#ubuntu-mobile 2007-10-15
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-mobile.log
<dholbach> good morning
<Mithrandir> lool: what's the status of the new hildon-desktop?
<mjg59> Mithrandir: Not likely to hit gutsy, but it turns out it's not needed
<mjg59> The new marquee stuff should work with the current package - I uploaded a revised hildon-desktop with the config file changes that it and moblin-applets needed
<mjg59> Then uploaded all of them this morning
<mjg59> (Argh, and forgot to commit the changes to hildon-desktop to bzr - I'll do that later on)
* StevenK thinks it might be time to build a new image for his Q1U
<Mithrandir> mjg59: ok.  I saw your upload at an insane hour this morning; thanks a lot for your effort over the weekend.
<Mithrandir> I'm looking at setting up the build infrastructure to pull stuff from the PPAs
<lool> Mithrandir: The status is as I and Bob describe this WE?!
<lool> Mithrandir: Should I recap what happened since thursday?
<Mithrandir> lool: I've mostly seen fragments, so if you have a coherent view, it'd be useful to get, yes.
<lool> Mithrandir: So the plan was that I would update hildon-desktop to a newer upstream release, then I would merge the git tree pointed by Bob, then the patch pointed by Bob (as discussed in our last meeting)
<lool> I updated to a new upstream release matching closely the beginning of the Git tree Bob wanted us to pull, but when I looked more precisely at the tree, it was very hard to merge
<lool> Then I contacted various people to get input on what should be merged from this tree, and when Bob came back we had a long exchange where he summed up the changes (see my mail) and proposed to merge them
<lool> But then Bob also didn't succeed in merging the changes and pointed you at a single changes he still wanted in Gutsy
<lool> So the current status for me is that the bzr tree has to be tested and uploaded for the new upstream version and you should perhaps look into the change Bob pointed at in his last mail
<lool> (I also included the gconf patch from Bill which Bob wanted)
<lool> Hmm so this is how it looks in Xephyr here http://people.dooz.org/~lool/ume-xephyr.png
<lool> Not too nice and many errors and non working apps
<Mithrandir> lool: point.  Can you check if installing hildon-theme-ume-basic helps?  I think it might.
<lool> I have hildon-theme-mobile-basic installed if that's what you meant
<Mithrandir> no, there's a new one from Peter Zhu
<lool> I don't see it yet then; I updated this morning only
<lool> Mithrandir: Can't find it yet
<Mithrandir> lool: http://err.no/tmp/hildon-theme-layout-4_0.8.2-1ubuntu4.tar.bz2 http://err.no/tmp/hildon-theme-layout-4_0.8.2-1ubuntu4.tar.bz2
<lool> Mithrandir: 403
<Mithrandir> lool: fixed
<lool> Grabbed it; you can rm it if you like
<lool> Mithrandir: There's no hildon-theme-ume-basic there and hildon-desktop depends on maemo-launcher which I don't have either
<Mithrandir> there = ?
<Mithrandir> lool: http://err.no/tmp/hildon-theme-ume-basic_4.8.2-1.tar.bz2 was the second URL I meant to send you
<lool> Ok, I thought you pasted the same one twice by mistake
<Mithrandir> yes, I meant to paste two, but I pasted one twice
<lool> Mithrandir: I really need maemo-launcher with the hildon-desktop you handed me
<lool> Mithrandir: With the new hildon-desktop, /usr/bin/hildon-desktop: broken symbolic link to `maemo-invoker'
<Mithrandir> lool: I didn't hand you any hildon-desktop
<lool> Crap
<lool> So the new hildon-desktop needs a new package
<mjg59> Which new hildon-desktop?
<lool> The one in bzr
<mjg59> Oh, right
<mjg59> We don't need it for gutsy
<lool> mjg59: Bob wanted a new upstream release for some bug fixes, but I guess we can go without
<mjg59> I think he's resigned to it being post-gutsy
<mjg59> marquee-lala works with the current one
<Mithrandir>  the current dailies look fine here.
<lool> Mithrandir: How current is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/HildonDesktopManualProcedure?  This is what I followed, but even with your theme there are plenty of display issues and almost no app works
<msa> dare I ask...? gutsy has apparmor patches.. does mobile ubuntu have it? or planned?
<lool> I guess I should use moblin-image-creator instead, this would give me better results?
<Mithrandir> lool: probably not very recent.
<mjg59> We use the same kernel
<lool> Mithrandir: So could you share your test desktop test methods?  Are these chroot based?  Or perhaps qemu/vmware/virtualbox based?  Are you using mic?
<lool> s/test desktop test/desktop test
<lool> I still didn't get the device (Claire asked me whether it arrived this morning, but nothing)
<Mithrandir> lool: I use the daily builds and real devices
<lool> Then I'm out of luck for now; anyone here who still uses Xephyr or virtualization?
<Mithrandir> do you have ubuntu-mobile installed in the chroot?
<ian_brasil> lool: i have updated some of the docs...the html versions are here: http://172.18.216.49/gutsyguide/C/index.html
<lool> Mithrandir: Yes
<ian_brasil> this is on my lap top for now so just accept the google gears and then you can work offline with themine with
<lool> ian_brasil: I can't access it; from home it's idling like it's going to timeout and from my collo server it says From 194.242.112.1 icmp_seq=1 Destination Net Unreachable
<lool> (trying to ping 172.18.216.49)
<lool> From home I can't ping you either
<ian_brasil> ok...i will put them on a world reachable server...give me 5 mins
<lool> Thanks!
<lool> Can't reach it from a third server either (all different locations)
<ian_brasil> lool: http://172.18.216.232/gutsyguide/
<lool> ian_brasil: Same issues with this other IP
<lool> Timeouts from two places, unreachable from a third one
<lool> ian_brasil: Is there a public VCS for the guide?  Perhaps on launchpad?
<ian_brasil> lool: no, there is a launchpad project for the guide but no VCS
<ian_brasil> i will put them on my server outside the network here which should work
<lool> ian_brasil: Thanks; of if it's not too big you could perhaps zip it and use an email?
<ian_brasil> yes, good idea...i will do that first
* ian_brasil back in a second
<agoliveira> Anyone else getting this problem using image-creator: Failed to fetch http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports/pool/universe/m/marquee-plugins/marquee-plugins_0.4_lpia.deb  Size mismatch
<agoliveira> Failed to fetch http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports/pool/universe/u/ume-config-common/ume-config-common_0.7_all.deb  Size mismatch
<lool> agoliveira: Mirror issue?  Bad timing?
<agoliveira> lool: I don't know. Probably something wrong with the package itself? I had the same problem earlier.
<ian_brasil> lool: http://umeguides.net ..sorry for the delay..i have to jump through various hoops to get outside the network here
<agoliveira> ian_brasil: Cool stuff, congrats :)
<ian_brasil> agoliveira: thx
<lool> ian_brasil: Did you install gears on gutsy?
<ian_brasil> i installed the firefox plugin...i tried on the midbrowser but it does not work there (yet?)
<lool> ian_brasil: Just FYI, the "Download Gears" link in the guide itself opens a new tab on the guide instead of the gears website
<lool> ian_brasil: It refuses to install under gutsy amd64 for me, so I wont enjoy that part; would have been cool :)
<lool> ian_brasil: Thanks for the docs; I'll browse them from the web site!
<ian_brasil> ok...thx..i was planning to put it up next week in reality (after doing some debugging)  but cool it nearly works ;)
<lool> ian_brasil: Concerning 2.1: it seems plankton isn't the current theme anymore, umebasic would be it
<ian_brasil> lool: ok
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: Is the wifi on your Q1 working? I can't make it work with the latest daily.
<Mithrandir> agoliveira: yeah, seems fine here.  At least it sees networks.
<agoliveira> I can actually connect to my AP but can't initiate any trafic. Even pinging the AP itself does not work.
<lool> Ah!  With start-hildon it looks nice
<lool> But I can't close the browser hmmm
* agoliveira wonders why now wifi is working...
<lool> Hmm image-creator writes project below /usr
<agoliveira> lool: Are you sure? I just ran it this mornign and it's using ~ as usual
<lool> agoliveira: I ran it as root, and it wrote to /usr/share/pdk/projects
<lool> agoliveira: Perhaps it does differently whe run as end-user?
<agoliveira> lool: Hmmm... in this case it's possible. I've never done this way.
<agoliveira> lool: I aways run it using sudo
<rustyl> morning
<agoliveira> rustyl: 'morning Rusty.
<lool> agoliveira: It's the default value of SDK.init(path); I don't see it being overriden for projects, but it might be for targets
<agoliveira> lool: This looks like some reminscent from the beginning of the project. You should talk to HappyCamp or sodarock (same guy) :)
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-mobile.log
<Inuka> amitk, the issue was the kernel I got through apt-get, something was wrong with it. I downloaded the kernel source and patch from ubuntu and your method is working fine... , thanks for all the help
<lool> ian_brasil: In the Hildonizing section of UME guide, there's PKG_CHECK_MODULES([HILDON] ,...) followed by AC_SUBST(HILDON_CFLAGS) and _LIBS, but the AC_SUBSTs are superfluous as PKG_CHECK_MODULES does this already
<ian_brasil> lool: thx, i will check that out
<lool> ian_brasil: And thanks for the guide, it covers a lot of ground
<Mithrandir> lool: hmm, sure?  my /usr/share/aclocal/pkg.m4 doesn't have AC_SUBST in it.
<Mithrandir> (you could argue it should have, but it doesn't now)
<lool> Mithrandir: I'm pretty sure it's the case, I've done such simplifications in some GNOME modules in the past
<lool> I jsut checked e.g. gnome-system-tools for GST_DEPENDS_CFLAGS and _LIBS, and these aren't AC_SUBSTed manually but are substed by config.status
<lool> (But then I read gdm and gnome-keyring's configures first and they did the AC_SUBSTs  :-P)
<lool> Mithrandir: It's actually AC_ARG_VAR which implies AC_SUBST
<Mithrandir> ah, of course.
<lool> Mithrandir: May I ask how you test your local UME packages before uploading them?
<lool> Mithrandir: Are you adding a private archive to the mic?
<Mithrandir> lool: compile them on the q1 or crown beach
<Mithrandir> it's ~1GHz cpu, with ccache it's not too bad.
<lool> Ah didn't think it was that fast, cool
<Mithrandir> or build the package in a chroot and scp over
<Mithrandir> depends on the size.
<lool> Ok; well I really need a device for tests then
<Mithrandir> it's what I use, because well, nothing is a good substitute for the real device.
<lool> Oh the fsets are still created with lpia
<lool> err with i386 instead of lpia I meant
<ian_brasil> lool: you are correct..it compiles fine without the CFLAGS and _LIBS
<Mithrandir> lool: you can override it manually
<lool> Haha, so I can tell you hildon-desktop is seriously broken
<lool> In bzr
<Mithrandir> good thing we didn't upload it, then?
<lool> Yeah
<Mithrandir> we're getting lpia PPAs sometime after release, once we have those, I can set up the daily builds to pull from that
<lool> Great
<lool> I suppose we will only list ubuntu-mobile's PPA
<Mithrandir> that was the plan, yes.
#ubuntu-mobile 2007-10-16
<vishalrao> hello. is ubuntu-mobile only meant for ultra-mobile devices? any chance of work/support for tablet pc's and their touchscreens and fingerprint readers? i have a new hp pavilion tx1302au and i got wireless and touchscreen working with commandline tinkering. still researching possibilities for the authentec aes1610 fingerprint reader :)
<pwnguin> i think the developers are focused on getting hildon running on umpc
<pwnguin> ive been looking at it for Tablet PCs
<pwnguin> at least what's in gutsy is not impressive
<vishalrao> any place i can help, maybe by installing test software to collect info for developers?
<pwnguin> the wiki has a guide
<pwnguin> for a xephyr install
<pwnguin> vishalrao: also, there's a debian team called FingerForce looking at fingerprint Auth
<vishalrao> yup i have some links, currently that one too :)
<pwnguin> vishalrao: im aiming to get a similar tool into 8.04
<vishalrao> neat
<pwnguin> for a different device
<pwnguin> its already in my ppa, but it requires users to be in the root group to work perfectly at the moment
<vishalrao> nice
<pwnguin> beware, US developers have certain export restrictions regarding fingerprints
<pwnguin> do umpcs have fingerprint auth tools?
<vishalrao> right. im umpcs have auth tools in windows :)
<vishalrao> im *sure* umpcs have...
<pwnguin> you own one?
<pwnguin> i dont see one on the q1u
<vishalrao> the sony ux has one iirc
<vishalrao> no i have a regular hp pavilion tablet pc tx1302au, just got it saturday :)
<pwnguin> have the tablet working?
<vishalrao> yup, tried both ubuntu gutsy rc and opensuse 10.3, both need some tweaking to get sound, wireless working. lot of work to get touchscreen working. now im interested in getting the fingerprint reader working (somehow) :)
<pwnguin> what kind of digitizer does it use?
<pwnguin> wacom?
<vishalrao> some sort of "passive" one, the proc/bus/devices displays it as an "eGalax USB touchscreen"
<vishalrao> its not very good for handwriting, just basic touch is feasible... toshibas are better with their "active" screens i guess...
<pwnguin> my tecra is verra nice
<pwnguin> but the hardware integration isn't there
<pwnguin> i was hoping ubuntu mobile could produce some packages i could steal in a hurry, but they seem to be after a different kind of device
<vishalrao> yup
<vishalrao> really now laptop sales are (have) overtaking desktops, linux distros should try to support touch/finger/wireless as best as possible. i know vendors are not providing much hardware spec support... but some campaigning can help :)
<pwnguin> you'd be surprised what's starting to work these days
<vishalrao> yup, my main requirement was to get wireless working, which it does nicely using ndiswrapper. touch and finger are nice bonuses to have working... the hp tablet has a good price/feature/specs combuination which other laptops couldnt match...
<pwnguin> im quite satisfied with the tecra m7; it's a bit expensive, but it did come with a worthy video card
<vishalrao> what video do you have? mine is "onboard" nvidia geforce go 6150 :) runs vista aero glass fine, and i dont go gaming
<pwnguin> quadro nvs 110M
<vishalrao> nice
<pwnguin> apparently it's around geforce 7300ish
<pwnguin> and a year old
<pwnguin> anyways, this isnt very mobileandembedded-ish
<vishalrao> right
<pwnguin> perhaps #ubuntu-laptop would be a place more suited to discussing the finer points of tablet PC
<vishalrao> umpcs are all the rage these days
<vishalrao> ah, will check that out
<vishalrao> heh, it asks to go to plain #ubuntu for support :) very few people in there
<dholbach> good morning
<Peter_u2> Mithrandir, hello
<Mithrandir> Peter_u2: hi?
<Peter_u2> One strange gtkrc issue I don't workout. 
<Peter_u2> I add one style and setting *.wm_pm_tb_prev_bn to use that style. Then in moblin-media app, glade file use wm_pm_tb_prev_bn as id of a GtkButton. Know possible reasons?
<Peter_u2> The style and its usage is in gtkrc.maemo_af_desktop like what we did with marquee buttons.
<Peter_u2> Just can't work.
<Mithrandir> I don't know much about how GTK theming works, sorry.
<Mithrandir> maybe kwwii knows?
<Peter_u2> kwwii, he might still not wake, I guess
<Peter_u2> kwwii, you wakeup and lol?
<Peter_u2> Mithrandir, thanks anyway
<Peter_u2> Anybody here knows the gtkrc issue?
<kwwii> Peter_u2: now I am
<Peter_u2> kwwii, lol. Very happy you are here. 
<Peter_u2> You saw my issue description above?
<kwwii> Peter_u2: to be honest gtkrc stuff is pretty much magic to me too
<kwwii> I have no idea
<kwwii> sorry
<Peter_u2> kwwii, no need say sorry. no problem. I have sent this to mailing list to see if anyone can help. 
<kwwii> cool
<Peter_u2> kwwii, once I get that done. I will update ume-basic theme as well. 
<kwwii> excellent
<Peter_u2> you know when is it time to add ume-basic to gutsy repository?
<Mithrandir> Peter_u2: it's not going in.  Too late.
<Mithrandir> we'll add it in hardy
<Peter_u2> Mithrandir, get it. That's fine. 
<Peter_u2> Mithrandir, neither not for libtelepathy, right? I didn't see upgrade for libtp neither.
<Mithrandir> yeah, sorry, I didn't get around to getting it in.
<Peter_u2> Mithrandir, no problem. what's the quickest possible time to begin hardy circle?
<Peter_u2> s/circle/cycle
<Mithrandir> Peter_u2: the next release usually opens sometime during the UDS, between one and two weeks after release.
<Peter_u2> When is gutsy released? I assume currently it's just code freeze stage
<pwnguin> the schedule suggests the 18th
<Peter_u2> pwnguin, good. Thanks.
<Peter_u2> where can I see such schedule info? A link is welcome
<pwnguin> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyReleaseSchedule
<Peter_u2> cool, pwnguin. I appreciate it. 
<pwnguin> np
<pwnguin> does the lpia arch work well in gutsy?
<pwnguin> ive set up a chroot and im underwhelmed so far
<lool> pwnguin: What's the problem?
<pwnguin> well right now
<pwnguin> start-hildon tanks on a missing mas
<pwnguin> whatever that is
<lool> Yes, but it's not packaged I think
<lool> You're not supposed to use start-hildon
<pwnguin> ah well
* pwnguin just follows the wiki
<lool> I came across the same error yesterday (and it's harmless)
<pwnguin> and when it was working, the whole thing felt... not nearly as finished as the screenshots i'd seen. i donno if theres some theme transition or what
<lool> pwnguin: Note that the wiki mentions custom scripts, not the one you saw here
<pwnguin> perhaps its just that chroot doesn't cut it anymore
<lool> pwnguin: There's a ume-xephyr-smthg script in a config package which you get when you build a fset
<lool> pwnguin: I think you should setup a chroot via mic instead of manually
<pwnguin> i think mic crashes on me
<lool> pwnguin: I started the same way you did, and the results were awful
<lool> pwnguin: What's the crash?
<pwnguin> it locks up trying to add an fset
<lool> pwnguin: I got this in my chroot http://people.dooz.org/~lool/ume-xephyr.png but it was nearly as expected when using mic
<pwnguin> see, that looks nice
<pwnguin> i just got a "zomg you dont have flash"
<lool> pwnguin: If you start it from a terminal you should see what it's running
<lool> pwnguin: Perhaps your choice of packages wasn't exactly the same then
<pwnguin> perhaps
<lool> I simply installed ubuntu-mobile to get this
<pwnguin> huh
<pwnguin> i wonder what i installed
<pwnguin> because it wasnt ubuntu-mobile
<pwnguin> maybe i just grabbed hildon-desktop thinking it was the equiv of ubuntu-desktop
<lool> hildon-desktop is just an application handling the hildon desktop; it's not a meta-package pulling everything
<lool> Might be the source of the confusion
<pwnguin> well, that didnt exactly fix it =/
<lool> pwnguin: I really recommend you try from the fset, making it work in a chroot means more manual work to repeat for you
<pwnguin> oh, it just takes time to start =/
<pwnguin> its not like i actually have a umpc
<lool> Here neither :)
<pwnguin> man, theres' gotta be some insane dbus problem or something causing this huge lag
<pwnguin> ** (gecko:26146): WARNING **: could not start: org.moblin.media: dbus-launch failed to autolaunch D-Bus session: EOF in dbus-launch reading address from bus daemon
<pwnguin> probably because of the chroot
<lool> pwnguin: You did start dbus in the chroot?
<pwnguin> i thought so
<pwnguin> complains about NetworkManager and system-tools-backends
<pwnguin> that's on a restart
<pwnguin> if i just start it, nothing bad happens...
* agoliveira got rid of the "size mismatch" error on image-builder by chroot into a target and apt-get clean. Looks like the problem was a corrupted cache
<agoliveira> HappyCamp, sodarock, ping me when you arrive, please.
<agoliveira> The package libgl1-mesa-dri is not installed when a Q1 fsets is selected. Is there any specific reason?
<StevenK> I thought Mesa wasn't built on lpia
<StevenK> If I recall
<Mithrandir> StevenK: it is now, at least.
<agoliveira> StevenK: Well, it is :) I didn't have direct redering on the Q1 because i915_dri.so was missing. I installed it manually and it's fine now.
<agoliveira> (by manually I mean installing libgl1-mesa-dri)
* agoliveira was scared how poor the games were running for a moment...
* agoliveira is going to grab a coffee...
<StevenK> We so need to hack stylus gestures into frozen bubble
<StevenK> That would *rock*
<lool> Is there a way to calibrate the touch screen?
<lool> (on the Q1)
<agoliveira> lool: I don't know if it actually works but in the control panel there's a utility that does it.
<lool> I'll try that in a breeze, my manual build doesn't have the control panel, let's see the dailies
<lool> agoliveira: (thanks!)
<agoliveira> lool: The daily (at least from yesterday) does not have either. You need to install a package... let me see...
<lool> Does the daily have SSH?
<agoliveira> lool: No.
<lool> agoliveira: BTW wifi worked fine here! :)
<lool> agoliveira: So I guess you mount the .img or the USB key and chroot + install the package in there?
<agoliveira> lool: Here is working well too. I don't know what happened yesterday.
<agoliveira> lool: No, I star the network and apt-get.
<agoliveira> I just installed a image-creator image with the samsung-full-mobile-stack and it has the control-panel working.
<agoliveira> (and the wifi works better too)
<lool> agoliveira: Thanks for the tips
<agoliveira> lool: My pleasure
<lool> Did you upgrade the BIOS?
<lool> Or rather, should i?
<agoliveira> lool: No. I didn't.
<agoliveira> I don't know either :)
<lool> Do you know on what the installer is based?  Is this some preseeded d-i or is it a kind of scripted ubiquity copying the casper live tree?
<agoliveira> lool: I beg your pardon?
<cwong1> Mithrandir: ping
<lool> agoliveira: The "Install" flavor of the .img: do you know which software is used to do the installation?  Is it the same software as the alternate install CD (d-i based) or the one of the live CD (casper / ubiquity based)?
<lool> agoliveira: Indeed, wifi is better with the daily build
<agoliveira> lool: It's just a script that does the instalation. Nothing fancy.
<lool> agoliveira: Ok
<lool> agoliveira: So it's based on the live FS on the USB key which is being cped; thanks
<lool> Groumpf, screensaver also kicks in when one doesn't move the mouse on the daily build
<agoliveira> lool: Never took a closer look but makes sense.
<lool> Crap, panel didn't come up and WM died
<lool> Or something died
<lool> Arf, Ctrl Alt Backspace to the rescue
<lool> agoliveira: I don't get the Control Panel unfortunately; it writes loading on the right top corner, then I see a small window part on the top left, and that's all :-/
<agoliveira> lool: On the daily yu have to install something... I don't recall what it is right now but using the image-builder I get it right from beginning
<cwong1> agoliveira: do you know anything about the Acrobat reader for gusty?
<agoliveira> cwong1: Acrobat reader is commercial, I don't know the status in this case but you can use evince.
<lool> Pff can't get focus in the terminal
<lool> Let's find a second keyboard
<cwong1> agoliveira: I have tried evince and it works fine. Does Mithrandir know more about this?
<agoliveira> cwong1: Very lkikely
<cwong1> agoliveira: tx, I will contact him. What timezone is he in?
<agoliveira> cwong1: Good question but I guess is GMT +5
<cwong1> tx
<sodarock> agoliveira: what's up?
<agoliveira> sodarock: Hello there. Sorry but now I forgot :) Shouldn't be anything important...
<sodarock> okay :)
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-mobile.log
<Mithrandir> cwong1: don't ask to ask, just ask your question and I'll respond when I'm around.
<cwong1> Mithrandir: Do you know that status on Acrobat Reader?
<cwong1> s/that/the/
<Mithrandir> cwong1: I have a local package which seems to work.
<cwong1> Mithrandir: Is it the same as the one that you can download from Adobe site?
<Mithrandir> yes
<cwong1> Mithrandir: Does it work for you in Firefox on Gusty?
<Mithrandir> haven't tried.
<cwong1> I tired it and it didn't work for me.
<cwong1> Will this package be available in gusty for download?
<Mithrandir> no
<Mithrandir> gutsy is closed for further uploads, and additionally adobe reader doesn't come with a redistribution licence.
<agoliveira> cwong1: For quite some time I don't feel the need for Acrobat reader as evince is working quite well and it's smaller, quicker and free :)
<cwong1> is evince an opensource project?
<agoliveira> cwong1: Unless it has changed since last time I messed with the sources, yes :)
<cwong1> agoliveira: is there any plan on hildonize Evince?
<agoliveira> cwong1: It's done already (though I didn't test it lately to tell you the truth...)
* agoliveira is firing up the Q1
<cwong1> agoliveira: I tried it and it wasn't.
<agoliveira> cwong1: Did you try the lpia build?
<cwong1> agoliveira: I just did.  The menu is not hildonize.
<agoliveira> cwong1: Crap... let me check
<cwong1> agoliveira:  The version number is 2.20.0.
<agoliveira> cwong1: 2.20.0-3?
<agoliveira> I'm checking the sources and the patch is there. Let me check the binary... hold on
<cwong1> agoliveira: mine is 2.20.0
<cwong1> agoliveira: from the about box
<agoliveira> The problem is that the latest binary available from ports.ubuntu.com is 2.20.0-1 (don't know why)
<cwong1> agoliveira: how do i get the 2.20.0-3 then?
<agoliveira> cwong1: apt-get source evince and build in a lpia chroot.
<cwong1> agoliveira: will this be fix in gusty?
<agoliveira> cwong1: I don't think so.
<cwong1> agoliveira: apt-get source evince didn't find the package
<agoliveira> cwong1: Check you sources.list. I just did it.
<cwong1> agoliveira: my sources.list has "deb http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports gutsy main"
<agoliveira> ports don't have sources. Do it from your normal gutsy install or add a gutsy source linux there
<cwong1> ok.  tx
<Mithrandir> agoliveira: because hildon's not in main yet, and evince is, so it can't build on lpia until hildon is in main
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: Oh... understood. Thanks for the explanation.
<agoliveira> cwong1: So you will have to do build yourself but should be pretty straightforward
<cwong1> agoliveira: got it
<agoliveira> cwong1: Cool.
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-mobile.log
<Inuka> robr, ping
<robr> Inuka: yes?
<Inuka> robr, does the current kernel support lpia?
<robr> yes
<Inuka> what is it called when I specify the architechture at compile time? (lpia?)
<robr> yes, in the sense we compile it with lpia optimizations...the architecture passed into the kernel makefile is still i386
<Mithrandir> cwong1: I repackaged it into a .deb
<Inuka> robr, oh ok so I do not need specify any special options. it is already in the rules?
<robr> Inuka: if you're building it in an lpia build root (i.e. image-creator lpia project) then that's correct, as far as i know
<cwong1> Mithrandir: Can you send me the instr. on how to do that or put the image somewhere that I can try?
<Inuka> rob, where you able to get x to start after enableing c4, my x windows keeps on restarting in a loop.
<Inuka> rob, I am in the process of recompiling a new kernel I will give it a shot with that 
<Inuka> rob, if I boot to the terminal the system is not stable though...  
<Inuka> rob, left usb drive and instructions on your desk
#ubuntu-mobile 2007-10-17
<bfiller> lool: ping
<the_fish> lol
<Ward1983> i think that's a timeout
<Ward1983> :p
<smagoun> Ward1983: If you do make any progress, please let us know. Ubuntu Mobile on other platforms like ARM is a frequent query
<Ward1983> smagoun, sure i will if things work out
<lool> bfiller: pong
<bfiller> lool: I built the hildon-desktop from bzr and tried it with the latest stuff from moblin. Seemed to have some problems. Was wondering if you have tested this at all..
<Ward1983> :-)
<mfrey> HappyCamp: ping
<HappyCamp> mfrey, 
<mfrey> HappyCamp: have you had any luck getting the bootsplash to work on a menlow device?
<HappyCamp> I don't think I have tried that, rob_moblin may know more.
<HappyCamp> I am not quite sure what you mean by bootsplash mfrey ?
<mfrey> I mean usplash
<mfrey> sorry
<mfrey> the graphical boot progress
<robr_> and that works
<robr_> usplash works on a menlow
<mfrey> I have never seen it work -- is there something special
<mfrey> I have a crown beach
<robr_> at least with the kernel we have on moblin.org, i haven't tried the ubuntu kernel in a while
<mfrey> I am using the ubuntu kernel
<mfrey> Is there something needed in the kernel for this to work
<HappyCamp> mfrey, for one thing, it will only work on an installed image.
<HappyCamp> Will not work on LiveUSB.
<robr_> mfrey: i remember it was broken before and a bug was filed, i thought it was fixed...i'm having trouble remembering the root cause
<mfrey> robr_: I think it was the VESA fb driver was not enabled -- which it now is
<robr_> HappyCamp is correct, it should only work when booting off the hard disk with the installed image, it's disabled in the usb live image
<mfrey> I am using only an install image
<robr_> sounds like it's broken then with the ubuntu kernel :-(
<mfrey> Any suggestions where I might look -- I would like to fix it
<robr_> usplash is called in the initramfs, i'd start there ...
<robr_> if i remember correctly from the discussion (maybe amitk could rember better), usplash shouldn't be using the kernel FB driver, it should be using it's own libvga calls
<robr_> i was under the impression that usplash's FB interface was broken 
<mfrey> ok -- so maybee the libvga stuff is missing
<amitk> mfrey: I have a working usplash on my crownbeach
<mfrey> amitk: Please tell me the magic
<amitk> mfrey: Just installed the image created by image-creator
<mfrey> amitk: me too and no usplash
<amitk> mfrey: what kernel are you using?
<mfrey> amitk: the ubuntu kernel not moblin
<amitk> mfrey: I am updating my install now.. be back with the results
<mfrey> amitk: thanks
<amitk> HappyCamp: http://www.moblin.org/apt/pool/main/g/galculator/galculator_1.2.5.2-2moblin2_lpia.deb  404 Not Found
<HappyCamp> amitk, apt-get update?
<amitk> HappyCamp: done it several times on the crownbeach... get the same error when trying to create a new target in image-creator
<HappyCamp> amitk, rustyl has been making changes to galculator like crazy this morning.
<agoliveira> HappyCamp: BTW, I did receive an email about galculator not being built on some internal intel machine. I wonder that's because my email is on the changelog?
<HappyCamp> agoliveira, yeah, we fixed that :)
<HappyCamp> amitk, current version is galculator_1.2.5.2-2moblin3_lpia.deb
<HappyCamp> http://www.moblin.org/build-results/projects/galculator/lpia/
<amitk> lets try again
<HappyCamp> http://www.moblin.org/apt/pool/main/g/galculator/
<agoliveira> HappyCamp: Cool. I just found that scary :)
<agoliveira> Hmmm... geoclue actually works :)
<amitk> HappyCamp: seems to be fixed now. I must've hit the repo at a unfortunate time
<ian_brasil> agoliveira: cool, you are using geoclue...i think it rocks
<agoliveira> ian_brasil: Just testing the bits I can for now. I wonder if I could make it work with a GPS module... I think I'm going to buy one.
<ian_brasil> it relies on gpsd so i imagine so
<ian_brasil> i think remember somewhere reading that gps is going to be built into the chip on MID...you know more about this?
 * ian_brasil thinks this might have been a dream though
<agoliveira> ian_brasil: I vaguely recall something of the sorts but also don't know for sure.
<ian_brasil> it is working in software i think...it gets hard to remember whether you read something somewhere or just thought about it somewhere
<agoliveira> Maybe this one: http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/17/nokia-n810-gets-official/ :)
<agoliveira> $479 ouch...
<ian_brasil> that must have been it then!
 * ian_brasil was worried he was smoking too much crack
 * agoliveira wonders if our Nokia friends can get one or two for a nice low price :)
<amitk> agoliveira: I am guessing that some might be available in the developer program, but it is just a guess.
<Mithrandir> ooh, shiny.  I need to get somebody to get me one of those. :-)
<amitk> Mithrandir: why does the menlow image created by image-creator still contain linux-image-lpiacompat?
<HappyCamp> Mithrandir, anybody else, is Nautilus the search in Gutsy?  In top Nautilus is taking up 20% of my processor time.
<smagoun> amitk: It's an fset bug; HappyCamp has a patch
<amitk> cool
<Mithrandir> amitk: I don't know, it shouldn't be.
<Mithrandir> HappyCamp: no idea, it doesn't for me
<HappyCamp> :(  I am doing a big copy of files, and Nautilus is taking up all the processor time.  So I thought maybe it was the search feature.
<HappyCamp> Though I thought it was some kind of desktop manager or something.
<smagoun> Nautilus is the file manager, isn't it? trackerd is the search-tool-from-hell
<HappyCamp> smagoun, Mithrandir amitk I have committed the change the gets rid of linux-ume from menlow fset.
 * agoliveira thinks trackerd is evil
<HappyCamp> You can get it via git at Moblin.org
<HappyCamp> agoliveira, +1
<smagoun> HappyCamp: thanks much, that's a big help for us
<HappyCamp> smagoun, hopefully I did it correctly :)
<amitk> agoliveira: http://www.nseries.com/index.html#l=products,n810 if you want to see it in action
<smagoun> HappyCamp: that's all I did, and it WFM
<amitk> mfrey: confirmed that usplash not working. It was working before because of the moblin kernel
<mfrey> amitk: ok -- that is what I thought
<mfrey> amitk: I looked at the kernel config and did not see anything obvious
<agoliveira> "This device is not avaiable in your country"... let me see, a high tech device that I can't buy here in Brazil... tell me something new.
<smagoun> hey, it says the same thing for the USA
<smagoun> so you're in good company :)
<agoliveira> smagoun: In your case it's temporary as the device is not for sale yet (or not in stores at least).
<Ward1983> is there some sort of handwriting recognition in ubuntu-mobile?
<Mithrandir> Ward1983: not yet
<Ward1983> Mithrandir, maybe cellwriter can be interesting then
<Ward1983> Mithrandir, works great with my wacom tablet
<ian_brasil> seems like its using a gecko based browser...no more opera !
<agoliveira> ian_brasil: I was thiking about the same...
<guardian> Ward1983: my company develops handwriting recognition technology
<amitk> ian_brasil: I can confirm that
<Ward1983> guardian, nice, anything for linux?
<guardian> sure
<Ward1983> guardian, closed source, and not free i presume?
<guardian> the main problem is somehow the lack of a generalized host for input methods
<guardian> you presume well :(
<guardian> i can't do much about this
<Ward1983> guardian, i know i'm not blaming you
<guardian> and about the plugin host, there is scim, uim, xim, hildon input method
<Mithrandir> guardian: hildon input method should fix that bit, I presume?
<guardian> well not really at some point
<Mithrandir> well, so there's not just one, but an array of them
<agoliveira> amitk: I rather buy a device for a good price than get one in a developper's program. This way I don't feel obligated to develop software for it as my time is already short enough...
<guardian> because hildon input method is a bridge to gtkim
<guardian> so the application has to be gtk based, or wrapped by gtk
<guardian> which is not the case for the moblin's browser for instance as far as i remember
<guardian> but i did not build an image for weeks
<amitk> true
<ian_brasil> agoliveira: you are not obliged to develop software just make a donation to an open source foundation of your choice
<agoliveira> ian_brasil: In that case, bring me one :)
<guardian> Ward1983: i'm frustrated because it's fucking working well :) i have so much ndas on the back
<ian_brasil> and obviously make some noise about the program, the device etc
<Ward1983> guardian, if your company sells it, then it better be good! lol
<guardian> this afternoon at work we talked about general chat about handwriting recognition technology on the internet and it came out it's ok to tell someone's working on it out there :D
<Ward1983> working on?
<guardian> well the technology is ready and integrated in many places
<guardian> now it's just a matter of gui and writing a plugin to scim or xim or else
<guardian> hildon has been done
<Ward1983> guardian, i googled it, i did not know about hildon
<Ward1983> guardian, looks good
<Ward1983> great that its open now
<guardian> the hildon input method framework ?
 * agoliveira is going to pick up the dog at the vet and torture the neighbors AKA pratice saxophone.
<Ward1983> guardian, yes
<guardian> well it's always good new stuff appears
<guardian> i'm not sure it changes much things
<Ward1983> guardian, still its nice
<guardian> sure
<mfrey> amitk: Mithrandir guys I noticed that the usplash deb is not installed by default -- could this be part of the problem?
<Inuka> robr, ping...
<mawhalen> ToddBrandt: you on line?  Can you call my work phone?
#ubuntu-mobile 2007-10-18
<jayakumar2> hi. here's my newbie feedback on m-i-c. all the initial steps work very cleanly. i am very impressed. the final step, ie: image-creator -c create-live-usb says a bunch of stuff and then sticks on mkfs.vfat which is where it is right now. i think it's doing something since i see that /tmp/pdk-$$ is growing
<dholbach> good morning
<apple2> probably many people have already asked but what about the nokia 770/n800?
<amitk> apple2: what about the nokias?
<agoliveira> apple2: Use the FAQ, Luke... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/FAQ
<apple2> I have read the FAQ lots of times?
<apple2> There has been some thoughts that it will run on armel as well
<lool> apple2: There's no ongoing effort to do this in Ubuntu; you're welcome to start such efforts if an armel Ubuntu is what you're looking for
<apple2> ok
<Mithrandir> we'd be quite happy if somebody were to start working on it, but we just don't have the resources at the moment
<apple2> For now I'm workin on debian sid for nokia 770
<apple2> and its getting ok
<lool> apple2: There are efforts for Debian though
<apple2> but ubuntu sounds better
<apple2> porting debian is not difficult 
<apple2> for now i have working apt
<apple2> with lots of packages
<apple2> an dx server
<apple2> with touch
<apple2> X server*
<apple2> and when is ubuntu mobile supposed to get out?
<suihkulokki> apple2: I'm working the debian/armel port (and running it on n800)
<suihkulokki> what exactly do you need/want/do ?
<apple2> for now I'm just experimenting
<apple2> are you using real X
<apple2> or xomap
<suihkulokki> xomap
<apple2> me too
<apple2> and what about wifi manager?
<suihkulokki> apple2: "works" with command line stuff - ifconfig wlan0 up, iwconfig wlan essid "myessid", dhclient
<suihkulokki> network-manager seems unhappy..
<Mithrandir> apple2: release date> we're looking at doing a full release with 8.04, so April.
<ian_brasil> agoliveira: here you go https://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/1192708879.html ..you will need a maemo account
<apple2> so we'll have to wait
<ian_brasil> there are 500 discount codes  to buy an N810 for for 99â¬
<ian_brasil> there is a lot of mobile news today it seems with this announcement too http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/17/apple-planning-iphone-sdk-for-february/
<apple2> is n810 for sale already?
<agoliveira> ian_brasil: Cool. I'll check it out right now.
<ian_brasil> apple2: i think it depends where you live i think
<amitk> apple2: not until Nov
<apple2> hope n800 gets cheaper :)
<agoliveira> ian_brasil: Weird... I do have an account there but I can seem to be able to login...
<amitk> apple2: it already is ~100eur cheaper in some shops
<ian_brasil> agoliveira: it took me 4/5 tries ...the first linux tablets are becoming collectors items especially the 770 ...get one if you can i reckon
<agoliveira> ian_brasil: I already have a 770 almost since they were released.
<apple2> I have a 770 and I don't think there is much of a revolution until now
<ian_brasil> agoliveira: ume running on my 770 would be awesome ..we just need someone to open up the wlan and power management
<agoliveira> ian_brasil: Same old, same old... :)
<ian_brasil> agoliveira: yes, point taken
 * agoliveira just can't login into maemo.org
<lool> ian_brasil: I noticed that you have a developer focus in some parts of the umeguide; I think it would make sense to hint at hildon-audit which sounds like a good QA tool for a developer
<ian_brasil> i had a wrong password which was my problem
<ian_brasil> and there are lots of people complaining on #maemo so looks like there is some site problem
<ian_brasil> lool: i have that on my ToDo list :)
<lool> ian_brasil: Personally I witnessed that the password (even when incorrect) is sent multiple times in a row; I suspect the midguard integration to be the culprit
<lool> And when the password is incorrect, this prevent retrying and doesn't display any error message (here), but on reload and after entering the proper one twice, it works
<lool> ian_brasil: Are you in a position to fix the "submit" button on the profile page?
<ian_brasil> lool: no, i am only a monkey not an organ grinder ;)
<mfrey> Mithrandir: ping
<Ward1983> is ubuntu-mobile out now?
<Mithrandir> mfrey: hi?
<mfrey> Mithrandir: I sent an email to the list but while I have you -- I found that the reason the usplash does not work for the Menlow builds is that we are missing the usplash packes
<Mithrandir> mfrey: ok, but there's nothing to be done about that, Gutsy is released.
<agoliveira> Ward1983: Not as a release. The project is ongoing as you can see. The target for the first release is with Ubuntu 8.04.
<mfrey> Mithrandir: ok but moving forward -- what is the procedure now that Gutsy is released
<amitk> Mithrandir: not missing packages in the repo, missing packages in the fset
<mfrey> amitk: correct 
<Mithrandir> amitk: still nothing to be done about that.
<Mithrandir> mfrey: once we have PPAs for lpia, we can upload a new ubuntu-mobile metapackage there and include usplash in the ubuntu-mobile package.
<amitk> Mithrandir: nothing to be done in Gutsy, true, but I think mfrey is asking it to be fixed in image-creator. I am assuming they are running image-creator from git. mfrey?
<Ward1983> agoliveira, and if i want to fiddle around with it in a few weeks or so, can i allready test it?
<Ward1983> agoliveira, and if yes, how?
<mfrey> amitk: correct -- that is how we generate nightly builds for our customer
<agoliveira> Ward1983: Of course. Take a look here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/
<mfrey> amitk: maybe this is a question for HappyCamp 
<amitk> mfrey: yes
<agoliveira> HappyCamp A.K.A sodarock
<agoliveira> (just in case he wasn't bliped :) )
<Ward1983> agoliveira, i did, and i just did again to make sure, but i can't find anything about how to test it
<agoliveira> Ward1983: Install it on a chroot or device (like the Samsung Q1 Ultra) and start to play with it. What else do you want?
<Ward1983> agoliveira, i want to know HOW to download it, where, i can't find it on the wiki
<ian_brasil> Ward1983: you can use dogtail on the UI, you can also rum autotest on the kernel
<agoliveira> Ward1983: Have you seem the links " Installing UME test environment *"?
<agoliveira> not to mention teh UME Guide, etc
<Ward1983> agoliveira, i thought that was about creating a test environment on a regular PC to program for ubuntu-mobile ?
<ian_brasil> Ward1983: you could look on here http://umeguides.net/ as agoliveira mentioned
<agoliveira> Ward1983: I don't understand what's your doubt. As I said above and it's on the docs, you can install the environment on your PC or in a device directly. From there you can play with it, install applications, hack into it, etc
<Ward1983> ian_brasil, i didnt realist the isntallinfo would be there, but i now know
<Ward1983> agoliveira, i know now, which is why i asked, because i didnt know
<Ward1983> agoliveira, ian_brasil thanx for the info!
<agoliveira> Ward1983: No problem.
<ian_brasil> Ward1983: OK...happy hacking !
<davidm> Just about time to start the meeting
<bspencer_> good mornin' y'all.
<Mithrandir> davidm: do you want to do it this week?
<mfrey> good afternoon
 * lool suspects Intel folks to schedule the join in their chat clients
<davidm> Mithrandir, sure
<davidm> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 17:01. The chair is davidm.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<agoliveira> bspencer:'mornign Bob
<mawhalen> good morning
<Don_Johnson> Good Morning
<amitk> evening
<davidm> good morning, I'm grabbing the list from last week, one moment
<agoliveira> mawhalen: Good morning Intel Happy People!
<robr2> good morning
<cwong1> good morning
<Mithrandir> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/Meeting/20071018 is today's agenda.  I think we should have a call for extra agenda items as the first item. :-)
<davidm> You can update the meeting agenda at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/Meeting/20071018
<davidm> Yes, does anyone have extra agenda items?  If so please update the page.
<davidm> While we leave time for that to happen shall we address the Action items from last week?
<Mithrandir> sure, it seems like I'm first out there.
<Mithrandir> I've requested a download area, but I just recently did that, and I suspect IS have had their hands full with the release
<davidm> TOPIC Open Action items
<Mithrandir> you need the []-s around
<Mithrandir> so I'll follow up on that next week when the world has calmed down a bit
<davidm> [TOPIC] Open Action items from last week
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Action items from last week 
<davidm> private builds: tfheen to get download area for proprietary builds set up. Is still open.
<lool> Next in turn is me; well update didn't go terribly well as the new upstream releases brought many many changes and I had no proper test environment
<bspencer_> lool started pulling patches from our 0.0.43 hildon-desktop git.   In the end Intel wasn't able to verify the new changes on the ubuntu branch of hildon-desktop so we decided to stick with what was there and not risk the upgrade.
<Mithrandir> davidm: give me an action item again so it doesn't fall off the agenda?
<lool> I do have proper test environments now and should look at the current issues with hildon-desktop this coming week
<bspencer_> no fault of lool.  Intel was late in providing the changes, etc.  
<davidm> Yes, [Action] private builds: tfheen to get download area for proprietary builds set up.
<bspencer_> so the update to hildon-desktop comes in the next gutsy update
<davidm> [Action] private builds: tfheen to get download area for proprietary builds set up.
<Mithrandir> I think you need to do [ACTION] at the start of the line
<MootBot> ACTION received:  private builds: tfheen to get download area for proprietary builds set up. 
<bspencer_> lool, thanks for your help.
<lool> haha Mithrandir :)
<lool> bspencer_: Thanks to you too; I think we both tried equally hard and were both very confused
<bspencer_> mjg59, did update hildon-desktop with some small changes at the last minute to get the brightness and volume controls into statusbar.conf
<davidm> So is the action lool will look at the current issues with hildon-desktop this coming week?
<Mithrandir> bspencer_: would it be possible for you guys to directly push changes into the bzr branch rather than what you do now where you have a git tree which nobody is entirely sure where is branched off from?
<lool> I'm afraid the update was too big too close to the release; but then I read that hildon-desktop saw a major rewrite in Hildon 2, so no surprize
<lool> davidm: Yes
<davidm> [action] lool will look at the current issues with hildon-desktop this coming week?
<MootBot> ACTION received:  lool will look at the current issues with hildon-desktop this coming week? 
<bspencer_> davidm, Intel should verify the ubuntu branch works and suggest changes.
<bspencer_> Mithrandir, yes.  We can update the ubuntu brach directly
<davidm> [action] Intel should verify the ubuntu branch works and suggest changes.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Intel should verify the ubuntu branch works and suggest changes. 
<bspencer_> s/suggest/make
<bspencer_> > bspencer and ToddBrandt to sync up on what components from Todd should be uploaded to gutsy
<agoliveira> I think that lool will have work for more time than that just with this item :) Hildon is going over a major makeove AFAIK.
<bspencer_> we did that.   We took out the software keyboard config for gutsy release
<bfiller> bspencer_: was there any resolution to the problem of other packages modifying hildon-desktop conf files?
<bspencer_> agoliveira, really?  I haven't heard about that.
<lool> agoliveira: i expect to devote more time to mobile stuff now that the release is out (except for a couple of SRUs in progress), but I have some low priority stuff to do in case I'm bored :)
<bspencer_> bfiller, some discussion
<bspencer_> bfiller, lucasr did show me a way to get statusbar items automaticlaly included
<lool> In general, many upstream modules must have been updated for Hildon 2
<davidm> bspencer_ do you want an action item on the "bspencer and ToddBrandt to sync up"
<bspencer_> but no consensus on how to remove the configuration items from the hildon-desktop pkg.
<lool> So we should probably upload all our modules; this is a pre-requisite to send our fixes anyway
<bspencer_> davidm, no.  We finished that
<davidm> K
<bspencer_> bfiller, anything else about that?
<lool> Err s/upload/update, sorry
<davidm> [topic] TODO for gutsy
<MootBot> New Topic:  TODO for gutsy 
<bspencer_> davidm, nice timing :)
<bspencer_> > Peter_u3 to talk to telepathy upstream about new libtelepathy.
<smagoun> bspencer_: I know bfiller was interested in the status of the patches he sent you
<bfiller> bspencer_: so do marquee_plugins and moblin-applets no longer directly modify the conf files in the postinst?
<davidm> little slow sorry, I'll edit it later
<Peter_home> bspencer, Mithrandir, davidm, ok.
<bspencer_> bfiller, I don't know if marquee-plugins ever did that.  Maybe they did and I wasn't aware.  
<bspencer_> but there is no resolution
<bspencer_> [Action] bspencer to resolve issue with hildon-desktop configuration files and separate packages
<Peter_home> I talked with Rob and Empathy author and they both told me the upgrade from 0.0.55 to 0.2 is safe
<mjg59> bfiller: They no longer do
<bfiller> mjg59, bspencer_ : ok, thanks
<bspencer_> [action] bspencer to resolve issue with hildon-desktop configuration files and separate packages
<bspencer_> .... ? :)
<davidm> [action] bspencer to resolve issue with hildon-desktop configuration files and separate packages
<MootBot> ACTION received:  bspencer to resolve issue with hildon-desktop configuration files and separate packages 
<bspencer_> thx.
<davidm> I have to do that as the meeting chair....
<bspencer_> got it
 * bspencer_ feels less powerful
<davidm> But that makes it easy for me to cut and paste :-)
<bspencer_> Peter_home, thanks for the update.  
<davidm> so feel free to do that Please...
<bspencer_> davidm, that is all the todo items for me.
<davidm> OK
<davidm> [topic] current items
<MootBot> New Topic:  current items 
<davidm> I don't have any on the web page in the wiki, does anyone have some?
<bspencer_> davidm, update your page
 * agoliveira added one and Mithrandir too...
<davidm> [TOPIC] Pre-Alpha status (tfheen)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Pre-Alpha status (tfheen) 
<lool> davidm: There are two now
<Mithrandir> I guess it makes sense to talk a little bit about current state.
<davidm> got it, my autoupdate failed ;-(
<davidm> I agree
<Mithrandir> calculator, media player, pim, chat and flash player are in (in some form)
<Mithrandir> I think we have the games in as well, but they're useless due to missing 3D at least on menlow
 * agoliveira agrees
<bspencer_> Mithrandir, "are in"  but far from complete, if even usable.  
<bspencer_> (did claws hildon make it in?  I tried it but didn't see the hildon version )
<Mithrandir> bspencer_: they were alpha deliverables from your end, so we don't expect them to be polished at all.
<bspencer_> Mithrandir, I like the "at all" part.  We hope to improve them significantly
<bspencer_> cheeze is also there and hildonized.
<rustyl> bspencer, Mithrandir ... i'm running late today
<kyleN> just noting the suggestions smagoun made on the list respecting modifying email UI to make it palatable
<agoliveira> bspencer_: Latest Claws wasn't uploaded due the release.
<bspencer_> kyleN, yes.  those were great.  much improvement!  should they be claws-based ?   who can own it... we should chat about this somewhere/sometime
<agoliveira> kyleN: This is a *very* long discussion
<bfiller> bspencer_: maybe a session at UDS is in order?
<kyleN> yes, such changes are big but probably essential
<Mithrandir> I'm less happy about the test plan though, or lack thereof.
<agoliveira> +1
<bfiller> bspencer_: we have lots of ideas and some rough specs that could be used as a discussion point
<bspencer_> bfiller, UDS?
<Mithrandir> Ubuntu Development Summit
<mfrey> bspencer: yes
<kyleN> i'd like to suggest that adding an app to core is not just hildonizing it, but also involves modifying the UI in ways as yet to be determined
<agoliveira> "in ways as yet to be determined" is the key
<bspencer_> kyleN, right.  I was discussing this same topic here yesterday
<kyleN> yes, appropriate for a small form factor screen and possibly gesture enabled etc
<bfiller> bspencer_: any Intel guys attending UDS?
<bspencer_> we can all recognize that our apps are ad hoc at this point and need much love and a joining of hands for look/feel and usability
<bspencer_> Mithrandir, do you want to chat about the test plan?
<kyleN> love is good
<agoliveira> bspencer_: I'm all for it.
<Mithrandir> bspencer_: unsure if we should do it in-meeting or not
<kyleN> this needs to be formalized a a requirement somehow
<agoliveira> The question is that if we divert too much from what hildon does, we might as well (have to?) trash hildon and use something else.
<agoliveira> I think we should discuss this at UDS.
<agoliveira> Make that "have to"
<bspencer_> an action item to do so would be good
<bspencer_> (test plan)
<davidm> bspencer_ action item for test plan or UI issues?
<bspencer_> both... start with the test plan
<mawhalen> irc://logicsbox.jf.intel.com:6665/umd
<bspencer_> for UI, there are multiple topics to discuss
<bspencer_> mawhalen, wrong channel ?
<mawhalen> sorry -
<bspencer_> :)
<davidm> [action] Review test place at UDS
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Review test place at UDS 
<bspencer_> UI:   ownership, how to get a higher quality of usabilty and consistency, process
<davidm> [action] Review UI issues at UDS
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Review UI issues at UDS 
<bspencer_> s/UI/ Apps 
 * agoliveira gets dizzy just with the implications...
<lool> davidm: Ah, reminds me I would like to know what I should bring to UDS; I'd prefer not bringing the Q1U unless it's really useful
<smagoun> I think someone should have a UI plan going into UDS. It will be much more effective that way
<davidm> I have created some items for UDS and both are already on my list
<bspencer_> agoliveira, I don't (yet) think we need to separate from hildon.  We can get very nice looking system with the hildon framework.
<lool> (Because I'll have lots of packages already and I fear losing it or breaking it or agoliveira pushing me in the stairs)
<davidm> I am planning on bringing my Q1 and my Crown Beach since it's quite easy for me to move things around in the US.
<Mithrandir> ok, move on then?
<davidm> sure
<bfiller> bspencer_: I agree. Don't think hildon is the problem
<davidm> [Topic] Intel participation on UDS (agoliveira)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Intel participation on UDS (agoliveira) 
<agoliveira> That's me...
<bspencer_> HappyCamp, will be there (John V)
<bspencer_> and Dan Johnson
<bspencer_> (I believe)
<bspencer_> s/Dan/Don
<agoliveira> We kind of treated about this already. Following the UI issues, I would like to know who/when the Intel guys will be around so we can talk about it.
<bspencer_> (oops)
<davidm> s/Dan/Don/
<bspencer_> Don_Johnson  ping
<bspencer_> as a family man I'm just disappointed that I can't go trick-or-treating with my kids, a much anticipated activity
<bspencer_> but I will be there too
<Don_Johnson> Yes I'm here and will be attending UDS. I plan on putting together some test plan proposals to bring with me.
<bspencer_> rustyl, won't, I think he has a conflict
<agoliveira> bspencer_: I have my wife *and* daugter birthdays during this period so stop complaining :)
<bspencer_> agoliveira, my condolences
<rustyl> i do have a conflict
<rustyl> so I will not be able to make UDS
<davidm> rustyl, is there any chance you can attend part of it?
<davidm> I have heard from my team that your presence is very important.
<davidm> Even if you can only make a day or two I can schedule items around it
 * agoliveira looks the other way, humming a song...
<kyleN> we need to write up expected USB client capacities for a customer. Is this covered anywhere?
<agoliveira> Am I still connected?
<bspencer_> davidm, rustyl   sync?
<agoliveira> Yes
<kyleN> exposing local folder to syncing, internet connection sharing. is the status of this final?
<davidm> agoliveira yes you are connected
<bspencer_> rustyl, you can't make any part of UDS?
<rustyl> let me review the dates again
<bspencer_> rustyl, get your priorities straight man!  UDS is where the action is.
<agoliveira> s/action/geeks + beer
<kyleN> sorry if I'm off topic, but I need to know 
<davidm> kyleN if you add it to the wiki I'll make sure to cover it.
<bspencer_> davidm, agoliveira ... that's all we have for UDS that I know of.  3 people:  Don, JohnV, Bob
<davidm> OK
<kyleN> not sure which wiki you are referring to
<davidm> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/Meeting/20071018
<kyleN> thx
<Peter_home> agoliveira, you should suggest UDS held on that beach.
<davidm> OK, are we done with UDS attendance?
<agoliveira> Peter_home: I'll, believe me :)
<agoliveira> davidm: I guess so
<davidm> if so is the next topic Application development and upstream (bspencer)?
<bspencer_> yes
<davidm> [topic] Application development and upstream (bspencer)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Application development and upstream (bspencer) 
<bspencer_> we covered some of this and it is a larger UDS topic probably
<bspencer_> but I wanted to discuss how to do significant app development on upstream projects
<bspencer_> for example, pushing up a patch at a time to claws email will not result in the UI that was sent out earlier
<bspencer_> (from pepper guys, can't remember who sent it)
<bspencer_> so it may need to be done in bigger chunks
<smagoun> bspencer_: that was me, I have more where that came rom
<bspencer_> with a temporary repository and ownership while these big changes are going on.
<bspencer_> smagoun, nice
<bfiller> bspencer_: note, Pepper guys are now Canonical guys  ;) 
<bspencer_> I know that we continually come back to not wanting to fork, so I think we have to agree on a balance
<agoliveira> bspencer_ PPAs can be used for that
<bspencer_> bfiller, ok... but you are a category :)
<bfiller> bspencer_: indeed
<bspencer_> I think for the key apps like email, chat, etc., it requires that we have a central hildon-specfic repo
<lool> When the changes are larger though, we must make sure we don't keep a burden of merging them after each new upstream release for too long
<smagoun> since changing claws to look like the mockup is a big piece of work, what about leveraging upstream to do that work?
<bspencer_> agoliveira, PPAs... I'll have to familiarize myself with how these can work.
<kyleN> added my action item to the wiki
<agoliveira> smagoun: I don't think that would work.
<bspencer_> smagoun, that is a good idea, but we have to be clear on the final product request
<lool> bspencer_: Distribution and source management is not a problem while implementing the changes IMO; the issue is long term maintenance
<bspencer_> so we have something that looks like the other applications
<smagoun> bspencer_:  we have that problem anyway, even if intel or canonical is doing the work :)
<bspencer_> lool, agreed.  
<lool> If you fork claws and make that claws-hildon, then you have to maintain that fork forever ... or be dropped  :-/
<bspencer_> lool, true.  You have to continually resync with upstream's new additions as they make things you want
<Mithrandir> which is a reason for us to prefer upstream projects which are GNOME ones, since hildon is one of the GNOME Mobile widget thingies
<lool> Perhaps we can convince upstream claws folks to have two flavors of the interface in their own tree and to start direct distribution of these two flavors upstream
<bspencer_> lool, it works if you have write access to the hildon repository
<bspencer_> in the short term that may not be possible thogh
<lool> For example some webapp projects have a web and a wap interface (don't laugh), we could sell them that they will soon be popular on N800 and MID devices :)
<agoliveira> Looks like this is another item for UDS.
<lool> bspencer_: I think we're talking of upstream apps here, not hildon
<lool> bspencer_: Or do you mean the Nokia maemo archive upload rights?
<bspencer_> lool, I mean tthe hildon-version of claws, for example
<davidm> [action] further discussion of Application development and upstream at UDS
<MootBot> ACTION received:  further discussion of Application development and upstream at UDS 
<lool> bspencer_: Yeah, and it takes some time to gain enough trust to achieve this
<bspencer_> lool, right.  OK.  UDS it is.
<bspencer_> thanks davidm 
<Peter_home> lool, if most changes are UI specific, I don't think so. Considering maemo garage have many many hildon UI apps hosted rather than hosted in upstream apps
<lool> We might also need to think of "corrupting" them properly; selling the idea /fast/ might include organizing in person meetings, blogging with screenshots, or sending them a device to hack on it themselves too; random ideas...
<davidm> I have to say where possible we really want upstream to take the changes so we don't maintain a fork forever.
<lool> Peter_home: I think there's a specificity here in that we need exact sync between upstream's releases and hildonized releases
<bspencer_> lool, good ideas.  Still, for the big 5-6 apps, I think someone who has a lot of skin in the game may need to own them "forever"
<bspencer_> meaning, continue to make sure they are picture-perfect and bug free
<lool> Peter_home: Say, a new release of claws comes out, the hildonization patch doesn't apply anymore, we might not be able to delay it until someone appears to update it
<lool> Or we update it ourselves, but then we're upstream of the "delta" and potentially investing large chunks of times forever
<lool> bspencer_: Oh I agree
<davidm> bspencer, no matter what someone with skin in the game is going to have to own them but if the changes are upstream there is less work involved in the ownership
<Peter_home> lool,IMHO, sync seems not avoidable. We have to sync by maintainers for hildon UI version
<lool> bspencer_: It makes sense to have an owned code base for some key apps or for some themes etc.
<lool> bspencer_: But the less, the better
<bspencer_> it is a balance between a distribution (who doesn't want to own any apps) and a company making the end product where everything is supported by them
<Peter_home> lool, agree, less, better
<mfrey> don't you think upstream would welcome changes to the apps that make them "killer" on a mobile device
<lool> Peter_home: I didn't get your previous remark
<agoliveira> Unless we have resurces enough to just fork it and have our way.
<lool> davidm: I fully agree with your remark: if the changes are close together, the maintenance burden for two versions is smaller
<smagoun> agoliveira: we don't, unless bspencer_ or rustyl can come up with some cash?
<davidm> mfrey, possibly if they see the value, but that becomes part of our job to try and help them to see the value in taking the patches
<agoliveira> smagoun: Exactly :)
<bspencer_> smagoun, let me check my pockets
<lool> smagoun: Sounds good!
<bspencer_> ok.  thakns for the brain dumping.  More at UDS.
<Peter_home> lool, I mean, for a few key apps for MID, we really have to have a specific version and sync with upstream by ourself. like many projects on garage.
<lool> Peter_home: Ack; but then we still need to identify an upstream for them too
<bfiller> bspencer_: Nokia walks this line between owning and distrubuting..
<bspencer_> Nokia core apps are Nokia owned, true?  Browser for example
<smagoun> bspencer_: yes
<bfiller> bspencer_: Skype is another example. Nokia made the "hildon" mods and is maintaining it
<davidm> bfiller, did they or did they pay skype to make the changes for them?
<Peter_home> lool, yes, if have to, let's do it now. Actually we have a good start point for those already in gutsy .
<lool> Again, we're in a slightly different situation in the way we handle hildonization right now: we mod packages for the lpia architecture, but we expect to do uploads for all architectures at once
<amitk> davidm: Skype did not do it
<bfiller> davidm: good question, I'm not sure. But I know it's propiertary
<lool> This is an organizational choice, and there are solutions, but this has a direct impact in the way we maintain things
<bspencer_> I just want a clear path to a professional looking result
<bspencer_> instead of a collection of open source apps
<Peter_home> bspencer_, yes, good point, totally agree. 
<lool> Peter_home: But who?  Proving its possible is an achievement, but when people move on to $next_project, who will continue maintenance?
<bfiller> bspencer_: paying customers will demand that (prof looking results that is)
<smagoun> bspencer_: we're with you - my group at canonical *needs* those professional apps
<bspencer_> </app dev>
<Peter_home> lool, MID is a category existing for a long time, just like phone, from my point.
<agoliveira> Unless we fork, I see a hard time ahead trying to convince upstream to include the necessary changes.
<Peter_home> lool, what agoliveira said is also a key fact. If only UI changes, it's difficut to persuit
<davidm> I don't see us solving this today, further conversations at UDS and elsewhere are going to be needed I think.
<bspencer_> I'd like to propose we go to next agenda.  We can discuss more online and at UDS.
<agoliveira> +1
<davidm> Done
<bspencer_> :)
<davidm> [topic] Expected USB Client functionality for customer (kyle)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Expected USB Client functionality for customer (kyle) 
<kyleN> my main question is what is the committed USB client functionality, capacities we know we will have and can be communicated to a customer now. is it written up?  1) Are the syncing issues resolved (how is the mid's ext3 file system exposed to a fat file system)? 2) is connecting sharing actually gong to happen. Is the software already in place? Etc.
<agoliveira> Ctrl+V :)
<kyleN> ;)
<Peter_home> lool, actually a example for moblin-chat, I have sent my patches to empathy author and his feedback is keeping this branch in molin site
<bspencer_> rustyl, ping  do you have an update?
 * rustyl catches up
<bspencer_> rustyl, about usb client status, plan.
<rustyl> bspencer, just what i saw in the email to the ubuntu-mobile mailing list
<lool> Peter_home: We should discuss this IRL
<bspencer_> rustyl, who (what person) owns usb client ?  
<rustyl> bspencer, that would be Don_Johnson 
<Peter_home> lool, sorry , what's IRL? 
<lool> Peter_home: I totally agree it's achievable technically to maintain forks and a good way to reach high quality; my problem is sustainability and maintenance
<lool> Peter_home: In Real Life (tm)
<bspencer_> ah.  Don_Johnson can you comment on kyleN 's qustion above?
<Don_Johnson> I own reporting status.  I'll have to check and get back to kyleN with an answer
<kyleN> Don_Johnson: thanks. I'll look forward to it
<bspencer_> kyleN, sorry :)
<rustyl> Don_Johnson, wasn't this covered in the blueprint?
<amitk> lool: in real life somebody pays for maintaining a fork :)
<rustyl> Don_Johnson, that is... the capabilities of the hardware
<bspencer_> kyleN, but I also had a couple guys look into basic media syncing.
<davidm> OK, on to the next topic
<bspencer_> kind of related.  I'll send you a status too (to the list)
<davidm> [topic] Organize the next meetings as we will be at UDS/AllHands (agoliveira). 
<MootBot> New Topic:  Organize the next meetings as we will be at UDS/AllHands (agoliveira).  
<Don_Johnson> I'll have to check.  This is one of the rough spots in taking over for Charlie
<lool> amitk: Exactly, you're more direct than me
<smagoun> Don_Johnson: did Charlie leave?
<davidm> A lot of my team will be traveling to UDS this time next week
<agoliveira> Self explanatory, I guess :)
<agoliveira> and there's allhands the other
<Peter_home> lool, I understand your concern. But reality is that we might have to maintain a fork it it's UI specific changes only. Anyway, case by case, if one app changes can be accpeted by upstream, that's best.
<Don_Johnson> Charlie isn't on today.  But he is still available.
<bfiller> davidm: isn't UDS the week of Oct 29th, not next week?
<agoliveira> bfiller: Yes but many of us are leaving on thursday 
<davidm> Yes, but we arrive on Friday  next week at the hotel and some folks have to start traveling on Thursday
<agoliveira> We're supposed to be there on friday
<bfiller> agoliveira: ahh
<agoliveira> (there's an event on the weekend too)
<Mithrandir> and Thursday is a day off for the entire distro team.
<agoliveira> That too.
<bspencer_> so no meeting for 2wks
<agoliveira> So what to do with the next 3 meetings?
<smagoun> agoliveira:  drink beer?
<agoliveira> (4 to me as I'll be on vacation :) )
<kyleN> +1 smagoun
<agoliveira> smagoun: On the 4th, absolutely
<davidm> Assuming that we can get connectivity at UDS can we have a meeting from there I wonder?
<Mithrandir> davidm: we will have connectivity at UDS.
<agoliveira> davidm: If we're not in a meeting already, which I doubt, of course.
<Mithrandir> we could have it, but I'd rather have an in-person status meeting with whoever is present.
<agoliveira> +1
<lool> davidm: +1
<davidm> I agree, which is why I've been pushing for more people to attend.
<davidm> :-)
<agoliveira> At the AllHands we will be in a session at thet time too IIRC
<davidm> [action] davidm to look into what and and how to have status meetings
<MootBot> ACTION received:  davidm to look into what and and how to have status meetings 
<bspencer_> davidm, at least force us all to send a weekly status next week.
<lool> We could move the meeting time I guess
<bspencer_> lool, :-O !
<davidm> I'll respond in email to the list I'm too new to know yet.
<agoliveira> Cool
<davidm> So give me a day or so to figure this out.
<davidm> OK I don't see any more topics on the Wiki
<davidm> Are we done?
<Peter_home> davidm, next UDS we might use a MID with WiMax and have meeting IIRC using that.
<davidm> There ya go
<agoliveira> \o/
<Mithrandir> davidm: Don_Johnson probably needs an action item for the USB client thing?
<Mithrandir> Peter_home: using IP over flying pigs! :-)
<davidm> [action]  Don_Johnson to investigate  USB client issues.
<MootBot> ACTION received:   Don_Johnson to investigate  USB client issues. 
<davidm> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 18:10.
<agoliveira> and running hurd to play duke nuken forever :)
<Peter_home> Mithrandir, :). But I don't understand what you mean by "using IP over flying pigs". :(
<Sciri> Peter_home: I believe Mithrandir is referring to a new IP spec based on RFC 2549: http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2549.html
<Peter_home> Sciri, Mithrandir, so cool. 
<Sciri> ;)
<agoliveira> Macadamia Nut Brittle... hmmmm.... :>)
 * agoliveira is trying to download the last daily but cdimages.u.c is really slow...guess why...
<apple2> I 'd like to ask suihkulokki how has he made bluez work under debian
<suihkulokki> apple2: bluez needs a firmware
<apple2> yes thats what ot sings for
<apple2> so is there a way?
<suihkulokki> apple2: the firmware should be under /mnt/initfs/somewhere
<apple2> I think I have lots of things there
<apple2> yes /mnt/initfs is the same as in maemo 
<suihkulokki> so you need to make symlinks from /usr/lib/hotplug/firmware to /mnt/initfs/usr/lib/hotplug/firmware 
<apple2> thank you very much :)
<apple2> that was useful
<apple2> I ll try in a minute
<apple2___> suihkulokki bluetooth is working now
<apple2___> :)
<apple2___> that was cool thank you, man
<apple2___> I copied the firmware files for sure
<suihkulokki> apple2___: what's the names of the fw files on the 770?
<suihkulokki> apple2___: and very cool that it works :) 
<apple2___> yes
<apple2___> the fw files
<apple2___> are
<apple2___> 3825.arm  3826.arm  brf6150fw.bin  mtlm3825.arm  mtlm3826.arm
<apple2___> i dont know which one what is for
<suihkulokki> the brf one is bluetooth
<apple2___> there arent more .bin files
<apple2___> and by the way I still have no wifi and sound
<suihkulokki> 3825 and 3826 are the wlan chips, i think the mtlm versions are for some special usage
<apple2___> thanks for the  info
<apple2___> some ideas about wifi?
<suihkulokki> maybe we should for a own irc channel for n800/770 before we get kicked from here ;)
<apple2___> ou yes
<apple2___> I'm a newbie in irc
<apple2___> sorry
#ubuntu-mobile 2007-10-19
<dholbach> good morning
<Mithrandir> morning, mr Holbach.
<dholbach> good morning Mr. Heen
<dholbach> how are you doing?
<Mithrandir> just got up.  Nothing too wrong so far.
<dholbach> hehe :)
<lool> Hmm where does the mobile-* hostname come from on the q1u?  I've properly setup hosts and hostname, but it keeps the name
<lool> Hmm /etc/init.d/hostname.sh
<lool> Oh same conffile in two packages, hmm what about we change the master hostname.sh to check whether /etc/hostname exists or else creates one?
<smagoun> Does McCaslin support hyperthreading? Or just Menlow?
<mjg59> McCaslin doesn't
<vania99> hello guys, just one question, is there currently some work on a ARM version of ubuntu mobile ? I would be very interested in that ... 
<smagoun> vania99: No, there isn't at this time. Feel free to start one if you like
<agoliveira> vania99: Short answer: no.
 * ian_brasil said that this would be a popular question ;)
<ian_brasil> maybe add it to the channel info?
<Hobbsee> anyone seen or spoken to markuman in the past while?
<agoliveira> ian_brasil: It's on the faq... I just wish people read it... <sigh>
<Hobbsee> agoliveira: hint:  point them at the /topic, and refuse to answer otherwise.  works a charm.
<Hobbsee> agoliveira: calling !topic is also effective
<agoliveira> Hobbsee: Don't know this markuman. Any other clues?
<agoliveira> !topic
<ubotu> Please read the channel topic whenever you enter, as it contains important information. To view it at any time after joining, simply type /topic
<agoliveira> :)
<Hobbsee> agoliveira: long ago channel contact.  *shrug*
<ian_brasil> agoliveira: yes, i know...maybe if it was on the channel info you could just say 'scroll up' instead of 'look at this URL'
<Hobbsee> ian_brasil: does anyone *read* the channel info?
<smagoun> isn't it easier to type "no, not now" than to try to get people to read the topic/faq/etc?
<agoliveira> smagoun: After the nth time, it becomes a real PITA.
<smagoun> but even after the nth time, "no" is still easier to type than trying to push the FAQ
<smagoun> ;)
<ian_brasil> Hobbsee: I always do but i am English and so like formal things  like: 'don't enter the channel without reading the info' 
<ian_brasil> :)
<Hobbsee> ian_brasil: oh, as in, on join messages, the ones which go to everyone's server window?  :)
<Hobbsee> ian_brasil: topics are the way to go, really
<ian_brasil> OK i am in danger of showing my ignorance of IRC protocols now so i will keep quiet
<smagoun> ToddBrandt: ping
<Hobbsee> ian_brasil: smart move.  i'm an #ubuntu op, among other things :)
 * ian_brasil bows deeply
<Hobbsee> :P
 * Hobbsee pokes Mithrandir
<bicchi> How do i get the touchscreen working. Which driver should I be using. I have tried: egalax
 * agoliveira looks for his crystal ball for the answer.... hmmm, no... too cloudy...
<dvarner> bicchi: your having trouble with the touchscreen?
<dvarner> the driver we use is evtouch
<rustyl> does anyone know what installs dh_testdir?  I'm trying to build a package via pbuilder on a new system and missing whatever package installs this
<rustyl> got it... debhelper
<ian_brasil> i am getting an error deb-data-member-wrongly-compressed using debuild ...any idea what this might be...?
<ian_brasil> looks like i found a lintian bug
<jpan__> robr, you there?
<robr_ubuntu> yes?
<rustyl> jpan__, 
<robr_ubuntu> jpan__, yes? how's the flood clean-up going?
<jpan__> robr_ubuntu, water retreated. fans are blowing
 * rustyl has visions of Jacob using his laptop from a rowboat
<robr_ubuntu> jpan__, i saw you're email with calvin
<jpan__> robr_ubuntu, just like in a hot tub, it is the water heater tank broken
<jpan__> robr_ubuntu, i wanted to ask you about the fb driver as well as our tolerance on the limitations
 * robr_ubuntu wonders if we should take this topic to #moblin
<jpan__> robr_ubuntu, ok
<robr_ubuntu> jpan__, i'm not seeing you on #moblin though
<jpan__> robr_ubuntu, i am having problem log in. let me try again
#ubuntu-mobile 2007-10-20
<antoinexp> bonjout
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-10-13
<ian_brasil> ogra: is there some problem to use libpam-gnome-keyring in ubuntu-mobile
<ian_brasil> asking for the password all the time is rather annoying
<ogra> no, there is a general problem with network manager
<ogra> will be fixed for final, is known
<ian_brasil> great..do you know if it will use libpam or something else?
<ogra> no idea, but it will only ask once as it did in hardy
<ogra> i asked our NM maintainer last week, but we didnt find the time to go into details :)
<ian_brasil> so if i want it to *never* ask the gnome-keyring i need to install libpam
<ogra> that should be installed by default anyway
<ogra> at least in mobile where we use gdm
<ian_brasil> ah, right..yes i just looked and it is there
<ian_brasil> excellent !
<ogra> ;)
 * ian_brasil should look before asking
 * lool waves
<lool> ian_brasil_: You can't use libpam-gk without a password
<huats> Hey guys. I am currently working on the glom update... and I have noticed that there is a config flag for building on maemo. (it is the case by the default) I am wondering if I can disable it, or not (if it is useful for you...)
 * lool grabs glom
<lool> I recall they added it in the stable releases
<lool> huats: It's either GNOME or maemo, the upstream build doesn't support both at the same time; if you enable maemo, it will create binaries which depend on maemo libs (e.g. libhildon) instead of libgnome
<lool> and it will link libglom statically and other oddnesses
<lool> huats: The only way this would be useful would be with a dual build, e.g. like in dates-hildon, or with hildon detection loaded at runtime (best but hardest)
<huats> ok
<lool> So answer is no, don't bother
<huats> thanks lool
<huats> :)
<lool> I don't even know what's using glom on maemo
<huats> so I will safely put a disable-maemo :)
<lool> huats: Is maemo turned on by default in newer gloms?
<huats> that was my guess... since when othing was specified, it was searching for the hildon libs...
<lool> huats: What's the glom version you're looking at?
<huats> lool: 1.7.3
<huats> lool: but don't look at it
<huats> it was my fault...
<huats> I was misreading it :(
<huats> sorry for the trouble :(
<filipegarcia> ogra: do you have time ??
<bugabundo_work> ogra: ping
<persia> filipegarcia, You've gotten intrepid running on your device?
<filipegarcia> yes 
<bugabundo_work> actually no, persia
<filipegarcia> mobile
<bugabundo_work> he has ubuntu-mobile daily
<filipegarcia> that's it 
<bugabundo_work> its almost the same, but we don't want to get it confused again
<bugabundo_work> lol
<ogra> that is intrepid, sorry, i'm wading deep in gnome bugs atm for ltsp
<persia> That's intrepid :)
<persia> filipegarcia, So, what's your screen doing now?  Still rotated half way and calibrated wrong, or working better?
<filipegarcia> now doesn't do a thingâ¦
<bugabundo_work> I know mobile is intrepid, ogra. but maybe some thing inside is a bit diferent on mobile, and we don't the inside
<ogra> its ubuntu-desktop with a different desktop layout and the touchscreen drivers added :)
<ogra> under the hood its udentical
<bugabundo_work> eheh ok
<ogra> *identical
<bugabundo_work> nice to know
<persia> mobile should work *better* for touchscreens, but otherwise be the same.
<persia> filipegarcia, DO you still have the .fdi file you created last time?
<bugabundo_work> in filipegarcia case he doesn't even see it now
<bugabundo_work> he might have it on the disk, he is running from Pendrive
<bugabundo_work> is just a question of mounting the disk, and copy the file, I guess
<bugabundo_work> right filipegarcia ?
<bugabundo_work> I need to go help some users
<bugabundo_work> brb
<filipegarcia> yes i have
<persia> Yeah.  That'd be the first step, and then restarting stuff.  Essentially, to go through the same process as last time, except this time it should work :)
<filipegarcia> i'm running live mode now but i guess i will install it first
<persia> filipegarcia, You don't need to reboot.  If you add the file, just restart hal and gdm from a virtual console, and you should be fine.
<filipegarcia> too late :)
<persia> heh.  Well, if you're willing to install, I shan't complain :)  More testers means a better quality release.
<filipegarcia> just a kick question. Am i  supposed to be able to close the virtual keyboard?? 
<filipegarcia> because even in the normal version i always use the force quit button i have in the panel
<persia> I've never found a way to close it in -mobile.
<persia> ogra?
<filipegarcia> in mobile i had to put the force quit in the left panel so i can close it
<ogra> you should be able to by just tapping on the CW icon in the panel again
<ogra> (or clicking) 
<ogra> works here
<ian_brasil> IIRC on nokia devices this is hard coded to a hardware key (if  mobile uses the same software of course)
<ogra> it doesnt (yet=
<ogra> )
<ogra> the current keycodes are just a port of the last release, i will be able to adjust the mapping for jaunty though
<ogra> (it took me a while to get that upstream into hal-info, they would chop off my head if i change it now)
<filipegarcia> :)
<filipegarcia> it works now
<filipegarcia> with the rotate cw and the swapy 
<persia> Excellent!
<ogra> yay
<ogra> can you paste the .fdi again, i lost it, i will include it in the next upload of evtouch so we have it in the default setup 
<filipegarcia> shure
<filipegarcia> i'm just trying to calibrate again
<filipegarcia> to check if the values are the same
<ogra> well, if it works the values should at least be close to right :)
<filipegarcia> the calibration toll doesn't show me the following screen
<filipegarcia> might be because in the beginning it says that is with the X in safe mode ??
<filipegarcia> ogra: ping
<ogra> yep
<filipegarcia> here is the .fdi http://paste.ubuntu.com/57053/
<filipegarcia> i guess mobile won't work for me 
<filipegarcia> i need the normal version of firefox 
<filipegarcia> with a real fullscreen 
<ogra> install it then :)
<ogra> there is no reason to not use normal firefx if you want it, all ubuntu archives are available in mobile through add/remove or synaptic
<ogra> as i sadi before its identical to desktop, you can use/install all software desktop has as well
<filipegarcia> i see 
<ogra> (even in the live environment thats possible)
<filipegarcia> for some reason i'm unable to put the touch working in intrepid 
<filipegarcia> non-mobile version
<filipegarcia> with the same file
<bugabundo_work> ogra: but AFAIK mobile doesnt have a window decorator right?
<bugabundo_work> so using it on a 17" LCD is just a waste 
<ogra> it uses devilspie to suppress decorations atm
<bugabundo_work> what's that?
<ogra> i might switch to maximus in jaunty though
<ogra> its an addon to metacity that also works under compiz ... you can do funy stuff with it to windows, google it :)
<filipegarcia> ogra: you think i wont have any problems using mobile running apache and mysq as a POS??
<bugabundo_work> LOL filipegarcia
<ogra> not more than usning ubuntu desktop for it :)
<bugabundo_work> so you are just trying out mobile for the toutch screen support?
<bugabundo_work> plus mobile is a bit lighter then Ubuntu-generic
<bugabundo_work> maybe 'cause of the devilspie
<bugabundo_work> or for have been coded to run on netbooks
<ogra> it wasnt :)
<ogra> it was coded for UMPCs :)
<ogra> though many many people use it on netbooks :)
<bugabundo_work> ohhh
<bugabundo_work> those UMPCs are those that run on phones?
<ogra> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-Mobile_PC
<ogra> the samsung is a typical UMPC
<Vuokko> what about fujitus netbooks? there is something.com/~jules/something patch for kernel and enables keyboard lightning... has it been added?
<ogra> if someone filed a bug about it and pointed the kernel team to it 
<Vuokko> because compiling kernel with 800MHz isn't thing that I wnat to do so I don't know does it work with loox U 50 which is supposed to be U 1010 or 810
<Vuokko> :)
<ogra> Vuokko, best is to ask that in #ubuntu-kernel i guess
<ogra> we dont really maintain our own kernel
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-10-14
<NanoRobot> Hello everyone. Can anybody help me to answer the question about the compatibility of my device (Gigabyte M704) with ubuntu-mobile ? Thank you in advance.
<persia> NanoRobot, Sure.  What's the processor, memory, video driver, secondary storage?  Does it have a USB port?  If it has a touchscreen, which model?
<persia> NanoRobot, Oh, and what's the resolution & screen size?
<NanoRobot> So, it is : proc: VIA C7, video: VIA Unichrome Pro (VIA VN800 - south bridge)  1024*800, 40Gb ATA-133, it has 2 usb ports.
<NanoRobot> VN-800 is a north bridge, sorry .
<persia> Should be fine.  http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-mobile/intrepid/current has today's daily image.  Put that on a USB stick, and try booting off it.
<NanoRobot> Ok,will try, thank you.
<persia> NanoRobot, If it has wireless networking, you may have to hunt a bit to get the right driver working (there's currently some fixes pending in intrepid : it's still beta), but I know your chop and video are supported, you've plenty of pixels, and plenty of space on the hard drive.
<NanoRobot> "but I know your chop and video are supported"  -  I am glad to hear it. Will try to install it and will write you a feedback.
<NanoRobot> One more question, are there any utils to burn this image on the flash-drive from windows ?
<persia> From windows?  I don't think the recommended tool was ported to windows yet.  There's a dd for windows, or you might be able to use rawrite.  There might also be other tools (I'm not sure).
<NanoRobot> Ok, thanks a lot once again :) It can be funny, I tried to use several utils for windows, but they are not able to burn this image, and of course they are not free :)
<persia> It's just the set of bits you want on the drive.  Anything which expects a format isn't likely to work.  I think I heard something about a redhat tool, but I neither remember what it's called, nor whether it works for those images.
<ian_brasil> lool: the sleep-now.sh script for MID is still being used?
<lool> ian_brasil: Dunno
<persia> ian_brasil, Is that present on the current images?  I thought I killed it.
<lool> ian_brasil: Don't think so
<ian_brasil> no...but pm-suspend can be slow at times
<ian_brasil> so maybe this could be used in this situation
<lool> ian_brasil: We had a look with ogra, and new pm-utils didn't seem /that/ big; would be nice if you could check what sucks so much time
<lool> At least which script/function is the most expensive
<persia> Well, except that ppm isn't shipped anymore.  I think we'd do better to make pm-utils faster itself.
<ian_brasil> lool: ok, i will have a look..about the script, i just put it in /usr/lib/pm-utils/sleep.d/ and call it from there
<ogra> n
<ogra> grr, damned focus 
<LjL> is midbrowser fixed by any chance? (it was broken a few days ago i think)
<lool> ogra, persia: would one of you know where the psb autodetection is located for xorg?
<persia> lool, I'll go find it.
<lool> persia: Cool thanks
<persia> Hmm.  I would have expected it in /usr/share/xserver-xorg/pci/ but it's not there.
<ogra> yeah, there should be a psb.ids file
<ogra> grep for ayour PCI id in that dir
<ogra> *your
<persia> my psb box is under some stuff, and I don't want to dig at this hour.  I'll look some other places.
<ogra> well, lool could just paste lspci -n for his :)
<lool> I think the pci.ids file is with the psb driver; there must be some other place
<persia> That could help.  Looks to me like each driver populates the /usr/share/xserver-xorg/pci/foo.ids
<ogra> there is also a lib 
<ogra> might have something hardcoded
<persia> Or HAL maybe?
<persia> X 1.5 has a lot more dynamic stuff, which confuses me a bit when looking for config.
<persia> ogra, Maybe something in /usr/lib/X11/config/ ?
<ogra> i guess its somewhere in xorg-server
<ogra> hw/xfree86/common/xf86PciInfo.h
<ogra> in the xorg-server package lists a ton
<ogra> lool, do you have your pci id handy ? 
<lool> not handy
<lool> it's physically near me
<lool> but psychologically it's at the other end of the world
<ogra> heh
<ogra> well, i only need lspci and lspci -n output
<persia> ogra, Actually, I have that in a bug.  Hold on...
<persia> ogra, http://launchpadlibrarian.net/17973624/lspci
<ogra> +               case 0x8108:
<ogra> +                   driverList[0] = "psb"; break;
<ogra> aha
<ogra> debian/patches/142_psb_auto.patch in xorg-server-1.5.1
<persia> You found it.  Kill that :)
<ogra> you could foce vesa in that line 
<ogra> *force
<persia> Indeed.
<ogra> or add a driverList[1]
<ogra> if psb isnt installed, use vesa ... that way you can install psb once there is a backported package or something in a PPA
<persia> That sounds better.  Give lool a patch?
<lool> You rock people
<lool> Why do we have pci ids in xorg-server?
<ogra> hw/xfree86/common/xf86AutoConfig.c seems to use it for autoconfiguration
<ogra> persia, i would if the darn package wouldnt use quilt
<persia> ogra, OK.  I'll do it, but I want to sleep soon, and have to go to the office tomorrow, so it will be ~12 hours minimum.
<lool> ogra: hand me a diff and I'll commit it
<lool> I was in love with quilt up to recently
<ogra> persia, well, if its that, i can do it, i rather thought lool is capale to do it on his own, i didnt know it would keep you up extra time
<ogra> lool, you have a werid taste
<ogra> :)
<lool> ogra: what I'd like to understand is why we have pci ids there; I don't want to remove support for psb autodetection if we get it back in a ppa for instance
<lool> ogra: I thought the pci ids were externalized exactly for the purpose of enabling support for a pci id when the driver is installed
<ogra> i think it uses the ids files and if it doesnt find something matching it falls back to the hardcoded stuff
<lool> ogra: aha
<lool> ogra: and then to vesa?
<persia> It should just fall back to vesa.
<ogra> probably, i have to look a bit closer at the code
<NanoRobot> Hello all, once again. Have a problem with installation ubuntu mobile for my device (i downloaded  an image from http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-mobile/intrepid/current/, wrote it on the flash-drive, loaded from it, everething was ok, but after the screen with ubuntu load process with ubuntu logo i couldn't see anything - only black screen.) Then i tried to load this system again with connected external monitor - and after  "ubuntu loa
<NanoRobot> ubuntu live. Have i got problems with video (it is on via vx700 chipset) ? 
<NanoRobot> Does anybody have an experience with installing via vx700 video driver ? 
<ogra> that should use openchrome 
<ogra> afauk not available under lpia 
<ogra> *afauk
<ogra> bah
<ogra> *afaik
<ogra> lool, what was the reason again to not build openchrome ? 
<lool> I think we could
<lool> There are IMO three things
<lool> a) openchrome is for via; lpia is for intel; you supposedly wont find openchrome graphics with an atom cpu, so no need to build it
<lool> b) still, some people want lpia, lpia is hildon, lpia is i686
<lool> c) lpia might be dropped in jaunty
<ogra> http://www.netbux.de/one/one-a450-10-fuer-eur-349/
<lool> And a fourth one actually d) more diff with debian for lpia
<ogra> looks like there are some via based netbooks now
<lool> and it's an atom cpu?
<ogra> nope
<lool> no it's a via c7-m
<ogra> C7
<NanoRobot> cpu is via c7
<ogra> so ubuntu-mobile is your only option currently
<lool> so it conflicts with a)
<ogra> ubuntu-mid is only built for lpia (atom)
<lool> But I really don't care much about honoring a); I just think it's the policy in xorg pacakges to not build on impossible configs
 * ogra really hopes for c)
<lool> ogra: Given the current blur between lpia/i686/atom/hildon, I wouldn't mind if someone stepped up to build openchrome and its friends for lpia
<NanoRobot> ogra: ok , thank you , will try to build openchrome.
<ogra> doesnt help with C7
<ogra> lool, netbooks with via X hardware very likely also have a via CPU :)
<ogra> NanoRobot, if you use ubuntu-mobile, the openchrome driver is there already
<ogra> ubuntu-mod wont work with your CPU anway
<ogra> *anyway
<NanoRobot> ogra: yes , i use ubuntu-mobile (try to install), but i have problems with video
<ogra> hmm, that should actually work
<NanoRobot> ogra: i can run it only from external monitor , lsd on device shows black screen after ubuntu- load process with ubuntu-logo screen.
<lool> ogra: My point is, some people might be interested in running lpia, even if it's meant for atom, because lpia also implies some packages built for hildon and optimization for i686, not i48
<lool> i486
<lool> So on this base, it's defendable to install lpia on via
<ogra> lsd ? 
<ogra> :)
<ogra> you mean LCD ?
<NanoRobot> yes )) sorry )
<ogra> .oO(dont test netbooks on drugs :) )
<NanoRobot> English is difficult for me :)
<ogra> hmm, so the graphics driver is actually ok, your LCD seems to not be recognized properly
<NanoRobot> one more moment, and with external monitor i can't set resolution more then 800*600
<ogra> that sounds like your system uses the vesa drivr and not openchrome
<NanoRobot> LCD default resolution is 1024*600 (and it support 800*600, and it work propently with windows), but i don't like windows.
<ogra> look in /var/log/Xorg.0.log if you see VESA all over the place it is not using openchrome
<NanoRobot> ok, will see it (now, i am not able to do that, ubuntu-mobile is installing, i killed it with a video driver from via site.)
<ogra> http://forum.eeepcnews.de/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=2959
<ogra> there is an xorg,conf that might work
<ogra> sorry, sadly german, but probably google translate can help you 
<NanoRobot> ok, thank you very much, will read it. )
<NanoRobot> There are no VESA  in /var/log/Xorg.0.log
<NanoRobot> PCI VIA Technologie, Inc. CX700/VX700 [S3 UniChrome Pro]
<ogra> so it uses te right driver, thats good
<ogra> try the xorg.conf from the link above
<NanoRobot> Tried xorg.conf , file from XFdrake - system faild.
<ogra> XFDrake ? 
<ogra> who is that ?
<ogra> oh, thats what created the file above
<NanoRobot> this is a man who write conf file .
<NanoRobot> There is only blinking underline in the left corner. But i can see it from LCD )
<ogra> hmm
<NanoRobot> I am very junior linux user, so i have no ideas !( Ask google "How to load linux from command line")
<ogra>  you can try running the following:
<ogra> Xorg -configure
<ogra> (as a normal user) 
<ogra> that will create an xorg.conf.new file in your homedir (it tells you where in the end)
<ogra> all you actually need from the file above is the monitor section
<ogra> try to replace that section in the file that was created
<ogra> and then copy it into place
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-10-15
<NanoRobot> i have a back up of old xorg.conf file, but don't know how to replace it, because don't know how to load command line. Are there any hot keys , not to load gui ?
<ogra> try ctrl-alt-f1
<NanoRobot> no,  ctrl-alt-f1 has no success. I think i have only one way - boot from flash, right ?
<ogra> from the usb key ? yes, that might help
<lool> I think I kicked -psb in hardy and in intrepid decently for today
<NanoRobot> ogra: I need a bit to sleep .I will continue the next day. Good buy. Thank you very much for your help !
 * ogra still waits if linux-lpia survives
<ogra> NanoRobot, you're welcome, i'll be here tomorrow and others too :)
<lool> Oh right, I also have ppc64 at home, didn't realize
<lool> Too bad I don't have a live image
<ogra> wow, you have ppc64 ? 
<lool> Yeah, PS3
 * ogra only has ppc and mips 
<ogra> gah
<ogra> now i'm envious
 * ogra has a Xbox first gen ...
<lool> and I never play it
<ogra> because MS paid for it i *had* to buy it
<lool> haha
<ogra> and 6 games
<lool> I have 2 games, one being a prerelease of a game
<ogra> i fifnshed two of them in the five years i got the box
<ogra> and you cant even get and new ones anymore for it :/
<lool> ah
<ogra> so i could at least collect games i dont play :P
<ogra> last kernel build failed after 47 min ... i guess if it survives 1h we're safe and i'll go to bed ... lrm and meta tomorrow then
<ogra> only 20 min to go :)
<ogra> the buildds are not really faster than anything i have at home ...
<lool> they are under xen, and might even do multiple builds at once though :)
<ogra> for lpia ? 
<ogra> :)
<lool> yeah
<lool> they are under xen for lpia
<ogra> i meant multiple builds :)
<lool> heh why not
<lool> everything is built for lpia
<ogra> oh, sweet, https://bugs.launchpad.net/+builds/molybdenum actually shows whats going on
<ogra> i wish it had autorefersh
 * lool waves 'night
<ogra> GRRRR !
<ogra> faled again, even with abi ignore files
 * ogra gives up
<lool> persia: Did you see any geode based netbooks?  I'll prepare a lpia openchrome as I think you saw some netbooks with openchrome, but I'm less tempted with geode because we're in sync with debian
<ogra> geode is broken anyway
<ogra> its supposed to be replaced with something non backward compatible 
<lool> it is?
<ogra> upstream doesnt want to forward port old code and writes something from scratch
<ogra> best talk to Q-Funk about it, he is workig closely with upstream
<ogra> i might have misunderstood him
<lool> ogra: But why is it currently broken?
<ogra> wasnt ported to Xorg 1.5 afaik
<ogra> do we have it in -all ? 
<lool> I dropped it in lpia
<lool> but it's listed in i386
<ogra> yeah, we do
<lool> It seems it was rebuilt for 1.5
<ogra> i'll ask Q-Funk if he is online, he's a resident in #ltsp
<lool> ogra: can you check whether it has the proper provides?
<ogra> hah, speaking of the devil
<lool> ogra: thanks; if you like you can suggest inclusion of lpia
<lool> but then, you might want to mention we might drop it in subsequent ubuntu releases
<ogra> well, geode and lpia makes s much snese as openchrome and lpia ...
<ogra> geode is an integrated gpu/cpu chip
<ogra> like the C7 usually has the graphics ship builtin
<ogra> both need the 586 instruction set
<ogra> which lpia doesnt have
<ogra> with more netbooks coming up with such arches we should really start building -mid for i386 instread
<lool> I pushed openchrome for lpia
<ogra> though i ony hve seen via yet
<lool> ogra: err lpia has 586
<ogra> # CONFIG_M386 is not set
<ogra> # CONFIG_M486 is not set
<ogra> # CONFIG_M586MMX is not set
<ogra> # CONFIG_M586TSC is not set
<ogra> not in what i uploaded yesterday
<lool> right, it's 686
<lool> I misparsed what you meant
<lool> You were saying that C7 only supports up to 586
<ogra> right, geode and C7 both use 586 instructions 
<lool> ogra: So -geode wont make sense on lpia anytime soon
<lool> ok
<lool> ogra: And what about openchrome?  I see it's built for amd64
<lool> I guess some chips come with 686 CPUs
<ogra> well, there are probably ways to put a geode gpu only chip into atom or via gpu only 
<ogra> i havent seen them yet though
<lool> I doubt you'll find geode + atom
<lool> But then ICBW
<ogra> all a matter of the right soldering i guess ... if people would do it is a different thing :)
<lool> ogra: Hmm isn't it that -nsc is being merged in geode?
<ogra> geode is amd owned, so amd64 + geode is somewhat a natural thing
<ogra> no
<ogra> -amd was moved to -geode
<lool> Description-fr: X.Org X server -- NSC Geode GX1 display driver
<ogra> right
<lool>   [ Julien Cristau ]
<lool>   * vars.*: Drop nsc from video-all.  It was only ever useful on i386 anyway,
<lool>     and should get integrated into geode at some point.
<ogra> there are the LX and ... DX i think ... chipsets
<ogra> the Dx is the old one for which you used -nsc
<ogra> LX is the new one which used to use -amd which then was renamed to -geode
<ogra> since both have the same manufacturer it makes sense to merge nsc into eode
<ogra> *geode
<Q-FUNK> ogra: ?
<Q-FUNK> what about nsc versus geode?
<ogra> lool, ^^^ here is the man that can answer all the questions :)
<lool> Q-FUNK: Hey, will nsc be merged in geode in the future?
<lool> Cause I just merged dropping nsc from video-all for lpia
<Q-FUNK> yup, nsc will b e merged in geode
<Q-FUNK> http://wiki.x.org/wiki/AMDGeodeDriver#preview
<Q-FUNK> and cyrix too
<lool> Ok, not sure whether it was time to drop it from video-all, but anyway
<Q-FUNK> it can be
<Q-FUNK> it's supposed to be i386-only anyhow
<lool> Q-FUNK: Another couple of questions; lpia is 686, is it possible to combine a) openchrome with i686 and b) geode with i686 capable CPUs?
<Q-FUNK> I'm still baffled as to how it even build on !i386 platforms
<Q-FUNK> come again?
<Q-FUNK> exactly how is openchrome related to geode?
<Q-FUNK> one is for the via chipset and the other for the geode chipset
<lool> Q-FUNK: Ok, just skip a), I thought you also cared about openchrome
<Q-FUNK> or were you talking about build options?
<Q-FUNK> ah
<Q-FUNK> but basically, geode can be built with -m686 if desired, yes, AFAIK
<lool> Q-FUNK: Is it possible to use it in a 686 hardware configuration?
<lool> It probably builds on alpha and powerpc as well, but I don't think you can combine a geode-supported chip with these arches for example
<Q-FUNK> geode only builds on i386 and amd64, so far.  lpia probably works also, but is untested.
<lool> Note, my question is not about building; I wonder whether hardware configs with 686 and geode-supported graphics exist?
<Q-FUNK> geode is x86 by definition, since the video is integrated with the x86 cpu
<lool> I don't doubt it would build on lpia
<lool> lpia is x86, but it's i686
<Q-FUNK> old cyrix and nsc geode are essentially i586
<Q-FUNK> IIRC GX2 is also 586, but LX might be 686
<Q-FUNK> brb
<lool> Q-FUNK: Let me ask that differently, we have the lpia arch, and the Ubuntu MID images using this arch; some people would like to use Ubuntu MID or the packages from the lpia arch in general, but we don't know whether we should make geode available on that arch
<lool> blah
<ogra> well, i think if he's right with LX it might make sense to have the LX driver
<lool> Yeah, so enabling geode on lpia
<ogra> right
<ogra>  This X.org server module supports the AMD Geode GX2/LX video chipsets.
<lool> But since he's the maintainer of the git tree, I'd like to ask him to add lpia
<ogra> though the description talks abotu GX2 *and* LX
<lool> That's fine
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> lool, eeek, you dropped i810
<lool> yes
<ogra> that might get oem in trouble
<lool> xserver-xorg-video-i810
<lool>  This is a transitional package providing the Xorg video driver for the
<lool>  Intel i8xx and i9xx family of chipsets, and can be safely removed.
<ogra> the i810 driver is the only one still supporting panning
<ogra> ugh
<lool> It's in -intel now
<lool> AIUI
<ogra> then we cant support cmpc anymore
<ogra> -intel is definately linked to xrandr 
<lool> *I* didn't break it :-)
<ogra> i810 hed some hacks that made the Virtual option switch to panning instead of a virtual desktop
<ogra> they are not compatible with the intel driver
<Q-FUNK> re
<lool> Q-FUNK: Let me ask that differently, we have the lpia arch, and the Ubuntu MID images using this arch; some people would like to use Ubuntu MID or the packages from the lpia arch in general, but we don't know whether we should make geode available on that arch
<ogra> Q-FUNK, so enabling geode on lpia seems to make sense 
<lool> Q-FUNK: it might be that geode LX supports i686, in which case it would be nice to list lpia in the arch list for geode
<Q-FUNK> it would
<ogra> according to your comment that LX might be 686
<Q-FUNK> can we enable it as a test and see if it builds?
<ogra> freeze is on thu. not sure how much we can shuffle after that
<Q-FUNK> if it does, I'll just add it to the upstream debian package's arch list and to the hardy-backports
<lool> Q-FUNK: Thanks; NB this probably need a Pas update as well
<lool> I just maield the Pas maintainers
<Q-FUNK> there is a p-a-s at ubuntu also?
<lool> It's shared with Debian, yes
<Q-FUNK> also, we still don't have any lpia arch at debian, do we?
<Q-FUNK> thanks for mailing p-a-s maintainers
<lool> It's supported in Debian's dpkg, but Debian isn't built for lpia that I know of
<Q-FUNK> ok, that's what I thought
<lool> Q-FUNK: I just built -geode on intrepid lpia
<lool> By appending lpia to Architecture: lines
<Q-FUNK> worked?
<Q-FUNK> ok, I'll add it then
<lool> Well I don't have anything to test it
<lool> it built the _drv.so and hte xvmc libs at least
<Q-FUNK> that sounds like a good start
<Q-FUNK> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-geode/+bug/255991
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 255991 in xserver-xorg-video-geode "xf86-video-geode:  DDC probing broken on GX2/CS5535 since 2.9.0 (patch)" [Undecided,Fix released] 
<Q-FUNK> lool: I'll add it to the debian/experimental package now.  could you sponsor it?
<Q-FUNK> then we can sync to intrepid 
<lool> I'm not sure I understand where you want me to sponsor?  to intrepid to then sync to intrepid?!
<lool> I can sponsor the SRU, but I don't see how this relates to a sync
<Q-FUNK> to experimental, then sync to intrepid
<Q-FUNK> intrepid currently uses the experimental package from debian
<lool> Ok, is sponsoring to experimental related to above bug?  Or should I just sponsor what's in git to experimental?
<Q-FUNK> we don't use git yet
<Q-FUNK> goede is not maintained by XSF
<lool> But it's at git://anongit.freedesktop.org/git/xorg/driver/xf86-video-geode.git right?
<lool> Aha
<Q-FUNK> Arch: is space-separated list right?
<lool> the packaging isn't
<lool> Q-FUNK: yes
<lool> Q-FUNK: you shouldn't have Vcs-* fields if the packaging isn't at this place
<Q-FUNK> it's only to indicate where the packaing is?  i thought it was to indicate the upstream repo
<lool> No, it's for the repo of the Debian / Ubuntu source
<Q-FUNK> ah
<Q-FUNK> lemme remove this, then
<lool> You get a warning when you apt-get source a package with Vcs-*
<lool> (because you should use the Vcs, not apt-get source)
<lool> and debcheckout will pull from the Vcs if you ask for a source tree, but you want the packaging when you do debcheckout
<lool> Q-FUNK: where the experimental upload to sponsor then?
<Q-FUNK> just a sec
<Q-FUNK> http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/x/xserver-xorg-video-geode/xserver-xorg-video-geode_2.10.1-4.dsc
<Q-FUNK> this can be sync'ed from experimental into intrepid after
<Q-FUNK> lool: there :)
<lool> Hmm needs experimental, will take a while to update my experimental chroot
<lool> argh
<lool> it's not amd64
<lool> need to build in i386 blah
<Q-FUNK> indeed not
<Q-FUNK> although in principle, building on amd64 should work
<Q-FUNK> there's some configure checks to see whether it's being built on amd64
<Q-FUNK> I don't have any amd64 hardware to test a build with, so I never enabled the arch
<lool> amd64 is not in the architecture list
<Q-FUNK> you're welcome to try addign it and see if it builds
<lool> I don't think there are amd64 + geode configs yet anyway
<Q-FUNK> the only safe choice for geode has been i386, since we're talking about an i586 -compatible chipset, so that's the only one I had enabled
<Q-FUNK> but in priciple, configure allows using amd64 as a build host
<lool> i586 *and* i686 IIUC
<lool> Q-FUNK: the SRU is half prepared; I'm not too confident in doing the other half myself
<lool> the acked diff is the one attached by bryce
<lool> I think I'd prefer him to pursue the SRU
<Q-FUNK> ok
<Q-FUNK> let's focus on the experimental+intrepid one, for now
<Q-FUNK> that's already something :)
<lool> pushed the experimental version
<lool> will ask for sync tomorrow, when it's dinstalled in debian
<lool> I wonder whether we should kick a build to see whether psb detection is really fallbacking to vesa now
<persia> lool, The only *chrome device I know that might be interested is the oqo v2, but I think that's VIA C-7M, which I think is only i586.
<persia> lool, That said, I've not exactly tested everything out there :)
<lool> ogra: ubuntu-mobile doesn't come up in kvm
<lool> ogra: this looks really bad
<Celtiore> hi all
<Celtiore> persia, do you have info about the rumour for the 'opening' of idctouch driver ?
<ogra> lool, hmm, i never test on kvm, the converted image in vbox used to work
<lool> ogra: it's recent
<asac> lool: #283080
<asac> lool: you know if those are getting their packages from a different repo=
<asac> ?
<persia> Celtiore, I've not heard that rumor, so sorry, but no.
<asac> or are you the wrong to ask?
<persia> bug #283080
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 283080 in firefox-3.0 "Update Firefox for lpia to 3.0.1 (hardy)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/283080
<lool> asac: You should talk to OEM
<persia> asac, I see firefox-3.0 as 3.0~b5+nobinonly-0ubuntu3 on hardy lpia, which matches other architectures.  I'm not sure if a different repo is used.
<lool> asac: They use some fork of hardy
<asac> well. they _must_ track security imo
<asac> there we have 3.0.3
<persia> asac, I don't track security in my chroot :)  Let me update, and confirm for lpia.
<ogra> lool, -mid works in kvm ?
 * ogra really didnt plan to do any image testing today, evtouch was on my plate :/
<persia> ogra, I'll do image testing then.  Please fix evtouch.
<ogra> well, nothing to fix but i need to finish the .fdi files :) i'll jum on the image as well then
<ogra> persia, what are you doing here today ? 
<persia> It's not day anymore :)
<lool> ogra: xorg comes up, but stays on the orange background
<lool> it doesn't look like a xorg breakage
<ogra> lool, smells like compiz
<lool> hmm actually I don't have mouse
<ogra> hal ?
<ogra> hmm
<lool> The mouse is displayed, but doesn't work
 * ogra rsyncs
<ogra> yeah, sounds like hal
<lool> i'm trying mid now
<ogra> do other kvm images work ? 
<ogra> right
<lool> on another front, jax10, it doesn't fallbackon vesa
<lool> It detects an intel chip
<ogra> that rather sounds like something low level
<lool> lspci says 8086:8109
<lool> ogra: Argh, ignore me
<lool> ogra: today's images probably work fine *sigh*
<persia> lool, What did you do?
<lool> I broke my kvm wrapper, and it didn't pass -m 512
<ogra> ouch
<persia> heh
<asac> persia: thx
<lool> sorry folks
<ogra> what does it default to ? 
<lool> not enough
<ogra> mobile should work with 256
<lool> I think 128
<ogra> ah
<lool> it defaults to 128
<ogra> as long as nobody broke compcache at least
<lool> much faster and better :)
<ogra> heh
<ogra> phew
<lool> Now I don't remember what I wanted to test
<ogra> test ltsp on mobile, i just uploaded fixes :P
<lool> hehe
 * ogra wonders if he should add lpia as client arch :P
<persia> asac, 3.0.3+build1+nobinonly-0ubuntu0.8.04.1 is in hardy-security for lpia
<persia> ogra, Don't : there's too much that depends on hildon.  That's a Jaunty goal for -mobile.
<ogra> persia, hildon on ltsp ? 
<ogra> that might be funny :)
<persia> ogra, I think it would break stuff.  We need to fix lpia before we enable stuff (one of the reasons that I haven't made -desktop work)
<asac> persia: ok good
<persia> kubuntu could probably do lpia, but big chunks of GNOME are mangled.
<ogra> persia, well, it would add --arch lpia to ltsp-build-client (which currently supports ppc,i386 and amd64)
<ogra> which in turn just calls debootstrap and installs ltsp-client-core and ldm
<ogra> you could use nettops as thin clients 
<lool> asac: http://dell-mini.archive.canonical.com/
<persia> ogra, Except that I suspect stuff would break because of how things were hildonised.
<ogra> ldm surely isnt hildonised 
<ogra> and ltsp-client is only a bunch of scripts ... it wouldnt break the client side
<ogra> though the desktop you log in to might look intresting :)
<ogra> unless the server is i386 or amd64
<persia> Hrm.  Might work then.  Check debian/rules for your dependencies to make sure nothing is mangled.
<lool> amitk: uhoh aufs issues
<lool> amitk: I'm seeing this from a live USB on jax10
<lool> dpkg core dumps with odd assertions
<lool> and dmesg sees some aufs errors "unexpectedly many pseudo links"
<ogra> does apt-get update work ? 
<lool> Yes
<lool> It hangs in a dpkg --configure -a
<ogra> weird
<lool> I might have filled up the fs though
<ogra> ah
<persia> I think you filled up the fs.  Some of those devices weren't designed to handle actual data.
<ogra> or OSes :P
<lool> Note: I filled it, /then/ I made some space
<lool> ogra: Hey, suggestions on how to go forward for psb detections welcome
<lool> persia: or you too
<lool> i installed xserver-xorg-core ubuntu2
<lool> manually
<ogra> lool, after the podcast 
 * ogra is distracted
<lool> I have to disappear unfortunately
<lool> So I'm dumping stuff here
<ogra> ok
<lool> I'm booting of the ubuntu-mobile usb key
<lool> on startup, the failsafe vesa xorg propose to fix my display
<lool> I ctrl alt baskspace it
<lool> update xorg-core as noted above
<lool> then gdm restart doesn't come up, still the same failsafe; I guess this is only when you don't have a xorg.conf
<lool> If I sudo X -configure, it crashes
<lool> because of nsc_drv.so
<lool> (symbol issue)
<lool> I remove that file
<lool> Then -configure fails with "open /dev/fb0 no such file or directory"
<ogra> weird
<ogra> it shouldnt access fb0
<lool> That just configure
<lool> If I check the actual xorg.conf, it has no driver
<ogra> yeah, not run usually anyway
<ogra> remove it
<lool> I think it tries to load psb before trying vesa, but never tries vesa when psb isn't present
<ogra> and restart gdm
<ogra> just go without one completely but with the fixed xserver package
<lool> there's no mention of psb in xorg.conf, but I see "Failed to load module psb"
<ogra> hrm
<ogra> lool, does the last change fix it now ? 
<lool> Waiting for the build
<lool> I actually wanted to upload that last one to ppa first, but mistakingly uploaded to ubuntu
<ogra> well, the changelog entry makes sense
<lool> for some reason, the .debs don't make it to librarian or smth
<lool> Ok, really need to disappear
<ogra> ciao
<ogra> wohooo
 * ogra just successfully paired his freedomkeyboard with a new BT dongle
<ogra> geez, even the german keymap works right
<ogra> Ã¤Ã¶Ã¼
<ogra> Ã
<ogra> heh
<ogra> mterry, i pointed colin to your bug, he found it very valuable and will incude the fix before release he said
<mterry> ogra: Great.  Yeah, I saw his comments on it
<mterry> ogra: Thanks
<ogra> :)
<lool> ogra: last ubuntu4 fix did the trick, yeah!
<ogra> yay
<lool> Now I can point customer at it
<ogra> my BT works as well, got a new dongle
<ogra> one thats suposed to work in 100m range 
<ogra> if i could only get my headset working with alsa now, then i could keep my ekiga up permanently
<ogra> any news from amitk about the kernel upload ? 
<lool> ogra: nice
<lool> ogra: didn't see any news from amitk on kernel bits; I read he was working on it today
<lool> but you read that too
<amitk> lool: just back from dinner with friend (and some wine). I fixed it, but stopped to rebase to -7.11
<amitk> ogra: ^
<lool> amitk: good to know, thanks
<amitk> lool: tomorrow morning I should have something for upload.... I wanna test it a bit more.
<lool> Ok
<lool>  [ANNOUNCE] PyClutter 0.8.0
<lool> njpatel_away: ^^ :)
<ogra> amitk, i'm not sure when slangasek actually freezes the archive ,,,
<lool> ogra: it's tomorrow, when he wakes up, but he can also review the upload I guess
<ogra> yeah, i#m just scared about breaking uploads
<ogra> and re-uploads of them 
<ogra> this abi stuff was quite disappointing
<julien_> hello
<julien_> need help for installing Ubuntu MID Edition ? 
<julien_> I am trying to install it on ASUS R2h UMPC but when it is loading the first time for installing, I can see the Ubuntu loading bar and then I ve got a black screen
<julien_> I have read on the web same guy with the same problem but no one replied to his request
<lool> julien_: Does it work any better with i386 images, such as ubuntu-mobile.img?
<lool> julien_: It would be nice to get a Xorg.log to see what's happening when X starts up
<lool> since it's intel graphics, it should be decently supported
<julien_> i managed to run ubuntu normal edition on R2h
<julien_> it is working perfectly
<lool> julien_: aha
<lool> julien_: And can you switch to text console when booting from mid?
<julien_> where can i find  i386 img
<julien_> bc i have just found one unique image
<lool> julien_: topic
<lool> Topic for #ubuntu-mobile: [...] http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-mobile/intrepid/current http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-mid/intrepid/current/
<lool> try a newer daily
<julien_> bc i tried the ubuntu-mobile daily img
<julien_> by the way, i have a xorg.conf perfectly configurer for my R2h
<julien_> the thing is how can I replace it during the installation
<julien_> because I think it takes a wrong configuration for my screen but how can i change it ?
<lool> Sorry, I'm lost
<julien_> ok i restart
<lool> Do you speak French?
<julien_> oui
<lool> C'est une image rÃ©cente de ubuntu mid que tu as essayÃ©e ?
<julien_> oui celle d aujourd hui
<julien_> je pense que c est le drive de l ecran qui est mal reconnu
<lool> Ok ; c'est pas Ã©vident de dÃ©marrer en mode texte avec ubuntu mid
<julien_> car avec xubuntu j avais un ecran blanc quand j essaiais d installer
<julien_> j ai reussi a installer ubuntu mais je n y arrive plus maintenant car j ai tout le temps un ecran blanc 
<lool> Normalement, les paquets ubuntu mid et ubuntu mobile sont Ã  peu prÃ¨s les mÃªmes, les deux grosses diffÃ©rences sont l'archi (lpia versus i386) et l'interface utilisateur
<julien_> le truc est que j ai un xorg.conf que j ai trouvÃ© sur le web qui marche avec mon R2H
<julien_> vous n avez pas une version alternate ?
<lool> julien_: Ce qu'il faudrait essayer de faire, c'est lancer X -configure depuis une console et comparer avec ton xorg.conf qui marche
<lool> X -configure c'est ce qui gÃ©nÃ¨re notre xorg.conf au boot
<julien_> ok
<julien_> je crois que c est le driver qui doit changer
<lool> Pour booter en mode texte, tu peux essayer de passer "S" sur la ligne de commande syslinux
<lool> Ã§a devrait Ãªtre le mÃªme driver, mais peut Ãªtre qu'on a un bug
<julien_> par defaut il met intel alors qu il faut i810
<lool> i810 a Ã©tÃ© supprimÃ© dans intrepid
<lool> julien_: Tu arrives Ã  booter le daily ubuntu ?
<julien_> ah c pour ca que je n arrive plus a installer meme ubuntu
<lool> julien_: Oui
<julien_> ben je boote sur cle usb
<julien_> le logo ubuntu qui charge
<julien_> apparait puis apres plus rien
<lool> ogra: Someone with the same issue as cmpc: needs i810; when X selects intel, it doesn't work
<ogra> yeah
<lool> julien_: Le logo ubuntu n'est pas sous Xorg
<ogra> but i810 is gone now
<ogra> :(
<lool> ogra: We should bring this up with xorg folks
<ogra> well, someone would eed to port i810 to xorg 1.5
<ogra> i doubt that has happened
<lool> ogra: But intel is supposed to support i810
<ogra> though i see its a GMA 900, the intel driver should support that
<julien_> why is it gone?
<lool> julien_: Because support was moved into a single tree for all intel chips
<ogra> the intel driver is supposed to replace it completely
<julien_> do you want i send you my good xorg.conf?
<ogra> which apparently isnt the case
<julien_> i have read on the web to change intel into i810 to make it working
<ogra> in intrepid i810 is just a fake name for the intel driver now 
<julien_> so you think intel should work
<julien_> ok so maybe i have better to type S to get the shell and do a X configure ?
<lool> julien_: It's likely intel doesn't work since you get a black screen
<julien_> nope
<ogra> if you moe xorg.conf out of the way completely, do you get the black screen ? 
<lool> julien_: Would be nice to start in text mode and arrange to save a generated xorg.conf and Xorg.log in some place which you can access
<julien_> ok
<lool> ogra: debian/patches/141_improved_driver_selection.patch mentions some i810
<lool> this isn't in the debian package
<lool> +>------    } else {
<lool> +>------>-------driverList[0] = "intel";
<lool> +>------>-------driverList[1] = "i810";
<julien_> From http://ubuntu-r2h.blogspot.com/:  I tried also a daily build of Gutsy on 11-September-2007 (not a lucky date, is it?), but due to the fact Xorg used the "intel" driver instead of the "i810" one, the LCD became brighter and brighter until it was totally white and I had to switch off the UMPC
<lool> but it should still try intel first
<julien_> OK i am remaking a bootable usb key with MID
<julien_> and try that
<lool> julien_: You can use mobile
<lool> julien_: It's easier to go to text mode with mobile
<lool> julien_: Just pass "text" on the cmdline
<lool> julien_: Or use a regular ubuntu live cd if you can
<lool> julien_: This isn't specific to mobile at all I think
<julien_> i have ubuntu-mobile.img ? it is good?
<lool> Yeah that's fine
<julien_> yeah it is true it is linked with ubuntu in general
<julien_> ok i am trying
<julien_> please hold
<lool> julien_: So the best way to track your issue is to file a bug
<lool> julien_: Go to https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/+filebug
<lool> report it against xserver-xorg-video-intel
<lool> (in package:)
<lool> In Summary state that Asus R2H Intel GMA 900 doesn't come up with intrepid; used to work with i810
<lool> julien_: Then explain in further info what you explained here
<lool> attach the output of lspci -nnvv as a text file to the bug
<lool> julien_: and give us the bug URL
<ogra> and if possible attach Xorg.0.log
<lool> julien_: It would really nice to attach the xorg.conf generated by X -configure and Xorg.log
<lool> ogra: Do you have a recipe for that?  it's not trivial when your device actually turns black, and you're from a live key with no persistence
<lool> I'd guess one can setup a casper persistence, but it's not trivial
<james_w> it's currently broken as well
<ogra> dont we have that by default ? 
<lool> ogra: it's turned on, but you need some partition for it
<ogra> (persistance)
<ogra> ah, right
<james_w> you need to pass "persistence" when booting as well
<ogra> thats set by default
<james_w> but as I say, it's broken, fixed in casper bzr
<ogra> but wont work without a partition 
<james_w> ogra: you mean on the mobile images?
<ogra> yes
<ogra> we set that option in syslinux.cfg
<james_w> ah, ok
<julien__> sorry guys i think i was disconnected
<ogra> i didnt know casper is broken though
<julien__> i dont know what is wrong but wifi is dying sometimes
<julien__> where do i have to type text ?
<julien__> bc in boot line, it doesn't work?
<lool> julien__: what was the last line you got from us?
<julien__> [00:08] <julien_> i have ubuntu-mobile.img ? it is good?
<julien__> [00:08] <lool> Yeah that's fine
<julien__> sorry guys, but the rt73 driver doesnt seem to be stable
<lool> julien__: http://paste.ubuntu.com/58079/
<julien__> i have this on my syslinux.cfg :   append file=/cdrom/preseed/mobile.seed boot=casper initrd=initrd.img persistent quiet splash noprompt
<julien__> so persistence is activated right?
<ogra> julien_, but as james_w noted, it might be broken, waiting for a fix 
<julien__> so if it is working, i need just to type 'text' at boot prompt
<julien__> and i can run x configure
<julien__> ?
<ogra> that migh work
<ogra> try it
<julien__> bc right now, it is saying it can't find 'text' image
<james_w> yeah, "persistent" will currently fail to boot if you have the casper-rw file
<lool> julien__: You need to pass the full cmdline
<lool> julien__: text is just a flag on the cmdline
<lool> julien__: It's easier from ubuntu cdroms because you can edit it ;)
<lool> julien__: Check syslinux.cfg on the usb key
<julien_> still disconnected
<julien_> still disconnected ...
<julien_> sorry
<ogra> no, you are connected :)
<julien_> lol
<julien_> sorry what do i have to type in syslinux.cfg
<julien_> bc i am not an expert in syslinux.cfg at all
<julien_> (i was disconnected from [00:32] to [00:38]
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-10-16
<lool> 'night
<ogra> nigh
<lool> hi
<lool> ogra: I think you have a far better idea than me of touchscreen and calibration; do you think there's still things to track/rescue in 163850?
<crevette> hello
 * lool is happy to report that the ubuntu-mid daily from today boots fine on jax10 now
<persia> Excellent!  Does it install with the storage split, or do we need to trim the seeds?
<lool> persia: I'm not sure I'm ready to install just yet; would like to finish backup/restore of the OS procs before moving on
<lool> I wrote half of it
<lool> persia: It's likely that the installer wont be very usable though
<lool> the res is too low
<lool> The first step screen is already garbled
<lool> (quit/back/forward overlaps "Please choose")
<persia> Right.  The resolution issues.
 * persia registers a spec
<lool> surprisingly, the map screen is more usable than on the CB
<lool> On CB, the display is extremely slow
<lool> Which makes using the map almost impossible
<lool> persia: I'm pleasantly surprized as the steps after step 1 are much more usable
<lool> partitionner should be in a scrolled window I'm afraid
<lool> I can only read up to "Manual"
<lool> StevenK: scrollwheel doesn't work in kourou   :-P
<StevenK> I don't care :-P
<persia> lool, file a bug.  I can confirm it doesn't work with synaptics either.
<lool> persia: It might be that the fonts are too big; cgregan raised this issue more than once
<persia> lool, No, it's that the interface is designed in such a way as it's not expected to work at 640x480, and such a small resolution isn't a target for the release team.
<persia> That's why I'm registering a spec for a new frontend.  We just need some glade and a bit of glue, but it's beyond me.
<lool> persia: well I think both are true, but the fonts are too big aand waste space
<persia> lool, They aren't too big for me on the D4.  Blame your hardware.
<persia> (or get davidz's DPI-independence patches merged faster)
<lool> persia: Yeah, the issue is that they are too big at this res
<persia> lool, Or the UI needs stretching.
 * persia goes back to registering the spec
<lool> Well text really looks stupidly big
<lool> pff stupid mass rename is a dialog
<persia> lool, Looking too big on your hardware is different than being too big.  That said, perhaps the target DPI could be adjusted : there's not much as dense as the D4.
<persia> lool, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/low-res-ubiquity-frontend
<lool> thanks
<lool> persia: Well I guess the fonts size should be adapter to whatever dpi is being used
<lool> or specified in an absolute metric
<lool> midbrowser is unusable as the address bar is shrinked to 0 pixels
<persia> lool, Yeah.  The problem needs fixing.  I'd personally rather have stuff get info from xrandr and use that to take decisions about appropriate font size and the like.  We can add quirks for broken things.
<lool> but fonts look ok in midbrowser :-)
<persia> Heh.  My network doesn't work, so I haven't done much testing of midbrowser.  I suspect the fonts will be "too small" on my device (although I'm unlikely to complain, as I like small fonts).
<lool> network doesn't work here either
<lool> I'm using an ethernet usb dongle which works
<lool> argh, need to grab coffee real quick
<ogra> mm, coffeee
<persia> Team Meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 5 minutes
<amitk> ogra: new lpia kernel in usual location -4.7
<ogra> amitk, ok
 * ogra wonders how we get that past the release managers
<persia> bribery?
<ogra> heh
<amitk> if beer doesn't work, bodily harm surely will :)
<ian_brasil> fonts seem ok on midbrowser...it is just not very usable without access to any settings or the ability to install any plugins
<persia> ian_brasil, Well, for my last MID, I used NetFront, so it's not that much feature loss for me.  That said, yes, it could get *lots* better.
 * ogra might remap the menu key on the Q1 at least
<persia> ian_brasil, The Mozilla team has packaged fennec, and I think it might get some testing as a replacement for the next release (although I'm not sure it will be default).
 * ogra still fails to find a package
<ian_brasil> right..we do some dev stuff with fennec here and one of the guys was asking about getting it on ubuntu..i will poke him when i arrive at work
<persia> ian_brasil, It came too late for intrepid, but it's probably one of the first uploads for Jaunty.
<ian_brasil> sweet
<persia> I think it's in a PPA too, although I forget which.  You might check the mozillateam ppa.
<amitk> ogra: what will it take to make the circular directional key on Q1 to behave like standard arrow keys?
<ogra> amitk, the jystick already does that
<ogra> *joystick
<ogra> just switch to joystick mode
<ogra> it would take a patch to hal-info 
<ogra> nothing we can get in anymore for intreid though
<ogra> *intrepid
<amitk> ogra: joystick is not as intuitive as the arrow keys
<ogra> amitk, well, its at least not different to hardy, it uses exatly the same keycodes
<ogra> i agree that it can be improved, but the changes went upstream already, we wont get a new upstream version before release
<ogra> i would have preferred keeping it as a patch, but pitti insisted 
<ogra> hmm, no answer from pitti about linux-lpia
<persia> I just got timidity accepted, so people are processing the queue.
<ogra> but thats univers, no ?
<persia> Still needs release-team to push it, they just don't check very carefully.
<persia> From the 23rd, release-team will verify it has MOTU Release ACK before pushing.
<ogra> still, linux-lpia is main
<persia> Yes.  This just means it's waiting for a member of the release team to review it carefully.
<lool> http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS7635920803.html
<ogra> heh
<ogra> e17
<persia> There was someone talking about doing eubuntu in -installer last week.  Could be interesting to do eubuntu-mobile if that happens.
 * ogra will never do that ... 
<ogra> at least never under that name
<persia> Yeah, the name leaves something to be desired :)
<ogra> beyond that, isnt e17 based on hurd ? 
<ogra> at least if it comes to release schedule 
<ogra> "ready next year" or some such ...
<persia> No.  e17 has never claimed to have a release date, or even a release schedule.
<persia> At one point, it was specifically declared that e17 was not working towards release, and was instead a base of work for use in other projects.
<persia> Anyway, there are are snapshots that are known to work together which are somewhat like other projects releases.
<ogra> well, nothing i want to get involved in 
<ogra> <-- no enlightenment fan as you might have guessed by now
<persia> That's fine.  Someone else can do it.
<ogra> we dont even have it packaged, do we ?
<persia> I *really* like enlightenment, but haven't used it in a few years.
<persia> We do.
<ogra> 17 ?
 * ogra only sees 16 and some libs from 17
<persia> At least parts of it.
<ogra> libeet1 only actually
<ogra> funny that apt-cache search enlightenment brings up blackbox
<amitk> ogra: lpia kernel almost done...
<amitk> done
<amitk> ogra: want to upload lrm?
<ogra> amitk, will do
 * lool 'night
<ian_brasil> any idea how to enable the alt-F2 wireless combo on eeepc?
 * ogra hasnt touched an eee ...
<ogra> get me the HW and i'll make it work ;)
 * ian_brasil quickly knocks up a "donations" web site  to buy eeepc device
<ian_brasil> ogra: have you seen this http://www.moblin.org/downloads/super-read-ahead-002 and ideas for using it on ubuntu mobile?
<ian_brasil> what do you think of sreadahead?
<ogra> well, i'm not sure we will even keep readahead, we might switch over to prefetch, afaik that doesnt go well with readahead
<rbelem> http://lkml.org/lkml/2008/10/10/411
<ogra> we might also compile the most used module in the kernel in jaunty
<ogra> there are a lot of sessions planned at UDS about boot seedup
<ogra> *speedup
<ogra> things like sreadahead, prefetch and other stuff will get close examination there
<ogra> i personaly would like to get rid of modprobe in initramfs in favour of pregenerated modue lists that get pulled in via insmod
<ogra> *module
<rbelem> ogra, where can I get prefetch?
<ian_brasil> that sounds very interesting
<ogra> rbelem, i think its a kernel patch developed as GSoC project
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/Prefetch
<rbelem> nice!!!
<ogra> that spec will surely get a new review for jaunty
<rbelem> ogra, how about the hack to init? Upstart needs modification?
<rbelem> the intel hack
<rbelem> :-)
 * ian_brasil ducks
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-10-17
<circinae> hi everyone
<circinae> does ubuntu mobile works on HTC Magician?
<persia> circinae, Which processor does the HTC Magician use?
<circinae> it's Intel PXA272
<circinae> 416MHz
<persia> Ah, then no.  There are no ARM buildds on launchpad, so officially, Ubuntu doesn't work on ARM.
<persia> You could try something from the rebuild project at mojo.handhelds.org, but I know the "ubuntu-mobile" package for 8.04 doesn't quite work right, so you might have to wait (or help with) the rebuild for 8.10 once it is released.
<circinae> oh..
<circinae> ok 10x )
<smp4488> how would i go about skinning rhythumbox to embed it into mobile?
<apachelogger> ahoy
<persia> apachelogger, So, which HW do you have?
<apachelogger> none, I am proposing mobile stuff for Jaunty at today's kubuntu meeting
<apachelogger> the KDE desktopshell is getting a containment for MID with KDE 4.2 (i.e. what is shipped with jaunty)
<persia> apachelogger, OK.  I'd recommend using the following naming scheme : kubuntu-mid if you base something off Qtopia (or it's decendants), and ubuntu-mobile if you just shrink Kubuntu and add some WM tweaks.
<ogra> define MID :)
<persia> As a long-time Qtopia user, I'd love to see a kubuntu-mid package based on Qtopia.
<apachelogger> ogra: e.g. Nokia's N810
<ogra> apachelogger, well, thats a device that might actually be acceptable for both :)
<apachelogger> nifty :D
<ogra> despite the fact that we dont support the architecture indeed
<persia> Well, assuming LP grows some ARM buildds.  Until then, we're limited to the current architectures.
<apachelogger> ncommander wanted to get that started, IIRC he even has access to Riddell's N810
<persia> There are a few people working on ARM Ubuntu.  I think the largest cluster is at mojo.handhelds.org
 * ogra has a n800 as well and has played with debian on it
<ogra> resembling the current ubuntu-mobile desktop, its very usable beyond the fact that only 50% of the HW works
<ogra> (no sound, no compsite support wlan only through the proprietary nokia driver etc)
<ogra> (oh, and no power management at all)
<ogra> but the ui works nicely on it
<apachelogger> :)
<ogra> and i imagine the mid ui would work as nicely 
<ogra> but we'll have to wait for the buildd infrastructure and kernel builds first before we can seriously start something
<persia> Should do : the default UI for the n8x0 is hildon-based.
<ogra> as long as thats not there you will only end up with something like mojo for the moment
<persia> Or you can get intel-based devices to fiddle and test the UI.
<ogra> right
<ogra> which is what we do
<persia> apachelogger, Oh.  And there's a typo in my naming : *k*ubuntu-mobile for just tweaking :)
 * apachelogger was already wondering :P
<persia> Sorry.  Just missed a key (it would be more convenient to have gnome be gubuntu sometimes)
<persia> So for the KDE 4.2 "mobile" desktop shell, "kubuntu-mobile" would be the sensible meta-package, and match what ogra did to GNOME.
<persia> "kubuntu-mid" would be something based on Qtopia or similar efforts.  Essentially looking at the problem from two sides : either shrink the standard desktop, or enhance the embedded solution.
<apachelogger> sounds sensible
<persia> apachelogger, So I'm guessing "kubuntu-mobile" is the likely first set of stuff?  Any idea if anyone would be working on "kubuntu-mid"?
<apachelogger> persia: we have a meeting in #kubuntu-devel at 18 UTC, mobile/mid is going to be a topic
<persia> I'm in UTC+9.  Not sure if I can make it, but I'll try.
 * apachelogger thinks kubuntu-mobile should be pretty easy to do, since the desktop shell automagically changes it containments based on the resolution
<apachelogger> so it is just a matter of refining the kubuntu defaults and selecting sensible default packages
<persia> I've been dreaming of switching my Qtopia box to kubuntu-mid for years.
<persia> For -mobile, it should be fairly easy.  The big difference in ubuntu-mobile vs. ubuntu-desktop is the use of devilspie to get full-screen windows.  I presume there's something equivalent for KDE?
<apachelogger> I think we can actually archive this by setting one option in kwin
<persia> That's even better.  I presume you can see that somehow with a kubuntu-mobile-default-settings package?
<persia> s/see/seed/
<apachelogger> yes, I guess we could even make kubuntu-mobile-default-settings inherit from kubuntu-default-settings
<ogra> the thing with mobile is that you need to make sure the theme is finger usable 
<ogra> thats the main work i have done beyond changing the panel layout
<persia> Yeah, but that's just a matter of adjusting the theme, which should also be easy.
<ogra> well, i dont know how that kde shell thingie works
<persia> Be nice to have Kubuntu available for all the various little stuff out there.
<ogra> i.e. if you have 60% of your screen scattered with scrollbars that wont be any fun
<ogra> i saw kde adding scrollbars for every element in the past if it didnt fit
<ogra> so you end up with a scrollbar onion ;)
<ogra> and a little app dot in the middle
<apachelogger> I think there are people who would like that as well ;-)
<ogra> such stuff needs to be workable 
<apachelogger> *nod*
<persia> There are, but surely we can set some sensible defaults.  My Zaurus (Qtopia) only adds scrollbars where it's useful.
<apachelogger> but since all the KDE hackers got n810 devices I guess that is not going to be much of a problem ;-)
<apachelogger> well, s/all/a lot/g
<persia> I still think something Qtopia based is better for the n810, but that's probably just because I'm so used to it.
<apachelogger> ogra, persia: mockup of a proposed containment http://www.notmart.org/misc/plasma-mid.png the lead plasma developer is currently not around, so I don't know if that is the actual targeted result 
<persia> apachelogger, That looks lovely.  I want to try it now.
<persia> I'm still partial to Qtopia, but some of my newer HW doesn't really need that light a footprint, and would be more impressive with soemthing like that.
<apachelogger> well, Qt 4.5 (due in februrary IIRC) will have a lighter foortprint as well ;-)
<apachelogger> partially because of the plasma-mid stuff
<persia> Will that also make Kubuntu Desktop lighter and faster?
<apachelogger> yes
<persia> Cool!
<apachelogger> I have been told plasma in KDE trunk is already a lot faster than in KDE 4.1.2
<apachelogger> ...without Qt 4.5...
<persia> That's excellent news.  My Qtopia box is 400MHz, 64MB RAM, 4G disk.  For early versions of KDE, that would be fine for the entire desktop, but not in the interim.  Getting back towards something smaller is a wonderful thing.
<crevette> hello there
<crevette> hey persia
<persia> hey crevette 
<emgent> hello
<persia> hey emgent 
<emgent> heya persia :)
<persia> emgent, Did you happen to try Ubuntu Mobile on your flybook?
<emgent> will do :)
<persia> emgent, Well, only if you want :)
<emgent> of course! this week i will try to test it :)
<emgent> check your mail in monday
<persia> Or just comment here.
<emgent> okkay
<persia> (unless I'm expecting something else in my mail)
<lool> Is there a bug on the installability issues of lpia kernels?
<StevenK> The kernel itself can be installed
<StevenK> The headers can't
 * emgent reading UM docs
<persia> The makes the package set an issue, and probably breaks image builds.
<emgent> ah nice.
<StevenK> I suspect the installer is only fatality, currently
<persia> Probably, but I get bothered by that :p
<LjL> persia, uhm you're a qtopia user? i used OPIE a long time ago, and i'd still like using it... but last time i checked, it was such a mess, with no Debian packages of it in the repositories anymore, and legal disputes that wouldn't even let me know what site i should look at. do you know of a reasonably easy way to get an OPIE or Qtopia system running on i386?
<persia> LjL, Not offhand, but I understand that the licensing is getting easier for Qtopia (dunno about opie).
<persia> LjL, The thing is to concentrate on the individual applications, rather than the collections.
<ogra> as maemo does 
<ogra> they wont rebase ther desktop, but have the qtopia stack by default now, so qt devs can write apps as well
<persia> Well, there's plenty of Qtopia projects out there, and lots of individual upstreams.  It's just a matter of someone wanting it enough to put it together.
<persia> having appropriate form-factor hardware available that can run Ubuntu makes this an achievable project, whereas before it was mostly a waste of time.
<LjL> dunno, i think there's plenty of old, low-resolution hardware that could benefit a lot from Qtopia or OPIE for users with no particularly great needs
<LjL> i've installed Ubuntu on my mother's 800MHz with 128Mb, and it's honestly plain ridiculous
<StevenK> I'd suggest Xubuntu for that use case
<LjL> StevenK: i tend to disagree about that. it's not like the panel and desktop take up so much memory - i mean yes they do, but it's mostly just because of shared libraries that other programs will need *anyway*
<LjL> so what use is Xubuntu unless you avoid using any GNOME or KDE programs on it like the plague
<LjL> and if you avoid using them, you end up with an environment that's hardly suited for an average computer user
<LjL> Qtopia/OPIE, on the other hand, was a relatively well-refined PDA-like environment with good, friendly (though often extremely simple) software available
<LjL> at least it was like this last time i checked, which was years ago
<persia> Hasn't changed that much.
<LjL> what has changed is that there aren't Debian packages of it anymore
<LjL> persia: also, the few screenshots i managed to find of current... OPIE? OPIE2? Qtopia? who knows with all this mess - looked very much geared to cellphones, contrary to what it used to be when PDA were the norm
<persia> LjL, That's just what people are using for demo hardware, really.  No reason it shouldn't work for larger environments.
<LjL> persia: no, but the interface really looked cellphone-like, with two soft-buttons on the bottom on the screen, things like that
<LjL> of course that might all be very easily changeable, i just don't know since i couldn't manage to get anything installed
<persia> It's pretty flexible.
<crevette> bluetooth guy, obex-data-server 0.4 is out
<crevette> guys
<persia> crevette, intrepid is frozen.  Prepare it in a PPA, and we can push it to Jaunty in three or four weeks.
<crevette> yeah
<crevette> persia: API has changed, so no hurry
<crevette> we need to wait that application have migrated
<persia> Ah.  Yeah.  Of course, helping the applications migrate is probably a good thing, but I think there's plenty of bugs to hit in the next couple weeks before takling that.
<NanoRobot> Hello, everyone. I spent some hours with trying to run video at via vx700 chip, but had no success. Can anybody try to help ?
<persia> Which architecture?  Which flavour?
<persia> Which video driver?
<NanoRobot> persia: Hello) I've already talked to you several days ago ! SO, my device is UMPC it has a thuchscreen and LCD (1024x600).Proc: via c7,  Video(chipset): VX700. I had alredy installed UBUNTU-MOBILE on it with openChrom driver. Problem is : I can't run X on LCD.
<NanoRobot> but X works ok on external monitor !
<persia> That's exceedingly annoying, but unfortunately I don't have any good suggestions.  This is the oqo2?
<NanoRobot> Don't know what is ogo2 .
<persia> Oh, then that was someone eise with the c7 and openchrome :)
<NanoRobot> Find oqo2 in google. No this is not oqo 2, but my device looks like oqo2 )
<persia> Hardware is similar too, but I still don't know why the LCD doesn't work.
<NanoRobot> i tried to install ubuntu , so it has the same problem.- "Unable to run X on LCD, Terminal works OK"
<persia> Not surprising.  The differences between Ubuntu Mobile and Ubuntu Desktop are essentially cosmetic : nothing that would affect display support.
<NanoRobot> I had also tried to install openSUSE 10.3 (with gnome 2.2)- and LCD works on it by default with 800x600 resolution. Maybe I should copy something like xorg.conf from there ? 
<persia> Intrepid doesn't generally use xorg.conf, but you could try that.
<NanoRobot> Hello again ) Had connection problem )
<persia> You didn't miss anything :)
<NanoRobot> ok. Thank you !
 * lool waves and goes for dinner, might or not might be back tonight
<NanoRobot> Can somebody say me something about VESA framebuffer ? Thanks in advance !
<persia> NanoRobot, It recently changed from uvesafb to vesafb, and shouldn't be required for most installs.
<NanoRobot> I 've just install openSUSE 10.3 (on this version i can see something on my LCD , instead of black screen on ubuntu-mobile) and look at harware information. So, there are VESA framebuffer (VIA CX700) and Display (CX700 M2 UniChrome PRO 2 Graphics). On my ubuntu installation I can't find anything about VESA, should it be installed by default ?
<persia> It should be available by default, I'm not sure if it's installed.  In the recently concluded release meeting, it was suggested that most people wouldn't have any reason to use it, although you might be one who does (I don't know).
<NanoRobot> I think that i don't need it, but i am not able to swich it off , i have not got this option in bios and i down't know how to do it by other way.
<NanoRobot> -I found other ways on wiki.ubuntu. Thank you :)
<NanoRobot> If i disable it, should it help ubuntu to boot not in balck screen ?
<persia> It might.  It depends on how the device handles multiple things drawing to the framebuffer, but I'm really not familiar with the hardware.
<NanoRobot> Ok, I will try. Hardware.. But I had a lot of help from you. Thanks !
<blahblahx> i installed the ubuntu mobile package in hardy, hoping it would give me an ubuntu session. instead, it just installed the packages. what can i do to get an ubuntu mobile session in my xubuntu install?
<persia> blahblahx, The ubuntu mobile released in hardy was essentially a work-in-progress, and certainly isn't suitable for use.
<persia> Your choices are basically to use the Ubuntu MID Hardy installer (which reformats the hard drive without prompt or notification), or use intrepid.
<persia> For intrepid, I believe you can cross-grade to Ubuntu Mobile (haven't tested this), but you'd want to reinstall for Ubuntu MID (nice GUI installer).
<persia> Mind you, intrepid is still in beta, so there are bugs.
<blahblahx> persia: i know its in early stages, but theres no way to get an ubuntu mobile session on a main ubuntu machine?
<NanoRobot> tried to disable VESA and to enable it, - had no success. Device keeps to load in balck screen. :(
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-10-18
<persia> blahblahx: Not for 8.04.  Should be doable for 8.10.
<ogra> well, it will change your complete defaults as long as ubuntu-mobile-default-settings is installed
<ogra> (in 8,10)
<persia> Yeah, but it's 8.10.  Installing ubuntu-mobile in hardy is an exercise in frustration, more than anything else.
<ogra> yeah
<smp4488> anyone up?
<smp4488> how would i go about embedding rythmbox into a custom interface
<maniheer> !hi
<ubottu> Hi! Welcome to #ubuntu-mobile!
<maniheer> does anyone know if ubuntu mobile would work on a mio 269?
<persia> maniheer, what's the specs?
<maniheer> dunno
<maniheer> got it yesterday
<maniheer> :P
<maniheer> and google ain't helping
<persia> OK.  Do you know which processor it uses?  What OS is on it now?
<maniheer> its on WinCE
<maniheer> no idea about processer
<maniheer> i think 300mhz
<maniheer> and 2.5 GB
<persia> OK.  I found http://www.mio-tech.be/en/gps-navigation-device-Mio-269-plus-specifications.htm
<maniheer> thats all I know
<maniheer> thats the one
<persia> Launchpad doesn't have any ARM buildds, so Ubuntu can't support ARM, so it won't work.  You might try the rebuild from mojo.handhelds.org
<maniheer> errrm
<maniheer> wats ARM?
<persia> WIth that low a resolution, I'd recommend looking for something different anyway : at QVGA, you want a very specialised interface.
<persia> www.arm.com : it's a processor architecture.
<maniheer> ohhh
<maniheer> but I dont like what they've got preinstalled
<maniheer> its ****
<maniheer> i'd rather use google maps
<persia> You'll probably either have to do something custom, or look for a embedded community that supports QVGA.
<persia> Currently, Ubuntu supports down to 800x600, and there's work to get that down to 640x480, but I've not heard of anything that was known to work at 320x240, and Ubuntu Embedded has been quiet for a while.
<maniheer> so i'm stuck
<maniheer> time to go reinstall WinCE
<maniheer> bye
<maniheer> and thnx
<smp4488> im trying to write a c program to control rythmbox
<smp4488> do i need to use the dbus?
<persia> smp4488, For rhythmbox customisation, you probably want a rhythmbox-specific channel.  Here we might be able to help you with a variant hildon interface if you wanted that (although I'm not sure how helpful we could be).
<smp4488> i basically want an overlay to make a media player
<smp4488> and then have rhythmbox running in the background
<persia> That sounds overly complex.  I'd suggest either building a hildon interface for rhythmbox, or a dfferent gstreamer-based music player (there are a few in the repos).
<smp4488> how would i go about building an interface?
<persia> I'm entirely the wrong person to answer that, but glade seems popular.
<smp4488> see thats what i was thinking and using python to code the buttons to do simple things like forward, play, and back
<persia> Makes sense.  If you're going to use rhythmbox, I'd recommend doing it inside the rhythmbox code as an extended UI.  If you want to do it in python, I'd suggest something like decibel as a base.
<smp4488> so what do you think
<persia> I think that having something better than totem for playing audio would be nice.  Which way you do it is up to you.
<smp4488> i was thinking or embedding rhythmbox
<smp4488> i dont know if you have ever heard of roadrunner for windows
<smp4488> it uses winamp for its functions
<smp4488> it hides winamp but you can use most of its functions inside of the "skin"
<persia> Right.  That doesn't sound to be like a lightweight solution.  rhythmbox is basically a library manager wrapped around gstreamer with plugin support.
<persia> That's why I pointed you at decibel if you want to do it in python : creating a decibel-hildon package as a separately built binary in the install process should be fairly easy (take a look at update-manager vs. update-manager-hildon for an example of how to do this).
<persia> Then you can tweak the interface there, take advantage of the smaller backend (with mostly the same technologies as rhythmbox).
<persia> If you want to do it in rhythmbox, I'd suggest the same: building an alternate frontend within rythymbox, rather than a wrapper, but that's not python.
<smp4488> true
<smp4488> i was wanting library and playlist functions thats why i thought rhythmbox
<persia> Right : I'm just suggesting that rather than trying to embed the whole app, you extend it internal to the code.
<persia> Or if you want to use python, you select one of the music players already written in python, and extend that.
<smp4488> makes sense
<persia> Building a wrapper usually takes more disk space, memory, and processing power, and those are precisely the things that are often lacking in smaller devices.
<smp4488> decibel looks good
<smp4488> so then instead of adding on top i take the existing interface and modify it
<persia> So just extend the interface to fit inside the hildon interface, and then tweak to meet your needs.  Should be fairly straightforward.
<smp4488> now i just have to learn python. i know c# but thats about it
<persia> If you're careful about how you write the code, you should be able to adjust the packaging to have decibel, decibel-common, and decibel-hildon.
<smp4488> lol
<persia> heh.  Well, at least you have a python project :)  If you want to learn GTK instead, you could do the same thing with rhythmbox.
<smp4488> so now it comes time to choose a path
<smp4488> i want to learn gtk but i dont see it as a traditional language
<persia> It's C : probably the most traditional language for unix programming.
<smp4488> yea but it is low level
<persia> Mind you, the GTK libraries encourage writing C in a way that is a little different from other people.
<persia> It's not really that low-level when you're just gluing GTK, GNOME, GIO, and gstreamer.
<persia> C can do low-level, but it can also do high-level.
<smp4488> i need to learn a few
<smp4488> so gtk is just a library for c?
<persia> Yep, as are the others I mentioned.
<persia> All of them also have python bindings.
<persia> You'd be using the same libraries for either language : it's just a matter of which language you want to use to program.
<smp4488> that makes more sense
<smp4488> time to take a dive in a direction
<smp4488> what do you prefer?
<persia> C, but that's because I learned C a very long time ago (well before python was ever imagined).  I'd recommend picking whichever seems more common for the sorts of applications you want to modify.
<smp4488> im coming from c# so what do you think?
<persia> I can't say.  I don't know C#  From the name, it might be like C, but I have heard it's fairly different.
<persia> Perhaps you'd do best to read some C code and some Python code, and see which you find easier to understand.
<smp4488> alright we will see what happens
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-10-19
<PandaUnix> How can I install either Ubuntu Mobile or Ubuntu MID on my device?
<cypherdelic> Anyone familar with xserver-xorg-input-evdev or-joystick detecting gamepads?
<Celtiore> hi
<Celtiore> the last version ofmobile edition start correctly the video on aigo mid p 8860, thanks you very much
<Celtiore> how can i see,check the bluetooth hardware on it ? 
<[FR-ESTEL]Irania> hello :) *faq answered me* thanks for the topic owner :)
<stgraber> Hey guys, I know it's weekend but I really need you to be update: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Cases
<stgraber> with the testcases for Ubuntu Mobile and Ubuntu MID (see Mythbuntu for example how to do that)
<ogra> yeah, i'll go over the ubuntu-mobile one tomorrow
<ogra> though it shouldnt actually differ much from -desktop since its identical, only the ui is different
<ogra> and the touchscreen centric stuff indeed
<stgraber> I'll likely ask the sysadmins to do the change tomorrow morning (my time), so mid-afternoon (european time)
<ogra> ok, i should manage that
<ogra> not sure about -mid though
<ogra> i didnt do much with it this release
<stgraber> persia said he'd do it last week but he probably forgot and didn't answer my pings yesterday (weekend ...)
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> well, its 7am in japan so i wouldnt expect much yet
<stgraber> yeah, my plan was to ping him when I go to bed (12am his time)
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-10-12
<indus> hi
<indus> where can i download images for ume?
<lool> indus: We don't really support that anymore
<lool> You can grab very old images if you like though
<lool> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/jaunty/release/ has the jaunty lpia MID image
<lool> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/intrepid/release/ has the intrepid i386 UMPC image
<lool> and http://releases.ubuntu.com/intrepid/ has the intrepid lpia MID image
<indus> lool: why? what happened to it? project is dead?
<lool> Well we don't focus on it at least
<lool> But I guess you could call the MID/UMPC images dead at this point, until resurrected
<indus> then what is the new thing? actually i got a teaching request for ubuntu mobile along with hildon desktop etc
<indus> what other offering from ubuntu will focus on MID'
<indus> lool: what othre offering fromn ubuntu will focus on MID?
<lool> indus: Well we don't a very good MID image right now; the hildon packages are still in the repo, albeit I guess in a relatively ugly shape
<indus> lool: hmm , but the hildon project from gnome seems active?
<lool> Hmm I don't think it's that active at GNOME, no
<indus> is it possible to resurrect it ? maybe i could help
<indus> and last question? what are all of you doing in here if the project is not active
<JamieBennett> mobile != mid
<indus> JamieBennett:yes ,
<indus> JamieBennett: mobile internet  device, Is android, moblin etc similar projects to ubuntu mobile?
<JamieBennett> ubuntu-mobile is for all flavours of Ubuntu on a mobile platform, netbooks are also mobile don't forget.
<JamieBennett> That being said, so are phones, laptops e.t.c.
<indus> JamieBennett: so did canonical shift focus to UNR now since it does all
<JamieBennett> indus: UNR is *one* of the focal points for Canonical and it is an important project. 
<indus> so what do you suggest?  i have a request from someone for training on ubuntu mobile, hildon desktop along with development environment 
<indus> JamieBennett: development on ubuntu mobile using python etc
<JamieBennett> indus: Resurrecting the MID flavour is probably out of the scope of your project then. If you really *must* have hildon then I would suggest you look at the Maemo project.
<indus> JamieBennett: this room has 38 users. What is the reason for this?
<JamieBennett> indus: As I said, there are flavours of Ubuntu (UNR in particular) that these people are probably interested in.
<indus> JamieBennett: ok cool
<indus> JamieBennett: iam checking out maemo, also moblin
<indus> JamieBennett: thank you
<JamieBennett> indus: no problem
<thekorn> hi, should switching to VT by pressing CTRL-ALT-F... work on UNR (karmic)?
<lool> thekorn: Yes
<thekorn> hmm, ok. after a restart switching to VT works again
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-10-13
<pibe86> hello guys
<plars> njpatel: ping
<njpatel> plars: hey
<plars> njpatel: was wondering if you had seen https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/netbook-launcher/+bug/445829
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 445829 in netbook-launcher "Text on "Games" menu it outside of window" [Medium,Triaged]
<plars> njpatel: not anything earth-shattering, but it is ugly
<njpatel> plars: yeah I've seen that, it's on my list. Seems like a calculation error in the iconview
<plars> njpatel: moreso, I was interested in what you though about whether those were actually two separate problems - the text at the bottom of games category, vs some of the other issues shown in screenshots there
<njpatel> plars: other issues?
<plars> the other issue seems a bit more like what I've seen in bug 435805
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 435805 in netbook-remix-launcher "Icons overlap for categories with >= 9 rows" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/435805
<njpatel> plars: right, they both stem from the same issue
<plars> ok
<njpatel> I'm not sure what's going on, the code hasn't changed in the iconview, but this effect started a couple of weeks back :/
<JamieBennett> njpatel: Sorry to jump in but I also filed bug 448109 and bug 447886 against UNR
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 448109 in netbook-launcher "Cannot add to panel" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/448109
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 447886 in netbook-launcher "On startup Gnome Keyring asks for password in the background" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/447886
<JamieBennett> plars: have you seen the above bugs in your testing too?
<plars> JamieBennett: will take a look
<plars> JamieBennett: for the keyring one, this is after installing it and rebooting?
<JamieBennett> plars: Yes. Install with no net connection which doesn't set up gnome-keyring properly it seems.
<plars> JamieBennett: ah, I'll have to try that
<ogra> right
<ogra> thats an ancient known bug
<plars> JamieBennett: although... today's image isn't looking to good
<ogra> you need to use your login PW for the keyring and it will never bother you again
<plars> sounds vaguely familiar from jaunty, but for some reason I thought it had been fixed
<ogra> (or no PW at all)
<JamieBennett> ogra: but the dialogue box in the background isn't though :)
<JamieBennett> (because of it)
<ogra> definately not :)
<JamieBennett> ogra: Bothers me ever time from then on
<JamieBennett> every
<ogra> but that might be a WM issue (or a flag the app doesnt set for the WM)
<ogra> (being in the bg)
<JamieBennett> Every reboot I need to enter the password on UNR
<ogra> did you use the same PW as your login one ? 
<ogra> (or no PW at all for the keyring)
<JamieBennett> same password
<plars> JamieBennett: is this similar to what you are seeing there? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-keyring/+bug/415320
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 415320 in gnome-keyring "unlock keyring "steals" focus (no cursor in overlying window)" [Low,New]
<JamieBennett> plars: no. What happens is you boot to the desktop and no dialogue appears although network-manager is asking you for a password. A small padlock icon is at the top right of the screen which when pressed brings up the dialogue box.
<JamieBennett> soory top left
<JamieBennett> sorry :)
<plars> JamieBennett: oh, so it is network manager or gnome-keyring asking for the password?
<plars> in the bug you had said gnome keyring
<JamieBennett> network-manager instigates it but let me see the exact cause again, one moment
<plars> and this one sounds very similar, with gnome-keyring not coming to the forground when prompting for authentication
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> it very likely starts before the launcher comes up ... then the launcher covers it at the point where the WM starts
<ogra> sounds like arace
<ogra> *a race
<JamieBennett> NetworkManager Applet wants access to the default keyring but its locked message (Unlock Keyring)
<ogra> you could move the gnome-keyring-daemon binary to gnome-keyring-daemon.bak and write a wrapper script that hands over the opts and sleeps for 10 secs before 
<ogra> and see if it then comes up at the front
<JamieBennett> 448109 is a bit of a bummer unless I'm missing something. I managed to delete the 'user session menu applet' from the top right hand corner and now I have to either sudo shutdown or press the power button to shut down :(
<plars> JamieBennett: on the other one, I suspect it's just really stinking hard to put anything there, due to little/no space between the applets
<plars> JamieBennett: it's actually possible to do this though
<ogra> well, the applets should have no remove option :)
<plars> JamieBennett: although, it is perhaps not as straightforward as it should be
<ogra> and i'm pretty sure i submitted a patch to lock the panel for hardy
<plars> JamieBennett: for instance, you can unlock the indicator applet and move it over
<JamieBennett> plars: right clicking on the space doesn't bring up a 'add to panel' option unless its in a 1x1 pixel somewhere hiding.
<ogra> so you cant remove stuff
<ogra> not sure where that went though
<plars> JamieBennett: that will open up a blank area where you can click and add applets
<plars> ogra: protecting the users from themselves are we? :)
<ogra> plars, well, that was actually added for classmate 
<JamieBennett> plars: I have a huge area that is blank but still no add to panel (again unless its in a very specific place)
<ogra> which ran on 800x480 back then
<ogra> and i had the same prob :)
<plars> JamieBennett: it's working just fine for me, hmm
<ogra> oh, no, wait that was for *moving* 
<ogra> you couldnt move the panel around with the option set
<JamieBennett> plars: where are you clicking? i.e. remove the session applet (the one with your name) and try to add it back
<plars> JamieBennett: I'm not removing anything
<plars> JamieBennett: I'm moving the indicator applet over to the left
<JamieBennett> plars: No, remove from panel then try to add back
<plars> JamieBennett: indicator-applet-session?
<JamieBennett> plars: Yes (the one with the user name)
<plars> JamieBennett: ok, I just added it back
<JamieBennett> plars: :(
<plars> JamieBennett: using the method I just described
<JamieBennett> plars: OK, I see it. You have to move applet to make space and only then can you add any new applets in :(
<plars> JamieBennett: right, it's as you described - if there is a space to click, it's insanely small
<plars> you likely won't get to it without shifting things and making room
<JamieBennett> The 1px by 1px that is reserved for the weather applet? can be right clicked on if your good :)
<JamieBennett> plars: Also for 447886 maybe that the box starts minimized for some reason. A right click on the padlock icon that it produces offers a un-minimize option.
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-10-14
<plars> njpatel: hi, when you get a chance, could you take a look at: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-netbook-remix-default-settings/+bug/448109 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 448109 in ubuntu-netbook-remix-default-settings "Cannot add to panel" [Wishlist,Triaged]
<plars> njpatel: it has a pretty simple workaround, but it's not obvious to most folks.  Was curious what your thoughts were... should it just be converted to a question, or is there something that can/should be done to make this easier
<njpatel> plars: I think there's a bug against window-picker-applet upstream for that...there's no easy way around it as the gnome-panel doesn't allow applets to popup it's 'add to panel' menu
<plars> njpatel: is there a way to force a blank area on the panel for adding things though?  that's about the only thing I could think of, but it's ugly and shrinks wpa even smaller
<njpatel> plars: right, that's why we don't do it...there may be a way if we pass events through, but I don't think we'd able to get it in for Karmic due to time issues
<Ingmar> Are there any bzr repos available containing the opensource bits of the poulsbo driver?
<Ingmar> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mobile/+archive/ppa/+packages?field.name_filter=&field.status_filter=published&field.series_filter=jaunty
<Ingmar> ^ That lists some .orig tarballs that I can't find anywhere on moblin.org, and they seem newer than their git repos
<Ingmar> so I'm curious where they're maintained & developed
<lool> Ingmar: No
<lool> Ingmar: The PPA contents is all the public stuff we have
<Ingmar> lool: so can you tell me where those releases originate?
<lool> Ingmar: Intel's extranet
<Ingmar> lool: got a link by chance? :)
<lool> Ingmar: You need an approved account etc.
<lool> Ingmar: Plus it only accepts internet explorer (no kidding!)
<Ingmar> bleh
<Ingmar> alright, thanks
<lool> Ingmar: I dont have it offhand but you really wont get anywhere if you're not in partnership with intel
<lool> Ingmar: https://platformsw.intel.com/
<Ingmar> lool: thank you
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-10-15
<lool> njpatel: Hey
<lool> njpatel: Can you think of something we could do to avoid 447886?
<njpatel> lool: Hmm, a patch to gnome-keyring to force it's window to be active?
<lool> njpatel: Will this work if netbook-launcher is started afterwards?
<njpatel> lool: oh, I'm not sure :-/
<lool> njpatel: I fear gnome-panel + NM + gnome-keyring start before launcher
<lool> and then launcher hides g-k
<njpatel> lool: yeah, I think you have a point
<njpatel> lool: is there something in the desktop file of netbook-launcher (the one we install in /etc/xdg/autostart) that can tell it to launch at the same time as the panel etc? This may not solve the problem, but might be good by itself too
<lool> X-GNOME-Autostart-Phase=Desktop
<lool> versus X-GNOME-Autostart-Phase=Panel
<lool> So it's possible indeed
<lool> njpatel: I kind of feel it's hackish though
<lool> njpatel: Also it might regress boot time if we start too much stuff at the same time
<lool> njpatel: Could netbook-launcher stack open windows when it's done launching?
<lool> njpatel: I mean put any windows which it finds at its startup on the foreground
<njpatel> lool: hmm, it could I guess
<lool> njpatel: I mean if you feel that's too dangerous, we can consider fixing the bug in a stable update or something
<njpatel> lool: yeah, I think we'd need to test that out, as I need to figure out a safe place to put that code
<lool> njpatel: Can I track this for karmic's SRUs?
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-10-16
<yanli> paulliu, hey! are you there?
<yanli> paulliu, we've just made the anjal 0.1 release, and i want to push it into billerica
<paulliu> yanli: hi. 
<paulliu> yanli: I have a patch to generate anjal and anjal-anerley. We will have anerley in Ubuntu universe soon. And it is already in Debian I think.
<yanli> oh, that's cool!
<yanli> yup, libanerley0
<yanli> paulliu, i can't find billerica's ppa... could you please tell me where's the anjal for billerica?
<paulliu> yanli: sorry. What's billerica?
<paulliu> yanli: Is it a codename?
<paulliu> yanli: I'll ask it. Wait.
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-10-17
<tramseo> is it possible to get linux on my phone? its an SCP-6600
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-10-18
<tramseus> hello, could someone please help me see a list of program that are suppose to start with linux
<tramseus>  my phone system is failing to start up an application
<tramseus> ./var/logs
<tramseus> but idk which ones
<tramseus> So?
