team contributes to (rather than individuals creating their own branches)
<jjesse> mdke: oh ok, i'll delete my branch then
<mdke> jjesse: what branch did you create?
<jjesse> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~jjesse/ubuntu-doc/ubuntu-docs-proposed
<jjesse> haven't uploaded anything to it yet
<mdke> what's it for?
<jjesse> just a working copy of svn
<mdke> I don't get it
<jjesse> just ignore
<mdke> :)
<jjesse> is code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-doc going to be moved to something else?  trunk has been updated for 48 weeks
<mdke> yes
<jjesse> ok, looking forward to
<jjesse> sorry took some drugs ealrlier and i think they are having the needed affect
<mdke> I won't ask
<jjesse> cold medicene :)
<ubotu> New bug: #155538 in ubuntu-doc "Ubuntu 7.10 released, but help not online" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/155538
#ubuntu-doc 2008-10-13
<mdke> kirkland: around?
<kirkland> mdke: for a few minutes
<mdke> kirkland: ah, ok. Another time then :)
<kirkland> mdke: i was just looking at the search stuff
<kirkland> mdke: i have about 15 or so
<mdke> ah, that will be enough
<kirkland> mdke: then i have to bring the dog to the vet ;-)
<mdke> :(
<mdke> i was going to ask about how to plug the search into a page so that maybe I can work at building it into the themes for help.u.c
<mdke> I tried building it into the Moin theme, but didn't get that far
<kirkland> mdke: ah, sure, it's pretty straightforward
<mdke> I got it into the page alright, just didn't understand how to generate the results
<kirkland> mdke: so where do you want the results?
<kirkland> mdke: on a special "search results" page?
<mdke> I guess so, what are the alternatives
<mdke> ?
<kirkland> http://people.ubuntu.com/~kirkland/search.html
<kirkland> mdke: that's all on the same page
<kirkland> mdke: search for a term, and you'll just see the results inserted into the page
<kirkland> mdke: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/
<kirkland> mdke: that one has the search box in the header, and the result return on a separate search page
<mdke> that's the one we want
<kirkland> mdke: (use the text search)
<kirkland> mdke: okay....
<kirkland> mdke: see the code for the ubuntu-manpage-repository
<kirkland> mdke: bzr branch lp:ubuntu-manpage-repository
<mdke> ok
<kirkland> mdke: so you have the search box already in the header?
<kirkland> mdke: or do i need to show you how to do that?
<kirkland> mdke: what will be the page where search results will appear?
<kirkland> mdke: it can be simple html
<mdke> yes, I have that
<kirkland> mdke: http://help.ubuntu.com/search.html ?
<mdke> I guess we need to create a page on help.ubuntu.com for all search results
<mdke> exactly
<kirkland> mdke: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/57136/
<kirkland> mdke: that's what goes in the header
<kirkland> note the form action= bit
<mdke> yeah, that's the thing I have
<kirkland> mdke: modify that if you decide on a different destination for the search results
<mdke> plus some javascript
<mdke> i mean, some more javascript
<kirkland> mdke: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/57138/
<mdke> I was trying to figure out how to narrow the search bar a bit, but I think I can just checkout the source of manpages.ubuntu.com and figure it out
<kirkland> mdke: put that where you want the results
<mdke> ahh.
<kirkland> mdke: just change size="22" in the text box input element
<mdke> magnificent
<mdke> ok, thanks a bunch
<kirkland> mdke: all the code for managing the indexed sites, priorities, etc. is hosted on the google CSE site
<kirkland> mdke: i tried to set it up for us to share access, but i'm not sure we ever got that working properly
<mdke> yes, I suspect that that bit will have to be left to you :)
<kirkland> mdke: i can try to transfer it to you, or you can trust me to it ;-)
<mdke> as long as you're willing, then I'm more than happy :)
<kirkland> mdke: nice, i think we're good then
<mdke> great, thanks a lot
<mdke> good luck with the dog, hope all goes well
<kirkland> mdke: np.  is it working?
<mdke> I'll give it a shot later...
<kirkland> mdke: thanks, he has a cut on the pad of his foot that hasn't healed in a couple of weeks
<kirkland> k
<mdke> kirkland: for later - http://doc.ubuntu.com/~mdke/search.html - getting there...
#ubuntu-doc 2008-10-17
 * perlluver is away: perlluver
<jdwatson> Busy place...
#ubuntu-doc 2008-10-18
<jioyo> is   anlyone here
<charlie-tca> !anyone
<charlie-tca> jioyo: please ask your question. It may take a while, but someone should answer
<mdke> we should keep a record of who waits the shortest time before disappearing. 1 minute and 9 seconds is good, but not good enough for the title I don't think
<charlie-tca> Yea, seems right
<sommer> mdke: any issue with me fixing bug #285484
<sommer> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-docs/+bug/285484
<mdke> sommer: best not to touch strings at this stage, it's very late indeed now
<sommer> doh, okay
#ubuntu-doc 2008-10-19
<gTea> I'm looking to get involved, at the very least to report misspellings and such that I come across. For instance, I see a misspelling in the "Ubuntu Forum Rules" at http://ubuntuforums.org/register.php. Would I report this at the "Bugs in Ubuntu Documentation" page found here: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-doc/+bugs ?
<gTea> Furthermore, is this sort of trivial contribution even demanded?
<gTea> I now see that the "Ubuntu Forum Rules" were last updated over two years ago. If my previous question came off as picky, it wasn't intended to be. It was just an illustration to help clarify my question =).
<gTea> 'previous question' == 'previous example'
<mdke> gTea: the forum isn't part of the documentation team's work, you should report the issue directly to the forum team. I'm not sure how to do that but there should be a link somewhere on the forum
<mdke> gTea: but if you come across any misspellings in Ubuntu documentation, feel free to report bugs in launchpad, certainly
<Gwaihir> mdke: when are you going to export documentation po files?
<mdke> Gwaihir: I had said 12:00 GTC, I haven't done it yet
<mdke> Gwaihir: it will be 14:00 italian time, I guess
<Gwaihir> ok... so it gives me a little more time...
<mdke> Gwaihir: by the way, interested in your thoughts on the mail about dialects I just sent to -translators and consiglio@
<mdke> Gwaihir: maybe later though :)
<Gwaihir> mdke: sure... I will answer... but lately :)
<mdke> thanks
<technomensch> anyone awake in here?
<crimsun> somewhat
 * mdke is watching translations build
<technomensch> I'm part of the docs team, but I'm kinda stuck with my googlefu and can't grab anyone from beginners-help......
<technomensch> I'm trying to figure out a way to run a "checkdisk" from a gutsy livecd on an xp partition that won't mount
<technomensch> without an xp cd at my current location
<mdke> technomensch: can only suggest #ubuntu
<mdke> no idea otherwise
<technomensch> yea, I'm floating between the different rooms.  all the docs seem to imply I need the cd.
<charlie-tca> technomensch: what about the ubuntu Rescue remix cd?
<technomensch> huh?
<technomensch> you've peaked my curiosity
<charlie-tca> It's supposed to help with that type thing
<charlie-tca> http://ubuntu-rescue-remix.org/About
<charlie-tca> I haven't used it, but it may help?
#ubuntu-doc 2009-10-12
<j1mc> hi all
<Zachk18> j1mc, velcome
<j1mc> hi Zachk18
<Rocket2DMn> wb jim
<j1mc> hi Rocket2DMn
<jjesse> evening
<j1mc> hey jjesse
<j1mc> jjesse: you working on kubuntu docs?
<jjesse> not much this time around unfortanetly
<j1mc> ah, i just saw your 'dent' about kubuntu docs... the netbook remix
<jjesse> yeah i don't think there are any docs on how to use the plasma-netbook interface
<jjesse> might just be a blog post to start out and then move into actual documentation
<kaushal> hi
<kaushal> I have questions regarding https://help.ubuntu.com/8.10/serverguide/C/samba-ldap.html
<kaushal> can i ask it here ?
<kaushal> hi
<kaushal> Can i seek help here for
<kaushal> https://help.ubuntu.com/8.10/serverguide/C/samba-ldap.html
<kaushal> ?
<starcraftman> problem?
<kaushal> yeah sure
<kaushal> where do i need to run smbldap-populate ?
<kaushal> is it on ldap server or samba server ?
<kaushal> starcraftman: you around ?
<starcraftman> ah, sorry, was distracted.
<starcraftman> oh I thought this was a documentation error?
<starcraftman> On guide, all the boxes are simply meant to be copy and pasted. On wiki its indicating to execute sudo smbldap-populate in whatever terminal your using.
<starcraftman> I'm not a large server admin, so can't help ya beyond basics kaushal, for more advanced help please see #ubuntu-beginners-help or #ubuntu (I recommend first).
<starcraftman> kaushal: also, fyi, this channel for doc editing not really support questions.
<kaushal> ok
#ubuntu-doc 2009-10-13
<Rocket2DMn> hey dsas , you have a minute?
<dsas> Rocket2DMn, sure
<Rocket2DMn> cool, I want to try to commit a fix to bug 442097 , I just had to make a couple of tweaks to shane's patch
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 442097 in ubuntu-docs "IE6 in Windows document" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/442097
<Rocket2DMn> but i havent tried comitting before
<dsas> ok
<Rocket2DMn> let me put together the command and ill run it by you
<Rocket2DMn> dsas, how is this:
<Rocket2DMn> bzr commit -m "Add support for IE7 and IE8 - Shane Fagan, LP: #442097" --fixes lp:442097
<dsas> Rocket2DMn, As long as your branch is "bound" that is fine.
<dsas> possibly want to add a little more detail about what you're adding support to
<Rocket2DMn> yeah, i have never kept it any other way, i have it "bzr bind lp:ubuntu-docs"
<Rocket2DMn> sure, I'll add to the description, but is the command syntax what i should be using?
<dsas> Yeah the syntax is perfect
<Rocket2DMn> bzr commit -m "Add support for for exporting bookmarks in IE7 and IE8 - Shane Fagan, LP: #442097" --fixes lp:442097
<dsas> looks good to me
<Rocket2DMn> cool, thanks for the help
<Rocket2DMn> the --fixes is what allows the bug to be autoupdated for Fix Released right?
<dsas> It links the development branch to the bug
<dsas> I'm not sure that it marks the bug as fix-released on upload. I think that's done by the package changelog
<Rocket2DMn> oh ok, so the branch gets linked to the bug automatically then?
<dsas> yep
<j1mc> hi all
<Rocket2DMn> groovy
<dsas> hi j1mc
<Rocket2DMn> hey j1mc
<j1mc> hi dsas and Rocket2DMn
<Rocket2DMn> ok, here goes nothing
<dsas> Rocket2DMn, fingers crossed
<j1mc> what are you attempting to do?
<Rocket2DMn> aw crap, something else got stuck in there
<Rocket2DMn> /headdesk
<dsas> Rocket2DMn, automatically changing the status to Fix Committed is something that LP will implement in future.
<dsas> http://doc.bazaar-vcs.org/latest/en/tutorials/using_bazaar_with_launchpad.html#changing-the-state-in-launchpad-while-committing-in-bazaar
<Rocket2DMn> dsas, a small edit to gnome-menus-C.ent got stuck in there
<Rocket2DMn> should i roll back?
<Rocket2DMn> dsas, check the emai lthat just went out for it
<Rocket2DMn> dsas, the extra piece was for bug 442417
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 442417 in ubuntu-docs ""Text Editor" changed to "gedit Text Editor" in Applications->Accessories" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/442417
<Rocket2DMn> i didnt mean to commit that one though
<dsas> Rocket2DMn, bzr uncommit to revert the last commit
<Rocket2DMn> dsas, ok, so run uncommit, then re-apply just the patch i wanted and try again?
<dsas> Rocket2DMn, yes
<Rocket2DMn> ok, take 2
<Rocket2DMn> ok, that was a bit of a rough start, but i think we got it this time.  Thanks again for the help dsas
<jjesse> evening
<dsas> Rocket2DMn, sweet, no problems.
<dsas> I made some kind of mess of the history with my first commit :)
<dsas> evening jjesse
<Rocket2DMn> dsas, glad to know i'm not the only one.  besides, what's the fun in doing it right the first time anyway
<jjesse> evening dsas
<dsas> Rocket2DMn, I always either run bzr st before committing or commit without the -m flag, so you see which files will be committed while writing your commit message
<dsas> Rocket2DMn, it's a VCS it's pretty tricky to break it completely anyway :)
<j1mc> hi jjesse
<Rocket2DMn> i've seen it done dsas :)
<jjesse> hello jjesse
<jjesse> doh
<jjesse> hello j1mc
<jjesse> :)
<j1mc> :)
<Rocket2DMn> thanks for the tip dsas , ill use thatin the future
<dsas> night all
<trijntje> Is the kubuntu documentation still maintained?
<lukjad007> trijntje It should be
<trijntje> lukjad007, i'm translating it, but it looks like a lot of things are out of date. Kstart instead of Kickoff applicationstarter, that sort of thing
<lukjad007> trijntje Hmm. Well perhaps it's because there are fewer KDE users than GNOME users currently
<trijntje> lukjad007, I guess, thats why I was asking. I guess ill just file a bugreport
<lukjad007> trijntje Just flag it as outdated
<trijntje> lukjad007, can you explain how I do that? I was planning to file a bug against kubuntu-docs
<lukjad007> trijntje Can I have a link to the page?
<trijntje> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/kubuntu-docs/+pots/basic-concepts/nl/+translate?show=untranslated&start=30&field.alternative_language-empty-marker=1
<trijntje> thats the translation template, I can never find my way around in launchpad...
<lukjad007> trijntje Is this in the wiki, or launchpad?
<lukjad007> If it's the wiki: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Tag
<trijntje> lukjad007, no, its the native kubuntu documentation, no network needed
<lukjad007> trijntje Oh, sorry then. I guess a bug report is due :)
<trijntje> lukjad007, no problem, I should have said it was the offline documentation. Thanks for your help
<lukjad007> :)
#ubuntu-doc 2009-10-14
<mdke> morning all
<jbicha> there are 2 separate wikis right? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ is the first not used as much these days?
<starcraft-ntbk> other way jbicha, community is the main documatation storage with wiki.ubuntu being a dumping ground.
<starcraft-ntbk> jbicha: new and looking to get into docs?
<jbicha> I think that's confusing
<jbicha> because a lot of the good stuff is in the wiki.ubuntu.com one
<starcraft-ntbk> jbicha: somewhat. It's the system we have though.
<jbicha> I'm wanting to help edubuntu
<starcraft-ntbk> hmmm. dunno much about edubuntu, I guess they fall under doc team as well
<jbicha> for instance, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam is the official wiki page for you guys, right?
<starcraft-ntbk> yup, that's our page. Wiki.ubuntu serves as a team organization place as one of its roles.
<jbicha> I'm so used to mediawiki, moinmoin or whatever is a bit confusing for me, is there a good page I can learn what's going on
<jbicha> is there a way I can view all edits by one person?
<starcraft-ntbk> uh, moment, i'll get the guide
<starcraft-ntbk> jbicha: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WikiGuide
<starcraft-ntbk> most information there, formatting and conventions
<starcraft-ntbk> jbicha: not familiar enough with edubuntu wiki to give ya specific advice on that, mostly just an ubuntu worker
<stlsaint> lo starcraft-ntbk
<starcraft-ntbk> hi stlsaint
<stlsaint> lo all
<jbicha> wiki.ubuntu.com is down for me
<jbicha> and it's back
<starcraft-ntbk> lo again jbicha
<starcraft-ntbk> droppy wireless.
<LaserJock> do the Category pages on wiki.ubuntu.com show the full contents of the categories?
<LaserJock> it seems like I'm not getting all the pages
#ubuntu-doc 2009-10-15
<j1mc> http://www.infomanagementcenter.com/enewsletter/2009/200908/third.htm
<j1mc> I thought this was a neat article on doc structure
#ubuntu-doc 2009-10-16
<mdke> adiroiban: I still can't download all templates for a package in Launchpad :( Can you download the translations for gnome-user-docs and ubuntu-docs for me in karmic and email me the url? I plan to have them all uploaded by the end of the weekend
<mdke> adiroiban: nevermind dpm is taking care of it
#ubuntu-doc 2009-10-17
<mdke> morning all
<j1mc> hello doc-people
<mdke> hiya j1mc
<j1mc> hi mdke
<j1mc> mdke: had you heard anything about the doc utility put together by canonical?  that came as a surprise to me.
<mdke> j1mc: you mean kyle's project?
<j1mc> in looking at the wiki and launchpad history, it seems like something that has come together recently.
<j1mc> yes
<mdke> not much, only what he has posted to the list
<j1mc> right
<mdke> i really think that he needs to work closely to shaunm, because it overlaps very heavily with gnome-doc-utils from what I can see in terms of features
<Rocket2DMn> hey guys, just FYI the community docs are inaccessible
<Rocket2DMn> you may have already known that
<mdke> hmm?
<Rocket2DMn> ERROR - The requested URL could not be retrieved
<mdke> ouch
<Rocket2DMn> are you able to access?
<mdke> nope, I'll report
<j1mc> Rocket2DMn: no
<Rocket2DMn> ok, so we're not (completely) crazy
<Rocket2DMn> thanks mdke
<Rocket2DMn> ah, so the community doc server (or its proxy) is called yangmei
<j1mc> thanks to you, too, connor
<mdke> looks like a proxy issue yeah
<Rocket2DMn> the forums have had problems in the past with their proxy
<Rocket2DMn> not recently though
<Rocket2DMn> j1mc, i didnt pick up on it, my buddy cprofitt did
<Rocket2DMn> i'm just the messenger today
<j1mc> :)
<Rocket2DMn> BTW, we're gonna get a community doc page on Grub2 real soon, drs305 is finishing it up in the next couple of days i believe
<j1mc> mdke & Rocket2DMn ... it seems like the new documentation utility is docbook-focused... it seems like the mallard stuff is still up in the air.
<j1mc> Rocket2DMn: that is great
<j1mc> finding documentation on grub2 is a little difficult
<Rocket2DMn> yeah j1mc , there is a page on w.u.c but it is geared toward testers
<mdke> j1mc: I think it is in very early stages as yet. But gnome-doc-utils is a lot more developed, I think it would make sense for him to base the project off that
<Rocket2DMn> drs305 has some very nice forum tutorials on grub2, so i asked him to write the community doc page and he accepted
<mdke> shaunm: if you happen to come upon this discussion, we're discussing https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2009-October/013845.html
<j1mc> Rocket2DMn: that's great
<Rocket2DMn> yeah j1mc , i think so too.  Some Beginners Team members have some very good knowledge about different subjects and can therefore write good documentation on them
<Rocket2DMn> bodhi.zazen is great with security and virtualization topics, so I've had him help with firewall documentation, and soon to rework KVM pages and a few others
<j1mc> mdke: yeah, i think having him collaborate on gnome doc-utils may prove to be most beneficial
<j1mc> i'm not clear on whether what he's put together is a set of command-line utilities, or if it is something different
<mdke> j1mc: worth collaring him at UDS and finding out :)
<Rocket2DMn> mdke, it appears that the docs are back up again
<mdke> cool
<Gwaihir> j1mc: I was looking at Kyle branch, looks like he has created a doc template for programs, a directories structure that you can put inside your project, edit a couple of Makefiles and you are done setting up the documentation part
<Gwaihir> oh... obviously you still have to write the documentation though :)
<j1mc> Gwaihir: interesting
<shaunm> mdke: yeah, I'd definitely like to see at least some of that effort put into g-d-u
<shaunm> we have old docbook templates in the gnome-docu module
<shaunm> but I think they do more harm than good, because they encourage you to write without planning
 * mdke nods
<mdke> shaunm: I'll post something to encourage Kyle to look at g-d-u too
<shaunm> not saying we can't identify common document patterns and do some sort of templating for them
<shaunm> it's actually something I've been wanting to do for mallard documents.  provide templates for common page types, with comments containing instructions on how you *probably* should organize information for that page
<shaunm> but planning and organizing a document is a different beast than deciding how to put words to paper on a single page
<mdke> yes, I agree
<shaunm> (obviously, I can't really speak to the sorts of integration features you might want in LP)
<mdke> I don't think that should matter
<mdke> Launchpad does its own integration really, at least as far as translations are concerned
<Rocket2DMn> mdke, what do you think we should do with bug 442417, there hasn't been any further feedback from the desktop team
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 442417 in ubuntu-docs ""Text Editor" changed to "gedit Text Editor" in Applications->Accessories" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/442417
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: I chatted to seb about it and he said he would get back to me as a few people had complained about the menu entry, but he hasn't... leave it open for now
<mdke> afk for a bit
<Rocket2DMn> ok
<dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn: hi what's up
<Rocket2DMn> hi dhillon-v10 , just watching some football
<dhillon-v10> <Rocket2DMn> do you have some time to look over my document that I was working on
<Rocket2DMn> dhillon-v10, what document is that?
<dhillon-v10>  http://docs.google.com/View?id=dctjtzjg_113nnb93qf6
<dhillon-v10> <Rocket2DMn> I worked hard on this one
<dhillon-v10> :)
<Rocket2DMn> dhillon-v10, where is this document supposed to go?
<dhillon-v10> <Rocket2DMn> system docs. its the user guide for gnome-display apperance
<Rocket2DMn> I don't believe the system docs have screenshots in them
<dhillon-v10> <Rocket2DMn> :( really now I'll have to remove that
<Rocket2DMn> ok, welli can see some stuff already that isn't quite right
<Rocket2DMn> for example, in Chapter 2, you said "System -> Administration -> Restricted Drivers Manager "
<Rocket2DMn> it should be Hardware Drivers right?
<dhillon-v10> yes
<dhillon-v10> sorry about that
<dhillon-v10> its fixed
<Rocket2DMn> also, the gnome-display-properties doesn't work for nvidia restricted drivers, you need to use their utility
<dhillon-v10> but they are downloaded through the same utility
<Rocket2DMn> they are downloaded through Hardware Dribers
<Rocket2DMn> but if you try to open gnome-display-properties, it will say that the graphics driver does not support the necessary extensions to use the tool
<dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn> yah that's what I wrote in the document right...
<Rocket2DMn> dhillon-v10, in your topics list at the top, you don't need phrases like "Talk about"
<dhillon-v10> <Rocket2DMn> I am going to remove all that its just for review
<Rocket2DMn> ok
<dhillon-v10> :) so what do you think
<Rocket2DMn> dhillon-v10, at the beginning, try to avoid using "I" or "me"
<Rocket2DMn> "Iâm going to assume"
<Rocket2DMn> also, a VGA port on the back of the computer is not the only place to plug in monitors
<Rocket2DMn> there are also DVI ports, or HDMI, both of which can be used to plug in monitors or TVs
<dhillon-v10> <Rocket2DMn> alright, Phil told me about not using I its for review, I will fix the VGA ports part
<dhillon-v10> I'll make it third person
<Rocket2DMn> do you know if X needs to be restarted for a second monitor to be detected, or will it hotplug?
<dhillon-v10> <Rocket2DMn> It will have to be restarted so X can change the configuration
<dhillon-v10> <Rocket2DMn> hotplug might work but restarting X is a safer way
<Rocket2DMn> Then you should mention that in chapter 1
<Rocket2DMn> i'm not really sure about it though, like you should be able to plug in to projectors and whatnot without having tpo restart X
<dhillon-v10>  <Rocket2DMn> yes that's true but do you think I should mention that restarting X is a safer way so it should be followed or just mention hotplugging
<Rocket2DMn> I'm not sure, you may just say that X may need to be restarted if the second moinitor isn't detected when you hotplug and try to enable it within X
<dhillon-v10> <Rocket2DMn> ah, effective use of language :)
<dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn> wait a sec. if you go by using the GUI to add a new monitor it will prompt you to log out for changes to take effect so what do you think about that
<Rocket2DMn> dhillon-v10, that's fine, as long as it's documented
<dhillon-v10> <Rocket2DMn> alright, so now I'll have to remove all the screenshots and write parts of the doc. over again right
<Rocket2DMn> i dont think there is a lot of rewriting to do
<dhillon-v10> <Rocket2DMn> yay! I actually did something useful for the community
<Rocket2DMn> :)
<dhillon-v10> <Rocket2DMn> so what happens after I fix those errors, email the doc to you
<Rocket2DMn> dhillon-v10, it is better if you find out where exactly in the docs it should go, then open a bug report and attach the text
<Rocket2DMn> you can also email the list
<dhillon-v10> <Rocket2DMn> it was on the To-Do list so I started working on it now I have to format the doc. with docbook code and then I'll email the list
<Rocket2DMn> im not sure what documentaiton may already exist for the stuff you wrote iup
<dhillon-v10> <Rocket2DMn> the To-Do list said none existed for that
<Rocket2DMn> ok, im just saying that idk, I havent looked
<dhillon-v10> <Rocket2DMn> can you update the wiki here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation/Tasks on the gnome-display task so no one else starts working on the same document
<Rocket2DMn> dhillon-v10, you can update the page yourself
<Rocket2DMn> it's a public wiki
<dhillon-v10> <Rocket2DMn> cool, I didn't know I could do that because that page is important
<dhillon-v10> <Rocket2DMn> one quick question are there any online services that convert txt to docbook format
<Rocket2DMn> not that i know of, you can't convert plain text to docbook since it cant determine what things should have tags
<Rocket2DMn> although, it may be able to pickup some stuff, there may be a html-to-docbook xslt somewhere
<dhillon-v10> <Rocket2DMn> alright I will find something, thank you very much for helping me here
<Rocket2DMn> sure thing
<dhillon-v10> <Rocket2DMn> In 3 years from now I'll catch up to you :P
<Rocket2DMn> lol, it doesnt take that long.  you just gotta give the illusion that you know what you're doing ;)
<dhillon-v10> alright bye
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: does gufw have a manual now? or did you remove it from the Tasks wiki page on the basis that there is something included in the keeping-safe document?
<Rocket2DMn> mdke, on the basis that it is outlined int he keeping-safe document
<Rocket2DMn> if that's not adequate we can add it back to the list
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: ok. It still doesn't have a manual though, it think it needs onboard documentation that goes into more detail
<mdke> s/it/I
<mdke> and a help button
<Rocket2DMn> oic, is the Help menu in Gufw supposed to take you to something in ubuntu-docs ?
<mdke> no, not necessarily
<mdke> normally it should point at a manual for the application
<mdke> sometimes that could be a part of ubuntu-docs, but it doesn't have to be
<Rocket2DMn> ok, we can add it back to the list, my bad
<mdke> ok, I'll do it
<Rocket2DMn> thanks, sorry about that
<mdke> np at all
#ubuntu-doc 2010-10-18
<antileet> shaunm, ping!
<shaunm> antileet: pong
<antileet> shaunm, I'd spoken to you about some service I wanted to build many months ago. I'm launching that in a little while. The public website is http://tuxtorial.com/ I was hoping I could get your feedback
<antileet> my writing skills aren't that great and I want to make sure that people get the idea
<antileet> since it's directly related to docs, I thought I could talk to you
<shaunm> antileet: would you be able to attend the writersua conference March 13-16?
<shaunm> http://www.writersua.com/conference/index.html
<shaunm> Long Beach, CA, USA
<shaunm> there's a peer showcase where you could get a booth to show this off
<shaunm> I'm trying to stuff that conference full of open source people
<antileet> shaunm, I'd love to try, but that'd be highly unlikely.
<antileet> I'm in India :P
<antileet> but it looks really intersting
<shaunm> antileet: this looks really nice. is there something specific you wanted me to look at?
<shaunm> I think one of the best ways for people to get an idea of what it can do is to seed it with actual tutorials people can view
<shaunm> so they can see the end result
<antileet> shaunm, right. I am planning to do that but the main application isn't ready yet. I am looking for people to test it out before making a public release
<shaunm> well, send me a download and I'll play with it this week
<shaunm> I have to run soon. hosting a dinner party in a couple hours, and there's a lot of prep work to do
<antileet> sure. thanks for your time
<shaunm> shaunm@gnome.org if you want to email
#ubuntu-doc 2010-10-19
<JoeMaverickSett> hello, i'm working on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Games. could/should i put DOSBox under windows emulator?
<zkriesse> I would
<zkriesse> As that is what DOSBox is
<JoeMaverickSett> okie. and also for Online Java Games, should i create a new page link it to the main page and give brief descriptions of each?
<JoeMaverickSett> as i think it would shorten the main Games page.
<zkriesse> it'd probably be a good idea
<JoeMaverickSett> okie. i'll work on it then. :)
<zkriesse> kewl
<JoeMaverickSett> zkriesse: one more thing, as the name is Online/Java Games, with a / in between, when i create a new page should i do help.ubuntu.com/Community/Games/OnlineJavaGames ? or /Games/Online-JavaGames?
<zkriesse> no dash
<zkriesse> just /Games/OnlineJavaGames
<JoeMaverickSett> okie.cool! :)
<zkriesse> if someone has a fit I can always change it
<JoeMaverickSett> okie.
<zkriesse> lovely part of being a wiki admin
<JoeMaverickSett> hehe! :)
<JoeMaverickSett> in https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Games#Emulators can i merge both "Windows Emulator" and "Other Emulators" headings to "Windows/Other Emulators" and give more description?
<JoeMaverickSett> hello, in https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Games#Emulators , could i merge "Windows Emulators" & "Other Emulators" to "Windows/Other Emulators"?
#ubuntu-doc 2010-10-23
<peppe84> Hi. In how many time, approximately, 10.10 official doc? thanks.
#ubuntu-doc 2011-10-20
<jbicha> mdke: there was a problem with how the docs were generated, look at the header of https://help.ubuntu.com/11.10/ubuntu-help/tips.html
<jbicha> I just did a sed replace on the 11.10 folder
<mdke> jbicha: weird, maybe I committed an earlier build or something. I'll check the source to see if there is something missing
<mdke> jbicha: thanks for taking care of it, hopefully the auto update will run soon :)
#ubuntu-doc 2011-10-21
<jbicha> I guess the help.ubuntu.com autosync doesn't work after all
#ubuntu-doc 2011-10-22
<mdke> jbicha: correct, but it is now working, I hope
<mdke> jbicha: if you happen to be any good at html or css, I could use some help fixing a couple of problems with the new theme
<mdke> jbicha: by the way, if I haven't mentioned it, good use of Amy Pond in the screenshots :)
<jbicha> mdke: GNOME uses Wanda for their screenshots
<jbicha> I'm not that great at html/css, the new theme looks pretty good except that gray is too washed out
<jbicha> the mouse-over main picture doesn't work
<mdke> yeah, that's the one I had in mind
<mdke> I can't remember who figured it out for natty
<mdke> either you or Connor :)
<mdke> which gray?
<jbicha> it wasn't me, I've not done too much with the website
<jbicha> unity-appmenu-intro.html has the bullets on a different line than the text
<mdke> ah. looks alright on google-chrome
<mdke> need to try some other browsers
<jbicha> I'm using FF8
<mdke> I see the bug on FF7, hrmph
#ubuntu-doc 2011-10-23
<Rocket2DMn> mdke, the updated theme on the docs is looking great
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: cool. I have just made some more tweaks
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: was it you who figured out how to make the mouseover image switching work on the front page last time?
<Rocket2DMn> i dont recall
<Rocket2DMn> probably not, that was an issue when we switched to mallard and the new look right?
<mdke> think so
<mdke> anyway, it's not working now
<Rocket2DMn> hmm, i do recall the issue, not sure who figured it out though
<Rocket2DMn> some kind of css issue?
<mdke> guess so
<mdke> i'll look into it at some stage
<mdke> it's not a biggie
<mdke> the css is really messy at the moment. The theme I used (light-moin-theme) is quite horribly untidy
<zkriesse> Rocket2DMn: OH MY GOSH
<zkriesse> Rocket2DMn: It's you!!! HOW HAVE YOU BEEN MAN?!?!
<jbicha> by the way, the mouseover switcher is broken on the 11.10 website
<mdke> jbicha: ah, that's interesting. Something different between the way it is done maybe in yelp-xsl between natty and oneiric
<jbicha> I think the stylesheet that was used for 11.04 wasn't committed to our source repository
<mdke> hmm
<zkriesse> ohai mdke
<mdke> hi zkriesse
<zkriesse> How goes mein freund?
<mdke> alright thanks
<zkriesse> Good to hear
<Rocket2DMn> sorry guys was on the phone
<zkriesse> Rocket2DMn: A likely excuse
<zkriesse> :P
<Rocket2DMn> lol, what's up zkriesse ?
<zkriesse> Not a whole lot man, how you been?
<zkriesse> Been a long time since I've spoken with the guy who got me wiki-ing
<Rocket2DMn> been keeping busy i guess
<zkriesse> Good to know
<Rocket2DMn> yeah, wouldnt be able to stand it if i was bored outta my mind
<mdke> shaunm: I have an xslt question. I've noticed that using our theme (and the library.gnome one), the trails are only generated for subpages of the Desktop Guide, and not on index.html. Is there a way around that?
<Rocket2DMn> hmm cant seem to figure out that css thing
<shaunm> mdke: I assume you're overriding mal2html.page.linktrails.trail right now, to insert the extra links, yes?
<shaunm> so that doesn't even get called if there's no links
<shaunm> do you override html.header.mode on mal:page?
<shaunm> two options:
<shaunm> 1) if you have an html.header.mode override, call mal.link.linktrails there, and if it returns nothing, do something special to write a trail
<shaunm> 2) override mal2html.page.linktrails, copying the current definition from yelp-xsl. change the xsl:if that checks if there are trails to ouptut to an xsl:choose/xsl:when, add an xsl:otherwise to output a trail if there is none
<shaunm> Rocket2DMn: I thought I'd fixed the potential for that problem in yelp-xsl
<shaunm> had something to do with css positioning
<shaunm> position:relative or something
<Rocket2DMn> shaunm, i'm not sure, but i do see some css in 11.04 that isnt there in 11.10 (even though 11.10 has more css actually)
<Rocket2DMn> stuff like:
<Rocket2DMn> div.figure > div.inner > div.contents {
<Rocket2DMn>   padding: 8px 16px 8px 16px;
<Rocket2DMn> }
<Rocket2DMn> i'm afraid i'm not much of a CSS guru though
<mdke> shaunm: sorry, some internet issues. Yes, we override that template. Option 2 sounds the easiest
<mdke> shaunm: thanks
#ubuntu-doc 2012-10-16
<pmatulis> mdke: there?
<mdke> pmatulis: (In case I'm not around at the moment, please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I get back)
#ubuntu-doc 2012-10-17
<PeterMahnke> hello... I am from the Canonical web team... anyone know when the https://help.ubuntu.com/12.10/ pages are going live?
<PeterMahnke> hello... I am from the Canonical web team... anyone know when the https://help.ubuntu.com/12.10/ pages are going live?
<head_victim> PeterMahnke: I can't really help but wanted to acknowledge your message at least. If you get no luck here you can try either the mailing list or perhaps identica - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Contact
<PeterMahnke> ok... thanks head_victim for the info
<head_victim> I'm not sure but perhaps mdke might be able to provide more info.
<head_victim> (sorry for the ping if you can't)
<PeterMahnke> have had emailed that list
<guntbert> hi, who is able to edit https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuHashes ? (immutable page)! The hash-values for 12.04.1 are missing, ab bug #1051082 has been filed.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1051082 in ubuntu-docs "https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuHashes needs updating for 12.04.1" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1051082
<guntbert> *a bug...
#ubuntu-doc 2012-10-18
<cjwatson> Hey, http://help.ubuntu.com/12.10/installation-guide/ still seems to be the 12.04 guide
<cjwatson> Can anyone update that ASAP before release?
<guntbert> hi tsimpson, at last,  a living soul! :-)
<tsimpson> I may be living, but I'm not actually in the doc team
<guntbert> I was afraid it my be so  -  it looks like there is nobody around - at least there are no ractions
<guntbert> *might
<guntbert> ouch, my typing is awful
<jbicha> any wiki admins around?
<tsimpson> guntbert: they have a mailing list though, probably more active than here
<guntbert> tsimpson: I sent a mail, yesterday - still "awaiting moderation" :-/
<tsimpson> subscribe first, then it won't need moderation
<guntbert> seems a little silly for just one shot - but will do :-)
<jbicha> guntbert: it's being worked on now so you don't have to send the email if you don't want to
<guntbert> jbicha: thx for the info - too late :)
<guntbert> a propos wiki:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/MeetingAgenda  seems just a little bit outdated :-)
<jbicha> guntbert: yes, most of the DocumentationTeam/ pages are a bit out-of-date, you're welcome to help update them
<guntbert> jbicha: good point, I joined the team - we'll see what I can help
<radu> can someone fix this bug? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-docs/+bug/1068202
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1068202 in ubuntu-docs "URGENT: 2 BIG mistakes on the //help.ubuntu.com/ homepage" [Undecided,New]
<jbicha> radu: sure, it's already fixed but the website only gets rebuilt once a day so you'll have to wait until tomorrow
<radu> a ok then :) thanks
<cjwatson> jbicha: admins might be figuring out how to help that along nowish
<jbicha> cjwatson: oh thanks, it looks fixed now :)
#ubuntu-doc 2012-10-19
<MrChrisDruif> For anyone interested in creating/converting to ebooks: ask SilverLion in #ubuntu-news
<MrChrisDruif> He'll give a quich tutorial over G+ in a few minutes.
<Silverlion> any one awake ?
#ubuntu-doc 2012-10-20
<jbicha> man, I can't figure out bug 1051144
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1051144 in ubuntu-docs (Ubuntu) "help.ubuntu.com/11.10/ubuntu-help/index.html" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1051144
<jbicha> I blame some conspiracy from mdke to have our docs partly in Italian ;)
<jbicha> it doesn't make sense why https://help.ubuntu.com/11.10/ubuntu-help/index.html.en would be different than https://help.ubuntu.com/11.10/ubuntu-help/index.html when my accept language is en-US; en
<jbicha> it looks like it's working fine in Chromium but not Firefox and 11.10 is the only release affected
<jbicha> oh wait, maybe it's just a caching problem now
<shaunm> ooh, chinese!
<jbicha> shaunm: oh, I'm talking about the Italian bug, Chinese is bug 1000049
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1000049 in ubuntu-docs (Ubuntu) "Help pages all in Chinese with no Accept-Language" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1000049
<jbicha> stupid Epiphany, not sure why it doesn't send Accept Language
<jbicha> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/ubuntu-docs/help.ubuntu.com/view/head:/.htaccess
<jbicha> I'm guessing that zh-CN is at the end of the fallback list so that's why we get Chinese
<jbicha> anyway, it's not in Italian for me any more so maybe I did fix it and it was just transiently still broken
#ubuntu-doc 2013-10-14
<`Fibz`> there is a broken link in an ubuntu wiki page i am trying to correct. when i click login, i am directed to the ubuntu-wiki homepage. when i navigate back to the page i want to edit, i have to click login again and start over in an endless loop.
<`Fibz`> when i click login = i click login, login page loads, i enter my credentials, confirm my identity, then am redirected to the ubuntu wiki homepage*
<`Fibz`> hi
#ubuntu-doc 2013-10-17
<eagles0513875> hey bel
<bkerensa> pleia2: do you have a list of contributors for xubuntu doc
<bkerensa> looks like the credits section of release notes was left undone :) need to get all the people added
<eagles0513875> hey pleia2
<pleia2> eagles0513875: hey
<eagles0513875> hows it going
<eagles0513875> monday im working so ill be a bit late but should be here none the less
<eagles0513875> so do not wait up for me
<pleia2> bkerensa: http://docs.xubuntu.org/1310/ln-idp359824.html
<pleia2> eagles0513875: thanks :) busy day for me, releaes of ubuntu and openstack, plus lots of work, meetings, blah
<eagles0513875> pleia2: i know the feeling thats how its been this week for me
<eagles0513875> things are settling down
<pleia2> here too
<eagles0513875> today was very productive for me from finishing corrections to my cv
<eagles0513875> hopefully tomorrow I will be able to talk to the person that looked it over for me.
<eagles0513875> and they can send it out for that linux sys admin position
<pleia2> yay :)
<eagles0513875> finished up the blessed mail server for my gf's father and inquired as well about a masters in information security
<eagles0513875> plus a CISA course ( certified information systems auditor)
<eagles0513875> i need to land a permanent job as I am going ot have no way to pay for these courses
<eagles0513875> and i start part 2 of the php course i started and eventually i will get zend certification
 * pleia2 nods
<eagles0513875> and android development course
<belkinsa> Just passing on a Ubuntu tip: Use Unity Tweak to disable the Online Sources for good if you don't need them.
#ubuntu-doc 2013-10-20
<littlegirl> Hey there, I assigned myself the task of fixing https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-docs/+bug/1242277 but can't figure out how to edit https://help.ubuntu.com/ - anybody got any advice on how it's done?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1242277 in ubuntu-docs (Ubuntu) "Salamander is spelt incorrectly on help.ubuntu.com main page" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<belkinsa> I think you need to be an wiki admin?
<littlegirl> Oh, hehe, I'd better unassign myself, then. (:
<dsmythies> https://help.ubuntu.com/ is maintained via the launchpad branch https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/ubuntu-docs/help.ubuntu.com . It is not a wiki. The bug report mentioned earlier has been fixed.
<dsmythies> I use https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation/BuildingDocumentation as my how-to reference for help.ubuntu.com
<belkinsa> So, help.ubuntu is really the system docs?
<dsmythies> Yes, help.ubuntu.com is a combination of the DeskTop help and severguide master files, with about 4 or 5, maybe more, glue files that hold it all together. help.ubuntu.com is in all supported languages. The serverguide was just added in other languages for 13.10. However the serverguide .pdf still has issues in other languages, so only English for it.
<pleia2> belkinsa: the wiki is everything under help.ubuntu.com/community/
<pleia2> belkinsa: if it doesn't have /community/ that means it's system docs
<belkinsa> Yeah, I figured.
<belkinsa> But thank you.
<pleia2> sure
<belkinsa> Do we have any numbers of how many people use the community wiki?
#ubuntu-doc 2014-10-17
<Aigeano> hello guys
<Aigeano> anyone there???
<belkinsa> Aigeano, do you need help?  Please keep in mind this is a IRC channel where there are people who lurk and will reply when they have a time, hence the relay part of IRC.
<belkinsa> Or away from the keyboard.
<Aigeano> belkinsa , I have some queries related to upgrading from ubuntu 12.04 LTS to 14.04LTS
<belkinsa> As in is the docs on the subject is wrong or confusing?   If it's support, please /join #ubuntu, that is our support channel.
<Aigeano> Thank you for guiding me in right direction
<belkinsa> Not a problem.
<belkinsa> And understand that our means Ubuntu's.
<belkinsa> Well, Ubuntu community's.
#ubuntu-doc 2015-10-12
<Lazza> pmatulis: ok thank you, nevermind. I won't do that because if I subscribe to a ML just to explain that my content was vandalized I will be pointed at as the guy who dares to question "veteran" Ubuntu wiki contributors... :) I don't want to risk getting my Launchpad account pruned.
<pmatulis> Lazza: nope, that won't happen
#ubuntu-doc 2015-10-15
<aisrael> Would it be possible to get this page renamed (to fix the typo)? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbumtuOnMacMini
<pmatulis> hmm, yah, "U-bum-tu", is a new one to me
<pmatulis> aisrael: there is one:
<pmatulis> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuOnMacMini
<pmatulis> we need to delete the bad page
<pmatulis> oh no, the bad page is receiving more updates
<aisrael> Well, that page is much more useful. The bad one is the one I keep seeing in my google search results
<pmatulis> aisrael: can you send a note to the ubuntu-doc mailing list on this issue?
<aisrael> pmatulis: Yep, will do
<pmatulis> aisrael: thanks a bunch!
#ubuntu-doc 2016-10-20
<pmatulis> pleia2, hi, i hear you are a free agent now :(
<pleia2> pmatulis: indeed :\
<pleia2> pretty gutted to leave the teams I'm on, I loved my job
<pleia2> but new beginnings and all, I'm sure it'll all be ok and I'll find another great thing
<pmatulis> come to the 'buntu mothership perchance? :D
<pleia2> I've had a few chats, but it won't work out
<pleia2> I think my requirements are a bit much for a small-ish company
<pleia2> (salary, event travel)
<pmatulis> you like to travel you mean?
<pleia2> I travel about 25% of the time to speak at conferences
<pleia2> do about 100k of travel per year
<pleia2> HPE was paying for that, looking for someone else to now ;)
<pmatulis> people around me travel a fair amount
<pmatulis> but, if you looked into it already, ok
 * pleia2 nods
#ubuntu-doc 2016-10-23
<jhansonxi> Obsolete page: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Antivirus/Avg  (discontinued/no download: https://support.avg.com/answers?id=906b0000000XcAQAA0)
<jhansonxi> Page needs update: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Antivirus (AVG discontinued, BitDefender discontinued: https://unices.bitdefender.com/)
<jhansonxi> Page needs update: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Antivirus (Avast! Linux Home Edition no longer exists, only business server products)
<jhansonxi> More recent antivirus list: https://www.av-test.org/typo3temp/_processed_/csm_0915_Linux_Tabelle_scanwerte_neu2_en_43e6000a5c.png
