#ubuntu-marketing 2006-11-20
<mhoot> hi everyone
<Burgundavia> hey mhoot
<mhoot> hey Burgundavia - how are ya? :)
<Burgundavia> not bad
<mhoot> glad to hear it!
* mode/#ubuntu-marketing [+o nixternal]  by ChanServ
<nixternal> heh
* mode/#ubuntu-marketing [-o nixternal]  by ChanServ
<tonyyarusso>  That was ominousish
<nixternal> i was messing with a scrip tand it did /quote chanserv op all
<tonyyarusso> ah
<lotusleaf> Madpilot: boing
<Madpilot> Mrh?
<Burgundavia> Madpilot: evening
<Madpilot> hi all
<lotusleaf> any musicians?
<lotusleaf> we should get someone to put music to Madpilot's pending posse poster
<lotusleaf> get something fresh and youtube it
<lotusleaf> I rolled the current posters into .zips, after discovering a lot of people direct linking to load the large .png on their site around the world. :P Added links to inkscape so the windows retar^H^h^h^h^h users know how to print them
<lotusleaf> someone said they shot out e-mails to some boingboing peeps, hoping it will make boingboing's frontpage, too, eventually.
<poningru> lotusleaf: supposedly it will make it monday... but no guarentees
<lotusleaf> poningru: awesome, thx =)
<lotusleaf> poningru: hey, at least it made digg :)
<lotusleaf> but boingboing has some slammin traffic
<poningru> I think digg has more traffic than boingboing
<lotusleaf> poningru: really? a varied audience between them though I'd imagine
<poningru> true
<lotusleaf> does digg have public traffic stats?
<poningru> boingboing is more normal/artsy audience than digg
<poningru> which is more techy imho
<lotusleaf> boingboing does via awstats link on their front page
<poningru> nothing to back all of that up though
<lotusleaf> poningru: right, which is the definite audience to appeal to! :)
<poningru> too true
<lotusleaf> the mole people already know what's going on in tech
<poningru> hehe yeah
<poningru> is there is an ubuntu embedded irc channel?
<lotusleaf> good question, dunno
<tonyyarusso> I'm not aware of one - yet
<tonyyarusso> lotusleaf: I would be offended that you called us "mole people"...if I had left the house all weekend.
<poningru> rofl
<lotusleaf> *<:O)
<poningru> ot: I was thinking lets startup a ubuntu for ps3 thing just like fc5
<lotusleaf> poningru: cool, no one's jumped on that yet?
<poningru> dont think so
<poningru> not sure...
<Madpilot> lotusleaf, can you handle ~150Kb of attachements to your email address? Got the 'SABDFL has a posse' done.
<Madpilot> should I do 'Mark has a posse' too, given that 'SABDFL' is a bit of an in-joke for Ubuntu?
<Burgundavia> yes
<lotusleaf> Madpilot: yeah!
<poningru> uh... no
<poningru> sabdfl only...
<poningru> cause then people will try to figure out what that is
<poningru> viral marketing and all that
<lotusleaf> poningru: good idea
<Madpilot> OK, in-joke only. ;) SVG & PNG inbound, lotusleaf
<lotusleaf> Madpilot: roger that
<lotusleaf> Madpilot: are these works in progress or material for posting? If the latter, I'll have it up in a few shakes of a lizard's drip
<Madpilot> these are postable
<Madpilot> ...a lizard's what???
<lotusleaf> cool, I'm on it..
<Madpilot> sent to your tuxfamily email, lotusleaf
<lotusleaf> Madpilot: thx
<Madpilot> I just learned that 'wirelizard.ca' is available, as a URL. Too bad Canadian domains are so flippin' expensive to register...
<lotusleaf> Madpilot: got it, gonna slap it together in a .zip w/ thumbnail preview and up it to the site, will be a few =)
<lotusleaf> is there a readme included?
<Madpilot> yes
<lotusleaf> cool, thx
<Madpilot> three files, SVG, PNG, updated readme.
<Burgundavia> Madpilot: your machine edgy or dapper?
<Madpilot> Burgundavia, Dapper
<poningru> :(
<Burgundavia> can you do open add/remove and search for "nvidia" for me?
<Madpilot> Sysinfo & Trigger - a racing game - are the only two results
<Burgundavia> hmm
<elkbuntu> no idea why i havent shown you guys this before, and dont go publishing this as an 'ooh look here' link but stats for the ubuntucounter are at http://ubuntucounter.org/awstats/awstats.pl
<Burgundavia> elkbuntu: wow, 63% still on windows eh?
<elkbuntu> Burgundavia, yeah, those are the ones inadvertantly seeing the buttons, mainly
<Burgundavia> ah
<elkbuntu> the browser figures compared to the OS figures is cool though
<Burgundavia> yep
<Burgundavia> I want official download numbers
<Burgundavia> I pinged Jane awhile back but have not heard anything recently
<elkbuntu> allegedly, kubuntu is on-par or higher than ubuntu :|
<elkbuntu> from what i've been told
<Burgundavia> interesting
<elkbuntu> the counter results show a different story
<Burgundavia> so does distrowatch
<Burgundavia> but then again, online polls usually show 60/40 KDE/GNOME
<elkbuntu> yeah
<Madpilot> that's because KDE users are noisier ;)
<elkbuntu> Madpilot, if that were the case, i'd have lots more kubuntu users registered
<Madpilot> heh. what is the rough Gnome/KDE/XFCE/other breakdown on the counter, elkbuntu?
<elkbuntu> http://ubuntucounter.org
<tonyyarusso> elkbuntu: Wait, are your results published now?
<elkbuntu> tonyyarusso, no.
<nixternal> busy tonight ey
<elkbuntu> counter != surveys
<tonyyarusso> Doh.  I knew that
<Burgundavia> elkbuntu: you should email all those hoary and warty users and warn them that they are running unsupported versions of Ubuntu
<elkbuntu> hehe. tempting, but i'd rather not
<Burgundavia> why not? I would consider it is a public service
<elkbuntu> that'd be like.. effort
<Burgundavia> then give me access to the db
<elkbuntu> can i trust you with 10k email addresses?
<Burgundavia> the only thing I would do to them would be autosign them up to ubuntu-news :0
<Burgundavia> :)
<poningru> rofl
<Burgundavia> and then maybe feed thme into Userful's spaminator
<poningru> elkbuntu: do you have a privacy policy on your website?
<poningru> ;)
<poningru> elkbuntu: did I thank you properly for that post the other day?
<elkbuntu> poningru, yes, and i dont remember
<elkbuntu> <jono> oh and, you bastard! <-- but jono did
<tonyyarusso> Burgundavia: Say, what's your stickers status?
<Burgundavia> ah, crappers
<Burgundavia> I keep meanign to write that letter
<Burgundavia> let me delete some more wiki pages and then I will get to it
<tonyyarusso> Sure - whatcha deleting?
<poningru> bwhahahha
* poningru writes note to self reminding him to get involved in marketing and doc this time around
<Burgundavia> clearing out crurft from the help wiki
<Burgundavia> mostly via deletion
<Burgundavia> man, this is fun
<Madpilot> exercising your destructive urges?
<lotusleaf> Madpilot: I'd like to place external links on the page wherever it says Madpilot, where would you like them to go?
<Madpilot> lotusleaf, for now, send them to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Madpilot
<lotusleaf> Madpilot: done, thanks
<Burgundavia> Madpilot: pretty much
<lotusleaf> finishing this up, few more mins
<lotusleaf> Madpilot: any way to make a png with transparent background look good reduced ? I tried as png but it degrades in quality, as jpg it just turns a solid black color
<Madpilot> lotusleaf, sorry, I forgot to add a white background to the 'posse' image. Give me 5, I'll redo & resend them
<lotusleaf> Madpilot: thx :)
* tonyyarusso is in a deleting mood too
<tonyyarusso> I'm purging hundreds of FF bookmarks
<lotusleaf> Madpilot: which are you resending, just the png?
<Madpilot> lotusleaf, both
<lotusleaf> Madpilot: k
<lotusleaf> "<elkbuntu> no idea why i havent shown you guys this before, and dont go publishing this as an 'ooh look here' link but stats for the ubuntucounter are" now available when google indexes the logs directory =) woo! thx
<lotusleaf> people are still using warty?
<lotusleaf> Madpilot: ding dong, a special delivery has arrived, thx
<elkbuntu> lotusleaf, yes, but it's not 'ooh look'
<lotusleaf> elkbuntu: :)
<lotusleaf> Madpilot: looks very nice!
<elkbuntu> its not like it is being brought to everyone's attention only to lure morons trying to sway the stats
<lotusleaf> elkbuntu: exactly
<lotusleaf> like a certain other distro did with firefox and distrowatch, anyway that's ot. ;)
<elkbuntu> yeah
<lotusleaf> Madpilot: posted, plz check links & md5sums for indy verification thx
<poningru> who did what now?
<lotusleaf> poningru: new poster by Madpilot is up @ http://lotusleafslinks.tuxfamily.org/obeyubuntu/
<lotusleaf> poningru: sabdfl has a posse ;)
<Madpilot> lotusleaf, all seems to work, cool
<lotusleaf> Madpilot: md5's too? great, thanks, and nice work :)
<Madpilot> didn't bother checking the md5s, just the rest
<poningru> woah awesome
* poningru thinks about printing up stickers for those
<lotusleaf> poningru: ;)
<lotusleaf> an excellent idea
<poningru> yeah and plaster campus with it
<lotusleaf> would look nice on my boxes
<poningru> I really think that should replace the ubuntu buttons
<Madpilot> lotusleaf, this is the font used on the roughcut posters: http://www.dafont.com/dirty-headline.font
<elkbuntu> the posse one would do good as a 10x10 sticker methinks
<lotusleaf> Madpilot: cool thx
<Madpilot> the font I used on the SABDFL one is called "Another", which is freakin' impossible to google for...
<poningru> exactly
<lotusleaf> haha
<elkbuntu> Madpilot, are these non-copyrighted fonts?
<poningru> Madpilot: uh... that site says free for personal usage
<lotusleaf> now I can cover up the word microsoft when I see it with these stickers
<Madpilot> actually, it's on dafont too - http://www.dafont.com/another.font
<Admiral_Chicago> what is the font one that everyone lies fol LCD screens
<poningru> Madpilot: thats not exactly free use
<poningru> err personal
<Admiral_Chicago> err that everyone likes for LCD screens
<Madpilot> poningru, hmm, the original homepage for Dirty Headline doesn't specify the 'personal use only' part - http://www222.pair.com/sjohn/fonts.htm
<Madpilot> http://www222.pair.com/sjohn/fonts2.htm actually
<lotusleaf> Madpilot: thread updated: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=296742
<Admiral_Chicago> lotusleaf: that's hilarious
<Admiral_Chicago> i like the sabdfl one, i'd seen the other ubuntu ones
<lotusleaf> Admiral_Chicago: indeed, I love it =)
<Admiral_Chicago> lotusleaf: i gave a presentation on Ubuntu and everyone loled when i told them what Sabdfl meant
<lotusleaf> Admiral_Chicago: =)
<lotusleaf> I bet
<Admiral_Chicago> they also onjoyed Baby Jesus
<lotusleaf> now all I need is a death star printer
<Admiral_Chicago> ?
<Admiral_Chicago> printer mod?
<lotusleaf> Admiral_Chicago: a massive room with printers churning out posters/stickers nonstop
<lotusleaf> Admiral_Chicago: had a few of those down here for various rallies in the 90'ies
<Admiral_Chicago> ah i thought you meant a printer that could destroy a whole planet
<lotusleaf> lol
<Admiral_Chicago> lotusleaf: here?
<lotusleaf> Admiral_Chicago: well, not in this channel =)
<jenda> lotusleaf: http://lotusleafslinks.tuxfamily.org/obeyubuntu/ << Copyright infringement! :)
<lotusleaf> jenda: na, it's not OBEYubuntu/
<lotusleaf> :P
<lotusleaf> lol
* lotusleaf throws popcorn at jenda
<jenda> I meant the website.
<elkbuntu> it's going to be interesting to see what challenge posse posters turn up...
<lotusleaf> jenda: nah, it links back in the header
<lotusleaf> jenda: you mean to DIY? yeah, read the tags
<lotusleaf> jenda: I'll have to add that as a CLICKable link though, thanks =) I rushed it
* jenda sees nothing...
<lotusleaf> jenda: line 14 of the html
<lotusleaf> jenda: alt="
<MenZa> jenda: Krk..* 2?
<MenZa> (your address)
<jenda> lotusleaf: found :)
<lotusleaf> jenda: let me re-up it with a clickable link, thx =)
<jenda> MenZa: yep...
<MenZa> good good
<jenda> lotusleaf: you might want to add that the website is MenZa's work - that's what I meant, not teh DIY site.
<MenZa> jenda: now I know your address off heart :p
<MenZa> oh that was nothing
<lotusleaf> jenda: oh? MenZa made that template?
<MenZa> I did.
<MenZa> Figured I could repay jenda that way ;)
<jenda> lotusleaf: Although I plan to steal your page and use it on diy.(dev)ubuntu.com
<jenda> hehe :)
<lotusleaf> MenZa: hello! May I ask where you'd like me to link to aside from DIY with the name MenZa mentioned? :)
<lotusleaf> jenda: :(
<jenda> it's helped a lot - and now Daniel Buch is finishing it.
<MenZa> No need lotusleaf
<MenZa> Just looks neat in my portfolio, 'sall ;)
<lotusleaf> MenZa: but I wanna
<jenda> lotusleaf: just kidding - I'll ask you first, and then steal it...
<lotusleaf> lol
<MenZa> lotusleaf: http://menza.org then ;)
<MenZa> Lasse Havelund
<MenZa> I don't need it though :p
<lotusleaf> MenZa: k thx
<lotusleaf> MenZa: too bad :)
<MenZa> lol
<MenZa> Cheers
<Admiral_Chicago> speaknig of marketing. am i the only one that find the whole Killroy thing annoying?
* jenda knows no killroy.
<Madpilot> killroy wasn't here?
<Admiral_Chicago> jenda: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilroy_Was_Here
<jenda> ah
* jenda heard of that, but forgot again.
<jenda> lotusleaf: I intend to make a similar page for all Ubuntu diy material on diy.(dev)ubuntu.com, so Brian's posters have a spot reserved as well.
<lotusleaf> jenda: good, the more the merrier ;)
<Madpilot> jenda, could you grab all the posters & readme from lotusleaf's page and stick them in our BZR repo, please?
<jenda> I was just going to :)
<jenda> Madpilot: now that you're here...
<Madpilot> ya?
<Admiral_Chicago> BZR == bazaar?
<jenda> The posters i printed are nearly gone - only have some 185 left, so I'm thinking what's next...
<jenda> Admiral_Chicago: yep
<Admiral_Chicago> jenda: i know it's an "arch revision program
<Admiral_Chicago> but what does that mean?
<jenda> Madpilot: so, I've had two suggestions - Obey posters, and obey t-shirts... sounds good to you?
<Madpilot> phone, bbiab
<Admiral_Chicago> i think ubuntu should have an official site, instead of cafe freeprees or whatever is printing stuff
<Madpilot> jenda, go for it. poningru did point out that there might be some licensing issue w/ the font I used on the roughcut posters, though. Give me a few days to check w/ the creator of that, or to redraw the posters
<jenda> ok, cool
<jenda> But do you think I could ask you to polish them a little bit? (I have a few suggestions)
<jenda> (BTW - authors always get a few free prints)
<lotusleaf> jenda: amended, & thank you :)
<Madpilot> jenda, suggest away!
<jenda> Alrighty...
<lotusleaf> MenZa: your're linked and credited on that page now :)
<jenda> 1) the little smudge you have in the logo...
<MenZa> :)
<lotusleaf> MenZa: a beautiful design, btw
<Madpilot> damn... my landlord's crappy router seems to have tanked again - no DNS resolution...
<MenZa> thanks lotusleaf
<lotusleaf> MenZa: yw
<Madpilot> jenda, the one that's identical all over?
<jenda> The font is really rugged etc., but the logo is white, and the only 'flaw' is 8 smudges - all exactly the same.
<Admiral_Chicago> it's really hard to switch from Paradise Lost to Ubunutu
<jenda> Madpilot: So if you could achieve the same look the font has on the logo, it would look a _lot_ better, IMO :)
<jenda> (logo & the thick white lines)
<Madpilot> jenda, actually, I was thinking of going the opposite way - redrawing the text to be cleaner
<jenda> ok
<Admiral_Chicago> no i think the lines should look more..worn
<Admiral_Chicago> i was jut about to do an edit to see how it would look
<jenda> but - don't keep all the smudges the same :)
* jenda still thinks the font looks great.
<lotusleaf> what about a tiny jendafish logo in the corner
<jenda> :-D
<Madpilot> lotusleaf, no, the tiny wirelizard doesn't need company ;)
<lotusleaf> Madpilot: :P
<Admiral_Chicago> Madpilot: do you think you can recreate the zip with the files in a folder?
<Madpilot> having all the smudges the same was a bit of a private joke; it amuses me to be going to so much effort to reproduce errors that printers try hard to get rid of
<Madpilot> Admiral_Chicago, I didn't actually build the zip, lotusleaf did
<lotusleaf> Admiral_Chicago: paradise lost?
<Admiral_Chicago> the story by John Milton about the fall of the devil and Original Sin
<lotusleaf> Admiral_Chicago: yeah, but Goetia is different =) you mean people read zip comments today? :P
<jenda> Madpilot: ok - cool... and do you still want them to be that way? :)
<Admiral_Chicago> Goetia?
<lotusleaf> Admiral_Chicago: #goetia
<Madpilot> jenda, I'll keep fiddling with the images, might do more variation in the smudges
<jenda> ok, that would be cool :)
<jenda> Madpilot: Next thing... what aboutthe thin white outline around the logo? What's it for? IMO, you sohuld either remove it, or add it to the text too.
<Madpilot> if I end up re-drawing the text, I might
<jenda> and on the left dot in the logo, teh line goes uninterupted around the entire dot - and doesn't look good. I'd make it more imperfect :)
<jenda> ok
<lotusleaf> jenda: you will, of course, be making black t-shirts as some have almost begged for in the forums, with this/these logo/s, right? :)
<jenda> yes :)
<jenda> Do you think $10 is good price for a t-shirt?
<lotusleaf> jenda: /o/ hooray!
<lotusleaf> jenda: that's a delicious price
<jenda> leally? cool :)
<lotusleaf> jenda: have you seen cafepress?
<lotusleaf> jenda: lots of sites charge at least $14 - 20 bux
<lotusleaf> jenda: if you can get a black t-shirt with the ubuntu roughcut logo on the back (and/or one including a tiny ubuntu logo on the front left breast) that would rock
<Admiral_Chicago> jenda: perfectly reasonable
<lotusleaf> jenda: guess you could also run a poll on the forums with design ideas
<jenda> cool :)
<jenda> I like the roughcut design so much I don't think I'll be doing a poll ;)
<lotusleaf> ahhaah
<lotusleaf> jenda: which is what I was thinking in the first place ;)
<jenda> Madpilot: one more thing...
<jenda> Madpilot: teh trademark notice should be complete, I can't print otherwise : Ubuntu, Canonical and the Ubuntu Logo are trademarks of Canonical Ltd.
<Madpilot> good point.
<lotusleaf> http://doc.ubuntu.com/~marketing/DIY%20Material/Ubuntu_Posters_Roughcut/  <-- still missing kubuntu poster, needs the new poster too
<jenda> lotusleaf: alright, alright...
* jenda adds
<lotusleaf> jenda: thx! :)
* jenda commits
<Madpilot> jenda, thanks. I should have another go at figuring out bzr; svn wasn't that hard to learn...
* jenda pushes
<lotusleaf> jenda: ++ the latest readme he included should overwrite the old
<lotusleaf> jenda: thx
<jenda> I did.
<lotusleaf> r0x0r
* jenda ssh's
* jenda ./cronjobs
<lotusleaf> props to the first person who gets a roughcut tattoo
<Madpilot> I've been waiting for an Ubuntu logo tattoo to appear...
<MenZa> lotusleaf: I'd do it, if I was of age to get one ;)
<elkbuntu> i've been considering it
<MenZa> :o
<MenZa> :O
<jenda> wow
<lotusleaf> elkbuntu: which one, the logo or the sabdfl? :)
<jenda> great iea.
<elkbuntu> um.. logo
<lotusleaf> haha
<lotusleaf> cool!
<jenda> I think my friend would never talk to me again.
<Madpilot> elkbuntu, in full colour, or all in black?
<jenda> s/friend/friends/
<elkbuntu> Madpilot, probably color
<lotusleaf> jenda: over a tattoo?
<jenda> elkbuntu: on the forehead, or on your shoulder
<lotusleaf> yeah!
<Madpilot> gah... tattoos involve needles; I've never been good with needles... :P
<elkbuntu> jenda, undecided
<jenda> lotusleaf: over being so deep in Ubuntu that I even get a tattoo :)
<tonyyarusso> Madpilot: Same here
<lotusleaf> jenda: aahhh ;)
<jenda> lol... somebody is trying to send me a file called secrets.exe
<elkbuntu> rofl
<MenZa> jenda: yeah, they kept doing that on another server for me :p
<MenZa> I'd just have them g-lined
<MenZa> #*-social, jenda
<lotusleaf> jenda: you don't block dcc * ?
<MenZa> lotusleaf: why would you?
<jenda> MenZa: I told christel.
<MenZa> spiffy
<MenZa> /whowas <nick>
<jenda> now, I have to install wine to get me those secrets!
<MenZa> rofl
<MenZa> awesome
<MenZa> tell me what it is when you've got it
<MenZa> :D
<jenda> it won't transfer :/
<MenZa> you know
<MenZa> I thought about running it in wine
<MenZa> just.. cbf anyway
<lotusleaf> MenZa: because I don't want messages like that? :)
<jenda> damn, he's dead.
<MenZa> http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/comics/20061120.jpg
<MenZa> yep
<MenZa> they disconnect the moment they've tried sending lol
<jenda> Next time I need to _get_ the virus first, then get the user killed.
<MenZa> just a minor nuisance
<lotusleaf> jenda: never know, with wine it may work even better than in windows ;P
<jenda> lotusleaf: indeed :)
<jenda> But I lost it. I'll get myself some other virus...
<jenda> Nah, screw it. Should lose time with that :)
<Madpilot> there was a great article somewhere on trying to run Win viruses on Wine
<jenda> Madpilot: I read it :)
<Madpilot> a nice take on the usual "Linux isn't ready for the desktop" whinge ;)
* MenZa cracks his head open at #freenode-social
<jenda> http://os.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=05/01/25/1430222&from=rss
<lotusleaf> wow, nice spam comment near the bottom ;P
<MenZa> that's hilarious jenda
<Madpilot> my DNS is still fubar'd... stoopid cheap router... cheap landlord...
<jenda> lotusleaf: which one?
<lotusleaf> jenda: nm nothing special, someone link spammed on the article you mentioned
<lotusleaf> jenda: kinda fitting though, considering the topic ;)
<jenda> ok 
<MenZa> http://os.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=43827&cid=107366
<lotusleaf> cmon boingboing, post it, post it, post it, post it!
<jenda> nice...
<poningru> Madpilot: nm re: licensing
<poningru> we're good
<Madpilot> poningru, did you email Cumberland?
<poningru> arr?
<poningru> no
<poningru> no its legal to use even commercial fonts
<poningru> for that kinda purpose
<Madpilot> ya, thought it would be, but font licensing is f'ing strange territory
<poningru> indeed
<lotusleaf> I wanna see someone make an evil patent pusher poster against patents
<Madpilot> lotusleaf, huh?
<MenZa> lotusleaf: I'll consider it.
<lotusleaf> MenZa: awesome, thx
* jenda goes package some more posters...
<lotusleaf> Madpilot: against the whole software patent industry
<Madpilot> jenda, what're you selling your posters for again?
<MenZa> jenda: :D
<jenda> Madpilot: a buck a piece
<jenda> MenZa: did you get the stickers yet?
<Madpilot> jenda, shipping included, to Canada?
<jenda> Madpilot: nope, shipping is an extra $5, flat fee for up to 25 posters.
<MenZa> jenda: stickers yeah
<MenZa> jenda: told you about that too ;9
<jenda> cool.
<MenZa> ;)
<MenZa> *
<jenda> MenZa: really? damn.
<jenda> :)
<Madpilot> jenda, USD, right?
<jenda> yep
<jenda> but if that meant currency conversions to you, you might as well convert to CZK ;)
<Madpilot> jenda, cool, reserve 5 for me, I'll get money to you via Paypal tomorrow when I have functional DNS
<jenda> Madpilot: I'll send them today, then.
<jenda> Lucky bastard ;)
<jenda> send me your addy by email.
<jenda> (@ubuntu.com)
<Madpilot> jenda, will do, tomorrow
<jenda> heh - I'm sending shipments on mondays... so if I get your address now, you'll get them a week earlier ;)
<Madpilot> I'll have to wait, I just remembered I need to update my Paypal account first anyway
<jenda> Brian, you can pay whenever - in a month, if you want, but I need your shipping address _now_ :)
<Madpilot> jenda, PM then?
<jenda> sure
<jenda> MenZa: can you believe it... I need your address... again :)
<jenda> It seems I copied it directly on teh envelope last time... and you have teh envelope :)
<MenZa> aha
<MenZa> haha*
<lotusleaf> a poster of this too http://www.mneptok.com/pony-cd-cover.jpg
<poningru> wtf
<poningru> dear god no
<jenda> ROFL
<poningru> my lug will laugh my ass off
<lotusleaf> do a /whois mnepton
<poningru> the fc and sled guys will never let me live this down
<poningru> ...
<lotusleaf> he posted the url in #ubuntu-offtopic
<lotusleaf> ;P
<lotusleaf> #ubuntu-devel: <mnepton> dear God. please send me a pony. and deliver me from half-baked compositing. love, mnep.
* poningru shakes head
<lotusleaf> lol
<jenda> Madpilot: what SW do you use? I'll be needing a printer-friendly format in the end, probably pdf. (other than that, I think they take eps.
<jenda> )
<Madpilot> jenda, Inkscape; the version in Edgy apparently does PDF export nicely. guess I need to upgrade...
<jenda> I guess I can export from inkscape myself.
<jenda> (edgy)
<Madpilot> Inkscape does EPS export too; I know zip about EPS, though.
<jenda> I know that Inkscape doesn't export it too well, though.
<jenda> I can get the printer to check it first, though.
<lotusleaf> jenda: 404 now for around an hour or so @ http://doc.ubuntu.com/~marketing/DIY%20Material/Ubuntu_Posters_Roughcut/
<lotusleaf> fwiw
<jenda> yeah yeah yeah, I'm working on it :)
<lotusleaf> jenda: oh, sorry ;)
<jenda> nah, really, I just found out seconds ago, the cronjob failed :)
<lotusleaf> haha
* jenda can't pack the posters, cuz he's outta tape...
<lotusleaf> jenda: do you do all the packing/shipping yourself?
<jenda> and I'm expecting someone in a few minutes.
<jenda> yes, of course. Minimising costs :)
<lotusleaf> ah =)
<jenda> damn, I should take a cut, too :/
<jenda> (j/k)
<lotusleaf> jenda: karma ;)
<jenda> hehe :)
<jenda> I think I will be taking a cut if it becomes routine. I was originally hoping I'd do one or two batches, and that would inspire others to do one or two batches... but here I am working on a fourth and fifth :)
<lotusleaf> jenda: no argument there
<jenda> oh well, we'll see - there are folks who have hinted that they might try and make some themselves.
<lotusleaf> jenda: I'd like to find some glow in the dark like material to make some ubuntu stickers with, using the roughcut design
<jenda> oooh
<jenda> I've got this annoying blue LED on my subwoofer
<jenda> I stuck one of MenZa's black-n-white Ubuntu stickers over it... and now it's a blue Ubuntu logo at night :)
<MenZa> :D
<MenZa> Pics!
<MenZa> ;d
<jenda> no cam :(
<MenZa> :(
<MenZa> Right, you mentioned
* jenda really needs to get his ma to visit sometime :)
<MenZa> :D
<jenda> I could show her Beryl while at it.
<jenda> 
<MenZa> :D
<Madpilot> need sleep. g'night all.
<lotusleaf> Madpilot: nn
<jenda> MenZa: you will notice the technological advancement I'm doing... the next package will have the address printed on ;)
<MenZa> :D
<jenda> weeell...
<jenda> printed on a piece of paper and glued on.
<MenZa> ftw
<jenda> right... and I need to install this troublesome HP printer first ;)
<MenZa> Mine never was :)
<jenda> troublesome, or installed?
<MenZa> installed.
<MenZa> er
<MenZa> troublesome.
<MenZa> It was never troublesome.
<MenZa> Just installed
<MenZa> poof!
<jenda> hehe :)
<jenda> which model is it?
<MenZa> er
<MenZa> Two secs
<MenZa> PSC 1215
<jenda> never heard of...
<jenda> mine's HPLJ1020
<MenZa> CUPS did it for me
<jenda> there, installed...
<MenZa> ftw
<jenda> yay, prints...
* jenda just got himself enough tape to pack a gazillion posters, and some self-adhesive address tags.
<lotusleaf> jenda: ubuntu wrapping paper
<jenda> Ain't got.
<jenda> But I is got some of MenZa's black stickers, and I put one on each package ;)
<lotusleaf> Ain't got yet. <-- fixed that for you ;)
<lotusleaf> stickers, eh?
<jenda> hehe... no fix the state, not the sentence ;)
<jenda> *now
<lotusleaf> so true
<meatballhat9000> hallo all
<lotusleaf> hello
<meatballhat9000> I've been working with jenda on the diy site
<meatballhat9000> http://diy.devubuntu.com/
<meatballhat9000> I'd like to put the rough cuts posters on there, too
<lotusleaf> meatballhat9000: the posters are PD, what's stopping you
<lotusleaf> meatballhat9000: spread them far, spread them wide, and spread them some more =)
<jenda> everyone, meet Dan Buch, Dan Buch, meet marketing team :)
<meatballhat9000> hallo :-D
<meatballhat9000> lotusleaf: that's the plan ...  at the moment, going to work this morning is stopping me :-)
<lotusleaf> meatballhat9000: ah ;)
<meatballhat9000> ...and I'll be changing my nick for the sake of ease (sorry...  new to __many__ things including IRC)
<lotusleaf> danbuch929: sorry, I closed the window, what was your last PM?
<lotusleaf> oh well.. ;/
<jenda> *phew* Finally packed.
<lotusleaf> jenda: dedicated
<jenda> 
<lotusleaf> jenda: there should be a jenda poster shack on the isle of man
<lotusleaf> staffed with workers day and night
<lotusleaf> delivering goodness to all ubuntuers
<jenda> 10 packages of posters, 3 of stickers, 2 of CDs today.
<lotusleaf> like santa, but with a better flag
<jenda> hehe :-D
<lotusleaf> jenda: do you toss the posters in tubes or ship em flat
<lotusleaf> flat as in framed
<jenda> I roll them up, and roll up two sheets of paper over that
<lotusleaf> ah cool
<lotusleaf> I wish there were frames that rolled up
<jenda> altogether some 10 layers of paper protecting them - works well enough and costs about $0.10 ;)
<jenda> hehe :)
<jenda> framing is up to the recipient. I think I'll frame one for myself.
<lotusleaf> I'm going to have to try some roughcut blacklight posters
<jenda> I don't think I can help with blacklights... but the roughcuts, I'll be doing. I think they'll be cheap to print, too :)
<lotusleaf> will have to see how costly that will be to produce
<lotusleaf> awesome :)
<lotusleaf> ya that's the thing, added cost in specialty goods
<lotusleaf> one could go ghetto with a template and color in the white with blacklight reactive paint I suppose for posters
<jenda> but i still have to get rid of 199 of HanZos posters first :)
<jenda> ooh
<lotusleaf> oh, nevermind me, I'm just talking out loud about it
<lotusleaf> really ghetto is using yellow markers, which will show up under blacklight, but that's tacky
<jenda> well, won't paper show under blacklight? :-D
<lotusleaf> lol, yeah
<lotusleaf> but I mean, having a cool glowing effect
<MenZa> jenda: the form on the diy site is horrible
<MenZa> Posters, that is
<MenZa> You have a LIST of TLDs >.>
<jenda> oh, I saw that.
<jenda> I forgot to tell him.
<lotusleaf> jenda: you've seen blacklight posters made for blacklights and under blacklights right?
<jenda> it doesn't even have .cz in the list :)
<MenZa> lol
<jenda> lotusleaf: nope...
<lotusleaf> really? wow
<MenZa> or .dk, or .de, or .se, or .no, or .root, or .ws, or .po, or .es
<lotusleaf> they're even making blacklight reactive tattoos now
<jenda> but I think I've seen blacklight reactive stuff under blacklights in a laser game somewhere.
<jenda> wow :)
<MenZa> and around 200 others
<MenZa> Or more :p
<lotusleaf> http://blog.wired.com/blacklighttats/
<lotusleaf> Blacklight Tattoos
<lotusleaf> http://wiredblogs.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/xmlatomlifeblog29830jpeg_232.jpg
<lotusleaf> ^ Let's Rock blacklight tattoo
<MenZa> http://wiredblogs.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/xmlatomlifeblog29830jpeg_236.jpg<- I like this
<jenda> OK that's it.
<jenda> I want a blackligth Ubuntu Tatoo.
<MenZa> haha
<jenda> *tattoo
<lotusleaf> MenZa: that's wild
<lotusleaf> jenda: I'd get one between my eyes
<lotusleaf> jenda: with the url ;)
<jenda> hehe
<lotusleaf> see the difference: http://wiredblogs.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/xmlatomlifeblog29830jpeg_230.jpg
<lotusleaf> you can google for other blacklight examples
<jenda> and now I gotta run, in order to be able to ship some of what I packed.
<jenda> nah... too late.
<jenda> MitchM: ping
<MitchM> jenda, pong
<MitchM> jenda, How are you? =)
<jenda> complaint :)
<MitchM> listening
<jenda> I'm fine thanks, you?
<MitchM> doing wonderful; thanks :)
<jenda> complaint: /var/www/diy/images , owned by root.
<jenda> Can't delete it :)
<MitchM> har de har har!
<jenda> So, once you get to it, please do delete it.
<MitchM> delete what?
* MitchM looks around
<jenda> /var/www/diy/images
<jenda> the entire dir
<jenda> images_aux is used instead
<MitchM> haha. what I meant was; I already deleted it.
<MitchM> all is well =)
<jenda> oh :)
<MitchM> dont know how that would have snuck in there....
<jenda> you murderer! It's dead!
<MitchM> *shrugs*
<jenda> 
<jenda> thanks
<MitchM> *screams* !
<MitchM> yup =)
<jenda> oi, I got a quote for t-shirts from the printing company... yummy.
<jenda> blank t-shirts go for $3-$4
<jenda> Do you think I should go for cheaper, or better? :)
<MitchM> better =)
<MitchM> but I'm a quality control buff.
<MitchM> so cheap would probably be acceptable
<MitchM> cheap(er0
<MitchM> (er)*
<jenda> oooh, they have one for $8 blank...
<jenda> I might be able to get an assortment, even.
<jenda> wow... looks... cheap...
<jenda> 100 shirts... $3.40 even if I get the second best shirts...
<jenda> 100 back-prints ... $72
<jenda> 100 chest prints ... $46
<jenda> flat fee for processing... $46
<jenda> $6 per t-shirt including tax.
<Admiral_Chicago> jenda: screen printing
<jenda> yep
<Admiral_Chicago> as a general rule, the more shirts you get, the more the cost of the screen is offset
<Admiral_Chicago> i handle printing for my karate school, i think it came out to about 7.50 a shirt
<jenda> yes, the cost of the screen / image manipulation and other processes independent on t-shirt number, is $46
<jenda> for 50 shirts, it would be double per shirt, for 100 it's just 46
<Admiral_Chicago> yup
<Admiral_Chicago> jenda: where are you doing this out of? like what's your country of origion
<jenda> Czech Republic.
<Admiral_Chicago> ah
<Admiral_Chicago> have you considered how shipping may fit in this?
<jenda> and the printing itself gets cheaper when printing over 100 (about half, so I chose 100, will ask if that's enough for the discount)
<jenda> assuming the t-shirt weighs less than 250 grams (half a pound) it will be $3.50 shipping globally
<jenda> if it's over that, it'll be $5.50
<jenda> Which means, if I charge $15 including shipping, I'm very OK :)
<Admiral_Chicago> you got it all figured out
<jenda> I'd have the expenses covered at shirt #53
<Admiral_Chicago> sounds like a good plan
<jenda> plan D :)
<jenda> tadaa: http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=1784059
<tsmithe> yay!
#ubuntu-marketing 2006-11-21
<elkbuntu> i believe it may be days before we see whipru... err.. wiiprush around
<tsmithe> wiiprush?
<wiiprush> tsmithe: yo
<elkbuntu> lol
<elkbuntu> maybe i be wrong
<elkbuntu> how is it you pried yourself from your new toy?
<wiiprush> tennis elbow. :p
<tsmithe> toy?
<elkbuntu> lol
<jenda> what's the toy?
<tsmithe> wii?
<jenda> what's a wii?
<wiiprush> it's a nintendo
<jenda> I know I saw that somewhere...
<jenda> aha
<jenda> sue them for the elbow
<tsmithe> doesnt know about wii!!!
<tsmithe> where are they out?
* jenda isn't a gamer.
<jenda> can you install linux on it?
* jenda is installing a mandriva 2007 on his lappy
<jenda> I got it a lot earlier than it get 'out there' from the source :)
<tsmithe> not mandriva! it always annoyed me
<jenda> oops it seems to have screwed up my PC good :)
<elkbuntu> lol
<jenda> yes :) ubuntu boots...
<jenda> although there is something wrong with my /home
<jenda> here is /me from my Ubuntu to prove it :)
<elkbuntu> did you try share a /home?
<jenda> yes :)
<elkbuntu> using the same DE?
<jenda> is that illegal?
<jenda> yep
<elkbuntu> no.. but afaik, mandriva and ubuntu do things slightly different ;)
<jenda> Gnome
<jenda> indeed :)
<jenda> wooo it's fun being jenda from two PCs at once. I say somethnig here, and on the other one it looks as if I said it there :)
<elkbuntu> hehe
<jenda> and now it even beeped, as I said my name :)
<jenda> neat - it's also a way to be connected to ICQ from two spots.
<jenda> attempt 2
<elkbuntu> jenda, for the tshirts, i'd advise taking orders until you get a certain number then having the shirts done. that way you order # x Small, # x Medium, # x Large, # x XL and so forth
<jenda> hmm
<elkbuntu> i dont think you'll have any problem finding 50 something people wanting an OBEY shirt
<jenda> Good idea. will do.
<elkbuntu> and you can always do a round 2
<jenda> 100
<jenda> 100 is the number to get bulk discount.
<jenda> attempt #3 :) brb
<jenda> well, brb is an overstatement, I, the server, am still around :)
<jenda> SUCCESS :)
<elkbuntu> hehe
<elkbuntu> you might end up needing to do a batch of the posse ones too
<lotusleaf> darn, no boingboing post about those posters today ;(
<Madpilot> http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS4646261136.html
<Madpilot> Yet Another SABDFL Interview
<lotusleaf> r0x0r thx
* tonyyarusso wonders what we would have to do to get him interviewed outside of tech news
<tonyyarusso> I'm thinking BBC
<lotusleaf> tonyyarusso: you know, I've been wondering that, too. I noticed the media relations area is still not fleshed out in the marketing area
<tonyyarusso> lotusleaf: Yeah, we're a bit lacking there
<lotusleaf> tonyyarusso: I think snail mail and/or phone calls should be made
<tonyyarusso> I'd love to have some really solid stuff to send to local news, b/c I'm not the best person to write those
<tonyyarusso> I wrote up a little press release for Dapper, but it could probably be made to sound a lot better
<lotusleaf> that's cool, I hope this area of marketing develops
<tonyyarusso> Another place I think would be awesome: The Daily Show
<lotusleaf> yup
<tonyyarusso> It's got just the audience
<tonyyarusso> Young, in tune with current events, willing to try new things, and generally intelligent
<lotusleaf> that would be something to propose on the mailing list for sure
<tonyyarusso> What do you think would be the way to approach it?  Ask everyone on the mailing list to send letters requesting them?
<elkbuntu> its a good start
<tonyyarusso> I'll see if I can whip up something for people to work from this weekend, and send something out
<elkbuntu> best idea is to construct a list of vulnerable newsgroups to focus on
<tonyyarusso> Such as?
<tonyyarusso> I gotta try to grab a nap at least before I have to go through another day.  Bye all.
<lotusleaf> cya tonyyarusso
<MenZa> jenda: stickers shipped
<lotusleaf> MenZa: say that 12 times really fast ;)
<MenZa> XD
<lotusleaf> :P
<jenda> MenZa: I shipped all I had today, so if yours weren't in the last batch, they definitely went today.
<MenZa> :d
<MenZa> :D*
<macluvjay> I may be late to the party, but I really like the t-shirts, jenda
<macluvjay> I would really like to see the brown ones, but will be happy with a black and white
<jenda> macluvjay: It seems the brown ones are more popular, so once the manufacturers respond my first inquiries, I'll ask them about that too.
<macluvjay> great
<lotusleaf> jenda: you rolling out t-shirts now?
<jenda> I don't think it should make a difference, as long as their supplier makes the right color (brown)
<jenda> lotusleaf: nah, what makes you think so?
<jenda> The fun part is that I don't have enough money for the project :)
<lotusleaf> <macluvjay> I may be late to the party, but I really like the t-shirts, jenda
<jenda> damn, macluvjay, you gave me away.
<lotusleaf> lol
<macluvjay> oops
<macluvjay> ;)
<jenda> lotusleaf: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=303557
<lotusleaf> thx
<jenda> macluvjay: thanks for the support ;)
<macluvjay> always
<jenda> I need about $200 more to be able to afford the project ($600)
<jenda> (or... I could sell some of my stashed away USD to CZK, that would make it sooner...)
<lotusleaf> thx for the thread link, wish I could help $$ wise
<lotusleaf> will there be a minimum order amt?
<lotusleaf> darn, brown won, I'd buy a white on black tshirt ;)
<jenda> Yes, there will be a minimum order amount.
<jenda> really?
<jenda> hmm
<jenda> i'll ask what the options are.
<jenda> the printer won't be happy :)
<lotusleaf> haha, well just go with what the majority want
<jenda> minimum order amount:
<jenda> 1 t-shirt
<lotusleaf> after all, those of us who want it bad enough can make our own shirts
<macluvjay> for EVERYONE!
<lotusleaf> haha nice min amt ;)
<macluvjay> in the WORLD!
<jenda> true :)
<jenda> hehe, that would be quite a business.
<lotusleaf> jenda: tiny jendafish logo at the seams?
<jenda> It would remind me of Microsoft too much, though.
<jenda> nah :)
<jenda> the Ubuntu logo is enough...
<lotusleaf> these shirts are a great idea, esp. the roughcut design
<lotusleaf> they gonna bring a lot of people to google ;)
<jenda> 
<lotusleaf> ubuntu? what's that?
<jenda> OK, I gotta roll.
<lotusleaf> jenda: cu
* jenda is actually heading out for _physical_activity_, after months of lack thereof.
<jenda> AKA sports.
<jenda> eww....
<jenda> anyway, gbye :)
<lotusleaf> typing isn't a sport?
<lotusleaf> :P
<jenda> not on the dvorak. It's too easy :)
<lotusleaf> :S
<poningru> woot
<poningru> got a job as sysadmin
<poningru> part time
<Burgwork> cool
<poningru> yeah they use all debian
<poningru> and one of their reqs is help out with deb dev somehow
<poningru> like support or something
<jenda> mdke, ping
<mdke> pong
<tsmithe> sorry
<tsmithe> he's not in
<jenda> grrr
<tsmithe> i have a user list ;)
<jenda> so do I :)
<tsmithe> being only 24 long in this channel it's quite easy to scan ;)
<jenda> I'm too tired to realise that typing manually won't fix tab-completion not working :/
<jenda> 
<tsmithe> well, do you try and tab-complete english?
<jenda> hm?
<tsmithe> as in, you are too lazy to type properly and write the beginning of the word, press tab, and expect the rest to pop up?
<rED_HErrING> i do that
<rED_HErrING> especially with long words
<tsmithe> it makes me feel stupid... but i wish it worked ;)
<rED_HErrING> i'd like to invent that
<rED_HErrING> or take the easy way out
<tsmithe> which is?
<rED_HErrING> and spawn 1000 irc clients to connect ot freenode and join all the channels, all having nicks of long words i like to autocomplete
<tsmithe> lol
* rED_HErrING is full of amazing ideas
<tsmithe> they'd ban the ip
<jenda> tsmithe: yes, that happens all the time, the thing is it didn't strike me that md<tab> didn't gimme a mdke.
<tsmithe> ah
<jenda> rED_HErrING: I think no more than 20 or so from the same IP would be allowed.
<jenda> maybe not even that.
<rED_HErrING> jenda: yeah... we found that out the hard way
<jenda> 
* rED_HErrING had a bot that would clone itself... we abused it till lilo came in to shut us up
<tsmithe> so... pneumonultrasilicovolcanoconiosis, and antidisestablishmentarianism ... words which i use *so* frequently
<rED_HErrING> i didnt know who lilo was at the time... so i was kinda insulting him :-\
<tsmithe> damn i got it wrong
<tonyyarusso> jenda: I found you can't join more than 20 chans with the same client either
<tsmithe> *pneumonultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis
<tsmithe> tonyyarusso, that's crazy!
<rED_HErrING> tsmithe: did you just sneeze?
<tsmithe> don't think so
<rED_HErrING> tonyyarusso: i think thats *your* client
* tsmithe looks around
<jenda> Who is "PhilipSeyfi"?
<tsmithe> rED_HErrING, me agree
<tsmithe> jenda, he is "Philip Seyfi"
<jenda> tonyyarusso: oh yes you can... :)
<tonyyarusso> rED_HErrING: It's a freenode thing - try it yourself
<tonyyarusso> jenda: Oh?...
* tonyyarusso may be mistaken
<tsmithe> so who is lilo?
<rED_HErrING> tonyyarusso: gimmie 20 channels then
<rED_HErrING> tsmithe: are you kidding?
<tsmithe> no
<tsmithe> who?
<jenda> Oh no, you are right - it's a channel limit on freenode, tonyyarusso
<tonyyarusso> rED_HErrING: ubuntu-*, check the wiki for the list
<rED_HErrING> tsmithe: hes teh head of freenode... well he was
<tsmithe> lol
<tonyyarusso> HaHA!
* tonyyarusso wins
<tsmithe> rED_HErrING, that must have been cyberembarrassing
<jenda> tsmithe: he has tragically passed away a few weeks ago :(
<jenda> :'(
<tsmithe> can i be the new head?
<jenda> No.
<rED_HErrING> tsmithe: twas.
<tsmithe> jenda: awh
<tonyyarusso> tsmithe: His brother is now, iirc
<jenda> Christel is the new head of staff.
<tsmithe> jenda, why not?
<tsmithe> jenda, christel who resides in #ReactOS?
<tsmithe> and perhaps other chans
<jenda> tonyyarusso: but as all limits, it can be bypassed :)
<tsmithe> lol
<jenda> try whoising me :)
<tsmithe> even speed of light?
<jenda> tsmithe: there ain't none other.
<jenda> tsmithe: not that one.
<tsmithe> damn
<tsmithe> i want to go back in time
<tsmithe> what is "whoising"?
<tonyyarusso> jenda: Share the knowledge?
<tsmithe> i understand "whois"
<rED_HErrING> did it.
<jenda> If "PhilipSeyfi" doesn't contact me very soon, I'll consider it rude. :/ Added himself to the spreadubuntu project on the wiki :)
<tonyyarusso> tsmithe: A bad verbing
<rED_HErrING> tonyyarusso: im in 20 channels now
<jenda> tonyyarusso: you gotta beg real bad :)
<tonyyarusso> jenda: hehe
<rED_HErrING> and theres the 21st
<rED_HErrING> tonyyarusso: you lose.
<tsmithe> no... how do i do irc whois?
<jenda> and beg and beg and beg and beg, and reason, and beg, and then you might get it :)
<jenda> tsmithe: try /whois tsmithe
<jenda> rED_HErrING: no way
<tsmithe> does nothing
<rED_HErrING> channels : ##chicago ##unavailable @#gentoo-offtopic #debian-offtopic #gentoo #debian #xubuntu-offtopic #xubuntu
<rED_HErrING>                       #kubuntu #ubuntu-offtopic #ubuntu #freenode-social #kubuntu-offtopic #ubuntu-marketing #roflcopter
<rED_HErrING>                       #ubuntu-education +#imagi-nation #chicago #ubuntu-chicago #zomfg
<jenda> that's 20
<tsmithe> yeah
<jenda> try one more :)
<rED_HErrING> damn
<rED_HErrING> k
<tonyyarusso> jenda: Well, I'm not very good at begging, but the reason is that I have a server collecting statistics on Ubuntu IRC channels (http://www.tonyyarusso.is-a-geek.com/), and currently have to pick and choose the channels I have it do, since I can't fit them all within the limit.
<rED_HErrING> whoah
<rED_HErrING> you're right
<jenda> tonyyarusso: well, then beg :)
<rED_HErrING> 14:59 -!- Cannot join to channel #ubuntu+1 (You have joined to too many channels)
* tonyyarusso beggedy begs
<jenda> you can start at nalioth, but do _not_ mention my name :-D
<tonyyarusso> haha
<tonyyarusso> Whose name?
<tsmithe> why is he begging?
<jenda> tonyyarusso: yeah, him :)
<tonyyarusso> The one playing first?
<jenda> tsmithe: wants the extended channels mode :)
<tsmithe> oh...
<tsmithe> why can't he mention you?
<tsmithe> i would ;)
<rED_HErrING> phew cut it down to 9 again
<tonyyarusso> Because he's on third, and we don't know him.
<jenda> because at the time I asked for it, I wasn't supposed to talk about it.
<jenda> Although now it's a bit different.
<tsmithe> ah
<tsmithe> ah
<jenda> Back then, I had to be a 'flagged staff member' to achieve the effect.
<tonyyarusso> jenda: Some sort of feature pilot?
<jenda> It also took a lot more begging :)
<jenda> nah, staff have had it since the start.
<rED_HErrING> so how much do you guys *actually* talk about ubuntu and marketing here?
<tsmithe> not much
<rED_HErrING> sweet. ill fit right in.
<tsmithe> coolio
<rED_HErrING> i think we should paint an ubuntu logo on the atlantic ocean.
<tsmithe> now how would that work?
<rED_HErrING> tsmithe: it woudlnt.
<rED_HErrING> it would just BE
<tsmithe> great
<tonyyarusso> rED_HErrING: We did last night, but it varies
<rED_HErrING> yup!
<rED_HErrING> tonyyarusso: gotcha
<tsmithe> i could gimp a logo onto the ocean...
<tonyyarusso> rED_HErrING: You could use phosporescent algae
<tonyyarusso> Make it show up at night
<rED_HErrING> tonyyarusso: any idea where to get.... oh say 1 trillion tons of that?
<tsmithe> ask the whales?
<tonyyarusso> rED_HErrING: Just collect a small sample and start culturing
<tsmithe> the whales!
<rED_HErrING> tonyyarusso: k, should i start now?
<tonyyarusso> rED_HErrING: Most likely
<tsmithe> wow... where did you get the algae? i dont have any lying around
<tonyyarusso> You might want to install a pool or buy a local lake as a start
<tsmithe> and fill it with sugar
<tsmithe> oh... and water
<rED_HErrING> tonyyarusso: i got an inflatable one
<rED_HErrING> no, i got a better idea.  Brown red and orange mushroom clouds!!
<tonyyarusso> Another option is that you could just inject GFP genes into a significant portion of the population near where you want it, and let them do the work naturally
<tsmithe> gfp?
<tonyyarusso> rED_HErrING: We need three cities in a triangular pattern
<jenda> he meant .svg genes.
<tonyyarusso> tsmithe: Green flourescent protein
<tsmithe> ah
<tonyyarusso> We injected it into little creatures in my high school biotech class and made 'em glow
<tonyyarusso> was cool
<rED_HErrING> tonyyarusso: k, europe or US
<jenda> Wow!
<tsmithe> wow!
<jenda> That seifip guy who joined spreadubuntu is Czech.
<rED_HErrING> wow!
<jenda> neat.
<jenda> Might help out.
<tonyyarusso> rED_HErrING: Clearly US - we deserve some payback for our idiocy.  Just only hit red states
<rED_HErrING> tonyyarusso: Texas.
<rED_HErrING> its got a nice brown background already
<tsmithe> jenda: lol... the german assistant at my school speaks czech... she doesnt understand our humour
<jenda> hehe :)
<jenda> fair tradeoff, I guess.
<tsmithe> she said she'll have to get used to it before she watches borat
* tonyyarusso wonders if this convo should stop to avoid me being questioned when I try to cross the border back into the US next month....
<rED_HErrING> tonyyarusso: not likely
<rED_HErrING> tonyyarusso: the cops dont care about my little hacking incident a few months ago
<rED_HErrING> in fact they laughed
<tsmithe> jenda, i think she hates us... we laugh, and she doesnt get it
<rED_HErrING> tonyyarusso: as long as you dont look arab you're in teh clear
<rED_HErrING> and if you're a middle age white woman you can carry knives on planes!
<rED_HErrING> (sad but true)
<tonyyarusso> holy crap - 35 responses to the bug report I submitted last night
<tsmithe> now... what was SpreadUbuntu... sounds interesting... am i on it?
<tsmithe> !bug ?
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about bug ? - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<tonyyarusso> rED_HErrING: This is true - I'm a 20-something white male, so I'm fine
<jenda> bug #1
<tsmithe> wait that's ubugtu
<jenda> ubuntu 1
<rED_HErrING> i really need to start bugfixing
<jenda> ubuntu #1
* rED_HErrING sticks to the first bug
<jenda> argh...
<tonyyarusso> I think you just mention bug #1
<tsmithe> i'm confused
<rED_HErrING> i got a question bout launchpad and bugfixing
<tonyyarusso> But Ubugtu isn't joined to this channel
<tsmithe> i know
<jenda> rED_HErrING: this is not really the place...
<tsmithe> @bug is what i wanted
<rED_HErrING> should i just.... submit what i think are bugs or should i really figure out it before id o?
<jenda> tonyyarusso: good point :)
<rED_HErrING> jenda: just a general question
<tsmithe> rED_HErrING, do that
<tsmithe> do research beforehand so it's not vague however
<jenda> rED_HErrING: really figure out, and this chan ain't for general questions :)
<tsmithe> lol
<tsmithe> it is for algae though
<tonyyarusso> obviously
<rED_HErrING> whats the channelf or bugs?
<tonyyarusso> -bugs
<tsmithe> my text box disappeared...
<tsmithe> i cant remember the conversation now!
<jenda> rED_HErrING: #ubuntu-bugs
<jenda> but I'm not sure if it's the chan to actually report them in.
<rED_HErrING> gotcha
<rED_HErrING> jenda: yeah i know
<tsmithe> can i join in spreadubuntu?
<tsmithe> have i already?
<rED_HErrING> whats spreadubuntu?!
<tsmithe> wiki.ubuntu.com/SpreadUbuntu
<tonyyarusso> jenda, rED_HErrING: Just report them on LP
<tsmithe> wow it's weird how this chan gets loud and quiet so suddenly!
<rED_HErrING> yeah...
<rED_HErrING> really
<tsmithe> now... what's "voice"?
<tsmithe> stupid gorillaz
<tsmithe> that's better
<tsmithe> but only just
<tsmithe> ...
<tsmithe> ..
<tsmithe> .
<tsmithe> 
<rED_HErrING> yes.
<tsmithe> voice != yes
* tonyyarusso leaves again -#@$# class
* tonyyarusso at class - back in a few hours
<tsmithe> "-#@$# class2
<tsmithe> "
<tsmithe> stupid hands
* rED_HErrING agrees
<tsmithe> so...
<tsmithe> how's everyone's day been?
<rED_HErrING> lame for the most part
<tsmithe> mine was alright
<tsmithe> a bit low in the morn: denied a place on german exchange...
<tsmithe> but afternoon was great!
<tsmithe> spent five hours playing trumpet
<rED_HErrING> fun
<tsmithe> indeed... we were making a big band cd
<rED_HErrING> sweet
<tsmithe> only got to do 8 tracks...
<rED_HErrING> its 3:20 here
<tsmithe> pm/am?
<rED_HErrING> pm
<tsmithe> ok
<rED_HErrING> yeah
<tsmithe> so you are utc-6
<jenda> omg
<tsmithe> where?
<tsmithe> what?
<jenda> tsmithe: I'm working on spreadubuntu. Once it's alive and once I'm capable of forming a new way for it to head, count yourself in :)
<rED_HErrING> chicago
<jenda> ooh, we're getting many chicagians here.
<tsmithe> "Hast du etwas Zeit fur mich / Dann singe ich ein Lied fuer dich / Von 99 Luftballons"
<tsmithe> i'm in kent
<jenda> Unless you're the same as Admiral_Chicago.
<rED_HErrING> jenda: just me, admiral_chicago and nix
<tsmithe> jenda knows where
<jenda> kk
<rED_HErrING> jenda: i came cuz nix and admiral were talking about it in #ubuntu-chicago
<jenda> cool :)
<rED_HErrING> yup
<rED_HErrING> we're pretty good with ubuntu here
<tsmithe> "neunundneunzig luftballons auf ihrem weg zum horizont"
<tsmithe> jenda: is that you're .diyubuntu.com site?
<tsmithe> *your
<jenda> Partly.
<jenda> brb
<tsmithe> bye
<tsmithe> "habe einen luftballoon gefunden"
<tsmithe> you have to guess the song
<tsmithe> someone?
<tsmithe> bah
<rED_HErrING> i dont know german
<rED_HErrING> i know someone IN germany
<rED_HErrING> but thats about it
<tsmithe> its 99 Luftballons by Nena!
<tsmithe> i know little german, but it's a good song
<tsmithe> i'd send it to you, but apparently that's illegal
<rED_HErrING> tehe
<rED_HErrING> trust me no one cares round here
<tsmithe> i don't care
<rED_HErrING> id say more but im fairly sure SOMEONEs listening
<tsmithe> i think it shouldnt be
<tsmithe> me
<tsmithe> too
<tsmithe> bloody Thought Police
<rED_HErrING> for the record i do NOT pirate software
<rED_HErrING> NEVER
<rED_HErrING> EVER!!
<tsmithe> me neither
<rED_HErrING> METHINK DOUBLEPLUSGOOD
<tsmithe> i believe it counters the spread of open source software
<tsmithe> i'll be glad when i'm convicted of thought crime. and also unglad
<tsmithe> damn i'm already using newspeak
<rED_HErrING> i disagree
<tsmithe> doubleplusunglad
<rED_HErrING> pirating software leads you to belive that ALL software should be free
<rED_HErrING> THUS
<rED_HErrING> FOSS
<tsmithe> no
<rED_HErrING> more pirating = more people who belive software should be free
<tsmithe> it makes people stick with what they have
<tsmithe> they get it for free
<rED_HErrING> tsmithe: both happen
<tsmithe> why change
<tsmithe> ok
<tsmithe> truce
<rED_HErrING> yeah
<lophyte> doubleplusgood day folks
<rED_HErrING> folks?
<tsmithe> lophyte, oh why?
<tsmithe> oh
<rED_HErrING> i dont comprehend "folks" do you mean "people"?
<lophyte> yes
<tsmithe> i thought you said "doubleplus*un*good"
<lophyte> folks.. people..everyone...
<tsmithe> how can he not know
<tsmithe> ?
<rED_HErrING> in newspeak pluswords like folks are unneccesarry and ungood
<lophyte> actually it is rather ungood
<rED_HErrING> i love that book
<lophyte> oh, sorry..
<lophyte> it should be
<tsmithe> "shoot the runner, shoot shoot the runner, i'm your king and she's my queen, bitch"
<lophyte> doubleplusgood day my comrads
<tsmithe> indeed
* rED_HErrING nods at lophyte's remark
<lophyte> its been a while since I read it
<tsmithe> winston never saw the eleventh edition, however
<tsmithe> poor dude
<tsmithe> i just finished it
<tsmithe> i intend to read it again
<tsmithe> then write an essay
<tsmithe> add it to my collection
<rED_HErrING> have fun.
<lophyte> ever read animal farm?
<tsmithe> i will :)
<rED_HErrING> course
<lophyte> its like the children's version of 1984
<rED_HErrING> i read it in 6th grade
<tsmithe> lophyte, no - i was in it. it was sad
<tsmithe> i don't wanna read it
<lophyte> you were in it?
<tsmithe> yeah
<tsmithe> i was a farmer and a pig
<lophyte> ah, lol
<tsmithe> lol
<tsmithe> as in, a play!
<tsmithe> i think communism is an ideal that won't work, but is something to strive for. it would be nice to have the means of production indeed in the power of the workers
<rED_HErrING> i belive in total and absolute freedom - anarchy if you will
<tsmithe> and for according to ability, to according to need
<tsmithe> but who decided need and ability
<rED_HErrING> i think we naturally abide by most laws
<tsmithe> so do it
<tsmithe> *i
<lophyte> I disagree
<tsmithe> that's exactly what i feel
<rED_HErrING> and the few that *need* enforcing we enfore
<tsmithe> yes
<rED_HErrING> aka stealing, murder, rape
<tsmithe> good!
<rED_HErrING> but other than those
<lophyte> oh
<rED_HErrING> its a free market
<lophyte> well then
<tsmithe> do you wanna help me start my country
<lophyte> I agree
<rED_HErrING> tsmithe: sure.
<tsmithe> we will not be calling it oceania, eastasia, or eurasia
<tsmithe> not even as a parody
<rED_HErrING> lets call it ubuntuland just for kicks
<tsmithe> GO AWAY GORILLAZ!
<lophyte> lol
<tsmithe> ok
<lophyte> ubuntistan
<tsmithe> i'm not in the mood for ripping rap rhythms
<rED_HErrING> lophyte: k.
<tsmithe> ubuntistan is a good name... since ubuntu is a good word
<rED_HErrING> tis
<tsmithe> now... we need to find a place
<lophyte> I've always wanted to look up the meaning of 'istan'.. I get the feeling it means 'land' in some arabic language
<lophyte> ISTANbul.. pakISTAN, afghanISTAN..
<lophyte> kinda like ireLAND, scotLAND.. etc.
<rED_HErrING> tsmithe: new island in the atlantic?
<tsmithe> cool
<lophyte> let's just move to the isle of man
<tsmithe> rED_HErrING, how do we check on those who commit the crimes in our anarchic system? we would need a hierarchy
<tsmithe> ok
<tsmithe> nearer home than chicago
<rED_HErrING> tsmithe: no no, hierarchy ruins most of it
<tsmithe> exactly
<tsmithe> but we would end up needing one:
<tsmithe> 1. the punishers
<tsmithe> 2. the free
<tsmithe> 3. the punished
<tsmithe> that becomes this:
<tsmithe> 1. the High
<rED_HErrING> the punishers should be a very small percentage of the population
<tsmithe> 2. the Middle
<tsmithe> 3. the Low
<rED_HErrING> exactly.
<rED_HErrING> so...
<tsmithe> and so we find ourselves in the current situation
<tsmithe> what to do?
<rED_HErrING> hrm
<rED_HErrING> so this is why i hate governments
<tsmithe> constant war to deplete the means of production?
<tsmithe> and therefore stop equality?
<rED_HErrING> sounds like a plan
<tsmithe> right
<tsmithe> call me Big Brother
<B-B> so...
<B-B> let the two minutes hate be at what time?
<rED_HErrING> lets make a total free for all
<rED_HErrING> i'd just like to see how it works
<rED_HErrING> a TOTAL and COMPLETE free for all
<B-B> ok... but then some would rise up, and overpower others
<B-B> it's unstoppable
<rED_HErrING> would they?
<B-B> unless you have people to enforce that by which it is stopped
<B-B> yes
<lophyte> you know what I'd like to see?
<lophyte> or rather
<rED_HErrING> how do you give power to people?
<B-B> what?
<lophyte> what woul be interesting to see
<lophyte> but highly illegal
<rED_HErrING> i say we elect a VERY small group of officials
<B-B> you can't
<B-B> you can only taking
<lophyte> raise a child from birth with little to no social interaction
<B-B> rED_HErrING, an oligarchy?
<lophyte> and see how they turn out
<rED_HErrING> but all they can do is arrest for murder etc.
<B-B> lophyte, the truman show?
<lophyte> no.. truman had social interaction
<B-B> rED_HErrING, or thoughtcrime?
<B-B> ok...
<lophyte> I mean.. completely isolated
<B-B> an autistic child
<B-B> ?
<B-B> you can't have that
<lophyte> hmm.. maybe.
<B-B> food?
<lophyte> food is fed through a hole in the wall
<rED_HErrING> i think when we say "taking something thats not yours" is illegal
<lophyte> like a caged animal
<rED_HErrING> we run into so many problem
<B-B> the child would die
<rED_HErrING> s
<rED_HErrING> therefore
<B-B> ...
<rED_HErrING> stealing is legal, but any means of deterring stealing is ALSO legal
<rED_HErrING> therefore if a robber comes in your house
<B-B> yes
<rED_HErrING> pwn him with a shotgun
<lophyte> but that's murder
<jenda> yay
<B-B> what if the guy kills you?
<B-B> hi jenda
<rED_HErrING> lophyte: not if hes stealing
<jenda> hello B-B
<B-B> jenda, we are forming a new country
<jenda> a micronation? neat
<B-B> have you read /the book/?
<rED_HErrING> if he murders you hes breaking a law, if you murder him cuz hes robbing you its fine
<jenda> If you need a lawyer...
<B-B> yay!
<B-B> rED_HErrING, who enforces that law?
<lophyte> rED_HErrING: okay, but then how do you prove he was robbing you?
<B-B> the High?
<rED_HErrING> B-B: the small hierarchy
<tsmithe-the-prot> damn
<tsmithe> rED_HErrING, you mean oligarchy
<rED_HErrING> lophyte: thats why you dont shoot anyone who walks in your house
<tsmithe> and they will always want more control
<tsmithe> it is in human nature: survival of the fittest
<tsmithe> you cannot have anarchy
<tsmithe> you cannot have communism
<tsmithe> you cannot have corporatism
<rED_HErrING> govermnment is doomed to fail
<tsmithe> you cannot have capitalism
<rED_HErrING> thus: anarchy
<tsmithe> thus government
<tsmithe> as a result of the anarchy
<rED_HErrING> true
<rED_HErrING> its all just a cycle
<tsmithe> this, at least, has been proven by history
* jenda mutters something about off-topic
<rED_HErrING> sin(wt) if you will
* tsmithe mutters something about jenda shutting up
<tsmithe> rED_HErrING, "sin(wt)"?
<rED_HErrING> tsmithe: physics....
<tsmithe> oh sine?
<rED_HErrING> the yeah
* jenda mutters something about tsmithe being shown the door if he doesn't behave...
* jenda hides
<rED_HErrING> i cant understand ya'll, you're muddering
* tsmithe mutters under his breath beneath his loud music
<tsmithe> so... what about democratic socialism?
<rED_HErrING> america will fail eventually
<tsmithe> yes
<rED_HErrING> its already beginning to
<tsmithe> so will new labour britain
<rED_HErrING> because its progressing towards less and less freedoms
<rED_HErrING> until people get fed up
<tsmithe> same here
<tsmithe> same here
<rED_HErrING> and we plunge back into anarchy
<tsmithe> rather like microsoft eh?
<rED_HErrING> and thus: more govermnent
<lophyte> haha
* tsmithe gets back on topic
* lophyte hi-fives tsmithe
<tsmithe> yay!
* rED_HErrING gives up and does physics
* tsmithe is too quick
* tsmithe has already done his physics
<tsmithe> moments are boring
* jenda mutters something about #politics
<tsmithe> #politics is full of evangelists
<tsmithe> and i DID bring back to topic
<tsmithe> "<tsmithe> rather like microsoft eh?"
* tsmithe thinks jenda should lighten up about the topic
<rED_HErrING> agreed
* jenda thinks some people have pointed out that the channel logs really get cluttered when we go on OT sprees :)
<rED_HErrING> no ones talking about anything GOOD right now
<tsmithe> yay!
<tsmithe> so what about logs
<tsmithe> ?
<tsmithe> eh?
<tsmithe> they're made by a machine
<rED_HErrING> this is logged?!?!?
<tsmithe> yes
<jenda> that's what ubuntulog is for.
<tsmithe> ubuntulog is here
<rED_HErrING> since when do logs prove anything.
<jenda> !enter
<ubotu> Please don't use the "enter" key as punctuation! It spams the channel and can be annoying.
<jenda> :)
<tsmithe> !enter
<tsmithe> uhoh
<tsmithe> they've come to get me...
<jenda> They are made by a machine, but read by humans.
<tsmithe> which poor soul has that tiresome job?
<tsmithe> and why?
<jenda> and utterly useless when the part after the - in the channel name is ignored...
<tsmithe> but politics IS important
<jenda> anyone who is interested in Ubuntu marketing, but does'nt hang in here, tsmithe.
<jenda> that's what it's for.
<jenda> It's not important for marketing.
<rED_HErrING> jenda: never know
<rED_HErrING> it actually might be
<tsmithe> it is
<tsmithe> it's all in the spirit of open development
<jenda> I'm not saying you can't say anything in the channel :) I'm just reminding you to keep the topic in mind.
<rED_HErrING> jenda: honestly.... you never know
<tsmithe> "bababababababababababababababababababababababababa" <- start of "English Country Garden (The Darkness)"
<jenda> honestly, I'm tired. Good night :)
<tsmithe> byee
<rED_HErrING> night?
<tsmithe> it's night in britain
<jenda> yes.
<tsmithe> and night+1 in prague
<tsmithe> "i've never seen a bail of hay move so fast"
<tsmithe> "i cherished you and you tolerated me"
<tsmithe> "in an english country garden"
<tsmithe> "jardin, jardin, jardin"
<tsmithe> "babaabababababababababababababa ba aba ba ab aba aba ba ab"
<tsmithe> ba ba ba ba ba ba
<rED_HErrING> now THAT is spam.
<tsmithe> sorry
<tsmithe> once again, it is a *good* song
<rED_HErrING> and you yelled at us for REAL talking
<tsmithe> i'd send it to you, but they say it's illegal
<tsmithe> stupid thought police
<tsmithe> uhoh
<tsmithe> i need to do it again
<jenda> tsmithe: honestly... you're over the channel limit now.
<rED_HErrING> tsmithe: you can beam it over to me via mindwaves
<rED_HErrING> thats still legal
<tsmithe> ok...
<tsmithe> rED_HErrING, you're not listening!
<rED_HErrING> oh sorry
* rED_HErrING listens
<tsmithe> in the private message window thingy
<jenda> thank you.
<tsmithe> any time ;)
<tsmithe> all you need do is ask ;)
<poningru> ...
<ttoine> hello
<ttoine> somebody here  ?
<jenda> barely....
<ttoine> i was at the uds-mtv
<ttoine> and was interested by the ubuntu marketing team
<jenda> neat-o :)
<ttoine> neat ?
<ttoine> what does it mean ?
<jenda> It means welcome ;)
<ttoine> ok
<jenda> be sure to subscribe to the mailing list too, to see what's up.
<ttoine> ok
<jenda> It's near midnight for me, and I'm slowly trying to go to bed :)
<ttoine> jenda: i am french
<ttoine> so on the same time line
<rED_HErrING> every time i see ompaul i think it says OMGpaul and i laugh
<ompaul> glad I contribute to your hilarious repository
<ompaul> :)
<ttoine> ok
<ttoine> i will come back tomorrow to chat a bit
<ttoine> bye
<rED_HErrING> ompaul: yeah, now if your nick WAS omgpaul that would be like 10x cooler
<ompaul> rED_HErrING, and my name would not be what it is .. and as the nick is based on my name ..
<rED_HErrING> true, unlike my nick
<ompaul> that is a bit of a rED_HErrING to throw into the conversation
<rED_HErrING> aye ;-) glad to see someone understands the nick
#ubuntu-marketing 2006-11-22
<poningru> rofl
<rED_HErrING> hey wheres the best place to get an ubuntu tshirt?
<rED_HErrING> hybrid: it does exist.
<Burgundavia> evening minions
<Burgundavia> :)
<Burgundavia> anybody up for some UWN hacking?
<Red_heRRing|COD> nah not tonight
<Burgundavia> right
<Burgundavia> nixternal, elkbuntu, poningru: going to slack off? :)
<Burgundavia> lophyte: yo
<poningru> alright
<poningru> sir yes sir
<poningru> ready to hack
<nixternal> ey?
<tonyyarusso> My god Burgundavia - it's like you have a direct link to my professors and schedule UWN specifically for when school is eating me alive.
<tonyyarusso> On the plus side, I already filled in some of the USNs, news, and other random items a few days ago
<Burgundavia> tonyyarusso: ok, that rocks
<Burgundavia> poningru, nixternal: sorry, sucked into pp-racer
<Burgundavia> ok
<nixternal> hahaha
<Burgundavia> let see responsive gobby.ubuntu.com is this week
<poningru> heh
<Burgundavia> hmm, not good
<Burgundavia> lets go to your server poningru
<poningru> mk
<Burgundavia> what is the IP again?
<poningru> huh... hold on
<poningru> ru@ip72-209-68-178
<poningru> password is ufl@ftw
<poningru> what week is this?
<poningru> 23?
<Burgundavia> 22
<poningru> cool
<Burgundavia> created
<Burgundavia> here are the tasks:
<Burgundavia> 1) community news
<Burgundavia> 2) update edgy/dapper chnages
<Burgundavia> 3) update USNs (if needed)
<Burgundavia> 4) bug count
<Burgundavia> 5) community news
<Burgundavia> 6) complete in the press section
<Burgundavia> 7) spell check and proof "spec of the week section"
* poningru will do usn, bug for now
<poningru> 3 & 4
<tonyyarusso> spec of the week?  that's new
<Burgundavia> i yid
<Burgundavia> it is, rather
<Burgundavia> part of communicating release goals better
<poningru> hmm nice
<Burgundavia> I want to create a LookingFowardToFeisty doc some point as well
<poningru> brb
<Burgundavia> ok, lots of urls on gobby to write about
<poningru> ooh indeed
<nixternal> how about throwing in a little blurb about how microsoft says every linux user owes them money for their intellectual property
<elkbuntu> do we really want to pollute our lovely UWN with stallman
<poningru> ...
<poningru> stallman?
<poningru> you mean balmer
<nixternal> wth
<nixternal> stallman is the gnufather
<nixternal> he has worked harder than anyone towards software freedom, even though he can be rather barbaric in some of his attmpts...i am understanding him more and more each day
<elkbuntu> right
<elkbuntu> i was reading something about stallman when you mentioned the ballmer bullshit
<nixternal> hehe
* poningru throws chair at elkbuntu 
<elkbuntu> my brain is baked the the consistancy of a custard tart at the moment
<nixternal> i think mako sells FSF/GNU better than stallman does
<poningru> mmm custard tart
<nixternal> omg custard tart!
<Burgundavia> mako is actually sane
<nixternal> hehe ya
<nixternal> but if he hangs around stallman anymore, he might lose that
<Burgundavia> nah
<Burgundavia> mako understands how to communicate to non-geeks
<nixternal> very true
<nixternal> stallman has the right ideas, just carries them out the wrong way
<Burgundavia> elkbuntu: stop procrastinating, start editing
<elkbuntu> Burgundavia, im not procrastinating
<nixternal> hahaha
<Burgundavia> not editing UWN == procrastinating
<elkbuntu> im unblocking my blog so i can check for comments
<elkbuntu> ... are we back on poningru's gobby?
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> 22
<Burgundavia> poningru: those USNs, only 12-18th are displayed
<Burgundavia> grabbing dinner, so might in and out
<elkbuntu> Burgundavia, was https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/loco-contacts/2006-November/000782.html supposed to be about the bosnian loco or the completely unrelated previous message in the thread
<Burgundavia> loco team
<elkbuntu> i might mention the youth thing, in addition?
<elkbuntu> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/loco-contacts/2006-November/000781.html
<elkbuntu> as an announcement.. maybe
<elkbuntu> i guess there's other issues it can be left for
<Burgundavia> sure
<elkbuntu> Burgundavia, news done :)
<Burgundavia> elkbuntu: thanks
<Burgundavia> can you make each news item a seperate heading?
<elkbuntu> sure
<Burgundavia> can you dive into the "in the press" section next?
<elkbuntu> k
<elkbuntu> hmmm maybe i should have looked at the list before agreeing :
<elkbuntu> Burgundavia, am i leaving your one-line comments in?
<elkbuntu> s/one/half/
<Burgundavia> those are not my comments
<elkbuntu> the articles need more than what is there, so i'll beef a bit
* poningru is diving in to press as well
<elkbuntu> poningru, see if you can figure out how to put more than half a line next to the openaddict review tihng
<poningru> openaddict?
* poningru is working from last to first
<poningru> ah ok
<elkbuntu> Burgundavia, are we doing headings for each of the news stories or not?
<elkbuntu> s/news/press/
<Burgundavia> nope, no need to
<poningru> oh...
<Burgundavia> tonyyarusso: seeing as you appear to have some free time now
<tonyyarusso> Burgundavia: Small amount, if I can multitask
<Burgundavia> sure
<Burgundavia> can you cleanup the new versions from Debian?
<Burgundavia> I need to do the rest of the feisty changes
<tonyyarusso> The string of "Accepted"s we go you mean?
<tonyyarusso> *got
<poningru> Burgundavia: can you look through that cookie summary
<poningru> see if thats how big you want it
<poningru> should it go bigger?
<tonyyarusso> IP?
<Burgundavia> perfect
<Burgundavia> tonyyarusso: see the 22 page on the wiki
<elkbuntu> tonyyarusso, poningru's
<elkbuntu> (look at his hostmask)
<Burgundavia> for the record, I still have 140 emails from feisty-changes to go through
<tonyyarusso> Jeepers.  My dad really needs a lesson in e-mail subject line writing.
<poningru> waah?
<poningru> oh yeah
<tonyyarusso> Burgundavia: Do you have something in particular in mind for "cleaning up" this list?
<Burgundavia> tonyyarusso: make certain we only list the upstream version number
<Burgundavia> so X.X-Y <-- the Y is the debian version
<Burgundavia> have it appname XX - description and/or url
<Burgundavia> and put a star with a space on either side at the beginning of each line
<poningru> do we wanna do the art-work article?
<poningru> someone else do that
<poningru> also someone who can speak dutch do https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/sounder/2006-November/009381.html
<tonyyarusso> Any reason some of these are indented an extra space or two?
<Burgundavia> simply because of copying errors
<tonyyarusso> Thought so, since I'm pretty sure the wiki ignores that anyway
<tonyyarusso> There's a youtube dl app?  Cool
<poningru> tonyyarusso: there is a youtube download firefox extension
<tonyyarusso> I should get that
<poningru> videodownloader
<poningru> https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/2390/
<tonyyarusso> ty
<tonyyarusso> What's a version number of 1.0.1.dsfg-1 mean?
<Burgundavia> 1.0.1 upstream
<Burgundavia> new tarball, because of non-free elements
<Burgundavia> first debian version
<tonyyarusso> ah
<tonyyarusso> I knew the -1 part, but not dsfg
<Burgundavia> can somebody write little pieces on those two mailing list posts in Feisty changes?
<tonyyarusso> If something has part of the version # in the app name, do I keep it there?
<Burgundavia> context?
<elkbuntu> poningru, im guessing you're gone and gotten busy, so i'm taking over your section :
<poningru> is cool
<tonyyarusso> Burgundavia: lsb-pkgchk3 3.0.3, mediawiki1.7 1.7.1
<Burgundavia> right
<Burgundavia> leave them
<tonyyarusso> 'k
<poningru> elkbuntu: /me will start the spell checking
<Burgundavia> hey Madpilot
<Madpilot> hi
<elkbuntu> someone find a dutchman for the dutch thingie and the press is done
<elkbuntu> afk
<Madpilot> hunting dutchmen is -marketing's latest hobby?
<poningru> elkbuntu++
<poningru> bwhahaha
<Burgundavia> asked in -nl
<tonyyarusso> Someone's thinking - weird
<poningru> uh...
<poningru> we are discouraging easyubuntu?
<poningru> or simple mistake?
* poningru guesses latter
<Burgundavia> where?
<poningru> just changed it
<poningru> Another review has been published at http://www.openaddict.com/page.php?26 This review is of Ubuntu 6.10 on a Dell XPS M170 Laptop. The review is in-depth and has a slightly more technical format than the one above. The review also advocates the Use of EasyUbuntu, usage of which is encouraged over Automatix.
<poningru> it was
<poningru> Another review has been published at http://www.openaddict.com/page.php?26 This review is of Ubuntu 6.10 on a Dell XPS M170 Laptop. The review is in-depth and has a slightly more technical format than the one above. The review also advocates the Use of EasyUbuntu, which again, we discourage.
<Burgundavia> we discourage both
<poningru> we do?
<poningru> why?
<Burgundavia> they both duplicate existing functionality within Ubuntu are known to cause issues
<poningru> obviously re: former charge.. the point is to make it more accesible for users, re: former didnt know easyubuntu caused issues
<poningru> err latter
<Burgundavia> "we discourage both, although EasyUbuntu is less likely to cause issues than Automatix"
<poningru> k
<tonyyarusso> Okay, there are 7 imports from Debian that don't have a URL/description still, but I got the versions and formatting done.  Could someone take care of that?  (I should get back to my electronics assignment)
<Burgundavia> ok, will do
<Burgundavia> thanks tonyyarusso
<tonyyarusso> yw
<poningru> ready to go then
<Burgundavia> about 75 left in my inbox to process
<tonyyarusso> (Ubuntufy, poningru?)
<poningru> :)
<poningru> oh
<poningru> Burgundavia: also we need the dutch translation thing
<Burgundavia> yep, but I will drop that from this week if needed
<poningru> yeah true that
<Burgundavia> poningru: can you write about those two urls I put in the Feisty section?
<poningru> looking
<Burgundavia> poningru: that isn't really breaking from convention
<poningru> k
<Burgundavia> ah, crap, missed this weeks LWN
<poningru> LWN?
<Burgundavia> linux weekly news
<poningru> you help write that too?
<poningru> isnt that paid?
<poningru> can someone run a quick spell check/grammar check on the stuff I wrote
<Burgundavia> no, but I try and make it so that the UWN hits this weeks
<Burgundavia> poningru: got it
<poningru> sweet
<imbrandon> k
<imbrandon> Burgundavia: gobby.ubuntu.com ?
<Burgundavia> nah, poningru's server
<Burgundavia>  /whois poningru for the ip
<imbrandon> k
<poningru> yeah I had no idea how to write the bling para
<imbrandon> session pass ?
<imbrandon> poningru / Burgundavia ^
<poningru> sorry
<poningru> ufl@ftw
<imbrandon> we're working on 22 right ? heheh , i get in this so late each week :)
<poningru> Burgundavia: why'd you quit?
<poningru> oh
<Burgundavia_> grumble
<Burgundavia_> machine hardlocked
<imbrandon> ouch
<imbrandon> hrm Burgundavia_ looking back really only kde 3.5.5a got uploaded
<imbrandon> the rest was all small bug fixes
<Burgundavia_> no, I have a bunch of kde-related apps
<Burgundavia_> konversation, etc.
<imbrandon> those are all sync'd
* imbrandon looks again
<Burgundavia_> sync'd still gets talkeda bout
<imbrandon> ahh ok
<poningru> :)
<poningru> we nitpick
<tonyyarusso> I'm still confused about this "Desktop Bling" stuff - I have an ATI card - what will happen for me?
<poningru> no clue... alteast mathewgarrett doesnt know
* poningru neither btw
<poningru> Burgundavia_: where were you going with that bling?
<Burgundavia_> out back, to shoot it
<elkbuntu> poningru, re easyubuntu and automatix... we frown on both equally, for diplomatic reasons that are completely lost on the automatix crowd anyway
<poningru> err the latter of which is...
<poningru> hmm
<poningru> ROFL
* poningru goes with Burgundavia_ for some grilled bling
<poningru> I like mine well done
<elkbuntu> yeah, if i find half-baked bling on my plate, i will not be happy
<poningru> yeah make sure to use the AIGLX sauce
<poningru> that old XGL sauce just doesnt cut it anymore
<Burgundavia_> too odd a taste
<poningru> indeed
* tonyyarusso wonders why we have compiz and not beryl so far
<imbrandon> because compize was arround first , is stable(er) and  someone cared enough to package it properly :)
<Burgundavia_> because compiz is only mild crack and beryl is full on ragging not-coming-back-from-this-trip crack
<Burgundavia_> raging, rather
<imbrandon> hahaha exactly
<imbrandon> i was trying to say it diplomaticly
<imbrandon> but Burgundavia_ hit the nail on the head
<elkbuntu> you only have to meet quinn storm in person to understand what happened
<tonyyarusso> imbrandon: Is that a final decision, or a how things stand now at the initial sync stage decision?
<Burgundavia_> why so?
<Burgundavia_> tonyyarusso: it is a fight between the world and mark
<imbrandon> you only have to ask him a few simple questions "why did you fork compiz" in the BoF to see why also
<Burgundavia_> the rest of the dev team is wants compiz, at the most
<elkbuntu> he... err.. she is... an interesting character
<poningru> rofl
<Burgundavia_> and given they upload to Ubuntu...
<Burgundavia_> so basically, the dev team is trying to do and end run around Mark by putting in compiz first and seeing if it sticks
<imbrandon> tonyyarusso: nothing i say is "official" but i was in the room when the decisions were being made and i can assure you it will be a cold day in hell when beryl is default in feisty
<imbrandon> Burgundavia_: compiz was in ubuntu before beryl forked
<Burgundavia_> imbrandon: yes, but the compiz was mostly beryl for a while
<imbrandon> Burgundavia: true, thats when there was only one crack
<elkbuntu> and i think we should drop this here...
<elkbuntu> before we say bad things
<imbrandon> but still its not the dev's trying to go arround mark, i think we finaly convinced him at UDS how crackfull it was, and how he made a technical decision without looking at the technical end
<imbrandon> but anyhow , its all crack and needs to die basicly imho untill it can be proven to work reliably for more than a week on 4 systems
* tonyyarusso obviously opened a much larger can of worms than he anticipated
<Burgundavia> I think this whole binary driver thing is going to die as well
<imbrandon> tonyyarusso: :)
<imbrandon> Burgundavia: yea i think so too, i can only hope on that one
<poningru> Burgundavia: sweet
<Burgundavia> I expect the reason that AcceleratedX has not been approved is because mdz is having a raging battle with Mark right now
<imbrandon> Burgundavia: yea
<imbrandon> mdz and scott both
<elkbuntu> and anyone with a clue in a position to do so
<poningru> can someone check through the bling thing
<imbrandon> hrm, i need to become a better writer, i cant think of any more kde hotness this week, i should start this brainstorm as soon as the old UWN is out each time
<Burgundavia> yep
<Burgundavia> the wiki page has been up for a week now
<imbrandon> elkbuntu / Burgundavia , mind proofing 41 , while i dig some more kubuntu stuff up
<Burgundavia> elkbuntu: can you do that? few more bits of uploads
<elkbuntu> already on it
* Burgundavia loves the riot of colours on gobby
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> i always try to use green, my fav color ( just not that shade )
<tonyyarusso> I need to pick a good color and stick with it - I'm a different one every time
<poningru> hehe
<poningru> your client should remember
<Burgundavia> I am almost always the light blue
<imbrandon> looks purple here, might be my mopnitor
<imbrandon> monitor*
<Burgundavia> must be that KDE crack :)
<elkbuntu> and i seem to go pink...
<poningru> hehe /me is always orange
<elkbuntu> one of the first gobby sessions, it was literally the boys all in blues, and me in pink :-/
<poningru> rofl
<elkbuntu> Burgundavia, remember that?
<Burgundavia> not really
* elkbuntu pouts
<Burgundavia> my memory is a seive
<elkbuntu> you pointed it out, i hadnt noticed it until you said it either
<elkbuntu> aaaaanyway
<poningru> ...
<poningru> removing dutch thingy
<poningru> objections?
<elkbuntu> leave it until we know if we can find a translator
<Burgundavia> poningru: got me a dutch speaker
<poningru> blargh?
<Burgundavia> he is incoming
<Madpilot> still hunting Dutchmen?
* poningru puts it back
<poningru> Madpilot: no dude we were hunting bling
<Burgundavia> Madpilot: you really don't read your own loco teams channel, do you?
<Burgundavia> and he arrives
<Madpilot> Burgundavia, I just got back from being afk, so no, I haven't
<poningru> dutchmen were coming for dinner
<Burgundavia> hey matjan
<poningru> *** Dutch translation assistance needed*** https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/sounder/2006-November/009381.html
<matjan> hey
<elkbuntu> make us a lovely story and we'll.. um.. shower you with huggles!
<matjan> elkbuntu, you were talking to me?
<Burgundavia> elkbuntu: you still proofing?'
<elkbuntu> Burgundavia, i'll be back to it in a sec
<Burgundavia> ok
<matjan> ahhh.. JanC
<matjan> the usual suspects
<Burgundavia> can somebody write that upcoming events article?
<matjan> Burgundavia, so what needs translation?
<tonyyarusso> matjan: See the URL poningru posted
<Burgundavia> what does the new article say?
<Burgundavia> anything different from the mail?
<matjan> you mean the first link in JanC's post?
<Burgundavia> yep
<matjan> let me check
<Burgundavia> anybody missing from the credits?
<matjan> what is translated in the JanC's post is only the first paragraph of that article
<elkbuntu> matjan, we would like the whole article :)
<matjan> ok, before when?
<matjan> and will someone else proofread?
<tonyyarusso> Is our translator in the credits?
<elkbuntu> Burgundavia, when are you sending this edition forth?
<Burgundavia> elkbuntu: in an hour
<Burgundavia> tonyyarusso: once he tells me his full name
<elkbuntu> matjan, can you do it in an hour?
<Burgundavia> matjan: we just need the gist, to write a short summary
<tonyyarusso> I'm amused by the English spelling debate we seem to have on line 29
<elkbuntu> tonyyarusso, has it been changed again?
<Burgundavia> can anybody make heads or tails of the post sent to the marketing list?
<Burgundavia> the mint and pclinuxos one?
<Burgundavia> s/?//
<tonyyarusso> elkbuntu: It's at z now
<Burgundavia> elkbuntu: UCK is z
<matjan> elkbuntu, it is already 1.50aqm here, and i am also working on some other stuff...
<Burgundavia> so we now have one of each
<Burgundavia> matjan: ok, quick summary, do the rest of the paragraphs change anything from the first one?
<elkbuntu> are you meaning in 'customise'
<Burgundavia> yes
<tonyyarusso> Burgundavia: No idea - first off, it's at #51
<Burgundavia> yep
<Burgundavia> mint has hit #1, but I don't expect that to last
<tonyyarusso> I think this person missed the point that "Linux is not Windows"
<matjan> Burgundavia, the second paragrah describes how the software was selected, that thre are no server apps, and there is a windoeze and a linux version (linux being breezy)
<Burgundavia> ah, ok
<Burgundavia> that is enough for us, thanks
<Burgundavia> I see only proofreading after that. Anybody else?
<Burgundavia> matjan: what is your full name? I need it for the credits
<elkbuntu> Burgundavia, i've sent my eyes over it, but someone needs to go over again focussing on the pink stuff.. and hopefully not americanise everything
<Burgundavia> heh
<matjan> Burgundavia, third paragraph describes in a bit more detail what 3 sorts of software that are present: 1. educational, 2. general use (office apps etc.), 3. open educational tools (information sharing, etc)
<matjan> Burgundavia, matty janssen
<Burgundavia> perfect
<poningru> elkbuntu: hehe that z was me :p
<elkbuntu> poningru, listen to the canadian and the australian, use s :
<Burgundavia> 'ecept canada uses z
<poningru> indeed
<elkbuntu> but you changed it back
<poningru> meh
<poningru> brits use s
<matjan> Burgundavia, ok, cool
<elkbuntu> poningru, we write the newsletter in english, not american
<tonyyarusso> Burgundavia: Wait, they do?  The ca spellchecking stuff says s, so that's what I've been trying to adapt to.
<poningru> blargh?
* tonyyarusso curses at the defective lightbulb
<poningru> american english is english
<poningru> :p
* poningru ruffles his feathers
<tonyyarusso> poningru: Sorry, as an American, I'm agreeing with the other folks.  Might as well do it the way the entire planet but us do.
<elkbuntu> poningru, no.. american english is american
<poningru> oh no I was agreeing with them also
<poningru> I was just 'ruffling my feathers'
<elkbuntu> the same as australian english is australian.
<poningru> i...c
<Burgundavia> ok, final spell check everybody
<Burgundavia> anybody still editing?
<poningru> reading
<poningru> oh yeah its good
<Burgundavia> ok, I need to do some dishes, so I will be back in 10 or so
<tonyyarusso> Not I, said the dinosaur
<poningru> yuhuh you have to do the dishes
<poningru> nn guys
* poningru goes off to sleep
<matjan> Burgundavia, where is the weekly news available?
<elkbuntu> matjan, always on the wiki, and https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-news/
<matjan> elkbuntu, ok, thanks
<Burgundavia> copying back to the wiki. Any objections?
<tonyyarusso> nope
<Burgundavia> you realize we right the largest and most reguarly published distro weekly news?
<tonyyarusso> s/right/write/
<tonyyarusso> I didn't know that
<Burgundavia> right
<Burgundavia> DWN is dead
<Burgundavia> GWN is intermittent
<Burgundavia> FWN is pretty short
<elkbuntu> we rock
<tonyyarusso> as usual
<Burgundavia> and away
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-marketing:Burgundavia] : Welcome to the Ubuntu Marketing Team's IRC channel | We're here to fix Bug #1 | Please sign up to the mailing list, ubuntu-marketing at lists.ubuntu.com |
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-marketing:Burgundavia] : Welcome to the Ubuntu Marketing Team's IRC channel | We're here to fix Bug #1 | Please sign up to the mailing list, ubuntu-marketing at lists.ubuntu.com | UWN 22 is out, 23 in progress
<Burgundavia> can somebody write a short piece for the fridge?
<Burgundavia> I can post it if somebody writes up something
<matjan> Burgundavia, if you need some more dutch to english translation for the UWN, just let me know...
<lotusleaf> Burgundavia: what are you looking for?
<Burgundavia> matjan: cool, tahnks
<Burgundavia> lotusleaf: look at previous articles for the fridge
<matjan> Burgundavia, cool to see my name listed there ;)
<lotusleaf> Burgundavia: ? followup of same content?
<elkbuntu> Burgundavia, is the piece for the fridge allowed to laugh at the other *WNs?
<Burgundavia> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/631
<lotusleaf> thx
<Burgundavia> something similar to that
<Burgundavia> elkbuntu: no
<elkbuntu> Burgundavia, awww.. you ruin all the fun
<Burgundavia> and you want to violate the CoC
<elkbuntu> and you think i was at any point serious... shame
<lotusleaf> Burgundavia: just a summary?
<Burgundavia> yep, just like that
<Burgundavia> elkbuntu: no context in irc
<lotusleaf> typo!: "Go some news?"
<lotusleaf> :)
<Burgundavia> where?
<lotusleaf> last part of above link u referenced
<elkbuntu> Burgundavia, you ought to know me better by now though
<Burgundavia> I should
<Burgundavia> right
* cafuego wou effe zeggen dat ie er geen tijd voor heeft.
<tonyyarusso> .....
<cafuego> re Burgundavia's request in #ubuntu-nl :-)
<Burgundavia> cafuego: welcome. Our need for a translator has passed, due to the excellent efforts of matjan
<cafuego> Cool. I was just saying I'd love to, but have no time for a few days to come
* matjan heeft de honneurs waargenomen
<Burgundavia> thanks for coming by
<elkbuntu> Burgundavia, has anyone put a call over the loco-contacts list yet?
<Burgundavia> I am sure we can rope you into something
<Burgundavia> elkbuntu: for which?
<Burgundavia> general translations?
<cafuego> matjan: purrima :-)
<elkbuntu> Burgundavia, encouraging locos to send stuff to us
<Burgundavia> elkbuntu: can you?
* cafuego disappears again
<elkbuntu> Burgundavia, was just thinking about it, yeah
<elkbuntu> Burgundavia, i'll include a call for translations as well
<Burgundavia> mention that we are looking at translations right now
<elkbuntu> yep
<lotusleaf> did anyone ever followup on the attempt to get the roughtcut poster mentioned on boingboing?
<Burgundavia> no idea
<Burgundavia> lotusleaf: how you doing?
<lotusleaf> I think it was poningru who was emailing people
<lotusleaf> Burgundavia: I haven't started on the summary, not sure what to base it on this time, is there a list of topics you'd like referenced as per the list in the fridge for last time?
<Burgundavia> look at UWN 23, grab some interesting topics and summarise it
<lotusleaf> Burgundavia: k thx! :)
<Burgundavia> no worries
<Burgundavia> poningru: when you wake up, can you cleanup the gobby session?
<lotusleaf> Burgundavia: linky to wip for #23? @ gobby loc?
<Burgundavia> uwn 23 is now live
<Burgundavia> on the wii
<Burgundavia> wiki
<lotusleaf> k thx
<lotusleaf> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue23 ??
<tonyyarusso> yes
<tonyyarusso> wait...
<elkbuntu> http://behindubuntu.org/interviews/JonoBacon/
<Burgundavia> hmm, forgot about that
<Burgundavia> next week
<lotusleaf> Burgundavia: where do I take a summary from, it looks like it's blank in the above url I referenced
<Burgundavia> lotusleaf: need to write it
<elkbuntu> Burgundavia, push it to the fridge too
<Burgundavia> sorry , https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue22
<lotusleaf> ah! :) thank you
<lotusleaf> so pull summary from #22 items?
<Burgundavia> yep
<lotusleaf> k thx
<Burgundavia> no worries
<lotusleaf> so you post summaries of UWN 3 days or so following the release #?
<Burgundavia> no, asap
<Burgundavia> challenge is finding an editor
<lotusleaf> ah
<lotusleaf> lemmie see what I can slap together
<Burgundavia> mostly I have been lazy and have not yet sorted my editing account
<lotusleaf> Burgundavia: hey, man, the more ppl who can make your work load lighter, the better, right? :)
<Burgundavia> yep
<tonyyarusso> Uh oh...
<tonyyarusso> That upgrade did not go well
<elkbuntu> Burgundavia, where should i get them to send info to? -marketing list or....?
<Burgundavia> marketing list is good
<Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LookingFowardAtFeisty <-- next big project
<Burgundavia> feel free to start writing on this one
<Burgundavia> what were the alpha releases in edgy called?
<lotusleaf> Burgundavia: will there be a UWN over the holidays?
<Burgundavia> of course
<lotusleaf> k thx
<tonyyarusso> Burgundavia: Knots.....  Didn't you _write_ the Knot reviews?
<Burgundavia> yes, yes I did
<tonyyarusso> Wow....
<lotusleaf> Burgundavia: are links within the fridge <a href=" "> blah </a> ?
<Burgundavia> afaik, yes
<lotusleaf> or should I just write (link) for you to include link
<lotusleaf> k thx
<Burgundavia> yep
<lotusleaf> "Feisty on the Schedule" or should it be "Feisty on Schedule" ?
<Burgundavia> the latter
<lotusleaf> right, you may want to fix that title on first item on #22 under GCN
<Burgundavia> can you change it?
<lotusleaf> Burgundavia: I've never edited the wiki before, do I need an account or just launchpad?
<tonyyarusso> Burgundavia: Minor punctuation issues.
<Burgundavia> just lp
<lotusleaf> k thx
<Burgundavia> tonyyarusso: fix it up
<tonyyarusso> Will do - lotusleaf, let me know when you're done so I don't mess up your changes
<lotusleaf> tonyyarusso: k thx just gimmie a few mins, first time touching the wiki :)
<lotusleaf> ack.. have to set default prefs.. :P
<Burgundavia> no you dont
<Burgundavia> ignore that
<lotusleaf> k
<tonyyarusso> Oh shoot.  I made a formatting booboo on the USNs too.
<Burgundavia> that you did
<Burgundavia> luckily that only shows up on the wiki, not on the email
<tonyyarusso> Yeah really.
* tonyyarusso hangs head in minor shame
<lotusleaf> tonyyarusso: correction made, proceed :)
<tonyyarusso> lotusleaf: Grazie
<lotusleaf> Burgundavia: does it show IP in public view as well for user?
<Burgundavia> IP?
<lotusleaf> IP address
<Burgundavia> public view for user? sorry, slowing down here
<lotusleaf> in last edited section date time user
<lotusleaf> when I mouse over the username it shows IP
<Burgundavia> hmm, no idea
<lotusleaf> perhaps it's just for my current session or for logged in users
<lotusleaf> k thx
<Burgundavia> lotusleaf: email me your stuff
<lotusleaf> Burgundavia: modding the wiki took time away, I'll have to get back to that now for the summary, I'll paste bin it
<Burgundavia> just email me, as I am going to sleep now
<lotusleaf> going back to work on that summary now ;)
<tonyyarusso> All better.
<lotusleaf> yup, it shows ips public ;P
<lotusleaf> hmm.. so it's not like wikipedia in that respect
<lotusleaf> yup, mouseover usernames without logging in, all show up: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue22?action=info
<tonyyarusso> Well, at least now it show my IP instead of yours, and I really don't care
<lotusleaf> tonyyarusso: it shows mine in the url I referenced above ^^^
<tonyyarusso> so it does
<lotusleaf> tonyyarusso: well, I do care cuz now it's g00gl3able. ;(
<tonyyarusso> Bah, oh well
<lotusleaf> indeed
<lotusleaf> Burgundavia: still awake? :)
<lotusleaf> Madpilot: ping?
<Madpilot> lotusleaf, pong - was just about to crash for the night
<lotusleaf> Madpilot: roger that, just had a gfx editor question re: roughcut designs
<Madpilot> hmm?
<lotusleaf> Madpilot: what's the best editor to use to make cool banner designs?
<lotusleaf> Madpilot: or nifty thumbnails for websites
<Madpilot> probably the GIMP, if you just want to work with the existing images. Otherwise, Inkscape.
<lotusleaf> Madpilot: k, thx, gonna check some tutorials, have a good one =)
<Madpilot> np.
<Madpilot> I will get that new banner for your website done by the end of this week, BTW.
<lotusleaf> Madpilot: thx, no rush, even if it takes you a year or so ;)
<Madpilot> no, you should have them by Saturday.
<lotusleaf> =) Awesome, thx
<Madpilot> np. Now, I need sleep. Work expects me to get up far to early.
<Madpilot> like, before 11am. ;)
<lotusleaf> Madpilot: ha, have a good one
<lotusleaf> tonyyarusso: welcome back
<tonyyarusso> :)
<lotusleaf> tonyyarusso: well my first tiny go at the ubuntu wiki was painless enough, and a little fun ;)
<tonyyarusso> lotusleaf: Good for you!
<lotusleaf> (=
<elkbuntu> lotusleaf, have you made yourself a wikipage yet?
<tonyyarusso> It's really not so bad for a while, and then you try to do something that should be simple, but is totally not intuitive - like unwikifying a NonWikiWord that it mistakenly assumes must be a WikiWord
<elkbuntu> `` is your friend
<lotusleaf> tonyyarusso: ya? :P
<tonyyarusso> elkbuntu: So I learned, but seriously, that's a whacked punctuation.
<elkbuntu> tonyyarusso, every wiki has it's quirks
<lotusleaf> elkbuntu: `` ? I see I have much to learn. About the only wiki I've edited before now was Wikipedia.
<lotusleaf> tonyyarusso: I'll stick with the light stuff, then. =)
<elkbuntu> lotusleaf, making yourself a wiki page is a good excuse to learn the wiki and experiment a bit, without imploding other people's work :)
<lotusleaf> elkbuntu: ha, no doubt, thanks ;)
<lotusleaf> elkbuntu: does that include making an ascii lotus leaf picture?
<tonyyarusso> If you want
<lotusleaf> r0x0r
<jenda> Learning the wiki is a good excuse to implode other peoples work, unless you start with making yourself a wiki page.
<jenda> }:->
<lotusleaf> ?!?! <-- floats above head
<lotusleaf> how about an #ubuntu-marketing-offtopic ? :)
<jenda> hehe :) please no. We have too many channels already.
<lotusleaf> jenda: d'oh, too late. j/k ;)
<lotusleaf> I have many an offtopic yet marketing related comment or question, I just don't know where to put it
<jenda> if it's marketing related, it's not offopic.
<danbuch929> I've already submitted a more detailed message via the mailing list about this, but for all who are interested, the current version of the DIY Marketing website is ready for a round of criticism: http://diy.devubuntu.com/
<tonyyarusso> woohoo
<danbuch929> is that a vote of confidence?  :-)
<tonyyarusso> I haven't looked yet, it's just cool that it exists
<danbuch929> ah, good...  yes, I'm thrilled that it's moving along.  Jenda's been a wonderful mentor to this noob.
<danbuch929> for those that use bzr, I've just pushed out a revision of all the sources, too
<elkbuntu> nice
<jenda> woo :)
<lotusleaf> jenda: wee
<lotusleaf> jenda: you around? I have a question re: wiki editing, very simple one
<jenda> go on?
<lotusleaf> jenda: thanks, I noticed some outdated information on a kubuntu wiki and I thought about correcting it, should I dive right in or msg a kubuntu person? I tried imbrandon but he's afk it seems. I'm new to editing *buntu wikis and wondered if the approach should be 'ask first' or dive right in?
<jenda> dive right in.
<lotusleaf> jenda: roger that, thx =)
<lotusleaf> jenda: sell all your posters?
<jenda> The kubuntu people will be notified automatically, and if you screw up, you're in trouble :)
<lotusleaf> hahaha :)
<jenda> however, the wiki can easily be reverted, so no biggie.
<lotusleaf> cool =) thx for the extra info
<jenda> 178 posters left.
<lotusleaf> cool, someone should change the # on the ubuntuforums green header info thing
<lotusleaf> that would drive up demand
<lotusleaf> :)
<lotusleaf> only ### remaining!
<jenda> hhe :)
<lotusleaf> 8)
<jenda> I have that in the thread, but I can't bother them admins each time someone buys :)
<jenda> I'll get the number changed once we are under 100
<lotusleaf> jenda: ha, true. :) have you thought about setting up some type of official ubuntu marketing on-line store?
<lotusleaf> jenda: you know, like cafepress but done differently?
<jenda> that's kind-of the diy site
<lotusleaf> ah! :)
<jenda> but it will also offer downloads.
<lotusleaf> awesome
<jenda> And the entire point is that the material is done _unofficially_
<lotusleaf> ya
<lotusleaf> I'd like to see an ubuntu logo hoola hoop :)
<jenda> as in, it's the manufacturer himself who manages all the quality control and finances, and thus eliminates the need for a QA team and a financial apparatus, reducing the strain on Ubuntu
<jenda> and throwing it on the producer...
<lotusleaf> ah, very true
<jenda> ...who is me, currently :/
<lotusleaf> jenda: do you ever take a vacation? :)
<jenda> No :)
<lotusleaf> :-)
<jenda> But I try to study in the meantime.
<lotusleaf> that's good
* lotusleaf gonna dive in the wiki ;)
<lotusleaf> thanks again for the help
<jenda> yw :)
<poningru> waah
* lotusleaf hands poningru a tissue
* lotusleaf loads psych bot 1.0
<lotusleaf> poningru: what seems to be the problem?
<poningru> rofl
<poningru> actually that was another form of wtf
<poningru> or what?
<lotusleaf> poningru: no boingboing magic :(
<lotusleaf> poningru: but hey, news about a 90 year old blogger, cool! :P
<poningru> I know :(
<lotusleaf> oh well, we tried =)
<lotusleaf> I wonder if Wil Wheaton uses Ubuntu
<poningru> no I am gonna try again
<poningru> brb
<lotusleaf> yeah? cool!
<dr_nick> hi everybody!
<lotusleaf> what's up doc?
<tsmithe> that's all wrong
<tsmithe> you're supposed hi say "hi dr. nick"
<tsmithe> do you not watch the simpsons?!
<lotusleaf> tomorrow on #ubuntu-drama, dr_nick and disco stu trade chewing gum as the sun sets
<lotusleaf> I used to watch simpsons, especially in #ubuntu-offtopic ;-)
<tsmithe> what?
<lotusleaf> tsmithe: this channel is logged, I don't want to fill it with unrelated offtopic ;)
<tsmithe> ok
<tsmithe> sorry jenda
<tsmithe> @lart jenda for the hell of it
<tsmithe> damn
<tsmithe> no Ubugtu
<elkbuntu> for a very good reason
<poningru> blargh
<tsmithe> elkbuntu, yes... "good"... "reason"...
<tsmithe> indeed...
<tsmithe> i'm sure...
<tsmithe> "good"
* elkbuntu blinks and tries to get tsmithe's point.
<tsmithe> bah
<poningru> blargh?
<poningru> you know we should get this press team thing started up
<poningru> I mean granted ceo is the biggest marketing person for a company
<poningru> but still sabdfl shouldnt have to do all the work...
<elkbuntu> poningru, i think it's a bit more complicated than that
<poningru> well yeah
<poningru> I wanted to start with local press
<tsmithe> press team
<tsmithe> count me
<poningru> in?
<tsmithe> in
<poningru> :p
<tsmithe> yes in
<poningru> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/PressTeam
<poningru> we need to change mathew as lead
<poningru> if no one is willing to step up
<poningru> I am willing to do it
<tsmithe> i am also... but i have no time
<tsmithe> so i am a bad choice
<poningru> the problem is
<tsmithe> don't pick me
<tsmithe> yes, poningru
<poningru> I will be absent sometimes I will be absent for like 2 weeks or so
<poningru> due to tests/papers
<poningru> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/PressTeam/EPK
<poningru> that is what I wanted to push for edgy
<tsmithe> same
<tsmithe> o
<tsmithe> k
<poningru> but I never got to it
<poningru> and so I am thinking lets do that for Feisty
<tsmithe> i can write a "press release" with ease
<poningru> yeah I think canonical writes the press releases
<tsmithe> damn
<tsmithe> so what's that page in aid of
<poningru> the problem is getting them to the local pres
<poningru> s
<tsmithe> i'd write my own
<poningru> yeah... except we have to talk to canonical about this
<tsmithe> every loco team should have a press-release-dude who sends out these to the local press
<poningru> Burgwork^^
<tsmithe> even if it's just the standard canonical (pun, eh!) release
<poningru> err that should have been for jono except he isnt here
<Burgwork> right
<poningru> right translation etc. for the local press
<Burgwork> the press team should go a collect somebody from each loco to help them get into the local press
<tsmithe> that's what i said
<tsmithe> any other points, any one?
<tsmithe> this should have a spec
<poningru> when is loco team meeting?
<Burgwork> you need to go to each loco team and ask them
<tsmithe> not during school heures hopefully
<tsmithe> indeed
<poningru> tsmithe: can you add howto write your own press release onto that page?
<poningru> the EPK
<tsmithe> poningru, i will, maybe tomorrow
<poningru> cool thanks
<tsmithe> gotta go to bed. do homework
<tsmithe> etc
<poningru> I will talk to jono or elkbuntu
<poningru> true
<poningru> where are you from?
<tsmithe> kent
* poningru is from florida us
<poningru> kent?
<tsmithe> you should know where it is
<tsmithe> i know where florida is
<poningru> too many kents around dude
<tsmithe> *the* kent
<tsmithe> original
<poningru> like the one in UK?
<elkbuntu> poningru, the guy has .uk hostmask
<tsmithe> not like
<poningru> or the one in US
<poningru> oh...
<tsmithe> there is only one kent
<poningru> :(
<poningru> hehe
<poningru> there is a kent in the US
<tsmithe> it's fickle
<poningru> somewhere in northern US near the lakes iirc
<poningru> anyway should we write up a spec for this?
<tsmithe> yes
<tsmithe> loco-press-releases?
<poningru> yeah allows us to communicate with canonical much easier
<poningru> sounds good
<tsmithe> indeed
<poningru> I will work on that today
<tsmithe> it should have the contents of EPK on it?
<poningru> hmm that was mostly written up to help people
<poningru> the spec should have more than that
<tsmithe> Indeed, but: Implementation
<poningru> as in what we are trying to accomplish etc.
<poningru> arr?
<tsmithe> e-mail me the address of the spec
<elkbuntu> poningru, how's your loco going?
<poningru> k
<poningru> elkbuntu: hehe
* poningru shies back into the corner
<poningru> elkbuntu: would it be possible for you to talk to jono? I would... its just I have no clue how to contact him except through email
<elkbuntu> talk to him about what?
<poningru> the spec
<poningru> err nm
<poningru> I will email to the loco team
<poningru> list
<tsmithe> which loco team?
<elkbuntu> tsmithe, loco-contacts@l.u.c
<poningru> THE loco list
<tsmithe> oh right
<poningru> yeah
<tsmithe> i better sign up to that list
<poningru> hehe
<poningru> yeah I will work on this tonight
<tsmithe> tonight or today?
<poningru> err its only 1730 here
<tsmithe> ah... i dunno ;)
<poningru> so toinght
<poningru> err tonight
* jenda just got back from the first ever Czech LoCo meeting :)
<tsmithe> lol
<poningru> ooh nice
<tsmithe> how'd it go?
<poningru> jenda: physical meeting? 0.o
<tsmithe> sounds like it
<tsmithe> to get back from...
<elkbuntu> you people with tiny countries are so lucky
<poningru> yeah
<jenda> poningru: yes!
<tsmithe> wow
<jenda> there were...
<jenda> an unbelievable..
<jenda> 5 of us!!!
<tsmithe> elkbuntu, is england tiny in your reckoning?
<poningru> tsmithe: very
<elkbuntu> tsmithe, yes
<Burgwork> all you people have it easy
<Burgwork> I have people seperated by 6000km
<tsmithe> which people?
<poningru> hah the US is frackin huge
<poningru> rofl
<tsmithe> yeah...
<tsmithe> but for a place hundreds of times the size
<tsmithe> it only has 5x the population
<tsmithe> so england is more crowded
<poningru> true
<poningru> jenda: where was it?
<poningru> which city?
* poningru assumes Prague
* tsmithe is of the accord
<jenda> poningru: you assume right
<jenda> We don't have any other cities:)
<poningru> hehe
<elkbuntu> Burgwork, all due respect dude.. perth -- sydney isnt a whole lot better... the actual milage becomes a moot point when it takes more than a day to drive
<jenda> In fact, Prague is the biggest village ;)
<poningru> rofl
<tsmithe> i live on a farm ;)
<Burgwork> elkbuntu:  but most of your population is in one strip
<elkbuntu> a doglegged one
<tsmithe> meh
<tsmithe> i'm off
<elkbuntu> actually.. a dog leg with two knees
<tsmithe> will help with loco-press-releases tomorrow
<poningru> nn dude
<tsmithe> coolio
<poningru> Burgwork: look who's talking
<poningru> canada is an entire strip
<poningru> population of*
<Burgwork> east coast of aussie is shorter than the canadian one
<poningru> its a very wide strip but still...
<poningru> hmm true
<elkbuntu> Burgwork, adelaide is quite fruitful for us too, you know
<poningru> hehe I have a friend in adelaide
<poningru> originally from sydney
<poningru> he runs plugindoc for mofo
<elkbuntu> Burgwork, when this finally loads, it's probably about a third of our LoCo Population irc+list http://www.frappr.com/UbuntuAustralianTeam
<jenda> elkbuntu: no forum?
<elkbuntu> jenda, going through the debating about whether we need one
<elkbuntu> jenda, we tend to speak the same language as ubuntuforums.org
<jenda> indeed
<jenda> you can request an english subforum there, though, if you want :)
<jenda> Many english-speaking teams have.
<elkbuntu> jenda, yes, but i am highly cautious about getting involved with ubuntuforums at the moment
<poningru> yeah same here
<poningru> I dont have good experience
<poningru> with the admin
<elkbuntu> poningru, for completely different reasons
<elkbuntu> well.. mostly different
<jenda> poningru: it's changed a lot :)
<jenda> (ever since I'm staff)
<poningru> woah
<jenda> :-D
<jenda> just kidding - I had little impact
<poningru> cc just put up an office in brisbane
<elkbuntu> poningru, ooh?
<poningru> http://creativecommons.org/weblog/entry/6159
#ubuntu-marketing 2006-11-23
<Burgwork> http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/node/1890 <-- we should probably respond to this
<tonyyarusso> Burgwork: Why does that demand a response from us?
<poningru> because we are cool like that
<poningru> what are we talking about?
<tonyyarusso> poningru: http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/node/1890
<tonyyarusso> Burg quote: "<-- we should probably respond to this"
<poningru> hmm
<poningru> sigh
<poningru> brb
<elkbuntu> im not seeing a need to respond to it either. counter philosophise, maybe, but not respond directly
<poningru> WHAT
<poningru> thats...
<poningru> wow
<poningru> excuse my wandering from the coc path for a second here but...
<poningru> thats utter bull
<poningru> hey guys anyone mind if I make a press team under marketing team in lp?
<poningru> is that even possible?
<poningru> jenda: ping
<poningru> anyone ping
<poningru> I need to know how to make an email for the press team
<poningru> HALP
<tonyyarusso> poningru: Like a mailing list?
<poningru> I guess so
<poningru> when I tried making an lp team
<poningru> it asked for a contact email addy
<poningru> but I couldnt put mine own email addy
<tonyyarusso> poningru: Yeah, that's a LP bug.  Dennis tells me the only way around it is if you have multiple addresses to use another one.
<poningru> ...
<poningru> lame
<Madpilot> hi all
<elkbuntu> hi Madpilot
<wiiprush> elkbuntu: awake?
<elkbuntu> wiiprush, good chance of it
<Madpilot> wiiprush, has Nintendo sponsored your new IRC nick?
<wiiprush> elkbuntu: http://www.whiprush.org/2006/11/an_event_captur.html
<wiiprush> Madpilot: temporarily, yes.
<elkbuntu> wiiprush, lol
<wiiprush> heh
<poningru> rofl
<elkbuntu> wiiprush, we could do a whole album of embarrassing jono pics too... the bottle dance photos.. the one with him between the pole dance girls, http://www.flickr.com/photos/sfllaw/297147144/in/set-72157594375723807/
<wiiprush> yeah
<wiiprush> I didn't want to go too far
<elkbuntu> hehe
<elkbuntu> i think he'll be copping enough just from the bottle dance pics
<wiiprush> those are some good pics though
<elkbuntu> hell yeah
<wiiprush> http://www.flickr.com/photos/sfllaw/298880931/in/set-72157594375723807/
<wiiprush> that one is so awesome
<elkbuntu> niiice
<elkbuntu> i havent been right through simon's pics yet
* poningru wants those tshirts
<imbrandon> wiiprush: you see this http://boycottnovell.com/2006/11/22/suse-ubuntu/
<wiiprush> yeah
<imbrandon> "ubuntu trumps suse" ^^ and "freesuse.com bought, will there be a fork soon?" ^^
<wiiprush> this entire 3 weeks has been nothing but ridiculousness
<imbrandon> yea really
<wiiprush> I don't even know if that's a word
<imbrandon> i think it will go on for about 6 to 9 months then we'll see whats really gonna happen
<imbrandon> hahaha
<wiiprush> there was one dude I was laughing at out loud
<wiiprush> sec
<wiiprush> this is classic
<imbrandon> i FINLAY bought the offical ubuntu book and jono's php book today, hopefully they will be here before next week
<elkbuntu> imbrandon, i've had the official ubuntu book on order since like 3 weeks before UDS
<imbrandon> lol
<elkbuntu> im starting to think about going and harrassing them
<imbrandon> i had a copy a while back but i gave it away at our lug as a "prize"
<imbrandon> now this one is for me
<elkbuntu> aha :)
<wiiprush> http://boycottnovell.com/2006/11/22/suse-ubuntu/
<wiiprush> oops
<wiiprush> wrong url
<wiiprush> sec
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> i was like umm thats what i just pasted :)
<wiiprush> http://lovesunix.net/blog/?p=150
<wiiprush> "3) Replace Beagle with Tracker, it.s saddens me a bit to be honest. I generally like Mono and I.m a huge C# syntax fan. But it just kills small rigs and with the now imfamous Novell/Microsoft deal the legal aspect of Mono is once again in limbo as I understand. The saddest thing for me about removing Mono from my system had to be loosing Banshee. I grew really fond of the 0.11 series, it was nice and stable and it has the be
<wiiprush> so this dude
<wiiprush> reads like /. or something
<wiiprush> and is like "I am going to remove mono."
<imbrandon> hahaha
<elkbuntu> rofl
<imbrandon> dude do they not realize mono is a ecma standard ?
<imbrandon> err c#
<imbrandon> 1934 iirc , i might be wrong on the number
<wiiprush> this entire novell thing is awesome
<imbrandon> but still
<wiiprush> you have these people like "fuck suse, they made a deal with MS."
<wiiprush> and we ship more mono stuff on our CD than anyone.
<imbrandon> right
<imbrandon> heh
<poningru> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/loco-press-releases
<imbrandon> not only that , if they actauly read the novel stuff it was all about the IP /novell/ owns in MS office, not the other way
<imbrandon> wiiprush: ^
<imbrandon> balmer just fucked up, and its funny that MS made another press release saying so
<imbrandon> errr CoC , i dident say F*cked
<wiiprush> dude ballmer has been rattling that IP sword for going on two years now.
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> if not more
<imbrandon> and its funny when the other hand realeases things like windows ce6 opensource, the right not knowing the left hand is doing
<imbrandon> etc etc etc
<imbrandon> its all the old timers at MS thats screwing things up
<wiiprush> well, what kind of pissess me off
<wiiprush> is that novell is obviously listening to its customers
<imbrandon> if MS released every bit of code GPL today except MS office and made MS Office use ODF , they would make billions
<wiiprush> they don't care about what we care about
<imbrandon> and billions more
<imbrandon> right
<wiiprush> they just want their shit to work
<imbrandon> exactly, they dont care HOW
<imbrandon> just that it DOES
<wiiprush> and for better or worse novell tries to fulfill that need.
<wiiprush> because they do afterall, have to make money
<imbrandon> kinda like the OSX crowd, its unixy enough for geeks but JUST WORKS, and i think thats whats picked up apple in the tech crowd lately
<wiiprush> well, I won't go that far.
<wiiprush> but I will say that novell and MS are listening to customers
<wiiprush> and customers don't care about the gpl
<wiiprush> or freedom
<wiiprush> or whatever
<wiiprush> they want their shit to work.
<imbrandon> well not in the same respects, the do when it effects their pocketbooks later but they dont think about that untill two years into the lockin
<imbrandon> when something go's wrong
<imbrandon> but yea , thats pretty much the whole thing, they dont really care
<imbrandon> they just want shit to work
<imbrandon> in the long run i think its gonna create 3 teirs of OS's instead of mostly 2 now , there really is 3 now but it will be blured even less in the months to come
<imbrandon> in that .....
<imbrandon> you have MS windows ( / OSX )
<imbrandon> then you have linux with openly closed source crap by big guys like novel
<imbrandon> and the gap between them and like ubuntu or debian will widen as they wont ork togather as much
<imbrandon> anhd you'll have free in every sense of the word os's
<nixternal> you guys have read the statement about ballmer saying it is possiple that every developer owes microsoft money over intellectual property?
<imbrandon> all three exist today but the line between the linuxe's is blurred
<wiiprush> imbrandon: it's funny you mention that
<imbrandon> and it wontbe imho
<imbrandon> in the time to come
<wiiprush> "openly closed source crap" = novell
<wiiprush> it takes an MS deal to make everyone switch from suse
<nixternal> NSOSS == Not So Open Source
<wiiprush> you'd think YAST would have been a better reason
<imbrandon> right, thats what i mean, it exists today , but this will widen the gap
<imbrandon> and make people look more closely i think
<imbrandon> and essentialy creat two teirs of linux
<wiiprush> "i've had enough of Novell being an MS lapdog, I'm switching to kubuntu."
<imbrandon> heheh :)
<imbrandon> hrm, i never really put that into so many words, maybe i'll make a blog post about it and see if i can get soem feedback
<imbrandon> ( and not a flamewar )
* imbrandon grabs a mt dew and opens wordpress
<imbrandon> hey wiiprush you've written for some magizines right ?
<imbrandon> ( spelled correctly of course )
<imbrandon> brb mt dew
<wiiprush> imbrandon: a few
<poningru> anyone have any opinions, rants about that spec?
<jenda> poningru: Are you sure it would require a subteam?
<elkbuntu> omg, it's a matthewrevell!
<jenda> omg :)
<jenda> Hello matt.
<matthewrevell> Hello peeps
* matthewrevell coming out of hermit-like status
<elkbuntu> :)
<elkbuntu> are you a daddy by now?
<tonyyarusso> We'd be seing hundreds of links to flickr albums if so
<tonyyarusso> *seeing
<elkbuntu> tonyyarusso, not necessarily
<tonyyarusso> Well, if any of the new parents I've known are any indication
<matthewrevell> elkbuntu: Note yet. He's overdue by one day now.
<matthewrevell> s/note/not
<elkbuntu> matthewrevell, aha.
<elkbuntu> i suspected as much, since i'm sure jono would have mentioned something if it had happened
<elkbuntu> or we would have seen a blog
<elkbuntu> or something
<matthewrevell> Yeah, I imagine I'll post a blog entry :)
<tonyyarusso> I was overdue by five days.
<tonyyarusso> My older sister came five _weeks_ early.
<elkbuntu> i was overdue by 10 days
<tonyyarusso> I was also really mean in the size department...
<jenda> My nephew was huge.
<jenda> 4.8 kg
<tonyyarusso> Hold on, let me convert
<tonyyarusso> jenda: 4.37 for me
<jenda> huge too :)
<tonyyarusso> yep
* jenda is shipit for the Czech Republic.
<jenda> So far, it's a profitable business :-D The people tend to send more than asked for, because they're surprised that the CD come even if they don't pay anything.
<tonyyarusso> You mean you send them before payment?
<jenda> yes
<jenda> I barely even ask for a payment.
<tonyyarusso> cool
<KenSentMe> jenda: ping
<jenda> KABOOM
<KenSentMe> aah
<KenSentMe> I've received the ubuntu stickers today, but i didn't get the posters
<KenSentMe> Did you send them together?
<jenda> patience... ;)
<jenda> yes
<KenSentMe> Ah, ok
<jenda> I doubt they were processed together, though.
<KenSentMe> Well, just checking if maybe something went wrong
<KenSentMe> But i'll be patient then ;)
<jenda> give it a few more days ;)
<jenda> Enjoy the stickers in the meantime.
<jenda> How are they?
<KenSentMe> I sure will
<KenSentMe> They look good
<KenSentMe> Haven't tested them on my car yet :)
<jenda> Please do tell how they cope ;)
<jenda> They are high-quality MenZa-work.
<KenSentMe> jenda: well it's the right season for wheater testing. It rains all day here in holland
<jenda> beautiful :)
<KenSentMe> Too bad my car is in the garage for broken windshieldwipers
<jenda> ooh :(
* MenZa bounces on jenda
<jenda> ocuh
<jenda> ouch
<poningru> hehe
<poningru> yarr
* lotusleaf flaps arms and gobbles
* MenZa shoots lotusleaf and cooks him
<lotusleaf> lol
<lotusleaf> I must be the only one in the States on freenode right now
<lotusleaf> ompaul: yo
<MenZa> gnewsense
* MenZa shakes head sadly
<ompaul> MenZa, why would you?
<ompaul> seems like a waste of effort
<ompaul> lotusleaf, evening
<MenZa> ompaul: no, my belief that, at this point, a computer cannot be used completely running only free software combined with the fact that my doctor's instructed me to get more excercise, yes.
<MenZa> s/yes/I don't think so
<MenZa> ._.
<ompaul> MenZa, I don't know, the chairman of the board told me this very evening that I would be installing gnucash for him for one of his projects
<ompaul> MenZa, and he has a dislike of not having choice that is what has build the company from 3 guys 25 years ago in a depression starting out on their own and now having 70 people working for them
<ompaul> he wanted choice
* poningru is home helping his mother cook teh turkey
<poningru> though its already done
<poningru> and I already set the table
<poningru> so its all good
<ompaul> turkey hu?
<ompaul> well here is one for ya
<poningru> so yeah happy thanksgiving everyone
<ompaul> we don't eat turkey today
<poningru> arr?
* poningru gets confoozled some by omgpaul
<ompaul> it ain't no thanksgiving day here
* ompaul points to the fact that I never once stepped foot inside the US
* MenZa pets ompaul's Irishmanship
<MenZa> I think?
<ompaul> correct
<MenZa> Huzzah!
* ompaul plays U2 18
* MenZa does so also
<MenZa> I dunno, War was better.
<MenZa> :p
* MenZa puts on Vertigo anywho
<ompaul> ohh this is not somewhere else ;-)
<ompaul> we are slightly offtopic
* poningru wonders where omgpaul is
<poningru> dude...
<poningru> gnusense???
<MenZa> poningru: ...omgpaul?
<MenZa> ROFL
<jenda> MenZa: just got a packagy-pack.
<jenda> thanks :)
<MenZa> not at all
<MenZa> :)
<MenZa> 'scuse the wrapping
<MenZa> Did it at work, was lazy
<jenda> I totally love the wrapping.
<jenda> anything arrive on your side yet?
<MenZa> jenda: nope
<jenda> aww
<jenda> few more days, I guess.
<poningru> MenZa: thats his new name
<poningru> its omgpaul
<MenZa> jenda: :D
<jenda> 
<tsmithe> ping poningru
<jenda> MenZa: would you like to sell those stickers yourself, if there's still demand once I run out?
<jenda> The kinda rock, you know :)
<MenZa> jenda: possibly, I'm very busy :\
<poningru> tsmithe: ping
<poningru> errr pong
<tsmithe> which stickers are these?
<tsmithe> poningru, hang on
<jenda> big round logo stickers.
<tsmithe> cool
<tsmithe> linky?
<tsmithe> poningru, I added some points to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/PressTeam/EPK as i said i woud
<poningru> anyone know of a method to wget a site.com/something/*
<poningru> sweet
<tsmithe> anything else to add?
<poningru> thanks man
<poningru> working on the spec
<tsmithe> cool
<poningru> look on the loco-press-release spec
<tsmithe> will do
<poningru> forgot the nam eof it
<tsmithe> lol
<jenda> poningru: downthemall firefox extension works great.
<jenda> poningru: please consider not creating a sub-team on launchpad - we would soon have a million :)
<tsmithe> poningru, you should really link the spec to the wiki page ;)
<tsmithe> so i can see it, and add my comments
<tsmithe> oh, and jenda, how do i check out a bzr branch?
<poningru> jenda: hmm ok
<tsmithe> bzr co <what?>
<poningru> tsmithe: true that
<jenda> tsmithe: the http://URL of the branch
<Burgwork> poningru: only create a seperate team if you already have a large number of people that don't seem to fit into the marketing team
<Burgwork> which you probably don't
<jenda> poningru: OTOH, don't feel obliged to follow what I say ;)
<tsmithe> what would the url be for the diy site stuffs then, jenda?
<jenda> ah
<jenda> https://code.launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-marketing/+branch/spreadubuntu/spreadubuntu
<poningru> hehe
<tsmithe> jenda: sorry - i just worked it out ;)
<tsmithe> thanks anyway
<jenda> np
* tsmithe installs bzr on his server so he can see the code in action ...
<tsmithe> urgh branch is big
<tsmithe> ah well
<tsmithe> this first slog is the longest
<jenda> yeah, it's over 100 MiB, sorry :)
<tsmithe> so that's 10 minutes on this connection
<tsmithe> not too bad
<tsmithe> err... on that branch, the posters page isn't up to date
<tsmithe> can't we keep everything in one place?
<tsmithe> surely that's the point of version control
<tsmithe> never mind
* tsmithe was looking in the wrong directory
<tsmithe> :P
<tsmithe> hang on
<tsmithe> that's not up to date either
<tsmithe> ...
<poningru> grr I am gonan put this upto a vote
<tsmithe> poningru, what?
<Burgwork> poningru: hmm?
<tsmithe> "gonan"? vote?
<poningru> gonna
<poningru> :P
<poningru> email the -marketing to ask if we should make a press team
<tsmithe> ok
<Burgwork> poningru: voting is a sign that consensus has failed
<poningru> yeah
<poningru> I think I am just gonna make the team
<Burgwork> poningru: you only need a team if you have a large number of people that don't clearly fit within the marketing team
<Burgwork> which I don't see
<tsmithe> can someone with access to that branch update it? i'm just checking out dan buch's branch to see if that is more up to date, although launchpad suggests otherwise
<jenda> tsmithe: the bzr branch isn't as up-to date as the diy.devubuntu.ftp - that's a working version.
<poningru> Burgwork: the problem is that not everyone in marketing wants to be involved in press stuff
<Burgwork> poningru: so
<tsmithe> jenda, i think you meant ".com" ;)
<tsmithe> plus, where does that get it's source from?
<Burgwork> I don't much care about diy stuff, but that doesn't mean I have a seperate team for it
<tsmithe> not bzr?
<poningru> Burgwork: oh not diy
<poningru> Burgwork: this is for portion of marketing to work with canonical
<jenda> tsmithe: yes, .com
<Burgwork> all marketing works with canonical to some degree
<jenda> and it gets source from ftp, by dan and me.
<tsmithe> bah
<poningru> so that we can do things like localized press releases at the same time
<tsmithe> jenda, that's no good!
<poningru> Burgwork: right
<Burgwork> that is simply a project with the marketing team
<tsmithe> jenda, what if others want to help?
<jenda> tsmithe: it's a working version, and it's a lot faster than bzr'ing
<poningru> right... but we can be a subset of marketing team
<Burgwork> as a project
<Burgwork> there is no need for YAT
<jenda> tsmithe: then they ask, and we start coordinating.
<poningru> but it would'nt be just another project
<jenda> I guess we could open a new branch. I'll contact the launchpad folks.
<Burgwork> yes it would
<Burgwork> poningru: it is no more unique the diy or the UWN
<tsmithe> jenda, indeed... but bzr is more open... and if people aren't happy with it, its speed looks set to improve
<tsmithe> and i'd like to help
<tsmithe> jenda, why a new branch? we already have a few
<jenda> One branch for the website, one branch for the content. Makes sense to me - what do you say, tsmithe?
<tsmithe> sounds good
<tsmithe> but we should also clean up the old branches
<jenda> I don't know any other branches.
<tsmithe> err...
<tsmithe> https://code.launchpad.net/products/spreadubuntu/+branches
<tsmithe> there are five there
<tsmithe> one mature, two abandoned, two new
<jenda> the umag is abandoned.
<tsmithe> ok
<jenda> fixed
<jenda> ok, we're close to the two branches needed.
<tsmithe> i just fixed it!
<Burgwork> poningru: honestly, you don't need another team
<jenda> tsmithe: we both did, then :)
<tsmithe> lol
<jenda> poningru: I'll second that :)
<jenda> poningru: I'd be starting Spreadubuntu team #3 by now.
<tsmithe> so.. we gonna use dan's "CMS-ified" branch for the site, and yours for content?
<jenda> pretty much.
<tsmithe> right ho
<jenda> although dan put his branch under his name.
<jenda> one of the abandoned branches is my first SU branch - under my name, I moved it to teh MT later.
<jenda> This way, only he has access.
<jenda> (I think)
<tsmithe> right
<tsmithe> it should be set to the team
<jenda> And even if not, it's better if it's /ubuntu-marketing/
<tsmithe> yeah
<poningru> Burgwork: I was hoping to make press team do more than just that project though
<poningru> like actually act as the contact for media
<Burgwork> poningru: what else are they going todo? write press releases?
<jenda> we've been down this road before
<jenda> er... I have.
<tsmithe> what road?
<Burgwork> press releases and contacts to the media should be handled by canonical
<tsmithe> poningru's?
<Burgwork> in non-english, they should be handled by the locoteam
<jenda> I tried to open a press team under the old mark eting team forum, and it was what began the argument between the 'leader' and me.
<jenda> err... I _opened_, not tried to.
<tsmithe> argument? leader?
<jenda> And a few days later, he took the entire thing down :)
<jenda> Yes, but that's half a year pass now.
<jenda> He was a self-invited Marketing Team Leader. And self-banished later on.
<tsmithe> you know, i've never seen a fetch phase other then 1/4
<jenda> and did it finish?
<jenda> the other three phases aren't 'fetch'
<tsmithe> it always finishes
<jenda> good
* tsmithe is just co'ing dan's branch
<poningru> frack
<poningru> I dont know whether to make a team or not now
<poningru> Burgwork: right
<poningru> but I dont think loco team members would want to do press release stuff
<Burgwork> make a project, it is less work
<Burgwork> if it turns out you need a team later, it is easy to create one
<tsmithe> poningru, who do you think wants to do the press release stuff?
<poningru> marketing+locoteam members
<tsmithe> but you don't think loco team members would want to do press release stuff!
<tsmithe> so us?
* tsmithe thinks, nay, *knows* bzr is slow
<tsmithe> argh!
<Burgwork> any translated press releases should be closely coordinated with canonical
<tsmithe> yes
<Burgwork> and people can wear many hats, some of which overlap
<Burgwork> I am both a Canadian and Marketing team member
<Burgwork> however, there is no need to create a marketing-canada team for marketing in canada
<Burgwork> this is similar
<tsmithe> i am a briton and marketing team member
<tsmithe> and there is no uk-marketing team
<Burgwork> nor should there be
<tsmithe> when there is a need for one, we will have one
<tsmithe> not until then
<tsmithe> crazy lag of doom!!!
<poningru> sorry my cousins are here
<poningru> so I will be in and out
<poningru> hehe my aunt is interested in ubuntu
<jenda> show her ;)
<poningru> I am
<tonyyarusso> poningru: Set up a digital projector and put it on the big screen for everyone to watch!
<jenda> woohoo
<jenda> please vote: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=305605
<tonyyarusso> So apparently people are actually noticing my little Ubuntu display, even if the CDs aren't flying out of it yet.
<tonyyarusso> The little page explaining what it was disappeared, and I had two people come find me to ask today.
<tonyyarusso> Gotta print off another one tonight.
<poningru> rofl
<tonyyarusso> Burgwork: Re: press releases earlier, I've found the press releases Canonical sends out with new releases are not well-suited to people that have never heard of open source, Linux, or even know the distinction between "the computer" and "Microsoft Windows".
<Burgwork> tonyyarusso: given they are aimed at the tech press, I am not surprised
<tonyyarusso> Burgwork: Nor am I
<tonyyarusso> We need press releases from somebody that are aimed differently, whether it's Canonical that writes them or community folks.
<Burgwork> probably
<Burgwork> I have poked Christina at canonical several times, asking her to introduce herself, to no end
<Burgwork> just did so again
#ubuntu-marketing 2006-11-24
* tsmithe needs sleep
<poningru> gaaah
<poningru> Burgwork: whats her email?
<poningru> we should probably talk to jono if she isnt responding
<Burgwork> poningru: christian armstrong
* poningru lps
<poningru> is it christina or christian?
* poningru goes with the former
<Burgwork> the former
* poningru cant find her email
<poningru> frack
* rjian hello people
<poningru> allo
<tonyyarusso> hi
<rjian> hello poningru
<rjian> hello tonyyarusso
* poningru tries to figure out where he has seen rjian
<poningru> you dont hang out on moznet do you?
<poningru> doh
* poningru feels stupid
<poningru> nm
<rjian> poningru: from iosn ang sfd
<poningru> hehe yeah
<rjian> ahihi
<rjian> poningru: sometimes here.. :)
<poningru> yeah
* rjian FOSS thing is rocking now around the world. :)
<rjian> poningru: from where are u?
<poningru> florida us
<poningru> north america
<rjian> ah ok..
* rjian hmmm another activity from a FOSS world..
<tonyyarusso> Where they can't seem to manage voting, and the people they elect contribute to the eventual drowning of the state ;)
<rjian> tonyyarusso: what do u mean? their places?
<tonyyarusso> rjian: Letting global warming continue
<rjian> tonyyarusso: hmm ah ok..
<rjian> tonyyarusso: from wer are u?
<tonyyarusso> rjian: From MN, currently in ON
<rjian> tonyyarusso: ah ok... i thought ur from ASIA HEHE
<towsonu2003> hi
<Red_Herring> hi
<MenZa> hi
<Burgundavia> hi
<towsonu2003> I've got a question about the 23rd issue of the newsletter...
<Burgundavia> shoot
<towsonu2003> could you check out the news item on Kurdish Ubuntu
<towsonu2003> is it explanatory enough? I mean
<towsonu2003> for people outside Turkey etc
<towsonu2003> ?
<towsonu2003> here's its link by the way ( :) ) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue23#head-590a33f069e5a84dfdeaba9ffd29f10511eac350
<towsonu2003> did I loose you?
<Burgundavia> nope
<poningru> I think you did
<poningru> :(
<Burgundavia> looking and thinking
<poningru> what are we talking aboot?
<Burgundavia> the words are a little short
<Burgundavia> might want to fluff them out a bit
<Burgundavia> crap. I clear my inbox and 10 minutes later I have 15 new messages
<elkbuntu> Burgundavia, so long as i can understand the info, i can deal with fluffing
<Burgundavia> ok
<Burgundavia> I like fluffy people :)
<elkbuntu> hehe
* towsonu2003 needs a dictionary now...
<elkbuntu> towsonu2003, to look up what we mean by fluffing? we mean add more to it so it looks bigger
<towsonu2003> ah okay
<elkbuntu> think of how a bird puffs its feathers out.. sort of like that
* poningru tries to figure out what we are talking about
<elkbuntu> hahaha
<elkbuntu> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue23#head-590a33f069e5a84dfdeaba9ffd29f10511eac350
<towsonu2003> what kind of info would you like to see in there?
<towsonu2003> lol
<towsonu2003> the original news is *really* short :)
<poningru> I walk in and its towsonu2003 asking someone if he lost them
<towsonu2003> poningru, lol heheh
<poningru> then people start talking about fluffing up words/people
<elkbuntu> towsonu2003, we'll ask you if we need to
* poningru fluffs up elkbuntu 
<elkbuntu> Burgundavia, if you can put a heap of idea links down like there was this past edition, i'll work on writing them up. that worked really well
<Burgundavia> towsonu2003: the main things I see are consistency of language (Ubuntu in Kurdish vs Kurdish Ubuntu)
<towsonu2003> elkbuntu, okay then, just add a note to that news item -I'm already subscribed to it... Burgundavia, I'll fix that now...
<Burgundavia> also maybe another sentence, as it is a bit short right now
* towsonu2003 having trouble coming up with a new sentence
<towsonu2003> :)
* towsonu2003 done
<towsonu2003> Burgundavia, if you think any info is missing in the item, just add a note there -I'm subscribed to it bc it is a bit controversial
<Burgundavia> ok
<Burgundavia> thanks for giving us some news
<poningru> Burgundavia: is it herd or hurd?
<Burgundavia> herd
<Burgundavia> hurd is vapourware
<poningru> :p
<poningru> just fixing up couple of stuff on the marketing team
<poningru> page on the wiki
* poningru hugs nixternal 
<poningru> hope you are ok
<elkbuntu> Burgundavia, are you still around?
* elkbuntu grumbles at Burgundavia's connection
<poningru> if you noticed that was client quit...
<elkbuntu> i wasnt paying that much attention
<ttoine> hey people
<ttoine> i have an idea
<ttoine> what about having an icon on the Ubuntu desktop after installation that will launch a small gui to register the computer and user on Ubuntu Counter ?
<MenZa> I like it
<ttoine> that would be great, because only a few people know about its existance
* MenZa pokes jenda repeatedly
<MenZa> choo think?
<ttoine> what mean choo ?
<jenda> ouch!
<jenda> I like it.
* MenZa nods excitedly
* jenda pokes elkbuntu repeatedly
<lotusleaf> ttoine: "I am not a number, I'm a free man!"
<tonyyarusso> I'm doubtful.  Certain folks aren't fond of the idea of cluttering the desktop.
<jenda> indeed...
<jenda> I'm not exactly for that, but I think there should be some sort of wercome page, and this should be included.
* MenZa nods
<ttoine> lotusleaf: it is why we must think about how to name that
<ttoine> not jsut "register my comuter"
<ttoine> "welcome" sound good to me
<tonyyarusso> MenZaLap: , jenda , lotusleaf Re: the welcome thing earlier - what if it was a first-run-only thing for not automatically, nor on the desktop, but the first time they clicked the little "?" icon in the panel that's in Edgy?
<jenda> hey
<jenda> that's a good idea
<tonyyarusso> I'll see if I can figure out who to talk to about that
<jenda> ok
<MenZaLap> hmm
<MenZaLap> Just a Welcome dialogue on boot, with a small tickbox in the corner that allows you to enable auto showing upon start, or not?
<tonyyarusso> perhaps
<tonyyarusso> Maybe it could even be enabled or not with a checkbox in the live CD installer
<lotusleaf> tonyyarusso: sounds cool, especially if it was an optional thing like popularity contest and the kde first time wizard
<tonyyarusso> lotusleaf: Is popcon in the installer?
<tonyyarusso> I'm also not familiar with KDE's thing - details would be appreciated
<somerville32> You might look at xubuntu-welcome-centre
<lotusleaf> tonyyarusso: I believe it's installed by default but I don't believe it's on by default, is it? There's an option to disable/enable it though
<lotusleaf> tonyyarusso: I think with the previous release of Ubuntu it was on by default
<tonyyarusso> lotusleaf: Where is the option located?
<lotusleaf> dpkg -l popcon
<lotusleaf> tonyyarusso: hmm.. I forget
<lotusleaf> tonyyarusso: I saw it in something when I used Gnome but I'm in KDE now
<tonyyarusso> Okay
<lotusleaf> found it
<lotusleaf> Software Sources -> Statistics
<tonyyarusso> ah
<lotusleaf> http://popcon.ubuntu.com/
<lotusleaf> the url of which is now included in !popcon
<jenda> mmm
<jenda> A tube costs $1
<jenda> that means shipping A2 posters is entirely possible...
<jenda> mmm
* jenda slaps his hand.
<jenda> No!
<somerville32> :] 
<MenZaLap> Yes jenda!
<MenZaLap> Doooo eeeeet
<jenda> nooo
<jenda> I couldn't sell near enough.
<somerville32> I'll buy 20
<jenda> really?
<somerville32> Depends if they're good or not
<jenda> you can buy 20 A3 posters now, you know that, right? :)
<somerville32> Where?
<jenda> for $25
<jenda> lemme link
<jenda> http://doc.ubuntu.com/~marketing/DIY%20Material/Batch%201,%20Posters/HanZo/poster-layout.jpg
<jenda> where?
<jenda> here:
<jenda> <---
<somerville32> I want to put Ubuntu posters all over my city, haha
<jenda> I've already sold 277, and people seem to be happy with them :)
<somerville32> Is A2 bigger then A3?
<jenda> yes - twice
<somerville32> Maybe I could find a local printer and do it super cheap, haha
<jenda> Dimensions: 297 mm x 420 mm (11.69" in x 16.54" in)
<jenda> A3
<jenda> That's what I did - doesn't $25 for 20 posters seem super cheap? :)
<somerville32> http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/iso-paper.html
<jenda> yep
<jenda> theoretically, I could go down to $20, but it would be _really_ close, and I'd probably end up in the red because of the currency conversion, transfer and other fees.
<jenda> So - the price is $25 for 20, if you want them, drop me a line ;)
<somerville32> Can I pay with paypal?
<jenda> of course
* somerville32 checks his paypal balance and notices it is $133.77 CAD
<somerville32> Hmm...
<somerville32> How much are the A2?
<jenda> I don't have any A2 :)
<jenda> That was just a theoretical musing.
<somerville32> :] 
<MenZa> Another reason I love Ubuntu so much.
<MenZa> If someone asks me something I cbf to do, I tell them there's an Ubuntu meeting coming up
<MenZa> works every time
<MenZa> :d
<somerville32> cbf?
<jenda> hehe :)
<MenZa> can't be fucked.
<MenZa> :p
<jenda> !language
<ubotu> Please watch your language and keep this channel family friendly.
<jenda> 
<somerville32> :)
<somerville32> How do you do the little smile thinger?
<jenda> hehe
<jenda> i have it on my keyboard.
<jenda> I made the layout myself.
<somerville32> hehe
<somerville32> Jenda: Where do you live?
<jenda> somerville32: Czech Republic
<somerville32> How long to ship to Canada?
<MenZa> somerville32: A week, two perhaps
<jenda> usually about a week, yes.
<jenda> MenZa: anything yet?
<MenZa> none
* jenda grunts
<jenda> You'd be the first not to receive a shipment.
<MenZa> oh, it'll get here
<jenda> I sure hope so :)
<tsmithe> ping poningru
<poningru> tsmithe: pong
<poningru> heh good timing just woke up
<tsmithe> how's the spec
<poningru> oh did you work on it?
* poningru checks
<poningru> stupid lp it takes forever to load
<poningru> uh...
<poningru> tsmithe: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/loco-press-releases
<poningru> I didnt really work on that
<poningru> after wards
<somerville32> I want to help out with marketing.
<somerville32> IS there a nice todo list?
<tsmithe> did you link it to the wiki
<poningru> tsmithe: not yet... doing it now
<tsmithe> cheers i might work on it
<poningru> sweet
<tsmithe> still not linked ;)
<poningru> done
<tsmithe> wow jenda... quit?
<tsmithe> you didn't link it to that page did you!
<poningru> rofl
<tsmithe> i thought you were writing a spec spec
<poningru> blargh?
<tsmithe> you what?
#ubuntu-marketing 2006-11-25
<tsmithe> wow - nothing for an hour...
<tsmithe> or three
<poningru> rofl the opensuse email is hilarious
<tsmithe> where can i find it?
<Burgwork> see planet ubuntu
<Burgwork> I just blogged about it
<tsmithe> cool - havent checked lifrea for ages
<theCore> How much time do you think will it take that post makes the front page of Digg and cie?
<theCore> bets are open
<lotusleaf> theCore: if it's the one I mentioned in #ubuntuforums and #ubuntu-offtopic re: ubuntu open week, hopefully very soon
<lotusleaf> theCore: someone submitted it before I could, otherwise I would've submitted a link directly to the wiki page ;)
<theCore> lotusleaf, that is certainly bad marketing
<lotusleaf> theCore: what is
<theCore> personally, I find it was a really bad move from sbdfl
<theCore> er, sabdfl
<theCore> lotusleaf, posting it on Digg
<elkbuntu> theCore, why?
<lotusleaf> theCore: I don't know who posted it to digg, but I don't see how that could be bad, it's a news site
<lotusleaf> theCore: and marketing is directly related to news :)
<lotusleaf> theCore: unless mimes are deployed
<theCore> It will probably give to Ubuntu a pretty bad image
<elkbuntu> theCore, and you had the desire to enhance the problem by digging WHY?
<theCore> elkbuntu, no, I would never post that on Digg
<lotusleaf> theCore: I don't see how informing people about something is giving it a bad image, could you please enlighten my understanding of your position, please?
<elkbuntu> lotusleaf, do you have much grasp of inter-distro politics?
<lotusleaf> elkbuntu: yes, and I try to avoid politics ;)
<tonyyarusso> I think it just has a bad tone to direct it specifically at suse people like that.  I would have been more comfortable with the announcement with the implied understanding that they may be the sort of people he was talking to, without just saying it, much less putting it in the title
<lotusleaf> tonyyarusso: I don't, how did Corel Linux benefit from the Microsoft/Corel partnership six years ago?
<elkbuntu> lotusleaf, well, sabdfl basically announced that we are holding an open week to poach OpenSuSE developers
<theCore> elkbuntu, that isn't how SuSE's developers took it
<tonyyarusso> theCore: You've heard from some of them?  Please do share.
<elkbuntu> theCore, how did they take it then?
<theCore> elkbuntu, it was plain trolling for them
<lotusleaf> theCore: are you a suse developer?
<theCore> http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/2006-11/msg03789.html
<theCore> lotusleaf, no
<theCore> http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/2006-11/msg03788.html
<theCore> ^^ Novell's position
<lotusleaf> theCore: were the Novell/Microsoft talks prior to the public announcement secret or open?
<lotusleaf> theCore: if secret, what does this say to an "open" community?
<lotusleaf> what does this say to "open"suse?
<lotusleaf> perhaps the developers should think of that, first
<elkbuntu> theCore, it goes deeper than that. that was ONE person's response
<theCore> lotusleaf, I don't really care about the Novell/Microsoft agreement. Although, I care very much about the community spirit that should be shared across distros
<theCore> elkbuntu, they're all the same
<theCore> elkbuntu, some even taught it was a spammer
<lotusleaf> theCore: so if the Novell/Microsoft agreement was reached through secret talks, and you care about the community spirit, what do secret talks (IF they were secret) mean for an open community's spirit?
<theCore> check the thread: http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/2006-11/threads16.html
<lotusleaf> theCore: check the talks
<lotusleaf> theCore: were they secret? do you know?
<lotusleaf> theCore: before anyone starts on what Mr. Shuttleworth recently said, I'd focus on whether or not secret talks were held
<elkbuntu> theCore, trust me on the fact that it's being seen as more than trolling.
<theCore> elkbuntu, I hope so
<elkbuntu> theCore, i think you misunderstand me. they're seeing past the trolling aspect to the poaching aspect
<theCore> oh
<lotusleaf> it made front page
<lotusleaf> on digg ;)
<theCore> crap...
<theCore> #2 position ...
* theCore see the holy war coming
<elkbuntu> theCore, now you're seeing it
<tonyyarusso> I don't think I've been around to understand what's going on...
<tonyyarusso> Can someone summarize background/issues for me?
<lotusleaf> tonyyarusso: read about the "talks" between Novell/Microsoft before the news went public
<lotusleaf> were these secret talks or public?
<theCore> tonyyarusso, http://www.advogato.org/person/Burgundavia/diary.html?start=113
<theCore> lotusleaf, no idea
<theCore> lotusleaf, I bet they were secret
<lotusleaf> doesn't sound like something I'd want in an open community
<theCore> I rarely seen public corporate deals
<theCore> Canonical as a good load of private talk behind the scenes too
<lotusleaf> theCore: have you read about the Corel/Microsoft partnership six years or so ago?
<elkbuntu> theCore, that's a given. there's a limit to *how* open you can be
<theCore> I'm glad to see that Digg folks react pretty well
<lotusleaf> theCore: it should be interesting to compare the novell/microsoft recent history a few years from now to the corel/microsoft partnership, be sure to bookmark appropriate links for a cross comparison ;)
<theCore> They like Ubuntu, and hates Microsoft
<theCore> lotusleaf, maybe
<theCore> elkbuntu, I know and I understand that it's normal for any organizations of have some privacy
<elkbuntu> theCore, there's a good proportion of people reading that then dissolving into fits of manical laughter
<lotusleaf> "Will Corel be the first to bring Linux to the .Net platform? Rene Schmidt: Well, if I have anything to do with it, I think I would like to, for sure. " http://archives.cnn.com/2000/TECH/computing/10/16/corel.linux.on.ms.idg/index.html
<lotusleaf> "In terms of Wine itself, we still support it; we have been working with the community to come up with a 1.0 version of Wine"
<lotusleaf> we saw where Corel Linux and Wine support went didn't we
<lotusleaf> a lot of people were excited then, thought maybe Windows<->Linux would progress
<lotusleaf> and look what's happening now
<lotusleaf> bookmark corel/microsoft related news to compare to novell/microsoft news, I tell you
<theCore> lotusleaf, hopefully, you are wrong...
<theCore> losing Novell would bad for the business image of Linux
<lotusleaf> theCore: hopefully convicted monopolies change
<lotusleaf> theCore: really? I disagree
<lotusleaf> theCore: where was Novell in the Linux game prior to SuSE?
<theCore> lotusleaf, I don't see how it could help
<theCore> lotusleaf, having big companies on our side is a good thing
<lotusleaf> theCore: adhering to a correct philosophy is the right thing
<theCore> lotusleaf, sure
<lotusleaf> so, if a certain large corporation was interested in windows<->linux working together, why wasn't this done around six years ago with Corel Linux, which was a debian based distribution with an easy-to-use graphical installer?
<theCore> ok, I am off
<tonyyarusso> I'm still lost on the background of intro-distro politics and what's going on here
<theCore> I think it would be better to wait. Right, it is just unproductive and useless
<theCore> Right now/
<lotusleaf> and, on the same subject, if a certain large corporation was interested in windows<->linux working together, then what happened here?: "Gentoo Linux founder quits Microsoft" http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/linuxunix/0,39020390,39252292,00.htm
<lotusleaf> theCore: we've already waited
<lotusleaf> theCore: six years ago with the corel/microsoft partnership
<lotusleaf> theCore: and now the people who care about open source are acting
<theCore> lotusleaf, the "open source" term is dead, if what you say is true. Microsoft wash it with bleach until it's all white and then they will put their evil sauce on it.
<lotusleaf> theCore: lol, yeah, and bsd is still reported as dying by some :P
<lotusleaf> ?"
<lotusleaf> "Robbins told ZDNet UK in an email on Monday that he decided to leave because he was not able to use all his technical skills in his role."
<lotusleaf> ^^ from the last link I referenced here above
<lotusleaf> wow, that's odd
<lotusleaf> theCore: it'll take people who resist, like gandhi, to continue fights for freedom
<theCore> lotusleaf, eh
<lotusleaf> theCore: and before you make any additional comments to me, please answer the questions I posed to you earlier which remain unanswered, thanks. :)
<theCore> lotusleaf, are you talking about Richard M. Stallman?
<lotusleaf> ^^ see above
<theCore> which question?
<lotusleaf> theCore: if you were following the discussion, you should know, I'm not going to go back again.
<theCore> about BSD?
<lotusleaf> no, further back.
<theCore> <lotusleaf> theCore: I don't see how informing people about something is giving it a bad image, could you please enlighten my understanding of your position, please?
<theCore> that one?
<lotusleaf> theCore: there were a couple of others, but that may have been one of them.
<lotusleaf> theCore: if you don't have the time, since you said "<theCore> ok, I am off" that's fine, please don't feel obligated to respond.
<theCore> *sigh*
* theCore hates being under the gun
<tonyyarusso> We're falling from the digg front page at least
<tonyyarusso> 6th
<lotusleaf> "Government lawyers want to know more about a deal in which Microsoft gave Corel, perhaps best known for its WordPerfect program, $135 million in exchange for 24 million shares of Corel stock last October.""After the investment, Corel announced it would retreat from developing software designed to run on the Linux operating system, which competes with Microsoft's Windows operating system."
<lotusleaf> http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A5576-2001Feb14&notFound=true
<lotusleaf> I rest my case
<theCore> lotusleaf, The leadership of Linux won't be gained by acting like pre-scholars. Microsoft's developers are smart. They have good engineers, good PR firm, and a ton of money. To win, our only weapon is cooperation. That's the meaning of free software, to improve and share back. We certainly won't get that by posting stories about the inter-distro wars. Novell's decision was certainly motivated by something we don't know;
<theCore> I doubt they aren't aware of how the Corel/Microsoft turned out. So, that why we should abstain from messing up in their things. Instead, we should spend our time making Ubuntu rocks the world.
<theCore> Hopefully, that should answer your questions
<theCore> </end of the big rant>
<lotusleaf> theCore: where did cooperation get OS/2?
<lotusleaf> theCore: cooperation?: http://www.groklaw.net/staticpages/index.php?page=2005010107100653
<lotusleaf> theCore: the open source community knows how to cooperate
<lotusleaf> theCore: I'd say it's past time for someone else to learn how
<lotusleaf> theCore: again, I use the gandhi comparison, to resist
<theCore> lotusleaf, what about zealot and all the other people that poisons communities?
<lotusleaf> theCore: some called gandhi a zealot too
<lotusleaf> theCore: sticks and stones
<lotusleaf> theCore: most people don't know what a philosophy is, let alone to know what it's like to live with one
<lotusleaf> theCore: if "Microsoft's developers are smart. They have good engineers, good PR firm, and a ton of money" why don't we see Corel Linux and Wine today being developed by Microsoft?
<lotusleaf> again, from the washingtonpost.com article I quoted ""After the investment, Corel announced it would retreat from developing software designed to run on the Linux operating system, which competes with Microsoft's Windows operating system.""
<lotusleaf> does that sound smart to you?
<theCore> lotusleaf, I'm well aware that Microsoft do not play nice with other companies. I am also against the Novell/Microsoft deal, but that doesn't mean I would go troll on their mailing list.
<lotusleaf> theCore: is an extended hand a troll?
<theCore> lotusleaf, Microsoft is a cooperation. They are there to make money.
<lotusleaf> theCore: so was Enron
<tonyyarusso> lotusleaf: When it's phrased like it was, probably
<theCore> lotusleaf, they certainly don't care about open source
<theCore> lotusleaf, They only want their monopoly, to make more money.
<lotusleaf> anyway, I'm getting sleepy
<theCore> me too...
<lotusleaf> I just hope everything works out, I used to use SUSE, for years actually, prior to Novell coming into the SUSE scene
<theCore> ok, I am off for real now
<lotusleaf> theCore: have a good one
<theCore> good night lotusleaf
<lotusleaf> ;)
<lotusleaf> Madpilot: yo
<Madpilot> hi lotusleaf
<ulinskie> hello I got a question
<ulinskie> can I sell tshirts that has the ubuntu logo in it
<ulinskie> ?
<ulinskie> considering that I won't change anything in the logo?
<Madpilot> ulinskie, you'll need to contact Canonical, but yes, you can. See http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/TrademarkPolicy/
<tonyyarusso> I think they basically hand out an "OK" rubber stamp to anyone who asks that's doing something legit.
<Madpilot> I think so, yeah. trademark@ubuntu.com
<Burgundavia> lotusleaf: sorry, I missed your message with the pastebin
<Burgundavia> next time
<lotusleaf> Burgundavia: hi, oh, do those expire?
<lotusleaf> Burgundavia: I sent you a memo
<Burgundavia> no, I got it
<Burgundavia> but the fridge has already gone live
<lotusleaf> Burgundavia: oh, apologies, I should've e-mailed you as you requested. I will e-mail you next time. =)
<lotusleaf> Burgundavia: thanks for following up. ;)
<Burgundavia> no worries
<ulinskie> thanks Madpilot
<Burgundavia> hmm, greg k-h has a good post about companies
<Burgundavia> http://www.kroah.com/log/2006/11/24/#community
<Burgundavia> basically a commentary on Novells recent moves
<lotusleaf> Burgundavia: are you familiar with the Corel/Microsoft situation six years or so ago and Corel Linux and Wine in relation?
<Burgundavia> not much
<lotusleaf> ah
<lotusleaf> it's delicious when compared to current events
<Burgundavia> didn't Corel sponsor Wine developers?
<lotusleaf> here's a few to check out on the subject:
<lotusleaf> http://archives.cnn.com/2000/TECH/computing/10/16/corel.linux.on.ms.idg/index.html
<lotusleaf> http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A5576-2001Feb14&notFound=true
<lotusleaf> http://www.forbes.com/2000/10/03/1003corel.html
<lotusleaf> that's just a few, there are plenty more
<lotusleaf> "Government lawyers want to know more about a deal in which Microsoft gave Corel, perhaps best known for its WordPerfect program, $135 million in exchange for 24 million shares of Corel stock last October.""After the investment, Corel announced it would retreat from developing software designed to run on the Linux operating system, which competes with Microsoft's Windows operating system."
<lotusleaf> ^ from the washingtonpost link
<Burgundavia> ah, interesting
<lotusleaf> I say, set your bookmarks to the corel/microsoft related links, and compare them years from now to novell/microsoft
<Burgundavia> makes for a facinating blog post
<lotusleaf> if Microsoft wanted to bring Windows and Linux together, why didn't they do it when they partnered with Corel around six years ago? (if, indeed, it was a partnership, correct me if I'm wrong please) Does anyone remember Corel Linux? It, like Ubuntu, was a Debian based Linux distribution, with an easy to use graphical installer! And this was around six years ago! Anyone who wants to gain an enlightened perspective can
<lotusleaf> google about Corel Linux and Microsoft and inform themselves. Here are a few important articles:
<lotusleaf> yup
<lotusleaf> I was going to do a long article on it but I got bored and quit
<Burgundavia> oh the delicious irony
<lotusleaf> indeed
* Burgundavia goes to blog
<lotusleaf> back then people were excited (and some, divided) thinking Corel/Microsoft would be a big Windows<->Linux togetherness love-in
<lotusleaf> be sure to include: http://www.groklaw.net/staticpages/index.php?page=2005010107100653
<lotusleaf> for further enlightenment =) corel mentioned there too
<Burgundavia> oh, even more delicious. Corel bought WordPerfect from Novell
<lotusleaf> =)
<Burgundavia> One thing is clear. Linux stands to become the latest in a string of abandoned revival strategies for Corel.
<Burgundavia> s/Corel/Novell
<lotusleaf> I love the mention of wine 1.0 around six years ago
<poningru> yarr
<lotusleaf> in the cnn link
<lotusleaf> poningru: yo
<lotusleaf> and, on the same subject, if a certain large corporation was interested in windows<->linux working together, then what happened here?: "Gentoo Linux founder quits Microsoft" http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/linuxunix/0,39020390,39252292,00.htm
<lotusleaf> IMO I don't see how anything good can come from the novell/microsoft partnership
<lotusleaf> not looking at history
<poningru> well no I do see something good coming from it
<poningru> the CIO's that are too stupid to be anything but 'real corp', 'anti-GPL' may finally see some legitimacy in linux
<lotusleaf> poningru: I think more people should be informed about the Corel/Microsoft past, believe me, Corel Linux was miles ahead of other Linux graphical installers for ease of use, there was even a Corel Linux for Dummies book
<lotusleaf> sure, Corel Linux eventually turned into Xandros, but that's not the point
<lotusleaf> And where did the Wine support from Corel go?
<lotusleaf> a lot of people joke about M$ and for years have compared it to The Borg from ST:TNG, yet they continue to buy xboxes and other products from them, even if they dislike the company. They forget lesson one regarding "The Borg" in ST:TNG, and that is that you have to resist.
<poningru> <joke>but...but... resistance is futile</joke>
<lotusleaf> :')
<elkbuntu> Burgundavia, do we want to work on the UWN?
<Burgundavia> yep, but right now I am cooking dinner and writing a completely hilarious blog post
<elkbuntu> lol
* tonyyarusso looks forward to it
<tonyyarusso> I should really do a worthwhile blog post...it's been a while
<elkbuntu> when you've finished doing those ever so important things, pipe some of your 'this would be good for the UWN' mail my way for me to work on writing out
<lotusleaf> Burgundavia: if it's re: the corel/microsoft thing, please make it a beauty ;)
<Burgundavia> i am trying
<lotusleaf> Burgundavia: want additional links?
<lotusleaf> Burgundavia: it'll take me a little while, but I can google more up
<Burgundavia> sure
<lotusleaf> Burgundavia: I'm on it. =)
<lotusleaf> the ghost of linux past: "By early 2000, Corel also will have its graphics software available for Linux, including CorelDraw, PhotoPaint, and Ventura, he said." http://news.com.com/2100-1040-224462.html
<lotusleaf> i'll pastebin the rest when I'm done collecting ;)
<poningru> indeed
<poningru> hmm didnt know corel was such a big linux comp back in the day
<tonyyarusso> I'm still off-balance from someone sending me files created with Paint
<lotusleaf> comedy gold: "Are all Corel applications going to be available for Linux?Yes, absolutely. We are also considering acquisition of other applications of Windows to port over to Linux, to make our portfolio even more complete." http://linuxgazette.net/issue50/advani.html
<poningru> wow
* poningru is still off-balance from the email sabdfl sent to opensuse people
<tonyyarusso> Me too
<poningru> I love the email a 'Shark Muddleworth' sent to the -devel list
<tonyyarusso> It seems out of character
<poningru> tonyyarusso: indeed
<Burgundavia> no, it is completely within character for Mark
<Burgundavia> he decided he wanted OpenSUSE developers and so he went for them, 2 feet in
<tonyyarusso> Well, the deciciveness maybe, but not the rudeness.
<lotusleaf> haha: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=10799&cid=398300
<lotusleaf> "1) Corel announces intent to work with Linux. 2) Microsoft invests in Corel. 3) Corel backs off on Linux. 4) Microsoft pulls support because of DOJ pressure. 5) Corel re-affirms Linux commitment. I feel like a pattern is emerging."
<poningru> Burgundavia: hehe someone just linked to your blog post on osnews
<poningru> not the main article but a comment
<Burgundavia> ah
<poningru> http://www.osnews.com/permalink.php?news_id=16562&comment_id=185218
<lotusleaf> as I mentioned earlier, corel linux for dummies: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0764506676/ref=cap_pdp_dp_0/102-6158738-3031347
<poningru> nice
<Burgundavia> yep, saw it
<Burgundavia> the number of interconnecting lines between Corel and Novell is stunning
<Burgundavia> "Corel Corporation has entered into what it calls a strategic alliance with Microsoft which will lead to the Canadian companys in"volvement in Microsofts .NET initiative
<Burgundavia> "The
<Burgundavia> deal we did with Microsoft was to give us
<Burgundavia> access to the .NET functionality that they are
<Burgundavia> developing"
<Burgundavia> s/.net/patents/
<lotusleaf> ok here comes a pastebin of links for you, these are just a few I found, there's plenty more (though I expect a lot of them to mysteriously vanish in the future like some links I've found in the past casting any negative light)
<lotusleaf> !pastebin
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (be sure to give the URL of your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<lotusleaf> Burgundavia: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/33847/
<lotusleaf> enjoy ;)
<lotusleaf> <Burgundavia> the number of interconnecting lines between Corel and Novell is stunning
<lotusleaf> ^^ indeed
<Burgundavia> even the dates match up
<lotusleaf> Burgundavia: received pastebin page okay?
<Burgundavia> yep, got it
<Burgundavia> thanks
<lotusleaf> awesome, yw
<elkbuntu> are you doing it in http://bash.org/?610847 format?
<Burgundavia> close
<Burgundavia> there is just so much to talk about
<Burgundavia> how to boil it all down to something readable
<lotusleaf> "feed, feed, feed a fire"
* lotusleaf rubs hands together
<Burgundavia> however, we must all remember: Hug a Novell engineer today. It's not their fault
<Burgundavia> from #gnome-hackers topic, posted by jdub
<lotusleaf> :P
<poningru> bwhahahahaha
<elkbuntu> hehehe
<Burgundavia> ok, this no heat thing sucks
<Burgundavia> it is Nov, in Canada, and I have no heat in my house
<Burgundavia> and THERE IS NOTHING I CAN DO ABOUT IT
<elkbuntu> that's a bit stupid of you
<elkbuntu> :( why not?
<Burgundavia> landlord promised us a new furnace in sept, cause ours is dead
<Burgundavia> it is now nov
<lotusleaf> Burgundavia: ever considered one of those corn burning heaters?
<Burgundavia> ummm
<Burgundavia> I live in a house in a city, not a shack
<tonyyarusso> Burgundavia: We had a similar situation, but less crucial than a furnace.  I just gave them the list of things that needed to be done before I would write the next check.
<Burgundavia> I have things like electricty and the interweb
<lotusleaf> Burgundavia: correct, it's not a ghetto stereotype
<Burgundavia> we plan on that, as well
<elkbuntu> Burgundavia, go buy a $30 bar heater until then
<lotusleaf> Burgundavia: one of the shows I was watching had a family heating their 2 story home with it, cheaper than regular heating
<Burgundavia> given I only pay $250/month and the rest of the house is quite nice
<Burgundavia> elkbuntu: we have one of those
<elkbuntu> wow... that is pretty decent
<Burgundavia> given average rent is $400 for a room around here, ya
<Burgundavia> I left a very scathing message on my landlords phone today. the new furnace was supposed to be installed today
<Burgundavia> the third time he has promised us a date and failed to deliver
<Madpilot> Burgundavia, you still cuddling your laptop to keep warm down there?
<Burgundavia> pretty much
<Burgundavia> Madpilot: if your house was in a reasonable part of town, I would come over
<lotusleaf> "Shelled Corn   7000 BTU/lb (16,200 kJ/kg) at 15% Moisture Content" vs. "Wood   8000 BTU/lb (18,500 kJ/kg) Air Dried" http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/engineer/facts/93-023.htm
<tonyyarusso> Burgundavia: You've let heat go for two months without being more drastic?  You're a more passive person than I'd be.
<lotusleaf> that's an ancient article, but one example
<Burgundavia> tonyyarusso: he has kept promising dates and failing to deliver
<Madpilot> Burgundavia, time to sit on the December rent cheques, me thinks.
<tonyyarusso> Burgundavia: For sure
<Burgundavia> we cannot legally sit on the rent cheque, but I intent to extract money from him
<Burgundavia> intend, rather
<tonyyarusso> And subtract $25 per day from what you owe him until it's installed.
<tonyyarusso> We can legally do whatever the hell we want - no lease, and it's _really_ hard for them to kick us out with Ptbo's tenant law
<Burgundavia> bc is a bit stricter
<Burgundavia> bloody liberals
<Madpilot> capital L on that, please.
<Burgundavia> sorry, yes
<poningru> dude just buy old boxen
<poningru> have them all running folding@home
<elkbuntu> Madpilot, bLoody liberals?
* elkbuntu runs
<poningru> rofl
<poningru> thats what I do
<poningru> I mean our temp lowest is like 4degrees
<Madpilot> Burgundavia, there you go, buy a couple of those older Intel CPUs infamous for being stupidly hot. Who needs a furnace?
<poningru> exactly
<poningru> and you are doing some good
<elkbuntu> and running up the electricity bill
<Burgundavia> right
<lotusleaf> or just jumprope on some suse cds
<Burgundavia> be nice
<poningru> elkbuntu: same amount as the heater
<lotusleaf> hey, I used suse for years, well before novell came into the picture =)
<lotusleaf> besides, i didn't even mention my red letter N angry puppet
<Burgundavia> I am shocked that the mark stuff has not yet hit /.
<poningru> indeed
<elkbuntu> Burgundavia, same
<Burgundavia> it has hit the front of digg
<poningru> lotusleaf: your what?
<lotusleaf> Burgundavia: what else is new, sometimes it takes days
<Burgundavia> http://digg.com/linux_unix/Mark_Shuttleworth_Ubuntu_welcoming_OpenSUSE_developers#c3967652
<Madpilot> night all (yes, I know it's early, I've got to be up @ 0600...)
<lotusleaf> Burgundavia: gee, I wonder who could've written that :P
<Burgundavia> elkbuntu: how did you get sucked into running that LoCo stuff
<lotusleaf> Burgundavia: have you read the goetia?
<Burgundavia> no
<elkbuntu> Burgundavia, i was not aware of how it was going to be promoted
<Burgundavia> right, but did jono approach you?
<elkbuntu> yes
<Burgundavia> hmm, I never got an email. Odd
<elkbuntu> Burgundavia, he didnt email me. he asked me a few days ago
<Burgundavia> ah
<Burgundavia> that would be it
<Burgundavia> I have been off irc for a few days
<elkbuntu> it's been mostly hush-hush until his (jono's) blog post yesterday
* lotusleaf jumps rope for awhile :)
<elkbuntu> afk a bit
<towsonu2003> hi
<Burgundavia> hey towsonu2003
<towsonu2003> hi Burgundavia how is it going?
<lotusleaf> towsonu2003: yo
<Burgundavia> not bad
<towsonu2003> hey lotusleaf
<Burgundavia> our not-so-SABDFL is shooting himself in the foot
<towsonu2003> heheh
<towsonu2003> lol
<towsonu2003> crap happens from time to time
<towsonu2003> ;)
<Burgundavia> it does
<towsonu2003> I think the same way as he does (kind of), but voicing of that thought by a dictator is something else :)
<towsonu2003> will you put it into the newsletter?
<Burgundavia> absolutely
<towsonu2003> :)
<elkbuntu> Burgundavia, *still* writing that post?
<Burgundavia> yep
* lotusleaf sprouts horns
* lotusleaf grins like a demon
<elkbuntu> whaaaaa? he's not going to post the blog post now, is he :(
<lotusleaf> he didn't say.. /queue twilight zone music
<lotusleaf> ah, the suspense
<poningru__> waah?
<lotusleaf> *<:O)
<lotusleaf> Burgundavia: objective complete?
<Burgundavia> elkbuntu: you still around?
<elkbuntu> yeah
<elkbuntu> where's the funny blog?
<Burgundavia> coming, but I am aboutg to head to sleep
<MenZa> jenda: posters got here
<jenda> yay 
<jenda> how are they?
<MenZa> still opening them :D
<jenda> hehe 
<tsmithe-ghost> i like the packaging ... never got anything from prague before
<MenZa> hehe
* jenda takes pride in the packages...
<MenZa> wow jenda
<MenZa> Awesome prints
<jenda> although I didn't find a way to tape it more neatly without taking a horrible amount of time.
<jenda> 
<jenda> it has to be all taped over, or the post office complains.
<tsmithe-ghost> mine wasnt all taped over
<MenZa> They've gotten some folds, but that's ok
<jenda> tsmithe-ghost: I guess you were before that, then ;)
<jenda> they did complain, trust me.
<tsmithe-ghost> i do
<jenda> tsmithe-ghost: did you have a staple in yours?
<tsmithe-ghost> nope. they were all smooth and round
<elkbuntu> jenda, how long ago did you send mine?
<MenZa> elkbuntu: they're excellent
<MenZa> jenda: I'll see if I can hand some at school
<tsmithe-ghost> they took five days to get to me in the uk - be patient
<elkbuntu> meanwhile, ubuntu philosophy now applies to food http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20061125.READ25/TPStory/TPEntertainment/Style/
<jenda> elkbuntu: I think they went with the last batch.
<jenda> that would be tuesday?
* elkbuntu greps logs, sec
<jenda> or maybe teh one before that... which would be monday two weeks ago...
<tsmithe-ghost> my batch!
<jenda> hehe
<MenZa> jenda: compliment your printer, they're excellent
<tsmithe-ghost> yeah, do
<jenda> tsmithe-ghost: yours must've been before thta, because that was the stapled one ;)
<jenda> MenZa: thanks :)
<jenda> will stick to them, then, if there's more.
<tsmithe-ghost> jenda, well, it was a few weeks ago and a monday, all i know
<jenda> it's always a monday ;)
* tsmithe-ghost wanna know why weather upsets his internet connection...
<jenda> but this week I didn't make it.
<elkbuntu> due to fatigue and alcohol, i cant find the reference. no worry
<jenda> hehe :)
<jenda> elkbuntu: ordered 10 days ago...
<jenda> which means you've still got time ;)
* elkbuntu is impatient :
* jenda relieved :)
<elkbuntu> i want shinies
<jenda> hehe
<jenda> well, if you're really impatient, why not order again, they might make it this time :)
<elkbuntu> lol
<elkbuntu> i cant even rememmerb how many i ordered. 10?
<MenZa> oh and jenda, how much will the tee's be? white on black?
<jenda> whoa
<jenda> I'm not near that yet :)
<jenda> But if I do it, the price will be $15
<jenda> and I'm inclined to the white on black.
<MenZa> White on black > black on white
<MenZa> I hate white tshirts
<jenda> elkbuntu: and you expect _me_ to remember? :)
<elkbuntu> jenda, yes, white on black plz
<jenda> the debate isn't between white on black and black on white - it's white on black vs brown on beige.
<elkbuntu> oooh
<elkbuntu> now you're making it complicated
<jenda> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=305605
<jenda> lol - it's 15:15
<MenZa> Beige on brown sounds nice jenda
<MenZa> ALWAYS do light on dark
<jenda> eek
<jenda> they don't have a brown shirt.
<jenda> So vote for the white on black ;)
* MenZa nods
<MenZa> I like that shirt though, the beige/brownish one
<elkbuntu> what do you mean they dont hav ea brown one? why'd they offer you then?
<MenZa> jenda: ...can they do embroided polo shirts?
<MenZa> If they can, gimme a price
* MenZa loves polo shirts
<MenZa> now, game!
<jenda> elkbuntu: they offered what you see there.
* elkbuntu rereads convo.. ah...i getcha now
<jenda> elkbuntu: 10 posters it was.
<elkbuntu> jenda, cool, that should be enough for me to stick some up around here and still have some for LCA
<jenda> you guys are making my life difficult :)
<jenda> the black tees have a much wider selection, including girl-cut tees.
<jenda> oh well, no one forces me to abide by the poll anyway ;)
<elkbuntu> oh..
<elkbuntu> you should have said that before
<jenda> I added it to the OP.
<jenda> this poster thing has rotated $500. That's a scary amount for me ;)
<jenda> and there is at least $200 more to gain - for the next project :)
<jenda> I can even afford projects that don't gain money now - which means I could do flyers or even booth-banners.
<jenda> MenZa: how much would it cost me to get a batch of about 200 or maybe more of tiny B&W Ubuntu logo stickers, similar to the small square ones you sent me?
<jenda> MenZa: I like being able to tag the outgoing packages 
<jenda> MenZa: make that 1000
<MenZa> jenda: oh not much--a couple of tee's perhaps
<jenda> hehe :)
<jenda> I like this business...
<MenZa> :D
<jenda> but since I don't have the tees yet...
<tsmithe> jenda: thought you weren't a business-man!
<jenda> seriously - what are the production costs there?
<MenZa> 100--do you want the logo centered this time?
<jenda> tsmithe: argh :)
<MenZa> I'm not sure
<jenda> MenZa: I'll have to think about it.
<jenda> Why is the logo in the corner?
<MenZa> That's how my old keyboard was designed
<MenZa> Keys in the corner ;)
<elkbuntu>  the barter system
<jenda> hehe
<jenda> oooh
<jenda> oooooh
<jenda> !!!
<jenda> NOW I KNOW what they are for :)
<jenda> ooooh :)
* jenda tries...
<tsmithe> hello?
<tsmithe> you feeling alright?
<jenda> Now I'm feeling great...
<jenda> I have an Ubuntu key instead of the Win key :)
<tsmithe> wow
* tsmithe gonna try that
<jenda> why didn't I think of that?
<jenda> don't you dare answer.
* tsmithe dares
<tsmithe> cos you're smelly
<jenda> don't do that to chanops ;)
<tsmithe> oooo is that a threat?
<jenda> no, it's a well known IRC rule ;)
<tsmithe> o really?
<jenda> as well as the fact that chanops are supposed to be the responsible guys that don't abuse their powers to further personal needs, and less so to act agains people they have grudges against...
<tsmithe> i know that one... and of course i do hold you to it ;)
* jenda resists...
* tsmithe tempts
<tsmithe> mwahahahahahaha
<jenda> 
<elkbuntu> MenZa, we need to talk stickers, my dear
<MenZa> You'll have to talk to jenda ;)
<elkbuntu> MenZa, i've already bought him out
<tsmithe> i wanna know what these mystery stickers look like
<MenZa> elkbuntu: :O
<jenda> MenZa: this evil lady bought all of the Kubuntu, Edubuntu and Xubuntu stuff I had...
<MenZa> holy crap
* MenZa glares at elkbuntu
<elkbuntu> MenZa, LCA is going to be the stickeryest ubuntu place ever
<jenda> ... and I had to stop her before she reached my round logos!
<MenZa> Awesome!
<tsmithe> could i have a sticker?
<MenZa> What will you need?
<jenda> Well, she did pay only about 1/5 of the price, but still ;)
<MenZa> lol
<elkbuntu> yeah.. more round logos to go please.. and some of them key stickers too plz :D
<MenZa> rgr
<MenZa> How many will you need?
* jenda used a black marker to blacken the edges of the key.
<tsmithe> i think it's unfair that you three are the only ones allowed stickers :(
<jenda> tsmithe: you're allowed them too :)
<jenda> would you like some?
<elkbuntu> tsmithe, we're not. its jsut a matter of the quick and the dead
<tsmithe> jenda: what are they like? cost? how many you got?
<tsmithe> elkbuntu, i've been trying to be quick ;)
<jenda> well, they cost $3 per 10 for the small case badges, and $2 for the big logo ones...
<elkbuntu> tsmithe, im teh quickr
<jenda> http://flickr.com/photos/menza/190241486/
<elkbuntu> MenZa, i'll need to decide that when sober
* tsmithe looks
<jenda> tsmithe: I have hundreds of Ubuntu case badges... but barely any of the other types :)
<MenZa> elkbuntu: right, lasse @ havelund dot org :)
<elkbuntu> of course :)
<elkbuntu> i needs sleep now, so i shall stagger in the general direction of my bed now
<tsmithe> jenda: from that site: which are which?
<jenda> tsmithe: the tiny ones are the Ubuntu/K/X/Edu
<MenZa> Goodnight, elkbuntu :)
<jenda> tsmithe: the round is the logo.
<MenZa> (Xubuntu not shown)
<jenda> righ t:)
<jenda> and the big white - err...
<MenZa> I sent a few of those
<jenda> elkbuntu has all of those now.
<jenda> 
<MenZa> I can do more, it's no problem
* elkbuntu cackles manically
<tsmithe> elkbuntu, i'll beat you yet!
<elkbuntu> tsmithe, you're in the know now, you'll be fine
<tsmithe> i was always in the know!
<elkbuntu> clearly not
<MenZa> you definitely weren't fast enough
<MenZa> :p
<tsmithe> well i tried to be ;)
<tsmithe> bah...
<elkbuntu> anyway afk for that sleep thing now
<tsmithe> how many stickers do i need?
<MenZa> just one, most likely
<jenda> tsmithe: that's up to you, but I don't like shipping less than 1 logo or 10 little ones.
<tsmithe> 1 logo? how can you ship less!
<jenda> in other words: buy by batches: 10 little ones and logos.
<tsmithe> i know to buy by batches
* MenZa nods
<jenda> well, I guess I would ship one logo and 5 stickers, but I wouldn't ship only 5 little ones :)
<jenda> whatever, you know what I mean :)
<MenZa> jenda: I shall assume you need some of the special stickers then? Big logo ones, and the other thingamajics?
<MenZa> And the keythingamajics
<jenda> MenZa: first of all, I need to know the prices. I can't keep on accepting them from you for nothing.
<tsmithe> ah the keythinamajics... are those like the one on my poster packaging?
<MenZa> right
<jenda> tsmithe: yes.
<MenZa> jenda: hold on for a second
<MenZa> HOLY FUCK
<MenZa> http://firebox.com/index.html?dir=firebox&action=product&pid=1344&src_t=hmf <- *drool*
<MenZa> Sorry about that
* tsmithe finds packaging
<MenZa> jenda: let's see
<MenZa> jenda: will you need any of the small ones?
<jenda> not really.
<MenZa> okay
<MenZa> so key ones, round logo ones and [ O Ubuntu ]  ones
<jenda> O Ubuntu ? :)
<MenZa> The big roundish ones
<MenZa> well
<MenZa> rounded corners
<jenda> oook.
<MenZa> rectangle
<jenda> gotcha.
<jenda> yes.
<MenZa> 500 key ones, 100 logo ones and 100 [ O Ubuntu ]  Ones -- in return for this: http://www.firebox.com/index.html?dir=firebox&action=product&pid=599&src_t=sbk&src_id=coffee
<MenZa> xD
<MenZa> I'm a consumer whore.
<jenda> deal.
<jenda> you're crazy :)
* MenZa roars
<MenZa> Yes, that was a cheap purchase for you ;)
<jenda> but it's great business with you :-d
* jenda hugs MenZa
<MenZa> :D
* MenZa hugs jenda
<MenZa> 100 logo ones... oh, so much work in those
<MenZa> I have to applicate them and stuff
* MenZa shrugs
<MenZa> I'm gonna go print them later
<jenda> MenZa: I'm still not sure if the little ones should be centered...
<jenda> ooh... you don't have to do 100 if it's too much work.
<MenZa> hm, how many would you say is acceptable?
<MenZa> After all, I do this for myself, AND Ubuntu promotion ;)
<jenda> How's this: 1000 black tags, 50 logos, 100 long ones?
* tsmithe needs a business idea to help raise his 3500
<jenda> I intend to give the black tags to everyone that makes Ubuntu promotional material, to tag envelopes ;)
<MenZa> Hmm, that's a lot of black ink
<jenda> tsmithe: Ubuntu promotional material works great ;)
<jenda> tsmithe: how much time'v you got?
<jenda> MenZa: aha... didn't think of that...
<tsmithe> lots: why?
<MenZa> jenda: how about inverted?
<MenZa> Black on white?
<jenda> tsmithe: you could pick up a promotional moterial project, it makes real big cash.
<tsmithe> ok...
<tsmithe> but what haven't you covered?
<jenda> I was being cheap, but the posters will generate about $200 profit...
<jenda> I've only done stickers and posters.
<jenda> MenZa: hmm...
<jenda> I like the black, because it can be seen on teh envelope...
<MenZa> hold on a second ;)
<jenda> but the logo can be larger, I guess ;) big & centered.
<jenda> that could save a bit.
<MenZa> a bit yeah :)
<jenda> tsmithe: there is tons... t-shirts probably most profitable...
<tsmithe> i thought you were doing t-shirts!
<jenda> I haven't even started yet - and I was going to hand the project over to some american screen-printer...
<tsmithe> a what now?
<jenda> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=70600&highlight=shirt
<tsmithe> i think i'm subscribed to that
<tsmithe> no
<tsmithe> no that one
<jenda> hehe
<jenda> it's an old one I dug up :)
<MenZa> jenda: query.
<jenda> anytime...
* jenda has this strange feeling...
<jenda> in his stomach...
<tsmithe> mmm... i dont think i can do t-shirts...
<tsmithe> i want to do something new
<jenda> well, then you'll have to think of somethnig :)
* tsmithe thinks
<jenda> I think that weird feeling couldda been hunger...
* tsmithe has just had lunch
<jenda> ok, that sounds like a bugfix.
* jenda wanders off...
* MenZa patches jenda
<tsmithe> hunger's not really a bug, more like a feature
<tsmithe> stops you dying
<tonyyarusso> I think I have that feature too
* tonyyarusso grabs a box of Cheerios and goes upstairs
* tsmithe has had that feature
* tonyyarusso CURSES WILDLY FIRST
<tonyyarusso> bloody hell
<tsmithe> whaaaa?
<tonyyarusso> Sorry - I'm beginning to get upset with my other computer
<tsmithe> oh... what's it done?
<tonyyarusso> https://bugs.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.17/+bug/71023
<tsmithe> oh... someone else was telling me about that before
<tsmithe> that is sooo weird
<tonyyarusso> indeed
<tsmithe> perhaps it was you...
<tsmithe> dunno
<tsmithe> i have a crapulous memory
<tonyyarusso> Anyway, I am actually hungry, so that will be dealt with later
<tsmithe> "Lots of love, just keep it coming; making something out of nothing" <- that *is* ubuntu
<tsmithe> or debian
<tsmithe> or gnu
<tsmithe> no, that *is* free software
<jenda> tsmithe: your signature gave .t. away :)
<tsmithe> you what?
<jenda> on the forums.
<tsmithe> yes...?
<jenda> I didn't know .t. was you.
<tsmithe> oh
<tsmithe> nor do lots of people ;)
<tsmithe> PriceChild seemed surprised to learn
<tsmithe> for instance
<tsmithe> oh... and talking about signatures... could you check out http://tibsplace.co.uk and tell me if it's ok...
<tsmithe> i've blogified it
<tsmithe> and consolidated everything
<jenda> what am i supposed to check?
<tsmithe> that it's ok... looks alright... works...
<jenda> I've read it - looks cool :)
<tsmithe> good good
<tsmithe> better than the original, eh (i guess you saw the original, considering you followed a link from the signature)
<jenda> I didn't follow the link...
<tsmithe> ?
<jenda> I read it some time ago.
<tsmithe> how did you find out it was me then? "<jenda> tsmithe: your signature gave .t. away :)"
<jenda> Well, because I know about your Venezuela think for some time already.
<jenda> And your sig has a link to it in it.
<tsmithe> ah
<tsmithe> right
<tsmithe> of course :)
* tsmithe goes check adsense account balance...
<tsmithe> Page Impressions:  13,265; Clicks: 50; Earnings: USD11.05
<tsmithe> hmm
<tsmithe> that's obviously not gonna make me 3500
<jenda> I don't see any ads :)
<jenda> Now I do...
<jenda> do they want unique clicks?
<jenda> check now, I went on a bit of a click frenzy...
<tsmithe> lol i dont think the like that
<tsmithe> but thanks ;)
<tsmithe> it takes a while to update, so it'll be there in a couple of hours
<jenda> tsmithe: add a little note - 'please disable your adblock for a second and click a few of these ads:'
<tsmithe> that's against the adsense policy :(
<jenda> really?
<tonyyarusso> Just put a big fat arrow pointing at them.
<jenda> well, at least ask to disable adblock :)
<tsmithe> i will
<jenda> I would never know they are there, and most people you meet in the Ubnutu world won't either.
<tsmithe> hmm
<tsmithe> now check
<jenda> cool
<tsmithe> right... so assuming i get about thirty unique hits per day, i might get one click
<jenda> how much per click?
<tsmithe> they dont disclose that
<tsmithe> it seems to vary
<jenda> oh
<tsmithe> some days it's a lot, others not so much
<jenda> weird :)
<tsmithe> i guess it's to do with how popular the keywords used by the advertisers are
<tsmithe> or at least that's how it worked last time i checked
* tsmithe fires up his adwords account
<tsmithe> look at this
<tsmithe> "Our programme terms have changed. As part of our ongoing efforts to improve the Google AdWords programme for advertisers and users, we have updated our Terms and Conditions. Please review the new Terms and Conditions below, then indicate your acceptance."
<tsmithe> Why can't they just give me a diff!
<jenda> hehe :)
<tsmithe> i cannot be arsed to read through all the legalese!
<jenda> diff yourself :)
<tsmithe> i dont have a copy of the old ones!
<tsmithe> at least they provide for this option to be used: " No, I do not accept the above Terms and Conditions.
<tsmithe> (When you click on the button below, the active campaigns of your account will be paused. You can resume your advertising by logging in and accepting these Terms and Conditions at a later date.)"
<tsmithe> damn
<tsmithe> when i use that, it logs me out
<tsmithe> grargh
<jenda> hehe
<jenda> looks like you gotta accept :)
<jenda> extremely friendly.
<tsmithe> i thought it was being, until i actually clicked it
<tsmithe> hmmm... i could probs get tshirts printed for 2.50 each plus shipping
<tsmithe> but i dont have 200 to start with
<tsmithe> ...
<tsmithe> that's screen printing
<jenda> that's a good price.
<jenda> I was looking at abotu $6, which is slightly more.
<jenda> But for very hight quality shirts, that is.
<tsmithe> mine would be 100% cotton ;)
<tsmithe> http://www.indigoclothing.com
<tsmithe> how big is demand?
<jenda> dunno...
<tsmithe> and i'm sceptical about what to do with different sizes ...
<MenZa> beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeg
<jenda> OK, MenZa's demand is beeeeeeeg....
<jenda> dunno tsmithe.
<jenda> I was going to print 100 pcs
<tsmithe> how should i divide my order, should i decide to do this (unlikely), into small, medium, large, x-large, xx-large?
<jenda> and my expenses would be covered at piece #53, not counting shipping.
<tsmithe> i was thinking of 100 as well
<MenZa> Large and x-large = importantnessness
<jenda> err.. counting shipping, actually :)
<jenda> yes, maybe a few M, XXL and XXXL, but mainly L and XL.
<tsmithe> jenda, shipping to you or to others
<jenda> others.
<jenda> shipping to me would be free.
<tsmithe> how do you know how much that will be?
<tsmithe> surely it's different per order?
<jenda> well, be aware that I now have some experience with shipping :)
<jenda> and most international shipping is flat price here.
<jenda> I guesed the weight of the package.
<tsmithe> hmm
<tsmithe> how many colours are the images?
<jenda> 1
<tsmithe> they are white on black
<jenda> using the design I was working on.
<tsmithe> and the t-shirts would be black...
<jenda> or brown on beige, or beige on brown...
<tsmithe> hmm... i'll have to look into that colour selection...
<tsmithe> i think keeping it simple white/black is alright...
<jenda> that's what you think :)
<jenda> ask _them_!
<jenda> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=305605
<tsmithe> i've seen the thread!
<tsmithe> damn.. it turns out more expensive than i though
<tsmithe> 3.20 per item
<tsmithe> i'll look at a different supplier...
<jenda> do.
<tsmithe> they have the best website though!!!
<jenda> haha :)
<jenda> careful, tsmithe.
<tsmithe> huh?
<jenda> It's business, like it or not :)
<tsmithe> i know
<jenda> and gaining money is done only when successful.
<tsmithe> the one with the best website will probably be the most expensive...
<tsmithe> meh... i'll email them
<tsmithe> where would the prints be?
<jenda> it's up to you, of course, if you want to pick it up.
<jenda> But I was thinking left breast logo, and the roughcut poster on teh back.
<tsmithe> cool... that seems a good idea
<tsmithe> i'll email them
<tsmithe> do you think they'll understand an svg file?
<tsmithe> hope so
<jenda> I can almost guarantee they won't, but they might accept it with an additional fee.
<tsmithe> why do you think that?
<jenda> because it's what my supplier told me.
<tsmithe> also, jenda, could you point me to the logo file?
<jenda> there is none yet.
<tsmithe> huh?
<jenda> there - is - no - logo - file - yet :)
<jenda> Madpilot will make one.
<jenda> from the roughcuts.
<tsmithe> ah... i can do that
<tsmithe> i'm being dumb
<tsmithe> i was just wondering where the one at http://tibsplace.co.uk/spreadubuntu/DIY%20Material/Batch%201,%20T-shirts/t-shirt.png came from (sorry for the slow connection - my local mirror)
<jenda> right :)
<jenda> I snipped that myself.
<tsmithe> well... i made a logo...
<tsmithe> i'll upload it...
<tsmithe> http://tibsplace.co.uk/roughcut/Ubuntu-roughcut-logo.svg
<tsmithe> it looks a bit weird without a black background
<tsmithe> ...
<jenda> haha :)
<jenda> why did you remove that :)
<jenda> the printer will cope with it, don't worry.
<jenda> besides, Madpilot is working on a bit higher quality graphics for this purpose, I think.
<tsmithe> http://tibsplace.co.uk/roughcut/Ubuntu-roughcut-logo.png
<tsmithe> with background
<jenda> ok... and why exactly are you doing it now? :)
<tsmithe> what?
<jenda> the logo
<tsmithe> cos i wanted to
<jenda> ok :) that's cool.
<tsmithe> why?
<tsmithe> i mean, why did you ask
<jenda> well, because madpilot will probably have a higher quality version by the time whoever orders the print needs it.
<tsmithe> higher quality?
<tsmithe> it's svg! infinite quality!
<jenda> no, it's not.
<tsmithe> huh?
<jenda> it's infinite quality pixel-wise
<tsmithe> it scales up surely
<tsmithe> yeah
<jenda> but have a look at those smudges, they look terrible.
<tsmithe> what smudges? the black "dot"-thingies on the white logo? why terrible?
<jenda> because they are all exactly the same.
<tsmithe> i just noticed that :P
<jenda> They are supposed to look 'rough' or rugged - not as copies.
<tsmithe> yeah..
<tsmithe> mmm
<jenda> Dunno.
<jenda> You should decide if you really want to do the t-shirts.
<tsmithe> i'm just looking into it
<tsmithe> i'll email them with the current graphics for a quote
<tsmithe> not saying i'll buy or anything, of course
<jenda> they don't really care about the particular graphic - they care about size, number of sides (1 or both) and number of colors.
<jenda> and number of prints.
<tsmithe> i can see
<tsmithe> well, i emailed them asking for the price of 100 shirts (50 large, 20 medium, 20 extra large, 10 extra-extra-large), with a logo on the left breast, and the full image on the back
<tsmithe> i'll post a poll in the cafe asking about sizes, i think
<jenda> I can do that - to be consistent with the two other polls I'm having there :)
<jenda> if you don't mind.
<jenda> Honestly, there are still three people who might end up doing this ;)
<tsmithe> yeah
<tsmithe> and i probs wont
<tsmithe> i dont think i can find 200 or so to fund this
<tsmithe> but if i can, i will ;)
<tsmithe> it seems lucrative
<jenda> my estimate is 11100 CZK, which is...
<jenda> 265
<tsmithe> wow your currency isnt worth very much... what's it called?
<tsmithe> and 265 seems reasonable
<jenda> Czech Crown.
<jenda> or Koruna
<tsmithe> kroene?
<jenda> Czech Koruna , that is.
<tsmithe> ah
<tsmithe> i guessed
<jenda> not really ;)
<jenda> that's sweden.
<jenda> I think.
<tsmithe> something like that
<jenda> hehe 
<tsmithe>  i wonder what that actually means in japanese
<jenda> tsu
<jenda> i think it's some sort of word-ending.
<tsmithe> suffix?
<jenda> s'wat I meant ;)
<jenda> maybe.
<jenda> dunno if they really have suffixes. Not everything that's at the end of a word is a suffix.
<tsmithe> meh
<tsmithe> i know no japanese
<jenda> BTW, our currency is actually quite high now.
<tsmithe> really?
<jenda> Don't forget the actual number doesn't matter - what matters is how it changes.
<jenda> 1 is 42. It used to be around 55
<jenda> and with the US dollar, ten years ago, our currency was worth HALF what it's now (22 CZK per USD)
<tsmithe> the USD is sehr variable
<tsmithe> and if you dont have any lower denomination (like we have pence), then having 1CZK=2p seems quite reasonable to me
<jenda> again - compared to our currencies.
<jenda> for example, compared to the Canadian dollar, it has barely changed.
<jenda> we actually do have a lower denomination, the haler.
<tsmithe> oh
<jenda> But we only have 50h pieces valid now.
<jenda> so 1 pence ;)
<jenda> they took the 20 and 10 h pieces out of circuit some 3 years ago...
<jenda> and we even had 5, 2 and 1h pieces before the revolution in 1993
<tsmithe> how is the czech repulic then these days?
<jenda> well, the politics suck, but the very fact that we can complain puts us on EU level :)
<jenda> the bad times are officially over.
<jenda> (since 1993)
<jenda> or... 1989
<tsmithe> how bad were the bad times?
<jenda> very
<tsmithe> compared to uk standards
<jenda> You must know something about communism ;)
<tsmithe> i do
<tsmithe> how bad compared to hungary now then?
<jenda> Now I was 2 years old in 1989
<jenda> same
<jenda> or...
<tsmithe> so bad compared to hungary now... that must've been bad...
<jenda> err...
<jenda> same as hungary then
<jenda> and a lot worse than hungary now.
<jenda> however, now we are a bit better of than hungary.
<jenda> a lot better of, really.
<tsmithe> yeah.. i went to budapest once. it was nice
<jenda> But the communist regime simply destroyed the country.
<jenda> oh, we had nice cities even during communism ;)
<jenda> that's not the point :)
<tsmithe> oh
<tsmithe> why does communism always have to be rubbish?
<jenda> the point is that if you were an educated person, you either played their way, or were imprisoned.
<jenda> well.. theoretically, no.
<jenda> Comunism is hard-to-implement social construction, where people don't own anything and work for the good of the community.
<tsmithe> i would've been imprisoned
<Klaidas> sounds like linux ;)
<jenda> However, the Communism spread by the Soviet Union had nothing to do with this vision - it was a dictatorship that abused the above ideology to keep a populace in check.
<jenda> Klaidas: it does, yes :)
<jenda> but we aren't easy to manipulate.
<tsmithe> jenda, i know about stalinism ;)
<tsmithe> and it only seems to work in cyberspace... communism that is
<jenda> And, BTW, this form of communism is still in power in China and Cuba.
<tsmithe> hmm... i think china is easing off though
<jenda> And similarly to the prestroika, China is now trying to ...
<jenda> well...
<tsmithe> dunno bout cuba
<tsmithe> trying to?
<jenda> the thing is...
<tsmithe> yes?
<jenda> they have no intention of releasing the power this ideologic regime gives them,
<jenda> but it's obvious that it doesn't work financially.
<tsmithe> no... rather like Ingsoc
<tsmithe> and like North Korea
<jenda> you _need_ middle class, businessmen and the like to have an economy.
<tsmithe> but it can be abused!
<tsmithe> say, the trois etats, or the feudal system
<jenda> so just like the USSR during the famous perestroika, they are easing off on the economic side
<jenda> but nowhere near easing off on the political side.
<tsmithe> no
<jenda> what are Ingsoc and trois etats?
<tsmithe> read 1984 by Orwell
<tsmithe> you'll love it
<jenda> I know it, although I haven't read the whole thing.
<tsmithe> and les trois etats was how France was before their revolution
<jenda> ok
<tsmithe> the ending of 1984 almost persuaded me the Party was good... it's sooo subversive. i can see how strong Winston fell so easily
<tsmithe> i'm about to write an essay on
<tsmithe> it
<jenda> hehe :)
<tsmithe> you have no idea how many essays orwell wrote
<tsmithe> i mean, i went to the library, to look for the book, and its about 1.5k pages long!
<jenda> orwell's musings are very interesting in their essence, because he came up with all that theoretically.
<jenda> without actually knowing anything about what was going to happen in half of the known world.
<tsmithe> yeah... i know
<tsmithe> although it planted the weird idea in my mind that capitalism is the only political system that will ever work, even if it is terrifically unfair
<tsmithe> but i still like socialism though...
<jenda> mind - 1984 came out 1949, one year after communism spread to Czechoslovakia
<jenda> socialism has worked on a very small sample...
<jenda> you might want to read Leon Uris' Exodus.
<tsmithe> i will ;)
<jenda> it's a very strong read.
<tsmithe> and i'm going to venezuela, remember ;)
<tsmithe> "strong"?
<jenda> It's about immigrants to israel after WWII
<jenda> strong.
<jenda> My best friend cried when she read it ;)
<tsmithe> ah, emotionally
<tsmithe> rather than linguistically or politically
<jenda> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exodus_%28novel%29
<jenda> yes
<tsmithe> i bet they don't have it at school
<jenda> I don't know what your current views on _that_ subject are, but do take into consideration that Leon Uris is/was Jewish.
<jenda> So it's definitely not unbiased :)
<jenda> Which doesn't mean it's not truthful.
<tsmithe> i have few views on the subject, as i know nothing of it
<jenda> keep it in mind more so.
<tsmithe> i think orwell is my current favourite author... it's weird how his style is very fluid, but incredibly powerful
* tsmithe picks up the book to continue reading Inside the Whale
<tsmithe> damn. i promised myself i'd re-read 1984 today...
<tsmithe> objectively
<jenda> hehe
<jenda> I read animal farm.
<jenda> also a nice illustration :)
<tsmithe> i didnt. i hate it
<tsmithe> i was in it - i'm sure i said
<jenda> I think you'll like Exodus, if you like Orwell.
<jenda> no, I don't think you did.
<jenda> what do you mean by 'was in it'?
<tsmithe> oh... well it was the school play a couple of years back
<tsmithe> i was a pig and a farmer
<jenda> I see :)
<jenda> I wonder if the transcript carried the message...
<tsmithe> it did
<tsmithe> all animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others
<tsmithe> and how it will always be so
<tsmithe> dont you think?
<jenda> I don't know - I'd have to see it :)
<tsmithe> well... you've seen communism
<tsmithe> and how more equal animals rise from it
<jenda> hehe
<tsmithe> something that i find especially true here in the uk (but expect it to be less so in more eastern europe) is this:
<jenda> I got more of the image how evil can be twisted and shown as good, and how easy it is to fall for it.
<tsmithe> yes
<tsmithe> and 1984 is good at that as well
<tsmithe> ESPECIALLY THE EDNING!
<tsmithe> anyway:
<jenda> yes - I believe the message is very similar.
<tsmithe> "Whitman [an American author]  was writing in a time of unexampled prosperity, but more than that, he was writing in a country where *freedom was something more than a word*".
<tsmithe> this is about mid-nineteenth-century usa
<jenda> interesting...
<tsmithe> "The democracy, equality and comradeship that he is always talking about are not remote ideals, but something that existed in front of his eyes. In mid-nineteenth-century America men felt themselves free and equal, /were/ free and equal, so far as that is possible outside a society of pure communism. There was poverty and there were even class-distinctions, but except for the Negroes there was no permanently submerged class".
<tsmithe> what i find quite disturbing however, is how orwell seems to regard the suppression of "the Negroes" as acceptable
<jenda> I think that is still the case in most of the western world.
<jenda> And saying rich people are more equal doesn't make sense.
<tsmithe> when did anyone say that?
<jenda> I assumed ;)
<tsmithe> oh
<jenda> I think Orwell accepted it because the society accepted it.
<jenda> There were things then that seemed logical, and now seem unbelievable.
<tsmithe> i guess... but he seems quite subjective about most other things
<jenda> The reason is that those things aren't in the domain of logic - but in the domain of conscience.
<jenda> ie. right and wrong
<tsmithe> like how America grew not to be free and equal
<jenda> you think it's not free and equal?
<tsmithe> how is conscience not susceptible to subjectivity?
<tsmithe> and orwell thought it grew not to be
<jenda> consciense is very subjective.
<jenda> entirely so.
<jenda> hmm
<tsmithe> "Luckily for his [Whitman]  beliefs, perhaps, he died too early to see the deterioration in American life that came with the rise of large-scale industry and the exploiting of cheap immigrant labour"
<jenda> If ORwell is saying that society defines right and wrong, I disagree with him.
<tsmithe> i dont think he is
<jenda> kk
<tsmithe> however, this next quote is also interesting
<tsmithe> "Tropic of Cancer ends with an especially Whitmanesque passage, in which, after the lecheries, the swindles, the fights, the drinking bouts and the imbecilities, he simply sits down and watches the Seine flowing past, in a sort of mystical acceptance of the thing-as-it-is."
* jenda turns up the James Brown
<tsmithe> Tropic of Cancer is a book by the american novelist Henry Miller
<jenda> k
<jenda> hm
* tsmithe is listening to Otherside by the Red Hot Chili Peppers
<tsmithe> then this:
* tsmithe thinks you really need to read the whole essay to save me typing it all
<jenda> WOW
<jenda> the marketing team mailing list got a non spam filtered message...
<jenda> you don't need to quote it ;)
<jenda> I'm here ironing my laundry... first time in months :) so I can't really read it now.
<tsmithe> "To say 'I accept' in an age like our own is to say that you accept concentration-camps, rubber truncheons, Hitler, Stalin, bombs, aeroplanes, tinned foold ... ... and political murders"
<tsmithe> ah well last one that was
<jenda> indeed.
<jenda> one must always question current trends.
<jenda> just have a look at the racism.
<tsmithe> i havent got the marketing team list non spam filtered spam message
<jenda> it was natural at the time, because people weren't yet used to meeting other groups in peace...
<jenda> tsmithe: I just let it through, it'll get there...
<jenda> there it is.
<tsmithe> ah
<tsmithe> ah yes
<tsmithe> did they not subscribe then?
<jenda> nope
* jenda switches from Brown to Scoffield
<tsmithe> i dont think his points are well founded...
<tsmithe> the users will just say, where's this and this app, why can't i hear this drm'd track. stuff
<jenda> oh well...
<jenda> he's trying ;)
<tsmithe> i'm not going to reply on the list... most people will say the same thing
<jenda> i won't
<jenda> didn't pay enough attention.
<jenda> ironing, remember? :)
<tsmithe> yeah yeah
<tsmithe> when i was on raf summer camp, we would be up till midnight ironing and up at six in the morning to continue
<tsmithe> i slept almost solidly for four days after
<jenda> well, with my speed, midnight doesn't sound too far :)
* tsmithe needs to tidy his room - nagging parents.
<tsmithe> i hate chores
<tsmithe> they're such chores
<jenda> hehe 
<poningru_> blargh?
<poningru_> what are we doing?
<tsmithe> you are writing the loco-press-release spec
<tsmithe> :)
<tsmithe> i am *very* lazy
<tsmithe> and i need to think
* tsmithe thinks
<poningru> hehe
<tsmithe> mwahahahahah
* tsmithe needs money
<tsmithe> and to write
* tsmithe has an urge to write
<tsmithe> but my teacher has the essay!
<poningru> waah?
* poningru is confoozled
<tsmithe> dont worry
* tsmithe was thinking out virtual loud
<poningru> ic...
<poningru> :)
<poningru> brb
<tsmithe> ping jenda
<jenda> pong
<poningru> NOOOOOOOOOO
<poningru> WTF
<tsmithe> what???
<poningru> A FRACKING TOUCH DOWN
<poningru> err wrong channel
<tsmithe> a what???
<tsmithe> "touch down"?
<poningru> sorry american football
<tsmithe> is this in that stupid american sport
<tsmithe> oh
<tsmithe> the bastardised copy of rugby?
<jenda> please be respectful.
<tsmithe> sorry
<tsmithe> :(
<tsmithe> sorry poningru
<jenda> hello Daylighter
<Daylighter> hi jenda
<jenda> popey: ping :)
<popey> jenda pong
<jenda> we were discussing that t-shirt of yours...
<jenda> are they still up for sale?
<popey> which T-Shirt?
<jenda> http://gallery.popey.com/gallery/misc/DSC02692
<popey> blimey
<popey> I uploaded that pic about 2 mins ago
<jenda> I know ;)
<popey> hah
<jenda> <GazzaK> jenda, alan is making a better picture for you to see the shirt better
<popey> oh I am, am I
<popey> ok
<popey> or is that before I uploaded that one?
<jenda> before.
<jenda> that pic is just fine
<popey> anyway, it's not me that got them made, it's Nik Bulter - LoudMouthMan on irc
<jenda> I'm working on t-shirts myself, so I'm probing the market.
<popey> they are really nice
<popey> I have two :)
<jenda> and if it's for a good cause, I don't want to make competition tough.
<popey> I don't think Nik will mind either way to be honest - I don't think he anticipated them being as popular as they are/were
<jenda> popey: any progress on your own merchandise producing plans?
<popey> I know he makes a little on each one, but don't know how much
<popey> enough to make it worth the aggro
<popey> no jenda, I have been rather busy with screencasting
<jenda> I see.
<tsmithe> hi ho what's up?
<popey> creating training stuff
<popey> hello tsmithe
<jenda> I personally take 10% of the posters and probably other things I make, so I think that's fair ;)
<jenda> I think it's fair to take more, but I don't do it for the profit.
<jenda> popey: that's nice - We just had a LoCo meeting, and one of the guys turned to me with a marketing suggestion... just that :)
<jenda> popey: anyplace I can have a look at your work?
<popey> http://quickones.org/
<popey> they're all there
<jenda> cool...
<jenda> consider submitting to ubuntuvideo.com? :)
<popey> I have
<popey> http://www.ubuntuvideo.com/installing_updates_on_ubuntu see :)
<popey> I'm writing up some how-tos for the wiki
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeamMeeting20061124 says the maintainer of ubuntuvideo is awol
<jenda> cool.
<jenda> nice work :)
<popey> thanks
<jenda> except, it's ooboontoo :)
<popey> Pfft
<popey> I refuse to rise to that
<tsmithe> how'd you say it?
<tsmithe> lol
<popey> oo bun too
<popey> click those links and you will hear me :)
<popey> I just don't care how people pronounce it, same with guh-nome vs nome, or Lie-nucks or lin-ucks
<popey> if you know what I am talking about and I know what you're talking about it's a non-issue
<popey> IMO :)
<tsmithe> i say oobuntoo when quick, ooboontoo when trying to get the point across
<popey> I think newbies get put off when people correct them
<popey> not that jenda or I are newbies :)
<tsmithe> dont forget me!
<jenda> hehe
* jenda corrects a newbie
<tsmithe> who's the newbie?
<jenda> popey: you're right. I'll keep it in mind.
<jenda> it's a non-issue in my country - the correct pronounciations are the only natural ones :)
<tsmithe> same for me
<tsmithe> but depends on the location of the person for their accent
<jenda> popey: do you allow overdubbers?
<jenda> tsmithe: aren't you UK based?
<tsmithe> jenda, yes: why?
<tsmithe> oh...
<tsmithe> i see
<jenda> well... english allows several prononciations of each.
<tsmithe> different parts of the uk have different accents
<tsmithe> but most people conform to one
<tsmithe> so each accent has a pronunciation of the word.
<popey> jenda: "allow"?
<jenda> popey: yeah... :)
<popey> it's licencened under CC, do what the licence lets you :)
<jenda> hehe ok :)
#ubuntu-marketing 2006-11-26
<lotusleaf> Burgundavia: did you finish that bit you were working on earlier?
<lotusleaf> on that topic, I noticed something interesting, in this article: http://archives.cnn.com/2000/TECH/computing/10/16/corel.linux.on.ms.idg/index.html it mentions  "Why the partnership with Microsoft? Rene Schmidt: Fundamentally -- you've probably heard [new Corel CEO]  Derek [Burney]  mention it in the past -- the friendship that we've had in the past with Microsoft is something that we want to bring back to the
<lotusleaf> mainframe.
<lotusleaf> " which is interesting. Curious, how long has the latest Novell CEO served?
<lotusleaf> yo jono
<jono> hey
<jenda> hey there jono
<poningru> jono: if you wanted to look at the spec
<poningru> jono: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/loco-press-releases
* poningru should probably email that to the list
<jono> poningru: looking now :)
<poningru> thanks
<lotusleaf> Madpilot: yo
<Madpilot> hi
<lotusleaf> Madpilot: how goes?
<Madpilot> good
<lotusleaf> r0x0r, is UWN #23 being decended upon yet?
<jono> poningru: looks good
<jono> I think we need to get more press releases translated
<jono> I think should be a goal for Feisty
<poningru> :)
<poningru> sweet
<somerville32> Are we going to try to get UWN#23 out tonight?
<Madpilot> didn't 22 just come out a few days ago?
<lotusleaf> somerville32: I inquired earlier but received no response
<lotusleaf> busy busy people! :)
<somerville32> 23 is suppose to be for today-7
<somerville32> haha
<lotusleaf> Madpilot: check this out: http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=1807725&postcount=96
<somerville32> I'm guessing 22 was late
<Burgundavia> 23 out tonight or tomorrow
<Burgundavia> I am not feeling the greatest right now
<elkbuntu> :( sick?
<Burgundavia> yep
<Burgundavia> slept most of today
<elkbuntu> :(
* elkbuntu cuddles you better
<Burgundavia> oh, joy, I have hit slashdot
<lotusleaf> Burgundavia: did you sleep at all or did you stay up all night on that blog post? :P
<Burgundavia> http://linux.slashdot.org/linux/06/11/26/0152225.shtml
<Burgundavia> went to bed around 4ish, feeling fine
<Burgundavia> got up around noon, felt like crap
<lotusleaf> :/
<Burgundavia> so I lazed around and read
<lotusleaf> load up on vitamins ;)
<lotusleaf> afk making a post ;)
<somerville32> Burgundavia: Btw, I applied to the ubuntu-wiki team - just to let you know. <g>
<Burgundavia> saw that
<somerville32> Am I all good?
<Madpilot> hi Burgundavia
<Burgundavia> hey Madpilot
<Madpilot> got heat yet?
<Burgundavia> nope
<elkbuntu> Burgundavia, i'd like to advise you to go for tomorrow with UWN.
<Burgundavia> that is the plan
<somerville32> I'll tinker away at it :] 
<elkbuntu> somerville32, please steer clear of the suse invitation/ open day/ mark's posts thing for now
<lotusleaf> Burgundavia: http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=208360&cid=16989666
<Burgundavia> right
<somerville32> elkbuntu: lol, Yeah... I agree.
<somerville32> All the fighting makes me fatigued.
* lotusleaf puts on some peaceful music ;)
<somerville32> :D
* somerville32 closes his eyes and twirls in a circle.
<somerville32> Any ideas for a feature of the week?
<Burgundavia> I think we should swap out the feature for the week for a spec of the week section
<Madpilot> Feature of the Week: How to Poach Devs From Other Projects, by SABDFL </me ducks>
* Burgundavia smacks Madpilot
<lotusleaf> Madpilot: with a side of lemon? :)
<Madpilot> poached in a white wine sauce, maybe
<lotusleaf> Madpilot: don't tell me, you're going to make a new "sabdfl has a posse" poster, with a gecko :)
<somerville32> What about a "Featured Community Member" of the week in the future?
<Burgundavia> I would rather kick the behindubuntu people to do more interviews
<Madpilot> lotusleaf, you mean w/ the Suse iguana logo? hmmm... <evil grin>
<Burgundavia> we could have a group of zulu warriors roasting a large lizard
<lotusleaf> Madpilot: haha, ya.. or Chameleon, whatever it is. ;)
<lotusleaf> lol
<somerville32> Did we do a feature of the week on Joshker (sp) yet?
<Burgundavia> nope, but it is not the repos and thus does not qualify
<somerville32> Whats the reqs for a featured specification?
<Burgundavia> 1) not have already been featured
<Burgundavia> 2) see 1)
<somerville32> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/winmodem-support ?
<Burgundavia> yep
<Burgundavia> try and group similar spec together in a single writeup
<Burgundavia> focus on end user specs
<somerville32> Yep thats already been done or yep I can feature that spec?
<Burgundavia> only featured spec was last week, with network services and something else networky
<Burgundavia> anyway, I need to get some exercise, so will be back in a bit
<somerville32> kk
* somerville32 waves.
<elkbuntu> we need to stop using the word 'poach'. it is merely a highly targeted recruitment drive :
<lotusleaf> elkbuntu: exactly, I like this comment on the issue: http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=208360&cid=16989482
<lotusleaf> it's about choice
<elkbuntu> lotusleaf, there's still a matter of how you go about presenting choice
<lotusleaf> elkbuntu: and how did Microsoft present choice to Novell?
<elkbuntu> with dollarsigns
<Madpilot> Anyone know what email address jenda uses for paypal? I owe for a couple of posters...
<elkbuntu> Madpilot, @ubuntu
<Madpilot> k, thanks
<lotusleaf> it just goes to show, everyone has an opinion, and the especially negative ones get the most press
<somerville32> Ok
<somerville32> Wrote the feature specification section
<somerville32> Can I write something about the Xubuntu meeting that happened today/
<somerville32> It is the first Xubuntu meeting in almost a year, haha
<elkbuntu> o.O wha?
<elkbuntu> first in a year.. that's.. um....
<lotusleaf> I guess they finally found the X on the map ;)
<somerville32> I'm just joking
<somerville32> lol
<somerville32> It's been 6 months though since their last one
<somerville32> Well.. our last one
<somerville32> haha
<elkbuntu> thats still poor form
<Madpilot> until Friday, it had probably been that long since the last DocTeam meeting, so the Xubuntu folks aren't alone
<tonyyarusso> Madpilot: How was the rest of that?
<somerville32> Pretty good, haha
<somerville32> I tried to milk free work from them...
<somerville32> didn't work :(
<Madpilot> tonyyarusso, rest of what? I missed the entire DocTeam meeting, if that's what you mean
<tonyyarusso> Madpilot: Oh, right.  nvm
<somerville32> Ok, listed this week's security reports
<lotusleaf> great, on the /. " Mark Shuttleworth Tries to Lure OpenSUSE Devs" article, there's a flash ad for Novell
<poningru> hehe
<somerville32> Does anyone want to give me some advice on if I'm ready to apply for membership or not yet?
<tonyyarusso> I could ask the same, so I'd probably be a poor reference ;)
<somerville32> hehe
* lotusleaf wonders what lizard meat tastes like
<towsonu2003> whoever CodySomerville is, pls send him/her a special thanks from me for including winmodem spec into the weekly newsletter #3 :)
<tonyyarusso> lotusleaf: Dunno, but you can get alligator on a stick at the State Fair
<lotusleaf> tonyyarusso: no kiddin?
* somerville32 woots!!
<tonyyarusso> lotusleaf: Of course.  along with all sorts of other weird stuff.
<Madpilot> deep-fried alligator on a stick?
<tonyyarusso> Deep fried Snickers bar on a stick?
<tonyyarusso> Madpilot: Yes.
<tonyyarusso> Deep fried ice cream on a stick?
<Madpilot> cool. All good fair/carnival food is deep fried
<lotusleaf> Madpilot: poster idea: BBQ pit (circle) and over it roasts three lizards, all placed nicely into a logo ;)
<tonyyarusso> Cheese curds on a stick?
<tonyyarusso> Madpilot: and on a stick.  That's crucial.
<lotusleaf> tonyyarusso: crikey, I gots to try some, mate
<Madpilot> lotusleaf, um, we aren't *actually* trying to offend Suse people,  you know ;)
<tonyyarusso> There are also fairgrounds maps on a stick, pickles on a stick
<lotusleaf> Madpilot: I never suggested such a thing =)
<tonyyarusso> lotusleaf: Just show up in Falcon Heights, Minnesota around Labor Day
<lotusleaf> tonyyarusso: do you frequent that largest mall in America place?
<tonyyarusso> lotusleaf: God no.
<lotusleaf> haha, why, does it suck?
<somerville32> What else can I do for UWN#23?
<tonyyarusso> Only time I ever go there is if I need to get shoes from Nordstroms, but now I fit into Rockports, so I haven't been in a few years.
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-marketing.log
<jenda> Mr. Shuttleworth is one bright business man...
<lotusleaf> yes indeed
<lotusleaf> I, for one, welcome our sabdfl overlord
<tsmithe> jenda, how do you mean?
<jenda> tsmithe: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20061125-8286.html
<tsmithe> oh... the opensuse post
<tsmithe> hmm
<lotusleaf> tsmithe: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=208360&cid=16989666
<jenda> I mean it in a good way in terms of capabilities - he is very good at mapping the circumstances, and acting accordingly. The Ubuntu Open Week is a 'great' opportunity... what if some of those devs just do come and listen in for a bit?
<lotusleaf> jenda: I agree
<jenda> I don't have an opinion on teh correctness yet, though.
<tsmithe> me neither
<lotusleaf> jenda: I think he made a smart move
<tsmithe> definitely
<jenda> It seems to me very... business-man-like. It is wrong, but was worth it ;)
<jenda> Definitely a smart move, not sure if a wise move, though.
<lotusleaf> jenda: what happens in the business world to people who don't take risks?
<tsmithe> yes
<tsmithe> lotusleaf, they get bought out! or bust
<lotusleaf> or they sell out
<tsmithe> sell out, get bought out, same thing
<lotusleaf> yup
<jenda> lotusleaf: there is taking risks, and there is morality.
<lotusleaf> jenda: I understand both sides, and expressed myself in a few posts about it.
<jenda> speaking of moves - a chess allegory - there is no such thing as a smart but unwise move in chess, as chess is a war, without rules. Here, however, we aren't at war, not near it. And there definitely are rules.
<jenda> I have to read a bit :)
<lotusleaf> jenda: IMO the war's been on-going for some time now
<jenda> There is a war, true, but OpenSuSE and Ubuntu are on the same side.
<lotusleaf> I've been around for long enough to observe certain companies involved and their history, I didn't cut my teeth on 95, 98, xp, I was around long before that
<lotusleaf> jenda: then openweek should be interesting, no? :)
<jenda> Definitely.
<jenda> I believe some of the 'other' devs that come and see it might even really sitch.
<jenda> switch
<lotusleaf> jenda: agreed
<jenda> So...
<jenda> for us, who's hands are clean and didn't troll on the OpenSuSE ML, it's a win-win ;)
<jenda> Mark is the only one who gets the blame.
<lotusleaf> jenda: very true, but google lotusleaf suse and tell me the first thing you see :P
<jenda> lotusleaf: "Young sexy virgins alone at home with webcams"  - is that what you meant?
<lotusleaf> I've seen a couple of other people, I won't mention names, come to forums and lists and plug their distro and ask for help, too though
<lotusleaf> uh... no
<jenda> that's the first result, but the second is: http://www.suseforums.net/index.php?showforum=48
<jenda> ;)
<lotusleaf> yeah, right :P
<lotusleaf> for me it's "<lotusleaf> I dual booted my SUSE and Windows CDs into the trash can"
<lotusleaf> when that topic was set in #ubuntu-offtopic
<lotusleaf> ya, I used to be a suse user, I enjoyed it for awhile
<jenda> yeah, I get that as #4 or so
<jenda> "Also, Welcome lotusleaf as our official updater for our Latest Versions section"
<jenda> ooh
<lotusleaf> yup
<lotusleaf> I killed a lot of my time with that
<jenda> on ' tI recognize you from suseforums ? Get tired of SuSE ? I did too ...
<lotusleaf> I modded two different unofficial suse forums
<jenda> hehe
<jenda> the diversity is what the linux world is about.
<lotusleaf> still wish Ubuntu had something [with a GUI]  to configure/set refresh rates like SUSE's sax2
<lotusleaf> oh, agreed
<tsmithe> but yast is so slow!
<jenda> UBuntu seriously lacks on GUI config apps.
<tsmithe> yeah, agreed
<jenda> I don't mind - but my disciples do :)
<lotusleaf> tsmithe: yeah, I'm not suggesting yast as a whole
<jenda> disciples = converts
<tsmithe> i know
<lotusleaf> jenda: heh, agreed
<tsmithe> hopefully, though, with Xorg 7.3, we won't need much gui config, or config at all
<lotusleaf> tsmithe: yeah, but when I give newbies ubuntu, they should have some type of refresh rate changer
<tsmithe> inde3ed
<tsmithe> *ideed
<tsmithe> *indeed
<tsmithe> even
<lotusleaf> it'll come, in time
<lotusleaf> it's not like it's rocket science
<jenda> lotusleaf: you meant the spelling of 'indeed'?
<lotusleaf> lol
<lotusleaf> no, I meant the app(s)
<lotusleaf> but thanks for the chuckle
<lotusleaf> :)
<jenda> 
<KenSentMe> jenda: KABOOM
<jenda> oink
<KenSentMe> jenda: i've received your posters, thanks for sending them
<jenda> KenSentMe: any news?
<jenda> hehe :)
<jenda> cool
<jenda> was happy to. How are they?
<KenSentMe> They look nice
<tsmithe> they *are* nice
<tsmithe> b-e-a-u--tiful
<tonyyarusso> poningru: ping?
<jenda> hehe
<jenda> don't argue, please ;)
<tsmithe> who's arguing?
<jenda> just kidding.
* tsmithe knows
<tonyyarusso> Any Gobby/sobby experts about?
<tsmithe> why?
<tsmithe> i might be able to help
<tonyyarusso> From what I can tell so far, the host of the session just saves all of the files and system log stuff in one file in it's own little format.
<tonyyarusso> I'd like to have it directly edit files on the system.
<tonyyarusso> Like, be able to run sobby hosting all files in /var/www/somesubdir, and log in with folks to edit them and have them go live immediately on autosave (determined by autosaveinterval)
<tsmithe> hmm i dunno
<tsmithe> :(
<tonyyarusso> Nuts
* tonyyarusso wonders when poningru will wake up
<tsmithe> you'll probably do better poking around, cos i have no idea
<somerville32> So, are we going to mention the open suse thing in UWN or not?
<tonyyarusso> poningru: ping?
<jenda> poningru is in high demand these days.
<poningru> tonyyarusso: pong
<poningru> sorry
<tonyyarusso> poningru: I have a sobby question, and you're the only one I know who uses it ;)
<poningru> whatup
<tonyyarusso> Rather than having everything stored in the special sobby file, I want to be able to edit files on the system live.
<poningru> yeah it wont let you do that
<tonyyarusso> Like, have sobby load all of /var/www/somesubdir/*, and be able to edit them directly
<tonyyarusso> Why the heck not?
<poningru> I tried to do it that way... but I cant
* poningru shrugs
<tonyyarusso> sad
<poningru> indeed
<poningru> sobby has like zero management utilities
<tonyyarusso> Copy/paste is a wee bit annoying, especially if I want them to end up on that (x-less) machine ultimately.
<tonyyarusso> Is there an e-mail address for sobby devs?
<poningru> havent really looked around
<poningru> I was thinking of hacking something together
<poningru> havent really gotten around to it
<tonyyarusso> If you succeed, let me know.
<poningru> yeah...
<tonyyarusso> I was hoping to use it to develop a web site with someone who is just learning html, so being able to show her editing the docs and discuss what I'm doing would be great.
<poningru> I might as well make it my christmas project
<tonyyarusso> :)
<poningru> ah nice
<poningru> gobby also has modular design supposedly
<poningru> we need to incorporate that into abiword or OOo
<poningru> as in libgobby or something
<tonyyarusso> Ooooo, I like
<poningru> ooh gobby integrated into vi
<tonyyarusso> I think they're working on emacs
<poningru> yeah looks like they are working on gobby fully and not paying attention to sobby
<somerville32> What is sobby?
<poningru> its the server implementation of gobby
<somerville32> Ah.
* somerville32 pokes people.
<MenZa> HAI
<somerville32> Anyone want to prove UWN23 for me?
<tsmithe> prove?
<poningru> proof read
<poningru> uh frack
* Burgundavia has been playing in the snow
<jenda> guys, is the UWN still open?
<jenda> Burgundavia?
<Burgundavia> yep
<Burgundavia> going to be working on it soonish
<jenda> I have something regarding flash9
<jenda> but I realised I don't really understand it.
<jenda> mind if I paste a few lines of IRC convo with jdong?
<jenda> I take that as a no...
<jenda> <jdong> jenda: I'm about to approve flashplugin9 for Dapper-backports
<jenda> <jdong> jenda: BUT, it requires DEBIAN_FRONTEND=interactive in order to isntall
<jenda> <jdong> jenda: just like the sun Java stuff
<jenda> <jdong> jenda: so, in the backported package section, I need mention along with flashplayer that if you experience a dpkg configure error, run DEBIAN_FRONTEND=interactive dpkg --configure -a
<jenda> there, that's it.
<jenda> Burgundavia: what do you make of it?
<Burgundavia> yep, that is reasonable
<jenda> he wanted it mentioned in the UWN
<jenda> ok
<Burgundavia> put it in the dapper section
<jenda> Could I ask you to put it in? I honestly don't understand it.
<jenda> I have no idea what it means :)
<jenda> So no idea how to word it for the UWN.
<jenda> _pleaaase_
<Burgundavia> right
<Burgundavia> mention that it is about to be backproted
<Burgundavia> if people are having issues installing it, they might need to run that command
<jenda> ok...
<jenda> Burgundavia: one more thing, gobby or wiki?
<Burgundavia> wiki
<jenda> k
<jenda> Burgundavia: on another note, I'm sending a free poster to the winner of next week's trivia quiz in #ubuntu-trivia. Mind if I add a bit about it?
<Burgundavia> yep, sure
<tsmithe> jenda: i won yesterdays... maybe it'll be me!
<jenda> hmm...
<tsmithe> mmh?
<jenda> If it is, I'll stick to my promise, and send you the poster, unless you decide to donate it to the next weeks quiz, since you've already got 15 :)
<jenda> or 10 or so.
<jenda> But you're free not to, of course.
<jenda> Just as any other winer.
<tsmithe> oh, the same kind? i'll donate it by default then
<jenda> cool ;)
<tsmithe> i thought you could've got a new batch
<tsmithe> dunno why...
<jenda> nah, I still have 150 left.
<tsmithe> cool... rate slowed?
<jenda> yes :)
<dotwaffle> I was tempted to get one for our event, but knowing our campus, it'll just get graffiti over it or ripped.
#ubuntu-marketing 2007-11-19
<K-Rich> Umm hello?
<desertc> :-)  Hello.
<desertc> !hi
<ubotu> Hi! Welcome to #ubuntu-marketing!
 * johnc4510 Issue #66 of the UWN now available, digg it here: http://digg.com/linux_unix/Ubuntu_Weekly_Newsletter_66
* vorian changed the topic of #ubuntu-marketing to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Marketing Team's IRC channel | We're here to fix Bug #1 | Keep in mind that whatever your LoCo  does, any other LoCo can benefit from your work or experience! | Please sign up to the mailing list, ubuntu-marketing at lists.ubuntu.com | UWN #66 is out! UWN #67 in progress, release TBA
<bmk789> is there a good way to print CD labels?
<Burgundavia> bmk789: inkscape has a cd label template that I know works
<bmk789> Burgundavia: where?
<Burgundavia> bmk789: install inkscape
<bmk789> Burgundavia: im using it, where is the label menu?
<bmk789> or how do i set the template?
<Burgundavia> create a new document
<Burgundavia> choose the cd template
<bmk789> but how do i get those to print out right on 3-up CD label paper?
<bmk789> ok i found a PDF template for the sheets i have, ill try to get that to work, thanks for the help Burgundavia
#ubuntu-marketing 2007-11-20
<SoteriouLoucas> helo
<SoteriouLoucas> guys i am looking for any leaflets. Is anybody you have an idea where i can find?and which program is suitable for editind them?i looked in wiki but i didnt find anything
<SoteriouLoucas> i found in uk team thanx
<SoteriouLoucas> :)
<juliux> SoteriouLoucas, which language you need?
 * juliux has a german one;)
<SoteriouLoucas> in greek and turkish coz the presentation will be for Media(newspapers,magazines and tv stations) and some people in second stage we will have for women organizations such as political parties etc and for schools
<slytherin> Is this the right place to report a minor problem in website?
<bmk789_> are there any brochures for ubuntu other than on the DIY marketing page?
<poningru> bmk789: iirc no
<bmk789_> so my best option is to tweak that brochure to what i need
<bmk789_> and post it for others of course
#ubuntu-marketing 2007-11-21
<desertc> popey: I have an idea for a screencast.
<popey> desertc: ...?
<desertc> I was thinking that a video people could play in their t.v. based DVD player with a basic introduction to Ubuntu features would be terrific.
<desertc> Low on the technical jargon
<desertc> and high on the basic features and ease of use.
<desertc> Then we could burn it to DVDs in media format for average people to get a basic introduction
<desertc> Many people I talk to are uncomfortable even booting to a CDROM, burning an ISO, or downloading code from an unknown website.
<desertc> Not that they would be adverse to using Ubuntu ultimately, but they simply are leery of anything new on their computers (since they have come to hate Windows already).
<desertc> I know you've made the Introduction to Ubuntu screencast, and I could use that, but I think even that is too technical.
<popey> any of the screencasts that have already been made can be burned to DVD to play on a TV
<popey> that's a minor technical thing
<desertc> Hmm - not sure if I am being clear.
<popey> I have made a screencast that shows how to download a cdrom and burn to cd
<popey> I was just pointing out by answering your first point that having them on a tv based dvd player isn't an issue
<desertc> In the Introduction to Ubuntu, you're showing the Launchpad, versioning, how to download... for someone who is deciding whether they even want to consider Ubuntu, they are looking for reasons to use Ubuntu - features.
<popey> ok
<desertc> The list of 3 Freedoms is very applicable to this, so is "who is Canonical?".
<popey> (4 freedoms) :)
<desertc> Why do you only list 3?
<desertc> (yes, I realize FSF has 4 Freedoms.)
<popey> I am not trying to replicate the fsf, just provide examples
<desertc> But I think a totally green viewer would want to know that it includes open office, firefox, email, Ekiga, Totem, Synaptic, 
<popey> ok
<desertc> Know what I mean?
<popey> yes
<popey> are you volunteering to make such a screencast?
<desertc> Your screencasts are awesome (as I've said to you before) but your audience is a new Ubuntu user.
<popey> it is?
<desertc> I have been talking with a number of people who have never considered Ubuntu, and it would be great to leave them with a DVD for them to view at home as a next step.
<popey> ok
<desertc> I would say a new user would be a great audience for your screencasts, but I don't mean to tell you what your audience is.
<desertc> I was thinking about creating this screencast that I am mentioning, but I know you must have a nice audio set up there.  I do not think I could create the same level of quality.
<desertc> I will think on it further and maybe even get started on something, to at least share with you.  But I did want to run the idea past you, in case you also thought it was useful.
<popey> I do
<popey> could you create a high level script of some kind?
<popey> not word for word, just a list of things that should be shown
<desertc> Yes, I sure can.  I will work on it this week.
<popey> cool
<desertc> I'm looking through all the screencasts again, as I think about this more, and if people could be bothered to watch 1.5 hours on Ubuntu, then I know you cover all the great features over all your wonderful screencasts.  My thought is simply that people might need all the best features and an introduction to the desktop in a fast paced, high level short presentation.  In the meantime, I will build a DVD will the collection of screencasts and 
<desertc> hand them out with the LiveCDs
<desertc> I will give a try making an audio and or video, too.  Sounds like fun.  Even if the mic sounds bad, then someone can rerecord.  Thanks for your time.
<juliux> popey, ping
<popey> juliux: pong
 * popey will be right back
<popey> juliux: what can I do for you?
<juliux> popey, nothing, i only pinged you because serentiy asked me about sreencasts
<popey> heh, thanks
#ubuntu-marketing 2007-11-23
<katkin> dragnob: ping
<katkin> sorry guys - ignore that, wrong IRC channel!
<SoteriouLoucas> hello
<desertc> :-D
#ubuntu-marketing 2007-11-24
<gdi2k> Greetings. I recently set up an Internet Cafe powered by Ubuntu in the Philippines. If you want to feature it or make a case study or anything, I'd be happy to give you details. I've posted an outline on the forums: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=621320 
<somerville32> Hey
<somerville32> Anyone really well versed with Ubuntu trademark policy?
<somerville32> Burgundavia, ping
<Burgundavia> somerville32: pong
<somerville32> Have you read http://blog.washingtonpost.com/securityfix/2007/11/mpaa_university_toolkit_opens_1.html?nav=rss_blog ?
<Burgundavia> somerville32: can't happen in Canada, due to our privacy laws
<somerville32> It is using Xubuntu
<somerville32> And I'm wondering if it violates Trademark policy
<Burgundavia> oh, very cool
<Burgundavia> no, they are using Xubuntu, not distributing it
<Burgundavia> oh, wait, seems I actually need to read this article
<somerville32> This are distributing it under a different name but they didn't change the logo and stuff
<somerville32> If I booted it, I might mistake it for Xubuntu
<desertc> Interesting stuff.
<Burgundavia> somerville32: email trademarks@ubuntu.com
<Burgundavia> somerville32: however, they are violating the GPL by not distributing source
<Burgundavia> somerville32: are you not copyright holder for some of the Xubuntu docs?
<Burgundavia> sue them
<somerville32> It costs a half a million dollars to even start a IP case
<Burgundavia> SFLC will probably help you
<Burgundavia> as will EFF
<Burgundavia> I am actually fairly serious
<somerville32> Unless they modified it, I doubt they're is a case
<somerville32> *there
<Burgundavia> don't need to be modified
<Burgundavia> just need to distribute
<Burgundavia> mepis got in trouble for this a while back
<somerville32> I'm pretty sure that Canonical has offered their archive to allow for remixes like this
<Burgundavia> http://www.mepis.org/node/10725
<Burgundavia> somerville32: they might have, but they don't link to it
<somerville32> I can't imagine I'm the only one who could sue then
<Burgundavia> yep
<somerville32> Lots of people from Debian and Ubuntu and everywhere else
<somerville32> but I'd have to prove I had incurred a loss
<somerville32> Which I have not
<Burgundavia> no you don't
<Burgundavia> but the MPAA is currently violating the license, even in Canonical allows their archive to be used
<Burgundavia> http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS9113053102.html
<Burgundavia> licenses, rather
<Burgundavia> somerville32: this isn't the first time these scumbags have violated one of our licenses
<magnetron> so what's the news on the MPAA xubuntu derivate?
<desertc> Funny how they are so reluctant to read license restrictions when they make their money on people violating license their own licenses.
<desertc> Is that irony?
<somerville32> It is
<somerville32> lol
<magnetron> the thing is they'll get away with it unless someone files charges
<somerville32> I see this as an awesome opportunity to promote an Xubuntu agenda.
<magnetron> the open source community suing MPAA on copyright infringement, now THAT is irony
<somerville32> The MPAA paid someone to do work on Xubuntu and I think we should see if we can harness that
 * beuno thinks writing up a nice story and pushing it to digg/slashdot is a good start  :D
<somerville32> (paid a company)
<magnetron> i someone would take legal action, who would that be?
<somerville32> First Canonical for trademark violation
<somerville32> Than FSF for violation of licensing terms
<somerville32> but I hope instead of going through the courts, they work with the MPAA
<magnetron> why?
<somerville32> Promoting OSS is more important sueing the big bad MPAA
<somerville32> It isn't like they're trying to sell this or anything - they just aren't conforming to a few minor technicalities
<Burgundavia> magnetron: anybody who has copyright can sue anybody who breaks the license
<magnetron> could suing MPAA make a negative impact on the perception of OSS?
<desertc> Sorry to butt in, but is it clear they are refusing to release the source code?  Maybe they are doing so on their website, or by mail, or on the CDROM
<somerville32> desertc, The website is pretty blank
<somerville32> And I agree, lets not jump the gun
<somerville32> We could work with the MPAA here
<somerville32> Piracy _is_ against the law as much as we would love for it not to be sometime :P
<magnetron> somerville32: also, take into account what was the purpose of the kit - to spy on and shut down filesharers
<magnetron> also, they could be sharing ubuntu cds
<somerville32> magnetron, hmm?
<magnetron> somerville32: a university student could, with this kit, loose his internet connection due to the fact that he was distributing ubuntu via bittorrent
<somerville32> No no.
<magnetron> anyone know any universities that got this letter?
<somerville32> They could not lose their internet connection because they were using bittorrent
<somerville32> This thing is just a remix of Xubuntu with monitoring tools
<magnetron> somerville32: and it lists the most heavy users of file sharing
<somerville32> File sharing isn't illegal
<magnetron> somerville32: this tool lists them anyway
<somerville32> Right and the university has a right to that information
<Stormx2> Could someone fill me in on whats happening?
<Stormx2> What are the MPAA violating?
<somerville32> I would say Trademark
<Stormx2> Where?
<Stormx2> Lemme see
<somerville32> http://blog.washingtonpost.com/securityfix/2007/11/mpaa_university_toolkit_opens_1.html?nav=rss_blog
<magnetron> somerville32: guess how it will be used? Uni admin: "the internet is slow" - "let's check the piracy monitor" - "those 10 are the worst, shut them down"
<somerville32> lol
<somerville32> No, it won't work like that
<somerville32> And it isn't a piracy monitor :P
<magnetron> somerville32: that's how it is percieved
<somerville32> To you.
<magnetron> somerville32: check http://universitytoolkit.org/MPAA%20University%20Toolkit%20Overview.pdf page 2, the marketing material send to the universities
<somerville32> One sec.
<somerville32> Btw, if the network is slow and there is someone congesting it
<somerville32> Why _not_ kill them?
<somerville32> Hmm...
<somerville32> That didn't quite come out right
<magnetron> somerville32: because they are legitimate users, sharing ubuntu (or even xubuntu)
<somerville32> Congesting the network for any reason doesn't seem legit to me
<somerville32> And the thing tells them what they're transferring
<magnetron> somerville32: stop chatting! you are congesting my network!
 * somerville32 stops chatting.
<magnetron> somerville32:                                                             The program cannot distinguish
<magnetron> between legal and illegal activity and does not identify the titles of the files being passed
<magnetron> across the network.
<somerville32> It identifies the type
<magnetron> somerville32: that was from http://universitytoolkit.org/
<magnetron> somerville32: "bittorrent" is just not enough info
<somerville32> And besides, people aren't going to just disable people because they're using P2P software
<somerville32> magnetron, It doesn't say just "bittorrent"
<somerville32> It tells them the file type (ie. real video, windows media format, etc.)
<magnetron> somerville32: it doesn't say "ubuntu cd iso" either
<somerville32> magnetron, What is your point?
<somerville32> If they wanted to block torrent, they'd just do so
<somerville32> They aren't going to wait and see who uses it before blocking people individually
<magnetron> somerville32: my point is that this monitoring kit, based on xubuntu, can get ppl blocked from the net for sharing xubuntu. and mpaa violates the licences and trademark restrictions while doing it
<somerville32> Should we remove the tools in this remastered distro from our archives too then?
<magnetron> somerville32: as long the users follow the license, no. but if they violate the license, they have no longer any right to use it.
<magnetron> plain gpl
#ubuntu-marketing 2008-11-17
<popey> katkin: ping - why are there no 64-bit desktop CDs in the CD boxes that got shipped out to LoCos?
<katkin> popey: because it was decided that we wouldn't produce 64-bit CDs for 8.10
<popey> katkin: oooh, interesting
<popey> katkin: is that a cost measure or some other reason?
#ubuntu-marketing 2008-11-20
<jneves> I'm looking for a 3d semi-transparent svg logo for ubuntu that I found about a year ago. As anyone seen anything that fits this description?
<BUGabundo> oias jneves
<BUGabundo> did I miss something?
<jneves> BUGabundo: nope, I just asked: I'm looking for a 3d semi-transparent svg logo for ubuntu that I found about a year ago. As anyone seen anything that fits this description?
<BUGabundo> google images gave nothing?
<jneves> not what I was looking for
<jneves> I wanted to try to do some ubuntu stamps...
<BUGabundo> tumb cases?
<BUGabundo> I would love that!
<BUGabundo> I tried to get some from Jenda
<BUGabundo> but he stopped making them
<jneves> BUGabundo: real postal stamps
<BUGabundo> haaaa
<BUGabundo> nice pic... lol
<BUGabundo> humm do CTT use ANY image now?
<jneves> yes
<BUGabundo> didn't know
#ubuntu-marketing 2009-11-16
<guigouz> plop ?
<Guest89861> y'a t-il des franÃ§ais sur ce chan ?
<dpic> meeting in #ubuntu-uds-presidente in 25 mins
<dpic> meeting now in #ubuntu-uds-presidente
<dpic> video stream: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/uds-lucid-1st-day
<dpic> audio stream: http://icecast.ubuntu.com:8000/presidente.ogg.m3u
<munich> join #ubuntu-uds- presidente
<dpic> munich: already told them =]
<quesh> join #ubuntu-uds-presidente
<quesh> oups
<dpic> lol
<Flannel> huayra: I don't want to walk all the way over here...
<huayra> neither do I
<huayra> but do we have a choice? ;)
<Flannel> It's 11 channels over, my pinky hurts.  Are we there yet?
<huayra> yeah
<huayra> for me it's only 4
<huayra> Flannel, the licensing
<AliTabuger7> hi
<huayra> hi AliTabuger7 
<AliTabuger7> Do you think we got any closer to getting the domain? The canonical guy didn't seem to helpful.
<huayra> It was Jono
<dpic> lol
<huayra> and I have at least 5 people within Canonical/Community council nagging at him already the last 3 weeks
<huayra> I think he has got the message
<huayra> well... I hope ;)
<AliTabuger7> but is he the guy we need?
<huayra> To be honest I don't believe Canonical is too keen on giving the domain to us as long as the site is hosted outside their site
<huayra> but nobody is saying it
<huayra> BUt I got that impression from MAtthew (ubuntu.com webmaster)
<huayra> He seemed to be keen, but it doesn't help...
<huayra> anyway
<AliTabuger7> i don't care where its hosted
<huayra> neither do I
<huayra> as long as we can make changes
<AliTabuger7> newz thought the drupal version was still out of date
<huayra> we should probably make a 0.2 announcement or something
<huayra> I wish we had talked more about this marketing kits and how we can produce them
<huayra> but we might be able to clarify that in the meeting next week
<huayra> we'll see...
<Flannel> huayra: spreadubuntu.com might be nicer than spread.ubuntu.com actually
<AliTabuger7> they can do both
<huayra> indeed
<AliTabuger7> i like spreadubuntu.org the best
<huayra> we are aiming at spreadubuntu.com and spreadubuntu.org
<AliTabuger7> but we can have com and spread. both redirect to .org
<huayra> and even spread.ubuntu.com
<huayra> as long as we get one of them
<huayra> the other redirections should be trivial really
<huayra> Flannel, do you have faith in a Marketing Team revival as a group?
<huayra> I believe we could get a lot more done by implementing good marketing processes
<huayra> which means: making a platform for LoCos to target their market
<huayra> but that has to be thought out propertly
<Flannel> huayra: What I'd like to see is some things where we collaborate on a global scale to make materials, instead of a localish one.  Artwork is one thing, *words* are another.
<Flannel> Having some sources of good copy (I think that's what it's called) would be nice
<huayra> can you please explain a bit more Flannel 
<huayra> :) I really want to hear more about that idea
<Flannel> well, like for my CD sleeves, all the text on there is borrowed from the official CD sleeves
<Flannel> the rev2 that's in the works isn't quite so much, and really, some of the wording is what's holding it up at 95% finished right now
<Flannel> We can do artwork as a community well, and we have been.  But having a large repository of just text that I can copy/paste for flyers or brochures, or whatever, would make the creation of that stuff easier
<Flannel> "I need a paragraph that covers X and Y"  "oh, here's one, hmm, a little too long, lets cut out that sentence"
<Flannel> instead of "what do we want to say about X and Y?"  "alright, lets now revise it a few times"
<huayra> That's the way I use to work with my marketing colleagues
<Flannel> That's one of the 'major' problems I've had when creating these things. (It's not a super big problem, but its what takes up most of the time)
<huayra> what would such an activity be called? Text editos?
<huayra> *editors
<Flannel> We usually fire up gobby and start by coming up with what topics we want to cover, and then writing sentences and combining them and culling bad stuff, etc.
<Flannel> This could all happen under SU too, instead of svgs and pngs and stuff, we just upload text documents, etc
<huayra> see... You have a workflow that works. We need to document that and make that info available to other LoCos
<huayra> or AMrketing contacts interested in helping out
<Flannel> If we get into the tagging stuff with drupal, it'd be a lot easier to categorize and expand into new things like this
<huayra> yeah, that could be an idea
<Flannel> Yeah, it's something we can limp by doing, but i'm sure marketing people can churn it out much faster than we can
<huayra> AliTabuger7, any thoughts on how we could implement that?
<Flannel> just like I can design electronics faster than they can.
<huayra> certainly... I had a colleague which would always magically turn what I wrote into something really eatable marketing-wise
<Flannel> From what we said before (mind you, I don't do drupal), moving to a tagged set of content sounded doable, instead of strictly defined categories with an "other" category
<Flannel> Those same paragraphs/tidbits could easily be turned into presentations and other stuff too.
<Flannel> but moving into a more "freeform" site would probably allow this stuff to happen much easier (certainly without administrator interaction), so *we* don't have to think about every possible way it can be used.  It'll be used however the users can find ways to use it.
<huayra> Flannel, that is true. And we could present SU in a more Web 2.0ish fashion with a cloud of tags in the side or something
<huayra> people love that
<Flannel> Makes it easier for the admin people and the users
<Flannel> huayra: I'm allergic to two point oh, but yes.
<huayra> the Pyhton thingy you once propossed?
<huayra> or a wiki ?
<Flannel> No, the tag based thing
<huayra> Flannel, is just a way of talking.. It's hype. you know...
<huayra> Oh
<Flannel> huayra: I'm allergic to hype :)
<huayra> I am too, but at work I am all in for hype (I work with Marketing&Sales)
<huayra> ;)
<Flannel> That python thing would've been a way to sync with a bazaar branch,
 * huayra adapts to *any* situation
<huayra> yeah
<Flannel> I'm not sure it'd be worthwhile
<huayra> but it seems that SU solved that
<huayra> as it is
<Flannel> Yeah
<huayra> we have some revisioning which seems sufficient now
<huayra> dpic, regarding the language detection: Do you think that it would be a good idea to get that information from LaunchPad instead of using the browser settings?
<huayra> it would certainly make it all feel more cloudish (My language preferences anywhere as long as you use the LP OpenID, which SU does use by default)
<huayra> Flannel, could you please elaborate that Tag idea in our idea pool?
<huayra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Projects/SpreadUbuntu/IdeaPool
<huayra> I can do it if you are not keen
<dpic> huayra: yeah, perhaps falling back on the browser setting
<huayra> AliTabuger7, have you checked what options the Ubuntu-Drupal Launchpad module gives regarding getting data from LP?
<Flannel> huayra: Erm... I don't mind doing it, but I'm not sure where I'd put it.
<huayra> the wiki :)
<huayra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Projects/SpreadUbuntu/IdeaPool
<huayra> just make a new idea
<huayra> you can use the idea Teamplate or just put up the idea there
<huayra> Flannel :)
#ubuntu-marketing 2009-11-17
<huayra> Flannel, I added our chat to the idea pool. feel free to add/change to it: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Projects/SpreadUbuntu/IdeaPool#Editable%20tags%20for%20material
<huayra> night
#ubuntu-marketing 2010-11-28
<mohamed_trabelsy> hi
<mohamed_trabelsy> hello
<mohamed_trabelsy> Any body here
#ubuntu-marketing 2011-11-22
<AndreNoel> hi there
#ubuntu-marketing 2015-11-21
<Na3iL> hey Flannel 
