#ubuntu-classroom 2007-10-15
* #ubuntu-classroom  [freenode-info]  if you're at a conference and other people are having trouble connecting, please mention it to staff: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-classroom.log
<atomic_> Mahlzeit
<pnano> hello, jrib
<jrib> hi
<jrib> paste the error here exactly
<pnano> I upgrade as ubuntu guide
<jrib> yes
<pnano> sudo apt-get upgrade & apt-get upgrade dis-upgrade
<jrib> the upgrade seems to have skipped a few packages
<pnano> cannot remember exact CL
<pnano> but that's similar
<jrib> that is *not* how to upgrade
<pnano> The Problem is on old Version ubuntu, I have python 2.4 installed
<jrib> the problem is that method often fails, it's not recommended
<pnano> when upgrading, it first install 2.5, replace 2.4, then wreid thing happened: it install 2.4 again
<jrib> pastebin what your /etc/apt/sources.list look like, the output of 'apt-cache policy ubuntu-desktop'
<pnano>  the problem is that method often fails, it's not recommended what is recommened for upgrad?
<pnano> e
<jrib> !upgrade
<ubotu> For upgrading, see the instructions at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UpgradeNotes
<jrib> but now it is too late
<pnano> can you wait me a min
<pnano> I will use that ubuntu  talking to you
<pnano> quit a min
<postgre> coming
<postgre> jrib:
<jrib> pastebin what your /etc/apt/sources.list look like, the output of 'apt-cache policy ubuntu-desktop'
<postgre> posting error and http://pastebin.ca/737521
<postgre> \/etc/apt/sources.list look like, the output of 'apt-cache policy ubuntu-desktop' is below the error message
<jrib> what command gave you the first error?
<postgre> jrib: any problem with my source.list?
<jrib> no
<gaurav_> aw his upgrade fucked up?
<gaurav_> not a nice start
<postgre> after I upgrade with : sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
<postgre> yes, a few package are broken!
<jrib> postgre: you use ubuntu with gnome?
<postgre> with KDE
<jrib> postgre: ok, what's the output of 'apt-cache policy kubuntu-desktop'?
<postgre> jrib: I pasted above:  http://pastebin.ca/737521
<jrib> no, that has "ubuntu-desktop"
<postgre> http://pastebin.ca/737536
<jrib> sudo apt-get install apache2.2-common
<postgre> ok
<postgre> jrib: http://pastebin.ca/737539
<postgre> errors :(
<postgre> apache2.2-common: Conflicts: libapache2-mod-php5 (<= 5.1.6-3) but 5.1.6-1ubuntu2.6 is to be installed
<jrib> ugh, ok pastebin the 'apt-get -f install' again
<postgre> jrib: you see, apache2 conflicts with php5
<jrib> we may just remove apache and then install it again later
<postgre> ok, pasting
<postgre> it doesnt work, since I have tried N times before going to here for last help:(
<postgre> jrib: here:http://pastebin.ca/737547
<jrib> what happens when you try to remove apache?
<postgre> jrib: you notice line 40: invoke-rc.d: initscript apache2, action "restart" failed.
<postgre> failed too
<postgre> did it 2 hours ago, failed
<postgre> :(
<jrib> but pastebin the output
<postgre> jrib: here failed again: http://pastebin.ca/737550
<postgre> gaurav_: <gaurav_> aw his upgrade fucked up? talking to me?
<gaurav_> yes :P
<gaurav_> well, talking to anyone, i had scrolled up and didn't see you rejoin ;)
<jrib> postgre: remove apache2-mpm-prefork
<postgre> gaurav_:  sudo apt-get -f remove apache2 cannot help either:(
<postgre> yes. am 100% sure it IS broken
<postgre> jrib: http://pastebin.ca/737557
<postgre> force remove cannot do it
<jrib> -f is not force
<postgre> jrib: how to use <force> option instead?
<jrib> is apache2-mpm-prefork still installed?
<jrib> apt-cache policy apache2-mpm-prefork
<postgre> Im not a .deber
<postgre> jrib:  apache2-mpm-prefork is broken, check.. wait a bit
<jrib> lets remove libapache2-mod-php5 libapache2-mod-python as well
<postgre> jrib: yes,  apache2-mpm-prefork  is installed, but broken for sure
<postgre> you mean lets remove them together?
<jrib> what was the output?
<postgre> remove all 3 pkg in one CL?>
<jrib> sure
<postgre> ok, issue
<postgre> jrib: failed this is output: http://pastebin.ca/737568
<jrib> output of:  apt-get -f install     now?
<postgre> jrib: how can I?force?remove them?
<jrib> last resort
<postgre> jrib: output of:  apt-get -f install     now? RE: no
<jrib> hmm?
<postgre> its oupt of $ sudo apt-get remove apache2-mpm-prefork libapache2-mod-php5 libapache2-mod-python
<jrib> I meant, try    apt-get -f install   now
<postgre> ok
<jrib> any output?
<postgre_> internet is cut
<postgre_> am coming back
<jrib> k
<postgre_> command log
<postgre_> jrib: $ sudo apt-get -f install               failed too
<postgre_> http://pastebin.ca/737585
<jrib> is apache running at the moment?
<postgre_> looking ... wait
<postgre_> jrib: not running
<jrib> ok
<jrib> edit /var/lib/dpkg/info/php4-sqlite3.{postrm,prerm}
<postgre_> ok
<jrib> tell it not to mess with restarting apache...
<postgre_> I vimming this file: /var/lib/dpkg/info/php4-sqlite.prerm
<postgre_> which line I should modify?
<jrib> pastebin it
<postgre_> jrib: http://pastebin.ca/737596
<postgre_> comment out Line 11-17
<postgre_> is it?
<jrib> postgre_: no, comment after 25 or just put "exit 0" after line 25
<postgre_> jrib: ok, ` exit 0` added
<postgre_> <jrib> edit /var/lib/dpkg/info/php4-sqlite3.postrm   no such file
<postgre_> <jrib> one file here /var/lib/dpkg/info/php4-sqlite3.prerm
<postgre_> jrib: do you mean /var/lib/dpkg/info/php4-sqlite.postinst ?
<jrib> no, that's fine, try -f install again
<postgre_> http://pastebin.ca/737607
<jrib> ignore that file
<postgre_> ok
<postgre_> sudo apt-get -f install?
<jrib> yes
<postgre_> jrib: failed
<postgre_> pasting:
<postgre_> http://pastebin.ca/737610
<jrib> erm
<jrib> paste what the new prerm looks like
<jrib> be back in a bit
<postgre_> paste what the new prerm looks like is ? trying figure out what you mean
<postgre_> jrib: let me paste this .sh ? /var/lib/dpkg/info/php4-sqlite.prerm
<postgre_> jrib: should I run apt-get autoremove before the command : sudo apt-get -f install?
<jrib> postgre_: /var/lib/dpkg/info/php4-sqlite3.prerm
<postgre_> yes
<postgre_> \/var/lib/dpkg/info/php4-sqlite.prerm
<jrib> no
<jrib> you do not have /var/lib/dpkg/info/php4-sqlite3.prerm ?
<postgre_> I have
<jrib> pastebin that
<postgre_> http://pastebin.ca/737629
<jrib> so....
<jrib> what do you think is trying to restart apache?
<jrib> wait
<jrib> this is the wrong file
<jrib> /var/lib/dpkg/info/php4-sqlite3.prerm
<postgre_> wrong file?
<jrib> with a 3
<postgre_> yes, with a '3'
<jrib> "$ cat /var/lib/dpkg/info/php4-sqlite.prerm"
<jrib> without a 3
<postgre_> oh
<postgre_> jrib: http://pastebin.ca/737633
<postgre_> how to edit it?
<jrib> "exit 0"     on second line
<postgre_> ok
<postgre_> do I need change \/var/lib/dpkg/info/php4-sqlite.prerm back to original..?
<jrib> sure
<postgre_> ok, change back
<postgre_> jrib: now it is installing some packages
<postgre_> sreen message scrolling fast
<jrib> cross your fingers
<postgre_> greate thanks!
<jrib> you should revert your changes to the prerm and dist-upgrade again
<postgre_> jrib: revert your changes to the prerm  = edit var/lib/dpkg/info/php4-sqlite3.prerm to its old version?
<postgre_> change back?
<postgre_> and then
<postgre_> sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
<postgre_>   sudo apt-get -f install
<postgre_>   sudo dpkg --configure -a
<postgre_> jrib:  revert your changes to the prerm , can you explain it a bit...
<jrib> remove the "exit 0"
<postgre_> remove 'exit ' for all files we have edit right?
<postgre_> include /var/lib/dpkg/info/php4-sqlite3.prerm
<jrib> that should be the only one you edited
<postgre_> ok
<postgre_> ls -al /var/lib/dpkg/info/php4-sqlite3.prerm
<postgre_> ls: /var/lib/dpkg/info/php4-sqlite3.prerm: No such file or directory
<postgre_> it dispear after replace by php5
<postgre_> unpacking and replacement ... line srolling now
<postgre_> looks like it works
<postgre_> thanks jrib:)
<jrib> cool, no problem
<postgre_> great to get you help, have a nice day!
<jrib> bye
<postgre_> bye
<gaurav_> awesome job with the help jrib
<gaurav_> one satisfied customer
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-classroom.log
#ubuntu-classroom 2007-10-16
<kruget> #ubuntu-classroom-chat
<chris_mcnamara> quit
<Tanuki-kun> Alut
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-classroom.log
<Tanuki-kun> ca commence pas ?
<Bixente> Tanuki-kun: vas sur #ubuntu-fr-classroom
<sgtd> Elle commence la semaine prochaine
<sgtd> (next week)
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-classroom.log
<Virusurbano> Good evening, i have a question!
<gaurav_> asdf
<gaurav_> oh, lame colloquy
#ubuntu-classroom 2007-10-18
<jose> :O
<jose> o.o
<[per0las]> Hello :)
<murgi__> buenas..
<cjae_> anyone help me with setting up dma?
<nalioth> !dma
<ubotu> dma is Direct Memory Access/Addressing. It makes hard disks & optical drives transfer data faster, and is almost always enabled in Ubuntu 6.06. For more info see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DMA
<cjae_>    sudo hdparm -d1 /dev/sda is not working nalioth
<cjae_> gives me help
<nalioth> i'm not up on DMa, cjae_.  it's usually enabled by default
<cjae_> thought so too
<cjae_> but is not on
<cjae_> jrib, are you around
<cjae_> using 7.04
<rajchekar> golas
<rajchekar> holas
<root_> O
<falcon765> Ð³Ð»ÑÑÐ¾ Ð² Ð½Ð°ÑÐµÐ¹ Ð´ÐµÑÐµÐ²Ð½Ðµ )
#ubuntu-classroom 2007-10-19
<Virusurbano> hey, how are you!
<Virusurbano> hello peopleÂ´.
<sgtd> good,you?
<ezzieyguywuf> hello jrib :-)
<jrib> hi
<ezzieyguywuf> so i've downloaded the patch
<jrib> doesn't matter where the patch is, just where you are
<ezzieyguywuf> ok
<jrib> so... where are you?
<ezzieyguywuf> well i downloaded the .tar.gz and extracted it
<ezzieyguywuf> and i'm in that directory (this is kdebluetooth btw)
<jrib> what does 'pwd' say?
<ezzieyguywuf> /home/wolfie/Desktop/kdebluetooth-1.0_beta2
<jrib> ok
<jrib> and 'ls'?
<ezzieyguywuf> lots of files
<ezzieyguywuf> any in particular we're lookin for?
<jrib> and 'ls -d */'?
<ezzieyguywuf> acinclude.m4   configure        kdebluetooth               Makefile.in
<ezzieyguywuf> aclocal.m4     configure.files  kdebluetooth.kdevelop      po
<ezzieyguywuf> admin          configure.in     kdebluetooth.kdevelop.pcs  README
<ezzieyguywuf> AUTHORS        configure.in.in  kdebluetooth.kdevses       stamp-h.in
<ezzieyguywuf> bemused.patch  COPYING          kdebluetooth.tag           subdirs
<ezzieyguywuf> ChangeLog      Doxyfile         Makefile.am                VERSION
<ezzieyguywuf> config.h.in    INSTALL          Makefile.am.in
<ezzieyguywuf> and admin/  kdebluetooth/  po/
<jrib> !paste
<jrib> ok
<ezzieyguywuf> !paste
<ezzieyguywuf> guess ubotu isn't in here
<jrib> so... is there a "bemused" directory in kdebluetooth/ ?
<ezzieyguywuf> yes
<jrib> ubotu is sleeping
<jrib> ok
<jrib> do you understand what -p does with patch?
<ezzieyguywuf> somewhat
<ezzieyguywuf> something to do with the location of something
<jrib> heh
<ezzieyguywuf> :-[
<ezzieyguywuf> h
<jrib> open up your patch in a text editor for a sec
<ezzieyguywuf> ok
<jrib> see those first two lines?
<ezzieyguywuf> yea
<ezzieyguywuf> one looks like a directory and the other one some kind of address
<jrib> they tell patch the path to the files it needs to patch
<jrib> kdebluetooth/bemused/kbemusedsrv.cpp.old kdebluetooth/bemused/kbemusedsrv.cpp
<ezzieyguywuf> ahhh
<ezzieyguywuf> i see
<ezzieyguywuf> so if i'm in that directory, i don't have to worry about -p right?
<jrib> so you are fine without a -p right
<ezzieyguywuf> i should be
<ezzieyguywuf> ok so recap
<jrib> if you were in kdebluetooth, then you would strip the first '/' with -p1
<ezzieyguywuf> but if i'm in bemused
<ezzieyguywuf> i'm fine
<ezzieyguywuf> correct?
<jrib> no
<jrib> well
<ezzieyguywuf> ?
<jrib> where you are now, you would use -p0 to tell it not to strip anything
<ezzieyguywuf> ok
<ezzieyguywuf> and by strip you mean take stuff off the end of where it thinks the files are
<ezzieyguywuf> right?
<jrib> if you pass no -p then it strips everything and you need to be in the same dir
<ezzieyguywuf> ok
<jrib> kdebluetooth/bemused/kbemusedsrv.cpp with -p1 will be bemused/kbemusedsrv.cpp
<ezzieyguywuf> well, if i ls right now i see both files
<jrib> kdebluetooth/bemused/kbemusedsrv.cpp with -p2 will be kbemusedsrv.cpp
<jrib> what does 'pwd' return?
<ezzieyguywuf> /home/wolfie/Desktop/kdebluetooth-1.0_beta2/kdebluetooth/bemused
<jrib> ok
<ezzieyguywuf> ok so i should run patch with no -p correct?
<ezzieyguywuf> or with -p0
<ezzieyguywuf> or are both the same
<jrib> that is ok here because both files are kdebluetooth/bemused/kbemusedsrv.cpp and kdebluetooth/bemused/amarokcontroller.cpp
<jrib> no -p
<ezzieyguywuf> ok i get it
<ezzieyguywuf> and this is going to compile the whole program using that patch
<ezzieyguywuf> correct?
<jrib> -p0 would say no
<jrib> I mean: no
<jrib> patch just patches (modifies) files
<ezzieyguywuf> oh
<ezzieyguywuf> so i have to have it installed first
<jrib> you should have patch
<ezzieyguywuf> cuz i'm running patch right now and the terminal is just kind of, froze
<jrib> hit ctrl-c
<ezzieyguywuf> no output
<ezzieyguywuf> that kills the program right?
<jrib> the syntax is:  patch > /path/to/file.patch
<jrib> ugh
<jrib> the syntax is:  patch < /path/to/file.patch
<ezzieyguywuf> oh!
<ezzieyguywuf> it works
<ezzieyguywuf> i did not think the < was needed for some reason
<ezzieyguywuf> wow thanks
<ezzieyguywuf> so now that the files are patched
<ezzieyguywuf> i have to compile the whole thing right, with those patched files?
<jrib> yes
<ezzieyguywuf> ok and i think that link you gave me will help with that
<ezzieyguywuf> dpkg-buildpackage
<jrib> yes
<ezzieyguywuf> ok
<ezzieyguywuf> i'll go try to figure out how that works
<ezzieyguywuf> i'll ask if i have any questions
<ezzieyguywuf> :-)
<ezzieyguywuf> ok so where exactly does dpkg need to be run from?
<ezzieyguywuf> it says "from the directory that was created for the package after downloading"
<ezzieyguywuf> i didn't use apt-get to download the package, i just got it from the website, so its on my desktop
<ezzieyguywuf> and i'm in the directory, but dpkg returns dpkg-parsechangelog: error: cannot open debian/changelog to find format: No such file or directory
<jrib> then follow the first set of instructions ubotu sent
<jrib> then you don't get a package though
<ezzieyguywuf> ?
<ezzieyguywuf> i'm sory i don't follow
<jrib> deb
<jrib> you don't get a deb if you don't use apt to grab a source package
<ezzieyguywuf> oh i see
<ezzieyguywuf> ok, let me go try this over with apt-get then
<ezzieyguywuf> jrib:kdebluetooth-1.0_beta2
<ezzieyguywuf> er h/o
<ezzieyguywuf>  Unable to find a source package for kdebluetooth-1.0_beta2
<jrib> that's not the name of the package
<jrib> no need to ping me in two channels :)
<ezzieyguywuf> oh sorry
<ezzieyguywuf> i don't know if you keep checking here
<ezzieyguywuf> how do i find the name of the package? cuz i need that particular beta version
<ezzieyguywuf> you know what, i was looking at the wrong link, i never checked the prvt message from ubotu
<ezzieyguywuf> let me go read that real quick :-)
<jrib> night
<n2diy> jrib: 73
<jrib> n2diy: ?
<jrib> 3874
<jrib> i win
<n2diy> jrib: google 73
<jrib> The Romans capture Masada ?
<jrib> The atomic number of tantalium ?
<n2diy> jrib: Wait please?
<jrib> k
<n2diy> jrib: Try this: http://www.ac6v.com/73.htm#73
<jrib> cool, never knew that
<n2diy> jrib: 10-4 :)
<jrib> 73
<n2diy> jrib: 73 OM :)
<ezzieyguywuf> jrib still here?
<pentux> hello Fritha - welcome to ubuntu-classroom
<aleph1> hi
<jrib> aleph1: is this after an upgrade or just random apt breakage?
<aleph1> powercut in the middle of "aptitude update"
<jrib> that wouldn't do it
<jrib> "upgrade" maybe?
<aleph1> sorry. yeah
<aleph1> but I think I have found a solution.
<jrib> k
<aleph1> I replaced /etc/init.d/mysql with "exit 0"
<aleph1> but thanks! :)
<jrib> aleph1: glad you got it
<dholbach> MOTU Q&A session in two minutes
<Amaranth> I forgot the name of the other channel :/
<dholbach> hello everybody :)
<dholbach> welcome to the MOTU Q&A Session!
<dholbach> who do we have here - can we go through a round of introductions? :)
<Amaranth> Oh, this isn't Open Week yet :)
<dholbach> I'm Daniel Holbach, MOTU for quite a while now and trying to make becoming a MOTU as easy and enjoyable as possible. :)
<dholbach> who else do we have here? :)
<persia> I'm Emmet Hikory, MOTU, and active with QA and library porting.
<fernando> I'm Fernando Ribeiro, trying to be a MOTU.
<dholbach> hey rulus, ntaylor0909, nalioth_, welcome to the session - we're just going through a round of introductions
<sommer> me... Adam Sommer I'm relatively new to the community and looking for ways to contribute.  Was at another QA meeting, but was called away before the end.
<zul_> im chuck short, member of the motu team amongst other things
 * dholbach high-fives sommer
<geser> I'm Michael Bienia, MOTU
<dholbach> who of you is interested in becoming a MOTU and has prepared some questions for us? :)
<rulus> dholbach: I'm just listening :)
<gaspa> andrea gasparini, not motu.
<gaspa> :-P
<sommer> I'm interested, but didn't come prepared with anything specific.
<dholbach> sommer, rulus, gaspa: great to have you around
<dholbach> anything you'd like to know about MOTU? contributing or ubuntu development?
<gaspa> there' s already a roadmap, or a list of things that i can do to help ubuntu development?
<dholbach> gaspa: sure
<dholbach> on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO we list quite a lot of different things you can start looking into
<dholbach> the 'bitesize' bugs for example are suited for new contributors for example
<dholbach> 'packaging' bugs deal with packaging related problems, that *might* be easy to fix
<gaspa> dholbach: ok, i saw only the hardy roadmap, but it's quite vague.
<dholbach> gaspa: we'll be fixing a lot of bugs, so I think that's a good way to get involved in the MOTU team
<gaspa> yep, just starting in it ;)
<dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Recipes will help you to play with the tools we use most
<norsetto> perhaps gaspa is referring to this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment ?
<huats> gaspa: and sometimes if you are doing stuffs on a bug with a MOTU called norsetto as a mentor on this bug, be prepared to do a lot of things, even for a bitesize bug... But you'll learn a lot...
<norsetto> huats: I never asked you to do a triple somersault .....
<dholbach> hey nealmcb
<dholbach> norsetto: not yet :)
<persia> gaspa: You might also take a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing, which has some suggestions on using the tools, and some of the basic processes for getting things uploaded.
<huats> dholbach: :-D
<gaspa> norsetto: I was referring to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyReleaseSchedule?highlight=%28hardy%29
<dholbach> gaspa: right, that page only explains the various phases of the release cycle we'll go through
<nealmcb> dholbach: howdy.  I was late to the other discussion, just caught up on the log, and figured I'd lurk some more here
<dholbach> and it's not even a final document yet :)
<norsetto> gaspa: yes, but I think if you want to know more about ubuntu development, you really should look at the wiki link I posted
<gaspa> dholbach: in fact i wasn't satisfied. ;)
<dholbach> nealmcb: excellent :)
<persia> gaspa: That's more a schedule to keep track of how release management affects our work.  The goals are more to implement as many features as we want prior to Feature Freeze, and fix as many bugs as possible.
<norsetto> persia: fix bugs? which bugs?
<dholbach> any other questions around packaging, MOTU, Ubuntu Development, processes?
 * norsetto forgot that the Bug Master is in the room
<persia> norsetto: All of them would be great, but most new people would do best with those with the bitesize tag.
<huats> norsetto: you mean the packaging king right ?
<dholbach> he must mean seb128 and pedro_ :)
<huats> dholbach: I have one question for you
<huats> :-)
<dholbach> huats: fire away
<norsetto> dholbach: how can a contributor submit a patch?
<dholbach> norsetto: good question :)
<dholbach> it's all explained at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
 * norsetto writes that down
<huats> right now, do what distribution we put in the changelog ? gutsy or gutsy-proposed ?
<dholbach> the gist of it is: if you're fixing a bug, attach the patch that you've produced and subscribe the reviewer team to it
<dholbach> for main/restricted that's ubuntu-main-sponsors
<norsetto> huats: hardy
<dholbach> for universe/multiverse that's ubuntu-multiverse-sponsors
<Amaranth> Whoa even I didn't know about requestsponsor
<persia> s/ubuntu-multiverse-sponsors/ubuntu-universe-sponsors/
<dholbach> If you've never produced a patch before: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Recipes/Debdiff might help you with that
<dholbach> persia: yes, sorry - was a bit distracted, as I just got a call :)
<dholbach> hiya blueyed
<blueyed> Hi dholbach :)
<dholbach> huats: if you want to fix a bug in gutsy (it's already release, so we can't upload to 'gutsy' itself any more), you'll need to follow http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<dholbach> (which has both instructions for main and universe)
<gaspa> ok, if i decide to write a patch for a bug in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO, what should i do to prevent  someone else from making the same work?
<dholbach> I just noticed that seb128 didn't do the most uploads after all: http://ubuntu.joejaxx.org/ :-)
<norsetto> gaspa: you should assign the bug to yourself
<gaspa> norsetto: i can't
<gaspa> i launchpad i can't modify nothing of the bug.
<norsetto> gaspa: you can't!? Ask for membership in the bugsquad then
<dholbach> gaspa: you need to login to launchpad and click for example on the status of the bug
<dholbach> norsetto: that's not required
<norsetto> dholbach: ah, yes, perhaps he is not logged
<gaspa> ... i wasn't able to do it... i'll retry...
<gaspa> no ,i'm logged...
<dholbach> gaspa: click for example on the status of the line in the middle of page, which has the status/sourcepackage etc information
<gaspa> i'll retry later, maybe i lost something.
<dholbach> gaspa: and follow up with information on the bug as you have new findings to report, that's also important to not do the same work twice
<dholbach> gaspa: alright, let me know if things still go wrong, or ask on #launchpad
<gaspa> yep
<gaspa> ah, but...
<nxvl> is there going to be Q&A meeting?
<norsetto> nxvl: right now
<dholbach> welcome nxvl :)
<persia> nxvl: #ubuntu-classroom
<nxvl> here or in #ubuntu-meetings?
<huats> I am experiencing some timeout with LP today too... so may be it is related to your pb gaspa
<persia> nxvl: here
<gaspa> if I assign the bug to me, when does it becomes fixed? when i attach a debdiff?
<nxvl> :D
<persia> gaspa: When it gets uploaded.  The changelog in your debdiff will close the bug.
<persia> gaspa: You'll unassign yourself when you add the debdiff, and use http://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess to get a sponsored upload.
<seb128> dholbach: thanks to the rocking contributors we had in the desktop team this cycle ;-)
<norsetto> gaspa: when you subscribe u-u-s, if your patch is accepted, the sponsor will mark the bug as fix-committed, and then, as persia said
<dholbach> seb128: care to advertise the DesktopTeam and what contributors can do in it? :)
<seb128> the desktop team is a wonderful place to contribute to the Ubuntu desktop ;-)
<coNP[uni]> Desktop Team definitely rocks :)
<seb128> we have a nice IRC channel (#ubuntu-desktop), a mailing list, a wiki (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam)
<seb128> the wiki has a summary of the team and pointers, we also have a TODO on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/TODO
<seb128> we welcome questions, etc on #ubuntu-desktop and usually contributors find sponsor easily for their patches or updates so feel free to join ;-)
<seb128> dholbach: good enough ? ;-)
<norsetto> seb128: what was that thing about champagne free for any patch uploaded?
<dholbach> seb128: sounds good - especially the kick-ass DesktopTeam/TODO page :)
<huats> seb128: If I wasn't already convinced I would have been....
<seb128> coNP[uni] is one of the rocking contributors which joined the team this cycle ;-)
<seb128> some things we are looking at for hardy BTW
<coNP[uni]> It is not impossible to become a MOTU
<coNP[uni]> :)
<seb128> - packaging GNOME 2.21.n to 2.22.1, listing annoy glitches laying around for too long that we should fix for the coming lts, make the wiki documentation nicer, and maybe switch to packaging in bzr if we can make the workflow easy enough ;-)
<dholbach> that sounds like a lot of action in the hardy cycle :-)
<seb128> yes
<seb128> would also be nice to have some webpage summary for things like version of the package in ubuntu, debian, upstream
<seb128> patches browsable easily for upstream also
<dholbach> also experimental versions
<seb128> well, I've abused enough this classroom with desktop advertising, I'm waiting for you on #ubuntu-desktop now ;-)
<dholbach> but yeah - sounds like a nice small project for somebody :)
<dholbach> ok. any other questions?
<dholbach> maybe a problem somebody has, we look at together?
 * norsetto welcomes giftnudel to the MOTU Q&A session
<sommer>  /me admits to still reading the packaging guide
<dholbach> sommer:  that's no problem
<dholbach> norsetto, coNP[uni], huats: do we have an easy bug we can tackle in the remainder of the session?
<persia> sommer: That's great.  Reading is probably the best way to get questions :)
 * norsetto checks
<coNP[uni]> bug 1
<coNP[uni]> Oh, no :(
<sommer> is it better to be proficient with packaging from scratch section before moving on?
<sommer> or jump to the more automated tools?
<norsetto> bug 154399 seems a nice bitesized one
<norsetto> ubotu seems to be sleeping: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/util-linux/+bug/154399
<dholbach> sommer: I think it's good to work on easy bugs to get a feeling of what you're dealing with
<persia> sommer: I'd recommend reading the entire guide to build familiarity, and then working with a bunch of different packages while chasing bugs, to see different implementations.  That will likely give a better understanding than trying to understand completely from the guide.
<sommer> persia, dholbach: ah, sounds good
<dholbach> norsetto: ok, so how do we attempt to fix it?
<persia> sommer: That's the big advantage of open-source :)  it's easy to build on others work.
<norsetto> dholbach: well, I would first check if nfs-utils is in the repo
<norsetto> dholbach: for instance apt-cache search nfs-utils
<norsetto> make sure you have an updated cache first
<norsetto> anyone has done that?
<dholbach> I don't have it
<dholbach> I have a source package called nfs-utils though - I used    apt-cache showsrc nfs-utils    for that
<norsetto> anyone know what that is?
<norsetto> do you know what is a source package?
<norsetto> dholbach: will you or shall I?
<dholbach> norsetto: go ahead :)
 * coNP[uni] votes for norsetto :)
<sommer> isn't a source package a package that will build multiple binaries?
<norsetto> ok, I try .....
<coNP[uni]> sommer: you can have one or more binaries built from a source package
<norsetto> sommer: yes, a source package its a pacjage that contains, as the name says, the sources, and the instructions for the build system on how to make binaries out of it
<norsetto> you download source packages with the apt-get command too; for instance apt-get source nfs-utils
<geser> if you have a deb-src line in /etc/apt/sources.list
<norsetto> so, you see, in this case there is a source package for nfs-utils, but there is no binary package
<norsetto> geser: yes ;-)
<dholbach> and the binary package is the .deb package that gets actually installed
<norsetto> if you do an apt-cache search nfs-utils you will see that nfs-utils is actually provided by another package, its a virtual package
<coNP[uni]> Actually you can also download a source package for a binary package, with apt-get source <binarypackagename>
<coNP[uni]> So you don't have to know the source package name.
<norsetto> now you just have to check if the man page object of the bug is really provided by the nfs-common package
<norsetto> one way to do it (there are many) is to download it, and check its content with a dpkg -c command
<giftnudel> isn't it sufficient to look at the file list for that?
<norsetto> giftnudel: you mean the one at http://packages.ubuntu.com/? As I said, there are many ways to do it
<giftnudel> well, you explained it already :)
<sommer> so to address the bug, would you change the mount man page to say install nfs-common instead of nfs-util?
<norsetto> sommer: if the man page is indeed in nfs-common, yes
<sommer> norsetto: but it may not be?
<sommer> ah you check the nfs-util package, correct?
<norsetto> sommer: I would also check the options section, to see that it indeed contains the mount options for nfs and nfs4
<giftnudel> ls
<giftnudel> ups :)
<geser> sommer: this is also a check if the information from the bug is correct
<sommer> yep, mount has options for nfs and nfs4
<norsetto> sommer: we should check that in the nfs man page too
<sommer> norsetto: okay, I'm not finding anything in the mount man page about nfs-utils though.
<norsetto> sommer: what distribution are you using?
<sommer> norsetto: Gutsy
<giftnudel> well I can see it there
 * geser too
<giftnudel> right at the bottom
<sommer> I did man mount... is that right
<giftnudel> yes
<giftnudel> then go to the end and you should see it
<sommer> woops I'm blind
<sommer> I see it now
<norsetto> sommer: I think it is because using space you end up with the header just at the end, so you may miss it
<sommer> norsetto: I used /nfs to do a search and when it highlighted the nfs part I skipped over the -utils at the end... heh
<norsetto> has any of you tried to check the nfs-common package, and its nfs page?
<giftnudel> at least the dpkg seems to contain it and debian/nfs-common.manpages wants to install it :)
<sommer> norsetto: trying to install it now.
<norsetto> also checking it with: http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_contents.pl?word=nfs.5.gz&searchmode=searchfilesanddirs&case=insensitive&version=gutsy&arch=i386
<norsetto> ok, so we checked the correctness of the bug report, the solution given was correct, do we all agree?
<sommer> I concur
<dholbach> what do we do now? :)
<norsetto> how do we actually patch this out, anyone?
<giftnudel> well, in the mount source package change the string?
<sommer> move the man page back to nfs-util, or change the man page of mount?
<giftnudel> the first idea is also nice :)
<norsetto> sommer: well, I think changing the man page of mount is more appropriate, but, is there anything else we should check first?
<sommer> why it was changed?
<norsetto> sommer: exactly .....
<sommer> probably in nfs-util changelog?
<norsetto> sommer: could be, we could also ask upstream, perhaps is something specific to ubuntu
<giftnudel> maybe there's a patch in debian already ...
<norsetto> giftnudel: good point
<norsetto> norsetto: anyhow, for the sake of the exercise, lets suppose we need to patch this
<norsetto> how would we go about it?
<sommer> apt-get source mount
<norsetto> in which source package is the mount man page?
<sommer> then find the man page file and edit it
<sommer> util-linux?
<giftnudel> sommer: yes, it's in tehre
<norsetto> sommer: thats what the reported said, seems like he knows what is doing, but lets check it
<proppy> hi, Q&A still going on ?
<dholbach> proppy: right now norsetto helps us to fix https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/util-linux/+bug/154399
<norsetto> ok, so everybody agrees is in there?
<proppy> ok
<giftnudel> finding the offending file is not that difficult, but then
<norsetto> giftnudel: yes?
<giftnudel> editing is not appropriate, so we need a patch, right?
<proppy> using cdbs-edit-patch ?
<norsetto> proppy: is the package using it already?
<giftnudel> how do you see that?
<sommer> giftnudel: why isn't editing the file appropriate?
<proppy> by checking dependencies in control and include in rules
<norsetto> there is also a nice util you can use to determine what patch system a package is using, its called what-patch, and its in ubuntu-dev-tools
<huats> sommer: since you won't easily remember every modification you've done... so there are tools to help you.... norsetto just mentions...
<persia> sommer: giftnudel: It depends on the package.  In general, patches are preferable to direct edits, but some packages don't use patches, and we avoid adding patch systems.  The tool norsetto advises may be the easiest way to decide.
<huats> sommer: you will edit the file, but with the tool
<sommer> ah... thanks I'm with ya
<nealmcb> pardon a query out of the blue: what is u-u-s?
<proppy> sommer: if the file you need to edit is not in debian/ then I've been told you need to patch
<norsetto> nealmcb: ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<nealmcb> :-)
 * proppy apt-get sourcing the package
<dholbach> nealmcb: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
<giftnudel> it doesn't seem that util-linux has patches in it already, at least I see none and the control file doesn't have dependencies on a patch system
<giftnudel> proppy: that's what I remembered, too
<sommer> so it's cool to directly edit this package?
<norsetto> giftnudel: I think you are correct, so in this case we have two options, either we do an inline patch or we include ourselves a patch system
<norsetto> personally, I will never go for inline, even in a simple case like this, but others may have differnt opinions
<nxvl> what are we working at? i losted lot of the conversations :S
<persia> norsetto: Please reconsider.  For many packages, we try to sync back to Debian, and some Debian maintainers are strongly opposed to patch systems, as it breaks their workflow.
<proppy> the package seems to do some man tweaking already
<proppy> 	perl -pi.bak -e 's/agetty/getty/g' debian/util-linux/usr/share/man/man8/getty.8 \
<norsetto> persia: yes, in thats case I simply revert it back when we merge
<proppy> debian/rules:71
<norsetto> but persia is right, we should try to stick with what the debian maintainer is doing, so, in this case we might have to do, as proppy suggested, a little hacking
<sommer> sweet... lets hack!
<giftnudel> its only one line, so it's probably not bad
<proppy> "as proppy suggested, a little hacking" I like the sound of that :)
<nxvl> is Q&A still going on?
<dholbach> nxvl: if you read the backlog, you will find that it's still going on :)
<proppy> norsetto: by inline you mean using sed/python/perl/awk/cat ?
<nxvl> dholbach: :D
<norsetto> proppy: or simply manually changing the source
<norsetto> the change will be in .diff.gz
<proppy> norsetto: how can you change something which is not in debian ?
<dholbach> LjL: ?
<LjL> dholbach: bot is down
<nxvl> dholbach: so what are we working at?
<nxvl> dholbach: MOTU/TODO?
<proppy> so you will end with a .diff.gz with 'outside of debian/ changes ?
<dholbach> nxvl: check out the back log - it's still the same bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/util-linux/+bug/154399
<proppy> norsetto: I thought it was not accepted
<norsetto> proppy: its debatable, personally, I don't like it, its makes it difficult to trace your changes
<giftnudel> proppy: probably a case of "Never ever do that, but know, it's just easier"
<giftnudel> (now, not know)
<proppy> giftnudel: norsetto: understood thanks for clearing it up
<sommer> norsetto: why is it harder to trace changes?  Wouldn't it show up in the debdiff?  also documented in changelog?
<norsetto> sommer: yes, but it is showing up in the .diff.gz too, and that change will be incremental
<dholbach> sommer: imagine you have 10 different patches all applied directly to the source
<norsetto> sommer: so, suppose you do 10 changes, how do you associate the changelog to the change?
<dholbach> sommer: they affect 30 different files, now you want to remove one patch of them, because you understood that it's obsolete
<proppy> norsetto: I guess we need also to patch SEE ALSO ?
<dholbach> it's easier, if you can just remove one patch file in debian/patches :)
<sommer> ah... I'm with you
<persia> sommer: Also consider that upstream may want your patches, and may only apply a subset.  It's a lot easier to deapply them separately when you manage them separately.
<norsetto> and you know immediately which one
<dholbach> great
<sommer> thanks, that makes sense now.
<dholbach> excellent
<norsetto> dholbach: are we running short on time?
<dholbach> if you guys want to continue, go ahead, that's fine - anybody who doesn't have time anymore, can go :)
<giftnudel> so for just a simple fix like that, there's nothing that speaks against it, but for bigger patches, individual patches are  better
<norsetto> so, what do we do once you have your patch? In this case corrected the line in the man page?
<norsetto> somebody mentioned a changelog?
<sommer> dch -i?
<norsetto> sommer: for instance
<norsetto> what is it going to be the new version number?
<persia> giftnudel: rather, it's better to follow the package you're working with.  Even a one-line change deserves a dedicated patch if the package has an patch system in use.
<giftnudel> right, I forgot that
<sommer> norsetto: good question... I'm still fuzzy on version numbering.
<proppy> norsetto: perl -pi.bak -e 's/nfs \(5\)/nfs-common \(5\)/g' correct ?
<norsetto> sommer: its not difficult, check what is in the changelog already
<norsetto> proppy: I like it when you talk to me like that ;-)
<proppy> norsetto: ubuntu2 ?
<norsetto> proppy: yes, in this case the old one was 2.13-8ubuntu1, so, since this is an ubuntu revision, we will use 2.13-8ubuntu2
<norsetto> what if the old one was 2.13-8 ?
<giftnudel> proppy: well, should nfs-utils not be changed to nfs-common?
<norsetto> brb
<proppy> giftnudel: you're right, my patch is bad :)
<proppy> giftnudel: I missread the bug report
<sommer> in 2.13-8. -8 is the debian package number correct?
<proppy> giftnudel: the package is to be changed, not the manpage name
<dholbach> sommer: yes
<dholbach> sommer: if we do an ubuntu change, we simply add ubuntu1 and then increment it
<sommer> dholbach: gotcha
<dholbach> sommer: if we were the first to package 2.14 (which is not in debian yet, we'd have 2.14-0ubuntu1
<norsetto> sorry about that, important phone call
<dholbach> norsetto: don't worry
<sommer> okay... so the 8 isn't the 8th ubuntu version?
<norsetto> ok, anything else we should do?
<norsetto> sommer, no its the debian revision
<persia> sommer: That's the Debian revision.  For any -XubuntuY, X is the Debian revision, and Y is the Ubuntu revision.
<dholbach> coNP[uni], persia, huats, geser are here too and can help out :)
 * dholbach is about to call it a day
<norsetto> a little thingie that we should not forget .....
<dholbach> thanks everybody for showing up, thanks norsetto for running the biggest part of the session :)
<norsetto> since we made an ubuntu modification, we should also change the maintainer
<proppy> giftnudel: perl -pi.bak -e 's/nfs-utils package must be installed/nfs-common package must be installed/g' better ?
<sommer> cool... I think I'm good on revision numbers now too, thanks fellas
<sommer> dholbach: thank you
<dholbach> rock on :)
<giftnudel> I wanted to help so often, but everytime I wanted to fix such an easy thing, there was so much I needed to think of and then I resigned again ...
 * dholbach hugs y'all - see you around, guys
<norsetto> giftnudel: please come to #ubuntu-motu and ask for help, we are there also for this
<giftnudel> yeah, I sometimes forget that ...
<sommer> norsetto: what would we change the maintainer to?
<proppy> it is not enough to know *what* line to add, we should also figure *where* :)
<sommer> I see it's already Ubuntu-Core
<norsetto> sommer: yes, in this case you are correct
<giftnudel> proppy: somewhere in the mount pos-inst part of control?
<giftnudel> or that vincinity
<giftnudel> eh, rules
<giftnudel> or the mount.postint
<giftnudel> so many places where this might work ...
<proppy> where is the mount.8 installed ?
<proppy> oh I just grepped it in mount.files
<norsetto> ok guys, I have to go too, it was nice talking to you, see you again in #ubuntu-motu
<sommer> norsetto: thanks I appreciate your help
<giftnudel> yes, hopefully
<proppy> giftnudel: why not in rules install: target ?
<giftnudel> well, I don't know
<proppy> that's where there is already some patching going on
<proppy> me neither
<giftnudel> yes, for this reason it's probably better there
<sommer> I gotta run too... thanks all
<proppy> but the install: target is large which line :)
<proppy> maybe near 	dh_installdocs -i -s
<proppy> just after the endif
<proppy> oops maybe Q&A is ended ? anybody stillup ?
<coNP[uni]> proppy: sure
<coNP[uni]> But you can also ask on -motu as always.
<proppy> o k
<proppy> giftnudel: still up to work on it ?
<LjL> Ubotwo: PART
#ubuntu-classroom 2007-10-20
<BillG> hola
<BillG> alguien habla espaÃ±ol
<BillG> speak spanish
<nalioth> World: it is not really wise to use 3d party solutions for things in Ubuntu
<nalioth> !java
<ubotu> To install a Java compiler/interpreter on Ubuntu, look at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Java - For the Sun Java runtime install sun-java5-jre from the !Multiverse repository. Enable the backports repository on Edgy to install sun-java6-jre
<nalioth> no need to download anything from Sun
<World> ?
<nalioth> World: the bot just told you what to do
<World> I'm like only a week old on linux. Former windows user.
<nalioth> !info sun-java5-source
<ubotu> sun-java5-source: Sun Java(TM) Development Kit (JDK) 5.0 source files. In component multiverse, is optional. Version 1.5.0-13-0ubuntu1 (gutsy), package size 16074 kB, installed size 17216 kB
<nalioth> and there's your sun JDK
<nalioth> both installable from the multiverse repository
<nalioth> !synaptic
<ubotu> synaptic is Ubuntu's Graphical Package Manager. For a good howto see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SynapticHowto
<nalioth> use synaptic to find and install the software that interests you
<World> synaptic only has 1.4
<nalioth> are you using Gusty Gibbon or an earlier release?
<World> I have the newest 7.10 64amd. This is the only info I have "Note: You need to have the PLF repositories to get the sun-j2re1.5 package"
<World> I run a game server and that is min. I can use.
<nalioth> PLF repos are really old info
<nalioth> really really out of date
<nalioth> World: open synaptic please
<World> Ah, ok. The bot sends me to "To install proprietary Java, you must have the Multiverse repository enabled."
<World> It's open
<nalioth> search for "sun-java5-source"
<World> Bingo. That's it?
<nalioth> you can read the description
<World> God bless you. Now just mark it for install and apply?
<nalioth> if you want it
<World> Thank you very much.
<nalioth> you're welcome
<nalioth> !msg
<ubotu> Please ask your questions in the channel so that other people can also benefit AND help you. Please don't PM a user in the channel without asking first, some find it rude.
<jrib> what did you type as the command?
<fit4lfe> readlink -f $(python2.5)
<jrib> no
<jrib> readlink -f $(which pythor)
<jrib> readlink -f $(which python)
<jrib> just like that
<fit4lfe> readlink-f$(which python)
<fit4lfe> bash: readlink-f/usr/bin/python: No such file or directory
<jrib> you missed a space
<fit4lfe> k
<fit4lfe> yeah readlink doesn't even exist
<fit4lfe> one sec
<Allenwr> hello
<jrib> readlink is in coreutils... you probably have it
<fit4lfe> hmmm
<fit4lfe> wow
<fit4lfe> jrib
<fit4lfe>  readlink -f$(which python)
<fit4lfe> readlink: invalid option -- /
<fit4lfe> you sure thats the command
<jrib> still missing a space
<fit4lfe> where
<jrib> you should use a monospace font
<jrib> readlink -f $(which python)
<jrib>             ^
<jrib>            ^
<fit4lfe> ./usr/bin/python2.5
<fit4lfe> sorry
<jrib> that's not exactly what it says right?
<fit4lfe> right there is no .
<fit4lfe> period in the front
<jrib> apt-cache policy python-gtk2
<fit4lfe> gtk2
<fit4lfe> python-gtk2:
<fit4lfe>   Installed: 2.10.4-0ubuntu3
<fit4lfe>   Candidate: 2.10.4-0ubuntu3
<fit4lfe>   Version table:
<fit4lfe>  *** 2.10.4-0ubuntu3 0
<fit4lfe>         500 http://archive.ubuntu.com feisty/main Packages
<fit4lfe>         100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
<jrib> python -c 'import pygtk'
<fit4lfe> Traceback (most recent call last):
<fit4lfe>   File "<string>", line 1, in <module>
<fit4lfe> ImportError: No module named pygtk
<jrib> apt-cache policy python-gobject
<fit4lfe> gobject
<fit4lfe> python-gobject:
<fit4lfe>   Installed: 2.12.3-0ubuntu3
<fit4lfe>   Candidate: 2.12.3-0ubuntu3
<fit4lfe>   Version table:
<fit4lfe>  *** 2.12.3-0ubuntu3 0
<fit4lfe>         500 http://archive.ubuntu.com feisty/main Packages
<fit4lfe>         100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
<jrib> python -c 'import sys; print sys.path'
<fit4lfe> http://rafb.net/p/B6XbPf12.html
<fit4lfe> thats my sys.path
<fit4lfe> from python
<jrib> fit4lfe: do you have /var/lib/python-support/python2.5/pygtk.py?
<fit4lfe> yes
<jrib> well something messed up your sys.path
<fit4lfe> hmm
<fit4lfe> how can I fix tit
<fit4lfe> it
<fit4lfe> jrib how can i fix it
<jrib> you need to figure out how it was modified
<jrib> which I don't know offhand
<fit4lfe> can't I just change the path
<fit4lfe> and add it back in
<jrib> yes
<fit4lfe> can you tell me how
<jrib> I don't know offhand
<fit4lfe> k
<fit4lfe> well thank you so much for getting me this far
<jrib> append '/var/lib/python-support/python2.5' and then try the import again in your python shell
<jrib> to at least test the theory...
<fit4lfe> in the python or shell
<jrib> python
<fit4lfe> hmm confused
<jrib> unfortunately I need to get to bed now
<fit4lfe> jrib python -c 'append /var/lib/python-support/python2.5'
<jrib> sys.path is a list
<jrib> sys.path.append('foobar')
<fit4lfe> ok
<jrib> do it in a python shell, not with -c
<jrib> night
<fit4lfe> night
<fit4lfe> thanks
<fit4lfe> jrib sweet i got it
<fit4lfe> I think
<fit4lfe> i did an import pygtk and it worked
<jrib> k now you need to figure out how to make your default sys.path sane again
<fit4lfe> what you mean
<jrib> your append is not permanent
<fit4lfe> I suppose its just in memory then
<fit4lfe> yeah cause i just tried update-manager
<fit4lfe> didn't work
<begemot> Hello... Is someone here?
<begemot> steveb@microsoft.com
<begemot> Hello! If you tired and get stress, please defecate here: steveb@microsoft.com . You will feel better!
<begemot> Have a good day.
<gaurav_> ... lol
<eyedol> anything going on here?
<sn0> hey eyedol , monday i believe :)
<eyedol> okay thanks. can't wait
<sn0> :) good to hear
<Elrian> Hello
#ubuntu-classroom 2007-10-21
<epidodi> can anyone help with some commands I entered and tell me if I borked something?
<nalioth> epidodi: nobody in #ubuntu could help?
<epidodi> there was no answers
<epidodi> my problem is probably minor compared to all the upgrade stuff going on
<nalioth> got a pastebin?
<epidodi> gconftool-2 -t str --set /apps/metacity/global_keybindings/run_command_9 "<Control><Alt>Delete"
<epidodi> gconftool-2 -t str --set /apps/metacity/keybinding_commands/command_9 "gnome-system-monitor"
<epidodi> Those commands worked under feisty
<nalioth> 0_o out of my league  :(
<epidodi> o
<epidodi> troubleshooting them are out of my league too
<vish18281> hi guys, i tried to check out d LIVE CD for 7.10 n check out d desktop effects. though i hav a ATI Mobility Radeon X1400 graphics card i'm not able 2 enable d effects. i'm a noob wit linux. any help guys?
<por100pre1> Some of those cards have been blacklisted, not sure which ones. Read this: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=582112
<ctsit> sorry I'm new at this is anyone on line?
<bernini> hola
<kurkoten> hola
<MekApelsin> kurkoten: hello
<kurkoten> hi MekApelsin ..
<kurkoten> where u from
<MekApelsin> sweden, i think discussions go in #ubuntu-classroom-chat
<kurkoten> ok tnks
<Delvien> Isnt it openweek ?
<gotiniens> net yet
<Geraner> not yet
<Delvien> oop
<Delvien> what time does it start
<Delvien> oh snap, UTC my bad
<Delvien> thats what 9pm EST?
<nalioth> what year is this?
<gotiniens> 2007?
 * sgtd offers some ntp...
<[per0las]> bem fui cuidem-se fiquem bem
#ubuntu-classroom 2008-10-13
<Obuntu> hi all
<wp> jrib: okay
<jrib> hi wp
<jrib> wp: vim /path/to/file
<wp> jrib: yes
<wp> jrib: then how do i select all?
<jrib> wp: "*yG
<jrib> then middle click with your mouse in your browser to paste
<wp> jrib: what does that mean?.... okay, the middle mouse button, but "ctrl + insert = copy" is true right?
<jrib> no
<jrib> wp: after you open vim you press the keys I am putting on the next line to copy:
<jrib> "*yG
<wp> jrib: okay tried it the vim said "1407837 lines yanked" but when I wanted to paste it nothing happened
<jrib> wp: how did you try to paste?
<jrib> why are you pasting so many lines?
<wp> jrib: middle mouse button, and ctrl-v.... because I have not heard of another easyer way
<wp> jrib: I need all those lines in one dialog box in forefox at the same time
<jrib> wp: try one line to make sure you are doing right
<jrib> do this in vim:
<jrib> "*yy
<jrib> then try to middle click to paste
<wp> "*yy does nothing in vim, and wont copy anything
<jrib> :/
<jrib> are you just trying to pastebin this file by the way?
<wp> nope
<jrib> what was the problem with gedit again?
<wp> when I use it to show 1407837 lines of text my computer goes very slow... when I try to copy all the lines then my computer are on the verge of crashing and wont copy it all
<wp> it at all
<jrib> ok
<jrib> wp: sudo apt-get install vim
<jrib> vim-tiny is apparently not able to do what we ask
<persia> Hrm?  vim-tiny supports yank
<wp> how do I quit vin?
<wp> vim
<persia> However vim only yanks to the internal buffer : it doesn't propagate to other applications.
<jrib> wp: :q
<jrib> persia: right, we were trying to copy to the clipborad
<persia> Right, but even vim-full doesn't do that with yank.
<wp> persia: is there a good way of copy/past 1407837 lines of text into a firefox dialog?
<jrib> wfm
<persia> Hrm.  Odd.
<wp> done installing vim
<jrib> "* corresponds to the X buffer and "+ for the ctrl-c ctrl-v one
<jrib> s/buffer/register
<jrib> or whatever
<jrib> wp: try opening the file again then do:
<persia> wp, Try listening to jrib.  If that doesn't work, either use a GUI text editor to load the text, or something like klipper, glipper, or xsel.
<jrib> yeah, xsel is a good idea
<jrib> "*yy
<jrib> then try middle clicking in your browser.  You should get the first line
<wp> i dont... i get the old clipboard... that were the name right?
<jrib> wp: let's try a different way then
<jrib> wp: :q  to close vim
<jrib> wp: install xclip
<wp> done instaling xclip
<jrib> wp: then run: xclip -i /path/to/file
<persia> jrib, When you're done, if you figure out which vim script you have installed that makes it work, I'd be happy to have a pointer :)
<jrib> persia: doesn't work for you either?
<persia> Nope :)
<jrib> persia: vim --version | grep xterm_clipboard     returns something?
<jrib> with a + of course :)
<persia> Yes.
<jrib> hmm, /me tries in a fresh vbox
<jrib> persia: are you in gnome?  Seems to work without any ~/.vim* after installing vim-gnome
<persia> jrib, Hrm.  I use vim-full.  Maybe that's the difference.  I'll investigate a bit.  Thanks.
#ubuntu-classroom 2008-10-17
<soundray> AlexC: I understand you've tried displayconfig-gtk
<AlexC> yes
<soundray> AlexC: did you find a display setting there that matched your monitor?
<AlexC> I also tried renaming xorg,.conf to xorg,conf.save and restarting X
<AlexC> TY=The highest choices offered are 1280x1024 and 1400x800
<AlexC> I have selected as my monitor LCD 1680x1050
<AlexC> My video driver is for ATI Radeon
<AlexC> It should work. But it doesnt
<soundray> AlexC: did you change the Model setting away from "Plug and Play"?
<AlexC> Yes.
<AlexC> I have selected as my monitor LCD 1680x1050
<AlexC> I restarted and rebooted several times
<soundray> What did you do after that?
<soundray> Did you click on Test ?
<AlexC> then I went into preferences->Screen Resolution but the highest resolution offered remains 1280x1024
<soundray> Please, for now, answer only my questions
<soundray> Did you click on Test ?
<AlexC> Yes
<soundray> What happened?
<AlexC> It displayed a grey hash pattern and asked if I wanted to save my settings. I said yes.
<soundray> Okay. Are you at the poor resolution right now?
<AlexC> I am at 1280x1024. There is a 1440x900 option also.
<soundray> Okay. When you do 'gksudo displayconfig-gtk' now, does it still show LCD 1680x1024 under Model?
<AlexC> I have just switched to 1440x900. I dopnt like this one either..
<AlexC> let me try
<soundray> AlexC: can you please, just while I'm helping you, not do anything other than what's in my train of thought?
<AlexC> yes it still shows LCD Panel 1680x1050
<AlexC> (sorry)
<soundray> Okay, good.
<soundray> Please put your /etc/X11/xorg.conf on a pastebin so I can have a look at it.
<AlexC> Sure. (refresh my memory - what is the link to pastbin?
<soundray> !pastebin
<ubot5`> pastebin is a service to post multiple-lined texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu.com (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic)
<soundray> Oh, ubottu's here, too. Good
<soundray> ubot5`: Hi
<ubot5`> Hi! Welcome to #ubuntu-classroom!
<AlexC> Its there
<soundray> AlexC: you know the drill
<soundray> I need the link
<AlexC> Oops
<AlexC> I am looking for the link url but not finding it.
<soundray> You just pasted it, didn't you? In Firefox?
<AlexC> Yes
<soundray> So look in the location bar
<AlexC> It shows on the left under Alex Chigos
<AlexC> http://pastebin.com/m332691d4
<AlexC> Sorry
<AlexC> I am very frustrated. Not at my best
<soundray> Where do these modelines come from? Did you put them in by hand?
<soundray> Line 62 to 71
<soundray> *Lines
<AlexC> Nope. I tried that but it didnt work. This xorg.conf was automatically generated after renaming my original file.
<soundray> It's strange that it doesn't have a mode for the resolution you want
<soundray> Would you mind starting from scratch?
<AlexC> By the way. that 1400x1050@60 never appears as an option in either displayconfig-gtk or Preferences->tion
<AlexC> Sure
<AlexC> Please tell me what to do.
<soundray> Okay, exit displayconfig if you haven't already
<AlexC> I have
<soundray> AlexC: in terminal, do    mv /etc/X11/xorg.conf /etc/X11/xorg.conf-backup-pre-soundray
<soundray> sorry
<AlexC> OK
<soundray> AlexC: in terminal, do   sudo mv /etc/X11/xorg.conf /etc/X11/xorg.conf-backup-pre-soundray
<AlexC> done
<soundray> Now run 'gksudo displayconfig-gtk' again. Model should be "Plug & Play" again.
<AlexC> Nw says unknown
<AlexC> No says unknown
<soundray> Ah
<AlexC> (encouraging sound)
<soundray> Okay, just click on it and select LCD panel 1680x1024 again (that's your native resolution, correct?)
<AlexC> OK
<AlexC> done
<soundray> Don't bother with Test, just save and pastebin me your new /etc/X11/xorg.conf
<AlexC> http://pastebin.com/d585b1f14
<soundray> Okay, that's annoying... it's back to what it was.
<AlexC> Ah (more encouraging sound)
<soundray> Shall we try and insert a mode for 1680x1024 manually?
<AlexC> Lets
<AlexC> Please guide me
<soundray> The alternative would be for you to look into an ATI proprietary thing called Catalyst, which I know nothing about
<AlexC> I am editing the file now
<AlexC> Catalyst is for windows (I thiink)
<soundray> I've heard they have it for Linux as well now
<AlexC> I have been through this with red hat. I got it to work by editing xorg,.conf manually
<soundray> Okay, give me a minute to find a proper modeline
<AlexC> I tried copying the lines from my red hat machine into my ubuntu machine but it did not help
<soundray> Do you have that version of xorg.conf still?
<AlexC> I think so
<AlexC> Do you want me to pastebin it?
<soundray> Yes, if it's reasonably easy to find
<AlexC> Would you like the entire reed hat xorg.conf or the modified ubuntu one with the correct video driver entries?
<soundray> modified ubuntu one
<AlexC> OK
<AlexC> http://pastebin.com/m48a8fa0d
<soundray> Theres a slight strangeness in that the modeline for 1680 has no hsync/vsync appendix
<soundray> You didn't just miss that from the original -- did you?
<AlexC> I noticed that. I suspect it has to do with the different versions of xorg between Red Hat EL ES 4 and Ubuntu 8.02
<AlexC> Is the file truncated in the post?
<soundray> Yes
<AlexC> Let me post it again
<soundray> And it's word-wrapped
<AlexC> http://pastebin.com/m7bdb4e7d
<AlexC> I dont know about the word wrap. I am editing in a terminal window. That is what it does.
<AlexC> In the file it is not wrapped.
<soundray> Now it's more truncated
<soundray> Do a 'cat /path/filename' and highlight that to paste
<AlexC> When I click on the link ai just sent you, it appears to be complete.
<soundray> Okay
<soundray> I'd like to see the log when you use this config.
<soundray> Can you make it current, restart X and pastebin the output from
<soundray> grep 1680 /var/log/Xorg.0.log
<AlexC> Should I copy it over and restart X then come back to the #ubuntu-classroom
<soundray> Yes, please
<AlexC> OK
<soundray> I'll wait
<AlexC> http://pastebin.com/m620a8c96
<AlexC> Soundray - still there?
<soundray> Yes
<AlexC> just the lines containig 1680
<soundray> It looks all good... Still no 1680 in System-Preferences-Screen Resolution?
<AlexC> Nope - just checked
<soundray> Do you have the model name of the LCD panel there?
<AlexC> I think so
<soundray> Are you going to tell me?
<AlexC> I had to get a magnifying glass. There is no model number printed on the monitor front or back
<AlexC> Neither on the box
<AlexC> Let me check the invoice
<soundray> Do you get any output when you run xrandr ?
<AlexC> E2009FP
<AlexC> yes
<AlexC> I will post it
<soundray> Please
<AlexC> http://pastebin.com/m6cc8cbf
<soundray> What happens when you do
<AlexC> ?
<soundray> xrandr --output VGA-0 --auto
<AlexC> Not even a blink
<AlexC> Nothing changes
<AlexC> Can I specify the resolution in xrandr
<soundray> yes
<soundray> I have to read up how
<AlexC> I tried $xrandr -s 1680x1050
<AlexC> got Size 1680x1050 not found in available modes
<soundray> Yeah
<soundray> It's listed as the maximum, but it's not listed as a possible mode
<soundray> Could you send me your entire /var/log/Xorg.0.log ?
<AlexC> It is interesting that it says Screen 0: minimum 320 x 200, current 1280 x 1024, maximum 1680 x 1050 but then does not list 1680x1050 in mode list
<soundray> You can use https://fileexchange.imperial.ac.uk if it's too big for pastebin
<soundray> Yes, indeed
<soundray> That's why I think another look at the log is in order
<AlexC> Your email address is requuested
<soundray> soundray at imperial ac uk
<AlexC> is that soundray@imperial_ac.uk?
<soundray> AlexC: no
<soundray> You're not meant to repeat it here
<soundray> Why do you think I obfuscated it?
<AlexC> Sorry, it is asking me to put something there.
<soundray> Look at the https address, that should give you a clue
<AlexC> gotit
<soundray> This channel is publicly logged. You've just tripled my spam volume
<AlexC> https://fileexchange.imperial.ac.uk/int/3a6b1da3d43/Xorg.0.log
<AlexC> I am so very sorry
<soundray> It's very weird. All it ever says is that 1680x1050 is supported, so it should be fine -- but it obviously isn't
<soundray> If it was my computer, I'd try the proprietary ATI driver next.
<soundray> Do you want instructions for that?
<AlexC> Please
<soundray> System-Administration-Hardware Drivers -- enable the ATI driver and follow the instructions. You will probably have to log out and back in -- I'll hang around.
<soundray> Might even ask you to reboot
<AlexC> When I do System->Admin->Hardware Drivers I get a window that is somewhat empty and says  No proprietry drivers are in use on this system.
<soundray> Dang
<AlexC> My sentiments exactly
<soundray> Maybe envyng would force it
<soundray> but I have no experience with it
<soundray> Should be straightforward, though
<AlexC> envying?
<soundray> envyng
<soundray> !info envyng
<AlexC> apt-get install envyng?
<soundray> Think so -- hold on...
<soundray> !info envyng-gtk
<soundray> Bot is dead.
<soundray> apt-get install envyng-gtk should do it
<AlexC> it is now installed.
<AlexC> cool
<soundray> Is it running?
<AlexC> running it now
<AlexC> It is downloading something
<soundray> Yes, that's what it's for
<AlexC> building . . .
<soundray> The latest ATI Linux driver
<AlexC> complete restarting - be right back
<AlexC> soundray are you there
<soundray> Yes
<AlexC> I rebooted. It came up at 640x480. I run displayconfig-gtk and selected 1280x1024
<soundray> Depressing
<AlexC> I then tried to run catalyst and it said there was a problem initializing the catalyst driver
<AlexC> No ATI graphics driver is installed or the ATI driver is not functioning properly
<soundray> I've been thinking that there might be a hardware initialization issue
<soundray> Oh envyng hasn't done its job properly either, then
<AlexC> Please install the ATI driver appropriate for your harware or configure it with aticonfig
<AlexC> aticonfig gives me 8 pages of usage notes
<soundray> Yeah, that one's horrible
<AlexC> I tried aticonfig --initial and got seg fault
<soundray> Here's another thing to try
<soundray> Assuming that it's initialization trouble
<AlexC> should I re,pve envyng?
<soundray> Do you know how to set a boot option?
<AlexC> can you be more specific?
<soundray> AlexC: I don't think it's done anything, so you might keep it around for when a driver becomes available
<AlexC> I can press esc at grub to go into the menu.
<soundray> AlexC: yes, that's what I'd like you to try
<AlexC> Then I think I press E to edit the kernel line
<soundray> then hit E on the default boot entry to edit,
<AlexC> What should I append
<soundray> then E again on the kernel line
<soundray> hold on...
<AlexC> Do you think envyng will interfere?
<soundray> No
<AlexC> OK
<soundray> vga=866
<AlexC> OK
<AlexC> I will be right back
<soundray> It's a bit of a shot in the dark
<AlexC> Hi Soundray
<AlexC> Hi Soundray
<AlexC> Here I am
<soundray> Here we all are
<DarkGu1> Soundray, alexc
<DarkGu1> Hello
<soundray> It's strange that
<soundray> Wherever you go there you are
<DarkGu1> The page you gave me is 404
<AlexC> Hi DarkGu1
<soundray> Buckaroo Banzai was right
<DarkGu1> hey
<DarkGu1> ???
<soundray> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BootOptions
<soundray> Works here
<AlexC> Soundray - it didnt like that video mode. It gave me the option to scan which I tried. I then chose the highest option it offered me
<soundray> AlexC: this was about initialisation of the monitor
<AlexC> That scrambled my screen
<AlexC> I was able to go to Alt-F1 and copy my xorg.conf back and reboot
<AlexC> I am back to 1280x1024
<DarkGu1> AlexC: what's your monitors maker
<AlexC> Dell
<soundray> AlexC: I was hoping that being initialised with vga=866 would make it more cooperative
<AlexC> I suspect it may be a samsung oem
<DarkGu1> soundray: I'm going to reboot. Wait here
<soundray> Oh, I've got an order
<AlexC> Yes but it rejected that mode and offered me other choices
<soundray> AlexC: I see
<AlexC> scan listed my choices
<AlexC> I had to pick something so I chose the highest number
<soundray> What was that?
<AlexC> Perhaps not the best choice
<AlexC> I dont know
<soundray> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VESA_BIOS_Extensions#Linux_video_mode_numbers
<AlexC> My short term memory isn't what it used to be
<soundray> How old are you?
<AlexC> none of those was listed as a choice
<AlexC> (from your link)
<soundray> No, they are graphical modes
<soundray> scan only lists text modes
<AlexC> only text modes ie e 162 132x44
<AlexC> It did say mode 866 not available
<AlexC> I am 52
<AlexC> I am a Python (pygtk) and C developer
<AlexC> I have been programming since 1980
<AlexC> I am usually pretty good at this kindd of thing
<soundray> I started programming in 1980 :)
<AlexC> I only use the irc as a last resort after exhausting my other choices including google
<soundray> Didn't keep it up, though
<AlexC> No I am very active
<soundray> All I write these days are bash scriptes
<AlexC> I am not near a pen and paper and did not write it down
<DarkGu1> soundray
<soundray> *scripts
<DarkGu1> Did you say vga=866
<AlexC> yes
<soundray> yes
<DarkGu1> It wouldn't let me do it
<DarkGu1> Said unrecognized or something
<soundray> Well, it wasn't the best choice
<AlexC> yes - mode 866 not available - then it listed about 8 modes + scan
<DarkGu1> Any other options?
<AlexC> I chose scan
<soundray> 791 should work everywhere
<AlexC> I got a list of text modes
<AlexC> I chose one
<DarkGu1> I doubt a boot option will help
<AlexC> So do you want me to try again with 791?
<soundray> 791 is 1024x768 at 16bit
<AlexC> I can already get that
<soundray> DarkGu1: I've fixed at least one strangely behaving machine with that
<DarkGu1> soundray: But I need 1400by1500 with 24 bit
<soundray> That number keeps changing, DarkGu1
<DarkGu1> What number?
<soundray> I guess you mean 1440x1050
<AlexC> Remember that xrandr said my monitor could do 1680 x 1050 but did not list that option
<DarkGu1> No I don't
<DarkGu1> I mean 1400by1050
<soundray> AlexC: DarkGu1's xrandr says maximum 1280x800
<soundray> It's all too weird for me
<soundray> Sorry I couldn't help guys
<AlexC> Dang
<DarkGu1> Are the two sound rays the same
<soundray> DarkGu1: are there two of me?
<DarkGu1> Yes, on e gold, one green
<soundray> Things are getting ever weirder
<AlexC> soundray - are you part of the ubuntu dev team?
<soundray> No
<AlexC> double dang
<AlexC> I wish I could find a regular 19" monitor (not wide)
<AlexC> They seem to have stopped making them
<AlexC> This machine is for a customer and is scheduled to be installed monday morning
<AlexC> I will have a difficult tome dancing arouind this
<AlexC> I will have a difficult time dancing arouind this
<AlexC> I have been on the ubuntu page since 1:00 EST trying to fix this. It is now 6:25
<AlexC> thats a long time with no results.
<AlexC> I very much appreciate your help.
<soundray> Agreed
<soundray> Is the graphics card very recent?
<AlexC> I thought ubuntu was "the linux that just works"
<AlexC> No
<soundray> Graphics is always a problem, esp. ATI and NVidia
<AlexC> I have been installing this exact configuration (Dell Power Edge Server SC1430) with Red Hat Enterpreise Linux for at least 2 years. Red Hat works with this config
<AlexC> If not ATI and nVidia, then what?
<soundray> Intel worked out of the box for me
<AlexC> Are they not the two most popular video cards in the industry?
<soundray> They certainly are
<AlexC> So the guys at Ubuntu just thought they would ignore that fact?
<soundray> And they happen to be made by the most un-enlightened companies around, as far as free software is concerned
<AlexC> Ore the guys at xorg
<soundray> It's not a lack of effort on Ubuntu's part
<AlexC> How about Dell?
<AlexC> Maybe someone should let them klnow
<soundray> You can't write a free video driver without open specifications
<soundray> Oh, they are being told all the time
<AlexC> Again, the most popular manufacturer in ths business
<soundray> Torvalds has threatened closing the kernel API to proprietary modules
<AlexC> That will driver more people away from linux
<soundray> Possibly
<soundray> Well, the fact that it hasn't happened says something
<AlexC> I think Linux is a pretty smart guy.
<AlexC> I think Linus is a pretty smart guy.
<soundray> But there are vocal hardliners among the kernel devs who wouldn't give a toss about popularity
<AlexC> I do have a problem with the kernel versioning thing!
<soundray> Yeah, and he's only 13
<AlexC> I used to be able to run one version of my X-Med software on any rev of modern linux
<AlexC> Now I must compile on 4 different machines
<AlexC> argh
<soundray> Medical practice software?
<AlexC> yes
<soundray> Cool
<soundray> I'm a doctor
<AlexC> X-Med is written in C
<AlexC> my new product, Cybax is written in pygtk
<AlexC> It runs on linux, mac and windows
<AlexC> This server will be running X-Med
<AlexC> cybax is still being developd
<AlexC> It is very cool
<AlexC> What kind of doctor?
<soundray> Is it for appointments and such, or for medical records as well?
<soundray> Radiologist
<AlexC> All of the above - including medical records, billing, appointments and document management
<AlexC> Do you know ali?
<soundray> HL7 compliant?
<soundray> No
<AlexC> He is an anesthesiologist in the UK
<soundray> On IRC?
<AlexC> X-Med is Hl7 compliant. Cybax will be
<soundray> Wow, that must have been hard work...
<AlexC> Yes - I wrote X-Med single handedly
<AlexC> I have help with Cybax
<AlexC> We are using an indian outsourcing company and one of my partners is an ophthalmologist/prrogrammer
<soundray> I worked for a company once who were selling image management software
<AlexC> What software?
<AlexC> Cameleo
<AlexC> ?
<soundray> They were aiming to make it HL7 compliant, but went bust before they could :)
<AlexC> I see
<AlexC> I am waiting for a rediologist to read an MRI I had today
<AlexC> on my right medial malleolus
<soundray> Oh -- nothing bad I hope
<AlexC> to rule out osteomyelitis
<soundray> Bad twisted ankle?
<AlexC> I have an ulcer that has fusarium fungus in it
<soundray> Nasty
<AlexC> My infectious disease doctor wants to be sure it is not in the bone before she prescrribes mefs
<AlexC> My infectious disease doctor wants to be sure it is not in the bone before she prescrribes meds
<AlexC> I hope not
<soundray> I bet the med students are all keen to see you
<AlexC> I saw the images - there were no obvious lights or dark spots on the malleolus that I could see
<AlexC> But I am not a doctor
<AlexC> I just make it a point to understand things about my body (and others)
<soundray> It would be rare for a fungal ulcer to penetrate into the bone
<AlexC> I was a pre-veteranary student when I got stupid and got married
<AlexC> That's encouraging
<AlexC> My ID dr is just being through
<AlexC> My ID dr is just being thorough
<soundray> ID?
<AlexC> I also play keyboards in a Yes triburte band
<soundray> :)
<AlexC> (www.x-med/com/MP3/
<AlexC> there is an instrumental version of Close To The Edge there
<AlexC> (www.x-med.com/MP3/
<AlexC> Well, I must be on my way. It has been a pleasure talking to you
<soundray> Again, sorry I couldn't really help
<AlexC> Thanks for trying. :) Bye
<soundray> It's worth going down the initialization route once more
<soundray> vga=792
<soundray> Good luck!
<AlexC> What do you hope this will accomplish?
<AlexC> I suspect the problem is with the adapter, not the monitor
<AlexC> Good night
#ubuntu-classroom 2008-10-19
<forces> saluton
#ubuntu-classroom 2009-10-13
<Brettguyx8> -?
<bigman__> hi
<bigman__>  I v got a problem, to mount a Vfat disk in writting mode, I manage to get it in reading mode but not writting, any clues?
<pleia2> bigman__: you want #ubuntu for support
<bigman__> ok
<bigman__> sorry I didnt realise I wasnt in the right room
<pleia2> no problem :)
<cavaughan> date -u
<PopUp>     *
<PopUp>       /ignore #ubuntu-classroom CRAP NOTICES SNOTES CTCPS JOINS PARTS QUITS KICKS MODES WALLOPS NICKS DCC DCCMSGS CLIENTNOTICES CLIENTCRAP CLIENTERRORS HILIGHTS
#ubuntu-classroom 2009-10-14
<openweek8> Hi
<openweek9> hio
#ubuntu-classroom 2009-10-15
<jimmy_> hi
<jimmy_> how to watch porn in firefox?
<jimmy_> wat?
<jpds> jimmy_: Please stop doing that.
<jpds> jimmy_: That is off-topic for this channel.
<jimmy_> jpds,whatsup
<openweek5> hey
<openweek5> is there anybody ?
<joaopinto> no
<openweek5> ??
#ubuntu-classroom 2009-10-16
<delcoyote> hi
#ubuntu-classroom 2009-10-18
<qwebirc72933> Dears ,,,
<qwebirc72933> any one can help me to how setup my ubuntu pptp vpn ?
<jim_from_pa> hi, having trouble with grub after installing Win7
<joaopinto> jim_from_pa, the support channel is #ubuntu
#ubuntu-classroom 2010-10-19
<aijieqiang> ;-)hi,there
#ubuntu-classroom 2010-10-22
<palhmbs> In an hour we are having a classroom event? - Intro to Ubuntu?
<pleia2> in 25 minutes
<palhmbs> thanks pleia2
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || UOW Survey: http://is.gd/fZlwL || Current Session: Intro to Ubuntu - Instructors: MichealH
<pleia2> just trying to track down MichealH, hopefully we'll begin soon :)
<pleia2> for those of you who just joined us - just trying to find our instructor, he's a bit late :)
<MichealH> Sorry
<MichealH> Hey all
<MichealH> I just want to remind you that questions should be started with "QUESTION:"
<MichealH> And that you talk in #ubuntu-classroom-chat
<MichealH> Okay, So Lets learn a bit more about Ubuntu!
<MichealH> Ubuntu is based off a philosophy
<MichealH> It means "Peace and Humanity for others"
<MichealH> Im sure you all have Maverick on your PC's right?
<MichealH> So You have just brezed through your installation and you probably want to give something back.
<MichealH> This is called contributing
<MichealH> You dont need to know any programming to help out
<MichealH> You can infact, be a total newbie at Linu to help out
<MichealH> If you seek support and it is a totally new issue then It really helps us improve Ubuntu to fit your needs
<MichealH> And the needs of others
<MichealH> See, If you wnet and posted on the forums and marked your tread as [SOLVED] when its solved will help out thurther down the line
<MichealH> When someone else has your problem
<MichealH> Also, You want to test the next release for example.
<MichealH> You can help by reporting problems so the Developers can fix it
<MichealH> Its these little things that make a big difference
<MichealH> Is everyone familiar with the concept of Ubuntu (which is open-source software)
<MichealH> As many people may know, If anyone needs help there is #ubuntu
<MichealH> Im in there, Almost everyone is in there!
<MichealH> Were all there ready to help
<MichealH> You can even help in #ubuntu if you dont know anything at all by reporting suspicious behaviour
<MichealH> Its pretty clear to see that little things, as I said, DO make a Massive difference!
<MichealH> Has everyone heard of a LoCo?
<MichealH> A LoCo stands for Local Community area
<MichealH> There are lots of freindly people you can meet from your area
<MichealH> I know I have mad plenty freind in my LoCo area.
<MichealH> *made
<MichealH> Does anyone have any questions before we move on?
<MichealH> Good. Noone has any questions.
<MichealH> IRC is a vital communicational tool for us.
<MichealH> You are on IRC now
<MichealH> This box right infromt of you
<MichealH> On IRC we attend Team Meetings and to provide support ect.
<MichealH> So, Ubuntu is something we all use and enjoy using
<MichealH> There is always a reason why we switched and If you want to share your story please do in #ubuntu-classroom-chat
<MichealH> You will see that these vary
<MichealH> < palhmbs> I switched from Windows - o/ - my 512Mb RAM just wasn't coping with all the viruses...
<MichealH> That is very good
<MichealH> Ubuntu Is known for being light, and fast
<MichealH> And as palhmbs pointed out, Virus free!
<MichealH> Ubuntu is like one big area on your computer that is secure
<MichealH> Ubuntu cant run .exe's too
<MichealH> BUT...
<MichealH> Fpor all those gamers Ubuntu has a trick up its sleeve
<MichealH> There is a program called Wine (No, You cant drink it)
<MichealH> Does anyone have any questions?
<MichealH> < palhmbs> QUESTION: what does WINE stand for?
<MichealH> WINE stands for well...
<MichealH> Good Question!
<MichealH> I am acctually stuck on that one!
<ClassBot> palhmbs asked: what does WINE stand for?
<MichealH> That went wrong
<ClassBot> palhmbs asked: is there any benefit in using WINE instead of dual-booting Windows?
<MichealH> Not rebooting for sure
<MichealH> Uses less reources too
<MichealH> But there can be some fallbacks
<MichealH> iTunes wont work
<MichealH> Please rember that WINE IS NOT AN EMULATOR
<MichealH> (tats acctually what wine stands for)
<MichealH> Moving on...
<MichealH> What else do you like that Windows hasnt got?
 * MichealH mutters price
<MichealH> ;)
<MichealH> < pedro3005> freedom to muck around in my system
<MichealH> I agree
<MichealH> I enjoy 'tweaking' my install
<MichealH> But I must stress NOT TO USE ROOT CARELESSLY
<MichealH> I could go and say something not repeatable in here
<MichealH> sudo can be dangerous
<MichealH> Be very afraid.
<MichealH> Fear it.
<MichealH>  < Omega> I'd reccomend learning python
<MichealH> +1
<MichealH> Thats what you can use when you decude to become a developer
<MichealH> C/C++ works too
<MichealH> Anything (Except VB.NET :P)
<MichealH> < shtywi> in ubuntu can i use gui
<MichealH> Yes, Indeed
<MichealH> Ask away If you have more questions
<MichealH> Explore!
<MichealH> In my Opinion, Ubuntu has alot to offer out the box than windows
<MichealH> For example Im on my Windows 7 *gasp* but I need to go and download python to use it
<MichealH> Ubuntu has that out the box.
<MichealH> You need a file quickly... Ubuntu boots much faster than Windows
<MichealH>  < pedro3005> AND when you download python (on win 7) it's poorly integrated to the environment
<MichealH> +1
<ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
<MichealH> Anyone have any questions in the last 10 mins?
<MichealH> Get asking.
<MichealH> Remember to start with "QUESTION:"
<ClassBot> palhmbs asked: you started late - you should go overtime a bit
<MichealH> Well, I can do that if needed
<ClassBot> shtywi asked: is pythone easy to deal with cause iam famlier with delphi
<MichealH> Every Programming language is similar
<MichealH> Its easier to learn one the more you know
<MichealH> I know Quite a bit!
<MichealH> It makes it easier to learn new languages
<MichealH> < pedro3005> Python is an easy but powerful language
<MichealH> Agreed.
<ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
<MichealH> Now, Just to show you how easy Ubuntu is to use let me tell you a bit about myself
<MichealH> I am 13 years old (Yes, really)
<MichealH> I started off using Wine when I was 10 years old
<MichealH> I have used Ubuntu for almost 3 years
<MichealH> Okay, Last 2 mins lets go!
<MichealH> Ask any question Ubuntu related and I will try to answer
<MichealH> So will all the lovley people in #ubuntu-classroom-chat
<MichealH> Okay, The session is almost over :(
<MichealH> Any feedback is appreciated!
<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/10/22/%23ubuntu-classroom.html
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || UOW Survey: http://is.gd/fZlwL ||
<MichealH> And to all those out there: HAVE FUN WITH UBUNTU!
<MichealH> Its there and make the most out of it
#ubuntu-classroom 2010-10-23
<goga> hello
<pleia2> hi everyone, unfortunately our instructor for the C++ class is having internet problems and won't be able to make the session
<pleia2> we'll update the calendar and blog when we reschedule, sorry for the trouble
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: C++ for Beginners: Part 2 POSTPONED ||  Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat
#ubuntu-classroom 2011-10-17
<sebsebseb> hi
<Flannel> Nothing's going on right now, correct?
<meway> Flannel, http://manasource.org/downloads
<meway> please read the top of this page
<meway> http://www.gitorious.org/tmw
<Flannel> meway: Yes, 0.5.3 is current
<meway> on that page read below mainline
<Flannel> meway: so... You want to install an updated yet still deprecated client?
<meway> no that is the one ubuntu has in its repository..
<Flannel> meway: 0.5.2 is in the repositories, that is the prior release to the latest release (0.5.3).
<meway> Flannel, read this entire page
<meway> http://www.themanaworld.org/
<meway> Mana is the up to date client tmw is the old deprecated client in the repo
<meway> The game that the client runs is The Mana world
<meway> Tmw is a game client *not just one game*
<Flannel> meway: If I go to the downloads page on themanaworld, I get 0.5.2.  In fact, that page directs you to the Ubuntu repositories.
<meway> Flannel, did you read the page itself?
<Flannel> meway: I did.  Perhaps you should just start telling me what I'm supposed to see instead of linking me to a page full of text.
<Flannel> Since, obviously one of us is confused.
<meway> It was 1.5 years ago that the Mana project split off from The Mana World, so that the server and client software could be developed independently from the content of the game.
<Flannel> meway: The 0.5.2 client is the one released in April of 2011, which is the date of of that post on themanaworld.org and effectively the date of the software in the repositories.
<Flannel> "that post" being the latest post.
<meway> if you install the client it says in the upper right corner v0.0.29.1
<meway> so how can that be true?
<Flannel> (the software in the repositories was April 30th, with an update at the end of May for some packaging issues)
<meway> sudo apt-get install tmw gives me v0.0.29.1
<meway> I want 0.5.3
<meway> of Mana
<meway> tmw is now named mana
<Flannel> meway: Lets back up.  What version of Ubuntu are you on?
<meway> the latest
<Flannel> meway: 11.10?
<meway> not this machine
<meway> the one downloaded with wubi
<Flannel> Alright.  So, in 11.04, the "tmw" package is 0.29.1-3 (package version).  In 11.10, the tmw package version is 1.0+git20110505-2.
<meway> intresting
<meway> Flannel, so wth does that mean ? xD
<Flannel> The latter package version depends on mana, and recommends tmw-music.  The "mana" package it depends on (and will be installed with it) is 0.5.2-2 (the -2 is the clerical error I mentioned earlier)
<meway> I am confused
<Flannel> meway: If I had to guess, I'd say you were actually on 11.04, or that you need to be running mana and not tmw.  This is a different machine?
<meway> yes
<meway> different machine
<meway> I am on lubuntu on this machine
<meway> this may have caused me some confusion
<Flannel> meway: Alright.  Next time you get back to that machine, you can check your version with `lsb_release -a`
<meway> ok
<Flannel> meway: If you are on 11.04, you can get to the latest mana by upgrading to 11.10 (and if you decide to reinstall, then installing "tmw" will get you tmw and mana)
<meway> Ubuntu 11.04
<Flannel> meway: If you do happen to be on 11.10, it may be confusion about tmw versions vs mana versions.
<meway> why is mana not available on 11.04?
<meway> I don't understand how the repo thing works TBH
<meway> I just know that it gives me a really old client
<Flannel> tmw is.  mana 0.5.0 was only released in January of 2011, so it apparently wasn't packaged in time for 11.04.  Either it wasn't considered stable enough, or someone just didn't have enough time.
<Flannel> Ah.
<Flannel> meway: Debian Import Freeze (one of the milestones for release) happened in December of 2010, so that is likely the largest reason.
<Flannel> A 0.5.x release wasn't out in time for 11.04, put simply.
<meway> ;_; any way to adjust?
<meway> besides wait :(
<Flannel> waiting won't help.  11.04 will never have it.  The most straightforward method would be to upgrade to 11.10
<Flannel> (or just use a machine that already has 11.10, your current Lubuntu, perhaps)
<meway> Flannel, is there a way to adjust it on your own?
<Flannel> "adjust it"?
<meway> like point your system in the correct direction
<meway> with package manager
<Flannel> Oh.  Well, I'm looking at the individual dependencies now, to see if you'd be able to satisfy everything by installing the 11.10 package on 11.04.  This obviously isn't preferred, but it may be technically possible.  I'm about halfway done at the moment.
<Flannel> meway: So, it appears that there's only one package that won't play well.  Unfortunately, it's a core package and not something you can upgrade without breaking a lot of the rest of your system.
<meway> lol ok
<Flannel> So unfortunately it looks like you can either upgrade to 11.10, or compile it yourself (and with the amount of dependencies, that's going to require you to get your hands pretty dirty)
<meway> ooh fun >.<
<meway> Flannel, why could I not just edit the sources.list?
<meway> and than remove the line
<meway> after installing tmw?
<Flannel> meway: Because all that would do is allow you to install the 11.10 package on 11.04, which would cause the bad things I mentioned earlier
<meway> I will take the risk :s
<Flannel> meway: It'll break your system.  You should just upgrade if you're going to do that.
<meway> what will it break exactly?
<Flannel> meway: Well, it's going to upgrade a C library, which a lot of your current system uses.  So, hypothetically... it'll break all sorts of things.
<Flannel> I'm sorry I don't have a more precise answer, but anything that depends on that library could stop working properly.
<meway> again I will take the risk and update later xD
<Flannel> meway: Alright.  When things break, please don't ask for support in #ubuntu.
<meway> k what line to add?
<Flannel> You'll have to figure it out on your own.  I'm not going to help you break things.
<Flannel> meway: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories is a good place to start reading up on repositories.
<meway> deb http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports/ oneiric universe
<meway> ?
<meway> Flannel, why not its my machine I am planning on updating
<meway> I might as well go out with a bang
<meway> and everything on this machine is backed up
<Flannel> meway: So... upgrade it.  Why waste your time?
<meway> Flannel, because I am curious
<meway> and breaking things helps me learn
<Flannel> meway: I'm glad you're interested in learning.  I suggest you start by reading up on the repositories and how they work instead of just taking a shot in the dark, which won't really help you learn anything except "don't do that".
<meway> plex link for my?
<Flannel> meway: I don't really grok that sentence, but I think you were asking for this: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories
<meway> i_i but tht looksing nothing likes http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports/ oneiric universe
<meway> witch is similar to I think I want
<Flannel> meway: No, that's a page for you to read, not a link to put in your sources.list
<meway> plex link for my sources.list
<sebsebseb>  
<Pinku> ls
 * jcastro taps the mic
<jcastro> 2 minute warning!
<jcastro> I'll give it another minute for people to show up
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ubuntu Open Week - Current Session: Introduction and General Ubuntu Q&A - Instructors: jcastro
<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/10/17/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
<jcastro> Another 2 minutes or so and we'll get started
<jcastro> so grab some caffeine or whatever. :)
<jcastro> Ok let's get started
<jcastro> Every one welcome to Open Week for 11.10!
<jcastro> For those of you not familiar with openweek, this is a weeklong set of IRC workshop sessions
<jcastro> So you can hang out and learn things about Ubuntu, and ask and answer questions
<jcastro> So first off, what kind of sessions will we have?
<jcastro> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek
<jcastro> the schedule is here ^^^
<jcastro> and if you look at the grid you can see the schedule
<jcastro> we start this at the same time every day
<jcastro> if you miss a session, don't worry, over the course of the week people will link the session logs in the schedule
<jcastro> so you'll be able to catch up afterwards if you miss a session
<jcastro> The way this works is we have 2 IRC channels
<jcastro> we have this room, #ubuntu-classroom
<jcastro> and then we have #ubuntu-classroom-chat
<jcastro> you should probably hang out in both
<jcastro> The presenter usually talks in #ubuntu-classroom
<jcastro> this is where they're giving their "talk" to the audience
<jcastro> you can use #ubuntu-classroom-chat as a sort of meta channel to discuss the topic that's going on in here
<jcastro> so that way the presenter can keep presenting
<jcastro> and you all can banter on and chit chat on the chat channel
<jcastro> In order to ask questions, you need to ask the bot in #ubuntu-classroom-chat
<jcastro> this queues up the questions for the presenter
<jcastro> and then the bot pastes the question in here
<jcastro> which then the presenter can answer
<jcastro> so, in order to ask a question during this week, in #ubuntu-classroom-chat, you need to ask the bot, and preface the question with QUESTION:
<jcastro> for example
<jcastro> ClassBot: QUESTION: What is 2+2?
<jcastro> the bot will then pm the presenter and then paste the question in here
<jcastro> (the answer is 42)
<jcastro> the presenter will then move on to the next question
<jcastro> Does anyone have any questions on how the classroom runs?
<jcastro> okay
<jcastro> so, we've got a good set of content for today
<jcastro> after this session we're going to have 2 sessions that will be good for local teams
<jcastro> and how to contribute to Ubuntu at a "local" level
<jcastro> and then at 1700UTC Clint will be doing a session on juju, which is a deployment/service orchestration tool for servers (juju.ubuntu.com)
<jcastro> for the rest of this session however, I can answer any burning questions you have about ubuntu
<jcastro> though if we can keep those to a high level about the project that might  be best. aka don't ask me to fix your Flash. :)
<jcastro> Any questions?
<ClassBot> L4rynx asked: ââWIll there be a proxy support for ubuntu-one?
<jcastro> Yep, it's the first thing they're working on this cycle: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntuone-client/+bug/387308
<jcastro> See comment #155
<ClassBot> jsjgruber-l-onei asked: ââDo we know yet if Wayland will be used in Precise?
<jcastro> Wayland will not be used in any form (by default) in P
<jcastro> given that it doesn't really do anything yet
<jcastro> however
<jcastro> there are some plans to try to bring some of those in a tech preview
<jcastro> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2011-October/003245.html
<jcastro> but as the thread says, it will be a low priority task for 12.04
<jcastro> more questions?
<ClassBot> jsjgruber-l-onei asked: ââSpeaking of Jorge/Awesome, anything concrete yet on using hangouts for UDS? I think you have a great idea there.
<jcastro> I would like to try to use a google hangout for a workshop
<jcastro> however they are currently limited to 10 people
<jcastro> so "not yet", until they allow us to do a hangout like will.i.am did
<jcastro> where it lets 10 people talk at the same time
<jcastro> and the rest is broadcast through youtube
<jcastro> then people can rotate in and out of the session, ask their question, and then make room for someone else to ask  a question
<jcastro> I'll personally be experimenting with it, as well as how we can use Hangouts at UDS to make remote participation there better.
<jcastro> more questions!
<ClassBot> akgraner asked: In your personal opinion, where is the easiest place for new people to the community to start contributing?
<jcastro> that depends
<jcastro> Helping other users is probably the easiest way to get started
<jcastro> you can do this either
<jcastro> a) locally, in your geographical area
<jcastro> or b) on the internets
<jcastro> b) you can do through irc, forums, askubuntu, mailing lists, or one of  the other billion ways people can talk on the internet
<jcastro> including facebook, google plus, twitter, etc.
<jcastro> contributing locally can be harder, especially if there's no one else close to you to hang out with!
<jcastro> but Randall's session afterwards will go into more detail
<jcastro> you can also contribute by just finding something to do in the project and doing it
<jcastro> for example:
<jcastro> you can contribute to updating wiki pages on the ubuntu help wiki
<jcastro> or join one of the other teams in the community
<jcastro> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Teams
<jcastro> has a list of teams that do stuff around the project
<jcastro> you can find something to do and just go join a team and do something you'd like to do
<ClassBot> armin asked: Ubuntu One sells music, are there any plans for expanding that and or adding movies/series?
<jcastro> I am not sure of any plans to do that right now
<jcastro> but it would be great!
<ClassBot> sebsebseb asked: What do you think the main features of 12.04 will be?
<jcastro> We won't know until after UDS
<jcastro> but I suspect not many new features
<jcastro> maybe a few things here and there, but most of the work into an upcoming LTS cycle is "we have to support this for 3 years on the desktop and 5 years on the server"
<jcastro> so I suspect many developers will not land something in this cycle, it'll just be improvements to existing things
<jcastro> and you won't likely see default applications being swapped  out either
<jcastro> we've had 2 large transitions the past 2 releases (first unity, then GTK/GNOME3), so we'll likely take this cycle to polish that off
<ClassBot> babai asked: Will there be visual/feature changes in unity in precise? or only stability improvements as its an lts release?
<jcastro> probably not many
<jcastro> you might see a tweak here or there in places where unity doesn't comply with the design yet, but like the rest of the distro, most everything will be fixes and polish
<jcastro> now that the API for the dash is stable
<jcastro> you'll likely see more new lenses from people and stuff like that
<jcastro> which will add new features to your dash as you install them, but I wouldn't expect major changes in Unity itself other than polish.
<jcastro> more questions?
<ClassBot> mhall119 asked: Any change of UEC being moved to OpenStack for 12.04 server?
<jcastro> that's a good question
<jcastro> for 11.10 we're packaging openstack
<jcastro> and it works, I've seen it work!
<jcastro> eucalyptus is still in Ubuntu, it's in universe
<jcastro> where it can be maintained better by eucalyptus folks
<jcastro> but for UEC we're moving to openstack
<jcastro> I think we renamed it to just ubuntu cloud guest, let me check
<jcastro> http://www.ubuntu.com/business/cloud/overview has the overview
<jcastro> http://cloud.ubuntu.com/2011/10/ubuntu-cloud-live-11-10-is-available/
<jcastro> also has live images you can put on USB sticks with openstack
<jcastro> so you can make a few of these, and boot off of them, and then you'd have openstack running, it's quite awesome
<ClassBot> sebsebseb asked: If you had to use another distro for a bit instead of Ubuntu, what would you use and why?
<jcastro> ubuntu
<ClassBot> globin asked: will there be an easy configuration tool for unity? the casual user hardly has any possibilities!
<jcastro> yes, right now we use this horrible tool called ccsm
<jcastro> which is basically your worst nightmare
<jcastro> The author of ubuntu tweak has added a bunch of config stuff for unity in his tool
<jcastro> but unfortunately it wasn't finished in time to include it in ubuntu
<jcastro> I am hoping we're able to put it in the software center soon so people can use it to configure their desktops, since it's a very nice tool
<jcastro> you can find out more information here: http://ubuntu-tweak.com/
<ClassBot> akgraner asked: what are the 12.04 plans for qwibber?
<jcastro> gwibber got rewritten last cycle
<jcastro> to be all GTK3 awesome
<jcastro> like the other apps, I suspect it will be nothing but bugfixes and polish from now on
<jcastro> (and yes, there are plans for google plus support as soon as they publish an API)
<ClassBot> youness asked: ââwhat about the futur of gnome in ubuntu ?
<jcastro> I don't think GNOME is going anywhere. :)
<jcastro> we've always built Ubuntu on GNOME and I don't think that's going to change any time soon
<jcastro> as far as having a pure upstream GNOME experience, ricotz, jbicha, and others have done an awesome job maintaining the shell in Ubuntu itself
<jcastro> so I suspect you'll only see that improve
<jcastro> both are attending UDS so we'll have more information on their plans in a few weeks.
<ClassBot> xangua asked: is it true that ccsm can break your unity if you move X stuffÂ¿
<jcastro> There are certain things in ccsm that break stuff
<jcastro> (this is why it's in universe and not installed by default)
<jcastro> (well, other than it sucking)
<jcastro> generally speaking, if you stay in the unity plugin you should be fine
<jcastro> we disable some things that will break your setup, such as the desktop cube (no one is maintaining it unfortunately)
<jcastro> but be warned, a lot of tutorials on the net ignore these warnings and give you instructions on how to do a workaround, which will probably break your setup.
<jcastro> however, staying within the unity plugin is usually safe
<jcastro> if you invoke ccsm by using "about:config" in the dash it'll take you right to the unity plugin
<jcastro> sometimes if you enable/disable plugins it will crash compiz
<jcastro> if you find yourself in a mess that ccsm has gotten you into you can do a reset:
<jcastro> http://askubuntu.com/questions/17610/how-do-i-reset-my-unity-configuration
<jcastro> and then deleting your .compiz directory
<jcastro> will usually fix that
<jcastro> but usually I don't mess around in the tool
<ClassBot> jrgifford asked: Is there progress on a "Ubuntu/Unity Tweaktool"?
<jcastro> like I said above, ubuntu tweak is getting pretty awesome now
<jcastro> I hope that the author submits it to the software center
<ClassBot> sagaci asked: what's the general roadmap for unity, is it mostly finished or are there still more things to add to it?
<jcastro> for 12.04 as of nowish Unity is mostly finished
<jcastro> this cycle will be about bug fixing and polish
<jcastro> as far as features for 12.10 and beyond, ask me in 6 months. :)
<jcastro> After we get a nice stable unity that is LTSable, then we'll investigate new features
<ClassBot> globin asked: will there be a calendar integration with thunderbird like it used to be with evolution?
<jcastro> this is an active area of work that we're working with the Mozilla folks with
<jcastro> I don't have exact details but I know both teams are working on it, we should have more information after UDS on what the plans are for that.
<ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
<jcastro> Lightning, which is the calendar for tbird will see 1.0 around November 9th
<jcastro> sorry, 8th
<jcastro> (your random tip of the day!)
<jcastro> more questions?
<jcastro> 8 minutes left!
<ClassBot> akgraner asked: jcastro what's the most exciting thing for you about juju and charms?
<jcastro> ooh
<jcastro> without giving away too much from the session:
<jcastro> it's that you can repeatably deploy services to EC2, openstack, or bare metal
<jcastro> so in the same way that "apt" makes it easy to install stuff on your one computer
<jcastro> juju will do for your data center
<jcastro> so instead of manually installing wordpress on a bunch of machines
<jcastro> you can just say "juju deploy wordpress" and then juju will take care of the rest, using either EC2, or openstack.
<jcastro> I can deploy a hadoop cluster in about 5 minutes with juju
<jcastro> before that would have taken me hours
<ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
<ClassBot> jrgifford asked: Is there a way to find existing charms for juju?
<jcastro> right now they're in code.launchpad.net/charm
<jcastro> but we're working on making that easier so you can just search and use them from juju itself
<jcastro> right now you have to manually DL the charms, it's not ideal
<jcastro> but we'll fix that
<ClassBot> globin asked: on ayatana mailing list someone had the idea of typing in commands in natural language. could you see that coming in the future?
<jcastro> I'm not good at guessing the future, but.
<jcastro> I am old so I already know the commands, so they seem natural to me.
<jcastro> but I'm not sure how that would work out in practice
<jcastro> alright
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ubuntu Open Week - Current Session: Contributing to Ubuntu at a Local level: A Roadmap - Instructors: rrnwexec
<jcastro> next up we have Randall Ross, who is going to talk about being more local with Ubuntu
<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/10/17/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
<rrnwexec> Thank you Jorge! Your session rocked :)
<rrnwexec> Welcome to "Contributing to Ubuntu at a Local Level: A Roadmap." This session is for anyone who wants to make a difference and help move the Ubuntu project forward without writing a single line of computer code (unless you want to.)
<rrnwexec> We all want to make a difference, right? ;)
<rrnwexec> Before I start I want to thank all of you for taking time out of your busy schedules to join me, but also and more importantly for focusing your attention on Ubuntu. I know you have many competing demands on your time. Thank you for making Ubuntu your priority.
<rrnwexec> I should also mention that there are no *really cool* slides for this presentation this time. Normally I'd use Lernid and make some rockin slides, but this one was a bit of a tight timeline. I'll do it next time though! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lernid
<rrnwexec> Take some time to learn about Lernid (not now though ;)
<rrnwexec> If you want to ask a question please type your question in in #ubuntu-classroom-chat as follows:
<rrnwexec> QUESTION: <Your question here (city/town)>
<rrnwexec> remember to use CAPS for QUESTION
<rrnwexec> You can ask a question at any time but generally I will save answering the questions until after my presentation, so please be patient. When you ask a question, please include your city/town name as I love to hear where Ubuntu people are. It's one of the most fun parts of hosting sessions like this.
<rrnwexec> Also, try to ask questions that relate to the topic at hand :)
<rrnwexec> Ok...
<rrnwexec> I'm Randall Ross, the Community Manager of the Ubuntu Vancouver LoCo (local community) in Vancouver Canada.
<rrnwexec> I'm also known as the "Ubuntu Buzz Generator" as my personal mission is to ensure that Ubuntu remains on the minds of as many people as possible at all times.
<rrnwexec> In an age of attention scarcity, that requires buzz. If you google "Randall Ross Ubuntu", you'll get more information than you ever asked for on ways that I am trying to do that.
<rrnwexec> Why do I care?
<rrnwexec> Well, in the words of a famous former cosmonaut and benevolent dictactor, "Ubuntu represents the best chance GNU/Linux has to bring free software to the foreground of everyday computing. I have no doubt of that... there is a huge opportunity, and a once-in-a-lifetime chance to use what we know and love in a way that changes millions of lives for the better." That's inspiring and I believe it and live it every day.
<rrnwexec> I'm going to share with you a little plan that you can use to make Ubuntu more fun and more prominent in your village, town or city. I'm going to model it after the process that I followed in Vancouver in the hopes that it inspires or helps some of you take Ubuntu to the next level and create a real local Ubuntu community.
<rrnwexec> Community. The word is tossed around a lot in the Ubuntu project and elsewhere. To prevent confusion I'd like to offer up my definition and the one that will be used for the purposes of this session.
<rrnwexec> Community is a "gathering of people that share a common space and purpose, usually in close physical proximity to one another. Communities collaborate and share amongst members." It's a pretty simple definition, but also a subtle one. Let me explain:
<rrnwexec> In the world of software projects (like Ubuntu), we tend to think of community as the collection of developers that collaborate to write code, to package, to test, and to work on other technical stuff. This is a valid definition when a project is just starting, but for our purposes it is too constrained.
<rrnwexec> In Ubuntu, there is a broader community that includes not only developers but also artists, designers, project managers, translators, managers, marketers, and much more. However even this description is too constrained. It nicely sums up what we might call "Ubuntu contributors" but it still excludes the largest group: people who "just" use Ubuntu and love Ubuntu.
<rrnwexec> So as we go through this session, please keep my definition in mind. Community includes *everyone*. It includes your mom, your neighbour, your spouse, your grocer, your acupuncturist, and even your yoga instructor. If they use Ubuntu or should, they're a part of it.
<rrnwexec> (there's a lot of yoga in Vancouver!)
<rrnwexec> There's a common misconception that in order to be an Ubuntu contributor one must write code. Myth busted! I'm living proof. I have never written a line of code for Ubuntu, and neither have some of my friends who are also Ubuntu Members.
<rrnwexec> Shocked?
<rrnwexec> So here we are. From our dimly lit rooms, we're watching text flow across the screen. Seems a bit lonely, doesn't it? That's another reason I wanted to "talk to you today" about contributing on a local level: It's more FUN!! The goal of Ubuntu community is to be a FUN place :)
<rrnwexec> Ok... enough ramble. On to the meat of the discussion:
<rrnwexec> What can we do at a local level to bring the project forward?
<rrnwexec> LOTS!
<rrnwexec> The first step is to find your local community. This might sound simple, but in actuality it probably isn't. Where are the markers in your town that will lead you to your local Ubuntu group?
<rrnwexec>  When I arrived in Vancouver there weren't any. No billboards. No stores. No posters. Nothing. Sad sad sad.
<rrnwexec> First stop: "That Large Number Company in Mountain View": Google.
<rrnwexec> Search for something like this "Ubuntu Vancouver" (the quotes will confine the search, so use them, and of course replace Vancouver with your city/town name.)
<rrnwexec> What will you likely find? Probably not a group . But you might stumble on a mailing list for something related to Ubuntu (the kernel people perhaps)? Or perhaps you'll stumble on a discussion board, random rants about how video cards and wifi drivers don't work, Unity-bashing, or something of that nature.
<rrnwexec> Don't let this dishearten you. Every thread you find is potentially useful as it potentially connects you to people in your town/city. Some of these people might be human, just like you! :) *** We are all human ***
<rrnwexec> Choose some of the more coherent and recent posts and email the author(s) privately if possible. Politely ask them if they know of an Ubuntu group nearby. If they do, great! If they don't, then suggest a get-together. That's the start of an Ubuntu group.
<rrnwexec> One of the easiest ways to start out is a casual meeting in a coffee shop. Make a plan. Have coffee together. Pick the centre of your city, even if it means a bit of a commute for you. Why? That's where the highest concentrations of people are. You want people to see you and stumble on the meeting. You;ll want to establish a central base for the group that will make it easy to grow.
<rrnwexec> Before venturing out, print a small sign for the coffee shop table that says "Ubuntu Group" so that random passer-bys will notice you. You want these people to notice you. Make it look professional.
<rrnwexec> (A sideline: If by luck you do find some online evidence of a group in your area, congratulations! You live in one of the handful of cities with a local level Ubuntu group. Your next step should be to find them. Find out when their next meeting is and plan to attend. If you have other plans, drop them. Ubuntu is more important. If no meeting is posted, email the contact(s) introduce yourself and politely ask when/where/wheth
<rrnwexec> Ubuntu is more important. Please repeat that 3 times :)
<rrnwexec> I'll take a question now
<rrnwexec> QUESTION for large states what recommendations do you have to motivate people to take an active role in organizing and holding events in cities that are geograhically distant from yours?
<rrnwexec> good question! and one that the community at large struggles with.
<rrnwexec> one strategy is visit one or three cities in your state. take a couple of Ubuntu friends
<rrnwexec> make it know that you will be coming.
<rrnwexec> bring goodies.
<rrnwexec> you will attract at least a few people
<rrnwexec> and gently and politely talk to them about the many advantages of starting a local group
<rrnwexec> (more on this advantages later).
<rrnwexec> Back to the presentation:Now that you're at a meeting (either an established one or your ad-hoc coffee shop meeting), you can speak with others about their use of Ubuntu, plans, contributions and any other things that you feel would help you understand a way to collaborate.
<rrnwexec> The key to the whole adventure is to try to collaborate. Work together to move the project forward. But, when doing so, don't make process, rules, government and protocol your priority. Make simple actions your priority. Think of it this way: In the programming world, which is more valuable? A blueprint, or real running code?
<rrnwexec> Be the person who writes the code for the community! And if you're not a leader (or don't want to be, then find the person that is and get behind him/her.) Write community by acting to grow community ever day.
<rrnwexec> The next thing you will need is a way to grow your new group. Two's company, three's a charm. But, if that's always the number of people at your meetings, you will quickly get tired or bored. Grow your group!
<rrnwexec> How? Well, the best way is to make it obvious on a LOCAL level that there is a group in your city. That means guerilla marketing on the street level. Print some simple flyers with details of the next meeting. Post them at local libraries, on street poles at busy intersections, grocery stores, anwhere you can safely do so. Put an email contact on the flyer (that's you or your leader friend) so that interested people can ask q
<rrnwexec> If you put up 100 flyers in perfect places, you will likely get 5 people. Thats a great start. Your next meeting will be a lot more dynamic and interesting.
<rrnwexec> Next step: create a way for people to find you LOCALLY using the web. Though that might seem like a contradiction, there's a way to do it easily. Start a meetup group.
<rrnwexec> http://meetup.com/yourgroupname
<rrnwexec> It is a small investment of money, but it's not much. You can get a month of service for $15 or so. Have your new Ubuntu friends chip in and spread the fun if you have to.
<rrnwexec> Does it work?
<rrnwexec> Here's ours: http://meetup.com/ubuntuvancouver site.
<rrnwexec> It's been in operation for over 2 years, and you'll see we have a few members. (495 today). So, I speak from some experience when I say this works.
<rrnwexec> we are the largest Ubuntu group on meetup.
<rrnwexec> We are one of the largest meetup groups in Vancouver.
<rrnwexec> it works.
<rrnwexec> Why does meetup work? It's local. People who join meetup are looking for local events and people. They will find you.
<rrnwexec> The founder of meetup started with a goal: "To use the internet to get people off the internet".... Pretty cool.
<rrnwexec> (I don't work for them, nor am I on commission. I'm a happy customer.)
<rrnwexec> A couple of things you will want to do when you start your group. First, choose group categories that are NOT all techy. Pick things that resonate with people that might use and contribute to Ubuntu.
<rrnwexec> This will ensure that your Ubuntu group gets off to a diverse and strong(er) start. If you are lucky you'll attract someone to the group that has a passion for marketing and facilitating events, and that will help your group grow even faster. Keep diversity a goal and first and foremost on your mind.
<rrnwexec> Secondly, make your group description compelling and meaningful to everyday users of computers. These are the people that are coming to Ubuntu, or need to. Avoid jargon and l33t speak. Also avoid terms like "newbie", "geek" or anything else that's derogatory. They divide and discourage people. Don't try to make your group "The Loyal Order of Water Buffalo". Fred Flintstone already has a group like that. ;)
<rrnwexec> Now, put an event on your calendar. Give yourself a three-week lead time, so that you'll get a few more members and so people can adjust their calendars to make Ubuntu a priority.
<rrnwexec> QUESTION: If your local area has an existing LUG what is the best way to proceed with your local Ubuntu group so that they do know you are there to support them not compete with them?
<rrnwexec> I like this question a lot.
<rrnwexec> Ubuntu is not linux.
<rrnwexec> so there is no competition.
<rrnwexec> The target market for an Ubuntu group is not the same as that for a LUG. They are complemetary
<rrnwexec> in Vancouver we have an active LUG.
<rrnwexec> and they are meeting regularly to discuss kernel related issues. they are thriving and active, and so are we :)
<rrnwexec> back to presenting...
<rrnwexec> Now that you're on meetup, and you have a group. What next? Well here's where the fun comes in. Create FUN things to do, and do them!
<rrnwexec> I'm going to list some ideas based on what has worked here, and based on where I think Ubuntu needs some help. Pick the ones that you are most interested in. Interest drives passion. And, if you are passionate, others will come along for the ride.
<rrnwexec> Create a presentation about an Ubuntu topic. Pick something fun that people in your community will like to learn. Choose something that is unique to Ubuntu, or at least directly related to it.
<rrnwexec> What's unique to Ubuntu?
<rrnwexec> Hmm.... TONS!!!
<rrnwexec> How about Unity? Ubuntu Software Center? Lernid?
<rrnwexec> ;)
<rrnwexec> next idea: Create a support event. Gather some of your more tech-savvy members and get them together to help other Ubuntu users, or to help switch people who are trapped in the proprietary world switch over.
<rrnwexec> Or, write an Ubuntu guide. Get a few people together who like to write and choose something that you (or others) find confusing, or something that is new, and document it.
<rrnwexec> How does that help?
<rrnwexec> Or... "Why should I write a guide since there are tons of books and guides online?"
<rrnwexec> well.. how many of them have authors that you know?
<rrnwexec> it's a powerful way to send the signal that Ubuntu is in your city
<rrnwexec> Next... Organize additional events. Coffee shop meetings are nice and all that, but the sky's the limit! Use your imagination.
<rrnwexec> In Vancouver we have these things called TreatTuesdays. We invented the name. They are restaurant socials that occure on Tuesday nights in venues around our city (we rotate). Mixing mingling and no computers. Lots of fun!!
<rrnwexec> *occur
<rrnwexec> Many restaurants will want your group as Tuesday is a bad night for restaurants.
<rrnwexec> and...
<rrnwexec> other customers will see you and be super-curious. :)
<rrnwexec> Or... Organize a Marketing event. This can be as simple as making a banner and standing on the street with it. Talk to passers-by about Ubuntu in your town. Keep the focus on your town, not Ubuntu. Ubuntu is not just software
<rrnwexec> Ubuntu is the collection of people in your town that use, love, and contribute to the project and the ethos.
<rrnwexec> tell them that.
<rrnwexec> Other marketing ideas:
<rrnwexec> Create a video or a podcast for your community.
<rrnwexec> Use local people that love to ham it up. Show them having fun, partying, doing things with Ubuntu... but don't fixate on the software.
<rrnwexec> Or... Reach out to local media (co-op or campus radio, local newspapers, blogs) that might want to hear about the start of an Ubuntu community.
<rrnwexec> these media outlets can be friendly to our project.
<rrnwexec> QUESTION: you can use the LoCo Teams Portal for free, it has many of the same features as meetup.com
<rrnwexec> That is a good point.
<rrnwexec> There is an important thing that meetup currently has though: a HUGE community of non-Ubuntu people.
<rrnwexec> Ubuntu Vancouver uses the LoCo directory, and we like it, but we have yet to get a new member that way.
<rrnwexec> In time I think that will change. More people will naturally gravitate to the LoCo directory.
<rrnwexec> Especially as we make it more fun :)
<rrnwexec> I know the fantastic people that work on the directory are planning some wonderful things to get us there.
<rrnwexec> :)
<rrnwexec> I'm nearing the conclusion of my presentation... please feel free to ask any questions you want.
<rrnwexec> Part of my job as Ubuntu Buzz Generator is about inspiring people to get out of their basements, away from their terminals and chat screens, and out into the real-world, that place sometimes referred to as "meatspace".
<rrnwexec> (I call it a job) but it's not. It's a passion and a mission.
<rrnwexec> Now that 20 million people worldwide enjoy Ubuntu, there literally are Ubuntu humans everywhere. There are people using and enjoying Ubuntu in your town.
<rrnwexec> Depending on who you ask, free operating systems (based on a free kernel) enjoy about 1% market share (on client computers). Of those about 50% run Ubuntu. That means 0.5% of the people in your town or city are running Ubuntu.
<rrnwexec> So some easy math should tell you that you are not alone. If your town has 10,000 people in it, you'll likely be able to find 50 people just like you. Pretty cool huh? If your town has more than 200 people, you are not alone ;)
<rrnwexec> When you locate your Ubuntu community or create one, good things can happen. It's fun to hang out with the Ubuntu crowd. When I do, I tend to hear less complaints about computers and more enthusiasm about technology and progress. Less griping. More fun. Try it.
<rrnwexec> I hope this session gives you a glimpse into a few quick ways to bootstrap your community get involved in Ubuntu at a local level, without being a programmer.
<rrnwexec> Question time! Got some?
<rrnwexec> Wow, tough room. Maybe I've put you all to sleep :)
<rrnwexec> QUESTION: Why are you always buzzing about Ubuntu?
<rrnwexec> Wow.
<rrnwexec> that's a direct challenge! I love it.
<rrnwexec> ok... name one other project with the chance to change the world?
<rrnwexec> ;)
<rrnwexec> any others?
<rrnwexec> (ps. that was my own question... you are right sebsebseb)
<rrnwexec> QUESTION: if creating Ubuntu buzz isn't your job, what do you do for a living?
<rrnwexec> By day, I'm an IT executive and strategist. I advise business leaders on how to invest in information technology to reap the greatest benefit from it.
<rrnwexec> I'm always looking out 3-5 years into the future.
<rrnwexec> And, from what I can see, this project we are talking about now is about to wash over the world like a tidal wave :)
<rrnwexec> Any other questions? Pick something random or controversial if you want?
<rrnwexec> While we are waiting for questions, who's here from Vancouver?
<rrnwexec> and, while we're guessing that... tell me in chat which city you are in :)
<rrnwexec> QUESTION: how often do you get the "haters" at your events?  You know, the "Unity sucks, everyone should use Arch" crowd
<rrnwexec> good question. we occasionally get the "I came to this meeting but really I love <insert other random thing here>"
<ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
<rrnwexec> sometimes that's another distro
<rrnwexec> I generally smile and say "Welcome to Ubuntu."
<rrnwexec> You are welcome here. We talk about Ubuntu because we love it.
<rrnwexec> And I encourage them to find their community if ours isn't for them.
<rrnwexec> I've yet to lose a member that way.
<rrnwexec> sebsebseb: QUESTION: What's the difference between a LUG and LOCO really? I thought a LUG was more general to loads of differnet distros, where as a loco mainly just goes on about Ubuntu?
<rrnwexec> A LUG is comprised of people who like to talk about kernels and the collection of software that surrounds the kernel. They tend to be mnore technical and "plumbing" oriented.
<rrnwexec> An Ubuntu group talks about Ubuntu, the porject, the platform, the product, and the ethos.
<rrnwexec> Very little of that is kernel-ish.
<rrnwexec> QUESTION: what is a good way to promote ubuntu without being like a geek or nerd or whatever negative some people say about ubuntu-users?
<rrnwexec> Excellent question.
<rrnwexec> The easy answer: don't use those words, ever.
<rrnwexec> and recruit people from all walks of life.
<rrnwexec> make your group non-techie.
<ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
<rrnwexec> Someone announced they are from Tempe AZ. nice to have you here!
<rrnwexec> Ok, I'll take one mor Q if anyone has it
<rrnwexec> *more
<rrnwexec> I guess that wraps things. Thanks for all your questions. I'm available by email if you have more. randall (at) executiv [dot] es. Send me a note and say hi, or check out my blog http://randall.executiv.es
<rrnwexec> Thanks for tuning in.. Bye for now... See you in meatspace :)
<rrnwexec> and....
<rrnwexec> PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE start or find the group in your city... tell them Randall sent you :)
<rrnwexec> bye for now and enjoy Open Week.
<rrnwexec> <I gave you 2 extra minutes to go grab a beverage and Google for a group in your city>
<rrnwexec> I will be at UDS. Look for me.
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ubuntu Open Week - Current Session: Getting the most out of LoCo Teams Portal - Instructors: mhall119
 * mhall119 waves
<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/10/17/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
<mhall119> hello everyone, my name is Michael Hall, and I am one of the developers of the LoCo Teams Portal (formerly the loCo Teams Directory)
 * nigelb waves as well
<mhall119> and this is Nigel Babu, another one of the LTP developers
<mhall119> I'm glad we got the slot immediately after rrnwexec, because this fits in perfectly with what he was doing
<mhall119> The LoCo Teams Portal is a resource for Ubuntu local community teams, it helps you organize your event and meetings, as well as publicizing them to the rest of the Ubuntu community
<mhall119> if you go to http://loco.ubuntu.com/ you will be greeted with a map to help you find a team near you, as well as a feed of news items coming from other LoCo teams
<mhall119> there's also a feed of twitter/identica status updates that contain the hashtag #locoteams
<mhall119> it's a great way to see the current buzz going on in the local communities
<mhall119> if you're tweeting about something you're doing locally, be sure to use the #locoteams hashtag
<mhall119> also, if you or your team regularly blog about your events or activities, ask to have your feed syndicated on our main page by adding it to the list here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoPortalFeeds
<mhall119> the loco-council will review that list and add approved feeds to the site
<mhall119> the rss feed is a new feature that we'll be expanding on soon
<mhall119> so that's the front page
<mhall119> you can see all the LoCo teams here: http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/
<mhall119> LTP is available to both approved and unapproved teams alike, all you need to do is be a part of ~locoteams in Launchpad and your team will be automatically imported into LTP
<mhall119> however, we support a lot more team information that Launchpad, so even after your team is in LTP, one of your team admins will want to log in and updated your team's information
<mhall119> for example, http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-us-florida is my LoCo team
<mhall119> you can see on that page our country, primary language and team contact
<mhall119> there are also links to our webpage, wiki, forums, IRC channel and mailing list
<mhall119> you should fill out as much of this information for your team as you can, as it helps prospective new members find you
<mhall119> if you have an IRC channel set, LTP even provides an in-page IRC applet that will connect them to your channel
<mhall119> you can also see at the bottom that we have some pictures from our team, LTP can pull these from Flickr, Picasa or Pix.ie accounts
<mhall119> the more information you fill in, the more active your team will seem, and the more likely people will want to be a part of it
<mhall119> so please, go find your team in LTP now, and see if it needs these fields entered or not
<mhall119> any questions on the teams list/team details before we move on?
<mhall119> alright, the next feature offered by the LTP is Event tracking
<mhall119> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/
<mhall119> there you will see a map showing the locations of upcoming LoCo Team events, as well as a list of them
<mhall119> LTP has two classes of events, "Team Events" which are organized on a per-team basis, and "Global Events" which track multiple team events for a given theme or purpose
<mhall119> for example, right now you can see the 11.10 release party and Ubuntu Hour global events
<mhall119> clicking on one of those will show you all the events of participating teams
<ClassBot> AlanBell asked: with the microblogging thing can we set it to ignore identi.ca?
<mhall119> that's part of the LTP code, if we had a reason to remove it could be removed
<mhall119> if you have a reason, file a bug against the loco-directory project on Launchpad
<mhall119> in fact, if anybody ever has a problem or suggestion for us, there is a link at the bottom of every page for filing a Bug
<mhall119> we use Launchpad to track all of our development work
<mhall119> that is also where you should go if you want to help us with the development of LTP (more on that at the end of this session)
<mhall119> going back to events..
<mhall119> here's one of my team's events: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-us-florida/1280/detail/
<mhall119> this works a lot like the meetup.com that Randall was talking about earlier
<mhall119> you give it a time and a venue, and people can register whether or no they are going to attend
<mhall119> you can also add comments to an event which gives you the ability to have a conversation for planning or whatnot
<mhall119> notice that the event is in EDT time
<mhall119> you can specify the timezone of an event in one of two ways
<mhall119> either by having a venue with a set timezone, or by using a default timezone for your team
<mhall119> we've also added the ability to hold "virtual" events
<mhall119> these are events without a venue
<mhall119> for these we provide a way to specifiy an IRC channel that will be used as the event's location
<mhall119> you can even combine venues and IRC channels to allow both in-person and remote participation in your event
<mhall119> all of your team's events are available as an iCal feed as well, so you can easily subscribe to them using your favorite calendar application
<mhall119> any questionson Events before we move on?
<mhall119> oh, one more item, if you are using something like meetup.com that has it's own registration system, there's no reason to keep two separate lists.  LTP lets you provide a registration link that will point users to another site to register, rather than tracking it separately in LTP
<mhall119> okay, moving on
<mhall119> the next major feature of LTP is Team Meeting tracking
<mhall119> http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/
<mhall119> these work a lot like Events, but they are designed specifically for a LoCo Team's regular IRC meetings (you are having regular meetings, right?)
<mhall119> LTP lets you define a time and channel for your meetings, it defaults to your team's IRC channel, but you can change that if you use a separate meeting channel or #ubuntu-meeting
<mhall119> links to the logs are automatically generated based on the standard Ubuntu channel logging
<mhall119> LTP Meetings also let you define an agenda for your meeting, this is a tree of items to be discussed
<mhall119> you can see an example here: http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/ubuntu-us-florida/193/detail/
<mhall119> each item lists who added it and when, as well as a description of the item to be discussed
<mhall119> you can also create sub-items if you have one that needs to be broken down into smaller pieces
<mhall119> we hope to integrate this with AlanBell's Meetingology bot, so if anyone is interested in that please ping him
<mhall119> LTP is an open source project, and we welcome and all contributions
<mhall119> like Events, Meetings also have local timezones, these default to your team's default timezone, but you can change them on a per-event basis
<mhall119> any questions on Meetings?
<mhall119> so why should your team use the LTP?
<mhall119> most teams already have a website and wiki
<mhall119> and we're not out to replace either of those
<mhall119> what LTP offers is consistent, easy to access functionality, and we centralize place for people to find out about the Ubuntu loco communities
<mhall119> new Ubuntu users looking for people near them will often be directed to the LoCo Teams Portal, so it's important that your team has a presence there
<mhall119> it also provides a great way for the LoCo Council and other community leaders to see how LoCo teams are doing, how active they are in events, etc
<mhall119> it will also help you provide regular updates on your team's activity for the Ubuntu News
<mhall119> but LTP isn't just a place to put information, we also provide a full API for accessing data
<mhall119> details on accessing the API can be found here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoDirectory/API
<mhall119> we also provide iCal and RSS feeds
<mhall119> so you can integrate LTP information into your team's website, or write a desktop, mobile, or other webapp mashup that uses this data
<mhall119> LTP is made for the Local Teams, so if you have an idea for how to make it better for your team, please don't hesitate to talk to us about it
<mhall119> the developers regularly hang out in #ubuntu-website on freenode, or you can file bugs against the project in Launchpad
<mhall119> that's really all I have, are there any questions?
<mhall119> either about LTP, or services for LoCo teams in general?
<mhall119> well either I did a great job explaining the benefits of LTP, or everybody's gone to lunch
<mhall119> you can always find the developers in #ubuntu-website, and the LoCo council and other LTP users in #ubuntu-locoteams
<mhall119> well anyone who's not gone to lunch, you've got a few minutes now to grab some refreshments
<mhall119> but be sure to stick around for Clint Byrum's Juju: DevOps Distilled
<mhall119> there's a lot of excitement around Juju, so you won't want to miss it
<ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
<ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
<mhall119> Oh, I almost forgot, LTP is fully translatable and already has been translated into many languages
<mhall119> so it's accessible to not-English speakers as well
<mhall119> if we're missing translations for your team's preferred languages, organize a translations jam and get them into Launchpad, we we'll make them part of the next release
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ubuntu Open Week - Current Session: Juju: DevOps Distille - Instructors: SpamapS
<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/10/17/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
<SpamapS> Greetings earthlings
<SpamapS> Welcome to all juju fans and interested parties.
<SpamapS> I want to first thank everyone who helped us test and build Juju in time for the 11.10 release, especially the juju dev team and our charm contributors!
<SpamapS> Today I'm going to do a summary of what juju is, how it relates to other tools and systems you may have heard of, and then give a brief demo that you can all follow on with.
<SpamapS> If you'd like to prepare a system for following along while I go through the summary, here are some instructions for setting up the local dev provider on an 11.10 machine: http://paste.ubuntu.com/711081/
<SpamapS> You'll also need this content in ~/.juju/environments.yaml  http://paste.ubuntu.com/711083/
<SpamapS> Ok, to the summary
<SpamapS> What is Juju: juju is a system for encapsulating services in the cloud.
<SpamapS> Its main purpose is to streamline operations and development by allowing users to deploy services and manage them in the cloud without having to learn the intracacies of each service.
<SpamapS> With juju, we think it will be possible to share all of your ops knowledge on how to manage a service with anybody else, and in turn, you will be able to benefit from all the other ops knowledge on services that you need to deploy.
<SpamapS> The reason we think the cloud makes this easier is that we now have a more generic system underneath the server OS, and so, we can easily add/remove services and systems without worrying about appropriating assets or leasing servers.
<SpamapS> That said, even bare metal systems with no virtualization or "cloud" can make use of Juju through its Ubuntu Orchestra provider.
<SpamapS> That is another reason juju is exciting, because we have abstracted away the notion of "how do I get a system up and running" into providers.
<SpamapS> Currently there are 3, EC2, Orchestra, and Local.
<SpamapS> EC2 can talk to the public Amazon EC2 cloud, or private clouds from eucalyptus and openstack.
<SpamapS> Orchestra speaks to a machine which has ubuntu-orchestra-provisioning-server installed using Orchestra's main backend tool, Cobbler. Cobbler can turn machines on and off if you tell it what type of power management to use.. and boot/install Ubuntu on them.
<SpamapS> (using pxe boot and net install, btw)
<SpamapS> The third provider, the local provider, creates machines using LXC, which is a system for lightweight containers on Linux. These are like virtual machines, but they all share the same running kernel, so they are lighter weight than VMs.
<SpamapS> This is particularly useful for testing and developing charms.. which we'll get to in a moment.
<SpamapS> Before I continue, if anybody has questions, please just ask them in #ubuntu-classroom-chat and jcastro will either field them or forward them to me (the bot confuses me. ;)
<SpamapS> So, charms, what are charms?
<SpamapS> Charms were formerly called formulas. Thats basically what they are, a formula for running a particular network service.
<SpamapS> They're a little bit like packages in the OS, they encapsulate only whats needed to run a particular network service, and how it interacts with other network services.
<SpamapS> question: "is it possible to create a "local cloud" with xen? hope that this question is in context" .. Interesting question. One could absolutely create a provider that ran xen commands rather than lxc or ec2 or ochestra commands.
<SpamapS> The provider API is fairly stable, though still considered "internal" to juju, and so is subject to massive changes. However, its not that hard to envision how to model "start a machine, stop a machine, attach a block dev to a machine" in most of the virtualization systems out there.
<SpamapS> Anyway, back to charms. Here is the metadata for the 'mediawiki' charm, which was one of the first charms I created for juju:
<SpamapS> http://paste.ubuntu.com/711098/
<SpamapS> Each of the bits under 'requires' and 'provides' maps to a set of "hooks" which trigger when one of those relationships is established with another compatbiel service.
<SpamapS> http://paste.ubuntu.com/711099/
<SpamapS> There is the 'hooks' directory for the charm (full content available at lp:charm/mediawiki)
<SpamapS> Each of these is an executable that will be run at the appropriate time, and which can access the two way channel of config data that is called a "relation"
<SpamapS> Because this is a loose coupling, charms become much easier to write, and far more encapsulated than what one sees in traditional configuration management like chef or puppet.
<SpamapS> That said, either of those systems would be fine choices for writing a single charm in, as they do a lot of what our simple little shell script hooks do.. apply the configuration based on available data.
<SpamapS> Thats one of the really important concepts for charms. They do not enforce a single language for configuring the system. If you are an expert in Cassandra, and want to share your expert cassandra skills with the world, but don't know puppet, thats ok. Write a charm in shell, share it in the charm collection, and now everbody has access to your knowledge on Cassandra.
<ClassBot> nealmcb asked: Is there interest outside Ubuntu in Juju?  Does Orchestra run on RHEL etc?  Could it run on Windows?
<SpamapS> Good question. Right now we're focusing on Ubuntu because it has all of the building blocks we need for juju to work. It also simplifies the charms quite a bit to not have to decide where to put config files or what package names are available.
<SpamapS> However, there's nothing stopping RHEL or anybody else from adding cloud-init and working with juju.
<SpamapS> Orchestra does deploy RHEL already. Cobbler is actually a Fedora sub-project and was originally only able to deploy RH based distros. We re-factored some old work that others did to make it deploy Debian and Ubuntu as well.
<SpamapS> Now a bit on architecture of Juju, and then we'll play a little bit and see if we can get mediawiki deployed.
<SpamapS> Juju consists of 3 basic parts. A cli tool (/usr/bin/juju), a central node we call the "bootstrap node", and agents which perform various tasks on deployed machines.
<SpamapS> The bootstrap node is so called because it is created first, as part of the process of "bootstrapping" your environment. There is an open task with high priority to provide high availability and failover for this node, and that should be completed soon.
<SpamapS> It runs two very important things, the main data store and coordination service used by juju, Zookeeper, and a python "provisioning agent" which handles creating and destroying machines.
<SpamapS> Zookeeper is an apache project that provides coordination services. Basically its like a filesystem with network based "inotify", clients can login and ask to be informed when anything changes. Also, clients can ask to be informed when other clients subscribe to nodes and are disconnected.
<SpamapS> Once you have zookeeper and the provisioning agent running, the cli basically just talks to zookeeper (tunneled through SSH) to change the zookeeper hierarchy to be the way it desires the system to be. Then the various agents see these changes and react to them.
<SpamapS> So when you say 'juju deploy --repository charms mediawiki' .. this uploads the mediawiki charm to the provider's file storage (S3 for EC2) and then changes zookeeper to say there should be a "mediawiki" service with that charm.
<SpamapS> The provisioning agent is subscribed to the list of services, and sees this, and sees that it has no machines. So it provisions a machine and assigns it to the service.
<SpamapS> The machine is fed data with cloud-init to start the "machine agent" when it boots up. This machine agent then sees that it has been assigned the 'mediawiki' service, and starts another agent, the 'unit agent' seeded for mediawiki.
<SpamapS> That agent then downloads the charms, and runs the install hooks
<SpamapS> This paradigm repeats, where we change zookeeper, then the agents react to it, throughout the lifecycle of a juju environment.
<SpamapS> One good thing about this is that juju operates in an event based manner, which should allow it to scale to really high numbers of nodes.
<SpamapS> So, if you did the instructions that I pasted at the beginning of the presentation, you should have everything you need to follow along with my little demo of deploying mediawiki.
<SpamapS> http://paste.ubuntu.com/711081/
<SpamapS> in case you missed it
<SpamapS> and the environments.yaml:
<SpamapS> http://paste.ubuntu.com/711083/
<SpamapS> so first we should see an empty environment, with a single machine
<SpamapS> ubuntu@ip-10-84-94-93:~$ juju status
<SpamapS> machines: 0: {dns-name: localhost, instance-id: local}
<SpamapS> services: {}
<SpamapS> $ juju deploy --repository charms local:mediawiki
<SpamapS> Thats the next part. The warnings are coming from the fact that we haven't finished fixing some of the charms in the repository for recent changes.
<SpamapS> juju status should now show a bit more
<SpamapS> http://paste.ubuntu.com/711119/
<SpamapS> state: started is important here. That means that the charm made it through its install and start hooks
<SpamapS> now we need a database though, as you'll probably see mediawiki is not available at that IP
<SpamapS> $ juju deploy --repository charms local:mysql
<SpamapS> We will also make use of memacached for page caching and session storage:
<SpamapS> $ juju deploy --repository charms local:memcached
<SpamapS> $ juju deploy --repository charms local:mysql
<SpamapS> oops
<SpamapS> http://paste.ubuntu.com/711123/
<SpamapS> Now, you'll notice there's only one machine, but 3 services
<SpamapS> that is because I am using the 'local' provider, which can handle this. Were I using the ec2 provider, it would be spinning up an individual machine for each service to run on
<SpamapS> Now we need to relate mysql and memcached back to mediawiki
<SpamapS> $ juju add-relation memcached mediawiki
<SpamapS> $ juju add-relation mysql mediawiki
<SpamapS> now if you're following along, you'll have seen that there was actually a problem with that one
<SpamapS> $ juju add-relation mysql mediawiki
<SpamapS> This is telling you that you need to be more explicit about the relationships
<SpamapS> $ juju add-relation mysql:db mediawiki:db
<SpamapS> This is actually whats needed. db-admin gives the wiki root access and is for things like phpmyadmin, and the slave relation of mediawiki would only be for a slave mysql server
<SpamapS> so now status should show us things running
<SpamapS> http://paste.ubuntu.com/711130/
<SpamapS> If you send your browser to http://ip.of.mediawiki/mediawiki/  it should actually show you a mediawiki
<SpamapS> I went ahead and opened up an apache2 proxy from the EC2 instance where I've been running this demo, and here is the wiki: http://ec2-204-236-198-13.compute-1.amazonaws.com/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
<SpamapS> Now we can also use the config settings defined in the charm's 'config.yaml' to change things like the title
<SpamapS> Oops, hah, apparently those config.yaml changes are only in my private branch of the charm.
<ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
<SpamapS> some other charms have a 'config.yaml' which allows service-wide settings like titles, themes, or broad tuning parameters.
<SpamapS> they are changed with 'juju set servicename settingname=settingvalue'
<SpamapS> with just 10 minutes left, I think thats about it, questions?
<ClassBot> nealmcb asked: How is change-control and authenticity handled when sharing charms?  They could of course do a lot of damage, and we've invested a lot in the security infrastructure for packages in ubuntu, but these aren't packages, right?
<SpamapS> great question neal. Right now, you're on your own to verify the source of charms. bzr has the ability to sign commits, but juju isn't verifying that.
<SpamapS> There is a larger "smart store" project going on that will do just that.. verify that the charms are owned by members of trusted teams and cryptographically sign the list of charms, much like apt does.
<SpamapS> If you've tried 'juju deploy foo' without qualification lately, you'll see an error about 'store.juju.ubuntu.com' that refers to what will be the default juju charm store.
<ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
<SpamapS> Well thats just about all the time I have. Please everyone if you have further questions, #juju in Freenode, https://juju.ubuntu.com, and https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/juju
<SpamapS> thanks all!
<ClassBot> janimo asked: Can juju be used on non-cloud setups, say an existing Linode VPS install?
<SpamapS> janimo, I ran the demo today on an EC2 instance. The local provider could definitely be used for single server setups for testing purposes, and thats why it exists...
<SpamapS> However the local provider hides all running services behind the 'virbr0' so you'll need to do something like I did and proxy the bits that you want to expose to external network traffic.
<ClassBot> beatpanic asked: simple question. can we use juju in production or we have to wait a little bit? thanks!
<SpamapS> Its considered a "tech preview" in 11.10, and the version in the PPA is also still in that state. There's a list of bugs tagged "production" that need to be considered before using it in production. https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju/+bugs?field.tag=production
<ClassBot> nealmcb asked: If you haven't already, note for the record that this was called "ensemble" until a month or so ago :)
<SpamapS> Thanks neal, yes it was called Ensemble until just over a month ago
<SpamapS> thanks thats all my time!
<ClassBot> nealmcb asked: How usable will it be in the pps on 10.10, 11.04, etc?
<SpamapS> Ok one more.. the answer is .. "try it!" ;)
<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/10/17/%23ubuntu-classroom.html
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat ||
<jcastro> thanks everyone
<jcastro> See you all tomorrow at 1400UTC!
<rick_h_> yes, think it starts again 1400UTC
<clem11388> Hey everybody, I just seen a post on OMG!ubuntu about the open week. And wanted to see if I could follow along
<elopio> clem11388, just get back tomorrow  at 1400UTC
<clem11388> Okay thank you :-)
<beatpanic> clem11388, if you want to have an idea of how is it happening take a look at this though http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/10/17/%23ubuntu-classroom.html#t17:01 -- this is the last class
<clem11388> Cool I'll take a look :-) I seen that OMG!Ubuntu mention about how to make your first Ubuntu app. And thats what really caught my eye
<akgraner> If you missed today's sessions you can click on the sessions and see the logs  - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/Timetable
<clem11388> thank you akgraner
<clem11388> well I'll come one back tomorrow at 1400UTC / 10:00EST , is it ok to just close out the IRC client? or do I need to do a inline command?....yes I don't use IRC very much lol
<nebajoth> hmmm
<nebajoth> that ubuntu paste with the first few steps of the juju tutorial is flawed
<nebajoth> it gives "apt-add-repository" rather than "add-apt-repository", for one
<nebajoth> for two, apparently apt-add-repository is no longer included in oneiric by default
<nebajoth> one must install python-software-properties to obtain it
#ubuntu-classroom 2011-10-18
<huxley_spark> exit
<abhitri> ##kernel
<sebsebseb> hi
<dholbach> Hello everybody! If I read the clock correctly, we'll start in 5 minutes - now is a good time to tweet/dent/etc. and invite your friends to the event. :-)
<dholbach> Welcome everybody to day two of Ubuntu Open Week! We still have a lot of great stuff lined up for the week, have a look at the schedule at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek - after my double session there'll be one session about Ubuntu Friendly and one about Brainstorm Ubuntu - awesome!
<dholbach> I'd like to invite you to ask as many questions as you have, this will make the session much move lively and interesting
<dholbach> for that, please join #ubuntu-classroom-chat and ask your questions in there
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ubuntu Open Week - Current Session: Getting Started with Ubuntu Development - Part 1 - Instructors: dholbach
<dholbach> please prefix them with QUESTION:
<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/10/18/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
<dholbach> luckily with the help of the Ubuntu Packaging Guide team I have a lot of the content already prepared, so you will spend less time waiting for me to have typed everything
<dholbach> and we have more time for questions
<dholbach> if anything's unclear or weird or doesn't make sense, please ask :)
<jcastro> woo, welcome back everyone!
<dholbach> jcastro, want to say a few words?
<dholbach> hum, I guess I'll get started then :)
<jcastro> nope, just take it away!
<dholbach> ok, so in the double session today, I'd like to introduce you to the world of Ubuntu development, so explain what the big moving parts are, how we work and which other actors are involved
<dholbach> you won't be a pro after this, but I hope you'll at least have heard of the most important things afterwards :-)
<dholbach> in the second part, I'll help you get your development environment set up and maybe we even have time to have a look at trying to fix a bug
<dholbach> Ubuntu is made up of thousands of different components, written in many different programming languages. Every component - be it a software library, a tool or a graphical application - is available as a source package.
<dholbach> Source packages in most cases consist of two parts: the actual source code and metadata. Metadata includes the dependencies of the package, copyright and licensing information, and instructions on how to build the package.
<dholbach> Once this source package is compiled, the build process provides binary packages, which are the .deb files users can install.
<dholbach> Every time a new version of an application is released, or when someone makes a change to the source code that goes into Ubuntu, the source package must be uploaded to Launchpadâs build machines to be compiled. The resulting binary packages then are distributed to the archive and its mirrors in different countries.
<dholbach> he URLs in /etc/apt/sources.list point to an archive or mirror. Every day CD images are built for a selection of different Ubuntu flavours. Ubuntu Desktop, Ubuntu Server, Kubuntu and others specify a list of required packages that get on the CD. These CD images are then used for installation tests and provide the feedback for further release planning.
<dholbach> Sorry... I meant to say "The URLs in /etc/apt/sources.list ..."
<dholbach> So far so good? Any first questions already?
<dholbach> Ok, let's talk a bit about the release cycle then... please have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule
<dholbach> it's a draft of the release schedule of the 12.04 cycle
<dholbach> Ubuntuâs development is very much dependent on the current stage of the release cycle.
<dholbach> We release a new version of Ubuntu every six months, which is only possible because we have established strict freeze dates. With every freeze date that is reached developers are expected to make fewer, less intrusive changes.
<dholbach> Feature Freeze is the first big freeze date after the first half of the cycle has passed. At this stage features must be largely implemented.
<dholbach> The rest of the cycle is supposed to be focused on fixing bugs. After that the user interface, then the documentation, the kernel, etc. are frozen, then the beta release is put out which receives a lot of testing.
<dholbach> From the beta release onwards, only critical bugs get fixed and a release candidate release is made and if it does not contain any serious problems, it becomes the final release.
<dholbach> <tcarrondo> QUESTION Is it possible for non programmers to develop?
<dholbach> tcarrondo, great question - thanks
<dholbach> the answer is: you can easily start your journey as an Ubuntu developer without a huge background in programming, but you need a few skills still
<dholbach> what I personally feel is important for a new contributor to development is: having a knack for making things work again, patience, no fear of documentation, being a good team player and not being afraid of asking a few questions
<dholbach> it obviously helps if you have spent years programming, but it's not a strict prerequisite - through some dedication and an interest in the area, you will learn quickly enough
<dholbach> the great thing about Ubuntu is: the code is open, getting the code and learning from making small changes to it is quite natural
<dholbach> ... if you have the skills/interests I mentioned above :)
<ClassBot> navneeth asked: ââdholbach: What's the difference between Feature Def. freeze and Feature freeze?
<dholbach> another great question, thanks navneeth
<dholbach> navneeth, I'll go into a bit more detail in a bit, the short answer is: the features and big changes are discussed and defined during the first phase of the development cycle (at Ubuntu Developer Summit)
<dholbach> so that's where a lot of people come together, discuss, make plans (at UDS) and write up specifications (after UDS)
<dholbach> at Feature Definition Freeze we expect the plan to be established
<dholbach> any more questions about the release cycle and the general introduction?
<dholbach> ok, let's talk about UDS and generall communication/coordination then
<dholbach> Thousands of source packages, billions of lines of code, hundreds of contributors require a lot of communication and planning to maintain high standards of quality.
<dholbach> At the beginning of each release cycle we have the Ubuntu Developer Summit where developers and contributors come together to plan the features of the next releases. Every feature is discussed by its stakeholders and a specification is written that contains detailed information about its assumptions, implementation, the necessary changes in other places, how to test it and so on.
<ClassBot> korky2 asked: What is UDS?
<dholbach> korky2, it's the Ubuntu Developer Summit
<dholbach> This is all done in an open and transparent fashion, so even if you can not attend the event in person, you can participate remotely and listen to a streamcast, chat with attendants and subscribe to changes of specifications, so you are always up to date.
<dholbach> Not every single change can be discussed in a meeting though, particularly because Ubuntu relies on changes that are done in other projects. That is why contributors to Ubuntu constantly stay in touch.
<dholbach> Most teams or projects use dedicated mailing lists to avoid too much unrelated noise. For more immediate coordination, developers and contributors use Internet Relay Chat (IRC). All discussions are open and public.
<dholbach> Another important tool regarding communication is bug reports. Whenever a defect is found in a package or piece of infrastructure, a bug report is filed in Launchpad. All information is collected in that report and its importance, status and assignee updated when necessary. This makes it an effective tool to stay on top of bugs in a package or project and organise the workload.
<dholbach> so far so good?
<dholbach> let's talk about the projects around Ubuntu then
<dholbach> Most of the software available through Ubuntu is not written by Ubuntu developers themselves. Most of it is written by developers of other Open Source projects and then integrated into Ubuntu. These projects are called âUpstreamsâ, because their source code flows into Ubuntu, where we âjustâ integrate it.
<dholbach> The relationship to Upstreams is critically important to Ubuntu. It is not just code that Ubuntu gets from Upstreams, but it is also that Upstreams get users, bug reports and patches from Ubuntu (and other distributions).
<dholbach> Obviously a lot of developers are part of more than one project. so there's Ubuntu developers, who have a deep interest in some other project and they actively participate in there, make sure that communication channels work between both of them and contribute code there.
<dholbach> Being an "ambassador" between projects is a great contribution to the Open Source world in its own.
<dholbach> The most important Upstream for Ubuntu is Debian. Debian is the distribution that Ubuntu is based on and many of the design decisions regarding the packaging infrastructure are made there.
<dholbach> Traditionally, Debian has always had dedicated maintainers for every single package or dedicated maintenance teams. In Ubuntu there are teams that have an interest in a subset of packages too, and naturally every developer has a special area of expertise, but participation (and upload rights) generally is open to everyone who demonstrates ability and willingness.
<dholbach> What this means in practise is that Debian and Ubuntu are both distributions, both having similar, but sometimes divergent goals and release cycles, so some coordination is necessary.
<dholbach> If you remember the release cycle I mentioned above, you saw how 12.04 will have freeze dates a lot earlier than usual.
<dholbach> This is because 12.04 will be an LTS (Long Term Support) release, so developers who make a decision which code to import from Debian have to do this a lot more carefully.
<dholbach> ie: back off from importing a crazy new unstable piece of code and stay with the stable one, or if they decide to bring it in, then make sure it lands early in the cycle
<dholbach> so we have the time to test and fix or roll back if necessary
<dholbach> next I'd like to talk a bit about how you can get changed into Ubuntu, because that's probably what you all are most interested in :)
<dholbach> Getting a change into Ubuntu as a new contributor is not as daunting as it seems and can be a very rewarding experience. It is not only about learning something new and exciting, but also about sharing the solution and solving a problem for millions of users out there.
<dholbach> To fix a bug in Ubuntu, you would first get the source code for the package, then work on the fix, document it so it is easy to understand for other developers and users, then build the package to test it.
<dholbach> After you have tested it, you can easily propose the change to be included in the current Ubuntu development release. A developer with upload rights will review it for you and then get it integrated into Ubuntu.
<dholbach> In practise finding the fix is probably the hardest bit in there, but the process around getting the fix reviewed and everything is quite simple - I'll sort-of-demo this in the second part.
<dholbach> When trying to find a solution it is usually a good idea to check with Upstream and see if the problem (or a possible solution) is known already and, if not, do your best to make the solution a concerted effort.
<dholbach> Additional steps might involve getting the change backported to an older, still supported version of Ubuntu and forwarding it to Upstream.
<dholbach> This was a huge amount of information now - you must have questions! Or do you all feel you know enough to get rocking and rolling already?
<dholbach> Ok, you look like you're all much cleverer than I was, when I started getting involved! Great! :-)
<dholbach> As I mentioned earlier: Open Source Development happens in a distributed world with different goals and different areas of focus. For example there might be the case that a particular Upstream might be interested in working on a new big feature while Ubuntu, because of the tight release schedule, might be interested in shipping a solid version with just an additional bug fix.
<dholbach> That is why we make use of âDistributed Developmentâ, where code is being worked on in various branches that are merged with each other after code reviews and sufficient discussion.
<dholbach> <mblank_> are most bugs located in the "upstream" package or does the packaging process induce bugs?
<dholbach> mblank, fantastic question
<dholbach> Most bugs are upstream bugs.
<dholbach> Which is why Launchpad has this great feature of tracking bugs in other bug trackers.
<dholbach> So for example I find a but in gedit, and it's bug number X in Launchpad, we identify that it's a bug in the upstream code, so we forward it with all relevant information to the gnome bugzilla, there it has bug number Y.
<dholbach> Launchpad can let us know when the bug status upstream changes, so for example if they need more info or when they fixed the bug.
<dholbach> Launchpad can also sync bug comments, so you always have all info in one place, which make collaboration a lot easier
<dholbach> Good examples for bugs in the packaging are: wrong or missing dependencies, missing/wrong build options or bugs in patches needed to integrate the package better
<dholbach> (there's very likely loads more... :-))
<ClassBot> jamdatadude asked: ââso how does one make sure to get the information proper for both ubuntu and the upstream?
<dholbach> It depends what you mean by information: if you want to forward a bug report for example, you want to make sure that the bug is not already fixed in a newer version of the software, or that it's not because of a patch we applied
<dholbach> also you want to include a test-case and the exact circumstances when the bug happens
<ClassBot> ikt asked: will there be greater intergration with lp and upstream? At the moment most bug reports go against packages listed in launchpad, but wouldn't it make more sense to have apport report the bug directly against the upstreams bug tracker? no sense in making the same bug report twice?
<dholbach> ikt, there are some upstream maintainers who want to know about every Ubuntu bug, they subscribe to the package in Launchpad and they deal with feedback there
<dholbach> for some upstreams with big projects that get lots of bug reports this option is not feasible
<dholbach> they rely on us to make sure that all the information is collected and that it's clearly identified that it's an issue they need to fix
<dholbach> also do we use the bug reports in Launchpad for our own communication
<dholbach> let's say there's an important crasher bug in gedit - gedit is a very important package: we can't have the text editor crash by the end of release
<dholbach> which is why we target the bug report to a milestone in Ubuntu, so the people who care about the desktop, also the release team know what we still need to fix
<dholbach> any more questions?
<dholbach> if not, I'll crack on and talk a little bit about Distributed Development
<dholbach> please have a look at http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/_images/cycle-branching.png
<dholbach> In this example it would make sense to ship Ubuntu with the existing version of the project, add the bugfix, get it into Upstream for their next release and ship that (if suitable) in the next Ubuntu release. It would be the best possible compromise and a situation where everybody wins.
<dholbach> You can imagine the different code branches as streams of changes, as a developer you often have to make a decision, which of these you are willing to integrate at the current time of the release cycle.
<dholbach> In any case you want to make sure that eventual divergences are merged back.
<dholbach> Not merging them means having to maintain your changes in your own branch for the time, which can become quite expensive.
<dholbach> To sum this up and to reiterate what I said earlier: The most important requirements for success in Ubuntu development are: having a knack for âmaking things work again,â not being afraid to read documentation and ask questions, being a team player and enjoying some detective work.
<dholbach> Good places to ask your questions are ubuntu-motu-mentors@lists.ubuntu.com and #ubuntu-motu on irc.freenode.net. You will easily find a lot of new friends and people with the same passion that you have: making the world a better place by making better Open Source software.
<dholbach> This is part 1 of what I wanted to talk about - are there general question you still have?
<dholbach> alright - let's get cracking and let's set up our development environment together :-D
<dholbach> There are a number of things you need to do to get started developing for Ubuntu. This article is designed to get your computer set up so that you can start working with packages, and upload your packages to Ubuntuâs hosting platform, Launchpad.
<dholbach> oops, replace "this article" with "this session" :-D
<dholbach> over-eager copy and pasting I'd call this :)
<ClassBot> mblank_ asked: you copy the upstream SW at some point in time and then work with this copy until the next ubuntu releas?
<dholbach> mblank, nice question
<dholbach> essentially yes
<dholbach> if you go back to the wiki page with the release schedule you can see Debian Import Freeze
<dholbach> and Feature Freeze
<dholbach> at DIF we basically stop the semi-automatic import of source packages from Debian
<ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
<dholbach> at Feature Freeze we expect new upstream versions to just fix bugs or we ask to file a freeze exception with the release team
<ClassBot> Armin asked: My biggest problem is where to start from, find a bug and fix it is not so easy as it sounds. Do you have any tips on this?
<dholbach> Armin, yes, a good question - I'll go into a bit more detail about this later on
<dholbach> generally it depends what you want to work on
<dholbach> if you are interested in a specific piece of software or a set of packages (based on their functionality or programming language), it's easy to spot these and get cracking on bugs, etc
<dholbach> if you don't know yet, it's a bit harder
<dholbach> for the beginners I'd recommend to start working on a really small, really isolate bug
<dholbach> such as a typo, or a bug that was tagged as 'bitesize'
<dholbach> so you have something easy to immediately spot, fix, build, test and get uploaded
<dholbach> alright, let's crack on with our development environment
<dholbach> We'll cover:
<dholbach> Installing packaging-related software. This includes:
<dholbach>     Ubuntu-specific packaging utilities
<dholbach>     Encryption software so your work can be verified as being done by you
<dholbach>     Additional encryption software so you can securely transfer files
<dholbach> Creating and configuring your account on Launchpad
<dholbach> Setting up your development environment to help you do local builds of packages, interact with other developers, and propose your changes on Launchpad.
<ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
<dholbach> It is advisable to do packaging work using the current development version of Ubuntu. Doing so will allow you to test changes in the same environment where those changes will actually be applied and used.
<dholbach> Donât worry though, the Ubuntu development release wiki page shows a variety of ways to safely use the development release: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UsingDevelopmentReleases
<dholbach> for now, if you run oneiric or some other release, that's totally fine - you can always just retrace the steps of this session if you install the "precise" development release in a vm later on
<dholbach> There are a number of tools that will make your life as an Ubuntu developer much easier. You will encounter these tools later in this guide. To install most of the tools you will need run this command:
<dholbach>   sudo apt-get install gnupg pbuilder ubuntu-dev-tools bzr-builddeb apt-file
<dholbach> If you run oneiric (11.10) (or if you have Backports enabled on a currently supported release), the following command will install the above and other tools which are quite common in Ubuntu development:
<dholbach>   sudo apt-get install packaging-dev
<dholbach> This command will install the following software:
<dholbach> gnupg â GNU Privacy Guard contains tools you will need to create a cryptographic key with which you will sign files you want to upload to Launchpad.
<dholbach> pbuilder â a tool to do a reproducible builds of a package in a clean and isolated environment.
<dholbach> ubuntu-dev-tools (and devscripts, a direct dependency) â a collection of tools that make many packaging tasks easier.
<dholbach> bzr-builddeb (and bzr, a dependency) â distributed version control with Bazaar, a new way of working with packages for Ubuntu that will make it easy for many developers to collaborate and work on the same code while keeping it trivial to merge each others work.
<dholbach> apt-file provides an easy way to find the binary package that contains a given file.
<dholbach> apt-cache (part of the apt package) provides even more information about packages on Ubuntu.
<dholbach> I know this will, depending on your bandwidth, take a bit of time. So let's have some questions!
<ClassBot> cdunlap asked: When I set up my environment, do i need to add the deb-src for precise?  if so, where do I find that info
<dholbach> cdunlap, nice one!
<dholbach> No, for now it's not necessary.
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ubuntu Open Week - Current Session: Getting Started with Ubuntu Development - Part 2 - Instructors: dholbach
<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/10/18/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
<dholbach> but if you want to use 'precise' in a safe manner afterwards for your development, check this out and bookmark it: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UsingDevelopmentReleases
<dholbach> it will show you ways to do this safely, so for example by using a virtual machine, setting up a chroot or other means
<dholbach> immediately upgrading to 'precise' is only for folks who have no problem with dealing daily new pain
<dholbach> 'precise' was just opened as a development release a day or two ago, so there's still lots of moving bits and pieces that will break :)
<dholbach> ok... packages installed? everybody all set?
<dholbach> awesome
<dholbach> First of all, we'll create our GPG key.
<dholbach> If you did that already, you can just lay back and do nothing. :-)
<dholbach> GPG stands for GNU Privacy Guard and it implements the OpenPGP standard which allows you to sign and encrypt messages and files. This is useful for a number of purposes. In our case it is important that you can sign files with your key so they can be identified as something that you worked on. If you upload a source package to Launchpad, it will only accept the package if it can absolutely determine who uploaded the package.
<dholbach> To generate a new GPG key, run:
<dholbach>   gpg --gen-key
<dholbach> GPG will first ask you which kind of key you want to generate. Choosing the default (RSA and DSA) is fine. Next it will ask you about the keysize. The default (currently 2048) is fine, but 4096 is more secure.
<dholbach> Afterward, it will ask you if you want it to expire the key at some stage. It is safe to say â0â, which means the key will never expire. The last questions will be about your name and email address. Just pick the ones you are going to use for Ubuntu development here, you can add additional email addresses later on. Adding a comment is not necessary.
<dholbach> Then you will have to set a passphrase, choose a safe one (a passphrase is just a password which is allowed to include spaces).
<dholbach> Now GPG will create a key for you, which can take a little bit of time; it needs random bytes, so if you give the system some work to do it will be just fine. Move the cursor around, type some paragraphs of random text, load some web page, etc.
<dholbach> Please speak up, if we're going too fast or if I don't make sense, OK? I hope you're all just quiet because you're busy setting up your key. :-)
<ClassBot> mblank_ asked: I already have a PGP Key in Launchpad, do I need a new one for development participation?
<dholbach> mblank, no, if you do, and have it already in LP, you're all set
<ClassBot> Atamisk asked: Is there a way to migrate one PGP key from system to system?
<dholbach> Atamisk, yes, fortunately
<dholbach> and as a bonus, it's very simple: just copy over the whole ~/.gnupg/ directory :)
<dholbach> done
<dholbach> you might still have to hook up your key with your email client or wherever you make use of it, but that should be it
<dholbach> ok, let's crack on and set up our SSH key
<dholbach> again: if you have an SSH key already, no need to bother, just relax and lay back :)
<ClassBot> jamdatadude asked: ââCan we use Ubuntu one to sync that .gnupg directory?
<dholbach> jamdatadude, you can, but I personally would be a bit reluctant - please note that this directory contains also your private key, so the very bit which through the act of signing or encrypting proves to others that you are you
<dholbach> I'm sure the Ubuntu One engineers made the experience as safe as they could, still this is nothing I personally would give out of my hands :)
<dholbach> ok, SSH key
<dholbach> SSH stands for Secure Shell, and it is a protocol that allows you to exchange data in a secure way over a network. It is common to use SSH to access and open a shell on another computer, and to use it to securely transfer files. For our purposes, we will mainly be using SSH to securely upload source packages to Launchpad.
<dholbach> To generate an SSH key, enter:
<dholbach>   ssh-keygen -t rsa
<dholbach> The default file name usually makes sense, so you can just leave it as it is. For security purposes, it is highly recommended that you use a passphrase.
<dholbach> (If your GPG key is not created yet, just open another terminal.)
<ClassBot> hannie asked: Is an openPGP key the same as a PGP key?
<dholbach> gpg (GNU Privacy Guard) implements the OpenPGP standard
<dholbach> I suggest you have a look at http://gnupg.org/ which discusses this in detail
<dholbach> ok, let's crack on, because this is another piece of software which will take a bit longer to get set up
<dholbach> Set up pbuilder!
<dholbach> pbuilder allows you to build packages locally on your machine. It serves a couple of purposes:
<dholbach>  - The build will be done in a minimal and clean environment. This helps you make sure your builds succeed in a reproducible way, but without modifying your local system
<dholbach>  - There is no need to install all necessary build dependencies locally
<dholbach>  - You can set up multiple instances for various Ubuntu and Debian releases
<dholbach> Setting pbuilder up is very easy, run:
<dholbach>   pbuilder-dist <release> create
<dholbach> where <release> is for example precise, oneiric, natty, maverick, lucid or in the case of Debian maybe sid. This will take a while as it will download all the necessary packages for a âminimal installationâ. These will be cached though.
<dholbach> Again: while this runs, just open another terminal.
<dholbach> The next thing we'll do is: tell a few tools a bit about who we are.
<dholbach> First, we'll configure Bazaar
<dholbach> Bazaar is the tool we use to store code changes in a logical way, to exchange proposed changes and merge them, even if development is done concurrently. It is used for the new Ubuntu Distributed Development method of working with Ubuntu packages.
<dholbach> To tell Bazaar who you are, simply run:
<dholbach>   bzr whoami "Bob Dobbs <subgenius@example.com>"
<dholbach>   bzr launchpad-login subgenius
<dholbach> You get bonus points for using your real name and not Bob Dobbs!
<dholbach> whoami will tell Bazaar which name and email address it should use for your commit messages. With launchpad-login you set your Launchpad ID. This way code that you publish in Launchpad will be associated with you.
<dholbach> Note: If you can not remember the ID, go to https://launchpad.net/~ and see where it redirects you. The part after the â~â in the URL is your Launchpad ID.)
<dholbach> And as a last step:
<dholbach> Similar to Bazaar, the Debian/Ubuntu packaging tools need to learn about you as well. Simply open your ~/.bashrc in a text editor and add something like this to the bottom of it:
<dholbach>   export DEBFULLNAME="Bob Dobbs"
<dholbach>   export DEBEMAIL="subgenius@example.com"
<dholbach> Now save the file and either restart your terminal or run:
<dholbach>   source ~/.bashrc
<dholbach> (If you do not use the default shell, which is bash, please edit the configuration file for that shell accordingly.)
<dholbach> If something just went too quick for you: no problem, you can always go back to the log of this session and retrace your steps.
<dholbach> Did anybody face any problems? Or has any questions about what we just covered?
<ClassBot> jamdatadude asked: ââbzr complained that I was missing an SSH key
<dholbach> ha! good point jamdatadude!
<dholbach> I guess what happened was that you created your SSH key alright (does ~/.ssh/id_rsa.pub exist?) but Launchpad did not know about it yet.... which leads us to our next step :)
<dholbach> You can paste your public SSH key (the public one is fine, not the secret one) into https://launchpad.net/~/+editsshkeys
<dholbach> Insert the contents of your public key (usually ~/.ssh/id_dsa.pub or ~/.ssh/id_rsa.pub) into the text box and submit.
<dholbach> Now rerunning the two bzr commands above should work.
<dholbach> Did creating your GPG key finish already?
<dholbach> Once this is done, you will get a message similar to this one:
<dholbach> pub   4096R/43CDE61D 2010-12-06
<dholbach>       Key fingerprint = 5C28 0144 FB08 91C0 2CF3  37AC 6F0B F90F 43CD E61D
<dholbach> uid                  Daniel Holbach <dh@mailempfang.de>
<dholbach> sub   4096R/51FBE68C 2010-12-06
<dholbach> If you look closely, in this case 43CDE61D is the key ID.
<dholbach> (but you can always find out about yours, if you run   gpg --fingerprint <email@address.com>  )
<dholbach> Next, you need to upload the public part of your key to a keyserver so the world can identify messages and files as yours. To do so, enter:
<dholbach>   gpg --send-keys <KEY ID>
<dholbach> This will send your key to one keyserver, but a network of keyservers will automatically sync the key between themselves. Once this syncing is complete, your signed public key will be ready to verify your contributions around the world.
<dholbach> Once all of this is done, you can register your GPG key at https://launchpad.net/~/+editpgpkeys - you can do this later and I'll give you a link to all these instructions later on
<ClassBot> Barzogh asked: is it possible to get a mentor that would help us to begin efficiently on software packaging ? i've already set up my environnement ( pbuilder, etc... )
<dholbach> Barzogh, great question
<dholbach> Barzogh, we tried the concept of 1-on-1 mentoring before, but we struggled quite a bit
<dholbach> there was a huge mass of contributors who wanted a mentor, so we looked hard for people to mentor - a lot of people never followed up responsibly, so we didn't get much out of it, which is very unfortunate
<dholbach> the good news is: we have great docs (I'll give links later on)
<dholbach> and we have very friendly people on #ubuntu-motu who will take your questions
<dholbach> and there's also ubuntu-motu-mentors@lists.ubuntu.com for those of you who prefer mailing lists
<dholbach> also will I try to organise more packaging initiatives this cycle, so we work on packaging challenges together as a team
<dholbach> which will making get involved a lot easier
<dholbach> just follow @ubuntudev on twitter, identi.ca or facebook.com if you want to get updates
<ClassBot> hannie asked: does it matter on which computer I use the pgp key?
<dholbach> hannie, no, you can re-use your gpg key on whichever computer you want
<dholbach> just make sure you copy over the ~/.gnupg/ directory
<dholbach> I know I rushed through these whole instructions a bit quickly, but I hope you generally managed to take it all in :)
<dholbach> More questions?
<dholbach> If not, I'll talk about fixing bugs in Ubuntu in the next 30 minutes
<dholbach> http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/_images/fixing-a-bug.png has a quick illustration of the process of fixing bugs
<dholbach> As you can see in the image above, there is no surprises in the process of fixing bugs in Ubuntu: you found a problem, you get the code, work on the fix, test it, push your changes to Launchpad and ask for it to be reviewed and merged.
<dholbach> -- Finding the problem --
<dholbach> There are a lot of different ways to find things to work on. It might be a bug report you are encountering yourself (which gives you a good opportunity to test the fix), or a problem you noted elsewhere, maybe in a bug report.
<dholbach> Harvest is where we keep track of various TODO lists regarding Ubuntu development. It lists bugs that were fixed upstream or in Debian already, lists small bugs (we call them âbitesizeâ), and so on. Check it out and find your first bug to work on. http://harvest.ubuntu.com
<dholbach> -- Figuring out what to fix --
<dholbach> If you donât know the source package containing the code that has the problem, but you do know the path to the affected program on your system, you can discover the source package that youâll need to work on.
<dholbach> Letâs say youâve found a bug in Tomboy, a note taking desktop application. The Tomboy application can be started by running /usr/bin/tomboy on the command line. To find the binary package containing this application, use this command:
<dholbach>   apt-file find /usr/bin/tomboy
<dholbach> This would print out:
<dholbach>   tomboy: /usr/bin/tomboy
<dholbach> Note that the part preceding the colon is the binary package name. Itâs often the case that the source package and binary package will have different names. This is most common when a single source package is used to build multiple different binary packages. To find the source package for a particular binary package, type:
<dholbach>   apt-cache showsrc tomboy | grep ^Package:
<dholbach> Which will print out:
<dholbach>   Package: tomboy
<dholbach> If you type:
<dholbach>   apt-cache showsrc python-vigra | grep ^Package:
<dholbach> It will print out:
<dholbach>   Package: libvigraimpex
<dholbach> The latter example is a case, where one source package builds multiple binary packages.
<dholbach> Can anyone think of a good reason to have one source package build multiple binary packages?
<dholbach> Ok, I can easily clear this up: in some cases you might want to not give the user the burden to install EVERYTHING.
<dholbach> Let's say you have a small tool which is 15k big, but you have 5MB of documentation - in this case you might want to split the two.
<dholbach> Also if there are multiple libraries or tools with lots of different dependencies, you might want to split them up properly.
<dholbach> -- Getting the code --
<dholbach> Once you know the source package to work on, you will want to get a copy of the code on your system, so that you can debug it. In Ubuntu Distributed Development this is done by branching the source package branch corresponding to the source package. Launchpad maintains source package branches for all the packages in Ubuntu.
<dholbach> Once youâve got a local branch of the source package, you can investigate the bug, create a fix, and upload your proposed fix to Launchpad, in the form of a Bazaar branch. When you are happy with your fix, you can submit a merge proposal, which asks other Ubuntu developers to review and approve your change. If they agree with your changes, an Ubuntu developer will upload the new version of the package to Ubuntu so that everyone gets t
<dholbach> he benefit of your excellent fix - and you get a little bit of credit. Youâre now on your way to becoming an Ubuntu developer!
<dholbach> So far so good?
<dholbach> -- Work on a fix --
<dholbach> There are entire books written about finding bugs, fixing them, testing them, etc. If you are completely new to programming, try to fix easy bugs such as obvious typos first. Try to keep changes as minimal as possible and document your change and assumptions clearly.
<dholbach> Before working on a fix yourself, make sure to investigate if nobody else has fixed it already or is currently working on a fix. Good sources to check are:
<dholbach>  - Upstream (and Debian) bug tracker (open and closed bugs),
<dholbach>  - Upstream revision history (or newer release) might have fixed the problem,
<dholbach>  - bugs or package uploads of Debian or other distributions.
<ClassBot> mblank_ asked: What process should I follow if I found out that there is an upstream fix already?
<dholbach> mblank, nice one!
<dholbach> this depends entirely on where we are in the release cycle
<dholbach> so let's say it's just one more week until release and you want to make sure we fix the bug before the release gets out
<dholbach> in this case you want to try to incorporate just the minimal patch that is required to fix the issue
<dholbach> the same goes for fixing bugs post-release
<dholbach> ie. if you want to get a fix into oneiric-updates now
<dholbach> we call this a SRU, a Stable Release Update
<dholbach> in this cases we want to make absolutely sure that this just fixes the specific issue and nothing else, so we don't bring in additional regressions, etc.
<dholbach> if we're early in the release cycle, you might want to include the whole new upstream release, which is then allowed to also bring in new features and the like
<dholbach> I'll later give a link to instructions on how to use the tools to integrate patches like that easily. I fear we won't have the time in the last 14 minutes.
<dholbach> More general questions?
<dholbach> ok, let me then just quickly cover the rough basics of using Ubuntu Distributed Development
<dholbach> to get the source code for package, you run
<dholbach>   bzr branch lp:ubuntu/<packagename>        (for the latest development release, 'precise' in our case)
<dholbach> and
<dholbach>   bzr branch lp:ubuntu/<release>/<packagename>        (for any other release)
<ClassBot> hannie asked: can I use this procedure when I find typos in GUI or documentation?
<dholbach> hannie, yes, the process is always the same
<dholbach> if you are asking about SRU fixes, typos might not qualify as super serious bug fixes, unless they seriously break things, but the process is the same, yes
<dholbach> so if you branched a package, you can edit and make changes to your hearts delight, Bazaar makes it easy for you to stay focused and on top of things
<dholbach> http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/bzr.2.4/en/mini-tutorial/index.html is a nice tutorial, if you're not familiar with commands such as "bzr diff", "bzr add/remove", "bzr log" and the like
<dholbach> One thing I still want to say about documenting changes
<ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
<dholbach> I mentioned earlier how important it is to communicate very clearly
<dholbach> You don't want anybody to second-guess why you made changes or where exactly they were
<dholbach> have a look at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gedit/2.22.3-0ubuntu2 to see an example of a changelog entry
<dholbach> Again: It is very important to document your change sufficiently so developers who look at the code in the future wonât have to guess what your reasoning was and what your assumptions were. Every Debian and Ubuntu package source includes debian/changelog, where changes of each uploaded package are tracked.
<dholbach> You want to let others know:
<dholbach>  1. where the change was done
<dholbach>  2. what was changed
<dholbach>  3. where the discussion of the change happened
<dholbach> In our (very sparse) example the last point is covered by "(lp: #236953)"
<dholbach> which refers to Launchpad bug 236953. Bug reports or mailing list threads or specifications are usually good information to provide as a rationale for a change. As a bonus, if you use the LP: #<number> notation for Launchpad bugs, the bug will be automatically closed when the package is uploaded to Ubuntu.
<dholbach> so once you're done with your changes, you can easily commit them and push them by running:
<dholbach>   bzr commit
<dholbach> (which will commit the change locally)
<dholbach> To push it to Launchpad, as the remote branch name, you need to stick to the following nomenclature:
<dholbach>   bzr push lp:~<yourlpid>/ubuntu/<release>/<package>/<branchname>
<dholbach> So for example:
<dholbach>   bzr push lp:~emmaadams/ubuntu/natty/specialpackage/fix-for-123456
<dholbach> then you can run "bzr lp-open", which will open the corresponding page on Launchpad, where you can click on â(+) Propose for mergingâ link, to get the change reviewed by somebody and included in Ubuntu.
<ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
<dholbach> We have 5 minutes left and I want you just do one more thing for me:
<dholbach> please bookmark http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/
<dholbach> it's all you should need for the next time, it will help you get started
<dholbach> also drop by in #ubuntu-motu
<dholbach> and don't hesitate ask your questions on ubuntu-motu-mentors@lists.ubuntu.com
<dholbach> I know we had to rush through a lot of content in these 2 hours, so it was very compact.
<dholbach> Maybe we have 1 or 2 closing questions?
<dholbach> in the mean time please bookmark http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/ :-)
<dholbach> (and make sure you follow @ubuntudev on identica, twitter or facebook)
<dholbach> You are all awesome and I hope to see more of you in the 'precise' cycle! Thanks a lot everybody! :-)
<dholbach> Next up is: "Is your system Ubuntu Friendly? Contributing to the community hardware testing program" -- Daniel Manrique (roadmr)
<dholbach> roadmr, the stage is yours
<roadmr> Thanks!
<roadmr> Hello everyone! I'll be talking about Ubuntu Friendly. It'll be a rather hands-on session, with a nice website and a small application involved.
<roadmr> Please feel free to ask questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat at any time.
<roadmr> So, is your computer Ubuntu Friendly? First, let me tell you what Ubuntu Friendly means.
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ubuntu Open Week - Current Session: Is your system Ubuntu Friendly? Contributing to the community hardware testing program - Instructors: roadmr
<roadmr> It means that your computer runs Ubuntu well, and that your devices work as you would expect them to, without needing to configure a lot of things in a difficult way.
<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/10/18/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
<roadmr> We don't actually say that a computer is or isn't Ubuntu Friendly; rather, each model gets assigned a rating (from 1 to 5 stars) indicating how friendly it is.
<roadmr> Think of it as a "friendliness meter" :) Ubuntu Friendly is still in Beta phase, but we're already producing some interesting and useful information.
<roadmr> It's also an area where it's very quick and easy to contribute to the Ubuntu community. I'll show you how in a short while.
<roadmr> So, why do you care about this, as an Ubuntu user?
<roadmr> So, why do you care about this, as an Ubuntu user?
<roadmr> sorry :) By visiting the website at http://friendly.ubuntu.com you can see friendliness ratings for systems that have been tested by other users like you.
<roadmr> You can use these ratings to decide which computer to buy next, ensuring that it will work well with Ubuntu. Or maybe to see what other people say about the one you currently own.
<roadmr> Maybe your company wants to buy computers to run Ubuntu and you'd like to recommend a model that works well.
<roadmr> Or maybe you have a device that's giving you trouble and you'd like to see how it's working for other users with the same model.
<roadmr> In any case the friendliness ratings are quite useful.
<roadmr> As you may know, there is a list of hardware thatâs certified for Ubuntu (http://www.ubuntu.com/certification).  Being on this list depends on manufacturers requesting certification for their systems.
<roadmr> Corporations care about certification, as they like having support from Canonical, but end-users just care about sharing information and getting a system that works.
<roadmr> Ubuntu Friendly wants to fulfill this need by providing data on a lot more models, thanks to contributions by users like you.
<roadmr> Friendliness is not calculated based on a "subjective" rating given by testers. A system testing tool is run on each system, performing a series of automated and manual tests.
<roadmr> This collected data is aggregated to produce both the friendliness rating, and some more detailed reports on each system.
<roadmr> Let's begin by looking at the existing ratings. If you could please go to http://friendly.ubuntu.com you can take a look at information on several systems.
<roadmr> Are you all already there? :)
<roadmr> The website's interface is quite simple: first you'll see a listing of systems (by make and model), their Ubuntu Friendly rating, and the number of people who have rated, or tested, each system.
<roadmr> At a glance you also get information on the CPU (little cog), GPU (screen icon) and wireless (WiFi icon) for each model.
<roadmr> If you click on a model's name (you can do it, open this: http://bit.ly/p2yhmw) you'll see detailed information about each system.
<ClassBot> gersitar asked: this is suppose to be a q/a format session or more like a lecture?
<roadmr> If you have specific questions about the ratings and testing process there'll be time for that in a bit :) for now I'm showing this to people who may not have seen it before
<roadmr> So we're looking at a model's page for a Samsung laptop.
<roadmr> Here you'll get a list of all components in a system, and how many people reported each component as working correctly.
<roadmr> You will notice components are split into "core" and "additional" components. The "stars" for each system are calculated taking this into account.
<roadmr> For a system to have five stars, all components (core and additional) need to be reported as working. This is a system that works pretty much flawlessly with Ubuntu. Maximum friendliness!
<roadmr> A system for which all core components work, but for which none of the available additional components work well, will get only three stars.
<roadmr> A three-star system is considered "usable" but you may have trouble with some non-essential components. Friendly enough!
<roadmr> A system which reports failures on at least one core component (meaning it's going to give trouble in an essential area) will get only one star. This is a quite unfriendly system. Imagine a laptop with no working WiFi!
<roadmr> The split between "core" and "additional" components varies for laptops and desktop systems. The rating displayed on the website takes this into account.
<roadmr> The system I picked has a rating of 3.6, since all core components passed the tests it gets 3 stars, plus 0.6 for the working additional components. Itâs friendly and usable enough but not all additional components will work.
<roadmr> The friendliness rating you see on the front page is an average of all reports. On the detailed view for a system, you can see (top right) the same rating, and a histogram of people reporting for each star rating.
<roadmr> Thus if you see an average rating of 3 stars with 20 reports, but 10 of those are 1-star and the other 10 are 5-star, you may wish to do some deeper research before considering this system.
<roadmr> Back on the main page, you have a search field (top) and some controls to filter results, to narrow down to features you're interested in.
<roadmr> The website's interface as I said is quite simple, I just wanted to go a bit more in-depth on how ratings are calculated and what they mean.
<roadmr> Now, you'll notice that most of the systems on the page have only one "rater". This means only one person has tested and sent data about each particular model.
<roadmr> You may be wondering where the test results come from. This is where it gets interesting. These results have been sent in by the community! Ubuntu users like you.
<roadmr> So you can also help build this resource by testing your system and sending the results. The more people that submit test results for each system, the more reliable they will be. It's the power of community testing aided by some statistics!
<roadmr> I mentioned earlier that a "system testing" tool is used for this. The good news is, it's already installed on your Ubuntu system. If you're running Ubuntu 11.10, you can already help by testing your system.
<roadmr> Let's give it a try so you see how easy it is. We'll run a quick set of tests and I'll show you how to submit those results to Ubuntu Friendly.
<roadmr> Just a comment here. We can't run the whole set of tests right now, because some of them do funny things like suspend your system or test your network.
<roadmr> So to avoid this we'll just be running a small subset of tests. This means the data you submit right now won't be enough to generate an Ubuntu Friendly rating for your system.
<roadmr> But don't worry, after this you'll be able to help by running all the tests.
<ClassBot> genii-around asked: Is the data from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Laptop/Procedures used to produce results at http://friendly.ubuntu.com/ ?
<roadmr> Answer: No, this uses a different procedure and test suite.
<roadmr> So please use your Unity dash to search for "Ubuntu Friendly". Launch the System Testing utility that appears.
<roadmr> If youâre using a derivative like Kubuntu or Xubuntu, you will probably need to install the checkbox and checkbox-gtk packages.
<roadmr> You'll first see a welcome message. We'll ignore the warning about closing all applications, as we will run just a few tests now. Press Next...
<roadmr> It will ask for your password, please input it. In case you're wondering, the password is needed to collect some data about your system. Don't worry, it won't collect or submit any personal information.
<roadmr> Next you'll see a list of available tests. For the data to be useful for Ubuntu Friendly we'd have to leave them all selected... but...
<roadmr> In this case we will press "Deselect All", then select only Graphics tests and Informational tests. Then press "Next" to start testing!
<roadmr> For each test, you'll see a description explaining what to do. Some tests will just ask you a question. Some will ask you to press "Test", then ask you to confirm.
<roadmr> In all cases, you can select "yes" or "no" to answer the question, or "skip" if a test doesn't apply to your system.
<roadmr> For instance if the test is about SD cards but you don't have one handy, select "Skip". Of course, the more tests you do, the better.
<roadmr> Once you select an answer, press "Next" to record it and go on to the next test.
<roadmr> So for instance, when the test asks you to confirm whether resolution is correct for your system, select "Yes" or "No" and press "Next".
<roadmr> If it asks you to press "Test" to display a video test, do so, and check that the video test works well, then select "Yes" or "No" and press "Next". Simple!
<roadmr> Hopefully everyone is doing well with this quick test :)
<roadmr> Once it's done, it will say "The following report has been generated".
<roadmr> On this screen, you can have a look at a report about your system by clicking on "View Report". There's also a text field right above the "Previous" and "Next" buttons.
<roadmr> If you want to send your results in to Ubuntu Friendly, please put your e-mail address here, then click "Next".
<roadmr> (Though as I mentioned earlier, this test set is small and won't make it into Ubuntu Friendly - but this is how you'd go about testing and sending in your results)
<roadmr> Once your results are sent in, they will be processed and your system's test results will be added to Ubuntu Friendly after a few hours.
<roadmr> And that's it! it's easy and quick to contribute to Ubuntu Friendly. So running the full set of tests on your system is a great way to help.
<roadmr> okay! I have some resources to share with you about Ubuntu Friendly but I think it's a good time for questions, maybe some of your questions will be solved by the extra material I have
<ClassBot> ikt asked: what about computers that are custom built, will ubuntu friendly eventually extend to rate each individual parts? or maybe a subset of specific parts like video cards/cpus etc?
<roadmr> great question! so, UF rates systems as a whole, so a custom-built computer will probably be identified by some OEM data given by the motherboard
<roadmr> BUT components are rated individually within each submission
<roadmr> so it'll be easy for people to see "hey, this is a 5-star system" - then go in, and look at exactly the components you have and how they tested
<roadmr> if they want to duplicate your system and get a 5-star Ubuntu box it's doable
<roadmr> of course, if it's a very custom configuration, the number of raters will be low (potentially just you), so the statistical usefulness of the results could be low, but that's why we show number of raters on each submission
<roadmr> so people can use that information to decide how reliable the data is.
<roadmr> Thanks for this question!
<ClassBot> arasbm asked: are components such as wacom pen, multitouch panel, or fingerprint reader considered for testing when appropriare?
<roadmr> The list of components that are tested and considered is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuFriendly/Process/Components
<roadmr> I can tell you that fingerprint readers are not tested
<roadmr> wacom pen would probably be tested as a pointing device - just basic mousing functionality
<roadmr> and multitouch panel - same thing, we don't test for things such as multitouch and gestures
<roadmr> some of these tests are "manual" in that you have to tell us whether the mouse or trackpad works, if you consider it to not be working due to lack of these features you can say "No" and add a comment to that effect
<ClassBot> danne asked: Are partial tests included or just complete tests?
<roadmr> I assume you mean a partial test run, such as the one we just did :)
<roadmr> For a test run to be valid, you need to leave all the tests selected in the test selection screen
<roadmr> so for instance the one we did wouldn't be valid for UF as there are a lot of components that we didn't test
<roadmr> if your system lacks a certain component and you know you shouldn't test it, please leave it selected anyway
<roadmr> you'll have a chance to skip the test if it doesn't apply to your system
<roadmr> This particular bit is explained in our "how to participate" page, and here's one of the resources I wanted to share with you: http://friendly.ubuntu.com/participate/
<roadmr> ara did a wonderful screencast on how to test your system, so if you want a refresher on how to run the test suite, this is where you should go :)
<ClassBot> azteech asked: if tester has multi-monitor set up, does each monitor get tested, and results reported as showing multi-monitor capable?
<roadmr> I guess it depends on how complex your multihead setup is :)
<roadmr> we basically test each port separately. This is a purely manual test where we ask if your VGA connector is working
<roadmr> we test VGA and HDMI video output
<roadmr> so again, if you have a multihead setup and think it's not working well, you're welcome to say "No" and provide more details about it
<roadmr> however, if you have a specific problem with a certain hardware component in Ubuntu, probably the best way to go is to file a bug report about it
<ClassBot> arasbm asked: is there a process for people to add new tests to be included?
<roadmr> there's no formal process at the moment, however, if you're interested in helping improve the test suite, there's plenty of work to be done, and plenty of room for suggestions
<roadmr> If you'd like to get involved a bit more, you can take a look at this page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuFriendly.
<roadmr> The Ubuntu Friendly Squad is the group that works on the whole process, and we always welcome contributors
<roadmr> as a technical "good to know", the test suite is contained in the "checkbox" package, so you can always go and have a look at how the tests work
<roadmr> did anyone have problems while running the small test set a few minutes ago? :)
<roadmr> As I mentioned before, Ubuntu Friendly is still in beta phase. So some tweaks may still be done to the rating system and the test suite. User feedback is very important for this.
<roadmr> So if you have any questions, comments, suggestions, other than the resources I already posted (web page and Ubuntu Friendly Squad webpage)
<roadmr> you can also report problems with the Ubuntu Friendly website ("Report a Problem" up top)
<roadmr> We're always happy to receive feedback, bug reports, and comments
<roadmr> If you have any questions you can ask us in the Ubuntu Friendly mailing list (ubuntu-friendly-squad@lists.launchpad.net). People who know about Ubuntu Friendly also hang out in #ubuntu-testing.
<roadmr> any more questions? comments? :)
<ClassBot> chute_ asked: will there be a version for pre 11.10 ubuntus?
<ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
<roadmr> great question.. but I think we don't have that planned :( Hardware evolves pretty quickly and the software needs to evolve to keep up with that
<roadmr> so we're focusing on the latest releases
<roadmr> and we certainly want this to be quite mature for 12.04 due to its LTS nature
<roadmr> but to answer your question, no, really you need 11.10 for things to work. Sorry about that...
<roadmr> we still have a few minutes so ask away :)
<roadmr> So it seems everybody is busy testing :)
<ClassBot> arasbm asked: can tests be performed from a live flash disk or cd?
<ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
<roadmr> I think they can be run from a live cd, but not from a live usb, because the disk configuration confuses the tests (since we also test USB), sorry about that
<roadmr> it's really best if you can test from a hard disk installation
<ClassBot> chute_ asked: is the data gathered from checkbox-gtk feeding the UF database?
<roadmr> yes, well the system testing utility also known as checkbox submits results to a database from which the UF ratings are generated
<roadmr> it doesn't feed UF directly, results are batch processed and stored in processed form in UF
<roadmr> if you're interested in knowing a bit more about the technical details you're welcome to join the Ubuntu Friendly Squad, the folks who developed that infrastructure are in that group
<roadmr> any (literally) last-minute questions? :) make it a short one, only 50 seconds for me to reply
<roadmr> well so let's wrap it up :)
<roadmr> That's it for this session, thanks for coming and happy testing!
<roadmr> I leave you in Cheesehead's capable hands :) (Ubuntu Brainstorm!)
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ubuntu Open Week - Current Session: Ubuntu Brainstorm: Will your idea change the world? - Instructors: Cheesehead
<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/10/18/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
<Cheesehead> roadmr: Thanks!
<Cheesehead> roadmr: Thanks for a great session of Ubuntu Friendly.
<Cheesehead> The Ubuntu-US-WI LoCo team will host an Ubuntu Friendly party on IRC (#ubuntu-us-wi) in nine hours. Anybody welcome to join us.
<Cheesehead> .
<Cheesehead> Welcome to the session on Brainstorm
<Cheesehead> Brainstorm: Will your idea change the world?
<Cheesehead> (The answer, by the way, is "Yes")
 * Cheesehead pauses for breath
<Cheesehead> Ubuntu Brainstorm ( http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com )is a place for people to post their ideas about Ubuntu.
<Cheesehead> They can be promoted/demoted, and the most popular are reviewed by the Ubuntu developers.
<Cheesehead> Brainstorm is one of the many good ways to contribute to the Ubuntu community.
<Cheesehead> .
<Cheesehead> Let me lecture about 20 lines with Brainstorm background, then we'll get to the GOOD STUFF - what Brainstorm can do for you, and how you can contribute to Brainstorm.
<Cheesehead> Brainstorm opened in February 2008.
<Cheesehead> Way back then, there was a lot of grumbling and in the community. Users grumbled that their feedback was ignored. Developers grumbled that feedback was swamping them.
<Cheesehead> Brainstorm was one of many solutions to address those issues. It has evolved a bit from it's roots, but is still true to the original mission (a place to post, most popular get reviewed by developers).
 * Cheesehead sips from a handy glass of water
<Cheesehead> .
<Cheesehead> We currently receive about 6,000 ideas a year.
<Cheesehead> Every idea goes through a review-and-approval before opening to votes.
<Cheesehead> That review-and-approval process is really important - I'll talk more about that in few minutes.
<Cheesehead> Around 600-700 ideas will be opened to votes and comments this year.
<Cheesehead> Finally, the top 40 ideas get reviewed by the Ubuntu Technical Board (UTB). 10 every three months.
<Cheesehead> All UTB-selected ideas get feedback. And some become UDS-sessions, some get milestoned for future releases, some get adopted other ways, and a few get outright rejected.
<Cheesehead> At first glance, a 6% selection rate by UTB doesn't seem great.
<Cheesehead> But remember, that's just *one* avenue for getting the idea implemented! (The one that publishes results)
<Cheesehead> Ubuntu is NOT a top-down hierarchy, and implementing Ideas is not the UTB's job anyway.
<Cheesehead> *Anyone* can implement an idea, or start a project to implement an idea.
<Cheesehead> *Any* project or team can use an idea from Brainstorm.
<Cheesehead> *Any* individual can be inspired by a Brainstorm idea, and run with it.
<Cheesehead> Some other teams do use Brainstorm for feedback, and some developers use it as a polling system. None currently publish numbers about how many ideas they use.
 * Cheesehead sips from his drink again.
<Cheesehead> .
<Cheesehead> So, how can you mold the future of Ubuntu through Brainstorm?
 * Cheesehead pauses a moment to let everyonje catch up
<Cheesehead> .
<Cheesehead> There are FIVE ways you can help.
<Cheesehead> .
<Cheesehead> 1) You can contribute ideas
<Cheesehead> .
<Cheesehead> 2) You can contribute solutions to other ideas.
<Cheesehead> More and better solutions are really the key to getting a good idea recognized, upvoted, and implemented.
<Cheesehead> For example, a common generic idea is to add Feature X to Application Y. But that ignores all the other similar applications.
<Cheesehead> Another solution might be to create a lib (or add to an existing lib) so all applications can benefit.
<Cheesehead> *You* contribute those better solutions
<Cheesehead> .
<Cheesehead> 3) You can add constructive comments to other ideas. Better yet, if you are skilled in the appropriate area,
<Cheesehead> you can probably recruit the submitter onto your team, or mentor them on how to implement a solution themselves.
<Cheesehead> If you're on a project looking to add new members, you can see the benefit there!
<Cheesehead> .
<Cheesehead> 3) You can add constructive comments to other ideas. Better yet, if you are skilled in the appropriate area,
<Cheesehead> you can probably recruit the submitter onto your team, or mentor them on how to implement a solution themselves.
<Cheesehead> Wait...I just said that
 * Cheesehead is happy nobody noticed
<Cheesehead> .
<Cheesehead> 4) You can be a liason between Brainstorm and other Ubuntu teams and communities.
<Cheesehead> You become a bridge, sharing your knowledge and experience of your communities with the Brainstorm community,
<Cheesehead> and sharing the appropriate ideas with your other Ubuntu communities.
<Cheesehead> For example, you can help review ideas: "Yeah, we thought of that last year, and are already working on it (IN DEVELOPMENT)"
<Cheesehead> And you can help bring good ideas to your team: "Say, an idea popped up on Brainstorm to replace our internal database with a CouchDB"
<Cheesehead> This is a particularly good way to get feedback AND squash rumors.
<Cheesehead> ...and even recruit a new member?
<Cheesehead> .
<Cheesehead> 5) You can help review ideas, and mentor the idea submitters on how to improve them, clarify them, and make them more useful.
<Cheesehead> Or to help refer the submitter to a more appropriate venue like the Bug Tracker or the correct Ubuntu Team that handles the issue.
<Cheesehead> The Brainstorm reviewers and moderators do a lot of that.
 * Cheesehead sips from his drink again.
<Cheesehead> Okay, that's the end of the lecture portion of the evening.
<Cheesehead> While you fellows think up some questions, I'm going to pretend to have a snack.
 * Cheesehead pretends to have a snack
<ClassBot> chute_ asked: Where can those 600-700 ideas be visualized?
<Cheesehead> Visualized?
<Cheesehead> I suppose you mean read-or-searched. On the brainstorm site.
<Cheesehead> http:brainstorm.ubuntu.com
<Cheesehead> If you mean more advanced info visualization techniques...
<Cheesehead> a collaborator on the Ideatorrent software to develop such tools would be welcome.
<ClassBot> h00k asked: Is there a list of implemented features that came from Ubuntu Brainstorm?
<Cheesehead> Sort of.
<Cheesehead> Developers don't always credit their initial inspiration...
<Cheesehead> So we don't know if some came from Brainstorm or from the Bug Tracker ...
<Cheesehead> or from a UDS discussion or upstream.
<Cheesehead> We do track implemented ideas from all sources, not just directly implemented from Brainstorm
<Cheesehead> It's on the main page, the "Implemented Ideas" tab.
<ClassBot> Talinus asked: Can you give as an example for an already implented feature, that was suggested on brainstorm.ubuntu?
<Cheesehead> Essentially the same question (not the questioner's fault I type slow!)
<Cheesehead> Since the Ubuntu moderators don;t track ideas after they leave Brainstorm, I hesitate to authoritatively claim a new feature
<Cheesehead> I didn't code it - a developer did. So I'll let the developer have the credit no matter the source.
<Cheesehead> Fair enough?
<Cheesehead> .
<Cheesehead> There is a valid point to the question:
<Cheesehead> What *good* is Brainstorm is I can't see any ideas get implemented?
<Cheesehead> Well, that's too narrow a definition.
<Cheesehead> Brainstorm is a huge gateway for new users
<Cheesehead> And we refer them over to LoCos and teams and help them find ways to get involved.
<Cheesehead> That's good.
<Cheesehead> Developers *do* use Brainstorm for inspriation...even if sometimes the final result is different from the original Idea.
<Cheesehead> Ubuntu Friendly is a classic example of that...
<Cheesehead> In 2008, the first day of Brainstorm, the idea of an automated hardware database was proposed.
<Cheesehead> And kicked around for years.
<Cheesehead> Finally, Ubuntu Friendly made it actually happen.
<Cheesehead> Does that mean that Brainstorm influenced the creation of Ubuntu Friendly?
<Cheesehead> I honestly don't know. I helped moderate the idea, it was seen by a *lot* of eyes, and I suspect it had an impact...
<Cheesehead> even though the final implementation is different from any of the solutions.
<ClassBot> madjr asked: Why dont Ubuntu Developers also submit their ideas to brainstorm for feedback or even receive better suggestions? I ask this , because It seems many are ignoring brainstorm lately as it doesnt feel integrated or officially used by everyone enough, like if it were a side project or something from a third party
 * Cheesehead adjusts hit tie
<Cheesehead> Man, tough crowd!
 * Cheesehead laughs
<Cheesehead> That's a great question.
<Cheesehead> And like many great questions, it can have a lot of answers.
<Cheesehead> For example...most developers I know like to develop.
<Cheesehead> They're not thrilled with bugtracking or documentations or...
<Cheesehead> lots of the other administrivia associated with developing.
<Cheesehead> This kind of feedback is both administrivia and optional
<Cheesehead> so I'm not too surprised that some developers opt not to do it.
<Cheesehead> I personally dislike ironing shirts, so I don't iron a lot of my shirts.
<Cheesehead> If a developer wants to let their code or product speak for itself, well...it's their choice.
<Cheesehead> And that highlights how non-developers can help on a project.
<Cheesehead> Non-develoeprs can help document, can help triage bugs, can help communicate the project with the world.
<Cheesehead> And can help add that information to brainstorm
<Cheesehead> .
<Cheesehead> You also raised the point that sometimes Brainstorm feels disconencted from the rest of the community.
<Cheesehead> Well, sometimes it does.
<Cheesehead> But that isn't the community's fault.
<Cheesehead> That's something that is 100% Brainstorm-user fixable.
<Cheesehead> Brainstorm users are supposed to bring their own experience and knowledge to the various ideas (see 2,3,4 above)
<Cheesehead> And they do, in droves.
<Cheesehead> Again, Brainstorm is only the first step to getting an idea implemented
<Cheesehead> If you rely on somebody else to do all that research and coding and legwork, what do they get out of it?
<Cheesehead> But if you use Brainstorm as one tool in your toolbox, along with the rest of the community, the Teams, upstream projects, and more...
<Cheesehead> And you use those tools appropriately,
<Cheesehead> Then you have a much greater chance of success.
<ClassBot> madjr asked: ok, thank you, but why not have some ideas that need "design" and will affect many users get a mandatory mark as "needs more feedback from community, public and/or other developers". Worth considering ! :)
<Cheesehead> Well, ideas that need 'design' may be more appropriate to a different venue.
<Cheesehead> Brainstorm is *not* a useful venue to tell other people to go create things for you.
<Cheesehead> There is no roomful of coding monkey sitting around, waiting to start jamming on the next idea.
<Cheesehead> Doesn't exist. I wish it did, but it doesn't.
<Cheesehead> (And their code quality wood be awful anyway)
<Cheesehead> (Every time I ask a roomful of monkeys to produce anything they just fling feces at me and type a lot of Shakespeare)
<Cheesehead> .
<Cheesehead> If it 'Needs more feedback', then it's in the voting queue, and Brainstorm has built-in 'publicize it' tools, graphics and links.
<Cheesehead> And it can get feedback and votes over *years*, if need be.
 * Cheesehead sips from his drink again.
 * Cheesehead ambles over to the snack table and picks up a carrot
 * Cheesehead slowly chews the carrot, steely gaze swinging around the room *daring* somebody to ask a question
<ClassBot> callaghan asked: I like how the Banshee developers did it: They created a PPA for an upcoming version, an article was published on OMGUbuntu! and the users started putting suggestions for improvement in the comments. David Nielsen answered nearly all of them and also considered them. This is something that should be done on Ubuntu Brainstorm for more projects...
<Cheesehead> That's also a great way to get direct feedback on a project
<Cheesehead> I'm not going to say that Brainstorm is the right way for everybody under all circumstances
<Cheesehead> That would be silly
<Cheesehead> In those circumstances, an established project, a limited set of feedback, users who knew where to find it, and a managable number of responses. Great!
<Cheesehead> Brainstorm has some additional benefits (and contraints)
<Cheesehead> And Brainstorm has had a ton of Banshee ideas.
<Cheesehead> Another opportunity for a Banshee-involved non-developer to make a big difference as a liason.
<Cheesehead> One of Brainstorm's big benefits to smaller projects is that it's already-installed infrastructure
<Cheesehead> Complete with moderation to weed out bugs and irrelevancies!
<Cheesehead> All your project needs to do is provide a volunteer part-time liason to check the queue every few days.
<ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
<Cheesehead> If you're interested more in how moderation works, how to get your project into Brainstorm (you can, you know!), how to use Brainstorm to recruit new members, just drop by #ubuntu-brainstorm and we can help you find a solution.
<Cheesehead> Similarly, if you're new to the Ubuntu community, and you're not sure where to go. You have an idea, but not sure how to get from here to there...drop by and talk to a moderator. We can give you good advice, talk over the various choices and venues with you, and set you in the right direction.
 * Cheesehead sips from his drink again.
<ClassBot> madjr asked: As per the last question of banshee. Would be a good move to have launchpad integrate better with brainstorm (kind how some projects use "Get Satisfaction" for users to vote on ideas, etc.), what do you think ?
<Cheesehead> Great question.
<Cheesehead> And one that has been debated before.
<ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
<Cheesehead> Launchpad and Brainstrom have very different missions.
<Cheesehead> Launchpad is for project management and code
<Cheesehead> Brainstorm is for discussing problems and alternatives
<Cheesehead> There is a lot of crossover.
<Cheesehead> A lot of Brainstorm ideas are actually misfiled bug reports.
<Cheesehead> But they lack enough detail be a useful launchpad bug report
<Cheesehead> I think their fields are dissimilar enough to keep them separate for the next few years.
<Cheesehead> Brainstorm was started because not every issue needed to fit into a bug report or development milestone.
<Cheesehead> And some of the really good ideas cross multiple packages or concepts. Back in 2008 Lauchpad wasn't as good at those as it is now.
<Cheesehead> Thanks everyone!
<Cheesehead> See you in Brainstorm!
<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/10/18/%23ubuntu-classroom.html
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat ||
<Microsoft__> hi >:)
<Microsoft__> !help
<ubot2> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<Microsoft__> !ban
<ubot2> If you have been banned it is probably because you have not gone along with what is acceptable !behaviour. If you're not sure what acceptable !behaviour is please see !Etiquette and http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines - If you think the ban was a mistake, please join #ubuntu-ops
<Microsoft__> !virus
<ubot2> Antivirus is something you don't need on !Linux. except where files are then passed to windows computers (perhaps using samba), See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Antivirus
<Microsoft__> Wrong!
<Microsoft__> there is actually 9,000 viruses for linux as of today.
<Microsoft__> go to
<Microsoft__> http://goggle.com for the virus list ;)
<Microsoft__> jk that is a spam link but there is viruses now.
<Microsoft__> !spam
<ubot2> Factoid 'spam' not found
<Microsoft__> !Rules
<ubot2> The people here are volunteers, your attitude should reflect that. Answers are not always available. See http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines
<Microsoft__> !rules
<Microsoft__> !emergency
<ubot2> Factoid 'emergency' not found
<Microsoft__> l
<Microsoft__> d
<Microsoft__> d
<Microsoft__> d
<Microsoft__> d
<Microsoft__> d
<Microsoft__> d
<Microsoft__> !spam
<ubot2> Factoid 'spam' not found
<Microsoft__> d
<Microsoft__> d
<Microsoft__> d
<Microsoft__> d
<Microsoft__> d
<Microsoft__> d
<Microsoft__> d
<Microsoft__> d
<Microsoft__> d
<Microsoft__> a
<Microsoft__> e
<Microsoft__> jjee
<Microsoft__> r
<Microsoft__> e
#ubuntu-classroom 2011-10-19
<sebsebseb> hi
<jcastro> woo hoo!
<jcastro> how is everyone doing today?
<tcarrondo> :)
<tcarrondo> I'm here
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ubuntu  Open Week - Current Session: Advanced dualboot (Win/Ubuntu) config sharing a lot of stuff! - Instructors: tcarrondo
<tcarrondo> so that's me
<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/10/19/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
<tcarrondo> Hi everyone, my name is Tiago Carrondo I'm an IT trainer for the last 7 years
<tcarrondo> I teach a lot of uninterresting stuff, but since 2008 most of my session are about Ubuntu
<tcarrondo> I see almost everyday all the resistence and dificulty people have to change from one OS to another.
<tcarrondo> So my work here today is to share with all of you what I think is the best confortable way to really start using Ubuntu everyday for all our ordinary tasks,
<tcarrondo> and don't just do a simple dualboot where there is a work space area (Win) and "the other thing" where I go to just try and play some youtube videos (Ubuntu)
<tcarrondo> Feel free to ask all the questions you have, in #ubuntu-classroom-chat with the prefix "QUESTION:"
<tcarrondo> I hope my rusty English don't betray me...
<tcarrondo> .
<tcarrondo> I'm assuming you all are experienced with both Win and Ubuntu installation
<tcarrondo> And I promise that during the next week or so I'll share with you more detailed instructions of all the steps I will present here today for those of you that need it
<tcarrondo> .
<tcarrondo> Let's start then!
<tcarrondo> .
<tcarrondo> When a person is willing to start a everyday usage of Ubuntu needs to have in it all the documents, photos, videos, ttf, mails, bookmarks, emails, calendar, ...
<tcarrondo> That are present in his regular everyday system.
<tcarrondo> First step is to rearrange partitions: I normally advise using 1 NTFS for Win 2 for Ubuntu (swap + EXT4 for /) and a third one for all the rest NTFS too, so that it can be accessed from both systems with no trouble (today I'll call it "STUFF")
<tcarrondo> The idea is to isolate the system files in their own partitions and all the shareable data in the third
<tcarrondo> sounds simple, and it really is! :)
<tcarrondo> After installing both OS we should create in STUFF  a folder named with the user of the system
<tcarrondo> Inside that folder we should create our personal folders ; Docs, Photos, Music, Videos, Downloads
<tcarrondo> Then in Win we change the locations os theses folders to those in STUFF
<tcarrondo> And do the same in Ubuntu
<tcarrondo> First problem solved: Now we have all our personal files seamlessly tidy
<tcarrondo> I can now open that document that I have in that specific folder of my Docs
<tcarrondo> .
<tcarrondo> After a few docs opened we start noticing that there are some ttf missing!
<tcarrondo> Next step: sync ttf with Win
<tcarrondo> some tutorials explain how to add a single ttf file or a folder,
<tcarrondo> but I prefer to create a link inside /usr/share/fonts/truetype to my win Fonts folder
<tcarrondo> and then just run "fc-cache" regularly or create a monthly cron for doing that :)
<tcarrondo> .
<tcarrondo> Don't forget to ask all the questions you have in #ubuntu-classroom-chat
<tcarrondo> .
<tcarrondo> After those 2 steps we can now spend at least 50% of our worktime in Ubuntu
<tcarrondo> Let's to to INternet navigation:
<tcarrondo> Almost everyone knows (and uses) Firefox and Chrome(ium)
<tcarrondo> Both browsers have sync options for bookmarks, prefs, settings that are OS independent
<tcarrondo> So you just need to set up those services and you'll have the same Firefox or Chrome, no matter what's the OS you're using
<tcarrondo> For those who really like IE, you can use Xmarks and have the same job done
<tcarrondo> syncing in Ubuntu with Chromium or Firefox
<tcarrondo> 20 min passed and still no questions, there are 2 possibilities: I'm doing a great job or everybody's a sleep...
<tcarrondo> Next in line is my precious calendar service
<tcarrondo> .
<tcarrondo> I use google calendar
<tcarrondo> it's really simple to add it to my desktop, using Sunbird or thunderbird
<tcarrondo> on both Ubuntu and Win
<tcarrondo> And my Android, of course..
<ClassBot> taliraj asked: by changing the location, you meann the path of the folders? how do we do that on ubuntu? I'm not sure i have andersted this....when i open the document folder in my home, i can see the files which are in STUFF. sorry for my english
<tcarrondo> taliraj, great question!
<tcarrondo> I've tried a lot of procedures for doing this
<tcarrondo> the simplest is drag n drop
<tcarrondo> I open my personal folder
<tcarrondo> delete the Documents folder
<tcarrondo> then just CTRL + SHIFT drag n drop the docs folder in STUFF to my personal folder
<tcarrondo> and rename it Documents
<tcarrondo> and of the links are restablished everywhere
<tcarrondo> some other ways i've tried don't work as good as this
<tcarrondo> taliraj, hope I've cleared your doubt (my english is limited too)
<tcarrondo> No more questions, I'll continue
<tcarrondo> for email service I use gmail (or gapps)
<tcarrondo> and once more I use Thunderbird as a client
<tcarrondo> that can be configured same way in both OS
<tcarrondo> I don't know if there's a way of sharing the complete Thunderbird profile folder between OS, so that I just need to configure things in one place
<tcarrondo> but I haven't got the time to run some tests yet, so I allways configure mail and calendar twice :)
<tcarrondo> With these steps most people can start using Ubuntu for their regular tasks, as if they where in their old OS
<tcarrondo> And I one more step, that helps me a lot
<tcarrondo> saving time and bandwidth
<tcarrondo> that is: don't double syncing my cloud files
<tcarrondo> I use both U1 and dropbox
<tcarrondo> but I haven't really tried U1 in Win yet, so for now I'll stick with dropbox
<tcarrondo> When dropbox is installed there's a folder in my personal folder with all my contents
<tcarrondo> but Win has one and Ubuntu another
<tcarrondo> if I use the same folder for use with both Ubuntu and Win, I'll spend less bandwidht e significant less time
<tcarrondo> So, we go back to STUFF partition and create a Dropbox folder
<tcarrondo> Then you just have to point your Dropbox software to that folder in Ubuntu let it sync everything and then in Win (or the contrary)
<tcarrondo> This can be done during installation
<tcarrondo> or in the preferences menu after install
<tcarrondo> theres just an Issue with this
<tcarrondo> when we reboot switching OS too quickly, once in a while it creat 1 or 2 conflicted version of files
<tcarrondo> Any questions?
<tcarrondo> Or suggestions?
<tcarrondo> I'm almost done then
<tcarrondo> Just tell you that I tried this formula a lot of times, with unexperienced users, and the results are great
<tcarrondo> We have 10min left
<ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
<ClassBot> taliraj asked: How can we mont STUFF on startup?
<tcarrondo> taliraj, thanks for helping me not feeling alone in here :)
<tcarrondo> the easy way:  install ntfs-config
<tcarrondo> you can also edit /etc/fstab (the "a little more hard way")
<ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
<ClassBot> Deckard3 asked: sorry i haven't the begining but as u say to make a partition for dropbox, also we can use that same partition for thunderbird , right?
<tcarrondo> We use a dropbox folder in another partition that can be accessed for both win and ubuntu
<tcarrondo> as for Thunderbird, theoretically it should work
<tcarrondo> but I haven't tried yet
<tcarrondo> 2min
<tcarrondo> 1 more question?
<tcarrondo> taliraj,  I'll my students will help me publishing the detailed tutorials for each one of these steps until sunday :)
<tcarrondo> so that I can share them with everyone in PT and in EN
<tcarrondo> Thanks for coming to this session, good luck with your next dualboot
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ubuntu Open Week - Current Session: How to contribute translating Ubuntu - Instructors: dpm
<tcarrondo> I leave you with dpm
<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/10/19/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
<dpm> hi everyone
<dpm> I hope you liked tcarrondo's great session
<dpm> now it's translation time! :-)
<dpm> I prepared a series of slides for the session, which you'll find here and should make it easier for you to follow along:
<dpm> http://ubuntuone.com/2BO0P9Vt1Pp40dhiXXHnZv
<dpm> For those of you using Lernid, the [SLIDE n] commands should get you to the right page in the presentation. For everyone else, they should help you knowing which slide I'm taling about each time.
<dpm> [SLIDE 1]
<dpm> My name is David Planella, and I work as the Ubuntu Translations Coordinator in Canonical, in the Community team
<dpm> there I have the pleasure to work with Ubuntu legends such as Ahmed Kamal, Jorge Castro, Daniel Holbach, and least but not last our fearless leader, Jono Bacon.
<dpm> Most importantly, I have the privilege of working with the awesome Ubuntu Translations community
<dpm> Be very welcome to this session on Ubuntu Translations, where we'll see:
<dpm>  - How Ubuntu can be translated into almost any language,
<dpm>  - The work of our (again) awesome translation teams,
<dpm>  - How Launchpad can be used to translate Ubuntu in a distributed manner,
<dpm>  - And how to get started translating Ubuntu
<dpm> Oh, I almost forgot: I've reserved some time at the end of the session for questions, but feel free to ask them at any time during the talk
<dpm> Just remember to ask them on #ubuntu-classroom-chat and to prepend them with QUESTION:
<dpm> So, without further ado...
<dpm> [SLIDE 2]
<dpm> Benvinguts, Willkommen, Bienvenidos, ãããã, Welcome, íìí©ëë¤, Bem-vindo, Ongietorri, à¦¸à§à¦¬à¦¾à¦à¦¤à¦®, Welkom, MirÃ« se erdhÃ«t, BienllegÃ¡u, á¥áá³á á°áá áá¡, ÐÑÑÐ°ÐµÐ¼, ÙØ±Ø­Ø¨Ø§, Dobro doÅ¡li, Donedigezh vat, ÐÐ¾Ð±ÑÐµ Ð´Ð¾ÑÐ»Ð¸, æ­¡è¿, DobrodoÅ¡li, æ¬¢è¿, Velkommen, Welkom, Bonvenon, Tere tulemast, Tervetuloa, Bienvenue, Wolkom, Benvido, ÎÎ±Î»ÏÏ Î®ÏÎ¸Î±ÏÎµ, ××¨×××× ×××××, ÃdvÃ¶zÃ¶ljÃ¼k, Ve
<dpm> lkomin, Selamat Datang, Benvenuti, à²¸à³à²¸à³à²µà²¾à²à²¤, WitÃ´j, ÒÐ¾Ñ ÐºÐµÐ»Ð´ÑÒ£ÑÐ·, Esiet sveicinÄti, Sveiki, Selamat Datang, à¤¸à¥à¤µà¤¾à¤à¤¤à¤®à¥, Velkomen, Benvenguda, Witamy, Bun venit, ÐÐ¾Ð±ÑÐ¾ Ð¿Ð¾Ð¶Ð°Ð»Ð¾Ð²Ð°ÑÑ, ÐÐ¾Ð±ÑÐ¾Ð´Ð¾ÑÐ»Ð¸, Vitajte, VÃ¤lkommen, à®¨à®²à¯à®µà®°à®µà¯, à¸¢à¸´à¸à¸à¸µà¸à¹à¸­à¸à¸£à¸±à¸, HoÅgeldiniz, ÐÐ°ÑÐºÐ°Ð²Ð¾ Ð¿ÑÐ¾ÑÐ¸Ð¼Ð¾, Ø®ÙØ´ Ø¢ÙØ¯ÛØ¯, ChÃ o má»«ng, ÙÛØ±Ú¾Ø§Ø¨Ø§ !!!
<dpm> (if I've forgotten to welcome in your language, do write a big "welcome" in #ubuntu-classroom chat, and I'll include it here too :)
<dpm> Ubuntu has a very diverse community, and one of the aspects this diversity is directly reflected is in the number of languages it is translated into,
<dpm> and the strong communities built around them.
<dpm> As of Ubuntu 11.10, Natty Narwhal, the OS is translated into nearly 40 languages
<dpm> and many more nearly complete
<dpm> Check out the impressive work of our translators:
<dpm> http://people.canonical.com/~dpm/stats/ubuntu-11.10-translation-stats.html
<dpm> pretty cool, eh? :)
<dpm> [SLIDE 3]
<dpm> "Every computer user should be able to use their software in the language of their choice" lies at the very core of the Ubuntu philosophy
<dpm> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/ubuntustory/philosophy
<dpm> which is why we encourage the creation of translation communities and provide them resources to ease the process of translation into their own language
<dpm> so that anyone, without requiring advanced technical skills, can start contributing from day one.
<dpm> So let's try to answer some basic questions...
<dpm> [SLIDE 4]
<dpm>  
<dpm> Who translates Ubuntu?
<dpm> ----------------------
<dpm> That's an easy one: Ubuntu Translators :-)
<dpm> They are volunteers who organise themselves in translation teams, appointed to be responsible for the translation of a given language.
<dpm> And
<dpm> they
<dpm> just
<dpm> rock
<dpm> repeat it with me :)
<dpm> You can see the full list of Ubuntu translation teams here:
<dpm> https://translations.launchpad.net/+groups/ubuntu-translators
<dpm> which is another impressive list
<dpm> We've currently got about 160, of about 300 registered languages for Ubuntu in Launchpad, our translation tool
<dpm> So if there isn't an Ubuntu translation team for your language, now is the chance to create one :)
<dpm> but more on that later
<dpm> Also very important to mention is the work of upstream translators, whose effort Ubuntu benefits greatly from.
<dpm> Ubuntu includes the best-of-breed Open Source software of the many independent projects available, which is what we call upstream.
<dpm> Translations are no exception, and if these upstream projects are translated outside of Ubuntu, we import and use the awesome work of upstream translators
<dpm> Let's see some numbers about our amazing translations community:
<dpm> nearly 18.000 translators who've submitted at least one translation,
<dpm> coming from more than 240 countries.
<dpm> A default Ubuntu installation contains about 160.000 translatable messages,
<dpm> which can go up to 475.000 when adding non-default apps such as GIMP, Inkscape, etc.
<dpm> So you see that there's a lot of work to do, and _you_ can help in making Ubuntu better supported in your language.
<dpm> Let's se how...
<dpm> ah, before going further, any questions so far?
<dpm> it seems we're good :)
<dpm> [SLIDE 5]
<dpm>  
<dpm> How is Ubuntu translated?
<dpm> -------------------------
<dpm> We use our very own translations tool: Launchpad Translations
<dpm> Launchpad Translations allows you to easily translate projects online
<dpm> and seamlessly build and organise translation communities around them.
<dpm> It also allows translating complete Operating Systems, Ubuntu being the most prominent example.
<dpm> You can start translating Ubuntu here:
<dpm>     https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu
<dpm> There you'll see a list of translatable applications and documentation, ordered by priority and ready to translate
<dpm> The colored bars you see is the percentage of translation: green meaning translated messages and red untranslated ones
<dpm> Which comes handy when trying to track progress and find out which apps need to be translated
<dpm> In any case, you'll need a Launchpad account to contribute to translations
<dpm> It's really easy to create one, and the great thing is that it will allow to log in to other Ubuntu services. It's a unified login for all, so you will only need to create one account ever to contribute to Ubuntu.
<dpm> And for those of you familiar with OpenId, the account is OpenId-enabled, which means you can even use it as a login to some external sites!
<dpm> Anyway, talking about submitting your first translations to Ubuntu, instead of going to the Launchpad URL in your browser,
<dpm> alternatively, you can go directly to translatable applications in Launchpad from your desktop.
<dpm> If you open an application and go to Help > Translate this application...,
<dpm> your browser will be started and it will take you to the Launchpad Translations page for that application.
<dpm> Which is pretty neat
<dpm> You can try this: open Gedit, go to "Help > Translate this application..." and see it for yourself.
<dpm> (I'll leave you some time to try it out)
<dpm> On the browser window that opens you can start submitting translation suggestions from day one.
<dpm> This will take you to the translation page in your preferred language
<dpm> which you can then click on and you'll see the list of translatable applications for
<dpm> in Launchpad, using the standard translations terminology, these are called templates
<dpm> and are the translatable units translators work with
<dpm> I really recommend using Launchpad for online translation
<dpm> it is really easy and flexible
<dpm> and it allows saving your work, even before it is reviewed, facilitating the QA work
<dpm> to ensure users get high quality translations
<dpm> that said, if you prefer translating offline, Launchpad Translations is flexible enough to let you download PO files (the underlying text files used for translations)
<dpm> to be used in offline translation tools
<dpm> These files are standard, so you can use any PO file editor available out there
<dpm> You'll find a bunch in the Ubuntu Software Centre
<dpm> Ok, let's move on, any questions so far?
<dpm> [SLIDE 7]
<dpm> all right then, next:
<dpm>  
<dpm> How can I contribute?
<dpm> ---------------------
<dpm> As in any Open Source project, the important thing is communication.
<dpm> While everyone can submit translation suggestions in Launchpad,
<dpm> they will need to be reviewed by Ubuntu translation teams before being used.
<dpm> We do not only want to provide the best translated OS, but also the best quality of translations.
<dpm> So we also encourage translation teams to communicate through any means appropriate
<dpm> most teams use a mailing list
<dpm> but others also forums, IRC, etc.
<dpm> and most of them have also got a wiki page in the Ubuntu namespace
<dpm> where they coordinate their work
<dpm> So the next step in contributing to Ubuntu Translations is to get in touch with the translation team for your language,
<dpm> and tell them you'd like to contribute.
<dpm> It's easy: you can just find them on
<dpm>     https://translations.launchpad.net/+groups/ubuntu-translators
<dpm> On that page, you can simply click on the links under the "Team/Supervisor" column and they will take you to the Launchpad page for the team
<dpm> You see that finding the language is easy, it's on the column on the left
<dpm> and most translation teams are named as follows:
<dpm> "Ubuntu <language> translators"
<dpm> where <language> is the name of the language they translate into
<dpm> on their Launchpad page you'll find all the info you'll need to get in touch with them
<dpm> If there isn't a team for your language yet, you should definitely start one
<dpm> You can do it by following these simple steps:
<dpm>     https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/KnowledgeBase/StartingTeam
<dpm> creating a team is a one-off thing, which shouldn't take too long
<dpm> and after the new team has been appointed, you can start translating in Launchpad straight away
<dpm> If that step gets too technical for you, do not worry
<dpm> You can always get in touch with the global translations community and ask for help or advice, which is always a good idea
<dpm> Also if you want to start any discussion on Ubuntu Translations
<dpm> In true Ubuntu spirit, everyone is welcome there, and you'll get to know lots of interesting people from all over the globe :)
<dpm> Here's how to get in touch with the global translations community:
<dpm>     https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/Contact
<dpm> To wrap up, I'd also recommend you to look at these pages to get started with translations:
<ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
<dpm> * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/
<dpm> * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/QuickStartGuide
<dpm> [SLIDE 8]
<dpm>  
<dpm> Q&A
<dpm> ---
<dpm> So I hope that that gave you a taste of how translation works in Ubuntu and how you can join our awesome translators.
<dpm> Now feel free to ask any questions about anything related to translations.
<dpm> Bring them on! :-)
<ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
<dpm> So if there are no questions, I'll just say thanks for listening in, I hope you enjoyed the session and hope to see some of you translating Ubuntu in the near future! ;-)
<dpm> cheers!
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ubuntu Open Week - Current Session: Volunteer Leadership -What does it take? - Instructors: akgraner
<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/10/19/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
<akgraner> hi all!
<akgraner> Hi Iâm Amber Graner and Iâm an active Ubuntu user and Ubuntu Community member and all around FOSS advocate. Iâve been a volunteer in some form or fashion since I was a pre-teen - within my hometown, High School Marching Band, Red Cross, MS Society, Religious Organizations, US Army, Family Readiness Groups, PTO/PTAs and more. Iâm excited to share my thoughts on volunteerism and leadership.
<akgraner> Within the Ubuntu Comunity, Iâm an active blogger, co-author of the 6th Edition of the Official Ubuntu Book, former Ubuntu Women Leader, Active on the NC LoCo team, and recently elected to the Ubuntu Community Council and active on the newly formed Ubuntu Leadership Team (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuLeadership). So leadership and volunteerism is something I love to learn about and share.
<akgraner> So letâs get started! :-)
<akgraner> (If I go to fast or to slow - someone ping me in -chat and I'll adjust)
<ClassBot> cprofitt asked: How did you become involved in the Offical Ubuntu Book?
<akgraner> At first I was asked if I would be a reviewer then from there was asked if I would help co-author - and each cycle we always look for new reviewers
<akgraner> I was asked by other authors and the confirmed through the publishers
<akgraner> First - Thank you all for attending!
<akgraner> Leadership is something that is talked about a lot in our community these days?  What does that mean really?
<akgraner> A common definition of a leader is âA leader is a person who influences a group of people towards the achievement of a goal.â
<akgraner> In the Ubuntu Community we have many wonderful people who voluntarily take on the roles and responsibilities to become a leader; those individuals who give selflessly of their time, talent and treasure are known as the leadership throughout our community.  Whether itâs on one of the many councils, boards, teams, or projects they lead; they are leaders! (Thank you all for taking on those roles  - you are appreciated and you matter!)
<akgraner> (from: http://akgraner.com/?p=1037)
<akgraner> I am sure or at least I hope many of you attending and participating today are current leaders in some form or fashion as well as those of you who would like to become more involved with Leadership within the community.
<akgraner> In this session I want to go over some of the skills and leadership style that are needed to be an effective and efficient leader in a volunteer community. Specifically the Ubuntu Community,  but this information can tweaked for any group/leader.
<akgraner> so let's look at this list
<akgraner> *Delegates
<akgraner> *Team Player
<akgraner> *Goal-Orientated
<akgraner> *Promotes Diversity
<akgraner> *Polite
<akgraner> *Confident
<akgraner> *Supportive
<akgraner> *Flexible
<akgraner> *Organized
<akgraner> *Communication Skills
<akgraner> *Fair
<akgraner> *Honest
<akgraner> *Responsible
<akgraner> *Sense of Humor
<akgraner> *Good Role Model
<akgraner> *Calm
<akgraner> *Ethical
<akgraner> *Assertive
<akgraner> *Enthusiastic
<akgraner> *Positive Attitude
<akgraner> That's a pretty long list and it's often hard to balance all these at the same time
<akgraner> Good Leaders take time to self-assess and figure out where they are weakest at and seek to improve upon those areas
<akgraner> I know I don't always get them right all the time, but I do go over this list (as well as the others I'll be presenting a little later) constantly looking for areas I can improve upon
<akgraner> People with these character traits are likely to be very successful in a number of life roles,
<akgraner> and (LoCo, Team, Project) leaders who possess many of these traits have a good chance of influencing people to want to make the LoCo, Team, Project etc work well.
<akgraner> But *every * leader has a starting point, and the best training many leaders receive is through the experience of helping out other team members.
<ClassBot> cprofitt asked: Any advice for leaders on how to best self-assess?
<akgraner> Sometimes that can be a difficult, but here's what I do - I ask people to look at the list and give me feedback (honest feedback)
<akgraner> I look at comments that people give me when working on a project together
<akgraner> I look at how I handled a given situation and ask if there was a better way I could or should have handled it
<akgraner> however, if you search on like for leadership and self-assessment there are some good sites out there as well
<akgraner> many of these sites are free to use - and can help you determine what type of leader you are and what areas you can improve upon
<akgraner> (I don't have the list with me - but can add some of them I use to a blog post after this session)
<akgraner> Any other questions about what I have listed so far?
<akgraner> ok...great
<akgraner> Leaders must have general goals to accomplish within the Team or Project, some of which include but arenât limited to the following:
<akgraner> (Looking at Ubuntu in this list but again these can be tweaked for other volunteer groups as well)
<akgraner> * Understand the Ubuntu project goals
<akgraner> * Create or improve the Project or Team
<akgraner> * Convey the vision of the Ubuntu project goals to the Project or Team team.
<akgraner> * Gain membersâ support; let members know how they can help meet Project or Team  goals
<akgraner> * Identify and recruit other leaders to chair meetings/lead within the group
<akgraner> * Organize and plan for successful Project or Team events with the help of other team members.
<akgraner> * Train every member (who wants to know) what to do as a leader with your Project or Team
<akgraner> *  Encourage team members to talk, work, and socialize together.
<akgraner>  * Actively promote diversity.
<akgraner>  * Work through others to get tasks done.
<akgraner> * Monitor leadership actions of key leaders.
<akgraner>  * Assess progress toward Team or Project goals periodically.
<akgraner>  * Change course when needed.
<akgraner> * Praise people publicly and often.
<akgraner>  * Interact effectively with the Ubuntu Councils, Boards, Teams Projects, and team members.
<ClassBot> cprofitt asked: When dealing with conlflict between two team members or two sub-team groups what can you suggest as best practice?
<akgraner> Keeping in mind this is my suggestion and my style may differ from others but here is how I try to work this out
<akgraner> 1) understand what is behind the conflict
<akgraner> is it an error in communication styles
<akgraner> are the people really agreeing but can't see that? (sometimes that happens)
<akgraner> 2) what motivates the people  - behind every disagreement are people who are passionate about the issue
<akgraner> 3) Is it something that can or should be worked out  - sometimes people just have to agree to disagree - I mean is what they are disagreeing about within their control to change
<akgraner> (example many people disagree with let's say Unity and they argue over it, but the people who are often arguing over it, don't have the power to change it)
<akgraner> 4) is it due to leadership styles
<akgraner> the way one interacts in a volunteer organization is rarely the same as a corporate situation
<akgraner> so you have to get to the bottom of the conflict and sometimes that is tricky and unpleasant
<akgraner> but once you figure that part out the work to resolve the issues can begin
<akgraner> cprofitt, did that answer your question?
<akgraner> also In Jono's Art of Community he lists some great strategies as well
<akgraner> ok so any questions on the general goals list?
<akgraner> keeping in mind those are broad goals and each project and team can narrow the scope of those based on the needs/goals of their particular team or project
<akgraner> ok moving on :-)
<akgraner> Are Teams and Projects within Ubuntu considered Social Organizations?
<akgraner> short answer - Absolutely, yes!
<akgraner> The social value of teams and groups in todayâs Ubuntu Community is critically important. The fact is, without social mingling and meaningful, fun activities for all many projects and teams donât/wonât survive for long.
<akgraner> To be effective, Projects and Teams should have characteristics such as:
<akgraner> (ok here's another list for you all)
<akgraner> * positive, friendly, informal environment
<akgraner> * no cliques
<akgraner> * clear goals
<akgraner> * meaningful, fun activities to participate in as a whole
<akgraner>   * decentralized decisions
<akgraner> * everyone included
<akgraner> * timely, accurate information flow
<akgraner>  * no gossip
<akgraner> I can think of a few groups (LoCo teams) that do all these well
<akgraner> or at least what I've seen - Florida, Vancouver, Pennsylvania and others
<akgraner> I know there are others but the effectiveness  of these teams is a result of some awesome leadership
<akgraner> How does a leader exhibit the traits and skills discussed so far and still get the job
<akgraner> done?
<akgraner> Can the leader be kind and considerate and achieve the goals of the project/team? What is the âjob,â really?
<akgraner> Recall that the job is to improve cohesion, morale, and self-reliance among people who have choices (to participate or not).
<akgraner> Letâs look at some different leadership styles:
<akgraner> * DirectingâLeader is task oriented, with little group input, limited group experience or time.
<akgraner> * CoachingâLeader is both task and group oriented; directs and encourages the groupâs effort, but the group is more experienced and makes inputs to the process. The leader watches progress and coaches the group as needed to keep on track. This style of leadership is prevalent in business (especially big corporations).
<akgraner>  * SupportingâLeader is group oriented; sets the overall project goals and supports the groupâs efforts. The group has considerable experience and therefore makes major inputs  on planning and decisions. The leader review progress at intervals and suggests changes.
<akgraner>  * DelegatingâLeader is more interested in group interaction than the outcome of the project. The group is highly experienced, and they define the project goals, plan, make decisions, and control their own work.
<akgraner> So, which leadership style should leaders in the Ubuntu Community use?
<akgraner> (gald you asked :-D)
<akgraner> glad even
<akgraner> Very simply, for a volunteer group, coaching and supporting styles work best.
<akgraner> (that's not to say that a combination of the these styles may have to be used)
<akgraner> However, with more critical concerns, use coaching, but the directing style should rarely (if ever) be used. More routine tasks call for a supporting style, even delegation for simple ones.
<akgraner> Ubuntu leaders may find it necessary to use any or all of these styles. The situation, experience of the group, and time needed to accomplish the task are all factors that help determine the style.
<akgraner> Other  leadership skills include ability to supervise, motivate people, manage multiple projects, and work harmoniously with a variety of personalities.
<akgraner> Hereâs is a list of important activities for supervising/leading/managing people: (pick the term you like best)
<akgraner>  * Know Volunteers - listen and track
<akgraner> * Plan
<akgraner> * Encourage
<akgraner> * Support
<akgraner> * Get Feedback
<akgraner> * Evaluate
<akgraner> * Correct Privately
<akgraner> * Pitch In
<akgraner>  * Praise, Say Thank You, let team members know they matter
<akgraner> Supervising /leading/managing in a volunteer community may be different than your experience supervising in a business or other environment.
<ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
<akgraner> Some team members may be more technically skilled than you are in some areas, or may have different goals than you and/or the group do.
<akgraner> You don't have a supply-and-demand relationship or work flows common to most work environments. Instead, team members have both their own goals and their own skills.
<akgraner> Effective volunteer leadership is often not really about making decisions. Instead, volunteer leadership is often about discovering the goals and skills of your fellow volunteer team members, developing a consensus of goals to pursue, and facilitating the details of that consensus so everybody has fun. It's also often about coaching, mentoring and providing feedback.
<akgraner> Ok so that is a lot of information - any questions?  Anything I didnât mention that you want to ask about?  Remember people are people, communities are communities and these leadership skills are a basic foundation to effective and efficient leadership.
<akgraner> Also much of the information presented today is modified from other Leadership Handbooks for volunteer organizations Iâve been involved with which includes but not limited to, FRGâs (Family Readiness Groups), MS Society, Red Cross, PTO/PTAs and more.
<akgraner> All this information and more is also included in the LoCo Leaders Handbook that the Ubuntu Leadership Team is currently working on - this initiative was started 4 cycles ago and is just now taking off (If you are interested in contributing to this Handbook or reviewing it - please let the Ubuntu Leadership Team (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuLeadership)  know)
<ClassBot> rrnwexec asked: Much of what we hear/read about under the topic of "leadership" is actually more about "management". Which of these do you feel is more difficult in a volunteer setting? And, which one is needed more in the Ubuntu project?
<akgraner> I think I answered this one in the last part of the session  - also cprofitt posted a great link in -chat which is- http://guides.wsj.com/management/developing-a-leadership-style/what-is-the-difference-between-management-and-leadership/
<akgraner> we have about 6 minutes left is there anything else?
<ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
<akgraner> if not - then thank you all so much for attending - and I hope you found this session useful!
<akgraner> talk amongst yourselves dpm is up next  with - Writing your first Ubuntu app....
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ubuntu Open Week - Current Session: Writing your first Ubuntu app - Instructors: dpm
<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/10/19/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
<dpm> hey everyone, and thanks akgraner for a great session!
<dpm> Hello all
<dpm> Welcome to this introductory session on writing an app for Ubuntu
<dpm> aka the first step to becoming a full-blown Ubuntu App Developer :)
<dpm> For those of you who've been to my earlier session a couple of hours ago,
<dpm> you'll probably know me already and the session was good enough for you to stick for the second one
<dpm> so thanks! :)
<dpm> For anyone joining now, my name is David Planella, and while I generally work as the Ubuntu Translations Coordinator in the Community team at Canonical,
<dpm> this last cycle I've been more and more involved in the app development community.
<dpm> It's a new and exciting territory, and I hope you enjoy it as much as I do
<dpm> What we are going to see today is a very gentle but fast introduction to writing an app for Ubuntu, with a real and simple example you can play with on your own time, explore and expand upon
<dpm> The idea is not to concentrate on the example itself, but rather to get you familiar with the tools and processes to use and to follow throughout your app's lifecycle, which hopefully will whet your appetite for more :)
<dpm> And also to direct you to the right places to ask for help
<dpm> The way the session will be structured will be a bit like the developer journey on the app developer site at developer.ubuntu.com,
<dpm> so it will be similar to a tour through the site, which is the place you'll generally go to whenever you need more information or whenever you submit an app to ultimately be published in the Software Centre.
<dpm> So something like:
<dpm> 1. Get started
<dpm> 2. Resources
<dpm> 3. Publish
<dpm> 4. Community
<dpm> Oh, and the developer site is, of course, at http://developer.ubuntu.com
<dpm> The time is limited, so we'll go into more detail into the more practical step of getting started, which is more fun, and we'll just say a few words on the other steps.
<dpm> If you've got questions during the session, feel free to ask!
<dpm> just do it on #ubuntu-classroom-chat and prepend them with QUESTION:
<dpm> So,
<dpm> let's roll
<dpm>  
<dpm> The tools
<dpm> ---------
<dpm> Throughout the session we'll be talking about Quickly.
<dpm> This is what we'll use to create Ubuntu apps. Quickly is nothing else than a command-line utility which acts as a wrapper around the tools we chose to be part of the Ubuntu SDK, if you will.
<dpm> (people seem to like the SDK word)
<dpm> It provides a set of commands to act as shortcuts to the key actions a developer most usually needs while writing a piece of software. They are quite handy, and they really make life easier for you.
<dpm> Here are some examples of such commands:
<dpm> $ quickly edit - to open your code files in an editor of your choice
<dpm> $ quickly debug - to start debugging graphically your application
<dpm> $ quickly package - to automatically package your app for you
<dpm> Note that you don't have to use quickly commands if you are already familiar with the tools. Quickly just provides the glue and a few shortcuts. So for example using 'quickly save' is the same thing as 'bzr commit' (the Bazaar command).
<dpm> You can see a nice overview of the underlying tools and the commands to activate them here:
<dpm> http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/quickly-workflow/
<dpm> The ones you'll see today are Python, Glade and a bit of Bazaar and Debian packaging, although those two will rather be working in the background
<dpm> The other nice thing about quickly is that it installs all the packages you'll need to get started hacking on Ubuntu.
<dpm> (as in hacking a new app)
<dpm> So if you want to follow along and create your first app, go ahead and:
<dpm> * Install quickly by opening http://apt.ubuntu.com/p/quickly on your browser
<dpm> I'm assuming you are using Ubuntu 11.10, but the example app should also work with Ubuntu 11.04
<dpm> We'll be writing some code in Python, and while you don't have to be a Python pro, I'm assuming some familiarity with the language or at least with another programming language.
<dpm> (I'll wait for a minute to let you install quickly)
<dpm> ok
<dpm> oh, btw, in principle, you can use any combination of tools and programming languages for Ubuntu apps. It's just that we simply cannot support every single combination under the sun, so we made a set of oppinionated choices on the tools we think are best and are best supported in Ubuntu
<dpm> and put them together with quickly
<dpm> So if you create apps with quickly, they'll be easier to create, review and publish in the Software Centre
<dpm> ok, let's move on to the fun part :)
<dpm>  
<dpm> Step 1: Get started
<dpm> -------------------
<dpm> So here we are, ready to write our first app, already excited?
<dpm> This is the stage we get straight to business and put on our developer hats for some hacking fun. At this point we generally have an idea of the type of app we want to write and go for the implementation.
<dpm> In this case, we'll be writing a very very simple 'Hello world!' type of app, but with a twist: ours will be an 'Ubuntu rocks!' app.
<dpm> You'll find the code available here for reference:
<dpm> https://code.launchpad.net/~dpm/+junk/ubuntu-rocks
<dpm> But we'll write it together
<dpm> I'm adding the link here, as I say, for reference, and in case you get lost at some point.
<dpm> What you see here is the version-controlled version of the app, safely hosted in Launchpad, the online collaboration tool for developing open source projects, another of our recommended toolset choices.
<dpm> I'll be pointing to particular revisions in there to show you the changes throughout the app creation stage, but you can also download it to explore it.
<dpm> You can do that by running the following command on a terminal:
<dpm> $ bzr branch lp:~dpm/+junk/ubuntu-rocks
<dpm> (don't type the leading "$", it's just to mark that it's a command)
<dpm> This will use Bazaar to fetch the code. Don't worry about the amount of lines of code there: most of it is boilerplate created by quickly.
<dpm> This corresponds to the first stop in the journey of an Ubuntu App Developer, of which you can get a taste here:
<dpm> http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/
<dpm> You can watch the video later, it's short and gets quickly to the point, but for now, and given that we've already installed the tools, we'll start writing some code.
<dpm> Enough talk, now let's get onto it for real!
<dpm> 1. Open a terminal (press the Ctrl+Alt+t key combination)
<dpm> 2. Run the following command (again, don't type the leading "$", it's just to mark that it's a command):
<dpm>    $ quickly create ubuntu-application ubuntu-rocks
<dpm>    -- This will create the boilerplate code for your app, and a first saved revision, so you can concentrate on other more important things :)
<dpm> 3. Enter the folder where the code lives now, by running:
<dpm>    $ cd ubuntu-rocks
<dpm>    -- You'll see all the files Quickly created there. Don't worry too much about them for now, but you can examine them with the file browser later on (e.g. typing 'nautilus .' to fire up the file browser in the folder)
<dpm> 4. Next up, we'll modify the AUTHOURS file to indicate we're the authors of the code. This is needed by some commands later on. Now type the following:
<dpm>    $ gedit AUTHORS
<dpm> 5. On the text editor window, add your name and e-mail, then you can save and close the file
<dpm> 6. In order to keep our work, it is good practice to save revisions from time to time. Now it's as good a time as ever. You can do that now by typing:
<dpm>    $ quickly save "Updated authors file"
<dpm>    -- Now there is a revision identified by a number and the message you passed quickly saved under revision control. You can always come back to it if you like.
<dpm>    -- This corresponds to http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~dpm/+junk/ubuntu-rocks/revision/2
<dpm>    -- What you're looking at there is the state of the files at the stage I saved my work, which should be similar to yours, apart from a different e-mail and name, of course :)
<dpm> 7. Now let's add some real code, fire up the text editor to open all the project files:
<dpm>    $ quickly edit
<dpm> Btw, is everyone fine so far? Any questions?
<dpm> they tell me all fine on #ubuntu-classroom-chat. Cool, let's move on, then :)
<dpm> 8. Modify the file focused on the editor (__init__.py), as follows:
<dpm>    * Add an 'import appindicator' statement at the top of the file, so that we can use the appindicator module
<dpm>    * Add the following piece of code after the '# Run the application.' line (use the same indentation!): http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/713330/
<dpm>    * This corresponds to revision http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~dpm/+junk/ubuntu-rocks/revision/3
<dpm> Compare that revision with your code to ensure they match before saving
<dpm> So once you've done that:
<dpm> 9. Now try to see if everything went well, run the application:
<dpm> *drum roll*
<dpm>    $ quickly run
<dpm>    * If you didn't get any errors, hooray and congrats! Check out the new indicator at the top right-hand corner :)
<dpm>    * If you did get errors, I'd recommend downloading the original app as explained earlier, or double checking that your code corresponds to the revision I mentioned on the last step (unfortunately we're tight on time on this session and can't provide much support)
<dpm> Any success stories on #ubuntu-classroom-chat?
<dpm> Yes! We've got a success story!
<dpm> awesome
<dpm> What you see there is your first ever Ubuntu app with indicator support! \o/
<dpm> The code is relatively simple, and we just added indicator support through the indicator API, a menu and a few entries to populate the indicator. There are comments in the code that explain each bit in more detail
<dpm> (3 success stories on #ubuntu-classroom-chat so far!)
<dpm> 10. Now save your app by running:
<dpm>     $ quickly save "Added an indicator with some entries"
<dpm> 11. Let's modify the UI a bit, to direct people to the indicator and give you a taste of UI design. Fire up glade, the GUI designer:
<dpm>     $ quickly design
<dpm> 12. What you see are the widgets that are part of your app's main window. You can modify them visually with Glade. Go to the widget tree on the top right-hand side, expand the ubuntu_rocks_window until you find 'label1' and select it.
<dpm> 13. Now go to the properties dialog below the widget tree and find the 'Label:' property. Change it to something like: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/713357/
<dpm> 14. Check out that the app runs with your UI changes:
<dpm>     $ quickly run
<dpm> Everything allright until here?
<dpm> I'll have to go a bit faster as we're running out of time, but we're nearly done anyway
<ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
<dpm> I hear 'like delphi but with python. love it :)' from #ubuntu-classroom-chat :-)
<dpm> 15. Save the final version of your app:
<dpm>     $ quickly save "Modified the GUI with a note"
<dpm> So you're done!
<dpm> Well done to everyone who made it this far: your first Ubuntu app in just a few minutes, which is pretty cool
<dpm> Let's go quickly through the next steps after this
<dpm>  
<dpm> Step 2: Resources
<dpm> -----------------
<dpm> Once you've created your first app, you'll hopefully want to know more, to see where you can take your newly acquired and shiny app developer skills.
<dpm> The answer is near: the resources section on developer.ubuntu.com:
<dpm> http://developer.ubuntu.com/resources/
<dpm> There you'll find all the documentation and links to external documentation you need, including API reference, the platform overview diagram and tutorials.
<dpm> This is a very new and growing section, and we need your help. In true open source style, you can also contribute your tutorials to be featured in developer.ubuntu.com!
<dpm> Check out http://developer.ubuntu.com/resources/tutorials/all/
<dpm>  
<dpm> Step 3: Publish
<dpm> ---------------
<dpm> Ultimately, the last step to ensure wide adoption of your app is to publish it to the Software Centre.
<dpm> There it can be exposed to our million-wide user base so that they can enjoy what you've created.
<dpm> In order to make this easy for you, we're also providing you some tools to make this incredibly simple for you. Enter My Apps:
<dpm> https://myapps.developer.ubuntu.com/
<ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
<dpm> An online tool to submit your apps to be published to the Software Center
<dpm> You'll find more info on the publishing process here: http://developer.ubuntu.com/publish/
<dpm> If you're using quickly, you can use the 'quickly package' or 'quickly submitubuntu' commands to create packages ready tu upload to My Apps and be reviewed by the App Review Board, who will check the quality of the package and applications before being accepted into Ubuntu
<dpm> You can try the 'quickly package' command with your app already to produce a working Debian package
<dpm> You can then click on the resulting package to get Software Centre to install it on your system
<dpm> But of course the real deal is when your package ends up in the Software Centre and gets exposed to all Ubuntu users
<dpm>  
<dpm> Step 4: Community
<dpm> -----------------
<dpm> As I've got not much time left, let me point you to http://developer.ubuntu.com/community/
<dpm> There you'll find all the info you need to get support, and if you like
<dpm> to get involved in the app developer community
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ubuntu Open Week - Current Session: Social Networking in Ubuntu: What's new? - Instructors: kenvandine
<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/10/19/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
<kenvandine> Hello everyone!
<kenvandine> Thanks for joining me today, we'll be talking about what's going on with social networking in Ubuntu 11.10.
<kenvandine> we'll have plenty of time for questions at the end, so please hold on to them for a bit :)
<kenvandine> Ubuntu includes a social networking desktop service, named Gwibber.
<kenvandine> Gwibber isn't new to Ubuntu, it has been included for quite a while now.
<kenvandine> The intent isn't just to provide a twitter or facebook client, but it is to provide a means for you to interact with your favorite social networks.
<kenvandine> Gwibber does include a client application that aggregates the social networking sites you love to use, into one convenient place as well as allow you to post to multiple accounts simultaneously.
<kenvandine> For 11.10, the Gwibber client received a complete face lift, in fact a complete re-write.
<kenvandine> The previous version had many great features, but ended up being quite limiting when we wanted to improve the overall user experience.
<kenvandine> With the new Gwibber client, there aren't really many new "features" however it is important to note not all previous features made it in.
<kenvandine> The most notable missing feature is the multi-column view, we'll work hard to make sure it returns in Gwibber 3.4 in Ubuntu 12.04.
<kenvandine> as for new features, the long sought after native retweet support was added
<kenvandine> both displaying retweets natively and retweeting
<kenvandine> there is obviously still lots of room for improvement, but we'll talk about that a bit later on
<kenvandine> Now lets talk a bit about other ways you can use your favorite social networking services from Ubuntu.
<kenvandine> Integration in the messaging menu
<kenvandine> in case people aren't familiar with the term, it is located at the top right side of your screen with the small envelop icon
<kenvandine> the messaging menu displays (surprise) messaging related information
<kenvandine> email, chat, social networks, etc
<kenvandine> Included is numbers of unseen posts from gwibber
<kenvandine> and a menu item for launching the update status poster, which we'll talk about in a bit
<kenvandine> http://people.canonical.com/~kenvandine/uow-2011/indicator-update-status.png
<kenvandine> hopefully you all recognize that
<kenvandine> the unseen counts displayed aren't new for 11.10, but "Update Status" is
<kenvandine> those counts get zeroed out when you display the stream where the count comes from
<kenvandine> messages, replies, and private messages
<kenvandine> ok, moving on
<kenvandine> Integration in the Unity Launcher
<kenvandine> lets start with the screenshot first this time, should save some explaining :)
<kenvandine> http://people.canonical.com/~kenvandine/uow-2011/launcher-update-status.png
<kenvandine> the Unity Launcher includes Quick menus, which are accessible on a right click
<kenvandine> a right click on the Gwibber icon will raise this menu
<kenvandine> which includes access to Accounts, Preferences, Update Status and Refresh
<kenvandine> clicking on Refresh there makes gwibber refresh it's streams, which is normally done on a regular interval
<kenvandine> this can also be accomplished with hitting F5 when the client is in focus
<kenvandine> the gwibber icon on the Unity Launcher also displays an unseen count
<kenvandine> similar to the count displayed in the messaging menu
<kenvandine> only it is the sum of all the unseen, not broken down by messages, replies and private
<kenvandine> this provides a nice view of what you have waiting for you, in easy view
<kenvandine> now lets talk about the new Update Status Poster
<kenvandine> it's a simple posting dialog, that does nothing else
<kenvandine> accessible from the launcher and messaging menu
<kenvandine> http://people.canonical.com/~kenvandine/uow-2011/update-status.png
<kenvandine> you can post to all or any of your social networks without having the gwibber client running
<kenvandine> everything i've mentioned so far is included in the default install of Ubuntu 11.10
<kenvandine> now we'll talk about the Unity Lens for Gwibber
<kenvandine> you can install it with http://apt.ubuntu.com/p/unity-lens-gwibber
<kenvandine> or whatever method you prefer
<kenvandine> with the lens you can:
<kenvandine> Display all posts including videos, photos, links, replies, etc
<kenvandine>   http://people.canonical.com/~kenvandine/uow-2011/dash-gwibber-filter-messages.png
<kenvandine> Search and filter results
<kenvandine>   http://people.canonical.com/~kenvandine/uow-2011/dash-gwibber-filter-messages-search.png
<kenvandine> the lens also returns results in a global search, from the dash
<kenvandine> or you can go right to the lens by clicking on the microblogging icon at the bottom of the dash or with the super-g key combination
<kenvandine> the results are broken down by type, so messages, images, videos, links, etc
<kenvandine> and you can filter by any of those types as well
<kenvandine> in 12.04 you'll be able to also filter by account and probably more
<kenvandine> the lens is brand new with gwibber 3.2 and ubuntu 11.10, so please help report bugs and make suggestions
<kenvandine> so that is the state of things today, in 11.10
<kenvandine> moving on...
<kenvandine> Plans for Gwibber 3.4 (Ubuntu 12.04)
<kenvandine>  * Multi-column view
<kenvandine>  * Google + (assuming we get an API)
<kenvandine>  * Live search (filters)
<kenvandine> this would be filtering the results in the gwibber client just like we do in the lens today
<kenvandine>  * Performance improvements
<kenvandine>     * further reduce memory usage
<kenvandine>     * speed up startup time
<kenvandine>  * Improved account management
<kenvandine>  * In-line viewing of more content (Videos, Images)
<kenvandine>  * Photo/Video uploads
<kenvandine>  *  Smooth scrolling
<kenvandine> one thing I am pretty unhappy with in 3.2 is the step wise scrolling, like we had in the previous client
<kenvandine> and the way it works makes the tiles jump around a bit when you scroll tiles that have comments or image previews in them
<kenvandine> we'll make that slick and smooth for 12.04
<kenvandine>  * User guide
<kenvandine>  * Lens: improve filter selection (including filter by accounts) and categorization
<kenvandine>  * Lens: clicking on a tile should raise the client and view the post
<kenvandine>  * and hopefully, if we can find a volunteer we would love to see someone do some gnome-shell integration
<kenvandine> so any volunteers... :)
<kenvandine> which i guess takes us to my final topic
<kenvandine> Do you want to help?
<kenvandine> We need developers, designers, bug triage and documentation writers.
<kenvandine> or example we have a great user guide the Vancouver loco wrote, however it needs to be updated to match the current version of Gwibber and converted to a format we can include in the help viewer.
<kenvandine> great is an understatement... the vancouver folks really created an amazing guide
<kenvandine> we would love to include it with gwibber
<kenvandine> We also want a new logo
<kenvandine> and help designing other various things, including how we can fit google + circles into gwibber
<kenvandine> the concept does fit to nicely in an aggregated, multi-service client
<kenvandine> but we really need to make it work, there is huge potential
<kenvandine> just a couple examples, but there are many ways folks can help
<kenvandine> If you are interested in helping in any way, please join us in #gwibber on Freenode.
<kenvandine> or grab a bug on launchpad and propose a branch!
<kenvandine> :)
<kenvandine> now we have plenty of time for questions
<kenvandine> for helping out, the gwibber service is all python and the client is vala
<ClassBot> W8KWA-Charles asked: What social networking site does qwibbler support best?
<kenvandine> twitter, facebook and identi.ca are all included in Ubuntu by default
<kenvandine> so those clearly get the most attention and I focus a lot of effort in keeping them working well
<kenvandine> status.net support is the same as identi.ca
<kenvandine> foursquare is also in really good shape right now
<kenvandine> there are also a couple of other services available that aren't maintained in gwibber, sohu and sina which are both very popular in china
<ClassBot> nitstorm asked: ââHow are certain applications like Lernid able to have direct twitter capability, are they using Gwibber somehow discreetly in the background? Also, how's it possible to make applications that are developed integrate into tweeting/facebook-updates/etc..etc., via Gwibber?
<kenvandine> we have libgwibber, which provides an API for using gwibber
<kenvandine> lernid uses it
<kenvandine> and software-center, if you notice when you rate an application
<kenvandine> you can share your rating
<kenvandine> even gives you a selector for choosing an account to post to or to post to all automatically
<kenvandine> the API also lets other applications embed stream content
<kenvandine> so for example, lernid could contain a pane that displays all the posts that match a hashtag
<kenvandine> like #ubuntuopenweek
<kenvandine> i would love to see more apps using it, if anyone has questions let me know
<kenvandine> or just ask in #gwibber
<kenvandine> we are constantly looking to improve the API
<ClassBot> oliverhr asked: How can I configure timeline refresh for twiter?
<kenvandine> in gwibber preferences, you can set the refresh interval
<kenvandine> anymore questions?
<kenvandine> ok, I guess that's it then!
<kenvandine> thanks everyone for you time, I hope you all enjoy Ubuntu 11.10
<ClassBot> nitstorm asked: Is there some other way to update status than go to Messaging menu and clicking "Update Status"? In < 11.10, we had a nice box integrated in the MeMenu to update status. Some way to re-enable that feature or something?
<kenvandine> unfortunately not, indicator-me was merged into the session indicator and the posting entry was dropped
<ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
<kenvandine> i am hoping to have a default key binding for it so you can raise it with the keyboard
<kenvandine> and am up for other suggestions as well
<kenvandine> someone could easily write an indicator that does just that :)
<kenvandine> using libgwibber
<ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/10/19/%23ubuntu-classroom.html
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat ||
#ubuntu-classroom 2011-10-20
<offerpook> how to edit ubuntu code?
<offerpook> pls help me
<offerpook> iwant to have a special ubuntu
<offerpook> :)
<Snicksie> offerpook, if you just want to change your look, ask in #ubuntu how to do that (appearance is something that will help you, check it out before you ask there ;) ). if you want to change the code of ubuntu itself (programming), try learning some programming languages, grab the code and change it how you like it. thats difficult though
<sebsebseb> hi
<fulcrum> lo
<jcastro> woo! welcome everyone
<jcastro> Bug Guru session in 1 hour!
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ubuntu Open Week - Current Session: How to Become a Bug Guru! - Instructors: hggdh
<jcastro> Woo, we'll get started in a minute
<jcastro> hggdh: about ready?
<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/10/20/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
<hggdh> jcastro: as reaqdy as I will ever be
<hggdh> hello. I am one of the Ubuntu Bug Squad/Bug Control admins
<hggdh> I will be a bit slower today, my notes for this class perished in a backup accident
<hggdh> (not a real bug, though, just an user error)
<hggdh> if you have any questions, please post them on the #ubuntu-classroom-chat prefixed by QUESTION: <- note it is upper cased
<hggdh> the question itself, of course, can be mixed case
<hggdh> OK
<hggdh> We at Ubuntu receive an amazing amount of bug reports; Launchpad (the program we use for -- among others -- bug reporting) is logging, right now, more than 850,000 bugs
<hggdh> those are *all* bugs on LP, Ubuntu or not. Ubuntu-specific  bugs are less, I would say around 700,000
<hggdh> of which ~70,000 are still open...
<hggdh> (for the record, we do not have 70,000 people analysing these bug reports)
<hggdh> so. Much more bugs than bug triagers. What to do?
<hggdh> first off: we can try to have bugs (more) correctly opened
<hggdh> this is important -- we spend a lot of time trying to figure out which version of Ubuntu is the reporter running, what package/program is this all about, etc
<hggdh> no counting the description of the problem -- "I did not work as I asked"
<hggdh> this causes a bit of triage work -- first making sense of the sentence above (not that difficult, but already predisposes the triager against), then having to ask the reporter "what did not work as you expected? What did you expect? What did happen?", etc, etc
<hggdh> given things like the above, and the sheer amount of new bugs every day (monitor the channel #ubuntu-bugs-announce to have an almost real-time view of bugs as they arrive), we now prefer that bugs are opened from the reporter's system
<hggdh> via 'ubuntu-bug' -- you run 'ubuntu-bug <package>', replacing '<package>' by the correct package (see below) or -- if you do not know the package, 'ubuntu'
<hggdh> this will collect a minimal set of data -- your Ubuntu version, the package version, and -- depending on the package -- a series of data relative to the package
<hggdh> and -- as a result -- we will not need to waste time asking VERY basic questions, like "what is your Ubuntu version?", etc
<hggdh> YOu can still directly open a bug on Launchpad; nevertheless, if you are not an expert on the issue, chances are you will forget to add some crucial tiny bit of data, and will make the bug work a bit more delayed
<hggdh> for finding the package: you can search by the program's name, using either apt-file, or apt-cache, or dpkg:
<hggdh> apt-file: must be manually installed (not a default install option); it keeps track of *all* packages, be them locally installed or not
<hggdh> apt-cache: (IDK if it is an auto-install) -- keeps track of all *installed* package contents
<hggdh> dpkg: can search the locally-installed package contents
<hggdh> of all the above I usually prefer apt-file (for searching), since it is not necessary that a bug will be about a package I have installed
<hggdh> for the record, you use 'apt-file search blahblah', or 'apt-cache search blahblah', or 'dpkg -S blahblah'; these programmes have many more options, and most of them are interesting for someone working on bugs
<hggdh> so, please, *always* Read the Man Page.
<Baldi> is there any difference between installed, and local installed packages i might have missed? thought it was the same, but itb
<hggdh> on what I am talking about, there is no difference -- installed == locally installed == (locally) installed
<hggdh> but there are a few thousands packages in the archives, and an Ubuntu install is usually between 700-1300 packages
<hggdh> or something like it
<hggdh> If you cannot find the package name for running ubuntu-bug, then open the bug against Ubuntu. This is not the preferred way -- we would rather have a correct package in the bug -- but it is better than directly using Launchpad
<hggdh> ubuntu-bug will collect some data, and THEN open a browser on launchpad, and ask you to enter details of the bug
<hggdh> please -- PLEASE -- do enter details on what is going on (or not going on, as the case may be). One common mistake we do is think that everybody else knows what *we* know. Nothing is farther from truth...
<hggdh> please explain your issue. Use your own words, do not try to make it more "technically correct" -- making it technically correct is *OUR* job. But do explain WHAT, WHY, HOW
<hggdh> WHAT happened, WHY it was unexpected, HOW you tried it
<hggdh> I understand that all you know is 'it did not work as I wanted/needed/expected'. But, at this point in time you know much more that we. If *we* do not understand the what, why, and how, there is little chance you will get a resolution
<hggdh> By the way, another thing we are very much insistent on: please be nice or, at least, neutral. We have a Code of Conduct, and we *do* abide by it.
<hggdh> Of course, most of the folks working on Ubuntu, be it bugs, or coding, or packaging, are _volunteers_. Antagonising a volunteer is usually not a good way to have *my* problem resolved...
<hggdh> aggressive behaviour/moods are very frown upon
<hggdh> another point of contention is the Meaning of Status and Importance
<hggdh> (which are much more discussed than the meaning of life, the universe, and everything)
<kamilnadeem> Xubuntu class?
<hggdh> for the real gory details, please look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/KnowledgeBase
<hggdh> and specifically https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Importance and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Status
<hggdh> but... INVALID means 'this is not a bug'
<hggdh> but it is rather generic, and quite strong
<hggdh> we close (a bug) invalid when the reporter recants ('very sorry, but I found that I was doing blahbleh instead of the correct yaddayadda'), or is asking for *support*, or is about a non-ubuntu package, or...
<hggdh> support is a very special case, and most prone to get end-users confused
<hggdh> a BUG is a *problem* in a package -- program crashing, does not start, does not accept (correct) input, fails to uninstall, etc
<hggdh> a SUPPORT request is a *question* about how to use a package/program/whatever
<hggdh> launchpad deals with BUGs, not support
<hggdh> for support... a marvelous site is http://askubuntu.com/
<hggdh> for the record, I usually go there if I have a doubt on how to get something done
<hggdh> and I have started providing some answers of my own; after all, if I use it to resolve my doubts, it is only fair to also answer about what I know
<ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
<hggdh> Finalising, we -- bug triagers and similar -- usually congregate at #ubuntu-bugs. If you have a question on *triaging* -- how-to, can it be set as triaged, etc --, this is the pace to go
<hggdh> and this is it.
<hggdh> Thank you very much, and you all have a nice day
<jcastro> ok, just about 8 minutes until the next class
<jcastro> so we'll take a break, smoke if you got em!
<pasti> Will that be the Xubuntu class?
<kirkland> pasti: no, Ubuntu Orchestra
<ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
<jcastro> pasti: xubuntu will be the one after
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ubuntu Open Week - Current Session: Ubuntu Orchestra -- Servers, Live and in Concert! - Instructors: kirkland
<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/10/20/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
<jcastro> ok kirkland, take it away!
<kirkland> howdy all!
<kirkland> this session is about Ubuntu Orchestra
<kirkland> which is (what I think to be) perhaps the most exciting feature in Ubuntu 11.10 on the Server side
<kirkland> you can think of Orchestra as *the* way of installing Ubuntu servers over the network
<kirkland> it's a collection of the best of open source packages
<kirkland> for provisioning, installing, logging, monitoring, and managing
<kirkland> physical systems installed with Ubuntu Server
<kirkland> in this session, i'll introduce you to the parts of Orchestra, and even demonstrate the bits I can
<kirkland> for demonstration, please ssh guest@ec2-107-22-49-46.compute-1.amazonaws.com
<kirkland> the password is 'guest'
 * kirkland waits for anyone else to show up there :-)
<kirkland> aha, someone else logged on :-)
<kirkland> okay, good
<kirkland> so I'll start by installing Orchestra, with 'sudo apt-get install ubuntu-orchestra-server'
<kirkland> that's going to take a minute
<kirkland> in the mean time, let's look at the different parts of Orchestra
<kirkland> first, and foremost, there's a provisioning server
<kirkland> the provisioning server is largely Cobbler (which is an excellent project from the Fedora team)
<kirkland> but we've added a few bits to surround cobbler
<kirkland> that makes it even more useful in Ubuntu environments
<kirkland> we also use the distro-info command to determine the list of currently supported ubuntu releases
<jcastro> .oO (you can find more info on cobbler here: https://fedorahosted.org/cobbler/ )
<kirkland> and every Sunday morning, Orchestra will go out and fetch the latest Ubuntu mini.iso's, and automatically import them into Cobbler
<kirkland> so that your Orchestra installation is always ready to install each of the Ubuntu releases
<kirkland> otherwise, you'd need to do this manually yourself, and frequently to keep up with changes
<kirkland> the provisioning server also contains a squid proxy
<kirkland> so that as network installations are performed, the vast majority of the binary data is cached locally
<kirkland> this ensures that subsequent installations happen very fast
<kirkland> note that you can also point Orchestra/Cobbler to your local mirror, if you have one
<kirkland> but even if you don't (mirrors take upwards of 500GB of disk, and lots of bandwidth to keep in sync)
<kirkland> you'll at least get the convenient benefit of squid cache
<kirkland> Orchestra also includes dnsmasq, which is configured at your option
<kirkland> Orchestra/Cobbler can use dnsmasq to manage your dhcp and dns, which allows for some pretty cool features
<kirkland> but doesn't necessarily fit into everyone's network infrastructure
<kirkland> so we leave it as optional
<kirkland> however
<kirkland> if you want to use Juju with Orchestra (which, I'm not going to get into in this session), you MUST enable Orchestra to manage dhcp+dns with dnsmasq
<kirkland> okay, so that's the Provisioning Server
<kirkland> Orchestra also includes a Logging Server
<kirkland> this is really, really cool!
<kirkland> the Orchestra server is a rsyslog remote logging server for all of its installed clients
<kirkland> when performing remote, headless installations, you can watch the installation proceed by tailing the syslog on the Orchestra Logging server
<kirkland> as part of the installation, Orchestra exchanges SSL keys with the machine being installed, so that this logging happens over a secure SSL encrypted connection (after installation)
<kirkland> (note that the installation logs are logged in the clear, over UDP, which I think is a limitation of the debian-installation and busybox)
<kirkland> beyond the Logging Server, Orchestra also includes a Monitoring Server, which, for now, is just Nagios
<kirkland> the Nagios CGI web front end and aggregate server is installed on the Orchestra Server, and nagios clients are installed on each installed machine
<kirkland> at UDS in Orlando, we're going to revisit this, and consider some other monitor options in addition, like collectd, munin, and ganglia
<kirkland> now, the Orchestra-installed clients themselves
<kirkland> are a little more than your basic Ubuntu server
<kirkland> we've made a few opinionated decisions with Orchestra to really get these machines working well, locked in tight step, with one another
<kirkland> all of the machines are running NTP and have their time sync'd
<kirkland> which is *very* important for the syslogging
<kirkland> they're all running an SSH server, and they have the Orchestra server's keys installed on them
<kirkland> all of their /etc configuration directories are managed by etckeeper
<kirkland> which means that /etc is under bzr revision control, and gets committed any time dpkg or the administrator makes a configuration change
<kirkland> this *really* helps manage configurations over time (take a look at etckeeper, if you're not already using it!)
<kirkland> all of the clients run cloud-init (like Ubuntu systems in EC2)
<kirkland> even though these are physical machines, they can run cloud-init too
<kirkland> though we don't use metadata
<kirkland> Juju uses this to pass information to the machine via the preseed
<kirkland> <jcastro> QUESTION: Is orchestra a 11.10+ only feature, or is there a PPA for my older 10.04 servers?
<kirkland> jcastro: there is an orchestra ppa, ppa:orchestra/ppa
<kirkland> jcastro: where the packages are automatically built and uploaded as part of my release-build and release scripts in the bikeshed package
<kirkland> jcastro: but note that those PPA packages are completely untested
<kirkland> jcastro: we'll accept and fix bugs in those, as possible
<kirkland> jcastro: but those PPA packages are on a best-effort basis, no more
<kirkland> back to the client, it also installs the rsyslog daemon as well
<kirkland> okay, so that's the basics ...
<kirkland> our installation is done on our machine in the cloud
<kirkland> if you're late joining, feel free to join us with ssh guest@ec2-107-22-49-46.compute-1.amazonaws.com
<kirkland> password=guest
<kirkland> let's take a look at a couple of things
<kirkland> first, the configuration in /etc/orchestra
<kirkland> there's a configuration for the ISOs you want orchestra to automatically import
<kirkland> we use a decent set of defaults, i think
<kirkland> but you can override those here
<kirkland> for instance, if you just want to import Oneiric and Lucid 64-bit iso's, you can do that here
<kirkland> we also default the locale of each machine to en_US
<kirkland> for obvious reasons, you might like to change that :-)_
<kirkland> we also have a set of settings in /usr/share/orchestra
<kirkland> these are not in /etc as we can't really support people changing them
<kirkland> part of what we're doing in Orchestra is getting things working well together
<kirkland> and that means we have to require a few configurations
<kirkland> next, let's look at the preseed files
<kirkland> which are the instructions for the machines that Orchestra installs
<kirkland> the goal here is to install physical machines
<kirkland> in a headless, remote manner
<kirkland> which means we must answer *all* installation questions ahead of time
<kirkland> and we do that with preseed files
<kirkland> let's look at /var/lib/orchestra/kickstarts/orchestra.preseed
<kirkland> these are the base templates for those installations
<kirkland> Cobbler provides an *awesome* mechanism for customizing these, actually
<kirkland> and we'll look at the cobbler interface here shortly
<kirkland> but this is our Orchestra "distro default" preseed
<kirkland> something that we've tested the heck out of, and *know* works well
<kirkland> toward the bottom of that file
<kirkland> you should see some $SNIPPET()'s
<kirkland> this is another cobbler feature we're leveraging here
<kirkland> these are basically #include's that bring in installation instructions from elsewhere
<kirkland> so cobbler ...
<kirkland> cobbler is *awesome*
<kirkland> when we first started working on the Orchestra project, we evaluated several different network installation mechanisms
<kirkland> such as cobbler, fai, uec-provisioning, etc.
<kirkland> we also considered writing our own
<kirkland> however, all of us that looked at Cobbler in depth were very impressed with the possibilities
<kirkland> most importantly, it had 3 things we wanted
<kirkland>  1) a command line interface (ie, the cobbler command -- see the manpage at http://manpg.es/cobbler)
<kirkland>  2) a web interface (we're going to look at that in a minute)
<kirkland>  3) MOST IMPORTANTLY, it has a python API
<kirkland> (3) was the real kicker for us!
<kirkland> using the Python API, we can now tie Cobbler (and ultimately Orchestra) to lots of other interesting projects
<kirkland> like Juju
<kirkland> and Landscape
<kirkland> sudo cobbler distro list
<kirkland> this shows the list of distros imported into cobbler
<kirkland> remember that "automatic" part?
<kirkland> here's how you can see that it happened!
<kirkland> anyway, we could spend hours playing with the cobbler command
<kirkland> check the manpage, and you'll see that you can list, add, edit, remove lots of configuration entries
<kirkland> at this point, though, let's take a look at the web interface!
<kirkland> so i'm going to give you all the URL and the cobbler user's password
<kirkland> and trust that you don't do destructive things to the database :-)
<kirkland> one second ...
<kirkland> i need to ec2-authorize this machine
<kirkland> hang on, sorry, juju issues here
<kirkland> okay, gonna need to come back to this one :-)
<kirkland> i'm starting a second orchestra instance in the background
<kirkland> turns out cobbler_web and ajaxterm conflict on the web interface :-)
<kirkland> too much going on with this system
<kirkland> i'll pause here for questions...before moving on
<kirkland> <jcastro> nealmcb: yeah I have a cobbled together box that does most of this
<kirkland> jcastro: right!
<kirkland> jcastro: that's kind of what we're trying to solve, at a distro level
<kirkland> I'm betting many, many Ubuntu admins out there have hacked together something like this
<kirkland> it's kinda fun to setup a pxe + tftp + mirror server, and do some network installs
<kirkland> maybe the FIRST time :-)
<kirkland> but once you have to do it more than once
<kirkland> or, maybe you have to do it for a HUGE network
<kirkland> that's what we're trying to help you with, in Orchestra
<kirkland> <jcastro> QUESTION: How can I add other distros to orchestra/cobbler? Like if I wanted to try a Fedora or SUSE
<kirkland> jcastro: excellent question
<kirkland> cobbler works with lots of distros
<kirkland> in fact, it was pretty broken with Debian/Ubuntu, until we started working with the upstream project
<kirkland> within Orchestra, we don't auto import other distros, but it's pretty easy to do
<kirkland> when i get the web interface up, i'll show you
<kirkland> note that we're not testing those other distros at all, right now
<kirkland> and we're not shipping preseeds/kickstarts for them either
<kirkland> so it might take a little work on your part to get them working
<kirkland> but we've also not done anything to specifically disable or break those
<kirkland> in fact, if you or anyone else wants to contribute kickstarts, etc. to orchestra that makes it work better with other distros, i don't see any reason why we wouldn't take them
<kirkland> okay, almost done installing Orchestra sever #2 :-)
<kirkland> <mmclark> QUESTION: How does Orchestra compare with (or work with) tools like Chef?
<kirkland> mmclark: good question
<kirkland> mmclark: in the early version of Orchestra (the 1.x series is unsupported, but still in Launchpad), we actually relied quite heavily on puppet
<kirkland> mmclark: but as we saw the Juju project mature, we eventually switched everything over to Juju
<kirkland> but, if you have preseeds that set up your puppet or chef environment how you like
<kirkland> it would be trivial to add those as snippets to your base preseeds in Orchestra
<kirkland> and Orchestra would basically get you to the point where your system is installed and rebooted on the bare metal
<kirkland> and if you're an expert Chef/Puppet shop, your Chef/Puppet conf management would take over at that point
<kirkland> it's actually a pretty seemless transition
<kirkland> okay!
<kirkland> http://ec2-184-73-142-29.compute-1.amazonaws.com/cobbler_web
<kirkland> user and password are both cobbler
<kirkland> <nealmcb> QUESTION: You baked some configuration into /usr/share, including e.g. some apache stuff.  Are there places where this makes it hard for folks to install or customize their own services and apps?
<kirkland> nealmcb: to an extent, yes
<kirkland> nealmcb: this was a difficult balance we had to walk
<kirkland> nealmcb: something things (like the squid proxy), we absolutely require to be setup in a particular way, or else the tools just don't work
<kirkland> nealmcb: apache and squid, etc., are fundamentally "embedded" dependencies of what we're doing with Orchestra
<kirkland> nealmcb: file bugs, though, as you run into problems
<kirkland> nealmcb: and we'll do our best to get them worked back into /etc, if they're real issues
<kirkland> nealmcb: we're already using dotdee to fix a few issues like this
<kirkland> okay, let's look at this web interface!
<kirkland> this is the old-school Cobbler web ui, with a slick Ubuntu color scheme and CSS skin
<kirkland> click down the operations at the left side
<kirkland> Distros ->
<kirkland> and you should see the list of distros that it auto-imported
<kirkland> click on one of those distros
<kirkland> and you'll see some configuration that we auto populated
<kirkland> click Profiles ->
<ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
<kirkland> and again you'll see a bunch of auto generated profiles
<kirkland> (note that you can create your own here)
<kirkland> click a profile
<kirkland> and you'll see some more stuff you can edit
<kirkland> like the kernel parameters, for instance
<kirkland> click Systems ->
<kirkland> and you'll see this is empty here :-(
<kirkland> unfortunately, this is the MOST interesting of all the sections
<kirkland> as this is where the physical machines actually live
<kirkland> click Create New System and you should see what a machine looks like to cobbler
<kirkland> note that Daviey wrote an awesome utility called cobbler-enlist
<kirkland> which is now on the 11.10 Server ISO
<kirkland> which facilitates the autopopulation and injection into this row in the cobbler mysql datbase
<kirkland> this is where you would import the 1 or 10 or 10000 machines you want Orchestra to install
<kirkland> you can poke around here for a bit
<kirkland> i'll leave this instance running for a full hour
<kirkland> back to jcastro's question ....
<kirkland> jcastro: look at the Import DVD link on the left
<kirkland> jcastro: this is how you would use the web interface to import a new distro
<kirkland> note that *everything* you can do through the web ui you can *also* do from the command line and api
<kirkland> jcastro: so you'd first import the iso
<kirkland> jcastro: then you'd need to click Profile
<kirkland> jcastro: and create a Profile
<kirkland> jcastro: sorry,
<kirkland> jcastro: 1) import iso, 2) create distro, 3) create profile
<kirkland> jcastro: it's kind of a multi part, complicated process
<kirkland> jcastro: which is why we auto-import all of the ubuntu isos
<ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
<kirkland> QUESTION: <lunitik> I was under the impression that Ubuntu Orchestra 2.x still uses puppet extensively, as per deps in ubuntu-orchestra-common... just, juju automates throwing that out to your cloud env
<kirkland> lunitik: Orchestra 2.x doesn't use puppet at all implicitly;  though it's certainly possible for you to add a couple of puppet snippets and extend Orchestra to use puppet
<kirkland> lunitik: Juju was first written to talk to virtual machines and EC2/Cloud instances
<kirkland> lunitik: however, that team did some AWESOME work to get Juju talking to the Orchestra/Cobbler python API
<kirkland> lunitik: and now Juju can work against bare metal too
<kirkland> lunitik: so 'juju bootstrap' would ask Orchestra/Cobbler for a physical machine to bootstrap
<kirkland> lunitik: and 'juju deploy ...' asks Orchestra/Cobbler for a physical machine to deploy
<kirkland> lunitik: and in those cases, Orchestra triggers a new installation of a machine
<kirkland> lunitik: and ~5 minutes later, there's a brand new orchestra client that's waiting for instructions from Juju
<kirkland> ah, i forgot about powernap and powermanagement in Orchestra!
<kirkland> all Orchestra clients are running powernap in powersave mode by default (though you can tune that up or down)
<kirkland> and if you add powermanagement information into Cobbler (ie, WoL, impi, etc)
<kirkland> then Cobbler can automatically power on/off systems, as you (or Juju) asks for them to be deployed
<kirkland> <jcastro> QUESTION: Ok so one could just add enlisting in a kickstart rule or whatever and this would autopopulate?
<kirkland> jcastro: i don't understand the question
<kirkland> but I'm about out of time
<jcastro> I'll follow up later
<kirkland> feel free to talk to me or others in the #ubuntu-server channel
<kirkland> btw ...
<kirkland> roaksoax, spamaps, mathiaz, daviey, zul, smoser, and a bunch of others
<kirkland> did a lot of work on Orchestra
<kirkland> the whole Ubuntu-Server team kicks ass :-)
<kirkland> thanks all!
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ubuntu Open Week - Current Session: Xubuntu: What is that? - Instructors: charlie-tca
<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/10/20/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
<charlie-tca> I'm Charlie Kravetz, known as charlie-tca on irc and the mailing lists. I am Xubuntu Quality Assurance Lead and Xubuntu Project Lead.
<charlie-tca> Welcome to Open Week and Xubuntu
<charlie-tca> We are going to talk a bit about Xubuntu. We will take your questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat, and
<charlie-tca> will have a few minutes at the end to answer questions you hold on to. Feel free to ask questions at any time,
<charlie-tca> but please start them with QUESTION: so they easy to spot. For example,
<charlie-tca> QUESTION: What is Xubuntu?
<charlie-tca> The answer would then be
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu is Ubuntu with the Xfce desktop instead of Gnome and Unity. Xfce emphasizes conservation of system resources, which makes Xubuntu an excellent choice for any system, new or old.
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu is pronounced "zoo-boon-too" in english.
<charlie-tca> As a ubuntu derivative, Xubuntu maintains the same high standards and quality that Ubuntu has. Xubuntu is built and maintained by volunteer contributors and developers combined.
<charlie-tca> We still have bugs to track down and resolve, and we do help with the bugs in Ubuntu also. Testing is a combined effort, since the releases are on the same schedule.
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu is an ideal candidate for older hardware or low-end machines, thin-client networks, or those who would like to get more performance out of their hardware.
<charlie-tca> We produce both 32-bit and 64-bit versions of Xubuntu. The images may be burned to CD-r or copied to a USB drive for installation. There is no DVD version of Xubuntu.
<charlie-tca> And, since Xubuntu is a derivative of Ubuntu, we use the same repositories, and many of the same applications.
<charlie-tca> Those of us on the team really believe the stated minimums should be real! If we can't run what the minimums say, we question it.
<charlie-tca> Granted, we don't expect perfect performance from it, but the system should be usable.
<charlie-tca> Using Xubuntu, we expect the applications provided to be able to run, one at a time with the minimum hardware.
<charlie-tca> As the hardware increases, we would expect the performance to increase.
<charlie-tca> New users are often surprised to find that Xubuntu includes a number of gnome applications.
<charlie-tca> These are included simply because if an application works well, and is considered lightweight, it fits.
<charlie-tca> Any application can be included, and it does not matter if it starts with gnome, xfce, k or anything other letters.
<charlie-tca> The target audience for Xubuntu is users who are interested in having a modestly light weight, slim, fast desktop experience.
<charlie-tca> Those users should be able to retain the usability and functionality that is required to provide an easy to use desktop environment.
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu does not specifically focus on new users or users migrating from Windows; alternative distributions such as Ubuntu may be more appropriate for first time Linux users
<ClassBot> tomswartz07 asked: What influenced the choice to use XFCE over Opebbox or other lightweight DE's?
<charlie-tca> AXubuntu does not specifically focus on new users or users migrating from Windows; alternative distributions such as Ubuntu may be more appropriate for first time Linux users
<charlie-tca> An excellent question, tomswartz07
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu choose Xfce in 2006 because it was ready. It allowed Xubuntu to put together a quality desktop, which would give Ubuntu the top three desktop environments of the time (Gnome, KDE, Xfce)
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu does not specifically focus on new users or users migrating from Windows; alternative distributions such as Ubuntu may be more appropriate for first time Linux users
<charlie-tca> (especially first time Linux users who may be particularly at risk of experiencing difficulties due to lack of general experience).
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu does not exclusively target users with low, modest, or high powered machines but instead targets the entire spectrum with a strong focus on enabling lower end machines.
<ClassBot> oliverhr asked: Plans to migrate or support for Gtk3?
<charlie-tca> Thanks for asking, oliverhr
<charlie-tca> As Ubuntu has switched to GTK3 as much as possible, we also are integrating it.
<charlie-tca> However, Xfce does not plan to switch to Gtk3 for a while yet.
<charlie-tca> Current plans for Xfce 4.10 do not include migration to Gtk3 yet. They are instead looking at stability of Gtk2 for the next release.
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu will support Gtk3 applications in 11.10, and we will continue to use both Gtk2 and Gtk3. As a matter of fact, Greybird theme used by Xubuntu 11.10 is the only Xfce theme designed for both gtk2 and gtk3.
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu's extra responsiveness and speed, among other positive traits, can be appreciated by all users regardless of their hardware.
<charlie-tca> Are there other applications that could provide the same functionality? Most definitely.
<charlie-tca> We are using applications that are light in resources, and relatively easy to configure for most users.
<charlie-tca> You are welcome to use other applications if you desire.
<charlie-tca> As a matter of fact, we do routinely check our applictions as well as others to see if they still belong in Xubuntu.
<charlie-tca> A few of the more well known alternatives which could make the desktop a bit more lightweight are:
<charlie-tca> chromium - an open source browser - http://www.chromium.org/Home
<charlie-tca> claws-mail - a very nice mail client with many options - http://www.claws-mail.org/
<charlie-tca> gpicviewer - A Simple and Fast Image Viewer for X - http://lxde.sourceforge.net/gpicview/
<charlie-tca> geeqie - a lightweight Gtk+ based image viewer for Unix like operating systems. - http://geeqie.sourceforge.net/
<charlie-tca> midori - a lightweight browser in development by Xfce. For more information see http://software.twotoasts.de/index.php?/pages/midori_summary.html
<charlie-tca> Pino - a simple and fast X11 client for Twitter and Identi.ca - http://pino-app.appspot.com/
<charlie-tca> Any or all of these can be installed by the user. Please check the repositories before downloading or compiling applications.
<charlie-tca> Please note that the above applications are not presented as approved or recommended by myself or Xubuntu. There are given here as examples.
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu does not install these applications by default at this time. Why not?
<charlie-tca> Since we have limited developer resources available, we use applications maintained by Ubuntu that fit our needs. The application must also have a good user GUI, if possible.
<charlie-tca> The more complicated it is to configure the application for use, the less likely it will fit the requirement.
<charlie-tca> Some of the above are still in development, and are not yet released as a stable version. That, too, must be considered before including the application in a stable operating system.
<charlie-tca> Are there any other questions?
<charlie-tca> We will work very closely to the Ubuntu bugsquad when triaging, and follow the guidelines set in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToTriage.
<charlie-tca> A very important idea in triaging is that just because only one person had a failure, that does not make it invalid.
<charlie-tca> We work very close with upstream xfce, abiword and gnumeric bug teams to help resolve the bugs found. Once you report a bug, it goes through a process called bug triage.
<charlie-tca> Bug triage is simply the process of determining that there is a bug, how important is the bug to the overall scheme, and is there enough information for a developer to resolve the bug.
<charlie-tca> You will find that I often triage the Xfce, Abiword, and Gnumeric bugs for this reason. I am also the bugsquad contact for these bugs.
<charlie-tca> At this time, I would like to hit on some of the key points in Xubuntu 11.10, otherwise known as Oneiric Ocelot.
<charlie-tca> The contributors and developers of Xubuntu consider Xubuntu 11.10 to be one the best releases yet. Through their efforts, this distribution continues to improve steadily.
<charlie-tca> gThumb is now in the default Xubuntu 11.10 installation, to help users with image transformations and viewing. The Xubuntu developers wanted to insure an enjoyable, usable operating system. By including gThumb, along with Rhistretto, users have the ability to not only view all images and files, but also to perform minor editing of photos.
<charlie-tca> leafpad is the new default text editor(was mousepad), and now includes the ability to print.
<charlie-tca> For those users who prefer it, gedit also works quite nicely in Xubuntu 11.10.
<charlie-tca> pastebinit is now included in Xubuntu 11.10 intallations by default. If you need to use http://paste.ubuntu.com/, you can use pastebinit in terminals to paste directly without copying and pasting the data.
<ClassBot> TonyP asked: ââHow does the Xubuntu footprint compare with Ubuntu.  I have an old EEEPC with a 4GB SSD and it is a struggle to update it due to insufficient space. Would Xubuntu be a better choice?
<charlie-tca> Thank you for asking, TonyP
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu uses about 30% fewer resources than Ubuntu. Where Ubuntu will require about 4 GB for the installation, using a Xubuntu alternate cd to install, it will use as little as 2GB.
<charlie-tca> We also can use less ram, but it will affect performance.
<charlie-tca> Of course, all numbers do depend on what you add to the basic installation,.
<charlie-tca> TonyP: I could suggest adding a USB pendrive to help with the space. Plugging in a 4 or 8 gb drive and using it for /home or even /tmp could alleviate that issue.
<charlie-tca> LightDM is the new application that manages logins in Xubuntu 11.10.
<charlie-tca> Onboard (the onscreen keyboard) is now included in the default Xubuntu menus, under Accessories. For those who require an onscreen keyboard, this will be much easier to access using only a mouse or touchpad.
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu will continue to use Synaptic Package Manager, yet provides the Ubuntu Software Center for those who prefer it.
<charlie-tca> Thunderbird is a lightweight mail/news/RSS client. It fits well with the fewer resources desired for Xubuntu, yet remains an easy to configure application for the new user.
<charlie-tca> The Ubuntu Font Family  is available for your use and enjoyment. It is not, however, the default fonts in Xubuntu.
<ClassBot> TonyP asked: ââWhy the alternate CD?
<charlie-tca> TonyP: because of the GUI installer used by the desktop cd, it requires more memory and drive space to complete it'
<charlie-tca> its installation. The alternate cd uses a text based installer instead of a point and click installer.
<charlie-tca> That allows it to complete the install with fewer resources.
<ClassBot> chute asked: Will all ubuntu applications run on xubuntu?
<charlie-tca> If the application is in Ubuntu repositories, it should work on Xubuntu. It may need more resources than we have installed by default, however.
<charlie-tca> Example:  To install gedit requires about 5 other things.
<charlie-tca> To install Evolution requires the majority of gnome to install
<charlie-tca> Okay! If there are no other questions, let's take a look at where Xubuntu is heading.
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu does use the Ubuntu Release Schedules.
<charlie-tca> The next release will be Precise Pangolin. Will there be major changes for Precise Pangolin? I really do not know at this time.
<ClassBot> oliverhr asked: How Xubuntu is compared against Lubuntu on performance stuff?
<charlie-tca> Lubuntu is the winner in lightweight Ubuntu flavors! There is a definite place for them among the others.
<charlie-tca> As a general rule, Lubuntu is about 30% lighter than Xubuntu in terms of memory and drive space required.
<charlie-tca> It is an excellent choice for your older computers that struggle when using Ubuntu or Xubuntu.
<charlie-tca> Will Precise see Xfce 4.10? Only time will tell. Xfce developers have not completed their work at this time, and there is not a good release date yet.
<charlie-tca> If it is released in time, it will definitely be included in the next version of Xubuntu.
<charlie-tca> We owe a great deal of Xubuntu's success to the Ubuntu teamwork. Without Ubuntu leading the way, Xubuntu would not be where it is today.
<ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
<charlie-tca> Our volunteers are very passionate about Xubuntu.
<charlie-tca> They spend considerable time working to create the best possible Operating System they can, and the results do reflect that.
<charlie-tca> Its helps that the Ubuntu base is so awesome to work with in the first place, too.
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu Precise is going to be an exciting release to be a part of.
<charlie-tca> Xfce 4.10 is going to include much more accessibility related stuff, too.
<charlie-tca> How and where to get involved with Xubuntu?
<charlie-tca> Getting started with Xubuntu is easy and fun! For the average user, you can get help and support through either #xubuntu on Freenode or the xubuntu users mailing list at https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-users. We're a friendly bunch and enjoy helping folks :-)
<charlie-tca> Please don't enter #xubuntu expecting a lot of conversations happening.
<charlie-tca> We are usually monitoring the channel, but we are not as busy as #ubuntu, and will not be constantly chatting there.
<ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
<charlie-tca> We are holding an election this month, October 23 at 22:00 UTC in #xubuntu-devel, to elect the next Project Lead. This person has overall responsibility for each release. There are two nominees, myself and Pasi Lallinaho (known as knome on IRC).
<charlie-tca> All Xubuntu users registered in https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-users are invited to attend the meeting and vote for the project leader.
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu comes ready to use on any equipment. It gives excellent performance with no loss of applications.
<charlie-tca> We welcome all new users to Xubuntu!
<charlie-tca> As part of one of the best, fastest growing distributions available, we welcome anyone who would like to assist in development, testing, and bug triage!
<charlie-tca> Even if you just want to use Xubuntu, feel free to drop into #xubuntu and say hello.
<ClassBot> oliverhr asked: What language for development you recommend for writting apps for xubuntu ? I been playing arouund with vala.
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ubuntu Open Week - Current Session: Canonical and Community - Instructors: rickspencer3
<charlie-tca> Thank you all for being here.
<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/10/20/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
<rickspencer3> hello world
<rickspencer3> print 'hello world'
<rickspencer3> jcastro, hello?
<jcastro> Hi!
<jcastro> ok welcome back everyone
<jcastro> now we have Rick Spencer who will be doing a Q+A
<jcastro> Rick can you introduce yourself, where you're from, and what you do?
<rickspencer3> HI
<rickspencer3> my job title is "Director, Ubuntu Engineering"
<rickspencer3> that means that I work for Canonical
<rickspencer3> and my job is to manage Canonical's engineering contributions to the Ubuntu project
<rickspencer3> so, all he engineering managers report to me
<rickspencer3> as well as jono (Community Manager) and skaet (the release manager)
<jcastro> ok
<jcastro> so should we start with the questions?
<rickspencer3> jcastro, sure
<rickspencer3> akgraner asked e to come and answer questions about canonical and community partnership
<rickspencer3> and other topics that might come up
<jcastro> ok everyone you can start asking questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat
<rickspencer3> I'm happy to discuss anything any time
 * rickspencer3 drums fingers
<ClassBot> jcastro asked: Mark mentioned the importance of quality in his blog about 12.04, can you go into some detail on how quality will be a focus for Precise and how teams will work together to meet this goal?
<rickspencer3> oh boy
<rickspencer3> this is a biiiig one
<rickspencer3> let me start by talking about what we did in 11.10
<rickspencer3> pgraner took over the QA Engineering Manager role right around when we started Oneiric
<rickspencer3> he quickly implemented some important changes
<rickspencer3> specifically, he set up a hardware lab where we could run Ubuntu through automated tests each and every day
<rickspencer3> setting up the lab, setting up Jenkins to run the tests, working with Jenkins and Lava to report the results
<rickspencer3> deploying the tests to the lab, etc...
<rickspencer3> this all took a lot of work
<rickspencer3> in some areas we had good tests in place
<rickspencer3> for example, ev is the main author of Ubiquity, the installer, and he had written lots of tests
<rickspencer3> so, in 11.10, we found we ran into fewer installer issues than previously releases
<rickspencer3> so, now we have 11.10 as a foundation for 12.04
<rickspencer3> in 12.04 we will continue this work in a few ways
<rickspencer3> first, all canonical code that is bound for Ubuntu will come with a set of tests to catch regressions *before* they hit Ubuntu
<rickspencer3> we will be hiring a new person on the Community team to support the literally hundreds of community members who are active in assisting with testing
<rickspencer3> our goal will be to make 12.04 usable every day of the cycle
<rickspencer3> so we can develop quickly, and end up with a better quality release
<rickspencer3> we'll also be having a small set of engineers focused exclusively on quality issues in the archives themselves
<rickspencer3> so, between these efforts, I expect we should see a measurable improvement in the quality of the release
<rickspencer3> which is important because this is probably the #1 thing that people tell me they want to see in the next release
<rickspencer3> *phew*
<rickspencer3> a lot of work there
<ClassBot> zyga asked: how is lava used in Ubuntu?
<rickspencer3> from my point of view, lava is a test reporting framework developed by Linaro
<rickspencer3> they way it works is that it has a Python library that lets you take the output of tests, and put it into a standardized format
<rickspencer3> you can then write views based on that format, and generate web pages with whatever view you want
<rickspencer3> I don't think we currently have any such views set up, but we are working with the Linaro team to create them when everything is ready
<ClassBot> jcastro asked: What's your favorite feature in 11.10, and do you have a specific thing you're looking forward to in 12.04?
<rickspencer3> that's a bit tough for me to answer
<rickspencer3> I think my favorite thing might be juju
<rickspencer3> and I'm not just saying that to make jcastro happy
<rickspencer3> ;)
<jcastro> :)
<rickspencer3> I like it because it takes very complex things, and makes them accessible for daily usage
<rickspencer3> it's just a joy for me to be able to deploy and link up things like mysql and rails in a real public cloud with a few simple commands
<rickspencer3> these are things I know I can do, but I never want to because it is so painful
<rickspencer3> also, it means that I can develop a web site in the same environment that I will deploy into
<rickspencer3> that has significant benefits for me as a developer
<rickspencer3> on the client ... it's too hard to say
<rickspencer3> I guess I love the keyboard friendliness of Unity
<ClassBot> jcastro asked: Can you talk a bit on how you see the relationship between Canonical and the community evolving?
<rickspencer3> wow, that is open ended
<rickspencer3> I'll take a whack
<rickspencer3> Ubuntu is first and foremost an open source community distro
<rickspencer3> that has a strong corporate backer
<rickspencer3> when I started using Ubuntu, I wanted to be part of the community for a few reasons
<rickspencer3> the CoC made it a nice place to be, for example
<rickspencer3> but a more fundamental thing was Canonical was there to do some of the things that only a company could do
<rickspencer3> negotiate with OEMs, for example
<rickspencer3> this mean that my contributions would reach a lot of people
<rickspencer3> also, I could see that Canonical decided to really depend on the success of Ubuntu
<rickspencer3> so Ubuntu would be around for a while, reach a lot of people
<rickspencer3> so my contributions would be enduring
<rickspencer3> I don't think this fundamental dynamic has changed
<rickspencer3> so, where does it evolve from here?
 * rickspencer3 thinks
<rickspencer3> I see a couple of things happening
<rickspencer3> one thing that is delightful, is that there are a lot of new people contributing in new and different ways
<rickspencer3> many of them non-technical
<rickspencer3> for example, there were at least 2 very slick promotional campaigns about 11.10 release that were totally community contributed
<rickspencer3> I think Canonical will have to adjust it's approach to community support a bit to figure how to best enable these new kinds of contributors
<rickspencer3> another thing that I see evolving is the impact of major contributions from Canonical to Ubuntu
<rickspencer3> Unity being the obvious example
<rickspencer3> when Canonical became such an important upstream to Ubuntu, it really changed the equation in weird ways
<rickspencer3> I don't know where this is going , tbh
<rickspencer3> but I don't think the fundamental dynamic really changed
<rickspencer3> we still have our governance structures in place
<rickspencer3> we still have the CoC
<rickspencer3> sorry, that was really a terribly rambling answer
<rickspencer3> let me move on ;)
<ClassBot> zyga asked: what is the best way to start learning about juju (assuming you don't have a cluster at home)
<rickspencer3> there is no way I am stealing jcastro's thunder on that one
<rickspencer3> fwiw, I used it against Amazon Web Services, but you can try it locally now too
<jcastro> zyga: there was a juju session on monday, I'll send you the log links
<ClassBot> jcastro asked: How do you respond to criticisms that design decisions (specifically to Unity) are appear to be closed off from the rest of the community?
<rickspencer3> well ... I don't know what you mean by "closed off"
<rickspencer3> I guess there a few dimensions of this
<rickspencer3> first, Ubuntu has always had a strong value of letting the right people make final decisions
<rickspencer3> so, the kernel team makes decisions about the kernel
<rickspencer3> the desktop team chooses what's in the default desktop ISO
<rickspencer3> etc...
<rickspencer3> in the same way, the Unity team should be empowered to make their best decisions about what's in Unity
<rickspencer3> however, I suspect the real question may be "I don't like some design decisions in Unity, and no one listened to me"
<rickspencer3> I can say that designing something that will get zero criticisms is not really possible
<rickspencer3> also, in terms of contributions, Unity is quite open
<rickspencer3> They take lots of contributions from people, including changes to behavior when it makes sense
<ClassBot> zyga asked: what is the best way for ISVs to deliver packaged applications for many versions of ubuntu (like in our case starting with lucid onwards)
<rickspencer3> there is a sweet new website called developer.ubuntu.com
<rickspencer3> that should be the best way to get you started
<rickspencer3> there is no "one size fits all" answer, though
<rickspencer3> it really depends on if your project is gratis vs. paid, libre vs. proprietary
<rickspencer3> how the program works, what kind of program it is, etc...
<rickspencer3> jcastro, if there are no question, can I talk a bit about app development?
<ClassBot> zyga asked: followup, a free software project on a monthly release schedule, targeting ubuntu server, is developer.ubuntu.com the right place for that (our app is comprised of many source / binary packages)
<jcastro> sure, that would be quite important to go into detail with
<rickspencer3> developer.ubuntu.com is really aimed at desktop apps, actually
<rickspencer3> I'm not sure about hte details of your situation, if you want to pop me an email, I can get you hooked up with someone to discuss the details with
<rickspencer3> so, while waiting for questions, speaking of 12.04 ...
<rickspencer3> well, 11.10, I mean
<rickspencer3> I think 11.10 is a really solid platform for writing apps
<rickspencer3> by "app" I mean small tools solving small problems
<rickspencer3> I think this for a few reasons
<rickspencer3> 1. developer.ubuntu.com has tons of resources
<rickspencer3> you can get started even if you've never written an app before
<rickspencer3> 2. you can upload your apps via developer.ubuntu.com for free or paid
<rickspencer3> you can charge for them even if they are open source
<rickspencer3> this is really fun, and a great way to contribute to Ubuntu too
<rickspencer3> </advertisement>
<ClassBot> rickspencer3 asked: I have no real burning question right now. I was mostly curious about the choice of unity and why user's input was not taken into consideration. But I see now it's the Desktop Team's decision
<rickspencer3> I stole a question from the chat room ;)
<rickspencer3> I think this deserves a real answer
<rickspencer3> I don't want people to think that user's input was not taken into consideration
<rickspencer3> nothing regarding Ubuntu is ever decided in that manner
<rickspencer3> I have to stress how complicated decisions like this are
<rickspencer3> we faced a situation where:
<rickspencer3> 1. proprietary desktops were outpacing our innovation
<rickspencer3> 2. GNOME 2.x, our stallwart upstream, was going away
<rickspencer3> something had to be done
<rickspencer3> it was not possible to stick with the past
<rickspencer3> I've experienced many changes like this on software projects through the years
<rickspencer3> and no matter how necessary the change, there are always a significant number of users who want to keep the old system
<ClassBot> zyga asked: what major changes can we expect after the next LTS ships?
<rickspencer3> well, I hope that becomes clear at UDS
<rickspencer3> I have a few things on my list that I would like to see
<rickspencer3> I'd like to see some attention to what I call the "bread and butter" office use case
<rickspencer3> someone should be able to plug a laptop into a doc or external monitor, and have something sensible happen
<rickspencer3> they should be able to unplug the laptop, go to a meeting, plug into a projector, run the meeting, go back to their desk, plug in the monitor again
<rickspencer3> I already mentioned the testing that we are planning
<ClassBot> zyga asked: will there be any web-application integration in 12.04? (like adding a web app to the sidebar, quicklist integration, messaging menu, etc?)
<rickspencer3> I honestly do not know what is in the works for that
<rickspencer3> it sounds like a good addition though
<rickspencer3> I've actually started wrapping up websites that I like in gtkwebkit views so that I can get some of these benefits
<rickspencer3> so I know it's doable
<ClassBot> genii-around asked: Are there any plans for a deb-delta type system of updates?
<rickspencer3> you know, I've seen this discussed at every UDS, but never seen it come to pass
<rickspencer3> I think you are talking about a system where only the diff between the local package and the package in the repo is downloaded
<rickspencer3> sorta like an rsynch
<rickspencer3> resulting in much less downloading with each update
<rickspencer3> I don't think Canonical is going to buid such a thing n 12.04, but if someone else contributed that, I am certain it would be embraced
<jcastro> You can follow along in the blueprint: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-o-debdelta
<rickspencer3> lookit that
<ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
<rickspencer3> so, if there are no more questions for now ...
<rickspencer3> I'd like to talk a bit about the loco community around here
<rickspencer3> where "here" is Toulouse in SW France
<rickspencer3> one of the weird things about working on a project like Ubuntu, is that you work in your own house
<rickspencer3> there are people on the Ubuntu Engineering team based in Portland, OR, all the way to Sydney
<rickspencer3> which means, you don't really get tied down to a particular place
<rickspencer3> so, my wife and I decided that we would move from Seattle to France for a year or so
<rickspencer3> when I got here, the local Ubuntu community as just soooo supportive
<rickspencer3> huats, the head of the loco runs an open source based company
<rickspencer3> they let me use their office when I want
<rickspencer3> they help me when I don't understand something that I got in the mail
<rickspencer3> they offer me rides, introduce me to people
<rickspencer3> it really drove home what "Ubuntu" and the community was all about
<rickspencer3> French Loco ftw!
<ClassBot> jcastro asked: About developer.ubuntu.com, does it support out-of-band updates for app authors? So can I update to a new version of my app and submit it outside of the normal freeze processes in the distro?
<rickspencer3> jcastro, as if you don't know ;)
<jcastro> actually I don't know this one!
<rickspencer3> there are several ways to get an app into Ubuntu
<rickspencer3> lol
<rickspencer3> ok, fair enough
<ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
<rickspencer3> so, you can put an app in debian, and it will likely get synced into Ubuntu
<rickspencer3> you can package it and have a motu upload it to Universe
<rickspencer3> you can even get it into main
<rickspencer3> however, an app needs to be ready for the repos before that version of Ubuntu ships ... and it's hard to change once it's in there
<rickspencer3> this is great if you want to provide your users with a stable experience, and have your app available on day one of a release
<rickspencer3> myapps provides a different channel
<rickspencer3> it's for apps written for a release *after* that version of Ubuntu was released
<rickspencer3> so, I could write an app tomorrow that works for 11.10, and get it into 11.10
<rickspencer3> then a month later I could update it, and get changes in as well
<rickspencer3> of course, if you use Quickly to write your app, everything is that much easier
<rickspencer3> well ...
<rickspencer3> I guess it's winding down
<rickspencer3> it's late here, so I'll log off, but ...
<rickspencer3> I want everyone to know that it's important to me that people feel they can ask me questions, raise concerns, get help, etc... from me at any time
<rickspencer3> so I really appreciate the opportunity to do these Q+As
<jcastro> \o/ thanks Rick!
<jcastro> ok everyone, that wraps up our sessions for the day
<jcastro> join us tomorrow at 1400UTC for more sessions
<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/10/20/%23ubuntu-classroom.html
<jcastro> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat ||
<collisonsystm> How much have i missed?
#ubuntu-classroom 2011-10-21
<sebsebseb> hi
<Kvrmurthy> #ubuntu
<Kvrmurthy> join #ubuntu
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ubuntu Open Week - Current Session: How to use Ask Ubuntu effectively - Instructors: marcoceppi
<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/10/21/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
<marcoceppi> Salutations everyone!
<marcoceppi> I'm Marco Ceppi, a community elected moderator of Ask Ubuntu (http://askubuntu.com) and today I'll outlining different, less known ways, to get the most out of Ask Ubuntu
<marcoceppi> Ask Ubuntu is really unlike most other community support sites available today, because it operates on a very narrow scope. Ask Questions, Get Answers. In that respect items on the site, unlike in IRC or Forums, are not threaded. Instead they're sorted by votes - which is probably the biggest change for anyone who is used to a linear chat like forums and IRC
<marcoceppi> So I'm going to jump around between different topics, if you have any questions feel free to ask them in the question room
<marcoceppi> So, finding solutions to a problem you have. If you land on the site looking for an answer to a question there are a few ways to get solutions. Primarily via searching - at the top of the site there's a search bar for entering in search terms.
<marcoceppi> Typically typing the question in that bar will yield results but wadding through the results can be tedious!
<marcoceppi> The search offers different methods to help narrow the scope of your search. Say you want to figure out how to configure Unity
<marcoceppi> You could type "How do I configure Unity?" and about 5 results down you'll find your answer. However, you could narrow the scope by searching via taxonomy. So a search for "configure [unity]" will match the word configure within the questions tagged unity
<marcoceppi> As a result, the first solution is the one you're looking for. You can wrap any keyword in brackets [] to search the site for that specific tag.
<marcoceppi> Tags are used on the site to organize what subjects the content of the question pertain to.
<marcoceppi> Each question has at least one tag with a maximum of 5
<marcoceppi> Typically, if you're asking a question about a specific version of Ubuntu - say you have a question about Unity in 11.10 you would likely tag that question with unity and 11.10 - this helps not only sort the content of the site, but lets people know exactly what they're dealing with when reviewing your question!
<marcoceppi> Another method for finding a solution to your question, is to simply ask it.
<marcoceppi> At the top of the site there's an "Ask Question" button, which will allow you to type the subject, or title, of your question, a body, and tag the question.
<marcoceppi> For an effective question, try to make the title as to the point as possible. If your internet isn't working, don't enter something like "Internet borked :(" as there isn't much that I can derive from that question in that title.
<marcoceppi> Try to include a brief summary instead: "Wireless Brodcom BCM43xx not connecting"
<marcoceppi> That way, it'll attract people who actually understand that issue, as opposed to it being potentially glazed over because the title it too vague.
<marcoceppi> You'll also want to avoid adding things like "on Ubuntu", or "on 10.04" in the title. We already know it's with Ubuntu! You're on Ask Ubuntu :D Likewise, if it is actually something version specific you can use the tags to help convey that information as it will help the taxonomy and for users searching.
<marcoceppi> After you type in your title the site will automatically give you a list of potential other questions that have been asked that match that criteria.
<marcoceppi> So in the event that you type a fruitful title, you may find that the question has already been asked and can easily click through the link to get to the solution! Just as well, as you start to type the body of the question potential question matches will appear on the right - as it performs a full search against keywords in the body and the title.
<marcoceppi> After you've entered a title, body, tags, and ensured your question hasn't been asked anywhere else - you can submit your question to the site
<marcoceppi> I'm going to go ahead and jump over to a few ways the site works differently than say other support outlets. When you're using the site we try to avoid too much pointless discussion that doesn't really contribute to the end goal of solving the question/problem at hand.
<marcoceppi> So you won't see many people replying "Thanks" or "this worked" or editing the question to say "solved". Instead to show your support of a solution, or question, you can use the arrows to vote an answer up or down.
<marcoceppi> For instance, if you come across a question that has yet to be answered and like, or agree, or are experiencing that same issue. You can use the Up Arrow to vote that question up
<marcoceppi> Likewise, if there is a solution on that question that works for you - you can use the up arrows to communicate to everyone "This works for me!", the more upvotes an answer has the higher up the list of answers it moves.
<marcoceppi> That way, the first answer you see on a question isn't necessarily the first person to answer, but instead the one that has the most upvotes by other users like you who have either tested or agree it addresses the question
<marcoceppi> In the event something doesn't work, or is a solution you do not agree with you can always down vote that answer.
<marcoceppi> That being said, it's encouraged that if you do downvote an answer, you leave a comment on that answer to explain why it was downvoted, and what the user could do to improve it.
<marcoceppi> Finally, if you are the person who asked this question - and the solution works for you - you can use the "Accept Answer" button to show that this answer is the best provided and works for you.
<marcoceppi> Since I've been going on about voting, it's about time I explain what voting does for users.
<marcoceppi> On Ask Ubuntu a user gain, or loses, reputation based on a number of things - votes are one of them.
<marcoceppi> Reputation is a lot like Karma on Launchpad only you gain it by using the site and having users up/down vote your content.
<marcoceppi> Okay, hold that thought about reputation
<marcoceppi> Answering a question with the same answer over and over again doesn't to much help to the question or the quality of that question.
<marcoceppi> What happens from time to time, is someone may beat you to "the punch" with an answer. The site will load a banner - as you're answering - which warns you "HEY! Someone has just posted an answer - want to see it?"
<marcoceppi> That'll show you what was answered and you can determine if your answer is a duplicate.
<marcoceppi> It's always hard to figure out "Should I post my answer, they are so similar"
<marcoceppi> Ultimately it's up to you if you want to post your answer or not. If your answer contains far more quality (quality is measured by the length of detail in the answer). So if someone posts a one line answer like "Oh just edit the xorg file" that really is not a model of quality for an answer. If you can provide a greater answer with more quality then I say go for it. People will usually gravitate a
<marcoceppi> nd upvote the answer with higher quality.
<marcoceppi> That being said, if the answer is a generally good one, which just needs a few modifications or additions. It is more worthwhile to simply edit those details in to the answer rather than reposting 98% of the same thing with some changes.
<marcoceppi> I'll jump back into editing and how much fun that can be after I pick up on what I was saying about rep.
<marcoceppi> Reputation is a lot like Karma in Launchpad, you get it when people upvote your questions and answers, you lose some when people downvote your questions and answers.
<marcoceppi> You can also gain reputation in a few other manners - one such way is via a Bounty
<marcoceppi> (as pointed out, one of the primary differences is Reputation never expires)
<marcoceppi> Bounties are a way to get a little extra attention to a question. Especially if you have a vested interest in an answer. Anyone can place a bounty on a question and offer between 50 and 500 of your own reputation to anyone who can answer the question. In this sense reputation is almost like a currency where you can barter your reputation to the person who can provide the best solution to the answe
<marcoceppi> r.
<marcoceppi> This also makes the question a featured question: http://askubuntu.com/?tab=featured where it has it's own tab on the home page to highlight all the questions that have an open bounty.
<marcoceppi> Bounties say open for 7 days - once they expire and you haven't awarded it to anyone the reputation disappears. So it can sometimes be a gamble to bounty a question no one can answer - though the trade off is: The question gets more attention and has a higher chance of being answered!
<marcoceppi> So, you've gained all this reputation - now what?
<marcoceppi> Ask Ubuntu is shaped like a pyramid.
<marcoceppi> At the bottom of the pyramid is all the users who have come on the site - maybe just once - who got to the site via a search engine found the answer and left.
<marcoceppi> The next smaller level are those who have bothered to create an account, maybe ask a question or give a few answers. More or less they maybe come, hang out for a little, then leave for 8-10 months until they have another problem for solving.
<marcoceppi> So far, all of these users are great -they're what we run the site for - keeping an up-to-date repository of questions and valid solutions.
<marcoceppi> Next up, are the users who visit the site more frequently, stay longer and help by asking high quality questions and giving high quality answers. Voting up and down on good and bad posts and maybe even making a few edits on posts to help improve quality.
<marcoceppi> The more you vote, the more you edit, the more quality answers and questions you provide - the higher your reputation. The more reputation you gain the more tools Ask Ubuntu gives you. Things like editing without needing approval, voting to close questions, and a variety of other tools outlined : http://askubuntu.com/privileges
<marcoceppi> The higher your reputation, the higher up the pyramid you go, which in turn provides you more access and powers on the site
<marcoceppi> So, I've spoken a lot about editing, and I want to go over what that entails. Anyone, at anytime, can edit any question or answer on the site.
<marcoceppi> If you don't like this concept - Ask Ubuntu may not be the best place for you. However, it isn't just a limited reign of chaos with users editing in funny text.
<marcoceppi> All users with less than 2,000 reputation have to have their edits approved. The trade off is - if your edit is approved, the site awards your 2 points of reputation for having to wait for making something more awesome.
<marcoceppi> Furthermore, all edits on the site are tracked, similar to Wikipedia, in that who edited it, when they edited it, and what was edited is logged.
<ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
<marcoceppi> At anytime a revision can be rolled back. This helps ensure if something malicious or invalid gets past the site's review it can be reverted at anytime
<marcoceppi> I know I've gone over a lot of different things, and jumped around quite a bit, but to be honest the best way to experience the site is to signup and start browsing! http://askubuntu.com/users/login - since the site uses OpenID you can use your LP, Google, Ubuntu, or any other SSO/OpenID login to access the site.
<marcoceppi> Exploring is best, since it'll give you first hand experience with the above outlined items, and a chance to explore things unmentioned like earning badges, and other site mechanics
<marcoceppi> > QUESTION: Do we lose the +2 reputation if a approved edit is reverted?
<marcoceppi> Nope, invalid edits or reverted edits won't lose you reputation
<marcoceppi> If you have any questions about how the site works, you can visit our http://askubuntu.com/faq , our http://askubuntu.com/about , or ask a question about Ask Ubuntu itself on the "META" site http://meta.askubuntu.com/
<ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
<marcoceppi> Since there are five minutes, I'll take this time to briefly talk about a third place to communicate (the first two being comments and meta). Ask Ubuntu has it's own web based chat software that is persistent and works quite well (http://chat.askubuntu.com) feel free to join us after you've gained 50 reputation points in the various rooms/channels there
<marcoceppi> And, since I'm not in the web based chat I can't edit my previous line to state that it's 20 reputation to chat.
<marcoceppi> One of the many features of the web based chat allows you to edit, for a short duration of time, your previous messages
<marcoceppi> Fixing things like typeo's and misinformation.
<marcoceppi> Like placing an apostrophe when it wasn't needed.
<marcoceppi> Thanks for your time, I look forward to seeing everyone on the site and in chat at http://askubuntu.com !
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ubuntu Open Week - Current Session: Accessibility in Ubuntu - Instructors: charlie-tca
<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/10/21/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
<AlanBell> thanks marcoceppi
<charlie-tca> Thanks, marcoceppi
<charlie-tca> And now...
<charlie-tca> I am Charlie Kravetz, also known as charlie-tca, on IRC. I am going to talk about Accessibility in Ubuntu.
<charlie-tca> I do triage accessibility bugs.
<charlie-tca> I will have some help with this session from the great AlanBell
<AlanBell> :) and I will have help from the great charlie-tca
<charlie-tca> Please feel free to ask your questions as you thing of them
<charlie-tca> please start them with QUESTION: so they easy to spot. For example,
<charlie-tca> QUESTION: What is the goal of the Accessibility Team?
<charlie-tca> The answer would then be:
<charlie-tca> Our goal is to make Ubuntu and its derivatives usable by as many people as possible across ages, language and physical abilities. Ubuntu is about computing for everyone.
<charlie-tca> AlanBell, would you please kick this off?
<AlanBell> ok
<AlanBell> so as charlie-tca said, one of the fundamental prinicpals of the Ubuntu project is that it should be accessible to all
<AlanBell> the accessibility team works to meet that goal, but accessibility isn't something that can be added on afterwards, it needs to be part of what everyone does when contributing to Ubuntu
<AlanBell> so part of what we are doing in the team is educational
<AlanBell> helping others to add accessibility features and to not break accessibility that is already there!
<AlanBell> Accessibility covers a fairly wide range of totally separate features
<AlanBell> for example, a deaf person might like to see the screen flash when the system bell goes (this feature would be an example of something that used to work but has been broken recently)
<AlanBell> a blind person really could not care less about the screen flashing
<AlanBell> visually impaired users might want screen magnification and high contrast
<AlanBell> blind users might want an audio screen reader, or perhaps a screen reader with a refreshable brailled display output
<AlanBell> those with mobility issues might like to use one of several on-screen keyboards we have available
<AlanBell> the default on-screen keyboard we have is called onboard
<AlanBell> it has been themed to match the Ubuntu desktop and can be made available at the login screen and at the lock screen
<AlanBell> it is in the areas like the lock screen that we can really break things the most!
<AlanBell> the accessible install with the Orca screenreader is much better than it used to be
<AlanBell> this is now startable by pressing ctrl+s after the sound of the drums on the live CD
<AlanBell> everyone should give this a go!
<AlanBell> if you are sighted, bung in a live CD, turn off your monitor and try and get to the desktop, or install Ubuntu
<AlanBell> tricky, but I can now do it, in Maverick it was almost impossible
<AlanBell> Orca is the screen reader we have in Ubuntu, it speaks to you and tells you what is on screen
<AlanBell> if you are not sighted then a mouse is a pretty useless device (touchscreens can be useful though) so everything must be keyboard navigable
<AlanBell> in the installer the timezone selection is almost impossible to do with the keyboard for example
<AlanBell> however that doesn't stop you getting it installed, and if you have an internet connection during install it generally guesses your position in the world quite accurately
<AlanBell> whilst I think of what to say next, are there any particular areas of accessibility you would like us to cover?
<ClassBot> marcoceppi asked: How does Ubuntu fair with 508 Compliance? What, if anything, is being done to ensure applications in the software center conform to basic a11y?
<AlanBell> ok, so S508 is part of the US Rehabilitation act
<AlanBell> which isn't globally significant and personally I am not that familiar with it in the UK
<AlanBell> there are a number of accessibility compliance standards which can have relevance
<charlie-tca> If I may, With well over 10,000 applications in the Software Center, I don't it is possible for us to verify all of them as a11y compliant.
<AlanBell> to the various Ubuntu websites, and to the software in Ubuntu
<AlanBell> for the websites, you can certainly report bugs against them, and we have been involved in fixing some issues
<AlanBell> things like contrast, variable font sizes and navigation
<AlanBell> we were quite involved in the wiki redesign and although I still think the old wiki was better, we did manage to make the new one less bad than it would otherwise have been!
<AlanBell> there are a lot of applications in Ubuntu, many of which follow the Gnome/GTK guidelines and are 100% readable by Orca
<AlanBell> others are less so.
<AlanBell> there have been issues with Qt applications and embedded webkit, however these are all improving a lot
<AlanBell> in particular, Unity 2d is now fairly well readable (mostly, with important exceptions)
<ClassBot> TonyP asked: ââWhat languages is the screenreader available in?
<AlanBell> ok, few different parts to this
<AlanBell> it does read in multiple languages
<AlanBell> espeak, the default synthesiser does understand differnt language pronunciation rules
<AlanBell> so for example, Laura Czajkowski from the Loco council and now Community council has an interesting surname to pronounce
<AlanBell> it is actually of polish origin and is pronounced like the name of a famous composer
<AlanBell> at a terminal try this
<AlanBell> spd-say czajkowski
<AlanBell> it will say it wrong
<AlanBell> now try
<AlanBell> spd-say -l pl czajkowski
<AlanBell> it will apply the polish rules and get it right
<AlanBell> second part of this is translations
<AlanBell> orca can only read and pronounce what it is given, so the text needs to be translated correctly and I think the accessibility lables if present also need to be translated
<AlanBell> charlie-tca: want to take over for a bit?
<charlie-tca> Sure
<charlie-tca> Thank you for that great information, AlanBell
<charlie-tca> Am I correct in saying that Orca should work in the language the computer is using?
<charlie-tca> The Accessibility Team has created personas under the guidance of Penelope. This greatly aids the team in determining the direction it needs to head as well as what is needed.
<charlie-tca> The leaders of the Ubuntu Accessibility Team are Penelope Stowe (pendulum) and Luke Yelavich (TheMuso).
<charlie-tca> Through the guidance of these leaders, the team has grown and become a loud voice in the Ubuntu community
<charlie-tca> Accessibility focuses on the Ubuntu desktop, because Gnome has good accessibility features. Would we like to see that expanded? Of course we would!
<charlie-tca> We do work very closely with the developers of Vinux.
<charlie-tca> This is just one of the Ubuntu derivatives which focus on accessibility (or have some relevence)
<charlie-tca> Originally started to be optimised for blind and visually impaired users, at this time, possible accessiblity additions or changes are tested in Vinux first
<charlie-tca> for more information: http://vinux.org.uk/
<charlie-tca> we also have Qimo4kids, which mhall119 developed partially as a way to create something that would be easy for kids with developmental disabilities to use
<charlie-tca> For more information about Qimo: http://www.qimo4kids.com/
<charlie-tca> Qimo is a great learning system for any children.
<charlie-tca> We also have Xfce 4.10 under development, which promises to bring a11y to Xubuntu, natively.
<charlie-tca> The Xfce developers are stiving to insure the desktop environment is usable by all users, but they are a small group of volunteers.
<charlie-tca> Any questions on what we have covered up to this point?
<charlie-tca> In Ubuntu 11.10, a few things have been renamed to assist finding them.
<charlie-tca> I want to talk about the Assistive Technologies menu, which can be found in Universal Access.
<charlie-tca> This menu is where you can select your preferred accessibility programs and enable assistive technologies.
<charlie-tca> You can use this menu to specify things such as how long to accept as a keypress, how to prevent accidental double clicking, and how quickly to respond to key presses.
<charlie-tca> For someone such as myself, with fingers that only bend and work part time, this is a real help.
<charlie-tca> It's also useful for turning off and on sticky keys or specifying keystrokes to stand in for things you'd normally do with a mouse.
<charlie-tca> This is also the menu you use to specify which programs you want for an alternate keyboard or as a screen reader.
<charlie-tca> I turn on sticky keys on all my computers, since it means I don't have to work to hold down the shift, alt, ctrl keys. I can hit them, then hit the next key I need individually.
<charlie-tca> AlanBell talked about Orca. Orca can also be used in Xubuntu, with Xfce applications.
<charlie-tca> More information about Orca can be found at http://live.gnome.org/Orca
<charlie-tca> Let's take a look at magnification software also.
<charlie-tca> For the normal sighted person, they can be cumbersome to use, but for the visually impaired, they allow us to see the entire screen.
<charlie-tca> We can only grow the fonts so big, and the images are even harder to grow.
<charlie-tca> The best solution for users of magnification in Oneiric is the COmpiz eZoom plugin, however it does not have focus tracking support, and does not magnify any parts of Unity, i.e the panel, dash, and laucner all stay the same size, whilst the rest of the user's desktop is magnified.
<charlie-tca> This will receive a lot of development in Precise Pangolin, the next version of Ubuntu.
<charlie-tca> This application allows you to move the magnification screen around your desktop so as to give the total view.
<charlie-tca> While Onboard is installed by default in Ubuntu, another alternative is called Dasher.
<charlie-tca> Dasher, rather than having a keyboard set-up, is mouse controlled by hovering the mouse over the letters on the screen.
<charlie-tca> It also has predicitve text capabilities, which can be quite useful.
<charlie-tca> Dasher learns as you use it, and has quite a high learning curve. However, it does make very useful suggestions to complete words as you use it.
<charlie-tca> Using Dasher can result in up to about 35 words per minute, This for me relates to the average 39 words per minute I can type on the hardware keyboard.
<charlie-tca> If you run Dasher from the Applications menu in Ubuntu, it prints the characters in its own text editor and you can copy and paste into other programs.
<charlie-tca> From the command line you can run " dasher -a direct " which allows direct input into other programs.
<charlie-tca> There are also Windows and MacOS X versions of Dasher.
<charlie-tca> For more information (including video and a way to try without downloading) you can go to http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/dasher/ .
<ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
<charlie-tca> There are two programs in Ubuntu that help with alternate mouse controls.
<charlie-tca> MouseTrap allows headtracking using a webcam to control your mouse.
<charlie-tca> MouseTweaks works with the Assistive Technologies menu to give the ability to allow the mouse to "click" even if the mouse user can't actually make the motion that allows a mouse to click normally.
<charlie-tca> And now, let's see what there is Voice Recognition software
<charlie-tca> These are the applications that convert your spoken word to text on the screen.
<charlie-tca> Unfortunately, there are hacks and there are programs that sort of work, but there aren't great results for voice recognition in Ubuntu.
<charlie-tca> The only voice recognition software in the Software Center is Julius.
<charlie-tca> Julius was originally developed in Japanese and is being ported to English.
<AlanBell> there is a series of things called CMU sphynx as well
<ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
<AlanBell> mostly development libraries without much of a front end
<charlie-tca> Unfortunately, as julius is not finished software, the documentation is lacking.
<charlie-tca> The other thing which has worked for some Ubuntu users is to run Dragon Natural Speaking under Wine.
<AlanBell> julius has also been included as a library into the simon listens control gui
<AlanBell> which works quite well but I think isn't in Debian yet as there were some issues around licensing of the Julius component
<AlanBell> and compatibility of various free software licenses I think
<charlie-tca> But when you need the software, it is well worth investigating.
<charlie-tca> Where to get help or information:
<AlanBell> it would be great to have better voice recognition and the holy grail of continuous speech dictation
<charlie-tca> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Accessibility
<charlie-tca> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility
<charlie-tca> The Accessibility section of Ubuntu Forums
<charlie-tca> #ubuntu-accessibility on IRC
<charlie-tca> The mailing list at ubuntu-accessiblity@lists.ubuntu.com
<charlie-tca> also, the ubuntu accessibility team is http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Team
<charlie-tca> The Gnome A11y team is also often useful: gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org & http://projects.gnome.org/accessibility/
<charlie-tca> Let's get a big thank you out to all of you for participating in OpenWeek. It is a pleasure to be able to do these sessions.
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ubuntu Open Week - Current Session: Using Unity like a Boss, trips and tricks - Instructors: jcastro
<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/10/21/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
<jcastro> oor if you prefer, ninja, thundercat, or whatever expert mode thing you're into
<jcastro> I'm going to go over how I use Unity on a day to day basis
<jcastro> and how I use it's advanced features to become a multitasking force to be reckoned with
<jcastro> I'm going to go through how I use it, and then I can field some questions that you might have about getting the most out of unity.
<jcastro> So first off, I use Unity in a dual panel twinview set up
<jcastro> with a 24" and 22" inch monitor
<jcastro> some people think Unity isn't designed for high resolution screens, and is more for netbooks
<jcastro> however, even on big panels, you get more room for the things you really care about
<jcastro> like applications
<jcastro> your web page
<jcastro> and whatever content you are working on
<jcastro> So let's start off with some terminology
<jcastro> http://askubuntu.com/questions/10228/whats-the-right-terminology-for-unitys-ui-elements/62842#62842
<jcastro> there are the parts that make up unity
<jcastro> the launcher is thing on the left, and the dash is the overlay thing, this is where we'll do a bunch of our power usery kind of stuff
<jcastro> the first thing I do on my new unity set up is to set the launcher up
<jcastro> this gives us a few nice options
<jcastro> first off, I organize things on the launcher in order of how I work
<jcastro> so for me, it's the file manager first
<jcastro> then the browser
<jcastro> then mail
<jcastro> then twitter
<jcastro> then google docs
<jcastro> then update manager
<jcastro> then music
<jcastro> I set up all my computers this way
<jcastro> because Unity has pretty awesome keyboard shortcuts:
<jcastro> http://askubuntu.com/questions/28086/what-are-unitys-keyboard-and-mouse-shortcuts
<jcastro> and my favorite shortcut is Super-#
<jcastro> So, the super key is commonly seen as the Windows key on most keyboards
<jcastro> So from top to bottom, you can do Super-1, Super-2, etc.
<jcastro> and it corresponds to whatever order the app is on the launcher
<jcastro> so Super-1 always launches my file manager
<jcastro> Super-2 always launches my browser
<jcastro> and so on down the row.
<jcastro> I put my launcher things in order because this builds up my /muscle memory/
<jcastro> so, in the morning, when I log in
<jcastro> I do:
<jcastro> super-1, move to another desktop, super-2, move to another desktop, and then super-3 and I'm set to go
<jcastro> since I always set my computers the same, I always _know_ that my browser is super-2, and it becomes part of my routine
<jcastro> Now, sometimes you don't want to keep things in your launcher
<jcastro> or sometimes you want to find a file you've been working on
<jcastro> so the next 2 shortcuts I use are super-a and super-f
<jcastro> the super-a always takes me to applications
<jcastro> and super-f, my files
<jcastro> so, for example, I don't use Cheese often enough to care about putting it in my launcher
<jcastro> so I do "super-a" then start typing out c-h-e-e-s-e
<jcastro> the dash auto completes and I can just hit enter and it launches
<jcastro> in this way I can quickly launch any app from wherever I am on the desktop
<jcastro> If I ever want to just keep cheese on my launcher
<jcastro> I can right click on it and select "keep in launcher"
<jcastro> or I can just drag it right onto my launcher for the dash
<jcastro> QUESTION: why don't you just use session management so that that happens automatically on login?
<jcastro> I usually log out and suspend my machine at night, but my wife sometimes uses my PC and I generally can't be bothered to save my sessions
<jcastro> however on my laptop since I rarely  reboot it (I just close the lid) my set up is usually persistant inbetween sessions
<jcastro> any other questions before I move on?
<jcastro> ok
<jcastro> so that's how I roll with launching apps
<jcastro> but mostly, think about it like when people first moved from Yahoo to Google
<jcastro> in Yahoo, they tried to organize the web
<jcastro> into categories
<jcastro> and you would have to sit there, and think "Ok, I have a question about star wars, let me click TV, then sci fi, then maybe I can find something."
<jcastro> so you would sit there all day "browsing menus"
<jcastro> then, one day google came around
<jcastro> and instead you just typed what you wanted, and it did all the hard work
<jcastro> so if I want to make a presentation
<jcastro> I just start typing out "presentation", and usually within a few keystrokes I'm already launching the app
<jcastro> you don't even need to wait for the dash to render the search
<jcastro> you can double-tap enter as a kind of "I'm feeling lucky" and unity will just get out of your way and launch the first app
<jcastro> ok so now I can launch apps quickly
<jcastro> now I need to be able to manage them
<jcastro> if I open a bunch of terminals I can get to them in a bunch of ways
<jcastro> one is to click on the terminal icon
<jcastro> which shows me a spread
<jcastro> or I can alt-tab over to the terminal and do alt-`
<jcastro> or just alt-`
<jcastro> let me explain alt-` for a minute
<jcastro> on US keyboards the shortcut is alt-`
<jcastro> but really it's alt and whatever key is above your tab key
<jcastro> Unity detects your keyboard layout and makes it so that the alt-key above tab is actually window level switching
<jcastro> Alt-tab is _application_ level switching
<jcastro> so when you alt tab, it goes to the next application
<jcastro> when you alt-key-above-tab, it switches between _windows_
<jcastro> this is kind of hard to explain on IRC, so I made a video!
<jcastro> http://www.youtube.com/user/whiprush69?feature=mhee#p/u
<jcastro> (this is my favorite feature in ubuntu right now)
<jcastro> because a certain OS is window based
<jcastro> and another one is applicationish based
<jcastro> and this is a hybrid, which flows really well
<jcastro> now, Alt-tab and alt-` are good for that
<jcastro> but you can also use a combination of the spread mode to switch between apps
<jcastro> you can invoke this by using super-w
<jcastro> this gives you an entire overlay view of all your applicatioins
<jcastro> sometimes I find this quicker to use than alt-tab or alt-`
<jcastro> but really it depends on how you lay out your windows
<jcastro> before 11.10 I just used this method of multitasking
<jcastro> which I have made a video for here: http://blip.tv/jorge-castro/how-i-multitask-in-unity-5015448
<jcastro> I find using this way works for me
<jcastro> it really depends on what you find more comfortable
<jcastro> for example, on my laptop I prefer to alt-tab because it's a smaller monitor, and I like to keep it "tight"
<jcastro> on my desktop I have like 40 inches wide of desktop panel space
<jcastro> so I tend to use the super-w more there, since the spread view has more room to show me what's going on
<jcastro> QUESTION: what do i do when this happens: http://imagebin.org/180164
<jcastro> ok so in this pic you've moved to spread mode
<jcastro> what you can do here is either mouse on the window you want and click
<jcastro> or you can use the arrow keys to navigate to the window you want, and then hit enter
<jcastro> QUESTION: yes, but how am i supposed to tell which window is the one i want when they are all so tiny and also they move around
<jcastro> right, so in this case, this is one of those cases where you have 15 terminal windows
<jcastro> and it's challenging to put so many windows on the screen
<jcastro> what I do in cases like this is I use tabs in the terminals themselves
<jcastro> ali says "ypically i want "the terminal window that is on the current workspace""
<jcastro> ah right
<jcastro> so this is a bit of a sensitive topic for some people
<jcastro> where you want to be able to limit the windows you can manage to just that workspace
<jcastro> instead of showing you every window on your entire desktop
<jcastro> currently there is no way to do this
<jcastro> but, here's a work around I use:
<jcastro> http://i.stack.imgur.com/G834P.png
<jcastro> the second checkbox there
<jcastro> for "Bias alt-tab sorting" does put the applications in the alt-tab switcher FIRST on the list
<jcastro> so the apps from your current workspace will be shown first
<jcastro> unfortunately this doesn't work with the spread mode afaict, but it's one of those corner cases we need to improve
<jcastro> DBO: anything you want to add about that?
<jcastro> jcastro: it will bias apps or windows? Because, with the terminal example, the terminal on the current workspace is the one I want to see, not the other 4 on my other workspace.
<jcastro> (DBO is answering this question in -chat, and I'll paste it in here)
<nigelb> jcastro: Voiced DBO :)
<DBO> ah now I can answer here
<DBO> so in short
<jcastro> thanks!
<DBO> the bias option changes the sorting method of the windows in the switcher
<DBO> so that they bias to the current workspaces windows (they sort first)
<DBO> this means apps on the current workspace will always sort higher than apps not on the current workspace
<DBO> this causes the alt-tab behavior to be similar to how it was before for users who prefer that
<DBO> in Pretty Pony we will be improving this further
<jcastro> another thing you can do
<DBO> and making this option act even more closely to what these types of users expect
<jcastro> especially with terminals (this is a ninja sysadmin trick here), is to use the --class option in a terminal to make certain terminals lie to unity and make it think it's a totally different application
<jcastro> Jamie started talking about it here: http://penguindroppings.wordpress.com/2011/04/08/unity-and-me/
<jcastro> and I've documented it here: http://askubuntu.com/questions/34597/how-do-i-make-a-custom-launcher-for-terminal-applications
<jcastro> in this way you can call your mutt window "--class=mail"
<jcastro> and it won't get lost with the other terminals
<jcastro> In my AU answer I linked, I make all my remote terminals launch with "--class=remoteserver"
<jcastro> so when I am managing my windows I can effectively "split" my remote stuff from my normal terminals
<jcastro> QUESTION: tell us more about this --class option - t sounds like something that would be incredibly useful to me :)
<jcastro> right so I discovered this when Jamie mentioned it
<jcastro> and I have been playing with it
<jcastro> however I don't use it with enough gusto to know any more advanced things to do with it
<jcastro> which is why I recommend you just play with it, and then write it down somewhere
<jcastro> so other people can play with it and improve it.
<jcastro> QUESTION: oh, so it only works if you launch from the launcher?
<jcastro> QUESTION: is it just for terminals or any app?
<jcastro> so this is a feature of gnome-terminal
<jcastro> but I am not sure if you can arbritrarily set the WM class on just any old app, DBO?
<DBO> you can't, some apps, most apps, simply will set it when they startup
<DBO> some gtk apps will pass on the option to gtk to let you override it
<jcastro> Some mentions that "my mail window is a firefox window not terminal :)"
<DBO> but thats only if they are well coded
<jcastro> what I do in that case, is unity recognizes web app mode at least for chrome and chromium, so my gmail shortcut is a separate app, it doesn't mix in with my normal chrome windows
<jcastro> I have not found a way to replicate that behavior in Firefox, it seems they're going more for "app tabs" than allowing you to have app window mode.
<jcastro> question: is there a specific place i can go to see a full list of available shortcuts? such as ctrl+alt+t to execute the terminal.
<jcastro> We have those here:
<jcastro> http://askubuntu.com/questions/28086/what-are-unitys-keyboard-and-mouse-shortcuts
<jcastro> and it's usually kept up to date
<jcastro> ok so moving on
<jcastro> one thing I like to be able to do is place my windows quickly
<jcastro> this is especially nice on large monitors
<jcastro> I can drag a window to the left or right edge and it will fill 50% of that space
<jcastro> but most people know that, since I saw a commercial about a guy who was in the shower and had this vision and told microsoft and they implemented it in windows 7
<jcastro> one thing that you won't find in win7 for that feature is the powerful placement you can do with the keyboard for this
<jcastro> so ....
<jcastro> when you have a window selected
<jcastro> you can hit ctrl-alt-4 or ctrl-alt-6
<jcastro> (image your numpad as a representation of your screen)
<jcastro> now
<jcastro> we don't only do left right
<jcastro> you can do ctral-alt-8 to do top
<jcastro> ctrl-alt-2 to do bottom
<jcastro> or my personal favorite, the corners
<jcastro> I used to sit there OCDing placing terminals in each corner all day
<jcastro> now I keyboard shortcut them into a corner
<jcastro> a nice thing is too
<jcastro> you can keep hitting the key to keep resizing the window
<jcastro> so
<jcastro> try this
<jcastro> select a window
<jcastro> and do ctrl-alt-8 a few times
<jcastro> and you can cycle through
<jcastro> and as you expect, ctrl-alt-5 will center it
<jcastro> (hit that a bunch of times to see what happens)
<jcastro> (yes, this needs to be a touchpad)
<jcastro> not the normal numbers unfortunatelyt
<jcastro> so it's not as useful on a laptop
<jcastro> unless you have one of those ridiculous 17 inch monsters with a numpad keyboard
<jcastro> as ali noted, left and right don't have multiple sizes
<jcastro> those are usually my "I have two windows and I need to copy from one document to another", 2 combos and then they just line up
<jcastro> ok we talked a little bit about launchers
<jcastro> (the things on your launcher)
<jcastro> now, these things have what we call quicklists
<jcastro> which basically mean, you can edit the .desktop files to do all sorts of convenient things to them
<jcastro> here's a list: http://askubuntu.com/questions/35488/list-of-custom-launchers-quicklists-for-unity
<jcastro> as you can see
<jcastro> it's possible to basically make whatever kind of menu thing you want on a launcher so you can right click on it
<jcastro> one thing you can do to help
<jcastro> is if you see a quicklist or figure one out that is just too awesome
<jcastro> is to recommend to that app author to use it
<jcastro> that way, only one person has to suffer through making it by hand
<jcastro> and then we can just improve apps
<jcastro> if you're interested in improving quicklists in general
<jcastro> you can check out this wiki page:
<jcastro> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerUsers/Quicklists
<jcastro> and list your favorite app
<jcastro> and then talk to a developer of the app to see if they're interested
<jcastro> since static quicklists (the ones for editing .desktop files) are pretty easy to maintain, it's a quick an easy way for an app to be integrated into unity with little work
<jcastro> for /dynamic/ quicklists this is trickier
<jcastro> because you need things like the browser to generate a list of Recently Visited pages (or whatever) and then send that to unity
<jcastro> QUESTION: Is there a technical reason the crtl+alt-8/9/5/whatever is not supported on laptops?
<jcastro> no clue on that one
<jcastro> but thinking about it, I would be totally doomed because I kind of need the numpad to be laid you the way it is to show me where the window will go
<jcastro> that's an interesting idea though, file a feature wishlist on that pls.
<jcastro> ok so that's basically how I roll with the Unity.
<ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
<jcastro> nigelb: can we open up this channel for question/discussion?
<nigelb> sure
<jcastro> we can just swap tips and tricks for the last 10 minutes
<jcastro> or maybe DBO has something to add?
<nigelb> Done!
<DBO> If you're coming to UDS
<DBO> remember the DX team is throwing a LAN party
<DBO> on Tuesday night
<jcastro> that's a horrible Unity tip
<DBO> be there, and get fragged
<DBO> (sorry jorge)
<jcastro> :)
<jcastro> DBO: ok so how do you roll wrt. task switching, are you an alt-tabber or a super-w-er?
<jcastro> (I realize I made those 2 words up)
<DBO> I actually am a bit of a weirdo
<DBO> and unity works great for my style, it goes like this
<DBO> I basically have a single application on a desktop (I have 9 desktops)
<DBO> and then I use teh workspace switcher as a "spacial" alt-tab
<DBO> alt-tab and super-w work great for this usage to
<DBO> I tend to use alt-tab when I forget where things are
<ali1234> i've been using unity for 6 months and at this point i have given up entirely on task switching
<ali1234> i just middle click the launcher icons every single time
<ali1234> the first thing i do when i start using my computer each day is cull all the windows i opened yesterday
<ali1234> i started using middle click because i mainly like to open a terminal or browser to quickly check something against a window on the current desktop
<ali1234> i learned that left clicking usually takes me away to another workspcae, which is distracting
<ali1234> so i gave up on reusing windows and now just open new ones all the time
<ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
<ali1234> that's why i have so many terminal windows open
<ali1234> most of them are ones that i've forgotten about
<ali1234> i have nearly as many firefox windows open too
<jcastro> I am like that too
<marcoceppi> DBO what games?
<jcastro> but I've had that problem on every computer I use
<chzbacon> thanks for the good information guys.
<jcastro> ooh, before we wrap up
<ali1234> i didn't have this problem under gnome 2 :/
<jcastro> I also maintain a list of everything I've talked about here, please feel free to add on your own tips and ninjaness:
<jcastro> http://askubuntu.com/questions/36274/tips-and-tricks-for-unity
<chzbacon> jcastro: do you have a twitter account we can follow you on?
<jcastro> yeah
<jcastro> @castrojo
<meetingology> jcastro: Error: "castrojo" is not a valid command.
<jcastro> or you can find me on google plus
<chzbacon> good deal
<jcastro> ali1234: play around with the class thing
<jcastro> it might help you organize them better
<ali1234> the only tip i have is to carefully arrange windows so that some part of them is always visible, and never minimize them
<jcastro> though it would be nice if we had something better for your use case
<ali1234> also you never answered my question about window sorting :)
<jcastro> oh
<jcastro> we have 2 minutes
<jcastro> ask!
<ali1234> well you showed that tweak for bias
<ali1234> is there one that sorts windows in order of opening, so that the order *never* changes?
<ali1234> so then i can just remember that the terminal i want is the top left one etc
<ali1234> currently they move around every time
<jcastro> I don't think so
<DBO> in the code there is
<jcastro> DBO: ^^
<DBO> its not exposed
<DBO> it sorts in launcher order however
<DBO> rather than opening order
<ali1234> well as long as it is fixed
<ali1234> that's the important thing
<DBO> right
<DBO> still fixed
<DBO> do you want me to expose that for Pretty Pony?
<ali1234> yes please, very much so :)
<DBO> I didn't think it would be popular enough to warrant the option
<DBO> okay consider it done
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ubuntu Open Week - Current Session: Best ways to find technical support help in Ubuntu - Instructors: philipballew
<jcastro> alright we are out of time
<jcastro> thanks everyone
<jcastro> philipballew: ready?
<ali1234> thanks
<jcastro> nigelb: lock it back up please!
<philipballew> jcastro, more the ever :)
<jcastro> alright sir, at your convenience, take it away!
<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/10/21/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
<philipballew> here we go
<philipballew> welcome everyone
<philipballew> welcome to ways to get support in Ubuntu
<philipballew> here I will be discussing the many different types of support you can get for your Ubuntu system
<philipballew> from IRC as we are no now to other types as well
<philipballew> Ubuntu Forums
<philipballew> how many use this?
<philipballew> I do on a fairly regular basis
<philipballew> I have found when trying to get help here it is important to but your question in the appropriate section and not just throw it into the general help
<philipballew> yes, it might not get answered as fast but it will be a good answer buy someone who has more of a skill in a certain area
<philipballew> sometimes with forums you will have people who are having the same problem as you trying to help you and nobody who knows exactly what they are doing
<philipballew> I find sometimes people will google your problem because it is also their problem and make a post saying "has this been solved yet"
<philipballew> sometimes you will get a yes it has response and you will get help, as I have had happen to me. but other times you will see that it just makes the form post longer and therefor people are not as willing to read it to help
<philipballew> How many people use BUMP
<philipballew> Bring Up My Post
<philipballew> if you have not seen any activity on your post in a while you can post that and it will be an indicator that your making your post at the top of the list again
<philipballew> but I find to many bump's on a post are not necessary. sometimes you must look elsewhere
<philipballew> IRC
<philipballew> the key here is to Identify the correct channel for your question.
<philipballew> ubuntu has many channels and often there are many that can answer, so It is important to pick wisely
<philipballew> irc is not as good for really specific questions like U.F. can be
<philipballew> if its a problem specific to your model, sometimes you might be better off in a forum
<philipballew> The narrower the channel , the longer the answer might take
<philipballew> Once I had a grub issue
<philipballew> i asked a question on irc on the network manager channel and it took a few days for someone to help. I was prepared for this, but still...
<philipballew> sometimes it can take longer on a channel then others
<philipballew> let me paste the Ubuntu irc channel list here
<philipballew> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/ChannelList
<philipballew> here all channels are shown
<philipballew> not everyone knows about the small channels and sometimes they can be good for narrower questions
<philipballew> another thing is to try to not post in multiple Ubuntu channels. Most people are in several channels anyway
<philipballew> you want to wait a certain amount of time before you post in a different Ubuntu channel
<philipballew> !q
<philipballew> ahh... haha
<philipballew> you will see that often people do this and end up having several people helping them at once, and this is not a good thing
<ClassBot> jrgifford asked: is #ubuntu considered "a good place" to get help? I've heard the signal-noise ratio isn't the best.
<philipballew> Its a real hit and miss
<philipballew> sometimes you will see people who are new to ubuntu irc post there
<philipballew> other times its people who do not use ubuntu much and just want a simple answer and are un aware of the other channels
<philipballew> people will often go and ask there and not get answered to to the sheer volume of questions being asked
<philipballew> it is a hard channel to ask on. Sometimes it takes effort where an other channel might not take as much effort
<philipballew> Ask Ubuntu:
<philipballew> this is a good place for getting some help similar to forums
<philipballew> but different in good ways
<philipballew> It seems to me to have various ways to get slightly more technical questions and not just troubleshooting a problem.
<philipballew> also more Unity issues I see there
<philipballew> and people asking questions about
<philipballew> people do ask questions that need troubleshooting there, sometimes it is done through the chat windows bellow on the questions page
<philipballew> also this is not a place to report bugs. that is launchpad.
<philipballew> Launchpad
<philipballew> if you are having trouble on your system and you have use irc or ask ubuntu or ubuntu forums or you are skilled enough on your own to deduce you have found a bug, launchpad is a good place to post it.
<philipballew> you can post a bug to launchpad as I have a couple times and it will assign or let people know who are a part of the team that manages that part of Ubuntu
<philipballew> it is cool because you can let the main ubuntu people know what you have found
<philipballew> Ubuntu brainstorm.
<philipballew> how many people still use this?
<philipballew> I view it on a fair basis
<philipballew> http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/
<philipballew> its a cool way to put ideas you have about things to add to ubuntu and let others know about them
<philipballew> maybe if you have a feature you might like and want to see if others are down with it as well
<philipballew> LoCo
<philipballew> how many of you are part of a LoCo
<philipballew> their awesome
<philipballew> if you need some ubuntu friends a LoCo is a great way to go
<philipballew> also, every LoCo should have a email list, this is cool because you can ask help questions there
<philipballew> if you need help, your LoCo should be able to help many times
<philipballew> often they have a lot of knowledge, and are the ones hanging out on the irc channels
<philipballew> if you want a in person question, you should look into a ubuntu hour to see if they can help you in person, they are also great to help others yourself as well
<philipballew> i go the my San Diego ubuntu a lot and have some people help me with my laptop on a fairly regular basis
<philipballew> Canonical support
<philipballew> Canonical support can give you support for your ubuntu machine if you want professional level support.
<philipballew> it is not bad for people who need that type of support and they can offer it
<philipballew> here is a link
<philipballew> http://www.canonical.com/enterprise-services/ubuntu-advantage/support
<philipballew> http://www.ubuntu.com/business/services/overview
<ClassBot> pangolin asked: How often do ideas from brainstorm get added to Ubuntu, any stats?
<philipballew> I have seen it happen. I do not know any numbers off hand though, sorry about that
<philipballew> but it does happen. though they might be moving to ask ubuntu more
<philipballew> as i finish up here i will leave you with a link
<philipballew> http://www.ubuntu.com/support
<philipballew> it had stuff I did not have time to mention
<ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
<philipballew> what a fun week it has been!
<philipballew> Open Week has ended. What fun we have had!!!
<ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/10/21/%23ubuntu-classroom.html
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat ||
<Kvrmurthy> j
#ubuntu-classroom 2011-10-22
<screwgoth_> Hi, I'm trying to create and submit my first ever patch to Ubuntu using edit-patch. But it throws me the error "No patchsystem detected, cannot create new patch (no dpatch/quilt/cdbs?)".  Any help ?
#ubuntu-classroom 2011-10-23
<Donquijote> hi
<Donquijote> help
#ubuntu-classroom 2012-10-15
<shookees> hi
<JoseeAntonioR> Hello, shookees.
#ubuntu-classroom 2012-10-18
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Current Session: Ubuntu Women Career Days:  - Instructors: Dolasilla
<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/10/18/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
<Cheri703> Hi everyone, welcome to our CareerDays session!
<Cheri703> We had a pretty lengthy hiatus, but we are back!
<Cheri703> Today's presentation is goign to be by Dolasilla - Silvia Bindelli, about being a Software Release Coordinator!
<Cheri703> Silvia was also recently elected to the Ubuntu Women Leadership team, so we're very excited to have her.
<Cheri703> As always: To ask a question, you need to be in #ubuntu-classroom-chat and ask your question in the following format:
<Cheri703> QUESTION: <question>
<Cheri703> Where <question> is your actual question. If you do not begin the line with QUESTION:, ClassBot will not recognize it, and your question will most likely not get answered.
<Cheri703> Alright, Dolasilla, if you're ready, take it away!
<Dolasilla> Hello all!
<Dolasilla> I'm really exciteted to be here
<Dolasilla> So, first, let me introduce myself
<Dolasilla> I'm Silvia, I was born in northern Italy 29 years ago, but I currently live in South of France (which, bottom line, I love!).
<Dolasilla> I'm a computer engineer, I graduated at the Politecnico di Milano 4 years ago, with a master thesis in software engineering.
<Dolasilla> (ah, a little disclaimer: feel completely free to ask question at any time in the chat channel, I will try to answer them as soon as they get)
<Dolasilla> I started being involved in opensource since 2007 but I've been using open source tools for longer time
<Dolasilla> Also my master thesis was about an autonomic system (a system able to self-manage) and it was integrating some open source projects, like for instance LIME (http://lime.sourceforge.net/index.html)
<Dolasilla> After graduation I've worked for like 5 months at the university as an assistant researcher in the same field as my master thesis (software engineering), and it was pretty interesting!
<Dolasilla> After that I've been working in the IT department of a fashion company (yeah, sounds weird) where I was in charge of the business process management project.
<Dolasilla> This is also an experience I've enjoyed pretty much.
<Dolasilla> I love talking to people, and improving their life through technology
<Dolasilla> and that position gave the possibility to really do that
<Dolasilla> During that time I had to discuss with managers to understand the way they worked, and then implementing the same or improved processes in the tool, in order to automatize part of their activities and providing a way to organize the output of each phase, in order to build an organized knowledge base structured on the activity flow.
<Dolasilla> The tool was very interesting as well: unfortunately not open source, but based on a J2EE architecture.
<Dolasilla> It had a very practical user interface, to do the most of the job. But it also allowed to develop new features and to integrate it with the legacy systems of the company.
<Dolasilla> I had fun "playing" with it in order to customize it to better fit the needs of the company.
<Dolasilla> Such a job was allowing me to deal both with technologies and with people, that is a balance I try to find in all my jobs, as I love both aspects.
<Dolasilla> After a couple of years I moved to south of France, looking for new experiences but always trying to keep those two element alive in my day-to-day job.
<Dolasilla> And I've managed to get it in my current position as a release coordinator.
<Dolasilla> I'm currently working in a big IT company which operates mainly in the online booking business. Bookings of flights, hotels, etc...
<Dolasilla> My job mainly consists in coordinating the activities that bring a new release of a software or a patch to the production systems for one of the divisions.
<Dolasilla> Basically my role starts after the QA phases and before the actual use of the system by everyone.
<Dolasilla> We have a big datacenter, located in a different country
<Dolasilla> the releasing team coordinates the activities that actually send new pieces of software to the datacenter
<Dolasilla> our customers are airlines
<Dolasilla> hotels
<Dolasilla> but even travel agencies
<Dolasilla> so what we "send" to the data center are both real software upgrades
<Dolasilla> but also customizations of the websites of customers, of the way the flow of your booking is shown to you when you book a flight
<Dolasilla> (or an hotel room or whatever else)
<Dolasilla> So if we look at the day-to-day activity, it actually consists of a mixture of technical and social skills that you need to use everyday.
<Dolasilla> From a technical point of view, for instance, in my team we maintain the configurations of the the production systems (which of course cannot be the same of the development or testing or Quality Assurance platforms).
<Dolasilla> We get the updates of such configuration set by architecture and development teams, and we store them in our tool to make sure they are applied to the right "farm"
<Dolasilla> for those who are less familiar with the farm concept, take it as a logical abstraction of a set of server
<Dolasilla> Of course another important element in our job is we have to know the main architecture of production systems and the way newly developed software is deployed.
<Dolasilla> About the social side of the job, instead, we often have to coordinate several activities at the same time (technical changes on production servers, new customization of customer websites, new software releases,...).
<Dolasilla> Often we find ourselves to be in the middle, having to mediate between the need to keep production environments as much stable as possible, and the needs of marketing to keep the customers happy complying to all of their requests for new features.
<Dolasilla> This can be challanging, but since I'm there I have definetly improved my coordination skills, having to take into account at the same time several different activities and needs
<Dolasilla> !y
<ubot2> U is the 21st letter of the modern latin alphabet. Neither 'U' nor 'Ur' are words in the English language. Neither are 'R', 'Y', 'l8', 'ryt',  'Ne1' nor 'Bcuz'. Mangled English is hard for non-native English speakers. Please see http://geekosophical.net/random/abbreviations/ for more information.
<ClassBot> Cheri703 asked: What is the usual time table you are working on? How long is the release process?
<Dolasilla> It depends
<Dolasilla> if we consider the single web application of the single customer, they have really frequent updates
<Dolasilla> on a weekly bases
<Dolasilla> basis
<Dolasilla> if we think instead of the core of the software, so the engine which actually allows for the booking flows and to search a flight
<Dolasilla> we typically have 3 major releases per year
<Dolasilla> and 1 or 2 service packs between them
<Dolasilla> but of course, the work for the release that is going to production next month has started much time ago
<Dolasilla> the discussion about which changes should be included in it have started also one year in advance
<Dolasilla> We in the releasing team come to the very end of the flow
<Dolasilla> after all development and testing has been done
<Dolasilla> of course, some preparation is needed on our side also, before we actually go in production
<Dolasilla> The classical flow for a new release from our side is: we first get new configuration settings, some days in advance, in order to store them in our releasing tools.
<Dolasilla> We also get notified in case we need to include some technical migration of the underlying technologies (application servers, web servers,...).
<shookees> hi
<Dolasilla> nce we get the record for the new release, we check its content, include the notes about new configurations and send it to another team in charge of "packing" things up and send them to production.
<Dolasilla> This is only an example of the main standard flow, after that there are several different kind of loads as well as different targets depending on the product and the customers.
<Dolasilla> In general, for anything, the "packing" part is mostly automated
<Dolasilla> The packaging team role is mostly to supervise the packing part, the application of the load on our test system, and then the sending of the delivery
<Dolasilla> and to raise exceptions in case they notice something wrong
<Dolasilla> The job gets particularly interesting when it is about new implementations of new products and for new customers.
<Dolasilla> In this case we have to set up our tools and testing environments to consider new farms. And often we face unforseen challanges about how to deploy brand new architectures and how to handle, afterwards, their maintenance.
<Dolasilla> Or it happens that something on which developers are working on their platform need to be sent to production farms, but the content is huge and new in the structure which requires to coordinate different teams in finding a solution, which most likely implies changes in the releasing tools and processes.
<Dolasilla> Here the job can get technically quite interesting when it's about thinking solutions to new problems. But also the coordination part keeps being important, to interact with several different teams (development, production support, QA,..) to get the inputs needed for setting up new environments.
<Dolasilla> So basically if in most of the cases we have defined processes and tools to automate the job, the challange comes when you get something new which does not fit in
<Dolasilla> And you have to think of new processes as well as changings in the tools
<Dolasilla> We have in general calm moments, like between a service pack and a release, where we just have standard patches
<Dolasilla> and really tense moment, during release time
<Dolasilla> where everything must work fine and at the right time
<Dolasilla> to minimize the impact on customers, to make sure they get the newest version working properly since the very first day
<Dolasilla> It's always about trying to find a balance between offering always the latest improvement, and to keep the stability of production systems
<Dolasilla> From the technological point of view, the company being so big, production systems integrate a wide number of technologies, some of them are open source some others are proprietary.
<Dolasilla> we also have several internal tools we use to maintain configurations and to ease our releasing job: they care for us of all the configurations of each farm and each product. we just have to keep them up to date everytime there is something new, and then they will automatically fill the fields of parametrized configuration files.
<Dolasilla> Also these tools are based on a variety of technologies, and we often rely on open source ones, like apache servers, for instance.
<Dolasilla> We handle our own tools and this allow us to have the flexibility to update them quickly when a new need rises
<Dolasilla> I would say this is more or less it, hope I've been able to provide a global idea of what I do, but I would be happy to answer any question or to explain further any aspect
<ClassBot> Cheri703 asked: Is your job one that you "leave at work" or is it the type of job that if something goes wrong you'll get a call during the night that something needs attention?
<Dolasilla> The second one you said ;)
<Dolasilla> let's say, in general, we manage to "leave at work"
<Dolasilla> but in cut-off periods, so when a big new implementation is going to production
<Dolasilla> then we can get definetly called at night, and it happened to me as well
<Dolasilla> because if you are changing the full systems of the callcenter of some big company
<Dolasilla> you may find new issues that you did not find even in all the tests
<Dolasilla> and then you need to send immediately the fix to production
<Dolasilla> you cannot wait the next day
<Dolasilla> even because if the company is on the other side of the world "next day" can be a relative concept
<Dolasilla> anyways, in "normal" mode, we don't get called
<Cheri703> Awesome. :D
<Cheri703> I'm going to put out a final call, if anyone has any other questions, please ask them in #ubuntu-classroom-chat
<Cheri703> Well, thank you again to Dolasilla for your time and presentation!
<Dolasilla> My pleasure!
<Cheri703> As always we'll have the logs linked at http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/CareerDays and we'll post them to the Ubuntu Women blog as well.
<Dolasilla> thanks to you!
<Cheri703> If anyone has any further questions after reading through the logs, definitely feel free to contact the UW Team through the contact info on the CareerDays page.
<Dolasilla> Bye everyone, feel free to contact me for any further question!
<ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
<ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/10/18/%23ubuntu-classroom.html
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat ||
#ubuntu-classroom 2012-10-19
<obounaim> Good morning
<JoseeAntonioR> Hello, obounaim, how can I help you?
<obounaim> Thanks JoseeAntonioR, I'm just greeting everybody
#ubuntu-classroom 2013-10-16
<syeekick> hi could someone help me at all?
<syeekick> i;ve got a crippling problem
<daniel_> RunTimeInformation>
<daniel_> 1query
#ubuntu-classroom 2013-10-17
<ubper> hi
<ubper> anyone that helps me on TCOS? (if is possible, speak in spanish, thanks)
#ubuntu-classroom 2013-10-18
<^Tristesse^> is ubuntu better than other operating systems? why?
#ubuntu-classroom 2015-10-12
<Thaacki> sooo
<Pa444> anyone on, need some help with command if someone can help
