#xubuntu-devel 2011-01-03
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<ochosi> hi
<mr_pouit> hey
<cody-somerville> hey
<ochosi> mr_pouit: i just got notice from DanRabbit that some of the xfce-relevant stuff was fixed in elementary bzr and i'm hoping the rest will be fixed before natty
<ochosi> mr_pouit: can we pull stuff from bzr or does it have to be a proper release?
<mr_pouit> we can pull things and put them in elementaryXubuntu if we want
<ochosi> hm, again only elementaryXubuntu?
<mr_pouit> for the 'real' elementary package in ubuntu, a release is probably better
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> i'll ask whether that'll be possible
<ochosi> because i think otherwise it would be double the effort
<mr_pouit> but no hurry, I think there's still lot of time
<mr_pouit> Feb, 24 or March, 24
<mr_pouit> (feature freeze or user interface freeze)
<mr_pouit> (after feature freeze, it's more painful though :p)
<ochosi> i see, i'll forward that :)
#xubuntu-devel 2011-01-04
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<charlie-tca> cody-somerville: Can you approve my message sitting in the xubuntu-users mailing list awaiting approval?
<cody-somerville> sure
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: menu still needs work in Natty? Applications -> Science -> gnumeric  seems wrong. It is also under office... This is the live cd, too.
<mr_pouit> not sure. You can report that upstream though
<charlie-tca> xfce?
<charlie-tca> no, gnome, right
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca: no, against garcon on bugzilla.xfcE.org
<mr_pouit> I don't know why gnumeric is in both, but it shouldn't afaik
<charlie-tca> really? That's where the menu comes from now?
<mr_pouit> yeah
<charlie-tca> I will do that.
<charlie-tca> Thanks 
<micahg> mr_pouit: FTR, if you're bumping a build-dep, that's not a no-change rebuild
<mr_pouit> it is, because soyuz doesn't allow binnmus =]
<mr_pouit> but I've no choice, otherwise on ppc and armel it would pick the old version
<mr_pouit> but the focus of lp isn't really for ubuntu *developers* anyway =(
<micahg> mr_pouit: I'm not saying don't rebuild, I'm just saying, you should use dch -i for those, not dch -R and make sure the version is ubuntuX
<mr_pouit> no, because I want them to be synced
<mr_pouit> this is a temporary thing, until the buildd lag is solved
<micahg> mr_pouit: that's an incorrect version then, needing to sync is a different issue
<mr_pouit> sigh
<mr_pouit> I made no source change, except the one needed to workaround lp missing features
<micahg> mr_pouit: I'll be happy to file the sync requests when Debian's ready for xfce 4.8
<mr_pouit> it's fine to keep buildX, because it's fine to sync the next revision
<micahg> mr_pouit: buildX means nothing in the build changed except the changelog
<mr_pouit> the ones with real source changes have ubuntuX
<mr_pouit> micahg: buildX means it can be autosynced
<micahg> mr_pouit: yes, because there were no package changes
<mr_pouit> and for the buildX I made no packaging changeâ¦
<micahg> bumping a build-dep is a packaging change, I should've mentioned this in -motu so others could agree/disagree
<mr_pouit> no it's not
<mr_pouit> it's a workaround for lp uselessness
<mr_pouit> (it's not a change I want to keep)
<mr_pouit> give me the gb command like in debian and this change will disappear
<mr_pouit> but feel free to raise that on -motu if you want
 * micahg is unfamiliar with gb
<mr_pouit> it's to make a give back, and you can specify a minimum b-dep to wait for (e.g. xfce4-panel-dev >= 4.7.7)
<mr_pouit> lp doesn't allow that, and the only workaround is to change the b-dep in the sourceâ¦
<micahg> it's only set up that way since there are no assumed changes in a buildX
<micahg> oops
<micahg> sorry
<micahg> mr_pouit: there is something in ubuntu-archive-tools to give back
<mr_pouit> is it something like syncpackage, that we're not supposed to use?
<micahg> no, I think we can use this, it just triggers a retry of whatever you ask for, it has many options
<micahg> oh, it's in ubuntu-dev-tools, called ubuntu-build
<mr_pouit> nope, there's no option to do that
<mr_pouit> retry only works if it previously failed to build (which you can do from the LP ui as well)
<micahg> right
<micahg> there's no no source change rebuild en masse option
<micahg> bug 245594
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 245594 in Launchpad itself "Rebuilds of binary packages without source changes" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/245594
<mr_pouit> opened for more than 2 years
<mr_pouit> low priority
<mr_pouit> when I say lp main focus isn't ubuntu developers, nobody believes me ;-)
<micahg> no, I believe you, but I believe we should try to work within the system while pushing for improvements, we can probably bring this up at the next UDS
<micahg> mr_pouit: and as I said, I'm happy to help with the grunt work of getting these packages sync'd later
<mr_pouit> I'm not sure the grunt work will come soon though (it will be uploaded to debian only after squeeze)
<mr_pouit> but hopefully, it was the last abi break for the panel
<micahg> mr_pouit: I'm not going anywhere :)
 * micahg hopes squeeze will be released soon
<mr_pouit> and about lp, the most knownledgable motu is wgrant afaik
<micahg> mr_pouit: he's now paid to hack on it :)
<mr_pouit> ah, nice (or too bad :p)
<cody-somerville> mr_pouit, I believe you ;)
<mr_pouit> considering he added the 3.0 (quilt/native) support by himself ;-)
<mr_pouit> cody-somerville: huhuhu
<emgent> cody-somerville: around ?
<cody-somerville> emgent, yup
<emgent> can i pm you ?
<cody-somerville> emgent, yup
#xubuntu-devel 2011-01-05
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<micahg> good morning charlie-tca
<ochosi> hi
<davmor2> morning charlie-tca 
#xubuntu-devel 2011-01-06
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu community meeting in #ubuntu-meeting today at 19:00 UTC. Everyone is invited to attend.
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu community meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 30 minutes. Everyone is invited to attend.
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit, cody-somerville : meeting time
<charlie-tca> pleia2: ^ ^ 
<mr_pouit> micahg: so yeah, it's probably fine
<mr_pouit> I don't remember why I stopped updating the ppa
<micahg> mr_pouit: ok, I'd be happy to help with that
<charlie-tca> because it was not working so good at the time
<mr_pouit> iirc, the greatest version required is 7.4.2~, by thunar
<mr_pouit> other than that, it's the usual 7.0.50~ for overrides
<ochosi> charlie-tca: is it possible that pages from the ubuntu-wiki were deleted? (i'm currently looking for: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Specifications/Karmic/ThunderbirdVsClaws )
<ochosi> ah, just saw that this page was moved
<ochosi> forget it, sry :)
<charlie-tca> no problem
<charlie-tca> glad I was helpful :-)
<pleia2> fwiw, we replaced firefox with chromium in a school lab over the winter break, so far it's been great
<micahg> I'm not comfortable with it as a distro default since they committed to 6 weeks major updates
<pleia2> yeah, I think this primarily has to be handled from the technical side
<ochosi> micahg: but we won't have those updates in ubuntu anyway, no?
<pleia2> user-side it would be great, but if it's unmaintainable/will break/etc
<micahg> ochosi: no, we will have them
<micahg> chromium started at version 5 when Lucid was released
<ochosi> ah right, so those are updates within a versin?
<ochosi> +o
<micahg> now at version 8
<ochosi> yeah, but in fact there's v9 already
<micahg> With Firefox, it's one major update per cycle hopefully
<micahg> ochosi: v10 already
<ochosi> k
<micahg> 9 is in the dev channel, 10 in daily
<ochosi> ah yeah, true
<ochosi> i'm only using the dev-release
<ochosi> daily got on my nerves
<micahg> since I don't use it often, I am on the daily PPA
<charlie-tca> I thought it was stable now?
<ochosi> micahg: so that means that in your opinion there's no alternative to ff currently?
<micahg> ochosi: I'm slightly biased, but yes
<charlie-tca> Aw, gee, give midori a chance, too :-)
<ochosi> in fact i'm pretty fond of midori
<ochosi> just not sure whether it's ready to be the default
<charlie-tca> micahg: can you reply on the ML with that stuff about chrome versions?
<micahg> charlie-tca: sure
<ochosi> yeah, that would be good
<charlie-tca> ochosi: I would be thrilled to push for it if there was an easy way to migrate the bookmarks.
<charlie-tca> Unfortunately, it is not simple or easy to do
<ochosi> i agree, i tried once and failed...
#xubuntu-devel 2011-01-07
<charlie-tca> Good morning
#xubuntu-devel 2011-01-08
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: both desktop and alternate images install today
#xubuntu-devel 2011-01-09
<charlie-tca> Good morning
#xubuntu-devel 2012-01-03
<Unit193> jono: You really don't want to miss a thing, eh?
<eugynon> j #networking
<eugynon> omg, sorry
<charlie-tca> micahg: three images oversize; we seem to be installing evolution-data-server, might be causing it
<micahg> EDS is used with thunderbird now
<micahg> charlie-tca: ^^
<charlie-tca> oh
<charlie-tca> well, it was a thought, anyway.
<micahg> charlie-tca: oh, seems like something broke :), I'll have to look later (alternate i386 shouldn't be oversized like that)
<micahg> daily i386 isn't really oversized
<charlie-tca> still got everything except alternate-64 oversize
<charlie-tca> huh?
<micahg> real limit is ~703MB
<charlie-tca> anything over 700 is oversize
<charlie-tca> IT won't burn to a cd-r
<micahg> that should be a bug in the program rather than anything else, you should be able to burn a 703MB ISO to a normal CD-R
#xubuntu-devel 2012-01-04
<r0xthenet> tested xubuntu on my netbook :-)
<ochosi> r0xthenet: you mean 12.04?
<r0xthenet> 12.10
<micahg> umm, there is no 12.10 yet
<r0xthenet> opss sorry
<r0xthenet> 11.10
<r0xthenet> :-)
<ochosi> ah ok
<ochosi> any further comments apart from "tested"?
<charlie-tca> Precise ISO images grew bigger again today. 
<charlie-tca> Anybody doing the daily tests and marking them on the ISO tracker?
<charlie-tca> VirtualBox testing the daily-live. If you select "install Xubuntu"  from the cd menu, hit enter on the first screen, language jumps to the top language and the next screen is in that language.
<charlie-tca> Clicking continue with the mouse works as expected, it is just hitting enter that does it wrong.
<pleia2> charlie-tca: since we're using the iso tracker now that everyone else uses, I think there isn't need for us to write our own "how to iso test" article, where is the generic iso testing documentation?
<charlie-tca> pleia2: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/ISO/Procedures
<pleia2> thank you
<pleia2> once we have the new site we'll be making a blog post about how xubuntu is included in the iso tracker now, and give some tips about using it (I'll ask you to review it once I'm done :))
<charlie-tca> Great! I will be around, I think. I got rested and finally recovered from Orlando and Las Vegas
<pleia2> probably won't be for a couple weeks anyway, I'll let you know
<charlie-tca> Okay. 
<charlie-tca> Need bug 911905  confirmed if anyone is trying to do install testing today
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 911905 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "hitting enter on install screen 1 forces language to top selection" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/911905
<micahg> charlie-tca: ubuntu alternate is oversized as well, so I figure I'll let them deal with it
<charlie-tca> Okay, but I think we are bigger then they are now
<charlie-tca> However, cjwatson is aware of it, too
<charlie-tca> GridCube: are you testing images today?
<charlie-tca> Need bug 911905  confirmed if anyone is trying to do install testing today
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 911905 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "hitting enter on install screen 1 forces language to top selection" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/911905
<GridCube> i can if you need too
<GridCube> :)
<GridCube> ok let me reboot and go to xubuntu :D
<charlie-tca> Thanks. It can be done in VirtualBox or hardware
<charlie-tca> GridCube: can be done in VBox or hardware, either 386 or 64 bit desktop precise
<GridCube> ok
<charlie-tca> and you can cancel after the language changes by hitting the shutdown button or hitting the center button, it will go to the desktop and you then hit shutdown
<GridCube> charlie-tca, do you understand qa?
<charlie-tca> I can't read them at all
<charlie-tca> what qa?
<GridCube> the tracker
<charlie-tca> yup
<charlie-tca> Use it daily
<GridCube> does one can see his history of tests?
<charlie-tca> All we can see so far is the defects history
<charlie-tca> The reports are not finished yet
<GridCube> mmkay
<charlie-tca> stgrabber can produce a full report if we need it
<charlie-tca> It is all there, just not ready for us to see yet
<GridCube> charlie-tca, i do not have zsyncked desktop in like 2 months, it will take a while to download, its like all of it
<charlie-tca> heh, sure will be
<charlie-tca> I have three machines I sync here, and one is a bit behind most of the time
<charlie-tca> I just the bug confirmed today, if possible
<GridCube> will try to
#xubuntu-devel 2012-01-05
<nanotube> greetings. a quick suggestion - i think it may be a good idea to make xfce4-xkb-plugin available by default, since it's essential for managing multiple layouts, and the functionality is default on (old) gnome.
<pleia2> ^^ we were brainstorming in -offtopic, I suggested this particular brainstorm would be more useful here :)
<Unit193> And look who just pinged out
<nanotube> i'm sure he reads logs <_< :)
<nanotube> oh and another suggestion while i am here - put in some default shortcuts for common apps. specifically, i recreated c-a-f to start firefox, and c-a-t for terminal.
<Unit193> I'd second the terminal one, but firefox might get in the way with that (I do use the second for terminal, and set it up on all of the computers I use)
<nanotube> Unit193: what do you mean, what would the firefox one conflict with?
<Unit193> nanotube: Did I respond in another channel? If not, I wasn't exactly thinking of conflict, and if so, it isn't hard to remove
<nanotube> Unit193: no i haven't noticed any response from you to this other than here just now. :)
<_Pete_> morning
<_Pete_> would it be hard task to modify parole mediaplayer to have shorter jump on fast/back-forward?
<_Pete_> now it imo jumps way too much
<astraljava> _Pete_: If it's programmed smartly, for sure it wouldn't. However, I have no experience with XFCE4 codebase, so can't tell. Would be interesting to have a look, though.
<_Pete_> best option of coz would be it could be configured somehow
<astraljava> git cloning fails so can't check at the moment.
<_Pete_> is the git repo browsable?
<astraljava> Could be.
<_Pete_> url?
<astraljava> Yes it seems to be.
<astraljava> http://git.xfce.org/apps/parole
<_Pete_> thx
<_Pete_> found the place
<_Pete_> hmm
<astraljava> Yes? Is it seconds? Or a percentage?
<_Pete_> I think that can be chosen, currently using seconds
<_Pete_> just testing ..
<mr_pouit> nanotube: the plugin seems to crash a lot/often loses layouts entered by users
<mr_pouit> (right now, that's why it's not here by default)
<nanotube> mr_pouit: well, i haven't noticed that behavior myself, that said i've only been running xubuntu for like a week... :)
<nanotube> mr_pouit: how about the shortcuts?
#xubuntu-devel 2012-01-06
<micahg> knome: if you want the tech board to consider the Xubuntu LTS proposal at their next meeting (time permitting), then might I suggest you file one?
<raevol> https://bugs.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/204536/comments/61 my workaround for now
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 204536 in pulseaudio (Ubuntu) "sound volume always resets to 100% after reboot" [Low,Fix released]
<raevol> woops meant to be in #xubuntu
<knome> micahg, ah, so when was that meeting?
<micahg> Monday :)
<knome> mmh
<knome> so sending the proposal over weekend is ok?
<knome> i'm quite busy today
<micahg> sure, we can go for the next meeting I guess (Jan 23)
<micahg> you can submit over the weekend and add to the agenda
<knome> okay
<micahg> they'll probably defer until the next meeting, but no big deal
<knome> ah
<knome> okay, then i'll do that on monday
<knome> because i've scheduled whole day for foss
<micahg> sounds good (we have a meeting as well :))
 * micahg really needs to head for bed now
<ochosi> micahg: any news on the tb icon-bug?
<micahg> ochosi: nope, but I'll try to find time to send it upstream next week
<ochosi> (just remembered because knome showed me the list of blocked issues again yesterday)
<ochosi> thanks! and rest well ;)
<micahg> ochosi: keep bugging me :)
<ochosi> micahg: ok, i'll try to keep it up
<mr_pouit> grmbl, it seems that today's alternate ships -generic and -generic-pae...
<mr_pouit> that doesn't help to stay below 700M I suppose
<mr_pouit> (on i386 only, amd64 is ok)
<micahg> oh ,it's not supposed to do that
<charlie-tca> Updating from the notification area icon does not require password authentication; all other methods require a password to update
<micahg> no, update-manager shouldn't either
<charlie-tca> shouldn't but does
<charlie-tca> precise today
<micahg> really?, that's a bug
<charlie-tca> Okay, I will file it
<charlie-tca> Although, TBH, it seems like a bug that updates can be run without a password
<micahg> nope, that was discuss 6.5 months ago and there's a wiki FAQ for it
<charlie-tca> Is the next step running them without the user's knowledge now
<micahg> no, the idea was that people get too used to typing in their password to every prompt that comes up and there's no inherit reason to require passwords for updates since the repositories can't be modified without a password
<charlie-tca> Oh! I guess that makes sense then
<micahg> charlie-tca: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/FAQ#Update_Manager_doesn.27t_prompt_for_security_updates
<charlie-tca> Will verify the update-manager bug in Ubuntu if possible, then file it
<charlie-tca> Thank you very much, micahg. 
<micahg> thanks for testing :)
<charlie-tca> I don't understand why apt-get update requires the password, but maybe that is because of Debian, too
<micahg> charlie-tca: the update-manager equivalent does not, idk if we can use policykit on the cli
<charlie-tca> weird. But at least I know why it is happening now
<charlie-tca> Hopefully, next week I will have better internet. Changing ISP's and going faster :)
<charlie-tca> bug 912913  reported for update-manager requiring password
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 912913 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "Update-manager should not require authentication password in Precise" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/912913
<micahg> charlie-tca: I assume you're an admin user, right?
<charlie-tca> yes
<charlie-tca> but clicking the panel notification does not require the password
<micahg> k, mvo should take a look next week then
<charlie-tca> It needs to be consistent about it
<ReaKOs98qwjok12> hi , where can i find the source of xubuntu?
#xubuntu-devel 2012-01-07
<Unit193> As I'm going to apply for Ubuntu Membership, I'm asking for any tips/testimonials/ideas that you can give: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unit193 (Including "Your wiki is horrible! Try this to fix it")
<knome> heh
<knome> when is your meeting?
<Unit193> Well, working on getting everything set, and then have to decide on IRC or RMB
<Unit193> Gotta figure out what one I want to hear "Come back later" from
<knome> ha
#xubuntu-devel 2012-01-08
<nanotube> what's rmb?
<nanotube> other than the three-letter standard abbreviation for the chinese currency?
<GridCube> rmb or mbr?
<Unit193> Regional Membership Board
<nanotube> <Unit193> [15:09:48] Well, working on getting everything set, and then have to decide on IRC or RMB <- referring to this statement
<nanotube> ah heh ic
<nanotube> would an endorsement from me count for anything? "i met this person on irc 2 weeks ago in #xubuntu, and he's been very helpful and seems like a reasonable fellow overall" ? :)
<Unit193> nanotube: Sure! Anything counts as far as I care (Too bad I haven't helped as much in #supybot :P )
<nanotube> heh all right, let's see if the wiki login cooperates
<GridCube> Alternate images for today do not work
<GridCube> no kernel found errors
<Unit193> Had that too
<knome> meh.
<Unit193> You broke it? (And weird ident)
<knome> Unit193, well, the hosting provider had problems so i'm switching.
<knome> Unit193, the ident happens to be my surname :P
<Unit193> Hehe, woops....
<knome> np :P
<Unit193> Wish I had a host
<knome> pay for one and you'll have one
<Unit193> Don't want one that bad :P  Meeting tomorrow
<knome> yeah
<knome> i need to check if i can attend the meeting, but if i can't, no problem, since there is nothing that needs me exactly
<knome> someone else can chair too :)
<nanotube> Unit193: what's your need for hosting? will an account on a shared host do you?
<knome> be back tomorrow ->
#xubuntu-devel 2012-12-31
<bluesabre> knome, thanks, now I don't have to panic so much about catfish and parole :)
<bluesabre> knome, also looking into getting menulibre to work with menus
<bluesabre> though technically, it wouldn't quite be menu-"libre" any more
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> codebrainz: pong
<codebrainz> ochosi, i just made an "Issue" on github/greybird
<codebrainz> (to avoid forgetting in case you didn't pong :)
<ochosi> ah ok, sounds good
<codebrainz> it's not an "Issue" at all though, more of a query
<ochosi> codebrainz: it seems your editor isn't using a real toolbar widget..? i just checked again with gedit, and the toolbar is shaded just like in gtk2
<ochosi> (everything else would've surprised me, so no, it's not a design decision :))
<codebrainz> the gtk3/top one is mine, it's just a gtktoolbar i think
<codebrainz> it's loaded from a glade file
<codebrainz> maybe there's a property the toolbar needs to have set to do that?
<ochosi> not sure, i can check a bit later though
<codebrainz> whenever, it's no big deal, just makes my new program look funky
<codebrainz> fwiw, Geany is the gtk2/rear program
<ochosi> ah, nice :)
<ochosi> happy new year everyone in advance!
#xubuntu-devel 2013-01-01
<micahg> knome: what do you think of dropping abiword-plugin-mathview from the seeds?  it's 1MB
<micahg> well, with the library it pulls in
<knome> i don't know what that is... :)
<knome> but sounds like something that is ok to drop imo
<knome> huhu, we're that much oversized again :)
<micahg> we're 9MB oversized
<knome> yup
<micahg> I'm going to drop french again from i386, that should get it fitting on a CD again
<knome> mmh
<micahg> well, if I can squeeze more stuff off the image, we can add it back :)
<micahg> at least we'll have one image CD size
<knome> heh, yeah
<knome> we should get some stuff in soon and get them tested
<knome> like the new menulibre, catfish and display dialog
<micahg> mr_pouit has uploaded a few things recently
<knome> mmhmm, i haven't followed things too close lately
<micahg> hrm, removing the plugin won't help much as it's recommended by abiword
<knome> heh
<knome> i'd really want that stuff worked without recommends.
<knome> so we could use --no-install-recommends by default
<knome> that's obviously a design flaw
<knome> "recommends" should never be needed for something to work
<micahg> Recommends
<micahg>     This declares a strong, but not absolute, dependency.
<micahg>     The Recommends field should list packages that would be found together with this one in all but unusual installations.
<knome> aha. that's a bit weird
<micahg> if mathview doesn't fit the bill, we can request it be dropped to suggests
<knome> still, with recommends installed by default, and probably more and more getting there from the other side as well (less relevant stuff constantly included), it's a serious flaw in the system
<knome> because i believe it's so much easier to get a thing into "recommends" than as a strict dependency
<micahg> well, no, if the recommends are being pulled in, they should be stuff that would normally be installed with the software in question, otherwise, the field is being used wrong
<knome> even if in ubuntu, that ultimately means the same thing unless you manually turn off installing recommends
<micahg> if you find spurious recommends, please let me know
<knome> i will
<knome> i've turned off installing recommends myself though
<micahg> I need to review the package list again to make sure we're not pulling in anything weird
<micahg> umm...that's not recommended :P
<knome> "dont' worry, i'm a developer"
<knome> i know it's not recommended
<knome> and i'm not whining about bugs before checking if it works with recommends enabled
<knome> seriously, if everybody just used to install recommends, they should just be in the dependencies then.
<micahg> no
<knome> i thought they were separated to allow choice
<knome> ...ultimately
<micahg> Depends
<micahg>  The Depends field should be used if the depended-on package is required for the depending package to provide a significant amount of functionality.
<knome> yeah, i understand the theoretical difference...
<micahg> yes, recommends can be removed on demand, depends can't
<micahg> but since disk space is so cheap, recommends by default makes sense
<knome> for most systems yes
<knome> you are probably talking about non-SSD disk space :P
<knome> i'm not saying it doesn't make sense with SSD's either
<micahg> even on a 16GB SSD, a normal Ubuntu system would work
<knome> but it makes in my 4GB eeepc
<knome> there used to be some gnome apps in recommends for some packages
<knome> that was weird
<knome> i can't remember for which packages, but something probably ages ago pulled in another application
<micahg> yeah, well, I think we took care of those
<knome> i hope so :)
<knome> reading back on my blog, it must've been late 2008
<knome> too bad i didn't write down what happened, only the solution to disable recommends by default :P
<kurapika> Hello happy new year / Bonjour Bonne annÃ©e
<bluesabre> Happy new year!
<kurapika> My best wish for all of you :) and long live for xfce 
#xubuntu-devel 2013-01-02
<micahg> hrm, did I break the i386 ISO...
<micahg> ah, no, it's CD size again \o/
<pleia2> \o/
#xubuntu-devel 2013-01-03
<drc> #xubuntu
<micahg> awesome, looking into why the ISOs are 1MB bigger
<micahg> stupid new lintian deps...
 * knome was about to go like "pleia2, do we want to..." then "oh, she's running it"
<knome> (re: ubuntu user days)
#xubuntu-devel 2013-01-04
<ochosi> morning
<Noskcaj> ochosi, evening
<ochosi> :)
<bluesabre> morning ochosi
<ochosi> and an early morning to you bluesabre :)
<bluesabre> indeed!
<bluesabre> working on catfish a bit
<ochosi> ah, how's that going so far?
<bluesabre> good
<bluesabre> its no longer using find
<ochosi> at all?
<bluesabre> hard to interrupt that particular command
<bluesabre> and from what I've read that others have done, os.walk is actually faster
<bluesabre> so now the stop button actually work and the program is responsive
<ochosi> is os.walk python-specific?
<bluesabre> even when doing a fulltext search
<bluesabre> yeah
<ochosi> sweet
<bluesabre> I'll try to do an experimental release sometime this weekend for everyone to play with
<ochosi> sounds cool
<bluesabre> I've been rewriting to whole thing from the ground up
<ochosi> whoa, really?
<bluesabre> it should work with either python 2 or 3 too
<bluesabre> and fewer dependencies
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> awesome
<ochosi> btw, thoughts on making the eject buttons in thunar look more like actual buttons?
<ochosi> e.g. something like this: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-01042013-111448am.php
<ochosi> currently the button-border is too harsh etc, but just to illustrate the idea
<bluesabre> maybe
<ochosi> to give it more of a "click me" feeling
<bluesabre> how would it look when that device is selected?
<ochosi> currently like this: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-01042013-111627am.php
<bluesabre> I would agree to that
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> guess it needs more tweaking, but i think it could work
<ochosi> somehow the eject-icon feels like it has too little padding inside the "button"
<ochosi> knome: what do you think about the eject "button" (screenshots see above)
<knome> ochosi, hmmh. the borders could be less contrasty at least
<ochosi> knome: yeah, it's just an illustration, not a final proposal or anything
<knome> i think the current no-button-style works well too
<ochosi> i mean the main problem of the proposal is that there won't be a hover-style
<ochosi> since that's impossible
<ochosi> (in treeviews)
<ochosi> but the current ones just don't look all-too clickable
<ochosi> but maybe you're right and users don't notice that anyway :)
#xubuntu-devel 2013-01-05
<adnan> ola
<Tetra> Hey, could someone help me really quickly please?
<adnan> depends
#xubuntu-devel 2013-01-06
<maddernick> ochosi: knome have you guys decided upon loading indicator?
<ochosi> maddernick: well i think we've settled on a circular indicator, have you uploaded your code somewhere yet? then i could simply push some samples of animations there next week
<maddernick> ochosi: i need to implement the animation itself, i would need height/width
<maddernick> but yeah, I will sudo apt-get install bzr ;)
<ochosi> mkay
<ochosi> maddernick: pls ping me when you've created a branch
<maddernick> ochosi: okay
<ochosi> ty
<maddernick> ochosi: pong, but its just the fading logo now
<ochosi> maddernick: that's fine for now, link?
<maddernick> okay
<maddernick> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~dr-madnick/+junk/trunk/view/head:/xubuntu-logo.script
#xubuntu-devel 2013-12-30
<bluesabre> parole-0.5.91 released ;) http://www.smdavis.us/2013/12/29/parole-media-player-0-5-91-released/
<bluesabre> bed time, be back tomorrow
<elfy> pleia2: pretty sure that pidgin bug will be the testcase only - added testcases to it, but left pidgin for someone else to deal with
<elfy> just in case it is a pidgin bug as well :)
<hyde> hi, I'm having trouble downloading http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/14.04/alpha-1/trusty-desktop-amd64.iso 
<hyde> I seem to be getting corrupted file
<hyde> (md5sum does not match)
<hyde> is this problem at my end, or something known?
<hyde> same thing (wrong checksum) happened with Ubuntu-gnome alpha1, from different browser but same PC
<Noskcaj> libxfce4ui is out of NEW, waiting to be merged at https://code.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/ubuntu/trusty/libxfce4ui/4.11/+merge/200196
<ali1234> what changed that debian decided to merge 4.11 stuff?
<ali1234> i thought they were going to put it in experiemental or something? which would prevent ubuntu from getting it
<Noskcaj> ali1234, It is in experimental, we can get stuff from there
<ali1234> but it's not automatic?
<Noskcaj> Merge's aren't automatic, but i see what you mean
<Noskcaj> It wasn't in a udd branch or the MoM
#xubuntu-devel 2013-12-31
<Unit193> bluesabre: Still no asterisks with the new greeter.
<Noskcaj> FYI: I update the hicolor-icon-theme in debian yesterday, it now supports 512x size icons.
<elfy> Travis: so what's up then - if I can help I will
<Travis> I see some oddball writing in some of the icon text.  I can't make it out
<Travis> Looks Asian, to me.
<Travis> or upside down Arabic.
 * Unit193 doesn't think the Language took.
<Travis> Am trying to make a live USB stick, but can't find out how to do it in the live version of 14.04
 * elfy doesn't either
<Unit193> dd?
<elfy> Travis: I always use unetbootin 
<Travis> oh really now?
<Travis> I have used it once or twice, but Xubuntu is supposed to have a way to do it.
<elfy> I never use the ubuntu thing - that has never ever worked for me
<elfy> xubuntu has the ubuntu one I thought
<Travis> well, if 14.04 has it, due to the language issue, it's hard to find.
<bluesabre> Unit193: yeah, somebody figured out the issue, I'll fix that today
<ochosi> happy new year evryone
<pleia2> happy new year :)
<brainwash> Unit193: help! we got bug 1245585 and bug 1259525
<ubottu> bug 1245585 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Try Xubuntu does not auto login and when you do the wrong language is selected by default" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1245585
<ubottu> bug 1259525 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Lubuntu & Xubuntu & Ubuntu Kylin lightdm session fails to start. user-session is not set" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1259525
<brainwash> the first one is basically a duplicate of the second one, or?
<brainwash> ochosi: happy new year.. and now back to work :P
<brainwash> ochosi: I got used to the new black terminal icon, should we still bother about it? do you think, that a change or small adjustments are needed to make it more "visible" on the black panel in Xubuntu?
<forestpiskie> brainwash: just because you've got used to it - doesn't make any difference to it being a black icon on a black panel and still being hard to see for people other than you ;)
<forestpiskie> quite frankly the idea of a black icon on a black panel not making people think twice is something I'm not going to comment on
<pleia2> I haven't kept up with the backlog so y'all can laugh at me for not keeping up, but what's with the xubuntu desktop background and stuff not being applied?
<pleia2> I assume someone is working on this, any ETA on fixing?
<forestpiskie> pleia2: afaik it's in sponsor queue
<pleia2> forestpiskie: cool, thanks :)
<forestpiskie> or at least that was the last thing I understood about it
 * pleia2 nods
<forestpiskie> well - flying through - have a good new year everyone - see you in 2014
<pleia2> happy new year :)
<ali1234> why does libreoffice appear completely unthemed in xubuntu?
<brainwash> ali1234: maybe the package libreoffice-gtk isn't installed
<ali1234> bingo
<ali1234> i only installed calc
<ali1234> is there some metapackage that will install everything i need?
<brainwash> libreoffice does recommend libreoffice-gnome which depends on libreoffice-gtk
<brainwash> now I'm curious if libreoffice-gtk3 actually works
<Unit193> brainwash: Great!
<Unit193> bluesabre: ^
<Unit193> brainwash: I don't see it being so, 13.10 shouldn't have the sam eproblem.
<bluesabre> Unit193: ?
<Unit193> (I need to use more than one letter to tabcomplete) Was saying that the bug being found is great.
<bluesabre> which bug? (sorry)
<bluesabre> whoa
<bluesabre> debian 7 xfce ships with vlc as the default media player
<Unit193> Greeter password prompt.  I wonder how Debian "ships" with anything. ;)
<bluesabre> debian xfce live cd
<bluesabre> from http://www.debian.org/CD/live/
<Unit193> Ah, yeah.  I never use stable, always using the netinst.
<brainwash> Unit193: live mode 13.10 -> auto login works fine, but after first logout the language is set to bangla, not sure about the session
<brainwash> so this problem did appear in 13.10, but less noticeable
<brainwash> the lightdm.conf.d thingy has been introduced in saucy
<brainwash> and here is my favorite launchpad comment of 2013..
<brainwash> "That's not an indicator-messages issue, xfce needs to start using gtk3..." - seb128
<andrzejr> regarding language settings, I have some problems with IBus+keyboard indicator on 13.10+gtk3 indicators.
<andrzejr> IBus switcher works fine (but it is displayed in the systray). Keyboard selection does not seem to do anything when I switch it via menu and it does not react to <meta>+space when switching input method via shortcuts.
<Noskcaj> What was the final decision for what 4.11 parts we wanted?
<brainwash> Noskcaj: only xfdesktop and the components which are required for the gtk3 indicators to work, right?
<brainwash> to minimize the risk
<Noskcaj> Think so, plus setting 4.11.1
<Noskcaj> since we already have 4.11
<Noskcaj> And can more people add testimonials at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Noskcaj#Testimonials ? I've started to apply by email, so i should get MOTU soon if i'm deemed good enough
<brainwash> and we would need to backport some xfwm4 patches to enable the smooth background transition on session login
<brainwash> I'm just a random user, so not sure if I can help you with this
<brainwash> Noskcaj: is backporting of some xfwm4 4.11.x patches ok?
<Noskcaj> brainwash, I'd support the idea, i'm not involved with upstream enough to make the final decision
<brainwash> what about other xfce4 components like xfce4-terminal? 0.6.3 has been release recently
<brainwash> will they make it into trusty?
<Unit193> Debian already has the terminal, just would need to be sync'd.
<Unit193> It'd be autosync'd if Ubuntu/Xubuntu didn't have a patch in it (Scroll wheel for ncurses.)
<brainwash> ok, so it will be upgraded eventually, if someone requests it
<Unit193> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/trusty/xfce4-terminal/trusty/view/head:/debian/patches/xubuntu_alternate-scroll.patch you see where it's Xubuntu only?
<brainwash> you mean ubuntu specific?
<brainwash> maybe it should be forwarded upstream
<brainwash> it's a hidden setting after all
<Noskcaj> Unit193, I've already merged terminal, just need a sponsor. 
<Unit193> Yes, but it's not uploaded, soo.
<Noskcaj> So ping micah a lot, because he can upload it, or wait till i get MOTU (which you could help with)
<brainwash> how many testimonials do you need?
<Noskcaj> brainwash, as many as possible. I got membership in 4 minutes because of how many i had for that.
<forestpiskie> Noskcaj: I got around to doing th testimonial. 
<Noskcaj> thanks forestpiskie 
<forestpiskie> Noskcaj: I got around to doing th testimonial. 
<forestpiskie> random user with opinion is better than random user ...
#xubuntu-devel 2014-01-01
<Unit193> DanChapman: Howdy.
<DanChapman> Howdy Unit193, and happy new year :-)
<Unit193> Happy new year indeed.
<jarnos> If I suspend by the log out dialog or by Action buttons, xflock4 is not called. What code is used, instead? What code xfce4-power-manager uses to lock?
<brainwash> xflock4 is used if you tell xfce4-settings to do so
<brainwash> jarnos: settings > session and startup > last tab
<jarnos> brainwash, I see. However, if gnome-screensaver daemon is running, screen will be locked by it, if you have decided not to lock before sleep in settings.
<brainwash> so? that's not a Xfce issue
<brainwash> you need to configure gnome-screensaver
<jarnos> brainwash, I don't see how you could do it.
<brainwash> usually via dconf
<jarnos> brainwash, but if you suspend using xfce4-power-manager, and you have chosen in its preferences not to lock, it won't lock even if gnome-screensaver daemon is running.
<brainwash> jarnos: so it does not suspend via logind and calls upower directly I would assume
<brainwash> so what is the actual problem? xubuntu does not ship with gnome-screensaver
<brainwash> if you encounter the same issue with light-locker (fork of gnome-screensaver), please file a bug report on launchpad
<jarnos> brainwash, is Xubuntu T going to be using light-locker in xflock4 ?
<brainwash> jarnos: yes
<brainwash> patch for xflock4 does already exist, but the branch needs to be merged
<jarnos> brainwash, is the script going to be changed for xfce, too, or just xubuntu?
<brainwash> you mean upstream?
<jarnos> brainwash, yes
<brainwash> don't know
<jarnos> brainwash, light-locker depends on lightdm, but I guess xfce can be used with other display managers, as well.
<jarnos> brainwash, where can I see the patch for xflock4?
<brainwash> xflock4 simply tries to trigger known screen locker, and light-locker is kinda new
<brainwash> jarnos: bug 1254366
<ubottu> bug 1254366 in xfce4-session (Ubuntu) "Add support for light-locker in xflock4" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1254366
<jarnos> brainwash, thanks, I have been working on a patch for xflock4 in upstream, and I could try to take that into account.
<brainwash> sounds great :)
<brainwash> gottcode: hey, I've noticed something strange after upgrading to whisker menu 1.3, editing or changing .desktop files somehow crashes the panel plugin
<brainwash> it happened while I was editing one file via text editor and also while apt-get was applying package updates
<brainwash> I'll try to get some debugging information later
<knome> i'm back.
<knome> had a nasty stomach illness meanwhile, i hope you all were at least a bit better...
<gottcode> brainwash: I will look into that shortly
<jarnos_> I have been  trying light-locker in Saucy using this PPA: http://www.webupd8.org/2013/08/lightdm-session-locker-light-locker.html
<jarnos_> I wonder, if there is some purpose in the light-locker daemon, which does not run on background btw. "light-locker-command -l" seems to work regardless of the daemon.
<jarnos_> Whereas "gnome-screensaver-command --lock" starts its respective daemon, if one is not running.
<brainwash> jarnos_: the daemon locks the session on suspend
<brainwash> when suspend is triggered via logind
<brainwash> and it also allows timed locking (after 10min)
<brainwash> this feature requires a recent version of light-locker
<jarnos_> brainwash, Do you mean it will lock screen only if you resume from suspend after e.g. 10 min?
<brainwash> the daemon locks the screen on suspend OR after 10min of inactivity (according to the screen saver extension of the X server)
<jarnos_> brainwash, oh, I see. I think xflock4 should then check, if the daemon is running, and use "light-locker-command -l "only then. I am going to address this in the bug report.
<jarnos_> brainwash, now, there it is: bug 1254366
<ubottu> bug 1254366 in xfce4-session (Ubuntu) "Add support for light-locker in xflock4" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1254366
<brainwash> jarnos_: ok, I'll test it as soon as I get access to my test system
<jarnos_> brainwash, good
<brainwash> currently everything is going slow, so it might take some time until the changes actually land in trusty
<jarnos_> brainwash, so I have not yet tested light-locker in trusty, but I think it is the same version as in the PPA I have been using. In short tests I have seen at least to issues:
<jarnos_> brainwash,  light-locker cannot fork, i.e.  "light-locker" runs just as "light-locker --no-daemon"
<jarnos_> brainwash,  if I lock by it and change to different tty and back, desktop is shown short time.
<jarnos_> Can anyone comfirm these in trusty?
<jarnos_> Not much issues reported, yet: https://github.com/the-cavalry/light-locker/issues
 * jarnos_ goes to sleep.
#xubuntu-devel 2014-01-02
<Noskcaj> If i don't get to the meeting tomorrow, http://paste.ubuntu.com/6676084/ summaries what i'd end up saying
<Noskcaj> *summarizes 
<DanChapman> Good Morning everyone :-)
<Unit193> Howdy.
<elfy> morning DanChapman 
<DanChapman> elfy, hey there :-) is there any news on when the user login fix will be released, last I heard it was in sponsor queue but that was a while ago. Think it might have been you that told me? 
<Unit193> It'd not been merged, as far as I know.
<elfy> afaik that ^^
<DanChapman> Unit193, elfy ok thanks :-)
<Unit193> Anything you needed with it?
<jarnos> Unit193, with what?
<Unit193> jarnos: Response to something DanChapman was referencing.  Howdy.
<DanChapman> Unit193, it's blocking the ubiquity autopilot tests running https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Ubiquity/view/Xubuntu/ so was just wondering on progress
<ochosi> brainwash: yeah, i'll try to tweak the current icon by adding an outline to it i think
<ochosi> brainwash: (i'm referring to the terminal icon)
<Unit193> DanChapman: Oh dear.
<Unit193> micahg: Any chance you can look at that (session merge) soon?  Turns out it's also blocking ubiquity autopilot tests for Xubuntu.
 * jarnos thinks light-locker needs a lot of testing, if it is going to be used as default.
<slickymaster> morning all
<Unit193> Howdy slick.
<slickymaster> hi Unit193, hope you had a merry christmas and a happy new year
<ali1234> ochosi: do you know anything about the checkboxes in libreoffice and gtk styling?
<brainwash> ali1234: some time ago I've pointed out an issue with xfdeskto 4.11 (theme not applied for desktop elements, see http://en.zimagez.com/zimage/onetwo.php), but I lost track of it after removing all desktop icons
<ali1234> right, that is the bug where it doesn't pick up the gtk style
<ali1234> several other people reported it
<brainwash> you've said that you were able to reproduce it somehow, or?
<ali1234> yeah
<brainwash> oh, so a report already exists?
<ali1234> someone mentioned it on the mailing list i think
<brainwash> ali1234: did not find anything about it
<brainwash> I'll file a report then
<ochosi> ali1234: hm, checkboxes in libreoffice? could you be a bit more specific than that?
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTgAzEJFQuY
<ochosi> so the flashing is good or bad? :)
<ochosi> or to put it differently, what exactly is the problem? the fact that with albatross there might be some artifacts left over when a checkbox is unticked?
<ochosi> (i can reproduce that btw, but never noticed)
<ali1234> with certain combinations of window manager and theme the box looks like it is ticked even when it is not
<ochosi> i'd guess that it's a bug with how LO tries to mimick gtk
<ochosi> yeah, ambiance has the same problem
<ali1234> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=73211
<ubottu> Freedesktop bug 73211 in UI "Unchecked checkboxes remain checked while mouse is over them" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<ochosi> yeah, strange, what i can confirm is that with ambiance and albatross, there's an artifact left over in the right top corner
<ochosi> but with greybird or numix, everything is totally fine
<ochosi> (v.4.1.3.2, saucy)
<ali1234> if you do this test in unity it behaves differently, but still depends on the theme
<ochosi> weird
<ochosi> yeah, well tbh with apps like firefox or LO and their gtk mimicking, that has been mostly a blackbox for me so far
<ochosi> you can only try to tweak certain things and then see the results and hope that it works
<ochosi> e.g. scrollbar-steppers in both apps
<jarnos> brainwash, what is the screen saver extension of the X server? 
<brainwash> jarnos: it's an extension for the X11 protocol, do you need any specific information?
<brainwash> it simply allows clients to change the image on a display, see "xset -q" for the current configuration
<brainwash> section "Screen Saver:"
<jarnos> brainwash, and light-locker could step in somehow? I didn't notice that with light-locker 1.0.0
<jarnos> brainwash, is there any other screensaver/locker that can do it?
<jarnos> brainwash, can it tell to save screen only when it locks screen?
<brainwash> jarnos: https://github.com/the-cavalry/light-locker/commit/42270ed055dfb3b586c453c83b9666d928385623
<brainwash> like I said before, you need a recent version of light-locker
<jarnos> brainwash, right
<jarnos> brainwash, xautolock provides similar features for any locker.
<elfy> ochosi: with the lightlocker ppa - should lock screen work? 
<elfy> or is something else stopping it still
<brainwash> elfy: you mean timed locking?
<brainwash> if yes, then you will have to use the daily ppa
<elfy> no - I mean Lock Screen from action buttons plugin
<elfy> I give up with all these ppa's - until someone else thinks it might be a good idea to have some sort of record of them
<elfy> or people bothered to reply to mails to the list
<brainwash> elfy: didn't you edit xflock4 manually already?
<elfy> brainwash: I did that - with the patch
<elfy> I've pretty much come to the conclusion that no-one's going to care less about QA until sometime in March
<elfy> it'll be too late then
<brainwash> isn't this the way how it usually works? :)
<elfy> no wonder people don't last long trying to get QA to work
<elfy> you might :) about it - but I'm :|
<brainwash> sometimes I'm like o.o
<brainwash> our major problem is that we lack a or more dedicated uploaders
<elfy> brainwash: so - as far as this lock screen thing goes - with the PPA I've got ( lightdm-gtk-greeter-team-stable-trusty.list) and the patched xflock4 should it work or not
<elfy> oh - and I've still got grey screen when I login 
<elfy> one of the major problems we-ve got is a lack of uploaders
<elfy> we've also got everyone paying lipservice to QA as well 
<elfy> I'm bored of asking people to tell me what's going on with what they're doing and everyone saying - yea we'll say - then me asking again - everytime we have a meeting
<brainwash> yes, the patched xflock4 should trigger light-locker
<elfy> then it doesn't work
<brainwash> can you upload the content of your xflock4 please?
<elfy> brainwash: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6679259/
<brainwash> to eliminate the grey screen you need lightdm-gtk-greeter 1.7.0 and xfwm4 + xfdesktop from Unit193's PPA
<brainwash> maybe xfdesktop from the xfce 4.12 PPA is already recent enough
<elfy> ppa:unit193/xfce
<elfy> that one?
<brainwash> yes
<elfy> I've got that one
<brainwash> you've also added the Xfce 4.12 ppa, right?
<brainwash> I think this one has a newer version of xfwm4 and therefore will override Unit193's version
<elfy> greeter is 1.7.0-0~ppa1~trusty / xfwm4 is 4.11.1-0ubuntu1~ppa0.13.10.1 / xfdesktop4 is 4.11.2-1~14.04 
<brainwash> yeah, it's a mess
<elfy> the PPA's I've got are in the mail I sent to the list 
<brainwash> should be "4.11.0+tabwin.git20131215.fa67b6a-1~14.04"
<elfy> as far as I knew those where the ones I needed
<elfy> brainwash: anyway - I'm not really here - just venting mostly
<elfy> cya later - I might be here for tonights meeting
<brainwash> so you will have to apt-pin or lock this version of xfwm4
<brainwash> ok, cya
<lderan> cheerio elfy 
<elfy> hi lderan 
<lderan> hi elfy :P
<brainwash> elfy: your xflock4 looks fine, so nothing happens if you lock the screen via menu?
<elfy> [16:12] <elfy> then it doesn't work
<brainwash> what happens if you run it inside a terminal window? /usr/bin/xflock4
<elfy> returns to prompt
<elfy> I'm really off now ;)
<brainwash> bye
<brainwash> ochosi: any thoughts regarding bug 1264563 ?
<ubottu> bug 1264563 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "switch-to-greeter does not set lock hint" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1264563
<knome> do we have a meeting? did you come to a resolution? :P
<elfy> was only ochosi who would not be able to make it 
<knome> oki
<knome> would somebody else chair? ;9
<elfy> though that said - I'm only just about here
<knome> !team | meeting time
<ubottu> meeting time: bluesabre, elfy, GridCube, jjfrv8, knome, micahg, mr_pouit, ochosi, pleia2, skellat, Unit193
<elfy> aah - it's a bot factoid ... 
<knome> ;)
<jjfrv8-work> just got called away. sorry.
<knome> np
<elfy> not really sure there's much point tbh atm - nothing is any different than it was last time
<knome> yep, was thinking the same
<knome> but i don't mind if people want to run through things
<elfy> I've nothing to say 
<Unit193> Nothing to say.
<knome> me neither; the illness and today's work got the most out of me for now :P
<elfy> only thing I'd say is we need to really get on top of getting things further than a handful of PPAs if any of it's going to be close for April
<knome> yes, i will get to tackle that in the next week/two
<pleia2> I pretty much took time off for holidays too, nothing new
<knome> pleia2, congrats for being able to have fun with it ;)
<pleia2> beaches++
<knome> hehe
<knome> not if it's around zero and blows a lot :P
<elfy> :)
<knome> (literally...)
<elfy> looks like next week then
<elfy> knome: we're due another storm tomorrow here - they've been closing the storm gates locally - high tide at the same time
<knome> elfy, ough
<lderan> oh dear
<knome> elfy, good luck
<elfy> I'll be driving around it it still :p
<lderan> hope it doesn't get too bad then
<elfy> well - that definitely appears to be a vote for no meeting today then :D
<knome> i'll be kind of here if somebody wants to chat
<knome> but mostly afk
<Unit193> I've noticed a couple oddities with either xfwm or xfdesktop.  Last night for suspend, before the dialog for what action you'd like to take pulled up, half the screen showed the xscreensaver 'pong' game.
<Noskcaj> I'm on satelite, so my internet will crash constantly
<knome> Unit193, lol
<elfy> Unit193: not seen that - just grey screen/no lock screen 
<knome> Unit193, games are good
<knome> ;)
<Unit193> knome: Yep, and the screensaver games I want to play sometimes. >_>
<knome> heh
<Unit193> elfy: Seems you don't/didn't have the right xfwm.
<elfy> seems not 
<elfy> given up 
<Unit193> xfwm 4.11.1 was released, but ~tabwin hasn't merged it in yet so current there is xfwm 4.11.0
<elfy> though tabwin looked nice for a while - now it's a black box instead of a grey box :)
<Unit193> If you poke ochosi, I'm sure he'd merge in latest master for you.
<elfy> I'm really not that worried about updating PPAs Unit193 
<Unit193> elfy: Sure, and this is just a test for tabwin, it doesn't have to land in Trusty.
<elfy> I understand that - would be nice though :)
<elfy> I'd certainly rather have that than a black terminal icon on a black panel ;)
<Unit193> Yes, I'd like tabwin as well and either way Xubuntu goes, I'll be using it.
<elfy> :)
 * Noskcaj10 still doesn't know what tabwin is
<elfy> I'm losing certainty with whiskermenu though, I thought it had command history as well 
<knome> Noskcaj10, press alt+tab
<Unit193> knome: So no meeting it seems, but should we consider what next one?
<elfy> Noskcaj10: you know when you alt+tab and get the grey box - the one we're talking about is black instead
<knome> Unit193, thu 7 jan 19utc
<Noskcaj10> ok
<Unit193> Noskcaj10: http://wiki.xfce.org/design/xfwm4/tabwin
<elfy> knome: 9th is Thursday 
<knome> lol
<knome> yes 9jan
<elfy> :)
<Noskcaj> I pre-made my meeting #infos if anyone want a look. http://paste.ubuntu.com/6676084/
<GridCube> ?
<Unit193> This is the interesting one for sure: "debian have fixed the power manager systemd issue in svn, it should be uploaded soon"
<Noskcaj> http://anonscm.debian.org/viewvc/pkg-xfce/desktop/branches/experimental/xfce4-power-manager/
<Unit193> Mhmm, I looked.
<knome> Noskcaj, team: check your mail.
<lderan> woo for Noskcaj :D
<ochosi> elfy: yeah, if you want command history currently, go with appfinder
<Noskcaj> yay, thanks knome 
<ochosi> Unit193: merge in what where?
<knome> Noskcaj, np. patience and hard work will always be rewarded :)
<Unit193> ochosi: xfwm master to tabwin. :P
<ochosi> Unit193: ah right. did that a short while ago, was there anything of interest added after that?
<ochosi> also, i'm expecting the merge to happen the other way round soonish
<Unit193> ochosi: No, nothing interesting really, just a default change but more importantly, version bump making the xfce-4.12 ppa higher. :P
<Unit193> Sure, that's great!
<Unit193> (Not a big deal to me at least, I don't use the other ppa.)
<lderan> knome, i need to work on the hard working part :P
<elfy> knome: I'll be proposing slicky for that as well 
<knome> we should propose lderan as well
<elfy> I'd +1 that
<Unit193> Mhmm, to both.  Slick (come on, MIB reference?) does QA and Docs.
<elfy> yep
<knome> proposals done.
<knome> i'm off to sauna
<knome> see you later
<lderan> cheerio
<elfy> cya knome 
<brainwash> so I've compiled the panel and the indicator area looks fine now, but the panel ignores the wrapper1 panel plugins and cannot be made transparent anymore
<brainwash> Noskcaj: any news regarding your xfce4-panel packages? still some build errors left?
<Noskcaj> brainwash, the ppa has an old version of panel, since i never got a working tarball from master. If someone could make that, i can get the ppa finished when i get home
<brainwash> mmh
<Unit193> jjfrv8: Hah, nice. (Also also sounds good.)
<elfy> :)
<elfy> bye
<brainwash> Noskcaj: how do you create a working tarball?
<Noskcaj> brainwash, ./autogen.sh HEAPS_OF _OPTIONS && make distutils
<Noskcaj> i think
<brainwash> but I'm likely to encounter the same error you do, or?
<Unit193> It just needs newer garcon than in repo.
<Noskcaj> brainwash, probably. I think i was just missing some other deps
<Noskcaj> Unit193, it's in the ppa
<pleia2> knome: yay new members! exciting :)
#xubuntu-devel 2014-01-03
<ochosi> knome: i'll spare the ml the +1s for the new members
<slickymaster> morning all
<ochosi> morning
<slickymaster> hi ochosi. what's the situation with http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=xfdesktop-docs? is there anything else that needs to be done?
<ochosi> sry, i was travelling/afk until today, so i haven't really had time to look at it
<slickymaster> ok
<ochosi> i've forwarded it to eric and nick, received some feedback from eric
<ochosi> will try to go through that today
<slickymaster> that sounds like a plan
<knome> ochosi, yes please ;)
<slickymaster> hi, knome
<knome> ochosi, the emails said "if there are no objections", not "if everybody agrees" anyway ;)
<knome> hey slickymaster 
<ochosi> knome: i know, that's why i never planned to reply, but since ppl started i thought i'd chip my +1 in here
 * knome shrugs
<knome> nice for the proposed members though ;)
<Unit193> knome: That's how I read it.
<knome> slickymaster, i suspect you've read the mailing list?
<slickymaster> knome: no, not yet knome. my 2014 start has been kind of bumpy
<knome> slickymaster, okay.
<knome> slickymaster, just so that you know, i've proposed you as a new ~xubuntu-team member.
<knome> slickymaster, and you'll be one in a few days...
<knome> ochosi, hacking session with xubuntu-related things some time next week on weekend?
<slickymaster> knome: thanks.
<knome> ochosi, or at least a check-in where we are and what we need
<knome> no problem :)
<ochosi> knome: yeah, we should throw together a wiki page or something
<ochosi> bbiab
<knome> well we should just track the blueprints better ;)
<knome> or, make them track the real situation
<knome> and fill in with work items
<knome> but if you fancy working with the wiki instead... sure
<knome> bbiab
<ochosi> knome: i mostly want something that eats less of my time than launchpad (given my slow connection, it's really sluggish)
<Unit193> QA is using Trello.
<ochosi> yeah, that might be an alternative
<knome> trello might not be the ideal alt for having to create new accounts and stuff
<knome> but we could work on it on a pad or so
<knome> ultimately the goal means more than the method ;)
<ochosi> slickymaster: http://dpaste.com/1534821/
<ochosi> (feedback from eric)
<ochosi> slickymaster: sorry, copy-paste fail, full feedback here: http://dpaste.com/1534821/
<slickymaster> ochosi: saw it, we'll have to discuss this with jjfrv8 to address eric's comments
<slickymaster> ochosi: besides the multiple monitor issue, which I'm not able to deal with, I will address his points concerning the Usage page
<ochosi> thanks a lot!
<ochosi> yeah, i think we can resolve these things together
<ochosi> i'll try to help where i can
<ochosi> (also do the multi-monitor screenshots if needed)
<slickymaster> jjfrv8: ^^^
<jjfrv8> slickymaster, aye
<jjfrv8> ochosi, I've already got several mulit-monitor screenshots up there but I put in on hold when I found out from Eric that the infobar was missing in our version.
<jjfrv8> ochosi, I haven't added the screenshots to the docs, but they're in Media Manager ready to go.
<jjfrv8> I'm not really here yet :)  bbl
<brainwash> ochosi: are you ignoring bug 1264563 ? :P
<ubottu> bug 1264563 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "switch-to-greeter does not set lock hint" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1264563
<brainwash> setting the lock hint on a normal switch-to-greeter action would be somewhat bad I think, because the greeter would blank the screen
<ochosi> brainwash: i actually expected cavalier to do a MR for the patch, the rest is up to robert_ancell as that's in lightdm
<ochosi> or you can also do a MR if you want
<ochosi> i introduced the lock_hint changes due to a bug in lightdm (which was later resolved), i don't really see the downside to using that though if lightdm handles the lock_hint correctly
<elfy> knome> but if you fancy working with the wiki instead... sure ... ochosi> knome: i mostly want something that eats less of my time than launchpad (given my slow connection, it's really sluggish)
<elfy> that'll not be the wiki then :p
<ochosi> well, at least not the ubuntu wiki :)
<elfy> :)
<elfy> if it's xubuntu then it shouldn't be some private thing should it ;)
<ochosi> well, not ubuntu-wiki doesn't mean private
<ochosi> also, the results of the sprint will be fed into the blueprints anyway
<elfy> private probably isn't what I should have said 
<ochosi> it's just about the tool for the process
<elfy> anyway - not really all that bothered tbh 
<ochosi> (and i also don't use online public editors to write patches ;))
<elfy> I'll not be doing anything with it for obvious reasons
<elfy> so I'll just wait and see if something turns up in something I read 
<ochosi> that'll almost certainly happen
<ochosi> unless we dont get anything done
<elfy> ochosi: to be frank - I'll be looking for it in update manager so I can purge PPAs :D 
<knome> yeah, he's just trolling
<elfy> lol
<knome> i mean ultimately, even if all real xubuntu development was done in PM's, who cares if it's good? :P
<elfy> I don't :)
<knome> (no, i don't really think like that, but there's some wisdom in that)
<ochosi> elfy: i think that might take a while...
<ochosi> and we'll only be working on a *plan* on how to resolve most of these things, it'll take more time (and other ppl) to resolve them
<elfy> ochosi: well - we have 14 weeks 
<ochosi> i know
<elfy> I'm afraid that I've become increasingly despondent as the weeks roll by - ignore me 
<elfy> bbl - off to fight the weather again
<ochosi> elfy: don't be, i mean i'm also feeling like that sometimes, but still
<brainwash> ochosi: so this should be fixed in lightdm-gtk-greeter or in lightdm?
<ochosi> brainwash: as i haven't tested this, does removing the lock_hint-check resolve the whole issue?
<brainwash> light-locker tells lightdm to do "switch-to-greeter" when you resume the system from suspend, but this action does not set the lock hint
<brainwash> only "lock" does set this hint
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> so that's what i've understood so far and why i think it should be fixed in lightdm
<ochosi> cause as you put in the report, switch-to-greeter does lock the session
<ochosi> (or should)
<brainwash> ok, but this will blank the screen on resume or when a user manually switches to the greeter
<brainwash> yes, switch-to-greeter does also lock your user session
<brainwash> is the additional screen blanking a valid problem?
<brainwash> because if you manually switch to the greeter, you might not want the screen to blank
<brainwash> only when you lock the session via "lock"
<ochosi> hm, yeah, that's true
<ochosi> sry, brb, lunchtime
<brainwash> but not on a user switch for example
<brainwash> ok
<jarnos> elfy, are you still using this xflock4? http://paste.ubuntu.com/6679259/ I guess it won't run light-locker, if gnome-screensaver is installed. In here you can find an xflock4, that should be better: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3770 
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 3770 in General "xflock4 should check wich screensaver is *running*" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<jarnos> elfy, current lates proposal is http://bug-attachment.xfce.org/attachment.cgi?id=5295
<ochosi> brainwash: i'm back
<ochosi> so i guess the desired behavior from the greeter is to only blank the screen on time-based locking or on user-activated locking, otherwise (i.e. suspend-locking and user-switch-locking) it shouldn't blank the screen cause the user will want to see the greeter
<brainwash> ochosi: ok, so how can we fix this to work properly?
<ochosi> i havent looked at the code yet, but i'll take a look in a little while
<brainwash> does the proposed patch for the greeter break anything?
<slickymaster> elfy ping me when you'll have a chance to
<ochosi> brainwash: well you tell me, i haven't tested it yet :)
<brainwash> ochosi: works for me so far
<brainwash> so lets merge it :D
<ochosi> i'll try to test it in a little while
<ochosi> still have some stuff i gotta clean up
<slickymaster> ochosi: ping
<ochosi> slickymaster: pong
<slickymaster> ochosi, do you now if there were any changes made to the default keyboard shortcuts?
<ochosi> you mean in xubuntu?
<ochosi> in trusty?
<slickymaster> with today's daily build Super+T isn't opening terminal emulator
<slickymaster> yes
<slickymaster> and yes
<ochosi> strange
<slickymaster> presently the default number of shortcuts is way less than what it used to be
<ochosi> i don't know anything about it at least
<slickymaster> no shortcut for terminal, thunar
<ochosi> are you in the correct session?
<slickymaster> good point :)
<slickymaster> let me check
<slickymaster> nops
<slickymaster> :(
<ochosi> hm
<ochosi> well the session fix really needs to land asap
<ochosi> micahg: you around by any chance yet?
<slickymaster> yes, asap
<slickymaster> it has this effect
<slickymaster> we always landing in a xfce session these days
<ochosi> :/
<slickymaster> we're ^^
<ochosi> i'm afraid that many potential uploaders are still away till the 6th or even 7th
<slickymaster> yeah, but you're right ochosi we really need the session fix to land urgently 
<brainwash> nothing is urgent :)
<ochosi> the problem is that everyone has known that before christmas already, but there are no uploaders
<ochosi> so things are stalling
<slickymaster> hey, wait a minute
<slickymaster> presently, I'm in a xubuntu session and facing the same thing
<brainwash> and becoming an uploader seems to be quite stressful and takes ages
<slickymaster> there are no shortcuts defined by default to either to thunar or to termina
<ochosi> slickymaster: only those two are missing?
<slickymaster> let me compare it with my stable trusty box
<brainwash> slickymaster: you did start the normal xfce session first, so you will have to remove the config stuff in ~/.config
<slickymaster> ochosi: gnumeric, abiword, gmusicbrowser and several others
<slickymaster> yeah, I'm thinking the same brainwash 
<slickymaster> I'll do it in a sec
<ochosi> i just checked, xubuntu-default-settings hasn't been altered
<ochosi> it's still the version from saucy in trusty
<slickymaster> ochosi, brainwash, the stuff in ~/.config was the culprit
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> well i wouldn't have had a better explanation for now...
<elfy> slickymaster: ping if it's a quick thing
<slickymaster> elfy, it's about your comment on bug 1264525
<ubottu> bug 1264525 in Ubuntu Manual Tests "Mousepad testcases probably need refactoring" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1264525
<slickymaster> it doesn't happens to me when I double click the file
<elfy> oh yea - I was looking at that last night - must have had a duff thing going on here somewhere
<slickymaster> even though the initial bud description by the reporter should be addressed
<elfy> oh hang on - I'm talking about pleia2's pidgin thing
<slickymaster> I'll do it in the weekend and will propose a merge
<elfy> do what?
<slickymaster> rewrite the test
<elfy> slickymaster: actually do whatever - this is turning into a long thing - I'm not concentrating at all
<slickymaster> the reporter is right
<elfy> ^^
<slickymaster> ok, i'll do it
<elfy> ok - back tomorrow at some point 
<ochosi> brainwash: http://git.io/TaKJFQ
<brainwash> ochosi: subtle addition :)
<brainwash> this version should be ok
<brainwash> until someone else starts to complain about it
<brainwash> ochosi: any drafts available for the xfce4-panel default layout and configuration of the new panel plugins?
<brainwash> and choice of indicators over plugins (e.g. indicator-session or action button panel plugin)
<brainwash> whisker-menu offers quite some settings which could be adjusted for Xubuntu
<ochosi> brainwash: i started with a draft before xmas, but haven't continued with it tbh
<ochosi> i'm not sure about the session-menu tbh, it doesn't work well with what we have and would have to be patched
<ochosi> the indicator-power is something i'd pick though and simply hide xfce4-powerman's trayicon
<brainwash> what about indicator-power, -bluetooth, -date/time?
<ochosi> hm, nah, datetime also needs patches
<ochosi> because it opens the datetime settings of ubuntu iirc
<brainwash> yea right
<ochosi> indicator-power has the same issue, but i've already written the patch for it
<ochosi> there's little that indicator-datetime can do the panel-clock can't
<ochosi> so from my pov, it'd be: power,sound,messages,application and maybe bluetooth (haven't tested that one yet) by default
<ochosi> i'm currently thinking of a single-panel layout
<brainwash> ok, should I create a report for shimmer-themes to request the button glow effect in the sound menu?
<brainwash> if you hover over the play button for example
<ochosi> yeah, i know what you mean
<ochosi> it's not working in gtk3 only iirc
<brainwash> it bugs me.. you cannot make the seen unseen >.<
<brainwash> not working in gtk3 only?
<ochosi> i think in gtk2 it should work
<ochosi> (unless they broke something there)
<brainwash> ah, maybe
<brainwash> but we don't care about that anymore
<brainwash> trusty needs our attention
<ochosi> yeah, well there's still the fallback option to go with gtk2 indicators for trusty in case things fail
<ochosi> anyway, gotta check the gtk3 indicator code now
<ochosi> ali1234: have you tried gtkparasite in 13.10? (or: with gtk3.8)
<sergio-br2> the default shortcut to terminal is not Ctrl+Alt+T ?
<slickymaster> Noskcaj, when you'll get a chance to, ping me on bug 1262492
<ubottu> bug 1262492 in xfce4-panel (Ubuntu) "An empty launcher is created instead of a complete launcher in xfce panel" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1262492
<slickymaster> I'm wondering if it really should be considered a bug instead of user request
<slickymaster> sergio-br2: the default shortcut in Xubuntu is Super+T
<slickymaster> sergio-br2: Ctrl+Alt+T is the default shortcut in Ubuntu
<sergio-br2> hum, but in ISO is Ctrl+Alt+t, or not?
<slickymaster> no, still Super+T
<Unit193> slickymaster: Pretty sure we fixed that in saucy though.
<sergio-br2> hum, but it's a bit strange, if whisker menu will be the default menu for xfce. Because Super open the whisker menu...
<sergio-br2> well, if you make the config to it
<slickymaster> sergio-br2: whisker doesn't comes shipped by default
<sergio-br2> yes, it is what i said before.
<ochosi> we haven't settled on a default shortcut if whiskermenu is there by default
<ochosi> could be something like super+spacxe
<slickymaster> got to run now, bbl
<sergio-br2> there is 2 shortcut that works in ubuntu, but not in xubuntu. The shortcut for Calculator and the enable/disable touchpad. I can config this, but i don't know why it does not come as ubuntu
<holstein> sergio-br2: they are the same repos, and xubuntu is an official spin, but it doesnt have to be the same as, nor try to emulate, necessarily, ubuntu in any way
<sergio-br2> yes, but for a noob user, he expects that his shortcut for calculator, for example, works out-of-box.
<sergio-br2> like others, such touchpad enable/disable, bright up and down, sound level...
<holstein> sergio-br2: personally, ive never expected a shortcut to a calculator.. but, those shortcuts are editable
<holstein> sergio-br2: you cant ever please everyone...
<ochosi> +1
<sergio-br2> hum, yeah, it's true
<brainwash> but you are talking about the media keys or?
<sergio-br2> i'm talking about Fn + other keys
<brainwash> you could add missing ones if possible and create a patch
<sergio-br2> i'm searching the files to make the patch
<sergio-br2> xfce4-settings ?
<brainwash> xubuntu-default-settings I guess
<sergio-br2> ok
<Unit193> I'd presume restoring the old C+A+Esc xkill keybind wouldn't do.
<brainwash> sergio-br2: bug 1165266
<ubottu> bug 1165266 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "missing keyboard shortcuts" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1165266
<ochosi> bbiab
<sergio-br2> interesting
<Unit193> So what all pull requests are pending ?
<Unit193> Didn't blues have two?
<brainwash> ouch.. bug 1227637
<ubottu> bug 1227637 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "non existing key specified in override file" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1227637
<brainwash> sometimes it's really sad that fixes/patches get delayed so much :(
<Unit193> https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-default-settings/trunk/+activereviews - https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/ubuntu-seeds/xubuntu.trusty/+activereviews  And what, other times it's a happy thing? :P
<brainwash> most of the time it's simply "whatever" :D
<brainwash> however, people like and use Xubuntu, so this 14.04 LTS release should be an awesome one
<brainwash> does Xfce restore running apps even if this feature is unticked?
<brainwash> I never used this before, but it really behaves strange.. no wonder so many users complain about it and flood the forums with threads about it
<sergio-br2> in saucy there was a problem with this, but in trusty it's work right, i think
<jarnos> brainwash, are you using it in 13.10?
<jarnos> Bad session memory has been a long time issue with Xfce, so it is good, if it is fixed for the future release.
<ochosi> jarnos: you're also using xubuntu?
<jarnos> ochosi, yes, 13.10
<ochosi> yeah, i've also seen some session problems in 13.10, but as i've "polluted" my system with tons of components from git, i'm not sure it's not my fault :)
<jarnos> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10593
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10593 in General "Session autosaves on logout even if the option is disabled" [Normal,New]
<ochosi> i see
<ochosi> not sure i'd call it a long-time issue, 4.10.1 isn't that old yet (in xfce release time)
<jarnos> ochosi, yes, but I have had different kind of problems with it before. It couldn't remember sessions right or something...
<ochosi> mhm
<jarnos> ochosi, Then I had to delete xfce session cache from ~/.cache/sessions
<jarnos> doing that after logout might help to forget xfce session in 13.10 ;)
<jarnos> ochosi, brainwash sergio-br2 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-panel/+bug/1204919/comments/7 So has this behavior changed somehow in trusty? It has the same version of xfce4-session, right?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1204919 in xfce4-panel (Ubuntu) "4.10.1 version affects session autosave so it couldn't be switched off" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<knome> micahg-work, micahg: ping me when you're around.
<sergio-br2> jarnos, if you save some session, and after you choose to not save session, then the last save session will be used by the system
<jarnos> sergio-br2, yes, it is the same in saucy.
<ochosi> have you checked whether the xfconf variable remains set?
<sergio-br2> but this option, "Automatically save session on logout", is working well in trusty. If you check this, it saves the session, if you don't check, it will not save the session. But in Saucy there is a problem with this option.
<sergio-br2> jarnos, so, you think that if you uncheck session save options, the next session could be an empty session?
<sergio-br2> If you uncheck session save option, it does not necessarily mean that you want to erase the previous saved sessions.
<jarnos> sergio-br2, I don't see the problem in saucy. 
<sergio-br2> hum, so, it was fixed? A month ago i was with this problem. Don't know.
<jarnos> sergio-br2, many people tend to assume that if you choose "do not save" it means "start next time empty session". I guess it is too hard to find the option to start like that.
<jarnos> sergio-br2, how did it behave then?
<sergio-br2> "many people tend to assume that if you choose "do not save" it means "start next time empty session"" , yeah, this happened with me, i thought like this hehe :)
<sergio-br2> i know that you have to erase the previous saved session manually, but i don't know what the better xfce behavior after you choose "do not save"
<sergio-br2> i tested this in trusty
<jarnos> sergio-br2, it could have another checkbox then : "delete saved session"
<sergio-br2> but there is this option in Session tab, "Clear saved sessions" button, take a look
<jarnos> sergio-br2, yes there is, but it could be in the logout window, too. I think it would be more intuitive.
<sergio-br2> hum, yeah, this would be an wish list
<jarnos> sergio-br2, or it could be like "Use saved session on next login"
<sergio-br2> but there is something like this, try to check "Display chooser on login" option in General tab and do a logout and login, then you will see an window, with the saved session (Default) and a "New session" button.
<jarnos> sergio-br2, good point.
<sergio-br2> jarnos, if there is no saved session, then there is no window for session choice, even if "Display chooser on login" is checked
<sergio-br2> *in the login
#xubuntu-devel 2014-01-04
<jarnos> sergio-br2, does your Session tab show all applications?
<sergio-br2> all open applications? I think no
<jarnos> sergio-br2, odd, if you can't see session name else than in login.
<sergio-br2> jarnos, you mean: Firefox and gmusicbrowser in Session tab, for example?
<jarnos> sergio-br2, yes
<jarnos> sergio-br2, and as for session name, default, or any name I gave to it.
<sergio-br2> i saved the session, and they does not appear in Session tab... even if i do logout and login, and goes to this tab
<sergio-br2> but i don't know if this is the expected behavior.
<sergio-br2> and dunno how to change session name
<jarnos> sergio-br2, how to even check session name, if you forgot which session you logged to?
<sergio-br2> there are only xfwm4, Thunar, xfce4-panel, and other things in Session tab. Does anyone knows if it is the expectade behavior?
<sergio-br2> jarnos, i didn't undertand your question
<jarnos> sergio-br2, if you created a new session in the "chooser" on login, you can give a name to it. But how do you see the session name while you are in that session?
<sergio-br2> you are using saucy or trusty?
<jarnos> sergio-br2, s
<sergio-br2> jarnos, i don't know
<sergio-br2> good question
<elfy> ochosi: you put a thin white line around the terminal icon - that is a whole lot better :)
 * elfy ticks something of his list of things to whine about :)
 * Unit193 puts 3 more on.
<elfy> dressed finally then ... 
<ochosi> forestpiskie: well happy to make you feel a little less despondent
<forestpiskie> ha ha ha 
<forestpiskie> I'm now despondent about nickserv playing up :)
<forestpiskie> ochosi: I actually quite like that icon with it's thin white dress :)
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> good to hear
<ochosi> we'll see, i'm still considering to ship alternative appicons
<forestpiskie> tbf the only reason I noticed was down to setting everything to defaults and the shimmer ppa - normally I'd have faenza wolf
<ochosi> wolf?
<forestpiskie> seem to have now the constant transparent indicator panel since this morning's update to the theme
<ochosi> don't think it's related to the theme
<forestpiskie> faenzawolfev4
<ochosi> must be something else
<ochosi> hm, never heard of that, got a link for me?
<forestpiskie> k - thought I'd mention 
<ochosi> what version of the panel are you using now?
<forestpiskie> mmmm - I'll try - I just move the files from install to install
<forestpiskie> ochosi: I have the 4 ppas here - so whatever I get served up
<ochosi> ok, so not the panel from git master
<forestpiskie> nope
<ochosi> i think the ppa hasn't been updated, Noskcaj hasn't managed yet so we have to wait for him...
<forestpiskie> I'm trying to just stick with one thing here
<forestpiskie> yea, understood that 
<ochosi> yeah, sounds reasonable
<ochosi> anyway, most of that issue should be fixed as soon as the PPA gets updated
<forestpiskie> not sure where I got the icons from  - I can tar it up and send it you if you want
<ochosi> nah, i can check whether i can find them somewhere
<ochosi> or would you know what the diff is to "normal" faenza?
<forestpiskie> all I can find is normal one - the appearance/icons thing in settings - calls it v4
<forestpiskie> no idea what the diff is 
<ochosi> no problem
<forestpiskie> ochosi: not sure how I'm talking to you at all in here - mad netsplits and services missing and neither of us are in -devel as far as elfy is concerned :p
<ochosi> hehe, yeah, we're in the netherworld :)
<forestpiskie> spooky ... is the netherworld logged ... :>\
<elfy> and we're 
<forestpiskie> back
<ochosi> i think we should/could s/gthumb/shotwell/
<elfy> why? 
<knome> i'm +0, i probably don't use either
<elfy> just wondering the reasons  - never actually use either 
<elfy> lol - was just saying that :)
<elfy> hi sergio-br2 
<sergio-br2> hello elfy
<elfy> well I don't know where they're coming from - but I seem to see more people popping by and saying they need help with some aspect of testing - so perhaps the bombardment is beginning to make a difference
<elfy> not that I'm seeing it on the trackers
<sergio-br2> elfy, the bug #1210898 is fixed in xfce 4.12 ppa?
<ubottu> bug 1210898 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Thunar does not automatically mount removable drives and media" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1210898
<ochosi> hey pmjdebruijn 
<sergio-br2> i have trusty installed in my Itautec laptop, with xfce 4.12 ppa and others things to test the gtk3 indicators, and Thunar mount drives and media normally, and opens a thunar window too
<elfy> sergio-br2: well - those bugs are often intermittent 
<sergio-br2> but without ppa, with only iso, this is not intermittent, i guess
<elfy> and to prove it - I plugged in one that mounted fine earlier today - and now ... 
<elfy> no mounting by that
<ochosi> yeah, i think i can also reproduce it here
<ochosi> at least i did a while ago
<elfy> I've seen in intermittently for all the time I've used xubuntu - sometimes it works, others not - nothing to do with the PPA I'd guess
<sergio-br2> i have 3 usb flash drive, 2 of them mount automatically in xubuntu, with ppa
<sergio-br2> i realized that if a device is unmounted, it's not possible to eject it from right click in the desktop icon. It's possible only if you open Thunar, and right click in the right pane device icon.
<sergio-br2> Is it a know issue? Or can i disconnect my device if it is unmounted?
<pleia2> knome: you about?
<knome> just came back
<chris1983> hello, can someone help me?
<chris1983> i need to figure how to install the nvidia driver on a lenovo w530
<knome> chris1983, the support channel is #xubuntu 
<chris1983> ok, thx
<pleia2> knome: can we chat about the flyer a little?
<knome> pleia2, yep
<pleia2> ok cool, so afaict the google doc is still sort of our primary source
<knome> liekly
<knome> likely too
<pleia2> and in your design, do we print on both sides?
<knome> that's the idea, but i haven't had enough material to make a proof of concept from that yet
<pleia2> ok, that's what I thought
<pleia2> I'm going to go through this google doc now and make some changes there, maybe add some stuff too
<knome> okay
<knome> will you update the wiki with the final results?
<pleia2> the wiki is way out of date :) so yeah, I'll do my best to sync them up somehow
<knome> or, clearly state in the wikipage what is "approved", or the main body of work
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> i guess we could go from the gdoc to a pad
<knome> if we don't think the wiki is suitable for working on it, that is
<pleia2> can't put images in a pad :)
<knome> can put links to image files
<knome> the layout of the images is determined by the flow of the material anyway
<pleia2> but then I can't just clicky click add them
<knome> heh, sure, if that works better for you.. ;)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Since you have a merge request on -meta, want to s/gcalctool/gnome-calculator/ ?
<bluesabre> Unit193: gcalctool = gnome-calculator?
<Unit193> bluesabre: Yes.
#xubuntu-devel 2014-01-05
<brainwash> for trusty?
<Unit193> Well, it's already a transitional package now, so doesn't exist.
<Unit193> !info gcalctool
<ubottu> gcalctool (source: gnome-calculator): gnome-calculator is a powerful graphical calculator for GNOME (transitional package). In component universe, is optional. Version 1:3.8.2-1ubuntu4 (saucy), package size 42 kB, installed size 88 kB
<brainwash> could have been changed in raring already :P
<Unit193> But wasn't, so why not now?
<ochosi> indeed
<brainwash> I like changes
<brainwash> so lets make sure that trusty will be awesome
<ran> hi. there is a known bug about logging the results of fsck?
<holstein> ran: not that im aware of.. did you see anything in lp?
<Unit193> /var/log/fsck exists, but nothing of interest for me.
<holstein> i have nothing logged there
<ran> im not a developer, but in the past boot.log has showed the results of fsck. sorry about my english.
<ran> this is very important data, and this was the only easy way to read the results of fsck.
<Unit193> ran: 1. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mountall/+bug/513644  2. What happens if you remove  quiet  from the grub options?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 513644 in mountall (Ubuntu) "Does not log fsck invocations in /var/log/fsck/" [Wishlist,Triaged]
<ran> i dont see anything, until the password screen.
<Unit193> http://doc.ubuntu-fr.org/xubuntu Huh.
<Noskcaj> Unit193, PPA updated, will indicator need a rebuild?
<Noskcaj> hey elfy 
<elfy> hi Noskcaj 
<Noskcaj> the version of panel in my ppa is updated to git master, thanks to Unit193 
<elfy> ok - apt will be having a look shortly I'd hope - keeping an eye on software updater working - not that I use it when it tells me :p
<Unit193> Noskcaj: Shouldn't.  Also, you version weirdly. :P
<Noskcaj> Unit193, For panel, it's copying from lionel's PPA
<Noskcaj> for everything else, stop h8ing ;)
<Unit193> Nah. .master.gitdoij44r. ;P
<Unit193> Anywho, you should be set then.
<Noskcaj> now if apt-get update would be less slow, i could actually test it
<elfy> fast enough here :p
<elfy> just got those updates - what does the newer panel fix?
<Noskcaj> It's actually from master, for one
<Unit193> elfy: Tries to fix transparency, not quite though.
<elfy> the whole panel is now transparent - not just the indicator bit 
<elfy> is that what you mean by not quite?
<elfy> nvm
<elfy> had it set to transparent - it's just not been working for ages - forgot the setting :D
<Unit193> elfy: Wait, so everything is actually working now?
<Unit193> elfy: Can you set a panel bg?
<elfy> looks to be 
<elfy> hang on will look
<Unit193> Hrm, I may have to install it.
<elfy> yep
<elfy> lets me set bg fine
<Unit193> Well that was issue one, second was icons too large and indicator-sound had dumb deps or recommends.  I'll try it for sure though on a VM or something that's easier to revert.
<elfy> only oddity I can see at moment - right click on something populating panel to get it's menu - highlights in system colour
<elfy> right click on ind panel and highlighting is odd
<elfy> not easy to explain that - so http://i.imgur.com/yYLDQmZ.png
<Unit193> Ah, strange, but not too bad.
<elfy> nope - I agree - not 'bad' but strange :)
<elfy> all in all - it's looking good imo 
<elfy> nice to have the gtk3 inds - even if we don't want to use them 
<Noskcaj> hey DanChapman 
<DanChapman> Noskcaj, hey there :-)
<elfy> hi DanChapman 
<DanChapman> Good Morning elfy
<Unit193> Yep, would be easier on here since it only has indicator-messages-gtk2 indicator-status-provider-pidgin libappindicator1 libappindicator3-1 and libindicator-messages-status-provider1 from other releases.
<elfy> wouldn't know - too voodooie for me :p
<Unit193> indicator-sound is held too, libindicator7 and indicator-messages it seems as well. :P
<Unit193> VM it is.
<elfy> mmm - I see date is still borked though
<Unit193> Menulibre2 should hopefully be ready for testing soon.
<elfy> good
<elfy> #panicsetsin
<elfy> changing theme or icons still sets the ind panel to transparent
<ochosi> elfy: that's not only a problem related to the panel
<ochosi> all gtk3 apps have a hard time with changing themes
<ochosi> you have to mostly close and restart them after changing themes
<ochosi> one of the less-fun regressions of gtk3 over gtk2
<elfy> ok - I thought that was the case - just pointing out what I see :)
<ochosi> sure thing
<elfy> the date thing is odd - saw a bug for it - but if we're not using that ind then I'm meh
<ochosi> i think the indicator-plugin also needs an update
<ochosi> we're using the latest release, but there were some fixes after that with respect to label width
<ochosi> so this is how the new panel looks in saucy: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-01052014-102435am.php
<ochosi> Unit193: ^
<Unit193> Yeah, wasn't sure if you wanted to move back to snapshots since he kindly released some for you.
<ochosi> "he"?
<elfy> ochosi: if you were looking at the terminal icon in a panel like that - I'm not surprised you thought it was ok :)
<ochosi> elfy: haha, no well that never worked until just now ;)
<elfy> :p
<ochosi> so does transparency work for you now in trusty?
<elfy> yep
<ochosi> sweet
<ochosi> for the whole panel?
<ochosi> or just the gtk3 indicators
<elfy> http://imagebin.org/285245
<ochosi> and fwiw, i think i'll have to add text-shadows to the indicators in our theme (as you can see in the incosnsitency between the clock and the power-indicator time)
<ochosi> nice
<ochosi> feel free to remove the frame around the systray ;)
<elfy> I just did :)
<ochosi> actually, do you not have indicator-application installed?
<ochosi> because the nm-applet should also be an indicator
<elfy> 12.10.1+14.04.20131125-0ubuntu1
<ochosi> brainwash: sorry, i can't reproduce your xfdesktop theming problem so far (have relogged a few times now)
<elfy> ochosi: it is installed
<ochosi> strange that it isn't in use then...
<elfy> yea - sitting in notification area that is
<elfy> and it's not hidden 
<elfy> so other than that not working here - the only real odd looking thing is workspace switcher bg being black when it has miniature view
<elfy> looking good :)
<ochosi> it should normall automatically only show an indicator once indicator-application is found and the systray-icon is hidden automatically
<ochosi> nice, good to hear
<ochosi> well that's a problem of the workspace switcher itself, it was always like that
<ochosi> so it isn't a regression
<elfy> yea - understood - no idea why that application indicator isn't working here
<ochosi> yeah, we should try to find out
<elfy> yep - realise it's not a regression
<ochosi> what if you e.g. start transmission?
<ochosi> that should also have an app-indicator
<elfy> doesn't show up 
<ochosi> or, if you go to the settings of the indicator plugin
<ochosi> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-01052014-103614am.php
<ochosi> should look like this ^
<elfy> not got session management
<ochosi> well that's just another indicator
<elfy> I have bluetooth and kbd hidden 
<ochosi> so application is there?
<ochosi> in the list i mean
<ochosi> if not, check if you accidentally have indicator-application-gtk2 installed as well
<elfy> it is in the list 
<ochosi> hm
<ochosi> can you still check whether you have the gtk2 package installed?
<ochosi> (that'd at least explain it)
<elfy> not installed
<elfy> ind-application/libappindicator3-1 and xfce4-indicator-plugin
<elfy> are the only things installed synaptic finds with indicator-applica
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> then we have to find the problem elsewhere
<elfy> http://imagebin.org/285247
<elfy> just so you know what it looks like here 
<elfy> as always - more than happy to install/remove/fiddle with things as people point them out 
<ochosi> so the main regression is gone, we should really start trying to get that in the archive now
<ochosi> ok, thanks elfy
<Unit193> Erm, would have to wait on garcon and 3.11 release, I'd think.
<elfy> what was the main regression then? 
<ochosi> Unit193: you mean a 4.11.1 release of the panel?
<Unit193> Yep.
<ochosi> elfy: transparency and bg-image setting failed
<ochosi> Unit193: i'm not really sure that'll happen in time
<elfy> ochosi: oh right - that's been missing for a while 
<elfy> good to have it back though :)
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> Unit193: problem is, we can't pressure upstream to do a release of the panel just on behalf of our schedule
<ochosi> i mean we can, but it's not nice and probably won't work
<elfy> ochosi: I always end up with a desktop full of screenshots as soon as I start talking to you ... 
<elfy> :)
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> more problems?
<elfy> no - not at all :)
<ochosi> good :)
<elfy> the only shame is the lack of command history in whisker menu 
<elfy> I'll start hassling bluesabre for menulibre2 soon :)
<ochosi> yeah, well, not strictly a regression over the classical menu
<ochosi> from what i read, it's almost finished
<elfy> yep - read that in scrollback 
<elfy> no - not a regression - but without that I'm a bit +0 on whisker-menu 
<elfy> ochosi: do you know what the current state of play with light locker is - I've lost track completely
<ochosi> elfy: are you using/testing it atm?
<elfy> yep
<elfy> just the lock screen issue - I think - I saw something from jarnos re a fix from xfce end - but not had the chance to look more
<elfy> ie - lock screen isn't working with the patch hanging about on the LP bug report
<ochosi> so you edited /usr/bin/xflock4 and added the line for light-locker?
<elfy> yea 
<ochosi> could you paste the content of the file?
<elfy> the one I saw from jarnos was a lot of change - I did try renaming the current xflock4 to .bak and just putting in that one - but then lock screen just ended up disabled in the menu 
<elfy> http://pastebin.com/v2Gwszyy 
<elfy> current xflock4 
<elfy> http://bug-attachment.xfce.org/attachment.cgi?id=5295 was the thing I tried to use 
<ochosi> and you have xscreensaver uninstalled i presume?
<elfy> yep
<ochosi> with the file you pasted it should work
<elfy> and no gnome-screensaver obviously
<elfy> yea - that was what I thought - doesn't though
<ochosi> you could try to run xflock4 from the terminal and see whether there's any output at all
<elfy> just returns to the prompt
<ochosi> odd
<ochosi> and running light-locker-command -l directly?
<elfy> this particular install was a new vanilla - to which I added the few PPAs to get panel/tabwin etc in 
<elfy> light-locker: command not found
<ochosi> do you have light-locker installed?
<elfy> LMAO
<elfy> yes ... now ... 
<elfy> I told you I was all over the place ... 
<ochosi> ;)
<ochosi> then the xflock4 patch should work better
<elfy> ok - so light-locker works ok ... 
<ochosi> although after installing, you might have to restart your session
<elfy> just did it - locked and logged back in
<ochosi> sweet
<elfy> sorry for wasting time :(
<ochosi> no problem at all
<ochosi> the main thing is that it works
<ochosi> so please test that as much as you can :)
<ochosi> (suspend etc)
<ochosi> i'll try to get a few fixes needed for that into the greeter asap
<elfy> ok 
<ochosi> (currently it may show "log in" where it should say "unlock" after suspending)
<elfy> I'll look now 
<elfy> suspend comes right back to the desktop, perhaps it will need rebooting
<ochosi> possible, not sure
<elfy> locking - shows 'unlock' 
<ochosi> ok, that's good
<elfy> I'll reboot now - and then check what happens with suspend
<elfy> ochosi: ok - a few observations
<elfy> 1 - still got grey screen thing - assume that's somthing else anyway
<elfy> 2 - lock screen - works fine, showed 'lock' not login - came back to apps open when I locked screen
<ochosi> ad 1: yeah, that takes a few PPAs and not even then it's working for everyone
<elfy> 3 - suspend - showed me screen lock warning as it went down / when I brought it back - went to login - logged in to desktop with none of the apps open when I suspended / the 'names' of the various items on the desktop were in a highlighted box - all of them
<elfy> had to logout - then login again and got the session stuff back 
<elfy> that's all I saw
<ochosi> hm, 3 is strange
<brainwash> highlight box.. that's the xfdesktop theme bug :D
<ochosi> but i'll ask you to test again after i pushed some fixes to the greeter for that
<elfy> ok 
<elfy> brainwash: thanks 
<elfy> certainly this morning when I brought it back from suspend without light-locker installed it worked fine - other than just coming straight back to the desktop with no password :D
<elfy> so not really working 'fine' ... 
<brainwash> elfy: did you set the env var "INDICATOR_ALLOW_NO_WATCHERS=yes"?
<brainwash> if no, the nm-applet might fail to load as indicator
<brainwash> and fall back to notification icon
<elfy> ochosi: I tend to know when things get updated - I read the list of updated packages, if I see a light locker change I will be on the case to test suspend
<brainwash> see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Trusty/Gtk3Indicators
<brainwash> known issues
<elfy> brainwash: yep - did that - got all indicators here - excecpt the app inds for some reason 
<brainwash> elfy: are you sure that your system was able to suspend properly? the open apps should no vanish and stay open
<brainwash> not
<elfy> suspended - told me it was suspending - gave me some warning screen - turned off - came back to login screen - logged in - none of the open apps appeared - and they do that for any sort of restart for me 
<brainwash> and did the desktop icons look like this (right side) http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/onetwo.php ?
<elfy> so - logically I would say that it's not suspending properly with light-locker installed
<elfy> brainwash: yep - that's what I had - not orange though
<elfy> 2 ticks - I'll see if it replicates
<brainwash> the orange part is the default look with numix theme
<ochosi> brainwash: looks like ambiance actually
<elfy> ok - that cam back properly that time - just said login instead of unlock
<brainwash> I'll update my panel now and restore the missing items (compiling from source broke the wrapper-1.0 somehow, so some panel items got removed)
<ochosi> elfy: that's the known issue
<elfy> fleetingly saw a light locker message when it came back this time as well
<ochosi> that's not a huge problem i think
<ochosi> the locker message i mean
<elfy> ok - so not sure why I got all that earlier stuff - but the last 2 or 3 suspends seemed to be ok 
<elfy> yep
<elfy> ochosi: understood
<ochosi> ok, nice
<brainwash> login button instead of unlock one -> bug 1264563
<ubottu> bug 1264563 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "switch-to-greeter does not set lock hint" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1264563
<elfy> so - that's looking good - even better when it's installed :p
<ochosi> hehe
<elfy> knome: nice easy job for you to do - it's more than 48 hours now :)
<knome> what is
<elfy> and the 3 proposed people are missing from -team :)
<ochosi> nice catch :)
<elfy> I'm starting to wake up a bit ... 
<elfy> it's been a rather rubbish 4 weeks 
<knome> heh, yeah
<knome> elfy, what do you mean "missing"
<knome> O:P
<elfy> better late than never :D
<knome> yeah, being too exact never was the point
<elfy> brainwash: I me too'd that 
<knome> but thanks for the reminder
<elfy> knome: lol - welcome :)
<knome> also tweeted that
<knome> https://twitter.com/Xubuntu/status/419786110185648128
<elfy> slicky at least was someone I wanted in to team last cycle 
<elfy> woot
<elfy> knome: that trello board set up for qa seems to be working well as a tool by the way
<knome> aha
<knome> what are you working on in there
<elfy> http://imagebin.org/285258
<elfy> !team
<ubottu> bluesabre, elfy, GridCube, jjfrv8, knome, micahg, mr_pouit, ochosi, pleia2, skellat, Unit193
<elfy> knome: best change that as well then :p
<knome> what now
<knome> :P
<elfy> I'm really waking up ... 
<knome> my internet is meh
<knome> just started lagging
<elfy> I'd lend you some if I could 
<elfy> not much - just some :p
<knome> ughhh
<elfy> that good ... 
<brainwash> replaced my compiled version of xfce4-panel with the new PPA one, transparency is working now, but the mail and sound indicator are using a second (empty) row again
<brainwash> in deskbar mode I mean
<elfy> brainwash: looks ok here in deskbar mode
<elfy> jarnos: hi - caught your comments earlier re light-locker - thanks for those
<elfy> fixed it - I didn't have light-locker installed at all ... 
<elfy> brainwash: http://imagebin.org/285266
<brainwash> elfy: does it look ok after login? if you switch the mode mid session the glitch might not occur
<elfy> checking that
<brainwash> what happens if you hover over the mail indicator?
<brainwash> how big is the highlight box
<elfy> 2 rows - the deskbar is set at 2 rows
<elfy> aligned ind to left - highlights 2 rows
<ochosi> hover-size = panel-width x icon-height+widget-padding
<elfy> hang on - logging out/in
<ochosi> brainwash: i've lost track of that a bit over the holidays, but what's the status quo of the flicker-free desktop-transition?
<ochosi> do we have PPAs that fix that for everyone now?
<ochosi> or does it still need stuff compiled from source
<elfy> brainwash: no change 
<brainwash> ochosi: yes, Unit193's PPA (xfwm4, optionally xfdesktop) and a recent version of lightdm-gtk-greeter (1.7.0 for example)
<brainwash> elfy: thanks
<elfy> setting the panel back to not really annoying now then :)
<jarnos> elfy, you are welcome
<brainwash> ochosi: and it works for me (worked all the time with ali1234's fixes)
<elfy> back later - have a good day 
<ochosi> brainwash: has it worked for others as well?
<elfy> before I go - odd thing - panel preferences - hover over auto show and hide to get the tooltip
<elfy> you get the same tooltip on don't reserve space now
<elfy> seems that the don't reserve space thing doesn't make a difference now too - previously an app wouldn't overlap panel iirc
<ochosi> ?
<ochosi> the tooltips aren't the same for me here
<ochosi> and the functionality is also different
<ochosi> elfy ^
<brainwash> ochosi: not sure, Unit193 reported a strange black screen flicker
<ochosi> autohide hides the panel when there's no mouse-over
<ochosi> reserve-space keeps the panel on top of everything, so maximized windows go underneath it
<elfy> mmm - definitely the same tooltip here 
<brainwash> ochosi: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/i269.php
<ochosi> that is very strange, we're using the same package
<ochosi> brainwash: must be a problem with deskbar and indicators
<elfy> ochosi: - yea - agreed with the functionality - could have sworn that resizing would do the same behaviour
<elfy> but definitely different toolktips
<elfy> sigh 
<elfy> s/different/the same
<ochosi> i thought the tooltips are the same?
<ochosi> ah
 * ochosi is a little confused
<ochosi> so the functionality works
<ochosi> ?
<brainwash> ochosi: but I don't understand, it did not happen with my compiled version of the panel (git master), but now it happens again with the PPA version
<elfy> ochosi: yea - just rechecked - just tooltip oddity
<ochosi> elfy: still weird. could you ask other trusty testers about this later?
<ochosi> brainwash: it doesn't seem to happen for me with all indicators
<elfy> http://imgur.com/2cVgrlj,94e3V4T#0
<elfy> ochosi: yep will do 
<ochosi> brainwash: it might have something to do with the ellipsizing that was added recently (i.e. after the 2.2.0 release) of the indicator-plugin
<ochosi> elfy: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-01052014-014429pm.php
<ochosi> brainwash: doesn't happen with nm-applet, "only" with sound and power
<brainwash> right
<brainwash> and messages
<elfy> ochosi: mmm - odd - I'll ask people ealry this week 
<elfy> really off now
<ochosi> brainwash: i think we might need the latest git version of the indicator-plugin as well to fix that
<ochosi> ok, ttyl elfy 
<Unit193> brainwash: Netbook is good, VM has the flicker.
<ochosi> could be due to VM graphics drivers?
<ali1234> yesterday i loaded up gnome shell inside virtualbox... omg the flickering everywhere
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuVQYr5KzP8 <- flickering not caused by youtube. this is what it actually looked like
<ochosi> hey xnox 
<xnox> hi
<lderan> hi xnox :D
<ochosi> xnox: i don't want to bother you long or steal too much of your time, but first of all, thanks a lot in advance! your offer to help is very much appreciated!
<ochosi> whenever you have time for that, we could quickly go through what is needed the most
<elfy> ochosi: is there a simple reason why my alt tab is square and not rounded like you see here https://plus.google.com/106086509626546157534/posts/69DtYWSJjss
<jarnos> brainwash, where did you get recent light-locker from?
<ochosi> elfy: i guess you're not using Unit193's PPA (or if you do, it was superseded recently by the xfce4.12 PPA)
<elfy> ochosi: was sure I was 
<elfy> though I have the 4.12 as well - so that would be it I guess - thanks
<ochosi> no problem
<ochosi> you can force the version back to Unit's PPA
<ochosi> then the tabwin should look ok
<elfy> nope - that's ok - I'll just let updates come on through 
<ochosi> will maybe take a longer while for tabwin to land
<ochosi> or may not land at all in 14.04
<elfy> yep - that's fine
<elfy> just wondered if I'd done something :)
<ochosi> as to your complaint against whiskermenu, i'd suggest you file a bugreport on github
<elfy> ?
<elfy> what complaint?
<ochosi> well you said you lack the command-history or something
<ochosi> (although there is in fact recently used)
<ochosi> sry, don't remember well what you wanted :p
<knome> or was it Unit193 
<elfy> oic - not a complaint - just an observation - just not seeing a need for whisker menu on top of anything else without it
<elfy> recently used has nothing in it 
<brainwash> jarnos: daily PPA
<elfy> knome: no - it was me - unless it was both of us :)
<knome> oki
<ochosi> well you have to launch apps with whiskermenu for it to have something in it :)
<ochosi> works as expected here
<ochosi> you can even use that as startup-screen
<ochosi> i mean always display favorites or recently-used when you click the icon
<ochosi> quite useful i think
<elfy> ochosi: I only use Alt+F2 for things like root thunar/panel restarts etc - so the command history for me works
<ochosi> right
<elfy> different people - different uses :)
<ochosi> well anyway, we're deciding on what we think is good for most ppl
<ochosi> not necessarily ourselves
<brainwash> this would mean that we should go with libreoffice and get rid abibug.. abiword :)
<brainwash> and don't the ubuntu guys even plan to keep libreoffice up-to-date during the LTS cycle?
<Noskcaj10> brainwash, My issue with libreoffice is how much bigger is it, disk space, RAM, and CPU. Plus it's packaging is a mess, so we'd have to hope the ubuntu guys keep all the bugs fixed, since even a patch is more difficult
<brainwash> right, but it should be maintained quite well, on the other hand it takes ages to fix stuff in abiword
<Noskcaj10> yeah
<brainwash> is libreoffice-writer really a big CPU/RAM hog?
<Unit193> knome: No, I looked at whisker a little, and my first observation stands firm.
<ochosi> Noskcaj10: is the panel packaging quality-wise up to speed so that it could potentially be uploaded to ubuntu as is from the PPA?
<Unit193> ochosi: Close, not quite.
<brainwash> I've changed my mind and really enjoy whisker menu now, version 1.3 has a nasty bug, hopefully we can expect 1.3.1 soon :)
<ochosi> Unit193: do you think you could get it into the shape that'd be needed?
<brainwash> ah right, xfdesktop still shows the old tree app menu, is that OK or should whisker menu get integrated somehow?
<Unit193> s/you/Jackson/ ?  Sure, I don't see why not, just a little fix.
<Noskcaj10> ochosi, panel should be good, i'll have to check with a debdiff that the cheangelog is right though
<ochosi> brainwash: no, whisker can't get integrated there
<ochosi> brainwash: so that part will stay as it is
<ochosi> Unit193: well, you replied, so... ;)
<brainwash> mmh, inconsistency
<ochosi> brainwash: yeah, but okayish
<brainwash> bug 1254087
<ubottu> bug 1254087 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "[wishlist] Option to Use Whiskermenu as Desktop Menu" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1254087
<brainwash> already marked as wish list request
<ochosi> i don't think it's really possible
<ochosi> yeah, by whom?
<ochosi> he's not gottcode or a contributor to xfdesktop afaik
<ochosi> bbiab
<brainwash> and is xubu default settings even the right package?
<Unit193> Doesn't matter, working patches still welcome. ;)
<Unit193> brainwash: Not unless it already works.
<jarnos> brainwash, thx
<brainwash> maybe someone will work on a patch, when whisker menu gets more popular
<Noskcaj10> I think we should try and drop the default size of whiskermenu slightly, it takes a quarter of my screen
<ochosi> Noskcaj: quick question, what's the debian status of the 4.11 packages that we need?
<ochosi> e.g. libxfce4ui, garcon, xfwm4
<ochosi> or xfdesktop
<ochosi> or Unit193 ^
<Unit193> Need for?
<ochosi> 14.04
<Unit193> Yes, but in what way do you need something?  What task are you trying to fulfill.
<ochosi> well some say we should always sync from debian
<ochosi> so if stuff lands there, we'll benefit from it
<Unit193> libxfce4ui+garcon/git+xfce4-panel/git+xfce4-indicator-plugin for gtk3 indicators, libxfce4ui+xfwm+xfdesktop for seemless, etc.
<Unit193> I'd like to get the terminal in, Debian has it with all the fixes for Ubuntu.
<ochosi> mhm, that'd be nice
<brainwash_> that's basically the whole Xfce environment
<ochosi> well not the whole
<ochosi> Unit193: why is libxfce4ui needed for seemless?
<ochosi> but anyway, we need it
<brainwash_> new version of appfinder would be nice too
<brainwash_> including "Use GDbus for communication."
<Unit193> ochosi: xfwm buildlog: checking for libxfce4ui-1 >= 4.11.0... 4.11.
<Unit193> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/160584863/buildlog_ubuntu-saucy-i386.xfwm4_4.11.0%2Btabwin.git20131215.fa67b6a-1~13.10_UPLOADING.txt.gz if you don't believe me. :)
<jarnos> brainwash_, I tried recent light-locker with --lock-after-screensaver option. It breaks screen saver and displays the greeter. I think it should not display anything until user action stops screensaver.
<ochosi> jarnos: you seem to misunderstand that option
<ochosi> light-locker never displays screensavers
<ochosi> this is meant for time-based locking
<ochosi> (based on the setting of X11s screensaver extension, which saves us to have another ticker running for the timeout)
<ochosi> Unit193: i believe you, i must've forgotten about it :)
<jarnos> ochosi, but if user has set "xset s blank", screen should blank and not display any greeter.
<ochosi> well the greeter is the lockscreen
<ochosi> so if the screen is locked, you get forwarded to there
<ochosi> you can set the timeout though in the light-locker desktop file
<ochosi> so the screen blanks for e.g. 600secs and only then does the session get locked
<slickymaster> good night all
<ochosi> hey slickymaster 
<slickymaster> hi ochosi 
<ochosi> jjfrv8_, slickymaster: due to your fabulous work on the xfdesktop docs, there was a proposal now to create doc-versions (i.e. different docs for 4.10 and 4.12), the apps would dynamically find the correct docs for their versions
<ochosi> that would create less confusion for users and would make our/your job easier
<jarnos> ochosi, light-locker should behave so that it does not display anything, if triggered by the timeout. I tested it and it overrides even DPMS commands for monitor to Standby/Suspend/Off.
<slickymaster> ochosi, that is good news
<ochosi> slickymaster: yeah, i think so too
<ochosi> jarnos: light-locker doesn't control any of that. if you lock your session, you get to the greeter. end of story.
<ochosi> jarnos: however, i have implemented screen-blanking in the greeter now, so that when your screen locks, it remains blank
<slickymaster> ochosi, I planning on finishing eric's points this week
<ochosi> slickymaster: nice, thanks a bunch! it's much appreciated
<slickymaster> np
<ochosi> slickymaster: thing is, even if we get versions, it'll be just copy paste to create the new pages
<slickymaster> ochosi, yes, pretty much since its core it's already done
<ochosi> jarnos: problem is: going to the greeter opens a new VT, so basically a new X session. that means that all x settings from your running session are inaccessible (because they're user-specific, so the greeter can't access them, because your session is locked). all timers, incl. dpms get reset (so the screen comes back on)
<brainwash_> ochosi: so it would take another 10 min (default value) to blank the screen again?
<ochosi> brainwash_: yup
<brainwash_> should we reduce this value? xscreensaver blanks the screen after some seconds again, if you move the mouse and do not enter the password to unlock the session
<brainwash_> or if you type a wrong password
<brainwash_> 10 min to blank again appears to be quite long
<ochosi> well, the greeter does blank the screen initially on lock for that exact reason
<brainwash_> but only initially
<ochosi> fiddling with X variables from the greeter... i'm not sure i wanna go there
<brainwash_> lightdm should be able to do alter this timeout
<ochosi> it doesn't atm afaik
<brainwash_> wish list :)
<ochosi> and i'm not sure that they'd see it as a priority
<brainwash_> this also applies to the normal login greeter scenario
<ochosi> yes, but afaik they have some sort of powermanagement in unity greeter
<jarnos> ochosi, can you set the greeter to blank initially and after certain time of inactivity using xset or something in the new VT?
<brainwash_> changing the timeout sounds like a nice feature
<ochosi> jarnos: the initial blanking is already happening, if you use the greeter from our daily PPA you can test it
<ochosi> the other thing i haven't touched yet
<ochosi> feel free to investigate, i'm just as new to this as you
<jarnos> ochosi, I don't get the update from daily PPA (for saucy), yet.
<jarnos> ochosi, DPMS Standby event triggers the lock as well.
<brainwash_> jarnos: you should report your findings here https://github.com/the-cavalry/light-locker
<jarnos> ochosi, did you mean initial blanking is supposed to work in 1.0.0+2112+4? How do you make it blank?
<brainwash_> so we don't lose track of them
<brainwash_> jarnos: run "light-locker-command -" or "dm-tool lock"
<brainwash_> -l
<brainwash_> "light-locker-command -l"
<jarnos> brainwash_, it displays greeter, and does not blank. That is not initial blanking.
<brainwash_> works for me on two different systems
<brainwash_> wait a minute, you do use a recent version of lightdm-gtk-greeter, right?
<brainwash_> ideally 1.7.0
<brainwash_> the initial screen blanking has been modified slightly
<brainwash_> in the first version it did blank the screen twice, which unblanked the screen on some systems
<jarnos> brainwash_, lightdm-gtk-greeter 1.6.1-0ubuntu1, the next Xubuntu will have 1.6.1-0ubuntu2, right?
<jarnos> brainwash_, but I think that is not the cause. I am using multiple outputs.
<brainwash_> try https://launchpad.net/~lightdm-gtk-greeter-team/+archive/daily
<ochosi> jarnos: i'm also using more than one display, still works
<jarnos> I tested again with single output. Not working.
<brainwash_> the ppa will fix that
<jarnos> brainwash_, you mean it will give me more recent lightdm?
<jarnos> or lightdm-gtk-greeter?
<brainwash_> the latest version of gtk greeter
<brainwash_> including a fix for the initial screen blank 
<jarnos> brainwash_, soon?
<brainwash_> already does
<brainwash_> just install the new package and trigger lock screen
#xubuntu-devel 2014-12-29
<bluesabre> elfy: I'll be packaging a new xfce4-power-manager with light-locker integration and uploading it to xubuntu-staging this evening
<bluesabre> also, will be uploading packages of recently updated xfce components in the next few days
<bluesabre> in case you were interested
<bluesabre> bbl
<elfy> bluesabre: okey doke 
<elfy> bluesabre: what's the news on parole not mucking about with screen blank settings btw? 
<elfy> skellat: I assume you'll not be "Establish bug evaluation plan in concert with QA to prioritize problems: TODO"
<elfy> knome: where's the QA bits gone from the wiki? 
<brainwash> Unit193: did you look at bug 1393833 ?
<ubottu> bug 1393833 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Background with feh doesn't work" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1393833
<brainwash> which is or may be related to bug 1375893
<ubottu> bug 1375893 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "Black background to Try/Install Dialogue" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1375893
#xubuntu-devel 2014-12-30
<bluesabre> elfy: no progress on that yet... had some stuff come up over the weekend and out into this week
#xubuntu-devel 2014-12-31
<Unit193> abiword 3.0.0-8 was just uploaded, we're a couple behind.  Latest one fixes Debian #766845.
<ubottu> Debian bug 766845 in abiword "abiword: crash when using formatting eye dropper" [Normal,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/766845
<Unit193> !info abiword vivid
<ubottu> abiword (source: abiword): efficient, featureful word processor with collaboration. In component universe, is optional. Version 3.0.0-5ubuntu1 (vivid), package size 1097 kB, installed size 4277 kB
<Noskcaj> Unit193, also, upstream has a new point release. Should we package that or just merge debian's changes?
<Noskcaj> http://www.abisource.com/release-notes/3.0.1.phtml
#xubuntu-devel 2015-01-01
<Unit193> Noskcaj: Could do a QA upload.
<Unit193> Noskcaj: Ah, it just made it into experimental.
<bluesabre> hey everyone
<bluesabre> happy 2015!
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> same to you sean
 * bluesabre attempts to get something done today
<knome> nah, today is a no work day
<bluesabre> this is the one day I have before trying to move... if I can't get anything done today, it might be a bit
<knome> that happens
<knome> and good luck with the move
<bluesabre> thanks
<slickymaster> we're a standard to be follow -> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/+bug/1406972
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1406972 in ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "Official docs not mentioned in Ubuntu slideshow" [High,New]
<knome> the praise should obviously go to the docs lead
<slickymaster> nopes, it must obviously go to everyone who worked on them, in particulary to the former leads who so ingeniously made them what they're now
#xubuntu-devel 2015-01-02
<bluesabre> Unit193: poke
<bluesabre> any reason not to sync abiword, inxi ?
<bluesabre>   experimental:	abiword 3.0.1-1
<bluesabre>   unstable:	inxi 2.1.28-1
<bluesabre> figured if there were any issues, you'd be in the know :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Abiword had patches, not sure if they apply or have been upstreamed in the point release; and 2.2.16-0ubuntu1 is newer than 2.1.28-1.
<bluesabre> oh right
<bluesabre> was only looking at the last number
 * bluesabre facepalms
<Unit193> :D
<bluesabre> going to have a light-locker integration patch for xfpm shortly
<bluesabre> do you want to add it to the daily builds that go to -staging?
<Unit193> Patches are fun with daily builds, but why not?
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9657680/
<bluesabre> it should be fine for trusty/utopic as well, if the light-locker GSettings are not detected, xfpm will look and function exactly the same as it normally would
 * Unit193 hopes for the best.
 * bluesabre too
<bluesabre> it works for me, and ochosi has confirmed as well, so it should be a pretty safe one
<bluesabre> but our users are... talented
<Unit193> bluesabre: Ping elfy tomorrow.
<bluesabre> Unit193: will do
<Unit193> Great, and in case you didn't notice, I pushed.
<bluesabre> and then I'll be offline for possibly a few days
<Unit193> Awwh.
<bluesabre> but then I should be online reliably again since I won't be commuting 3 hours daily ;)
<Unit193> Hah, yeeeeah..
<bluesabre> doing a test build now to see if abiword from experimental builds with vivid, and going to bed since that will take some time
<bluesabre> back tomorrow briefly!
<bluesabre> hm, maybe +git-1? https://launchpadlibrarian.net/193869548/upload_844122_log.txt
<Unit193> Translation should hit soon. :P
<bluesabre> fair enough ;)
<bluesabre> nighty
<Unit193> G'night!
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, Were you going to get around to the xfce package updates or do you wan to do them? 
<Noskcaj> crap, he left
<Noskcaj> woops
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: if anything, I am planning to have them done by Monday morning
<bluesabre> elfy: the light-locker settings in xfce power manager setting integration will land in the next xfce4-power-manager daily build
<elfy> bluesabre: okey doke 
<knome> elfy, which qa stuff were you looking for? the new process stuff or something else?
<knome> if the process stuff.. it's processing
<bluesabre> Unit193: I've been playing with the new abiword, it looks like the ubuntu patches can be safely dropped... since I'll be offline for a few days, I'll wait to do the sync until I'm back in case if fails to build for some arch
<elfy> knome: I guess - there doesn't appear to be any of the old qa stuff on the pages at all now
<knome> elfy, we've dropped a lot of stuff at some point - but it's all revertable..
<knome> well, dropped/move tbh :)
<knome> s/tbh/tbe/
<elfy> moved where ;)
<knome> around
<elfy> anyway - not important 
<knome> ok
<knome> anyway, if you miss something, tell me what you are looking for and i'll dig it up for you :)
<elfy> just wondered is all - and at some point I guess someone will want to know where it all is 
<knome> yeah, i think we've pretty much replaced stuff that has been dropped
<knome> apart from the newest QA process stuff
<knome> which is pending as i said
<elfy> yep
<knome> i think we have also come a long way since a few years back
<knome> thanks for that go to you too :)
<elfy> :)
<knome> as somebody from senegal might say... coono du rÃ©Ã©r
<knome> meaning, nothing is in vain
<elfy> bbl
<knome> hf :)
<pleia2> so, I have all these xubuntu stickers, should I create a wiki page to start organizing thoughts on re: giveaways to QA people?
<elfy> thought we'd done all the thinking 
<pleia2> still need to write a blog post and decide how we select the people each month :)
<elfy> thought we'd done all the thinking about that too
<pleia2> oh good
<pleia2> did we document it anywhere so I can get to finalizing the post?
<pleia2> (or if the post is already written somewhere)
<elfy> it got as far as http://pad.ubuntu.com/QAIncentive
<elfy> then it all went quiet 
<pleia2> ah right, thanks
<elfy> well - wandering away now, have a good weekend
#xubuntu-devel 2015-01-03
<brainwash> Unit193: the latest ubiquity update includes your panel fix, but what about the black background? didn't you work on a fix for that too?
<Unit193> brainwash: Yes, but they seemingly never decided which approach to use, so I never did anything with it.
<brainwash> oh mmh
<brainwash> is bug 1393833 a dupe?
<ubottu> bug 1393833 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Background with feh doesn't work" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1393833
<brainwash> so the question is: will 15.04 also ship with the black background bug? :D
<brainwash> ubottu: is there a merge request or discussion somewhere?
<ubottu> brainwash: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<brainwash> I know :/
<brainwash> Unit193: ^
<Unit193> 1. I thought with feh installed there weren't problems.  2. It's not really a major bug IMO, but yes would be nice to fix.  I'm sure it'll be fixed before release.  3. No, all discussion was in this channel.
<brainwash> Unit193: it's not a major bug, right, but it's pretty annoying to have something like that not fixed yet :)
<brainwash> especially now that you've written some fix for it
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/H7Gj2SYxRJqM06ASsonc/
<brainwash> you should add it to the bug report
<brainwash> then we can ping xnox
<knome> i don't think it's minor, but it isn't exactly major either; it doesn't stop anyone from installing or using the system
<Unit193> So the question remains, use what we already have installed, xfdesktop; or install feh.
<knome> why wouldn't we use something we already have installed?
<Unit193> Because feh is smaller and doesn't have the one side effect.
<knome> which is?
<knome> and isn't it bigger in comparison anyway since it's extra?
<Unit193> You can right click on the desktop.
<knome> with feh?
<knome> or with xfdesktop?
#xubuntu-devel 2015-01-04
<Unit193> Second.
<Unit193> Have a test build, I think.
<Unit193> THe normal menu when you right click on the desktop, applications menu...
<knome> yep
<brainwash> so, the xfdesktop solution would require this http://wiki.xfce.org/howto/kiosk_mode
<brainwash> what about ubuntu studio and so on? everyone would need to make the same changes, right?
<OvenWerks> brainwash: from what I have gleened from the above, Studio would only have to add something to fix the bug. I am not sure being able to access the menu is all bad though...
<OvenWerks> I need to set this machine up so I can do dev work on it. The other one is/has lost it's drive.
<OvenWerks> However, If you would point to the merge/update you do to correct this on xubuntu, I will do Studio.
<ochosi> good day everyone
<andrzejr> hi ochosi
<ochosi> hey, how's it going?
<andrzejr> alright, how is the panel? any new bugs/fixes?
<andrzejr> was thinking about releasing it
<elfy> hi ochosi 
<ochosi> andrzejr: i think it's good. i would've wanted to fix the shading bug, but i was away over the holidays, so i haven't touched anything since you posted the bt
<andrzejr> ochosi, I've recently spotted 2 issues, not sure if with xubuntu 14.10 or xfce
<andrzejr> 1) Alt-F4 without focused window logs me out of my session
<andrzejr> 2) xfce compiled from scratch does not integrate with lightdm, had to install at least xfce4-session and dependencies from the repository. Any downstream patches?
<ochosi> not sure but 1) also happens here and i can't really say if it isn't by design
<ochosi> since you might have session-saving enabled you might actually want 1) to work as it does
<ochosi> and i'm not sure about 2), but it might be related to the prefix you compiled session with
<ochosi> haven't tried myself though
<Unit193> Only the xflock and http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/vivid/xfce4-session/vivid/view/head:/debian/patches/xubuntu_ignore-gdm-lang.patch patches for session.
<ochosi> andrzejr: ^
<Unit193> ochosi: Also, xfwm doesn't tile funky in vivid, just utopic.
 * Unit193 shrugs.
<ochosi> you mean corner-tiling doesn't work in vivid?
<Unit193> No, when opening windows.
<ochosi> what are you referring to exactly? (haven't touched my laptop in about two weeks)
<Unit193> elfy: How long do upgrades last on the tracker?
<Unit193> Seems they get cleared faster than last cycle.
<elfy> Unit193: I thought that they should renew daily - but doesn't appear to 
<ochosi> \o/ new panel release
<ochosi> thanks for the release andrzejr 
<ochosi> bbl
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/~unit193/+archive/ubuntu/xfce/+packages?field.name_filter=xfce4-panel full coverage, and for vivid: https://launchpad.net/~unit193/+archive/ubuntu/staging/+sourcepub/4647131/+listing-archive-extra - https://sigma.unit193.net/source/xfce4-panel_4.11.2-0ubuntu1.dsc
<ochosi> i guess that's for bluesabre ^
<Noskcaj> Unit193, Are you packaging any of todays releases or should i?
<brainwash> jjfrv8: re brightness issue after logout, can you maybe test a recent version of the intel gpu driver (xorg edgers ppa or similar)?
<brainwash> jjfrv8: I'm not sure if you want to mess with your system, but I guess the intel maintainer will ask the same think
<Noskcaj> andrzejr, Does thunar's appdata and polkit stuff need any new deps?
<andrzejr> Noskcaj, no idea
<Noskcaj> ok
<ochosi> Noskcaj: at least appdata shouldn't pull in anything new
<Noskcaj> It seemed to run fine on xubuntu anyway, and there wasn't anything in the git commit, so i've got a merge up with no dep changes
<Noskcaj> Did we want gtk2 or gtk3 for xfce4-taskmanager?
<ochosi> i'd stick with gtk2, there are no downsides to that
<ochosi> we can switch to gtk3 as soon as taskman is gtk3-only
<ochosi> which will happen with the next release
<Noskcaj> ok
<brainwash> andrzejr: can you review the patch for https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10652 ? not sure about the additional icon tweaks, but the main bug should be fixed at least
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10652 in desktop ""Open with 'default app'" in right click context menu with wrong icon" [Normal,New]
<brainwash> I think we should try to reduce the ubuntu delta and apply fixes upstream
<andrzejr> brainwash, there are some changes to new tab/window in the patch. Are they relevant to this bug?
<andrzejr> ditto for "create-folder"
<brainwash> andrzejr: no
<brainwash> "visual enhancements"
<andrzejr> I just noticed the last comment in bugzilla
<brainwash> oh :D
<andrzejr> "Patch does not have a valid e-mail address."
<andrzejr> (after: git am < patch)
<brainwash> andrzejr: it's not the mailbox patch format
<andrzejr> pushed
<andrzejr> any other downstream patches worth applying?
<andrzejr> I mentioned earlier today that manually compiled xfce4-session et al does not integrate with lightdm
<brainwash> thanks
<brainwash> I'm not sure, we got rid of the xfwm4 patches some time ago (now applied upstream)
<brainwash> did you install to /usr/local ?
<andrzejr> nope, /usr
<andrzejr> ./autogen.sh --enable-debug=minimum --enable-maintainer-mode --host=x86_64-linux-gnu --build=x86_64-linux-gnu --prefix=/usr --libdir=/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu --libexecdir=/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu
<brainwash> http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-session/tree/configure.ac.in#n135
<brainwash> did you search for session desktop file?
<brainwash> maybe it's not installed properly, so lightdm cannot pick it up
<ochosi> it's supposed to be installed in /usr/share/xsessions/xfce.desktop afaik
<brainwash> regarding thunar downstream patches: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/vivid/thunar/vivid/files/head:/debian/patches/
<andrzejr> xsession prefix is /usr, what does the xubuntu version use?
<andrzejr> seems like some of these patches are in 1.6.4
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> and should be /usr
<brainwash> andrzejr: yes, lets wait until 1.6.4 is packaged, then we can look at which patches are remaining
<Unit193> http://www.quickmeme.com/img/28/28f7f40a346a59ff11b731f814662fc9cb2baa0cf1e932275f9bb746bc2bde65.jpg
<ochosi> :]
<andrzejr> re: xfce4-session, there may be something else.
<andrzejr> I remember that starting startxfce4 manually (from xterm) was failing, I could start xfce4-session but then I was running into some permission problems
<andrzejr> Location of .desktop files looks correct
<ochosi> Unit193: wanna take a look why xfpm build failed in the staging ppa?
<Unit193> Oh, that was 4 days ago.  Thought you meant a new one.
<brainwash> andrzejr: the answer should be hidden somewhere here http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/vivid/xfce4-session/vivid/files/head:/debian/
<brainwash> just to make sure, are you able to start the Xfce session via lightdm and it fails, or is the menu entry for Xfce still missing?
<andrzejr> I can select either xfce or xubuntu session but after starting it I get afair empty screen. I could then start xterm from a console and run xfce4-session (but not startxfce4), which kind of worked except for things like audio permissions etc.
<brainwash> andrzejr: sounds strange, startxfce4 is a shell script, so it could be debugged easily I think
<brainwash> I'll compile and install xfce4-session tomorrow and report back
<brainwash> maybe I encounter the same problem
<andrzejr> brainwash, I don't have enough experience with it to spot the problem but will try to debug it again next weekend (unless you find the solution earlier)
<andrzejr> fyi, I was comppiling the whole xfce4 stack after uninstalling all xfce packages. The problem went away when I reinstalled xfce4-session + deps.
<brainwash> ok, it's not a common task to compile xfce4 from source and install it in ubuntu
<brainwash> maybe there is some tweaking needed to make it work
<brainwash> compile the whole thing from git I mean
<Unit193> Well, you won't get the user session at least...
#xubuntu-devel 2016-01-04
<Unit193> I'm likely bailing on the CC meeting.
<ochosi> evening all
<knome> hello ochosi 
<ochosi> hey knome 
<ochosi> in case anybody here is going to fosdem this year, i'll be there and happy to meet up! :)
<knome> i think kalikiana is going
<knome> so i could probably give the stuff i'm going to send you to him
<ochosi> you're meeting kalikiana?
<ochosi> (and yeah, i saw he has a talk)
<knome> i met him once already, should meet again before he leaves helsinki
<pleia2> no fosdem for me this year
<knome> when's the xubuntu summit, oh might leader ochosi 
 * knome bows in front of the mighty leader
<knome> ok, staging site is almost ready for development now
<Unit193> Secret virii and all?
<ochosi> pleia2: oh, had hoped you might make it again
<ochosi> knome: xubuntu summit - yeah, maybe we should try that for real at some point ;)
<knome> ochosi, i'm not kidding
<knome> except in the mighty leader aspect
<Unit193> Hah.
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> knome: anyway, time to sleep, feel free to slip your proposal underneath my door
<knome> :D
 * bluesabre looks forward to the xubuntu summit
<knome> ^
<knome> there it is
<knome> look!
<knome> look!
<knome> *rimshot*
<Unit193> bluesabre: I'd skip that one too. :P
 * bluesabre looks too late
#xubuntu-devel 2016-01-05
<knome> bluesabre, did you reply to pleia2 already re: server login?
<knome> bluesabre, and are you still receiving daily emails from the tracker?
<bluesabre> knome: didn't know I needed to reply about something
<bluesabre> knome: haven't seen an email in a while
<bluesabre> gotta run, bbl
<knome> bluesabre, ok, so i thought she asked you which ssh keys you wanted for the development server
<bluesabre> aha
<knome> bluesabre, once you get access to that, you can cooperate with pleia2 on the wiki installation
<bluesabre> I see now
<bluesabre> I'll take care of that when I get home
<knome> and i'll also look at the emails then, maybe there's something that's broken
<knome> good good
<bluesabre> blacklisted ip maybe?
<knome> i'll look at theming dokuwiki after it's set up..
 * knome shrugs
<knome> i didn't get those mails either
<knome> but they might've been going to spam
<knome> i didn't actively miss them
<knome> time to dash for me too
<knome> ttyl
<mhall119> flocculant: bluesabre: what MPs are you waiting on for the xubuntu-core images?
<pleia2> bluesabre: it wasn't an email :) see PM
<pleia2> I am going to be in the wrong part of the planet for our CC check in
<pleia2> it will be at 4AM o_O
<pleia2> I may be awake because jetlag, but I hope to be adjusted by then
<genii> Maybe get a wake-up call
<pleia2> hah, no, if I'm sleeping I want to sleep :)
<knome> uh oh, the internets is slow
<knome> or maybe the dns servers are dead
<knome> yeah, looks like that's the problem
<pleia2> all seems ok to me
<knome> le sigh
<knome> no, my dns servers
<pleia2> ah :)
<knome> yep, that's it...
<zeioth> someone is developing something similar to "gnome-contro-center wacom" for xubuntu right now?
<flocculant> not that I know of 
<zeioth> ok thank you, I'm going to research it
<flocculant> https://github.com/achadwick/gsdwacom4xfce
<flocculant> zeioth: ^^
<bluesabre> mhall119: https://code.launchpad.net/~unit193/ubuntu-cdimage/xubuntu-core/+merge/268167 https://code.launchpad.net/~unit193/livecd-rootfs/xubuntu-core/+merge/267880 and https://code.launchpad.net/~unit193/debian-cd/xubuntu-core/+merge/267879
<mhall119> thanks bluesabre, do you know if anybody is currently handling them?
<bluesabre> mhall119: I don't think anybody is currently handling them
<knome> aiui, they are on slangasek's "queue"
<mhall119> ok, I'll ping him about them
#xubuntu-devel 2016-01-06
<knome> pleia2, can you try logging in to staging.xubuntu.org?
<knome> actually, looks like this shouldn't work right nwo
<knome> hold..
<knome> oh meh!
<knome> i need to write a plugin myself
 * knome sighs
<knome> pleia2, should work now
<knome> ...should
<knome> bbl
<pleia2> does not
<pleia2> oh, had to click my membership in the xubuntu website team, then it works
<Unit193> internet-networks.xml:167: element menuchoice: validity error : Element menuchoice content does not follow the DTD, expecting (shortcut? , (gui$
<Unit193> Document ru/index.xml does not validate
<ochosi> evening all
<krytarik> knome, slickymaster: Reg. that â , a dropped '</menuchoice>' here: https://translations.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs/xenial/+pots/user-docs/ru/325/+translate
<krytarik> And evening, ochosi.
<slickymaster> fixed krytarik 
<slickymaster> thanks for spotting it
<slickymaster> and Unit193, thanks to you, also
<krytarik> slickymaster: Thanks to you as well. :P
<flocculant> knome pleia2 - whoever see's first :) what's the status on the virtual thingy and the cont docs landing? 
<flocculant> hi krytarik :)
<krytarik> Hi flocculant.
<pleia2> flocculant: the server?
<flocculant> yea - the one you were setting up at some point 
<pleia2> flocculant: it's running and static.o.o and docs.o.o were moved to it yesterday
<pleia2> lol .o.o
<pleia2> I meant x.o
<pleia2> too much openstack :(
<flocculant> ha ha 
<pleia2> do we need new contributor docs up?
<pleia2> http://docs.xubuntu.org/contributors/ has been up for a while now
<flocculant> oh right - didn't know that
<pleia2> there, all your problems solved \o/
 * pleia2 collects her gold star
<flocculant> nice - I really need to clean up the x.org/contribute/qa stuff 
<flocculant> I can be pointing people at that new stuff now :)
<pleia2> :)
 * flocculant sends pleia2 a much more useful chocolate cookie :)
<pleia2> omnomnom
<flocculant> bumped the irc package testing mail(s) 
<flocculant> see if we get some more takers, not going to run anything for 1 or 2 people
<flocculant> and I immediately see someone respond on the poll after I bumped it :D
<flocculant> bluesabre: do you think we should let users know that demise of vervet is imminent? 
<flocculant> and indeed anyone else :)
<flocculant> wb knome :)
<knome> ta flocculant 
<flocculant> bluesabre: one last thing (for the moment) we'd said we would possibly do a2 this cycle, that's a couple of weeks away - still think it's worth it? 
<flocculant> ochosi: ^^
<flocculant> and indeed anyone else :)
<ochosi> humm, i don't have a strong opinion on this
<flocculant> k - not all that sure I do to be honest :) 
<knome> i don't think there has been much changes since 15.10, so i'm wondering how useful it would be
<flocculant> well - not as much as if I was asking about a beta :)
<ochosi> do you see any reason to go for a2?
<ochosi> knome: yeah, that was my thought
<flocculant> not specifically - other than it tests our bits with all the other newer stuff 
<flocculant> but as is normal - not getting anything horrid here with it all 
<knome> participating in a2 also means we will be pushing out an ISO which is more or less official, and then more or less people will go install it because it's the newest new and hottest hot
<flocculant> but then again if we take "i don't think there has been much changes since 15.10, so i'm wondering how useful it would be" as a starting point - are we expecting anything to change much after that ? 
<knome> whether that is good or bad is left for us to decide
<flocculant> yea 
<knome> flocculant, i don't think so
<knome> b1's are generally slightly more stable than alphas
<flocculant> I've been thinking about that point lately too 
<flocculant> might have been the case 4 or so cycles ago
<knome> b1 vs. alpha?
<knome> haven't you noticed much difference lately?
<flocculant> nowadays it seems that for the most part - what you can install a week into the cycle is more stable than it was way back 
<knome> heh :)
<knome> well that's a good thing
<knome> i hope most of the critical bugs are fixed for betas though
<flocculant> knome: I don't notice much difference between week 1 and week 26 now :)
<flocculant> and yes - a good thing for sure
<knome> not necessarily affecting everybody
<knome> but things like data loss
<knome> and other nastiness
<flocculant> yea - not noticed anything - and I would shout ;)
<knome> yep
<flocculant> I thiink the only thing causing issues of any sort is thunar - but not data loss issues, just funky behaviour 
<knome> yeah
<flocculant> and that's the same as wily cycle 
<knome> the crashes in 15.10 are annoying
<knome> bluesabre, ^^ PPPPPP-PING!
<flocculant> I don't see those here 
<knome> i do, unfortunately :(
<pleia2> me neither
<knome> on the desktop at least
<flocculant> well yea - I mean in xx 
<knome> oh
<knome> well i'm on wily
<knome> pleia2, you on wily too?
<flocculant> I was seeing things in wily from time to time
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> flocculant, ok...
<pleia2> all my systems on wily now
<pleia2> I turned off apport though
<knome> same
<pleia2> so maybe things I don't care about crash and I don't know :)
<flocculant> shouldn't be turned on in wily 
<knome> pleia2, the thunar crashes are like
<knome> pleia2, rename a file
<pleia2> oh, I don't use thunar
<flocculant> :)
<knome> pleia2, all thunar windows disappear
<pleia2> neat
<flocculant> knome: I'll try and get time tomorrow to clean up the x.org/cont/qa page a bit now that the other is live
<knome> flocculant, it's not exactly linked to from anywhere, but works for me
<knome> i mean, feel free to link - that is likely the final url anyway
<flocculant> yea realise that, but the newer one changed a bit so I don't really want there to be 2 conflicting versions of things
<flocculant> not massively conflicting I add :)
<knome> :)
<ochosi> knome: yeah, that's a sorta known issue by now
<ochosi> something in gvfs changed, i don't remember what exactly
<knome> yep
<ochosi> and i'm not sure anymore whether there was a fix in the pipe for that
<knome> which is why i pinged bluesabre ;)
<ochosi> or whether things fix themselves with a gvfs update
<knome> yeah
#xubuntu-devel 2016-01-07
<bluesabre> evening all
<bluesabre> knome: yes, annoying bug, hard to debug, and gvfs related iirc
<bluesabre> flocculant: yes, would be good to announce the end of vivid
<bluesabre> poor monkey
<Unit193> Ubuntu 15.04 "Vivid Vervet" 16
<bluesabre> flocculant: a2 might be worthwhile if I can get some releases/uploads done, but for now, not so much
<Unit193> bluesabre: You may need to bump the version on your parole daily, no?
 * bluesabre is scared to see what the number is at there
<Unit193> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/232848351/buildlog_ubuntu-xenial-amd64.xfce4-power-manager_1.4.4+git-0~1974~ubuntu16.04.1_BUILDING.txt.gz
<flocculant> bluesabre: re a2 - ok, leave that final decision to you then, we'll be wanting to know w/c 18th Jan 
<knome> pleia2, i'm thinking we could move to using svg artwork for the website. what do you think?
<pleia2> knome: you know better than I whether all (or majority of) the browsers would support it
<knome> pleia2, it means around 2-2.5% of users won't see the artwork at all or as planned
<knome> http://caniuse.com/#feat=svg
<pleia2> ok
<pleia2> what's the benefit?
<knome> first, file size and leanness
<pleia2> aren't those the same thing? ;)
<knome> second, it's time to stop doing legacy things because some booooring old browsers do not support them
<pleia2> story of your life, I'm sure
<knome> and of course, svg is vector
<knome> this affects the "featured" images the most
<pleia2> are we planning on doing things where scaling matters?
<Unit193> Hrm, even 8 doesn't support it?  Still likely acceptable enough.
<knome> pleia2, what i just said
<pleia2> ok
<knome> and one thing we could support *better* is big resolutions
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> think: retina/ultrahd
<pleia2> sounds good to me
<knome> ok, i'll plan the required changes for the next deploy
<knome> basically only the logo svg is something we need to change
<knome> the rest come from wordpress already
<knome> so it's just a matter of switching
<pleia2> "Effective January 12, 2016, Internet Explorer 8 will no longer be supported on any version of Windows,"
 * pleia2 looks at the calendar
<knome> yep, but more people are still using it than IE9 or IE10 individually
<pleia2> ok, well, if we get too many complaints, we'll just tell them not to use an EOL browser :P
<knome> heh
<pleia2> this is a nice site, thanks
<knome> i don't think this will be an issue
<knome> np :P
 * genii sips
<knome> aahhh, that was easier than i thought
<knome> eg. no extra fuzzing
<knome> now if wordpress only showed previews for svg images in the media manager :)
<knome> will look at that later (probably today), now off for some food shopping
<knome> pleia2, umm, should mod_rewrite work on the dev server?
<pleia2> knome: look in /etc/apache2/mods-enabled directory
<pleia2> I didn't set it up, don't remember if it's default or not
<knome> apparently not
<pleia2> can fix post current meeting if needed
<pleia2> k
<knome> wfm
<Unit193> Is there a link to things yet?
<knome> staging.xubuntu.org
<knome> static.xubuntu.org is served from that server
<knome> as is tracker.xubuntu.org
<knome> and docs.xubuntu.org
<knome> soon wiki.xubuntu.org
<Unit193> Ah yes, that last one.
<knome> pleia2, ping me when you are around
<pleia2> knome: enabled rewrite
<pleia2> I still need to go through the wiki doc to see what I need to enable
<knome> thanks
<knome> or you can give $somebody sudo rights and get on with it :)
<pleia2> yeah, we haven't quite discussed who would help me admin the machine
<pleia2> should do :)
<knome> i'm available for that, but we obviously should talk about how we want to spread the maintaining
<pleia2> but you're a web dev, and web devs spend all day chmod 777 everything
 * pleia2 hides
<Unit193> Hahah. :D
<knome> sure...
<knome> i've done my silly things for life already
<pleia2> oh ok
<pleia2> Adding user knome to group sudo
<knome> thanks
<knome> now if i only knew my password!
<pleia2> haha
<Unit193> pleia2: For ssh, pass auth enabled?
<pleia2> Unit193: for now, but I set everyone up with ssh keys so no one is using them
<Unit193> Nice.
<knome> feel free to shut down pass auth
<knome> i won't want to use it anyway
<pleia2> k
<pleia2> anyway, off now
<pleia2> still allow root login, but only from my home IP (for backups)
<knome> hf!
<pleia2> I meant, the auth is off ;)
<pleia2> not me
<knome> oh
<knome> haha
<Unit193> Might be the only one that's not off mentally...
<pleia2> we're all mad here
<knome> yep!
<knome> o/
<knome> helloooo
<bluesabre> evening all
<bluesabre> knome: I'd feel bad if our site handled retina/ultrahd and xfce still did not :D
<knome> bluesabre, boo hoo! :)
<knome> bluesabre, any specific dokuwiki conf you are fond od?
<knome> *of
<bluesabre> knome: if it works, that's fine by me
<knome> hah
<sidi> A question for packagers
<sidi> say xubuntu-desktop depends on Foo.
<sidi> and then the package is updated, and the updated package no longer depends on Foo
<knome> xubuntu-desktop depends on Foo.
<sidi> will Foo be automatically purged on the next apt-get upgrade?
<knome> there, i said it!!
 * sidi whips knome with a power cord
 * sidi keeps whipping heinously
<bluesabre> sidi: nope
<sidi> oh wait, this is not -offtopic
<bluesabre> it will get purged with autoremove though
<sidi> bluesabre, ok, so if I really wanted to make sure users dont have Foo, I should tell them to apt-get autoremove as well
<sidi> thanks!
<bluesabre> or use some combination of Conflict or Breaks to force it away... but don't do that
<sidi> bluesabre, tell me more? :p
<sidi> bluesabre, anyway i can tell my participants to remove that package. just was curious if it'd be automatic or not. no biggy if the new meta package is installed with the old package still there, i'm only cleaning up
<bluesabre> sidi: yeah, that should be fine
<bluesabre> install xubuntu 6.06, then upgrade each release up and have 5 music players
#xubuntu-devel 2016-01-08
<sidi> that seems like a super mega painful way of installing music players man
<bluesabre> painful, but effective ;)
<knome> this is still a bit blown out, but
<knome> http://wiki.xubuntu.org/
<bluesabre> knome: yay!
<genii> Looks alittle spartan but nice
<knome> you would totally not figure out i'm thinking i might integrate it with the tracker.
<bluesabre> whaaaaaaaaaa
<bluesabre> x.x
<knome> wut?
<knome> not liking it? :P
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> in other news, https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~catfish-search/catfish-search/trunk/revision/430
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> heh, yay
<knome> http://wiki.xubuntu.org/doku.php?id=marketing:start
<knome> hacky-hack
<knome> (see the cool title)
<knome> (and compare to the path in the URL)
<knome> (or the file path in the page footer)
<bluesabre> faaaaancy
<Unit193> You're going to want to restrict those registrations...
<knome> also, http://wiki.xubuntu.org/doku.php?id=marketing:licenses
<knome> Unit193, likely,.
<knome> anybody want to create an account before i do so? :P
<knome> i'm off to bed
<knome> will let you register and stuff
<knome> ttyl and good night!
<bluesabre> nighty knome
<bluesabre> it's okay, looks like the email did not send, or @ubuntu.com redirect failed
<flocculant> knome: gvfs updates yesterday - thunar is now reverting to type and crashing here :D
<knome> flocculant, hooray
<knome> btw, is mousepad crashing for you too?
<knome> bluesabre, re: email, talking to me?
<bluesabre> flocculant: woohoo
<bluesabre> knome: yes, registered with bluesabre@ubuntu, didn't get an email... somebody want to send me a test email?
<Akxwi-dave> to blusabre@ubuntu.com ?   :-)
<knome> bluesabre, done
<Akxwi-dave> and morning bluesabre 
<knome> for me, the dokuwiki mail went straight to spam
<Akxwi-dave> and knome 
<knome> hey Akxwi-dave :)
<knome> bluesabre, was from email "www-data@xubuntu-dev"
<knome> bluesabre, that might not ringing the trust bells for your email provider :P
<bluesabre> knome: doesn't seem to be in my spam or anything
<knome> weird
<knome> let me do the following
<knome> remove your account
<knome> change the from to something sensible
<knome> then you can register again
<bluesabre> k
<knome> bluesabre, so i also sent you a regular email
<knome> and the above is done, feel free to re-register
<bluesabre> knome: yes, responded to it
<knome> should be noreply@wiki.xubuntu.org now
<knome> oh yes
<bluesabre> still not seeing one
<bluesabre> maybe I should try my non ubuntu one
<bluesabre> ok, using my gmail worked
<bluesabre> weird
<knome> let me remove 1 and then rename 2 to 1
<knome> ok?
<knome> or actually
<knome> do we need the last modified date to be visible on the wiki at all times?
<knome> or tbe, do we want to?
<knome> or is it mostly moot, and we trust that people know how to look at the history
<bluesabre> I don't think it's bad to display
<bluesabre> makes it clear when something has not been updated
<knome> right
<knome> i'll figure out a place for it then
<flocculant> knome: mousepad hasn't been crashing no - but I'm using whatever ppa one we have currently ofc 
<knome> mm
<flocculant> and no way to register at wiki.xubuntu.org here
<knome> you mean there is no registration link?
<flocculant> nope
<knome> lies!
<flocculant> there was this morning - but at 6 am not something I was going to be doing ... 
<knome> =;)
<knome> O;) too
<knome> or, refresh
<flocculant> http://i.imgur.com/kN85QPC.png
<knome> refresh
<flocculant> oh it turned up now on the other side of the page ... 
<knome> ;)
<knome> cleaning up as i go...
<flocculant> not very quick sending e-mail is it 
<knome> it is
<knome> but it's probably in your poop folder
<knome> wait a second
<flocculant> nope - they turn up quick too :)
<knome> ok, so:
<knome> currently, anybody can read and edit
<knome> everybody in @team (eg. the xubuntu team) can do anything
<knome> also, there is a namespace team:*
<bluesabre> flocculant: are you using your ubuntu email?
<bluesabre> ubuntu for me never sent, gmail was instant
<knome> in which team members can do everything, but others can't do anything
<knome> bluesabre, he doesn't
<knome> ;)
<bluesabre> k
<flocculant> bluesabre: I don't have one of those - only ubuntu members do ;)
<bluesabre> flocculant: gotcha
<knome> ok, another thing
<knome> the reason why we are seeing those nice titles is because i've set "use first heading as title" on
<knome> basically, it does what it says it does
<knome> but i'm also hiding all <h5> elements
<knome> so you can do == Any title ==
<knome> and it doesn't show up in the page
<knome> but it's used as the title if it's the first heading
<flocculant> knome: new qa page for x.org drafted at https://xubuntu.org/?p=3670&preview=true
<knome> flocculant, will look today, ta
<flocculant> knome: yep - no mad rush - and I'm not too concerned what changes you make as long as you don't add urls, once you're ok just change it :)
<knome> ok, will do
<knome> flocculant, reviewed, changed some formatting (mostly adding <strong> and removed some low-level headings) and pushed to production
<knome> looks good now, great work!
<flocculant> knome: cheers 
<flocculant> I'll mail the list and let those interested in qa know about the docs page soon :)
<akxwi-dave> ooohh more emails to read.. :-)
<knome> flocculant, i haven't copied the qa stuff from the old ubuntu wiki over to the xubuntu wiki yet, but i will be doing that soon
<knome> flocculant, fwiw, there are few syntax differences between moinmoin and dokuwiki, but they are minor once converted
<knome> flocculant, i've tried to remove stuff we don't need from http://wiki.xubuntu.org/wiki/syntax thus making it easier to read
<flocculant> ack
<flocculant> hey akxwi-dave didn't know you were about - http://docs.xubuntu.org/contributors/qa-team.html is live now, the x.org/cont/qa stuff is basic with a pointer to the new stuff
<flocculant> knome: re the new wiki - I assume we're not using that for 'everything' eg roadmap specs ? and the like
<flocculant> talking of the like - what are we actually going to do about 'team can do posts about what they use instead of gmb' ?
<knome> flocculant, for the first question, the goal is to use the new wiki for everything, but i'm not sure if we will move all the archive over yet
<flocculant> mmm
<knome> flocculant, for the latter, i'll need to set that up, and as long as i have time, we'll do that
<flocculant> not completely sold on that then 
<knome> oh?
<akxwi-dave> hi flocculant , that looks really nice
<flocculant> knome: yea - things that are effectively ephemeral like roadmap - I'd say current loc is best 
<knome> well practically we don't HAVE a roadmap for xenial in the wiki
<knome> it's just the tracker now
<flocculant> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/W/DefaultMediaPlayer for instance 
<flocculant> 'our' wiki is the wrong place imo - let canonical hold dead stuff :)
<knome> well as i said, i don't know about moving the archive
<flocculant> inxi - that's be better on our wiki than the x.org
<knome> what's the difference between our wiki and x.org? ;)
<flocculant> knome: yea ... but y,z , 1,2,3 cycle ... 
 * knome shrugs
<knome> the new wiki is FASTER
<flocculant> knome: oh my ... 
<knome> and we have total control over it
<flocculant> right 
<knome> literally
<knome> no canonical involced
<knome> *involved
<knome> so...
<knome> yeah
<flocculant> just let me run for a moment ;)
<knome> there are many benefits for using it, even for temporary/short-lived stuff
<flocculant> I don't see that 
<knome> see what? :D
<flocculant> what is the benefit in having something like a spec lying dead on our wiki for years? 
<knome> you can ask pleia2 about why archiving is important
<flocculant> I see a benefit in having things like the x.org inxi on our wiki
<flocculant> oh nvm - whatever
<knome> i mean, i don't mind archiving myself
<knome> sometimes i think it's more useful to just delete
<knome> but specs that actually happened are useful IMO at least
<flocculant> really - not interested that much - just think that we should keep our wiki for useful things
<knome> specs that were just babble... not so much
<flocculant> being able to see what happened 10 years ago - really who cares ? 
<knome> it serves as a refresher as to why things were done how they were
<knome> that might be useful when we are figuring out something else later
<flocculant> yea - see half a dozen lines up 
<knome> sure, some specs are more useful than others...
<knome> but seriously, pleia2 is the archiving zealot here;)
<flocculant> yea I understand
<knome> our irc channel is logged, our mailing list is logged
<knome> why the specifications wouldn't?
<flocculant> I just think that just because we CAN do something with OUR wiki doesn't mean we should - there is a perfectly useful archiving medium available - the current wiki 
<flocculant> oh I give up 
<flocculant> don't care enough to worry - hardly likely to be something I bother with anyway
<knome> what's the difference if we create the new spec in the new or old wiki?
<knome> it's more work to remove it than to leave it
<knome> and there's no damage being done if it's available even if nobody uses it
<flocculant> why fill our one up wioth dead stuff? what do we gain by changing it? 
<knome> i said i don't know about existing stuff
<knome> but new stuff is different
<flocculant> no it isn't
<knome> if we write new specs, then it makes sense to have them in the same place as all other information
<knome> or do you rather use 6 tools than one?
<flocculant> *shrug* you and pleia2 decide what we should do 
<knome> my shoulder hurts from shrugging so i won't shrug
<flocculant> make sure the xpl listens to all sides of the argument before he decides though please
<knome> ochosi, ping ^, if you want to bother reading the backlog
<flocculant> I'll be back tomorrow anyway
<knome> have a nice evening :)
<pleia2> I like history, it's nice to be able to point new people to why and when we made a decision long ago
<pleia2> and I don't see what it hurts to keep things around
<pleia2> also nice to point to people that we've had a discussion before (like the DefaultMediaPlayer), good historical information'
<pleia2> maybe not current, but when someone comes along and says "you should totally use $x" we can look back at why we didn't before, and if it has the features we need now
<ochosi> evening all
<ochosi> humm, so much backlog
<ochosi> well anyway, starting to read..
<ochosi> alright, so whenever one of you guys is around, feel free to ping me
<ochosi> personally i think it's a good thing to port over the things we consider valuable from the old wiki, but yeah, i wouldn't bother removing it from there
<ochosi> apart from having a big link on the frontpage of the old wiki maybe, saying that this is just "a fridge" or something and that the cool kids are someplace else now
<ochosi> humm, gotta admit that it sucks a bit that our shimmer-themes package which was once a source for various artwork will likely be cut down to just greybird in 16.04...
<ochosi> but yeah, gtk theme maintenance wears people out
<flocculant> pleia2: I've no problem with keeping things about - but given that things like specs are ephemeral or even completely ignored during a cycle - why fill up a clean pristine wiki that we can use to give people real and useful information with it - why not just carry on putting that stuff on canonical's servers
<flocculant> that's the main issue imo - other than that - it's wiki, I have no real interest, I hate writing that stuff in various arcane syntax's :)
<pleia2> flocculant: I don't really care where it's kept, as long as we don't delete it forever
<flocculant> pleia2: welcome to the impending ice age where no-one cares about that stuff :p
<pleia2> flocculant: but it is worth noting, I don't share your opinion about the problem with filling up a clean pristine wiki, what exactly are we "filling up"? We have plenty of space, etc etc
<flocculant> personally if we've got a server we can use - an irc bouncer that team can use would be more useful imo :)
<pleia2> it really is helpful for new contributors to have access to history, I know I like it when I join a project, helps me feel like I can figure out things myself without asking why we do everything all the time
<pleia2> I don't really see how irc bouncers and wikis impact each other
<flocculant> pleia2: well  - personally I wouldn't be that worried about something that happened 20 years ago being in one place, if it's on the net somewhere it's on the net
<pleia2> we're not talking 20 years :) so far maybe 5
<flocculant> and unless there's going to be some sort of usable index on 'our' wiki - in time it will be as much a pita as the ubuntu ones 
<pleia2> that wiki link you shared earlier was only a few months old
<flocculant> pleia2: yea ofc - because it was just an example, forget the date of it - why would anyone want to know in 10 years that in 6 months of 1 year people thought about doing something - then didn't ? 
<flocculant> history is great - but pointless history is pointless :) 
<ochosi> pleia2: +1
<pleia2> flocculant: when we hit 10 years, we can talk about this again :)
<flocculant> yea 
<flocculant> of course
<ochosi> i think this is pretty much a non-issue
<flocculant> ochosi: to a certain extent it is yes
<ochosi> first of all it's awesome that we have our own wiki and that it is under our control (finally). so go us! (or knome and pleia2)
<flocculant> but can anyone anywhere at anytime write a spec for Xubuntu - or do they have to come and ask if they can? 
<ochosi> wait, that seems like a different subject
<flocculant> ochosi: yea - totally agree, love that we have our space
<ochosi> and yes, ofc everyone can write specs, if they want to share those with us they *should* come here and talk about it
<flocculant> not really - just an extrapolation of where we are 
<ochosi> that was always the same
<flocculant> ochosi: no - anyone can edit an ubuntu wiki page if they have sso or whatver
<ochosi> yeah, if they have sso, fine
<flocculant> doesn't mean we take any notice of it 
<ochosi> still, if they don't talk to us and just add a page/spec to the wiki that's not very useful
<flocculant> ok
<flocculant> whatever, nvm 
<ochosi> so personally i don't think that dramatically increases the threshold of contributing (if that's what you're aiming at)
<flocculant> someone coming here cap in hand saying can I do this isn't a dramtic increase? 
<flocculant> I think you'll find that it is ;)
<flocculant> but whatever 
<flocculant> really back tomorrow :)
<knome> anybody can still come and write a spec in the xubuntu wiki
<ochosi> ok, ttyl
<knome> only some pages are blocked from non-team "contributions"
<knome> and of course i want to make sure we have a useful index for the wiki
<knome> http://wiki.xubuntu.org/?do=index is already quite good, even if no "extra work" was done to make it happen
<knome> ochosi, i see you don't have an account yet
<ochosi> yeah, just came in a few mins ago ;)
<ochosi> but that was on my agenda for tonight
<knome> ochosi, maybe you should create one so i could appoint you to the @team team
<knome> or you can tell which email you like and i can do that for you
<ochosi> done
<ochosi> nono, you're already doing a lot with this web setup
<ochosi> really kudos on that!
<knome> ok, you're now in the @team team
 * knome bows
<knome> and np
<knome> i want this myself too...
<knome> so a short recap:
<ochosi> cool cool
<knome> there is a team: namespace
<knome> that is only readable by the team
<knome> i don't know what we're using it for (yet), but i'm sure there is need at some point, so i've went ahead and set it up already
<knome> the start page and the contact page are also protected from non-team member edits
<knome> also, i don't mind maintainin the wiki and making sure the launch is smooth, but at some point, we might want somebody else to be an admin as well - if i'm away for whatever reason etc.
<ochosi> sure, that all makes perfect sense
<knome> my knee jerk reaction is bluesabre, because he's administrating other dokuwiki wikis and knows a bit or two about the admin
<ochosi> yeah
<knome> but it's a simple web UI trigger, so we don't need to do that now
<ochosi> if he's fine with it, i'm fine with it
<knome> or in other words it doesn't require careful planning
<knome> just do it when we've decided
<ochosi> fwiw, that thunar/gvfs rename bug/crash doesn't seem to be there in xenial (just tested)
<knome> ok, nice
<knome> what about the mousepad one?
<ochosi> hmm, which one was that?
<knome> it crashes randomly
<knome> i think it's usually related to moving tabs from another window to other
<ochosi> aha
<ochosi> hadn't noticed
<knome> but i'm not completely sure because i haven't logged it too much
<ochosi> doesn't sound like something i can reproduce quickly and reliably
<ochosi> i'll focus on other stuff for starters
<knome> one thing it also could have to do with is that i often have many files over sshfs open
<ochosi> well, i noticed that having around 10+ mousepad instances open makes it crash
<ochosi> (in wily)
<knome> yeah...
<knome> today i had a weird crash
<knome> apparently mousepad started writing to HDD a lot
<knome> because it made a lot of noise
<knome> then it crashed
<ochosi> but yeah, for the moment i'd prefer to focus on greybird bugs
<knome> but not like disappeared, i had the usual xfce dialog saying it's not responding
<ochosi> cause mousepad can be fixed by somebody else, but i presume greybird will remain my responsibility
<knome> usually the windows just disappear
<knome> ala thunar
<knome> yeah, probably so
<knome> i'll try to get some more useful information out of the bug before i whine about it the next time
<knome> now,
<knome> bbiab/bbl
<flocculant> knome: I rarely have more than a couple of 'pad's or 'pad and tabs at one time - I'll see if I can reproduce with more 
<ochosi> flocculant: since you're one of the folks using xenial the most, please let me know when you see visual oddities
<ochosi> i gotta fix up greybird for it
<flocculant> knome pleia2 - and just for the record, and history, I do appreciate the new stuff we have going :)
<ochosi> just started with a first commit fixing the sidebars in the open file dialog (e.g. in evince)
<flocculant> ochosi: yep - I know, only oddity I know of right now is an issue with icon/icon+text/text in something 
<ochosi> a-ha?
<flocculant> and if people use ubuntu fonts it all goes wrong
<ochosi> got an example?
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> not sure that is greybird's fault
<ochosi> but yeah, still let me know
<flocculant> hang on - bug reported on tracker 
<flocculant> font thing is a font thing - not us
<flocculant> bug 1510540
<ubottu> bug 1510540 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "Text next to icons doesn't work on GTK themes" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1510540
<flocculant> the mousepad search higlight one is really a pain for someone not young like you lot :D
<flocculant> ochosi: generally I'm not seeing anything stand out eww theme wise, but I'm also trying to get fonts etc to look nice with a new monitor - not easy seemingly
<ochosi> ok, i'll take a look at that one
<ochosi> mousepad search highlight is knome's department (or actually last i remember it was mousepad not really applying all highlight classes or something)
<flocculant> ochosi: let me just double check that after a bunch of updates 
<flocculant> ochosi: yea - but arty so I told you :)
<ochosi> example of a visual glitch:
<ochosi> catfish's location selector combobox has a double border
<ochosi> and i have no clue as to why
<flocculant> rounded in square ?
<knome> mousepad doesn't "get" all syntax
<knome> and i still have the highlight issue on my TODO
<flocculant> knome: yep - pretty important imo, people with older hardware more likely to be older with old eyes :)
<knome> not disagreeing with that
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> ochosi: http://i.imgur.com/f50lRX6.png and http://i.imgur.com/0pYMVOS.png
<flocculant> ochosi: and re numix, if no-one can maintain that, then imo we should drop it for lts 
<knome> text under icons looks okay to me
<flocculant> just so people know I do actually check the backlog in here :D
<knome> the dialog padding doesn't :X
<ochosi> yeah, that dialog is terrible
<flocculant> text under is fine - text next is completely transparent ... 
<ochosi> flocculant: yeah, i'd give satya some time, but ultimately we might have to drop it
<ochosi> re: text next, doesn't it work in all apps?
<ochosi> maybe some just don't implement toolbars correctly/fully
<flocculant> knome: don't forget I'm fighting fonts and stuff with this new monitor for some reason :(
<knome> oh right, text next
<knome> :D
<knome> flocculant, i didn't forget, i didn't know you were
<flocculant> knome: only because you didn't read the backlog :p
<knome> yes....
<flocculant> ochosi: not sure - it took a while to find some 'app' that affected anyway - globaltime prefs was the first one I found :D
<flocculant> ochosi: and the double border I'm sure I saw mentioned in -desktop so just assumed that would get done 
<flocculant> knome: flocculant> ochosi: generally I'm not seeing anything stand out eww theme wise, but I'm also trying to get fonts etc to look nice with a new monitor - not easy seemingly
<flocculant> that :)
<ochosi> flocculant: debugged toolbar issue and commented
<ochosi> guess that is not a bug, so nothing to worry about for us there
<flocculant> ochosi: cool :)
<flocculant> marked it as such then 
<ochosi> yup, also i guess nobody cared enough before you came along ;)
<ochosi> i for one never tried that setting
<flocculant> well it was actually akxwi found it :)
<flocculant> not me - totally missed it twice 
<ochosi> ok, so i pushed some fixes to greybird for xenial, so if you test please use the shimmer daily PPA or ask bluesabre to update the pkg ;)
<ochosi> i don't see any other obvious glitches in our default apps for now
<ochosi> but i'll keep looking
<flocculant> knome pleia2 - can you perhaps bump the irc package session media things a bit for us
<flocculant> ochosi: I've been running with the 3 main ppa's since November or so 
<flocculant> but not the best person to notice either ;)
<ochosi> wow, not cool: http://i.imgur.com/z7y2die.png
<ochosi> (look at the username with focus)
<ochosi> flocculant: that's ok
<flocculant> seems that those sessions get better responses from the social stuff 
<flocculant> ochosi: might just be vbox issue, hardware doesn't look like that
<flocculant> nope I lied - should have looked first, didn't see that - never change user 
<knome> flocculant, just redo essentially the same, or is there something new?
<flocculant> same on hardware
<knome> flocculant, re: irc session...
<flocculant> that's confused me :)
<knome> flocculant, you asekd social media bump for irc session; do you want to repeat the same message or do you have something else to say?
<ochosi> flocculant: no worries, fixed it already
<ochosi> wow, indicator-sound looks really boring without any apps there
<knome> flocculant, the earlier message being https://twitter.com/Xubuntu/status/679446515472052224
<flocculant> knome: oh sorry, nothing new - still not got a date set
<knome> oki
<ochosi> bluesabre: we should add parole to indicator-sound by default, since that's our only *media* player now (currently it's empty, used to be gmusicbrowser)
<flocculant> currently we have 'some team' and 4 people with 2 time sets
<flocculant> knome: ^^
<flocculant> ochosi: so should we move to the xfce one instead ? 
<flocculant> ochosi: on the other hand - once people add a media tool, it populates 
<ochosi> i think the xfce plugin isn't really ready yet
<flocculant> mine has clementine, banshee,r'box, exaile and gmb in it 
<ochosi> although it works ok, but it's not yet a full replacement
<ochosi> as long as indicator-sound works and doesn't break, i'd keep it for nw
<flocculant> ochosi: ok - not had too many issues here when I used it
<flocculant> ochosi: probably for the best for 16.04 I guess :)
<knome> flocculant, https://twitter.com/Xubuntu/status/685587460454232064
<flocculant> \o/
<flocculant> that's just about perfect :)
<knome> good
<ochosi> bluesabre: i guess it's all about enabling parole's MPRIS2 plugin by default (i'd +1 that). for now i'll just drop gmb from the interested players...
<ochosi> bluesabre: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-default-settings/trunk/revision/587
<flocculant> ochosi: fixed the odd login username focus thing? 
<ochosi> bluesabre: ok, and another x-d-s commit enabling the MPRIS2 plugin (i hope this works on all archs, the property seems fairly specific...)
<ochosi> flocculant: sure sure
<ochosi> long time ago already
<ochosi> approx 1 min after i discovered it ;)
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<ochosi> alright, i think i fixed enough bugs for tonight
<ochosi> strolling off to the couch to watch some tv
<ochosi> if you discover other issues lemme know
<knome> lol
<knome> night
<flocculant> ochosi: what fixed in? I'll look for the thing dropping here? 
<flocculant> yep - night night ochosi :)
<ochosi> i just pushed some fixes to greybird, so you'll see it on the next daily build ;)
 * flocculant will just watch for random arty package updates :p
<ochosi> i'll prolly return in an hour or so to see whether bluesabre is around
<ochosi> and answers at least half of my random pings
<flocculant> ochosi: yea - guessed, will ping if I see something odd now I know it's there as an issue  :)
<ochosi> ok cool
<ochosi> bluesabre: meh, for some reason those buttons in xfpanel-switch's toolbar are not linked, hence they look awful :/
<ochosi> bluesabre: plus the app name in alt-tab says "xfpanel switch py"
<ochosi> booh
<flocculant> ochosi: so didn't think about it ^^, but if text next to icon is not completely supported - the test asks people to look, so should we ditch that bit of the test? 
<flocculant> just to forestall pointless bug reports 
<ochosi> yes
<ochosi> we should
<ochosi> doesn't make sense to test that
<bluesabre> ochosi: they should be linked
<bluesabre> ochosi: the other issue, I can confirm
<bluesabre> still catching up on backlog
<flocculant> bluesabre: hf :p
<ochosi> bluesabre: crap, just noticed this is another greybird 3.18 issue
<flocculant> ochosi: ok - report that now so I catch it later 
<ochosi> bluesabre: same problem in menulibre
<bluesabre> with the unlinked or alt-tab?
<ochosi> unlinked
<ochosi> alt-tab is definitely a code issue
<ochosi> app name isn't set in the appp
<bluesabre> yeah
<ochosi> menulibre does it right
<bluesabre> catfish should too, its a dumb property that really should be set automatically, but catfish and menulibre have the code for that
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> should be a one-liner
<bluesabre> mpris I'd +1
<flocculant> can I do that as well :)
<flocculant> mpris I'd +1
<ochosi> sure sure :)
<bluesabre> go for it
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> :)
<ochosi> i already pushed it, but thanks for the support ;)
<bluesabre> oh goodie
<ochosi> so yeah, greybird needs a pkg update and x-d-s does too
<ochosi> although i still need to fix those darn toolbar buttons
<bluesabre> I'm going to work on a number of small tasks tonight and this weekend, trying to fix bugs here and there
<ochosi> nice
<bluesabre> so, xfpm, greybird, x-d-s package updates
<bluesabre> what else?
<ochosi> i had a quiet hour too tonight to get stuff done
<ochosi> well, the icon updates are not very crucial i suppose
<ochosi> but they should be uploaded at some point with a x-artwork package
<flocculant> ochosi: I saw you had but I thought I would support you anyway :)
<bluesabre> expecting to do any more of those soon?  might be good to get us up to speed this cycle
<bluesabre> all sorts of package updates this weekend in that regard
<ochosi> flocculant: yup, thanks :)
<flocculant> :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: yeah, not sure what else we need
<flocculant> ochosi bluesabre - so while we are all here, nix a2 and wait for b1 ? 
<Unit193> Uhh, really bluesabre?
<bluesabre> hey Unit193 
<bluesabre> huh?
<Unit193> <property name="plugins" type="string" value="/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/parole-0/parole-mpris2.so"/>  ?
<ochosi> bluesabre: there are a few more icons to fix yeah, and i wanted to push the distroo specific stuff to a separate branch, not sure when i get to that
<bluesabre> flocculant: may as well
<ochosi> Unit193: yeah, that's what i meant before
<bluesabre> Unit193: ah, yes, that won't work
<Unit193> Oooh, Simon is drunk.
<ochosi> not really
<flocculant> bluesabre: ack then - unless something changes in the near future - all it takes is a mail in time to -release list 
<bluesabre> flocculant: we've had some good testing so far (right?) and plenty of bug reports, so I think skipping a2 should be good and we can work hard for b1
<Unit193> (Kidding, kidding.)  Usually it looks like the format used is 'parole-mpris2', and the one used of course won't work on anything apart from Amd64.
<bluesabre> a2 is jan 28, b1 is feb 25
<flocculant> bluesabre: I *think* so - all I can see is what I have done and tracker reports, and I do try and check bugs out too
<flocculant> but pretty much, 
<flocculant> as wily is xenial 
<bluesabre> with plenty of gtk bugs
<flocculant> mmm
<bluesabre> er, xenial is wily with plenty of gtk bugs
<flocculant> I think we should use qt 
<flocculant> can we have clementine now? 
<flocculant> :D
<bluesabre> i think you're thinking of qubuntu
<flocculant> bluesabre ha ha ha 
<bluesabre> I'd say lubuntu... but lxqt is still not on the map
<bluesabre> :)
<flocculant> no don't say that 
<bluesabre> ;)
<ochosi> bluesabre: oh man, that fix for the linked buttons won't be much fun
<ochosi> ok, pushed the parole mpris plugin fix fix
<ochosi> meh, so the linked buttons in inline-toolbars are broken in light-themes as well (as always, only adwaita works)
<flocculant> so 
<flocculant> we should just remove numix and adwaita and then go for a dose of hope :)
<flocculant> or love
<ochosi> yeah i guess
<flocculant> ochosi: see the trouble is I'll not see anything arty until you say 'what about that?' then it's just a house of cards :)
<ochosi> well actually this means i will have to rebase greybird on adwaita for >16.04
<flocculant> :( 
<ochosi> lots and lotsa work considering xfce won't be gtk3 by then
<flocculant> rebasing is just pita I assume, cos a bunch of versions
<flocculant> yea - what I assumed 
<ochosi> well, it basically means i'll have to start from scratch
<ochosi> cause it's not just rebasing, but CSS -> SASS
<flocculant> oh that's really crud 
<ochosi> anyhow, enough rambling
<ochosi> night y'all, i need some sleep
<flocculant> for april? 
<ochosi> that one i don't get
<flocculant> for 16.04 then? 
<flocculant> oh nvm >16.04 :)
<flocculant> sleep well ochosi :)
<ochosi> thanks, night!
<flocculant> :)
#xubuntu-devel 2016-01-09
<SwissBot> feed xubuntu-artwork had 4 updates, showing the latest 3
<bluesabre> and I'm back
<flocculant> and I'm just off :)
<bluesabre> night all
<bluesabre> ochosi: looks like parole requires the full plugin path (latest commit does not work)
<bluesabre> ochosi: I'll check into it soon, but we might be able to make parole's plugin loading a bit smarter able to use just the plugin name
<ochosi> bluesabre: yeah, that's what i thought and why i initially said we might have to look into this (when i saw the plugin path). then Unit193 suggested the module name suffices and i blindly followed. lesson learned, don't listen to Unit193 ;)
<knome> hah
<Unit193> Works otherwise there, clearly parole is broken. :D
<Unit193> (And full path clearly wouldn't work anyway.)
<Unit193> knome: There's 'Ubuntustudio Wallpaper Contest' pending for -users.  Not touching it myself, but thinking perhaps 'no' might be a good choice?
<knome> i was about to ask another opinion from pleia2 
#xubuntu-devel 2016-01-10
<pleia2> I think it's ok
<pleia2> they're our friends :)
<knome> pleia2, done
<bluesabre> ochosi, Unit193: http://git.xfce.org/apps/parole/commit/?id=697e96b16806d045f7e732c35678a545833b8f31 :)
<Unit193> Yey I was right! :-------D
<ochosi> bluesabre: nice, thanks!
<bluesabre> ochosi: np, working on a patched parole package, then will update x-d-s
<bluesabre> ochosi: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-default-settings/trunk/revision/587 maybe we could add parole to the interested players?
<bluesabre> if you agree, I'll do that and change the parole plugin config one last time, then upload
<bluesabre> ochosi: I've got all those changes ready to commit and upload. Tested locally, all good
<bluesabre> knome: remind me what change you wanted in parole for titles or filenames... and I'll implement that tonight
<bluesabre> heading out now, bbl
<ochosi> bluesabre: yeah, i was considering to add parole there, but then felt maybe it isnt necessary
<bluesabre> ochosi: could be good for discovery, since thats where people would find gmb previously
<ochosi> bluesabre: yeah, but parole showed up for me there automatically with the MPRIS2 plugin enabled, even if not added to intersted players or running
<bluesabre> ochosi: once the sound-indicator knows about an app, it stays there forever.  This would make it show up there even when not initially launched
<bluesabre> good for initial discovery
<bluesabre> (gmb would also be shown there if launched and playing music once)
<knome> bluesabre, when there is no metadata to show, show the file name
<knome> bluesabre, for example with an mp3 file without id3 tags, or a wav file, or whatever that might be
<knome> bluesabre, personally i wouldn't mind if there was an option to *always* show the filename (because what is considred an id3 tag? if the tag theoretically exists but is empty, is it an id3tag or not?) 
<bluesabre> knome: gotcha
<bluesabre> I'll get that in trunk today
 * knome bows
<ochosi> bluesabre: alrighty, i don't mind adding it there, as i said, i thought of it before, just didn't feel it was direly necessary but i guess it's a good choice!
<knome> hey ochosi 
#xubuntu-devel 2017-01-02
<knome> wut??
<bluesabre> Pidgin doesn't support themes installed system-wide... yet
<bluesabre> [xubuntu-dev] Integrate the Pidgin theme: TODO
<knome> aha
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: [xubuntu-templates] r630 Add Xubuntu templates (by Sean Davis)
<knome> nice work
<ochosi> bluesabre: that'd be awesome (the pidgin theme support). i wonder how upstream development of pidgin is going these days (last time i looked they still seemed far away from gtk3 etc)
<flocculant> bluesabre: nice :)
<ochosi> evening everyone
<flocculant> evening ochosi :)
<knome> hello
#xubuntu-devel 2017-01-03
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r489 Make switches rounder and smaller (fixes #169)... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
<ochosi> flocculant: youll soon have more stuff to test (settings for the log are slowly getting ready)
<ochosi> flocculant: ok, i have added several options for logging now and rebased my branch upon master, so no additional - already fixed - issues should appear. so anything you notice there should also affect master and would be report-worthy
<ochosi> flocculant: here's the link to the branch if you find the time for some testing: https://git.xfce.org/users/ochosi/xfce4-notifyd/log/?h=logging_rebased
<ochosi> flocculant: you should also be able to mute clementine and decide whether you want to log its notifications or not ;)
<flocculant> ochosi: okey doke
<flocculant> ochosi: fatal: remote error: access denied or repository not exported: /users/ochosi/xfce4-notifyd/log/?h=logging_rebased
<ochosi> that's what the browser says..?
<flocculant> that's what terminal does when I git clone it 
<ochosi> if you're in your terminal then just go to the 'ol git directory and do a "git pull; git checkout logging_rebased"
<flocculant> oh right ok :)
<ochosi> and then possibly run a "make distclean" before "./autogen.sh && make && sudo make install && killall xfce4-notifyd" all over again
<flocculant> ta - doing that now - then will undo all my stop this thing notifying changes :p
<flocculant> ochosi: so this version should scroll in settings-manager?
 * flocculant thinks more about changing nick to the_grinch
<flocculant> ochosi: bit confused here - but also just got in from work ... you around for a bit later on?
<ochosi> if the scrolling works for you on master it should work in this branch as well
<ochosi> sure, i'll be around a little later as well
<ochosi> will head out for a bit though
<ochosi> anyway, just ping me when you need help, otherwise just click through the options and lemme know whether they make sense to you
<ochosi> i'm also happy about feedback regarding the wording from native speakers
<flocculant> ochosi: ack - still doing the just got in stuff - will look in a while and ping you :)
<ochosi> knome: so i just finished the log options for notifyd (just to let you know)
<ochosi> http://i.imgur.com/LtGWRY8.png
<ochosi> http://i.imgur.com/D9CoaWP.png
<ochosi> even implemented your suggestion of dynamically updating the infobar label with the logging state ;)
<knome> mhm ;)
<knome> looks good to me
<ochosi> yeah, the "Do not disturb" label is still a bit odd
<ochosi> but it's the best i could come up with so far
<knome> i guess
<knome> yep
<knome> ok, going to do other things
<knome> bbl
<ochosi> sure, hf, me too in fact :)
<knome> yup, hf too
<flocculant> ochosi: this version still won't scroll in Settings Manager (zesty)
<flocculant> and when we were talking the other day about options - there appears to be one missing - eg have notifications but not logged
<flocculant> or is that just not possible? 
 * flocculant sort of envisages something like http://i.imgur.com/zpDF4o3.jpg 
<flocculant> for example clementine notifies to desktop - but doesn't fill the log with hours worth of track names :)
<ochosi> flocculant: initially i thought of adding another row in the applications tab but then it felt like total overkill, you know, it's also a burden to the user having to handle so many switches/options
<flocculant> yea understood
<flocculant> anyway - seems to work - except scrolling in s-m
<ochosi> so in this sense the "mute" option is reused for the log
<flocculant> doesn't *work* for me with what I'd want - but that's something else entirely :)
<flocculant> imagine wanting to see notifications from media - but not wanting it logged 
<ochosi> in fact that's a problem of media players tbh
<ochosi> the freedesktop.org notification standard (and pretty much all of its practical implementarions in DEs) has a "transient" property that nobody seems to use
<ochosi> if clementine would mark its notifications as transient, they would never be logged (i implemented that)
<flocculant> oh right
<ochosi> the whole "persistence" feature - which is what the log is in the end - is described that way
<ochosi> that's another reason - apart from the settings overkill - why i didn't want to re-implement something that was already there
<ochosi> hopefully disappointed users (like yourself ;)) will report bugs to media player devs
<flocculant> ok - I did think perhaps it was an unlikely thing :)
<ochosi> nah, i totally get the use-case
<ochosi> i also need to still implement the transient feature in xfce4-volumed
<flocculant> yea of course - wish I could patch that and send it to them - more likely to occur 
<ochosi> cause really: why would you want to log audio volume changes...
<ochosi> that should be easy though
<ochosi> it's just an additional bit to set on the notification
<ochosi> so a one-liner, most likely
<ochosi> but first i need to release that darn thing, otherwise you have no good grounds for arguing ;)
<flocculant> mmh - easy for you perhaps I have trouble with a shebang :D
<ochosi> so more testing and fixing
<flocculant> ha ha ha yea ofc :p
<ochosi> sure, if you point me to the source i can take a look later, but first notifyd
<flocculant> ochosi: ok - that'll be a deal :p
<ochosi> btw, also thanks for the mockup :) that's totally awesome
<ochosi> really made clear what you meant
<ochosi> ppl should draw more
<flocculant> welcome - sometimes it's so much easier :D
<flocculant> so - for me only issue I can see is the scrolling
<flocculant> I've got it set up in a vm too - I will double check there a bit later tonight
<ochosi> ok, i'll double-check too
<ochosi> crap, so it still works for me
<ochosi> must be zesty
<ochosi> or can you reproduce in yak as well?
<flocculant> \o/
<flocculant> I did try in yak - not reproducing there for me
<flocculant> and by \o/ I mean at least it's zesty and not flocculant's frankenstein install ;)
<flocculant> ochosi: I'll boot the vm now 
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> yeah, if it's zesty it could be some problem with gtk3.22
<ochosi> cause i presume that's what zesty has
<flocculant> 3.22.5
<ochosi> yeah, so that may be it
<ochosi> ideally it'll just be a small setting somewhere
<flocculant> yup
<flocculant> grrrr
<flocculant> does parole not work in this ?
<flocculant> oh nvm - it caught up :)
<flocculant> ochosi: ok definitely not working on a vanilla zesty
<flocculant> rebooting to yak
<flocculant> ochosi: ok - so not sure what's up here then - this is a pretty much vanilla yak install, scrolling with mouse in notifications works - notifications from settings manager - not working
<flocculant> guess I didn't look properly the other day
<flocculant> when I say scroll - I mean up and down with the mouse wheel - not grabbing the bar and moving it up and down 
<ochosi> flocculant: yeah, i subscribe to the same basic concept of "scrolling", but it works for me...
<flocculant> just thought I would make completely sure we're on the same page there ;)
<flocculant> not sure what to say then tbh - doesn't work on yak for me in s-m
<flocculant> only other thing is perhaps you have more up to date other stuff than a default install would have - perhaps 
<slickymaster> knome, pleia2, there's a typo in the http://xubuntu.org/news/integrating-releases-website/ page
<slickymaster> "documentation" in the second paragraph of the Release Pages section
<slickymaster> actually, currently it's "documentaion" :P
<slickymaster> fixed and updated
 * flocculant wanders off again
<knome> slickymaster, :P
<slickymaster> hf flocculant 
<slickymaster> hi knome :P
<knome> hello
<knome> anyway, you like the integration?
<slickymaster> yes
<knome> good
<slickymaster> it's really a one-stop shop for all our supported release
<knome> unsupported too
<slickymaster> yes
<slickymaster> and I suppose that in maintenance terms it's much better knome 
<knome> way better
<knome> all download lists are now created dynamically from one list of mirrors
<slickymaster> hm hm
<knome> what? :P
<slickymaster> just agreeing with your reply, knome 
<knome> aha :P
<ochosi> bluesabre: hey there! wanna help out with your threading power/experience on this one? https://git.xfce.org/users/ochosi/xfce4-notifyd/tree/xfce4-notifyd-config/main.c?h=logging_rebased#n486
<ochosi> (unless it's just g_thread_new())
#xubuntu-devel 2017-01-04
<bluesabre> ochosi, g_timeout_add is what I would suggest
<bluesabre> or rather, g_idle_add
<bluesabre> https://developer.gnome.org/glib/stable/glib-The-Main-Event-Loop.html#g-idle-add
<bluesabre> the callback function would handle 1 round of the loop each go until done
<bluesabre> once done, return FALSE to end the loop
<bluesabre> should be some examples here and there of it
<bluesabre> for one, https://mail.xfce.org/pipermail/xfce4-commits/2012-February/028502.html
<flocculant> what package is it that would concern itself with how to open something - eg a pdf from a website worked ok the other day, now it's apparently trying to open with mousepad :(
<bluesabre> flocculant, usually its xdg-utils or exo
<bluesabre> neither have been updated in the last few days though (exo back in November)
<bluesabre> maybe check if its happening in ubuntu land as well, could be some other completely unrelated thing
<bluesabre> ochosi, what gtk3 xfce things would you recommend pulling into zesty that have not already landed?
<flocculant> bluesabre: thanks - I coculdn't remember those at all :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: and it's seemingly a local thing
<flocculant> and transient - cos it works now ...
<akxwi-dave> ochosi just to advise, the scrolling problem flocculant has on the notification settings.. I'm getting the same thing on todays iso..  once a number of programs have been added to the second tab.. you can scroll with the scroll bar,  but not the scroll wheel of the mouse..
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: the one on the iso (iirc) is the 'old' version - and the mouse scroll issue should be fixed in master
<flocculant> master (or the logging_rebased) thing should have that fixed - that is what ochosi and I have been talking about
<flocculant> http://i.imgur.com/cPtAlrw.png
<flocculant> iso on the left there
<flocculant> oh my this could get confusing - screenshotting the screenshot tool :)
<akxwi-dave> lol.. ahhh  so  new version coming
<flocculant> should be - not sure when though :)
<flocculant> you can test it too :p
<flocculant> ochosi: get this erratically > http://i.imgur.com/adwlFwL.png
<akxwi-dave> :-) will teach me to try and skim read a catch up rather than fully    :-)
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> git clone git://git.xfce.org/users/ochosi/xfce4-notifyd; cd xfce4-notifyd; git checkout logging_rebased;;
<flocculant> ./autogen.sh && make && sudo make install && killall xfce-notifyd
<flocculant> would be good to confirm it not working on zesty I think
<flocculant> I think that is all right ^^
<akxwi-dave> got a zest machine at work.. will get that tested 1st thing
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: cheers - best check in channel here before - just in case I got the git voodoo wrong ...
<flocculant> oh - apt-get build deps xfce4-notifyd too 
<ochosi> flocculant: hm, well the scrolling issue doesn't appear for me here, so it's not yet fixed in master. i will try to spin up a vm with zesty though and test it there with notifyd
<ochosi> the thing that is fixed though is the not-expanding scrolled window
<flocculant> ochosi: ack - window expansion is good here 
<ochosi> k, good
<flocculant> ochosi: does the bit above I told akxwi-dave look right?
 * flocculant grabbed it from bash history ;)
<ochosi> btw, would have been nice to get the bug also reported upstream so that users from other distros can also chime in
<flocculant> which - the scrolling thing?
<ochosi> yeah, that looks about right
<ochosi> yeah, the scrolling one
<flocculant> I did ask about reporting - and you said tell me in here ;)
<flocculant> I did do some lp reporting I think - but I'm happy to report upstream ofc 
<flocculant> ochosi: though git issue or bugzilla?
<ochosi> yeah, but only for stuff that doesn't affect master ;)
<flocculant> ok :)
<ochosi> upstream is in bugzilla, github is only a mirror
<ochosi> so bugs.xfce.org
<flocculant> ok - so I can do that no problem at all 
<flocculant> ochosi: how do I get the version from git? 
<ochosi> flocculant: how do you mean?
<flocculant> is it some bizarre version of xfce4-notifyd - or just what I'd see from dpkg -l ?
<ochosi> you lost me there
<flocculant> ok - well nvm then :p
<flocculant> anywat xfce 13275
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 13275 in general "Scrolling in Notifications applications and log fails in Settings Manager" [Normal,New] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13275
<flocculant> anyway ...
<flocculant> linked the lp bug to that too
<ochosi> so you want to have the version of git master..?
<flocculant> I just wondered that - not necessary for the bug I guess
<ochosi> but this bug also affects the version shipped in zesty, right?
<flocculant> yea 
<ochosi> k, so i'll add 0.3.4 as the version tag
<flocculant> ochosi: I just did that 
<flocculant> and akxwi-dave confirmed the issue in the zest version ^^
<ochosi> yup
<flocculant> and I was seeing that (and the non expanding box) previously to you talking me into this git version :D
<flocculant> added that as a comment on the bug (ignoring the expansion of box)
<flocculant> off now - night all 
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> night flocculant 
<knome> ochosi, you have 10 minutes?
<knome> bluesabre, when are you going to be around?
<ochosi> like "10" or 10?
<knome> 10
<knome> well it depends how fast YOU are...
<ochosi> bluesabre: do you feel we can unleash xfce4-settings-gtk3 on users just yet?
#xubuntu-devel 2017-01-05
<bluesabre> hi knome 
<bluesabre> hi ochosi 
<bluesabre> ochosi, probably not a great idea, but suppose I can get some package together so folks can take a look at least
<knome> hai bluesabre 
<knome> just going to bed, but check your PM
<knome> nighty!
<bluesabre> nighty knome
<flocculant> ochosi: well - I'm glad you can see the bug to confirm it at least :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: g_idle_add looks surprisingly simple to handle, are there any pitfalls?
<flocculant> morning ochosi :)
<ochosi> morning flocculant 
<flocculant> I assume the xfce4-s-gtk3 above is so you can use gtkinspector ?
<ochosi> flocculant: yup, or to see whether the problem even exists with the gtk3 version of the settings manager
<bluesabre> ochosi, only pitfall is if the callback function is slow. basically the main thread is handed to that function so you'll have locking at that point, which is nearly any point since ui changes are near instant and the thread is available again
<bluesabre> but if the function is even somewhat reasonably fast, it will still seem responsive
<flocculant> ochosi: yup that makes sense :)
<knome> pleia2, could we enable some kind of traffic stats for docs.xubuntu.org?
<pleia2> sure
<pleia2> could add webalizer or something
<knome> yeah
<knome> would be nice to know if people are actually reading them
<knome> and how they find them
<slickymaster> we could also launch some sort of public inquiry on our media 
<knome> pleia2, do you remember/know if the IS has some kind of policy on traffic stats for stuff hosted by them?
<slickymaster> asking how many users do use/read the shipped documentation
<knome> slickymaster, those are always so meh :(
<pleia2> knome: I never got a straight answer, all my requests for stats on the Ubuntu wiki pretty much went unanswered
<pleia2> afaict they were put in the "haha we'll never do that" queue
<slickymaster> yeah, but the other will just give us data from the online docs
<knome> slickymaster, they only reach a small subset of the people - likely those who don't need the docs that much anyway
<slickymaster> which might not represent the real universe of users
<knome> yeah, but it's a passive task for the users
<slickymaster> yes, that's true
<knome> pleia2, meh
<slickymaster> but we could try to come out with some sort of not so meh inquiry
<slickymaster> and hello pleia2 
<pleia2> knome's right, it won't reach the right people
<knome> pleia2, actually i remember one reply where they mentioned privacy
<pleia2> folks who follow their operating system on social media are a special crowd ;)
<knome> pleia2, "we must make sure people can't be identified individually" or sth
<pleia2> probably so
<knome> anyway, asked on #canonical-sysadmin 
#xubuntu-devel 2017-01-06
<ochosi> bluesabre: just replaced notebook with gtkstack in xfce4-notifyd-config, that was surprisngly easy and looks quite great too
<bluesabre> ochosi, can't say it looks great and then not post a screenshot :)
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<flocculant> morning bluesabre :)
<bluesabre> morning flocculant 
<flocculant> bluesabre: re ochosi and the settings manager in gtk3 - I assume you'd put that on the current ppa for zesty and I would just see the update? 
<flocculant> even if it goes awfully wrong and ppa-purge :D
<bluesabre> flocculant, yeah, I'll let you know when its up
<bluesabre> I'll probably toss it in my experimental ppa first, dunno how bad it can be
<flocculant> ack 
<ochosi> bluesabre_: hehe, alright, here you go: http://i.imgur.com/NuBqoe3.png
<ochosi> http://i.imgur.com/vjUfAdi.png
<ochosi> http://i.imgur.com/xHEVzAv.png
<ochosi> flocculant: a look into the future ^
<flocculant> I saw :)
<flocculant> and I hope it's Xubuntu ... you're go to Xfce distro :p
<ochosi> flocculant: wait, what..?? :) are you hanging out with the elementary folks or something?
<flocculant> nah - that was on one of those screenshots :p
<ochosi> oh, haha
<ochosi> yeah, the notification log should be blurred by default on screenshots ;)
<flocculant> :p
<ochosi> i still need to fix the clear log and refresh buttons
<flocculant> looks good though :)
<ochosi> thanks, yeah the inline toolbar makes the buttons more connected to the widget they belong to
<ochosi> or did you mean the revamp in general?
<flocculant> well - both really - the revamped revamp and the original revamp :)
<ochosi> :D
<ochosi> thanks
<flocculant> welcome :)
<flocculant> ochosi: btw - I'm watching for gtk3 s-manager btw - as soon as I see it - I'll test scrolling and let you know (assuming I see it first ;) )
<ochosi> i'll push my latest changes to my branch soon btw
<ochosi> and this may be test-worthy too
<ochosi> at least if the problem was really on xfce4-notifyd's side
<ochosi> because the widgets changed a lot
<ochosi> no more gtknotebook
<ochosi> maybe that helps with the scrolling
<flocculant> ochosi: just let me know and I will git pull (I think) and test
<ochosi> purrfect
<flocculant> well I did that with what I have and see some changes already :)
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> yeah, but it's not the last transformation/cleanup
<flocculant> nope - I see it's not like the one you screenshot just now 
<ochosi> you also noticed the application icons?
<flocculant> I do now :D
<flocculant> especially the non-existing xfces4-settings-helper one :D
<flocculant> I would screenshot it - but it's all blurred lol
<ochosi> :D
<ochosi> yeah, the search for icons is far from perfect or good
<ochosi> i'm still not sure whether it's better to show them as is or remove them again
<flocculant> ochosi: well - I don't know how perfect it would be in the end - any reason why xfce4-anything-at-all 'needs' to have an icon eg. tell it not to use those even if they exist? 
<ochosi> sry, can you rephrase that in simple english?
<flocculant> rather than show a 'no icon available' thing
<flocculant> ochosi: I'll try 
<ochosi> there shouldn't be a "broken image" icon in the last revision
<ochosi> maybe you need to git pull again
<ochosi> (if that was your concern)
<flocculant> it is - I did - it's still there 
<ochosi> that is odd
<flocculant> anyway - might point was - nice to see application icons - but for the things like I see here http://i.imgur.com/dIdsdPa.png
<ochosi> could you do a "make distclean" and start again from autogen?
<ochosi> oh, that looks ok
<ochosi> apart from settings-helper
<flocculant> is there any actual reason to see those xfce4-any-thing with an icon?
<ochosi> you mean like places-plugin?
<flocculant> eg if some have them - some don't and some give the broken image - could those icons just be ignored completely? 
<flocculant> yea
<ochosi> the broken image should never be shown, not sure why it is in this case
<flocculant> ok
<ochosi> i check whether an icon with that name exists in the icon theme and if it does i display it, if not i display an empty image
<ochosi> when does settings-helper show a notification...
 * ochosi scratches head
<flocculant> well just distclean and redid autogen etc - and it still shows broken
<ochosi> i need to reproduce that
<ochosi> hm, that is not even an executable
<flocculant> well - yea I don't even know what it does lol
<ochosi> is your log still there?
<ochosi> you could open it and search
<flocculant> nah I cleared it the other day when it was full of track 1 track million etc
<ochosi> full log is in: ~/.cache/xfce4/notifyd/log
<flocculant> yup
<ochosi> k
<flocculant> oh hang on - I copied it to yak and xenial to test those
<ochosi> actually i guess i can fake it
<flocculant> nothing in there that looks close 
<ochosi> ok, i get the same broken image here
<ochosi> very strange
<ochosi> that icon definitely does not exist
<flocculant> ok cool 
<flocculant> well - you know what I mean - you can see it too :)
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> thanks
<flocculant> sometimes I'm not sure whether it's just 'my installs' 
<ochosi> well oftentimes it's not ;)
<flocculant> :D
<ochosi> ok, pushed another small change for the primary monitor option
<ochosi> now when i've fixed the inline toolbar buttons (refresh and clear) i'll be done with the settings dialog for now
<flocculant> :)
<ochosi> righty, done
<ochosi> may add some icons to those two buttons
<ochosi> or even another button that opens the full log in a text editor
<ochosi> but that is optional and for later
<ochosi> flocculant: do you have any input on the phrasing of some of the options?
<ochosi> also, would you be ok with testing the log options once more? (i'm removing the "never" option now as it doesn't seem to make sense anymore)
<flocculant> ochosi: can I look tomorrow at the phrasing - supermarket has just delivered stuff for a month here 
<flocculant> and yes ofc I will test the options again - I'll turn on ones I have turned off currently too :)
<ochosi> sure, anytime
<ochosi> there's no rush
<flocculant> ok - well I will look at that tomorrow for you otherwise I'll forget :)
<flocculant> ochosi: I'm going to disappear shortly - I will git pull etc tomorrow before checking wording so I'm sure of being up to date with it 
<ochosi> absolutely!
<ochosi> i shall do the same
<ochosi> i really need the slee
<ochosi> p
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> I remember those days with fondness ... not sure I felt that fond when I had toddlers though :D
<flocculant> night night ;)
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> i will push this to master soon i think
<ochosi> it's in really good shape already
<ochosi> thanks for your help flocculant 
<flocculant> never a problem :)
<flocculant> I'll be away now - night :)
<bluesabre> ochosi, thanks, looks good
<bluesabre> padding is a bit funky, but good
<bluesabre> and inline toolbar buttons are usually icon only
<bluesabre> and linked
<bluesabre> :D
#xubuntu-devel 2017-01-07
<flocculant> ochosi: http://i.imgur.com/IwhF4NF.jpg http://i.imgur.com/IayMLPm.jpg and http://i.imgur.com/lJHO427.jpg
<flocculant> mmm
<flocculant> after all that ignore the middle (application one) 
<flocculant> this is better for application http://i.imgur.com/hNCOHju.jpg
<flocculant> hope that helps - if nothing else it will make you think :)
<flocculant> ochosi: I really like the idea of show notifications on display with mouse pointer \o/
<flocculant> only slightly visual thing I would mention is the application list has 90deg corners, the log list has rounded corners at bottom - (perhaps because it has that Refresh/Clear button area?)
 * flocculant generally doesn't like that whole square at top, rounded at bottom thing - which I assume is some gtk3 thing
<flocculant> ochosi: ummm - seems that while that all looks good - it's broken here. Open notify settings - set which to mute. Close settings - no notifications, re-open settings and those you unmuted are now muted again.
 * flocculant is in and out for a while now
<ochosi> bluesabre: the inline toolbar buttons *are* linked. and i'll probably add icons later
<ochosi> flocculant: ok, i'll check what i broke with restructuring the code and all
<ochosi> the "display with mouse pointer" was always the default btw
<ochosi> i just exposed it now by adding an alternative to it (primary display)
<ochosi> i'll go through the rest of your suggestions later
<ochosi> the heading subtitle cannot be changed dynamically
<ochosi> but we can reformulate it
<flocculant> I did think that was the case with subtitle - in which case the screenshot suggestion to remove 'screen' seems more important to me 
<flocculant> cya later :)
<bluesabre> ochosi, there seems to be a space between them in this screener (compared to the stack buttons) http://i.imgur.com/xHEVzAv.png
<ochosi> bluesabre: yeah, that's not the latest version ;)
<ochosi> i've fixed that already
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> :)
<ochosi> but i guess now i need to look into what is broken with the settings
<ochosi> bluesabre: if you wanna help out by submitting a patch for the g_idle_add callback you're more than welcome to ;)
<flocculant> ochosi: I didn't notice this issue prior to last night
<flocculant> not able to give you more of a clue than that :(
<ochosi> np
 * flocculant wanders off again 
<ochosi> hopefully not a big deal
<ochosi> flocculant: only the muted apps? or other settinsg too?
<ochosi> ah
<ochosi> i see
<flocculant> ochosi: only seems to be the muted apps page that has an issue - other settings stay as I set them
<bluesabre> ochosi, will take a look later
<ochosi> it's because i added the icon
<ochosi> flocculant: already fixed locally
<flocculant> orly
<flocculant> ochosi: ok \o/
 * flocculant really does wander off now :p
<flocculant> bluesabre: hi and have a great day :)
<ochosi> flocculant: ok, pushed the fix. so i hope the rest is still fine (please keep testing ;))
<ochosi> flocculant: btw, if we invert the logic from "show notification" to "mute application" (i had that initially), then the switches in the list will be more unclear
<ochosi> flocculant: e.g. does an active switch mean the app is muted..? or that it is "enabled"?
<ochosi> flocculant: so that was my reasoning for doing it like this
<flocculant> mmm - ok that makes sense to me
<ochosi> but i agree, the usage of "muted" in the other context may not be ideal
<flocculant> wonder how we can word that then 
<ochosi> yeah, i'm not 100% sure how to word all the options
<flocculant> I'll think more on that for you :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: still around?
<ochosi> flocculant: thanks!
<bluesabre> ochosi, aroundish
<bluesabre> what's up?
<ochosi> bluesabre: just wanted to add another button for opening the log in an external editor or at least showing the folder in a file-browser
<ochosi> and you do that in catfish too
<ochosi> so in terms of being lazy and not looking through the code, do you just use xdg-open directly with a path?
<ochosi> (it seems to work from the term)
<bluesabre> ochosi, or exo-open
<ochosi> but exo-open is xfce specific
<bluesabre> glib has a launch thing too
<ochosi> and potentially will die, no?
<bluesabre> one sec
<ochosi> right..
<bluesabre> https://developer.gnome.org/gdk2/stable/GdkScreen.html#gdk-spawn-on-screen that's what you'll use to launch
<ochosi> that has been deprecated...
<ochosi> (you're looking at gdk2)
<bluesabre> https://developer.gnome.org/gio/2.48/GAppInfo.html
<bluesabre> https://developer.gnome.org/gio/2.48/GAppInfo.html#g-app-info-launch  maybe?
<ochosi> yeah, but then i would have to know what app
<bluesabre> https://mail.gnome.org/archives/commits-list/2011-February/msg00684.html
<bluesabre> yeah, xdg-open should be fine
<bluesabre> don't imagine we'll be dropping exo-open though
<ochosi> who knows
<ochosi> maybe we'll just make exo-open a wrapper for xdg-open
<bluesabre> looking for what else might be used
<bluesabre> aha
<bluesabre> here you go https://developer.gnome.org/gio/stable/GAppInfo.html#g-app-info-launch-default-for-uri
<bluesabre> (use the one below that)
<bluesabre> oh wait, nope
<ochosi> :D
<bluesabre> getting terms confused use g_app_info_launch_default_for_uri
 * ochosi waits a little longer anyway to be sure
<bluesabre> ochosi, feel confident about that
<ochosi> which one?
<bluesabre> https://developer.gnome.org/gio/stable/GAppInfo.html#g-app-info-launch-default-for-uri
<ochosi> the waiting?
<ochosi> or any of your suggestions :D
<bluesabre> maybe none of them :D
<bluesabre> but that one seems like the A-OK acceptable one
<ochosi> ok cool, i'll give it a shot
<ochosi> also, if you wanna help me and flocculant in reviewing the naming of the current options feel free to!
<bluesabre> sure thing
<ochosi> i need more native speakers ;)
<bluesabre> I'll probably use that function's python version in catfish
<bluesabre> seems nice
<ochosi> bluesabre: humm, somehow it doesn't work
<ochosi> calling g_app_info_launch_default_for_uri (notify_log_path, NULL, NULL);
<ochosi> with a valid log_path
<bluesabre> ochosi, using uri?
<bluesabre> file://
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> bluesabre: thanks for the hint, that works :)
<bluesabre> ochosi, awesome!
<ochosi> ...and pushed
<flocculant> ochosi: not sure what's going on (maybe zesty) but I've pulled, distcleaned, rebuilt and still get the set things up, close then when it's re-opened - all are set to muted
<flocculant> back tomorrow 
<ochosi> flocculant: you may need to clear the "muted_applications" setting in xfce4-settings-editor
<ochosi> it was corrupted by the previous bug
<ochosi> (i had to do that in order to fix it for myself)
<flocculant> ochosi: that did it - thanks - back to testing it for you/me/us :p
<ochosi> flocculant: nice :)
<ochosi> flocculant: one more thing: changing strings means putting work to translators, so i usually am a little conservative about that
<knome> hello
<ochosi> hey knome 
<knome> hai ochosi 
<ochosi> bluesabre: what about renaming xfpanel-switch to something like "xfce panel layouts" or "xfce panel layouts manager" (in the UI at least and maybe in the desktop file)
<bluesabre> ochosi, that sounds pretty reasonable to me
<ochosi> plus i guess it would be a good idea to add an icon
<ochosi> even if it's a copy of the panel icon
<bluesabre> sounds fine to me
<bluesabre> it's a simple utility app, no need for a special icon
<ochosi> i wonder whether we should keep the name of the icon though
<ochosi> cause that may cause packaging conflicts
<bluesabre> it would, so it will look out of place until xfce icon themes get symlinks
<bluesabre> we can submit patches where we care to :)
<ochosi> yeah, guess so
<bluesabre> I'll try to tackle that soon
<ochosi> if you wanna update the makefile, i've already handled the rest
<ochosi> but: do you also wanna rename the executable/desktop file itself?
<ochosi> i.e. the project
<ochosi> from xfpanel-switch to something more reasonable like "xfce4-panel-layouts" or something?
<ochosi> or "xfce4-panel-layouts-manager"
<ochosi> (even if it's a little long, at least it's clear)
<bluesabre> probably not, it's already packaged in fedora/ubuntu (and maybe others)
<ochosi> k, then i guess the icon also has to be xfpanel-switch
<ochosi> bluesabre: https://code.launchpad.net/~ochosi/xfpanel-switch/dedicated_icon/+merge/314286
<flocculant> ochosi: I understand strings/translators - which is why I'm usually ok with us having bizarre wording - on the other hand - this is rather a big change to notifications - so surely 'now' would be a sensible time to change something?
<flocculant> and really - now that it does what it does - it is no longer setting up screen notifications - but a lot more
<flocculant> and I'm still not convinced by your argument re muting :)
<flocculant> ochosi: on the logging tab, the log applications - how about visible instead of muted?
<flocculant> the wording logic would need to swap though 
<ochosi> humm
<ochosi> (and yeah, ofc now is the best time to change the wording, that's another reason why i work in a separate branch not to disturb translators all the time)
<flocculant> yea :)
<ochosi> visible...
<ochosi> before we get more into wording
<flocculant> ochosi: so my thinking is - on Application tab - we talk about apps we see or don't show notification
 * flocculant waits
<ochosi> do you think a notification log counter is something that is needed?
<ochosi> like the amount of notifications that are in the log
<ochosi> currently i've set an implicit limit in the dialog to only show the first 100 items
<ochosi> because with all the widgets there it may become excessive
<flocculant> I don't think it would add much to it's usability
<ochosi> no idea whether that will be efficient or not
<ochosi> yeah, i could also show a warning saying that not all notifications in the log are shown
<flocculant> would a popup on the current open log in editor button work? 
<flocculant> something like 'Show full log in text' 
<ochosi> a popup?
<flocculant> the mouseover text
<ochosi> you mean a tooltip
<flocculant> yea
<ochosi> yeah, but a tooltip is already there
<flocculant> I know that :)
<ochosi> i just wanna make the users aware that there is a limit and that it has been hit
<ochosi> that was my thinking
<ochosi> the tooltip is not the most discoverable place for that
<ochosi> so i considered adding a line
<flocculant> true
<ochosi> at the bottom of the log
<flocculant> x/xxx logs showing? 
<flocculant> ochosi: could you have the open log button in the same horizontal plane? 
<flocculant> leaving the refresh/clear buttons at the very bottom?
<ochosi> i'll try something, give me a sec
<flocculant> something like x/xxx logs showing *button* for opening log in editor?
<flocculant> one day I'll make more effort how to fiddle about with bits like this :)
<flocculant> not effort - learning ;)
<ochosi> hm i think i need to fix some stuff there
<ochosi> the limit doesn't seem to work
<flocculant> I'd happily put effort in - no idea where to start though lol
<ochosi> will have to do that another day though, too tired tonight..
<ochosi> yeah, usually start with a small bug
<flocculant> :)
<ochosi> get familiar with the code of a small component, etc
<flocculant> like words :p
<flocculant> what's gtkinspector? is that what it sounds like it should be? 
<flocculant> for instance - if I worked out how to do the wording - I could (I assume) change the code locally, build it and not have to scribble on bits of paper and scan it :D
 * flocculant will look while you're asleep ;)
<ochosi> ok, this would be a start: http://i.imgur.com/etowHY6.png
<ochosi> if you wanna play with wording etc install glade and then edit the file in xfce4-notifyd-config/xfce4-notifyd-config.glade
<ochosi> that's really easy
 * flocculant did install glade a few weeks ago - trying to work things out
<flocculant> ok - I will look tomorrow then \o/
<flocculant> thanks ochosi 
<flocculant> oh boo - that screenshot reminds me 
<flocculant> bluesabre: parole and 'some' media files ... bug 1650038
<ubottu> bug 1650038 in parole (Ubuntu) "mkv files report gstreamer backend error" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1650038
<flocculant> oh - I think I pinged you about that ... sorry for the repeat lol
<ochosi> moving the "open in external editor" button to the "showing .." line would be easy
<flocculant> ochosi: then that would make more sense to me at least, 'You've got to 99 of 100 log entries, read the full log in text 'Button'
<flocculant> or something that's not quite so long to read 
<flocculant> :p
<ochosi> yeah :)
<ochosi> i'll push what i have
<flocculant> okey doke
<ochosi> because then at least things work as they should and there is some notification about the limit
<flocculant> yup
<ochosi> ok done
<flocculant> ochosi: just so you know - I'm quite adamant about losing the customise how notifications statement - makes 66% of sense :)
<ochosi> gotta get some sleep
<flocculant> yea - night night :)
<ochosi> yeah, i considered renaming the whole thing
<ochosi> just "Notification Center"
<ochosi> no subtitle
<flocculant> That would work 
<ochosi> or even just "Notifications" to spare the translators some work
<ochosi> but the subtitle really doesn't make too much sense, i agree
<flocculant> yea - losing it completely wouldn't be bad imho
<flocculant> and just having Notifications works too 
<flocculant> go to sleep :D
<ochosi> http://i.imgur.com/QEEImGP.png
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> will do now
<ochosi> looks a bit "naked" without a subtitle though
<ochosi> anyway, nighty ;)
<flocculant> anyone - got some odd libxfce4ui issue going on > http://i.imgur.com/uNfE6ni.png
<flocculant> I think that's why I stopped looking lol
#xubuntu-devel 2017-01-08
<Unit193> bluesabre: BTW, did you commit the changes to xfdashy to git and forget to push, or not commit? :3
<ochosi> flocculant: you need a newer release of libxfce4ui, the glade support was broken in earlier versions (i dont remember exactly when it was fixed)
<ochosi> flocculant: you can also s/XfceTitledDialog/GtkDialog/
<ochosi> then you can at least open and edit the file and the reverse the above ^
<ochosi> i can take a look later what version that was
<ochosi> but maybe bluesabre or the release notes can help you out meanwhile
<ochosi> bbl
<flocculant> ochosi: thanks
<flocculant> found newer libxfce4ui at debian - 4.13 or so - didn't make any difference 
<flocculant> and while I understand what s/Xfce/Gtk means - it didn't help lol
<ochosi> flocculant: it should help though, i can send you the appropriate sed line later
<bluesabre> Unit193, not sure which changes you're talking about
<ochosi> flocculant: running this sed command should enable you to open the settings dialog in glade:
<ochosi> sed -i "s/XfceTitledDialog/GtkDialog/" xfce4-notifyd-config.glade
<flocculant> ochosi: ty - that allowed it to open :)
<Unit193> Debian doesn't build the glade support.
<flocculant> Unit193: I guessed 
<Unit193> I had one that did.
<knome> irssi 1.0 i hear
<Unit193> It landed.
<knome> crashing or safely?
<Unit193> Not tried it yet.
<knome> oh noes
<knome> :)
<Unit193> You know I run a patched .17. :P
<knome> :P
<Unit193> bluesabre: Oh, I should likely have responded.  Eh, nothing much, just the slight changes from git to release.  http://paste.openstack.org/show/IWyK03Ul0YJx2T64sela everything but the d/watch change, I plan to push that soon though (tracks only stable releases.)
#xubuntu-devel 2018-01-04
<JackFrost> Hrm, so there's the new libxfce4ui that I either didn't or I just plain forgot to merge. \o/
<JackFrost> Had to trim my changes to exclude intro crap: http://paste.openstack.org/show/LnbtXz5TfvGkPKAlgxyq
<JackFrost> flocculant: Oh dang, I said it in my head but it never made it to IRC.  New libxfce4ui in experimental, please to test and ensure it doesn't break like 4.13.3 did.
<flocculant> when it arrives here I will
<flocculant> though tbh not sure what it does and what would break :p
<JackFrost> Eg, clicking help in xfce4-terminal or whatever.  About?  Rename title and hit help perhaps?
<flocculant> ok - lp appears to be lagging - and -release topic was changed to build farm maintenance, so I assume that's why
<flocculant> that ^^ isn't built I don't think
 * JackFrost builds it and adds it to the Vanir repository, tells flocculant to add that too. :--D
 * JackFrost ducks.
<JackFrost> And yeah, no builders is why.
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> I'll see it this evening I guess
<ochosi> JackFrost: we have two commits, one in panel one in settings that should be added as debian patches for 18.04, do you think you could help out on that or would you try to go throuhh debian?
<JackFrost> Depends on how bad things are.
<ochosi> both commits are tiny, one helps the re-attaching of external displays (and is already merged to 4.12 branch of settings), the other one sorts the separator up to the launcher in the panel's add item dialog
<ochosi> i can paste the links if that helps
<JackFrost> Doesn't sound like Debian.  There won't be releases any time soon then?
<ochosi> there just was a panel release so it feels like overkill to do another one just for this tiny patch
<ochosi> and regarding settings we can chat with bluesabre
<ochosi> but i can take a look if there are more things to be backpprted and do a 4.12.3 release of the panrl at some.point
<JackFrost> You really think these need to get in?
<ochosi> would just be nice if ppl could test this a little
<ochosi> the settings one definitely
<JackFrost> Xfce #13847, Xfce 14096
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 13847 in Settings Manager "Embedding can break settings window behavior" [Normal,Resolved: fixed] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13847
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 14096 in Display Settings "Leave a monitor where it was upon re-attaching" [Enhancement,Resolved: fixed] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14096
<ochosi> the second one is the one i meant
<ochosi> the panel fix is for knome ;)
<ochosi> and more trivial, but still a nice to have
<JackFrost> I mean if you want PPA stuff, sure.
<ochosi> yup, thats what i meant
<JackFrost> Ah you said 18.04, I thought real repos.
<ochosi> sry for being unclear, i meant: 18.04 staging ppas and then later 18.04 if there are no releases upstream in time
<knome> \o/
<bluesabre> good morning everyone
<JackFrost> Oh crap a blue sword is killing me.
<bluesabre> JackFrost: still no builders available?
<JackFrost> Uhh, nope!
<bluesabre> :(
<JackFrost> Want new libxfce4ui?  Build!
<bluesabre> wanted to get some menulibre updates tested, but lp had other ideas https://code.launchpad.net/~menulibre-dev/+recipe/menulibre-daily
<JackFrost> Didja see my pinging?
<bluesabre> I've seen a few pings here and there, yes
<JackFrost> Don't make me get the rabid wombat.
<bluesabre> new debian team, new libxfce4ui, ochosi wanted me to backport somethings and got tired of waiting and did it himself, what else...
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: well i guess we should simply check what we want for a new settings 4.12 release. i'd be in favor of dropping the color previews, as they dont work that well anymore (or at all) with gtk3
<bluesabre> ochosi: alrighty
<bluesabre> ochosi: I don't suppose there's a new notifyd around the corner? It seems to keep crashing on me (0.4.1)
<ochosi> rly? where's the bugreport for those crashes?
<ochosi> or is it fixed already woth master..?
<bluesabre> I'm looking at the core file right now to see if there's anything useful
<ochosi> (i suppose not)
<bluesabre> I just notice that anything that tries to send a notification suddenly halts and then I know it's crashed
<ochosi> i've never had a crash with it...
<ochosi> interesting
<JackFrost> I don't have crashing (mine is patched, but shouldn't solve crashes.)
<bluesabre> ochosi: pretty confident with reviewing crash files? I can send it along
<ochosi> sure, better than nothing
<ochosi> a reproducer or patch would be even nicer ofc ;)
<ochosi> do you also get those crashes with 0.4.0?
<ochosi> maybe it's worth bisecting...
<bluesabre> Hard to reproduce... I'll have notifications working for a while... until they don't :D
<bluesabre> I'm guessing it probably crashes before displaying the offending one
<bluesabre> ochosi: sent to your gmail
<ochosi> bluesabre: wait, is gmail the new bugtracker..? :)
<ali1234> is it reasonable/useful if i install 18.04 now?
<JackFrost> I have it.
<ali1234> i mean, on my main machine - currently 16.04. i don't mind if it crashes, i'll be able to send bug reports :)
<JackFrost> ochosi: Wait it is?  I have two to send you then!
<ochosi> :)
<bluesabre> ochosi: I imagine there could be some personal thing in there, and bugzilla doesn't have private bugs (I think)
<JackFrost> Pretty sure one is silently ignored though, the "Decode html entities" one.
<bluesabre> also, just crashed again apparently, with no dump
<bluesabre> moved to chrome since it has non-native notifications
<ochosi> bluesabre: would be interesting to know if there are specific apps that trigger this more often
<ochosi> ali1234: i guess flocculant would be the one who can tell you how stble 18.04 already is
<ochosi> bluesabre: the crash report is fairly useless, more than 90% are just binary (which i don't read well)
<bluesabre> seems like it crashed with rambox when you sent me your gmail bugtracker complaint
<bluesabre> I'll see what I can do to get a better trace
<ochosi> you can start it through gdb
<ali1234> do you have an apport crash?
<bluesabre> ali1234: yeah, that's what I sent along to ochosi
<JackFrost> Install the dbgsym package.
<ali1234> apport-retrace -s -S system /var/crash/_usr_bin_gedit.1000.crash
<ali1234> will get all the debug symbols for you and dump the stacktrace on stdout
<ali1234> https://piware.de/2011/08/apport-retrace-made-useful/
<bluesabre> JackFrost: E: Unable to locate package xfce4-notifyd-dbgsym
<ochosi> ali1234: cool, didn't know about that
<JackFrost> (Are they enabled for the PPAs?  I had for extras IIRC.)
<ochosi> lunchtime, bbabl
<ochosi> bluesabre: if you get a better trace lemme know!
<ochosi> bluesabre: plus think about the settings backport release, i think it'd be nice to do (and i can do it myself, i just don't want to do it without you being on board)
<bluesabre> ochosi: sure thing, will see if there's anything else I want to include there
<bluesabre> ali1234: thanks. Looks like that particular crash had nothing useful
<bluesabre> JackFrost: send me a ping :)
<JackFrost> bluesabre: I'm not here.
<bluesabre> darn, not enough to crash it
<JackFrost> bluesabre: â â â â
<bluesabre> neat, emoji in a notification
<bluesabre> well, it's running in gdb with dbgsym, now it should hopefully be a matter of time
<ochosi> bluesabre: ping, i'm killing your notifyd!
<ochosi> :)
 * JackFrost should blow up the PM...
<ochosi> just paste you /var/log in there ;)
<JackFrost> Due to unthrottled messages, I think I could cover his screen.
<ali1234> "/msg alis help" does that to me
<ali1234> cos it PMs you like 10 times in a row
<JackFrost> Notices don't hit notifyd for me.
<ali1234> i use pidgin - and alis behaves like just another user sending a PM
<ali1234> from pidgin's PoV that is
<ochosi> seems we fail to crash bluesabres notifyd...
<knome> awful
<knome> even if you try your best, you can't mess up with bluesabre 
<knome> :(
<knome> i'm disappointed i you
<knome> in too
<ochosi> maybe 0.4.1 is more stable than bluesabre insinuates
<bluesabre> We'll see
<bluesabre> ;)
<bluesabre> znc's help is 139 lines :D
<flocculant> ali1234: all pretty stable here - though that doesn't mean you won't get issues, also I might not use what you 'use'
<flocculant> in addition I've got all our ppa's 
<ali1234> at the moment mostly build and distro tools - proot, multistrap etc - and i'm hitting problems due to the age of the versions in 16.04
<flocculant> right - I don't use any of that :)
<ali1234> as long as it boots i should be okay :)
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> you might find it takes a while to boot the iso ...
<flocculant> other than that only issues I've seen have been self-made for the most part ...
<flocculant> or I have blamed ochosi, bluesabre or systemd - not necessarily in that order :p
<flocculant> slickymaster knome - thoughts on adding pavucontrol to the help docs
<slickymasterWork> flocculant we already have a brief description of it in the guide-default-apps chapter
<slickymasterWork> do you mean extend it a bit?
<flocculant> not if you can easily worj out what people are likely to actually want from here https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/PulseAudio/
<flocculant> tbh I wasn't looking for a throwaway line just now - hence not seeing that in the docs :)
<slickymasterWork> their documentation is a bit of a follow the trail type :P
<slickymasterWork> https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/PulseAudio/Documentation/User/
<flocculant> so not really very helpful to have in our help docs then
<slickymasterWork> well, it's not something right in the users face
<slickymasterWork> and the problem is to condensed so it 'would' fit the -docs policy
<slickymasterWork> and being helpful at the same time
<flocculant> that pa page is all command line
<slickymasterWork> yes
<flocculant> so not actually anything to do with pacontrol at all then
<slickymasterWork> you mean its GUI?
<flocculant> yea
<flocculant> you know it is :p
<flocculant> oic what you're saying
<flocculant> yea - the gui
<slickymasterWork> just asking to gain some time while I think :P
<flocculant> which is what people are more likely to look for 
<flocculant> it's people like me who want to know command line stuff ;)
<slickymasterWork> thing is are we wanting to start some sort of wiki, even if a tiny small one, of some package in the -docs?
<slickymasterWork> which is what I think you're trying to get to
<flocculant> no
 * slickymasterWork agrees
<flocculant> I'm saying why doesn't the help file cover pavucontrol - in an actually helpful way :)
<slickymasterWork> lol
<flocculant> if it's because we've not done it - then I'll do it ...
<flocculant> s/just because
<slickymasterWork> don't think it's just that
<flocculant> mmm
<slickymasterWork> for coherence sake wouldn't we have to the same with other packages as well? 
<flocculant> ok - well not getting into a protracted discussion about it tbh
<flocculant> I don't use the help file
<flocculant> up to docs team
<slickymasterWork> I know you're not :)
<slickymasterWork> I only think if it's dome to one, it would have to be done to the others
<flocculant> this is something that regularly comes up in #x 
<slickymasterWork> and the -docs would grow exponentially ~
<flocculant> right - well - I made the point - you do what you want with it
<slickymasterWork> but of course I'm open to a consensus 
<flocculant> next time I see someone looking for help with it I will ping you ;)
<slickymasterWork> no love for me then ;)
<flocculant> consensus is extremely unlikely to get anything done this side of release ;)
<slickymasterWork> ahhahaha
<flocculant> I always love you :D
<flocculant> ish
<slickymasterWork> lmao
<slickymasterWork> well, me too
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> my position on this - and probably other things if I put my mind to it is "if people regularly pitch up with similar issues - then our help file should cover it somehow'
<flocculant> pointing to an external entity is fine - if it actually helps :)
<slickymasterWork> I agree with that principle but my fear is if that wouldn't completely blow the -docs
<slickymasterWork> what I mean is that if we're going to start to add more meaningful info about some packages the -docs soon will became a colossus in size
<slickymasterWork> and readability for that matter 
<slickymasterWork> not speaking about the maintenance that it would bring with
<flocculant> this from the debian wiki " Pavucontrol, an optional package for pulseaudio, allows you to make volume adjustments (entire system or per application). It also allows you to change "mixer" settings like headphone output, mic level, input device, and stereo versus surround sound profiles. "
<flocculant> which is a whole lot more helpful than pointing to the pulseaudio site :p
<slickymasterWork> but that follows what I was suggesting/asking in the beginning
<flocculant> that's likely all we need do
<flocculant> by extend it a bit? 
<slickymasterWork> yep
<flocculant> yea - that's fine - we ended up discussing where we pointed people :D
<flocculant> I'll do an mp for it - faff about with wording and some bolding etc
<slickymasterWork> ok
<slickymasterWork> I was going to say that I was going to draft something
<flocculant> yea it's ok - I'll do that
<slickymasterWork> but bieng so
<slickymasterWork> s/bieng/being
<flocculant> done :)
<flocculant> bbl
<slickymasterWork> thanks flocculant 
<slickymasterWork> will review it after dinner
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: [pavucontrol] r643 Pavucontrol addition (by Kev Bowring)
<flocculant> slickymaster: np :)
<knome> flocculant, good idea and i see you already did something :)
<flocculant> heh
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: [bionic] r643 Merge flocculant's rewrite of the pavucontrol section in gui... (by David Pires)
#xubuntu-devel 2018-01-05
<ochosi> JackFrost, bluesabre: reminder, would be nice if you could push xfpm 1.6 to bionic
<ochosi> let's not wait too long with that, then i can at least still fix bugs
<JackFrost> He's figured out my new nick, gotta change it. :3
<ochosi> :)
<knome> ochosi, bluesabre: maybe we should draft a blog article and a mailing list mail to discuss gtk-theme-config and the improbability of it working with gtk3 along with a freeform poll: 1) do you use it? 2) which features? 3) which theme?
<ochosi> we can, but give me at least one more week to finish the prototype
<ochosi> if i find out it doesnt really work at all we can also skip the thread and just make an announcement that its dead
<knome> sure
<knome> part of the reason for this poll (and to do it anyway) is to see how many greybird users would benefit from it
<ochosi> even though greybird is adwaita based i currently cant say how well it will work
<ochosi> maybe very good, maybe not so :)
<knome> and with that comment i'm referring to our discussion for a greybird-specific tool
<knome> while it's not my life goal to make everybody use greybird, doing a gb-specific tool well would be one more reason to use it over other themes
<knome> (and it's still our default theme, so bonus points for that)
<knome> (or in other words, supporting theme configuring for our default theme but not the rest isn't ideal, but it's much better than nothing)
<ochosi> yeah, hmm, one more thing to maintain and update all the time...
<knome> i was thinking something in the sass-level
<knome> yes, it's one more thing to maintain, but...
<ochosi> i am working on a sass prototype
<knome> and as i said then (and i'm happy to repeat): it would be just fine if the tool created ~/.themes/greybird-customname when you created the color scheme
<ochosi> anything else is useless with gtkcss
<knome> i know
<ochosi> yeah, also an option, though not a great onr
<knome> well
<knome> it has that added bonus that then you can "save" a variety of color schemes
<ochosi> cause with an update your version may break
<knome> absolutely
<knome> then write a script for greybird package update that makes sure all of the color schemes are updated
<knome> i know this is just proposing more code...
<knome> but it's relatively trivial to do *that* bit at least
<ochosi> yuck, you writr and maintain that script please :)
<knome> sure
<knome> i mean
<knome> what other things does it have to do than just rewrite the custom theme from scratch with the users options?
<knome> i don't want to do a migration script or anything
<knome> just delete the old theme (which we are sure is one generated by our tool) and generate a new one with the same options
<knome> just like you'd create your config again in the UI
<ochosi> just look into colors.scss
<knome> sigh
<knome> i know
<knome> but that problem is either already fixed by the tool or not
<knome> we don't want to show the user 20 different color options to change
<knome> only some
<knome> right?
<ochosi> yeah, i meant: start looking into it
<knome> again this has nothing to do with the update script ;)
<ochosi> "a little less conversation a little more action" ;)
<knome> yeah sure...
<knome> this sounds like a copout but
<knome> i really have to go now
<ochosi> haha
<knome> i'll happily do something with this at some point
<ochosi> it does
<knome> we're going shopping with the whole family and meeting my mother
<knome> excuse accepted?
<ochosi> hehe, sure sure
<knome> ;)
<knome> ttyl
<knome> probably during the meeting today...
<ochosi> anyway, as i said, i'm 50% there
<knome> there was one at 22UTC, right?
<knome> i need an UTC clock back on my panel
<knome> ...
<knome> o/
<ochosi> yeah, tonight eill be hard for me
<ochosi> hf
<flocculant> oh - thanks for the reminder knome :p
<ochosi> unfortunately i dont know if ill make the meeting tonight, but it would be good to take a look at the status quo of our ppas and see what to promote to bionic until when, so we have a timeline
<ochosi> and in general just review the bps to see where more action is needed, so people get a poke
<flocculant> that looks busy - I was hoping for a #startmeeting - tumbleweed - #endmeeting
<flocculant> :P
<flocculant> ochosi: add stuff to the agenda - if you're not about and as long as it makes sense to - I'll deal iwht it
<akxwi-dave> thats easy flocculant , propose stuff we'll agree.. :-)
<flocculant> :)
<knome> i'll be around for the meeting most likely
<flocculant> okey
<knome> i mean unless the sky falls etc.
<knome> or i forget
<knome> :P
<flocculant> if we both forget - you can get away with it :D
<knome> :)
<flocculant> !team | meeting in 30 minutesish
<ubottu> meeting in 30 minutesish: team is akxwi-dave, bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
<flocculant> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Fri Jan  5 22:00:36 2018 UTC.  The chair is flocculant. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<flocculant> so then - who's here :)
<krytarik> o/
 * flocculant waits for tumbleweed :p
<knome> o/
<flocculant> we can go for it still if we think it's worth it - if not I'll just do an Announcement and finish :p
 * flocculant waits some more
<ochosi> still on my way, i'll be around in about 30 (sry)
<flocculant> can postpone for 30 if that helps 
<pleia2> o/
<flocculant> I'll move on then 
<flocculant> #topic Open action items
<ochosi> bbiab ->
<ochosi> (sry, don't irc and drive)
<flocculant> yup - we'll still be going perhaps
<flocculant> I know that one too :D
<ochosi> sure
<flocculant> bluesabre to change seed for GNOME/MATE apps transition before FDF  - that's done
<flocculant> flocculant to send a proposal on improving panel configuration - that isn't 
<knome> there's an xfce related task for me, let's talk later
<flocculant> and I'm not sure I've got time to look tbh - nor sure I've the energy to deal with the inertia
<knome> regarding panel conf that is
<flocculant> yea - I know
<flocculant> bluesabre and ochosi to get on with it and include xfpm 1.6 - not sure what the status is on that, from what ochosi said in channel recently I'm assuming not, so 
<flocculant> #action : bluesabre and ochosi to get on with it and include xfpm 1.6 
<meetingology> ACTION: : bluesabre and ochosi to get on with it and include xfpm 1.6
<flocculant> that's action items done
<flocculant> #topic Discussion
<flocculant> nothing on the agenda, but ...
<knome> maybe discuss it all under other then
<knome> get the bureaucratic things done
<flocculant> #subtopic Artful Point 1 iso
<flocculant> I've been waiting to see when this would appear
<flocculant> we've now got respun iso's to test to cover lp 1734147
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1734147 in linux (Ubuntu) "corrupted BIOS due to Intel SPI bug in kernel" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1734147
<flocculant> -release are planning to release next Thursday, 25th January
<pleia2> great
<flocculant> by the end of the weekend I will have mailed list(s) about that and done facebook
<flocculant> if others can do g+ and twitter then that'll be great
<pleia2> sure thing
<flocculant> thanks :)
<flocculant> pleia2: just a channel ping - or would you like an e-mail?
<pleia2> channel ping is fine
<flocculant> k
<flocculant> #subtopic 18.04 wallpaper contest
<flocculant> knome: you want to repeat what you just said in ot :p
<flocculant> oh - didn't see that action hiding at the bottom of the meeting page :p
<knome> yes, so i need one more testing day to make sure the changes in the plugin work as expected
<knome> after that we're free to open the contest right away
<knome> the announcement blog article and all other content is ready, thanks to flocculant and others
<flocculant> and I can volunteer to test stuff as required
<knome> yup
<knome> it also needs to be a day when i have time and energy ;)
<knome> but it will be sooner than later
<flocculant> yea ofc
<pleia2> if you can do this weekend, I'll be around, but work gets busy for me next week
<knome> weekend is hard, but let's see
<knome> maybe later on sunday my time
<knome> like 20UTC or so
<pleia2> ok :)
<pleia2> hm, that might be airport time
<pleia2> ah we'll see
<flocculant> I can be around then if you need knome 
<knome> well it's jiggly
<knome> i'd like a few people, but i'll announce
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> anything else on that now?
<knome> nope
<pleia2> thanks for getting that prepped, knome \o/
<knome> it's pretty much all ready except that testing
<knome> well, on announcish side
<knome> it can now hold any number of contests at the same time
<flocculant> that's cool
<knome> and archives neatly
<flocculant> :)
<knome> so that's improvements
<flocculant> ochosi wanted to go through a couple of things I believe, so I'll schedule and then we can resume
<flocculant> #topic Schedule next meeting
<flocculant> next up on the merry-go-round is ...
<flocculant> bluesabre \o/
<flocculant> #topic Discussion #2
<knome> winner
<knome> :)
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> everyone can now wander off to the foyer for some light refreshment - or the rest of their day - while we patiently see if Simon makes it here :)
<knome> :)
 * pleia2 beer o'clock
<flocculant> :)
<ochosi> beer o'clock already..?
<pleia2> east coast this week ;)
<flocculant> hi ochosi :)
<flocculant> #chair ochosi 
<meetingology> Current chairs: flocculant ochosi
<flocculant> not completely sure what you wanted to discuss - only half read them - so #topic away in your own time
<ochosi> so regarding xfpm, i've done my part and fixed the concerns that people mentioned and released 1.6.1 (which is a stable release, the 1.5 series was unstable/dev)
<ochosi> so what has to be done is packaging and uploading
<ochosi> so that action would be for bluesabre and Unit193 (aka JackFrost in the season)
<flocculant> #subtopic Xfpm
<flocculant> #action bluesabre JackFrost to package and upload xfpm
<meetingology> ACTION: bluesabre JackFrost to package and upload xfpm
<flocculant> like that :p
<ochosi> so there were some issues, namely xfpm support for desktops
<ochosi> and that has been implemented
<ochosi> plus i went through buzgilla and cleaned up a lot of reports and bugs
<ochosi> so 1.6.x should be fine
<ochosi> anyway
<ochosi> let's move one
<ochosi> on
<flocculant> ochosi: blueprints? 
<ochosi> #subtopic Other Xfce components/releases
<flocculant> ok :p
<ochosi> i've done another release of the panel (4.12.2) and i've been discussing another release of xfce4-settings with bluesabre
<ochosi> both will improve multi-monitor handling
<ochosi> so i think we should include them
<flocculant> I'd agree
<ochosi> for xfce4-settings, some testing may help
<ochosi> the patch has already been merged to the 4.12 branch
<ochosi> but it needs to be put in our staging PPA
<flocculant> many of the issues I read on 'forums' are multi-monitor
<ochosi> yeah, both of those patches help
<ochosi> one (panel) helps to keep the panel on the primary monitor, which you can define in xfce4-settings (xfce4-display-settings, to be exact)
<flocculant> ochosi: staging? that's now 'artful qa' 
<flocculant> or do you mean experimental? 
<flocculant> which is what I have
<ochosi> and the other one is in xfce4-settings and tries to keep displays in their position when disconnecting and reconnecting them
<ochosi> sry, i always get confused with the PPAs these days...
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> ochosi: I remeber the aging bit in staging and know I don't use it :D
<ochosi> aging bit?
<flocculant> st aging
<ochosi> ah lol
<ochosi> sry, i'm slooooow
<ochosi> beer o'clock and all
<flocculant> :)
<ochosi> so anyway, for the time being, we would need to package at least the settings update as a patch
<ochosi> debian patch that is
<ochosi> and put it in the experimental/aging PPAs
<flocculant> :)
<ochosi> and for the panel there's yet another patch that knome really wants and it's nice to have and not critical
<ochosi> it basically sorts the separator up at the top of the list along with "launcher" in the panel's "add item" dialog
<ochosi> i already pushed it to the 4.13 branch and may also push it to the 4.12 branch if there's going to be another maintenance release
<ochosi> i have to check if there is more to backport
<JackFrost> I have a mental note: experimental is where I push all the (fun) things, staging is what I upload to every time I upload something to unit193/xfce (Well...Almost.)
<ochosi> regarding the other components, here's what i see coming up:
<ochosi>  * potentially another xfce4-notifyd maintenance release
<flocculant> funny that knome wants seperator at the top of the list - I remove them from panel completely unless asked to check something
<ochosi>  * potentially a xfce4-taskmanager gtk3-only release (probably not many additional features)
<ochosi> flocculant: well the argument makes sense as it's one of the few plugins that you may wanna use multiple times (same as launcher)
<knome> ^ what ochosi said
<flocculant> yea - I can understand the argument for it
<ochosi>  * potentially a clipman maintenance release
<ochosi>  * if needed, another xfpm maintenance release
<flocculant> quite a lot then
<flocculant> nice :)
<ochosi> well that's just what i see coming, if we need more i need to knw
<ochosi> know
<ochosi> so i also wanted to bring up this topic so we can discuss what we want or need to focus on
<ochosi> i've been more active again upstream recently so i can try to get the most out of it for 18.04
<flocculant> 7 weeks to feature freeze I think
<flocculant> ochosi: these things I'm assuming you'd want testing?
<ochosi> mostly for taskman, the rest would be just maintenance/bugfix, so nothing too critical there
<flocculant> ok
<ochosi> but much depends on my own free time/energy
<flocculant> taskman doesn't seem to hard for testing
<flocculant> and yea - understood :)
<ochosi> yeah, it's fairly easy
<ochosi> libxfce4ui also needs a new version uploaded/tested
<flocculant> ochosi: is taskman actually available git?
<ochosi> although again, no dramatic changes
<ochosi> sure
<ochosi> https://git.xfce.org/apps/xfce4-taskmanager/
<flocculant> ok - I can grab that
<ochosi> i also have a development branch somewhere, where i dropped all the gtk2 ifdefs
<flocculant> and libxfce4ui there is one pending at the ppa
<flocculant> waiting for buildfarm to start I'm assuming
<JackFrost> I'm running that one now.
<flocculant> ochosi: well if there is a specific one you'd rather I used - point me to it and I will ofc
<ochosi> yeah, it should be fine, but we should also try to get it in
<ochosi> flocculant: will do as soon as i've cleaned it up. i had a branch with CSD/headerbar (which will make some ppl in here whine) and gtk3-only, i think that's where i want to continue
<flocculant> okey doke 
<ochosi> plus i'm wondering if we need other graphs there
<ochosi> or improved graphs
<ochosi> but we'll see
<flocculant> ping me when you want me to take a gander at it 
<ochosi> kewl, will do
<ochosi> ok, that's that subtopic from my side
<ochosi> JackFrost: anything to add?
<ochosi> anything you think needs updates?
<flocculant> ochosi: did you think more on that tooltips thing on taskmanager?
<JackFrost> I don't know what I'd be adding.
<flocculant> an #action 
<flocculant> :D
<flocculant> or an #info
<ochosi> flocculant: that'd be one thing i could/would fix, not sure if i'd do it in the current stable series
<flocculant> right
<ochosi> it has been like this for ages tbh
<ochosi> and the UI ways to fix this are not very gtk2-ish
<ochosi> but we'll see
<ochosi> maybe i can come up with a simple idea
<ochosi> the main thing is i want to avoid i18n
<flocculant> yea I guess so - it just hit me the other day when the mouse got left when I went to work and the tooltip was still there hours later :D
<ochosi> and fixing it without adding new strings sucks
<flocculant> :)
<ochosi> at least probably
<ochosi> but we'll see
<flocculant> want to move on ?
<flocculant> floor's still your one :p
<ochosi> JackFrost: dunno, if you feel there's a problem somewhere or bugs (like you raised concerns against xfpm 1.6)...
<ochosi> i myself need to make the jump to 18.04, i am lacking overview a little of what we have already changed...
<JackFrost> Yeah but that was a long time ago, so you either fixed them, couldn't fix them, or ignored them. :P
<ochosi> things like xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin vs. indicator-sound
<JackFrost> IIRC, one of the fixes was in elementary-xfce-icon-theme.
<ochosi> and whether to add xfce4-notification-plugin to the panel by default
<flocculant> mmm
<ochosi> JackFrost: alrighty, that's fine then. just want to avoid things falling through the cracks
<ochosi> or clipman-plugin
<flocculant> then I might try and find energy to do what I'd been actioned to do if you're going to look at panel
<ochosi> but that may be knome's topic from before
<JackFrost> xfce4-statusnotifier-plugin*, and yeah there's nothing wrong with that one, less fragile than xfce4-indicator-plugin+indicator-application.
<ochosi> yeah, xfce4-statusnotifier-plugin to
<ochosi> too
<ochosi> is all of that in our default session already?
<flocculant> ochosi: can we make that an #action (panel that is)
<JackFrost> Yes, I believe so.
<ochosi> flocculant: you mean the panel config?
<flocculant> yea
<ochosi> knome: is that what you wanted to discuss earlier..?
<flocculant> I was going to look at one thing - but if it's more general then it can be more than 1 person :p
<ochosi> yeah, just want to make sure now
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> if we're adding things - then the thing I was ignoring is more useful maybe :)
<ochosi> we should be replacing xfce4-indicator-plugin and indicator-application with xfce4-statusnotifier-plugin
<ochosi> and indicator-sound with xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin
<knome> ochosi, outside the meeting, yes
<ochosi> and should be discussing whether to keep indicator-messages
<ochosi> and whether to add things like clipman or notifyd
<ochosi> knome: ok, then let's do that later
<ochosi> i'm fine with moving on then
<JackFrost> Eh, nah don't add them.
<flocculant> ochosi: that's never really worked for me - but then I never use anything (other than tbird) which lived there
<knome> ochosi, and it was basically only needed between me and flocculant too :)
<JackFrost> flocculant: Pidgin works with it, which we ship.
<flocculant> ochosi: move on then :)
<ochosi> yeah, it's pidgin and thunderbird
<ochosi> anyway, let's move on
<flocculant> JackFrost: right - 'then I never use anything' was where I was going there
<ochosi> i have one last topic, and then i pass the floor back to you gusy
<ochosi> guys
<ochosi> #subtopic gtk-theme-config status quo
<flocculant> right 
<ochosi> so currently gtk-theme-config is broken and useless (fairly)
<flocculant> this stuff between you 2 I did read :p
<ochosi> it works ok for gtk2 but not at all reliably with gtk3
<ochosi> so i started an investigation into whether it can be fixed
<ochosi> in the generic way that it was working before
<ochosi> for "most themes"
<ochosi> i'm somewhere between 30 and 50% there
<ochosi> hard to judge
<ochosi> and i can't say what the outcome will be
<ochosi> but in general it's possible that we may need to drop it
<ochosi> it's also possible that it will be hard to rewrite until FF
<flocculant> and which freeze do we need to decide by?
<flocculant> FF I assume?
<ochosi> or alternatively it may only work with "some themes" and we will have to decide whether that's "enough"
<ochosi> the problem is that it's hard to test
<flocculant> mmm
<flocculant> point
<ochosi> latest FF
<ochosi> point is we need to keep it on our radar a bit
<flocculant> that's like saying that we have a text editor that sometimes works 
<ochosi> but anyway, i will keep you updated about my progress
<flocculant> soory - meant I had a point :p
<ochosi> well it's not as critical as a text editor luckily :)
<ochosi> but yeah, it's a bit of a can of worms
<ochosi> partly due to the complexity of gtk theming
<flocculant> if we had something else we knew 'sometimes' worked - we'd likely ditch it - especially on something for 3 years
<ochosi> anyway, we'll see
<flocculant> yea I understood that much
<ochosi> just wanted to get everyone on the same page
<flocculant> yup
<ochosi> there are still quite a few open issues on all blueprints btw
<ochosi> that could either be the next topic or we discuss it offline and move on
<flocculant> worst case scenario from my pov is we lose it 'now' but it makes a triumphant return between LTS's :p
<JackFrost> Also, I've been going with "Wait and see" with xfce4-indicator-plugin from Debian, but since it's not really part of the desktop so much anymore, I'd like to just sync it and say "bummer" to the ones not using ayatana indicators.
<ochosi> right
<flocculant> ochosi: yup - probably need to be more proactive at not gapping meetings by weeks then
<ochosi> JackFrost: that's ok if it's not in our default session anymore imo
<JackFrost> Well, not great for upgrades at all, but..
<ochosi> i agree
<flocculant> I'm happy for it to be next topic if others want to btw ochosi 
<ochosi> flocculant: yeah, but you know, life... i just don't have enough time :/
<flocculant> oh right
<flocculant> if you want to move on to sleep we can do it another time :)
<flocculant> I was meaning I'm in no hurry to #endmeeting
<ochosi> right, just wanted to make sure no-one else is
<flocculant> :)
<ochosi> since we're already 25mins over the scheduled time
<flocculant> well that's only some historical thing :)
<flocculant> when everyone is drained or gone and I'm here alone I'll end meeting :D
 * ochosi goes to the loo to return and find out if anyone else is still awake
<flocculant> ochosi: if you've time now to 'say' things then go for it - if nothing else it gets minuted
<JackFrost> Right, so I'll sync it, unless bluesabre says otherwise.
<ochosi> #topic blueprints status
<ochosi> #subtopic devel blueprint
<ochosi> so what i see there are some things that are stuck at packaging level
<ochosi> regarding elementary-xfce i think everything that needed to be done at source level has been done
<ochosi> it just needs the packaging updates to be carried out too
<ochosi> regarding parole, don't think that's going to happen this cycle (again)
<ochosi> too busy with xfce 4.14
<flocculant> should be blocked I guess
<ochosi> and pidgin, that depends on bluesabre's time, but tbh i'm sceptical as it would probably have to go through upstream
<ochosi> or postponed..
<flocculant> :)
<ochosi> regarding xubuntu-core, JackFrost?
<ochosi> appstream could be low-hanging fruit for almost everyone, i personally know i don't have the time
<ochosi> the mate packaging things also seem a little stuck
<ochosi> gtk-theme-config is in progress, thunar custom actions is a little stuck (cause i'm afraid of not finding generic enough solutions without adding depends)
<bluesabre> I'm here now
<flocculant> hi bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hi flocculant 
<ochosi> welcome to the party :)
<flocculant> ochosi: I assume the Mate stuff is also waiting on others
<bluesabre> flocculant: indeed, got moved to the mate packaging team in debian and died
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> so some of that bp stuff is just not up to date then 
<flocculant> normal enough :)
<bluesabre> I'll try to make some updates to those soon
<flocculant> ochosi: as far as the core stuff goes - I think it only goes only the list because stubborn xubuntu 
<flocculant> bluesabre: wasn't pointing fingers :(
<bluesabre> flocculant: I have a menulibre release right around the corner, hoping you and others might be able to kick the tires
<flocculant> bluesabre: ofc
<flocculant> and if it fixes things - I'll try and reproduce ... 
<flocculant> often I can't 
<ochosi> bluesabre: i think something like a "release radar" would help
<ochosi> to know what'll come up soon
<flocculant> that could be some awesome page at dev.x.o
<JackFrost> bluesabre: ACK syncing xfce4-indicator-plugin from Debian, perhaps breaking upgrades?
<flocculant> ochosi: like the qa one - which you can just type things to
<bluesabre> JackFrost: yeah, let's go ahead with that
<bluesabre> We can figure out how to minimize damages as we go
<JackFrost> xfce4-power-manager (1.6.1-1) UNRELEASED  is actually in experimental vcs.
<flocculant> what's the story with fonts?
<flocculant> people were getting exercised about that iirc
<knome> probably pending on my time
<flocculant> k
<flocculant> more on that bp?
<bluesabre> flocculant: the fonts is related to the surprising tons of fonts they added to all flavors and main at the tail end of 17.10
<flocculant> yea I know
<bluesabre> we had hoped to reduce that clutter
<flocculant> right
<ochosi> bluesabre: chances of pidgin stuff to happen this cycle..?
<flocculant> I know I trimmed a whole bunch out locally - then at some point I let and update in and they all came back 
<JackFrost> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-indicator-plugin/2.3.3-1
 * flocculant remembers now - I'd lost some xubuntu-foo with a ppa:purge and they came back then
<bluesabre> ochosi: still at a maybe, but time is running out
<ochosi> that's why i'm asking :)
<flocculant> *point*
<flocculant> at this place - ~7 weeks to FF, maybe we could be knowing which we'll ignore
<flocculant> well not we - you all :p
<bluesabre> right
<bluesabre> Still not sure of the full code requirement, could be minutes, could be hours
<bluesabre> There's got to be some reason that feature doesn't yet exist
<flocculant> it's gnome?
<flocculant> :p
<ochosi> maybe ask upstream before you pour hours into it?
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> Will reach out to see what the consensus is... no need to build a patch if upstream doesn't want it
<ochosi> an email to their ml or a ping in their channel may suffice
<bluesabre> sure thing
<bluesabre> #action bluesabre to reach out to pidgin devs regarding system themes
<meetingology> ACTION: bluesabre to reach out to pidgin devs regarding system themes
<flocculant> timeout bug on that bp is set wishlist
#xubuntu-devel 2018-01-06
<flocculant> I guess dev.xo. ignores importance?
<flocculant> knome: ^^
<knome> hmm...
<knome> importance on what specific work item?
<flocculant> well - I guess what I mean is if importance is wishlist, could be ignored
<flocculant> a bug
<knome> right...
<knome> i guess so
<knome> :)
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> anything else from you bluesabre on the previous topics?
<ochosi> there were some packaging questions (dunno if you read the backlog)
<ochosi> otherwise we can also close the meeting
<bluesabre> ochosi: not yet, haven't had a chance to catch up
<flocculant> :)
<bluesabre> elementary-xfce we'll fix on the the package release
<bluesabre> ochosi: I'll be sending you some icons I'm interested in pulling in
<bluesabre> ready for xfpm
<ochosi> sure
<bluesabre> ready for ind-plug
<ochosi> sounds good
<bluesabre> anything else anybody needs from me?
<flocculant> bluesabre: not me :)
<flocculant> go eat :D
<flocculant> or sleep or whatever ;)
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> already eating
<flocculant> bluesabre: quickly - not sure if you saw but iso's up for artful point release
<bluesabre> flocculant: that's good
<flocculant> apparently so ;)
<bluesabre> are they being released immediately or do we have a few days for spot checks?
<flocculant> thursday next
<bluesabre> great
<flocculant> I'll be calling over weekend for testing
<flocculant> just seen 17.04 EOL week tomorrow
<flocculant> I'll mail that too
<flocculant> and draft on x.org
<bluesabre> nice
<bluesabre> busy time :)
<flocculant> #action flocculant to mail list(s) re 17.04 EOL and draft blog post
<meetingology> ACTION: flocculant to mail list(s) re 17.04 EOL and draft blog post
<flocculant> hah
<flocculant> well - check the QA bp :D
 * flocculant closes meeting then
<flocculant> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Sat Jan  6 00:12:22 2018 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2018/xubuntu-devel.2018-01-05-22.00.moin.txt
<bluesabre> thanks flocculant 
<JackFrost> flocculant: Any progress on Debian #884587 or moving at-spi2-core from atril's Depends to recommends?  I don't see anything in git.
<ubottu> Debian bug 884587 in engrampa "engrampa: Drop unused dependencies for lighter installation requirements" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/884587
<flocculant> and goes to bed "To die, to sleep - to sleep, perchance to dream ..."
<JackFrost> https://github.com/mate-desktop/mate-calc/issues/42 is filed.
<flocculant> JackFrost: I think that's the one bluesabre mentioned - eg moved upstream, now dead
<flocculant> could be wrong though
<flocculant> night all :)
<JackFrost> flocculant: I tabbed wrong.
<flocculant> :)
<JackFrost> flexiondotorg: Any progress on Debian #884587 or moving at-spi2-core from atril's Depends to recommends?  I don't see anything in git.
<ubottu> Debian bug 884587 in engrampa "engrampa: Drop unused dependencies for lighter installation requirements" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/884587
<flocculant> you meant Martin then :D
<JackFrost> Yeeep!
<bluesabre> :D
<flexiondotorg> JackFrost: Thanks for the ping. I'll look at that over the weekend.
<JackFrost> flexiondotorg: Thanks muchly.
<flocculant> back in the day it was elky I was tab failed on
<flocculant> hi flexiondotorg - and good night :)
<flexiondotorg> JackFrost: why is at-spi2-core an issue?
<ochosi> night everyone
<JackFrost> flexiondotorg: It really shouldn't be a depend, it should be removable.  Not even GNOME stuff depends on it.
<JackFrost> (It's just an accessibility daemon.)
<knome> flocculant, just set 11th as the EOL date for 17.04 so documentation link should disappear automatically
<knome> and with that i'm off for the day
<knome> nighty and thanks for chairing the meeting flocculant 
<bluesabre> nighty knome
<knome> and bluesabre too o/
<knome> -->
<flocculant> knome: thanks :)
<flocculant> knome pleia2 - eol notice done on fb, also done the testing call there - if we could get them on twitter and g+1 that'd be great :)
<flocculant> and I wish I'd checked that the iso was actually downloadable - all flavour's iso give a 404 lol
<JackFrost> \o/
<JackFrost> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/artful/daily-live/current/
<flocculant> that's ok - except everyone points to the tracker :D
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> definitely something awry with the bionic iso - artful boots in vm at expected speed 
<flocculant> helpful today :)
<pleia2> flocculant: thanks, on it :)
<pleia2> hm, awkward that 17.04 is being EOL when the fix for 17.10 hasn't landed yet
<pleia2> flocculant: FB says February 18, but the notices say Feb 13
<pleia2> err, January
<pleia2> what month is it, what year is it
<flocculant> pleia2: changed it to 13th - thanks :)
<flocculant> and fix for 17.10 is around - pretty sure it's just updated kernel
<pleia2> I see "Fix Released" on the 17.10 kernel bug, did it get fixed?
<pleia2> oh ok, and we'll update the website when the respins of the ISOs with the right kernel are out, right?
<flocculant> yea - that was my plan 
<pleia2> just concerned about telling people to upgrade in case they use the ISO and run into BIOS problems
<pleia2> maybe I can just say "do an in-place upgrade" or sth
<pleia2> and there are still people who do a full reinstall with every release /o\
<flocculant> I guess 
<flocculant> if people go to grab iso - they should see the warning
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> ok, twitter updated for EOL, I'll do the testing one a little later
<flocculant> yup - thanks :)
<pleia2> ok, that's G+ too
<flocculant> :)
<pleia2> ok, testing tweets/g+ done now too
<flocculant> thanks pleia2 :)
#xubuntu-devel 2018-01-07
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r540 Update readme with correct project URL... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
<flocculant> ochosi: it's not - see it in artful, bionic and my frankenstein version
<ochosi> flocculant: what is not?
<flocculant> the clear icon, bug 1644917 - sorry for the vagueness
<ubottu> bug 1644917 in xfce4-indicator-plugin (Ubuntu) "Label missing from indicator-plugin clear option" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1644917
<flocculant> screenshots for them all there
<ochosi> "great", so it was merged but never release probably
<flocculant> ok - just thought I'd say after your comment on the bug :)
<ochosi> k, guess i will have to release a new version then
<ochosi> since andrzejr doesn't seem to be around
<ochosi> but it sucks a little, because we'll switch away from it anyway
<flocculant> mmm
<ochosi> and i dunno if anybody will care enough to sync that back to 16.04 now that we're approaching 18.04...
<flocculant> not sure about in 16.04
<flocculant> lemme check
<flocculant> yea - fail there, not sure it's sru material though tbh
<ochosi> yup
<flocculant> not many people mark it affecting
<ochosi> maybe still worth releasing upstream so other distros benefit
<ochosi> not many notice it
<flocculant> yea ofc
<ochosi> it's a fairly hidden dialog
<flocculant> indeed :)
<flocculant> bbl - motorbike maintenance ...
<ochosi> bluesabre: mind reviewing https://code.launchpad.net/~samuel-thibault/lightdm-gtk-greeter/at-spi-bus/+merge/335523 ?
<ochosi> bluesabre: i read through the bugreport and the code change seems uninvasive and a meaningful cleanup when the greeter is closed...
<ochosi> bluesabre: plus we will have to patch xfdesktop if we want the "user wallpaper at greeter" to continue to work in 18.04: https://code.launchpad.net/~robert-ancell/unity-settings-daemon/accountsservice-background/+merge/335431
<ochosi> bluesabre: because lightdm changed its method https://github.com/CanonicalLtd/lightdm/commit/6015bce25f241e7580c03594d846769f8236232f
<JackFrost> Oh finally!  Nice.
<JackFrost> ochosi: If someone releases a new ind-plug, should port to ayatana first as the other ones are Ubuntu only.
<ochosi> yeah meh
<ochosi> not sure why anyone would do that if there's statusnotifier
<ochosi> maybe it's simply time to retire it
<JackFrost> indicator-application isn't the only one...sn-plug only replaces that one.
<JackFrost> (Also the "port" is simply rename.)
<JackFrost> I don't suppose now that lightdm is using a more global method, the xfdesktop version could be upstreamed? :>
<flocculant> !team - done smoketests for the artful .1 release, would be good if others can do some if possible
<ubottu> flocculant: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<ochosi> JackFrost: indeed, it could
<bluesabre> JackFrost: don't suppose you know if the builders are back online? Hoping to get some new builds at https://code.launchpad.net/~menulibre-dev/+recipe/menulibre-daily for folks to try
<bluesabre> ochosi: will try to look at those today
<flocculant> bluesabre: don't think they are - things I'm expecting aren't built :)
<JackFrost> bluesabre: Early next week at the earliest.
<bluesabre> JackFrost: shew
<bluesabre> flocculant: since the builders are down, if you want to test out menulibre's recent changes:
<bluesabre> sudo apt build-dep menulibre
<bluesabre> bzr branch lp:menulibre
<bluesabre> cd menulibre
<bluesabre> sudo python3 setup.py install
<bluesabre> /usr/local/bin/menulibre
<flocculant> bluesabre: you got a camera in here knowing when I've actually sat at the pc?
<bluesabre> flocculant: we don't talk about the camera
<flocculant> ha ha 
<bluesabre> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~menulibre-dev/menulibre/master/revision/430 summarizes the changes for the upcoming release
<flocculant> ahah - that saves me asking the what for :D
<flocculant> I'll take a look :)
<bluesabre> flocculant: much appreciated!
<flocculant> doesn't like some desktop files :p
<bluesabre> Indeed, but now it tells you why :)
<flocculant> yea :D
<flocculant> bluesabre: in the log 3 icons - folder, txt editor and something else - what's the something else supposed to do?
<bluesabre> flocculant: the third icon copies the path to the clipboard
<bluesabre> the clipboard icon probably makes more sense there
<flocculant> aah ok
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> there is no standard clipboard icon
<bluesabre> that seems silly
<flocculant> seems silly to expect something to be standard :p
<bluesabre> That's fair
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: got an issue ...
<knome> only one?
<flocculant> created a test folder - in games, added launcher - saved it, wasn't saved in games, tried to delete it - that worked but the delete dialogue won't buggar off ...
<bluesabre> flocculant: neat
<bluesabre> anything interesting in the terminal?
<flocculant> terminal says
<flocculant> TypeError: expected str, bytes or os.PathLike object, not NoneType
<knome> :)
<bluesabre> nice
<bluesabre> Checking it out
<flocculant> whole bunch of stuff in terminal - ignorign the gtk warnings
<flocculant> https://paste.ubuntu.com/26341044/
<bluesabre> flocculant: care to paste all the terminal output somewhere?
<bluesabre> aren't you awesome
<flocculant> I try :p
<bluesabre> flocculant: if you bzr pull and run the installer again, I think things may run smoother for you
<flocculant> bluesabre: ok - delete works now :p
<flocculant> not got huge time to play this evening - but how do I add a directory in an existing one?
<flocculant> and now it doesn't
<flocculant> delete not working that is
<bluesabre> flocculant: open the directory and click on something inside, then add directory
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> terminal output?
<bluesabre> I should probably make it possible to add subdir on empty dirs
<flocculant> https://paste.ubuntu.com/26341237/
<flocculant> ftr here bzr pull had a conflict so I just removed it and grabbed it again
<flocculant> biab
<flocculant> will have another look later if you say so :)
<flocculant> \o/
<flocculant> ctrl+alt+esc on menulibre took out the irssi terminal :p
<JackFrost> bluesabre: Well, depending on when you count "next week"  Eg, next few days.
<bluesabre> flocculant: pushed another maybe-fix
<bluesabre> JackFrost: cool
<ochosi> bluesabre: standard clipboard icon is edit-paste
<bluesabre> ochosi: yeah, not quite the right context, https://i.imgur.com/0tyCcYE.png copying filename to clip using edit-copy in this case
<ochosi> is that a gtktreeview or a gtklistbox?
<bluesabre> treeview
<ochosi> and agreed, edit-paste may not seem correct
<ochosi> nice, i guess i should use treeviews more, they're much more efficient... but i'm lazy...
<flocculant> bluesabre: I'll look tomorrow - don't know if it's my end of weekness or something up with it when I try things :p
<bluesabre> flocculant: I consider it a gift for finding bugs
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> night all
<ochosi> night flocculant 
#xubuntu-devel 2019-01-01
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-panel 4.13.4 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-panel-4-13-4-released-tp52366.html (by Simon Steinbeiss)
#xubuntu-devel 2019-01-03
<tracker1> hello, is this the right place to ask a question about panel plugins?
<tracker1> Following the guideline at https://wiki.xfce.org/dev/howto/panel_plugins I cannot seem to add my panel to the "Add items" list
<tracker1> although following the exact steps stated in "Testing and Releasing the plugin" section
<brainwash> tracker1: you want #xfce-dev
<brainwash> this channel is for xubuntu development
<tracker1> im sorry! thank you
#xubuntu-devel 2019-01-04
<brainwash> bluesabre: are you going to update panel + greybird to fix the bug in 18.10?
#xubuntu-devel 2019-01-05
<JackFrost> Debian #918199 \o/
<ubottu> Debian bug 918199 in ftp.debian.org "RM: libxfcegui4 -- ROM; deprecated upstream, no reverse dependencies" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/918199
<ochosi> JackFrost: finally
<JackFrost> ochosi: you at least testing the gsettings backend? :3
<ochosi> JackFrost: nope, don't have much time for playing with anything these days
#xubuntu-devel 2019-12-30
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- Reminder: Next meeting chair is ochosi
<albinard> Installed Xubuntu Core 20.04 ISO of 12/28 on HP p7-1010, AMD64, BIOS, 6GB RAM.  Installed smoothly, runs well, Suspends and Resumes well, looks like a Daily Driver.
<ochosi> nice
<JackFrost> \o/
#xubuntu-devel 2020-01-01
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: catfish 1.4.12 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-catfish-1-4-12-released-tp56903.html (by Sean Davis-6)
<bluesabre> JackFrost: if the catfish sponsorship is still available, I have 1.4.12 ready to go at https://salsa.debian.org/python-team/applications/catfish :)
#xubuntu-devel 2020-01-02
<ochosi> bluesabre: oh nice, gs and wayland support
<JackFrost> bluesabre: Howdy.  Yeah I can do so, if you haven't found someone already.  You could likely drop Jackson off uploaders now, he's been dropped off of other things.
<bluesabre> oh yeah
<bluesabre> JackFrost: removed
#xubuntu-devel 2020-01-03
<JackFrost> Alrighty, test building then will push.
<JackFrost> I: pybuild base:217: python3.7 setup.py clean â ValueError: Namespace Gtk not available, E: pybuild pybuild:341: clean: plugin distutils failed with: exit code=1: python3.7 setup.py clean
<JackFrost> bluesabre: Introducing some ping for the catfish ftbfs due to cleaning errors.
<bluesabre> D:
<bluesabre> pybuild gets more and more strict every year
<JackFrost> FWIW, this also fails on bionic chroot. :>
<bluesabre> :\
<bluesabre> JackFrost: what's the build process? I don't think I've ever seen my packages run clean
<JackFrost> dpkg-buildpackage -nc -sa -S && sudo DIST=unstable pbuilder build ../catfish*dsc  is what I do.
<JackFrost> debuild -tc -sa -S  if using the current system.
<bluesabre> shew, that's different than what I've been doing
<JackFrost> ...What *have* you been doing?
<JackFrost> Note: normally I'd do pdebuild, but due to the clean target that won't work, so I use -n(o)c(lean) so it doesn't run that.
<bluesabre> `gbp buildpackage` or `debuild -S -sa && pbuilder-dist eoan build ../*.dsc`
<JackFrost> That latter one should certainly equate to my command.
<bluesabre> Running now for a sanity check
<bluesabre> Well, how about that
<bluesabre> Wonder what changed :\
<bluesabre> I wonder if python-gi-dev stopped pulling some important bits
<JackFrost> +from catfish_lib.catfishconfig import __version__, __url__
<bluesabre> ahhhh
<JackFrost> That's a random guess.
<bluesabre> Probably a good one
<bluesabre> Welp, guess I have another catfish release to put together
<JackFrost> git diff d140421e5cfffd94c41b574b3833ececab453ecd..30616bab0807a894def8d6d51f48aee3d95a6dec setup.py
<bluesabre> Sorry for wasting your time JackFrost 
<JackFrost> bluesabre: That's OK.  I did get to confirm that, though.
<JackFrost> You *could* just build-depend on them too. :3
<JackFrost> bluesabre: Did you see the format that Corsac is now using for watchfiles, btw?
<bluesabre> JackFrost: Nope, just saw the most recent one you were using
<JackFrost> https://salsa.debian.org/xfce-team/desktop/xfce4-terminal/commit/01a5232d3eb408630fc85ca62c0d0caa1c6196e2
<bluesabre> oh, that's nice
#xubuntu-devel 2020-01-04
<ochosi> let's see if that bot finally shuts up now...
<JackFrost> Hmm?
#xubuntu-devel 2020-01-05
<ochosi> JackFrost: the meeting reminder
<JackFrost> I mean, if it's annoying then I can disable it. :)
<ochosi> no, obviously it works
<ondapc> Any chance we can include gufw to the final build?
<ondapc> Also use synaptic as apposed to the software installer?
