#ubuntu-uds-community-1 2013-08-27
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/community-1/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/08/27/%23ubuntu-uds-community-1.html
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/community-1/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/08/27/%23ubuntu-uds-community-1.html
<Delfino1983> hello people
<Delfino1983> it's start o'clock?
<TigerLuo> Hi
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-1 to: Track: Community | Community Roundtable - Tue | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/meeting/21900/community-roundtable-tue/
 * skellat is ready and waiting for the first round of community roundtable this vUDS
<dholbach> who wants to join the hangout?
<skellat> o/
<skellat> smkellat@gmail.com
<dholbach> anyone else interested in joining in on the hangout?
<dholbach> any more topics for the community roundtable?
<rrnwexec> i can join too
<rrnwexec> topic: Planet Ubuntu staleness
<skellat> And my local broadband is deciding to fail on me so I'm out
 * skellat trundles off to go deal with the networking and other plumbing & disengages from vUDS
<rrnwexec> not seeing a link in G+
<dholbach> rrnwexec, sent you the link in pm
<dholbach> or PM me your email address and I'll invite you
<ballock> I am interested to hear why Mark referred to Fedora and Tizen as 'being competition' and 'spreading FUD'.
<dholbach> link to the bugs: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community-website
<Ampelbein> That sounds like you are participating from on board the ISS ;-)
<dholbach> haha
 * dholbach hugs Ampelbein
 * Ampelbein hugs dholbach
<dholbach> :)
<linuxtech> Where are the slides, I wanted to see the detail on one of them?
<ballock> ok, thanks
<Ampelbein> When removing blogs I think the first question should be: Is the blog still relevant to Ubuntu? If yes, then keep it, despite the author is not a member.
<rrnwexec> sorry guys, i'll try to type
<rrnwexec> there are bloggers that have openly expressed their resignation
<asomething> it would be pretty simple to parse http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~planet-ubuntu/config/main/view/head:/config.ini and check for ubuntu membership
<rrnwexec> i would be happy to manually review the list, and/or ask people to re-opt-in to the Planet blogroll
<dholbach> asomething, I can't remember what exactly the problem was, but I think there was something with Nick names or team blogs or some such
<hggdh> beware of censorship, or looking like it.
<dholbach> hggdh, +1
<rrnwexec> this isn't censorship
<rrnwexec> i have some notes on the etherpad on how we might make the decision
<rickspencer3> tbh, I only get bummed out when people post negative stuff
<hggdh> rickspencer3: but being negative, I think, is also important. It gives us a chance to think and review
<hggdh> (I do not like it either, but I respect their opinion)
<rickspencer3> hggdh, oh, if it's from an active community member, then I care what they think, negative or not
<hggdh> rickspencer3: ack, and agreed :-)
<rickspencer3> but if it's someone who has left the community, I don't really want to be exposed to their negativity
<rickspencer3> if they aren't active and also not negative, their presence doesn't much bother me
<cielak> I remember one particular post I read some longer time ago - don't remember whose it was - which was a very clear offensive FUD from someone who switched projects a long time ago
<hggdh> if someone has left the community, then s/he should not be in Planet. The question, then, goes back to what is "left the community"
<dholbach> asomething, yes, the problem is that "nick" is not necessarily Launchpad ID
<hggdh> I guess I am a member of Planet, but I have never blogged (there or elsewhere)
<linuxtech> Not all of us blog on a regular basis.
<dholbach> asomething, but yeah, we could probably get a bit closer by using "name" and checking in the list of people in ~ubuntumembers
<asomething> dholbach, i see but if nothing else it would give a shot list to look over
<dholbach> yes, that's right
<dholbach> asomething, let's have a chat about it later on
<beuno> hggdh, it is very clearly defined that people who are no longer in the ubuntu members LP team, should not be on planet
<beuno> there's just now automated cleanup process
<beuno> it's manual, someone just does it whenever it itches
<jono> ballock, hey
<jono> ballock, you are running the enterprise roundtable?
<ballock> jono: I can't run it with Google+ if that's what you mean, can only join.
<ballock> but yeah, I'm there
<jono> ballock, can you join the hangout session though?
<jono> I am asking who is going to be on the hangout?
<ballock> Hope so :)
<ballock> there's Ove from my organization
<jono> ballock, can you create a hangout on air session and I will add it to summit?
<ballock> nope
<jono> why?
<ballock> my G+ account has no access to creating Google on air hangouts
<ballock> some privacy stuff
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-1 to: Track: Community | Hardware requirements of apps | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/meeting/21933/community-1308-app-story-hardware-requirements/
<jono> ballock, eh? all G+ accounts can create Google On Air hangouts
<jono> go to https://plus.google.com/u/0/hangouts
<jono> and click the Start a Hangout On Air button
<ballock> not the corporate ones
<jono> ok, but you can join a hangout?
<ballock> those can be decided by the corporation
<ballock> yup
<jono> ok
<jono> I will set it up in a few mins
<jono> weird, we have a corporate G+ acct at Canonical and we can run hangouts on air
<jono> ahhh so you mean corporate policy can turn them off
<workingwriter> BTW, as a new person, I don't see how to become a member on the front page of community.ubuntu.com.
<ballock> now you got it
<jono> ballock, ahhh gotcha :-)
<jono> ballock, join https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/edfad062d74d819880c39bfb05cf2aa674ea3420?authuser=0&hl=en
<dholbach> jono, ballock: JFYI you're in community 2
<jono> dholbach, yup
<jono> moving there
<CheeseBurg> Where is the etherpad?
<rsalveti> http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-1308-community-1308-app-story-hardware-requirements
<dholbach> any more input from folks in here?
<CheeseBurg> What if the user has multiple touch screens. Like a laptop where the keyboard is a touchscreen.
<dholbach> fugue88, do you want to join in on the hangout - you seem to type a lot?
<fugue88> dholbach: nah.
<dholbach> fugue88, gotcha - I didn't even know you used this nick here :)
<fugue88> :)
<CheeseBurg> Ok a more realistic question, what about walcom tablet. Some of them have more features than a mouse so is that a special case?
<fugue88> CheeseBurg: What extra features does a wacom tablet have that a mouse or touchscreen doesn't?
<rickspencer3> the goal is to filter the list of apps to those which the user has the capabilties to run, right?
<rickspencer3> I think that wacom tablet gets a bit fine grained
<rickspencer3> like, you would never see the app if you didn't have the tablet plugged in
<rickspencer3> I think at the highest level is phone vs. tablet vs. desktop
<cjwatson> wacom is probably on the edge; I can imagine pro graphics tools that you really can't make use of without a proper tablet
<rickspencer3> cjwatson, right, but you might not have it plugged in
<cjwatson> I don't think it's a huge deal to get it exactly right up front as long as the schema is extensible
<rickspencer3> when you are browsing apps
<cjwatson> rickspencer3: Yep, dholbach raised the matter of removable devices earlier
<rickspencer3> I think that you need know that the user is on a desktop, so *could* make use of a wacom tablet app
<dholbach> would anyone like to join the hangout? :)
<cjwatson> I said I'll need to look into the PackageKit API to see if there's a way that I can interpose a "you seem to be missing <hardware> - are you sure?" question, perhaps
<fugue88> dholbach: What happens if we include an item in the schema, and later decide to remove it?
<dholbach> maybe it'd be good not to list "needs: <some device>" but more something like "needs: <functionality>" (like 'pointing device' or 'drawing pad' or some such)
<rickspencer3> o/
<rickspencer3> I'd be happy to join
<fugue88> fugue88: Okay, I'll join for a minute.
<CheeseBurg> fugue88: The pen can have 3 to 6 button that do special command on applications like Photoshop. And the base has 3 - 7 with some fancy thingys. I don't use one but my artist friends do.
<CheeseBurg> Also when I say walcom I mean any drawing tablets
<cjwatson> Right, I think we should avoid being brand-specific if we can
<CheeseBurg> Also what about TV apps?
<dholbach> CheeseBurg, want to join in on the hangout too?
<CheeseBurg> I wish lol. Unfortunately I am at work so I can't.
<dholbach> (totally fine if you don't want to - just asking :-))
<dholbach> ok, no worries
<dholbach> :)
<CheeseBurg> Most laptops have both touchscreens and gps now
<CheeseBurg> Windows 8 laptops
<ralsina_> screen size is not all that good to tell form factors apart. I have a phone and a notebook with the exact same screen size in pixels. Are we talking about screen sizes in cm/inches?
<dholbach> ralsina_, want to join in on the call as well? :)
<ralsina_> dholbach:my mic is in the fritz today :-(
<dholbach> gotcha
<ralsina_> dholbach:I am getting a new one later
<dholbach> cool
<ralsina_> Also, keyboards can be attached or detached at any point, they are not a device property
<ralsina_> some developers may want to make the tablet version pay and the phone version free (I've seen it in android and iOS), so a maximum screen size may make sense
<ralsina_> yay!
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/community-1/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/08/27/%23ubuntu-uds-community-1.html
<fugue88> o/
<ralsina_> Ironic? ME???
<fugue88> :D
<istimsak> Why doesn't xubuntu have a Mac version
<istimsak> Are there any online ubuntu locos? For those who don't have the luxury to travel.
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-1 to: Track: Community | Policy for including click packages in Ubuntu Touch images by default | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/meeting/21931/community-1308-policy-of-default-click-packages/
<jdstrand> dholbach: I think you have your youtube window up along with your google+-- massive looping
<jdstrand> well, I don't know who does
<jdstrand> oh, haha
<jdstrand> it was me. durr
 * dholbach hugs jdstrand
<jdstrand> dholbach: sorry! :)
<dholbach> jdstrand, want to join in?
<lool> I think we at least need to be able to upload the app
<lool> like, in case it's horribly broken or has security issues or something
<lool> if it has any issue, it's part of an ubuntu image so we need to be able to fix it
<lool> so we need some shared ownership for preinstalled apps
<dholbach> can you all please help taking notes? http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-1308-community-1308-policy-of-default-click-packages
<asomething> if they'll be installed by default, it seems like there should be some kind of MIR-like check
<rickspencer3> o/
<lool> dholbach: if there's space left, happy to join a bit
<ogra_> click on desktop will fall under the same restrictions
<dholbach> jdstrand, I think you mic was a bit low
<dholbach> mic volume
<dholbach> but you only spoke very briefly, so I might be wrong :)
<jdstrand> thanks. I don't know why it does that sometimes
<jdstrand> (it was)
<rsalveti> let me jump to the accessibility session for a while
<rickspencer3> dholbach, can I join briefly? I think I can represent slangasek's concerns a bit until he gets here
<rsalveti> we got enough people in here :-)
<dholbach> rickspencer3, sure
<ogra_> pitti, sw center packages dont need to be free sw
<pitti> ogra_: right, but I thought this session is about the (small) subset which are installed by default?
<ogra_> ah, right, indeed
<lool> jdstrand: toolbox banner for your name?
<pitti> but even if they aren't free, they still need to have a proper license and QA
<ogra_> for the default image definitely
<lool> I dont hear cjwatson
<ogra_> i do
<lool> for some strange reason I guess
<ogra_> i dont see him
<lool> out of all the streams, it's the onlyone I dont hear; weird
<ogra_> well, i see him, but he is blue in the face and doesnt move at all
<dholbach> ogra_, maybe he unplugged the webcam?
<ogra_> ah, that turms people blue, right :)
<dholbach> :)
<pitti> ogra_: for the default image I'd require DFSGness really
<ogra_> pitti, for the nexus image probably ...
<ogra_> pitti, the majority of images we release will hopefully be for OEMs :)
<pitti> ogra_: sure, but these aren't "ubuntu" images and thus not under our jurisdiction anyway
<pitti> i. e. for those it's the OEM's job to ensure they have a license to ship their default apps
<ogra_> i agree the freely installable nexus image needs to come in the same way a desktop iso comes
<ogra_> but the policy we define here will affect OEM images as well
<ogra_> and there might be something in the sw-center thats nonfree that they want to ship
<xnox> slangasek: e.g. facebook is in Apple Store, yet it is still pre-installed as well.
<slangasek> right
<aquarius> Presumably if you decide to package my app in the default image (and I agree, and we have a good relationship) and then that relationship sours somehow, there is nothing stopping me publishing that app *again* in Ubuntu Software Centre under a different name?
<beuno> aquarius, correct
<aquarius> The "go back to the pre-installed version if you remove the updates" thing is how Android works with pre-installed apps, too -- if Facebook was pre-shipped on your phone, you can remove the updates to it but you can't remove *it*.
<xnox> cjwatson: will that share data though, I'd be surprised to have to login again if this dual-app is facebook.
<aquarius> This conversation seems to be about people who Ubuntu trust enough to have their stuff in the default image but have since decided that they're unhappy about that? (I mean, otherwise we'd just say "go ahead and publish updates to your pre-installed apps on your own schedule", which is (as far as I know) what other platforms do.)
<aquarius> I love that Dropping Letters is the example of an uncooperative upstream. Thanks, dudes. ;-)
<cjwatson> xnox: Yes
<cjwatson> xnox: Data location is independent of app unpack location
<cjwatson> aquarius: android> indeed, that's why I more or less assumed it would be an acceptable approach :)
<cjwatson> aquarius: I don't think it's about having decided we or they are unhappy; but rather that we want to make sure that the testing (etc.) that goes into preinstalled apps pre-release also applies to updates
<aquarius> cjwatson, but com.ubuntu.* is for stuff *written by* Ubuntu, not *blessed* by Ubuntu, right? I mean, will a default Facebook app (if one happens) be under com.ubuntu?
<asomething> as for the social piece, is there any plans for including core app devs into ubuntu governance? obviously they qualify for membership, but is there anything like DMB for commit access to the core apps?
<cjwatson> aquarius: Probably not.  I certainly don't think we should have a policy that goes "only stuff in com.ubuntu is eligible to be preinstalled"
<cjwatson> So it's true that we don't have a namespacing in the app store that's exactly what pitti's getting at
<cjwatson> To me that kind of thing seems more like a tag we might apply after the fact that would be searchable via solr
<pitti> I'm less concerned about the mechanics of that, but I am concerned about having some way to mark apps as "meets ubuntu standards" (DFSG, QA) and only consider default apps from that pool
<asomething> most of the current core apps also have "ubuntu" right in their names. so they certainly blessed by the project
<ogra_> asomething, thats probably beyond the session topic, but surely a good question for #ubuntu-touch :)
<pitti> I guess some kind of "ubuntu app archive" might be important for actually building the images (pulling from third-party servers might be tricky), but that's a technical implementation detail
<slangasek> cjwatson: so in fact, I was seeing it the other way, that if com.ubuntu is the namespace for trusted apps, the way we get an app blessed for preinstallation is copying it into the com.ubuntu namespace
<cjwatson> lool: wow.  you may not be able to hear me, but HOLY SHIT I can hear you
<dholbach> lool, your mic volume is quite high
<lool> sorry
<dholbach> :-)
<slangasek> haha
<ogra_> lol
<cjwatson> pitti: I think it needs to be a tag approach rather than a separate repository, really
<pitti> sure
<cjwatson> slangasek: I had certainly been envisaging the namespace as indicating origin rather than signed-off-by
<slangasek> ok
<beuno> yes, me too
<slangasek> I don't feel strongly about this point
<beuno> origin
<pitti> I'd just like to have a reasonable interpretation of "official ubuntu images can only include stuff from ubuntu" for click
<pitti> i. e. on the official ISOs we must not enable PPAs and similar
<slangasek> I do think we need to preserve the upstream's capability of updating the app via a different "channel" than whatever is used for updates to the preinstalled app
<pitti> likewise on touch images we mustn't include software which we haven't vetted
<cjwatson> preinstallations currently happen via that hacky directory on people.c.c
<ogra_> pitti, we try the same for touch ... but PPAs are so sticky nowadays
<cjwatson> so we could just carry on doing something like that rather than preinstalling from the app store
<cjwatson> and then it's basically a matter of copying known-good versions
<cjwatson> although we don't update from there, so maybe that's no good
 * slangasek nods
<ogra_> well, as long as the updates then dont come with a different app with the same name ...
<pitti> I do agree that they should be able to get updated just like any other click app
<pitti> (cf. vetting the app and its upstream initially)
<lool> cjwatson: +1
<xnox> jono: we'll fork.
<xnox> beuno: and more people upload updates.
<xnox> beuno: we'd want to share the updates.
<asac> i would prefer if upstream does the updates
<asac> :)
<xnox> asac: but i still want to be able to unbreak my phone as a core-dev.
<asac> or at least allow them to care ontheir own if they want to
<xnox> asac: yeah, not exclusive.
<ogra_> xnox, pfft, who cares about you as a core-dev ... we are hopefully the smallest minority of ubuntu touch users soon :)
<cjwatson> putting testing requirements in place isn't mutually exclusive with giving upstream control
<xnox> ogra_: =)
<cjwatson> we can give them control within a framework that requires quality
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-1 to: Track: Community | Canonical Community Team Feedback Session | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/meeting/21945/canonical-community-team-feedback-session/
<ogra_> we are currently already getting them to write tests ... we should just cultivate that habit more
<asac> yeah true
<ogra_> not necessarily through policy
<slangasek> no, absolutely through policy :)
<ogra_> but imho each app we have should at some point have its own tests
<slangasek> maybe in other ways too, but it should be required by policy
<ogra_> including the store apps from third parties
<cjwatson> slangasek: agreed
<lool> I kind of feel that if we say we'll review updates in a speedy manner, it's ok to gatekeep updates to preinstalled apps all the time and allow upstreams to
 * xnox <3 community writting autopilot tests for ubiquity =))))
<lool> easily push updates
<lool> not as easily as to not preinstalled apps, but almost
<cjwatson> lool: like I said, I don't know that the update gatekeeping has to be manual
<cjwatson> depends on how much we decide we trust the testing rigour
<lool> indeed
<pitti> I think it's ok to just reserve the possibility to stop/block/fix them; not necessarily having to gatekeep each single update
<jdstrand> there could be conditions that redflag for manual review but otherwise are automatic
<cjwatson> something like that, yeah
<ogra_> btw, do we have a rollback story for slipped through bad updates ?
<jdstrand> well, we have a method to ship an empty package. we could just grab a known good package and rev the version
<sergiusens> lool: ogra_ yes
<ogra_> (beyond, grab the last click package from the author and upload it with a newer version)
<sergiusens> ogra_: oh, then no
<aquarius> cjwatson, surely Ubuntu would already have a pretty high confidence in the testing rigour of an app otherwise it wouldn't have qualified for the default image in the first place? :)
<beuno> right,  what cjwatson said
<beuno> we have a story to remove malicous apps
<beuno> but not dowgrade
<cjwatson> I don't think we have the same "versions must go forward" constraint for click packages
<cjwatson> necessarily
<sergiusens> ogra_: that was one of the topics discussed
<cjwatson> I can't remember where that argument wound up :)
<beuno> cjwatson, we've decided we do
<rickspencer3> hi aquarius o/
<cjwatson> beuno: ah, ok
<beuno> to make it easier on the client
<aquarius> heya rickspencer3 :)
<cjwatson> (that was actually my preferred answer but I thought I'd been overruled)
<cjwatson> aquarius: quite :)
<jdstrand> cjwatson: oh interesting-- that is an assumption I had, but yes, we haven't defined what updates look like yet :)
<rickspencer3> beuno, omg, does that mean it will be hard to revert click packages?
<rickspencer3> please please please tell me it will be easy to revert
<beuno> rickspencer3, you can uninstall an update easily
 * lool coughs
<beuno> this is more about the appstore pushing an older version and the client downgradng
<ogra_> beuno, without uninstalling the app ?
<beuno> ogra_, sure, the user can uninstall an upgrade easily
<beuno> we keep arpound the folders for the previous versions
<cjwatson> err
<beuno> so it's just changing a symlink
<beuno> unless things have changed?
 * rickspencer3 braces
<cjwatson> that's only because garbage-collection is unimplemented
<aquarius> all previous versions are kept in perpetuity? I am surprised at that
<rickspencer3> well, at least we could keep around the last version?
<aquarius> aha, cjwatson is also surprised at it ;)
<beuno> aquarius, not forever  :)
<ogra_> aquarius, ++
<beuno> we haven't done the work
<cjwatson> we can't carry on keeping all old versions
<ogra_> right
<beuno> but garbage collection doesn't mean everything
<rickspencer3> cjwatson, tell that to the kernel team
<cjwatson> last version - maybe.  might depend on size since some apps are huge
<beuno> we can keep the last one, we get to decide
 * rickspencer3 ducks
<beuno> right
<ogra_> but will we keep the "last good" version around ?
<ogra_> bah, beuno is to fast for me
<aquarius> cjwatson, gotta sort of be prepared for that anyway with the multiuser case, though, no?
<cjwatson> click has no idea what is good
<jdstrand> well, last one is different then last known good
<cjwatson> aquarius: multiuser's different
<rickspencer3> my concern is that our inability to revert causes a lot of pain and slowness when things go badly
<cjwatson> aquarius: in that case there are references for each user who has it installed
<YokoZar> I believe you are in fact live jono
<cjwatson> and we absolutely keep referenced versions
<sethj> You're live
<philipballew> Loud and clear Jono
<cjwatson> anyway, yeah, we're being kicked out
<beuno> rickspencer3, you mean like you get an update and it sucks, and you as a user want to go back to the previous version?
 * ogra_ guesses we should move to #ubuntu-touch 
<jono> community team feedback hangout: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/cce17ac5775c2cc2a27eb5dfb3e9f490155cf739?authuser=0&hl=en
<rickspencer3> beuno, like we have a buggy update in the development release
<jdstrand> rickspencer3: well, even if it is as bad as picking an old one and revving the version, it is still loads better than anything we have with deb because there aren't inter-app dependencies
<rickspencer3> the dashboard turns red
<rickspencer3> we can't just revert the package
<jdstrand> but it would be nice to not have to do that
<beuno> rickspencer3, you version forward
<rickspencer3> I'm not sure what we care about in terms of applications already  on the device
<beuno> right
<cjwatson> what jdstrand said.  the reason you can't necessarily do that with .deb is that there might be things like automatic shlibdeps around
<rickspencer3> right
 * beuno moves to #ubuntu-touch
<dholbach> any feedback on how the Canonical Community Team works?
<rickspencer3> g+ and reddit both have tons of "community" content, but it tends to be outside the realm of the CoC
<rrnwexec> perhaps the task of communicating with Ubuntu "consumers" ought to be delegated more to local groups
<rrnwexec> (sorry i'm late)
<asomething> not sure if I have any bright ideas for it, but one thing that might be worth thinking about is how to bring together people working on disparate aspects of ubuntu
<asomething> most contributing packaging work for instance probably don't interact with touch core app devs
<asomething> and touch core app devs might not know anyone working on say mir
<rickspencer3> "unrelenting"?
<rickspencer3> lol
<rickspencer3> YokoZar o/
<YokoZar> High five?
<rickspencer3> do you think it makes a difference that Canonical has so many developers working on Ubuntu now?
<jcastro> hi!
<jcastro> can I join the hangout?
<YokoZar> rickspencer3: I do think there's some selection effect where a good chunk of the people who were super into ubuntu core bits in the beginning are now Canonical employees ;)
<rickspencer3> fair enough
<rickspencer3> but I remember when I started at Canonical, the team of paid developers was much much smaller
<rickspencer3> I can't help wonder how that impacts the community interactions
<YokoZar> For sure.  My feeling is that Canonical has spread a bit more widely, doing lots of things with the extra staff rather than putting more staff on the same things
<jcastro> dholbach: can I join the discussion in the G+?
<YokoZar> So the perception is more "Canonical is doing more things" than "there's all these more canonical people on this one thing"
<dholbach> jcastro, sure
<hggdh> communications, communications, communications (following rrnwexec's comment)
<linuxtech> I would like to see someone take the lead on making sure we have latest stable releases of some server software.  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-server/2013-August/006703.html
<linuxtech> Robie Basak agreed with me!
<asomething> i though that was gotten rid of last uds?
<dholbach> philipballew, and call it community-1308-<something>
<philipballew> will do dholbach
<dholbach> rock on
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/community-1/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/08/27/%23ubuntu-uds-community-1.html
#ubuntu-uds-community-1 2013-08-28
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/community-1/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/08/28/%23ubuntu-uds-community-1.html
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-1 to: Track: Community | Ubuntu Advocacy Kit 1.0 Release | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/meeting/21957/community-s-uak-first-release/
<dholbach> anyone here to discuss UAK v1.0?
<dholbach> hey rrnwexec
<rrnwexec> good morning everyone. we'll get started shortly :)
<dholbach> anyone else? it'd be great to have you in the hangout
<linuxtech> Good Morning!
<dholbach> session notes here: http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-1308-community-s-uak-first-release
<dholbach> linuxtech, interested in joining the hangout?
<linuxtech> No thanks, I'm not setup to run video without spending time...
<rrnwexec> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-s-uak-first-release
<rrnwexec> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ubuntu%20Advocacy%20Kit%20%28UAK%29/Installing
<dholbach> any more input from IRC?
<dholbach> anyone who wants to join the hangout?
<linuxtech> dholbach: I know you have done some classroom sessions on irc on building packages, have you done it with Google Hangouts?
<dholbach> linuxtech, some youtube videos and in other formats, although they might be a bit outdated
<linuxtech> I attended some of the IRC sessions, and it helped me recently when I built mailman and got the newest release into saucy.
<linuxtech> With the help of the server team and Debian developer also!
<dholbach> awesome!
<dholbach> https://bugs.launchpad.net/loco-team-portal/+bug/1169472
<udsbotu> Launchpad bug 1169472 in LoCo Team Portal "Integrate UAK into LTP" [Wishlist,Triaged] - Assigned to Adnane Belmadiaf (daker)
<ev> would someone kindly send me the link to the hangout once we have one?
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-1 to: Track: Community | Bug Reporting workflow for end users | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/meeting/21840/community-1308-quality-reporting-bugs/
<balloons_uds> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/meeting/21857/foundations-1308-click-error-reporting/
<hggdh> the problem that spearheaded this meeting was the difficulty of casual users to report an issue (note I did not say bug)
<SergioMeneses> I lost the connection
<SergioMeneses> hggdh, too many clients?
<balloons_uds> hggdh:feel free to share opinion on that
<hggdh> my opinion on this has been clear for quite a long time -- bugs are TECHNICAL reports. Issues are user problems that may be even a bug (but most of the times are not)
<bdmurray> the +filebug change was trying to reduce reports like this https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-manager/+bug/1214712
<udsbotu> Launchpad bug 1214712 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 2" [Undecided,New]
<penguin42> bdmurray: What is +filebug?
<bdmurray> that's part of the url for filing a bug in Launchpad
<penguin42> bdmurray: Ah the one that discourages manual filing?
<hggdh> yes
<penguin42> (On mobile what type of bandwidth is a crash going to use up - might be costly on mobile tarrifs?)
<sergiusens> pitti: today we use ubuntu-bug or we just use the launchpad project
<pitti> sergiusens: yes, if you know about it that's fine (for ubuntu pkgs, not for click)
<sergiusens> pitti: oh and we do it from a host
<sergiusens> pitti: yup, I was hoping for an ubuntu-bug equivalent, but we can always do what cjwatson or xnox mentioned about just having a link in the manifest and use a host tool
<beuno> ev, connecting it to Launchpad or re-writing a bug tracker?  :)
 * sergiusens is just thinking about stuff that lands in the image by default
<pitti> sergiusens: maybe just hop into the hangout? balloons_uds ?
<balloons_uds> yes, hop in :-)
<ev> beuno: I'm afraid I've lost the context to your question
<beuno> ev, the lag is a bit of a killer for IRC. The context was with allowing to report from the appstore, splitting into it reviews and technical reports. Where would the technical reports go?
<penguin42> do you want a host-based bug-filer - plug the phone in and run something?
<penguin42> (adb like)
<ev> beuno: it would be a hyperlink to a place of the developer's choosing, rather than a form that gets filled out
<beuno> ev, ah, perfect
<beuno> pitti, we have it and it's already exposed
<beuno> sort of
<beuno> you specify it in MyApps directly
<pitti> beuno: nice :) â DONE
<beuno> not in the click package
<beuno> but, details
<bdmurray> how would a user get from the application to myapps?
<beuno> bdmurray, they wouldn't, this would be shown when navigating the apps in the store
<beuno> same as for a review
<hggdh> er. Are we also going to deal with the casual users? How do they report an issue? Where to?
<beuno> hggdh, a review
<hggdh> beuno: review?
<beuno> hggdh, yeah, ratings & reviews
<beuno> they provide feedback through there
<hggdh> and how do we route them there (wherever that is/will be)?
<beuno> hggdh, from the dash
<hggdh> beuno: so we better start advertising this... make it abundantly clear
<pitti> beuno: so I guess the $VERSION substitution in the URL would be a WI?
<beuno> pitti, yes
<hggdh> (1 )an example of abuse of the bug system: http://goo.gl/5Lzk8r
<beuno> bdmurray, for touch, it's done in the dash
<beuno> bdmurray, from the same place where you install apps
<beuno> bdmurray, people should, in theory, be able to open up the dash with their app selected
<beuno> to review
<beuno> but that needs some checking with the unity team that the URL handlers to do that have been implemented
<beuno> also, software center is being deprecated
<beuno> 14.04 is the last release of it
<beuno> it's all being moved in the dash
<hggdh> we should also try to *integrate* the user experience.
<bdmurray> beuno: thanks
<hggdh> balloons_uds: another task(?): review usage of ask.u.c, answers.lp.com, review process, etc
<hggdh> thanks, folks
<balloons_uds> hggdh:interesting, and a good point
<hggdh> balloons_uds: one of our issues is we are spread thin, and uncontrolled
<balloons_uds> perhaps some of these people official routes for people who have an issue
<hggdh> yes
<hggdh> so -- for example -- questions that start with "how to" could be routed to ask, etc, etc
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-1 to: Track: Community | Community Roundtable - Wed | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/meeting/21901/community-roundtable-wed/
<rrnwexec> hi, can someone PM me the link for the hangout?
<skellat> I am going to be text-only today as Time Warner Cable is giving me fits
<jono_> hangout link: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/f13129e20518fc6d9d5693d1a28a5d8f29c11ed8?authuser=0&hl=en
<jono_> rrnwexec, ^
<jono_> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/f13129e20518fc6d9d5693d1a28a5d8f29c11ed8?authuser=0&hl=en
<skellat> What?  I thought we finished the Approved/Unapproved issue in May!
<airurando> Has the "LoCo/Community Best Practise to share" blueprint/session been set up for Thursday?
<skellat> I had commented out a couple people who had publicly renounced membership pretty thoroughly
<skellat> Xubuntu had that discussion prior and we found Google Hangouts were the least worst option available at this time.
<skellat> Yeah, this age limit also locks out James Gifford from Ubuntu Ohio.
<airurando> skellat: have you seen http://lococouncil.ubuntu.com/2013/08/25/new-local-communities-healthcheck/ ?
<skellat> airurando: I'm looking forward to it!
<skellat> Ubuntu Ohio definitely meets the criteria for verified even under my current conservatorship
<skellat> airurando: I addressed it here: http://ohio.ubuntu-us.org/node/164
<airurando> skellat: Cool, I'll have a listen later!
<skellat> airurando: Transcript is there too
<skellat> jono: OR MY CRAPPY ISP!
<skellat> Let's move on
<aquarius> jono_, big thing you didn't mention: hangouts record the sessions and autopublish them to youtube, so UDS sessions can be watched after the fact too.
<linuxtech> Yes, IRC logs are boring but I can read faster...
<skellat> IRC Logs in Xubuntu country get interesting at meeting times
<skellat> What proposal?  The LoCo Council said to me that the Verified Teams process entered into force as of announcement.
<skellat> rrnwexec: My statement on the verified process can be found here: http://ohio.ubuntu-us.org/node/164
<asomething> is there a pad for this?
<aquarius> A proposal I saw, years and years ago (this was political, not about Ubuntu) was this: if you can get 50 people to support you, you're a chief. So if 50 people want to join your loco team, it's a loco team. This means that there can be one for geography -- Ubuntu California, Ubuntu University of California, Ubuntu Walnut Creek -- but they can be communities of interest too, so Ubuntu Birdwatchers could
<aquarius> be a loco team, or Ubuntu Game Makers, or Ubuntu English People In America, or Ubuntu Motorcyclists
<aquarius> not sure if that's a good idea or not, mind.
<asomething> sounds like people are coming up with work items, but no one is taking notes afaict
<skellat> asomething: This is a rehash of discussion from May
<linuxtech> Good luck with that in Virginia.  It seems a few people have tried to get it going without success.
<asomething> skellat, yep and the notes weren't great for that discussion either. I've heard lots of confusion on the approved/verified thing  and the regional team thing.
<skellat> asomething: When we did the distribution of people here in Ohio, regional groupings just weren't coherent enough.
<Cracknel> '
<skellat> asomething: Partly in my LoCo's case, there are economic reasons that drive this geographic dispersion.  I'll be speaking about this wearing my hat as Point of Contact/Leader at UbuCon during Ohio Linux Fest 2013 during my opening remarks.
<asomething> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21835/community-1305-enabling-local-subteams/
<skellat> asomething: We have had a few steady months of IT job losses in Ohio so I've had "Ubuntu Member" folk pass on to Ubuntu Colorado and Ubuntu Washington State.
<skellat> PLEASE AVOID September 13th-15th for scheduling as that is Ohio Linux Fest.
<linuxtech> I want to move to Colorado, where I live now is too rural for any kind of tech group.
<skellat> PLEASE AVOID September 13th as Ubuntu Ohio will be hosting UbuCon at Ohio Linux Fest with Jorge Castro speaking as well as myself, Stephen Michael Kellat
<skellat> http://ohiolinux.org/friday
<skellat> rrnwexec: Look at the map Randall: http://ohio.ubuntu-us.org/map/user
<airurando> Has the "LoCo/Community Best Practise to share" blueprint/session been set up for Thursday?  If memory serves this was proposed at the Canonical Community Team Feedback Session yesterday.
<airurando> rrnwexec: I believe the LoCo ecosphere is becoming stagnant
<linuxtech> It isn't happening here in VA.  I would like to see some hang outs weekly and other things.
<airurando> jono_: philipballew: Has the "LoCo/Community Best Practise to share" blueprint/UDS session been set up for Thursday?  If memory serves this was proposed at the Canonical Community Team Feedback Session yesterday.
<asomething> i wonder if these roundtables need to be structured better. lots of free ranging discussion not many work items
<linuxtech> It's hard to commit to a lot when time and sometimes money are issues.
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/community-1/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/08/28/%23ubuntu-uds-community-1.html
<cjwatson> asomething: I find this is a problem with roundtables in general
<asomething> cjwatson, part of the problem is that if you don't know what will be discussed before hand, it's hard to get the right people in the room
<airurando> jono_ i was just referring to the discussion in the very last minute of the Canonical Community Team Feedback Session between yourself and philipballew yesterday.  Thought something along the lines I inquired about above was to be arranged.
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-1 to: Track: Community | Ubuntu Server Guide - LTS only | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/meeting/21879/community-1308-serverguide-development/
<pmatulis> hi everybody, server guide stuff coming up next
<pmatulis> is doug smythies in the house?  :)
<dsmythies> Doug Smythie is here
<pmatulis> dsmythies: hi, coming?  :)
<dsmythies> trying to join hangout now
<pmatulis> dsmythies: alrighty
<OpenTangent> I can see you
<OpenTangent> (and hear ou)
<darlof_> can see and hear you
<JDS81> Yep, I see and hear you perfectly.
<jdrab_> yes..
<xMarkusx> Yes, I can see you :)
<FreeDumb> I can Sees you
<arges> Is the video live yet?
<number22> yep
<gQuigs1> yes
<gQuigs1> arges: you want in?
<arges> got it now
<arges> I'll listen : )
<number22> QUESTION: Can we center the video/irc client
<arges> Did audio drop? or is peter thinking?
<FreeDumb> QUESTION:  How much more Privacy does Ubuntu give in comparison to Windows
<ppetraki> pmatulis, It won't let me join, fun
 * Sweetshark is tempted to ask again about the jono bacon belly dancing performance.
<gQuigs1> I think we might have an irc channel mix up...
<Tommuj> nice app :)
<arges> pmatulis: How does one sign up to help with the server guide?
<Leonardo_Oliveir> QUESTION: When will ubuntu touch be released as a non preview version?
<ppetraki> pmatulis, +1
<sebsebseb> hi
<rbasak> number22, FreeDumb, Leonardo_Oliveir: I believe you're all in the wrong channel. See the channel topic.
<rbasak> The session in this channel is for "Ubuntu Server Guide - LTS only".
<cjwatson> I think they may be in the wrong hour
<cjwatson> Perhaps
<cjwatson> There's a jono Q&A in this channel next hour ...
<ppetraki> pmatulis, yes
<dsmythies> Peter P: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/9ec81cd4c80d2b07bf136ced9a463ba207cd63c4?authuser=0&hl=en-GB
<arges> yes
<Tommuj> Will Ubuntu Touch work on any android device?
<Sweetshark> cjwatson: jono_ is reading this channel on his session right now though.
<sebsebseb> QUESTION:  Ubuntu Edge didn't reach it's goal, but do you think something similar may get tried again in the future?
<pmatulis> for those interested in the server guide:
<pmatulis> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation/UbuntuServerGuide
<arges> pmatulis: thanks
<Tommuj> QUESTION: Will Ubuntu touch be available for any android device?
<cjwatson> jono_: Perhaps you could encourage people to move
<cjwatson> To wherever is appropriate
<jono_> cjwatson, I need this room as IRC is part of my Q+A session
<jono_> this has been scheduled at this time all week
<jono_> can you use another channel?
<cjwatson> jono_: The schedule says your session is 19:05 UTC, which is an hour from now
<jono_> cjwatson, oh sorry about that
<jono_> can you do your session then?
<jono_> I thought the session was in this slot
<cjwatson> jono_: This isn't my session, I just happened to be on this channel
<jono_> ahhhh I see
<sebsebseb> 19:16 UK time ,but it's BST  :d  not UTC here at the mometn
<cjwatson> jono_: The server people are already running their session
<jono_> cjwatson, ok we will move channels
<sebsebseb> no you normally run it when it's 7pm in UK if its' UTC or BST I think :d
<Guest56985> :D
<jono_> cjwatson, actually we can't do that
<ppetraki> there's  a nasty feedback loop, playing the same audio twice
<jono_> as people are already on the video page
<ppetraki> oh, I had the other video windows open :)
<jono_> cjwatson, ok, stopped the session
<jono_> ok everyone, apologies for the delay, can everyone join the session again in 40mins
<rbasak> pmatulis: instead of every now and then, how about dailies?
<linuxtech> Not that I can tell from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation/UbuntuServerGuide, but I would like to see DNSSEC, DANE and other related issues included in the DNS docs.
<rbasak> linuxtech: please contribute!
<linuxtech> I will if I am not restricted to only publishing it on ubuntu.
<rbasak> https://help.ubuntu.com/legal.html
<linuxtech> The video keeps dropping here...
<rbasak> "Unless stated otherwise on the front page of the document, the documents are made available under the Creative Commons ShareAlike 3.0 License (CC-BY-SA)."
<rbasak> Sounds like you can.
<rbasak> Must the source be XML?
<rbasak> If XML is causing a problem, how about transitioning to something that more people can use more easily?
<rbasak> (I believe my "live" stream is lagged by about a minute, btw)
<ppetraki> rbasak, I like that
<rbasak> It's all consumed on the web anyway.
<rbasak> Stick some markdown on github or something if that's what it takes. Or a wiki or something.
<ppetraki> rbasak, the only real targets we have are web and pdf, and the later may be debatable
<rbasak> ppetraki: I understand that changes are infrequent; but if you publish within a day when changes are made, then I think that makes the processes easier.
<rbasak> If it's impractical, then we should make it practical!
<rbasak> The server guide is just a bunch of text. Tiny as far as a computer is concerned.
<rbasak> IMHO, it's a vicious circle. XML = difficult = low contribution rate = low capacity to fix it.
<rbasak> The key is the content, not the formatting.
<rbasak> It's the content that's lacking due to the few contributors, right?
<ppetraki> yeah, and docbook doesn't exactly have a low barrier to entry
<marrusl> there must be some docbook -> markdown or ReST tools out there
<marrusl> not that they'd be _good_
<marrusl> We changed one of our projects from docbook to ReST and it made things so much easier to work with imho.
<marrusl> I like robie's idea a lot.  but if there's interest in markdown or ReST, this could be interesting for conversion:  http://johnmacfarlane.net/pandoc/
<linuxtech> I wish I could have heard the idea, thvideo keeps dropping, grr...
<ppetraki> if format XXX becomes dominant, and pdf is really that important, we could make a a pdf target
<mikeziri> tata?
<ppetraki> kinda hard to google for that, link?
<marrusl> The diffs are also much more readable in markdown/rest.
<linuxtech> I can write to etherpad, but the video keeps dropping so i am missing quite a bit of the conversation...
<marrusl> well, not everywhere.
<marrusl> I hear you folks fine.
<marrusl> which point?
<pmatulis> â  pmatulis to test xmlmind
<pmatulis> â¡ ? to pursue research into going away from XML
<marrusl> ppetraki, when I do get results in google from the server guide I find it completely random which release will be highest
<marrusl> right?
<marrusl> I end up manually changing the numbers
<marrusl> works like a champ
<rbasak> Yes - I think that happens to me too.
<marrusl> i just tried "ubuntu lvm".  got the wiki first and the 10.04 server guide 2nd
<pmatulis> â¢ ? research how to improve publicity for server guide contribution
<b3rn475> Hello everyone, Greetings from Italy
<bladernr> askubuntu is where everyone is always told (IME, the first thing I see in response to questions is "see askubuntu or the forums"
<bladernr> I've never seen docs mentioned in response to a question or issue, IME, of course, so grain of salt and all that
<bladernr> A good home for a server guide (from a corporate perspective) would be certification.canonical.com
<jono_> the session is kicking off in around 4mins
<Raed667> hola
<bladernr> ^^ I say that as the person who writes all the how-to stuff for certification testing
<Raed667> one question and only one ....  AYFKM ?
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-1 to: Track: Community | Jono Bacon Q&A | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/meeting/21944/jono-bacon-qa/
<Unixstuff> QUESTION: Will Ubuntu touch work on any android device?
 * sebsebseb doesnt see a jono_ on the video yet
<micah2> Jono!
<micah2> You are now seen
<magic_hat> welcome back
<Richie442> Hi there
<PaulW2U> hello!
<magic_hat> you are seen
<medri> works
<svennp> nope, cant see you at all
<pulu90> works well
<Zetman8383> I can see you
<dexinox> i can see you
<jdrab_> yes
<magic_hat> i can see u, can u see us?
<majster> works :)
<Bob_Z> I can see you
<sebsebseb> I see a beard
<TuxSax> I can see you Jono
<schwejk2> yes
<Leonardo_O> o/ I See u
<SamRJPK> I can see and hear you
<OpenNingia> crystal clear :(
<TuxSax> I can also hearing you
<OpenNingia> :)
<OpenNingia> bad emoticon
<b3rn475> I can see and hear you
<Yoshi> hello, say i see you clear !
<dexinox> woof
<magic_hat> sweet :D
<TuxSax> In the mean time, tell the audience what did you have for dinner
<Raed667> QUESTION: Ubuntu / Linux Mint .. friends or foes ??
<medri> QUESTION: Will the future Nexus Devices be "reference" devices for Ubuntu Touch as it is now? (thinking of buying a new Nexus 7)
<UnixStuffDotNet> QUESTION: Will Ubuntu touch work on any android device?
<Raed667> QUESTION: is Ubuntu edge project dead ?
<RobbyF> I see you jono
<RobbyF> if there is no lag lol
<Richie442> QUESTION: Have you tried Mir/Xmir on your own? Your Thoughts?
<Bob_Z> I thought I was beeping
<magic_hat> QUESTION: was anything gained from the Ubuntu Edge attempt? Like a desire to head in a direction previously avoided prior to the attempt?
<sebsebseb> QUESTION: You were an hour early today, so whilst answring my question, you didn't quite finnish I think.  So here it is again: Ubuntu Edge didn't reach it's goal, but do you think something similar may get tried again in the future?
<Raed667> QUESTION:
<sebsebseb> I already saw that demo :d
<UnixStufDotNet> smae
<sebsebseb> since I was able to go back  earlier, when he was an hour early :d
<UnixStufDotNet> *same
<Zatara214> QUESTION: Many newer mobile platforms are criticized for their lack of apps. What's being done with Ubuntu Touch to ensure that it's not ignored? Basically I'm just curious how it stands out.
<dexinox> QUESTION: Will the next LTS be focused more on mobile and adding features or just stabilizing new features from 13.10?
<OpenNingia> QUESTION: click package on desktop system? Are they planned?
<svennp> too much noise!
<b3rn475> QUESTION: What do you think about WebKit vs Blink?
<dholbach> OpenNingia, in the converged world, when Ubuntu Touch runs on Desktops too, but not right now
<micah2> QUESTION: I'm working on uTouch apps and would like to get a device to test touch / small screen / convergence performance. Can I do this all with a Nexus 10? Would I be better off getting a Nexus 4? Or need both?
<SamRJPK> QUESTION: Do you think the changes in Software Centre will help it be adopted as a de-facto standard with other distros or just for Ubuntu?
<Raed667> QUESTION: Edge project dead or not ?  + what's your position on Linux Mint ?
<beuno> you are live
<wellsb> A slider to change the volume property so you can adjust levels when playing multiple items might be nice
<sebsebseb> Raed667: yes Edge is dead
<zyga> jono_: QUESTION: will the nexus 7 2013 model be officially supported by ubuntu touch?
<Darius> where to grab one of those ?
<OpenNingia> it's a nexus 4
<Darius> nexus4 with ubuntu ?
<Leonardo_O> QUESTION: So, how close are you working with valve games to linux? And how is the work with nVidia and AMD to bring better drivers to Ubuntu/linux?
<OpenNingia> yep
<Darius> is it stable ?
<firecracker> very pleased with ubuntu at the moment... thank you for your work :)
<Guest62262> QUESTION: what is your thought on the elementary OS project
<OpenNingia> Darius: nope, not near alpha quality, but you better ask Jono
<Darius> :*(
<pulu90> QUESTION: Is there plan to support new version of nexus 4 incase it happens to be released soon?
<rikshaw> ion (such as these weekly sessions) are really great.  But, I think I only found them from a random link somewhere.  What am I missing?  Is there a obvious way to get to this good communication stuff from ubuntu.com?
<rikshaw> <rik-shaw> I mean "discover" them easier for a complete outsider / beginner?
<KarielG0> hello, can you remember me? I was on a live like 1,5 month ago, I was just on vacation... I'm sure I will make some questions for you
<rikshaw> let me try that again...
<sebsebseb> QUESTION: Do you ever think that you aren't technical enough, I mean in general, so for eaxmple it could be at being at an event, with certain tech talks going on about things you don't know much about.
<rikshaw> QUESTION: your communication is great, once it is found.  I recently 'stumbled' into the launchpad documentation on creating and uploading packages to a ppa.  And your communication (such as these weekly sessions) are really great.  But, I think I only found them from a random link somewhere.  What am I missing?  Is there a obvious way to get to th
<rikshaw> is good communication stuff from ubuntu.com?
<number22> QUESTION: in a couple weeks a lot of major brands will do events, i know its probably secret info but should we except some surprises?
<KarielG0> QUESTION: What's your statement about community making Ubuntu? I feel that Canonical is getting really closed about it, I don't feel that I can change anything in it like with other distros.
<DS_McGuire> Sorry I'm late :/
<OpenNingia> QUESTION: about Mir and GTK, did you guys manage to agree with the GTK guys about Mir support or are you going to ship GTK apps running on XMir ( or something else entirely ) ?
<b3rn475> QUESTION: Raspberry Pi, what do you think about? Will ubuntu support ARM6 board like Raspberry Pi in the future?
<KarielG0> QUESTION: I heard like few month ago that Ubuntu has 20mln users, how is it with it now and do remixes count? ( f.ex. xubuntu as well as such like Mint)
<magic_pants> lost my connection so i'm now magic pants :P
<SimonK1> QUESTION: does/will ubuntu-touch-phones support iphone headphones (media-control-keys and volume-keys)?
<b3rn475> QUESTION: What chip vendors think about MIR?
<rstreeter> QUESTION: Will Nautilus be replaced with a different file manager in future releases?
<KarielG0> QUESTION: Metro Last Light is going to be released for Linux, is Canonical as a company cooperating with companies for making things on Linux?
<SimonK1> b3rn475: nvidia and amd are confirmed. I don't think Jono will reveal any more information on this toppic (contracts between canonical and the gpu vendors...)
<KarielG0> QUESTION: What's the Canonical's statement about Pacman?
<UnixStuffDotNet> QUESTION: Will Ubuntu Touch be able to use it's Desktop Mode if the phone does not support using a mhl buy can be sent onto a screen by a wireless display.
<magic_pants> QUESTION: do you think ubuntu or linux in general will, in the future, begin to define or redefine what it means to use a computer? the look and feel as well as how a computer is meant to work?
<sebsebseb> QESTION: How come you haven't done any Q&A sessions for a few weeks or more?
<b3rn475> SimonK1: Thank you I was not very updated about that.
<cheerockie> QUESTION: Hi Jono. I'm Polish and I have websoftware company. In my company we use only Ubuntu. We glad to see "game revolution" but we need to a professional software like Photoshop, After Effects etc. GiMP is not enough. Soe We think we can build proffesional software for Ubuntu or been a Canonical partner (We have 10 000.pounds for that for a ye
<cheerockie> ar Why Canonical
<SimonK1> b3rn475, the open source drivers are supporting mir too (just to mention them^^)
<cheerockie> QUESTION:don't build some proffesional apps?
<TuxSax> QUESTION: As for getting involved in the community, what would you recommend to a total coding illiterate to start from?
<cheerockie> QUESTION: Hi Jono. I'm Polish and I have websoftware company. In my company we use only Ubuntu. We glad to see "game revolution" but we need to a professional software like Photoshop, After Effects etc. GiMP is not enough. Soe We think we can build proffesional software for Ubuntu or been a Canonical partner (We have 10 000.pounds for that for a ye
<cheerockie> ar Why Canonical don't build some professional apps? Sorry for my bad english ;)
<OpenNingia> Jono: OpenNingia is pronounced like OpenNinja :P
<KarielG0> QUESTION: Is Canonical going to make alternatives of other services against companies like Microsoft or Google? Like on this picture (a bit old one) data:image/jpeg;base64,/9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wCEAAkGBxQSEhUUExQVFRUXGBwXGRgYGRgcGhwcFxwYGBcYHRccHCggGB0lHBUXITEiJSkrLjAuGB8zODMsNygtLisBCgoKDg0OGxAQGiwlICQsNCw0LCwsLC00LDQsLCwvLCwvLC0sLCwsLCwsLC
<KarielG0> w0LCwsLCwsLC0sLCwsLCwsLSwsLP/AABEIAMMBAwMBIgACEQEDEQH/xAAbAAACAgMBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAEBQIDAAEGB//EAEkQAAIBAgQDBQQGCAMGBQUAAAECEQADBBIhMQVBURMiYXGBBjKRoSNCUmJysRQzgpKiwdHwJFPhFUOywtLxFjRzg8MHVHSTo//EABkBAAMBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAECAwAEBf/EADARAAICAQEECQQCAwEAAAAAAAABAhEhAxIxQfAiUWFxgZGhsdETweHxBDIjQlIz/9oADAMBAAIRAxEAPwBsq1Yq1JFq1VrnKFYSrVt1MW6uCUAlQt1LJUzb
<KarielG0> BrVsgwCOe1CzERy8ak+gq42/lr8K3kECTQsIPl0HlWgnrV6252ohLIHWtZgVbQFbCUV2da7OiYGCVYiAVaUrFtk6CsY0LdA8Z4jbw1s3Lh02AGpY8gBSX2k9t1w9w2bNsXGTRmYkKCN1AGpI57Vz/Fvay1iVtm9hiz2ySFFyLZmNW7uY7beetOoMDZ3fCcV29lLuUpnEhTqYnTXxEH1o3s65H2b9tXvXVstYGugNqe6B1U/VHWdK7hEkTFLLDCgQgCoZTR5szWdlS2YD7KtG1Rht1rJWswubDeNRZIOvpTFrdA3WnStZqIQNq0bdStWuZIGsaz0JjQeBooWtYkTExDbHWdqZJs
<KarielG0> DoAa3VJtRyoq82VoO39YPpvzrV0CgYEYVArXNtxi4wVlRwO8ZzKZA693lB+Na/2hf2htyZDWz7sgjuqQeWm/wMPssFo6ErVT0u4Xj3clHBBgMCSp6CO6BO8zqPHQ0c1DcY1NZUYrKJgyy8eVH2xNLQngaus3Su3z/OksIxRKhi5ykDSQapV2kamPQH5Cilwtt9SGJA2zNrPQTvQsIvwmPAEnfp/OsfiqdYj7IH85qK8Ds58y5gfEkx6NI+VHr7N4dkkpqZJOZhrMkwDHWtaNkU/wC2VUypMwNWJPymq+GcYu3b4twCCTIVeUTMySNab2/ZexAcKTHItI6a9aPwmFW1ogCiNcoA
<KarielG0> 16k86zkjUF2sMFGlYbBoy0JE1LJS2EXm3UBB2IqvEcStqxQMbjj6lsZmHnGi/tEUHi77iC4tWAdg57S4fAW0MT5FqooSYdljILV2GTc7dJpGxaCWLqo+tdbsx4RbtwY8HYGmOAwkLmjKPtEZZ/Cohv3j6Gs4VxDsnhWJJztm97MZ85M/Oq66f2/4KbGINxQeyvEsp6MdWU9DrmHgw6GuXmuhOyDVM7r/AOlTJ2t8EgPkUrJjQE5vmUr0g4q0IzXEHmy14x7HcOu38VbFosuUh2dTlKqN+9Ign3R1nzr2244X3me3+KI/eYFf4qjNLaKw3A44hYO161++v9avS4jbMp8mBrV2yx
<KarielG0> sorry for it, I didn't know that this link is so long ;c
<Darius> Question: will ubuntu be capable of running android native applications?
<Darius> QUESTION: will ubuntu be capable of running android native applications?
<sebsebseb> SamRJPK: I think you'll be interested in the AppStream project, it's meant to be a cross distro alternative to the software centre,  Fedora, Debian, Mageia, OpenSuse, etc
<SimonK1> Darius: no
<sebsebseb> SimonK1: not sur about its current developmetn state, but that was the idea
<KarielG0> QUESTION: Is rolling release idea dead?
<kniwaw> Hi Jono!
<SimonK1> Darius: or to be more differential: it'll not be supported by cannonical. Third party could write an emulator/...
<Cracknel> Darius: no by default. I guess you could install the Java VM used by Android.
<Darius> thx
<sebsebseb> QUESTION: What do you think of Tizen, and Enlightment which Tizen is interested in using etc?
<SimonK1> KarielG0: rolling release will not land in the near future. But it is still in discussion. Indeed there are already changes towards "rolling release".
<sebsebseb> jono_: thanks for your answer to my technical question :)
<SimonK1> KarielG0: like shorter support for "non-LTS"-versions, it was a plan to have more versions between LTSs... I don't know however the last details about this.
<SimonK1> QUESTION: will the next Jono Bacon Q&A, announced by @Ubuntu on twitter, link to the canonical site instead of facebook (which isn't accessible without javascript)?
<KarielG0> QUESTION: With my question about community - for example I wrote an email to the webmaster about my concerns about one part of the site and I didn't get any response, so how is it?
<sebsebseb> QUESTION: If a opensource/freesoftware event, has mainly talks that aren't really aimed at you, but also some that would be, would you go maybe anyway?  In fact to add to this would you only go to some events maybe, if speakin there yourself?
<bkerensa> QUESTION: Do you think 13.10 having ads in its installer for a non-free service and non-free software is in line with the Ubuntu Ethos?
<magic_pants> QUESTION: What types of areas does Cannonical want preference? Look and feel? security? What are they the most passionate about?
<linuxtech> updates to security and some stats should yield some reasonably accurate numbers for users...
<sebsebseb> QUESTION:  With my LUG we are planning on having a install fest next year, with more than one distro as well, have you got any  general tips for us?
<bkerensa> linuxtech: In reality Ubuntu by default does ping Canonicals servers from the U1 daemon so that alone would be better measurement then downloads
<KarielG0> QUESTION: My question about pacman - pacman is like apt-get, for example Arch uses it
<TuxSax> pacman is the Arck Linux package manager
<Deep4k> Hey Jono,How about the sip packages in the server
<Leonardo_O> QUESTION: The Brazilian military uses ubuntu with pride. How is the NSA leaks made by snowden affecting work at Canonical?
<KarielG0> QUESTION: If I want to build a PC now what companies components would you reccomend?
<magic_pants> QUESTION: is there any thought to PUSH technology towards wireless power, wireless video (for a monitor and sound), and other cordless applications? Or is that something that will only be dealt with as it comes on it's own?
<TuxSax> I was asking about coding
<TuxSax> what language would you recommend me to get started on
<zyga> QUESTION: what is your guess on the name of the T release? ;-)
<magic_pants> TuxSax, i'd say language doesn't matter.. the principles behind coding are language independent.. languages simply have strengths towards certain aspects of those concepts
<DS_McGuire> QUESTION: How likely is Unity 8 for 14.04. Will we see Unity 7 for the next LTS again?
<sebsebseb> zyga: he tends to find out the names early, but not to early
<KarielG0> QUESTION: Will there be any kind of Canonical/Ubuntu melody? :D
<Zatara214> QUESTION: One thing I love about Ubuntu is that I get updates and patches whenever they're needed. How are updates like that going to work on Ubuntu Touch?
<SimonK1> DS_McGuire: It is still the official statement: 14.04LTS will ship with Unity-8 as default.
<bkerensa> jono_: there are now ads in the installer as highvoltage has pointed out on G+
<Darius> QUESTION: what are the plans of canonical about JVM ? I find sometime difficult running Java enterprise class applications like citrix or cisco's software with openjdk
<willc0de4food> QUESTION: have there been any talks with Blizzard about bringing their games to Ubuntu?
<sebsebseb> QUESTION:  Is that a old or new Ubuntu t-shirt and what is really on it under the logo?
<cheerockie> QUESTION Jono can You print Your email address please? What about building professional apps by Canonical and what is future of ubuntu's webbapp. Sorry for my english I still learning ;)
<IdleOne> cheerockie: jono@ubuntu.com
<bkerensa> QUESTION: More info about those ads in the installer https://plus.google.com/u/0/118060934321492774758/posts/9KWT21ehG6i
<Chlover> QUESTION Could you tell us what phone manufacturers canonical have been talking to, for Ubuntu Touch's release in 2014?
<jcastro> yea so ... that's not an ad
<cheerockie> @IdleOne: Thank You!
<TomJ> What is better in your opinion, Windows or osx?
<Al_Clavichi> [QUESTION] Default web browser in future ubuntu and the one use?
<TomJ> QUESTION: What is better in your opinion, Windows or osx?
<bkerensa> jcastro: he seems to think it is and it is non-free service/non-free software
<linuxtech> Ubuntu One could be an issue for the NSA.
<Deep4k> How strong kernel does the Ubuntu have?
<jcastro> bkerensa: so?
<KarielG0> QUESTION: I meant that I know about components but about companies - drivers etc.
<bkerensa> linuxtech: since it is on AWS it absolutely is already an issue
<Al_Clavichi> same as linux
<jcastro> We don't remove the browser because it can connect to non-free servers
<sebsebseb> QUESTION: Guitar today?
<bkerensa> jcastro: this is direct promotion of a non-free software/service though on a free OS quite different from browsers accessing non-free sites
<mehdi> Why is my fan blowing really loud when I load Ubuntu. I have an AMD graphic card.
<CheeseBurg> QUESTION: Right now Ubuntu uses a lot of Google technology like in the RSS reader and Canonical uses Google for like Hangouts, are you guys planning to move away from Google products in the future?
<Al_Clavichi> check for power management features for radeon open source driver
<KarielG0> Mehdi is it you VGA's fan? try to install another drivers, I had the same problems with my 9600GT
<jcastro> bkerensa: so what?
<kellim> does exist already a new time line for the smartphone edge?
<jcastro> telling people that they shouldn't use non-free services with ubuntu is a good way to get people to not use Ubuntu
<pteklof> what do you think about the Oppo find 5 and ubuntu touch
<magic_pants> QUESTION: are non-LTS distros a kind of testing ground for options that may end up in a future LTS? I guess I want to know, why have LTS and non-LTS distros? what do the non-LTS distros contribute to the growth or progress of Ubuntu?
<Al_Clavichi> echo mid|sudo tee /sys/class/drm/card0/device/power_profile this will lower your gpu temp
<Darius> QUESTION: what are the plans of canonical about JVM ? I find sometime difficult running Java enterprise class applications like citrix or cisco's software with openjdk
<jono_> jono@ubuntu.com
<CheeseBurg> QUESTION: Why is Ubuntu so awesome?
<mehdi> If you're still reading this guys, I have tried a lot of AMD drivers, but most of them give really sketchy results.
<cheerockie> QUESTION: Jono what phone I have buy to run Ubuntu for phone?
<mehdi> The open-source drivers are the most stable, and they consume a lot of power as I previously said :(.
<Al_Clavichi> you can lower your temps with default driver
<Al_Clavichi> search for power management https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/ATI#With_KMS_enabled
<kellim> I try to tell the peopke to switch to ubuntu but they are still afreaid to switch because of non windows program how can i explain them that everything exist and make them the ubuntu also interesting as other!
<IdleOne> cheerockie: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch
<Al_Clavichi> teach them to dual install
<Deep4k> Does the ubuntu have a documentation of the asterisk SIP
<kellim> :)
<KarielG0> QUESTION: What does Ubuntu logo exactly show? a ring with 3 circles?
<pteklof> thanks!!
<Darius> Bye and thanks
<linuxtech> Have a good vacation!
<Al_Clavichi> Cheer Jono
<piew> thank you!
<krwlng> see u jono
<dexinox> enjoy your vacation
<krwlng> thank you
<Richie442> Enjoy
<Richie442> bye
<rikshaw> thanks a lot
<Chlover> Bye bye, have a good vacation
<CheeseBurg> Bye
<RobbyF> awesome. love these sessions.
<sebsebseb> RobbyF: yeah same here :)
<Ev90878> i see u
<piew> nice drum on the back, want to listen Severed Fifth
<Ev90878> im lovin it
<Al_Clavichi> ubuntu logo means circle of friends
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/community-1/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/08/28/%23ubuntu-uds-community-1.html
<Spee_Der> See you fine in RI
<Bachar> What do we do with the Edge Project ?
<Bachar> What is the next major step for Desktop Ubuntu ? features... else..
<Bachar> You guys had 12M ( indiegogo ) to finance the production of the EDGE why not try to raise that money elsewhere ? Website dedicated or else...
<Bachar> Any Touch SDK available ?
<xnox> Bachar: the uds session has finished for the day in this channel. maybe try #ubuntu or #ubuntu-discuss or #ubuntu-touch?
<Bachar> What can we do to help the Ubuntu dev. as a day to day user ?
<Bachar> Best IDE to dev. on Ubuntu touch project ?
<bubba1> why is the data transfer to usb drive so slow
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/community-1/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/08/29/%23ubuntu-uds-community-1.html
#ubuntu-uds-community-1 2013-08-29
<Istimsak> Can't wait for this
<Mirv> :)
<calbo23> lol irc exist again.. same thing for chanserv lol
 * calbo23 slaps asac around a bit with a large trout
<calbo23> ho yes the slap option run again !
<Ursinha> calbo23, it never ceased to exist
<calbo23> for me yes lol
<calbo23> ho je crois on parle francais :-)
<calbo23> speak french here ?
<Ursinha> calbo23, no, this one is english
<Ursinha> #ubuntu-fr maybe?
<calbo23> okok :-)
<YoBoY> hi
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-1 to: Track: Community | Flavors Quality Assurance | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/meeting/21839/community-1308-quality-flavors/
<balloons_uds> if anyone wishes to join the hangout, let me know
<DanChapman> balloons_uds: i'll join you, can't have you on your own again :-P
<balloons_uds> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/951e00ecb72f5f09253c59a84ea04cb19e925ebb?authuser=1&hl=en
<balloons_uds> feel free to join
<phillw> balloons_uds: you can also add me :)
<amjjawad> balloons:
<amjjawad> how to join :/
<balloons_uds> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/951e00ecb72f5f09253c59a84ea04cb19e925ebb?authuser=1&hl=en
<balloons_uds> that should allow you to join ^^
<amjjawad> yes, give me 2 mins
<phillw> hmm, plugin down-loading... 10 mins
<amjjawad> same here :(
<DanChapman> balloons_uds: g= is freezing up on me at the min
<DanChapman> give me 2 mins
<amjjawad> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGNOMEOneStopPage
<amjjawad> balloons:
<amjjawad> send me a link to the meeting plz
<amjjawad> I close it by mistake :(
<phillw> amjjawad: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/951e00ecb72f5f09253c59a84ea04cb19e925ebb?authuser=1&hl=en
<DanChapman> Darn google, i'll do it from irc. THe current ubiquity tests i have run on ubuntu, xubuntu and lubuntu and they all worked. I am going to be doing an overhaul on the ubiquity tests to update them to using the autopilotgtkemulator, currently it has been hard to fix alot of the timing issues which the emulator should help with and also make the tests language independent, currently they only support English installs which wil
<DanChapman> l soon be changed in the overhaul. There are plans to extend the tests to supporting dual-boot against windows as this is a common place of problems aswell as tests for upgrading, re-installing and 'crazy partition' layouts :-)
<amjjawad> You're not allowed to join this video call.
<amjjawad> it says: You're not allowed to join this video call.
<amjjawad> weird O_o
<DanChapman> amjjawad: I am having the same problem
<amjjawad> DanChapman: that is bad :(
<linuxtech> Does the server CD/DVD qualify as a flavor?
<balloons_uds> can amjjawad and DanChapman send me an email, I'll invite
<amjjawad> amjjawad
<amjjawad> amjjawad@gmail.com
<DanChapman> balloons_uds: danchapman1819@gmail.com
<amjjawad1> why everything is kicking me out :/
<amjjawad1> grrrr
<linuxtech> Not sure if this is the place to bring this up...  I was thinking about creating a team that would work on DNS server and other software related to DNSSEC, some of which is officially part of the server team's packages, but others are not.  Assuming we get people to create the tests for the packages, how then would we get access to run the tests?
<amjjawad1> balloons: technical issues?
<DanChapman> balloons_uds: no luck for me mate.
<linuxtech> Are any test automatically run whenever we build something on Launchpad?
<rossball> sorry about that, laptop has over heated and shut down :( On my Sisters one (phillw)
<balloons_uds> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-tests
<linuxtech> Some of the software isn't server software, for exampl dnssec-tools.org has patched things like ssh and lftp to use DNSSEC.
<balloons_uds> https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Saucy/view/AutoPkgTest/
<balloons_uds> http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/auto-pkg-test.html
<linuxtech> Cool, Thank you!
<balloons_uds> rossball:no worries
<balloons_uds> any comments to share on what's going on?
<rossball> for lubuntu, the push will come post 13.10 for writing up missing test-cases as we head for our 1st LTS in 14.04. We had some test cases already done, and elfy from xubuntu has been kid enough to add some more (we also can use some the xubuntu ones where we both use the same application)
<rossball> s/kid/kind
<amjjawad1> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/CommunicationsTeam/WOWLubuntu/StartUbuntu
<linuxtech> 38.99% Desktops could be XP, see http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Windows-8-Windows-XP-Market-Share-Windows-98-Zombie,21341.html
<linuxtech> If that is right, Ubuntu could get millions of new users next year.
<balloons_uds> ty everyone!
<Ashi> hi
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-1 to: Track: Community | Improving UDS | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/meeting/21903/improving-uds/
<balloons> amjjawad1, hop over in #ubuntu-quality if you have a couple extra mins
<bjf> jono, you are live here
<YoBoY> hi
<jono> if anyone wants to join the session, join: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/ebe5bb4ef4d0a37714443a09f44138b54c744d3a?authuser=0&hl=en
<CheeseBurg> Jono, I want your job. How do I get it?
<bjf> CheeseBurg, trust me, you *don't* want his job. you just see the fun parts.
<cjohnston> wow this is lagged
<CheesBurg> bjf, I assume it is all fun
<LazarX> I can see you
<rickspencer3> hey jono can I join?
<jono> rickspencer3, https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/ebe5bb4ef4d0a37714443a09f44138b54c744d3a?authuser=0&hl=en
<jono> etherpad: http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-1308-improving-uds
<bjf> wow! huge lag
<cjohnston> almost 2 minutes
<CheesBurg> Insane lag
<Geochr> refresh your page
<airurando> rickspencer3: yeah marketing was the wrong word. sorry.
<rickspencer3> airurando, no apologies!
<rickspencer3> :)
<bjf> one of the impossible things to do in vUds is the "hallway" conversations that happened all the time at non-virt uds
<popey> jono: fyi, every time you type and talk, you get muted and we hear half what you say
<bjf> would it be worth while to have various teams run "open" sessions where they just hung out for an hour and people could pop in/out and ask questions?
<popey> bjf: that's kinda the round table in the morning
<bjf> popey, yes
<bjf> the kernel team certainly has gotten away from round-table sessions
<bjf> "hey look at this cool thing i hacked up"
<rickspencer3> popey, bjf do you guys wanted to just join?
<bjf> rickspencer3, no
<bjf> :-)
<rickspencer3> lol
<popey> rickspencer3: many loco teams are winding down, not just your local one
<popey> rickspencer3: thats my view as a bystander
<bjf> rickspencer3, i'm loosing my kernel creds just being in this session :-)
<bjf> i will say that though i'm negative about the lag but g+ hangouts really are quite fantastic
<bjf> i don't think mumble would work at all
<popey> rickspencer3: perhaps because decisions aren't often made at UDS anymore?
<popey> rickspencer3: so there's less "ta-da" for the press to report on
<popey> both negative and positive 'news' like application decisions
<popey> rickspencer3: also people in our own community aren't in the sessions and they're the people who socialse our sessions, negating the need for press to sit through videos
<popey> (see next item on list for context for above)
<popey> i.e. fewer community people tweeting about stuff
<popey> e.g. I made a video showing the really awesome new first run wizard, and it's had ~20 views. in previous UDSs that would be newsworthy and would have hundreds of views
<jono> popey, want to join: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/ebe5bb4ef4d0a37714443a09f44138b54c744d3a?authuser=0&hl=en
<popey> sure
<rickspencer3> lower third is busted for me :/
<cjohnston> Should we increase the times of UDS and allow for scheduling of sessions to be done around the time zones for the major required participants?
<cjohnston> so popey broke the schedules
<popey> \o/
<cjohnston> I'm wondering if a physical UDS should be after the LTS.. the cycle leading up to LTS shouldn't be about features and such as much as stability
<cjohnston> but a UDS after LTS could be used to plan the path towards the next LTS
<cjohnston> jono popey ^
<rickspencer3> cjohnston, yeah, I agree
<rickspencer3> also, we need to keep a high level of focus on Touch
<rickspencer3> jono, hey, I need to drop
<rickspencer3> sorry
<jono> rickspencer3, np
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-1 to: Track: Community | Community Roundtable - Thu | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/meeting/21902/community-roundtable-thu/
<airurando-uds> thanks all
<skellat> Oh dear, did I miss the session?
<skellat> Are we still having the Thursday community roundtable?
<skellat> Ah, there we go.  I see the live stream kicking in now.
<mhall119> apologies for being late, we'll be starting shortly
<mhall119> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/4c363057f89bd043236cb46da32f5b785fde09fe?authuser=1&hl=en for anybody who wants to join the fishbowl
<skellat> Hello mhall119!
<dshimer> Live
<PaulW2U> mhall119: I can see you :)
<dshimer> Listened to a session from yesterday, mentioned not spending as much time with "just a user".  Since I am one (though tech oriented) I have to say that there are so many places I can go and get interaction if I care to, there can't be much of a complaint.  I have converted 4 families (non tech) who are "just users" and frankly they don't care.  Ubu
<dshimer> ntu works for them, they love it, I no longer have to reinstall windows every 6-8 months and everyone is happy.
 * skellat is trying to get the hangout plugin re-installed 
<asomething> dshimer, jono was talking about how the canonical team allocates their work right now
<asomething> mhall119, yep
 * skellat is grabbing headphones really fast
<dshimer> asomething: Get that,  I'm just saying between the weekly updates, other hangouts, blogs, etc, I practically feel "like I'm there", if I care to be that is.
<asomething> mhall119, not sure I've got much to say
<asomething> i think there was a session on LoCo stuff this morning: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/meeting/21868/country-teams/
<YoBoY> staying with ubuntu is not the goal. Ubuntu is still the best user friendly distribution. If people wants to change their distribution, it's fine, help them, but let them know they can always promote also ubuntu to their friends
<dshimer> QUESTION:  Sorry, I slipped away for a second, what exactly is skellat opposed to as it regards LoCos?  I just missed a couple sentences.
<linuxtech> I haven't become a member in part the process seems a bit too bureaucratic.
<linuxtech> The Virginia Loco isn't really happening and recently I learned at least 4 people tried to revive it without success.  If I could attend some events I would more likely be a member.
<skellat> http://ohio.ubuntu-us.org/map/user
<PaulW2U> linuxtech: I feel that no matter what I do or try to do I will never become an Ubuntu member :(
<linuxtech> No events...
<dshimer> skellat: I originally didn't have a point just needed where you were coming from (thanks). However as I listen; isn't there something in between though?  I'm in Columbus and though I may never contribute I have never even looked into a LoCo as a gathering place or connection point because I know there isn't anything here.  Maybe LoCos aren't the pl
<dshimer> ace for just everyday users who don't really contribute.
<linuxtech> I am in a rural area, an hour or two to Hampton Roads or Richmond.
<dshimer> hoping for the best, more likely saturday because of work.
<skellat> dshimer: http://ohiolinux.org/friday
<skellat> dshimer: http://ohiolinux.org/registration
<skellat> dshimer: I should still be at our table
<skellat> Come and visit
<YoBoY> (the video/hangout is blocked on one camera ?)
<linuxtech> I am a bit behind the stream...  I haven't tried to do any events.
<skellat> YoBoY: My camera is borked on this camera
<skellat> I mean this machine
<skellat> The machine with the working camera is inaccessible to me
<YoBoY> steven
<linuxtech> Rarley I have gone to twuug.org meetings, but they rarely announce the topics ahead of time and that doesm't lead  to really good talks.
<PaulW2U> mhall119: it seems more to be about achievements rather than participation
<YoBoY> better mhall119
<skellat> I will try to record my talk about becoming a member on September 13th and get it released on the Burning Circle feed
<YoBoY> +1 don't wait for people to organise an event, do it yourself, just go out with the friend and anounce this "event" on ML, loco portal, twitter, â¦
<linuxtech> I once ran a local non-profit ISP, and that was 6 months after after answering to answer phones.  It didn't involve applications until I became Executive Director some years later.
<linuxtech> volunteering to answer phones...
<YoBoY> One of our loco member is behind the biggest ubuntu event in France and he's not an ubuntu member (never applied)
<skellat> YoBoY: We need to fix that! :-)
<YoBoY> skellat, why ? it's his choice ;)
<YoBoY> olive
<linuxtech> You asked about the application process for becoming a member, my point is usually it's easy to volunteer for unpaid jobs.
<YoBoY> there is also the langage barrier to apply, he don't speak english
<mhall119> there are regional membership boards
<YoBoY> but, I will fix that in the future, it's on my todo list to rule the world :D
<linuxtech> I have been using Debian and Ubuntu since 1996.
<linuxtech> And administrating, it as well as getting dozens, or more, of people running it.
<YoBoY> in my loco we need more people to step up, lot of followers, but not enought leaders :]
<linuxtech> I am working on something that advocates DNSSEC and DANE, but that isn't limited to Linux or Ubuntu.
<YoBoY> !D
<linuxtech> Get LUG's to also become part of the Loco scene, why shouldn't Fedora and Ubuntu people interact!
<YoBoY> nobody can beat french locoteam, forget about it :D
<mhall119> :-P
<popey> mhall119: it seems locos are dying somewhat?
<popey> or is that just mine?
<popey> is it the membership leaving to other distros and new people not being recruited?
<popey> mhall119: ok, missed the start sorry
<YoBoY> popey, not just yours, lot of "old" members quit (life, unity, amazonâ¦) and no "new" members to step up and replace them for my team
<popey> also, android
<popey> I'm seeing a lot of people buying ios and android devices
<popey> less need for ubuntu for those people
<popey> so they move on
<popey> seems the people who remain are either hardcore, or more LUG types and many of them have computers ubuntu doesn't work well on
<popey> Sure, we;re in a lul between unity 7 / compiz, and unity 8 / mir
<popey> perhaps in 2014 we'll have ubuntu able to run on leaner kit
<skellat> In Ohio, Unity causes disharmony too
<skellat> I've almost got that dealt
<skellat> with
<popey> makes me sad â¹
<dshimer> Thanks
<YoBoY> popey, we worked hard on that this year and it's starting to work and we have new members who wants to make things appen :)
<skellat> popey: We can engage in that colloquy via e-mail
<YoBoY> thanks everyone
<PaulW2U> thanks all
<skellat> Thank you everybody!
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/community-1/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/08/29/%23ubuntu-uds-community-1.html
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-1 to: Track: Community | Rick Spencer | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/meeting/21962/engineering-management-qa/
<bnjmn> Hello
<rickspencer3> o/ jibel
<jibel> Hey rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> or should I say "bonsoir jibel?"
<rickspencer3> oops
<rickspencer3> Â«bonsoirÂ»
<jibel> indeed, bonsoir Monsieur, and the session in French please ;)
<rickspencer3> en franÃ§ais?
<pandu> hey guys
<slashcrack> hi pandu
<pandu> is any body there
<pandu> :)
<son> waddup \
<pandu> i have posted a query to ubuntu app development
<pmcgowan> jono, we can see ya
<bnjmn> Hello world
<rickspencer3> hi bnjmn
<wellsb> We can see you
<fugue88> a/v working fine
<Cowboysoftware> Hello! in Thailand we can see you
<emijawdo> Hello from Tunisia :)
<ayumu722> we can see you
<rickspencer3> hi emijawdo :)
<bs37> jono: hello
<pmcgowan> lots of lag
<zaim> hello
<emijawdo> QUESTION: how's ubuntu 13.10 going to deal with hybrid graphic cards drivers ? thank you :)
<micah2> QUESTION: I have heard news about Canonical working to make Ubuntu phones happen, is there work with hardware partners to build a tablet built for Ubuntu Touch?
<jono> get your questions in, folks!
<jono> say the word QUESTION and then your question
<jono> e.g:
<jono> QUESTION: why do you foo?
<raven> QUESTION: What are the primary steps that Canonical / Ubuntu wants to do after the indiegogo campaign failed?
<asomething> QUESTION: When will tabs be usable on the desktop? So painful with a mouse! =P
<Raed667> QUESTION: are you going to have a second run with EDGE ? maybe with someone more experienced in mobile
<ayumu722> QUESTION :are there any discussions with Nokia to make an Ubuntu phone ? I read they avoided Android just because they didn't want to be the second or third best constructer for Android, sorry for my bad english
<infinity> The hybrid graphics stuff could be better answered by 'tseliot' on freenode.
<jono> more questions?
<jono> be sure to get them in and Rick can answer them
<pritz_0601> QUESTION: Now that August is almost over, so what are the next goals for September ("Sands" or "pebbles" maybe!)? (In reference to the "Big Rocks" goals of August.
<jono> remember, feel free to ask about anything!
<son> jono
<asomething> rickspencer3, on tthe oml apps like in the app you demonstrated
<asomething> s/oml/qml/
<micah2> QUESTION: Is negotiation of content distribution the primary thing that has held up Ubuntu TV?
<Al_Calavichi> QUESTION: How ubuntu's feature is going to be better than other linux distros, mostly from user side, ease of use, 3rd party support etc.
<emijawdo> thank you infinity .
<raven> QUESTION: Will Ubuntu TV be running with mir? How good does Mir work by now? Do you think it is good enough to 'power' 13.10 without major glitches?
<pr16> Will ubuntu 14.04 be more friendly with hybrid graphics, both AMD and NVIDIA?
<Al_Calavichi> it was answered
<infinity> pr16: I can just answer that with a "yes".
<micah2> QML is a blast :)
<jcastro> hello!
<ayumu722> QUESTION: ubuntu sdk now supports QML and HTML5, are there any plans to support any other languages like Java for example ?
<linuxtech> QUESTION: What are Ubuntu's plans for supporting DNSSEC, DANE and other related security protocols?   Please include plans for infrastructure, application and server support, and any planned time lines.
<Raed667> QUESTION [Off topic a bit) Does ubuntu offer scholarships or international internships ?
<Ba7a7chy> QUESTION: is there any plan to move to systemd ?
<Andres_Botero> Question: Will there be any new services offered through ubuntu one in the future?
<gQuigs> QUESTION: With Ubuntu Touch we now use a lot more Git; what's the future of Bzr in Ubuntu like?  (I also noticed that the bugs for adding git support to launchpad didn't get closed Won't fix like they have in the past)
<Al_Calavichi> thx
<aquarius> QUESTION: would you consider producing a small device to put Ubuntu TV on existing HDMI TVs? Essentially, Google's Chromecast device, which you may have seen, but with Ubuntu TV.
<jono> get your questions in, folks!
<jono> all questions are welcome :-)
<jcastro> linuxtech: you want to find jdstrand on #ubuntu-security
<jono> feel free to ask about anything and Rick is happy to answer it
<infinity> linuxtech: bind9 has supported DNSSEC for ages, and DANE support is happening upstream, and what's happening there is also in saucy.
<popey> rickspencer3: we also hire people from the community â»
<popey> :D
<Raed667> nice , i might check with the local community
<cjwatson> The UE empire grows? :-)
<Guest33544> Question: Where to learn QML? Documentation is not very useful if you are not familiar with Qt and c++.
<raven> QUESTION: What is the one thing you love and the one thing you hate about Ubuntu personally? (like "Hate: no cat wallpapers")
<ayumu722> lol
<Guest33544> lol
<infinity> cjwatson: I assume we get duchies at some point.
<jono> raven, good question :-)
<Al_Calavichi> QUESTION: is canonical involved in development of new linux kernel versions or is it just adding stuff needed to existing builds
<Raed667> QUESTION what's your position on linux mint and do you think that you should may be follow their methods (a question i always tend to ask you guys)
<micah2> QUESTION: KDE is working on "KDE Connect" which allows a kde desktop to do things like read and respond to text messages from a paired android phone. Could such functionality fit into Ubuntu's vision?
<popey> rickspencer3: yes, lag
<popey> rickspencer3: meow
<ayumu722> QUESTION: what will you do after the achievement of the convergence?
<sharif> can u help me ubuntu 13.4 problem
<sharif> ubuntu logout but open not showing by desktop
<micah2> Digia docs are great for learning QML
<micah2> Lots of great examples in the open source Ubuntu Touch apps
<sharif> help
<Guest33544> Great, thx!
<raven> sharif: please visit #ubuntu for support
<aquarius> QUESTION: Do you think that people who don't like Unity should leave the core Ubuntu community and go to a flavour/alternative distro, or do you think that it's better for them to bring up their issues with Unity in the hope that those issues get fixed?
<infinity> aquarius: How is that an either/or decision?  Can't they do both? :)
<infinity> aquarius: (Also, I think it's unfortunate to claim that flavours aren't part of the core Ubuntu community, it's all one community and we all work in the same archive)
<aquarius> infinity, you are right, and that was badly phrased. I don't know how to talk about "Ubuntu (the unity bit)"
<raven> QUESTION: Can you run normal apps (like Firefox) on Unity Next?
<aquarius> so apologies to anyone who thought that I was suggesting that flavours are not core. If there's a better word for that, I'd like to know it so I can use it!
<infinity> aquarius: Given the lag, I dunno if Rick will get there before time's up anyway, but I honestly don't see it as a dichotomy.  One can bring up their issues with Unity and go play with Ubuntu-GNOME or Xubuntu or Kubuntu for a while and have fun there, and always come back and try Unity again later (in fact, I did this a few cycles ago, and I'm about as core as core gets).
<Al_Calavichi> yeah gpu drivers are the main reason i keep using windows, dxva for 1080i video especially
<Raed667> methods : more user involved in dev + ideas
<micah2> Clarification: I was talking Ubuntu to Ubuntu, not Ubuntu to Android. Sorry about the confusion.
<rickspencer3> o/
<aquarius> is this the bit where rick plays some guitar? I understand that's what happens at the end of these Q&A sessions
<jcastro> indeed
<raven> OFFTOPIC QUESTION: Do you have cats? How many cats are there in total at Canonical? (You too, Jono)
<micah2> Thanks!
<aquarius> thank you, rickspencer3 (and jono, despite how he was mean to me :))
<jcastro> hah
<ayumu722> thank you guys for your answers
<rickspencer3> aquarius, serious, what was that all about?
<rickspencer3> lol
<leedev> will the "Final Wrap Up" use this same channel?
<brecht> thank you rick!
<asomething> leedev, looks like #ubuntu-uds-plenary
<leedev> thank you
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/community-1/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/08/29/%23ubuntu-uds-community-1.html
<gauravWorking> Question:
<gauravWorking> I am a software developer but so far have been working on Windows platform only. Recently after working on Linux Ubuntu I was intrigued with the open source capabilities. I am Using ubuntu on vmware over Windows 8. I was trying to work with aircrack but whenever I try to use it, it simply says that wlan is already in use. Alternatively I thought ma
<gauravWorking> y be because the Windows 8 is connected to wifi using it so ubuntu could not put it in monitor mode. But even after disconnecting it from the network. Aircrack still shows the same message. However, when I'm connected to wifi network on Windows8, i am able to use internet on ubuntu
<pmcgowan> gauravWorking, ask on ubuntu-devel
<gauravWorking> Also drivers for nvidia gtx 680m graphics card for a stand alone ubuntu installation are messing things up. There are forums I followed but everyone is giving altogether a different perspective to that.
<gauravWorking> k
<VLaaD> Hi, what is the IDE you are using in this stream?
<Surendhar> Hello
