#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-07-18
<snap-l> I think my goal this year is to go to UDS
<snap-l> since it's in the states.
<brousch> gonna join canonical?
<snap-l> Heh
<snap-l> WOuldn't that e grand
<brousch> snap-l: you're awesome enough
<rick_h_> https://twitter.com/#!/coffeejoulies interesting
<snap-l> God, sometimes Python drives me insane
<snap-l> Trying to see if something exists in a database
<snap-l> running a query, and then checking it with .one to see if one result was returned
<snap-l> Returns:
<snap-l> sqlalchemy.orm.exc.NoResultFound: No row was found for one()
<snap-l> if it didn't find anything
<snap-l> But I'll be fucked if I can maky a try / except that will catch that.
<rick_h_> heh
<rick_h_> ok, so the easy check is to use .first()
<rick_h_> that will return None if no value found
<rick_h_> and you can just do if res is not None:
<rick_h_> for try/except you need to import the exteption from sqlalchemy
<rick_h_> from sqlalchemy.orm.exc import NoResultFound
<rick_h_> and then try: do .one
<snap-l> yeah
<rick_h_> catch NoResultFound, exc:
<snap-l> it's kind of a hassle
<rick_h_> right, which is why people tend to do a .first() and check for none
<rick_h_> or better yet, make sure that is all wrapped in a Mgr function
<snap-l> It would also be nice if it would allow me access to the colum it retrieved easily.
<snap-l> This IS in a manager function
<rick_h_> you're getting a model object back, not a columN?
<rick_h_> paste your code
<snap-l> grr
<snap-l> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/364/
<snap-l> I'm starting to think that sqlalchemy is making this more difficult than what I want
<snap-l> I want something that's essentiall a queue object and a show object
<snap-l> instead I'm getting these manager classes that don't do 100% of what I want
<snap-l> Line 94 is where I test the URL
<snap-l> Line 140 is where I test to see if it exists already.
<rick_h_> right, so I'm missing the purpose of the queue part. Why is it persistant? In case the script dies mid-stream or someting?
<snap-l> Yes
<snap-l> It needs to be persistent because the queue handles if the show has been downloaded or not
<snap-l> once downloaded, it sets the downloaded flag to true
<snap-l> otherwise, you'd re-download everything
<rick_h_> right, gotcha
<snap-l> SO as it's posted, it works
<snap-l> but I'm wondering if there's a better way to do this
<rick_h_> yea, sec, I'd go about this differently tbh
<rick_h_> working on some sample stuff
<rick_h_> will take a sec
<snap-l> tx
<snap-l> I intially did this differently... I did it in Perl. ;)
<rick_h_> https://gist.github.com/1088511
<rick_h_> is a base run of the idea
<rick_h_> don't store the queue, but store a log of your runs through the shows
<rick_h_> if you restart, then it'll go back through all the shows
<rick_h_> but it checks the log to see if it's been run in the last 2hrs
<rick_h_> and if so skips it
<rick_h_> else processes the show through a queue that only lives through the livetime of the script
<rick_h_> but the queue is auto adding "this was added"
<snap-l> Um, I think that misses the point. :)
<snap-l> Check lococast.net's feed sometime. ;)
<rick_h_> thought the point was go through the list of shows, get their feeds, and process them
<rick_h_> but if you had to restart it wouldn't rerun the ones that have already run
<snap-l> Right, but you'd download all of the shows still
<rick_h_> I just pull them from the db
<rick_h_> and shove them into the queue
<rick_h_> but the code that pulls from the queue is the smart bit
<rick_h_> checks the run_or_skipped to get the last time it was actually downloaded from the log (ShowTracker)
<rick_h_> meh, yea, this isn't 100% through since you're actually adding ot the queue even though it's been run recently.
<rick_h_> so guess move gthe last_run check up to be before the q.put(show)
<rick_h_> that way you don't put it in the queue if it's been run in the last 2hrs
<rick_h_> and then you'dneed to update that run_or_skipped in the code that actually calls the url and fetches the content
<snap-l> I'm not surethis is much better than what I currently have.
<snap-l> Since what I have will put in the shows from the feed, and then proceed to chunk through and download them
<snap-l> they'll still show up in the feed, but they'll be compared to see if some action was taken at some point
<snap-l> and if so, it's ignored
<snap-l> if not, it's added with a downloaded flad of false.
<rick_h_> well the point I'm saying is to not db store the queue
<rick_h_> but store the successful processing
<rick_h_> and check that vs everything going into the db
<rick_h_> then make the queue smart to know how to check the log to determine "does this go into my work queue or not"
<snap-l> Hmm...
<snap-l> so instead of storing it in the DB, it's on the filesystem
<rick_h_> in memory, the queue part is
<snap-l> which means it's in two places then. ;)
<rick_h_> if you restart the script, the queue starts back up
<rick_h_> no, nothing on disk
<rick_h_> it repulls the show list and goes through the feeds checking when the last time this feed was successfully processed
<snap-l> where is the log stored?
<rick_h_> log is in db
<rick_h_> the ShowTracker()
<snap-l> Hmm... I'll need to think about this
<rick_h_> meh, I'm not following everything I guess.
<rick_h_> maybe we can chat at CHC or something
<snap-l> IN any event, laptop is about to die
<snap-l> Thanks for looking into it, though
<snap-l> Yeah, I think that might be best
<snap-l> I think we're talking about somewhat similar things.
<snap-l> but there's some implementation differences.
<snap-l> Hope you have a great night!
<rick_h_> you too
<rick_h_> oh dude, this should be show has many episdoes
<rick_h_> and then you just do a query join and check that show.episode[0] != the latest from the feed
<rick_h_> ok, not tested, but start of it: http://paste.mitechie.com/show/365/
<rick_h_> check out: http://www.sqlalchemy.org/docs/orm/collections.html?highlight=attribute_mapped_collection#sqlalchemy.orm.collections.attribute_mapped_collection
<rick_h_> I use for the relation so you can do the check if url in show.episodes
<rick_h_> very easily
<Wolfger> Morning
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> rick_h_: Ah, that makes more sense to do it that way
<snap-l> since it technically is a list of episodes, not a queue
<brousch> rick_h_ _stink_ the Detroit Science Center is frickin awesome
<snap-l> brousch: Compared with... ?
<brousch> i don't know. it is by far the most awesome place like that i've been to
<brousch> it's like the GR children's museum * 50
<brousch> We were there for 4 hours and saw maybe 50% of it
<snap-l> Hmm, maybe I need to head back there sometime
<snap-l> last time wasn't that impressive
<snap-l> but that was a while ago
<brousch> it's huge
<brousch> 4 floors of stuff
<brousch> imax movies, planetarium
<brousch> i wouldn't go without a kid
<rick_h_> snap-l: cool, yea and the mapped attribute makes sure when the relation builds it indexes on the url so it's easy to check if it's already been loaded/not
<snap-l> rick_h_: https://github.com/craigmaloney/Piddlepodder-Python/blob/master/shows.py
<snap-l> Traceback (most recent call last):
<snap-l>   File "shows.py", line 62, in <module>
<snap-l>     class Episode(Base):
<snap-l>   File "shows.py", line 72, in Episode
<snap-l>     order_by=Episode.id.desc())
<snap-l> NameError: name 'Episode' is not defined
<greg-g> brousch: awesome re the DSC
<rick_h_> snap-l: yea, sorry. Can't define episode before it's been defined
<rick_h_> change that to the string "tablename.id"
<rick_h_> where tablename is your choice of table for episodes
<snap-l> OK, cool
<snap-l> Wasn't sure if it was something I did to goof it up
<snap-l> tablename being the name of the table, right? ;)
<rick_h_> snap-l: right
<snap-l> Hmm, now I'm getting AttributeError: 'Table' object has no attribute 'id'
<rick_h_> there's an id column right?
<snap-l> si
<rick_h_> sorry, just getting going this morning from last night and don't have the windows up still
<snap-l> https://github.com/craigmaloney/Piddlepodder-Python/commit/64bfb4c9aa57662ea734d94fa0487d37fcc1ae45
<snap-l> No worries
<snap-l> I appreciate you taking the time last night to look at this
<rick_h_> no problem, couldn't sleep. Sorry it took me a bit to understand what was up.
<rick_h_> the queue thing threw me off, though it was the queue for the work of url fetching
<snap-l> yeah, I have a bad habit of mis-naming things
<snap-l> Was a hold-over from the Perl code as well
<rick_h_> so maybe try it as the object name vs the table
<rick_h_> I don't often do the sort by in the relation
<snap-l> Frankly I don't care re: the sort
<rick_h_> or better yet, move Episode up to the top of the file
<rick_h_> oh right, since we dict-index it you don't need the sort
<rick_h_> I was thinking you'd want to check your latest 10 episodes on your side vs the feed side
<rick_h_> but there's no datetime, so I tacked on the dict index
<snap-l> Yeah
<snap-l> Actually, I should put in a date / time that it was discovered
<snap-l> Also should be able to find the date / time that the show was posted.
<rick_h_> but anyway, I'd move the Episode class first
<rick_h_> then put the relation on the show class instead
<rick_h_> and you can reference the existing Episode class from above everywhere without doing string matches/etc
<snap-l> Yeah, that makes sense.
<snap-l> Thanks!
<snap-l> Though what's curious is I was referencing the episode class in the episode class
<snap-l> and that was screwing it up. :-/
<rick_h_> right, but until it processed the whole class to build the definitino
<rick_h_> it doesn't exist yet
<snap-l> Ah
<rick_h_> so you're in a catch 22 inside there
<snap-l> tricksy python
<rick_h_> so was trying to recall the string based work-around
<rick_h_> but don't do that a whole lot
<snap-l> Heh, and now Show is undefined.
<rick_h_> right
<rick_h_> need to move the relation to the show object
<rick_h_> https://github.com/mitechie/Bookie/blob/master/bookie/models/__init__.py#L122
<rick_h_> the foreign key can be a string like ^^
<snap-l> I need to read up on these
<rick_h_> yea, welcome to my talk material :)
<snap-l> heh
<rick_h_> worked on that some this weekend finally
<snap-l> Nice!
<rick_h_> well, all laid up all weekend pretty much
<rick_h_> did more netflix than anything lol
<brousch> I'm using tonight's grpug meeting to test out half of my presentation
<greg-g> smart
<rick_h_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvep1WaUmOM
<rick_h_> ok, so that's kind of cool
<snap-l> Yeah, that was pretty sweet
<snap-l> Ho boy
<snap-l> My new boss is very new
<rick_h_> uh oh
<snap-l> she's asking me how I'm being billed to the customer
<snap-l> and that concerns me
<rick_h_> thoroughly?
<snap-l> because that's at a level that frankly I don't know
<snap-l> but, if you ever want to make one of your subordinates worry, this is a great way to start
<rick_h_> ugh
<snap-l> jrwren: Do you know if C#'s SOAP supports WSSE?
<_stink_> brousch: awesome, glad you had fun
<rick_h_> lol, python hoooo! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJ7QsEytQq4&feature=youtu.be
<rick_h_> NSFW language-wise
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> OK, that was awesome. :)
<snap-l> Too bad Squeezebox doesn't support media keys
<snap-l> I think it would be the perfect media player for me if it did. ;)
<ptenhoopen> brousch:  Did you see an IMAX show while at the DSC or did you just go to the museum part?
<rick_h_> media keys?
<brousch> we saw a movie in the planetarium and in the imax theater
<ptenhoopen> OK
<snap-l> rick_h_: Never you mind. ;)
<rick_h_> well now I'm curious
<snap-l> rick_h_: It's those special keys on the keyboard for rewind, play, fast-forward.
<rick_h_> ah! run!
<snap-l> I'm sure you have special [CTRL][ALT][SHIFT][hjkl] for that. ;)
<rick_h_> no, actually I just go over to the app and move it
<rick_h_> using amazon web player usually
<snap-l> You mouse over to the app? :)
<snap-l> Horrors.
<Wolfger> I guess technically it survived. It's just damaged to the point of almost total uselessness. http://www.cnn.com/2011/TECH/mobile/07/18/iphone.skydive/index.html
<snap-l> http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2011/Jul-18.html
<snap-l> Novell/Xamarin Partnership around Mono
<rick_h_> yea, interesting
<snap-l> I think it's just cirling the wagons, personally
<snap-l> since it's still Miguel in charge.
<snap-l> Man, I'm not liking the direction of Tracks again
<snap-l> and I keep waffling between Tracks and Todo.sh
<rick_h_> lol
<snap-l> and if I wait for my ass to write something new, I'll be GTND
<snap-l> Getting Things Never Done
<gamerchick02> heh, snap-l
<gamerchick02> good blog post, btw, about CDs
<snap-l> Thanks
<gamerchick02> you're welcome. i posted a comment, but i'm not sure if it's very coherent...
<gamerchick02> this heat is making me stupid.
<brousch> yeah, thanks for the heads up. i bought a dozen susan boyle cds to hand out next xmas. you saved me a ton of cash
<gamerchick02> to your enemies, brousch?
<brousch> aka my loved ones
<gamerchick02> heh
<gamerchick02> oh, did anyone get spotify?
<rick_h_> yea, this heat can shove it
<gamerchick02> i did. can't use it unless i use wine
<rick_h_> naw, lack of interest here
<gamerchick02> this heat can go back to effing Florida.
<gamerchick02> anyway, i wanted to try it out and they have a linux version
<gamerchick02> but it's only for paying customers.
<gamerchick02> nice.
<rick_h_> yea, I don't think they have a linux version
<rick_h_> though someone got it running in wine or something (on one of the ubuntu planets or something)
<gamerchick02> http://gamerchick02.posterous.com/i-got-a-free-spotify-account
<gamerchick02> they do. it's beta
<rick_h_> ah, ok cool
<gamerchick02> if they have better categories than pandora, i'd be all about it
<gamerchick02> like, Gene Kelly. I put Gene Kelly into pandora, I get no Gene Kelly music.
<gamerchick02> it's like WTF?
<gamerchick02> last.fm at least plays GK's music, but one can only listen to SITR so many times.
<gamerchick02> :-/
<snap-l> brousch: You're welcome
<snap-l> I aim to please.
<snap-l> What's the world record for earliest part of the day before wanting to give up on the human race as a whole?
<snap-l> not sure I have a record-beater, but I think it's pretty close.
<Wolfger> I'm pretty sure the record is somewhere near "the instant the alarm clock goes off"
<snap-l> Heh
<snap-l> What I love too is that I'm in a discussion with a developer that claims that our sandbox changed somehow to require something for authentication
<snap-l> when my understanding is that it should have required this all along
<snap-l> Also love that because .Net doesn't support it, we shouldn't be using it.
<gamerchick02> ugh, snap-l.
<Wolfger> OK, I'm going to break down and finally ask... WTF is Spotify? (I know, I could look it up, but I'm stubborn that way)
<Wolfger> there seems to be too much buzz about it, and no substance
<snap-l> Wolfger: I've not used it, but it appears to be another Rdio / Pandoa music service
<Wolfger> Hmm. So... why does the world seem to care?
<snap-l> Apparently CDs are heavy
<Wolfger> LOL. And bulky.
<snap-l> And nobody likes to pay for music
<snap-l> So this gives you a (curated?) stream of music
<Wolfger> see, that's where I'm confused. I gather that it's a subscription service.... and not platform independent... and still in beta... and not unlike Pandora which is free, platform-independent, and stable. So why the fuss? Why is spotify making (obscure, uninformative) headlines?
<Wolfger> Do they just have an awesome press-release writer?
<snap-l> I think they have a way to get it ad-free
<snap-l> Outside of that, I don't know
<snap-l> Perhaps it's the unicorn DJs they have?
<Wolfger> each song is hand-delivered to your ear via fairy?
<snap-l> I have NFC
<Wolfger> ok
<snap-l> I can neither confirm nor dey the use of fairies or unicorns for Spotify.
<gamerchick02> Spotify is a music service like pandora, wolfger
<gamerchick02> it's new and people are having hard-ons for it
<gamerchick02> it's one of the few that was never available in the US.
<Wolfger> ah, ok
<gamerchick02> Count me grumpy if I can't use it on my preferred OS.
<Wolfger> so it's previously-forbidden fruit
<gamerchick02> yeah
<gamerchick02> it's the whole "i want it cuz i can't have it" thing
<gamerchick02> i wanted to give it a go and see what it was all about... see if they have more Gene Kelly music and stations related to Old Hollywood. Pandora does, but they're polluted by stuff like Jason Mraz.
<Wolfger> Gene Kelly; Jason Mraz.... I can see the similarities. ;-)
<snap-l> That's the big problem with these services
<snap-l> Just because I like Michael Brecker doesn't mean I love free jazz
<snap-l> Just because I like Einsturzende Neubauten doesn't mean I love Sonic Youth
<gamerchick02> no no no. Gene Kelly is not like Jason Mraz. Jason has some merits, but he ain't classic hollywood yo.
<gamerchick02> good point, snap-l
<gamerchick02> i like a wide range of music, but if i'm in the mood to listen to something, i want that something. not random pop hits along the way.
<rick_h_> ha love it, "Head advisory expires 8am"
<rick_h_> then I look, that's 8am the 20th
<rick_h_> 2 days from now
<snap-l> Yes
<snap-l> Hope you didn't want to get gas in the car.
<Wolfger> Really? It ends that soon?
 * Wolfger also wants to know if "head advisory" is a Freudian slip...
<brousch> I was just glad they extended it since I didn't notice any this morning
<gamerchick02> head advisory? what?
<gamerchick02> heat! heat!
<brousch> well that's less exciting
<gamerchick02> this channel has been really random today.
<gamerchick02> i like it.
<rick_h_> we get like that :)
<Wolfger> I heard on the radio this heat is expected until Sunday
<Wolfger> so not sure why the advisory expires sooner, but I'm hopeful
<Wolfger> current forecast on WeatherSpark shows the current temp persisting for 2 more days, then it gets *hotter*
<snap-l> Wow, and here's where the News of the World Hacking story gets ugly: http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/jul/18/news-of-the-world-sean-hoare
<Wolfger> My first thought: what an unfortunate last name.
<Wolfger> I can just imagine if he had any siblings, the other kids would be like, "He come the Hoares!"
<Wolfger> s/He/Here/
 * Wolfger really needs to stop broadcasting inappropriate thoughts on the basis he may or may not get a laugh...
<snap-l> ;)
<snap-l> Wow
<snap-l> CPU Temperature:  +120.2Â°F  (high = +149.0Â°F, crit = +203.0Â°F)
<snap-l> MB Temperature:   +145.4Â°F  (high = +113.0Â°F, crit = +203.0Â°F)
<rick_h_> ouch, that's a bit toasty man
<gamerchick02> LOL @ Wolfger
<gamerchick02> holy cow, snap-l, what are you doing?
<gamerchick02> advanced rendering or something?
<snap-l> gamerchick02: It's called "My office is 91F"
<gamerchick02> ugh.
<gamerchick02> sorry to hear that
<snap-l> and there's no good ventilation in there.
<snap-l> Yeah, no worries.
 * gamerchick02 sends fans
<snap-l> I'm in the bedroom where we at least have some AC
<gamerchick02> it's 89 F here.
<gamerchick02> but not in the house. AC is a gift from the gods... of science.
<snap-l> Yes, most assuredly
<snap-l> Unfortunately we're not gifted with Central Ac, which is truly the gift
<Wolfger> There goes gamerchick02, reinforcing my behavior by rewarding it with laughter...
<Wolfger> I was watching Daniel Tosh the other day, and I was really rather astounded at the realization that he's just up there saying more and more offensive things until barely anybody is laughing anymore, then he changes topics.
<Wolfger> and he points this out to the audience, but then he keeps the pattern up.
<Wolfger> and I'm thinking... I can do that job! :-D
<Wolfger> except I hate public speaking. I'll be the worlds first chat-room-only standup comedian.
<gamerchick02> :-D
<Wolfger> (yeah, like IRC isn't full of people who think they're funny)
<gamerchick02> i like your behavior
 * gamerchick02 sends money to wolfger. for your IRC comedy album!
<Wolfger> I think there's something wrong with me that when I hear news of some tragedy, I usually find (or look for) something that amuses me about it.
<gamerchick02> nah.
<gamerchick02> OT: I love leftover veggie trays. Just sayin
<snap-l> I'm not familiar with Tosh, but his promos really turn me off
<Wolfger> Anybody got the inside info to answer http://askubuntu.com/questions/53468/which-new-features-and-changes-are-planned-for-unity-in-11-10 ?
<ColonelPanic001> Daniel Tosh? he's kind of just usual "lol i said something non-pc" humor, but now and then, makes me laugh
<gamerchick02> I'v never heard of him
<gamerchick02> i like actual funny people though.
<snap-l> See, I don't find that funny
<Wolfger> snap-l: This was one of his concerts, not his "Tosh 2.0" TV show... I kept going back and forth between laughing out loud and meh.
<snap-l> I found it annoying and repugnant in Don Rickles.
<gamerchick02> hurr-durr lol BUTTS isn't funny anymore
<krondor> Tosh seems really quick witted, which I think is part of why he's appealing.  I think he would be good on a 'roast', but yeah it's usually shock humor.
<gamerchick02> shock humor doesn't do anything for me.
<gamerchick02> like i said above, lol BUTTS isn't funny anymore.
<ColonelPanic001> agree there, but a witty "BUTTS" can be funny
<_stink_> BUTTS
<ColonelPanic001> I have to be in the mood for it, but now and then
<ColonelPanic001> see? not witty
<ColonelPanic001> _stink_ stinks
<_stink_> hmm
<_stink_> my timing must be off
<_stink_> i'll try again later
<gamerchick02> i'm just saying... the shock humor isn't funny to me anymore
<Wolfger> George Carlin, FTW
<Wolfger> or Robin Williams
<gamerchick02> Carlin and Williams are funny. I just have to be in the right mood to listen to them
<Wolfger> the new names (Black, Tosh, whatisname) are all only good in moderate amounts
<gamerchick02> it's that way with most comedy
<snap-l> I like Lewis black
<snap-l> just watched a documentary on him this past weekend
<Wolfger> When I first heard him, I thought he was hilarious. Then I saw the show he recorded in Detroit and... meh
<snap-l> Yeah, he reminds me of a shock jock
<snap-l> You have to keep pushing the bar further and further or you stop being funny
<rick_h_> I don't know, a lot of comedy guys you have to be 'in the mood' for
<rick_h_> sometimes I enjoy it and others I'd go meh
<snap-l> Yeah, comedy is quite subjective
<snap-l> yay, conference call is done
<snap-l> nice thing about having a conference call in the bedroon: finally put away the clothes that were on the dresser. ;)
<_stink_> and, if it were me, wearing only underwear.
<snap-l> you assume I'm wearing pants
<krondor> Louis CK is my new god comedian, I think everything he does is funny
<snap-l> I've been enjoying the Daily Show's comedians
<krondor> Daily Show has been good for a very long time now
<gamerchick02> lol at snap-l re pants
<snap-l> I think the Berkely weather sation for Wunderground is full of shit
<snap-l> 79F my ass.
<rick_h_> lol, someone's hosing it down with the hose
<snap-l> Or it's in someone's living room
<snap-l> JoDee's at the mall with my mom. She sent me a picture of a drum table and asked me what it was
<_stink_> "A TROPICAL AIRMASS IS IN PLACE ACROSS SOUTHEASTERN MICHIGAN"
<_stink_> thanks National Weather Service!
<snap-l> I asked her why it wasn't in our living room
<snap-l> _stink_: I think we need to get Canada to aim their fans south to push down the arctic air
<_stink_> yes, i like it.  everyone call all of your Canadian friends
<_stink_> and if they live in Windsor, forget it
<snap-l> They can still help
<gamerchick02> tropical airmass?
<gamerchick02> nice.
<gamerchick02> +1 snap-l
<snap-l> buckle up for some storms
<rick_h_> yea, nice and dark here
<rick_h_> should help cool a bit
<snap-l> DOn't think so, unfortunately.
<gamerchick02> it says it's 71 here right now, so it did cool things off...
<snap-l> Getting some heavy winds over here
<snap-l> OK, computer going offline.
<snap-l> I want to know why it's always hot in this damn room.
<snap-l> Got the windows open, 75F outside
<snap-l> and still 92F on here.
<snap-l> Grr.
<snap-l> OK, maybe this will work
<snap-l> Have the vornado in the hallway pumping air into this room, and another fan in the window pumping air out
<snap-l> Heh, gotta love this
<snap-l> Comcast sent out a flyer with "Scan here with your smart phone to learn more about our ..."
<snap-l> so I scanned it with my iPhone and Google
<snap-l> and it identifies that it's a Microsoft Tag
<snap-l> Doesn't tell me more about whatever is encoded, just "that's what that is. I'm done"
<gamerchick02> wow. nice.
<snap-l> Well, so long Borders.
<snap-l> Off to liquidation-ville
<snap-l> FML
<snap-l> http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/ba1cefde-b185-11e0-af96-00144feab49a.html?ftcamp=rss#axzz1SV05aH2g
<gamerchick02> jesus h christ:
<gamerchick02> If you've logged into YouTube recently, you've probably noticed that
<gamerchick02> they're pushing their Rental service pretty hard. YouTube Rentals
<gamerchick02> brings full-length independent movies to YouTube, at a price -- the
<gamerchick02> videos come with Digital Restrictions Management (DRM). This
<gamerchick02> about-face goes against exactly what made YouTube useful in the first
<gamerchick02> place -- the unencumbered sharing of video.
<gamerchick02> this crap is what makes people not pay attention to the EFF
<gamerchick02> i unsubed from their stupidass emails
<snap-l> Was that the EFF or the FSF?
<snap-l> I think you have the EFF confused with the FSF
<snap-l> Defective by Design is FSF
<snap-l> * If you watch YouTube videos, help send a message against DRM by
<snap-l> refusing to "rent."
<snap-l> * If you share videos on YouTube, add this to your profile page:
<snap-l> "Thanks for checking out my videos. Please note: I don't use YouTube Rentals, and I hope you won't either. Here's one reason why: http://defectivebydesign.org/youtube-rentals"
<snap-l> * If you notice someone in the tri-county area renting a Youtube video, run over to their house and scream at the top of your lungs "DRM is bad. God hates DRM"
<gamerchick02> FSF
<gamerchick02> yeah
<gamerchick02> sorry
<gamerchick02> it's renting the goddamned video. i'm sure they have issues with netflix too because it's not "free"
<gamerchick02> and spotify. and pandora. and last.fm
<gamerchick02> do they hate radio too? and TV? and anything that's not totally "free" software?
<snap-l> * If you notice that Youtube is renting pornos, immediately hop onto BitTorrent and download every single porno movie by that actor / actress / studio, and announce on IRC that you're doing so. Tell them you're sending a message to the Man. A long, sensual message.
<snap-l> Also announce when you're finished. Downloading.
<gamerchick02> haha, snap-l
<snap-l> (And make sure to keep your client up, you fucking leech)
<gamerchick02> i'll put them all up on mediafire too.
<gamerchick02> or is that wrong because it's not FREE as in FREEDOM?
<gamerchick02> FSF pisses me off sometimes. they're just as bad as those funeral picketers. >_<
<snap-l> Eh, I wouldn't go that far
<snap-l> I don't think they would picket a funeral
<snap-l> and if they did, they'd lose all credibility
<snap-l> I'm just not a fan of the "holier than thou" attitude
<snap-l> It's one thing to promote freedom
<snap-l> it's quite another to be obnoxious about it
<snap-l> "Look at me. I'M leading a pious life"
<gamerchick02> nobody leads a pious life.
<gamerchick02> at one time or another, you'll cave and listen to an mp3.
<gamerchick02> or break down and get netflix.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-07-19
<rick_h_> yay, django vs sqlalchemy ranting in full effect
<rick_h_> light the pitchforks!
<rick_h_> where you get great posts that start with: "Having only used the Django ORM and never used SQLAlchemy, ..."
<rick_h_> *sigh*
<rick_h_> geeze, people all loving the django orm __ based filter crap. Ugh
<snap-l> Ugh
<snap-l> Yay, upgrade gave me grub errors
<snap-l> fucking hell
<Blazeix> oof, what were you upgrading?
<snap-l> Um, Ubuntu Natty.
<snap-l> Apparently there's some EFI removal that occurs.
<snap-l> Yay, and it's really fucked
<snap-l> bitching abouot blocklists
<snap-l> I love it when Ubuntu completely fucks me
<Blazeix> wow, just a routine natty upgrade? That's scary
<snap-l> WEll, it was a kernel upgrade
<snap-l> Whelp, time for a fucking re-install
<snap-l> (yay)
<snap-l> Looking forard to re-downloading everything from Ubuntu One. That should be fuuuuun
<_stink_> :/
<snap-l> Great... re-install and upgrade completely fucked my machine again
<snap-l> So, that's awesome
<snap-l> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+source/linux/+bug/800910/comments/3
<snap-l> I am really getting sick of this shit
<snap-l> I mean, we ask people to help test this shit, and then abandon them when the new release shows up
<snap-l> Frankly, this is complete bullshit.
<rick_h_> morning
<Wolfger> morning
<Wolfger> snap-l: Yes, it is complete bs
<Wolfger> One of the biggest reasons I'm in favor of a rolling release. That will totally end the "we'll fix it (maybe) in the next release".
<rick_h_> it's not all roses and sunshine in rolling release land either
<rick_h_> but yea, come to the dark side and realize that Ubuntu isn't all it's cracked up to be any more
<Wolfger> well, no, but it's better
<Wolfger> especially when the rolling release allows you to accept upgrades at a "testing" or "stable" level, and also allows you to say "no matter what, I want to stay on version x.y"
<rick_h_> you still end up with broken x.y
<Wolfger> or "no matter what, I don't want version x.y"
<rick_h_> that happens now, you have to keep up with the rolling or else you'll end up with some combo of broken packages/nested deps
<Wolfger> sure, that is possible
<Wolfger> BTDT
<Wolfger> but it was better than this
<rick_h_> but a bug like the one up there seems a bit big and should be fixed backwards
<snap-l> Finally got it working last night
<snap-l> It's not a hard fix, but it's also not intuitive what needed to be done
<snap-l> I don't think rolling releases would help Ubuntu at all
<snap-l> but I do think that 18 month support should include fixing shit that broke during said 18 month span.
<snap-l> There was a fix committed in there, but it hasn't been released yet. Oneiriieiciiieirieiierieec has a fix released.
<rick_h_> well glad you're running
<snap-l> well, barely
<snap-l> grub is still very unhappy with me
<snap-l> but at least it boots.
<snap-l> Also, searching for hwmatch got me an ad for a Jehovah's Witness dating site
<snap-l> jwmatch
<Wolfger> :-D
<Wolfger> don't let Jodee find out you are going there...
<snap-l> Don't worry. ;)
<snap-l> OK, now things are a little better. Re-installed grub-efi, and it appears to have fixed itself
<snap-l> Man, what a pain
<snap-l> I'm not so mad that it happened, as I'm mad that I didn't know how to fix it initially (and did a reinstall because of it)
<snap-l> and I'm mad that it was implied that it wasn't going to be fixed at all
<Wolfger> Awesome. Now everybody can look up Marilyn Monroe's skirt.... http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/gallery?Avis=C4&Dato=20110715&Kategori=ENT&Lopenr=107150802&Ref=PH/Marilyn-Monroe-statue-Chicago
<rick_h_> hah, whoops, ctags just hit a 3G db dump file
<rick_h_> that hung it for a few
<greg-g> heh, oops: http://artfair.org
<rick_h_> Service Temporarily Unavailable
<rick_h_> ?
<greg-g> yeah, it is the Ann Arbor Art Fair website, that starts this week (downtown is already all closed off to allow the setup)
<brousch> FML. laptop hard drive died
<rick_h_> brousch: bummer :(
<greg-g> brousch: ugh, sorry man!
<snap-l> brousch: Ugh
<greg-g> ok, everyone, backup your sh!t now. The Michigan LoCo is experiencing a high level of tech failure. You have been warned.
<rick_h_> hah, so true
<brousch> i left it in the car last night. it must've melted
 * rick_h_ runs through repos doing git push
<rick_h_> ooh, yea nasty weather for gear outside
<greg-g> brousch: eek, yeah, and the humidity
<brousch> it boots to grub, but grub looks abnormal
<brousch> it is surrounded by @ symbols
<snap-l> brousch: Did you do an upgrade recently?
<brousch> taking bets on whther i can recover files i left on the desktop instead of in dropbox
 * Wolfger worries about having his gear in the car all day after he checks out of the hotel
<brousch> snap-l: the HD is very loud, so i'm sure it's the problem
<Wolfger> I cannot afford to have my laptop die
<snap-l> brousch: Ah, that's indicitive. ;)
<brousch> lots of clicking and grinding
<greg-g> :(
<snap-l> That's pretty strange though. WOuldn't think a HDD at rest would be subject to heat.
<brousch> yeah, it was hi9bernating, so i didn't worry about it
 * Wolfger proposes a test: stick snap-l's laptop in a sauna for 8 hours, see if anything bad happens
<snap-l> Wolfger: Only if you'll keep it company
<brousch> i should've sprung for the SSD
<Wolfger> snap-l: I'll be taking periodic "dive in the pool" breaks. Should I leave your laptop in the sauna, or take it with me?
<snap-l> Wolfger: No, you won't either. No breaks. That's the point. ;)
<Wolfger> difference being, you think the HDD isn't subject to heat. You know I am.
<snap-l> ;)
<brousch> crap. i'll have to move back to the macbook pro until i get a new drive
<brousch> i'm using my ancient work desktop now. ubuntu 10.04 was so nice
<jrwren> snap-l: WSSE? define please?
<snap-l> SOAP security envelope
<jrwren> snap-l: SOAP is now done via the WCF library instead of asmx, so google "WCF WSSE" and there are lots of ways to make it work.
<snap-l> jrwren: Oh, I'm sure.
<snap-l> I'm not a C# expert, though
<snap-l> What's interesting is the person I'm supporting seems to think that because whatever he's chosen doesn't support WSSE, we need to expose libraries that obviate the need for WSSE
<snap-l> if not, he'll have to patch so far down as to be not worth the trouble.
<snap-l> Which kills me because he obviously knows what he's doing, but is getting so tied up with requiring the library to support things.
<jrwren> it supports WSSE trivially from the looks of those blog posts
<jrwren> just write a simple client that consumes teh wsse service adn send it to him.
<snap-l> jrwren: Which blog post are you reading?
<jrwren> frenchcoder.com
<jrwren> are you doing wsse plain text over http adn not https?
<snap-l> http://www.frenchcoder.com/content/wcf-ws-security-hell ?
<snap-l> We're using https
<jrwren> oh, then that doesn't apply.
<snap-l> Yeah
<jrwren> http://blogs.msdn.com/b/appsec/archive/2007/03/04/wcf-supporting-tokens.aspx  passing additional security tokens to a service  ??
<snap-l> Erm, not sure. Not seeing the XML out of it.
<snap-l> jrwren: Appreciate the help, but at this point I think it's up to the developer to figure this stuff out.
<jrwren> snap-l: yup, refer him to me if you want.
<jrwren> and if it continues, let him and his boss know that I'm available for consulting.
<snap-l> Thanks. ;)
<jrwren> if you want to give 'em a map, here is a page : http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa738565%28VS.85%29.aspx
<snap-l> Wow.
<snap-l> I don't think he can claim poverty for security support.
<jrwren> right.
<jrwren> and the library (WCF) is extremely extensible. so he could write his own support if needed (although might not be easy)
<snap-l> See, this is what I wish Java did
<jrwren> it does.
<jrwren> you were just using the wrong java library.
<jrwren> use Axis2 instead.
<jrwren> only idiots at giant corps use the shit OOTB with JDK
<snap-l> My biggest problem was using wsdls to generate code.
<snap-l> which uses the OOTB Java foo
<jrwren> i think axis has their own WSDL code gen tool
<jrmy> hey guys been awhile
<jrmy> i was wondering what computer language i should learn if i want to make a website but at the same time to write an irc channel and/or server, whichever is needed first
<jrwren> hi jrmy
<jrwren> jrmy: as many as possible.
<jrwren> jrmy: depends on who you ask. I think here people will tell you python.
<jrwren> and give those two requirements (and only those two) I agree.  python.
<jrmy> yeah
<snap-l> If you're looking for a good all-purpose language that won't bite back too hard, I'd say Python
<jrmy> heh, guess i should of learned it back a year or so ago
<brousch> to make a website you need html, css, and javascript (if it's fancy)
<jrwren> just keep in mind, its like you just said "money is no object, what car should I buy if I want to move my and my dog from point A to point B"
<jrwren> you are going to get lots of varying answers./
<jrwren> do you know any computer languages now?
<jrmy> no
<jrwren> then my answer does not change :)
<jrmy> just had an idea and decided i want to pursue it
<jrmy> decided figuring out what i need is teh first step
<jrmy> if it doesnt end up working though.. i dont know how i'll take that
<jrmy> suppose its always worth trying
<jrwren> do you have any inherent interest in any lang before you asked?
<brousch> there are pre-built irc servers, so it's unlikely you actually need to write your own
<jrmy> well for this use i'd need to be able to have multiple irc channels.. and if the site became successful i'd need thousands
<jrmy> or not...
<jrmy> idk.. still in theory on how it works
<jrmy> dont think its been done though
<jrwren> use an OOTB irc server.
<jrwren> don't reinvent the wheel.
<jrwren> unless you are just doing it to learn and play, then by all means,
<jrwren> but if you are doing it for production, make the right business decision
<jrmy> whats a OOTB irc server?
<jrwren> OOTB=out of the box
<jrmy> right
<jrmy> suppose i need an example
<snap-l> you may also be talking about an IRC bot
<snap-l> are you looking to host your own IRC service, or just have something that you can program to respond to people?
<jrmy> why dont i just explain what i want to make
<snap-l> that would be awesome. ;)
<jrmy> lol
<jrmy> well its for fear that someone else might take the idea and make it happen but whatever
<jrmy> at least it could be made and i could use it
<jrmy> but uh.., basically a message/status posting website mixed with irc
<snap-l> jrmy: If you fear that someone will make something that you make, let me disabuse you of that notion
<snap-l> few things are so novel that nobody has thought of them before. ;)
<snap-l> so something like twitter that posts to IRC?
<jrmy> so you can post messages on one hand when no one else is on and chat with irc when people are in your circel of friends
<jrmy> circle*
<jrmy> so like a better chatting system if you look at facebook
<snap-l> Interesting, so a mash-up of Google Plus but with an IRC interface?
<jrmy> i dont like straight  IMing
<jrmy> yeah
<jrmy> ive thought about it before
<jrmy> but never thought about wanting to make it
<jrwren> so like chat.stackexchange.com ?
<jrwren> or do you mean more like campfire ?
<jrmy> at first glance no.. not like chat.stackexchange.com
<jrmy> you have a profile and you can talk in irc
<jrmy> but the irc is where its probably complicated to program
<jrmy> say you can talk to everyone youre connected to like in facebook and google+
<jrmy> except its not with instant messaging but everyone else alos has this feature
<jrwren> so you want to write twitter but more realtime?
<jrmy> but with both
<jrmy> but also having them seperate
<jrwren> i'm lost.
<jrmy> but integrated
<jrmy> as it would be teh same site
<snap-l> I think you want to write Google Plus, but with text chat instead of hangouts.
<jrmy> possibly
<jrmy> idk it might not work as well as i'd think
<jrmy> perhaps not everyoen would want to be in a chatroom with everyone on their friends/following list
<snap-l> jrmy: Well, it's about the equivalent of saying "I'd like to learm to program games. I'm going to write warcraft"
<jrmy> i like teh idea though
<jrmy> the*
<snap-l> It's a big task
<jrmy> yeah
<jrmy> but perhaps rewarding
<snap-l> Not saying you couldn't, but there's a lot of moving pieces to it
<_stink_> gawd, after all that work, i hope it's rewarding
<jrmy> lol
<jrmy> thats why im contemplating it
<jrmy> maybe i should ask my friends if they'd want to build it with me
<jrmy> though doing something like this would be stupid in the first place
<snap-l> jrmy: Do they know any programming languages?
<jrmy> one of my friends know a little of python the other works at a liquid web
<snap-l> jrmy: I wouldn't say it's stupid, I'd say that it's the equivalent of someone wanting to know what time it is, and deciding to build a pocket watch from scratch.
<jrmy> lol
<snap-l> jrmy: OK, so there's some folks that can help you.
<jrmy> well we all start small
<snap-l> true
<jrmy> but i suppose whatever i want to do of the relevant interests which is electronics i generally would need to learn some programming
<snap-l> Well, there's something you can do for electronics
<jrmy> at least to understand how it would work if i didnt write teh code
<snap-l> It requires a little mone, though
<snap-l> money, though
<jrmy> yeah
<Wolfger> FTL: help desk via India. FTW: Sexy-sounding young Indian lady with hot British accent.
<jrmy> lol
<snap-l> http://www.makershed.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=MSGSA&CartID=0
<snap-l> jrmy: ^^
<jrmy> i shall bookmark that one
<snap-l> it uses a language called "Processing" which is very easy to pick up
<jrmy> what do robots usually have?
<_stink_> souls
<jrmy> lol
<snap-l> jrmy: depends on the robot.
<jrmy> who makes the.. is it toyota?>
<snap-l> Asimov was made by Honda
<jrmy> i forget who makes robots but is a big company
<jrmy> ah maybe theres a couple
<snap-l> There's a bunch of robot companies out there
<jrmy> i suppose python works either way
<snap-l> again, robot means anything from small toys to large industrial robots.
 * Wolfger needs to get back to^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^h start his TwittRC project
<jrmy> i just need to get off my ass and learn some python
<jrmy> thats the jist of things
<Wolfger> I had big plans to make an app that essentially turns any Twitter hashtag into an impromptu IRC-style chat room (though not actually IRC)
<Wolfger> There are two groups I know of already using hashtags like this. I'm sure there are many more.
<jrmy> i dont even know what an impromptu is
<Wolfger> and no app that I'm aware of really does this
<Wolfger> impromptu =~ spur of the moment
<jrmy> thats what i get for hating english class...
<jrmy> figures
<jrmy> maybe i should join a community college for robotics
<_stink_> jrmy: i may have said this here before, but the only way in my experience to learn to write code is to (1) pick something you want and (2) try to write it.
<_stink_> if you try to write something you don't want yourself you'll never do it.
<_stink_> and realize going in that it will take you a long time and you won't even use the code you write at first, because it will suck.
<_stink_> so you'll rewrite it at least once.
<_stink_> but that's the only way, as far as i can tell.
<snap-l> _stink_: ++
<_stink_> so pick the coolest thing you can think of and just try to write it.  start from the very beginning just write.
<snap-l> I'd also recommend getting a book and starting to learn the language
<_stink_> +1
<snap-l> type in the examples, or you'll never learn the language.
<jrmy> thought i suppose i'll need material to make it work if its for a robot
<_stink_> snap-l: hey, i had a coworker ask me this yesterday - is there a good book for a current C++/Java programmer to learn python?
<_stink_> those o'reilly books are scary huge.
<snap-l> _stink_: Yeah, they are.
<snap-l> I used Dive into Python initially
<snap-l> it's a little concise, though
<snap-l> and somewhat confusing at first
<_stink_> i'll point him to it, thanks.
<brousch> jrmy: Lansing Python Group is just getting started http://www.meetup.com/Python-Lansing-User-Group/
<snap-l> I do like Learning Python, but I'd recommend getting the electronic version
<Wolfger> I'm giving http://learnpythonthehardway.org/ a try
<_stink_> oh yeah, i have another friend that's trying that
<_stink_> never looked myself
<snap-l> Partially because electrons have no discernable mass on my computer, and because O'Reilly has some awesome deals on their ebooks.
<_stink_> and you can search it, i hope :)
<snap-l> Yeah, they're not pricks with DRM
<jrmy> wel i guess whatever i do i shouldnt do it alone.. im no tony stark
<jrmy> lol
<jrmy> man is it hot.. brb getting a fan and some water
<jrmy> should i read my atari booklets and stuff to learn? i have some old stuff that my grand father owned
<jrmy> might be a bit archaic
<_stink_> don't bother
<_stink_> with that
<_stink_> although it has awesomeness of history
<jrmy> yeah i thought they were neat
<jrmy> ive got the instruction booklets of a few games and some 2 issues of a magazine
<jrwren> twittRC? does that tweet when you drink rc cola?
<jrmy> the 1st and 4th isue
<jrwren> my advise: stop chatting and go learn python :p
<jrmy> but i dont have a book to read yet
<jrwren> http://www.diveintopython.org/  here just read on the web.
<jrwren> you don't need to buy a book.
<jrmy> ok a recommendation was all i was looking for
<jrwren> http://www.diveintopython.org/toc/index.html
<jrwren> chapter 1 is installing... so if you have it already, start with chatper 2
<jrmy> had it but ive gone thorugh a few computers so not anymore
<jrwren> on linux, you have it.
<jrwren> on windows... i guess start with chapter 1 :)
<jrmy> yeah been using windows.. havent found a use for linux though
<snap-l> The more programming you do, the more use for Linux you'll find.
<jrwren> no offense, but... then why are you here?
<snap-l> but that's for a later date. Start with that.
<jrmy> lol.. because i know i cant find geeks anywhere else
<_stink_> yep, i installed linux for the first time to write code at home for CS classes.
<jrwren> excellent answer :)
<jrmy> besides theres no such thing as a windows community well at least i dont think there is.. and if there is theyre probably a bunch of douche bags
<brousch> Windows communities don't hang out in IRC. They all have Yahoo groups
<jrwren> there are lots of windows communities.
<jrwren> even on irc.
<jrwren> there are windows channels here on freenode.
<jrwren> #ntmojo on ars irc also comes to mind.
<jrwren> STFU and code.
<_stink_> o/
<snap-l> Our manifesto: http://programming-motherfucker.com/
<brousch> i was talking to the calvin college CS dept head yesterday. he mentioned this http://scratch.mit.edu/
<brousch> he's running a camp for 6th graders using that
<brousch> you build programs by putting blocks together. it's designed for animation and music
<jrwren> i ahte those.
<gamerchick02> brouch, that sounds like fun. too bad i never had that kind of camp when i was in 6th grade. i went to girl scout camp
<jrwren> although I guess some people are visual
<jrwren> but this idea that EVERYONE is visual and that dragging things makes it easy is ASSININE.
<jrwren> if that is what I was shown at 6yo I would have not got into programming
<Wolfger> jrwren: should I call it THC instead?
<Wolfger> Twitter Hashtag Chat
<brousch> well if i remember right, jrmy is a musician and gamer, so i thought it might appeal to him
<jrmy> ah
<jrmy_> i dont know but i think it disconnected me.. whatever
<jrmy> ok so the browser based irc wasnt working for some reason
<jrmy> so i downloaded a irc client..
<jrmy> also im thinking of getting a copy of ubuntu on my desktop as soon as i get a new video card 'cause the python interface isnt of my liking for windows
<jrmy> unless thats just what 3.2 looks like
<jrmy> that and i dont understand why print isnt working
<_stink_> jrmy: hmm, i'd see what the others say, but i'd stick with 2.7 for now
<_stink_> but i might be off the python coolness
<brousch> python interface?
<jrmy> ok
<jrmy> yeah its black
<jrmy> white text
<jrmy> looks like windows command prompt
<brousch> you mean the windows command line?
<jrmy> no im running python
<jrmy> guess i'll get 2.7 and see if there is a difference
<brousch> you are running an interactive python session
<jrwren> stfu and code :p
<jrmy> lol
<brousch> there will not be a difference in colors
<jrmy> ah
<jrmy> ah.. yeah im suppose to run IDLE
<jrmy> thats why..
<brousch> ug, idle
<jrmy> maybe..
<brousch> go for it
<jrmy> idk im lost..  do i type print "hello"?
<brousch> anything else will require downloads and pain
<jrmy> 'cause its not working
<jrmy> whatever im getting 2.7
<jrwren> steep learning curve. keep trying. stfu and get your learn on
<_stink_> yes
<_stink_> what jrwren said
<rick_h_> lol jrwren
<jrmy> how old is the "dive into python"?
<jrmy> if doesnt seem to be a command
<_stink_> a command?  it's a book you can get online.
<jrmy> no if.. returns as a syntax error in python
<jrmy> so i dont even
<jrmy> at least in 3.2
<jrmy> im sure they changed things
<jrwren> its a statement, not an expression
<jrwren> but that is compsci langauge details that shant concern you.
<jrwren> you are doing it wrong :p
<jrmy> http://paste2.org/p/1528591
<jrmy> it told me to put this in python or whatever and it gets an error
<jrmy> so thats why im asking about the age of teh documentation that i was recommended
<jrwren> I think that is meant to be in a file.
<jrmy> should that run in idle?
<jrwren> maybe this book is not beginner enough.
<jrmy> i guess not
<jrwren> http://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide/NonProgrammers
<jrwren> http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Non-Programmer%27s_Tutorial_for_Python_3.0 maybe?
<jrwren> yes.
<jrwren> I'd say study that last link for a day or two and then move onto diveintopython
<jrmy> ok
<brousch> is dive into python updated for python3?
<snap-l> yes, there's a version for Python 3
<brousch> http://diveintopython3.org/
<rick_h_> don't learn on python3 yet
<rick_h_> imo
<snap-l> so sayeth rick_h_, so say we all.
<jrmy> oh
<jrmy> so... 2.7?
<jrwren> why wouldn't you do python3?
<jrwren> its been around for YEARS
<brousch> no web frameworks
<jrwren> who cares?
<brousch> someone who plans to build a web site
<jrmy> im sure by the time i'll use it, it will
<jrwren> bah... ok... see all this b.s. is why I don't do python... learn C#!
<jrmy> i'd use a language for robots anyways
<brousch> but then you have to use ASP, which is as pleasant as ramming a rusty fence post up your pooper
<jrmy> maybe not a website
<rick_h_> jrwren: because there's next to no where to deploy py3 to
<rick_h_> and yea, the only py3 valid web is cherrypy
<snap-l> OK, I think this is going into the weeds.
<snap-l> There's enough overlap between Python 2.7 that when you decide to migrate to Python 3.x, it'll be smooth
<snap-l> so I'd recommend learning 2.7 for now
<jrwren> asp.net mvc is EXCELLENT.
<jrmy> so should i learn 3.2 or not?
<rick_h_> it's the rest of it that sucks
<jrwren> i don't even know what brousch is talking about wrt "ASP"
<snap-l> concentrate on this first, and don't worry about if what you're learning is going to be immediately applicable
<jrmy> i have it installed starting to read it..
<snap-l> jrmy: Just focus on 2.7 for now
<rick_h_> the whole "windows server" part, the whole "wooo IDE joy!" part, and the whole "might I get some dev licenses please sir?" part
<jrwren> jrmy: I'd focus on whatever you can find the most docs for.
<jrwren> the differences are so little that it shouldn't matter until you are deep into things as a python master.
<snap-l> jrmy: What you really need to learn is the fundamentals of development and programmer focus
<snap-l> Think of it not as learning a skill, but learning a process
<jrmy> whatever.. im just gonan read and learn 3.2
<snap-l> like learning how to meditate.
<jrwren> really?  learning a process?
<jrwren> oh, you just mean that it never ends.
<snap-l> jrwren: yes
<jrwren> that is true of anything, if you want to make it true.
<snap-l> I learned BASIC as a child, and while I don't use BASIC now, it taught me how to focus and think about development
<jrwren> sadly, it ends far too soon for too many devs ;(
<jrwren> MMMmmmm BASIC.
<jrwren> LET A$ = "hi"
<jrwren> or was it $A ?
<snap-l> A$
<jrwren> what was the string syntax on TRS80 ?
<jrwren> A$. good.
<snap-l> Under Atari Basic, you didn't need the LET
<jrwren> right.
<jrmy> i wish i were born in an earlier time or if my parents were just rich
<snap-l> just DIM A$(100)
<jrwren> didn't on newer TRS80 BASIC
<jrwren> but it was always part of the language grammar
<jrmy> seeing as id probably already know all of this stuff
<jrwren> [LET] var = value
<snap-l> jrmy: Stop worrying about what other people did
<snap-l> Focus on the now
<jrmy> seeing as my grandfather had an atari which i own now
<jrwren> jrmy: did you have a game console growing up?
<snap-l> you have the tech now to program
<snap-l> you have the materials now to program
<jrmy> i had a snes
<brousch> yes rich parents mean their children are born with the sum of all human knowledge
<jrmy> lol
<snap-l> you are a product of now, so please FOCUS.
<jrmy> i might of owned a computer is what im saying
<jrwren> so you had parents of plenty of wealth to buy an SNES... they just got you the wrong things :p
<snap-l> jrwren: Oh FFS, just let the boy code.
<jrwren> true.
<brousch> i didn't do anything with computers until college, 19 years old
<jrwren> STFu and code.
<jrmy> lol
<brousch> now i have the skills to troll jrwren until his eyes bleed
<jrmy> well at least i had teh interest to use ubuntu and meet you guys for helping me learn a language
<jrwren> lol @ eyes bleed... i'm picturing the vampires in True Blood
<Wolfger> snap-l: I'm pretty sure it was $A
<Wolfger> and you forgot the line number
<Wolfger> BASIC required line numbers, so you had something to GOTO to
<jrwren> zomg! I did forget the line number.
<jrwren> Amiga Basic 1.2 spoiled me.
<jrwren> not all BASIC required line numbers.
<Wolfger> C-64 BASIC is the One True BASIC
<jrwren> some BASIC was structured and had subroutines.  Amiga Basic 1.2 & 1.3 <3
<jrwren> wahtever... C64 BASIC is shit.
<Wolfger> 10 PRINT "Hello World"
<jrwren> no drawing primitives.
<Wolfger> 20 GOTO 10
<jrwren> Atari 800XL BASIC was WAY better.
<snap-l> <3 Atari Vasic
<Wolfger> Let us not forget LOGO on the Apple II CS
<jrwren> i only did LOGO once.
<Wolfger> I had a class in HS that taught us LOGO
<snap-l> I have a LOGO cart. :)
<jrwren> cart for what platform?
<Wolfger> LOGO would be an awesome language for programming a robotic cart....
<snap-l> Atari 8Bit
<snap-l> That and PILOT
<Wolfger> what was that you were saying about going into the weeds?
<Wolfger> ;-)
<snap-l> heh
<Wolfger> So, long story short: Python 2, stfu and program
<jrmy> wb
<jrmy> both
<gamerchick02> sorry had to restart
<jrmy_> i think i want to hire a programmer instead of trying to lear the code.. just be the engineer and build teh machines
<jrmy_> mechanics imo is easier to learn
<Wolfger> everybody needs to find what they're good at, and stick to it.
<Wolfger> That's why I'm a smartass. :-D
<jrmy_> lol
<jrmy_> i do liek robots though
<jrmy_> i'd love to buidl some
<jrmy_> but the programming looks to difficult and time consuming
<ptenhoopen> jrmy_: Me too
<jrmy> hard to say if i could find anyone to do the programming for me
<jrmy> at least i'd rather have a friend then someone i pay to write code
<jrmy> but i just got lost reading a bit of the tutorial in the very beginning, so it seems to be a little overwhelming
<jrmy> steep learning curve indeed
<jrmy> really dont know what to do
<jrmy> need to do something with my life
<jrmy> cant keep playing viddeo games.. i'll end up doing nothing some more
<Wolfger> ...and suddenly the "Find My Purpose" song from Avenue Q pops into my head...
<jrwren> great, you've become that douche that every programmer hates, that tries to get people to code for free.
<Wolfger> LOL
<jrmy> lol
<jrmy> well not for free
<jrwren> any idiot can have an idea. executing and bringing it to life is the hard part.
<jrwren> "EQUITY" is free.
<jrwren> because... if you can't learn to code, how the fuck are you going to learn to run a business?
<Wolfger> jrwren: aren't all of us in the FLOSS community "that douche"?
<jrmy> idk i guess i need to find a programmer that wants to make robots but cant buidl worth a crap
<jrwren> only the non coders.
<jrmy> or say screw robots for now and pursue my music career
<jrmy> seeing as ive had almost 10 years of experience with music
<jrmy> actually played a show this month too
<jrmy> but my band breaks up because our bassist has a contract to be a professor in texas for at least a year
<jrmy> antropology i think is his field
<Wolfger> you can't find another bassist?
<jrmy> anthro*
<jrmy> bassist for metal that are actually good?
<jrmy> no
<jrmy> you study peopel in that field right?
<jrmy> people*
<rick_h_> jrwren: ah, thanks for reminding me why I had this guy on /ignore
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> oops
<jrmy> sucks to not fit in anywhere btw
<jrmy> idk whatever guess im out.. perhaps i'll talk again if i have any nerd questions or not.. theres always google
<snap-l> Because every problem gets solved by bitching at it.
<Wolfger> LOL
<Wolfger> "I don't use Linux, and I don't plan to, but you guys are nerds and can help me, right?"
<Wolfger> "Wow. I've tried to learn programming for 15 whole minutes now, and I just can't program a robot yet. This stuff is too hard."
<snap-l> yep
<Wolfger> so incredibly hard, he'll go and find a nerd "friend" to do it for free
<jrwren> that is the same guy from a month or so ago?
<snap-l> Several months ago
<jrwren> *sigh*
<jrwren> I didn't connect the two until now.
<jrwren> i wouldnot have fed teh troll so mcuh
<Wolfger> I remembered seeing him before. Forgot how lame he was.
<jrwren> we are very welcoming :)
<jrwren> but I think stfu and code is a good motto :)
<Wolfger> indeed
<snap-l> And of course nobody is going to want to be the first to break the silence after "SFTU and code".
<_stink_> every time i hope his light bulb goes on.  then it doesn't.
<rick_h_> :)
<snap-l> Wow, holy netsplit
<snap-l> Man, my Sansa really is slow copying
<rick_h_> http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/19/reddit-co-founder-charged-with-data-theft/
<rick_h_> um, wow
<Wolfger> _stink_: open the fridge door...
<snap-l> wow indeed
<Wolfger> ugh. The lame "stealing is stealing" argument again
<Wolfger> stealing means you take something, and then the original owner no longer has it.
<Wolfger> copying something is not theft
<Wolfger> reading something is not theft
<snap-l> Copying things that are not for general consumption is... ?
<Wolfger> illegal, but not theft
<snap-l> breach o f privacy, no doubt
<Wolfger> tresspass
<Wolfger> if I view a movie online without permission, that's like sneaking into the theater... I haven't stolen the movie, though I did watch it without paying for it.
<Wolfger> I just hate it when they try to persuade people it's wrong via calling it something it isn't.
<Wolfger> If I remove the hard drive from your server, I've stolen your data. If I hack into your computer and copy all the files off your hard drive, I've committed computer tresspass.
<Wolfger> trespass
<Wolfger> I always want to put too many s's into that word
<Wolfger> notice, he's not charged with theft ;-)
<brousch> rick_h_ scared off jrmy while i was gone?
<Blazeix> or jrwren, either way, I'm fine with that.
<brousch> i was really surprised with how patient jrwren was with him
<Wolfger> stfu&c
<_stink_> yeah
<Wolfger> :-)
<_stink_> and i think stfu&c is now an unofficial motto here
<brousch> i can't. i'm still bringing my system back to life :P
<brousch> wait, it's done installing. now i need to stfu and copy 200GB of crap
<brousch> jrmy makes me weep for the future
<rick_h_> now imagine he's your co-worker
<_stink_> and lives in NC? :)
<rick_h_> the thought crossed my mind
<rick_h_> today I'm getting to try to teach that javascript is in fact code
<rick_h_> and you can make classes, and wrap function calls
<Blazeix> dude, JS is for hacking stuff that you can't figure out how to do server side
<_stink_> yeah
<Blazeix> Ideally you'd only use it when you can't figure out how to do it with ASP.NET Webforms
<rick_h_> ah, that sounds right
<greg-g> I still can't believe that aaronsw is 24
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea, nothing makes me feel old like successful damn kids
<greg-g> effing eh, he's done so much in those 24 years
<rick_h_> Blazeix: yea, so I guess trying to describe the facade pattern in JS is just too much
<rick_h_> after all, there's no jquery function for that
<greg-g> Worked "with him" on a project while I was an intern at CC, a joint project with the internet archive
<rick_h_> $('button').facade();
<rick_h_> https://twitter.com/#!/jezdez/status/93375233087639553
<rick_h_> *sigh* I hate django
<snap-l> How the fuck is that trolling?
<rick_h_> https://twitter.com/#!/jezdez/status/93376115363676161
<jrwren> I didn't know taht the reddit guy was a founder of demand progress. that is a great PAC
<snap-l> I swear, some days I just want to disconnect the internet and... well, be off the internet
<rick_h_> lol
<snap-l> Seriously, not everyone has a sacred geode that needs acknoledging
<jrwren> *sigh*
<brousch> hm, i was actually in #pocoo (Flask) yesterday talking to them about my pyohio presentation. alex gaynor was in there too
<rick_h_> yea, he's all over the place
<rick_h_> he's working for quora now, crazy
<rick_h_> pypy, django, etc
<jrwren> quora is built on pypy & django?
<rick_h_> no, quora is built on pylons and they're checking out using pypy vs cpython on it
<snap-l> I <3 my boss
<rick_h_> uh oh
<snap-l> she's all freaking out and forwarding this little meet up mail that I sent for coverage to these other managers
<snap-l> call was done in 15 minutes
<snap-l> including all of the smalltalk
<Wolfger> so.... the other managers all dialed in after it was over?
<greg-g> btw, aaron's response: http://demandprogress.org/aaron
<snap-l> I hope they do
<rick_h_> greg-g: my only thing is that where does he say wtf he was doing downloading it all?
<greg-g> it doesn't
<Wolfger> greg-g: Interesting. I was about to sign the petition, but he looks so bloody guilty in that photo ;-)
<greg-g> Wolfger: :P
<Wolfger> rick_h_: does it matter?
<rick_h_> Wolfger: yea, I think intent is a big deal
<snap-l> What are we petitioning now?
<rick_h_> I mean he didn't sell the stuff
<rick_h_> but did they just catch him before the final act?
<rick_h_> not that I think bad things about hte guy
<rick_h_> but it sounds a lot like getting caught sneaking cady from the 7-11, but since I hadn't walked out yet, it's ok it's in my pants
<Wolfger> I think all that matters is that the "victim" is asking for charges to be dropped and saying he didn't do anything wrong.
<greg-g> ugh, must. do. other. work. can't. get. sucked. into. this
<rick_h_> lol
<_stink_> greg-g: no!  blog now!
<greg-g> _stink_: NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
<_stink_> if you don't do it now you'll lose hits.
<snap-l> Man, what's up with the world?
<rick_h_> it's falling over
<snap-l> First Newscorp, now reddit... all of the big news organizations getting taken down.
<rick_h_> hadn't you heard?
<Wolfger> the world sucks
<Wolfger> ....
<Wolfger> did he just call Reddit a "big news corporation"?
<snap-l> What next, Internet? 4chan?
<rick_h_> sounds like he's not been involved in reddit in some time though
<rick_h_> the whole "reddit cofounder!" is a bit of news blowing uppity
<snap-l> Right
<snap-l> It's the "why should I care about X"
<snap-l> "Important man has something happen" "important to who?"
<Wolfger> Yeah. Same thing happens to Joe Blow, nobody cares.
<Wolfger> stupid celebrity-worshiping idiots
<greg-g> except this is big news in the circle of people who care about copyright, access to knowledge, libraries, and publishers
<ColonelPanic001> I heard reddit and came running
<Wolfger> greg-g: yes, but it should be big news regardless of who it was
<Wolfger> $1M and 35 years in prison for no harm done....
<brousch> damn. no response from my old hd
<brousch> this will make it a long recovery
<_stink_> your old harddrive is just screening calls
<_stink_> call from your cell
<greg-g> Wolfger: it *is* big news regardless of who it was.
<snap-l> greg-g: Right, but it gets legs because of who it is
<snap-l> If it was just joe random-student, it wouldn't have gotten nearly as far.
<greg-g> on the contrary, look up the Diebold DMCA case
<greg-g> at the time, those kids were just some random students
<greg-g> (full disclosure: I'm good friends with Asheesh Laroia, who was heavily involved, to put it midly)
<snap-l> greg-g: Not terribly coparable
<snap-l> Diebold going after some group of students over voting machines was enough to get noteriety
<greg-g> The government going after a person who JSTOR already said "don't prosecute" is news in and of itself
<snap-l> If some student got indicted for downloading documents, that would get play on Schnier and Techdirt
<snap-l> It wouldn't get the same play
<greg-g> funny thing is this isn't on TechDirt yet :)
<greg-g> instead, it is everywhere else: http://news.google.com/news/more?pz=1&cf=all&cf=all&ncl=dGlAPFJp2lYoaOM4SurZDouf5YPdM
<greg-g> and the stories usually lead with "harvard university fellow" or leave out Reddit all together
<snap-l> Techdirt tends to be more reserved about blowing it's wad
<greg-g> hehe, yeah
<greg-g> plus, he had his own legal threat to deal with today
<snap-l> Awesome
<snap-l> Seems between Bitcoin trademarking and monkey photos, Techdirt has been targeted a lot lately
<snap-l> I've been loving the monkey photo case, btw.
<snap-l> If there's anything to make DMCA look foolish, it's gotta include monkeys.
<Wolfger> monkey photo case?
<Wolfger> I heard something about this, but really have nfc. What's it about?
<snap-l> http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110714/16440915097/photographer-david-slater-claims-that-because-he-thought-monkeys-might-take-pictures-copyright-is-his.shtml
<snap-l> Wolfger: ^^
<snap-l> http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110706/00200314983/monkey-business-can-monkey-license-its-copyrights-to-news-agency.shtml
<_stink_> awesome
<greg-g> yeah, that is a fun one
<jrwren> i support aaron.
<jrwren> just becuase he used wget in a way MIT and JSTOR didn't expect, does not make him guilty of lawbreaking.
<jrwren> and if he is... law should change.
<jrwren> they are running a smear campaign against aaron, just like they did assange, because he is dangerous.
<jrwren> demadn progress got too powerful
<greg-g> interesting theory
<jrwren> i want to know wtf the grand jury was thinking.
<jrwren> and who the hell his shitty defense lawyer was.
<jrwren> or i guess it could be a complaint indictment
<snap-l> I need a new job.
<jrwren> blacklist Carmen M. Ortiz
<snap-l> Boss just sent me a note that she's sorry that she's still in a meeting
<snap-l> and apologized for not joining.
<snap-l> The meeting that was 15 minutes... about 1 hour ago.
<snap-l> (*sigh*)
<jrwren> although this is a fun story.  "entered a computer wiring closet"  <-- who hasn't done this?!?
<jrwren> oh wait.
<jrwren> shit, forget I said that ;]
<greg-g> hah, and now Anonymous members have been arrested, big news day :)
<greg-g> jrwren: :)
<jrwren> a shitty day for freedom :(
<jrwren> IMO they are all freedom fighters adn we are worse off now.
<rick_h_> meh, they sure seemed to pick off easy targets and just wreck havoc vs any sort of real freedom fighting
<rick_h_> "oh look, my script found that xxx is able to be hit via sql injection, let's think up a reason to piss on them"
<jrwren> i anonymous case sure.
<jrwren> but aaron shartz's actions were much more powerful IMO
<rick_h_> was there a post with more reasoning?
<rick_h_> sorry, half following channel
<jrwren> just facts AFAICT
<jrwren> http://kottke.org/11/07/aaron-swartz-indicted-on-charges-of-wire-fraud-computer-fraud-etc
<jrwren> i want to know wtf MIT doesn't lock its closet doors.
<jrwren> IMO its MITs fault for not appropriately securing their net
<rick_h_> oh please, so the guy walks around planting gear on the network and he's ok?
<jrwren> opinions like imajoebob @ http://crookedtimber.org/2011/07/19/aaron-swartz-indicted/ make me sick.
<jrwren> its not illegal.
<rick_h_> I don't get that. "Well, work doesn't block porn sites so I thought I could bitorrent it all to my laptop I brought in onto the wireless"
<jrwren> also not illegal.
<brousch> jrwren: and it's your fault you were raped for wearing that slutty dress
<jrwren> although you'll probably lose your job.
<jrwren> brousch: strawman. useless. stupid.
<rick_h_> meh, it's clear he knew he was messing around
<rick_h_> the whole "I didn't think I'd get caught" is for the birds
<jrwren> its not illegal to conciel your activity or to plug into a network jack.
<jrwren> find me a law he broke.
<jrwren> I can't wait to see how this plays out.
<rick_h_> it is illegal to get a hold of material he didn't pay for
<jrwren> huh?
<rick_h_> if I get a hold of the itunes music library and don't resell it doesn't mean I'm not illegal
<jrwren> it is?
<greg-g> if anything it is a breach of a TOS
<jrwren> criminal copyright violation... yeah, I guess so.
<rick_h_> "well, the truck with all the stuff wasn't locked. So I just parked the truck in my driveway, nothing's missing thogh so we're cool"
<jrwren> rick_h_: strawman. useless. stupid.
<greg-g> and potentially (C), but I'm not sure if what he downloaded was protected by copyright or not
<rick_h_> saying MIT should have bio security network closets is stupid
<jrwren> a locked door with a key would at least make it breaking and entering
<jrwren> soudns like they don't have locked doors!!!
<jrwren> I never said bio sec.
<jrwren> I said lock the door
<rick_h_> no, they've got security cameras and sign in
<rick_h_> that he evaded
<jrwren> I didn't read that.
<jrwren> link please.
<jjesse> w/ bike helmet according to the kotke article
<jrwren> concieling identity with a bike helmet is not illegal.
<jjesse> so he must have known he was doing something "wrong"
<rick_h_> it was the link you sent me
<jjesse> otherwise why hide?
<jrwren> zomg, I wore a hate and sunglasses, so I must have known I was doing something "wrong" its not illegal.
<jrwren> american's have no sense of thier own rights. it makes me sick.
<jjesse> hat and sunglasses is different than having a bike helmet
<rick_h_> I just mean that a lock != security
<jrwren> jjesse: he has a right to hide himself.
<jjesse> block your face and using the venilation holes to navigate
<rick_h_> having a process/policy can count
<jrwren> rick_h_: legally, I think it is.
<jrwren> rick_h_: legally its B&E.
<rick_h_> ok, then fine
<rick_h_> then he B&E knowingly and is a douche for that :P
<jrwren> it will plea out and we will never know how the law falls on these things.
<jrwren> IMO, he is a hero.
<rick_h_> ok, well I want your respect, so I'm going to see if I can B&E into my network cage here and get me some good files. brb
<jrwren> lolz
<snap-l>  /me would liek to remind everone of his hay allergies
<snap-l> HACHOOOOOO
<snap-l> too many strawmen in here
<jrwren> is that what it is this week? my allergies have been going NUTS since sunday... either that, or I've got a  cold
<snap-l> referring to the arguments in here. ;P\
<greg-g> just in case you all didn't see JSTOR's comments: http://about.jstor.org/news-events/news/jstor-statement-misuse-incident-and-criminal-case
<jcastro> hey rick_h_ you use instapaper right?
<jrwren> whoa, it was a MA grand jury!
<snap-l> jcastro: I use instapaper.
<jrwren> wow, a good lawyer would have a field day with this.
<jrwren> i hope it gets thrown out.
<jcastro> how do you save a bunch of pages at once?
<jrwren> https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/217115-20110719-schwartz.html
<snap-l> One at a time
<snap-l> I'm not sure what you mean, though.
<jcastro> so basicall I want to put this entire thing on my kindle: http://www.unet.univie.ac.at/~a0000265/Spec/Beasts.html
<snap-l> Oh man
<snap-l> The only way I now of is to use something like ... what the hell is the nameof that program that begins with a C
<snap-l> creates eBooks
<jcastro> calibre
<snap-l> calibre
<snap-l> Yeah
<snap-l> and it'll look like shit once it gets there
<snap-l> Nice, almost done syncing with Ubuntu 1
<snap-l> Pro tip: use a wired cable. ;)
<greg-g> as apposed to an unwired cable?
<snap-l> wifi, fool. :)
<greg-g> :P
<jrwren> wifi sucks.
<jrwren> i use wired whenever possible.
<rick_h_> jcastro: not any more, I just use bookie
<greg-g> word, bookie's readable is pretty nice
<rick_h_> I want to spend some time getting some default css on there soon to help clean it up a bit
<rick_h_> but that's for 0.4
 * greg-g nods
<snap-l> How do you use ipython as a debugger?
<snap-l> IU'm not having any luck with %run -d
<snap-l> Ah, figured it out
<snap-l> %run -d script.py
<snap-l> Also realizing that using h as a vairable is pretty dumb
<brousch> man, 10.04 is so nice. why are we getting rid of it again?
<snap-l> brousch: progress
<brousch> the only good thing about dead hard drives is that it gives me another chance to practice installing eclipse+aptana+pydev+android dev+eclipse plugin
<Blazeix> ouch
<snap-l> Yeah, that's... um... bonus?
<brousch> android dev has many layers, like an onion
<brousch> oh, and phonegap
<greg-g> ok, where is the bug report for Unity where it complains about windows going all the ef over the place when you go from dual monitor to single?
<jcastro> snap-l:
<jcastro> http://www.thinkpads.com/2011/07/19/new-thinkpad-x121e-released/
<jcastro> ...
<jcastro> smoser: man, I just can't catch a break
<jcastro> the intel-only one of that is probably badass. :-/
<jrwren> but i3 1.3Mhz? that is a dog.
<jrwren> its target market is mac book air alternative?
<Dekkard> heh
<Dekkard> if that is a dog... what is a p111 800?
<rick_h_> earthworm
<Dekkard> that is still to advanced..
<Dekkard>  its a prion
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-07-20
<greg-g> rick_h_: what is your montly data usage on your phone?
<greg-g> snap-l jcastro ditto ^
<snap-l> I have no idea
<snap-l> Mine is a company phone, so I don't get the bill
<greg-g> ah, gotcha
<rick_h_> greg-g: I'm about 1GB a month
<rick_h_> I try to stay on wifi though
<rick_h_> wife is around 300MB/mo
<jcastro> mine is 1.6ish total
<rick_h_> and that's not tethering, I've not done tethering in a few months since I went to arch
<rick_h_> not set it up yet, so that's just music streaming, web, podcasts, etc
<jcastro> lol
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> thanks all
<jrwren> i think i'm like 200MB/mo. often less.
<jrwren> also no tethering, just a tiny bit of web on phone & stupid stuff like 4sq
<rick_h_> jcastro: posted on your monitor arm thread in G+. Let me know if you want some pictures from the rear or anything on those
<jcastro> you think a galant's wood would be enough to hold them?
<jcastro> I am concerned about snappy breaky
<rick_h_> I'm using them on the jerker replacement
<rick_h_> works fine here
<jcastro> ah
<rick_h_> they clamp onto the low shelf above the laptop dock
<jcastro> oh, that little looking one?
<jcastro> seems like alot of weight
<jcastro> but if it works on the jerker then mine should be fine
<rick_h_> I can get some movement on the monitor, but it's the desk not the arms
<rick_h_> the monitors aren't that heavy these days
<rick_h_> and it's pretty spread out, the clamp is really large as well
<rick_h_> spreads it out
 * jcastro nods
<rick_h_> but yea, no fear of breaking the lovely fake wood
<jcastro> heh
<jcastro> I am just debating it 3 seperate or one mega-array is the best way to go
<rick_h_> so I went separate first so that I could move full range
<rick_h_> but also, I can reuse them
<jcastro> yeah
<rick_h_> if I get a display too big, I can make one for the wife
<rick_h_> or take it into the office, etc
<jcastro> plus I can do some panels lengthwise if I want to
<rick_h_> I've got a big one at the office that does two and it's just big and kind of ugh
<rick_h_> yea, my left display is portrait
<rick_h_> kind of liking that on it
<rick_h_> but the only thing there is that you tend to look down/up and the colors can be off if the monitor doesn't have a great angle range
<rick_h_> amazing how tall a 22" display can be
<rick_h_> https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-dEP9D6kaw-8/TW-8UGbn5HI/AAAAAAAAArE/_1BIs442hrA/s144/IMG_20110303_110148.jpg
<rick_h_> is my work best thing
<jcastro> hmm
<rick_h_> https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-M2Ppncph0yc/TUwgxPjjniI/AAAAAAAAAqE/QugoA_jz8T4/s144/IMG_20110204_105123.jpg and a better shot when I just had two of the arms
<jcastro> how do you rotate one monitor in X?
<rick_h_> /best/beast
<rick_h_> xrandr --output DP1 --mode 1280x1024 --rotate left
<rick_h_> the --rotate does it
<jcastro> does that work with nvidia?
<rick_h_> xdock: aliased to xrandr --output LVDS1 --off --output DP1 --mode 1280x1024 --rotate left && xrandr --output VGA1 --mode 1920x1080 --right-of DP1
<rick_h_> no idea, this is intel
<rick_h_> ^^ is the full dock xrandr command I have aliased for both displays
<jcastro> aha
<jcastro> 	Option	"RandRRotation"	"on"
<jcastro> and then xrand -o left
<rick_h_> cool
<jcastro> -o normal -o right -o inverted
<jcastro> sounds perfect
<rick_h_> right
<rick_h_> but I like those arms enough to get 3 of them, cheaper than some of those with better range of motion, but good compromise for the price imo
<rick_h_> and <3 arms, nice to have the shelf space/better adjustment
<snap-l> rick_h_: I think you're on what's called a Frederik, right?
<rick_h_> snap-l: yea
<rick_h_> that sounds about right
<snap-l> It's about the same thickness as a a Gallant
 * snap-l is way too expert on Ikea desks. ;)
<rick_h_> yea, I mean it's about 1" thick wood matter
<snap-l> Doug from Music Manumit told me to check out thie metal band on the WFMU podcast
<snap-l> They play CC music on there.
<snap-l> This is the band http://www.jamendo.com/en/album/45007
<snap-l> Check the review. ;)
<rick_h_> awesome
<snap-l> I get around (oh-wee do do do do wee do do)
<rick_h_> sshhhhhh
<_stink_> yeah
<snap-l> Yeah, no kidding
<brousch> i love how quickly i can recover from a dead HD
<brousch> it took about 3 hours to install the os and all the programs i need, then overnight dropbox synced across the lan
<rick_h_> nice
<snap-l> http://plaintextoffenders.com/
<snap-l> This is a site that shames sites that use plain text passwords. ;)
<snap-l> rick_h_: That SQLAlchemy vs Django's ORM page is pure gold
<rick_h_> snap-l: yea, great write up
<rick_h_> reminds me of the bash vs zsh stuff
<rick_h_> "Look, they can both do this and that...but only zsh can do YYY"
<snap-l> Yeah, it's great because it's clear where each has strengths without being snide
<rick_h_> yea, he's good at that
<snap-l> http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2011/07/mac-os-x-lion-a-visual-introduction.ars?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss
<snap-l> Christ, Apple's got Unity now.
<rick_h_> pretty much
<snap-l> Also, the scrollable list of mails on the left paradigm for mail? Hate.
<snap-l> Williek13: Not sure if you can read this, but you keep connecting and disconnecting.
<Williek13> sorry about that...I'm on the outskirts of wireless connection in my office at work...I drop and gain connection all day
<Wolfger> \o/  I'm finally back
<Wolfger> Lost connection before I could send my witty reply to rick_h_  :-(
<Wolfger> re:"sshhhhhh" I was going to say that we all decided to stfu&c finally.
<snap-l> Man, my boss is driving me insane
<snap-l> She's a project manager, in the "what are you doing right now" sort.
<Wolfger> "what are you doing right now?"  "Taking time out of doing something productive to give a status report"
<Wolfger> ...or, "Nothing. Why?" :-D
<snap-l> Well, she's looking for me to give a presentation to "knowledge share" what it is that I do
<snap-l> to a bunch of people who fucking developed the system
<rick_h_> .lol
<rick_h_> "knowledge share" I can appreciate
<rick_h_> "what you do" seems a bit of an interesting combo with that
<snap-l> What do I add to this? I sit on a forum and answer developer questions
<snap-l> about THE SHIT THAT YOU ALL DEVELOPED
<rick_h_> "I protect you from stupid people, you can send cookies to: xxx forest road..."
<snap-l> I had a call yesterday with my second-level support about forum coverage. I flat out told him "yeah, and if you run into a problem, you'll want to escalate with [his name here]
<snap-l> I mean, this is not rocket science
<snap-l> About the only special sauce I've added to this is writing some test code in Python
<snap-l> and actually figuring out some things that some of the customer developers didn't know (ie: that you can't send everything as application/octet-stream and expect a phone to do something useful with it)
<Wolfger> Out-of-context quote of the day: "That child could be doing so much more with his life, instead of walking around with a cock in his hand, waiting to fight"
<Wolfger> http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/07/19/washington.dog.fighting.vick/index.html?hpt=hp_bn4
<snap-l> Wolfger: Heh
<snap-l> That's a beaut
<snap-l> "To see the young kid walking with the cock, you know, was astonishing," Vick said. "It was taking place in a similar setting of what I've been around before.
<jcastro> greg-g: lol nm, last month I used 2.6gb
<jcastro> jill used like ..... 200mb
<jcastro> hmmm, I better preload my U1 music while I am on wireless
<greg-g> jcastro: gotcha
<greg-g> jcastro: I'm looking at the various plans and trying to optimize everything, it is so freaking hard!
<rick_h_> greg-g: welcome to the pita that is firstworldproblems
<rick_h_> now you nkow why everyone just wants an unlimited plan regardless of actual usage
<greg-g> yeah, looks like sprint is the only true unlimited plan there is
<greg-g> everyone else throttles you after X amount
<jcastro> greg-g: what carrier are you on?
<greg-g> right now, sprint, but I'm a free agent
<jcastro> ok
<jcastro> well, I am on an unlimited family plan on Tmo
<jcastro> it's like $130 for the 2 of us (after taxes and all that crap)
<brousch> nice, alot cheaper than verizon
<jcastro> well, it's a euro-style plan
<jcastro> cheaper per month, full price on phones
<greg-g> yeah, verizon is looking like the most expensive one right now, from my research last night
<brousch> we have 700mins talk, "unlimited" data on vzon for like $175/mo after fees and taxes
<rick_h_> yea, it is
<jcastro> you can go more cheaper per month on contract
<rick_h_> I moved there, but best phones/service
<jcastro> but screw that
<_stink_> yeah, we're $155 on AT&T for 2 lines, data, 700 mins
<jcastro> brousch: I have unlimited data, 1500 minutes
<jcastro> but we don't come close to the minutes
<brousch> 700 was the fewest they would give us. we use about 70
<_stink_> hah
<jrwren> ouch
<jrwren> although we are probably about the same.
<jrwren> maybe I won't get a new smart phone.
<jrwren> maybe I'll go back to dumb phone
<greg-g> jcastro: how's tmo with throttling after their soft cap?
<jrwren> save some $$$
<jcastro> I don't think I've hit it
<greg-g> gotcha
<jcastro> it's ok, since you're on tmobile you're on edge alot anyway. :p
<greg-g> lol
<jcastro> berkley is like a huge deadspot for me
<jcastro> but I hear it's nice and 4g on the west coast
<greg-g> see, I'm looking for something that I can use on the road trip out there for conf calls, email, gps, and basic web
<greg-g> jcastro: berkeley, ca?
<jcastro> no, MI
<jcastro> I hear it's awesome in CA
<greg-g> cool
<brousch> yes, we have 4g
<brousch> though i don't own a 4g phone
<brousch> i went with vzon because they have much better coverage outside of the west MI cities
<brousch> so when i visit family in ravenna and fremont, i still get 3g
<brousch> ATT fails there
 * greg-g nods
<jrwren> 4g phones are pretty rare, aren't they?
<jrwren> pretty great world when 3g is considered failing.
<snap-l> OK, so I had a discussion with my boss, and cleared things up
<snap-l> Also, the whole data cap thing for phones is stupid
<snap-l> I'm really sick and tired of things like bandwidth being charged as though they were gold nuggets
<snap-l> greg-g: You might want to go with a tracfone for the move
<snap-l> just to get your bearings and not commit to a contract
<snap-l> tie that in with a Google Voice number so folks can get a hold of you.
<Wolfger> Bandwidth is worth its weight in gold. And then some. Considering it weighs nothing....
<snap-l> Well, I'm not going to begrudge them profit for bandwidth
<snap-l> but what I hate is the incessant capping as though it were something like water or electricity
<snap-l> or minutes on a phone
<snap-l> I don't get cut off of my phone service because I talk too much
<snap-l> they gladly charge me for overages if there are any
<snap-l> curious what unlimited voice would look like if someone called someone and left the phone off the hook for 24 hours, 7 days a week
<snap-l> that would be an interesting case for someone to try
<Wolfger> Not on AT&T...
<Wolfger> carrier would drop
<Wolfger> :-D
<jrwren> ITS A SERIES OF TUBES!
<Wolfger> it's totally tubular, dude
<snap-l> Seriously, it's like the AOL $BUGNUM hours free that exceeded a month
<snap-l> unlimited has a very strange meaning nowadays.
<snap-l> Like the buffet "all you can eat" which becomes "all I think  you should have"
<snap-l> Hmm, there's some oddball color management on this thinkpad
<snap-l> seems whenever I bring up a window, it'll try to balance things out
<snap-l> rather disconcerting when I bring up something that's all green.
<Wolfger> snap-l: all-you-can-eat has a bandwidth cap. They will only bring it to your table so fast....
<Wolfger> I deal with that at my local restaurant on Friday AYCE Perch...
<Wolfger> they bring 6, and I ask for a reorder instantly, then they bring 3 more and i reorder again, they bring 3 more....
<Wolfger> and I wind up with a lot of time spent waiting for food, rather than eating food
<snap-l> Wolfger: That's because they're hoping you'll fill up
<Wolfger> and they're right
<snap-l> because it takes about 10+ minutes for your body to adjust
<_stink_> now i am extraordinarily hungry
<Wolfger> because they leave a freaking bread basket on the table
<snap-l> a-yep
<Wolfger> and while I'm waiting for more fish, I have a breadstick
<Wolfger> or 2
<snap-l> so you eat cheap bread instead of expensive perch
<Wolfger> or 3
<Williek13> if you drink water with the bread it doesn't expand as much as soda etc
<Williek13> fills u up less
<Wolfger> ?
<Wolfger> I'm going to Mythbusters with that one...
<Williek13> i remember reading it somewhere....I think it was on the hotdog eating contests
<_stink_> i love those guys
<_stink_> and gals
<Wolfger> ok... I think that's really a gas of "water isn't carbonated, so it won't make you feel bloated"
<Williek13> yeah i think your right
<Wolfger> s/gas/case/  sheesh
<_stink_> you have gas on the brain.
<Williek13> out of curiousity...anyone have any experience with EMC for Lynix?
<snap-l> My only experience with EMC is that it's fast, and you pay for the privilege
<Williek13> i ment the CNC software? (Enhanced Machine Control)
<Williek13> is that what you were referring to snap?
<snap-l> No, I was referring to the storage company
<snap-l> http://www.emc.com/products/category/storage.htm
<snap-l> Interesting, didn't realize that iomega was now part of EMV
<snap-l> EMC, even
<Williek13> ah ic...sorry should have been more specific
<snap-l> np
<Wolfger> http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/07/20/leopard-killed-after-mauling-six-in-india/?hpt=hp_c2
<Wolfger> I particularly like picture #5, in which the man in the foreground has run right out of one of his sandals... Like he could actually outrun the cat?
<Blazeix> wow, those images are stunning
<Wolfger> I totally did not get today's Google doodle at all. I'm so glad you can click it to Google the explanation. :-)
<jrwren> EMC is fast?
<jrwren> that is laughable IMO.
<jrwren> scalable informatics stuff is fast and a fraction of the price.
<jrwren> I guess EMC COULD be fast if configured well. IME its usually not configured well.
<snap-l> jrwren: Well, it's faster than just hooking up some drives via USB. :)
<jrwren> omg.
<jrwren> USB???
<jrwren> who would do that?
<Wolfger> snap-l would...
<Wolfger> XD
<greg-g> if all you have a USB connection on your laptop, I guess any reasonable person would :)
<Wolfger> Yes, for laptop storage space, USB drive is the way to go
<rick_h_> esata *cough*
<Wolfger> $$$ *cough*
<rick_h_> http://www.amazon.com/Acomdata-Tango-2-5-Inch-Enclosure-TNGXXXUSE-BLU/dp/B001XHBNN2/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1311182476&sr=8-3
<rick_h_> yea, $20, so $$ vs usb
<snap-l> Too ugly.
<snap-l> Also need an esata connection on my computer
<rick_h_> lol, there's no diff in the esata vs usb external disks, tons do both anyway
<snap-l> and needs to be purple.
<snap-l> And match my decor
<snap-l> and make people go "oh, ah" when they enter my lair.
<Blazeix> and work with his new macbook air.
 * snap-l looks for the $60 Mac version
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> on both accounts
<Wolfger> rick_h_: One thing stands out to me on that page.... "You Save: 	$0.02 " WTF?
<Wolfger> LOL
<snap-l> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003B4CVYA/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=decafbadnet-20&linkCode=as2&camp=217145&creative=399373&creativeASIN=B003B4CVYA
<snap-l> THere we go
<snap-l> This one says "Hi, let's play with your data."
<rick_h_> yea, I carry 3 of those with my laptop everywhere I go
<rick_h_> never play with your data
<snap-l> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0013LRLUM/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=decafbadnet-20&linkCode=as2&camp=217145&creative=399369&creativeASIN=B0013LRLUM
<snap-l> I'd need a matching Mac Pro to go with this
<rick_h_> ah, that's good, a 50% mac looking tax
<snap-l> Hey, aluminum isn't cheap
<snap-l> I mean really, do you you want your peripherals to look like crap?
<snap-l> I don't
<rick_h_> they're not room decoration
<rick_h_> put them under a shelf
<rick_h_> or behind a picture frame
<snap-l> You should do an image search on ugly PC cases
<snap-l> there's a few that are priceless.
<snap-l> also, says you. my hardware is decoration
<snap-l> only because the room is so damn small. :)
<snap-l> and I like good looking hardware. Always have. I hate those plastic piece of shit cases that some PCs hve that look like they were the love-child of Optimus Prime and a toaster
<rick_h_> everything should be black and rackable
<Wolfger> Hey, I like Optimus' love-child
<jrwren> rick_h_++
<jrwren> also, its why I bought a 640GB disk in my laptop 2 yrs ago :)  I don't need extra laptop storage space
<greg-g> until it crashes on you
<greg-g> then you want that external backup
<jrwren> i backup to NAS whenver I'm home.
<jrwren> gigabit is almost a nice as esata.  definitely better than USB
<brousch> We should all be backing up to UbuntuOne
<jrwren> sounds $$$$
<brousch> $3/mo/20GB i think
<Wolfger> grrr
<Wolfger> I have "self" loathing
<Wolfger> who ever thought "self" was a good idea?
<ptenhoopen_> brousch:  That's all when and good but then you hit your ISP's bandwidth cap.
<ptenhoopen_> Or they throttle you so when you want to restore it, it takes 3 months!
<brousch> that's when you go to GRPUG and shlepp off of calvin ;)
<ptenhoopen_> Comcast is starting to cut off people's access for exceeding their caps.
<brousch> or sit in metro's lobby for a day and use their oc3
<ptenhoopen_> They give 1 or 2 warnings and then ban you.
<ptenhoopen_> That's an idea
<ptenhoopen_> One guy was banned for a year.
<ptenhoopen_> Ridiculous!
<brousch> but really it's just the initial upload that's a problem, unless you generate a ton of data yourself
<ptenhoopen_> That's true of course.
<brousch> you can also use your work internet
<ptenhoopen_> Sometimes
<ptenhoopen_> Not all systems are laptops!
<ptenhoopen_> Anyway, just saying.
<ptenhoopen_> Everyone has a cloud solution but the ISP puts the breaks on it.
<brousch> bastards
<snap-l> Well, that's a nice little lesson
<snap-l> rebooted my machine remotely, but unfortuantely it hangs
<snap-l> Wow, there's some really interesting ideas in OSX Lion
<snap-l> very radical
<brousch> other than the unity ripp-offs?
<snap-l> Yeah, like saving files automatically, and using version control to manage changes between versions of documents
<snap-l> and automatic termination, so you don't have to care what's running, and if you're nearing running out of memory, it'll terminate unused applications until you go back to it
<snap-l> extremely interesting ideas.
<brousch> your new mac air is the mail already?
<ptenhoopen_> The memory management sounds like Android.
<snap-l> Heh, not really
<snap-l> Yeah, it's borrowing a lot from iOS
<snap-l> Also sandboxing applications
<snap-l> Earlier, the Mac App Store was suggested as a way Apple might expedite the adoption of new Lion technologies. In the case of sandboxing, that has already happened. Apple has decreed that all applications submitted to the Mac App Store must be sandboxed, starting in November.
<Blazeix> oh, didn't they have that file snapshot thing already?
<Blazeix> I thought that was built into their filesystem or something
<snap-l> Well, this is taking something like time machine and adding another layer
<snap-l> so you don't necessarily have to save the document, it's just saved
<snap-l> and you can go back versions of that document
<krondor> snap-l:  how is that memory management different from android?  It reads exactly like android to me... I'm trying to find some detailed links to get more info
<snap-l> krondor: I think you misread me. I was saying "Not Really" to brousch's Mac Air comment
<krondor> snap-l:  ahh got it, scrollback misfire
<snap-l> The memory stuff is interesting. They're forgoing garbage collection
<snap-l> instead they handle it compile time.
<snap-l> so there's no separate thread going around freeing memory.
<krondor> that is interesting
<snap-l> Yeah, pages 10 and 11 of the Ars Review cover that
<snap-l> pretty interesting stuff
 * krondor should have thought to check ars first before hitting apple and google
<snap-l> Yeah, they have a really good review
<snap-l> one of those reviews that makes me want to subscribe
<jrwren> taht is not true.
<jrwren> there is still GC
<snap-l> jrwren: reference counting is not GC
<jrwren> no no.
<jrwren> i mean GC is optionally there for devs.
<jrwren> apps not using it is not uncommon, most C/C++ apps don't use GC
<snap-l> Correct, but they're making it so that you don't have to use GC.
<snap-l> This is in the Objective C code
<jrwren> i don't understand your statement.
<jrwren> you've never had to use GC
<snap-l> Did you read the article?
<snap-l> http://arstechnica.com/apple/reviews/2011/07/mac-os-x-10-7.ars
<jrwren> yup.
<jrwren> and much of what teh author is b.s.
<jrwren> at least from a dev POV
<snap-l> explain, please.
<jrwren> not sure who this guy is, but it seems like he is not a dev.
<snap-l> the most I've seen of Objective C is some hello world examples.
<jrwren> i've written iphone apps :)
<jrwren> its typical ARS stuff, injecting crazy conclusions based on no evidence pointing to them.
<jrwren> but that is typical of devs too I guess. They hear something is new so assume the last thing that was new is now old.
<jrwren> like my obj-c guru friend says... using the release pool is not hard :)
<jrwren> in fact, after reading the dev centric stuff on that ARS lion review and knowing how wrong it is, I can't trust anything else in that article, so I'll skip his similar speculations on the filesystem and otehrs.
<snap-l> jrwren: That's pretty harsh.
<jrwren> its a matter of trust.
<jrwren> i honestly feel that i cannot trust this person.
<greg-g> jrwren: that last point "easy to learn" on http://whygitisbetterthanx.com/ is false. Git is *not* easy to learn. BZR is much easier.
<greg-g> jrwren: at least to my feeble mind
<jrwren> disagree via experience.
<jrwren> i did bzr first, then git.
<jrwren> and 3 yrs ago, yes, bzr was easier.
<jrwren> but git docs and command ahve come a LONG way
<jrwren> and git encourages certain workflows, which once you grok them, REALLY do make great sense
<jrwren> and once you grok them, going back to hg or bzr from git is not fun.
<greg-g> hmm
<snap-l> Yeah, I have to agree
<snap-l> git makes good practices very easy
<snap-l> ie: branching
<snap-l> Nice... this rest service requires XML.
<snap-l> shoot me
<jrwren> lots of rest responses are xml.
<ColonelPanic001> <action type="gunshot">BANG!</action>
<snap-l> Are lots of rest requests XML?
<snap-l> ie: essentially posting XML to a rest URL?
<snap-l> Because I need directions here in bizarro-world.
<FireZen> !
<snap-l> rick_h_: Turntable.fm is hiring.
<rick_h_> well so much for getting our group on the 'calendar'
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-07-21
<greg-g> which calendar?
<snap-l> Caribou
<greg-g> ah, right, suck, saw that tweet from rick_h_ :/
<snap-l> Yeah, it's sorted now. :)
<snap-l> good morning
<rick_h_> morning
<greg-g> morning morning
<brousch> morning morning morning
<greg-g> another hot ass day, and this time, I don't get to work in the AC'd office. The chiller system that cools 5 buildings on campus broke yesterday. The undergrad library has been closed from 6pm last night and won't open until 10am saturday.
<rick_h_> ouch
<rick_h_> greg-g: time to work from a local 7-11. Slurpees and frige units for all!
<Wolfger> woot
<Wolfger> I could really go for a Slurpee right about now
<rick_h_> greg-g: any thoughts/experience on roof rail vs trailer hitch for bike carrier?
<snap-l> rick_h_: HIGHLY recommend not using the roof rack
<snap-l> unless your car has one built-in
<rick_h_> I do have a roof rack already
<rick_h_> just would be adding the rail systems to the rack for the bikes
<snap-l> Do you have a trailer hitch already?
<rick_h_> the sled or whatever you want to call it
<rick_h_> yea, have a hitch as well
<snap-l> Go with the hitch, for one reason and one reason only:
<rick_h_> I like the idea of the roof sleds, but I already have a top cargo box, so can't use both
<snap-l> "I wonder if I can clear that..." is generally a recpie for disaster.
<rick_h_> but like the idea of trailer + bikes up top
<rick_h_> lol, good point, hadn't thought of that one
<greg-g> rick_h_: I liked the roof idea at first but after crashing my bike into a parking ramp structure I decided I didn't like it anymore
<greg-g> rick_h_: since my receiver is a 1 1/4" and I have a 2" bike carrier, the added length of the converter makes it so I can open up the back hatch without moving the bike carrier
<brousch> you can get bike hitches that also let you have a trailer
<Wolfger> any idea how the spare-tire-mount works? (i.e. "great" or "horrible", no smartass comments about the physics of it :-p )
<rick_h_> greg-g: ok cool, thanks. I just needed to be talked out of the roof and I think that seems to be the general idea
<rick_h_> greg-g: just don't like the ones with 1 1/4 hitch?
<greg-g> rick_h_: my parents gave me their old one which was a 2"
<rick_h_> ah, ok
<rick_h_> Wolfger: what spare tire mount?
<greg-g> so, no, would probably have rather had compatible one, but, this is a nice side-effect of the converter
<snap-l> http://decafbad.net/2011/07/21/official-business/
<rick_h_> the bike, car, trailer?
<Wolfger> http://www.google.com/products/catalog?client=gmail&rls=gm&q=jeep+bike+rack+spare+tire&safe=active&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=18414148731131870363&sa=X&ei=TxUoToOILdCPsAL06aE7&ved=0CH4Q8wIwAQ
<greg-g> Wolfger: I've seen them used a lot, so I would imagine for 1-2 bikes they'd be fine
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea, I had seen one that had a pivot pin I was going to hceck out
<greg-g> yeah, those are nice
<rick_h_> Wolfger: ah, I get nervous with those things
<rick_h_> I guess they work, but I like things that bolt vs strap
<greg-g> they're are straps that you tie it down with, no?
<greg-g> right
<greg-g> metal ftw
<Wolfger> Oh, sweet. More expensive, but promising: http://www.quadratec.com/products/92034_20_07.htm?sgsc=QSHOPGBASE&utm_medium=compshop&utm_source=googlemerchant
<Wolfger> bolted spare tire mount
<snap-l> I have a strappy tire rack that's still in the box
<snap-l> er, bike rack, rather
<greg-g> btw, re the Aaron Swartz/JSTOR/DOJ story: http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/6554331
<snap-l> Nice
<snap-l> I had fun yesterday explaining this story to my dad
<snap-l> He was under the impression that Aaron was going to sell the data
<greg-g> oh I bet
<greg-g> btw: that torrent is not aaron's doing
<greg-g> just for the record
<snap-l> Had a great discussion about intellectual property afterwards
<greg-g> awesome
<snap-l> What's interesting is how many people don't understand the journaled paper system and why it's a racket
<snap-l> freely delivered papers get locked up in paywalls
<snap-l> Makes no damn sense.
<greg-g> yeah, the whole fact that universities pay twice, sometimes thrice, for the same article because of a middle-man
<Wolfger> "The universe is full of middlemen, and they don't take kindly to being cut out."
<snap-l> Just another way that education gets abused.
<snap-l> Wolfger: ++
<snap-l> JoDee and I have this idea kicking around about doing a documentary on the abuses in the education system
<Wolfger> Leave it to Firefly to give me an obscure quote for just about any occasion. :-)
<snap-l> mostly from an adjunct faculty perspective, but could include things like bookstores, papers, etc.
<snap-l> Wolfger: Funny thing is I read that as "University"
<Wolfger> oh god.... book stores are the worst
<snap-l> Wolfger: Oh yeah
<snap-l> Saw one charging full price for Redhat 7.3 Unleashed at a time when Microcenter couldn't give them away.
<snap-l> My favorite trick at OU is that you have to have your schedule when purchasing books, and you can't browse the books. Someone brings them to you.
<snap-l> because those little ISBN numbers could mean the difference between them making a sale or not.
<greg-g> snap-l: welcome back to the days of closed library stacks
<brousch> This seems like greg-g's wet dream http://www.mlive.com/business/west-michigan/index.ssf/2011/07/doorganics_produce_service_bri.html
<greg-g> brousch: looks ok. basically a CSA with delivery, right?
<brousch> what's a CSA?
<snap-l> greg-g: Yeah, I know. We can't be trusted to find books without getting our grubby hands all over everything
<greg-g> brousch: Community Supported Ag: aka, a farm that has members and gives it's produce out every week to those members. The members pay a fee each year
<brousch> I think this is just an organic farm, and delivery is by a startup company
<brousch> pay by the week
 * greg-g nods
<brousch> i signed up
<brousch> hopefully the ants won't eat my veg before i get home
<ColonelPanic001> >_>
<rick_h_> QOTD: https://twitter.com/#!/sdw/status/93779323475066880
<snap-l> rick_h_: JoDee saw a job yesterday that was looking for rock stars
<brousch> hey, my son and i were flying around the house just last night
<snap-l> some clerical job or something.
<rick_h_> brousch: nothing wrong with flying around like air planes
<rick_h_> especially if nerf guns are involved in the dog fights
<brousch> usually foam swords
<rick_h_> but yea, the ninja/rock star "I'm a geek behind a desk and thus need a cool remake" has gone far enough
<rick_h_> ooh, up close and personal, looking into the eyes of your enemy, I like it!
<snap-l> I don't know about you, but some days I feel like I've been ambushed by several men in a dark alley.
<gamerchick02> happy birthday to me.
<gamerchick02> and it's too darn hot
<snap-l> Were it not for my debugging shuriken, I'd never have survived.
<Wolfger> Happy birthday! \o/
<gamerchick02> :)
<gamerchick02> thank you.
<snap-l> gamerchick02: I got you some heat for your birthday.
<Wolfger> LOL
<gamerchick02> our AC isn't working right. :(
<gamerchick02> gee thanks, snap-l
<gamerchick02> :-P
<snap-l> since you said you wanted some in winter
<snap-l> <- Thoughtful
<gamerchick02> i did?
<snap-l> Yep
<_stink_> snap-l: i could get on board with that (the documentary idea)
<greg-g> heya gamerchick02 ! have you had a chance to go through the email list archive and look for announcements of events and add them to the Team Reports (or at least a list)?
<snap-l> I think just about anyone that has done adjunt teaching could. ;)
<greg-g> oh hey, happy birthday, gamerchick02 ! :)
<snap-l> _stink_: ^
<gamerchick02> i've had a chance to look through. i've been dealing with a bunch of stuff for Nile.
<gamerchick02> thanks for checking up on my greg-g
<_stink_> snap-l: yeah, said interest could have been assumed. :)
<greg-g> gamerchick02: :) no worries, let me know if you need help or want to pass it off
<gamerchick02> i'll get a list together today or tomorrow. is that ok?
<gamerchick02> and thanks for the b-day wishes
<greg-g> yeah, today/tomorrow is totally good
<snap-l> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-michigan/1090/detail/
<snap-l> We decided on 12-5p didn't we?
<greg-g> snap-l: I think so, sure
<Wolfger> the week before OLF
<Wolfger> sounds good
<Wolfger> anybody doing OLF this year?
<snap-l> Yep
<brousch> Event contact: Craig Maloney (not greg-g) :'(
<snap-l> Yeah, not sure who to put there. :(
<brousch> you're good, just no greg is sad
<brousch> that's my wedding anniversary weekend, so i cannot commit at this time
<snap-l> http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/ubuntu-michigan/80/detail/
<snap-l> Anything else we need to cover?
<brousch> departure of jcastro?
<gamerchick02> the meeting is monday aug 8th?
<gamerchick02> i can do that.
<brousch> that's the monthly meeting
<brousch> where we sit in irc and talk about stuff
<snap-l> that's actually on Sunday
<snap-l> because it's UTC, it shows up as Monday.
<snap-l> jcastro's departure is only for a year
<snap-l> also bringing up greg-g's departure because it affects the loco
<snap-l> Also, just sent in a sponsorship request for UDS. Hoping I can make the cut and head down to help make 12.04 awesome.
<brousch> nice
<snap-l> Man, it's over Halloween, though
<brousch> i'm so lame i've dropped back to 10.04 on my laptop
<_stink_> heh, i have this machine on hardy, work machine and laptop on 10.04
<_stink_> i don't even try anymore.
<brousch> it's nice to have second monitor working again, and consistent movement of windows between them. i do miss a few shortcuts from unity though
<Wolfger> good luck, snap-l. Where is UDS 12.04 being held?
<snap-l> Florida
<snap-l> which is part of the reason I'm hot on getting to this one.
<snap-l> ie: It's in the USA, and I can drive there
<snap-l> or take a train or ...
<greg-g> flight would probably be cheapest, really
<snap-l> Understood, but I'm not much of a fan of flying
 * greg-g nods
<greg-g> fair
<brousch> airtran flies direct from GRR to orlando
<rick_h_> nice drive down 75
<Wolfger> Ugh. Massive fail. Microsoft Excel will open a .ods file, but all the formulas are gone, replaced by the values they derived.
<Wolfger> anybody know a way around that? (other than "install Libre Office on your work laptop")
<brousch> so, open it in libreoffice, save as xls, open it in excel :P
<brousch> doh
<brousch> google docs maybe?
<Wolfger> blocked by work firewall for some indecipherable reason
<Wolfger> oh well. nothing critical. I can convert it to .xls when I get home... or just work on it in Libre Office at home.
<greg-g> Wolfger: send it to me and I'll send you back an .xls
<brousch> email it to someone to convert?
<brousch> i am just a few seconds too slow today
<greg-g> :)
 * greg-g grumbles about last minute event cancelations when I make an effort to get there in 90 degree heat when my office is closed because the AC is broken and I even confirmed that we were still on for today yesterday at 3pm
<_stink_> just a grumble?
<_stink_> i would be muttering
<snap-l> Loudly
<gamerchick02> sorry to hear about that greg-g
<snap-l> Go the bedroom AC unit running with the door open in the hopes that it can keep the house cooled.
<snap-l> Already the fight is being lost, I can tell
<_stink_> :(
<rick_h_> greg-g: https://twitter.com/#!/mpirnat/status/94053581828784128
<rick_h_> seems to be a theme
<Wolfger> thanks, greg-g
<rick_h_> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/pF73syU6qmmaKEkGZKZF/ *sigh* sums up my day so far
<Wolfger> rick_h_: wtf?
<greg-g> snap-l: we did that (the one window AC unit in the bedroom working really hard to cool the rest of the place) and yeah, didn't work :)
<brousch> our house is quad level, with each level being about 440sqft. a window AC worked to cool the upstairs level
<brousch> we hung a heavy curtain in front of the stairs to help keep the cool up there
<greg-g> yeah, we were thinking of doing that to separate the kitchen from the rest, too keep the heat in the kitchen
<snap-l> rick_h_: Niiice.
<snap-l> "How critizism can help us all"
<brousch> last night i discovered that i can watch streaming netflix on my nook color
<brousch> best tablet evar
<snap-l> Anyone want a kobo, cheep?
<brousch> $5
<jrwren> kobo?
<jrwren> ebook thingY/
<Wolfger> is that the Border's ebook?
<snap-l> Yeah, that's the Borders  eBook reader partner
<Wolfger> yeah, thanks, I'll pass. :-)
<snap-l> It's still supported.
<rick_h_> hah, love this:
<rick_h_> access_log = sa.Table("access_log", meta.metadata,
<rick_h_>  oops
<rick_h_> and live within the unfortunate 16 terabyte volume limitation of ext4
<rick_h_> sorry, just getting around to reading about the updated storage pods http://blog.backblaze.com/2011/07/20/petabytes-on-a-budget-v2-0revealing-more-secrets/
<rick_h_> wow, detroit in the tech news: http://techcrunch.com/2011/07/21/earvin-magic-johnson-joins-detroit-vc-firm-to-invest-in-tech-startups/
<_stink_> dang
<jrwren> those backblaze storage pods are cool, but my understanding is that the scalable informatics products are priced similar and far far faster.
<rick_h_> just seeing them with 72TB in a 4U
<rick_h_> 5U goes up to 144TB on their site
<brousch> hah, i like how it takes a sports star to get something that in the news
<Wolfger> Yeah
<Wolfger> like I was saying a day or two ago... Michael Vick might be the best thing that ever happened to pit bulls in America
<Wolfger> because now anti-animal-fighting legislation is getting national headlines on a fairly regular basis
<Wolfger> And every one of those headlines has "Vick" as either the first or second word
<snap-l> Too bad he's pairing up with a bag of assholes
<snap-l> (Magic Johnson)
<rick_h_> I feel so bad
<rick_h_> I can't help but read these things http://blog.launchpad.net/bug-tracking/automatic-confirmation
<rick_h_> as "we've finally gotten around to trying to un-f@#$#@ launchpad after these years"
<snap-l> Yeah, I never understood why confirmation was a separate event
<snap-l> Since confirmation is like a milestone event
<brousch> bag of assholes?
<rick_h_> they're coming in bags now, got too bruised when shipped in boxes
<brousch> sounds like a good name for a band
<gamerchick02> bag of assholes?
<snap-l> I'm flattered that I'm the person to bring the colorful language to IRC.
<brousch> HEY THIS IS BAG OF ASSHOLES FROM DETROIT, MICHIGAN, AND WE'RE GONNA ROCK YOU 'TIL YOUR SPHINCTER BLEEDS!
<gamerchick02> LOL, brousch
<snap-l> 13:03 <@Steempy> Q. How did the hipster burn his mouth?
<snap-l> 13:03 <@Steempy> A. He ate the pizza before it was cool.
<rick_h_> my dentist just told me I burned my mouth from pizza the other day
<rick_h_> I must be hipster!
<snap-l> rick_h_: hipster
<brousch> absolutely
<rick_h_> so if I'm hipster, does that put me in with greg-g?
<snap-l> No, greg-g is a hippie
<snap-l> It means you need to trade that Thinkpad in for a Mac.
<rick_h_> oooh, hippie, my mistake. Crap
 * rick_h_ pats his thinkpad protectively
 * rick_h_ murmurs "they won't hurt you baby, they can never split us apart"
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oRI1-PznQw
<snap-l> rick_h_: ^^
<rick_h_> lol
<snap-l> It's the branding. built like a tank.
<rick_h_> I spilled earl grey with honey on her and she's still cranking for me
<rick_h_> <3
<_stink_> probably drank it up with an air of sophistication.
<rick_h_> bah, 45min until town hall meeting, lost all motivation
<brousch> town hall meeting?
<rick_h_> yea, we have quarterly "get everyone in a big room and talk about how much $$ we are/aren't making"
<snap-l> http://askmurdoch.co.uk/
<brousch> ah, we call that our quarterly meeting
<snap-l> Yeah, we're going to have one of those soon
<rick_h_> right, but you're supposed to ask good questions of the big boss figureheads and all that. So they go "town hall" with it
<snap-l> rick_h_: So you get one emplyee with brass ones asking tough questions, and all of the leaders saying "let me get back to you on that"
<brousch> i see. ours is basically a one way flow of info
<snap-l> brousch: The outhouse if information?
<_stink_> brass ones or ambitions of middle management.
<brousch> yes, they dump it on us
<snap-l> Suddenly the skies grow dark. The people gather in amazement. "What could it be?" they clamour.
<snap-l> A groan... a sigh...
<snap-l> PLOOP
<brousch> transformers 3?
<snap-l> heh
<greg-g> ugh, heat headache
<_stink_> hope it's not worse than that
<greg-g> I'm a wuss this year. I'm usually not debilitated by heat like this. Yeah, I sweat and such but it doesn't normally give me headaches
<brousch> it is mother nature warning you about the global warming
<brousch> she knows you care
<_stink_> i think that warning the guy who is part of a co-op farm is a waste of her effort
<greg-g> brousch: you're probably right :)
<brousch> i think greg-g is one of the Planeteers
<greg-g> we *were* just talking about the planeteers yesterday at work :)
<_stink_> Wind! Fire! Headache!
<greg-g> lol
<brousch> greg-g is earth. his headache means an earthquake is imminent
<_stink_> hah
<snap-l>    Temperature: 99.0 F (37.2 C)
<snap-l> ugh
<brousch> There was one in alaska at 2:01 our time. when did the headache start?
<greg-g> brousch: you know, around then, actually :)
<jjesse> greg-g maybe hanging out w/ this guy:http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_looym0Ny7l1qck4tco1_500.jpg can help you with your heat headache
<greg-g> jjesse: oh, my, lord. That guy looks so freaking happy. I do want to join him!
<jjesse> simple joys in life
<jrwren> just got asked to look at a pthon app... its using springpython.  w.t.f.
<jrwren> i thought greg-g was the heart planeteer of #ubuntu-us-mi
<brousch> i've heard of springpython, but didn't know anyone actually used it
<snap-l> Proof that just because you can doesn't mean you should (mix Spring and Python)
<gamerchick02> new phone activated.
<gamerchick02> eff yeah technology
<Blazeix> gamerchick02: cool, what phone?
<gamerchick02> LG Optimus V
<gamerchick02> on Virgin Mobile
<gamerchick02> i'm going from a flip LG to an android
<jjesse> my wfie made the same jump
<gamerchick02> it's crazy
<gamerchick02> i just connected my gmail account but now i'm trying to delete all the people i don't, uhm, have numbers for.
<brousch> why?
<brousch> you gmail contacts and android contacts are intertwined
<brousch> just leave them
<greg-g> ok, seeing how the optimus v can't tether, how can I make sure that the phone I get does (whether or not my service provider likes it)
<greg-g> gamerchick02: I'm looking for a new phone, my first smart phone, right now as well, so I'm going crazy with all the research
<greg-g> I think I want tethering given I'll be driving out west for a few weeks when I also need to do work, and when I get to SF I'll be commuting for a bit on a train
<gamerchick02> yeah
<gamerchick02> i did that too
<gamerchick02> i'm not sure if the LG from virgin mobile will allow tethering
<snap-l> greg-g: You might just want to get a separate MyFi
<brousch> snap-l ++
<brousch> providers are cracking down on "illegal" tethering
<snap-l> Or MiFi
<brousch> mifi
<brousch> unauthorized is a better word
<snap-l> brousch: Better word would be "service degrading without proper renumeration"
<gamerchick02> just set up mustard
<gamerchick02> whoot!
<gamerchick02> twitdroyd no way.
<gamerchick02> :)
<brousch> hootsuite ftw
<gamerchick02> mustard ftw. works with my status.net account
<brousch> with whowhat?
<brousch> your friendster account?
<greg-g> blog announcement that I'm moving: http://blog.grossmeier.net/2011/07/21/moving-to-sf-working-with-cc/
<gamerchick02> friendster?
<gamerchick02> no.
<gamerchick02> status.net. like identica
<brousch> sorry, i get my dead social sites mixed up sometimes
<brousch> muahahahahahah
<gamerchick02> what?
<gamerchick02> identica isn't dead. i'd say it's quite alive
<gamerchick02> i get far less spam there than i do on twitter
<jrwren> springpython looks interesting.
<jrwren> it will inject instances of objects that are deserialized. makes it very nice for configing default states of types
<snap-l> greg-g: you're also part of the Americas Membership Board?
<snap-l> Sheesh
<snap-l> What aren't you doing now?
<greg-g> snap-l: well, I guess I'll be no longer the de-facto leader of -us-mi :)
<brousch> i nominate snap-l as your successor
<_stink_> quick, elect him while he's not around
<snap-l> Sheesh
<snap-l> ;)
<widox> hey, congrats snap-l! :p
<snap-l> thanks? :)
<brousch> where's the crown?
<Blazeix> brousch: did you not get the memo? we're showing up at snap-l's house with the crown at 8pm.
<brousch> crap, webcast it for me
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-07-22
<gamerchick02> i have a crown.
<gamerchick02> but i'm the only one who can wear it.
<snap-l> http://www.newscorp.com/news/news_502.html <- Shortest Press Release Ever.
<Wolfger> morning
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> snap-l: http://www.walrus-books.com/2011/06/epubdemo3/
<Wolfger> Why does NASA keep looking for signs of life on Mars? I say we should be transporting microscopic organisms over there, and see what happens to them when they are set loose.
<greg-g> g'morn
<Wolfger> Live? Die? Mutate? Evolve and declare independence from Mother Earth?
<brousch> Wolfger: that's not very environmentally friendly of you
<Wolfger> It's very environmentally friendly. I'm trying to promote an ecosystem
<greg-g> Wolfger: didn't you know? Wastelands are supposed to stay wastelands!
<brousch> first we must determine if an ecosystem already exists
<Wolfger> I mean, if we're going to launch Curiosity to see if Mars can sustain life, what better way of testing than to send some life over and see? Mythbuster this thing wide open.
<greg-g> ok, brousch was actually a better hippy than I there.
<brousch> greg-g: but we only have to do this because damned dirty hippies like you would whine if we didn't ;)
<greg-g> Wolfger: well, as a scientist, we know that we would have to send every type of simple organism imagineable, which we can't really find in the wild nor create in the lab, so we wouldn't be able to bust any myth other than "given the species we tried..."
<greg-g> brousch: true.
<greg-g> :)
<Wolfger> So renamed "Curiosity" as "Noah" and send sufficient samples of every microorganism we can
<greg-g> sufficient is the hard/possibly impossible word there
<Wolfger> they're microorganisms... they don't take much room :-)
<greg-g> not about room, but about getting all of the right combinations of traits
<greg-g> am I being too serious too early in the morning?
<Wolfger> greg-g: sufficient meaning, in this case, "a number that scientists agree should be able to start a viable new culture upon arrival". I don't now how many that is, but I'm sure the dudes who study microbiology do.
<Wolfger> but I think good starting points are to send organisms that already live in harsh environments on Earth.
<Wolfger> of course, one problem with this approach is that the long flight through space may/will start them mutating before they reach Mars
<Wolfger> but we can only do so much. Instantaneous transport of material is not yet possible (nor is it likely to ever be, sorry Star Trek fans)
<brousch> dreamkiller
<snap-l> blargh
<snap-l> spent the night at Emergency with JoDee's dad because hefell
<Wolfger> :-(  Sorry to hear that snap-l
<Wolfger> is he ok?
<snap-l> I know there's no way in hell I can get8 hours of sleep in 2hours, but damned if I'm going to try
<snap-l> Yeah, he's fine
<snap-l> they couldn't stop the bleeding because he's on blood thinners
<brousch> snap-l: that's rough
<snap-l> common problem
<snap-l> But the American House sent him there
<snap-l> as he should have been sent the many times before
<snap-l> (when he wasn't at American House)
<snap-l> Still, quite tired today
<snap-l> Didn't get home until after 5am
<brousch> did you bring a pillow?
<snap-l> to Emergency? No
<snap-l> To work? I work from home.
<snap-l> So a pillow is a glorious few feet away.
<greg-g> an all but too tempting few feet away, eh?
<snap-l> Actually not as far as one might think
<snap-l> God I really hate the connection manager that ships with the Thinkpad for Windows
<brousch> well the obvious solution is
<brousch> bah, nevermind, you have it bad enough this morning
<snap-l> Say Ubuntu motherfucker. Say it.
<snap-l> ;)
<brousch> no, now i'm afraid to
<snap-l> OK, the Internet hasn't blown up. Life still exists on the planet
<snap-l> All is well with the world.
<snap-l> and if we want that homeostatis to continue, I shall try to get inanother hour.
<snap-l> laterness.
<Wolfger> snap-l: Ubuntu
<greg-g> Say 'what' again, I dare you!
<Wolfger> greg-g: what
<Wolfger> I so totally would have been killed by that man
<greg-g> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snW3cM1KipQ
<greg-g> Wolfger: I don't think you are alone in that assessment
<Wolfger> that I would have been killed?
<Wolfger> thanks
<Wolfger> Is it just me, or does anybody else think the typical American is more concerned with the NFL lockout than the debt ceiling?
<brousch> i'm more concerned with how oracle's lawsuit will impact android
<jjesse> Wolfger you are correct
<jjesse> i could care less about the nfl lockout
<jjesse> though i don't understand the need for a debt ceiling if we are always going to raise it
<brousch> heh, that is kind of silly
<ColonelPanic001> I am very concerned about the status of the Handegg league. Give me my social opiates
<ColonelPanic001> How can I be expected to live without watching a bunch of millionaires play a game?
<Wolfger> brousch: are you under the illusion that you are a typical American in this respect?
<brousch> no
<Wolfger> OK, Python question for anybody except rick_h_: What's the best gui to use? Tkinter, just because it's built in? Or something else? I will want the end product to be cross platform and distributable without non-Linux people having to install other packages (Linux people have no problem with this, due to our awesome package managers!)
<rick_h_> http://www.androidcentral.com/google-music-manager-now-available-linux
 * rick_h_ wonders how I got to be excluded from python questions
<Wolfger> (...and I only exclude rick_h_ because I don't want to hear anything about using CLI instead of gui... not because I don't value his opinion)
<rick_h_> wxpython for simple stuff, going all the way to pyqt if you're doing a real app
<Wolfger> "real app"?
<rick_h_> so if you're just sticking a ui in front of some script/etc I'd just add wxpython as I think it's easier to get into
<rick_h_> but I don't know it would scale up well for something larger
<Wolfger> I basically want to write an IRC client (from the gui perspective, identical)
<rick_h_> with a side note that I've had limited experience
<Wolfger> is there any FLOSS IRC client written in Python I could steal from?
<rick_h_> no idea, gui irc seems a bit crazy to me :P
<Wolfger> heh
<brousch> with any gui other than tkinter you will have to install something extra, or go through the pain of trying to package it
<brousch> esp on windows
<brousch> you need python+wxpython, or python+pygtk all in one installer, or python+pyqt
<brousch> because, remember, windows doesn't even come with python
<Wolfger> Windows sucks. :-p
<Wolfger> is there any built-in package creator for Python, to distribute Py apps on sucky OS's
<Wolfger> ?
<brousch> kind of
<brousch> http://www.py2exe.org/
<brousch> rick_h_: are you actually using the google music manager?
<brousch> mine complained that flac is not supported, now it won't upload anything
<rick_h_> brousch: no, I
<rick_h_> m in the amazon boat
<rick_h_> but figured I'd share
<rick_h_> the article says it supports flac and ogg by transcoding them to 320kb .mp3 and uploads those
<brousch> yeah, now it says the servers may be overloaded
<brousch> all those linux geek uploading their music
<rick_h_> we tend to have good bandwidth
<rick_h_> need it for those iso's and updates :)
<Wolfger> too much to learn :-p
<Wolfger> I need the plug-in learning, Matrix style.
 * Wolfger knows kung fu
<Wolfger> (not really)
<brousch> need to learn python, then the gui toolkit, then how to distribute it
<rick_h_> google doodle is kind of cool today
<rick_h_> yea, welcome to programming :)
<jjesse> its pretty nice
<rick_h_> next we'll make you a DBA, then a deployment wizard, and finally see if we can melt your brain with some scaling tricks using async, eventual consistancy, and message passing :)
<Wolfger> start learning Python, then somebody says stfu&c and I say yeah, sounds good, oh wait, now I'm learning Tk. No, wait, wx...
<Wolfger> ugh
<Wolfger> I could just make it a cli app that virtually nobody would use... :-p
<brousch> webapp
<brousch> everything is a webapp now
<Wolfger> because I think the overlap between people who use Twitter and people who use CLI is very small... add in the circle of people who would find my app useful, and I might be the only one in that Venn
<Wolfger> webapp sucks
<Wolfger> then I would have to host it
<brousch> oh, it's some kind of twitter app?
<brousch> you're supposed to use adobe air for those
<Wolfger> THC: Twitter Hastag Chat
<Wolfger> for that segment of the Twitter population that treats a hashtag almost exactly like an IRC chatroom (but have no idea what IRC is)
<ptenhoopen_> Interesting
<brousch> sounds like a plugin for pidgin
<Wolfger> I came up with this idea about a year ago, and got some people excited that I might actually do it
<Wolfger> and then like a chump I dropped it on the floor
<Wolfger> swept it under the rug
<Wolfger> now I'm feeling the urge to code (though not necessarily stfu)
<Wolfger> :-)
<Wolfger> ugh... s/Hastag/Hashtag/...
<brousch> write the cli version then slap on the gui
<rick_h_> api
<Wolfger> thought about that... not sure how well that would work. I think I might be causing myself more pain doing it that way
<ptenhoopen_> brousch: +1
<ptenhoopen_> rick_h: +1
<jrwren> its sad that this channel is most active during business hours.  so much lost productivity :)
<brousch> :P
<Wolfger> jrwren --
<Wolfger> :-)
<brousch> who peed on your wheaties this morning?
<jrwren> wtf?
<jrwren> rofl
<jrwren> i just wish I got more done in a day.
<brousch> ah, i thought you were admonishing us for being less productive
<Wolfger> rick_h_: google doodle is downright bizarre today
<rick_h_> yea, interesting/different
<Blazeix> I'm a big fan of calders
<Blazeix> I'd also like to be on the team who develops these doodles.
<Blazeix> s/who/that/
<Wolfger> normally you can make out the "Google" inside the doodle, but I don't see it at all here
<jjesse> can you make it "spin" in a way that shows it?
<Wolfger> oh, sure, let's just waste *more* productivity.... :-D
<Wolfger> you'll make jrwren get nothing done at all today
<Wolfger> wtf? http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/1107/quidditch.college.campus/content.11.html
<brousch> quidditch seems silly until we get flying, self-propelled, AI-controlled balls
<Wolfger> no, no, no... aside from that
<Wolfger> wtf is coming out of her shorts?
<brousch> does a human act as the ball?
<Wolfger> even if we accept quidditch, that's just inexplicably weird
<brousch> she is sparkly like the little ball
<brousch> "in Muggle Quidditch the Snitch is most often a neutral player, usually dressed in all gold, sometimes adorned with wings"
<jjesse> wow thats silly
<brousch> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muggle_Quidditch
<Wolfger> but what is the brown thing flying out of the snitch's short? That's just wrong.
<brousch> you probably have to grab it
<Wolfger> Hmm
<brousch> held in place by flexing of her buttocks
<Wolfger> LOL
<Wolfger> I was in the process of typing "that makes sense" until you threw in that last comment
<snap-l> Wolfger: Python GUI? wxpython
<jrwren> rofl.
<jrwren> pygtk?
<greg-g> ok, this may be a dumb question, but are there any service providers that all you to use a 4g capable phone on their 3g network (eg: virgin mobile)
<jrwren> allow you?
<greg-g> well, like, some providers don't let you use any phone other than the ones they sell, right
<jrwren> i would think they all do. i've never heard of a 3g fon that doesn't fall back to edge if there is no 3g
<greg-g> well, my thinking is this: buy a 4g phone full price, but get a 3g (eg: virgin mobile) plan for a month or so, and maybe switch over to a "grown up" plan later with 4g service
<greg-g> (virgin only has 3g service, not 4g)
<rick_h_> the problem is that the phones only work per service for the most part
<rick_h_> they're built with specific freq. bands
<rick_h_> and they just don't run on the bands of the other networks
<rick_h_> 4g is the same way, ATT and verizion 4g phones run on a sub-section of the 4g spectrum
<Wolfger> uh... hmm...
<rick_h_> so even though they'll finally have sim cards, you can't take a Verizon 4g phone over to ATT because the radio isn't build for those bands in the spectrum
<Wolfger> I could be completely wrong, but I thought all carriers in the US used one of two bands
<rick_h_> they uses ranges in the bands
<rick_h_> the band is say xxx-yyy and verizon will use x00-x66 and att x67-x99 kind of thing
<rick_h_> http://techcrunch.com/2011/07/15/verizon-no-our-4g-lte-phones-wont-work-with-atts-lte-network/
<rick_h_> Verizonâs LTE network operates in the upper half of the 700 Mhz range (746-787 Mhz), while AT&Tâs operates on the lower half (704-746).
<rick_h_> and then that article brings up that the 4g isn't carrying voice calls yet
<Wolfger> re: quidditch... friend of mine came up with a brilliant suggestion just now. Instead of holding the brooms between their legs and running around, they should be "flying" unicycles around the field. Mount a broomstick on it for looks if you like...
<rick_h_> lol
<greg-g> rick_h_: oh wow, that's stupid. But, I guess I saw that coming
<rick_h_> yea, this is why I just go contract. Only tmo has a price cut if you buy your own phone
<rick_h_> but it's not like you can get a phone and carrier hop
<rick_h_> it's all a very tied system
<jrwren> zomg, unicycles would be awesome!
<greg-g> damn, my plans are foiled!
<greg-g> rick_h_: thanks for the reality check.
<rick_h_> basicaly start with the carrier that works in your area and then find the phone you want amonth them
<rick_h_> amonth/among
 * greg-g nods
<snap-l> Wel, you're also dealing with carriers that have ben slow to upgrae their systems as well
<rick_h_> yea, it's a freaking mess
<snap-l> Esp since Verizon uses CDMA
 * greg-g grumbles
<rick_h_> greg-g: you've done good to stay out of this long heh
<greg-g> :)
<snap-l> greg-g: This video should help you transition to your new phone service: http://www.mentalfloss.com/blogs/archives/94774
<snap-l> Apparently these video was created before the invention of the zero
<greg-g> snap-l: thanks :)
<Wolfger> http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/95224/is-there-any-limit-on-how-much-one-should-consider-about-learning-new-programming
<rick_h_> lol, awesome. I think I've got that disease Wolfger
<Wolfger> yeah, it reminded me of your rant about part time devs...
<Wolfger> there are those that want to know enough to get/keep a job, and then there are those that just want to know more and more and omgitneverends
<rick_h_> it is tough though, there really is a never ending set of skills to get from just writing a script to scaling up some large service
<rick_h_> and it's hard to know enough about each step/level
<rick_h_> and that's not even considering things like languages/db tools that are just plain better for some jobs than others
<snap-l> Welcome to programming. It's a journey, not a destination
<brousch> great, now you guys don't have to watch my pyohio presentation
<rick_h_> why is this?
<brousch> you already have all of the conclusions
<Wolfger> \o/
<snap-l> http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/95224/is-there-any-limit-on-how-much-one-should-consider-about-learning-new-programming/95247#95247
<snap-l> Wolfger: Why do you read programmers.stackexchange.com? :)
<snap-l> It's like the biggest programmer rathole out there.
<snap-l> "What color is your bellybutton lint?"
<Wolfger> because sometimes it's fun to read that rubbish and make fun of people :-)
<snap-l> http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/16651/programming-for-the-sake-of-programming-is-there-something-wrong
<snap-l> We are artists. Our profession is a form of art. What do you think about it?
<snap-l> Bwahahahahahahahahahaha.
<rick_h_> well he's got one part right
<rick_h_> I mean I didn't take this job because I was facinated by 'market research'
<snap-l> Right, and I couldn't give a fuck about the auto industry.
<rick_h_> I took it because I had the chance to develop in python, to spread python to others, and hopefully do some interesting things along the way
<rick_h_> right _stink_ ?
<snap-l> http://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/9105/physics-in-an-rpg-water-and-electricity-spells
<snap-l> See, this is the kind of meta discussion I care about
<_stink_> rick_h_: just recovered after power outage, what'd i miss?
<rick_h_> nothing, caught you coming back and figured i'd point you out :P
<rick_h_> power problems? You've been on/off today it seems?
<_stink_> :)
<_stink_> rick_h_: naw, this time it was DTE coming by to replace the meter
<_stink_> took the day off
<_stink_> so happen to be home
<rick_h_> ah, gotcha
<_stink_> to reset my server
<_stink_> good stroke of luck, because i'd be pissed if i were at work and the server went out
<_stink_> oh, and earlier was AT&T fixing my router.
<Wolfger> r
<Wolfger> rick_h_: right... who cares about customer happiness? ;-)
<snap-l> _stink_: Yeah, DTE replaced our meter a while ago
<Wolfger> just stfu&c
<snap-l> interesting watching them in action.
<Wolfger> I have a comic in my cube. The gist of it is: Getting paid is objective #1, surviving to spend that pay is objective #2. Customer satisfaction, therefore is #3... or maybe #5.
<snap-l> Wolfger: That's about it
<snap-l> I loved that slogan at Ford" Quality is Job One"
<snap-l> unfortunately, outside of the auto industry, nobody knows what Job One means
<snap-l> it's not the first priority, it's the first car off the line.
<Wolfger> which nobody in their right mind wants to own!
<snap-l> a'yep
<snap-l> Unless you're a collector, but generally speaking the ones that I've talked to want the last one off the line
<Wolfger> "You can better car drive than I"... I loathe German grammar sometimes.
<Wolfger> It's like talking to Yoda.
<Blazeix> sweet, I just received my spotify invitation.
<Blazeix> I just signed up on Wednesday; that was pretty quick
<rick_h_> awesome
<snap-l> Just sent this to my parents:
<snap-l>  Superstition, half-truths and hysteria have many forwards, but the truth goes unnoticed on some website out there.  -- Martin Luther, if he had e-mail.
<rick_h_> http://www.zurb.com/article/569/super-awesome-interactions-with-jquery-ta kind of cool video on web design stuff widox Blazeix _stink_
<snap-l> (After they had sent this to me: http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/print_did_fdr_promise_that_social_security_would.html)
<Blazeix> snap-l: ooh, cool. I've been finding jquery ui kind of awkward at work, definitely going to watch that.
<rick_h_> yea, it's not for query ui the libary, but just ui interaction design/etc
<Blazeix> ah. they mention jquery ui in the summary, but looking over the notes it's more general stuff. still cool though
<rick_h_> yea
<rick_h_> jquery ui is kind of annoying
<rick_h_> though really anything is I guess
<Blazeix> so far I've been pretty impressed by ext.js
<rick_h_> I got annoyed with them back when they did their relicensing bit
<Blazeix> still trying to wrap my head around their mvc js api, though
<rick_h_> I've not checked them out in a while
<Blazeix> ah, what did it used to be? The free for GPL seems pretty cool
<rick_h_> yea, I did a project for my last job when it was all open, then they did the split license and since it was commercial was kind of annoying
<rick_h_> had to look at redoing
<Blazeix> ugh
<rick_h_> that and that damn infinite scroll table ugh
<jrwren> anyone make bitcoins
<ColonelPanic001> nein
<snap-l> http://www.christiancentury.org/article/2011-07/blogosphere-abuzz-over-rupert-murdoch-bible-mogul
<snap-l> Those crazy wst-Michiganders.
<Blazeix> this is a neat plugin: http://harvesthq.github.com/chosen/
<rick_h_> yea, was checking that out
<rick_h_> a good select is hard to come by
<rick_h_> but it still misses my one feature I loved from the yui2 auto complete
<rick_h_> hitting tab should select the current completion option
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-07-23
<rick_h_> greg-g: ping
<rick_h_> biker people, about to get one of these: http://www.amazon.com/Thule-914XT-Roadway-Hitch-Carrier/dp/B000MRH4VO/ref=cm_cmu_pg__header\
<rick_h_> any reasons I should reconsider?
<rick_h_> or other brands that are good I should check eout?
<_stink_> we just bought a Yakima trunk rack, it was between that and Thule
<rick_h_> ok, yea those two looked like the best brands
<rick_h_> but wasn't sure since I'm not really a pro
<_stink_> but you win the research prize, so i don't know that i'm adding much info
<rick_h_> hah, yea I wish I could turn off the research part of my brain
<rick_h_> checking out bike locks now
<rick_h_> wasting my evening I should be working on my talk
<_stink_> heh
<rick_h_> man, when did it get so easy to chop thick cable locks?
<rick_h_> all the cable based locks have poor reviews and tons of "my bike was stolen" on them
<Milyardo> It's always been easy
<rick_h_> guess I just grew up securing bikes to trees and such
<Milyardo> Cable cutters wouldn't be cable cutters if the didn't cut right?
<Milyardo> *they
<rick_h_> and the U shaped things are all the rage in the vity
<rick_h_> yea, I guess
<rick_h_> figured that they'd have some compression resistant cables or something that your average home depot cutters couldn't do in
<rick_h_> ugh, ok ordered
<rick_h_> sucks that the hitch doesn't include the security lock :/
<greg-g> rick_h_: looks good to me. and yeah, get a security pin for the hitch.
<rick_h_> there he is
<rick_h_> yea, I paid the extra $$ for the locking pin, guess it's threaded so only works with the same brand hitch
<rick_h_> for bike lock I ended up getting: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004C94T84
<rick_h_> what's your lockup strategy? I figure you've got to have a good once since you ride to work and leave it for the day
<rick_h_> lol http://wn.com/Kryptonite_lock_opened_with_a_pen
<greg-g> yeah, old school kryptonite's are bad
<greg-g> so, I use a cable that goes through my rear wheel and then loops up to the U-lock I put through my front wheel.
<greg-g> they can still cut that cable and get my rear wheel, but they can't get the front or the frame
<greg-g> oh yeah, just looked at your link, that setup
<rick_h_> ok, yea I was reading rear vs front locking
<rick_h_> I'd always thought front since it was easier to take off, but seeing stuff that it's not true
<rick_h_> and rear is the more expensive wheel to replace
<greg-g> true it is
<rick_h_> ok, well there went a ton of $$ to secure a couple of old bikes lol
<greg-g> but, my thoght process is that people go for the easy stuff, so since my lock up is better than 99% of the other bikes around me, I'm good
<rick_h_> cool
<rick_h_> come on Tues, wheee
<rick_h_> I find it so funny there's a special NY lock
<greg-g> hah, nice
<greg-g> effing NYC
<snap-l> An then you see that video of people cutting down a tree to get a bike, and realize that it's all for naught anyway.
<greg-g> lol
<greg-g> WTF IS THIS $240!?!?!?!?!?! http://www.amazon.com/Wishbone-Bike-Wollemi-Limited-Wilderness/dp/B004E4IFY6/
<greg-g> AND WTF WOULD A TODDLER NEED BIKE SHORTS?!?!?! http://www.amazon.com/One-Step-Up-Shorts-Sizes/dp/B0058VFLEQ/
<greg-g> sorry
<greg-g> I don't know if I'm cut out for this world of baby merchants.
<_stink_> greg-g: you aren't
<_stink_> avoid them
<_stink_> and don't look at the catalogs that show up in the mail
<rick_h_> yea, and keep a careful eye on the in-laws
<rick_h_> grandmothers are horrible
<rick_h_> and they want pictures of the kids wearing the crap they find
<greg-g> we're doing an amazon baby registry, and good lord, some of this stuff
<rick_h_> oh, sec, let me find that book I got
<rick_h_> http://www.amazon.com/Consumer-Reports-Best-Baby-Products/dp/0890439869/ref=pd_sim_sbs_b_1 I think it was
<rick_h_> was really helpful when registering
<_stink_> greg-g: not that you can't handle it, but if you have any questions about what might/might not be useful, feel free to ask
<rick_h_> brings up points to look for in the items you buy
<_stink_> mostly because rick_h_ already has like 50 sources :P
<rick_h_> yea, _stink_ and I are both just outside most of that stuff
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> well, I am the researcher. My wife loved getting off of the duty for most things
<greg-g> _stink_: thanks man
<rick_h_> only thing we got I'd skip around a second time is the high chair
<rick_h_> all plastic, no padding/fabric next time
<greg-g> hmmm
<rick_h_> too damn hard to clean, it's a disaster now after 18mo of use
<rick_h_> can't toss the cover in the washer since it messes up the padding and won't dry
<greg-g> I was going to ask if you wanted to give it away :)
<greg-g> but nevermind
<rick_h_> hah!, if you can get it clean welcome to it. We just yesterday started sitting him in his travel high chair full time
<rick_h_> more like a booster seat since he wants to be at the table with us anyway
<_stink_> oo, he probably loves that
<_stink_> yeah
<_stink_> at the table like a big kid
<rick_h_> http://www.amazon.com/Fisher-Price-Healthy-Deluxe-Booster-White/dp/B001GQ2RWQ/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1311388286&sr=8-3
<rick_h_> ^^ is pure gold
<rick_h_> easy to clean, easy to take on the road to family visits
<greg-g> oo, not a bad price
<rick_h_> yea, one of the best things I picked up
<rick_h_> not a lot of support for a really little one, but then again we never used the little one support anyway
<rick_h_> http://www.amazon.com/Graco-1762138-Mealtime-Highchair-Morgan/dp/B004DN4R1I/ref=sr_1_20?s=baby-products&ie=UTF8&qid=1311388368&sr=1-20 is what we have
<rick_h_> the fabric gets food all over it and so hard to clean
<rick_h_> bit better to hold a little one with the over the shoulder harness stuff
<rick_h_> _stink_: had a nice looking one, how is that one holding up?
<_stink_> yeah, it was an in-law purchase: http://www.gracobaby.com/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=1751938
<_stink_> still using it
<_stink_> easy to keep clean - we just never used the insert
<_stink_> didn't put the kid in it until, gosh, 8 months, maybe?
<rick_h_> yea, and by then they can hold themselves up ok
<_stink_> but i admit it's up there in price.
<_stink_> yeah
<greg-g> wow yeah
<greg-g> looks nice though
<_stink_> just remember that everything involved in food + baby will get disgusting
<rick_h_> greg-g: http://www.amazon.com/Babybjorn-Baby-Carrier-Air-White/dp/B000CGX7WU/ref=sr_1_4?s=baby-products&ie=UTF8&qid=1311388648&sr=1-4 is what I got. Worked really well and wasn't too hot
<rick_h_> when are you guys due?
<rick_h_> yea, give up having a clean shirt for the first year
<rick_h_> felt like such a slob, but after going through 3 or 4 a day just give in
<_stink_> haha
<_stink_> yeah
<_stink_> especially snot
<rick_h_> yea, ours got sick a ton the first year+
<_stink_> rick_h_: anything new and fun lately with him?
<greg-g> December 8th
<rick_h_> new day care room, he's going crazy
<_stink_> hah
<rick_h_> talking up a storm, mostly in baby french
<_stink_> oh wow
<rick_h_> swim class is back in session, he's terrorizing the lake
<_stink_> wait
<rick_h_> by baby french I mean it sounds like french, but ain't english
<_stink_> you mean French French, or just as a
<_stink_> oh
<_stink_> ok
<_stink_> hah
<_stink_> phew
<_stink_> was gonna say
<rick_h_> he has whole conversations, long sentences/etc
<_stink_> move to Canada
<rick_h_> just no idea wtf it is
<_stink_> hahah, yeah
<rick_h_> wish he would concentrate on the single words
<rick_h_> but he's started to put together two-word phrases which is cool
<rick_h_> "up please" coming out better
<_stink_> when ours does that, we say "did you say <random phrase>?" to which he always replies yes
<_stink_> doesn't matter what we suggest
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> he's started to learn no
<rick_h_> "is it bed time?" "nooooooo"
<_stink_> haha
<_stink_> yeah
<rick_h_> drags it out and shakes his head
<rick_h_> very cute
<_stink_> "TOO BAD" i bellow
<_stink_> i am very mean.
<rick_h_> hah!
<rick_h_> dad's are supposed to be :)
<rick_h_> dads, wtf I'm becoming the guy my english teacher warned up about
<_stink_> it's ok, Friday evening pass
<rick_h_> hah, thanks
<rick_h_> how's your guy? He's got to be enjoying the outside time these days
<_stink_> yeah, lots of bike rides, etc.
<_stink_> playing with the 8 year old girl next door
<rick_h_> nice, how do you guys bike with him?
<_stink_> rick_h_: http://www.ibertinc.com/
<_stink_> that
<_stink_> got one at REI
<_stink_> and it is nice
<greg-g> man, I am getting sucked in here, research research research
<rick_h_> greg-g: sorry, I didn't save a spreadsheet
<_stink_> took it to Mackinac Island and all
<rick_h_> _stink_: oh, interesting
<rick_h_> hadn't seen those before
<greg-g> rick_h_: hah, no worries :)
<rick_h_> what are you checking out now?
<rick_h_> greg-g: &&
<rick_h_> bah ^^
<greg-g> carriers: apaprently this one is better for hwen they are heavier: http://www.amazon.com/Ergo-Carrier-Black-Camel-Lining/dp/B0010PW3A4/ref=sr_1_1?s=baby-products&ie=UTF8&qid=1311388975&sr=1-1
<rick_h_> _stink_: I went for the trailer. Figured the one cool thing is it's got room for two, so we can hit the store on bike and he can carry the groceries back
<_stink_> rick_h_: for sure.  i think we will get one of those eventually
<rick_h_> greg-g: well I was very happy with the bjorn I linked.
<rick_h_> very light, I was the one that used it mainly
<_stink_> you know, we didn't wear him for long
<rick_h_> handy to work aorund the house and carry him
<rick_h_> and for some of those long nights
<_stink_> we have a bjorn and a mobi wrap thing
<_stink_> didn't use them a whole lot
<rick_h_> yea, I mean it only goes to 20lbs I think?
<_stink_> sounds right
<_stink_> and ours was/is a CHUNK
<rick_h_> I used it a ton, but for just a few months in a row
<rick_h_> it was so nice though, to be able to clean the house/etc and just sling him up in it
<rick_h_> or go on walks with him that way
 * greg-g nods
<rick_h_> but yea, it's only useful for a little bit from my point of view
<rick_h_> since we didn't put him in too young, they had to be xxx tall to be in it to start with
<greg-g> oh, huh
<_stink_> the wrap is probably more versatile that way
<_stink_> http://www.mobywrap.com/
<rick_h_> yea
<_stink_> fwiw
<_stink_> some people use them until the kid is like 10
<_stink_> i only partially kid
<rick_h_> lol
<_stink_> we didn't use ours too much
<rick_h_> yea, I mean by the time they're crawling you'll probably stop
<_stink_> because the kid is punching you in the face to get down?
<rick_h_> 8mo ish maybe? Should have written stuff down more
<rick_h_> because by then you can put them on the floor and get the work/etc done
<rick_h_> and they just crawl around chasing you instead
<_stink_> haha
<_stink_> yeah
<_stink_> then they learn to walk, so they chase you around
<rick_h_> and go stroller vs carrier for walks/outside
<_stink_> and push you away from the counter in the kitchen to get attention
<rick_h_> yea, then all #@$@# breaks out
<rick_h_> pull on your legs
<_stink_> lately ours like to scold the cats
<_stink_> when they get near his toys, or jump up on the table
<rick_h_> greg-g: other tips, the stoller/car seat combo is priceless
<rick_h_> lol
<_stink_> "no no maizey.  no no."
<rick_h_> awesome
<rick_h_> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000VQT4XC/ref=wms_ohs_product_T2 as well since you're having a dec kid
<_stink_> yes for sure
<_stink_> 100x better than getting them super bundled
<rick_h_> yep
<_stink_> just kind of bundle + that
<rick_h_> yea, tuck a blanket over them and that and you're good
<greg-g> just realized, we'll be in SF so, we'll probably be good without it :P
<rick_h_> well I mean it's still 60's and such right?
<rick_h_> could probably t-shirt it and that, big thing is winter wind
<rick_h_> but yea, SF...what is winter in SF
<_stink_> a few clouds
<greg-g> some rain
<rick_h_> hah
<greg-g> :)
<_stink_> greg-g: ok, i'll try to refrain from unsolicited advice, because we all do it differently
<_stink_> BUT
<_stink_> i can't resist this one thing
<rick_h_> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002WD5R1K was awesome
<greg-g> :)
<_stink_> we ended up swaddling ours for quite a while, for naps and nighttime
<greg-g> really, all advice is helpful
<_stink_> and these were easily the best we found: http://www.adenandanais.com/shop/classic.aspx
<_stink_> we have 8 of them, and they are still his 'blankies'
<greg-g> neato
<rick_h_> yea, swaddling is wonders sometimes
<rick_h_> though ours went through that phase quickly
<_stink_> that's good
<_stink_> ours didn't.
<rick_h_> but I promise he slept better some nights with it than without
<_stink_> ours punched himself in the face over and over again
<rick_h_> yea, I think he was crawling/etc more because he only took to it for a bit. Most of the heavy swaddlers were a bit late to that
<rick_h_> but it's just a little bit
<_stink_> yep, that's ours
<_stink_> late to roll, too
<rick_h_> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BW51UQ :)
<rick_h_> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BQKWHE great gate, have two of them now
<rick_h_> going through my amazon order history lol
<greg-g> awesome
<greg-g> :)
<rick_h_> actually suprising little, we made out like bandits from the showers/etc
<greg-g> yeah, I'm hoping this registry will help :)
<rick_h_> oh, go to mom to mom sales
<rick_h_> they're like every freaking weekend
<rick_h_> and gold mines for used items
<rick_h_> we got a $150 pack and play that looks never used for $30
<rick_h_> still use that thing to change diapers on
<greg-g> whoa, are they a thing?
<rick_h_> http://www.mom2momlist.com/
<rick_h_> yes, very real, and something I wish we had discovered earlier
<_stink_> i am scared of those
<rick_h_> thing of a garage sale with nothing but mom's selling their stuff
<_stink_> mostly because i imagine 500 insane mothers
<greg-g> ok, we don't understand diapers/duo wraps/diaper covers/etc
<greg-g> _stink_: you're probably right
<rick_h_> greg-g: we went through it all, just went disposable pampers
<rick_h_> when you look at it all, they're about equal environmentally
<rick_h_> and the ability to just toss when done is good
<rick_h_> yea, we only went to a few of them
<rick_h_> but we got some great stuff each time
<_stink_> geez, i have never even seen a duo wrap before
<rick_h_> especially clothes, they wear them for such a short time
<greg-g> what are diaper liners?
<rick_h_> and they're expensive
<rick_h_> for the bins
<rick_h_> they make these fancy garbage cans that seal in the diapers
<rick_h_> we have a pair, but ones that take normal kitchen bags
<greg-g> oh
<rick_h_> http://www.amazon.com/Baby-Trend-Diaper-Champ-Deluxe/dp/B002IWYXH4/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1311390354&sr=8-8
<rick_h_> definitely a must have
<rick_h_> though we still took out the messy ones out to the trash in the garage vs in the bin
<_stink_> we have the same diaper bin as that
<_stink_> and we just keep piling the poop in it until it is unbearably smelly.
<rick_h_> lol
<_stink_> then i cross myself and take it out. :P
<rick_h_> yea, it really helps
<rick_h_> I always hope the wife fills it first
<_stink_> haha
<rick_h_> like taking the last bit of the ice tea means you have to make more
<_stink_> it's over flowing, but just keep stuffing them in
<_stink_> yeah
<_stink_> haha
<rick_h_> "oh, this last one will fit in there for sure, just have to rock it back/forth and make room"
<_stink_> classic
<greg-g> gross!
<greg-g> :)
<rick_h_> lol, you're about to build a whole new definition of gross
<greg-g> lol
<rick_h_> man, it's ashame you're heading out to CA
<rick_h_> you could just borrow most big stuff, swings, pack and play, car seats, etc
<rick_h_> I mean even if we were to have a second, you'd be out of the stuff before ours came along
<rick_h_> http://www.amazon.com/Fisher-Price-Precious-Planet-Whale-Tub/dp/B0018Z8CN8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1311390605&sr=8-1 really liked that
<rick_h_> http://www.toysrus.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3336550 get a pair of those
<greg-g> yeah :(
<rick_h_> if you guys know how you're going to deal with feeding and need any advice let us know
<rick_h_> erica went through the whole range of stuff and wishes she had done things differently
<_stink_> yeah, that was the source of the most stress for us
<_stink_> wanted to breast feed, didn't work.
<rick_h_> yea, and erica wanted the super high tech special pump and wouldn't get it again
<rick_h_> but also wishes she had let me feed sooner, etc
<rick_h_> the dr brown bottes I thought were ok, glad we got that dishwasher accessory for it
<rick_h_> actually, I can probably send you off with a bunch of those if you wanted
<rick_h_> I bought more than we ever used
<rick_h_> I thought we'd want to have more so we didn't have to constantly clean them, but you do it anyway
<rick_h_> and we hardly used the smaller ones
<_stink_> well, it's fun inundating greg-g with baby info, but it's bedtime.  later guys
<rick_h_> yea, should head myself, night _stink_
<greg-g> g'night _stink_ !
<greg-g> thanks rick_h_ Lets talk more later, at least until the other people in here tell us to shutup :)
<rick_h_> yea no problem.
<greg-g> would love those bottles. I
<greg-g> 'll bring you back your charger and we can chat/etc
<rick_h_> sure, let's set something up after pyohio
<rick_h_> I'll scrounge and see what I can sneak out :)
<brousch> damn, i missed all the baby talk last night
<brousch> Carriers? front baby bjorn carrier http://the-rousches.smugmug.com/The-Chronicles-of-The-Rousches/2008-04/7987967_YrHb2#281425368_RAkdA
<brousch> Stroller? make sure it's tall enough for you. if it's too short it will hurt your back
<brousch> Diapers? get one of the sealing things, but get in the habit of tossing poopers outside
<brousch> and don't get lazy. if you overstuff them they really stink
<brousch> Milk? my wife had a pump that she liked.
<snap-l> hoedy
<snap-l> nice discussion last nighr
<greg-g> :) g'morn
<snap-l> also this ssh cliebt doesnt do the auto correction on thr iphone, so youre getting all of the typos wgolesale
<greg-g> man, stayed up way too late looking at stuff
<greg-g> yay, I love typos
<snap-l> starting to get more rral, eh?
<snap-l> oh, we need this and this and...
<greg-g> very
<greg-g> yeah, and stuff that I don't even think of
<brousch> i wouldn't buy anything until after you move, otherwise you have to drag it all with you
<greg-g> brousch: yeah, for the most part.
<snap-l> true dat
<brousch> bah, all you need early on is diapers, wipes, milk
<brousch> basinet
<greg-g> we're going to use a friend's SF address for the deliveries of our wedding/baby registry
<brousch> clothes
<brousch> blankets
<greg-g> and then, if we do find anything good while here, just throwing it in the POD
<brousch> good idea
<snap-l> will they ship pods avrpss country?
<greg-g> snap-l: yeah, they'll ship'em anywhere really
<brousch> do you have a place lined up in SF?
<greg-g> not yet. posting a housing ad today
<greg-g> a "hey, live with us and lets find a great place to live" craigslist (and other places) ad
<Milyardo> I have here a legacy application where the original developer used floats as the primary key for users
<Milyardo> He must be the biggest dick ever
<brousch> does that even work?
<Milyardo> I would have never thought so
<Milyardo> or at least
<Milyardo> the DB wouldn't let you
<rick_h_> so he used floats, but they all must be int values
<rick_h_> you should be able to just alter the column type recasting the values
<rick_h_> I mean, it's not like any sequence will go up by .0001 or anything
<brousch> hm, now that i think about it, ordering in our foxpro-based program is with floats
<brousch> i don't think indexes are though
<brousch> geeker wife
<brousch> she refuses linux so she can play games, then gets infected with malware every 6 months
<brousch> i caught her just before she was about to use the CC to buy something
<brousch> should i beat her with a stick larger than or smaller than my thumb?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-07-24
<Milyardo> rick_h_: Nope, all except the application's super user, who is just realized not to longer has in index equal to 4 digits of tau
<Milyardo> *not to long ago
<Blazeix> nice, that person should get bonus points.
<Milyardo> His way of keeping script kiddies from passing 1 as the adminitrator ID in SQL hacks is the only rationalization I think of
<_stink_> brousch: larger
<snap-l> Whew, what a day
<snap-l> Four bookstores. :)
<snap-l> Went to the Borders Closing in Rochester
<_stink_> snap-l: was it a madhouse?
<_stink_> we went to the Birmingham store yesterday
<_stink_> the line was like 45 minutes long
<_stink_> and only 10% off
<snap-l> Yea, this wasn't that bad.
<rick_h_> did you kiss the floors farewell?
<rick_h_> :)
<snap-l> I remember the Utica Store closing. It was wrapped around the store
<snap-l> rick_h_: No, I took a piss on it for you. ;)
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> thanks, knew I couldn't make it out in time
<snap-l> Lets just say that I'm not going to be able to buy CDs for a while.
<snap-l> Also got Munchkin Fu
<brousch> i'm scared http://www.zdnet.com/blog/violetblue/google-plus-deleting-accounts-en-masse-no-clear-answers/567?tag=mantle_skin;content
<_stink_> brousch: do you have a fake name on there?
<_stink_> like
<brousch> no, using my real name
<_stink_> hmm, everything i can think of is very vulgar
<brousch> :P
<_stink_> i think you're safe
<snap-l> Whelp, I guess "John Bigcock" is getting deleted tonight.
 * _stink_ googles
<snap-l> _stink_: Why would you google anything that comes out of my mouth?
<snap-l> you know that half of the time I make shit up, and the other half of the time it's NSFW.
<snap-l> ;)
<snap-l> And the other half f the time it's the gospe truth.
<_stink_> snap-l: :P
<greg-g> did brousch really make a "rule of thumb" joke?
<snap-l> good mornibg
<_stink_> yo
<_stink_> greg-g: yes, and liked it enough to put it on Facebook too :P
<greg-g> _stink_: wow :)
<snap-l> Have I mentioned that Python is awesome?
<snap-l> lately, that is?
<greg-g> not in the past day. So, go for it.
<rick_h_droid> snap-l things fitting better?
<snap-l> Well, I'm looking at rewriting a little script that I use for keeping track of due dates in Python that was originally written in Perl.
<snap-l> In [31]: base = datetime.date.today()
<snap-l> In [32]: dateList = [ base - datetime.timedelta(days=x) for x in range(0,numdays) ]
<snap-l> numdays = 14 in this case
<snap-l> That is awesome. :)
<rick_h_> ah, very cool
<snap-l> Man, this disc is taking forever to rip
<snap-l> Coheed and Cambria. Seems to be getting stuck on track 13
<jrwren> want me to snag it for you? :p
<jrwren> year of the black rainbow?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-07-16
<snap-l> http://morepypy.blogspot.com/2012/07/hello-everyone.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+PyPyStatusBlog+%28PyPy+Status+Blog%29
<snap-l> This is just wrong
<snap-l> on so many levels
<Blazeix> eh, the interpreter has to be written in something, python seems as good a choice as any
<Blazeix> er, rpython. i'm not sure what that is.
<snap-l> Yeah, I''ve not heard of that before
<Blazeix> http://doc.pypy.org/en/latest/translation.html
<snap-l> It  looks PyPy related.
<snap-l> Your Google Fu is strong too. ;)
<Blazeix> :)
<snap-l> Restricted Python
<Blazeix> looks like that's what pypy is written in
<snap-l> Don't use it! It's a research prototype intended to assess the feasibility of using RPython to create dynamic language VMs. The most notable feature that's missing is reasonable error reporting. That said, I'm confident it implements enough of the PHP language to prove that the full implementation will present the same performance characteristics.
<snap-l> Foolish mortal, the only thing it's really missing is a wide-scale deployment on every hosting provider out there.
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h_> morning
<snap-l> Last day for Spring books from O'Reilly. :)
<snap-l> (50% off)
<snap-l> http://shop.oreilly.com/category/deals/spring.do?code=WKSPRING&imm_mid=08eb6b&cmp=em-code-books-videos-spring-promo-direct-finalday
<snap-l> OK, I feel like a newb
<snap-l> Just realized there's a way to get documentation in Python without using help()
<snap-l> pydoc
<snap-l> so you can use pydoc ___
<snap-l> All this time I've been firing up an interpreter and doing it that way.
<snap-l> Same results, but shorter turn-around time. :)
<rick_h_> there's a pydoc plugin for vim as well
<snap-l> I'll need to look for that.
<shakes808> good morning
<shakes808> Mr. snap-l: You should bring in an A/C for all the cubes :D A/C isn't working again.
<rick_h_> doh
<rick_h_> that won't do
<rick_h_> though I'm afraid to see my electric bill this month
<shakes808> you are lucky rick_h, you get your own control on the temp
<shakes808> HA HA! Yeah, but I bet you are more comfortable lol
<shakes808> I think it is cooler outside than in here
<shakes808> And there were people here last week doing something on the roof. I wanted to assume that they were working on the A/C but it would seem not :(
<brousch> AC is also out at my wife's workplace for the last 2 2 weeks
<shakes808> :P This is unacceptable Michigan. Your heat and humidity needs to cease. When is Winter coming around again?
<rick_h_> ok, this nexus 7 shipping is getting annoying brousch
<rick_h_> http://wwwapps.ups.com/ietracking/tracking.cgi?tracknum=1Z7F382V0200591460
<PainBank> weather is fine.... if your in the UP...
<rick_h_> http://www.weather.com/weather/tenday/Portland+OR+USOR0275:1:US *sigh*
<brousch> rick_h_: I heard all local brick and mortars are sold out
<brousch> rick_h_: But f you live in Portalnd you'd have to mow your lawn. Here you can let it dry up and die to save yourself from yardwork
<rick_h_> I have to mow it now! in 96 deg or whatever it's supposed to be tomorror
<rick_h_> so the boy can play in it, just ring up the water bill
<brousch> Fool!
<PainBank> brousch: the weeds that love that temp grow... so the yard looks even worse than just high grass
<PainBank> cut and break out the sprinker!
<rick_h_> worked my butt off this year to have a decent lawn to play with the kid in
<brousch> I had to remove maybe half a dozen weeds from my front yard. That is all
<PainBank> pefect weather up north... http://www.weather.com/weather/tenday/Mackinaw+City+MI+USMI0508:1:US
<rick_h_> trugreen helps with most weeks, but I have to follow up
<PainBank> need to buy me some land up there so I can have a remote location to work from in the summer!
<brousch> Is Portland high enough that a tsunami won't wipe it out?
<jrwren> snap-l: disagree, that hippyvm shows that pypy is faster than hiphop, which is very impressive.
<jrwren> rpython is sweet btw.
<rick_h_> yea, the talk of it at pycon was good this year. Lots of interest around it
<jrwren> i want the vhost-net kernel module to load on boot but not from initrd, what is the prefered way to do that these days?
<jrwren> ah, nevermind. qemu-kvm upstart job reads /etc/default/qemu-kvm and decided to load it.
<snap-l> jrwren: I was being facetious. :)
<snap-l> It is cool what they're doing with rpython
<snap-l> I think it's more interesting than parrot / perl 6
<snap-l> mostly because I can see myself using PyPy quicker than Perl 6
<snap-l> I really need to unsubscribe from the Zoup menu of the day. We barely hit there once a month
<snap-l> and it's just noise otherwise. :)
<snap-l> http://unfuckyourhabitat.tumblr.com/
<snap-l>  http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/48180815/ns/business-us_business/
<snap-l> Old media wants its records back
<brousch> Has anyone played with tkinter?
<rick_h_> brousch: finally, shipping updated and shed for tomorrow. Ugh
<rick_h_> brousch: not willingly
<rick_h_> sched that is
<brousch> I'm trying to make a tkinter window pop up for a few seconds and then go away without interaction, like a notification
<rick_h_> on your android thing?
<rick_h_> or on a desktop?
<brousch> Right, so it's like Toast
<brousch> But for the desktop
<rick_h_> and not an ubuntu desktop I assume?
<jrwren> tk?
<jrwren> TK?!?!
<jrwren> what stupid python book are you reading?
<jrwren> any book which mentions tk other than to say "don't do this." should be burned.
<jrwren> BURnED!
<rick_h_> I don't know about that
<rick_h_> it works, cross platform, and is built into the std lib
<jrwren> that is like saying that Ie6 works.
<rick_h_> heh, the problem with IE is that it doesn't work :P
<jrwren> just like tk
<brousch> Not a book
<brousch> I need it to work on Win/Lin/OSX
<brousch> Tkinter is built in. Show a window, make it go away, should be simple
<jrwren> so write 3 ui front ends, or use gtk and make 'em install gtk runtime on windows
<brousch> That is silly
<jrwren> "should be simple" <-- famous words
<brousch> I literally need a single window to pop up for 5 seconds
<brousch> I'm not writing 3 different gui frontends for that
<brousch> Especially when I don't care that how ugly it is
<jrwren> make 'em install growl and just call growl :p
<rick_h_> brousch: it's tougher than it seems. When I tinkered with a svn notification app I was using a WX toaster widget and was still a pita
<brousch> Hm, i might have it
<brousch> Hah, got it
<rick_h_> awesome
<brousch> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/736/
<rick_h_> sweet
<snap-l> http://www.dragonwiki.com/wiki/images/Dragonuser_83-08.jpg
<rick_h_> heh, thinking of upgrading your machine snap-l ?
<snap-l> Totally. You can play chess and look like a bad-ass with that computer
<jrwren> dragon32, i thought maybe it was an early small 32bit proc, but it was 32Kbyte ram, LOL
<snap-l> jrwren: hah
<brousch> Now your desktop can run on Node! http://mixu.net/nwm/
<greg-g> no thanks
<rick_h_> oh come on, it'll be async :P
<jrwren> native x11 binding :)
<jrwren> now i want to write one that runs on twisted
<rick_h_> hah!
<rick_h_> well there is bluetile I think?
<rick_h_> sorry, qtile http://qtile.org/
<jrwren> but is it zomg async and event driven awesome like twisted.
<rick_h_> right, but you should patch the backend to be all awesome async event driven
<rick_h_> or better yet, make it all gevent driven!
<rick_h_> gunicorn mydesktop.py
<rick_h_> :P
<rick_h_> ok, I'm done with my itch to get a shotgun, just can't imagine http://www.freep.com/article/20120716/NEWS01/120716003/Detroit-police-Girl-shoots-self-with-father-s-gun
<jrwren> but that is a webserver
<jrwren> gevent sure.. good call
<jrwren> why shotgun?
<rick_h_> shot some skeet last weekend and had some fun
<jrwren> ah cool
<rick_h_> my FIL is a big skeet shooter and has taken me out up north a few times, got the itch
<jrwren> for contrast, i have a gun, in teh house and my 5yo didn't believe me when I told her so.
<jrwren> she said "nut uh, no you don't."
<jrwren> i had to show it to her to prove it.
<rick_h_> lol
<jrwren> and its always out of reach and never loaded
<jrwren> you can have a gun in the home and not be stupid.
<rick_h_> yea, I know, but man to put yourself in the shoes of someone who's 4yr old child got a hold of it gives me the shudders
<brousch> Not worth the stress to me. The dogs are plenty of protection
<greg-g> content-less PM "pings" are more than worthless
<rick_h_> greg-g: ping!
<brousch> Hehehehe
<greg-g> :P to you and brousch
<rick_h_> greg-g: doh sorry, can't remember what I wanted...I'll reping later :P
<brousch> greg-g: You still in DC?
<jrwren> yeah, i'd hate to be that father, but i'm not that father for good reason.
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea
<greg-g> back at home now, but flying out tomorrow afternoon to Portland (OSCON)
<greg-g> rick_h_: jrwren yeah. My dad owned ~6 guns, mostly collectibles, but he had them all in locking hard cases, with the ammo in the safe
<jrwren> greg-g: say hi to Dianne for me :)
<greg-g> Dianne...
<greg-g> from SRT?
<jrwren> yup
<greg-g> ah, yeah, I'll try to recognize her :)
<jrwren> my dad owned countless guns, often hanging on the wall, possibly loaded. We knew not to touch 'em and we didn't.
<greg-g> I had my bb gun, so I didn't care :)
<greg-g> though, it was fun firing the AK-47
<snap-l> I don't think I will ever own a gun, but I won't stand in the way of people who do
<snap-l> I've fired guns at ranges, though.
 * snap-l is loving this Wendy Carlos Well Tempered Synthesizer album
<rick_h_> !@#*U(@&$(*#@&$@(#  Launchpad...that is all
<snap-l> Hard to believe it was 1969 that this was released. Sounds like it could have been released late 1980s or (with all of the chiptune madness) 2012
<snap-l> rick_h_: That good?
<rick_h_> our JS is a steaming pile of @#$#@$%*^
<brousch> I don't know Perl. Please translate that code into Python for me
<rick_h_> brousch: sure thing
<rick_h_> launchpad = SuckySteamPile(smell_level=MAX).explode()
<brousch> :-D
<rick_h_> jrwren: is my godfather? huh? http://twbirthday.com/mitechie/
<jrwren> huh, that is wierd.
<rick_h_> yea, guess you're older than I am on there by a bit. Wonder if it's some sort of first follower thing
<snap-l> http://twbirthday.com/squeekyhoho/
<rick_h_> you were one of/my first person I followed maybe?
<jrwren> no idea.
<snap-l> Mine is later becaus fucking Twitter let someone squat on my account when it deleted it.
<jrwren> my godfather is hammet
<brousch> It could be whoever's page you were looking at when you signed up
<snap-l> I think it's the person you first tweeted
<snap-l> or the person you tweet the most.
<brousch> Definitely not the second
<brousch> Based on who mine is
<snap-l> WHo is yours?
<brousch> A friend
<brousch> One I never tweet
<snap-l> Man, this is irritating. Stupid Excel won't let me set the font color (in openpyxl)
<snap-l> It's always black
<snap-l> which would be OK, were it not for the cell being black
<brousch> You're so picky
<snap-l> brousch: Yeah, I'm a stickler for these things
<brousch> Dangit. I can't get TTS working on OSX with anything other than the system python
<brousch> Ubuntu is much better about multiple Python versions
<snap-l> brousch: You'll find that true of a lot of things between OSX and Linux
<brousch> I know :P
<brousch> But now I need to write a custom OSX TTS thing
<brousch> There we go. That wasn't so bad
<jrwren> snap-l: do you have that story with the image of the old kb where the ctrl is in caplock position and explains the key bindings?
<jrwren> adm3a, I guess
<snap-l> http://www.catonmat.net/blog/why-vim-uses-hjkl-as-arrow-keys/
<jrwren> ty
<snap-l> np
<snap-l> bah, you can no longer buy those T-shirts.
<brousch> I always feel awesome when I make a new release to PyPi
<snap-l> How does one do a select distinct on a column in sqlalchemy??
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-07-17
<rick_h_> greg-g: <3 re your twitter post. I've tossed small rocks at cars flying by in our neighborhood
<rick_h_> my neighbor and I keep threatening to manually cement a speed bump.
<greg-g> +1
<greg-g> :)
<snap-l> rick_h_: Cranky old man much? :)
<rick_h_> I want to actually send the maker of the count of monte cristo movie to the gallows
<rick_h_> horrific
<snap-l> good morning
<mydogsnameisrudy> hows the weather today and morning
<snap-l> Hot
<snap-l> I'm sweating at my desk
<snap-l> Last updated Jul 17, 2012 - 06:53 AM EDT / 2012.07.17 1053 UTC
<snap-l>    Temperature: 79.0 F (26.1 C)
<mydogsnameisrudy> yep was 79 all nite up here too
<brousch> Wow, tired. Who has some caffeine for me?
<rick_h_> not here, not yet
<brousch> We had our first female attendee at GRPUG last night
<rick_h_> awesome
<brousch> yeah
<brousch> Even at GRWebDev we only have about 10% female attendance
<shakes808> morning
<rick_h_> morn
<brousch> hehehe https://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/Screen%20Shot%202012-07-17%20at%208.13.24%20AM.png
<shakes808> http://deals.woot.com/deals/details/e02a180e-33aa-4ab4-8bed-a2091b213dac/get-2-in-mp3s-via-amazon-exp-07-23#0
<shakes808> brousch: HA HA nice
<snap-l> Morning part 2
<snap-l> Love the conference call music here
<snap-l> And by love, I mean it's the least offensive I've heard in a while
<snap-l> though it's only one song
<shakes808> snap-l: Is this your card? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJkxFhFRFDA
<snap-l> shakes808: I wish
<snap-l> At least it would be Stan Getz
<shakes808> :D Gotta love the classics
<snap-l> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/evilhat/race-to-adventure-a-spirit-of-the-centurytm-board/posts/268363?ref=email&amp;show_token=a385c1c2c7b42385
<brousch> I just realized I'm using OSX and Eclipse for PyOhio. rick_h_ is going to dragon kick me in the head
<rick_h_> I'm defeated today, you can get away with anything. I'll be hiding in my office closet
<brousch> Ut oh
 * rick_h_ is having a 'just go back to bed' morning/week
<snap-l> rick_h_: That good, eh?
<rick_h_> yea, just performed my second rollback this week
<brousch> rick_h_: Did you sign Bookie up for sprints?
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, we were the first
<rick_h_> and expanded this year
<rick_h_> hopefully can get some people interested
<brousch> Cool
<brousch> LAst year was all spent installing it
<rick_h_> yea, this year Iv'e got the new install process with Make, the pypi mirror on my laptop, and the side projects breadability/bookie_parser
<brousch> Brondsema put together a Virtualbox VM so we could hack on Allura last night. That went in fast
<rick_h_> so should be much better this year hopefully
<rick_h_> ah interesting, and put it on a usb disk kind of thing?
<brousch> Oh, right, forgot about the download issues last year
<brousch> Yeah, usb
<brousch> He actually used Vagrant for VM
<rick_h_> but yea, i hope to make it kidn of easy to get going
<snap-l> I'll be interested to see what they've done with Allra since I left.
<rick_h_> apache :)
<brousch> snap-l: Brondsema isn't coming to PyOhio, so you'll have to find out on your own
<snap-l> Bastard
<brousch> Heh
<brousch> The VM is available through the Allura docs if you really want to look
<snap-l> Nah, I was more interested in just talking with Brondsema
<brousch> snap-l: How the heck does he do that machine-gun kick drum? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbPSR7rAdxI
<brousch> Holy crap http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmQMQbHdlzM
<snap-l> brousch: It's just practice
<snap-l> I have a double pedal that I use on my kit. I've gotten pretty high up in speed, but it's been about 10 years since I've played.
<rick_h_> *sigh* http://my.opera.com/hallvors/blog/2012/07/17/twitter-crashes-itself-with-commas?1
<brousch> When I've tried my son's drum, I'm really slow on the bass
<snap-l> I used to have a lot more control with my right foot. I'd drum most of Neil Peart's stuff with one pedal because that's all I had.
<brousch> rick_h_: wtf
<brousch> Is this the next newline vs semicolon flareup?
<rick_h_> appears so I guess
<snap-l> I don't quite understand this semicolon hate
<snap-l> seriously, end of line = semicolon
<Blazeix> this is linked in the comments: http://blog.vjeux.com/2011/javascript/javascript-comma-trick.html
<snap-l> stop getting fancy.
<rick_h_> yea, evidently their IDE can't dedent blocks of code easily
<rick_h_> so it's easier to not use {} and add a comma to every line or something
<snap-l> If you want to write things without { }, use Python
<rick_h_> I don't get it myself on the compiler side
<rick_h_> you lose the {} but add a , for each line in the block
<Blazeix> the , is replacing ; though
<Blazeix> not that i'm in favor of this style
<rick_h_> ah, yea
<rick_h_> so you lose the {} and still have a line ending I guess
<snap-l> I wonder when Douglas Crawford is going to change jslint so whenever you do something like this, it sends him your lat / long so he can come to your house and beat the crap out of you.
<rick_h_> I'm going to write jsbitch and it'll be so mean to you that you'll be looking over your shoulder every time you write a line of JS
<snap-l> "I see you used commas for your statements. I'll bet your mom lays out your Garanamals every morning. Man up, tiger-britches and put in some fucking semi colons"
<Blazeix> it's apparently legit enough that google's closure compile does it
<Blazeix> this: http://vpaste.net/IAGHw?ft=javascript is compiled to this: http://closure-compiler.appspot.com/code/jsc8e6593026fb0bbf4f507e59544531aa1/default.js
<snap-l> Damn minifiers
<rick_h_> Blazeix: right, I was just trying to get my head around the 'doing x saves y% of space'
<rick_h_> but then again this is why I still just do jsmin vs all the heavier compilers
<brousch> commas are smaller than semicolons. You gain about a period of space
<rick_h_> :P
<snap-l> There are idiot web developers who are using commas in place of semicolons because they need to be free to express their individual idiocy. It turns out there are consequences.
<snap-l> -- Douglas Crockford
<snap-l> https://plus.google.com/118095276221607585885/posts/74ZcpCQcio7
<snap-l> Are we having fun yet?
<snap-l> https://ting.com/blog/ics-update-for-ting-samsung-galaxy-sii-owners/
<snap-l> YAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAY!
<snap-l> https://ting.com/blog/is-my-android-update-ready-yet/
<snap-l> So, at some point ICS will be on my phone
<rick_h_> lol
<snap-l> rick_h_: re: ICS, or commagate?
 * brousch groans at commagate
<rick_h_> ics
<snap-l> Hey, it's better than comma comma comma chameleon
<brousch> I think you're missing a couple commas
<snap-l> Doug Crockford Knows, Exception Throw-oh ohs.
<snap-l> Couldn't use semicolons and braces please? They're the bees knees, no commas please-ease.
<snap-l> rick_h_: I'm not holding my breath, but it's nice to know they're still thinking about it. :)
<rick_h_> greg-g: quit casuing trouble asking questions on launchpad blog posts :P
<rick_h_> greg-g: you're supposed to be oscon'ing
<greg-g> leave for SFO in about an hour and half, plenty of time to cause trouble ;)
<rick_h_> curses!
<jrwren> is ting that cool carrier you are using snap-l ?
<jrwren> they pay as you go?
<snap-l> jrwren: Yep
<snap-l> More like pay for what you use, and get refunded for what you don't.
<snap-l> (Aside: I hate it when I find a band that releases their music for free, but it's not CC)
<snap-l> www.aeons.lt
<rick_h_> dammit, I hate people that ruin the coffee shop
<snap-l> jrwren: https://z6oc11q87.ting.com/ is my referrer URL if you decide to join up with Ting.
<snap-l> $25 for you, $25 for me
<rick_h_> don't do it, it's a pyramid scheme! :P
<snap-l> rick_h_: Pthhhhpt
<snap-l> If it is, it's the first one that hasn't made me throw up in my mouth
<snap-l> speaking of coffee-shop ruiners. ;)
<rick_h_> hah!
<snap-l> http://ting.com/twig <- I think this will give you $50 off the price of your device.
<snap-l> Not sure if that's still in effect or not
<jrwren> free as in beer, not as in speech - music free v. cc music
<snap-l> jrwren: Yeah, there's plenty of bands I would love to play if they'd release as CC
<snap-l> amazing bands, not on a label
<_stink_> snap-l: do you typically talk with those bands personally about it?  or just wait and hope they release something as CC?
<snap-l> Depends on the band
<snap-l> sometimes I will
<snap-l> so far not much luck in getting them to switch
<_stink_> for the ones you talk with, what kind of reactions do you get?
<_stink_> like other than outcome
<_stink_> do any get angry or somesuch?
<snap-l> Usually they just say "well, it's out for free"
<_stink_> hmm
<snap-l> or "Go ahead and play it"
<snap-l> which misses the point
<_stink_> yeah
<_stink_> ok, just curious.
<snap-l> Yeah, I usually don't call the bands out, because I'd rather not have a pile-on for their license.
<snap-l> I've had a handful of bands change, but they generally initiated contact
<snap-l> I got contacted by this band's promoter to play music on my show.
<snap-l> http://titanseve.bandcamp.com/album/life-apocalypse
<snap-l> explained that I'd love to, but it's not CC
<snap-l> I think the biggest problem with CC is the thought that if it's somehow CC, you can't charge money for it
<snap-l> or people won't pay you for it
<snap-l> And then I have folks in the podcaster-sphere that bitch whenever I play something that is "behind a paywall"
<_stink_> heh, you can't win.
<snap-l> Well, I'd like to err on the side of the artists being able to make back their costs
<snap-l> I've also seen bands lock up their later output because they need to make money
<snap-l> and say "I'm releasing this [without CC] because I need to make my costs"
<snap-l> breaks my heart.
<snap-l> mostly because it makes it harder for me to make a show. ;)
<snap-l> but also because I can't promote their later stuff
<snap-l> I get nervous when I see CC bands I like release their next album because it's a crap-shoot if it'll remain CC
<_stink_> i wonder how successful that is for them.
<_stink_> the change in license
<_stink_> away from CC
<snap-l> I'm not sure
<snap-l> I've seen some bands relent (Returning We Hear the Larks)
<snap-l> I've seen other bands release their debut under CC, and then nothing else (Diablo Swing Orchestra)
<snap-l> Though I think Diablo Swing Orchestra got signed to Candlelight Records
<Milyardo> Irony:Switch away from CC to cover cost when signing up with a label, end up with more debt than before.
<snap-l> Sadly
<snap-l> Have seen more than one band drop their label for lack of support
<snap-l> I swear, Excel loves to screw with me.
<brousch> Whew. Just went through creating a Django app on Heroku again, including handling static files
<brousch> I was smart and wrote it down this time
<snap-l> Fuck
<snap-l> Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck
<snap-l> Figured out a color issue I've been having with Excel for several days now.
<snap-l> Figured out a color issue I've been having with Excel for several days now.
<snap-l> Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck
<snap-l> Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck
<snap-l> Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck
<_stink_> isn't that a good thing?
<brousch> snap-l: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-xKUU5sWS4
<snap-l> Those note were written by God and handed down to the greatest band in the world, the motherfuckin' TIME.
<snap-l> _stink_: Other than it being Excel, this would be a good thing
<PainBank> snap-l: thanks, needed that
<snap-l> Thank brousch for the video. :)
<brousch> This just opened and is literally the closest restaurant to my house. http://www.mlive.com/business/west-michigan/index.ssf/2012/07/kill_some_bad_guys_for_dinner.html
<snap-l> brousch: Expect it to close in 2 years
<snap-l> Neat concept, but it'll get overrun with douchebags and kids
<brousch> It moved into a former restaurant building that had been abandonded for at least 2 years
<brousch> Why would it close if it's overrun with patrons?
<snap-l> Ah, right, it's in GR
<snap-l> nevermind. It'll be overrun with with nice people who say please and thank you.
<snap-l> was thinking of Detroit, where we can't have nice things.
<brousch> It's snuggled up to a douchey apartment complex
<snap-l> http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/17t3pb8sle9t9jpg/original.jpg < -Steve Wozniak's backpack
<rick_h_> I'd hate to see his wireless bills
<greg-g> stupid
<snap-l> He probably gets special dispensation for just carrying their device. :)
<snap-l> Apparently he uses every one of them
<snap-l> First thing I can think of: when will they have multiple-sim phones
<greg-g> sure
<snap-l> There's no reason to have to carry two wireless devices for work / home
<greg-g> didn't I see a commecial where sprint had a phone that had two settings, one for work and one for personal, it kept the apps/sync accounts separate somehow?
<snap-l> greg-g: That's what I'd like to have
<rick_h_> yea, they make some like that
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-07-18
<rick_h_droid> howdy
<gamerchick02> hey rick_h_droid
<gamerchick02> how's it going?
<rick_h_droid> http://blog.kippt.com/2012/07/17/tags-are-here/ bah...knew i should have taken a year off to hack on bookie
<rick_h_droid> gamerchiv
<rick_h_droid> bah
<rick_h_droid> gamerchick good,setting up, my tablet
<gamerchick02> what tablet?
<gamerchick02> a Nexus 7?
<gamerchick02> if so, i will be insanely jealous
<rick_h_droid> yea finally arrived
<gamerchick02> >_<
 * gamerchick02 is jealous
<rick_h_droid> so getting email irc and such on it
 * gamerchick02 has no tablet
<gamerchick02> :-D
<rick_h_droid> well we'll see how owning one goes.
<rick_h_droid> got it mostly for dev stuff
<gamerchick02> ah, dev stuff
<gamerchick02> i've been waffling on getting a tablet. maybe next year
<gamerchick02> i've spent far too much money recently. new computers, new shirts (though in my defense i needed new shirts for work)
<rick_h_droid> heh yea pace yourself :-)
<gamerchick02> that kippt thing is cool
<gamerchick02> i'm stuck in pinboard right now though
<gamerchick02> delicious is dead.
<rick_h_droid> bookie! I've been doing the full contemt
<rick_h_droid> search since day 1
<gamerchick02> yes! i know
<rick_h_droid> and tags as search vehicles
<rick_h_droid> That's why I posted that
<gamerchick02> it's brilliant. but your system wasn't as robust as pinboards when i switched from delicious
<rick_h_droid> Holy crap the speak recognition on this thing is awesome
<gamerchick02> nice
<rick_h_droid> No I understand in that's why I say that I wish I could take a year off to work on it
<gamerchick02> i'm still jealous of your awesome new tablet.
<gamerchick02> see, i'd use it as an ereader.
<gamerchick02> *shrug*
<rick_h_droid> It's much faster to use the speech thing to type but I feel goofy speaking
<gamerchick02> hah
<gamerchick02> you're speaking to your tablet.
<rick_h_droid> Kindle for the win as far as a reader goes
<gamerchick02> that's what the boy says
<rick_h_droid> Yes got the faster speech recognition from jelly bean
<gamerchick02> but also i like the idea of having a full android experience
<gamerchick02> that's why i wouldn't be opposed to an ipad. full tablet experience.
<gamerchick02> ios, but yeah
<rick_h_droid> yea that's why i got this one for dev
<gamerchick02> nice
<rick_h_droid> That and a cheaper price
<gamerchick02> totally
<gamerchick02> the ipad is so expensive
<brousch> And crappy to dev on
<brousch> And expensive to dev for
<rick_h_droid> Yeah and then you're into the all apple system you either have it all you have it none
<gamerchick02> yeah
<gamerchick02> i know
<gamerchick02> the air is treating me right though. i paid for an email client. Sparrow is the shit, as far as i'm concerned.
<gamerchick02> and it was on sale this past weekend. half off. hah
<gamerchick02> but i don't like itunes
<rick_h_droid> Yes sparrow was a big hit the last year
<gamerchick02> i can see why
<gamerchick02> i want Geary to support nesting tags and multiple accounts.
<gamerchick02> all i need is a simple email client like Sparrow
<gamerchick02> Tbird is heavy for what i do
<gamerchick02> i'm a gmailâ¦ lover. ahem.
<rick_h_droid> mutt!
<rick_h_droid> :-P
<gamerchick02> does it support tags natively or does it create folders for your tags?
<gamerchick02> ok. History Detectives is gonna be on
<rick_h_droid> no
<rick_h_droid> have fun
<gamerchick02> no?
<gamerchick02> mutt?
<gamerchick02> no strange imap folders?
<gamerchick02> i can muck with mutt tomorrow night.
<gamerchick02> i'll be in IRC tomorrow night i'm sure. see you then. or thursday or whatever. :)
<rick_h_droid> brousch so what are the tablet apps I should have?
<brousch> rick_h_: Same as phone for me: evernote, dropbox, kindle reader
<rick_h_droid> yea cool
<brousch> hootsuite, google reader, gmail
<brousch> Last I heard BotBrew had not been fixed for JB yet. Something about paths changing
<brousch> But SL4A should work
<rick_h_droid> yea default twitter client sucks
<brousch> I pay for hootsuite since I control a dozen twitter/facebook accounts
<rick_h_droid> kaiten mail should pass ok
<rick_h_droid> ugh
<rick_h_droid> lol it's bookie feature day http://blog.pinboard.in/2012/07/api_authentication_tokens/
<rick_h_droid> gah i suck
 * greg-g waves from the Double Tree hotel in Portland
<rick_h_droid> hey greg-g
<rick_h_> morning
<snap-l> Morning
<snap-l> Hopefully we'll get a nice cold front this morning
<rick_h_droid> yea, would be nice
<rick_h_droid> Right now I could use a week just of snow
<mydogsnameisrudy> ACK SNOW IS A BAD WORD
<rick_h_> my sweet and lovely snow!
<brousch> rick_h_: Were you up all night fondling your 7 incher?
<snap-l> http://www.mug.org/meetings/ <- Would folks register here if you're planning on coming to MUG in August, and  give me some feedback on the process?
<rick_h_> no names?
<snap-l> No, it'll associate you with your contact information if you have some.
<brousch> The page layout is kind of wonky
<snap-l> brousch: How so?
<snap-l> (And yes, there's not enough detain on the page about the meeting)
<rick_h_> moved register button to "Regular MUG meeting" | left align the When/Location | reigster page has no title that I'm registering | print icon under "Past meetings link" | landing page after looks nice
<rick_h_> snap-l: yea, meant lack of speaker name/detail on the first page
<brousch> On the first page, the When is indented too much and the map
<brousch> Heh, rick_h_ got all the stuff I noticed
<rick_h_> :)
<snap-l> Most of that is not under my control. :)
<rick_h_> Blazeix broke it!
<rick_h_> :P
<snap-l> I mean all I have to work with is [civicrm id=...]
<brousch> Ah
<brousch> Not much control over styles?
<snap-l> Not really, though I think part of the problems are related to our theming.
<snap-l> and how civicrm shims itself into our pages.
<brousch> I didn't register since I'm not going
<snap-l> brousch: np
<snap-l> Thank you for checking it, though
<rick_h_> <3 this http://sriramk.com/unsolicitedyahoo.html
<brousch> snap-l: Oh come on now http://www.mug.org/groups/
<brousch> At least change it to East Michigan
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> poor brousch and his 20 twitter accounts is going to get you
<snap-l> brousch: We were here before you. :)
<brousch> Don't make me submit all of these to your curated list http://conga-wm.org/group-list/
<snap-l> brousch: I'll be more than happy to make a link to conga. ;)
<brousch> It's the "Technology Groups in Michigan" I'm objecting to, not the name of MUG
<snap-l> Updated. Happy now? Sheesh!
<snap-l> Westies be hatin'
<brousch> We're being oppressed!
<snap-l> Yeah, by the van van vander van vander van vans
<brousch> snap-l: Is that the best list of East MI groups you know of? If so I'll link to it
<snap-l> brousch: AFAIK
<rick_h_> needs to get the new node and lisp groups on there sometime
<rick_h_> http://www.meetup.com/DetNode/ and http://lisp.meetup.com/cities/us/mi/detroit/
<brousch> Yeah, I just noticed a few missing and defunct groups in my list
<snap-l> brousch: http://www.mug.org/groups/
<rick_h_> http://www.detroitlambdalounge.com/ sorry better link
<snap-l> Added a link back to CONGA
<shakes808> morning
<brousch> snap-l: I feel like we're a web ring
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> shakes808:
<snap-l> Don't ever speak those words together again
<rick_h_> except, put those on one line
<brousch> eh?
<Blazeix> snap-l: maybe we can take a look at the register page tonight at chc
<Blazeix> there shouldn't be very many styles defined by the hosting page
<Blazeix> so maybe civicrm can be tweaked
<Blazeix> it looks like they give us a bunch of useful classes/ids
<snap-l> Blazeix: That would be cool. Thanks!
<brousch> Ah geez. The Detroit Science Center and the Detroit Children's Museum are both closed. You guys need to get your shit together over there
<rick_h_> yea, that sucks. The boy loved the children's museum
<brousch> The science center was frickin awesome
<snap-l> Are they closed for good, or reorganizing?
<brousch> They've been closed for about a year, with no new news on their pages
<widox> the science center was recently purchased (in the past month or so) and the new owner is trying to get it opened back up
<brousch> widox: Excellent
<snap-l> brousch: Don't get your hopes up. THere's a wide divide between planning and doing in Detroit.
<brousch> Dream killer
<snap-l> Detroit has too many pimps and not enough hoes
<snap-l> Lots of folks who like to talk big, act big, and get paid big for doing no work
<jrwren> they ran out of $$$
<snap-l> Detroit, or the museums?
<snap-l> Because it's true on both counts. :)
<brousch> It was expensive and really busy when we were there
<jrwren> both
<Blazeix> rick_h_: did you see this? http://www.detroitlambdalounge.com/events/73705572/
<Blazeix> it's the lisp-ish user group, but they're talking about Go.
<rick_h_> Blazeix: no, didn't see that cool
<rick_h_> ugh on long CHC night?
<Blazeix> yeah... i need to increase my number of wednesdays per week
<Blazeix> too many cool things going on
<rick_h_> yea, starting to pick up
<brousch> Too much awesome, not enough time
<brousch> Especially if you want to tuck your kid in at night
<Blazeix> teach your kid Go, bring him to lambda lounge, tuck him in there.
<brousch> Working on it
<rick_h_> http://linux.oracle.com/switch/centos/ O M G
<rick_h_> snap-l: they've taken your favorite method of distributing software to a new level
<snap-l> Oh that's lovely.
<snap-l> They're basically removing your old redhat repos and replacing them with Oracle
<rick_h_> right "and installing a few required packages"
<snap-l> Inasmuch <- They fucking used the word insasmuch
<rick_h_> lol, I couldn't tell if it was an onion article or not at first lol
<snap-l> This is crazy
<rick_h_> hey, what's not to like? :)
<snap-l> Well, let me think
<snap-l> Begins with OR, ends with E, and has ACL in the middle
<snap-l> What'll be fun is if Oracle changes its mind on the free part, and sends out a package to alter the bargain
<snap-l> Refresh my memory: is formatting a log message a bad practice? (i.e.: log.info('Formatting in a log message is {mood}'.format(mood=...))
<rick_h_> bad because that function call is made even if you don't have logging at that level
<rick_h_> good if you want pretty log messages and don't care about the perf impact
<snap-l> What's the better way to do it, then?
<snap-l> And the logging is at info, so perf impact is negligible anyway. :)
<rick_h_> I wouldn't worry about it then
<snap-l> OK
<snap-l> Thank you. :)
<rick_h_> you have my blessing my son
 * rick_h_ puts down this rosary beadds
<snap-l> Thank you, sensei
<snap-l> DOmo aRIgatou, sensei-san
<rick_h_> just don't do it in a million row loop :P
<snap-l> (whoops)
<snap-l> ;)
<snap-l> rick_h_: In this code, that would be the least of the performance hits. ;)
<rick_h_> yea, why I'm giving you your answer to the question, but doubt you should worry about it
<rick_h_> oh lovely http://www.satechi.net/index.php/faq/
<jrwren> put your faq content here, lol
<rick_h_> yea, went looking for online versions of the device manuals with no luck
<snap-l> "Our product so easy to use, you no need manual. Please do the needful to ensure proper operation device"
<rick_h_> now I can't believe I don't have a single item small enough to hit a little reset button. No paper == no paperclips any more I guess
<brousch> hair pin?
 * brousch snickers
<rick_h_> umm yea...I've got 4 of those in my backpack :P
<brousch> Oh, you're out and about
<rick_h_> yea, at the coffee shop where else?
<snap-l> rick_h_: Do you have a mechanical pencil?
<brousch> get a stirring stick and break it lengthwise
<rick_h_> snap-l: not with me no, only pends that wont fit
<rick_h_> I was trying a straw folding up with no success
<snap-l> Ask loudly in the coffee shop if someone has a syringe you could borrow.
<brousch> yes!
<snap-l> I'm sure someone will cop to it.
<snap-l> "It'll only be a minute"
<brousch> Or go in the alley out back and just pick one up
<rick_h_> psh, I'm in clarkston not detroit
<brousch> One virtue of living in the Tha D
<snap-l> brousch: Nah, that's unsafe. You might get the AIDS
<brousch> Drop a glass on the ground. One of the shards will fit
<rick_h_> hah
<brousch> Wow, I just had a business idea. You know how at the airport they confiscate things like knives and such, but some people don't want to just leave them behind. You could setup a service to hang around at TSA checkpoints and mail those items to your home.
<snap-l> brousch: Right, because the post office has no regulations about firearms or knives.
<brousch> UPS
<brousch> Lighters and pocket knives come to mind
<snap-l> SOmething tells me if it were profitable / plausible, someone would have already done it.
<brousch> DREAMKILLER
<snap-l> I'm a pro
<snap-l> Hey, maybe that's a business
<rick_h_> OMG! found a way to run bookmarklets from Chrome on android
<rick_h_> oh happy day!
<snap-l> Pay me $500 to listen to your start-up pitch. Then I can tell you you're an idiot. :)
<rick_h_> ah damn readable.bmark.us looks good on the N7
<rick_h_> and yay I can submit to bookie pages from the phone/tablet now.
<snap-l> I wonder if negativefeedback.com is available
<snap-l> Damn, already registered
<brousch> It could work if you can give constructive criticism, not just call them an idiot
<snap-l> whois yourstartupisstupid.com
<snap-l> that one is taken too
<brousch> It's just a placeholder site
<snap-l> whois yourmomthinksyourstupid.com
<brousch> You can buy it for $500
<snap-l> There we go
<brousch> wrong your
<snap-l> Oh, wait, Typo.
<snap-l> both are free
<brousch> yostartupsowhack.com
<snap-l> dorkland: RT @greywulf: I should create a website called Nonstarter where people post     their bad ideas and other folks pay them to make sure they never happen.
<brousch> I think that was in a web comic
<rick_h_> ah gary https://twitter.com/garybernhardt/status/225649253966561280
<snap-l> Sometimes I think Gary posts things just to be controversial
<rick_h_> oh yea
<rick_h_> the front of the line of trolls not to feed
<brousch> I was talking to Dave about Mongo since SF uses it for all data in Allura
<rick_h_> heh yea and I've heard some good/bad stories
<brousch> He seemed to have missed all of the Mongo loses data quips
<snap-l> brousch: He had a good operations team
<rick_h_> nice thing is that they were using it initially for Views/collections of information available so losses were just 'rebuild the view'
<brousch> He said it's been very good. No problems over a couple of years
<snap-l> brousch: It may have been better, but initially it was pretty fast and loose with data
<snap-l> it's very easy to set MOngo up so it will fuck you, hard.
<rick_h_> yea, don't setup 8 servers :)
<snap-l> Mongo always felt like they were playing fast and loose with the data
<snap-l> "live fast, play hard, and leave an exquisite corpse"
<brousch> Bah, data is cheap. Just make some more if you lose it
<snap-l> Well, they started using it as the point of record. That's when things got interesting.
<derekv> leaving a corpse is not enviromentally friendly.  unless you leave it somewhere nobody can get their hands on it and fill it with chemicals.
<rick_h_> ummm, ok that's interesting
<snap-l> Good to know? :)
<rick_h_71> http://db.tt/s8uA7KVx sweet it works!
<snap-l> What is that?
<snap-l> Bluetooth speaker?
<rick_h_71> Bluetooth speaker for the n7
<snap-l> (Squeezebox. ;) )
<snap-l> Get Squeeze Player and Squeeze Controller on that bad boy
<rick_h_71> Did not know that I could pipe my tablet youtube watching over to the squeezebox
<rick_h_71> or movies etc
<rick_h_71> I've got the controller
<snap-l> IF you don't mind piping just the audio, it'll work fine. :)
<snap-l> I see ESPN Radion on there. :)
<snap-l> It won't do video, though
<snap-l> but if you want to use the N7 like a walkman, it'll work nicely with Squeeze Player
<snap-l> http://www.squeezeplayer.com/
<rick_h_> well it's a podcast I was playing to test with
<rick_h_> but cool, will try it out
<snap-l> It's how I use my phone with the Squeezebox if I don't want to disturb folks
<rick_h_> well the thing is to play content on there with a better speaker that's still portable and wireless
<snap-l> Yeah, that's fine
<snap-l> I'm not saying don't do it that way. I'm saying you can incorporate teh Squeezebox onto the tablet. :)
<snap-l> Apparently Squeezebox is my new GTD> ;)
<rick_h_> yea, for me the only thing the squeezebox plays is hte streaming radio stuff and pandora for the boy
<snap-l> Expand your horizons
<snap-l> Don't make me have to schedule a demo
<rick_h_> so hmm, squeeze player let's me play on the tablet, but I'd want to push to the squeezebox since it has the speaker on it
<rick_h_> I must be missing how I need to use this. If I could push my google music streaming to the squeezebox that'd be cool
<rick_h_> but the squeezebox has very little content on its own
<snap-l> It has to start from the server to the remote device
<snap-l> So the server would have to know about what's on the Google music service
<snap-l> I don't think that's set up yet.
<rick_h_> right, the squeezebox is mostly just an extra speaker that can play streaming radio/pandora or I've got ot wire it in
<snap-l> They're "working on it" but for now it's not possible.
<snap-l> Ideally, you'd have teh SB have access to the local files that you put into Google PLay
<snap-l> and have it serve that way
<rick_h_> right, but they only exist ona backup drive some where
<rick_h_> I moved all my stuff to google music so I didn't need the local files to move around
<rick_h_> just use google music on phone/laptop/tablet
<rick_h_> and the portable BT speaker helps that work better across the house
<snap-l> Right
<snap-l> All of my stuff is local on my home machine
<brousch> Get a home server
<snap-l> so I use Squeezebox to serve it out throughout the house / to work.
<rick_h_> I'm the opposite
<rick_h_> ok, I just want to make sure I'm not missing some way I can use the SB
<rick_h_> sounds like not at the moment
<snap-l> Well, you can use the SB player to route what you'd normally play from the SB server to your tablet
<snap-l> or to use the Squeezebox controller app to control the Radio or vice versa
<snap-l> but that's about it.
<snap-l> (i.e.: I can use the phone to control all of the connected Squeezebox devices in the house)
<rick_h_> right, I've got the SB remote on here for that part
<snap-l> THe Player means you can use it as a receiver.
<snap-l> The only locker they support is mp3tunes
<snap-l> http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?13622-iPhone <- Wow, look at this guy's sig
<snap-l> THat's hardcore
<snap-l> Got another Ting phone for my FIL
<jjesse> you like TING?
<snap-l> hopefully it'll replace the Tracfone he's been using
<snap-l> Yep
<jjesse> i think it is sprint right?
<snap-l> It is sprint
<snap-l> So if Sprint sucks in your area, it'll still suck
<snap-l> but not as hard.
<snap-l> Thing is, he barely uses the phone save for emergencies
<snap-l> and he has a LG phone that's a piece of crap
<snap-l> and I HATE HATE HATE Tracfone
<snap-l> I want nothing more to do with them
<snap-l> so I can combine his phone bill (aka 3 month expiration bullshit from Trafone) into my Ting phone bill
<snap-l> he uses the same minutes, same text messaging, data, etc.
<jjesse> did you have to break a contract or did you just wait until your contract was up?
<jjesse> because that's my issue right now
<snap-l> I didn't have a contract (was using tracfone prior)
<jjesse> i'm locked in until december of 2013
<jjesse> i think
<snap-l> They had a sweepstakes for paying contract breaking fees.
<snap-l> but that's past
<snap-l> Are you already with Sprint?
<jjesse> nope vzw
<snap-l> You might want to check to see how much the termination gfee might ve.
<snap-l> be, even
<snap-l> I'v egot someone coming out Friday.
<snap-l> Hopefully it won't be another dance of the "well, you have great signal strength"
<snap-l> Yeah, I have great signal strength, except when I don't.
<derekv> You have the signal strength of ten men!
<devinheitmueller> Signal strength and signal quality are two entirely different metrics.
<derekv> SNR
<devinheitmueller> Indeed.
<snap-l> WEll, their bullshit strength is at max capacity
<snap-l> Started Unicast Maintenance Ranging - No Response received - T3 time-out
<derekv> You may want to upgrade : http://www.atarimagazines.com/compute/issue156/S2_How_to_upgrade_your_.php
<devinheitmueller> Wow, I remember Compute!
<snap-l> I <3 computer
<snap-l> Compute, even. :)
<derekv> You know its not an actual disadvantage, but for some reason it griefs me that I can't just have a function in Java, its got to go in a class.
<derekv> DoSomething.doItNow()
<derekv> I feel like if I'm creating a Class, its because I have some objects I want to create, and if I want to create objects, its so I can store some state.
<derekv> Math.addTwoNumbers(a,b) is retarded
<derekv> Actions.kick();  Actions.stab();
<derekv> maybe there's something wrong with the way I'm thinking.
<snap-l> No, it's just that Java is idiotic about how it handles objects
<snap-l> What the hell is with pep8 and this bullshit under/over indenting for visual indent
<derekv> AbstractMockDelegateFascadeFactoryFactory.createAbstractMockDelegateFascadeFactory().createDefaultMockDelegateFacade().toString().
<_stink_> now cast it to String :P
<snap-l> Makes me positively pine for hungarian notation
<snap-l> Fuck
<rick_h_71> snap-l what has pep8 got you annoyed over now?
<snap-l> main.py|253 col 13| E127 continuation line over-indented for visual indent
<snap-l> I have hundreds of these fucking things
<snap-l> over-indented, under-indented
<snap-l> frankly, I don't give a flying fuck what pep8 thinks of that indenting, it's what vim defaults to
<rick_h_71> so...sounds like some dupe code to refactor into a few indented properly?
<rick_h_71> lol
<snap-l> Oh fuck me
<snap-l> I'm doing the indenting to get around pep8's idiotic 80 colum limit
<snap-l> tired of danicing for PEP8s amusement
<rick_h_71> dude seriously, once you get over that hurdle it all better.
<snap-l> WHAT HURDLE?
<snap-l> Why is it even bitching about second-line indents in the first place?
<snap-l> THis is what VIM indents to
<snap-l> I'm not going to fight vim just to please pep8's idiotic indenting
<snap-l> There's no pleasing this piece of shit
<snap-l> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/KlRYQUY0aBZt7Q5uNcfB/
<snap-l> OK, how am I supposed to make this pep8-worthy
<snap-l> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/738/ or this
<brousch> Darn django staticfiles had me scratching my head again
<rick_h_71> snapl just indent 4?
<rick_h_71> https://github.com/mitechie/breadability/blob/master/src/breadability/client.py
<rick_h_71> snap-l ^
<jrwren> snap-l: write a pep8ifier
<jrwren> i mean really, if a tool an complain about hte whitespace, it can FIX the fucking whitespace already!!!!!
<derekv> its weds already
<rick_h_droid> ugh crazy lady is in the room.
 * rick_h_droid crosses fingers she bails
<derekv> ?
<rick_h_droid> oh heh...we had a crazy lady episode with the room before
<derekv> Tell her that everyone in the weekly Voodoo Curses Club really hates it if things get delayed.
<derekv> Todays meeting is important because we'll be selecting new "study subjects"
<rick_h_droid> lol
<rick_h_droid> I'll give it a try
<rick_h_droid> Ok updated keyboard so sweet
<rick_h_droid> and split ftw bwuhahahaha
<snap-l> Ugh, split keyboard too?
<rick_h_droid> in landscape mode
<snap-l> Ah, OK
<snap-l> THat makes a little more sense.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-07-19
<snap-l> mutt
<snap-l> bah
<rick_h_droid> Not sure you do not want to see your neighbors dinking around all day.
<rick_h_droid> morning
<shakes808> morning
<MaskedDriver> morning shakes808
<rick_h_> hey shakes808, everything cool? Not seen you around CHC for a while
<rick_h_> or is snap-l putting you to extra work :P
<shakes808> rick_h_: Yeah, everything is fine. The summers get a little hectic for me. I get my son a lot more and I do side jobs that pick up a little more. You know, anything to do fun things with my son :D
<shakes808> I should be there next week.
<brousch> shakes808: How old is your son?
<shakes808> 6
<rick_h_> shakes808: ah, all good stuff then
<rick_h_> shakes808: ok cool, wanted to make sure we didn't scare you off or anything
<shakes808> HA HA no. I am actually switching gears a little on my programming. My buddy wants to do some games and other little projects, so he and I have been setting up his server so that I can access it and have been testing that out. Getting back to C++ and I am using Eclipse, which I don't know too well. C++ within Linux is interesting or within Eclipse, not sure since they are two new variables. I am used to MS VS and what not
<shakes808> And possibly another one using JAVA. .... should be fun lol
<rick_h_> java? sounds depressing :P
<shakes808> lol He is mainly a JAVA dev on his own time and what he is focusing on in his studies. He works with C#. He likes some of the things that C# has and is creating his own library to implement some of the same features in JAVA. I guess with whatever he is working on in JAVA there isn't any good libraries for it already.
<jrwren> jabba!
<jrwren> ever time I see a jvm installed on a system, I die a little inside
<shakes808> lol
<jrwren> c++ in linux is so damned easy compared to windows C++ that it hurts.
<jrwren> teh windows APIs are so complex compared to most of the linux libraries for C++ that i don't know why people dev or windows.
<jrwren> *for*
<jrwren> i know it is judgemental of me, but I honestly think very little of anyone who chooses to program in java.
<rick_h_> elitist! :P
<jrwren> nah.
<brousch> hater!
<jrwren> this is a case of ANYTHING else would be ok.
<jrwren> yeah, hater.
<jrwren> but i feel it is an informed hate.
<brousch> You need Java to dev for Android
<brousch> That bugs the snot out of me
<snap-l> I could never get the hang of Thursdays
<jrwren> that is one of the reasons I dislike android
<jrwren> snap-l: wasn't it Tuesdays?
<snap-l> No, it's Thursday
<snap-l> I looked it up. :)
<shakes808> brousch: would you rather code in JAVA or Obj-C?
<snap-l> shakes808: Tough call
<snap-l> Though I have far more respect for ObjC than Java.
<brousch> shakes808: Python
<snap-l> http://stackoverflow.com/a/690760/535883 <- The comment on this just hurt my brain
<shakes808> snap-l: Why is that?
<snap-l> Or "Remember, Objective-C works like Java, just remember to add asterisks to variables that point to Obj-C objects." â Yar Jun 14 '10 at 3:43
<brousch> alloc?
<brousch> You have to manage your own memory?
<snap-l> Saying it's just like Java makes me cry
<jrwren> snap-l: excellent. Thursdays!
<jrwren> i'd rather code in obj-c than java.  Hello Closures! :)
<snap-l> "just add asterisks" belies a lack of understanding for what those asterisks mean
<jrwren> yes, and low and medium grade computer science deptarments hand out compsci degrees to kids that never understand them
<jrwren> objective-c works like java the same way that python works like scheme
<snap-l> I had a hard time with pointers, and was like a monkey just adding asterisks
<snap-l> I wish someone would have spent more time teaching me C than teaching me pascal
<devinheitmueller> If one asterisk doesn't work, just add another!
<snap-l> unfortunately I wasn't ready at the time
<jrwren> while I like what joel says about students and pointers, I do think that better teachers could teach them... better :)
<jrwren> turbo pascal has pointers in a way very similar to C IIRC
<snap-l> Well, they're quite simple, but also an easy way to get yourself into trouble
<brousch> I would plug in 1 *, then **, then & until it worked
<jrwren> rofl, you guys are just depressing me.
<devinheitmueller> brousch: you forgot (void *)....
<devinheitmueller> :-)
<brousch> After I switched majors they switched to Java from C++
<snap-l> brousch: I can neither confirm or deny that I've done that in the past. :\
<jrwren> brousch: the sign of a shitty school right there, be glad you changed majors :)
<devinheitmueller> Many, if not most, schools switched from C++ to Java in the mid 1990's.
<brousch> jrwren: That was The University of Michigan
<snap-l> Yeah, I don't quite understand why Java became PAscal++
<devinheitmueller> I guess what I said isn't contradictory to jrwren.
<snap-l> Java is pretty shitty as a learning language.
<brousch> I think they switched because they were pushing OO and Java was pure OO. Also it's easier to learn than C++
<snap-l> I'm glad Python is taking over the role of the learning language
<snap-l> at least it's pretty consistent in it's behavior.
<jrwren> brousch: Umich what? flint?
<jrwren> brousch: i know for sure that umich AA never switched from C++ to anything. I work with a lot of recent grads and their mastery if C++ is very impressive
<jrwren> for universities, java was great, most profs are shitty programmers and dont' really understand c++ certainly not well enough to teach it. So shitty profs and poor CS dept. flocked to java.
<rick_h_> devinheitmueller: yea, GMI/Kettering was doing Java when I was there in 96/97/98
<rick_h_> at UM Flint when I was there algo was C++ with Java as its own class
<jrwren> rick_h_: WHAT?!? in 96 they were still doing Modula-2 !
<rick_h_> jrwren: no, java
<snap-l> jrwren: I think they just didn't want to get into memory mamagement concepts early on
<jrwren> snap-l: that is very valid. that is what scheme is for :)
<snap-l> unfortunately, it bred some pretty poor concepts.
<snap-l> jrwren: God, I did Modula-2 and ADA in school (89-93)
<jrwren> rick_h_: my best friend went in 95/96 and did modula-2 for his intro and algorithms courses.
<rick_h_> javascript for learning! so easy to use/do.
<brousch> jrwren: It would have been probably 1997. U-M Ann Arbor, LSA Comp Sci, not EECS
<brousch> I don't know what they did after 1999
<snap-l> ADA was a fucking disaster of a language.
<jrwren> brousch: must have been a brief experiment, its all C++ now, most guys I know went through LSA
<snap-l> It was like everything you hated about strong typing, with COBOL thrown in for good measure
<rick_h_> jrwren: don't know then. I had several fraternity/dorn guys in CS doing Java
<jrwren> weird.
<devinheitmueller> From what I understand at the time, the goal was to introduce people to programming without having to learn the nuances of pointers (which are often a trouble spot for newer programmers).  They got what they wanted, unfortunately.
<rick_h_> jrwren: I was doing MSE at the time so wasn't taking them myself
<jrwren> snap-l: I love ADA.
<snap-l> devinheitmueller: IN spades
<devinheitmueller> I think the breakdown was that most of those people *never* ended up learning pointers.
<jrwren> yup
<devinheitmueller> ... which most fans of high level languages might argue as evolution.
<snap-l> jrwren: OK< I'm looking at some examples (it's been since 1993 since I touched Ada)
<devinheitmueller> My father used to complain that the invention of the C compiler resulted in highly inefficient code.
<devinheitmueller> .... compared to assembly which is what he worked in.
<snap-l> and I have to say... Um...
<snap-l> Ada is not as bad as I remember it.
<snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ada_(programming_language)#Control_structures
<snap-l> In fact, it looks... pythonic. ;)
<snap-l> If Python had Pascal as an ancestor like Ada did
<jrwren> yay!
<snap-l> I hated Python initially too
<jrwren> i still hate python :)
<snap-l> jrwren: bullshit. :)
<jrwren> i love python initially, then the 1.4 to 1.6 broke my code and it pissed me off.
<rick_h_> you're supposed to hate every language you use else you don't know it well enough
<jrwren> rick_h_: EXACTLY!
<shakes808> So with all this back and forth with the different languages, what is the prospect of Python become a standard?
<snap-l> shakes808: Don't worry about standards
<rick_h_> there's no such thing as a programming language being the standard
<jrwren> shakes808: i don't understand the question.
<shakes808> and a standard for what? (example: C++ with games)
<snap-l> Those are for people who don't want to spend time developing and understanding
<rick_h_> they exist for a reason...though ruby I don't quite get still...and best tool for the job
<snap-l> Python is not as blessed with game development libraries like C / C++ is
<shakes808> Doesn't everything get broken down to Assembly?
<snap-l> shakes808: Machine language
<rick_h_> well games == performance and python isn't going to be C speeds
<snap-l> Assembly is a bit of a different beast
<rick_h_> best tool for job
<shakes808> yeah, but isn't Assembly the "first" language before maching?
<shakes808> machine
<snap-l> shakes808: assembly is just a standard for us to understand what's going on in the machine
<snap-l> it's not what the machine passes around internally
<snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_language#Assembly_languages
<snap-l> but yes, it eventually all gets moved down to machine code
<snap-l> the difference is how many layers it takes to get there
<snap-l> C is fast because it writes code specific to the processor architecture
<shakes808> So, if everything gets brought down to the machine code, could you make a game like CoD in straight machine code?
<snap-l> shakes808: You could, but there's a catch
<snap-l> You'd have to know exactly what hardware you're running on (CPU, video card, etc)
<snap-l> Direct X takes some of that burden off of you with helper functions
<snap-l> Open GL is the same way
<snap-l> so you call some function to open a window and draw something instead of (broad strokes) poking values directly onto the GPU and hoping you don't mess up along the way
<shakes808> So what is working behind the scene when using DX or OGL, is figuring out what hardware you are running and optimizing the code to work with your specific hardware?
<snap-l> and interfacing with the windowing environment
<snap-l> and making sure you have access to the sound subsystem
<snap-l> and handling input from external devices
<snap-l> and making sure you exit cleanly when you're done
<snap-l> Which is why the development for something like the original Castle Wolfenstein and Doom were so remarkable.
<snap-l> er, Wolfenstein 3D
<shakes808> love those games lol.... Yeah, they were pushing the envelope with graphics back then. Games are continually pushing that barrier.
<snap-l> Though the older games were remarkable in their own right, because a lot of them were assembly.
<shakes808> That is why games are important to the evolution of quite a few things lol.
<snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Crawford_(game_designer)
<snap-l> ^- one of my heroes
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWEt7DdUTaU
<snap-l> This is a series with him and Jason Rohrer about game design
<snap-l> I'd watch it, for nothing else but to understand more about game design from a master craftsman
<snap-l> (it has several parts, and I wish I could get it on DVD)
<jrwren> What? no link to John Carmack?
<jrwren> the other catch to "writing machine code" is that you probably aren't smart enough.
<jrwren> and I don't mean that as an insult.
<jrwren> I mean most people aren't smart enough, and by most I don't mean 90% or 99%, I mean 99.99% or more
<snap-l> jrwren: None taken. You have to really understand the machine
<jrwren> how many instructions are there on x86_64 ?
<jrwren> including SSE adn all versions of SSE{234}
<snap-l> Which one? There's variations with each of them
<jrwren> the fastest ways to do something...
<jrwren> exactly.
<jrwren> the fastest call on one chip is not the fastest call on another.
<snap-l> I find it interesting that RISC ultimately won, by emulating CISC
<jrwren> snap-l: haha, yup.
<snap-l> http://support.amd.com/us/Processor_TechDocs/24592_APM_v1.pdf
<jrwren> yeah, those volumes and intels equiv are great, but DAMN that is a lot of information
<jrwren> adn you really have to know it all to be better than a compiler.
<jrwren> and really, there is no reason, as in ZERO reason to write machine code directly. a good macro assembler does the same thing.
<snap-l> http://shop.oreilly.com/product/9781593271046.do
<jrwren> a lot of the macros are pretty nice and not THAT different from an imperative langauge.
<snap-l> This is an excellent (if a bit dated) book on the internals
<jrwren> I took a course on it in college.
<snap-l> jrwren: I'm throwing that out for everyone else. :)
<jrwren> and designed my own CPU with my own SIMD instructions
<snap-l> I know you surf sinewaves in you sleep
<jrwren> no, I actually wish I did.
<snap-l> ;)
<jrwren> i'm making it sound WAY cooler than it was.
<snap-l> http://shop.oreilly.com/product/9780735611313.do <- this is also a neat book
<jrwren> i just realized we are about 1/2 way between ubuntu release cycles
<snap-l> Yeah, I know
<jrwren> yes, but its written by Petzold, so I'm less receptive :)
<jrwren> j/k, Petzold is great.
<jrwren> I like how Code talks about Braile :)
<snap-l> Yeah, it's one of the few Microsoft books I like. ;)
<snap-l> rick_h_: Did you have a chance to play with Squeeze Player?
<rick_h_> snap-l: I gave it a half hearted attempt to run it and gave up when it just hung spinning
<snap-l> bummer
<rick_h_> snap-l: I'll try to play with it some more, but haven't had much time since last night yet.
<snap-l> Yeah, no worries.
<rick_h_> but did see if it would work out this morning for fun
<rick_h_> this is why I need a year off to hack on bookie http://heynemann.github.com/r3/
<rick_h_> that would be fun to tinker with if we had a few thousand users
<snap-l> In order to use rÂ³ you must have a redis database running. Getting one up in your system is beyond the scope of this document.
<snap-l> putting it mildly. ;)
<rick_h_> hmm, I wonder if the input stream setup would be too slow to really break the thing open
<rick_h_> the big thing with hadoop is HFS which makes that stuff work nicely
<jrwren> hadoop runs on JVM, adn so does not exist to me.
<rick_h_> heh, so no lucene or jenkins
<rick_h_> those are the big 3 java I don't avoid still
<jrwren> right.
<jrwren> pylucene!!!
<rick_h_> but that only talks to lucene...it still needs to run
<rick_h_> "extension for accessing Java Lucene"
<jrwren> er... damn, there was someone who had a port.
<rick_h_> whoosh is good for small stuff, xapian or elastic I guess
<jrwren> maybe that is what I was thinking
<rick_h_> those are my big 4 in fulltext (whoosh just being because I'm python and it's python)
<jrwren> xapian sounds familiar.
<jrwren> elastic is too generic a name.
<rick_h_> http://www.elasticsearch.org/
<jrwren> cool but still jabba.
<jrwren> i'm morally opposed to jabba
<snap-l> jrwren: How can you hate on Java? It's awesome. Especially Tomcat. It's like it gives you a coffee-break before it can even serve "Hello World"
<brousch> Java is awesome. It gives me Eclipse and Android
<brousch> I'm dropping Python and going full-on Java
<snap-l> That's not the only thing that dropped. Apparently you were dropped on your head. :)
<rick_h_> jcastro: must be giddy, he's been pushing for years for web app integration and finally talked mark into putting a full team on it :P
<rick_h_> and sneaky mark getting everyone to need to use the indicators and such to make it all work
<brousch> Eh? Ubuntu is turning into Jolicloud?
<rick_h_> brousch: go look at  twitter or G+ it's getting swamped out there
<jjesse> so you have to be connected to internet then?
<rick_h_> http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/07/19/web-app-integration-in-ubuntu/
<jcastro> FINALLY.
<rick_h_> http://blog.canonical.com/2012/07/19/introducing-ubuntu-web-apps-setting-the-web-free-of-the-browser/
<rick_h_> jcastro: hah!
<rick_h_> I wanted to see a slide at the end of hte video that was "NOW LEAVE US ALONG JORGE!"
<jjesse> so its basically using a bookmark on the dekstop?
<rick_h_> no, using web servie apis to integrate with the existing tooling/apis of unity
<rick_h_> so it's a lot more in depth than just a bookmark
<rick_h_> at least it appears, my first time seeing it is this video as well so not seen the code/work to add a new service
<jcastro> so like, when you get mail and stuff it's integrated with the launcher and indicators
<jcastro> you can use the hud to "compose a message"
<jcastro> and so on
<krondor_> so now Google can just ditch chromeos right and run native unity? :P
<jjesse> intersting
<brousch> jcastro: Does it handle mutiple accounts? Like I have Gmail for home and Google Apps for work
<jcastro> yeah afaik it treats each one as a sandbox
<jcastro> so you can have like, an icon for work mail, one for home mail
<jcastro> I haven't played with it yet though
<jjesse> and then the launcher to compse a message would have to pick?
<brousch> That would be nice
<brousch> jcastro: Quit improving Unity. I might be tempted to try it again
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> poor brousch has to rethink the hate :P
<snap-l> Hah
<brousch> I don't hate it. There are just a few non-configurable usability things that annoy me enough to not use it
<rick_h_> jcastro: doh, the techcrunch interview says it's powered by some FF extensions
<rick_h_> thankfully doing chrome extensions is a ton easier than FF ones
<krondor_> is it normal to want to hit people that use the term "putty" over "ssh"?
<rick_h_> I think the normal thing is to look at them like they're stupid and you don't know what they're talking about
<snap-l> krondor_: No graybeard court would convict you.
<krondor_> I think it just means I need to wrap things up early today
<snap-l> krondor_: Just tell them to stop using a wannabe Macintosh
<krondor_> I think that would offend in multiple subtle ways, nice!
<snap-l> I work hard to offend so you don't have to. :)
<jrwren> jjesse: don't believe the hype, its a bookmark on the desktop or in the unity search menu
<rick_h_> lol
<jjesse> hype ignroed
<rick_h_> cool, looks like chrome extentions already there. https://code.launchpad.net/~webapps/unity-chromium-extension/precise
<rick_h_> curious to look at how they tested the extension
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-07-20
<rick_h_> yummm, apis http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/ubuntu-12.04/javascript/index.html
<rick_h_> almost makes me want to run unity for a day and see what I can integrate with it
<llua> that sounds like activex
<llua> skimming over it...
<rick_h_> basically firefox/chrome extensions add some JS apis to your page you can use
<rick_h_> that allow you an API to interact with the unity indicators, HUD, etc
<snap-l> Morning
<snap-l> Ugh, I'm tired. Had a sinus headache that would not go away for anything
<rick_h_droid> morning tgif folks
<brousch> Next F we'll be in Columbus
<rick_h_> yep, finally got some work on my talk this week
<snap-l> I worked on a ride. :)
<snap-l> Man, I don't feel like last night happened. :)
<rick_h_> good stuff, she all nice and quiet ride?
<snap-l> Yeah, nice and smooth
<rick_h_> always love riding in a new car when you don't realize how slowly over time your older vehicle is louder/rougher than you thought
<brousch> A new car?
<brousch> VW Beetle?
<snap-l> Jetta
<snap-l> Black exterior, black interior
<brousch> Hawt
<rick_h_> man, you've got balls to buy an all black vehicle while we're hitting 90s+ days
<snap-l> rick_h_: And no sunroof. :)
<rick_h_> yep, balls of steel
<snap-l> rick_h_: I buy my vehicles for the 9 months we don't. :)
<brousch> No AWD?
<brousch> Whoa ""Microsoft's announcement of a late October release date for Windows 8 was eclipsed by its earnings report, in which the computer giant posted its first-ever quarterly loss since going public in 1986. The loss stems from Microsoft's continued struggles with the online services division.""
<rick_h_> well, they wrote off a giant $6B aquisition that failed
<brousch> Quit RTFA. It's the headlines that matter
<rick_h_> lol
<snap-l> My worst fear is they'll replace Ballmer with someone who can run the company more effectively
<snap-l> We need Microsoft to flounder like a big company. :)
<snap-l> Zappa on the headphone, and the windows wide open.
 * snap-l wonders what the weather is in Portland
<snap-l> 63F, mostly cloudy. Still has a hippie front hanging overhead.
<brousch> 63F and cloudy is perfect
<rick_h_> yep
<brousch> I'm moving to portland
<rick_h_> it's early there still
<jjesse> brousch, when you pack up, save room for me ok
<brousch> Actually I had an offer to work in Eugene, OR many years ago
<snap-l> WTF?
<jjesse> brousch, i almost worked in seattle
 * snap-l makes a note to stay at the Michigan border so you gents can't leave
<jjesse> wife didn't want to move across the country and so far away from familty
<brousch> I didn't want to work in Foxpro
<snap-l> brousch: ++
<brousch> rick_h_droid: How's the 7 treating you?
<rick_h_> brousch: liking it. combined with that little bluetooth speaker it's a great music/etc device for around the house
<rick_h_> my phone feels so small now
<rick_h_> some of the apps are still kind of meh
<rick_h_> and stuff I wanted to do like edit my presentation for pyohio fail since the drive client can only do docs/spreadsheets
<brousch> H, I haven't tried that
<rick_h_> yea, just happens to be the kind of stuff I'm messing with atm
<rick_h_> it's a really nice browser though.
<rick_h_> going through news, doing research, etc
<brousch> That just means there's still room for more new apps
<rick_h_> yea
<snap-l> Yeah, looking over your shoulder I was impressed.
<brousch> With rick_h_'s 7 incher?
<rick_h_> but there is a flicker issue going around it I want to get fixed for sure
<rick_h_> yea, 7"
<rick_h_> I do treat it more like a big phone tbh
<rick_h_> but I've watched more youtube/netflix than I ever did on my phone
<snap-l> rick_h_: I noticed that with the Nook
<rick_h_> and irc, I gave up on the phone but run it all the time on the N7
<snap-l> There are things that work so much better with a larger screen
<rick_h_> yea
<rick_h_> the magazine isn't great, I'd not do that on the 7"
<rick_h_> so I can see room for the 10" to do some things
<rick_h_> again, I've not 'created' much content on it so that might be a case for a 10" being better as well
<snap-l> Yeah, technical reading needs a larger screen
<rick_h_> but it's replaced my phone for anything around the house really
<rick_h_> well I still read on the kindle
<snap-l> Wait, which 10" screen are you referring? :)
<rick_h_> and I've hit audible limitations so not done books on there yet since I use those mobile
<snap-l> I thought that was the kindle
<rick_h_> snap-l: just saying that a 10" tablet is probably better for 'creating' content on
<MaskedDriver> I'm partial to my Xyboard
<rick_h_> MaskedDriver: get jellybean on there... <3
<brousch> rick_h_: What resolution is the 7?
<rick_h_> 1280-by-800
<brousch> I find the 1024x600 on the nook color to be just a little less than needed for viewing a 8.5x11 pdf
<MaskedDriver> rick_h_: it's not rooted.. it's a work tablet so I can't :(
<rick_h_> so far I'm more than happy for the price. Even if it's just a thing to read on around the house. not as warm as the laptop for that stuff. Sat on the front porch watching dilbert on netflix last night and I can't do that on the laptop
<snap-l> I owouldn't own up to that regardless of the device. :)
<brousch> Yeah, and you can bring it within 6 inches of your nose for an IMAX experience
<rick_h_> oh come on, little brainless time is good for you :P
<snap-l> heh
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, the speaker is weak though so love the bluetooth speaker for sure
<jjesse> rick_h_ do you do a lot of typing on your 7?
<brousch> Fast thumbs
<brousch> I find the hacker's keyboard full version fits perfectly on 7"
<jjesse> i use swiftkeyX on my Android
<rick_h_> jjesse: honestly, if no one's around I just use voice. It's that good
<jjesse> wow that's cool
<rick_h_> jjesse: but I do have the swiftkey tablet I use and that works well
<brousch> Is the speech to text done locally?
<rick_h_> jjesse: yea, I had a whole multi-text exchange with the wife just via voice and it worked awesome but for one typo I think
<rick_h_> brousch: not if you're online, but if you're offline it can run locally
<jjesse> thats pretty cool
<brousch> It's pretty slow online
<rick_h_> e.g. it defaults to online and goes offline as backup
<rick_h_> no, it's fast
<brousch> And I've found it very bad in my knock knock jokes
<rick_h_> jelly bean has made a big improvement even over ICS
<rick_h_> my poor phone feels like a slow clunker now
<rick_h_> and started to use the Google Now search thing for questions.
<brousch> But online should be the same for any android. I assume they use the same service
<rick_h_> my favorite is asking it "what's the current weather in portland Oregeon"
<jjesse> my 7 shows "ordered"
<rick_h_> brousch: no, starting in ICS they send the text up as you speak
<rick_h_> so it's translating before you're done talking and coming back. So you can really just sit and speak a paragraph and see it slowly form as you're speaking it
<brousch> But it should be the same engine
<rick_h_> brousch: I'll show you at pyohio, it's fast
<rick_h_> brousch: I don't konw, the fact that it exists locally makes me think it's got to be different
<rick_h_> let's say that the time diff locally vs online is minimal that you'd have to be looking to realize it
<brousch> Heh, I just realized my NC has no microphone
<rick_h_> ah
<rick_h_> the N7 has dual for noise cancelling
<brousch> It's not so much the slowness that bothers me, it's the bad translations
<brousch> That could help
<rick_h_> yea, it's much improved in jelly bean
<snap-l> brousch: The Tablet has a mic
<snap-l> but I've never used it (that I'm aware of)
<rick_h_> I did a test hangout and skype call off the tablet, worked out pretty well though the camera makes me tilt the camers where it's harder to read stuff off the screen
<snap-l> Of course, this is an example of the bullshit apps on this device: http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/ghost-radar-classic-app-spud-pickles/1108295820?ean=2940043873682
<snap-l> That's under productivity.
<brousch> D00d. The B&N App store is junk
<snap-l> It's beyond junk
<rick_h_> lol
<snap-l> http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/strobe-light-ninja-pig-studios/1107919835?ean=2940043871572
<rick_h_> bwuhahaha, got voidspace using whoosh https://twitter.com/voidspace/status/226338469667037184
<snap-l> http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/love-your-husband-peak-mobile-designs/1108210232?ean=2940043862860
<snap-l> rick_h_: Very cool
<snap-l> One less "use lucene"
<rick_h_> that would have been a good talk idea, I should have done that doh!
<brousch> It looks like I could get a bluetooth mic for the NC
<rick_h_> yea, "pure python to rule them all...well a chunk anyway"
<snap-l> http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/kitchen-timer-kidsandi-software/1108428121?ean=2940043878519 < This app is garbage too
<snap-l> You literally turn this clunky-ass dial
<snap-l> and it sits where and puts a notification event while it's counting down
<snap-l> You can't tell it "I want two minutes", you dial as close as you can
<brousch> hehe
<brousch> realism!
<snap-l> SO, as a simulator for why nobody uses those type of timers, it's awesome.
<brousch> Hm, this has no camera either. Maybe I need a bluetooth webcam with mic
<snap-l> brousch: And here's where you buy a Nexus 7
<brousch> Heh
<rick_h_> right, after you spend $100 on extra gear you just spend $200 on the real thing and get latest android updates, dev environment, and nook/kindle apps anyway
<rick_h_> but yea, I've started to collect bluetooth items lately for the phone/laptop/tablet
<rick_h_> now the only problem is turning them on and they connect to the wrong device at first lol
 * rick_h_ listing to his google music over BT headphones to the cell phone at the coffee shop. 
 * snap-l still has your Bluetooth Apple keyboard.
<brousch> Heh "The Bluetooth data bandwidth (2.1Mbit/sec) would limit a Â¼ VGA video steam (320x240) to 3 frames per second. Bluetooth video would be very choppy at best."
<rick_h_> snap-l: burn it :P
<snap-l> hah
<snap-l> brousch: I think they have some tricks for newer versions of Bluetooth
<snap-l> but yeah, I think it's getting time for USB Wireless.
<brousch> I'll just find a microphone. I never use a webcam anyways
<rick_h_> yea, I still have this dream of wireless displays
<brousch> I have the pnone if I really need it
<rick_h_> my laptop says it'll do it, but linux doesn't support it at all
<snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_USB#Comparison_of_digital_RF_systems
<snap-l> Version 3.0 + HS of the Bluetooth Core Specification[28] was adopted by the Bluetooth SIG on April 21, 2009. Bluetooth 3.0+HS provides theoretical data transfer speeds of up to 24 Mbit/s, though not over the Bluetooth link itself. Instead, the Bluetooth link is used for negotiation and establishment, and the high data rate traffic is carried over a collocated 802.11 link.
<rick_h_> http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/architecture-and-technology/intel-wireless-display.html
<brousch> Do I have to worry about Android compatibility if I'm looking for a bluetooth headset? Or do they just work?
<brousch> I haven't bought a bluetooth anything in a decade
<rick_h_> brousch: so I found most things just work, but there are crappy ones out there I think
<snap-l> I'm not aware of any issues
<rick_h_> I just go off reviews and make sure I get something well rated by a bunch of people so I know the chipset/hardware is good stuff
<snap-l> I was able to pair my phone with the car last night before the salesguy knew what I was doing
<snap-l> Had BT Audio with no problems.
<rick_h_> awesome
<snap-l> Stilla little perturbed that the touch screen radio was only an option with the sunroof
<snap-l> but the radio that's in there is good enough
<rick_h_> meh, touch screens I'm not too hot on anyway
<snap-l> Yeah, but would be nice to have RDS and the like
<rick_h_> I've never had issues with buttons accepting my touch, firing at the right point, etc
<rick_h_> RDS?
<snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Data_System
<snap-l> I've only had that on the Alero, and liked it
<rick_h_> oic
<rick_h_> right, yea I guess I didn't realize lack of touch screen meant lack of visual real estate for other stuff
<snap-l> Well, it's still a dot matrix display
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRRMxubIoMU
<snap-l> brousch: Apparently you're getting Shawn Powers closeby
<snap-l> http://www.brainofshawn.com/2012/07/20/its-official-and-a-bit-scary/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=its-official-and-a-bit-scary
<rick_h_> lmao http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4271378
<snap-l> What is Sparrow?
<rick_h_> the cool kids app on OSX/iOS for mail
<rick_h_> there's going to be a bunch of unhappy apple fanbois
<rick_h_> so I laugh!
<rick_h_> it begins! http://uploads.mitechie.com/sparrow.png
<_stink_> haha
<jjesse> fascinating he went to cornerstone
<snap-l> Oh for fuck's sake
<snap-l> Next we'll get jcastro saying mail on the desktop is ded
<snap-l> dead, even
 * rick_h_ checks the transcript...
<rick_h_> yep been there done that :P
<rick_h_> the only problem with the N7 http://goo.gl/TleSP
<rick_h_> I've started to get a lot of video off of AMZ
<rick_h_> and I've wanted to catch the west wing, never saw it
<snap-l> THat's the problem with Netflix
<snap-l> I've been watching documentaries. :)
<snap-l> Like the one on the pruitt-igoe project http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pruitt%E2%80%93Igoe
<snap-l> http://www.pruitt-igoe.com/
<rick_h_> best comment http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4271430
 * rick_h_ is dinking around on news waiting for a bzr push to actually go through *sigh*
<snap-l> rick_h_: I think that's a bit harsh
<rick_h_> snap-l: yea, since this is going to be a team put into UX/etc of the gmail stuff and not a product that is supposed to be moved/integrated
<greg-g> I just get 'The requested URL could not be retrieved'
<greg-g> bad timing http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/movie-gun-myths/
<snap-l> greg-g: And I await the crackdown on cosplay at movies
<greg-g> actually, I haven't seen much, just a few tweets, haven't read any news on it yet, but all I know is it sucks
<rick_h_> yea
<rick_h_> friend from OH was at a hotel blocks away last night :/
<greg-g> eek
<rick_h_> yea, guess he didn't get much sleep due to sirens for the night
<brousch> Shawn Powers?
<snap-l> brousch: Yeah, he's coming to live near you
<snap-l> in GR
<brousch> I wonder why he rented in south GR when he'll be working far north
<brousch> 131 ehll every day
<brousch> hell
<brousch> Ah, Linux Journal
<brousch> Hm, time to recruit him for the various groups
<rick_h_> hah
<rick_h_> mmm, interesting point https://twitter.com/ericflo/status/226360336796758016
<snap-l> rick_h_: Well, I'd be more worried of Yahoo bought Sparrow Mail
<snap-l> jaiku and dodgeball at least got merged into the Google borg
<snap-l> and weren't left to flounder on their own with 100 managers saying "make it {favorite_color}"
<snap-l> Chill, people
<snap-l> now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to blog about how the weather channel is killing wunderground
<rick_h_> hah
<brousch> Thanks for the heads-up
<brousch> OK, I picked up a bluetooth car hands-free thing at lunch. It pairs, but it doesn't send audio out through it
<brousch> I think it's being too smart and only routing phone stuff through it
<rick_h_> yea, there's two types of audio devices, mono phone type, and stereo music stuff
<rick_h_> and different apps need to be in different modes
<brousch> Wow, he responded already
<jjesse> rick_h_ i have several people saying they are now looking for a new mail client instead of sparrow
<snap-l> I hear Thunderbird is done
<brousch> Gmail
<MaskedDriver> Exchange?
<rick_h_> mutt never goes away :P
<MaskedDriver> Outlook?
<MaskedDriver> ;)
<snap-l> MaskedDriver: You can have my Exchange share.
<MaskedDriver> rick_h_: I actually rock out an Exchange server
<MaskedDriver> mostly to learn how it works
 * rick_h_ runs from exchange...never again
<brousch> rock out?
<brousch> Is that possible?
<snap-l> Yeah, like my parents rocked out
<MaskedDriver> lol yeah.. no problems here
<MaskedDriver> snap-l: I still rock out
<brousch> That's like saying you rock out in a Winebago
<rick_h_> wait until a mailbox goes boom
<MaskedDriver> rick_h_: impossible
<MaskedDriver> plus.. backups ftw
<snap-l> MaskedDriver: Oh hell no
<snap-l> Not impossible. Every time Outlook creates an archive file, an e-mail gets its wings
<snap-l> never to be seen or heard from again
<MaskedDriver> lol
 * snap-l can't remember the extension
<snap-l> but it was the equivalent of wrapping your mail in a binary blob and setting it on fire
<brousch> winmail.dat makes me want to kick puppies
<MaskedDriver> *shrugs* no problems here
<MaskedDriver> you're just bad at Exchange
<rick_h_> MaskedDriver: how many users? how long? how many upgrades?
<rick_h_> I mean seriously, you're saying because you've not had a problem they don't exist?
<MaskedDriver> 1 user, 1 year, a lot
<MaskedDriver> ;)
<MaskedDriver> lol we use it at work and we've never had data failure.. 150 users or so for about 5 years
<rick_h_> ok, so let me know when you're admin'ing a system for a company for a few years and we'll chat then :)
<snap-l> You run Exchange personally?
<brousch> It looks like we found yet another topic to get rick_h_ all worked up with
<MaskedDriver> snap-l: yeah.. technet supremacy
<snap-l> MaskedDriver: It's not a quastion of if, it's a question of when
<MaskedDriver> it's for development/learning purposes
<MaskedDriver> I guess technically there are 10 users but I'm the only one that uses it regularly
<rick_h_> brousch: I've wasted many a year trying to keep up exchange, windows pdas, outlook, offline pst files, and all crap. never want to see it again
<snap-l> rick_h_: Those are the ones... .pst files
<snap-l> I cringe whenever I see those
<jjesse> pst files are awesome
<snap-l> they're the cement shoes of mail data
<brousch> OK, I missed this earlier. Sparrow, a OSX and iOS email app, was purchased by Google?
<snap-l> brousch: Did you think we were just talking about e-mail for the hell of it? :)
<brousch> Yes
<jjesse> brousch, you mean you twitter or g+ feed isn't full of people "now i'm looking for a new mail app"
<snap-l> Silly brousch. It takes an internet of rage-quit to get us to talk about something
<MaskedDriver> ok.. I sufficiently angered rick_h_, so I'm going back to work
<MaskedDriver> :D
<brousch> jjesse: I don't have a lot of Apple fanboys in my feeds
<jjesse> brousch, hahaha
<rick_h_> how can you follow python poeple without them?
<snap-l> brousch: You must not follow many developers
<brousch> Actually I haven't checked my feeds since lunch
<snap-l> That's when the Apple world grieved.
<snap-l> https://twitter.com/Ihnatko/status/226372550500954112 <- Here's your dose of Portland
<snap-l> Enjoy.
<brousch> What's wrong with a little public nudity?
<snap-l> I just report it
<greg-g> I want all of the OSCON attendees to go through security naked tonight
<greg-g> I think I convinced my old boss :)
<rick_h_9> how is oscon treating you greg-g?
<brousch> Apparently very well if he wants to get naked with all of them
<greg-g> rick_h_9: a great time
<greg-g> brousch: maybe I should redefine my goal, maybe not *all*
<snap-l> Moving the goalposts, I see. :)
<snap-l> It won't work unless we ALL do it. :)
<greg-g> alright, we'll all take one for the team, back to the original plan!
<snap-l> http://garyc.me/bring/
<rick_h_> test
<snap-l> Received
<rick_h_> cool, tmux ssh session loaded on tablet
<snap-l> Nice
<rick_h_9> hacker keyboard is cool with alt, esc, ctrl keys but much harder to use
<snap-l> Yeah, I think Microsoft is on to something witht he separate screen for keyboard
<snap-l> I'm curious how the Surface will play out
<snap-l> I think it'll be a flop, but have some interesting ideas
<rick_h_> yea, the surface I'm not sold on
<rick_h_> I think it's a prettier version of current laptops
<snap-l> yep
<snap-l> But then again, that seems to be how people are using their ipads
<snap-l> WOW was here. :)
<rick_h_9> Hopefully they give you some good news
<snap-l> Well, they replaced some stuff on the pole
<snap-l> thing is, it's pretty much chasing ghosts
<snap-l> It didn't go down much today. Earlier this week I wanted to rip my hair out.
<snap-l> And whenever they show up, it's beautiful sailing
<snap-l> Also asked them why their clock was off by so much
<snap-l> Have to hand it to this tech: he wasn't the normal "here's your modem" "Have you tried turning it off and on again" sort.
<rick_h_> heh cool, arbor networks emailed me
<snap-l> What's the gist?
<rick_h_> just recruiter-y stuff, but from arbor networks itself vs something generic
<snap-l> Ah, that's cool
<rick_h_> just we're looking for devs, have top notch facilities and 'work/life balance'
<snap-l> Ah, those are nice to get.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-07-21
<_Marcus> Hi
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-07-15
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h> morning
<greg-g> g'morn
<snap-l> Howdy.
<snap-l> Quick poll: If there were a separate jobs mailing list for a certain user group that allowed recruiters to post directly to the list, would this be something you would be interested in?
<snap-l> (assuming you were in the job market, etc)
<_stink_> i'm sure i'd subscribe, then filter then somewhere i would never read
<greg-g> liberationtech has a -jobs list, but it doesn't seem to have recruiters post to it, more often the list admin or people from the companies doing the hiring
<snap-l> Yeah, that's what I'm afraid of: people will either not subscribe, or they'll not read it
<snap-l> then again, it would get some of the traffic off of the main list. :)
<greg-g> is this MUG?
<snap-l> It could be. :)
<snap-l> (yes)
<greg-g> (there's no traffic on ubuntu-us-mi, of course :) )
<snap-l> Yeah, there's a little traffic on that list.
<snap-l> ubuntu-us-mi that is
<snap-l> Also, if you ever decide to have a group called mug, or a podcast named "metal", expect folks to try to solicit you ceramic mug manufacturing, or nickel alloys.
<greg-g> heh
<snap-l> Thank God I don't have an Apple Product liberation blog called Free Ipad or I'd really be in trouble.
<brousch> snap-l: How many jobs posts are there to MUG?
<snap-l> We usually get about 1-2 a month
<snap-l> so it's not horrible traffic, but I'm wondering if we could open it up some more
<snap-l> Just wanted to get a general sense if I was completely off-base for suggesting it
<brousch> I think there's no point until you get a complaint from a member
<brousch> For GRWebDev we set up a free jobs board so people can post. Peoeple interested in the jobs can go there
<snap-l> Yeah, we've kicked that around as well
<greg-g> I find it funny that Fx nightly plays youtube videos just fine, but chromium consistently gives me "video not available" errors
<snap-l> Wonder if it's something to do with Flash between the browsers
<snap-l> or perhaps some privacy foo
<greg-g> probably option 2
<greg-g> but duno
<greg-g> +n
<greg-g> I even have flashblock going on Fx
<greg-g> (so, two clicks needed instead of just one)
<jrwren> does chromium come with flash like chrome does?
<jcastro> no
<jrwren> there ya go.
<greg-g> doesn't make sense, wouldn't it give me a "no flash, dur" error instead?
<rick_h> because it hates you
<rick_h> it's quite personal
 * greg-g nods
<greg-g> understandable, I dislike it as well
<snap-l> https://plus.google.com/+IanBicking/posts/Pzzj4gsfa2U
<snap-l> Every time I think "I should learn me some Javascript" I read something like this.
<jrwren> snap-l: don't let that stop you. C compilers weren't compatible with each other for many years. it is still a great language.
<snap-l> I know C doesn't guard against shit, but it seems like Javascript sets out a welcome mat over a vat of laser-sharks
<jrwren> http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/C-Extensions.html
<jrwren> just follow Crockford style JS and all is good.
<rick_h> jslint or bust
<rick_h> and if it huts your feelings then man up and get over it
<snap-l> Programming is hard. Let's go shoppinmg
<jrwren> shopping is hard, lets write a database.
<snap-l> Checking integrity is hard. Let's write MongoDB.
<snap-l> (aside: I noticed identi.ca was having replication issues with MongoDB. Could only shake my head.))
<jrwren> lol
<jrwren> mongodb is webscale
<snap-l> MongoDB is a steaming pile of webscale.
<jrwren> TIL: debian packages nginx in both -core and -light versions.
<snap-l> what's the difference between the two?
<jrwren> light is not a complete set of core modules.  -full has full core modules.
<jrwren> oops, its -full and -light
<snap-l> Ah, ok
<rick_h> yea, lots of optional modules but requires recompile
<jrwren> i'll start with full, then maybe try light
<jrwren> since all I really need is uwsgi
<jrwren> wtf ubuntu - uwsgi 1.0.3, isn't that ANCIENT?!?
<jrwren> oh, its the LTS uwsgi.
<rick_h> yea, pip install uwsgi ftw
<jrwren> actually 1.0.3 is fine :)
<jrwren> adn my good it is FAST
<jrwren> nginx+uwsgi FTW
<rick_h> yea, it's nice. I run bookie with nginx + uwsgi
<rick_h> though I do want to go to gunicorn
<jrwren> i adapted http://justcramer.com/2013/06/27/serving-python-web-applications/
<jrwren> and WOW this is faster than I thought it would be.
<rick_h> http://docs.bmark.us/en/latest/hosting.html#hosting-your-bookie-installation is the bookie docs and a little bit out of date
<jrwren> ok i'm still in awe of how fast this is.
<rick_h> very cool
<jrwren> 1100 rps with running ab -n 10000 -c 100
<jrwren> oh, lol, that wasn't hitting the uwsgi, that was just nginx redirecting /a/b/c to /a/b/c/
<jrwren> *sigh*
<rick_h> lol
<rick_h> ok, that makes more sense
<snap-l> jrwren: nigix serves /dev/null like a bat out of hell
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-07-16
<jrwren> hahaha, true
<snap-l> God, I fucking hate shared hosting
<snap-l> ERROR 2006 (HY000) at line 2332: MySQL server has gone away
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h> morning
<snap-l> How's the sprint?
<rick_h> party party
<rick_h> went to one ofthe top 5 chinese places in the country last night
<rick_h> (according to some list somewhere)
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> How was it?
<rick_h> good stuff, nice and spicy
<snap-l> Very cool.
<snap-l> So does that mean we'll have to find it's equivalent here? :)
<jrwren> where are you rick_h ?
<rick_h> jrwren: Raleigh NC
<trevlar> http://lifehacker.com/shuttle-is-a-simple-ssh-client-that-lives-in-your-menu-799953922
<trevlar> :)
<snap-l> trevlar: Congratulations! That's awesome!
<trevlar> thanks :)
<jrwren_> OH: "this is what ubuntu maas wsa trying to be. htey were just full of it"
<jrwren_> poor ubuntu
<greg-g> hah
<jcastro> jrwren_: where do you see that?
<jrwren_> no, it was literally overheard.
<ColonelPanic001> like an IM, but with better tts
<greg-g> oh god
<greg-g> I'm a horrible person
<brousch1> That's why you live in SF
<rick_h> lol
<ColonelPanic001> it's in the 60s in SF. I wouldn't mind being there for weather alone
<greg-g> not the tts?
<ColonelPanic001> I don't care about your tts
<ColonelPanic001> I care about not having air I can swim through
<_stink_> you should be more respectful of greg-g's feelings, ColonelPanic001
<_stink_> compliment his tts
<greg-g> we do have great tts out here
<rick_h> wtf is tts?
<greg-g> ....
 * greg-g looks at ColonelPanic001 
<ColonelPanic001> >_>
<_stink_> someone have a crack at this
<greg-g> rick_h'll have to give this talk to his boy some day, I don't want to be the one to do it
<ColonelPanic001> we all have to learn about text-to-speech one day
<ColonelPanic001> hopefully before we see it used to give an entire presentation
<_stink_> oh yes
<brousch1> ColonelPanic001: Damn you. My 2 hour pyohio talk is building an app around tts
<ColonelPanic001> sounds fun
<_stink_> like making brs?
<greg-g> :(
<greg-g> (seriously, :) )
<_stink_> that one took some real effort
<snap-l> Your efforts were not in vain
<_stink_> phew.
<snap-l> wait, actually they were in vain. Apparently someone redistricted
<snap-l> You'll need to check with your accountant; I think in vain has regional taxes
<snap-l> OK, file this in the "I'm a yank, and I just said 'da fuq?'" https://plus.google.com/+Hometalk/posts/SkVdGhL2ZDK
<snap-l> Apparently this is a thing that southerners do?
<greg-g> snap-l: there's a house in SF that has a ton of those hanging/etc
<greg-g> I thought it was just "art"
<snap-l> Apparently it's tradition
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-07-17
<snap-l> jrwren_: http://alfamatrix.bandcamp.com/album/moments-1 http://alfamatrix.bandcamp.com/album/moments-bonus-tracks-version
<rick_h> hah, this is interesting http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/395839-rams-using-google-glass-technology-in-practice?eref=sihp
<rick_h> wonder if they can get the gps specific enough to have it walk you through where you're supposed to be on your plays
<snap-l> How exactly did they get enough Google Glass for the team
<snap-l> or is it just for the quarterback?
<snap-l> and how soon until the NFL gets uppity about this. :)
<snap-l> derekv: Did you want me to bring those keyboard washers?
<rick_h> morning
<brousch1> ug
<rick_h> that good eh?
<brousch1> Installing new Win7 computers for everyone and my users forgot how to think
<brousch1> Hand-holding all day yesterday
<snap-l> brousch1: Stop moving their cheese
<brousch1> I left it in the same place for 7 years because it's so painful
<snap-l> This is a fish market, and we are dreaming of sushi
<snap-l> insert business book pithy quote here.
<snap-l> Today is a Metallica day.
<greg-g> so, Chrome ingonito mode brings in some of your cookies from your main session into the incognito session, it doesn't write back out, but that means your cookies can still be tracked
 * greg-g learned this as we're testing a SUL thing in Chrome right now
<ColonelPanic001> ...interesting
<ColonelPanic001> any idea if Firefox does the same, for us open-source-lovers?
<greg-g> :) dunno
<greg-g> Fx 23 is being more strict in our testing of the SUL than chrome, at least
<greg-g> (ie: doesn't work as reliably)
<greg-g> ColonelPanic001: to keep my cred, I actually use Chromium, I just didn't think jcastro would know what I was talking about if I said that
<ColonelPanic001> ;)
<ColonelPanic001> that is interesting, either way
<greg-g> yeah
<ColonelPanic001> I'd like to point out that if I show up in your testing at all with my history there, that we're all only human
<ColonelPanic001> I have needs
<jcastro> greg-g: what is SUL?
<greg-g> Single User Login, login to en.wikipedia.org and when you visit commons.wikimedia.org you're already logged in automagically
<greg-g> jcastro: pretty tough now a days with the change of thirdparty cookie acceptance (or, non-acceptance) of the major browsers
<jcastro> oh
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-07-18
<Blazeix> snap-l: http://warrenellis.tumblr.com/post/54939416114/so-guess-where-i-am
<snap-l> Blazeix: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Zappa
<snap-l> there's no bad place to start, but recommended albums are Sheik Yerbouti, Shut Up 'n Play er Guitar, Guitar, Trance Fusion, Waka/Jawaka, and Jazz from Hell
<snap-l> And pretty much any of the Mothers of Invention albums
<snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Zappa_discography
<rick_h> how went CHC?
<Blazeix> pretty good turnout. 8 people, i think?
<Blazeix> widox picked up the room
<rick_h> awesome, thanks widox!
<brousch> "Dear Sir, I am representing Software Developer's Journal Magazine (http://sdjournal.org/), magazine for specialists made by specialists,which curently is looking for cooperation in writing articles about Python Programming. After some research in the internet I found out that you are a huge expert in this field, so I decided to contact you with an offer of writing an article for our magazine."
<brousch> Got that guys? I am a huge expert!
<rick_h> brousch: wot!
<rick_h> brousch: put that in your next raise request
<rick_h> and morning
<snap-l> Good mroning
<jjesse> mroning back
<jjesse> so brousch  are you going to be writing articles then?
<snap-l> he's a huge expert. I'd expect nothing less.
<snap-l> We're going to need a bigger IRC room to contain brousch's expertness
<brousch> trudat
<brousch> jjesse: If I ever find enough free time I will
<jjesse> i'm sure if you don't sleep ever you can :)
<brousch> I only got 6 hours last night and I'm dragging a bit today. I really need my 7.5 hours
<jjesse> wow i usually get 6.5 each day and seem to function fine
<brousch> You are in better shape than I am
<brousch> I'm a potato
<jjesse> lol i just pretend to be in shape, i would be in better shape if i got more sleep
<brousch> you run all the time
<jjesse> yeah
<jjesse> you can come w/ me next time :)
<jjesse> doing 8 miles on saturday
<brousch> i can run 1/4 mile
<jjesse> :)
<jjesse> thats a start
<snap-l> http://chimera.labs.oreilly.com/books/1234000000754/index.html#
<snap-l> Test Driven Web Development book online
<snap-l> ToC looks like it focuses heavily on Django, so not sure if I'll be picking it up
<brousch> I was going to make a snarky comment, then I realized I'll be seeing you in a week
<snap-l> Oh, you won't see me. I'm silent like Ninja. :)
<brousch> Ah, lovely. Now people are saying they can't find websites because they always used their History to find them
<snap-l> MY CHEESE WAS MOVED AND NOW I CANNOT HAVE A SANDWICH AND IT IS ALL YOUR FAULT PUT IT BACK NOW
<jrwren> was considering juju, but i don't need relationships, so I think I'll just use cloud-init directly. anyone experienced with this?
<snap-l> Also: I have signed up for a Quora account
<snap-l> I added as my occupation: Quora hater.
<snap-l> Google OAuth FTW
<rick_h> jrwren: huh? for doing what?
<snap-l> (Though I have a bone to pick with soome sites that want to be able to post shit in my stream / contacts)
<snap-l> Quora doesn't do that, but I've seen some sites that require the world for permissions for something that a normal account wouldn't do
<snap-l> like fucking Yamaha's site
<snap-l> I think people would shoot me dead if a site posted / emailed on my behalf that I got a badge for downloading a manual from their site
<snap-l> Hell, I'd shoot me dead
<snap-l> http://decafbad.net/2013/07/18/ssh-agent-identitiesonly-and-how-to-get-around-too-many-authentication-attempts/
<snap-l> God, it geels like a stye is out of my eye
<snap-l> s/geels/feels/
<rick_h> ugh, go detroit http://r.bmark.us/u/13de1503624d07
<brousch> I wish Canada had usurpsed it
<snap-l> And boom goes the dynamite
<PainBank> get to the DIA quick before it is all gone and disbursed
<rick_h> yea, no kidding
<snap-l>  They can't
<snap-l> Most of that stuff is on loan
<snap-l> aka untouchable
<snap-l> It'll just go back into private hands with no money coming back into the city
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-07-19
<snap-l> Blazeix: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9mg4KHqRPw
<snap-l> morning
<rick_h>   morning
<brousch1> yes
<snap-l> How's the day so far?
<rick_h> ugh
<snap-l> rick_h: http://youtu.be/l1yWusiaLCM
<snap-l> (and anyone else "doing agile". ;) )
<rick_h> hah
<snap-l> Also http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/The-H-is-closing-down-1920027.html
<snap-l> Wonder where r/opensource and r/linux will get their echo-chamber
<snap-l> viva Phoronix.
<rick_h> never heard of it before
<brousch1> I'm going to have to undo the Windows Roaming AppData redirection, so not a fun day
<brousch1> It's too flaky
<snap-l> Lovely.
<PainBank> why is it car oem's think because they are so high on security, that they cannot be hacked?  ugh
<snap-l> OEMs being the manufacturers or the parts suppliers?
<snap-l> because embedded stuff like Siemens have securty which can best be described as laughable
<PainBank> oems being the car makers
<PainBank> ford, gm, chrysler, mazda, toyota...tata
<PainBank> not to be confused wtih tatas
<snap-l> yeah, well they haven't had to consider themselves a target for smart people with way too much time on their hands
<snap-l> I mean, they put in some rudimentary security, but I don't think they've had to put in the hardening you'd expect.
<PainBank> true
<PainBank> ya, well, lots of connectivity being added in the coming years... using standard stuff such as bluetooth and wifi....
<PainBank> more exposer to hacking...
<PainBank> I just think it is funny.
<PainBank> btw.... anyone here good with Qt looking for some contract work?
<snap-l> Well, that's also because more of the car is being exposed to the user
<snap-l> there's no reason these systems should be as interconnected.
<snap-l> Your front-end components should be talking via APIs to the back-end components
<PainBank> sure... but there is always exposure and system designers of the cars don't think that way.
<snap-l> And maybe they do, but I have a feeling there's not as much "separation between church and state"
<PainBank> there isn't
<greg-g> what my irc channels look like after 1.5 days away from work:http://grossmeier.net/files/tmp/irc_highlights.png
 * snap-l wonders what's on channel 5
<snap-l> Also, that's a fuckload of wikichannels
<greg-g> yeah, we have too many channels
<greg-g> 5 is #makesad, a semi-sort-not-really private channel for friends
<greg-g> brb
<greg-g> snap-l: also, I'm a goof, I was in that channel when i took the screenshot, and the name is listed one other place I missed, heh
<brousch1> https://github.com/zedshaw/fuqit
<greg-g> best part is the investment bit
<brousch1> I like the mascot
<brousch1> I think I got the windows7 folder redirection problems fixed. So not a total loss today
<Blazeix> snap-l: what style of music is that
<Blazeix> ?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-07-20
<rick_h> party party
<rick_h> morning
<rick_h> party party
<rick_h> yay back home
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-07-21
<greg-g_> heh, oops: http://ubuntuforums.org/announce.html
<greg-g_> neat: http://www.ghostscript.com/pipermail/gs-devel/2013-February/009410.html
<jrwren> freedom haters
<greg-g> freedom ain't free, buddy
<jrwren> eternal vigilance :)
<smlr-hangout> SMLR is live (show prep for now) Video: http://www.youtube.com/embed/1_D8XyXMX0s - Audio http://live.smlr.us:8000/streaming
<smlr-hangout> SMLR is chatting in freenode #smlr
<jrwren> tis a shame ubuntu isn't listed here: https://aws.amazon.com/marketplace/
<rick_h> yea
<rick_h> oh well
<brousch1> rick_h: I'm listening to the new Django podcast and they basically said Pyramid is for projects that are too big and complicated for Django
<rick_h> brousch1: lmao!
<rick_h> brousch1: so I shouldn't show them the multiple tiny small apps I use pyramid on then, that would get 2x as complicated if I used django
<rick_h> like my redis based app I use for breadability that couldn't use the django orm or admin anyway...
<brousch1> Yeah. I think by complicated they mean the Django components don't fit the solution very well
<rick_h> yea
<rick_h> so if flask is for the small stuff, and pyramid for the big stuff...
<brousch1> If you're a Django users, then simple problems are ones that django can solve simply
<brousch1> All other problems must be complicated
<brousch1> So Flask is for small complicated problems and Pyramid is for big complicated problems
<rick_h> and django gets to be the VB of the python web dev world?
<brousch1> heh
<rick_h> 'it is easy and does simple things simply' ?
<brousch1> They also said something like Pyramid can pull from a wider ecosystem
<rick_h> yea, python...and wsgi...
<rick_h> welcome to the modern python web world
<brousch1> There were like 3 hosts and a guest on the podcast, so I don't know who actually said these things
<rick_h> just make sure I don't hear it so my wife won't catch me screaming at my phone :)
<brousch1> I thought you would be happy with those comments
<rick_h> no, because it just makes people talking about django on a podcast (which I would assume if you're on a django podcast you know wtf you're saying) are more clueless than I generally think of django users :P
<rick_h> I chat with some serious django people and I can at least respect them usually. This kind of talk would drive me bonkers
<snap-l> Good morning everyone
<snap-l> And good afternoon
<snap-l> (catching up. :) )
<rick_h> party party
<rick_h> lawn catch-up break here myself
<snap-l> Lovely.
<rick_h> the joys of traveling...no little elfs at home keeping up with the lawn care, grocery shopping, laundry...
<rick_h> damn elves
<snap-l> Well, we had an impromptu refrigerator cleaning yesterday.
<rick_h> hah, and I spelled that two different ways by saying it one way in my head but another in text
<snap-l> And I found out something about Royal Oak
<rick_h> yea, power back yay!
<rick_h> I think we can stop calling that a "brownout"
<snap-l> apparently they only will use 32gal trash containers
<rick_h> you lost power man
<snap-l> so I now have a 50gal useless bin in the side porch
<snap-l> Yeah
<rick_h> snap-l: what is it? If you can't use it maybe I can put it to use and buy it off you
<snap-l> It's a Ginormous Rubbermaid Brute 50gal
<snap-l> let me see if I can find it
<snap-l> It's yours gratis if you want it
<snap-l> http://www.homedepot.com/p/Rubbermaid-Commercial-Products-Brute-50-gal-Gray-Rollout-Trash-Container-with-Lid-FG9W27-28GRA
<rick_h> ooh, yea. That might be cool
<snap-l> I wrote our address on it in sharpie, and it has been used once
<snap-l> Will clean it out as best I can
<rick_h> lol
<snap-l> god, people are asking folks to spread the word about tje hacked forhms
<snap-l> unfortunately nobody had the foresight to see the other posts saying the same thing
<snap-l> consider it informed. sheesh.
<snap-l> also the only way tjis would need spreading is if there were more isers that didnt ise said forums than do
<rick_h> yea, can't tell if jcastro is so happy or sad. the discourse page got linked as a place to ask for help as a replacement.
<rick_h> good thing that's on juju and can hopefully scale up :)
<snap-l> Honestly, if the forums just up and disappeared I'd be a happy man
<snap-l> But I know there's a community there, and people would get (rightfully) pissed
<snap-l> But seriously, bulldoze the teen center and put in a skate park.
<snap-l> Nuke it from orbit
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-07-14
<cmaloney> Evening? :)
<widox> yep, its evening time :p
<rick_h__> evening
<rick_h__> this guy has the right idea https://www.flickr.com/photos/7508761@N03/14461809287/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/OoYFZ6 - P1030784.jpg | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> http://memegenerator.net/instance/52487702
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/TgORPK - Late for work hits snooze bar anyway - Snooze | Meme Generator
<rick_h__> hah
<rick_h__> nice
<cmaloney> Good morning
<mrgoodcat> morn
<jrwren> morn
<rick_h__> ugh
<jrwren> already?
<rick_h__> tired, lot of time outside wore me out this weekend
<jrwren> almost zero outside time for me this weekend :(   I'm jealous.
<rick_h__> yea, was nice. Last weekend with the family though for a month so :/
<jrwren> Wife is sick, so stayed at home and had no fun
<jrwren> well, had lots of indoor fun
<rick_h__> ah, :( on being sick
<jrwren> :(
<jrwren> month?!
<rick_h__> well traveling to or from somewhere every weekend for the next 4
<rick_h__> and they're international so leave on Sat, back on Sat but will have a dead sunday
<jrwren> ah, right.
<rick_h__> so we made sure to go out and have a big family weekend
<rick_h__> thus now zzzzz
<jrwren> what you doing post london?
<rick_h__> there's a team lead sprint in germany
<rick_h__> basically 'report to Mark S on how the cycle is going and what it is you're not going to get done' sprint
<brousch> That sounds frightening
<rick_h__> heh, well it depends on how your cycle is going
<rick_h__> last one I did went pretty well I think.
<rick_h__> this one is going to be a bit rougher for sure
<brousch> Can you blame Windows and OSX?
<rick_h__> heh, no. OSX is the one thing we've gotten out the door
<jrwren> blame jrwren for killing your CI :)
<brousch> But it took all of your time to do so!
<rick_h__> I have to blame hiring slowness and growing projects
<mrgoodcat> lol jrwren already broke something? tsk tsk
<mrgoodcat> if you aren't breaking things you aren't diong enough
<rick_h__> I like to say that if you're not swimming you're not in deep enough.
<rick_h__> the breaking part seems a bit unnecessary :P
<mrgoodcat> lol
<jrwren> dude, I broke EVERYTHING just a couple hours into my first day.
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: EVERYTHING!!!
<jrwren> no one could work.
<rick_h__> lol
<jrwren> i wasted hours (days) of other peoples time.
<rick_h__> special talent for finding the weak ponit
<rick_h__> point
<jrwren> At least, that is how I tell the story.
<rick_h__> :)
<rick_h__> I phrase it that it's taken a village to train jrwren, and recover from his melt downs :)
<jrwren> hahahahaha
<jrwren> For the record, that was only a partial melt down. Full shall never occur.
<cmaloney> Never say never. :)
<jrwren> i can pretty much say never given my lack of melt downs in the past.
<jrwren> my body tends to react to stress, so while i may not consciously know i'm stressed, my body tells me that I am.
<jrwren> i guess I could ignore that, but I like to think I'm not that foolist
<rick_h__> lol
<cmaloney> Yeah, I tend to internalize a lot of things and blame myself for things going wrong
<cmaloney> It's agift.
<cmaloney> ColonelPanic001: Accept mah invite. :)
<cmaloney> brousch: You too.
<cmaloney> Going to see if I can get rick_h__ on the go train as well (the game(
<cmaloney> )
<rick_h__> ruh roh
<cmaloney> rick_h__: http://www.amazon.com/Shin-Kaya-Tibet-Spruce-Floor-Board/dp/B000JX6X86/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/A0KiWv - Amazon.com: Shin-Kaya Tibet Spruce Go Game Floor Board - 2-3/8 inch: Toys & Games
<rick_h__> oh, that other GO thing you all were chatting about
<brousch> cmaloney: I don't see any invite
<brousch> Does it go to email?
<cmaloney> Log into http://www.dragongoserver.net/]
<bookiebot> DGS - Error
<cmaloney> Log into http://www.dragongoserver.net/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/M2HG - DGS - Dragon Go Server
<cmaloney> Sometimes email doesn't work
<brousch> I should learn the rules first
<cmaloney> What better way to learn than by getting spanked by an amateur. :)
<brousch> cmaloney: Nice mustache
<cmaloney> That's how I'm learning from ColonelPanic001
<cmaloney> http://www.usgo.org/files/pdf/W2Go8x11.pdf
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/WdO3ij - application/pdf
<cmaloney> That's "The Way to Go" ebook
<cmaloney> it'll give you a good foundation for the game
<cmaloney> And feel free to ask questions.
<cmaloney> I'm just looking to get other folks into the game. :)
<brousch> Geez, this website feels like Ajax never happened
<cmaloney> This is why you'll want to install BW-Go
<cmaloney> There are other go sites out there, but they don't have decent remote protocol options
 * ColonelPanic001 spanks cmaloney 
<ColonelPanic001> KGS is my favorite, but no mobile app. ugh.
<brousch> Might as well not exist at all
<cmaloney> Yeah, KGS also requires Java to interface.
 * brousch slaps ColonelPanic001
<cmaloney> There's also whatever server qGo uses.
<ColonelPanic001> I actually have a physical goban, but I've used it maybe once in the past four years
<ColonelPanic001> turns out it requires other people
<ColonelPanic001> pft
<cmaloney> ColonelPanic001: Funny that
<cmaloney> I'm thinking of getting a starter set at some point
<cmaloney> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GH3D3EE/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/bbTZ5b - Amazon.com: 9x9 / 13x13 - 3/8" Beginner's Learning Board and Stones Set: Toys & Games
<cmaloney> http://www.amazon.com/Go-Game-with-Wood-Board/dp/B00000IZPL <- this one is too small unfortunately
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/gUSsSp - Amazon.com: Go Game with Wood Board: Toys & Games
<ColonelPanic001> http://www.amazon.com/Go-Game-with-Wood-Board/dp/B00000IZPL/ref=sr_1_3?s=toys-and-games&ie=UTF8&qid=1405351874&sr=1-3&keywords=go+board
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/2fkv2Y - Amazon.com: Go Game with Wood Board: Toys & Games
<ColonelPanic001> thnk that's the one I have
<cmaloney> Hah
<cmaloney> Same one. :)
<cmaloney> I have a magnetic one as well
<ColonelPanic001> hm, maybe not then. It's just a usual plank of wood, but it's a 19x19
<cmaloney> Same small size.
<ColonelPanic001> little "asian store" in the mall down here has some nice ones
<cmaloney> yeah, it's 19x19, but under a foot across
<ColonelPanic001> nothing too special, but maybe 6" tall, drawers for the stones, etc
<ColonelPanic001> ah, nah, mine's probably 1.5' square
<ColonelPanic001> well, maybe. I don't even know the last time I had it out, maybe I'm wrong
<cmaloney> I <3 Indian food but man it can look like a dog's breakfast at times.
<brousch> I'm told that's only pre-packaged Indian food
<brousch> Fresh looks more edible
<cmaloney> Yeah.
<rick_h__> heh, ok I laughed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqAUmgE3WyM
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/DVAj8 - Useless Box Kit from ThinkGeek - YouTube
<cmaloney> ;)
<greg-g> is it just me, or have big trucks just continued to get even bigger and bigger
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-07-15
<rick_h__> greg-g: not sure which 'big trucks' you refer.
<rick_h__> I've actually found the small trucks have gotten bigger, just bigger frames sitting up higher
<rick_h__> the f150s I sweat must be as tall and broad as a f250 used to be
<greg-g> big pickamup trucks
<greg-g> but yeah, that
<greg-g> and those F250s/other "3/4 ton" trucks are HUGE now
<greg-g> and they're made to look so intimidating
<dzho> yup.
<dzho> and not just trucks.
<dzho> subarus too
<dzho> probably all the things
<greg-g> dzho: yeah, probably :/
<mrgoodcat> .echo test
<bookiebot> test
<mrgoodcat> ha he didn't die
<mrgoodcat> dzho: not sure if i consider a subaru intimidating...
<mrgoodcat> our f150 is for sure much bigger than the old ones though. With the big front grill it is really a monster
<greg-g> mrgoodcat: what kind of milage do you get?
<mrgoodcat> around 17
<mrgoodcat> more on the highway
<mrgoodcat> but the digital readout says 16 is the average
<mrgoodcat> 2012 lariat ecoboost if you were wondering
<mrgoodcat> by far the nicest interior i've ever seen in a pickup too
<mrgoodcat> and it tows like nobody's business, which is saying a lot since we got it to replace an F-250 Superduty Turbo Diesel
<mrgoodcat> time for bed now
<dzho> mrgoodcat: I was going with the "bigger" part rather than the "intimidating" part, but ok.
<dzho> it's not just appearances--I fit in 2012 and later Imprezas, but not earlier.
<dzho> and I opened the hood to this outback and . . . I'm thinking about putting a couch, a big screen TV and my game console in there.
<dzho> I mean, there's just so much clear space around it all.
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> I swear, everyone in the GSoC that I've received addresses from has sent me addresses that look more like driving directions.
<rick_h__> lol
<cmaloney> "Please send me an address that a simple American can enter into an even more simple shipping program." :)
<mrgoodcat> dzho: ah yes. they are certainly bigger
<brousch> All cars get bigger. Each new model of a car is larger than the previous. When a company's compact car grows to midsized, they introduce a new compact
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> http://trustrum.com/copyright-myths/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/mLoMcW - 403 Forbidden
<cmaloney> greg-g: ^^
<mrgoodcat> brousch: they're just growing up
<jrwren> cmaloney: have you run into any of these myths?
<jrwren> I'm saying DUH to each of these.
<cmaloney> jrwren: I've seen the "mail your stuff to yourself" myth
<cmaloney> Actually, I've seen every one of them
<cmaloney> http://www.palladiumbooks.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=523%3Apalladium-booksr-internet-policy&catid=47%3Asubmission-info&Itemid=183
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/ej2VtK - PALLADIUM BOOKSÂ® INTERNET POLICY
<cmaloney> ^^ This one got me to ask Kevin Seimbeida about it personally.
<cmaloney> (when he was at Penguicon)
<cmaloney> Specifically the Derivative Works portion
<greg-g> yeah, the mail your thing one is common
<greg-g> I didn't read the full article, but derivatives are complicated
<cmaloney> Yeah, and fair use is also complicated
<cmaloney> If you want to make anyone interested in copyright law groan, just say "fair use"
<greg-g> ;)
<cmaloney> The problem is copyright is conflated with trademark law
<cmaloney> so people will shout "fair use" for trademarked items.
<cmaloney> which isn't quite the same as copyrighted works.
<cmaloney> e.g.: if I make a poster of Darth Vader and sell it at a convention I might run afoul of trademark, but not of copyright.
<cmaloney> though Disney will likely throw both books at me for good measure.
<brousch> This is why Detroit can't have nice things http://www.10news.com/entertainment/around-the-web/photos-woman-catches-relative-of-piranha-testicle-eating-pacu-fish-in-michigan-lake07142014
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/B0yRKL - PHOTOS: Woman catches relative of Piranha, testicle-eating Pacu fish, in Michigan lake - 10News.com KGTV ABC10 San Diego
<cmaloney> nope nope nope nope nope
<brousch> cmaloney: I'm gonna have to ask you to stay on your side of the Go board. I don't like your boys getting up in my bidnis
<cmaloney> Heh
<cmaloney> If you'd stop giving me things to put into Atari I'll gladly comply. :)
<greg-g> what's the term for drawing more attention to something by trying to get rid of it?
<greg-g> Techdirt uses it all the time...
<rick_h__> greg-g: streisand effect
<cmaloney> Damn fingers.
<cmaloney> ^^
<rick_h__> hmm, not heard it called dammned fingers before :P
<greg-g> that one
<greg-g> :)
<cmaloney> I meant I couldn't type it fast enough.
<greg-g> see also: http://blog.wikimedia.org/2014/07/15/wikimedia-foundation-offers-assistance-to-named-defamation-editors/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/u9a9dq - Wikimedia Foundation offers assistance to Wikipedia editors named in U.S. defamation suit â Wikimedia blog
<greg-g> guy objects to some stuff on a *TALK PAGE*, not the article itself
<brousch> cmaloney: I also don't like your perforations. I don't know what to do about them
<cmaloney> brousch: Best way to deal with those would be to surround them and somehow wall them off
<brousch> They spread too quickly
<cmaloney> They're not a particularly strong formation
<cmaloney> I've had similar formations decimated by GnuGo.
<cmaloney> http://www.dragongoserver.net/show_games.php?uid=73785
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/AVT8km - DGS - Dragon Go Server
<brousch> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=mco.prj.srv.bwgnugo
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/y8hpM2 - BW-GnuGo - Android Apps on Google Play
<brousch> Do you use that one? I couldn't get it to work
<cmaloney> yeah, though the interface is a little tricky.
<cmaloney> Select the "hand" icon and select the "gnu"
<cmaloney> it's also not a stand-alone app. You'll need bwgo
<cmaloney> https://play.google.com/store/apps/developer?id=Marc+Oldenhof
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/5FmKgi - Marc Oldenhof - Android Apps on Google Play
<brousch> gah, that did it
<brousch> I had go free, but could not figure out how to find gnu in the game
<cmaloney> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=lrstudios.games.ego.lite
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/ypYRd4 - ElyGo Lite (Go Game) - Android Apps on Google Play
<cmaloney> This is also a pretty straightforward one. I picked it up last night
<cmaloney> (the paid version)
<cmaloney> has IGS support instead of Dragon Go Server.
<cmaloney> greg-g: This guy sounds awesome.
<cmaloney> Definitely someone I want managing my investments
<greg-g> totes
 * greg-g kicks himself
<greg-g> stupid CA speak
<cmaloney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qb21lsCQ3EM
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/SqAJHl - Moon Zappa Valley Girl - YouTube
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's last track - Dolphin Escape by AndrewPlusJohn on Sonic Embrace [15 Jul 2014, 13:03]
<cmaloney> Ah, not scrobbling radio tracks
<cmaloney> Probably for the better.
<mrgoodcat> For you PC builders out there http://pangoly.com/en/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/X65pLK - Pangoly - Build your shiny new PC, Gaming PCs, Parts Configurator
<cmaloney> http://pangoly.com/en/review/plextor-m6e-256gb-pci-express-px-ag256m6e/5fbc3b15-40ee-e311-9409-00155d0f1804 <- da fuq?
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/8mW0MW - Plextor M6e 256GB PCI Express PX-AG256M6e Review - Pangoly
<cmaloney> The "for gamers" tag on this card makes no sense.
<cmaloney> https://plus.google.com/+SndChaser/posts/iadrhB1rj3G
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/wu0zQs - 10 Netlabels To Follow -â¦
<mrgoodcat> where do you see said tag
<mrgoodcat> ?
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: See description
<cmaloney> I understand that a good SSD will give you better overall performance, but calling it "gamer" is kinda silly
<cmaloney> Like saying your equipment rack is "audiophile": http://www.hometheatersound.com/equipment/steve_blinn_designs_3_shelf.htm
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/CL24Lf - Home Theater & Sound Equipment Review -- Steve Blinn Designs 3-Shelf Extra-Wide Equipment Rack (7/2008)
<cmaloney> http://boingboing.net/2014/05/28/10000-audiophile-ethernet-ca.html
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/v7KLai - $10,000 audiophile ethernet cable - Boing Boing
<mrgoodcat> lol audiophile ethernet cable
<mrgoodcat> read an article where "professionals" listened using different cables. They were unable to distinguish monster cables from a taken apart coathanger. looking for the source now
<mrgoodcat> http://gizmodo.com/363154/audiophile-deathmatch-monster-cables-vs-a-coat-hanger
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/hRek - Audiophile Deathmatch: Monster Cables vs. a Coat Hanger
<mrgoodcat> not professionals then
<mrgoodcat> but still
<cmaloney> Yeah, it's been pretty well documented that the only thing an audiophile is sensitive isn't music.
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> "The 3-Shelf Extra-Wide Equipment Rack brought clarity and definition to the upper registers. The decays of cymbal and piano notes sounded more realistic."
<greg-g> wtf
<cmaloney> greg-g: Exactly.
<cmaloney> The only thing I see this thing improving is if you're in a dwelling that has vibration outside the tolerances of your equipment
<cmaloney> eg: a CD player with no dampeners.
<cmaloney> or a turntable
<cmaloney> That whole article is nothing but a sign post saying "now leaving: sanity"
<mrgoodcat> http://ckon.wordpress.com/2014/07/14/php-5-7-twice-as-fast/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/sVKJaF - PHP NG now nearly TWICE as fast as PHP 5.6 | _ck_ says...
<mrgoodcat> clickbait title
<mrgoodcat> but actually kinda cool if you're at all interested in the PHP NG project
<greg-g> bah, hhvm or nothing
<greg-g> we're switching to HHVM
<greg-g> we're even special enough to get a FB developer to join our team for a month, full-time
<greg-g> :) :)
<greg-g> to help us transition
<mrgoodcat> thats cool
<mrgoodcat> php ng is just nice because it's supposed to be completely compatible with current php
<mrgoodcat> no "help us transition"
<greg-g> yeah
<mrgoodcat> just works way faster
<mrgoodcat> still allows you to write string cheese shit code though
<greg-g> we're going to get on the order of magnitude of 10x faster with HHVM
<mrgoodcat> s/allows/encourages
<greg-g> official stats to come, of course
<mrgoodcat> of course
<mrgoodcat> where are you seeing the greatest speedups?
<mrgoodcat> what types of code
<greg-g> type as in?
<mrgoodcat> db code, float point maths, stream processing, etc...
<greg-g> to give you more info: we're going to be switching our jobrunners to HHVM by the end of the month, because that is a bunch of stuff that takes a while (hence being an offloaded job), and it can be gradually phased in (we have many different job queues)
<greg-g> not sure if any specific area
<mrgoodcat> what sort of batch jobs? data analysis?
<mrgoodcat> s/batch//
<greg-g> search related, image related, etc
<greg-g> here are our queues, which will give you an idea: http://paste.debian.net/110018/
<mrgoodcat> lol one of them is gigantic
<mrgoodcat> compared to the others
<mrgoodcat> so updating search indexes and html caches and such
<mrgoodcat> and transcoding
<mrgoodcat> wtf is this one? ParsoidCacheUpdateJobOnDependencyChange: 264971 queued;
<greg-g> yeah, that's a copy/paste from when we were diagnosing that, and really, that one isn't too bad that it's clogged, as long as it is not getting bigger constantly
<greg-g> parsoid == new parser backend
<greg-g> cache update job = cache update job
<mrgoodcat> wiki -> html?
<greg-g> on dependency change == when a page changes that would affect other pages (inclusion)
<mrgoodcat> i got it
<mrgoodcat> ok
 * greg-g nods
<mrgoodcat> so its ok if that one is a bit slow
<mrgoodcat> since it doesn't affect the page being edited directly
<greg-g> yeah, mostly because parsoid is only used for our new VisualEditor
<mrgoodcat> oh got it
<greg-g> parsoid converts wikitext to annotated html5 which the VisualEditor then edits
<mrgoodcat> then back to wikitext? or just left as HTML?
<greg-g> yeah, wikitext is currently the canonical version
<greg-g> in the future the plan is to make the annotated html5 canonical and generate the wikitext from that
<greg-g> they have an immense round-trip testing infrastructure
<greg-g> "they" == the parsoid team
<mrgoodcat> got it. so the do wikitext1 > html > wikitext2, then test wikitext1 == wikitext2
<greg-g> yah
<mrgoodcat> well this is fucked http://easycount.mjec.net/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/Hz5uWL - FOI request for EasyCount
<mrgoodcat> the australian government won't release the source code for the software used to count votes because it contains an algorithmic trade secret
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-07-16
<jrwren> i'm going to be playing with this for a while... thanks cmaloney  :) http://pangoly.com/en/build/share/de082a87-a5c9-424c-bf59-ce4cc4b86556
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/2Alnic - User generated PC build: GIGABYTE, Intel, Kingston, SeaSonic, Thermaltake, Crucial - Pangoly
<cmaloney> jrwren: Thank mrgoodcat
<mrgoodcat> pcpartpicker is pretty good too
<cmaloney> evening
<sydney> cmaloney: Hulo :)
<sydney> cmaloney: where do you live in Michigan?
<cmaloney> sydney: Detrtoitvarea
<cmaloney> ou?
<sydney> cmaloney: Grand Rapids area ;)
<cmaloney> ah, brousch is there as well
<sydney> cmaloney: yep,i talked to him yesterday. hi brousch !! :D
<sydney> cmaloney: what version of ubuntu do you run?
<greg-g> Debian Testing :P
<cmaloney> https://www.fitbit.com/us/toryburch
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/9Eqxxz - Tory Burch for Fitbit
<cmaloney> And people say I'm hard to shop for. :)
<cmaloney> (Note: I really think these are gaudy)
<jrwren> lol @ debian testing.
<nullspace> rick_h__: how goes it working with a Apple laptop?
<rick_h__> nullspace: don't know, done with it :)
<jrwren> O_O
<jrwren> what did you do with it?
<rick_h__> well it's sitting under a pile of bills atm
<rick_h__> on my second desk
<rick_h__> not qa'ing anything in safari/osx atm :)
<jrwren> so sad.   <3 mine.
<rick_h__> ugh, hate that dippy thing.
<jrwren> dippy?
<cmaloney> You have to understand that MacOS X is not rick_h__ approved.
<rick_h__> nor is that keyboard, or screen, or touchpad, or ...
<rick_h__> dippy is a more playful stupid :)
<jrwren> if the pci webcam worked in linux, it would be fully featured. I really like it.
<rick_h__> don't be so dippy!
<rick_h__> yea, that's a deal killer for me
<jrwren> ok, making sure I wasn't missing some awesome dippy feature :)
<rick_h__> so now just hating on this xps13
<rick_h__> though I did hook up the air to my 'misc' display and use it for lightroom when I got back from the 4th holiday
<cmaloney> I'm surprised the X230 hasn't made a return
<rick_h__> lack of working mic kills that
<rick_h__> and I do like the screen on the xps (well size, cursed reflective screens!)
<nullspace> I can't even remember when I needed a mic or a webcam on a laptop
<rick_h__> heh, I had 7 hours of google hangouts monday
<rick_h__> yay me!
<rick_h__> well, 7 scheduled. Some went short thankfully
<nullspace> can't you use your tablet for that?
<rick_h__> no, referencing google docs, code snippets, other urls from a tablet is not going to work
<rick_h__> it's not like we're just shooting the breeze in the calls :)
<nullspace> was just thinking use the tablet for the hangout and use your lappy for doc referencign and such
<rick_h__> that's true I guess, except you can't copy/paste
<rick_h__> so I guess you could connect twice, mute the laptop mic, and make it work
<rick_h__> but at some point you just buy a laptop with working mic/camera
<nullspace> true
<jrwren> not nearly as convenient as Just Works desktop hangout
<cmaloney> And then bitch about how $current_laptop isn't a thinkpad.
<rick_h__> yep!
<rick_h__> hey, I've kept my bitching to a min. nullspace asked me :)
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> I liken it to a dam bursting
<rick_h__> so laptop -1 is a work QA machine and photo machine only
<rick_h__> and sits in a corner quietly
<nullspace> I only ask as I might be getting a company issued machine and the higher ups have made it clear they are interesting in having an "app"
<brousch> Everyone needs an app!
<rick_h__> so running linux on it wasn't a dream.
<rick_h__> the camera doesn't work, the touchpad software is a lot worse, and the mixed up keyboard needs some remapping
<brousch> heh
<rick_h__> and if you dual boot every osx update requires you to setup refindit again to get into your linux side
<brousch> Remap your brain! Think different!
<nullspace> aside from the not linux friendly parts of the laptop how was it just as an OSX machine?
<cmaloney> Yeah
<rick_h__> nullspace: it was ok, I had the 11" and the screen res is too tiny
<rick_h__> nullspace: I can't use lightroom without an external monitor
<jrwren> i had no touchpad issues. it just works, and refindit also just works. other than that, what rick_h__ said :)
<brousch> And if rick_h__ says the screen res is too tiny, that means something!
<rick_h__> I had some wifi issues, but when I upgraded my router it went away. So who knew
<jrwren> as a prev owner of an 11", I agree. I've found 13" is perfect for me.
<rick_h__> upgraded to AC and it would find the wifi on resume right away vs literally minutes on my N network gear
<rick_h__> jrwren: yea, I've got the 13" now with 1920x1080 and <3
<rick_h__> well, I've got A 13" laptop (not the air 13)
<brousch> I agree 12"-14" is the ideal laptop size
<cmaloney> I wonder if you might like the Macbook Pro 13" better
<rick_h__> the damn thing on the 11 is that they have a decent keyboard, so the 11" screen is purely artificial
<nullspace> ah, yeah I'd likely need to go to powerbook
<cmaloney> but it's a much more expensive screen
<rick_h__> they have a giant bezel around the screen
<rick_h__> it could have been a 12 or 12.5" without changing the form factor at all
<cmaloney> rick_h__: That's the "built to a price" machine
<rick_h__> but they're tied to their 13, 15, 17 history
<nullspace> there was 17" mac?
<cmaloney> Similar to the low-end 13" MacBookPro
<jrwren> I beat the heck out of my laptops and the air holds up. I think part of the reason for the screen border is so it can survive drops and in my case, collisions in a bike bag
<rick_h__> nullspace: yea, I had a 17", last non-intel they had
<cmaloney> nullspace: back in 2006 when those were fashionable
<nullspace> must have missed it
<jrwren> i think 17" macbook pros are still a thing.
<cmaloney> jrwren: Doubtful
<cmaloney> Largest screen is 15"
<rick_h__> I thought it was deprecated with 15" retina
<rick_h__> once that came out they stopped with the 17
<cmaloney> Though the iMac could be considered a laptop if the keyboard folded over the screen. ;)
<jrwren> ah. i see.
<brousch> My sister had a 17" macbook. It was a beast
<brousch> http://www.businessspectator.com.au/article/2014/6/3/technology/three-one-aussie-device-could-kill-pc
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/WmExGA - The three-in-one Aussie device that could kill the PC | Business Spectator
<cmaloney> Two words: bullshit
<brousch> OBviously it won't kill the PC, but nifty device
<cmaloney> I'll be surprise if this makes it out of the funding gate and into the production gate.
<cmaloney> There's a huge gap between prototype and production
<cmaloney> I do wonder how much of a market there is for these convertible devices though
<_stink_> sales staff?  that's all i can think of
<cmaloney> Seems like the Netbook phenomenon all over again
<cmaloney> Everyone will have to have one, until nobody wants one
<cmaloney> _stink_: yeah, much the same way that "hotelling" caught on.
<brousch> I would like this. I want a dual-boot Android/Linux tablet
<brousch> However it needs more than 32GB for the Linux part
<brousch> cmaloney: wow. I missed nearly all of the prisoners you took. I only noticed 2 of them
<greg-g> wait, they're basically doing what Canonical wanted to do, even after Canonical stopped going down the route, and they're calling the device... Unity
 * greg-g headdesks
<rick_h__> greg-g: ?
<greg-g> http://www.businessspectator.com.au/article/2014/6/3/technology/three-one-aussie-device-could-kill-pc
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/WmExGA - The three-in-one Aussie device that could kill the PC | Business Spectator
<greg-g> lol, the video is hilariously bad
<rick_h__> hmm, well we are still trying to do the convergence story of desktop off your device I think
<greg-g> so, even worse then :)
<greg-g> trying to do what canonical is also trying to do, and calling it unity
<rick_h__> oh, so this is android tied
<rick_h__> yea, not that
<brousch> greg-g: Even using Ubuntu!
<greg-g> oh, rick_h__, while you're here...
<greg-g> short list of good tech management books?
<greg-g> in ~2 weeks (hopefully, pending any last minute vetos) I'll officially have 7 engineers reporting to me. Right now those 7 are "on my team" (for various values of "on" "my" and "team")
<rick_h__> greg-g: quit now and run away?
<greg-g> :(
 * greg-g waits for rick_h__ to smile, waits for rick_h__ to smile.... please smile.... please smile
<rick_h__> honestly, I've not had a chance to look at many books.
<rick_h__> time for that is something I just can't scrounge up
<greg-g> oh, I thought you had like 5 or so you were reading
<rick_h__> heh, I read a kanban book, and bought 3 I've not opened
<greg-g> yeah, I have 5ish hours of commute time each week, so...
<greg-g> gotcha
<rick_h__> yea, I had hoped to find some of the recommended books on audible but no luck
<greg-g> :9
<rick_h__> which has hurt since I could do more of that
<greg-g> :(
<greg-g> yeah
<rick_h__> greg-g: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7804842/ is what I bought
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/ca3354 - Ubuntu Pastebin
<rick_h__> I've only read much into one of them
<brousch> 5 hours commute?!
<rick_h__> I started another
<rick_h__> greg-g: honestly though I'm flying by the seat of my pants and going crazy here so not the best person to chat with.
<brousch> Think of your underlings as server processes. If they don't do what you want, kill them and restart them
<rick_h__> heh, yea not quite the way it works
<brousch> If they are troublesome, add a bunch of tests and monitor them closely. Keep statistics to find out where they are inefficient and ruthlessly correct it.
<cmaloney> brousch: Good game
<cmaloney> brousch: You haven't learned some of my bad habits in Go.
<cmaloney> I tend to try to get a lot of captures and that can lead to me going down a lot of rabbitholes.
<brousch> I'm still not sure of the scoring. You get points for captures and for territory, but I'm not sure of the points for each
<cmaloney> Yeah, the scoring is a little weird
<cmaloney> there's a concept of dead stones that I'm still a little fuzzy on
<cmaloney> But we didn't have any dead stones in this game
<greg-g> brousch: for the week
<greg-g> brousch: 1.25 hours each way, 2 days week
<greg-g> rick_h__: haha
<brousch> cmaloney: I don't understand how territory is converted to points. I had 35 spaces and you had 46, but it gave me 11 points and you 16. Even if you divide it by 3 it would be 11.67 and 15.33
<mrgoodcat> i'm not going to be at CHC tonight
<mrgoodcat> again
<mrgoodcat> :/
<brousch> Ah, scoring is based on the empty spaces you control, not the entire area
<widox> mrgoodcat: now you're on my CHC schedule ;)
<cmaloney> brousch: yep
<cmaloney> The book Beginning Go has a good chapter on scoring
<cmaloney> Though it still eludes me
<cmaloney> Not the least of which is because there's both Japanese and Chinese methods of scoring
<brousch> Wikipedia seemed pretty clear
<brousch> Though dead stones also elude me
<gamerchick02> jrwren! hi!
<gamerchick02> also hello ColonelPanic001 i have not talked to you in awhile.
<jrwren> hi hi
<jrwren> party?
<gamerchick02> sure
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-07-17
<cmaloney> par-tay
<waldo323> :)
<gamerchick02> hee
<gamerchick02> head-ache.  blah. i think it's codep that hurts.
<gamerchick02> gonna take some meds and lay down
<cmaloney> Good morning
<brousch> so far
<brousch> You let me complete my line of doom
<cmaloney> brousch: You mean your weak formation? :)
<brousch> dooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooom
<brousch> I didn't say who it would doom
<cmaloney> At least we're clear on that. ;)
<ColonelPanic001> hi
<rick_h__> party
<nullspace> http://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-announce/2014-July/002457.html
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/lAeUKD - [ANNOUNCE] xorg-server 1.16.0
<jcastro> rick_h__, https://medium.com/@leostatic/cycle-of-vim-e1528fdf18a5
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/jWTaWz - Cycle of Vim â Medium
<jcastro> for you
<jrwren> you login to an ancient unix known as solaris or aix. you try vim. it doesn't work. you try vi. how different can it be? you ask yourself. You try a few things. Nothing works. damn.
<rick_h__> jcastro: :)
<rick_h__> jrwren: you avoid working on archiac stuff and enjoy the modern world at your disposal :)
<cmaloney> Easier said than done.
<greg-g> switch jobs? I was told that was easy.
<rick_h__> you were told that?
<rick_h__> not easy, but definitely a tool available
<jrwren> it was over a decade ago that I learned I do not like vi. I like vim.
<cmaloney> I like vim, but vi is a nice subset
<greg-g> rick_h__: it's the unsaid libertarian mantra
<rick_h__> ah, haven't gone to enough libertarian school. More to learn
<rick_h__> ugh planes getting shot down 2 days before getting on a plane is not a recipe for marital success :/
<greg-g> :/
<jrwren> wait... who is libertarian?
<jrwren> or... greg-g... oh... i see what you did there.
<greg-g> :)
<jcastro> rick_h__, have you seen this: http://oneplus.net/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/JswzDG - Home - OnePlus.net
<jcastro> <cmaloney> I like vim, but vi is a nice subset
<jcastro> I would argue that vim is vi
<jcastro> and that "vi" is dead.
<rick_h__> jcastro: yea, saw that. The whole invite thing is a bit wtf, but interesting.
<jcastro> yeah probably to keep shipping promises realistic
<rick_h__> jcastro: but there are reviews from people that have one
<cmaloney> jcastro: vim has replaced vi in my workflow
<jcastro> otherwise, they'd probably be swamped
<jcastro> rick_h__, are they good?
<cmaloney> but if given the choice between straight-vi and another editor I'd go with vi
<rick_h__> jcastro: seems ok http://www.engadget.com/products/oneplus/one/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/sFOZIb - OnePlus One review - Engadget
<jcastro> Atom is really growing on me
<jcastro> for non-terminal editor I mean
<cmaloney> There are such things? :)
<jcastro> I'm not joking, it's _fantastic_
<jcastro> and it has a vim plugin that is pretty nice
<jcastro> though, rick_h__ we need to swap vim tips
<jcastro> I need better git workflow
<jcastro> like, from inside the editor
<rick_h__> jcastro: I just use the cli and use git aliases to make it work for me
<rick_h__> jcastro: fugative is supposed to be the thing though
<jcastro> huh ... that's very unrick
<cmaloney> I use fugtive but only for display purposes of what branch I'm on
<rick_h__> cliftw (license plate)
<rick_h__> jcastro: in a tiling world I never have a screen without a terminal already.
<rick_h__> so it works better than rearranging my editor for git stuff
<cmaloney> Yeah, I use git on the command-line as well
<cmaloney> it makes more sense to learn git natively than to try to wrap an editor around it
<jcastro> mostly I want it for info purposes
<jcastro> which branch I'm on, etc.
<cmaloney> fugitive
<cmaloney> It'll get you there with no fuss
<rick_h__> jcastro: shell prompt provides all info on current branch/etc. I've got 'git sync' for updating local trunk off upstream and 'git qa-pr' to pull down pull requests and running/testing/qa'ing them locally.'
<rick_h__> jcastro: so happy to share some git hacks, but don't have anything for you in vim.
<rick_h__> other than everyone seems to use fugative, but not been able to get myself into it
<jrwren> jcastro: vim-fugitive has some git command when you need 'em. I rarely use 'em for anything but git blame.
<jcastro> rick_h__, do you have your dotfiles in gh somewhere?
<jcastro> rick_h__, man, I _just_ upgraded to an N5
<rick_h__> jcastro: not that one, it's got some git secrets in it for gh and such
<jcastro> and now run into this godphone
<jrwren> iirc it does info very nicely. right in the bar.
<jcastro> and the N5 lasted 14 days before it went south and tmo had to replace it
<rick_h__> ugh, people seem to love their N5
<rick_h__> waf: has one and seemed happy. I've been waiting for the ubuntu touch stuff to support it and was going to get one as a second phone
<rick_h__> jcastro: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7810107/ is my git config
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/YlNqBK - Ubuntu Pastebin
<rick_h__> still needs some love in tehre
<rick_h__> there
<jcastro> praise = blame
<jcastro> HAHAHAHA
<rick_h__> :)
<cmaloney> Holy shit, Microsoft is cutting 18,000 jobs?
<rick_h__> yea
<cmaloney> So basically Microsoft fired Nokia?
<brousch> Basically
<brousch> Buy it and  fire everyone. That's how you make money!
<cmaloney> Well, about half of Nokia
<cmaloney> It's a sad day in Finland
<jrwren> i wonder how many were US jobs and how many were FIN
<cmaloney> I'm seeing 4,700 FIN jobs
<cmaloney> out of the original 25,000 acquired
<cmaloney> so not sure what the ratio will be
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - The Bells by I:Scintilla on The Approach
<cmaloney> I must have a thing for processed vocals.
<greg-g> danger of working at a coffee shop, fellow coffee shop warrior found out I work at "Wikipedia" and now has some questions he's going to ask me before I leave
<greg-g> (I work for The Wikimedia Foundation, but whatever)
<jrwren> found out?
<jrwren> why not say, "no, I don't work for wikipedia, I work for the wikimedia foundation"
<jrwren> see if that throws him :p
<greg-g> well, he asked if I worked there since I was wearing a wikipedia shirt
<cmaloney> dangers of wearing branded merchandise related to work
<greg-g> it's a common mistake and one almost not worth correcting 90% of the time
<greg-g> hey, I got this shirt before I was employed!
<cmaloney> "No, we work for Wikimedia, the porn-hosting portion of wikipedia. ;) "
<greg-g> (I also have a Wikimedia Foundation branded messenger bag I got at my 6 month mark...)
<cmaloney> My Go board came in the mail today.
<cmaloney> 9x9 and 13x13 flippy
<cmaloney> Hopefully it'll be as nice as it looked on the Amazon page.
<cmaloney> http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgameversion/37236/avalon-hill-bookshelf-edition <- Hopefully it'll be better than this version. ;)
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/bvkJw2 - Go (Avalon Hill Bookshelf edition) | Board Game Version | BoardGameGeek
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-07-18
<cmaloney> http://www.vox.com/2014/7/15/5881947/myers-briggs-personality-test-meaningless
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/xs3Wha - Why the Myers-Briggs test is totally meaningless - Vox
<cmaloney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSgUPqygAww
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/r2jw8K - Linus Torvalds Guided Tour of His Home Office - YouTube
<jrwren> rick_h__: wine or beer?
<rick_h__> jrwren: always wine
<jrwren> that is what I thought, but I wasn't sure.
<jrwren> Red or White?
<rick_h__> red, though I like a rose this time of year
<rick_h__> jrwren: what's up?
<jrwren> just wanna know what to bring back :p
<rick_h__> hah, where you headed?
<rick_h__> You mentioned it and I forgot it.
<jrwren> its Good Hart, MI. nothing around, but there is a little vineard between it and Harbor Springs.
<jrwren> I bought some bottles there last year, it was good enough.
<rick_h__> ah, very cool
<rick_h__> wife and I are hoping to visit the traverse city winery stuff this fall
<rick_h__> going with the whole family or couple's getaway?
<jrwren> bringing the kid.
<jrwren> just the 3 of us, but its still kind-of our 10yr anniversary vacation.
<rick_h__> ah well congrats!
<jrwren> thanks.
<brousch> rick_h__: We'll be camping in Traverse City August 9-10
<rick_h__> brousch: woot!
<rick_h__> let me know where you end up and how it is
<brousch> Big family camping trip (my parents, my 5 siblings, their kids)
<rick_h__> the wife and I want to do a getaway camping trip up there this fall
<brousch> It's at the state park. Pretty nice
<brousch> Trails right nearby, beach very close
<brousch> http://goo.gl/maps/OW2U6
<bookiebot> Google Maps
<brousch> There's a pedestrian bridge across the highway to the beach
<rick_h__> nice, beach ftw
<brousch> Nice camping lots with fire pits
<rick_h__> I know that place. We walked along the board walk there I think
<rick_h__> didn't realize the campground was there
<brousch> Quite wooded
<rick_h__> yea, very cool
<brousch> A friend of mine is moving to AA to work at Atomic Object there
<rick_h__> sweet
<cmaloney> I think I just found a scumbag scraping site.
<cmaloney> http://www.activehire.com/resumes/Python <- rick_h__: Search for your address.
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/OD99jS - Python Resumes
<rick_h__> cmaloney: yea, pretty much
<cmaloney> http://www.activehire.com/resumes/opsview
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/RJgwLF - opsview Resumes
<cmaloney> And that's mine
<cmaloney> Fuckers.
<cmaloney> Nice.
<cmaloney> https://www.freelancer.com/projects/PHP-Software-Architecture/Resume-Scraper-ZipRecruiter.html
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/V5e2r3 - Resume Scraper ZipRecruiter and ZillionResumes | PHP | Software Architecture
<cmaloney> This is where they got the resume from
<brousch> Hah. I'm not on there because I have not touched my resume since 1999
<cmaloney> That kind of irritates me that they're making money aggregating my resume
<cmaloney> Perhaps I should license it BY-NC-ND
<cmaloney> There we go: http://decafbad.net/files/craig_maloney_resume.pdf
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/3qvgXa - application/pdf
<cmaloney> License is on the last page. :)
<cmaloney> Man I need to update this pig.
<greg-g> rick_h__: bookie got a shout out in https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/sandstorm-io-personal-cloud-platform from Asheesh
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/I7ZeRi - Sandstorm.io - Personal Cloud Platform | Indiegogo
<rick_h__> greg-g: woot
<rick_h__> hmm, this seems very freedombox
<greg-g> yeah, along with... what's that rpi based one....
<rick_h__> it's not django!
<rick_h__> very cool though
<rick_h__> I kept looking for it but see it's in the video
<cmaloney> Hah, it's a Django app!
<cmaloney> rick_h__:  That's awesome.
<brousch> As are all excellent things
<rick_h__> even with that snafu I'll send them $$
<cmaloney> The interesting bits are the sandboxing
<rick_h__> lxc containers ftw?
<cmaloney> I don't think they're containers
<cmaloney> looks like something where the app doesn't talk directly to the outside or the OS.
<cmaloney> this looks a lot like what SF was (clumsily) doing wiht Hosted Apps
<jcastro> argh, going from triple monitors down to one
<jcastro> is ;_;
<rick_h__> lol
<rick_h__> down to one?
<rick_h__> I thought you only lost one
<jcastro> the 2nd one is a synergied one
<rick_h__> ah
<jcastro> so it's there, but not like, a workspace when navigating
<rick_h__> right
<jcastro> aka dedicated gmail/calendar
<cmaloney> Uhg
<cmaloney> http://lifehacker.com/lifehacker-pack-for-linux-our-list-of-the-essential-li-815376368
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/snGEPs - Lifehacker Pack for Linux: Our List of the Essential Linux Apps
<greg-g> fuck the word "apps"
<cmaloney> greg-g: Now now
<greg-g> :)
<cmaloney> How are the unwashed masses going to know that Linux has "applications"
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - Physical Education by Animals as Leaders on The Joy Of Motion
<cmaloney> God, I love this song
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-07-19
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7819787/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/N5Dqgq - Ubuntu Pastebin
<rick_h__> party
<cmaloney> Evening. :)
<cmaloney> Man, we're really chatty in here.
<greg-g> shhhh
<greg-g> I was here today: https://secure.flickr.com/photos/grggrssmr/14693074652/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/QjJfej - Rivertown revival | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
<greg-g> might go back after Rowan wakes up
<cmaloney> Very cool
<greg-g> was a mix of normals and burners
<cmaloney> burners == ?
<cmaloney> am only familiar with burners in the druggie-phone sense.
<greg-g> Burning Man
<greg-g> people who go to Burning Man
<cmaloney> Ah, OK.
<cmaloney> I call those folks "buskers".
<cmaloney> because invariably they're going to ask for cash or to buy their CD at some point. ;)
<greg-g> haha
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-07-20
<cmaloney> http://www.tutorialspoint.com/pascal/index.htm
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/44BGIi - text/html
<rick_h__> hello from across an ocean
<cmaloney> rick_h__: Greetings.
<brousch> rick_h__: You in Japan?
<rick_h__> brousch: no, london
<gamerchick02> nice. enjoy your time rick_h__
<cmaloney> whew
<cmaloney> just did the lawn
<gamerchick02> yay lawn
<gamerchick02> wow i was digging into my collection to steam games and whoa. i have some decent stuff
<gamerchick02> The Swapper is cool puzzle fun
<gamerchick02> also i just lost an hour to Civ V
<_stink_> that you limited it to an hour is a victory
<_stink_> congrats
<gamerchick02> well i wanted to see what else i had in my steam inventory and... yeah.
<cmaloney> heh
<gamerchick02> i picked up Terraria too
<gamerchick02> Steam sale.
<gamerchick02> "hide yer credit cards!!"
<cmaloney> http://robotpornmetaldubstep.bandcamp.com/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/mIz5S0 - Robot Porn (Metal/Dubstep)
<gamerchick02> this is... interesting.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-07-13
<cmaloney> Good morning. :)
<ColonelPanic001> 'morning
<ColonelPanic001> cmaloney: you familiar with Amiensus on bandcamp?
<ColonelPanic001> they released their second album not long ago, it's pretty damn good. I hear a little ahead of time they posted, and was kinda on the fence, but it turned out a lot better than I thought.
<ColonelPanic001> https://amiensus.bandcamp.com/album/ascension fwiw
<cmaloney> ColonelPanic001: Checking it out.
<cmaloney> Needs more Creative Commons. :)
<ColonelPanic001> it would be nice, but they didn't ask me :(
<cmaloney> heh
<greg-g> my god. sitting and working on a laptop for only 2 hours, after just 7 days of camping and playing out doors, is hard as hell
<jrwren> yup
<greg-g> I triaged my email backlog mostly already, which is nice I guess
<cmaloney> mutt to the rescue
<rick_h_> afternoon
<cmaloney> Howdy'
<greg-g> cmaloney: +10
<_stink_> amiensus++
<cmaloney> Evening and all that
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-07-14
<cmaloney> New Club Metal being released.
<cmaloney> http://openmetalcast.com/2015/07/13/open-metalcast-special-episode-club-metal-15/
<rick_h_> morning and all that
<wolfger> morning
<wolfger> and some of that
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> MUG tonight. :)
<rick_h_> party on
<cmaloney> I think I hear some overwhelm in rick_h_'s keystrokes.
<jrwren> i got a letter from comcast. it says my speed increased from 50Mbps to 75Mbps. It tells me to power cycle the modem to get the udpate. I think its actually an update that lets FBI spy on me.
<rick_h_> jrwren: but...you get 25mbs in exchange for the spying
<cmaloney> So win-win. ;)
<cmaloney> Yeah, WOWWay upped us to 50mbps
<cscheib> I got teh upgrade too, jrwren
<cmaloney> Well, 60ish
<cmaloney> and 5 up
<cscheib> they're trying to bring up the average in certain markets most likely
<cscheib> so they can deflect when the FCC tells them that US broadband speeds are a joke
<cmaloney> Well, they are. :)
<jrwren> i'm pretty happy with my speed.
<jrwren> i thought maybe they did it because ATT is rolling out FIOS in the area.
<cmaloney> Possibly
<cmaloney> But the biggest problem with FIOS is ATT
<greg-g> oh, it's just a big game and they aren't giving you what they could before until some other competitor forces them? weird.
<cmaloney> Capitalism at work. ;)
<cmaloney> It's the FREEEE MARRRRKETTTT
<jrwren> greg-g: um, yup.
<greg-g> the inefficiencies of capitalism, that is :)
<cscheib> no FIOS here
<jrwren> cmaloney: hahahaha, did you see the poorly drawn commic of the guy biking on no road who gets hurt and says save me ron paul?
<cscheib> so don't think that's the driver
<greg-g> I can't wait until Sonic.net rolls out FTTH in Petaluma
<cmaloney> jrwren: I missed that.
<cscheib> since the failed merger and the reclassification of interweb services, they've all just been under increased scrutiny
<greg-g> (good)
<greg-g> I'm a fan of scrutiny :)
<cscheib> didn't say it was a bad thing
<greg-g> I know :)
<cscheib> but they're certainly not just trying to be good guys
<greg-g> I'm just giving my own commentary ;)
<greg-g> totally
<cmaloney> Yeah, I'm a fan of referees in most games
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-07-15
<waldo323> cmaloney, when did chc move to rochester?
<cscheib> Puppet User Group on Monday: http://meetu.ps/2KdSck
<jrwren> oh yeah!  testing out my cable modem reflash. I just got over 100Mbit
<jrwren> err, am still getting I should say.
<rick_h_> heh cool
<cmaloney> Morning
<greg-g> cmaloney: assume you saw http://somafm.com/metal/
<greg-g> somafm's first metal station
<cmaloney> greg-g: I've been listening to it for about a week or so. ;)
<cmaloney> Pretty heavy on Voivod and Venom
<cmaloney> But yeah, it's pretty sweet to see them branch out
<cmaloney> Offered to help curate if they wanted some more CC music
<greg-g> yeah, still preview mode I think
<cmaloney> Yay bad sector on RAID partition
<jrwren> doesn't the kernel relocate that for you?
<cmaloney> It's surfacing errors
<cmaloney> and I have a corrupted .vdi file as a result
<greg-g> :(
<cmaloney> 's OK.
<cmaloney> Removed the drive. Now for a trip to Microcenter.
<cmaloney> Woo woo.
<cscheib> jrwren: think that truck stop organics is my new daily drinker, easier to find than Great Lakes
<jrwren> cscheib: you found it!
<cscheib> yea, meijer just got it in stock
<jrwren> cscheib: cool! I like that stuff.
<cscheib> jrwren: any time for lunch tomorrow?  probably gotta be close to my office, unfortunately, boss may be there... I can let you know tomorrow what my range is
<jrwren> cscheib: ANY other week and I'd say yes, but its Art Fair. I'd have to cross town in the craziest traffic known ot Ann Arbor.
<cscheib> oh f*** that's right
<cscheib> I really don't want to go to the office ;_;
<cmaloney> heh
<cscheib> jrwren: I allegedly have to start going in again (until I resign and get a new job, hopefully soon), so maybe next week
<jrwren> cscheib: well, i'm sorry you have to go in and find a new job and I welcome having lunch with you until you do :)
<cscheib> looking at remote-only positions with a couple startups
<cscheib> which reminds me, I have 2 cover letters to write.
<mrgoodcat> zingerman's coffee is pretty good if you're in ann arbor
<greg-g> busy. as. fuck. this week
<greg-g> art fair man. art fair.
<jrwren> and its only pretty good. Truck Stop is very good. :)
<mrgoodcat> chazzano is the best
<mrgoodcat> but its in ferndale
<mrgoodcat> long drive for ann arbor folk
<jrwren> i dunno. i'm pretty picky.
<mrgoodcat> the meijer supply chain isn't capable of getting coffee roasted fresh enough to beat out chazzano
<jrwren> I know many people love Roos Roast, and it is good, but I don't LOVE it.
<mrgoodcat> i promise you. chazzano can't be beat
<jrwren> oh?
<jrwren> promises promises
<mrgoodcat> desert oasis in rochester is the closest i've seen yet
<mrgoodcat> zingerman's doesn't even make the chazzano scale
<mrgoodcat> and i doubt anything available at meijer does either
<jrwren> I've had roasted same day pour through from Milan Coffee Works.
<jrwren> https://www.facebook.com/pages/Milan-Coffee-Works/153512968189843?fref=nf
<mrgoodcat> same day roast isn't ideal
<mrgoodcat> it takes up to 48 hours for coffee to properly degas after roasting
<mrgoodcat> but after 100 or so hours it's dead
<jrwren> *sigh*
<jrwren> and steamed eggs are superior to over easy, right?
<mrgoodcat> coffee is fine for like 15 days though if you don't grind it
<mrgoodcat> just not ideal
<mrgoodcat> "dead" is probably a strong term for 100 hour makr
<mrgoodcat> mark*
<mrgoodcat> never had steamed eggs
<mrgoodcat> :P
<mrgoodcat> you were the one that said you were picky
<jrwren> I'm picky on taste, not process.
<jrwren> it can be year old for all I care, as long as it tastes good
<mrgoodcat> but the age affects taste
<mrgoodcat> as gasses are released
<jrwren> ok.
<mrgoodcat> if you drink it too soon after roast the gasses haven't released enough to give it good aromatics, but after so many days they are all released into the void and you lose them
<jrwren> loved the same day roast.
<mrgoodcat> i believe it
<mrgoodcat> i didn't say "bad"
<mrgoodcat> just not ideal
<jrwren> got it.
<jrwren> possibly ideal for my pickiness of taste.
<mrgoodcat> possibly
<mrgoodcat> its all very subjective
<mrgoodcat> the most important aspect is that it takes about 8 hours to lose all of the CO2
<mrgoodcat> so it can taste bitter for the first 8 or so hours
<mrgoodcat> anybody want a keybase.io invite? seems like every time i sneeze they give me 3 more
<jrwren> co2 has odor and taste?
<jrwren> they raised 10M in funding recently.
<mrgoodcat> jrwren: yes it does. the most obvious way to demonstrate it is to carbonate plain water and drink it
<mrgoodcat> spoiler: it tastes like crap
<mrgoodcat> i tried with my sodastream on the advice of the owner of chazzano
<jrwren> ah right, pellegrino and perrier
<mrgoodcat> i use a chemex or v60 at home depending on my mood and buy coffee from chazzano every 2 weeks
<mrgoodcat> i use a baratza encore grinder too so i buy whole bean
<mrgoodcat> 55g of coffee per Litre of water at 205 degrees
<mrgoodcat> as measured by a digital scale and digital electric kettle
<mrgoodcat> what about you?
<mrgoodcat> i've been thinking of getting a french press
<mrgoodcat> even a standard drip maker can yield some pretty good results with quality beans though
<jrwren> no chemex and I don't know what v60 is
<mrgoodcat> v60 is a pourover cone
<jrwren> I throw coffee in a Mr. Coffee maker and I dirnk it.
<mrgoodcat> heh
<mrgoodcat> i use a mr coffee before work a lot
<mrgoodcat> low hassle and quick
<jrwren> often french press too.
<jrwren> capresso grindiner
<jrwren> IME grinding the beans yourself is the second most important thing next to not buying crap coffee.
<mrgoodcat> oh yea
<mrgoodcat> definitely
<mrgoodcat> once you grind it you have about 10 minutes before it loses the aromatics
<mrgoodcat> the only time i pre-grind is when i'm traveling. i have a ball jar i use for it
<jrwren> chemex steeps in the grinds pretty long, right?
<mrgoodcat> 3 minutes
<jrwren> oh.
<mrgoodcat> it's basically pourover
<jrwren> you should definitely get a frenchpres.
<jrwren> ts.
<jrwren> you can do long steeps.
<jrwren> I'll do 8-10min instead of 4. Its nice.
<mrgoodcat> over extraction makes coffee bitter
<mrgoodcat> you have to grind way bigger to steep that long
<jrwren> its GOOODDD
<mrgoodcat> like way bigger
<jrwren> very coarse is what to do for press.
<cscheib> mrgoodcat: I like Chazzano, but I can never get there during business hours it seems
<mrgoodcat> cscheib: no they close early
<mrgoodcat> 6 on weekdays, 5 on friday
<mrgoodcat> closed sunday afaik
<jrwren> thems some weird coffee house hours.
<mrgoodcat> they're not in downtown so they don't get many night customers
<mrgoodcat> most of their business is wholesale
<mrgoodcat> and subscriptions
<cscheib> I should do online ordering, but I have a hard time doing that for a place that's less than 20 mins away
<cscheib> I've heard there're some places that'll sell it locally
<cscheib> but it's hard to tell from their f'ing website
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> http://chazzanocoffee.com/locations.php
<cscheib> since they don't separate places that SERVE it (i.e. offices) and places that SELL it
<cscheib> ^^
<cscheib> look at that list, it's a  bunch of dentist's offices and such
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> whole foods for ann arbor folk
<jrwren> oh, my whole foods. I'll have to check.
<mrgoodcat> dont know how long they hold it in stock though
<mrgoodcat> so it may be a bit deflated
<jrwren> 1000 years.
<cscheib> sure, I could drop into my old employer, North American Bancard and have a chat
<mrgoodcat> hehe
<mrgoodcat> ALCOA Mill Products in Iowa
<cscheib> didn't realize Whole Foods had it
<mrgoodcat> wish my employer would spring for good coffee
<mrgoodcat> we drink dirt
<cscheib> but, doesn't help, as I don't have one nearby
<mrgoodcat> s/we/they
<mrgoodcat> i don't drink it
<cscheib> 30 mins to the Troy one... not going to Detroit...  I'm rarely out in A2
<mrgoodcat> cscheib: where is nearby if you don't mind me asking?
<cscheib> Grosse Pointe
<cscheib> I'm occasionally near Randazzo market, but it doesn't explicitly say whether they sell it or serve it.
<mrgoodcat> time to go home
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-07-16
<rick_h_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjfDBqqLaLk for the wtf of the night
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> morning
<wolfger> morning
<wolfger> So, anybody here familiar with running Ubuntu in a virtual machine from inside Win7? Recommendations? Gotchas?
<cmaloney> Some folks here at work do it just fine
<cmaloney> I don't think there's any major issues
<cmaloney> They use VirtualBox
<wolfger> and in doing so, can you access files stored on the non-virtual drive?
<wolfger> I'm looking to get back into Ubuntu things without the hassle of dual-booting
<cmaloney> If you use Guest Additions you can set up virtual network shares to the host machine
<wolfger> OK. I guess I'm going to learn new stuff. Not a bad thing.
<cmaloney> Yeah, it's all good.
<cmaloney> I'm pretty well versed in VirtualBox so feel free to ping me
<wolfger> will do
<brousch> cmaloney: http://onethingwell.org/post/124235863243/topydo
<cmaloney> brousch: That looks interesting.
<cmaloney> Would replace several plugins I have
<jrwren> if i wanted to grow a file which would ultimately fill my hard disk, I'd do it a different way :)
<cmaloney> Yeah, my "done" file is huuuuuge
<cmaloney> (j/k)
<greg-g> cmaloney: did you see https://ting.com/internet ?
<cmaloney> They've been beta testing that for a bit.
<cmaloney> I really hope they disrupt the fuck out of Comcast.
<cmaloney> Signed up for a notification. ;)
<greg-g> cmaloney: I'm still trying to get sonic to put Petaluma higher on the list than 7: https://www.sonic.com/gigabit-fiber-internet
<greg-g> or we should just move to sebastopol :)
<greg-g> (I'm game with that, Petaluma has jumped the shark)
<cmaloney> Yeah, Leo ruined Petaluma.
<greg-g> :)
<cmaloney> Now EVERYONE wants to go there.
<cmaloney> "Oh, it's so beautiful. Wine country. Blah blah blah."
<greg-g> There's only so much Lagunitas can do to combat leo :)
<greg-g> fuck wine country
<cmaloney> Hey now.
<cmaloney> Them's drinking words
<greg-g> I want cows, now grapes
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> not*
<cmaloney> Gotta love it when Marcel Gagne gives you grief for saying "Maybe" to his "Computer America" invitation
<cmaloney> Sorry, but cat litter comes first.
 * greg-g didn't understand the noun parts of that sentence
<cmaloney> Heh
<cmaloney> Marcel will be on a radio show "Computer America"
<cmaloney> tonight around 10pm
<cmaloney> (ET)
<greg-g> and you.. don't like the show/him?
<cmaloney> No, I've listened / participated
<cmaloney> but it's also trash night
<cmaloney> so I have to do my chores
<cmaloney> first
<greg-g> heh, gotcha
<jrwren> so... sourceforge becomes dicks, projects pull theri stuff and now 1 billion google results fail to docs which were hosted by sourceforge ;(
<jrwren> e.g. find me nagios docs
<jrwren> http://codepen.io/tsbits/pen/VLdWog  i'm flying!
<cscheib> were the Nagios docs useful to begin with?
<greg-g> it was great, our nagios domain was, clearly, nagios.wikimedia.org, then, like the rest of the sane world, we moved to icinga, but kept the domain
<greg-g> the nagios people weren't too happy with that and sent a nasty letter to us
<greg-g> so we changed the domain
<cmaloney> https://www.nagios.org/documentation
<cmaloney> Ah, I see the conundrum
<cmaloney> "#SourceForge There's instability and frequent 500 errors on the SourceForge site currently. We're working on getting this fixed asap."
<cmaloney> https://twitter.com/sfnet_ops
<cmaloney> Apparently there is is either a bot or copy / paste
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-07-17
<jrwren> yeah, nagios is terribad. I can't beleive its still popular.
<jrwren> i'll have to check out icinga
<jrwren> i've had the same nagios config for many years.
<jrwren> so... why migrate... ya know?
<cmaloney> We still use Nagios
<cscheib> icinga is still backed by nagios
<cscheib> just makes it... prettier and easier
<greg-g> cscheib: it's a fork. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icinga
<greg-g> not backed by nagios at all
<greg-g> jrwren: it should be drop-in compat, afaik
<aisrael> jrwren: http://www.devopsdays.org/events/2015-detroit/
<cscheib> aisrael++
<cmaloney> Morning
<_stink_> yo
<rick_h_> party
<greg-g> yoyo
<jcastro> hey cscheib
<jcastro> wanna go to this devops days?
<jcastro> I think aisrael and I will submit a talk too
<cscheib> jcastro: yea, I posted it in here like a week ago, and told aisrael about it :P
<jcastro> oh sorry, I just now got around to it lol
<cscheib> I'm pretty likely to go, although not sure what job situation will look like... I'm on the hunt
<jcastro> ack
<cscheib> p.s. if you know anythign fairly highly paying, local or remote, lemme know
<jcastro> send me a mail would ya?
<jcastro> something I can forward
<cscheib> jorge at canonical?
<jcastro> jorge.castro
<cscheib> k
<aisrael> :D
<cmaloney> Thinking about going to Devops days as well but it's during the work day
<cmaloney> so not 100% sure if going
<jrwren> work should send you.
<jrwren> walk into your bosses office and say "boss man, U need to send me to this."
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> Oh CC, you cray-cray: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/creativecommons/made-with-creative-commons-a-book-on-open-business
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-07-18
<cmaloney> Apparently sf.net is still down
<cmaloney> https://np.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/3do9k0/sourceforge_is_down_due_to_storage_problems_no_eta/ct77o49
<cmaloney> This comment is pure gold.
<greg-g> "it wasn't subtle"
<greg-g> :)
<brousch> cmaloney: Was that you?
<greg-g> that was going to be my second reply, but I think cmaloney was there less than 8 years ago
<greg-g> also, not in ops, afaik
<cmaloney> That wasn't me
<cmaloney> I was in ops, but not in the systems / networking side
<cmaloney> and definitely not speccing out hardware
<cmaloney> Was at sf.net from 2008 - 2010
<cmaloney> Shit, I need to update my resume badly
<cmaloney> still shows me working at ALU
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-07-19
<tony-smlr> SMLR going live E155 (7/19/2015) Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEoUVWcmoq8 Audio: http://live.smlr.us:8000/streaming
<cmaloney> Good morning
<brousch> http://www.thingiverse.com/make:148830
<cmaloney> Oh, that's neat
<brousch> I thought you'd like the comments
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> Yeah, they're quite clever.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-07-18
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h_> morning
<cmaloney> How goes?
<rick_h_> wheeee
<cmaloney> Good whee?
<rick_h_> meh, still sick. getting sick of being sick and working on work stuff so meh wheee
<cmaloney> What did you do to yourself now?
 * rick_h_ needs to just get new lungs
<cmaloney> Ugh
<cmaloney> From being out in the rain or just from having allergies?
<rick_h_> got a cold a couple of weeks ago
<rick_h_> and so it's just refusing to go away
<cmaloney> Oh that sucks
<cmaloney> Have you seen the other doctor about it?
<rick_h_> yea, got some basics but meh
<cmaloney> is it getting worse or ... ?
<rick_h_> just not getting bettter
<cmaloney> Damn. Hoping you can shake it off soon.
<rick_h_> all good
<rick_h_> it'll go away eventually
<rick_h_> always does
<cmaloney> heh
<_stink_> when death comes
<_stink_> :P
<cmaloney> Hey now
<cmaloney> None of that dying thing please
<_stink_> that may have been more welcome in a different channel.
<cmaloney> I've had enough of that
<_stink_> eh ColonelPanic001?
<cmaloney> heh
<_stink_> yes rick_h_ i do hope you continue to live.
<cmaloney> (My uncle that I haven't seen in 30+ years passed away on Wed so went to an impromptu family reunion)
<_stink_> sad!
<_stink_> local?
<cmaloney> Yeah
<cmaloney> Unfortunately he's the first of the siblings to pass away
<ColonelPanic001> eh?
<_stink_> i had a similiar situation with my Aunt recently
<cmaloney> _stink_: Sorry to hear that.
<_stink_> you know when the weird uncle calls
<_stink_> something is up.
<ColonelPanic001> >\
<ColonelPanic001> :\
<cmaloney> _stink_: Yeah, I know the feeling.
<_stink_> ColonelPanic001: i made a death joke in this channel.
<ColonelPanic001> good
<cmaloney> I get a little twinge every time my mom calls at odd times
<cmaloney> it's either somethinig silly or something bad happened.
<ColonelPanic001> same here, except "calls me at all"
<_stink_> hah
<_stink_> i read that as "calls me Al"
<ColonelPanic001> my sister recently called and left a voicemail saying to call her back (my favorite kind of vm - entirely f'ing useless)
<ColonelPanic001> I also hate when my mom calls me Al, because that isn't my name
<ColonelPanic001> but the last two times my sister has called and insisted on a phone call it's been becasue she's pragnant
<_stink_> do you call her Betty?
<ColonelPanic001> I call my mom, mim
<ColonelPanic001> mom
<ColonelPanic001> not mim
<ColonelPanic001> that also would be odd.
<_stink_> ColonelPanic001: so is she pregnant again?
<ColonelPanic001> yeah. I don't know if that's supposed to be public yet, but none of you nerds know her or anyone I know irl, so whatever
<ColonelPanic001> my family knows, but I don't think she's announced beyond that
<ColonelPanic001> because she is nuts and told us immediately after a positive pregnancy test
<cmaloney> Yeah, you need to let it incubate a bit
 * _stink_ rents skywriter
<cscheib> anyone with any 14.04 servers around who can apt-get update && apt-cache search sysdig real quick?
<cscheib> the package isn't showing up for me, and I know 100% for a fact that it's been there very recently
<cscheib> not sure where to look to see if the package was removed or something.
<cmaloney> It's still showing up for me on my 14.04 desktop
<cmaloney> Let me do an update
<cmaloney> sysdig - system-level exploration and troubleshooting tool
<cmaloney> sysdig-dkms - system-level exploration and troubleshooting tool - kernel source
<cmaloney> still there.
<cscheib> what the f
<cmaloney> You sure it didn't move repos?
<jrwren> cscheib: yes. what of sysdig?
<jrwren> cscheib: its in universe. is universe enabled?
<cmaloney> and usually if a package is removed it leaves some unhelful meta-package
<jrwren> unless its purged?
<cmaloney> "blah blah isn't available but you can kindly go F yourself"
<cmaloney> or something like that.
<cscheib> cmaloney: what upstream source are you using? us.archive?
<cscheib> jrwren: universe is indeed enabled
<cmaloney> one sec.
<cscheib> if I pull up the Packages.bz2 from http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/trusty/universe/binary-i386/ and binary-amd64, I don't see sysdig in there
<cscheib> that may be the wrong file to look at
<cmaloney> https://www.dropbox.com/s/08k9wy40aevao8n/sources.list?dl=0
<cmaloney> That's my sources list
<cscheib> so maybe someone f'ed something up on archive and everyone else's repos haven't pulled yet
<cscheib> you're using us.archive too, hrmmm
<jrwren> cscheib: i was wrong. I looked at xenial. http://packages.ubuntu.com shows no sysdig for trusty.
<cscheib> weird
<jrwren> cscheib: it is in trusty-backports.
<cscheib> ahh... wonder if there was a breaking issue in universe's version
<cmaloney> That makes sense
<jrwren> http://packages.ubuntu.com/trusty-backports/admin/ listed there.
<cmaloney> May not have been in Trusty
<cscheib> I don't have backports enabled on servers, typically
<cscheib> so makes sense.
<cmaloney> http://packages.ubuntu.com/trusty-backports/admin/sysdig
<cmaloney> First mention is Wily. Trusty is in backports
<cscheib> cmaloney: do you have sysdig installed on your desktop?  that seems to make it show up in apt-cache search
<cscheib> cscheib@pvl-gitlab01:~$ apt-cache show sysdig | grep Filename
<cscheib> cscheib@pvl-gitlab01:~$ apt-cache show curl | grep Filename
<cscheib> Filename: pool/main/c/curl/curl_7.35.0-1ubuntu2.6_amd64.deb
<cscheib> just shows with no FIlename
<cscheib> they have to have shifted it some time over the weekend for some reason
<cmaloney> I don't have it installed
<cscheib> urgh
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-07-19
<cmaloney> http://openmetalcast.com/2016/07/18/open-metalcast-episode-133-internet-of-metal/
<cmaloney> Morning and all that.
<_stink_> yo
<rick_h_> party
<cmaloney> heh
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-07-20
<rick_h_> kind of cool, loaded the android N beta only my n6 and n9 and nice speed improvement
<cmaloney> nice!
<rick_h_> talk about easy to turn on, should have done this sooner
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> Still on 6.0.1 on my phone
<jrwren> having a 9yo RULES!  "Lilly, go return your mom's library book."  "OK."  she hops on her bike and returns book at library.
<greg-g> jrwren: I. can't. wait.
<cmaloney> nice!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-07-21
<_stink_> jrwren: please let me know at what age the window closes so i can plan accordingly, thx
<cmaloney> heh
<Scary_Guy> (dumps library book in nearest trashcan)
<_stink_> hah
<greg-g> now I know what kind of kid Scary_Guy was :)
<Scary_Guy> was?
<Scary_Guy> I'm still young at heart (translation, immature as fuck)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-07-22
<jrwren> omg, tmux just blew my mind.
<jrwren> i use one running tmux and connect many windows to it in diff sessions. TIL alt up and down changes the session. Its awesome.
<_stink_> so i should finally switch from gnu screen?
<jrwren> up to you.
<_stink_> inertia is strong.
<cmaloney> _stink_: Yes
<cmaloney> Oh that is awesome
<cmaloney> I didn't know that you could switch sessions like that
<cmaloney> Holy shit
<jrwren> cmaloney: SEE!!!
<jrwren> for once my fat fingers HELPED me
<cmaloney> THough it's not mmalled to alt
<cmaloney> it's [CTRL]-B ( or )
<cmaloney> https://plus.google.com/+CraigMaloney/posts/bvRAVFsCpsU
<jrwren> oh?
<jrwren> somehow i have meta up down left right
<cmaloney> Might be a later release
<jrwren> or byobu settings
<cmaloney> Ah, right, Byobu
<cmaloney> aka that thing I kicked to the curb because tmux defaults were good enough
<jrwren> i like status line
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-07-17
<brousch> jrwren:
<brousch> So spacemonkey is just like the new company on Silicon Valley?
<jrwren> i guess.
<jrwren> but its been around for longer than the show.
<Scary_Guy> I have no clue what you're talking about but I hope it's a Fight Club reference somehow
<Scary_Guy> I really need to catch up on episodes, that show is awesome
<rick_h> morning
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> rick_h: How is the leg?
<rick_h> cmaloney: MRI tomorrow morning. Doc left fingerprints in leg checking it this morning.
<cmaloney> rick_h: Did he at least kiss?
<cmaloney> or pick up the tab? :)
<rick_h> Wheeeee
<cmaloney> Ugh re: MRI tomorrow. Playing the waiting game is never fun
<cmaloney> Hoping for the best for you
<cmaloney> Also: yay on being full-dad. :)
<rick_h> Yea same here. Told the doc need to get back on the bike asap. Hopefully will see how it goes.
<rick_h> Hopefully MRI and I can talk about results quickly
<cmaloney> Yeah, no joke
<notlikethesoup> afternoon
<cmaloney> Howdy
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-07-18
<greg-g> is the only place your shell defined in /etc/passwd? I want to puppetize it and it seems overkill to puppetize that entire file (and fraught with danger upon reinstalls)
<rick_h> greg-g: chsh?
<cmaloney> http://openmetalcast.com/2017/07/17/open-metalcast-episode-158-dont-let-up/
<cmaloney> greg-g / rick_h Yeah, I'd use chsh after the fact.
<cmaloney> that or Ansible has a module for adding a user and setting the shell. Wonder if Puppet has something similar
<cmaloney> agreed: carryinf arround the passwd file is a bad move
<jrwren> greg-g: yes, that is the only place the shell is defined.
<ColonelPanic001> anyone ever use kdialog? I use it in a script to pop up a window with a text area input, then append what I put there into a file
<ColonelPanic001> but, I'd like to ideally also have a textbox (just display text from a file) above or below that, looks like kdialog is just one-at-a-time
<ColonelPanic001> not a big deal, but would be nice, if anyone knows something simple to do something like that. It's not worth me actually writing significant code for (at least not now)
<jrwren> kdialog $(cat file) ?
<jrwren> :)
<ColonelPanic001> well, I tried the dead obvious - just do --textinputbox, and also --textbox <file>
<ColonelPanic001> appears to just take the second one
<ColonelPanic001> not a shock, it's not for building out entire UIs, just quick dialogs
<ColonelPanic001> but figured it was worth the four seconds it took to try it
<_stink_> you'll never get those 4 seconds back
<ColonelPanic001> I know :\
<ColonelPanic001> that's why I came here. Trying things for myself is a waste.
<ColonelPanic001> nah, looks like `yad` might have some promise
<ColonelPanic001> it's just not worth writing this as an actual "real" gui right now. All I do is type into the box, and it dumps it in a file.
<ColonelPanic001> yeah, fwiw, it's a little less than ideal, but good enough
<ColonelPanic001> yad, that is
<ColonelPanic001> all I care is "show the tail of a file, then let me type in the next entry below". this is good enough.
<ColonelPanic001> there. Now that I've wasted an hour on my dumb little script, I can actually start doing work
<jrwren> :)
<ColonelPanic001> I regret this already. My dumb little script was still more intersting than work
<greg-g> jrwren: cmaloney rick_h yeah, chsh, I bet puppet does have something. /me looks more
<jrwren> greg-g: is puppet creating the user?
<greg-g> jrwren: no, this is for my laptop(s), so I do it when I install the OS
<jrwren> wow, hardcore.
<jrwren> its been over 10yrs since I installed any OS on a laptop that I gave a damn about anything setup wise. :p
<jrwren> thanks apple.
<greg-g> "not care" vs "can't care/change" :P
<jrwren> its true.
<jrwren> we all choose what to value and I chose not to value that. :)
<jrwren> it was entirely intentional.
 * greg-g nods
<cmaloney> greg-g: That guy here: have you looked at Ansible for this?
<jrwren> rofl.
<greg-g> cmaloney: no, but only because we use puppet at work, so, I can cargo cult more easily :P
<cmaloney> hey, there's always one
<cmaloney> no worries. Figured there was some inertia to the decision
<cmaloney> If it were me I'd use Ansible, but only because I have the intertia for it
<jrwren> i'd use cloud-config for the same reason :)
<cmaloney> Because why use a toothpick when a shotgun will clean your teeth nicely.
<Scary_Guy> said Kurt :p
<rick_h> Makefile ft
<rick_h> ftw
<cmaloney> rick_h: I'm banning you from Makefiles. ;)
<greg-g> heh
<rick_h> it's how I setup a new laptop
<jrwren> here is my makefile flowchart:  are you building software: NO -> don't use a make file.
<rick_h> git clone xxxx && cd xxxxx && make install install_python
<cmaloney> heh
<rick_h> jrwren: :)
<greg-g> doing this in puppet at least gives me some (beginning of a) useful skill for the future... can't say that for makefiles :P
<Scary_Guy> Compiling from source is great because security.  Binaries are great because I'm too lazy to read through all that code.
<rick_h> it takes 4 git repos to setup a machine, dotfiles, vim files, ssh files, and email files
<jrwren> why not a monorepo with all of that?
<rick_h> because vim is public, and ssh is special and doesn't go on every machine
<rick_h> and not every machine does email work (offlineimap/etc)
<rick_h> so I've got different targets in the makefile to just handle what I want the machine to do
<greg-g> puppet can deal with that in your site.pp :)
<jrwren> why wouldn't ssh go on every machine?
<jrwren> you don't have private keys there, do you?
<Scary_Guy> IDK, maybe it's a resource or extra security thing?  If you don't need it why have it?
<greg-g> I have ssh::x230 and ssh::x200s (my two laptops) and ssh::do1 (digitalocean host) for my .ssh/config's
<Scary_Guy> Also, because unexpected things like this can't happen if the software isn't there in the first place to be exploited http://www.zdnet.com/article/serious-security-flaw-found-in-openssh-puts-private-keys-at-risk/
<jrwren> that is true Scary_Guy
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-07-19
<brousch> No "Good Mornings" today?
<rick_h> not much good unfortunately
<rick_h> trying to figure out how to still do pyohio atm
<_stink_> morning
<jrwren> great morning!
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> rick_h: We'll drive if you want
<cmaloney> rick_h: We have a transport chair as well
<rick_h> cmaloney: my main worry is the walking around there. The area's not greatly hop-along friendly
<rick_h> cmaloney: yea, have to see. Looking into it
<cmaloney> np
<cmaloney> yeah, there's a lot of long distance walking for sure
<jrwren> rick_h: what was/is the verdict?
<rick_h> jrwren: knee destroyed, apt with surgeon in 2 weeks
<jrwren> O_O UGH!
<rick_h> jrwren: so far cancelled the UP trip, chicago and St Lious trip, and hopefully will be back in time for the reserved Disney trip
<jrwren> ick.
<rick_h> pretty much...but hey. 8-12mo from now I'll be a happy camper
<jrwren> yay!
<_stink_> rick_h: dang, good luck!
<_stink_> i'm stlil recovering from severing 5 tendons in my wrist... 3 months later and i'm getting pretty impatient
<_stink_> rick_h: ligaments?
<rick_h> _stink_: yea, ACL MCL both meniscus and a hairline fracture
<rick_h> _stink_: :( on the wrist
<_stink_> dang.  go big or go home
<_stink_> you win though
<rick_h> no, at least I can sit in my chair and use my wrists
<rick_h> mine cut out all my fun parts of life. Yours would effect work side
<_stink_> i typed one handed for 5 weeks
<_stink_> 'typed'
<_stink_> thank you vim
<rick_h> wow
<rick_h> lol
<cmaloney> heh
<greg-g> rick_h _stink_ :( :(
<brousch> rick_h: Crap, man. What happened?
<greg-g> mountain biking, I think
<jrwren> He was trying to teach his son how to pop a wheelie on bike, and he landed wrong.
<jrwren> I hope he didn't scare his son into never trying it.
<rick_h> jrwren: yea, been pushing on that
<rick_h> basically don't bike on a weak knee in flip flops kthx
<rick_h> I really think that's the killer to it, but who knows
<greg-g> :(
<jrwren> oh, flip flops.. yup.. .never.
<jrwren> i used to cringe watching my kid on flip flops and a bike.
<rick_h> yea, what I get for doing the dishes the boy goes "want to ride around the block with me?"
<rick_h> sure, so we hop on and go, chit chat, good ride..."dad I can almost do a wheelie see!"
<rick_h> "close, like this...OUGHREW#@$#@$#"
 * rick_h needs to may clay little stopmotion characters to record the scene lol
<cmaloney> Maybe you could hire that Taiwanese company that does the poser dramatizations
<_stink_> haha
<brousch> Huh, my new year's injury was from a nerf war with my son. Darn kids!
<brousch> rick_h: Let me know if I can help you get around at PyOhio
<rick_h> brousch: lol at Nerf wars. Thanks for the offer.
<brousch> I tripped on a rug while running through the house, fell against a crate, had a very large bruise on my torso for 2 months, luckily didn't rupture an organ
<brousch> Probably got the same, "Um, daddy, are you OK?" that you did
<_stink_> hah
<_stink_> my kids would probably just jump on me
<brousch> "He's down! finish him!"
<_stink_> we're freeee!
<rick_h> lol
<_stink_> thankfully mine were not around when i was hurt
<_stink_> cut by a hockey skate
<_stink_> my own :P
<brousch> You must be flexible!
<rick_h> _stink_: were you holding it wrong again?
<greg-g> holding a hockey skate: first problem :)
<dzho> > on flip flops and a bike
<dzho> or seeing someone in a T-shirt and shorts and flip flops on a motorcycle screaming down the highway and lanesplitting etc
<cmaloney> dzho: Don't get me started on the shorts / flip flops on a motorcycle
<_stink_> yes i get confused by where my foot goes :P
<_stink_> naw, i'm a goalie, and i was trying to stop a puck that i had gone down to stop and was trickling between my feet toward the goal
<_stink_> put trapper hand near feet, sit on hand
<_stink_> puck enters net anyway
<_stink_> blood covers ice
<greg-g> :(
<cmaloney> Oh noes
<rick_h> Wow, I some how read skate as stick originally
<rick_h> But that sounds a bit unpleasant
<_stink_> was prettty weird
<greg-g> uh oh, my 512meg ram digital ocean vps can't serve me my Documents git-annex repo, runs out of memory
<greg-g> git gc also fails (obviously)
<cmaloney> Evening
<cmaloney> greg-g: WTF?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-07-20
<jrwren> that must be why i don't ues git-annex :p
<jrwren> it always sounded like git abuse to me
<greg-g> cmaloney: meh, it has a huge git history, makes sense
<cmaloney> morning
<cmaloney> greg-g: Yeah, I remember trying git-annex for mu books. Really seemed too heavy for the task
<dzho> Wanting to use git-annex is what finally drove me finally to start learning git.
<dzho> Now I'm using git and I still haven't really used git-annex for anything very seriously.
<_stink_> cmaloney: http://www.npr.org/2017/07/18/534577902/can-t-prog-rock-get-any-respect-around-here
<_stink_> saw this and thought of you
<cmaloney> That Yes and Genesis and Rush are in the R&R hall of fame means Prog got a little respect
<cmaloney> but yeah, it's about as welcome as Jam Bands in the music world
<jrwren> are jam bands in R&R hall of fame?
<jrwren> R&R hall of fame sucks anyway. That shouldn't be a factor :p
<cmaloney> eg: if Rolling Stone ever has a kind word to say about The Grateful Dead we'll have to check which universe we're on
<cmaloney> jrwren: It's a barometer. That's about all
<jrwren> Do they love Phish?
<cmaloney> not sure
<cmaloney> I'd doubt it. There's vacuum cleaners involved.
<cmaloney> (note: I think Rolling Stone is a moebius loop of head to asshole)
<jrwren> uh-huh
<jrwren> it has interesting origins, and then it grew into people magazine for music
<cmaloney> It became the game review magazine of music
<cmaloney> where if it wasn't esoteric enough or unkown enough then it was garbabe
<cmaloney> but not too esoteric
<cmaloney> "This album of theremin music is haunting, but it's the third theremin music album I've ever heard so it's been done to death"
<cmaloney> "avoid"
<cmaloney> "This album is done using instruments that the band created themselves. They sound like nothing else I have heard before. But I listened to it three times and now it's been done to death. Avoid."
<jrwren> well, it took a while, but my first code was landed at new job :)
<notlikethesoup> nice
<rick_h> jrwren: woot woot
<cmaloney> jrwren: Awesome
<greg-g> jrwren: deployed?
<jrwren> probably deployed somewhere.
<jrwren> I don't work on websites. This is an embedded system.
<greg-g> oh right
<greg-g> I figured there was some command server that you might have touched
<greg-g> congrats, though :)
<Scary_Guy> rolling stone = pitchfork for boomers
<jrwren> that is pretty insulting to pitchfork.
<Scary_Guy> I like project pitchfork, I hate pitchfork
<Scary_Guy> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUpoSSqlVQo (because Yes got mentioned)
<rick_h> cmaloney: when are you all heading down? Want to ride down in the van? We can play checkers in the back seat against each other :P
<jrwren> YES!!! finally a mech keybaord which works with this mac.
<jrwren> zomg... so happy that mech keyboards are so cheap now.
<cmaloney> rick_h: Haven't thought that far ahead for an actual time. Was waiting to see how your leg was
<rick_h> cmaloney: yea so right now I'm borrowing a wheelchair and think we'll just jfdi it
<cmaloney> just fucking do it it?
<greg-g> atm machine
<greg-g> IT Technology
<greg-g> IRC Chat
<cmaloney> ;)
<cmaloney> sitting at Beaumont for JoDee's eyeball (they're trying to see if she only hemmorhaged or has an anyeurism in her eye
<cmaloney> she coughed hard
<cmaloney> This whole getting old thing is really getting out of hand
<greg-g> man, I need to leave this IRC Chat channel so I don't fall victim to this crap
<cmaloney> ?
<cmaloney> heh
<greg-g> everyone is getting hurt
<cmaloney> come grow old with us
<greg-g> common demoninator: this channel
<cmaloney> JoDee's not in this channel
<greg-g> I turned 35 this year, I feel like it was supposed to be more momentous than it was
<cmaloney> debunked
<greg-g> cmaloney: 1 degree of separation, semi-valid still
<cmaloney> bah
<greg-g> anecdata ftw
<cmaloney> honestly they become less momentous the further you get from 21
<cmaloney> until you get to retirement age
<cmaloney> they just add more baggage to it
<cmaloney> "I'm turning 40 and I still haven't figured this whole thing out"
<cmaloney> "I'm turning 41 and I still haven't figured this whole thing out"
<cmaloney> "I'm turning 42 and I still haven't figured this whole thing out"
<cmaloney> etc. ad nauseum
<greg-g> word
<greg-g> "at some point I was supposed to have answers, right? Not this year either? huh, maybe next..."
<cmaloney> coming up on 46 years of not figuring shit out
<greg-g> until death
<greg-g> when your bday? I know you have everyone else's in some cron job so I should at least know yours :)
<greg-g> ah, found it in gcal
<greg-g> wednesday this year
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> Yeah it's an open secret
<greg-g> thanks g+
<cmaloney> :)
<jrwren> i'm turning 40 and figuring things out.
<jrwren> remember city slickers?  the secret to life?
<cmaloney> Shit, I never saw that movie
<cmaloney> no wonder I don't know the secret to life.
<jrwren> lol
<jrwren> its a funny movie.
<rick_h> oh man that's a classic movie, must see
<jrwren> i agree. i tend to like Billy Crystal
<rick_h> yea, I tend to be more so-so on him, but that one is some of his best stuff
<jrwren> I even like Forget Paris
<rick_h> that and the therapist movie he did are at the top for him imo
<jrwren> haha, when he goes around head butting people?  that was funny
<rick_h> and yes jfdi is just do it
<jrwren> I don't really remember Mr. Saturday Night, but given the cast, I should watch it again.
<cmaloney> Anyone who isn't going to pyOhio want to sign up to review the video after it is published?
<cmaloney> They're looking to get the video up ASAP
<cmaloney> So this would be for making sure that the mic works and other quality-control stuff
<cmaloney> Apparently you can't be your own reviewer. :-l
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-07-21
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h> morning
<shakes808> happy friday all
<brousch> rick_h: Are you staying at the Blackwell?
<rick_h> brousch: yep
<brousch> Me too
<rick_h> awesome, bar meetup!
<cmaloney> Nice!
<cmaloney> We're staying there as well
<cmaloney> \m/
<jrwren> lol... for my second PR at new job, a whopping     +2959, -27    size patch. lol
<rick_h> "Rewrite all the bad stuff I've seen so far"
<rick_h> "So far only looked at the Makefile"
<jrwren> nope.
<jrwren> no bad stuff at all.
<jrwren> no makefiles either.
<jrwren> no javascript.
<jrwren> this job is like a dream come true.
<jrwren> i'm waiting for other shoe to drop
<rick_h> lol
<jrwren> i haven't seen any of the ios or android. Maybe that is where the bodies are burried.
<cmaloney> heh
<brousch> Look for the legacy programs
<jrwren> I'm looking at cloud DB technologies and when it comes to cloud managed DB, does it really matter that postgresql > mysql. AFAICT, all the things I prefer about postgresql have to do with management and underlying tech, but if it is just a service, do I really care?
<jrwren> my thought is... why use RDS when Aurora exists?
<cmaloney> Things I've noticed between PostgreSQL and MySQL tend to be more about transactions and performance
<cmaloney> MySQL InnoDB is not terribly performant and transactions are naiive
<cmaloney> Also, MySQL stored procedures are pretty limited compared with PostgreSQL
<cmaloney> So if you're looking for a dumb datastore and don't care about other PGSQL features then MySQL is fine
<cmaloney> addendum: Wordpress and some other PHP apps are exclusively MySQL so that also is a factor.
<jrwren> right. none of which matter on Aurora
<jrwren> cool.
<cmaloney> In what sense?
<jrwren> aurora is its own thing that happens to use mysql protocol.
<cmaloney> ah
<jrwren> so the perf and transactions aren't mysql
<cmaloney> So it's likely MySQL with an Amazon-derived engine
<jrwren> right
<cmaloney> Ah, then I have NFC how that stacks up
<cmaloney> Would be interested to see perf benchmarks / reliability benchmarks
<cmaloney> But yeah, the engines of MySQL have been a huge sticking point
<cmaloney> MyISAM vs InnoDB specifically
<cmaloney> Want speed? MyISAM. Want anything else that makes a relational database nice? InnoDB
<jrwren> right
<greg-g> jrwren: what is the main language you're writing in there?
<jrwren> Go
<jrwren> greg-g: and so far... I love it... jump to your own conclusions :)
<greg-g> heh, we're starting to use some Go for our docker/k8s stuff
<jrwren> oh, that is interesting. as api clients to docker/k8s servers?
<greg-g> jrwren: (in a meeting but) this is the tool my team is writing in Go: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/source/blubber/
<greg-g> ftr: it's everyone on my team's first Go project, so, take it with a grain of salt code idiom/etc wise :)
<jrwren> seems weird to use go for shell scripting like that :p
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-07-22
<cmaloney> morning
<jrwren> good afternoon
<jrwren> interesting thing about this 34" display. on HDMI with a USBC adapter on MBP I get nice display, but using tbolt mini display port adapter on old mac book air, i only get 30Hz. the mouse is choppy :(
<cmaloney> wow
<cmaloney> You'd think Apple would have that down
<jrwren> well, the MBA is getting old.
<jrwren> early 2014 model
<jrwren> i guess it doesn't have the required DP tech.
<jrwren> it has DP 1.1 and tbolt 1, but you need more datarate than that for 4k (or near 4k)
<cmaloney> unrelated: tehre there is way too much salmon on the Apple site.
<jrwren> oh?
<jrwren> do you mean apple.com?
<jrwren> and do you mean rose gold?
<cmaloney> Yeah
<cmaloney> Ugh
<cmaloney> https://www.apple.com/us-hed/shop
<cmaloney> And this nasty pink color
<jrwren> oh, i see what you mean.
<jrwren> ich
<cmaloney> It's about two steps from Dell
<jrwren> https://annarbor.craigslist.org/msg/6231360642.html any country guitar players?
<jrwren> two steps up or two steps down from Dell. That is the question.
<cmaloney> jrwren: up, for now
<jrwren> found my miniDP to DP cable... MUCH better. 60Hz
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-07-23
<tony-smlr> We are about to go live!  SMLR E242 (7/23/2017) Video:  http://youtu.be/5T-jnlIcUwA
<cmaloney> Good mroning
<_stink_> yo
<jrwren> i realized 1/2 way home that i'm lucky i didn't need medical attn.
<jrwren> is ending health ins. on teh last day of work instead of end of month the norm now? or is this some state of MA or Canonical thing?
<cmaloney> Not sure. Mine ended at the end of the month
<cmaloney> and then the COBRA paperwork came in via a laughing letter
<jrwren> yup./
<jrwren> it is either Canonical not doing the right thing, or it is some State of MA thing.
<jrwren> might be state of MA because they have their own special health care thingy that ACA was based on.
<jrwren> thanks Romney
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-07-16
<cmaloney> Good morning
<_stink_> yo
<widox> morning
<cmaloney> I think I've finished the text for The Medicore Programmer book that I've been writing
<cmaloney> if anyone would like a sneak peek at it LMK
<cmaloney> I still have to edit it before releasing it to the public
<dzho> cmaloney: sure, hit me up with a link or whatever, via pm or fediverse dm or ...
<dzho> and lemme know how you'd like diffs
<cmaloney> it's available here: https://framagit.org/craigmaloney/themediocreprogrammer
<cmaloney> you'll need an account. Once you have that set up PM me with your account name and I'll add you there.
<cmaloney> issues in the repo would be awesome.
<dzho> oh the frama projects are not ones I am opposed to getting accounts on :-)
<dzho> so, will do.
<cmaloney> :)
<dzho> cmaloney: ok, I'm in as 'deejoe'
<cmaloney> Added. Thanks!
<dzho> cmaloney: I'm seeing issues but not any source?
<cmaloney> you currently have guest permissions in a private repo. Does that not give you access to the source?
<cmaloney> Try it now. I gave you reporter access
<dzho> aha, now I see the Repository item in the left-hand sidebar.
<dzho> cmaloney: ... and, clone! Read the intro using http://deejoe.etrumeus.com/update/reading-markdown-files-at-the-console-using-w3m-via-mime.html and so far no glaring problems. Will set aside the next bit for later.
<dzho> feel free to bug me about my progress at any point.
<cmaloney> You can also use pandoc to read the epub / PDF / html files. :)
<dzho> heh
<dzho> maybe I should have given pandoc billing in that link title, but yeah, that's part of what makes it all go
<dzho> I've got another thing, a slightly newer approach but more flexible and more in-keeping with This Modern World Of GUI Web Browsers, I call mdbrowse, in which I feed a file to pandoc, ask it to make an .html file, call xdg-open on that temporary file, and then issue a 'read' as a pause before deleting the temporary file.
<dzho> if I encounter figures, I'll fire that up
<cmaloney> nice
<cmaloney> https://plus.google.com/103416921442200060388/posts/NrrqEeVsouf
<Scary_Guy> saw that on reddit, it works for so many things
<Scary_Guy> I've got friends into graphic design and I think that's where it started making the rounds
<Scary_Guy> the award ribbon for "I survived another meeting that should have been an email" is precious too
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-07-18
<cmaloney> What the hell: https://www.meetup.com/Coffee-House-Coders-Royal-Oak/events/fmmtgnyxkbxb/
<cmaloney> There's four first-timers signed up
<_stink_> partaaaay
<Scary_Guy> maybe one guy had friends and was all like "hey, we should all go to this."  I know I try to do that since it's better to have people you know with you than be completely new and know no one
<cmaloney> Perhaps, but it's a little strange. :)
<jrwren> if anyone runs ISC-BIND in ubuntu: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bind/+bug/1782406
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-07-20
<waldo323> good morning
<cmaloney> Good AM
<Scary_Guy> mornnin'
<Scary_Guy> and goodnight :)
<waldo323> oi that late of a thursday?
<cmaloney> Heh
<greg-g> am a bit tired, yes :)
<cmaloney> Welcome back
<brousch> I have a room with 2 beds at the Blackwell for PyOhio, but no roommate. Do you Detroiters know of anyone looking to split?
<cmaloney> Not at the moment but will keep my ears open
<brousch> Split will be about $206
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-07-21
<doubledev> rick_h_: I am searching through Dice for a job and see that Canonical is hiring ( https://www.dice.com/jobs/detail/Foundations-Software-Engineer-Canonical-USA-Inc-Home-Based%26%2345emea--/10286183/1117402?icid=sr18-1p&q=&l= )   Do you know anything about this position?
<rick_h_> doubledev: yea that'll be on the ubuntu server team under David
<rick_h_> If you've got questions bfeel free to shoot them over via email
<doubledev> rick_h_: It says Home Base - Western Europe; does that mean you can work from home as long as you are in Western Europe?
<rick_h_> Yea, it's probably setup to help provide coverage around the globe/coordinate with current folks on the team
<rick_h_> Doubledev don't ket that stop you applying if you think you're a good fit
<doubledev> rick_h_: Thank you, I will think about it.  It might be a bit over my head though :\
<rick_h_> Understand. The goalposts are pretty high to be sure but never hurts to try as long as you're prepared for anything
<doubledev> haha, nice.
<cmaloney> Good morning
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-07-22
<cmaloney> morninng
<havenstance> mornin cmaloney, well afternoon now lol
<cmaloney> Indeed. We're working through the afternoon and are about to hit well into evening
#ubuntu-us-mi 2019-07-15
<mrgoodcat> need to figure out auto identify
<mrgoodcat> somehow dropped server connection and auto join failed because +r on channel
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Which client are you using?
<mrgoodcat> weechat
<mrgoodcat> i just haven't set up sasl yet
<cmaloney> https://weechat.org/files/doc/stable/weechat_quickstart.en.html
<mrgoodcat> seems to have worked
<cmaloney> You'll also want to update your version of Weechat
<mrgoodcat> wrong nick though
<cmaloney> 1.9.1 is from 2017
<Scary_Guy> I'm on 2.3 though some distros use an older version for whatever reason in their repos.
<cmaloney> Yeah, I moved to the PPA for weechat
<cmaloney> I'm on the 2.5 series
<mrgoodcat> suppose i should same
#ubuntu-us-mi 2019-07-16
<cmaloney> Ahoy
<brousch> pahoihoi
<cmaloney> Um, OK.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2019-07-21
<cmaloney> btw i am on Jami with my fullname (craigmaloney) if anyone wants to reach me
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-07-14
<rick_h> jrwren:  hah keyboard fun
<cmaloney> Morning
<cmaloney> MUG meeting tonight
<rick_h> greg-g:  I like kenisis but wish I could get different keys
<cmaloney> http://mug.org
<cmaloney> Kubernetes
<cmaloney> next month: Jon "maddog" Hall
<rick_h> oooh, k8s k8s k8s all the k8s
<cmaloney> Yeah, should be fun discussion
<cmaloney> Hoping to get some folks out to talk about their setup
<cmaloney> Maybe even someone from a little company called Canonical? :)
<cmaloney> (note: this is not me asking for a whole talk on it unless that's what you want. ;) )
<rick_h> hah, appreciate it but Tuesdays aren't great for me these days. Kid days for me
<cmaloney> No worries. :)
<cmaloney> How are things out your way anyway?
<rick_h> but I should look into putting it on the schedule more for sure.
<rick_h> wheeeeee
<cmaloney> That good, eh?
<rick_h> :-) change is fun stuff
<cmaloney> oh boy
<cmaloney> What are you changing into now? :)
<rick_h> life man life! :)
<rick_h> but not keyboards, I'm with greg-g on kenisis ftw
<rick_h> err kinesis
<cmaloney> Heh
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-07-15
<cmaloney> CHC tonight: https://gettogether.community/events/6330/coffee-house-coders-regular-meeting/
<cmaloney> is it me or is adding local file storate to lxc a real pain in the tuckus?
<cmaloney> s/storate/storage/
<cmaloney> https://jitsi.decafbad.net/CoffeeHouseCodersRoyalOak
