#ubuntu-artwork 2006-03-27
<Tm_T> moin
<Tm_T> hmm, looks like our icon guy isn't here
<cas> too bad, but the icons should be in vector right?
<cas> I noticed it because I have an sized up trashcan, which now looks very blurry
<cas> sorry for the incompleteness for other users, I just wondered why the human icons aren't vector anymore.
<Tm_T> hmm
<Tm_T> not sure but, I think it has something to do with vector rendering in small sizes
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-03-29
<greenwom> lo
<greenwom> anyone home?
<Badm4n> hello
<Badm4n> anyone here ?
<Badm4n> anyone here ?
<MistaED> badm4n: seems a bit quiet, but it is the right place
<Badm4n> i'm looking someone that can help me about console screensaver
<klepas> ahoy
<Badm4n> any 1
<klepas> Badm4n: sorry, not my field
<klepas> moin moin andreasn 
<andreasn> hello klepas
<andreasn> I'm just about to start pulling lapos and mine stuff into tangerine
<andreasn> mostly lapos actually
<andreasn> what are you up to then?
<klepas> i'm writing a gimp article for sitepoint.com
<klepas> i was hoping to get in an outline for what i wanted to write about today
<klepas> good luck for that happening
<klepas> otherwise, Kororaa is being released tomorrow eve and i'm working on some of the artwork for it
<klepas> as they are using tango :)
<andreasn> what was that now again?
<klepas> Kororaa is a livecd based on gentoo
<andreasn> oh, cool
<andreasn> what does gentoo use btw?
<klepas> the remarkable thing about it and why it has been given so much hype is simply because it's the only livecd out there which runs XGL adn Compiz
<klepas> spoke to the dudes who began Kororaa last night after they listened to my presentation at my lug about tango
<klepas> they're interested in supporting tango by including the icon-name-spec and the tango icon set in the livecd
<klepas> and it will be installable from the next release
<klepas> prolly coming out tomorow :)
<andreasn> sounds great!
<klepas> yea
<klepas> second distro to use tango by default
<klepas> :)
<klepas> so my talk was worth it
<andreasn> foresight was first, right+
<andreasn> ?
<klepas> no idea
<klepas> wait, the distro?
<klepas> yea
<klepas> definitely :)
<lapo> hi
<lapo> http://xoomer.virgilio.it/bat/orango-tango/orango-tango-0.0.3.tar.bz2
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-03-30
(andreasn/#ubuntu-artwork) lapo: can I get hold of a package with your latest stuff anywhere so I can push them into tangerine asap?
(andreasn/#ubuntu-artwork) so I can start focusing on other stuff for a while
<klepas> andreasn: http://klepas.org/temp/tango-gaim-icons.tar.gz
<klepas> :)
<klepas> for http://ramnet.se/~nisse/diverse/temp/ubuntu-tango-set/
<klepas> andreasn: i'm off
<klepas> g'night :)
<klepas> exit
<klepas> oops
<klepas> hehe
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-03-31
<klepas> andreasn: ping
<andreasn> klepas: pong
<klepas> andreasn: could you add http://klepas.org/temp/gaim-tango-icons.tar.gz to http://ramnet.se/~nisse/diverse/temp/ubuntu-tango-set/
<andreasn> sure
<klepas> thanks :)
<klepas> http://homepages.picknowl.com.au/leewj/web/Nessa16.jpg
<klepas> done in blender
<klepas> some people have crazy modelling skills :)
<andreasn> oh, neat
<klepas> andreasn: got the tarball?
<andreasn> no, I landed in your blog instead
<klepas> really?
<klepas> oh
<andreasn> was the url correnct?
<klepas> one moment
<klepas> klepas.org/temp/tango-gaim-icons.tar.gz comes up as a tarball for me
<klepas> i mixed up the 'tango' and 'gaim'
<klepas> hehe
<klepas> sorry about that
<andreasn> now it works
<klepas> :)
<klepas> cheers and thanks
<andreasn> it's up
<klepas> thanks
<netdur> did you change notify look?
<dsas> Hiya all.
<klepas> hello
<dsas> Could someone tell me whether gnome applications tend to need per-application theme settings?
<klepas> some do
<klepas> some do not
<klepas> but generally
<klepas> not
<dsas> ok, thanks.
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-04-01
<lapo> hi
<nomed> hi all
<nomed> is there anyone that would be happy to play with xubuntu artwork ?
<nomed> it's not that much work ..
<nomed> we need just a color scheme and maybe fix the logo with that ..
<lapo> nomed: color scheme?
<nomed> lapo, colors that should be used on xubuntu artwork
<nomed> en ex
<lapo> ure, but what you have in mind?
<lapo> sure
<lapo> what about using tango color scheme?
<nomed> lapo, that's what i would
<nomed> i need to have a not just a color palatte ..
<nomed> but even "color scheme"
<nomed> i mean ..
<nomed> having a list of "official" colors
<nomed> it'll be easier to fix the gtk theme
<lapo> isn't it what the color palette is for?
<nomed> gtkrc file for gtk-engine
<lapo> on the wiki I read you are targeting grays, right?
<nomed> lapo, for ex on a gtkrc file i may need to use more then 3 blue
<nomed> lapo, that's an idea
<nomed> mainly for gtkrc theme
<nomed> but the logo should use blue as main color
<lapo> I suck at writing gtkrcs, but I can help with icons
<nomed> lapo, i can fix the ubuntu gtkrc
<lapo> if you target blue as main color the you could just use tango icons
<nomed> if i had a list of colors HEX i can use
<nomed> and that fit well togheter
<nomed> that look nice
<nomed> lapo, i can't use tango icons
<nomed> as they'll not be in main
<nomed> i can use ubuntu icons
<lapo> nomed: the tango palette colors fits well toghether
<nomed> lapo, yep
<nomed> that's true
<lapo> uhm....I think ubuntu icons inherits tango, are you shure it will not be in main?
<nomed> lapo yes
<lapo> bah, that sucks
<nomed> lapo, the problem of tango color palette
<nomed> is that i may need more then 3 blue
<nomed> and more then 3 gray ...
<nomed> and i'll not need orange or green ..
<lapo> there are I think 5 grays
<nomed> lapo, i guess xubuntu icons theme will inherit ubuntu icons theme
<nomed> that's my idea
<lapo> ubuntu icon theme is all orange
<nomed> but with different colors where needed
<nomed> so xubuntu icons theme will have mainly folders
<lapo> nomed: if you do not want orange I fear you'll need a lot of icons, not only the folders
<lapo> nomed: there aren't any "source" files for dapper human icons so recoloring them is a lot of work
<lapo> can't you just push tango in main?
<nomed> i asked to canonical people .. and they were not really happy
<nomed> i'll have a meeting in two days ...
<lapo> can I ask you why?
<nomed> lapo, the answer was ..
<nomed> ubuntu will use its own icon theme
<lapo> If you can put tango in main, I'll do my best to do all the icons you may need
<lapo> btw I'm not going to do icons which are not following tango guidelines
<nomed> lapo, yep ..
<nomed> i really would have tango in main ..
<nomed> but i guess it depends on dholbach
<nomed> lapo, you could for ex play with this :)
<nomed> http://www.dsslive.org/xubuntu/tmp/artworks/html/logos.html
<lapo> your logo is problematic as a icon
<nomed> i know the mouse is too small
<nomed> the problem here is to make it different as much as possible from kubuntu one
<lapo> blue is the color of kubuntu, why don't you taret something else?
<lapo> target even
<nomed> lapo, we do not have artists working on that
<nomed> that was an old proposed logo
<lapo> you may have one at least :-)
<nomed> andreasen proposed himself .. but it looks like he's busy in this period
<nomed> lapo, we really need something ready soon
<nomed> at least for the doc writers
<lapo> if tango goes in I'll find the time :-)
<nomed> ehehe
<nomed> lapo, we do not need just icons ... would you fix even the logo ?
<lapo> sure
<nomed> http://www.dsslive.org/xubuntu/tmp/artworks/svg/
<nomed> once the logo has been done
<nomed> i would make a list of the colors used within the ubuntu gtkrc
<nomed> and find xubuntu suitable ones ...
<nomed> ubuntu #jhjhjh ---> xubuntu ---> #lklklk
<lapo> tango in, I can do it, tango out, sorry nope
<lapo> that's my condition, it's not that I don't want to do it, but I'm doing tango stuff all the time so I want to continue in the tango way
<lapo> and I cannot bear the mishmash that can came out with tango and non tango stuff
<nomed> lapo, i understand
<nomed> my idea was to use tango icons as xubuntu icons theme
<nomed> i'm even patching xfce stuff to use tango icon-utils-naming stuff
<lapo> if you're not happy with something in tango we can try to fix it upstream or privide a xubuntu theme with the different icons
<nomed> so if not for dapper it'll be for dapper +1 ..
<nomed> but that's definitively my direction
<lapo> nomed: if you want a similar look to the human stuff, I can for example recolor the hardware icons in orango tango to fit xubuntu palette
<andreasn> hey there
<lapo> ciao andreasn
<nomed> lapo, i try to figure out how we can use tango icons
<nomed> and if it'll be possible to have them in main
<lapo> cool
<nomed> xubuntu will need an icon theme
<nomed> and tango icons are more complete that Rodent
<lapo> yep, tango is a easy way to have one quickly
* andreasn feels a bit embarrased, as he has promised nomed some new xfce-icons for quite a while now
<nomed> that is the xfce default
<nomed> andreasn, at the moment that's not the probelm :)
<lapo> would be cool to have tango upstream in xfce
<nomed> lapo, at the moment all xfce devel are using tango
<lapo> if you'll go tango, as I said I'll help you with everything you may need, I hope andreasn, time permitting, to do the same
<andreasn> is there a xubuntu-live cd anywhere? I've been a bit eager to try xfce out for quite a while
<nomed> andreasn, not yet
<nomed> waitin for xfce pkges in main
<nomed> there will be soon
<nomed> really soon
<andreasn> perhaps I can just install it in dapper
<lapo> cool
<nomed> xfce has a really cool file manager
<lapo> andreasn: xfce is getting quite nice, the new fm is ubercool
<nomed> and it's really fast mainly
<lapo> nomed: cazzo sei italiano e io son qui che mi sforzo di parlare inglese :-)
<nomed> ehehe
<nomed> gia'
<nomed> lapo, suposing we'll have tango and we can inherit it ...
<nomed> will you fix missing icons eventually ?
<lapo> sure
<nomed> could u confirm this ?
<lapo> yes, giurin giuretta :-)
<nomed> perfect .. that's an important point
<nomed> ehehe
<lapo> I cannot promise I can fix all the missing, I can say I'll do my best
<nomed> lapo, yep
<lapo> (depends a lot on the number of missing icons)
<nomed> but there are really few :)
<lapo> do you know which are the missing ones?
<nomed> most of them will need just a link to existing one
<lapo> I mean, do you know at the moment which are the missing ones?
<nomed> http://www.dsslive.org/mediawiki/index.php/Roadmap-0.3-1:XfceTheme
<lapo> since you're at patching, would be better to patch the applications
<nomed> lapo, i'm not an xfce upstreamer
<nomed> it'll need time to patch xfce directly
<nomed> it'll be meybe possible for dapper +1
<nomed> maybe
<lapo> you could patch icon-naming-utils tho
<lapo> I think dobey could probably accept patches for xfce
<nomed> lapo, yep
<nomed> that's my idea
<lapo> cool
<nomed> i asked already to dobey
<nomed> and he was fine with that
<lapo> the missing icons are not that much, I can easily do those one, you'll have to explain me the meaning of most of them tho :-)
<nomed> sure
<nomed> lapo, it looks like to inherit tango in xubuntu theme will depend on the missing or broken icons
<nomed> i mean if we can cover all the rodent icons ... there shouldn't be problems on using it
<lapo> what that means?
<nomed> most of rodent icons are already in tango
<nomed> or vice versa
<lapo> if the missing one are what you showed me, we can do it
<lapo> ones
<lapo> what you mean with broken?
<andreasn> nomed: I also have a Icon=stock_terminal-colors for you
<andreasn> only in scalable yet though
<nomed> that exists in tango (the meaning) but that has a different name
<nomed> andreasn, i guess it should be a little step to convert all those icons in pngs
<nomed> and in different sizes
<lapo> no problem with pngs
<andreasn> what svg library does xfce use? librsvg?
<lapo> perhaps there could be problems with target sizes
<lapo> if you don't need anything less then 48x48 we are ok, if you need 32x32 we are pretty fscked up
<nomed> lapo, menu uses 24
<lapo> no probs, tango have 22x22
<nomed> that should be the smaller 
<lapo> tango makefiles alredy produces 24x24 icons adding 1px padding to 22x22
<lapo> thta's not really noticiable
<lapo> the sizes tango cover well are 16x16, 22x22, 24x24, 48x48 and up
<nomed> lapo, yep
<nomed> that's all xfce needs
<lapo> so we're cool :-)
<andreasn> 24x24 is only via icon-naming-utils, right?
<lapo> andreasn: nope, icon naming-utils don't know anything about mangling pngs or converting svgs to png
<lapo> andreasn: the makefiles do the magic, easy things btw
<andreasn> ok, nice
<lapo> nomed: do you want playing tango (nice) or tangoified ubuntu stuff (silly) for hardware? :-)
<nomed> lapo, i like more tango ones
<lapo> cool
<nomed> but as i told it doesn't depend just on me
<lapo> ok, let me know what you all  decide and I'll do the leg work
<nomed> k
<lapo> andreasn: I hope you can find the time to help btw :-)
<nomed> i hope to know something soon
<andreasn> lapo: me too
<lapo> nomed: calamandrei at gmail
<andreasn> but university studies are calming down a bit no, so that shouldn't be a problem
<lapo> nomed: where you came from?
<lapo> andreasn: cool
<nomed> genova
<lapo> we are not that distant, perhaps we can talk about it behind a beer
<nomed> where are you from ?
<lapo> pescia, near lucca
<nomed> lapo, cool .. so that's possible :)
<lapo> I'll be in genova one of the next sundays, my gf decided that I wanted to see the acquario :-)
<nomed> i'm somtime in PISA
<nomed> cool :)
<lapo> ugh...ok, that's not your fault
<nomed> LOL
<lapo> you're not from pisa, RIGHT?! :-)
<nomed> no no genoa
<lapo> uhm...ok, I was a bit scared for a moment :-)
<lapo> ma bada te se devo sparare bischerate su pisa in inglese! :-)
<nomed> :D
<lapo> ciao
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-04-02
<dholbach> heya
<lapo> nomed: any new on the xubuntu front?
<lapo> I'm thinking about the logo, are you really sure you'll want the one you showed me?
<nomed> lapo, not yet ..
<nomed> lapo, i can't make decisions .. alone
<nomed> let's say we can vote ..
<nomed> if you're inspired and you came up with something amzaing and cool ..
<nomed> then i'm not really sure i'll want that one .. and probably even all the others xubuntu people :)
<nomed> lapo, but the idea is to keep that logo .. and to change just the colors 
<nomed> to make it "more" different from the kubuntu one
<lapo> talking about colors, the blues of the logo are, well lousy
<lapo> it needs something vivid
<lapo> and someting not blue, since blue is kubuntu
<nomed> lapo, yep
<lapo> I'd say green 
<nomed> i totally agree
<lapo> green goes weel with tango icons
<lapo> and if you *REALLY* want i could do green tango folders
<lapo> even if the blue one are ok with green
<Tm_T> ugh
<Tm_T> now you're awake...
<nomed> lapo, if it'll not be too much work it would be nice to show your mocups to the whole xubuntu team
<Tm_T> http://www.tm-travolta.net/pics/k-ed-ubuntu/images.html
<lapo> I have no mockups
<Tm_T> something I played around ;)
<nomed> lapo, anyway i guess blue should be used ..
<nomed> and i was thinking on adding some gray ..
<lapo> grey is boooring
<lapo> win95 was grey
<nomed> lapo, have u seen graphite theme ?
<dholbach> does anybody know if andreasn wanted to show up later today?
<lapo> nope, link?
<lapo> dholbach: dunno, if ou need orange icons you can try to ask me, I send him all of my stuff tho
<dholbach> rocknroll
<dholbach> i wanted to tell him, how far I got with Tangerine
<dholbach> and wanted him to merge from my tree
<lapo> I think he is at least as far as I am with orangotango
<nomed> lapo, http://xfce-look.org/content/show.php?content=35444
<dholbach> there were some bugs in two Makefile.am
<dholbach> i fixed them and now the package builds
<nomed> this is ho i think xubuntu should look like ..
<lapo> dholbach: you should really not do the mishmash with tango and git icons
<dholbach> lapo: that's not my call
<lapo> dholbach: mine?
<dholbach> I care about the packaging, the building and everything :)
<dholbach> Mark has a lot of influence on the decision
<lapo> dholbach: if mark prefer a gnome icon to the tango one I'll redo it in tango style
<lapo> please ask before mishmash
<dholbach> it will be discussed
<dholbach> and I don't think I'll have a loud voice on this
<dholbach> http://daniel.holba.ch/ubuntu/ic/ has the latest
<lapo> dholbach: it's nice to see how better are the tango styled icons :-)
<dholbach> I suggest taking the page as base of discussion on ubuntu-art or somewhere else makes most sense
<dholbach> i will merge from Andreas tree hourly and build a package which is integrated into this page
<dholbach> and I'll do uploads to the real ubuntu archive every now and then
<dholbach> but I'm not deciding and it's not my call anywhere :)
<lapo> dholbach: btw that compare page is a bit "unfair" you contront 48x48 to 22x22 icons
<dholbach> that's a bug
<dholbach> i'm working on it (and some other things)
<dholbach> if you click on the icons you get a popup
<lapo> dholbach: can you fix it before the discussion? :-)
<dholbach> i have other stuff to do as well
<dholbach> but i will look into it, promise
<lapo> nice guy :-)
<lapo> dholbach: a have some more recolored icons on my disk btw
<dholbach> lapo: andreas will merge them in
<lapo> yeah, just to let you know, that's there's more stuff coming
<dholbach> please understand, I work on a lot of other stuff too and I don't want to be the point where people send their pictures :)
<dholbach> I'm really happy with your icons
<dholbach> they really rock
<dholbach> and I'm grateful for your guys' work on it
<lapo> tnx, happy you like them
<dholbach> :-)
<lapo> I'd be happier if mark actually likes them :-)
<dholbach> I need to finish another feature for him, then I'll mail him
<lapo> dholbach: i spotted out this one: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=141227&highlight=lapo
<lapo> tango 80, human 28 :-)
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-03-26
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-artwork.log
<Jordan_U> I have to congratulate you guys on Feisty so far, you guys make brown look good :)
<bersace> kwwii: i updated the gtkrc
<bersace> the insensitive color was grey
<bersace> well, i guess we have the time
<kwwii> bersace: I'm working on that stuff now
<kwwii> bersace: I'll let you know when I am done
<bersace> kwwii: nice
<kwwii> bersace: didn
<bersace> ?
<kwwii> 't you mention something about the human icons?
<kwwii> sorry my network connection is really slow today
<bersace> the Open menu shows "missing" icon if you don't set explicitly icon-theme-name in gtkrc
* bersace pushed gtkrc update
<bersace> ok, 'ill make a tarball update for gnome-look
<kwwii> man, this network connection is killing me
<kwwii> bersace: hrm, in the version I have both the Human and HumanList gtkrc has the icon-theme-name set to "Human" ... isn't that correct
<kwwii> ?
<bersace> kwwii: yes
<bersace> the problem is that HumanCircle has not
<kwwii> ahhhh, now I get it
<bersace> try HumanCircle and pop up the "Option" menu
<bersace> :)
<kwwii> hehe, Human Circle does not have a gtkrc at all
<bersace> :)
<bersace> well, Humancircle is  just outdate
<bersace> d
<bersace> edgy had 5 friends ? isn't it ?
<bersace> where is the new gloss ?
<bersace> kwwii: i have to go at university, i let you
<bersace> i pushed latest version with latest gtkrc tune
<bersace> also, the tarball is uploaded to http://bersace03.free.fr/pub/GNOME/gdm/HumanList.tar.gz
<kwwii> cool, see you
<bersace> and published in gnome-look
<bersace> i guess all the rest is up to you ;)
<kwwii> hehe, yeah, it is really old
<bersace> would be nice to have a HumanCircle maintainer just like i'm the HumanList maintainer
<kwwii> thanks again for th help
<bersace> nop
<bersace> see u soon
<adamant1988> Who is responsible for the Ubuntu artwork now?
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-03-28
<tonyyarusso> What tools / methods are used for making themes and icons?  I suppose icons themselves are probably an Inkscape sort of thing, but what about window decorations and packaging everything as an installable theme?
<kwwii> most of that is code
<tonyyarusso> dang
<tonyyarusso> kwwii: what sort of code?
<wedderbur1> i use inkscape for the icons
<kwwii> the artwork is mainly done with inkscape, the pieces of the hardcoded theme engines for windeco and styles are pixmaps
<kwwii> tonyyarusso: C I would guess :-)
<wedderbur1> inkscape for the usplash and some gimp love
<wedderbur1> and inkscape for the gnome-splashs
<wedderbur1> ooo
<wedderbur1> wrong one
<wedderbur1> :( thought this was another channel
<kwwii> :-)
<wedderbur1> :-[x100
<tonyyarusso> It would be nice if there were slick qizard type things around for just whipping together custom stuff easily
<kwwii> tonyyarusso: yeah, that would be really cool
<wedderbur1> sorry all
<kwwii> np
<tonyyarusso> kwwii: Is it feasible code-wise do you think?
<troy_s> wedderbur1: Think python
<troy_s> wedderbur1: Deadly easy
<wedderbur1> troy_s: ?
<troy_s> erk... wrong pointer :)
<troy_s> sorry weddy
<troy_s> that was more aimed at tonyyarusso
<tonyyarusso> ah
<wedderbur1> i c :-p
<troy_s> tonyyarusso: If you are thinking about mucking for mock, bash works fine with imagemagick.  If you want a little more polished, try python with imagemagick and a GUI binding like GTK / Qt etc.
<tonyyarusso> troy_s: I'm keep that in mind - gotta start learning a bit of code here and there it seems
<tonyyarusso> troy_s: Are there tutorials floating about about how this all works that I can reference?
<troy_s> tonyyarusso: As far as installation goes, Python is probably the most effective means of concat'ing path names etc.  Again, it is similar to what Daniel is attempting to get done for the 'artwork' packaging, but it requires a wider scope such as sounds and other design related elements.
<troy_s> tonyyarusso: Python is super simple
<troy_s> tonyyarusso: Your best bet is python.org if you want to haggle into scripting.
<troy_s> tonyyarusso: Personally though, if you want to automate some sort of workflow
<troy_s> tonyyarusso: I strongly encourage you to learn imagemagick or graphicsmagick -- it has all the tools required for a very high end imaging workflow.
<tonyyarusso> troy_s: noted
<troy_s> tonyyarusso: If it is a workflow issue, simply start mucking with im and pay close attention to the repeated tasks you do.
<troy_s> tonyyarusso: Start simple by automating those simple repeated tasks and build outwards.
<tonyyarusso> troy_s: I more meant for how the artwork actually works - where things go and in what form, etc.  I can 'man imagemagick' to learn how to get there.
<troy_s> tonyyarusso: Well the traditional 'art' (limited description) components are well known and kwwii or someone else who has current 'Ubuntu' state knowledge will be able to help you more in terms of directories etc.
<troy_s> tonyyarusso: That said, there are many elements that Ubuntu won't touch that you might (like panel layouts etc.)
<troy_s> tonyyarusso: And that requires looking into things like gconf etc.
<troy_s> tonyyarusso: Again, it is an evolving concept at this point -- global design theming is entirely new territory.
<troy_s> tonyyarusso: Hope that helps a little...
<tonyyarusso> troy_s: I think so - thanks
<troy_s> kwwii: Do you think we get good mileage out of taking your current wallpaper and providing the proper backdrops to the icons that show monitors?
<troy_s> as per bug 63119
<ubotu> Malone bug 63119 in human-icon-theme "Human missing Trash, Network, Computer, Open Folder SVGs" [Medium,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/63119
<troy_s> one of the comments
<kwwii> troy_s: yeah, I was thinking about that too...although I have another (darker) wallpaper ready...once I get a decision on that we can decide
<troy_s> kwwii: Indeed... on that scale it should be quite easy to generate and a quick integration assuming we can track down all of the icons.
<kwwii> troy_s: I guess the biggest problem is that we do not have the svgs of those icons
<troy_s> kwwii: I think we do
<troy_s> kwwii: I know of at least _one_ that has the terminal that is in svg -- retrofitting shouldn't be too hard.
<kwwii> yeah, the screensaver icon has an svg
<troy_s> in /usr/share/icons/Human/scalable I know there are at least _one_
<kwwii> but I could not find either the terminal or the network
<troy_s> possibly more
<troy_s> kwwii: Needless to say, spline copying is pretty simple
<troy_s> take all of about 10 minutes at the most
<kwwii> if you feel up to it, feel free :-) there is an open bug about those icons not being scalable
<kwwii> we fixed a problem in the theme file today for the ones with SVGs but that won't help the ones without
<troy_s> interesting... i can probably do it quite quickly assuming that i can dig up the time
<kwwii> I know that feeling :-)
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-03-30
<lapo> hi there
<cla> hi here
<cla> ;)
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-04-01
<spikeb> any of you folks work on the offical artwork, or is that all just the boss and the one guy only
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-03-24
<psyke83> _MMA_, I just sent the latest revision of the theme, although the "rename file" fix isn't done yet
<_MMA_> psyke83: ok. Ill most likely look over it tomorrow.
<psyke83> sure thing
<_MMA_> psyke83: I looked now. :P So besides the metacity/scrollbar fix, that's it?
<psyke83> I think so; did I fix any other bugs today? :P
<psyke83> I'm sleepy now, so I forget... heh
<psyke83> I only changed the spacing in the metacity-1.xml file, nothing else
<psyke83> and yep, I think I changed just the progressbar and slider background
<_MMA_> Ok. Tomorrow we should work out the white text when renaming files.
<_MMA_> But you should sleep. I will be soon. :P
<psyke83> I will, just waiting for a scan to finish on my hd before I turn off (problem with SMART)
<_MMA_> Ahh...
<psyke83> if you catch MacSlow, see if he can help re: the nautilus bug; I tried the gnome, gtk and nautilus channels (here and on irc.gnome.org), and nobody answered
<psyke83> I downloaded the source code and found two glade files,  but they don't cover the renaming part of the interface
<_MMA_> Ok. Ill try to get him in here tomorrow to talk directly.
<nothlit`core> grrr, someone deleted the template attachments about a week ago
<_MMA_> psyke83: Found another "white text bug". Edit the prefs on FF3. You'll see it.
<_MMA_> nothlit`core: Since you seemed to have dropped off over this cycle I plan on taking things as far as wiki management for Ibex. I however did not mess with the templates.
<psyke83> _MMA_, change the input background colour to #888888 and see what you think
<psyke83> it introduces other problems, though, e.g. grey users listed in xchat
<_MMA_> People are gonna hate that.
<nothlit`core> _MMA_: ahh ok, if you see anything missing, just ping me :)
<psyke83> _MMA_, well, I'm really afraid that the Firefox problem is hardcoded
<_MMA_> Sure. We might need to go back to the gray text.
<psyke83> _MMA_, it's possible to set grey text for everything, but then make exceptions, such as button, combobox, tab and frame colours
<psyke83> I mean, such as the above being white
<psyke83> we can use the shade function within those sections
<psyke83> will I give it a try and see how it works?
<_MMA_> psyke83: Sure. If you can work on that, that would be great.
<nothlit`core> ackt, thats ibex lol, i haven't fleshed out the FAQ yes, but the wiki is pretty set up, have i been lacking in my duties?
<_MMA_> I'm trying to work out a xsane issue right now as well. People can't use their scanner as normal users.
<nothlit`core> well the first user gets added the the correct groups, but additional users you have to make sure to do that-- or is it just broken?
<_MMA_> nothlit`core: Its just broke somehow. sudo xsane works though.
<_MMA_> bug 205496
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 205496 in xsane "[Hardy]Xsane needs root to operate scanner" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/205496
<_MMA_> nothlit`core: I haven't really seen you active in here on on the ML for some time. I think Ken needs someone a little more active throughout the cycle.
<_MMA_> nothlit`core: I still think the wiki needs a major overhaul. I can never figure out where things are.
<nothlit`core> ahh, interesting
<nothlit`core> The bar is not enough?
<_MMA_> nothlit`core: SO at UDS I'll be talking with Ken to see how it can be better structured. It really just might be something that's too complex.
<nothlit`core> well i may be going to uds as well, so we can probably lay things out there
<_MMA_> nothlit`core: Personally, the bar makes no sense. I dont know how it relates to where Im at or things are half the time.
<_MMA_> Sure. That would be cool.
<psyke83> _MMA_, I'm getting close to fixing the Firefox prob
<psyke83> it's a pain in the a$$, I have to edit the theme and put wildcard matches for widgets ;)
<psyke83> I know the widget is Gtk*View, heh
<psyke83> any sign of macslow?
<_MMA_> psyke83: Oh sorry. Ill see if he can come in.
<_MMA_> psyke83: Looks like he's swamped working on Compiz. Next week might be more free.
<psyke83> no prob... I found the name of the widget for Firefox, working on the fix now
<_MMA_> k
<_MMA_> Maybe that will fix gnome-control-center as well. :)
<psyke83> _MMA_, I'm a bit stuck. I know the widget that draws the affected background of the firefox Preferences, but not the part that renders text
<_MMA_> Weird.
<psyke83> _MMA_, I've found where to fix, but it will cause all the text in firefox to change to the text colour we define... do you want it grey?
<_MMA_> psyke83: Hmm... I imaging that will be problematic. Can you test different scenarios and get back to me?
<psyke83> I've been encouraged to file a bug against Firefox, so it will get fixed there (eventually)
<psyke83> it's using GtkInvisible, which is nonstandard
<_MMA_> Yeah. Bastards. :P
<psyke83> this one may take a firefox patch, from us or upstream
<psyke83> what's the problem with gnome-control-center ?
<_MMA_> Basically the same deal.
<_MMA_> WHite text on white background.
<psyke83> hmm on gutsy?
<_MMA_> Yep
<psyke83> because I see no problem here
<_MMA_> ?
<psyke83> I'm running Hardy
<_MMA_> With you new mods correct?
<psyke83> yep, although it's temporarily screwed while I'm debugging the issue
<_MMA_> Well wait. Click on a cestion or a icon.
<_MMA_> *section
<psyke83> hold on while I restore the theme to working order
<_MMA_> Or switch the theme to see.
<_MMA_> np
<psyke83> _MMA_, no, there's no problem on my system
<psyke83> it's obeying the proper theme colours
<psyke83> do you have a hardy install available?
<_MMA_> Yeah. Im looking at it. Might be because of some new mod you did.
<_MMA_> I get a screen with lots of icons but invisible text.
<psyke83> I don't think that I fixed any bugs there
<_MMA_> Until you highlight a section that it.
<_MMA_> gnome-contol-center right?
<_MMA_> gnome-control-center
<_MMA_> Take a screenshot if you can.
<psyke83> ah, right :(
<psyke83> sorry, I missed that
<psyke83> hmm
<psyke83> _MMA_, unless I can get the gnome-control-center issue fixed, I think it's better we go back to grey text ;)
<psyke83> as for the firefox issue, whatever we change the colour to, almost the entire interface will change as well
<psyke83> it's definitely a bug
<_MMA_> psyke83: Well If we can keep the "revert to gray text" thing on the back burner and find a solution that would rock. In the end I'm not against reverting.
<_MMA_> We have all week until I have to push these changes so we have a little bit of time.
<psyke83> _MMA_, bear with me: change the input box background to #BFBFBF and give it ten minutes of use, then tell me what you think
<psyke83> keep normal text to white
<psyke83> the only problem is green text in terminals... gah, this is difficult ;)
<_MMA_> psyke83: Ill test what you send me. I just cant tinker now. I'm on the phone with the insurance co about my car.
<psyke83> ah I won't disturb, don't worry. I'll try to sort out gnome-control-center, we just need to fix that and firefox
<_MMA_> No disturbance. I'm sorry I can't give it my full attention ATM.
<psyke83> aptoncd uses hardcoded foreground colours, I will make a bug report with patch to launchpad
<_MMA_> k
<psyke83> firefox3 workaround: http://connogriofa.googlepages.com/gtkrc
<_MMA_> psyke83: And what does it affect if we try to set it to black?
<psyke83> in firefox: the bookmarks toolbar, find bar, status bar, all preferences text, inactive menu items
<psyke83> as for other apps, it doesn't affect anything
<psyke83> basically most of the firefox interface is using gtkinvisible to draw text, which is just wrong
<_MMA_> Ahh..... I see. Well, this is fine to me for know. Let's work with this for know. See how it feels.
<psyke83> yep
<_MMA_> s/know/now
<psyke83> _MMA_, gnome-control-center is fixed, but the previous issue with gconf-editor's "Name" is back
<psyke83> the problem was with the hack I wanted MacSlow to check
<_MMA_> psyke83: Ok. Put it in, but comment it out with some notes so we can talk with him later about it.
<psyke83> it changes a lot of other things, let me work on it some more
<_MMA_> np
<psyke83> _MMA_, it's fixed; a terrible hack, but fixed
<_MMA_> Cool.
<psyke83> _MMA_, http://connogriofa.googlepages.com/gtkrc
<_MMA_> psyke83: Can you send the meta city again? I think I messed something up here.
<_MMA_> *metacity
<Cimi> ehich bug?
<Cimi> *which
<psyke83> http://connogriofa.googlepages.com/metacity-theme-1.xml
<_MMA_> Cimi: Something about how FF3 used GTK.
<Cimi> which kind of bug you get?
<_MMA_> psyke83: Thanx. Ill test now.
<psyke83> cimi: we're working around some bugs in applications that display white text on white background with our UbuntuStudio-Mod theme
<psyke83> oops, he's gone
<psyke83> ah wb
<psyke83> cimi: we're working around some bugs in applications that display white text on white background with our UbuntuStudio-Mod theme
<_MMA_> Cimi: Looks like they are using gtkinvisible to draw text.
<Cimi> one shit application is rhythmbox
<Cimi> it has hardcoded colors for the sidebar
<_MMA_> Thats mostly what we're running into. Apps that hardcode colors rather than using the gtkrc.
 * Cimi hates them
<Cimi> gimp for example
<Cimi> is hardcoding focus for the buttons
<_MMA_> AptOnCD is another.
<psyke83> Cimi, can you help me out a little? I need to define exceptions for certain widgets, but I don't know the name
<Cimi> psyke83, experience engine can help you
<Cimi> from what I know
<psyke83> for example, I want to define an exception for the fg[NORMAL] of "Name, Size, Type" in Nautilus and other applications
<Cimi> benzea implemented a function to print the widget namings
<_MMA_> psyke83: Cool. Though this isn't the optimal solution we can now at least see the text in FF3 and gnome-control-center.
<Cimi> but the best solution is to open bugreports
<psyke83> _MMA_, I've broken the "expander arrows" again, but I will fix soon
<_MMA_> psyke83: Ahh.. I see. Ok. Keep up the killer work. Thanx so far. :)
 * _MMA_ goes back to looking at new cars.
<psyke83> _MMA_, http://connogriofa.googlepages.com/gtkrc
<psyke83> that fixes the expander arrows
<psyke83> I think I'll call it quits tonight, lest I go completely insane :)
<psyke83> but this needs a lot of testing and refinement (I used wildcard matches to isolate the special case classes; we need to identify them properly)
<psyke83> Cimi, would you by any chance be able to guess what this is? widget_class "*x*ent*.*men*Label*"
<Cimi> ?
<Cimi> the only thing I'm sure
<psyke83> I'm trying to identify the class for drawing the items in the main window of gnome-control-center, to create a special case
<Cimi> is that it is really ugly
<psyke83> yes it's awful, and I want to fix it, but I can only do it through trial and error
<_MMA_> Well that was helpfull.
<Cimi> maybe the best way to do is opening control center source code and read something? :) don't you think?
<psyke83> Cimi, yes, but I'm not an expert at reading source for gtk stuff, and there's no glade files to help
<Cimi> you should learn
<psyke83> ... ok, thanks
<_MMA_> Cimi: Really, it was a simple question. People also learn this way.
<_MMA_> No need to RTFM.
<Cimi> _MMA_, to help him, I need to RTFM
<Cimi> I don't know the source code of every application
<psyke83> Cimi, if that's necessary, then it's ok. I thought you could guess visually, since you're aware of the common gtk widgets
<_MMA_> Cimi: Well not in here. That's not how we do things. We have poked through code. Do not RTFM in here.
<_MMA_> Cimi: I do realize that some of it is a language barrier but one could make the argument that "you should learn" English better just as easy as someone should learn how to better read code.
<Cimi> unfortunately
<psyke83> no it's alright, guys. I just wondered if Cimi could spot the possible class name from looking at the interface, not the code, but it's fine
<Cimi> I haven't got an english teacher at school, at least he was not doing her job of teaching students the language
<Cimi> everything I know I've learnt from myself
<psyke83> I'm checking all the apps installed by default, and I'm not seeing any problems yet, but I hope to clean up the theme properly
<Cimi> psyke83, I have to look at the code
<psyke83> Cimi, yep, and I don't want you to go to a lot of trouble, so it's fine
<Cimi> or printing the widget class trough the engine
<psyke83> now that sounds more interesting ;)
<Cimi> psyke83, I've already said it
<Cimi> <Cimi> psyke83, experience engine can help you
<Cimi> <Cimi> from what I know
<psyke83> experience engine, I'll take a look
<_MMA_> psyke83: Gah. Now we have a issue with Deluge torrent. Looks like the expander arrow fix is #525252. Or something like that?
<psyke83> _MMA_, I'm not finding any expander arrows, do you have a lot of torrents in your list or something?
<_MMA_> No. The issue is the text in the "status" column.
<_MMA_> The bg is the same color as the text that says "Downloading".
<_MMA_> Wait.. Hahaha.
<_MMA_> 1 sec.
<psyke83> I see
<psyke83> was it like that before?
<_MMA_> psyke83: Ill get a shot.
<_MMA_> I dont think so.
<psyke83> I see it
<psyke83> I have bad news... the original UbuntuStudio theme is the same
<psyke83> hmm no, can u take a screenshot please?
<_MMA_> Im looking at it now. Its not. The color before and after the progressbar is different.
<_MMA_> Ill take 2.
<_MMA_> http://mma.users.ubuntustudio.org/OG.png
<_MMA_> http://mma.users.ubuntustudio.org/MOD.png
<_MMA_> psyke83: ^^^
<psyke83> ok, let me check this out, although it should be an easy fix
<psyke83> *should be* ;)
<_MMA_> :P
<Cimi> psyke83, EXPERIENCE_PRINT_WIDGET_PATH=true
<psyke83> Cimi, thanks; I compiled and installed the engine and an experience theme, but it's not working. I'll try it tomorrow
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-03-25
<psyke83> _MMA_, I've got the fix for deluge ready, one min
<_MMA_> hahaha. :P
<psyke83> _MMA_, it's more difficult to fix that I imagined, this is the best I can do: http://connogriofa.googlepages.com/gtkrc
<psyke83> it's still dark text, but the "unfilled" background is lighter
 * _MMA_ grabbs
<psyke83> if I lighten the text, then the expander arrows in gconf/nautilus will break; we need to find a way to fix that better
<psyke83> despite the hack, it looks nice IMHO ;)
<_MMA_> (testing now)
<_MMA_> I can see the text now. :) What else will this effect?
<psyke83> nothing, I can guarantee you that.
<psyke83> MUAHAHAHHAHA
<psyke83> (I don't know, heh)
<psyke83> I think it only effects that particular widget, but we need to test
<_MMA_> Cool. :P
<_MMA_> Are you happy with this for now?
<_MMA_> Take tomorrow for testing?
<psyke83> sure, we can do that
<_MMA_> psyke83: I do have another "white text on white background case but this should be a upstream bug.
<psyke83> in what app?
<_MMA_> Audacity has this "Welcome" screen where it looks like they hardcode the background color to white. Which sux for white text.
<_MMA_> (Im guessing they hardcode)
<psyke83> is Audacity installed with UbuntuStudio?
<_MMA_> I believe so. I think it came in at great user request.
<psyke83> yes, that's hardcoded
<psyke83> I'm not touching the theme for that, it's non-standard :)
<_MMA_> Naa... We'll just file a bug. :P
<_MMA_> Get some sleep. I'll spend tomorrow opening up and going through every app/dialog I can think of.
<kwwii> bersace: btw, I had to change the gdm theme look again
<kwwii> it was vetoed from on high
<_MMA_> kwwii: What?!!
<Tm_T> heh
<Cimi> ubuntu cairo package is buggied and causes glitches
<_MMA_> Cimi: Best to file a bug against the package. Nobody in here can do anything about it.
<Cimi> _MMA_, which version you're running?
<_MMA_> Of?
<Cimi> cairo
<_MMA_> No clue.
<Cimi> could you take a look?
<_MMA_> Not atm. Im trying to help work out a issue with xsane.
 * Cimi hates ubuntu and its mass patches, they ruin the original software in most cases
<Cimi> ok no problem
<_MMA_> Even then, I cant *do* anything about it.
<Cimi> _MMA_, just tell me if the bug is reproduceable
<_MMA_> ok
<kwwii> _MMA_: don't hate me
<bersace> kwwii: hi
<bersace> kwwii: did you commited your changes ?
<bersace> actually i dislike the new enlighten pinken bg
<bersace> kwwii: the bounding box is nice however
<bersace> kwwii: could you make the backend a little more brown
<bersace> ?
<bersace> rather than pink
<bersace> kwwii: pushed updated HumanList
<kwwii> bersace: yeah, I tried to stay away from pink but it might need a bit more tweaking
<psyke83> hi
<psyke83> kwwii, just curious, but is Human-Mod going to be accepted for Hardy?
<kwwii> psyke83: not sure yet
<psyke83> kwwii, I found a bug in it (progress bars don't use the right orange background). I'm going to try and fix that for you, just in case you can include it
<kwwii> psyke83: please do, and send me a copy :-)
<psyke83> I will :)
<psyke83> kwwii, a little help, do you know the name of the widget that seems to be the same as GtkProgressBar? You can see it in Network-Manager, Deluge, Gnome-System-Monitor, but it's NOT the same as the bar in twf... any idea?
<kwwii> psyke83: nope, no idea what it is called
<kwwii> I wonder why they make an extra widget just for that
<psyke83> apprently it's the same widget, but my theme doesn't seem to support it properly in some situations
<kwwii> hehe, yet another bug in human
<psyke83> kwwii, I've sent the update to your email addy, it's fixed now :)
<psyke83> it's a bug that was exposed from the Color Picker stuff, not Human's fault this time ;)
<kwwii> psyke83: excellent got it
<kwwii> I'll look into it tomorrow
<psyke83> sure thing
<kwwii> or later tonight, depending ;-)
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-03-26
<DShepherd> where can i find the logs for the last ubuntu meeting
<DShepherd> ?
<DShepherd> kwwii, ping
<DShepherd> ^^^
<cody-somerville> _MMA_, I got my passport last night :)
<_MMA_> \m/
<kwwii> they are giving those things out to anyone these days :p
 * _MMA_ readies his plastic gun and explosives.
<kwwii> hehe, with the way your country is listening in on people I would pay attention to what you say :p
<_MMA_> What!? "Your country"?
<_MMA_> I'm so gonna kick you in Prague.
<kwwii> lol
<kwwii> if anyone here knows anything about packaging we need help!
<kwwii> we need to add symlinks to the human icon theme so that nautilus uses the right icons
<_MMA_> kwwii: If its in BZR I can help tomorrow.
<kwwii> _MMA_: it is, my problem is that it uses makefiles
<_MMA_> kwwii: Then the links need to be added to the make files.
<_MMA_> kwwii: If you install the package "bzr-builddeb" (or something like that) you can test build a .deb locally with the "bzr-buildpackage --native" command.
<_MMA_> After a "bzr commit" that is. You dont need to push it to LP.
<kwwii> _MMA_: it seems that it is a matter of creating a .links file in the debian directory
<_MMA_> kwwii: Im unsure what that does. *Sounds* like it will create the links at build time.
 * cody-somerville pokes kwwii 
<kwwii> _MMA_: yepp, exactly :-)
<cody-somerville> kwwii, I can help you
<kwwii> cody-somerville: well, if you know how to add a .link file in a debian dir and want to fix a bug, yes :-)
<kwwii> nautilus uses the fd.o icon names directly now
<kwwii> so we need to add symlinks from the existing icons to the new names
<cody-somerville> Okay.
<cody-somerville> Is the package maintained in bazaar?
<kwwii> yepp, it is human-icon-theme
<kwwii> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=506532
<kwwii> that link has a list of the new names
<cody-somerville> Ok
<cody-somerville> I'll look at it in a minute or two
<kwwii> cool, it is only a few icons (the list looks long though :p )
<psyke83> kwwii, were there any probs with Human-Mod?
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-03-27
<cody-somerville> Oh
<cody-somerville> That reminds me...
<kwwii> psyke83: nope, until now it looks pretty perfect
<kwwii> I've asked about including it
<vaughn> I've been on the Ubuntu Art mailing list for a while following the goings-ons, how do I best get involved myself?
<kwwii> vaughn: follow the mailing list, wiki and hand around here
<kwwii> vaughn: but best of all would be to do some artwork :-)
<vaughn> Thanks kwwii so if I feel like an icon needs an update I should just make it and submit it?
<kwwii> basically, yes
<vaughn> Got it, excellent
<kwwii> happy drawing
 * kwwii goes bowling
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-03-28
<thiemster> anyone need any artwork done for hardy? anything at all and i'm glad to help
<superm1> Hi folks.  Just wanted to follow up on this http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=733479
<superm1> Make sure it doesn't get forgotten :)
<kwwii> superm1: no worries, not forgotten
<superm1> okay very good :)
<kwwii> cody-somerville: you didn't get to the .links file for human yet, did you?
<kwwii> as in, I just started doing it, so if you have please stop me :p
<cody-somerville> kwwii, No, I haven't gotten around to it yet
<kwwii> cool, I'll take care of it
<cody-somerville> Thanks
<kwwii> it is actually probably better that I do it anyway, as this is information that I really should stay on top of
 * cody-somerville nods.
<cody-somerville> _MMA_, I'm now coming to FOSSCamp too :)
<_MMA_> Cool.
 * _MMA_ doesn't get into Prague until noon Saturday and will be damn tired.
<cody-somerville> I'm arriving Friday morning
<_MMA_> I would have but I had a 8hr layover in NY If I left Thursday and I wasn't gonna do that.
 * cody-somerville leaves Thursday.
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-03-29
<j1mc> _MMA_: ping
<_MMA_> Yo
<j1mc> hi... i think i saw you in the xubuntu meeting the other day.
<_MMA_> Yep
<j1mc> cody has referenced you to me a few times.  i'm reworking the xubuntu artwork wiki, and was wondering if you could just take a quick look at it with me.
<j1mc> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Artwork
<j1mc> would you mind?
<j1mc> the beginning sucks... but...
<_MMA_> Sure. I do have to be quick though as my wife is about to kill me if I dont get off this thing. :P Sunday on will be best to really give it attention.
<j1mc> ok... should i just send an email?
<j1mc> i'm not on the artwork ML
<j1mc> i'm just wondering if the Get Involved part...
<_MMA_> Ill look for a sec now.
<j1mc> is it necessary?  does someone need to be a part of the Artwork Team to contribute to Xubuntu artwork?
<j1mc> i don't know art team protocol
<j1mc> btw, the links suck on that page.  i'm just doing cleanup.
<j1mc> i guess i can move "Get Involved" under the "Guidelines" heading - put it at the bottom.
<_MMA_> j1mc: No. Not really. All it takes to be involved with the Xubuntu art is to actually produce and put together a cohesive theme.
<_MMA_> And that wiki page looks good.
<j1mc> ok... cool... it's coming along.
<j1mc> thanks for your help.
<j1mc> have a good weekend.
<_MMA_> Though, from my experience, you can get alot of info on how to help, but none really stick it out and do what needs to be done. Are you just doing wiki work or art s well?
<_MMA_> j1mc: Ok. Hit me up later. Sunday Ill be around. Monday and during the week will be best.
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-03-30
 * DanaG want-eth an Aurora-based theme packaged.
<AnAnt> Hello, I need help with creating an icon theme
<AnAnt> sorry, a cursor (pointer) theme
<AnAnt> can it inherit from another cursor theme ?
<BHSPitLappy> good question!
<AnAnt> BHSPitLappy: but you don't have an answer ?
<BHSPitLappy> Nope!
<Sonne> hi!
<Sonne> is this the right place to ask about usplash?
<BHSPitLappy> Are there any new/changed icons in Hardy (from Gutsy)?
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-03-23
<Stralytic> njpatel, hey, if you have a sec could you read through something and tell me what you think? http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/NetbookLauncherIdeas
<njpatel> Stralytic: hey, looks good. We've got some bugs (wishlist) against unr launcher for similar ideas
<Stralytic> njpatel, groovy, i'll be producing mockups soon, and a prototype by may
<njpatel> cool :)
<thorwil> http://saffron-consultants.com/featured-work/apollo/
<kwwii> thorwil: nice
<thorwil> really makes me want to create a nicely laid guidelines just for fun :)
<thorwil> what coincidence that i'm at home, sick with a sinuses and eardrum inflammation
<kwwii> hehe
<andreasn> thorwil, funky
<_MMA_> http://www.flickr.com/photos/techthis/3368683205 inspired by http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/kindle2/Periodic_Table_of_Typefaces_large.jpg
<kwwii> nice
<kwwii> hrm, burning a dvd doesn't seem to work on my system anymore
<kwwii> funky
<kwwii> it fscked my drive
<kwwii> made some scary sounds (with a blank dvd in it) and now it doesn't close anymore
<kwwii> great
<_MMA_> Ouch. HW maybe?
<kwwii> I am afraid to put a normal DVD in it to test it
<kwwii> I think it is seriously broken
<kwwii> when I put a blank dvd in, and kinda help it close with my hand it starts making really funky sounds
<kwwii> like things are aligned properly anymore
<kwwii> oh well
<kwwii> linux
<kwwii> gotta love it
<kwwii> been a while since ir b0rked my hardware though
<kwwii> s/ir/it
<kwwii> like 7 years or so
<kwwii> erm, like things are *not* aligned...
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-03-24
<Vantrax> anyone know if submissions are still active for artwork?
<o0Chris0o> Vantrax:I think they are working on the wallpaper and some icons
<o0Chris0o> but other than that I'm not entirely sure
<Vantrax> Yeah i have a wallpaper to add into the mix, just need to finish it up tonight
<o0Chris0o> cool
<BHSPitMonkey> the artwork freeze already happened, didn't it
<o0Chris0o> I'm not sure
<BHSPitMonkey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JauntyReleaseSchedule -- Indeed
<thorwil> good morning!
 * thorwil wonders if he should try http://www.explosm.net/comics/1601/ now and then
 * _MMA_ waves
<kwwii> were is Cimi when you need him
<ziroday> somewhere other then where you need him?
<kwwii> no doubt
<kwwii> bug #345410 seems like his problem :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 345410 in gtk2-engines-murrine "Human Theme needs some changes for murrine 0.9x" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/345410
<kwwii> I added the change he suggests and it doesn't do anything, it seems
 * _MMA_ is also following that bug.
<ziroday> kwwii: oh I noticed that too, thought it was a new design decision
 * _MMA_ did as well.
<zniavre> it is not a feature ?
<_MMA_> Cimi /did/ push out a .91 release. Maybe it's fixed.
<ziroday> mind you the clearlooks one does look alot better then the murrine one
<zniavre> that's true
<_MMA_> If kwwii or someone doesn't like the look if it's part of murrine one can always have it use Clearlooks there.
<kwwii> it was cimi's design
<kwwii> but I don't want it :p
<_MMA_> Just like getting rid of the stripe on the tabs! I loved that. Now I use Clearlooks for that part. If this isn't a bug, maybe I'll use Clearlooks for the button highlight as well.
<kwwii> it kinda ticks me off, I asked cimi what he changed and he said it wouldn't look any different
<_MMA_> So *maybe* this is just a bug.
<_MMA_> Because really, this looks like a step back.
<kwwii> yeah well, wait and see what he says
<_MMA_> hahaha
<_MMA_> kwwii: You know what he'll say. (if this is a design choice)
<lucazade> Cimi asked for a focus mockup for ages, nobody provided a good one.. this one is imho a good one
<dashua> lucazade: http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/11469/screenshot_023_35CHzk.png
<lucazade> same stuff for me, is it a real change?
<dashua> He patched focus, I've been testing it with no issues.
<dashua> I don't think he committed it yet or if it was ready.
<lucazade> ok tnx for info
<dashua> http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/11470/screenshot_024_nlc2kR.png
<dashua> See the focus ring is like clearlooks
<dashua> This is where the mix hacks will mess up scale as the focus with be extremely light
<lucazade> yep.. is not a great change .. i've never thought it was a bug the present focus
<dashua> Better using the shade option, like Cimi suggested.
<dashua> The dotted line was gone, the version reported in this bug, and now this one in testing.
<lucazade> arg me don't like this one.. btw not a problem neither a bug
<lucazade> just tastes
<_MMA_> I don't see how *anyone* would think that that line we have now looks better than: http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/11469/screenshot_023_35CHzk.png
<_MMA_> The line looks totally awkward.
<lucazade> mma for you
<lucazade> not for *me*
<_MMA_> The pic above communicates focus *much* better.
<lucazade> *much*
<lucazade> i don't think so
<lucazade> and also stripes on tabs were wrong btw
<_MMA_> Why?
<_MMA_> Give me a technical reason.
<lucazade> because worked ok only with blue
<lucazade> ok?
<_MMA_> An educated design opinion.
<lucazade> :)
 * _MMA_ waits.
<_MMA_> In the end, what urks me, is that coders that *think* they have a eye for art don't listen to real designers. It's an issue across free software.
<kwwii> re
 * thorwil spots a sign of troy
<lucazade> i told you stripes are too depending on selected bg color
<lucazade> if you make a theme with clearlooks palette is ok, otherwise is a pain
<_MMA_> thorwil: Somewhat guilty. Though, it's something I already knew.
<kwwii> we used the line on the tabs with orange and people loved it
<kwwii> the current keyboard selection looks funky though
<kwwii> just a line at the bottom effects the design very strongly
<_MMA_> lucazade: You never said to me "too depending on selected bg color". It really doesn't matter anyway.
<lucazade> i told you, *maybe* my english is pour
<lucazade> cimi told you as well some months ago
<_MMA_> Looking back through logs, I don't see him mentioning it to me.
<_MMA_> In the end, this change looks terrible because it's obscure and looks out of place.
<kwwii> I specificaly asked if this would change the look of the theme and cimi said no
<kwwii> the problems occur when his opinion of a change is not my opinion of a change
<kwwii> :p
<lucazade> :D lol
<_MMA_> And, I could get 100 other people to say the same thing and Cimi wouldn't change. *Everyone* could tell him it looks bad and he wouldn't. Thats the problem around here.
<lucazade> today is Cimi dbay, maybe he will listen to all of us
<_MMA_> Cimi has the attitude "It's my show and I'll do what I want".
<lucazade> i thought the same for a period, after known him i changed my opinion
<_MMA_> I've worked with him long enough as well. I haven't seen what you have.
<_MMA_> And mind you, I've told him as much.
<_MMA_> I wish he were here now.
<lucazade> i wish too, i don't want to speak for him
<_MMA_> This says focus: http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/11469/screenshot_023_35CHzk.png when compared to what's there now. When given the choice, I'd bet my house the majority of people would choose the pic above.
<lucazade> i don't care about people thinks is correct
<_MMA_> hahahahhaha
<lucazade> ;)Ã¹
<lucazade> ... makin a coffee..
<_MMA_> There's a difference between sticking to a design direction/choice and just being an ass.
<_MMA_> "*Everyone* tells me I'm wrong but I don't care." is a common attitude around freesoftware "art" (and I use that loosly) and it's going to kill us.
<lucazade> if i follow what people say, i would lose my house if bet
<thorwil> pointless discussion is pointless
<_MMA_> thorwil: Unfortunately.
<lucazade> agree
<_MMA_> ?
<_MMA_> nevermind
<thorwil> funny enough, i just changed the countdown banners again. because i have been told to ;p
<_MMA_> thorwil: But this is also the problem. People that know, just give up. I'm tired of that.
<thorwil> _MMA_: either very few people can be champions of a change, or it wont happen, i think
<lucazade> mma you 'll never reach what people wants, 100%, also listening only to their opinions, because after some days they will change opinions and they will not care about your work
<thorwil> lucazade: you are missing _MMA_ point entirely
<_MMA_> lucazade: There's a difference that you're *totally* missing..
<lucazade> like
<_MMA_> Ha. Beat me to it. :P
<lucazade> tell me which
<_MMA_> lucazade: There's a difference between trying to please everyone and listening to people who have solid design knowledge.
<thorwil> lucazade: there's a huge difference between asking people about everything and trying to let them drive the design and just checking design decisons now and then, asking people if what you want to express is what they see in the design
<thorwil> also that
<thorwil> ask gourmets, not fast-food fans ;)
<lucazade> murrine is a project of a guy, not of a community
<_MMA_> lucazade: *Really*? :) That's the stance you're going to take?
<_MMA_> Really, just stop trying to defend Cimi. ;)
<_MMA_> I'm speaking generally anyway.
<lucazade> i think he asked help lots of time
<_MMA_> Murrine is just 1 example.
<lucazade> but at the end he did the whole alone
<_MMA_> lucazade: And he got examples.
<_MMA_> Really. Just stop. ;)
<lucazade> ok
<_MMA_> Point is, if people who code and people who design don't work together the GNOME desktop will continue to look stuck in the 90's.
<_MMA_> And the "I code it so I don't have to listen to you." attitude keeps people with a clue (design knowledge) away.
<lucazade> i agree with you.. but we cannot says Cimi do whatever he wants
<_MMA_> lucazade: Like I said, this is a general opinion about the thinking of most free software "designers" I've observed over the years.
<_MMA_> *Not* at all specific to Cimi.
<lucazade> ok mma, now it's clear for me
<lucazade> i'd speak my nativa language here
<_MMA_> It's the 3rd time I've said it. Maybe it just took that many times for you to get it. ;)
<lucazade> mma says Cimi has the attitude "It's my show and I'll do what I want".
<kwwii> he does tend to talk like that
<kwwii> I assumed he had really learned how to speak english in chat
<_MMA_> lucazade: Sure. But we moved on from talking specifically about Cimi. :)
<thorwil> kwwii: there is another way? 8-D
<_MMA_> :P
<kwwii> q: "hey what do you think about this idea?" a: "are you totally fucking stupid?"
<lucazade> for me the discussion is closed.. no prb at all
<kwwii> yeah, I really just need to talk to cimi directly
<thorwil> kwwii: a: "it's ugly"
<_MMA_> Ok. He responded to the bug. "Oh LOL! That's the focus hint, it will change in the future, maybe a 0.90.3 release"
<lucazade> kwwii: yep
<_MMA_> thorwil: hahahahhahahaha :)
 * _MMA_ wonders how many more bugs will pop up about this...
<kwwii> oh boy
<_MMA_> Once the release is public, I'm sure people will think it's some graphical glitch/error. I know I did at 1st.
<kwwii> yepp
<kwwii> it simply looks messed up
<kwwii> the QA team poked me about this because so many people have complained
<_MMA_> kwwii: And I think it will be because of things like the Totem slider example. Though, it's still awkward on the buttons.
<kwwii> it is awkward everywhere
<dashua> http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/11474/screenshot_029_38G1x7.png
<dashua> _MMA_: Totem slider with patched murrine, much better IMO
<_MMA_> Yes
<_MMA_> kwwii: To answer your question, use Clearlooks in the gtkrc for the focus items.
 * thorwil hopes for a jaunty with a no memory eating compiz
<lucazade> http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/5132/schermata.png
<kwwii> _MMA_: yeah, that might be the only way around it
<kwwii> suckage
<_MMA_> kwwii: Im gonna do it for Studio.
<dashua> You can patch the engine ;), which will most likely be 0.90.3
<dashua> lucazade: I am fond of the focus hint currently testing.  That is better than the old dotted line, but not nearly as good as the patched version.
<dashua> Matter of opinion, I guess?
<lucazade> absolutely
<kwwii> I kinda liked the idea of actually shipping a released murrine for once
<dashua> Hopefully, he'll commit it.  I see no regressions so far and have been using it for a few days.
<dashua> Or at least make it configurable, if possible.
<kwwii> yeah, at least that
<ryancr> from a random guy who just reads the artwork irc logs I have to say that the focus with just the single underline its a bit 'odd', it doesn't really grab my attention enough to say that it is the focused element
<lucazade> ryancr, let me joke: or a single is so 'odd' (as said before) that will grab your attention?! on sliders i can agree looks strange, on the buttons and the other widgets is cool
<ryancr> lucazade, maybe, I was just looking at the last link that you posted that showed the focus on the slider
<_MMA_> lucazade: /Sometimes/ "cool" just isn't a good enough reason. I only tend to use it when things come down to personal pref. All things being equal.
<lucazade> you'll always have to find a balance in things
<lucazade> this focus seems balanced to me
<lucazade> nothing more
<lucazade> http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/7012/schermata1i.png
<ryancr> I have to say, I just don't think I am a fan of the single underline focus. But I guess that is just the problem with developing artwork, everyone has a different opinion.
<_MMA_> lucazade: *By itself* I can see how you would be happy with this. But, I'd bet hard cash that users who upgrade will find this change confusing and think of it as a visual glitch. It's that comparison that will be the issue.
<lucazade> from dotted line to this focus is a radical change.. i agree with you if this happens on clearlooks
<_MMA_> In the end, I think it's bad having the same person developing 2 major engines. It, IMO, leads to less diversity between the styles.
<lucazade> developers, developers, developers like Balmer would say
<lucazade> :)
<_MMA_> Oh you should be kicked for that one. :P
<lucazade> ehheheh
<lucazade> yes
<lucazade> autobanned
 * kwwii wanders off to the airport
<_MMA_> Later Ken.
<thorwil> http://doctormo.wordpress.com/2009/03/23/foss-understanding-foss-visual-guide/
<Cimi> kwwii, got any mockup for the focus ring?
<thorwil> bonjour nand: http://www.jonobacon.org/2009/03/24/ubuntu-904-free-culture-showcase-winners/
<_MMA_> Cimi: kwwii went to the airport. Here is one pic though: http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/11469/screenshot_023_35CHzk.png
<Cimi> _MMA_, just like clearlooks
<Cimi> there's already a patch I did to make it look similar
<Cimi> the issue I'm trying to fix is the compaticility with dark colorschemes
<Cimi> clearlooks focus ring sucks with them (and I did it :P )
<Cimi> the second issue is the focus on the selected listview item
<_MMA_> Sure. I've tested on my Studio theme and thought it was fine.
<Cimi> I don't know how to focus it
<Nece228> hi
<Nece228> is there any fix for new wave theme in firefox
<Nece228> toolbar is almost invisible, i mean black on black
<ufuk_k> hello, is there a design guidelines about designing artwork for kubuntu?
<o0Chris0o> I'm sure there is check here http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork
<ufuk_k> I checked it but I couÅnd't find specific to kubuntu or KDE desktop.
<ufuk_k> *couldn't
<_MMA_> ufuk_k: Kubuntu follows upstream KDE for the most part.
<ufuk_k> So all I need to post artwork to KDE-look.org?
<ufuk_k> or the mailing list?
<_MMA_> ufuk_k: Um, up to now, Kubuntu hasn't really been a part of this community. Since, like I said, they just follow upstream. So, it you have work for that crowd, KDE-Look might be best.
<_MMA_> ufuk_k: But, if you're looking to get involved in what Kubuntu does, #kubuntu-devel might be the place to inquire.
<ufuk_k> Ok I understand. Do you mean the part of artwork community or ubuntu community?
<_MMA_> "This" community would mean Ubuntu simply because we're in a #Ubuntu channel and that gives it context. :)
<_MMA_> This channel sees traffic mostly for Ubuntu. With a little work for Studio and Xubuntu.
<kwwii> ufuk_k: you can comunicate any kubuntu changes directly through me
<kwwii> ufuk_k: I kinda try to lead this team, and work on kubuntu as well
<kwwii> kubuntu artwork used to be my job
<kwwii> ufuk_k: feel free to email me directly or keep sending to the ubuntu-art list (even if there aren't a lot of kubuntu people around now, they could be)
<kwwii> s/they/there
<ufuk_k> ok, kwwii, Thank you.
<kwwii> anyone know why that Cimi guy b0rked my theme? :D
<kwwii> ufuk_k: look forward to talking more to you
<Cimi> lol
<_MMA_> kwwii: Because he thought the old one was "ugly".
<kwwii> :p
<kwwii> oh well, time for sleep
<_MMA_> Night man.
<Cimi> you are ugly!
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-03-25
<kwwii> Cimi: do you think that the next murrine will be ready by tomorrow sometime?
<Cimi> it just need some artistic direction for the focus in the focused listview cells
<_MMA_> Make them look like Clearlooks for now.
<Cimi> mmm
<Cimi> not the listview
<kwwii> Cimi: erm, I was talking about the keyboard selection highlight
<kwwii> if not, we are going to patch it out of murrine
<kwwii> which is nasty
<kwwii> or maybe we should just revert to the old version
<kwwii> oh well, not my problem anymore then :)
<Cimi> kwwii, which keyboard selection highlight?
<Cimi> you mean the focus?
<kwwii> Cimi: the bug I mentioned yesterday
<Cimi> that is not a bug
<Cimi> this is the focus ring
<Cimi> and Human theme is so ugly that I think there are more important things to fix rather than the focus ring
<Cimi> metacity for example
<kwwii> Cimi: I appreciate what that, but it is something which I have been told to change
<kwwii> so either we fix it or ship an older version
<Cimi> anyway tomorrow is my birthday, but if I will have time I will release 0.90.3 with the new focus ring
<kwwii> at least make that design decision be confiurable
<kwwii> that would be excellent
<kwwii> happy birthday, in advance!
<Cimi> kwwii, I agree the new focus ring is not perfect
<kwwii> hate to ask, but how will you be?
<Cimi> thank you
<Cimi> 23
<kwwii> Cimi: i like the look of it on the buttons, but not anywhere else, really
<kwwii> it might look better if the bottom line was blurred somewhat
<kwwii> or less opaque
<Cimi> kwwii, there was a reason behind one single line
<Cimi> it works great with dark themes
<Cimi> but at the same time it is not ok for others
<kwwii> Cimi: I can imagine that
<Cimi> before 0.90.3
<kwwii> I have about 20+ people mentioning this to me every day
<Cimi> I need a mockup for the listview
<Cimi> I don't want to release 0.90.3 and then 0.90.4 with the fixes to the listview
<Cimi> so if someone has an idea, yeah come here please
<Cimi> lucazade, you too ;)
<kwwii> Cimi: what was the issue with the list view?
<Cimi> the focus is not ok
<Cimi> I want something nice
<kwwii> I can look into it as well
<Cimi> button will have a rounded rectangle, inside
<Cimi> they won't be as clearlooks
<Cimi> because clearlooks has problems with dark themes
 * _MMA_ just hasn't seen that.
<Cimi> _MMA_, wil
<_MMA_> (at lease with Studio tests)
<Cimi> will
<Cimi> oh you mean the focus?
<_MMA_> Yeah
<Cimi> with dark themes clearlooks has many problems
<kwwii> conf call, brb
<Cimi> works bad with many colorschemes
 * _MMA_ goes back to testing Beta disks. bbl
<danielgc> my first Ubuntu Artwork  http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_kOCO452KG2w/SchXj4SsO2I/AAAAAAAAAUg/sSsHYYbqrqo/s1600-h/ubuntuBackground.jpg
<_MMA_> danielgc: Fun. Want a critique?
<danielgc> _MMA_ yeap :)
<_MMA_> danielgc: I assume you're going for a matrix thing here right?
<_MMA_> danielgc: I believe there are tools to help generate a denser text field.
<_MMA_> With a better randomization of characters.
<_MMA_> danielgc: If you can change up the "code" field. I would set that to a gradient comprised of the Ubuntu colors.
<_MMA_> Next, It's brand-heavy.
<danielgc> sure i'm gonna work in that, thanks dude
<_MMA_> I would drop the strait-on text/logo from the lower left and render the text along with the 3D one.
<kwwii> and it breaks the brand guidelines by changing the logo
<_MMA_> Keelong them a solid color and much smaller. Off to the side again.
<_MMA_> *Keeping
<danielgc> i will thanks again, if you want this gimp and blender's files you can download it from here http://danielgpl.blogspot.com/
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-03-26
<BHSPitMonkey> Anyone know where in the filesystem I can find ubuntu logos? (SVG)
<BHSPitMonkey> I want one resembling the usplash
<Cimi> kwwii, _MMA_ http://svn.gnome.org/viewvc/murrine?view=revision&revision=170
<Cimi> kwwii: _MMA_ ping
<kwwii> Cimi: pong
<Cimi> kwwii: please try svn
<kwwii> Cimi: ok, will do
<kwwii> after breakfast and a smoke :p
<Cimi> I will be here for 45mins
<Cimi> i'm at the university
<kwwii> where/when will you be online again? I have a meeting in 15 min
<kwwii> my days in london are spent in meetings :(
<Cimi> maybe, *maybe*, about 18 CEST
<kwwii> I'll try svn and then put it in jaunty if it seems ok
<kwwii> what did you change?
<Cimi> and I will be online till 19:30
<Cimi> no, do not put in on jaunty
<Cimi> I will make a release
<kwwii> well, I fly home tonight at 17 and get home around midnight
<Cimi> I've changed the focus to be a rectangle
<kwwii> killer :)
<Cimi> the buttons have the rectangle inside
<kwwii> I'll build it then and put it in my ppa so others can test it as well
<Cimi> because I would like to keep the focus similar between every widget
<kwwii> I liked the effect on the buttons
<kwwii> cool, I will look into it asap...thanks!
<Cimi> I don-t want few lines on a button, a rectangle on a label, a tux on a treeview :)
<Cimi> the more it is shared between every widget the more it will be recognizeable as a common focus
<thorwil> +1
<Cimi> that's why the focuson the buttons could be less nice (but is a matter of tastes)
<Cimi> the big issue is the focus on the treeview items (the selected/colored ones)
<Cimi> if you have a mockup, andrea.cimitan@gmail.com
<thorwil> Cimi: what exactly is the probelm there? do you have screenshots where one could see it / one could work with?
<Cimi> thorwil: it sucks
<Cimi> that's the problem
<Cimi> :)
<Cimi> you could try it by installing murrine from svn
<Cimi> svn co http://svn.gnome.org/svn/murrine/trunk murrine-trunk
<Cimi> cd murrine-trunk
<Cimi> ./autogen.sh --prefix=/usr
<Cimi> sudo make install
<Cimi> the biggest issue is that that widget is usually colored, with base[SELECTED]
 * thorwil has to install intltool
<Cimi> it's likely you're forced to use text[SELECTED]
<Cimi> but then some themes use black (Human), others almost white (Clearlooks and similar)
<Cimi> of course a dark black line is not so nice...
<thorwil> Cimi: what theme should i use?
<Cimi> you should use a variety of themes, if possible
<Cimi> murrine is not just Human (hopefully :P)
<Cimi> it should be ok with the majority
<Cimi> another solution would be keep using the dots for that particular case
<zniavre> firefox still using dot on notebook
<Cimi> firefox is not Gtk
<zniavre> oops sorry i believed we were in murrine room
<Cimi> that's ok, until kwwii will understand he should autojoin #murrine :)
<thorwil> Cimi: so you draw the selected item in a tree view both with a an active-selected bg and a focus frame, and this combination clashes in some themes? i don't quite see the need to draw the focus frame at all, in that case
<Cimi> thorwil: even if it is selected could be not focused I guess
<thorwil> and  suspect the only other solution is to force theme authors to specify the colors specifically for that case
<thorwil> Cimi: how would trhat ever happen?
<Cimi> thorwil: when I click on a treeview item
<Cimi> it is selected but I can't see the focus
<thorwil> Cimi: doesn't happen here, but i just realized that separate focus happens with multiple slection via ctrl or shift
<Cimi> mmm
<thorwil> Cimi: so, use a different bg color for focused, or rely on theme authors to adjust colors for this case
<Cimi> or I could draw the classic dots
<Cimi> or a mockup is appreciated
<Cimi> thorwil: just asked
<Cimi> 10:02	Cimi	benzea: is the focus on the selected treeview item needed? 10:04		*** uv joined #gnome-art 10:22	benzea	Cimi: yes, if you navigate it with ctrl+arrows 10:23	Cimi	benzea: but the items are selected, someone could just use bg[selected] 10:24	Cimi	what I want to say is that the items are selected only if they are focused 10:24	Cimi	or I'm wrong? 10:27
<kwwii> the dots seem like the best idea to me
<Cimi> I'm off, i will be back in one hour and I will stay for 5 mins
<thorwil> gotta love how everyone has clear picture of the behaviour anf requirements of gtk, regarding theming ;)
<kwwii> thorwil: interested in coming to UDS?
<kwwii> in any case, I have suggested yourself and _MMA_  :)
<kwwii> if you can think of anyone else or any subject to bring up there, please let me know
<thorwil> kwwii: i'm torn on that. depends on the specifics
<thorwil> kwwii: i thought that whole sponsoring thing was done and closed already?
<kwwii> thorwil: nah, the art people always find a way around things
<thorwil> heh
<kwwii> thorwil: the good thing about this UDS is that there will be a real presence from our new team
<kwwii> and I will be putting out quite a but of information on a daily basis
<kwwii> past UDS's have been more or less constructive whereas this one is going to be the bomb ;)
<thorwil> kwwii: i would sure like to get to know the people and _if_ i stay with my current job, making time shouldn't be a problem
<thorwil> kwwii: the question is rather what i would do there, constructively
<kwwii> thorwil: well, we have a list of themeing issues for karmic that we would like to explore, in addition we are working on a re-branding, new websites, etc
<kwwii> so there will be lots to discuss
<thorwil> heh, starts with my birthday
 * thorwil wonders if lyx could be a good option for documentation with quite a number of images
<thorwil> savvas: hi, seen http://www.jonobacon.org/2009/03/24/ubuntu-904-free-culture-showcase-winners/ ?
<savvas> thorwil: no, reading it now :)
<savvas> darn, we've lost :(
<savvas> oh well, invocation sounds nice :P
<Cimi> kwwii: I'm here
<thorwil> savvas: yes, i understand that decision :)
<Cimi> ...
 * kwwii returns from a meeting, only to go into another
<_MMA_> thorwil: You'll have to practice your English. :P
<thorwil> _MMA_: and you will have to endure some of it, then :)
<_MMA_> hahahahhaha
<Cimi> ;-)
<thorwil> if Cimi is here now, kwwii must be in a meeting ;)
<Cimi> I will be here till 19:30 CEST
<Cimi> 2 hours
 * thorwil giggles
<_MMA_> heheheheheh
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-03-27
<Cimi_> kwwii,
<kwwii> Cimi_: hey
<Cimi_> feedback?
<kwwii> Cimi_: my laptop b0rked on me yesterday...won't start now
<kwwii> Cimi_: I'll build it again on this computer in a bit
<kwwii> Cimi_: erm, murrine doesn't build
<kwwii> ooops, I take that back
<kwwii> :p
<kwwii> I spent the morning in open office, no wonder I can no longer think logicaly
<kwwii> Cimi_: perfect
<kwwii> Cimi_: need to make the fill a bit less colorful now I guess :)
<kwwii> the box is kinda clunky now that I see it again
<kwwii> but it will solve all the bugs being reported
<_MMA_> kwwii: Just a Murrine update right? Nothing new to add to gtkrcs?
<kwwii> _MMA_: right, just an update to the engine
<kwwii> _MMA_: build it locally, it's simple
<_MMA_> Not that big a deal for now.
<kwwii> right
<kwwii> Cimi_: did you add something to murrine which styles the panel differently?
<kwwii> I'm seeing some wierd behavior with some applets
<Cimi_> kwwii, explain
<Cimi_> kwwii, in murrine_draw.c, function murrine_draw_focus, there are the double values of the alpha level, twek with them
<Cimi_> anyway don't test murrine with human theme
<Cimi_> the focus should look ok with other themes, now human
<kwwii> Cimi_: it seems like there is a lower 3D-ish edge to some applet bg's even when the panel bg is set to a solid color by the theme
<Cimi_> if you want to change the focus color, just edit the gtkrcoption
<kwwii> Cimi_: this effects Dust Sand and others
<Cimi_> I would like to see a screenshot
<Cimi_> reboot
<kwwii> erm, sorry...family problems, gotta run
<Cimi> ok ;)
<thorwil> about cloud computing: http://www.ende-der-vernunft.org/files/joern/20090324-geekandpokeg.jpg
<kwwii> Cimi: ok, re
<kwwii> Cimi: http://sinecera.de/panel-funkiness.png shows the problem
<kwwii> but now that i look at it, I think this is not just a murrine problem
<kwwii> it also happens with clearlooks
<Cimi> kwwii, what about the focus? things to improve, ideas for the treeview
<kwwii> Cimi: let me play around with some ideas and see what comes out of it
<kwwii> making pizza for the family atm
<Cimi> kwwii, wonna some tricks from your italian friend? :)
<MadsRH> Does anyone know if there's a SVG file available for the new Jaunty wallpaper?
<Cimi> kwwii, and you should fix the wallpaper!
<MadsRH> Or does anyone know where I can download a hi-res version of the PNG?
<smallfoot-> its very difficult to see the difference between the active and inactive windows in the taskbar with ubuntu-human theme
<Cimi> kwwii, please mockups!
<_MMA_> Cimi: He ain't gonna do it now. :) It's like midnight. :)
<kwwii> Cimi: _MMA_ is right, it is too late tonight, and the biggest problem I have had is a decent way to test ideas...do you know how to test the treeview best?
<kwwii> ie, I am not sure exactly what you mean :p
<kwwii> but honestly, tonight I am done...I think I am getting a cold
<_MMA_> kwwii: Apply theme and use treeview in Nautilus?
<_MMA_> (in the sice pane)
<_MMA_> *side
<kwwii> personally, I think that all the highlights should look the same
<kwwii> some should be more saturated or opaque than others
<kwwii> but the general look should be the same
<kwwii> I like the idea of a rounded box with a mainly transparent fill
<kwwii> but I also liked the fill with the line for the buttons
<kwwii> anyway, time for sleep
<kwwii> I will be online tomorrow
<kwwii> and working
<kwwii> get back to you asap
<_MMA_> night
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-03-28
<smallfoot-> its very difficult to see the difference between the active and inactive windows in the taskbar with ubuntu-human theme
<smallfoot-> plz fix this, its usability poor :(
<_MMA_> smallfoot-: Who's usability?
<smallfoot-> mine usability
<smallfoot-> its very difficult see which is the active window
<smallfoot-> so when i want click up something, i always click wrong
<smallfoot-> its very bad for productivity
<_MMA_> Though I generally agree with the issue, "usability" is very much dependent on the audience. ;)
<smallfoot-> well, someone need to change the theme, to increase the contast
<smallfoot-> like make the active window in taskbar be darker
<_MMA_> Well, we'll see. Best to file a bug.
<smallfoot-> idk how
<smallfoot-> launchpad?
<_MMA_> yes
<smallfoot-> how i file against gtk-human?
<_MMA_> smallfoot-: Try back tomorrow. I don't have time to hand-hold. (gotta go)
<smallfoot-> ok
<iBuys1> Hello
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-03-29
<_MMA_> Call me crazy, but if I have multiple layers in GIMP and erase something on 1 layer, shouldn't I see the layer below?
<thorwil> _MMA_: crazy
<_MMA_> ;)
<thorwil> _MMA_: check: there is a layer below, it is visible, it has content in that area
<thorwil> _MMA_: you do not have a selection that interferes with erasing in that area
<_MMA_> Nope.
<thorwil> _MMA_: there is no layer mask that might get in the way. you are working on the layer, not the mask
<thorwil> _MMA_: you are actually using the eraser tool
<thorwil> _MMA_: you are in fact working with gimp
<_MMA_> Yeah. (to all) :)
<thorwil> mouse and keyboard are connected, the pc is plugged in and turned on
<_MMA_> I even turned it off and on again.
<thorwil> _MMA_: you checked all layers in between?
<_MMA_> Just the 4.
<thorwil> _MMA_: can you make that file available?
<_MMA_> thorwil: I could, but for now I just worked around it. I'll dig more later.
<thorwil> recently my dad complained that the stereo in the kitchen turned into mono. i checked the speaker cabling on both ends before i thought of the balance fader ... :)
<kwwii> lol
<_MMA_> hahah. I kinda did that the other day! :P
<thorwil> dinner time!
<Superdweeb> kwwii, new art themes, super dooper.
<Superdweeb> background is awesome.
<Superdweeb> job well done.
<Superdweeb> GDM theme is a little shitty though, it's dark enough to scare people.
<_MMA_> It's all shite! :P
<kwwii> :D
<Superdweeb> I've noticed an error with compiz on see?
<Superdweeb> standard effects.
<Superdweeb> you run firefox see?
<Superdweeb> click on any menu and the menu will , erm , work, but the entry for the menu is blanked out.
<_MMA_> thorwil: I set a box for the kids to watch movies. Turned it on, sound was wrong. ie: was missing a channel. Spent 2hrs going through ALSA stuff before I checked the cables. They had a short. :P
<Superdweeb> guiz
<Superdweeb> I've got this weird request
<Superdweeb> see, I've never made this request, and I've been troubled by this issue since about, erm, 4.10.
<Superdweeb> when you resize a gnome panel so it's only part, it has these thingies on the end
<Superdweeb> with the braille on them
<Superdweeb> and if you make your panel transparent, well those thingies are really ugly
<Superdweeb> because they stay grey.
<Superdweeb> I want to be rid of them ,but I don't know how to delete them.
<Superdweeb> This IS AN IMPORTANT APPEARANCE MODIFICATION
<Superdweeb> you guys worked magic with the rounded window corners
<Superdweeb> And the new color theme is nothing less than perfection
<_MMA_> Superdweeb: No. It;s a preference.I believe you can hack them out of the theme.
<Superdweeb> HOW?
<Superdweeb> those little stubs are as annoying as can be, and I have NEVER found a way to be rid of them
<Superdweeb> the appearance panel needs to have a tab marked hacks , where users can turn on or off window corners, border width, gnome panel stuff like those little thingies, stuff like that.
<_MMA_> Superdweeb: I certainly ain't gonna do it for ya. I got my own stuff to work on. But I'm 90% positive you can get rid of the "handles" in some fashion.
<Superdweeb> Hey, I got lots of ideas that are stupid, but those handles have got to go.
<_MMA_> Time for you to make it happen them. ;)
<_MMA_> *then
<Superdweeb> good one.
<Superdweeb> I don't even know where to look.
<Superdweeb> you people need to make an exporting utility for themes.
<Superdweeb> not a save-as, an exporter to make a tar file with everything included.
<Superdweeb> in fact, sabayon needs similar.
<Superdweeb> people that want to customize tons of copies of ubuntu at once need a way to let the user do the modifications without re-building a release ISO.
<_MMA_> Oh god. Please ask questions before you make assumptions about what we do here.
 * _MMA_ points to topic.
<Superdweeb> yes.
<Superdweeb> artwork.
<Superdweeb> you've got awesome artwork.
<Superdweeb> sorry for trollin.
<_MMA_> *community*
<_MMA_> We do nothing with the technicals in Ubuntu or GNOME.
<Superdweeb> well, you aut to annoy them a bit.
<_MMA_> Well that's 1 way *you* can help. :)
<Superdweeb> behdad estabod slipped a whole shit load of bugs into fedora ten, I'm glad jaunty will be released AFTER the patches were applied *shudders*
<Superdweeb> GtkTheme=New Wave
<Superdweeb> so I need a copy of the tar for the new wave theme
<zniavre> http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php/New+Wave?content=87134
<Superdweeb> thanks!
<Superdweeb> Wait
<Superdweeb> SUPER
<Superdweeb> I didn't think ubuntu stuff got uploaded to places like that
<nysosym> hi there :)
<SiDi> hello
<SiDi> I think it is
<nysosym> hmm ok, but it doesn't match with the rest
<SiDi> I think it goes really well with the Miu community theme
<SiDi> and with human reprise, too
<dashua> SiDi: I agree ;)
<dashua> bzr branch lp:~dashua/murrine-themes/Ubuntu-Testing
<SiDi> heya dashua :)
<dashua> Added a higher contrast version and a few other tweaks if you want to test ;)
<dashua> Hey mate
<SiDi> dashua: is there a way to convince you to make a Human Reprise version with dark panels ? :P my gtk skills are not very high
<SiDi> i'm gonna test this in a while, yeh
<SiDi> right now, trying to get my jabber account working ^^
<dashua> Sure. not hard
<dashua> I'll make a mod for you
<SiDi> Thanks :)
<dashua> Np
<SiDi> hm btw, i still have white toolbar text in firefox with this new human reprise version
<SiDi> beginning to wonder if it doesnt come from me, or from intrepid+firefox+murrineSVN
<SiDi> I like the new scrollbar, but i prefer the previous scrollbar-arrows, they had more details when being hovered :p
<dashua> SiDi: Dark panel version committed.
<dashua> SiDi: Arrows = steppers?
<SiDi> Yeh
<SiDi> i liked the fact that they were going brown when clicked, and the fact that they were fully bordered
<dashua> Try changing stepperstyle = 2 in the gtkrc
<dashua> See if that's what you mean
<SiDi> Okies, sec
<SiDi> Nice
<SiDi> was that
<SiDi> Well thanks :P
<dashua> Np
<SiDi> Thanks for the theme :)
<SiDi> btw, still using Miu's metacity ?
<dashua> SiDi: pull again, forgot something on the dark panels
<dashua> Not really
<dashua> I kind of abandoned it
<SiDi> Is there a way to get tarballs from launchpad's web interface, btw ?
<SiDi> bzr branch is awefully slow :p
<dashua> Try bzr pull
<dashua> It's usually pretty fast
<dashua> Not sure how to do it
<SiDi> Damn i need to go :(
<SiDi> i'm in a public wifi room and they close it at eleven pm T_T
<SiDi> i'll download that theme later, thanks again and have a nice evening dashua ;)
<dashua> You too, c ya
<kwwii> re
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-03-29
<darkmatter> yay or little colored blobs that are virtual unidentifiable *rolls eyes at latest g-i-t revisions*
<darkmatter> for*
<thorwil> http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010/02/24/sports/olympics/pictograms-interactive.html
<rlameiro> hi everyone
<rlameiro> his someone in here interested in helping ubuntustudio with some art design
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-03-30
<islington_> can I get some critique on a logo?
<dashua> kwwii, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/metacity/+bug/535088
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 535088 in metacity "Metacity bug when using background for buttons (dup-of: 532224)" [Low,Triaged]
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 532224 in compiz "[ambiance, radiance] no rounding when window has no maximise icon" [High,Confirmed]
<dashua> When you get up :)
<Icey-Net> 'Ello.
<thorwil> hi Icey-Net. so this your work: http://icey-net.deviantart.com/art/Ubuntu-Concept-Design-FULL-158871634
<Icey-Net> thorwil, yes. :P
<thorwil> the glowing underline effect is interesting
<Icey-Net> thorwil, I like to call it the "indicator".
<thorwil> Icey-Net: i moved your page to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Concepts/UbuntuConcept as that's where it belongs
<Icey-Net> thorwil, Thanks. I couldn't quite understand how to do it.
<knome> hey thorwil :)
<thorwil> hi knome
<Icey-Net> thorwil, I almost gave up on putting it on the wiki like 2 times... It's ridiculously confusing.
<thorwil> Icey-Net: the More Actions menu has a Rename command
<thorwil> Icey-Net: yes, i wish we had something more structured, with wysiwyg editing
<Icey-Net> thorwil, the wysiwyg editor, while a nice additon, isn't quite what I had in mind.
<Icey-Net> thorwil, The whole process of putting something up there is... confusing.
<Icey-Net> Unnecessarily confusing.
<thorwil> Icey-Net: like many mockups, yours has the problem that implementing it would require lots of changes all over the place. so far i never witnessed such a design convincing enough of the right people. you have to expect that nothing of this will ever happen
<Icey-Net> thorwil, Lots of changes all over the place is the main principle of this design.
<Icey-Net> thorwil, In order to advance, one must be adoptive to change.
<thorwil> there's a professional design team at canonical. you have things happen in upstream projects, especially gnome. your dealing with rather small and close-knit circles of people who make things happen
<Icey-Net> thorwil, Come again?
<thorwil> and then it's not at all clear what would and wouldn't be "advance"
<thorwil> nevermind
<knome> ;)
<Icey-Net> I'm not sure if the hands of said professional designers are tied or something, but frankly, there are many, many things that could and should have changed way before...
<Icey-Net> While Lucid Lynx does look a lot better than previous versions, it could and should still be better.
<knome> Icey-Net, whatever the facts are, the design team will pretty much stay with what they have.
<Icey-Net> So, whatever they make is right and everyone else is wrong, I take it?
<knome> Icey-Net, also because the design they've worked on is signed off by sabdfl, and they can't make modifications withtout mark accepting those
<knome> Icey-Net, on large scales yes, you can affect details though and the overall look in slower pace.
<Icey-Net> I'm sorry, who is he?
<thorwil> Icey-Net: sabdfl = Mark Shuttleworth
<knome> Icey-Net, mark shuttleworth.
<Icey-Net> And he is? :P
<Icey-Net> =D
<knome> a millionaire and the ofunder of canonical and ubuntu.
<knome> *founder
<knome> the one who puts all the money in ubuntu.
<knome> thus pretty much having all the power in ubuntu, if he wants to.
<Icey-Net> So, basically, whatever he says is right and whatever anyone else thinks/says is outright wrong?
<knome> umm, pretty much yes. but you can discuss about things.
<thorwil> Icey-Net: so if you want your work to have an impact, you have much better chances if you address single details. or if you look for other projects that do not have a payed design team
<knome> thorwil, payed==paid
<knome> ;)
<knome> or work with a derivative.
<Icey-Net> Why do I sometimes forget how companies actually work? :P
<knome> where you have much more control over things yourself.
<Icey-Net> Work with a what?
<thorwil> Icey-Net: far reaching changes on the desktop level would have to happen on the gnome level, anyway
<knome> Icey-Net, derivative, like kubuntu, xubuntu or edubuntu.
<Icey-Net> Meh...
<thorwil> knome: arg, irregular irregularities falling out of my memory
<knome> thorwil, Icey-Net: the changes for gnome itself must be proposed for the gnome team, not ubuntu
<thorwil> that's what i was about
<Icey-Net> And let me guess, they also have a 'professional' design team?
<knome> thorwil, yup. got it ;)
<knome> i don't know how much gnome employs people, but it's also not a structure where you can jump in and change everything just like that. besides, somebody has to implement those features and it takes time.
<thorwil> Icey-Net: not directly. there are a number of important people working on gnome associated with companies
<Icey-Net> So, the best way to get this done is to get a group of volunteer programmers... Do it, spread it, if it's a great success, tell Canonical "In your face"!
<Icey-Net> Am I right? :P
<knome> uh
<knome> if it's a great success, rather ask ubuntu (canonical) whether they'd like to use it.
<knome> if it's released as closed source or non-free, i don't know how many distros would use it anyway.
<Icey-Net> Ok, I'm just kidding. But if I was dead serious about getting this done, the best thing to do would be to get it to gnome devs?
<Icey-Net> Obviously it would be free. :/
<vish> Icey-Net: yes , get a few devs to implement your ideas :)
<Icey-Net> Good. Where do I get one of those?
<knome> Icey-Net, you could propose the changes to be done. if they are not willing to, create a branch and get some devs do it in the branch, then propose merging :P
<vish> then let it be adopted in the distributions
<Icey-Net> =P
<vish> Icey-Net: we have the gnome dev market ;)
<Icey-Net> vish, will they work for a whopping price of 0.000 USD per hour?
 * knome sings ..whisper words of wisdom: let it be
<knome> Icey-Net, yes, if they like the features you propose.
<vish> Icey-Net: they might  if they are inspired
<Icey-Net> knome, inspired?
<Icey-Net> wrong tab. :o
<knome> Icey-Net, inspired as in the same thing i said :P
<Icey-Net> knome, Ah yes.
<Icey-Net> knome, Well, take a look at it. Do you think anyone will be inspired? :D
<Icey-Net> Honestly, I've no idea.
<knome> Icey-Net, i don't know. those things are matter of taste
<thorwil> i'm not aware of a single successful floss software project started by someone who doesn't code himself
<vish> Icey-Net: you will have better luck in getting new ideas , implemented in gnome-shell
<knome> Icey-Net, i personally like a more traditional approach, but then again, i don't use gnome.
<Icey-Net> knome, the design, graphics are obviously a matter of taste. As far as usability goes, that's what the main point is here.
<vish> thorwil: +1
<knome> Icey-Net, usability is also something people disagree about
<Icey-Net> knome, No. People disagree on what they 'think' is usability.
<Icey-Net> knome, To be quite frank, no single person without extensive research can say for sure what's and what isn't 'usability'.
<Icey-Net> I don't know what's usability, so I'm not going to even pretend that I do.
<vish> Icey-Net: yes , everyone can only /think/ , i dont think there is enough moolah to do extensive user-testing for every feature
<Icey-Net> I do, however, have ideas on what could, in fact, be that.
<knome> Icey-Net, usability can be different things for different people. is the style you propose good for a guy with bad eyesight? maybe not, since there's still quite a lot of little-contrasted stuff.
<Icey-Net> knome, But then again, the buttons a menu items are rather large.
<Icey-Net> and*
<knome> Icey-Net, size isn't everything, if your eyesight really is bad. you just can't see stuff.
<knome> anyway, that was not an argument against the stuff
<Icey-Net> They invented glasses for that.
<knome> it was just proving that there are lots of things to consider and what works for others might not work for you and the other way around
<Icey-Net> I mean obviously not everyone will find it usable and not everyone will like it.
<knome> there are people who can't see with even glasses. and glasses do not fix contrast.
<Icey-Net> knome, There are monitor options that tone down contrast. :P
<knome> Icey-Net, that's why you can't say its usability is great.
<Icey-Net> Yes. I can not.
<knome> and that's why people are free to disagree
<Icey-Net> They are in fact free to do so.
<darkmatter> that's not usability though. it's accessibility. different fish. and with that I depart the conversation
<knome> and that's why i say people can disagree about usability and not only "think" they disagree.
<Icey-Net> darkmatter, We're just babbling non-sense for the lulz. Don't mind us.
<knome> w/e, you can't please everyone.
<Icey-Net> knome, Well, if they don't think they disagree, they really don't disagree. As they're not even thinking of disagreeing.
<knome> start somewhere and get some devs working on it.
<Icey-Net> knome, Of course not.
<Icey-Net> knome, I will do just that. :P
<knome> if they're not willing, code yourself or think of some modifications, or start from a smaller piece.
<Icey-Net> Why wouldn't someone be willing? :O
<knome> in the end smaller changes are easier to understand and start working on.
<knome> Icey-Net, if they don't agree with your proposal or just don't like it enough to start working on it for free?
<knome> == if they lack the inspiration
<Icey-Net> knome, Why would they disagree and just not like it? :O
<knome> Icey-Net, because they are free to disagree. you remember that part? :P
<Icey-Net> knome, No they're not. I don't remember. No. Never! D:
<knome> plus, people are afraid of change.
<Icey-Net> knome, People are always afraid, will always be afraid and have always been always been afaird.
<knome> yes.
<vish> Icey-Net: FYI , gnome-panel is dead/dying , you will not see any more improvements/enhancements , gnome-shell is a probably which can have some new changes..
<Icey-Net> So? Does this mean that no change should ever be made?
<Icey-Net> gnome-shell, in my opinion is... ehm... can I swear here? :P
<knome> Icey-Net, nope. but if you can't code it yourself, ...
<knome> Icey-Net, nobody has to do it for you.
<vish> Icey-Net: everyone is still swearing , but all the experienced gnome devs are working on it ;)
<Icey-Net> knome, What?! Everyone has to do it for me! :O This is Iceman! SPARTAAA!!! :O
<darkmatter> vish: they're still improving/maintaining gnome-panel for the time being, since several distros are unlikely to switch over to that god awful shell even at gunpoint :P
<vish> darkmatter: i meant in terms of enhancements :) bug fixes will go on
<Icey-Net> darkmatter, I wont ever use gnome-shell. It has become a matter of principle.
<vish> Icey-Net: tell me that in 2yrs ;p
<knome> Icey-Net, feel free to come and discuss with me constructively once you've acknowledged you're not the king of the world.
<Icey-Net> vish, In 2 years I'll see how Microsoft has pulled off another eye-candy OS that everyone will drool over.
<Icey-Net> vish, Which I would be willing to pay another 200 bucks for.
<Icey-Net> Forgetting all about the problems of gnome and whatnot.
<darkmatter> vish: there are enhancements. two days ago iirc they fixed the notification applet to force ordering (kinda like fedora does but slightly different code)
<Icey-Net> knome, I'm the king of the world!! D:
<vish> darkmatter: that bug patch was in waiting for nearly 9-12 months ;)
<Icey-Net> knome, P.S. I am, for the most part, just talking non-sense. =D
<darkmatter> vish: what bug doesn't? :P
<darkmatter> brb
<darkmatter> vish: there are still some fairly obvious bugs floating around from ten years ago. it's awesome ;)
<vish> darkmatter: yeah some are really frustrating too , well  c'est la gnome vie :/
<darkmatter> hehe
<darkmatter> vish: on a plus note, I finally got metacity to cooperate and give me 3 pixel rounded corners!
<Icey-Net> darkmatter, Oh boy!
<darkmatter> now on to more fun drawing ops
<Icey-Net> darkmatter, 3 pixels! 3!
<Icey-Net> darkmatter, An entire 3! O_o
<Icey-Net> darkmatter, Is my sarcasm too mean? =(
<darkmatter> Icey-Net: yes, instead of a highly pixelated 5
<Icey-Net> darkmatter, Great success!
<darkmatter> now I need to work on lighting and shadows. title rendering and designing some purtay multi-layered buttons
<Icey-Net> darkmatter, Err...
<Icey-Net> darkmatter, Yeah, yeah. Definitely.
<Icey-Net> It is almost as if my neck is trying to murder me...
<Icey-Net> it hurts... a lot.
<darkmatter> Icey-Net: my back has been stabbing me in the back since wednesday. fun times
<Icey-Net> Oh, gotta love that.
<Icey-Net> Wait, have you guys even seen the concept design I made?
<Icey-Net> I know thorwil has seen it.
<darkmatter> Icey-Net: yeah, I saw it on DA earlier
<Icey-Net> darkmatter, Really?
<Icey-Net> darkmatter, You just stumbled upon it or something?
<darkmatter> Icey-Net: yeah. I was browsing DA out of boredom
<Icey-Net> pfft
<Icey-Net> stupid IRC client. -.-
<Icey-Net> darkmatter, Did you say something?
<darkmatter> Icey-Net: yeah. I said I was browsing DA out of boredom when I saw it
<Icey-Net> darkmatter, Are you being sarcastic? =.=
<darkmatter> no. I browse DA out of boredom frequently :P
<Icey-Net> darkmatter, Oh...
<Icey-Net> darkmatter, How do you like the cursors?
<Icey-Net> darkmatter, I'm particulary worried about that. They're the first cursors I've made. Ever.
<darkmatter> Icey-Net: the cursors are awesome. they go nicely with ubuntu's new branding imo
<Icey-Net> darkmatter, New branding now?
<vish> darkmatter: screenshot [of the new borders]?
<darkmatter> vish: sec
<darkmatter> I stole the buttons from elementary as place holders :P
<Icey-Net> darkmatter, Thief! What kind of a person steals stuff from elementary? :l
<Icey-Net> darkmatter, You are aware that I am, in fact, just messin' with ya, yes?
<darkmatter> aye
<Icey-Net> Wewt. O_o
<darkmatter> vish: sorry, I had to find a wally light enough to get a clear look at them. ignore the font and crap. placeholder evils :P http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/9742/screenshotyu.png
<Icey-Net> darkmatter, Hisss! :o You put me on the screenshot! :O
<vish> darkmatter: hmm , still not the best :(   , but why is the border towards the top tapering inward?  it that by design or due to lighter colors towards the top fooling the eyes?
<vish> rather darker colors maybe..
<darkmatter> vish: it's my transparency settings and the fact that I still need to apply the drawing ops to the titlebar. I just started on those. I need to round/fade the corners of the highlight, add a slight gradient, etch the text (and embolden it slightly). move the title to the left, drop the menu button, blah blah
<vish> ;)
<darkmatter> vish: at least they're not pixelated :P
<darkmatter> I needed to start on the metacity before continuing on the gtk. because otherwise it'll look like crap
<darkmatter> vish: I just wish the drawing ops for metacity were simpler. it takes forever to code :/
<vish> darkmatter: is there a metacity viewer , something like twf?
<darkmatter> vish. theres a built in viewer to run from a terminal. there's also the widget laboratory. it's like the widget factory but does both gtk and metacity
<vish> kinda irritating playing with metacity and having to reselect the theme ,just to check how it looks..
<darkmatter> https://launchpad.net/twl
<vish> $metacity-theme-viewer theme ainth that good , it only draws the title bar from the theme mentioned :s
<darkmatter> vish: looks like http://gnome-look.org/content/preview.php?preview=1&id=119773&file1=119773-1.jpg&file2=&file3=&name=The+Widget+Laboratory
<vish> darkmatter: ooh , neat thanks
<darkmatter> np. I still need to replace twf with it ;p
<Icey-Net> Hai! =)
<SilentDream> hi everyone!
<Icey-Net> thorwil, Hai! :P
<thorwil> hi
<Icey-Net> thorwil, I released the cursors from my concept design. ;o
<thorwil> Icey-Net: so they can roam free and live their life in the wilderness?
<Icey-Net> thorwil, Exactly. :B
<thorwil> :B  what's that? two tongues, split tongue or rabbit-teeth?
<Icey-Net> Bucktoofs. =P
<Icey-Net> I'll, hopefully be back later.
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-03-31
<darkmatter> vish: expect to see emo-nerd-rage over some of the licensing in gnome git ;D
<knome> iainfarrell, can we have an x?
<iainfarrell> hey knome
<iainfarrell> yes, I think so
<iainfarrell> Let me check with Marcus
<iainfarrell> can you send me an SVG of what you have so I can pass on and review with Marcus
<iainfarrell> ?
<thorwil> how about an s, v or g?
<knome> iainfarrell, right now we don't have much, and i'm not even home
<knome> iainfarrell, can you just send us the ubuntu logo with the x correctly positioned and i can handle the rest
<knome> iainfarrell, hmm?
<iainfarrell> sorry knome but the day job's getting in the way
<iainfarrell> I will sort this out for you but need to get Marcus to do it
<knome> iainfarrell, no problem. will you be able to send me the stuff today?
<iainfarrell> and he's away from his desk at the mo
<iainfarrell> I hope so, yes
<knome> okay, thanks a lot. keep me informed
<Icey-Net> 'Ello
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-04-01
<knome> iainfarrell, hey. poking you again :P
<zniavre> good morning
<zniavre> 	GtkImage::x-ayatana-indicator-dynamic = 1 what is this option for please?
<iainfarrell> hey knome I've just been in the room and seen it's being worked on! :)
<iainfarrell> I'll send it over as soon as it's readt
<iainfarrell> ready even
<iainfarrell> what address is best for you?
<darkmatter> http://www.geek.com/articles/chips/commodore-computers-make-a-return-this-year-20100319/
<zniavre> Ã©Ã©Ã©Ã© it almost looks as my first comp. "Vic20"
<darkmatter> aye. good old commodore style but more streamlined
<knome> iainfarrell, open@knome.fi
<darkmatter> bleh. must find a way to drop the colored crap on comboboxes in murrine without affecting focus color :/
 * vish starts banging for a "t" and "b" atleast ;p
<knome> iainfarrell, you there?
<iainfarrell> hello knome
<knome> iainfarrell, thanks for the mail. could we have the same logo with the ubuntu "picture mark" as if we would use it as is?
<knome> iainfarrell, (then i would be able to replace it with our logo and see how it looks like)
<knome> iainfarrell, there has been some serious discussion about using comic sans as the typeface with a handdrawn mouse to appeal more childish people. would that be ok as well?
<iainfarrell> hi knome I don't really understand what you mean by "could we have the same logo with the ubuntu "picture mark" as if we would use it as is?"
<iainfarrell> can you explain again?
<knome> iainfarrell, can we have the ubuntu logo svg with x?
<knome> iainfarrell, with the COF
<knome> iainfarrell, in the top right :)
<knome> iainfarrell, and with the x as well :)
<iainfarrell> I can send you copy of our Ubuntu logo but you can't use the circle of friends, in the same way that kubuntu is using their own circular logo
<iainfarrell> but I can send it over for reference
<iainfarrell> so you get your mouse in the right place
<knome> yes, we won't use the COF
<knome> but just so we get the logo aligned the same way
<iainfarrell> yeah
<iainfarrell> I've sent a PDF
<iainfarrell> that's a start
<iainfarrell> I can sent another file if need be
<iainfarrell> but that's our position guide
<iainfarrell> which should be useful
<knome> okay, that's fine
<knome> cheers
<knome> what 'bout the comic sans alternative?
<thorwil> knome: today, that sounds like a really great idea
<thorwil> regarding appealing to children, you could learn something from http://www.squeak.org/Screenshots/ , perhaps
<knome> thorwil, ;)
<zniavre> is it possible to get the first shot of ubuntu-moni icons ? ( ifind the first message icon much nicer than actual one )
<zniavre> moni>mono*
<kwwii> zniavre: not sure what you mean
<kwwii> zniavre: they are in lucid and launchpad
<kwwii> zniavre: but any submissions need to be approved
<zniavre> i do not want to change anything !  :o)
<zniavre> if they changed this icon they must be right
<zniavre> but i still prefer the one of the first days of message-icon
<kwwii> ahhh, so you want the original version?
<kwwii> you can look through the history of commits, you might find it there
<kwwii> not sure when they were changed becuase we have changed them so often
<zniavre> 0.0.6 gives the "original" version thank you
<zniavre> the first one did not look good for you ?
<zniavre> i can see for 0.0.7 you changed the message icons
<kwwii> zniavre: well, the whole team evaluates them
<vish> zniavre>  GtkImage::x-ayatana-indicator-dynamic = 1  what does this do btw?
<vish> oh wrong nick ping , zniavre_ ^
<vish> ah , nvm i think i figured it out..
<kwwii> vish: that turns on the wide icon
<vish> kwwii: yeah , understood it after you mentioned it :) , you should consider adding comments in the gtkrc ;-)
<kwwii> vish: yeah, probably a good idea
<zniavre_> i don't really understand what is wide icons?
<zniavre_> small arrow into messaging-indicator is one of this wide icon?
<vish> zniavre_: the battery icons are 32x22
<zniavre_> ha ok understand what [wiiiiide] is tank you
<zniavre_> thank*
<vish> np..
<vish> kwwii: have you seen this > Bug #549268  .. is this something you want to do by default?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 549268 in light-themes "Light-themes should suggest matching background" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/549268
<knome> thorwil, you around?
<thorwil> knome: perhaps
<knome> hehe
<dashua> vish, Awesome folders :)
<vish> dashua: well its the color UX wanted ;)  but it might really piss off a lot of folks making changes so late ;p
<dashua> I love it
<dashua> Much closer to Breathe
<vish> hehe ;p
<dashua> A little darker
<vish> dashua: has the update landed? or are you pulling from bzr?
<dashua> This is the sexxiest desktop I've had in a while =/
<dashua> bzr
<vish> ah , righto..
<vish> the old yellow was a bit of a misfit with the new theme
<troy_s> vish: Screenshot?
<troy_s> vish: Or PNG?
<troy_s> As of my last update, they still look like tango clunky ass square boxes.
<vish> well still tango.. just a change of the color , seems more redder.. i have to still use it though :D
<troy_s> vish: Link?
<troy_s> vish: Side note, have you seen the default Nexus One's design for various elements?
<troy_s> vish: Gallery is absolutely lovely. Exactly what we should have done say, oh... three years ago.
<dashua> troy_s, http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/50079/screenshot_hUL9L5.png
<troy_s> Oh nice... a return to gloss.
<troy_s> uh.
 * troy_s headsmack.
<troy_s> Just bloody daft.
<troy_s> Anywho... zomgawesome ahead. How do you say it... "Lucid is gunna rock with bling bling rock."
<vish> troy_s: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-art-pkg/humanity/release/annotate/head%3A/Humanity/places/64/folder.svg
<troy_s> vish: Got to love those direct links out of bzr.
<vish> troy_s: not glossier , but just the icons got bloodier .. ;)
<troy_s> Whoever has the 1999 gloss obsession should take themselves out back and give themselves a good old fashioned Old Yeller'ing.
<vish> the more i look at tango icons the more i think we need to stop using the guidelines ;p
<troy_s> vish: And that gloss glare thing across them. Exceptionally lame to the nth degree.
<troy_s> vish: Tango always has stunk.
<troy_s> vish: Period.
<troy_s> vish: Crayola outline outline heavy bold bold outline so that it works for 'everyone' on 'every desktop' 'always'.
<troy_s> vish: Rancid beef.
<vish> troy_s: heh , i was just typing this > the only advantage i can see it that i makes the icons usable in both light/dark backgrounds
<troy_s> vish: And yes, it is a curious palette choice. Or at least seems to me given that context.
<troy_s> vish: Usable
<troy_s> vish: Usability worries are what happens when there is epic design and art failure.
<troy_s> Mark Boulton said it best.
<troy_s> vish: http://www.markboulton.co.uk/journal/comments/aesthetic-usability-effect
<troy_s> vish: Last paragraph.
<troy_s> vish: Besides, like it or not, according to the study, aesthetics trump usability by a wide fat margin.
<vish> ah , nice words of wisdom :)
<troy_s> vish: He clarifies later in comments.
<troy_s> vish: But the two are really of the same creature.
<darkmatter> ya must not have seen tango in a while, it's no more ugly than any other *nix icons. which reminds me. I need to dump gnome for kde now that gnome officially sucks more than supergloss
<thorwil> vish: so there's talk about warning colors on ayatana and the folders become redder??
<vish> thorwil: "wasnt my choice" :)
<troy_s> vish: Well keep up the fight good vish. Hopefully you can make it to the 12th round.
<SandGorgon> hey guys.. submitted a brainstorm to review font hinting patents - http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/24276/. They might be expiring (around the world) in May,2010. What do you think ?
<vish> troy_s:  if you watch ayatana mail , the word accessibility is thrown in too often .. i kinda got sick of hearing it to the point that we probably need a different OS to it to be accessible  :/
<thorwil> it's depressing how meaningless the folder icons are, not matter what the style, anyway
<troy_s> SandGorgon: I believe there are several patents at issue there.
<troy_s> SandGorgon: Last time I looked into it, it was specifically regarding how the virtual machine hinting engine implements the byte code.
<SandGorgon> troy_s, true.. and they have all been reviewed by several people... latest was by ghostscript in their bug http://bugs.ghostscript.com/show_bug.cgi?id=690621
<troy_s> SandGorgon: And uh... No one really cares about brainstorm. It's a pressure valve methinks.
<ubottu> bugs.ghostscript.com bug 690621 in Graphics Library "Review TrueType hinting and patent expiration" [Normal,New]
<SandGorgon> troy_s, ack on that as well .. but this is something that goes beyond code. There needs to be an actual lawyer review
<troy_s> SandGorgon: What really needs to happen is for someone to actually get sued in Free Software so that the EFF gets behind them and slaps Bilski in the face of the prosecution.
<troy_s> SandGorgon: It just needs to get fixed, and Bilski is the solution.
<thorwil> troy_s: i think it's a mistake to see usability and aesthetics as separate matters
<troy_s> SandGorgon: Once Bilski climbs up another level it's done.
<troy_s> thorwil: As I said, one and the same creature. But in the end, Usability is what comes up when there is epic art and design failure.
<troy_s> thorwil: It's all tripe.
<darkmatter> vish: accessibility.. where? (me lols uncontrollably) accessibility is even more of a myth in foss than usability is :D
<troy_s> thorwil: But in the end, pure aesthetics seem to have quite an edge over 'pure usability' (visualize that massive remote control with the huge buttons for numbers)
<troy_s> thorwil: So maybe there is a slight division there?
<troy_s> thorwil: At least I'd like to think that we could give two samples of remote controls each with identical numbers of buttons and looks but different scales.
<troy_s> thorwil: And arguably, the more diminutive one (likely because of contextual similarity) would be given the aesthetic edge? PURE speculation, but I don't think I'd be far off the mark.
<thorwil> troy_s: there's just people using difficult terms without even getting close to understanding them. design, engineering, usability, asthetics all flow into each other
<troy_s> thorwil: Absolutely.
<vish> darkmatter: nah , for every idea someone mentions.. there is another saying "what about the blind/deaf/dumb/colorblind".. well , they need a different setup not necessary that the default needs to be the right way for them too
<troy_s> vish: And in fact you hit on a key point I believe.
 * vish might be a bigot ;p
<thorwil> troy_s: the difference you are looking for comes back to goals and audience ;)
<troy_s> vish: Design for everyone is exactly design for no one.
<troy_s> vish: It serves _everyone_ absolutely poorly.
<vish> +1
<troy_s> vish: I'd bet that if we put our collective free software brains together we could design a near utopian computing experience for a westernized individual with severe visual impairment.
<troy_s> vish: Or one for impaired motor ability or erratic motor ability. From the absolute start (how to turn on the computer?) right down to the final logout.
<troy_s> vish: But of course, it's easier to just say 'Everyone' and give a really half assed half baked attempt at that.
<troy_s> vish: Hell... I dare say that there are likely aesthetic decisions you could make for a given demographic with visual impairment.
<troy_s> vish: It's a fascinating topic really.
<darkmatter> vish: the point is I've yet to see a single os (or any project in general) properly implement _basic_ accessibility on any meaningful level. I've bitched about it for 10 years, it's gotten worse not better
<vish> darkmatter: seriously though, accessibility affects what percentage of users?
<vish> darkmatter: it *is* needed , but we need to do a version which is good enough for them specifically , not try to get it right in the default
<darkmatter> vish: enough. one must remember that accessibility goes beyond the commonly considered colorblind/blind/def/impaired motor function.
<vish> "not try" , basically , since we are failing to get it right ;)
<darkmatter> vish: yes and no
<troy_s> vish: Youtube the Gallery in the Nexus. It's impressive as it is a very clever way to get away from a folder. I think you might dig it.
<troy_s> vish: Sadly, I was going to animate an Ubuntu mock with something very similar - case in point those 'good ideas' are a dime a dozen :)
<darkmatter> the thing is there is a lot of co-dependence that we don't consider by default. by not getting it 'right' we fail. to build a version that's 'good enough' for a particular group would otherwise require rewriting a lot of code, not just changing defaults.
<darkmatter> troy_s: I've been arguing against folders for... how long? :P
 * vish checks the tube
<troy_s> darkmatter: Problem is... I think _everyone_ in free software agrees that the paradigm is stinky.
<troy_s> Aside from maybe the folks peddling outline outline outline outline land.
<darkmatter> lol
<troy_s> darkmatter: The issue is creating a compelling vision without them.
<troy_s> darkmatter: And _that_ is what Gallery does.
<troy_s> darkmatter: Hell... I couldn't count the number of times that people have discussed the idea... KDE _almost_ does it already.
<troy_s> darkmatter: But again, the 'good idea' is somewhat empty in value (hello patents) while the execution seems to be everything.
<troy_s> vish: Did you see it?
<darkmatter> troy_s: I think I mentioned (many many many many many many moons ago) on how we need to drop so-called file management in general. \
<troy_s> darkmatter: And again, many many folks have arrived there.
<troy_s> darkmatter: It's not exactly a 'hey wow genius'. It's about execution. And _that_ is where the compelling and emotional aspect is missing. It is _how_.
<darkmatter> but as a general rule it takes a more activity/gallery/library approach, part generic part task specific
<troy_s> The original Android mock with the photos on a table with thin depth of field is something that should have been embraced ages ago. We could still make an end run with it.
<troy_s> Sadly I can't find it.
<darkmatter> troy_s: I know. the point is even when _sane_ execution is shown/demonstrated, the people responsible for implementing it throw out 'good execution' in exchange for 'we're lazy asses, lets dump the idea and add TABS' :P
<troy_s> It was distinct and very much... an artistic representation of photography inside of the shell.
<vish> troy_s: works pretty well for fotos , probably even vids.. not sure how it would be for documents , but is really interesting way it has been done , as you mention not a new idea , but well implemented
<troy_s> vish: I think it works terrific for all sorts of data - especially if we have representational models - pdf thumbs, ODF thumbs, images, movies, etc...
<troy_s> vish: Then roll that into a Gloobus preview of some creative sort (what that is would remain to be seen but clearly it should be part of the shell)
<troy_s> vish: And I believe that in _that_ we have the beginning of a true desktop innovation that is ... well ... deeply moored in that 'well duh' school of discovery.
<vish> troy_s: if it was for documents it would probably become just a cluster of icons or gibberish previews , not sure if it text documents can convey the image properly , unless the previews are really big or we use gloobus ;)
<troy_s> vish: So you are saying a really craptastic Tango icon is better than a higher density thumbnail that scales as you hover over?
<troy_s> vish: You actually _asked_ a design question there. Pretty sure we could solve it.
<troy_s> vish: It isn't 'not sure if...' but rather 'how do we?'
<vish> troy_s: nope , saying it needs to be done well :)
<troy_s> vish: Agree. The kernel of your question though is a cornerstone of a truly interesting innovation there. How do we?
<troy_s> vish: If everyone on the Ubuntu Art list grabbed hold of that problem and it was framed properly (who, goal, etc.) I bet there would be some _extremely_ interesting results.
<troy_s> vish: I dare say that the maturity level in this regard may have been reached that there might be more than a few people to take it seriously.
<darkmatter> vish. even longhorn had used a similar approach before it was scrapped for being to 'radical' a change for windows. the folders were gone, file icons had gone, etc, and it wasn't just a dreamweaver mockup. I don't know if the old pdc videos are available, but it was similar to the gallery
<vish> win7 does something similar but still has the "folder" covering them , which blows ;p
<troy_s> vish: Because god knows the number of people that actually use computers these days even know what a folder is right?
<troy_s> vish: I wonder how many people really have touched a folder in real life. LOL.
<vish> on that note >  http://www.baekdal.com/notes/work/icon-change-metaphor/
<troy_s> vish: And a distinctly Libre twist - for what culture?
<troy_s> vish: Metaphors are intrinsically cultural. If you make some sort of agreed upon conclusion, I'd bet dollars for doughnuts it's ethnocentric.
<troy_s> vish: And a biting edge on that is that if there is one truly groundbreaking innovation to be had there, it is the idea that _we_ could implement locales based metaphors and such overnight.
<darkmatter> longhorn also did stacks before osx did. kinda like the libraries in 7 but different. it was a neat implementation too, because you could rifle through stacks
<troy_s> vish: Show the big boys how absolutely tragic their egocentric development is.
<darkmatter> it was a nice metaphor that I wish they had kept, because it felt 'real world' as opposed to artificially structured
<troy_s> vish: I bet you would be hard pressed to get anything other than "Well that's not what Apple and Microsoft does."
<troy_s> ;)
<troy_s> Ok. out.
<vish> oooh , the gallery tilts with the viewing direction :)
<vish> kinda pointless but nice touch ;p
<troy_s> vish: Yes. The world will likely change when Nintendo debuts the 3DS.
<troy_s> vish: If Nintendo carries on with tracking, you _might_ get to see something like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_P4gyjf5tQ
<troy_s> vish: I don't think it is a huge leap.
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-04-02
 * darkmatter yawns in boredom while waiting for gnome to finish upgrading
<zniavre> good afternoon
<zniavre> i got huge border around some .png .jpg .svg pictures inside the desktop >http://dl.dropbox.com/u/187396/border.png
<zniavre> is it "normal" behaviour (some are bordered , some others not) ?
<knome> zniavre, i suppose you have borders if the file has to be resized or it has a bg color
<darkmatter> zniavre: yes it's normal. they changed the default border size on thumbnails in an attempt to beautify them. it failed ;)
<zniavre> knome, darkmatter  hello thank to answer
<darkmatter> hello
<zniavre> darkmatter,  it s a bit too much i think
<darkmatter> aye
<darkmatter> thumbnails also lost the drop shadows in the process
<zniavre> im not sure to know what is it   :o)
<vish> heh , it had the border earlier too and that was better , now it is tooooo much  :s
<vish> zniavre: i thought you hated wallpapers ;-)  , but you like aubergine eh?
<vish> anyone using inkscape on Lucid?  seems i lost my scrollbars in inkscape :(
<vish> false alarm , got them back :s
<zniavre> :o)
<troy_s> vish: Can you move and dock the toolbars in SVN?
<troy_s> vish: I can't.
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-04-03
<vish> troy_s: i'm not using the SVN version , able to move & dock the toolbar
<darkmatter> lol.. I just tested the gnome-3 metacity ;p
<darkmatter> http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/9890/screenshotkb.png
 * darkmatter runs in fear from the giant widgets
 * darkmatter accidentally drops the gnome-3 metacity on vish
<zniavre_> darkmatter,  is it possible to get the source of this theme for my use?
<darkmatter> zniavre_: http://github.com/hbons/GNOME-3-Theme
<zniavre_> darkmatter,  thank you
<darkmatter> :)
<zniavre_> that is huge that s true
<darkmatter> zniavre_: I can't complain about the overall design they're going with. it looks better than the current defaults, but huge widgets is a cardinal sin in design (at least by default). a good ui fades into the background, that metacity alone draws all your attention when in use :/
<zniavre_> current default for gnome or ubuntu ?   ^^
<vish> darkmatter: i'v been mentioning that awkward metacity since when he mocked it up , but it seems "Intel not really inside" him ;p
<vish> zniavre_: gnome
<darkmatter> vish: lol
<darkmatter> vish: I hate cardinal design sins made reality
<darkmatter> vish: and gnome-shell is getting worse. the current font's on the panel are planetary in proportion :P
<vish> darkmatter: they are moving to make droid the default font too
<darkmatter> lol
<darkmatter> vish: if I want to use a cellphone I'll power mine up. ;)
<darkmatter> gnome-3 design metaphor "well, cellphones are popular, lets rip off their interface"
<vish> i like the metacity buttons idea , but titlebar is tooooo tall :/
<darkmatter> vish: like I said. I like the theme (generally) but the whole 300km of padding and whitespace coupled with 4 story glyphs" thing is bleh
<vish> darkmatter: well , we aernt doing much to the themes than tweak the engines :s  , new color and what not.. but nothing really "new" is being done like aero or aqua
<darkmatter> vish: aye, I know
<thorwil> that shot really looks like dragging the window by the title bar whenever not mini/maxi/closing it is the important action of all
<thorwil> +most
<darkmatter> thorwil: pretty much
<thorwil> the proper way would be to define requirements by exploring the freedoms we want in theming, to then build an engine that satisfies them (plus changes elsewhere that might be needed)
<thorwil> what's happening now seems akin to monkey-patching
<darkmatter> I'd like to see an engine built to akin to pixbuf but modern and more advanced. something where we could define (subtle) animations and such between states, had actually recoloring support, etc. kill of this "400 engines, each a slight variation of the last" garbage
<darkmatter> put themeing back in the hands of themers/designers
<darkmatter> plus having some kind of standard to adhere to would make themeing easier (could even go as far as a theme builder app)
<darkmatter> dear gods. droid sans 11? they have got to be kidding...
<darkmatter> vish: I just built the gnome3 branch of clearlooks and went blind when I applied the theme :P
<darkmatter> thorwil: HALP! I'm blind! http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/4962/screenshotdxp.png
<thorwil> uhm, well
<thorwil> darkmatter: what's up with the blued-out home folder top left?
<darkmatter> thorwil: *shrug* ask the theme devs, I just grabbed the branch to test
<vish> darkmatter: it uses clearlooks?  interesting
<vish> thorwil: the blue folder , looks like it was "selected" nothing more i guess ;)
<Cimi> what clearlooks vish ?
<vish> Cimi: the new gnome theme , seems they are doing it with clearlooks?
<Cimi> yes
<Cimi> I guess it will be better to write a new engine or switch to murrine
<vish> Cimi: weird they went with that , since you've added a lot of options to murrine , they could do a lot more
<Cimi> vish, I am the maintainer of clearlooks
<Cimi> so I could decide to switch to murrine if I want
<vish> yup , i'm aware ;)
<Cimi> just the other dev (benjamin berg) started working with clearlooks since he has more knowledge of it
<vish> Cimi: the other day you mentioned you were adding new features for jolicloud , will that be available in murrine for all or only for joicloud?
<Cimi> the source code is in git
<vish> neat..
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-03-28
<darkmatter> vish: eat message style and die! http://i.imgur.com/SCrNb.png :D
<hyperair> sb levelclear -level clientcrap,crap,joins,parts,quits,nicks,clientnotice
<vish> zniavre: what is the class/widget_class for combobobox text color?
<vish> i'm able to change the bg color for the box, but just not the text :s
<vish> yay! found it! i ended up using gtkparasite on twf :D
<zniavre> sorry i just came nack from school
<zniavre> back*
 * vish scratches head..
<vish> why do people think i'm trying to remove some feature!
<vish> heh, and i wonder what customization has to do with anything that i wrote ;p
<thorwil> vish: that's all you are about, isn't it? vandalizing the wiki and removing their precisous features!!!
<vish> hehe!
<thorwil> vish: zekopeko's most recent reply on the design problem thread is most excellent, though
<vish> oh? /me checks
<vish> ha! yea, i thought i'd just ignore that reply about customizations..
<vish> is there some site which says "FOSS is about choice" !!!
<Islington> I have always had trouble swallowing zeko's argument, even when I read in the mouth of some gnome person
<coz_> Islington,  is there another mailing list thingy?
<Islington> coz_: this is on the ayatanna list
<coz_> oh?
<coz_> mm
<coz_>  Islington  it is worth subscribing to?
<Islington> honestly? no
<coz_> lol
<Islington> a lot of circlejerking and very few actual descicions afa have seen
<coz_> Islington,  sounds typical mailing list stuff
<Islington> The problem with the argument for me has always been that it degrades the value of customization in FOSS.
<Islington> customization as a feature
<coz_> Islington,  shouldnt you be saying this on #ayatana as well ??
<Islington> nah just responding to vish's comments above
<coz_> oh sorry ,, I will have to read scroll back
<Islington> I was just before you logged in lol
<Islington> *It
<coz_> oops  didnt have xchat opened on the other machine,, cant read scrollback,,,darn
<vish> Islington: right, customization is a feature sure, but not a must have.. , heck! even i want to customize.. :)
<coz_> oo customizatioin is the issue ?
<Islington> not a must have vish? Its one of the most important features that differentiates linux now
<vish> but i really dint know what anything in my reply had to do with customization
<coz_> Islington,  absolutely
<Islington> customizing both windows/mac is incredibly tedious, but I agree its way off topic
<coz_> well "customization"  is sort of artsy :)
<vish> Islington: yea surely, not the way Canonical does stuff. there must be a way for things to plugin
<vish> Canonical does have a tendency to not allow easy ways to plugin and change things though..
<Islington> coz_: lol off topic to the topic on list
<coz_> oh :)
<Islington> vish: that particular problem is endemic to gnome
<Islington> with its rejection of compiz especially
<vish> that was STUPIDITY!
<coz_> gnome is a pain inthe A@@
<coz_> as far as choices / customization goes
<vish> seriously, i can not digest the fact that they blatantly rejected Compiz from even participating in GNOME Shell
<vish> their reasons were total bullcrap!
<vish> if not for compiz, i would bet GNOME would have had less than 25% of users they have now
<coz_> well,, in some respects..compiz poses a threat,, in a minor way,, I was talking about compiz as a DE  long ago... lately ,, I have been reading more people wanting to to actually be realized,, I doubt it will
<Islington> it can be a de, with compiz-menu
<vish> well, Compiz DE is not Unity :D
<vish> s/not/now*
<coz_> this is true
<coz_> Islington,  well compiz + cairo dock is really all you need
<vish> yay! cairo dock!
<coz_> Islington,  and of course  kde and or gnome libraries
<coz_> vish,  :)  I am "forced" to agree :)
<Islington> I never got into cairo dock, awn was good though
<coz_> Islington,  oo dude,, cairo dock is far more configurable
<Islington> oh yeah, I remember
<vish> coz_: DBO threw a fit when he saw me using cairo-dock! haha! ;p
<coz_> Islington,  the config dialog is not very far off from ccsm
<coz_> vish,  are you serious?
<coz_> vish,  why the hell would he be peeved at that?
<coz_> Islington,  and with nearly as many options as compiz
<vish> coz_: well, not for too long.. just that he was like : Cairo-dock is blasphemy or something similar
<coz_> vish,  oh man,, some developers are just  nuts  :)
<vish> coz_: i think he dint expect to see people actually using cairo-dock! ;)
<vish> or any dock other than Docky ;p
<coz_> vish,  strange,, :)
<vish> coz_: well, Docky is quite popular, and does seem to have a large user base
<coz_> vish,  I know ,, I have tried it,, not as nice in my opinion
<coz_> but I have to be predjudiced about it :)
<vish> i actually wonder what Canonical plan is for Touch, they seem to be investing a lot of time+effort in that
<coz_> vish,  that touches on one of my pet peeves.. I would like a detailed listing of exactly what is "canonical's ( shuttleworth's) long term vision for ubuntu in general
<vish> i'm quite certain(which is my best guess of-course) they have someone from design team working on a touch device (or something close to it)  with some device manufacturer
<coz_> vish,  hopefully,, touch is , again, a big thing, especially since the advent of  iPad
<coz_> but  windows 95 had a pen tablet years ago... it never really caught on except in some busnesses/ corporate envionments
<coz_> I would prefer the more accurate,  pen tablet, which is generally drive by wacom
 * vish wonders if i was too rude on Bug 737183 ?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 737183 in humanity-icon-theme "Home folder icon should be a *folder* with the home symbol, not a home symbol" [Wishlist,Opinion] https://launchpad.net/bugs/737183
<coz_> vish,  nah,, sounds right to me
<vish> *phew* , dint expect Mark to just accept it â¦ ;)
<coz_> vish,  really? cool
<vish> coz_: yea, he filed that bug, and i closed it ;)
<coz_> :)
<Ronnie> For a project in our local community im creating a webchat app based on IRC (maybe/hopefully this will result in chat.ubuntu.com sometime). I made some mockups and want some feedback on this. so fire away
<Ronnie> http://img228.imageshack.us/i/plains.png/
<Ronnie> http://img857.imageshack.us/i/contacts.png/
<Ronnie> http://img62.imageshack.us/i/topicm.png/
<Ronnie> http://img843.imageshack.us/i/mouseonheader.png/
<Ronnie> http://img199.imageshack.us/i/textinputselected.png/
<vish> Ronnie: looks good, but i'm confused which channel is focussed there, is it ubuntu-nl or ubuntu-nl-mwanzo?
<vish> if its not the second channel, why is it underlined?
<Ronnie> the first channel is active, the second channel has "new messages"
<vish> ah!
<vish> Ronnie: you could play with just using color/bold/italics and see how that works, to me it is a bit confusing atm
<Ronnie> good idea, ill have a shot
<Ronnie> vish: http://oi56.tinypic.com/25kirmt.jpg
<Ronnie> not yet what i expected
<vish> hmm, maybe with the orange color it might be better
<Ronnie> what if i put the color on the top instead of bottom on the tab?
<vish> might work, but it would still seem like "selected" , what about just using an icon for new messages? (a color chat bubble)
<Ronnie> http://oi56.tinypic.com/21dg710.jpg
<vish> heh, now its just  barely visible :D
<Ronnie> is possible, but could make the tabsbar make "jumpy"
<vish>  you could just use the icon as a partial-overlay,
<vish> but just colored text should work IMO, most clients just do that.. or the blinking bubble
<Ronnie> thats possibe. do you know any method to make difference between "new messages" and "new messages with your name in it"
<Ronnie> colored tekst is also possible, but orange is very ugly on that 'grey', and i dont want to introduce more colors
 * vish nods
<vish> maybe using " @ " for messages with name?
<Ronnie> vish would you like to have the xcf file to play around with?
<vish> sure, but not right now.. :)
<Ronnie> aargg, ubuntuone is down
<Ronnie> vish: what about a line under the channelname, or does that look too much like a link
<vish> not sure, would need to actually see it.. :)
<Ronnie> vish: http://www.2shared.com/file/RgpjlcGI/Visual.html <== gimp file (made with the beta, contains layer groups)
<vish> cool! will play with it.. :)
<Ronnie> http://img834.imageshack.us/i/activetabvariations3.png/
<Ronnie> vish, glow - shadow should be possible too
<vish> Ronnie: ha! exactly what i was thinking right now! :)
<Ronnie> have to go now
<Ronnie> ill be back later
<darkmatter> heya coz_
<coz_> darkmatter,  hey guy :)  watching all variation of numa numa guy :)
<darkmatter> coz_: cool. just collecting some crap and starting a theme extravaganza. tm just slightly hacked template stuff, but whatever
<darkmatter> http://i.imgur.com/SCrNb.png
<coz_> nice
<coz_> darkmatter,  which client is that?
<darkmatter> coz_: not my theme bits atm. just a "reference template" for the general mood
<darkmatter> empathy
<coz_> darkmatter,   ok cool,, never used empathy
<darkmatter> modded 'fluffy' wip from adium for the style
<Ronnie> back
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-03-29
<coz_>   hey guys
<Islington> hello
<coz_> Islington,  hey guy :)
<delac> anyone know how ubuntu changes kde aplications to look like gtk apps. That is, what is the mechanism and where are the config files?
<coz_> delac,  mm no i dont
<coz_> delac,  did you ask in #kde ?
<delac> coz_: have not been there yet. maybe I should try that, althoug this is more of a gnome issue.
<coz_> delac,  mm not sure how open they are there to speak about it but cant hurt to ask where the config files are
<Islington> delac: what are you trying to do?
<coz_> Islington,     <delac> anyone know how ubuntu changes kde aplications to look like gtk apps. That is, what is the mechanism and where are the
<coz_> config files
<Islington> .gtkrc-2.0-kde4
<Islington> in /home/<user>
<coz_> huh!   that makes sense :)
<Islington> delac: ^
<delac> Islington: I'm going to take a look of that. Thank you!
<Islington> delac: what are you trying to configure?
<Islington> there are easier ways than editing the file directly
<delac> Islington: trying to change color of one particular widget in Dolphin. It is being colored by gtk and I cant change it from ksettingsmanager. On the other hand changing it from gnome will result in changing much more than that.
<Islington> well I am assuming you are using the qtcurve theme for the widgets?
<Islington> no not qtcurve
<Islington> GTK+
<Islington> try changing to clearlooks of some such
<coz_> mm on gnome if I i nstall  system-settings I can change the colours  of kde apps to match gtk2,,, I wonder if gnome-appearance-properies installed on kde would essentially do the same ?
<delac> Islington: actually it doesnt seem to matter what theme I select in the kde settings. All kde applications inherit the theme from gnome anyway. (using ubuntu 10.10). Only things like icons, cursor and some of the colors can be changed with kde settings.
<Islington> delac: do you see something like this? http://i.imgur.com/zNNQr.jpg
<delac> yes. I refer to those as kde settings :)
<delac> although if you mean the theme, then no. My windows are completely gnome-themed.
<Islington> but you see the widget option delac
<Islington> worst case scenario delac look up the gtkrc being linked to in .gtkrc-2.0-kde4, go in there are change stuff
<delac> Islington: actually .gtkrc probably wont help me, as I'm not trying to change gtk application to look like kde app, but rather trying to prevent kde app from inheriting a certain setting from gnome
<Islington> delac: but its inheriting its themeing from the gtk+ gtkrc file, not your regular theme file no?
<delac> Islington: indeed it is inheriting it from my regular theme
<Islington> not from the gtk+ gtkrc file?
<delac> there is no gtkrc file at all in my system
<coz_> no gtkrc?  wow  I wonder, then , how they are doing this?
<delac> so am I :)
<coz_> delac,  :)  yeah that was a bit obvious and "duh" on my part
<coz_> hey all
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-03-30
<coz_> hey all
<Ronnie> hey coz
<coz_> Ronnie,  hey guy
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-03-31
<zniavre> !equinox
<ubot2> Factoid 'equinox' not found
<zniavre> good morning
<vish> !info equinox
<vish> !find equinox
<vish> stupid ubot2
<cousteau`nbk> ...wrong channel I think... what's a good channel for discussion about drawing and design softare?
<cousteau`nbk> psrticularly, diagram design
<coz_>  good day all
<zniavre> vish the most complete doc about equinox is in gnome-look.org equinox engine webpage
<vish> zniavre: cool!
<zniavre> wich is quite small ...  :o(   after some tweaking im not sure to like so much maybe im too used with murrine
<zniavre> like equinox*
<vish> zniavre: oh! i use it for a few places, like the buttons/GTKentry/treeview headers
<vish> i guess i like the way it underlines the "selected/active" widget, instead of murrine which draws a line all around it.. :)
<vish> oh and the notebook-tabs :D
<vish> it does lack some of the options we are used to in Murrine, most basic i find missing is the contrast
<zniavre> this contrast can work only with active tabs ? ?
<vish> yea, only the active get the color when selected
<zniavre> i hav to digg it maybe
<zniavre> im sad my gfx card is dead im using old crappy mx440 64mo just switching theme or opening webbrowser is a pain
<coz_>  good day all
<coz_>  hey all
<thorwil> all hey
<Islington> hey
 * darkmatter hits gnome3 with a cluebat
<darkmatter> coz_: unrealated to linux. osx lion looks like the design team has developed adhd, or schizophrenia. not sure which xD
<coz_> oh?
<coz_> darkmatter,  let me googl
<darkmatter> coz_ I'll grab pics of the address book and ical
<coz_> darkmatter oh ok because the screenshots i see now look typical OSx
<darkmatter> coz_: the ones I saw are the latest dev build
<coz_> oh ok
<coz_> darkmatter,  I think apple is lost now that linux has cairo dock,, and compiz,,, they cant keep up
<darkmatter> here's ical: http://d2omthbq56rzfx.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Screen-Shot-2011-03-30-at-9.31.06-PM.png
<coz_> EEEWWWW
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-04-01
<coz_> BROWN?????
<coz_> I like the button layout though
<coz_> I definitly DONT like that damn stitcking look
<coz_> stitching
<coz_> hopefully that is not their default theme ,, right?
<darkmatter> it  is (for ical). they're going technicolor. unified gui? wazzat? ;p
<coz_> oh man they are really hard up for attention then :)
<darkmatter> coz_: addresses.app: http://www.thegraphicmac.com/wp-content/uploads/mac_lion-screenshot.jpg
<coz_> darkmatter,  definilty a bad decision
<darkmatter> it's like being total random, only moreso ;)
<coz_> darkmatter,  mm some developers making graphics decisions maybe???
<darkmatter> coz_: I wonder if safari will be getting african tribal graphics? xD
<coz_> lol
<coz_> darkmatter,  well it sounds right lol
<coz_> darkmatter,  mybe zebra stripes,, or  giragge spots ?
<coz_> giraffe
<coz_> mm
<coz_> giraffe
<darkmatter> coz_: I just think they're trying to kill steve. he'll get out of hospital, take one look at lion, and have a big ol' brain haemorrhage.
<darkmatter> carefully orgestrated coup d'etat
<coz_> :)
<coz_> darkmatter,  oh he wont like the brown I am almost positive about that,, or he already had stoke and though it was pretty :)
<darkmatter> haha
<coz_> darkmatter,  I once  suggested an african theme for ubuntu,,, it was shot down immediately :)
<darkmatter> lion has some nice features, but that gui work..... makes my eyes bleed
<coz_> :)
<darkmatter> coz_: best lion bit (and something I've been suggesting for *nix for the past decade), apps have timelines. which is nice (auto revisioning, remembers last state, lets you move back/forth through revisions)
<coz_> darkmatter,  ooo,.. I could definitly use that
<darkmatter> you never have to worry about loosing work/place. autosave and the like
<darkmatter> not just at the session level
<darkmatter> things like that are more important than eye-candy (and this comming from a designewr. lol. but design is more than patterns and graphics)
<darkmatter> eeww... fingers failed
<darkmatter> need neural implant so I can avoid typing :P
<coz_> :)
<coz_> I hope ivanka didnt quit because of us !
<darkmatter> lol
<darkmatter> coz_: and gnome3... eesh. I mean, overall it's ok, but the rush to simplify caused workflow/usability/accessibility fracturing I don't think they'll ever fully comprehend. I mean, even the missus (who loves shiny and doesn't really care about gui) works slower in it. plus the overlay is.. well... kinda cluttered
<coz_> darkmatter,  ooo  I am a stickler for accessibility features being at the top of the list
<coz_> darkmatter,  if accessibility features are broken ,, the project is a failure in my eyes
<darkmatter> coz_: it's an area I feel both unity and shell suffer in. unity handles it (possibly) a bit better
<darkmatter> coz_: and I'm not even talking accessibility from a11y, I'm just talking basic gui structuring
<coz_> darkmatter,  yeah I am a bit concerned about them .. if touchscreen is working thats only part of  it,, but I hate Unity  so much I dont even run once a month now
<darkmatter> I find the shells overlay... evil (as you know, I suffer from accessibility issues related to what is commonly called cognitive dysfunction, or in english "difficulty performing everyday tasks"), so accessibilty is a killer for me, both as a designer and at a personal level
<darkmatter> shell is ok in terms of letting you focus on the focused app, but that's about it. it seems the main goal (just personal opinion mind you) off the new trend is web 2.0 so-shiny-even-magpies-can't-resist-it and not much else
<darkmatter> of*
<coz_> darkmatter,  understood,  and I agree,,  this makes them failures in my eyes,, I truly beleive that if accessibilty features in general and specific to ease of use  is not addressed first ,, it will eventually fail
<darkmatter> both shell and unity fail in that regard, and it's not because they're "different"
<coz_> darkmatter,  right,, they dont have the "perspective: that should go into creating these things,,, I do believe it is as you said,, a way of attracting users to the overall n
<coz_> "neatness"  of it
<darkmatter> coz_: I mean, first offial gnome3 video on the site is about how to drag to maximize (well, has on the snap thing too, but lets focus on maximize). If you need manuals/videos to teach basic functionality you're doing it wrong
<coz_> lol
<darkmatter> coz_: I still say we need 'live' icons instead of this one for launching, one for notifying, one for 'whatever' thing that is 'still' the norm. for example. I was thinking of going old scool "iconify apps to the workspace" (considering at least), now, what makes more sense, having yet-another-icon/<whatever> appear, or having all-in-one? say, email app has a mailbox for an icon, why not add mail into the slot, and maybe a count under
<darkmatter>  it. why do we need a tray hear/indicator there/expose thing (like shells overlay) elsewhere? aside from system specific bits
<coz_> darkmatter,  yeah I think you are going above my head now
<darkmatter> pic a pattern and stick with it. you can have a popup/overlay thumb thingy if there is more than one window, but don't scatter bits across hells creation
<coz_> darkmatter,  and I suppose any of the developers responisible didnt have nice things to say when you brought thing like this up !
<darkmatter> coz_: basically. I want launchers/switches/etc all combined (_basically_ it would take an essay to precisely describe it)
<darkmatter> coz_: depends, is silence a nice reply? :P
<coz_> lol
<coz_> darkmatter,  I have always though ,, rather  erroneously presumed,, that if my suggestions are followed by silence, I must be super right,, because they are speechless,,,in reality,,,, I think they are saying  "Damn I didnt think of that so therefore I will not respond to him"
<darkmatter> see? I want things in plain site where I can see them while maintaining as much simplicity and efficiency as possible. if I have to _think_ of how to access something I'm doing it wrong :P
<darkmatter> sight*
<coz_> darkmatter,  yeah I understand,,
<coz_> nature call,, be back later
<coz_>   good day all
<zniavre> good afternoon
<zniavre> why nobody wants to fix the typo inside the gtk since at least 2 or more year ? > # Wrokaround style for places where the text color is used instead of the fg color.
<zniavre> :o)
<emma> Hey folks.
<emma> do you guys know anything about the 'freedom' of fonts that come with ubuntu?
<thorwil> emma: they have varying licenses, including the SIL Font License and the GPL with font exception
<thorwil> emma: if you click a font file (in plain ubuntu/gnome, at least), the font viewer that comes up shows a description that will usually include a license notice
<emma> thorwil: where are the font files located?
<thorwil> emma: /usr/share/fonts
<thorwil> emma: "Font Manager" or Fontmatrix may help with viewing and managing fonts. both available via Software Center
<thorwil> the first might be more suitable for quick one-off use, the second is surely a good choice if you are _really_ interested in fonts
<emma> thorwil: thanks
<emma> Hm, im not sure what the Ubuntu font license is.
<emma> thorwil: you seem very passionate about fonts.
<emma> Id love to know how people even make fonts, and Id like to know the history of some of the best ones.
<emma> hi ivanka
<emma> thorwil: im looking at the ubuntu font license it seems to be talking about 'font software'. What I have in mind is using a font to create my own logo for my own purposes, is that okay you think?
<emma> heya leoquant
<ivanka> emma: hi
<ivanka> emma: yes, that is perfectly ok
<thorwil> emma: was away. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typeface seems to be a pretty good entry point
<thorwil> regarding best ones, a good list: http://typophile.com/node/14634
<coz_> hey all
<thorwil> emma: when creating logo-types, starting with or tracing an existing font can be a good start, but i would always look for specific optimizations and perhaps a unique detail
<thorwil> note that copyright on fonts is actually all about the files, the data, as the shapes themselves can not be copyrighted, usually (except if very fancy, perhaps)
<emma> thorwil: yeah Im planing to take one of the fonts that comes with Ubuntu and then change it quite a bit for my own purposes but I wanted to be sure it wouldn't be a problem.
<emma> oh hi dashua I didn't know you were here too.
<dashua> emma, Hi, I'm omnipresent. :)
<dashua> Almost as much as vish ;)
<vish> dashua: ;p
<dashua> Sup vish?
<vish> dashua: nothing much, still on maverick.. and trying to build a compiz patch :D
<dashua> Oh nice, man I didn't last long on Maverick
<dashua> Maybe a month =/
<dashua> What are you doing with Compiz?
<vish> dashua: there's this annoying compiz and firefox bug, menus dont show up
<vish> upstream has a patch, just building to test it..
<vish> dashua: looks like you are back to fixing light-themes mode ;)
<dashua> Hrm, oh man. I wouldn't have noticed that.  Chromium here.
<dashua> Hehe yeah, got some time and motivation again
<vish> dashua: do have firefox/thunderbird installed?
<dashua> Yeah, both
<vish> dashua: notice the insensitive menu items text? how do we get it to be black?
<vish> (like the insensitive menu text from other apps)
<dashua> Hrm, let me check
<dashua> Oh, I see. It's grey now?
<vish> yea,
<dashua> Let me try some things.  FF is strange with GTK theming.  May have to specify something in the ff.rc
<vish> ok, it is fg[INSENSITIVE] , but now i need to match it
<dashua> vish, Get that fixed yet.  There is definitely a fix.  I need to mess with it.
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-04-02
<coz_> good day all
<zniavre> that is funny stuff this unity theme some parts are hardcoded some others no
<dashua> vish, ping
<vish> dashua: pong; nope, i couldnt narrow it down
<dashua> Ok, I'm working on some bugs today.  Can you tell me if the me menu text box has grey text on a black background?
<dashua> It seems it does on Natty
<vish> dashua: on mav, its black text
<dashua> K, thx
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-04-03
<coz_>  good day all
<vish> darkmatter: hey! do you know the theme matching for Firefox/Thunderbird menus?
<vish> class/widget_class/widget?
<darkmatter> vish: ummm.. not offhand, but yeah. I have it somewhere around here (I usually don't bother remembering stuff, I just keep notes)
<vish> yea, off the notes is good ;)
<vish> darkmatter: i'm trying to change the color of disabled menu items alone and for some reason i just cant seem to match it right.. :s
<darkmatter> sec. I'll see if I have that bit. pretty sure it's somewhere
<darkmatter> vish: hmmm... found notes for the menu_bar_ but not the actual menus... :/
<vish> darkmatter: what is it for menubar? worth a shot ;)
<darkmatter> vish: widget	"MozillaGtkWidget*Toolbar*" style "whatever-the-heck-the-style-is"
<vish> hmm, /me tries
<darkmatter> so usage would (basically) be:
<darkmatter> style "this damn moz widget" = "moobar"
<darkmatter> { crap crap more crap
<darkmatter> }
<darkmatter> MozillaGtkWidget*Toolbar*" style "this damn moz widget"
<darkmatter> :P
<vish> darkmatter: ha! in FF4 the only toolbar seems to be the AddonBar o.0
 * vish tries all different possibilities
<darkmatter> lol. I shuld upgrade an torture 4 :P
 * vish STABS firefox!!
<vish> gah! part of the widgets dont seem to be under the Moz* namespace even :/  and gtkparasite does not like mozilla :(
<darkmatter> vish: ouch. that sound almost as silly as gnome3 not having system wide usb unmounting :P
<vish> darkmatter: heh, yea! i tried class/widget_class/widget with *Mozilla*/*Moz* and some parts just pickup color from gtkwidget default.. :/
<vish> like the menu gets most of its colors from the widget gtkmenu and some of the color from some other place !
<vish> well, i guess they dint take into account people going crazy with dark themes ;p
<coz_> :)
#ubuntu-artwork 2012-03-29
<_Marcus> I heard you guiys do contests for the backgrounds for the new releases, right?
<_Marcus> Or am I in the wrong channel
<iainfarrell> Hey _Marcus
<iainfarrell> not a contest as such
<iainfarrell> there's a submission and selection process each cycle though
<_Marcus> Where can I find more information about this?
<iainfarrell> hang on a sec
<iainfarrell> This was how we kicked it off this time
<iainfarrell> http://design.canonical.com/2012/01/precisely-how-were-going-to-make-the-wallpapers-in-12-04-the-best-ever/
<iainfarrell> but it's finished now
<iainfarrell> for 12.04
<_Marcus> Aw, okay
<_Marcus> Thank you
<iainfarrell> we'll do it again for 12.10 though
<iainfarrell> nw :)
<_Marcus> Bye
#ubuntu-artwork 2013-03-27
<melodie> hello
<melodie> anyone ?
<melodie> hi hyperair
