#ubuntu-artwork 2006-05-08
<klepas> g'evening
<lapo> hi klepas
<lapo> hi
<artnay> hey lapo
<lapo> hi artnay
<artnay> for once I have ubuntu running... tangerine is just fine with ubuntu theme, thanks
<artnay> ,9
<artnay> actually I'm just installing ubuntu on this computer
<artnay> espresso (or what the hell is the new name of it) is still quite buggy, have to edit fstab manually
<lapo> thanks, happy you like it
<artnay> you know, I haven't had a computer for like 4 months or so... :)
<artnay> finally got my new motherboard and psu
<artnay> anyways, how's tangerine going?
<lapo> back in the business then :-)
<artnay> apt-cache told me it's going on 0.9.xx
<artnay> have you guys had a lot of input with it or what?
<artnay> many people contributing etc.
<lapo> andreasn is the boss, btw I think folder-remote-* stuff should be in the next version, right?
<andreasn> yep, put those in today
<lapo> yes a nice amount of contribution, nothing really usable for various reason yet, but it's a good start
<artnay> well I downloaded beta2 since that had a nice amount of seeders
<artnay> as soon as espresso gets its job done, I'll update and thank you guys once again ;)
<artnay> umh, background reminds me of... OS X? is that done by the artist hired by canonical?
<andreasn> what background?
<lapo> I don't know who is the author of that one
<artnay> lapo: I see lots of your icons on the screen, job well done
<artnay> andreasn: default in beta2
<andreasn> perhaps the iconfactory guy
<artnay> so how's communication with canonical?
<artnay> I mean, I remember the artwork weekend
<artnay> people in london
<andreasn> I'm chatting with dholbach mostly
<andreasn> and people on the ubuntu-art list
<andreasn> but that is about how involved I am
<artnay> ok, so artwork is still being done sort of behind closed doors then
<lapo> yep :-/
<artnay> you know, I had this funny marketing idea
<andreasn> well, a bunch of icons are done by a hired guy
<artnay> a way to earn some extra money for canonical, tell me what you think of it
<andreasn> and then we redo that stuff, but adhering to the tango style guidelines
<artnay> shipit sends the CDs for free, but it can (to be precise, it took back in breezy) several months to get CDs delivered
<artnay> and then there's this ubuntushop which sells all of kind of ubuntu stuff (stickers, shirts etc.)
<artnay> and if take a look at ubuntuforums, you'll see there's lots of people interested in to buy some ubuntu stickers or whatever
<artnay> but the postal fee is usually higher than the actually cost of a sticker/shirt/mug
<artnay> and as we all know of it, there's lots of people interested in supporting ubuntu (or donating) a way or another
<artnay> umh, are you still following? I guess I'm a bit drunk but nevermind with that stuff :)
<artnay> anyways, canonical could lessen their shipit costs by sending via shipit CDs and some fun stuff
<artnay> I mean, you'll see all those ubuntu CDs on ebay etc.
<artnay> and if you bought something from ubuntushop (and simultaneosly ordering something), you'd get some donating euros to launchpad projects
<artnay> like "You bought a t-shirt on %date. By doing that, you earned a percentage of the t-shirt to be donated to launchpad project(s)"
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-05-09
<artnay> that's a win-win situtation I think
<andreasn> whups
<andreasn> time for bed
<artnay> canonical could still send free CDs via shipit (a sort of not getting evil :>), but they could still sends CDs via ubuntushop a) faster, without a queue to ubuntushop customers b) earn some extra money for launchpad projects decided by the customers c) lessen the postal fees
<artnay> andreasn: have a good one then ;)
<artnay> that wouldn't hurt canonical's/ubuntu's image as being free, but it could still make a few extra euros
<artnay> umh, taking advantage of their community... well at least I'd go for that
<artnay> anybody?
<artnay> fcuk, espresso is still stuck on 15 % and I already rebooted the machine. I guess it still has some serious bugs (time to file a bug report)
<TuxthePenguin> hi all
<scoutboy2008> this is a pretty quiet channel isn't it
<scoutboy2008> about how long does it take for a submitted background to be cleared?
<scoutboy2008> /channel
<jak08> hello
<lapo> ni
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-05-10
<jak08> about how long does it take for a bacground to be approved?
<lapo> hi
<gepatino> hi, is this the right place to make a suggestion on icons?
<lapo> maybe :-)
<lapo> gepatino: tangerine?
<gepatino> yea
<gepatino> sorry for the delay
<lapo> gepatino: no problem, shot the suggestion :-)
<gepatino> lapo, have you seen the little icon for network-monitor?
<lapo> if you have to rant it is probably my fault :-)
<gepatino> :)
<gepatino> the one that shows two monitors conected?
<lapo> it uses my network workgroup icon
<gepatino> i think it could be more clear if these little monitors show full plain colors while transfering data
<lapo> I'm thinking about doing a specific icon for that one I don't see network-workgroup good for it
<gepatino> like in breezy, when transmiting, the screens get pale blue
<gepatino> ok
<lapo> gepatino: we could use network-transmit istead of network-workgroup
<gepatino> or maybe one screen in red and the other in green (or wathever two color you think appropiate) to whow uploads and downloads.
<lapo> gepatino: this is not something we can change thos you should open a bug against the appication
<gepatino> lapo, sorry, haven't see that one
<gepatino> lapo, but, is it a bug? I mean is not that bad to have the icon we have now
<gepatino> lapo, just a suggestion
<lapo> It's a bug :-)
<gepatino> ok... so it'll be reported
<gepatino> thanks
<lapo> thanks for reporting! :-)
<gepatino> you're doing a great job, artwork in dapper is just beatifull
<gepatino> have a nice weekend! 
<lapo> ciao
<ertz> hello..
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-05-11
<lapo> hi
<jak08> does anybody know about how long it takes a background to be approved?
<klepas> on art.ubuntu.com?
<jak08> yes
<klepas> auc has somewhat fallen to disuse
<klepas> because of some of the cms problems
<klepas> art team was hoping to get some of the things fixed or maybe used a different cms but nothing has happened
<jak08> ok
<klepas> i have admin rights
<klepas> i can have a look if you wish
<jak08> ok thank you
<klepas> but that is one of the problems, adding content is a pain
<jak08> oh
<klepas> we need to download the file, check it, resize it for the various sizes, manually create thumbnails and then manually upload them via sftp
<jak08> i noticed that it might be a little complicated when i noticed that it was hand inspeced and downloaded
<jak08> i accedentally posted mine twice because i put it in and hadn't signed in yet so i signed in and it took me to a new screen thinking it had redericted me back to the start so i did it again only to find out it had sent the first time
<klepas> that's fine
<jak08> ok
<klepas> we're hoping some day to either get the problems fixed or use a different cms to handle the content
<jak08> and if you are wondering I took the orriginal picture before i edited it
<klepas> because frankly adding things manually is cumbersome and very time consuming when you've got ten or so submissions
<jak08> I see
<jak08> i can imagin
<jak08> it was difficult to get my files uploaded so i used Google page creator because i don't think it has a maximum file stipulation, but then it went and converted my png to jpg
<klepas> :)
<klepas> i'll have a look at it later on
<jak08> do you want me to give you a link to the place it is hosted?
<jak08> just so i can get an opinion
<jak08> http://scoutboy2008.googlepages.com/ubuntuwisemen1280x1024.jpg
<klepas> cool
<klepas> there are a lot of contrasting colours in that
<klepas> i'd polish it a bit
<klepas> :)
<jak08> i planned on it, that was the first version of it and i got excited so i posted it up.
<klepas> :)
<jak08> that ball took a lot of time, it started black, after I was done with that i felt like celebrating
<lapo> hi
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-05-12
<doctormo> hello al
<lapo> hi
<Omeg> Hey guys
<Omeg> The wiki is confusing. I've got a mockup for a future usplash screen that I want to explain somewhere, but I don't know where I would put it.
<Omeg> I already sent it to the developers but they said that even if there would be consensus to make the change to my mock-up, it's much too late for Dapper... so I'd like to make a page for it so people can comment on it and possibly vote for its inclusion in Edgy.
<lapo> Omeg: what do you mean by confusing, what do you wnat to do exactly?
<artnay> isn't /Artwork sort of dead already? try https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Usplash/Artwork
<artnay> lapo: by confusing I'd say that artwork is really separated in wiki
<lapo> yep that's true, some reorganization there would be nice
<artnay> any of you have human as SVGs?
<lapo> artnay: I don't think they provided any svgs
<artnay> too bad
<lapo> use tangerine :-)
<artnay> I am, but I'd like to play with human as well
<Omeg> Just that I can't clearly see where I need to post my stuff.
<Omeg> On Wikipedia, for example, it's not hard to decipher what a Wikiproject is or how to work for it.
<Omeg> Also, the usplash page says that 14 colors are required. But in reality, there are 16 colors (it's just that two of those are reserved for the "ok" and "fail" messages). Or isn't that so?
<lapo> it is
<Omeg> Isn't it so that the usplash artwork needs to be 640x400 as this is the default resolution for most computers? That's what I've been told at #ubuntu-devel.
<Omeg> Or does the development team make such adjustments?
<artnay> mjg told me that it has to be 640x400
<Omeg> Yeah, it does.
<artnay> I've seen 640x480 mentioned somewhere on the wiki, but it's wrong
<Omeg> Which is why, if you look at the screenshots at OSDIR, the splash page of the CD has a correctly scaled logo, and the usplash logo is squished vertically to about 80%.
<Omeg> It looks bad, but it's necessary.
<Omeg> But that's okay. It's easy to fix that.
<artnay> Omeg: it seems that /Artwork has been forgotten or left unused for some reasons. as long as the main projects are done (remember when dapper artwork was announced?) outside it, the whole category is outdated, confusing and meaningless
<doctormo> hmm
<Omeg> I'm writing down my proposal so it can be linked to for Edgy.
<Omeg> I wish that Ubuntu's wiki was a MediaWiki, personally. It seems more inituitive to me.
<doctormo> I've never seen a resolution of 640x400 where did the other 80 pixels go
<Omeg> Apparently, all systems start up with 640x400 and then stretch it to the full screen size. So that's why the logo in usplash is squished; the screen is stretched back to have it look correct again. At the cost of some lost pixels.
<Omeg> Which is unfortunate.
<Omeg> 640x400 is a standard resolution on most widescreen setups.
<artnay> afaik, it's also a standard vga resolution
<doctormo> VGA resolution is 640x480
<artnay> there's 640x350, 640x400, 640x480 etc.
<artnay> IBM480 is the most common of those
<lapo> In my opinion usplash cannot look good enough, using x as redhat/fedora does would be better solution
<Omeg> usplash can look pretty good if you do it right.
<Omeg> Good enough, anyway.
<artnay> umh, my bad. IBM400 doesn't seem to be a standard vga resolution, according to wikipedia
<artnay> time to refresh memory
<lapo> the resolution is too low, and you have too few colore
<lapo> colors
<doctormo> lapo: all you need is a program that uses the bios int 21 calls, get it up to 1024x768 with that :-)
<artnay> lapo: have you tried framebuffer, other resolutions?
<artnay> usplash is ok with 1024x768 for example
<artnay> just add vga=791 to bootline and see if your kernel/videocard supports it
<lapo> yep 1024x768 should be cool, but it is not the default and who cares about changing it
<artnay> if it does, add it to /boot/grub/menu.lst
<lapo> yeah I know how to play with framebuffer
<artnay> well it's a pity that usplash lacks a proper gui
<lapo> btw I have nvidia cards on most of my machine, and I have to disable it
<artnay> which would allow a) to change the theme b) resolution etc.
<lapo> artnay: goodlooking and working defaults would be better than the possibility to change them imho
<doctormo> lapo: nforce sucks
<artnay> lapo: true, but I guess it's pretty difficult to get the needed information in order to setup usplash for maximum eyecandy
<artnay> which leads to another issue... ;)
<lapo> artnay: that's why I say the rh solution is better
<doctormo> I thought you could create a number of splash screens ofdiffering resolutions and then let your boot program switch down further resolutions if they fail.
<artnay> lapo: afaik suse and rh solutions are just another hacks to kernel and they won't even work on some older hardware
<lapo> artnay: rh uses x server, so it works on every hw the x server can run
<artnay> and canonical pretty much gives more value to older hw than great looking graphics
<artnay> is this a new feature on fc5? haven't tried it yet
<lapo> artnay: it is like this since rh8 I believe
<artnay> that would require to the bootsequence to load X among the most important functions
<artnay> 5.5 apollo was the last red hat I tried :)
<lapo> hey it has cde :-)
<artnay> really, I'm not an X hacker, but I bet mr. stone would love to use this techinique if it was a really working option
<artnay> wmaker all the way
<lapo> uhm...right that was 4.x series
<lapo> they uses it since ages so I think it is a working solution
<lapo> btw I'm not an hacker so lemme do icons :-)
<artnay> umh, strange. I was just betting there must be an achilles' heel in that :)
<artnay> you do your icons, I'll go catch some sun while it's shining. bye guys.
<klepas> howdy folks
<lapo> hey klepas
<klepas> hey lapo 
<klepas> how's it going/
<lapo> fine thanks
<Omeg> Hey guys. I was gone for a while but just took the time to finish that usplash proposal for Edgy. Available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Usplash/Artwork#preview
<Omeg> If you have comments, please let me know about them (preferably there on the wiki).
<lapo> nice
<Omeg> Hmm... wiki seems to be a little slow. *stares at infinitely loading page while making a trivial change.*
<lapo> ferrari rules! :-)
<Omeg> Ferrari?
<Omeg> The car or... something else?
<lapo> f1, europe gp, 1st and 3rd
<jenda> hello :)
<andreasn> hi
<jenda> I am from the Marketing team, and I'd like to ask if there are any volunteers among the art team to make us an Ubuntu Promotion poster
<jenda> it can be simple, but has to be top notch, and biiig ;)
<jenda> in .svg, so it's possible to change text easily.
<andreasn> hm, I did some for the gnome marketing team
<jenda> I'll post something on the forum, as soon as I have time to sketch it up...
<jenda> (that is, ask for help there too - I myself am no artist :( )
<andreasn> http://live.gnome.org/MarketingTeam/MarketingMaterial
<andreasn> what do you need it for, some special event?
<andreasn> perhaps you can send a request to the ubuntu-art list
<jenda> no special event, but simply great demand
<jenda> I will ;)
<jenda> people want to hang out posters at their school etc.
<andreasn> I see
<jenda> and the MT should supply them with all that...
<andreasn> hm, something rather simple then, like a logo, some short text and a url
<jenda> the text, we can do
<jenda> and it would probably involve even a bit of a longer text...
<jenda> I say BIG logo, so that people notice, then a few big pieces of text that'll make the person walk up close and read teh fine print.
<jenda> I'd say logo and nice background gradient pretty much does the trick, perhaps a few frames for text? Can be added, I suppose..
<andreasn> if you are going to print them in a printing house, a gradient can be a bit tricky
<andreasn> I had some problems with that when doing the gnome posters
<andreasn> better fix some food, later!
<jenda> hmm
<jenda> well, it's not a must
<jenda> BTW, I registered #ubuntu-art to forward here
<maxco> hello, is someone could talk a little bit about ubuntu design ?
<maxco> *could someone
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-05-13
<ertz> hello!!
<andreasn> hi ertz
<ertz> hey andreasn :) how's it going?
<andreasn> not much, about to go to bed, porting crystal to icon-naming-spec
<ertz> nice... crystal is a good theme :)
<ertz> andreasn: did you get a chance to see dropline neu icons?
<ertz> hey AndyFitz 
<AndyFitz> g'day g'day ertz
<ertz> how are ya?
<AndyFitz> yeah doing well mate,  hows things going here ?
<ertz> pretty well... I was hoping to get some feedback on an icon set from an icon designer... would you mind to download and try an icon set i made?
<andreasn> hey AndyFitz
<AndyFitz> heya andreasn
<AndyFitz> ertz  sure thing
<ertz> thanks :) ... you can find it at: http://www.silvestre.com.ar/?p=53
<ertz> there's a small screenie in there too
<ertz> just in case you don't feel like downloading
<AndyFitz> wow its looking good 
<ertz> thanks :D
<AndyFitz> although the globe is of a different perspective
<AndyFitz> downloading now 
<ertz> yeah, I fixed that one :) just haven't posted an update yet
<ertz> BTW, there's part of your globe in there ;)
<lapo_> nice icons ertz
<ertz> thanks lapo_ :)
<lapo_> do you cover all the naming specs standard base with those?
<AndyFitz> the clean 22x22 versions are looking great ertz
<ertz> lapo_: not fully covered yet :) but will do
<ertz> thanks AndyFitz :)
<AndyFitz> important, folder-open and the trash icons are my favorites 
<AndyFitz> priunter is funky too at that perspective
<ertz> yeah.. i'll have a lot of problems when doing 16x16 of those icons that have this abuse of perspective :P
<lapo_> that perspective is a bad best with the tools we have (inkscape) so congrats pal, really nice work
<lapo_> beast
<ertz> :D
<AndyFitz> yeah perspective will have to distort for  16x16 I think.    but if people are willing to change their rc settings  to display only 22x22 icons   they'll have a nice chunky but suave theme
<ertz> yeah, but using 22x22 for stuff like "paste" looks kinda weird to me :) ... i think i'll have to do change the angle of the perspective for 16x16
<ertz> anyway, makes really happy you guys like it :)
<lapo_> when you're done with them, jump on the tango bandwagon! :-)
<ertz> sure thing lapo_ :) I've been thinking about contributing with some icons for the Tango Project 
<andreasn> ertz: if you feel like it, do some nice icons for the inkscape interface in tango-style
<andreasn> night guys!
<AndyFitz> night 
<lapo_> uhm...since I'm in his same time zone, better to go to bed as well (2.45 am) :-)
<lapo_> 'night guys
<ertz> AndyFitz: do you happen to know why the audio cd icon most (if not every) time doesn't show and instead shows a "generic" cd icon?
<ertz> i have gnome-dev-cdrom-audio
<ertz> but doesn't load it...
<ertz> though it shows fine in some apps that use that icon
<AndyFitz> ertz  no I don't know.  it bugs me too
<AndyFitz> nautilus bug ?
<AndyFitz> just re-did the inkscape logo  ( not icon ) http://andy.brisgeek.com/files/inkscape.svg  2091 byte - optimised shape. plus specularity
<lapo> hi
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-05-14
<lapo> hi
<lapo> hi
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-05-07
<yharrow> nothlit: look at this http://lisalichtenfels.net/pages/gallery01.html I am very impressed
<nothlit> yharrow: look @ the second page, the old woman and the small girl
<yharrow> chinese?
<nothlit> huh?
<troy_s> yharrow: Feck me...
<troy_s> yharrow: That link is crazy
<yharrow> nothlit: I saw 2 pictures of woman and small girl one of them is chinese people
<nothlit> troy_s: lol--thats the same site i gave earlier :P
<troy_s> nothlit: I know...
<troy_s> but it was faces
<nothlit> eh--there was a variety
<troy_s> nothlit: Yeah I only saw the faces
<troy_s> nothlit: The faces were pretty bloody intricate
<troy_s> nothlit: But the full body poses are pretty crazy
<zie> im new to Ubuntu art
<zie> i need a better understanding of what we do
<troy_s> zie: If you mean the team
<troy_s> zie: Nothing
<troy_s> nothlit: I sacred you out.
<troy_s> nothlit: Scared even
<troy_s> lol
<zie> lol
<zie> troy have we meet
<troy_s> zie:  I doubt it.
<troy_s> zie: Possibly?
<troy_s> Although rankin looks famil.
<zie> yes im looking at helping with a project
<zie> i need to work with someone, point me in the direction
<troy_s> There are many projects you might want to help with... just don't have the idea that any of Ubuntu itself will have much.
<troy_s> (aside from 'bugs' at times.)
<zie> im a graphic artist
<troy_s> well i am pretty sure that there are tons of projects that would love to have your abilities.
<troy_s> zie: Browse around looking for a project and offer up your talents to one that looks interesting to you.
<troy_s> zie: You might find something on launchpad
<troy_s> zie: Or google even.
<zie> ok
<troy_s> if you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask me.
<troy_s> not that i will be able to answer them...
<zie> ok
<troy_s> but i'll try
<troy_s> email too if you need.
<troy_s> ok... must sleep
<lapo> hi
<lapo> hi
<troy_s> nothlit: I think the poll will have closed at this point.
<troy_s> nothlit: Ping?
<nothlit> troy_s: still 7 hours according to launchpad
<troy_s> nothlit: Ah
<troy_s> nothlit: There will probably be about 2 votes cast
<troy_s> nothlit: LOL
<nothlit> troy_s: prolly-but we can still go with that :)
<troy_s> nothlit: Just goes to show you the interest level, that's all.
<troy_s> nothlit: A gdm-dev push for you.  That awful box is gone.
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> nothlit: Seriously though, if you can twiddle with some overlays, I would love to integrate them
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-05-08
<troy_s> nothlit: ping
<troy_s> nothlit: LOL.  9 people.  How fucking sad.
<nothlit> troy_s: thats two more than responders on the mailing list at least
<zie> hello zie here, i want to remake Ubuntu With a more pro look, and rename it Probuntu
<zie> more such as a mac, and focuses on Graphic designs, video editing, artwork and more
<zie> im a graphic artist starting this project
<zie> if your interested let me know
<zie> where creating the designs first
<nothlit> ehh
<nothlit> !ubuntustudio | zie
<ubotu> zie: ubuntustudio is a site is for the musician who wishes to use Ubuntu as their Digital Audio Workstation, at  http://www.ubuntustudio.com. Or visit  #ubuntu-studio
<nothlit> bah, that factoid is incorrect
<zie> no see this is not a music setup
<zie> it will funtion and basiclly be a mac
<zie> this can run with ubuntu
<nothlit> anyways--theres already a profession artist's ubuntu derivative with video/art/music
<nothlit> professional*
<zie> hmm ok
<zie> me and my crew have allready looked into it. What does Probuntu Will be an Upgrade from That. It will feature  Video/Art/Music but with a new design for Ubuntu, plus this format of Probuntu can run on the Ubuntu desktop
<zie> so easy, that you can drag icons over to Probuntu. And images to ubuntu and edit them.
<Madpilot> Probuntu? The Ubuntu project is getting stricter about *buntu naming, you know...
<zie> yes thats a problem
<zie> we have other names, but none of them relate to the Buntu>
<zie> We have Prototype , Witch we where going to name it
<zie> Ubuntu Prodotype
<zie> Or. We where going to name it. Linux PRO
<Madpilot> why don't you just join the Ubuntu Studio group? sounds like you're doing much the same thing - should be a good fit
<zie> whats the Studio Group?
<zie> is it on LAunchPad.com
<Madpilot> not sure - see the URLs nothlit posted
<zie> k
<zie> im currentlly working for Ubuntu Art, is Studio Group just a diffrent group?
<zie> there actually just fixing bugs at the moment
<Madpilot> Ubuntu Studio is an independant project, not directly connected to the main Ubuntu groups
<nothlit> _MMA_ and joejaxx are ustudio leads
<nothlit> you should talk to them
<nothlit> zie: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/openweekfeisty/studio
<zie> ok
<lapo> hi
<nysosym> hi lapo :)
<lapo> ciao nysosym
<nysosym> ciao lapo
<zie> CAN SOMEONE IN HERE TELL ME HOW TO CREATE MY OWN ROOM
<nothlit> /j #chan
<nothlit> !caps
<ubotu> PLEASE DON'T SHOUT! We can read lowercase too.
<zie> i didnt know it was on caps im sorry
<zie> now does this room always exist
<nothlit> no
<nothlit> you register it in chanserv
<zie> i create it everytime i get on xchat
<zie> how do i register it
<nothlit> /quote ChanServ help
<troy_s> lord
<troy_s> nothlit: Ping
<troy_s> nothlit ping me when you get a chance... we should probably start hammering out some base.
<nothlit> troy_s: http://people.fluxbuntu.org/~nothlit/communitytheme/gutsy/literature/collaborationprogress.txt just a few quick items
<troy_s> Very simple good work nothlit
<troy_s> If you can manage to get a bit more input, we can build outwards from that.
<troy_s> I'll pull up some palettes --
<troy_s> do you have a preference for a hue / saturation level?
<nothlit> I think the way I've associated progress there implies saturation
<nothlit> Hue? I envision warm colours--but I have a huge bias and I haven't thought out the particulars yet
<troy_s> nothlit: WHen you say harmonizing colours -- theoretically if you use a palette they are all harmonized... do you mean more analagous?
<troy_s> (as complimentary is very harmonious, but possibly not in the sense you mean)
<troy_s> so ideas?
<troy_s> or perhaps you think a more 'smattering' of palettes is worth looking at.
<nothlit> I mean colors that aren't complements, but in pairs that 'sing'
<troy_s> yes -- so more analagous?
<troy_s> analogous rather.
<troy_s> grr spellunk
<troy_s> can you spin the wheel and find a hue or two that is relative to what you are thinking?  from there i can pull out several sets based off of it from refs etc.
<freakboysystem> hello
<freakboysystem> i am not new to ubuntu but really want to help make Ubuntu the OS choice for computers, by doing this i want to help put my drawing art skills to use and make Ubuntu with an inspiring user interface
<troy_s> freakboysystem: We want you
<troy_s> freakboysystem: Ubuntu's team might not, but we do.
<freakboysystem> yes hello sorry i went down stairs
<freakboysystem> thankyou
<troy_s> freakboysystem: Do you have a portfolio or samples online?
<freakboysystem> no sorry
<freakboysystem> i can get a blog and put some samples on
<nothlit> troy_s: https://people.fluxbuntu.org/~nothlit/communitytheme/gutsy/colours/progress+collaboration.png --do you get where i'm going?
<freakboysystem> yes!
<freakboysystem> I want to focus on icon and background design
<nothlit> troy_s: those are a bit bold and drift a little too much toward the yellows--but i think you can see what i mean
<troy_s> nothlit: Sorry... i was working on something
<troy_s> ok i was tremming
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> freakboysystem: Put some stuffs up
<troy_s> nothlit: looking now
<troy_s> nothlit: Ok... I'll see what carbaga or someone has for a decent palette base
<troy_s> what one do you prefer if i can only say, get one redish one yellowish or whatever
<troy_s> can you give me a priority sequence?
<nothlit> I'd want a red, and a maroon of some sort--then orange,yellow,pale/yellow greens
<nothlit> you could throw a subtle magenta in if you want
<troy_s> nothlit: Hrm... I be this might be likely... hold on.
<troy_s> nothlit: Perhaps for that sort of purpose, deriving exactly ONE palette from
<troy_s> a sunset image might meet the needs
<freakboysystem> hello
<freakboysystem> any1 there
<troy_s> freakboysystem: Hello
<troy_s> freakboysystem: What do you require?
<freakboysystem> nothing i was wondering if ubuntu has any free pdf magazines stupid thing to ask but , yeh?
<troy_s> freakboysystem: I think the marketing team did some strange thing up like htat.
<troy_s> freakboysystem: Also, if you need to speak to someone, preface your comment with their name (type the first letter or two and hit tab)
<troy_s> freakboysystem: it will ping them on their system and let them know that you have a question.
<freakboysystem> troy_s: ok thankyou, im bored i think i might design one!
<darkmatter> troy_s is correct, the marketing team is *VERY* strange
<darkmatter> :D
<freakboysystem> lol
<troy_s> darkmatter: We are no better unfortunately.
<darkmatter> lol
<troy_s> darkmatter: Although methinks they could do better with a few MBAs on their team.
<troy_s> darkmatter: In much the same manner that we are lacking cred.
<darkmatter> its the whole geek thing. it has no room for that sanity crap
<troy_s> darkmatter: Well it had better reconcile it.  The half assed amateuritus will eventually wear down any sort of mainstream momentum it gets.
<darkmatter> yup
<troy_s> darkmatter: It really needs some solid rocks to stand on.  Arguably the folks like Eric Raymond, Stallman etc. were those rocks early going.  We need a new set to push us into the new millennium.
<darkmatter> anyway... the final vision for glory is complete. I'm going to see if I can get the pixmap version up n running by the weekend
<troy_s> darkmatter: Good stuffs.  Screenshot?
<troy_s> of twf or something?
<darkmatter> not yet.. just working on some pixmaps while the lads at school
<troy_s> darkmatter: Is it colorizable or nay?
<darkmatter> I figured out the skinning of the pathbar, mostly
<darkmatter> nope.. the initial build is non transparent for the general widgets
<darkmatter> so no colorizing as of yet
<darkmatter> but it will be one I get the pixmaps out and get some feedback
<darkmatter> because then comes the fun of transferring everything to cairo
<darkmatter> engine time pretty soon
<darkmatter> troy_s, but the engine part may take a bit... I'm doing the opposite of the whole "every widget looks the same" crap. it'll have full custom widget support coded in for the panel etc
<troy_s> hrm... how are you going to do that?
<troy_s> using the lua engine?
<darkmatter> as in make a "modern" engine instead of the round-win-98 clearlooks umm... sh*te
<darkmatter> troy, not lua.. just cairo, but with the extra code for the panel instead of just reusing the button widgets.. not that hard to do really
<darkmatter> just time consuming.
<darkmatter> I would base it of lua, but the code for lua isnt quite mature yet
<darkmatter> troy_s, but if you want a general idea, take a look at the tango palette. The glory palette is basically a modded version. bg_color is #eeeeec
<troy_s> ek
<darkmatter> it works nicely actually, has a fairy faint beige tint
<darkmatter> and its not glaring like gilouche, not win 2000 like clearlooks :P
<darkmatter> thats one of the things that drives me nuts about suse... its way to bright... ok for an lcd but painful on a crt
<troy_s> well... deep saturation is rather...
<troy_s> passee
<troy_s> just not exactly top contemporary
<darkmatter> well.. hence the modded version of the palette.. the eeeeec isnt that saturated looking
<troy_s> good stuff
<darkmatter> http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=484764319&size=o
<darkmatter> thats still the last weeks view
<darkmatter> buttons are going to be much nicer (outline and shadow)
<darkmatter> I'm thinking lighting it from the 11 o'clock position
<darkmatter> still looks weird, as its a slow build off morning glory
<darkmatter> but thats the eeeeec
<darkmatter> bg
<darkmatter> so the buttons should feel more natural. basically, though not accurate as a description, they'll be a general light  -> dark shift in the outline in a counterclockwise rotation starting at the top
<darkmatter> thin down the shadows and make it more complete
<darkmatter> etc
<troy_s> darkmatter: That shadow, as much as I love shadows, is a little odd... it puts the light very close and above, which is fine, except the rest of the shading seems to defy that.
<darkmatter> troy_s, yeah, which is why I'm moving to a more natural shadow (right and bottom) and 11 o'clock lighting for the widgets for as shadows and outlines
<troy_s> woot
<troy_s> i'll buy that
<troy_s> in a heartbeat
<troy_s> top left light guy here.
<darkmatter> :)
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> i'd love to see your mocks of that version
<darkmatter> once I finish more widgets, then I'll fix the button lighting'
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-05-09
<kishan_> hi there
<kishan_> any one here
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-artwork.log
<arrow> hi all
<arrow> I dare for a question: does exist a driver for a lexmark X1150 (printer+scanner)? :/
<arrow> ok for now, may be anytime...bye everyone!
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-05-10
<darkmatter> troy_s, ping
<troy_s> darkmatter: Go for me
<darkmatter> http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=492044705&size=o <-- still a little crude for my tastes, but is that better? (button1)
<troy_s> WOOp
<darkmatter> groovy
<troy_s> I love it... in fact
<troy_s> I think those tabs could probably glean a little from that application too.
<darkmatter> they will
<darkmatter> those are still the old tabs
<troy_s> i think that rocks
<troy_s> very sort of subtle, but enough to almost pull it out
<troy_s> have you tried those buttons with a grad in that stroke or ????
<darkmatter> havent had time to do any more work till tonight. going to finish off the button states then recolor the lines n crap... fix the notebook (it'l have a dropshadow too
<darkmatter> those buttons.. nope, not yet
<troy_s> wow...
<troy_s> i really need you to make that flex regarding colour
<troy_s> as i would love to use that gtk... it is almost exactly along the lines of what i was hoping for...
<darkmatter> cool
<darkmatter> I will switch over to trans after I get the general lines finished
<darkmatter> having it colorize is easy enough as long as I redo the widgets (solid color atm)
<troy_s> in order to use it though, it obviously has to be devoid of colour and either use some recolouring tactic or greytones to mix
<troy_s> hrm...
<troy_s> i would be interested in seeing that.
<darkmatter> theres a couple themes that do it, just use transparent pixmaps
<troy_s> yes that's what i thought, but you would still need to limit yourself to greytones.
<darkmatter> yup
<troy_s> to avoid contaminating the colours.
<darkmatter> and very neutral greys at that
<darkmatter> I'm incorporating some stuff from gilouche2.0 for the panels too
<darkmatter> it soes individual skinning of widgets for left, right, top and bottom
<darkmatter> *does
<darkmatter> and the panel in glory will need that, as its basically flat with a subtle grad
<troy_s> hrm...
<troy_s> if it can integrate its the first thing I am putting in.
<troy_s> mind you, i would love it if you could paint in a little more 'complexity' into the progress bars and scrollbars as an aftermarket remix version
<troy_s> here is a question, how is your metacity stroking that text?
<darkmatter> the problem (well, one of many) with more "generic" pixmap themes is that the panels are pretty much delegated to one screen edge, that being whichevr the themer set it to
<troy_s> i guess it is probably a +1 set of layers of the text then a centered drop
<troy_s> you mean to customize the look?
<troy_s> that is what that /panel_gtkrc is supposed to handle
<darkmatter> the metacity, not sure off hand, thats just gilouche... havent combed over the xml yet
<troy_s> if it weren't fuct, you could use FLAT_BOX etc to make it completely versatile.
<darkmatter> troy_s, yup.. but debian is b0rked :P
<troy_s> it wouldnt' matter where you put it, as your alignment would always be proper
<troy_s> yep... bug filed :)
<darkmatter> good
<troy_s> hopefully we will get some attention on it...  it is a serious shortcoming
<darkmatter> indeed
<troy_s> using that bloody kludgy pixmap approach has so many holes it isn't funny
<troy_s> not to mention that you also end up wildcarding everything that could possibly go into it to avoid a pothole in the look
<darkmatter> when I start the engine, I got a good pointer for pulling off some wild text effects
<troy_s> whereas that gtkrc for the panel would theoretically handle all of that very gracefully through a simple box and flat_box
<darkmatter> troy_s, yeah... and with the pixmap engine having several shortcomings of its own
<troy_s> i _love_ the dynamic cairo buttons, but it is too bad no one ever went further with it.
<darkmatter> theres one engine, but its not very evolved
<troy_s> as the three demos are bloody nasty
<troy_s> but the idea behind them, in terms of design, is brilliant.
<darkmatter> and other than the dynamic buttons its kinda hoehum
<troy_s> yeah i saw one variation on the tiger stripes
<troy_s> it wasn't even really a variation
<troy_s> more a clone with some other minor differences that i didn't notice
<darkmatter> yeah
<troy_s> you using inkscape for your elements?
<troy_s> you could very easily automate all of that drop shadow etc...
<troy_s> save you a crapload of time
<darkmatter> yeah... using inkscape, gimp for fine tuning
<darkmatter> im odd that way
<troy_s> the only real problem with gimp is that it is very 1 way
<darkmatter> yup
<troy_s> kind of breaks your simplicity...
<troy_s> have you tried native svgs in their respective roles?
<darkmatter> not yet
<troy_s> i have had pretty good success with them (aside from the obvious bloody STUPID way that GNOME renders svg's to their stated size then does a bloody scale)
<darkmatter> lol
<troy_s> _really_ half assed
<troy_s> _really_
<troy_s> the whole point of svg is the ability to give you crisp rendering perfection, and some idiot somewhere decided that
<troy_s> it was smart to render it to a bitmap then scale that...
<darkmatter> speaking of stupid... another bloody gtk bug I hate is the fact that you cant scale an svg or png across the window background
<troy_s> hrm...
<troy_s> by background what do you mean?
<darkmatter> if you want it to *scale* you need to make it freaking huge (as in not scaled, just looks that way)
<troy_s> because if you are talking 'background' image
<darkmatter> but then the bg takes ages to loade
<troy_s> as some sort of watermark
<troy_s> it is possible
<troy_s> although i am thinking aspect ratio might suck as would be expectd
<troy_s> avoid the bg_image stanza
<troy_s> and use the flatbox
<troy_s> the window base is a flatbox iirc
<darkmatter> hmm... perhaps
<troy_s> and if you override
<troy_s> the parent of the window container, it works
<troy_s> scale must obviously equal true...
<troy_s> that said, i seem to recall something fecked with entry boxes and text boxes for output...
<troy_s> but i cant be certain
<troy_s> so when is glory going to be suitable to drop into a design pattern?
<darkmatter> soon hopefully.. I'm going to work on it tonight. hopefully if I can find the time this weekend I'll get it finished
<troy_s> Is that with the transparency element?  I am quite willing to run with something alphaish if the colours aren't an issue.
<darkmatter> now that the final vision is clear, its just a matter of spitting out pixmaps
<troy_s> so ...
<troy_s> here is a question
<troy_s> are the progress bars in pixmap land stretched or is it possible to have an elegantly shaped progress bar
<troy_s> AND have it tile with a pattern?
<darkmatter> the transarency may take a bit longer. depends on how much time I can set aside for gfx
<troy_s> that would be _perfect_ if possible.
<troy_s> i know that as soon as you tile you run the risk of being square...
<darkmatter> actually.. it can tile... samui dos it.. will be using it as reference for the progressbars
<troy_s> i suppose the overlay file could carve out the shape ...
<troy_s> samui?
<darkmatter> mac port
<troy_s> the problem with relying on an overlay is that then you force the bloody colour factor into it
<troy_s> what is it?
<troy_s> a theme?
<darkmatter> pixmap theme
<troy_s> g-l?
<troy_s> christ... how many osx clones are we going to be forced to survive through
<darkmatter> http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=492091153&size=o
<darkmatter> yeah.. mac clones suck.. but at least it gave me the args needed ;)
<troy_s> woop, but see its square
<darkmatter> yeah
<darkmatter> the edges are blah
<troy_s> i think when youtile
<troy_s> you are automatically bound to a square
<troy_s> the only way i can think of of
<troy_s> overcoming is to 'shape' the basic tile by overlaying shape on it.
<troy_s> which means picking a colour and painting opaque over it...
<troy_s> (wtf does 'recolorable' do exactly?  ideas?  lol)
<darkmatter> not a clue
<darkmatter> at least no effect that I've ever seen
<troy_s> well that is why i wonder
<troy_s> i like the more rounded buttons in that samui theme though
<troy_s> i will admit to that
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> actually
<troy_s> dark
<darkmatter> hmm
<troy_s> you might want to consider that radius
<troy_s> on that tab
<troy_s> see the frame samples?
<darkmatter> yup
<troy_s> that radius is bloody smooth
<troy_s> (ignore the rest)
<darkmatter> indeed
<troy_s> but the radius on those tabs would probably work very well across all of the various elements.
<troy_s> (on a side note, look at the varying radii in that samui theme -- just be bloody consistent for chrissake)
<darkmatter> I'm actually just doing my own thing atm while trying not to be mac or windows... though the main influence is the little leaked widget shots from leopard, a wee bit of the tango mockups, and nesedah from the etoile project >_>
<darkmatter> but yeah... the radius is nice
<troy_s> there is something to be said regarding that radius and the sort of connotations that Ubuntu carries in a roundabout way
<troy_s> it's not sharp
<darkmatter> http://tango.freedesktop.org/Image:Tango-widgets-mockup-01.png  <--- thats not too shabby
<troy_s> yes exactly
<troy_s> except the double line thing is tripe
<troy_s> that is pretty much what i was thinking minus that godawful inset line and outline heavy approach
<darkmatter> yup
<troy_s> but yes... that radius DOES look good
<darkmatter> another ne I always liked as far as overall design (colour not withstanding) is http://jesseross.com/clients/gnustep/ui/concepts/
<troy_s> i still think the scrollbars and progress bars could be far superior if they avoid the blocky nature
<darkmatter> *one
<troy_s> and turn more to vial tubes styled.
<troy_s> that last one feels all over the board.
<troy_s> and the curves on the tabs are dipsy do sort of s curve shikane racetrack
<troy_s> lol
<darkmatter> yeah... but its gnustep.. ala macish
<darkmatter> :P
<troy_s> i actually think that radius we were looking at for everything regarding buttons is great
<troy_s> except on the bars
<troy_s> (as they are a bit of a different entity)
<troy_s> its why i still cleave towards liking pills
<troy_s> jeebus that guy has OCD
<darkmatter> lol
<darkmatter> yup
<troy_s> once again, forest through the trees.
<troy_s> all those changes are more or less identical.
<troy_s> ssdp
<darkmatter> I know... its sad
<darkmatter> at least my ocd actually varies :P
<troy_s> loooool
<troy_s> anyways, you should pound that thing out so that some folks who could use it can use it sooner rather than later
<troy_s> ocd guy
<troy_s> gg is coming soon
<darkmatter> yup
<troy_s> wher eis that link again?
<troy_s> to the current glory?
<troy_s> (FECK i wish it were easier to account for all the different states and such... grr)
<darkmatter> lol
<nothlit> that tango reminds me of picasa
<darkmatter> http://www.flickr.com/photos/92826085@N00/sets/72157594488098254/
<darkmatter> last pic in the series is the current missmash
<darkmatter> *mishmash
<troy_s> so i take it you are going to dropshadow all the interactive elements
<troy_s> greets nothlit
<darkmatter> troy_s, yup
<troy_s> wehre hte feck is the fullsize button
<troy_s> grr
<darkmatter> the lil magnifying glass thingy
<troy_s> yep... that stepper radius i think would work wonderfully.
<troy_s> STEEPER even
<troy_s> feck
<darkmatter> lol
<nothlit> troy_s: heyas
<nothlit> btw--the svg rendering makes sense for viewing applications--just not for ui
<troy_s> nothlit: Absolutely
<troy_s> nothlit: For everything else, it is just ridiculous.
<troy_s> Although I guess if you zoom in on a pic it is ridiculous too... check out the cheese that image viewer sells in that regard... *sigh*
<troy_s> darkmatter: if you _can_
<troy_s> darkmatter: I would love it if you could keep everything svg native
<darkmatter> I shall try
<troy_s> (and yes, there are a few glitches on that front -- like one pixel shears here and there... but you can figure it out i am pretty certain)
<troy_s> darkmatter: Here is a quesiton
<troy_s> darkmatter: if you say, went for fully rounded buttons ala samui
<troy_s> when you get a big button, is there a way to maintain that perfect circular radius using the border technique?
<darkmatter> not with the initial build (svg goodness).. I just wanna get the finalized look in all its Glory ;)
<darkmatter> hmmm
<darkmatter> not that I can think of
<troy_s> darkmatter: Part of my brain is saying 'duh yes' but hte other part can't figure  it out in terms of the mechanics.
<darkmatter> the border technique kinda blows chunks
<troy_s> well it is a weird bird isn't it...
<darkmatter> yup
<troy_s> as in how the feck do you get left and top
<troy_s> and not
<troy_s> overlap!?
<troy_s> not quite certain on that... or how it is actually working
<darkmatter> brb.. need to throw on a pot of java
<darkmatter> I just say the gtk devs need to take lessons from raster :P
<troy_s> darkmatter: no shit
<troy_s> darkmatter: Although that fucking file manager thing in E17 is ... just ... gawd.
<troy_s> darkmatter: I look at E17 and think salvation, then that fecking file manager pops up and I realize I have fallen into hell.
<darkmatter> loool
<darkmatter> troy_s, thats just a demo app btw
<darkmatter> :P
<troy_s> it fecking better be
<darkmatter> haha
<darkmatter> one thing I love is how fast efs is... and I also love the animations in the file selector
<darkmatter> unlike gnome that sits and grinds away
<troy_s> yep
<nothlit> troy_s: https://people.fluxbuntu.org/~nothlit/communitytheme/gutsy/literature/collaborationprogress.html --do you have any objects/images to add?
<darkmatter> on the fly animated loading of thumbnails and everything, makes even slow loading dir seem to wiz by
<troy_s> darkmatter: But _that_ feckign beast is a theme nightmare
<darkmatter> that the point that gnome devs seem to miss... aesthetics *DO* play a major part in user experience
<troy_s> darkmatter: There is something to be said for class based look definitions
<troy_s> imagine having to define EVERYTHING int eh bloody system augh
<darkmatter> troy_s, yup.. I know.. I've been trying to theme it
<troy_s> nothlit: I like wher eyou are heading with that...
<nothlit> nautilus is such a nightmare in reading the entire dir before responding--and it locks all instances
<troy_s> nothlit: Let me think on it.
<troy_s> darkmatter: And that moving target sucks bollocks
<darkmatter> lol
<troy_s> nothlit: DNA is out of bounds
<troy_s> nothlit: Fedora 6
<troy_s> nothlit: You would drown in the comparison / rip off debate
<darkmatter> nothlit, yup... they should take the e approach to loading, or even the <EEK> LONGHORN </EEK> method
<nothlit> troy_s: it was just a sidenote to help people visualise
<troy_s> nothlit: Ah
<darkmatter> just load on the fly instead of caching everything
<troy_s> nothlit: Obviously that bloody picture of hte painted hands springs to mind.
<darkmatter> and just subtle animate it so it doesnt look like a cat trying to hork up a hairball
<nothlit> I'd <very> much like to avoid all hands and nude people
<troy_s> LOOLLLLL
<nothlit> darkmatter: photo collection managers are <great> in this regard
<darkmatter> nothlit, yup
<darkmatter> to bad filers suck.. umm.. furry grapefruit
<BHSPitMonkey> there's too many photo collection managers on this system
<BHSPitMonkey> f-spot, gthumb, picasa
<nothlit> gthumb doesn't count
<BHSPitMonkey> why not
<nothlit> its not really a manager
<nothlit> more like an overblown viewer
<troy_s> picassa isn't Free is it?
<nothlit> no, but its still free
<nothlit> uses wine to run
<troy_s> nothlit: I thought it was linux native now and in the commercial repos
<nothlit> troy_s: hmm since collaboration got so many votes--think it should be the focus? or more equal
<troy_s> nothlit: I think offering it up as both probably keeps the most creative aspect elements alive.
<troy_s> nothlit: You just never know when you mix bright minds with substance.
<nothlit> troy_s: i've updated the link https://people.fluxbuntu.org/~nothlit/communitytheme/gutsy/literature/collaborationprogress.html --tell me what you think before I put it on the wiki so others can contribute
<troy_s> nothlit: I think that the collaboration mixed with progress is quite a bit different than say, fed 7s
<troy_s> certainly see your point on the progress front though.
<troy_s> as flying does have some sort of strange connection on that front
<troy_s> nothlit: It is pretty wide open... I rather like the idea of the techy motion...
<troy_s> meatballhat had an interesting idea regarding something evolving from a blueprint (if I haven't butchered it too much)
<troy_s> that sort of (probably cliched) wireframe / blueprint to reality motif
<nothlit> Do you think the community can handle doing techy without that harshness and sense of disconnect?
<nothlit> We'd have to highlight individual parts/contributions somehow, expose the underworkings and strip away smooth exteriors
<troy_s> nothlit: Probably not, but
<troy_s> nothlit: I doubt we will get anywhere constantly underestimating
<troy_s> nothlit: I think it is safe to provide an 'open forum' for submission
<troy_s> then if it doesn't quite brew up in terms of quality
<troy_s> do a boil down and reduce to a limited set and offer it up for redo
<troy_s> worst case, some solo figure ends up reworking it such that it works on a decent level.
<troy_s> but i actually think that there is the talent out there, they just tend to not get interested until it is a little late.
<troy_s> it MIGHT be nice to see what a core can do say, given a restricted palette etc.
<troy_s> ok must sleep
<troy_s> out
<nothlit> The thing is with tech its hard to stay away from those overused blues--although i suppose we could go will blue-greys
<nothlit> kk ttyl
<troy_s> on a side note
<troy_s> WHAT THE FUCK IS UP WITH THAT SHITTY FONT AT UB.COM?
<troy_s> jesus
<troy_s> where are the typesetters when you need them
<troy_s> feck me that is brutal
<troy_s> mixed in with that walmart photo
<troy_s> UGGGH
<troy_s> jesus
<nothlit> ub.com?
<Madpilot> nothlit, I think troy_s was complaining about the fonts on ubuntu.com? Given that those are set by browsers, if he's seeing ugly fonts it's because that's what is on his system...
<nothlit> embedded fonts for the win--i think we're going to see a lot more of than when mini svg becomes more implemented
<Madpilot> nothlit, you mean in 2015, when IE8 finally comes out with minimal SVG support? :P
<nothlit> well i'm guessing if microsoft doesn't step up--people will realise they are in a severely compromised web experience
<nothlit> people don't care about security
<Madpilot> meh. Far too many people think Internet Explorer = The Internet
<nothlit> but they
<nothlit> 'll care about fugly founds and not using their clicky web applications
<nothlit> fonts*
<darkmatter> troy_s, http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=492236366&context=set-72157594488098254&size=o <--- we have the buttons ;)
<darkmatter> nothlit, click that link. want opinions on the pressed state of the buttons ;)
<nothlit> darkmatter: its odd that it looks so flat
<nothlit> i mean it doesn't have be the exact reverse but i don't feel that curve
<darkmatter> yeah... theres a grad in there.. but its drawing odd in the ui
<nothlit> do you have two sources of light or is that reflected light in the buttons?
<lapo> hi
<troy_s> nothlit: Actually I was talking about the font in that ass ugly png at the top of Ubuntu dot com
<darkmatter> troy_s, http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=492640772&size=o ignore the progressbars.. was playing. also ignore the graphical glitches in the tabs.. still need to do some debugging)
<darkmatter> but how them buttons lookin'?
<troy_s> woop an update
<troy_s> hold on
<troy_s> did you shrink the drop or am i delusional?
<troy_s> oh i see some drop on the toggles now too... should probably have some shade down that left side to keep upper left lighting in place
<troy_s> and probably lose the outer drop (as it is supposed to be reflective of a depressed state?)
<troy_s> darkmatter: Woop... tabs are getting dropped
<troy_s> darkmatter: Like that...
<troy_s> darkmatter: I would also probably carry the drop along from the tab _over_ the under tabs
<troy_s> (if that is even possible... now that i think about it... lol)
<darkmatter> troy_s, thats the plane, once I debug the gaps and match up the outlines
<troy_s> oh yeah i see now
<troy_s> cool...
<darkmatter> the tabs will have shadows matching the notebook
<troy_s> i am really liking the 3d element actually
<darkmatter> so the right tab has a right and bottom shadow, etc
<troy_s> yeah
<troy_s> darkmatter: Have you tried a grad on the button stroke?
<troy_s> darkmatter: Lighter to darker for example?
<troy_s> in fact, you could almost try a grad on the diagonal
<darkmatter> just filling the gaps is kinda tricky with that shadow
<troy_s> ?
<darkmatter> troy_s, yup.. actually, there is a grad... I was just tired and did it tolight
<darkmatter> the tabs
<troy_s> filling the gaps on the fecking tabs eh?
<troy_s> i see...
<troy_s> its a bugger as the tabs are so complicated in terms of construction via pixmap
<darkmatter> the gap between notebook and tab on the shadow sides
<darkmatter> yup
<troy_s> yeah
<darkmatter> you can see the grove where they meet on the right and bottom tab
<troy_s> darkmatter: On the deactivated buttons
<troy_s> the inactives
<troy_s> it would probably be logical to drop the drop on those too...
<troy_s> as they aren't really clickable
<troy_s> hence they can afford to lose their 3d
<troy_s> (the inactives all around look pretty damn solid really)
<darkmatter> troy_s, yeah.. I was going to go for a flat look on those
<darkmatter> the inactives are still the old mlky ones
<darkmatter> *milky
<troy_s> i totally think it makes logical sense...
<troy_s> as the 3d implies 'interact with me'
<troy_s> and the flat in conjunction with the nerfed tones
<troy_s> is very 'sorry you are out of luck'
<darkmatter> yup
<troy_s> if you manage to embrace that across _all_ of the elements, i think it will really elevate it.
<troy_s> and the diffuse highlight on the buttons is certainly infinitely better than that crap bloody swoopy gloss that is everywehre at the moment.
<troy_s> actually, i wonder if that shoudl perhaps show a little more upper left light shape
<darkmatter> yeah.. actually I was thinking of doing that to all the active elements.. have the upper left corner and a small grad on the left top to give it more of a sheen
<darkmatter> troy_s, its too bad that tiling sucks with range. I was wanting to give those a meter look
<troy_s> darkmatter: Yeah very much like you have with the diffuse highlight
<troy_s> but shape them more from that upper left corner
<darkmatter> yup
<darkmatter> I was going to use a subtle grad on the menus... but since I'm using perforated menu lines I can't.. the only way to do those lines is to tile the image, and a trans background doesnt tile without leaving fugly artifacts (as in technicolor static)
<darkmatter> the terrors of the pixmap engine
<troy_s> darkmatter: Try svg
<troy_s> darkmatter: I swear the SVG raws seem to generate different looks
<darkmatter> I'll give it a shot
<troy_s> elkbuntu: Any uds updates?
<troy_s> elkbuntu: Anything intresting?
<troy_s> darkmatter: Progress?
<darkmatter> http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=492727796&context=set-72157594488098254&size=o
<darkmatter> just small progress, was havin dindin with the family
<elkbuntu> troy_s, you should try come to a UDS one day. there's *always* something interesting going on
<troy_s> elkbuntu: I've been to one.
<troy_s> elkbuntu: Not really my cup of tea really...
<lapo> hi
<darkmatter> agood afternoon lapo
<lapo> ciao darkmatter
<darkmatter> dang. rendering bug with the text focus in xchat.. grrrr
<darkmatter> damn. pixmap.engine
<lapo> darkmatter: do you really really really need to use that engine?
<darkmatter> lapo... only for the prototype.. once its done I'll be coding some cairo love
<darkmatter> I just use the pixmap engin to work out design elements. its easier than repeatedly compiling and installing
<troy_s> lapo: Pixmap is the best engine there is
<troy_s> lapo: For getting the end result... and it isn't slow at all any more.
<troy_s> lapo: Otherwise you are stuck with shitty engines like murrine or whatever.
<lapo> troy_s: pixmap is a problem not an engine :-)
<troy_s> lapo: I disagree... look at gnome look if you need more proof that the engines are ... blah.  dborg's lua has promise
<lapo> that's a cool one
<lapo> pixmap is well mostly unmaintained and has bugs
<troy_s> might have bugs, but it is the ONLY way to design gtk
<troy_s> the rest is code and that is unsatisfactory
<darkmatter> aurora is a nasty engine... not only slow but has buggy redraw in naughtylust
<darkmatter> it like... paints bg_normal allover when dragging files
<darkmatter> just. eew
<darkmatter> once lua's mature we need a theme studio. basically draw the widgets in studio and dynamically it would generate the code
<troy_s> darkmatter: Woop that would rokc.
<darkmatter> I was kinda planning something like that a while back as part of glory
<darkmatter> all it would need is a standardized rc format
<darkmatter> instead of the crap most themes ship with
<darkmatter> it would kinda be almost like a glade/inkscape fusion. the preview would also be the workspace,  you could drag handles etc to adjust padding
<darkmatter> set colors, gradients, etc. then export the rc when done
<troy_s> darkmatter: If you get a chance I would love a tarball to start testing against different colours.
<darkmatter> ok... once I finish up the rest of the basic widgets
<darkmatter> I'm not going to bother with to many bug or padding fixes atm.. my main concern is just getting full widget coverage
<darkmatter> I can fine tune later
<troy_s> woot
<troy_s> that's the spirit
<troy_s> 80 / 20!
<troy_s> ftw
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-05-11
<darkmatter> troy_s, http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=493011899&context=set-72157594488098254&size=o <--- which menu do you prefer?
<troy_s> darkmatter: Either if you put a gradient on the base flatbox
<troy_s> or something...
<troy_s> the spherecrystal theme does that, and it is quite pretty albeit very heavy handed
<troy_s> darkmatter: In 20 seconds I could not tell those two apart lol
<darkmatter> lol
<troy_s> ah the dots
<troy_s> darkmatter: Ok... lines
<darkmatter> k
<troy_s> lines are a little more crisp
<troy_s> sharp
<troy_s> the dots are making me want to go rip apart sheets of lottery tickets
<darkmatter> hehe
<troy_s> darkmatter: Are my eyes completely going bonkers
<troy_s> darkmatter: Is there a 3d shape to that menu?
<troy_s> darkmatter: Or is it the byproduct of the edging causing my eye to correct and create those illusiory shadows
<darkmatter> it took a bit to get the bleed right in the highlight
<darkmatter> yup
<troy_s> darkmatter: Yup what?
<troy_s> darkmatter: I'm on crack or its there?
<darkmatter> its got 3d, and a kinda flat-3d bleed on the blue
<troy_s> on the blue yes... but not on the flatbox base
<troy_s> correct?
<troy_s> you have seen the grad on spherecrystal i am sure yes?
<darkmatter> yup... the pixmap is 3d with a slight grad
<darkmatter> aye
<troy_s> it also does a rounding on the inset, which is quite alright.
<troy_s> the gradient on the menus is probably the strongest elements of that theme
<darkmatter> ate
<lapo> seen this http://www.redhat.com/promo/fonts/ ?
<troy_s> wtf is a gpl exception license?
<troy_s> lapo: That bodes immensely well -- fonts are a wonderful thing to get growing
<troy_s> darkmatter: Get that fecking thing out the bloody door please
<troy_s> darkmatter: GTK is driving me bonkers... and I have changed the two elements that I personally require
<darkmatter> I'm trying.. trust me... got it figured.. just throwing together the base pixmaps
<troy_s> (still need progress bar fancification but I am not doing that until i have an alpha glory as a base...)
<troy_s> darkmatter: Can you bzr it too so that I can at least keep current
<troy_s> and merge?
<darkmatter> yeah.. I'll have to install bzr (clean install here) and import all me crappieez
<troy_s> darkmatter: You know you can force a bzr write
<darkmatter> yup
<troy_s> darkmatter: So just do a forced overwrite to avoid the need to pull and merge and shit
<troy_s> darkmatter: Further, I can probably fix some of the major gongs like tab tears etc.
<darkmatter> yup
<troy_s> darkmatter: And push a branch to help out.
<melaren> Hello everyone, I had a couple of ideas I wanted to run past you guys...
<melaren> I contacted Frank Schoep regarding one of his blueprint specs for "wide-theme-switcher", but he isn't currently working on the project.
<melaren> It seems to me that there is a lot of work being done on the various flavors of Ubuntu that could be shared. For example, the Kubuntu and Xubuntu backgrounds could be a selectable option by default in Ubuntu. Of course, if this was the case, we would also need the GDM, Splash, etc., to change to create a unified theme. Ideally it would be nice for each flavor have a completely different color scheme. So let's say Ubuntu stays brown, Kubuntu
<melaren> Currently there isn't much diversity in the default theme selection. ...there are four blue themes in Feisty, despite users calling blue "clich" for operating systems. It would also be nice to see one or two relatively neutral photos as selectable wallpaper. I recently tried the live Sabayon Distro. The photo wallpaper was striking. ...the rest of the artwork, not so much. It would be nice for Ubuntu users to have high quality photo wal
<melaren> ...looking at the release of Uuntu Sudio, it would also be nice to share that system-wide theme with the regular Ubuntu release
<troy_s> melaren: Hello
<melaren> Hey :)
<troy_s> melaren: Generally photos don't work well
<troy_s> melaren: From a contrast point of view
<wedderburn> melaren: the one for ubuntu studio will be in the ubuntu repo's by gutsy or it should be
<troy_s> melaren: We don't have too much say as to what goes where, and frank has left the ubuntu scene
<melaren> ok
<melaren> yeah, that's what he said
<troy_s> melaren: And if you want the uS theme, you can add the repo from the site.
<troy_s> melaren: If you want better design and such, complain to sabdfl.
<troy_s> melaren: And tell your friends to.
<wedderburn> LOL
<troy_s> melaren: The more the merrier.
<melaren> Ok
<troy_s> in fact, if you really want to have an impact
<melaren> what do you think about sharing the work being done between the flavors?
<troy_s> formulate a nicely phrased standard email and have it forwarded to all of the relative folks at canonical.
<melaren> ...kubuntu, xubuntu, ubuntu studio
<troy_s> melaren: I think it is an option.  I would say it is probably secondary to getting Ubuntu's design pattern actually with a heartbeat
<troy_s> melaren: And if anyone asks you who told you... just say wedderburn said so.
<melaren> yeah
<melaren> lol
<wedderburn> :O
<troy_s> melaren: Seriously though, I am quite passionate about ubuntu's design as in it is sub satisfactory for a microsecond where it actually has the momentum to really make a difference.
<wedderburn> and if anyone asks say havoc said so
<melaren> yeah
<troy_s> melaren: So the more attention it gets (and not of the silly 'brown sux' or whatever variety) the better.
<melaren> Well, we already have selectable themes, but they are really just Ok
<troy_s> they are ...
<melaren> the new gloss one is decent
<wedderburn> brown doesn't suck its just bland the way they've done it
<melaren> yeah
<troy_s> wedderburn: Agree... monochromatic brown
<wedderburn> i loved some of the edgy art
<melaren> It looks good until I use a different theme
<wedderburn> it had greens and all in it
<melaren> then I'm like, "hmm"
<wedderburn> the icons are a mess when you mix them in wiht all the tango ones
<melaren> yeah
<melaren> Ok, so I'm looking at the theme preferences and I'm thinking "we could have a better default selection"   ...without trying too hard
<melaren> I haven't installed ubuntu studio yet, but looking at the screenshots, it looks quite respectable
<melaren> I'm just trying to get a feel for what you guys think...  ...because I'll work on a proposal for the "higher-ups" if I get decent feedback from people who have some experience in the community (more than I do).  There are plenty of people with ideas, many of the ideas are terrible, I'm just trying to ensure that mine isn't one of them...
<troy_s> wedderburn: wellt he main problem is that tango's belief is that they are usable
<troy_s> and icons are at least as big an aesthetic as anything else
<melaren> true
<troy_s> melaren: You will get a thousand different opinions from a thousand different folks
<melaren> hehe, true
<wedderburn> personally i would like a green desktop
<wedderburn> greens great you can mix it with brown and blue
<troy_s> melaren: You would need to build your case from a very researched and respectable point of view.
<troy_s> melaren: in the end, hire a real designer.
<troy_s> melaren: If you are going to spend any money, hire the real deal.
<melaren> well all I'm proposing is that we try to utilize the work that is already being done.  ...so making the ubuntu studio theme w/icons & background a selectable option by default.  ...in place of one of the lousy selectable themes currently in Theme Preferences like, "Crux" or "High Contrast"
<melaren> ...and green would be great, but it doesn't look like Ubuntu is going to change any time soon.   ...they may consider changing the Xubuntu color scheme
<troy_s> melaren: The work that is done is weak
<troy_s> if you are meaning borrowing from x or k
<troy_s> its the same homogenized blah mess
<wedderburn> melaren: the desktops been the same for ages, we need to change it :P
<melaren> I think if work was borrowed from x, x would need a color theme change (preferably to green).  This is what I was thinking...  ...If x, k, and projects like ubuntu studio all have different color schemes; and the artwork is respectable, it would be cool to have those themes (along with wallpaper, etc) as a selectable option.  This way a Ubuntu user would have a Brown theme (default), and an option to select a green (x), blue (k), and black theme (u
<troy_s> melaren: You could do a 1000000 different releases with distinct motifs with brown as a base
<troy_s> melaren: The downside is that we dont have any bloody one who knows what a motif is.
<nothlit> i'd hope theres one or two :P
<troy_s> melaren: So unfortunately, it will take Diana over at Fedora to embarass us
<troy_s> melaren: Before the billion dollar man admits that perhaps, just maybe, just possibly, there are people out there who have a better idea about design than he does.
<troy_s> nothlit: Seriously nothlit -- you are the exception
<troy_s> nothlit: I pushed motifs at the paris uds for god knows how long
<troy_s> how hard
<troy_s> etc.
<troy_s> _no_ clue
<melaren> ok ok
<troy_s> its a big hole
<melaren> yeah, fedora is very nice looking
<melaren> ..I don't remember what the icons look like
<nothlit> anyways =/ ubuntustudio is supposed to be distinct--theres no reason users can't use that look, but its a horrible idea to provide different color schemes like that--horrible dilution of identity and message--and theres plenty of themes out there people can use
<melaren> Yeah I kinda thought about that... ...it's a branding thing at this point
<melaren> ...Ubuntu is the "brown" operating system
<nothlit> but in terms of colorisation--theres a gnome color chooser that edits the gtkrc, you may like that
<troy_s> melaren: Branding is ONLY effective if it bears a communicative message.
<melaren> true true
<melaren> ....but at this point it would probably be odd to switch from brown
<troy_s> there is _nothing_ wrong with brown
<melaren> ...even though I would support such a decision
<troy_s> brown works
<troy_s> has worked since 3000 bc
<troy_s> always will work
<melaren> haha
<troy_s> lock it in with context
<troy_s> message
<wedderburn> i liked how they made things more orange feels warmer
<troy_s> and audience
<wedderburn> and thats what a new os should be
<wedderburn> warm fuzzy feel safe
<melaren> yeah, orange was nice
<nothlit> a single color doesn't make a mood
<melaren> I thought it would be cool if they kept transitioning the color
<nothlit> its a selection, used appropriately
<melaren> Ok, thanks for the conversation guys.  I appreciate the feedback.
<BHSPitMonkey> I liked the orange color palette
<BHSPitMonkey> until I got sick of it.
<troy_s> nothlit: AMEN
<troy_s> nothlit hit the nail on the head.  it is _all_ fundamentally about communication, and communication entails more than a single letter to build a word.
<nothlit> ooh, a thousand self portraits in a thousand days http://www.conceptart.org/artist/andrew-jones/images/1000_sp/1000_sp_2500x4400.jpg
<nothlit> troy_s: do you get how this schedule works for us? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess#head-c9d177822a71b90ec5fb703ed0d0f30eeb8fc1db --i don't get how much versioning applies to a targetted distro and release specific artwork package
<nothlit> troy_s: we have to make it in before new packages freeze--but then how does revision work-- usually versioning can't change and only bug fixes--but does that mean we can't change anything except touchups or what?
<nothlit> troy_s: or does it not apply
<troy_s> nothlit: Sorry... reading.
<troy_s> nothlit: Was busy... give me a moment
<nothlit> np
<troy_s> nothlit: Yes...
<nothlit> irc works great on delay too :)
<troy_s> nothlit: If you are out on non Ubuntu main stuffs
<troy_s> you can avoid feature freeze etc.
<troy_s> nothlit: As for artwork, I think the idea is more along the lines of 'open' as it isn't really a formalized process in terms of art and design.
<troy_s> nothlit: One area you COULD argue similarities between would be something like GDM
<nothlit> i was just wondering how much revision we can do before hard freeze
<troy_s> nothlit: I would assume that if you made it to the freeze, your GDM code should probably be the same, etc.
<nothlit> because its not like software where version changes can break things
<nothlit> and its specific to ubuntu, and for that release
<nothlit> ahh kk
<wedderburn> troy_s: you know whats brown and everyone loves, coffee, ubuntu should pay homage to the caffeine gods the coffee bean in the form of art :-p
* nothlit winces at all the single nonspecific colour connotations
<troy_s> wedderburn: You obviously were not watching the mailing list re your last comment :)
<wedderburn> troy_s: mailing list?
<wedderburn> link us
<troy_s> let me see...
<troy_s> you can start with the colour thread...
<troy_s> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2007-April/thread.html
<wedderburn> troy_s: i thought it was something good, i read the colour thing ppl talking about colours been bad because of different culters
<troy_s> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2007-April/003873.html -- last paragraph
<troy_s> wedderburn: Pretty much exactly your thinking.
<wedderburn> haha
<wedderburn> cool
<wedderburn> troy_s: i didn't see this though
<wedderburn> troy_s: kinda went though the first lot and went meh
<troy_s> wedderburn: It is mostly meh
<troy_s> wedderburn: Mostly people piping off about their opinions, their beliefs etc.
<troy_s> wedderburn: Very very very very few actually trying to site the research and study in the area.
<wedderburn> but i mean
<troy_s> wedderburn: Go ask a professional psychologist about color psychology :)
<wedderburn> you got foam you got coffee you got beans you got coffee berries
<wedderburn> so many colours all organic
<troy_s> wedderburn: I tried to do a little of both -- 1 dismiss the garbage about brown, and 2 provide real world examples of companies that have used brown as a _base_ colour and hit billion dollar sales.
<troy_s> wedderburn: absolutely
<troy_s> wedderburn: you have a limited palette all supporting that brown base.
<troy_s> wedderburn: look to adidas for some of that too...
<troy_s> wedderburn: in fact, i just saw a shoe add with grunge (it is popping up everywhere now sigh)
<troy_s> brown base.
<troy_s> hell... its even in shiny car advertisements... yet again hitting on contemporary design trends.
<troy_s> guess where it will end up next?
<troy_s> wedderburn: I think the biggest problem of all with Ubuntu is that things are tried ONCE, and based on (generally poor) execution, the ideas are tossed out as 'not working'
<troy_s> which isn't really the most productive way to try something...
<troy_s> rather like Apple trying to make an early version of the iPod with a 3.5 inch hard disk, finding out that it isn't successful with the focus groups, then quitting.
<wedderburn> indeed
<troy_s> darkmatter: !
<darkmatter> troy_s, !
<troy_s> darkmatter: You know the question so just cut to the answer.
<darkmatter> the answer is no?
<darkmatter> was way to busy yesterday.. but will have most of the weekend to myself to play
<troy_s> Okie.
<troy_s> darkmatter: Again, when you THINK you have hit on all the bases -- alpha or otherwise -- please push.
<darkmatter> yup
<troy_s> darkmatter: As the sooner I can get a feel for what needs twiddles the easier on my end.
<troy_s> darkmatter: Is there any chance you can put up what you have now?
<troy_s> darkmatter: I want to pull some screenshots
<troy_s> darkmatter: And the bloody lack of attention GTK has currently is boning me.
<BHSPitMonkey> I'm really not sure what it would be like to be boned by a lack...
<troy_s> darkmatter: What is that panel control you using in your screenshots?
<troy_s> darkmatter: Have you tried gimmie?
<darkmatter> troy_s, gimmie is to clicky and fugly, though its a decent conept, the executions off
<troy_s> fugly for certain
<darkmatter> as for what I use
<troy_s> beyond fugly
<darkmatter> gnome-main-menu
<darkmatter> version 2
<darkmatter> :P
<troy_s> i am looking for something more mainstream in terms of presentation
<troy_s> ?
<troy_s> where is that?
<darkmatter> gnome svn
<darkmatter> gnome-main-menu/brances/versio-2
<darkmatter> *version
<darkmatter> *branches
<troy_s> are there screenshots for it around?
<darkmatter> not many screenies of version 2 cept mine ;)
<darkmatter> http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=484184032&size=o
<troy_s> well thats a helluva stepup from the crap that we have now
<troy_s> darkmatter: Now to just blow the bloody panel out entirely.
<troy_s> grr.
<darkmatter> lol
<troy_s> well... maybe make it a little less panel like
<troy_s> less circa 1989
<troy_s> _something_?
<darkmatter> well, once glory is done I'm tossing together a few quick mockups to peak interest in my next project. basically a hybrid first class ui thing
<darkmatter> the "panel" is more of a shelf really. has a hybrid mode that uses thumbnails for task switches.. purebred is much more complicated
<darkmatter> but both are tied into a "library"
<darkmatter> I'd go into the details, but it'd take to long
<darkmatter> but as others can attest to... no menus, or panels to be seen ;)
<darkmatter> except in hybrid, for those who cant live without a "startbutton"
<troy_s> its good to have the interface boil down to a singular
<darkmatter> I've pages and pages notes on it
<troy_s> (strictly speaking in terms of a casual computer user)
<darkmatter> basically it would need a core lib for the library.. the ui would be kinda universal
<darkmatter> so you would have access to everything from a single point, yet in an uncomplicated.. as hig as an allinone shopping center can get
<darkmatter> so.. if you went to "music", that page of the library would have playback controls, etc
<troy_s> hig is shit
<darkmatter> basically the idea is to create a data management tool that is first class (as in abstracts the application shit n puts the data first)
<troy_s> and it is the furthest thing from all in one that i could describe
<darkmatter> makes use of the new core technologies like libburn n telepathy etc
<darkmatter> but, i digress. example
<troy_s> hrm... libburn?
<darkmatter> you have a "gossip" or "blab" or "contacts" whatever page in the library
<darkmatter> libburns the new framework for cd/dvd authoring
<darkmatter> so you open that page, it has a list of the contacts, basic info, links for addy's n im accounts, online statuse etc
<darkmatter> clicking an addy would open a blank document (basically evo or tbird or whatevers composition window, but just kinda bypassing the whole launch application thingy)
<darkmatter> troy_s, or, another example.. basically, the ui "shelf" is a glorified notification center.. akin to a sock ticker on steroids.. but more useful, you can almost look at it like desktop widgets or gadgets too, but thats not really the best analogy
<darkmatter> but anyway... on to the example
<darkmatter> say your boss needs a  presentation finished. job falls to you
<darkmatter> deadlines friday, you start the presentation, have other work to do, so save it n set a reminder for wednesday (basically could have a remind me feature in the office ui or just in the library, whatever)
<darkmatter> so, wednesday at xxx time rolls around
<darkmatter> a reminder appears in the shelf "finish presentation for stupi..."
<darkmatter> clicky the reminder would open the document directly
<darkmatter> or you could right click it, a tile pops up gives you other options
<darkmatter> to dismiss it, delay it, whatever
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-05-12
<robertj> hey all, does anyone else feel that the battery icon looks good but is actually kinda hard to distinguish between the 40% & 20% demarcations?
<troy_s> robertj: Probably.  A good thing to talk about in tango, as I think Human falls back to that for the battery icon.
<robertj> troy_s: I don't think so, it changes on mine, and in fact is even more difficult
<troy_s> robertj: Look in /usr/share/icons/Human and see if you can find it, if not, it is a Tango icon.
<troy_s> robertj: and then it becomes a tango issue.
<troy_s> robertj: And you can always find the SVG, subtly modify it, and hope that it gets accepted.
<robertj> troy_s: I don't see it in there but it changes when I change icon theme between human and tango
<robertj> ahh apps/gpm-blah
<troy_s> robertj: Ok
<troy_s> robertj: So it is a human icon?
<robertj> yes
<troy_s> robertj: Head into the /scalable section and see if you can track it down in SVG format
<robertj> Human/22x22/apps
<troy_s> robertj: From there, see if you can modify the svg colours a bit that might make it more useful.
<troy_s> robertj: All you can do is try... sometimes one person's belief is a little different than anothers... and without a solid design direction, it is a relatively fickle choice.
<robertj> troy_s: no batteries in scalable
<robertj> troy_s: i'm also on a pretty high dpi display
<robertj> 1680x1050 on 15"
<troy_s> robertj: Well that is a bloody bug... Canonical needs to get their shit together and get the fecking svg's out of IconFactory.
<robertj> troy_s: what is that thing inside the battery when it is charging anyway?
<robertj> it looks like a small tree perhaps
<robertj> but at 22x22 it is hard to tell
<troy_s> robertj: I can't really begin to discuss the bloody difficulties with design for a project such as Ubuntu, but I would possibly consider registering a bug.
<troy_s> robertj: It seems the only attention is given to bugs.
<robertj> troy_s: I think the real deal is that the pixmaps < 32px, yellow isn't high enough contrast to show up well and so the whole thing needs to me more or less monochrome with a shade that matches the NetworkManager applet
<dilomo> :/topic #ubuntu-artwork
<dilomo> Hello
<dilomo> hi everybody
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-05-13
<coz_> wow this is the least number of individuals I have seen logged on here!
<troy_s> darkmatter: Ping
<darkmatter> yo'
<troy_s> darkmatter: Any progress?
<darkmatter> lol.. barely.. been running errands for every tom, dick, and harry since yesterday. but am going to try a quick finish of the basics now... not much left as far as a beta goes.. just the sliders and lisview and check/radio and a few smallish tweaks
<troy_s> darkmatter: Beta is good.
<troy_s> darkmatter: Beta is very good.
<troy_s> darkmatter: Seeing as how I intend to make a few minor tweaks, are you cool with that?
<troy_s> (and by minor i mean the pills in the scrollbars and something akin to that for the progressbars.)
<darkmatter> sure
<darkmatter> I'll probably go a little more pill like with some of the widgets in a later build
<darkmatter> for now I'm just slapping stuff together
<darkmatter> there's some evil bugs with the gtkrc. but I'm not bothering on fixing them, as I'm working on a new rc anyway
<troy_s> darkmatter: Great.  It's getting close to a packaging push so that's why I am curious.
<darkmatter> right now I'm just fixing the radius on the text shadows and crap, and adjusting the colors. a lot of the old widgets are being reused, just tweaked, which is nice
<darkmatter> saves me the trouble of having to completely redo everything
<troy_s> yep
<troy_s> that's the point, get it out the door.
<darkmatter> going to 'attempt' slightly rounded tooltips with a nice gradient. round is kinda easy to pull off if you use compiz or beryl. the shadows create the illusion of rounded corners when used in conjunction with the pixmap
<darkmatter> dunno if it'll work as well with straight metashitty though
<troy_s> they is square
<troy_s> the best 'cheat' i have seen is that slightly inset (1 pixel from edge) ring around them
<troy_s> (again i htink it is spherecrystal that doe sthat)
<darkmatter> yeah.. I do a 2 pix curve, and color the tooltip bg (not the pixmap overlay) to match as close to the shadow closest to tooltip
<darkmatter> it works well enough. but until gtk supports proper transparency for the bg its as good as one can get
<troy_s> darkmatter: Don't konw if you are interested, but LogoLounge released their 2007 summary
<troy_s> http://www.logolounge.com/articles/default.asp?ArticleID=540
<darkmatter> looking
<darkmatter> cool
<darkmatter> http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=471795155&size=o <--- finally. a decent theme for qt. still a bit to snapple with the grads n stuff
<darkmatter> but better than the usual glossy web2.0 plastik crap
<troy_s> amen
<troy_s> "Gloss for glosses sake!
<darkmatter> lol
<darkmatter> hey, troy_s are you any good with firefox css?
<darkmatter> one I get a basic beta done, I need someone who actually is *good* at making form widgets to build me a matching set ;)
<darkmatter> troy_s, ping
<troy_s> darkmatter: Negative.
<troy_s> darkmatter: Or are you talking about strictly theming firefox.
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-05-05
<DanaG> random:  http://www.gnome-look.org/content/preview.php?preview=2&id=76486&file1=76486-1.png&file2=76486-2.png&file3=76486-3.png&name=Excelsior+(Engine)
<coz_> good day all
<coz_> good day all
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-05-06
<fidesu> holas
<fidesu> in this page talk in spanish?
<alin_CN> just a Hello~
<_MMA_> alin_CN: From #ubuntustudio: What kind of encoder? What are you trying to do?
<alin_CN> I have a *.ogg 1280x800 file, I want to turn it into 800x600...
<alin_CN> I just konw few english words -__-||
<_MMA_> alin_CN: Look at: http://www.videohelp.com/tools/sections/linux-video-tools
<_MMA_> alin_CN: What's your native language?
<alin_CN> Thank you.
<alin_CN> I spoken chinese~~--CN
<_MMA_> alin_CN: Ok. Sorry. That's a rare language around here. :(
<_MMA_> I wish I could help more.
<alin_CN> I does not matter, I can understand English, just reading, not speaking
<alin_CN> hehe
<alin_CN> It..no I..
<alin_CN> Thank, the link you give me is very userful for me^_^
<DShepherd> is the ubuntu-artwork team responsible for the notification icons for tracker?
 * DanaG â¥ Nodoka engine -- it's nice and not-glossy.
<DanaG> Fedora's .gtkrc sucks, but the engine looks nice.  I wish I had a gtkrc to make Murrine look like it, though -- since it supposedly can be made to look the same.
<DanaG> s/supposed/apparently/
<DanaG> oops, 'apparentlyly'
<repete> kwwii: hey, dude.
<repete> kwwii: ping me when you get a chance
<kwwii> repete: hey man
<_MMA_> DanaG: SInce Cimi's here you might want to talk to him to see how to make Murrine look like ï»¿Nodoka.
<DShepherd> nice new download icon!
<DShepherd> download = updater notification icon
<DanaG> Oh yeah, I'm back now.
<DanaG> Tue May  6 10:17:14 PDT 2008
<DanaG> Cimi: How would I go about making the Murrine engine look like the 'Nodoka' theme?  ( as in this screenshot: www.csc.calpoly.edu/~dgoyette/screenshot-orange-nodoka.png )
<Cimi> DanaG, you can get a similar look
<Cimi> but not the same
<DanaG> aah.
<DanaG> I like the way that looks -- it's nice and not-glossy.  The name also reminds me of a particular character (in fact, that's most of what you get if you google for just 'nodoka' without also 'gtk')
<Cimi> DanaG, with the murrine provided with hardy you can get a similar look by adding hilight_ratio = 0.909090 in your gtkrc
<DanaG> I'll try that right now.
<DanaG> Oh, I'm trying it with the human-murrine theme right now.
<DanaG> Looks good, but not quite the same.
<Cimi> yeah
<Cimi> with the next release it will be much more similar (except the ugly scrollbars copied from mac) and you will need to add just style = NODOKA
<DanaG> Oh yeah, I think I've compiled the svn Murrine; where does that STYLE= go?
<DanaG> Heh, I had never really thought about the scrollbars; they look like a cross between OS X and a band-aid.
<DanaG> oh, likely in engine murrine{  .... }
<Cimi> DanaG, where did you get the info to compile the svn version?
<Cimi> I don't want testers
<DanaG> I don't remember where, actually.
<_MMA_> Cimi: Why not?
<_MMA_> DanaG: You have that address handy?
<Cimi> _MMA_, since people will complain about *oh shit how I can enable transparency?*
<Cimi> and I don't have the time for them
<DanaG> I just did this:  http://www.google.com/search?q=svn+murrine
<_MMA_> Cimi: Well, I guess that's the risk you run with open-source projects.
<_MMA_> Cimi: Will you have an actual release ready any time soon?
<Cimi> _MMA_, I'm still searching for some donations :)
<DanaG> Hmm, "style = NODOKA" just made everything flat, for me.
<Cimi> I can't work on it now
<DanaG> And still glossy.
<_MMA_> Cimi: SO you're holding the release ransom 'till you get paid?
<Cimi> no
<DanaG> Sounds more like, won't have time to work on it unless get gets donations.
<Cimi> the release will follow some rgba patches
<DanaG> s/get/he/
<Cimi> DanaG, I need to work more on it
<Cimi> but the code is quite complete
<_MMA_> Cimi: I see. Maybe call for others to help if you don't have the time.
<Cimi> _MMA_, not for the engine
<Cimi> maybe for the configurator
<DanaG> Looks like some people have figured out the transparency:  http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Compiz-Fusion+Dark+Live+CD+Murrina?content=78513
<_MMA_> So what needs work? The engine or ï»¿configurator?
<DanaG> Heh, I think the Nodoka scrollbars would look fine if it weren't for the dimply thing in the center.
<Cimi> donations and release are indepentent
<Cimi> I will release when it is done
<Cimi> mine is free software not payware/shareware
<_MMA_> Cimi: Sure but ï»¿what needs more work? The engine or ï»¿configurator?
<Cimi> configurator and gtk patches
<Cimi> murrine is totally stable
<Cimi> needs 1 day of full work
<Cimi> I need donations to buy a cheap laptop, I have just a pc @ home
<_MMA_> Ok. So what ï»¿language is the ï»¿configurator written in?
<Cimi> _MMA_, there's a project on launchpad
<Cimi> pygtk
<_MMA_> Ok. I'll have a friend look over it. Please link in here to the project page.
<Cimi> https://code.launchpad.net/~gtkconf/murrine/murrine-configurator
 * _MMA_ looks.
<DanaG> Oh yeah, one tweak it needs: look for anything with "Murrin" instead of just "^Murrina"
<_MMA_> Cimi: Looks like it's a fairly active project.
<Cimi> _MMA_, less than one commit per month
<_MMA_> Cimi: Oh sorry. I read the times wrong.
 * _MMA_ pulls branch.
<_MMA_> Cimi: What .py runs the app?
<Cimi> don't know
<Cimi> the code is not mine
<_MMA_> ok
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-05-07
<_MMA_> troy_s: Have you looked through http://registry.gimp.org? There's some really slick stuff there.
<_MMA_> err... http://registry.gimp.org
<BHSPitMonkey> over 900 downloads for my grub splash
<BHSPitMonkey> dang I'm good
<DanaG> Where?
<BHSPitMonkey> sorry, missed the message
<BHSPitMonkey> http://www.opendesktop.org/content/show.php/Ubuntu+Infinitesque+GRUB+Splash?content=71893 DanaG
<DanaG> Aah.
<mib_uh4qop> Hiya ^^
<kwwii> well, my mac finally bought the dust
<_MMA_> Oh ouch. :(
<_MMA_> How?
<kwwii> someone spilled half a glass of red wine in it
<kwwii> it actually still boots and works but all the buttons are dead
<kwwii> so I guess I could get it fixed
<kwwii> oh, that someone was me :-)
<kwwii> late last night watching a movie in the dark
<kwwii> I have spilled diet coke in it before and it worked fine...I guess alcohol is a bit more corrosive
<_MMA_> hahaha
<_MMA_> Well, just get a new keyboard?
<_MMA_> Its not a laptop right?
<kwwii> yes, it is a laptop
<kwwii> I guess I could try to take it apart and clean it
<kwwii> I will probably just use and external keyboard
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-05-08
<nox-Hand> Hey
<nox-Hand> I am working on a Ubuntu poster for school com/it project, and thought I'd check in here to see if this is anything that might be useable upstream if I finished it OK
<cody-somerville> Of course.
<nox-Hand> Sorry I disappeared, computer got red up with infinite lack of ram =\
<nox-Hand> I've got the "thumbnail" 1000x1400ish here: http://nox-hand.com/docs/images/test_out_smallres_undone.jpg
<nox-Hand> http://nox-hand.com/docs/images/test_out_fullres_undone.jpg || 7016x9921 resolution
<nox-Hand> As you can see, it's not finished, and currently worded in Danish, yet fully editable so I will likely make an English version if the artwork team thinks they can use it for something, or just host it for someone else to use as idea/whatever
<nox-Hand> To be added: Simple explaination of what Ubuntu is, that it's free, and that there are thousands of applications for it \\ change screenshots a bit, so there are more things to see (Desktop in one, Firefox in one [on desktop], Pidgin Chat in one [on desktop], OO.o Writer in one[on desktop], etc \\ add some "ubuntu logo etc copyright of canonical" or whatever that text I should add is
<nox-Hand> Anyway, enough of my yapping, anyone got an opinion of it [so far as I've come at this point]? =)
<kwwii> nox-Hand: you should probably put that on the wiki so that others can find it
<nox-Hand> kwwii: Shall do (when done) =)
<kwwii> nox-Hand: cool
<elkbuntu> i like it
<savvas> it's really sad those brazilian guys didn't give us the source of that flyer they made
<kwwii> brazilian guys? flyer?
<savvas> i can't exactly remember the name of the event..
<savvas> a latino ubuntu party?
<savvas> something like that :\
<kwwii> hrm, never saw it
<savvas> let me look up the emails
<kwwii> nox-Hand: seems there is some interest in your poster
<savvas> flisol
<savvas> the name of the event
<savvas> http://mariocesar.deviantart.com/art/Flisol-2008-Poster-81570556
<kwwii> wow, pretty nifty
<savvas> that's why i said it was really sad i couldn't contact any of them :)
<DanaG> Oh yeah, png is preferred over jpg.
<DanaG> But that's a cool "gratis" thingy!
<kwwii> re
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-05-09
<buda_sk8> Hi!
<Cimi> lol
<nox-Hand> kwwii: Great that there might be interest for it =] Won't be done with it before next week most likely, got two other projects to finish for next week, and this one is also due next week, so I've got my work cut out =D
<kwwii> nox-Hand: keep up the good work :-) let me know when you think it is done
<nox-Hand> kwwii: Will do =)
<nox-Hand> Currently working on a report for chemistry >_> My groupmate just decided to ditch me since "I can't be bothered since I will be switching school next year and my grades don't matter here anyway since I've been accepted" :|
<thorwil> nand_: hi! do you delete double posts on brainstorm?
<thorwil> this would be a candidate: http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/8277/
<thorwil> during any kind of submitting data is the worst time for a browser or the connection to act up ...
<nand_> thorwil: sure!
<nand_> strange, you should not be able to double post...
<thorwil> nand_: oh, and the great weather kept me from working, but i will get back to the help icons this weekend.
<nand_> meaning, there is a minimum interval of 1 minutes between two idea submission
<nand_> thorwil: hehe, so do I :) thanks
<thorwil> nand_: it was a very bad idea to hit the back button ... but i was waiting for a timeout which didn't happen
<nand_> or you happened to hit a very (un)lucky race condition...
<nand_> thorwil: eh did you see your stats on the very-new user page? :)
<thorwil> nand_: my stats? nope
<nand_> http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/contributor/thorwil/
<nand_> seems your ideas are not so popular :s
<thorwil> *shrug*
<nand_> and just for fun, I find a killer: http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/contributor/7K/
<nand_> found
<thorwil> nand_: my system wide shorcut conf idea has some dupes ... it's more defined, though :)
<nand_> hehe. Yes, I think the next thing that will need change is the dupe thing
<nand_> lots of ideas are almost dup, but no dup
<thorwil> nand_: the math captcha is much much nicer than the double line letters
<nand_> thorwil: I never got these two lines... I have seen complaits about it
<nand_> for me, it's always a single line
<thorwil> strange
<nand_> I've asked stgraber to move along
<stgraber> hi there
<thorwil> nand_: huh?
<nand_> stgraber: "the math captcha is much much nicer than the double line letter"
<nand_> stgraber: I've seen quite a lot of complaints about this
<thorwil> hi stgraber
<nand_> an idea?
<nand_> I never encountered this
<stgraber> "double line letter" <-- what do you mean by that ?
<thorwil> just today i needed like 4 attempts with the letter captcha, because it showed not only letters in 2 lines, but even had cases of letters exactly lining up vertically
 * nand_ is trying to find the "idea" describing this pb
<stgraber> thorwil: browser ?
<thorwil> stgraber: sometimes the captcha letters appear in 2 lines. ff as it comes with hardy
<nand> stgraber: http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/7079/
<nand> a good description here
<stgraber> erk, I never had that issue ...
<nand> so do I
<stgraber> Captcha can easily be changed, the problem being that the math captcha alone is in my opinion too easy to work around
<nand> what about the suggested http://recaptcha.net/?
<thorwil> do you keep the browser window at full width all the time?
<stgraber> yep
<nand> ok, did not pass the review, I forgot :s
<stgraber> recpatcha is not approved by Canonical
<stgraber> otherwise I would use it (I do for my own website)
<thorwil> is there a problem with the math thing?
<stgraber> yes, a 10 lines long script can workaround it :)
<stgraber> any coder can make a spam bot solving those math stuff
<nand> the letter one should not be any harder to skip
<stgraber> it's because it's heavily using CSS positioning stuff
<stgraber> you can't just parse the page and takes 2 values, do some math and push the result
<stgraber> images captcha would be better but for some reasons it doesn't work at all
<thorwil> had to deal with youtubes image captcha today. first attempt failed, no fun
<stgraber> nand: http://blog.qa.ubuntu.com/admin/user/captcha/captcha/examples (requires admin access)
<stgraber> we can maybe replace the CSS one by the ASCII art one
<nand> oh yeah, it's a nice one :)
<stgraber> done
 * nand is writing the announcement
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-05-10
<terlmann> â â¨â¨ â BOOBIES!
<terlmann> you havnt changed the topic in 4 months!
<DanaG> -Ã¾
<DanaG> =Ã¾
<terlmann> how did you like the release?
<terlmann> :-P
<DanaG> Actually, I'm going to have dinner soon.
<thorwil> nand: morning! the ascii art captcha is nice and easy. for me, at least :)
<nand> thorwil: hehe nice!
<nand> A few minor remaining bugs, and brainstorm should be back to normal :)
<nxvl> hi
<nxvl> does anyone knows where can i get the server team logo?
<troy_s> nxvl: link?
<nxvl> troy_s: that's what i want
<nxvl> :D
<troy_s> nxvl: What is the link to the logo that you are talking about (not the logo itself, but an image thereof)
<nxvl> oh ok
<nxvl> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/11124085/server.png
<troy_s> nxvl: I hope you are kidding
<troy_s> nxvl: You are looking for the SVG of a blob?
<troy_s> nxvl: I sincerely doubt an SVG exists for that... it is probably pix muddled.  Which would loosely translate into 'you already have the source'.
<troy_s> nxvl: There _may_ be an SVG, but to be honest, the Ubuntu folks aren't that great at making sure that SVG sources exist for much of the work.  Even the 'source' packages of some artwork don't have the sources.
<nxvl> heh
<nxvl> no, i have seen a bigger image of it
<nxvl> but i can't find it
<troy_s> nxvl: Hrm... you certain?
<troy_s> nxvl: If you can find a bigger one it would help tracking it down.
<nxvl> yup
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-05-11
<DanaG> Random: here's a real Heron:  http://homepond.blogspot.com/
<garret_88> hello to all
<garret_88> i am searching desperately hbons
<garret_88> the webmaster of this site
<garret_88> http://bomahy.nl/hylke/blog/
<garret_88> Does he come here?
<thorwil> nand: http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/8353/ and http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/8278/
<thorwil> nand: kinda funny, isn't it? i can't quite get over myself to mark that duplicate, though :)
<nand> thorwil: hehe, these would be great examples for a "how to sell your idea" lecture :)
<nand> if you mark them as dup, the final vote will be 0
<thorwil> nand: yeah. the list would start with don't double post and have someone else commit your idea, though :)
<nand> :)
<nand> I like the idea, though. Maybe for GTK3
<thorwil> nand: glad you like it. no visible interest from gtk devs so far, though. and the lack of page updown seems to be a valid concern surprises me people use that
<thorwil> ^ plus a dot after concern
<nand> maybe the updown arrows should be drawn as now, and when the mouse move over, they dissapear and it behaves like in the video
<nand> thorwil: oh, btw, can I pm you?
<thorwil> nand: sure
<yharrow> hey guys
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-05-04
<ryanprior> LordMetroid: mind you, it's not the artwork that is being done for Ubuntu Main. Canonical does that. We post and discuss community contributions peripheral to the main artwork.
<LordMetroid> Yes, I figured so much. Canonical did bring in the main wallpaper though from the community for 9.04 if I remember the mail correctly
<LordMetroid> I am using wallpaper the community produced which I think is far superior than the rather bland default
<SiDi> For 8.10 afair
<SiDi> (Anyways the best one is the Xubuntu one :O knome  ;) )
<knome> x.x
<SiDi> Night
<H_M-Ubuntu> Hey I have a question for GDM themes
<H_M-Ubuntu> How do I make the input (Username/password combo) box black background, with white text?
<H_M-Ubuntu> Or any color, for that matter.
<H_M-Ubuntu> Hmmm apparently, you can't..
<H_M-Ubuntu> :(
<SiDi> dashua: http://www.2nt.free.fr/host/tmp/HansoXfwm.tar.gz :)
<zniavre> hello i got strange behaviour of gnome-apearence-properties i can't update the picture of my theme
<zniavre> like that > http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/4572/capturexbv.png
<zniavre> and all the metacity chooser is as "blank"
<zniavre> what could be wrong please?
<kwwii> zniavre: a broken theme of some sort perhaps
<zniavre> the theme is working great but it's only the thumbnail wrongly displayed
<zniavre> may be the way i packaged it ?
<zniavre> maybe*
<kwwii> not sure
<kwwii> maybe there is already a known bug about this somehwere?
<zniavre> whith the intrepid of my wife the same package is well displayed
<kwwii> I would look in launchpad and gnome bugs
<zniavre> ok i will after linch
<zniavre> lunch*
<zniavre> thank you for answering
<SiDi> dashua: ping
<SiDi> http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/7408/capturemqe.png there are little artifacts on the right side of the terminal windows but it seems to appear with a lot of themes
<robsta> hiya
<thorwil> hi!
<robsta> hi thorwil
<thorwil> robsta, hi. writing email
<thorwil> kwwii, shall we keep you in CC for css-engine related mail?
<thorwil> robsta, there are 2 cases of graphical patterns in pioneer.svg now
<thorwil> robsta, for ToggleButton Inconsistent (striped) and for the VScale slider (2x checker)
<thorwil> these shouldn't be stretched
<thorwil> robsta, any idea how that can be handled?
<robsta> thorwil: hmm
<robsta> not sure i understand
<robsta> thorwil: as long as librsvg can render it we should be able to use it
<thorwil> robsta, take the togglebutton. the plain buttons have a simple gradient that can be stretched for any size. the striped togglebutton requires a pattern-fill. the 2 px broad stroke, followed by 2px gap should remain 2 and 2 px
<robsta> oh, i see what you mean
<robsta> we can use background-repeat
<thorwil> robsta, do we need a new plate with a single pattern-element on it?
<robsta> but i have to think how this works with the plates
<thorwil> heh
<thorwil> robsta, the assumption of light straight from above makes these things simpler. ideally, it should be possible to use a pattern with an angled fill. meaning that you can't just use one element, but have to handle geometry and fill separately
<thorwil> well, simple case first :)
<robsta> thorwil: i have no idea what you mean
<robsta> what angle?
<thorwil> robsta, rotation of the gradient. meaning a gradient that is anything but exactly horizontal or vertical
<robsta> thorwil: unless we get support for css transforms we have to keep background tiles vertically/horizontally aligned
<thorwil> robsta, if you look at the checker pattern on the slider, it can't be stretched, it must be repeated to fill an area. but at the same time, if it has a gradient fill, the fill does need to be stretched
<robsta> thorwil: you mean compositing of the background?
<robsta> e.g. a tiled checker pattern on top of a gradient?
<thorwil> as mask on a gradient, you could say
<robsta> thorwil: mask?
<thorwil> robsta, alpha mask
<robsta> thorwil: not sure anything but a plain "combine" can be done in css
<robsta> anyway, currently only a single bg image is supported by the css library
<thorwil> robsta, could you take geomtry from the file, duplicate it to fill an area and then give it a single gradient fill?
<robsta> thorwil: what we could do (after substantial improvements) is drawing arbitrary background-images on top of each other
<robsta> e.g. first the background gradient (vertical gradient) with "repeat-x"
<robsta> then the checker pattern on top
<robsta> tiled, so it repeats in x and y direction
<robsta> would that work?
<thorwil> the checker pattern would have to have a single color, then. better than nothing, but not good
<robsta> why? it can be an arbitrary image
<thorwil> because the geometry needs to be tiled, but the gradient fill (if one is involved) needs to be stretched
<robsta> you would have 2 different background-images
<robsta> on different plates
<robsta> one is the gradient, the other the checker patter
<robsta> n
<thorwil> robsta, what i would want is a gradient fill as base, plus a pattern with its own gradient fill on top ...
<robsta> yes, that is (theoretically, in the css3 spec) possible
<robsta> thorwil: http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-background/#layering
<thorwil> robsta, shall we make that a wishlist item and go with tiling in one direction, fill and geometry at once for now?
<robsta> thorwil: yes
<SiDi> May I ask what you guys are preparing ? :)
<robsta> SiDi: we want to prove people who say gtk theming sucks wrong
<thorwil> using css and svg
<SiDi> writing a new engine ? :D
<robsta> css svg and our awesomeness of course
<SiDi> Well, i'll morally support you then :)
<robsta> a new engine is part of what we are doing
<robsta> thorwil: the problem is that the css parsing library doesn't support those css3 constructs
<robsta> thorwil: but i want to write my own css parser anyway, inside libccss
<robsta> just that days only have 24h in my timezone :/
<thorwil> yeah
<thorwil> need more hours and/or more people (well aware of overhead)
 * SiDi doesn't have spare time. Neither awesomeness
 * thorwil wonders how SiDi manages to hang out here with no spare time
<SiDi> IRC is my distraction, thorwil :)
<SiDi> currently working on my next exam + writing a project report
<SiDi> but i need frequent breaks
<robsta> thorwil: maybe we can keep the current plates and use "-moz-image-region" to specify the tile
<robsta> for the striped buttons at least
<kwwii> thorwil: yes, please, if it is not too much trouble
 * thorwil throws wildcards at kwwii for still not being subscribed to all of Artwork on the wiki
<dashua> SiDi: Another hack pushed to bzr ;)
<SiDi> :)
<SiDi> btw, got the xfwm ?
<dashua> That pixel bug you're talking about?
<dashua> I didn't get a chance to look at it.
<SiDi> no thats anyways a xfce bug heh
<SiDi> not specific to your theme
<SiDi> http://www.2nt.free.fr/host/tmp/HansoXfwm.tar.gz
<SiDi> that :p
<dashua> Oh nice
<SiDi> done with photoshop though :X
<SiDi> i needed to do it quick to get a dark xfwm :p
<dashua> Moving to opensource tools?
<dashua> I don't have photoshop
<ryanprior> If anybody is interested in helping the ubuntu game development team create artwork for games, holla.
<dashua> http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/13501/screenshot_025_O77Wht.png
<dashua> Needs a little love.  I prefer dark, but it seems most people do not.
<SiDi> damn i disabled images in firefox due to bandwidth
<SiDi> and mibbit puts mini images instead of URIs to images T_T
<SiDi> can you write it with a space in the name please dashua ? :P
<SiDi> dashua: i'm using inkscape, learning little by little. I use it for graphics in my reports atm
<dashua> http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/13501/ screenshot_025_O77Wht.png
<SiDi> thanks
<dashua> Np
<dashua> brb
<SiDi> sweet
<knome> Daviey, the problem with dark themes is also that if there is lots of quite similar dark tones, many people can't see the difference their monitor or eyes
<knome> dashua, ^
<SiDi> dashua: btw, which color is used for the toolbars (the ones with file / edit / display) ? I can't get them to the same colour than the window borders
<dashua> SiDi: The menubar?
<dashua> On which theme?
<dashua> #202020
<SiDi> Hanso
<dashua> oh
<SiDi> It seems its a mix of the primary colors
<SiDi> cause i changed them and it didnt have much effect
<SiDi> (or i did something wrong :p)
<dashua> #231D13
<SiDi> wee :D
<dashua> File > Edit > Search > View, etc.  That's the menubar
<dashua> Cool
<dashua> Hanso is still my favorite out of the Karmic-Themes
<dashua> 4 weeks and I'm still using it.  Record here.
<SiDi> Its a fork of Rust, right ?
<dashua> Yeah, sort of
<SiDi> yah they usually move fast here too, but i feel this one'll stay
<knome> SiDi, wait for the official xubuntu theme ;)
<dashua> Xubuntu is blue, right?
<knome> ...maybe.
<knome> we/i don't know yet.
<SiDi> dashua: though the scrollbar is quite tiny, and thus the arrow part doesnt look great here
<SiDi> i'd love to see a fork of dust 0.3's scrollbars, in a darker color
<SiDi> well, dark bar and light bar background, cause it also breaks the layout of GUIs with a scrollbar in the middle
<SiDi> due to the color contrast
<dashua> I'm working on new scrollbars for Dust.  Kido wanted a lighter version of the Hanso scrollbars.
<dashua> He reverted back to .3's
<SiDi> these were awesome though :)
<SiDi> really one of my favourite things on dust
<dashua> The new series is all murrine based
<dashua> .4
<savvas> now make an dedust-ubuntu map for counter strike and that's it! :P
<SiDi> and terrorists work at MS ?
<SiDi> and counter are the guys of the MOTU Team ?
<savvas> now that would be a nice game haha
<savvas> imagine the players to be ninjas throwing "ubuntu" stars :P
<savvas> I mean those 3-bladed knives, or whatever they're called
<SiDi> shurikens
<SiDi> ninja stars are the 8 side ones afair
<savvas> well we'll have our own ubuntu ones :P
<dashua> SiDi: http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/13502/ screenshot_026_GaR40N.png
<dashua> ?
<SiDi> dashua: sorry but i dont think it fits the theme :)
<dashua> Too light?
<SiDi> Hanso is a smooth theme, this is a "metallic" scrollbar. I'd more see this in the theme which pic you saw me earlier
<SiDi> too "squared"
<SiDi> it doesnt fit with the roundness of the theme and the smoothness of the colors
<dashua> Lighter scrollbar and darker through you think?
<SiDi> yeh
<SiDi> not thiner though :p
<SiDi> more discrete
<dashua> Ok
<dashua> I'm wondering if I should stay with the pixmap engine for the scrollbars? It's just so much faster when scrolling.
<dashua> Than the engines scrollbars itself.
<SiDi> dunno ^^
<dashua> I can make a round scrollbar with murrine, its just slow.
<SiDi> what if you do it with the pixmap engine then ?
<SiDi> i really don't know much about engines
<dashua> Yeah, I will probably stay with the pixma engine for the scrollbars.
<dashua> Murrine is for everything else.
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-05-05
<dashua> SiDi: Might be onto something here.  Will have to work on it some more.  Thoughts?
<dashua> http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/13505/ screenshot_027_3WFU4o.png
<SiDi> good path :p
<SiDi> tho, is there a way to get the outside borders "round" ?
<dashua> Hrm, I don't think unless I use the same color so it blends in.
<dashua> You mean rounds the bottom and tops pf the steppers?
<dashua> round*
<SiDi> yeh
<dashua> Maybe dilomo can help me some time.  He is a pixmap master.
<SiDi> dashua: i'm up'ing the hanso xfwm to xfce-artwork ;)
<SiDi> Night people
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-05-06
<kwwii> good morning everyone
<zniavre> bonjour kwwii
<zniavre> hello
<zniavre> i can't find the way to add application icon inside metacity title bar
<zniavre> could you help me?
<zniavre> im even enable to find the lines in metacity who display this icon
<kwwii> zniavre1: check these for these lines:
<kwwii> <draw_ops name="menu_button_icon">
<kwwii>   <icon  x="(width-mini_icon_width)/2-2"
<kwwii>          y="(height-mini_icon_height)/2+1"
<kwwii>          width="mini_icon_width" height="mini_icon_height"/>
<kwwii> </draw_ops>
<kwwii> <draw_ops name="menu_button_normal">
<kwwii>   <include name="menu_button_icon"/>
<kwwii> </draw_ops>
<kwwii> <draw_ops name="menu_button_pressed">
<kwwii>   <include name="menu_button_icon"/>
<kwwii> </draw_ops>
<kwwii> <draw_ops name="menu_button_unfocused">
<kwwii>   <include name="menu_button_icon"/>
<kwwii> </draw_ops>
<kwwii> and or the last two lines in <frame_style name="normal" geometry="normal"> , etc.
<kwwii>   <button function="menu" state="normal" draw_ops="menu_button_normal"/>
<kwwii>   <button function="menu" state="pressed" draw_ops="menu_button_pressed"/>
<zniavre> im trying but i can't ...
<zniavre> practice again  i will try later after dinner
<zniavre> thank you kwwii
<zniavre> metacity is at least more tricky than the panels
<thorwil> kwwii, i wanto to clean up the Backgrounds page now. i intend to delete https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Karmic/Backgrounds?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=sunslush.jpg for lack of high-res version. isn't exactly great, anyway
<thorwil> kwwii, how do you feel about http://dindator.blogg.se/images/2009/ubuntu_36793804.jpg ? i think such submissions are no good. i would risk to hurt people's feelings, but you might disagree?
<kwwii> thorwil: for now I would leave them up...I was just discussing starting up the process for wallpapers again
<kwwii> so once we know what we want to change we can do it all at once
<kwwii> and have a good excuse at the same time
<thorwil> kwwii, i was just about to create 300px high versions of David's and EllE's images to put it all up. makes no sense for sunlush. it's from that shadow-some-number guy who will never follow up with something sensible, anyway
<kwwii> thorwil: yeah, if you are going to do that kinda work, feel free to remove them then
<thorwil> good, thanks :)
<kwwii> if anyone complains we can give them some good advice for improvement and hope that they come back with something nicer :p
<kwwii> for karmic, I am going to put out some info for the default wallpaper as well as a contest for photos and all other ideas so that we can put them in categories and include them as well
<kwwii> aka apple
<thorwil> kwwii, after this cleanup, i would like to announce strict rules, meaning that submissions that are not attached and don't have 300px high versions on the page will be removed
 * thorwil makes a voodoo doll of mailing list digest mode, rips out it's limbs to disable it for all time
<thorwil> for a in *.jpg; do convert $a -resize 300 ${a%%.*}_s.jpg; done
<kwwii> thorwil: as long as we have a *really* good explanation for newbies
<kwwii> thorwil: in fact, it would be best to put that script in one file and make it downloadable somehow
<thorwil> sure
<thorwil> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Karmic/Backgrounds#How to add background images the proper way
<kwwii> right, and that *should* be good enough but I have learned to never underestimate the stupidity of some newbies :p
<thorwil> like i don't know that
<kwwii> hehe
<thorwil> but i expect nothing from those who can't or won't listen ;)
<kwwii> well, if we do remove someone's stuff (and it is good stuff) we can send them an email asking them to do it properly
<kwwii> true as well...although sometime the best artists are the hardest to deal with
<thorwil> no hope for collaboration and packaging if we should run into  such a personality
<kwwii> well, sometimes you just need to babysit them
<thorwil> i even went so far to contact EllE, who insterted links to the images on her blog to explain how to attach them. nothing came out of that, though
<kwwii> oh well, after 10 hours in the office it is time to go back to the hotel
<SiDi> Hey dashua
<SiDi> you join at the good time :D
<dashua> Hey Sidi
<SiDi> I just finished the xfwm for your new theme ^^
<dashua> The broadcom drivers are foobarred in jaunty-proposed so I to compile the new one
<dashua> Ah nice
<dashua> Looks good man
<SiDi> shall i mail it to you or put it on xfce-look ?
<SiDi> (i mean alvaro theme :p)
<SiDi> (and btw, i got suggestions regarding panel colors for alvaro)
<dashua> Oh nice
<dashua> You can throw it up
<dashua> Sure, shoot?
<SiDi> whats your mail again please ?
<dashua> jws141
<dashua> @gmail.com
<SiDi> well, i think you should use orange only for mouse hover (and a slightly lighter one, with dark grey text font, for instance)
<SiDi> and by default for the active window, some light grey
<SiDi> cause here the default orange + light grey wouldn't look great if i didnt have an orange icon theme
<SiDi> and the text isnt very readable
<dashua> Alright, I'll make some mods
<dashua> I'm digging the new scrollbars for Hanso  I think they streamline much better especially on apps where there are many scrollbars
<dashua> Like Rhythmbox
<SiDi> mailed it to you
<dashua> Thx
<SiDi> Did you commit the new scrollbars yet ?
<dashua> Yeah
<dashua> Dark totem is rocking pretty good too
<SiDi> *Downloads*
<dashua> People are digging Alvaro which I figured they would
<dashua> They also seem to like those lighter themes
<dashua> always*
<SiDi> already on gnome-look.org ?
<SiDi> i'll upload alvaro to xfce-look now then
<dashua> Yeah
<dashua> If you're a Lost fan, you'll catch the correlation
<SiDi> im not :P
<dashua> Between those two themes
<SiDi> can you give me an url ?
<SiDi> i cant find it x_x
<dashua> I just pushed xfwm4 to Alvaro
<dashua> Can you test it?
<SiDi> im using it atm :D
<dashua> Ok, just wanted to make sure the source added ok
<SiDi> If you put it on the web, say in the changelog that not all the buttons are done tho. I couldn't find inspiration for the stick/shad buttons
<dashua> Ok
<SiDi> and when you make metacity themes, do _not_ hesitate to make more buttons hehe ;p
<dashua> Ha, alright
<dashua> That metacity is not done. The outer frame needs some work
<SiDi> esp. the circle (sticky for xfwm) and line+arrow up/down (shadow toggled/not toggled)
<SiDi> It's quite sexy already
<SiDi> and the buttons rock :P
<SiDi> i'll see later if i can make a sticky and shadow button for this one
<dashua> Thx.  If you zoom in with Compiz you'll see what I'm talking about.
<dashua> It's because I rounded the corners
 * SiDi doesn't use compiz :P It doesnt support xfwm yet.
<dashua> http://www.ubuntu-art.org/content/show.php/Alvaro?content=104145
<SiDi> heh ubuntu-art :) i was looking on gnome-look and couldnt find it x_x
<dashua> SiDi: Can you email the Hanso xfmw4 ?
<dashua> I'll commit it
<dashua> I lost it =/
<SiDi> sure
<SiDi> oh btw dashua i'm not sure alvaro appears in gnome-look
<dashua> Really?
<dashua> They all usually sync
<SiDi> aaw, bandwidth is slow ;x the hanso mail is sent btw
<dashua> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Alvaro?content=104145
<dashua> Thx
<SiDi> oh, also, the text in the progress bars is white with alvaro
<SiDi> i'm not sure thats very readable ^^
<dashua> Ok
<SiDi> About time : http://xfce-look.org/content/show.php?content=104246
<SiDi> Took me several minutes of loading :D
<dashua> Wow
<dashua> They are all lagging pretty decent today
<SiDi> It's me actually :D
<dashua> Slow here too
<dashua> The new Breathe navigation icons look really good on top of Hanso's toolbar
<dashua> Really stand out
<dashua> Contrast very well
<SiDi> i dont have them yet
<SiDi> i got the PPA but _MMA_ didn't make a package for a while
<dashua> http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/13608/ screenshot_030_32L0aP.png
<dashua> I have the package.  Send if you want it?
<dashua> 2 mb
<SiDi> Sure :D
<SiDi> oh btw thanks but the image link problem is fixed :P dont bother with cutting uris anymore
<dashua> Ah good
<SiDi> hm yeh it looks great
<SiDi> (but i think it'd look even better if the light was coming from up ^^)
<SiDi> Thanks dashua, got the deb
<dashua> Np
<SiDi> climbed at 400 kB/s with a download manager ^^
<dashua> Hanso xfwm4 committed to Hanso :)
<SiDi> wee :)
<SiDi> btw i'll probably improve the hanso xfwm this week-end
<dashua> Awesome, just email me the changes
<dashua> Maybe I'll register a project for the new themes and you can work on them as well?
<dashua> Merge the junk into a project
<SiDi> Sure ;)
<SiDi> i'll be the xfce QA tester :P
<dashua> Yeah, that'll work :)
<dashua> Sorry, new crack for Nvidia beta drivers
<SiDi> :p
<dashua> My Dell Mini is listed still "In Production".  I wonder if the order is foobarred?
<dashua> That's a long time.
<dashua> Maybe they were inundated with orders, which is probably the case at $199
<SiDi> those mini at 200$ with ubuntu ?
<SiDi> thats more than a good offer imo :P
<SiDi> if i hadn't bought a laptop 5 months ago i'd have imported one to france
<dashua> Yeah
<dashua> I'm going to jack the ram up to 2 gig and add a 64 ssd
<dashua> Maybe even dual-boot OSX just because it works ;)
<SiDi> meeh :p
<SiDi> hm i'll have to make a "desktop" icon with my wallpaper ^^
<dashua> I'm going to have to try new steppers for Hanso.  OOo is a bitch.
<dashua> Bah
<SiDi> OOo *never* looks fine
<SiDi> they should really review their interface
<dashua> Shit is always reversed
<dashua> I might have to keep them.  They integrate well in most every other app
<dashua> You were right, the darker one are very nice but can be obtrusive at times
<dashua> ones*
<SiDi> You can't fight OOo's steppers :p
<SiDi> same with filezilla
<SiDi> they claim its the themes but actually the thing they build their UI on isn't fully compliant
<dashua> Yeah
<dashua> How do you like Breathe?
<SiDi> That's hard to say
<SiDi> i've been using it for about 2 months now, instead of human
<SiDi> some icons are damn sexy with a lot of details
<SiDi> but there are some that i dont like :/
<SiDi> like the one used by the xfce4-places-plugin, its too orange, it doesnt look nice with a blue theme
<dashua> Once it's complete, I think it'll be great
<SiDi> i hope so :P
<SiDi> dashua: isnt there a rendering problem with the 'left' icon of breathe ?
<SiDi> it looks bigger than the others :/
<dashua> I think that may be intentional.
<SiDi> I think i'll keep the human navigation icons then ^^
<dashua> http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/13611/screenshot_031_WGqJRb.png
<dashua> This is an issue.
<SiDi> dashua: ping ?
<SiDi> http://paste.ubuntu.com/165692/ Added this in Alvaro
<SiDi> http://paste.ubuntu.com/165696/ ^
<SiDi> dashua: i also changed the selected_fg_color to #333, except for style "menu-item" = "dark" for which i turned them back to #fff
<SiDi> text on progress bars and selected text is easier to read with that
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-05-07
<SiDi> morning
<thorwil> the gtk open file dialog is so awesome. completely stalls trying to create a preview for a complex SVG :(
 * SiDi asks screenshots !
<thorwil> SiDi, it's just the "glass" background from Incoming/Jaunty. now called "gloosh" :)
<thorwil> how this bad joke of a broken file dialog can stay in place so long is beyond me
<SiDi> here svg's seem to render well
<SiDi> the few ones i got under hand are far from complex though
<thorwil> SiDi, you can get it from http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~t-w-/ubuntu-artwork/thorwils_backgrounds/annotate/head%3A/glass/glass.svg
<thorwil> and have fun, for example by opening it with firefox
 * SiDi goes download the file :)
<thorwil> why the checkered-elephant does gnome-look.org only allow one upload per wallpaper?
<SiDi> Dunno
<SiDi> their site is so badly designed for adding artwork$
<SiDi> they should really redesign it from scratch imo, even if it takes time
<thorwil> yeah, works hard against my expectations
<thorwil> but 4 downloads a few minutes after adding
<SiDi> thorwil: it lagged a little but didnt crash or show it badly rendered :p
<SiDi> damn
<SiDi> xfdesktop cant read svg's
<thorwil> want the png?
<knome> gnome/xfce-look.org are always *damn* slow
<SiDi> i got inkscape, no worries ;)
<SiDi> I actually begin to love inkscape
<SiDi> i'll have to dig through it and learn to use it, it looks promising
<thorwil> oh, it's good to bring inkscape to its knees, too. or rather, make inkscape eat your cpu
<SiDi> heh i dont try to do anything high-res with a laptop :)
<knome> thorwil, why is the bg black in the glass.svg?
<SiDi> i just use it for simple schemes for my project report. it's a good way to get used to it
<thorwil> i've used several versions of freehand and illustrator ... inkscape is good. if only blur wasn't so expensive and export a little crisper
<thorwil> knome, to save my eyes
<knome> thorwil, right :P
<knome> thorwil, why do they need to be saved?
<SiDi> well, about blur, i got seriously pawned when i first tried it. It lagged my pc badly
<thorwil> knome, editing dark graphics is easier against black bg
<knome> maybe
<SiDi> knome puts blue everywhere
<knome> haha :P
<SiDi> i'm sure even his whole house has been painted in blue by now :D
<knome> not really
<knome> we have white walls
<knome> just plain white
<SiDi> mines were meant to be white too
<SiDi> but they got painted too fast, i can see the sad green there was before in some places
<knome> and no paintings :P
<knome> or whatever hanging
<SiDi> placo-white ? :P
<knome> but we have *tadah* red curtains :P
<SiDi> ^^
<SiDi> mines have an ugly blue color
<knome> lol
<SiDi> same for the door
<knome> zomg
<SiDi> its really an ugly place here :p but i'll be out of there soon oO
<SiDi> the furnitures look like they're out of a 60's movie too
<knome> the damage has already happened :P
<SiDi> i had to bring some of mine - plain black - to save my eyes
<SiDi> and i put a yucca too \o/
<knome> meh
<knome> i put my cd shelves on the wall
<SiDi> dashua: ping :P
<SiDi> (i'm in a student room btw :p sucks :p)
<knome> haha
<SiDi> soon i'll have a studio \o/
<knome> lol
<SiDi> (well, if they give me one :O)
<SiDi> (still no answer, we're in middle of may ~)
<knome> a studio or an apartment? :P
<SiDi> Well, depends
<SiDi> on a town i'm meant to have a studio
<SiDi> they only give them to master students :p
<SiDi> and on another one, the town's so empty they even got T1 apartments :D
<SiDi> (i even got a friend who got an apartment with 2 bedrooms for 220â¬/month :P but he's been badly lucky)
<knome> mehhh
<SiDi> its meant to be for colocations
<SiDi> but if you dont specify someone to colocate with and if theres enough room
<SiDi> you end up with a T2 all for you
<SiDi> and they're so dumb you'll only pay half of the electricity/water you use
<SiDi> the rest will be for the ghost colocator. !
<knome> lol
 * SiDi yawns
<knome> mah
<SiDi> debugging my client T_T
<SiDi> theres something wrong between a recv, a ntohs, and a b_decode function
<knome> nah
 * knome should be working in 5,5 hours
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-05-08
<SiDi> Client debugged \o/
<savvas> i need your experties :)
<savvas> what icon would you make for https://launchpad.net/surl - an application that shortens urls?
<kwwii> thorwil: what do you think of the idea of creating an overlay of just the panels and some desktop icons with text, at say 1024x768 which can be used to show how wallpaper submissions would look in practice?
<thorwil> kwwii, i once though of the same ... and forgot about it :)  good, just not sure about the size
<thorwil> kwwii, one could even go so far to script it, including generating it for all common aspect ratios
<kwwii> thorwil: yeah, I was thinking of a script to do it, as well as create the thumbnail, etc
<kwwii> an all-in-one script
<kwwii> I think that too many aspect ratios would be overkill though
<kwwii> perhaps just show a 4:3 and one widescreen
<thorwil> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Documentation/Backgrounds
<kwwii> btw I am working on the karmic wallpaper brief, as well as a competition for a package of extra wallpapers
<thorwil> 4:3 doesn't seem to be that common anymore
<thorwil> cool
<kwwii> true
<kwwii> the point is mainly to show how the wallpaper will work with panels and icons
<kwwii> ie in action
<kwwii> it is easy to make a really nice pic which is unsuitable for the desktop
 * SiDi nods.
<thorwil> kwwii, i still have to add a XCF background template, same approach as with the SVG one
<thorwil> saying this as a call/competition could mention it
<kwwii> thorwil: yeah, I'm going to be sending several emails once I get all the info together
<kwwii> I have some other ideas as well :)
<kwwii> hehe, nice moon icon...could have just used this as well: https://launchpad.net/~inkscape-nightly
<kwwii> (without the inkscape logo naturally)
 * kwwii takes a break
<dashua> SiDi: Sup mate?
<SiDi> heya :)
<SiDi> fine, you ?
<dashua> Good, sorry I was busy with some things.  Buying a new house, so I have a lot going on.
<SiDi> heh :)
<dashua> I had a ping the other day
<dashua> Didn't get back to you.
<SiDi> yeh
<SiDi> i mailed you a change i made about alvaro's panel
<SiDi> don't know if you got it :p
<dashua> Oh, I added those changes you sent me on irc
<dashua> Looks good :)
<SiDi> i think i changed them again, not sure :p
<dashua> Got it
<dashua> Thx
<SiDi> gonna upload a pic, tell me if its what it looks like ^^
<SiDi> http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/8325/foo.png
<dashua> Nice
<dashua> http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/13698/screenshot_006_qhUmnx.png
<dashua> Great. Added :)
<dashua> panel prelights look much better
<SiDi> woohoo looks sexy on gnome
<SiDi> oh btw the fonts aint bold on xfce ;) i dunno if its volunteer or not
<dashua> No ,its defined in the gtkrc
<dashua> Not sure how it translates in Xfce
<SiDi> doesnt work :P
<SiDi> I'm not sure the panel accepts bold fonts
<kwwii> thorwil, everyone: what do you think of including a set of background based on adjectives instead of the typical photographic conventions like nature, etc?
<kwwii> so something like "fun" for instance
<SiDi> emotions / atmospheres ?
<kwwii> right
<SiDi> I think it could be better
<kwwii> SiDi: ok, how would you make it bettr?
<SiDi> for instance i dont care if my background is a place, an animal, etc, as long as its "modern" and well polished
<thorwil> kwwii, adjectives, slogans, art-styles ...
<SiDi> the problem is about categorizing the wallpapers, but apart from that, sorting them according to what we think they're designed for could be interesting
<kwwii> SiDi: right, modern could be one of the adjectives
<thorwil> SiDi, modern and polish does narrow it down so much that only the titanic could still slip through
<SiDi> (and i honnestly think canonical SHOULD get some high quality photos and ship them as wallpapers)
<SiDi> thorwil: its not modern anymore :D
<thorwil> kwwii, or postmodern? ;>
<SiDi> or post mortem :O
<kwwii> :p
<SiDi> thorwil kwwii dashua have a nice day
 * _MMA_ waves
<SiDi> Heya Cory
<_MMA_> yo yo
<SiDi> wow, you didnt join this chan for ages :)
<_MMA_> I started a new job. Been *real* busy. But the money has been well worth it. I'm still very active on the list.
<SiDi> I'm quite busy too, but i don't even gain money from my work :P
<_MMA_> Too bad.
<_MMA_> 55hr work weeks so far here. Real good money. Will allow me to pay things off in a hurry and buy some toys. ;)
<SiDi> Wow
<SiDi> 55hours is a lot :p Last time i worked i stopped at 43 and it was already too much (but wasnt really comp sci tho x_x)
<_MMA_> I'm gonna buy the kids a Wii then Ill get myself 2 new 20' monitors. Those beside my 24" I'll have a 20"/24"/20" setup. :P
<SiDi> Heh
 * _MMA_ works with his hands. Custom metal fabrication.
<SiDi> Ouch
<SiDi> I was working on a cardboard factory :P
<_MMA_> It's not bad. Pretty fun actually. Lots of math and I get to use big tools. ;)
<SiDi> easier to work on and carry than metal
<_MMA_> Ok well I'm gonna run. I'll idle. Gotta go out but will make a Breathe update later.
<SiDi> Have fun :P
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-05-09
<kwwii> _MMA_: dude!
<kwwii> wassup?
<_MMA_> kwwii: Preppin' for the weekend. Gonna chill for a bit.
<_MMA_> kwwii: Counting the days 'till I see the family again. (been 2 weeks so far)
<kamelarcos> salut tous le monde il y a des francais sil vous plait?
<SiDi> There are some but the channel is english speaking
<kwwii> kamelarcos: no
<kwwii> sorry
<SiDi> kwwii, i'm french actually ~ not that i'm proud of it though
<kamelarcos> kwwii:  ok  sorry :(
<kwwii> SiDi: killer!
<kwwii> kamelarcos: oui :)
<SiDi> kwwii, i didnt choose it :P Neither did i choose our very representative little dwarf !
<kwwii> I speak english, german, spanish pertty well and a smattering of french but I have gotten into detailed email conversations in french which went way out of my league so I am carefull these days :p
<kwwii> SiDi: lol
<kamelarcos> kwooo
<kamelarcos> kwii genial
<SiDi> Yay : http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~rezteam/reztorrent/0.1-devel/revision/4?start_revid=4
<kamelarcos> pourquoi a tu dit non alors :p
<SiDi> I'm gonna have to wake up in 6 hours for a travel to spain...
<SiDi> and i'm playing with bazaar instead
<_MMA_> 'Tis the way of the geek.
<kwwii> SiDi: I have no idea what that bzr branch is, but hooray for you anyway :D
<SiDi> kwwii, it's my bittorrent client :)
<SiDi> it's almost stable now
<kwwii> I'll be in spain in 10 days
<kwwii> barcelona
 * SiDi hopes he'll still have the time to come at UDS :p
<kwwii> I'll get to experience the amazing catalonian love of football
<SiDi> I've got an oral exam on wednesday, i don't know if i'll attend it (i'm allowed not to, cause UDS, but i still think it sucks not doing the exam)
<SiDi> kwwii, especially since the FC barcelona seems to have played decently lately
<kwwii> drop by if you get the chance, it will be great
<kwwii> SiDi: no doubt ;)
<SiDi> i'll come anyways :p but i'm just bugged by the date of the exam T_T
<kwwii> my best friend comes from barcelona...when we visit we go to the fan club and watch games
<_MMA_> kwwii: PM
<SiDi> anyways, time to go rest ! Have fun people.
<kwwii> I understand spanish pretty well but I get about 30% of what the commentator is saying in catalan
<kwwii> night
<SiDi> kwwii, its already a lot for someone neither french nor spanish ;)
<kwwii> ;)
<kwwii> sleep well
<dashua> _MMA_: http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/13745/screenshot_012_u12jJs.png ?
<_MMA_> dashua: Has a nice feel to it. Either TWF messes up the "add/+" glyph or many people forget to fix it in their theme. :P
<_MMA_> (it's off-center)
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-05-10
<thorwil> kwwii, hi. daniel planas just posted on the gnome-shell list, with links to images he attached to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming
<thorwil> i'm tempted to delete them, making all his links point to nothing, but that might seem mean
 * thorwil writes helpful mail instead
<SiDi> Hello world
<savvas> <world> Goodbye silence!
 * SiDi cries.
<SiDi> hey dashua :) ping me tuesday about the mail you sent me, i'll be too busy to think right now :p and yes it looks damn sexy with the toolbar's unified with the metacity ;)
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-05-10
<Viper550> hey
<hyperair> hello
<Viper550> http://imgur.com/2LSQN.png (gummy) or http://imgur.com/uEWoc.png (classic) ?
<islington> Viper550: gummy
<Viper550> islington, I made a variation calling tabs from Industrial engine instead http://imgur.com/zr0wc.png
<zniavre> hello
<zniavre> im trying to use my own xchat icon but it does not display well on indicator menu ( http://dl.dropbox.com/u/187396/iconsize.png ) wich name and wich size must be used please ?
<Viper550> hey
<mario-kemper> hi there, is there any way to get icons into the official Ubuntu Mono Icon theme that are related to applications from the universe repository, e.g. an icon for Shutter?
<Viper550> mario-kemper, that would be a great idea
<mario-kemper> and how do the icons get into the theme? or should every developer ship their own icons and place it in the ubuntu-mono* folder? would that be a sane way to do it?
<Viper550> I'm not sure, sometimes the icons may be hardcoded in the program
<mario-kemper> yes, sure - but thats bad anyway
<mario-kemper> Shutter does load the icon from icon name
<mario-kemper> so, is there any way to hand the icons over to you guys or do I need to ship the icons with the application itself?
<Viper550> kwwii, I've been working on ideas for Lubuntu
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-05-11
<phocean> hi all
<phocean> I am impressed by the latest release, and especially by the quality of the font rendering
<phocean> I am curious to know what was changed to get such an improvement
<coz_> phocean,  I wouldnt have an answer for you on that one :)
<phocean> coz_: thanks anyway. when I compare it with previous releases the difference is obvious...
<coz_> phocean,  cool... I havent noticed.... right now I am still on karmic  because there are a few issues with lucid  I  dont want to deal with
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-05-12
<kwwii> does anyone here know of a colour calibration tool which works on linux?
<Viper550> hey
<Viper550> anyone active?
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-05-13
<thorwil> kwwii: is there anything planned for tomorrow's design roundtable?
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-05-14
<ejat> where can i get new ubuntu font?
<knome> ejat, please read the topic
<ejat> owh ok thanks
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-05-15
<Viper550> oh hey
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#ubuntu-artwork 2011-05-09
<thorwil> vish: hi! what happened to the free culture showcase and background collection sessions?
<vish> thorwil: hey,..  nothing much just that the main change is going to be tagging the illustrations separately
<vish> thorwil: i get a feeling they dont want to keep doing it, and would be open to someone who wants to step in
<thorwil> vish: ah, so they did happen. can no longer find them on the schedule (was looking for the pads, that way)
<vish> thorwil: yea, we did both in the same freeculture session itself
<mainerror> o/
<coz_> what is this needing to enable SASL for freenode>? anyone?
<coz_> wow 21 logged in,, is this a record ? :)
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-05-10
<coz_>   hey all
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-05-11
<marcushaslam> hi
<coz_>   hey all
<coz_> I noticed I cannot find the "community team" members listed
<Islington> coz_: anyone who contributes is a comm member, including you
<coz_> Islington,  well there used to be alink on the commuity art page  that listed members... i was just curious
<Islington> oh? well if you find ping me too
<coz_> ok will do
<coz_> I dont think it exists anylonger however
<Islington> yeah the wiki goes through extensive pruning
<coz_> apparenlty
<Islington> wanna see what I am working on this summer?
<coz_> absolutely :)
<Islington> gimme a sex
<Islington> *sec
<coz_> Islington,  sex is good but rather   difficult via  irc lol
<Islington> lol
<Islington> http://imagebin.org/152843 and http://imagebin.org/152842
<Islington> originally was planning to edit faenza
<Islington> but the way those icons are put together is mental
<coz_> Islington,  a nice,, a set of icons is very time consuming for sure
<Islington> oh yeah, but a good learning time
<coz_> Islington,  I really like simplicity,,,, especially for icons
<coz_> Islington,  definitly a learning experience
<coz_> Islington,  nice rendition of the faenza so far,,,  are they going to remain nice coloured swatches like that ?  yes?
<Islington> coloured swatches?
<coz_> well the ones on the first link  on the left
<Islington> of those are part of the kde naming framework
<coz_> Islington,  ah ok
<Islington> so you can have diff colored folders
<coz_> excellent :)
<thorwil> coz_: were you looking for this? https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-art/+members
<coz_> thorwil,  ah yes  thanks,  I must be doofy to day ,, I couldnt find it
<coz_> thorwil,  although I have always joined and never get listed lol
<Islington> both the admin of the group MMA and kwwii_ are inactive afaik
<Islington> actually scratch that I dont know who Joel is
<coz_> ah no longer a "join the team" option
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-05-12
<marcushaslam> hi
<akshatj> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/05/open-source-designer-izo-talks-tools-design-tips-and-talent
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-05-13
<coz_>  hey all
<vish> !ping
<ubot2> Here I am, brain the size of a planet and they ask me to respond to factoid requests. Call that job satisfaction? Because I don't.
<akshatj> vish: Y U NO papercuts leader anymore?
<vish> akshatj: ME TOO OLD FOR THIS $#!t ;p
<akshatj> vish: ah, the evil doctor is getting old
<akshatj> :P
<vish> akshatj: it was more, that OMG gets more hits when we blog and it makes no sense duplicating the same work..
<akshatj> vish: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/05/open-source-designer-izo-talks-tools-design-tips-and-talent
 * mainerror waves
<thorwil> is there a vm option that allows one to see unity in all its glory (not 2d fallback)?
<leoquant> vm and direct rendering? don't know...
<coz_> thorwil,  last I heard  Unity wont work in vm  but that my have changed
<troy_s> thorwil: In all its glory it is so crustily clunky performance wise that I can't imagine it in a VM.
<troy_s> Greets all.
<thorwil> troy_s: hi. "all its glory" was actual a bait just for you ;)
<troy_s> thorwil: It worked.
<troy_s> thorwil: Although if I read one more post on ZOMFGUbuntu with "good" "ugly" "beautiful" "consumer oriented" or other empty crap terms I'll explode.
<troy_s> thorwil: The longer I live, the longer I realize that there is a tremendous chasm that isn't exactly being spanned elegantly.
<troy_s> (there I used one)
<troy_s> vish has entered the room.
<thorwil> troy_s: the consumer orientation of zomgubuntu is an ugly sight, lacking any elegance even when discussing matters of usability and with your sense for beauty  and susceptibility for exploding, you should stay away :)
<thorwil> http://www.webupd8.org/2010/12/how-to-test-ubuntu-1104-with-unity-in.html
<troy_s> thorwil: The rather uh... poor optics of breaking Wacom support is of significant voice personally.
<troy_s> thorwil: Just a ball of frustration really.
<thorwil> troy_s: over time, the feeling that a lot of things are not like they should be has been growing, but i'm also learning that feeling anger and frustration is pointless, except in the rare case you can act on it in a productive way
<troy_s> thorwil: I was just about to type something like that.
<coz_> troy_s,  hey guy
<troy_s> thorwil: The gut response is to just blame idiocy, but it isn't idiocy. It's just ... unfortunate.
<troy_s> coz_: Cozzie. How are things.
<troy_s> ?
<coz_> troy_s,  not bad ,, how's yourself?
<thorwil> troy_s: there is an ubuntu/unity specific issue with wacom support? i though linux-wacom itself dropped serial support
<troy_s> thorwil: I suppose it speaks back to really focusing on a particular strategy. Everything to everyone will hopefully, as a result of hard learnt experience, result in exposing it as the path of fools and charlatanism.
<coz_> are we talking about Unity here?
<troy_s> thorwil: There is a very specific post that was directly related to it. The bigger issue is that I can't actually even try it really... it's so busted with certain things like Blender and such that it's just a mess.
<troy_s> thorwil: And the chances of anyone really giving things a second try are ... well ... I think history likely reveals the poor optics of that belief.
<troy_s> coz_: Been moderately busy. Just slowing down a bit now thankfully.
<coz_> troy_s,  cool,, rest is always important
<coz_> well it seems that in most ubuntu related channel ,,  there is an overwhelming negativity about Unity
<troy_s> coz_: Never average.
<troy_s> coz_: But I believe the result is a direct problem with averaging. If a target is at nine and one at three, and you average, the aim would land at 6. Missing both.
<troy_s> coz_: Have you seen Malcom Gladwell's piece on that?
<troy_s> coz_: Sheer brilliance that everyone in Libre should watch.
<coz_> troy_s,  no ,, I havent ,, i wouldnt mind seeing however
<troy_s> http://www.ted.com/talks/malcolm_gladwell_on_spaghetti_sauce.html
<troy_s> coz_: In particular, pay close attention to the number 18 at the end.
<troy_s> coz_: I won't spoil it.
<troy_s> coz_: But it is based on real world models and explorations.
<coz_> cool watching now
<troy_s> coz_: Beautifully sums up so much.
<troy_s> coz_: I feel warm and fuzzy when I listen to this.
<coz_> troy_s,  i like him  :)
<troy_s> 05:00 sums up all of the current growing pains with Libre.
<troy_s> (And the fact that there are still hegemony circles that truly _believe_ that there is some grandiose notion of 'good' or 'bad' or 'usability')
<troy_s> It disheartens me when I see this not because the belief exists, but because people of such brilliant mental makeup haven't or are unwilling to examine the foundation.
<coz_> troy_s,  which kinda of "qualifies"  their  "brilliant mental makeup" ...yes?
<troy_s> coz_: I don't believe so. Maybe used to. I don't see they. I see me. I'm prone to the same thing.
<coz_> troy_s, still,,, if these " brilliant mental makeup"  people were that brilliant,,, they would not have missed the mark,,
<troy_s> coz_: It's about factoring the thinking in such a way that the audience can comprehend the possibility that the current working model may have alternate models that could provide more productive (needs citation) outcomes.
<troy_s> coz_: Don't let me interrupt... watch it.
<coz_> ok
<troy_s> 13:28
<troy_s> Someone please tell me that they can't see the glaring similarity to Libre software?
<troy_s> And the obvious connection to the audience. It isn't just about diversity, it is about carefully guided diversity.
<coz_> troy_s,  so far this reminds me of linux in general actually
<troy_s> coz_: It's absolutely brilliant.
<troy_s> "Cooking Universals"
<coz_> :)
<troy_s> 15:38 "The movement from the search for universals to the understanding of variability."
<coz_> troy_s,  absolutely :)
<troy_s> coz_: The end is awesome. 18.
<coz_> excellent :)
<troy_s> 16:34. Awesome.
<coz_> troy_s,  this applies  to many aspects of like,, very buddhistic
<troy_s> "In embracing the diversity of human beings we will find a way to true happiness." Lovely ending.
<coz_> life
<troy_s> coz_: It's an emotionally engaging presentation. I think it works tremendously well to communicate to a good number of Libre folks.
<troy_s> Anyways... off to photocopy. Yay. Can't wait.
<troy_s> LOL
<troy_s> Fantastic seeing you all again. Chat soon.
<coz_> troy_s,  :)
<coz_> troy_s,  TED  is one of my favorites
<coz_> troy_s,   excellent video presentation
<coz_> gah
<coz_> ubuntu should listen carefully to that one
<thorwil> great presentation, indeed
<thorwil> i'd say a lot of such clustering already happens in libre software, but only in cases where people create something for themselves
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-05-15
<vish> thorwil: tried Unity in virtualbox?  it worked for me and then stopped working, (maybe its cause of ATI) you might have better luck
<thorwil> vish: i did and it works somewhat, but the theme breaks again and again
<vish> :s
<thorwil> (terminal will be fine after restarting gnome-session-blah, but nautilus will always come up with the look of the 90ies)
<thorwil> time for a walk :)
<thorwil> vish: so how was your uds? got any interesting news?
<coz_>  hey all
#ubuntu-artwork 2017-05-11
<saltNaCl> is release naming open to public input?
#ubuntu-artwork 2018-05-13
<kashem> how do i get source code of ubuntu studio-18?
