#ubuntu-uk 2011-08-29
<HazRPG> anyone here heard about the latest vulnerability found for apache?
<penguin42> no?
<HazRPG> hmm, anyone awake?
<Azelphur> yep
<HazRPG> got a bash script question, I want to end my script by running a command, and then issuing "exit"... even if the command is still doing something, I want the script to end but let the command run nicely in the background
<Azelphur> use &&?
<HazRPG> ah, heh didn't think of that
<Azelphur> :)
<HazRPG> nope... that doesn't quite work
<HazRPG> still got the debug stuff of the other command flowing through
<ali1234> use exec
<HazRPG> ali1234: you mean: exec `command` && exit 1
<HazRPG> ?*
<HazRPG> would that work?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> exec runs a program without making a new process
<ali1234> ie it exits the shell
<HazRPG> hmm its not doing that
<HazRPG> this is the command I want to run and then exit: google-chrome ${OPTS_USER_DIR}${P_BLANK}
<HazRPG> obviously with those parameters defined elsewhere in the script
<HazRPG> running that in with "exec " in front of it, isn't closing the script
<HazRPG> however if I do that in the terminal by itself (not in a script file) it does
<HazRPG> if it helps, its getting run from inside of an if statement
<MartijnVdS> \o
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: o/
<HazRPG> ali1234: hmm, I think its because of the fullscreen hack
<Earthling> :-)
<Earthling> Morning friends and trolls
<harry_> i got the error msg when i fire "make" command in the directory which has the whitespace in the directory name..??
<BigRedS> harry_: what does the error message say?
<BigRedS> I'm not in front of my PC much today, but nobody else'll be able to help you either without that bit of info :)
<harry_> *** No rule to make target `h/harry/harry12/LoadKernalObject/EventDriverModule'......
<harry_> but the actual path is $ /Desktop/h h/PolyVision/PolyVisionDriver/LoadKernalObject/EventDriverModule
<BigRedS> ah. The obvious fix would be to rename that 'h h' directory, else I'm afraid you'll have to fix the makefile yourself, or get the maintainer of it to
<harry_> BigReds: remove the 'h h' thats just a demo..i want to work the 'makefile' perfectlly well in case of if user pass the dir name with the whitespace in it..
<HazRPG> you know you've been awake too long when red bull is the key ingredient to the day
<HazRPG> (or rather morning?)
<HazRPG> Morning Earthling, how art thou?
<HazRPG> harry_: erm... I don't do much makefile stuff, but well shouldn't it just be encapsulated inside of quotes?
<harry_> ok
<GreenDance> Hi
<GreenDance> does the ubuntu cd have a rescue mode?
<HazRPG> GreenDance: I think it does, not entirely sure though
<GreenDance> HazRPG, what it is, is, I have received an old computer with an old linux distro installed but it's missing it's bootloader, so I'm just trying to find out how to go about reinstalling the bootloader
<daubers> Morning
<GreenDance> Morning daubers
<GreenDance> daubers, by any chance do you know how to reinstall a missing bootloader (lilo)
<dwatkins> !lilo
<lubotu3> lilo is an alternative [Li]nux Boot[Lo]ader. Note: it is recommended that you use GRUB on Ubuntu instead.
<dwatkins> oh, I was hoping it would provide a link to the documentation on reinstalling lilo, sorry GreenDance
<GreenDance> dwatkins, np :)
<dwatkins> GreenDance: you should be able to boot from the installation medium (to have the same version of lilo available) and then reinstate it with a lilo command, the option escapes, me but I imagine it's listed in the documentation
<dwatkins> you may need to chroot at the same time
<GreenDance> dwatkins, thanks ill give that a try
<dwatkins> your mileage may vary, backup everything beforehand, and be aware there may be unrecognised other operating systems etc.etc.
 * dwatkins finally found the tune which was going around in his head all week by putting Chicane's discography on a playlist on from youtube (Chicane - Overlap) :D
 * daubers had forgotten lilo existed
<daubers> Do people still use it?
<dwatkins> me too, daubers
<dwatkins> I guess it's the default on old distros
<GreenDance> I think I might have to give up on this :(
 * daubers goes brambling
<MartijnVdS> daubers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIcJTsGePBE
<GreenDance> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjCLQaTFXx0 :)
 * GreenDance dancing
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<dwatkins> shame GreenDance left - I was about to link to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lk5_OSsawz4 :D
<dwatkins> "...kiss a Wookie, kick a droid..." etc.
<oimon_web> no irc client on touchpad ...boo. Took me 5 attempts to get the captcha right for the Web client
<brobostigon> :(
<oimon_web> need to catch up with directhex to find out how his debian chroot is getting on
<directhex> oimon, wirc works on touchpad.
<directhex> oimon, also, http://twitpic.com/6ct48e
<oimon_web> woah dude, got a link to the howto?
<directhex> got preware?
<oimon_web> not yet, need to do it via my work pc tomorrow lunch
<directhex> basically, the first thing you need is an ext3 partition. to create one, you use "meta doctor", which is a tool which takes hp's webos doctor reimaging tool, and modifies it to create a custom version with superpowers
<directhex> in this case, there's a space in the makefile where you can set the size of the ext3 partition
<directhex> once you reimage using your custom doctor, install preware, enable the testing feeds, install xecutah, edit /etc/fstab to mount your ext3 partition on boot, mount it, and finally install debian or ubuntu from preware
<directhex> that'll bootstrap into your ext3 partition, and add a link in xecutah which opens an xterm inside your chroot
<directhex> from there... apt-get whatevs
<oimon_web> performance ok?
<directhex> better than my efikamx
<penguin42> the only problem with having a week and a bit off is the frightening thought that I'm going to have to wake up 4 hours earlier tomorrow
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/677151/ argh. dpkg is broken, any ideas what to do?
<AlanBell> /usr/lib/grub does not exist
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: Do you know why this error happened? .: 97: Can't open /usr/lib/grub/grub-mkconfig_lib
<penguin42> hmm - that file doesn't exist on my machine that has a newer install and thus never had Grub1 on
<penguin42> it is on my old machine that still has Grub1
<AlanBell> it exists on my laptop
<AlanBell> which is running Natty
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's on mine (10.10)
<AlanBell> can I just copy from one machine running 64 bit natty to another I wonder
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: It's a bash script
<AlanBell> yeah, but there is other  stuff in /usr/lib/grub that is probably important
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ahh - the dir doesn't exist?
<AlanBell> indeed
<AlanBell> I copied it over, but have to pop out for a bit now, will test later
<GreenDance> hey
<GreenDance> is it possible to customise the ubuntu installer?
<directhex> GreenDance, sure. which one? there are two ubuntu installers
<GreenDance> directhex, which one is which please?
<directhex> debian-installer does the text-mode installer (server & alternate & netinstall CDs)
<directhex> oh, i guess there are three, thinking about it
<GreenDance> I'm thinking of the graphical one
<directhex> wubi is the Windows-based installer, if you run it from inside windows
<GreenDance> the graphical one from the live cd
<directhex> Ubiquity, then.
<directhex> that one's called Ubiquity
<directhex> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomization
<GreenDance> thank you directhex
<GreenDance> :)
<brobostigon> is there a FB message client for android, that manages those messages, ie, replying etc, without having to go to the website?
<brobostigon> and unlike FB's own app, isnt dead slow, and prone to malfunction.
<dwatkins> brobostigon: you should be able to configure a jabber client for facebook
<dwatkins> There's also Fring, but I havn't used that in a while.
<brobostigon> dwatkins: however wont that only work for FB chat, and not Fb messages?
<dwatkins> oh sorry, I see what you mean - can't you use the official FB app for those?
<brobostigon> dwatkins: i am finding it somewhat slow and unstable, so looking for an alernative.
<dwatkins> I think it's just using the browser, so that's understandable.
<brobostigon> it keeps it all in app, it doesnt open the browser, at any time.
<Westerham> Hello. Trying to see if anyone can shed light on the account login on my Ubuntu machine being really slow - you have to keep each key for the password depressed for sometime. I've posted a boot extract at http://paste.ubuntu.com/671690/
<ikonia-remote> Westerham: are you logging into the gui locally ?
<Westerham> Yes, on the same PC.
<ikonia-remote> what video card do you have ?
<livingdaylight> Having trouble installing Brother DCP-167 printer on Ubuntu 11.04 64-bit. Anyone have experience with this?
<livingdaylight> I seem to have met all 64-bit requirements
<livingdaylight> Anyone can tell me what dpkg  -i  --force-all does?
<ikonia-remote> it forces the install
<ikonia-remote> livingdaylight: why do you need to force it ? what's the error
<livingdaylight> is that a way of installing a 32-bit deb file on a 64-bit machine?
<ikonia-remote> you don't want to do that
<livingdaylight> sudo dpkg -i dcp167ccupswrapper-1.1.2-2.i386.deb
<livingdaylight> package architecture (i386) does not match system (amd64)
<ikonia-remote> no, it won't, as you're running 64bit and that package is 32bit
<livingdaylight> http://welcome.solutions.brother.com/bsc/public_s/id/linux/en/instruction_prn3.html
<ikonia-remote> that just tells you to install the 32bit libs
<ikonia-remote> which I assume you've installed
<Westerham> Think its an nVidia MPC61 - will check though.
<ikonia-remote> livingdaylight: then it tells you to foce the 32bit package to install.
<ikonia-remote> have you followed what that guide says ?
<livingdaylight> ikonia, yes, which I'm told is not a good idea
<livingdaylight> yes, except for the forcing bit
<ikonia-remote> livingdaylight: in my view it's not, however you don't really have a choice
<ikonia-remote> livingdaylight: you have a choice of using the 32bit driver, or not using your printer
<livingdaylight> the 32-bit driver only has a chance of working if I force it. Forcing something never sounds like a good idea. In a computing context I don't know what the ramifications could be
<ikonia-remote> no ramifications,
<ikonia-remote> it will either work as a software product or not, which as this is from a main vendors such as Brother, it should work.
<ikonia-remote> it's an official package, with official instructions, you can trust brother and hope your printer works, or not use your printer. Your call
<livingdaylight> ok, thank you
<MartijnVdS> Printer manufacturers should stop providing software, and work with distros to get stuff packaged and distributed properly
<livingdaylight> MartijnVdS, yes
<ikonia-remote> MartijnVdS: no they shouldn't
<livingdaylight> Ubuntu has been around long enough, and Brother are a big enough company. Given they provide some support why not go the whole way and provide up to date drivers for both 32 AND 64 bit ?
<ikonia-remote> MartijnVdS: it's not realistic/practical
<ikonia-remote> livingdaylight: maybe the drivers don't work in 64bit.....ever thought about tha t?
<Westerham> Just confirmed graphics card is ATI Radeon HD 4550 512MB
<ikonia-remote> Westerham: have you configured the correct graphics config for this card, sometimes visual lag is not actually real lag and just the graphics card mis-configured
<MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: Then you can expect 600MB printer drivers, like on Windows
<ikonia-remote> MartijnVdS: what ?
<MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: never had an HP printer in Windows?
<MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: If you're lucky, it comes with 3 JVMs and is 600MB
<ikonia-remote> MartijnVdS: yes, but how has the size of the driver got to do with being package for inclusion in a distro ?
<MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: hardware manufacturers are VERY bad at writing drivers.
<ikonia-remote> MartijnVdS: what ?
<ikonia-remote> MartijnVdS: they are the people who makes the hardware.....they are the best people at writing the drivers for them
<MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: except they don't know anything about the framework(s) they're programming for -- CUPS, the kernel, etc.
<ikonia-remote> more so when most of the products are closed source, so they are the only people who can write teh drivers
<ikonia-remote> MartijnVdS: you talk an amazing ammount of nonsense
<ikonia-remote> people like HP are VERY aware of cups and the kernel
<MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: so they give you a blob that works for them.. and say "We support Linux! [X] Check"
<ikonia-remote> MartijnVdS: no they don't
<MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: HP, yes. And wifi chipset devs are improving
<ikonia-remote> MartijnVdS: do you have any idea of what you're saying or any factual information to back up what yo uare saying
<ikonia-remote> HP wifi chipsets are improving.
<MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: Check the staging/ part of the kernel to see what I mean
<ikonia-remote> they don't make a chipset
<MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: HP + Linux is fine, I know
<ikonia-remote> and HP labs where the people who made wireless-tools
<MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: But other manufacturers tend to be bad.
<ikonia-remote> MartijnVdS: no they don't
<ikonia-remote> MartijnVdS: please give me an example
<MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: rt2x00
<ikonia-remote_> sorry, my stupid web connection dropped
<ikonia-remote_> didn't get your last message
<MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: rt2x00
<MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: most DVB hardware, too
<ikonia-remote_> MartijnVdS: errrr no
<ikonia-remote_> MartijnVdS: please show me a DVB hardware provider that has Linux support that doesn't actually work or has "bad" drivers as you call them
<MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote_: twinhan
<ikonia-remote_> MartijnVdS: so that says it supports linux but doesn't ?
<MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote_: Well the linux-dvb community seems very separated from the "mainline" kernel people
<ikonia-remote_> no, that's not what I asked
<MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote_: and bugs don't get fixed for long times.
<ikonia-remote_> http://linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/TwinHan
<ikonia-remote_> according to this only 2 devices are supported
<ikonia-remote> in fact they appear to have removed Linux as a list of supported platforms
<MartijnVdS> even worse, imho :)
<ikonia-remote> not really
<ikonia-remote> a company doesn't have to support Linux, in a lot of places it's not a worthwhle investment to do so, more so for rolling distros like ubuntu
<MartijnVdS> Sure
<MartijnVdS> But if they do, they should do it right or help other people do it right
<ikonia-remote> MartijnVdS: name me one that doesn't do it right ?
<MartijnVdS> because bad drivers are worse than no drivers, imho
<MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: like I said, since staging/ the kernel drivers are improving
<ikonia-remote> MartijnVdS: name me one that doesn't do it right
<MartijnVdS> nvidia ;)
<ikonia-remote> MartijnVdS: nvidia do it fine, it's a closed source product
<ikonia-remote> I don't agree it's a good solution, but it's actually one of the best closed source compatible options
<ikonia-remote> MartijnVdS: you're making these wild statements but not really providing anything to back it up
<ikonia-remote> copmanies should stop making bad driver............"who".............errrrrrrrr everyone
<MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: When I go buy a printer, I have to have my phone with me to check linuxprinting to see if it'll work properly.
<ikonia-remote> MartijnVdS: that's not anything to do with bad drivers, that's general linux support
<MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: and I don't want to download untrusted(!) code from some random website (printer manufacturer) for it to work
<ikonia-remote> ha ha ha ha ha
<ikonia-remote> untrusted from the manufactures website
<MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: if it's not signed, it's untrusted.
<ikonia-remote> MartijnVdS: please stop talking nonsense
<MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: Please stop talking.
<ikonia-remote> MartijnVdS: so that means you don't use any external repos or PPA's?
<ikonia-remote> or no software that is not in the ubuntu repos
<ikonia-remote> do you use flash ?
<ikonia-remote> MartijnVdS: so to confirm you only use software that is hosted within the ubuntu repos ?
<ikonia-remote> oh dear, how dissapointed, your statments don't make sense so you've gone on mute.
<MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: You could try to be less argumentative about it, you know. Or help me make my point in a more constructive way and not shout me down at every opportunity.
<ikonia-remote> MartijnVdS: then don't make bad statments as fact
<MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: or, you know, provide proof for your own statements too
<ikonia-remote> MartijnVdS: what would you like proof of
<ikonia-remote> MartijnVdS: I can't help you make your point......because it's wrong, which is why I was discussing it with you.
<MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: There you go again. "Inaccurate" doesn't have to mean "bad". I don't mean to insult anyone. I'm trying to describe how I feel I have to use things and what I do (and don't) like about it.
<ikonia-remote> MartijnVdS: if you're making statements such as "vedors write bad drivers" or "software outside the repos" to people - that is wrong and missleading people, it's "bad"
<MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: OK, I should have worded that differently then.
<ikonia-remote> in an ideal world everything would be open and distro maintainers could incorperate the packages they want, however, it's not. So you have to work with the situation
<MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: To answer your questions --  I use as little software from outside the main repo as possible.
<ikonia-remote> MartijnVdS: ok - so then you use unstrusted software by your own statement
<MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: If we don't describe the perfect situation, we don't know what to work towards :)
<ikonia-remote> MartijnVdS: you're not describing the perfect situation, you're just saying people make bad software
<MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: No, those repositories are signed by keys I trust
<ikonia-remote> MartijnVdS: oh.....so how is a key you trust different from a website you trust
<MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: I can spoof DNS. I can't spoof a PGP signature.
<ikonia-remote> oh really......come on
<ikonia-remote> in that case, I don't trust ubuntu developers......I don't trust my ISP, I don't trust your machine has not been compromised and your keys changed
<MartijnVdS> I think you're paranoid :)
<ikonia-remote> we can go to that level if you want, or we can live in a realistic position
<MartijnVdS> Time to go home.
<ikonia-remote> how dissapointing
<MartijnVdS> now you have to find another IRC punching bag? :P
<ikonia-remote> not at all, it's a valid conversation
<ikonia-remote> I wasn't trying to punch you, however you seem to come out with a lot of your views as "fact"
<directhex> he's right, though
<directhex> take a look at Canon's drivers for high-end ten grand printers
<directhex> they were subcontracted to a teenager in Lyon. they only work on i386 with 2.2 kernel
<ikonia-remote> I don't think he is "right",
<ikonia-remote> if thats the documented support.......then that's the support
<directhex> hardware vendors are often spectacularly bad at software engineering. when they keep stuff closed and unredistributable, there is no hope for fixing it
<ikonia-remote> I don't agree with it, I don't buy cannon and brother for similar reasons
<ikonia-remote> directhex: that's the point, it's closed, so what can you do ?
<directhex> btw, the brother printer driver does sorta work. but the scanner driver will hose your install
<ikonia-remote> the vendors are trying to write software for mulitple different distributions with different product versions (especially the rolling ones) they can either work within their limitations, or open the platform....which they won't do
<directhex> at least you can print on tuesdays now on brother printers. that used to be broken :)
<ikonia-remote> if distributions centralised their activities to few more supported distros you may see a change
<ikonia-remote> doubtful, but possible
<directhex> ikonia-remote, it's a distribution issue though - given Mac OS X uses CUPS (and apple bought the CUPS project), most mac printers are simple PPD files that work fine on ubuntu, whereas the linux downloads are often defective
<directhex> there's the rule o' thumb: use mac drivers on linux, not linux drivers (!)
<ikonia-remote> now that is an interesting point
<ikonia-remote> is there a compatability list for the mac printer support (googling)
<ikonia-remote> what the devil is an Apple printer ?
<ikonia-remote> apple make their own printers ?
<AlanBell> yes
<ikonia-remote> I've never seen one
<AlanBell> or they used to do so
<ikonia-remote> massive brother and cannon support, directhex are you saying that's all in cups ?
<directhex> ikonia-remote, some of it.
<ikonia-remote> AlanBell: surprising ammount of legacy apple printers in mac os 10.6
<directhex> now, here's how brother work it
<ikonia-remote> directhex: ahhhh some of it,
<directhex> it's "just" cups, but their cups ppd specifies to pass data through a filter
<directhex> that filter is an i386 executable
<directhex> so you can't use the brother ppd without the i386-only executable
<directhex> short version: no printing on ARM gear
<ikonia-remote> interesitng,
<directhex> related note: need to configure my printer on my touchpad
<AlanBell> printing through qemu :)
<ikonia-remote> I wonder if that factor is one of the limiting reasons the ipad/iphone has limited HP printer support
<AlanBell> dunno why printers don't just do postscript, end of story.
<directhex> AlanBell, cheaper to use the host cpu than add a cpu to the printer
<directhex> nothing to config. it autodetected the printer, i can just print from printer dialogs
<ikonia-remote> directhex: is that from the tablet ?
<directhex> yeah
<ikonia-remote> directhex: to what printer ?
<directhex> an hp inkjet w/ wifi
<ikonia-remote> directhex: that's cool, I've got a reasonable HP inkjet (C8100-something) and neither my ipad or iphone can printer to it over the wireless network or bluetooth
<directhex> i need to buy a dongle for bluetooth on it
<directhex> cba
<ikonia-remote> there is a list of these HP cloud printing printers that the iphone/ipad support.....other than that, you can't print. Which is poor show
<ikonia-remote> airprint - that's what it's called
<ikonia-remote> couldn't remember
<ikonia-remote> thought about upgrading my printer based on some of the conversations in here, the HP 8500 pro deskjet seems a reasonable device, however there appears to be many models called the HP  8500 pro desktop with a Â£150 price difference from Â£140 to Â£299......seems a bit mental as there isn't good details as to what is different beyond wireless/not wireless networking
<HazRPG> \o I'm awake honest o.O
<HazRPG> *runs to grab a either a blank CD or DVD lying around*
<daubers> Afternoon
 * daubers has made jam
<MartijnVdS> is it good jam?
<GreenDance> Hi
<GreenDance> when a release of ubuntu reaches eol, does that mean it's cut-off from updates
<GreenDance> meaning an upgrade is needed
<GreenDance> I was wondering, is the sudo in ubuntu the same as the sudo in debian?
<brobostigon> i believe so, yes.
<GreenDance> brobostigon
<GreenDance> brobostigon, if the gui is removed from ubuntu desktop distro, does that make the cli install the same as ubuntu server?
<AlanBell> nope
<brobostigon> GreenDance: good question, no idea.
<AlanBell> different kernel amongst other things
<brobostigon> :)
<GreenDance> AlanBell, ubuntu server stronger than ubuntu desktop?
<AlanBell> err, not sure what that means
<GreenDance> AlanBell, ubuntu server more secure than ubuntu desktop *
<GreenDance> ?
<AlanBell> no
<GreenDance> but different kernels?
<AlanBell> optimised differently
<GreenDance> AlanBell, ok, so if you install gnome on ubuntu server, would it preform better than ubuntu desktop distro?
<AlanBell> no
 * GreenDance scratches his head
<AlanBell> you would be unlikely to notice the difference, but the server is optimised for server type workloads and the desktop kernel is optimised for desktop type workloads
<GreenDance> Ah!
<GreenDance> right
<GreenDance> got-cha :)
<GreenDance> so ubuntu is better than debian :D
<brobostigon> dpends on your preference.
<brobostigon> each is designed for different applications.
<brobostigon> i am on my eeepc right now, so i use debian, it is lighter in certain ways than ubuntu, and less resource heavy in certain ways.
<GreenDance> :)
 * daubers has pondered just running ubuntu server on his eeepc
<daubers> as I tend to boot it, load a terminal and then do everything in vim
<GreenDance> brobostigon, which window manager do you use?
<brobostigon> GreenDance: mutter.
<Earthling> Bored
<brobostigon> eeek. logged into irc as root, bad idea Earthling.
<Earthling> Im old school
<GreenDance> playing with the new ubuntu, i'm not one for the unity, i prefer the standard d/e
<Earthling> Hack of and I would pay a thousand
<Earthling> Me
<Earthling> Ah I love stroking my route
<Earthling> How many bounces tonight sir?
<GreenDance> is it just me or is it that unity looks like osx?
<Earthling> Unity is a sack of cow pat
<Earthling> Osx looks like unity though
<GreenDance> AlanBell, can anyone watch tonights meeting?
<brobostigon> Earthling: old school has nothing to do with it, running your irc client as root is just plain stupid, however if you want to take that risk, that is your choice.
<brobostigon> GreenDance: take part in tonights meeting, yes definatly.
<Earthling> Lol oh you are cute
<GreenDance> brobostigon, seriousally? take part
<GreenDance> brobostigon, yes please
<brobostigon> GreenDance: yes, of course. :)
<GreenDance> brobostigon, fantastic :)
 * GreenDance is excited
<brobostigon> GreenDance: it is in #ubuntu-uk-meeting
<Earthling> I am root I am root I am root! So what? Please poke me! You will just get something else.
<suprengr_> Earthling, I remember that recently at least two dictators have boasted themselves indefeatable as well ;D
<Earthling> Be my guest. Like I care. Its just a box. Lol
 * suprengr_ has better things to poke than a box ;)
<MartijnVdS> suprengr_: pokemon!
 * suprengr_ slaps own wrist - reminds self this is a family channel
<suprengr_> MartijnVdS, just seen yours - nice one!
<daubers> Who chaired the last meeting?
<AlanBell> me I think
 * daubers notes the agenda is out of date, and there are no meeting notes for the last one :)
<AlanBell> it was the pre-reapproval one
<AlanBell> gah
 * AlanBell will fix
<daubers> Also, I'm going out with the inlaws this evening so won't be able to make the meeting. My apologies for that
<brobostigon> have fun daubers :)
<AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/MeetingNotes/20110809
<AlanBell> do we have a volunteer to take the chair?
<GreenDance> AlanBell, what would the chair have to do?
<AlanBell> run the bot and keep things moving
 * mgdm takes the chair and runs away with it
<AlanBell> watch one and you can chair the next
<AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/Meeting/Guidelines
<GreenDance> I will watch tonight's to see how the process goes :).
 * TheOpenSourcerer should be around if you need a chair :-)
<AlanBell> done
<daubers> AlanBell: Should probably cover some of the stuff in http://blip.tv/episode/5504447
<ikonia-remote> am I still connected ?
<ikonia-remote> ahh, yes
<AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeamMeetingAgenda please add items
<AlanBell> daubers: cool, glad that is up now :)
 * TheOpenSourcerer points directhex here: http://techcrunch.com/2011/08/29/cyanogenmod-team-gets-android-working-on-hp-touchpad/
<daubers> AlanBell: 2 left I think
<ikonia-remote> TheOpenSourcerer: be interested in seeing the definitinon of "working", reading that now
<ikonia-remote> why the devil do you need lvm support on a touchpad
<daubers> AlanBell: I think the video stuff went quite well for a first run
<AlanBell> yeah, and you did an awesome job on the encoding
<daubers> I think I've sussed how to make it much better next year, including automating the title text if  can get it to connect to campfire manager
<daubers> Would also mean we could stick a monster encoding machine somewhere to just eat the streams and encode as it goes
<daubers> Also, I want to see how powerful gstreamer can really be
 * AlanBell contemplates purchasing http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/280716112085?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
 * penguin42 had expected some super geeky technical item to talk about
<AlanBell> not this time :)
<penguin42> don't drop table;
<penguin42> sorry, best I can do
<AlanBell> good effort ;)
 * daubers goes to the pub
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer: urgh.
<ikonia-remote> directhex: please tell me you wear the holster
 * suprengr turns Ch4+1 to watch Simpsons Halloween Special
<directhex> ikonia-remote: nope. but i remember many years ago seeing mobile phone holsters in pc magazines
<ikonia-remote> directhex: please get one, I want a photo of you wearing one
<zleap> hi
<zleap> where does apt store .deb files
<zleap> hi
<zleap> hi
<MartijnVdS> zleap: in /var/cache/apt
<zleap> synaptic is telling me i need to reinstall the brother printer package dcp310cnlpr but it can't find an archive
<zleap> i have copied the 2 .deb packages to the above location what else should i try and do
<zleap> note nothing now works with synaptic
<zleap> internal error opening cache (1) please report
<MartijnVdS> zleap: open a terminal, and type: dpkg --configure -a, please
<zleap> as root
<zleap> or as sudo
<MartijnVdS> sudo dpkg --configure -a
<zleap> ok
<zleap> i didn't get any errors or messages from that
<MartijnVdS> zleap: ok.. sudo apt-get -f install
<zleap> ok from that i get the message
<MartijnVdS> zleap: please put it in pastebin :)
<zleap> E: the package dcp310cnlpr needs to be reinstalled but i can't find an archive for it
<MartijnVdS> zleap: ok.. do you still have the .deb?
<zleap> yes
<MartijnVdS> zleap: sudo dpkg -i that_package.deb
<zleap> ok i will attempt to use paste bin then try and copy the right link to netbook
<zleap> http://pastebin.com/2PbQUQmP
<MartijnVdS> ah
<MartijnVdS> zleap: that package is very broken.. it requires lprng (which nobody uses anymore).
<zleap> well the printer now works
<zleap> so how do i get my printer working with ubuntu
<MartijnVdS> zleap: to fix it, remove the line that tries to start "lprng" from /var/lib/dpkg/info/dcp310cnlpr.postrm (and .postinst)
<MartijnVdS> wait no
<MartijnVdS> that will only fix removing that package
<MartijnVdS> not installing
<MartijnVdS> as I said .. the package is broken
<zleap> installing is a mess,  as it uses csh to install
<MartijnVdS> it might work now, but now apt is  broken
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> so i need to fix apt without breaking the printer
<TheOpenSourcerer> bloody ethernet switches. They're everywhere!
<MartijnVdS> zleap: hacking in /var/lib/dpkg/info/packagename.post{inst,rm} is deep voodoo, but it's the only way to get apt to work again on your system
<TheOpenSourcerer> Trying to get a wireshark trace of what my nanode is up to
<TheOpenSourcerer> but I don't have a hub.
<zleap> ok
<TheOpenSourcerer> Any suggestions how to capture the traffic?
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: I have some redundant hubs
<TheOpenSourcerer> Do you?
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: hub, or second ethernet port in a PC that you bridge with the "real" ethernet
<TheOpenSourcerer> Even the bloody router appears to be switched.
<AlanBell> ADSL modem/router
<zleap> i cd to dcp310cnlpr.postinst
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: or arp poisoning :)
<MartijnVdS> zleap: you've never edited shell scripts before, have you?
<MartijnVdS> zleap: because this might get messy quick :(
<zleap> not that much
<AlanBell> I have two ADSL routers that are 4 port hubs
<MartijnVdS> zleap: the .postinst should be a file (shell script) that does lots of things, starting/stopping lprng among others
<zleap> k
<TheOpenSourcerer> I have an old router which I think is a hub.... Might drag that out of retirement and gic it a go.
<MartijnVdS> zleap: you need to rip out the "lprng" bits, without breaking the shell script
<TheOpenSourcerer> s/gic/give
<MartijnVdS> zleap: then dpkg --remove should work (then you can't print anymore, but apt will work again)
<zleap> great
<MartijnVdS> zleap: I don't  think you can install the package properly without lprng installed
<MartijnVdS> because you can't intercept postinst scripts in time
<zleap> so i need to ask brother to do a proper job with the printer driver
<MartijnVdS> zleap: what's the model?
<zleap> dcp310cn
<MartijnVdS> zleap: how is it connected?
<ikonia-remote> zleap: does it not complain about missing dependencies ?
<zleap> network
<MartijnVdS> zleap: then it probably just works anyway
<MartijnVdS> zleap: let me check
<zleap> ok
<zleap> i am sure before i have grabbed a ppd file and told cups where it is
<zleap> then its worked,  i had to fix things before as their scripts were looking for non existant directories so created them manually
<MartijnVdS> zleap: first, let's get your system working again :)
<MartijnVdS> zleap: then worry about the printer
<zleap> ok
<zleap> ok i am in the directory with the scripts in
<MartijnVdS> zleap: /var/lib/dpkg/info ?
<zleap> yeah
<MartijnVdS> zleap: sudo gedit dcp310cnlpr.postrm
<zleap> k
<zleap> ok there is a line with lprng
<MartijnVdS> zleap: can  you pastebin it and the lines around it?
<MartijnVdS> (2-3 should be enough)
<zleap> yeah
<GreenDance> has anyone here ever replaced the power jack on a laptop before?
<zleap> http://pastebin.com/7r64ekNC
<MartijnVdS> zleap: does /etc/init.d/lprng exist?!
<zleap> not sure
<MartijnVdS> if it does.. why?! :)
<MartijnVdS> you don't want lpr or lprng.. you want the CUPS version of everything
<zleap> ok
<zleap> i just run install scripts to install drivers
<MartijnVdS> don't ;)
<MartijnVdS> I saw two options on the brother site: one for lpr/lprng, one for cups
<zleap> ok
<MartijnVdS> I think you've downloaded the wrong one of the two. But let's fix it :)
<zleap> i got the impression from the site i needed bothj
<MartijnVdS> nah'
<zleap> or one expects the otehr or it did a few years ago
<MartijnVdS> it's either/or
<zleap> k
<zleap> ok
<MartijnVdS> though if it's a networked printer, I wonder why it needs special drivers at all
<MartijnVdS> most of those speak "proper" printer languages, like PCL or PostScript
<zleap> cos lookng at the supported printer list in cups my printer isn't listed
<zleap> i go to add printer
<MartijnVdS> I know I know
<zleap> ok so lprng exists
<MartijnVdS> zleap: ok, dpkg --purge lprng :)
<MartijnVdS> that'll remove lprng
<MartijnVdS> and that should automagically fix the package reinstall (dpkg -i)
<zleap> er ok its telling me its not installed
<MartijnVdS> zleap: dpkg -S /etc/init.d/lprng
<penguin42> pity, I like lprng
<zleap> no path found matching pattern /etc/init.d/lprng
<MartijnVdS> zleap: what's in that file?
<zleap> well its a script
<MartijnVdS> zleap: sure, but it should come from somewhere :)
<MartijnVdS> zleap: can you move it to ~root (sudo mv /etc/init.d/lprng ~root)
<MartijnVdS> zleap: that should ALSO fix  the problem.. though hacky
<MartijnVdS> and it's strange that a script that's not under package management is on your system
<zleap> i take it if i am inj that directory i don't need the path
<MartijnVdS> zleap: best to include it if you do rooty things
<MartijnVdS> Just in case
<zleap> oh its ~root
<MartijnVdS> ~root = /root :)
<MartijnVdS> usually
<zleap> ok sorry i thought you did - not ~ small screen
<zleap> ok
<zleap> that seems to be done
<MartijnVdS> ok.. now do the sudo dpkg -i again
<zleap> erm
<zleap> can i search back through the chat window to find it
<MartijnVdS> zleap: sudo dpkg -i the_file_you_downloaded.deb
<zleap> that should reinstall it
<MartijnVdS> yes
<MartijnVdS> but that shuold work now
<zleap> what did we do with that lprng file just move it or got it out the way
<MartijnVdS> zleap: moved it out of the way, so the install script doesn't see it there
<MartijnVdS> zleap: so it doesn't try to run it
<MartijnVdS> (because running it fails)
<zleap> so if its renamed it doesn't matter
<MartijnVdS> no, as long as there's no file named "lprng" or "lpr" in /etc/init.d
<zleap> ok
<zleap> pastebin.com/WTuLdUMD
<MartijnVdS> zleap: there's an /etc/init.d/lpd as well?
<MartijnVdS> zleap: I think you've installed some packages you don't want
<MartijnVdS> zleap: and it's going to be hard to clean up
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> grrr.  why can't things be easy to use
<MartijnVdS> zleap: you shuoldn't have installed lpd and lprng :)
<zleap> so should i remove the lpd file too
<zleap> well i fiollow instructions
<MartijnVdS> zleap: dpkg -l lpd
<MartijnVdS> zleap: and dpkg -l lprng
<MartijnVdS> please
<zleap> ohh ok
<zleap> i have removedf lpr
<MartijnVdS> zleap: the package, or the file?
<zleap> file
<MartijnVdS> ok
<zleap> as it won't remove the package
<MartijnVdS> then try dpkg -i again
<zleap> i did
<zleap> it wants the directories /var/spool/lpd/DCP310CN
<MartijnVdS> :(
<zleap> which i had this issue before and did it manually
<MartijnVdS> Maybe someone else can help you, I have to go afk in a few minutes
<zleap> ok i created those and its happy with installing
<zleap> does dpkg -r remove a package
<zleap> thanks for your help
<zleap> yay thats fixed it
<suprengr> have a peek at slashdot's:  http://interviews.slashdot.org/story/11/08/29/1737257/Ask-Kevin-Mitnick
 * MartijnVdS whistles in suprengr's phone and calls for free
<suprengr> [especially anyone boasting re using IRC as root] ;)
 * suprengr notices a sudden rise in phone bill :(
<MartijnVdS> Time.. for something to drink
<suprengr> MartijnVdS, cheers - just grabbed one [glug]
<MartijnVdS> suprengr: I'm sticking to water :)
<suprengr> [but so am i!]
<Guest74831> evening all
 * suprengr wonders why nose is growing
<TheOpenSourcerer> Annoyingly my old router also appears to be a switch rather than a hub.
<TheOpenSourcerer> /me makes note to self to go and buy a cheap 4 port HUB for sniffing duty.
<MartijnVdS> they don't exist anymore, TheOpenSourcerer
<MartijnVdS> VERY hard to find, anyway
<TheOpenSourcerer> MartijnVdS: That would appear to be the case. So how do peeps sniff now then?
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: you take a machine with 2 network cards, bridge the cards and attach the device to sniff to one card, and "the network" to the other
<TheOpenSourcerer> OK - thanks.
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: you assign an IP to/dhcp on the br0 interface of that host (so you can actually use it for "normal" interwebs)
<TheOpenSourcerer> My desktop only has one LAN port...
<TheOpenSourcerer> My laptop only has one too.
<TheOpenSourcerer> My little server (headless, no gui) has two
<MartijnVdS> PCI cards/USB LAN dongles are cheap
<TheOpenSourcerer> yeah
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: wireshark/tcpdump dump files can be shipped across the network :)
<ikonia-remote> TheOpenSourcerer: is this for practice/interest or for a real problem
<TheOpenSourcerer> ikonia-remote: Both.
<ikonia-remote> TheOpenSourcerer: if it's practice just use a cross-over cable or a switched network card and 1 cable to sniff between PC's
<ikonia-remote> TheOpenSourcerer: what is the real issue (not the practice stuff)
<TheOpenSourcerer> I have a nanode (like an arduino) that I am playing with but there is a problem with a data feed from Pachube.com I am trying to debug it by getting a full trace.
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: can't the nanode run tcpdump? or is it too light for that?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hmmm - MartijnVdS This looks promising: http://biot.com/blog/usb-sniffing-on-linux
<MartijnVdS> that's USB sniffing
<MartijnVdS> not network sniffing :)
<zleap> MartijnVdS, i think i got it all working now it appears there is a package with the right bits in
<ikonia-remote> the usb-sniffing-on-linux gives it away
<MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: well, yes
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah - but it sounds like the arduino sends lots of data that way.
<ikonia-remote> MartijnVdS: put your machine (if it has 2 network cards) between the device and the network
<MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: but USB doesn't do switches, only hubs really :)
<ikonia-remote> TheOpenSourcerer: the arduino sends data by USB ?
<MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: I know, that's what I told him :)
<ikonia-remote> MartijnVdS: sorry, I meant that for TheOpenSourcerer
 * TheOpenSourcerer installs dsniff
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: dsniff has some nice tools in it, also try wireshark (and its terminal brother, tshark)
<TheOpenSourcerer> MartijnVdS: I have wireshark - that's what I've been using - does that have some arpspoofing integrated?
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: I don't think so
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah - I still need to set up arpspoof first
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: oh you're not going the bridge/2 interfaces route?
<GreenDance> I was just wondering, what makes gnome so hardware hungry?
<TheOpenSourcerer> MartijnVdS: This would appear to be easier and quicker.
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: that method also works for VMs :)
<ali1234> GreenDance: do you mean gnome 2 or gnome 3?
<GreenDance> ali1234, gnome 2
<ali1234> mainly the memory leaks then
<ali1234> gnome developers seem to have a policy of never calling free() unless someone reports it as a bug
<ali1234> or maybe it is just because C makes memory management hard
<gord> because gnome is written in GObject which handles memory management for you
<AlanBell> freakyclown: u r wanted in #oggcamp
<TheOpenSourcerer> Team Meeting in 7 minutes all
<suprengr> tik toc - tic tok
<ikonia-remote> I've just visitied www.bbc.co.uk and its got adverts on it ?
<bigcalm> ikonia: what country are you in?
<ikonia-remote> Brazil at the moment
<bigcalm> Then you will see adverts on bbc.co.uk websites
<bigcalm> It's only advert free in the UK
<ikonia-remote> I had no idea they did that
<ikonia-remote> was quite a shock as the sheer volume and size of the averts is quite shocking
<bigcalm> I didn't until I heard people complain about it a while ago
<Myrtti> I was going to say I've never seen any adverts on it while in Finland
<Myrtti> then I realised why
<ikonia-remote> that's quite an agressive bit of work for each hit, to do a look up, and work out if it's a UK IP
<ikonia-remote> Myrtti: proxy ?
<bigcalm> Myrtti: UK proxy?
<bigcalm> ABP?
<Myrtti> simpler than that - I've been using Adblock and the predecessors since 2002 or so
<ikonia-remote> ha
 * bigcalm nods
<Myrtti> I've actually donated to the chrome adblock
<ikonia-remote> it looks less credible as a site with the size and volumes of ads
<Myrtti> anyway
<ikonia-remote> I'm sure it's because I'm used to seeing it without adds
<ikonia-remote> ads
<Azelphur> http://newtech.aurum3.com/images/scottevest.jpg anyone happen to know of anything like that but without the $200 price tag? :D
<ikonia-remote> seems quite a reasonable price
<Azelphur> 120 quid + shipping/import is pretty expensive for a coat
<DJones> Azelphur: The coat is free, you're paying for the storage cupboard :)
<Azelphur> hahaha
<Azelphur> http://external.ak.fbcdn.net/safe_image.php?d=AQAsv7VqNeC8ugek&url=http%3A%2F%2Fgadgetcrave.frsucrave.netdna-cdn.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F07%2Fscottevestcoat.jpg omg even more xD
<ikonia-remote> Azelphur: I think Â£120 for a coat is quite reasonable, I have coats which cost more, so it seems a reasonable price
<ikonia-remote> a good coat will cost Â£70 - Â£200 (not designer stuff, just a good coat)
<Azelphur> *shrug* I've never spent more than Â£10 on any article of clothing
<Azelphur> Â£70 would be stretching it, I'd want it to have solar panels for that :D
<ikonia-remote> what was the "Reapproval" being discussed in the -uk meeting ?
<ikonia-remote> or mentioned in the topic
<AlanBell> hi ikonia-remote
<ikonia-remote> hello there
<AlanBell> it was the LoCo team reapproval with the LoCo council
<AlanBell> every two years we have to demonstrate our awesomeness
<ikonia-remote> do you have to get the team re-approved on a regular basis ?
<ikonia-remote> ahh, every 2 years
<AlanBell> so they keep sending us CDs and other swag
<ikonia-remote> from what I've seen / read the -uk team is one of the more real and active teams
<AlanBell> like a tablecloth that Daviey has
<AlanBell> actually we are middling
<ikonia-remote> how are teams like the malta team getting re-approved, that's been in dead state for years
<AlanBell> France gets 5000 people to their launch parties
<ikonia-remote> AlanBell: it's not all about the numbers....I can get 5000 to a party with "ubuntu launch party, FREE BEER" signs, it's about quality
<AlanBell> sure
<AlanBell> we have a lot of individuals that do amazing stuff
<czajkowski> ikonia-remote: eh the french party is quality
<ikonia-remote> it's nice that you have to be re-approved, I'm just surprised as so many logo teams have just sat in nothingness for longer than 2 years
<ikonia-remote> loco
<czajkowski> and don't advertise free beer
<czajkowski> what do you mean nothingness?
<ikonia-remote> czajkowski: I've heard they advertise free netbooks to each attendee
<AlanBell> but in terms of team activity we are not anywhere near the top
<ikonia-remote> AlanBell: again....quality......
<czajkowski> ikonia-remote: that's a bit different than  fRee beer now don't you think
<ikonia-remote> czajkowski: I was joking on both
<AlanBell> ikonia-remote: stuff like the Italian team ISO testing project is a huge thing they do
<ikonia-remote> AlanBell: I obviously don't follow what all locos do, I just see this one as one of the rarer ones that do "something"
<ikonia-remote> AlanBell: what's -uk's stand out "thing" ?
<AlanBell> we do indeed do something :)
<ikonia-remote> (assuming there is one thing that is the selling point)
<czajkowski> locos differ I guess, ireland has 3 jams next weekend, will all be kinda small, but will be taking part
<AlanBell> well we did do the en_GB translation for one
<AlanBell> we have nothing much planned for the global jam
<ikonia-remote> czajkowski: yes, I have no issue with that
<czajkowski> ikonia-remote: glad you approve :)
<ikonia-remote> czajkowski: I don't think it has to be big, but I'd like to see people do "something" so many locos just exist
<ikonia-remote> although I wasn't aware of how big things like the -it ones are
<AlanBell> ikonia-remote: the grey ones are not approved http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/
<AlanBell> the ones with the colour logos are doing enough to meet the requirements for approval
<ikonia-remote> so if you're not approved....does that mean you have to shut up shop ? or just carry on as an unofficial/unapproved team
<AlanBell> no, you carry right along
<AlanBell> and get help from the LoCo council if required
<ikonia-remote> ah, so it's a guidence thing
<AlanBell> sometimes
<ikonia-remote> you're not hitting the criteria, lets help
<AlanBell> some teams are cool with not being approved, they don't get the CDs, but don't really care
<ikonia-remote> ok, so it's not the worst thing in the world to not be approved
<AlanBell> no, but it would be pretty embarrassing if we had lost it
<ikonia-remote> sorry, I wasn't saying it was worthless,
<ikonia-remote> I didn't mean that at all
<AlanBell> I understand what you mean
<GreenDance> AlanBell, when the UK won, can I ask, what did they send you?
<AlanBell> heh
<AlanBell> "won" isn't quite right
<AlanBell> they send us CDs every release
<GreenDance> sorry
<AlanBell> I have a decent stash of them still
<GreenDance> ok  :)
<AlanBell> I was hoping to get rid of more of them at oggcamp than I did
<GreenDance> AlanBell, do you only have 11.04?
<AlanBell> http://ubuntu-uk.org/free-cds/
<GreenDance> I am on that page already :D
<AlanBell> yeah, 11.04 Ubuntu Kubuntu and Server
<ikonia-remote> AlanBell: UK has too good an internet service for people to not have them, plus the Linux Format magazine keeps people stocked
<AlanBell> yes, but people like the official ones still, and they are good to hand out at events
<czajkowski> yup if teams don't need them
<czajkowski> they don't have to order them either
<AlanBell> when do we order the 11.10 ones?
<ikonia-remote> AlanBell: can you order how many you want ? or just a shed load turns up
<AlanBell> 250 turn up
<czajkowski> AlanBell: close to release date
<ikonia-remote> that's not massivly over kill then
<AlanBell> no, it is fine
<AlanBell> I got them late this cycle because of an ordering mixup, I hope to have them closer  to the release date next time
<GreenDance> AlanBell, when you get a shipment of new cds, do you get rid of the old ones first?
<GreenDance> 'get rid' send them out first*
<AlanBell> I am trying to!
<AlanBell> I was hoping they would go at oggcamp
<AlanBell> the Ubuntu Server ones are rather pointless
<GreenDance> why's that?
<suprengr> AlanBell,  artistic note: had a look - just out of curiosity - that server cover is soo much more a cooler thing than the desktop cover
<AlanBell> GreenDance: I wouldn't give it to a random windows/mac user
<GreenDance> AlanBell, fair enough
<AlanBell> and most people who want an Ubuntu server CD will download and burn, or spin up an EC2 machine from the EC2 images
<AlanBell> the CD wallets are nice, just folded card, but on the inside there is a hidden image of the narwhal tail
<GreenDance> CDs are great for people who have restricted internet allowance
<AlanBell> yeah, or people who just want to try it
<suprengr> AlanBell, yum - narwhal tail soup
<ikonia-remote> I never think the running from CD is a good experience for people to try, issues with the video card config, performance issues running in ram/cd, things like flash / audio / video codecs not running
<ikonia-remote> too many "X doesn't work ,ubuntu sucks"
<AlanBell> and your better alternative is . . .
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: How does the meeting page get created then? It doesn't appear to be here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/MeetingNotes
<AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/MeetingNotes/20110829 put it there
<TheOpenSourcerer> Is there a "caching" thing going on with the LastMeeting redirect?
<AlanBell> probably
<AlanBell> yes
<AlanBell> well that sucks
<TheOpenSourcerer> indeed
<AlanBell> I think it might have changed the redirect type with the wiki upgrade
<AlanBell> bother, I changed it to an include rather than a redirect and it still bounces firefox across!
<TheOpenSourcerer> I'll mail the list with a link to the actual page for the time being then.
<AlanBell> ok
<AlanBell> must be a 301 permanent redirect now
<TheOpenSourcerer> Have you finished editing the Agenda for next time? I'm updating it with the actions etc.
<AlanBell> yes, I didn't edit it
<TheOpenSourcerer> This page was opened for editing or last previewed at 2011-08-29 21:34:30 by alanbell.
<TheOpenSourcerer>  You should refrain from editing this page for at least another 7 minute(s), to avoid editing conflicts.
<AlanBell> yeah, I edited it and closed it without saving
<TheOpenSourcerer> ok
<TheOpenSourcerer> OK - Time for bed. NN all.
<suprengr> yup - me too - just as soon as Buzzcocks finishes [gotta getta dose-a Buzzcoks] ;)
<suprengr> zzz
<ikonia-remote> GreenDance: ping
#ubuntu-uk 2011-08-30
<HazRPG> woah, that's freaky: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKiMqRSHIHs
<HazRPG> I've never managed to do the cross-eyed stereoscopic image thing before... but I managed to do it on that video - and its quite freaky
<HazRPG> its hard to keep the focus of the centre image though
<HazRPG> I parted?
<HazRPG> apparently?
<daftykins> HazRPG: you quit, changing host
<HazRPG> ah
<daftykins> ^_^
<daftykins> just in case you wondered 2hrs later
<daftykins> :>
<HazRPG> heh, thanks :)
<daftykins> my pleasure ^_^
<Azelphur> why does the Ubuntu store insist on charging me in USD/Euro?
<Azelphur> ...and in the meantime charge me UK VAT rates?
<Azelphur> what is this I don't even.
<MartijnVdS> Hm, no Oneiric updates for 2 days?
<dwatkins>   
<dwatkins> oops
<dwatkins> and good morning
<daftykins> o hai
<daftykins> i'm still in the US so i'm -5hrs :>
<daftykins> nearly got hit by Irene :O
<daubers> Morning
<DJones> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning all
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: hit or hit on? :P
<AlanBell> morning all
<bigcalm> Keep forgetting I'm leaving this session running
<bigcalm> Morning peeps :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> and a very good morning to everyone (To be read out loud in the voice of Rabbi Lionel Blue)
<dwatkins> helloes
<MooDoo> anyone need a teaboy?
<MooDoo> rates are cheap :D
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ewww. Tea? Nah...
<TheOpenSourcerer> Coffe Yes :-D
<dwatkins> I alternate between tea and coffee.
<AlanBell> I alternate between coffee and coffee
<TheOpenSourcerer> I alternate between coffee and beer :-)
<MooDoo> ask a simple question ;)
<AlanBell> anyone live over on the right hand side of the country?
<bigcalm> MooDoo: read as 'rats are cheap'
<MooDoo> bigcalm: lol
<MooDoo> :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> selinxium (or whatever his handle is) lives in Southend.
<AlanBell> Daviey: is in the bottom left, must be a pub near him somewhere
<TheOpenSourcerer> There are a few on the mailing list in the west country.
<bigcalm> I guess I should join that mailing list thingy
<bigcalm> Linky?
<AlanBell> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
<bigcalm> Thank you :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> This just seems so wrong... https://github.com/mixu/nwm
<bigcalm> JavaScript is the new black
<AlanBell> nigelb is a big node.js fan
<nigelb> Yeah, but I haven't written much in it yet.
<AlanBell> how did my headset get this tangled??
<nigelb> I just like writing code in javascript. I do suck at it though.
<oimon> train driver announced that train wouldn't be stopping at next 3 stops.. 25% of passengers get off and seek alternative transport. oimon loiters suspiciously. train waits for 2 minutes and then announces that it will be stopping  there \o/
<BigRedS> waiting is, generally, the right thing to do
<oimon> although sometimes waiting 15 mins and then deciding to follow the crowd leads to much lateness
<oimon> but i agree. waiting is usually as quick as buses
<Daviey> AlanBell: I am always in the bottom left.
<gord> i have the magic ability to be always standing at juuust the right spot to have the train doors stop right infront of me, i think i'm a wizard
<Daviey> BUT bottem left of what?
<oimon> gord: me too. i usually add to that trick by holding out my finger and the door button arrives in front of it :D
<Hippychick> gord, do you also walk through brick walls to get to special platforms?
<czajkowski> gord is special, that is all.
<oimon> woke up at 4.30 today :(
<AlanBell> Daviey: propose a pub name and postcode http://ubuntu-uk.org/happy-hour/
<Daviey> AlanBell: One which i haven't been banned from?
<BigRedS> ideally
<Daviey> One i dodn't mind associating with beardy people in?
<nigelb> heh
<Mez> Daviey: pubs you haven't been banned from? That's a short list I'm sure.
<JamesTait> Good morning, world. :-)
<Mez> (and, morning, btw)
<Daviey> hey Mez
<AlanBell> Daviey: are you now not a beardy person?
<Daviey> AlanBell: fellow beards :)
<Mez> Oh... god... it's going to be one of those days.  I've had to use memegenerator in response to emails twice already today.
<MartijnVdS> heh
<MartijnVdS> Mez: Y U NO READ?
<gord> are the emails regarding your excessive use of meme's as a communication tool?
<ali1234> haters gonna hate
<diplo-> AlanBell / TheOpenSourcerer, I'm a west country person.. still not decided where to have a happy hour
<Daviey> diplo-: Where abouts?
<diplo-> Sorry, Near Bath
<diplo-> Placed called Trowbridge
<bigcalm> diplo: was salt mined there or possibly a port for it?
<bigcalm> A Severn (the river) Trow was a salt barge
<diplo-> Not afaik, mainly weaving and stuff here in the past
<diplo-> Bridge by the tree according to google :)
<diplo-> Can't say what tree :D
<czajkowski> aloha folks
<MooDoo> hi czajkowski
<czajkowski> MooDoo: howdy
<MooDoo> czajkowski: relaxed?
<czajkowski> yup
<MooDoo> czajkowski: glad to hear it :)
<oimon> seen this? http://www.benpurdy.com/2011/08/minecraft-in-real-life/
<dogmatic69> lol
<MooDoo> awesome
<DJones> Wierd
<bigcalm> My lack of flash prevents me from seeing this awesome weirdness
<oimon> you're missing out
<bigcalm> Apparently
<oimon> where's your flash anyway? is this a wilful flash-fast?
<bigcalm> Indeed. It needlessly bogs down my system
<bigcalm> I have to keep it on my dev server for testing some client work, but I really don't miss it
<bigcalm> Any youtube video I can't watch in HTML5 quite often works on my phone. And if it doesn't, I'm not really missing out that much
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<Myrtti> so... since there doesn't seem to be linux-386 kernel in the newer versions of Ubuntu, is there a comparable one in Debian? Was just looking at the options I have for the Viglen...
<Myrtti> brobostigon: ohai
<brobostigon> morning Myrtti
 * AlanBell wonders if there is a nice pub in peterborough
<Myrtti> brewery tap
<Myrtti> smack in middle of town
<Myrtti> :->
<AlanBell> added :)
<AlanBell> anyone over in Bristol?
<MooDoo> hi all
<MooDoo> damn vps ran out of memory :(
<brobostigon> :(
<MooDoo> That's what you get for playing with vps's at home :D
<MooDoo> yay for VMWARE :)
<MooDoo> lol
 * AlanBell grumbles about people not knowing what "correct postage" means
<DJones> AlanBell: Doesn't it mean that the person receiving the letter/package will pay the extra to correct the postage charge
<DJones> :)
<AlanBell> yes
<oimon> reminds me i should send a few of those to virgin media
<AlanBell> which is me, sending someone a free CD
<AlanBell> so it is going to be sent back with incorrect postage too
<oimon> how much does it cost to send a cd?
<AlanBell> 2nd larg
<Hippychick> our old post office delivered it anyway
<AlanBell> 1st is 12p short
<AlanBell> so I have had to pay Â£1.12 to receive a CD case
<oimon> wow, i thought a regular stamp would cover it
<DJones> We had a letter from our accountants enclosing a bill which had the wrong postage on so we ended up paying the extra
<ali1234> this is why you should have just asked people to send you a pound sellotaped between two pieces of card
<oimon> ali1234: or a paypal link.
<ali1234> or bitcoins
<oimon> bitcoins = virtual currency.  result = virtual cd (i.e. a url)
<AlanBell> ali1234: yeah, I kind of liked the "no money changes hands" aspect of it, but this time it failed
<AlanBell> I will update the web page
<ali1234> alternatively just don't accept any that didn't have the right postage
<oimon> tbh if i wanted a CD, the faff of SSAE etc would put me off, but a link to pay Â£1ish would be easy
<ali1234> i will send you as many linux cds as you want if you send me bitcoins
<ali1234> i don't accept paypal though
<ali1234> and they are not originals
<ali1234> i will just download and burn them
<oimon> tbh i'm surprised that there are people in the UK who don't have broadband, or a friend with it
<AlanBell> ali1234: you don't know what it is until you pay for it
<ali1234> wut
<ali1234> don't know what what is?
<AlanBell> the post office just leave a note saying you have an item that you need to pay postage for
<AlanBell> could be anything
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> don't collect any of them
<ali1234> then the post office has to return it to the sender
<oimon> what if its' something you purchased and want?
<oimon> like my latest woot tshirt
<ali1234> then you make a claim against the seller "object never delivered"
<ali1234> and buy it from someone else
<oimon> once my grandad sent me a birthday card with a 1p stamp. his eyesight wasn't great and he thought it was a 1st class. it had Â£Â£ in it
<oimon> but no return address
<AlanBell> http://ubuntu-uk.org/free-cds/
<Hippychick> i never saw that before, wheres the furthest you have had to send to?
<AlanBell> well the one with insufficient postage was blackpool
<AlanBell> only sent out a few as we started it mid-release
<Hippychick> fair enough
<AlanBell> I expect we will make a bigger deal of it and accept pre-orders in the run up to Oneiric
<Hippychick> i guess it stops the wastage as well from people ordering for the sake of ordering just because they are free
<AlanBell> I don't know how much that was, I would be interested to know how many CDs shipit sent to the UK
<Hippychick> i know a few years ago i went to order some, and by default it had selected to deliver 5
<daubersmob> Tyre place is very busy today
<popey> moo
<DJones> Is that the real popey, or has a cow nicked his laptop from the field
<popey> heh
<popey> I am in semi civilisation
<popey> just had to do some online banking :D
<DJones> Are you on holiday
<MartijnVdS> DJones: probably Wales or someplace
<Daviey> popey: You sir, are full of false truths.
<Daviey> civilisation is not possible where you are.
<popey> Daviey: you seen where I am ?
<popey> haha
<Daviey> popey: nah, where are you?
<Daviey> specific
<popey> one mo
<popey> http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=cary+park,+torquay&hl=en&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=15.738773,39.331055&vpsrc=0&z=16
<popey> the green bit there
<Myrtti> awww
<Myrtti> Tony Sale has passed away
<oimon> i went near there on my hols this year
<oimon> incidentally i just been watching freakyclown's excellent talk from oggcamp this year
<Daviey> popey: ah, not too far then
<popey> right, best go play with kids
<popey> ttfn
<MooDoo> later popey
<daubers> \o/ new tyres
<dogmatic69> $money--
<dogmatic69>  /o\
<Hippychick> i need a new tyre :/
<Hippychick> daubers, can i have yours? :P
<daubers> Hippychick: Probably the wrong tyres
<Hippychick> shame :(
<Hippychick> maybe you can just take my car for the new tyre then bring it back to me: :D
<daubers> Hippychick: after my wallet being made Â£150 lighter from the two I got.... I'd rather not :p
<Hippychick> fair enough, im Â£600 down from the ferrets :(
<daubers> Â£600 on _ferrets_?????
<daubers> Where they made of gold?
<daubers> Solid gold ferrets?
<daubers> You could buy a hive full of bee's, a beekeepers smock, hive tool, smocker and still have change for that!
<daubers> s/smocker/smoker
<Hippychick> x-rays and medicine
<Hippychick> 1 broke its leg twice and has major calcium defcieny so is being treated for that
<ikonia-remote> Hippychick: are the ferrets pets or business
<Hippychick> and the other being jelous of all the attention decided to try and break his leg so more x-rays and pain meds for both of them
<Hippychick> they are just pets, ikonia-remote
<oimon> ferrets are a replaceable commodity surely?
<oimon> they all look the same
<Hippychick> :O no ferret is replaceable!
 * dwatkins returns to this window to see a statement he thoroughly agrees with
<dwatkins> indeed, Hippychick
<oimon> could you pick yours from an ID parade?
<Hippychick> i could
<Hippychick> they each have different looks and personallities
<oimon> do they all smell so bad or is it just the boys
<Hippychick> mainly the boys, though this improves after they are neuterd, i dont notice any smell anymore
<andrew_> Don't suppose anyone is familiar with slapd?
<DJones> Is it april fools day already? This sounds to good to be believable http://www.tomshardware.com/news/ITRI-Display-Taiwan-USB-3.0-2TB-Thin-Card,13320.html
<ikonia-remote> andrew_: what's up with slapd ?
<andrew_> I have some kind of permissions problem on my db but can't figure out whats wrong - if i comment out two lines in /etc/default/slapd and let it run as root it is fine, but if i start normally as openldap it wont start
<andrew_> I can probably leave it running as root as this is just for a home network
<Hippychick> DJones, that looks awesome, i want!!!!
<andrew_> But I'd like to have it working properly
<DJones> Hippychick: Me too, a 2 TB usb stick, something like that would be brilliant for schools/colleges etc, give every student one & they come to class, plug into a diskless chassis and boot up, take it from room to room with the weight of a laptop etc
<andrew_> DJones, Couldn't that be done with far less storage than 2TB?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hmm - No oracle-java-jdk package in the future then? Better make sure everything works on OpenJDK instead: http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Oracle-retires-licence-for-distributing-its-Java-with-Linux-1332835.html
<DJones> andrew_: It could quite easily, but I'm just surprised at the size of teh stick
<bigcalm> There isn't a 'send window to session n' is there? I can move windows between virtual desktops but not x sessions
<bigcalm> Due to my setup I have 3 seperate X sessions running on 3 monitors
<ikonia-remote> bigcalm: you can't do that
<ikonia-remote> if you used xinerama it may have been possible to write something that could send to X displays,
<ikonia-remote> but as pretty much no-one uses it these days I guess no-one bothered to write it
<bigcalm> I did have xinerama across the 3 monitors, but that gives one a very slow desktop
<ormiret> bigcalm: I think you could do that with xpra
<bigcalm> ormiret: interesting
<ikonia-remote> ormiret: how can that work ?
<ormiret> It sits between teh app and X server that actually does the displaying and gives the option to connect to a different X server
<ikonia-remote> ormiret: you can't send it to different X servers
<ikonia-remote> it's like an X11 version of screen, you can't push applications to different X servers with it
<ikonia-remote> last time I tried it it was quite buggy, which is understandable as it's early development
<ormiret> you can reattach to different computers so a different X server on the same machine should work
<ikonia-remote> that's not sending to a different X server though
<ikonia-remote> that's starting an applicaiton, detatching it, then re-attatching it on a different X server
<ormiret> Other than a bit of shell scripting to mess with $DISPLAY between the detach and the reattach isn't that teh same thing?
<ikonia-remote> for me no, but as you say depends on your needs and expectations
<directhex> bored, ikonia-remote? you seem super ircish since you went to brazil
<czajkowski> heh
 * MooDoo would be bored if he wasn't so damn busy
<DJones> "ircish" I read that as "irish" :)
<MooDoo> DJones: no that's czajkowski[ish] :)
<czajkowski> :D
<MooDoo> czajkowski: have you seen davmor2 today?   i don't seem to recall him poking you recently...
<czajkowski> he;'s leaving me on my hols
<MooDoo> czajkowski: huh?   he's come to see you for a visit?
<czajkowski> no on irc
<MooDoo> ah
<ikonia-remote> directhex: super board
<ikonia-remote> plus as I'm away I thought I'd try to involve myself in the UK channel a little more rather than popping in/out
<Hippychick> when my boss decided to lock all the router access down he never thought about internet enabled phones...
<Hippychick> sorry, not router, internet
<czajkowski> Hippychick: used to use anyterm in a place where it was all locked down
<czajkowski> so I could stil irc
<DJones> Who was it that was waiting for the Â£69 HP Pre? http://www.reghardware.com/2011/08/30/hp_puts_69_pound_pre_3_on_uk_website/
<oimon> directhex:
<DJones> I thought it was either AlanBell or TheOpenSourcerer
<Azelphur> DJones: oO, is there any effort to get android on it?
<oimon> i want another touchpad
<DJones> Azelphur: No idea about that
<directhex> ARGH
 * DJones shouldn't have mentioned it, if that the reaction
<Azelphur> lol
<Azelphur> pressing find a local retailer, nothing is happening
<ikonia-remote> ahhh who cares
<Azelphur> clearly it doesn't want to sell me one D:
<directhex> could you port android to it? sure. should you? Why on earth would you WANT to?
<ikonia-remote> why is everyone obssed with porting android to these things
<Azelphur> because I like android? because it's open source and has a huge selection of apps and is the #1 mobile operating system?
<directhex> Azelphur, open source ish.
<ikonia-remote> android is turning into another Linux where things don't work as there are 200 varients all slightly different
<oimon> i don't really regard android as linux
<oimon> it just runs on linux
<directhex> oimon, good. it isn't, really
<Azelphur> sure it is
<Azelphur> you can hack away at android just like any other distro
<ikonia-remote> I didn't say it was Linux, I said it's turning into another Linux due to how it's being forked/varients
<oimon> do we see android apps running on our linux desktops?
<directhex> Azelphur, awesome. there are some tweaks i want to make to the honeycomb ui...
<Azelphur> oimon: yep
<oimon> Azelphur: how?
 * Azelphur points at the android sdk
<directhex> android isn't gnu/linux. it has a forked linux kernel, and a nonstandard userland. it's possible to run some android apps on a real linux kernel (or other non-android kernel) via software like Alien Dalvik
 * dwatkins wonders if mounting a filesystem from a 200 GB file on a USB-attached disk was a bad idea, when it fails to complete within 30 seconds
<directhex> but it doesn't achieve much.
<ikonia-remote> exactly
<oimon> what happened to this? http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/05/canonical-developers-aim-to-make-android-apps-run-on-ubuntu.ars
<ikonia-remote> oimon: I hope it died
<directhex> as for android on pre3... yeah. could be done. if someone writes the requisite drivers for the touchscreen
<ikonia-remote> just from the url alone
<directhex> and finds a way to fake the hardware buttons via the gesture area
<czajkowski> ikonia-remote: aye you;'ve never been as vocal in here till you went away
<directhex> someone's got cyanogenmod to boot on a touchpad. the colours are wrong, and there's no user input, but it boots
<directhex> same technique would work for a pre3.
<ikonia-remote> czajkowski: thought I'd try to get more invovled in my local comunity
<Azelphur> :)
<Azelphur> In other news, why does Ubuntu software center want me to pay in USD/Euro and charge me UK VAT?
<czajkowski> ikonia-remote: ok :)
<czajkowski> Azelphur: log a bug
<czajkowski> bit odd tbh
<Azelphur> woulda thought there's some explanation to it :p
<dwatkins> haha wow, it took several minutes to tell me off for forgetting the -o loop :)
<czajkowski> you're based in UK
<czajkowski> billing address in UK
<czajkowski> offhand
<directhex> JoShieldsHPPre3 / # uname -a
<directhex> Linux JoShieldsHPPre3 2.6.32.9-palm-rib #1 PREEMPT 153.5.1 armv7l GNU/Linux
<directhex> real lunix
<Azelphur> directhex: does it run X11?
<directhex> Azelphur, the native WM isn't x11. but there's an X11 app in preware.
<directhex> JoShieldsHPPre3 / # /lib/libc.so.6
<directhex> GNU C Library (Sourcery G++ 4.3-234) stable release version 2.8, by Roland McGrath et al.
<directhex> gnu!
<Azelphur> the thing is that when you go to phone hardware and stuff like this not everything works anyway even if you get as close as you are
<Azelphur> Even with the N900 that had "proper" linux and X11
<directhex> JoShieldsHPPre3 / # gst-inspect-0.10 | tail -1
<directhex> Total count: 53 plugins, 199 features
<directhex> gstreamer!
<Azelphur> The majority of stuff still needed heavy tweaking or just didn't work at all
<directhex> JoShieldsHPPre3 / # pulseaudio --version
<directhex> pulseaudio 0.9.22
<Azelphur> also havn't HP abandoned WebOS now?
<directhex> they've axed the hardware. the software is supposedly still being developed, but without shipping hardware, people are nervous.
<Hippychick> just looking at smartphones, the htc sensation has about as much processing power as our media server...
<ikonia-remote> directhex: I still think those tablets would make mega network VT1000 or terminal emmulators
<ikonia-remote> directhex: forget everything else just using them as a terminal emmulator would be a great tools
<directhex> ikonia-remote, if they had rs232 ports, sure ;)
<DJones> Azelphur: There was a report that there was going to be an OTA update for WebOS fairly soon
<DJones> Or for the touchpad anyway
<Azelphur> :)
<DJones> http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-20099049-64/hp-update-to-boost-touchpad-functionality/
<Azelphur> yea I'm not seeing how WebOS has anything over Android/Maemo tbh
<oimon> seems to work nicely?
<ikonia-remote> directhex: network acces would be great, a physical port would be even more amazing
<Azelphur> If you want apps with a little compromise it seems like Android, and if you want real Linux, Maemo is more mature, has more things ported to it, and uses X11 so you can have more things.
<directhex> http://twitpic.com/6ct48e/full
<oimon> isn't maemo pronounced meego nowadays?
<MartijnVdS> directhex: is that banshee?!
<directhex> oimon, except the n9 is running maemo 6, which has meego compatibility ;)
<directhex> MartijnVdS, yes.
<MartijnVdS> directhex: because it looks different than mine
<Azelphur> oimon: good point :P
<oimon> or mee"gone"
<oimon> who bought the kagon tablet a little while back? that cost about the same as a TP as i recall
<directhex> here's the problem with android: it sucks. it really does. it's going to take over the world as the #1 smartphone OS not by being good, but by being everywhere. its devices are user-hostile, the OS is user-hostile. are there some good apps? yes, there are apps i really miss from android on webos. but it's a big app store on top of a crap os
<oimon> HP accidentally made the TP more desirable than the ipad atm
<directhex> oimon, seems like the tp had a pricing problem more than anything, eh?
<ikonia-remote> well, no, it just made it very cheep by killing it
<oimon> tons of guys have become insanley jealous of me suddenly
<oimon> because i have something they can't get
<directhex> your tablet brings all the boys to the yard
<directhex> and you're like "it's better than yours"
<oimon> deffo
<oimon> some people didn't think they existed
<directhex> i nearly bought one full price the week before they axed the price
<directhex> no kidding
<ikonia-remote> luck is on your side
<oimon> the force is with you
<oimon> although you might have got a refund
<ikonia-remote> has anyone jumped into the 6 core intil CPU's yet ?
<directhex> not i
<ging> i can barely afford 2 cores
<directhex> i'm on quadcore i7, wife is on quadcore i5 sandy bridge
 * MartijnVdS is waiting for Ivy Bridge
<ging> 6 cores? there was a time when they thought the world would only need 6 computers
<ikonia-remote> I'm torying with an upgrade for my machine in the loft.
<ikonia-remote> toying even
<directhex> tories? eek!
<ikonia-remote> directhex: I think you know better than that.
<directhex> wifey has a big red pc now. it's got a 6970 in it
<ikonia-remote> red ?
<directhex> red!
<ikonia-remote> colour is important to women
<directhex> http://i.imgur.com/BK7mqh.jpg
<ikonia-remote> nice small case
<ikonia-remote> did yo ubuy it red
<oimon> i like the rennie tablets on top of the pizza advert
<oimon> kind of go hand-in-hand
<directhex> oimon, not a coincidence :|
<directhex> ikonia-remote, yeah, they make that one in red, alu & black
<DJones> directhex: Without wanting to add to the stereotype, .... but my wife has a red laptop because she liked the colour
<ikonia-remote> nice
<ikonia-remote> quite tidy, would fit well under my desk
<oimon> when i eat a subway i swig gaviscon as a pre-emptive strike
<directhex> ikonia, and it came with the cd bezel in red. that was a big problem with other coloured cases
<ikonia-remote> that's a bit annoying
<Hippychick> if it helps i have a dell studio with one of those funky patterns on the lid
<oimon> my wife said she didn't mind what colour our laptop was. so i bought a gunmetal/battleship grey one that i knew was good and i knew how to fix. now she tells me that wasn't exactly true.
<Hippychick> i only wanted the laptop for the funky pattern....
<oimon> i wonder if i can buy a big sticker for the case instead
<Hippychick> oimon, depends on the sticker
<Hippychick> maybe you could spray paint it
<oimon> not this one i suppose http://www.notefashion.com/product.aspx?pid=20100523090446837
<Hippychick> or airbrush might be  a better term....
<ikonia-remote> oimon: there are some companies that do really good viynal covers for laptops, made to spec
<ikonia-remote> eg: apple ones with the apple logo cut out, dell ones with the dell logo cut out, ones that cover the whole case, keyboard surround, monitor surroud, or ones that just cover the lid
<Hippychick> maybe not, though i like the abstract person one
<directhex> ikonia,  http://yfrog.com/z/gzjrmcpzj
<dogmatic69> only two sticks of ram?
<dogmatic69> no ssd
<dogmatic69> :/
<directhex> dogmatic69, only two 4G sticks, yes.
<directhex> dogmatic69, and look to the right of the CPU
<dogmatic69> new mobos take more than 8
<ikonia-remote> directhex: I remember you ordering that
<dogmatic69> ah :)
<directhex> dogmatic69, what's the point in putting 16G of RAM into it at this point? better to save the money
<dogmatic69> ram is about the cheapest part of a new pc
<ikonia-remote> directhex: yeah, cache your whole file system ! waste ram you don't need
<suprengr> was thinking od adding memory myself today - saved the waste and bought a *low* end graphics card instead - weee!
<directhex> dogmatic69, yeah, but we already blew the budget. it's a Â£140 case, for starters.
<dogmatic69> ah
<dogmatic69> what was the budget?
<directhex> something around the Â£1000 mark. bitcoin mining added a few hundred to that though
<directhex> windows, Â£67.50.
<directhex> ram, Â£63.60
<dogmatic69> ew, winblows :/
<directhex> blu-ray drive, Â£72.58
<directhex> looks like a burner
<directhex> case, Â£142.14
<gord> always feel bad about buying cases, its like... yeah its a nice case, but i could put the computer in a cardboard box and it would work much the same
<ikonia_> dogmatic69: ew, people who call Windows, "winblows"
<gord> have this one at the mo, its very nice http://www.corsair.com/cases/obsidian-series/obsidian-series-800d.html
<directhex> CPU, Â£149.99
<directhex> mobo, Â£101.99
<directhex> data disk, Â£57.59
<directhex> psu, Â£59.99
<directhex> ssd, Â£167.99
<directhex> gpu, Â£251.63
<directhex> Â£1138. didn't need another 8 gig of RAM.
<directhex> sata3 throughout - sata3 data disk and sata3 ssd
<directhex> oh, i forgot, her monitor blew out a couple of weeks later, so that was more expense
<dogmatic69> monitors are a big spend
<dogmatic69> especially when you want 2 or 3 of them
<suprengr> directhex, 2nd hand monitors from an electronics shop are usually less than Â£50
<gord> nice monitors are a big spend ;)
<suprengr> anyone know if I can get 'sensors' to detect the temp. of an nVidia Geforce :(   anyone succeeded?
<bigcalm> suprengr: yep, works for my pci-e gt 8600, doesn't work for my pci 8400 gs
<bigcalm> So appears to be card dependant
<bigcalm> Or I have to update sensors
<suprengr> bigcalm, that's what i feared... ta
<directhex> suprengr: replacing a Â£250 24" PVA display with a Â£50 second hand CRT, to pair with a Â£1200 pc? outstanding idea
<suprengr> directhex, who said replace it with a crt?  noooo!
<suprengr> ...and why so aggressive?
<directhex> it comes naturally
<suprengr> ;)
<directhex> now back to dk2
<suprengr> my monitor is a case in point 9yeah - me cheap skate!) Â£30 for a 17" lcd
<suprengr> sub 9 for (
 * suprengr has noticed 'topic' might be a tad beyond sell-by date
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 19th September 21:00 UK time #ubuntu-uk-meeting | {
<chambo> evening all
<MartijnVdS> \o chambo
<chambo> Can anyone suggest an alternative to ampache?
<bigcalm> chalcedony: if that was a typo of Apache, then try lighttpd. If it wasn't then I don't know
<bigcalm> Oops
<bigcalm> chambo: if that was a typo of Apache, then try lighttpd. If it wasn't then I don't know
<hamitron> mpd has plenty of frontends
<hamitron> not used such stuff myself
<hamitron> :/
<bigcalm> Oh, ok, try gnump3d
<chambo> I use mpd locally but i wanted to stream music over tinternet
<chambo> Not sure MPD can do that easily
<hamitron> like icecast?
<Myrtti> AlanBell: }
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 19th September 21:00 UK time #ubuntu-uk-meeting | { }
<AlanBell> thanks Myrtti
<AlanBell> Myrtti passed the test
<MartijnVdS> the OCD test? :)
<MartijnVdS> sorry.. CDO
<dutchie> haha
<Myrtti> I wish I'll pass my second test this week too
<Myrtti> I take this as good omens
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: what test is that?
<Myrtti> MartijnVdS: *cough* Google job interview
<bigcalm> Coooo
<bigcalm> Myrtti: break a leg :)
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: ah, g'luck
 * bigcalm just realises that could sound a bit odd if one doesn't already know the expression
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: only a little ;)
<Myrtti> bigcalm: thankies â¥
<Myrtti> MartijnVdS: thanks, I'll need it
<bigcalm> Myrtti: take a lucky penguin with you ;)
 * suprengr was away playing with 'sensors' & is more than a little impressed with AlanBell 's promptness :)
<MartijnVdS> wow: http://slacy.com/blog/2011/01/wifi-credentials-in-a-qr-code/
<ikonia-remote> MartijnVdS: that's an excellent tool, but a massive security risk for secured networks
<gord> i just put a little post-it note on the router that contains the uuid/key
<AlanBell> that is cool
<MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: afaics it only works for WEP/WPA with a pre-shared key
<MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: not Enterprise-WPA
<MartijnVdS> I might print one for in my home (for visitors)
<ikonia-remote> MartijnVdS: still a security risk that you give someone your password by being able to see an image
<ikonia-remote> it's basically the same as having a post-it as gord does, it's saving the hassle of having to type it, although it's probably only good for phone or tablet devices
<ikonia-remote> pretty touch to get a picture like that on your laptop without messing around/hassle
<ikonia-remote> great idea to give people data like this though
<chambo> An NFC sticker would be even better
<AlanBell> ikonia-remote: if someone is standing in my house and looking at my wifi access point then I would let them on my wifi anyway
<ikonia-remote> AlanBell: yeah, I can't see that as an issue for home use, it's a great trick,
<ikonia-remote> unless you use a laptop in which case it's a headache and easier to type
 * bigcalm notes this for the next time he's round AlanBell's place to steal bbq food
 * AlanBell notes that last time people came round for a BBQ a big sheet with the wifi key written on it was passed around
<bigcalm> AlanBell: I picked up 2 slackers (read Aq and Adam Sweet) so didn't know there was such a bit of paper
<bigcalm> +arrived late
<AlanBell> :)
 * jml is excited
<AlanBell> you know for next year then!
<jml> tonight is podcast night
<bigcalm> Hooray!
<bigcalm> Hooray for bbq food
<bigcalm> Never have the time to listen live
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: Hooray for http://www.amazon.co.uk/Silence-Love-Headless-Heros/dp/B001H1Q99M :)
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: ?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: One of the best albums in my collection
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: also one of the most unknown :)
<bigcalm> Ok :)
<bigcalm> I shall have a listen in Spotify later
<suprengr> I will not send lard through the mail
<suprengr> ;)
<MartijnVdS> suprengr: that sounds like something Bart Simpson would write on the blackboard :)
<suprengr> double ;)
<MartijnVdS> suprengr: it's an oldie too -- 1994 :)
<suprengr> [they're all getting a bit old now - but still fun]
<MartijnVdS> suprengr: they're still making new ones
<suprengr> MartijnVdS, and Family Guy - how does that man do it?
<suprengr> ...& AmDad
<MartijnVdS> suprengr: Family Guy is not the same guy
<MartijnVdS> suprengr: Futurama is
<suprengr> Bender is a close friend
<MartijnVdS> the newest season is a bit hit&miss though
<suprengr> :(
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: enjoying the guitar work in To You
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: all of the songs are covers -- To You is originally by "I am Kloot"
<bigcalm> I see
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: I have the album, the single (North Wind Blew South) and the "remixes" 12" on vinyl
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: http://www.discogs.com/artist/Headless+Heroes (all the covers look similar but different)
<czajkowski> anyone here who following the RWC ?
<suprengr> o/
<suprengr> assuming you mean the wugby rolrld cup ;)
<czajkowski> 9 days to world cup kick off just created #RWCRants on Freenode :D for all the FOSS rugby fans to join in
<suprengr> well done to czajkowski
<ikonia-remote_> RWC ?
<Pendulum> ikonia-remote_: Rugby World Cup
<suprengr> wugby rolrld cup!
<czajkowski> if ya have to explain it you probably don't follow it :)
<suprengr> ...that's what the WRC is when you have WRC parties
<bigcalm> World Rally Championship
<suprengr> [viewing, cheering, * bottles]
<bigcalm> Brum brum
<suprengr> ...& other fellow followers
<ikonia-remote> I can't tell if my connection is alive it's that quite in here
<bigcalm> !ping
<lubotu3> another contentless ping... sigh...
<AlanBell> anyone from newcastle upon tyne or thereabouts?
<brobostigon> anyone from north oxfordshire?
<dwatkins> brobostigon: no, south
<brobostigon> :(
<mrevell> AlanBell, Grew up there, if that's any help
<AlanBell> ohh, pub in Oxford please
<AlanBell> mrevell: hmm, not so much, trying to fill out http://ubuntu-uk.org/happy-hour/
<mrevell> ah
<dwatkins> I like the Folly Bridge Inn in Oxford.
<dutchie> turf!
<brobostigon> AlanBell: i would ask directhex for that one, her worked there.
<dutchie> does get rather busy though
<AlanBell> dutchie is a student there
<brobostigon> :)
 * AlanBell is staying in keble college next week
<dutchie> !
<dutchie> that's my college!
<AlanBell> orly!
 * brobostigon is available for a daytime beer.
<AlanBell> will be at the Transfer Summit
<AlanBell> http://transfersummit.com/
<dutchie> keble is clearly the best oxford college :)
<AlanBell> so what was a good oxford pub? Folly Bridge?
<AlanBell> fairly near the station as parking is a nightmare
<dutchie> the turf is supposedly the best
<dutchie> you can walk everywhere in central oxford really
<dutchie> there is a wetherspoons reasonably near the station
<brobostigon> eeek, i seem to have AlanBell's mobile number.
<dutchie> personally, i usually go to the college bar, the wetherspoons, the turf, or the royal oak
<AlanBell> brobostigon: probably the wrong one though
<brobostigon> AlanBell: yes.
 * AlanBell adds the turf to the list
<dutchie> or the gloucester arms
<dutchie> but that will probably be too metal-ly for some
<AlanBell> do we not have someone in "the other place"
<brobostigon> if one of you, wants to give me a shout, i would be pleased to attend, within reasonble hours.
<brobostigon> how long does it take to get form dover to banbury, at this time of day?
<TheOpenSourcerer> brobostigon: How quick are you going?
<brobostigon> TheOpenSourcerer: my dad is coming back from holiday.
<TheOpenSourcerer> From Farnham, I can get to my Brother-in-laws (Horton) in about 2hrs,
<TheOpenSourcerer> Dover to me is about 2hrs too.
<TheOpenSourcerer> take "me out of it and you could probably do it in 3 1/2 hrs
<brobostigon> so 3.5-4 hours?
<TheOpenSourcerer> yeah
<brobostigon> ok, thank you.
<TheOpenSourcerer> As long as the M25 isn't broken.
 * TheOpenSourcerer will be at Keble College next week too :-)
<brobostigon> lol. google latitude to the rescue.
<brobostigon> alan invasion. :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<dutchie> well room 2004 was my room last year, and 4105 (iirc) is next year
<dutchie> 2004 was very hot :)
<dutchie> stupid hatot water pipes
<dutchie> hot
<brobostigon> TheOpenSourcerer: the same time as AlanBell ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> dutchie: How did you get  into your message?
<TheOpenSourcerer> brobostigon: Indeed. We will probably be sharing a car.
<brobostigon> ok, beer meeetup?
<TheOpenSourcerer> I understand we should use the Park and ride
<brobostigon> geeek out?
<dutchie> TheOpenSourcerer: not sure, think something is broken with my slow connection and ssh or something
<suprengr_> ok - own up - who nicked my internet connxn?
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://transfersummit.com/
<TheOpenSourcerer> brobostigon: ^--^
<TheOpenSourcerer> Python for Visual Studio from MS: http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/microsoft-rolls-out-open-source-python-extension-for-visual-studio/10478?tag=mantle_skin;content
<brobostigon> wednesday-thursday. ok. in my diary.
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: #RWCRants has been created
<czajkowski> where is danfish
<TheOpenSourcerer> czajkowski: Should I care?
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: oi cranky pants, no yer'll lose anyways
<TheOpenSourcerer> I have no idea what #RWCRants means
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ahh!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Penny just dropped
<brobostigon> lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> sorry
<czajkowski> less of the cheeky tone
<czajkowski> hmph!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Mind been on other things.
 * brobostigon needs to think about a shave then, and sorting his moustache out.
<Pendulum> TheOpenSourcerer: I did not just drop :(
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] Old Skool - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2011/08/30/old-skool/
 * AlanBell wonders if Daviey and the bottom left crue have picked a pub yet
<brobostigon> AlanBell: i wasnt going to suggesy two good real ale houses her in banbury myself, aswell.
<brobostigon> suggest*
<AlanBell> one will do :)
<brobostigon> ye olde reindeer inn, parsons street, banbury.
<AlanBell> postcode?
<brobostigon> ox16 *
<brobostigon> let me find.
<AlanBell> yup, I will add that after the next as it is a bit close to oxford
<brobostigon> ox16 5na
<AlanBell> well actually I am going to jumble them all up somehow
<brobostigon> adapt a random number gen.
<AlanBell> no, I will do it manually
<brobostigon> ok.
<brobostigon> same pub as i planned the release party for, a few years ago, where i met directhex.
<AlanBell> want to get a balance of locations with it returning fairly often to within an hour of london
<brobostigon> ok.
<brobostigon> i am always amazed, how the version of networkmanager in debian unstable, can deal so easily with more than ione network connection. ie i am trying to fix the adsl, so connected to it via wifi. and tethered to my mobile at the same time.
<suprengr_> so it was brobostigon who nicked my internet connxn then?
<brobostigon> :(
 * suprengr_ forgives
<brobostigon> yay :)
<suprengr_> if you'll all forgive me.. it's hard work having time off work ;) ..so I'm off to zzz
<diplo> evening all
 * TheOpenSourcerer decides it is time for bed. Laterz all.
<brobostigon> nos da TheOpenSourcerer o/
<Azelphur> haha, team avo just tried to grief my minecraft server
<Azelphur> me and 2 other admins responded, they all got banned, I rolled back the damage
<Azelphur> now I'm getting lots of people asking where the griefing is
<Azelphur> and I'm like "nowhere, they all got banned and the damage was undone before you arrived"
<Azelphur> xD
<directhex> minecraft 1.8 looks enticing. i might start playing again
<diplo> Still never tried it myself
<funkyHat> I've seen my brother playing it, can't say it made me want to get it myself particularly
<diplo> oh, first person i have heard not say overly positive comments about it
<diplo> :)
<AlanBell> ok, so the plan is coming together for the Ubuntu UK Happy Hour project
<AlanBell> where and when should we do the first pub?
<brobostigon> <-----
<brobostigon> sorry
<AlanBell> want to start on one where we can reliably draw a crowd, so that is probably London
<brobostigon> yes.
<AlanBell> Morpeth Arms near Canonical might be interesting place to start
<AlanBell> gord suggested that one I think
<gord> nope not me
<AlanBell> ok, well still a decent enough place to start
<diplo> As long as there is notice I'm willing to train down to london to get out
<diplo> Nice to meet people from here
<AlanBell> ok, so lets try and do London, Farnhborough, Nottingham, Oxford as the first four
<brobostigon> sounds good
<diplo> ooh Nottingham I could work with a visit to headoffice
<AlanBell> ooh, rugby world cup stuff all over the diary
<AlanBell> czajkowski: pub!
<bigcalm> Sleepy time
<AlanBell> oh Rugby is all on in the mornings
<czajkowski> AlanBell: I know!
<AlanBell> not very well planned!
<AlanBell> anyhow, when would you like the first happy hour to be?
<czajkowski> blame once again timezones!
<AlanBell> as our official London correspondent
<czajkowski> 10/7 ?
<czajkowski> bah
<czajkowski> 10/9
<AlanBell> which is next Saturday
<czajkowski> 23/9
<czajkowski> 23 would be more notice so
<AlanBell> 24th?
<czajkowski> yup 24th
<AlanBell> bother, can't do 24th
<AlanBell> 17th?
<czajkowski> no matches on then really
<AlanBell> australia vs Ireland has to be good for a laugh
 * AlanBell is basically set to announce http://ubuntu-uk.org/happy-hour/ a bit more loudly tomorrow
<ball> That reminds me, I need to shop for an Ubuntu polo shirt to wear on "casual Fridays"
#ubuntu-uk 2011-08-31
<Earthling> Hello early chatters
<nigelb> hello!
<ball> Mornin'
<Earthling> Good god. Make coffee please
<ball> Coffee sounds like a good idea.
<ball> I've still got to take the rubbish out, it's bin day tomorrow
<Earthling> Yes go make :-)
<ball> ...then I have to find clothes for work in the morning.
<Earthling> Widely a task I try not to forget. But do
<HazRPG> hmm, apparently I can now upload videos longer than 15mins on youtube now o.O
<HazRPG> Just got a "Congratulations! Your account is now enabled for uploads of longer than 15 minutes. Click the Upload button below to select a video." message on the upload section after I uploaded something
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: now to find an activity that you can do for >15 minutes :P
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Indeed!
<HazRPG> this is interesting... apparently everyone is logged in 3 times on my list of users o.O
<HazRPG> actually, not everyone... just some
<HazRPG> apparently there's 344 people in here, that's way more than average
<MartijnVdS> strÃ¤nge
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: very!
<HazRPG> bah, why I can't I remember the name of the gui tool for launchpad that someone made
<HazRPG> it was a man and his wife that made it
<HazRPG> even had videos
<HazRPG> ah ha! I found it!
<HazRPG> http://ground-control.org
<nigelb> HazRPG: heh, doctormo made it, but I don't know if his wife wwas part of it.
<HazRPG> nigelb: Well she helped make the intro video at least ^_^
<nigelb> Ahh.
<HazRPG> Can't remember if she's in any of the other videos though
<diplo-> Morning all
<DJones> HazRPG: Thats a name from the past, doctormo is from the same town as me and a couple of friends were at school with him
<HazRPG> DJones: awesome ^_^
<DJones> He came back to the uk eitehr last christmas or the one before and I was going to meet up with him, but life got in the way & didn't get chance, I assume he's still based in the US at the minute
<DJones> More Touchpads being made after the fire sale http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/08/31/last_run_of_touchpads/ So still a chance to buy one when they hit the shelves
<ging> for a cheap price?
<ging> sort of defeats the point if they're back up to a higher price
<AlanBell> cheap by the looks of things
<AlanBell> clearly they can make and distribute them for cheap if they want
<ging> you think they will be doing the same sort of thing for enterprise storage systems?
<AlanBell> lol
<ging> $100 san systems
<AlanBell> so who can make it to London on 17/09/2011 for a pub based evening?
<diplo-> Long weekend with my boys so not me I'm afraid
<MooDoo> hello all
<BigRedS> AlanBell: I might be able to. Stop planning these things when I'm on call :)
<AlanBell> MooDoo: Nottingham is early on the list . .
<diplo-> Any one know on HP machines if the serial number I find in dmidecode would be the correct one ?
<diplo-> Trying to fill out my cash back form and machine is at home :/
<AlanBell> serial number from that is normally "OEM SHOULD POPULATE THIS" or some such
<diplo-> http://pastebin.ubuntu-uk.org/120069 - AlanBell ?
<MooDoo> AlanBell: thanks, i'll bear it in mind :)
<AlanBell> diplo-: heh, like that! however the top one looks plausible doesn't it
<AlanBell> MooDoo: nope, you will pick the date!
<MooDoo> AlanBell: yeah i knew that, i've just posted a twitter to my other ubuntu users, i'll add one shortly
<TheOpenSourcerer> This is rather cool... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXbBA1DRE84
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning BTW
<AlanBell> morning
<bigcalm> Morning peeps :)
<diplo-> yeah I was hoping it was, just my form for my microserver.. don't want to miss out on the Â£100, suppose I could wait till tomorrow
<MooDoo> hay who put up the crown in beeston? :)
<gord> this is some horrible pun isn't it?
<czajkowski> aloha
<MooDoo> morning czajkowski
<czajkowski> where is davmor2
<MooDoo> czajkowski: not seen him in a couple of days....
<czajkowski> pff and he gives out to me
<MooDoo> czajkowski: i'm not happy either.....;)
<czajkowski> diddums
<MooDoo> czajkowski: oi don't give me that ..... POKE!!
<Gary> hey czajkowski how ya doing?
<czajkowski> Gary: grand, how's life?
<czajkowski> MooDoo: you'll get such a clatter!
<Gary> it's alright, I'm still in a bit of pain, but alive :-)
<MooDoo> czajkowski: i'm not scared of you !  you upstart you ;)  see ubuntu related smackdown ;)
<czajkowski> Gary: what have you done to yourself
<czajkowski> MooDoo: my dear I never taint ubuntu with such slander
<Gary> splatted into the pavement after crashing into another cyclist on a blind corner
<Gary> czajkowski: broke my hand and splatted my face and chest a bit
<czajkowski> Gary: yer a bit special
<czajkowski> how about walking from now on ok
<Gary> thats wot my mom said!
<AlanBell> czajkowski: but not on ice
<MooDoo> czajkowski: my dear?   god don't call me that....you win
<czajkowski> AlanBell: fecking hate ice and snow and cold! .... rant!
<czajkowski> MooDoo: glad you finally get it :)
<bigcalm> Looks like another funeral is taking place this morning. Living 5 doors from the village church can be a little depressing at times. Not to mention the traffic congestion it causes
<MooDoo> czajkowski: just seen your link on FB, your right some people should never have kids :(
<MooDoo> czajkowski: makes me mad, even more so as i'm still waiting for my new one..
 * bigcalm will never have kids, so that's on less problem in this world
<MooDoo> bigcalm: why never?
<czajkowski> MooDoo: indeed
<MooDoo> never is a long time
<czajkowski> bigcalm: never say never, stuff happens and then what.
<czajkowski> though I've a mate and she HATES kids
<czajkowski> and I don't understand that statement
<czajkowski> and I know it's not a good idea to ask her to babysit, but she really hates being around kids and never ever wants them, I find it odd when a woman says that
<MooDoo> kids can be a pain in the neck, but there is ALWAYS a love for them :)
<czajkowski> MooDoo: exactly
<MooDoo> it's something that is difficult to understand unless you have them yourself.
<gord> i don't know how to act around kids, everyone else seems to go into baby talk mode and go "awww" a lot. i go "sup..." and get bored with them
<czajkowski> I had a weird moment this week, I baby sat my godaughter when she was 2 weeks old, this week she's in the car driving
<JamesTait> Goooood mooorning all. ;-)
 * freakyclown hopes there were several years between?
<freakyclown> or are babies allowed driving licences now?
<MooDoo> czajkowski: can i borrow your services in a few days then ;) lol
<czajkowski> freakyclown: 16 years and 11 months
<MooDoo> czajkowski: feel old much?
<DJones> czajkowski: What was the channel you set up for the rugby, it might be the wrong code of rugby for me, but I do pay a bit of attention to it
<czajkowski> MooDoo: just a tad
<czajkowski> DJones: #RWCRants
<DJones> Ta
<andylockran> DJones: #RWCRants
<andylockran> :p
<czajkowski> danfish: #RWCRants has been created
 * MooDoo has just join...ready to batter the iri....oh that didn't work too well last time did it
<czajkowski> nope
 * MooDoo hugs czajkowski :p
<gord> really weird creature rants?
<czajkowski> my goddaughter is cool though, from an early age she was given fleece hoodies and track suit bottoms and cosy stuff, she's into her basketball now
<czajkowski> and 5ft 10 she's pretty cool
<czajkowski> gord: Rugb world cup rants
<gord> ahh
<MooDoo> czajkowski: that's tall for a girl
<czajkowski> MooDoo: her dad is 6 3 and her mum is 5 3
<MooDoo> czajkowski: my number one son is expected to be any where between 6 and 7 ft :S  i hope it's the former
<oimon> wow...7ft is mutant
<oimon> ;)
<oimon> do they say that usually children are taller than the shortest parent?
<MooDoo> oimon: well my wife is 5'4 and i'm 6'6, he's already in 4/5 cloths and he's not even three yet...
<Hippychick> wow MooDoo your tall! i was always estimated to be around 6ft, i was really tall when i was young, towered over everyone, but im only 5ft 6
<MooDoo> Hippychick: it's ok being tall but a pain, especially when i'm in a new building, door frames are usually 6'6 so when i'm wearing boots i'm a little taller and ouch :D
<MooDoo> only time will tell :)
<oimon> i was on the 99% on the weight chart as a child, now i'm underweight and can't put it on!
 * MooDoo hit 19 stone the other week :S
<oimon> i'm half the man you are :-S
<MooDoo> oimon: my wife wishes i was sometimes lol
<oimon> means i get tired a lot
<oimon> my body can't cope with missing a meal
<Hippychick> oimon, you would hate my way of life! i often miss meals
<Hippychick> somtimes i dont eat for a couple of days
<MooDoo> oimon: yeah i have that problem, although if i exercise i get lots....when i was doing karate i had boundless, now i don't i'm a couch potatoe!
<MooDoo> Hippychick: ouch
<oimon> my desk is full of munchies in case i get dizzy between meals
<bigcalm> I get so engrossed in my work that I often forget to eat. Very rarely do I have breakfast either
<Hippychick> i get sick and dizzy alot from it though
<diplo> And I used to think i was bad!
<diplo> Was 19'10 last year, now 13 1/2 / 14 stone
 * MartijnVdS lost 30kg in a year by running
<oimon> Hippychick: what's the longest you think you could go without eating?
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<diplo> I sometimes go 2-3 days oimon, not so much recently... I Used to be like you
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<Hippychick> oimon, im not sure to be honest, i think the longest so far is 2 days but im sure if i wanted/needed to i could push it longer
<Hippychick> its mainly when im offsite for work and i cant bring my self to go for a lunch break or eat in a restaurant, its an anxiety trigger...
<MartijnVdS> Hippychick: http://www.pizza.co.uk/ ;)
<oimon> i've got a wicked warm coat this year after the last 2 years of insufficient clothing. i think that guarantees a mild winter this year :-S
<Hippychick> oimon, at least you will have a warm coat for when the big freeze eventually comes
<oimon> i've jinxed it...won't happen this year :)
<Hippychick> maybe not this year but surely you coat will last more then 1 year?
<BigRedS> especially if you don't need it this year
<Hippychick> at this rate im going to need a warmer coat, im already wearing my thickest one in the offive because im too cold
<oimon> lol i had the heater on yesterday. my office is freezing from sep-april
<DJones> We switched the heating on yesterday morning, then found out that water pressure in the central heating had dropped too low, one of the sales staff fiddled to increase the pressure, worked ok for 15 minutes before the boiler started leaking
<Hippychick> unfortunatly we have constant air con all year round else my boss gets too hot
<DJones> Hippychick: That'll be nice in summer, but not good the rest of the year
<DJones> Forget that, its teh UK, what summer...
<BigRedS> I've never understood that. Surely the temperature's pretty constant in an A/C environment
<Hippychick> BigRedS, yeah, constantly cold!!!
<oimon> when i worked in the gherkin i sat underneath a faulty air con unit
<oimon> i think we were the first people to use that floor. just before i left, it got fixed...2 years too late
<gord> just realised that i have no idea what the point of +1'ing things on google + is
<oimon> gord: it's a like button to show your other g+ friends
<gord> that doesn't explain what the point is
<Myrtti> well
<gord> all it does is put "foo bar  +1'ed this post" underneath
<oimon> i realise bad air con environment can be a major source of stress
<Myrtti> if you consider that Google+ isn't a social network, then it starts making sense
<oimon> gord: while signed into google, some links show higher in search results because people in my circles +1 them
<Hippychick> air con plays up with my sinisus and gives me headaches
<Myrtti> +1 buttons are a way to combine a real person to the +1 buttons, and they show up higher... like oimon said
<oimon> i found a guys launchpad page on the first page of google just because he +1'd it and was in my circles
<oimon> when i searched for launchpad
<gord> eh, i think google has enough statistics to know what website i wanted
<ali1234> when i search while logged in on google it always shows my my own webpages
<ali1234> which is dumb
<ali1234> i already know about those
<Myrtti> gord: but it doesn't have the statistics of who are your friends
<Myrtti> well, didn't.
<Myrtti> now it does
<gord> yeah it did
<oimon> i'm backing out of g+ slowly..
<gord> it used to tell me what popey had linked to on twitter
<gord> it was weird
<oimon> i like today's t-shirt on http://shirt.woot.com/
<j0nr> hey folks
<j0nr> ok, easy one...
<Hippychick> eeep an evilGary *run, hide*
<j0nr> I am trying to scp files from my home computer to remote server. I have setup keys, so when on the home computer it usually pops up a GUI box asking for key passphrase when I try using SSH via some GUI app. But if I try and do it via command line, what then?
<j0nr> for example, I am accessing my home computer remotely via ssh. then within an ssh session on my home computer I want to scp many files... but it keeps prompting me for my ssh password (home -> server) everytime
<j0nr> I'm trying to run a batch script that iterates scp many times, but do not want to be prompted for password everytime
<BigRedS> j0nr: it should prompt you for the key passphrase
<BigRedS> you'd need a passphraseless key in order to not be prompted
<j0nr> BigRedS: it doesn't seem to
<BigRedS> ah, then it's not using the key
<BigRedS> you can do   ssh -i /path/to/key   to force it to use a particular key
<j0nr> BigRedS: But if I am sitting on the machine, I get a GUI asking for password......
<evilGary> Hippychick: mwhahaha
<BigRedS> j0nr: the GUIs asking for the passphrase
<j0nr> then I can ssh in as many times as I want in that session without further prompting
<BigRedS> for the key. you don't get a gui prompt for the unix user password
<BigRedS> the DE then remembers the passphrase and enters it for you
<j0nr> DE?
<BigRedS> desktop environment. Gnome or KDE or whatever
<BigRedS> on a non-gui machine, though, there's nothing to remember that
<j0nr> oh. So am I not right in thinking, with no gui, if I want to perform multiple scp ops I have to enter password/phrase every time?
<j0nr> badly worded... I want to do mulitple scp operations without being prompted everytime
<j0nr> hmm I could just do my scp with one command
<freakyclown> look at "yes" command
<dutchie> surely ssh-agent is the classic solutoin
<BigRedS> j0nr: if you have a key with no passphrase you shouldn't need to enter anything
<AlanBell> if you have a passphrase key it should remember it for your session
<AlanBell> the bash script is probably spawning new sessions or something
<AlanBell> normally you can ssh somewhere, get prompted to unlock the key, then ssh somewhere else with no prompt
<czajkowski> gah trying to review a site for asome comapny info, would it be wrong to say your site is confusing
<MartijnVdS> login shell vs non-login-shell?
<Hippychick> anyone going to the mini maker faire in brighton on saturday?
<oimon> no but it sounds great
<czajkowski> http://ticketing.southbankcentre.co.uk/find/music/gigs-contemporary/tickets/video-game-heroes-60710  London folks
<oimon> Hippychick: have you read cory doctorow's book Makers?
<Hippychick> oimon, no i havent
<oimon> it's a fictional book about reprap & other stuff
<Hippychick> aha, to be honest im very anti reprap, but thats only because oly wants to take over the house with his!!
<oimon> it's a free download :)
<matti> :)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [James Tait] A year at Canonical - http://voices.canonical.com/james.tait/2011/08/31/a-year-at-canonical/
 * MooDoo must really sort out mu domain names 
<DJones> MooDoo: I think www.babyphotos.co.uk might have been registered :)
<MooDoo> DJones: lol :) i've got a few linux.uk.com being the one i should do something with :d
<oimon> i've never registered a domain :o
<oimon> never really saw the point
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Laura Czajkowski] Ubuntu Global Jam in Ireland  3 of them! - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2011/08/31/ubuntu-global-jam-in-ireland-3-of-them/
<MooDoo> DJones: it's handy if you want to play with websites.....
<DJones> MooDoo: I have a website, its not really something that gets me wanting to do more though
<MooDoo> fair enough :)
<gord> i have the best website. http://gordallott.com/
<oimon> i guess i get all the playing out of my system at work
<MooDoo> gord: wow well poulated site ;)
<gord> i no rite
<MooDoo> oimon: you'd think i would being in the webhosting industry lol
<oimon> MooDoo: yes,  and i would expect you have a zillion domains
<MooDoo> oimon: a few, i could have more, it's just getting the ideas to use with them
<gord> i mostly use my webspace as a place to put gifs i made, like http://gordallott.com/share/ohgodiwentanddiditbadly.gif (i refuse to explain the context - its more fun that way)
<MooDoo> gord: well at least i've given me someone new to follow on twitter :)
<DJones> Thats a scarey .fig
<oimon> bizarre
<DJones> s//fig/gif
<oimon> hmm finished my lunch;still hungry
<MooDoo> just eating mine
 * TheOpenSourcerer just had a curry with a home grown Naga sprinkled on top :-D
<MooDoo> yum
<MooDoo> these jalapeno's on my sarnie just don't cut it any more
<Hippychick> im pondering what to have for lunch...
 * AlanBell has eggs on toast (with crushed chillies on top)
<AlanBell> not naga though
 * Hippychick doesnt do spicy food
 * MooDoo didn't until about a year ago now can't get enough
<Hippychick> the most i will have is a very mild curry, only a bit spicier then a korma
<MooDoo> Hippychick: my wife only like korma
<Hippychick> hmmm, seems i have been billed twice for internet this month :/
<MartijnVdS> Hippychick: it's a long month.. :)
<Hippychick> MartijnVdS its a long year :/
<MartijnVdS> Hippychick: no that's next year -- it's one day longer than this year ;)
<Hippychick> bugger :(
<Hippychick> i'll have to check with ukfsn when i get home, find out whats going on
 * TheOpenSourcerer boots a very whiny server...
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: that's not nice, stop kicking it now ;)
<daubers> Afternoon
<MartijnVdS> \o
<oimon> i just received a genuine email from someone called jean-luc picard
<oimon> :D
<MartijnVdS> lies!
<oimon> he works at Dell
<Hippychick> do you think his parents were trekkies?
<MartijnVdS> oimon: Captain of Enterprise Systems?
<oimon> should be
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: Hippychick well at least when he was a kid and ripped his clothes he could walk up to mum, point at hole and "make it sew" ;)
<oimon> or just french
<Hippychick> MooDoo, thats lost on me, ibe never really seen star trek
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: and "Engage" to a girlfriend?
<Hippychick> i only recognise the name
<oimon> my wife watches it. i regard it as a soap opera
<MooDoo> Hippychick: sorry :)  he says "make it so" a lot in the program
<Hippychick> ahh lol
<directhex> next generation fails at the "long story arcs" requirement of soap operas.
<MooDoo> directhex: better than enterprise...*spit*
<directhex> "A crucial element that defines soap opera is the open-ended nature of the narrative, with stories spanning several episodes. The defining feature that makes a television program a soap opera, according to Albert Moran, is "that form of television that works with a continuous open narrative. Each episode ends with a promise that the storyline is to be continued in another episode"." - ds9 and voyager, fair enough
<oimon> i'm just surprised so many men watch it
<ikonia-remote> MMMmmm Startrek
<ikonia-remote> directhex: TNG does not fail
<MooDoo> my god this channel is like watching an episode of The Bing Bang Theory sometimes...:D
<directhex> ikonia-remote, it's not a soap opera. with a couple of brief Q-based exceptions, the order you watch the episodes in doesn't matter
<Hippychick> MooDoo, never seen it...
<MooDoo> Hippychick: raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
<MooDoo> :D
<oimon> they put a token character with massive boobs in it for the middle-aged men to ogle at
<MartijnVdS> barbarians at the gate! :)
<MooDoo> oimon: and? lol
<ikonia-remote> directhex: not true, there are some pretty important ones
<ikonia-remote> directhex: drumhead for example refernces a few important episdoes
<ikonia-remote> the best of both worlds is a key 2 parter that has referenced, and as you say the Q introduction to the borg earlier is a long term story
<ikonia-remote> chain of command two parter has implications for the last season as a lot of what happens there is important to the intorduction of the cardasian stories, that spill also into DS9
<directhex> but as a series, you cannot expect a cliffhanger. there's about a series' worth of continuity, in 7 seasons total
<ikonia-remote> seasons 1 + 2 - just individual episodes....2......so sad with season 2, season 3 they start to introduce long term history and background, season 4 - 5 starts some long term story plants, seasons 6 - 7 that's where it all ties up
<oimon> lol this all started because JLP emailed me
<ikonia-remote> you could say that season 4 onwards introducts very loose cliff hangers to be tied up in seasons 6 and 7
<ikonia-remote> the one that is super sloppy is the limitation of warp speed due to the effects it has on space and the fact that star fleet limit it's use to warp 5 and lower, yet no-one seems to remember this in later series such as DS9 or the films.....
<ikonia-remote> sloppy Rick Berman....sloppy
<MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: that's because it's WAR
<MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: </handwave>
<directhex> ikonia-remote, don't forget the terrible "backwards evolution" episode of voyager, w/ warp 10
<MartijnVdS> directhex: don't worry, the producers prefer to forget that one too :)
<ikonia-remote> MartijnVdS: war didn't kick off in DS9 until season 4
<ikonia-remote> directhex: don't remind me......
<ikonia-remote> for a universe that does so much to hold things together across series and not break the rules, it makes some sloppy mistakes
<ikonia-remote> still an amazing universe to set some great stories
<directhex> now, babylon 5, there's a real space opera
<ikonia-remote> NO !
<ikonia-remote> </discussion>
<ikonia-remote> I never gave it a fair chance though, due to the first series
 * MooDoo thinks he'll stick with Falling skies :)
<DJones> MooDoo: Did you ever watch Jericho? that seems very mutch like falling skies
<directhex> ikonia-remote, babylon 5 is an 88 episode story arc, followed by a rushed 22 episode story arc. with a couple of spots in the middle
<MooDoo> DJones: i think i watched a few yes.....might have to try watching it all again
<directhex> and the second to last episode is really dire
<DJones> MooDoo: The music in falling skies seems to have been nicked from Jericho
<MooDoo> DJones: same director?
<DJones> not sure
 * daubers has been recently tempted by the rereleased farscape boxset
<Hippychick> daubers, i loved farscape
<ikonia-remote> directhex: I may give it more of a chance
<Hippychick> it has one of my fave qoutes in 'bill gates cant guarentee windows, how are you going to guarentee my saftey'
<daubers> heh :)
<gord> tried re-watching all the farscapes a few months back, its not possible to make it through the season where they introduce the annoying screaming red-headed girl :(
<iceflatline> gord: I completely agree. that's where I stopped :)
<ikonia-remote> sounds like I need to avoid farscape
<gord> well no, when its good its pretty good
<gord> but half the episodes are bad
<freakyclown> im watching the entire thing for the first time
<iceflatline> ...or fast forward through *.redheads.
<daubers> I just remember the episode where krypton reprogrammed the little robots to play the 1812 overture
<gord> listening to japanese funk versions of classical music, life turned out precisely how i expected it to as a kid.
<ikonia-remote> gord: that's made me chuckle
<Myrtti> I listen to piano versions of Radiohead
<bigcalm> Slightly less depressing that way
<ikonia-remote> there is a string quartet version of Guns and Roses use your illusion albums, it's excellent
<ikonia-remote> and I've got a piano and string quartet version of a musician I like that's very good
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol: http://seldo.tumblr.com/post/9549775746/this-is-genuinely-microsofts-idea-of-a
<TheOpenSourcerer> Any UX dudes should read this ^--^
<MooDoo> more people whining about the new UI in windows 8 :)
<directhex> MooDoo, the problem is it's a self-parody.
<daubers> "We did all this research then made conclusions that suited our purpose, ignoring the actual results of the research"
<MooDoo> :)
<daubers> Surprised it wasn't a government ICT project
<directhex> http://blogs.msdn.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/communityserver-blogs-components-weblogfiles/00-00-01-29-43-metablogapi/8816.Figure-10-_2D00_-Home-tab-usage-heatmap_5F00_2.png is the canonical example
<directhex> "new item" is 6x more used than "new folder", but the icon is half the size
<directhex> and they're proud about the default toolbar containing 84% most used items. but the top 10 items cover 81.8% - meaning 50% of the real estate (everything in that link above without a purple border) accounts for 2.2% of usage
<directhex> that is moronic
<daubers> Been ages since I listened to the beautiful south
<Hippychick> daubers, i was listening to them the other day
<daubers> :)
<seeker> daubers: What beautiful south stuff are you listening to?
<daubers> seeker:  Found my copy of Blue is the Colour, so just sat listening to that
<seeker> Cool
<daubers> "Little Blue" used to be one of those songs that I'd listen to over and over and over
<oimon> aaaargh my eyes! i just saw the win8 post
<DJones>  /me offers oimon some eye bleach
<oimon> surely it's a joke, right?
<MooDoo> lol nutters
<oimon> they win for the crazy idea of the year..even more funny than gnome3 ideas
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: :o http://www.youtube.com/cosmicpanda
<HazRPG> it looks so much nicer than standard youtube!
<HazRPG> (its from the TestTube - ala YouTube labs)
<bigcalm> !ping
<lubotu3> another contentless ping... sigh...
<HazRPG> pong!
<bigcalm> !ping
<lubotu3> another contentless ping... sigh...
 * bigcalm slaps VM
<HazRPG> pong!
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] Ubuntu Membership - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2011/08/31/ubuntu-membership/
<HazRPG> ^_^
<bigcalm> Hello HazRPG
<kirrus> bigcalm: Vacant Mouse? :P
<ikonia_> why did the bot announce that ?
<bigcalm> kirrus: maybe that's why my cable connection is iffy
<kirrus> heh
<bigcalm> ikonia_: it shouldn't have?
<HazRPG> hi bigcalm :)
<ikonia_> don't know, I just wondered why it did
<Myrtti> ikonia_: it's done that for years
<bigcalm> And yet we don't know why ;)
<ikonia_> what's the trigger I mean
<ikonia_> what caused it
<bigcalm> ikonia_: http://planet.ubuntu-uk.org/
<Myrtti> ikonia_: nothing? it checks the Ubuntu UK planet and announces new blogposts when they appear
<ikonia_> ah, so a new blog post was the trigger
<mgdm> ikonia_: it's an RSS to IRC type thing
<ikonia_> I see
<diplo> evening all
<ikonia_> evening
<Myrtti> aw, I saw someone in twitter mentioning a social media app and I looked it up and it looked interesting, but now I've forgotten the name of it :-< I thought it was tonytiger that mentioned it but it looks like it wasn't
<Myrtti> I wish my memory weren't so selective
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: it does.. also, the panda reminds me of flickr :P
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: http://www.flickr.com/explore/panda
<Myrtti> meh
<Myrtti> my prepaid UK phone number has started getting spam texts :-(
<Myrtti> I'm not a happy bunny
<mgdm> I'm getting some as well
<mgdm> more, of late
<MartijnVdS> aren't spam texts regulated/forbidden in the UK?
<MartijnVdS> They are in .nl -- I can get you a Dutch prepaid SIM if you want :)
<ali1234> yes
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: "yes, they aren't"?
<ali1234> no they is
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: or "yes, they are, but spammers don't care"
<AlanBell> http://www.kolbisneat.com/spaceoddity.htm how cool is that!
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: is that the comic strip version?
<MartijnVdS> uhr AlanBell
<AlanBell> childrens book version
<MartijnVdS> yeah it's amazing.. next up: Peter Schilling's follow-up song? :)
<MartijnVdS> (Major Tom - Coming Home)
<MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_Tom_(Coming_Home)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Ubuntu UK Podcast] S04E14  Revelations - http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2011/08/31/s04e14-revelations/
<MartijnVdS> Gah! So many podcasts.. I'm trying to listen to an audio book people
<MartijnVdS> (ok, 7 of them)
<AlanBell> offspring wants this as a first camera/camcorder http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/5635535.htm?CMPID=GS001&_$ja=tsid:11527|cc:|prd:5635535|cat:photography+%2F+camcorders+and+accessories+%2F+camcorders+%2F
<AlanBell> cheap and cheerful, too cheap?
<MartijnVdS> Vivitar used to make cheap film cameras
<MartijnVdS> it won't be HD :)
<AlanBell> it is HD
<AlanBell> 720p
<Myrtti> aw, that url is so fail :-(
<MartijnVdS> yeah 720p and shaky on horizontal pans :)
<MartijnVdS> my 1080p camera gives very wobbly image on horizontal pans
<AlanBell> http://bit.ly/pHs5Oa
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONE3uS8uaWk for example
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: it won't be completely bad, but it won't be amazing either
<AlanBell> that is pretty acceptable
<AlanBell> it also does 8MP stills
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I have one of these (never use it..) http://camcorder.jvc.com/product.jsp?modelId=MODL028582&pathId=58&page=10
<AlanBell> she initially wanted a camera but then we figured for about the same price as a camera that can do a bit of video you can get a camcorder that can do stills
<AlanBell> and it is red
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: A cheap Canon Ixus is usually better than this though
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: and they come in PINK
<AlanBell> cheap Ixus???
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: yes.. not THAT cheap, mind
<MartijnVdS> but not much more expensive
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fuji-FinePix-AV110-Digital-Camera/dp/B0043L2QS6
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: old model Fuji Finepix, in pink :)
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: Â£55
<MartijnVdS> Not a Canon Ixus, but close enough :)
<AlanBell> I think that is the camera she was looking at initially
<MartijnVdS> it does HD video as well
<AlanBell> Ixus looks to be Â£130+
<MartijnVdS> yeah I see it :(
<MartijnVdS> I never use my HD camcorder thingy
<MartijnVdS> I'm more a photo person
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: anyway.. Â£5 price diff for Vivitar vs Fuji, I'd go for Fuji :)
<AlanBell> yeah, I find my camcorder does decent pictures (good carl zeis lens) but my camera does rubbish video
<MartijnVdS> If I ever get money again, I'm buying a new SLR body that does 1080p vidoe
<MartijnVdS> video*
<MartijnVdS> Because I already have the lenses and everything
<gord> my camera does good video but its pictures aren't as nice =\
<MartijnVdS> I once lent my old SLR body (+ a lens) to my 10-year old cousin - he had lots of fun exploring the features :)
<AlanBell> I once lent my compact camera to my cousin (aged 10ish) at the end of a wedding
<AlanBell> he snapped loads of pictures, then to be nice deleted them all . . .
<MartijnVdS> awww :)
<AlanBell> delete all wasn't what I wanted him to do at that point
<AlanBell> however the bride and groom in question are now divorced so nothing of value was lost!
<MartijnVdS> :)
<MartijnVdS> Time for zzzs
<MartijnVdS> \o
<AlanBell> o/
<diplo> evening guys
<diplo> Having a totally dumb evening
<diplo> http://pastebin.ubuntu-uk.org/120070
<diplo> Want to use same structure from {line} in the $to field
<diplo> Someone enlighten me before I cry, something so simple and I can't think
<james_w> diplo, you mean you want to add ${line} to the path in ${to}
<james_w> ?
<diplo> yeah
<diplo> Basically copy files from a nas box to a usb hdd
<diplo> And want structure from nas to go on usb
<james_w> cp "${line}" "${to}/${line}"
<diplo> Sure I just did that
 * diplo trys again
<diplo> Ta
<james_w> but you likely are going to need a mkdir too
<diplo> cp -R ? Wouldn't that recreate dirs ?
<james_w> and I don't know if rsync has a mode to take filenames from a file
<diplo> ooooh
<james_w> if you try and copy a/b/c and a/b/ doesn't exist on the target it will error
<james_w> so you would need a mkdir target/a/b/ first
<diplo> Actually need to take input from this text file
<diplo> I might just copy and not worry about structure, only a few hundred files
<diplo> Could sort it out after
<james_w> rsync --files-from=filename.txt
<james_w> that might be a better basis to work from
<diplo> Oooh, good thinking
 * diplo checks rsync is on box
<diplo> See told you i wasn't doing well this morning
<diplo> evening*!!!!!!
<james_w> rsync -vva --files-from=filename.txt $to
<diplo> lol I ought to give up already
<james_w> or something
<james_w> I've only used rsync once :-)
<diplo> I use it all the time, just having a blond evening!
<diplo> Seems to be doing it james_w thanks!
<diplo> Copying first file now, structure has already been created
<diplo> Totally didn't think about rsync :/
<diplo> quiet in here tonight
<ikonia-remote> yes
<diplo> Suppose I'll see if anything good on TV
<directhex> well i've built a libvorbis for webos. but glib is not cooperating
<ikonia-remote> not bad
<popey> moo
 * popey is online from a field again
<diplo> lol, is that so the wife doesn't see you doing it ?
<popey> heh
<popey> if she looked out the window she'd see
<popey> its the only place I can get reception on my dongle
<diplo> :(
<diplo> Extension lead with your router :)
<popey> i wish :D
<popey> 50 yds or so
<diplo> Oh :/ - Anyhoo nice holiday ?
<popey> yeah
<popey> lovely clear nigt
<ikonia-remote> when are you back ?
<popey> saturday
<ikonia-remote> few days left then, nice
<diplo> Old school tonight, listening to Cinderella.. it's great better than telly!
<popey> right, podcast downloaded, off to listen in bed
<popey> nn all
<diplo> gn popey
<AlanBell> o/
<diplo> evening
<bigcalm> I'm missing out on the chatter by working late yet again
<bigcalm> Hi kids
<diplo> dead in here bigcalm, not missing much
 * bigcalm ponders putting his laptop on the windowsill and using synergy for a 5 screen desktop
<bigcalm> I like being silly
<bigcalm> Though, while the HTML Validator plugin for FireFox doesn't work on any of my Linux systems, it'll have to be used on the laptop booted into windows :S
<diplo> heh, keep meaning to give synergy another try
<diplo> not tried it in years
<bigcalm> I can't live without it
<diplo> I use mine ALL the time
<bigcalm> Works flawlessly between Linux, Windows & Mac
<marsling> ive just got a new 2TB drive, ive formatted to XFS, and it doesnt seem to auto-mount, can someoen help me ?
<bigcalm> Do you have the 'auto' option in the fstab line?
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alan Bell] Going dotty - http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2011/08/31/going-dotty/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=going-dotty
<bigcalm> !msg | marsling
<lubotu3> marsling: Please ask your questions in the channel so that other people can help you, benefit from your questions and answers, and ensure that you're not getting bad advice. Please note that some people find it rude to be sent a PM without being asked for permission to do so first.
<bigcalm> ...
<bigcalm> https://plus.google.com/u/0/113834766641843352499/posts/ZfAXJ1PDpWz
<buzz_> hi
<bigcalm> Sleep time
<buzz_> noo
<buzz_> sleep is bad
<psutton> lol
<zleap> coffee is good if sleep is bad then
<buzz_> http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2377/2422282465_e000f55c3e.jpg is good
<buzz_> *burp*
<zleap> that looks familar
<buzz_> cracking beer that
<zleap> devon real ail perhaps
<buzz_> yorkshire
<zleap> ah
<zleap> sorry
<buzz_> well i just got it from me local supermarket of course. daan souf
<zleap> k
#ubuntu-uk 2011-09-01
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alan Bell] The science of meetings - http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2011/09/01/the-science-of-meetings/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=the-science-of-meetings
<DJones> Morning all
<daubers> Morning
<diplo> Morning all
<AlanBell> morning peeps
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning and good day :-)
<daubers> o/
<MooDoo> hello all
<Hippychick> morning
<MartijnVdS> \o
<bigcalm> Morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> Version 6 of FF?
 * bigcalm kicks Moz
<JamesTait> Good morning!
<Lcawte> Old news... :P
<oimon> kernel.org hacked?
<dwatkins> I suspect they're trying to race up to version 2010.
<jpds> oimon: Cracked, thank you
<oimon> dwatkins: MS would be on version 2013 to make it sound modern
<oimon> jpds: hacked every day :D
<MooDoo> cracked cracked cracked, for all that is holy, cracked.....:)
<oimon> let's compromise on "compromised "
<oimon> :)
<MooDoo> accepted :)
<bigcalm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zE5PGeh2K9k
<DJones> bigcalm: I hope that video doesn't involve you & tutu's after your twitter status
<bigcalm> Hehe :P
<bigcalm> No, you're safe
 * DJones clicks link then
<DJones> That looks like something for daubers to make to go with his electronic door bell
<HazRPG> goooooooood mornin' ma IT ninjas!
<oimon> hmmm. if my wife says that she told me something, but i have no recollection of it, i wonder what's more likely. (1) she never told me (2) i wasn't listening (3) 1 & 2 probably occur in roughly equal amounts
<AlanBell> doesn't matter in the end, it will be your fault
<oimon> seems to be , yes
<oimon> why is that?
<freakyclown> (1) always happened..its your fault for not hearing her thoughts
<MooDoo> oimon: women are always right, even when they are wrong they are right, have you not learnt this yet?
<AlanBell> one of life's mysteries
<oimon> seems a bit unfair to me
<AlanBell> anyhow, this happy hour thing in London
<oimon> when did a man ever get in a sulk about anything (other than dropping a phone down teh toilet)
<oimon> or losing a game of sport
<AlanBell> ^^ right there
<AlanBell> so, London, pub in a few weeks
<AlanBell> it was kind of penciled in for Saturday 17th, however I am not sure about that
<AlanBell> should it be more of a mid-week after work thing?
<christel> no, come visit me at spire clare park on the 17th instead
<christel> you can bring beer
 * christel nods
<BigRedS> I'd like it to be a weekend thing, 'cause I'm only in London at the weekend :)
<BigRedS> but I'm not on that weekend, so that's moot...
<AlanBell> okies, pick a weekend
<AlanBell> christel: that isn't a pub!
<christel> well, we can turn it into a pub for the day
<bigcalm> :D
<christel> ill wake up from surgery and you can all be drunk and entertain me
<AlanBell> :)
<christel> it would be brilliant!
<AlanBell> sounds great
<christel> \o/
<bigcalm> christel: while you're high on pills? :)
<christel> i asked gareth if he'd bring david up when i came out of surgery, and he's all "no, we'll be watching soccer saturday"
<christel> "thanks"
<AlanBell> wrong answer /o\
<daubers> \o/ bikes mended
<oimon> there must be an easier way of making changes to puppet config..this is scary :(
<christel> bigcalm: whenever am i not? :P
<Dave2> oimon: manage it with puppet.
<HazRPG> oimon: agrees with others, women are always right... no ifs or buts about it... they'll be right regardless...
<oimon> i'm scared that a mistake would get sent to all puppet clients
<Dave2> We had our dev systems...accidentally pick up some production puppet config. We couldn't log in to our test systems any more. That was fun.
<HazRPG> oimon: for me, it really sucks, because I've been known to talk in my sleep sometimes (even if I look away and conscious...) and some of my ex's have used that to their advantage (sadly)... and thing is, I don't know if they actually are using it to their advantage - since I don't recall any sleep-based conversations at all!
<oimon> i usually just say om nom nom nom in my sleep
<Hippychick> my brother used to talk in his sleep, i recall one time him going on about being a girl or somthing...
<Hippychick> the hotel had made a mistake with the rooms and we had to share... :(
<freakyclown> Hippychick: go read sleeptalkingman
<freakyclown> or rather listen to rather than read
<daubers> AlanBell: Septembers not great for me (had to pay for lots of car/bike stuff :( ) but if this one is this month, I shall make a concerted effort to make the next one
<AlanBell> the idea is that they will bounce about all over the place, so missing one is fine, there will  be more
<HazRPG> I'm really intrigued by the news of what happened to kernel.org
<AlanBell> how about 3 weeks today, 22nd September
<diplo> HazRPG: Seems some one got some ones credentials and went from there
<diplo> I doubt until they find/fix any issues will they release full details
<AlanBell> a Thursday evening post-work pub meet in London
<MooDoo> HazRPG: there is site news on the site now if you've not seen it
<AlanBell> pretty near to Millbank
<HazRPG> Hippychick: worst thing is, I can physically move around sometimes and do things and completely forget when I wake up properly - its freaky
<HazRPG> doesn't happen often, buts its scary that it happens at all
<freakyclown> HazRPG: my g/f is like that..will seem to be awake and alert and can converse
<freakyclown> but its generally about jibberish
<HazRPG> MooDoo: yeah I was reading it ^_^
<freakyclown> like rats or spiders
<HazRPG> MooDoo: but I want to know how they actually got in, more than what they did
<MooDoo> ah
<AlanBell> so the Canonical peeps have a few weeks to arange an important reason to visit HQ that happens to be on the 22nd
<oimon> HazRPG: i read it was via a compromised account, then an unknown root hack
<HazRPG> freakyclown: heh, interesting ^_^
<oimon> freakyclown: my wife does the spiders thing
<oimon> and thinks she sees them in the room. we have to turn on lights etc
<freakyclown> yeah same thing
<freakyclown> i think its eyelashes or something they see
<oimon> freakyclown: it's imaginary :D
<freakyclown> that or their fricken mental
<HazRPG> my ex (still great friends - one that got away, bla bla bla), just as she nods off... she'll talk gibberish too
<oimon> does your gf have dyslexia or chronic fatigue?
<freakyclown> nope
<oimon> ok just checking
<freakyclown> shes just batshit crazy
<oimon> i always jump up and say there,there, it's ok..no spiders etc
<HazRPG> oimon: ^_^
<oimon> but i couldn't ever live in australia, because i'd be the one jumping up
<oimon> because there really MIGHT be spiders
<HazRPG> oimon: esp, if it was a black widow!
<freakyclown> im always tempted to just roll with it and start screaming and going "omg spiders their all over me aggghhh" and run out the room
<HazRPG> oimon: that would scare the living crap out of me!
<oimon> or the red back ..teeny weeny thing that kills you
<diplo> Dont want to live at my house, loads of spiders!
<HazRPG> oimon: yeah, sorry that was the one that I meant
<oimon> i learnt about it on Home and Away lol
<freakyclown> its the stingrays you want to look out for!
<oimon> i'm staying in UK
<HazRPG> heh
<freakyclown> sneaking into your bed
<oimon> it would turn me OCD...checking shoes every 5 seconds
<HazRPG> you you really want to get scared of spiders, live in saudi... those things are friggin' huge!
<HazRPG> if you*
<freakyclown> ahah those sand spiders?
<oimon> ewww
<HazRPG> desert spiders
<HazRPG> yeahs
<HazRPG> big scary mf's!
<oimon> just about to rollout my new SL6.1 distro :D
<freakyclown> same as coconut crabs
 * AlanBell suggests moving this to #ubuntu-spiders
<HazRPG> make anyone poop themselves!
<freakyclown> those are friggen HUGE
<bigcalm> :(
<HazRPG> freakyclown: haha, did you google them?
<freakyclown> ?
<HazRPG> desert spiders
<freakyclown> nah i knew of them already
 * bigcalm does some work until the talk of spiders has gone away
<freakyclown> there was a great forced perspective photo of a camel spiders in iraq
<freakyclown> made them look about 3 foot wide
 * DJones hands bigcalm a rolled up newspaper
<freakyclown> http://www.camelspiders.net/large-camel-spider-picture.htm
<oimon> with a flame thrower
<oimon> too many legs surely?
<oimon> or is that 2 of them?
<freakyclown> thats two of them
<oimon> ewwwww
<HazRPG> heh: http://youtu.be/_k5j6IuHGxA?t=1m
 * oimon hides until spiders have gone
<HazRPG> I think those boys had way too much fun out there ^_^
<oimon> this isn't helpful
<HazRPG> heh, I think we've freaked too many people out with the spider talk ^_^
<DJones> Spider talk has upset freenode
<gord> so not "camel spider attacks infant" like my firefox tab said then
<gord> disappointing
<HazRPG> http://spiderman-web.com/spiderman/wallpaper/80s_spiderman/spidey.jpg
<HazRPG> there, that's a friendly spider ^_^
<AlanBell> http://ubuntu-uk.org/2011/09/01/ubuntu-uk-happy-hour/
<AlanBell> could some people proof read that please
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<BigRedS> AlanBell: "its up to you." at the end of the first para should be "it's"
<freakyclown> AlanBell: looks good but maybe say something about how its more of a social meet and greet (to put faces to names) rather than a techy geek fest with laptops and talks?
<jml> hey, sorry if this is off topic
<BigRedS> AlanBell: the Cask is in Pimlico, not Pimplico
<jml> but my laptop isn't suspending reliably in oneiric any more. how can I report this usefully?
<BigRedS> but I might start calling it pimplico :)
<jml> BigRedS: *yes*
<AlanBell> lol,
<bigcalm> My machine has recently started rebooting instead of shutting down, sleeping or hibernating :S
<DJones> jml: Might be worth asking in #ubuntu+1 with it being a omeiric query, as the testing version support channel, there may already be a solution that they're aware of, at least they should be able to help you diagnose it
<jml> DJones: OK. Will try that.
<jml> DJones: I've historically had poor luck there, though.
<DJones> jml: Its quite often quiet, but once it gets going they're very helpful, if you don't get an answer there, come back here though and ask
<jml> DJones: will do.
<DJones> I haven't tried it yet, so I'd be no help :)
 * MooDoo is getting sick of people asking him if he's irish....FFS it's only an old style ireland rugger top :S
<daubers> MooDoo: They'll generally ask twice, to be sure to be sure
<MooDoo> lol
 * daubers gets his coat
<bigcalm> daubers: heheh :)
<Hippychick> MooDoo, are you irish? *run, hide*
<MooDoo> grrrrrrrrrrr
<MooDoo> god i hope czajkowski isn't here ;)
<bigcalm> She's just returned to London, so you're safe until she reads the scroll
<MooDoo> phew
 * AlanBell tweets and facebooks and plusses the happy hour
 * daubers retweets and replusses
<Hippychick> i like the sound of the happy hour stuff, i just dont know of any good pubs near me
<daubers> Hippychick: Spoons'll do
<daubers> Hippychick: Or a nice-ish restaurant
<AlanBell> Hippychick: where is near you?
<Hippychick> maidstone, kent
<Hippychick> not long moved there, so not sure whats about
<freakyclown> arrange a chunnel lug!
<AlanBell> well we have Canterbury on the list
<AlanBell> and Maidstone into London isn't much of a stretch
<freakyclown> back when i was a kid we used to have london2600 hacker meets on the circle line train with battery powered hubs etc
<freakyclown> train meets can be fun :)
<AlanBell> can't drink on the tube any more
<AlanBell> however I do want to put a RAT on the list
<Hippychick> yeah, my biggest problem at the moment is work, takes me and hour-hour and a half to get home at the moment
<AlanBell> http://www.watercressline.co.uk/Our-Services/RAT
<daubers> That was quite enjoyable last time
<AlanBell> when they open up tickets for next year I will propose a date to add to the happy hour schedule
<daubers> \o/
<AlanBell> http://twitter.com/#!/CASK_PUB_SW1/status/109210019987333120
<HazRPG> hmm, don't know if I like this news: http://torrentfreak.com/government-bans-use-of-encryption-and-vpns-110831/
<bigcalm> Which gov?
<MartijnVdS> Pakistan
<bigcalm> :(
<bigcalm> Good luck enforcing that
<AlanBell> heh, can't see that lasting long
<AlanBell> dear ISPs, have any of your customers made an HTTPS connection to any website . . .
<bigcalm> And the gov are to be completely unencrypted as well eh?
<bigcalm> AlanBell: could redirect all port 443 traffic to 80 at an ISP level
<MooDoo> sounds a good idea.....anyone want my bank details now?
<freakyclown> tbh most governments just put a man in the middle box and spoof the secure parts
<oimon> sounds like they've been reading cory doctorow's little brother book
<freakyclown> i attended a talk by a er.. let call him a rebel..and how he and his friends circumvented such things..very very scary stuff
<bigcalm> freakyclown: your talk was scary stuff itself :P
<freakyclown> bigcalm: you should hear the stuff i cant talk about :P
<oimon> freakyclown: i watched your rather decent talk yesterday. can you elaborate on that cropped image example? i didn't get it
<bigcalm> oimon: which bit?
<HazRPG> oimon: I liked that book ^_^, was an interesting read to say the least
<AlanBell> the thumbnail of the original in the cropped image file
<oimon> when he showed a cropped image and then said lots of info was stored in the jpg, then showed the full size image
<oimon> where did the full size one come from
<BigRedS> oimon: it's thethumbnail
<bigcalm> I tried to explain, to my better half, the use of looking at the red/green direction to see where a bit of the image was copied from.
<AlanBell> chromatic abberation was amazing
<HazRPG> bigcalm: I'm sure the government will still be using secure connections, in the article it states "Anyone wishing to carry on using them must get official permission." - so I'm sure the government will easily be exempt from this ban.
<bigcalm> Thank you, couldn't think of the word
<oimon> sorry , i'm being dumb re: the thumbnail, still don't get it
<HazRPG> freakyclown: which talk did you do?
<AlanBell> oimon: the camera saves the picture and the thumbnail. The software that does the cropping updates the image but fails to update the thumbnail because it is buggy
<oimon> oic
<AlanBell> so the thumbnail of the full image remains untouched and forgotten about
<oimon> saved inside the jpeg?
<bigcalm> I like that everybody but freakyclown is answering oimon's question which was directed at freakyclown :)
<bigcalm> Yes
<BigRedS> I've been pondering ways of fooling exactly that. Using freakyclown's other scripts to find alternative original images, and putting thumbnails of *those* in
<oimon> what's the sw called again? cli_track?
<HazRPG> am I missing something here o.O?
<freakyclown> wtf i step away for two minutes to talk about firewall configs and im ACTUALLY needed!
<freakyclown> CliTrack btw
<freakyclown> and yes @ thumbnail stuff
<oimon> ftw :P
<freakyclown> and no its not released (yet)
<oimon> by all accounts it was one of the best talks of the weekend
<freakyclown> and it was Digital Image Forensics (2)
<freakyclown> thank you :)
<bigcalm> HazRPG: https://blip.tv/episode/5487612
<oimon> i was in another talk at the time and twitter was lit up
<freakyclown> :D
<oimon> i reckon you could do a 2 hr session with all that material
<freakyclown> oddly i keep getting asked to do a talk on lockpicking next year... far far too many people saw that slide
<freakyclown> and ive done image forensics stuff for two oggcamps now - need to change it up ithink
<oimon> lol, i'm sure lockpicking is on a need to know basis and that's why we pay locksmiths
<freakyclown> nah its a massive thing for hobbiests
<freakyclown> i was asked to run a workshop this week on it for a security conference in london - but alas work gets in the way sometimes
<freakyclown> a talk at oggcamp might kick me back into writing more of my book too :(
<oimon> "how to stalk women on the internet"?
<freakyclown> oimon: ive covered that twice now ;)
<freakyclown> people are learning from it and not posting pictures online
<MartijnVdS> .. for dummies?
<MartijnVdS> :P
<bigcalm> freakyclown: have you contacted the lady in the USA that you used in your recent talk at oggcamp?
<freakyclown> hannah?
<bigcalm> If that was her name, yes :)
<freakyclown> ithink i mentioned in sundays talk ;)
<oimon> was the sunday talk the same one?
<freakyclown> yeah
<bigcalm> I attended Saturday's talk
<freakyclown> yet people still came to see it again!
<freakyclown> crazy!
<oimon> i attended a couple of duff ones on sat
<oimon> and also good ones :D
<freakyclown> i attended mine...it sucked LOL
<oimon> u had heard it before? :P
<freakyclown> yeah so obvious where it was going too!
<oimon> the location data is on;y put in if that option is selected on your phone though,right?
<freakyclown> alot are on by default though
<MartijnVdS> freakyclown: alot? http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html
 * bigcalm grins
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: I was thinking the same but held my tongue for a change :P
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: :)
<bigcalm> Looks like the drawing style of the Oatmeal
<HazRPG> bigcalm: cheers :)
<HazRPG> freakyclown: haha love your intro ^_^
<bigcalm> Gah, nearly lunch time. This week has slipped away from me
<Hippychick> bigcalm, luckey you, i keep thinig its friday then realising its not... :(
<daubers> Hippychick: That's a good thing :( I've got about a weeks work to do in the next 3 days
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: she got the vivitar camcorder in the end, preferred the shape to hold
<Hippychick> daubers, ive got 55 support jobs which are suppost to be closed by end of day tomorrow
<Hippychick> somehow i dont think its going to happen
<czajkowski> MooDoo: I will throttle you
<bigcalm> czajkowski: welcome back :)
<czajkowski> cheers
<MooDoo> czajkowski: oh how i've missed you xx
<AlanBell> o/ czajkowski
<AlanBell> moved the happy hour
<ubuntuuk-planet> [AlanBell] Ubuntu-UK Happy Hour - http://ubuntu-uk.org/2011/09/01/ubuntu-uk-happy-hour/
<AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1257/detail/
<HazRPG> freakyclown: haha, love the talk dude ^_^
<freakyclown> thank you :)
<HazRPG> most epic I must say :)
<HazRPG> great work with the tool too, I do like forensics... kept meaning to do some work with jpeg's myself, because the number of people that don't realise how flawed it is... is unreal!
<brobostigon> afternoonings HazRPG :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: afternoon squire ^_^
<freakyclown> right i have to go break into a building - will chat later HazRPG
<HazRPG> o.O
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: ah, that's an important thing to consider as well :)
<HazRPG> sure, gl;hf dude
<freakyclown> lol dont worry its my job!
<HazRPG> freakyclown: I figured ;)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: "lf;dy"? :)
<HazRPG> gl;hf - good luck, have fun
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: what's lf;dy?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: live fast, die young :)
<HazRPG> ah
<MooDoo> go straight ahead very fast, if anything gets in your way....TURN!
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A1037927
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: heh
<oimon> ooh oneiric beta1 out today innit?
<AlanBell> yup
<HazRPG> oimon: I think so yeah
 * oimon updates
<HazRPG> hmm, that brings me to... what's happening with the release of oneiric?
<HazRPG> as in, release party wise
<MartijnVdS> Lots of booze?
<HazRPG> aside from that :P
<HazRPG> time/location/etc
<HazRPG> (would like to attend some sort of open-sourced thing before I decide to move off to Egypt)
<MartijnVdS> ah, they don't have booze there, do they? :)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: i was thinking about a release party, but, i feel somewhat discouraged.
<andylockran> pft
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: heh, they do... but its more of a black hole for things open-source there ^_^
<andylockran> DDoS Mitigation Strategies !FTW
<AlanBell> HazRPG: there will be one in London as per usual
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Start up your own open-source lab there :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Trust me, that is part of the plan ;)
<AlanBell> which will be the normal Canonical nominate a pub at the last minute and some people turn up kind of thing
<HazRPG> I know there's already a hackerspace in Cairo... so that should ease things a bit :)
<HazRPG> part of my "moving to egypt" plan, is to try and get open-source more wide-spread there
<AlanBell> we could do a separate event when the CDs arrive
<AlanBell> some other teams distribute *all* their CD allocation within a week
<HazRPG> most of the IT people I know from Egypt, generally associate Linux and things open-source as being "research" based and "scary looking" just because that's what they used for uni-based stuff
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: but it IS scary-looking :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: If you've ever looked at research codebases, yes this is correct! And this is what the IT guys over there seem to associate with open-source, because that's what they've used/seen... they don't seem to realise the other stuff that happens around them
<HazRPG> e.g. there's this one lass I know out there, that prefers Windows to Linux because she constantly had to fight with trying to compile the codebase they had... so she hates linux for that reason alone...
<HazRPG> I tried to show her some videos of my desktop, and she didn't seem to believe that was actually a linux-based distro that I was using
<HazRPG> so plan is: get some open-source support going :)
<MartijnVdS> didn't you convert  your family to Linux? :)
<HazRPG> business plan: introduce and teach people about IT, get some open-source awareness out there... and see what happens. That's my aim :)
<andylockran> and target the government too
<andylockran> fresh govt, fresh ideas
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I've converted my aunt to ubuntu, so yeah... the rest are interested, but too scare to covert because they think it will be too hard to learn
<HazRPG> andylockran: hopefully :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: to be honest I don't blame them... my arabic reading skills are poor at best, however the translation for ubuntu is just awful!
<HazRPG> My aunt is really good at both English & Arabic... and she teaches Music and some IT stuff in a school... which is why she was easy to convert... however she found it odd the way Ubuntu translates some of the stuff in the O/S
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: time to brush up on  your arabic, and improve the translations
<HazRPG> Compared to the English version of Ubuntu, the Arabic one seems to be wayyyyy too formal
<HazRPG> And sort of incomplete in places...
<HazRPG> (me and my aunt was going through some of the translation scripts on launchpad)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Hopefully. :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Either alone, or with some help from my Aunt. :)
<oimon> postie just delivered my touchpad case and the new issue of linux magazine :) happy days
<HazRPG> Much like how there's a few different English localisations... I want to see if I can get an Egyptian Arabic one... since they're terminology for stuff is so different to traditional arabic, which is what Ubuntu uses for the Arabic stuff
<HazRPG> wow, seems only 25% of ubuntu is translated
<HazRPG> oimon: nice :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Perfect example of bad translation: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+source/gfxboot-theme-ubuntu/+pots/bootloader/ar/+translate
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: I can't read Arabic at all
<HazRPG> OK has been translated to "Hasna" which means "Well"
<HazRPG> the suggestions are much better, and are common in both Mac and Windows
<oimon> hasna in scottish means "has not"
<HazRPG> e.g. first one "na'am" which means "yes" or "okay" depending on context
<HazRPG> oimon: I know :P
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: "If you must", in British English?
<HazRPG> 2nd suggestion: "Muafa'" or "Muafak" (depending on dialect, Egyptians don't pounce the "Kof" letter): means "in agreement" or "okay" again depending on context - which I think is what Windows uses
<HazRPG> just because "Na'am" is more used as "Yes"
 * czajkowski wallops TheOpenSourcerer 
<TheOpenSourcerer> Afternoon czajkowski :-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> How was the salmon ;-)
<oimon> maybe shouldn't have bought an ipad case for it :-S
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: no idea I dont eat salmon but it was purchased
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Just put a translation in that was missing ^_^
<HazRPG> as a suggestion
<oimon> HazRPG: how's your php code?
<HazRPG> oimon: hmm?
<HazRPG> how'd ya mean?
<oimon> just happened to be looking at http://jobs.guardian.co.uk/job/4345493/php-developer-arabic-speaking/
<HazRPG> ah
<HazRPG> heh, I like how it says "Arabic speaking" that would be prefect for me... however my reading and writing is poor ^_^
<oimon> that wouldn't necessarily get picked up at interview ;)
<HazRPG> true :P
<MartijnVdS> "I'll wing it"
<oimon> actually it's not a requirement either
<oimon> are you working/looking for work ?
<MooDoo> who isn't looking for work ;)
<HazRPG> technically I'm self-employed at the moment, just because its easier than trying to find work
<oimon> i'll have an opening for a Linux sysadmin soon hopefully
<HazRPG> however, planning on moving to Egypt after I finish the last set of projects I have lined up to look after my mum (had a nasty accident earlier in the year she's still recovering from), and because she wants to set up a business and wants me to be the IT man of the whole thing
<MooDoo> oimon: where are you based?
<oimon> London  E1
<HazRPG> I feel like I'm being a bit of an idiot at the moment lol
<MooDoo> HazRPG: i had that feeling this morning
<HazRPG> the one time I'm not looking for word (not actively, because I have ideas/plans in mind)... is when jobs are being thrown my way
<HazRPG> s/word/work/*
<oimon> i have a duty to my wife + son to bring home the bacon
<MooDoo> snap!
<Hippychick> mmmm bacon!
 * Hippychick wants bacon now...
<MooDoo> bacon, pancakes and maple syrup
<Hippychick> yum
<gord> you all suck
<HazRPG> my dad offered me a Web Manager/Developer job up in saudi about a week ago, probably not as well paid as the one you mentioned... however taxes are less, and cost of living is cheaper...
<gord> do not mention bacon unless i have bacon
<oimon> i'm increasingly getting stitched up in my job, and if i was single i would have moved already
<MooDoo> gord: just blame Hippychick
<HazRPG> MooDoo: o'rly? Why did you feel that way this morning?
<gord> MooDoo, i blame you!
<Hippychick> me? :(
<MooDoo> HazRPG: kept stalling my motorbike, forgot umpteen passwords, couldn't remember simple linux commands, kept trying to restart httpd when i'm on a debian box....sigh
 * oimon crosses MooDoo off the shortlist
<MooDoo> oimon: oi ;)
<MooDoo> Hippychick: mwah! :)
<Hippychick> eeep, boss has just come in
<HazRPG> oimon: haha
<oimon> quick,hide!
<HazRPG> MooDoo: oopsie!
<HazRPG> MooDoo: Just one of those days?
<MooDoo> Hippychick: update table set field = 'boss is cool' where id = 52 limit 1;  isn't that what you were after?
<MooDoo> HazRPG: i'm ok now, think it's baby brain as in i want my new one NOW! :)
<oimon> 13:37
<oimon> btw the latest issue of linux journal is free and worth reading
<oimon> http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/free-sample-issue
<oimon> actually i found a page that had the pdf on for easier reading
<HazRPG> MooDoo: ah, that makes sense
<diplo> top right, download ?
<gord> sure is hard to get work done when you have a cat begging you to play with it
<HazRPG> score
<HazRPG> gord: work from home too?
<gord> yup
<MooDoo> i would love to work from home :S
<gord> it comes with a lot of benefits, but its not as amazing as you might think it is ;)
<gord> i sometimes go days without seeing another person
<MooDoo> gord: that's ok with me, i'm a loner ;)
<MooDoo> no loner, not loser ;)
<gord> its okay for me too ;) cats make perfect human replacements
<gord> also my stuffed animals
<gord> and that one wookie on my desk
<gord> senior wookie
<MooDoo> gord: as long i have some noise in the background, music or the like i'd be fine :)
<oimon> http://monstersofgrok.com/
<HazRPG> gord: dude, I work from home... so I know the feeling
<HazRPG> MooDoo: music works for me too
<bigcalm> I work from home and long for a cat to keep me company
<gord> so get a cat?
<gord> lots of them at your local shelter looking for a good home
<bigcalm> gord: renting and land lady says no
<gord> claim its a plant
<MartijnVdS> or a vegetable
<bigcalm> Plus, fiancÃ©(e?) and I like our freedom too much
<shauno> bonus points if you manage to convince the landlady that she's a vegetable
<bigcalm> I can never remember if it's with or without the e on the end for a lady
<daubers> landlords/ladies love it when you get a cat and then say it's because they refused to deal with the rats
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> I don't think I've seen or heard from our land lady at all this year
<bigcalm> Just how I like it
<Myrtti> I've been renting my place since January 2007 and I've not heard of my landlord since he showed me the place before signing the rental agreement
<Myrtti> hm
<Myrtti> since January 2008 rather
 * daubers is still trying to buy a house. Stupid mortgage lenders silly terms
<bigcalm> We'd like to buy this house some day. No rush though :)
<zleap> hi
<zleap> i am trying to look up how to add my user to www-data so I have write access to /var/www to test my website locally
<bigcalm> zleap: add your user to the www-data group and then chown the files you want to alter
<zleap> so useradd -G groupname  username
<oimon> cats don't have owners
<bigcalm> zleap: quite possibly. It's been a while since I last did things with groups. Though, once you have updated the groups your user is in, you will need to logout/in or open a new terminal to see the change
<bigcalm> oimon: they have staff
<oimon> bigcalm: yep, and often we would "own" cats that were also owned by other neighbours...they saw a neoighbourhood they liked and squatted for a whle
<oimon> so any query from a  landlady would be answered with "it's a neighbours cat i think. it keeps sneaking in here though"
<bigcalm> Heh
<zleap> ok thanks
<daubers> I think I should probably by stock in any cable suppliers in the area when I finally buy my house. The amount of ethernet I'm thinking of running around with poe for sensor type stuff means I should be onto a winner!
<bigcalm> zleap: you're welcome and good luck :)
<bigcalm> power over ethernet?
<zleap> ok according to users and groups I should bea member of www-data
<bigcalm> I thought it was the other way around
<zleap> so do i need to change the ownership of /www in /var so i owni t
<bigcalm> NO
<bigcalm> Oops
<bigcalm> No
<zleap> ah hang on  i need to read the permissions again
<bigcalm> I meant that you will need to "chown :www-data foo.txt" if you create a new file
<bigcalm> 664 for non exec files
<bigcalm> 775 for dirs
<zleap> ok
<zleap> right now the www directory is owned by root not www-data
<bigcalm> zleap: what user and group does apache have set in the conf?
<zleap> not sure
<zleap> cd /etc
<zleap> ls -l
<bigcalm> :D
<bigcalm> w/w? :P
<zleap> where is the conf file
<bigcalm> It's /etc/apache2/apache2.conf
<bigcalm> # These need to be set in /etc/apache2/envvars
<bigcalm> User ${APACHE_RUN_USER}
<bigcalm> Group ${APACHE_RUN_GROUP}
<bigcalm> That's in the file, so look in /etc/apache2/envvars
<zleap> so i edit the 2 lines with the above on
<bigcalm> It doesn't matter that root owns /var/www, that's just the default setup. You can "chown -R www-data:www-data /var/www/"
<bigcalm> No need to edit the apache config at this point, no
<zleap> ok
<KrisDouglas> Hello, is there any reason why ubuntu's graphical performance takes a dive after around 1.5-2 days uptime? My machine starts to respond quite slowly and things like Docky start to scroll as if running on a very old card. (Which my 9600GT isn't)
<zleap> so i cd to /var
<zleap> thebn chwon from there
<bigcalm> zleap: you don't have to. You can use the full path
<zleap> ok
 * bigcalm heads off to the shower
<zleap> ok /www is now owned by www-data to which I an a group member
<HazRPG> hmm my DVD drive is being weird...
<HazRPG> seems to not want to detect any blank discs o.O
<bigcalm> zleap: it doesn't matter who owns /var/www, it's a matter of what the group is set to
<zleap> ok
<bigcalm> So, /var/www could have iain:www-data
<zleap> well i can log in (console) and create a file in there now so I should be able to copy my old site files over
<HazRPG> dmesg says: brasero[24636]: segfault at 4e5f86a6 ip 00007fe3bb12fd21 sp 00007fff378b0340 error 4 in libgobject-2.0.so.0.2600.1[7fe3bb104000+49000]
<HazRPG> that mean anything to anyone?
<daubers> KrisDouglas: Try watching your memory usage? If the machine starts swapping then I'd imagine something like that
<daubers> happening
<KrisDouglas> the machine has 8GB RAM, swap usage has never gone over 232.0kb (0%)
<zleap> ok thanks
<zleap> righti need to get it to parse php properly now i installed the php module
<daubers> KrisDouglas: Anything on top eating CPU?
<KrisDouglas> nothing really chewing cpu, no.
<KrisDouglas> load: 0.65, 0.59, 0.50
<daubers> KrisDouglas: Something using IO a lot maybe?
<KrisDouglas> total disk write while using chromium is peaking at 137K/s, averaging at around 57 K/s
<daubers> How full are your disks?
<HazRPG> stupid cd drive o.O
<daubers> (are you in the last 15% odd)
<KrisDouglas> the most full disk which is primary is at 76%
<KrisDouglas> sorry, 44%
<daubers> In that case..... no idea
<KrisDouglas> Weird isn't it
<KrisDouglas> The machine is theoretically healthy
<daubers> Very odd. Does it go away if you restart X? Or does it still hang around?
<daubers> Oh, and make sure you're getting no I/O errors or anything like that in dmesg
<oimon> KrisDouglas: which version?
<doc__> Is it ok to ask a question about scripting/cron here?
<oimon> $ uptime:  14:36:42 up 40 days, 27 min, 38 users,  load average: 0.44, 0.46, 0.55
<oimon> my desktop seems OK, but had chronic probs with firefox eating RAM, now gone
<KrisDouglas> 11.04, oimon
<oimon> 10.04 here. 11.04 does have an interrupts/power bug though
<KrisDouglas> oimon, I cannot get uptime like that, the performance of my machine becomes unbearable.
<KrisDouglas> oimon, how do you mean/
<KrisDouglas> ?
<oimon> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=ubuntu_natty_power&num=1
<daubers> oimon: That's a kernel issue that anyone using recent kernel versions will suffer (not ubuntu specific)
<oimon> yes, true (probably)
<HazRPG> is there a way of figuring out my I can't use my dvd drive anymore?
<daubers> Someone found where the issue is....
<HazRPG> it was working a moment ago (tried to burn something to it)
<daubers> oimon: http://www.techytalk.info/linux-kernel-2-6-38-2-6-39-power-regression-workaround/ I think
<gord> i love phoronix, but i wish he would actually post bugs
<HazRPG> but brasero just sort of stopping working as it was attempting to burn to it... and then just randomly closed, and now I can't even mount the drive... or do anything with it
<gord> just posting findings on a website does not a fixed OS make
<doc__> touch --date="$adjDate" nextRecordTime..... where $adjDate is a string with a space in it. Running from a terminal is ok but when run from cron everything after the space is ignored... anyone help?
<Myrtti> MOOMINS \o/
<oimon> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/760131
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 760131 in linux (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Power consumption raised significantly in natty" [High,Triaged]
<oimon> this problem for me sets in stone the Vista moniker for Natty
<MartijnVdS> oimon: Ubuntu Vista? :)
<zleap> ok thanks for the help guys,
<zleap> chat later
<ikonia-remote> oimon: that's not a natty issue, it's a kernel issue
<oimon> that's still a natty issue. not canonicals fault necessarily, but still
<ikonia-remote> oimon: it's any distro using that kernel issue
<ikonia-remote> granted it does effect natty, and it's quite shocking this got into production.
<oimon> it doesn't detract from the fact that natty is canonicals vista, (half baked unity etc)
<ikonia-remote> oimon: no it's not
<oimon> i used to upgrade every 6 months on my office pc, but not since 10.04
<BigRedS> what's in that 'etc.'?
<ikonia-remote_> damn connection, sorry
<HazRPG> oimon: I have to agree with you on that one... I use to always update to the beta... but since 10.10, I haven't had the heart to leave 10.10
<HazRPG> I'm still iffy about oneiric
<ikonia-remote_> then don't upgrade ?
<HazRPG> I will have to at some point
<ikonia-remote_> if the distro doesn't meet your needs or software requirements, don't use it, it's that simple
<ikonia-remote_> HazRPG: why ? why will you have to
<HazRPG> overall, ubuntu is still one of the better distros out there
<ikonia-remote_> HazRPG: so ? that doesn't mean you have to upgrade
<HazRPG> 10.10 won't be supported forever
<oimon> yes, although 12.04 will need to be polished
<BigRedS> well, it'll get progressively more difficult to maintain a [working|compatible|secure|stable] system without getting something gnome3
<BigRedS> though, tbh, having unbroken the workspaces model, gnome3's rather nice IME
<ikonia-remote_> HazRPG: no, although 18 months is a reasonable ammount of time to see where the land lies to see if you wish to continue using ubuntu and upgrade, or change distros
<BigRedS> change to what, though?
<BigRedS> if you want not-gnome-3, you're basically looking at Debian
<doc__> #channels
<BigRedS> or perhaps centos
<oimon> what's debian testing using for DE right now?
<BigRedS> and that's only until their next release
<BigRedS> testings' Gnome 2
<ikonia-remote_> BigRedS: centos is not using gnome 3
<BigRedS> ikonia-remote_: yeah, so until the next release of each, centos, scientific or debian is your best bet
<BigRedS> that, or xfce or whatever on whatever distro you like
<oimon> 6 series will get old quickly
<daubers> \o/ U1 broke the office router
<ikonia-remote_> BigRedS: why is that ?
<BigRedS> like I say, outside of Unity, there's nothing particularly weird about natty
<BigRedS> so install XFCE on top and pretend it's gnome 2
<HazRPG> I don't mind gnome3 so much, it does break (in my mind) how I feel a desktop should work, its still one of the better ones out there. However unity on the other hand just feels like its trying to be a Mac, but trying to be Windows, Linux and /other/ all at the same time and breaking all rules on HCI consistency
<oimon> ubuntu is a broad distro and we have the option of all the DEs
<ikonia-remote_> BigRedS: the next release of RHEL will most likley be dropping gnome based on current discussions, or moving to gnome 3 based on the Fedora model at that snapshot in time
<BigRedS> yeah, obviously. Everyone's going to have dropped gnome 2 by their next stable release
<oimon> the next release of RHEL will be in a couple of years time at least
<BigRedS> HazRPG: what's broken? (out of genuine interest, I'm a week and a bit into a gnome3 experiment and it seems pretty workable to me)
<HazRPG> the way I see it, gnome3 is a great improvement (codebase-wise), and I can see lots of lovely features inside of it that I would love using myself... however the only problem is trying to learn/get us to the new workspace way of working
<HazRPG> well for example, I like being able to see my applications running on the window list (or taskbar)
<BigRedS> Ah, see I've installed the extensions to give me four static workspaces, so I can use it like gnome2. And someone else here just uses only one workspace, so he uses it like Gnome2...
<HazRPG> and I like the organised listing of applications in the "applications" menu from gnome2
<BigRedS> ah yeah, there's no real panel analog
<BigRedS> ue
<HazRPG> I love the fact that you can browse for applications in the appmenu, but I don't like how this just replaced the old menu altogether, the search ability should have just been added to it... not completely took over by it
<daubers> I don't mind the loss of the panels too much. more than anything else I used to fill them with rubbish that was more distracting than anything else
<HazRPG> (sorry that should have been "I love the fact that you can /search/ for applications")
<BigRedS> you've got a nearly-menu there with teh categories down the side
<HazRPG> daubers: true, I do the same... however I would still like to be able to see what applications are running at the bottom of my screen, rather than alt+tabbing to see what I have running, or seeing them all on-screen in some sort of weird app mashup
<daubers> HazRPG: Thats why I prefer unity to shell (a little anyway), can just flip the dock open with the win key
<HazRPG> BigRedS: ah, see, that's where HCI comes into this... that now makes it 2 clicks to browse for things, and that's just before you even click on an application... and also assuming you know which category your wanting to look through
<BigRedS> HazRPG: Yeah, but menus are always the slow way to pick something anyway
<BigRedS> I am amused that things appear to *still* be restricted to only being in one category
<HazRPG> heh, true
<BigRedS> so internet-enabled office apps just need to pick one, hence thunderbird being an internet app and evolution being an office one
<HazRPG> the only reason to be able to see things in a menu, is because some applications might not be used often... and one forgets sometimes what he actually has installed
<BigRedS> yeah, in which case this categories thing in that pane is a good substitute
<HazRPG> true
<BigRedS> "I installed that wicked cool video editing thing, what was it again.." sorts of things
<HazRPG> like I said gnome3 is good in that sense
<HazRPG> its just the window-list/taskbar that's going to be hard to get out of the habit of
<BigRedS> ah, I've not used a taskbar in years
<ikonia-remote> HazRPG: who knows that may change as it evolves and matures
<BigRedS> I'm ideally suited for The Modern Desktop TM :)
<ikonia-remote> HazRPG: one of the gnome developers wrote an interesting article on changing things for the sake of trying to be different, it it doesn't work or is not what people need to do their day, there are options
<HazRPG> heh, I usually have about 15 applications running at any one time... alt-tabbing between all of that is not sexy ^_^
<ikonia-remote> HazRPG: I also find that quite frustrating
<BigRedS> HazRPG: Ah, you need to do less work, then :)
<HazRPG> heh
<HazRPG> some things get left on the back-burner sorta speak... I'll open something up, get it running, something job intensive... and leave it be... you can't close it till its done for example... so you continue with something else... and by the end of it... you find you have too much stuff open
<HazRPG> and you think "right I had that open first, that should be done by now" and go to it
<HazRPG> if you can't see it... its hard to find it
<BigRedS> ah yeah
<BigRedS> I do that with shells all the time
<HazRPG> and if its minimised, its even worse, because you just get an application icon instead of a preview... so your not sure if it's the right one until you tab to it
<HazRPG> exactly, see you get what I mean then ^_^
<HazRPG> if it wasn't for stuff like that, then I'd be all for the whole "woo gnome3!"
<HazRPG> rewind time to when I use to have say maybe 2-3 apps running, gnome3 would have been great
<HazRPG> (I still think it would be great - just not realistic :P)
<ikonia-remote> alt-tabbing for application selection isn't reall usable with 2 apps for me
<HazRPG> e.g. I have natty on my laptop, because I'll probably only have a browser running - or maybe a game or film on :P
<ikonia-remote> I want to be able to select what I want
<ikonia-remote> rather than cycle through
<HazRPG> ikonia-remote: it gets worse, I have 2 screens :P
<HazRPG> your not sure which screen your going to be alt-tabbing to
<ikonia-remote> I've not run it dual head I'm assuming the tabbing depends on the screen your on
<HazRPG> nope
 * freakyclown returns
<HazRPG> alt+tabbing (even in gnome3 - tried liveCD) just mashes everything off that workspace
<HazRPG> and since gnome3 will show you several workspaces in the alt+tab, it can be a nightmare
<MartijnVdS> yeah but multi-screen is a power user feature
<ikonia-remote> HazRPG: so it only sees the applications for the workspace (screen) your on
<HazRPG> freakyclown: wb ^_^
<MartijnVdS> and Unity isn't made for power users!
<BigRedS> unity isn't made for *any* users! ;)
<HazRPG> ikonia-remote: close, each workspace still contains 2 screens
<ikonia-remote> HazRPG: ok, I see what you mean now
<ikonia-remote> workspace and screen are two things that make it a tricky conversation to have
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Indeed!
<HazRPG> ikonia-remote: true
<HazRPG> maybe I just need to triple-boot my system, and actually play with gnome3 properly with my development stuff and see if it can actually live with it or not (rather than just basing it on what I've seen on my laptop)
<ikonia-remote> I wonder if part of the reason the windows desktop layout with a task bar that so many other desktops have copied has been like that for so long...because it works
<BigRedS> HazRPG: it's worth doing.
<BigRedS> I disliked it until I actually spent a few days using it
<BigRedS> though you might never get over the taskbar thing
<BigRedS> unless there's a shell extension to fix that
<HazRPG> ikonia-remote: imitation is a form of flattery, or so they say
<bigcalm> "Here are A and B" or "Here is A and B"? If it was just A or B on their own, then I would use "is". But I often fall over on this one
<HazRPG> BigRedS: I think there is a shell extension for it... but I'm not sure
<HazRPG> BigRedS: also, I do use and like gnome3, just don't think I could use it for my regular worky-day-to-day stuff
<BigRedS> HazRPG: yeah, that's *exactly* what I thought until I installed it on my work PC :)
<ikonia-remote> HazRPG: I just wonder if people haven't changed from it because at this moment in time, it's the best working option for the majortiy of users
<HazRPG> BigRedS: I can't get use to unity however, not in the slightest - already hard enough trying to support my sister who uses natty
<HazRPG> ikonia-remote: I would have to agree with that, I believe this is the case for most
<daubers> HazRPG: I found slipping into Unity relativley easy. That might be because I regularly flip between Win/Lin/OSX for work
<HazRPG> ikonia-remote: gotta remember, some do already work in the Unity style of working if they've used Mac's... however Unity != Mac, its just similar in places
<ikonia-remote> HazRPG: then I start to understand what the gnome blog about changing for the sake of trying to be different is about
<daubers> HazRPG: I found it harder working with shell than with unity
<HazRPG> daubers: if your constantly using different things, then I can see how the change was easy :P
<HazRPG> daubers: tried dragging something to the unity bar yet though ;)?
<BigRedS> I found Unity easier to work with concept-wise than Gnome, but Gnome's way less buggy and only needs one extension to make workspaces work
<DJones> daubers: How did your month using Windows go? Did you manage to last the month out
<daubers> HazRPG: I did try and eject something by dragging it onto the bar :) Then realised that a) it was the wrong machine and b) it doesn't work like that :p
<daubers> DJones: No :(
<DJones> daubers: Heh
<AlanBell> I wrote a unity lens which makes it quite bearable
<daubers> DJones: Found that it slowed me down quite considerably, and I didn't really have time to be slow
<HazRPG> daubers: may I point to this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/826059
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 826059 in unity (Ubuntu) "unity gets stuck in 'expose' mode when you drag an icon over a launcher icon and hold it there" [Low,Fix released]
<HazRPG> its fixed now in 11.10
<HazRPG> but 11.04 still has it, cos its not backported yet
<daubers> HazRPG: I prefer the way it works in 11.10, with the dash thing as an icon
<HazRPG> (my sister lost files a few times due to that bug)
<daubers> HazRPG: in fact, the biggest Ubuntu change that still annoys the hell out of me (when i forget) is the loss of aptitude in the default install
<daubers> Gets me once, then I install it
<HazRPG> :o!?
<HazRPG> oh, you mean everything gets pushed through the software centre?
<HazRPG> or you can't actually do "apt-get ..."
<daubers> HazRPG: No, the command line tool "aptitude". Always used it instead of "apt-get" as it had a bit more power in it
<HazRPG> daubers: ah
<HazRPG> see, apt-get does the trick for me :)
<daubers> And you can still do apt-get :) Just muscle memory makes me do otherwise
<daubers> Did consider making a bash alias for aptitude to apt-get but imagine that may break lots of things
<HazRPG> hmm, so is aptitude the "dpgk" stuff, or am I completely overshooting it now?
<HazRPG> ignore me... just did man aptitude
<daubers> HazRPG: Heh, it's just another dpkg front end like apt-get
<HazRPG> I see what you mean by more power
<BigRedS> daubers: I thought it was synaptic rather than aptitude?
<BigRedS> maybe my common-sense filter did that to ease the dumfoundedness
<HazRPG> BigRedS: Synaptic is the GUI version of aptitude :)
<BigRedS> yeah
<BigRedS> synaptic's arguably been replaced by the software centre
<BigRedS> for years now people keep intimating that aptitude is replacing apt-get
<BigRedS> so it makes no sense to get rid of aptitude
<HazRPG> oh, aptitude is a cli-gui thing
<HazRPG> nice
<daubers> HazRPG: Also does lots from the cli without the gui
<HazRPG> BigRedS: I can see this being useful for sysadmins!
<BigRedS> aptitude is either a cli command or a curses app, depending upon how you invoke it
<HazRPG> daubers: yeah, was reading the man pages
<daubers> yup
<daubers> HazRPG: I do, however, understand the argument for getting rid of aptitude, as the people who use it are very much in the minority and CD space is at a premium.
<gord> if i can't have vim on the cd, other nerds can't have aptitude dang it >:(
<daubers> One day I'll make some magic ldappy thing which will keep a list of packages in an ldap database and install them when the system is bound
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> I'd much rather have vim out of the box than aptitude
<HazRPG> heh, well thing is, if you're an aptitude user, your more like going to be able to install it... then those who don't even know what it is :P
<daubers> BigRedS: I'd rather have aptitude :) Vi is good enough
<BigRedS> It's great until I forget it's only vim and try to use arrow keys...
<HazRPG> am I the only one that uses nano?
<BigRedS> I only ever use aptitude to tidy up after I've done something silly to apt. If I used aptitude allthe time I've no idea how I'd fix it
<BigRedS> er, s/only vim/only vi/
<daubers> HazRPG: I'm just starting to understand how the app indicators work. Have to admit, those are pretty nifty when writing stuff for me to use at home
<gord> i looooove ending up with :wq at the bottom of my fstab file after every new install >:(
<BigRedS> haha
<HazRPG> CTRL+X Y for me :)
 * daubers is having fun writing stuff to work on osx and 'buntu these days
<daubers> try importing libindicator, if it fails use growl and so on
<HazRPG> I'm having fun writing stuff for bash in general recently :)
<daubers> Ah, bash has an onomatopoeicly  correct name
<bigcalm> Oo, hi popey
<ipopey> Pip pip
<ipopey> How's tricks?
<daubers> once my new sensors arrive from china, I want to make a unity icon thing that shows the relative level of different gases in my living room using the progress bar thing
<bigcalm> The sun is out, so all is well
<daubers> popey: Trickey
<KrisDouglas> daubers, how's that project coming along?
<daubers> KrisDouglas: The sensors stuff?
<KrisDouglas> Yeah
<daubers> Good :) Got mqtt working how I want it to now. Just need the components and then need to write some little apps
<daubers> Ubuntu/OSX/Android are the targets
<ipopey> I have my feet in sand :)
<bigcalm> ipopey: kids want to bury you yet?
<ipopey> Yes
<bigcalm> :D
<bigcalm> !ping
<lubotu3> another contentless ping... sigh...
<bigcalm> Humm
<bigcalm> Web and spotify have stopped working for me, but irc continues
 * bigcalm thinks DNS is down
 * daubers will enjoy the fact that by the end of next week (hopefully) he'll be able to measure the relative amount of alochol in the air in his living room
<bigcalm> daubers: on a ppm scale?
<daubers> bigcalm: On a relative ppm scale. No idea how I'd actually calibrate it to make it an actual scale
<ikonia-remote> I managed to watch Dr Who last night
<ikonia-remote> what a massive dissapointment it has turned into after the First 2 series, it now appears to just be a series of random and more random events happening
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alistair McKinlay] Paper: a dying relic, or here for a long time to come? - http://www.10people.co.uk/index.php/2011/09/paper-a-dying-relic/
<daubers> ikonia-remote: They seem to be going through finishing off unfinished story lines
<daubers> ikonia-remote: i.e. at the moment their finishing off the "River Sung" storyline
<ikonia-remote> daubers: but it's just random nonsense
<ikonia-remote> there appears to be no story, just events happening that are linked
<ikonia-remote> it's not really a story
<ikonia-remote> there is no individual episode plot and the big picture story is just random
<daubers> ikonia-remote: Surely that is the definition of a plot? "Events happening that are linked to a specific storyline", the storyline at the minute being related to the Silence
<ikonia-remote> daubers: that's not what I meant
<daubers> ikonia-remote: However, a lot of the recent stuff has been unremarkable. But there have been some really remarkable episodes
<ikonia-remote> daubers: I've not seen anything worth watching for years on it
<daubers> ikonia-remote: I did like the random "Meet the TARDIS" episode. Thought that was ace
<ikonia-remote> the stories seem to get weaker and weaker and more random and random
<ikonia-remote> daubers: that was a self contained story and seemed to work better than the drawn out dribble
<daubers> ikonia-remote: I'm not too sure tbh. It seems they've spent most of this series tying up the loose ends from the previous ones.
<ikonia-remote> daubers: they are just writing nonsense to try to make sense of the stories they had no idea what to do with
<ikonia-remote> it seems they have massivly run out of plot the writers......are not good in my view (I know I'm in the minority) it's just got weaker since the first 2 series
<daubers> ikonia-remote: I'd agree with quite a few episodes. However I think the ones that really stood out (mainly the tardis one, and the 2 parter with the angels) do somewhat keep me interested
<ikonia-remote> I feel bad as each series is more and more dissapointing
<daubers> ikonia-remote: I also thought the last christmas special was the best bit of Who I'd seen for a while
<ikonia-remote> daubers: the one with the opera singer
<ikonia-remote> ?
<ikonia-remote> (I lose track)
<ikonia-remote> Catherin Jenkins is it
<ikonia-remote> that one ?
<daubers> ikonia-remote: The Christmas Carol one
<ikonia-remote> I've rarley seen anything as bad as that one
<ikonia-remote> I genuinly thought that one of the weakest I'd seen
<daubers> I really enjoyed that one. I thought it was put together quite well, with the whole "Time can be changed" thing they've had going
<ikonia-remote> daubers: shoe horning in Catherine Jenkins to sing and floating wales.....sorry, no
<ikonia-remote> (I can't remember if that's her correct name, so apologies if I'm wrong on her name)
<daubers> She didn't seem shoe horned in. It did seem that whatser face and rory where shoe horned in a bit at times. The floating fish where also quite central to the plot
<ikonia-remote> daubers: they where all shoe horned in
<ikonia-remote> it was a terrible story
<daubers> I thoroughly enjoyed it
<ikonia-remote> (I really didn't like it in case you hadn't guessed)
<daubers> ( I gathered)
<daubers> ikonia-remote: Having rewatched the first episode of the first new series, I do think that generally it is better. But I think there are less exceptional episodes than a couple of the previous series. I'm also glad that they're not bringing in the Daleks again for a bit
<daubers> They're not as scary as they used to be
<ikonia-remote> daubers: I thought they brought the daleks back quite well
<ikonia-remote> the first season introduction was good
<ikonia-remote> I think they realised quickly they had made a massive mistake by declaring that a.) the timelords where all dead b.) the daleks where all dead
<daubers> ikonia-remote: Problem was, that they've relied on them too much and they've been over used. Generally surprised they don't just go "Oh, its the doctor, time to go home"
<ikonia-remote> I'm still waiting for them to bring back the Rahni, a good character waiting to be brought back
<ikonia-remote> daubers: the first 7 series of the original Dr Who didn't realise that.....
<bigcalm[revo]> Grrr VM
<daubers> ikonia-remote: Maybe not, but you can only bring back a single baddy in a single guise so many times before it gets old
<bigcalm[revo]> Less than and more than are being weird too. They give me Z and X respectively
<ikonia-remote> daubers: I wonder how much of me is a little biased due to the changes they have made from the original series "universe" eg: the cybermen are now humans in shells who "delete" rather than a clever alien race
<bigcalm[revo]> And shift + 2 is giving @
<bigcalm[revo]> @ is giving me q
<bigcalm[revo]> What the heck?
<ikonia-remote> bigcalm[revo]: USA keyboard layout
<suprengr> dalek: oh booga it's The Doctor time to go upsatars, hide in the cupboard & forget our entire ethos!
 * bigcalm[revo] pokes synergy
<bigcalm[revo]> ><
<bigcalm[revo]> That's better :)
<bigcalm[revo]> Restarting synergy on client and server fixed it
<bigcalm[revo]> All I wanted to write was: I </3 VM
<suprengr> - or didn't anyone see the lone dalek hybrid eposide
<suprengr> *stairs btw
<ikonia-remote> suprengr: the one that was a man with an alien head ?
<daubers> ikonia-remote: Maybe, that and people always remember things as better than they where originally (nostalgia and all that)
<ikonia-remote> daubers: not %100 true, I watched the Sylvester McCoy story "destruction of the daleks" the other day, the effects where weak, but the plot wipes the floor with the new stuff
<ikonia-remote> daubers: but I'm sure at least %70 true
<directhex> can we agree colin baker sucks?
<oimon> + SM + DT
<ikonia-remote_> directhex: although I enjoy his childish tantrum and refusal to do the rejeneration clips
<ikonia-remote_> and the fact that he's super bitter about it to this day
<ikonia-remote> this connection is getting very annoying
<daubers> ikonia-remote: The one thing that I always enjoy where the effects are pants, but the stories are amazing is the original series of the twilight zone
<daubers> However, taken out of it's time period, they've all become cliches
<ikonia-remote> daubers: totally, it's quite hard to keep in context with a 20 year time period
<ikonia-remote> need to disconnect for a while
<bigcalm[revo]> I fear I might hurt somebody/thing at VM soon
<bigcalm[revo]> Please leave my connection connected
<MooDoo> not having fun bigcalm ?
<gord> still need to figure out how to take my revo apart :(
<gord> just not happening
<bigcalm> gord: there is 1 screw to undo in the side, it's under a sticky label
<bigcalm> MooDoo: When one has a job that wouldn't exist without the internet, it gets difficult to do when said internet goes away
<MooDoo> bigcalm: yeah i know that one :S
<gord> bigcalm, so there is!
<bigcalm> gord: when I bought my revo from play.com, I went for the 2gb option. They sent me the device with the extra ram as a stick to insert myself
<bigcalm> So, voided the warranty on day one :)
<gord> bigcalm, still can't get the damn thing open :(
<bigcalm> gord: have a look on youtube. I think that's what I did
<bigcalm> If I wanted to take it apart now, I'd have to look up how to do it again :)
 * daubers hands gord the +1 hammer of smashing
<gord> daubers, should be noted that i want to fix it not make it in to thousands of tiny pieces
<gord> got the blasted thing open, thank you kindly bigcalm :)
<bigcalm> gord: yay :)
<gord> woo time to order some new memory
<daubers> gord: I meant to do that the other day, but I forgot
<gord> geez, the revo comes with 2gb ram
<gord> thats crazy
<gord> oh wait no, i guess some people might use it for more than just xbmc.... crazy people.
<bigcalm> I use mine as a web dev server
<bigcalm> Though I did buy it to run with boxee and sit under the telly
<Antonio007> can you  help with  ndiswrapper compilation?
<HazRPG> anyone having issues with screensavers in natty?
<HazRPG> my sister is reporting that when the screensaver goes on... and she returns to the system, the system has locked up
<HazRPG> it just happened now... and so I had to forcefully log her out
<HazRPG> using "sudo pkill -KILL -u user"
<HazRPG> seems the screensaver just locks up and refuses to let the login box show up
<HazRPG> Not sure if this is reproducible or not.
<HazRPG> ah, bug 762918
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 762918 in xf86-video-intel "Natty Screensaver freezes system after some period of inactivity" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/762918
<HazRPG> well its Eid... so I suppose I should ring my mum and wish her a happy Eid :)
<MartijnVdS> oh is that today?
 * MartijnVdS prepares for a night of partying neighbors
 * AlanBell pokes Londonish people with -> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1257/detail/
<czajkowski> done
<czajkowski> alanbell gatwick -> shannon via Aer Lingus is now stopped  as of end of the month
<AlanBell> yes
<czajkowski> shame
<czajkowski> staff dont know why it's been pulled
<AlanBell> ryanair or Heathrow
<AlanBell> not profitable
<czajkowski> it's a busy enough flight
<AlanBell> flights for 50p
<czajkowski> NO Ryanair means I've to check in a bag as carry on for 10 days is not really possible with their weights
<czajkowski> also heathrow! EWWWWWW
<AlanBell> or leave clothes at both ends
<czajkowski> AlanBell: only via stanstead
<Azelphur> was up at 7am last night, some guy pm'd me in WoW telling me to go to his phishing website to get a free mount, so I did...with urllib and 20 threads :D
<Azelphur> it went 404 after I'd sent it 10,000 form submissions, hahaha
<HazRPG> just gotta say boys and girls... "Everyday I'm shufflin'!!"
<HazRPG> and for the uninitiated: http://youtu.be/KQ6zr6kCPj8?t=1m37s
<ali1234> HazRPG: which is a reference to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JU9TouRnO84
<ali1234> or possible this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLDitGAUrno
<ali1234> gotta wonder where the sample comes from
<HazRPG> heh, yeah it will be a reference to those :)
<HazRPG> not many people will get that though
<AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/happyhour.pdf how does that look?
<swat__> evening all
<swat__> does anyone have a problem with google chrome in ubuntu being really laggy?
<DJones> swat__: Nope, no problems for me, if anything its the fastest browser I use
<MartijnVdS> google's servers make apt-get update slow for me
<nucc1> guys, where do I lay my hands on the 11.10 beta isos?
<nucc1> ah, seen
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Loco Team Portal Gets Blogging Support - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/09/01/loco-team-portal-gets-blogging-support/
<AlanBell> beta isos are on http://releases.ubuntu.com for anyone who wants to have a play
<AlanBell> I am putting it on a USB at the moment to try an eyes-free install with the screenreader
<bigcalm> AlanBell: screen turned off or blindfolded?
<AlanBell> screen off
<AlanBell> will see if it boots with the screen unplugged, it used not to
<bigcalm> Can't you just turn the monitor off but leave it plugged in?
<AlanBell> yes
<AlanBell> first time I tried I didn't bother to plug in a monitor and the boot process hangs
 * AlanBell grumbles about the continuing embarrassing lack of a beep
<AlanBell> Bug #180561
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 180561 in gfxboot-theme-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "The liveCD should beep when the boot prompt shows out" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/180561
<ali1234> AlanBell: that's the isolinux prompt?
<ali1234> just add some assembler code to poke the pc speaker
<ali1234> that's what i'd do anyway
<ali1234> no maintainer will accept the patch but who cares?
<ali1234> i can't believe all the debian developers combined failed to make a boot menu that beeps
<Laney> colin watson is all the debian developers combined?
<bigcalm> cat /dev/random > /dev/dsp
<ali1234> Laney: only if he's using the royal we
<AlanBell> it is gfxboot
<AlanBell> looking through the source now
 * Laney is confused
<Laney> nobody did the work, therefore it isn't that
<Laney> there*
<Laney> that's how it goes
<ali1234> Laney: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gfxboot-theme-ubuntu/+bug/537879/comments/1
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 180561 in gfxboot-theme-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #537879 The liveCD should beep when the boot prompt shows out" [Wishlist,New]
<AlanBell> so gfxboot is a suse thing http://www.vitki.net/static/docs/gfxboot.html#f_0126
<AlanBell> there are indications it can make sounds happen
<ali1234> AlanBell: don't play that game
<ali1234> that's why they failed
<Laney> i don't understand why you think that 'we' is all of the debian developers
<Laney> some unknown amount of people tried, but in the end nobody cared enough to make it work
<AlanBell> yet.
<ali1234> gfxboot is not the right place to make the patch
<ali1234> make it in isolinux
<AlanBell> ok
<ali1234> and don't try to do any sound files
<ali1234> just bang the ioport directly
<ali1234> it does not get any simpler than that
<AlanBell> yeah, don't care what it sounds like, just needs a beep
<Laney> if you have all the answers, why not fix it?
<ali1234> it will be 1 line
<ali1234> Laney: you have all the answer now too, since i just gave them to you
<ali1234> so why don't *you* fix it, since i'm already busy fixing someone else's bad code
<Laney> apparently you still don't understand how this works
<AlanBell> hmm, what package is isolinux in then?
<Laney> people fix things they care about
 * AlanBell cares about it
<ali1234> AlanBell: syslinux
<ali1234> probably
<AlanBell> ah, right#
<ali1234> the hardest part of fixing this will be testing it, since you'll need a real machine most likely
<ali1234> and have to keep reseting it
<ali1234> and of course it won't work on arm. only x86
<ali1234> you could make the patch in core/console.c in myputs
<ali1234> it will then beep whenever it prints a character
<ali1234> which might be quite a lot
<AlanBell> so why isn't gfxboot the right place to fix it?
<ali1234> cos gfxboot isn;t what is actually running at boot time
<AlanBell> well it is what displays the symbol
<ali1234> gfxboot is a program that generates graphics which are then loaded by isolinux, or grub, or whatever
<ali1234> the actual gfxboot code is not running at boot time
<AlanBell> oooh
<AlanBell> ok, so gfxboot compiles the postscript stuff down to a bytecode that isolinux interprets
<ali1234> there is probably some patch to isolinux to add gfxboot support too
<ali1234> look in syslinux/com32/gfxboot
<ali1234> there it is
<AlanBell> http://ftp.halifax.rwth-aachen.de/opensuse/distribution/11.3/repo/oss/boot/x86_64/loader/hapysuse.mod the opensuse bootloader plays that under some
<AlanBell> situations
<AlanBell> and fsfsong.wav in some other situation
<AlanBell> the isolinux patch would probably be a bit simpler, but I don't think it would be accepted
<ali1234> yeah this is always the problem
<ali1234> "we won't accept your patch unless you implement it the way we want you to, the way we already tried and failed because it is way too complicated"
<ali1234> but at least then they won't be able to use the "it's too hard" excuse
<AlanBell>  will in this situation I can see the logic of playing the sound file when you display the image that it goes with
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> all you have to do is fix it
<ali1234> but since it is bootloader code
<ali1234> it will be a nightmare
<AlanBell> or do it properly
<ali1234> but then this is what happens when you abuse the bootloader to do more than it is supposed to do
<ali1234> there isn't really a reason for any of this stuff to be on bootloader menus
<AlanBell> yeah, but there it is and it is embarrassingly thoughtless
<nucc1> guys, i'm running gnome-shell on 11.10 beta, and i can't see any window menus, what should i do?
<AlanBell> nucc1: probably disable the global menu
<ali1234> yes
<nucc1> how do i do that?
<AlanBell> or wait for it to crash
<nucc1> lol
<ali1234> i don't know how you disable it on 11.10
<nucc1> how could one disable it in 11.04?
<ali1234> i dont know that either
<ali1234> i tried to disable it, but it wouldn't die
<nucc1> hmmm.
<ali1234> sometimes it goes away, sometimes it doesn't
<ali1234> sometimes i just get a gap
<ali1234> even though that bug has supposedly been fixed
<ali1234> it was only fixed for firefox
<ali1234> gotta love intrusive OS changes that require every single application ever made to be patched
<nucc1> :(
<ali1234> especially when there's only one guy assigned to patching them
<nucc1> this basically means i'm still stuck with fedora :(
<AlanBell> nucc1: not sure, but if you ask how to do that in #ubuntu+1 I expect someone will know
<ali1234> or any of the other distros that hasn't gone insane
<AlanBell> it used to be something like removing gnome2-globalmenu but it won't be that now
<AlanBell> gnome3-globalmenu maybe
<ali1234> you have to set an environment variable as well
<ali1234> try searching on askubuntu
<ali1234> it gets asked there about 17 times a day
<nucc1> there's no gnome3-globalmenu
<nucc1> there are firefox, thunderbird globalmenus
<ali1234> anyway, what's wrong with fedora? if you want gnome-shell you will be better off, since they are basically the only distro supporting it
<AlanBell> http://reallifemonopoly.eventbrite.com/
<nucc1> ali1234, AlanBell solved. i had to log out, choose "gnome" as the session and log back in.
<nucc1> works quite nicely, and i love the fancy scrollbars :)
<nucc1> speaking of which, the one inside the xchat window isn't working for the message list
<nucc1> :p
<nucc1> the beta seems quite stable
 * AlanBell installs opensuse to a usb stick
 * TheOpenSourcerer is doing a rather large dist-upgrade to Magrat... Last time 11.10 from about a week ago.
<AlanBell> hopefully I can prove that the bootloader can make a sound as defined in the gfxboot configuration
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Matthew Garrett] The Android/GPL situation - http://mjg59.livejournal.com/138615.html
<AlanBell> oh my word
<AlanBell> oh, so gfxboot can play .mod files *very* badly through the PC speaker
<AlanBell> it doesn't play the .wav because suse is broken and didn't include the fsfsong.wav file that it trys to call
<AlanBell> I expect thats why cjwatson failed, wrong path or wrong sound file format silently failing and reporting no errors
<zleap> hi
<zleap> any star trek fans here ?
<dwatkins> zleap: yeah
<zleap> cool
<zleap> you seen star trek : new voyages
<zleap> http://www.startreknewvoyages.com/
<zleap> dwatkins,
<dwatkins> I have not *clicks*
<zleap> ok
<zleap> fan made episodes to carry onwhere the original series left off
<dwatkins> aha I suspected as much
<dwatkins> I hear there's going to be a new series set after Voyager
<zleap> however they have support from paramount
<zleap> cool
<zleap> and someof the actors from the TOS make appearances
<dwatkins> I like the idea of a new series, but I gather it will ignore the new 'reboot' film.
<zleap> reboot film is that the star trek movie
<dwatkins> the new one, I mean
<zleap> so star trek 11
<dwatkins> yes
<zleap> ok
<zleap> thanks didn't even know about that one
<zleap> anyway worth checking out this new series
<dwatkins> Personally I think it's an excellent film, 11.
<zleap> all free to download etc
<zleap> any links
<dwatkins> what to?
<zleap> reboot
<dwatkins> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek_(film)
<zleap> oh thats the new star trek movie
<zleap> the one released a few years ago
<zleap> sorry didn't really follow what you meant,  yeah accordingto that they are contracted for more movies
<dwatkins> yeah, I was just reading that
<dwatkins> excellent news :)
<zleap> yep
<dwatkins> It's a little ambiguous what they plan to do about the timelines, what with this new series, but if you'll excuse the pun, time will tell.
<zleap> its nice that paramount are also supporting these fan episodes
<zleap> lol
<dwatkins> yeah
<zleap> as in allowing them to do it,  they even have a few of the original writers involved
<zleap> even better its actually illigal to sell them, so they remain free
<dwatkins> I saw there were donate buttons to help out with the production costs, which is a good way to do it
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> i have downloaded a few
<dwatkins> We will be watching this shortly, thanks zleap :)
<zleap> np
<zleap> lets hope star trek lives long and prospers
<zleap> to paraphrase spock i guess
<gord> dwatkins, its a new timeline, all the events of the old timeline still played out and impact events in the new timeline, but its new and seperate
<gord> </dork>
<dwatkins> gord: so we have both existing in tandem, like the mirror universes?
<gord> dwatkins, no not in tandem, you can't travel from one to the other or anything like that, the events in the new timeline happen *after* the events in TOS for example, because all those things had to have happened for spock to go back in time to create the new timeline
<dwatkins> oh I see, gord - I thought they might keep the two timelines for use in different films/series in future (although originally I thought they would just use the 'new' timeline set forth in the eleventh film.
<dwatkins> )
#ubuntu-uk 2011-09-02
<gord> well i don't see them ever going back to the old timeline tbh, after nemesis and enterprise, no one wants any of that
<gord> tried to watch nemesis three times, fell asleep three times, no idea what happens in the middle
<dwatkins> I thought the same, but apparently the new series set after Voyager (which in itself surprised me, as I didn't think they could take the technology any further) is set in the universe Janeway and pals have been seen in.
<diplo> morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> In Unity (11.10), how do I set the screensaver/screen off function to only work on battery and not when on AC? It seems the settings are not there.
<MartijnVdS> you're not supposed to change those settings, you power user!
<MartijnVdS> The computer knows better than y ou.
<MartijnVdS> (that, or poke gord)
<TheOpenSourcerer> The "Startup Applications Preferences" has no list of apps in it. Have to navigate to /usr/bin -  Not exactly "user - friendly" eh?
<gord> TheOpenSourcerer, sorry, gnome 3 removed that :(
<gord> not a unity thing
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oh FFS.
<gord> yup, pretty much my reaction a few months back too
<gord> in gnome 3 proper you can't actually set the screensaver to turn off completely, you have to choose some sort of timeframe, can't remember if we distropatched that out or not
<TheOpenSourcerer> I noticed there wasn't a "never" option either. But thought that was just me not finding the right setting...
<TheOpenSourcerer> That's a regression IMHO. Can I file a bug? Will it be even considered?
<gord> TheOpenSourcerer, there already is a bug upstream, their answer is no, you should be letting it turn off to save the planet or something like that
<AlanBell> you can't turn off the screensaver /o\
<AlanBell> so kiosks are broken
<MartijnVdS> apt-get purge gnome-screensaver :)
<MartijnVdS> if it can't run, it can't turn off the screen :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> 10.10 is feeling mighty nice right now.
<gord> AlanBell, no no you can if you need to, its still a gsettings key, just can't do it from a ui
<MooDoo> morning
<diplo> I can see a new PPA being started :)
<AlanBell> I did hack together a less impossible to use app lens for 11.10
<AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/appmenu.ogv
<AlanBell> the app lens is now so bloated it doesn't show more than 3 apps in a category by default
<diplo> Much better AlanBell +1
<diplo> :)
<diplo> If I can get Natty running on this laptop one day I'll certainly give it a go
<AlanBell> started from the original app lens and ripped out the zeitgeist stuff and the app centre stuff and the filters and it is masses easier to use
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: That's just like how the old "menus" used to work... You know categorise your apps and all that...
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> I still don't get Unity at all - it seems to take me more time and clicks to get to stuff and then I can't find the things I have open. What is it all about really?
<diplo> I do like some of the functionality, just not all of it.
<dwatkins> I thought it was all about making Gnome like a Mac, but I don't know much about it.
<TheOpenSourcerer> It "looks" nice but is a PITA to actually use IMHO.
<TheOpenSourcerer> There seems little connection between Design and Function.
<Hippychick> i find it annoying trying to launch an app, i search for it, click on the thing i want, it then just opens the containing folder rather then launching the app... unless there is a config option i have missed
<TheOpenSourcerer> I just find it annoying.
<bigcalm> Good (I think) morning peeps :)
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: lenses are a nice concept, just for some daft reason they didn't do the totally obvious thing with the primary app lens
<MartijnVdS> Does alt+f2 -> type name of program work again?
<MartijnVdS> because it was broken for a few weeks/months
<oimon> MartijnVdS: in 11.10?
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: I was thinking of making an OpenERP lens
<AlanBell> or a vtiger lens searching for customers and things
<TheOpenSourcerer> MartijnVdS: Not here.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I get a box "Run a command" but typing "terminal" in it and hitting enter does nothing.
<AlanBell> the command is gnome-terminal
<AlanBell> try gedit
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ahh - ok - that worked !
<TheOpenSourcerer> That's nearly as quick as Gnome2
<MartijnVdS> oimon: in Oneiric
<czajkowski> aloha
<MooDoo> czajkowski: good morning fine lady
 * AlanBell thinks czajkowski should tell the group what she is up to tonight
<MooDoo> AlanBell: oh aye?
<MooDoo> AlanBell: she's not listening ;)
<danfish> good morning all...long time no speaky/typey
<czajkowski> http://ticketing.southbankcentre.co.uk/find/music/gigs-contemporary/tickets/video-game-heroes-60710
<AlanBell> hi danfish
<danfish> o/ AlanBell
<MooDoo> czajkowski: are you going or playing?
 * AlanBell wonders if danfish is up for the happy hour
<czajkowski> going
<czajkowski> AlanBell: you're missing from surrey
<czajkowski> trellis is going to post it internally
<danfish> AlanBell: most definitely - I just need to confirm with the other half who gets back on Sunday
 * AlanBell tries to parse
<AlanBell> how am I missing from surrey
<AlanBell> and what is a trellis internal to
<czajkowski> you're not in the chnannel
<AlanBell> what channel?
<czajkowski> he's gonna forward the ubuntu london hour on for us
<czajkowski> AlanBell: #surrey
<czajkowski> :)
<AlanBell> on what server?
<AlanBell> not on freenode
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MooDoo> morning
<czajkowski> AlanBell: lug.org.uk
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> brobostigon: how are you?
<brobostigon> MooDoo: not bad, my eczema is playing up. and you?
<MooDoo> brobostigon: waiting for bloomin baby :)
<brobostigon> MooDoo: ah, i hope everything goes smoothly. :)
<MooDoo> brobostigon: thanks
<brobostigon> :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> lo danfish how goes it?
<danfish> TheOpenSourcerer: tickerty-boo thanks, but August has been a very odd month
<danfish> family weddings/illnesses/births/divorces all in equal measure and in different countries
<TheOpenSourcerer> gosh.
<danfish> spent a lot of time in airports
<danfish> I have now resolved to stay in Blightly for the next 12 months
<danfish> TheOpenSourcerer: how are the chilis?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Pretty good thanks. Greenhouse is rammed. But I think they may have cross-pollinated. My Naga's look more like Bangalore Torpedos but with Naga heat...
<MooDoo> pah! my chillies suck, but they were my first batch, i need to do something different next year
<danfish> TheOpenSourcerer: ooh - cross-pollination. you should collect the seed and grow on next year - you may end up with a new variety. Name suggestions please
<danfish> MooDoo: (steal some of TheOpenSourcerer's, but don't tell him I told you so ;)
<MooDoo> danfish: i'm trying to grow my own, but they don't like being outside, which was my first mistake
<TheOpenSourcerer> Bangalore Naga
<danfish> MooDoo: with the 'summer' we've had, may be a tad ambitious growing outdoors
<AlanBell> so, trying to log on to a cisco vpn with network manager and a one-time-key dongle thingie
<AlanBell> anyone know where to get a log of the reason it is failing?
<MooDoo> danfish: i know that now :D
<danfish> yeh - that's the netbook with oneiric installed. Lets see what's breaks ;)
<daubers> Morning
<Lcawte> How many of the pubs are child friendly? :P
<AlanBell> Lcawte: well probably none, we do child friendly events, but this isn't one of them
<AlanBell> this is a child-free activity
 * Hippychick used to take her ferrets into the pub
<AlanBell> the Books & Butties event was very child friendly
<MartijnVdS> and fun
<Lcawte> Good, pubs and strangers... scarey! :)
<AlanBell> well, it is what pubs are for
<AlanBell> picnic with children==terrifying for some people
<AlanBell> including me and they are my kids
<christel> lol
<daubers> AlanBell: well if you will get things from ebay on a whim....
 * Lcawte is currently wearing half of his breakfast :/
<Dave2> ali1234: gave up on network-manager and just used vpnc directly; you might try that?
<Dave2> er
<Dave2> AlanBell: even
<MooDoo> Lcawte: do you need a bib ;)
<Dave2> I'm not used to there being multiple als
<BigRedS> What? there's a whole hoarde of them
<AlanBell> Dave2: just got it working
<AlanBell> there was a one-time-key token and a fixed prefix
<Lcawte> lol, not unless you've got a huge one that'll reach half way down my legs :p
<danfish> BigRedS: I wonder what the collective noun is for a bunch of Al's?
<AlanBell> and I was putting the prefix at the end /o\
<Dave2> that's not going to work.
<danfish> the 'secret' prefix on our one-time-key tokens at work is "1234"
<AlanBell> ooh, it *just works*
<AlanBell> that is awesome
<daubers> danfish: "That lot over there"?
<danfish> daubers: an (i)pod of al's ;)
<daubers> danfish: An alPod?
<danfish> a quick airport security tip - do not take a nanode in your hand luggage - it upsets the security peeps
<AlanBell> thealans.com seems to be down at the moment
<danfish> daubers: very good :D
<daubers> danfish: Surely it should just be "Al-ot"
<AlanBell> lol, nice tip danfish
<oimon> danfish: an mp3 player upset security peeps when i went to the US "wires! this guy has wires in his bag!"
<AlanBell> !ping
<lubotu3> another contentless ping... sigh...
<AlanBell> ahh, VPN breaks normal web browsing
<danfish> is the bot depressed?
<DJones> Wouldn't you be, spending 24/7 on IRC
<bigcalm> AlanBell: I find that when I connect to a client's VPN in the states
<danfish> DJones: :) quite probably
<diplo> AlanBell / bigcalm : Probably because you haven't changed it to only route required traffic over the vpn
<diplo> There is a setting in nm
<diplo> But it sucks donkey balls and I have never bothered spending the time to work out why
<diplo> Windows untick the box and it's fine
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> I have to use a python script to connect to this client's VPN. Found it on my own as their tech wasn't able to provide linux support
<gord> really not enjoying this trend of having stupid in page javascript popups in websites, at least the old horrible window popups we can block =\
<AlanBell> close the tab
<gord> hum?
 * czajkowski tickles gord 
<gord> am not a tickle me elmo =\
<MooDoo> gord: you in a bad mood?
<gord> nu uh
<BigRedS> tickle me elmos are never in a bad mood
<bigcalm> Are inline styles still the accepted method when building HTML emails?
<BigRedS> there's an accepted method for HTML emails?
<bigcalm> BigRedS: I feel silly for asking it like that now :)
<bigcalm> s/accepted method/most likely method to work everywhere/
<TheOpenSourcerer> bigcalm - html emails suck because of Outlook. Use tables and either in-line styling or a <style></style>block at the top of the mail.
<TheOpenSourcerer> In Outlook 2003 they chnages the html renderer from IE (bad) to Word (total ********).
<oimon> arrgh so much spam from nectar, and all of it rubbish
<dwatkins> oimon: can't you use it to get a doscount on ebay or amazon?
<MartijnVdS> C:\DOS\COUNT
<xunubi> Hey peeps, could some kind soul tell me the name of the sound controls used in ubuntu? (sound mixer etc), I'm trying to run a more light-weight version with XFCE but the default sound controls don't let me use my mic
<Myrtti> semi-headache again
<Myrtti> ;.<
<bigcalm> Myrtti: poop :(
<Mnemonic_> Hello
<tris2468> bootme: hi!
<bootme> Hi tris, everyone
<Mnemonic_> Hi
<tris2468> bootme: You ahve to come to the Unicorn when it's there. It's right next to my house
<bootme> What day?
<tris2468> It's the last on the list so I don't know
<Hippychick> blegh, work are on a support purge day meaning not much time for chat :(
<MooDoo> Hippychick: support sucks ;)
<Hippychick> MooDoo, indeed it does
<MooDoo> Hippychick: he says being in support :)
 * daubers demands to stop sneezing
<idrui> whois iderui
 * brobostigon lends daubers some of his anti-histamines.
<daubers> brobostigon: More of a , moved monitor, dust on the stand went _everywhere_, begin sneezing fit
<brobostigon> :( not nice.
<oimon> quiet here today
<Hippychick> everyone is busy working hard :)
<oimon> i'm following the sysadmins rule of not breaking too much since returning from lunch on friday
 * hamitron is researching games, in case there is a request for some form of "staff entertainment"
<diplo> oimon: Afraid Im doing the opposite, installing devel libraries etc on a dev box
<diplo> Really hoping things don't break :D
<hamitron> :/
<oimon> i'm spending money instead
 * brobostigon has broken awstats, again.
<oimon> thanks brobostigon, you reminded me of somethig i was supposed to do :)
<brobostigon> oimon: youre welcome, :)
<hamitron> I swear a farmer keeps driving by to annoy me, each time I'm trying to think about something
<hamitron> shakes the whole building
<hamitron> not a productive time
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> give up, time for beer
<hamitron> :)
<brobostigon> :)
<oimon> aha, ubuntu one has longer public links now...no more ubuntu one roulette!
<brobostigon> oimon: yes, someone said to me not that long ago, that it was pretty easy, to quess ubuntu one url's previously.
<oimon> yeah, although it's public, i didn't want it THAT public
<brobostigon> agreed.
<oimon> maybe it's after if added u1 PPA on lucid
<oimon> if you tried to buy a touchpad the other week and took down hp, staples and insights websites, could you be culpable for taking part in a DDOS attack?
<brobostigon> they are also doing another build run,
<diplo> brobostigon: Only available to the US afaik
<brobostigon> diplo: ah, i see. interesting.
<DJones> And if you bought through amazon before the price drop, they're not giving refunds, you have to go direct to HP
<oimon> i haven't touched my laptop since getting the tablet
<gord> tablets are funny things, people who like them proclaim the death of every other medium, not quite understanding that some of us just like laptops
<AlanBell> a tablet is a satellite device
<brobostigon> personally, i prefer a proper keyboard, hence me also choosing, my htc dream, as it has a proper keyboard, kinda.
<DJones> I like the idea of a tablet, but I wouldn't fancy not having a a physical keyboard for any regular typing
<brobostigon> agreed, DJones.
<oimon> i think it just shows that in the evenings my missis has been using the laptop a lot, and also i've been too tired to do anything but flick a touchscreen and read linux journal or a book or refresh the football transfer window web pages.
<oimon> but the mrs has written 2 blogs posts in a week
<oimon> so i usually hog the laptop :)
<DJones> Maybe waiting for when we get easily available wearable computers with voice input, holographic displays, sensors that detect eye movement to click on icons etc....
<DJones> ... Oh, isn't that something out of sci fi series, things like "V" etc :)
<oimon> i'm sure apple will try to patent it anyway and restrict others from using the tech
<MooDoo> no global jams in the UK?
<AlanBell> no
<MooDoo> ok just wondering after looking at the map
<czajkowski> :(
<czajkowski> oh well
<czajkowski> another time hopefully
<MooDoo> aye
<czajkowski> we started off with 1 in dublin then galways and now Limeric this year taken some time to build up that tbh
<Lcawte> I should really pay more attention to Ubuntu and other related events... missed even looking at a few of the bigger Linux/FOSS conferences this year :(
 * MooDoo wants to go to UDS one year
<AlanBell> make yourself indispensible and fill in the sponsorship forms
<czajkowski> Lcawte: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/rss/
<czajkowski> AlanBell: not even about making one indispensible tbh
<czajkowski> about what you can offer to the community to bring something different to the discussion table
<MooDoo> i'll just flutter my eyelids at someone, that will do it
<czajkowski> many people are really active and dont go
<MooDoo> are they all in the US now?
<Nece228> hi
<MooDoo> Nece228: hi there :)
<Nece228> hows computer repairers jobs in uk?
<Lcawte> czajkowski: thanks :)
<MooDoo> can't say i'm aware to be honest
<MooDoo> loads of pc repair shops in nottinghamshire.
<Nece228> basically installing windows, drivers, diagnosing foulty hardware
<Nece228> are there any jobs like that?
 * Lcawte shrugs ... never have to use them..
<czajkowski> MooDoo: are all waht in the US now ?
<MooDoo> czajkowski: UDS ss'ss ;)
<czajkowski> MooDoo: nope like always every 2nd one
<czajkowski> EU / USA
<MooDoo> Nece228: i'm sure there are loads, just never needed one as Lcawte says
<czajkowski> last one was in EU next one USA
<MooDoo> czajkowski: ok thanks
<czajkowski> np
<Nece228> MooDoo: not really a perspective job
<Lcawte> Hmm, my birthdays coming up (this tuesday), I wonder if the store has Ubuntu Tshirts
<AlanBell> the oneiric Tshirts should be out soon
<Nece228> wondering what are good it jobs besides programmers
<MooDoo> Nece228: system administrators, database administrators technical support
<MooDoo> list goes on
<Lcawte> The hoodies are nice... but a bit expensive :/
<Nece228> MooDoo: but is it easy to get employed with those jobs?
<MooDoo> Nece228: if you're got at it, then you've got the same chances as everyone else...
<oimon> assuming you have a valid work permit
<AlanBell> only on shop.ubuntu.com could you see a shipping option at Â£108.46 for a Â£10.85 Tshirt
<Nece228> oimon: you mean graduation
<bigcalm> Ug
<MooDoo> Nece228: where are you from?
<Nece228> MooDoo: lithuania
<oimon> Nece228: i mean assuming you are allowed to work in the country that you are applying for a job in
<MooDoo> Nece228: are you allowed to work in this country?  do you need any permits?
<Nece228> MooDoo: yeah i can go whenever
<MooDoo> Nece228: then you have as much chance as getting a job as any one else, you just need to look for them :)
<Nece228> MooDoo: really? i think you are too optimistic :)
<MooDoo> Nece228: why? if the jobs are out there and you apply, if you're good enough why shouldn't you get it....you just have as much chance as anyone else....
<MooDoo> maybe i am being :)
<Nece228> but  i dont have graduation
<MooDoo> Nece228: do you have experience?
<Nece228> MooDoo: official experience not really.
<Nece228> MooDoo: i would be happy if i would get 11000 gbp per year
<Nece228> or whatever wage minimum
<MooDoo> guess you better start looking around then :D  no harm in applying for things
<Nece228> MooDoo: you mean start looking for a job in my country
<Nece228> to get experience
<Lcawte> Seriously? Â£55 for a Ubuntu backpack :O
<AlanBell> maybe do some volunteer stuff for a charity
<Nece228> too bad no offerings in my country
<Nece228> lithuania is known for one of the lowest tech country
<MooDoo> Nece228: yeah that would be a good idea, and wha AlanBell said, perhaps offer your computer services to charities etc
<Lcawte> Ubuntu Pen and Lanyards seem like a good deal though... might even get some for my WMUK hackathon in November...
<MooDoo> Nece228: start a linux user group and get businesses to come along and take a look :) then you can offer yourself out to help them :D
<Nece228> MooDoo: ok i have time. im planning now to get a electrician graduation
<Nece228> MooDoo: i would love to. but starting bussiness is a little bit difficult here. if you want to start it, youll have to pay good amount of money instantly, if the bussiness fails, you also have to pay big amount of money to close it
<AlanBell> Lcawte: you can have some CDs to hand out too
<Nece228> having your bussiness in my country is kind of killed
<Nece228> the taxes are way too big
<AlanBell> Lcawte: http://ubuntu-uk.org/free-cds/
<Lcawte> Strange, I keep seeing stuff that I've read today popup... lol
<Lcawte> AlanBell: So I'd need to provide CD cases and postage... I might as well hand out my own knock off versions :)
<AlanBell> sure, do that too
<AlanBell> the CD case is just to keep it safe and to make sure people don't send an envelope smaller than a CD
<AlanBell> they come in a nice card CD case
<Nece228> you know its getting a bit difficult to get a job at all in my country
<Nece228> people in supermarket work with disposable diapers and get wage minimum
<Nece228> dont like the job - dont work
<Lcawte> If I wanted 15 or something, should I send you two boxes instead, AlanBell?
<AlanBell> a stack of 15 is about 6cm tall
<zleap> hi
<Nece228> hi
<zleap> j am running ujbuntu 11.04 with classic interface  i can't see the minimise, maximise and close buttonson the top of applications is there a way to get this back?
<Nece228> zleap: can you see titlebar
<zleap> no
<zleap>  jjust have a menu bar
<Nece228> zleap: alt + f2 and type metacity --replace
<zleap> ah thanks
<zleap> is this a compiz setting i need to alter then
<zleap> i got it back but to make it permanent
<Nece228> well
<Nece228> you run classic desktop with or without effects?
<zleap> k
<Nece228> in compizconfig settings ensure that window decoration plugin is checked
<zleap> ok
<Nece228> and the command in that plugin preferences is: /usr/bin/compiz-decorator
<zleap> i got it ticked now
<zleap> or i have it ticked to use better English
<bigcalm> !ping
<lubotu3> another contentless ping... sigh...
<Nece228> zleap: now try to log out and login to see if it works
<bigcalm> I always fear for my connection when xchat shows the lag bar at 100%
<Nece228> bigcalm: perhaps your downloading something?
<bigcalm> Nece228: nope, I have VirginMedia cable :)
<bigcalm> Dodgy at the best of times
<Nece228> bigcalm: cool
<Nece228> bigcalm: wondering whats the speed of connection?
<bigcalm> Nece228: 30mb down, 3mb up
<Nece228> bigcalm: very good imo
<Nece228> mine is 1mbps
<newtoubuntu> I want to switch to ubuntu. Once i installed it and i was not able to change screen resolution,play vidos and other display settings. My friend told me to install video driver from software centre. But there were many drivers under display category. i was confused which to install or detect for my computer. My pc config is core i3 2011 sandybridge, intel dh61ww motherboard and 4 gb ddr3 ram.
<brobostigon> newtoubuntu: the importent factor, what is the graphics card and chipset?
<chrome_> I want to switch to ubuntu. Once i installed it and i was not able to change screen resolution,play vidos and other display settings. My friend told me to install video driver from software centre. But there were many drivers under display category. i was confused which to install or detect for my computer. My pc config is core i3 2011 sandybridge, intel dh61ww motherboard and 4 gb ddr3 ram.
<chrome_> sorry 13 2100 sandybridga
<chrome_> I want to switch to ubuntu. Once i installed it and i was not able to change screen resolution,play vidos and other display settings. My friend told me to install video driver from software centre. But there were many drivers under display category. i was confused which to install or detect for my computer. My pc config is core i3 2100 sandybridge, intel dh61ww motherboard and 4 gb ddr3 ram.Plz tell what to do
<Azelphur> you've asked about video drivers but you havn't specified your graphics card in specs :P
<chrome_> no additional card, it uses inbuilt shared graphics memory
<Azelphur> ok so integrated intel, graphics drivers are shipped with the OS, you don't have to install anything
<Azelphur> :D
<Azelphur> how exactly are you unable to change the resolution?
<chrome_> but i m unable to change display resolution,play videos (although i install codecs)?
<Azelphur> !elaborate | chrome_
<lubotu3> chrome_: Please elaborate, your question or issue may not seem clear or detailed enough for people to help you. Please give more detailed information, errors, steps, and possibly configuration files (use the !pastebin to avoid flooding the channel)
<Azelphur> In this case, steps and errors are needed :)
<chrome_> ok, i will continue later . thanks a lot to all of you.
<chrome_> What to do if computer hangs ? Is there any  choice other than restarting computer?
<Azelphur> depends what type of hang, most hangs can be debugged and fixed rather than doing something ugly
<brobostigon> chrome_: yes loads, dpends on what kind of hang it is, and in which component ?
<Azelphur> chrome_: if push comes to shove, before hitting the reset button, try holding ALT and SysRq and while holding them type REISUB
<Azelphur> that's a bit safer than a hard reboot, but still not ideal
<chrome_> Plz dont mind what is sysRq and REISUB?
<brobostigon> chrome_: sysrq, is a key on your keyboard, and as Azelphur said, reiusb is something you type with those keys depressed.
<Azelphur> chrome_: http://kember.net/articles/reisub-the-gentle-linux-restart/
<chrome_> Sysrq is which key? i just know alt,ctrl,shift,del,enter,......etc    i cant found it anywhere on keyboard.
<Azelphur> chrome_: should be to the right of F12, above insert
<chrome_> it is print screen key
<chrome_> r they same?
<Azelphur> yep
<chrome_> ok
 * Azelphur wanders off to find food
<chrome_> is there any program similar to task manager in windows which can be used to end programs forcefully?
<Azelphur> chrome_: yep, system > administration > system monitor
<chrome_> can it be used when system hangs?
<brobostigon> chrome_: again, depends on what is hanging,
<chrome_> what is difference between gnome and kda?Does it matter for a new user like me?
<AlanBell> I would suggest sticking to gnome for a bit
<brobostigon> the resource usage is different, the frontend, ie the gui is different, loads of other differences, also like the WM.
<daubers> Evening
<MartijnVdS> \o
<brobostigon> o/
 * brobostigon gets MartijnVdS a bottle of his franziskaner.
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<brobostigon> :)
<bigcalm> Is there a simple way of changing a machine's hostname? I don't just mean "sudo hostname new_hostname", everywhere in all configs
 * MartijnVdS has some good lasagna :)
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: grep -r "old hostname" /etc
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: (/etc/hostname and /etc/hosts in my case, ignore printcap.. maybe) -- then reboot
<brobostigon> also some of the configs in your home dir, might have recordings, like bonjours config.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: but those will adapt automagically?
<MartijnVdS> I think?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: that is what i wasnt sure of.
<MartijnVdS> or they'll be ignored because they think you're on another machine
<MartijnVdS> just re-set the settings :)
<brobostigon> good pointm, yes, :)
<bigcalm> Humm. Will try again then :)
<zleap> hello
<brobostigon> mythbuntu advertising on gadget show. :)
<The_Fred> hi
<The_Fred> if ubuntu had voice commands, what would you like your pc to do?
<brobostigon> send commands into irssi.
<The_Fred> thats a start
<The_Fred> I was thinking of using xdotool to identify windows and enter commands into the target window
<shauno> I think voice would only really be sensible if you started from the ground up
<brobostigon> integration, yes.
<The_Fred> I realise thiswould be a big project, so I'm considering starting an open source project so everyone can contribute
<hamitron> voice? like with a Microphone?
<shauno> with my apple-fanboy hat on; the reason the iphone & ipad made a splash, is because instead of trying to make existing software thumb-compatible, they started afresh with thumbs in mind
<The_Fred> not exactly, I've developed an android app that sends a text file of recognised speech
<shauno> I think done properly, voice would need the same start.  rather than trying to navigate a wimp gui by speech
<brobostigon> The_Fred: the issue, as shauno implied, it would need deep integreation, into every common application somehow, and that is a huge project.
<The_Fred> agreed
<hamitron> my parents often mis-hear me, so I not got much hope for my comp ;)
<The_Fred> the current program i'm owrking on compares the speech recognised, as sent by the droid phone (via Btooth), against a list of sentences that youmay have ACTUALLY said...
<The_Fred> since its obvious that deep integration would be a massive effort, I'm considering using what is at hand that works, and thus I'm looking at you, xdotool...
<The_Fred> it would not be perfect, but I think it would be effective
<gord> well... i mean, because of the work done with the appmenu in ubuntu, all the commands in all your menus are sent across dbus, you could match spoken words to those fairly well
<gord> they are translated in to upteenmillion languages too
<The_Fred> thats good to know gord
<The_Fred> At the moment I have working: open email, play hbr1.com, open $programName, Inset text... the rest im still building
<brobostigon> good night, sleep well.
<The_Fred> g,nite brobostigon
<brobostigon> nos da The_Fred
<freakyclown> evening all
<The_Fred> â
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Better Community With Better Technology (In Practice) - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/09/02/better-community-with-better-technology-in-practice/
<The_Fred> thats an interesting post
<ali1234> The_Fred: "computer, do all my work for me.."
<The_Fred> ali1234, hehehe, yea I've had a few responses like that..
<ali1234> an actual thing you might want is control of media player
<shauno> skype would be a great example in my house.  since it's going to be hands-off once I'm in a call.  being able to say "call mom" to initiate it would be pretty nifty
<ali1234> although really most of this stuff is better served by having a remote control UI on the phone
<The_Fred> I'm thinking more along the lines of: "use dictation for new email to boss"...
<The_Fred> The phone app is very simplistic - it simply does the job of using the google servers to turn the spoken words into a text string for ubuntu to work with
<ali1234> well the way i see it is like this
<The_Fred> [Voice recognition]----->google ------> text file ----> bluetooth tx ------> ubuntu
<ali1234> voice control of a computer is a lot more like using a command line than using a gui
<The_Fred> yea
<ali1234> but the problem with existing command lines is they are very fragile
<ali1234> one wrong punctuation and the whole thing blows up
<ali1234> so the problem here is one of making a command line interface that works with natural languages
<ali1234> which is of course a hard AI problem
<The_Fred> so, some form of macro or meta-programming for matching desktop actions to a list of commands
<ali1234> or else you are just making a long winded way of pressing a button
<The_Fred> I've looked into neural nets, and there is a lot that *could* be done, but i am only one man....
<ali1234> well the problem is you need to make it unambiguous
<ali1234> but then it isn't natural
<ali1234> and DWIM machines tend to have unexpected consequences
<The_Fred> the odd thing it that my ohone picks up very well when one speaks like your casting a spell - it heard word-perfect when sampling part of a harry potter film
<The_Fred> what do you mean by DWIM?
<ali1234> Do What I Mean
<The_Fred> ah! ta
<ali1234> http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/D/DWIM.html
<ali1234> i bet google trained their algorithm using movies soundtrack vs subtitles
<ali1234> that's what i'd do :)
<The_Fred> they did a voice search over telephone for a long time, and its reckoned that the main goal of the effort was to create a wide ranging voice model
<ali1234> yes, i've tried it on android
<ali1234> of course it goes over the internet now, but it is the same thing
<ali1234> but they had to start somewhere
<The_Fred> I think they've done a good job, and i found myself wihing my ubuntu oc could do the same things... so i started to make it so
<The_Fred> *wishing
 * The_Fred curses his usb keyboard for spelling mistooks
<ali1234> tbh i feel rather self-conscious when talking to a computer, and it makes me cringe when i see other people doing it
<The_Fred> there's been times when i'm laid up with a d back that i dont want to move at all, and voice actions would be invaluable, no doubt there are similar usefull scenarios
<The_Fred> *a bad back
<ali1234> media control seems an obvious choice that most people could use
<ali1234> "computer, play some jazz"
<ali1234> or w/e
<The_Fred> yea, could get a mp3 file tag search built
<ali1234> or home automation
<ali1234> basically anything you see on star trek
<The_Fred> when i think of home automation, i think of Tony Starks 'Jarvis'....
<ali1234> i have not seen that film :)
<The_Fred> its a great film, worth a big bucket of pop-corn
<ali1234> i typed "tony stark jarvis" into google and the second suggested result was "tony stark jarvis slash"
<ali1234> wtf am i reading?
<The_Fred> nah, search ironman
<The_Fred> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCSgkUnlGGA
<The_Fred> that link is for Linux - Gnome Voice Control 0.2 - Speech Recognition
<ali1234> seems bad
<The_Fred> its not the best eh?
<The_Fred> but they made a start - i think that the main problem there is the chaps accent
<ali1234> see the problem there is it's all one word commands
<ali1234> if you go for something more abstract you can work with context
<The_Fred> i found that in the case of using single words the accuracy of speech recognition goes way out the window
<The_Fred> it they use "computer, edit" it works better
<The_Fred> yea context, modes, and profiles would be useful
<The_Fred> just wondering if voice commands could be structured with intents like android, you inform the pc that you intend to do action X, with program Y, and give it a voice command label
<ali1234> i don't understand
<ali1234> if you are doing commands like "play music" then there are already APIs available to do that using whatever default media player the user chose
#ubuntu-uk 2011-09-03
<The_Fred> yes, thats true as far as media players and the such goes, but its lacking in terms of extensibility
<HazRPG> time to update to flash 11b2 64-bit... see if its getting any better than the previous beta versions (how did it go from 10 to 11 without having a 10th release??)
<HazRPG> interesting, it still gets listed as "11.0.d1" inside of chrome's task manager
<HazRPG> also saddens me that it still runs using up 154M of Private Memory :/
<HazRPG> fullscreen still broke on dual-head systems too
<HazRPG> *sigh*
<HazRPG> I think I'm expecting too much with this...
<MartijnVdS> \o/ closed-source software :P
<HazRPG> lol
<HazRPG> indeed
<HazRPG> am I missing something... http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/oneiric/beta-1/
<HazRPG> what happened to "-alternate-amd64"
<HazRPG> for those without a mac...
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: try http://releases.ubuntu.com/oneiric/
<MartijnVdS> (or <countrycode>.releases.ubuntu.com)
<HazRPG> o.O cos that's not confusing at all
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: all releases are on releases.ubuntu.com -- cdimage contains dailies and uncommon stuff
<HazRPG> ha
<HazRPG> ah*
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: thanks :)
<HazRPG> I always hit cdimage.* in the past (in fact the main ubuntu page points you to cdimage.*)
<MartijnVdS> it does?
<MartijnVdS> does anyone else have problems playing Flash sound + "other" sound on oneiric?
<MartijnVdS> because I have..
<shauno> MartijnVdS: #ubuntu+1  :p
<MartijnVdS> shauno: meh, maybe someone knew :)
<shauno> trying to be funny :)  it's a bit hit & miss at 7am :/
<MartijnVdS> I'm trying a purge & reinstall atm :)
<shauno> (and ubuntu.com seems to send me to the right place for images.  google, however, rates cdimage.u.c pretty highly)
<HazRPG> could have been google where I got it from... I forget... its that time of morning
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: MOAR CAFFEINES
<HazRPG> also, I think I'm too much of a data-horde... I've just set off a dl of 4 different images of the same thing
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I has Mountain Dew ;D
<shauno> silly wow-addicts.  *hoard.
<HazRPG> shauno: says you... I haven't played in since Dec ^_^
<shauno> but I still speak english :)
<HazRPG> <== I speak holycowitsmorning :)
<HazRPG> besides, as the ol' say goes... pebkac :)
<shauno> homophones.  how do they work.
<HazRPG> shauno: ex-squeeze me?!
<HazRPG> words with different sounds?
<HazRPG> or rather spelling != sound
<shauno> quite the opposite.
<HazRPG> or something like that
<HazRPG> spelling =~ sound sorry
<HazRPG> anyone else noticed the new ubuntu-variant "Dream Studio"?
<HazRPG> bah, I should really root my darn phone
<HazRPG> stupid <20MB free annoyances :/
<MartijnVdS> ?
<MartijnVdS> ah
<MartijnVdS> uninstall some unused apps :)
<HazRPG> I wish I had apps that were unused to remove
<MartijnVdS> I've _never_ had space problems on my phone -- but I remove everything I don't use >1 week
<HazRPG> main offenders are however facebook and google+ for the simple fact that they use up ~15MB each and can't be moved to SD
 * MartijnVdS has facebook is only 7 here
<HazRPG> hmm...
<MartijnVdS> also, I have ~50MB free out of ~196
<shauno> are you guys stuffing them to the brim with music? or â¦ 196?  MB?
<MartijnVdS> shauno: Music is always on the SD
<MartijnVdS> shauno: 196MB, yes
<MartijnVdS> \o/ N1
<MartijnVdS> (190 MB application storage) according to Wikipedia
<shauno> glad I don't have android then :/
<MartijnVdS> Why?
<HazRPG> 14.52MB here
<MartijnVdS> newer phones have several GB application storage
<shauno> because that seems like an incredibly silly limitation
<MartijnVdS> the model is 19 months old!
<HazRPG> I was just about to say...
<MartijnVdS> I'm waiting for the next Google OfficialÂ® phone
<HazRPG> 14.52MB for facebook (1.5.4), with 4.80MB being application, and 9.71MB being data...
<HazRPG> intrigued why its using 9.71 on data...
<MartijnVdS> Too many friends :P
<HazRPG> clearly o.O
<shauno> penny pinching MBs wasn't normal 14 months ago either :p
<MartijnVdS> shauno: Sure but they fixed that with the Nexus S already
<HazRPG> shauno: trust me... this whole "penny pinching MB's" just reminds me of the 80's man o.O
<shauno> I keep running out of space in 32GB.  <256MB sounds more like my first mp3 player.  more than 10 years ago
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Downside to the Nexus S is no external-card support though
<MartijnVdS> shauno: it's just application storage
<MartijnVdS> shauno: Media is on an SD card
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: I don't need >32GB really
<HazRPG> shauno: that's just internal memory, which was designed initially just for O/S gumph
<HazRPG> shauno: problem lies with the app creators not allowing their apps to be installed to /sdcard
<HazRPG> worst contenders are the free apps (or specifically games)
<shauno> it sounds more like the bog-standard "it's okay to be horrendously broken, because it's 'open'" to me
<HazRPG> I feel its their way of saying "if you want to preserve your free space so you can actually update apps, then buy our paid version so you can put it onto SD"
<HazRPG> shauno: blame the hardware manufacturers... they're the ones modelling it this way
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: those apps get lots of one-star reviews though
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: ah, second main contender of my apps is Google Maps o.O
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: wipe user data?
<HazRPG> GMaps uses only 1.51MB of user data though :/
<MartijnVdS> google earth is huge
<HazRPG> yeah, but that installs to SD ^_^
<MartijnVdS> only half of it does
<HazRPG> ouch
<HazRPG> I keep wondering if flash is really needed on my phone... barely browse the web on this
<HazRPG> and if I do, its not flash sites
<shauno> not sure I'll ever get used to them painting debconf pink
<HazRPG> oh well, flash getting removed
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: does android store tmp stuff that doesn't purge itself?
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: i.e. the updates for apps
<MartijnVdS> the packages? no
<MartijnVdS> only the installed files
<HazRPG> just trying to work out what's going on with this thing
<HazRPG> oh well that's google skymap gone too
<MartijnVdS> Skymap is nice
<HazRPG> tis, but I barely get to use it
<MartijnVdS> but you're in Cumbria
<MartijnVdS> you have clear dark skies
<MartijnVdS> or you're supposed to, anyway
<HazRPG> I wish I could get rid of google googles, that just seems pointless, I used it once... and that was when it was in beta... but now it just simply refused to remove itself (you can only remove the updates)
<MartijnVdS> Goggles? I use it as a barcode scanner
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: you must be confused with somewhere else, we have cloud coverings (or rain) at least 75% of the time
<HazRPG> I use the barcode scanner as a barcode scanner ^_^
<MartijnVdS> 2 apps for 1 purpose \o/
<HazRPG> lol
 * MartijnVdS is off for a 10is mile run
<MartijnVdS> (16ish km for those keeping count)
<HazRPG> :P
<HazRPG> just for fun?
<MartijnVdS> Yeah, also a bit of training for http://damloop.nl/
<HazRPG> ah cool, good luck :)
<MartijnVdS> (ron from Amsterdam to Zaandam, 2 weeks from now)
<HazRPG> woo 34MB free! \o/
<HazRPG> and now my phone is spazzing out cos it can now update all the remaining apps and finally sync stuff up o.O
<HazRPG> I've just heard the notification sound at least 8 times now XD
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<MartijnVdS> pixie dust :)
<HazRPG> heh I use "On The Hunt"
<HazRPG> and "Ta Da" for calendar stuff :)
<MartijnVdS> Pixie Dust, but caffeinated rattlesnake for Google Talk
<MartijnVdS> and Captains Log for twitter
<HazRPG> I don't recall what I use for GTalk
<HazRPG> emails are different too
<MartijnVdS> anyway. Running. :)
<HazRPG> literally ^_^
<HazRPG> catch ya later, have fun :)
<HazRPG> interesting, purging the facebook data seems to have shrunk it down to 7.02MB
<MartijnVdS> back
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msa=0&msid=214448722339818589968.0004ac0531f85492a2c87
<MartijnVdS> Total Distance: 14.91 km (9.3 mi)
<MartijnVdS> :(
<MartijnVdS> wanted to do a bit more, but then I got home :)
<HazRPG> considering you did that in less than 2hrs, I must say 'grats :)
<MartijnVdS> heh
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: I did it in less than 1:30:00 :)
<MartijnVdS> ("total moving time: 1:28:48")
<HazRPG> nice :)
<HazRPG> (I was basing off timestamps on irc ^_^)
<MartijnVdS> 8-)
<HazRPG> I'm guessing your first leg was where you stressed yourself the most, @16.91km/h max speed ^_^
<MartijnVdS> that might just be the GPS getting up to speed
<HazRPG> rest of them average out
<MartijnVdS> or a downhill bit
<HazRPG> possibly :)
<MartijnVdS> Time for some fresh teA
<MartijnVdS> (Stop! Kettle time!)
<HazRPG> hehe
<HazRPG> its work time in the hazworkplaceâ¢
<MartijnVdS> Work? on a Saturday?
<HazRPG> yup
<HazRPG> rollout needs to happen asap
<HazRPG> plus... sooner I get it out... sooner I get paid... the more relaxation time I can has afterwards ^_^
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MartijnVdS> hi brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi MartijnVdS o/
<Pernig> morning
<brobostigon> hi Pernig
 * MartijnVdS considers some early afternoon sleep
<MartijnVdS> Running 15km takes a lot of energy :)
<brobostigon> :) yes.
<shauno> they're doing an ironman thingie here tomorrow.  daft buggers
<MartijnVdS> shauno: Those people are strange :)
<MartijnVdS> though I could have gone to 20km, if I'd taken enough water with me
<shauno> "1.9-km swim in Galway Bay, 90K cycle, 21.1K run", according to one chap who's doing it tomorrow morning
<MartijnVdS> ouch
<MartijnVdS> that's a half marathon then I guess
<MartijnVdS> (full is 42.something km)
<MartijnVdS> yeah 42.195km
<shauno> I have a hangover planned for tomorrow.  seems much more sensible.
<Pernig> haha
<MartijnVdS> (stereotype note: shauno seems to be Irish, or at least in Ireland :)
<shauno> wifi at the office is proper dodgy today :/
<shauno> only thing worse than a captive portal, is a senile one
<Myrtti> do you British people appreciate the food that you produce or sell in your stores that is really, really quintessentially British? I'm sitting here, nibbling a dry-cured oak-smoked bacon rasher, I've got some nice cheddar with cheddar biccies waiting, and I'm absolutely adoring my elderflower cordial
<Myrtti> or is most of this stuff just run of the mill, business as usual, 'never thought about it being special' kind of stuff
<Myrtti> (just wondering)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: morning dude ^_^
<tris2468> Myrtti: it's kind of normal
<Myrtti> am I being too philosophical early in the morning?
<tris2468> I love elderflower cordial
<HazRPG> Pernig: hey \o
<shauno> I'm the wrong person to answer; haven't lived in the UK for 10 years now.  but when I was stuck in the states, I'd spend silly amounts trying to hunt down hp sauce, tea that actually tasted of tea, etc
<Pernig> definitely not the stuff you'd generally buy in Tesco haha
<Pernig> hi Haz
<tris2468> some of that stuff you have to get in proper shops like farm shops and stuff
<brobostigon> HazRPG: good morning :)
<Myrtti> oh you can find this in Tesco if you are vigilant ;-)
<tris2468> Myrtti: where did you get it? Did you take it back after oggcamp?
<Myrtti> but you see, you wouldn't find *any* of this stuff in a big supermarket in Finland, apart from some rare occasion when there is _Cathedral_ _City_ cheddar in there
<Myrtti> tris2468: I'm flying tomorrow :-<
<tris2468> Ah OK, I didn't know you were still here
<Pernig> cathedral city
<Myrtti> still here tho \o/
<Pernig> that's pretty nice
<Pernig> believe it or not farmhouse cheese was extinct after WWII
<Pernig> there were only three recipes left
<tris2468> Pernig: wow I never knew that
<Myrtti> I absolutely adore the fruit and veg section in almost any decent sized supermarket in UK
<HazRPG> Myrtti: hmm, that's a tough one... I pretty much live off pizza half the time... that and tuna sandwiches!
<Myrtti> when I'm alone in Finland I wish I had the fruit portion options of UK, and the quacamoles and salsas
<Myrtti> I don't like tin pineapple, and I don't want to buy a whole pineapple either
<Myrtti> so... I have no pineapple
<HazRPG> Myrtti: Welcome to the UK, home of the ready-meals ^_^ (or as the american's call it, TV Dinners)
<Pernig> i wonder if you could freeze pineapple
<HazRPG> Pernig: sure can :) - you can freeze anything!
<shauno> I love getting pineapples whole.  they're good fun to hack apart
<Pernig> freezers are my new favourite invention
<Myrtti> HazRPG: well atleast your ready-meals are fairly decent and there's plenty of choice
<Pernig> when margarine is on offer i buy loads and freeze them all haha
<HazRPG> Pernig: same, except I want a bigger one... just so I can store more food stuffs!
<Myrtti> HazRPG: I'm blown away with the ready-meal options of chinese and indian etc in the supermarkets - nothing like that in Finland, not in that scale
<Pernig> i bought a beef risotto from home bargains for 49 pence the other day
<HazRPG> Myrtti: I think its mainly because we British are breed to be lazy :P
<Pernig> freeze dried job
<Pernig> it was pretty nice!
<Pernig> i think next time i will buy two though
<HazRPG> Myrtti: some of my friends who live on farms, or live out in the country side swear by making stuff at home (and I can't blame them, when they can cook that good!)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: i have to cook mostly from scratch, as alot of the premade stuff, has things i am alllergic to.
<HazRPG> Myrtti: Although, I know exactly what you mean. When I lived in Saudi it was basically "don't know how to cook, get yourself a happy meal instead" type thing... which sucks :(
<Myrtti> HazRPG: yeah I love to cook, but there are days and times that it's impossible to cook
<HazRPG> Pernig: heh, nice... might have to try and see if I can get me some of that!
<HazRPG> Myrtti: Quick trick I learned in Saudi... get a big freezer, learn to cook in big quantities, store in freezer :)
<Myrtti> yeah, my apartment in Finland doesn't have a freezer tho :-<
<HazRPG> :(
<HazRPG> Myrtti: not at all?
<Myrtti> never bothered the landlord to replace my fridge
<shauno> for me, it'd be closer to "get a big freezer - climb in it!".  I'd melt in saudi :/
<Pernig> shame you are in an apartment, if you had a garden you could just put things outside in winter :P
<HazRPG> brobostigon: ouch dude, that must suck :( - although I feel your pain, my favourite food group (cheese) is slowly starting to not sit in my stomach much these days :(
<Myrtti> Pernig: I do have a glazed balcony, which I use to keep my old guineapig stuff :-D
<brobostigon> HazRPG: yes, it is, but it allows for alot more creativity in my part. :). that aint good to hear, :(
<HazRPG> brobostigon: started drinking black coffee as a result too... and not eating cereal (or at least not with milk)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: yes, makes sense.
<Myrtti> HazRPG: hmmm are you sure about the cheese? if it's lactose intolerance then cheese shouldn't cause any symptoms
<HazRPG> shauno: no need, air-con fits that bill ;D
<Myrtti> (given it's been matured long enough)
<sagaci> is there an #ubuntu-uk-chat or similar that isn't logged
<Myrtti> sagaci: no.
<Myrtti> why?
<HazRPG> Myrtti: hmm... I've always had problems stomaching anything with cheese in it... its just getting worse with time... milk never use to affect me, but it is now... sadly :(
<sagaci> I'm usually in the ubuntu-au team channel and currently we have an -au and -au-chat, -chat being not logged. Just trying to gauge if any other teams do what we do
<HazRPG> Myrtti: I know my mum became lactose intolerant (when she was like 30 odd)... seems I'm getting the same, however I think on the cheese front, I think its more to do with the fact that its (as you said) matured
<shauno> sagaci: I'm curious, do you end up with people chatting in both channels?
<HazRPG> heh sagaci killed the convo ^_^
<HazRPG> ...bah! I'm hungry now o.O
<sagaci> kinda, there was discussion on our mailing list over a year ago but I came to the party late and didn't realise how it was all structured, it's just that I find the -au-chat fairly redundant since we're don't get that much chat in the "main" channel anyhow
<shauno> that's what I thought would happen :/
<shauno> either one channel would 'win', or you'd have a divisive split between the holier-than-thou in the logged channel, and the black helicopter types in the other
<sagaci> and there's been times where I've said something worth logging in the chat channel and it's been lost since it's not a logged channel :/
<HazRPG> sagaci: yeah, that sort of thing does happen... you essentially split the community up by doing that, you make them feel like they *can't* talk in the normal channel unless its on-topic
<shauno> (to completely stereotype each end of the scale)
<Pernig> back soon guys, stuff to do :\
<HazRPG> Pernig: gl;hf;
<sagaci> it's just that you come into this channel and there can be "on-topic" stuff and there can be cheese stomach problems, which I think it's how it should be since main support is in #ubuntu and official channels
<HazRPG> shauno: heh, that's a anon/known stereotype your making there (either that or: black hat vs white hat)
<shauno> nah, the black helicopter / tinfoil hat types are older than the internet :)
<HazRPG> sagaci: agreed :)
<HazRPG> shauno: ah, heh
<shauno> I think it should be this way.  as long as people know to shelf their cheese if they're getting in the way of on-topic discussion
<HazRPG> shauno: most do :)
<shauno> otherwise would be a bit strange having a 'community' that discourages getting to know each other
<HazRPG> its rare to see off-topic when people is having issues (well minus any trolls)
<Myrtti> sagaci: Finnish loco has HORDE of channels, including a chat channel - but I can't remember which of them are logged and which are not
<sagaci> because I find it a bit hard to figure out what's on-topic and what's not and what's worth logging and what's classified as "rubbish"
<HazRPG> sagaci: that's just it though, its all subjective
<HazRPG> what I find that might be "interesting" or "on-topic" might not be
<sagaci> yeah, I might bring it up
<HazRPG> sagaci: worth bring it up, if anything - worst that'll happen is that they'll keep *-chat
<HazRPG> Myrtti: ah, but we also have other channels... e.g. #ubuntu-uk-minecraft
<HazRPG> however #ubuntu-uk-minecraft makes sense though
<Myrtti> HazRPG: I know that one, I suggested it :-)
<sagaci> yeah, i'll wget the logs from the past 6 months and see what's kind of average/mode I get for lines of chat on each day
<HazRPG> Myrtti: I know you did, I was there ;)
<HazRPG> sagaci: do they not already have a script that does that already?
<sagaci> maybe they do
<HazRPG> bah, apparently ours is gone with the new site
<HazRPG> popey, AlanBell: What happened to the "common words" and "common phrases" section of our logs?
<HazRPG> I could have sworn there use to be one...
<HazRPG> sagaci: ah wait, here it is: http://ubuntu-uk.org/ircstats/
<HazRPG> I was just looking for the wrong thing ^_^
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG spoke a total of 5294 words!
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG talks to him/herself a lot. He/She wrote over 5 lines in a row 5 times!
<shauno> and if you go to the bottom, "HazRPG talks to him/herself a lot", which explains half of them :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: haha, apparently we're both the most chatty :P
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: apparently, you sleep between 18-23 :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: that's probably more likely when I'm working :P
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: so when do you sleep? :)
<HazRPG> varies
<HazRPG> I sleep maybe 3-6hrs a day
<shauno> heh, I'd like to see a computer guess when I sleep :)
<HazRPG> shauno: well this computer is well off... because I'm usually gibbering away to you between 18-23 :P
<shauno> *18-5
<MartijnVdS> 0-24
<shauno> lol
<HazRPG> this one made me lul: shaunoÂ is also a sad person, crying 11.6% of the time.
<shauno> he's funny sometimes.  I'll wake up to find 5 hours worth of babble, finished with "oh wait, you said you were going to sleep"
<HazRPG> shauno: rofl, not always XD
<shauno> no, sometimes you're still going when I wake up
<HazRPG> I just forget some people sleep more than me o.O
<MartijnVdS> (or at all)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: You still think I'm a bot don't you :P
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: There is a possibility ;)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Ah, I just thought, some nites I play SC2 at around the 18-23 mark :) - usually my mumble server is full around those hours
<sagaci> so is ubuntu-uk.org Canonical hosted or by the virtue of someone here?
<shauno> I believe it's on a vps donated by the vendor
<HazRPG> well we're an official LoCo
<HazRPG> that's as much as I know...
<HazRPG> oh, we have a mumble server too iirc
<HazRPG> (on same said vps)
<shauno> I thought mumble was on one of mr Bell's german boxes
<HazRPG> shauno: ah, could be actually...
<shauno> (I pay attention to the oddest details.  leftover from my stalker days :)
<HazRPG> never anyone on it though sadly :(
<jacobw> o.o
<AlanBell> HazRPG: nothing to do with me
<HazRPG> AlanBell: Hmm?
<AlanBell> the stats
<HazRPG> ah, oh... yeah I found them, I was looking for the wrong keywords
<Lcawte> Hmm, anyone know the best places I can drum up some interest for the Ubuntu Gaming Team... mainly marketing with little bits of everything else on the side...
<HazRPG> I was expecting them to show up at the top under "today's chatter"
<HazRPG> Lcawte: best bet is on a mailing list of some sort I think...
<shauno> when I take over the world, whoever came up with Lotus Notes gets a 3 minute head start.  grrrrrr.
<HazRPG> Lcawte: https://lists.ubuntu.com/
<HazRPG> Lcawte: probably best targeting the LoCo's since those tend to be a bit more generalised, rather than having a topic set
 * Lcawte spams #ubuntu-uk
<penguin42> shauno: That's much too generous
<shauno> oh it's purely to make the hunt more entertaining for me
<jacobw> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-14771361
<jacobw> :(
<HazRPG> Lcawte: this might be worth a try too: http://icculus.org/lgfaq/#istherea
<HazRPG> shauno: heh, lotus in general use to annoy me
<shauno> my folders are out of sync with the server.  so I have folders that are labelled as having 5 unread, but don't contain anything at all :/
<HazRPG> pizza in over, 15mins and count to nom time \o/
<HazRPG> s/count/counting/*
<brobostigon> oven*
<HazRPG> that too
<HazRPG> one of those days
<brobostigon> :)
<HazRPG> so hoping my code does crap on itself when I try to run it later
<brobostigon> fingers crossed.
<HazRPG> (from spelling errors)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: :)
<brobostigon> :)
 * HazRPG makes bash script to make pizza cook faster
<brobostigon> :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: been doing a lot of bash stuff recently, since shauno showed me the way to ~/bin/
<brobostigon> ah, i see. ok.
<shauno> there used to be a script hanging around that'd order pizzas from dominos
<gord> there should be a "buy developer a pizza button" on launchpad
<HazRPG> gord: heh, now that would be pretty smart :P
<HazRPG> gord: although, could you imagine a pizza randomly turning up at your office/home at random times of the day... several times a day (if you were a popular dev)... that would get insane o.O
<HazRPG> would be funnier to see the pizzaman's face more than anything
<gord> HazRPG, there are always uses for pizza!
<HazRPG> gord: like pizza trading? (the developers gameâ¢)
<HazRPG> hmm, oven timer lied! It said pizza was done (when its not!). o.O
<HazRPG> trying to populate 21 (tabbed and padded out) sql statements in php is not cool o.O
<HazRPG> just managed to finish it... but still... not cool!
<HazRPG> 50% pizza eaten complete :)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alistair McKinlay] To patent or not to patent - http://www.10people.co.uk/index.php/2011/09/to-patent/
<HazRPG> bah, see I hate patents for this reason... patents now are just another "allows us to sue" mechanism
<MartijnVdS> always have been
<MartijnVdS> but now the economy is worse, and companies need money harder
<shauno> I think they're sensible in theory.  but that theory is long since out the window
<MartijnVdS> ooh new Doctor tonight.. and a scary one too it seems
<exobuzz> uk demo party next weekend - http://www.sunrisedemoparty.co.uk/
<shauno> why did I have in my head that dr who was sundays :/
<MartijnVdS> shauno: maybe when you were young..? :)
<hamitron> anyone know if you get cut off from your mobile provider, if you have lost the number?
<hamitron> :/
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: do you still get bills?
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: you should be able to find everything you need on them
<hamitron> it is payg
<MartijnVdS> ah
<MartijnVdS> won't it just expire after a while then?
<hamitron> it seems like it has
<hamitron> but they never txt or wrote to me
<hamitron> just dead
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: "dead" as in "can't connect to network"?
<hamitron> yeh
<MartijnVdS> Is it one of the big providers? I'd ask in their shop.
<hamitron> it is orange
<StevenR> hamitron: multi-location issues?
<MartijnVdS> Ask in an Orange store :)
<hamitron> there is no orange store locally
<StevenR> hamitron: I had trouble in one place once
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: isn't Orange T-Mobile now?
<hamitron> I dunno tbh
 * hamitron shrugs
<hamitron> I had this number for 14 years and never changed
<StevenR> reported it, they blamed my phone, I told them that was clearly not the phone. They phoned a week later with "yeah, um, sorry, our transmitter is bust"
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: you could call their help desk from another phone
<hamitron> I maybe should
<hamitron> :/
<StevenR> hamitron: do you have another orange phone nearby (friend's/etc) ?
<hamitron> no
<StevenR> or T-mobile
<hamitron> no
<hamitron> haha
<MartijnVdS> can you "scan networks"?
<StevenR> hamitron: when did it stop working?
<hamitron> StevenR: sometime in the last week
<StevenR> hamitron: have you been to other locations in that time?
<hamitron> I only really look at it when it rings
<hamitron> no
<hamitron> :)
<StevenR> hmm
<MartijnVdS> did you add balance in the last few months?
<hamitron> "SIM Card registration failed"
<hamitron> on reboot of phone
<StevenR> do you have another phone you can try with that sim, an old one maybe?
<hamitron> MartijnVdS: no
<hamitron> and no
<hamitron> :/
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: that would be it then
<StevenR> hamitron: could be the cell is full, depending where you are?
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: they reset the "used" counter only when you give them money
<MartijnVdS> at least, they do here
<hamitron> MartijnVdS: so i lost the number?
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: you might be able to get it back if you call the help desk and ask nicely and/or use a different phone to add balance
<MartijnVdS> I don't know
<hamitron> I feel like telling them to f' off anyway
<hamitron> haha
<hamitron> I don't exactly need a phone
<hamitron> just would be polite to let me know if they were going to cut it off
<hamitron> 07 number from a landline will cost more than it is worth imo
<hamitron> so probably just leave it
 * MartijnVdS has 2 months left on his Voda contract
<MartijnVdS> I hope the rumoured "Nexus Prime" will be out by then
<hamitron> "If you're visually impaired and can't read text messages, please call 0800 079 0006 to talk to us and we'll help "
<hamitron> I reckon I come under "can't read text messages"
<hamitron> since it is cut off
<hamitron> give that a go
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> brb
<shauno> alternatively, I can do a good impression of visual impaired, given enough scotch
 * StevenR still needs to buy a green robot telephone
 * mgdm has a green robot *and* a green robot phone
<MartijnVdS> shauno: so THAT's why they call it "blind drunk"
<hamitron> :D
<hamitron> I give up
<hamitron> it won't accept the word yes or no from me
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> damn voice recognisation
<shauno> keep forgetting you're a yorkshire lad :p
<hamitron> I am blessed ;/
<shauno> I have relatives near newcastle that I simply can't understand.  I don't really blame voice recognition sometimes
<popey> Afternooon all :D
<Lcawte> Good afternoon
<Lcawte> Hmm, why'd my GIMP freeze, I may have just lost my best bit of Ubuntu work yet ;P
<AlanBell>  /window 31
<shauno> and I thought I was an irc addict
<mgdm> I have 40-odd open just now
<AlanBell> I did prune some when I had over 100
<shauno> I prune as soon as I can't reach them all from meta1-0 :/
<ali1234> hamitron when did you last top up?
<ali1234> you should get a contract sim anyway, it is far better value
<ball> That reminds me, I need to top up my phone.
<ball> ali1234: I get better value from a pay-as-you-go with unlimited text and web.
<ali1234> how much better?
<Pernig> i bet you don't get a free phone though :P
<ali1234> t-mobile is Â£10/month for 100 minutes and 100 texts and 1 booster, where boost = unlimited internet or unlimited texts, and you also get a free phone (but only a cheapo one)
<ball> UKP 21.58/month for 300 mins talk and unlimited data.
<ball> Pernig: No, I had to pay a little bit for the phone.
<Pernig> that giffgaff looks quite interesting
<ali1234> that's not really better value :/
<ali1234> not if you rarely make calls anyway
<ball> ali1234: 300 mins is perfect for me.  If I used it less there are other options but I went from contract to PAYG.
<ball> ...because my contract carrier couldn't offer anything comparable.
<ball> How much is petrol today?
<ali1234> for Â£20/month t-mobile will give you 600 minutes, 500 texts, a booster, and a htc wildfire s (android)
<funkyHat> ali1234: 2 year contract?
<ball> ali1234: Unlimited data?
<hamitron> ali1234: probably a long time ago, I've put Â£5 on 7 times over 12 years
<ali1234> ball: you can choose "unlimited" internet as the booster, or some other things. you can switch each month too. so if going on holiday, you can switch it to cheap roaming
<ali1234> and yes, 2 year contract. so what? are you going to decide you don't want a mobile phone in 1 years time?
 * hamitron is deciding to have no phone as from now
<hamitron> ;)
 * Pernig is on a two year contract
<Pernig> just over one year in and fortunately my phone is still kind of current
<hamitron> if my work arrangements change to something where I am moving around a lot, I may consider a contract I suppose
<ball> UKP20/month isn't bad.  T-mobile don't offer anything like that over here.
<Pernig> mine is Â£35 :|
<hamitron> Pernig: your contract is as much as I've topped up in 12 years :-o
<hamitron> scarey
<Pernig> hamitron: it would be more if i were on pay as you go
<Pernig> not to mention the cost of the phone itself
<ball> That reminds me, I should top up.
<ball> Pernig: That's a one-off cost though.
<hamitron> I have had 3 phones to buy also
<Pernig> it's still a cost i'd rather not pay
<ball> Pernig: Provided you don't buy a new phone every year, it's probably not much of an issue.
<hamitron> so Â£170 for phones, and maybe another Â£100 for ngage games
<hamitron> :)
<Pernig> i will probably keep this phone once my contract runs out and go for a cheaper tarriff
<funkyHat> ali1234: just asking â¢). I'm on a 2 year contract with tmob too
<Pernig> last time i ended up making money when i upgraded due to selling the old phone :P
<ali1234> i could have sold the free phone i got, but decided to keep it for the spare battery which is the same as N900
<funkyHat> Pernig: not completely conviced that counts as making money ;P
<ali1234> could have sold it for like Â£60, which is 1/4 of the total cost of the contract
<Pernig> lol you're right funkyHat
<hamitron> funkyHat: agreed, there is a contract to pay off in the future :/
<funkyHat> ali1234: um... sounds like 1/8th to me?
<ali1234> no, because my contract was only Â£10/month
<funkyHat> ali1234: oh, thought you were talking about the Â£20/m one
<hamitron> can you buy numbers?
<funkyHat> hamitron: what do you mean?
<ali1234> i'll sell you a vowel
<hamitron> like buy a number, so nobody can take it off you
<Pernig> a phone number?
<hamitron> yeh, a phone #
<hamitron> :)
<Pernig> i guess if you keep your sim topped up or keep the same contract you can
<Pernig> i've had the same # for 5 years
<hamitron> I've had mine for 12 years
<hamitron> :/
<funkyHat> hamitron: how would someone be able to take a number off you?
<Pernig> lol
<hamitron> funkyHat: well, I've had the number for 12 years, and just failed to topup or spend or something
<hamitron> funkyHat: now they taken it off me
<funkyHat> hamitron: oh... don't know if there's anything you can do about that
<hamitron> by buying number, I mean to own the number then have control even if the contract is terminated, etc
<ali1234> they have to allow porting of numbers now
<ali1234> as long as you don't end the contract
<ali1234> which you did
<ali1234> so you are screwed
<hamitron> ali1234: they ended my contract without warning
<hamitron> ;/
<ali1234> he warning was in the contract
<ali1234> if you don't top up every few months, orange cut you off
<hamitron> yeh, so they have control over me with a contract
<hamitron> which is why i wonder about buying just a number
<ali1234> yes, but the contract gives you rights too, like the right to port the number
<ali1234> but once the contract ends you lose those rights
<ali1234> so yeah it works both ways
<ball> I had fun explaining rotary dial telephones to fork earlier this week.
<ball> She's six, but she cottoned onto it fairly quickly.
<ali1234> you can get a 0870 number for free
<Pernig> not seen one of those for a while
<ali1234> or a vanity one for a cost
<ball> I have a rotary dial app for my phone :-)
<ali1234> it costs people more to ring you though
<ali1234> anyway you can buy a number and just have it redirect
<hamitron> ali1234: but there is no way I could keep the number without transfering to another contract I assume?
<ali1234> there is no way you could use the number without being on a contract
<hamitron> yeh, I accept that
<hamitron> but I just don't want a number tied with the contract
<hamitron> in case they decide to terminate it again
<hamitron> tbh, not worth it
<hamitron> the fact they disconnected me, shows how much I use it
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> and my friends can't moan about me not taking my mobile phone with me now, as technically I don't have one
<hamitron> \o/
<shauno> I have an old phone like that.  I put a tenner on it each year just to keep the number active
<hamitron> I was going to, just forgot
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> I receive calls each week on it
<hamitron> not now though
<hamitron> ;)
<shauno> this one I just keep because I have the number forwarded to my real phone
<hamitron> hoenstly I don't care for a mobile really
<hamitron> honestly
<hamitron> but it is just the fact people always could contact me on this number, I find annoying
<Pernig> i do as i don't have a house phone :P
<penguin42> likes having google maps and reader on the go
<hamitron> I just have a landline
<hamitron> I like my DSL
<hamitron> :)
 * Pernig likes the neighbours' DSL
<hamitron> I wonder how many do that.... I know loads that do it
<hamitron> mine is secure ofc
<Pernig> it's my friend's and i chip in now and again so i'm not a complete scoundrel
<hamitron> yeh, most I know just take the piss tbh
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> take the mick I mean
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> all my neighbours stopped using WEP
<ali1234> i have no idea why
<hamitron> ali1234: warnings from your pr0n downloads? ;)
<hamitron> I not even got wifi
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> keep considering setting up wifi in 1 room
<hamitron> so can just casually use it
<hamitron> rather than have cables across the floor to the laptop
<ali1234> my wifi is only for people who aren't me
<ali1234> because wifi sucks
 * Pernig doesn't have much choice
<mgdm> Everything I own is connected by wifi, except for my TV and BD player, which are wired to wifi bridge
<gord> http://halytech.imgur.com/usb_secret#36p0D heh
<ball> Looks like petrol is 60p/litre today.
<Pernig> ball: where?
<hamitron> Pernig: can't use a landline?
 * funkyHat has wires where they make sense, wireless for laptops and phones
<ball> Pernig: Illinois, USA
<Pernig> lucky you!
<hamitron> mine was 144.9p today
<hamitron> :/
<Pernig> i could but it would mean paying for it, something i'm loathe to do
<Pernig> works out cheaper to chip in with the neighbours
<hamitron> Pernig: yeh
<hamitron> makes sense if you are happy with wifi
<Pernig> i'm not entirely happy to be honest
<hamitron> but when I personally tested wifi, the range was awful around the house
<hamitron> it was younger tech back then ofc
<hamitron> but it was going to cost Â£80 per AP
<Pernig> i am using N and it's managing to pick it up from another building
<hamitron> and I needed 4 or 5 of them
<Pernig> but it's got about 7M of USB extensions daisy chained to the computer
<hamitron> plus Â£25 for a network card
<ball> When I moved here 13 years ago petrol was just 21p/litre
<hamitron> instead I got 305m of CAT5e cable for Â£35
<ball> ...if only electric cars were more practical here.
<hamitron> :)
<ali1234> usb?
 * StevenR is working towards NoCommute :)
<Pernig> ali1234: from the computer to the wireless adaptor
<ball> hamitron: I'm able to cover all of my house with an 802.11n wireless access point
<ball> ...probably most of the garden too.
<hamitron> ball: I jsut find the walls stop wifi dead
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> my 802.11g covers about 2 houses in each direction
<ball> hamitron: Metal walls?
<hamitron> no
<ali1234> you people must live in drydocked oil tankers and 18th century mansions or something
<ball> ali1234: I haven't tested that ;-)
<penguin42> gord: Oh interesting - I've got a drive very like that
<Pernig> once you are in the next house the connection isn't too reliable though
<ali1234> i find the connection is unreliable even if you are under 1m from the AP
<ali1234> that's why i hate wifi
<ali1234> i get a better connection on bluetooth
<ali1234> even from another room
 * funkyHat has had virtually no problems with his 802.11g access point for about 5 years
<popey> Where I was on holiday there was no signal on any network at all
<Pernig> i think i'd rather have even wireless G than bluetooth
<popey> well, 3, orange, voda and o2
<Pernig> isn't is like 3mbps?
<popey> I had to walk up a hill to get any signal at all
<ali1234> something like that
<ali1234> but it disconnects less
<ali1234> popey: was it up hill both ways?
<popey> ya
<popey> in a little valley
<hamitron> grrrrr
<ball> Pernig: 3 megabits/sec for Bluetooth?
<Pernig> ball: yes i think for PAN
<ging> wifi is lame, i got myself a pair of homeplugs
<popey> http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=ashcombe,+devon&hl=en&ll=50.601776,-3.531402&spn=0.002935,0.003739&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=22.488769,30.629883&vpsrc=6&t=h&z=18
<popey> that building
<hamitron> I haven't tried 802.11n, but 802.11g stops dead
<Pernig> it depends what profile you are using
<ging> i might get another pair to join them
<hamitron> :/
<Pernig> object push would be more like 50KB/s
<ali1234> raw bluetooth sockets :)
<ging> hamitron: n is no better than g, it basicly just uses extra chanels at once to get more data
<ali1234> pretty much anything that uses AF_INET can be trivially converted to use bluetooth
<funkyHat> ging: I'm not keen on those really... for wired stuff I've put in regular ethernet, and they aren't any help for stuff I want to move around anyway
<Pernig> i find N has much better range than G
<StevenR> ging: that's not what I've found.
<funkyHat> I guess if you're not allowed to drill ethernet over power is probably the best option for fixed stuff though
<StevenR> hamitron: what are the walls made of?
<hamitron> brick
<hamitron> :/
<ging> Pernig: probably because the kit you have for N is better than the kit you had for G
<StevenR> hamitron: redbrick?
<ali1234> brick is easy
<hamitron> StevenR: a mixture of red brick, stone and chalk perhaps
<StevenR> hmmm
<Pernig> ging: maybe, it seems quite a coincidence though
<hamitron> I know some bits you can't drill through
<hamitron> :D
<ali1234> double plaster board, now that is annoying
<hamitron> I burnt out a drill, fitting ethernet around the house
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> trying to get the wire through the hole on the other side without making it an inch wide
<ging> Pernig: if you had 3 people shouting at you accross a field you've got slightly more chance of hearing them than if it was just 1, but not much
<hamitron> ali1234: indeed :)
<ball> I should rewire my house for gigabit, but there are other things that need doing first.
 * hamitron is considering the jump to 1gbit soon
<StevenR> hamitron: how thick are the walls?
<StevenR> internal walls I mean
<hamitron> StevenR: probably 5 brick widths at a guess
<hamitron> they are solid
<StevenR> yeah, that'd be a problem for wireless signals
<funkyHat> ball: cat5e should do gigabit as long as there isn't too much interference... or is your ethernet older than that?
<ali1234> coax lol
<hamitron> StevenR: it was 3 terrace houses before
 * funkyHat just needs to replace his switches to get gigabit
<hamitron> funkyHat: same :)
<funkyHat> â¢)
 * hamitron doesn't have fancy chars
<hamitron> you 4 eyed monster you
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> so 1 AP for each section of the old house, 1 for the extension, and 1 for the garage
<hamitron> 5 AP
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> wires are better anyway
<hamitron> got the wires now, so no point in spending money on stuff that is slower
 * StevenR nods
<funkyHat> I like being able to sit wherever with a laptop, and using the wifi for my phone which is significantly faster than 3G internet
<funkyHat> But otherwise of course wires are better â¡)
<hamitron> my internet is 360kbit this second
<hamitron> :/
 * hamitron cries
<funkyHat> Oh, so actually my 3G would be quicker ;D
<hamitron> indeed, but I rarely get a 2G signal
<hamitron> so dunno about 3G
<hamitron> 2G is fine in the garden
<hamitron> but it is always raining when I need to make a call
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> I like my DSL, I can stream cd quality radio and stuff
<hamitron> ;)
<Pernig> no 3G around here
<hamitron> the map says I am on the border of 3G
<hamitron> so dunno
<hamitron> if I actually put some effort in, bought an antenna, maybe be ok
<hamitron> but I swear I'm turning into a technophobe
<hamitron> ;/
<ball> I'm not a technophobe, but there's a lot of it I could quite happily live without
<ball> ...it would be nice so simplify and save a bit of money in the process.
<hamitron> I guess that is a little like me
<gord> i just want less things beeping at me, i don't know why we turned in to a civilisation that does what the electronic device beeping at us tells us to, but i for one, will not stand for it
<hamitron> gord: exactly
<hamitron> :)
 * penguin42 fails to remember the quote from McCoy about that
<hamitron> I'm quit IRC too, if I didn't like it here so much <3 ;)
<hamitron> I'd*
<hamitron> given up loads of messaging protocols
<hamitron> never gonna use facebook
 * funkyHat beeps at gord 
<hamitron> also closing as many accounts as I can
<ball> Facebook is awful.  I have to force myself to check it once a week.
<ball> It's the only form of communication I have with most of my nieces and nephews ;-)
<hamitron> I've found not using it, I have lost touch with a lot of lazy people
<hamitron> I've always made the time to write xmas cards, etc. but they can't even update me with their address
<hamitron> funny thing, they never thought the need as I "never change phone number"
<hamitron> :D
<hamitron> now the fools have no number
<hamitron> they seem to change phone numbers without letting people know too
<hamitron> unless I'm just missing announcements on facebook or something
<jacobw> facebook == the internet :P
<hamitron> jacobw: I shall withdraw from "the internet"
<hamitron> :D
<hamitron> actually, it bugs me how some adverts says to go to a facebook page
<hamitron> to look at products
<hamitron> there was even some news program I saw on the bbc that said to
<hamitron> I'd expect the bbc to be capable of hosting their own pages? :/
<gord> they can, but if its on facebook everything you click gets posted to someone elses facebook
<hamitron> but how will it work with google+?
<gord> getting you to go to a facebook page is not about getting you to go there, its about getting all your friends to go there
<hamitron> surely the bbc can't favour 1 type
<hamitron> :)
<Pernig> lol
<Pernig> doesn't stop them trying
<Pernig> they all bang on about twitter
<hamitron> it will get to the stage where each 30 min program on tv spends 5 mins relaying all the online account info to visit
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> not that is bothers me, since they turned my tv off
<hamitron> it*
<Pernig> personally i'd rather read about things on the internet than watch tv haha
<gord> i tried to play a video game the other month, it tried to get me to log in via facebook to play it :( nope.
<hamitron> gord: same
<hamitron> I just bought the King Arthur Collection also
<hamitron> it has facebook inside the game on the title page
<gord> a collection of king arthurs?
<hamitron> :D
<hamitron> http://www.amazon.co.uk/King-Arthur-Collections-PC-DVD/dp/B004X5JIAQ
<popey> one star
<hamitron> popey: bit harsh imo
<hamitron> also only 1 review
<popey> ya
<hamitron> I'd give it 3 or 4 stars
<hamitron> it has crashed on me once
<hamitron> and I haven't played it that much
<hamitron> it also uses steam
<hamitron> :/
<Pernig> steam i don't mind
<Pernig> it makes it easier
<hamitron> but the storyline is nice
<hamitron> and the music gives the game a good feel
<hamitron> Pernig: just worries me having online type DRM
<Pernig> ah
<hamitron> and Steam are willing to cut users off, like I was
<hamitron> :/
<Pernig> how so?
<hamitron> so i got burnt once by steam, and know what can happen
<hamitron> they dropped support for my OS in the steam client
<hamitron> so i was locked out of my games collection
<Pernig> what OS were you using? I am still on XP for games
<hamitron> I was using Windows 98 at the time
<hamitron> most people claim it is my own fault for using it, but the fact is, I had to buy a newer version of windows, because of steam
<hamitron> :/
 * funkyHat is surprised how difficult it is to find a cheap-ish low profile 1gbps PCI-E ethernet card
<hamitron> Pernig: there wasn't so many games on steam when it happened, but I worry what will happen when MS drop XP support in the SDK steam uses.... causing XP support to be dropped
<hamitron> Pernig: some games don't work well on versions newer than XP, and I like to play my old games :)
<hamitron> Pernig: it is just that control over me, I don't like
<Pernig> i see what you mean
<Pernig> i could do with upgrading at some point
<Pernig> but i don't really want to pay
<Pernig> because i don't use it
<Pernig> only for games, and tbh the only games i have played recently have been on linux
<hamitron> well, according to the stats
<hamitron> only 2% of steam users used win98 at the time
<Pernig> i reckon a lot more than 2% of current steam users use XP
<hamitron> but it shows they are willing to cut off a minority of users, even when them users have paid out for stuff
<hamitron> Pernig: yep
<hamitron> but think in 5 years time
<hamitron> maybe less
<Pernig> and we are in a situation where a lot more games have been released retrospectively on steam
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> I am hoping they don't do the same to XP, as win98
<Pernig> games that i struggle to get working on XP
<Pernig> i hope so too
<hamitron> I voiced my concerns at the time
<hamitron> and most people laughed it off
<hamitron> tbh, you are one of the few who has actually seen my point
<hamitron> :)
<Pernig> i like my old games as well :P
<hamitron> if the majority of users are happy with the continious upgrade cycle, there is a good chance they could do the same
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> I've gone 98->2000->7
<hamitron> so teh XP won't affect me tbh
<Pernig> another thing that would bug me is i use a wii classic controller, and that can't be made to work on 64 bit windows afaik
<hamitron> tbh, I have more time for MS than Steam
<Pernig> i have no time for MS
<hamitron> MS drop support, but let you continue to use the software you buy
<Pernig> but that is mainly due to technical reasons
<ali1234> MS are kidding themselves if they think majority of people are going to stop using XP any time in the next 5 years
<hamitron> Steam stop you using what you buy on their say so
<hamitron> Pernig: technical stuff wise, I agree, I hate MS for that
<hamitron> but my windows 95 disk still installs
<hamitron> :)
<ali1234> i still use XP SP0
<Pernig> ie my softraid won't work on win7
<Pernig> but windows is the only reason i need fake raid
<Pernig> linux picks up fakeraid even if you plug your drives into a different motherboard
<Pernig> and of course software raid is built in
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> technically MS are just useless tbh
<hamitron> haha
<hamitron> so many problems
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> but the day they start telling me they are cutting off my copy of windows and stopping it booting, is the day I refuse to work with their stuff
<hamitron> with steam, I buy everything on CD or DVD
<hamitron> so hopefully one day if it is needed, it can be cracked
<ali1234> how they going to stop windows xp from booting?
<hamitron> ali1234: I don't think they are
<ali1234> even if they wanted to they couldn't
<hamitron> ali1234: I was saying if they start acting like steam, I'd refuse to use it
<ali1234> SP0 does not require an internet connection even
<ali1234> they could probably do it with 7, but if you use that you're a fool
<hamitron> ty :/
<hamitron> I got win7 for Â£45
<ali1234> lol
<ali1234> you say you wouldn't use it if they tried
<hamitron> retail boxed
<Pernig> i wouldn't even pay that much :P
<ali1234> i won't even use it if there is the possibility, even if they say they won't
<ali1234> which is why i am still on SP0
<hamitron> ali1234: I wouldn't use any of their stuff ever again if they do ;)
<hamitron> but EA and Steam are far more restrictive than MS with disabling of products
<hamitron> although, I must say i don't like any of them really
<ali1234> yes
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> that's why i'll never bu anything from either
<ali1234> i'll play their free games but that is it
<Pernig> i love the humble indie bundles
<Pernig> bought all of those so far
<hamitron> I'm trying to strike a ballance atm
 * funkyHat has all 4 humble bundles â¢)
<hamitron> like any game that is download only on steam in the UK, I am getting imported
<ali1234> i'll also never buy a PS3 or a wii or a xbox 360
<ali1234> i don't like PC games anyway
 * Pernig has a wii but it's more an ornament than anything
<hamitron> ali1234: I wish I didn't like games :)
<ali1234> the last good game that came out on console was wind waker lol
<Pernig> http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/227496_10150260788361729_773591728_8696199_884270_n.jpg
<hamitron> distributors just screw you many times over :/
<ali1234> and PC has had probably 2 good games in the past 10 years
<ali1234> and both of them involve mining
<hamitron> mining?
<Pernig> minecraft!
<hamitron> eve?
<Pernig> <3
<Pernig> and eve i had to stop playing when i start to plan my life around it
<hamitron> indeed
<hamitron> haha
<ali1234> and dorf fortress, yeah
<ali1234> eve isn't so much a game as a complicated time wasting system
<hamitron> I like my racing sims :)
<hamitron> I'll give any type of game a go, but racing is what hits the spot for me
<suprengr> hamiltron speed dating? ;)
<hamitron> haha
<gord> i am bad at racing games...
<gord> they require me to use the break, screw that. the barrier on the corner is my break
<hamitron> hehe
<hamitron> I just don't like to be using a keyboard all the time
<hamitron> can lay back in chair, relax in an intense online race
<Pernig> hamitron: do you use a wheel for racing?
<hamitron> yeh
 * suprengr suggests using 4 wheels - better than any unicycle
<hamitron> hehe
<hamitron> if it wasn't for the cost and distance to places to race
<hamitron> I'd try it irl
<hamitron> so a sim is as close as I realistically can get to it
<hamitron> and it is exciting and competitive online to a degree
<Pernig> i used to love live for speed
<hamitron> well, can be
<hamitron> yeh, that is good
<Pernig> you can really chuck those formula bmws about
<hamitron> I only have the demo
<hamitron> :/
<Pernig> it's worth the money
 * jacobw also likes racing games
<hamitron> yeh, I just like physical media
<hamitron> so i can say i got something for my money
<hamitron> ;)
<jacobw> ha
<jacobw> you've got some future landfill for your money :P
<hamitron> I'm a serious collector here
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> over 300 PC games all in "as new" condition
<hamitron> just love looking through them
<hamitron> and deciding what to play
<Pernig> i am too careless with my stuff
<Pernig> better now but as a child i used to wreck games
<Pernig> i'm kicking myself now
<hamitron> certain "series" I would have always bought
<Pernig> i had the original grand prix 2 box complete with 200 odd page manual (all in english)
<hamitron> like C&C
<hamitron> but now the DRM has stopped me
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> Pernig: I have that
<hamitron> :)
<gord> don't worry, the new C&C games are terrible anyway
<Pernig> i also loved C&C until they killed it
<Pernig> EA that is
<hamitron> 1,2,3,3 2k addon, 4
<hamitron> gp series that is
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> gord: but it still breaks my collection
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> I don't even play all the games I buy
<gord> no, having 4 IN your collection, validifying it as part of the series, would break your collection
<Pernig> haha
<hamitron> :/
 * hamitron takes #4 out
<gord> seriously, they removed resource gathering and base building. how is that a C&C game?
<hamitron> oh, C&C
<hamitron> thought you meant GP4
<hamitron> :)
<gord> as i mentioned before, racing games are not my forte ;)
<hamitron> the last C&C game I got as #3
<hamitron> I not got red alert 3 because of DRM
<hamitron> and C&C 4 there is no need to get, because I don't have them all, so won't bother
<hamitron> so really, DRM is just making me consider not buying any PC games now
<hamitron> and maybe work on coding some game
<hamitron> that new Rugby game coming out this month on steam is download only
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> F1 2011 is download only in the UK
<jacobw> sports games suck
<hamitron> so will import F1 2011
<hamitron> jacobw: I agree mostly, but sometimes nice for a change
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> I refuse to buy just racing games
<hamitron> like to have a nice choice
<hamitron> personally, I consider FPS over rated
<jacobw> what do think of operation flashpoint?
<Pernig> original one
<Pernig> flawed but amazing all the same
<jacobw> hmm, i'm enjoying FPS games less and less since Call Of Duty became popular :|
<Pernig> i actually liked 2
<jacobw> dragon rising
<Pernig> better than arma2 thanks to the ego engine i think
 * hamitron liked original UT
<hamitron> ;)
<jacobw> Counter Strike: Source was the peak of FPS games in my opinion
<Pernig> ego has impressive physics, not a lot comes close
<hamitron> but somehow, shooting with mouse is just not right :/
<hamitron> I like cs:s too
<hamitron> :)
<jacobw> I hate perks and all that nonsense
<ging> shooting with a mouse not right?
<ging> would you prefer a wii controller?
<gord> ... i don't know how i came to be watching black lace - agadoo on youtube... but well. here i am
<hamitron> ging: I just don't compare it to shooting irl
<jacobw> first step is acceptance :P
<Pernig> my step dad has one of those gun grip controllers
<Pernig> cost him an arm and a leg
<ging> hamitron: yeah but getting shot and respawning is a lot better than in real life
<hamitron> I just go shooting in the garden tbh
<hamitron> not battle style ofc
<hamitron> ;/
<Pernig> just the neighbours' cats
<hamitron> hehe
<hamitron> rabbits mostly
<gord> fyi, i own this ;) https://picasaweb.google.com/112811220238447511854/Dropbox02#5577966221612916530
<gord> and yes, those are 3d glasses...
<Pernig> nicee
<hamitron> wtf is that?
<hamitron> :D
<gord> its a gun controller for the playstation move thing, its fun, but i keep it out of sight of anyone that comes to my house :)
<hamitron> when I was a kid, always wanted a kit of lasor guns
<hamitron> but most people are too lazy to actually move off a sofa
<hamitron> :/
<Pernig> novint falcon is the thing that my step dad has
<Pernig> it's a strange looking thing
<Pernig> i just have a cheap wii gun grip
<hamitron> I got a "gun" for the NES and Duck Hunt ;)
<Pernig> nice!
<hamitron> them PS1 guns for Time Crisis I thought were good
<hamitron> never managed to afford them at the time
<hamitron> oh, Point Blank too
<hamitron> :)
<jacobw> TC was great
<gord> oh right yes they have a time crisis machine at the arcade in the hotel for uds in october, i should brush up on my "mad skillz"
<konqui> if anyone wants to join dropbox, please use my referal link http://db.tt/tKBi2bY
<suprengr> Wow - MI6 & CIA connected old Libya nasties - I was [nearly] so surprised that I forgot I had guessed this much a long time ago!
<penguin42> ?
<suprengr> it's calle d politics... it's called freedom
<suprengr> .. it;'s called other hated names by those not liking truths
<suprengr> ok - let's try philosophy - if 'all my life's a circle'is true...  what are speed bumps for? [hums - all my life's got acne]
<MartijnVdS> Doctor time!
<suprengr> which channel
<MartijnVdS> BBC 1
<suprengr> MartijnVdS, cheers
<matti> Oh.
<matti> Who time.
<matti> MartijnVdS: Thanks!
<jacobw> they need geolocation :p
<MartijnVdS> Lots of sleepless kids after this episode :)
<suprengr> they need someome shouting - "it's behind you"
<shauno> No spoilers :( im stuck in town :(
<MartijnVdS> shauno: Written by Mark Gatiss.. and it's looking good. Won't say more :)
<suprengr> shauno, I erfuse you're request... all the world's beautiful women strip off,  the monsters  are actually naked as well ;)
<suprengr> ...^ as for the Dr.!!!
<suprengr> *refuse
<suprengr> oh btw - Amy is actually a man
<MartijnVdS> and Rory a woman
<suprengr> ;D
<ali1234> how do i resize the root partitiont then?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: if it's ext3/4 you can grow it while it's mounted
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: after growing the partition it's in
<ali1234> i want to shrink it
<MartijnVdS> otherwise, reboot with a CD containing parted
<MartijnVdS> gparted
<ali1234> next question, why is my mythbuntu saying "Access denied for user 'mythtv'@'localhost' (using password: YES)"
<MartijnVdS> because the password for the "mythtv" user on localhost (in mysql) was wrong?
<ali1234> it wasn't wrong yesterday, why would it be wrong today?
<jacobw> !
<suprengr> ali1234, did it assume you would change it perhaps?
<ali1234> did what assume i would change what?
<suprengr> myth
<ali1234> did mythtv assume i would change the password?
<MartijnVdS> or mysql
<suprengr> dunno - just a thought
<ali1234> why would they do that?
<ali1234> maybe the DB is corrupted and i need to run the repair script
<ali1234> i think this happened before
<suprengr> Dr. Who sounds like me listening to a parliamentary debate "please save me from from the monsters"
<suprengr> whoops - politics again
<suprengr> tic toc - tic toc
<jacobw> the next episode looks good :)
<suprengr> yeah!
 * jacobw sups earl grey
<suprengr> jacobw, is a time traveller  - has seen next eposide
<suprengr> tic toc - tic toc
<jacobw> dang, i thought i had you all fooled :(
<suprengr> & remember what happened to the boy eho cried [grey] wolf!
<suprengr> *who
<jacobw> :P
<MartijnVdS> suprengr: not "bad wolf"? :)
<jacobw> http://forgetomori.com/2010/fortean/time-traveler-caught-in-museum-photo/
<jacobw> time travel hoaxes are actually quite interesting
<suprengr> - i was being 'obtuse' - being not of this worls myself
<suprengr> - i was being 'obtuse' - being not of this world mysel
<suprengr> ;D
<ali1234> that's not a time traveller, that's johnny knoxville
<suprengr> nah!
<diplo> evening all
<suprengr> ali1234, I'm from another planet - you're from this planet - now which one of us is gonna win ?
<suprengr> ;0
<ali1234> oh i see, the mythbackend ip address changed for no reason
<Pernig> hi diplo
<ali1234> why speedtouch routers have to have a useless dhcp server?
<gord> i used a speedtouch <thing> once, i never ever went near one again
<ali1234> i need to pull out the old netgear i used to use before demon broke my connection
<Pernig> demon are still going?!
<hamitron> ali1234: demon fixed my connection this week btw
<ali1234> Pernig: not really no
<hamitron> 4 months of problems, and it all works now
<hamitron> :)
<ali1234> they have no UK employees except in sales afaik
<Pernig> i think that's most ISPs in the UK haha
<hamitron> their internet is still pretty good tbh
<hamitron> I get a lot lower pings than most my friends
 * Pernig 's ping is scuppered by being 25m+ away from the router :(
<hamitron> I get about 28ms on pingtest
<hamitron> :)
<Pernig> 38 to google's dns server
<Pernig> i can live with that
<hamitron> yeh, that is fine
<gord> pingtest isn't reeeeeally a good test is it?
<gord> more really a measure of who is closest to their server
<Pernig> i guess
<Pernig> but it helps if you have a low ping for the services you use most
<hamitron> well, I get lower pings than my friends ;/
<gord> are your friends further away? ;)
<hamitron> to everything in general i mean
<Pernig> i remember when i was on blueyonder, playing counter strike etc was a dream on their own servers
<hamitron> like my ping to american servers is 30ms faster
<hamitron> my main complaint about demon is the monkey's on the front line of the support desk, and the slightly over priced packages
<Pernig> 24 month contract
<Pernig> :\
<Pernig> and i'm guessing i would still have to pay line rental to BT
<hamitron> I've been with them for 14 years
<hamitron> :)
<Pernig> i was with them in the 90s
<Pernig> around 95-98
<hamitron> you can either have a phone line with BT, or with Cable & Wireless
<hamitron> C&W is a better internet package for less money
<Pernig> i can't have cable where i am
<hamitron> not cable
<hamitron> just C&W telephone line
<Pernig> and does this run through the physical BT telephone line?
<hamitron> if C&W are in your exchange, they can use the BT line I believe
<hamitron> but I am with BT
<hamitron> :/
<Pernig> i doubt they are
<Pernig> we have no kind of LLU here
<Pernig> it's BT or nothing
<hamitron> we have talk talk
<hamitron> :/
<Pernig> obviously you can have other providers apart from BT, but it's just BT wholesale
<hamitron> aye
<hamitron> I refuse to use talktalk
<hamitron> so kinda the same for me
<hamitron> I believe sky are maybe moving into my area
<hamitron> but their prices are only really good if get sky tv too imo
 * Pernig agrees
<hamitron> plus we have a business line
<hamitron> and I'm not sure how it works
<hamitron> unless something really good appears, sticking with BT for now
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron_> I broke it
<hamitron_> ;)
 * hamitron_ notes to not play with a vpn and its settings while talking about how pleased he is with his ISP
<hamitron> anyone know a good service for downloading stuff and burning files to dvd, for them to mail it to you?
<hamitron> cheap ofc
<penguin42> amazon do that don't they on their cloud?
<hamitron> dunno
<slvr> if it's linuix discs you're worried about then they're plenty
<hamitron> about half is probably linux stuff
<ball> > half
<slvr> (linux distros usually have mail-order discs if that's what you're looking for, though I suppose I'm not exactly answering the question)
<hamitron> it would be better than nothing for sure
<hamitron> but a VPS with a dvd writer would be nice
<popey> how much are you wanting to pay?
<hamitron> as little as possible
<popey> and how many DVDs worth?
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> depends on cost tbh
<hamitron> I can't even find anywhere that offers this
<hamitron> my google skills suck
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> no more than 40Gb
<popey> I'd do it for you, I have a chunky net connection and multiple burners, but I expect you will want to pay less than cost price of the DVD
<Pernig> it seems an odd request
<hamitron> popey: I was looking for some automated sorta thing
<hamitron> maybe I'm just looking for something that doesn't exist
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: is a machine hamitron
<Pernig> it would be interesting if there were such a software
<hamitron> haha
<Pernig> personally i'd bang it on an external hard drive, with them being so cheap
<ball> I need to buy another of those.
<popey> evening TheOpenSourcerer
<hamitron> I'm thinking, for downloads, so the ISP download limit is not restricting
<hamitron> and it would also mean no slow internet from downloading
<popey> hamitron: in low volume its likely to be quite expensive
<popey> most of the cd duplication services work on high volumes
<popey> googling for cd duplication service will probably turn up some options
<hamitron> so it is
<hamitron> :)
<popey> http://www.a1duplication.co.uk/mastering_and_remastering.php for example
<TheOpenSourcerer> wotcha popey - back from the West Country?
<popey> yeah
<MartijnVdS> wb popey
<popey> ta
<MartijnVdS> I wonder what my upstairs neighbor is doing
<MartijnVdS> it sounds like a helicopter is landing up there...
<Pernig> MartijnVdS: playing dance dance revolution?
<MartijnVdS> Pernig: some war game more likely
<TheOpenSourcerer> our neighbours parents must be away - kids (late teens) are having *another* party.
<MartijnVdS> Pernig: did some "Modern Warfare" download pack come out?
<Pernig> um
<Pernig> quite possibly! haha
<hamitron> I think if I just buy linux dvd, the rest can be downloaded without much worry
<hamitron> think more of it is linux junk, than I thought
<hamitron> :)
<Pernig> rolling releases ftw
<Pernig> xP
<Pernig> probably not the channel to proclaiming things like that!
<popey> "meh"
<jacobw> rolling releases lack QA
<hamitron> can't help but feel it is a bit pricey http://store.slackware.com/cgi-bin/store/slackdvdpack?id=zCLh35Ht&mv_pc=127
<hamitron> :/
<Pernig> ouch
<hamitron> I'd love to have it
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> just.... I dunno
<jacobw> 'Slackware, the best 1994 has to offer' :P
<hamitron> :/
<Pernig> it does look a nice book
<hamitron> haha jacobw
<hamitron> at least it works
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> but there again, it works well on my 90s hardware
<hamitron> ;D
<jacobw> :)
<hamitron> ubuntu won me over, then decided it didn't want me
<hamitron> so suffering with the rejection
<hamitron> go back to where I came from
<Pernig> tried arch?
<hamitron> arch binary packages are i686
<Pernig> they have 64 bit too
<hamitron> I'm on i586
<hamitron> well, most my stuff is
<Pernig> that's a bummer
<Laney> how is arch the logical rolling release to choose for former ubuntu users?
<Laney> debian :-)
<hamitron> debian does work
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> I thought centos did too, with i386 in the iso names
<Pernig> Laney: it's not as involved as slackware
<hamitron> 7 cd iso downloads later, and find it won't
 * jacobw is also a fan of Debian
<hamitron> I enjoyed my years on slackware, just not sure I can be bothered now
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> and slackware is kinda modern for my tastes
<jacobw> Ahem, modern?
<hamitron> 2.6.37 kernel....
<hamitron> in fact, most the stuff is current at release
<jacobw> That's still on the old 2.6.x line :P
<Pernig> sounds a bit old to me!
<hamitron> hehe
<jacobw> All the cool kids are running Linux 3 now
<hamitron> a few of my comps still run 2.4
<hamitron> :/
<Azelphur> anyone here got a galaxy s2?
<Azelphur> can you usb mount the internal storage? or do you have to get an SD card to put music and stuff on it
<Pernig> Azelphur: i think you would be better using external storage
<Azelphur> *shrug* it has like 12GB of internal
<Pernig> i'm not sure then
<Pernig> but
<Pernig> let me ask someone who has one
<Pernig> i was under the impression internal memory was for installing apps etc
<Azelphur> yea that's what I'm thinking
<jacobw> The Nexus S has 16GB of internal
 * Pernig has a phone with only 2GB internal :(
<hamitron> 3.6Mb
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> and no phone number
<hamitron> \o/
<Pernig> haha!
<nperry> Azelphur: I have the s2
<nperry> Azelphur: When you mount, it should mount as two drives..
<Azelphur> I see
<nperry> Azelphur: Internal and External
<Azelphur> I see
<nperry> However on the android the internal is classed as the 'sdcard' under astro
<Azelphur> so should be able to put music on it as stock?
<nperry> and the external is called 'emc'
<Azelphur> fun
<nperry> Yes, infact that is where all my music/pictures are on mine.
<Pernig> sweet
<nperry> SD Card is there for overflow
<jacobw> is jacob[at]slothmagic[dot]co[dot]uk a professional email address?
<webpigeon> slothmagic?
<jacobw> yes
<webpigeon> could be worse
<Pernig> if it's your company, then go for it
<Azelphur> nperry: cool ty :)
<jacobw> its not, its just because i like sloths
<Pernig> fair enough!
<Azelphur> azelphur[at]azelphur.com best email address evar
<Azelphur> true story :p
<Pernig> just boring googlemail here
<hamitron> jacobw: I think you'd be better buying my domain off me for an extremely high price
<webpigeon> Azelphur, I'm sure i can find some spam sites that would agree ;)
<jacobw> hamitron: i'm sure we can come to an arrangement :P
<Azelphur> webpigeon: shoo, also gmail anti spam will save me :D
<jacobw> have you got awesome.co.uk?
<hamitron> no :/
<jacobw> ;)
<Pernig> i have a domain but don't use the email for it
<hamitron> I have all mail from it forwarded, but never used it
<Pernig> there is a chance colleagues/friends/family etc might stumble upon my blog and see things written about them
<jacobw> hmm, that's a worry
<jacobw> i'm writing a CV and i don't want to come across as strange
<hamitron> no chance then ;)
<Pernig> you can always forward your mail to your slothmagic account
<hamitron> the brain warps when spending time in here
<Pernig> mine is forwarded to google mainly for the push mail, battery saving on phone etc
<hamitron> atm I can't decide if to put all my trust into google, or host my own stuff
<hamitron> :/
<jacobw> i've been stuck on that decision for months hamitron
<hamitron> same
<jacobw> i'm paranoid of the cloud
<hamitron> I've turned paranoid of the web
<Pernig> i kind of sold my soul to them when i bought the best phone ever and though what the hell
<hamitron> haha
<Pernig> *best phone i've ever had rather
<hamitron> I just feel like deleting as much as I can, and not appearing anywhere
<jacobw> i don't use facebook or gmail out of paranoia
<hamitron> I'd miss google docs
<hamitron> :/
<jacobw> never let pictures of myself online etc
<hamitron> same
<jacobw> though i keep appearing in photos taken at events
<jacobw> usually because i'm the only one wearing bright yellow or something
<Pernig> just as likely to appear in the paper or something
<hamitron> I don't really go out much since the smoking ban tbh
<hamitron> only work related
<jacobw> smoking is the leading cause of smug non-smokers :P
<hamitron> I don't even smoke
<hamitron> ;/
<jacobw> neither do i, but i don't care that people do.
<hamitron> me neither
<hamitron> but i do care if I have to freeze my bits off, standing outside while others smoke
<hamitron> :D
<jacobw> ah i see
<hamitron> but I know with most I know, the smoking ban means they just stay at home with a few mates, and abuse drugs instead
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> so it probably hasn't helped their health a great deal
<hamitron> and I know the lack of partying has certainly made life very boring
<hamitron> I'm tempted to start smoking a pipe on my motorbike
<hamitron> :D
<hamitron> just to make a point
<Pernig> about the most daredevil i thing i do on the bike is put one hand on the tank :P
<hamitron> I ride without a helmet sometimes
<hamitron> but not one for loads of stunts or stupid riding
<Pernig> i  think i would still wear a lid if i didn't have to
<hamitron> same
<Pernig> mainly for the comfort of having something stopping the wind hitting your face
<hamitron> too cold most of the time
<hamitron> ;/
<jacobw> it'd be crazy not to
<Pernig> they also keep your head dry
<hamitron> oh, I have open face helmet
<hamitron> :)
<Pernig> flip front here
<hamitron> I like the wind in my face, with flying goggles
<hamitron> it makes it feel faster
<Pernig> the novelty wore off for me
<hamitron> so i don't speed as much
 * hamitron a good boy
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> I think I still have a great big grin most times I set off on my bike
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> all stress just leaves my body
<hamitron> brb, coffee
<hamitron> oh yes
<hamitron> and raspberries and cream
<hamitron> :D
<jacobw> party at hamitron's house!
<jacobw> i've eaten so much stir fry i think i'm going to explode :s
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> it would be "bring your own cream"
<jacobw> i can't believe i've never written a CV before :|
<hamitron> I only got 1 pot
<hamitron> me neither actually
<hamitron> :D
<xr112> hi, n e one kno how to get a bitcoin miner working on ubuntu 11.04?
<hamitron> the few jobs I've gone for, had detailed application forms
<Azelphur> !english | xr112
<lubotu3> xr112: The #ubuntu, #kubuntu and #xubuntu channels are English only. For a complete list of channels in other languages, please visit https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/ChannelList
<hamitron> xr112: Azelphur does
<hamitron> ;)
<Azelphur> aww, what happened to the factoid that rants about n e 1 u r language.
<jacobw> xr112: #bitcoin
<hamitron> !english | Azelphur
<lubotu3> Azelphur: The #ubuntu, #kubuntu and #xubuntu channels are English only. For a complete list of channels in other languages, please visit https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/ChannelList
<hamitron> :D
<Azelphur> hamitron: shoo :P
<hamitron> what is "n e 1 u r"?
<hamitron> :/
<xr112> Azelphur: Sorry Sir, wnt hppen gain k?
<xr112> ;)
<jacobw> hehe
<webpigeon> o.O
 * Azelphur cries
<jacobw> there there
<webpigeon> Azelphur, r u k? :P *hides*
<hamitron> xr112: iirc, you need to install the AMD/ATI SDK if using some Radeon card
<hamitron> then just install the miner
<xr112> im using Nvidia card
<hamitron> then imo, it is silly bitcoin mining
<hamitron> :D
<Azelphur> ^
<Azelphur> nvidia + bitcoin = you are now spending more on electricity than you are earning
<xr112> yh I guess but I only found out about it today, jst wanted to see what it was all about
<hamitron> well, it would be cheaper to buy some bitcoins
<hamitron> :/
<xr112> Yh, they seem to be going up in value
<hamitron> not recently
<webpigeon> one day, it will become too expenstive to calcuate the hashes, on this date botnet owers are the only people who will be doing it
<jacobw> they're decreasing in value
<jacobw> its a deflationary currency
<hamitron> but I know my Geforce GTS450 makes about 0.02 coins per day
<hamitron> jacobw: technically they should increase over time
<jacobw> 50 days/bitcoin
<webpigeon> hamitron, i'm assuming that's on average
<hamitron> but the current price is overly inflated :/
<hamitron> webpigeon: the botnet arguement is not something I have considered
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> interesting idea tbh
<xr112> but surely the harder they become to calcuate, the more valuable there become?
<webpigeon> xr112, not really, when it costs more to get them then they are worth there is no incentive
<hamitron> xr112: maybe, if they are worth less than they cost to make, a lot of people stop mining and the difficulty can decrease also
<xr112> yh I guess so
<hamitron> there are ofc different ways to look at it
<webpigeon> hamitron, are you sure? I thought the difficaulty only increased
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> webpigeon: no, it can go down too
<hamitron> in fact, last time it did
<hamitron> I'm guessing, because a lot of nvidia users stopped mining
<webpigeon> that makes 4 possible attack vectors then :P
<jacobw> xr112: http://old.linuxoutlaws.com/podcast/215
<hamitron> webpigeon: have you seen namecoin recently?
<webpigeon> I haven'y
<webpigeon> haven't
<jacobw> linux outlaws' bitcoin discussion
<hamitron> loads of people jumped on it at the start, making a large difficulty
<hamitron> and then stopped mining
<xr112> jacobw: thanks
<jacobw> quantum computing will blow bitcoin mining out of the water :P
<hamitron> so it now takes about 10 hours to move the namecoins, rather than 1
<hamitron> :/
<webpigeon> jacobw, where i heard that they didn't decrease in difficaulty but fabsh is known to be wrong on occation :P
<hamitron> bitcoin actually collapsed before the latest hype, if you look at the graph
<popey> webpigeon: it can decrease
<webpigeon> popey, thanks :)
<popey> also
<popey> fab is often wrong
<hamitron> meh, people only believe popey :/
<webpigeon> popey, i didn't say it... :P
<popey> but I have unsubscribed from all his social media channels because his wrongness gets on my tits
<hamitron> :D
<webpigeon> oh dear :P
<jacobw> he's often wrong
<jacobw> oh
<hamitron> I think bitcoin will collapse, or gradually decrease for a while
<jacobw> popey beat me to it
<hamitron> :/
<webpigeon> jacobw, popeyV2.0
<jacobw> i'll never have sideburns :P
<hamitron> as things are, the price is about double of the electricity cost in the UK, if using good cards for it
<popey> haha
<popey> SIDEBURNS OF POWERRRRRR!
<hamitron> :)
<jacobw> :)
<czajkowski> hmm new empathy logo looks odd
<hamitron> I've just lost a full beard
<hamitron> \o/
<hamitron> so i iz weak
<webpigeon> hamitron, use popey's sideburns for power apprently...
<hamitron> :/
<czajkowski> new software centre logo looks.........well not what I'd expect for an app store
<jacobw> where did you last have it? :P
<popey> czajkowski: pic?
<jacobw> i haven't tried oneiric yet
 * popey boots oneiric
<xr112> hamitron: I wont bother with it then lol
<czajkowski> 1 tic
<jacobw> i don't think its difficult to spell either
<hamitron> jacobw: I believe it was in the bathroom.... it must have run off with the fright of soap
<hamitron> xr112: it is certainly interesting to look at
<czajkowski> if things would stop hanging and crashing
<jacobw> hehe
<popey> :D
<czajkowski> had a lot of regression errors
<hamitron> xr112: very interesting in fact.... a lot to look into.
<czajkowski> plus other stuff just won't_work
<jacobw> xr112: the economics are fascinating
<xr112> hamitron: you can jst donation me some coins ;)
<jacobw> (i know 'fascinating' a geeky word)
<Azelphur> I still have 100BTC :P
<hamitron> I cash mine in every few days
<Azelphur> waiting for prices to go up :D
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> Azelphur: could send me 10 btc to "practise" with xr?
<hamitron> ;)
<Azelphur> lol
<xr112> lol
<Azelphur> been farming solo for ages now still havn't found anything though :(
<hamitron> if I had more cards, I would
<hamitron> :/
<czajkowski> popey: http://twitpic.com/6flgvc
<popey> ta
<popey> i love them both
<hamitron> hmmmm
<hamitron> is it just my dirty mind ehre? ;/
<czajkowski> annoying I can see I have gwibber messages
<czajkowski> but it won't flippping launch
<jacobw> i like the emapthy icon but i don't like software centre icon
<hamitron> imo it doesn't look good having 2 orange icons near each other, and 2 blue
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> but I dunno what the colours mean :)
<webpigeon> they have meanings?
<hamitron> I dunno
 * hamitron is on 10.04
<hamitron> with lxde
<webpigeon> I'm ok 15 with shell so i can't really comment :P
<hamitron> ok 15?
<webpigeon> Fedora
<hamitron> how does "ok" mean Fedora?
<hamitron> :/
<ali12341> there's a very simple fix for those icon problems
<hamitron> ali12341: remove unity?
<ali12341> remove software centre, ubuntu one, and empathy, because they are all garbage
<hamitron> ;/
<brobostigon> ok, is ubuntu, amazing is debian unstable.
<brobostigon> eek,. sporry.
<brobostigon> :(
<webpigeon> hamitron, i'm on fedora, hence the 15
<brobostigon> woops.
<webpigeon> heyoo brobostigon
<brobostigon> helo webpigeon
<hamitron> tbh, I liked fedora when i tried it
<hamitron> felt snappy
<webpigeon> I like the OS, i perfer the ubuntu people
<ali12341> also, why do people use empathy and then use some terminal app for irc?
<Pernig> i had to do too many workarounds with fedora
<webpigeon> ali12341, because empathy is pretty bad for irc?
<Pernig> ali12341: empathy isn't very feature rich, especially for irc
<jacobw> screen?
<ali12341> considering that IRC and IM are exactly the same thing, that means empathy is pretty bad at it's main feature
<brobostigon> ali12341: atm, irssi + bitlbee, is mostly perfect.
<Pernig> i actually got on with empathy very well
<Pernig> keeping it simple worked well for me
<ali12341> brobostigon: exactly. if you like using the terminal so much, why don't you use bitlbee for everything?
<ali12341> otoh, if you like empathy except for the irc client, why don't you just use pidgin?
<ali12341> empathy basically pleases no one
<ali12341> well, perhaps people who do not use irc
<brobostigon> ali12341: it cant do everything, issue 1. really,, unless you use a plugin for pidgin's backend.
<Pernig> if it had more features i think it would be about bang on
<hamitron> I like pidgin
<hamitron> :)
<ali12341> if empathy had more features you means?
<webpigeon> ali12341, I like empathy, i just don't think that you can use the same kind of design for group chat that you do with 1:1 chat
<ali12341> you can
<ali12341> this is obvious
<Pernig> ali12341: yes
<ali12341> webpigeon: what it actually means is that group chat exposes the flaws in empathy's UI design
<webpigeon> okay, I'll rephrase, *I* don't think *I* can use the same kind of design for the two
<ali12341> they are still flaws even when you are in 1:1 chat though
<ali12341> they are just slightly less annoying
<Pernig> i kind of wish i could have irc in kopete
<webpigeon> ali12341, I'm okay with the 1:1 chat design, for me it works with empathy and the things which telepathy enables are worth it
<ali12341> for example, putting everything everyone types in a huge speech bubble grahic totally sucks when you are on #ubuntu and it is scrolling at 100 lines per minute
<ali12341> but that sucks just as much in 1:1
<brobostigon> ali12341: no, but pidgins backends adds more prtotcols to bitlbee, but makes it massivly more heavier.
<webpigeon> I've never had an issue with that...
 * hamitron looks at ali12341's lines per min
<hamitron> ;)
<ali12341> the main thing i don't like with emapthy is the way it renders text
<brobostigon> i do like thoguh, how empathy integreates with gnome-shell.
<ali12341> like so many poor html renderers, pretty much any two lines will have a different height
<webpigeon> doesn't it use the gnome font rendering stack? :/
<webpigeon> brobostigon++
<brobostigon> that is when, empathy decides to behave, :)
<hamitron> tbh, empathy just confused me
<hamitron> so went to xchat
<hamitron> ;/
<ali12341> well i like how pidgin integrates with unity
<webpigeon> I use xchat for irc, hamitron
<brobostigon> hamitron: empathy for IM, and xchat for irc, you cant compare, they are totally differentthingd.
<ali12341> xchat is ugly
<brobostigon> and how can xchat do IM, without bitlbee, or similer?
<hamitron> tbh, comp programs really turn me on ;/
<ali12341> less ugly than empathy, but still ugly
<Pernig> i didn't think about xchat when i switched desktop env
<webpigeon> ali12341, programs are like people - it's not all about the looks
<hamitron> no comp*
<Pernig> might give that a go
<hamitron> eek
<Pernig> using konversation, it seems alright
<hamitron> I use pidgin for IM
<hamitron> no questions asked
<hamitron> :)
<ali12341> pretty much all an IM client has to do is receive messages and present them on the screen
<ali12341> and provide a way to reply
<webpigeon> ali12341, video confrencing integration is nice to
<hamitron> video? :|
<webpigeon> 1:1 that is
<ali12341> there is no great distinction between IM, IRC, and twitter
<Pernig> a lot of my friends used to Windows miss the features of MSN
<ali12341> they all work exactly the same
<Pernig> not that i condone MSN
<Pernig> WLM whatever they call it now
<webpigeon> hamitron, indeed, empathy supports webcam features
<Pernig> what an ugly piece of software
<ali12341> and video conferencing never works anyway
<hamitron> I got a 360kbit connection here, not tried
<hamitron> ;)
<ali12341> i have a phone for making phone calls. it support voip
<ali12341> like i said yesterday, i do not like talking to computer
<webpigeon> If i phoned everyone i talked to i would have massive international call charges :P
<Pernig> i have one friend in particular who goes mad when he can't send me files over the MSN protocol
<ali12341> unless you used voip
<Pernig> not that i would ever get them, coming in at 5KB/s :P
<webpigeon> Pernig, i've heard of this really cool thing, it's called email :P
<gord> kinda sucks that its 2011 and there is still not a good, well accepted way of transfering files from one person to another that works everywhere
<Pernig> webpigeon: exactly!
<jacobw> Upload to a web server :|
<hamitron> or dropbox
<hamitron> or google docs
<webpigeon> or bittorrent :P
<hamitron> torrents are hard
<hamitron> :/
<ali12341> NO
<Pernig> i think torrents are in their infancy still
<ali12341> only MSN file transfer is broken
<Pernig> there is so much that could be done with torrents that hasn't been done yet
<ali12341> because microsoft deliberately broke it for third party clients
<ali12341> file transfer over other protocols works
<Pernig> ali12341: they do that a lot
<webpigeon> ali12341, if you follow the TOS correctly, there shouldn't be any 3rd party clients
<hamitron> MS can get away with it, all the users who choose to use MSN are on MS Windows
<hamitron> :/
<ali12341> i don't know anyone who still uses MSN anyway, so i don't care
<Pernig> this is one _good_ thing about Facebook
 * hamitron spanks Pernig 
<Pernig> a lot more users are using FB chat rather than MSN now
<hamitron> there is nothing good from that _thing_
<webpigeon> now if we're looking for messaging systems which are a mess, facebook wins
<ali12341> yes, the one and only good thing about facebook is it keeps all those people off the rest of the internet
<Pernig> and while it might be a horrible in browser thing for them
<jacobw> i don't know anyone who uses MSN :|
<hamitron> ali12341: haha, like that
<Pernig> it's simple XMPP which works nicely for us! :P
<Pernig> jacobw: it was kind of the defacto standard as i was growing up
<jacobw> you still have to have a facebook account to use it
<ali12341> i'm getting really tired of hearing about "what google needs to do to attract facebook users"
<webpigeon> Pernig, kind of, the only problem is sometimes it's an IM and sometimes it's... not :/
<webpigeon> ali12341, what it needs to do is put them in a bit hole and leave them there
<jacobw> Pernig: same for me, but i never got in to using it, and people i know who used to use it don't use it anymore
<hamitron> google needs to slow down and get things right on launch for a cahnge :/
<hamitron> change*
<jacobw> Pernig: they all use facebook now, which i've also never gotten in to using
<ali12341> they should make google- and just let people spam it up with games and pokes and stuff
<ali12341> and keep it as far away from + as possible
<hamitron> haha
<jacobw> hehe
<Pernig> lol google-
<Pernig> i love it!
<jacobw> i'm undecided on whether to accept an invite to google+
<hamitron> can't we have google+ for the crap, and google- for proper people?
<webpigeon> If i see one more, "repost this or [thing]" in my news feed things are going to explode :/
<Pernig> jacobw: it's worth a punt
<jacobw> i have no use for it :| other than as some sort of linkedin emulator
<jacobw> not that i have a linkedin profile
<Pernig> don't you have to pay for linkedin?
<hamitron> I signed up to google+ and just don't get it tbh
<webpigeon> Pernig, only 90% of the features...
<Pernig> anyone in Lincolnshire here?
<ali12341> g+ is more like twitter without the character limit than it is like facebook
<Pernig> twitter, something i never did try
<hamitron> Pernig: I'm near Hull
<ali12341> pidgin has a plugin which makes twitter exactly the same as irc
<hamitron> haha
<Pernig> hamitron: are you in any LUGs?
<hamitron> imagine how big the twit page will be if this was it :)
<hamitron> Pernig: no
<webpigeon> ali12341, there is an irc/jabber server which does that to...
<Pernig> we are looking to reinvigorate ours at the moment, but it's in Lincoln, maybe a bit far for you
<Pernig> there is a Hull LUG though
<hamitron> Hull is a little too far tbh
<hamitron> I'm North of Hull
<Pernig> ah
<Pernig> Hull isn't nice anyway, haha
<hamitron> I like Hull tbh
<hamitron> :D
<Pernig> not been for a while
<hamitron> it has gone down lately tbh
<Pernig> i like the Deep :P
<hamitron> I found it.... too much for kiddies
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> and they had the Union Jack upside down
<hamitron> :(
<Pernig> is that the time?
<Pernig> unproductive evening :(
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> a weekend
<webpigeon> hamitron, are they in distress?
<hamitron> we can be forgiven
<Pernig> aye
<Pernig> i have a busy week next week
<Pernig> new job
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> webpigeon: shouldn't be, the fee they get for people entering
<Pernig> i think it's a bit like the bridge
<Pernig> it cost so much money, and now they have to pay for it
<Pernig> :P
<hamitron> main problem with the bridge, it goes nowhere
<hamitron> ;)
<Pernig> at least the A18 beneath it avoids the monstrosities that are Immingham and Grimsby
<hamitron> you start in Hull of all places, then end up at a Marshland, with the main attraction been Grimsby :/
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> haha
<hamitron> but I'd just go via Selby
<hamitron> ;/
<jacobw> i had to go to immingham this week :(
<Pernig> nice roads that way
 * jacobw lives in Leeds
<Pernig> you come out of Goole and it's like BAM
 * hamitron comforts jacobw 
<Pernig> there's this completely empty road
<hamitron> I think the country ends at Hull on the maps, and the East Riding does not exist on paper
<hamitron> nobody comes
<hamitron> :D
<Pernig> kind of similar where i am
<hamitron> yeh, apart from you are from the South
<hamitron> :)
<jacobw> i was in scotter in lincolnshire also this week
<jacobw> confirms my suspicion that there's nothing in lincolnshire
<funkyHat> I didn't even know Hull was on the map ;)
<hamitron> haha funkyHat
<jacobw> hull/hell
<hamitron> ofc it is, it the hole you try to never come to
<hamitron> if you get there, it all ends
<Pernig> Scotter is only just Lincolnshire haha
<hamitron> :/
<Pernig> it's a big old county
<Pernig> we are struggling to organise the LUG because it's so big and so sparsely populated
<hamitron> it is hard in rural areas
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> I keep thinking my area could do with one
<hamitron> but based on IRC more, with less regular meetings
 * Laney was in the east riding last week
<hamitron> Laney: enjoy? ;/
<Laney> yeah i quite like it
<jacobw> the countryside is nice
<Pernig> me too
<hamitron> yeh, it is nice tbh
<Pernig> i love riding through it
<hamitron> but not great for stuff like LUG
<Laney> biked from near beverley to brid
<Laney> via driffield :(
<hamitron> I do that 5 or 6 times per week :/
<hamitron> Laney: why the unhappy face
<hamitron> :/
<Laney> didn't seem like the nicest of towns
<hamitron> it isn't
<hamitron> haha
<Laney> they should pedestrianise that main street
<Laney> well, make it motor traffic free
<hamitron> it would be tough to direct traffic then though
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> it has gone downhill since the cattlemarket was closed
<hamitron> I try avoid it
<Laney> http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10100153190453898.2589628.199700154&l=1d1f3f563c&type=1
<Pernig> i'm not sure i'd cope with drop bars
<Pernig> the flat drag bars i have annoy me enough
<funkyHat> drop bars are awesome
<hamitron> Laney: oh, you used the new cycle route
<hamitron> :/
<funkyHat> Especially with newer brake levers. About a million different places you can hold them
<Pernig> Laney: how small does your tent pack down?
<Pernig> isn't that the one that the scouts use?
<Pernig> the type should i say
<Laney> it's a pretty old ridge tent
<Laney> poles went inside the rollmat and the canvas went small into a pannier
<Pernig> so you manage ok with it on the pushbike?
<hamitron> I love Hole of Horcum
<hamitron> try go once a month
<Laney> deffo
<Pernig> i might take a look at one for the motorbike, i considered them but was under the impression they were massive when folded down
<Laney> the A road at the hole is mental
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> but the walks into and around the hole are worth it
<hamitron> that round-a-bout at pickering I find the worst :/
<Laney> we went up at thornton
<brobostigon> nos da, schlaf gut, o/
<ball> Seeing #bbs just reminded me to check my netmail.
<penguin42> your what?
<ball> penguin42: Fidonet's equivalent of email, basically.
<Azelphur> having a fun issue, anything i do hangs
<penguin42> ball: Sorry, it's 2011 isn't it?
<ball> penguin42: I hadn't noticed ;-)
<Azelphur> touch a, hangs, iotop, hangs, sudo reboot now, hangs
<penguin42> ball :Wow I really hadn't realised fidonet still existed
<Azelphur> the machine is still responsive just anything i do hangs
<Azelphur> suggestions?
<ball> penguin42: barely
<ball> Azelphur: Has your hard disk failed?
<Azelphur> not that i know of
<Pernig> ball: Azelphur: also had this symptom as the result of a failed hard drive
<Azelphur> fun
<Azelphur> guess ill try magic reisub :p
<Pernig> not to jump to conclusions, but if it does prove to be that, it might be that there's a loose SATA connector or something
<Pernig> they're not the most robust of connectors
<Azelphur> hehe
<ball> Pernig: They're horrid cheap little things.
<ball> I don't believe in 'em.
<Pernig> ball: indeed
<Pernig> i've had more success with the ones with a metal release lever
<Pernig> bedtime for me
<Pernig> nn everyone
<ball> brb, sarnie
<ball> goodnight Pernig
<gord> kinda crazy how much you have to download just to update sometimes
#ubuntu-uk 2011-09-04
<HazRPG> freakyclown: I just thought (showing your talk to one of my friends), in VLC if you do ALT+H, it strips out the UI stuff, so instead of going into fullscreen you can take out the Play/Pause/Stop/etc buttons stuff
<HazRPG> freakyclown: to revert back, you can use ALT+H again
<HazRPG> oops, sorry... typo fail, its CTRL+H
<HazRPG> just incase you ever need to do a talk with videos in future, and the fullscreen mode seems to be stripping stuff out... you can do that :)
<ball> brb
<HazRPG> aww, clitrack isn't on the site :(
<HazRPG> I was intrigued as to what happens to images uploaded to facebook since it essentially shrinks the image down that you've uploaded
<ali1234> what do you mean "stripping stuff out"?
<ali1234> you mean if it crops because of aspect ratio?
<HazRPG> no, the exif, etc data embedded into jpgs
<HazRPG> morning \o
<MartijnVdS> woo fresh kernel
<HazRPG> ?
<popey> morning
<MartijnVdS> \o popey
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: there's a new kernel in oneiric this morning
<HazRPG> popey: morning :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: ah
<HazRPG> brb, just going to do a quick reboot
<MartijnVdS> just did that :)
<MartijnVdS> SSD booting \o/
<daubers> Morning
<HazRPG> daubers: morning
<HazRPG> bah, I'm knackered... trying to fight with 2 different mysql databases is not a fun way to spend a Sunday morning!
<HazRPG> AlanBell: Just been going through the videos on blip.tv for oggcamp11 (to see what I missed out on :() - Thought your talk was interesting! Trying to organise real-world stuff can be *very* difficult (in my experience) when it comes to people enthusiastic about computers/IT/etc... I think the biggest leap is trying to get/do something that encourages an experience that they couldn't already get at home. Remember, most of us are usually lazy and would
<HazRPG> AlanBell: What we've started doing at CLUG is having a meet every 2nd and 4th Sunday of the month - but so far we usually get a turn out of say 2-3 people tops at any one time (despite being in a building designed for members only - and with a built in pub!)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<daubers> o/
 * daubers can go home from work shortly \o/
<brobostigon> :)
<Laney> What should I make for Sunday dinner?
<popey> curry !
<Laney> did curried goat last week
<popey> \o/ goats!
<ali1234> curry goat?
<Laney> i'm not sure how to respond to that question
<HazRPG> o.O I just got an e-mail from Google saying the following: http://picpaste.com/Screenshot-6-vexcSbgY.png
<HazRPG> Oh, I forgot I set that up... o.O : http://www.google.com/alerts/
<popey> you have a google alert for your own name? vain ? :D
<Myrtti> I have one for mine, doesn't everyone have?
<Myrtti> *shrug*
<HazRPG> popey: out of paranoia, when I found out that searching for your name shows your address because of the whole public electoral thing
<HazRPG> Myrtti: apparently its just us :P
<Laney> there are people who don't opt out of the edited register?
<HazRPG> Laney: Didn't know you could o.O
<gord> you're so vain, you probably think this google alert is about you...
<popey> :D
<HazRPG> Laney: I bet most probably don't know either...
<Laney> maybe people should read forms they fill in
<HazRPG> Laney: I didn't fill it in, I was automatically registered in...
<HazRPG> you think if I filled it in I wouldn't tick the "opt-out" box?
<Laney> there's an annual canvas
<Laney> if someone else filled it out for you, you should take it up with them
<popey> mine arrived in the post about 10 mins ago
<HazRPG> considering my sister doesn't vote, and its only me and here that live here... I can't think who'd auto-fill me in
 * czajkowski hugs popey and runs away 
<HazRPG> I even moved house and I get a "vote at your nearest poll" when the next election came through, without me registering that I'd moved
<HazRPG> ... and the house is in my step-dads name o.O
<HazRPG> also, I've nagged several times on sites that had my details, along with the local council... and never hear back from any of them
<wolfkin> i need help, I can not type in chinese
<Myrtti> myyh
<Myrtti> Finland :-|
<jpds> Clearly didn't have ibus running.
<isleofmandan> Anyone answer a quick question about bug reporting?
<AlanBell> o/ isleofmandan
<isleofmandan> When apport collects data, and sends me to launchpad, if I choose an already existing bug it seems that all the data collected by apport is discarded. If I find a new bug, things get attached to the report. Is that normal behaviour?
<penguin42> I think so
<popey> isleofmandan: yes
<ali1234> isleofmandan: there's a way to add the logs etc to an existing bug report but i forget how
<ali1234> and it is probably unneccessary anyway
<popey> isleofmandan: you can run apport-collect with the bug number I think
<popey> or file a new bug and mark it a dupe of the other one
<isleofmandan> Thanks. Just seemed odd to collect the data and not do anything with it.
<popey> yeah
<popey> isleofmandan: how goes the lug?
<isleofmandan> I've just done the tweets/email publicity thing. Having our first get together next Sunday morning
<isleofmandan> hopefully it won't just be me!
<popey> have you asked mark if he's around?
<isleofmandan> I CC'd him....
<popey> cool
<popey> he travells a lot I understand
<popey> so might not be about
<isleofmandan> I expect he lives here for 'tax purposes' ;)
<popey> :D
<popey> perhaps
<popey> doing a hotblack desiato
<isleofmandan> lol
<MissAngel> hi
<brobostigon> afternoonings MissAngel
<MissAngel> are there any options for proper kde integration with ubuntu one?
<MissAngel> or should I stick with dropbox
<popey> probably better off asking in #kubuntu
<MissAngel> ok
<bigcalm_lappy486> Afternoon popey et al
<popey> pip pip
<bigcalm_lappy486> You invaded my dreams last night, how rude
<bigcalm_lappy486> Actually, I think a lot of people from the pre-oggcamp bbq where invading my dreams
<penguin42> was it something about the meat?
<bigcalm_lappy486> Pendulum: there were melting gummy bears
<bigcalm_lappy486> Doh
<bigcalm_lappy486> penguin42: there were melting gummy bears
<Pendulum> bigcalm: you must really love me :P
<laptop> jjj
<daubers> \o/
<Guest74624> ho
 * daubers is starting to have success with matt stuffs
 * daubers waits for the soldering iron to cool down
<tris2468> ubuntu car: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jonnyentropy/6112073746/
<penguin42> melting gummy bears is cruel
<suprengr> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-14779014 - doesn't anybody in the police watch Top Gear?  ;)
<ali1234> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14779772 lol
<suprengr> ali1234, now that *is* cool
<ali1234> not really its just funny
<suprengr> probably the best broken down coach..............................................................
<suprengr> ....................................................................... in the world
<ali1234> stop the coach, get off, wind up the local kids, and then the coach breaks down when they decide to make their getaway
<ali1234> priceless
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Matt Daubney] Arduinos, MQTT and Light levels - http://daubers.co.uk/2011/09/04/arduinos-mqtt-and-light-levels/
<Featurefreak> woah, dude, it's 4:20 on a sunday, damn my weekend is gone
<Featurefreak> anyone tried out rhythmbox or other music apps on a low powered netbook, i'm finding banshee is just a bit heavy for my old Eeepc
<Featurefreak> mmmkay google shows me a few light weight options on omgubuntu, guayadeck, Beatbox, DeadBeef,,, anyone tried any of these?
<tris2468> Featurefreak: Rhythmbox works fine on my eeepc 701
<Featurefreak> banshee works, just it tends to drag down my machine when trying to do other operations
<exobuzz> ubuntu peoples - any of you fancy a demo scene event? http://www.sunrisedemoparty.co.uk/
<exobuzz> next weekend, luton. going to be good fun
<Featurefreak> banshee and rhythmbox have similar RAM profiles when playing back as far as i can tell, but not sure haven't tested rhthmbox for just cpu load.
<Featurefreak> How do i make use of something like RadioTray in Unity? as no tray icons seems to be supported in Unity,
<Featurefreak> similarly AllTray becomes useless
<Featurefreak> but just generally, quite a few apps are a bit broken because of unity's lack of a tray
<penguin42> is it bad when I read CMake as cake ?
<Featurefreak> penguin42: nooo, your baking your apps.. and it's a perfect time for Cake
<penguin42> :-)
<penguin42> I thought all times were perfect for cake?
<Featurefreak> :P
 * Featurefreak hummms lazy town / lil jon  bake a cake(remix)   tune
<Featurefreak> so unless they add notification area support for radio-tray, i'm boned
<Featurefreak> :(
<Featurefreak> i really wanted to try it out
<Featurefreak> well, moving on to deadbeef
<Featurefreak> penguin42: the only time that's not perfect for cake is steak time
<penguin42> hmm that's a hard one to call
 * Featurefreak wishes steak and bj day was real
<popey> eh?
<Featurefreak> arrrg,, that's driving me nuts, now i minimised my music player with teh "minimize to task tray" option enabled,, and yes, it dissapears.. :(
<ikonia> what's going on in the UK today ?
<ikonia> about 5:15 yes ?
<jpds> ikonia: Yes.
<popey> dunno
<ikonia> there is a daylight shift here so I can't be %100 certain
<ikonia> it's either 4:15 or 5:15
<popey> neither
<ikonia> oh
<ikonia> what time is it ?
<popey> 17:19
<popey> :D
<ikonia> smart
<ikonia> are you back from camping now, I think you said saturday ?
<popey> yeah, back home now
<ikonia> so you have connection now without having to be in a field
<popey> indeed
<ikonia> good break ?
<popey> very
<ikonia> not long enough, or just enough
<popey> first place I've been where there is a hot tub in the garden
<popey> kids _loved_ it
<ikonia> that's slick
<bigcalm> Pendulum: oh, but I do :)
<awilkins> Ooh, nice touch, xchat-gnome packaging drops you into this channel by default now
<awilkins> Any one else getting this annoying thing where the auto-dimming on their laptop is inverted with Oneiric?
<gord> inverted?
<awilkins> It's bright until you touch a key, then it dims
<gord> weird
<awilkins> ANd it doesn't turn off when the power is connected either
<awilkins> Giving me a headache
<gord> apt-get install dconf-tools then use dconf-editor to look at the values setup maybe? can't quite remember where they are but something like org.gnome.power-manager or something
<awilkins> Hmm, now it's the right way round again.. no fade though. Maybe if I turn on Compiz effects
<awilkins> Or try UNity 2d
<gord> compiz really can't have anything to do with screen brightness
<awilkins> It was the loss of the fade transition that made me suspect it but I know very little
<awilkins> GAh, and why can't they make the GTK tree control expand trees on the right cursor key ....
<gord> awilkins, because you haven't filed a but about it in gtk? ;)
<gord> "The Toy Store (accessanything) is now listening to your notices on Identi.ca" - i am thrilled...
<gord> " accessanything
<gord>     The Toy Store
<gord>     best catfood online here, just click"
<ali1234> why is a toy store selling cat food
<ali1234> thats, like, false advertising, man
<DJones> Oh dear, El Reg has been hacked
<czajkowski> aloha
<Azelphur> lol
<Azelphur> Anyone recommend a nice sata 3.5 & 2.5 dock?
<Azelphur> Something that takes big drives, I have 2TB drives floating about.
<AlanBell> http://wikileaks.org/cable/2010/02/10CHIANGMAI18.html interesting . . .
<popey> AlanBell: how so?
<popey> planning on moving to thailand?
<brobostigon> question, why would our adsl modem say, it has a in sync adsl connection, but then as soon as i ping through it, i get 100% packet loss, ?
<brobostigon> and have an outside ip addr.
 * popey tickles aquarius_ 
 * aquarius_ is tickled
<aquarius_> why am I underlined?
<AlanBell> popey: read 9 and 10
 * AlanBell is blogging it and lacks a headline
<aquarius_> hm, there's a different aquarius, claiming to be me
<AlanBell> !ghost
<lubotu3> If you own an IRC nick that is currently being used, you can make it change nicks by typing: /msg nickserv release <nick> <password> | If you have a dead (ghost) connection, you can make it quit by typing: /msg nickserv ghost <nick> <password> | further help in #freenode
<AlanBell> "Microsoft Thailand criticise Thailand's pro-open source policies" lacks impact
<aquarius_> AlanBell, yeah, yeah, I'm gonna; just a little concerned that this other person declares their name as Stuart Langridge
<aquarius> fixed, anyway
<aquarius> but hm.
<AlanBell> yeah, I wouldn't trust that Stuart Langridge bloke at all
<AlanBell> especially not with anything flamable
<AlanBell> anyhow, help me write a headline!
 * Laney wonders how to pronounce Xournal
<AlanBell> zurnal
<Laney> aha
<Laney> I liked cs-urnal
<Laney> cszurnal
<AlanBell> brobostigon: the adsl layer might be up, but the tcp bit might be screwed
<brobostigon> AlanBell: yes, that seems to be the case, the avidence agrees.
<popey> gotcha AlanBell
<AlanBell> "Microsoft pulling dirty tricks in Thailand"
<popey> do you 'pull' dirty tricks?
<DJones> Evening popey Did you have a good holiday
<popey> very, yes thanks!
<popey> back to work tomorrow :D
<DJones> So likely to be a shock to the system
<popey> well, i start on a new job so should be fairly easy :D
<mgdm> popey: Cool, up to anything new?
<popey> still SAP, new customer
<shauno> (completely off-topic, but http://www.google.co.nz/ for tomorrow's doodle, today.  Freddie ftw \o/)
<popey> SAP on Linux though, which makes it bareable
<popey> oh nice shauno
<mgdm> popey: ah, cool
<bigcalm> Life isn't fair. I'm having to trash my box model email layout and redo it with a table.
<mgdm> Breaking: email sucks, film at 11
<shauno> that's what you get for putting html in email.  shame on you!
<bigcalm> shauno: yes, tell that to every client who wants HTML in their emails
<AlanBell> bigcalm: what are you using for delivery?
<bigcalm> AlanBell: Um. PHP?
<shauno> ironically, most of ours don't, because it fails at email-to-sms gateways
<mgdm> shauno: those are a hideous hack gaffer taped to a hideous hack, so... :)
<AlanBell> bigcalm: openEMM might be interesting to you
<shauno> trying to target sms makes me a happy mutt user :)
<AlanBell> it is an email marketing platform
<AlanBell> or spam engine
<bigcalm> AlanBell: client already has a system in place
<AlanBell> ok
<bigcalm> I'm meant to be re-skinning their existing stuff. Forgot that email doesn't like the box model
<bigcalm> Dragging this client's site out of 2001 is tricky
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alan Bell] Microsoft pulling dirty tricks in Thailand - http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2011/09/04/microsoft-dirty-thai-trick/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=microsoft-dirty-thai-trick
<gord> that is a lot of url for one link
<AlanBell> yeah, sorry about that
<AlanBell> it is google analytics screwing with the RSS feed
<gord> no need to apologise ;) just interesting
 * AlanBell lines up a followup article about http://wikileaks.org/cable/2009/08/09TOKYO1813.html
<gord> ah, so thats why xbmc freaked out and everything died, forgot to install nvidia drivers
<gord> impressive what the open source ones can do though, all the advanced stuff we do in unity worked out of the box, active blur behind the dash and all
<roy_> hey quick question and i apologise if you get asked this alot but what would you's recommend to someone who wants to develop ubuntu apps for the first time
<ball> roy_: What kind of apps?
<popey> roy_: quickly
<popey> roy_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Quickly
<roy_> well at the minute it would just be basic things to help get me started in developing in an ubuntu environment
<stuartward> roy_: I would suggest contributing to existing projects as a starting point
<ali1234> quickly is neither quick nor easy to use
<ball> roy_: developing /what/ though?
<ali1234> "apps"
 * ball snorts
<ali1234> qt creator is about a million times better than anything else on ubuntu
<ali1234> pretty much only visual studio is better
<roy_> just silly things at the minute like a phone book or game
<popey> monodevelop :D
<ali1234> is awful
<ali1234> basically avoid anything involving gtk
<ball> Does Unity use gtk?
<ali1234> no it uses nux
<ali1234> and unity2d uses qt
<ball> Is nux a Canonical thing?
<ali1234> yes
<ball> Is it a GUI toolkit... something like awt and Xt lumped together?
<AlanBell> I think it is *only* for the unity stuff over the top of the desktop
<AlanBell> which is one reason they broke on-screen keyboards
<ball> brb
 * popey shakes his fist at unity drop shadow again
<ali1234> according to the docs, nux has a complete reimplementation of the gtk api
<ali1234> here is a puzzler for you: http://pastebin.com/SQUW70yn
<Laney>  Nux is a graphical user interface toolkit for applications that mixes opengl
<Laney>  hardware acceleration with high quality visual rendering.
<Laney> World's best package descriptionâ¢
<mgdm> ali1234: a complete reimplementation of GTK+? That sounds a bit... insane
<ali1234> mgdm: maybe it was a subset
<ali1234> i dunno, check the docs
 * Laney is sad there are no indicators on gnome-panel 3 yet
<ali1234> and it's only API, not 100% functionality
<ball> ali1234: Was there something they didn't like about the gtk license, or was there a technical rationale?
<ali1234> i dunno, ask gord
<ali1234> or #ayatana
<AlanBell> there is some technical separation
<AlanBell> so the workplace switcher does a compiz zoom out of the 4 desktops
<gord> nux is nothing like gtk no
<AlanBell> but not the panel and unity gubbins, that stays where it is
<AlanBell> is nux useable for anything but unity gord?
<ali1234> if you want to do low level graphics stuff use qml
<gord> AlanBell, yup you can use it for other stuff
<gord> qml is crap for low level graphics...
<AlanBell> should onboard be rewritten as a NUX app?
<ali1234> i don't mean "lets raep the framebuffer" low level
<ali1234> i mean "let's use simple primitives like rectangles sprites instead of complex widgets"
<gord> ali1234, thats not low level
<ali1234> i know
<ali1234> low level is the wrong description
<gord> AlanBell, is there a need for it? i mean, nux is C++
<AlanBell> gord: well, onboard is broken with unity because it is in the layer below the nux stuff even though it is always on top
<AlanBell> should onboard be part of the unity frame?
<AlanBell> so a keyboard that pops out of the bottom of the launcher like the dash pops out of the top?
<AlanBell> then it would not be subject to layering problems and wouldn't zoom out and be on the wrong desktop or get in the way of other windows etc
<gord> AlanBell, nah, i mean unless you want that neat integration that you could get - really somehow who really understands how onboard works just needs to fix either onboard/unity to make them play nice
<AlanBell> onboard is a python app, fairly simple
<ali1234> on screen keyboard?
<AlanBell> yeah
<ali1234> i have a nice touchscreen netbook, i could take a look at that
<AlanBell> you can't type into the unity search box with it
<ali1234> oneiric?
<AlanBell> yeah
<AlanBell> works in Unity 2d
<AlanBell> in 3d you click in the search box then click onboard and the dash closes
<ali1234> nux isn't going to help you there
<AlanBell> nux isn't a simple fix, certainly
<ali1234> it isn't a fix at all
<gord> interesting, i wonder if there is any window hint set on the onboard window so we can detect a click on it
<AlanBell> where would such a hint be set?
<ali1234> in the window creation
<gord> in the code somewhere? i'm not at all familiar with how onboard works, or what toolkit it uses
<AlanBell> pygtk
<ali1234> is it half decent? or would it be better to just start from scratch
<ali1234> or just steal whatever meego uses
<gord> you can use xprop to find out what hints its setting, xprop -name onboard or whatever it is
<AlanBell> ali1234: it is half decent
<AlanBell> there may be better alternatives in the pipeline
<ali1234> well ok the oneiric installer totally failed on my netbook which already has oneiric, meego and windows 7 installed on it
<AlanBell> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~onboard/onboard/main/view/head:/Onboard/KbdWindow.py#L15
<AlanBell> that is where it sets up the window
<ali1234> self.window.property_change("_NET_WM_STRUT_PARTIAL",
<ali1234> bingo
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/682173/
<AlanBell> gord: xprop output ^^
<gord> well no, a window with a strut isn't something we should match on, thats not a good hint - its set by things like docks and panels and stuff
<gord> AlanBell, doesn't look like there is anything to match against, kind hard to know if a window is onboard or $random_other_thing
<gord> doesn't mean that one can't be distro-patched in though
<AlanBell> we can do it upstream if that is easier
<AlanBell> it was written for Ubuntu
<gord> will need to figure out whats best when i have window manager guys around me tomorrow :)
<AlanBell> cool
<gord> oh wait tomorrow is holidays in the US, maybe tuesday
<AlanBell> I did the theme update to get colours fonts and super key icons matching the updated Ubuntu branding
<ali1234> um
<ali1234> this is bad
<ali1234> it's so slow that pressing a key often results in 50 of that letter
<AlanBell> http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2011/04/21/ubuntu-natty-in-virtualbox-with-unity/
<ali1234> keys get stuck down
<AlanBell> ali1234: I was getting that behaviour from a physical keyboard with oneirirc
<AlanBell> couldn't type in my password
<ali1234> never seen that
<ali1234> been testing since a3
<gord> we'll need to make sure onboard is always on top of unity too
<AlanBell> that was when running it in virtualbox
<AlanBell> bug 739812
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 739812 in unity "Must use hardware keyboard to perform search for applications in Unity" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/739812
<ali1234> also it is horribly layed out
<AlanBell> ali1234: it is *far* from perfect
<AlanBell> but it is in the repos and on the disk
<AlanBell> and does support different themes and layouts and scanning keyboards
<ali1234> scanning keyboards?
<AlanBell> for use with a switch, it highlights a row at a time and you click when the row you want is there, then it scans columns and you click the letter you want
<ali1234> the theming is uneccessary anyway
<AlanBell> Stephen Hawkin stuff
<AlanBell> the theming is unneccessary, the layouts are important though
<AlanBell> scanning I am not sure needs to be on the disk
<AlanBell> but it does need to do international layouts
<hamitron> does anyone know the keyboard controls for codemasters Jonah Lomu Rugby for DOS? ;)
<ging> if the answer is yes for anyone you need to get out more
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> nothing wrong with the odd gaming session
<hamitron> :)
<ali1234> could OSK be implemented as a unity lense?
<gord> no
<ali1234> maybe not technically a lense, but a button on the launcher that you press it and the kb slides out
<gord> you could, but you might as well just write an application that does that, then have a launcher to launch it
<ali1234> it needs to be able to be hidden easily too
<ali1234> you can't hide an app by clicking on the launcher
<ali1234> you can put a big minimize button on the app but that wastes space you could use for something useful like bigger keys
<ali1234> in the end it's pointless though since unity is unusable on a touch screen anyway
<ali1234> so i dunno why i'm even considering it
<AlanBell> I think that is a 12.10 suggestion
<ali1234> "make unity work on tablets"?
<AlanBell> implement a keyboard as part of unity
<ali1234> the tablet fad will be over by then and it will be something else
<AlanBell> I don't quite understand why it is broken on tablets when they got so excited by multi-touch for a few weeks
<ali1234> because whoever is designing it has no clear plan or direction
<gord> multi-touch comes through synaptics not touch-screens
<gord> ie: apple touch pads and such
<AlanBell> and the Dell XT2
<AlanBell> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/455
<gord> stuff like that yeah, at the moment, unity really isn't designed for devices that only have a touch screen
<gord> it would be great to have it work nicely on such things though, but there are only so many hours in the day and right now we are focused on more important stuff like making 11.10 as nice as we can
<AlanBell> but only because it auto-hides the launcher and won't let you get it back
<ali1234> and the menus
<ali1234> don't forget those
<AlanBell> them too
<ali1234> and the window buttons
<AlanBell> same as menus really
<ali1234> if you maximize a window on a tablet you are stuffed
<AlanBell> oh and scroll bars
<AlanBell> but there are gestures for those
<ali1234> can't close it, cant minimize it, can't access the launcher cause it's hidden
<ali1234> oh yeah scroll bars too
<ali1234> does anyone else ever try to resize a window using the right edge and get blocked by the scroll bar?
<AlanBell> but apart from the launcher, scroll bars, menus, window buttons it is perfect!
<ali1234> if you go a bit too far
<AlanBell> and on screen keyboard
<gord> like i said, not designed for a touch only device :)
<AlanBell> :)
<AlanBell> night all o/
<ali1234> i'm having great difficulty understanding what it is designed for
<ali1234> oneiric no longer works properly on my netbooks because the dash is now too big
<gord> yeah but i could come to you with a delicious cake and you would complain that its not a spanner ;)
<ball> Mmmmm... cake. :-9
<ali1234> i don't really believe that unity was designed at all
<ali1234> i think rather it's a collection of ideas that some bunch of people came up with
<ali1234> and didn't consider how they would all work together
<ali1234> some of the ideas are good
<ali1234> some of them are just poorly implemented
<ali1234> and some of them are just plain awful
<gord> wow, i got to the minus world in super mario bros! i'v been trying to do that for years
<ball> A few people have asked me "what's the deal with that Unity thing?" (they're American ;-)  I'm guessing it facilitates a move away from Gnome.  Is that just because Gnome's heading off in a direction that doesn't suit Canonical (or Ubuntu)?
<gord> its not a move away from gnome really, we are still based on gnome, we use gnome applications, libraries, daemons. its just different shells for those applications to live in
<gord> ubuntu has always done things differently from gnome
<ball> gord: In that Ubuntu used a modified Gnome desktop?
<gord> ball, yeah, with its own tech, like notify-osd and indicators
<ball> I think I know what notify-osd is.  Not sure about indicators (except on a car ;-)
<gord> the icons in the top right for your power and network and blutooth, all that stuff
<gord> actually everything in the top right is an indicator
<ball> Ah, I've seen those.
<ball> Didn't know they had a name.
<ball> ...or that they weren't part of Gnome
<ball> (I've had limited Gnome experience)
<ali1234> gnome has virtually identical icons just implemented in a different way
<ball> Does Unity handle those in a way that's compatible with Ubuntu?
<ali1234> whut?
<ball> (with X clients that were written with Ubuntu in mind... with the way that Ubuntu did those things with Gnome)
<ball> (indicators)
<ali1234> no, it doesn't
<ali1234> old style gnome panel applets aren't even supported on gnome3
<ali1234> and systray stuff is specifically blacklisted
<ali1234> actually there's a whitelist for allowed applications
<Azelphur> Anyone happen to know of a SATA/IDE dock with USB3 support?
<Azelphur> been trying to find one :(
<ali1234> so unity can do it, but the functionality has been disabled
<ali1234> Azelphur: use esata
<gord> i know a nice case that has four loading bays for sata drives Azelphur :)
<ball> USB 3.0 had been handy at work.
<Azelphur> gord: :P
<ball> Jobs that used to take twelve hours are now down to five hours.
<Azelphur> ali1234: I don't even know if the eSATA is wired up on my PC, haha
<Azelphur> but eSATA isn't available everywhere
<Azelphur> where as USB is
<gord> usb 3 isn't ;)
<gord> is usb3 downgradable? i'v no idea
<Azelphur> it is
<Azelphur> so it'll plug into a USB2 port
<gord> funky, though running sata drives off usb2 can't be pretty
<Azelphur> *shrug* I just want to be able to copy large amounts of data without disassembling things
<Azelphur> I don't mind waiting either :P
<ball> gord: It's backwards compatible, which is somewhat useful.
 * ball shudders at the thought of disks on a USB 1.1 port.
<Azelphur> think I'll just have to get one that only does sata and screw ide :p
<gord> could you not just set up a nas? or does it need to be super portable or something
<Azelphur> ide is ancient anyway \o/
<Azelphur> gord: I want a one stop shop for PC repair / general usefulness
<Azelphur> so yea, portable
<ball> Azelphur: `I wouldn't expect to find USB 3.0 on a PATA adaptor.
<gord> ah, i have ubuntu on a usb stick for that
<Azelphur> gord: I have that too, but that unfortunately doesn't make hard drives magically connect to computers :P
<ball> Oh well, time to go and try to attach my wife's numberplate to her van.
<gord> why is amazon recommending "ping pong balls for cats" to me... they can't even hold the bats
 * ball coughs up a furball from laughing
 * ball fur
#ubuntu-uk 2012-08-27
<hoover> morning all
<czajkowski> aloha
<christel> morning :)
<AlanBell> morning all
<czajkowski> AlanBell: how does one update the factoid
<czajkowski> it's pulling a wrong url in
<christel> morning bell
<czajkowski> christel: ello
 * soreau says hi
<christel> HELLO GORGEOUS LOVELY AMAZINGLY AWESOME czajkowski
<christel> hi soreau :)
<czajkowski> hehehe
<AlanBell> czajkowski: which factoid?
<czajkowski> christel: you back in the UK yet ?
<christel> czajkowski: nej! touch down at gatwick just before midday tomorrow :)
<christel> looking forward to getting home tbh!
<czajkowski> AlanBell: https://lp-oops.canonical.com  is wrong it should be https://oops.canonical.com/ when you give it an OOPS - LONG NUMBER
<soreau> christel: How do you stay so overly excited and happy all the time? I want some of these drugs (unless it's because you're gay, then I don't want any)
<AlanBell> oh, that isn't a factoid exactly czajkowski
<czajkowski> :/
<czajkowski> AlanBell: ah ok
<czajkowski> soreau: eh
<AlanBell> czajkowski: I will try to find out about that one
<czajkowski> AlanBell: thanks we use it a lot in the LP channel
<AlanBell> yeah, it is a different plugin
<AlanBell> but I have to go out now, being shouted at.
<christel> soreau: i dunno, i surround myself with wonderful friends, good food and much fun! i'm not particularly gay i think, unless i am simply not aware of it yet :o
<soreau> christel: sounds expensive
<christel> not at all, they don't tend to charge ;)
<soreau> You don't pay for food and fun?
<christel> well yes, but you sort of have to buy food to survive etc... fun doesn't have to be expensive though!
<soreau> I guess wonderful people would help but I haven't run across many in my lifetime
<czajkowski> soreau: get out more and meet them :0
<czajkowski> :)
<soreau> czajkowski: From my experience, there aren't really any good people out there
<czajkowski> you're clearly not had much experience then, unfortunate.
<soreau> The people I meet IRL are all.. horrible. On IRC, people seem much more decent
<soreau> For instance, I've never met anyone IRL that uses IRC regularly
<soreau> maybe I can go to a ubuntu release party or something :P
<popey> heh, pretty much every single person at an ubuntu release party uses irc daily
<popey> morning
<czajkowski> popey: good day to you sir!
<popey> Y U NO Holiday!?
<czajkowski> I swap to Thursday
<czajkowski> very handy thing to do
<popey> ah
<czajkowski> Fly to ireland on Thursday for a wedding and a few last min jobs to do then so made sense to swap
<czajkowski> plus it;'s lovely and quiet to work today at least till 2 till stateside wakes up
<czajkowski> :)
<christel> hehe
<bigcalm> Morning :)
 * popey breaks lp for czajkowski 
<hoover> Morning biggie
<bigcalm> Hi hoover
<czajkowski> popey: shhh it's a bit ill in parts already
<weer> hi, i am facing a serious problem: i tried to recover my password of my (only one) account (as instructed here: http://naveenubuntu.blogspot.gr/2012/05/recover-login-password-of-ubuntu-1204.html ). it was successful but whenever i try to log in the screen blanks for a sec and redirects me back to login screen. some help please
<directhex> they're selling naga chilis at tesco now
<directhex> http://www.tesco.com/groceries/Product/Details/?id=274324290
<czajkowski> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nefPAXvMSKk&feature=youtu.be  :)
<directhex> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-14191290
<daubers> o/
<arsen> oooh dangerous.
<mattt> only one thing worse than putting a hot chili in your mouth ...................
<arsen> rubbing it in your eyes :<
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<czajkowski> hmmm
<czajkowski> flash seems to be gone on my latest updates
<czajkowski> most anonying
<AlanBell> http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00xwctd Pond Life \o/
<brobostigon> lol, it is on the national news, the lion sighting in clacton.
<AlanBell> has anyone got a missing lion?
<brobostigon> they specified as far as they know, none is missing.
<AlanBell> but why stop a good story because of the facts
<brobostigon> very true.
<penguin42> AlanBell: And you have to ask the question, is it more likely that it's a hoax, or someone in Essex was drunk/mad enough to find a Lion and lose it?
<arsen> it's probably a footballers rare breed of large cat
<DJones> I blame Gary for the lion, isn't it his area of the world to live in
<shauno> it's probably just someone wearing uggs and far too much animal-print.  I mean, it is essex ..
 * jacobw thinks it's a stray dog
<jacobw> where would a lion come from?
<jacobw> bloody essex
<DJones> Apparaently it drove off in a white ford escort wearing white high heel shoes
<zleap> lol
<zleap> the police are taking reports seriouisly
<zleap> shame if you call up about an intruder they are too busy to come out, maybe that is a new tactic don't report a burgular say you have a lion prowling round
<zleap> lol
<jacobw> that's .. a good idea
<zleap> lol
<KrimZon> I wonder who owns the field it was sighted in
<alexcockell> Hi all..
<penguin42> Hey
<alexcockell> Just added to the list of media services we lost on the ubuntu-uk email list..
<alexcockell> As of tomorrow, Blinkbox is going Silverlight as well...
<Azelphur> Amazon called me today because they wanted to talk about the unsatisfied customer review, I explained the situation to the guy and he said that it should be possible to do, he's gone off to investigate \o/
<alexcockell> Azelphur - sorry - I've come in halfway - what's going on?
<Azelphur> alexcockell: been trying to get a windows tax refund
<penguin42> Azelphur: I'll be amazed if you get it!
<Azelphur> penguin42: I'm persistent :)
<penguin42> Azelphur: You could get a job harrying support centres for other people
<Azelphur> haha
<alexcockell> Reminds me of that old episode of UserFriendly when AJ flew a C130 over Redmond...
<alexcockell> I was wondering - what with Netflix, Lovefilm and now Blinkbox all gone to Silverlight on the browser - but available to embedded Linux kit on tellies, in Rokus and similar...
<alexcockell> ... would Canonical have any leverage if they were to develop a native application for the services?
<penguin42> alexcockell: It's very difficult - I mean how many users would you get compared to say a major TV vendor?
<Azelphur> alexcockell: google play has quite a lot of movies and is powered by flash/html5
<alexcockell> Nah - I was meaning for Canonical to license a Blinkbox client.
<alexcockell> I'd gladly pay...
<alexcockell> I just don't care any more.  I just want Canonical to enter into discussions.. and if we have to say "stuff Stallman" on this one...
<alexcockell> Otherwise - it looks like the next netbook/ultrabook purchase will have to be a Windows one.
<alexcockell> and I;'ll have to jettison Linux..
<alexcockell> Consider i GLADLY buy HBO licences from Blinkbox/Tesco..
<penguin42> alexcockell: If you look Canonical already have various commercial stuff in their partner repos
<alexcockell> Yes - but CAN I PLAY PLAYREADY CONTENT on Ubuntu 12.04 when I eventually upgrade?
<penguin42> alexcockell: I haven't got a clue about playready content, and stop shouting
<alexcockell> Sorry - the annoucement only arrived on Friday - and it goes tomorrow..
<alexcockell> Just annoyed that that's all the major streaming services lost to Linux - possibly permanently
<alexcockell> Except in the form of appliances...
<czajkowski> Azelphur: did you find the law to refer to to Amazon and not just a blog
<penguin42> alexcockell: It's the type of thing that fluendo would probably be the best to solve
<Azelphur> czajkowski: yes
<czajkowski> which one and what oart of the law in particular
<Azelphur> The Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002
<Azelphur> you'd have at least the first page or two for it to make sense
<czajkowski> is that a UK law or an EU law
<Azelphur> looks like it might actually be a UK one
<alexcockell> Looks like no joy at the mo..
<czajkowski> with regards to what ?
<directhex> it's not a question of technology, it's a question of licensing
<directhex> microsoft will not license playready to linux platforms which aren't fully locked down
<directhex> hence set top boxes work, and ubuntu doesn't
<alexcockell> I can kind of understand with browser plugins - as they hand off to browsers.. but why not an iTunes-like app?
<penguin42> alexcockell: Because you can always preload a library run a hacked X server or the like to dump the video
<alexcockell> And people don't attempt the same with FRAPS and playout on Win
<alexcockell> ?
<alexcockell> However, surely if Big Media met us halfway - then people would be less inclined to infringe...
<alexcockell> Does seem to be a bit of a showstopper for Linux though..
<penguin42> alexcockell: You could probably make a locked down Linux image using the secureboot stuff that they might agree to; the downside being that you couldn't do much in it
<alexcockell> Why are Hollywood so paranoid?
<alexcockell> Was possibly so different 2 years ago - http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-1091125.html
<penguin42> alexcockell: Because people copying their stuff
<czajkowski> who actually uses netflix ?
<alexcockell> Yeah - but isn't that primarily down to lack of access?
<alexcockell> They've had to be dragged kicking and screaming every step..
<alexcockell> Hence how it's been easier for Brits to get access to Game of Thrones, for example, than in the States...
<popey> czajkowski, lots of people in the US
<popey> less so in the UK
<czajkowski> popey: aye I was more curious about UK
<popey> lots of people use amazon streaming too
<czajkowski> I know back in .ie one person tried it and made headlines after getting a bill for 400 euros from her isp for the downloads
<directhex> big old media companies have made their fortunes on one thing: access control
<czajkowski> scared a lot of people off it
<Laney> the netflix app for my TV is much better than the lovefilm one
<Laney> so, /me
<alexcockell> I was thinking re GOT - Sky Atlantic is on their basic package as opposed to something like Sky World, then Blinkbox secure streaming deals (I paid 18 quid)
<zleap> it seems if you make it hard  for people to do things legally then they wil find OTHER means of getting stuff,  shame the tv people can't see that
<directhex> they don't make money from making their content available to as many people as possible, they make their money from giving it to as few people as possible at any given moment
<directhex> so they can sell it in as many decreasing price bands over time as possible
<directhex> zleap is correct, of course, which is why they spend their money on lobbying for anti-consumer laws, not on making their content more available
<penguin42> they seem to forget about the decreasing bit ....
<popey> \o/ newsgroups
<directhex> penguin42, consider a movie. it gets sold to cinemas, then to movie channels like HBO and hotel on-demand networks
<popey> and stuff
<penguin42> directhex: Yep
<directhex> then on dvds and to regular TV networks
 * penguin42 wishes they'd stop screwing up the dvd releases of older films
<directhex> where does downloading fit on there? and how can you price differentiate a download in a different country?
<directhex> if someone in the US will pay $20 and someone in the UK will pay Â£20, you desperately need to stop the UK customer from paying the US price, or you lose money!
<alexcockell> Country and service specific streaming deals - rather than organising a proper wholesale market..
<alexcockell> If they did THAT - allowing the retail side to differentiate on price and convenience...
<penguin42> the same thing happens in other markets; drugs vary by orders of magnitude in cost depending on how competitive the market is
<alexcockell> End-customer looks at the hoops on different retail suppliers...
<directhex> competitive markets drive down consumer prices - and company profits
<directhex> cartels are profitable
<directhex> oh, and it's not just the consumer who gets dicked. actual filmmakers are effectively locked out from the entire game, unless they sign a contract with a cartel label
<alexcockell> But why then force people to buy specific devices in order to be able to use content?
<zleap> vendor lock in i guess
<penguin42> alexcockell: Don't try and see sense in the process
<directhex> alexcockell, because someone somewhere had a nice dinner with the manufacturer of a given device, therefore made it a rule
<alexcockell> And yet the *music* industry seem to be learning it..
<directhex> alexcockell, forcibly.
<directhex> alexcockell, music drm died due to consumer backlash
<directhex> there hans't been a similar backlash on movies etc yet
<alexcockell> Ahhh - yep - I remember..
<alexcockell> Shame that the studios don't actually grok it from the customer end...
<penguin42> directhex: I'm worried it's not dead, just sleeping - once physical CDs are actually dead, there's the possibility of it happening again
<directhex> until your aunt or uncle are angrily shouting to the gimp behind the counter at HMV, because their new music "CD" won't play in their computer or car, there's just "a few nerds" fighting against drm
<penguin42> it's fortunate there are enough different players to make it difficult at the moment
<directhex> once it's real people, it matters & can be plotted on cost/benefit curves
<alexcockell> It's not DRM *per se*... it's beign locked to specific architectures....
<soreau> Azelphur: windows tax refund?
<penguin42> alexcockell: The lock in is DRM, I think that's the only reason
<alexcockell> If Moonlight devs had been allowed to add PlayReady functionality...
<penguin42> alexcockell: But it'll be patented to hell and again, require you to verify your host has been locked down - see DRM
<soreau> If Moonlight devs were actually allowed to continue the project..
<Azelphur> soreau: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_refund
<alexcockell> I was hit by the iTunes lockout - one album I wanted was only availeble there - I've filed a request with the music streaming service I *do* use - We7 - to get the
<directhex> soreau, or if anyone in the community had submitted a patch rather than bile
<alexcockell> .... producers to see sense and release across the boaqrd
<directhex> alexcockell, tesco has enough money to bully others into getting things added to we7
<soreau> directhex: There would have been if it would have been feasible
<alexcockell> However, what can a non-dev like me do?  File complaints - that's all
<soreau> Azelphur: so you bought a system from amazon and want to get a refund on the windows tax only, not the entire OS?
<Azelphur> soreau: the entire OS
<soreau> Azelphur: Do you think they will ask you to return the complete system?
<directhex> they might
<Azelphur> soreau: they tried that, I refused a couple of times now but if they ask me to return the system again I will take it and go elsewhere
<directhex> the issue is, the windows license explicitly says "if you don't agree with this license, shut down & return the OS for a refund"
<shauno> not anymore it doesn't, as of 7
<directhex> huh, haven't actually read any windows paperwork since xp
<shauno> "By using the software, you accept these terms. If you do not accept them, do not use the software. Instead, contact the manufacturer or installer to determine its return policy. You must comply with that policy, which might limit your rights or require you to return the entire system on which the software is installed."
<directhex> i guess manufacturers started demanding that clause be changed, since it passes the buck
<directhex> nobody had a policy to handle windows refunds under the old license
<stilofromfr> Hello everybody , Im new to this , i dont mean to disturb , can i ask a noob question ?
<directhex> ask, don't ask to ask
<Azelphur> directhex: you can get a partial refund on the grounds that it's faulty because you can't use it though :p
<soreau> stilofromfr: sure
<Azelphur> !ask | stilofromfr
<lubotu3> stilofromfr: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<directhex> Azelphur, well, ish. it's difficult to actually navigate the bureaucracy
<Azelphur> yea
<stilofromfr> Okay Thanks , I already encountered this problem, its about root in ubuntu 12.04 I can't get to modify my usr/bin folder ( to install android sdk) I already installed long ago and it worked , but now I can get the correct permissions, I tried to log in via terminal but I can only get sudo su to work for one command , and as I m' learning cli navigating is hard , thus i'm looking for a way to activate my root under the gui, tha
<soreau> stilofromfr: What command are you running that's giving the error message?
<stilofromfr> when i enter su , and then my root passwd ( set up earlier) I can "authentication failure "
<stilofromfr> get*
<soreau> !root
<lubotu3> Do not try to guess the root password, that is impossible. Instead, realise the truth... there is no root password. Then you will see that it is 'sudo' that grants you access and not the root password. Look at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RootSudo
<penguin42> stilofromfr: Just try sudo -s    and enter your user password
<soreau> sudo -i
<penguin42> stilofromfr: But also, you don't need to install android-sdk in /usr/bin - I've just got it installed in any old directory
<soreau> stilofromfr: That's true, and it's good practice to install software that isn't from your distro repos, into a nonstandard prefix such as $HOME/android-sdk
<stilofromfr> true, but not getting permission for that folder is quite improtant, also having control over the root access is good , even if i understand the purpose of su , I'm not dealing with sensitive data
<stilofromfr> I mean I only have read access on my "files system" folder is that a major fence here?
<penguin42> stilofromfr: Generally people tend not to use su any more, they just use sudo
<soreau> stilofromfr: First, you should never run anything as root (or with sudo) unless you know why you need to
<stilofromfr> I understand thanks, so my question would be : How can i install a folder in my filessystem bin folder ?
<soreau> stilofromfr: Very carefully ;)
<directhex> stilofromfr, "sudo -i" will give you a root shell. anything you do in there has full root powers
<stilofromfr> thats great thanks, how could i get there with gui evnetually?
<soreau> that's dangerous but you can run nautilus
<stilofromfr> I've heard about that , it's a file explorer that give you root? but I remember being able to install files into everyfolders without problem it was under karmic koala
<stilofromfr> it changed?
<soreau> No, you'
<soreau> No, you've changed
<directhex> you might have enabled the root account, and have been using that
<directhex> i've been administering linux systems professionally for almost a decade, honestly i never use root when i don't need to. it's not about a lack of power, it's about not leaving the safety latch turned off
<soreau> stilofromfr: nautilus is a file browser, that you can run as user or root. However, when you run user applications as root, it may overwrite config settings and then might not work properly as user again
<soreau> no to mention security issues and other potential problems
<penguin42> soreau: Yeh it's important I think to use gksudo to start gui apps these days - I think that changes some gnome config to try and avoid it breaking configs
<stilofromfr> okay , tbh I used root to be quicker , I didnt cared about system stability and security , I don't deal with anything sensitive and format very often. But , I may start to think about it as i need to make a cleaner use of linux , to install a stable sdk environment etc , and here im trying to reinstall adb to access a bricked phone ( no touchscreen response) , Thanks for the informations you gave me about su and sudo. :)
<soreau> penguin42: I guess it depends on the app, it's just a good practice to always run as user unless you need to do some system configuration or other important task
<soreau> stilofromfr: For instance, you can install whatever app to $HOME/foo/ and still run $HOME/foo/bin/bar as root if you need to
<penguin42> soreau: Oh I agree, I mean if you've broken that rule and are going to run a gui app as root then use gksudo not sudo
<soreau> many times doing things like accessing the internals of a phone requires elevated privileges
<stilofromfr> <soreau> Thanks I was dealing with this tuto stating I should install it there , as its an important package I wanted to follow direction but I'm gonna execute from somewhere else then ,without problem?
<stilofromfr> I just need to go on adb and launch the reboot-recovery.sh , if you can shortcut me there  ...
<soreau> stilofromfr: To clarify, you can build and install just about anything as user to a directory owned by your user, and still use the resulting binaries as root
<soreau> stilofromfr: What is adb?
<stilofromfr> thanks
<stilofromfr> android debug bridge
<stilofromfr> allow you to acces your android device from pc and do whatever
<soreau> then use it :)
<soreau> what's the problem?
<penguin42> stilofromfr: Right, and once you've set up a udev rule for adb you don't need to run it as root later
<stilofromfr> they told me to put it in /bin , and i couldnt because i wasnt root  :) but im gonna try now
<stilofromfr> Thanks penguin , can you maybe give me a few  directions on this ?
<penguin42> stilofromfr: It's been a while since I did it
<soreau> udev is hard :P
<soreau> stilofromfr: so are you building adb or.. can you just link me to the tutorial you're looking at?
<czajkowski> popey: are you some sort of horder!
<penguin42> stilofromfr: http://wiki.cyanogenmod.com/wiki/Udev
<stilofromfr> Oh its okay :) I m' supposed to learn and not getting shortcut , I remember finding the unlock code for samsung was pretty easy
<popey> yes, i am czajkowski and I am trying not to be
<czajkowski> popey: so are you putting all the stuff in the loft out of eyes :)
<czajkowski> my mum is the same
<popey> loft or bin
<penguin42> stilofromfr: Those rules basically say 'for this USB device make a device entry for it and make it available to a given user'
<czajkowski> we have nearly a 2nd home up there always a spare kettle or pans
<stilofromfr> I'm finding the tuto
<popey> mine is mostly just old computers
<stilofromfr> http://droidweb.com/2009/12/controlling-your-android-device-via-adb-and-a-usb-connection/
<andylockran> exit
<stilofromfr> http://theunlockr.com/2011/04/12/how-to-connect-to-your-android-device-through-adb-wirelessly/ that one is better , I think
<soreau> stilofromfr: it even has some mention of udev stuff there
<stilofromfr> actually yes the first one is about udev , im reading it
<soreau> stilofromfr: but it doesn't say where you're getting adb from
<stilofromfr> it was from another tut , just a sec..
<stilofromfr> a&ctually : http://developer.android.com/sdk/index.html
<soreau> stilofromfr: so you configured and built adb already?
<stilofromfr> no I was reading tuts and starting getting fils when I encoutered the root permission (fake)"issue"
<stilofromfr> http://forum.frandroid.com/topic/44240-tuto-acces-complet-au-systeme-de-fichiers-modifier-ce-que-lon-veut/ that one is from a french forum
<stilofromfr> <soreau>I dont know what you mean by building adb , I tend to think it's isntalled because I used the sdk in the android kitchen sdixda http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=633246
<stilofromfr> Im talking nonsense here , I'll jsut get more info thanks guys :)
<soreau> stilofromfr: This looks like the link you want to follow https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AndroidSDK
<stilofromfr> http://www.gilawnews.com/astuces/comment-installer-android-debug-bridge-adb-sur-linux/ thanks Soreau , also here is the first link I followed which told me to install it in usr/bin
<soreau> stilofromfr: That doesn't appear to be good advice IMHO
<stilofromfr> the gilanews web? yes but as you told me here the install folder isnt important so I better not use a rooted one , and root the execution as u told me
<soreau> stilofromfr: The ubuntu.com guide seems to be very detailed and covers everything you need to be able to use adb as user
<soreau> stilofromfr: FWIW, when you see $ cmd that means cmd is ran as user. # cmd means command run as root
<stilofromfr> Thanks I already noticed that , I'm not THAT new but thanks for the reminder :)
<stilofromfr> I'll follow that guide , the most important thing I learned here was the udev setting , I have to go for 20 min but Ill come back , and from what I understood the "udev" thing allow your computer to detect the device ? act like driver?
<marxjohnson> Where should one report bugs against the Update Manager/Software Updater? Launchpad doesn't seem to let you
<soreau> stilofromfr: no, it sets permissions on device nodes AFAIU
<penguin42> marxjohnson: Just run  ubuntu-bug update-manager
<stilofromfr> "device nodes AFAIU" ??
<marxjohnson> penguin42: Thanks!
<soreau> stilofromfr: device nodes are files you see in /dev/
<soreau> stilofromfr: AFAIU is an acronym for As Far As I Understand
<soreau> stilofromfr: For instance when you plug in a usb device, you can run dmesg|tail and see the device node (file) it created
<ali1234> reporting bugs against update manager is rather difficult, because when it fails it is always during an update. which means when it fails your system is by definition not up to date. and apport won't let you report bugs on a system that is not up to date
<soreau> stilofromfr: but the file might not be created with the right permissions you want without udev rules
<stilofromfr> Oh thank you very much
<ali1234> so "ubuntu-bug update-manager" is pretty much guaranteed to not work
<soreau> ali1234: ha, nice
<soreau> ubuntu does have certain ways of stifling bug reports ;)
<stilofromfr> I'm looking into this udev rules , I will have to come back on this later , after I installed the sdk correctly , I might want to wipe my ubuntu , as I installed an android kitchens etc :/ I 'll have a clean start thanks Soreau,Cya :)
<marxjohnson> It's not failed to update, it's an interface/UX issue, so it thanfully it works in this case
<marxjohnson> thankfully*
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: I have recently made a submission to "Rate my spice rack" :-)
<christel> i look forward to investigating your rack TheOpenSourcerer!
<Laney> giggidy
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-D
<TheOpenSourcerer> christel: A sneak preview: https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/104060033182234025482/albums/5781381115748169985
<penguin42> heck
<TheOpenSourcerer> https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/104060033182234025482/albums/5781381898562345793
<penguin42> you don't do mild then?
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol - not often.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I bought some stonking chilli pods yesterday from the West Dean Chilli Fiesta: Dorest Nagas, Trinidad Scorpion Mouraga (current world record holder) and a new variety "Brain Strain". All are insanely hot ~1m SHU
<TheOpenSourcerer> s/Dorset
<TheOpenSourcerer> If you are interested penguin42 here are some pics of the West Dean Chilli Fiesta: https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/104060033182234025482/albums/5781379500444308961
<penguin42> yeh just noticed them on your profile; I'm not a spicy penguin; about as far I go is a spot of cinnamon on my apples
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<christel> TheOpenSourcerer: nice rack! ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> thanks christel
<christel> i am procrastinating, i really should try pack my suitcases and get ready to return home
<christel> not looking forward to travelling!
<TheOpenSourcerer> christel: When ar you coming back then?
<AlanBell> http://ratemyspicerack.com/opensourcerer/
<TheOpenSourcerer> Thanks AlanBell
<AlanBell> nice rack
<popey> hey directhex what dis mean? http://paste.ubuntu.com/1170181/
<directhex> popey, it means the application is a .NET 2.0 app, but one of the libraries it's loading gtk-sharp) wants types not found in .NET 2.0 - it's a consequence of running 2.0 apps unmodified on ubuntu 11.10+, where the only supported version of .net is 4.0
<directhex> you can force it by passing the --runtime=v4.0 flag to mono
<popey> how?
<popey> ahh, it's a shell script
 * popey rummages
<popey> yay, it starts, thanks
<popey> pfft, doesn't work,
<popey> removed
<AlanBell> I suspect few people other than perhaps popey will be able to beat TheOpenSourcerer's rack
<TheOpenSourcerer> Certainly for quantity - but for layout and access I fail miserably. My wife moved all my stuff from a revolving 2 tier carousel jobby in the corner cupboard into these boxes. I hate them in the boxes...
<directhex> popey, yeah, looks broken. maybe trying to use HAL or somesuch other deprecated things
<christel> TheOpenSourcerer: i touch down at 11:50 tomorrow
<christel> the flight is only 2 hours, however, i am currently 492 km north of the airport! ;)
<christel> so i shall leave around midnight tonight (well, 11ish your time)
<mgdm> christel: are you OMG NORTH right now, then? :)
<christel> nah not very north, i'm at the arctic circle :)
<mgdm> that's fairly north
<christel> OMG north is another 1,192 km further north ;)
<christel> (norway is such a silly long country)
<mgdm> I was giving someone abuse recently because he was organising a conference in Toronto called 'True North PHP', but he's only at about 43 degrees
<mgdm> I'm at 55, and used to live at 58 :)
<christel> hehe
<Dave2> Surely anything involving PHP is worthy of abuse
<mgdm> I was waiting for that
<popey> bah!
<popey> someone near me has lit a bbq
<popey> smells yum
<christel> nom
<daubers> popey: Light one back, just to spite them....
<jacobw> evening
<Dave2> I had to cycle through barbecue smell on my bike ride earlier.
<Dave2> I was about 2 hours into it. I did not want barbecue smell.
<christel> hehe
<Dave2> Speaking of which, I should make some food. *disappears*
<stilofromfr> Hi again everyone  , A noob question that will save me useless googling :How to run a batch script ... the first time i encouter one
<jacobw> sh foo.sh
<stilofromfr> thanks
<stilofromfr> ....mhhhh is .bat only in windows?
<AlanBell> yeah, same kind of thing though
<jacobw> bin is in the $PATH environment variable, which tells the shell which directories to search for executables, /bin/sh is a link to system's shell which interprets shell scripts
<jacobw> a shell script can have any extension, it just needs to be executable
<stilofromfr> thanks again , so I guess the text I paste here is the result of my script that run "correctly " ? :extract_image.bat: 1: extract_image.bat: @echo: not found extract_image.bat: 2: extract_image.bat: SETLOCAL: not found Cleaning extract directory rmdir: Ã©chec de suppression de Â«/SÂ»: Aucun fichier ou dossier de ce type rmdir: Ã©chec de suppression de Â«/QÂ»: Aucun fichier ou dossier de ce type rmdir: Ã©chec de suppression de 
<jacobw> !paste
<lubotu3> Pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://pastebin.ubuntu-uk.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<AlanBell> stilofromfr: go back several steps, what is it, where did you get it from?
<jacobw> paste what your trying to run the psatebin and it'll be obvious if it's a bash script or not
<jacobw> bash is the default shell on most linux distributions
<stilofromfr> My bad jacobw, Sry AlanBell I didnt understood you question, I'm trying to run a script ending in .bat under ubuntu 12 I got the message posted above as a result of sh image_extract.bat
<stilofromfr> r*
<stilofromfr> Thanks again for the information Jacobw I now know I can run .bat under linux.
<AlanBell> stilofromfr: what script? why are you trying to run it? where did it come from?
<AlanBell> why do you think it is a Linux script?
<jacobw> open up the .bat and paste it to paste.ubuntu.com
<stilofromfr> okay
<jacobw> it's mostly likely a windows batch script, which is for the windows cmd.exe or powershell, bash scripts are interpretted by bash which has it's own syntax
<stilofromfr> http://pastebin.com/Vvk3Jmm3 ,
<stilofromfr> comes from here http://www.techknow.t0xic.nl/forum/index.php?topic=1679.0
<stilofromfr> btw pastebin.ubuntu land on the homepage i think
<AlanBell> popey: this is true, http://pastebin.ubuntu-uk.org is broken, should it work?
<mattt_> evening
<christel> lo mattt :)
<mattt> howzit christel?
 * mattt is back from shopping in swindon :(
<christel> not at all bad!
<christel> shopping in swindon! i say
<mattt> the outlet mall's not bad, all things considered
<mattt> but i'd rather have been at home watching sports :P
<stilofromfr> Alan Bell Did you look at the script ?
<AlanBell> stilofromfr: I did have a quick look, it is fairly clear what it is trying to do, I would just do the individual steps
<AlanBell> I will download the file and see what is in it
<stilofromfr> Yes , It may sound clean to you , could you help me discern the steps there?
<stilofromfr> clear*
<AlanBell> heh, just read the echo lines
<stilofromfr> Yes I know but the overall thing look rather obscure ,
<stilofromfr> the whole package should be intented to extract the date inside a .img file , which is used by a few allwinner tablet manufacturer to pack their rom , I need to unpack and cook it my way
<stilofromfr> data and not date , apologies for bad english
<stilofromfr> the goal of all that is to avoid using android mods , and make a clean french stock rom
<AlanBell> so I download a10_flash_kitchen_v2.zip, then run "unzip a10_flash_kitchen_v2.zip"
<AlanBell> that gives me a packer_gb and packer_ics directory
<stilofromfr> then you extract those two file in a dir
<stilofromfr> http://www.techknow.t0xic.nl/forum/index.php?topic=1679.0 Here is the whole tuto
<stilofromfr> you will also need a livesuite.img , you can download a rom on onda website, but you really want to try and do the whole thing? don't bother , I would be happy with a few explanations
<stilofromfr> http://www.onda-tablet.com/download/ here you have all my resources , I used the 4.0.3 Onda VI30 Deluxe (V1)  Android 4.0_v0.8 Firmware   http://file2.mydrivers.com/ondata/download/driver/oamp3/Vi30P/Vi30P_V1V2_Android4.0.3-0.8.rar
<AlanBell> ok, so that is a windows batch file, it first removes the _extract directory probably (rmdir /S /Q _extract) dunno what /S and /Q are, but probably just delete it
<AlanBell> then it runs imagesuite\unimg -d original.img
<AlanBell> that line will be a problme
<AlanBell> problem
<stilofromfr> All right so launching all these tool in windows would be more appropriate? because the livesuite software is only for windows
<AlanBell> because the imagesuite/unimg thing will be a windows executable
<AlanBell> it *might* run under wine
<stilofromfr> great
<AlanBell> then it renames a directory
<AlanBell> then it renames a bunch of files
<stilofromfr> I won't bother doing this , virtualization isnt my cup of tea ,plus I have a windows on hand
<stilofromfr> I tried to launch league of legend with wine , wasted 3 days of my life.
<stilofromfr> Anyway Thanks Alan , Im gonna go try and come back to tell you , but it seems long enough for me :) Thanks for the infos Cya !
<AlanBell> o/
<HardDriveIssues> Hello everyone i bought this hard drive (WD Caviar Blue 1 TB SATA Hard Drives ( WD10EZEX)(sata3)) pluged it in a sata2 controller searched for solutions but didn't find anything. My os is ubuntu 11.04. So trying to first time install the 1tb hdd and shows only 33mb of space. I checked in bios the same... in ubuntu same... i even tryied with a windows 7 disk... what is going wrong about 1 month ago i had installed 1tb hdd a
<penguin42> HardDriveIssues: How old is the controller? Is it onboard or a card?
<HardDriveIssues> onboard
<HardDriveIssues> my motherboard is gigabyte ga-945gm-s2
<HardDriveIssues> i was told and i found around the internet that sata3 hdds can run on sta2 controller
<HardDriveIssues> but not in sata3 speeds
<penguin42> yeh that's right
<HardDriveIssues> it seems like the drive isn't formated
<AlanBell> bios should report the right size though
<penguin42> HardDriveIssues: formatting isn't really an issue these days
<penguin42> HardDriveIssues: If you can boot an ubuntu livecd, and get the output of dmesg and/or cat /proc/partitions to a pastebin we could see if there is anything that says what's going on
<HardDriveIssues> right now i have a 320gb hard drive in ubuntu
<HardDriveIssues> this is the pc i am speaking right now
<penguin42> HardDriveIssues: Yeh, well only way to figure out is to boot with that drive in and get some info - we can't use telepathy to figure it out!
<AlanBell> so the second one is plugged in now?
<AlanBell> try running this command
<HardDriveIssues> yeah it is pluged in
<penguin42> ah ok
<AlanBell> sudo fdisk -l /dev/sdb
<AlanBell> and copy and paste the results to http://paste.ubuntu.com/ and tell us the URL it gives you after you hit the paste button
<penguin42> HardDriveIssues: One thing I can think is worth checking in the BIOS, just check it's not set on manual rather than autodetect for the drive type; it's very rare, so I doubt it - but it might be worth checking
<HardDriveIssues> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1170399/
<penguin42> wow
 * AlanBell wonders if that is something else
<penguin42> HardDriveIssues: Can you paste the output of dmesg into the pastebin?
<HardDriveIssues> one moment please
<HardDriveIssues> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1170402/
<AlanBell> gosh.
<penguin42> 4kb block issue
<penguin42> ?
<penguin42> HardDriveIssues: Can you quickly go and check the BIOS to see if it has a manual drive size setting; it's worth the check!
<AlanBell> looks broken to me :(
<HardDriveIssues> i bought it today how might be brokeeen? :(
<penguin42> AlanBell: I can't see how a broken one would fail like that?
<AlanBell> a 1tb drive shouldn't be sufficiently exotic to do anything other than just work
<HardDriveIssues> i have a bricked-burned-destroyed 1tb drive and still says its 1tb in ubuntu
<HardDriveIssues> but it cant mount-install os or anything else
<penguin42> HardDriveIssues: Is that still 11.04
<HardDriveIssues> i didn't reboot yet
<HardDriveIssues> in what section is the manual drive size in bios
<penguin42> HardDriveIssues: Which OS version is that dmesg from?
<HardDriveIssues> ?
<HardDriveIssues> ubuntu 11.04
<HardDriveIssues> 2.6.38-15-generic
<HardDriveIssues> kernel
<penguin42> HardDriveIssues: The manual size stuff is normally under the options where it shows you the drives, first page or two; but my other thought is that the kernel is too old/doesn't like the 4KB block size that drive is using, so if the bios option isn't there it's worth trying a new Ubuntu
<AlanBell> well if the bios reports it as 33mb I suspect it is game over
<HardDriveIssues> well this is why i tryied a windows 7 install dvd
<HardDriveIssues> with pluged in only the 1tb hdd
<penguin42> HardDriveIssues: If it doesn't work with win7 either then I guess the options are 1) Bios fixed size problem 2) BIOS just doesn't like 4kb blocks
<HardDriveIssues> but i had an 1tb drive what changed?
<HardDriveIssues> may i paste a link here? or it is spam or sth?
<penguin42> link ok
<penguin42> HardDriveIssues: Possible the other drive wasn't using 4KB blocks
<HardDriveIssues> http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/245972-14-solved-hd103uj-appears-32mb-drive
<HardDriveIssues> i thought to update bios but gigabyte gives me an exe
 * bigcalm swan dives into the channel
 * christel gets out of the way
<penguin42> HardDriveIssues: Some of those can be updated other ways - like DOS boot floppies etc
<HardDriveIssues> my pc dont have floppie :D :S
<HardDriveIssues> doesnt*
<penguin42> HardDriveIssues: ok ok, usb floppy image
<HardDriveIssues> can i have any help with that? i have the exe i have a usb stick
<HardDriveIssues> i also have a laptop so you can hang out with me as i am trying to destroy me computer
<HardDriveIssues> my*
 * penguin42 has to go in a few mins
<penguin42> HardDriveIssues: Might also want to try http://support.wdc.com/product/download.asp?groupid=606&lang=en   (or the appropriate version for your drive)
<HDDIssues> i am trying the cd penguin42 from western digital site
<penguin42> HDDIssues: Good luck; it's a weird one that!  I'd see if I could try it in another PC and see if it also said it was 33MB
<HDDIssues> it says drive not supported i cant understand :/
<penguin42> bah
<penguin42> HDDIssues: OK, only thing I can suggest is to try on another PC
<penguin42> HDDIssues: If the BIOS, Win7 and Ubuntu all agree that it's the wrong size then there's not much else to suggest
<HDDIssues> can you guide me to bios
<HDDIssues> any jumper ? :/// whats the 4kb blocks?
<penguin42> HDDIssues: I can't see any notes on a jumper on your drive model
<penguin42> HDDIssues: Newer drives use 4KB blocks on the drive, older ones use 512byte; some BIOSs don't understand the 4KB - Linux *should* be OK these days
<HDDIssues> ok so we speak about a bios update
 * penguin42 has to go!
<penguin42> HDDIssues: Best of luck
<HDDIssues> anyone can help to update bios
<HDDIssues> thanks for your time penguin
<SuperMatt> it occurs to me how awesome linux is considering I've just been sitting on my sofa, installing linux on a laptop while using said laptop to make further changes to my desktop pc
<bigcalm> mgdm: apart from yourself, whom am I likely to know at phpnw?
<mgdm> bigcalm: Lorna, now :) There'll be some names you'll recognise, too
<bigcalm> mgdm: chosen your hotel yet? I'm considering the pricier one just because I hate walking any distance with a skin full ;)
<bigcalm> And whom do I blame for this bloody cold?
<bigcalm> Every year I get one. Will have to factor in a week's recovery time in the future
<popey> I am pondering taking sophie camping next weekend
<popey> we put the tent up today as a test
<popey> (it's not been used for ~14 years)
<mgdm> bigcalm: no, not yet
<mgdm> bigcalm: was going to tomorrow
<bigcalm> popey: camping in the garden?
<popey> its setup in the garden, yes
<popey> handy it rained
<bigcalm> Spend the night in the garden, see if she is up for it or not
<bigcalm> Not Sam's thing?
<popey> bigcalm, chatted with wifey, she thinks I should take them both
<popey> so i think i will
<bigcalm> Cool :)
<popey> just need to find a campsite now
<bigcalm> How far do you intend to go?
<popey> no more than an hour, hour and a bit
<popey> so probably anywhere from Bournemouth to Eastbourne
<popey> Sophie has ballet class on Saturday lunchtime so i would have to go after that
<MartijnVdS> popey: We went camping near Stockbridge once with my dad.. it was a cool week :)
<popey> excellent, I'm hoping they have happy memories
<popey> might need to borrow some camping kit from a friend
<popey> only got a tent :)
<bigcalm> Things I remember from camping holidays were fried egg sandwiches for breakfast, tinned curry and boil in the bag rice for tea, victoria sponge if we'd been good
<popey> :)
<popey> camping friendly food is indeed wise
<popey> hmm, twitter and facebook are both broken for me tonight
<popey> can't upload photos to either
<popey> oh, finally went to fb
<bigcalm> popey: I see a double post on fb
<popey> ta
<bigcalm> popey: as noted on g+, it does look slightly dodgy :)
<popey> meh
<bigcalm> But we are terrible people
<shauno> plugged an SD card into 12.04 .. silly question, but how do I find it?
<bigcalm> shauno: if it's auto mounted, it'll be in /media
<shauno> doesn't appear to be mounted.  I can't find any devices matching it either
<bigcalm> What does mount tell you from the cli?
<bigcalm> Is there anything in dmesg?
<bigcalm> Or maybe syslog?
<arsen> erp, facebook / twitter being dodgy through AA, seems forcing google/level3 dns fixed it :/
<shauno> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1170655/   sees the reader (elcheapo usb, served me well for years though), but no sign of the card itself
<shauno> (yes I'm aware file's not the prettiest way of finding filesystems, but it's surprisingly effective)
<shauno> ah, nevermind.  appears my reader's too old for sdhc; an old 1GB card works fine
<bigcalm> \o/
<shauno> still stranded trying to grow my pi's rootfs, but at least it makes sense now
<dwatkins> I thought it was automatic now, shauno.
<shauno> the raspmc image I've got did, adafruit's didn't
<dwatkins> The raspbian install I tried a couple weeks ago had it as a menu option and it applied the changes the next time I rebooted. There's a youtube video with the details.
<dwatkins> ah ok, not tried theirs yet.
<shauno> I like adafruit's because they have avahi running out of the box, so I can actually find the thing on the network
<dwatkins> ah yes, handy
<dwatkins> I tend to set its MAC address in my DHCP config so I can just refer to it as 'pi'
<n1md4> Does anyone know how to kill/close 1 rouge irssi window?
<dwatkins> n1md4: /wc (i.e. window close)
<n1md4> dwatkins: that did it, thanks :)
<dwatkins> :)
#ubuntu-uk 2012-08-28
<christel> rawr
<diplo> Morning all
<christel> lo diplo
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<diplo> Morning christel / brobostigon : Good weekends ?
<brobostigon> morning diplo
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning all.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Who wants to rate my rack? http://ratemyspicerack.com/opensourcerer/
<popey> morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> lo popey
<brobostigon> morning TheOpenSourcerer and popey
<TheOpenSourcerer> how's it going brobostigon?
<brobostigon> TheOpenSourcerer: not so hot. and you?
<TheOpenSourcerer> I'm good thanks. Had a great - and very hot - weekend (West Dean Chilli Fiesta).
<brobostigon> :)
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm :)
<popey> http://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/blackberry-playbook-tablet-pc-64-gb-129-currys-1294090 cheap tab...
<Oli> popey: Yeah I'm trying to weigh it up against a nexus 7
<TheOpenSourcerer> Think the Playbook is a dead duck imho
<brobostigon> qnx is as smooth as a baby bottom though. and quite stable.
<popey> so would android be with zero apps
<Oli> The thing swaying me towards a N7 is that I have an Android phone with a couple of dozen paid apps that would benefit from being run on a tablet.
<Oli> But if I only wanted something to wheel around a ton of media, the Playbook would win hands down.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I have a customer that bought into the Playbook and regretted it ever since.
<Oli> Well you would if you paid full price before BB went postal on it.
<TheOpenSourcerer> yeah quite.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Same with the HP TP.
<Oli> Same with the HP WebOS stu.... beat me to it :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
 * TheOpenSourcerer has a TP
<TheOpenSourcerer> But it only cost Â£100
<TheOpenSourcerer> WebOS is actually quite nice to use but as popey said with no apps it's not terribly useful.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I got a free Galaxy Tab 10.1 with my S3 and that is used all the time now.
<diplo> Blimey, a free tablet with a phone.. not a bad deal
<diplo> :)
<Oli> Yeah, I had a N900. I'm familiar with the Good-OSâAwful-Support model.
<Oli> *have. I have a N900. Not used for anything more than an in-car iPod these days.
<TheOpenSourcerer> diplo: It was a great deal. the first 1000 customers with CPW for the S3 when it launched.
<Oli> How much did you end up paying for the S3 though?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Â£36/m
<Oli> I'll give you a free datacenter if you pay me a few billion pounds for a laptop.
<mattt> i'd like one of the 7" tabs
 * popey hugs ipad
<diplo> mattt: The Nexus 7 ?
<Oli> popey: Get that filth out of here.
<popey> :)
<mattt> diplo: no, samsung :)
<mattt> i'd happily take the nexus too tho
<diplo> I was going to ask in here later when it got busy what tabs people had
<Oli> I don't really understand the allure of the SGTs. They're ancient, expensive and don't use the same screen tech as the phones do.
<diplo> I don't have a lot of money and the Nexus 7 is really tempting, but don't know anyone who has one yet
 * brobostigon hugs his nexus7.
<TheOpenSourcerer> diplo: Plenty of peeps on Twitter.
 * AlanBell wonders how well the playbook plays with Ubuntu for music transfer stuff
<oimon> i've already seen more nexus 7s than i've seen ipads
<diplo> yeah just people I feel I 'know' a bit better i guess
<mattt> diplo: same
<mattt> diplo: only thing i'm concerned with is ending up with something inferior (and useless) like a netbook
<oimon> maybe the price made it an impulse purcahse for many
<TheOpenSourcerer> any piece of "gadget" tech will be obsolete in a couple of years.
<oimon> or quicker if lots of people on here have it (eee pc, joggler, rasp pi )
<TheOpenSourcerer> yeah.
<diplo> As long as it works well I'm fine, then it's the decision of 8/16GB :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's just a question of "preparing" yourself for the short lifespan of your shiny new toy.
<popey> yay, sophie has no ballet on saturday so i can go camping earlier in the day
 * TheOpenSourcerer is off to Swansea for a golf and drinking weekend on Fri :-)
<popey> i may go to swanage
<christel>    
<christel> hi
<czajkowski> popey: find a place to go camping with the kids
<TheOpenSourcerer> There is a very nice camp site not too far away - stayed there a few years ago... http://www.theinsidepark.co.uk/
<TheOpenSourcerer> Near Blandford
<christel>   
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :)
<popey> czajkowski, i am
<TheOpenSourcerer> gunzip
<TheOpenSourcerer> ooops
 * popey decompresses all over the channel
<TheOpenSourcerer> ewww.
<daubers> TheOpenSourcerer: Up in Mumbles?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Huh daubers
<TheOpenSourcerer> ?
<daubers> TheOpenSourcerer: The golfing thing :)
<daubers> The only golf course near swansea I know of is on the Gower
<daubers> (very nice area the Gower, and Mumbles. Swansea itself is a bit of a concrete disaster)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oh - Dunno. Hang on. Checking email from aorganiser
<diplo> daubers: Was there myself a few weeks ago
<diplo> Very nice
<daubers> TheOpenSourcerer: If you end up in Mumbles, go to Verdi's for ice cream. Best. Ice. Cream. Ever.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Pennard GC, Gower G.C, Langland Bay GC
<daubers> Yep, all on the Gower :)
<daubers> Langland Bay is really nice. Normally full of surfers and kite surfers
<TheOpenSourcerer> Cool.
 * daubers spent many days he should have been in lectures on the various beaches around the Gower
<AlanBell> I have been to the gower. Worst holiday evar.
<AlanBell> not the fault of the place as such (apart from the dire mobile reception)
<daubers> heh, they didn't really have mobiles in the 70's you know
<BigRedS> Anyone know of a cloudyâ¢ service that'll slave MySQL as a sort of backup/dr thingy? So I'd set up mysql rep to it and they'd take regular dumps or do whatever's necessary to give the illusion of a robust backup?
<AlanBell> verdi's is certainly the place for ice cream
<BigRedS> Obvious solution is a VPS with MySQL on it, but I'm wondering how little of this can be my problem :)
<diplo> BigRedS: I'd say the same thing about VPS, with our customer sites I rsync data nad mysqldump out mysql to a local work server daily
<diplo> But haven't set up replication of any sort yet
<AlanBell> BigRedS: I think mysql replication is pull replication, which means they have to be able to connect to the master, not the other way round
<BigRedS> AlanBell: yeah
<BigRedS> but that'd be work-roundable.
<AlanBell> I looked at it a while back, but ended up throwing mysql dump files outbound rather than have an inbound connection
 * BigRedS ponders starting a cloudy mysql backup service based on replicating other people's dbs for them
 * AlanBell ponders same. With Galcier as a back end
<BigRedS> Haha, is that any good?
<BigRedS> I did a bunch of stuff with EC2 about a year ago and the thing that made me leave was the atrocious I/O
<AlanBell> Glacier, Amazon's new store stuff forever service.
<BigRedS> Oh, yeah, that one
<BigRedS> I was thinking about the new fast-I/O thing
<TheOpenSourcerer> hmm - http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Ubuntu-to-drop-alternate-installer-1676906.html
<TheOpenSourcerer> Could be interesting. The Alternate is often very useful when trying to install on systems with dodgy graphics or other non-standard h/w that the standard installer fails to recognise correctly.
<brobostigon> interesting move, yes.
<BigRedS> what? That's a dumb idea
<jussi> TheOpenSourcerer: but the netboot has the same properties, no ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> dunno jussi - not used that one. I find the Alternate very useful. Never needed netboot iirc
<Oli> I wish they'd just make bigger discs for things. A 60cm diameter, dual-layer BluRay disk would store 1.4TB.
<jussi> yeah, I read the thread in question here, and it seems netboot was the way to do it then.
<AlanBell> well if there isn't an alternate, then maybe the standard installer will be improved to work on such systems
<AlanBell> server CD will also work fine, then install ubuntu-desktop
<jussi> true that
<jussi> or they could just introduce tasksel on the server cd (if it isnt there already and have the desktop as one of those options)
<jussi> like the ubuntu studio cd's used to have.
<Oli> It's the offline low-end installs (which I gather are fairly frequent in developing countries) that are going to get hit by something like that.
<Oli> They'd need to ship a separate repo-on-cd around with the desktop stuff on. Possible but harder than the current install process.
<jussi> Oli: yeah, thats true enough
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, er, no alternate installer means no net install means no more ubuntu in the office
<davmor2> Morning all
<jussi> davmor2: !
<jussi> davmor2: I see you were credited twice in the Diaspora thankyou list :D
<jussi> (I assume it is you and you dont have a double...)
<czajkowski> one of davmor2 is more than enough
<directhex> huh, kubuntu etc will still offer D-I
<jussi> hehe
<arsen> having a problem with NIS/NFS, when trying to chown an existing file on NFS(v4) share to a NIS user:group, it instead changes it to nobody:nobody :/ anyone seen this?
<davmor2> jussi: I'm not even on it
<jussi> oh LOL
<jussi> lemme find the email - PM your email addy :D
<arsen> having a problem with NIS/NFS, when trying to chown an existing file on NFS(v4) share to a NIS user:group, it instead changes it to nobody:nobody :/ anyone seen this?
<popey> directhex, net installer isn't being ditched
<popey> the 'mini' iso
<davmor2> jussi: I made a post on g+ thanking everyone who makes oggcamp rock even though I wasn't there, that might of been passed on by members of dis
<directhex> popey, so pxeboot with d-i will still be offered?
<popey> we d-i isnt going away
<popey> just the big fat alternate cd
<arsen> eugh silly irssi.
<arsen> having a problem with NIS/NFS, when trying to chown an existing file on NFS(v4) share to a NIS user:group, it instead changes it to nobody:nobody :/ anyone seen this?
<dwatkins> arsen: does the user and group exist with the same IDs on both systems?
<BigRedS> diplo: exactly.
<arsen> well it does via NFS, dwatkins
<arsen> er, NIS, sorry.
<dwatkins> arsen: and both systems allow local files to have ownership set like this?
<dwatkins> i.e. they identify correctly
<arsen> yeah
<arsen> just tested
<dwatkins> hmm, non-matching UID/GID are the only thing I can think of in this situation, arsen - unless you have options set on the filesystem in /etc/exports on the server to specify UID/GID explicitly.
<arsen> hm thats what i was thinking about unmatched uid/gid, but as they're both authing successfully through NIS id of assumed that works
<davmor2> directhex: the mini.iso isn't going away
<dwatkins> arsen: I assume you're checking the files with 'ls -n'
<dwatkins> i.e. to show numerical UID/GID
<arsen> when yuo say checking, im reading them from locally and remote via nfs - both share the same numerical id's yeah.
<arsen> but the uid matches nobody:nobody on the nfs server
<dwatkins> so the NFS server isn't respecting the UID you're setting. I'd check its options in /etc/exports and the daemon options too.
<arsen> yeah strange (it works for 20+ other clients)
<dwatkins> What's different about this one, then?
<arsen> :)
<dwatkins> is it definitely joined to NIS properly, for one thing?
<arsen> yeah, logged in successfuly with a NIS user, nis works fine on local stuff
<arsen> typically when nis isnt configured i find it will list lal files as nobody:nobody, until you set NIS a higher priority in nsswitch.conf
<arsen> so following that being fixed, it pulls permissions correctly, its now just a problem when trying to apply permissions
<dwatkins> it shows the correct NIS master as well, I assume.
<arsen> yeha.
<dwatkins> I'm stumped. Have you asked on #ubuntu?
<arsen> not yet, i will do shortly
<arsen> a cup of tea might solve this.
<dwatkins> tea++
<dwatkins> Did you switch it off then on again? ;)
<arsen> yeah a few times :<
<dwatkins> yeah, that's not really a solution to most of my problems either
<arsen> i even sporadically restarted random services
 * daubers hates writing documentation
<oimon> i enjoy it daubers, but only on fridays
<oimon> i need a live iso with KDE4.9 on it - anyone suggest anything?
<Mez> Signup for Coventry Global Jam is up ... http://ugj-cov.eventbrite.co.uk/
<popey> gord, did you pay for sublime?
<popey> also, do you have it in your launcher etc?
<gord> popey, nope and don't use it. tried to get in to it but i always go back to vim
<gord> more to do with my lazyness than a comment on the software really
<Monotoko> evenin' all
<Lorra> hi
<popey> heh
<extrasolar> How do you like your toast in the morning?
<`Cat`> burnt beyond recognition
<extrasolar> I like mine with a hug
<extrasolar> Dark or light the worlds alright as long as I get my hug
<`Cat`> =)
<MartijnVdS> Burned?
<extrasolar> lol burned
<extrasolar> is that a word now?
 * davmor2 is currently enjoying placebos rendition of running up that hill (Kate Bush classic)
<extrasolar> I like pure morning, good song
<popey> oooooookay
<MartijnVdS> evening popey
<popey> pip pip
<davmor2> popey: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKkaLM9NcSo it's nice
<davmor2> popey: it's kinda eerie and a bit edgy and yet mellow at the same time
<popey> she scares me
<davmor2> popey: Kate Bush or Placebo
<davmor2> popey: or czajkowski or christel
<MartijnVdS> popey: if you really want to be scared, http://www.youtube.com/user/wzr0713
<christel> davmor2: are you saying i am scary? :o
<MartijnVdS> christel: is he wrong?
<christel> yes :(
<MartijnVdS> But how can we be sure?
<christel> spend a night with me in a haunted house and you'll see!
 * christel nods
 * MartijnVdS imagines http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOnqjkJTMaA
<davmor2> christel: you were one of the only She's that I knew could take a joke that was in hte channel to be honest :)  I think your a harmless little kitty cat myself and not at all scary :D  But then I've had years of beatings off czajkowski so I would :)
 * christel purrs sweetly
 * davmor2 remembers getting blagged by a cat like this before with claw marks most of the way down my arms :D
 * christel smirks
<Dave2> :o
 * TheOpenS1 is on IRC direct from Thunderbird 15 :-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hmm - seems to chop my username a bit ;-)
<davmor2> yeah but who needs usernames right
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hmm, not sure about Thunderbird's implementation. Not enough tweaking options... I want the timeline the other way round... I want to see all the tweet and not a truncated version of it (why is it doing that anyway?)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Makes me realise just how cool Hotot really is.
<christel> i parsed Hotot as "Hotornot"
<TheOpenS1> The IRC layout in TB is much better than for Twitter.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Then I guess it being written in XUL anyone can make a new theme for it... Interesting idea. Not sure how I like having all my conversation stuff in one app yet. Could be good or it be a PITA.
<davmor2> Okay I couldn't stay away you cheer me up to much now bring on the funny
<SuperEngineer> davmor2: for funny [& sense] - tune into the Ubuntu UK Podcast
<davmor2> Nah I'm on my phone here there is a limit to what I can do
<SuperEngineer> davmor2: :(
<christel> ah but you only need one hand to type!
<davmor2> Yeah the other is obviously holding the phone
 * christel nods
<AlanBell> any more people coming for a beer in Farnham? http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1906/detail/
<davmor2> Anyway people I'm off this works well :)
<christel> you scared him away!
<AlanBell> yes, I am very scary :(
<christel> yes, i know :(
<christel> i want icecream
 * bigcalm pounces
<AlanBell> like an Essex tiger
<bigcalm> Tiger?
<AlanBell> no, that was a lion wasn't it
<jacobw> lion
<bigcalm> So I hear
<AlanBell> tiggers pounce
<bigcalm> Well, they bounce
<bigcalm> This much we know
<AlanBell> the wonderful thing about tiggers is tiggers are wonderful things
<christel> BIGCLAM
<AlanBell> They're bouncy, trouncy, flouncy, pouncy Fun, fun, fun, fun, FUN!
<bigcalm> tee eye double guh uh
<bigcalm> christel!!!!!!!!one
<christel> but the most wonderful thing about tiggers is i am the only one! :P
<AlanBell> "They're loaded with vim and with vigor" not emacs !!!
<christel> haha
<bigcalm> There's only one christel
<bigcalm> Heh
<christel> (and they love to leap in your laps!)
<bigcalm> Tiggers or christels?
<christel> tiggers silly!
<bigcalm> I always felt sad for Tigger that he was the only one
<christel> christels dont leap :x
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> christel: welcome home my dear :)
<christel> THANK YOU DARLING THANK YOU
<christel> did you miss me? :D
<bigcalm> Always do. Who else is to keep the sanity around here?
<christel> you're the sweetest
 * bigcalm hugs his beer mug
<bigcalm> Dare I have a 2nd pint on a school night?
<AlanBell> one pint of vodka is probably enough
<bigcalm> AlanBell: aww, one for the road guvnor?
<AlanBell> oh go on then
<bigcalm> Working from home means the morning commute is hell
<dwatkins> Watch out for Lego on the floor, bigcalm.
<bigcalm> dwatkins: I haven't played with lego for a good 20 years :(
<bigcalm> Maybe I should do something about that
<dwatkins> bigcalm: ok, plugs then? ;)
<dwatkins> I have a Lego phone holder or four.
<bigcalm> Heh
<dwatkins> I built cases for my Raspberry Pi and Arduino out of Lego, too.
<SuperEngineer> me wantte: http://tinyurl.com/ubuntu-preloaded-keyboard
<bigcalm> Cute
<bigcalm> There's scope for a lot of hardware inside a keyboard case
<dwatkins> I think Commodore made a PC inna keyboard.
<mgdm> Indeed
<ali1234> it's been tried several times before
<ali1234> but nobody buys them because you can't fit any decent hardware in that form factor unless you are willing to pay macbook air prices
<ali1234> and anyone willing to do that just buys a macbook air
<dwatkins> I connected my IBM Model M to my Macbook this evening, it worked well now I have an adapter cable.
<dwatkins> It's like driving a tank, though.
<SuperEngineer> hmmm... someone seems unaware of possibilities here...
<bigcalm> Noisy keys of the world unite!
<dwatkins> bigcalm: yeah, I was discussing it with a colleague, he has clearly never been in a room with one
<dwatkins> possibilities, SuperEngineer?
<SuperEngineer> deliberate
<bigcalm> dwatkins: I ordered a Modle M clone from Unicomp in the States. Hayley hates it, I love it :D
<dwatkins> bigcalm: egg boxes on the walls ;)
<bigcalm> Unicomp is actually the company that made the Model M in the 1st place
<mgdm> I hate model Ms
<mgdm> I seem to be in the minority, here, but I find them horrible to type on, far too noisy, and painful to use
<mgdm> Give me a thinkpad keyboard, or at a stretch, a Mac one
<SuperEngineer> time for bed, said Zebedee ;)
<SuperEngineer> boiiiinnnnnnnnngggggggggggggg
<bigcalm> I really should book phpnw and a hotel
<bigcalm> I()->love()->chaining()->methods
<bigcalm> ()
<mgdm> just wait till you get 5.4
<bigcalm> Oh?
<mgdm> $you->can()->chain()['and']-dereference()->in()[1]; !
<bigcalm> Accessing returned arrays directly from the method call?! Yay. Something I miss from Perl
<bigcalm> Hazar. My code catches Exceptions sensibly at last
<bigcalm> Tomorrow shall be horribly unproductive as I have to write unit and functional tests
<bigcalm> Actually, I see the rest of the week being like that
<bigcalm> Who thought that testing would be a good idea?
<bigcalm> 2 pints of bitter say that I don't do testing now :D
#ubuntu-uk 2012-08-29
<diplo> Morning all
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: \o/ Perl ;)
<MartijnVdS> morning all
<diplo> Perl :*(
<brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS
<christel> good morning pretties
<diplo> Morning young ladie!
<diplo> lady*
<brobostigon> morning chrisccoulson
<brobostigon> morning christel
<brobostigon> sorry chrisccoulson
<christel> hello brobostigon \o/
<christel> and diplo :D
<christel> diplo: i love you (for calling me YOUNG)
<brobostigon> hello christel \o/
<diplo> :)
<christel> see, now i am in a cheerful mood! well done :D
<diplo> Going on my first proper date since splitting with my ex tonight
 * diplo is the very scared person.
 * diplo has never really ever 'dated'
<christel> oooh
<christel> exciting
<oimon> diplo, what you doing?  meal? drink?
<christel> tell me about her (the date) and what you guys are planning :)
<diplo> Drink
<diplo> I'm driving, so a singular drink so no help in the scared bit :)
<oimon> :S
<diplo> Just meeting up as friends to see if it's easier, I'm honestly petrified.. my heart hasn't stopped pounding since it was confirmed :)
<diplo> Just chat and get to know each other, she has 3 kids and from dating site seems we are on the same page on most things on what to do with life etc
<diplo> So I'm hoping it all just flows.
<diplo> Exactly what we both said when messaging each other
<diplo> Still doesn't make me feel any more confident, bit like meeting you guys
<diplo> :)
<popey> oimon, what's new in ff 15?
<Seeker`> as long as she doesn't look like popey in a bad wig, you'll be fine
<diplo> I *used* to be this really confident guy :/
<popey> O_O
<christel> aw! stop putting yourself down, you're funny and smart and kind of cute and we all enjoyed meeting you!
<popey> or even me in a good wig
<diplo> heh, well I've met popey but still not sure I'd like to see him in a wig :P
<popey> only on weekends
<oimon> popey, Mozilla says they have "now plugged the main cause of memory leaks in Firefox add-ons." Add-ons commonly hold extra copies of sites in memory when they don't need to, and the browser now has a mechanism to detect this and reclaim the memory. Another significant improvement is the addition of native support for compressed textures in WebGL, which is a boost for high-res 3D gaming
<popey> how you installing it?
<oimon> dist-upgrade
<popey> cool
 * popey dist-upgrades
<livingdaylight> guys, is there a social-networking site like diaspora, open-source, protect and honor our privacy but that can connect with other services such as Google- and fciabook. What I loathe is "lock-in" where, whether its skype [good example] users are locked-in to one app or service to access other users /friends using that particular app/service
<oimon> btw they are moving to silent update model, probably on other platforms though i guess
<popey> livingdaylight, no
<livingdaylight> shame, its what I'd love to see
<diplo> ta christel :)
<livingdaylight> I hate lock-in and having to join x or y service to communicate with people just coz they're on skype, fciabook or whatever
<diplo> It was great meeting you guys, really must do it more often but it's also a fair way to travel :)
<popey> meh
<christel> yeah, that was a bit of a trek! :)
<diplo> I don't mind driving, easier at the beginning of the month when I'm more flush with the cash though :D
<popey> is it cheaper on the train?
<popey> stupid question, of course it isnt
<diplo> heh yeah stupid question, I did look tbh and thought sod that
<czajkowski> ello ello
<diplo> I watch an old TopGear the other night, they bought a car and travelled from London to Manc and back incl fuel for less money than the train ticket
<diplo> It's ridiculous how much it costs now
<diplo> Hi czajkowski
<czajkowski> diplo: yes but it also depends on how you drive
<czajkowski> breaking changing gears reving etc
<czajkowski> c
 * diplo is getting older now, slow and steady!
<Seeker`> yeah, breaking is overrated. Should never do it.
<brobostigon> damn, it has just started raining, and i have alot to do today.
<brobostigon> :(
<christel> morning czajkowski!
<czajkowski> ello my dear
<christel> how art thou? :)
 * MartijnVdS +circles christel 
<christel> oh hot! :D
<MartijnVdS> christel: \o/ G+ ;)
<JamesTait> Good morning, from a cold and rainy Derby! :-/
<MartijnVdS> Good morning, from a nice and sunny Amsterdam! :)
<brobostigon> :(
<brobostigon> it is raining quite heavily here.
<diplo> and here near bath :(
<christel> it drizzled a tad earlier but no rain atm
<christel> good morning JamesTait!
<JamesTait> Good morning, christel! I thought you were ignoring me. :-P
<christel> never! i <3 you!
<JamesTait> christel: Of course you do! :-P
<diplo> OK, from heavy to torrential now :(
<christel> :D
<oimon> many londoners are not expecting rain today, unless they stash their rain coats and umbrellae at work
<oimon> my phone app says differently
 * jpds just carries the umbrella in his backpack.
<oimon> lots of people on the station had tshirts but no bags
<oimon> maybe they work next to the station at one end and live next to the station at the other
<christel> weather confuses me
<oimon> i notice the USC has really changed lately. lots of proprietary apps, free version of paid apps , etc
<oimon> much more like android app store
<oimon> where's Azelphur ? http://news.slashdot.org/story/12/08/29/0349226/large-bitcoin-ponzi-scheme-collapses-with-a-loss-of-56-million?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Slashdot%2Fslashdot+%28Slashdot%29
<davmor2> Morning all
<Monotoko> has anyone here dealt with PHP XML before?
<davmor2> czajkowski: PROD, PROD, PROD etc till you respond
<czajkowski> davmor2: ello
<davmor2> czajkowski: you live and interact with the t'interweb and everything ello
<livingdaylight> popey, you said, no, but what about Friendica?
<popey> looks like one of many sites that post to multiple social networks
<popey> there's lots of them
<davmor2> popey: what you doing looking for a social networking name?
<popey> no
<popey> not me
<popey> certainly an interesting option, have you tried it livingdaylight ?
<livingdaylight> popey, looking at it now for the first time - looks interesting but looks like one has to either join through somoene one already knows or create one's own server
<livingdaylight> davmor2, i came in earlier asking whether there was an open-source alternative to FB that posts to multiple network sites and thus avoids the limitation of "lock-in" and the google/fb herd
<czajkowski> davmor2: ok..
<oimon> facebook allows you to download all your data
<popey> so does google+
<oimon> problem solved
<oimon> g+, twitter, facebook is built on opensource,
<oimon> i go to fb to post pictures of my kids to my family, to g+ to read about tech news, and twitter to laugh at the angry people
<popey> I generally post the same stuff to all three, but keep some techy stuff off facebook
<popey> I'm tempted to reign in my facebook friends now and then, but meh
<oimon> i dont have work colleagues on fb, only ex ones
<oimon> since i keep in touch by sitting next to them
<diplo> oimon: Exactly the same
<diplo> and same as popey, mines friends/family and ex work colleagues
<popey> i have a few random community people on my fb
<popey> we have a private group on fb for the school year Sam is in
<popey> which we use to share school pics
<livingdaylight> fb is out of control. a) one has to constantly keep track of what they're doing coz security "goal-posts" shift constantly and b) friendlists get silly too and all the spam to this farm game or the other c) don't like zuckerberg and fb
<popey> fb is as out of control as you let it get
<diplo> I've only got about 60-70 people on my friends list
<livingdaylight> I prefer to support non-corporate and foss where I can
<popey> as do I
<popey> but there's a problem when your wife / friends are on the other network
<diplo> Problem is livingdaylight most others won't. People need to make money.. things can't stay free forever.
<davmor2> livingdaylight: the issue is you'll never find all your friends geek and non geek on a network that isn't popular.  For example FB and twitter for me are friends far and wide from all circles G+ is almost all Ubuntu/Canonical people and nothing else
<livingdaylight> popey, exactly, that's why I hoped to still be in contact with those that choose fb but via proxy. Some other site that doesn't tell us what to choose
<diplo> I had someone on my list complaining about FB changing things, if you paid for the service I'd understand or had shares but it's all free
<popey> but you still have to have a fb account livingdaylight
<popey> even if you use a 3rd party site
<oimon> how do you opt out of the face tracking database on fb?
<livingdaylight> hrmmm, fair-enough
<popey> oimon, its in timeline and tagging, in account security i think
<oimon> Who sees tag suggestions when photos that look like you are uploaded?
<oimon> popey, found it, was set to no one cheers
<livingdaylight> remember that case a while back where twitter was forced to handover information about somone in Iceland coz of something controversial? I don't know whether it was wikileaks-related? while back now, but, I just don't like all dem corporations in the pockets of the powers that be
<livingdaylight> not that I, personally, am doing anything untoward ^^
<livingdaylight> just the principle
<oimon> what annoys me is when friend click like on big corporates who are then allowed to spam my feed with sponsored links
<livingdaylight> why am I NOT doing anything untoward? .. what kind of rubbish activist am I hrmph
<livingdaylight> :)
<popey> heh
<diplo> I just hide all from said thing oimon, and if someones that bad, defriend them or move them into a group and hide notifications
<oimon> diplo, you can't hide sponsored links,
<oimon> only one-by-one after viewing it
<oimon> not en-masse
<diplo> ABP blocks them i think ?
<livingdaylight> fb needs an AdBlock plugin, lol
<diplo> on the right ?
<diplo> or in your news feed ?
<oimon> diplo, no, in the news feed
<diplo> Hmm, maybe I don't have such annoying people as you :D
<oimon> e.g. friend likes a certain car manufacturer, they make a sponsored post, which appears within my feed
<oimon> unblockable
<diplo> One guy used to spam youtube links once a week ALL night until someone complained
<oimon> since it's a fb story
<diplo> oh, don't really get that.
<oimon> i know people like that. i block or block videos from them
<diplo> Well he complained about your issue above to a load of his friends and they complained about youtubes so I think they came to a mutual agreement :)
<gord> i really wish xchat didn't give diplo and oimon the same colour, they both use lower case and have the same number of letters. just assumed oimon was talking to himself until i realised
<oimon> i am grey and diplo is gren
<gord> you are grey because you are you :P
<gord> you are both green here
<diplo> I'm white and oimon is dark green, gord is bright green :P
<oimon> hey, gord and diplo are the same colour
<oimon> xchat fail
<oimon> does it take a hash of the letter values?
<oimon> only seems to have about 10 colours, unlike pidgin
<livingdaylight> everyone is blue except me; I'm grey
<gord> i think its like 16. so imagine a 4bit hash ;) lots of collisions
<oimon> slow day at work
<oimon> not sure what i'm supposed to be doing :S
<diplo> I just can't get going :/
<diplo> All week!
<diplo> :P
<oimon> think i'll have lunch to kickstart my brain
<oimon> http://lifehacker.com/5938721/nvpy-brings-notational-velocity%20style-note%20taking-to-all-platforms << stores in cloud storage for you
<directhex> a note taking app with cloud storage? it's genius! we should have an app like that in a default ubuntu install!
<oimon> it appears some people don't like tomboy
<oimon> i work with some monotards
<oimon> people shouldn't get desks next to ac units. it gives them the idea that they own it
<Monotoko> oimon, ubuntu should really sync with cloud for notes... my iPhone and Windows 8 automatically syncs with my google notes/calender account
<diplo> Right shirt and trousers bought for tonight, suppose I better start working now
<christel> my! you are pushing the boat all the way out for this date! :D
<diplo> Well I needed trousers, so just a new shirt
<diplo> Got impress
<gord> wearing a shirt and trousers instead of just turning up in your boxers? fancy
<diplo> Got to*
<christel> hehe
<oimon> picking a quietish pub?
<oimon> or one with music?
<diplo> Quiet oimon, part restaurant
<diplo> Can't stand loud pubs anyhow, <-- Old :)
<diplo> Well feel it sometimes.
<oimon> remember not to moan about stuff or express opinions really strongly
<oimon> after a day at work i have pent up rage at all the stupidity i have witnessed.
<diplo> yeah that's why I waited so long, get the ex out of my system so it doesn't come up in conversation :)
<BigRedS> haha, I've just had a cathartic conversation along those lines
<directhex> is switching to oocalc totally totally broken in unity for anyone else?
<oimon> sorry don't use unity
<popey> directhex, define broken?
<directhex> popey, as in i can't switch to LO from the dock (or whatever it's called). clicking it, as with alt-tabbing to it, does nothing. re-opening the file from the dash recent documents section switches fine though
 * davmor2 randomly picks on bigcalm as to where he is sciving off to
<popey> directhex, is there a "pip" next to the LO icon in the launcher?
<popey> little triangle on th left, and one  on the right when it's highlighted?
<popey> also, has bamfdaemon crashed?
<popey> also, have you updated and not restarted session recently?
<directhex> popey, unfilled pip to the left (usually denotes it being on another workspace iirc). pip on the right when actually the active window
<popey> yes, unfilled means the window is elsewhere
<directhex> popey, it's been like this for days, with no backups, and plenty of reboots
<popey> is it multi-screen?
<davmor2> christel: Anyway what happened to our postcard? :D
<directhex> popey, technically there are 2 displays. one is turned off in the displays setup
<popey> ok
<popey> i believe it's a multiscreen bug
<popey> i see it too sometimes when i undock my laptop
<popey> so technically no second screen, but the pips are still wrong
<directhex> it's the minecraft lwjgl bug :|
<popey> bug 1024101
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1024101 in unity (Ubuntu) "Pips show incorrect status after attaching or detatching second screen" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1024101
<directhex> popey, except i boot with screens set up this way, and don't dock/undock. i get the issue permanently
<popey> strange
<popey> oimon, maybe Azelphur _is_ pirate, and he's left the country with all the money!
<Azelphur> popey: haha
<Azelphur> not quite :P
<popey> i see people still refusing to accept it's a ponzi scheme
<Azelphur> popey: there's still no evidence to say that it is yet, he's still active, still communicating, and still clearly stating he's intending to pay out (why would he do that if it was a ponzi scheme?)
<popey> to keep people at bay
<gord> because he thinks its funny?
<popey> so he gets a chance to see his coins and get out before people can track him down and sue him
<popey> s/see/sell/
<Monotoko> what's a ponzi scheme?
<Azelphur> *shrug*
<popey> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme
<christel> davmor2: i sent it!
<Azelphur> popey: I don't stand to loose a whole lot if it goes south anyway, I have my ass reasonably well covered.
<Monotoko> well, I know what one is... I meant, what are you guys talking about?
<Azelphur> as is always sensible with things like this :)
<Monotoko> last I checked there was some screen bug discussion
<KrimZon_2> ahh, the old screen-bug ponzi scheme scam
<KrimZon_2> oldest trick in the book
<popey> heh
<Monotoko> ... indeed, I'm going to go plan one right now!
<Azelphur> popey: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=82573.msg1141682#msg1141682 is the latest btw (that's communication between pirate and passthrough maintainers)
<KrimZon_2> maybe mining the coins was a calculation someone wanted to do, and the ponzi scheme was just a cover up
<Azelphur> KrimZon_2: someone needs to keanu meme that :p
<Azelphur> but yea, me and my upstream are still reasonably confident people will get their money back. Seems like I made the smart move to not bank with Chaang :P
<davmor2> christel: yeah, yeah we believe you ;)
<christel> haha no i did! :P
<davmor2> christel: in that case I blame the viking postal service, they should get some extra oars :D
<christel> haha
<christel> i only sent it the day before i left admittedly :P
<davmor2> christel: Man that late you could of bought it back with you and dropped it down the road quicker :D
<christel> haha true!
<christel> i was busy!
<christel> doing norwegians
<christel> err norwegian things
<BigRedS> hahaha
<dogmatic69> lol
<christel> hrm hrm where do i keep my stash of passports?!
<davmor2> christel: you make it sound like you have 4-5 in case a spy mission happen to get called in :)
<christel> only 3!
<christel> i need to send one off (for some reason converting my FORRIN drivers license to a UK one means the DVLA demands to see my passport as well as my foreign drivers license)
<christel> so i need to send one of my spares in case they lose it
<christel> (i have spares because the norwegian passport office (which is really the police) fail at remembering to take your old one away when you get a new one... )
<christel> (they are all valid and in my name, just one is super old-fashioned and not machine readable, another one started peeling slightly so the customs guy adviced me to replace it so i did and then they just printed me a new one)
<czajkowski> christel: I read a photo copy of it is ok
<czajkowski> as I'm not posting mine away when I want to convert mine
 * AlanBell thinks christel is really Jason Bourne
<christel> they also just randomly hand them out to Other People -- both times they told me to post my old one to them and then they would post my new one... both times they just gave them to my dad whilst he was there on Other Business and was all "Oh we have your daughter's passport, here"]
<christel> czajkowski: apparently not, it has to be "the original"
<czajkowski> hmmmm
<czajkowski> not entirely sure I want to send mine
<christel> i considered going to have a certified photocopy made at some random solicitor's office or something but The Lady On The Phone said they required sight of the original
<christel> AlanBell: does that excite you?
<christel> also, where can i take passport photos for said converted license?
<AlanBell> Paralympic opening ceremony this evening
<christel> :)
<AlanBell> bestest place for passport photos is the camera shop on Downing Street
<christel> danke <3
<oimon> how can i access itunesU on android/linux?
<MartijnVdS> oimon: ituneswhat?
<oimon> it's a university service for downloading lectuers, except that it uses itunes store
<MartijnVdS> *le shuddre*
<christel> how was the seaside AlanBell
<AlanBell> it was boats rather than beach, HMS Warrior and HMS Victory
<christel> aha:)
<AlanBell> kind of interesting
<diplo>  Right, off home.. maybe catch you guys later
<MartijnVdS> \o diplo
<TheFred> hello
<jacobw> hi
<christel> diplo: enjoy your date! :)
<pr0ph3t> hi all
<popey> lo
<pr0ph3t> gnome-settings-daemon keeps crashing on my Ubuntu 12.04 box, do you have a similar experience? I noticed there are some bugs on launchpad but they're all from around April, do you know if anything new has come out? Or is it something to do with my configuration?
<pr0ph3t> hi popey
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: I've seen that happen.. but no solution :(
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, right, thanks. Does your gtk theme reset as well? I get the crash quite regularly after an hours or so of being logged, that's why I thought it could have something to do with my configuration files being outdated or from older versions
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: yes, the GTK theme is part of what g-s-d manages
<MartijnVdS> and configs should auto-upgrade
<pr0ph3t> is it normal that it happened with Gnome shell too? Can gnome-settings-daemon be removed? What would be the consequences? Maybe I could remove it and re-install it, but would that remove the config files as well or should I do that manually?
<MartijnVdS> gnome-settings-daemon can't easily be removed
<MartijnVdS> but
<MartijnVdS> you can start it in a terminal, with debug flags, to see what goes wrong
<pr0ph3t> I installed 12.04 when it was in alpha and continued to upgrade, maybe something went wrong in the process
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: you'll know if you run it with --debug
<pr0ph3t> I did it, I have the file
<MartijnVdS> can you pastebin it?
<pr0ph3t> http://pastebin.com/SBp7a5A3
<MartijnVdS> ** (gnome-settings-daemon:3384): DEBUG: Shutting down
<MartijnVdS> wut
<MartijnVdS> it's not even crashing
<MartijnVdS> it's cleanly shutting down
<pr0ph3t> yup
<MartijnVdS> I'd file a bug :)
<MartijnVdS> Or blame popey
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: oh wait
<MartijnVdS> you could
<MartijnVdS> create a new user
<MartijnVdS> and log in as them
<MartijnVdS> see if they have the same problem
<popey> or login as guest
<MartijnVdS> or that
<MartijnVdS> evening popey  :)
<pr0ph3t> I hope I did cancel guest access, I'll try one of the two and will let you know in a few hours, it does take a while usually. Thanks popey, MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> it could be one program misbehaving that triggers it
<MartijnVdS> I've had problems with vlc making the window-decorator crash when I had the overlay-scrollbar installed
<pr0ph3tguest> re all
<MartijnVdS> \o pr0ph3tguest
<pr0ph3tguest> the test is underway
<JamesTait> Right, 'night all!
 * JamesTait waves
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: early?
<pr0ph3tguest> MartijnVdS, it seems to be doing fine now logged in as a guest
<pr0ph3tguest> although it hasn't even been an hour yet
<pr0ph3tguest> so if all is fine with a different user what should I do to "fix" my other user too?
<davmor2> night all
<MartijnVdS> \o Dave2
<MartijnVdS> uhjr
<MartijnVdS> davmor2, but he's gone
<pr0ph3tguest> MartijnVdS, what should I do then? Delete all config files from the other user?
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3tguest: not all.. but I don't know which ones
<MartijnVdS> look around ~/.config
<AlanBell> Stephen Hawking \o/
<jacobw> where?
 * jacobw looks around for him
<AlanBell> channel 4
<AlanBell> paralympic opening ceremony
<Pendulum> yay for the Paralympics \o/
<brobostigon> bbc1 ,sir  patrick stwert, :)
<zleap> ah
<brobostigon> wow, i would so love to meet him.
<popey> is AlanBell at the opening ceremony?
<AlanBell> nope, just watching on the telly
<dogmatic69> damn. a window somehow has gone above the screen now I cant move / resize it
<Pendulum> AlanBell: yay!
<AlanBell> yay indeed Pendulum
<AlanBell> there are still tickets for stuff if people want a cheap fun day out
<Pendulum> but relatively few tickets :)
<dogmatic69> any ideas how I can get it back down? http://i.imgur.com/YG26a.jpg
<popey> alt+space, then M to move
<popey> then use arrow keys to move it
<AlanBell> yes, nearly all sold out. Boccia is a good one (or anything at ExCeL because there are 6 sports on and you get an all day pass to all of them)
<popey> or use ALT+mouse
<dogmatic69> popey: genius :D
<dogmatic69> popey: btw, after the M the window is locked to the mouse so just moving that does the trick. cheers
<popey> nice
<brobostigon> another ww2 man, like my mums father.
<Mr_Tinkles> evening all
<Mr_Tinkles> what is yuck?
<AlanBell> maple syrup on bacon could be considered yuck
<Mr_Tinkles> I mean the application
<Mr_Tinkles> I think its some sort of customization thingummy
<Mr_Tinkles> thingy
<AlanBell> !info yuck
<lubotu3> Package yuck does not exist in precise
<AlanBell> probably some kind of reference to yum, which is the redhat package manager thing
<Mr_Tinkles> mabe I'm getting the name worng, its some sort of customization kit for ubuntu
<AlanBell> uck!
<AlanBell> !info uck
<lubotu3> uck (source: uck): Tool to customize official Ubuntu Live CDs. In component universe, is optional. Version 2.4.5-0ubuntu1 (precise), package size 179 kB, installed size 412 kB
<Mr_Tinkles> that's the one
<Pendulum> I wonder if they can train every sport announcer in the world to put in the words "for those who can" before "please stand for x anthem"
<AlanBell> it would appear to be just as valid for all occasions really
<davmor2> evening all
<AlanBell> o/ davmor2
<davmor2> I'm having a play with the new accounts stuff on quantal
<davmor2> irc in empathy seems to of improved a bit
<davmor2> I mean it's still sucky but it's 100% better than it was
<davmor2> oh well time for night nights
#ubuntu-uk 2012-08-30
<stilofromfr> Good night everyone , can somebody help me with this udev rules to recognize an android allwinnner A10 tablet with ADB over usb ? : # adb protocol on passion (ondaVi30v1) SUBSYSTEM=="usb", ATTR{idVendor}=="18d1", ATTR{idProduct}=="0003", MODE="0600", OWNER="<ylan>"
<stilofromfr> it doesnt show up in adb ... thanks if someone is still up :)
<stilofromfr> is there anything differnet to configure those on 12.04?
<stilofromfr> Hello everyone I need urgent help on adb please ?!
<stilofromfr> I cant get to see my tab I only get ??????????? no permission when Im rooted on my tablet according to superuser also I cant backup wcorrectly the stock rom , I need lights pls
<diplo> Morning all
<christel> morning!
<christel> diplo: how was it? :D
<diplo> Hiya christel, ok I think. We chatted for about 3 hours so can't have been that bad :)
<diplo> She was nicer than her photo which was a bonus ( not that looks are everything but they do help )
<diplo> Just as we left she said about seeing me again, but dont know if that's to remove the awkwardness, so will see in the coming days
<popey> yay
<popey> now leave it the industry standard two days before contacting again :)
<popey> or.. find her on facebook and stalk her
<diplo> Well lets just hope that has removed some of the nervousness from me!
<diplo> Found her on FB already but won't stalk :D
<popey> heh
<diplo> She's away for 2 days anyway so good timing for me.
<christel> diplo: :D
<christel> superb!!
<christel> i am most pleased for you \o/
<TheOpenSourcerer> Gosh - so glad I don't have to deal with that kind of thing anymore.
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning all btw
<diplo> TheOpenSourcerer: I'd rather not as well
<TheOpenSourcerer> oh.
<diplo> quite happy to go straight to a full time relationship, skip the dating side that is
<TheOpenSourcerer> yeah.
<diplo> More because I'm rubbish at it
<TheOpenSourcerer> I was never much cop at the chase. In fact Mrs OpenSourcerer ended up having to ask me out ;-)
<christel> hehe
<TheOpenSourcerer> Mightily glad she did.
<diplo> TheOpenSourcerer: That would be great!
<christel> i am suffering slightly today
<diplo> booze ?
<christel> yeah, went for a post-holiday gossipfest with friends last night... and feel in dire need of another holiday today!
<TheOpenSourcerer> you back now then christel?
<christel> yesss :D
<christel> we should go on a date!
<christel> of the lunch variety
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hmm - not sure how my beloved wife would react.
<christel> haha <3
<christel> sok, we can bring AlanBell to chaperone!
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> Next week is pants. AlanBell is helping at the Paralympics most of the week so I will be "manning the fort" as they say.
<christel> ah yes! he is donning his dreadfully camp polyester suit for a week
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :)
<christel> MORNING JAMESLOVELYTAIT <3
 * daubers sits in the dark waiting for the UPS to run out and the router to go off
<daubers> stupid electric company
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<christel> \o brobostigon
<brobostigon> \o christel
<AlanBell> choo choo
<mungojerry> http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2012/Aug-29.html << miguel de icaza gives up on desktop linux
<mungojerry> to be fair, he's always talked like that. people used to think he was secretly working for MS
<TheOpenSourcerer> mungojerry: That's a yawn inspiring post if ever I read one.
<mungojerry> tinged with flamebait
<TheOpenSourcerer> indeed. Well he's probably a bit skint and needs to get a new job.
<TheOpenSourcerer> </cynicism>
<directhex> he gave up on desktop linux years ago
<directhex> how many years ago was helixcode, have things changed much since then?
<directhex> or International GNOME Support before that
<TheOpenSourcerer> I think, except for devs and graphic designers the whole "desktop" (whatever that is) is probably dead anyway.
<mungojerry> i think who you mix with has an effect on your opinions. where i work, the linux desktop is thriving. if you hang out with hipsters and designers, then you could be forgiven for wondering if any other company besides apple & adobe produce hardware and software
<directhex> mungojerry, introspection is important though
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, the world & hos wife is on ipads these days?
<mungojerry> yes, constructive criticism indeed
<TheOpenSourcerer> directhex: ipads, Tabs, smartphones, phablets and whatever next will pop out of the woodwork...
<TheOpenSourcerer> The new Samsung Camera is an interesting development - bits of "intelligent h/w" for a specific job rather than a general purpose "PC"...
<popey> my mother in law has a desktop computer in her office, no smartphone. she recently retired, and got an ipad as a retirement present. i dont think she's used the pc since
<gord> i don't see the worlds offices being replaced with ipads anytime soon
<mungojerry> popey, how about data entry? does she have a bluetooth keyboard?
<mungojerry> i like the idea of asus transformer, but you still need large disk to store your stuff
<popey> she didnt until this week when her hubby bought one for her as a present
<popey> i doubt she'll use it tbh
<mungojerry> how does she type emails?
<popey> there is this virtual keyboard which pops up on the screen
<mungojerry> 10x slower than typing though
<mungojerry> maybe she has the time
<popey> i dont think its that slow
<popey> i can type pretty quick on iphone and ipad
<popey> but if she needs to she now has the hw keyboard if it's a tome
<mungojerry> even swyping i can't write more than a few lines without thinking i need to crack open the laptop or not bother
<popey> *shrug*
<gord> typing on an ipad or anything larger isn't so bad, anything small sucks though
<mungojerry> i think laptops will become slimmer and more device-like (i.e hard to replace parts), but laptops will be around for quite a while
<Mez> mungojerry: on the transformer - typing isn't too bad as it feels close to a full size keyboard in landscape.
<mungojerry> on the real keyboard or the touchscreen?
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> czajkowski: Prod
<christel> GOOD MORNING davmor2
<davmor2> christel: oh that's loud I'm guessing you had a good night at the pub :D
<christel> the pub was good, the morning was not so good :P
<christel> improving now though
<popey> 08457581545
<popey> uh, oops
 * christel calls
<davmor2> popey: D'oh
<popey> meh
<christel> (i always use irc as my "place to write stuff down" -- but i now have a query window with myself for the purpose as i end up sharing the weirdest stuff with The World otherwise)
<popey> :)
<gord> i've typed passwords into irc lots recently, cos i'm super smart
<popey> thats exactly what i did
 * davmor2 goes back and checks all of gords irc chats for passwords 
 * bigcalm rolls in
<bigcalm> Sprints are painful
<davmor2> bigcalm: how do chap
<bigcalm> davmor2: worn down. How's you?
<davmor2> bigcalm: I'm good thanks
<christel> BIGCLAM :D:D:D:D
<christel> how are you one of my bestestest and most favourite people in the entire world ever?!
<bigcalm> mgdm: Boss is going to attend phpnw conference and is buying our tickets :D Have to pay for the hotel myself though...
<bigcalm> LOL
<bigcalm> Hey christel :D
<bigcalm> christel: all the happier for seeing you
<mgdm> bigcalm: woo!
<bigcalm> christel: how are you my dear?
<bigcalm> christel: I get the feeling that you want something of me? ;)
<christel> bigcalm: :D
<christel> me?! never!
<christel> i just miss you that is all!
<christel> :P
<gord> genius idea, sprinkle some sort of mint on my vanilla latte
 * bigcalm hugs christel
<christel> HUGS ARE MY FAVOURITE :D
 * christel hugs bigcalm 
 * mungojerry prods diplo 
<diplo> ello
<mungojerry> how'd it go last night?
<Mez> christel: are you causing trouble again ?
<diplo> not to bad thanks, not sure if it's a goer or not, but I got more comfortable as the night went on, like an interview it'll get better with time I'm hoping :)
<christel> Mez: never! i always behave well like the angelic person that i am :)
<mungojerry> cool diplo :D
<Mez> christel: I think I just saw something pink fly past my window.
<mungojerry> did you show her your tux tattoo?
<davmor2> Mez: wow you have pink planes out in coventry?
<diplo> heh, no but her son has got a Rasp Pi! I was well impressed ( he's 12 )
<Mez> It was kind of .... bacon shaped.
<daubers> bacon?????
 * daubers wants bacon
<davmor2> Mez: but Jono's in the states
<mungojerry> how do you get a surname like bacon anyway?
<Mez> mungojerry: I'd reply to that - but it's too easy to make jokes about ancestry and pigs.
<mungojerry> This most interesting surname has two possible interpretations, both of Germanic origin. It may be a metonymic occupational name for someone who prepared and sold cured pork, a pork butcher, from the Old French, Middle English "bacun, bacon", bacon, ham (of Germanic origin). The name, according to another source may derive from the Germanic personal name "Bac(c)o", "Bahho", from the root "bag", to fight, which was common among t
<mungojerry> he Normans in the form "Bacus", "Bacon". Hence, the name was probably introduced into England by the Normans after the Conquest of 1066.
<davmor2> mungojerry: well some woman marry Sir Francis and then had kids, and they had kids and so on
<mungojerry> just discovered that synapse has an gnome-do theme...cheeky lol
<mungojerry> looks identical
<daubers> all this talk of bacon has made me hungry
<mungojerry> i might go for bacon sarnie this lunch
<christel> mmm i quite fancy some bacon also
<davmor2> is betting that christel already has a bacon sandwich
<christel> not yet! :P
<christel> i am playing a game to pick a random number so that i can give this client a quote
<christel> they were all "ZOMG WE HAVE THIS URGENT STUFF WE NEEDED BY 8AM ON MONDAY, WE WILL PAY YOU AN URGENCY FEE IF YOU CAN WORK AT THE WEEKEND!" so i now have to decide what my urgency fee should be
<daubers> christel: Roll a d20 and multiply by Â£1000?
<christel> i like your thinking!
<daubers> (that's not how I cost engineer days for people I don't like..... honest)
<christel> *grin*
<mungojerry> time x 1.5 ?
<davmor2> daubers: I think you mean roll 5 d20's
<daubers> davmor2: Hah!
<mungojerry> i have managed to avoid ever having to work on a sunday before
<mungojerry> i just say "aint gonna happen dude"
<davmor2> daubers: with a d20 there is still the chance of getting 1
<bigcalm> mgdm: this is what I get for booking late. Had to get the Executive room for 75 quid a night
<christel> x 1.5 could work.. or simply x 2 (they need it so they're hardly likely to argue)
<christel> bigcalm: where you off to?
<bigcalm> christel: PHP North West conference in October up in Manc
<christel> aa
<christel> :)
<daubers> davmor2: Not with my d20...
<davmor2> daubers: weighted d20's don't count, also d20's with 20 on every side don't count either :D
<daubers> davmor2: :p
<popey> mungojerry, you work in public sector? :)
<mungojerry> popey, yes
<mungojerry> only recently though, most years were in banking sector and softwre
<mungojerry> where i was often the main linux guy
<popey> why don't you work weekends?
<jpds> popey: I do.
 * jpds runs.
<mungojerry> i value time with my family, and i enjoy going to church on sunday more than i do going to work. my good spiritual wellbeing has an impact on my work life too
<popey> Ah.
<mungojerry> i've managed to avoid issues until now by agreeing to do a saturday and then early on the monday for office moves and power downs etc
<popey> people still go to church on sunday :S
<mungojerry> it generally works out well for my sanity not to make too many compromises
<mungojerry> yes, my church has over 1000 on a sunday, it's brilliant
<christel> see, i wish i had sensible values like that... i frequently end up working at weekends instead of spending time with my family, most often motivated by shoes... i may place too high a value on my ability to purchase shoes :s
<popey> golly
<christel> my that is a rather large attendance
<mungojerry> it's not your songs of praise type dusty church thing. most churches nowadays have different approach
<mungojerry> anyone understand what the zeitgeist full text search extension does? i understand it doesn't index all of the text in a file, but trying to understand what it gives me
<brobostigon> interesting, amazon android appstore, now available in the uk.
<mungojerry> brobostigon, do they still do free app of the day?
<brobostigon> mungojerry: yes.
<christel> balls, they accepted my x2 quote, i should have gone higher!
<mungojerry> gamblers regret.
<mungojerry> brobostigon, do you have a link please?
<mungojerry> not showing on my amazon page
<christel> i always quote way too conservatively i think... i never know what would be "too far" so i tend to play it safe and then go "duh... i should have gone higher" :)
<mungojerry> amazon are announcing some stuffs in september too
<brobostigon> https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/feature.htmfedup.com.aul?docId=1000644603
<mungojerry> ta
<brobostigon> :)
<mungojerry> no room on my phone for more apps but my tablet has loads :D
<mungojerry> i'm enjoying world of goo like never before on my tablet
<daubers> Hmmm... never liked the Amazon ToS for their App Store. Have they fixed it yet?
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's not fair. 12 peeps have rated christel 's rack but only 3 mine :-( http://ratemyspicerack.com/opensourcerer/
<TheOpenSourcerer> Funny pic of the day - a cow laughing at a horse stuck in a gate https://twitter.com/MATTYB00SH/status/241104086630539264/photo/1
 * christel rates TheOpenSourcerer's rack
<diplo> I will take a look tonight and rate TheOpenSourcerer as I have to add my cupboard rack :)
 * TheOpenSourcerer hates waiting for the postman...
<directhex> badger
<TheOpenSourcerer> hedgehog
<czajkowski> dog
<davmor2> Moo Cow
 * mungojerry returns to desk with BLT and after eight sweets
<mungojerry> been thinking about the amazon appstore. i would actually be more inclined to use it than google one since i don't have goog payments set up
 * gord has candy that tastes like sweet potato and has edible wrappers :P
<popey> i used to eat the wrappers from opal fruits
<gord> that explains a lot
<mungojerry> remember mint acers?
<mungojerry> mmmm
<davmor2> popey: thet missed a treat not making them out of rice paper :)
<czajkowski> oh edible paper
<czajkowski> yummy stuff
<oly> hi, Anyone know if you can create web app integrations with python, ie using the new ubuntu feature in 12.10 looked around but not finding anything :/
<mungojerry> just read that gnomebuntu is getting a release with 12.10
<czajkowski> gnomebuntu?
<KungFuPanda> Hi guys, I want to write a init.d script in order to run youtrack or teamcity on system boot up,  I do not know anything about init.d script, anyone can give a good script tutorial ?
<mungojerry> czajkowski, http://worldofgnome.org/gnomebuntu-is-set-to-arrive-in-october-18/
<bigcalm> mgdm: is there a guide to writing good annotations so that phpdoc can pick them up?
<bigcalm> KungFuPanda: 1st result searching on "how to write a init.d script": http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/linux-write-sys-v-init-script-to-start-stop-service.html
<bigcalm> KungFuPanda: there are many more results to wade though as well
<KungFuPanda> bigcalm: thanks a lot
<ali1234> oly: you use dbus like a normal application
<mungojerry> bacon tshirt: http://shirt.woot.com/offers/the-piglets-of-the-caribbacon
<mungojerry> if i was vegetarian i'd still eat bacon :D
<christel> surely it counts as one of your five-a-day? :)
<mungojerry> five animals a day?
<christel> haha
<oly> ali1234, thats intresting will see if i can find some example on that :)
<mungojerry> they don't specify 5 what do they?
<oly> used dbus a little in python
<davmor2> mungojerry, christel: you 5 pork items a day, have pigs in blankets you hit 2 straight away :)
<mungojerry> mmm pigs in blankets, inserted inside a chicken
<mungojerry> which is inside a turkey
<directhex> turducken?
<directhex> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Xc5wIpUenQ
<KungFuPanda> anyone successfully run youtrack on ubuntu ?
<mungojerry> lol : ie, the most feared icon : http://imgur.com/a/nuKR2
<mgdm> bigcalm: other than the phpdoc manual, I don't know
<bigcalm> mgdm: fair enough, ta
<mgdm> bigcalm: also, wrt hotel, fuck :(
<mgdm> I'm not booked yet
<mgdm> also, whoops, didn't clock what channel I'm in
<bigcalm> :)
<bigcalm> At least you noticed afterwards
<bigcalm> mgdm: hurry, you might not get a room at all in the more expensive hotel
 * davmor2 tickles czajkowski and christel and dives for the bunker
<popey> KungFuPanda, never heard of it
<KungFuPanda> :P
<The_Fred> hello
<s-fox> hello The_Fred
<The_Fred> i'm not sure if im worrying too much,but im seeing a 7degree temp difference on my cpu - is that normal?
<The_Fred> its a dual core celerol g530
<The_Fred> *celeron
<The_Fred> core0 = 34 core1 = 41
<davmor2> popey: Well it's a disney cartoon where you have a panda that does kungfu :)
<directhex> http://www.zurmat.com/2012/08/29/samsung-pays-apple-1-billion-sending-30-trucks-full-of-5-cent-coins/
<directhex> wrong.
<directhex> kung fu panda is dreamworks
<directhex> hmph. never mind. http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2012/aug/29/apple-samsung-trucks-nickels-fake?newsfeed=true
<Mez> welp, mass invites sent out to past attendees for the Global Jam... now hopefully we'll get some signups
<davmor2> directhex: I got pixar and dreamworks mixed up, paramount own dreamworks and disney own pixar
<arsen> just found a filserver running on a root of 8*32GB SSD's in raid6 xD
<directhex> yikes
<directhex> i mean, raid5/6 make sense on small drives, but 32G SSDs are gonna have extremely short lifetimes
<directhex> hell, a "good" intel 520 only has 60T of life
<directhex> lolz. http://mobile.theverge.com/2012/8/27/3271637/bitcoin-savings-trust-pyramid-scheme-shuts-down
<popey> catching up with olde news there directhex :)
<directhex> stabbystabstab
<Laney> Inconsistency detected by ld.so: dl-open.c: 667: _dl_open: Assertion `_dl_debug_initialize (0, args.nsid)->r_state == RT_CONSISTENT' failed!
<Laney> no spotify for laney :(
<MartijnVdS> poor laney
<mattt> WEWT WEWT WEWT
 * davmor2 mocks that Software-updater text that reads, Software has been updated since the release of 12.10  it's not released yet :D
 * mattt mocks davmor2
<KungFuPanda> Hi guys, is this the right way to do it ? I write a init.d script to run a custom service under that user. example , I create a Teamcity user, and write a teamcity script under init.d, inside that script, teamcity runed by teamcity user. so now every time when I start service teamcity start, it will ask me to input the teamcity user password.
<davmor2> mattt: why?
<KungFuPanda> so now, every user want to start teamcity service, have to input teamcity user password ?
<mattt> davmor2: no reason
 * mattt unmocks davmor2
<cliftonts> Evening all
<popey> pip pip
<cliftonts> Gnomebuntu? I've heard it all now!
<davmor2> popey: when you say that it makes me think it pims o'clock
<cliftonts> Does anyone here know anything about the Pentium P6200 processor?
<davmor2> cliftonts: I know it's a processor, it's a pentium and it's made by intel does that help?
<popey> nothing that google doesn't know
<cliftonts> I'm doubting the first statement there davmor2
<cliftonts> If it is a processor based by how it performs I think it pre-dates the original pentium!
<popey> my first Pentium was a P200
<popey> iirc
<cliftonts> I was under the illusion my new laptop was going to have an i3 processor, instead I got this!
<popey> unlucky
<cliftonts> Aah, are you suggesting that P6200 is a misprint popey?
<popey> heh
<cliftonts> Brand new laptop and if I try to play video in a quarter of the screen, with thunderbird and firefox open everything keeps stalling
<cliftonts> for a machine with 4GB, 500GB I find that dissapointing
<davmor2> cliftonts: did it actually say i3 processor if so send it back
<cliftonts> no, it said pentium processor, which I thought was fantastically vague
<cliftonts> I did some research and decided that i3 was the likely model
<cliftonts> It is odd though that my new laptop can't do what my old one with a 60gb hard drive was fine with
<davmor2> cliftonts: sadtrombone.com
<cliftonts> although this one can unplug from the wall without switching off and the power socket is properly attached to the motherboard so all in all it's an improvement!
<cliftonts> I remember being able to tell one processor was better than another purely by the name, i.e. 386 vs 486
<cliftonts> the good old days!
<cliftonts> you lot are quiet tonight
<Azelphur> is it just me or is there no button on ebay to change your phone number
<Azelphur> why is it that when you ask on IRC you find it, after searching for 30 minutes
<cliftonts> Ebay was modelled around a labyrinth
<Azelphur> indeed
<Azelphur> phone number is apparently under "primary postage address" and it shows address next to the button but not the phone number, just to make it easy to find
<cliftonts> I find that I can locate the section to change it but there's always one more buried elsewhere I didn't change
<Azelphur> fun
<cliftonts> you love it
<cliftonts> that's why I use ebid instead
<Azelphur> cliftonts: yep, it stores my phone number in two places xD
<cliftonts> Thought so
<Azelphur> cliftonts: I was actually tempted to use ebid, PPPay escrow sounds pretty cool although I couldn't find many people online using it
<cliftonts> Azelphur: It's growing all the time, at the moment you can sign up for Â£49.99 lifetime membership and get free listings forever
<Azelphur> why does the UI blank out my phone number with partial X's
<cliftonts> I figured sign up now before they take the offer awau
<cliftonts> away
<Azelphur> someone might be standing behind me...and they might....PHONE ME (dramatic music riff)
<cliftonts> I list everything on ebid and select items on ebay, I've got nothing to lose
<Azelphur> cliftonts: ah that's pretty cool
<Azelphur> I hear PPPay charges you for every little thing
<cliftonts> Azelphur: Exactly, the final sale fee is 2% if you have a gallery photo and nothing if you don't!
<cliftonts> I don't know, I haven't used PPPay yet
<Azelphur> fun
<cliftonts> But ebay are screwing more and more out of us. I don't remember using it being so painful 10 years ago
<Azelphur> hehe
<cliftonts> So ebid has to work, the more greeder ebay gets the bigger ebid grows
<cliftonts> Amazon are just as bad
<Azelphur> fun
<Azelphur> cliftonts: I'm having fun with ebay atm, it seems the world is conspiring against me having a Galaxy S3
<cliftonts> how do you mean?
<Azelphur> I bought one that was described as brand new in box but when I got it it was all messed up, so I sent it back
<Azelphur> now I've ordered another one and the guy isn't shipping it
<Azelphur> :(
<gareth_> sorry got cut off
<gareth_> What was that about an s3 Azelphur?
<Azelphur> gareth_: are you cliftonts?
<gareth_> yes, stupid irc!
<Azelphur> gareth_: hehe, http://pastebin.com/U1WuQ96L
<cliftonts> What do you mean messed up? Broken? Or just opened and tampered with?
<Azelphur> cliftonts: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/x1btb0c9w9futq4/3mEOQEpIEW?m xD
<cliftonts> Ok, looks like he may have had a game of football before shipping it!
<Azelphur> cliftonts: indeed
<cliftonts> If I were you I'd push for money back. If he's not shipping another one out I'd just write him off as un-trustworthy and work on the theory a replacement from him is probably never going to be right.
<Azelphur> cliftonts: I already got my money back off him, he was an obvious scammer but he lost in every sense of the word in that little war :)
 * Azelphur lawyered him
<cliftonts> Good. I hate it when people like that weasel their way into profit
<Azelphur> indeed
<Azelphur> his feedback is really bad now too since he did it to a couple of people, I doubt anyone sane will buy off him any more
<cliftonts> I'd better get going anyway. I just realised I've only got 66mb data to last the week. I can't top up until the 7th!
<Azelphur> ouch :p
<cliftonts> Good, the feedback system rarely works so that makes a change
<cliftonts> Yeah, the wonders of pay as you go 3g!
<cliftonts> Nice chatting anyway. See you next time
<brobostigon> the joys of three, unlimited no fup, PAYG data :)
<cliftonts> brobostigon - three's crappy service is what drove me to never go contract ever again. Their name is worse than dirt round here!
<Seeker`> hallo
<Azelphur> Seeker`: hallo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPVAdM43kQs
<cliftonts> anyway, bye for now
<brobostigon> cliftonts: i just use that much data, that anything else, that wasnt truly unlimited, would be pointless.
<cliftonts> brobostigon, same here and I'm having serious culture shock issues now I don't have a proper connection
<brobostigon> cliftonts: understandable.
<cliftonts> so you're on unlimited pay as you go?
<brobostigon> yes.
<cliftonts> I can't see that on their site anywhere. How much?
<brobostigon> Â£15
<brobostigon> all you can eat data.
<cliftonts> I can see that on a contract, but not payg
<brobostigon> it is there,
 * Seeker` is off to belgium tomorrow!
<brobostigon> cliftonts: let me find it for you. minute.
<cliftonts> That would be a great help. At the moment I have to pay 2p per megabyte when I run out of data!
<brobostigon> cliftonts: http://www.three.co.uk/Discover/Phones/Get_better_value_with_an_Add_on pay as you go phone, then all you can eat 15.
<cliftonts> But that's for phone and not mobile broadband
<cliftonts> Wouldn't they complain if I used that direct with the pc?
<brobostigon> no idea, i have done it a few times, and they havent complained.
<cliftonts> I did it once with my phone's sim for a month and they cut my broadband off for over 2 months!
<brobostigon> :(
<Azelphur> I get unlimited and some minutes on my mobile for Â£10/mo
<Azelphur> your not allowed to tether, but I tether anyway
<cliftonts> Pay as you go broadband plans are simply not realistic. I only check emails and maintian my website and I run out every month
<Azelphur> obligatory http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/watch-out-we-got-a-badass-over-here-meme.png
<Azelphur> I think a lot of ISPs are not in touch with reality when it comes to data
<cliftonts> I've now reached the point where I have 2 sims so I can top the 2nd up with a bundle when the 1st runs out
<Azelphur> I wrote a little informative rant about data on the giffgaff forums in reply to someone elses post, http://community.giffgaff.com/t5/Contribute-Innovation-Promotion/Gigabags-not-so-great/m-p/5650416/highlight/true#M136065
<cliftonts> Aah, so you're a convert then?
<Azelphur> I'm a giffgaffer, yep
<cliftonts> How do you tether? Mine cuts the connection completely whenever I try
<Azelphur> I just use android and tethering, but I havn't tried it recently
<Azelphur> lemme check it again
<cliftonts> Mine used to work but when I try now even the phone doesn't get it
<Azelphur> if they are detecting it I know how and will just bypass it anyway
<cliftonts> I just bypass it by putting the sim card in my dongle!
<Azelphur> haha
<cliftonts> But it's not fair that contracts get 20gb+ allowances and I'm stuck with a pathetic 3gb.
<cliftonts> They are talking about how 4g will revolutionise mobile data but the simple fact is it's going to do it in very short bursts unless they give us more allowance!
<Azelphur> cliftonts: yea it still works for me I'm browsing on my tablet tethered to my phone
<Azelphur> unless they detect browser user agent, lemme try my laptop.
<cliftonts> It'd possible there's just something wrong with my phone, who knows
<Azelphur> nope works on all the things, sounds like something wrong with your phone
<cliftonts> Just my luck
<Azelphur> what phone?
<cliftonts> galaxy mini
<Azelphur> using a custom rom?
<cliftonts> can you use internet on the phone while it's tethered?
<Azelphur> cliftonts: yep
<MartijnVdS> come to .nl, we have net neutrality
<Azelphur> I just used laptop + tablet + phone all tethered to phone lol
<MartijnVdS> ISPs can't limit your internet connection like that :)
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: I want to go to there.
<cliftonts> MartinVdS, I can't afford the bus fare to the airport!
<MartijnVdS> we do get tiny allowances on 3G though :(
<Azelphur> :(
<MartijnVdS> cliftonts: don't use so much data :)
<cliftonts> MartinVdS, when you use it to earn a living is that a realistic option?
<MartijnVdS> so it's a chicken/egg thing :)
<Azelphur> I once had my entire house tethered to my giffgaff phone when our internet was down (4 people)
<Azelphur> I think they are getting more aggressive against people tethering now, I've heard a couple of people getting suspended now
<cliftonts> nope, I turned on the wireless hotspot on and now I can't view web pages on the phone
<cliftonts> as I said, I was suspended for 2 months
<cliftonts> I think that's a load of crap! I've paid for it, so who cares how I use it. If they don't want me using unlimited data, then don't offer it!
<Azelphur> cliftonts++, that's why I bypass all the limits
<Azelphur> I hate ISPs that are only interested in selling "unlimited" bandwidth to people who won't use it
<cliftonts> Trouble is when the end result is that they suspend you then you don't win
<Azelphur> I'd just go elsewhere
<cliftonts> I hate ISPs that offer unlimited services, and by that I mean limited
<cliftonts> Go elsewhere and pay more for the same thing?
<Azelphur> cliftonts: you know sky is proper unlimited broadband right?
<Azelphur> no FUP, I've done 1TB in a month on it
<Azelphur> but that's home not mobile
<cliftonts> fup?
<Azelphur> fair usage policy
<cliftonts> exactly. I'm only in this house temporary
<Azelphur> hehe
<cliftonts> If I get a landline installed it'll cost money I don't have and they'll screw me when I move
<Azelphur> :(
<cliftonts> Did you guys know by the way that I'm the richest man in the world?
<Azelphur> nice
<cliftonts> Judging by my emails so far this year EVERY SINGLE nigerian is giving me a million dollars
<Azelphur> cliftonts: I had a UK company offering me millions of dollars a couple days ago
<Azelphur> made it through my spam filter :o
<cliftonts> I don't have one set up on my work emails. I don't like the idea of missing anything genuine]
<cliftonts> I had one today trying to convince me to adopt a puppy. That's a new angle!
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> cliftonts: I use gmail so usually there arn't any false positives
<cliftonts> I use gmail for my personal mail, it has been known to make mistakes
 * Azelphur shrugs
<Azelphur> I get so much spam I couldn't live without a spam filter
<cliftonts> I think I've been quite lucky with the work addresses so far
<Azelphur> lol wtf I just looked in my spam box I have mail from "Linux Insurance Service"
<Azelphur> http://pastebin.com/2PEXhSGE haha
<cliftonts> I can't even follow what they are saying it's so bad
<Azelphur> xD
<cliftonts> Why would an insurance company be sending you a package anyway?
<Azelphur> who knows XD
<cliftonts> How can these people not realise that it has to make sense to fool you?
<cliftonts> I miss having proper broadband I'm fed up with having to go down the pub every time I want to download something!
<Azelphur> cliftonts: it's actually designed to be terrible afaik to filter down to only the most gullible people
<cliftonts> And the worst thing is I know one of those people
<cliftonts> He sent his iphone to someone in nigeria
<Azelphur> fail
<cliftonts> He sold it on ebay and they faked an escrow message from paypal telling him the money was safe with them so he could send it.
<cliftonts> I could forgive him that, it was actually very convincing. But the fact they sent another paypal email telling him they had overcharged the customer and he needed to send Â£200 by western union, and HE WAS GOING TO DO IT, idiot!
<cliftonts> Right, I'm off then!
<bigcalm> Good evening peeps :)
 * davmor2 prods bigcalm hello sciver
<bigcalm> Hi davmor2
<bigcalm> Sciving from IRC?
<davmor2> bigcalm: yeah
<bigcalm> Amazing how much can get done without the distraction ;)
 * bigcalm fires up his unit tests and hopes for the best
 * davmor2 waits for test one to fail before doing his evil laugh
<bigcalm> :P
<bigcalm> Test 15 failed
<bigcalm> Yay
<davmor2> Muhahahahahaahahahahahahaha
<MartijnVdS> All tests successful
<bigcalm> It's the one with the hairiest logic
<bigcalm> davmor2: that's a bit unfair, test one passed
<davmor2> bigcalm: if you've had anything to do with it it's all hairy logic, you need bald logic for it to work ;)
<davmor2> bigcalm: that was my mock evil laugh not my real one :P
<bigcalm> Ha
 * bigcalm shakes his head
<davmor2> bigcalm: just got with my testing theory,  If at first a test passed use a big hammer till it breaks
<bigcalm> davmor2: indeed. I never trust a test that passes 1st time
<bigcalm> Though, some of my unit tests are longer than the methods themselves
<bigcalm> Which is silly. I can see why unit/functional testing is so expensive and why so much of the 'net is broken
<davmor2> night all
<bigcalm> And just like that, I make all of my tests work :D
<SuperEngineer> bigcalm: I'm tempted to ask if you spelt 'tests' correctly... if you did, well done, if you didn't - you naughty boy, you!
<bigcalm> Haha
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<bigcalm> Great, I have a single failing test for no reason
<bigcalm> Blah
<bigcalm> Scratch that, 2 fails now
<bigcalm> Aha, they are related tests that make calls to an external service
<bigcalm> The success tests are failing while the exception tests are working just fine
<bigcalm> I'm okay with this
<zleap> hi
<Darael> Greetings, zleap.
<zleap> hi
<zleap> just found a weird bug in lubuntu
<zleap> according to df -h i have an 8 gb flash disk,  if I right click on /media/kingston It comes with 10.7 TB (10,692,911,955,968 bytes
<zleap> for the same device
<zleap> i don't have 10.7 tb anywhere on my system
<Darael> A ridiculous-compression-level squashfs, or something?
<Darael> That or a bug.
<mgdm> I would guess something is corrupt, first :)
<zleap> well df -h seems to show it properly
<popey> what app are you right clicking in?
<zleap> the lubunt file manager
<zleap> Lightweight file manager
<zleap> navigating to /media/kingston and then right clicking on the kingston folder and selecting properties
 * zleap wonders how much a 10tb flash drive would cost
<Darael> Don't know if we can even /make/ things with the data-density.
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> would be nice eh
<Darael> I wander if we could calculate by extrapolating Moore's Law...
<Darael> s/wander/wonder/
<Darael> I can type, I swear.
<zleap> would we want to,  as some user is bound to lose the one device with all data for everyone
<Darael> Nah - requirements and available resources go up roughly in tandem.
<zleap> ok
 * zleap will investigate further 
<zleap> chat later
<The_Fred> hello
#ubuntu-uk 2012-08-31
<AlanBell> choo choo
<christel> Alan The Amazing Belltrain
<diplo> Morning all
<popey> morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning popey
<TheOpenSourcerer> Did you book a campsite?
<popey> nah, you don't need to book for this one
<popey> ooh, thunderbird 15 arrived in 12.04, nice
<MartijnVdS> is it very different?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Mrs TheOpenSourcerer is off with the kids today to Chalmouth for the weekend
<TheOpenSourcerer> TB15 has integrated IRC, GChat, Twitter and other messaging protocols
<TheOpenSourcerer> MartijnVdS: ^^
<popey_tb> ooh
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: *shudder*
<MartijnVdS> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird/Support/TB15UserChanges
<popey_tb> well this is interesting
<popey_tb> don't like the idea that if my mail client dies it takes out irc with it though
<MartijnVdS> it lists "Ubuntu One" as a feature
<MartijnVdS> on the Mozilla page
<popey_tb> "Do one thing well"
<MartijnVdS> Ubuntu One is now supported in Filelink - the option to upload large attachments to online storage services.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah - I played with it the other day - not sure I like it. The UI is a bit uninspiring too.
<popey> yeah, useful when sending large files
<TheOpenSourcerer> IRC is "ok" but twitter is very dull. Hotot is so much nicer and featured (in-line images, etc).
<christel> good morning lovelies
<MartijnVdS> howdy christel
<christel> how art thou? :)
<MartijnVdS> A bit.. runny (eww)
<christel> i say!
<MartijnVdS> Probably ate something bad.. or some bug I picked up in Frankfurt took a week to start working
<christel> damn those german bugs
 * christel hugs MartijnVdS 
<christel> get better and stuff!
<MartijnVdS> thanks :)
<jacobw> morning
<christel> what do you get someone for their 40th birthday?
<MartijnVdS> a cake with 40 candles
<christel> cake!
<christel> i'd probably eat it though and then there'd just be candles
<mungojerry> TheOpenSourcerer, used to use hotot, but i realised that since i rebuilt this pc in january, i've just gone to the twitter website instead.
<mungojerry> christel, edible candles?
<mungojerry> didn't i read recently that thunderbird wouldn't be gaining new features anymore, just security updates?
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<mungojerry> morning. lovelay day it is too
<brobostigon> morning mungojerry
<KungFuPanda> morning guys
<mungojerry> just realised i compltetly forgot to eat breakfast ..doh
<KungFuPanda> hi, anyone setup git server on ubuntu ?
<KungFuPanda> ubuntu 12.04
<mattt> KungFuPanda: a git server?
<KungFuPanda> ye
<KungFuPanda> while,we want to host our code on our own server,
<directhex> git+ssh is easy
<directhex> step 1: have a folder
<directhex> step 2: there is no step 2
<KungFuPanda> and we want to use git to manage it
<KungFuPanda> I followed this link, http://git-scm.com/book/en/Git-on-the-Server-Setting-Up-the-Server
<popey> bigcalm setup gitlab on his server, it's like github but your own private one
<popey> very nice
<KungFuPanda> but I am just confused about the "authorized_keys" part
 * bigcalm waddles in upon mention of his name
<KungFuPanda> here is the process I have done:
<KungFuPanda> 1. on our remote server, create a git user.
<KungFuPanda> 2. mkdir testproject,
<KungFuPanda> 3. git --bare init
<KungFuPanda> 4. on my local create a testproject, git init
<KungFuPanda> 5. on my local: git remote add origin git@gitserver:/home/git/testproject
<KungFuPanda> 6. on my local: git push origin master.
<KungFuPanda> 7 failed
<bigcalm> KungFuPanda: I followed this to the letter: http://blog.compunet.co.za/gitlab-installation-on-ubuntu-server-12-04/
<KungFuPanda> bigcalm: thank you so much, I will try this, thanks
<mattt> GEETLAB
<mattt> KungFuPanda: what issue are you having with the keys on that git-scm link?
<mattt> cuz like directhex said, this method is by far the most straightforward
<diplo> I expect it's permissions on the .ssh dir mattt, only thing that seems to trip up people at my work
<diplo> For KungFuPanda answer :)
<mattt> diplo: :)
<KungFuPanda> I do not understand about the authorized_keys part, so I do not setup any public keys under .ssh folder.
<mattt> KungFuPanda: it's not a hard requirement
<mattt> but then everyone has to use that shared password
<mattt> which is kinda dirty
<KungFuPanda> "Next, you need to add some developer SSH public keys to theÂ authorized_keysÂ file for that user.Â "  --- where I can get the public keys ?
<directhex> ask the developers to give you them
<KungFuPanda> shall I just create by myself ?
<directhex> i.e. they're in ~/.ssh/id_rsa.pub
<directhex> on the developers' own systems
<bigcalm> And it's easy to create new ones which you might assign to specific remote servers
<KungFuPanda> on my local, ~/.ssh/
<KungFuPanda> only know_hosts file
<KungFuPanda> "know_hosts" file
<bigcalm> Then create one :)
<bigcalm> ssh-keygen
<KungFuPanda> can window user create one as well ?
<mungojerry> with putty you can, but needs a slight modification
<KungFuPanda> ha, thanks a lot,
<Myrtti> what was the common recommended method of installing JRE nowadays?
<directhex> github has easy guides on ssh key management, iirc
<directhex> Myrtti, "use openjdk"
<Myrtti> directhex: not an option
<directhex> has make-jpkg been resurrected yet?
<mattt> java 8|
<davmor2> Morning all
<mattt> hi davmor2
<davmor2> mattt: morning
<mattt> davmor2: how you?
<davmor2> mattt: a bit like a headless chicken too much to do too little time :)
<davmor2> you?
<davmor2> bigcalm: you melted yet?
 * davmor2 prods czajkowski for not being here to prod and then prods her cause it's friday :P  Then realises how annoyed she'll be that she has had to scroll back for this :D
<mattt> davmor2: thankful it's friday
<mattt> and that the sun's out :)
<davmor2> mattt: indeed and I'm at work till 20:00 no sun for me
<mungojerry> you need an elbaorate system of mirrors davmor2
<diplo> davmor2: Do you think she bothers anymore, as in here it's only you who prods her :D
<mungojerry> aah prodogamy
<mungojerry> or is it monoprodogamy
<KungFuPanda> :-[, still confused, I had create a local id_rsa.pub for user "tester".
<KungFuPanda> then create a file "authorized_keys" under remote server .ssh folder
<KungFuPanda> copy paste "tester" id_rsa.pub to "authorized_keys" file.
<KungFuPanda> git remote add origin git@gitserver:/home/git/testproject
<KungFuPanda> git commit
<KungFuPanda> git push origin master
<davmor2> mungojerry: haha
<davmor2> diplo: someone has to annoy her or her life just isn't complete :)
<KungFuPanda> then I got :
<KungFuPanda> tester@gitserver's password:?
<KungFuPanda> do I need create a tester user on my gitserver ?
<diplo> hah davmor2. Have you two actually ever met yet ?
<davmor2> diplo: Yeap
<bigcalm> Surprised how long this radiator is giving out heat long after the boiler was turned off
<mattt> diplo: dude's in lurrrv
<mattt> bigcalm: you've got heat on today?
<bigcalm> mattt: yearly gas safety inspection with British Gas
<mattt> bigcalm: that'll do it :)
<diplo> heh mattt :P
<bigcalm> diplo: you found some luv? :)
<bigcalm> I miss all of the interesting gossip
<diplo> I think mattt's on about davmor2
<bigcalm> Don't make me load the screen irssi is on
<bigcalm> A costa coffee has appeared in town. I should have got me some while I was getting birthday cards this morning :S
<davmor2> diplo: I missed that till you highlighted my nick :)
<diplo> heh
<davmor2> mattt: I am with my wife she rock :)
<mungojerry> you are married to a boulder?
<mattt> davmor2: i'm only joking around
<mattt> davmor2: but words of wisdom, get rid of your irc logs
<diplo> mattt: Publicly available on the web, busted!
<diplo> :)
<mungojerry> get rid of everybody in the whole world bwahaha
<mungojerry> or at least the search engines
<christel> oh i am sure mrs davmor2 would agree that czajkowski is most pokeable, in public
<bigcalm> I wonder what would happen if I were to poke christel
<davmor2> mattt: Why? My wife knows what we are like she was at UDS and saw with her own two eyes :)
<mungojerry> i we talking about prodding or poking
<christel> bigcalm: depends whether you use something sharp or something blunt
<bigcalm> christel: blunt, I'm not going to stab you :P
<christel> oh good that's alright then
<christel> <3
 * bigcalm pokes christel
<christel> harder!
<christel> er, i .. hi
<bigcalm> Haha
<christel> i am out of coffee, this saddens me
 * bigcalm dccs some to christel
<bigcalm> Wow, do people still use dcc?
<directhex> yes, for coffee transmission
 * davmor2 prods christel with a lump hammer was that hard enough? :D
<bigcalm> Owie
<davmor2> bigcalm: I only touched her with it, I really wouldn't swing one at a person, let alone a person of the female persuasion :)
<gord> i think i just got some very slow spam that was sent from the 90s... has a bunch of "i want to give you $12.7 million!" then "The next series of Friends will be the last, David Schwimmer announced yesterday. He said: 'It's sad but enough is enough. We have all agreed this will be the final year.'"
<davmor2> gord: the 90's rang and wants it's mail back
<christel> bigcalm: apparently you do!
<bigcalm> :P
<mattt> davmor2: i'm just stirring things up, ignore me :)
<davmor2> mattt: oh is that what you were doing :)
<mattt> :P
<bigcalm> LUNCH!
<bigcalm> Lego Batman 2!
<davmor2> for lunch
<davmor2> bigcalm: we really need to talk about your diet
<bigcalm> I either eat or relax :D
<bigcalm> Toodles for now
 * mattt just had fish and chips
<mattt> wasn't very nice :(
<davmor2> mattt: then you got them from the wrong chippy
<mattt> davmor2: work canteen
<davmor2> definitely the wrong chippy
<christel> i once tried fish and chips from the indian up the road... that was odd
<mattt> i refuse to do that
<mattt> if they serve curry or spring rolls on the same menu
<mattt> then i'll skip :P
<mattt> which is exactly what i should have done today
<christel> hehe
<christel> the fish tasted of lemons only and the chips tasted of curry, it was very odd
<christel> http://i.imgur.com/X70yJ.jpg i did have a very tasty COD sandwich the other day mind
<KungFuPanda> finally got it works,  just I have to input password everytime do push or pull? anyway to avoid that ?
<KungFuPanda> more details: git user on remote server, I had copy local user "tester" id_rsa.pub to remote server "authorized_keys" file. now every time when "tester" do push or pull, the system will ask for git@remote password, anyway to avoid this ?
<christel> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/08/31/bacon_sarnie/ will we submit jono between a couple of slices of bread?
<KungFuPanda> "Agent admitted failure to sign using the key" this is the message I got, is it ssh-agent I should look at ?
<davmor2> christel: surely this is the ultimate in Bacon Sandwiches
<davmor2> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jonmasters/6317631242/
<christel> davmor2: https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/205287_10151101668708760_1715801763_n.jpg rump steak, cumberland, bacon, oyster mushrooms and gruyere on the left, rumpsteak, mushrooms, wholegrain mustard, bacon and stilton on the right!
<christel> davmor2: perfect! tell whomever owns that to submit it to the el reg comp! :D
<davmor2> eewww the mushrooms and stilton would put me off, but I like the fact that it like a bread cornish pasty :D
<christel> davmor2: haha
<mattt> christel: that looks delicious
<christel> OMNOM
 * davmor2 rereads mattt's comment ah missed the that first time
<christel> davmor2: ;)
<mungojerry> "400,000 apps in the Apple App Store have never been downloaded says report"
<popey> are they all fart apps?
<mungojerry> The latter even counted the number of flashlight apps and found that Apple iPhone users in need of a quick light have 1,899 choices.
<popey> i use my flashlight app quite a bit to annoy people
<mungojerry> this is the nature of the app store in general. only the top or promoted ones get noticed
<mungojerry> i use it to read the gas meter
<mungojerry> but i don't need 1900. i choose the best one
<popey> it has a thing that will strobe from 1hz to 20hz
<popey> which is fun
<mungojerry> s/best/most popular/
<mungojerry> s/annoy/cause seizures
<popey> oi aquarius when i click a link to a video hosted on u1, i get a stream of crap in my browser... http://ubuntuone.com/5P2MrQofbiEfFZkLk8bKF5
<popey> is that a mimetype issue or something?
<aquarius> popey, works perfectly for me, having just clicked on it
<popey> which browser?
<aquarius> Firefox.
<popey> hmm, chrome
<aquarius> Which browser do you have which is doing it wrong? :)
<popey> also, wget
<popey> i dont want a file on my filesystem called 5P2MrQofbiEfFZkLk8bKF5
<aquarius> that's a wget bug
<SuperMatt> popey: could you get this idea in the hands of the team in charge of installers? http://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/z3s57/community_contest_wallpapers_landed_in_ubuntu_1210/c61f3ah
<aquarius> it ignores content-disposition headers. Not our fault :)
<gord> wget behaviour for years, annoys me
<gord> not just with u1
<popey> SuperMatt, file a bug / patches welcome etc
<SuperMatt> but it something that's so awesome it should be pushed up to the top of the list!
 * SuperMatt goes to file a bug
<aquarius> gord, indeed. It frustrates us, too :)
<SuperMatt> oh, I can't report a bug against ubiquity
<Azelphur> anyone here happen to know their way around heimdall?
<Azelphur> or a good site for getting sim unlock codes :p
<popey> SuperMatt, why?
<SuperMatt> hang on, let me get it back up
<SuperMatt> popey: over at launchpad.net/ubiquity, Report a bug is greyed out
<popey> you logged in?
<davmor2> SuperMatt: ubuntu-bug ubiquity?
<SuperMatt> popey: I am now and it still doesn't work, gonna give davmor2's idea a try
<SuperMatt> that seems to be working now
<SuperMatt> aaah, seems I need to raise the bug against the package, not to the team
<SuperMatt> *shakes fist at launchpad usability*
<Azelphur> anyone recommend a good online sim unlocking service?
<davmor2> night all
<christel> nn davmorius! <3
<davmor2> Hello from the Samsung s3
<christel> hello on the samsung s3!
<christel> i am dying from a food overdose
<popey> hello from the lounge
<christel> hello in the lounge!
<davmor2> Hello popey lounge
<davmor2> Irc isn't bad on this to be fair
<soreau> hello from wayland
<mattt> davmor2: oooh, how you like ?
<davmor2> There's always one
<davmor2> mattt not bad at all.
<davmor2> The screen is amazing
<davmor2> Oh well I'm off
#ubuntu-uk 2012-09-01
<locodir-user> Wub wub
<MartijnVdS> \o
<locodir-user> o/
<soreau> \o.
<jacobw> morning
<christel> good morning pretties :)
<AlanBell> morning all
 * AlanBell wonders off to find breakfast
<christel> tis in my kitchen
<jacobw> \o/ washing machine delivered
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<MartijnVdS> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS
 * MartijnVdS soldered a wire into a MR3220 wifi router
<MartijnVdS> and now it has a 1wire bus with a thermometer on it \o/
<MartijnVdS> it works!
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: :)
<MartijnVdS> new doctor tonight \o/
<MartijnVdS> well
<MartijnVdS> new episode of current doctor
<brobostigon> yep.
<MartijnVdS> but you know what I mean
 * penguin42 drops pin
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: watch out, f1 cars :)
<penguin42> ah, need bigger pins
 * brobostigon offers penguin42 a box of nails.
<MartijnVdS> But.. F1!
<oimon> anyone else get the problem where shotwell doesn't show thumbnails of photos it's about to import?, just shows noentry sign?
<oimon> shotwell 0.12.3 on 12.04
<MartijnVdS> oimon: RAW photos/
<oimon> jpegs
<MartijnVdS> it does that for me for .cr2s
<MartijnVdS> I thought it was because cr2s are hard to parse
<oimon> used to work, i'm sure
<oimon> MartijnVdS: probably related: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libgphoto2/+bug/986676/comments/10
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 986676 in libgphoto2 (Ubuntu) "Shotwell does not show thumbnails for images on "Mass Storage Camera"" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<MartijnVdS> ah yes
<MartijnVdS> I put my CF card in my CF reader, so "Mass Storage" camera
<penguin42> possibly - but be careful; some of the photo problems can be camera-specific - especially if it's related to raw
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: it also happens on SD from my other camera (with jpg)
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: so I think it might be that bug
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: In which case I'm not sure the upstream one that's linked to is correct
<dwatkins> wow, sipdroid is awful
<dwatkins> mind you, sipgate's own client isn't much better, sadly
<Azelphur> dwatkins: you know android has built in SIP support right?
<dwatkins> Azelphur: no, I did not - how do I get to the configuration?
 * dwatkins is running CM7
<Azelphur> Open the dialer, press menu, settings, scroll to the bottom and you'll find "Internet call settings"
<Azelphur> although CM7 is a bit old, I'm not sure if it was in android on that version
<dwatkins> fantastic, thanks
<dwatkins> ah ok, perhaps yeah
<Azelphur> what phone you got?
<dwatkins> HTC Desire HD (aka Ace)
<Azelphur> is there not a newer CM build for that?
<dwatkins> not that I've seen, I think I have either the most recent, or pretty much the most recent, 7.2
<dwatkins> no internet call settings option in the dialler preferences, sadly
<Azelphur> there should be unofficial prebuilds
<Azelphur> like my HTC Desire Z didn't have a released CM10, but I was running it anyway
<dwatkins> yeah, I havn't looked into it in a while - when I installed this, CM 7.1 was quite new (I was wrong, it's not 7.2)
<Azelphur> dwatkins: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1778202 looks good and seems to not have any critical bugs
<Azelphur> tis a cm10 prerelease :)
<dwatkins> ah yes, I just found a thread about CM9 also: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1754382
<dwatkins> cheers Azelphur, will look into these
<Azelphur> that's an older version of android and has more broken features :P
<Azelphur> dwatkins: you know about nandroid right?
<Azelphur> and titanium backup
<dwatkins> yeah, I think I used them before for backups
<Azelphur> when you upgrade from cm7 to 10, you'll most likely need to do a full wipe
<dwatkins> fair enough, makes sense
<Azelphur> so use titanium to restore any apps
<Azelphur> and take a full nandroid backup just in case it doesn't work so you can rollback
<dwatkins> I assume ROM manager just backs up the OS.
<Azelphur> yea if you do it with rom manager it will ask you if you want to take a backup, then it'll do a nandroid backup
<Azelphur> be careful not to miss it, it's off by default
<dwatkins> aha cool
<dwatkins> Havn't done one for a couple weeks, actually.
<Azelphur> hehe :)
<Azelphur> I had my Desire Z running CM10 for a long time was quite nice albeit a little quirky
<dwatkins> cheers for reminding me :)
<Azelphur> yw :)
<Azelphur> the builtin sip client uses a lot less battery than sipdroid/csipsimple from what I've seen
<Azelphur> so should be an improvement
<dwatkins> It always makes me smile that the text-based bootloader uses lots of bright colours, probably because I grew up with a BBC Micro.
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> I bit the bullet and upgraded a few days ago though, got me a Galaxy S3 and a Nexus 7, https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/2012/August/IMG_20120831_205728.jpg
<Azelphur> sold my old HTC Desire Z
<dwatkins> hmm, no nandroid option in the backup, it's just going ahead
<dutchie> i don't see the point in rooting my nexus 7
<dwatkins> very nice, I didn't know CM had already been ported to the NExus 7.
<Azelphur> dwatkins: the backup option is nandroid, they are synonimous :)
<dwatkins> Azelphur: aha thanks
<Azelphur> dutchie: I wanted it for DataSync so I can sync appdata between the two
<Azelphur> although as of yet the only thing I achieved was wiping my save game \o/
<dutchie> Azelphur: haha
<kvarley> I want an easy to use secure firewall that will let me restrict access to a set of IP addresses on several different ports. Which applications can do that? I'm am not running an X server on the machine it is destined for
<brobostigon> why not just use the inbuilt kernel iptables, and use ufw to configure it ?
<brobostigon> i mean, iptables is alrady there, builtin.
<MartijnVdS> iptables is good, some apps have internal controls as well
<MartijnVdS> but iptables is what you want :)
<dwatkins> I hear good things about ipcop, but that's probably for booting a dedicated machine from.
<kvarley> brobostigon: I'll check that out, thanks :) I'm setting up an invite-only XMPP network you see so I need the added security :)
<brobostigon> kvarley: ah, interesting, :)
<Azelphur> trying to use ffmpeg to convert a youtube mp4 to mp3 and it's not happy with me. Any ideas? http://pastebin.com/yJDh3x1n
<kvarley> Azelphur: Try: ffmpeg -i video.mp4 -vn acodec libmp3lame -ac 2 -ab 256k -ar 48000 audio.mp3
<kvarley> Azelphur: Or just use VLC to do it :P
<Azelphur> kvarley: nope http://pastebin.com/mXiJw66P :(
<Azelphur> kvarley: how do you do that? didn't know vlc could do it
<kvarley> Azelphur: Yeah, it has been able to do it for ages! :) Open VLC, click on "Media" from the menu, then select the "Convert / Save ..." option
<Azelphur> kvarley: ah, I have a lot to convert would prefer to do it from the command line
<kvarley> Azelphur: Do you have lame installed?
<kvarley> sudo apt-get install libavcodec-extra-53
<Azelphur> nope, installing it now :P
<Azelphur> yay now it's working :)
<jacobw> evening
<christel> hiya jacobw :)
<penguin42> anyone know what the 'right' way to add an option to something started by upstart is - is it really to edit /etc/init/whatever?
<dutchie> penguin42: /etc/default/whatever
<dutchie> i believe
<penguin42> dutchie: The init script doesn't seem to read it
<dutchie> specifying which package may help :)
<penguin42> tgt
<penguin42> dutchie: It just has an exec tgtd   - it then also runs as a post-starta /usr/sbin/tgt-admin -e   which is supposed to read stuff from tgt's config files but the docs for those only seem to specify some of the stuff you can do on the command lines
<dutchie> odd :/ afraid i'm not hugely familiar with it, hopefully someone else is
 * penguin42 is trying to set up iscsi with multiple portals and it's far from obvious
<Myrtti> â¥ Wolfram Alpha
<Azelphur> you know it's bad when you've done 30GB of youtube in one day
<penguin42> Azelphur: what?
<Azelphur> penguin42: I've downloaded 30GB of youtube content today, haha
<penguin42> Azelphur: No, I mean what magical youtube content have you found that's worth downloading 60GB of
<Azelphur> http://www.youtube.com/user/goingquantum
<ali1234> wubwubwub
<Azelphur> wub indeed.
<Azelphur> downloading all of the podcasts and mp3ing them
<penguin42> hth is that 60GB just for an audio with a still image - oh it'll be the silly visualisations ?
<ali1234> well there is 58 episodes
<ali1234> eash one an hour long
<penguin42> but an hour of audio shouldn't take a GB
<ali1234> no, but an hour of 1080p is much more than 1 GB
<Azelphur> indeed
<Azelphur> penguin42: 30GB not 60
<penguin42> I only looked at the start of that - there was very little movement, so that should encode to very little for the video
<ali1234> Azelphur: did you see that 4K TV on slashdot today? you can buy it from korea...
 * penguin42 wants a 4K monitor - a nice small 24" one
<ali1234> panasonic has a 20" ne according to the story
<Azelphur> ali1234: haha I heard about 4k tv's before, they do sound awesome
<bigcalm> Good evening slackers :)
<Azelphur> and yea I heard about 20", that sounds terrible
<Azelphur> 4k at 20" would just be bad
<penguin42> bigcalm: Good evening fellow slacker
<bigcalm> :D
<bigcalm> I'm looking to a wifi router with USB port that will run openwrt. There seem to be lots, but finding a decent one is slow going
<bigcalm> Anybody with thoughts on TP-Link?
<ali1234> when it comes to openwrt the only thing that really matters is the core chipset
<bigcalm> Fugley, but seems to be supported: http://www.amazon.co.uk/TL-WR2543ND-450Mbps-Dual-Band-Wireless-Gigabit/dp/B006B3BM9I/
<directhex> i have a tp-link wifi stick
<directhex> it works
<bigcalm> Anybody bought from WAE+ ?
<bigcalm> Now looking at the Netgear WNDR3800
<bigcalm> Mixed reviews. will pay extra and buy from pixmania
<ali1234> Azelphur: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQWolompWT8
<Azelphur> ali1234: haha :D
<Azelphur> that looks fun, so he uploads new content every day?
<ali1234> you need to sub that guy, he is amazing
<Azelphur> subbing \o/
<ali1234> not just dubstep. he does pretty much every kind of music
<Azelphur> ah
<Azelphur> do you like dubstep?
<ali1234> "gravy and toast" is my favourite
<Azelphur> hehe
<penguin42> Azelphur: How did your windows-tax refund go?
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTzTSbc268c
<Azelphur> penguin42: they told me to contact lenovo, I gave up at that point
<penguin42> Azelphur: Bah!
<ali1234> dubstep is ok. i prefer the less wubby kind though.
<Azelphur> ali1234: hehe
<penguin42> Azelphur: Pity, I started thinking; if it was possible for WIndows, people should start doing it with Mac
<Azelphur> penguin42: rofl
<penguin42> Azelphur: Well, it would be interesting - Apple claimed some of the features on their mobiles were worth $100/device
<Azelphur> haha
#ubuntu-uk 2012-09-02
<lee_> hello.Can i install software using command 'sudo sh xxx.run' and specify it's owner?
<MartijnVdS> lee_: depends on the software
<MartijnVdS> lee_: sudo means you do it as root
<MartijnVdS> lee_: you could use "sudo -u username sh xxx.run" to run the installer as that specific user
<AlanBell> morning all
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: morning
<AlanBell> Boccia today
<MartijnVdS> Boccia?
<MartijnVdS> F1 today!
<AlanBell> what time does F1 start?
<MartijnVdS> 12:10 on your side of the water :)
<MartijnVdS> 13:10 on my side
<AlanBell> I might catch the finish
<daubers> o/
<MartijnVdS> \o
<kvarley> Can anybody point me in the direction of a good IP Tables tutorial/resource? I'm looking to block all traffic except for certain IP addresses on certain ports.
<kvarley> Nvm, help.ubuntu.com knows all :)
<christel> good morning
<kvarley> Can anybody recommend a reasonably priced VPS host in the UK that will run Ubuntu Server as an encrypted install?
<MartijnVdS> encrypted install?
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: Yeah the way when you install Ubuntu on a PC you can encrypt the home directory
<kvarley> I've found one but they would charge for it
<MartijnVdS> also.. you give them the key, so encrypting would be a bit useless
<kvarley> true
<dutchie> morning
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
<brobostigon> o/ MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> Lots of excitement in Spa :)
<brobostigon> smash,
<kvarley> I'm using gufw as my firewall and it seems to be blocking connections even though I have set specific rules
<kvarley> I have set incoming traffic to deny but then specified certain IP addresses and ports to be allowed
<kvarley> When I allow incoming traffic I can connect so my rules don't seem to be working
<zleap> what about your router, is that blocking stuff that gufw is allowing
<kvarley> zleap: I'm connecting from a machine on the same subnet on the lan so it shouldn't be an issue
<kvarley> zleap: My bad, mistyped one number which knocked the rule out lol
<zleap> ah np
<zleap> easy done that
<DJones> Does anybody here use google sites for a small business website, just wondering how easy they are to set up and manage
<penguin42> DJones: I've been kind of employed by a company that did, from an endusers point of view it worked well
<penguin42> DJones: Oh actually, that was mail/etc probably not the website
<DJones> Seems fairly easy to use for basic websites from what I can see anyway
<Azelphur> I keep on having issues with nautilus and gedit where they exhibit weird keyboard related behaviour. Gedit won't show a text cursor so I have no idea where I'm typing, and nautilus won't let me type to select a folder
<Azelphur> It almost seems like they are refusing to focus properly, I have to restart them to get the problem to go away
<kvarley> Does anybody here know how I can view ejabberd error logs? I can't seem to connect to my ejabberd server with encryption required on my client but I can't see any error messsages
 * BigRedS assumes you've already looked for /var/log/ejabberd
<brobostigon> can you change to what detail it logs ?
<MartijnVdS> sigh
<MartijnVdS> is focus-follows-mouse forbidden now?
<MartijnVdS> in unity?
<MartijnVdS> I can unset "click to focus" but it won't stick :(
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: How would the menus work in focus follows mouse?
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: Menus? What are those?
<penguin42> BigRedS: Not well is the answer
<penguin42> BigRedS: It kind of works but is touchy, you can get around it with using F10 to bring up current menu
<BigRedS> haha, that's why I stopped looking for focus-follows-mouse almost as soon as I started
<MartijnVdS> just remove the appmenu-gtk{,3} packages
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: See bug 674138 and there seem to be some people also interested https://launchpad.net/~focus-follows-mouse
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 674138 in Unity ""Global" appmenu breaks sloppy focus" [Low,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/674138
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: It worked until yesterday, then I upgraded my quantal machine
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: now it's b0rken
<MartijnVdS> last mail on that team mailing list is almost a year old
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Ah oh, I didn't realise you meant it had completely broken
<MartijnVdS> and setting it in ccsm doesn't stick :(
<MartijnVdS> lots of bugs about "HUD" focus..
<MartijnVdS> I don't understand the HUD though... but that might be because I never use menus anywya
<BigRedS> I was just wondering if anyone has got into the habit of using the hud
<BigRedS> It keeps breaking terminator's alt+arrow-key for me so I've disabled it
<BigRedS> and I've never thought "Hm, wonder if it's worth re-enabling"
<mattt> evening all
<mattt> wow, where has the day gone
<christel> hiya mattt :)
<mattt> christel: hey you
<christel> hows tricks?
<kvarley> Does anybody know how DNS SRV records work?
<RaycisCharles> MartijnVdS: did you see Van Persie's hat-trick against the Saints?
<RaycisCharles> kvarley: yes...an application will register a SRV record in your DNS zone. Clients which query DNS for that service will know which node hosts the service.
<RaycisCharles> In a nutshell.
<RaycisCharles> For anything further, consult Google.
<MartijnVdS> RaycisCharles: I have no idea.. I don't watch football.
<MartijnVdS> RaycisCharles: sports are much more fun to DO than to watch
<kvarley> I have a subdomain that has an A record pointing to the IP of my server. Then I have a _xmpp-client as a SRV record to the subdomain but it still won't let me connect.
<BigRedS> What's 'it'? My Jabber client connects to the IP at the end of the A record of the domain part of my username
<kvarley> BigRedS: Pidgin won't let me connect to the WAN IP of the server (obviously from another WAN IP)
<BigRedS> why not? Can you telnet to it on the relevant port?
<kvarley> BigRedS: So I don't need SRV records specifically for this service so long as the ports are open?
<BigRedS> however your client finds the XMPP server you need to have the ports open so that traffic from the client can get to the server
<BigRedS> you need SRV records if your client requires them, pidgin doesn't appear to
<davmor2> hello all
<BigRedS> Good morning!
<AlanBell> morning BigRedS
<BigRedS> aha, good morning!
<BigRedS> I come with a DNS problem :)
<BigRedS> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1182238/
<BigRedS> that output makes no sense to me, does it to anyone else?
<BigRedS> ns0 and ns1.avi.co are my own nameservers, two VPSs running Bind
<AlanBell> standard question before I read it carefully, is there anything in a /etc/hosts file that shouldn't be there?
<BigRedS> nope
<BigRedS> resolv.conf is looked after by n-m
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1182246/
<BigRedS> hmm
<BigRedS> Can you try the same for 'nickvaughan.org' please? That's what triggered this
<BigRedS> ah, I'm wondering if it's about DNS falling back on TCP where UDP's not allowed, I've a feeling neither of those hosts have much in the way of UDP permitted
<BigRedS> there's been a few people have problems with resolving names that I'm authoritative for, and thinking now it's only come up since ns0 ended up behind a different router
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1182256/
<BigRedS> Ta! I think I'll take this up with the Keeper Of The Routers tomorrow :)
<AlanBell> :)
<bigcalm> Hi peeps :)
<mgdm> Hi
<christel> heya bigcalm :)
<bigcalm> Evening mgdm
<bigcalm> Howdy christel :D
<bigcalm> What are you kids up to?
<christel> hullu m'dear
<christel> i am crushing someones hope of employment -- you?
<bigcalm> \o/ life sucks like that :|
<mgdm> christel: oh dear
<bigcalm> I'm trying to put off going to bed because then it will be work that much sooner
<christel> what sucks? i love it :D
<bigcalm> Sadist :P
<bigcalm> Which reminds me to check a certain site
<BigRedS> A sadism one?
<bigcalm> BigRedS: feels like it at time
<bigcalm> Facebook
<BigRedS> haha
<christel> bigcalm: haha nah, it's not my fault that they're rubbish :P
<bigcalm> That would hamper their ability to work
<christel> indeed
<bigcalm> Touch bored. What shall I do?
<BigRedS> I can send you my todo list if you like? :)
<bigcalm> I was hoping for something fun :P
<BigRedS> ah, nothing matching that description on it I'm afraid
<bigcalm> I have 116 SVN repos to move to GIT. FML
<BigRedS> just stick the appropriate bash aliases in everyone's .bashrc
<mgdm> bigcalm: it's not actually tat bad
<bigcalm> mgdm: I've moved 3 so far
<bigcalm> Or 5, small number any way
<bigcalm> It's just slow
<bigcalm> But some sites have been deployed using SVN (not my idea), which is going to be interesting getting git onto said servers and use deploy keys
<bigcalm> Oh, and there's Trac that needs setting up again as well
 * bigcalm spends a bit of time doing that :)
<bigcalm> Sleep now
<ali1234> can mobile me/icloud send email from different addresses?
<ali1234> no, it can't. lame
#ubuntu-uk 2013-08-26
<Myrtti> morn
<MartijnVdS> \o
<dwatkins> o/ wotcher
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<brobostigon> is it possible to create a wifi hotspot on my phone, that is undetectable on the mobile network side of the system?
<MartijnVdS> I think the only thing they can use to detect it is the user-agent of the browser?
<MartijnVdS> which is not allowed in .nl (yay net neutrality rules)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I put a Vodafone payg sim in a "mifi"-like device (which is basically the same) and it's still working fine
<brobostigon> so for example. they cant detect from where the packets have came from, ie not the phone itself, ?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: only by looking inside the packets -- maybe MTU, and certainly HTTP User-Agent
<MartijnVdS> also, the amount of data use over time is different for phones vs pcs
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: well you work for a telephone company, you should probably know. so if i tether my tablet, it will still show as normal android, that wouldnt make any difference.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I work for an internet company, the mobile network isn't "ours"
<MartijnVdS> All we do is "You've used >4GB; down to 64kbps with you!"
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ah, ok sorry.
<brobostigon> ouchie.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: and like I said, Dutch ISPs (including mobile internet) aren't allowed to allow/disallow traffic, or even QoS it without good (i.e. acute congestion) reasons
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: interesting, i dont know what the situation is here to be honest.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: with the dirt filter proposals, probably much worse :(
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: oh dear :(
<MartijnVdS> The only people trying that idea here are from the strict christian party
<MartijnVdS> i.e. nuts
<MartijnVdS> ("God didn't want us to watch porn" "Don't watch it then" "But it tempts us.")
<brobostigon> like the right wing american side of it, who are also very strict christians.
<brobostigon> lol.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: look up the Dutch Reformed church
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: sounds dodgy from the name already.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reformed_Political_Party
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: their website blanks out on Sundays
<brobostigon> lol.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_Belt_(Netherlands)
<brobostigon> sounds like the one in america, just not as bad, where i am a humanist would probably be lynched.
<brobostigon> i as a *
<Myrtti> I'm waiting for an English writeup on the decision the High Court of Finland made today about child porn censorship and freedom of speech
<Myrtti> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lapsiporno.info
<dwatkins> so, another failure of a government to implement a ban on things that should be banned whilst allowing people to see things they have every right to see?
<Myrtti> something like that
<Myrtti> in essence the decision is that blocking is ok, and censorship is ok too, and sucks to be you, shush.
<Myrtti> they might go and appeal to the European Human Rights court
<brobostigon> like cameron's new impossible to implement pet project.
<dwatkins> brobostigon: exactly what I was thinking
<brobostigon> dwatkins: it seems either of two possiblities, either he hasnt taken advice and has no clue on the subject, or just has plain no clue.
<brobostigon> or he did get advice, and choose to ignore it.
<Myrtti> I vote for the latter
<brobostigon> agreed.
<Myrtti> because WHY WON'T ANYONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN
<dwatkins> brobostigon: the fact he made people go in and destroy the Guardian's hard drives demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of how computers and networks work.
<dwatkins> so perhaps both
<dwatkins> Seeing as he's the person in charge, he probably has easy access to people who do understand, but chooses (out of ignorance, perhaps) to ignore them.
<brobostigon> Myrtti: as MartijnVdS said earlier, such things get said in the biblebelt in the us, like he said does in the netherlands.
<Myrtti> I doubt he as a politician made the direct order to have someone distroy the harddrives
<brobostigon> dwatkins: or he is just plain dim?
<Myrtti> just waved his hand in exasperation and said "Why can't anyone make them to shut up"
<Myrtti> and someone took the initiative
<dwatkins> brobostigon: I think all of this demonstrates that, at least in terms of his understanding of technology, you are right
<Myrtti> he as a politician is probably well aware of the implications of him ordering someone to do it
<Myrtti> so they've got someone else who is not elected to their position to blame if things go totally pearshaped
<brobostigon> dwatkins: agreed yes, it reminds me of several jokes recently in private eye that demonstrate it very well.
<brobostigon> a civil servant probably, yes.
<Myrtti> I've seen this movie so many times played out in the parliaments of different countries, I know Cameron isn't going to get and hasn't gotten any kind of blame for it
<popey> Morning
<dwatkins> Myrtti: sadly, yes - it just demonstrates that most of the people who make the decisions fail to understand technology
<Myrtti> and to be honest, I'm not even sure that in this particular case Cameron is to be blamed in any way - I'm not convinced the politicians in the end had anything to do with it. In the end - atleast in Finland - most of the executive civil servants stay in their jobs no matter who's elected politically
<popey> bigcalm: hows the flashing going?
<Myrtti> it's either politicians silent agreement on letting civil servants do their job, ignorance on what are their jobs, or in the other end of the spectrum making clear statements on what they're not allowed to due because freedom of speech etc.
<Myrtti> and making policies on which law outruns the other
<Myrtti> sorry, getting ranty
<dwatkins> Myrtti: I assume there are people lobbying to make laws like the one about banning certain websites in the UK, they probably don't understand the technology is prone to failure
<Myrtti> yeah, Pirate Bay is blocked by some ISP's in both Finland and UK, and bypassing it is so simple even a 5yo can do it
<popey> hasstephenelopbeenfiredyet.com
 * popey tickles bigcalm 
<bigcalm> Good morning peep :)
<popey> :D
<bigcalm> +s
<bigcalm> Terribly lax of me
<bigcalm> My attention is elsewhere right now
<popey> outrage
<bigcalm> :P
<bigcalm> phablet-flash cdimage-touch -b
 * bigcalm goes for breakfast
<popey> bigcalm: be brave, get the latest image with "phablet-flash cdimage-touch -b --pending" :D
<bigcalm> Too late
<popey> heh
<popey> the --pending image hasn't been fully tested, so best not to really
<bigcalm> This is going to take a lot of getting used to
<bigcalm> Keyboard has appeared and I'm not sure how to get rid of it
<bigcalm> Ah, swipe down
<bigcalm> <bigcalm> Wow, the phone lags horribly with 2 apps running
<bigcalm> <bigcalm> Can I close apps?
<bigcalm> None of the UI is intuitive :(
 * dwatkins felt this way about Unity :-/
<bigcalm> But then, neither is iOS. To me at least
<dwatkins> does Ubuntu phone have a home button?
<popey> it doesn't rely on hardware buttons
<bigcalm> No. swipe the left hand edge to get the launcher and tap the ubuntu logo to get the "home"
<popey> bigcalm: patience
<dwatkins> how many buttons does it expect there to be? This will define what an Ubuntu phone is, like the way an iPhone has one, and most Android phones have 4 on screen, or in hardware with older models.
<bigcalm> popey: lacking :)
<popey> dwatkins: none
<dwatkins> popey: how many are there normally?
<popey> dwatkins: volume and power, that's all
<popey> we expect none
<popey> dunno how else to say it
<dwatkins> I mean on screen, like with recent Android
<popey>  figlet none
<popey> â»
<dwatkins> hehe, fair enough
<popey> swipe from left to pull in launcher, pull fully in from left to go to "home"
<popey> pull from right to switch running applications
<popey> pull from bottom to reveal toolbar
<popey> pull from top to reveal indicators
<popey> that's it, there are four edges you can swipe from, and that's it
<popey> bigcalm: sometimes there's a runaway process which causes lag, not multiple apps
 * mgdm invents an octagonal tablet to have more edges
<popey> heh
<popey> bigcalm: adb shell, run top. see what's eating cpu
<popey> my money is on ueventd
<bigcalm> popey: okay, ta
<bigcalm> mgdm: I'm surprised that BSG didn't have those
<mgdm> heh
 * bigcalm shakes fist at weird lack of booting
<bigcalm> Had to go in via the boot loader screen
<SuperEngineer> Doctor Who at the Proms time folks
<daftykins> yaaaawn
<SuperEngineer> :( boohiss2u
<dwatkins> SuperEngineer: which one?
 * bigcalm has returned!
<dwatkins> SuperEngineer: this one's great - "What happened to your hair?!" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ON5uV83k6wE
<SuperEngineer> nope
<DJones> Damm, watching Doctor Who at the Proms, why do I want to see a line of Cybermen doing Riverdance
<penguin42> DJones: That's what would have happened if the Cyberman had taken over Ireland
<moreati> I sense an unscraped barrel here, how about daleks on ice?
<DJones> Daleks can fly so I don't think that would work too well, maybe paint them red and have the Red Dalek Arrows
<zleap> lol
<DJones> Maybe not something for the tv series, but could be quite funny for Comic Relief
<zleap> suggest it
<zleap> i am sure they are up for ideas
<DJones> Was just looking to see if they had a contact email address
<popey> i went to the BFI on Saturday to see two episodes of Dr Who
<popey> and there was a panel discussion about 9th doctor.
<popey> was fun
<SuperEngineer> My Christmas gift wish.. Dr. Who lands in an episode of Big Bang Theory ;)
<ali1234> Azelphur: http://hackaday.com/2013/03/18/hack-removes-firmware-crippling-from-nvidia-graphics-card/
<ali1234> isn't that the problem you had?
<Azelphur> ali1234: yup
<ali1234> specifically he turned a GTX690 into a quadro card to make triple monitor work
<Azelphur> nvidia = assholes, tl;dr
<ali1234> well, get your soldering iron out
<Azelphur> I unfortunately do not have a 690
<Azelphur> I'm probably going to the greener AMD pastures for everything, fed up with Intel and nvidia firmware crippling.
<ali1234> yeah but with AMD you just have to suffer constant driver bugs instead
<Azelphur> yea, I'm hoping the situation is usable now
<ali1234> do you still have all those 5870 cards?
<Azelphur> nope
<ali1234> what are they equivalent to, in terms of gaming? any idea?
<Azelphur> ali1234: not too sure, probably an older nvidia card like a 4 series
 * Azelphur shrugs
<ali1234> but a good one though?
<ali1234> like 480?
<Azelphur> think so, probably best to look up the benchmarks
 * AlanBell is runing xmir again
<daftykins> it lives?
<AlanBell> seems to work, not tried dual screen yet, will do tomorrow
<AlanBell> apparently it basically functions with dual screen which is very impressive
<AlanBell> heh, the input always on thing is *nasty*
<AlanBell> switch to a vtty and stuff you type there is also typed in X
<AlanBell> suspend and resume works
<daftykins> ;/
<penguin42> AlanBell: How about something like x11vnc or anything else that shares the screen ?
#ubuntu-uk 2013-08-27
<MooDoo> morning all
<dwatkins> greetings
<MartijnVdS> hello
<MooDoo> :D
<DJones> Not wanting to wish the days away, but roll on tomorrow, new tablet time
<twager> Anyone tell me if a 3g phone will automatically connect to 2g if it cannot find a 3g signal ?
<DJones> As far as I know it should do, should pick the best connection, dropping down until as a last resort it starts chucking carrier pidgeons out as though the phone was a magicians top hat
<DJones> Although if its a Blackberry, it probably starts with the pidgeon and drops down to postal service
<twager> DJones,  Thanks  will give it a whirl...It is an Orange Sanfran dut I have put cyanogenmod on it.
<AlanBell> morning all
<ikonia> good morning AlanBell
<MooDoo> morning
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<mungbean> did anyone watch dragons den?
<mungbean> the fella trying to flog a copy of the yubikey
<SuperMatt> do what now?
<mungbean> what i said
<dwatkins> mungbean: this? http://www.yubico.com/products/yubikey-hardware/
<mungbean> the fella was trying to sell his product which was a copy
<SuperMatt> how much of a copy?
<dwatkins> oh dear, this program is painful to watch
<mungbean> he came for a job interview last week :P
<dwatkins> oh, sorry, I havn't got that far yet, I'm still watching the rather unfortunate fashion magazine presentation
<mungbean> think it was after, interspersed witha toilet flush thing
<popey> http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/aladdin-key-to-remember-open-source-hardware
<popey> thats the thing that was on dragons den
<dwatkins> interesting idea, but it does sound like a derivation of the yubikey
<AlanBell> no, it isn't
<AlanBell> no cryptography involved, not a one time keypad
<dwatkins> oh ok, how so?
<AlanBell> that thing is just a keyboard sequence
<popey> mungbean: http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/aladdin-key-to-remember-open-source-hardware
<DJones> With the UBuntu images for Nexus 7's, do they allow you to dual boot ubuntu & android or does Ubuntu fully replace Android
<popey> we dont support dual boot
<popey> but it is possible
<popey> http://barrenfrozenwasteland.com/2013/03/dual-booting-android-and-ubuntu-touch-on-the-nexus-7/
<popey> from marxjohnson
<DJones> Thanks
 * bigcalm is glad to be part of stuff in testing once more
<bigcalm> Though it's frustrating when functionality that you want isn't ready yet :)
<popey> heh
<bigcalm> Getting used to how QML works is difficult for me
<bigcalm> Seems that file names play a big role in things working correctly
<Laney> wonder how long my money is going to take to come back through the tubes from paypal
<popey> mine already arrived
<daftykins> naturally they saw Laney's and said - hey this is a patient guy, we'll just hold onto this...
<Laney> maybe they reinvested it on the 1330 at huntingdon for me
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> a hors with your name on
<daftykins> horse
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<daftykins> hey brobostigon
<brobostigon> hey daftykins
<penguin42> is it just me...the Register causing Firefox hangs?
<penguin42> plugin-container at 117%
<gordonjcp> adblock
<SuperMatt> I've removed add-block now
<SuperMatt> instead, I just have a ninja profile with adblock installed
<SuperMatt> I don't know why I spelt adblock so funny the first time around
<daftykins> :D
<gordonjcp> and, no, plugin-container isn't even running for me
<Guest77088> popey: yes, one of those guys
<mungbean> from the indiegogo page
<bigcalm> andatche: please sort out your connection :)
<mgdm> bigcalm: /ignore andatche joins parts quits
<bigcalm> mgdm: I could...
<andatche> znc issue, sorry
 * andatche fixed now
<Myrtti> I was getting worried ;-)
<daftykins> worried we might have to put him down?
<mungbean_> oh great. some numpty has signed up with insurance companies with my email address.
<mungbean_> cue a zillion quotes
<daftykins> ;/
<Laney> might be a good samaritan trying to save you some cash
<penguin42> mungbean_: "To be, or not to be...."
<mungbean_> my names not sarah though
<daftykins> i keep discovering people with my surname across the US because for some reason they keep signing up my "<firstinitial><surname>@gmail.com" to things ;/
<mgdm> I have the same problem, due to gmail's bizarre handling of . in the local part
<mgdm> but then, I don't use gmail as my primary email, so it's not actually that much of an issue
<penguin42> daftykins: There are another couple of people with the same name as me at work (big company) - most people forget to use the middle initial to distinguish us
<daftykins> haha, ouch
<daftykins> firstname.x.surname@ ?
<daftykins> seems a bit of a bad choice of policy
<penguin42> daftykins: we've each got multiple email addresses, and actually it's mostly people using the address book to look up by name
<daftykins> reminds me of those pesky married people changing theirs when working in IT :D
<mgdm> well it's either that or firstname.surname2@whatever.com...
<mungbean_> i have first initial sruname @ gmail
<mungbean_> bad move
<mungbean_> theres a lot of fbloggs out there
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> mungbean_: ones in america started to try and ask me for my family tree up to the 'Mayflower' ;/
<mungbean_> i get invited to a lot of job interviews, and family gaterhings
<bigcalm> Good to be popular
<mungbean_> if my name was shanice
<mgdm> Not just at weekends, you mean?
<daftykins> i got asked if i'd tutor someones kid once
<daftykins> i had to decline, as the commute to California would be killer
<jussi>  oh dear... I just received a package from france...
<daftykins> D:
<bigcalm> This is a bad thing?
<MartijnVdS> jussi: Surrender gifts?
<jussi> I was getting excited thinking it was something fun... and it was windows/driver cd's from HP....
 * jussi sighs...
<bigcalm> Haha
<daftykins> erk
<bigcalm> Sorry, but that's a little funny :)
<jussi> it c ame by courier, to the door!
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> perhaps only HP France has a CD writer
<jussi> hahaa
<daftykins> ok i'm gonna head off, bbl \o
<jussi> laters
<popey> I got a parcel today
<popey> https://plus.google.com/u/0/109365858706205035322/posts/PxNMQntYo8a
<MartijnVdS> popey: Is it as much fun as the box suggests?
<popey> dunno yet â»
<popey> the first one was fun
<SuperMatt> I can't even begin to figure out how that game works
<MartijnVdS> if only they'd playtested it a little
<SuperMatt> that surely would have been a good idea
<popey> its good fun
<mungbean_> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/374397522/apngasm-foss-animated-png-tools-and-apng-standardi?ref=category
<mungbean_> check the $5k pledge
<mgdm> o_O
<mgdm> Twitter deploy their code in a cooler way than I get to :( https://vine.co/v/heaOxhb3w5p
<mungbean_> arduino fans: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2021474419/flutter-20-wireless-arduino-with-half-mile-1km-ran?ref=category
<dutchie> hi all - anybody know if there is still a way to import .ovpn configuration into network manager?
<SuperMatt> I've no idea, though I can't see any reason why not
<SuperMatt> you may have to install the openvpn packages though
<SuperMatt> sudo apt-get install network-manager-open
<SuperMatt> uhm, there's supposed to be vpn on the end of that
<SuperMatt> who knows how I forgot it?
<dutchie> ah, i found it
<SuperMatt> awesome
<dutchie> i was just grabbing "OpenVPN" from the add menu
<dutchie> and not seeing the "Import a saved configuration" option at the very bottom
<SuperMatt> doh
<SuperMatt> well done
<mungbean_> linked in search is broken :(
<MartijnVdS> mungbean_: linkedin is broken.
<bashrc> linkedin is best avoided
<mungbean_> :-|
<daftykins> all social notworking, in fairness is :)
<bashrc> _o_
<mungbean_> not if doing some stalking
<daftykins> hah
<mungbean_> is there an equivalent of unity --reset for windows?
<ali1234> yeah, open task manager and kill explorer.exe
<mungbean_> thnking more along lines of restore to defaults
<mungbean_> something weird about this install
<daftykins> what are you wanting to reset 0o
<ali1234> ah. boot the recovery disk and copy the backup registry hive over the main one
<ali1234> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/307545
<mungbean_> all fonts are nastified, and opening word, usually would have a blue background outside thepage boundaries, but it is brilliant white
<mungbean_> fonts are as if the cleartype settings have been deliverately chosen for masximum difficulty in reading
<mungbean_> the wizard doesn't fix it
<mungbean_> and there's no way of restoring to defaults
<daftykins> is that a bare metal install? 0o
<mungbean_> yesh
<mungbean_> dual boot
<mungbean_> think it all started after plugging a second monitor to the laptop
<daftykins> hrmm
<SuperMatt> has anyone here looked through the new wallpapers?
<bashrc> No
<SuperMatt> oh
<bashrc> Are they shocking?
<SuperMatt> well, I've just looked through them, and many of them seem to be of quite a low quality
<ali1234> link?
<mungbean_> http://i.imgur.com/SGKisCO.png
<SuperMatt> well I just did an apt-get update
<SuperMatt> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/08/ubuntu-13-10-winning-wallpapers-revealed
<mungbean_> screnshot of desktop viewed on another monitor shows there is a blue title bar and thing on the left
<mungbean_> and search progs is readable
<SuperMatt> so look at the 4th one (it's the white shilohette of the salamander)
<daftykins> seems pretty conventional mungbean_
<mungbean_> yes but on the laptop the blue bits arent showing
<daftykins> mungbean_: right click desktop -> personalise -> picking a theme might force a reload?
<mungbean_> hmm maybe gamma controls
<SuperMatt> the jpg is 2560x1600, but it's just an upscaled version of something much smaller
<daftykins> some of those look quite nice
<mungbean_> HEY ITS FIXED
<mungbean_> the contrast had been changed (possibly by me) from 50 to 55 on the intel graphics options
<SuperMatt> the leaf with water droplets is completely out of focus
<mungbean_> completely ruins everything
<mungbean_> SuperMatt: looks liek they are going for single colour themes
<daftykins> mungbean_: how weird
<bashrc> I wouldn't exactly characterise those wallpapers as being low quality
<mungbean_> "colour enhancement" my butt
<SuperMatt> many of them just aren't right
<daftykins> so painful looking at those comments
<mungbean_> are the comments about unity?
<daftykins> nah the wallpaper talk
<SuperMatt> they've been submitted at 2560x1600, but when you look at them at native res, not zoomed in or out, many of them are heavily pixelated
<SuperMatt> so they've just been upscaled
<daftykins> you see they say they've not put the originals up on that page, yeah?
<SuperMatt> yeah, but the package has landed in saucy
<SuperMatt> I'm looking at them right now
<daftykins> oh right
<mungbean_> whats the default? still the techicolour chunder?
<ali1234> i don't think a new default has been released
<SuperMatt> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-wallpapers/+bug/1216223 aha, it seems that something has gone wrong between the original submissions and being packaged
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1216223 in ubuntu-wallpapers (Ubuntu) "Wallpapers for saucy salamander are being modified the wrong way, worsening their quality" [Medium,Confirmed]
<SuperMatt> you're right, the default hasn't been released yet
<mungbean_> how long are flapjacks edible for?
<mungbean_> no mould visible yet
<mungbean_> also...if i upgrade to raring kernel in precise, do i need to upgrade to the xserver-xorg-raring too?
<daftykins> when i make them you need power tools to get them apart :> (flapjack)
<daftykins> always best eaten from the oven :D
<mungbean_> 10 days old
<mungbean_> atm
<daftykins> what's the worst that could happen ^_^
<mungbean_> i die
<mungbean_> everybody dies
<mungbean_> the universe implodes
<daftykins> sucks when people don't spot a rhetorical question :(
<mungbean_> glad you stopped me when you did
<mungbean_> i just ate one anyway
<mungbean_> i can feel the fartrs coming already
<mungbean_> 5 farts per flapjack
<daftykins> too much info
<bigcalm> Have to say, this phone is satisfying my lust for applying updates
<mungbean_> i turned that off
<bigcalm> You turned off farts?
<mungbean_> i wish
<mungbean_> or at least my wife wishes
<mungbean_> so regarding the other question...anyone done the install of xserver-xorg-lts-raring?
<mungbean_> this is why everything is quiet? http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/meeting/21887/intro-and-keynote/
<popey> mungbean_: yeah, uds day
<penguin42> so lets see, everything on there is in UTC, and we're UTC +1 hmm
<penguin42> bah missed the virtualisation one
<daftykins> :(
<daftykins> things are often better recorded over live :D
<penguin42> yeh at least they're up on Youtube
<daftykins> heh that dev summit link keeps changing video source
<daftykins> someones dancing on the inputs
<penguin42> oh dear - the youtube suggestions after watching 'virtualization stack work for saucy' are erm saucy
<daftykins> >_<
<daftykins> i did think the name was a bit... dangerous
<penguin42> well, two lots of Miley Cirus and oddly the Lock Ness Monster
<daftykins> hahaha
<daftykins> saucy Nessy
<daftykins> i checked a 1.5TB drive i pulled from a clients array
<daftykins> sure enough - 1,300 odd sectors pending reallocation
<daftykins> i seem to be finding record breaking HDD deaths recently :D
<ali1234> after the keynote session all the suggested videos were some american popstar "twerking"
<penguin42> yeh I think that's the same one
<shauno> I'm impressed you found them at all.  still looking :/
<shauno> the link from http://uds.ubuntu.com/agenda/ appears to be to something completely unrelated
<penguin42> shauno: Yeh they didn't make it easy
<penguin42> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/2013-08-27/
<shauno> ah, I'd apparently found an entirely different subsite.  nice start.  thanks
<Laney> tracks -> tuesday from that page
<AlanBell> ali1234: yeah, I learned about twerking from the Ubuntu Developer Summit too
<daftykins> kinda fond of the lack of updates on this BigV debian 6 VPS
<penguin42> daftykins: Yeh my mail server is still on the non-BigV bytemark stuff
 * popey points AlanBell at http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/meeting/21947/client-1308-touch-1404-a11y/
<daftykins> penguin42: ah yeah - i helped my friends with those. are you planning to migrate eventually?
<penguin42> daftykins: Yeh I should sometime - I think BigV is cheaper
<daftykins> penguin42: they did have some node issues a while back, once all the instances were frozen and had to be rebooted manually
<daftykins> their CLI tool is great though, just a quick "vm restart <name>" and it was done :>
<daftykins> i'm using the BigV VPS with their 'symbiosis' setup, which allows administration pretty much solely via config file creation over SFTP/SCP
<penguin42> daftykins: Especially after they rememberd to close the VNC console bug?
<daftykins> oh? not familiar with that
<penguin42> daftykins: Ah I can't remember the details; but I think there was a 'reboot' button on the interface and that didn't need any auth
<daftykins> ooh-err
<penguin42> daftykins: https://forum.bytemark.co.uk/comments.php?DiscussionID=4076&page=1#Item_0
<daftykins> penguin42: thanks, having a read
<daftykins> penguin42: not even sure of my management IP XD
<daftykins> penguin42: come to think of it i think i didn't create mine until 2013 so i'm set :)
<daftykins> early adopters got burnt
<Monotoko2> Damnit, there's a proxy service that you put in your browser, then it sends all requests to blocked sites through them
<Monotoko2> then you don't have to go hunting for proxies manually every time
<Monotoko2> but I can't remember the name of it
<penguin42> Monotoko2: You want a proxy site for hard to remember proxy sites
<Monotoko2> penguin42: it gives you a file that you put in your browser
<Monotoko2> then when you go to a blocked site, it uses there's instead
<Monotoko2> otherwise it uses your connection
<Monotoko2> it begins with I if I recall right
<mungbean_> i'm sure there's other chans for that kind of request
<mungbean_> :P
<Monotoko2> mungbean_: not remembering it is driving me absolutely nuts
<mungbean_> whats the name of the process that runs the panel in the top right of the screen?
 * Monotoko2 headdesks
<Monotoko2> I swear hidemyass isn't supposed to be blocked
<Monotoko2> unless Virgin have taken to blocking generic proxies
<diddledan> Monotoko2, it's got the word "ass" so it's blocked by pr0nfilter like essex uni
<diddledan> </troll>
<shauno> reminds me of an article I read recently; a site kept failing to display properly.  turned out it was because one of the devs had a potty mouth, and some of his more colourful comments in the .css caused the file to get blocked by various things
<MartijnVdS> bwaha :)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: what about the news site with the article about the "gas explosion" (one word in Dutch: gasexplosie)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: Or the one mentioning magic powers ("toverkracht", "verkracht" means "raped")
<shauno> I'm watching a TV show with dutch subtitles.  I'm more and more inclined to believe it's not a real language
<mungbean_> i wonder if it will ever become 2nd language in netherlands..
<MartijnVdS> shauno: I get a similar feeling when I channel-surf past BBC Alba
<MartijnVdS> shauno: "This must be a joke channel.. right? People don't talk like that?"
<mungbean_> what's alba?
<MartijnVdS> mungbean_: http://www.bbc.co.uk/alba/
<MartijnVdS> I guess it's Scotland
<MartijnVdS> but it looks Irishish?
<shauno> they're related
<MartijnVdS> hence the extra "ish" :)
<shauno> brythonic is the word you're looking for ;)
<mungbean_> my son says dominoeses ...reminds me of gollum
<shauno> hm, or not.  that's what I get for trying to look clever
<MartijnVdS> mungbean_: preciousss :)
<shauno> seriously, overwinning?  that's a word?
<diddledan> shauno, sounds like something that matrin sheen would say
<diddledan> no, I don't mean martin
<diddledan> his son
<shauno> I really need to turn these silly subtitles off.  I'm spending more time watching all these crazy words, than actually watching the show
<diddledan> charlie sheen
<diddledan> I had to google his name
<diddledan> shows how out of touch I am :-p
<diddledan> oh joy of joys: quote: "SOPA is back. Well, one of the harshest and most ridiculous parts of it, anyway. The Obama Administration wants to make unauthorized streaming a felony -- with years of jail time.
<diddledan> If this passes, sharing a video of yourself singing karaoke could land you in prison. Singing âHappy Birthdayâ with your family and videotaping it would be a felony. Click here to say NO to SOPA censorship."
<diddledan> obviously I didn't mean to copy+paste the click here bit
<diddledan> and no, you can't click there
<diddledan> :-p
<Monotoko2> Hi,
<Monotoko2> I'm the sysadmin at ZyNet, I was informed at 22:45 that our main server
<Monotoko2> (Neville) has gone down. I can't connect via SSH or HTTP so went to your
<Monotoko2> control panel to do some troubleshooting. However
<Monotoko2> https://cp.flexiscale.comis down and I am unable to connect from this
<Monotoko2> PC or any other PC.
<Monotoko2> I then tried to use your API to at least see if I could reboot our affected
<Monotoko2> server, however I'm unable to connect to that either.
<Monotoko2> I'm sorry to email you out of hours but that is our main server and we need
<Monotoko2> it up ASAP.
<Monotoko2> Regards,
<Monotoko2> ...........
<Monotoko2> I apologise, please ignore that
<penguin42> oh sure...
 * penguin42 takes away Monotoko2's paste button
<Monotoko2> penguin42: I have irssi in a putty window
<Monotoko2> right click is paste -.-
<Monotoko2> i right clicked thinking I could open another tab because that's what I usually do under Linux
<ali1234> this is why i use a gui irc client
<ali1234> even if i paste accidentally i still have to press return before it sends it
<Monotoko2> ali1234: true, but I can pull this screen up from any machine which is why I use it.
#ubuntu-uk 2013-08-28
<shauno> Monotoko2: if you /set paste_verify_line_count to something non-zero, irssi will get you to confirm long pastes.  saves my bacon more times than I'd care admit
<ali1234> that's handy
<shauno> it really is.  it'll ask you to, iirc, press ctrl+K to send it or ctrl+C to abort it.  doesn't catch all whoopsies, but stops the ones that are accidental floods
<daftykins> 02:13 < vanishing> is saucy discussion allowed?
<daftykins> absolute gold.
<penguin42> daftykins: We've got many months of innuendo and double-meanings ahead of us
<Myrtti> well that was unexpected, a squirrel waltzed into my second floor apartment and was hungrily gazing at my kitchen table when I shooed it out with clapping my hands. Had my balcony glazing windows and balcony door open and he just walked in.
<moodoo> the cheek
<MartijnVdS> SQUIRREL!
<Myrtti> my only sympathy for the bastards comes from sympathy on being eradicated from elsewhere in Europe by the prevalence of gray ones
<MartijnVdS> at least it's not a pigeon
<MartijnVdS> I had one of those fly into my house once
<Myrtti> I suppose
<MartijnVdS> had to remove pigeon poo from 6 places!
<Myrtti> less feathers
<MartijnVdS> (pigeons relieve themselves when they get scared)
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: but.. squirrels are cute! right?
<Myrtti> they're not if they gnaw themselves into houses
<Myrtti> Finnish houses are often made of wood.
<Myrtti> they like the house I halfown and where my sister lives
<MartijnVdS> How American :P
<popey> Morning
<moodoo> morning Alan
<shauno> MartijnVdS: I'd probably react the same way if a creature over 10 times my height was chasing me around the house
<popey> https://play.google.com/store/devices/details?id=nexus_4_8gb
<popey> new low price
<popey> sophie wants a portable device for her birthday
<MartijnVdS> popey: Sorry! Devices on Google Play is not available in your country yet.
<popey> she previous said she wanted an ipod touch
<MartijnVdS> popey: what's the new price?
<popey> 159 for 8GB
<popey> 199 for 16GB
<MartijnVdS> that's a good price
<popey> GBP
<popey> yeah
<popey> thinking this might be suitable for Sohie
<popey> +p
<popey> and then later when she wants a phone, just put a sim in it
<MartijnVdS> That would probably work
<popey> she already uses a nexus 7 so is fine with android
<MartijnVdS> popey: also, syncing of calendar, contacts, etc. (though I don't know how useful that might be at her age)
<popey> yeah, she uses gmail
<popey> so already has some contacts, friends from school
<popey> http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/27/bubonic-plague-outbreak-feared-central-asia
<popey> thats not nice
<MartijnVdS> popey: That price drop does suggest an impending "Nexus 5" to me
<Myrtti> it does
<Myrtti> but that's expected, they tend to come with the new phones at Q4 nowadays
<Myrtti> I wonder who'll make it this time
<MartijnVdS> Rumours say LG
<MartijnVdS> (again)
<Myrtti> meh
<DJones> Woot, N7 Available for collection on my way home from work
<MartijnVdS> DJones: v2?
<Myrtti> would've much liked Samsung
<DJones> Yep
<Myrtti> but I suppose divide and conquer is better for Google
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<mungbean_> what's the new nexus4 price?
<MartijnVdS> 09:39 < popey> 159 for 8GB
<MartijnVdS> 09:39 < popey> 199 for 16GB
<brobostigon> 159
<mungbean_> wow thats good
<mungbean_> if my htc broke today i would get one
<TheOpenSourcerer> My youngest son is saving up for/thinking iPod Touch too. That sounds like a nice alternative.
<brobostigon> i became an uncle this morning, my brother and his partner, :)
<moodoo> brobostigon: congrats :D
<TheOpenSourcerer> Congrats brobostigon
<mungbean_> \o/
<mungbean_> are you gonna be the cool uncle?
<brobostigon> thank you moodoo and TheOpenSourcerer :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Niece or Nephew?
<brobostigon> TheOpenSourcerer: nephew.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ahhh.
<mungbean_> my 15yr old nephews think of me as cool uncle because i fix their computers
<MartijnVdS> congratifications
<mungbean_> one of them calls me hacker cos i "do scripting"
<brobostigon> thank yu MartijnVdS :)
<MartijnVdS> mungbean_: you can claim you're not one because you don't write l33t 4ll d4y l1k3 r34l h4x0rs
<brobostigon> mungbean_: we will see. i think my gf's little boy think of me like that, as he is always asking me loads of difficult questions, and asks me loads of varied engineering questions.
<mungbean_> maybe its stewie from family guy
<mungbean_> and he's building a time machine
<brobostigon> mungbean_: you do know, time travel is already possible, dont you.
 * AlanBell is time travelling right now
<mungbean_> you already told me that next week
<AlanBell> at a rate of 60 seconds per minute
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: the TARDIS has internet now?
<brobostigon> all you need to do, is travel at speed, or be in a strong enough gravitational field, but i am sure everyone knew that already.
<popey> in theory
<hussain_> hai
<brobostigon> time dilation is proven, not theory anymore.
<hussain_> hai????
<brobostigon> morning hussain_
<hussain_> morning
<hussain_> brobosting ha
<hussain_> brobostigon hai
<brobostigon> using your tab button is good for nick completion help.
<dwatkins> mornin folks
<brobostigon> morning dwatkins
<dwatkins> or afternoon/evening/delete-as-applicable
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<SuperMatt> morning peeps
<dwatkins> I think I need to get a wiggle on reading my networking documentation, I didn't even consider traceroute as a basic tool for determining the proxy configuration yesterday, and jumped straight to snooping the network
<dwatkins> simple solutions first, etc.
<bigcalm> I think I might have found my next keyboard: http://codekeyboards.com/
<dwatkins> bigcalm: I'm saving up for a HHKB2 ;)
<brobostigon> i always thought, that i as the eldest, would give my parents grandchildren first, but thats a very old-fashioned way of looking at it.
<SuperMatt> I don't know why anyone would pay $150 for that keyboard. sure it has some nice looking features, but you can pick up a great cherry keyboard for a fifth of that price
<bigcalm> I have keyboards coming out of my ears, the buggers are everywhere
<DJones> bigcalm: Should you not be using this keyboard http://www.instablogsimages.com/images/2010/08/16/upercoder-2000-keyboard_AZwup_22974.jpg
<shauno> brobostigon: as the eldest, I assumed my job is to be smarter than that, and just worry about being a half-decent uncle :)
<brobostigon> shauno: i thinkmy experiences with my gf's 6 year old boy, will help alot, in practice.
<mungbean_> freenode stroppy about my login
<popey> bigcalm: shamew its us layout
<mungbean_> Two developers were able to successfully reverse-engineer Dropbox to intercept SSL traffic, bypass two-factor authentication and create open-source clients.
<MartijnVdS> popey: layout is remappable, isn't it?
<bigcalm> popey: yes, that's putting me off. Though one can change the layout I think
<MartijnVdS> it comes with a key remover
<shauno> you can't remap ansi to iso :/  that's the one that'd hold me back
<MartijnVdS> shauno: ansi to iso?
<shauno> the ansi keyboard has no key between left-shift and where we have Z.  also has a pink-sized Enter key vs a fist-sized
<MartijnVdS> shauno: I have a mix then
<popey> MartijnVdS: uk keyboards have a big enter key
<MartijnVdS> popey: and a \ key next to "z", right? (at least, my Chromebook does)
<MartijnVdS> http://deskthority.net/wiki/ANSI_vs_ISO
<popey> yeah
<shauno> mine's actually not much bigger than, eg, tab.  but it's two rows high, which is the bit you can't remap around
<diddledan_> shauno, since when has the colour pink been a value of size?
<popey> thats what i mean, the fact that it's double height
<bigcalm> http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/wasd-v1-custom-keyboard.html
<shauno> diddledan_: I meant pinkie.  I've lost the ability to type in the last few years.  it has me worried too
<MartijnVdS> Ah: "ANSI layout keyboards are used in the United States and the Netherlands amongst other countries. "
<shauno> no wonder you're confused then :)
<bigcalm> Oh my
<shauno> what I notice though, is I'm actually quite comfortable with a US keymap.  it's changing the physical layout that breaks my head
<bigcalm> That explains why the PS/2 to USB converter I'm using is not passing the \| key
<bigcalm> I just had to type that on a separate keyboard
<MartijnVdS> whoa.. that deskthority wiki is quite comprehensive.. http://deskthority.net/wiki/Main_Page
<dwatkins> bigcalm: http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2013/08/the-code-keyboard.html
<directhex> HELLO! :D
<bigcalm> Oh my
<bigcalm> Why do none of the PS/2 USB converters I'm looking at specify if they are ANSI or ISO standard? I miss my \| key
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: just buy an USB kb with the required layout?
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: considering how much I paid for this Unicomp kb from the US, no
<SuperMatt> I'm not sure if my work PC's recent dramatic speedup is due to some really top notch updates, or my switching from bash to zsh
<mungbean_> bash completion is a bit eager?
<SuperMatt> mungbean_: was that directed at me?
<mungbean_> yep
<SuperMatt> I don't know
<mungbean_> maybe the search path is too wide
<SuperMatt> I'm talking about almost everything being faster
<mungbean_> sounds a bit like the sun coming out because you had a cheese sandwich
<SuperMatt> like it took no time for windows to open when in the past they were a little slower
<mungbean_> terminal windows?
<mungbean_> or all
<SuperMatt> the sun *always* comes out when I have a cheese sandwich
<SuperMatt> it's a cheese sandwich, dammit
<SuperMatt> all windows
<SuperMatt> just everything is slicker
<SuperMatt> if I could be bothered with science, I would reinstate bash and try everything again
<mgdm> bash_completion isn't the quickest thing
<mgdm> I use zsh, but I like it for other reasons
<mgdm> Obligatory blog link: mgdm.net/weblog/zsh-antigen
<brobostigon> great, nexus4 price cut, wasnt in my price range before, now is. and that a month after i got a new phone. ohwell.
<popey> think i may hand down my nexus 4 to daughter
<mungbean_> does ubuntu phone run ok on it?
<BigRedS> I used zsh for a while, but since it's not installed on 99% of the computers I use I stopped bothering with it on my laptop
<popey> ya
<mungbean_> does/will
<popey> its one of our target platforms for development
<mungbean_> thought so
<mgdm> BigRedS: I only seriously use about 3 computers these days - all the rest are deployed to automatically and I don't log in very often, so I have zsh + my vimrc most places
<SuperMatt> I've now got my .zsh and .vimrc in git
<SuperMatt> which makes life easy
<bashrc> I mostly only use two computers: a desktop and a laptop.  I have others but they're only used a small percentage of the time
<popey> I'm back to using one computer
<popey> unless you count ipad, nexus 4, nexus 7, iphone as computers â»
<SuperMatt> well, I assume that you work from home?
<mgdm> SuperMatt: same here
<BigRedS> Heh, my vimrc fell out of git and is now routinely scped somewhere and down from there :)
<BigRedS> I say 'routinely'; I don't think it's changed this yer
<BigRedS> *year
<SuperMatt> https://github.com/SuperMatt/DotFiles/blob/master/.vimrc I can't say mine's particularly amazing
<SuperMatt> I need to change that actually
<mgdm> Mine's at http://github.com/mgdm/vimrc :-)
<mehi> hey peops ;)
<mgdm> I don't have a blog post about that...
<SuperMatt> I've just added expandtab to my vimrc
<mungbean_> does find.... -delete work?
<mungbean_> i always use exec rm {} \;
<SuperMatt> that's what I do
<mgdm> find -delete works fine, yes
<mungbean_> somebody put it in a crontab but its not working
<SuperMatt> find is my upmost favourite command line tool
<mungbean_> find 20 days ... delete
<mungbean_> find 30 days exec rm
<mungbean_> only 30 days is woorking
<dwatkins> does find's -delete option work on directories or just files? How does it handle empty directories?
<mungbean_> he -delete action also implies -depth.
<dwatkins> I imagine using rm within -exec in find would lead to failures, since you'd delete the directory containing files then it would try and delete the files
<mungbean_> Donât forget that the find command line is evaluated as an expression, so  putting  -delete  first  will  make  find try to delete everything below the starting points you specified
<mungbean_> i dunno, sounds scary
<popey> SuperMatt: ya
<BigRedS> dwatkins: it depends what you want the rm to do
<BigRedS> find . -mtime +31 -exec rm -rf {} \;  will delete anything older than 31 days (probably) without complaining
<BigRedS> find . -mtime +31 -type f -exec rm -rf {} \;  will just do the files and leave your dirs intact
<dwatkins> BigRedS: exactly what I was vaguely heading in the direction of, thanks
<czajkowski> Aloha
<dwatkins> wotcher
<BigRedS> Good morning!
<BigRedS> dwatkins: no worries! :) Find's one of those tools you one day just 'get' and it's suddenly a tool for every problem :)
<dwatkins> yeah, I use it a little, so have used the -type a few times, I need to check the manpage every time I need to use mtime, ctime etc. though
<mungbean_> the ubuntu women project survey seems to expect you to have heard of it
<mungbean_> otherwise after "Are you familiar with the Ubuntu Women Project?
<popey> you have if you're taking the survey â»
<mungbean_> if you say no, then bascailly it needs to end.
<popey> unless you close your eyes before clicking the survey
<mungbean_> nope, popey +1'd a post
<popey> right
<mungbean_> Are you a woman interested in Ubuntu? Your feedback will help us shape our future goals!
<popey> ergo you now know about it
<mungbean_> thats all
<mungbean_> didn't read who posted it
<popey> you may have found out about it 10 seconds ago
<mungbean_> my eyes didn't read that bit
<mungbean_> thought i'd read to send to my wife
<mungbean_> who def hasn't heard of it
<popey> #ubuntu-women is probably the place for this useful feedback
<mungbean_> maybe the survey is broken because i'm a man
<mungbean_> :D
<mungbean_> wow, new humble bundle
<mungbean_> has some games i've heard of
<directhex> no new bundle yet
<directhex> still humble origin bundle
<mungbean_> yeah
<mungbean_> windows game i suppose
<directhex> all windows only
<directhex> except the sims 3, which is also mac
<mungbean_> can't find spec for sims3
<Myrtti> sims3 ran on a 2010 mac
<Myrtti> mac mini, sorry
<directhex> https://www.origin.com/en-gb/store/buy/sims-3/mac-pc-download/base-game/standard-edition#details
<directhex> click "system requirements"
<mungbean_> thanks
<mungbean_> my pc is bordering on that spec
<mungbean_> think i'll pass
<dwatkins> hmm, I get no such link on there, I wonder if it doesn't like my Mac or Chrome
<mungbean_> i always buy these things cos they are a bargain and never touch them
<dwatkins> anyway, it's Origin, which I avoid like it was an evil ascended being bent on taking over the galaxy with a fake religion.
<mungbean_> oh is that the EA DRM system?
<dwatkins> I do that a lot with Steam games, mungbean_ - I think I need to take a month off to catch up on them.
<BigRedS> I assumed that since I hadn't heard of them they're either not *that* evil or incompetent enough to mean the evil's not much of a danger
<dwatkins> Origin is EA's installer, I think, but I've heard all sorts of horror stories about people being banned for other people's comments about them, and crazy stuff.
<mungbean_> my wife just likes the sims housebuilding part of the game
<directhex> origin is EA's attempt to build their own Steam
<dwatkins> My boss had a nightmare buying just one game from EA when in Germany, so she'll never buy anything from them again, they were pretty rude to her.
<directhex> of the 10 HIB games, 6 are steam and origin, 4 are origin only
<dwatkins> yeah, I avoid any HumbleBundle stuff which requires Origin, I'm probably unfairly biased, but have just read too much about how bad EA are in various ways.
<dwatkins> It stopped me buying Battlefield 3 before I had even considered the merits of the game itself, for example.
<BigRedS> Oh right. All/most of the origin bundle is steam game IIRC
<dwatkins> a couple games appear to be Origin-only
<dwatkins> I guess it makes sense, considering it's called the Humble Origin Bundle ;)
<mungbean_> wifey plays games on tablet rather than laptop mostly now
<mungbean_> haven't found (m)any good tablet games though
<dwatkins> Battleheart is great fun (Android or iOS)
<dwatkins> my nephew quite enjoyed Wind Up Knight, too, also Android & iOS
<BigRedS> I've mostly stopped being interested in new games now that World of Tanks is basically absorbing all of my time...
<BigRedS> I get to be a history nerd *and* blow stuff up
<mungbean_> mrs mungbean_ tends to prefer girly games
<dwatkins> I'm curious about the new Rome game coming out soon, I really like RTSs, especially Homeworld.
<directhex> fliss has been alternating between a cross-stitch project, and playing skyrim
<directhex> trying to convince her to play Defiance MMO with me
<dwatkins> many of my colleagues are starting to play Dominion
<dwatkins> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion_(card_game) that is
<mungbean_> what's the per-user bashcompletion file?
<bashrc> Another Arduino http://arduino.cc/en/Main/ArduinoYUN
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: several of mine have been playing that for a while now
<Laney> lost Â£3.94 in exchange rate fluctuations on the edge :(
<mungbean_> its in some bankers pocket now
<Laney> relatedly: do credit cards usually refund the credit balance or will they just keep it there until I spend it?
<DJones> I don't think they normally refund unless requested
<Laney> ho hum
<mungbean_> can anyone share tips on producing awesome .inputrc files?
<mungbean_> e.g "\e[A": history-search-backward
<mungbean_> "\e[B": history-search-forward
<mungbean_> "\e[C": forward-char
<mungbean_> "\e[D": backward-char
<dwatkins> That's pretty neat, is there a ctrl character for moving back a word, too?
<dwatkins> iirc you can move in one direction but not the other by an entire word
<mungbean_> # Use Ctrl or Alt Arrow keys to move along words
<mungbean_> "\C-[OD" backward-word
<mungbean_> "\C-[OC" forward-word
<mungbean_> "\e\e[C": forward-word
<mungbean_> "\e\e[D": backward-word
<dwatkins> mungbean_ has won the internet for today
<mungbean_> try it..
<mungbean_> not working for me :(
<dwatkins> I assume I should put those into the relevant file and start a new bash shell.
<mungbean_> yes
<dwatkins> using alt to move between words works, nice one!
<dwatkins> oh, it worked before *embarassed grin*
<mungbean_> still not working for me :(
<dwatkins> what shell, Ubuntu version are you on, mungbean_?
<mungbean_> GNU bash, version 4.2.25(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
<mungbean_> 12.04
<mungbean_> alt L R produces ;3C;3D
<dwatkins> I'm on the same bash version but i386
<dwatkins> I am using iTerm on OS X, however, perhaps it's that your terminal application isn't sending the correct strings to the shell.
<dwatkins> (I'm also using ssh, tmux and screen, but hopefully they aren't making any such changes)
<mungbean_> ok fixed
<mungbean_> "\e[1;3C": forward-word
<mungbean_> "\e[1;3D": backward-word
<penguin42> finally, G+ translate button
<mungbean_> i was using pantheon terminal
<mungbean_> now to get my head round histignore
<dwatkins> interesting, I didn't know that existed; I have the opposite problem sometimes, that putting a space at the beginning of a line stops bash recording it in the history even when I want it to.
<mungbean_> lines  which begin with a space character are not saved in the history list.
<mungbean_> histcontrol
<mungbean_> yours must be either ignorespace or ignoreboth
<mungbean_> also cheeky if you have su into another user's accoutn and don't want your commands going into their history
<mungbean_> http://shirt.woot.com/offers/things-waiting-in-the-darkness
<dwatkins> I have this one: http://shirt.woot.com/offers/it-came-out-of-nowhere
<mungbean_> ah, old fave
<mungbean_> i have this one
<mungbean_> http://shirt.woot.com/offers/by-your-powers-combined
<dwatkins> I recently placed an order with http://www.lastexittonowhere.com/ for a bunch of t-shirts related to Alien[s], Blade Runner and Soylent Green, I probably shouldn't be looking at any more t-shirts for a while ;)
<mungbean_> since turning 35 i bought more geek/joke tshirts
<mungbean_> before 35 i never bought any, except maybe music/band tshirts which i would never buy now
<mungbean_> ah origami unicorn
<dwatkins> haha http://shirt.woot.com/offers/thundercares
<dwatkins> I like mashups like this.
<dwatkins> ok, I should stop looking at this site, "whos-door" is looking very tempting.
<mungbean_> after modifying your .inputrc, did you brak bash?
<mungbean_> entering vi .<tab>
<mungbean_> word=1
<mungbean_> words=( "${COMP_WORDS[@]}" )
<mungbean_> words=("${@:3:2}")
<mungbean_> cword="$3"
<mungbean_> cur="$3"
<mungbean_> cur="$3"
<mungbean_> loads of junk
<SuperMatt> just a thought, but considering how many email clients now block images by default, why the hell do people still insist on sending html email?
<funkyHat> I think it's probably more a case of people insist on not knowing the difference
<mungbean_> ok was just one bad session
<mungbean_> others are ok
<dwatkins> I thought most e-mail clients capable of sending HTML e-mail also sent a plain text version as well.
<dwatkins> anyway, I'm off for a plain text lunch, ttfn
<BigRedS> I've a whole load of senders whitelisted for images in gmail
<BigRedS> for that sort of near-spam mail, having html and images does actually make the emails more useful
<dutchie> sigh
<dutchie> why does my openvpn dns never work
<penguin42> when you're connected on openvpn is it using your vpn's dns servers?
<penguin42> or at least is it trying to?
<mungbean> reddir is broke :(
<mungbean> s/ir/it
<dutchie> aha got it
<dutchie> needed to set a search domain
<dutchie> so that's what that option is for
<penguin42> hehe
 * mungbean remembers to put history command in his HISTIGNORE
<mungbean> i wonder how many people who say they know bash, really know bash
<popey> alan@deep-thought:~$ history | grep -ic history
<popey> 7
<popey> not bad
<popey> out of 1000 lines
<SuperMatt> 2 in 500 lines
<BigRedS> I rarely use history, I tend to just grep ~/.bash_history...
<MartijnVdS> I tend to use C-r
<BigRedS> yeah, if I want to run something out of history I'd go with that
<BigRedS> but if I can't remember what parameters I ran something with I'll grep it 'cause I'm always fearful of an accidental pressing of enter
<BigRedS> which reminds me, if you hit ctrl-C on a normal keyboard that's being a dvorak one you actually send a ctrl-j (I think) which will run the command
<BigRedS> which ended my habit of using ctrl-c to abort a half-written wrong command
<mungbean> history command on my desktop...low. history command on a shared server ...v high
<BigRedS> history's a bit broken as soon as you have concurrent shells
<BigRedS> 'cause the last one to exit wins
<BigRedS> so loads of commands that were run don't end up in history
<mungbean> yeah i hate that
<mungbean> needs fixing really
<BigRedS> it should really have a NoSQL backend
<MartijnVdS> shopt -s histappend
<MartijnVdS> fixed! :)
<BigRedS> and a restful api
<MartijnVdS> then each exiting shell *appends* its history to the history file
<MartijnVdS> instead of overwriting
<MartijnVdS> if you also set HISTFILESIZE=10000 you should be able to keep a lot of history
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: I've never understood why that defaults to off
<mungbean> i think my file size is zero
<BigRedS> I've not looked either
<BigRedS> it's been part of our build stuff for not quite long enough to be everywhere
<mungbean> my problem is other people deploy servers
<MartijnVdS> http://briancarper.net/blog/248/
<mungbean> .bashrc:shopt -s histappend
<mungbean> was already in mine
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: also, export PROMPT_COMMAND="history -a; history -n"
<mungbean> what's that?
<MartijnVdS> it executes that command every time it's about to show a prompt
<mungbean> my main issue is root account
<MartijnVdS> history -a == save history to file
<MartijnVdS> history -n == reload history
<BigRedS> Ooh, not come across PROMPT_COMMAND before
<BigRedS> but I've definitely wanted that feature in the past
<MartijnVdS> so if you have that in all your terminals, history is completely shared between them
<mungbean>     shopt -s cmdhist
<MartijnVdS> see the briancarper link I posted
<mungbean> Another optional feature of Bash history filtering that isn't always enabled by default in distributions is cmdhist. This determines whether multi-line commands are stored in the history as a single command (on) or not (off; default). This makes it much easier to go back and edit multi-line commands.
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: another weird default
<mungbean>     If set, Bash attempts spelling correction on directory names during word completion if the directory name initially supplied does not exist.
<MartijnVdS> yeah, that's a useful one
<MartijnVdS> This one as well:
<MartijnVdS> $ cat .inputrc
<MartijnVdS> set completion-ignore-case on
<MartijnVdS> That makes tab-completion in *all* readline-using apps (including bash) case insensitive
<mungbean> had a ride on a model railway on monday
<mungbean> the sort that old guys make working models of
<mungbean> i think there were more adults than children in the queue
<MartijnVdS> everyone needs a hobby
<mungbean> my friend oimon took a video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgKeO3oZDbc
<popey> your "friend"
<mungbean> :)
<mungbean> he is also friends with mungojerry
<MartijnVdS> so if you're ever researching something "for a friend", we'll know who it's for :P
<mungbean> nahm they can come and ask themselves
<mungbean> the steam trains weren't out that day though
 * Monotoko throws Windows out of the window
<MartijnVdS> Monotoko: defenestrate! DEFENESTRATE!
<Monotoko> MartijnVdS: Seriously hate IIS
<Monotoko> I have a blank, white screen
<Monotoko> and no errors to tell me why
<MartijnVdS> Monotoko: a blank canvas!
<mungbean> notepad, full screen .:P
 * Monotoko bangs head on keyboard
<mungbean> kindle offer today looks good http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B002RI90B8
<Monotoko> I give up... the logs are complaining about friggin' Windows Desktop Search, like the least needed thing in the entire world on a server
<mungbean> what governs the shortcut ctrl-W ?
<mungbean> xbindkeys? or something else
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: ctrl+w? remove last word?
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: or close window?
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: in the second case: the app itself.
<MartijnVdS> in the first case: libreadline
<mungbean> ah, i just realised the DE was hogging it for something else
<mungbean> removed the shortcutt from settings and now works
<mungbean> i was referring to close window
<mungbean> major fail last night, somehow managed to screw up setting the alarm to wake up for baby's 11.30pm feed
<mungbean> woke at 4.30am with a shock
<penguin42> hungry baby or one that hadn't noticed?
<mungbean> i heard a cry in the night around 1am but she stopped and i rolled over and fell asleep again
<diddledan_> mungbean, good parenting advice that?
<mungbean> baby woke around 5.30 as usual
<diddledan_> "when your baby cries, roll over and go back to sleep"
<diddledan_> :-p
<mungbean> just a small cry
<mungbean> daddy you forgot me
<mungbean> snore
<mungbean> baby: *snore*
<diddledan_> :-)
<mungbean> wifey had earplugs in
<diddledan_> I'm only trollin :-p
<mungbean> only time i've missed a feed in nearly 6 months
<diddledan_> wifey+earplugs=daddy's responsibility
<diddledan_> :-D
<directhex> very simple
<directhex> go to pets@home
<directhex> get one of their "giant bunny" bottles. the ones for the largest model of rabbit
<directhex> fill bottle with moo juice
<directhex> attach bottle to side of cot
<mungbean> lolz
<mungbean> moo juice only allowed after 1yr
<mungbean> gotta be boob juice or formula before then
<NET||abuse> hi guys. i'm trying to setup a new laptop, i want to use ~/.local/share/applications/ as a destination for my custom .desktop files, so starting with sublimetext, i create sublime.desktop there, save it,, now how do i get unity to see it?
<NET||abuse> when i search for it in the launcher it doesn't come up, it's not on my desktop or sidebar yet
<diddledan_> NET||abuse, that's a good question, I've not worked that one out, myself
<NET||abuse> hmm
<NET||abuse> askubuntu says unity isn't monitoring .localshare/applications so just logout/in
<NET||abuse> that's lame
<ali1234> only gnome panel monitors it
<diddledan_> somehow crossover linux manages to add entries without requiring logout-in
<diddledan_> I need to work out how it does it
<NET||abuse> jeeez,, i don't want to cycle my desktop session just to get an icon to show up in launcher, that's so useless.. so there must be a trigger to refresh unity that way
<NET||abuse> I don't know either, steam has done it, it adds game icons through that directory and somehow they show up.
<directhex> NET||abuse, inotify is hard, let's go shopping
<popey> NET||abuse: restart unity
<popey> doesn't require a logout
<popey> ALT+F2, unity. press enter
<diddledan_> I'm sure that steam and xover-linux aren't doing that though
<NET||abuse> popey: reloads desktop/decorators, but doesn't seem to add that app
<popey> odd
<popey> malformed .desktop file?
<NET||abuse> that said, steam's apps aren't showing up in the launcher either, just as icons on the desktop
<NET||abuse> ahah,, so steam didn't manage it eiiterh.
<popey> i have truckloads in mine
<popey> alan@deep-thought:~/.local/share/applications$ ls -l *.desktop | wc -l
<popey> 52
<NET||abuse> ah yes, i'm sure you do as you've rebooted/logged out of session since installing, what i'm wondering is how to make it better so apps just show up once they appear in the directory
<popey> they did, I'm sure
<mungbean> i still have a problem where i start picasa and get a second wine icon on the unity bar
<popey> most were steam apps installed
<NET||abuse> oh, on desktop sure.. but i want the finder to find the desktop apps
<NET||abuse> and they're not going to all be on my desktop, just in the sidebar/launcher
<NET||abuse> i'll try logging in / out and see what happens.
<directhex> NET||abuse, not just you. steam shortcuts don't show for me in unity
<NET||abuse> yup. i'll see what happens after a desktop session restart
<NET||abuse> was gonna try out dota2 tonight, 73% .... ahh, i'll just logout anyway, it'lls restart
<NET||abuse> I'm really liking this laptop hardware... X1 carbon
<NET||abuse> boots in so few seconds it's crazy
<NET||abuse> nope,, logged out altogether
<NET||abuse> still doesn't show up in lens
<NET||abuse> but steams dungeon defenders does :)
<popey> oh nice!
<NET||abuse> hmm, stil, i want my sublimetext2 to work
<popey> they are very nice machines
<popey> had a play with czajkowski's X1 at the pub recently
<popey> nearly stole it
<NET||abuse> yeh, i'm so glad of the resolution in such a small system.
<popey> shame it doesn't have a docking connector
<NET||abuse> 1600x900
<popey> I want a fusion of X230 and X1
<popey> and a moon on a stick
<NET||abuse> they have an external dock/port replicator block you can get
<popey> for the x1?
<NET||abuse> yeup
<NET||abuse> Other dev here has itw
<popey> [citation needed]
<mungbean> does the X1 have a removable battery?
<czajkowski> popey: MINE MINE MINE!
 * penguin42 has this Belkin energy monitor - works well, simple thing; however it's a 2 box thing, one with the plug on and another with the display/switches - and that has a box that's just weirdly designed, I guess it *might* sit on a flat surface, maybe
<NET||abuse> http://www.extak.com/catalog/35196/Lenovo-ThinkPad-USB-3.0-Dock?ppc=google_shopping
<DJones> Ooh, dinky...N7(2) is nice & cute
<DJones> Compared to my previous tablet anyway
<NET||abuse> czajkowski: did you get an i7 or i5?
<NET||abuse> I ended up with the i5, wondering if that's a good thing due to battery, or bad thing cause i'm a whore for specs
<popey> WHAT IS THIS!
<popey> NET||abuse: lenovo don't make good i7 machines
<NET||abuse> uhh, well,ok
<popey> the x220 can't dissipate heat from the i7
<popey> so overheats badly
<popey> the i5 and i3 don't suffer the same
<mungbean> fail
<penguin42> popey: The w5xx are OK
<penguin42> popey: They're big/heavy though
<directhex> NET||abuse, the usb 3 dock does not work in linux
 * directhex waves, mentions he buys dozens of thinkpads a year
<mungbean> its time of year for the annual tomatina photos
<popey> haha
<mungbean> has anyone ever been?
<NET||abuse> directhex: oh really.. so which one is the choice de jure
<NET||abuse> of those 3 or something else?
<directhex> NET||abuse, well, the x1 is great for selected use cases
<directhex> NET||abuse, we have some in the office. cto and head of HR have them
<NET||abuse> aha, i like that it has a display port
<NET||abuse> most of the devs here are standardised on mac, but myself and 2 others are putting our foots down
<NET||abuse> but unfortunately most of the devs have thunderbolt screens which sucks
<popey> I think x230 is still my "next laptop" unless of course someone gives me a mba
<NET||abuse> there are a pool of mere 1920x1080 res samsung lcd panels around
<NET||abuse> mac book air? really
<NET||abuse> is this influence from torvalds' comments?
<directhex> the t440 excites me
<directhex> as in really excites me
<NET||abuse> i'm on an mba right now,, ugh
<directhex> i may drop the x230 from the supported HW list
<popey> NET||abuse: i like nice hardware
<popey> i can replace the OS â»
<directhex> i don't authorize purchase of apple laptops with company money
<NET||abuse> hmmm, but you can't run thunderbolt off it even with mac hardware
<directhex> not worth the metal they're hewn from.
<NET||abuse> linux just doesn't have the capability to drive thunderbolt hardware
<directhex> NET||abuse, well.actually.cat
<NET||abuse> that integrated periferals advanced display port just doesn't have any support in drivers / kernel
<directhex> NET||abuse, apple's implementation of thunderbolt is nonstandard, and the apple implementation is not available anywhere for someone to write a driver
<directhex> blame intel
<NET||abuse> blame canada!
<directhex> http://shop.lenovo.com/gb/en/laptops/thinkpad/t-series/t440s/
<NET||abuse> x230  12.5" HD (1366x768)   game over
<directhex> i'm on an x230, it's our current "top seller" as a company laptop
<bigcalm> Coming soon at what sort of price?
<popey> hence why i want a docking station
<popey> so i can use an external display
<NET||abuse> x1 carbon  14.0" Premium HD+ (1600x900)
<NET||abuse> winner
<popey> although I do like the xps13
<popey> 1080p
<directhex> t440s has a 1080p display, and a dock connector
<directhex> at 14"
<NET||abuse> 13.3in Full HD (1080p) ,hmmm, xps winner of the chicken dinner
<popey> heh
<bigcalm> I love how a VGA port has stuck around for so long
<NET||abuse> i'm well happy with the x1 today, but looking at that resolution screen,, plus a dock,,, oohh, ouch
<popey> also, Barton George is a nice guy and responds to people on G+
<mungbean> does the xps have removable battery then?
<popey> gosh, i googled xps13 and got the right, working page for once
<popey> http://www.dell.com/uk/business/p/xps-13-linux/pd
<popey> â¹ windows 8 spam
<popey> "5Battery is built-in to the laptop and is not replaceable by the customer.
<directhex> i love how ubuntu is the only option in the "microsoft operating system" category
<mungbean> xps and x1 both? sucks
<directhex> t440s has a built-in battery *and* a removable battery
<mungbean> i'm on my third d630 battery
<directhex> idea is you can swap batteries without being plugged in, e.g. in a plane
<popey> xps has "Killer Wireless-N, 1202 for Video & Voice w/ BT 4.0"
<popey> not sure I want murderous wifi
<mungbean> tablets get swapped instead of the battery :(
<penguin42> mungbean: Feel free to send me your tablets with dead batteries
<directhex> "The standard configuration of T440s includes (2) 3-cell batteries, one internal and one swappable. Power Bridge allows you to swap the rear battery without powering down your system. This is much needed for long flights or travelers who are away from power sources for an extended period of time."
<mungbean> i've replaced a touchpad battery
<mungbean> nearly destroyed the whole thing
<NET||abuse> hmm, xps 13 with 1080p,, i'm really supprised by that,
<NET||abuse> this isn't the sputnick thing is it?
<NET||abuse> and an i7 processor..
<NET||abuse> dang, x1 being some what more expensive,, i guess it's all builld quality
<mungbean> or dell have lower proit margins
<NET||abuse> hmm, maybe.
<mungbean> source good cheaper
<NET||abuse> ops here just didn't want to buy any dell
<popey> it is sputnik, yes NET||abuse
<NET||abuse> yeh, i seethat now.
<NET||abuse> i'm kind of amazed.
<popey> the xps is pretty nice
<popey> i know a few people with them
<NET||abuse> if i buy a personal machine, i'd be tempted
<mungbean> i like dell, random people i don't know seem to give them bad rep
<popey> dunno what battery life is like on linux
<popey> real world
<NET||abuse> that said, i kinda want a the opportunity to play a game or two on my personal machine :) I actually quite like tf2/l4d2 and some other not better games
<penguin42> popey: That dock thing is really neat
<popey> yeah, shame it doesn't work on linux
<popey> would be awesome
<penguin42> popey: Doesn't work?
<popey> yeah, had a few replies saying that
<NET||abuse>  1GB AMD Radeon HD Discrete Graphics  in the t440s,, interesting
<penguin42> all of it or just the displays?
<penguin42> NET||abuse: Oh that's nice, they've been using Nvidias for the W5[23]0's and they're a pain
<popey> http://www.polygon.com/2013/8/28/4667746/nintendo-2ds-coming-this-oct-for-129-99  # waaaaaat
<penguin42> popey: I mean it just looks like a chain of USB3 hubs with gige, and I assume some USB display adapters
<BronyOkami128> Hello guys and gals!
<popey> Hello.
<BronyOkami128> So... I'm guessing you all use Ubuntu?
<BronyOkami128> Or some variation.
<bigcalm> ...
<BronyOkami128> Stupid question?
<bigcalm> A little
<BronyOkami128> I'm new here, sorry.
<popey> Some do. Some do not.
<mungbean> with the exception of one or two weirdos who just like our company :P
<Laney> I. LOVE. THIS. COMPANY.
<BronyOkami128> Canonical?
<popey> DEVELOPERS ^C ^V
<mungbean> DANCE MONKEY BOY DANCE
 * Laney tries to imagine sabdfl screaming that
<popey> Not middle click paste of course, because that's BAD.
 * Laney fails
 * AlanBell grumbles at the middle click paste haters
 * Laney is one of them
<mungbean> did i miss something?
<Laney> down with middle click
<popey> https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-settings-daemon/commit/plugins/xsettings/gsd-xsettings-manager.c?id=696e04d41a485f84870a98c85b819979928b69e9
<popey> (which I pasted with middle click)
<AlanBell> gnome are planning to turn it off, because it is a feature Apple and Microsoft don't have
<mungbean> LOLzor
<Laney> I only ever do it when accidently tapping with three fingers
<Laney> so annoying
<bigcalm> Gah, what a horrible change to make
<NET||abuse> hmm, i love middle click
<Laney> haha, I knew it'd be hadess
<Laney> he loves the controversy
<NET||abuse> got a lenovo with the added benefit of the middle click mouse button on the trackpad
<popey> I have a middle mouse button \o/
<NET||abuse> gives my middle finger a second purpose
<popey> GNOME: Rendering mouse buttons obsolete since 2013.
<bashrc> What happens if you don't have a middle mouse button?
<czajkowski> NET||abuse: I go the i7 :)
<bigcalm> bashrc: press L and R at the same time
<mungbean> so everyones talking bout gnome again due to a troll change
<czajkowski> *got
<NET||abuse> czajkowski: arghh, damn you!!!
<AlanBell> http://xkcd.com/1172/
<czajkowski> NET||abuse: it's very pretty :)
 * czajkowski hugs Bones 
<czajkowski> bones being the name of the X1 :)
<bashrc> Another UAV running Ubuntu and ROS http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/914887915/spiri?ref=live
<bigcalm> AlanBell: haha
<mungbean> one day gnome will just be one big red button, and it won't even do anything
<NET||abuse> hehe, i like that xkcd entry
<popey> HOW MUCH
<bashrc> One bug red button called "shutdown"
<directhex> i think it's fair to say BronyOkami128 probably had a question, and we derailed them with a massive stream of tangents
<Laney> It's not really a troll change because they actually want to use the middle button for other things
<popey> directhex: you've changed
<bashrc> Middle button = self destruct?
<NET||abuse> Laney: yeh, but it's more fun to moan about how it annoys me even though i've not used gnome in 3 years
<mungbean> Laney: unless a doughnut pops out when you click middle click then i don't want the new thing
<directhex> popey, for the better?
<Laney> haha
<czajkowski> popey: no idea MongoDB bought it for me
<mungbean> directhex: the first new user to this chan in 8 weeks and they were scared off by loonies!
<mungbean> (i am included in that description)
<popey> czajkowski: not you, bigcalm
<NET||abuse> czajkowski: you working for 10gen now?
<bigcalm> popey: what?
<popey> s/10gen/mongodb llc/
<popey> 16:40:23 < bashrc> Another UAV running Ubuntu and ROS http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/914887915/spiri?ref=live
<popey> oh, sorry, missaw
<daftykins> poor new channel guy :(
<bigcalm> :P
<daftykins> directhex: and yeah - what've you done with the real directhex !?
<directhex> daftykins, he's naked & tied to the bed, naturally
<daftykins> D:
<NET||abuse> czajkowski: ok, mongodb inc :)
<daftykins> saucy is the word of the day.
<czajkowski> NET||abuse: I workfor MongoDB as their EMEA Community Manager :) http://www.mongodb.com/blog/post/whats-name
<mungbean> saucy saucisson
<NET||abuse> Say hi to Derek for me.
<czajkowski> NET||abuse: http://www.lczajkowski.com/2013/06/13/a-bite-of-something-new/
<czajkowski> NET||abuse: will do he's not in the office today :(
<NET||abuse> :) kay, he's probably coming to php london anyway
<mungbean> wow. so nintendo coulda made 3ds games work on the dsi XL but they release a 2ds? is that a joke?
<mungbean> it doesn't look foldable either
<directhex> mungbean, it's not foldable
<directhex> mungbean, what makes you think the games would work on dsi xl though?
<Laney> xnox: banshee is playing me britney spears
<Laney> xnox: somehow it made me think of you
<xnox> Laney: so you have britney?!..... that doesn't impress me much?!
<MartijnVdS> xnox: no that's not a Britney song
<directhex> that's shaniah twain, no?
<Laney> haha
<mungbean> directhex: you never know. but they made mrs mungbean sad when the new prof layoton only came out on 3ds when the dsi xl was still q new
<xnox> Laney: http://youtu.be/mqFLXayD6e8
<Laney> Toxic
<xnox> MartijnVdS: that's my prerogative!
<Laney> it's a quality song
 * daftykins will never consider Laney in the same light again
<MartijnVdS> Laney: because it's a cover
<directhex> mungbean, the 3ds has a dualcore 268MHz cpu, the dsi xl has a 133mhz single core, and a 33mhz single core
<Laney> is it?
<directhex> also 128 mb ram versus 16 mb
<mungbean> https://github.com/chrisallenlane/cheat sweet
<mungbean> making cli friendly
<directhex> basically the 3ds hardware is much better generationally than the dsi
<directhex> although both are jokes compared to a modern bottom-of-the-range smartphone
<mungbean> i think prof layton would have worked on the dsi
<mungbean> its a simple game
<mungbean> they just wanted to make anything older than 3ds obsolete , and lose customers
<daftykins> no way, we're talking about this 'revolutionary' new 2D handheld from Nintendo in another channel
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> Nintendo 2DS, ahh good old Nintendo
<mungbean> the 3d hurts the eyes of older people
<directhex> mungbean, well, do you mean the DSi, or the DS? the DSi has a higher clock speed
<mungbean> dsi. ds is pretty long in teh tooth now
<daftykins> i bought a DSi for GTA Chinatown Wars, it's on my shelf
<mungbean> whats that game?
<daftykins> grand theft auto
<daftykins> it's top-down kinda like the original GTA1
<mungbean> any good?
<directhex> mungbean, there are more 3DSes sold than DSi's
<daftykins> yeah it has some great uses of the touchscreen and stylus :)
<daftykins> a mini in-game system of um... certain substance trading
<mungbean> i never knew more adult games existed
<daftykins> also, i had a couple of the Prof. Layton games
<daftykins> well, still do
<mungbean> gta chinatown is Â£10 on amazon
<mungbean> any other games i should know about?
<mungbean> for the dsi
<daftykins> i never bought anything more
<mungbean> mario 64
<mungbean> is really good
<mungbean> directhex: total sales?
<directhex> mungbean, lifetime sales to date, yes. they didn't sell many DSi's
<directhex> DS and DS Lite sold well
<mungbean> are they all compatible? ds /dsi/ds lite
<daftykins> pretty sure all the DSi lost was a second cart slot - which was maybe a GBA one?
<directhex> DS and DS Lite can play DS and GBA games
<directhex> DSi and DSi XL can play DS and DSi games
<directhex> although DSi-only games are download-only
<SuperMatt> is there an app I can run like "theapp python script.py" and get the amount of memory it has consumed (or something?)
<ali1234> SuperMatt: yes, valgrind
<ali1234> although python probably has something much more efficient built in
<MartijnVdS> is there a "bash -x" like switch for python?
<ali1234> what does bash -x do?
<MartijnVdS> same as "set -x"
<MartijnVdS>               -x      After expanding each simple command, for  command,  case
<MartijnVdS>                       command, select command, or arithmetic for command, disâ
<MartijnVdS>                       play the expanded value of PS4, followed by the  command
<MartijnVdS>                       and its expanded arguments or associated word list.
<ali1234> what does that mean?
<ali1234> print each line of code before executing it?
<ali1234> maybe this: http://docs.python.org/2/library/trace.html
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: yeah, that's what it means
<MartijnVdS> fun: $ ls -lh /proc/kcore
<mungbean> humble "comedy" bundle
<mungbean> i assume they are all american.
<diddledan> yeah, I'm not buying that one
<breezer_> the uupc page doesnt say the irc channel for the live one after the first half-hour..
 * penguin42 wonders if there are any stats things hsowing which irc channels are moderately active these days
<ali1234> penguin42: irc.netsplit.de
<mungbean> i just invoked the HUD...forgot it existed
<mungbean> was by mistake
<AlanBell> heh
<penguin42> ali1234: Hmm, I see stats on number of users for the channels but not actual lines typed
<AlanBell> my hud still works too, never use it though
<AlanBell> I do like the idea of menus being a single api and multiple ways of accessing menus, I just don't much like the global menu or the hud
<AlanBell> a circle menu on mouse click would be nice
<ali1234> i usually just go to a channel and start talking to myself
<mungbean> lol
<ali1234> someone eventually joins in
<mungbean> i've done that and idled for a week before
<penguin42> haha
<mungbean> only ever saw detached voices
<mungbean> nobody ever responded to anyone else
<penguin42> interestingly the graphs for freenode on netsplit seem to show approx constant user numbers
<ali1234> why is that interesting?
<penguin42> for the last couple of years
<SuperEngineer> sorry, what was that... I wasn't listening  ;)
<mungbean> irc seems to fulfil the 20-80 rule
<mungbean> 20% of people produce 80% of traffic, the other 80% are mostly idle
<ali1234> i've often wondered who all the people are who idle
<mungbean> yeah
<mungbean> like chof...
<mungbean> not gonna wake him/her with a hilight
<ali1234> i think a lot of them have too many irc windows open
<mungbean> there's an old notion of "catch me idling on irc"
<mungbean> the devs like to do instead of email
<ali1234> freenode should implement zenmoo style anti-idling measures
<mungbean> why?
<ali1234> because it would be amusing
<mungbean> this is realtively high traffic channel and lots of offtopic convo
<ali1234> it would be off-channel
<mungbean> but for the 15 users of debian-itanium its useful to idle in there
 * penguin42 tries to remember, has he ever booted debian on itanium - hmm don't think Debian
<ali1234> rhythmbox has a dependency on zeitgeist now?
<ali1234> not just libzeitgeist either, it needs the whole thing
<funkyHat> ali1234: according to http://packages.ubuntu.com/saucy/rhythmbox it has a recommends on rhythmbox-plugin-zeitgeist
<ali1234> hmm recommends is different to suggests right?
<funkyHat> ali1234: yes, with default settings recommends get pulled in when you install, but you can override them
<ali1234> i'll just remove them again after install then i guess, since i don't know how to override :)
<ali1234> already uninstalled it once today after i installed gedit
<funkyHat> ali1234: --no-install-recommends
<funkyHat> ali1234: or if you use aptitude interactively you can select rhythmbox then deselect the plugin (it might complain but you will be able to tell it to ignore that specific recommends)
<ali1234> i never use aptitude since it offered me 300 different solutions when i only wanted to install one package
<ali1234> it's done now
<funkyHat> ali1234: the first solution is nearly always the one you want â¢)
#ubuntu-uk 2013-08-29
<moodoo> morning all
<popey> Good morning
<AlanBell> morning
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bashrc> hello
<mungbean> what's the convention for dealing with emails from google recruiters?
<popey> mungbean: depends if you're interested or not really
<diddledan_> it's google, of course he's interested :-p
<directhex> well... google send out a LOT of speculative recruiter mail
<directhex> only a tiny fraction of people who pass the phone interview then pass the meatspace interview
<mungbean> yes directhex , so is it OK to ignore
<Laney> i usually get repeatedly hassled if i try that one
<Laney> to ever increasing numbers of email addresses, including work ones
<directhex> mungbean, if you want to jump through hoops for the slim possibility of a 60 hour a week job in london, then reply
<directhex> otherwise, ignore
<mungbean> i used to do that in my 20s..got burnt out..only just recovering
<directhex> see also http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2011-12-19/
<mungbean> i think the crazy working life will calm down soon now they are a mature company
<mungbean> lots of the startup trendies will leave
<bigcalm> Talking of crazy hours, is davmor2 on holiday or been shipped off to the USA?
<mungbean> maybe its a good idea to send them my cv and say pop that on your file for later
<Laney> just say "No thanks, but I'll contact you if my circumstances change"
<directhex> they don't need your cv
<directhex> they know how to find it on bing.
<mungbean> nobody has it
<bigcalm> Fnar
<diddledan_> googlers bing for CVs? is that because the google index is too vast? and can bing be used as a verb in that way similarly to google?
<mungbean> i would love to see the meeting where they decided bing was a good name
<mungbean> i just wrote "rack unitys" in an email
<diddledan_> I don't believe they did decide it was a good name. they just decided it was a name
<mungbean> fingers want to type unity
<Laney> bing demonstrates the power of the focus group to come up with inspiring brand ideas
<mungbean> i'm launching a new search engine called bishbashbosh
<mungbean> just bishbashbosh it
<diddledan_> lol
<diddledan_> what about "wibble"?
<shauno> you can't wibble it.  not even just a little bit.  it sounds too much like a 90s flashback
<dwatkins> How about flibble?
<dwatkins> You could have plush characters called Mister Flibble and Mrs Flibble...
<diddledan_> ooh aah just wibble it, ooh aah wibble it more!
<mungbean> anyone tried the forthcoming gnome calendar app?
 * dwatkins has to put some music on to drown out the sounds of 80s pop running around in his head now
<mungbean> i'll drown it out
<diddledan_> :-)
<mungbean> tongue-tied...leaving me tongue -tied tongue-tied
<dwatkins> ningy nongy!
<mungbean> now get that sucker out of your head
<dwatkins> darble derble
<mungbean> from my head down to my liver...
<dwatkins> easy, I have an e-mail from a German customer to translate and some nice loud psy trance drowning out any part of my brain that's not in use ;)
<shauno> german customers are awesome.  there's no bug report like a german bug report.
<dwatkins> shauno: indeed, they point out the flaws in the documentation by taking it apart word-by-word
<mungbean> i spent 10 hours on the phone to a german support company once
<mungbean> could have been fixed in 30 mins i reckon
<jpds> mungbean: Luxury, I spent months in Germany this year.
<dwatkins> my German customers ask about lines in logfiles which most people would simply ignore
<mungbean> i had to take toilet breaks while on the call
<jpds> dwatkins: It's all about prefection.
<dwatkins> jpds: prefection, you say
<bashrc> I never liked being a prefect
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<mungbean> morning uncle brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning mungbean
<mungbean> i was on the tube this morning and the driver braked hard then accelerated for another 50yds. woman fell over. two men leapt up to help her, she was ignoring them presumably as she was embarrassed at falling over :S
<mungbean> awkward
<brobostigon> yes, definatly awkward, but they did the right thing, in trying to help her.
<DJones> Google/Android is getting clever, sharing wifi key's between devices, input a wifi key on one device, came to set up a 2nd device and it was already connected
<brobostigon> yes, and can be useful, but you do wonder if that information is transferred encrypted or in cleartext.
<popey> thats been around for quite some time I think
<DJones> I hadn't come across it, one of those 'Oh' moments
<NET||abuse> hi guys, i'm trying to pair an apple magic mouse to ubuntu, so system settings->bluetooth search for devices, Pin Options use 0000, find the mouse add it, it says device added, but then in the main blue tooth window the mouse is there but paired:no, connection: Off
<NET||abuse> I try to flip the connection switch to on, it tries for a minute but fails.
<popey> NET||abuse: do you have hid-magicmouse loaded?
<popey> lsmod | grep magic
<NET||abuse> nope, doesn't look like it :)
<popey> filename:       /lib/modules/3.11.0-4-generic/kernel/drivers/hid/hid-magicmouse.ko
<popey> looks like it exists
<ikonia> I'd be interested in seeing how you find using a magic mouse
<ikonia> (in linux)
<popey> (on my saucy box)
<ikonia> popey: do you use one ?
<NET||abuse> yup, i'll let you know, i just don't have another mouse right now.
<popey> nope, i have a magic trackpad
<ikonia> not quite the same,
<popey> dont use that either now I have my keyboard to kill all keyboards
<popey> indeed
<NET||abuse> well i hav a usb one, but my only 2 usb ports are taken up with ethernet adapter and keyboard
<ikonia> popey: keyboard to kill all keyboard, you can't drop that without details
<popey> trying to find a link
<popey> P/N 55Y9091
<popey> http://www.amazon.com/ThinkPad-USB-Keyboard-with-TrackPoint/dp/B002ONCC6G
<popey> that
<popey> (but UK layout)
<ikonia> ahh, I know the one,
<ikonia> so you actually use that as your day to day keyboard. Interesting
<popey> yes
<popey> two, one on laptop (in docking station) and one on desktop
<popey> means I have the same layout whether on desk or lap
<popey> and never have to move hands from keyboard to use mouse
<mungbean> popey: you might like this
<mungbean> https://github.com/chrisallenlane/cheat
<popey> i am aware of that â»
<popey> nice idea
<popey> in fact I'll add it to the notes for the podcast, ta
<AlanBell> that is a nice idea, just the interesting bits of man pages :)
<mungbean> trying to buy GTA chinatown for DS now :S
<mungbean> we have problems with new users who are scared of CLI but have to use the cluster. this is ideal
<AlanBell> CLI based GTA??
<mungbean> two different threads..:P
<Laney> you get points for rm-ing arbitrary files as root
<dwatkins> haha, that would be awesome (CLI GTA)
<mungbean> isnt that called dope wars?
 * dwatkins fondly remembers Twin Kingdom Valley and other such text-based adventure games
<mungbean> \o/
<mungbean> open grate
<mungbean> it is locked
<diddledan_> unlock grate
<diddledan_> >.<
<mungbean> a grate is open
<mungbean> rendered the pics as u went along
<mungbean> nevr actually finished it. i think i have some unfinished business in my life
<dwatkins> yeah, I just remember getting killed a lot in TKV by gorillas, but its simple pictures inspired me at the time
<popey> There's still a bunch of people who make interactive fiction
<popey> there's a competition every year called ifcomp
<mungbean> i looked at making some myself
<mungbean> the app was quite involved and looks like hard work
<popey> http://ifcomp.org/
<popey> got a month left to enter http://ifcomp.org/comp13/schedule.html
<bashrc> Maybe you could write an IF about attending a LUG or installing Gentoo.  "You see a command line prompt..."
<dwatkins> bashrc: I'm reminded of "L - a mathemagical adventure" in which you control a computer which is playing an adventure game...
<dwatkins> Clearly the writers of the film Inception played this as children ;)
<mungbean> wow, freemind has made v1.0
<shauno> so did calibre, after 7 years
<bashrc> Maybe there coule be an IF about a UDS.  "You try to connect to a hangout..."  "You can see a man on the screen.  He appears to be playing a guitar"
<popey> czajkowski: http://imgur.com/gallery/DwdJdIc
<bigcalm> Oh my!
<czajkowski> awww
<czajkowski> :D
<bigcalm> Eye brows are almost out of control. Do I enjoy the weird look as I age or allow them to be trimmed?
<directhex> bigcalm, pluck them, leaving only the monobrow join in the middle
<directhex> like a little moustache on your forehead
<mungbean> my terminal crashed :(
<mungbean> but unusual
<mungbean> not sure i wanna go with freemind anymore..chrome apps seem to fill that gap now
<bigcalm> directhex: hummmmm
<bigcalm> No
<directhex> i'm tellin' ya, it'll be all the rage next year
<mungbean> i have a file in /var/crash, why isn't ubuntu-bug adding it to the bug report?
<NET||abuse> hmm, x1 only has  usb ports. bit of a challenge, need a port replicator
<NET||abuse> display port works for now for external monitor, maybe i only need a usb hub
<shauno> strange question.  what would cause "." to have an unexpected size?
<directhex> howso?
<penguin42> unexpected?
<shauno> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6040001/   (that's the entire contents of the dir)
<shauno> I can't figure out why "." is 700K for an empty folder.  it's usually 4K
<penguin42> shauno: It's just had zillions of files in at one point
<penguin42> shauno: Or files with silly long names
<shauno> hm, I guess I wasn't expecting it to stay inflated  (it's a maildir, so a zillion files is about right)
<slvr> ext3 doesn't
<slvr> garbage collect empty blocks in a directory
<penguin42> what does ls -lsd of . say
<shauno> 704 drwxr-xr-x 2 soneil soneil 716800 2013-08-29 12:22 .
<penguin42> hmm so it's actually using a lot of blocks as well
<shauno> was just curious because I'm trying to figure out where the mails are actually going, so having du lie to me keeps sending me up the wrong tree
<shauno> I've misplaced ~90,000 emails.  it's slightly embarrassing.
<NET||abuse> uhg,, having a bit of a 'mare with virtualbox repo server
<NET||abuse> keeps grinding to a halt
<NET||abuse> LUNCH!!
<bigcalm> Bash - how does one check if $1 has been passed in?
<diddledan_> [ -z "$1" ]
<bigcalm> if [$1] will that do?
<diddledan_> -z checks whether the string is empty and returns true if it is
<bigcalm> Thanks
<bigcalm> Yay, just found I can Alt Gr + - to get my \ back
<bigcalm> Now, where might the pipe be hiding I wonder
<bigcalm> 0.123456789*-+
<bigcalm> Oops
<Dave2> not there.
<MartijnVdS> reverse polish?
<Dave2> that's your num pad
<bigcalm> |
<bigcalm> There is is :)
<bigcalm> Alt Gr + `
<bigcalm> Or is it a different pipe symbol I wonder
<MartijnVdS> that's a different one I think
<mungbean> shauno: i wonder if there were files in there that got deleted or /dev/nulled but the process wasn't restarted so the file system has a handle on them still
<bigcalm> This keyboard: |          Other keyboard with working key: |
<mungbean> try lsof for that dir
<mungbean> my local sainsburys had loads of sandwiches "use by 28 aug" still for sale at 12:30pm today
<brobostigon> ST2 TWOK, film4, :)
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: if you tell them about that, they should fix that. If they don't, call in officials :)
<mungbean> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/northkorea/10272953/Kim-Jong-uns-ex-lover-executed-by-firing-squad.html
<mungbean> wow. don't date kim jong un
<mungbean> MartijnVdS: i think i'll advise head office instead
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: oh that should work :)
<mungbean> local staff will fix it while you are looking and then...
<willwill100> yo
<shauno> mungbean: nothing that complicated, they just get mv'd out once they've been parsed
<shauno> (and I don't have 90,000 copies of the parser hanging around - I checked ;)
<MartijnVdS> ... @ http://www.reddit.com/r/britishproblems/comments/1lbkgy/kentish_town_doesnt_look_like_kent_at_all/
<MartijnVdS> also.. http://i.imgur.com/fF37MoB.png
<bigcalm> Hehe
<mgdm> 'armless fun
<MartijnVdS> I didn't know she was a runner
<mungbean> talktalk prices going up
<mungbean> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/556341540/pressy-the-almighty-android-button?ref=category
<mungbean> extra button for your phone
<mgdm> How on earth do you remove that?
<popey> what a brilliant idea
<popey> finger nails?
<mgdm> Nice idea, but I use my phone as a music player too often so I'd lose it :)
<mungbean> yes, it sits a little proud
<mungbean> mgdm: there's a key ring holder too
<popey> http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/556341540/pressy-the-almighty-android-button/
<mgdm> mungbean: oh yes, didn't clock that's what it was
<ali1234> .... that's the stupidest thing i've ever seen
<mungbean> ali1234: so you want one?
<popey> haha
<mungbean> it requires an app though
<popey> I'm sure someone will reverse engineer it
<ali1234> reverse engineer it??
<ali1234> it's a switch and a connector
<mungbean> double click for airplane mode
<mungbean> one click for set alarm for the babby's feed
<ali1234> also they're in for patent trouble
<ali1234> it works exactly like how inline headphone remote controls work
<ali1234> and that stuff is all patented by sony
<mungbean> better buy one now then
<mgdm> You could use it with a headphone extension cable and have a remote shutter for your camera, like real SLRs have! <stupid_idea>
<mungbean> they also have the monster cable version
<ali1234> mgdm: that is probably the least stupid use for it there is
<mungbean> there's plenty of accessibility uses
<shauno> I actually do the reverse, and use my phone as a remote shutter for my camera
<mungbean> blind people can use it to answer calls
<dwatkins> I'd like to build one of those attachments for the Nintendo DS that can be used to control a DSLR.
<mgdm> I have an el-cheapo intervalometer off eBay (clone of a far more expensive Canon one)
<dwatkins> I'm waiting for my Thermodo to be delivered, I couldn't have anything else in my headphone socket.
<mungbean> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/520589318/switchy-carbon-fiber-key-holder
<shauno> I have an ebay intervalometer too.  still prefer the phone.  has some neat tricks
<mungbean> swiss key ring
<ali1234> that's actually a fairly good idea
<shauno> (like tweening the interval over time)
<dwatkins> none of my keys are the same shape #firstworldproblems
<ali1234> i just don't have that many keys
<dwatkins> that too, I have three that I use - two for my front door, one for the bike.
<dwatkins> oh and one for the room I keep my bike in, and two of those are 5-lever, the other two are yale
<mungbean> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2065501355/smartkey-free-your-pocket
<mungbean> stormfly :-|
<mungbean> the $99 usb stick
<mungbean> ugh http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/22595538/the-killing-of-tony-blair?ref=discover_pop
<mungbean> cannot stand that man
<bigcalm> Is there any one decent Android-on-a-stick TV dongle around? My main use will be streaming videos from mediatomb (on server) via MediaHouse-Pro (android)
<slvr> The prblem with all those compact key solutions is that I have non-flat keys. Bike keys, cylindrical keys, security fobs.
<slvr> I haven't actually tested any of those dongles, but I was surprised to find the GameStick in a local GAME store
<bigcalm> Contemplating this as it has the least bad reviews: http://www.amazon.co.uk/SainSmart-MK802IIIS-Bluetooth-OpenVG1-1-Certificate/dp/B00B18K4T2
<popey> http://www.polygon.com/2013/8/29/4671408/minecraft-update-set-to-overhaul-world-generator
<ali1234> bigcalm: any particular reason you want android?
<bigcalm> ali1234: so that I can also use my existing paid for apps
<bigcalm> ali1234: and I like Android
<mungbean> i tried grabbing a apk on my paid for app and couldn't find it the other day
<ali1234> that might be a problem if you buy a cheapo android device... they usually don't support the market
<bigcalm> Boo
<ali1234> i like android too though
<ali1234> the description of that one you linked claims it has google play
<ali1234> i would get that independently verified before buying though
<bigcalm> I would expect such an omission to make it into the reviews of the device. Haven't seen as such
<bigcalm> Sod it
 * bigcalm clicks a button
<bigcalm> How might I find out if the USB socket on my TV is powered or not?
<ali1234> it should have a special symbol if it's a charging socket
<ali1234> according to wikipedia it might also be yellow
<bigcalm> LE37B551A6WQXU
<neuro> samsung 5 series?
<bigcalm> Samsung yes
<bigcalm> No idea about the series :)
<neuro> scary that i recognise that
<bigcalm> That's the model code
<bigcalm> Haha
 * neuro had an LE40N87BDX
<neuro> well, has, it's up in my spare room with a busted PSU
<bigcalm> :(
<popey> Yellow ones power when on standby
<bigcalm> I can't find my tv's code on the Samsung website :(
 * popey wants a new telly
<bigcalm> Me too, but an android dongle is the cheaper alternative :)
<neuro> me too
<neuro> i've picked mine out already
<neuro> now i just need to win the lottery before they start charging more
<neuro> "If a device requires high power (more than 500mA or 5V), the USB device may not be supported."
<neuro> suggests powered to me
<bigcalm> http://www.amazon.co.uk/JUSTOP-2000mA-Charger-Adapter-Supply/dp/B00AQGDDUC/ref=pd_sim_ce_5
<bigcalm> neuro: where are you reading that?
<neuro> from the manual
<bigcalm> For what device?
<neuro> http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/UM/200907/20090721125927046/BN68-02315G-00Eng-0608.pdf
<neuro> your tv
<bigcalm> Yay
<bigcalm> How did you find it?
<gordonjcp> neuro: what happened to the PSU, and is it repairable?
<neuro> no idea, no idea
<gordonjcp> hmm, I need to do the PSU on my panasonic soon
<neuro> allegedly blown pots are common, i cba opening it to look since i'm not sparky knowledgable
<gordonjcp> weird ripply interference when I'm using certain inputs
<neuro> that could just be shonky cables
<gordonjcp> no, it's different cables
<gordonjcp> ^there
<neuro> fair dues
<gordonjcp> bah, cannot english today
<neuro> YOU ENGLISH, ENGLISJ HARD
<mungbean> had 15 mins left on the acution, got distracted with work, suddenly auction finished 30 mins ago :(
<Myrtti> went to get my new broadband gateway from the mail
<Myrtti> http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/2931896241 wwwhhheheeeeee
<SuperMatt> good stuff
<bigcalm> Funky
 * funkyHat 
<imanc>  identify
<diddledan_> aww, no password, imanc ?
<diddledan_> :-p
<bigcalm> My name is my passport, verify me
<bigcalm> Damn it
<diddledan_> sneakers, interesting movie
<diddledan_> and it's my voice is my passport :-p
<bigcalm> That might be your password, it's not mine :P
<diddledan_> lol
<diddledan_> good point
<diddledan_> lastpass ftwt
<diddledan_> s/wt/w/
<ali1234> AlanBell: was it you talking about the animal wallpapers?
<ali1234> i just found out they're all by vladstudio.com
<ali1234> well, both of them
<AlanBell> lots of other nice ones there too
<MartijnVdS> any movie freaks in here? :)
<MartijnVdS> as in, very interested in movies and the people who make them
<daftykins> what are you driving at ^_^
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: people like that would probably like to watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7RoL1FUR1g
<daftykins> i don't recognise the names :D
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: "Some of his best known works were National Lampoon's Animal House, the music video Thriller, The Blues Brothers, and Beverly Hills Cop III."
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: the other one is a Mythbuster
<daftykins> ah-har
<micky> connect uk.irc.flightgear.org
<bigcalm> Good evening peeps :)
<daftykins> Buy a Samsung Chromebook, get a free smartphone 0o
<daftykins> http://www.google.com/intl/en_uk/chrome/devices/samsung-chromebook-offer.html
<Azelphur> that's cool, but doesn't list a price
<daftykins> 'cause it's linking to other stores
<daftykins> i'm browsing around
<daftykins> Â£193.89 samsung one on amazon UK 0o
<Azelphur> what phone does it come with?
<daftykins> a samsung galaxy mini apparently
<Azelphur> nothing worth phoning home about then
<daftykins> see what y'did there XD
<daftykins> hah ah yes, a gingerbread relic
<daftykins> http://www.johnlewis.com/samsung-xe303c12-h01-chromebook-exynos-5250-1-7ghz-wi-fi-3g-11-6-silver/p231740131
<daftykins> that one gets Â£50 off, so is Â£249 and the phone
<daftykins> even worse, it's froyo if it means the mini v1
<penguin42> cyanogenable?
<daftykins> spec is so bad it wouldn't even be worth it
<daftykins> 320x240 display with <200MB o' RAM
<daftykins> nevermind :)
<penguin42> I thought the Nexus4 had dropped to a pretty good price
<daftykins> i can't even view the store without proxying via the UK
<daftykins> what's the 16GB gone down to?
<penguin42> 199
<daftykins> !
<daftykins> i got mine for 299 earlier in the year
<penguin42> 8GB for 159
<daftykins> i think it was around that anyway
<penguin42> larger sizes are always rip offs
<daftykins> yeah :(
<daftykins> when i shop Dell for clients i do my own upgrades XD
<dutchie> twice the size for less than twice the money!
<dutchie> wait
<dutchie> nvm
<dutchie> ;)
<penguin42> daftykins: Yeh crucial for RAM
<daftykins> :D
<penguin42> daftykins: although if you get a regular Dell sales contact they used to be very flexible
<daftykins> i tried to keep getting the same outsourced gentleman, but sometimes they'd be out of the office and their colleagues would climb over their own mother to get you to buy
<penguin42> daftykins: Oh yeh it's great; it's like 'ok how much cna you *reallly* squeeze that down to'
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> maybe i should threaten to switch back to their pals
<daftykins> doubt i'll be talking to them again anytime soon though
<penguin42> daftykins: I used to enjoy dealing with them - you could really squeeze them and get what you want; my only problem was after I'd trained one of their sales guys in how to handle me they'd get promoted
<daftykins> d'aww :(
#ubuntu-uk 2013-08-30
<moodoo> morning all
<SuperMatt> morning
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bashrc> g'day
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<MartijnVdS> hi brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi MartijnVdS
<jussi> hrrr
<jussi> sickness hrrrrrr
<MartijnVdS> jussi: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_with_the_Sickness ?
<jussi> MartijnVdS: no. :P
<MartijnVdS> jussi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XNrs5dYDBs ?
 * MartijnVdS has too much music
<jussi> MartijnVdS: way too much :P
<MartijnVdS> jussi: I'm about to fill up my first BILLYÂ® with CDs 8-)
<popey> Morning
<mungbean> lots of free apps in amazon android app store today
<mungbean> most of you might have them already
<mungbean> but good for cheapskates
<bashrc> I tend to stick to f-droid
<bashrc> Free as in freeware apps tend to contain a lot of unwanted stuff
<mungbean> these are paid apps on offer
<mungbean> i.e. swiftkey, and various games, shazam pro, etc
<funkyHat> So the amazon app store actually works in the UK now?
<dwatkins> it has for a while, I thought, funkyHat
<funkyHat> dwatkins: I haven't tried it for ages
<dwatkins> it exists on Android, certainly
<jussi> funkyHat: disappointed in  you...
<jussi> not seen any funkyHats for ages!!!!
 * popey wonders what was in the 4.3 update I just applied
<popey> changelogs ftw
<jussi> popey: the prism incusion patch?
<jussi> :P
<popey> Guess so
<funkyHat> jussi: â¢(
<bigcalm> Listening to Orbital and I'm reminded of Abe's Oddworld. But I can't figure out if the music sounds like that in the game, or I just listened to a lot of Orbital the 1st time around
 * penguin42 waits impatiently for his Virgin
<mungbean> :-|
<mungbean> had to wait 30yrs for that
<penguin42> due by 6pm....
<popey> holy cow. that first run video I made has been viewed ~5000 times
<mungbean> first run of?
<mungbean> ubuphone?
<popey> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HreKruXnn_A
<popey> ya
<popey> should have monetised it.. estimated earnings $1.55!
<mungbean> you only get the cash when you earn $100 innit?
<mungbean> probably the entire earnings from unity-lens-shopping
<mungbean> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGbz5yhbwH8
<mungbean> "dave"
<mungbean> his other ubuntu 12 on android vid got 300k views
<popey> quite like https://www.youtube.com/user/marquesbrownlee his videos
<dvrr> good morning everyone
<penguin42> good afternoon :-)
<dvrr> moodoo:
<dvrr> hIIIIIIIIIII
<popey> yo
<shauno> lvm inside virtual machines makes me a sad puppy :(  trying to convert a vmdk, and it's hurdle after hurdle  (especially since it needs to end up scriptable)
<penguin42> shauno: Why? It's easier to deal with an lvm of an image than a partitioned image
<shauno> I already have to deal with the partitioned image either way
<diddledan_> shauno, that sounds evil
<diddledan_> shauno, in other news the pub grub was good just now
<shauno> it's not difficult.  it's just proving difficult to automate
<shauno> I really don't want to resort to having a list of files that I expect to be in given places, to try to match which partition was mounted where
<penguin42> shauno: Which bit is turning out difficult to automate?
<shauno> breaking the partitions out is tedious.  trying to match them to mtab is what's getting me atm
<penguin42> oh so you're trying to mount them in the same place as they're mounted in the system?
<shauno> right.  trying to re-assemble them as a single disk image
<penguin42> shauno: I thought ext filesystems typically had a record of where they were last mounted
<penguin42> shauno: Yeh, try   dumpe2fs /path  it has entries like:    Last mounted on:          /media/dg/spinnyroot
<MartijnVdS> spinnyroot? as in "spinning rust"?
<penguin42> nod
<shauno> penguin42: hah, that's what I was looking for.  I was trying to get it out of debugfs, which is even more cryptic
<penguin42> shauno: Haha yes I tried debugfs first as well but fortunately the see also on the man page reminded me of it
<shauno> turns out tune2fs -l is where I'd seen it.  sadly both are giving me ast mounted on:          <not available>
<shauno> but at least you found the tree I was barking up, so I can quit chasing my tail on that one
 * penguin42 wonders why it has a not-available
<Laney> oh dookie
<Laney> what a great album you are
 * mgdm fires up Nimrod
<mgdm> as I know it's a different album, but Nice Guys Finish Last just appeared in my head
<Laney> also a decent one
<Laney> i'm listening to Funeral For A Friend now
<mgdm> Never got into them
<Laney> meeting up with my school friends this evening
<Laney> so revising some tunes from those days
<daftykins> ^_^
<mgdm> hehe
<daftykins> a band that played at a local event are worth a listen, apparently they often supported FFaF
<daftykins> 'Mallory Knox'
<Laney> oh yeah that rings a bell
<daftykins> they're recent
<Laney> I saw FFAF like 10 times
 * Laney goes misty eyed
<daftykins> ;)
<daftykins> this weekend is a big event over on the neighbouring island of Jersey
<daftykins> i recognise nobody beyond Fatboy Slim playing X|
<daftykins> Â£100 tickets anyway, no chance :D
<Laney> heh
<Laney> go find a pub near the fence
<daftykins> XD
 * penguin42 isn't sure he understands what the 'Resume' flag is on G+ as of today
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/de5fjwhlnxtw6tm/nola.jpg
<daftykins> nice little panorama i just put together from my roadtrip to the US last year
<daftykins> New Orleans there
<penguin42> daftykins: Is it still recovering from the mess a few years back?
<penguin42> that's a very fairytail building in the middle
<daftykins> it had just had a bit of a trashing before we got there
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: resume flag?
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Do you get the '2 new' type of thing appearing next to your stream? As of today I keep getting one marked 'resume'
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/aat11hxg8lv9uyg/yosemite.jpg
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: sometimes, maybe "resume" is about conversations you've participated in before?
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: I don't think so but difficult to tell
<mungbean> if i'm doing ssl certs for www.flib.flob.com and the hostname is fred.baz.flob.com , but there are A/PTR records for www.flib.flob.com pointing to that machine, will it be OK, ok will there be issues?
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: no, unless the certificate has Subject Alternative Names (SAN)
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: with both names in it
<SuperMatt> FYI the transcend wifi SD card is nicely hackable :D
<SuperMatt> http://haxit.blogspot.in/2013/08/hacking-transcend-wifi-sd-cards.html
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: yeah it's an ARM with Linux and wifi,isn't it?
<mungbean> ok MartijnVdS cheers
<SuperMatt> we've been following that guide and now we have a web server listening on any hostname and serving up video
<SuperMatt> MartijnVdS: that's the one
<SuperMatt> next up, we're going to get a 3.3V battery, connect it to pins 4 and 6, and TADA, we have a portable wireless 16G of video
<MartijnVdS> also, TINY
<SuperMatt> indeed
<MartijnVdS> so.. has anyone tried Prison Architect?
<mungbean> there's a new channel called "true entertainment".
<mungbean> i rescan my tv box and have a look at whats showing
<mungbean> ...
<mungbean> the waltons
<mgdm> hahaha
<mungbean> i want my time and money back
<mungbean> not to worry, little house on the prairie is on tomorrow :(
<mgdm> it's like Sunday afternoons on C4 from 20 years ago
<ali1234> could someone on 13.04 run dpkg-query -L indicator-sound | pastebinit and send me the link please?
<DJones> ali1234: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6044747/
<ali1234> thanks
<ali1234> as i thought, you have a libsoundmenu.so
<ali1234> that's mysteriously disappeared on saucy. the way indicators work has been totally changed
<mungbean> argh cannot change g+ cover photo back to a small one:?
<daftykins> *world ends*
<mungbean> they tricked me
<mungbean> why do you need a massive screen sized photo?
<penguin42> right, that's better apt-get claiming over 4MB/s - which shouldn't happen since it's supposedly 30Mbps - but can't argue
<bigcalm> penguin42: I regularly got 3.7MB/s on my 30Mb/s VM cable connection. I now get a solid 7.5MB/s on the upgraded 60Mb/s connection
<penguin42> bigcalm: What did it say on the contract - L30 or XL30 ?
<bigcalm> penguin42: good question
<bigcalm> I thought XL was 50/100
<bigcalm> I'm on mates rates, so whatever that gives :)
<penguin42> hmm
<penguin42> so I think the 'resume' tag they've put in, is that when you click the '3 more' things that come up, it remembers where you were, and resume takes you back to it
<shauno> I've given up on trying to dump those disk images.  decided it'll be much less fighting to just be clevererer about the next step instead
<penguin42> shauno: What were you actually trying to do?
<shauno> I need to inject files into pre-built VMs
<shauno> I thought the lazy option would be to move everything into a single partition, and then just unzip my payload over the top.  I thought wrong :)
<penguin42> how big is your payload?
<shauno> embarassingly small (just some config files)
<penguin42> shauno: do you know where / is ?
<shauno> it just needs some tweaks because the application hosted on the VM makes some reasonable assumptions (eg, internet connectivity, licence servers) that aren't true in the lab environment
<shauno> yeah, / I can pin down (find -name home)
<penguin42> so drop it into / and track an entry into /etc/rc.local or /etc/rc.d
<ali1234> why can't you just mount the images and do whatever?
<shauno> that's what I'm doing so far, it's just messy trying to figure out which partition is which, because I have a lot of directories with the same names
<ali1234> if the VMs are prebuilt, are the partitions all the same?
<shauno> they vary a lot across different versions.  seems someone can't make their mind up which distro they're building on top of
<ali1234> check boot partition for bootloader config to get /, check / to get fstab and the rest of the partitions?
<diddledan> ali1234: that sounds almost sensible
<shauno> that's where I got to the first time around.  worked fine on my VM, exploded on production because I made assumptions about vg0
<ali1234> heh, lvm
<diddledan> hmm, why is os x mavericks not outputting audio to both my headphone-socket-connected speakers?
<diddledan> </ot>
<shauno> you're getting mono out the headphone jack?
<diddledan> shauno: yup
<shauno> dirty?  pushed in all the way?
<diddledan> ok, it must have been dirty
<diddledan> I've just pulled it out and wiped it with my dirty fat fingers and it's working now
<penguin42> jack connectors work by more look than anything else
<shauno> I'm magic :)
<diddledan> shauno: you should know by now that you're my lucky mascot
<shauno> well, it looks ugly, but find | grep whole/chunk/of/path seems to work
<diddledan> eww, lol
<diddledan> hmm, can I stretch to a cinema display? I think now
<diddledan> not*
<shauno> I have roughly the same folder layout on 4 different partitions.  it's not sensible.
<ali1234> there must be some difference, else what is the point?
<shauno> some contain legions of .jars, some contain conf files.  one appears to be web assets
<ali1234> sounds very proprietary
<shauno> /opt and /data appear to contain exactly the same .jars, and I can't figure out if it's intentional
<penguin42> shauno: My experience is it's perfectly normal for an arbitrary set of java apps to look in 5 different places for their jars
<shauno> I'm really tempted to delete one and see what happens now
<penguin42> shauno: Nothing will happen until 30 mins before a critical demo/customer
<shauno> reminds me, I wrote a demo for Google recently.  that was hilarious.  can you bluff google in 3 hours?  yes, yes you can
<penguin42> ?
<diddledan> shauno: what were you demoing (high level if secrets are involved)?
<shauno> integration between x and y, when we didn't have y to hand
<diddledan> lol
<shauno> so I wrote something that spits out soap-shaped chunks of pre-canned replies, and just prayed he stuck to the script
<penguin42> bluff them into doing what?
<shauno> the presentation had a static slide.  they wanted to see the actual thing
<penguin42> haha ok
<shauno> it was just stupid timing because to do it properly would be a request to india and back
<shauno> it just tickled my ego that when they thought of quick botches, they thought of me
<penguin42> shauno: It's not a bad thing to be able to do
<shauno> it's handy, but I do wish I was capable of anything else
<shauno> that's why I look after the lab.  it'll never be pretty and it's allowed to explode
<diddledan> :-)
<diddledan> I botch together wordpress and/or drupal frankensteins
<diddledan> one of my botches is http://www.choosemypcc.org.uk which I'm sure not many people actually saw at the time
<penguin42> oh I remember that
<penguin42> diddledan: It's a pretty botch
<diddledan> it's hideously not seoified
<diddledan> thanks :-)
<penguin42> seofied?
<diddledan> search engine optimised
<penguin42> ah
<diddledan> there's no way for google to be able to work out that the region pages exist at all
<diddledan> it was done in somewhat of a rush because the design changed last minue
<diddledan> minute*
 * penguin42 doesn't know how to do web botching beyond simple stuff; now if you need a bit of C or asm botching
<diddledan> :-)
<diddledan> C or asm are complete mysteries to me
<shauno> I'm not good at pretty either.  I'm a posterchild for Bootstrap
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> bootstrap needn't look like it's been made in bootstrap if you're persistent enough
<shauno> oh I'm not persistent.  I painted it The Correct Colour, and left it there
<shauno> on the plus side, everything looks like one coherent whole.  because I've been dragging the same template around the last 18 months worth of projects
<diddledan> hehe
<diddledan> http://www.brolene.co.uk is another of mine - most of our clients insist on cave-man internet explorer compatibility while also wanting the latest and greatest responsive stuff thrown in for good measure
 * penguin42 knows where to come if he needs a website hacking together then
<diddledan> IE6 is the bane of my existence
<diddledan> thankfully IE5 no longer exists
<diddledan> bring on the 2014 cut-off for XP ASAP so that the government finally upgrade to something resembling modern
<diddledan> annoyingly, wordpress refuse to support even IE7 which means that we're stuck telling clients that they're backwards and want to do stuff that is impossible given their IT infrastructure
<shauno> I still use IE6 :/
<diddledan> shauno: you're backwards
<shauno> tell me about it
<shauno> I have it for one single application.  they're in the process of finally replacing it, but the replacement doesn't do everything the old one did
<diddledan> typical
<shauno> so we're using both, and 1001 shims between them
<diddledan> ewwwwwwwwwwww!
<daftykins> shauno: just a matter of time then \o/
<Azelphur> I'm sure I remember hearing about a WM that could do separate workspaces per-monitor, any ideas what that was?
<Azelphur> or, if anyone  knows a WM that can do that :)
<diddledan> Azelphur: xmonad?
<Azelphur> interesting, could well be
<Azelphur> oh sweet, it actually mentions it in the featureset
<Azelphur> yep, that'll be it
<penguin42> I could swear I've seen it in something but can't remember what
<penguin42> Azelphur: So I had this argument with someone the other day; why do you want it?
<Azelphur> penguin42: haha, quad monitor with one large workspace is a bit useless
<penguin42> Azelphur: Ah, quad....
<ali1234> KDE can do it
<ali1234> KDE can do everything
<Azelphur> can it make my dinner
<ali1234> figuring out how to configure it is left as an exercise for the reader
<Azelphur> hehe
<ali1234> it has an egg timer applet, so yes
<Azelphur> xD
<daftykins> XBMC ditches Windows XP support \o/
<shauno> they already ditched osx 10.4 :(
<daftykins> even Apple have though :)
<shauno> yeah, but that's what my TV was running on
<shauno> grump whine etc
<daftykins> d'aww
<daftykins> PPC?
<shauno> nah, 1st gen appletv
<daftykins> ah
<shauno> minus apple's front end because .. well because xbmc
<daftykins> =]
<daftykins> i've an ASRock ion HTPC
<shauno> strange choice I know, but at the time it was a very cost-effective, very SO-friendly machine
<daftykins> been a user since the xbox1 though
<shauno> but that's when they were intel.  the new ones are basically ipods.
<shauno> almost literally.  that's where the dump the CPUs that tested on one core but not both
<daftykins> binning is no biggy
<penguin42> really? Do they have that poor yield?
<penguin42> I mean I doubt it they're only small chips ?
<daftykins> kinda sounds like you're saying intels are in ipods and apple TVs ;)
<shauno> that's my understanding; they're ipod processors with one core disabled
<shauno> I don't know if that's yield, or just saves them coming up with a new die
<penguin42> yeh just turn one off to save power or something
<shauno> that's the bit I never got my head around.  I can't see power being a huge factor, since they're mains powered, and considerably roomier than the ipod
<shauno> it's the same underlying OS stack, so they could use the second core.  and I really can't imagine one canibalizing the other
<penguin42> nod
<ali1234> this is kind of odd, gedit doesn't have an icon any more
<ali1234> the .desktop does, so there's an icon in menus and launchers and so on, but the app icon that would appear in the top left corner or in task bars has been replaced with the default one
<penguin42> sounds like a screwup
#ubuntu-uk 2013-08-31
<ali1234> reporting it
<ali1234> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/148989210/gedit-no-icon.png
<penguin42> yeh here (on kubuntu) I'm getting the X default one
<penguin42> talking of gnome apps; I really don't like what they've done to evince and made the menu-on-the-button thing
<ali1234> menu on the button?
<penguin42> ali1234: If you start evince what do you see?
<ali1234> i don't think i have it installed
<ali1234> oh yeah i do. the cog? rhythmbox is like that now too
<ali1234> i don't really like it much, but it's miles better than global menus
<penguin42> hmm
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gedit/+bug/1219120 if you could confirm :)
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1219120 in gedit (Ubuntu) "gedit has no application icon" [Undecided,New]
<ali1234> i bet this bug isn't even visible in unity/gnome shell
<penguin42> done
<ali1234> thanks
<ali1234> i just installed kazam to record a screencast showing a bug, and found a bug in kazam
<penguin42> yeh that's the way it goes
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<MartijnVdS> \o
<brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS
<AlanBell> morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o
<AlanBell> happy saturday to you
<AlanBell> I just had chiken korma for breakfast and it is nice and sunny
<MartijnVdS> it's a bit foggy here
<MartijnVdS> still
<brobostigon> morning AlanBell
 * brobostigon contemplates a new blog post about various things.
<Myrtti> I have my lovely microwave poached eggs and tomato on toast and a whole teapot of Yorkshire just for me
<Myrtti> nevermind it's noon, I like eggs on toast.
<AlanBell> eggs are great :)
<AlanBell> http://hencam.libertus.co.uk/video loadsa chickens
<Myrtti> THERES A CHICKEN LAYING AN EGG
<Myrtti> DOOEEET
<Myrtti> she's twerking :-D
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<AlanBell> heh
<AlanBell> I need to go clean out the coop, but I will wait for that egg
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<AlanBell> EGGG!!!!
<bigcalm> AlanBell: have you just laid one?
<AlanBell> yeah http://hencam.libertus.co.uk/
<bigcalm> \\\\\\
<bigcalm> ||||||
<bigcalm> I have my \| key back!!!
<bigcalm> Was using a _very_ cheap USB->PS/2 converter which didn't know about the \| key (as well as not registering I was hitting any key at times)
<bigcalm> Spent proper money with proper p&p to get a better built converter and it works nicely :D
<bigcalm> TE UIC RWN  JUS VER TE LAY DG
<bigcalm> No change on the double shift test though
<popey> morning
 * popey returns from the post office having shipped out all his ebay items
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<bigcalm> Morning
 * popey hugs neuro 
<MartijnVdS> Prison Architect is fun :)
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: can you recommend a version [enn thinking of geting this for a while].. will the bog standard Â£11.99 Steam version be ok? [only occasional use]
<SuperEngineer> enn? what's an enn? sub I've been ;)
<dutchie> SuperEngineer: why it not be ok?
<SuperEngineer> dutchie: dunno - that's why i was asking ;)
<dutchie> it should be fine
<dutchie> unless you want the soundtrack or your name in the game
<SuperEngineer> [there'sseveral versions on Steam.. from bog standard to super duper - they seem to be, well, unnecessary
<dutchie> nice to have the soundtrack sometimes
<dutchie> and it's more money to the indie dev
<SuperEngineer> nope - don't need name [don't want name in game] &... is the soundtrack any good then?
<SuperEngineer> [would prefer a "preview soundrack" option ;)
<dutchie>  i dunno about soundtrack
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: yeah, the standard standard cheap version is fine
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: it's still alpha, so sometimes it bugs a bit
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: cool - I'll put up with that - purchasing now...
<popey> Afternoon all
<brobostigon> afternoonings popey
<penguin42> popey: Are you on chromium 28 ?
<popey> penguin42: Version 28.0.1500.71 Ubuntu 13.10 (28.0.1500.71-0ubuntu3)
<penguin42> popey: Same here - so what are you finding isn't working on ebay; just trying it here and it looks fine
<bigcalm> Good afternoon peeps :)
<popey> try and create an auction, it complains when you try and list that it should have paypal as a valid payment option
<popey> there's some js on the page which breaks
<penguin42> oh, not tried to create one
 * popey tries to resist buying a pc-engine off ebay
<popey> and a dreamcast
<Azelphur> I have a dream(cast) :P
 * bigcalm is lost in a maze of c++ corridors, all alike
<Azelphur> it died though :(
<penguin42> bigcalm: nail a baseclass to the floor and follow the string
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> I know nothing about C++ yet I'm trying to write some as a plug-in for QML. Really out of my comfort zone
<penguin42> well, I know no QML but want to learn, but I know C++ - so feel free to ask
<DJones> Martin Luthor King had a dream (is that anywhere near close?)
<bigcalm> penguin42: very kind]
<popey> for czajkowski & AlanBell https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMydVdwmuws
<bigcalm> wow
<bigcalm> The comments are special
<popey> ya
<MartijnVdS> welkcome to youtube
<bigcalm> Welp, I'm not getting errors, but I'm also not getting a compiled object
<SuperEngineer> weeeeeeeee Dr. Who!!
<penguin42> bigcalm: ?
<bigcalm> Where?
<bigcalm> penguin42: ?
<bigcalm> Oh
<bigcalm> qmake
<penguin42> hmm don't know qmake
<penguin42> it's got to be similar to gmake right - just the tail on the bottom ?
<bigcalm> I _think_ that things might be moving over to gcc. Would be nice
<SuperEngineer> bigcalm: if that was re DW... BBC3
<SuperEngineer> [if not - please ignore
<bigcalm> SuperEngineer: it was and oh
<SuperEngineer> :)
<bigcalm> Silly me
<bigcalm> Not reading enough
<bigcalm> Have to run qmake and then make
<bigcalm> Getting errors now :)
<bigcalm> I'm trying to build this as a plugin http://askubuntu.com/questions/308968/how-can-i-run-a-command-from-a-qml-script
<bigcalm> By following bits of this http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-4.8/gettingstartedqml.html#extending-qml-using-qt-c
<bigcalm> Really confused :)
<DJones> Has anybody looked at this 10TB of free cloud storage? http://thenextweb.com/asia/2013/08/30/forget-1tb-chinas-tencent-is-giving-away-10tb-worth-of-free-cloud-storage/
<directhex> let's give all our data to the chinese!
<penguin42> DJones: So that's where the NSA store it....
<DJones> NSA/China/Google Probably not much difference anyway
 * penguin42 wonders what drivers Ouya use to drive their off chip graphics card
<directhex> off chip?
<penguin42> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouya says it has a GeForce
<ali1234> isn't it tegra?
<directhex> it's just tegra3
<penguin42> ah ok
<directhex> although nvidia does ship arm geforce drivers
<popey> its very easy to run out of space on ouya
<penguin42> directhex: Interesting
<penguin42> popey: Oh I was just thinking the ebay prices weren't bad for a quad core A9
<directhex> of course, only 2 motherboards exist right now with an ARM chip and a PCIe slot
<directhex> but you can get the driver for those, damnit!
<penguin42> directhex: Which 2 are you thinking of?
<directhex> http://shop.seco.com/gpudevkit/gpudevkit-detail.html
<penguin42> directhex: I think there's at least; the ARM dev boards (cost a fortune), the boards from Kontron (do they really exist? has anyone seen one?) and the globalscale mirabox
<penguin42> hmm hadn't seen that one
<directhex> er, where's the pcie slot on a mirabox?
<penguin42> directhex: http://www.globalscaletechnologies.com/p-58-mirabox-development-kit.aspx  is kind of nice but only has mini-pcie
 * bigcalm flops in on his laptop
<MartijnVdS> howdy
<bigcalm> Hullo
<penguin42> popey: How many kickstarter projects have you funded now?
<bigcalm> penguin42: all of them
<penguin42> bigcalm: That's the conclusion I was coming to
<penguin42> bigcalm: Do you think we should start a 'Get Popey to give us some money' project
<bigcalm> Heh, do we count as throw away toys?
<penguin42> bigcalm: Maybe he won't even notice by the time he's said yes
 * MartijnVdS is still waiting for a shipping notification of Story War :(
<mungbean_> penguin42 only 20.. http://www.kickstarter.com/profile/popey
<penguin42> ah I didn't realise you could spy on people like that
<popey> bit of a theme there
<popey> only one that failed (got cancelled)
<popey> i love those socks
<penguin42> haha
<popey> ooh http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/124039987/the-ridge-wallet-20 has doubled in very short period
<mungbean_> when everybody was using that alternative android site before play got good, i spied on everybody to see what apps they had installed
<mungbean_> can't remember the name of the site now
<mungbean_> UK shipping fees make kickstarters suck for my budget
<mungbean_> appbrain
<mungbean_> sorry popey...http://es.appbrain.com/user/popey/apps-on-the-phone?o=40
<mungbean_> man, zinio sucks for decent magazines
<shauno> it also sucks for customer service :/
<shauno> they're on my "not with a bargepole" list
<popey> mungbean_: eh?
<popey> that site is completely wrong
<popey> so old
 * penguin42 grumbles as I get outbid
<daftykins> D:
#ubuntu-uk 2013-09-01
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<brobostigon> afternoonings bigcalm
<bigcalm> What's happening, brobostigon?
<dutchie> o/
<brobostigon> not alot, might have bacon sandwiches for lunch, and might have a sunday pub visit. and you bigcalm ?
<dutchie> yay new keyboard has shipped
<dutchie> after old one had a minor beer accident :(
<brobostigon> oh dear.
<MartijnVdS> dutchie: http://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/washable-keyboard-k310
<dutchie> heh
<bigcalm> Hi dutchie. Where have you been hiding?
<bigcalm> brobostigon: ordered and received a decent USB->PS/2 converter so that I can use _all_ of the keys on my Unicomp keyboard once more. Very cheap converters from China are to be avoided from now on :)
<bigcalm> I missed my \| key
<brobostigon> bigcalm: i see, didnt know that, wow.
<dutchie> bigcalm: needed to not fail my finals
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: the one between enter and backspace, or the one between shift and z?
<dutchie> and then been on holiday
 * popey considers lunch
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: UK layout, the one between left shift and z
 * brobostigon tries to remeber popey's bacon cooking method, to cause less washing up.
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: there is no key between enter and backspace :)
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: you're WRONG :P
<dutchie> brobostigon: grill it?
<bigcalm> dutchie: well done on such self control :)
<bigcalm> dutchie: microwave it
<dutchie> that works too
<dutchie> although you can't get it crispy in a microwave
<bigcalm> I've been having/doing microwaved bacon sandwiches for as long as I can remember. So it's a treat to have fried or grilled
<brobostigon> crispy bacon i do dislike. it has to be done, but definatly not hard crisp.
<popey> microwave
<popey> plate, kitchen roll, bacon slices, kitchen roll, pop in microwave for 2 mins. done. 2.5-3 mins for crispy
<brobostigon> thank you popey
<popey> Found some fun multiplayer games on Ouya this morning
<brobostigon> cool.
<popey> shot the crap out of some aliens with the kids
<dutchie> hmm
<dutchie> maybe i have never managed to get it crispy because i only had a 600W microwave
<popey> ours is 900
<bigcalm> dutchie: just do it for longer
<dutchie> yeah
<bigcalm> Our butcher cut our bacon a little thick for my liking yesterday, so cooking it this morning took longer than expected
<szymon_g> hi
<dutchie> sigh
<dutchie> now i have forgotten how to turn oven on in new house
<dutchie> :(
<bigcalm> o.O
<bigcalm> dutchie: have you moved back to Worcester?
<dutchie> aha
<dutchie> bigcalm: no, new house in oxford
<dutchie> was in worcester for a week or two
<penguin42> ovens generally aren't *that* complex....
<MartijnVdS> Cool: http://dev.citysdk.waag.org/buildings
<szymon_g> what is the suggested way of installing closed-source nvidia drivers on optimus laptop? won't the default installer screw the xorg.conf? do i still need to have bumblebee installed?
<MartijnVdS> The age of *every* building in the Netherlands
<dutchie> the isolation switch was off and cunningly hidden behind the kettle
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Oh that's impressive
<mungbean_> hmm whycan't i make myself trust the bacon in microwave method?
 * mungbean_ chomps on his fried bacon sandwich
<brobostigon> brown sauce on bacon sandwiches rocks.
<bigcalm> I used HP's Honey BBQ sauce this morning
<bigcalm> Mostly to use it up though
<brobostigon> i like the guinness one.
<bigcalm> I have a bottle of that, though I'm not sure if I've used it yet. The taste is quite a strong one
 * popey constructs cottage pie
<mungbean_> we got served supermalt at church this morning. my son tried some, made a funny face, then guzzled the rest
<mungbean_> certainly an acquired taste
<mungbean_> BT have turned off dialup internet :-|
<bigcalm> mungbean_: were you using it?
<mungbean_> nope
<mungbean> !ping
<lubotu3> pong!
<SuperEngineer> bomg!
<mungbean> firefox seems to be going the gnome route..
<mungbean> https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/967108?page=2
<mungbean> cannot right click? waaaat?
<MartijnVdS> yay chrome
<SuperEngineer> Installing Xubuntu on old netbook last night I broke a toe!!  No health warning anywhere on live CD... disgusted
<penguin42> were you using a supported toe?
<SuperEngineer> apparently not ;)
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Ok, so hth did you manage to break a toe - was this trying to do a fn-alt-ctrl-shift-f3 ?
<penguin42> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-23919206
<SuperEngineer> nah!  nipped to loo & suddenly remembered I hadn't plugged in the power pack - rushed to netbook & smashed toe into side of door - dumb!
<SuperEngineer> ...followed by such words as "oh dear", "oh drat", "oh damn"... sub your your own real real life words in that - this is a family channel ;)
<SuperEngineer> [clue - 3 words - all beginning with "f"]
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: "fun", "fancy that", "fiddlesticks"?
<penguin42> ouch
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: that is exactly right.... ish
<SuperEngineer> neighbours must have thought there were three ducks flying overhead & I was counting them ;)
<joshmyer_> hey guys, had an ultrbook with 12.10 insalled with full luks disk encryption. I want to format this disk and reinstall 12.04...When using booting off 12.04 usb I get the grub menu to install, but when I select to install from grub menu, I get just a blank screen...
<joshmyer_> same for any distro, ubuntu/gparted etc..
<joshmyer_> any ideas?
<penguin42> joshmyer_: You previously had 12.04 on it?
<joshmyer_> 12.10
<penguin42> ok, which 12.04 media are you using? There are 12.04, 12.04.1, 12.04.2 and 12.04.3 now the newer ones have much newer X and kernel stacks
<joshmyer_> 12.04.3
<joshmyer_> but also gparted same thing happens...I get to the gparted grub menu, when choose an option, blank screen...
<joshmyer_> gparted it _old_
<penguin42> ok, so it sounds like 12.10 fixed something for your hardware that hasn't made it back into 12.04
<penguin42> does reinstalling 12.10 work?
<joshmyer_> no
<joshmyer_> I dont think it's to do with the OS at all
<joshmyer_> I get the same problem when trying to boot usb bootable gparted
<joshmyer_> something to do with luks encryption?
<penguin42> hmm ok that's odd
<penguin42> normally luks is just something on one partition - doesn't normally get in the way
<joshmyer_> ok
<penguin42> the 12.04 installations you are doing - are you doing luks on those or trying a simple reinstallation?
<joshmyer_> maybe not luks, but also don't think is OS specific...
<penguin42> nod
<penguin42> joshmyer_: on the grub menu there's normally a recover/fallback/safe mode entry - does that do any more?
<joshmyer_> correct but no safe mode still the same
<joshmyer_> safe mode doesnt load any gfx drivers etc
<joshmyer_> so I dont think its a gfx driver / X issue..
<penguin42> what ultrabook is this?
<joshmyer_> http://www.novatech.co.uk/promo/ultrabooks-outofstock.html
<joshmyer_> been running fine for 6 months
<penguin42> ok, so not one of the common ones - hmm
<penguin42> joshmyer_: Have you tried plugging in an external monitor?
<joshmyer_> yup
<joshmyer_> same problem
<penguin42> ok, and I just want to check, this is that even getting to the installer is failing?
<joshmyer_> ja
<joshmyer_> I get to the gparted grub menu for example
<joshmyer_> can see the grub background etc
<joshmyer_> but when I select any options, even failsafe
<joshmyer_> I get nada...
<penguin42> hmm
<penguin42> what other USB devices have you got plugged in?
<penguin42> joshmyer_: Also, how are you writing the USB installation image - I'm thinking that might be the common factor here?
<joshmyer_> unetbootin
<joshmyer_> also tried yumi, from pendrivelinux
<penguin42> and you've tried different USB sticks in different slots on the ultrabook?
<joshmyer_> it's like it just stops reading the usb after selecting the grub menu
<joshmyer_> yes
<joshmyer_> going to try using unetbootin with the ubuntu.12-04.dvd now
<penguin42> joshmyer_: You should be able to avoid unetbooting etc alltogether with the current ubuntu images; they should boot striaght off the usb if you dd it on
<penguin42> what are you writing the images on?
<joshmyer_> usb
<penguin42> yes I guessed that, but I meant what machine/os?
<joshmyer_> ah sorry
<joshmyer_> osx
<joshmyer_> could dd the images over
<joshmyer_> can't see it changing anything though
<penguin42> only thing I can think is that the unetbootin etc is writing bad images - do the thumb drives you write boot on anything else other than the ultrabook?
<joshmyer_> yes they boot ok on other machines
<joshmyer_> :/
<penguin42> joshmyer_: Well, if I was writing it on a Linux machine I'd write it using   dd if=theubuntu.iso of=/dev/sd??? bs=1024k   where the /dev/sd??? is the raw device of the USB disk, now I can't remember where that is on a mac, and you have to be very careful to get the write device
<penguin42> hmmmmm - I wonder......
<penguin42> joshmyer_: this ultrabook is booting efi mode?  Can it be switched to oldstyle bios mode?
<joshmyer_> it is old style bios mode
<joshmyer_> never had anything like this before..
<penguin42> hmm odd
<penguin42> joshmyer_: So you can boot grub but then can't boot any kernel?
<joshmyer_> yup
<joshmyer_> as soon as I select anything from the grub menu, I get a blank screen
<penguin42> joshmyer_: and you're sure it's in old bios mode?
<joshmyer_> same usb boots fine on other machines
<joshmyer_> yes
<joshmyer_> one thing I do notice though, on my other machine, the grub menu that boots up looks different, with like unetbootin title etc
<joshmyer_> on my linux machine, I load it up and it's loading from the usb....but it looks like normally bog standard grub..
<penguin42> hmm
<penguin42> are you sure it's booting off the USB stick and not just trying to boot the broken thing off the disk?
<joshmyer_> yes
<penguin42> how?
<joshmyer_> if i take the usb stick out, I get nada.
<penguin42> if you boot into the grub do you see the right boot entries on the menu?
<joshmyer_> yes looks like it
<penguin42> ok, so which ones do you see with the ubuntu 12.04 or 12.10 image?
<joshmyer_> just 'Ubuntu'
<joshmyer_> :/
<penguin42> that doesn't seem right, you should see in the menu advanced options and things as well and a memory test
<joshmyer_> I can get to advanced options when the usb is not in, so advanced of the insatalled OS
<penguin42> hmm, no I'm not sure what's going on here, it still sounds to me like the USB image you've got on the thumb drive isn't happy
<penguin42> joshmyer_: is the installed OS still happy?
<joshmyer_> ah ffs
<joshmyer_> I think it's using UEFI bios...
<joshmyer_> grubs saying invalid EFI file path..
<penguin42> (15:02:34) penguin42: joshmyer_: and you're sure it's in old bios mode?  :-)
<joshmyer_> lol well it looks like normal BIOS/grub...
<joshmyer_> :P
<joshmyer_> still doesnt get me much closer to figuring it out though
<penguin42> can you flip it into normal BIOS mode?
<joshmyer_> how would I do that?
<joshmyer_> :)
<penguin42> some option in the bios somewhere?
<joshmyer_> cant see anything in there
<penguin42> joshmyer_: OK, so if it's EFI I'd give a different diagnosis
<penguin42> joshmyer_: Can you try a 13.04 or 13.10 daily to see if it gets further?
<penguin42> joshmyer_: There is a load of weird stuff with buggy EFI bioses, and they keep adding more and more workarounds/fixes for them
<penguin42> joshmyer_: You could try editing in the option    noefi   on the kernel boot line
<penguin42> not sure if it would help
<diddledan> one such buggy bios/efi implementation is the gigabyte "hybrid efi" which I have on one of my pcs which cannot boot non-windows in efi mode
<diddledan> I've mentioned it before in here, and we concluded that gigabyte just screwed up royally
<diddledan> :-p
<penguin42> diddledan: Well there are whole rafts of different EFI screwups people have been sorting out; the gigabyte one doesn't sound as bad as the Samsung bricker
<joshmyer_> hmm
<joshmyer_> but have had linux on here for months! :P
<penguin42> joshmyer_: Right but the interactions with EFI are 'weird' - one of the things is it has some storage space in itfor arbitrary variables that the OS can store, now it can get full, and this especially happens during installs, and different implementations have very different ways of dealing with it
<penguin42> joshmyer_: I could also suggest updating the BIOS, but of course that can be danegrous, and you're going to need to figure out what machine you've actually really got - that one looks like one where a local retailer has stuck their own label on
<shauno> is there an actual name for the connector used by 'normal' TV antenna?
<penguin42> Belling Lee
<popey> hmm. i have a process (predict) which works on my laptop but not on my server.. it gets wedged and I can't see why
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6051688/
<popey> I ended up having to CTRL+C it
<penguin42> popey: Try attaching to it with gdb and getting a bt?
<popey> hmm
<penguin42> popey: gdb --pid
<popey> will have a play
<penguin42> hell ues, 3.9MB/sec downloads
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: slooow :)
<penguin42> :-(
<MartijnVdS> :P
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Actually the thing I'm a bit annoyed by is the upload speed; it's 2Mbps, I thought I might get 3Mbps but the ISPs description is very unclear
 * penguin42 could pay for 120Mbps down, but that costs a lot more
<ali1234> can i highlight myself? ali1234
<ali1234> no, apparently not
<Darael> ali1234: Depends on the client, as I recall.
<Darael> Th'art using Pidgin, looks like.  I think there's a setting that changes it?  I could be wrong.
<ali1234> Darael: do that again please :)
<Darael> ali1234: Certainly.
<ali1234> hmm, message indicator isn't working
<ali1234> thanks
<Darael> No worries.
<ali1234> i don't think pidgin has a setting for this. i'll get another client up and test with that
<Darael> Well, TBQH I've done my IRC exclusively with irssi for quite some time, and my other group-chat is done in Psi+, so I could well be misremembering.
<ali1234> i'm trying to get indicators working in xfce
<ali1234> i think i'm going to need to do a baseline install with 13.10 unity just to see if they work there or not
<ali1234> because all the others work fine
<Darael> I assume that's installing Pidgin in a liveCD environment?  Because it'd be rather more effort than necessary to do a full install just for that :-Ã¾
<ali1234> it will either be a VM or a spare machine
<Darael> ...gah!
 * Darael curses at Banshee.  And Rhythmbox.  But not the Bean Sidhe.
#ubuntu-uk 2014-08-25
<diddledan> well bug me! bug #1360997 is occuring quite frequently for me (utopic).
<lubotu3> bug 1360997 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "GPU lockup IPEHR: 0x0a200001 IPEHR: 0x01000000" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1360997
<Knightwise> Morning
<foobarry> popey: i certainly did. highlight of my year
<mapps> :D
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<mapps> morning
<brobostigon> morning MattJ
<brobostigon> morning mapps
<brobostigon> sorry MattJ
<MattJ> sorry for accidentally wishing me a good morning? So you should be.
<brobostigon> tab failiure on my part, anyways morning :)
<MattJ> Morning :)
<mapps> hey
 * mapps has a gambling problem
<brobostigon> the issue maybe more to do with, who you work for.
<SuperMatt> word up peeps
<zmoylan-pi> down with that sort of thing!
<mapps> hey SuperMatt
<SuperMatt> gotta love a rainy bank holiday
<mapps> :)
<zmoylan-pi> it's a freeday at your computer with no guilt as if you do anything else you'll be pissed on
<mapps> you liive near the heygat SuperMatt ?
<SuperMatt> nope, I'm in Camberwell
<mapps> i thougt you said you were e&c:)
<SuperMatt> well, they're close enough to each other
<mapps> yea
<SuperMatt> http://thecheesebomb.com/#/products/4562258547/the-chilli-bomb/1555384  I've been scoffing this cheese, and I'm aware there might be people in here who would enjoy it
<foobarry> mapps: are you getting help for your problem?
 * foobarry is sorting his pics from the airshow
<foobarry> still totally pumped up
<mapps> nah
<mapps> what can you do its life eh
<foobarry> not true
<foobarry> professionals can help
<mapps> i work fulltime foobarry
<mapps> i just have a horrific drink problem
<mapps> so i dont want people to know:D
<foobarry> they don't have to
<foobarry> you work nights innit
<mapps> yep
<foobarry> your work won't know
<foobarry> they are more likely to know through irc logs
<mapps> im movin to gib in4 weeks
<mapps> and i hope that willl help
<mapps> no casinos ec
<foobarry> i suspect not, if the problem is still there
<mapps> :)
<mapps> who cares eh
<foobarry> http://i.imgur.com/TmDnMBt.jpg
<foobarry> hot jets
<popey> http://www.osnews.com/comments/27907
<popey> brobostigon: ^
<popey> (morning)
<brobostigon> ty popey , :)
<foobarry> what's a good flickr uploader? postr seems broken on my machine now
<popey> i used shotwell last time I did this iirc
<Myrtti> shotwell â¥
<foobarry> i'll try. i haz old version of shotwell on 12.04
<zmoylan-pi> ooooh, i wonder if shotwell will upload to goodle drive... have a few pics from kittykam to upload
<zmoylan-pi> nope just picasa.. :-(
<foobarry> wish they would open source picasa
<xoveruk> hi
<xoveruk> is anyone using BT Internet?
<BigRedS> Not this minute but I have it at home
<xoveruk> BigRedS: Do you have any idea how to remove the BTFON network?
<xoveruk> BigRedS: It appears that it was activated without my authorization and ever since I have been unable to get it removed by calling their support centre. There are of course no options on the router to disable it.
<Myrtti> I can see why you might want to remove it... but... https://www.btfon.com/ â¥
<xoveruk> Myrtti: What am I looking at?
<Myrtti> xoveruk: I actually have bought several standalone Fons just to get the world wide wifi for free
<Myrtti> I've got two new ones coming in Wednesday
<Myrtti> https://www.bt.com/wifi/secure/status.do?s_cid=con_FURL_btfon/status
<xoveruk> That status thing does not work for me because I never opted in.
<xoveruk> I have informed them to disable it on my router and now they claim it takes 20 days to deactive.
<popey> I â¥ fon
<penguin42> Myrtti: You say standalone fon's - can you do that in the UK for non-BT users?
<Myrtti> yup
<Myrtti> technically atleast
<penguin42> how much does it cost?
<Myrtti> https://shop.fon.com/en/products/all
<Myrtti> or https://www.gramofon.com/
<penguin42> it asks me the country, it doesn't allow uk, england or Geramny, but if I tell it I'm in France it gives me a nice English page telling me it's 39E
<penguin42> ^Geramny^Germany
<zmoylan-pi> maybe it's under blighty? :-)
<penguin42> hehe
<penguin42> and then if I ask it to find a Fon spot it centers it on Madrid; go figure
 * zmoylan-pi has fun in ireland finding ireland in drop down lists.  ireland, republic of ireland, eire, hibernia and one northern ireland site irish free state :-p
<penguin42> https://corp.fon.com/en/maps  is fun - you can see all the individual users I think and see basically population density
<penguin42> curious distribution; mainly europe, japan, with a few other scattered bits
<Myrtti> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/fon/gramofon-modern-cloud-jukebox I participated early
<zmoylan-pi> frequency based?
<shauno> zmoylan-pi: it's not much more fun trying to pick out uk/gb/britain/england/etc
<zmoylan-pi> and i'm also a fan of alphabetical lists with 1-2 locations not in alphabetical order at the top.  makes my ocd so happy that does :-)
<shauno> http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/massive-sinkhole-appears-county-durham-england-1462367  is it just me, or is the photo they're using for that .. China?
<zmoylan-pi> just how deep is it?!?!
<popey> do people actually call it County Durham
<popey> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2732531/Terrifying-sinkhole-100ft-wide-appears-overnight-Pennines-s-deep-t-bottom.html is the actual picture
<shauno> why wouldn't they?  that's it's name
<popey> not ime
<popey> in .ie they tend to say "County N" in England we mostly say "N County"
<shauno> right, but this one is actually named county durham
<zmoylan-pi> well in ireland a few of the counties also have towns cities named the same thing so it prefixes which we mean.  hiberno english thing
<popey> just sounded wierd
<popey> Myrtti: does that gramophon have an API?
<popey> (I mean, for devices, so you're not tied to whatever app they make)
<shauno> wiki does mention it's the only county in england named the wrong way around.  so I can see why it'd sound weird.  if it was dahn saff it'd be durhamshire instead :)
<Myrtti> popey: no idea.
<zmoylan-pi> i saw an article over weekend talking about how we would say big red barn and not red big barn as the seond one sounds 'wrong'
<popey> heh, yeah, it does.
<zmoylan-pi> we chose the wrong way because it sounds 'better'
<zmoylan-pi> and when people discuss how awkward the english language can be i always link to this list :-) http://www.livhambrett.com/2013/10/30/the-bandage-was-wound-around-the-wound/
<shauno> I gotta say, sticking "galway, county galway" on addresses always feels wrong too.  it feels like I might as well just answer "yes" to county
<zmoylan-pi> galway is a big county
<foobarry> arggh.
<foobarry> why has the chromecast button disappeared from the plex app
<Myrtti> because chromecast.
<foobarry> and because plex
<Myrtti> mainly because chromecast.
<foobarry> this is the plex.tv app launched from chrome on laptop
<foobarry> wokring now
<foobarry> restart everything :S
<foobarry_> and freenode :P
<shauno> foobarry_: we're blaming that one on you :)
<foobarry_> thats ok
 * foobarry_ 
<shauno> I wish I'd read the instructions before buying this.  I didn't realise it involved soldering new headers to the motherboard :/
<penguin42> shauno: For what?
<shauno> trying to add a usb mouse port to my amiga
<foobarry> i threw away a amiga mouse not long ago
<shauno> oh I have mice for it.  but they all have balls.  nostalgia does not stretch as far as de-gunking mouse balls
 * penguin42 would have thought it would be a USB converter thing to plugin to do that
<shauno> there's an inline one that looks like a dongle, but it's very, very picky about which mice it works with
 * penguin42 wonders why
<foobarry> alcohol and cotton buds
<shauno> it's supposed to just be any mouse that is ps/2 capable (but usb-plugged).  in reality it seems to work best with beige-era msft intellimouse
<shauno> back from the days when you'd pretty much expect a usb mouse to come with a little green ps/2 adaptor
<zmoylan-pi> which never worked
<shauno> hm.  make that a soldering iron and a small saw.  I'm starting to get nervous :/
<darrenr> hey
<diddledan> *yawn*
<penguin42> exactly
<foobarry> wettest day ever
<zmoylan-pi> nah, we had one day last year where we got a months rain in one day, broke all the records in ireland which as you can imagine was pretty nasty :-)
<foobarry> yeah, not in volume but in incessant dreary rain from morning till niht
<foobarry> no let off all day
<penguin42> I don't think it's rained here yet, which means I should have gone out
<DJones> I had to laugh at the BBC website a couple of days ago, one one page they had torrential rain predictions for the public holiday, on a 2nd page they had goverment/health & safety calls to pre-cook BBQ food to avoid food poisoning
<BigRedS> 
<ali1234> i was playing xcom earlier and got a mission in manchester. and in the map it was raining.
<ali1234> never seen rain in any other mission
<ali1234> wondering if it was intentional
<MartijnVdS> probably
#ubuntu-uk 2014-08-26
<diddledan> better
<diddledan> is it morning yet?
<zmoylan-pi> nope
<diddledan> grr
<zmoylan-pi> perfect time to work on your doomsday device :-)
<diddledan> does ubuntu-touch count?
<zmoylan-pi> no, that's just a weapon of mass distraction
<zmoylan-pi> but if you get os/2 working on a phone...
<zmoylan-pi> at the very least it would annoy the buggery out of ms as it becomes more popular than winphone :-p
<diddledan> well wouldn't my one install achieve the "more popular than winphone" milestone?
<diddledan> I just had a rant on the ubuntu-phone mailing list :-p
<diddledan> https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone/msg09629.html
<zmoylan-pi> nah, it needs a few million and you should never underestimate the os/2 holdouts
<zmoylan-pi> i have fond memories of it and if someone got one working i'd be seriously tempted
<zmoylan-pi> till thenm, waiting for firefoxos to make it to ireland
<zmoylan-pi> and it would set the nsa back decades trying to write malware for it :-)
<foobarry> ................................\o/
<foobarry> ................................ |
<foobarry> ................................/ \
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<foobarry> my missis got to play occulus while i wasn't there
<foobarry> :(
<brobostigon> as in, VR oculus rift ?
<foobarry> yep
<brobostigon> :(
<awilkins> Ooh, shiny
<foobarry> brother in law makes games for EA
<awilkins> Did she get to play Elite Dangerous on Rift?
<awilkins> Or just EA games?
<foobarry> i think she was running around in a cartoon
<foobarry> they have it at their house
<awilkins> The only thing stopping me getting a DK2 is the inevitable prospect of buyers remorse when the CV1 is released
<awilkins> I built one of those DIY headtrackers from an Arduino and it adds some very pleasing immersion to the game
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<SuperMatt> mornign bigcalm
<SuperMatt> are you feeling calm today?
<popey> yo
<bigcalm> Having had Monday off, quite calm. Except we went to IKEA yesterday for 4+ hours
<bigcalm> We are quite mad
<smittix> Morning all :D
<directhex> is it?
<bigcalm> For a little longer
<bigcalm> I think we need a bank holiweek
<popey> â¹ desktop swap-death
<awilkins> Swap file dead?
<awilkins> Swapped a desktop and it's dead?
<popey> no, 8GB RAM, 2.8GB swap consumed
<popey> now it's completely unresponsive
<popey> disk light on#
 * popey REISUBS
<awilkins> Is REISUB more reliable on PS/2 or USB?
<directhex> swap is so useless on modern systems
<directhex> if you don't plan on using suspend-to-disk (hibernate) it's more harmful than helpful
<awilkins> I tend to agree, although I do occasionally run processes that benefit from it (even with 8GB of RAM)
<awilkins> Things like repacking certain Git repos with large files in them
<foobarry> Myrtti: wife's first output from the spinning wheel was 2 large cushions for the kids to watch TV. they are natural colours, undyed. http://i.imgur.com/fUWDG72.jpg
<Myrtti> nice
<foobarry> very warm
 * smittix yawns
<foobarry> monsoon has started
<foobarry> http://www.buzzfeed.com/greggdd69/15-orangutans-that-look-like-london-mayor-boris-jo-5v0w
<SuperMatt> foobarry: how dare you suggest that humans are somehow related to apes!
<foobarry> actually i realised that link was a bit racist
<SuperMatt> I hadn't noticed that
<SuperMatt> I was just trying to stir a little something :P
<awilkins> Grrrrarrgh Windows Powershell - an entirely true statement
<awilkins> (Windows Powers hell)
<directhex> at least powershell has an "ls" command
<awilkins> A shell where you have to mess around for over an hour to get it to pass arguments to another program... not worthy of being called a "shell".
<awilkins> Still not worked out the convolutions it wants
<awilkins> The "ls" command is an alias for `get-childitem`
<awilkins> They removed the alias for "grep" being "select-string"
<SuperMatt> surely it's a shell so you can add it back
<awilkins> Yes
<awilkins> But it's making me very cross
<awilkins> Why is it so hard to pass arguments to another program from it
<awilkins> So hard, that someone has created a debug tool that echoes the arguments to STDOUT
<awilkins> So you can debug it
<SuperMatt> lawl
<awilkins> Currently I can get the first three args then it smushes the rest all together into one arg, for some unknown reason only it is privy to
<SuperMatt> awilkins: have you tried turning it off and on again?
<awilkins> Ok, it's something to do with using variables in argument lists
<awilkins> If you replace one with a literal that isn't smushed into the list any more
<awilkins> >-<
<awilkins> If you insert a literal into the middle of the list of variables... it writes the variables as a single smushed arg ... then it writes the literal at the end
<awilkins> Apparently it was my tragic conviction that   doStuff(1, 2, 3) was a reasonable way to call a function
<awilkins> Powershell assumes you mean an array if you use commas so doStuff(1,2, 3) == doStuff new Array { 1, 2, 3 }
<awilkins> And doesn't throw an error if you pass an array to a parameter set as [String], just casts the array to a string and ignores that the other two params are empty
<awilkins> doStuff 1 2 3 #  is of course the correct way and I am chastened
<diddledan> awilkins, bash does functions that way too
<awilkins> Guess I don't do functions in shell scripts enough
<awilkins> I mostly pipe and look an
<awilkins> loop
<awilkins> And set variables
<Myrtti> ugh what a failure
<Myrtti> why does any small electronics device manufacturer ever bother with power sources with the round plug?
<awilkins> Because you need something to power your USB hub with that isn't a USB hub?
<awilkins> (Ok, you could power it with a USB charger)
<Myrtti> Sorry, I'm just disappointed at the Gramofon, which comes with a EU powersource and a weird ass looking adapter.
<zmoylan-pi> because someone is still making those power adapters and selling them cheap?
<Myrtti> *sigh*
<directhex> because not everything runs off 3.3V
<ali1234> so gramofon is a chromecast with line out instead of HDMI...
<ali1234> (in case anyone was wondering)
<ali1234> and it costs $60 if you pre-order it, or $100 if you want until it is actually finished
<ali1234> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ex-Pro%C2%AE-AV-Pro-Audio-Extractor-3-5mm/dp/B00ATRH2WS/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1409068681&sr=8-4&keywords=hdmi+audio+splitter
<ali1234> combine with a chromecast and you get the same thing, for less, and it runs off USB power
<ali1234> and you can actually buy it today
<Myrtti> I bought it mainly as a Fonera
<Myrtti> we already have a Belkin Bluetooth thing
<ali1234> bluetooth audio thing?
<ali1234> songstream?
<Myrtti> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00DSNWM2K/
<zmoylan-pi> 1st world problems: you see a nice blue tooth headphones but then realise the radio on your phone needs the wire as an aerial :-)
#ubuntu-uk 2014-08-27
<shloimy9> how can i force mount my samsung galaxy tab 4 on ubuntu 13.04?
<shloimy9> it is soft bricked
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<smittix> Moaning all
<SuperMat1> ooh, a lot of us are here twice
<SuperMat1> how strange
 * foobarry isn't
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<knightwise> morning everyone
<SuperMat1> *grumble*
<SuperMat1> using kill -USR1 isn't showing me the status of my dd
<SuperMat1> has anything changed in recent versions
<bigcalm> Anybody experienced openconnect creating routes just fine on most machines, but not creating any on others?
<bigcalm> I've just had to use my laptop to do a deployment because my dev server isn't creating the routes
<switchtehbeat> anyone done the ice bucket challenge yet?
<directhex> which one?
<directhex> apparently macmillan cancer support have been duping people into donating to them, not to MNDA
<switchtehbeat> there's loads on my facebook feed, people doing the ice bucket challenge then donating Â£3 lol
<foobarry> is that what you do?
<switchtehbeat> yep
<switchtehbeat> macmillan it is directhex
<switchtehbeat> too many doing it
<switchtehbeat> even disabled people and kids :/
<foobarry> some americans were saying i nominate you and if you don't do it then you pay $100
<switchtehbeat> lmao foobarry
<foobarry> i haven't really been paying attention
<foobarry> seems like playground bravado
<foobarry> masquerading as charitable work
<directhex> it is. but it's raising a bunch of money
<foobarry> who for?
<switchtehbeat> 75 million so far i think like wtf
<directhex> in theory, the motor neuron disease association, and their international equiavlents
<switchtehbeat> cancer foobarry
<foobarry> what is ALS?
<directhex> in practice, macmillan, since they bought the google adwords & plenty of people are talking about ALS and donating to macmillan unthinkingly
<foobarry> ALS = MNDA?
<directhex> foobarry: Amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, the american name for motor neuron disease
<foobarry> ah ok
<foobarry> americans
<directhex> mostly known as "Lou Gehrig's disease", after a famous american sports star who had it
<foobarry> more famous than hawking?
<directhex> for americans, sure
<foobarry> one for hitch hikers fans http://shirt.woot.com/offers/spirit-of-zaphod?ref=cnt_top20_5_img
<foobarry> "I love it, but I hate it because it should have been Janx Spirit. The Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster is a cocktail. All the same, I'll probably buy one."
<foobarry> heh
<zmoylan-pi> or the galactically known gin and tonix variant
<directhex> zaphod's just this guy, you know?
 * zmoylan-pi waves hands over sub-etha radio to change the station
<foobarry> i bought a kindle book that was on offer yesterday for Â£0.99. then later on i received a Â£1 credit for amazon music because of a qualifying purchase :S
<Myrtti> nice
<zmoylan-pi> 1p short of giving them a piece of your mind :-)
<DJones> foobarry: I can do better than that, I use one of the android apps that searchs for free books on Amazon, got one a day or so back for Â£0.00 and also got the Â£1 credit for digital music
<foobarry> \o/
<foobarry> was the book any good?
<DJones> Looked ok to me
<DJones> I can give it a try anyway, not lost anything if its no good
<zmoylan-pi> amazon will be recommending you the weirdest stuff because of your previous 'purchases'? :-)
<foobarry> you can delete them from history
<foobarry> it's even if you looked at them
<foobarry> i got recommended bras for ages after looking at a completely unrelated item
<zmoylan-pi> and the hour or two you looked through the recommended bras they sent? :-)
<popey> DJones: what app is that?
<DJones> popey: Let me find it, there's one for kindle & one for kobo books
<popey> ace
<DJones> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.kindook.bookofday&hl=en
<popey> odd, it refused to install
<DJones> https://play.google.com/store/apps/developer?id=Book%20Monk&hl=en Is the developers of it, a lot of romance books, but occasionally some decent scifi
<popey> i sent it from there to my n7
<popey> "could not be downloaded due to an error. (941)
<DJones> Maybe thinks the link was specific to my play account, perhaps try from the 2nd link
<popey> no, it isnt
<popey> i can see it in the store on my device but it wont install
<DJones> I've just done the Kindle UK freebooks app & thats installed ok for me
<popey> nope
<popey> that one fails too
<DJones> Strange, mine is installed on a N7 (2013) model
<popey> http://techknowzone.com/how-to-solve-fix-error-code-941-google-play-store/
<popey> *boggle*
<popey> ah, i think the internal storage is full
<popey> 576MB free
<DJones> I wouldn't have thought it was that big an app
<popey> hah, clear cache as freeed up 2.3G!
<DJones> heh
<popey> seems to have fixed it. thanks
<DJones> I probably find at least one book that I'd read every other day or so (normally scifi or adventure/thriller)
<DJones> It updates every day, normally around 8-9pm ish
<zmoylan-pi> the bible - **** a real bodice ripper :-p
<foobarry> next moto G will be 5 inch.
<foobarry> not sure if thats a deal breaker
<foobarry> got a message from bayer saying paypal are taking 72 hrs to clear funds atm
<zmoylan-pi> so the money is 'just resting in their account'?
<foobarry> sounds like it
<foobarry> considering i paid on credit card, there is no such funds waiting to clear
<foobarry> "A nine year-old girl in the US has killed her shooting instructor by accident while being shown how to use a high-powered submachine gun."
<directhex> an uzi!
<zmoylan-pi> a fully automatic uzi
<directhex> from a place called bullets & burgers!
<zmoylan-pi> called the last stop ironically enough
<directhex> #1-rated attraction in the whole of las vegas, according to tripadvisor!
<zmoylan-pi> fun for almost the entire family
<foobarry> we instruct 5yr olds
<zmoylan-pi> do you hand them automatic weapons?
 * awilkins boggles at the idea of handing 9 yr olds automatic weapons
<awilkins> Air rifle? No problems.
<awilkins> When I was a kid we all wanted a Black Widow catapult, which is easily a lethal weapon
<zmoylan-pi> depends on the kid, i wouldn't hand nerf to some kids, they'd just use them to persecute cats birds
 * zmoylan-pi remembers the blackwidows, always wanted one, never got one.  i just made my own with wooden branch and rubber bands dennis the menace style
<zmoylan-pi> then later in school a good metal coat hanger did the job nicely
<BigRedS> Ah the proper ~2mm steel ones, not a wire one
<zmoylan-pi> splitters!!
 * diddledan loves when that happens - it's quite a rush
<diddledan> like when you get up too quick and nearly pass out
<davmor2> black widow catapult pffff bowie knife
 * zmoylan-pi must watch crocodile dundee again
<SuperEngineer> ?e sharpens bread knife
<SuperEngineer> [makes as much sense as "black widow catapult pffff bowie knife" ;)
 * brobostigon is happy to say, his brother has beat him again, and he has another nephew.
<SuperEngineer> brobostigon: hope the beating wasn't too violent [tho just a bit is ok]
<zmoylan-pi> \o/ a reason to go shopping for lego
<brobostigon> SuperEngineer: haha
<SuperEngineer> ...sorry folks - in a silly mood - just won a long, long battle to get Montague's Mount [on steam] fitting the screen it's wanted on :)
<davmor2> SuperEngineer: I was expecting something along the lines of cancer whenever I see the line just won a long battle......
 * brobostigon is the aspie of the family, and will never marry nor will he likely ever have children.
<zmoylan-pi> donate to a sperm bank?
<SuperEngineer> Dave2: pesimist!
<davmor2> SuperEngineer: I'm so happy it was only software :)
<SuperEngineer> software ills are always better than real life ones [says SuperEngineer with a torn shoulder muscle]!
 * zmoylan-pi sees your torn shoulder muscle and raises you an artificial hip
<SuperEngineer> ...but how else could I get home early to solve my game-play woes ;)
<SuperEngineer> zmoylan-pi: ouch!
<zmoylan-pi> on the plus side, cyborg 0.1 beta
 * zmoylan-pi just wishes that victorinox made an artificial hip, they'd shove some cool stuff in there :-)
<zmoylan-pi> a motion powered wireless phone charger :-)
 * zmoylan-pi discovers that crocodile dundee didn't make it after last disk loss.  time to dig out dvd for rerip
<arsen> eughh eye strain sucks
<davmor2> arsen: so do vacuum cleaners however them sucking is a good thing ;)  Sorry to hear about the eye though it is annoying
<SuperEngineer> arsen - eye strain or time to visit othalmic optician?
<SuperEngineer> *opthalmic
<zmoylan-pi> test your eyes on the charts from feckarse industries :-p
<SuperEngineer> "nope, I can't see the 3rd row, or the secound, or the first actually - would you mind a lot if I turned the chair to face charts?"
<SuperEngineer> ooo- just realised - I like the new blue Steam Launcher - and circular the notification icon
<SuperEngineer> is being young Luke
 * SuperEngineer wonders where that darn line break came from!
<arsen> is there a difference between UK and EU keyboard layouts?
<arsen> i want the new das keyboard 4 ultimate, but in UK form - hard to find :/
<Myrtti> *squint*
<MartijnVdS> UK keyboards are slightly different
<MartijnVdS> almost every EU country has its own keyboard
<MartijnVdS> NL uses American layouts.. but French and German layouts are WEEEEIRD
<arsen> hmph
<Myrtti> french have azerty
<MartijnVdS> and numbers that you have to press SHIFT for first
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: but for some reason you think it is right to have a US layout in an EU Country :P
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: weirdos ;)
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: I have a UK chromebook to compensate
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: I don't think it's that different really.. I mean who uses Â¬
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: popey for his silly ascii art big letters
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: Weirdo
<arsen> trying to figure out if "EU" means UK on the DAS keyboard 4. as i can only find it listed as EU on amazon, not UK.
<daftykins> arsen i bought from getdigital.de when i got mine, years ago
<daftykins> :)
<shauno> I thought das keyboard had no key markings?
<shauno> so it should just be ansi vs iso - tall enter key (eu/iso) vs no key between lshift & Z (us/ansi)
<Myrtti> some of them do
<shauno> I guess that's just the only context I can see an 'eu' layout making sense
<arsen> daftykins  - so you suspect DE = UK? therefore EU=UK? :o
<daftykins> arsen: nah they just sell UK ones :)
<arsen> ah
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<diddledan> morning
<dogmatic69> any wifi extender recommendations?
<dogmatic69> I have a WN3000RP which seems rubbish
<bigcalm> This appears to work well for my parents: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00BMULADI
<arsen> morning? o_O
<bigcalm> arsen: UGT
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: any idea on the rage it gets?
<arsen> wow, i'm going to have to google that timezone.
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: enough to keep my parents happy :)
<dogmatic69> lol
<arsen> okok. i get it :)
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: I got that one to partly future proof them. They don't have 5GHz yet, but it's there for when they do
<bigcalm> arsen: :)
<dogmatic69> I got 5g
<dogmatic69> \o/
<arsen> smarter response than my usual to when people quiz me for saying "morning" irrelevant of time. :)
<bigcalm> Me too. Makes a huge difference
<bigcalm> Must say that the 5ghz range is pants in my house, but the speed makes up for it
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: is there such a thing that would just use the same ssd?
<Myrtti> none of the mobile devices we have can function efficiently on 2.4 anymore
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: you can change the SSID to the same as your router
<Myrtti> at least when at home
<bigcalm> But do that as the very last step :)
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: it does not conflict?
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: not tried it so I can't comment
<dogmatic69> k
<Myrtti> 2.4 is so full there's about 5 ssids on any channel
<bigcalm> It might very well just work :D
<bigcalm> Looking at the Wifi Analyzer [sic] on my phone, my 5ghz network is the only one in range :)
<arsen> i think half of my devices in my house don't yet support 5g :<
<arsen> can't remember if it was my iphone or ipad, one of them sucked.
<bigcalm> Just noticed that the chromecast is back up to 30 odd quid on Amazon. Making last week's purchase even more pleasing
<arsen> id like to play with a chromecast to see if i actually would want one
<popey> i extended the range of my access point..
<popey> ..by adding another access point
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: same ssd working so far :)
<diddledan> gog.com are going to do other things in addition to games - starting with movies from today
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZQL-8SDyi8
<shauno> what happened to their "like steam" thing?
<diddledan> galaxy?
<shauno> dunno?
<diddledan> as far as I'm aware it's still planned?
#ubuntu-uk 2014-08-28
<diddledan> so my internet seems pretty dead right now since I last spoke at midnight
<diddledan> currently I'm tethered via GSM EDGE speed
<diddledan> damned vodafone having crud connectivity at home
<diddledan> there we go
<diddledan> mucho bettero
<diddledan> I'm gonna rip the naff sky router out though - it gives me nothing but trouble
<shauno> diddledan: you didn't consider, yaknow, just going to sleep?
<diddledan> lol
<Myrtti> mlÃ¤h
<Myrtti> morning, or something
<nigelb> something.
<nigelb> today falls under something
<knightwise> morning everyone
<Myrtti> apparently the IT support has called Dell to change my laptop screen. I wish they had told me that a biiiit earlier.
<knightwise> mornin Myrtti
<knightwise> screen broken ?
<Myrtti> thrip inside it.
<nigelb> My screen scared me the other day.
<nigelb> I closed the laptop, and then it would only light up very dimly
<nigelb> fixed itself a few hours later.
<knightwise> ooh , backlit issue
<nigelb> yeah.
 * knightwise staring at a glassy 10 inch display at the moment
<nigelb> and you know why I closed the laptop?
<knightwise> nigelb: whyzzz ?
<nigelb> so I could check my serial number to mark warranty expiration date.
<knightwise> haha :)
<knightwise> i'm trying out a Ms surface pro today ( a Surface 1)
<nigelb> I was like... yeah, defintiely buying extra warranty when it dies.
<nigelb> s/dies/exires/
<knightwise> hmm.. didn't do that on the company mac.
<knightwise> applecare is a ripoff
<nigelb> I've been told applecare is spectacular.
<nigelb> lenovo is shitty but their support so far has been nice.
<shauno> applecare would be amazing, if they didn't marry it to their "retail experience"
<knightwise> we had a pretty good buying experience getting the mac
<directhex> i have applecare on here. i wonder if they'd be vexed about it running ubuntu
<knightwise> didnt buy it in an actual apple store , we only have resellerrs in belgium
<knightwise> Hahah , saw some benchmarks on how Ubuntu runs faster on the same mac then OSX does
<directhex> for some tasks
<shauno> knightwise, same in ireland.  that's where applecare fall short.  it works well if you want to treat apple-retail as a drop-in center.  if there's no retail, it gets ugly quick
<knightwise> shauno: we shop at a premium reseller , they have their own repair dept , so its pretty ok there
<knightwise> they took care of a 2 repairs on a macbook air I once bought
<shauno> I had to try to convince them that I really didn't fancy taking a 6 hour bus trip to take my phone to my 'local' store
<knightwise> true.
<knightwise> I'm currently hammering away on a surface pro :)
<knightwise> I got a surface pro 1 second hand to play around with , need to keep my Windows skills up too.
<knightwise> 8.1 is not bad , and the pro is a half decent machine ..
<knightwise> but putty has a very hard time with a high res screen. Font sizing is fuzzy and I feel like i'm drunk when I look at the screen right now
<diddledan> morning
<foobarry> morning
<DJones> Yup, it is
<DJones> Morning btw
<foobarry> have an annoying tickly cough
<foobarry> can't stop
<foobarry> its very undproductive
<popey> yo
<DJones> foobarry: I read that free book I got from Amazon last night, turned out to be quite good, seems to be the start of a scifi space opera type of series http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00DSD8ZDK/ref=pe_385721_48724741_TE_M1T1DP
<awilkins> Hmm. Chris Evans was maintaining that this is Pie Day
<awilkins> But internet sources claim it is Bow Tie Day
<awilkins> It's not even British Pie Week!
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diddledan> awilkins, mm pie
<foobarry> scifi space opera :-|
<knightwise> afternoon
<brobostigon> afternoodlings knightwise
<shauno> mmm noodles
<knightwise> hey brobostigon shauno
<knightwise> how are you guys
<brobostigon> could be better, could be worse. and you knightwise ?
<shauno> I'm in pain.  I'm trying to do this "performance review" tripe.  but I've been told not to try to be funny this time.
 * knightwise has accountant whoes
<knightwise> 2 accountants disagreeing on how to organise my company.
<brobostigon> :(
<knightwise> and its all about tax law and crap (and thats not my strong suit)
<knightwise> So i just called in a THIRD opinion.
<brobostigon> result?
<knightwise> still need to sit with the third party
<knightwise> gonna run through the numbers with the SECOND opinion guy on monday
<knightwise> our original accountant is probably going to get fired.
<brobostigon> ah, i see. good luck.
<knightwise> In other news .. i got a MS surface tablet ! :) Not an RT one, a Pro one.
<zmoylan-pi> shouldn't you just put the 2 accountants in one room and which ever one wins is the winner?
<knightwise> (second hand) i would never pay money .
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: that would probably be a good idea too.. but first we need to make up our own minds where we should be going.
<zmoylan-pi> the amount of ms hardware i've landed when others have discarded it...
<knightwise> the cute thing with this surface is when you run Ubuntu on it in a VM.
<knightwise> seems "unnatural"
<zmoylan-pi> well it is ms on a mobile device so unnatural was a given
<knightwise> but in essence its a little I5, 4gig laptop with a 128 SSD drive and high resolution screen.
<zmoylan-pi> can you run linux natively?
<knightwise> its not really a mobile device since it doesnt run RT.
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: I'm not sure , uefi boot would be in the way i guess
 * zmoylan-pi casts ward evil at mention of uefi
<knightwise> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iu0yFGczNY
<knightwise> it has been done apparently
<knightwise> right now i'm running 8.1
<knightwise> Since most of my workflows are cross platform friendly its not really important what OS is under the hood.
<shauno> I'm loving efi.  I can netboot over wifi!
<knightwise> using mobaxterm as a terminal client at the moment. brilliant app
<knightwise> and i let chrome run fullscreen as a metro app , so the thing also feels like a chromebook
<zmoylan-pi> but nowhere near as cheap
<knightwise> true.
<knightwise> but a chromebook is just a thin client . this thing can run VM's :)
<knightwise> (plus i didnt PAY for it , i traded off an old laptop fo mine for it)
<zmoylan-pi> a chromebook can run linux natively if you really want
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: also true. and then we call it a netbook.. (been there done that ? )
<zmoylan-pi> but few netbooks left on sale so they're my only hope to replace my 4 year old hp 210 netbook
<zmoylan-pi> though it looks like ms is pushing for new netbooks to counteract chromebooks undercutting them
<zmoylan-pi> as long as they all run linux \o/
<knightwise> true.
<zmoylan-pi> though if someone made a z88 case that took a rasp pi i'd jump on it in a heart beat
<zmoylan-pi> all console apps, but with modern usb, wifi, sd card slots... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambridge_Z88
<BigRedS> yeah, I keep wanting a modern psion 5mx before realising that that's a small tablet and a bluetooth keyboard
 * zmoylan-pi misses the psions
<zmoylan-pi> run a week on 2 aa batteries, with full desktop apps, not cut down silly apps
<foobarry> psion revo was great
<zmoylan-pi> i think they still sell them
<foobarry> i read a whole book on it too
<foobarry> best agenda software i ever used
<zmoylan-pi> the psion 3a keyboard has never been beaten
<foobarry> then you go on holiday and forget to charge it
<foobarry> and it loses its memory
<zmoylan-pi> agenda... make a recurring appointment for 3rd wednesday of every 2nd month.  ok...
<zmoylan-pi> never found a pim that could do that since
<zmoylan-pi> and it understood that every 4th wednesday of the month and last wednesday of the month were not always the same
<foobarry> and it fit in my suit pocket
<zmoylan-pi> i had a rather expensive leather belt holster for psion 5s.
<dwatkins> some companies are making devices with Kindle-like displays which you can write on, I think there's a prototype available in Japan from Sony.
<dwatkins> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvJuLK65dio
<zmoylan-pi> there was mention of a 7" screen kit for rasp pi so might have to make my own sub netbook :-)
<awilkins> I wanted a PalmOS cart for the Nintendo DS
<awilkins> It would be an awesome organiser
<zmoylan-pi> the ds really could be an excellent pda/playform if nintendo allowed it
<zmoylan-pi> the new non folding ds screams for a real keyboard and apps
<popey> zmoylan-pi: http://www.pocketgamer.co.uk/feature.asp?t=how_to&c=4219
<zmoylan-pi> nice
<knightwise> Frack :)
<knightwise> type covers for the Surface are only in available in hot pink and hot blue !
<diddledan> knightwise, pink for you
<knightwise> diddledan: I thought somebody would say as much
<knightwise> (don't google knightwise mega-mindy incident)
 * diddledan googles knightwise mega-mindy incident
<dwatkins> oh my, I may have to do this now - I was just going to use it to control my DSLR...
<dwatkins> http://www.hdrlabs.com/occ/ for details
<knightwise> I reinstalled the mac mini last week
<knightwise> single booted it in ubuntu to make a fileserver / vmware server out of it.
<knightwise> not bad at all
<knightwise> but I had to install the package that runs the fans and temperature control
<knightwise> Almost had my own little meltdown here in the cupboard
<diddledan> MELTDOWN!
<knightwise> very true
<awilkins> GBBO ICE CREAM MELTDOWN
<foobarry> melton mowbray
<zmoylan-pi> pink makes it less stealable
<directhex> msata ssds are tiny
<foobarry> turns out that they didn't keep records of who's done all this crappy compulsory training
<foobarry> and they are asking us to tick next to each one we have done \o/
<foobarry> thats easier than doing the trainign surely
<zmoylan-pi> you should be made bring all your certificates in! :-)
<zmoylan-pi> foobarry bsc ssc :-p
<foobarry> its all this H&S for managers trainign etc
<foobarry> where you have to sit in a room and be bored for a day
<foobarry> when you raise a H&S query it gets ignored
<zmoylan-pi> that's why pdas were invented, it looked like you were taking notes but actually running simcity.  doesn't work as well with mobile phones :-(
<foobarry> this is waht happens when you make me do H&S training
<foobarry> http://i.imgur.com/3GVfFcz.jpg
<awilkins> DS Organizer : includes IRC client. Coolio.
<zmoylan-pi> thought it was going to be buzzword bingo card
<zmoylan-pi> i have a java based irc client on my feature phone :-)
<knightwise> hmmm. one of my external disks failed on the server
<knightwise> perhaps its a good time to get a NAS drive
<foobarry> microserver
<diddledan> +1
<diddledan> I want a microserver
<awilkins> Was all excited to discover that you can get full runtime on AWS for free
<awilkins> But only for 12 months :-(
<Myrtti> well, atleast the good part about the Dell service thing is that I've cleaned a bit, and my mobile's battery has lasted a bit better because I've had to keep the phone in a place where it actually gets some mobile signal.
<Myrtti> (no, they've not called or been here yet)
<MartijnVdS> http://www.commitstrip.com/en/2014/08/28/nightmare-at-the-office/?utm_source=feedly&utm_reader=feedly&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=nightmare-at-the-office
<j0sh^_> Hey guys, whats the best way to deal with DNS propagation during a hosting switcheroo? Iptables to redirect old -> new ?
<SuperMatt> j0sh^_: that's quite doable, but personally I just like to lower the ttl to 5 minutes a day before the switch
<j0sh^_> aye, but client/ISP caching world wide can cause issues
<j0sh^_> so I want a redirect on old anyway
<SuperMatt> tbh, I tell my customers that any client caching is the client's fault if they see the site down
<mapps> hi all
<mapps> ;]
<mapps> damn wifi in this hotel goes eveyr fewmins
<mapps> ;((
#ubuntu-uk 2014-08-29
<knightwise> hey OERIAS
<OERIAS> Shalom
<knightwise> how are you man ?
<OERIAS> Really good just out here playing with a few new toys.
<knightwise> Same here , what do you have to play with ?
<knightwise> hey rubytor
<Myrtti> innit a 'brilliant' feeling when you've slept like two hours last night and poorly the whole week, and when you get online (fortunately no need to go out of home to work) everything is just sub-par your expectations, people complaining, and you just comfortably slip into the misanthropic zone of mind. yyyyyaaaaayyyhh. I should just dig a hole and hide in there for a day.
<OERIAS> knightwise, a galaxy tab and an s4.
<Myrtti> AHHAHHAHAHHAHAHHA burst water main in the village
<Myrtti> aint that great
<knightwise> Both nice devices .  I have a galaxy tab pro for my main tablet and reading .. and a note 3 which i love
<Myrtti> I'm reduced to tears.
<Myrtti> I know mobile signal amplifiers are illegal in Finland but are they illegal in UK, too?
<MartijnVdS> aren't they illegal everywhere?
<MartijnVdS> I mean.. Vodafone have their "plug this into an outlet in your home and you'll have better coverage" boxes.. but those are owned (and secured) by them
<Myrtti> well if they sell them openly in US, one would assume they're not illegal there
<Myrtti> http://consumers.ofcom.org.uk/phone/mobile-phones/coverage/mobile-repeaters/
<Myrtti> little googling helped
<MooDoo> morning all
<popey> Myrtti: interesting, I didn't realise they were banned here
<knightwise> morning everyone
<directhex> is it?
<knightwise> directhex: try opening blinds
<knightwise> the daystar has risen !
<knightwise> ( at least in my part of the world)
<directhex> IT BURNS
<directhex> YOUR WORLD ORBITS A BALL OF FIRE
<knightwise> When I go outside and watch the sky, there are no icons in the upper left corner .. why is that ?
<foobarry> stupid cough :(
<knightwise> foobarry: its the "sumautumn""
<shauno> monsoon season here :/
<Myrtti> it's rained so much that most of the ripest tomatoes have split
<Myrtti> it's a bit disappointing
<Myrtti> knightwise: upper left? not upper right?
<knightwise> Myrtti: structuropath
<knightwise> we are said to get better weather next week
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: they always say that
<brobostigon> morning, boys and girls.
<MartijnVdS> hey brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS
<knightwise> hey brobostigon , MartijnVdS
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<popey> yo
<bigcalm> Ho ho
<knightwise> Hey popey bigcalm !
<directhex> http://games.on.net/2014/08/readers-threatened-by-equality-not-welcome/
<shauno> that's a bit more sane than I expect from a gaming site.  quelle surprise?
<bigcalm> My boss is sending me a USB stick formatted as a MacOSX drive. Can Ubuntu 14.04 mount it?
<zmoylan-pi> i think it can read it
<zmoylan-pi> not write
<bigcalm> I don't need to write, just read
<directhex> hfsplus works
<zmoylan-pi> http://askubuntu.com/questions/332315/how-to-read-and-write-hfs-journaled-external-hdd-in-ubuntu-without-access-to-os
<MartijnVdS> in that case you're probably in luck
<bigcalm> We (me) need to set up a bittorrent tracker system for the company. We're all work from home people and need to shift large amounts of data about. Is there a recommended tracker?
<knightwise> I use bittorrent sync
<knightwise> it works very reliable
 * popey tuts
<popey> syncthing!
<popey> bigcalm: how many people?
<bigcalm> popey: 4 at the moment, may grow
<popey> syncthing!
<opalepatrick> I have had a prob with ubuntu since 13.10 I think. Grub just locks so I cant select other distros, just the default, which luckily is ubuntu that I work with.
<opalepatrick> I fix it with boot-repair, it works, then when I get any sort of update it seems, it freezes again
<opalepatrick> I used to think it was only on header updates only, but it seems to happen regardless.
<awilkins> bigcalm, Have you considered something like a Synctus (or other block-syncing NAS storage system) ?
<foobarry> so zinio went down last night. my app wouldnt run and i couldn't access my magz
<foobarry> so much for offline reading
<foobarry> tweets to zinion cust support not replied 14h later
<awilkins> DRM!
<opalepatrick> any ideas ^^^?
<foobarry> your arrow key is broken?
<opalepatrick> thanks foobarry
<foobarry> if you tap a key on the grub scren does it stay there waiting for you to press enter
<bigcalm> Bother, they left
<bigcalm> I was going to say to try chaning the USB port the keyboard is plugged into. I have 3 keyboards connected to this machine, not all of them are active during GRUB
<directhex> especially with uefi
<directhex> where "fast boot" disables the keyboard
<knightwise> I just saved 4 hp laptops from the scrapheap
<knightwise> some school was gonna throw them out
<foobarry> maybe they thought i was being facetious ;)
<knightwise> NC6120
<knightwise> probably slap LXLE on them and give them away to students or kids who might need one
<foobarry> !ping
<lubotu3> pong!
<MartijnVdS> whoa, new steam icon
<foobarry> did everyone have a day off today or what?
<popey> i was super busy today
<MartijnVdS> me too
<BigRedS> I went to EMF camp
<popey> i kinda wish i did
<BigRedS> It's a bit quieter than  was expecting
<BigRedS> I mostly came because we decided at work to have a lan party tent
<ali1234> i don't understand this gif http://i.imgur.com/RQLNH2X.gif
<ali1234> specifically i don't understand why it's supposed to be funny
<BigRedS> that looks like a fantastically complex way of not needing to push-start the car
<ali1234> yeah, i figured there's a reason they can't push start it, like the ground is too rough
<ali1234> as for the thing getting wrapped around the wheel. just put the gear in neutral and apply the brake, then remove it
<ali1234> so i don't understand the joke
<OERIAS> Anyone here tried Oracle Linnux
#ubuntu-uk 2014-08-30
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<foobarry> brobostigon: do you plot the number of online users in this chan too?
<foobarry> be interested to see if there's been a downward trend in last couple of years
<brobostigon> i do not, no.
<foobarry> sure there used to be around 130 on average
<brobostigon> ok,
<popey> you could proably go back over irclogs.ubuntu.com and see how many people spoke
<foobarry> when freenode splits and rejoins it tends to annouce the no of people in the join
<popey> not logged unfortunately
<foobarry> meh
<foobarry> doesn't matter
<popey> i agree with you though
<popey> things are quieter
<foobarry> and summer is quiet still of course
 * popey tickles bigcalm 
<foobarry> irc is in decline generally i suppose
<shauno> last I heard most irc networks were in decline, but freenode was bucking the trend
<foobarry> http://royal.pingdom.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/irc.001.jpg
<popey> 570616
<foobarry> http://royal.pingdom.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/irc.002.jpg
<foobarry> shauno: ^^
<shauno> ah yes, that's the exact article :)
<popey> what do people use instead?
<popey> MSN ? â»
<popey> heh, I just pinged someone on MSN who I haven't spoken to for some years
<shauno> I Think facebook's pretty much eaten everything at this point
<popey> yeah
<foobarry> that should go into reverse soon ,
<shauno> even people I used to talk to on google talk/chat/whatever, I talk to on fb now that google have broken federation
<foobarry> i was messaging some people recently and only 2 have seen the message
<foobarry> the other 3 haven't installed facebook messenger on their phone
<popey> my wife only uses fb messenger now
<popey> although she went to a party and someone introduced her to whatsapp
<popey> she came home and asked why I'd never shown it to her!
<foobarry> although my phone delivers fb messages still witohut the separate app
<foobarry> cos its expensive ... $0.99 per year!
<popey> I've started using telegram
<foobarry> telegram sucks for group messages
<popey> people pay for it?
<foobarry> whatapp charge you after 1 yr of use
<popey> news to me
<foobarry> at least telegram doesn't have th esilly artificial restrictions of twitter
<foobarry> or all phone types, WhatsApp is free to download and try for the first year. After, you have the option of extending your subscription for $0.99 USD per year.
<DJones> Is it safe to remove the ubuntuone indicator from the top  bar in 14.04? and if so what the best safest method? Synaptic lists ubuntuone-client and ubuntuone-client-data as being installed
<popey> yes
<popey> remove both
<DJones> And ubuntuone-control-panel?
<popey> ya
<popey> you dont need any of them
<DJones> Ta
<DJones> To be removed includes ubuntu-desktop is that just the meta-package
<popey> oof
<popey> i thought we already removed it from the seed
<DJones> That comes from complete removal of ubuntuone-client-data
<popey> i guess not then
<DJones> I think maybe I may leave it for a while & see if I can find a guide for that, certainly don't want to remove ubuntu-desktop
<DJones> Ubuntuone-client wants to remove deja-dup-backend-ubuntuone and ubuntuone-control-panel
<popey> makes sense
<DJones> ubuntuone-client-data wants to remove deja-dup-backend-ubuntuone, python-ubuntuone-client, python-ubuntuone-control-panel, ubuntu-desktop, ubuntu-sso-client-qt and ubuntuone-control-panel
<DJones> Removing ubuntu-desktop seems somewhat bad looking at the "depends" for the package http://packages.ubuntu.com/trusty/ubuntu-desktop
<popey> it wont remove those too
<popey> i thought we had this sorted with an update
<popey> http://askubuntu.com/questions/309122/removing-ubuntu-one
<DJones> I'll give that 1st answer a go, 58 upvotes looks positive
<DJones> Thanks popey, worked a charm
 * DJones upvotes popey 
 * foobarry removes it too
<foobarry> signs in to upvote and notices u1 logos on the openid pages
<foobarry> 60 upvotes :P
<popey> U1 does still exist
<popey> it's only the file sharing bit that shut down
<foobarry> and notes :(
<foobarry> look out for the vulcan
<foobarry> on its way to bournemoth
<foobarry> just passed newbury
<popey> grrr, utopic desktop is not using the nvidia driver for some reason
<popey> nvidia driver installed and built.
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8188295/ xorg.log
<popey> [    12.756] (EE) Failed to load module "nvidia" (module does not exist, 0)
<foobarry> those uujkji~.
<foobarry> woops. lost internet
<Buffy743687> Slight problemo /uk  http://paste.ubuntu.com/8188486/
<foobarry> Buffy743687: did you succesfully change thepassword?
<Buffy743687> no
<Buffy743687> It said I had a token manipulation error.
<foobarry> maybe you changed the root password
<foobarry> To reset your password type this in
<foobarry> passwd <username>
<foobarry> did you do that?
<Buffy743687> yes .. but I didn't change the password using sudo .. Is that what you mean ?
<foobarry> i wondered why the To reset your password type this in
<foobarry> woops
<foobarry> i wondered why the lost password link didn't work
<foobarry> on help.ubuntu
<foobarry> using init=/bin/bash at the end of grub line
<foobarry> then changing the password
<Buffyy34257> foobarry: Still problemos .. you there .. I pinged out for 5 minutes, sorry.
<foobarry> are you following the directions exactly?
<Buffyy34257> I believe so .. I tried several times .. including the appending the grub menu .. What is a token Manipulation error, then ?
<foobarry> try passwd -d <username> first
<foobarry> to delete the password
<Buffyy34257> foobarry: Oh maybe notit says cannot lock /etc/shadow .. I'm am sorry I am a new user.
<Buffyy34257> foobarry: It Says=  passwd: cannot lock /etc/shadow; try again later.
<Buffyy34257> I only have four hours to sort this mess out . I'm in a bit of a fix .
<moreati> Buffyy34257: What's the output of this command? ls /etc/*.lock
<Buffyy34257> No such file or directory  .. ls: cannot access /etc/*.lock
<Buffyy34257> I may need to mount first .. but I am at my username .. alright.
<Buffyy34257> back soon .. dinner just pinged. #nomnomnom
<moreati> Buffyy34257: mount? Did you boot from a LiceCD or something?
<moreati> *LiveCD
<Buffyy34257> no .. standard install .
<Buffyy34257> 14.04 desktop +Unity
<Buffyy34257> here's wat I did : http://paste.ubuntu.com/8188486/  Althou I may have just altered the 'root' password thou ? #notAquestion .. but you get my meaning.
<moreati> Unless you did something unusual, then the user called root has no password on Ubuntu
<Buffyy34257> fair enough .. but wat does " Token Manipulation error " sound like to you ?
<popey> http://askubuntu.com/questions/91188/authentication-token-manipulation-error
<moreati> Buffyy34257: What does the command prompt you're at say. Type it or paste it exactly as you see it
<popey> fs is mounted ro probably
<popey> need to mount -o remount,rw /
<popey> then do the passwd change
 * popey goes to play games
<Buffyy34257> root@FseidScreeuyn:~#
<Buffyy34257> cheers popey
<moreati> Buffyy34257: popey's almost certainly right
<moreati> (price I pay for taking the long route)
<Buffyy34257> I dont understand wat to put on the grub 'linux' line after pressing 'e' ..
<Buffyy34257> after the root=UUID= ...  it says ro  quiet splash $vt_handoff
<Buffyy34257> where do I put it in there ?
<moreati> Buffyy34257: you don't need to do anything at grub. You're already at the command prompt where you type that remount command
<Buffyy34257> Oh Ok .. will do.
<Buffyy34257> how do I know that is has mouned .. what command s that to find out ?
<Buffyy34257> **mounted .. please ?
<moreati> mount | grep ' / '
<moreati> note the spaces between the quote marks
<Buffyy34257> it Says " /dev/sda1 on / type ext 4 (rw,errors=remount-ro)  .. have I done that part, then ?
<moreati> yes, rw means "read write"
<Buffyy34257> I'm typing # mount -o remount,rw /                  at the terminal hash sign. Oh .. O .. proceeding as planned then .. hang-on ..
<Buffyy34257> no it didn't work .. the password prompt just comes back up again .. Huh ?
<Buffyy34257> It said it changed it successfully though .. go figure. (?)
<moreati> reboot and try it
<Buffyy34257> I shall try a complete shut down then stating it up again at the log-in screen.
<moreati> Buffyy34257: sorry, that's what I meant
<Buffyy34257> It says something about skipping 'mount' Is that something I need to be worried about ?
<moreati> I don't know, without the full message
<Buffyy34257> Just a startup thing .. nothing serious .. anyway back to the log-in screen.
<Buffyy34257> Interesting.
<Buffyy34257> When I type the password in improperly it ust refreshes the "Password Box" however ..
<Buffyy34257> When I type my new password in 10x "z" .. It just goes blank for a second then return to he same log-in screen .. two passwords (one correct) .. same resulting login screen ..
<Buffyy34257> However when I type the correct password in It negates to say " Invalid password, please try again " .. which it does when I type the Password in incorrectly .
<moreati> Buffyy34257: press Ctrl+Alt+F1, try the password at the command prompt
<moreati> Ctrl Alt F7 to return to the GUI
<Buffyy34257> yes!I'm In .. that did it.
<moreati> right so your password is working, but Ubuntu can't load your desktop (.e.g. Uunity, KDE etc)
<foobarry> next things to check might dmesg, disk free (df) and xserver logs.
<Buffyy34257> it says " signature ot ound in user keyring "  OK .. what command Do you want me to bash out ?
<moreati> Buffyy34257: at the command prompt run ls - does it show the correct contents of your home directry?
<Buffyy34257> it says ..
<Buffyy34257> Access-Your-Private-data.desktop  .ecryptfs  .Private  README.txt
<Buffyy34257> I did " ls -a "
<popey> ruh roh
<moreati> oh right, you had encryption setup then
<Buffyy34257> Rowing tonight ?
<foobarry> maybe having a scooby snack
<moreati> Scooby do speak for Uh oh!
<moreati> Buffyy34257: do you care about the contents of this home directory?
<Buffyy34257> There are files that I want to keep .. but privacy .. No.
<moreati> Buffyy34257: Do you have backups of those files?
<Buffyy34257> Not yet.
<foobarry> what you've esentially done is what a thief can do to your laptop
<Buffyy34257> That was this weekend's plan , actually.
<foobarry> if the files are encrypted, you can't access them without password
<Buffyy34257> So there no way back .. if you forget your password, it would seem ?
<foobarry> no, since you are in the same position as the thief atm without yuor old password
<moreati> The whole point of an encrypted home is that you can't see the contents if you don't have the password
 * Buffyy34257 consults bits of paper furiously around the lounge for clues :O
<popey> yeah, you need the old password
<popey> then you can do this http://askubuntu.com/a/383269
 * popey goes out for curry.
<foobarry> mmm curry
<popey> nom nom http://www.gurkhapalacerestaurant.co.uk/
<hirectdex> gah, another freeview renumbering?
<foobarry> i havemnt retuned in yonks
<foobarry> maybe ~1yr
<foobarry> rescanned
<Buffyy34257> foobarry: Well I can't find it .. but there a $10 bounty going if anyone wants the mithering ? http://ow.ly/ATAsB
<Buffyy34257> bye bye Septemberists.
 * Myrtti raises an eyebrow
 * popey returns from curry
<MartijnVdS> curreh
 * foobarry returns from drwho
<foobarry> i need to find out how to block "hot on google" posts
<foobarry> they are all chicks firing guns lately
<ali1234> https://support.google.com/plus/answer/1686118?hl=en-GB
<foobarry> ta
<foobarry> non intuitive
<ali1234> it's the same as muting posts from someone you follow
<foobarry> i already had fewer, but the gun loving yanks just decided it for me
<ali1234> i had to mute my "canonical" circle during the edge campaign because they would all repost the exact same article every day and flood my stream
<foobarry> heh
<foobarry> yeah, i think i muted castro, bacon et al around the same time and didn't unmute after
<ali1234> g+ really needs to detect when everyone shares the same thing and only show it once
<foobarry> yeah
<foobarry> and a few other improvements needed
<popey> yeah, it could do with a de-dupe
#ubuntu-uk 2014-08-31
<mapps> hi all
<OERIAS> hey mapps
<OERIAS> Anyone here has tried PA roms?
<j0sh^> Ey guys, any iptables gurus here? Trying to migrate a web server hosting and do redirects from old -> new using IPtables, while DNS propogates
<MartijnVdS> j0sh^: you want DNAT
<MartijnVdS> probably
<j0sh^> MartijnVdS: currently am using:
<j0sh^> iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -p tcp --dport 443 -j DNAT --to-destination NEWSERVERIP
<j0sh^> iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -p tcp -d NEWSERVERIP --dport 443 -j MASQUERADE
<j0sh^> but on the new web server, it's logging the IP address of the OLD server for incoming requests
<MartijnVdS> masquerade? I don't think that's necessary
<j0sh^> which is the http_x_forwarded_for address
<MartijnVdS> yeah.. that's because you're doing this on the IP level
<MartijnVdS> if you want a proper X-Forwarded-For, you'll have to set up your web server to do the reverse proxying work
<j0sh^> MartijnVdS: I thought thats what MASQUERADE was for. So it sends to new server as if from original client, not itself...
<MartijnVdS> no, it can't
<MartijnVdS> Routing and ARP don't work that way
<MartijnVdS> (if it did, you could spoof being any IP as a client, by setting up a masquerade rule)
<j0sh^> Am following this btw: http://serverfault.com/questions/371833/changing-servers-redirect-to-new-ip-no-downtime
<j0sh^> :/
<j0sh^> rather blindly may I add
<MartijnVdS> that might work if they're both on the same network.. or it might not
<j0sh^> So there is no way to redirect all traffic from old web server to new web server ( while DNS propogates ) and keep the client IP?
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MartijnVdS> hi brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS
<popey> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20140826-minnesotan-world-first-3d-printed-concrete-castle-in-his-own-backyard.html
<popey> want â»
<mapps> hi all
<zmoylan-1i> greetings carbon based lifeforms :-)
<mapps> :D
#ubuntu-uk 2015-08-24
<knightwise> morning
<daftykins> bed for me, shift change!
<daftykins> \o
<maps> morning
<maps> sup daftykins
<daftykins> just off to bed
<daftykins> nn :>
<MooDoo> morning all
<diddledan_> mernin
<diddledan__> oops
<diddledan__> mernin again
<bittin> yay 4 episodes backlog :)
<diddledan__> m00
<bittin> meow
<davmor2> Morning all
<diddledan__> allo
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<bittin> morning
<davmor2> diddledan__: while the long tail :)
<Laney> i'm in bits about the 1D news
<Laney> hold me
<foobarry> need to get my tattoo removed
<foobarry> 1D 4eva
<Laney> keep the faith
<Laney> in 10 years when the money has run out they'll be back
<diddledan__> davmor2: it's cute, isn't it, my tail?
<davmor2> while why even meh not enough coffee :(
<diddledan__> lol
 * diddledan__ puts-up the intraveinous
<popey> morning
<diddledan__> allo popey
<bittin> top of the morning to you
<davmor2> morning popey
<foobarry> Laney: in 10yrs they will do a comeback tour that will make money money than if they had never stopped!
<diddledan__> foobarry: money squared?
<diddledan__> methinks your brian works faster than your fingers :-p
<foobarry> i've also been on holiday for two weeks
<foobarry> new google hangouts web page sucks
<bashrc> in what way?
<foobarry> i thought it would be better
<foobarry> better presentation of chats
<foobarry> but they've just taken the gmail window away and not changed the tiny chats in the corner
<popey> London is wet
<foobarry> very very wet
<nigelb> tws
<nigelb> *twss
<foobarry> also TUBE STRIKE this week, scumbags
<popey> luckily I work walking distance from Waterloo
<popey> so rarely use the toob when here
<foobarry> where are canonical based now?
<popey> still in the same place, blue fin
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
 * bashrc thinks there should be a general strike until everyone gets a living wage
<SuperMatt> hat would be nice
<czajkowski> popey: if it is poouring you can get a bus right outside Waterlook to directly outside the bluefin
<popey> bus!?!?!
<czajkowski> popey: aye
<czajkowski> bus outside  beside the shell office
<czajkowski> goes directly to blue finn and stops outside M&S
<czajkowski> popey: #381 or the Tower bridge one
<davmor2> popey: it is also walking distance from Euston so I don't bother anymore either
<popey> cant recall the last time i went on a bus in london
<popey> the walk is nice
<davmor2> popey: it's about 48 minutes on tube and walking from Euston and 43 minutes-ish to walk depending on how energetic I feel :)
<popey> 20 min walk from home to station for me, 10 mins from waterloo to bluefin
<davmor2> popey: 3 minute walk to the station for me and then normally about 35-38 minutes to blue fin from euston. pretty straight path too discovered it using the phone :)
<czajkowski> popey: aye walk is nice, except if it's raining :)
<czajkowski> popey: although you're missing co working day :( 2 from RH this week
<davmor2> czajkowski: no it's nicer when it's raining, you don't have that horrible clamy atmosphere you get in London then
<davmor2> plus it cools you down as you walk :)
<czajkowski>  davmor2 gives you that fresh out of shower look walking into the office :)
<davmor2> czajkowski: see more and more plus, you just need to take a bottle of wash and go with you and shower ensemble is complete right ;)
<diddledan__> yeesh: https://imgur.com/a/DyQZL
<bigcalm> neuro: Softcat
<davmor2> bigcalm: is that like nyancat with slower music?
<foobarry> softcat warmcat little ball of furr
<MooDoo> foobarry: warm kitty happy kitty purr purr purr ;)
 * zmoylan-pi wonders who is sick...
<SpongeBob> hello
<SpongeBob> is anybody there
<davmor2> yes
<bashrc> no
<SpongeBob> hello
<SpongeBob> what is this all about
<davmor2> SpongeBob: Ubuntu? Irc or the UK
<SpongeBob> IRC haha
<SpongeBob> know about ubuntu and i live in Ireland so i know the UK to well
<SpongeBob> just this chat app
<diddledan__> I'm uncomfortable. it must be these square pants
<SpongeBob> lolololol
<davmor2> SpongeBob: irc is just a chat method we happen to be hear to talk about well anything really, you need to follow the code of conduct, but that is about it
<diddledan__> davmor2: s/hear/here/
<SpongeBob> and is there only one chat room? dosent seem to be many on
<SpongeBob> also any advice,im a noob
<xwyfgotitall> Hello, my ubuntu was unable to pick up the sound drivers from my asus z170-a motherboard. after some meddling around on here my friend had assistance but ended up breaking the OS a little. can anyone assist in getting it back on track please?
<davmor2> diddledan__: thanks I'd got talk and here in my head at the same time so wrote the wrong hear :)
<diddledan__> SpongeBob: you're in a chatroom called #ubuntu-uk - it's hosted on a third-party IRC service called freenode - there are MANY IRC services on the interwebs and many more chatrooms within those different services
<SpongeBob> how do i browse the chatrooms?
<diddledan__> the chat program you're using can connect to any of these
<SpongeBob> i see, and how to browse?
<davmor2> SpongeBob: what client are you using
<SpongeBob> XChat - GNOME
<davmor2> SpongeBob: Menuâserverâlist channels
<SpongeBob> i cant see menu
<davmor2> SpongeBob: top of the window, if you are on 15.04 top bar if you are on anything older, if you are on the unity desktop
<diddledan__> oops
<diddledan__> wb
<spongebob_> hey
<spongebob_> dunno what happened there got lost and randomly got back, this is confusing
<davmor2> SpongeBob_:the menu is at the  top of the window, if you are on 15.04 or the top bar if you are on anything older, if you are on the unity desktop
<spongebob_> found it
<spongebob_> i had to to to 'Network' and then 'Channels'
<spongebob_> ill figure this out nice
<spongebob_> any suggestions for chat rooms or tips :)
<davmor2> spongebob_: Youtube and wikis, blogs or websites are possibly better for tips, for advice and friendly banter then irc is the thing :)
<spongebob_> so irc just a bit of fun really, any real ubuntu questions etc google them???
<spongebob_> where are you from
<xwyfgotitall> what if google cant answer your question?
<daftykins> spongebob_: no, official support is in #ubuntu - but you need to at least try for yourself first :) i.e. look things up
<spongebob_> oki doke
<spongebob_> and any good chat rooms on here for the craic
<spongebob_> no chat room ideas?
<maps> hmm]
<daftykins> mmm
<maps> a new walking dead?
<maps> fear the walking dead
<maps> What did the world look like as it was transforming into the horrifying apocalypse depicted in The Walking Dead? This summer, AMC will answer that question with Fear the Walking Dead, an all-new original series set in Los Angeles, following new characters as they face the beginning of the end of the world.
<daftykins> not seen any of any o' that
<diddledan> hic
<Azelphur> Has anyone made a decent x86 tablet yet that'll run Ubuntu? in the sorta <8" form factor
<diddledan> x86 tablets I would guess are a bit of a strange scenario for putting buntu on - if you don't want any fancy touchy-feely then you can prolly just use a standard buntu off an iso
<daftykins> i think it's curry night diddledan!
<diddledan> \o/
 * diddledan watching dark matter
<Azelphur> Dark Matter \o/
<diddledan> lol @ star wars 36 remastered in VR
<Azelphur> diddledan: indeed I don't, I'm after a cheap x86 laptop that charges on USB.
<Azelphur> ala surface without the price tag
<diddledan> I like my surface, but you're right about it being expensive
<daftykins> i'm trying that 'Blunt Talk'
<popey> Azelphur: I'd quite like to try getting ubuntu on the hudl2 but my son uses it
<Azelphur> Yea that's one of the main reasons I was interested in it, but I haven't seen anyone who has actually done it yet
<Azelphur> don't wanna fork out for a tablet if I can't do what I want with it
<diddledan> popey: be a father and confiscate it
<daftykins> ^ :D
<popey> hah
<diddledan> dark matter - I think the android is awesome
<popey> maybe get a second one to hack on, they're cheap enough
<daftykins> http://arstechnica.co.uk/business/2015/08/bbc-fires-met-office-after-93-years-of-weather-forecasting/
<daftykins> wat
<diddledan> daftykins: yeah I saw something about that earlier
<diddledan> daftykins: I'm not sure it's certainly cut-n-dried yet but the motions are happening to get a new supplier
<daftykins> Radio 4 even defrosted John Kettley for an interview
<diddledan> didn't he used to be bergerac?
<diddledan> :-p
<daftykins> pff that was based on Jersey
<daftykins>  we don't speak of that *whistle*
<ali1234> terrible show
<ali1234> i just realised bergerac was a copy of magnum pi
<ali1234> they're both detective shows on an exotic island where the main character drives a red sports car and is friends with a dodgy rich bloke
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> although i'd deduct 'exotic' from that about Jersey
<daftykins> no bias...
<ali1234> jersey is exotic compared to england, like hawaii is exotic compared to america
<daftykins> nah it's just more England :(
<ali1234> in reality sure
<ali1234> i mean it's exotic in the sense that people don't know much about it
<daftykins> *nod*
<ali1234> anyway you know what i mean :)
<Seeker`> http://i.imgur.com/LHglTWT.png Netflix has some interesting ideas...
#ubuntu-uk 2015-08-25
<daftykins> all horror :)
<m0nkey_> ugh, i hate my neighbours
<m0nkey_> in order to resolve the issue with bad wifi signals, they've now resorted to using non-standard channels
<daftykins> as in the 13 and 14?
<m0nkey_> i wish they were available here
<m0nkey_> no, 1 6 and 11
<m0nkey_> i got neighbours on 4 and 7
<daftykins> i know which are non-overlapping :P
<daftykins> eh that's not so big a deal
<m0nkey_> I'm half tempted to tell people in my block to use 1, 6 or 11
<m0nkey_> 4 and 7 are overlapping, that's the problem
 * daftykins chuckles
<daftykins> i really don't think it's making as much of an impact as you may expect
<m0nkey_> from where i'm sitting, i can see 22 wireless networks
<m0nkey_> that's not a problem?
<daftykins> using wireless is :)
<m0nkey_> yeah, wireless sucks, i don't use it on my desktop.. but the tabs and phones do use it
<zmoylan-pi> i can see 2 ap where i am, mine and my landlords... posh area :-)
<knightwise> morning peeps
<mappps> hi all
<knightwise> hey mappps
<mappps> ;]
<shauno> not morning.  coffee.  coffe now, morning later
<knightwise> hey shauno
<shauno> o/
<mappps> all nighter shauno ?
<shauno> nah, early start
<knightwise> Same here
<knightwise> 6 am talking to some chineese guys
<knightwise> timezones suck
<mappps> heh:D
<mappps> you working already?
<knightwise> yep ,
<knightwise> been at it since 6
<knightwise> long days these days
<mappps> work nfrom home?
<knightwise> yep
<knightwise> for the last couple of days now
<knightwise> Waching old hill street blues episodes in the meantime.
<knightwise> fantastic series .. touching ..
<mappps> never seen a single ep
<mappps> american?
<mappps> im watching murder in the first..good show
<knightwise> one of the highest rated copshows of the last 30 years
<mappps> hm
<MooDoo> hello all
<popey> Good morning
<bashrc> tzag
<foobarry> hashtag to you too
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<czajkowski> Folks in Surrey not sure who but :) http://www.taketheleadservices.co.uk/family-fun-day--dog-show.html
<czajkowski> popey: ^
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<davmor2> czajkowski: you know popey loves cats right?
<czajkowski> davmor2: was thinking more for his kids :)
<diplo> What podcast app do you guys use on Android, got a 4 hour drive tonight and want to grab a few for my phone
<zmoylan-pi> i use podkicker, free and works ok
<diplo> Thanks will take a looksy
<foobarry> if someone does terible parking can i send their photo to council for action?
<jpds> foobarry: Probably not their photo; one of the car itself, maybe.
<foobarry> http://i.imgur.com/qOOPqDY.jpg
<foobarry> pretty bad. i cannot get out of the road, nor can the garbnage truck
<zmoylan-pi> even the white van is illegaly parked.  too close to a junction
<bigcalm> I have a relatively recently built micro server not doing much (yet). I need to move it from a 1 disk install to a 2 disk raid1 array. Should I reinstall using raid1 from scratch or convert the existing install to raid1?
<popey> yes
<popey> probably quicker to reinstall tbh
<popey> I mean, you could add the second disk, make that a 1 disk degraded raid1 array
<bigcalm> That's what I'm seeing from tutorials. But reinstalling from scratch will be simpler
<intrbiz> bigcalm: usually moving stuff around to get the raid metadata on is a PITA
<bigcalm> Looks it
<foobarry> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_Gz_iTuRMM
<foobarry> worth a watch
<diddledan> foobarry: that's a really good theory
<intrbiz> http://cybermashup.com/2015/08/25/how-to-crack-ubuntu-disk-encryption-and-passwords/
<mappps> such a stupid policy.if you cash out over 100 casino ask for your surname..dont need to show any ID or anything..so why bother
<bigcalm> The failed HDD from my raid - I've tried plugging it into another machine via a USB3-SATA cable. tailing /var/syslog shows that the cable shows up but says that no drive is attached. Holding the drive, it's not spinning up or making any other noises. Is it worth replacing the PCB?
<bigcalm> I've found it here http://www.hdd-parts.com/15050601.html
<daftykins> you can't just swap one for another really
<mappps> i thought you can if exact same make and model
<mappps> wows my laptop's getting hot
<bigcalm> It's the exact same PCB, down to the revision number
<daftykins> it has to have the same firmware too - and even then you won't necessarily get access to all the data area on the disk, since disks ship with flaws in specific places that will differ from one to another
<daftykins> bigcalm: if it's a RAID member why do you need it working? was it a RAID-0?
<bigcalm> It's raid1
<bigcalm> I just don't like throwing away stuff :)
<bigcalm> I've already replaced the failed drive
<daftykins> heh
<shauno> personally I'd chuck it.  once a disk has lost my trust, it'll never earn it back
<shauno> I hoard all kinds of stuff, but not disks I can't trust with data
<daftykins> *nod*
<bigcalm> I'll be taking the drive apart and recycling the bits later then
<shauno> if you don't end up getting it to play the Imperial March, we'll be disappointed :)
<daftykins> another wonky seagate
<bigcalm> This is why I bought a star torx screwdriver set. So that I could dismantle all of my old PATA drives
<daftykins> heh, how come? i'm sure our electronics recycling point takes them as is
<daftykins> so unless they're disks you weren't able to wipe in time...
<bigcalm> daftykins: they may do, but I don't trust others with my disks. I want to know I have damaged them enough not to be recovered
<bigcalm> Considering that I can't get this drive to spin up, I won't be able to wipe it from a machine 1st
<shauno> sounds like a good excuse to unleash your inner 12yo :D
 * zmoylan-pi hands bigcalm a fubar
<bigcalm> I had a large collection of very strong magnets for a while
<daftykins> when i have a RAID 5 member pop i don't even wipe it :>
<diddledan> amazon prime is amazeballs
<diddledan> free one day delivery ftw
<daftykins> i find waiting the best part ;)
<daftykins> but then such a service wouldn't work to here anyway really
<shauno> it doesn't work at all here :(
<diddledan> shauno: yeah but you don't exist
<shauno> you just end up paying for the same service level as free shipping already gives you.  it's weird
<daftykins> heh
<shauno> in other news, got mpd streaming to the kitchen now.  this can only be trouble :D
<daftykins> uh oh, music during food prep
<shauno> juts a shame I can't find anything that does multi-room as well as airplay
<daftykins> logitech media server \o/
<shauno> airplay does some evil, evil juju to keep everything synced
<diddledan> I've finally got around to starting to watch halt and catch fire
<diddledan> just started the first ep
<diddledan> oh dear, I'm getting teary-eyed about the 80s now
<davmor2> shauno: sonos and done ;)
<shauno> that's a lot of moneys just to replace one closed-source system with another :)
<daftykins> LMS really does the job, but end devices have to pretend to be a player
<daftykins> plenty of apps for the main ecosystems available
<davmor2> shauno: plexmedia/kodi and a tablet music where ever you are ;)
<shauno> kodi and music are a really bad combination.  I've tried that :/
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> yep useless in library mode
<shauno> completely offtopic .. do the different-sized pcie cards fit in the same slot?
<diddledan> shauno: yes
<shauno> (yes, this is how long I haven't had a PC for)
<diddledan> shauno: the only difference in longer slots is additional isolated lanes - x1 cards work in an x4 slot fine
<diddledan> and vice versa (if you can hack the slot to allow the longer connector to stick out the end
<davmor2> shauno: aiui a 1 will fit in any a 4 will fit in any 4+ and so on
<shauno> gotcha
<diddledan> (I've cut an x1 slot to put an x4 card into it)
<shauno> as stupid as this will sound, trying to figure out how to get a toslink port into the microserver :)
<diddledan> I should know what toslink is
<shauno> optical audio .. s/pdif over fibre
<diddledan> aah
<shauno> the easiest way to stop noisy computer psus making my amplifier hum, is to simply avoid running metal between them
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> gotta love noisy audio circuits
<shauno> I have optical out on the pi, it's fantastic :)
<shauno> and of course it's on all the macs
<daftykins> you can even cut open the end of a slot and put a x16 card in a 1x slot ;)
<daftykins> though you might want to avoid that where possible...
<diddledan> m0nkey_: having fun?
#ubuntu-uk 2015-08-26
<daftykins> http://pastebin.com/edfMbpvS
<daftykins> that's one broken perl
<zmoylan-pi> or someone changed one tiny little thing :-)
<daftykins> i supplied a .tar of the whole folder in the end, fixed it right up
<daftykins> no idea what borked it
<zmoylan-pi> walk into the building and say 'hands up who knows perl' the sod will raise their hand :-)
<daftykins> ah now the truth comes out- it's installed to a flash drive
<daftykins> *rolleyes*
<daftykins> ah the sound of my fan oven since repairing it, i suspect i've gotta take it apart and do the fan + motor now! :(
<daftykins> think i've found one online
<daftykins> Â£64 =|
<daftykins> wb
<zmoylan-pi> just my routers 5am hari kari
<daftykins> like clockwork is it? :)
<zmoylan-pi> set it up and it seems to have eliminated my router problems
<MooDoo> morning
<diddledan> that was nice and quick
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<bashrc> good moaning
<brobostigon> morning bashrc
<davmor2> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning davmor2
<foobarry> is it possible to find which tab is killing firefox?
<popey> morning
<foobarry> i mean cuasing 100% cpu
<popey> hahaha
<popey> we had this conversation last night
<popey> no
<foobarry> :@
<zmoylan-pi> shutdown tabs one by one till not 100% :-)
<foobarry> thats my current approach
<popey> or use chromium :)
<foobarry> i switched because of chrome
<zmoylan-pi> i use opera :-)
<zmoylan-pi> and vivaldi the new opera spinoff
<foobarry> theandroidsoul.com
<foobarry> got it
<foobarry> some phone rooting guide page
<zmoylan-pi> who's rooting who? :-)
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: kinky
<foobarry> gven until 1 sep or i will root my phone and put cyanopgen on
<foobarry> given up wiating for 5.1
<foobarry> 5.0.2 is murdering my phone
<diddledan> so. I watched ALL 20 episodes of halt-n-catch-fire over the course of the night
<diddledan> yey for tv marathon
<zmoylan-pi> i couldn't get through more than 10
<shauno> diddledan: you're not right, you know that?
<diddledan> shauno: you mean in my head?
<diddledan> shauno: medication is supposed to fix that, though, I thought
<diddledan> speaking of which. I guess I should pop some morning pills :-p
<foobarry> thanks i forgot to pop my morning piull
<diddledan> foobarry: druggy!
<diddledan> so, I actually sent the antifraud guys at police.uk an email last night
<popey> diddledan: first season was good, not tried second season
<bashrc> did you claim to be from Nigeria?
<diddledan> it was a twofold message: 1) fix yo shoot. 2) fraud!
<zmoylan-pi> he claimed to be from ms and wanted to fix their computers
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: yup. I even quoted RFC numbers at them :-p
<zmoylan-pi> excellent... and hopefully emailed containy tiny core linux as a replacement :-)
<diddledan> engrish?
<zmoylan-pi> unawake hands pre brekkie
<diddledan> I think my ex is outside with a chainsaw
 * zmoylan-pi places bet on the ex...
<diddledan> well, a few limbs might be lost, but I'm sure it'll end-up in steamy family-friendlies
<diddledan> that's usually how these things go, right?
 * zmoylan-pi rummages in cd collection for soundtracks to tarantino movies...
<zmoylan-pi> i'm thinking reservoir dogs for some reason...
<zmoylan-pi> right time to limp out to city centre...
<diddledan> jeez, it's widdling it down outside
<diddledan> I feel sorry for the chainsaw murd0rer
<diddledan> so, umm. I accidentally ordered a 500GB SSD yesterday. it'll arrive sometime today
<diddledan> seriously, pepsi high and no sleep is a bad combo
<DJones>  Heh, just noticed a new "folder" appeared in my work office 365 email account called "clutter" with one email in it, best line in the email is "Clutter looks at what you've done in the past to determine the messages you're most likely to ignore." The only email in the folder is from MS explaining the clutter folder :)
<popey> :)
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<czajkowski> how meta!
<czajkowski> 2 more days to the bank holiday! whhoop whopp
<czajkowski> Saturday http://www.taketheleadservices.co.uk/family-fun-day--dog-show.html
<czajkowski> Monday Bletchley Park
<czajkowski> cannot wait!
<diddledan> bank holiday?!
<diddledan> omg
 * popey has booked the whole week off \o/
<davmor2> popey: me too
 * czajkowski needs to be in london on the Tuesday :(
<czajkowski> September and October are shaping up to be a mental month
<bigcalm> !rat
<lubotu3> rat is The Real Ale Train. A yearly Ubuntu UK loco event to celebrate friends, trains and ale. Saturday 19th September 2015 Hampshire, UK: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/3040-real-ale-train-2015/
<bigcalm> !oggcamp
<lubotu3> oggcamp is a two day unconference on August 13th/14th 2011 - See http://oggcamp.org/
<bigcalm> Um
<diddledan> that's soon!
<diddledan> :-p
<davmor2> 2011 wow we have to build a time machine to see it
<popey> !no oggcamp i <reply> oggcamp is a two day unconference on October 31st / November 1st in Liverpool - See http://oggcamp.org/ for details
<foobarry> i wold go to that
<popey> bah
<foobarry> but liverpool :(
<popey> !no oggcamp is <reply> oggcamp is a two day unconference on October 31st / November 1st in Liverpool - See http://oggcamp.org/ for details
<czajkowski> also london folks http://london-2015.devrel.net/
<diddledan> so my toys arrived
<diddledan> now to juggle wires until I can get the OS copied across to the SSD
<foobarry> has anyone been watching king of the nerds on sky?
<foobarry> warning: its terrible but i can't stop watching
<foobarry> where is the rain coming from?
<foobarry> the clouds.
<foobarry> where before that?
<bigcalm> The sea
<bigcalm> And lakes
<bigcalm> And rivers
<bigcalm> And my tears
<bigcalm> :'-(
<foobarry> but only if the sun makes the water evaproate?
<foobarry> what sun?
<bigcalm> Sol
<foobarry> its been raining solidly for 4 days
<bigcalm> It's the end times
<shauno> the sun is elsewhere :)
<shauno> cloud forms over see, gets blown your way, bursts.  you don't need sun to be on the receiving end.  just ask ireland ..
<shauno> er, sea
<shauno> Knightmare: is "winkelwagen" actually a good translation for a shopping cart (web)?
<MartijnV1S>  yes
<shauno> I have a page presenting me with a button "toevoegen aan winkelwagen", and to be honest, it sounds a lot like one of diddledan's jokes
<MartijnV1S> add to basket
<MartijnV1S> is what that means
<MartijnV1S> (winkelwagen = shopping cart)
<shauno> fair enough.  I did manage to make the mental leap from cart to wagon
<shauno> but .. well I'm sure diddledan will eventually chime in and tell you all about his winkel
<daftykins> he is oddly slow off the mark today :)
<shauno> he did say he watched 20 episodes last night.  he's probably very far from conscious right now
<daftykins> O_O
<shauno> (I hope)
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/hi9psnk5ba26jol/IMG_20150826_175248.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> don't buy that one, it comes with scary leads
<shauno> lol @ scary leads.  I call them boas.  leads that fight back
 * diddledan wagens his winkel
<daftykins> kids'll do anything for scary leads
<diddledan> what's a view-converter and is getting one for free a good deal?
<daftykins> i imagine it's some googly eye specs
<daftykins> hmm back to shopping for TVs for the boss
<daftykins> for the flat down in Spain ;)
<shauno> wouldn't it make more sense to search in spain?  especially with the euro being a bit pants right now
<diddledan> I just looked at the back of my TV. the cables frightened me
<diddledan> they must be scary leads
<daftykins> well he wants to watch British services back home, so i suspect it might be handy to get a set over here that's got the proper services
<daftykins> plus we're VAT free anyway so it might not be too helpful
<daftykins> you raise a fair point though, mmm
<daftykins> he's got a big shipment of refurb kit going down there so the TVs can join in though y'see
<daftykins> as long as i get them before mid September
<shauno> I keep forgetting about your tax frau...deal
<daftykins> trust me, it's matched up with plenty of getting *ahem*'d over by the UK gov so it's not all peaches and cream
<daftykins> Â£656 for a 48" and a 40", seems alright
<SuperEngineer> just testing (xsetting up AndChat on firm's new tablet). Does iy s
<SuperEngineer> *" doos it stay connected now?
<daftykins> yep major typos and all ;)
<SuperEngineer> Definite haha! Thanks daftykins
 * SuperEngineer deliberately logs off now  ;)   thanks for the patience
<SuperEngineer> [that's better, back on desktop now - thanks again for the help]
<webpigeon> >.>
<foobarry> help me ubunt-uk my only hope...
<daftykins> o0
<foobarry> got my first speeding points. was on holiday and was following a car on unfamiliar road and thought it was 40mph
<foobarry> what happens next after sending back the form to say i dunnit?
<davmor2> ignore foobarry he'll either go away or be captured by stormtroopers and flown off to a space station the size of a small moon
<foobarry> i can't do the driver course as it's 5hrs drive away
<davmor2> no idea never had points before
<daftykins> don't have a points system here ;x
<foobarry> although i was snapped by a secret gun
<m6lpi> foobarry: if the other driver done off a cliff would you follow?
<m6lpi> Drove
<daftykins> perhaps foobarry drives a Bond-esque flying car
<davmor2> or submersible esprit
<foobarry> m6lpi: thanks. i had turned off a 40mph road at a roadabout in unfamiliar area, on a downhill section, no speed signs
<foobarry> these things happen. and the police know as the perched a little man behind a tree with a speed gun
<foobarry> maybe if satnav told me...
<daftykins> ooh entrapment
<daftykins> only probably not as i'm not familiar with the true definition :)
<m6lpi> Right... you need lots of info to properly defend it.
<foobarry> i'm not going to
<foobarry> gonna say fair do's and put it down to experience
<foobarry> but what happens next ?
<foobarry> get sent an invoice? have to send my licence off?
<m6lpi> In that case your options are put yours hands up, pay the fine and take the points or put your hands up and do the course
<m6lpi> Points don't get printed on the license any more
<m6lpi> Bear in mind that the bit with the photo is the license. The paper bit is no longer issued or returned
<foobarry> hm
<m6lpi> Send them back the NIP with your confession, they'll advise what's next (like them sending a bill)
<foobarry> and they will ask for me to send my photocard away?
<m6lpi> Doubt it
<foobarry> just noticed is recently expired :(
<m6lpi> I've not heard of anyone else that's hit a sp40 since the rules changed in June
<m6lpi> As in new photo needed?
<foobarry> i was doing 39 in 30
<foobarry> yeah i think so
<m6lpi> Sp30 then...
<m6lpi> Well, get the photo updated. If needed you can explain to the fuzz that you're awaiting a replacement license due to.photo expiry
<foobarry> will be looking into that tomorrow
<foobarry> unfortuantely i work in a wasteland ghetto
<foobarry> looks like i'm gonna be travelling around a bit
<daftykins> well there we go, couple of TVs ordered ^_^
<daftykins> get to play with those soon enough!
#ubuntu-uk 2015-08-27
<diddledan> yawn
<diddledan> so. terminator genisys or avengers age of ultron
<diddledan> which to watch
<diddledan> or spend my time ripping my blurry discs
<daftykins> with transcode, or 1:1? :)
<diddledan> I don't know how to transcode :-p
<daftykins> handbrake? :>
<diddledan> yeah I don't understand that
<diddledan> I know the app exists but no clue what to do with it
<daftykins> i usually prefer to use makemkv and dump the whole lot to disk to begin with
<daftykins> then i think it's a case of reading a lot to find some config defaults, depends what you care for
<daftykins> i'm ok with core DTS audio myself, so strip all the junk and lossless formats out to cut down on space
<daftykins> then you can pick a sweetspot bitrate and convert
<daftykins> or maybe just use the profiles handbrake offers
<diddledan> so my pc - ssd has reduced time-till-usable-at-boot from 10-15 minutes plus time to manually start services that failed to start due to timeouts to less than 30 seconds
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> I like when an accident comes together
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> vewy gewd
<zmoylan-pi> i use handbrake and rip to ipod classic format.  small files that look grand on 7" screen
<zmoylan-pi> and tonights movie will be tremors
<daftykins> :D classic
<daftykins> Kevin Bacon right?
<daftykins> hrmm who was with him
<zmoylan-pi> they broke into the goddamn wrong rec room :-D
<zmoylan-pi> why do you have cannon fuse?
<diddledan> terminator it is
<zmoylan-pi> a true lesson on why they shouldn't make sequels
<diddledan> hmm, seems I've got a spanish version. well that's sucky
<zmoylan-pi> no asta la vista in that one :-)
<diddledan> in that case then lets go for avengers
<diddledan> hopefully hulk is gonna be funny
<diddledan> and fini
<diddledan> apparently you can't report fraud to the fraud guys via email becuase "data protection"
<diddledan> they emailed me back stating: "Unfortunately Action Fraud are unable to accept information by email due to data protection. Please could you try reporting this via our website again or alternatievely please call Action Fraud Advisor on 0300 123 2040. "
<zmoylan-pi> send a fax or a telegram...
<diddledan> I just trolled them by replying: This is interesting to me. Please could you cite the relevant legislation, and specific sections within, that require that Action Fraud are unable to accept email correspondence.
<zmoylan-pi> well email isn't secure...
<diddledan> so?
<diddledan> secure email is secure
<zmoylan-pi> at some point they'll want some info that shouldn't be in email
<diddledan> email over starttls or standard tls is as secure as https
<zmoylan-pi> i wouldn't assume any email is secure anymore
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/rob_dodson/status/636807739751071744
<popey> morning
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<Myrtti> ahoy hoy
 * zmoylan-pi really wishes that was how people answered the phone...
<Myrtti> Would anyone have any ideas on how to fix my SSL problem with irssi. As probably witnessed last week, it cuts off and clones the connection to freenode because SSL chokes on something. irssi's on 14.04.2 on a Ubuntu VM, it's using openssl 1.0.1ff-1ubuntu2.15 and all the rest of the updates. The connection quits with "error:1408F119:SSL routines:SSL3_GET_RECORD:decryption failed or bad record m---
<Myrtti> ac". I've Googled this as much as I've been able to and my jetlagged/sick brain hasn't been able to make heads or tails of what I'm seeing.
<foobarry> gedit gone crazy
<foobarry> using 5.5gb RAM
<foobarry> never seen such deidcation in a droid before
<diddledan> czajkowski: wow, thanks for that tweet/1; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjRazNBdsZg
<diddledan> that's awesome
<czajkowski> diddledan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZityVFkaj3k
<czajkowski> the entire set!
 * diddledan clicks
<czajkowski> ah old skool
<czajkowski> right here
<czajkowski> right now
<czajkowski> my evening is now complete :D
<Myrtti> get-iplayer â¥
<diddledan> I really worry about that error of chrisccoulson
<diddledan> [Errno 130] Owner died
<diddledan> it sounds nasty
<davmor2> diddledan: you can follow it up with https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3Un3lK8ijw
<diddledan> those two guys are very energetic :-p I'm betting they get through many bows
<bujji> The volume does not contain a recognized file system. Please make sure that all required file system drivers are loaded and that the v olume is not corrupted.
<diddledan> that's nice
<bujji> i am not able to open the pendrive
<diddledan> that's nice
<bujji> how can i open that?
<diddledan> https://youtu.be/JddNDtC-Yrs?t=21
<bujji> lol
<bujji> common man
<bujji> pendrive is detecting but not opening
<bujji> diddledan: o/
<davmor2> diddledan: that's nice
<diddledan> davmor2: feck off :-p
<davmor2> diddledan: hahaha
<diddledan> 75 meeleon windows 10s are now in the wild
<zleap> that is a lot
<zleap> how long before someone finds an exploit and writes a virus for it i wonder
<diddledan> http://cdn.sixrevisions.com/0372-02_cms_learning_curve.jpg
<bujji> lol
<daftykins> diddledan: love it
<DJones> diddledan: It'd be one more if if the crappy thing would upgrade on on of my laptops, tried 4 times, always fails with the same error and MS support is none existant about the problem
<daftykins> DJones: still? 10 i assume
<DJones> Yep
<diddledan> have you tried with the dvd image?
<DJones> Not yet, does that need a new licence number though? That was going to be my next option
<daftykins> nope
<daftykins> just download, create, extract and run the setup
<DJones> Might try that at the weekend then
<daftykins> sounds to me like it's gonna be a backup, clean install of existing then upgrade, then clean install :>
<diddledan> I'd download the iso and first try another in-place upgrade using that. and if that fails then try a clean install using your previous product key (being a laptop it should be in the bios in a manner that causes the setup to just not bother asking you for it)
<daftykins> nah an upgrade has to have occurred first
<diddledan> grr
<diddledan> that's sucky
<DJones> diddledan: Its MS WIndows........No way it'll believe something from bios
<zleap> sounds like a major faff,  having to do a clean install first then upgrading
<daftykins> other way around
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> well you don't have to
<daftykins> depends if you believe in the idea of OS upgrades, i don't :)
<daftykins> the ones i've seen have all gone very smoothly though, it's just i wouldn't trust them anyway
<zleap> for me it depends what I am doing and how long between installs,  sometimes it just needs a fresh install
<zleap> even Linux based system upgrades can go wrong
<daftykins> i'd say it's equally likely :P
<ali1234> joomla is clearly the hardest CMS to use...
<zleap> you only need one thing to make it go wrong too, hence a fresh install is a good idea
<diddledan> the problem with ubuntu/debian upgrades is that they apply to a running system in a piecemeal manner so one package can install and then cause a later package to fail
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> i have had to edit the dpkg database file before manually to
<zleap> for the most part apt is well behaved,
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/GabeAul/status/636984088516259840
<diddledan> and his tweet of 20 minutes ago: https://twitter.com/GabeAul/status/636978477430734848
<daftykins> more importantly we can change more colours
<zleap> how do I determine what version of a package i have installed
<diddledan> \o/
<zleap> e.g 0ad
<diddledan> zleap: dpkg -l | grep package name?
<zleap> ty
<diddledan> hmm: https://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html?ie=UTF8&docId=1003016361&ref_=mas_surl_undrgrnd
<foobarry> does amazon underground replace the shopping app and the appstore app?
<diddledan> pas d'idee
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/xfjxkovuq5lpkdg/wallpapers.zip?dl=0
<daftykins> have some wallpapers, they're on the screensaver on the Amazon FireTVs
<daftykins> mostly nature scenes
#ubuntu-uk 2015-08-28
<mappps> wahh too hot
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> again?
<mappps> ya daftykins
<mappps> always is
<mappps> well for 2 days it was nice at night
<mappps> now stickyhot again
<mappps> wahhhhhhhhhhh
<daftykins> cold here, i'm back to jeans and jacket
<mappps> how cold?
<daftykins> dunno, but a badly insulated home is sensitive to the slightest changes
<mappps> heh
<zmoylan-pi> [Malta, Malta] Condition: Fair | Temp: 25C/77F/298K/536R | Humidity: 83% | Wind Speed 3mph/5kmph
<zmoylan-pi> [Dublin, DUB, Ireland] Condition: Partly Cloudy | Temp: 11C/52F/284K/511R | Humidity: 94% | Wind Speed 15mph/24kmph
<daftykins> what on earth is the 'R' scale o0
<mappps> reverse
<mappps> heh dnno
<mappps> never been malta..you?
<zmoylan-pi> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rankine_scale
<daftykins> ty sir
<zmoylan-pi> [Gibraltar, Gibraltar] Condition: Cloudy | Temp: 21C/70F/294K/529R | Humidity: 94% | Wind Speed 6mph/10kmph
<daftykins> pff 21 is minor
<mappps> heh
<mappps> humidity;p
<daftykins> ah yis
<zmoylan-pi> and it's middle of night
<zmoylan-pi> so the cool part of the day when the house is till holding the heat of the day
<mappps> im waiting for graceland then its bed time ;D
<mappps> yea
<mappps> during day will be awfully hot and stiky
<mappps> wakeup in a puddle
<daftykins> chap i ordered TVs for was saying something about if items are over 6 months old, Spain won't charge import tax o0
<mappps> didnt know spain charge import ayway as its eu?
<mappps> thought eu to eu no import
<mappps> but gib has import duty on EVERYTHING
<mappps> if i buy a tv in spain i can claim tax back n ib then pay gib tax LOL
<daftykins> yeah i'm not in the EU
<mappps> wheres the weather foreast come from daftykins
<daftykins> you should be asking zmoylan-pi :>
<mappps> strange how gib is and isnt they hve eu passports and such but yea imorton all
<mappps> go to careefour buy tv pay tax in spain claimm back pay again
<mappps> odd.no?
<daftykins> what're the rates in each?
<mappps> not sure tb never done it and the gov website didnt tell or i couldnt see
<popey> morning
<davmor2> Morning popey  morning all
<bashrc> g'day
<m6lpi> morning all
<davmor2> diddledan: scarborough fair this morning
<bashrc> are you going?
<davmor2> bashrc: no just got the haunting melody of the song stuck in my head this morning :)
<bashrc> :)
<nucc1> heh. big company can't keep their big kahuna website up: http://www.virginmedia.com/
<bashrc> the bigger they are the dumber they are
<nucc1> he he
<nucc1> i looked at that statement and realised how innuendo-filled it is, just like virgin media themselves
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<nucc1> top of the morning to you, sire
<brobostigon> morning nucc1
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm
 * bashrc waves
 * leecowdrey waves back 
<bigcalm> Why can't I do this? sudo echo "foo" > /etc/foo.conf
<bigcalm> I'm in sudo but it returns permission denied
 * bigcalm resorts to piping echo to sudo tee
<davmor2> bigcalm: try sudo bash echo "foo" > /etc/foo.conf
<bigcalm> davmor2: aha
<davmor2> bigcalm: you get the same error if you do sudo cd /etc/foo/
<nucc1> is /etc/foo.conf on a readonly filesystem?
<bigcalm> nucc1: no, it was just an example. davmor2 has explained that sudo needs to run bash rather than echo. Echo is a command of bash rather than a program itself
<nucc1> ok
<foobarry> whats the best way to backup a non rooted phone ahead of unlocking bootloader
<brobostigon> which phone OS and arch are we talking about?
<foobarry> moto G android 5.0.2
<foobarry> wanna keep as much as possible by way of SMS and whatsapp etc
<brobostigon> does it have custom recovery?
<foobarry> doesn't have TWRP or CWM
<foobarry> i believe that i will lose my data if i unlock bootloader
<brobostigon> then i am afraid, i dont think its possible.
<brobostigon> that correct.
<foobarry> rooting and flashing takes far longer than i ever predict
<brobostigon> you could flash cm12.1, which comes rooted, so you dont need to root it. saves time.
<brobostigon> actually to more precise, it is a simple switch in setting to root/unroot it.
<brobostigon> settings*
<foobarry> CWM or TWRP aren't sticking
<foobarry> i get the "no command" screen
<dangoo87> Greetings good sirs.  I am having an issue where I'm unable to have any sound registered from my microphone (usb headset with two jacks for sound+mic).  I've plugged them in at the back, but no mic sound registered, and the mic volume in sound settings is greyed out at mute.
<brobostigon> foobarry: so your doing, fastboot flash recovery recovery.img - fastboot reboot recovery.img. ?
<foobarry> brobostigon: i'm working now
<foobarry> literally 15 times
<foobarry> in a row, it didn't retain the recovery setting
<foobarry> now i have the age old issue where android isn't restoring my apps and settings after a reset
<brobostigon> odd.
<foobarry> so i lost everything
<brobostigon> some things, android stores in your google account, but it isnt much.
<brobostigon> i would suggest you use something like titanium, which allows you to backup alot more.
<foobarry> yeah
<foobarry> thats a pain too
<brobostigon> its not storing/backup much?
<diddledan> payday. and it's all gone already
<diddledan> :-p
 * zmoylan-pi tips diddledan half a dinari...
<diddledan> \o/ I'm rich!"
<diddledan> btw, larry is on sale: http://www.gog.com/promo/weekend_promo_atari_codemasters_280815
<zmoylan-pi> i hope they kept the age check puzzles in lsl1.  you'd need to be 50 to know them now :-)
<diddledan> haha
<diddledan> those were funky - I guessed and still got-in
<zmoylan-pi> they were very american iirc
<diddledan> yeah
<daftykins> age check puzzles you say o0
<dangoo87> hi there, I have an issue with sound, I have managed to get teamspeak to play through headphones, but that seems to be the only program that does.  I can play everything else through my monitor speakers, but when I try and set it up for my headphones, nothing but teamspeak plays through it.
<dangoo87> Does anyone have any ideas?
<daftykins> your probably want to ask in the main #ubuntu - since that's the support channel proper
<dangoo87> hey dafty - it's supermanintights from the idiot who bought a skylake
<dangoo87> ok, I'll ask there as well
<dangoo87> how's it going, all good?
<daftykins> i think the key part is idiot to run ubuntu on it - not to buy new hardware :D
<daftykins> yeah nothing much going on here thanks, hrmm should probably go food shopping :(
<dangoo87> Well, turns out linux is the only option.  Windows doesn't have hardware support with skylake to run usb devices
<daftykins> 'run USB devices' that's definitely wrong
<daftykins> did you try and install 7 or something?
<dangoo87> so he has no CD/DVD drive, and it crashes if we try to install windows via usb
<dangoo87> yeah 7
<daftykins> there's a BIOS parameter you have to change to install 7
<daftykins> read up on it on the anandtech.com review
<dangoo87> granted, I wasn't around at the time, I trusted him to be able to install windows
<dangoo87> meh, I've invested far too many hours of my life into this, we're sticking with linux for now.  We're doing really well, occasional quirks, but everything is running beastly
<daftykins> ^_^
<daftykins> well it's useful to know regardless
<dangoo87> yeah, i think i had to do similar when i was messing around with win 7 and win 8
<dangoo87> so #ubuntu isn't really giving me much, do the ubuntu forums tend to be good for getting info, I've never really used them apart from on searches, and most tend to be quite old
<dangoo87> (the threads)
<daftykins> you have to be patient
<daftykins> yeah askubuntu.com and forums are valid approaches too
<daftykins> has someone had you use a newer mainline kernel at any point?
<dangoo87> we tried, and it crashed the system.  A guy named TJ helped him get back to 15.04 default I think it was where at least the computer works.
<daftykins> ah yeah
<daftykins> knowledgable fellow that one
<dangoo87> We did get the sound all working and stuff, but it's not liking switching between sound devices, and now I can't get anything but teamspeak to come through the headphones
<dangoo87> TJ was awesome, was able to help Dan get it all sorted on his own as I was at work at the time, so I had to come on later and thank him, as reading the logs he was really patient and gave brilliant info and advice, walked him through step by step.  Legend of a guy
<daftykins> it's a lot easier when the helpee is competent, some we get in #ubuntu - ugh
<dangoo87> haha i know the feeling
<daftykins> right i best commit to this food shopping idea
 * diddledan listens to the ubupodcast
<diddledan> mattermost sounds intriguing
<diddledan> shauno, is it time for winkelwagen?
<diddledan> :-o
<ali1234> is it possible to easily run firefox in a restricted cgroups environment yet?
<penguin42> ali1234: Good question, not sure; one person I was chatting to was suggesting just running it as a separate user
<ali1234> i want to limit CPU and RAM usage
<ali1234> i'm running dev edition with e10s and now instead of using 100% CPU it uses 400% CPU
<penguin42> RAM should be doable with ulimit
<ali1234> and several gigabytes
<ali1234> ulimit is a hard limit though
<ali1234> cgroups can limit physical memory but still allow the process to swap
<ali1234> or so i've been told
<penguin42> ali1234: rlimit_rss in getrusage so that should be a ulimit - 'specifies the limit in pages of the processes resident set'
<penguin42> yeh, ulimit -m
<ali1234> not an actual limit
<ali1234> "the system may give the process more memory when there is a surplus."
#ubuntu-uk 2015-08-29
 * diddledan yells "fifteen dot tens", smirks and sniggers.
<shauno> :(
<daftykins> o0
<diddledan> oh myy
<diddledan> n0rty!
<daftykins> what on earth are you up to diddledan :P
<diddledan> daftykins, winkelwagen
<shauno> he's been at the buck's fizz again
<penguin42> oh, don't worry about him, it's just his wily
<daftykins> ooh dear
<shauno> I wonder how many wily release parties will have restraining orders against him
<daftykins> given he wouldn't even go to Soton i sense they won't have to bother!
<diddledan> well isn't the whole point about releasing your wilys?
<shauno> lol, meow!
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOp4tRm-WbI
<m0nkey_> a-ha .. finally got my policy based routing working again. now I can watch the BBC again :)
<daftykins> like conditional VPN usage? what handles that?
<m0nkey_> yeah
<m0nkey_> so if a client wants to connect to the BBC, and I have that subnet in my policy group, it will send traffic over the UK vpn connection
<m0nkey_> otherwise it'll go out the wan as normal
<daftykins> nice, so how does it work? :D
<m0nkey_> it means modifying the routing table if the rule is matched
<daftykins> hmm
<daftykins> gonna be needing to achieve a similar thing for someones Spain place :)
<daftykins> i think a mate said pfsense is good for it though
<m0nkey_> well, the client says to the router, I want to connect to the BBC, the router then look up in it's table if it the subnet is known, if it is, the router modifies the routing table and sends it outbound NAT via the VPN interface.
<daftykins> though that may've been on a per device basis
<m0nkey_> yeah, pfsense can do it
<diddledan> can't you do that with static routing entries?
<daftykins> wouldn't that involve knowing the IPs of the services or some such?
<m0nkey_> that's what i was doing before, now i'm using EdgeOS, which is a variant of Vyatta
<m0nkey_> diddledan, i've still got to know the subnet of the target host
<m0nkey_> to determine if i want traffic to flow over the VPN interface
<diddledan> surely a static route table is going to be faster, though, no?
<m0nkey_> i just so happen to have collected most of the subnets in use by the BBC :)
<m0nkey_> diddledan, i could do a static route, but it's proven to be unreliable and if the VPN connection is down traffic is dropped
<diddledan> aah
<m0nkey_> with policy based, if the VPN is down the traffic flows over the WAN as normal
<daftykins> might any of this be why we've seen you hopping a lot? :)
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> yeah, bouncy m0nkey_
<m0nkey_> daftykins, heh.. because i've been messing with my router config
<daftykins> :)
 * m0nkey_ loves his Ubiquiti EdgeRouter
<m0nkey_> diddledan, you still running that routerboard?
<diddledan> yup
<mappps> hi all
<daftykins> lo
<m0nkey_> k im out
<m0nkey_> g'night all
<daftykins> o/
<mappps> out pff
<mappps> i just got back;)
<daftykins> ^_^
<mappps> ;]
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diddledan> mornin
<brobostigon> morning diddledan
<marxjohnson> I've got myself in a bit of a pickle. I had to move my boot and root partitions to a different drive for reasons I wont go into.  I've moved them and installed grub on the new drive, all booting no problem.  However, now when I boot, it says I have no network devices
<marxjohnson> Nothing in network manager, nothing in ifconfig except for loopback
<marxjohnson> I have a wireless card in the laptop and a USB ethernet device
<marxjohnson> can anyone suggest how I might get one or both of them working again?
<marxjohnson> aha, sorted
<marxjohnson> somehow /lib/modules had gone missing when I was running boot-rescue I think
<marxjohnson> copied it across from the old root partition and sorted.
<Azelphur> hey folks, what's the best way to edit a pdf?
<m0nkey_> Acrobat Professional
<penguin42> Azelphur: Try throwing it at a recent libreoffice; it now has a better than 50% chance of loading the pdf in a vaguely editable way
<DJones> I always thought the only way to edit a pdf was toprint it and use tippex before rescanning it :)
#ubuntu-uk 2015-08-30
<maps> morning
<daftykins> o/
<daftykins> nn \o
<maps> nn
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls
<moreati> I reported a bug on launchpad, it was marked Incomplete & requested more info, I've supplied more info. Should I change it from Incomplete? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/1488409? If so to what status?
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1488409 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "[MacbookPro11,2] Using external displays show corrupted, flickering images" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<moreati> Aha, the answer is yes https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Bug%20statuses#Frequently_Asked_Questions
<Azelphur> Hey folks, I have a USB IR receiver and remote that came with it, seems to be plug and play apart from a bunch of the buttons don't work. Any ideas?
<Azelphur> the receiver blinks an LED when it sees button presses, so hardware wise I assume it's working
<foobarry> anyone experienced problems with TWRP on android? sent my phone into a terminal bootloop after performing a nandroid backup
<Azelphur> foobarry: I've noticed it does strange things to the OS when you backup, are you looking to factory reset?
<foobarry> i was trying to backup
<foobarry> it killed the recovery partition and OS
<foobarry> had to format the whole storage and start from scratch again
<penguin42> foobarry: You're sure you've got the right TWRP for your exact device?
<foobarry> yes penguin42
<penguin42> hmm
<foobarry> after doing it twice, i switched to CWM and seems more stable
<shauno> Azelphur: tried using lirc?  I think irw should spit out stuff for each keypress, regardless of whether it's mapped to something
<penguin42> foobarry: I'm guessing it's just a bad or build for that device; sometimes the layout gets changed between versions of the firmware
<Azelphur> shauno: nah I haven't, just using the plug and play, guess I should go learn lircd
<shauno> it might be worth poking just to make sure events are being generated
<foobarry> basically destroyed my phone a few times in 2 days
<foobarry> now its OK i hope
<foobarry> couldn't wait any longer to get a newer adnroid as 5.0.2 was shocking
<shauno> (I haven't used the /dev/input stuff though, so I'm not sure what you'd do with them if you did find the events)
<penguin42> foobarry: What phone?
<foobarry> 7 seconds between switching apps
<foobarry> motog X1032
<penguin42> nod
<foobarry> 5.1.1 not out yet
<foobarry> although i may have jinxed it and will come out tomorrow now
<bujji> how can i add sd4 partition to sd5 here is my details https://bpaste.net/show/2a2ed32ec2b6
<bujji> hello o/
<Azelphur> I found this https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=140586 that block of code doesn't look too promising
<Azelphur> shauno: ^ :(
<shauno> bujji: you mean merge them?
<bujji> shauno: hm es
<penguin42> Azelphur: Wire shark can watch USB, so you can see if anything at all appears
<Azelphur> penguin42: I see many people with this problem, so we can assume not a hardware fault
<Azelphur> so stuff no doubt appears in wireshark :)
<shauno> hm, I'm not sure I can touch that one.  especially with one of them being ntfs.
<shauno> you need to backup all data off sda4, delete it, and the swap partition, then grow the extended part into the rest of the disk.  create a new swap at the end of the disk, then grow 4 into the slack
<shauno> but you will screw this up on the first three attempts and trash everything.  so lots of backups.  lots of backups.  so much backup that it's quicker just to repartition and start again.
<bujji> i took backup of sd4, so sd5 lso i have to take.
<shauno> well the thing is, the "easy" method is just to copy all the data somewhere safe, re-do your partitions, then copy it back again
<shauno> the "clever" way is so messy that you 100% need that backup anyway.  which is the first half of doing it the easy way
<bujji> entire data i have to copy and partition again?
<shauno> so it boils down to whether you actually want to make life easy for yourself
<shauno> you don't have to, but I think it's the least risky
<shauno> finish your backup, re-do your partitions, then go to bed while it copies back.
<bujji> any doc..
<shauno> the "clever" version isn't much quicker since you're trying to join ntfs+ext4, so you have to copy all of one anyway
<bujji> hmm,if it is added /   ?
<bujji> o/
<diddledan> ebenink
<penguin42> that's not a very good password is it
<diddledan> :-)
<shauno> I gotta admit, it's difficult not to channel your inner-diddledan when you read things like "Wily has changes in scripts/init-bottom coming"
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> my work here is done! :-D
<diddledan> that's an awesome combination of words, though!
<shauno> so you're finished now?
<diddledan> no
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> I'll never stop!
<diddledan> I feel it requires regular top-ups to maintain potency
<shauno> :(
<foobarry> http://fox5sandiego.com/2015/08/29/large-bug-scares-weather-reporter-on-live-tv/
<foobarry> lol
<diddledan> small drone?
<shauno> lol, welcome to faux news
<diddledan> shauno, is it really as bad as people make out?
<diddledan> I hear it's like "an airplane today was doing normal things. it reminded people of 9/11 and how dangerous OMG TERRORISM can be lourking everywhere"
<diddledan> lurking, too
<diddledan> (notice how I spelled aeroplane the american way to maintain accuracy :-p)
<shauno> to be fair, most of them are really as bad as people make out.  I lean heaviest on faux news because our boss used to put it on from 6 'till 9am every morning.
<diddledan> ouch
<shauno> this one's fantastic - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0IiVyFM4yo&t=415
<shauno> mostly because it's a perfectly serious finance segment.  american dude isn't actually trying to be a clown.
<diddledan> lmao
<diddledan> that's terrible
<shauno> I do realise the whole britain vs gb vs uk mess can be fun to explain.  but like .. 5 seconds of homework?
<shauno> I'm quite surprised the IDA guy didn't beat him to death with a rubber chicken.
<shauno> man, xbmc does *not* like it when you rename your fileserver
<diddledan> did you kill it?
<shauno> I just have to re-add everything
<directhex> shauno: he might not be trying, yet he's enormously successful!
<diddledan> :-)
<daftykins> shauno: Kodi! :P
<shauno> I don't believe there's a build for my aging 1st-gen appletv :(
<daftykins> ah i see
<daftykins> nah they've finally been murdered since Apple removed the required libs and what not (i am no dev ;) ) from the default install
<daftykins> was too much work for the guy that looks after them to keep going
<shauno> I think on the 1st-gen it's just an age issue  (the software image hasn't change in years)
<daftykins> ah ok
<daftykins> i dunno when it got murdered, maybe it's only the v2 that still works with 14.2
<shauno> it's a celeron M .. single-core, I think 800 or 900MHz.  with 256Mb.
<daftykins> in the bin :D
<shauno> haha, nah, it still does what I bought it for
<shauno> and it's difficult to find anything else htpc-ish for the price
<shauno> besides, it's pretty :)  the old ones look like a half-height mac mini, instead of the new black matchbox things
<daftykins> i quite like the Amazon FireTV i picked up for Â£50 when on sale
<daftykins> definitely more limited on android than a standard OS though
<shauno> yeah, that's android.  not doing that.
<shauno> if an advertising company wants to stick a black box on my network, they can pay me for it.
<daftykins> i was hoping to make my lounge one into a pretend squeezebox with addons in Kodi, but you have to pay for an app to do it for some reason
<daftykins> well mine runs Kodi :P
<daftykins> and amusingly i've used it to watch some of their own shows XD
<shauno> I'm really attached to the idea of something that runs a proper OS
<shauno> the first-gen appletv is still osx under the hood, so it's quite familiar.  otherwise something nice & tidy with linux on intel or arm would be fine too
<shauno> basically, if the intel nuc was half the price and the cases didn't look like pants
<daftykins> mmm my ASRock box is still pretty good, i just got annoyed with the fans. dual core Atom, 2GB RAM and ion1 for VDPAU offload handles HD nicely - SSD for speedy boot
<daftykins> haha yeah they're pretty poor
<shauno> I mean, that's basically what the appletv is.  what the nuc would be pre-core (but with optical+component audio, and $99)
<daftykins> component audio o0
<shauno> I'm a fan of being able to attach anything & everything to my amplifier :D
<daftykins> just not sure what that means. i have an AVR so i can make use of optical or the HDMI just fine
<daftykins> i don't own a device that can bitstream the lossless HD formats to it, but i don't really imagine it's as good as the dedicated folk tell me ^_^
<daftykins> especially on my little baby speaker set
<shauno> oh, I mean it still has phono sockets
<directhex> bedtime.
<shauno> handy because my amp only has two optical inputs, and since apple stick optical on pretty much everything, I tend to run out of them first
<daftykins> ah i see
<daftykins> you could get an ugly little switcher box ;)
<shauno> that'd be mesy :p
<daftykins> i remember when a mate had a little switcher that you just rotated a bit on to flick between optical inputs
<shauno> ooh, it's faster than I thought; 1GHz apparently
<shauno> and it seems it's having some problems with ipv6
<shauno> it has v6 addresses where the v6 addresses should be, and v6 addresses where the v4 addresses should be.  good thing I don't really use v4
<penguin42> shauno: The v4 address, it's not a v6 address starting ffff....
<penguin42> ?
<shauno> nope, it's the same as my global
<penguin42> fun
<shauno> Has IP Assigned: Yes
<shauno> IPv4 Addresses: 2001:0470:etcetc
<daftykins> haha
<shauno> my 10. don't appear anywhere
<shauno> oddly, ifconfig gets it right, but system_profiler doesn't
<diddledan> you know women have boob implants? are those silly cones?
<daftykins> that's a bad diddledan
<shauno> I know I'm way OT, but that's .. slapworthy
<daftykins> maybe that's why he wouldn't meet you up shauno, you'd have had so many in a backlog to dish out ;)
<shauno> I think he just didn't want to admit his ankle bracelet would alarm if he went that far from home
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> ooh, I'm a week out of date on dark matter
 * diddledan watches ep11
<shauno> wossat?
<diddledan> (from the twenty onest)
<diddledan> shauno, a fun scifi
<diddledan> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4159076/
<shauno> also, I'm now the proud owner of a usb floppy drive :D
<penguin42> shauno: Technology!
<diddledan> I'm the proud owner of a usb thingie that plugs into a floopy drive, does that count as awesome?
<shauno> totally technology.  I like to raid the recycling bins at work.
<diddledan> shauno, raided floppies!
<diddledan> shauno, RAID5
<shauno> lolno.
<penguin42> diddledan: Ooh, so you mean you could connect that to a 5.25 drive?
<diddledan> penguin42, yeah
<m0nkey_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHc288IPFzk
#ubuntu-uk 2016-08-29
<foobarry> http://www.fool.com/investing/2016/08/28/is-microsoft-corporations-one-windows-dream-dead.aspx
<foobarry> thoughts?
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<TwistedLucidity> You can have one application for all patforms in the same way you can have one engine for all vehicles. Yes, technically it can be done but most will suck.
<TwistedLucidity> You can, of course, have targeted applications use the same data/services.
<TwistedLucidity> Whilst I think MS's "one size fits all" policy was a serious mis-step on their part, the antics around the enforced upgrade to W10 were far, far worse. You see many complaints about that.
<TwistedLucidity> Just like W8 though, I don't think Windows is going anywhere.
<TwistedLucidity> s/applications/OS
<zmoylan-pi> windows has reached a 'it's too big to fail' point.  as crap as it is and as crap as ms make it a large group of users will have to put up with it as 1) ms won't sell the version they want (currently 7) 2) the apps they use day to day need it
<TwistedLucidity> With more and more things going back to the old server/client model, the hold Windows has is lessening. Even with gaming, you could stream that given decent enough bandwidth.
<TwistedLucidity> MS knows that, hence the whole BASH-on-Windows/PowerSmell-on-Linux thing.
<zmoylan-pi> and microsofts one windows dream died when they tried to make wince look exactly like windows on the desktop of that time.  there is mobile and there is not mobile.  making everything look like the version used in the other situation is the wrong way to do things
<TwistedLucidity> He who controls the service, controls the universe.
<zmoylan-pi> making mobile look like a desktop is bad as it's trying to cram a full ui onto a small screen badly, making the desktop look like mobile is... well it's windows 8... and we try to avoid profanity here... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> now trying to do the backend and have one app that will run everywhere is slightly worse as it makes bloated unoptimised binaries that will suck up the storagee, batterys and cpus of mobile systems and be irrelevent on desktop as a lot of apps are not meant to be run on mobile
<TwistedLucidity> The backend would live on the server, each application can be optimised for the platform and consume the same services (some of which might also have platform optimisations).
<foobarry> my nephew had a working laptop with w8 (what came on it when he bought it). w10 enforced install , now it suffers thermal shutdowns. i think the system management and drivers are not really optimised for the laptop any more
<zmoylan-pi> so if it makes you go out and buy a new laptop a win for the manufacturers
<zmoylan-pi> it's not really their fault that ms shoved a horrible upgrade down everyones throats when their back was turned
<foobarry> not a win for hp if you now think HP suck (they do)
<zmoylan-pi> ah now, hp sucked long before win10... :-P
<foobarry> so the boy bundled into the van was a hoax?
<foobarry> odd
<knightwise> Mornin peepz
 * penguin42 yawns
<diddledan> ello
<diddledan> anyone want a super awesome smart watch? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bluetooth-Smart-Watch-For-Android-HTC-Samsung-Sony-Camera-SIM-TF-Card-Slots-UK-/311682396139?_trkparms=%26rpp_cid%3D51e7270f5d9bcc4d8a85abad%26rpp_icid%3D51e725c45d9bcc4d8a85abab
<diddledan> super awesomely expensive
<knightwise> hey :)
<knightwise> Can anyone help me with writing a boot record to an xps13 ?
<diddledan> knightwise: if it's EFI you should be able to do it without messing with anything much
<knightwise> I think i deleted a little bit too much
<diddledan> knightwise: just copy grubx64.efi or shimx64.efi to bootx64.efi
<diddledan> aah
<diddledan> you can run grub-install /dev/<boot>
<knightwise> i'm repartationing the drive right now,
<knightwise> so i have 32gig /  andthe rest is /home
<knightwise> Can I create a 265 meg partition (ext4? ) and just install the bootloader in there ?
<knightwise> i have the option of putting it in /sda or /sda1
<popey> foobarry: get anywhere with the hudl2?
<diddledan> knightwise: no, it needs to be fat32 for EFI
<knightwise> ok , i can create a 265 meg fat partition and put it there
<knightwise> What mountpoint do i assign to it ? none ?
<diddledan> ideally you'd have an EFI partition at the beginning of your disk with either a /boot or a / which contains the boot readable by grub. the EFI part needs to be FAT32 and mounted at /boot/efi and contains a folder called EFI (upper-case)
<knightwise> wait , i can install the bootloader in / ?
<diddledan> no
<knightwise> ah
<diddledan> I meant that /boot or / (with boot inside) needs to be an additional partition after EFI
<knightwise> ok ,
<knightwise> so partionwise i have :
<knightwise> a 265 meg Fat32 partition (to which i have assigned the boodloader)
<diddledan> the EFI partition needs to be set to the right EFI-type
 * diddledan googles for that
<knightwise> Elementary doesnt give me te option to format a partition as efi
<popey> no, you format fat32
<knightwise> ok
<diddledan> in parted it can be set (from what I can see) by running the command (inside parted) "set boot on" for the relevant partition
<diddledan> (parted) set partition boot on
<knightwise> ah , i can try that , i can still boot with the live cd
<diddledan> from the source of all linux knowledge, arch wiki: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/GNU_Parted
<knightwise> Ah ! That did it :) Works now :) Thanx guys
<diddledan> \o/
<knightwise> purrrrrrrrdy :)
<foobarry> popey: i found 3 CVEs that are priv escalations
<foobarry> that affect 5.1
<foobarry> but found no public POC/exploits for them
<foobarry> modaco forum has stuff on teir forum where some guy has a guinea pig tablet and a special tool for copying the bios off the device
<foobarry> which could lead to disabling the signed bootloader in future.
<foobarry> i,e unifarium's post on http://www.modaco.com/forums/topic/375352-bootloader-unlocking/?page=3
<foobarry> also noticed you contributed to the elementary hack session, v generous of you. i did too, as its a good way to finance direct action (along with bug bounties)
<ali1234> what is the difference between Provides: and Replaces: in a debian package control?
 * penguin42 suspects it's something subtle to do with upgrading but I don't know
<penguin42> oh
<penguin42> ali1234: Provides:  I think lets a bunch of packages all match a requirement with no preference
<penguin42> ali1234: e.g. vi, vim, emacs, nano  would all Provide: editor
<ali1234> yeah
<penguin42> ali1234: it doesn't stop you installing all of them for example
<ali1234> i know what provides does
<ali1234> but i don't understand what replaces does
<diddledan> yeah provides is used for dependencies in one direction and replaces is the other I think
<ali1234> (different)
<ali1234> so this is my situation
<ali1234> i want to install gstreamer1.0-plugins-bad
<ali1234> unfortunately it depends on opencv which depends on all of X11
<penguin42> ali1234: I think replaces: is for when you need to get rid of the old one when the old one has a different name
<ali1234> so i am using equivs to make a dummy package which provides opencv
<diddledan> so many packages can "provide" a dependency but only one package can "replace" another
<ali1234> so far so good right?
<ali1234> but now what if i decide later that actually i do want opencv?
<ali1234> can i install it alongside my dummy package?
<ali1234> should my dummy package use provides: opencv or replaces: opencv
<penguin42> isn't there an explicit conflicts or something?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> but i don't want it to conflict
<penguin42> ali1234: how about a conflicts together with a provides ?
<ali1234> then i wont be able to install opencv later
<ali1234> the goal here is to prevent the dependency from being automatically installed
<ali1234> but still allow it to be manually installed
<penguin42> well it might I'm not sure, it would install opencv and deinstall yours?
<ali1234> hmm good point
<ali1234> but i dont want mine to be uninstalled because it provides a lot of other things
<ali1234> i have one big dummy package with "everything i don't want by default"
<penguin42> well that's wrong
<penguin42> you want a set of packages
<ali1234> hmm yeah you're right
<ali1234> i should have one for each thing which may or may not be installed
<ali1234> then if it conflicts and you manually install it, the dummy gets removed as you say
<penguin42> ali1234: Or one big kitchen sync that depends on your opencv?
<ali1234> that way if a group has multiple packages they will all get switched over correctly
<ali1234> the real situation is this:
<ali1234> i'm building a raspbian initramfs with debirf
<ali1234> so i have a size limit
<ali1234> gstreamer1.0-plugins-bad is needed for glimagesink which is needed for video playback without X
<penguin42> why does that depend on X?
<ali1234> it depends on opencv which depends on X11, libfluidsynth which depends on pulseaudio which depends on X11... and a bunch of other stuff
<penguin42> ewww
<ali1234> libfluidsynth also depends on a 40MB midi patch library
<ali1234> so needless to say i don't care about having those things installed
<ali1234> and there's a lot of them
<ali1234> about 150MB to be precises
<ali1234> there is also another problem
<ali1234> raspbian kernel isn't packaged the debian way. instead you get raspberrypi-kernel and raspberrypi-bootloader
<ali1234> bootloader is properietary and you MUST have it... but it depends on raspberrypi-kernel, not the other way around
<ali1234> and i want a custom kernel, not their one
<ali1234> so i need to equivs raspberrypi-kernel as well
<ali1234> but my build system that i've created has options... so you can pick either raspberrypi-kernel or custom kernel
<ali1234> then we hit another problem. debirf runs fakeroot so i can't run equivs from within the build system
<ali1234> so i have to build the equivs packages before running debirf, so i don't nkow what i am actually going to need
<ali1234> however i think making a separate package for each lump of crud i want to block, and possibly setting appropriate conflicts: will mean that my dummy package for eg raspberrypi-kernel would get removed iff user selects to install the real package
<ali1234> so basically, what you guys said
<ali1234> thanks :)
<ali1234> actually
<ali1234> it turns out that if you just set provides: and don't set conflicts: then you can install the real package side by side
<ali1234> that works for the kernel
<ali1234> however it doesn't work for opencv because it is multiple packages, and if i install one the others won't get pulled in
<ali1234> this would work much better if i could run equivs inside debirf but i can't because they both use fakeroot
<popey> foobarry: oh, didn't realise my name was public on that
 * zmoylan-pi shakes fist at 2016... gene wilder dead... 
<penguin42> nod :-(
<popey> oh no :(
 * zmoylan-pi copies blazing saddles to media player and promises self not to laugh at beans and camp fire scene knowing that i will...
<popey> :)
#ubuntu-uk 2016-08-30
<mapps> hooray the strain is back
<knightwise> Started watching "Halt and catch fire" yesterday
<knightwise> also a very good show
<diddledan> knightwise: it's awesome!
<diddledan> I want a third season .. been waiting for that too long :-p
<diddledan> I love it because it shows me a romantic view of the 80s
<diddledan> it's my generation's version of "heartbeat" (uk show)
<diddledan> heartbeat is a 60s drama thingy
<diddledan> my dad watches that for all the old motorbikes and the soundtrack
<knightwise> Love it , just like Stranger things
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<christel> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning christel
<christel> how are you keeping up? :)
<brobostigon> some days better than othrs, and you?
<knightwise> morning everyone
<brobostigon> morning knightwise
<MooDoo> hello all
<MooDoo> I've just seen someone abusing channel topics and notice that there are a couple of ubuntu channels susceptable to it, whos the best people to speak too?  any one know?
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> hi brobostigon just seen someone abusing channel topics :( - To find big channels with unlocked topics, use /msg alis list * -min 100 -mode -t    Then you can join them and abuse their /topic for the lulz!
<brobostigon> ah,
<popey> MooDoo: #ubuntu-ops
<diddledan> alis? who the beep is alis?!
<popey> but sorted now i see
<MooDoo> ok thanks
<foobarry> surprised i remembered my password after 3 weeks off out of the last 4
<popey> foobarry: what would you put on a hudl2 if you did root it? Would you try and build a newer android image for it?
<diddledan> poor simba http://38.media.tumblr.com/6df5824591f6c6f76ea952e69610be2f/tumblr_n489r3sout1sqdbk4o1_400.gif
<foobarry> popey: the priority would be to tweak a couple of things that require root (e.g. the aforementioned loud BONGGG when it is started up, plus adblocker).
<foobarry> as time goes on and 5.1 becomes more insecure, i would have to consider a newer build
<foobarry> i use the tablet a lot for watching video as the screen is lovely and a nice form factor for watching
<foobarry> i used to have root on 4.4.4 but got lost after the 5.1 update when they also locked/signed the bootloader. a strange move.
<foobarry> maybe the best thing is a lobying campaign for tesco to release the keys
<foobarry> to allow community to continue using the tablet securely
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: I am now forced to think up new passwords on a schedule. So they've gone from long & secure to short & simple.
<diddledan> TwistedLucidity: qwerty1234
<popey> foobarry: i hate having to navigate modaco to find out the latest state
<foobarry> s/modaco/forums/
<foobarry> i am subscribed on a couple of topics
<foobarry> but who knows the best one.
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan: More like Fred1, 2Fred, Fred3. By-passes the whole "this password is too similar" thing and means I have a hope of remembering.
<foobarry> it seems people are a bit stuck atm
<foobarry> i even thoguht of contacting some ex tesco android guys who can be found via linked in
<popey> if they're community people, might be worth doing
<foobarry> it is tesco's ethical duty to allow the community to use the tablets if they aren't supporting it anymore
<diddledan> threewordsuppercase <-- one word lowercase
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Not really. It's your duty to recycle and buy a new one. Think of the starving shareholders!
 * TwistedLucidity actually agrees with you
<foobarry> correcthorsebatterystaple
<diddledan> thank goodness the horse battery staple is correct!
<diddledan> I'd hate an incorrect one
<TwistedLucidity> Oh yeah, that's what I *used* to use. Something comedic and long. But now? Every ~45 days? Sod that.
<diddledan> although I'm not sure the RSPCA would approve of horse-battery
<foobarry> https://xkcd.com/936/
<TwistedLucidity> Why not? As a beast of burden they are an energy store.
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Schnier had a few addenda about that. For starters "CorrectHorseBatteryStaple" is not a safe password.
<foobarry> schneier the windows user?
<TwistedLucidity> Is he? Dunno.
<TwistedLucidity> https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2014/03/choosing_secure_1.html
<TwistedLucidity> Back to the Kindle - how would releasing code/docs/specs benefit Tesco? Allowing a community to maintain older models will hurt future sales. Or are you thinking that the "benefit" would be the avoidance of bad PR?
<foobarry> kindle or hudl?
<TwistedLucidity> Meant to say "Hudl", my bad.
<foobarry> tesco are no longer in the tablet market
<TwistedLucidity> Oh, in that case...
<TwistedLucidity> ...err...
<TwistedLucidity> yeah.
<TwistedLucidity> I wonder if they even have that info though.
<foobarry> well they fired all the android devs just after they rushed out a 5.1 update and dropped the tablet
<foobarry> unsure if they are under NDA
<foobarry> but the information will be there
<TwistedLucidity> Ah, they directly employed? I had always assumed it was just some generic thing in a different case.
<foobarry> its a pegatron tablet, although pegatron never release this spec
<foobarry> its an excellent tablet with hdmi out and micro SD etc
<diddledan> ho boy: https://9to5mac.com/2016/08/30/eu-regulators-order-ireland-to-recover-13-billion-euros-in-illegal-irish-tax-benefits-from-apple/?pushup=1
<foobarry> excellent except for one thing ; intel chips
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan: Where's the popcorn?
<TwistedLucidity> And will that ruling just affect Apple, or will it set a precedent for Google etc?
<foobarry> this is what the EU is good at
<foobarry> hitting big corp with big bills
<foobarry> although where the money ends up is anyones guess
<foobarry> like the 500M from MS
<foobarry> https://www.reddit.com/r/security/comments/4vs90j/bruce_schneier_ama_live_here_from_13_pm_est/d618oxo
<foobarry> he is blinkered/mad if he thinks windows is most secure
<TwistedLucidity> Or he just wants to get work done.
 * TwistedLucidity has one *just* managed to fix screen tearing. Maybe.
<TwistedLucidity> And, of course, just because he's wrong on one thing doesn't mean he's wrong on everything.
<foobarry> if he was giving opinion on an area outside his field of expertise maybe
<foobarry> but i tend to take everything he says with a massive pinch
<popey> you take everything everyone says with a massive pinch though, surely?
<foobarry> probably although people with good track record i might be more accomodating
<foobarry> or less scrutinous
<foobarry> i wouldn't ask linus torvalds what laptop he uses or what DE he likes because its irrelevant. quite a lot of G+ i see people asking these things
<foobarry> but i respect he and greg KH when they talk about the kernel and take their word for it
<foobarry> crypto is another thing you have to usually take their word for as its so complex
<foobarry> not theirs, but crypto specialists
<TwistedLucidity> I view crypto like I view quantum mechanics. If you think you understand it....
<foobarry> i have however read the scheier article you linked
<foobarry> i might run a recent cracker over my hashes
<foobarry> interested to see how quikcly correcthorsebatterystaple gets pwned
<TwistedLucidity> hutner2 4 evah!
<TwistedLucidity> What always amuses me are error messages like "Your password cannot be over 12 characters or contain special symbols" Uhh...whut?
<popey> The Google Play services 'app' in the play store has over 1 billion installs.
<popey> Quite boggling
<ali1234> given that you literally can't install anything else without it
<popey> yeah, just the number of devices with that one codebase on is staggering
<ali1234> there's only about 1 billion android phones in existence
<popey> "only" :)
<ali1234> of course there's also lots of other things running android
<popey> 1.6Bn in 2014 according to some stats
<zmoylan-pi> how many of those are sitting in drawers replaced by shinier newer devices
<diddledan> shiny sounds like a plan
<diddledan> shuddupandtakemymoney
<TwistedLucidity> Sub-5" with a 180p OLED screen + decent RAM & CPU + decent battery? That'd be "shuddupandtakemymoney" for me.
<TwistedLucidity> Instead everything semi-decent is 5.5" or bigger and thin (so poor battery)
<diddledan> 180p?
<diddledan> I kinda want USB-C
<diddledan> for the charge-port and data
<zmoylan-pi> and time saving not attempting 3 tries to plug it in...
<diddledan> micro-USB is evil. not only do you have orientation issues but if you're slightly off-axis it still won't go into the hole even if you have it the right way around
<zmoylan-pi> bring back docking stations and cradles like palm had
<diddledan> the lightning connector that apple uses is actually very resilient
<diddledan> we've got announcements on the 7th from apple
<diddledan> next weds I think
 * diddledan checks calendar
<diddledan> yup weds
<zmoylan-pi> apple watch 2... this time they mean it...
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan: 1080p
<TwistedLucidity> Nah, it'll be a digital cap with Siri saying "Any spare change, pal?"
<zmoylan-pi> that to sort their tax woes they're buying switzerland... and releasing the itoblerone
<diddledan> ooh. that sounds tasty
<zmoylan-pi> comes in white of course
<DJones> Apples announcement will probably be that "Today is 7th September"
<zmoylan-pi> ...have you charged your iphone 2-3 times today...
<TwistedLucidity> What ever it is, it'll be new, exciting, innovative and never-been-done-before. Apart from the fact it's none of those things.
<zmoylan-pi> and comes in these exciting colours
<TwistedLucidity> If they announce "The first phone with real desktop convergence" I'm sure we'll all her popey's screams! :-)
<zmoylan-pi> nokia communicators will spin in their drawers...
<diddledan> TwistedLucidity: and many fanboys saying it's the second coming
<zmoylan-pi> more likely a phablet with a slide out small phone for making actual calls
<popey> haha
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: that would not be such a bad idea actually
<knightwise> I'm starting to look towards a solution where I have a simple phone with a long battery life and shove all the connected stuff onto a a 3g tablet with a large battery
<popey> i just carry an additional battery and charger everywhere
<knightwise> popey: as long as you can still swap out batteries
 * knightwise has an Samsung S6
<zmoylan-pi> i have seen in dublin bt mini phones that connect to your main phone... AND have spot for a sim in case you lose your main phone...
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: sounds bizar right ?
<zmoylan-pi> one way it pretends to be a bt headset... the other it just switches on it's gsm phone
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: its an original approach to the project
<knightwise> probem
<knightwise> I would get a tablet .. and one of these http://shop.startrek.com/star-trek-the-original-series-communicator-bluetooth-handset/detail.php?p=866906
<popey> knightwise: I've yet to have a phone that the battery couldn't be removed from
<popey> might need a screwdriver, but it's not *that* hard in most phones
<knightwise> popey: Agree. But with the convergence of pc's and tablets coming into play it might be a new era for the mobile phone industry
<zmoylan-pi> these are one of the ones i saw... http://www.chinabuye.com/daxian-bm50-mini-ear-hook-mini-bt-phone-black-white
<zmoylan-pi> about the size of your little finger
<popey> nobody every phones me and i never phone anyone
<popey> i could probably get away with a data-only phone
<knightwise> https://cdn3.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/wk98uKbm8BJi4nBn3YB2wSGbqBk=/0x4:350x237/1280x854/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/47632113/zoolander-tiny-phone.0.0.jpg
<zmoylan-pi> i have thought of bringing my phones to repair place and have them disable microphone for privacy guarantee
<knightwise> Wish I could but ... i have a business so .. calls are still pretty important
<knightwise> One of these .. https://www.amazon.com/Jumbl-Bluetooth-Hands-Free-Streaming-Receiver/dp/B00UUDZLB0/ref=sr_1_17?ie=UTF8&qid=1472563811&sr=8-17&keywords=bluetooth+receiver  A pair of earbuds and a Tablet
<zmoylan-pi> i have a sony bt headphones with a mic.  that could do the voice calls nicely
<foobarry> i considered the Â£5 giffgaff data only sim
<foobarry> and calls/texts on PAYG
<zmoylan-pi> data only and voip?
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Wouldn't 3 be cheaper?
<foobarry> TwistedLucidity: whats the cheapest 3 deal?
<TwistedLucidity> I joined giffgaff and the found out 3 were about 1/2 price for charges.
<TwistedLucidity> Not actually sure of their lowest monthly teir
<TwistedLucidity> Which seems to be offset by the cheapest plan being Â£9. :-S
<foobarry> giffgaff do Â£5, Â£7.50 deals
<foobarry> i'm on the monthly 7.50 one
<TwistedLucidity> Snap
<foobarry> i don't think 3 are cheaper
<TwistedLucidity> The per min/gb are I think
<TwistedLucidity> At least, they were when I checked
<TwistedLucidity> Odd thing, by giffgaff sim keep registering as o2 (I know it's their network).
<foobarry> i don't use any PAYG data or voice atm.
<TwistedLucidity> I try not to
<foobarry> its all within my monthly limit
<diddledan_> ipads better than drugs: http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2016/08/ipads-subdue-kids-as-well-as-hard-drugs/
<foobarry> comments below the line on the xkcd password efficacy are still supportive of it https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2014/03/choosing_secure_1.html
<foobarry> i remember when solaris didn't care what you typed after the 8th character
<foobarry> not that long ago!
<foobarry> i would be logging into a solaris server, get the user to type the 9th character then do some super fast typing of 9-20
<foobarry> they would be amazed that they guessed the right character
<foobarry> !ping
<lubotu3> pong!
<diddledan_> !ding
<lubotu3> dong
<foobarry> !bing
<lubotu3> ban
<foobarry> oof. harsh
<diddledan_> !sing
<diddledan_> bah
<foobarry> bing bong
<diddledan_> !ring
<diddledan_> I cried when bingbong died
<diddledan_> that was totes sadness
<diddledan> 2016 got gene wilder, too?!
<diddledan> ffs
<diddledan> this year is the worst!
<penguin42> although deathlist.net doesn't seem to be doing that well
<diddledan> gonna be gutted when marvel movies no-longer have cameos from stan lee
<zmoylan-pi> someone suggested that all the following movies have the heros mention attending a funeral of walk on characters all turning up at same funeral...
<zmoylan-pi> or they could just cgi him in any old way
<penguin42> how odd
<penguin42> I've just randomly found a site comparing different countries and it has a list of UK table manners
<penguin42>  'Do not slurp when eating soup' (sane but odd to specify)
<penguin42>  'Smash up your peas using your fork' ?!!!
<zmoylan-pi> in some countries making noises seems to be the polite thing to do...
<funkyHat> penguin42: I've never smashed my peas or seen anyone else doing that
<funkyHat> Maybe I'm not posh enough
<penguin42> funkyHat: same here
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
#ubuntu-uk 2016-08-31
<mapps> hi:D
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diplo> Morning all
<BigRedS> hello!
<foobarry> not getting hangouts notifications since moving to cm13. any suggestions? i have checked notifications and also mobile data settings
<foobarry> just cleared a load of stuff and will wait for new message
<popey> odd, i get them on cm13
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: If it's important, they'll call you. :-)
<foobarry> omgubuntu mentioned a tool called peek to record a selection of your screen as a gif, really nifty
<foobarry> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/08/peek-desktop-gif-screen-recorder-linux
<awilkins> Hey there
<BigRedS> Goooood Morning!
<awilkins> Thunderbird with integrated Lightning - does the packaged version installed by default have Lightning?
<foobarry> on its a plugin
<foobarry> on=no
<awilkins> I installed it and got a popup saying that Lightning was integrated with Thunderbird now (I understand they package it in the default downloadable install)
<awilkins> With keep / disable / remove buttons
<foobarry> oh, which linux distro/version?
<awilkins> 16.04 / tbird 45
<foobarry> oh i'm on 38.6
<awilkins> But I can't find any of the calender UI now I removed the plugin
<awilkins> So I'm guessing it's just a silly notifier popup
<foobarry> ctrl-shift-c
<awilkins> Ok, that doesn't work after I remove Lightning add on
<awilkins> So I guess "integrated" means "bundled" and the Debian package hasn't bundled it
<awilkins> But I'm getting the "This item has been recently updated on the server ... " infinite loop bug
<awilkins> Which makes the calendar plugin a bit pointless
<BigRedS> I've never really got the lightning plugin to work; calendar's another thing that's basically best-done in the browser now I think
<awilkins> It works quite nicely with Outlook over EWS now (Hooray for Erikkson)
<awilkins> And I've not had trouble with the Google calendar plugin before
<awilkins> Deleted the event via the web UI
<awilkins> Constant bleating has stopped
<foobarry> watching https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmBSh1FGQyY instead of buying the good boss, bad boss book
<TwistedLucidity> On 45 here, guess I didn't notice Lightning coming in by default; I always install it anyway
<foobarry> i find 1hr talks are better than wading thru a long book contain 5 points
<Safiyyah> Hi guys,  my system died at the recent automatic upgrade and I am now inclined to ubuntu mate
<Safiyyah> Linux mint is also seeming likea viable stable option.
<Safiyyah> I also have a laptop which I bought a few months ago and that too has slowed down (blame bulky windows)  but it is nice to see that I still hate windows.  Despite their upgrades.  For the laptop I am inclined towards solydk or Linux mint I appreciate your experience and opinions as always.
<Safiyyah> Is anyone here?
<TwistedLucidity> I like Kubuntu, but you need to install Kubuntu Backports PPA to get stability.
<TwistedLucidity> Each to their own.
<Safiyyah> I had xubuntu for the last two years
<Safiyyah> I don't like fiddly bits,  that was what scared me about kubuntu
<popey> i like ubuntu mate :)
<popey> mate is nice and familiar
<Safiyyah> Its going back to 6 years ago when things were nice
<diddledan> for the australians there should be an Ubuntu Sport as well as Mate
<diddledan> and for us brits an Ubuntu Buddy
<TwistedLucidity> Needs a Scottish version, Ubuntu Pal
<diddledan> and a Mr Robot: Ubuntu Friend
<Safiyyah> TwistedLucidity.  I was thinking about solyk for my laptop because I like alot of the kde apps
<TwistedLucidity> Never used it.
<Safiyyah> Okidok.
<TwistedLucidity> If you like KDE, consider Neon (User edition)
<diddledan> and one for my brother: Ubuntu MeOldMucker
<Safiyyah> Popey does mate have the apps connected like amazon etc?
<Safiyyah> I didn't want to see anything that resembles unity for the rest of my life
<popey> O_O
<popey> uh, no
<TwistedLucidity> I thought the whole Amazon thing was over, no?
<popey> yes
<diddledan> I had no issue with the Amazon tie-in
<popey> it was massively blown out of proportion
<popey> but shouldn't have been landed when it did IMO
<diddledan> Canonical is a commercial company and they need to find _some way_ to generate revenue to survive
<TwistedLucidity> It was an interesting idea, but it made me uneasy the way it was done. I guess /some kind/ of web shoppery app would be good; tieing into Canoncial or no.
<diddledan> afaict the amazon stuff was heavily anonymised
<popey> we tried
<popey> it failed
<popey> meh
<Safiyyah> Okay but no unity like stuff.
<Safiyyah> I didn't liks unity at all
<TwistedLucidity> If you don't like Unity, avoid GNOME.
<popey> MATE is nothing like Unity
<popey> it has a nice feature that you can make it look like any other desktop
<diddledan> Gnome is alien to me now
<popey> which is pretty neat.
<TwistedLucidity> Well, I guess it depends on /what/ you don't like about Unity.
<Safiyyah> Okay the bomb is my laptop also has a touch screen.
<popey> I use MATE on a Thinkpad X61s and it flies along nicely
<TwistedLucidity> In that case, a more touch-friendly DE like Unity might not be a bad idea.
<TwistedLucidity> I used Unity when demoing stuff - it works rather well.
<Safiyyah> I can tolerate gnome fairly well.  Unity is....  Welll like windows in a different layout
<TwistedLucidity> I think you mean "Windows is like Unity" :-)
<Safiyyah> Okay popey am sold on mate for thw desktop
<TwistedLucidity> Don't like it? Just install another. That's what's great about F/OSS
 * diddledan FLOSSes his teeth
<Safiyyah> Help with the laptop please.  Solydk or mint,  bear in mind there js a touch screen to configure later
<Safiyyah> TwistedLucidity I like to get rhe system going and nit have to think about it again for a couple of years.  Sorry
<TwistedLucidity> Do you intend to use the touch screen?
<Safiyyah> I only come  here when my computer decides to die.  Like now.  I am not a fashionable distribution tryer or whatever the hype distro people are called.
<Safiyyah> Yes as a mouse.  To click etc
<TwistedLucidity> I have never used Mate of KDE on a touch device. I know KDE is looking at/improving touch support but that is all.
<TwistedLucidity> Ho hum
<Safiyyah> I got disconnected
<Safiyyah> Sorry about the touch screen
<Safiyyah> I was trying to get your advise
<Safiyyah> Advice*
<popey> not many linux desktops work well with a touch screen
<popey> most were designed before touch screens were commonplace on desktop/laptop computers
<Safiyyah> Okay
<Safiyyah> So that is something I will have to fiddle with at a later
<Safiyyah> No worries
<Safiyyah> I will be back when I get stuck with the install
<Safiyyah> Thanks so much
<popey> no problem
<Safiyyah> Y
<foobarry> wow. dropbox, douchebox
<foobarry> didn't mention passwords were taken. also the email they sent was a bit fuzzy. "yeah you haven't changed your password in ages, why not try now?"
<BigRedS> https://www.troyhunt.com/the-dropbox-hack-is-real/ ?
<foobarry> "The attack took place during 2012. At the time Dropbox reported a collection of userâs email addresses had been stolen. It did not report that passwords had been stolen as well."
<diplo> Going for my first real / proper interview tomorrow since starting to work 20+ years ago, Devops Engineer - Any tips guys ? I've read up on the company and job spec, anything else that's normally asked.
<penguin42> diplo: They might ask you to code/solve a problem
<foobarry> they might ask you what devops is
<foobarry> and what you understand by automation
<penguin42> that would be cruel
<diplo> They Sorry the phone went as soon as I typed that out
<diplo> They've defined what devops is for them in the job spec
<popey> They may ask you for your own war stories, problems you've overcome, conflicts you've resolved, money you've saved. Basically Achievements you've unlocked.
<diplo> It doesn't appear to be any coding/problem solving according to the key points
<foobarry> whats yr favourite config mgmt system and why
<diplo> Yeah, I've been working on them
<diplo> They use puppet/chef etc, I use ansible.. better have  a read up on that too :)
<foobarry> probably no time to deploy a test system
<foobarry> also version control
<foobarry> some git commands
<penguin42> maybe some networking type questions?
<diplo> I'll find out someone from there is in here now
<diplo> They run ubuntu/debian :)
<foobarry> i use puppet and github all the time but wouldn't be confident in a true devops engineer job. fortunately a lot of those job titles are just trendy names for sysadmins
<diplo> https://www.actual-experience.com/jobs/devops-engineer/
<diplo> Is the job
<zmoylan-pi> fingers crossed your interview goes well
<diplo> ta fanx, don't get nervous about much but this seems to be making me :P
<penguin42> what a mix of programming languages; python, erlang, bash, perl, javascript
<penguin42> I forget which ones use Erlang
<diplo> Whatever happens, it's a notch for experience on interviews if anything
<diplo> I do them all apart from erlang, heard of it, but never coded in it before
<foobarry> essentials are a bit broad
<foobarry> they expect an expert in docker, openstack and vmware?
<foobarry> in my experience you are one of those, not all
<zmoylan-pi> at newbie rates of course... :-)
<foobarry> oh and programming languages
<diplo> Most job specs are broad like that too
<diplo> I've found
<foobarry> its not helpful
<foobarry> either they want sysad, programmer, or devops guy
<diplo> It's not at all, but in the spec I got sent instead of the website, they aren't looking for a specialist in all, but as long as your know docker is not a tupperware dish we're onto a good start
<foobarry> maybe they will choose someone they like chatting with
<diplo> From the thing the recruitment person sent through, it appears it maybe a fair bit of getting to know and a feel of the person, maybe someone they can work with and ply to their ways :)
<foobarry> unzipped a massive 7z file with "e" instead of "x"
<foobarry> :'(
<foobarry> no folder structure
<zmoylan-pi> geek world problems...
<diddledan> https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2016/08/31/runaway-teen-hops-on-facebook-to-ask-police-to-use-nicer-mugshot/
<zmoylan-pi> they should have photoshopped the new pic ugly and used it
<popey> or asked fb / isp for the details of where she connected from
<zmoylan-pi> i think she's been picked up since
<Safiyyah> I decided to install Linux mate.  However after a successful installation it tells me there is no boot loader.  I put the swap partition as well
<Safiyyah> No idea what I have done wrong
<penguin42> Safiyyah: Did you manually parititon or just let it do it's own thing?
<popey> tsk tsk
<popey> :)
<Safiyyah> Manually
<Safiyyah> I was also getting rid of the windows partitions
<Safiyyah> Shall I run the installation again?
<Safiyyah> I left the efi windows boot loader and did the swap,  root,  home and storage areas and had some free space left
<Safiyyah> Well the good news is my touch screen was working during the installation
<Safiyyah> And on the try out
<penguin42> Safiyyah: Try an automatic installation
<Safiyyah> Okay
<Safiyyah> Running one now
<Safiyyah> It still says no bootable device even after a fresh install
<popey> maybe go to the mint support channel?
<Safiyyah> I installed ubuntu mate
<Safiyyah> Not mint
<popey> oh, you said "Linux mate" which I assumed you meant linux mint :)
<popey> sorry.
<Safiyyah> Oh sorry
<popey> is this a desktop or laptop?
<Safiyyah> Laptop
<popey> did you install off a usb key or something?
<Safiyyah> I am yet to touglch the desktop
<Safiyyah> Yes usb
<Safiyyah> I changed the boot order to the hdd first as well
<popey> which version of ubuntu mate?
<popey> where'd you get the ISO?
<Safiyyah> 16.04
<Safiyyah> Ubuntu mate website
<popey> ok
<popey> what happens when you try to boot the laptop?
<Safiyyah> It says no bootable device
<Safiyyah> I think it has no boot loader
<popey> what was on it previously?
<Safiyyah> Windows
<Safiyyah> 10 or 11
<popey> so this is a relatively new laptop?
<Safiyyah> Yep new this april
<popey> I wonder if this is a secure boot thing
<penguin42> Safiyyah: Make/Model?
<Safiyyah> Might be,  I didn't request to turn it off
<Safiyyah> Acer aspire r3
<penguin42> Safiyyah: Do you have the full model, apparently the r3 has been going for years
<popey> probably on a sticker underneath
<Safiyyah> N15W5
<Safiyyah> That is the model number
<penguin42> thanks
<Safiyyah> I know I have 4gd ram ang 500gb storage
 * penguin42 sees someone seems to have had mint running on it; so if that works a straight Ubuntu probably should
<popey> I expect you may need to do some fiddling in the BIOS/EFI thing
<Safiyyah> I never installed mint
<popey> I haven't had any machines like this so can't really help there
<Safiyyah> I got it from the shop with Windows
<Safiyyah> It became a slow snail after a windows update
<Safiyyah> Decided to leave windows alone
<Safiyyah> I put ubuntu mate
<Safiyyah> And now it is not happy
<awilkins> Secure Boot works in my experience
<awilkins> Although I've had to disable it for unsigned drivers (VirtualBox kernel driver)
<awilkins> In general the installer will install you up in the mode you were when you booted, and EFI works too
<awilkins> Is it a RAID thing?
<awilkins> If the Windows install was on RST / RAID mode, I've had to disable RAID mode to get Ubuntu to install
<awilkins> But conceivably it could be a RAID thing that the LiveUSB supports for install but grub can't boot??!?
<Safiyyah> I am in the bios and it has secure boot mode as standard
<Safiyyah> The only thing it is asking me to do is to set the password,  I can't change anything else,  just see the status
<Safiyyah> The section which says 'select an uefi file as trusted fpr executing is disabled
<Safiyyah> I cannot change it.  Sorry about the typos am using the phone
<Safiyyah> Hmm i think this is part of raid,  nothing to do with Windows
<Safiyyah> I keep being disconnected if I leave the window
<Safiyyah> Does anyone know what to do about the secure boot thing?
<foobarry> shame there isn't a geek equivalent of bakeoff
<foobarry> build a computer , write an app, fix a broken tablet
<zmoylan-pi> i miss the great egg race with heinz wolff
<foobarry> build an airfix kit
<foobarry> the great british hack off
<zmoylan-pi> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Egg_Race
<penguin42> that was good
<penguin42> Scrap yard was I guess the mech-head equivalent
<zmoylan-pi> a computer based one would be... difficult as the potential audience would be so small... unless you aim it at an online market
<zmoylan-pi> there is robot wars currently but that's more about the performance and control than the design
<zmoylan-pi> i must have upset ubot... all those poor bots... :-P
<popey> Just watched the Robot Wars final. Sam loved it
<foobarry> i'm a week behind. just watched the 5thepisode
<foobarry> great porogramme . my wife likes it too
<foobarry> its quite popular with some non geek women i know
<foobarry> actually my wife is geekier than me, just in different ways
<daftykins> hey folks \o
<penguin42> hey
<diddledan> hi de ho
<daftykins> i've been away in the land of "oh you're going away for 3 weeks? suddenly we have lots of last minute work for you..." and also tonnes of Deus Ex play ;D
<zmoylan-pi> you're repelling down k2? can you just dial in and reboot server x?
<daftykins> :D
<safiyyah> Hi
<daftykins> lo
<daftykins> what's broken this time? ;)
<AndChat|326081> I installed ubuntu mate on
<AndChat|326081> A laptop  today which had windows it had secure boot
<AndChat|326081> No matter how many installations I run it still tells me there is no bootable device
<daftykins> mmm sounds like the usual challenges - the best bet is to check the BIOS for any options to disable secure boot, or enable "legacy" / "CSM"
<daftykins> if it's that cheap thing you bought then it'll likely be a challenge as i predicted at the time to get going
<AndChat|326081> Lol
<daftykins> best thing you could do is upload a picture of each BIOS page to imgur.com and link it here
<AndChat|326081> Okay am here now I  changed to legacy  and no joy am I supposed
<AndChat|326081> I am just taking the pics
<daftykins> it'll need reinstalling in legacy mode - you'll have to boot the USB flash drive as legacy, too
<daftykins> !legacy
<daftykins> !efi
<lubotu3> UEFI is a specification that defines a software interface between an operating system and platform firmware. It is meant as a replacement for the BIOS. For information on how to set up and install Ubuntu and its derivatives on UEFI machines please read https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UEFI
<AndChat|326081> Okay daftykins,  changed to legacy,  doing a clean install again
<daftykins> make sure to boot the media in legacy mode, the above link shows how to tell the difference
<daftykins> essentially white text menu on black background = EFI, purple image with logo bottom centre = legacy
<StevenR> hmm. What starts all my qemu vms?
<StevenR> ah ha. found.
<zmoylan-pi> right, crisis averted, discovered i was down to just 5 tea bags left...
<diddledan> politics: surely if the eu commission thinks that ireland broke the law with it's tax affairs with apple, then it should be ireland who have to pay the fine, not apple?
<zmoylan-pi> the irish people can pay â¬14b no problemo.  of course we might need a few new ministers after a few are lynched...
<zmoylan-pi> the hq of one of the parties involved... https://twitter.com/DaithiHealy/status/771002327167799296/photo/1
<zmoylan-pi> and they have already changed the laws so the loopholes all the american companies that have european hqs in ireland (ms, amazon, ibm, apple, facebook etc.) will probably be gone in 2020 when it's shut
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> I wonder where they'll go
<zmoylan-pi> wherever their accountants will tell them they can save money
<diddledan> it's bad news for the Irish economy though :-(
<zmoylan-pi> it will hurt.  but if the only thing keeping them here was a scam for them then it had to be broken
<zmoylan-pi> ireland is the hq of apple, yet has no apple stores
<zmoylan-pi> nearest one is in belfast which is the uk
 * daftykins swaps all those apples for spuds
<diddledan> I've got an apple store in my town
<diddledan> POTATO!
<zmoylan-pi> and we seem to already have swapped american companies using us for tax convenience to air leasing companies using us as a flag of convenience for leasing planes...
<diddledan> potato said as an exclamation by an irish accented person is fun
<diddledan> just randomly pipe-up "potato"
<daftykins> i think we'd have sustained a few injuries to the head by now if we were over there though
<daftykins> saying these things
<zmoylan-pi> of 20,000 large planes flying at any time on the planet, 8000 are leased and half of those are leased out of ireland... http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/its-boom-time-for-aircraft-leasing-in-ireland-30319106.html
<diddledan> wow
<diddledan> that's an impressive stock of rentals
<zmoylan-pi> it came a bit of suprise a few months back to discover through leprechaun economics that ireland is doing /well/ in air transport
<diddledan> new ithingies in 7 days
<diddledan> who wants one?
<zmoylan-pi> what i want, what i really really want is a new psion with wifi, blackjack and hookers
<zmoylan-pi> and you can keep the blackjack and hookers
<zmoylan-pi> 1st day of autumn...
<zmoylan-pi> well proper autumn that is
<penguin42> diddledan: It's all horribly messy isn't it
<penguin42> diddledan: And the Irish are saying the law is perfectly legal thank you very much (which it may well be)
<daftykins> i'm already eyeing up Rocky Mountain National Park t-shirts i can buy when i am over in Colorado next week 8D
<zmoylan-pi> it maybe that a deal was done when apple was pre jobs coming back and apple was on last legs... and it just didn't get relooked at after they became the money printing juggarnaut they are now
<zmoylan-pi> it's odd that apples share of mobile market is sinking down to the same levels their desktop os had back then.  even if it's super profitable you wonder can it last
<daftykins> took a few generations for their customers to see they all do the same thing :)
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: the super profitable is all you need; you don't actually need share
<daftykins> the state their all in one desktops (iMacs) and laptops (Macbook Pros) are in though, oof - hardware hasn't been refreshed despite superior intel chips, in like 900 days
<zmoylan-pi> penguin42 they had super profitable back then too but it faded as early new software appeared first on other platforms
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: Right, so they've got to get enough share to keep new software development for their platforms
<zmoylan-pi> they _owned_ the dtp market plus a few others and were considered unreplaceable in those markets
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: and video editing and graphics and a few others - but they were miles ahead in hardware and base OS at the time
<zmoylan-pi> and it seems to me at least they're making the same decisions again
<zmoylan-pi> and music
<zmoylan-pi> but as important as they were there it wasn't enough...
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: Not once you can do the same thing on cheaper platforms
<zmoylan-pi> the idea of doing dtp on windows was considered laughable...
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: I mean I remember back in ~1992 Macs could do lots of separate displays each with different bit depth and resolution and have windows split across them; can platforms do that these days?
 * zmoylan-pi remembers doing cad on dos/windows with multiple screens then too...
<zmoylan-pi> 'twas a wee bit of a black art getting the hardware not to explode :-)
<penguin42> with different screen depths?
<zmoylan-pi> one was console 80x25 and other was vga/svga for graphical output
<penguin42> that's cheating; I mean multiple bitmapped
<penguin42> with a window dragged across the join
<zmoylan-pi> oh... x windows could be done on dos then too.... deskview people did it...
<penguin42> yeh but I'm not sure X can do that; in fact I'm pretty sure it can't
<zmoylan-pi> let me look, i think it could... i had some dealings with deskview so saw a lot of them pushing x on dos.  could be wrong mind...
<diddledan> even mswindows is having issue with multiple dpi levels
<diddledan> osx does it fine
<daftykins> diddledan: cat does the macarena - http://imgur.com/gallery/RGznj
<diddledan> (I realise it's different to bit-depth)
<diddledan> nawww
<penguin42> diddledan: Yeh in principal they're separate problems, but I think the structure means if you get it right you can cope with either; I think X suffers from having bit depth/dpi associated with the desktop (root window???)
<diddledan> penguin42: I think you're right there. it seems from dpi issues that I've been having with buntu on a retina macbook pro connected to regular 72dpi external monitors that X is seeing it all as 72dpi
 * zmoylan-pi reads the blurb on desqview/x from mag i probably read back then... :-) https://books.google.ie/books?id=6z0EAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA15&redir_esc=y&hl=en
<penguin42> diddledan: Yeh that's probably what I'd expect; I think there are some newer tweaks but I don't think there's anything that really works
#ubuntu-uk 2016-09-01
<diddledan> on mswin dragging a window between hidpi and lodpi will cause your window to jump about - drag it half-way off the hidpi onto low and before you get there it will be regular size on the hidpi and huge on the lowdpi and as you breach the 50% threshold the window will suddenly jump-down in size to the lowdpi level making it teeny on the hidpi
<zmoylan-pi> hmmm, not seeing any dual screens setup... http://toastytech.com/guis/dvx.html
<daftykins> diddledan: that sounds weird
<diddledan> daftykins: correct.
<daftykins> also you should make a video!
<diddledan> yes. yes I should
 * daftykins patiently awaits
 * zmoylan-pi finds that someone has copied all the 'latest' updates from late 80s and early 90s for the quarterdeck software... just in case :-P http://www.pcorner.com/list/AOS
<daftykins> 0o
<zmoylan-pi> don't knock it, i can retire my 2400 baud modem if i don't need to download them from their bbs... :-P
<daftykins> ok i must sleep
<daftykins> also someone lend me an iron! i need a good shirt for a wedding Saturday ;_;
<daftykins> won't the chores ever end :(
<zmoylan-pi> sleep well o/
<ali1234> X basically doesn't work at anything less than 24 bit these days
<penguin42> ali1234: I've seen 16 reasonably recently
<mapps> hi
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<BigRedS> good morning!
<popey> yo
<foobarry> !yo
<foobarry> boo
<brobostigon> meep
<popey> foobarry: what's the plan with the hudl2 then? :)
<foobarry> i'm stuck. i need exploits for cve 2016-3747 cve 2016-3758 or cve 2016-3762
<popey> foobarry: surely there must be more than that?
<foobarry> maybe, they were ones i found with privilege escalation on 5.1 though
<popey> ah
<foobarry> are you planning to ubuntu-ise yours?
<popey> nah, would be nice to have a newer android on it
<popey> but can't imagine that's gonna work out well
<popey> needs the intel firmware stuff
<popey> which is all closed under nda I believe
<popey> easier to flash a windows tablet than android
<foobarry> pegatron paid MS to use Android too
<foobarry> root would be a start though
<foobarry> https://01.org/android-ia/downloads/ has 5.1.1 as latest
<popey> it's easily one of the most frustrating things about android
<popey> no software updates for you
<popey> unless you buy a nexus, and then you might get a few more updates, but not many
<foobarry> if they ran cyanogen a bit like fedora used to be
<foobarry> sponsored community distro type thing
<foobarry> it would be great
<foobarry> google throw money at the fedorandroid
<foobarry> just sent a request to tesco via http://ttselectrical.custhelp.com/app/ask/a_id/3969/
<popey> they usually say "No, security reasons" without saying what that actually means
<foobarry> well there are security reasons to update :P
<popey> right, but if you don't head that question off, they can hand-wave it away
<foobarry> maybe a combined effort from a few 100 users might help
<foobarry> run out of internet to read for the day
<popey> you're clearly avoiding reddit then?
<zmoylan-pi> do you know the jargon file to heart then? http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/go01.html
<foobarry> i'm on reddit atm but i curated the number of subreddits i read to a reasonable number
<foobarry> like 15
<foobarry> maybe i'll read a magazine #oldsschool
<zmoylan-pi> papyrus scrolls for #trueoldschool :-P
<popey> write a game :)
<foobarry> with only one hand...i'm eating my lunch too...reading an old linuxvoice CCommons version
<foobarry> i notice they say that sophie wilson designed the first ARM chip. always a minefield
<foobarry> been playing with hashcat to try and break some "hard" passwords
<foobarry> anyone tried rockstor the btrfs based NAS software?
<foobarry> has loads of docker based plugins for plex, opnvpn, jenkins, syncthing , etc
<foobarry> wonders how diplo's interview went
<popey> oh yes
<zmoylan-pi> has probably now moved onto the code your own os in 30 minutes part of the interview... :-P
<foobarry> or talking about mr robot
<zmoylan-pi> or dueling with soldering irons full combat section...
<foobarry> i had a practical "fix a broken PC" once
<foobarry> they had unplugged the IDE cable, wiggled the RAM out a tad, other things
 * zmoylan-pi pulls out hammer and gets ready to make minor delicate adjustments... :-D
<foobarry> i actually broke the plastic case a bit when opening it. i figured it was weakened by previous applicants
<zmoylan-pi> my hammer contains screwdrivers in the handle for the repair part
<zmoylan-pi> i have had pcs that were unopenable as the designers assumed you knew were they put all the catches and clips invisible from the outside
<Azelphur> Anyone using nvidia mind running nvidia-smi and telling me how much RAM Xorg is using and what resolution they are at? I feel like X is consuming a ridiculous amount of VRAM (even though I'm at 3x4k), currently using just shy of 2GB of VRAM
<zmoylan-pi> used to keep a 2' screwdriver to prise those buggers open
<zmoylan-pi> one particular hard disk holder inside a tower pc took brute force to get it out and had the instructions embossed on the metal in part that was flush against the case when it was installed
<Azelphur> nobody using nvidia? :(
<foobarry> my GPU box is turned off due to "charring on the PDU"
<Azelphur> lol
<foobarry> and its headless
<foobarry> so u might not get the same figures
<diddledan> turn off your speakers (they have music on loading) http://slidenjoy.com/en/
<zmoylan-pi> i *hate* startup bongs and music
<daftykins> :D
<zmoylan-pi> makes rebooting things at 3am a challenge not to annoy the neighbours
<daftykins> wow are your walls paper? :)
<zmoylan-pi> very quiet posh area, i can hear cats walking outside it's so quiet at night
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: are you a "posh knob"?
<diddledan> aka toff
<zmoylan-pi> nah, working class plebbage from wrong end of town... renting now in posh area mind...
<daftykins> hehe
<diddledan> so you're the rough interloper in posh-knob area. a pretender.
<daftykins> oy i had a client email about the office VPN being down, running it off a synology NAS so the OS auto updated but the VPN server package didn't :) doh!
<diddledan> d'oh
<zmoylan-pi> yeah but i also fix peoples computers so am respected...
<diddledan> aah, you're a tradesman
<diddledan> tradesmen are allowed in knobville
<zmoylan-pi> a mile or two away are the big houses on the hill... the small houses below them would have once contained the butlers and servants, now they contain their accountants and lawyers
<daftykins> strange, surely the clientelle should be the riff-raff below and those two professions be housed atop :)
<zmoylan-pi> bugger... http://www.theverge.com/2016/9/1/12748752/spacex-launch-site-explosion-cape-canaveral-florida
<diddledan> my dad, when he was a tradey, had to service Andrew Lloyd-Webber's TV. He was young and a bit up himself so he ignored the tradesmen entrance and knocked on the front-door for Andrew to answer him personally.
<zmoylan-pi> no in this area the people on top are the super rich. the bonos, the enyas of the music crowd
<daftykins> diddledan: ooh did he get a reprimand?
<diddledan> I don't think he did. seems he got away with it
<Azelphur> diddledan: aren't they mega-late on releasing, and no Linux support?
<zmoylan-pi> do it twice however and he'd be flogged
<daftykins> in fairness you'd want to hear first hand what was wrong!
<diddledan> Azelphur: no idea
<Azelphur> I'd love to buy it if it worked on Linux and actually existed though
<daftykins> sorry, you can either have warped values or new things - not both!
<daftykins> :>
<diddledan> :-o
<zmoylan-pi> you could buy apple and have both :-D
<daftykins> damn you got me there
<Azelphur> diddledan: yea, they are planning on shipping in November 2016, they were supposed to ship Dec 2015
<Azelphur> so a year late at least, assuming no further delays
<diddledan> dang
<diddledan> that's a long delay
<daftykins> what is this?
<Seeker`> looks like SpaceX did an oops
<diddledan> oh?
<diddledan> daftykins: the url I posted earlier
<daftykins> i only just connected, chief
<daftykins> seems my wilhelm had some problems in the night...
<Seeker`> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-37247077
<daftykins> freenode server that is </Archer>
<diddledan> daftykins: you arrived almost exactly the same time I posted the url:  <diddledan> turn off your speakers (they have music on loading) http://slidenjoy.com/en/
<daftykins> diddledan: ty sir, ah it didn't get through
<diddledan> daftykins: race conditions ftl
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: i was surprised and quite pleased that MS dropped a startup sound for Windows
<daftykins> it was usually the first thing i killed
<zmoylan-pi> bad advertising when you heard it so often from single systems.... tada my os is a failure as i needed to restart again
<daftykins> just imagine if GRUB had an error tone
<daftykins> oh yeah, so few users... ho-hum
<zmoylan-pi> i kinda liked the bong on my mini mac as it never crashed, or quiet beeps on old pcs but modern systems seem so jingle happy
<zmoylan-pi> i used to think that the noise the doors made on hitch hikers guide was a joke but i await the day they put a /pleasent/ tune every time you use a switch a smart bulb on or off
<slowfile> join romania
<slowfile> da fuck
<MartijnVdS> ???
<Laney> it's getting hot in here
 * Laney takes off all his clothes
<diddledan> Laney: :-o my eyes!
<Laney> this is because the man is working on the boiler and has turned the heating on
<Laney> #thetruthbehindthesongs
 * zmoylan-pi hands around the mindbleach so we can get that image out of our minds
 * Laney funds a national mail shot
<Laney> free naked Laney pictures for all
 * zmoylan-pi knows a few postmen and can have them redirected to turf powered leccy plant
<zmoylan-pi> ouch... https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CrQ7ALUWEAA8lKk.jpg:orig
<foobarry> apple is the 1%
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: that's faked methinks
<zmoylan-pi> oh of course... but still funny to my mind
<foobarry> like apples tax returns?
<zmoylan-pi> someone crunched some numbers on the apple back tax, about 5 new iphone 7s for everyone in ireland instead of the cash... :-)
<daftykins> suddenly the average IQ will drop
<zmoylan-pi> nah, ebay would go down with all the listings... :-P
<daftykins> \o/
<arsen> question is - does the EU have authority over irish tax collection? and should it ?
<zmoylan-pi> it does and it doesn't.  this may be in a grey area
<daftykins> just like when the UK gov pokes its' nose in Channel Island things ;)
<Seeker`> It sounds like they have the authority to say whether Ireland provided something they shouldn't have to Apple
<zmoylan-pi> lots of countries have vague little loopholes to get things done.  uk and all it's little island dependencies for example
<BigRedS> I thought the EUs problem was less with tax and more with state aid, it's just that the state aid here was implemented in tax
<Seeker`> The allegation is that Ireland gave Apple preferential treatment to enable to them to reduce their tax bill. "This is illegal under EU state aid rules"
<BigRedS> and the EU's definitely got issues with state aid
<Seeker`> If everyone was able ot have a tax rate as low as Apple did, it would have been less of an issue
<Safiyyah> i succeeded in getting the laptop going, thanks for all the help.
<daftykins> yay
<popey> hurrah
<Safiyyah> I hve two problems, the laptop mouse freezes quite often (it has done it more than 5 times today) and i have to reboot
<daftykins> what did you install, 16.04.1 MATE?
<Safiyyah> when the mouse gives up, I still have use of the touch screen which is the saver
<Safiyyah> daftykins, yes
<foobarry> try hitting ctrl-alt-f6 and then back to f7 and see if the mouse works again
<Safiyyah> and before you relax, I started the backup on the desktop, so will be tinkering with that as soon as that is done, I just wanted to have one system working properly first
<daftykins> foobarry's idea sounds good, next up would be logs and identifying the touchpad
<Safiyyah> Also every boot up, I get an internal error
<Safiyyah> for /usr/bin/nm-applet
<daftykins> if it's that box in the middle that pops up asking to send error info or similar, it's just from it happening once and wanting to send the logs repeatedly - if you delete them from the path it won't ask again
<Safiyyah> i sent the reports, why does it keep popping up?
<daftykins> no idea, i don't use Linux on the desktop
<Safiyyah> this is the laptop
<daftykins> yes i'm talking about as a desktop OS as in with a GUI
<Safiyyah> desktop, i haven't started yet
 * daftykins only runs servers typically
<Safiyyah> is nm-applet something important?
<daftykins> network manager applet, so it's handling the visibility and functionality of your network connections (wired or wifi) most likely
<Safiyyah> shall i select ignore in future?
<daftykins> i wouldn't, i would delete the logs as above
<daftykins> can't quite remember the path, something like /var/crash
<Safiyyah> how do i delete the logs?
<daftykins> http://askubuntu.com/questions/133385/getting-system-program-problem-detected-pops-up-regularly-after-upgrade/369297
<daftykins> aww yis my memory still works sometimes
<Safiyyah> awww
<daftykins> hmm?
<Safiyyah> regarding the mouse how do i get you the log?
<diddledan> paste.ubuntu.com
<Safiyyah> where is the log
<Safiyyah> ?
<daftykins> when the issue happens, you need to try what foobarry said - and also try "dmesg | tail" to see if there is anything relevant
<daftykins> you can also identify the touchpad by sharing the X.org log perhaps, "cat /var/log/Xorg.0.log | nc termbin.com 9999" and share the URL
<Safiyyah> http://termbin.com/k60u
<Safiyyah> btw the mouse stops working if I click and scroll at the same time
<Safiyyah> according the this it's a known issue https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingTouchpadDetection
<Safiyyah> about 1/3 of the page under the subheading ' In case your Touchpad stops working after a while'
<Safiyyah> i want to install the wireless printer, where do I find something called a deviceURI
<daftykins> that'd be something like ip://x.x.x.x
<daftykins> yep you have an ELAN touchpad causing all kinds of errors
<daftykins> !info linux-generic
<lubotu3> linux-generic (source: linux-meta): Complete Generic Linux kernel and headers. In component main, is optional. Version 4.4.0.36.38 (xenial), package size 1 kB, installed size 12 kB
<daftykins> Safiyyah: try this: http://askubuntu.com/questions/786021/ubuntu-16-04-elantech-touchpad
<daftykins> make a backup of the 50-synaptics.conf before editing of course
<Safiyyah> just rebooting brb
<daftykins> http://www.anandtech.com/show/10635/intel-quietly-launches-apollo-lake-soc
<daftykins> intel atom (apollo lake) with hardware decode of HEVC and VP9 out for the holidays perhaps, in suitable little HTPCs
<daftykins> back a little later \o
<diddledan_> tata
<diddledan_> going to play deus ex?
<diddledan_> oh dear: http://www.macrumors.com/2016/09/01/samsung-exploding-batteries-recall-galaxy-note-7/
<Safiyyah> am back
<Safiyyah> and I got the printer going wirelessly (I thought that was going to be tougher than it was )
<Safiyyah> the idea of pressing ctrl-alt-f6  when the touchpad died was a very very bad one
<Safiyyah> after logging in and typing exit (I was still in the black screen of death)
<diddledan_> if it didn't help it was still a good idea
<Safiyyah> no amount of keying in exit or f7 got me out of the loop
<Safiyyah> i had to restart
<Safiyyah> diddledan_, perhaps teach me how to get out of the loop
<diddledan_> wat: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-37242696?ocid=socialflow_twitter
<Safiyyah> onto to desktop
<Safiyyah> trying to set up nvidia
<Safiyyah> last time I did this install for xubuntu, I noted the right driver was 352.63 , however I do not have it as one of the options here
<Safiyyah> I have 361.42  , 304.131   , 340.96
<Safiyyah> do I just get the nearest number to the one I had before?
<daftykins> Safiyyah: it wasn't F7 on its' own, it was alt+F7, to get back
<daftykins> Safiyyah: you'll have to remind us which nvidia card it is.
<Safiyyah> lol
<Safiyyah> Asus GeForce GT 610 Silent Nvidia Graphics Card (2GB DDR3, PCI Express 2.0, HDMI, DVI-I, VGA, Low Profile Design, 0dB Silent Cooling)
<Safiyyah> https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B008A1C2AM/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
<Safiyyah> i tried three drivers in the that time
<Safiyyah> neaveaux (however it is spelt) is not crisp but not bad
<Safiyyah> i also updated the ubuntu drivers ppa to get newer drivers
<daftykins> GT610 was enough :>
<daftykins> oh right, that's something you shouldn't have done on 16.04.
<Safiyyah> well the old thing died
<Safiyyah> kaput died
<Safiyyah> and after 8 years of service, it had done its time
<Safiyyah> okay I will list the available drivers as of now : 364.19, 304.131, 358.16,340.96, 370.23, 367.44, 361.45, 304.131
<Safiyyah> the one that worked well in my previous install was 362.63 but it is not on the list
<daftykins> i just meant GT610 is enough to convey what model it is
<daftykins> newest should be fine
<Safiyyah> oh well, it is all jargon for me
<Safiyyah> i am on currently on the newest one
<Safiyyah> the images aren't as crisp
<Safiyyah> but better than the last two I tried
<Safiyyah> is it time to sort out xorg.conf?
<daftykins> is this still on that weird TV of yours?
<Safiyyah> with popey's file?
<Safiyyah> yep
<daftykins> yes it sounds like it's displaying the wrong resolution, open nvidia-settings or the monitors app and check
<daftykins> it had to be 1360x768 iirc, so i'd bet it's on something else right now
<Safiyyah> it is on 1024*768 when I changed to the one you said it went clear but out of the viewabke area
<Safiyyah> viewable*
<daftykins> i don't follow
<Safiyyah> am impressed you remember (or wrote down) my settings
<daftykins> memorised because it's a common thing, although normally displays are 1366x768
<daftykins> that's how weird your TV is :>
<Safiyyah> well everything on the left hand side is gone to ....well oblivion
<daftykins> i think you might as well just place the custom xorg.conf and see what happens
<Safiyyah> but the images were clear
<Safiyyah> okidok
<Safiyyah> please not the nano stuff
<daftykins> cp... :P
<Safiyyah> will do
<daftykins> if you have a copy of it you just copy it into place and restart X / reboot
<Safiyyah> okay it is better but, the resolution is still wrong
<Safiyyah> the stuff disappear to the left when I try to correct it
<daftykins> i have no idea what you mean
<Safiyyah> the left side of the screen disappears, or is out of focus, this includes the menu area etc. Also I can see the lines that run through the monitor
<Safiyyah> all not good
<daftykins> if the custom xorg.conf is in place and being used, then it doesn't make much sense to be wrong
<Safiyyah> i copied it into /etc/X11/
<daftykins> and rebooted?
<daftykins> it is named xorg.conf right? maybe re-run "cat /var/log/Xorg.0.log | nc termbin.com 9999"
<Safiyyah> okay I  give up,the pike key on the microsofot keyboard for the desktop does not work
<daftykins> pike key o0
<Safiyyah> i found the setting
<Safiyyah> am okay I havent got the tissue out yet
<Safiyyah> http://termbin.com/f6q1
<daftykins> ok you're running an older kernel there, so you reinstalled the desktop but you didn't update it yet
<daftykins> that's going to ruin things
<Safiyyah> i though I wiped everything
<Safiyyah> i reset the partitions and all
<Safiyyah> so do I run an update first?
<daftykins> right it's a clean install but that's an older kernel
<daftykins> never try to fix anything on Linux if the machine isn't up to date :)
<daftykins> i have to go to the kitchen for a bit to work on this phone i'm taking apart
<zmoylan-pi> must be ice cream sandwich... :-P
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/e8aeqhqb5m1ydvt/IMG_20160901_192602.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> today's victim
<Safiyyah> okay so after the update, just reboot?
<Safiyyah> of I need to do the lot again?
<daftykins> you'll see
<zmoylan-pi> i'd offer my large hammer but it looks like it's already met it... :-P
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i need to microwave my gel pack to heat up the adhesive top and bottom, ugh
<Safiyyah> okay no joy still
<Safiyyah> I can still see movement on the screen AND if I set it to 1360*768 I lose the left side
<Safiyyah> 1368*768 works okay
<Safiyyah> there is still some movement on the screen but very slight. I am wondering if the problem is not that I have a crisp screen on the laptop that is making that one look abit meeeh
<Safiyyah> http://termbin.com/qsgb
<Safiyyah> check it now pleas
<Safiyyah> please*
<Safiyyah> perhaps I have done okay?
<daftykins> 1360, you cannot use anything close - it *must* be exact
<Safiyyah> but it fits perfectly
<Safiyyah> okay when I put it back, it will go meh
<Safiyyah> the 'correct' setting has the left of the screen go.... it magnifies everything.
<Safiyyah> everything is larger so it doesn't fit in
<daftykins> would be so much easier if you just uploaded a picture XD
<daftykins> what's different above the /gsgb paste?
<daftykins> *about the above
<safiyyah_> http://l38i.imgup.net/Screenshot2c3d.png
<safiyyah_> http://a45i.imgup.net/Screenshot33ea.png
<daftykins> i was more thinking a picture from your phone to see what goes strange about the left hand side
<Safiyyah> do I share via dropbox?
<daftykins> or imgur.com
<Safiyyah> https://www.dropbox.com/s/an93el91ip4v8tz/20160901_203945.jpg?dl=0
<Safiyyah> https://www.dropbox.com/s/emwyv7rp6ey4ie6/20160901_204006.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> so what's going on in each?
<Safiyyah> the one with the application menu to left and all the elements has the wrong 1368*768 setting
<daftykins> makes sense, too much width -> overlaps
<Safiyyah> the right setting 1360*768 is well the left is gone and everything is magnified
<daftykins> oh so 1360 is the second link?
<daftykins> that friggin' TV is so cursed
<Safiyyah> lol
<daftykins> VGA in 2016 is just ugh
<Safiyyah> am sure you will sing when it dies and I have to get a new one
<daftykins> well i could rinse my hands of it any time :P
<Safiyyah> well am stuck with the thing for now
 * christel tickles Myrtti_ 
<Safiyyah> are you telling me if i buy a large tv screen that is hdmi , it will do the job?
<Myrtti_> crikey
<daftykins> i would not buy something with HDMI for a computer to be connected to
<daftykins> DVI input would be preferable, depends if you have speakers separate or not
<Safiyyah> speakers are seperate. I will keep that in mind next time
<Safiyyah> why can I not have it on the wrong settings?
<Safiyyah> I am not a gamer
<daftykins> it has nothing to do with gaming
<daftykins> LCDs have 1:1 pixels so the ideal setup is to display only that amount
<daftykins> but meh, your first picture displays ok - or at least looks fine in the wonky picture :D so maybe it'll do
<Safiyyah> what do I do?
<penguin42> 1368x768 monitors are a pain - Linux really doesn't like them some of the time
<penguin42> the problem is they're not divisible by 16 pixels and that upsets some drivers
<penguin42> safiyyah: I ended up playing with an X modeline for my mums machine
<Safiyyah> i have annoyed daftykins with this monitor for the past 5 years
<daftykins> that's what Safiyyah has from last time but i've a feeling it's been getting ignored
<daftykins> the monitor sucks because it fails to give EDID over VGA though, since VGA needs to be left in the past / museums :)
<Safiyyah> ah is that why you called it a museum piece
<daftykins> yep!
<Safiyyah> well I have always come to you for purchase advice since I have known you
<Safiyyah> so rest assured, you will have a say next time (budget constraints included)
<daftykins> :P
 * daftykins pats his 8 year old LCDs
<Safiyyah> lol
<Safiyyah> we didnt do too badly on the laptop
<daftykins> here's some advice though, stop chasing the version numbers
<daftykins> this whole reinstalling when you're already on an LTS that works - it's just not worth the hassle
<Safiyyah> i am innocent
<daftykins> should've put 14.04 on the laptop perhaps to maintain consistency
<Safiyyah> my blimming husband ran the automatic update for the new LTS and killed my system
<Safiyyah> i already want to wring his neck
<Safiyyah> believe me!
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> shouldn't give the admin pass then :>
<Safiyyah> my perfectly setup printer and scanner await me
<Safiyyah> they are no easy to set up
<Safiyyah> i just want to kill him lately
<Safiyyah> anyway am not here to discuss marriage problems but the point is, it wasn't me, it wasn't the kids
<Safiyyah> its him!!!!
<daftykins> \o/
<safiyyah_> i am also being punished
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/673jaump5ujffd6/AACt6raMVER6UPsO8RAH05B3a?dl=0
<daftykins> i made some progress ^_^
<zmoylan-pi> nice delicate bit of work there...
<daftykins> trouble is the new digitiser on, it just sits at the samsung logo, no boot :|
<daftykins> but we wouldn't want it to be easy, would we?
<zmoylan-pi> if it were easy then taking the hostages wouldn't be necessary... :-P
<daftykins> this is true
<safiyyah_> the guilty party is reclining on the sofa watching away. his solution is to use it on the wrong setting and buy a new one in a couple of months time
<safiyyah_> typical man!
<safiyyah_> he infact says am wasting my time, leave it on the wrong setting until it packs up
<safiyyah_> GRRRRRRR!
<daftykins> if i remember rightly, your custom xorg.conf in the past only worked on specific driver versions
<safiyyah_> yes but the graphics card changed
<daftykins> so you could have fun trying to use it with each and every nvidia driver there is, which supports that card
<daftykins> right but that doesn't matter
<safiyyah_> the last setting was 352.63
<daftykins> the driver is still a commonality
<safiyyah_> that worked well
<safiyyah_> and it was on this same card
<safiyyah_> this is the last time we were up all night fixing the desktop
<daftykins> yes and now you've installed a different ubuntu version with a new kernel!
<daftykins> so everything learned is now unlearned
<safiyyah_> you know, I dont know what to do about it at all
<daftykins> probably makes more sense to go back to 14.04.1 imo
<penguin42> sigh, it reminds me I really should update my mums machine
<foobarry> enjoying mr robot
<daftykins> :>
<foobarry> didnt think i would enjoy second series
<foobarry> but just getting good
<foobarry> shame its at ep9 now
<daftykins> ah i've not touched s2 yet until it finishes airing, plus i'm going away on the 8th
<zmoylan-pi> a bunch of episodes on your device will make journey less boring
<daftykins> nah i don't do laptops on planes
<daftykins> the using of, that is
<zmoylan-pi> i was thinking small phone screen :-)
<foobarry> can't download the episodes
<foobarry> doesn't let you
<zmoylan-pi> and you call yourself a fan of mr. robot... :-P
<safiyyah_> neat job on the phone
<daftykins> thanks - shame it won't boot XD
<safiyyah_> right so the solution is to get him to buy me a new monitor
<zmoylan-pi> can you not get a cheap one at local recycling centre?
<daftykins> or install 14.04.1 and do that
<safiyyah_> am already upset. and this idea that I cannot set up the thing
<safiyyah_> means am not very happy
<safiyyah_> it was running Xubuntu before
<safiyyah_> but I heard the new LTS crashed
<safiyyah_> so I was too scared and put MATE on
<daftykins> there is no reason for you to be running 16.04 anyway
<safiyyah_> according to all the nice new things on my laptop. It seemed like I could set it all up and have them the same.
<daftykins> wasn't much point going with 16.04 there either :) did that link i shared solve the touchpad issues?
<safiyyah_> I think I might go to bed and think about it tomorrow. am upset about it
<popey> blimey, trying to play a game, been sat in a queue for a server for ~40 mins
<zmoylan-pi> moylans first rule of computing: nothing is possible till you've seen it acutally done once :-)
<danielthebague>  hi folks, i have the task for setting up a small business network! consisting of 5 ubuntu/win dual boot laptop and one windows laptop!!
<popey> finally got to "4 players ahead of you, 86 players behind"
<popey> I'll be too tired to play by the time it finishes :)
<safiyyah_> no I was busy with desktop so I saved the link
<danielthebague>  each laptop is connected to the wired LAN with a NFS when laptop are used do they have to be connected to the same cable each time or will dhcp configure each laptop when plugged into the LAN even if connected at different places each time within the LAN
<safiyyah_> I didn't realise people queue for online gaming
<safiyyah_> popey maybe you can work your magic on my monitor
<zmoylan-pi> they pay through the nose for preorders of games that haven't been written yet... i believe it... ;-)
<daftykins> it's not worth his or anyones time really
 * daftykins murders the VGA TV abomination
<popey> yeah, it's a busy server
<penguin42> they do some weird things with mangling the EDID to stretch stuff dont they?
 * penguin42 wonders how bad the firmware will be in the new TV that arrives next week
<daftykins> penguin42: her issue has always been that it fails to send an EDID at all
<penguin42> daftykins: You don't actually need one if you give it a mode line
<daftykins> penguin42: lol i know and as i said earlier she has a custom modeline popey helped with earlier but it still fails based on nvidia driver combos! :)
<penguin42> daftykins: Oh, it's a case of F.U.N. ?
<daftykins> ooh yes
<daftykins> we're talking festive holidays loads of fun
 * safiyyah_ unhappily off to download Xubuntu 15.04
<daftykins> *14.04
<daftykins> safiyyah_: and get 14.04.1 or it won't change anything!
<safiyyah_> please explain to me what will happen to my system if I leave things as they are?
<daftykins> i've not really been following closely enough to remember what is wrong with the weird res right now
<daftykins> if it looks ok, then maybe just get by with it until you can get a new screen
<safiyyah_> my solution is to get the culprit to pay
<safiyyah_> popey, do you have any ideas?
<daftykins> nothing like a bit of deception
<daftykins> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/14.04.1/release/xubuntu-14.04.1-desktop-amd64.iso
<daftykins> get this one
<safiyyah_> yes sir
<popey> safiyyah_: sorry, a little distracted to help
<penguin42> daftykins: Note if desperate you can switch between the hardware-enablement stacks and switch kernel+X between the 14.04.x versions without reinstalling
<safiyyah_> penguin42, that is all french to me
<daftykins> penguin42: waste of time since it's a clean install already
<daftykins> life is so much easier going from media than sitting burying yourself in package modifications :)
<daftykins> unless you want to take over and guide through it... because i was saying what i was saying to avoid that hassle
<penguin42> erm no thanks
<daftykins> XD
<safiyyah_> hang on
<safiyyah_> it is still going to bring up the update thing
<daftykins> so
<safiyyah_> and I have the clicking monster living with me
<daftykins> so disable it
<penguin42> yeh you can disable release upgrade but stick with security fixes
<safiyyah_> okay well talk me through that for the laptop. I am making the startup disk in the meantime
<daftykins> but you already installed 16.04 on the laptop
<penguin42> (I've got a Curry's bank-holiday-special TV arriving next week  - 1920x1080 with HDMI and VGA and component)
<safiyyah_> yeah I don't want anymore weird updates
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> i much prefer CLI updating
<safiyyah_> i thought you said VGA is the enemy!
<zmoylan-pi> vga is your friend, hdmi is the enemy :-P
<daftykins> ^ rubbish
<zmoylan-pi> ^biased
<safiyyah_> well my monitor is vga
<safiyyah_> and it is causing lots of headached
<daftykins> biased by 10 years of IRC support seeing VGA cause trouble and 25 years real world IT support with VGA sucking :)
<penguin42> VGA shouldn't suck that much!
<zmoylan-pi> you make them sound as bad as printers
<penguin42> now there's bad, and there's printers
<safiyyah_> is running the wrong resolution going to break my system?
<daftykins> nope
<zmoylan-pi> i've never had much problems with monitors apart from the one i called the chicken wire screen...
<penguin42> no, I've had ones with broken cables that wouldn't do EDID
<zmoylan-pi> and bw portable tellies plugged into my zx spectrum
<safiyyah_> i think I will live with it then
<penguin42> but other than that rarely; my Mum's TV is the only other one and that suffers from being a TV+VGA+1368x768
<safiyyah_> i might ask popey if he has any ideas tomorrow
<daftykins> no offence but beyond what i'm saying there are not going to be any other ideas
<daftykins> i'm not some newcomer
<safiyyah_> as for the culprit, am not settling for anything less than a 32 inch
<safiyyah_> run me through the specs please
<safiyyah_> curry's or very website please
<daftykins> what
<daftykins> about the only thing i'm interested in assisting is once 14.04.1 is installed and updated, i don't have the desire to shop right now
<daftykins> also when you say 32" that sounds like you're trying to combine TV + PC use in one again, this is a horrible idea and the reason for the problems from the beginning
<safiyyah_> ah!
<zmoylan-pi> i haven't bought a tv in donkeys age, are new hd ones same res as a monitor or less?
<daftykins> they're pushing the 4K ones now of 3840x2160
<safiyyah_> I am not a happy camper. I made the start up disk but please let me go to bed
<zmoylan-pi> but what size are the pixels, and are they still interlacing which blurs?
<safiyyah_> if I go any further this evening
<daftykins> you can't even drive that unless you have a specific generation intel chip
<daftykins> panels were never interlacing internally.
<safiyyah_> he won't live to see the morning
<safiyyah_> i am just getting more and more wound up
<zmoylan-pi> which shows that the last tv i bought had a tube... :-)
<daftykins> you should try looking at this phone then :P
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: i mean, some broadcast content is 1080i only, so interlaced 1920x1080 but that's the likes of sky
<safiyyah_> I will take a breather, disk is ready, will start afresh when am not tired
<daftykins> sounds like good advice for me also
<safiyyah_> penguin42, how do I disable auto upgrade?
<daftykins> i'm getting nowhere, starting to think i'll have to totally wipe the phone but that's not very preferable
<safiyyah_> at least the laptop is happy
<daftykins> ask again when you're actually at that bridge ready to cross it :>
<safiyyah_> you mean after someone has already messed the system up?
<daftykins> is it though? it has a wonky touchpad :D
<daftykins> you wouldn't get me calling it good with a dodgy touchpad
<safiyyah_> well, I suppose the fact that I got the printer working wirelessly and everything else is good
<penguin42> safiyyah: On update manager in the Updates tab, there's a selection at the bottom for 'Notify me of a new Ubuntu Version: ....' and that has an option of Never
<safiyyah_> I am considering living with the problem if I can't solve it
<daftykins> wireless printers are the #1 most evil tech ever invented
<daftykins> especially if they were Â£60 or less :>
<safiyyah_> it wasn't Â£60 or less
<zmoylan-pi> nah dot matrix still wins every time for the driving you crazy high score.  every page you print is a gnawing pain across your soul :-D
<safiyyah_> I work from home, I have to have a good printer
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: I'll take an FX80 any day, you know what it would do, you knew it would do it when you told it to
<popey> pfffft, barrell printers were where it's at
<popey> used to love the sound of them spinning up and then PAAAAAAAAARP an entire page is done
<popey> happy days
<penguin42> popey: where did you have those?
<zmoylan-pi> i could tell you stories about fx80 penguin42 and the day i met an ms employee at bus stop on mobile telling his mate how he had changed the version i was currently having a problem with...
<popey> penguin42: I worked for a telecoms company who printed bills for their customers
<safiyyah_> oh crap, popey I saved the bbc link instead of the touchpad link
<zmoylan-pi> i had to walk away from the bus stop or i would have /hurt/ him...
<safiyyah_> see how bothered I was about this desktop!
<safiyyah_> i mean daftykins
<popey> i had to use a burster and decollator to split the multi-part forms up
<popey> was dead good fun, seeing how fast I could pass multi-part prints through and not rip them to shreds
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: Haha; I used them a lot to do labelling at my dads pharamacy - they were great with the reverse feed
<popey> that would have been in late 1990 when they were phasing out their old systems and replacing it with... "A mainframe"
<safiyyah_> daftykins, please resend the link
<penguin42> popey: I've heard old ICL guys talk about the development of high speed printers, stories about them shooting paper right across the room or setting on fire
<penguin42> (or possibly ICT at the time I guess)
<popey> yeah, we had ones that would burn through a box of fanfold in no time
<daftykins> http://askubuntu.com/questions/786021/ubuntu-16-04-elantech-touchpad
<daftykins> fanfold sounds like penfolds friend :)
<safiyyah_> am calling it a night
<safiyyah_> thank you
<safiyyah_> and sorry about my melt down
<popey> they had a bunch of computers that were *almost* but not completely PC compatible
<zmoylan-pi> fanfold was fun as long as you got it fold itself coming out of the printer
<popey> That job (1990) was where I'd first seen Microsoft Windows IIRC
<popey> They had a NextStep too. Happy days.
<zmoylan-pi> my first windows was word for windows 1 which came with a runtime version of windows 286
<popey> blimey
<zmoylan-pi> compared to wordperfect which ruled the roost at the time it was bleh
<zmoylan-pi> it had trouble keeping up with fast typists
<popey> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e8/Bound_computer_printout.agr.jpg
<popey> sudden urge to print things
<zmoylan-pi> i wish they still made small cheap thermal printers like the zx spectrum thermal printer.  printing to fax paper or some such
<zmoylan-pi> not presentation quality but for lists, quick hardcopy etc.
<popey> Did you see the Berg Little Printer?
<popey> A few years ago. Shame it was a) super expensive for what it was, b) short lived
<popey> https://vimeo.com/32796535
<zmoylan-pi> i remember that.  it looked neat but as you say a bit expensive
<popey> There's an arduino style kit you can get to make an open one
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ah41jiq15jsz33n/IMG_20160901_221819.jpg?dl=0 :(
<daftykins> still can't get it to go any further
<zmoylan-pi> it's waiting for the new touch doohickey to respond back to it, isn't it?
<popey> https://exciting.io/printer/
<zmoylan-pi> now that is what i'm looking for, thanks popey
<daftykins> the digitiser? well i suppose the one i received could be faulty, yeah
<popey> np
<daftykins> ok looks like i've been sold an incompatible digitiser
<zmoylan-pi> oh well, another wait till the new right one gets shipped to you...
<daftykins> can't now sadly, since i leave on the 8th i'm jiggered!
<daftykins> i could try an England based one and hope it comes before i leave, but it'll cut it fine
<zmoylan-pi> assembling a phone in an airport queue might not make security happy... :-P
<daftykins> :D
<zmoylan-pi> show them your casio f-91w watch to show you're not a danger... :P
<daftykins> never to be deterred i shall keep trying...
<daftykins> if i pop the original back on i can say without a doubt it's the part, then i only have the fact i was sold it from France...
<daftykins> yes original works!
<zmoylan-pi> so deffo the part then
 * daftykins high-fives zmoylan-pi 
<daftykins> yepper
<zmoylan-pi> high fives back
<daftykins> although i could only connect one of two connectors this time as the other broke on removal, so i'm not getting touch working
<daftykins> but at least it booted
<daftykins> and it boots without one in at all...
#ubuntu-uk 2016-09-02
<daftykins> http://www.theverge.com/2016/9/1/12759912/samsung-galaxy-note-7-recall
<daftykins> whoops
<zmoylan-pi> a hot little number
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> got another digitiser on the way for Â£9 :) returning that one with any luck, too!
<penguin42> daftykins: Oops, battiers
<daftykins> and they wonder why 'fuel cells' never caught on...
<penguin42> oh I think that was because they didn't really make them chargable; no one wants to have to go and buy power like you bought printer ink
<daftykins> hmm, could be - i really do hope there's a battery breakthrough soon, though 12-15 hours from my current Dell XPS13 laptop is quite nice
<zmoylan-pi> that won't work, as soon as they make better battery they'll write bloatier software on faster processors to suck it dry
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ahwp8ao36ft3r3i/theprince.png?dl=0
<daftykins> Linux ref
<zmoylan-pi> well fuel cells need platinum and are stupidly expensive... so there's that...
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> i best go do that sleep thing
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<elliot_> gdf
<MooDoo> Morning all
<knightwise> mornig MooDoo
<diddledan_> morning
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> are you well brobostigon ?
<brobostigon> MooDoo: about average, and you?
<MooDoo> brobostigon: yeah i'm ok, ready for the weekend.
<brobostigon> :)
<diddledan_> that spacex rocket that blew-up yesterday. it seems it wasn't even firing the engine at the time it exploded...
<diddledan_> https://techcrunch.com/2016/09/01/here-what-we-know-about-the-spacex-explosion/?ncid=rss&cps=gravity_1462_7731419694259937243
<SuperEngineer> ...and it seems someone forgot the "no smoking" signs arounfd the fuel pipes
<diddledan_> I hope they can get back in the game quickly. it would be a shame for them to be grounded for another 6-12 months
<foobarry> what's the point of it all?
<foobarry> to be a poor man's NASA?
<diddledan_> foobarry: in this case, connecting africa to the internet
<diddledan_> NASA don't want to launch rockets. they want to pay someone to do it
<foobarry> oh
<SuperEngineer> and for someone else to have to say, "Elon, if you wanted me to stop welding that launch tower..."
<diddledan_> heck there's even murmurings of selling their stake in the ISS to a commercial enterprise
<SuperEngineer> Soon to be known as the Amazon Space Station [the ASS]??
<diddledan_> haha
<foobarry> wait till the saudis want to do space
<diddledan_> china might buy it an call it the People's Independent Space Station
<diddledan_> and then if they sell off parts you can buy a piece of PISS
<SuperEngineer> Musk International Space Station?...
<SuperEngineer> not gonna do the Korean one!
<diddledan_> they'd probably call it something like "The Imperial Space Station of the People's Republic of Democratic Korea"
<diddledan_> you know you're in for trouble when you need to visit a place that insists on telling you they're democratic
<SuperEngineer> "We ARE democratic - all of our glourious voters said so [then we returned their children]"
<foobarry> is there a nice way to tidy firefox profile?
<foobarry> my firefox is taking ages
<popey> yes
<popey> hoover the sqlite db
<popey> sorry, vacuum is the right term
<popey> well known issue
<diddledan_> o_O
<diddledan_> oh firefox
 * diddledan_ hoovers
<foobarry> i clicked "refresh firefox"
<foobarry> all my plugins removed..oh well
<foobarry> needed a nudge to get off adblock plus and onto ublock
<foobarry> https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/refresh-firefox-reset-add-ons-and-settings
<foobarry> so ...flash. does BBC offer anything besides it?
<popey> not really
<foobarry> http://www.bbc.co.uk/html5 seems to be missing information
<foobarry> ah ah, iplayer works, bbc news site does not
<popey> yeah, iplayer moved to html5 but the news stuff all still uses flash or real player if you find old pages :)
 * foobarry tries going flash-free
<knightwise> Friends don't let friends use flash
<Seeker`> real player?
 * Seeker` shudders
<knightwise> Seeker`: how bout Bonzi Buddy
<knightwise> Hmm.. bit miffed at my install of elementary on my Xps13. Smells like the battery life isnt as good when using plain Ubuntu
<awilkins> The thing that always annoys me is Channel 4 player (and maybe other tv catchup widgets) that still use a build of flash that needs HAL to do the DRM
<awilkins> :-(
<awilkins> You get an endless buffering circle on Linux, even in Evil Chrome.
<diddledan_> this is a good video: https://www.ted.com/talks/adam_savage_my_love_letter_to_cosplay
<foobarry> knightwise: loki or freya?
<foobarry> i installed powertop and turned off a bunch of stuff
<foobarry> whats the battery difference?
<foobarry> awilkins: also the millions of adverts
<foobarry> best thing i did was buy an xbox360 for Â£25
<foobarry> i use it for plex, iplayer and amazon video
<foobarry> much better than chromecast
<zmoylan-pi> which is now builtin to chrome browser...
<foobarry> iplayer and chromecast are not playing well
<foobarry> on my adnroid devices
<foobarry> there is a known bug for months now
<Safiyyah> hi, guys thought I should let you know my dodgy touchpad was resolved by adding the code on the link daftykins gave to me
<Safiyyah> diddledan, I am relieved
<Safiyyah> I wanted to ask if the ctrl+alf+f6 is that what you do if the system freezes in general?
<awilkins> ctrl-alt-f6 just directs it to switch to tty6
<awilkins> Useful if Xorg is frozen, but not if the rest of the system is
<Safiyyah> ah
<Safiyyah> popey, I need to ask something about the xorg.conf file that you made me.
<Safiyyah> in the file you set the resolution to 1368*768 , is there a reason why daftykins said I have to make the monitor sit at 1360*768?
<Safiyyah> secondly, I have gone back to xubuntu on the desktop, before anyone here from last night decides to shoot me.
<diddledan_> neither of those resolutions are valid VGA spec. the correct is 1366x768
<popey> Safiyyah: would need to look back in the logs, I don't recall
<popey> i expect it was some problem which required the resolution to divide by 8
<Safiyyah> okay because when I install xubuntu, after I put the xorg.conf, all graphics are good
<Safiyyah> but the resolution is still 1368*768
<Safiyyah> i can pastebin the xorg.conf file give me a sec
<diddledan_> so apparently cisco certification means diddly squat: http://wordpress.tv/2016/07/29/julien-melissas-how-internet-works/ <-- skip to about 4 minutes from the end for the Q/A where he indicates that he actually knows nothing about IP
<Safiyyah> http://paste.ubuntu.com/23132956/
<acheronuk> ^^^"The Paste you are looking for does not currently exist."
<Safiyyah> http://paste.ubuntu.com/23123956/
<Safiyyah> sorry
<diddledan_> something along the lines of "the reason IPv4 isn't exhausted yet when there's 7.1 meeleon devices on the internet is because you only have an ip at the router, so like your phone goes via a statellite to verizon and the router is there so all the phones on verizon only have one IP and the statellite and the stuff inbetween are magic"
<Safiyyah> popey the reason am asking is because I loaded xubuntu 16.04 ,  it works happily and am wondering is ubuntu mate was also happy, but needed a bit of fiddling with the desktop appearance. I am new to mate so I hadn't played around yet. But I know xubuntu fairly well
<diddledan_> another great soundbite from those 4 minutes is "the world wide web is an example of an internet, but all out devices in this room are an internet that isn't the internet"
<Safiyyah> and I just remembered not all desktop appearances suited my system
<diddledan_> seriously, cisco certs must be naff!
<zmoylan-pi> they're a pricier msce cert :-P
<diddledan_> he didn't know that hexidecimal stops at F
<diddledan_> "zero to nine and then a to z"
<zmoylan-pi> he's management... i worry when they know stuff about tech at this stage... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> they get 'ideas'
<diddledan_> oh god, ideas?! lock those managers away!
<diddledan_> what the frak? https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01J77OKDE/ref=wtls_list_ovl_mor?fullSynopsis=1
<Safiyyah> i need to ask about tv screens vs monitors
<Safiyyah> i even saw something called a gaming monitor
<Safiyyah> the 32 inches have just HDMI and pci ports no dvi
<Safiyyah> the gaming monitors have pc and hdmi ports only
<Safiyyah> and the pc monitors have all 3
<Safiyyah> please explain what i need to be looking out for, I have been told that making a tv a monitor is always going to be problematic
<foobarry> something to do with response time
<foobarry> some games might be blurry
<foobarry> or something like that.
<foobarry> read the amazon reviews
<acheronuk> y
<acheronuk> yes, or so I've been *told* by 'gamers'
<Safiyyah> if my tv monitor (currently my desktop monitor) is having issues, is moving on to another TV screen okay?
<Safiyyah> especially since they do not come with dvi ports, just hdmi and vga
<knightwise> Afternoon peepz
<popey> yo
<foobarry> knightwise: think i was asking u something this morning
<foobarry> or yesetreday
<foobarry> hmm
<foobarry> lunchtime lol. loki or freya?
<knightwise> foobarry: erm ..  Freya I think
<foobarry> powertop helped me
<foobarry> my fan was running i think.
<foobarry> haven't heard it since
<knightwise> aha , i'll give it a look.
<knightwise> And i have to fix the "disappearing mouse after suspend" issue too
<foobarry> ah thats loki
<knightwise> aside from that its running like a charm (and SOOO pretty)
<foobarry> mine is fixed now
<knightwise> thats odd ,i think i downloded the freya issue
<knightwise> brb , lunchiez
<foobarry> apt-get upgrade
<foobarry> if you haven't updated for a week
<popey> s/upgrade/dist-upgrade/
<popey> s/apt-get/apt/ :)
<foobarry> in the meantime ctrl-alt-f6 and f7 will return the pointer. but updating packages fixed it
<foobarry> it was intel driver realted
<knightwise> foobarry: thanx :)
<knightwise> popey: A dist upgrade to loki ?
<foobarry> he was correcting my shorthand
<foobarry> bfor updating your packages if you are on loki
<knightwise> not on loki , still freya
<knightwise> assume loki no "ready" yet ?
<knightwise> foobarry: you also experiencing the "flickering" when running apps (mostly chrome) in a maximised window ?
<foobarry> i am running freya on lots of things
<foobarry> loki on my laptop
<foobarry> no probs
<foobarry> no flicker
<foobarry> intel graphics
<knightwise> so would you do a dist-upgrade ?
<knightwise> they suggest a clean install
<Safiyyah> loki?
<knightwise> yep
<Safiyyah> what is that?
<knightwise> new version of Elementary OS
<Safiyyah> just letting you know I had a flicker on ubuntu mate yesterday
<Safiyyah> full screen or not
<knightwise> Safiyyah: what graphics card do you have  ?
<daftykins> *yawn*
<daftykins> Safiyyah: oh so your custom xorg.conf always did say 1368, funky - i just assumed it was a 1360 deal - nevermind. Just enjoy it :P
<diddledan_> OMG halt and catch fire season three has started!!
<knightwise> diddledan_: just watched the pilot yesterday
<knightwise> Me likes it
<knightwise> wife does not
<knightwise> too nerdy for her taste she says
<diddledan_> daftykins: the 768 horizontal for 16:9 is 1366
<knightwise> i cant believe anything is too nerdy for her .. she married ME !
<diddledan_> or am I wrong?
<diddledan_> knightwise: she sounds like an awesome woman :-)
<daftykins> you are correct but *some* TVs see another resolution which isn't in spec
<diddledan_> bah
<daftykins> not see, but run at, even
<diddledan_> silly teevee
<daftykins> Safiyyah: so the reason 1368 is available is from the xorg.conf modeline so everything is fine
<diddledan_> knightwise: bingewatch all of them, they are so fun
<Safiyyah> ~@
<diddledan_> knightwise: though your missus might take offence at being sidelined :-p
 * diddledan_ wanders-off to turn-on the oven for friday pizza
<knightwise> She has been watching ALL BH90201 eps without me
<diddledan_> oh it's only 5pm?!
<diddledan_> bah
<diddledan_> I thought it was later than that
<knightwise> me is selfemployed
<knightwise> Workisneverover
<daftykins> ^ +1
<daftykins> clients found out i was leaving so have been trying to get me to do things the day before
<daftykins> hahahaha good luck!
<daftykins> leaving the island for holidays i mean
<diddledan_> daftykins: they'll find out where you're going and stalk you
<daftykins> heh my friend over in the US is taking a ferry from Connecticut to Block Island right now, i found the live data so spotted the exact vessel... http://www.marinetraffic.org/http://www.marinetraffic.org/
<diddledan_> lmao
<diddledan_> now who's the stalker?!
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> she asked me to :P
<diddledan_> in case she sinks?
<daftykins> oh man last night was getting worn out by overthinking all the possible variables in case a plane was late or what have you :(
<daftykins> this is why i love travelling alone...
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/mlmolbvsh6idbgk/M.2-SSD_vs_150GB-WD-raptor.png?dl=0
<daftykins> we've come a long way!
<penguin42> nice
<daftykins> 10,000RPM Western Digital WD1500ADFD on the right
<penguin42> daftykins: This was my SSD comparison; https://photos.google.com/search/ssd/photo/AF1QipNnYaN2hs_ta2VDyvINlIUus5OBSGrNNSLTXs-Q
<daftykins> ah that one wants a login
<penguin42> oh let me fix that
<penguin42> https://goo.gl/photos/nAYjGArpSgGUc4Pd7  should work
<penguin42> does it give you the text for that?
<daftykins> got the pic :D
<penguin42> 1 platter from a Fujitsu (Super?) Eagle ~50MB, an 8" floppy ~250KB, a DC600A tape ~60MB, and a new 120GB SSD
<daftykins> :D magic, didn't recognise the tape that way up
<daftykins> thankfully i've managed to stay away from them in my career
<penguin42> daftykins: They were nice
<penguin42> daftykins: The type of thing you could defend yourself with
<penguin42> daftykins: The other similar pic is https://goo.gl/photos/kNxAjeqsu1vwMggC8 that's 128kB eprom, 32MB CF, 16GB uSD
<daftykins> my dad did bring home a tape drive from work once when i was a kid, with the idea to back up our home machine... but when it took something like 4 hours to format a single tape and could be heard throughout the entire house doing so, i said no way am i ever touching this tech :P
<daftykins> haha very nice :D
<penguin42> haha
<penguin42> daftykins: The fun thing with the big QIC tapes like those was that there were two standards that looked nearly identical (one used by HP one by Sun); they had different end-markers and I think ran in opposite directions; so if you put one tape in the other drive they could spool off the end
<diddledan_> too cute: http://d.pr/i/16Bj9
<diddledan_> I wanna hug her
<daftykins> oh no! you're not one of them?
<diddledan_> you mean "a mother hugger!"
<diddledan_> ?
<daftykins> part of the MLP fanbase
<diddledan_> major league ponies?
<diddledan_> I have no idea what MLP is
 * daftykins squints
<diddledan_> MLB is basketball, so ....
<daftykins> baseball
<diddledan_> :-p
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/iyc8mc6499h1jeh/HDD2.wav?dl=0 45 seconds into that XD
<Safiyyah> knightwise, asus gt610 i think
<daftykins> yip
<daftykins> just use "lspci" in future :>
<Safiyyah> daftykins, yes, I went to currys and all 32 inch tvs have just a vga and hdmi port
<daftykins> yes because you don't get DVI on TVs - because TVs aren't monitors
<Safiyyah> the largest monitor was a gaming monitor
<penguin42> it's not the actual use of HDMI or DVI that's the problem; it's that TVs mangle the EDID to do odd things
<Safiyyah> also no dvi
<daftykins> no most things have moved to DisplayPort now
<daftykins> my 2008 LCDs even have it!
 * penguin42 hasn't seen a TV with DP
<daftykins> monitors, not TVs
<daftykins> you won't see it in the TV space
 * penguin42 wishes the wasn't the split
<daftykins> mmm proper mess across display standards really, as usual
<lopta> Is there an i386 port of Ubuntu?
<penguin42> lopta: There's a 32bit port - runs on 32bit machines but earliest I think is Pentium M with PAE
<daftykins> lopta: what are you wanting to install on?
<Safiyyah> http://paste.ubuntu.com/23125575/ i dont see where lspci lists that
<lopta> daftykins: VIA C3
<daftykins> Safiyyah: that's your laptop it doesn't use nvidia.
<daftykins> lopta: give up :)
<Safiyyah> oh i can see i have lost the plot
<Safiyyah> atleast i labled them laptop and desktop accordingly
<lopta> daftykins: :-D
<Safiyyah> i installed xubuntu 16.4
<lopta> daftykins: It was for a work thing.
<Safiyyah> although am in love with mate
<Safiyyah> the plank dokey, the lot!
<lopta> daftykins: I have a cunning plan!
<Safiyyah> I cant get drop box to work btw
<Safiyyah> is there a reason?
<penguin42> lopta: I think the C3 probably doesn't have PAE so the default install image wont do it;  it might be possible to install it because I think there are still non-PAE kernel packages in the repos but you couldn't use a normal install image
<daftykins> *16.04
<daftykins> lopta: indeed, bin it! :)
<daftykins> penguin42: yeah that's what my memory recalls too, on the no PAE front
<penguin42> lopta: Also I wouldn't take a bet on how the graphics support for the C3 is but you could try
<penguin42> lopta: Unless you're comfortable wrangling debootstrap I'd say no
<daftykins> definitely safer to avoid ;)
<lopta> I think I have an alternative plan...
<daftykins> well don't leave us in suspense!
<lopta> I took the disks and put them in a 64-bit single-core test rig.
<daftykins> :D
<Safiyyah> i installed the php for drop box, no joy
<daftykins> Safiyyah: not enough detail
<lopta> daftykins: The C3 box is my PATA test rig. When I have a PATA disk to test or wipe, I plug it into that.
<lopta> ...if it catches fire, it's no great loss.
<lopta> The 64-bit rig is essentially the same thing for SATA drives.
<daftykins> fair enough! i have some old core 2 systems for similar :>
<Safiyyah> i installed drop box for caja, nothing happened, search on synaptic decided to add php-dropbox..... still no joy
<daftykins> no, the easiest way is to install nautilus and nautilus-dropbox
<daftykins> that gives the GUI file manager integration but because you're on xfce you have to run nautilus instead of the default file manager, which iirc is thunar
<daftykins> that's one kludgy way of doing it anyway
<daftykins> the alternative is to just use dropbox in the browser
<Safiyyah> i cant get drop box to work on the laptop
<Safiyyah> ubuntu mate
<daftykins> same solution.
<daftykins> !info nautilus-dropbox
<lubotu3> nautilus-dropbox (source: nautilus-dropbox): Dropbox integration for Nautilus. In component multiverse, is optional. Version 2.10.0-2 (xenial), package size 85 kB, installed size 276 kB (Only available for amd64; i386)
<daftykins> yip
<Safiyyah> it is not that complicated in ubuntu
<Safiyyah> i mean xubuntu
<daftykins> it is if you want file manager integration
<Safiyyah> perhaps God made you make me reinstall xubuntu
<daftykins> which is totally separate from just having the program
<daftykins> please don't speak of religion
<Safiyyah> i wanted a twin system, now i am on two systems, I will have to learn
<Safiyyah> when i am next downstairs I will try the xubuntu and see
<daftykins> i've used it myself directly in the past on old laptops, the above i mention worked for me
<Safiyyah> i think I had nautilus installed previously because I thought gksudo only worked with nautilus
<Safiyyah> am finding it works with all file browsers
<daftykins> hah time to learn to use the terminal instead of doing such tasks graphically!
<daftykins> yes it's for running any graphical program as root essentially
<Safiyyah> i promised to make a concerted effort to use the terminal
<Safiyyah> only problem is, once the system is set up, I do not tinker with it
<Safiyyah> but I suppose I can copy paste and make directories
<daftykins> thing is when you use these shortcut methods like synaptic - things end up not working, it doesn't really do any favours
<Safiyyah> there is one dude on here who seems to speak terminal language
<daftykins> there's a lot more than one i assure you :>
<Safiyyah> when he helped me with a system crash, one of the SSD crashed
<Safiyyah> i couldnt believe how well he strung commands together
<Safiyyah> i mean it was impressive
<Safiyyah> no pike key.... no problem, he would just get past anything
<daftykins> what do you mean when you say pike? do you mean pipe? as in |
<Safiyyah> yes
<Safiyyah> ah i learnt the name wrong
<daftykins> ooh there's a thunar plugin for xubuntu now
<Safiyyah> thank you
<daftykins> for dropbox i mean
<Safiyyah> yes there is
<Safiyyah> but I set up the display
<Safiyyah> asked the questions and ended there
<daftykins> sudo add-apt-repository ppa:xubuntu-dev/extras && sudo apt update && sudo apt install thunar-dropbox-plugin
<Safiyyah> i havent sorted anything else
<Safiyyah> i need it for mate
<Safiyyah> laptop is mate
<daftykins> it's written 'MATE'
<Safiyyah> okay, i am on the laptop..... please temporarily divorce my desktop
<Safiyyah> only for tonight
<daftykins> if you enabled SSH you could work on it from the laptop :P and vice versa
<Safiyyah> now that is something that has my attention
<Safiyyah> does the desktop need a network card?
<Safiyyah> or is it just an app?
<daftykins> it already has one since you get online with it
<daftykins> whether it's wireless or not
<Safiyyah> okay am listening
<daftykins> neat, i'm off to bed - got a wedding tomorrow
<daftykins> g'night all
<Safiyyah> lol
<lopta> daftykins: Good luck!
<Safiyyah> ubuntu website says:  you must be an Ubuntu user that's comfortable using the command-line, editing configuration files, and starting and stopping daemon programs.
<Safiyyah> i am not qualified
<daftykins> that's rubbish
<daftykins> lopta: hehe thanks, enduring such events needs luck for sure ;)
<Safiyyah> i am looking up SSH
<daftykins> yes i know XD
<lopta> I'm comfortable with the command line, editing configuration files and starting and stopping daemons.
<lopta> ...just not on Linux. ;-)
<Safiyyah> i am reading more about the set up
<Safiyyah> someone needs to design a command like work book
<Safiyyah> so you do an exercise a day
<lopta> Safiyyah: That's a good idea.
<Safiyyah> am sure after 2 months one would be pretty good
<Safiyyah> i short exercise everyday
<Safiyyah> i don;t understand what tilda does
<lopta> tilde is usually a shortcut that means "home"
<lopta> ...so if I'm logged in as lopta, ~ means my home
<Safiyyah> sshfs -o idmap=user alpha-centuari: ~/alpha-centauri/
<lopta> ...I could also use ~Safiyyah to refer to your home.
<Safiyyah> i mean what is that?
<lopta> ~/alpha-centauri just means a directory inside your home directory that is called alpha-centauri
<Safiyyah> lopta, and the first bit?
<Safiyyah> i need a work book, I do one thing everyday until it all builds up
<Safiyyah> then daftykins will stop thinking am a dumb blonde when it comes to this stuff *wink wink*
<lopta> I could guess that the rest is a command that mounts a directory that you can log into via ssh as though it were a disk or nfs share.
<lopta> Bear in mind that it's a command I've never used.
<lopta> I'm guessing based on the context.
<Safiyyah> good guess
<Safiyyah> its correct based on the ubuntu website
<Safiyyah> i found some tutorials
<Safiyyah> i will work on that for the next couple of months
<Safiyyah> i am tired of looking like a dummy on this channel
<lopta> Safiyyah: I've found the people in this channel to be helpful and supportive of new people
<lopta> (myself included)
<Safiyyah> i am not new
<lopta> Safiyyah: ...so don't be afraid to come back.
<Safiyyah> been here more than 5 years
<Safiyyah> i think i need to change
<lopta> Safiyyah: "new" is relative. I consider myself a Linux beginner even though I first installed it from a stack of 5.25" 1200K floppies.
<Safiyyah> after my recent short revisit to windows
<Safiyyah> it is clear I will never return to windows
<Safiyyah> of my own free will
 * lopta nods
<lopta> I have to go.
<lopta> The office is closing.
<Safiyyah> okay night
#ubuntu-uk 2016-09-03
<shuvarek3> join #london-hack-space
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<popey> pip pip
<brobostigon> meep meep
 * acheronuk sets mode +F1 (qualifying)
 * SuperEngineer sets mode +F1-wishing-to-be (there)
<SuperEngineer> [looks at error log: line 14 annoys [fail: you-not-there found you-watching-on-tv]
<penguin42> press F1 to continue
<SuperEngineer> keyboard not found
<SuperEngineer> log states.. mode F1:eccle-stone causing conflict. Please report this bug.
<acheronuk> lol
<SuperEngineer> ;-)
<SuperEngineer> As per suggestion from penguin42 /me presses F1. Wow, it worked, qualifying now starts!
<danthebague> #samba
<danthebague> join #samba
<zmoylan-pi> join #hokeycokey
<danthebague> sorry chaps
<diddledan> someoneâs been watching strictly come dancing
<danthebague> not me far much more time to waste on getting my samba shares to work
 * penguin42 sends danthebague to smb-hell
<danthebague> thanks penguin42
#ubuntu-uk 2016-09-04
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<dataPulverizer> irc://irc.freenode.net/d
<benxyzzy> Does the "startup disk creator" make read-only Live USBs? I want to guarantee that no trace of the session booted from the USB stick remains on the stick after shutdown
<brmbrmcar> uh oh
<brmbrmcar> nae ops
<MooDoo> howdy all
<penguin42> hey
<popey> brmbrmcar: hm?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<daftykins> lo
<daftykins> new toys \o/ http://imgur.com/a/PojKC
<SebthreeBQM10HD> lo
 * penguin42 has a new TV due on Tuesday
<daftykins> penguin42: ooh anything special?
<daftykins> just making the last two ghetto cat6 speaker cables XD
<penguin42> daftykins: Curry's bank-holiday special 42" LCD dumb-TV
<daftykins> ooh
<penguin42> daftykins: JVC Freeview-HD - it's got 3 HDMI, a scary, component, 1 USB, and it does have ether (but I think for only playing local media)
<penguin42> scary?! A scart!
<daftykins> well it's a French standard so i'd concur ;)
<penguin42> daftykins: But more importantly, I paid them the extra Â£15 to take my 32" widescreen CRT out - given it weighs about 50kg and is upstairs I'm hoping they do it
<daftykins> oh excellent! yeah i'd pay to deal with that
<daftykins> a Manchester guy actually invented how to recycle CRT glass, i understand
<penguin42> really? I wonder where he is....
<penguin42> daftykins: I'm not close enough to the Irwell to dump it in there
<daftykins> mmm can't seem to find it
<penguin42> daftykins: nulifeglass.com seems to be them
<daftykins> that's the one :>
<penguin42> daftykins: They're under 15 miles away
<penguin42> daftykins: Although I bet my TV is on for a much longer journey
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> a gov site almost seemed to hint at pick-up for residents though?
<daftykins> council even, i guess
<penguin42> daftykins: As far as I could tell the council wanted Â£30
<penguin42> daftykins: They've got quite a blog on the front of nulifeglass.com showing the build out of their New York furnace (and they're now building one in Virginia - I'm not sure they've even still got a UK one)
<daftykins> i'd hope so! the original article i read spoke of licensing the process to China
<penguin42> daftykins: I wonder what the timescale is; I mean there's only going to be a ~10 year?? window where people are recycling the bunch of them?
<zmoylan-pi> there's probably a backlog that would take more than a few decades to recycle
<daftykins> yeah
<daftykins> 'cause the article spoke of them being gathered but sat around until the process was developed
<zmoylan-pi> somewhere there's a field with a big pile of nokia 3310s waiting for scientists of the future to work out how to break them up... :-D
<penguin42> daftykins: They might find the mythical Apple Lisa land fill
<zmoylan-pi> next to the apple newtown pile i think
<daftykins> :>
<penguin42> Oh the newtons were both smaller, and I think actually sold fairly well at the time
<zmoylan-pi> they started badly but were profitable by the time jobs got back
<penguin42> me and a few friends bought a large box of duff ones from a local firm about 20 years ago and made working ones from pairs of duff ones and sold the working one
<penguin42> s
<zmoylan-pi> but i think he didn't like them as he didn't invent them
<zmoylan-pi> i never saw one in wild mind.  this was psion country :-)
 * penguin42 has one here but it doesn't work any more
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: Yeh I had the Acorn branded equivalent of the Psion 3a
<zmoylan-pi> the school variant. putting computers in school kids hands decades before any one else
<penguin42> I was using that during my postgrad; very useful for walking around a library taking notes from papers you had to find and research; back in the day when you had to do most stuff that way
<zmoylan-pi> i could walk around with a psion 3a typing at 30wpm.  even standing on bus with arm wrapped around pole as it bounced across dublin
<penguin42> nod, very good for thumb typing - was just the right size
<daftykins> ah, one network cable left to make up
<zmoylan-pi> i typed with 1 thumb and 1 hand using rest of the thumb using hand to grip the battery compartment so it never fell
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: It's a pity no one does a modern Android device in the same format; IMHO it would still work
<zmoylan-pi> i've been saying that for a decade...
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: indeed someone now might be able to make more resiliant hinges
<zmoylan-pi> even a decent case for the pi zero would do it for a low production variant
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: You'd need the battery/LCD/keyboard stuff
<zmoylan-pi> that would be part of the case
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: and you'd have to get lucky for an uSD line up
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: I also have one of the things someone remade the Psion5 after they went under (can't remember the name)
<SebthreeBQM10HD> popey, ping
<popey> SebthreeBQM10HD: pong
<SebthreeBQM10HD> popey, pm ?
<popey> ok
<SebthreeBQM10HD> popey, can you pm me, on this tablet uhmm...
<SebthreeBQM10HD> not so easy
<popey> it is
<popey>  /msg <person> foo
<SebthreeBQM10HD> popey, maybe we could of had that chat here actully oh well, and thanks ;)
#ubuntu-uk 2017-08-28
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<marshmn> hi all; if I have a router which is "VSDL", can that be used if I switch to a fibre connection - or will I need a different router?
<marshmn> VDSL I should have said
<daftykins> marshmn: yes it typically does all ADSL services and VDSL services, but you have to be clear on what 'fibre' really is, of course
<zmoylan-pi> they left after 10am i think
<daftykins> oh yeah silly me
<daftykins> ah no, because i tab completed
<zmoylan-pi> ah, back at 11am
<daftykins> just texting a friend in Houston, her net connection went down :S
<zmoylan-pi> yeah, looking pretty biblical over there atm
<zmoylan-pi> they didn't evacuate in advance this time because when they did that dor rita it killed 100+ in chaos
<daftykins> *nod*
<daftykins> like all those disaster films
<zmoylan-pi> you tell 2m people to get out and it doesn't end well
<marshmn> daftykins: I mean the fibre type where you have copper from your house to the cabinet - then fibre from there
<marshmn> I think
<marshmn> essentially I'm with PlusNet right now and I have an option to upgrade to their fibre service
<daftykins> yeah that's just when they lie, essentially :)
<marshmn> I could do with the extra upload bandwidth more than the download
<daftykins> well just check out one of those line checkers online to see what speeds you could get
<marshmn> srue
<daftykins> yeah that was the same situation for me, i'm on VDSL2 with 60/10
<marshmn> thanks for the info
<penguin42> the problem is the prdictions can be very touchy - I know people with barely more than ADSL on VDSL
<daftykins> i think the line length, if you guys can found that out easily enough up on the mainland there, is usually a pretty fair indication
<penguin42> daftykins: Not necessarily; there's quite a few bad lines
<daftykins> that's true, over here you can get it checked before committing though
<penguin42> dont think you can here
<zleap> does ubuntu server 17.04 boot to a gui or console ?
<daftykins> you sure you want to touch non-LTS for server?
<zleap> i have a spare pc,  i just completed codecademy sql course so want to have a play with stuff on a local server
<zleap> however more than likely i will ssh in to do stuff
<daftykins> well server typically installs headless, as it's a nice minimal install - i'd advise you stick to LTS versions though
<zleap> ok good idea
<zleap> thanks
<daftykins> np
<zleap> i am not sure if this space pc has 1 or 2 gb ram
<zleap> i think it may be 1
<daftykins> that's plenty
<zleap> cool
<zleap> well i can put ssh on,  start / stop mariaDB as needed
<daftykins> i'm typing from a 14.04 server VM with 384MB RAM allocated, running apache2, screen and irssi
<zleap> cool
<daftykins> most of the time you have to tweak service defaults, it's no biggy
<zleap> i'll just fire it up so it is running mint at the moment
<zleap> who ever designed this keyboard is not a unix person
<zleap> or linux person
<zleap> to press a function key the fn button is at the far end of that row,  ctrl-alt are normal places so to switch to virt console you need to press ctrl-alt-fn-f1
<daftykins> sounds about laptop normal
<zleap> this is a desktop keyboard
<zleap> how to figure out memory
<zleap> total 1.7G
<zleap> so i am guessing i have 2G ram and the remainder betweel 1.7 and 2 is for video
<daftykins> 256MB onboard allocation could fit well, you could likely dial that down a bit whilst GUIless
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> ok bios is more useful 2048MB
<zleap> there doesn't appear to be a bios option to changed the shared memory
<daftykins> more often than not there is
<daftykins> i don't know the specs to know much here
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> the onboard graphics option is greyed out
<zleap> but this is a emachines thing so i can't put a 2nd graphics card in anyway
<daftykins> bit weird, if there were a discrete card you'd see all the RAM
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> ok 16.04 is still downloading
<zleap> i then have both 16.04 and 17.04
<zleap> but i agree use 16.04 LTS
<daftykins> *nod* when i do upgrade servers, they're VMs so i just build a new one up beside, correct all the changes with the config then swap IPs :D
<daftykins> don't believe in upgrades
<zleap> upgrade = breakage
<zleap> ok just burning dvd now
<daftykins> cor, someone needs a few cheap flash drives for christmas :>
<zleap> i have a stack of em,  just that my dvd-r and space dvds are on my desk
<daftykins> :D
<zleap> yay
<zleap> what is a HWE kernel
<zleap> i am guessing i don't need it
<penguin42> zleap: HWE is Hardeware Enablement
<zleap> k
<penguin42> zleap: Basically you get a set of {kernel, X, and some othe rstuff} and there are a few versions that I think vaguely correspond to 16.04, 16.04.1, 16.04.2 etc (which I also think correspond to teh 16.10, 17.04 etc kernels)
<penguin42> zleap: So when you install you stick to whichever one you started with during updates, but it means that newer subreleases get newer kernels so support new hardware
<diddledan> popey just beat me!
<zleap> i just use the normal kernel,  this isn't a server grade project
<diddledan> hard..
<diddledan> ref: https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/cant-do-two-cleanbuilds-at-once/1883
<diddledan> in other news, I'm really hot
<daftykins> well if you downloaded a 16.04.x where x is >2 ISO, it likely came with an HWE stack already on there
<daftykins> (newer kernel than the 16.04 release originally came with)
<zleap> k
<zleap> it copying data to disk atm
<zleap> i like the feature that you can see what you're typing when entering a password
<zleap> especially useful for setting up the initial system
<diddledan> I like the feature that you tell everyone your password so that they can haxxor you :-p
<daftykins> hmm never been fussed
<daftykins> diddledan: like 'kingdiddler82' ?
<diddledan> :-o
<diddledan> you haxx0r!
<zleap> i don't tell people my password
<diddledan> zleap: you do if you're typing it in that box that you just mentioned and someone is shoulder surfing
<daftykins> pretty sure i guessed your birth year wrong though :>
<diddledan> only one year out :-p
<zleap> no one else in this room with me
<diddledan> that you know of
<zleap> it is a small room at home
<diddledan> the SIS are next-door with a fibre-optic camera
<zleap> lol
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> i can't see SiS and not think of Silicon Image(?) Systems, the terrible mobo chipset maker
<diddledan> Schemano Index System gears
<daftykins> Shimano :>
<diddledan> bah
<popey> diddledan: :D
<diddledan> don't hit me again!
<zleap> ok installing main system
<daftykins> i've got my bikes right beside me here in the lounge, so i can stare right at the shimano front derailleur of one of 'em :>
<diddledan> what's the best thing you can say to a police man when they arrest you for something?
<popey> "Please stop hitting me" ?
<diddledan> yup
<diddledan> or variants like "don't hit me again, I'll say whatever you want!"
<daftykins> "i'm the twin sibling"
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> then you can get your lawyer to ask the cop in court: "do you recall my client insisting that you stop beating them?"
<diddledan> and you can get into word play like "did you or did you not *stop* beating my client?" .. "well I wasn't beating him to beg.." .. "if you weren't beating my client then you couldn't stop beating my client. I ask again, when my client requested that you stop beating them did you *stop*?"
<diddledan> "well, no, in that case then I didn't stop".. "no further questions mlud"
<DJones> diddledan: I'm Donald Trump's son (Althought personally I'd be the one researching time travel to make sure his parents had access to birth control
<DJones> hmmh, probably needed a ' " ' before that
<diddledan> I knew that was something off about you
<daftykins> daym it's 76 deg F / 24.5 deg C here at 7pm, so not used to it
<zleap> ok install done,  just running update
<diddledan> "Explaining Computers .com : Quantum Computing update 2017": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYESkqXVWa0
<zleap> wow that was fast
<daftykins> :>
<zleap> i just typed sudo reboot on the server and it shuts down super quick
<daftykins> yip benefits of stripping the cruft away
<zleap> :)
<zleap> if i want to make the console font bigger i edit /etc/default/grub
<zleap> the line #GRUB_GFXMODE=640x480 does the # indicate a comment
<daftykins> yep
<zleap> so if i remove the comment it enables that line
<daftykins> i've never done that though so can't comment on that being all you need
<zleap> ok
<daftykins> yeah, then running "sudo update-grub" iirc
<daftykins> i love native resolution TTYs :>
<zleap> yeah update grub
<zmoylan-pi> soothing green text on black console... nowt like it...
<zleap> i just want the font size a bit bigger
<zleap> but yeah green on black would be good
<zleap> this IS a console though not a terminal window
<daftykins> i'd just get a static IP on, openssh-server, then it doesn't matter after that
<zleap> i have server on a 2nd monitor,  which is right next to my other monitor for this PC
<zleap> once it is set up,  i'll use a terminal but if i switch back to using a monitor it would be nice to have the right resolution
<daftykins> *nod*
<zleap> i think i have sorted it
<zleap> i need to put in a new vgacable too,  this is making my screen look blue
<daftykins> ooh analog, retro
<zleap> well the monitor does have dvi
<zmoylan-pi> check you haven't bent a pin if it looks blue...
<zleap> i think the cable is dodgy
<zleap> as if I wiggle the cable, the colour sorts itself out
<daftykins> yip sounds wonky
<zleap> i have a few spare vga cables
<zleap> if not here,  in the tech jam kit boxes
<zleap> ok so what do i need to install a basic mariaDB server and start it up when i want to,
<zleap> as in manually
<daftykins> no idea off the top of my head, but "apt-cache search mariadb" should give the answer to the relevant package
<diddledan> sudo apt install mariadb-server
<daftykins> shh diddledan, teach a person to fish...
<zmoylan-pi> ...watch sales of fishfingers plummet?
<zleap>  ?
<daftykins> :D
<zleap> ok the website for mariadb has a how to,  it has a 404 on how to get started
<daftykins> i was suggesting it made more sense to tell you the 'how' and not the exact package
<diddledan> sudo make me a sammich!
<diddledan> has anyone actually seen toaster66 say anything?
<diddledan> I think we should kickban people when they hang around for years without a single utterance
<zmoylan-pi> if they ever did i think one of us would have noticed...
<diddledan> I mean like weeks is ok to be silent, but years?!
<zmoylan-pi> might be a silent order of electronic monk...
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> although there are a few channels that I idle in and never utter a word I guess
<diddledan> I should probably cull a few
<zmoylan-pi> but... but somebody might say something life changing in that channel tomorrow....
<zleap> ok i am mega stuck here
<zleap> i keep finding systemv tutorials for the permissions
<zleap> i can only run mysql as sudo
<diddledan> systemV tutorials?
<zleap> well this seems to refer to systemv stuff rather than systemd related things
<diddledan> what does?
<zleap> the tutorial i have for setting up mysql
<zleap> or mariadb
<zleap> but it uses the mysql command
<diddledan> install mariadb-server. done.
<zleap> that didn't set up a user
<zleap> it just installed, so i am now trying to figure out what to do
<diddledan> it set up a root user
<zleap> ok
<diddledan> it's up to you to set up any additional users you require
<zleap> i am trying to find a tutorial for that
<diddledan> google for GRANT
<zleap> http://www.yolinux.com/TUTORIALS/LinuxTutorialMySQL.html
<zleap> i did
<zleap> i got one that covered windows
<diddledan> mariadb works the same on windows as it does on linux
<zleap> I am using the command line
<diddledan> excepting linux-specific auth via socket if you set it
<zleap> what i found had screenshots
<zleap> ok simple question should i have to run this as sudo
<diddledan> I don't know what you're trying to do
<diddledan> some things need root privileges, yes
<zleap> ok so that is normal
<zleap> right
<zleap> i did the codecademy course on sql
<zleap> that covers adding and searching a database
<zleap> i want to set up mariadb so i have a proper db t experiment with
<zleap> i just want a simple tutorial to get started with
<zmoylan-pi> ...and that's why i only provide support for dbase iii+ these days... :-)
<diddledan> dbase iii+ ftw
<zmoylan-pi> none of that namby pamby wishy washy dbase iv silliness...
<popey> ahh happy days
<popey> I once had to write a migration script in dbase iii+ for a boutique hotel in kightsbridge. Think this was when new London phone numbers came in.
<popey> It took 20 mins to write the update script, then spent 3 hours making it look pretty with ETA and percentage bars and stuff
<popey> it was scarily accurate too. running on some manky old dos pc in their hotel back office took an age, but ended exactly when I said it would :) - and the data was right first time which was a bonus ;)
<zmoylan-pi> a done bar that was accurate... and ms didn't put a bounty on your head?! :-P
<popey> http://www.capitalhotel.co.uk pretty sure it was that place
<popey> I was very much out of place there :)
<zmoylan-pi> my boss once drunk after a rugby match staggered back late to his hotel.  and with no one on the counter while he waited noticed they had the novell server screen and keyboard on the desk by their reservation computer... so he leaned over and typed :server down giggled and waited for his key...
<popey> hah
<popey> Novel netware, also happy days
<zmoylan-pi> next morning woke up, went down to check out and found technicans frantically checking everything... guilt kicking in he announced he was a server specialist and offered to help and quickly brought the server back up
<popey> :)
<zmoylan-pi> drunk techs.... an evil combo....
<d3ngar> Hi, I am struggling to auto-connect on startup to my VPN connection. I see that I can enable it on the wired internet connection, but then it doesn't auto-connect on startup - which is quite important to me. Is there a solution?
#ubuntu-uk 2017-08-29
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning davmor2
<popey> morning all
<brobostigon> morning popey
<zmoylan-pi> :-) https://i.imgur.com/iph0NkH.jpg
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: nice
<diddledan> I question unicode, too :-p
<diddledan> how do right-to-left languages affect source code?
<diddledan> e.g. I've got a query where someone tried customising something I wrote by replacing some text with right-to-left text but the sourcecode looks all mangled
<penguin42> is that the editor you're using?  I think r2l have a unicode character that switches the direction
<diddledan> I'm not using an editor, I'm viewing their support request on the web (WordPress.org) and the quotes around their translation appear to both be at the start of the string when viewing the source of the page, but the display shows correctly
<penguin42> Øhelloâ
<penguin42> (that was inserting a r-2-l mark)
<zmoylan-pi> just code makes you yoda, no?
<diddledan> this post the comment by "mahdiar" near the bottom: https://wordpress.org/support/topic/filter-posts-via-category-using-shortcode/
<diddledan> see that the quotes surround the translated text, but view-source: shows both quotes at the beginning of the text and not surrounding it. I'm assuming the user screwed up when writing their PHP
<penguin42> view selection-source on that looks the same to me
<diddledan> this is what chrome says:  https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/frXJA9LH/
<zmoylan-pi> maybe isolate the particular language and find a few wordpress pages in that language?
<diddledan> copying the text and pasting it in here: (an electron app): return &#039;Ø§Ø¢,Ø¨,Ù¾,Øª,Ø«,Ø¬,Ú,Ø­,Ø®,Ø¯,Ø°,Ø±,Ø²,Ú,Ø³,Ø´,Øµ,Ø¶,Ø·,Ø¸,Ø¹,Øº,Ù,Ù,Ú©,Ú¯,Ù,Ù,Ù,Ù,Ù,Û Ù&#039;;
<penguin42> diddledan: ff http://i.imgur.com/G8n2Qvj.png
<diddledan> yeah, you've hacked the code into your own view-source which isn't the source on the actual page
<penguin42> diddledan: That was just highlighting the area and right click view-selection
<diddledan> this is what firefox shows here:  https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/Q7dDISXG/
<diddledan> as I said, the source is screwed
<diddledan> if two browsers can't agree on the order of text than how is PHP supposed to execute it as code?
 * penguin42 is assuming it's the way the browsers are rendering it rather than the way it's stored in the file
<diddledan> boy is it hot today
<zmoylan-pi> you need *dun* *dun* *dun* japanese non melting ice cream...
<diddledan> wait, is that a real thing?
<zmoylan-pi> science gone mad i tells you... https://www.cnet.com/news/we-try-out-japans-non-melting-ice-cream-to-see-if-its-for-real/
<penguin42> a lot of icecream has so much gum in that it only vaguely melts
<diddledan> looks somewhat like mousse
<penguin42> thought it looked more like a bear
<czajkowski> aloha
<Seeker`> o/
<zleap> hi
<daftykins> lo
<zleap> ok server working now :),  mysql/mariadb server also working,  as is a assault cube server
<daftykins> \o/ no idea what that last one is, but i bet some cubes are gonna get assaulted
<ali1234> i need to get a non-technical windows user to send me the SMART data from their drive. what software should i tell them to download?
<daftykins> ali1234: crystaldiskinfo
<ali1234> daftykins: is there one that doesnt have anime girls on it?
<daftykins> that one doesn't if you get the standard edition o0
<ali1234> yeah but the homepage...
<daftykins> hmm my adblocker must hide that, how about just linking the file direct...
<ali1234> user is going to be like "why did you tell me to go to a porn site"
<ali1234> yeah i think that's what i'll do. download the file and rehost it myself
<daftykins> oh there's one character in a banner
<ali1234> https://crystalmark.info/
<daftykins> also to make the values readable in a screenshot you'd need to either edit and zip up, or tell them to do: Function menu -> Advanced Feature -> Raw Values -> 10 [DEC]
<ali1234> nah they can just press control-c and then paste it into an email
<ali1234> that has all the info needed (i just checked this on an actual windows machine)
<daftykins> ok
<ali1234> besides, i can read hex :)
<ali1234> i just really want to know if reallocated sector count is zero, or not
<daftykins> lots more besides that one
<ali1234> yeah but all the interesting ones are either zero or the dri ve is broken :)
<daftykins> not quite sure how that sentence added much
<ali1234> the machine is freezing for extended periods, its not slow at all, and everything stops completely during the freeze
<ali1234> so my guess is the ssd is failing and the sata driver is blocking the whole system while it tries to recover
<ali1234> possibly because its hanging a page file operation
<daftykins> nice theory
<ali1234> i dont know what else it could be. its not overheating and there's plenty of free space on the drive
<daftykins> often you don't even see a remap on an SSD until a secure erase is performed
<ali1234> thats naughty
<ali1234> anyway can't hurt to look at the values
<daftykins> newp certainly is step #1
<ali1234> would be nice if windows had a built in tool for this stuff
<ali1234> even if it was just something in powershell
<daftykins> for which feature specifically?
<ali1234> getting the smart counters
<daftykins> sure would be handy
<zmoylan-pi> could it be some cheap piece of crap plugged into a usb port stalling the system... had that happen on more than one occasion...
<ali1234> its' possible. i'm going to visit the user and check for this stuff, but if it needs a new drive then i'd like to get it ordered before i get on a train to the other end of the country
<zmoylan-pi> and make sure you bring cables as well in case it might be the current cables been dodgy... #beenThereDoneThat
<daftykins> it's not a Crucial MX100 under Windows 10 is it?
<daftykins> specific as that is ;D
<ali1234> i think its a sandisk
<daftykins> ah cheapty cheap
<daftykins> +e
<ali1234> it would have been crucial if i'd picked it
<zmoylan-pi> do the stalls last the same amount of time or happen at regular intervals?
<daftykins> i used to like them but they drop drives rather than fix the buggy firmware now, saw it with the MX100 :(
<ali1234> i had a MX100 die and they sent me a MX300
<daftykins> yeah, they won't admit the issue with the 100
<daftykins> they behave if you can turn hotplug on on the controller port they're in though, but not all systems will have that
<daftykins> HIPM/DIPM bug where the drives disappear from Windows
<zmoylan-pi> now THATS secure :-P
<ali1234> hotplug is part of AHCI isn't it?
<ali1234> as i understand it, they only disappear when your SATA ports are in legacy mode
<ali1234> zmoylan-pi: the freezes last approximately 2 minutes. they are not at fixed intervals, but happen every 15 minutes to 4 hours
<daftykins> feature of but not mandatory, mmm
<ali1234> there's no warning before hand and no visible effects afterwards, it just completely stops and then starts again like nothing happened
<daftykins> eventviewer'd have some evidence probably, but yeah don't fancy that challenge via a user
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> also got to take all this with a grain of salt as its just what the user told me
<zmoylan-pi> yeah... the pc not turning on turns out that the pc is missing... fun times...
<ali1234> oh yeah and its windows 7
 * zmoylan-pi casts ward evil
<daftykins> thankfully expunged 7 from my main clients systems now
#ubuntu-uk 2017-08-30
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> Morning brobostigon and morning all
<brobostigon> morning davmor2
<foobarry> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-41095162 Customer data stolen at Cex online games store
<foobarry> The company said the stolen data included customers' names, addresses, email addresses, phone numbers and some old credit card information"
<foobarry> :|
<popey> oh dear
<zmoylan-pi> people all over irc will be panicing...
<foobarry> i popped into the CEX in weymouth and that stank of wee too. seems they all do
<foobarry> its like they've rounded up characters from GTA and put them in the shop
<zmoylan-pi> wee or weed? suspect a lot of nicked games get sold off there...
<foobarry> wee
<foobarry> urine
<popey> one near me doesn't smell
<popey> pretty clean and tidy
<foobarry> :o
<foobarry> the enfield one closed down, replaced by another similar shop
<popey> there are two in fact and never thought they smelled.
<zmoylan-pi> very new? not broken in yet? :-)
<foobarry> the last time i was in enfield one, it smelt like someone had crapped themselves
<foobarry> and always a simpsons comic book guy near the till with plastic bags loitering
<zmoylan-pi> used to do software for video shops. one of them opened tanning salons as video market dried up.  people used to use tanning booths as bathroom constantly...
<foobarry> ewww
<zmoylan-pi> ...and you had to be a member to use them... so they knew who used it...
<Seeker`> why would you do that?!
<popey> People are horrible
<popey> It turns out
<Seeker`> :O
<zmoylan-pi> speculation was that they didn't want to leave booth disturbing their tanning but max tanning time was only a few minutes...
<Seeker`> we need popey for president, he'll sort them out
<popey> \o/ I understood that reference
<Seeker`> \o/
<Seeker`> popey: http://handbag.popey.com/ why is that screenshot there?
<popey> becuse my web config is broken
<Seeker`> aww. Poor web config.
<foobarry> lets make britain great again
<Seeker`> popey: how's things? not spoken to you in aaaaaaaaages
<popey> very good as it goes :)
<Seeker`> :D
<foobarry> who is using solus in here, was it SuperMatt ?
<diplo> he is, as am I foobarry
<diplo> Along with about 5 other distros in different places
<SuperMatt> o/
<SuperMatt> Anything you'd like to know?
<foobarry> i tried it on my laptop after elementary upgrade made it cook
<foobarry> seems a lot better
<foobarry> i'm nervous about using a system that has limited packages
<foobarry> and away from the ubuntu ecosystem
<popey> ikey is good at adding new packages if you request them
<foobarry> i won't use it for my work laptop but mighton my home one
<popey> he's probably been asked for whatever it is you probably need
<SuperMatt> I was worried about lack of packages, then I realised I only really need firefox, owncloud and keepass for my day to day laptopping
<foobarry> on my work laptop i might tend to use a lot of scientific stuff or obscure packages, plus enterprisey stuff to support vmware
<diplo> It's very easy to get packages in as popey said, good reasoning and not a dead package and he'll add it, not limited by pacakages really anymore I don't think, not had any that I've needed not be available so fa
<foobarry> budgie has improved a lot
<foobarry> workflow a bit lacking though vs elementary
<diplo> I like Budgie, I was running ubuntu budgie before
<foobarry> alt-tab sucks, and no expose view
<diplo> andy@asuras ~/Downloads $ eopkg la | grep -v dbginfo | wc -l
<diplo> 5402
<diplo> Packages ^^
<diplo> Yep, alt-tab is being worked on currently I think
<foobarry> i would require plank etc too
<diplo> andy@asuras ~/Downloads $ eopkg sr plank
<diplo> plank           - Simple application dock
<foobarry> yep, i just meant that budgie seemed a bit lacking in simple workflow. e.g. the dock doesn't combine multiple instances of an app etc
<foobarry> it's likely i'll try it for proper on a home laptop
<foobarry> not sure what they did to elementary WM but it makes my fans spin up doing anything. tried powertop and tlp etc too
 * diddledan attempting to snap a game
<foobarry> i should probably look into snaps at some pt as i build containers at work regularly
<popey> diddledan: lemme know if you need a tester, i have nvidia and intel :)
<diddledan> roger that
<diddledan> I'm just working on getting the desktop entries sorted right now
<diddledan> annoyingly I cannot get SNAPCRAFT_CONTAINER_BUILDS to work reliably at all
<diddledan> it works once after a reboot and then never again until I reboot again
<diddledan> cleanbuild works every time so it's not lxd being a **ck
<diddledan> name registered.
<diddledan> ok, popey, popester, popesicle, the build service is running. and there's an AMD64 build that I manually uploaded (number 1 in the store - the automatic builds will be subsequent to 1 when they're built) - sudo snap install --edge openra
<popey> yay
<popey> diddledan: does it have sound?
<diddledan> should do, once you're in-game
<popey> no, my bad
<popey> its fine
<diddledan> :-)
<popey> works perfick on intel laptop
<popey> diddledan: works on nvidia laptop too!
<popey> nice one! :D
<diddledan> I haven't got the "load content from disc" working yet. I've added the mount-observe plug but snappy-debug.scanlog still tells me to add it
<diddledan> these are the relevant denials https://paste.ubuntu.com/25432959/
<diddledan> and these are the plugs: https://paste.ubuntu.com/25432961/
<diddledan> anywho, I'm just leaving to go parentals. bbl
<zmoylan-pi> he's probably gone to fix a tiny computer problem.... he may be some time... :-P
<DJones> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-41095606 A malware researcher has discovered a spamming operation that has been drawing on a list of 711.5 million email addresses..... Click here to check if you've been affected.....Doh!
<DJones> Despite being reported on by BBC, I wonder how many people (with a reasonable amount of brain cells) wouldclick the link and put theiremail address in
<penguin42> 50M of which will be out of date, 100M that never worked in the first place, 60M to the same person, 100M target a small perl script somewhere that has no interest in viagra, woodwork or free lighters
<diddledan> even ink
<zmoylan-pi> well the street value of inkjet ink is serious money these days... :-)
<daftykins> Palm is being revived!?
<daftykins> cor la
<zmoylan-pi> i'm hmmming and hawing about getting a palm iiixe... :-)
<diddledan> Really?  Who owns the name these days?
<flexiondotorg> diddledan: Thanks for the irccloud snap ð
<zmoylan-pi> 3com bought them, then they were sold to hp i think. then they broke it up and sold the os such as it was to a japanese company
<zmoylan-pi> and were going to use the hardware technology in taking over the mobile phone market... real soon now :-)
<diddledan> flexiondotorg: you're very welcome ð
<diddledan> Gotta decide what to snap next...
<diddledan> OpenRA is working but can't copy assets from official game discs yet
<zmoylan-pi> please say there's an email program called crackle that works via pop... :-P
<diddledan> Lol
<diddledan> Maybe I should find another game
<zmoylan-pi> ....or a text editor... :-P
<zmoylan-pi> does no one maintain a wishlist of program they wish to see processed?
<diddledan> Popey put one together a while back
#ubuntu-uk 2017-08-31
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<Gargoyle> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<diddledan> m00
<brian__> hi any experts on ufi booting?
<diddledan> https://9to5mac.com/2017/08/31/apple-iphone-8-event-date-official-invite/
<zmoylan-pi> well samsung have an 8 so apple must retort...
<brian__> i have a archos 140 cesium laptop with windows 10 installed on on internal 32G ssd
<brian__> i am trying to boot to a usb/sd card so I can use Linux ubuntu
<brian__> can get into the bios and change the boot order to usb by disabling windows
<brian__> but when i reboot i get a ufi scrip on the screen cannot seem to boot inro a ufi unbutu distro 14:04
<brian__> any ideas what to do?
<brian__> i have a usb memory with ubuntu installed
<brian__> and on my desktop it boots ok
<diddledan> popey: can I get you to test https://github.com/snapcrafters/corebird/pull/4 please?
<diddledan> it's a superset of https://github.com/snapcrafters/corebird/pull/3 in that it is corebird 1.6.0 the same as that pr but I've also reduced the snap size drastically
<diddledan> down to 12 Megger Nuts!
<popey> Sho thang
<diddledan> it's working for me, I've got it running right now. and I didn't break at least one video
<diddledan> way to go spidey! https://twitter.com/SheHatesJacoby/status/903300695989698561
<klystron> hi
<klystron> can anyone help with a ufi booting problem?
<popey> diddledan: https://twitter.com/popey/status/903321031535980545  :)
<diddledan> \o/
<klystron> anyone help re booting issue?
<popey> klystron: probably better off asking in #ubuntu
<popey> diddledan: http://paste.ubuntu.com/25439934/
<popey> oh, hang on, I'm running wayland
<popey> lemme logout/in again to x
<diddledan> hmm. how do I add wayland support, one wonders
<popey> -> forum
<popey> (I dont think we have an interface yet)
<popey> ok, logged back into x, started it and got my pin, put that in and it core dumped
<popey> worked sewcond time
<diddledan> hmm
<popey> working nice and stable now though
<popey> nice work :D
<popey> blimey, this is faster than tweetdeck
#ubuntu-uk 2017-09-01
<m0nkey_> Do I want to get Star Trek: Bridge Crew for the Vive?
<m0nkey_> It's half price right now.
<diddledan> yes, you do. then you want to buy me a vive. and a copy of star trek bridge crew
<diddledan> :-p
<m0nkey_> lol
<m0nkey_> But I have to deal with Ubisoft's UPlay
<diddledan> ergh
<m0nkey_> That is why I'm not jumping on it.
<ali1234> get gorn
<ali1234> its great
<m0nkey_> I see that's on sale.. 10% off. My threshold is typically 25% or more
<ali1234> i think you can still download the free version
<ali1234> https://raithza.itch.io/gorn
<m0nkey_> Worth a look, thanks :)
<m0nkey_> I did try out Vivecraft. Minecraft in VR is pretty awesome
<ali1234> that's an old tech demo, the version on steam has more stuff
<m0nkey_> You don't actually appreciate how big the blocks are until you play Minecraft in VR.
<m0nkey_> They're frickin huge!
<ali1234> they are 1m x 1m, are they not?
<m0nkey_> Yeah, they are.
<ali1234> trouble with minecraft is its a game that you play for hours and hours
<penguin42> hmm hang on, isn't this an arbitrary coordinate system?
<m0nkey_> I need to set-up my room scale again. Not done it since I reinstalled it. Most of what I've been playing is sit down/stand up stuff.
<ali1234> and wearing the headset for that long gets tiring
<ali1234> this is also good: http://store.steampowered.com/app/488310/Eleven_Table_Tennis_VR/
<penguin42> what headsets ar eyou using?
<m0nkey_> I can wear it for about an hour before I have to stop
<ali1234> vive
<m0nkey_> I don't normally jump on bandwagons, but VR was a particular bandwagon I had to be on :D
<ali1234> the haptics in the table tennis game are so good
<m0nkey_> Wow. How expensive is ECC DDR4?!
<ali1234> its double in price since last year
<m0nkey_> 32GB for $529 CAD
<ali1234> its because phones use DDR4 now
<ali1234> non-ECC that is
<ali1234> i paid about Â£114 for 32GB last year, it's Â£253 not
<ali1234> crashing pound didn't help either
<m0nkey_> I think I paid $200 CAD for 16GB ECC 3 years ago
<m0nkey_> 16GB now is going to cost a minimum of $300 now.
<m0nkey_> I'm putting together a parts list for my next file server.
<m0nkey_> I'm up to $900 before I've bought a case, PSU or drives.
<ali1234> why 16GB RAM for a file server?
<m0nkey_> FreeNAS
 * m0nkey_ waits for the hate
<ali1234> it needs 16GB?
<m0nkey_> ZFS baby :)
<ali1234> i wouldn't put more than 4GB in a file server
<m0nkey_> ZFS eats ram like a motherplunger.
<ali1234> i would use ext4
<m0nkey_> This is the motherboard I'm considering.. https://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813183013&ignorebbr=1
<m0nkey_> With an Intel G4400 CPU
<ali1234> how much disk space?
<m0nkey_> I'm considering buying 8 x 6TB drives
<ali1234> i would get one of these: https://www.scan.co.uk/products/asrock-j3160tm-itx-quad-core-intel-j3160-16ghz-ddr3-ddr3l-intel-hd-graphics-400-sata3-gbe-usb-30-thi
<ali1234> 2x 4TB drives and a NVMe for OS
<ali1234> and 2GB ram
<m0nkey_> lol
<m0nkey_> When I do a file server, I do a file server :D
<ali1234> i can't see the point
<ali1234> unless it is for business use
<m0nkey_> Have a little read about ZFS. That's the why for the RAM.
<m0nkey_> I know. I'm a bit of a storage whore. ZFS all the way. I got too many family photos I don't want to risk losing (and yes, it's all backed up -- including offsite backup)
<m0nkey_> I'll be quiet now :)
<ali1234> i'm not looking forward to the day when someone asks me to do data recovery on a ZFS volume
<ali1234> QNAP's non-standard EXT3-with-large-file-patches was bad enough
<m0nkey_> If it's maintained correctly. You shouldn't have to on any file system.
<ali1234> sounds like woo
<ali1234> what if i zero out the first GB of the array?
<diddledan> I can't work out whether this is a genuine inquiry or a spam/phish https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/y6UG5cUD/
<ali1234> benson smoke?
<ali1234> like benson and hedges?
<diddledan> it looks spammy a bit, with the "get back to me with your requested"
<diddledan> I don't know what "my requested" would be
<m0nkey_> Why would you zero the array?
<ali1234> m0nkey_: accidents happen
<m0nkey_> Considering there is nothing in /dev/ for ZFS, pretty hard to do. You could probably zero one drive and it survive :)
<diddledan> that's a good reason to combine the redundancy into the filesystem layer. means you never have the "array" as a single writable block
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<CoderEurope> the beat is out ! http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/08/ubuntu-17-10-beta-1-download
<CoderEurope> **beta
<diplo> Morning all
<Gargoyle> Mornin'
<Gargoyle> Anyone got lm-sensors working on a new ryzen 7 chip/mobo? Hitting lots of dead-ends on google
<diplo> Afraid not, looking at buying a ryzen box or i7 soon though
<Gargoyle> I'm very happy with the Ryzen 7 so far. But need to get case fans under control. It's whisper quiet on windows, but sounds like a 747 in Ubuntu
<Gargoyle> I heard rumours of better support for Ryzen in 4.12 kernel, so I pulled the plug and went for 17.10 beta last night. But so far, no sign of anything relating to temps or fan controls.
<diplo> Ah, well I'll be running either Ubuntu or Solus on mine as my main work horse at work - doesn't bode well as I hate having a noisey machine
<diplo> Why I don't run ubuntu on my laptop, couldn't control the fans
<Gargoyle> I have just the 6 of them! :P
<Gargoyle> 7 including GPU
<diplo> hah so very noisey :)
<diplo> https://github.com/groeck/lm-sensors - create a bug maybe ?
<diplo> https://github.com/groeck/lm-sensors/issues/16
<Gargoyle> Oh well, I suppose there is hope if someone from AMD is participating in the thread.
<Gargoyle> Just a shame that a lot of docs are pointing to lm-sensors.org... which has gone AWOL!
<Gargoyle> Gonna play in the BIOS and slow them down a bit. BBIAB
<foobarry> lovely day yesterday doing this: http://imgur.com/a/FioIv
<diplo> My kids want me to buy them one foobarry, although that looks expensive :)
<davmor2> Morning all
<foobarry> diplo: the trick is finding land you can detect on
<foobarry> its cheaper than a laptop
<foobarry> its so much fun.
<Gargoyle> Firmware update and recalibrate has reduced min duty cycle from 50% to 20%.
<Gargoyle> Not silent, but a lot better! :-)
<diplo> Firmware update ftw
<diplo> I saw a fair few people on Swanage beach doing it last weekend
<Laney> i'm actually a bit cold this morning :(
<Laney> summerrrrrrrr don't leave meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
<zmoylan-pi> first day of september, autumn is here...
 * Laney sowed some seeds at the allotment yesterday
<foobarry> pumpkin?
<foobarry> discontent?
<Laney> spinach, swede, turnip
<Laney> SST
<Laney> too late for autumn squash, for shame
<daftykins> bit nippy here too
<diddledan> ello folks
<penguin42> hey
<daftykins> \o
<daftykins> oof trainee in the coffee shop, wrong order taken
<penguin42> what did you ask for and what did you end up with?
<daftykins> just a double shot edition of what i asked for, bit weird
<daftykins> if i have a heart attack in a minute we'll know why :)
<zmoylan-pi> but now you can reach into and fix pcs without a screwdriver :-)
<daftykins> good news here, the house works are making progress so my new windows go in on Monday \o/
<daftykins> buuuut the A-frame beam up in the roof is properly nasty looking, so a structural engineer has had to be contacted to judge the condition, but that's on the insurance companies' dime so it's alright :D
<zmoylan-pi> so.... their report arriving just as the rest of the work is completed will declare the house unfit and it all starts over again...
<daftykins> yep! if he says the roof has to come down, all that bedroom insulation will be wasted :P
<zmoylan-pi> get an rv and live on the open road... :-P
<daftykins> nah i like living driving license and vehicle free
<zmoylan-pi> do you need a licence for a horse drawn caravan...
<diddledan> I've lost track of how many times I've re-run the build for gimp the past couple of days
<diddledan> my ISP must love the bandwidth I've been consuming by keeping on redownloading
<daftykins> is it not using some kinda tools where you can keep reusing, or was it due to updating?
<diddledan> the snapcraft build that allows for caching isn't working for me (SNAPCRAFT_CONTAINER_BUILDS=1)
<diddledan> so it redownloads everything from scratch each time I attempt it
<daftykins> sounds pants
<diddledan> perhaps I should set up an http cache
<daftykins> yep with your army of hardware :)
<daftykins> i'm reading through my clients' building spec for his London apartment, started looking at Cat6a vs 6 haha, decided it's not worth it though
<diddledan> cat6 should be plenty for an apartment. 6a only doubles the potential cable length limit
<daftykins> yep, well a bit more
<daftykins> my main concern was that it'd be more of a pain to work with, though
<diddledan> you don't really need it unless you're going 10GigE
<daftykins> bend radius and all that
<diddledan> either*
<daftykins> yip, and can't really justify it for future proofing either because lul 10GigE in the home within the lifetime of that build... nope
<daftykins> at first he was trying to suggest we went wireless everywhere, i shot that down with extreme prejudice immediately :>
<zmoylan-pi> but wireless is the future!!
<daftykins> i sold it to him with just one line "how much do you want to sit and sort out wireless woes?"
<diddledan> IT WORKED FINALLY! I have a build that finished
<diddledan> that was a real flubber to get working
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: ooh i sold the client on the new nokia 3310 for a spare in Spain at last :D so i get to play with one XD
<zmoylan-pi> i was so tempted to get one but have managed to avoid them so far.  that it can't run java apps is the thing that persuaded me not to get one
<zmoylan-pi> with java i can add ereader, ssh client, google maps _WITH_ streetview
<daftykins> yawn :P
 * penguin42 pats an aardvark
<zmoylan-pi> and it already is running java as it's using opera mini as it's browser, they just decided not to let any other apps run
<daftykins> ah har
<daftykins> can't imagine what level of browsing you'd attempt to do on that one
<zmoylan-pi> opera mini is fairly decent.  compresses data server side so also saves data.
<zmoylan-pi> you end up avoiding the latest all bells and whistles pages but you get the web
<zmoylan-pi> plus it does rss nicely
 * davmor2 watches as the aardvark rolls up into a ball and targets penguin42 repeatedly
 * zmoylan-pi wonders wether to dial rspca or rspcp...
<penguin42> it seems a reasonably happy aardvark
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: how else do you play catch with an aardvark?
<zmoylan-pi> carefully? :-)
<daftykins> do you want ants? because that's how you get them
<daftykins> *and* get rid of them :D
<penguin42> only problem is that the initrd's are slowly getting bigger (zz had a big jump for no apparent reason) - and that means my /boot is now almost always full on updates
#ubuntu-uk 2017-09-02
 * m0nkey_ tickles diddledan 
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<brobostigon> https://pastebin.com/Wfy36UYY anyone recognise that error?
<Azelphur> brobostigon: yep, your USB device/port/hub has a case of the dead.
<Azelphur> I get that intermittently because the hub I use is dead, need to replace it
<brobostigon> other usb devices seem to work, like flash drives etc,
<brobostigon> let me test
<zmoylan-pi> the device wants more power than the others?
<brobostigon> said device is plugged directly into said machine not via a hub, except for the hub built into the machine internally.
<brobostigon> the device in question is my lg g watch, my intention was to test asteroidos on it.
<Nokaji> Following a higlhy successful reinstall (copied over .xxx files), I have two proggies that bog down the system. 1/Libre Office Writer hangs frquently for multi-seconds or blacks out (usually recovers, to hang again), and Golden-Dictionary works at times but at some point will endlesly write to my swap file, which I can watch rising in terms of GBs! - Any ideas fellas, maybe a complete reinstall of those proggies with deletion of any source files or is
<Nokaji> more needed here?
<Nokaji> rebootig - will see if reinatall of goldendict helped but I'd like to understand the issue as well ...
<Nokaji> goldendict reinstalled, needed a reboot for some reason, ... swap file still at 00.0kb (for now)
<zmoylan-pi> fingers crossed...
<Nokaji> it's such a light-weight proggie - can't imagine why it would write 7~8GB of data inside mins/secs
<zmoylan-pi> bitcoin mining? :-P
<Nokaji> just leaving it open for now, will 'work it' if it survies that test
<Nokaji> it loks up dictionaries online
<Nokaji> looks
<Nokaji> or did I have to download the dictionaries??
<Nokaji> seems goldendict likes to lock-up when being used, machine practically froze for 15 mins, requiring a forced reboot
<Nokaji> could see the HDD light glowng for some time prior
<daftykins> neat
<MooDoo> howdy all
<daftykins> \o
#ubuntu-uk 2017-09-03
<m0nkey_> Guys, I need a new router. Suggestions?
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> it must have blinky lights! :-P
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BeBox#/media/File:Pc_005.jpg those are blinky lights, :)
<zmoylan-pi> i was thinking more... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtlBZx0yV_M
<brobostigon> :D
<brobostigon> good film too, :)
<zmoylan-pi> back when hollywood could make comedies
<brobostigon> oh yes.
<diddledan> bleeping, and flashing, and bleeping
<penguin42> ?
<raymondillo> has the login protocol changed in the last few weeks? my nick will not login via erc on freenode
<diddledan> raise your hands if you're a freenode staff?
<brobostigon> penguin42: zmoylan-pi linked to this earlier, which diddledan is quoting from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtlBZx0yV_M
<penguin42> brobostigon: Ah!
<brobostigon> :)
<diddledan> who misses the days that AMD chips were drop-in compatible with intel sockets
<penguin42> diddledan: When was that?
<diddledan> 90s
<penguin42> I don't remember those
<diddledan> penguin42: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socket_7
<penguin42> diddledan: Interesting, I had an early Pentium 90 - I suspect it might have been the earlier Socket5
<raymondillo> Is anyone here using erc to access irc on freenode?
<raymondillo> thanks bye
<diddledan> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-41140621
<daftykins> shame
<zmoylan-pi> maybe the north koreans just went a little nuts in the gift shop... :-P http://englishrussia.com/2011/06/22/the-russian-atomic-weapon-museum/
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: where do you find these random links?!
<zmoylan-pi> when you have insomnia you browse the web a lot... i've seen the whole thing 2-3 times by now... :-P
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> even the bit under the rug?
<zmoylan-pi> we don't speak about under the rug links in company...
<penguin42> especially the bit under the rug
<zmoylan-pi> besides you can take any ordinary or extraordinary thing, add russia and bingo. you just made it weirder/better/bigger...
<diddledan> in soviet russia, extraordinary weirdens you
<diddledan> that dude Jesus! https://twitter.com/rechelon/status/904417094904700928
<diddledan> omg, oracle silently laid-off all remaining Solaris staff
<diddledan> ref: https://twitter.com/webmink/status/904417585810333696
<daftykins> i dunno they probably did at least ask them into their office or say 'check your email tomorrow morning' ;)
<penguin42> one assumes they have someone to do security fixes - right?
<daftykins> they'll just phone up zmoylan-pi
<zmoylan-pi> have hammer, will travel...
<daftykins> that's the spirit!
<zmoylan-pi> remember the good old days when leaks were from usb drives found in the back of taxis... :-/ https://gizmodo.com/thousands-of-job-applicants-citing-top-secret-us-govern-1798733354?IR=T
<penguin42> it doesn't seem to take much to screw up perms on s3 does it
<ali1234> S3 is ridiculously complicated
<zmoylan-pi> it's the cloud, it makes everything easier :-P
<daftykins> friend of mine who's a dev for a large US firm said they didn't want to keep paying in-house IT support anymore, so moved all their stuff to Azure... and now pay more per month for that
<zmoylan-pi> but some beancounter feels happier giving the money to what they think is a professional external company rather than the weirdo with the desk covered in firefly action figures...
<daftykins> :>
<zmoylan-pi> have you seen how shiny the brochure was?
<daftykins> maybe the get-to-know-you party was that great
<diddledan> up town girl. she's been livin in her uptown world.
<daftykins> eh?
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCuMWrfXG4E
<daftykins> i'm not convinced those fellas are undoing nuts for a legitimate repair!
<daftykins> and yeah i know it, wondered what prompted it :D
<diddledan> just got it in my head
<daftykins> in your head, in your head... now you have to play The Cranberries
<diddledan> this is so cute: https://twitter.com/FluffSociety/status/904453271917559808
<daftykins> :D
<zmoylan-pi> we have a family of foxes in the garden... full grown adults are not so fluffy
<diddledan> the minellium bug was a hoax, right? https://twitter.com/ProfDaveAndress/status/904454705345990656
<daftykins> yowzer
<daftykins> i'll just send my programs to Initech to be sorted, there's this guy Peter that works there...
<m0nkey_> Anyone know anything about these APU2 boards from PCEngines?
<zmoylan-pi> there was no millenium, it was all a hoax by the beer companies to sell booze...
 * diddledan spanks his m0nkey_ 
<m0nkey_> Indeed
<m0nkey_> You know anything about them diddledan ?
<diddledan> I looked at them on and off but not enough that I can say much about them
<diddledan> I liked that pfsense supported them OOTB
<m0nkey_> I'm considering getting one to replace the Ubiquiti ER PoE
<daftykins> APUs you say o0
<diddledan> you're not getting on well with the ER?
<daftykins> maybe switch to the Casualty
<m0nkey_> UDP reordering bug causing packet loss when using UDP
<diddledan> ew
<diddledan> that's nassy
<diddledan> does anyone know of an OSS youtube downloading prog? I don't mind cli
<m0nkey_> Considering I can get one for $161 USD, not including tax & shipping is pretty decent.
<m0nkey_> youtube-dl
<m0nkey_> https://rg3.github.io/youtube-dl/
<zmoylan-pi> i normally use extensions for web browsers for downloading youtube
<diddledan> ta
<m0nkey_> What about this for a pfSense box? https://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182855&ignorebbr=1
<daftykins> pricey
<daftykins> i got one of these on a mates recommendation for a clients' special holiday home setup - https://linitx.com/product/linitx-apu-1d-3nicusbrtc-pfsense-embed-firewall-kit-red/14094
<daftykins> oh now i've linked that i see what you asked above m0nkey_ - haha
<m0nkey_> I just asked about the APU2 boards..
<daftykins> yeah i've been drinking wine, what can i say
<daftykins> we talking home or office setup?
<m0nkey_> Home
<m0nkey_> Barely none of the off the shelf routers at Best Buy have VLAN support. I have a requirement for at least 1 VLAN.
<m0nkey_> (well, two if you count VLAN 1)
<m0nkey_> I did try the 'router-on-a-stick' method with a HP thin client, but for some reason the thin-client doesn't support VLANs on it's broadcom NIC.
<zmoylan-pi> i'm sure the staff were really helpful... :-P
<daftykins> what's the VLAN situation?
<m0nkey_> It's because of work
<m0nkey_> I put the work laptop on it's own vlan, because of the pre-install corporate spy ware
<daftykins> ah so with one of the little APU2 setups you could just use the third NIC
<daftykins> but mmm i'm not wholly convinced of the performance using the SD card based install, truth be told i'm going down to the Spain pad of my clients in October to finally put the machine into use again
<m0nkey_> If I get the APU2, I'll run it on a mSATA SSD.
<daftykins> that's a lot of money for a router you still have to add a wifi access point to (unless you put in some super pricey card)
<m0nkey_> I already have an AP
<m0nkey_> This looks like what I would want.. https://corpshadow.biz/bizstore/apu-combo-kits/apu2c4-red-combo-kit.html#/217-enclosure_type_-not_labelled/235-storage_-16gb_msata_ssd_module
<daftykins> looks identical :)
<m0nkey_> Or something like this, just an HP thin client with a 4-port Intel NIC.. www.ebay.ca/itm/HP-T620-Quad-Core-5-Port-Gigabit-Firewall-Router-64Bit-4GB-RAM-16GB-SSD-pfSense-/322696396137
<daftykins> :S
<daftykins> how fast is your connection btw?
<m0nkey_> 120/20
<diddledan> https://www.picocluster.com/products/picocenter-48
<diddledan> that's a lotta pi
<penguin42> m0nkey_: It's worth looking at some of the fanless PCs now - the bottom end fanless celeries
<m0nkey_> has to be a very recent celeron, since pfSense 2.5 will have a hard requirement for AES-NI
<penguin42> m0nkey_: Right, something like https://www.scan.co.uk/products/asrock-j3160tm-itx-quad-core-intel-j3160-16ghz-ddr3-ddr3l-intel-hd-graphics-400-sata3-gbe-usb-30-thi
<penguin42> (That's ITX I'm sure there are prebuilt etc etc)
<penguin42> m0nkey_: and that has aes-ni: http://ark.intel.com/products/91533/Intel-Celeron-Processor-J3160-2M-Cache-up-to-2_24-GHz
<m0nkey_> Wow, that board isn't even sold in Canada.
 * penguin42 assumes there are similar
<diddledan> how about even cheaper : https://www.scan.co.uk/products/asrock-d1800m-integrated-dual-core-intel-celeron-j1800-241ghz-soc-ddr3-ddr3l-on-board-intel-hd-graph
<penguin42> diddledan: Doesn't have aes-ni
<m0nkey_> Or I get the ER-X which doesn't have the UDP reordering bug.
<penguin42> what's that?
<m0nkey_> https://www.amazon.ca/Ubiquiti-ER-X-UBIQUITI-Router-Black/dp/B0144R449W/
<m0nkey_> It's like the ER PoE which I have.
<penguin42> no I mean what bug?
<m0nkey_> Packet loss when using UDP
<penguin42> that's a cute beast
<penguin42> m0nkey_: on what platform?
<m0nkey_> For example, If I use OpenVPN using UDP I get a ton of loss when doing heavy traffic
<m0nkey_> It's a MIPS64, running EdgeOS which is a fork of Vyatta.
<penguin42> oh then who knows :-)
<m0nkey_> What about one of these? https://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA66K4N17537
<m0nkey_> Put in a Pentium G4400 in it
<m0nkey_> I already have DDR3 RAM and an SSD I could put in it.
