#ubuntu-mobile 2007-11-26
<Burgundavia> please remember to email fridge-devel on all new meetings
<dholbach> good morning
<Mithrandir> StevenK: --disable-obex and --enable-obex does the same thing, so you can just use --enable-obex to reduce the delta.
<StevenK> Haha. Yes, okay.
<Mithrandir> at least for quite a while
<StevenK> Mithrandir: I'll just sanity check the new debdiff
<Mithrandir> ack
<StevenK> Mithrandir: bluez-utils debdiff updated
<Mithrandir> looks good to me
<StevenK> Mithrandir: Okay, I'll upload the both of them.
<Mithrandir> StevenK: you saw the patch sent to tinymail-devel about tinymail-sans-conic?
<StevenK> I did not, actually.
<StevenK> Mithrandir: Right, that patch looks great.
 * StevenK daresays he provoked that patch by sending his patches to Philip
<StevenK> Mithrandir: What's the rationale for the 3.0 -> 3.12 bluetooth bump?
<Mithrandir> new symbols introduced.
<StevenK> Fairy nuff.
<StevenK> Mithrandir: bluez-libs uploaded, and bug with patch filed.
<Mithrandir> StevenK: cheers
<ToddBrandt> asac, is the following statement true: nm-applet = network-manager-gnome = network-manager-applet, they're all the same, they just get renamed from time to tim
<ToddBrandt> raji, I just posed the question to asac
<asac> ToddBrandt: from what i know its true ... yes.
<ToddBrandt> ok, raji, post your link, and ask asac
<ToddBrandt> if that's the latest
<raji> asac: http://ftp.acc.umu.se/pub/gnome/sources/network-manager-applet/0.6/, does this link have latest source code?
<asac> raji: how do you define "latest source code" ?
<ToddBrandt> asac: latest viable source code, i.e. that will work on a moblin environment
<asac> raji: its the latest stable release yes ... but its more or less official that distributors should also consider using all commits done on the 0.6.x branch after the final release.
<asac> i think we have almost all commits in the package
<asac> ToddBrandt: yes, use that branch + patches or use 0.6 svn branch ... which is just a maintenance branch without any unstable development.
<raji> asac: I have another question, apt-get source doesnt fetch network manager applet code. It only fetches NetworkManager daemon code. are not they bundled together?
<asac> no its a separate source package
<asac> say: apt-get source network-manager-gnome
<raji> asac: apt-get source network-manager-applet does not fetch applet code either
<asac> the command above works for me
<asac> what are you planning to do ? fork for mobile?
<raji> asac: we have to fork it for moblin, yes.
<asac> what features are missing?
<raji> asac: nm applet does not connect to wep encrypted networks, it has problem working with SDIO WLAN driver we use on moblin
<asac> could you track down the bug?
<asac> how are the symptoms?
<raji> asac: I will root cause it today, Just downloaded front end source 
<asac> its likely that its just a driver bug ... does the driver support wext?
<raji> asac: when I enter password, network manager timesout 
<asac> raji: why don't you start with the ubuntu package? and develop the fix against that one?
<raji> asac: Driver supports it, we verified, we thought something must be wrong in the front end code . I have captured the logs for the failure, would you like to see?
<asac> yes
<raji> asac: How do I send the log to you?
<asac> shouldn't be confidential so just use paste.ubuntu.com i guess
<raji> asac : ok, 
<raji> asac: URL is http://paste.ubuntu.com/2260/ , please look at the activity 1225-1247, at 1243 NetworkManager timesout.
<asac> raji: when it times out is the device in state associated in iwconfig?
<asac> raji: does WPA and open net work?
<raji> asac: It was not associated in iwconfig. Sorry I didnt get your other other question
<asac> raji: 1. is the interface associated right before the timeout kicks in
<raji> asac: 1. No
<asac> 2. can you connect to WPA or open-networks
<asac> raji: ad 1. ok is the right essid set at that point?
<raji> asac: I can connect to unencrypted networks, moblin wlan driver doesnt support WPA yet.
<raji> asac: Yes.I see in the logs that the NetworkManager tries to connect to 'correct' network name. (in the log 'Netgear-Raji')
<asac> raji: ok, but manually using wpasupplicant works?
<asac> do you have the .conf file for that?
<raji> asac: No, wpasupplicant didnt work. It gave some errors
<asac> raji: well ... network manager needs a working supplicant
<raji> asac: Is wpasupplicant needed for WEP encryption also? But  logs explained that supplicant was able to connect to global socket and looked like it didnt have problems. 
<asac> raji: yes ... everything needs wpasupplicant
<asac> i would try track the issue by manually configuring wpasupplicant
<raji> asac: do you know of any help page for trouble shooting wpasupplicant, 
<asac> raji: if its wext then its most likely a driver bug
<asac> raji: how did you manage to verify that wep works?
<raji> asac: My colleague, verified it. He used commandline iwconfig to connect to WLAN AP.
<asac> raji: trouble shooting wpasupplicant is like: run wpasupplicant with -dd to get full debug output
<raji> asac: he was able to connect to WEP encrypted wireless network with iwconfig, but not with nm-applet. so the bug is somewhere in the networkmanager. 
<asac> well as long as wpasupplicant alone doesn't work, you cannot be sure about that
<raji> asac: I will run the wpasupplicant and see why is it failing. Are you going to be online tomorrow around same time? 
<asac> the stack is: nm-applet -> nm-daemon -> wpasupplicant -> wext
<asac> raji: well usually i prefer to have finished my day at this time ;)
<asac> 3 hours earlier would be perfect :)
<raji> asac: ok, that will work for me, thanks a lot,
<asac> raji: fine
#ubuntu-mobile 2007-11-27
<dholbach> good morning
<StevenK> ToddBrandt: When you're around can you look at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-mobile/2007-November/001355.html and let me know what you think? I can upload a fix for 0.9 (probably 0.9ubuntu1), or upload any version you want to Hardy.
<ian_brasil> caramba, some heavy stuff about gnome mobile here http://www.murrayc.com/blog/permalink/2007/11/26/gnome-board-2007-candidates-the-bad/
<henrix> outch!
<lool> ian_brasil: I don't think Murray has sufficient access to attest the issues he raises concerning mobile
<ian_brasil> lool: the failings so far have been issues of transparency and failing to define standards/components IMO and i don't see how any one person can be responsible for this when it is a company which has contributed most of the code.....and anyway calling someone psychotic is just one step removed from calling them Hitler and a good candidate for invoking Godwin's law if you ask me
<lool> ian_brasil: Right, I doubt Jeff is to blame on the transparency of the mobile stuff
<guardian> the company being ? nokia ?
<ian_brasil> guardian: right, and even this I believe is not intentional..just a large company finding its way into open source and getting some things wrong and learning from its mistakes 
<lool> I think things take time in large companies, and they do things differently, such as press releases :)
<ToddBrandt> StevenK: I'll look at it today, sorry for the delay
<raji> asac: Are you there?
<asac> raji: not anymore :) .. will be back later most likely
<raji> asac: I posing a question about nm-applet, please answer it when you have time, what is the purpose of the 'Create new wireless network'. I am expecting that a new adhoc network will be created , but that feature does not work on our moblin environment, I meant no new network is created.
<agoliveira> ian_brasil: Nasty stuff about Jeff Waugh
<davidm> HappyCamp, HappyCamp_ubuntu , what is your name?
<HappyCamp> davidm, John Villalovos
<HappyCamp> davidm, https://launchpad.net/~happycamp
<davidm> Thanks John
<davidm> Your  IRC client was defeating me, it's says your "Somebody" or "New Now Know How" :-)
<HappyCamp_ubuntu> davidm: Oh, I should probably fix that.
<davidm> I use that a lot to track who I'm talking with until I memorize the NICK which sometimes takes me a bit...  Too many nicks too few brain cells... ;-)
<robr> amitk / davidm : ping
<StevenK> ToddBrandt: I'm around now if you want to bug me to do something.
<davidm> robr, pong
<robr> davidm: paul p tells me of a disconnect with what you're asking for on the Gfx drivers and what requests i received from your engineers
<davidm> Not sure yet, apparently Amit pushed back on something but Paul and Don don't know why he pushed back ie: is is broken or is it just not the "newest"
<davidm> If it's broken there is no real issue, if it's not "newest" it might be
<robr> davidm: you were copied on the email
<robr> i will forward it to you again
<davidm> Thanks I must have missed it or not understood that we were raising a flag.
<davidm> I'll look for it and read carefully
<robr> i got the same request on libexa from bryce and others supporting X to use the version of libexa that comes with the version in either gutsy or hardy
<robr> davidm: the version of libexa in gutsy is 2.1 and in hardy it's 2.2 , PSB Gfx drivers require 2.2 plus some changes
<davidm> I know that we need hardy support so that is 2.2 and Paul wants hardy support
<robr> davidm: the problem with drm.ko is the gfx driver requires the upstream version from the xorg project not the downstream 2.6.24 kernel -- it basically means you have to maintain two incompatible versions of drm.ko 
<robr> davidm: amit's request is actually rather reasonable 
<davidm> OK, perhaps I need to read the email completely to understand the issue.  
<davidm> I would actually expect that from Amit
<davidm> robr  I'm reading now.
<davidm> robr are you registered here on FreeNode?
<robr> this alias is
#ubuntu-mobile 2007-11-28
<StevenK> Mithrandir: I was >< close with modest when tinymail fell on a sword.
<Mithrandir> as in?
<StevenK> Mithrandir: libtinymailui-mozembed links against firefox's gtkmozembed, which is fine, it works. Modest tries the same trick and blows up because useful stuff like searching text or setting the zoom level isn't available in that gtkmozembed
<Mithrandir> wonderful.
<StevenK> Those useful things are in xulrunner-1.9, which tinymail can't link against since there's no pkgconfig file
<Mithrandir> that was your complaining to asac about the missing pkg-config file for xulrunner-1.9?
<StevenK> Right
<Mithrandir> could you just hack one together from the firefox one?
<StevenK> ENOIDEA about pkgconfig
<Mithrandir> (it's spelt pkg-config. :-P)
<StevenK> See? :-P
<StevenK> So I dumped modest/libtinymail in disgust and moved back to h-i-m and I can get nowhere with it, either.
<StevenK> All in all, I'm feeling useless today.
<Mithrandir> you've seen http://live.gnome.org/Hildon/HildonInputMethod?
<StevenK> Which tells me basically nothing?
<Mithrandir> where are you stuck, then?
<StevenK> If I knew that, I'd know where to start digging.
<StevenK> I've got it starting hildon-input-method on startup, and the module appears in gtk-query-immodule-2.0, but doesn't appear in the dropdown for Input Methods
<Mithrandir> and just poking at a gtk text field doesn't give you anything?
<Mithrandir> is it even being loaded?
<StevenK> No, poking at a GTK text field gives me nothing
<StevenK> How can I tell if it's loaded?
<Mithrandir> make it log to syslog in the initialisation function?
<StevenK> Hrm
<StevenK> if (g_ascii_strcasecmp(context_id, HILDON_IM_CONTEXT_ID) == 0)
<Mithrandir> StevenK: xulrunner in gutsy ships .pc files all right, but you probably want libxul-embedding-1.9
<StevenK> xulrunner-1.9 didn't, when I looked
<Mithrandir> > dpkg -L xulrunner-1.9-dev |grep -c \\.pc$
<Mithrandir> 6
<StevenK> Hold on, bouncing into a Hardy chroot
<StevenK> The problem is, it looks for a specific .pc file, which isn't shipped
<Mithrandir> which one?
<StevenK> It wants either gtkmozembed.pc or mozilla-gtkmozembed.pc
<StevenK> Those two are from memory
<Mithrandir> try to make it want libxul-embedding-1.9.pc instead, then?
<StevenK> The problem is I context switched over two hours ago :_)
<Mithrandir> sure, so do those things when you switch back or tomorrow or whenever, then?
 * StevenK nods
<dholbach> good morning
<Mithrandir> hi Daniel
<dholbach> hey Tollef :)
<guardian> morning
<asac> StevenK: use libxul-embedding-1.9.pc ... thats the new way of doing things. the old one isn't supported anymore.
<guardian> StevenK: hi, how could i get updates on discussions about the hildon input method framework in ubuntu mobile, and eventually participate ?
<asac> Mithrandir: to follow up on StevenK's issues .... do you have a list of mobile apps that need porting to new xul? midbrowser, mobile-basic-flash, tinymail ... anything else?
<StevenK> asac: tinymail I'll be doing tomorrow
<Mithrandir> possibly modest too; StevenK would know about that.
<StevenK> modest will get fixed by tinymail
<Mithrandir> ok
<Mithrandir> apart from that, I think we're ok
<StevenK> Well, modest and tinymail should link against the same gtkmozembed
<asac> ok ... just remember to come back to me when you start ... otherwise you _will_ run into issues :)
<asac> I hope that i have a document to outline the needed changes by tomorrow ... so probably a good test to do it then :)
<StevenK> Yeah, but my tomorrow is about ten hours before yours. :-)
<asac> where are you based?
<StevenK> Sydney, .au
<asac> oh ... then maybe we can start tonight ;)
<StevenK> asac: If I drag in libxul-embedding-1.9.pc, does that also give me the gtkmozembed2 functions?
<asac> StevenK: which function do you refer to?
<StevenK> gtk_moz_embed_set_zoom_level and co
<asac> you should get those in: /usr/include/xulrunner-1.9b1/unstable/gtkmozembed.h
 * StevenK nods
<asac> so yes
<StevenK> Just about to try and drag tinymail off of firefox-dev onto xulrunner-1.9-dev
<asac> ok
<asac> does it use m4/gecko.m4 ?
<asac> StevenK: ^^ ?
<StevenK> How do I check?
<asac> does that file exist in your source tree :)
<asac> search for gecko.m4
<StevenK> No, it doesn't exist
<asac> ok ... then just take care that you use
<asac> pkg-config --define-variable=includetype=unstable --cflags libxul-embedding
<asac> one idea is to add that to the cflags you found through PKG_CHECK_MODULES
<StevenK> I'm not sure how to set arguments for pkg-config.
<StevenK> I'm just installing Build-Depends in a chroot, so I'll dig in a sec
<Mithrandir> pkg.m4 doesn't provide a way to do that, so you need to do something like:
<StevenK> Or should I just drag in gecko.m4?
<guardian> how could i get updates on discussions about the hildon input method framework in ubuntu mobile, and eventually participate ? could someone please give me hints ?
<asac> StevenK: if you use PKG_CHECK_MODULES then just extend the CFLAGS like above:
<asac> e.g. XXX_CFLAGS="$XXX_CFLAGS `pkg-config ...`"
<Mithrandir> if PKG_CHECK_EXISTS([libxul-embedding]); then MOZ_CFLAGS=$($PKG_CONFIG --define-variable=includetype=unstable --cflags libxul-embedding) ; fi
<asac> right ;)
<Mithrandir> untested, of course.
<asac> Mithrandir: looks good
<StevenK> Ah ha. gtkmozembed mozilla-gtkmozembed firefox-gtkmozembed xulrunner-gtkmozembed microb-engine-gtkembedmoz gtkembedmoz
<StevenK> That's the list you wanted
<asac> StevenK: ok ... then you have to use something like: http://people.debian.org/~asac/gecko_1.9_load_glue.cpp to initialize gecko
<StevenK> Sigh. gluck, it's a text file!
<asac> yeah :)
<asac> is people.ubuntu.com better?
<asac> lets see
<StevenK> It's fine, I got it
<asac> nope
<asac> ok and to make things worse you need to #include <gtkmozembed_glue.cpp> to get access to the legacy gtkmozembed symbols :/
<asac> after that you can try :)
<Mithrandir> #include on .cpp files is.. ick.
<Mithrandir> :-P
<asac> yeah ... the symbols are now hidden ... its a hack to support legacy embedders
<asac> new ones should use real XPCOM ... like nsIBrowser et al
 * StevenK is just trying to figure out how the configure.ac -> configure stuff falls out
<StevenK> Actually, I might be just evil and set LIBTINYMAILUI_MOZEMBED_CFLAGS
<StevenK> configure: error: "You need Mozilla's XPCOM"
<StevenK> Sigh
<asac> StevenK: do they try to compile something to test?
<StevenK> No, they check include files
<StevenK> mozilla_gtkmozembed_pcs="gtkmozembed mozilla-gtkmozembed firefox-gtkmozembed xulrunner-gtkmozembed microb-engine-gtkembedmoz gtkembedmoz"
<asac> add libxul-embedding there
<StevenK> They want one of those things, I'm just unsure of where that list lives in configure.ac
<asac> StevenK: i still think there is an .m4 file somewhere
<asac> is there a m4/ directory ?
<StevenK> Yup
<asac> whats in there?
<StevenK> m4/moz.m4
 * StevenK just did a grep
<asac> can you paste it somewhere?
<StevenK> Sure, a sec
<StevenK> asac: http://paste.ubuntu.com/2317/
<asac> ok add libxul-embedding there and
<asac> use mozilla_xpcom_includedir="`$PKG_CONFIG --variable=includedir $mozilla_xpcom`/unstable" ... if that directory exists
<StevenK> I'm adding libxul-embedding to line 43, or everywhere?
<asac> i think that should be fine
<StevenK>    if test -d $mozilla_xpcom_includedir/unstable; then
<StevenK>      mozilla_xpcom_includedir="$mozilla_xpcom_includedir/unstable"
<StevenK>    fi
<StevenK> asac: ^
<asac> StevenK: yes ... and  "else ... (keep the old one)"
<StevenK> I need an explicit yes?
<StevenK> Er, explicit else
<asac> oh right
<asac> not needed then i guess
<StevenK> Just re-running autoconf
<asac> i guess aclocal you need as well
<asac> StevenK: oh i see that you need to add something similar to the -xpcom test (line 29+)
<StevenK> Yeah, it failed after autoconf, I just ran aclocal as well
<StevenK> Yup, added
<asac> StevenK: one final thing i see (because of mozilla_home) ... they probably use -rpath ... you have to drop that if mozilla_home is empty
 * StevenK sighs at autoconf
<StevenK> asac: They don't use rpath, I had to hack that in myself
<asac> whatfor do they use mozilla_home ?
<StevenK> No clue
<asac> ok they set the _path hard coded
<asac> in _preferences.cpp
<asac> ok does configure now run?
<StevenK> I've autoconf blow up in my face, hold on
<StevenK> I get the same result
<asac> needs xpcom?
<StevenK> xulrunner doesn't throw that into the mix?
<asac> it does ... your m4/moz.m4 most likely isn't right
<asac> can you post the XPCOM section?
<asac> http://pastebin.mozilla.org/250750
<asac> something like that?
<StevenK> http://paste.ubuntu.com/2318/
<asac> no in m4/moz.m4 ... if you still get the output complaining about XPCOM missing
<StevenK> mozilla_xpcom_pcs="xpcom mozilla-xpcom firefox-xpcom xulrunner-xpcom microb-engine-xpcom libxul-embedding"
<StevenK> That's what I have
<StevenK> http://paste.ubuntu.com/2319/
<StevenK> That's the full file
<asac> config.log ? what does it complain about?
<StevenK> configure:26325: checking Mozilla xpcom engine version
<StevenK> configure:26374: result: 1.8
<StevenK> configure:26409: error: "You need Mozilla's XPCOM"
<StevenK> (But it's not 1.8)
<asac> StevenK: i have just the diff above ... now it complains about missing GtkMozEmbed not XPCOM anymore
<asac> maybe run sh autogen.sh
<StevenK> There's no autogen.sh
<asac> http://paste.ubuntu.com/2320/
<asac> that works for me
<asac> hu?
<asac> i have: URL: https://svn.tinymail.org/svn/tinymail/trunk
<StevenK> Hum
<StevenK> for i in xpcom mozilla-xpcom firefox-xpcom xulrunner-xpcom microb-engine-xpcom libxul-embedding ; do if pkg-config --exists $i ; then echo $i ; fi ; done
<asac> doesn't work?
<asac> do you have xulrunner-1.9-dev installed?
<StevenK> It prints nothing
<StevenK> Yup
<asac> $ if pkg-config --exists libxul-embedding; then echo test; fi
<asac> test
<asac> that works for me
<asac> StevenK: oh maybe you don't have latest xulrunner-1.9?
<asac> which version do you have?
<StevenK> (hardy)root@liquified:/libtinymail-0.0.5# if pkg-config --exists libxul-embedding; then echo test; fi
<StevenK> (hardy)root@liquified:/libtinymail-0.0.5# if pkg-config --exists libxul-embedding-1.9; then echo test; fi
<StevenK> test
<StevenK> 1.9~b1~rc3+nobinonly-0ubuntu1
<asac> ok ... thats the previous package then
<asac> just 1.9~b1+nobin is the right one
<StevenK> Tracking down new packages
<StevenK> Still broken with the new xulrunner-1.9
<asac> http://pastebin.mozilla.org/250753
<asac> try just that patch ... it works for me
<asac> (at least for configure)
<asac> StevenK: does pkg-config now work at least?
<StevenK> asac: No, it's still broken.
<StevenK> Setting up xulrunner-1.9-dev (1.9~b1+nobinonly-0ubuntu1) ...
<StevenK> (hardy)root@liquified:/# if pkg-config --exists libxul-embedding; then echo test; fi
<StevenK> <nothing>
<asac> StevenK: ok sorry for the mess
<asac> you have to use -1.9 for now
<asac> it was pulled from somewhere else for me
<StevenK> That's okay, but why does it work for you?
<StevenK> Ah
<asac> i have plenty of places where all kind of xul variants live :)
<StevenK> Haha
<StevenK> Along with grues? :-P
<asac> grues? cannot translate that ;)
<StevenK> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grue_%28monster%29
<StevenK> Oh grah
<StevenK> Never mind, I'm a bozo
<asac> ah
<StevenK> If I'm going to run configure by hand, I should apply patches first
<asac> i will remember that StevenK  :)
<StevenK> Hah
<StevenK> I'll get you, asac :-)
<asac> StevenK: patch it then i run 
<asac> sh autogen.sh --with-html-component=mozembed
<asac> if you don't have autogen.sh aclocal + autoconf should be enough i guess
<StevenK> Yeah, it's working
<StevenK> I'm just about to see if it builds and links
<asac> StevenK: ok ... then add the snippet to mozilla_preferences.cpp (the init function)
<asac> and add a
<asac> #ifdef XPCOM_GLUE
<asac> #include <xulrunner_glue.cpp>
<asac> #endif
<StevenK> Which mozilla_preferences.cpp?
<asac> libtinymailui-mozembed/mozilla-preferences.cpp
<StevenK> Oh, it's a dash not underscore
<asac> yeah
<asac> wait a second ... i think i already have it :)
<asac> http://paste.ubuntu.com/2321/
<asac> i think the "2" in version constraint should be 1.9.*
<StevenK> You're writing patches for me, this is great.
<StevenK> :-)
<asac> StevenK: please do the same for mobile-flash :)
<StevenK> Oh no
<asac> i am still learning as well ... so every port helps me :)
<StevenK> I'm not touching that
<asac> yeah ... but you can answer questions to intel then :)
<asac> hehe
<asac> how is the binary called?
<asac> how can i test?
<StevenK> There's a demoui, but if the thing links, you're pretty much okay
<asac> StevenK: i wouldn't bet on that :)
<asac> point is we now load the libs during startup (in the snippet) ... if that is too late you will crash :)
<StevenK> Awww
<asac> StevenK: the demoui starts :)
<asac> how can i see html?
<StevenK> Next question? I never managed to get much out of that demoui
<asac> oh ... 
<asac> (tny-demoui:23335): camel-lite-WARNING **: Could not open camel provider directory (/usr/local/lib/camel-lite-1.2/camel-providers): No such file or directory
<asac> Segmentation fault (core dumped)
<asac> camel provider? 
<asac> whats that?
<StevenK> It didn't segfault last time I tried it
<asac> that happens if you klick on "kill account"
<asac> starting works
<asac> but then i cannot get anything going
<StevenK> asac: Hang on, waiting for it to build. :-)
<asac> let me know if there are any regressions ... do you have a firefox build as well (to compare)?
<StevenK> In file included from tny-moz-embed-html-mime-part-view.c:36:
<StevenK> ./tny-moz-embed-html-mime-part-view.h:28:25: error: gtkmozembed.h: No such file or directory
<StevenK> 0.0.5-0ubuntu1 in the archive is a firefox build
<asac> StevenK: you have forgotten the configure.ac patch?
<StevenK> Ah, I missed a bit
<StevenK> I think
<asac> http://paste.ubuntu.com/2322/
<StevenK> Ah, thanks
<StevenK> I think I missed the pkg-config flags bit
<asac> yeah ... its unstable :)
<asac> StevenK: is tinymail lpia only?
<asac> (package-wise)
<StevenK> Nope, it's built everywhere
<asac> strange
<asac> ah its just a lib
<asac> ok ... then let me know what happens :)
<StevenK> Just patched configure.ac, just kicking off another build
<StevenK> Sigh
<StevenK> modest-tny-local-folders-account.c:243: warning: implicit declaration of functi
<StevenK> on 'tny_merge_folder_new_with_ui_locker'
<theseinfeld> hey
<theseinfeld> anyone managed to insatll the moblin-media package?
<theseinfeld> from moblin
<theseinfeld> the 0.21
<theseinfeld> it has a dependency issue on moko which is virtual
<theseinfeld> anyone?
<guardian> apt-get update then dist-upgrade just told me "moblin-media" has been kept back
<theseinfeld> exactly
<theseinfeld> because of dependency problem with moko
<theseinfeld> join #realxtend
<theseinfeld> if you try apt-get -t gaston update; apt-get -t gaston dist-upgrade it still sais that thing
<theseinfeld> that moblin-media depend moko but moko is not installable
<theseinfeld> i remember something was on the list about moko
<theseinfeld> anyone with better idea?/memory :)
<asac> StevenK: where do you get that error?
<asac> doesn't look like xul related though
<StevenK> asac: It isn't. :-)
<StevenK> modest wants SVN features of tinymail
<agoliveira> StevenK: That's looking weird. Why would tinymail have svn features?
<agoliveira> StevenK: Oh, you meant features from the svn version... sorry.
<StevenK> Right. :-)
 * agoliveira needs coffee
 * StevenK needs sleep
<agoliveira> StevenK: Try my coffee and you will see that sleep is overrated :)
<StevenK> Hah
 * StevenK doesn't like the taste of coffee
 * lool wishes for some Brazilian coffee
<agoliveira> StevenK: Now you're going to tell me you don't like beer either. If so, I'll personally kick your head until some decent vices get into it!
<StevenK> I like beer fine, thanks :-)
<agoliveira> lool: I can swap for some french wine ;)
<agoliveira> StevenK: Thank God. The day I see an australian who does not like beer I'll believe the end of days is afoot.
<lool> agoliveira: We should do this!
<agoliveira> lool: I'll be glad to do it 
<StevenK> agoliveira: :-)
<agoliveira> lool: I'm just not sure about bringing coffee to US. I guess beans are out of question.
<lool> agoliveira: I would need to be provided with your preferences in matters of wine
 * StevenK is pondering bringing Vegemite
<lool> agoliveira: Even in the suitcase?
<lool> StevenK: You should definitely bring back some flowers, animals, and illnesses back to Australia when you travel!
<StevenK> Hah
<lool> "Immigrant quanrantined for two years"
<agoliveira> lool: Yes, customs can be very anal-retentive about any kind of organic stuff. I'll check it out.
<lool> sam once brought me some coffee from south america, not sure where he bought it; perhaps in duty free
<agoliveira> lool: I want to get some special stuff one can't find on duty free.
 * agoliveira has a problem with in/on/at
<lool> Anyway wine shouldn't be a problem
<davidm_> agoliveira, I suspect if the coffee is processed and packaged you can bring it in, but if it's lose raw beans you will have "issues"
<davidm_> Can be beans or ground but not raw would be my guess.
<agoliveira> davidm: I guess you are right. I should be able to bring toasted beans. I really don't want to grind it before as it looses it's smell and flavor quite quickly.
<smagoun> StevenK: please don't bring anyone vegemite for any reason
<davidm> Very true I generally keep beans at home for just that reason, when I travel I bring ground since I don't want to carry a grinder.
<davidm> But I drink up the coffee before it can lose flavor ;-)
<theseinfeld> QUESTION: how do you install the moblin lpia packages in the image-creator chroot
 * agoliveira googles for vegemite...
<theseinfeld> have to go
<theseinfeld> cheer.
<theseinfeld> s...
<agoliveira> Hey StevenK, bring some. I like to try different stuff.
<smagoun> agoliveira: no, no you don't. Not this stuff anyway. It's made from rat feces.
<agoliveira> Even if I find it nasty as it looks like after see the google results
<ian_brasil> agoliveira: vegimite==marmite which is the english version (black, tracle like substance spread on toast normally)
<smagoun> "Folks, this is not something that I would rush out to buy. Nor, were I in Australia's position, would I list it among my national and/or secret treasures. If it's a secret, it would be best left in the closet" :D
<agoliveira> There's a link I found written by a brazilian guy living in Australia and he says "I don't know a brazilian who likes it (vegemite), one can't  like it, it's simply awful."
 * agoliveira really want's to try it now :-D
 * lool is amazed by what Australians do wiht vegemite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_HPvAhnG_w
<StevenK> I like Vegemite on toast with butter
<smagoun> liar
<StevenK> I am not!
<smagoun> :)
<StevenK> I want to see if anyone can eat a tablespoon of vegemite without gagging. :-D
<agoliveira> Well, I usually introduce visiting people to feijoada (a dish I love) and sometimes people just can't look at it.
<Fenario> elmo: do you have a minute?
<dholbach> Fenario: wrong channel :)
<Fenario> dholbach: sorry, you are the best
<dholbach> np, I just happened to see it :)
 * agoliveira is back
<raji> asac: U there?
<asac> raji: yes
<raji> asac: How do I get source for wpasupplicant?
<asac> hostap git iirc
<asac> or : apt-get source wpasupplicant :)
<raji> asac: I talked to you about nm-applet having trouble connecting to WEP enabled network, I think the problem is in wpasupplicant.
<raji> asac, I ran wpasupplicant manually, association has failed. Are u owner of that package?
<raji> asac, apt-get source wpasupplicant did not work for me. I tried that.
<asac> thats strange .... do you have the deb-src lines in sources.list?
<raji> asac, do you know what version of wpasupplicant networkmanager 0.6.5 uses?
<asac> 0.5.8
<raji> asac, It looks like I have to set up .config file for compiling the source files. Is there somewhere on the ubuntu site, I get .config file that they use? 
<asac> in debian/patches there is a patch that patches the default 
<asac> you need to use apt-get source wpasupplicant to get that ... or download the parts from launchpad
<raji> asac, Can you look at the wpasupplicant.conf file and tell me if that is correct or anything else needs to be added. 
<asac> yes i can.
<raji> asac:http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/m3af840f
<raji> asac, that wpasupplicant.conf file is for wep64
<raji> asac, I pasted the debug output from wpasupplicant at http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/m29d30e57 , can you please take a look at this log ,if problem is obvious.
<raji> asac, did you find anything wrong in the conf file?
<asac> let me see
<asac> http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/m22d3b719
<asac> thats the example from the package
<raji> asac, my file looks like the example from package except dont have key in quotes. Not sure if that makes any difference.
<raji> asac, can you please look at the debug from wpasupplicant also, you may spot obvious error.
<asac> key in quota is important if you use the ctrl interface ... give it a try
<raji> asac , any other words of wisdom about rootcausing this? 
<asac> raji: maybe look if "Driver did not support SIOCSIWENCODEEXT" is something fatal for wpasupp
<raji> asac, It is not fatal for wpasupp, because it tries SIOCSIWENCODE . Comments in the code says they try this other option, but I havent debug the code in action though
<raji> asac, By the way key in quotes didnt help either. wpasupp behaviour is same, still failing.
<raji> asac, another question. in the src file nm-device-802-11-wireless.c, strcpy is used instead of safe string cmp, and on moblin, that was crashing, I changed all those things . Do you want to apply these changes to ubuntu source? Should I send it as a patch to you or you dont care?
<asac> raji: try to ensure that driver_wext.c:1523 gets the right errno ... otherwise ENCODE is not even tried i guess
<asac> raji: i always care for patches ... please submit a backtrace of the issue it fixes as well
<raji> asac, I am sorry, I am all new to this,  how do I create patch?
<asac> in what kind of tree did you develop the changes?
<asac> in the package?
<raji> we have git repository 
<raji> we cloned it from ubuntu src repository
<asac> raji: looking at wpasupp source ... supplicant doesn't try to use ENCODE alone for you ... the output would read "... SIOCSIWENCODEEXT, trying SIOCSIWENCODE"
<asac> raji: cloned a bzr branch?
<asac> so the errno from the ioctl is neither EOPNOTSUPP nor ENODEV - both would trigger the SIOCSIWENCODE attempt
<raji> asac, Yes, I think. ToddBrandt knows answer to this. I will find out about that, will talk about patch tomorrow.
<raji> asac, So you think, errno from ioctl is wrong?
<asac> yes ... the driver is wrong
<asac> give it a try ...output the errno you get at the line mentioned above
<raji> asac, ok. I will try that.
<smagoun_> lool: ping
<lool> smagoun_: pong
<smagoun_> lool: I noticed that cheese 0.2.2 is the latest for LPIA in gutsy
<smagoun_> 0.2.3 is in gutsy, but it FTBFS on lpia
<smagoun_> (a hildon header file's not being picked up by the compiler)
<smagoun_> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cheese/0.2.3-0ubuntu1/+build/382477
<lool> smagoun_: Do you reproduce the problem?
<smagoun_> If I give you a patch, could you update the PPA?
<smagoun_> lool: yup
<lool> smagoun_: Sure; does it affect hardy?
<smagoun_> lool: yup
<lool> smagoun_: Ok; I'll fix it in hardy and then update the gutsy ppa
<smagoun_> 0.2.4 is in hardy, but didn't build 
<smagoun_> ok
<smagoun_> lool: In the meantime I assume I should I file a bug against cheese?
<lool> smagoun_: It only failed on lpia for hardy as well
<smagoun_> lool: that's correct, sorry
<lool> smagoun_: You don't strictly need to file a bug; it's a tool
<lool> smagoun_: No need to be sorry, you didn't say anything contradictory :)
<smagoun_> lool: I don't follow - cheese is a tool?
<lool> I just checked https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+builds?build_text=cheese&build_state=all and saw it's only an issue for lpia so that I know whether we need to fix other stuff etc.
<lool> smagoun_: I mean the bug report is a tool
<lool> smagoun_: We don't require a bug to update stuff; it just helps us around talking about an issue / regrouping information tec.
<smagoun_> gotcha, thanks
<lool> But for a "SRU" we *require* a bug
<smagoun_> SRU?
<lool> (Stable Release Update)
 * smagoun_ is still new here :)
<smagoun_> ok, good to know
<lool> It's described in details on the wiki.u.c
<lool> But it's a /lot/ of work, so if it's only for UME and for gutsy's UME, I wont prepare a SRU
<lool> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<smagoun_> ok. The bug is hildon-specific, so only UME is affected
<lool> See the "How" for how much pain it is :)  This is to prevent accidents
<smagoun_> wow, that section has a lot of words
<lool> Right, it's only lpia and cheese is probably not widely used outside of UME anyway
<lool> smagoun_: So you have a patch or an explanation of the fix?
<lool> smagoun_: I'll take this as an occasion to update cheese to 0.2.4 in the ppa
<smagoun_> lool: not yet, working on it now
<lool> i'm a bit puzzled at how it would ever have built?!
<smagoun_> It would build if -I/usr/include/hildon-1 is in CFLAGS
<smagoun_> ....but that seems to be the case already, and it still doesn't work
<lool> smagoun_: Yeah, the .make stuff with includes seems to not work properly
<smagoun_> yeah. what's this toc2 thing?
<lool> Looks like a custom build system; sigh
<lool> Ok, included by src/toc2.make: toc2.makefile.config_vars = $(toc2.top_srcdir)/toc2.$(package.name).configure.make
<lool> smagoun_: It looks like HILDON_CFLAGS is never added to CFLAGS
<smagoun_> lool: yup
<lool> smagoun_: Adding them fixes the build :)
<smagoun_> right, but src/Makefile is generated (right?)
<lool> smagoun_: It's patched by debian/patches/hildon
<lool> smagoun_: Is it generated as well?
<smagoun_> hmmm, maybe that's all that's happening
<lool> smagoun_: Can I hand you .deb for lpia to test?
<smagoun_> sure
<lool> (I never used cheese)
 * smagoun_ doesn't have the hang of editing patches yet
<lool> smagoun_: In this case, I "cleaned" just to bring me in a clean state before editing, then cdbs-edit-patch hildon
<lool> Did the changes, typed ^D, and that was it
<lool> By cleaning, I mean running debclean or fakeroot debian/rules clean
<lool> smagoun_: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lool/packages/cheese/0.2.4-0ubuntu2/hardy-lpia-pbuilder/
<smagoun_> ok, got the cdbs-edit-patch to work. neat. Thanks for the help, I know how frustrating it can be to walk new employees through every little thing.
<smagoun_> lool: trying it now
<lool> smagoun_: Oh it's not frustrating at all; I understand I probably did more packaging on my side, but I was mighty impressed by what the Lexington team did in a previous life^Wcompany
<lool> So I'm sure I'll learn tons from you guys as well; I already do :)
<lool> I can impress my wife saying that the screen is resistive, not capacitive, so it has no chance to support multi touch
<smagoun_> :)
<smagoun_> that deb installed on my Q1 but didn't configure - it complains about version mismatches with llbebook, libedataserver, and others
<lool> smagoun_: Are it's a hardy deb
<lool> smagoun_: Are you using gutsy?
<smagoun_> yup
<smagoun_> is there an easy way to force dpkg to configure it?
<lool> It wouldn't work
<smagoun_> (is the config step really necessary in this case?)
<lool> The reason for the mismatches is that package were renamed for e.g. the new evolution-data-server; libs have changed SONAME, so the binaries wont work
<lool> To match such changes, we rename lib packages and rebuild all depending packages against the new lib
<lool> You are supposed to build binaries against your target dist; I'm building against gutsy now; I would have had to prepare the backport anyway
<lool> smagoun_: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lool/packages/cheese/0.2.4-0ubuntu3~710um1/gutsy-lpia-pbuilder/
<smagoun_> lool: the gutsy version installs + runs fine - thanks!
<lool> smagoun_: Both uploaded; hopefully sound installed and built
<smagoun_> lool: one more question. RedHat has 'debuginfo' packages that contain symbol tables, etc for debugging crashes. Is there an equivalent in Debian/Ubuntu? 
<smagoun_> lool: thanks!
<lool> smagoun_: Yes; we have two things actually
<lool> Debian creates manually some extra packages where "detached debug symbols" are shipped
<lool> dh_strip can help with that; you tell him that it should strip the binaries in the .debs, and put the symbols in another
<lool> And Ubuntu has a buildd-side system where the buildd copy debugging information in some ddeb packages which are kept in the archive
<lool> You can then use apport when you get a crash to match a core dump with the ddebs and produce a backtrace with debugging symbols
<smagoun_> Neat. 
<lool> Cool http://googlemobile.blogspot.com/2007/11/new-magical-blue-circle-on-your-map.html
<raji> ToddBrandt: Are you coming to meeting? Everyone looking for you.
<ToddBrandt> what's the bridge number?
<ToddBrandt> I was going to call in
<ToddBrandt> raji: I try calling the conference room and it's busy , so I know there's probably a bridge
<raji> ToddBrandt: Yes. there. Let me get the number for you
<ToddBrandt> raji: thanks
<raji> ToddBrandt: 1-8781441
#ubuntu-mobile 2007-11-29
<StevenK> ToddBrandt: Okay, I see your update about moblin-applets, which is great -- what can we do in the short term?
<bspencer> you guys notice that flashplugin-nonfree is missing from gutsy?  
<dholbach> good morning
<mawhalen> HappyCamp:  you around?
<StevenK> asac: Ping, when you're around
<StevenK> Mithrandir: h-i-m has progressed!
<guardian> morning
<guardian> h-i-m being hildon input method ? so you're trying to integrate it ?
<StevenK> I'm trying to test it at this point.
<asac> StevenK: yep
<StevenK> asac: Right, I'm back after dinner.
<StevenK> asac: Modest doesn't link against xulrunner 1.9 ; http://paste.ubuntu.com/2339/
<asac> tried to include the gtkmozembed_glue.cpp ?
<asac> StevenK: ?
<StevenK> asac: Nope, I'm not sure where to include it.
<asac> somewhere :)
<StevenK> asac: Suggestions of where to include it gratefully recieved.
<asac> doesn't matter much
<asac> in one file that is in your lib
<StevenK> What's the ifdef? XPCOM_??
<asac> actually i wonder why modest speaks to talk to mozembed directly ...shouldn't this be put into tinymail?
<asac> e.g. a feature to zoom + find text?
<asac> #ifdef XPCOM_GLUE
<StevenK> Not sure about that, and that sort of split is up to upstream.
<asac> (i guess you have the cflags of libxul-embedding-1.9?)
<StevenK> Yeah, I think I already hacked that in.
<StevenK> Just trying a test build.
<StevenK> asac: That blows up even worse!
<StevenK> asac: http://paste.ubuntu.com/2341/
<asac> StevenK: you trying to build with gcc or g++ ?
<StevenK> gcc
<StevenK> I can pass CC=g++ if you really want
<StevenK> But I consider that a hack. :-)
<asac> StevenK: look what you include now :)
<StevenK> Heh
<asac> StevenK: a trick is to use:
<asac> nodist_libdevhelp_1_la_SOURCES =                        \ dummy.cpp
<asac> thats what i did to libdevhelp to force c++ linkage
<asac> oh its compile for you
<StevenK> Right
<asac> well ... you have to rename the file that includes the glue
<asac> to .cpp
<StevenK> Okay, trying that
<agoliveira> StevenK: It's only a hack when it's clever :)
<StevenK> Heh
<asac> StevenK: have you ever found someone being able to compile the modest trunk=
<asac> ?
<StevenK> Nope :-)
<asac> so are they on crack?
<asac> i mean they should at least compile their code :)
<asac> or is trunk a "coding-only" branch for them ;)
<asac> ?
<StevenK> I have no idea
<StevenK> Right, it still blows up.
<StevenK> I'm dragging myself off to bed, I'll poke tomorrow
<asac> sure
<asac> i still think that the clean solution would be to move the zoom capability to tinymail :)
<Mithrandir> StevenK: h-i-m> excellent; how?
<codi> im trying to add my own application to the mobile-basic-flash plugin
<codi> the flsh*.swf files do not seem to reflect new changes 
<codi> has anyone tried anything on similar lines 
<ian_brasil> codi: have a look at http://ianlawrence.info/random-stuff/location-services-on-ubuntu-mobile/ ..you need to update the xml file
<codi> ian_brasil: thats the i followed 
<codi> but the directory structure has changed and so has conf.xml
<dholbach> that stuff should be on planet ubuntu :)
<ian_brasil> codi: try and download the swf again from moblin.org 
<codi> ian_brasil: thats not achieve my goal
<ian_brasil> codi: how has the directory structure changed?..in the moblin repos http://www.moblin.org/repos/ it is the same structure as in the example
<cod1> ian_brasil : i missed the snip snip in the example
<cod1> ian_brasil: so my new icon shows up now :)
<smagoun> lool: ping
<lool> smagoun: pong
<smagoun> lool: cheese 0.2.4 in the gutsy ppa doesn't install - looks like it's really the hardy build of cheese
<lool> smagoun: (You might want to batch your request with the next ping; command pipelining!)
<smagoun> :)
<lool> smagoun: That's strange, it doesn't look like it; what's the exact error you get?
<smagoun> http://moblin.pastebin.org/9836
<lool> smagoun: Ah
<lool> smagoun: Might be because of gusty-proposed and gutsy-updates
<lool> smagoun: Try adding gusty-updates to your source.list
<lool> smagoun: Yeah, probably the updates
<lool> smagoun: You're welcome to file a bug against MIC to also pull from -updates and -security
<smagoun> lool: thanks. I'll try that + file a bug
<davidm> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 17:00. The chair is davidm.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<davidm> Good morning everyone.
<davidm> Is everyone one present?
<Mithrandir> good morning, davidm
<agoliveira> davidm: Hi David.
<davidm> Might as well get started
<davidm> [topic] bfiller to for looking into a better solution for a banner to be
<MootBot> New Topic:  bfiller to for looking into a better solution for a banner to be 
<Mithrandir> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/Meeting/20071129 is today's topic.
<robr2> davidm: hi
<bfiller> I have a fix but haven't committed it yet because of other issues I'm having with hildon-desktop
<bfiller> I flied a bug in hildon-desktop about the problems
<bfiller> hoping that lool or bspencer could help investigate
<davidm> bfiller, what is the bug #?
 * lool didn't see the bug yet, but didn't try with the flash UI either
<bfiller> davidm: hold on, let me check
<lool> bug #172426 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 172426 in hildon-desktop "home screen having issues with scrolling and focus" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172426
<bfiller> davidm: bug number 172426
<davidm> bfiller, thanks
<davidm> lool, can you take a look at this?
<bfiller> note, could be a moblin issue and not a problem with hildon-desktop, just not sure yet
<lool> davidm: If I can reproduce it, I guess I could try to investigate
<davidm> thanks
<bfiller> moblin meaning mobile-basic-flash or other associated packages
<bfiller> is bspencer going to be joining us?
<davidm> [action] lool to take a look at bug # 172426 and see if he can reproduce it.
<bfiller> he might be able to assist here as well
<MootBot> ACTION received:  lool to take a look at bug # 172426 and see if he can reproduce it. 
<davidm> bfiller, should I carry the topic again?
<bfiller> davidm: sure
<lool> I appended it slightly for the end of the topic to be readable
<davidm> [action] carry over bfiller to for looking into a better solution for a banner to be
<MootBot> ACTION received:  carry over bfiller to for looking into a better solution for a banner to be 
<lool> Oh well :)
<davidm> is bspenser here?
<agoliveira> Hmmm... Like Yoda sounds like this, yes...
<davidm> I don't see him and the next topic is his.
<lool> Pinged around on #moblin
<davidm> OK skipping the next topic then
<davidm> the next series of topics relate to USB Client
<davidm> [topic] bspencer & Don_Johnson to clarify the process and deliverables.
<MootBot> New Topic:  bspencer & Don_Johnson to clarify the process and deliverables. 
<davidm> Don_Johnson, since you are here any comments?
<Don_Johnson> I had a good discussion with the USB Client developer last night.
<ToddBrandt> here
<Don_Johnson> I have not had a chance to write up anything for the mailing list yet.
<lool> smagoun: I appended to your action item; I hope my addition is correct (the one on psb / exa)
<smagoun> lool: thx, looks good
<smagoun> Don_Johnson: when do you expect to have a writeup?
<Don_Johnson> With respect to the question about whether users select folders to export, this feature is coded into the USB Client utility, that runs on the client.
<Don_Johnson> To disable it would require modifying the USB Client Utilty code.
<lool> Don_Johnson: So the users are expected to be able to browse /any/ place on the MID device?
<agoliveira> bspencer: Hi Bob.
<bspencer> agoliveira, hello.
<bspencer> lool, no.  We will restrict them
<Don_Johnson> It seems like that is the way the USB Client utility is written.
<bspencer> it is up to us to decide that, right?
<smagoun> lool: what our group would do would be to hardcode certain dirs so the user wouldn't have to configure anything
<lool> bspencer: backlog is in http://people.dooz.org/~lool/um-20071129.txt
<bspencer> I assume the USB connection to PC is only for personal content.  So we can just expose those pieces
<Don_Johnson> From my discussion with Henry, the USB Client utilty lets the user decide what to export.  I don't know what is visible to the USB Client utility.
<lool> Don_Johnson: Did you get clarifications about mass storage mode versus rndis mode?  When does one use the first or the second?
<davidm> I'm confused, one of the key questions was exporting an ext3 Linux file system to mount on Windows.  Has that been solved?
<Don_Johnson> two questions one answer, coming up.
<davidm> Does the USB Client code bypass the issue?
<lool> davidm: Isn't the "USB Client" code the RNDIS client stuff?
<Don_Johnson> The devie starts up in mass store mode and exports VFAT partition, which is used for autoinstall on the Host (i.e. Windows host side utility)
<davidm> OK, where does this vfat partition come from?
<Don_Johnson> Once the host side utility is installed the client and host utilities negotiate and it switches to RNDS mode.
<lool> Don_Johnson: So typically a fixed content on the MID device, not visible to the end MID user
<davidm> lool, I am not sure so I'm asking questions ;-)
<Don_Johnson> The VFAT partition is on the MID, an appears to be specific for autoinstall. However if the client side utility is disabled it stays in mass store mode
<Mithrandir> so it's never really an USB mass storage device, and is only really useful in rndis mode?
<lool> Don_Johnson: Is the user allowed to add stuff to this vfat?  Either from MID or from PC?
<smagoun> Don_Johnson: do you know if HappyCamp or Praj is working on change to Image Creator to incorporate that VFAT partition?
<Don_Johnson> Mithrandir: yes
<bspencer> smagoun, we have discussed this possibility but don't like it
<Don_Johnson> I'm not aware of what is going on with Image Creator.
<bspencer> (VFAT partition)
<bspencer> we are trying to work with the USB client guys to figure out how to not have vFAT, but that would be the fallback
<lool> I guess we could have the vfat partition generated by a separate package; doesn't need to be in MIC
<smagoun> bspencer: then I'm confused. How does the VFAT partition get on the device?
<Don_Johnson> I'd like to get this written up with some use cases and put it on the mail lsit.
<bspencer> the disadvantages of vfat are obvious:  split disk size, no permissions/security, etc.
<davidm> [action] Don_Johnson to get this written up (USB info) with some use cases and put it on the mail list.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Don_Johnson to get this written up (USB info) with some use cases and put it on the mail list. 
<bspencer> smagoun, if we can not develop a solution that doesn't require VFAT, then yes, Image Creator will create VFAT partition for media
<bspencer> s/media/user data such as media
<davidm> bspencer, that will effect install sizes then?
<bspencer> certainly
<smagoun> bspencer: I thought the VFAT partition was required to store the host utility, even if the rest of hte filesystem + data is on ext3
<sodarock_laptop> smagoun: they have asked me to think about adding the vfat to MIC.  I haven't done it yet.  Still working on Yum support.
<Don_Johnson> smagoun, from my discussion with Henry, yes, the VFAT partition is required to support autoinstall
<lool> If could as well be a vfat file on the MID, no?
<Don_Johnson> I believe for autoinstall from MID the vfat filesystem would have to be on the MID.  What am I missing in your question?
<lool> Don_Johnson: Is the user supposed to be able to add files to this VFAT when the MID is still in mass storage mode?
<davidm> Can we look at this next week after Don_Johnson has had time to write it up and put it on the mailing list?
<sodarock_laptop> Don_Johnson: are you 100% sure that you can do auto install with VFAT?  I know things like the U3 system have a fake CD-ROM drive to do auto install.
<lool> IOW: is it read write, or just like an installation CD
<smagoun> lool: yes, if it's exported as a drive via USB client :)
<lool> smagoun: But then it's not necessarily the VFAT anymore
<agoliveira> davidm: +1 at least for me it's a bit confusing right now
<Don_Johnson> I'll try to address these additinal questions in the write up.  I don't have answers right now.
<davidm> Don_Johnson, bspencer, are you both OK taking this to the email lists and then talking about it next week?
<smagoun> lool: the file can be a self-contained VFAT filesystem that's loopback mounted + exported over USB. Not good for general use, but possibly good enough for use as a way to get the host utility onto the host system
<Don_Johnson> I am OK taking it to the email list, and updating next week.
<sodarock_laptop> smagoun: I'm not sure that a loopback file will work, rustyl knows more.
<lool> smagoun: That's exactly what I was thinking of, I think that's fairly easy -- unless we allow read write to that
<lool> smagoun: If the vfat ends up containing user data, then we need to be able to mount it from the MID too
<smagoun> Don_Johnson: This USB client thing has been up in the air since at least UDS. Let's get it nailed down next week.
<davidm> [action] carry over to next week: bspencer & Don_Johnson to clarify the process and deliverables
<MootBot> ACTION received:  carry over to next week: bspencer & Don_Johnson to clarify the process and deliverables 
<sodarock_laptop> He was saying something that the "gadget driver" is pointed to a /dev/ entry.
<lool> smagoun: And then you ask yourself the question: how do I prevent it from being mounted from Windows and the MID at the same time :)
<sodarock_laptop> Now maybe a file would work but I'm not sure.
<smagoun> lool: no data on VFAT, just the host utility.
<lool> smagoun: Which is why I kept asking about whether the user is supposed to be able to add/remove files on the device when in mass storage mode / vfat
<lool> smagoun: That's what I wanted clarified by Don_Johnson 
<smagoun> lool: I vote no
<lool> smagoun: Oh I vote no, if I get to vote :)
<davidm> unless there are objections I am going to jump back to the skipped action
<bspencer> lool: +1.  Just put "Syncing" on the screen
<davidm> [topic] continue to hold open: bspencer & horaceli to verify the ubuntu branch works
<MootBot> New Topic:  continue to hold open: bspencer & horaceli to verify the ubuntu branch works 
<lool> bspencer: +1 to what?  To allow mounting it from a single place or to disallow ever writing to the vfat?
<bspencer> lool:  whether the user is supposed to be able to add/remove files on the device when in mass storage mode / vfat
<bspencer> disallow writing
<bspencer> davidm, Horace and I have not tried the flash app launching
<davidm> bspencer, carry over again?
<bspencer> only the HTML app launching
<bspencer> davidm, yes
<davidm> [action] continue to hold open: bspencer & horaceli to verify the ubuntu branch works
<MootBot> ACTION received:  continue to hold open: bspencer & horaceli to verify the ubuntu branch works 
<davidm> [topic] carry over smagoun Since my group needs it, I'll take an action item to test overriding exa for a gutsy psb backport
<MootBot> New Topic:  carry over smagoun Since my group needs it, I'll take an action item to test overriding exa for a gutsy psb backport 
<smagoun> I haven't done more work on the PSB/EXA issue, please carry over the task (again)
<bfiller> bspencer: if you could take a look at this bug I filed, it might be helpful: Launchpad bug 172426 in hildon-desktop "home screen having issues with scrolling and focus" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172426
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 172426 in hildon-desktop "home screen having issues with scrolling and focus" [Undecided,New] 
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 172426 in hildon-desktop "home screen having issues with scrolling and focus" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172426
<bfiller> oops
<bspencer> bfiller, ok
<davidm> [action]  carry over smagoun Since my group needs it, I'll take an action item to test overriding exa for a gutsy psb backport
<MootBot> ACTION received:   carry over smagoun Since my group needs it, I'll take an action item to test overriding exa for a gutsy psb backport 
<bspencer> bfiller, thanks for logging these
<bfiller> bspencer: sure
<davidm> [topic] kyleN to test h-i-m and get back to StevenK on status Mobile Application spec:
<MootBot> New Topic:  kyleN to test h-i-m and get back to StevenK on status Mobile Application spec: 
<kyleN> steveK added the h-i-m stuff. the gnome documentation for h-i-m is minimal and in a short period of trying I couldn't get anything to work. I'll try again later, so please carry over.
<davidm> [action] kyleN to test h-i-m and get back to StevenK on status Mobile Application spec: (issue documentation is light)
<MootBot> ACTION received:  kyleN to test h-i-m and get back to StevenK on status Mobile Application spec: (issue documentation is light) 
<davidm> [tpoic] bspencer to email his suggested levels to this list shortly
<davidm> [topic] bspencer to email his suggested levels to this list shortly
<MootBot> New Topic:  bspencer to email his suggested levels to this list shortly 
<bspencer> forgot... mailing now
<davidm> bspencer, OK so no additional action at this point?
<bspencer> no
<davidm> [topic] tonyespy to test if wifi keys & passphrases are remembered after reboot or r
<MootBot> New Topic:  tonyespy to test if wifi keys & passphrases are remembered after reboot or r 
<tonyespy> they're not right now
<tonyespy> due to gnome-keyring-manager not being started
<tonyespy> i've figured out how to start it...
<lool> Does anyone know how Nokia does it on N800?
<lool> Are they using something else?  Or how are they starting gkd?
<tonyespy> they're connection-mgr is proprietary
<agoliveira> lool: IIRC, proprietary stuff
<lool> tonyespy: So it doesn't put the passwds in a global keyring?
<lool> Ok
<tonyespy> no...it's user-specific
<Mithrandir> tonyespy: have you tried to run it manually in the session and see if they're then saved?
<tonyespy> Mithrandir: yes... it works, but the user is prompted to enter a pw for the keyring
<Mithrandir> tonyespy: ok, so it's still not great, but it's better.  The keyring passphrase problem is being fixed upstream
<tonyespy> i'm trying to see if i can hard-code the pw for now, so the user never sees the keyring pw prompt
<tonyespy> Mithrandir: it doesn't look like it's been fixed upstream yet
<Mithrandir> tonyespy: it will be for hardy.
<tonyespy> Mithrandir: only if NM upstream implements it 
<bfiller> Mithrandir: can you summarize what the fix is?
<tonyespy> there is no fix yet
<bfiller> "proposed" fix?
<tonyespy> NM 0.7 has a ToDo item to add global settings 
<tonyespy> there's no detail on how it's supposed to work
<tonyespy> so i don't know if it involves the keyring mgr or not
<Mithrandir> tonyespy: uh, no?  It's getting gnome-keyring to support blank passwords.
<Mithrandir> see http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=386866
<ubotu> Gnome bug 386866 in general "gnome-keyring should support blank passwords" [Normal,Assigned] 
<Mithrandir> no need for global settings there?
<lool> tonyespy: I think the problem is that the initial keyring needs to be created with a password; if you can precreate it without a password, it should work
<lool> (IIUC)
<tonyespy> lool: i'm not sure a MID user wants/needs the complexity of a keyring
<tonyespy> i'd like to get rid of it for MID; global settings in NM is one way 
<agoliveira> tonyespy: I'm convinced that doesn't
<davidm> tonyespy, we have to have it too may applications expect it and would require rewrites to remove it.
<davidm> Better to remove need for password
<tonyespy> davidm: have you ever tried to change an AP key?
<Mithrandir> tonyespy: fixing gnome-keyring-manager to support blank passwords is a lot easier than implementing global settings in NM.  I'm not saying we won't see global settings, but fixing it in gnome-keyring-manager is enough for us.
<davidm> AP?? Access point?
<tonyespy> yea
<tonyespy> right now, nm-applet saves AP keys in the keyring as hex values.  blech
<Mithrandir> as in, reauthenticate if the WPA key has changed?  I've done it, it just worked, iirc.
<Mithrandir> I had to type in the new passphrase, of course.
<tonyespy> Mithrandir: how did you get the passphrase dialog to re-appear?
<Mithrandir> tonyespy: I selected the network and it just gave me the initial dialog, iirc.
<Mithrandir> just like what happens if you write the wrong password.
<davidm> 20 minute warning ....
<bspencer> davidm   [topic] bspencer to email his suggested levels to this list shortly.     [Done]
<davidm> thanks bspencer 
<Mithrandir> anyway, move on?
<tonyespy> ok, for now, i'm working on making blank pw work for keyring short-term
<tonyespy> long-term, i'm working on the mobile-networking blueprint....
<tonyespy> let's move-on
<Mithrandir> please make sure to talk to upstream so anything you do can just be merged with their stuff.
<davidm> [topic] smagoun - X fails to start on Crown Beach with recent images, will investigate
<MootBot> New Topic:  smagoun - X fails to start on Crown Beach with recent images, will investigate 
<smagoun> The problem is that the PSB + DRM drivers in l-u-m need to be updated to the latest version in the psb-kmd project at moblin.org. This needs to be coordinated with an xf86-video-psb update (the two should be updated at the same time).
<tonyespy> Mithrandir: will do
<smagoun> Since we're pulling from moblin's repo - which has the latest xf86-video-psb - we had to update our l-u-m
<smagoun> I think amitk + bryce(?) need to coordinate to make sure that both the l-u-m and xf86-video-psb updates happen at the same time for hardy
<davidm> amitk, thoughts?
<amitk> smagoun: first hardy kernel is being uploaded today. But it won't have these changes. We should have them for Alpha 2, though
<amitk> smagoun: will updating the drivers to PPA suffice for now?
<smagoun> We're not switching to hardy just yet; the problem will only affect people using hardy on menlow.
<smagoun> amitk: that would be fine, though the corresponding xf86-video-psb should go into the PPA to avoid problems for people not pulling from moblin
<davidm> amitk, can you take an action to make that happen?
<amitk> bryce should be able to take care of the xf86 driver
<amitk> davidm: sure
<lool> I hope that doesn't imply a xorg backport
<lool> Or Bryce will kill us all
<smagoun> It shouldn't - just that module
<davidm> [action] amitk to update hardy ppa with drivers
<MootBot> ACTION received:  amitk to update hardy ppa with drivers 
<amitk> lool: good point :)
<davidm> OK next topic?
<smagoun> If it does imply an xorg backport, don't bother - we (MID team) have a workaround already
<davidm> 10 minute warning
<davidm> smagoun, amitk OK to move on?
<smagoun> ok
<davidm> [topic] davidm to have amit contact smagoun when back from vacation.
<MootBot> New Topic:  davidm to have amit contact smagoun when back from vacation. 
<smagoun> davidm: he just did :)
<amitk> ok
<davidm> Good ;-)
<smagoun> we're all set for this one
<davidm> Good good
<davidm> on to new business only one I see at the moment
<davidm> [topic] Confirmation of place for Mobile sprint - agoliveira
<MootBot> New Topic:  Confirmation of place for Mobile sprint - agoliveira 
<lool> bspencer: "Buildable in target environment with autogen, configure, make"?  You mean buildable in the standard dev environment, no external dep?  You might want to avoid this wording for e.g. python apps
<agoliveira> Yep. Looks like that we might have a change of venue and I would like to know if there's any confirmation either way.
<davidm> The sprint is in Hillsboro OR in the US at the End of January Jan 28 - Feb 1 should arrive Jan 27th 
<bspencer> lool,  good point.  
<bspencer> lool,  I'd like to clarify for C and pythong though, rather than be too vague
<davidm> I have confirmed that we will be there and those on my team should go ahead and get tickets anytime
<agoliveira> davidm: Fine. Just to want to be sure before plan for it.
<agoliveira> davidm: That's all for me.
<davidm> K
<davidm> I have no other new business
<Burgundavia> anybody around?
<lool> bspencer: Well about apps in shell, perl, etc.?
<bspencer> lool,   for those I can put what you said.
<davidm> lool, bspencer is this a new topic?
<Sciri> Burgundavia: Lots of people around; IRC meeting.
<bspencer> davidm, no .   just chatting about apps criteria
<davidm> OK just making sure
<lool> davidm: Sorry commenting on the levels bspencer sent
 * lool keeps it for post meeting
<davidm> OK if there is no other new business I'll close the meeting
<bspencer> lool,   buildable in the standard dev environment, no external dev.   For C:  autogen, configure, make.   For Python:  ....
<davidm> Going once ........
<bspencer> lool,  I guess I want to suggest autogen is used.
<lool> bspencer: Just FYI, some python apps are building via autogen + configure + make :)
<lool> bspencer: Why not simply require Debian policy compliant packaging or something?
<davidm> Going twice ..........
<lool> bspencer: And only allowed build-deps from dev set
<kyleN> someday I'll write an SDK to clarify all this ... ;)
<agoliveira> $120!
<davidm> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 17:57.
<davidm> agoliveira, $120??
<Sciri> Sold! Do agoliveira for $120!
<lool> Sciri: I thought the same :)
<agoliveira> davidm: I got into the going once, twice stuff :)
<Sciri> s/Do/To/
<lool> I'm tempted to fortune this, but it's a bit too contextual :)
<agoliveira> Sciri: Thats for the last bit. I was starting to get offended :)
 * ian_brasil wonders what he agoliveira bought
<Sciri> agoliveira: Yeah...that was a bit of a bad typo ;)
<agoliveira> ian_brasil: Hopefully my ticket out of packaging!
<bspencer> lool, good suggestion.  can you write up a suggestion in reply?
<bspencer> lool, with details of commands to run or a link
<lool> bspencer: Oh on second thought it looks fine like this -- grin :>
<bspencer> lool,  :)
<lool> Ok
<lool> bspencer: Would have been easier to fix it in a wiki or to reply to the text of an email BTW
<agoliveira> bspencer: That's the cartoon I keep telling you about: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God,_the_Devil_and_Bob
<raji> asac, You there?
<asac> raji: high latency, but yes
<smagoun> has anyone tried video recording in cheese? (agoliveira?)
<smagoun> On my Q1 with external camera it segfaults (taking pictures works fine)
<agoliveira> smagoun: I didn't try on my Q1 but works fine on my notebook
<Jayc_> amitk: Rob asked me to test the ubuntu kernel on C0. How/where do I get the ubuntu kernel ?
<Jayc_> amitk: I just sent an email to you. could you please take a look?
<ian_brasil> i am getting a dependency problem on 'ubuntu-mobile: Depends: cheese but it is not going to be installed' when installing samsung full mobile stack using deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntu-mobile/ubuntu gutsy main
<ian_brasil> >  (0.37~710um1 ATM)
<ian_brasil> using MIC 0.37~710um1 rather
<smagoun> ian_brasil: cheese in the PPA requires adding the gutsy-updates and gutsy-security repositories (MIC doesn't enable them by default)
<ian_brasil> ah ok
<Jayc_> Where can I get the ubuntu kernel (PPA) that I can install on a crownbeach C0 system?
<Jayc_> any one, please?
<StevenK> Jayc_: You just need the .deb, or you need to build an image with it?
<Jayc_> StevenK: I just want to check if Ubuntu kernel from PPA works on CrownBeach C0 system, so can I hust use the deb?
<Jayc_> StevenK: I tried this http://ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntu-mobile/ubuntu/pool/main/l/linux-source-2.6.22/linux-image-2.6.22-14-lpia_2.6.22-14.48_lpia.deb
<Jayc_> StevenK: I installed the above deb on CB with moblin menlow image and during boot it stops with initramfs prompt.
<StevenK> Yeah, probably because /boot is a seperate filesystem with images created with image-creator
<Jayc_> StevenK: Should I build an image with Ubuntu kernel, if so how do I do that? 
<StevenK> Jayc_: If you dump the PPA deb line when you build the image, it should just fall out
<Jayc_> How do I do that? I'm familiar with creating images through image-creator. sorry I'm a newbie to linux, I still haven't caught up with the linux lingo :-)
<StevenK> Jayc_: It requires you add that PPA line to your image-creator config.
<Jayc_> OK, And then I create the ubuntu-mobile image with ubuntu-kernal fset?
<StevenK> I'd suggest you use the normal FSET
<Jayc_> you mean, moblin-corwnbeach-full-mobile... FSET and nothing else?
<StevenK> Yeah, that will give you the kernel and everything else
<Jayc_> OK, thanks for you help. I will try it out
<StevenK> Cool.
<Jayc_>  /you/your :-)
<HappyCamp> StevenK, do you know how to ask to get rsync access enabled for ppa.launchpad.net?
<HappyCamp> We would like to mirror it internally here at Intel.
<StevenK> Um.
<StevenK> "No" is the short answer, sorry.
<StevenK> HappyCamp: If you can talk http, debmirror ought to be able to mirror it
<HappyCamp> Okay, thanks
<Jayc_> HappyCamp: Do I need to change anything in the target sources.list? I did remove all the .list files in the sources.list.d and added the ppa.list as you suggested
<HappyCamp> Jayc_, that should be it, and then do an apt-get update
<Jayc_> HappyCamp: I did apt-get update. And while I'm adding the crownbeach-full FSET, I see an error 
<Jayc_> W: Some index files failed to download, they have been ignored, or old ones used instead.
<StevenK> There should be a reason for that above that line.
<Jayc_> Could not connect to linux-ftp.jf.intel.com:80 (10.23.61.25), connection timed out
<Jayc_> I also see the error "Couldn't find package libbluetooth2"
<StevenK> I daresay that is a result of being unable to connect to linux-ftp.jf.intel.com
#ubuntu-mobile 2007-11-30
<Jayc_> Now I get the error "E: Couldn't find package telepathy-mission-control"
<Jayc_> StevenK, HappyCamp: This method is not working. so I will create a crownbeach-full image and then download the PPA deb package and install it on the target. I hope it should work. 
<StevenK> Jayc_: If you do so, you'll need to mount /boot manually before you install it.
<Jayc_> well, The initial image doesn't boot to stat with :-(
<lool> asac: /usr/bin/ld: warning: libsqlite3.so, needed by /usr/lib/xulrunner-devel-1.9b1/lib/libxul.so, not found (try using -rpath or -rpath-link)
<lool> /usr/bin/ld: warning: libmozjs.so, needed by /usr/lib/xulrunner-devel-1.9b1/lib/libxul.so, not found (try using -rpath or -rpath-link)
<lool> asac: This is a bit weird
<lool> asac: And this seems worse: /usr/lib/xulrunner-devel-1.9b1/lib/libxul.so: undefined reference to `JS_SetContextPrivate'
<lool> But then this might be tinymail's fault
<StevenK> But I don't see those
<lool> I think I saw something related as the second error in some Debian package a while ago
<lool> Somehow, upstream doesn't require js stuff when you use xul, I think it was in totem
<lool> Ah, xulrunner has its own libsqlite3
<lool> asac: Hmm why does /usr/lib/xulrunner-devel-1.9b1/lib/libxul.so link to libsqlite3.so but doesn't have any rpath to the sqlite3.so in the package?
<jussi01> Is it possible to run ubuntu mobile on Arm (ie. is there images compiled for arm?)
<mjg59> No
<asac> lool: what are you doing?
<asac> lool: what are you trying to port?
<lool> asac: tinymail
<asac> he? ... StevenK already built that :)
<lool> asac: His version doesn't build here; didn't build for Mithrandir either, but I don't know why
<asac> lool: lets see if i still have the patch
<lool> asac: One thing wrong with the patch is to test for xulrunner last in the list; this prevents building on e.g. my environment where I have firefox
<lool> -dev
<lool> asac: I have an updated patch whic fails at this place if you like
<asac> lool: cant you say: --with-gecko=xulrunner or something?
<asac> please show me
<lool> asac: There's no such arg; but I planned adding one
<lool> asac: In fact I made the macros checking the module parametrizable, but didn't implement ac_arg_with yet
<jussi01> Ok, cool. is it possible to compile it for Arm11 ? 
<mjg59> jussi01: It should be
<mjg59> But we don't build Ubuntu for arm at all right now
<lool> asac: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lool/xul-fixes.dpatch is what I use ATM
<lool> asac: But the "libxul-1.9 mozilla-js-1.9" in configure.ac I plan to drop as it didn't help
<jussi01> mjg59: great. Is it something ubuntu mobile would like to pursue in the future?
<asac> lool: http://people.ubuntu.com/~asac/tinymail.xul19.patch
<asac> s/libxul-embedding/libxul-embedding-1.9/
<asac> that should work
<mjg59> jussi01: I don't think we're looking at it right now
<mjg59> jussi01: It'll depend on demand
<jussi01> mjg59: Ah, I understand. Thanks for your time. :)
<asac> lool: for me it builds against the trunnk tinymail
<lool> asac: Perhaps trunk builds
<asac> StevenK told me that you need trunk
<StevenK> ... but 0.0.5 builds for me....
<asac> because of some features that modest needs
<StevenK> I took one patch from SVN
<lool> asac: Do you have libsqlite3-dev installed?
<asac> ii  libsqlite3-dev         3.4.2-1build1          SQLite 3 development files
<lool> Might explain why you don't get the ld warnings as above
<lool> asac: Do you agree there should be a rpath?
<asac> no
<asac> thats the idea
<asac> just use libxul-embedding and the GLUE
<lool> asac: So should we drop the libsqlite3.so from xul then?
<asac> thats what you see in code
<asac> no not either
<asac> or wait
<asac> sorry
<lool> I mean a rpath on sqlite, not on xul
<asac> lool: please try just the patch i gave you and give me the error you get then
<lool> asac: I'll have to change it to pull xul first
<asac> you can also uninstall firefox-dev for a minute ;)
<lool> asac: aha
<lool> asac: It built at first, but it stopped doing so when configured like the deb package --with-platform=maemo --enable-demoui --enable-gnome --enable-tp --with-html-component=mozembed
<lool> asac: configure: error: "You need Mozilla's XPCOM"
<asac> interesting
<asac> config.log?
<lool> Well it's broekn configure:26275: checking Mozilla XPCOM pkg-config module name
<asac> for me it builds with: sh autogen.sh --with-html-component=mozembed
<lool> (no module name printed)
<asac> lool: yes you have to use libxul-embedding-1.9
<asac> the patch has just libxul-embedding
<asac> (as i told you in the beginning ... sorry should have repeated)
<lool> asac: Ah my mistake, sorry
 * asac building without libsqlite3-dev
<lool> Right, configure passes with -1.9
<asac> works as well
<lool> asac: Indeed, it built fine
<asac> cool ... now lets go for modest
<asac> whats the point of having the zoom method in there?
<asac> i think that logic should be moved to tinymail
<asac> can you do that?
<asac> that would simplify things a lot
<lool> asac: Aha, for some reason I used "mozilla-nspr-1.9" instead of "nspr"; why shouldn't I use that?
<asac> lool: in basic embedding cases you don't need nspr anymore
<asac> try to drop that
<lool> asac: Upstream is using nspr
<asac> yeah ... its for 1.8
<asac> if you link against glue only and it builds without -DXPCOM_GLUE_USE_NSPR ... then you won't need it anymore
<lool> asac: I'm not sure I want to patch upstream to stop pulling nspr; the fact is they are right now, and I wonder why we have multiple versions and why one should be preferred and not the other (I hope I'm not too annoying in asking you to teach me about this :)
<lool> asac: Also, why did you use libxul-embedding-1.9 for mozilla_xpcom_pcs instead of libxul-1.9 ?!
<asac> lool: libxul-embedding is for standalone things ... libxul-1.9 is for dependent things (e.g. things that get loaded in an already running xpcom/xul environment (like plugins/native extensions)
<asac> lool: http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/XPCOM_Glue
<lool> asac: Ok, I got my version to build now by changing to the libnss nss the libnspr nspr and using -embedding everywhere
<lool> asac: The upstream m4 macros used mozilla_xpcom_pcs to lookup xpcom (I think) and mozilla_gtkmozembed_pcs to lookup gtkmozembed; why not use libxul for xpcom?  Isn't xpcom the same in both?
<lool> asac: Ok, I think I got it
<lool> asac: What was previously only firefox-xpcom now is libxul-embedding-1.9 or libxul-1.9 depending on whether you're starting xul or whether you're started from xul; correct?
<asac> right
<lool> asac: Still, shouldn't it build would I use the libxul-1.9's xpcom?
<asac> lool: point is that they enforce frozen linkage now ... so directly linking doesn't give you any benefit over glue
<asac> lool: no ... because you lack symbols ... like you saw above
<lool> Ok
<lool> asac: And what's the story with nss?
<lool> and nspr
<asac> after all the libs are shipped in pkglibdir ... which means ... don't like against us :)
<lool> Are we moving to using these separate libs?
<asac> s/like/link/
<lool> It would sound "logical" to me that if you try to link to xulrunner-1.9's gtkmozembed stuff, you would do good to try to link to ist nss and nspr at the same time
<asac> lool: apps that don't use xpcom can stay the same ... they use the system nspr/nss as usual
<asac> the other apps should drop the linkage as its not needed and more portable. for those few cases where you need to use the glue with -DXPCOM_GLUE_USE_NSPR we need to link against system-nspr/nss
<asac> lool: well ... if you don't use it you shouldn't do that because the glue loads the right nspr for you at runtime
<lool> asac: Concretely, I wonder whether I should be adding b-deps on libnss-dev and libnspr-dev as to explicitely reference these which are used in m4/moz.m4
<lool> asac: Ah ok, nss and nspr are pulled over xpcom
<asac> lool: they shouldn't be used in xul 1.9 anymore ... just for 1.8 :) ... otherwise xulrunner-1.9-dev should give you the dependencies i guess?
<lool> asac: Yeah, but as I said hte macros are explicitely pulling these deps
<asac> yes ... the macro needs to be fixed then.
<asac> and my patch already touches it anyways
<lool> asac: Did you discuss the xulrunner 1.9 issues with upstream?
<asac> which issues?
<lool> I mean merging the changes you did and not checking for nss and nspr when xulrunner 1.9 is used?
<asac> mozilla upstream?
<lool> No, tinymail
<lool> Sorry, I wasn't clear :)
<asac> why would i? I first heard of tinymail yesterday :) ... my idea is to develop the patch here and send it upstream. They will need it if they want to support xulrunner 1.9 anyways.
<lool> asac: Oh ok; I have no idea of the date the patch was written at; I was just wondering what they though of this, whether they would take it etc.
<asac> yeah ... please send it upstream :)
<asac> if they have a bts you can cc me
<lool> asac: The reason I ask is because I'd like to know whether  $mozilla_xpcom_includedir/unstable makes sense for older xulrunner versions as well
<asac> no it doesn't ... the diff should test if its there and otherwise don't use it
<lool> Since how long do they have /unstable and /stable?
<asac> since 1.9
<asac> before it was different
<asac> as everything :)
<lool> haha
<lool> asac: The numbering in the .pc files sucks I think, is this temporary or is upstream also shipping with this -$major.$minor.pc naming scheme?
<asac> thats we only atm ... we will drop it with next upload.
<lool> asac: So the libxul-embedding-1.9 stuff shouldn't be sent upstream, rather it should be libxul-embedding I guess or the AC_ARG_WITH
<asac> yes
<asac> but please try to remove the nspr/nss linkage if you have 1.9
<lool> asac: Is it ok to do that if MOZILLA_VERSION_U >= 1.9?
<asac> lool: for current xul its: #define MOZILLA_VERSION_U 1.9b1
<asac> no idea if moz.m4 cuts of after 9
<lool> asac: I'll tell you: #define MOZEMBED_MOZILLA_VERSION "$mozilla_version"
<lool> :-P
<lool> 1.9b1 gives "1 9 1" in m4/moz.m4's logic, bad
<asac> lool: why we want >= 1.9 ... isn't that true then?
<lool> asac: Yeah, it's true, but it's true for a broken reason
<asac> ;)
<lool> seems like two wrongs do make a right :)
<lool> asac: So thanks for all your help and explanations
<asac> lool: please do modest as well :)
<asac> ... would be great if we could get that working asap
<lool> asac: Do you think we could have libxul*.pc set includedir to /usr/include/xulrunner-1.9b1/{includetype}?  This would allow querying the proper dir
<lool> asac: tinymail + modest are StevenK's babies; you wouldn't be to take away a baby, would you?  I just chimed in because it wouldn't build for me (due to firefox-dev) which made me go through the whole patch again
<lool> Now I guess I'll pursue until I have something to send upstream, since I learnt about it all :)
<asac> hmm ... i will think about the includedir variable thing. thanks for the suggestion
<StevenK> lool: Does that mean modest builds too?
<asac> StevenK: we didn't try that
 * StevenK has been distracted
<asac> i thought you ran into issues yesterday
<StevenK> I did, I fixed those and ran into more :-)
<asac> hehe
<lool> StevenK: I guess it will build better soon, but then you poked Mithrandir on that already; I'm happy yo help if Mithrandir doesn't find out (unlikely) or ends up being too busy
<StevenK> lool: So, does tinymail require patching?
<lool> StevenK: At the very least to prevent usage of firefox-dev, yes
<StevenK> lool: Right, okay. Mind sending me the diff?
<StevenK> lool: And it seems Mithrandir is too busy, would you mind terribly poking at modest?
<lool> StevenK: Of course I will; if it builds for you that perhaps can wait until I cleanup some stuff as to render the patch acceptabel upstream?
<lool> StevenK: Ok
<StevenK> lool: Yeah, I was pondering sending Philip the patch, but only when I verified it could build against both
<raji> asac, you there?
<asac> j
<asac> y
<raji> asac, 'Create new network' does not work on moblin environment. Driver times out , 
<asac> you see in log that it calls the supplicant?
<raji> asac, yes
<asac> raji: ok same game then ... reproduce with supplicant alone and see which error you get
<raji> asac, do I need to give any different command to wpasupplicant, for telling it to create a new network? or is it just like testing connectivity?
<kyleN> davidm, bfiller: will mobile support backup? upgrade spec says backup occurs before upgrade. finalizing prd now 
<raji> asac, Is it same as testing connectivity
<asac> raji: you can also hack network-manager to start wpasupplicant with -dd
<bfiller> Mithrandir: is there a problem with the nightly UME builds? Looks like none have updated on cdimage.ubuntu.com/moblin since 11-26 
<bfiller> kyleN: 3.4.17 there is a new sound control panel, I'll email you the screen shot (it's in yesterdays image)
<smagoun> bfiller: wrong channel - this one's public
<kyleN> ok
<bfiller> smagoun: right
<raji> asac, How do I hack?
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-11-24
<smartguyz> need help setting up wireshark in ubuntu....?
<Hobbsee> sudo apt-get install wireshark; sudo wireshark?
<Hobbsee> also, you probably want #ubuntu
<smartguyz> thanks...
 * Hobbsee shakes fist at rss-glx, and declares victory.
<Hobbsee> and uploaded.  One armel build failure fixed.
<smartguyz> anyone have ubuntu mobile
<smartguyz> does it work on older pocket pc v5.0 devices???
<DNis> hi
<DNis> lastests ubuntu-mid are live filesystems now ?
<DNis> i'm talking about images
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-11-25
<blackmouse> hi guys
<blackmouse> I have ume with fluxbox
<blackmouse> I want to install hildon desktop
<blackmouse> so I did apt-get install hildon-desktop
<blackmouse> everything went ok
<blackmouse> until when I start-hildon
<blackmouse> I get a message ' Gtk warning **: cannot open display
<blackmouse> what should I do?
<superm1> hum... so -umpc images include *no* languages preinstalled?
<superm1> is that changing for jaunty i hope?
<asac> fols ... are there install instructions for netbook remix somewhere?
<ogra> asac, there is a howto to switch ubuntu-umpc to ubuntu netbook ... both intrepid though, UNR is hardy only
<asac> ogra: yeah. hardy is good enough
<asac> where?
<ogra> the instructions are for intrepid ... 
<ogra> to my knowledge there is no howto for UNR 
<superm1> ogra, considering evand's usb-creator can put together USB disks now from iso's, is there still a good reason for .img files that need to be dd'ed and overwrite an entire stick?
<ogra> superm1, one step less for the user
<ogra> there i a discussion set up for UDS if we also want to provide iso images
<superm1> ogra, okay.  is there by chance also a discussion set up for making these umpc images more "oem install friendly"?  
<ogra> ??
<ogra> they use ubiquity right now 
<ogra> isnt that enough ? 
<superm1> yeah, but there is no language support on the image
<ogra> right, thats on the list to be added in jaunty
<superm1> well particularly then, will there be an image that includes all the languages in the squashfs?
<superm1> not having them in the squashfs is not of very much use when you don't know what language it's going to be installed to/used for at the time of install
<ogra> well, at least the set that the livecd has
<ogra> likely more up to fill 1G for umpc, lets see
<superm1> the same set that the livecd has isn't enough.  at least for Dell factory installations, we use the DVD for that exact reason
<ogra> *at least* :)
<|GaiJin|> anyone here know if there is anyway to maybe get the ubuntu mobile to a iphone??
<ogra> |GaiJin|, currently there are only ubuntu mobile images for x86
<|GaiJin|> mkay... thanks
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-11-26
<lool> asac: pokely
<lool> asac: xulrunner-1.9: version 1.9.0.3+build1+nobinonly-0ubuntu0.8.04.1+ume1 in http://ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntu-mobile/ubuntu hardy main <= 1.9.0.4+nobinonly-0ubuntu0.8.04.1 in http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu hardy-security main
<lool> ISTR we discussed this already, but a while ago
<cjwatson> Could somebody pull the branch lp:~kamion/hildon-1/ubuntu into lp:~ubuntu-mobile/hildon-1/ubuntu, please? It matches an upload I just made to fix libhildonhelp's failure to build on armel
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-11-27
<cjwatson> Could somebody pull the branch lp:~kamion/hildon-1/ubuntu into lp:~ubuntu-mobile/hildon-1/ubuntu, please? It matches an upload I made to fix libhildonhelp's failure to build on armel
 * ogra saw that message but was assuming it had happened within the last 12h
<cjwatson> doesn't seem to have done
<ogra> no, obviously
<ogra> pushed
<cjwatson> ditto, lp:~kamion/hildon-thumbnail/ubuntu into lp:~ubuntu-mobile/hildon-thumbnail/ubuntu, please
<cjwatson> (thanks)
<ogra> will do ...
 * ogra sighs that all these branches are called ubuntu
<ogra> done
<lool> cjwatson: thanks for the fixes
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-11-28
<BenLauDC> Hi , I have just downloaded the source code of moblin image creator from git repository , but I found none of the platform use intrepid. 
<BenLauDC> Is ubuntu mobile team keep their work in another repository ?
<StevenK> BenLauDC: We don't use MIC with Intrepid
<BenLauDC> SkevenK: ic..  any replacement of MIC?
<StevenK> BenLauDC: For Intrepid and Jaunty, we are using livecd-rootfs to construct the image, along with a script that wraps it up into a vfat image
<BenLauDC> SkevenK: icic , thx!
<theseinfeld> anyone who knows how to explain why the libplasma2 from ports intrepid is dependent on kdebase-workspace-data version 4:4.1.2-0ubuntu9 which is not in the repository anymore?
<theseinfeld> lool?
<ogra> BenLauDC, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Mobile/HowTo/ImageCreation
<theseinfeld> anyone who tried to make a lpia debootstrap from intrepid and then aptitude install libplasma2 will get into this trouble...
<Hobbsee> theseinfeld: which version of libplasma2?
<theseinfeld> the one that is in ports in ubuntu9
<theseinfeld> 4:4.1.2-0ubuntu9 Hobbsee
<BenLauDC> ogra : Thanks!!!
 * Hobbsee scratches head
<Hobbsee> oh.
<Hobbsee> because the latter versions of kdebase-workspace never built.
 * theseinfeld knows...
<theseinfeld> so, we cannot get the plasma2 then?
<StevenK> On lpia?
<Hobbsee> StevenK: yes
<theseinfeld> yes
<StevenK> If it built on i386 and not lpia, that would explain it
<Hobbsee> well, that's a pain.
<theseinfeld> it is not the first time that the autobuilders images have some hickups
<theseinfeld> where are the buildd reports actually?
<theseinfeld> the whole kdebase is not build since ubuntu9
<StevenK> In Launchpad
<Hobbsee> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdebase-workspace/4:4.1.2-0ubuntu13/+build/751761 and such
<theseinfeld> StevenK can you please be more...Thanks Bobbsee
<Hobbsee>   python-kde4-dev: Depends: python-kde4 (= 4:4.1.2-0ubuntu2) but it is not going to be installed
<Hobbsee> I hate when this stuff happens in stable releases.  you can't just give builds back...
<theseinfeld> probably is because of this : python-kde4-dev: Depends: python-kde4 (= 4:4.1.2-0ubuntu2) but it is not going to be installed
<theseinfeld> I just realized this week, but I think it is a very old problem...
<theseinfeld> question is, who knows anyone that can touch the autobuilder :D
<Hobbsee> oh, fer....
<theseinfeld> to fix those dependencies manually so we can build those kdebase packages :D
 * Hobbsee can touch the autobuilder.
 * theseinfeld loves Hobbsee :D
<theseinfeld> I think the last time it build correctly was in the early November :D
<pundiramit> ï»¿hi... ï»¿I have ported gnome-desktop+x11 on omap3-evm... gnome-session comes up nicely but no way to interact with the system... can anyone tell me how can I make tslib work with that?
 * Hobbsee just *loves* circular build dependancies...
 * theseinfeld yeah...what a mess :D
<theseinfeld> Hobbsee, are you on top of this issue? Should I put my faith in you that I will see some kdebase installed?
<Hobbsee> theseinfeld: i'm looking into it, but no promises.
<theseinfeld> Hobbsee, let me know if I can help you...
<theseinfeld> I've been bogged into this the whole week...
<theseinfeld> I even used some old mirror backup to get the kdebase somehow up
<theseinfeld> Hobbsee, did you check actually the proposed one: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+source/kdebase-workspace/4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1 It fails on everything :(
<Hobbsee> yes, i saw that.
<theseinfeld> and the https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+source/kdebase-workspace/4:4.1.2-0ubuntu12 which builds in jaunty but not in intrepid
<theseinfeld> great success :D
<Hobbsee> that didn't build in intrepid...
<Hobbsee> er, jaunty
<theseinfeld> the 4.1.3
 * Hobbsee wonders why that's called 4.1.73...
 * theseinfeld was thinking the same...
<theseinfeld> They are hard working people there ;D
 * theseinfeld wonders...
<theseinfeld> In 5 days from 4.1.2 -> 4.1.73 :D
<theseinfeld> is Riddell online?
<Hobbsee> he's on holidays
<theseinfeld> I guess that explains the lag...
 * Hobbsee wonders why this built on other arches
<theseinfeld> it did?
<theseinfeld> make a diff between the logs :D
<theseinfeld> which version is your focus? ubuntu13?
<theseinfeld> 4.1.2?
<Hobbsee> all of them, so far.
<Hobbsee> Ah, that would be https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kde4bindings/+bug/289402
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 289402 in kdebase-workspace "circular build dependency between kdebase-workspace and kde4bindings, broken on lpia and hppa" [High,Triaged]
<Hobbsee> note to self:  check for bugs first
 * ogra isnt sure that haigh :)
<ogra> *high
<ogra> lpia might be a dying arch 
<Hobbsee> ogra: that's true.  I've still no idea why it didn't hit the other arches, though
<theseinfeld> ogra why is lpia a dying arch?
<ogra> theseinfeld, we'll discuss if we want to go on keeping it at UDS ... the achievemnts are probably not big enough to justify the work we have to put in to maintin a complete separate arch for it 
<theseinfeld> UDS as in Sevilla?
<Hobbsee> Googleplex in California, actually
<Hobbsee> sevilla was a year and a half ago
<ogra> right, UDS as in ubuntu developer sumit at google next month :)
<theseinfeld> Google Inc., Crittenden Campus, 1400 Crittenden Lane, Mountain View, CA 94043 
<theseinfeld> ok
<theseinfeld> That will be in 2 weeks?
<theseinfeld> Monday 8th - Friday 12th December 2008 
<ogra> right
<ogra> we'll review lpia there and decide if its worth keeping it ...
 * theseinfeld fears...
<lool> Hobbsee: KDE stuff was all pain in jaunty as well
<lool> FTBFSed all over the place
<lool> Yeah Riddell in holidays til UDS or so
<Hobbsee> lool: I can see that.  Looks like 4.2 is fixing a lot fo it
<lool> Hobbsee: It is; I poked kubuntu-dev people about it
<lool> I wanted to help, but the .73 tarballs are only downloadable by official packagers...
<Hobbsee> oh, they're on ktown?
<lool> There's an intrepid-backports of .3 which does build
 * Hobbsee probably still has an account for that, come to think of it...
<lool> Hobbsee: On ftp.kde.org they are group "packager"
<lool> and 660 or so
<ogra> theseinfeld, why do you fear ? it really doesnt gain you much above the x86 arch
<Hobbsee> ah, right
<lool> Hobbsee: Anyway, they are prepared now
<lool> So jaunty is being fixed
<Hobbsee> cool
<lool> One can note that intrepid's version ftbfs which is bad
<ogra> s/why/what/
<lool> As you pointed out, there's a bdep loop too
<lool> Hobbsee: Do you think we can do anything about it for intrepid/lpia?
<Hobbsee> lool: depends if 4.2 gets pushed to -updates.
<lool> I wouldn't expect so
<Hobbsee> lool: there's an existing bug on it, so perhaps they'll SRU 4.1.3 (again?)
<lool> Perhaps we could push 4.1.3 to updates though instead of the weird backports only version
<Hobbsee> rgreening's not around to ask
<Hobbsee> the 4.1.3 bit is broken too, no?
<Hobbsee> on lpia?
<lool> Yeah, but at least it doesn't FTBFS
<lool> On arches where python-kde4 / plasma are installed
<lool> Oh 4.1.3 is on proposed as well
 * ogra remembers the mojo people moaning a lot about kde building 
<lool> kdebase-workspace | 4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1 | intrepid-proposed | source, all
<lool> failed to build everywhere *sigh*
<Hobbsee> all of those seem to have the circular build-deps.
<lool> and same for kde4bindings *double-sigh*
<Hobbsee> although I've got no idea why amd64/i386 built on the ppa
<Hobbsee> the circular build deps are only resolved in the 4.2 packages
<Hobbsee> so we either take 4.2, or sru it again
<lool> Hobbsee: Was this a packaging mistake?
<Hobbsee> lool: likely.
<Hobbsee> although, from the bug, it seems that it's an upstream kde mistake as well
<Hobbsee> it's probably worth making sure that those bindings don't get from proposed to updates, too.
<Hobbsee> although I guess it can be SRU'd, and SRUd again
<lool> I wonder why kdebase-workspace only failed to build on armel
<lool> libplasma3 4:4.1.73-0ubuntu7 versus 8, but probably not the issue
<ogra> are all build deps up to date ? 
<lool> kdelibs5 as well
<lool> ogra: usually newer on armel than on i386
<ogra> what about kde4libs ? 
<ogra> ah, kde4bindings is dep-wait 
<ogra> that might have something to do with it
<lool> I don't understand why there's so much difference in boost stuff
<lool> THe *i386* build has ImportError: No module named distutils.sysconfig
<lool> Perhaps the armel build pulls more stuff
<lool> Or it's just a type conversion error in kdebase-workspace :)
<Do1> trying to get some help with syncing a motorola Q,  I can see the phone, I can get records from Evolution, but can not Browse the phone nor get it to sync. using ubuntu 8.10 and synce  0.12 all installed as packages.
<Do1> The moto Q is a Windows Mobile 5 device
<theseinfeld> back...
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-11-29
<corden> hello guys
<corden> its posible to install ubuntu mid on vbox?
<corden> i've tried it but i failed
<corden> i mean virtual box
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-11-30
<FreeSoul> hi guys!
<FreeSoul> anyway can tell me the compatibility with a Benq MID S6?
<FreeSoul> does ubuntu-mobile has drivers for the marvel wifi card?
<s0u][ight> hello i know this isn't the right place but i have a project idea (don't want to talk about it yet) and i need a about 7" touchscreen display for it what would you recommend me?
<FreeSoul> s0u][ight: i'm a guest here but your questions has no answer. What do you need? a 7" toichscreen means nothing in terms of architecture, os, requirements and so on. As you formalized the questions a 7" can be a little table to hold a cup fo tea :D
<s0u][ight> FreeSoul, i'm going to build an 'own' device which will have a touchscreen (hopefully mutlitouch support)
<FreeSoul> much better
<FreeSoul> so what is the question?
<s0u][ight> i'm looking for a touchscreen of about 7" that could become a component of my device
<FreeSoul> so you need a touchscreen wich is supported by linux? or what else? I mean, there are a lot of touchscreen brands and model 
<s0u][ight> yeah that's my problem there is so much hardware
<FreeSoul> oh, ok :)
<s0u][ight> and yes support for linux would be amazing
<FreeSoul> I think you need to talk with hardware maker to decide with best fit your needs. I mean, you need to be sure that it work with the operative system your plan to use and also specifications can very a lot (it makes also change the price too)
<FreeSoul> it depends on the specification you need... just an example. if you want it readable also under the sun it gotta be done in a certain way and so on
<s0u][ight> i understand
<FreeSoul> you need to talk with hardware maker and I suppose (but i'm a guest as you are) that this is the wrong place
<s0u][ight> it should be something like the iphone one
<s0u][ight> but 7"
<s0u][ight> or maybe 9
<FreeSoul> s0u][ight: i've never been in your situation but I would suggest to find out all touchscreen producers... 
<FreeSoul> and tell them the application you need it to
<s0u][ight> FreeSoul, i don't have a patent yet
<FreeSoul> s0u][ight: it's not a problem
<FreeSoul> just tell them the contitions
<FreeSoul> and your needs
<FreeSoul> and if you are developing a nettablet let me know :D
<s0u][ight> no nettablet :P
<FreeSoul> :) what a pity!
<s0u][ight> actually a hint: it should give the idea of not being some piece of electronics
<FreeSoul> a robot under the skin of an animal :)
<s0u][ight> touchscreen on an animal lol
<FreeSoul> :)
<s0u][ight> actually if this product becomes succesfull it will be one of the few ones helping mother nature
<FreeSoul> you know animals are hairy :)
<FreeSoul> uhmmm.... i suspect you are no gonna replace flowers in a garden with little touchscreen displays showing flowers and blowing wind :)
<s0u][ight> loool i love the fantasy of human beings 
<s0u][ight> something real easy
<FreeSoul> :)
<s0u][ight> btw our nicks look quiet the same :|
<FreeSoul> s0u][ight: i just hope it runs son wversion of IP and TCP or other network protocol.... otherwise I doubt I'll buy it
<FreeSoul> something like that :D
<s0u][ight> FreeSoul, don't know if you will buy it but the request for is actually there allready
<s0u][ight> people just don't see it
<FreeSoul> interesting :) but i need a network stack to feel happy :)
<FreeSoul> at least... bye
<playya> http://www.pictureupload.de/originals/pictures/301108144305_Schaf3.jpg <-- this might be the device <s0u][ight> wants to build
<FreeSoul> ahiaiuahahahahahahaiuauau great work playya
<playya> thx
<FreeSoul> i just hope he will not build all the rest looking for hardware without talking to hardware makers....
<FreeSoul> because it gotta quite hard to develope a sheep :)
<FreeSoul> hey wait, is that touchscreen iPhone like??
<playya> no not really
<FreeSoul> damn, can't be the right one!
<FreeSoul> ok i accept that just because it's a prototype :D
<playya> should i replace it by an iphone?
<FreeSoul> uhmmm
<FreeSoul> some times ago i read about a giant iPhone screen, :)
<FreeSoul> try with taht
<playya> and a horse
<playya> then you can have a beer picknick with your friends
<FreeSoul> uhmmm sounds a good idea :)
<FreeSoul> better then the sheep
<playya> but it has to be a shetland pony
<playya> normal horses are to big
<FreeSoul> well... it may depends on how many friends you want to drink with :)
<Meiz_n810> Hi!
<Meiz_n810> What is the command to start ubuntu-mobile on interpid? =P
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-11-23
<imagitronics> Is there any way to intentionally enable the quick resolution changer in the notification area?
<asac> lool: found a mail about (un-) subscribing to workitems.py ... where is that?
<Guest95233> hi guys i am looking for unlocking nokia 1208 can any one help with me any tool or website
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-11-24
<rbelem> ping persia
<vigneswari> how to cross compile the latest kernel for lpia?
<amitk> vigneswari: lpia doesn't need cross-compiling
<amitk> it is in essence an x86 arch
<vigneswari> amitk, but i couldnt compile that in i386..it shows some architecture issue
<vigneswari> amitk, debian/ruleset/misc/checks.mk:36: *** Error. I do not know where the kernel image goes to [kimagedest undefined] The usual case for this is that I could not determine which arch or subarch this machine belongs to. Please specify a subarch, and try again..  Stop.
<vigneswari> amitk, this is the error
<amitk> lpia is dead for the next cycle. What are you trying to do?
<vigneswari> amitk, i am trying to install latest kernel to my old version
<amitk> karmic?
<amitk> vigneswari: you can compile it in the karmic chroot.
<vigneswari> amitk, when compiling only i am getting this error..but not in karmic..
<vigneswari> amitk, i have hardy in my system
<vigneswari> in that i tried
<amitk> aah, hardy
<amitk> you still have to create a hardy lpia chroot (see debootstrap) and compile the kernel inside it.
<vigneswari> amitk, i created chroot environment and tried there only
<vigneswari> make-kpkg --arch i386 --subarch lpia --cross-compile i686-linux-gnulp --initrd  kernel_image kernel_headers
<vigneswari> and i used this command
<amitk> vigneswari: we don't support the make-kpkg command
<amitk> try 'fakeroot debian/rules binary-lpia'
<vigneswari> amitk, ok
<vigneswari> amitk, again the same error
<amitk> what does dpkg-architecture return?
<vigneswari> DEB_BUILD_ARCH=lpia DEB_BUILD_ARCH_OS=linux DEB_BUILD_ARCH_CPU=i686 DEB_BUILD_GNU_CPU=i686 DEB_BUILD_GNU_SYSTEM=linux-gnulp DEB_BUILD_GNU_TYPE=i686-linux-gnulp DEB_HOST_ARCH=lpia DEB_HOST_ARCH_OS=linux DEB_HOST_ARCH_CPU=i686 DEB_HOST_GNU_CPU=i686 DEB_HOST_GNU_SYSTEM=linux-gnulp DEB_HOST_GNU_TYPE=i686-linux-gnulp
<vigneswari> amitk, 
<amitk> so you are trying to compile a karmic kernel in a hardy chroot?
<vigneswari> amitk, kernel i have taken from kernel.org...its not a ubuntu source
<amitk> vigneswari: in that case, where did you get the debian/ dir from?
<vigneswari> amitk, its created by itself
<vigneswari> amitk, it was not there when i extracted that...but when i run make-kpkg it was created but compilation ffailed
<amitk> vigneswari: get rid of the dir. and build the kernel the regular way using make menuconfig; make
<vigneswari> amitk, how i ll get debs
<amitk> vigneswari: if you want .debs, use the ubuntu mainline kernel builds (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/MainlineBuilds?action=show&redirect=KernelMainlineBuilds)
<amitk> we won't support make-kpkg
<vigneswari> ok
<Hbb> Hi, I can't install ubuntu-9.10-netbook-remix-i386.iso on a Eee PC 1005HA. It boots from USB.  The Disk Integrity Check on the machine is good. I can choose install, the USB Stick leds flackers about 10 seconds and then constantly burns. 
<Hbb> After 5 minutes the screen is still black without any signs. Working in Live-Mode has same result.
<Hbb> USB stick was made bootable with usb-creator.exe from the downloaded ISO. What shall I try next?
<Hbb> Was something said to my netbook issue?
<persia> Hbb: Not that I noticed.
<Hbb> persia: Success with "If you just get a black screen when booting from USB, using the setting "Discarded on shutdown, unless you save them elsewhere" in usb-creator might help. http://forum.eeeuser.com/viewtopic.php?pid=658619 "
<Hbb> !seen Elzix
<ubottu> I have no seen command
<Hbb> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/FromUSBStick?action=diff&rev2=164&rev1=163
<kung> hi
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-11-25
<asac> bug 488162
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 488162 in ubuntu "Sync edbus 0.5.0.062-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/488162
<ogra> "e"dbus ? 
<ogra> ah, efl
<JamieBennett> Also need a sync of efreet - bug 488217 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 488217 in ubuntu "Sync efreet 0.5.0.062-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/488217
<rgreening> NCommander: ping
<rgreening> NCommander: What can I do with my Archos5 Internet Tablet.. something Ubuntu'ish...
<rgreening> NCommander: it's an ARM Cortex A/8 or something...
<rgreening> persia: ^ I found this at the Airport on the way home from UDS... :) 
 * rgreening is so impulsive
<dmart> NCommander: did you get anywhere with your dove toolchain issue?
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-11-26
<asac> dyfet```: there? ... do you know any decent sip/voip app that supports pulseaudio natively?
<rgreening> NCommander: ping
<JamieBennett> rgreening: Its thanksgiving in the US and I believe that NCommander is on vacation.
<rgreening> oh right, he has a very sick friend he went to see... I forgot...
<rgreening> JamieBennett: I have an Archos5 IT, and was wondering about testing Linux on it (it has an ARM Coretex A/8 I believe...
<JamieBennett> rgreening: good luck :)
<rgreening> heh
<rbelem> persia: pig
<rbelem> ops
<rbelem> ping
<rbelem> :-D
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-11-27
<dmart> Hi all ... can anyone update me on the new builds on the Dove platform?  NCommander was having a GCC internal error problem a few days ago...
<ogra> he didnt expand on that and i dont think he actually looked into it 
<ogra> he went on a long thanksgiving weekend
<ogra> so no new info (from him at least) before monday
<dmart> Since we don't have one of those boards here right now, I was wondering if one could be set up for remote access?  It could be useful if the bug proves to be stubborn.
<Shirase> hi everybody
<Shirase> could I install ubuntu in the lg viewty?
<yigal> has anyone here succesfully gotten a "usb" touch screen to work
<yigal> I'm attempting to get a t91mt's touchscreen working
<yigal> I found that unlike the t91 where hal picks the screen up as evtouch the multitouch touch screen appears as a usb device
<yigal> I've loaded usbtouchscreen
<b0b3> plz go 2                    http:// sites.google.com/site/howtowinafight               & click on ads ;        thank you
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-11-28
<jurisz> hi! I am going to create presentation in English. is this correct title for presentation? "Mobile phone development and future prospects" or it "Mobile phones development and future prospects". phone or phones? thanks!
