#launchpad 2004-11-15
<lifeless> daf: thats why there are build from source instructions right there.
<lifeless> I might modify it to 'ix86 debs are autobuilt, the rest by volunteers that we trust - but we still cannot vouch...'
<daf> I think a "it's not our fault if Bazaar ruins your life notice" might be less scary :)
<daf> s/Bazaar/these Bazaar packages/
<BradB> lifeless: what's your email. I'm confused as to why all the tests pass but I still get a failure. Maybe if I forward this you can give me a good reason why it fails.
<lifeless> robertc@robertcollins.net
<BradB> spiv: what's your email?
<spiv> andrew@canonical.com :)
<BradB> sent
<spiv> Heh.
<spiv> test_on_merge.py is now *too* strict.
<spiv> That final ignored exception broke the test for the last line of stderr being "OK\n" :)
<spiv> The return value is sufficient... I'll fix test_on_merge.py :)
<BradB> cool, thanks
<lifeless> heh
<lifeless> stdout is crack.
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: star-merge from kiko. (patch-729)
<kiko> that's ME!
* kiko lands view-hackage into tree
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Make test_on_merge.py rely only on exit code, to avoid spurious failures. (patch-730)
<spiv> BradB: Try now :)
<kiko> stub, around?
* BradB will commit one more change locally then try spiv's change
<daf> kiko: he went to bed about four hours ago, I think
<kiko> ah, pity.
<daf> um, no
<daf> timezone confusion :)
<daf> make that 9 hours ago
<bob2> hah
<bob2> it's 1037 in stub-town
<daf> yo, bob
<daf> how's things in bob2-town?
* BradB thinks Launchpad needs a Mao plugin
<carlos> X-)
<bob2> daf: a bit hot, but not too shabby...how's ye olde wales?
<BradB> daf's in the country that just re-elected bush, i thought
<kiko> they did, huh
<daf> yeah :(
<daf> well, they didn't re-elect him, since they didn't elect him in the first place
<BradB> well "elect" him, whatever :P
<daf> bob2: here is cold
<daf> bob2: here is also New York
<BradB> daf: do you like it there?
<bob2> daf: oh, wow...for work?
<bob2> daf: also, wherever you are seems cold and/or wet
<bob2> "everywhere you go, you always take the weaaaaaather with you"
<daf> New York sure is Crowded, Bob
<daf> BradB: it's interesting :)
<stub> kiko: am now
<bob2> daf: hehehehe
* BradB is all about Montreal
<BradB> stub: I fixed that db problem; you owe me a sloppy wet kiss.
<stub> I should warn you about my halitosis
<BradB> heh heh
<kiko> stub, you da man! :)
<stub> See kiko - DVD's just don't cut it.
<kiko> stub, so, if you would like to update mawson you'll get my patches (in want of the views you'd add at the same time)
<kiko> stub, that's depressing, though.
<kiko> spiv is such a weenie he actually accepts and then invalidates the offer by slacking. good grief. 
* stub starts on updating mawson, before email distracts him for a few hours
<kiko> thanks.
<BradB> stub: you should wait dude
<BradB> i've got a bigass commit to land, and one last failing func test (that i just recreated, because i broke the existing one)
<BradB> stub: could you also configure email to send real emails out? my next commit will start sending global notifications to dilys as well.
<BradB> and adds the product widget to bug add forms, and make source package not-required
<stub> BradB: will do. Was brought up at the meeting last night, but I wanted to make sure you were happy with email being switched on
<BradB> yeah, might as well
<stub> I got branches to merge and configs to backport and update scripts to write anyway ;)
<bob2> lifeless: launchpad is like 350MB
<bob2> "Ican't believe you only had 80MB free", indeed.
<lifeless> I can't believe you only had 350MB.
<daf> daf@mabli ~/src/canonical/dists/launchpad> du -sh .
<daf> 165M    .
<daf> ?
<bob2> hm, I guess I mean launchpad + buildbot
<daf> buildbot is 200M?
<lifeless> (nyah, bob2 is smoking something)
<lifeless> probably a pristine tree.
<bob2> oh
<bob2> touche
<bob2> with an accent
* daf hands bob an 
<bob2> I have no compose key and I want to die.
<bob2> mac keyboards have a distinct lack of extra keys
<bob2> make run on current launchpad:
<bob2>   File "/home/rob/projects/warthogs/launchpad/launchpad/lib/psycopgda/adapter.py", line 259, in ?
<bob2>     DATE = psycopg.new_type((DATE_OID,), "ZDATE", _conv_date)
<bob2> zope.configuration.xmlconfig.ZopeXMLConfigurationError: File "/home/rob/projects/warthogs/launchpad/launchpad/site.zcml", line 17.4-17.64
<bob2>     ZopeXMLConfigurationError: File "/home/rob/projects/warthogs/launchpad/launchpad/package-includes/launchpad-sql-configure-normal.zcml", line 6.2-9.34
<bob2>     AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'new_type'
<daf> urg
<BradB> bob2: which psycopg are you using? it's worth verifying.
<bob2> the config didn't get one, which zope also complained about
<bob2> so I checked out...
<bob2> rocketfuel@canonical.com/psycopgda--test--3.0
<BradB> that's not psycopg
<bob2> erm, right
<BradB> try importing psycopg from the command line
<bob2> works
<BradB> it would
<bob2> I'll go back and check out the original error
<BradB> be see what version and .new_type
<BradB> >>> import psycopg
<BradB> >>> psycopg.new_type
<BradB> <built-in function new_type>
<BradB> >>> psycopg.__version__
<BradB> '1.1.15'
<BradB> >>> 
<bob2> removing psyopga:
<bob2>   File "/home/rob/projects/warthogs/launchpad/launchpad/lib/zope/configuration/fields.py", line 141, in fromUnicode
<bob2>     raise schema.ValidationError(v)
<bob2> zope.configuration.xmlconfig.ZopeXMLConfigurationError: File "/home/rob/projects/warthogs/launchpad/launchpad/site.zcml", line 5.4-5.35
<bob2>     ZopeXMLConfigurationError: File "/home/rob/projects/warthogs/launchpad/launchpad/lib/canonical/configure.zcml", line 76.4-76.44
<bob2>     ZopeXMLConfigurationError: File "/home/rob/projects/warthogs/launchpad/launchpad/lib/canonical/database/configure.zcml", line 5.4
<bob2>     ConfigurationError: ('Invalid value for', 'class', "Couldn't import canonical.launchpad.database, No module named psycopg")
<BradB> easy enough
<bob2> hrm, after remocing psycopgda I can't import psycopg anymore
<daf> surely it should be the other way around?
<BradB> you need to install psycopg is all
<bob2> bah, I deleted the wrong thing
<bob2> ok, let me start over
<BradB> stub: oh well, go ahead and roll out a new lp, there's now six failures on the server again and i don't have time to do any more on this tonight
<stub> ok. sounds like whack-a-mole
<BradB> argh, this is annoying
<BradB> oh well, i gotta take off
<bob2> where can I find LP's psycopg?
<bob2> it doesn't seem to be in rocketfuel at all
<spiv> bob2: apt-get
<bob2> yeah, lifeless just said that
<bob2> silly me
<spiv> The LaunchpadDevelopmentEnvironment wiki page (or whatever the name is) is reasonably up to date.
<bob2> ah, forgot about that, thanks
<bob2>   File "/home/rob/projects/warthogs/launchpad-2/launchpad/lib/canonical/launchpad/database/project.py", line 98, in __iter__
<bob2>     for row in self.table.select():
<bob2>   File "/home/rob/projects/warthogs/launchpad-2/launchpad/lib/sqlobject/main.py", line 1198, in __iter__
<bob2>     return conn.iterSelect(self)
<bob2>   File "/home/rob/projects/warthogs/launchpad-2/launchpad/lib/sqlobject/dbconnection.py", line 507, in iterSelect
<bob2>     select, keepConnection=True))
<bob2> TypeError: iteration over non-sequence
<bob2> 127.0.0.1 - 16 [4/Nov/2004:14:03:13 +1100]  "GET /doap/projects/ HTTP/1.1" 200 292 "http://localhost:8085/doap" "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux ppc; en-US; rv:1.7) Gecko/20041013 Firefox/0.9.3 (Ubuntu)"
<bob2> (when viewing the projects)
<bob2> also when adding one
<spiv> Update your SQLOjbect.
<spiv> Make sure you have the latest sqlobject--test--0.6
<bob2> erk, oops
<spiv> (Make sure the rest of your build config is up to date while you're there...)
<bob2> this is the buldbot config, which seems a tad...broken
<lifeless> out of date is more accurate.
<lifeless> but yeah
<bob2> hm, and now it works
<bob2> but I'm sure it didn't before
<lifeless> great.
<lifeless> now you need to setup a simpe cvs repo on your hard disk, and then crate a 'revision control system' entry for that in launchpad
<bob2> ok
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/dists--devel--0: launchpad dogfood config and snapshot helper (patch-31)
<lifeless> bob2: how is that going ?
<bob2> lifeless: just cerating the cvs repository
<bob2> which is suckage on the order of tla
<lifeless> cvs init DIRECTORY
<lifeless> or pydoc CVS
<bob2> nope
<bob2> -d or $CVSROOT
<lifeless> import CVS
<bob2> oh
<bob2> good point
<bob2> lifeless: er, where do I tell LP about it again?
<lifeless> project, product, create revision control system
<bob2> ah
<bob2> it requires a tarball in addition to the repository url?
<lifeless> no
<lifeless> just leave that field black.
<lifeless> *blank*
<lifeless> and give it :local:/path/to/rep in the rep field
<bob2> the red dot next to it says "you have to fill me in", fwfw
<lifeless> its bullshitting you
<bob2> ah
<bob2> and the module?
<lifeless> whatever module you ahve created in there
<lifeless> (mkdir creates a module, FWIW)
<bob2> is an empty module ok for buildbot?
<lifeless> yes, but not for the test you need
<lifeless> errr
<bob2> oh yeah, I need actual stuff to import
<lifeless> yeah
<lifeless> so. mkdir foo in the repo
<bob2> ok, mkdir to make the module, co it out, "cvs add" some stuff, cvs ci
<lifeless> then checked with -d..yep
<bob2> ok, cool
<lifeless> chieck in a few different things with diff log emssages
<dilys> Merge to thelove@canonical.com/hackerlab--devo--1.1: merge in chth@gmx.net--tla2004/hackerlab--pika-escaping-fix--0 which extends the character classes to allow bugfixes for tla (patch-3)
<daf> what *is* pika-escaping?
<lifeless> unicode escaping, NIH style.
<daf> ah
<daf> you know you have too many background processes when you have to grep the output of "jobs" to find the one you want
<bob2> launchpad doesn't whine very hard when I fuck up an import specification
<lifeless> daf: garh
<lifeless> bob2: what did you do ?
<bob2> lifeless: didn't enter the arch branch details
<lifeless> heh.
<bob2> and there's no "sync me harder" button
<lifeless> right, its fully separate.
<lifeless> and ?
<bob2> oh, I just want a button that says "sync me harder"
<lifeless> troll
<bob2> you gotta keep people on their toes
<bob2> a consistent UI is a bad UI
<bob2>           File "/home/rob/projects/warthogs/launchpad-2/launchpad/botmaster/master.cfg", line 95, in ?
<bob2>             clause="product.id = sourcesource.product AND project.id = product.project AND NOT project.name='do-not-use-info-imports' and NOT product.name='unassigned' and sourcesource.processingapproved is not NULL")
<bob2>           File "./jobstuff.py", line 19, in processDB
<bob2>             SQLBase.initZopeless(connectionForURI('postgres://' + dbhost +'/' + dbname))
<bob2>         exceptions.AttributeError: type object 'SQLBase' has no attribute 'initZopeless'
<bob2> lifeless: ^
<lifeless> you dropped in my jobstuff.py file ?
<lifeless> run up python with the right PYTHONPATH
<bob2> in the botmaster dir? yes.
<lifeless> oh, fraggit.
<lifeless> I know
<bob2> my fault?
<lifeless> no
<lifeless> .msged you
<bob2> yeah
<stub> Bad PQM! Bad!
<stub> 'Package rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--dogfood--0 not found in config'
<lifeless> hmm.
<lifeless> do a debug attempt
<lifeless> mail me the output
<stub> I think it is because the line in the config is actually: ./dogfood       rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--dogfood--0--base-0
<stub> Hmm... I know what I want it to do, but I see why it is bitching...
<stub> I think I need configs 'dogfood' which just lists the versions, and config 'dogfood-snapshot' which lists the explicit patch levels.
<lifeless> stub: no, you don't.
<lifeless> thats not how the code works.
<stub> I'm thinking I need a 'latest patches' config which pqm uses to checkout a dogfood release to run the tests, and a 'snapshot' config which specifies revisions of all packages that were rolled out.
<stub> Maybe this snapshot stuff is YAGNI - we probably don't actually care what version of sqlobject we were running last week.
<lifeless> stub: I'm not tracking your needs here. AIUI a merge failed? please send me the debug run output I requested, and I'll fix it for you
<stub> I think the debug submit is on the way. I can see why it is failing though.
<stub> I'm specifying an explicit version in the build-config file (rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--dogfood--0--base-0 atm). So when I tell PQM to merge my local changes of launchpad--dogfood--0 into rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--dogfood--0, it fails. PQM isn't intelligent enough to truncate the --base-0, and I don't know if that would be correct in all situations anyway.
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/arch-pqm--main--0: implement a debug command, which when seen causes all output to be returned in email (patch-14)
<stub> bah - now pqm just isn't talking to be.
* stub goes to book plane tickets
<stub> lifeless, elmo: look like I killed pqm
<lifeless> booya
<stub> Don't know if that is any healthier...
<stub> lifeless: Still spinning
<lifeless> boo
<stub> lifeless: Still no responses. Some lock not cleared?
<lifeless> no, locks are fine.
<lifeless> you had killed it though.
<lifeless> there are no messages in its queue
<lifeless> oh bah
<lifeless> it doesn't barf anywhere nearly loud enough on a locked lock.
<dilys> Merge to thelove@canonical.com/bazaar--devo--1.0: merge chth@gmx.net--tla2004/tla--taglineescaping--0 which fixes a lack of escaping in inode signatures (patch-60)
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/dists--devel--0: seperate dogfood.snapshot config (patch-32)
<Kinnison> morning cprov 
<cprov> Kinnison: morning, how are you ?
<Kinnison> Not bad thanks
<cprov> Kinnison: do you know any news about the lp_dogfood code update ? isn't it supposed to be yesterday night ?
* Kinnison has no idea; sorry
* Kinnison has been too busy running through pretend domination exercises ready to write up that bit of lucille
<cprov> Kinnison: ok.
* Kinnison thinks he's ready to write canonical.lucille.Dominator
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: get more gina bits merged (patch-731)
<Kinnison> thanks babe
<Kinnison> hey debonzi.
<carlos> hi
<debonzi> hi Kinnison
<stub> So - how do I restart that twisted thing I had to kill on Mawson to update the database schema?
<Kinnison> cd into the /srv/launchpad.ubuntu.com/librarian dir
<Kinnison> run ./run-librarian.sh
<stub> And that somehow telepatically picks up the correct ports and addresses? Or are the defaults fine?
<Kinnison> the defaults are correct
<Kinnison> and it overrides the librarianroot etc.
<stub> Well.. it appeared to do nothing so I'll assume it worked :-)
<stub> process running at least
<Kinnison> heh
<Kinnison> tail the log in that dir and see if it thinks it started up okay
<stub> seems to have started up happily on port 8000 and set its uid & gid. No errors :)
<stub> I like it when software works.
* Kinnison has a brainwave; replaces the word "binarypackage" with the word "build" in a whole pile of his mental processes and feels as the concepts intrinsically simply and a corner-case falls away for free
<Kinnison> s/simply/simplify/
<Kinnison> hey kiko
<kiko> hey kinni
<kiko> what's on? my views ruining the morning?
* Kinnison hasn't looked at 'em :-)
* Kinnison is writing domination code
<kiko> heh
<kiko> spiv, you spivster!
<spiv> kiko, you... kikoster!
<kiko> now I'm actually going to have to *work* on this holiday
<kiko> waaaah
<spiv> Heh.
* ddaa has done some queries on the taxi data
<ddaa> spiv, lifeless: that stuff looks sane
<ddaa> The involvement of the branch table was not obvious at first, so I got some weirdness initially, though.
<ddaa> I can get the revision listing, the hashes for log files, and there are no hashes for checksum files.
<spiv> ddaa: Excellent :)
<ddaa> i would not bet my job that it is correct though, but it has passed the "is not obviously borken" test as far as I am concerned.
<ddaa> not tested for sync though.
<ddaa> spiv: are different code paths exercised for sync than for import?
<spiv> No idea.
<lifeless> taxi is working - spiv has fixed the issue that was breaking us.
<lifeless> bob2 is fixing the logic issue that he left behind in oxford.
<ddaa> lifeless: you are telling me there is not point in being paranoid?
<lifeless> yes, exactly.
* ddaa puts --no-paranoid in his argv
<lifeless> taxi itself is a thin wrapper around the database arch stuff, which was heavily tested.
* ddaa reloads
<ddaa> Hello, my name is cindy.
* ddaa purge the cache and reload.
<lifeless> and I'm a material girl o/
<lifeless> night
<ddaa> Material?
<lifeless> song reference
<ddaa> Ha. Weak reference then ;-)
<ddaa> g'night.
<ddaa> spiv: do you have some pointers/keywords to find the magic stuff to get a python backtrace from gdb?
<spiv> ddaa: I have it in my .gdbinit back in .au :/
<spiv> I remember it being difficult to google for, too :/
<ddaa> yup... google did not turn up anything useful...
<ddaa> trying gmane, now
<ddaa> kw: python gdb backtrace
<spiv> Ah: http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/python/python/dist/src/Misc/gdbinit?view=markup
<spiv> Well, the python term is usually "traceback" :)
<spiv> Looks like it's in python cvs these days.
<ddaa> this can explain that :-)
<ddaa> I assume that twistd will use whatever python is first in the path, right?
<spiv> Alternatively, there's: "call PyRun_SimpleString("import sys, traceback; sys.stderr=open('/tmp/tb','w',0); traceback.print_stack()")"
<spiv> (from http://www.upfrontsystems.co.za/Members/jean/zope-notes/debug-spinning-zope)
<ddaa> that looks totally unsafe
<ddaa> the python interpreter is all but reentrant.
<spiv> The debian package of twistd's #! is #!/usr/bin/python2.3
* ddaa sighs...
<spiv> You could do "/path/to/my/python `which twistd` ...."
<ddaa> ha, good. Thanks.
<spiv> If you run Twisted out of a SVN checkout, "/path/to/my/python bin/twistd ...." would work.
<ddaa> Do i look like a guy to run Twisted out of a SVN checkout? :-)
* debonzi -> lunch
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Added some code to detect the po directories (patch-732)
* BradB notes how difficult it is to find the place to say "I forgot my password" on ubuntulinux.org
<carlos> BradB: there is a bug report open about that feature, because seems to be failing
<BradB> that's what i'm looking at :)
<carlos> :-P
<BradB> debonzi: Do you have access to the error log for the forgottenpassword functionality? It's not part of the regular Plone site, so I have no idea where to look to find out what the error was.
<debonzi> BradB, I have no idea about it.. sorry
<carlos> BradB: I think it's in our production launchpad server
<carlos> but I'm not sure
<BradB> debonzi: Who knows, Steve?
<debonzi> BradB, probably.. 
<carlos> BradB: not sure, but I think spiv was working on it
<spiv> I know nothing about how the forgottenpassword thing works.
* Kinnison -> out for a bit; got mobile if you need me
<carlos> spiv: I thought you worked on the integration of launchpad's logins with our plone site..
<spiv> carlos: Yes, I did. :)
<spiv> But not the forgottenpassword bit :)
<BradB> carlos: It was debonzi and SteveA
<carlos> oh, ok O:-)
<debonzi> BradB, Ive implemented it, but I have no idea where it is running and how it was inserted in the ubuntulinux site
* BradB punts this one to the eggman
* carlos goes to the university
<carlos> later
<lulu> BradB: and elmo only added a single redirect to macquarie, so it looks like SteveA is the man to sort this!
<BradB> yep
<lulu> BradB:ping
<Kinnison> c'ya guys
<Kinnison> time for me to head off for the evening
<lulu> kinnison: ciao
<BradB> lulu: pong
<lulu> Bradb: :o) hey! Once RSS is enabled on the site, will it allow users to add an feed themselves?
<lulu> a feed...
<BradB> lulu: not afaik
<lulu> oh, I was hoping they could! another item in the "add new item" drop down list.....
<lulu> ok - thanks for that :o)
<BradB> no prob. i don't know the sin_tool really well, but it's pretty simple, so perhaps we can look at that again when we know for sure which feeds we'll show, and then maybe we can see if there's some way to do what you want to do.
<lulu> BradB: yup - perhasp we should do a test run on ubuntu_test :o)
<lulu> I'm outta here - have a great weekend :o)
<BradB> kiko: you're evil.
<BradB> class SourcePackageRelease(SQLBase):
<BradB>     implements(ISourcePackageRelease)
<BradB>     _table = 'VSourcePackageReleasePublishing'
<BradB> :(
<BradB> no wonder i couldn't figure out why the table sourcepackagerelease has two rows, but my vocab was only spitting back one term every time.
<BradB> kiko: can you look into this? this is the last thing preventing me from checking in now (the solution seems to either be to fix your view to outer join as needed to make absolutely sure that it returns a row for each row in sourcepackagerelease, or to set _table = "SourcePackageRelease", and create another class for this.
* BradB goes for lunch
<kiko> BradB|lunch, I am indeed evil, you got that part right.
<kiko> BradB|lunch, can you elaborate in details what your problem is?
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: improves on soyuz people/person pages (patch-733)
<salgado> stub: ping
<kiko> I can only imagine stub's asleep
<ddaa> Ho my... vte looks terribly like it used arch back in 2002
<ddaa> the first revision is removing a .arch-ids directory...
<ddaa> lifeless: what do we do of that one? Contact upstream to figure out what's up?
<BradB> kiko-afk: the problem is that you made SourcePackageRelease a view.
<BradB> kiko-afk: this creates two issues (correct me if i'm wrong):
<BradB> 1. it doesn't behave the same as if the table were SourcePackageRelease (as mentioned above, there's two rows in SPR, but I only get one result now that your view has been swapped in place of what used to be the SPR table)
<BradB> 2. people who expect to assign to SPR attributes are in for a surprise.
* debonzi -> dinner
<daf> BradB: I haven't received any Malone announcements yet
<BradB> daf: i haven't been able to land my changes yet
<BradB> daf: and i have to wait for kiko-afk till i can
<kiko-afk> oy oy
<BradB> woo, the man who can save the dya
<kiko-afk> BradB, you're right on the second count. I'm not *entirely* sure that you're right on the first one
<BradB> i am right on the first one, i'm seeing it happen, and my tests are now breaking because of it :)
<kiko-afk> heh
<BradB> if you want to reproduce it, you can check against your sample data.
<kiko-afk> sure
<kiko-afk> can you describe it more precisely?
<kiko-afk> the real fix is to use a separate class for the view, btw
<kiko-afk> and not hitch on sourcepackagerelease for it
<BradB> indeed it is
<kiko-afk> problem is that's not a trivial task
<kiko-afk> can you by any chance work around me for today? I've got salgado on it
<BradB> here's the exact problem (one sec):
<spiv> Ouch, go to https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs, click on #5.
<BradB> that's a dead chicken anyway
<BradB> it was a bug mdz entered when i demo'd malone to him
<BradB> so the data has since gotten blown away it looks like
* BradB resets his db to show kiko the spr view prob
<BradB> kiko-afk:
<BradB> launchpad_dev=# select count(*) from sourcepackagerelease;
<BradB>  count 
<BradB> -------
<BradB>      2
<BradB> (1 row)
<BradB> launchpad_dev=# select count(*) from vsourcepackagereleasepublishing;
<BradB>  count 
<BradB> -------
<BradB>      1
<BradB> (1 row)
<kiko-afk> I wonder how that happens.
<kiko-afk> can I see the rows themselves?
<BradB> missing an outer join surely
<BradB> kiko-afk: http://paste.husk.org/1931
<BradB> a quick hack might be to do whatever you tell me to do with that row to make it join, but then, it's possible that'd break something else
<kiko-afk> BradB, can't you just comment out the test?
<BradB> alternatively, to just put the table name back in _table, but that too might cause tests to fail
<BradB> kiko-afk: nope, it's about 7 of my page tests
<kiko-afk> this needs some looking into -- it seems that you're using broken sample data
<BradB> kiko-afk: i'm using *the* sample data :)
<daf> kiko-afk: get a move on :)
<kiko-afk> it may be broken -- it's not a gina run -- because the essential join with release is in the publishing tables and I suspect yours is empty.
<BradB> kiko-afk: in any case, i'm not concerned about the details of the view itself, SourcePackageRelease's table needs to be the correct one again (i.e. SourcePackageRelease) without everything blowing up. I can try simply making that change, but I'm dubious.
<spiv> Is adding a comment to a bug expected to fail with an IOError.
<kiko-afk> r=kiko on trying that, as anything I would do would take more time.
<kiko-afk> seriously
<kiko-afk> I have salgado on it but I would be producing the "correct" fix
<kiko-afk> not a reversal hack.
<BradB> spiv: yes! heh, no :P
<kiko-afk> you can revert to the original table and comment out the extra columns, I guess
<spiv> BradB: OError: [Errno 13]  Permission denied: '/var/tmp/launchpad_mailqueue/tmp/1099602988.9384.rosetta' :)
<spiv> Er, IOError :)
<BradB> wee, mail delivery doesn't have the correct perms
<BradB> that's stub's problem
<spiv> stub: Whee!
* BradB tries the SPR hack
* spiv files a bug...
<BradB> spiv: thanks
<spiv> BradB: Except I can't -- not in malone...
<BradB> ah, good point
<spiv> Because of the same error :)
<BradB> yes, urgh
* spiv resorts to bugzilla
<dilys> New bug 2157 for Launchpad/Malone: Can't add new bugs or comments due to IOError
<dilys> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=2157
<BradB> kiko-afk: From my end, I'll change ISourcePackageRelease and SourcePackageRelease to be suitable for the SPR table. From your end, all you should need to do is make a new interface and class for the view, and then change whatever code's using it to use that view class instead of SPR.
<kiko-afk> BradB, will do. salgado, sounds okay?
<salgado> kiko-afk: yes
<BradB> kiko-afk: What do we call SQLObjects that are views then? VFoo?
<BradB> Maybe the same as the view name in the DB, who knows...
<BradB> kiko-afk: Also, could you give me meaningful descriptions of each of the following please:
<BradB>     builddepends = Attribute("")
<BradB>     builddependsindep = Attribute("")
<BradB>     architecturehintlist = Attribute("")
<BradB>     dsc = Attribute("")
<kiko-afk> those 4?
<kiko-afk> kinni would be a better person to ask.
<kiko-afk> builddepends is a list of packages on which this package depends on to build (comma-separated)
<kiko-afk> dsc is the dsc file (I believe it's a librarian ID for it or something)
<kiko-afk> builddependsindep are architecture-independent packages this package depends on to buid; according to elmo this is a hack that could go away IIRC
<kiko-afk> archhintlist is beyond me, I don't know.
<BradB> What's a DSC file?
<BradB> I've heard the term bandied about, but I'm no package maintainer so I still don't know what it means.
<kiko-afk> DEB source description? Something like that.
<BradB> ah
<kiko-afk> it lives inside a source package
<BradB> is it like a manifest?
<lifeless> ddaa: look on google.
<lifeless> see if you can determine if arch is still in use.
<lifeless> if it is, and they have the history, we can just mirror.
* BradB uses google to find out what a dsc is :P
<lifeless> otherwise we cscvs and use their ids
<ddaa> Will do. Just not today.
<ddaa> I checked the supermirror and did not find anything convincing.
<ddaa> And I know jblack has been to great lenghts to get his hands on anything google could find.
<ddaa> btw the "use their ids" part eludes me. How?
<lifeless> cscvs can use a reference tree to determine file ids
<ddaa> I know, I wrote that feature...
<ddaa> I mean, how do I put that into the import process?
<ddaa> How, and btw, what gave me the clue is that some cvs rvsns do put the ids in the tree, or other revisions remove them.
* ddaa checks the changelog
<ddaa> Neverminh...
<ddaa> brainfart...
<ddaa> got confused by the presence of id files in the changelog...
<dilys> New bug 2158 for Launchpad/Database: SourcePackageRelease table does not have comments
<dilys> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=2158
<ddaa> lifeless: vte looks good to go, then.
<lifeless> ddaa: can you do the project & product mappings for it?
<ddaa> Aye aye.
<elmo> debian source control I think, but it's basically, a file ending in ".dsc"
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> sendak.freenode.net
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> sendak.freenode.net
<salgado> BradB: mark asked me to create a new sampledata, and it's done now. it's a mix of a gina run and the current sampledata. can you try it, and tell me if it's ok for you?
<BradB> salgado: hm? that's not the real problem here.
<BradB> the fix for the Real Problem is currently being merged by pqm (at least i hope i don't get yet another failure, anyway)
<salgado> BradB: I know it's not the problem. 
<salgado> I only want to get some feedback of the new sampledata, before merging it
<BradB> salgado: the real problem from my perspective was that SourcePackageRelease wasn't a SourcePackageRelease. I'm leaving the view stuff in your guys' hands though, because it doesn't affect me once the latter problem is fixed, which it now is.
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: built a forcefield for malone. some cleanup, and moving around of pagetest-related code. bug add form fixes. unbroke SourcePackageRelease. (patch-734)
<salgado> BradB: tomorrow I'll be hacking on the VSPR bug. the new sampledata has nothing to do with it
* BradB praises the lord (re: pqm accepting my merge :)
<BradB> stub: time for a new dogfood rollout dude!
<BradB> spiv, kiko-afk, stub: can you think of any reason why I'd care what the "nickname" of a bug is?
<kiko> it's an alias, it's often useful when you have gobs of thousands of bugs.
<BradB> (I'm now cleaning up the bug listing to rename Owner => Submitted, add Assigned To, and remove "nickname" probably)
<kiko> instead of bug 2314213211
<BradB> hm
<kiko> you can have bug "sourcepackage-views"
<BradB> kiko: bugzilla uses numbers though
<BradB> I'd rather have "2113"
<BradB> kiko: realistically nicknames'll go the way of hotmail addresses: "sourcepackage-views-69"
<kiko> BradB, bugzilla has both numbers and aliases, for the record.
<kiko> I should know -- I helped review the original code ;)
<BradB> fair enough :P
#launchpad 2004-11-16
<BradB> i would have thought it becomes hard to pick an alias pretty quickly though
<BradB> "zope-interfaces"...
<kiko> it depends on the size of your project or on the amount of subproducts you have in it
<BradB> i've never used an alias for a bugzilla bug; it seems like overkill. in any case, it's probably safe to remove it from the bugs-index.pt for now.
<kiko> I have, though. agreed it's not needed in the listing
<BradB> kiko: how do you think Bugzilla compares to RT? Just curious.
<kiko> they solve different problem sets
<kiko> RT is obviously more visually agreeable
<kiko> Bugzilla is a hard-core bug/trasktracker that scales 
<BradB> is RT more an issue tracker?
<kiko> Bugzilla's killer feature for me is review support
<kiko> flags and attachment editing, IOW
<kiko> yes, RT's more issue-tracker.
<BradB> ah
<kiko> and bugzilla scales and provides query options that matter
<BradB> i'd like bugzilla to make me not have to think when I want to Cc, when i rarely have any idea what email address they've registered with in the BT
<BradB> "they", i.e. the people i want to Cc on the bug
<kiko> hum, but how do you CC: an arbitrary person? you do know we have user matching on substrings, right?
<BradB> kiko: i dunno, how do you Cc an arbitrary person? :) i would have expected that to Just Work too, but then it gave me an error saying that it couldn't find that address when i tried to Cc someone who, apparently, wasn't reg'd with that addy.
<kiko> you can specify portions of the person's address
<BradB> as for user matching substrings, i still didn't know which substring to pick (and not accidentally hit someone else)
<kiko> it's okay, you get a picker to choose from if there are collisions
<BradB> oh, didn't know that
<kiko> and a confirmation page if you didn't match uniquely (if that's configured)
<kiko> err 
<kiko> if you *did* match uniquely
<kiko> it could be trivially extended to also match on user *name*s but it doesn't today
<kiko> maybe on purpose
<BradB> perhaps, perhaps
<kiko> I think we do the best we can do *given* a large user base
<kiko> for a reduced user base glob implemented a userpicker
<ddaa> What is "Package" in ProjectProductSetup? The name of the corresponding Ubuntu package?
<kiko> you can use it as well
<lifeless> debian source package name
<kiko> user pickers would make loads of sense for canonical bugzilla
<kiko> but not so for ubuntu
<kiko> BradB, make sense?
<BradB> kiko: i want a combo box
<lifeless> just email me & cc Mark the mapping
<kiko> BradB, there is no such thing in HTML :)
<ddaa> lifeless: [package]  ack
<BradB> kiko: nah, i'm too lazy to care about if it's hard to do, i just want a cross-browser compatible combo box.
<ddaa> lifeless: [email]  I am not putting on the wiki???
<BradB> </demanding_user>
<kiko> BradB, like we have for the package selector in b.ubuntu.c?
<lifeless> ddaa: no.
<ddaa> Ok
<lifeless> the wiki page was a flop, but it shows you want info is needed.
<BradB> kiko: i haven't seen that, but you have something that acts like a windows GUI combo box where i start typing and it shrinks the list?
<kiko> BradB, try this:
<kiko> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1235
<kiko> it's justdave's baby
<kiko> type into the Package box (yes it could use some visual styling)
<kiko> BradB, however, it causes problems with page history and spiv and I well know.
<BradB> kiko: woooooooooooo!
<BradB> that's wild
<BradB> yes, definitely something like that is what i meant.
<kiko> heh
<kiko> it's probably not difficult
<BradB> that's nice work
<kiko> I'd do it for a couple of DVDs :)
<BradB> DVD bounties? :P
* BradB may offer DVD bounties at some point in the future.
<kiko> it's working for spiv, it could work for others :)
<BradB> hehe
<BradB> kiko: Ideally 1. Mark would pay for it, 2. it'd be a thing that can be reusable everywhere, because we have tons of use cases for it in launchpad (I'd add an actual dropdown though too, rather than waiting for me to type)
<BradB> Malone already needs it for package and product selection
<kiko> didn't limi design one of these for us?
<kiko> I believe he did..
<BradB> hm, i don't think his looked anything like that
<BradB> i found it pretty weird to be honest (a submit button for each result? eek)
<kiko> agreed on all counts! I just didn't have the nerve to tell. I wanted it to be *SIMPLE*.
<BradB> hehe, yep
<kiko> ideally we'd bug the W3C to include one in the next spec
<kiko> mark should buy the w3c
<BradB> that'd be wild
<kiko> let me ask hixie
<ddaa> kiko: that's no the way of Mark
<BradB> kiko: hixie?
<BradB> I'm going to email the list right now and ask Mark to buy us a combo box.
<ddaa> Instead, you should suggest him that having half the w3c staff on board could be useful to improve our standard-compliance ;-)
<kiko> lol
<kiko> yes, ask mark to buy us a spec and patches to IE and Moz.
<kiko> <kiko> Hixie_, how's it going? had a question for you
<kiko> <kiko> has the w3c ever evaluated something like a combobox for HTML Forms?
<BradB> I'm literally emailing the list though, not to change the w3c spec, but... :)
<kiko> (Hixie sits in on the XForms board)
<BradB> This is a major UI problem now that we're dogfooding.
<kiko> http://whatwg.org/specs/web-forms/current-work/#the-datalist
<kiko> sorry
<kiko> <Hixie_> kiko: http://whatwg.org/specs/web-forms/current-work/#the-datalist
<kiko> from the man himself
<kiko> BradB, that's what you wanted right?
<justdave> the page history issue should only affect that selector field itself now.
<justdave> the main page history problem was fixed by reordering the element order on the page so that the dynamic listbox was the last item in the page (in the DOM) rather than being in the middle of it.
<justdave> the trashed history only trashed the fields that occurred after it in the DOM.
<kiko> ah.
<BradB> kiko: from a .5 second skim, yeah, that looks like it.
<BradB> in any case, we need something nowish.
<kiko> yeah. and justdave's the man!
<BradB> I'm using justdave's example in my lp@ mail
<BradB> with the addition that it needs to let me make a selection without typing (i.e. like a true combo box)
<justdave> it was theoretically possible to do that, the three-characters-required was to make the page load faster.
<justdave> the index required to make it substring match on a single character made the index file a few hundred MB.
<justdave> er, few MB actually.  It's a few hundred KB now, with a three-character index.
<justdave> anyhow, you don't want to shove multiple MB at someone's dialup connection just so they can file a bug.
<lifeless> yes we do :)
* lifeless stops trolling
<justdave> there's 3000 (or more now?) items in that listbox though.  If you only have 20 or 30 things in it, the index would be really short :)
<justdave> My thinking on making that scale better for dialup users was the switch it to a server-side search instead of client-side... have a button to pop up a new window that they can do the search in, and feed it back to the textbox when they select one.
<justdave> that would also give them the option of browsing the entire list IF they wanted to download the whole list.
<BradB> justdave: i would have thought xml-rpc + dom mutation was the way to solve that
<justdave> BradB: yes, that's what you would do in the popup window
<justdave> when you type a couple letters, you expect results to start showing up, the way it currently works.
<justdave> you have a minimum 2 to 3 second delay every time you hit the server to look for something, just with browser and server overhead
<BradB> yeah
<justdave> and longer if they're on dialup.  the delay to grab new info is confusing to the user if they didn't purposely initiate the server hit.
<BradB> justdave: my concern is that i'm too lazy to click my mouse button to many times
<BradB> s,to many,too many,
<BradB> it might be worth making dialup users suffer, depending on just how much suffering it would be
<BradB> ("suffer" by just bringing everything across the first time the page is fetched.)
<lifeless> could you ...
<lifeless> bring down an index of the first item from the first two letters initially.
<lifeless> i.e. aardvark, abroken, acat
<lifeless> etc
<lifeless> then when they hit a, replace that with the a** index ?
<justdave> if we do left-side match, the data necessary to download to the client is not all that bad.
<justdave> as in, typing in the text field only matching things that start with what you've typed so far
<justdave> the humungous amounts of data required to download only happens when we do a substring match
<lifeless> ohh. yeah
<justdave> javascript doesn't have a "grep" command or equivalent.
<justdave> (not natively implemented anyway)
<justdave> so you have to manually step through an array looking for matches... (which will take forever and a day because javascript is slow)...
<justdave> or you create a property list with all of the possible substring combinations as keys, and an array of the matches as the value to each key.
<justdave> which is what our hack on Bugzilla is doing right now.
<justdave> (the arrays are tokenized and there's no whitespace in the .js file to try to minimize data transfer)
<stub> Does anyone know if Limi has made any progress on an asynchronous selection widget?
<kiko> stub, well, BradB and I don't really like the design we saw, but shhhh
<stub> design can be worked on - that was only a mockup. The main trick is the javascript for the textbox and the async. queries to do matching.
<stub> oic - you were talking about the delay incurred between hitting a letter and the results comming back... hmm...
<stub> so it has to have that ugly search button...
<BradB> stub!
<stub> Greeting
<stub> s
<BradB> stub: can you put a new dogfood version up? also, we really need email notification to be working properly (spiv filed the bug in bugzilla)
<BradB> we also need to get rid of the test bugs
<stub> Fresh dogfood went up yesterday. I thought I'd turned on mail (but forgot to check it - there was a rather long and frustrating delay between configuring and actually rolling out).
<BradB> it's turned on. perms error.
<stub> ok
<BradB> i landed a bunch of crap today.
<BradB> plus one more little thing whenever pqm finishes
<BradB> that'll fix all the bugs except the sorting problem spiv reported...i went to fix that, then i go "crap, why am i presented a list of source package releases and product releases on a bug add form?"
<stub> As for test bugs - I think that dogfooding has found a feature we need. We need a way of deleting bugs. 
<BradB> stub: i seem to remember asking mark about that in london, but i thought he didn't want that.
<kiko> dodgefooding.
<stub> lunchpod dogfood
<BradB> kiko: does bugzilla let you simply delete bugs?
<kiko> not really.
<BradB> i'm not sure we want that
<stub> Sourceforge lets you set the status of a bug to 'Deleted'. It is still there, but you generally won't search for them.
<kiko> it does, but it doesn't work 100% and it's not really something we encourage.
<BradB> stub: ah
<kiko> that's the right solution IMO.
<kiko> for any history-based bit of software
<stub> Every single project that starts using the system will create at least one test bug, because everyone wants to confirm it actually works before telling their users to use it.
<BradB> any kind of "delete" (even just a status) would seem so easy to be used wrong
<BradB> "oh, it's fixed, i can delete this bug now!" and other horror stories.
<BradB> i'm all about interfaces that are hard to use incorrectly
<kiko> well
<stub> I would like to develop a tool rather than a bureaucracy. I think a way of hiding test bugs and such would be useful.
<BradB> "Closed" might be enough for these extremely rare cases.
<kiko> bugzilla *does* let you do it. :)
<stub> I really don't want a googlebomber to start submitting malone bugs to increase page rankings of some porn site ;)
<BradB> ah yeah, hm
<stub> (oh... no hyperlinks so that isn't a problem)
<BradB> i think plone's solved that with "reject"
<stub> (unless we parse the text and turn URLs into hyperlinks ala roundup, in which case it is a problem)
<stub> My grand plan for allowing people to merge code into the dogfood branch to allow trivial rollout has failed btw, mainly due to our central archive being managed by a lobotomized monkey (PQM... not lifeless...). I'll need to talk to lifeless to see if I can redesign the process. At the moment it is all working the way I hoped except it is stuck in my personal archive so nobody else can play.
<BradB> arch-submit-merge "my evil changes" $dogfood?
<stub> Yes - but without the arch loops that would cause (that was my initial attempt, which jblack explained wouldn't work).
<BradB> the most critical thing for the DF right now is email perms, because it prevents anything from being done in malone
<stub> So that just involves changing the queue directory right? I remember that one now...
<BradB> yehh
<stub> ok - just fixed that. I'll do another push to get yesterdays code up.
<BradB> thanks
<kiko> BradB|afk, please give salgado some attention tomorrow, can you?
<kiko> he's wanting to show you a fixed up sample data set that mark has commissioned, but it needs testing by a malone-expert; daf, if you could do so for rosetta as well, we'd appreciate it
<daf> hmm?
<daf> kiko: what needs doing?
<kiko> daf, basically, just test the new sampledata package he's produced and help him into deciding what to do with the original files we have (which are rather broken AFAWCT)
<BradB|afk> kiko: what does he want to know, if it'll break malone?
<BradB|afk> i hope so, because I've already got python code figuring that out for me
<kiko> that's right.
<kiko> and then he wants someone to replace the current files by what we have :)
<BradB|afk> i don't think it's feasible for it to be significant. tests depend on the test data.
<BradB|afk> but other than that, if make check passes, he's good to go as far as malone's concerned.
<kiko> okidok
<kiko> time for me to run, thanks guys
<kiko> adieu
<justdave> the common (and supported) way of removing test bugs on Bugzilla is to create a "Test Product" which is set up as restricted so that only the admin can see it.
<justdave> then just move all of the test bugs into that product.
<stub> Mmm... we don't want to have to do the gardening ourselves though, since there will be way too may projects for us to look after.
<Kinnison> Morning
<bob2> lifeless: and I'm not sure why it's whining that there are no cmmits
<bob2> when there areally are
<lifeless> buildbot doesn't look at commits, ignore that.
<lifeless> ^our
<bob2> so what is it syncing?
<lifeless> commits.
<lifeless> the UI thing that says 'no commits' isd what you should ignore
* Signon time  :    Fri Oct 15 14:54:13 2004
* Signoff time :    Fri Nov  5 12:41:13 2004
* Total uptime :   20d 22h 47m  0s
<Kinnison> y'know; one thing that I dislike about test-driven-development is that seeing a 100% pass rate no longer fills me with joy
<Kinnison> time for me to head off
<BradB> daf: ping
<BradB> salgado: ping
<salgado> BradB: pong
<BradB> salgado: did kiko-afk pass on the message to you about how to know if your sample data will break malone?
<salgado> BradB: no
<BradB> "make check" :)
<BradB> salgado: if it breaks any tests, the sample data should be adjusted to not break any tests, unless there's an exceedingly good reason for it to warrant me spending the time to go through and fix all the tests (i.e. the malone forcefield)
<BradB> salgado: if "make check" passes, you might not have broken soyuz and rosetta, but you almost certainly didn't break malone.
<salgado> BradB: ok, thanks.
<BradB> spiv: ping
<spiv> pong.
<BradB> spiv: we probably want the submitter of a bug to be automatically subscribed to notifications eh?
<spiv> Uh, yeah :)
<spiv> I assumed that was already the cae :)
<BradB> i'll report that and fix it today
<spiv> So I guess that's a "yes" :)
<BradB> nope...you didn't get notifications when you reported your bugs, right?
<spiv> I did, actually.
<BradB> which bug #?
<spiv> Hmm, the notification emails don't include:
<spiv>  - a bug number
<spiv>  - or a url
<spiv> :)
<spiv> 12 and 13, which I added today.
<BradB> Ah yeah...I hacked the actual content of the messages in pretty au hazard. Now that it all works though, I can fine-tune what it tells you about the bug, or what's changed WRT to the bug.
<spiv> Should I file bugs about that, or will you take care of it? :)
<BradB> i'm doing it...just looking at how you're getting notifications right now
<BradB> oh, it's because i special-cased adds
<spiv> Heh.
* BradB reports that one and the message content one
<BradB> i'm also still not clear on how to "resolve" a bug, hmph.
<BradB> Bug title has to be widened on the add form too.
<BradB> woo!
<BradB> debonzi: ping
<BradB> er, hm...i'm just wondering if it's worth creating products for m, s, r, and l, instead of filing bugs against "source packages" m, s, r and l.
<BradB> calling the lp apps source packages is dirty
<debonzi> BradB, pong
<daf> BradB: pong
<BradB> debonzi: n/m for the moment...i was going to ask you to create products for m, r, s and l (instead of what SteveA had said previously that they'd be treated as "unreleased packages"), but maybe we can wait on that for the moment.
<BradB> daf: is dilys getting malone email?
<daf> I got one today
<BradB> you should have several more now
<daf> From: noreply@bbnet.ca
<BradB> yeah
<debonzi> BradB, ok
<daf> Subject: Comment on "What is an "Owner" of a bug?"
<BradB> oh crap, yeah the bug adding notification really sucks
<daf> I only see that one
<BradB> it special cases the owner, and *only* notifies the owner, in fact.
<daf> ah, I see
<BradB> elmo: do we have any domains with the word "launchpad" in them?
<elmo> BradB: launchpad.ubuntu.com
<BradB> i thought we had thelaunchpad.org, but unless i'm reading dig output incorrectly, i guess we don't
<BradB> elmo: o
<BradB> er, ok i mean
<elmo> BradB: we might have a tld with launchpad in it, but I don't know what it is, Mark would tho
<carlos> daf: my jabber client does not work at the moment
<carlos> BradB: any chance to get imported our current bugzilla bugs into malone?
<BradB> carlos: it could be done. sabdfl would have to decide if it's worth the money.
<BradB> (i.e. nothing exists currently to do it; we'd have to write an importer)
<carlos> so we are going to throw to the trash current bugs at bugzilla.ubuntu.com when we move to malone :-?
<BradB> carlos: what you're suggesting is that it's probably worth the money. mark'll have to confirm that.
<daf> carlos: ah
<daf> carlos: Did we agree on update makeTranslationSighting so it accepts a list of translations instead of doing several calls with the pluralform number?
<daf> carlos: it's not in your mail
<daf> dgh: I think making it take a list would make it more difficult to update only one translation
<daf> (paste from Jabber)
<carlos> yes, I saw that, it's the last thing you saw?
<carlos> :-(
<carlos> "bad, bad server, no donut for you"
<carlos> :-P
<daf> yes, that's the end
<carlos> 17:16  <carlos>   hmm, I'm having problems to figure
<carlos> 17:16 <carlos> how to mark a messageset as fuzzy when importing a pofile
<carlos> 17:16 <carlos> inside that method the way it's done now
<carlos> 17:17 <carlos> the only option will be to do it explicity
<carlos> 17:17 <carlos> instead of implicit in that method 
<carlos> that's what I wrote
<daf> hmm
<carlos> It's not a bad thing
<carlos> with the new model we are doing now
<daf> true
<carlos> ok, so I will do it that way
<daf> well, the flag should either be set when the message set is created, or have a default and be updated later
<carlos> daf: :-?
<carlos> are you talking about import time?
<carlos> and fuzzy or in general?
<daf> I'm not sure, what do you think?
<daf> :)
<carlos> you are not sure about what are you talking about?
<carlos> X-)
<daf> lots of people do it, they just don't usually admit it :)
<carlos> ok
<carlos> on import time, when we create a msgset, we could know already if that msgset should be marked as fuzzy or not
<carlos> so we could set it when it's created
<daf> how do we create a message set at import time?
<carlos>  pomsgset = self.pofile.createMessageSetFromMessageSet(potmsgset)
<carlos> there are some defaults there, it's easy to fix them
<daf> ok, cool
<daf> well, a new messageset should have iscomplete = FALSE and fuzzy = TRUE to begin with, right?
<daf> actually, perhaps fuzzy should be FALSE
<daf> we won't export it if it's not complete
<daf> I don't think the translator should have to explicitly mark things as not fuzzy
<carlos> then, from Rosetta UI, we also know if the msgset is fuzzy or not so we could do the same approach
<carlos> hmmm
<carlos> I don't follow you
<spiv> BradB: Hmm, the forgotten password page is broken on the dogfood server...
<spiv> BradB: I wonder if that's the same issue as the live plone system?
<daf> ok, let's say we have a translator translating GNU Hello into Spanish
<daf> and it hasn't been translated into Spanish before
<daf> he goes to the translation page
<daf> types in a few translations, and hits Submit
<carlos> ok
<daf> then, a new PO file is created
<daf> and createMessageSetFromMessageSet is called for each of the message sets he submitted translations for
<daf> if those new message sets are fuzzy by default, he's going to have to explicitly set each translation he makes non-fuzzy for them to be used
<daf> do you see my point?
<BradB> spiv: maybe try the live server and see if it works
<carlos> well, I don't think they should be set fuzzy by default
<daf> ok, neither do I :)
<carlos> I think I'm not talking clear here :-)
<BradB> spiv: of course, resetting it on the live server won't mean you can get into dogfood, but still, just to see...
<daf> carlos: maybe :)
<spiv> BradB: What do you mean by the live server?
<BradB> ubuntulinux.org
<carlos> the method does not accepts if a new msgset is or not fuzzy, I was talking about adding that option
<BradB>  /forgottenpassword, i think
<spiv> BradB: We know that  one's broken, remember the issue form yesterday?
<daf> BradB: Malone emails don't seem to contain bug numbers
<spiv> s/form/from
<carlos> we know if it should be fuzzy or not when we create it
<BradB> spiv: we know it is with the email address he reported, yeah. i didn't test with any other.
<daf> carlos: how do we know?
<spiv> BradB: I tested it with my own :)
<BradB> spiv: then it's unsurprising that it wouldn't work on dogfood.
<BradB> daf: that's reported as a bug.
<spiv> Ok, so the dogfood breakage isn't a known issue, but probably the same as the live breakage.
<carlos> daf: because we have already parsed that msgset (when importing from a pofile) and from rosetta we also know if we have all needed translations
<BradB> spiv: that's my hunch
<spiv> So if we fix the dogfood breakage, then all we need to do is find this mysterious live launchpad and roll out the fix there :)
<daf> BradB: groovy -- so if, I have a bug number, it's trivial to construct a link to that bug, right?
<BradB> spiv: not live launchpad, ubuntulinux.org
<BradB> daf: yeah
<spiv> BradB: Well, yeah, but where is it's forgotten password page coming from?
<spiv> BradB: It's not plone, from what you say.
<daf> carlos: the user interface code shouldn't have to decide whether a message is complete or not
<BradB> spiv: er, yeah, no idea there
<daf> carlos: I think the DB code should do that work
<spiv> BradB: Hence "mysterious live launchpad" :)
<BradB> yes, i know what you mean now :P
<carlos> daf: ok, then, how?
<spiv> Ok, ta.
<spiv> debonzi: ping?
<debonzi> spiv, pong
<BradB> spiv: you can reset it in the db manually though
<BradB> spiv: can you sudo to launchpad on mawson?
<carlos> daf: If we call several times to the makeTranslationSighting it's too difficult to track all translations
<spiv> debonzi: do you know why the forgotten password page on dogfood is broken?
<BradB> spiv: er, wait, you didn't forget your password anyway though, right?
<daf> carlos: if (len(self.translationSightings()) == self.pluralForms): self.iscomplete = True
<daf> carlos: ?
<BradB> because you've been submitting bugs...
<spiv> BradB: I've forgotten andrew@canonical.com...
<spiv> BradB: But I remember andrew+test@canonical.com :)
<BradB> hehe
<debonzi> spiv, no idea.. Im not working on it since the sprint
<spiv> BradB: You win points for observation, though :)
<BradB> heh
<debonzi> spiv, but I can check if you want
<spiv> debonzi: that'd be good, I'm getting ForbiddenAttribute: ('getPersonFromDatabase', <canonical.auth.AuthApplication object at 0x46504f8c>)
<BradB> spiv: there's already a bugzilla bug where i clarified that
<carlos> daf: ok, I get the idea
<BradB> spiv: (that steve's the one to bug, and that i spoke to debonzi about it)
<BradB> i guess you're not Cc'd on it, perhaps
<spiv> BradB: Yeah, I saw.
<daf> carlos: it makes sense?
<carlos> daf: but what about the fuzzy flag?
<daf> carlos: yeah, the fuzzy flag must be explicit, I think
<carlos> daf: if I have four plural forms and I put there only three
<carlos> we agree that the translator will set/unset it explicit
<spiv> BradB: But if we fix it for dogfood, hopefully it'll be trivial for Steve to fix the live one when he returns :)
<daf> I mean explicit in the call to the makeMessageSet...
<carlos> but if they don't give us enough pluralforms
<carlos> ok
<carlos> so that will be set from the UI code
<daf> I've changed my mind about the fuzzy flag
<daf> I think fuzziness and completeness should be orthogonal in the database, but related on export
<carlos> :-?
<carlos> could you then give me a propossal?
<BradB> oh yeah, ok, cool, useful debugging output.
<carlos> :-)
<daf> carlos: sure :)
<daf> carlos: ok, so I think a translator should be able to mark a message set non-fuzzy even if it is not complete
<daf> carlos: but if a message set is not complete, it should be fuzzy on export
<daf> carlos: this method means we don't have to set fuzzy flags on import
<carlos> ok
<daf> how does it sound?
<carlos> It's ok for me, I don't have a preference about all this as soon as it's consistent
<carlos> it's another approach and I see it as valid as the previous one
<daf> ok, sorry for being slow to get this decided
<debonzi> spiv, seems to me that IPasswordResets is not right
<daf> did I answer your question?
<carlos> let me think about it looking for "problems"
<daf> ok, I think maybe I need a bit more sleep
<debonzi> spiv, ops.. wait
<carlos> so when we import a po file, if we have all plural forms, iscomplete = TRUE if it's fuzzy or it lacks a plural form iscomplete = FALSE
<carlos> fuzzy = TRUE only if the msgset is fuzzy in the pofile
<daf> iscomplete = TRUE if we have all translations
<daf> fuzzy = TRUE if it has the fuzzy flag
<debonzi> spiv, yes.. but it is in IAuthApplication .. it does not define getPersonFromDatabase
<daf> that's all
<daf> on export: fuzzy = ((fuzzy = TRUE) or (iscomplete = FALSE))
<carlos> from the website, fuzzy as the translator sets it and iscomplete= TRUE only if we have all pluralforms
<carlos> ok
<daf> yes
<carlos> I think we will not have any hard problem with this model
<daf> yeah, I think it's slightly easier than the previous revision
<spiv> debonzi: That would explain it :)
<carlos> yes
<carlos> we fix .po files we will export
<carlos> and don't touch .po files we import
<daf> yep
<daf> it's nice because it meets "be liberal in what you accept and careful in what you generate"
<debonzi> spiv, also, EmailAddress is used inside auth/__init__.py but is not imported
<spiv> debonzi: Heh.  Badly broken :)
<carlos> daf: true
<debonzi> spiv, and there are some more little thinks :) do you want me to fix it?
<debonzi> s/thinks/things
<spiv> debonzi: Yes please :)
<debonzi> spiv, right
<salgado> BradB: ping?
<debonzi> spiv, fixed.. Ill merge it into rocketfuel
<spiv> debonzi: Great :)
<spiv> debonzi: Thank you
<BradB> salgado: pong
<debonzi> spiv, no problem :)
<salgado> BradB: did you removed pkgurgency and binaries from ISourcePackageRelease?
<BradB> salgado: Yep, as mentioned yesterday I fixed ISourcePackageRelease to what it used to be, so that it does what it's expected to do (i.e. be an ISourcePackageRelease.)
<BradB> salgado: You'll need to create a new interface for the view.
<BradB> s/be an ISourcePackageRelease/be a schema for a source package release/
<salgado> BradB: but pkgurgency and binaries already was in ISourcePackageRelease, they're not part of our view
<BradB> salgado: I don't get it, why would they be schema attributes?
<BradB> there's already "urgency", which surely must be the same as pkgurgency, and if not, one of them needs renaming
<salgado> BradB: pkgurgency is a property to translate urgency using dbschema
<BradB> salgado: I'm not sure if that's a common way to handle that, but I don't think we should do that. Schemas are meant to describe what kind of data we want to store.
<BradB> it turns out that those dbschema vocabs are just more trouble than they're worth, I think
<BradB> if that stuff were stored in tables, life would be easier (because we could simple do dot access on the relevant sqlobject properties to get the title, instead of BugStatusVocabulary.items[foo.bar] .title, etc.)
<salgado> BradB: the fact is that we need pkgurgency in ISourcePackegeRelease, cause if it's not there, classes implementing this Interface will break, as they access pkgurgency
<BradB> i checked in the change because the tests told me i didn't break anything.
<BradB> feel free to add them back though, but i'd suggest first writing a test that breaks because they're not there, and then adding them to make the test pass.
<BradB> (this might mean generating a functional doctest, which is even better, because you don't have to write any code.)
* BradB emails lp@ with some tips on what you need to hack to make functional doctests that pass.
<salgado> BradB: can you please cc to salgado@async.com.br ?
<BradB> sure
<salgado> thanks
<salgado> BradB: is there something I need to do before running make check?
<BradB> salgado: nope
<daf> INVALID SIGNATURE ON REVISION!
<daf>   archive: rocketfuel@canonical.com
<daf>   revision launchpad--devel--0--patch-736
<daf>   checksum file: checksum
<daf> ?!
<carlos> daf: press the arch HELP button :-)
<daf> I'm looking for it! :)
<daf> > tla panic
<daf> tla: unrecognized command (panic)
<carlos> :-P
<carlos> daf: I found the problem to this new approach (sorry O:-))
<daf> :)
<daf> what is it?
<carlos> daf: it's solved adding a precondition before calling to makeTranslationSighting
<carlos> the fuzzy flag should be set/removed before calling makeTranslationSighting
<daf> why?
<carlos> because that also controlls the iscomplete
<daf> no, it doesn't
<carlos> if it's fuzzy it's not complete
<daf> no
<carlos> no?
<daf> fuzzy and completeness are not related
<carlos> so fuzzy=TRUE and iscomplete=TRUE is valid?
<daf> of course
<carlos> ok, that also changed since yesterday :-)
<daf> "complete, but needs review"
<carlos> ok
<carlos> # Explicit set of iscomplete
<carlos>         # If we have all translations, it's complete, if we lack a
<carlos>         # translation, it's not complete. Also, it's not complete if it's
<carlos>         # fuzzy.
<carlos>         if None in self.translations():
<carlos>             # The set is not complete
<carlos>             self.iscomplete = False
<carlos>         else:
<carlos>             self.iscomplete = True
<carlos> that's the code added to makeTranslationSighting
<daf> complete ONLY means "has the correct number of translations"
<carlos> ok
<daf> the two flags are only related on export
<carlos> hmm /s/Explicit/implicit/
<carlos> and forget the fuzzy comment
<daf> looks good
<daf> we should update the documentation
<carlos> I know
<carlos> I'm also trying to guess how to write a unittest for this change
<carlos> or should It be a functional test?
<daf> hmm
<daf> I think it would be difficult to make a unit tet
<daf> test
<carlos> daf: yeah, I discarted it already
<cprov> daf|carlos: do you know how to delete a row using SQLO ? 
<daf> cprov: I think it's in The Guide
<carlos> cprov: not sure if it's the same, but SQLObject.delete() should remove it
<carlos> hmmm
<carlos> SQLO == SQLObject
<carlos> right?
<cprov> carlos: aha, yes
<carlos> I need to sleep more...
<cprov> carlos: lol
<cprov> daf:our guide in wiki ?
<carlos> cprov: yes
<daf> cprov: https://wiki.canonical.com/SQLObjectGuide#head-d6f5636098cd458ce9d22939f8e3e8deab0e9bd0
<carlos> www.sqlobject.org has also some documentation
<salgado> cprov: obj.destroySelf() or cls.delete(id)
<cprov> daf: carlos: salgado: thanks
<daf> carlos: I've already gone to sleep once since I got up :)
<carlos> daf: :-D
* carlos leaves to go to the cinema
<carlos> see you later
<carlos> good weekend if I don't see you before Monday
<debonzi> carlos, have fun
!alindeman:*! Hi all!  The irssi project is redesigning their website and are having a contest, looking for the person who comes up with the best design for the new site.  If you're interested, please see the rules on http://www.irssi.org/ and join #irssi-site
#launchpad 2004-11-17
-dmwaters(dmwaters@dmwaters-gentoo.staff.freenode)- {global notice} Hi all! We're having problems with one of our major european hubs, I'm attempting to work around the problem. I appologize for the problems, and thank you for using freenode!
<sabdfl> daf: you watching?
<cprov> stub: ping
<stub> yo
<stub> cprov: pong
<cprov> stub: hi, dude !! working on weekend :) Are the two Newest PGViews from kiko commited ?
<BradB> stub: you're not fixing any of the bugs reported in malone, are you? it's probably best if noone else works on them until we figure out a sane workflow for resolving bugs (because i've fixed a few of the bugs reported already, but there exists no way yet to resolve and ignore them)
<stub> BradB: I talked to mark on Friday night. He likes bug summary and description, so might be a bit early to pull it.
<BradB> He'd be the only one who does. :)
<stub> cprov: The views are in that kiko sent to launchpad. I got an email from salgado with an update to it.
<stub> salgado's aren't in
<cprov> stub: no, I'm not working on Malone bugs ... 
<cprov> stub: no salgado isn't in, but I suppose those view he sent you are "drop the two broken and insert new ones" 
<stub> BradB: No - not working on the bugs I sumitted into Malone. Just thoughts so they wouldn't get lost :)
<stub> cprov: yes.
<cprov> stub: the code is updated and expect the new views
<stub> cprov: ok. I'll push them in after I wake up today.
<BradB> stub: what's the legitimate reason behind keeping summary in there? virtually every bug i've reported i've copied and pasted the title into summary to try and figure out how to fill that field with something. non-malone-developers will be confused.
<BradB> i have to decide whether it's worth fixing the page tests right now to account for the removed field. i hope it is.
<cprov> stub: lol, thanks
<stub> BradB: The reason is so it can be used in tooltips and similar on the bug search pages. Which we aren't at the moment, and probably isn't a good idea.
<BradB> i think simply reading the title is sufficient for that purpose
<stub> It is useful for display, but I don't think Mark quite appreciates how annoying it is during initial entry.
<BradB> i'm desparately lazy. i'll be really disappointed if malone doesn't support desparately lazy users.
<stub> (if 70% of our bugs don't warrent both a description and a summary, our users are being pissed off 70% of the time)
<stub> Mark was talking about sticking some sort of template for the users to fill out in the description trying to elicit details, but that seems a gross hack to me and will just fill up the DB with crap. 
<BradB> stub: what might be cooler is to have the diagnosis be the thing that comes up in a tooltip. the title should be worded clearly enough to make the reader say "oh yeah, that one". if hovering their mouse over it then gives them the blurb on what's causing the problem, that'd be cool, but then, i can't even be arsed to aim my mouse at a bug long enough for a tooltip to come up. i just end up clicking.
<stub> Yup. diagnosis could be our way out.
* stub goes to bed
<spiv> We'll see what Mark thinks after all the summaries turn out to be "See description" ;)
<BradB> heh heh
* BradB proposes a patch: UPDATE bug SET shortdesc = "See description";
!lilo:*! Hi all.  If you can help with French <-> English translation, please message me
#launchpad 2004-11-18
<BradB> spiv: it's amazing how non-trivial it is to format bug report text and comment text.
<BradB> (until browsers support CSS 2.1 anyway)
<spiv> BradB: I know :)
* BradB gave up for now
<spiv> "wrap: pre" or something.
<BradB> yeah, but that's the same as pre just about
<BradB> it's white-space: pre
<spiv> Basically the choices are <pre> or give up :)
<BradB> i want CSS 2.1's: white-space: pre-wrap (or pre-line)
<spiv> Yeah.
<BradB> and then it Just Works
<BradB> or ZPT needs a special case to output tr/\n/<br \/>/
<BradB> s/tr/s/
<BradB> tal:content="linebreaks foo" or something
<spiv> BradB: I know that planet.twistedmatrix.com uses "white-space: pre-wrap -moz-pre-wrap -opera-pre-wrap -o-pre-wrap -pre-wrap;" :)
<spiv> And "overflow: auto;", which is cute.
<spiv> (That site is a Planet for the Twisted community)
<BradB> that actually works? hm
* BradB will give a shot shortly
<spiv> I don't know if it works, I just know it's in the CSS :)
<BradB> that site is screwed up in safari. the logo, about, extra stuff in the left column appears after all the blog entries.
<spiv> Blah :(
<spiv> Yeah, same in konquerr.
<spiv> Hmm, although that might be the fault of the broken entry.
<BradB> after i learned of the web developer plugin for firefox, i'm more or less ready to drop safari for any serious work
<spiv> Yeah, it's awesome.
<carlos> what does that plugin?
<BradB> allows you to see, for example, the css that's being able to whatever you aim your pointer at
<BradB> some cool form stuff
<BradB> in short, it gives you much, much more info about the page you're looking at (the kinds of more detailed things you might want to know if you're developing the thing you're looking at), and gives you finer grained control over how you submit forms and such.
<spiv> And also trivial but handy things like "resize to 800x600".
<BradB> spiv: what does "-" signify in CSS like "white-space: -foo" then?
<carlos> interesting ....
<spiv> A non-standard attribute that the browser implementor wants to provide, but doesn't want to risk clashing with a future standardd 
<BradB> cool.
<spiv> So in this case, pre-wrap was specified in a CSS 2.1 or CSS 3 draft spec, or something, and so this is how Moz and friends support these features without clashing  with the final spec if it turns out to be different :)
<spiv> As I understand it, anyway.  I can't remember where I read all this.
#launchpad 2004-11-19
<carlos> BradB: is it normal?: Posted by  165  at  2004-11-07 08:48 PM
<carlos> BradB: it's from a comment added to the ubuntu website
<carlos> seems like it's using the id instead of the real name or nick name
<BradB> there's a bug for that
<BradB> i had that working; i'm not yet sure what broke it, because i haven't looked
<carlos> ok, I was browsing the we and saw it, not sure if it was a know bug
<BradB> hm, i guess a malone bug doesn't have an "absolute url".
<BradB> it seems to me we need to give locations to our objects in order to, for example, provide URL's to bugs in notification emails.
<BradB> as it stands, a bug container doesn't contain bugs
<BradB> it just looks like it does, but there's no true container/contained relationship there.
<stub> We need an absolute URL - just hasn't been done yet. It will be particularly important if we get to doing bugtracker virtual hosting for projects (gnome.launchpad.org)
<BradB> well, sure, that's exactly the problem i'm pondering
<BradB> it seems to me that without locations though, bugs can't have absolute URL's
<BradB> i.e. without implemented IContained
<BradB> and bug containers implementing IContainer
<BradB> s/implemented/implementing/
<BradB> i need this right now, for notification emails.
<stub> The Z3 mechanism is to use an adapter to IAbsoluteURL, which is how I would expect it to be implemented. It doesn't require containment (although I had all that stuff in an earlier implementation of Malone, and it worked quite well that way).
<stub> As a quick fix, it would involve writing an adapter from IBug -> IAbsoluteURL that just hardcodes the URL
<BradB> yep, that doesn't work though
<BradB> because of VH'ing
<stub> And this could be replaced with a non hardcoded url later
<BradB> how can something that doesn't have a home have an absolute URL?
<stub> Because you give it one - you could give an object an absolute url of www.google.com?q=Malone%20Bug%206543 if you want, although that would be rather... ummm.... odd.
<stub> We would need to determine 'one true url' for objects though if they can be accessed in different contexts (launchpad.ubuntu.com/bugs/12, gnome.ubuntu.com/bugs/12, launchpad.ubuntu.com/projects/gnome/bugs/12)
<stub> Which is a UI decision
<BradB> i wonder why we don't just use locations
<stub> locations?
<BradB> since by not using them, our containers, well, aren't.
<BradB> IContainer/IContained
<stub> oh.
<stub> It is because SteveA has been arguing about the the differences between containment and traversal
<stub> I don't see a problem with organising our stuff in a containment heirarchy though.
<BradB> me neither, particularly since our naming scheme gives the impression that we have containers and objects contained in them, when we in fact don't.
<stub> (Like I said - I had it like that at one stage.  I pulled it to make the code more similar to the Rosetta and Soyuz implementations.
<stub> Which is why Malone has containers and other tools have sets ;)
<BradB> ah
<BradB> that term would make a hell of a lot more sense
<stub> Although that implementation had problems, because it was setting __parent__ during traversal, which meant only objects traversed to had it set up properly.
<BradB> setting __parent__ during /traversal/? eek.
<BradB> i'd expect __parent__ gets set when an object is added to a container
<stub> I've since learnt about descriptors which are probably the correct way of doing it.
<stub> Bug.__parent__ would need to be a descriptor that calls getUtility(IBugContainer)
<stub> Or we can pull out that Utility bullshit since we don't need to switch between PostgreSQL/stub implementations any more
<stub> (Hmmm.... probably best leave that in or we have to reengineer the entire traversal mechanism for Malone)
<BradB> stub: as long as we've got true containment relationships, absolute URL's seem like a SMOP
<stub> SMOP?
<BradB> simple matter of programming
<BradB> without that, i have no idea how we do an IAbsoluteURL adapter that works with VH'ing.
<stub> If we have true containment relationships, the programming already exists (There are already adapters from IContained -> IAbsoluteURL)
<BradB> yeah, that makes sense.
* BradB can't wait till Zope 3 is Googlable
<stub> I think we can go with a hardcoded IAbsoluteURL adapter for Bug right now (we aren't doing vhosting yet, although we might need to interrogate request or set an environment variable to determine the server url.
<BradB> well "hardcoded", but not, because it has to be able to work when developing locally.
<BradB> hardcoded at least to the point that it's $SERVER_URL + "/malone/bugs/" + bug.id
<stub> Do we have access to request as a global now?
<stub> I think we do, but can't remember how to access it...
<BradB> not that i'm aware of (which isn't to say there isn't though)...i don't know if there's a utility that can give you the request.
<BradB> in stock Z3, there doesn't seem to be such a thing.
<BradB> then it's just r.getApplicationURL() + "/malone/bugs/" + str(bug.id) sorta thing
<stub> Jim was writing thread specific globals, which has been fed into the threading module in python 2.4 IIRC
<BradB> wow
<BradB> speaking of which ++apidoc++ really needs to not raise a NotFoundError on favicon.ico
<stub> ++apidoc++ needs its cool tree icons too...
<stub> oh... I hacked my local Z3 to fix that.
<BradB> yeah, i remember you mentioning it somewhere, couldn't remember what it was though.
<stub> I thought it was a bug in the favicon implementation, so was hoping Steve would look into it.
<stub> There are two page templates mentioning favicon in the apidoc area - remove those bits.
<BradB> ah yeah
<BradB> bradb@oxygen:~/launchpad/lp/sourcecode/zope/src/zope/app/apidoc/browser$ grep -rn favico *
<BradB> details_macros.pt:25:          tal:attributes="href context/++resource++favicon.png" />
<BradB> menu_macros.pt:27:          tal:attributes="href context/++resource++favicon.png" />
<stub> Ahh sod. SteveA doesn't have an account on lunchfood
<stub> Can't assign him bugs ;)
<BradB> heheh...he doesn't? eeek.
<BradB> he does
<stub> ok - I need to go pay for my Barcelona tickets and get some groceries. Any bugs you think I should be looking at when I get back, or do you want me to look at the IAbsoluteURL stuff?
<BradB> you could look at formatting bug report text and comment text if you want.
<BradB> <pre> and s/\n/<br \/>/ are, of course, not viable options, so have fun
<stub> Has there been a decision on how that is actually supposed to be done?
<stub> oic - make it up, make it sane.
<BradB> no idea...
<BradB> stub: no, it's simpler than that, but much harder.
<BradB> stub: the only thing i mean by "formatting" is to have everything look precisely as it looks now, except that user-entered line breaks should show as line breaks when rendered
<stub> Which sounds like newline-to-br, but you said that isn't a viable option?
<BradB> insecure
<stub> it is if you htmlquote as part of the procedure (?)
<BradB> hm?
<stub> def newline_to_br(txt): return htmlquote(txt).replace('\n','<br/>'
<stub> )
<BradB> ah
<BradB> yeah, that looks good
<stub> ok. I'll knock that up and some sort of TAL syntax to make it not suck
<BradB> yeah, that's what i was hoping for (tal syntax)
<BradB> is this something that'll be fixed in z3 then?
<stub> It might already be there for all I know - "structure context/foo/zope:newline_to_br" or something similar. I'll ask about rolling it back to Z3 if it isn't in there already.
<BradB> ok
(Kinnison/#launchpad) I guess it's good that I never quite get to the coding stage before the glaring bug stares back at me and makes itself known
* Kinnison ponders whiteboarding this one
<SteveA> Kinnison: it's usually possible to write some of the tests before even thinking about the algorithm
<Kinnison> SteveA: the issue I have is that the algorithm I end up choosing will, to an extent, dictate the data structures the function needs to be given
<Kinnison> SteveA: I can't write "testbinarydomination" until I know what _dominateBinaries() will need to be passed to do its job
* SteveA admits that he has no idea what dominating binaries involves
<Kinnison> I think I've gone full-circle back to the simpler algorithm so I'm almost ready :-)
<Kinnison> well, Domination is in the glossary :-)
<Kinnison> SteveA: how was your holiday?
<SteveA> Kinnison: it was very good.  went to sicily and lounged around and ate well and walked up hills
<Kinnison> sounds good
<Kinnison> Morning cprov, salgado 
<salgado> morning Kinnison
<Kinnison> soyuz people: Given a binarypackage.id how do you decide what architecture it is for?
<Kinnison> Esp. how do you decide if it is arch-specific or arch-independant?
<Kinnison> Anyone?
<salgado> Kinnison: BynaryPackage.build.processor ?
<Kinnison> well, binarypackage.build.processor.processorfamily gets me most of the way there
<Kinnison> but it doesn't tell me which of the binarypackage rows are arch-independant
<Kinnison> Unless we create an arch-independant processor or something; but that won't sit right with the rest of the publishing stuff
<debonzi> Kinnison, another way is packagepublishing.distroarchrelease.processorfamily
<Kinnison> again; doesn't help on the whole arch-specific vs. arch-independant thing
<Kinnison> elmo: ping?
<debonzi> Kinnison, uhmmmm .. I think I dont know the arch-independant concept .. what you mean with it?
<Kinnison> binary packages are either specific to a given architecture or are shared among all of them
<Kinnison> E.g. vim is arch-specific, but vim-common is arch-independant
<Kinnison> I.E. vim-common is arch: all
<debonzi> Kinnison, right.. I see 
* debonzi thinks a bit
<debonzi> Kinnison, is it too stupid to have and processorfamily.name='all'? does it hurt any concept?
<Kinnison> erm; where did that extra ping come from I wonder
<Kinnison> flarp
* Kinnison loses control of his irc client
<Kinnison> please wait while I try to restore normality
<debonzi> Kinnison, :)
<Kinnison> there; better
<lifeless> Kinnison: did you see anything in the CVS protocol that would let me probe for the remote servers time ?
<Kinnison> debonzi: right; where do we link that in?
<Kinnison> It's going to cause all sorts of amusing issues with referential integrity IMO
<debonzi> Kinnison, you mean witch page?
<Kinnison> page? I'm thinking of the database itself
* Kinnison is trying to work out how the hell lucille is going to manage arch:all packages built as part of an arch:any sourcepackage
<debonzi> Kinnison, oohhh.. sorry.. I missunderstood
<Kinnison> Because currently there's no way to actually determine the architecture of a package referenced in a publishing record
<Kinnison> The most I can say is "it is most likely to be <foo arch>"
* Kinnison thinks he needs to sit with elmo (and probably mark) and try to hammer this our
<Kinnison> s/our$/out/
* debonzi debonzi thinks Kinnison thinks right
<carlos> morning
<debonzi> carlos, morning
<Kinnison> Morning carlos
<lifeless> Kinnison: ping
<Kinnison> lifeless: pong
<lifeless> lifeless> Kinnison: did you see anything in the CVS protocol that would let me probe for the remote servers time ?
* Kinnison does't remember. Let me check
<Kinnison> Nope
<lifeless> :[
<Kinnison> lifeless: Any particular reason to want it?
<lifeless> yeah, to filter commits that are in progress
<Kinnison> oh blergh; yeah
* Kinnison workraves
<carlos> hmm, any explanation about this: /home/carlos/Work/dists/launchpad/lib/canonical/lp/sql.py:51: FutureWarning: Need to set add_missing_from=false in /etc/postgresql/postgresql.conf
<salgado-afk> carlos: I think this is to help finding out bad queries
<carlos> ok
<salgado-afk> this way, postgres will not add missing from clauses in queries, and then the query will break. 
<carlos> lunch time
<Kinnison> FAILED (failures=12, errors=4)
<Kinnison> anyone else getting lots of 'make check' errors?
<Kinnison> 80-add-comment.txt
<BradB> the code checked in on chinstrap passes all the tests when run on chinstrap
<Kinnison> bumflakes.
<Kinnison> I've done a blank database schema make too
<BradB> what does the exception look like?
<BradB> (for one of the failing func tests)
<Kinnison> Failed example:
<Kinnison>     print http(r"""
<Kinnison>     GET /malone/bugs/2/ HTTP/1.1
<Kinnison>     Referer: http://localhost:9000/malone/bugs/2
<Kinnison>     """)
<BradB> paste.husk.org for the full tb
<Kinnison> http://paste.husk.org/1956
<BradB> Kinnison: you're running the tests with "make check" presumably?
<Kinnison> yep
<Kinnison> on a fresh db
<BradB> what had you just changed?
<Kinnison> I just star-merged :-)
* Kinnison checks if launchpad is missing any of his patches
<BradB> Kinnison: have you cd database/schema; make'd lately?
<Kinnison> Like I said.. a fresh db
<Kinnison> launchpad is not missing anything from me
* BradB wonders why Mark Shuttleworth is duplicated three times there
<BradB> Kinnison: are there any other func tests failing?
<Kinnison> BradB: yes
* Kinnison tees the output to a file for you
<BradB> wee hee, tee!
<BradB> my hunch is that there's something b0rked about your configuration, not yet sure what though.
<Kinnison> quite possible
<BradB> dude, try this
<BradB> hm, well, it's a bit of a longshot, but...
<BradB> drop your DB's first
<Kinnison> the schema make does
<BradB> yeah, actually PgTest does it in between stories too, urph
<Kinnison> right
<Kinnison> https://chinstrap.warthogs.hbd.com/~dsilvers/launchpad-make-check.txt
<Kinnison> If you can spot the obvious problem which has eluded me; you win a prize
<BradB> i don't know what the u/p is to access that page
<BradB> just mail it to me: bradb@bbnet.ca
* Kinnison sends it to whatever evolution already has for you
<Kinnison> which I think is @canonical.com
<BradB> Kinnison: have you got a connection open to launchpad_ftest atm? it's worth verifying.
<Kinnison> nup
<BradB> your db isn't getting reset properly.
<Kinnison> fresh bootup
<BradB> there's a connection open to launchpad_ftest when there shouldn't be. due to that, it fails to reset the db.
<BradB> put an import pdb; pdb.set_trace() in lib/canonical/ftests/pgsql.py, line 72.
<BradB> and then "n" over:
<BradB>             name = zapi.getUtility(IConnectionName).name
<BradB>             db_adapter = zapi.getUtility(IZopeDatabaseAdapter, name)
<BradB>             if db_adapter.isConnected():
<BradB>                 # we have to disconnect long enough to drop
<BradB>                 # and recreate the DB
<BradB>                 db_adapter.disconnect()
<BradB> (which is code i added to disconnect from the db, so that statements further down can drop it)
<BradB> and make sure it doesn't raise a ComponentLookup error the second time through onwards (the first time through it does, because the config hasn't been loaded for that func test)
<Kinnison> Okay; let me finish this food and I'll do that
<Kinnison> running...
<BradB> and, if it doesn't raise a CLE, then you could step down to the place where it drops the DB and then look at what other connections are open to launchpad_ftests
<BradB> s/ftests/ftest/
<Kinnison> still waiting...
<Kinnison> it didn't stop
<BradB> eh, something sounds very b0rked about your config
<BradB> it might be that you have another version of the code installed somewhere else, i dunno.
* Kinnison shrugs
<carlos> SteveA: hey, welcomed back
<SteveA> hi carlos
<cprov> Hi everybody, I apologize for not be present today ...
<cprov> Kinnison: any new about publishing system ? do you need help ? I need :), how to get librarian interface for sourcefiles portlet in sourcepackage page ?
<Kinnison> The launchpad instance should probably have a global instance of canonical.librarian.client.FileDownloadClient which has been initialised according to some global config somewhere (I don't understand zope so you'll have to get someone who does to do that bit)
<Kinnison> Then you can simply call fooobject.getFileByAlias(the_file_alias)
<Kinnison> where fooobject is that FileDownloadClient instance
<Kinnison> the alias is the value of the column libraryfile in sourcepackagereleasefile
<cprov> Kinnison: great !! there is something already published to play ? Any idead about how will be the behavior to download an .orig or .deb using Zope ? 
<Kinnison> anything gina has imported has those files in the librarian ready
<Kinnison> no idea how you would stream it through zope
<Kinnison> I have a patch (uncomitted) which would allow you to get the URL out; but I haven't finished and tested it yet
<Kinnison> I could bubble that to the top of my todo if you'd like
* Kinnison might be able to get it done later tonight (about 23:00 my time) since I'm going out at 18:00 for shopping and to go to a restaurant
<cprov> Kinnison: yes, or if you'd like help for test it, just send it to me 
<Kinnison> It has some utf-8 changes in it too; so I'll have to test it well first
<cprov> Kinnison: ok, as you want, just let me know if you need help
* BradB never knew you could do foo = `bar` in Python
<cprov> BradB: what do you mean ? bar = 2; foo = `bar`, then foo is '2' ...is it tricky ?
<BradB> it's surprising
<BradB> `` is normally for stringifying the output of a shell command, where i come from. odd that python ok's things like ``, but not (foo ? bar : baz)
* BradB takes a copy of the ubuntu site to debug an ugly perms problem
<BradB> SteveA: ping
<SteveA> hi brad
<cprov> BradB: aha, it surprises me too 
<BradB> SteveA: hey! how was your vacation?
<SteveA> thanks, it was great
<SteveA> I'm very refreshed
<BradB> good to hear
<BradB> SteveA: we've got a problem with placelessness now.
<BradB> SteveA: i want to be able to provide a URL to a bug, e.g. in a notification email
<BradB> as well, i'm sure there are lots of places we either do, or will want to provide an absolute URL for a given object (a bug, a source package release, a whatever)
<BradB> in a placeful world, this is simple (and, AFAIK, well-supported in Z3, with an adapter from IContained to IAbsoluteURL)
<SteveA> well, kind of
<BradB> how do I provide an absolute URL for things that don't live anywhere though?
<SteveA> it is actually a little more trickly than that
<BradB> SteveA: point being though, if i implemented IContained, getting my absolute url in Z3 Just Works, right?
<Kinnison> BradB: would it amuse you to know that having had a snack; the ftests run okay now?
<BradB> Kinnison: computers suck
<Kinnison> BradB: I blame a gremlin
<SteveA> it's trickier than that
<SteveA> consider the situation where you want an XMLRPC request on an internal ip address and port to signal the sending of email
<SteveA> but, the email will need to have the official URL used
<SteveA> one element is the domain and protocol and port to use.  another element is the path of the url to use
<BradB> SteveA: that's trivial to work around though
<BradB> e.g. with /etc/hosts
<SteveA> the path can be handled with a correct absolute url implementation  
<SteveA> not with /etc/hosts, I think
<SteveA> I don't think we need IContained
<BradB> or just using the real url?
<BradB> it seems to me we do. i have zero understanding of how to provide an absolute url that works with VH'ing for objects that have no location.
<BradB> SteveA: what's your proposal for providing an absolute url to a placeless object?
<BradB> the only way i can see is to make some assumptions about the $SERVER_URL, which will not obey the principal of least surprise, i think.
<SteveA> right now, I have some ideas, and some principles.  I need to consider this properly, though.  Right now, I'm up to mid-thursday's email ;-)
<SteveA> Shall we chat about this tomorrow morning (your time) ?
<BradB> sure. i'll be around by 14:00 GMT
<SteveA> ok, great
<BradB> SteveA: another issue of pressing concern is answering the question "when do we consider a bug 'resolved'?"
<BradB> maybe you, mark, stub and I need to chat about that one
<SteveA> in malone, or in our own processes?
<SteveA> I guess you mean in malone
<BradB> in malone. we've got a couple dozen bugs reported, several of which are fixed, but we have no way of signalling that currently
<BradB> (or, at the least, if it's doable, it's entirely unclear how to mark a bug "resolved")
<SteveA> there's a resolved in the DBSchema status isn't there?
<BradB> i don't see it in the UI, so i guess not
<BradB> there is a "Fixed" on infestations, and a "Closed" on assignments, but that's a few levels of indirection, i.e. confusing.
<BradB> i don't want to have to mark something infested to be able to say i fixed that bug.
<SteveA> so, something with no infestation should be considered "Fixed" by default ?
<BradB> no. the only assumption about a bug with no reported infestation is that noone reported an infestation.
<BradB> you've got:
<BradB> 1. a bug report, which describes something that isn't working as expected.
<BradB> 2. an assignment to zero one or more packages or products, which is simply a way of getting that bug in the face of the person who should see it (e.g. the maintainer of the source package.)
<BradB> 3. infestations, which say precisely which versions are affected by this bug, and exactly how they're affected.
<BradB> in many real world scenarios, the bug will be so quick to fix that going to the effort of #3 won't be worth it.
<BradB> but then, let's say you're doing a listing of bugs that are outstanding. how do you know which bugs haven't been fixed? what if all the "assignments" are "closed", but there's somehow still an infestation or two that are marked as "affected" (instead of "fixed")?
<SteveA> and, what about bogus bugs?
<SteveA> it should be easy to say "not a bug"
<BradB> you can mark infestations as "won't fix"
<BradB> but again, that requires two levels of indirection, if you will (e.g. assigning to a package, and then specifying an infested version of that package too)
<BradB> the workflow really needs some thinking through (i've reported a bug for it in malone)
<SteveA> ok
<SteveA> it's a recurring problem in launchpad -- we're modeling complex things, but we have pretty simple overall actions sometimes
<BradB> is there a meeting on wednesday? maybe we can discuss it then.
<SteveA> Did stu arrange a time for the next meeting at the end of wednesday's one?
<sabdfl> hi all
<SteveA> hiya
<sabdfl> hey SteveA, have a good break?
<kiko> hello mark
<BradB> SteveA: no
<BradB> hi sabdfl 
<sabdfl> kiki!
<kiko> !
<sabdfl> am just catching up now
<sabdfl> refueling
<sabdfl> any immediate news?
<SteveA> BradB: I think this is something best disussed among you malone folks, perhaps with some input from james or kinnison
<SteveA> sabdfl: great break.  very refreshed.  still catching up on email / code.
* kiko catches up on tons of weekend email
<BradB> sabdfl: two pressing issues in malone: 1. how to get a URL to a bug (seems like a bit of a doozy with placeless objects), and perhaps slightly more urgent 2. answering the question "is this bug resolved?"
* Kinnison -> out, I'll bbl
<sabdfl> bradb: regarding number 2: "it depends on your perspective", it depends on the assignment to your context
<sabdfl> for example, if you are upstream, then check the product assignment
<BradB> what if an assignment is "closed", but the infestation says "affected"? what if there's an infested release of a product for which there's been no assignment of the bug to that product?
<BradB> more specifically, several of the bugs at https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs shouldn't be showing, because they're already fixed. i don't know how to decide which ones to show and not show though.
<SteveA> brad and I are going to talk in detail about 1 tomorrow
<sabdfl> BradB: yes, that page is just listing every bug in the system
<sabdfl> i guess a "show me the bugs view" is useless without a context
<sabdfl> need to show the bugs for a product or source package
<sabdfl> or possible a project or distro, which are aggregates of products and packages respectively
<BradB> yes, i think the mdz's of the world will want a god view
<BradB> there's a third pressing issue to note too, which is the need for a combo box (it's exceedingly difficult to choose values for certain fields currently)
* SteveA --> gym
<BradB> sabdfl: (sticking with #2 for the moment) by "context" do you mean we turn the bug listing into a search form (e.g. to specify packages assigned to, products assigned to, etc.) with default search params set based on the current user where possible?
<sabdfl> yes
<sabdfl> see the bugs assigned page i've done
<sabdfl> it's basically a search form
<BradB> yeah, ok. the implementation of this gets slightly hairy (because e.g. we need all the package and product assignment and infestation search fields to i. allow us to easily choose from a huge # of options and 2. be multi-select), but i don't see any other way
<BradB> IOW, the search criteria widgets will take up a lot of real estate
<carlos> Do we have already an example about how to create a temporal database to do some funtional tests?
<carlos> I mean, how to integrate it into the make fullcheck command
<carlos> the rosetta functional tests are broken at this moment because all database changes we did
<BradB> inherit from LaunchpadTestCase
<carlos> BradB: is it documented in any place?
* carlos is not talking about page tests
<BradB> carlos: only in the docstring of the class (which is pretty pithy)
<BradB> sorry, there's LaunchpadFunctionalTestCase too (which inherits from LaunchpadTestCase)
<BradB> other than that, i'd just read the other functional test cases
<carlos> ok, thanks
<carlos> hmm
<carlos> I'm trying to file my first bug report with malone
<carlos> for Rosetta
<BradB> file it against the source package rosetta
<carlos> Which ones should be the "Source Package" and Product?
<carlos> yeah, that was my question :-)
<BradB> psychic i am :P
<carlos> BradB: should I select a product?
<BradB> nope
<carlos> I suppose you already know that... but it's not too user friendly...
<carlos> also, the lists should be sorted by name
<carlos> how could I assign the bug or set its severity, priority or just change its status?
<BradB> carlos: yep, malone isn't launchpad friendly, because it's not built for systems like launchpad, but rather for linux distributions with source packages and products.
<BradB> carlos: and there's a bug already filed for sort order (but we need a combo box too, of course)
<BradB> carlos: by editing the package assignment
<carlos> ooh, we need a way to show the user that it's clicking over that field
<carlos> I did not saw that's the way to edit it...
<BradB> ?
<BradB> what do you mean "that it's clicking over that field"?
<BradB> oh, click to edit
<carlos> yes
<carlos> it did not thought about it
<carlos> i did not thought about it
<carlos> hmm, last comment about malone :-P
<carlos> the bug report comes from your mail domain instead of canonical or ubuntu, is that normal?
<carlos> From: 	noreply@bbnet.ca
<carlos> Reply-To: 	noreply@bbnet.ca
<carlos> To: 	carlos.perello@canonical.com
<carlos> Subject: 	'Fix Rosetta functional tests' added
<carlos> Date: 	Mon, 08 Nov 2004 18:58:40 -0000  (19:58 CET)
<BradB> that's fixed, but not deployed
<carlos> ok
<BradB> if you think there are things that are weird about malone, by all means take a look and see if someone's already reported it and if not, feel free to report it.
<carlos> ok
<carlos> Will do, don't worry
<BradB> cool, thanks :)
<carlos> We use hardly the BTS from Rosetta
<daf> BradB: any chance of getting Malone notification emails to include bug numbers any time soon?
<BradB> daf: the idea is to put the URL in there, which isn't trivial. i'll be discussing that with SteveA tomorrow morning
<BradB> elmo: ping
<daf> I think having the bug number would be good enough for now
<daf> to get Dilys working with Malone, at least
<BradB> ah yeah, i could indeed throw it in the subject line
<BradB> to also be consistent with bugzilla
<daf> that would be groovy
<carlos> daf: dilys is not doing her work today, I closed two bugs and did some commits and I don't remember see them in the channel
<daf> hmm
<dilys> test
<dilys> test
<dilys> Bug 2147 resolved: We are not setting the iscomplete flag when a translation has all needed strings
<dilys> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=2147
<daf> ah, found it
<daf> I recently made dilys use a config file, and the Bugzilla address in the config file was wrong
<carlos> daf: :-P
* dilys feels better
* Kinnison sniggers dilys
<SteveA> daf: what is the earliest reasonable time you can attend a launchpad meeting?
<daf> well, I thought 8am was possible, but it seems I was wrong
<dilys> foo
<dilys> say foo
<dilys> me foo
<daf> hmm
<daf> SteveA: I'm willing to try for 8am one more time
<Kinnison> SteveA: are you thinking tomorrow or wednesday?
<carlos> daf: what time is 8am in UTC ?
<daf> carlos: 12:00
<carlos> ok
<SteveA> Kinnison: wednesday
<Kinnison> SteveA: *nod* just thought I'd check and remind myself :-)
<SteveA> let's say 12:30 UTC then.  sound okay?
<daf> fine for me
<carlos> yeah
<Kinnison> yip; sounds good
<SteveA> ok
<SteveA> BradB: 
<BradB> sure
<SteveA> great
* SteveA --> bed
#launchpad 2004-11-20
<dilys> New bug 2160 for Launchpad/Soyuz: Nuclear explosion when no string is input in package search 
<dilys> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=2160
<kiko> hmmm
<kiko> dilys, wake up.
<kiko> I filed at least 10 bugs 
<dilys> kiko: I'm sorry, I wasn't paying attention
<dilys> kiko: care to file them again?
<kiko> I noticed.
<kiko> well, that's not a very good answer, now is it?
<daf> what did you file them against?
<daf> Dilys isn't necessarily subscribed to all products
<kiko> soyuz.
<daf> hmm
<kiko> she probably watches stevea, come to think of it.
<kiko> she should also watch me 
<kiko> there are no product watches in bugzilla currently
<daf> yeah
<daf> they would be handy
<kiko> there are bugs filed on it, but you know..
<daf> :)
<kiko> wild, over 60 spamcop reports for my enjoyment
<daf> ok, I've subscribed Dilys to you
<dilys> kiko: spam me harder!
<kiko> heh
<stub> elmo: Is it possible to turn off certificate authentication on bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com for connections from Mawson?
<carlos> night!!
<BradB> stub dude, we need a browser:widget not-subdirective!
<stub> eh?
<BradB> oh, just random Z3 thoughts if you were looking for something to hack today that we'd make use of.
<stub> I don't understand what you are asking for ;)
<BradB> currently, if you want to change the attributes of a widget, e.g. the size of an input, you have to make that change in every form it applies to
<BradB> using the browser:widget subdirective
<BradB> e.g.
<BradB>         <browser:widget
<BradB>            field="title"
<BradB>            class="zope.app.form.browser.TextWidget"
<BradB>            displayWidth="55" />
<BradB> (that's inside a browser:editform)
<BradB> i want to be able to change widget configuration globally, and if *needed* change it per form, with the subdirective.
<stub> So you want to be able to say <browser:widget for=".whatever.IBug" field="title" class="whatever" displayWidth="55" />
<stub> I believe this can already be done in Python btw - just not in ZCML
<BradB> yes....it can?
<BradB> Philipp didn't mention that, if that's the case. It may be though.
<stub> In the IBug schema definition I think you can pass keyword arguments that get sent through to the widget (dislayWidth="55"), and change the field used to render it. (Or if not, you can alway subclass TextField into BugTitleField which does this)
<BradB> subclassing takes too much effort when you consider we may want to do this dozens and dozens of times for different fields.
<stub> Yup - I'll chase it up and see if it is doable without subclassing.
<stub> (just with keyword arguments)
<BradB> http://paste.husk.org/1963
<BradB> is what philikon started hacking up
<daf> grrr
<daf> https://www.ubuntulinux.org/forgottenpassword
<daf> " A system error occurred."
<BradB> that's already been reported
<daf> sigh
<stub> I thought I'd turned on tracebacks by default?
<BradB> ah, we needed to bug SteveA about that today (which was noted in the bugzilla report...maybe he didn't notice)
<BradB> stub: on prod apps?
<stub> On dogfood for now
<BradB> that's the real app though
<BradB> btw, i'm currently fixing malone bugs 13, 14, 15, 16 and 30
<BradB> if i land my changes though, summary disappears :P
<BradB> which everyone thus far has agreed to be A Good Thing...we just need to convince sabdfl ;)
* stub wipes his eyeballs
<stub> I've got an email ready to send on that
<BradB> heh
<BradB> heh yep. i'd only have added that the description of a bug that the steps to reproduce it are too tightly coupled to make decoupling them into two fields a sane thing.
<BradB> s/that the/and the/
<stub> lifeless: ping
<stub> lifeless: What was that field you were having UTF-8 encoding issues with that was going to be dropped? You didn't know what character set encoding it was in (I think it was a changelog of some kind)
<kiko> I had a problem with ChangeLogs in gina, for the record..
<stub> I think the argument about lazy changelogs is redundant then, because it is pointless storing them in the database at all (unless we heuristically guess the encoding - probably a 98% success rate)
<stub> And gpg keys could also go into the librarian, since there is no meaningful operations we can perform on them inside postgresql
<kiko> true on both counts, though searching through changelogs, well..
<kiko> I solved the ChangeLog import by using a "smart" conversion routing that seemed to do a decent enough guess.
<stub> ok - so we are using heuristics to guess the encoding (which is good)
<kiko> you actually have that code in your tree, look at gina's db.py:ensure_string_format -- caveat hack
<kiko> ah, btw.
<kiko> I have a patch to suggest to you, a successor to the Makefile fix I sent you once (that you disliked).
<stub> kiko: That charset stuff seems broken - at the moment is is doing some redundant operations and may return either a utf-8 encoded string or a Unicode string
<stub> I'll knock up a similar one in lp/encoding.py for everyone
<kiko> stub, what's the difference between them?
<kiko> or were you not referring to gina/database.py?
<stub> A UTF-8 string is just a sequence of bytes which can be written to files, sent over tcp sockets etc. but is useless unless everyone who uses it *knows* it is a utf-8 encoded string (and not a shift-jis encoded string, or iso-8859-1 etc.). A Unicode string is an object that abstracts out the need to know the encoding (it knows it for you, and hides it from you).
<stub> open('foo.txt','w').write(u'A Unicode string') will fail 
<kiko> oh.
<kiko> I see what you mean.
<lifeless> stub: erm, it was title I think.
<kiko> stub, AIUI that code will always return a unicode object, no?
<stub> No - if the first bit raises a Unicode error, the second bit returns a UTF-8 encoded string (s = name.decode("latin-1").encode("utf-8"). The next line doesn't modify s, and the line after returns s (still UTF-8 encoded)
<kiko> but what we receive is also a utf-8-encoded string, stub
<kiko> or else decode/encode would raise an error in the first clause.
<kiko> am I mistaken? I tested this quite a bit and it was the only setup that got output that made sense..
<lifeless> kiko: ASCII strings pun as UTF-8 by definition.
<lifeless> UTF-8 doesn't pun as ascii though.
<kiko> yes
<kiko> so the code there basically tries to decode and reencode as utf-8, and if it fails, it's not utf-8 and I can try decoding as latin-1 
<kiko> but maybe I'm on crack, I'm dead sleepless
<stub> oh - yes. both return utf-8. The redundant code confused me.
<kiko> which code is redundant? 
<kiko> the test decode and return bits?
<stub> name.decode("utf-8").encode("utf-8") should just be name.decode('utf-8'), because we can assume that anything Python encodes as UTF-8 is valid
<kiko> hmmmm. but why would I have done that unless I ran into a problem? :-)
<stub> And the 's.decode('UTF-8') is also unnecessary for the same reason
* kiko can't remember, but it was some sort of sanity checking. 
<kiko> maybe you're right, it's straining my memory at this point. 
<stub> If you happen to have found a sequence of byte such that name.decode('utf-8') does not return a utf-8 encoded string or raise an exception it is a pretty serious bug in Python that will cause data loss
<kiko> upon which encode('utf-8') should always succeed, I see.
<kiko> okay, time to kick this server's disks.
<BradB> ho ho ho
<stub> Urgh - ubuntu has packaged up the Japanese-only Python codecs rather than the cjk codecs (which are going into 2.4) :-( Which we need if we want to process email reliably
<stub> Hopefully elmo won't mind installing stuff from Universe onto production...
<dilys> New bug 2168 for Launchpad/Rosetta: recent changes feature
<dilys> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=2168
<sabdfl> BradB: i've already created a Title and Summary widget
<Kinnison> Morning
<SteveA> hi
<Kinnison> Morning cprov
<cprov> Kinnison: morning 
<Kinnison> Morning ddaa
<ddaa> hello Kinnison
<SteveA> spiv: ping
<salgado> what's the preferred way for defining sqlobject columns in launchpad: _columns = [StringCol('foo')]  or foo = StringCol() ?
<Kinnison> the latter apparently
<kiko> that was in launchpad email, right Kinnison?
<Kinnison> Dunno. sabdfl told me when I was writing some view classes
<salgado> I saw lots of places with _columns. that's why I asked
<kiko> IIRC it was on lp-list
<kiko> which reminds me.
<kiko> elmo?
<Kinnison> salgado: yeah; old code tends to be _columns
<Kinnison> salgado: new code tends to be the foo = StringCol()
<sabdfl> salgado: what Kinnison said
<Kinnison> coo; I got something right
* Kinnison does a dance
* Kinnison continues prodding at this librarian change for kiko
<salgado> Kinnison, sabdfl: ok, thanks. 
* sabdfl ruffles Kinnison's feathers
<Kinnison> sabdfl: meep; I have feathers?
* Kinnison dies of allergic shock
<sabdfl> erm, I think I'm mixing my metaphors
<sabdfl> or drikns
<Kinnison> mixing drinks sounds like more fun
<Kinnison> sabdfl: I think I've come to the conclusion (wrt. lucille domination) to take the less correct and way easier to implement domination model I invented while trying to go to sleep last night
<Kinnison> sabdfl: I'll send a mail to you and elmo when I've finished this librarian stuff for kiko
<kiko> thanks 
<sabdfl> Kinnison: ok, sounds sensible
<cprov> Kinnison: which "librarian stuff for kiko" are you talking about ?
<Kinnison> cprov: FileDownloadClient.getURLForAlias() mostly
<Kinnison> cprov: also an email to the launchpad list detailing roughly how to use the librarian
<Kinnison> cprov: also a couple of bits for making sure the filenames are encoded in utf8 properly
<cprov> Kinnison: ehe,  I know what stuff i just don't understand the "for kiko" . is he implementing something that I don't know in Soyuz ?
<Kinnison> I thought it was kiko who had asked me for it
<Kinnison> I guess it might have been you
* Kinnison was getting ready to go shopping when he was asked
<cprov> Kinnison:  I  did it yesterday :), Maybe be kiko did too ...
<Kinnison> cprov: heh
<Kinnison> Would anyone mind if I updated the librarian files only on mawson in order to test this stuff?
<kiko> not me
<kiko> I filed a bug on kinni yesterday on the Pending Problem.
<Kinnison> I just need to update client.py and web.py :-)
<Kinnison> kiko: aah that's it :-)
<kiko> cprov, phone
<kiko> sabdfl, do you have a plan for the "I am a new soyuz user" usecase?
<kiko> sabdfl, I happen to have no password in the database, and I'd like to use the UI to create my user
<sabdfl> kiko: no idea, what will work best?
<kiko> I believe that is a potential dogfood issue
<sabdfl> yes it is
<kiko> so let's think about it for a minute
<kiko> first, is the soyuz user a launchpad-wide user?
<kiko> if so, are we answering the launchpad-wide user registration problem?
<kiko> I pray yes, it's time we dealt with this
<Kinnison> Who here is a twistd person?
<SteveA> spiv: ping
<SteveA> Kinnison: spiv knows a lot of twisted.
<SteveA> but, perhaps he is having an australia day today
<Kinnison> SteveA: twisted isn't working like it used to
<kiko> SteveA, care to participate in the "New Soyuz/Launchpad User" discussion?
<SteveA> kiko: sure, but when?
<cprov> SteveA: sabdfl: any objections to talk about it now ?
<kiko> now would be nice.
<sabdfl> go ahead
<kiko> so there are the two questions I posed
<kiko> first, is the soyuz user a launchpad-wide user?
<kiko> if so, are we answering the launchpad-wide user registration problem?
<sabdfl> when you add a user to the website, they are added to launchpad
<sabdfl> and that code exists and is in use
<sabdfl> the more interesting dilemma is when a use for which we have an existing account but no password wants to register
<kiko> hmmm
<kiko> and what if I am registered with another email account, too.
<cprov> sabdfl: forgottenpassword can help
<sabdfl> cprov: ok
<sabdfl> kiko: we need a "merge person" function
<kiko> sabdfl, definitely. but let me get this cleared up: a launchpad developer, then, needs to rely on other non-UI ways to create users for his database?
<kiko> IOW, there will be no launchpad-based person creation functionality?
<kiko> (as in living in lib/canonical/launchpad)
<SteveA> kiko: users will be registered, and thus persons created, at various different points in the workflow of the different applications.  What are the current places in launchpad a user might need to register?
<SteveA> in rosetta, a user can sign up in a straightforward way, but we're interested in a few rosetta-specific things about them too.
<kiko> hmmm
<kiko> shouldn't the user be a "launchpad user".
<sabdfl> kiko: I guess we need (a) a standard way to redirect people at the "register" pages, and (b) a standard way to add a user from within the code
<kiko> ah, now we're talking!
<SteveA> where will "register" pages live?  what domain name / path?
<kiko> foaf/+register ?
<sabdfl> makes sense
<SteveA> ok.  for deploying the whole thing ?
<kiko> now does this contain all the registration information for a rosetta user? for a soyuz user?
<kiko> or do they have "I am a launchpad user, now I want to use rosetta" setup step?
<SteveA> perhaps foaf/+register?application=rosetta
<SteveA> can add in some rosetta-specific fields
<kiko> we're still stuck when that user wants to log into soyuz, no?
<SteveA> why?
<kiko> well
<kiko> how do you see the user being presented with register?application=soyuz?
<kiko> I mean, what would he do to be taken to that page.
<SteveA> the "login" page will have a link to "register"
<kiko> where does the login page live? :)
<SteveA> let's assume we're not doing a centralized single-sign-on just now
<SteveA> so, I reckon we should have a /+login and a /+register at any particular "/" that is the root of a site we're virtual hosting at
<kiko> ah.
<kiko> I see.
<SteveA> but, the code lives in one place
<SteveA> the register code lives in foaf
<kiko> one thing that makes me curious about this
<kiko> what happens to the navigation bar at the top of the screen when we virtualhost?
<SteveA> kiko: I'm making this up as I go along
<kiko> I like your ideas, I'm storming too
<SteveA> that's a very good question, and one that I'll be talking with Brad about a bit later today
<SteveA> feel free to join in
<kiko> do all virtualhosts have all tabs available? some? none?
<kiko> I will definitely join 
<SteveA> I must think of going to find lunch soon
<kiko> lithuanian people eat early.
<SteveA> it is 3pm here
<kiko> taken out of context, that is <wink>
<SteveA> working day for one of the programmers here is 12.30pm -> midnight
<SteveA> kiko: does that sort things out enough for now for you?
<SteveA> is there anything else we should discuss now, before the meeting later today?
<kiko> it's getting us somewhere, more discussion is still needed but we'll start considering foaf
<kiko> salgado could be named foaf fiend
<kiko> let's ponder that
<kiko> (cprov suggested it yesterday)
<SteveA> spiv is in charge of doap and foaf
<kiko> yes, but he's by himself
<kiko> and salgado has geographical advantages to him (wrt us at least! :)
<SteveA> ok
<SteveA> but, if you want to get started on writing the +register page...
<SteveA> go ahead
<kiko> right
<kiko> this needs some daf-brad-consensus as they would be users as well
<SteveA> you can get a basic launchpad registration going
<kiko> aham
<SteveA> then we can talk to daf about removing the rosetta one
<SteveA> and merging what is different into the central one
<SteveA> same for malone
<cprov> SteveA: sure, I'll do the same with soyuz/people/+add
<SteveA> we might not even need a ?application=rosetta thing on the end of +register
<SteveA> once we've cracked the virtual hosting thing, perhaps it will be able to pick up that it is a rosetta context anyway
<SteveA> cprov: great
<cprov> SteveA: I suggest talk about it tomorrow in the Meeting, everybody interesting in
<SteveA> ok
* spiv wakes up
<spiv> SteveA: pong
<Kinnison> spiv: twisted is being a shit wrt. the librarian on mawson
* Kinnison -> town, I'll be back in 30
<spiv> Kinnison: Hmm.  Can I have a slightly more useful bug report? :)
<Kinnison> spiv: the root.putChild calls in server.tac appear to have no useful effect because using them results in 4xx responses
<Kinnison> I'll be more useful when I'm back
<spiv> Ok, thanks :)
<Kinnison> spiv: back
<Kinnison> spiv: I'm just gathering info
<Kinnison> GET /byalias?alias=1 HTTP/1.0
<Kinnison> 400 Unknown command: GET /byalias?alias=1 HTTP/1.0
<Kinnison> Is a fairly good example
<Kinnison> root.putChild('byalias', fatweb.AliasSearchResource(storage))
<Kinnison> is in server.tac
<Kinnison> spiv: please ignore me for at least the next 10 minutes while I repeatedly hammer my head against the wall
<spiv> Sure...
<Kinnison> For my next trick; I make sure that we connect 1. to the right port onthe librarian, and 2. to the right f*cking database
<Kinnison> Okay; seems to be fine now
* Kinnison kicks lib/canonical/lp/__init__.py
<Kinnison> >>> from canonical.librarian.client import FileDownloadClient
<Kinnison> >>> fdc = FileDownloadClient('localhost', 8000)
<Kinnison> >>> fdc.getURLForAlias(1)
<Kinnison> 'http://localhost:8000/1/1/3dchess_0.8.1-11.dsc'
* BradB reads (some) scrollback
<Kinnison> cprov: is that simple enough for you? :-)
<cprov> Kinnison: fantastic
<Kinnison> cprov: I'll just test the better urls; one sec
<Kinnison> >>> fdc = FileDownloadClient('launchpad.ubuntu.com', 8000)
<Kinnison> >>> fdc.getURLForAlias(1)
<Kinnison> 'http://launchpad.ubuntu.com:8000/1/1/3dchess_0.8.1-11.dsc'
<Kinnison> yep
<Kinnison> that works too
* Kinnison tests downloading that file from outside the network
<Kinnison> Okay; we need elmo to open port 8000 in the firewall I think
<cprov> Kinnison: how to grab the servername from Zope env ? localhost/launchpad.ubuntu.com/gwyddion.gwyddion.com/etc ?
<kiko-fud> cprov, I see, this bookkeeper thing lives on another port?
<Kinnison> cprov: I'm not a zopeist
<Kinnison> cprov: you'll have to ask someone who understands how zope is configured
<cprov> kiko-fud: sorry ? bookkeeper ?
<cprov> Kinnison: ok
<kiko-fud> cprov, libby :)
<SteveA> cprov: from the request ?
<cprov> SteveA: sure !
<Kinnison> Right; I'm happy with this
<BradB> cprov: request.getApplicationURL() should do
<BradB> SteveA, kiko-fud: interested in discussing absolute URL's to placeless objects now then?
<kiko-fud> I need to have lunch, goo
<SteveA> I'm having lunch now
<BradB> ok
<SteveA> bit later would suit better
<SteveA> want to fix a time?
<kiko-fud> 1h
<kiko-fud> from now
<SteveA> 1h10 ?
<SteveA> 15:30 UTC I think that is
<kiko-fud> sure
<BradB> sure
<dilys> Bug 2160 resolved: Nuclear explosion when no string is input in package search
<dilys> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=2160
<dilys> Bug 2161 resolved: Visiting a person without being logged in blows up
<dilys> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=2161
* debonzi -> lunch
* Kinnison -> lunch too; cunning plan
<BradB> kiko-fud: use malone for launchpad bugs dude!
<SteveA> can we turn off "new bugs for launchpad" in bugzilla?
<spiv> BradB: Surely he's still allowed to resolve bugs? :)
<spiv> Kinnison: Hmm, around?
<Kinnison> spiv: yes
* Kinnison has hands full of lunch though; so won't be quick
<spiv> Kinnison: Sure.
<BradB> spiv: sure, resolve existing bugs in bugzilla, but new ones (like 2167) need to be reported in malone
<BradB> though that one was actually meant to be an email to lp@, by the looks of it :P
<spiv> BradB: Oh, I thought you were saying that in response to the most recent dilys output :)
<spiv> Kinnison: There's an issue with how the librarian currently does db access.
<Kinnison> spiv: go on...
<spiv> Kinnison: Twisted's networking layer is single-threaded; so processing in it shouldn't block.  It looks like we're currently doing DB access in it though.
<spiv> In some respects it's a minor problem, because our DB is fast ;)
<Kinnison> hmm
<spiv> But ideally the DB access would be done in threads.
<Kinnison> I must admit I thought the librarian was threaded already :-)
<Kinnison> I assume uploads and downloads are done multiplexed then
<Kinnison> we're not in single-client-at-a-time territory are we?
<spiv> Yeah, I just suddenly realised it glancing at the code, it was a flaw in my initial code.
<spiv> Oh, no, the network IO is all nicely multiplexed.
<Kinnison> cool
<spiv> Except during a DB call :)
<BradB> hm, who admins the canonical bugzilla then?
<Kinnison> elmo: Any chance you can get the archive updating on mawson?
<spiv> Twisted has infrastructure to make this easy when using raw DB-API stuff.
<spiv> Unfortunately sqlobject doesn't really fit into model.
<BradB> spiv: heh heh
<BradB> non-blocking + ORM = splat
<spiv> I'm not sure what the priority of fixing this should be; like I say, DB access is pretty fast for librarian, I think most things it does are small queries on indexes.
<spiv> So in practice we won't notice this until we start hammering the librarian.
<spiv> I know how to fix it, but it requires a bit of restructuring, unsurprisingly :)
<spiv> Kinnison: How good is your Twisted? :)
<Kinnison> Erm, well, let's just say I know nothing and leave it at that eh?
<spiv> Ok, sure.
<spiv> I think it can wait a bit, or at least, I don't have time for it immediately ;)
<Kinnison> Yeah
<Kinnison> I certainly think it can wait
<spiv> Perhaps we can pair on it in Mataro.
<SteveA> file a bug on it
<SteveA> in malone
<Kinnison> spiv: Possibly
<BradB> kiko-fud, SteveA: if you can wait a couple more mins, i just want to upgrade something in the plone site
<SteveA> k
<dilys> Bug 2007 resolved: Linkify bits in personal information.
<dilys> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=2007
<kiko-fud> back
<BradB> ok, ready to rock now
<BradB> plone site's fixed
<kiko> so
<SteveA> BradB: what was up with it?
<kiko> how are we going to handle logging in?
<BradB> SteveA: Plone 2.0.4's portal_factory breaks PloneHelpCenter. Had to upgrade from SVN, where geoffd's made a fix.
<SteveA> ok
<SteveA> I propose we move to cookie based login forms asap.
<kiko> SteveA, sidenode, comment requested for https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=2161#c1
<kiko> agreed
<SteveA> kiko: ommented
<SteveA> kiko: commented
<kiko> thanks.
<BradB> ok, so here was the problem i wanted to discuss then: getting absolute URL's to placeless objects.
<SteveA> ok, so how about I work on the cookie auth thing tomorrow?  I really don't think there is much left to do on it.  If I leave basic auth availalble then page tests will still work.
<SteveA> BradB: so, we should provide our own @@absolute_url and IAbsoluteURL views/adapters
<SteveA> that would probably get us most of the way there, if not all the way there.
<BradB> sure
<SteveA> to do this, we'd need to start keeping a traversal context object around somewhere.
<SteveA> we need this anyway, to do the context-sensitive stuff more sanely
<BradB> my main problem is how to make this work while VH'ing.
<SteveA> does that sound like it would solve the issues you've got?
<SteveA> the absolute url stuff knows how to do virtual hosting
<SteveA> so, I think that will be okay
<BradB> SteveA: yeah, but a bug doesn't "live" anywhere though.
<SteveA> are there specific virtual hosting issues you can describe?
<BradB> yes
<SteveA> cool
<BradB> 1. bugs.foo.com => launchpad/malone
<BradB> 2. bugs.foo.com => launchpad/malone/bugs
<SteveA> let's call it bugs.bar.com
<SteveA> because otherwise my head will explode from confusion
<BradB> how do you know that the abs url for the first is bugs.bar.com/bugs/$bug.id, but for the second it's bugs.bar.com/$bug.id?
<SteveA> (it's a bugbar.  Sometimes you eat the bar; sometimes the bar eats you)
<BradB> heh
<SteveA> when you say "how do you know", which piece of software is "you" in this example?
<BradB> the IAbsoluteURL adapter
<BradB> (from an IWhatever)
<SteveA> if "you" has the request, then that's okay; the absolute url machinery takes care of that.
<SteveA> but, if "you" is an event handler that wants to send an email containing a URL, it gets a bit trickier
<SteveA> because it doesn't easily have access to the request (although, it can get it if necessary).  It is a cleaner design if it doesn't need to get the request)
<SteveA> perhaps we need a table; a mapping of virtual host domain name to what emails should be sent out containing?
<SteveA> what are some typical use-cases for sending out emails containing urls?
<SteveA> notification of something to do with a particular bug, I suppose
<BradB> sorry, landlord just dropped in to install my shower. /me catches up.
<BradB> SteveA: yes, all bug notifications
<BradB> like bugzilla
<SteveA> so, let's say we've got this "url traversal context" object that represents where you are
<SteveA> in terms of virtual hosting, knowing how to make absolute urls for you, what application, project, product, etc. you're in
<kiko> sounds interesting.
<SteveA> the thing that emails can get hold of this "UTC" object easily (argh, bad name, worse acronym) 
<SteveA> just by importing it and using it
<SteveA> and it can say emailtext % {'bugurl': UTC.urlFor(mybug)}
<SteveA> sabdfl came up with a good name for this UTC object.  I can't remember it though.  need to look it up in my notes.
<BradB> wouldn't we want that to be a utility?
<SteveA> it could be a utility.  might make unit tests easier if it were.
<SteveA> but it need not be a utility in general.
<SteveA> it would be a "thread local"
<SteveA> or perhaps it would belong to the request, and be got via the interaction.  but, those are implementation details
<SteveA> what I want to find out now is if this science-fictional account sounds like it would solve your problems
<SteveA> and make things straightforward enough
<SteveA> as, it doesn't sound too hard to implement
<BradB> what if you're not traversing? what if soyuz wants a link to a bug, for example?
<BradB> and there's a soyuz.bar.com and malone.bar.com?
<BradB> the point of this mechanism is that it needs to be generic, because there are lots of use cases for "i have an object, give me a url to it" in launchpad.
<SteveA> so, let's talk about this in some detail
<SteveA> to make sure I understand
<SteveA> what object have we url-traversed to?
<SteveA> a package in soyuz.bar.com ?
<BradB> sure
<SteveA> and, from calling a method on the package, we find we have a bug related to that package
<BradB> yes
<SteveA> so, we want to provide the url to the bug, say on the web page, for a portlet or something
<BradB> yes
<SteveA> and, because the "url topology" of bar.com is that we have soyuz.bar.com for the soyuzstuff and malone.bar.com for the bugstuff
<SteveA> the link needs to be going to malone.bar.com
<BradB> yes
<SteveA> because...
<SteveA> 1. it is a bug
<SteveA> 2. the rule for bar.com says "bugs appear in malone.bar.com"
<BradB> yep
<SteveA> and, the "UTC" component needs to know that rule
<SteveA> how does this sound so far?
<kiko> hmmmm
<BradB> good, as long as you don't mean the user has to do some kind of configuration to tell the UTC component about that rule
<SteveA> which user?
<kiko> how would this be configured by the installer?
<SteveA> which user do you mean?
<BradB> the site admin
<kiko> same question
<BradB> beyond configuring apache, this should Just Work
<SteveA> to an extent, yes
<kiko> how?
<sabdfl> i think my term was something like "launchpad context"
<dilys> Bug 2163 resolved: Don't show "last packages" unless we have some
<dilys> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=2163
<SteveA> this is a common enough pattern: for bar.com, bugs are at malone.$DOMAIN, packages are at soyuz.$DOMAIN
<sabdfl> i was imagining it would be a property of the request object
<SteveA> sabdfl: you avoided the term "context"
<kiko> but wait; the site admin is who, the admin for the site that hosts *all* launchpad sites?
<sabdfl> hmm... true
<SteveA> sabdfl: it would basically be part of the request, but we want to make it accessible to parts of the application that don't have the request.  that's just an implemenation detail really though.
<SteveA> sabdfl: it is reasonable to consider it "part of the request"
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> location - overloaded
<sabdfl> context - overloaded
<sabdfl> setting? - overloaded
<SteveA> kiko: in production, our model is there is just one "launchpad" application, that can handle any kind of request for any of rosetta/malone/soyuz on any domain
<SteveA> we have as many instances of "launchpad" as we want, on different app servers
<SteveA> (or the same app server if it is multi-processor)
<kiko> right. a launchpad "multi-server".
<BradB> hm, maybe some config is inevitable, no matter what
<SteveA> yes, we'll need some.  but there are standard patterns for a lot of the projected use.
<BradB> because bugs.bar.com and bugs.bar.org, et.c
<BradB> s/et.c/etc./
<SteveA> yeah
<SteveA> I think the config will *eventually* live in the database, when we allow people to create soyuz.myproject.org themselves.
<SteveA> there will need to be some apache-vh-config-include magic there, no doubt
<kiko> exactly, some config is necessary, AND, for the case of our banquet-pad, I forsee some intricate config separating the bits and pieces.
<BradB> SteveA: so, ultimately, to cover all the cases discussed thus far, and basically any other, i'd be able to ask any content object for an absolute url to itself on the web.
<BradB> SteveA: is that the problem you're seeing this solving?
<SteveA> right
<SteveA> but one content object may have many absolute urls
<kiko> indeed
<BradB> yeah
<SteveA> so, the one to choose will depend on the current request
<SteveA> but, it may well be a different (but related) domain from the current request
<SteveA> related by config
<SteveA> of which there are standard patterns
<SteveA> we done?
<BradB> so, for soyuz.bar.com, bug url's should point to soyuz.bar.com, but the respective .org's should point to each other as well.
<SteveA> if that's the rule, then yes.
<BradB> er, i meant bug url's should point to malone.bar.com, but yeah
<SteveA> that's probably the usual case
<BradB> SteveA: is this something you're planning on implementing then?
<SteveA> I am now ;-)
<BradB> heh
<BradB> SteveA: so perhaps a new ZCML directive comes out of this?
<BradB> browser:absoluteurl or something
<SteveA> I'll take this on, write up what we've discussed, and malonize it.
<kiko> can we fit in some talk on the UI for a launchpad "instance"?
<SteveA> maybe, but probably not zcml.
<kiko> I'm curious about the tabs and where we would stick a cross-app log in/register thang.
<kiko> and if we could trust the header would always be there
<SteveA> kiko: sure.  you mean, making soyuz.ubuntu.com look like ubuntulinux.org etc. ?
<kiko> well, I mean, what sort of flexibility should it have inbuilt.
<kiko> can we trust the beloved tabs and logo will always be there?
<SteveA> my initial sense is to make the login/register thing somewhat "anonymous", with no tabs, but an option to go "back where you came from"
<SteveA> although it would need a logo
<kiko> a launchpad logo
<kiko> or else the launchpad instance logo
<kiko> (i.e. skole for skole lunchpie)
<kiko> any other random storms of thought flowing through?
<SteveA> I'm not sure what would work best.  But, the outcome is, the skin to use for the login stuff depends what you're intending to log in to
<SteveA> or register for
<kiko> do we even agree that we will log into and register into separate things?
<SteveA> I think we should just get login and register working centrally first, and worry about skinning it once we have the rest of this context ob done
<SteveA> kiko: until / unless we do single-sign-on, surely we have to ?
<kiko> well
<kiko> single-sign-on is luckily orthogonal to registration
<kiko> it's one thing to create an account and another to use it
<SteveA> brb (2 mins)
<kiko> I am happy with just working on centralizing registration from malone/soyuz/rosetta into foaf/register for now
<kiko> but we should be thinking about these things..
<SteveA> can you explain a bit more about what you're thinking?
<kiko> ah
<kiko> sorry, was in another channel
<kiko> well
<kiko> we complained about this in the soyuz sprint: three separate new user forms, and no consensus on how to join them
<dilys> Bug 2162 resolved: Add legend to translation portlet
<dilys> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=2162
<kiko> we need to consider if we are going to use separate registration pages or treat the application as "launchpad" and have a central one.
<kiko> there are advantages to both alternatives of course
<kiko> if separate, we have more freedom to ask context-specific questions
<kiko> if together, we avoid the need to make the user reintroduce himself for every new launchpad service he visits
<kiko> note that the barrier between soyuz and rosetta and malone is only an href away
<SteveA> ok, so if we have separate ones, there's a problem when someone is signed up with soyuz and then wants to use rosetta...
<kiko> which makes having the user relogin or update his data when visiting rosetta, well, you get the picture. 
<SteveA> ask one more question, or ask them all again (assuming rosetta has one extra question)
<kiko> right
<SteveA> do soyuz and malone have differing registration requirements?
<kiko> I personally would hate anything that wasn't launchpad-centric just because it burdens the user and lowers our market perception.
<kiko> well, as for login/username/password, no.
<SteveA> I mean, the minimum required from a user so that they can use the system
<kiko> question is if we're going to require anything else for any of the apps. and I say no, I don't think we should
<kiko> right
<SteveA> daf, carlos: ping
<carlos> SteveA: pong
<kiko> I think the minimum should be the minimum everywhere -- make lp really easy to join and use
<SteveA> does the rosetta sign-up page need to ask more than the minimal information that would be common to all launchpad apps?
<carlos> SteveA: if could be really good if they have a chance to select their know languages
<carlos> but it's not mandatory
<carlos> perhaps only the "main language" daf talked about some days ago at launchpad mailing list
<SteveA> I suppose rosetta could ask that of any person who is logged in, but hasn't told their known languages and main language
<SteveA> that would be more general
<SteveA> and would work for the case when I'm registered for malone already and now want to use rosetta
<SteveA> where is daf anyway?
<carlos> SteveA: If we don't have that information I think we get it from the browser, so we don't need to ask it as a mandatory option
<carlos> SteveA: no idea
<SteveA> ok, but the principle is that a user who is already signed up for launchpad can use rosetta
<SteveA> and can answer other questions later on
<carlos> SteveA: but the main language is interesting to select the UI language (also not mandatory, we could get it from the browser)
<carlos> SteveA: yeah, it works with the current schema
<SteveA> if that's workable for rosetta, then once we have a new one single registration screen, (belonging to foaf), we should remove the specific rosetta one
<carlos> we look at the database info, if it does not exists, we get the info from the browser
<SteveA> and even now, consider removing the request for special information in the rosetta one
<SteveA> carlos: can this be done for rosetta?  what do you think of such a change?
<carlos> SteveA: it's fine for me, just tell me when it's ready and I will remove all but the language chooser
<carlos> we don't have a registration screen but a preferences editor
<carlos> we cannot create new accounts, only modify the data
<carlos> to create accounts we use a script
<SteveA> ok, that's fine then.
<SteveA> kiko: are you happy with all this?
<carlos> SteveA: how will it work with websites like rosetta.gnome.org?
<carlos> it's only one of launchpad's applications
<SteveA> the page will be available from any some.domain.org/+register page
<carlos> and the preferences editor? (to change password and info)
<carlos> as +useredit? or something like that?
<SteveA> I guess so
<carlos> ok
<kiko> well
* kiko reads up
<kiko> ah, then that's fine.
<kiko> I think preferred language can be part of the initial registration
<kiko> the reason is basically i18n of the interface
<kiko> so this is good for rosetta. what about malone, BradB?
<kiko> do you have user registration, or Not Yet?
<carlos> kiko: the db schema does not have (yet) a way to store it
<kiko> carlos, bug filed?
<carlos> when daf appears I will ask about it so we could get a conclusion of the initial thread
<kiko> (need to be afk 2m)
<carlos> kiko: not yet decided how will it be stored
<BradB> kiko: no user reg in malone that i'm aware of
<carlos> so we only have a thread at launchpad
<BradB> report dudes, use malone for all these bug reports.
<BradB> remember even
<carlos> BradB: https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/31
<carlos> does it means we will have all our bugs/comments from bugzilla in malone?
<BradB> yeah, we have to
<BradB> at the least, the ones that haven't yet been fixed.
<carlos> hmm, I just noticied that we don't support attachments...
<carlos> or I don't see them
<kiko> no user reg, hum hum.
<kiko> BradB, useful tho, no?
<BradB> yeah, probably :P
<sabdfl> hi guys, do the tests use a different db?
<sabdfl> the user reg stuff is written
<sabdfl> SteveA: what's the url for a user registration that would work on the dogfood server?
<carlos> <SteveA> the page will be available from any some.domain.org/+register page
<carlos> sabdfl: is that what you need?
<sabdfl> carlos: afaik there is already such a page, i was wondering whether it's accessible on the dogfood server
<carlos> sabdfl: I thought someone was working on it, didn't know it already exists, in fact... I think Steve said something here that makes me think it was not yet wrote
<SteveA> I don't believe there is a user registration page at all yet
<carlos> that was about 2 hours ago
<sabdfl> hmm... so does the website only use the xmlrpc interface?
<SteveA> at one stage, there was going to be one for the rosetta alpha, but that was canned in favour of a script run by daf
<sabdfl> ok
<SteveA> the plone website uses the xmlrpc server to talk to the production database and create users
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> have we assigned the work to create a launchpad registration page?
<sabdfl> also, cookie based auth for launchpad?
<SteveA> I'll be doing cookie-based auth, starting tomorrow.  someone in brazil is doing a registration page.
<SteveA> I expect I'll be finishing tomorrow too
<kiko> that would be salgado, and he should do this in short notice, he's been working for a week already and landing patches
<lulu> night all :o)
<sabdfl> night lu
<SteveA> kiko, spiv and I were talking about salgado getting to know foaf better, and chatting to spiv regularly this week to do so
<sabdfl> ok
<SteveA> this will give us someone to do foaf work while spiv is away.
<sabdfl> i'm keen to get cracking on the karma, and salgado could cut his teeth on that
<kiko> he has his last week of classes next week, and tomorrow's a full day, but tonight onwards he'll be on this.
<kiko> ah, that would be nice
<sabdfl> i'm thinking we need a "karmapoints" table
<SteveA> great.  I've asked spiv to co-ordinate touching base at least daily with salgado about foaf
<sabdfl> with fields like:
<sabdfl>  - person
<sabdfl>  - datecreated
<sabdfl>  - discipline
<sabdfl>  - points
<sabdfl>  - comment
<sabdfl> so, for example, when someone edits the wiki, we put an entry in there with "wiki" as the discipline
<sabdfl> maybe we track the disciplines in a separate table
<sabdfl> or just use the schema / label
<sabdfl> so this way, we can keep a sense of what people have done in different areas
<sabdfl> website
<sabdfl> wiki
<sabdfl> package uploads
<sabdfl> bugs closed
<sabdfl> bug comments, assignments, watches created
<sabdfl> translations
<kiko> sort of a global activity log, interesting.
<kiko> and comment would be hardcoded according to the action?
<sabdfl> ultimately, arch commits too
* SteveA needs to go.  Can someone mail a "karma" outline to the mailing list once you've all chatted it out ?
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> willdo
<SteveA> cheers.  good night.
<sabdfl> SteveA: will you have time for a call?
<SteveA> yeah, a bit later?
<sabdfl> ok, will be here, ping me
<SteveA> want to get some food in first
<SteveA> ok
<sabdfl> BradB|lunch: holler when you're back
!Geert:*! I'm writing a new FOSS tool for ISPs and need all the MIB output I can get from managed switches and routers (i.e. 'smnpwalk comm@device . >> brand_version.mib')
!Geert:*! You can dcc, query, or mail me on geert@irssi.org
<daf> carlos: pong
<carlos> daf: hi
<SteveA> daf: can you turn up a bit earlier in the day please?  It makes it really difficult for me to keep in touch otherwise.
<kiko> daf!
<daf> SteveA: apologies
<daf> SteveA: I was working late last night
<carlos> daf: Should we get a conclusion about the prefered language in launchpad? 
<daf> yes, we should
<carlos> daf: more discussion or is the final decision clear?
<daf> well, there were no objections to my last post, but there was no support for it either :)
<daf> perhaps I should read up on the syntax of ALTER
<carlos> daf: that's the easier part
<carlos> let me read your reply
<carlos> daf: answered + sql patch
<daf> thanks
<carlos> daf: other thing we have pending is the mail from Jordi
<carlos> if you give me the OK, I could prepare a patch for that feature (well, add it to my TODO list)
<daf> I need to reply to that
<carlos> daf: before I forget to tell you it, I will be offline on Thursday and Friday (perhaps I will be able to do some work offline and If I'm lucky enough get some network connection)
<daf> carlos: ok
<carlos> Jane know that already, I'm going to a GNOME event in Madrid to give a speech about Ubuntu and also another one about translations
<carlos> daf: do we have already anything on what I could base my "translations" speech to introduce Rosetta?
<daf> I don't think so, no
<carlos> hmm anything I should not talk about (not sure what should be still "top secret" or not)
<carlos> sabdfl: ?
<BradB> sabdfl: back
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: fixes (and unfixes) for various bugs reported from dogfooding (patch-749)
<BradB> daf: when will dilys tell who submitted the pqm merge request that got merged?
<daf> does PQM provide that information now?
<carlos> BradB: about the functional tests, I got it running with Rosetta but the launchpad_ftest database should be created by hand first (createdb -E UNICODE --template=launchpad_ftest_template launchpad_ftest), is that normal ?
<BradB> daf: frighteningly enough, perhaps not. hopefully it would be easy to add an X-merge-requester header or something
<BradB> carlos: no. i fixed it so that the db gets reset properly every time.
<sabdfl> BradB: here's a challenge for you
<kiko> BradB, what did you think of my patch?
<sabdfl> make a small change to templates/main-template.pt
<sabdfl> and then run your page tests
<BradB> sabdfl: already did that
<BradB> perl -e -ep "s/old/new/" :)
<BradB> perl -i -ep, that is
<sabdfl> BradB: and you want a web designer to do that?
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Some Bugzilla Bug fixes (patch-750)
<BradB> sabdfl: no, we may need to elide as necessary, but i ended up getting too lazy to fix regression bugs, so i made them virtually impossible to happen. some more eliding could be done, but i'm really wary of bringing them back to anywhere near what they were before i built the forcefield (TM)
<BradB> sabdfl: if our design is well done, the designer does 90% CSS changes, maybe even higher than that.
<sabdfl> BradB: no ways dude
<BradB> kiko: which patch?
<sabdfl> i've just spent the afternoon eliding your force field
<sabdfl> i've tried to capture the essence of each test
<sabdfl> for example, if you are adding some data, i test that the same data shows up in the page
<kiko> BradB, Makefile change.
<sabdfl> but none of the decoration
<sabdfl> test that separately
<sabdfl> make your goal that a change should break at most one test
<sabdfl> having a million page tests with the same decoration is just a recipe for irritation
<BradB> kiko: that's a lot different than the db change i was talking about (which was a mod to PgTest itself), but yeah, it seems good, but i didn't test it, because i don't have plpython running on this machine. :)
<kiko> right :)
<BradB> sabdfl: sure, i agree.
<BradB> sabdfl: as long as there are none that are basically just status code checkers :)
<sabdfl> bradb: checking for status code and heading is acceptable
<sabdfl> it says "we get a page with that heading"
<sabdfl> <h1>...</h1> is too extreme, agreed
<sabdfl> but ...<h1>Add A New Widget</h1>... is fine
<sabdfl> daf: please make sure that rosetta tests are well elided
<sabdfl> This tests searching for projects in Rosetta.
<sabdfl>   >>> print http(r"""
<sabdfl>   ... GET /rosetta/search-results?q=gnome HTTP/1.1
<sabdfl>   ... Referer: http://localhost:9000/rosetta
<sabdfl>   ... """)
<sabdfl>   HTTP/1.1 200 Ok
<sabdfl>   Content-Length: 7564
<sabdfl>   Content-Type: text/html;charset=utf-8
<sabdfl>   <BLANKLINE>
<sabdfl>   <BLANKLINE>
<sabdfl> that sort of thing will break for sure
<BradB> yep
<BradB> only keep status code header
<daf> sabdfl: will do
<daf> sabdfl: can you file a bug so I don't forget?
<BradB> there already is one
<sabdfl> i've fixed that one
<BradB> that was for daf. https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/26
<BradB> but that's about broken ftests, more than complete func suites, i guess.
<sabdfl> yes
<BradB> in any case, i'm happy with any page test suite that allows us to say "cool, make check passed, i didn't break anything"
<daf> BradB: a page test that says "..." would do that :)
<BradB> daf: ahem, "didn't break anything" :)
* debonzi -> dinner
<sabdfl> in general: add a feature, add a test
<sabdfl> so if you add something to an existing page, add a test that checks for that specific content AND NOTHING ELSE
<sabdfl> then if someone breaks that feature, THAT test breaks
<daf> BradB: oh, you mean it should be accurate too!
<sabdfl> is there a way to run just the page tests?
<sabdfl> it takes a few minutes to get through make check
<sabdfl> too long
<BradB> sabdfl: to really achieve that to the level of assurance the 8 tests i created have, would take about 30 tests, at least.
<BradB> e.g. to test the sort orders and values of each of the widgets on each of the pages, to test the correctness of data output in tables, to test comment attribution, all the little things like that, that Just Work (i.e. are Just Tested) with the 8, true, functional tests i created.
<sabdfl> point is to add the test when you add the feature
<sabdfl> you only need to test a widget once, no matter how many pages use it
<daf> sabdfl: "python test_on_merge.py canonical.ftests"?
<daf> something like that
<sabdfl> thanks, will try that
<BradB> sabdfl: hm? vocabularies could be used correctly for one schema, and incorrectly for another.
<BradB> the eight tests i had just handled all those minute details
<sabdfl> BradB: ok, if there's something special about the way you use it, that's a test
<daf> BradB: I think there might be a bug open on PQM for mentioning the merge requester
<sabdfl> i don't really want to argue about this, it's clear in my mind how i want it
<sabdfl> try to get one test to show one thing
<sabdfl> you can easily load a page, copy that test 10 times, and elide differently
<sabdfl> and that kind of testing coverage is *much* more useful
<sabdfl> it tells you what actually broke, instead of just SCREAMING AT YOU THAT THERE IS BREAKAGE
<sabdfl> SteveA: around for that call?
<sabdfl> bradb:
<sabdfl> M   lib/canonical/launchpad/database/bugmessage.py
<sabdfl> M   lib/canonical/launchpad/database/pofile.py
<sabdfl> M   lib/canonical/launchpad/interfaces/bugmessage.py
<sabdfl> M   lib/canonical/launchpad/mailnotification.py
<sabdfl> C   lib/canonical/launchpad/pagetests/malone/10-add-subscription.txt
<sabdfl> C   lib/canonical/launchpad/pagetests/malone/20-add-edit-product-infestation.txt
<sabdfl> C   lib/canonical/launchpad/pagetests/malone/30-add-edit-package-infestation.txt
<sabdfl> C   lib/canonical/launchpad/pagetests/malone/40-add-edit-package-assignment.txt
<sabdfl> C   lib/canonical/launchpad/pagetests/malone/50-add-edit-product-assignment.txt
<sabdfl> C   lib/canonical/launchpad/pagetests/malone/60-add-external-ref.txt
<sabdfl> C   lib/canonical/launchpad/pagetests/malone/70-add-edit-watch.txt
<sabdfl> C   lib/canonical/launchpad/pagetests/malone/80-add-comment.txt
<sabdfl> M   lib/canonical/launchpad/templates/binarypackage-search.pt
<sabdfl> M   lib/canonical/launchpad/templates/bug-index.pt
<sabdfl> M   lib/canonical/launchpad/templates/portlet-translations-sourcepackage.pt
<sabdfl> M   lib/canonical/launchpad/templates/sourcepackage-search.pt
<sabdfl> M   lib/canonical/launchpad/templates/soyuz-sourcepackage-index.pt
<sabdfl> M   lib/canonical/launchpad/zcml/bug.zcml
<sabdfl> M   lib/canonical/librarian/libraryprotocol.py
<sabdfl> M   lib/canonical/librarian/web.py
<sabdfl> M   lib/canonical/soyuz/sql.py
<sabdfl> that's another reason :-)
<kiko> heh
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: bug kill and improves on permission (patch-751)
<Kinnison> yay conflicts
<BradB> sabdfl: that's only because you went in and chopped out the whole file though. :)
<sabdfl> BradB: erm.... every single one of those conflicts is because of a single change on your side
<sabdfl> adding the person name instead of (none) in the comment
<sabdfl> seems to me we are better off if, when we add a new feature, we add a test which tests for that and *only* that
<BradB> in any case, i'm not arguing, i'm following your lead. if the new way achieves the same level of stability that malone has had over the past week, i'll be happy.
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> again, im running into this because I'm making changes that are orthogonal to yours 
<sabdfl> and you'll appreciate it when you do the same to my code
* daf back in 15
<sabdfl> i don't have time to spend hours fixing tens of tests so i can commit a one-line fix
* carlos goes to have lunch
<carlos> ejem... dinner :-P
<SteveA> sabdfl: hi
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: new bounty system, and de-shotgunning tests (patch-752)
<BradB> sabdfl: would you agree with the policy that if i can checkin a change that breaks somebody else's app, it's their responsibility to have allowed me to break it by having inadequate test coverage? i think that's the kind of policy that would, ahem, strongly encourage people to build strong functional test suites. :)
* BradB asks this on the verge of chopping out some bug factories that appear to be dead chickens
<SteveA> BradB: how do you know you've broken it if there are no tests?
<SteveA> or rather, insufficient tests
<SteveA> I'm totally serious.  In your example, I do not see how you can tell you've broken something.
<BradB> SteveA: by looking at it :)
<BradB> i guess you were defending the person doing the checkin though, right? :)
<SteveA> in general I'd say you're morally free to check in the change.  But, you should immediately notify the person responsible for that code.  You should consider fixing it anyway, if possible.
<SteveA> and if it isn't too much hassle for you
<BradB> but in many cases you won't realize that you've broken something
<SteveA> and show sensitivity towards breakages that might reach the dogfood server
<BradB> sure
<SteveA> sure
<SteveA> and I completely agree about getting decent test coverage
<BradB> it saved me a ton of agony last week
<SteveA> cool
<SteveA> I must go sleep.  I've been getting into the morning vibe :-)
<BradB> SteveA, sabdfl: i hope there can be some serious discussion about a combo box widget soon. dogfood's dying for one! maybe in the meeting tomorrow.
<SteveA> yeah, it's on the agenda
<BradB> woo
<carlos> BradB: is it normal I'm not able to filter my bugs at: https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/created
<carlos> everytime I try to select my name, the page reloads with "All users" selected
<SteveA> carlos and daf: rosetta item in tomorrow's meeting: getting rosetta alpha using the dogfood server.
<carlos> also, I don't understand why there are shortnames instead of full names (I'm not sure if the "carlos" I'm selected is the right one)
<SteveA> In the meeting tomorrow, can you be ready to discuss your plans for doing so, the steps involved, and how long it will take, and what help you need from others?
<BradB> carlos: sounds like you've got a couple bugs to report :P
<carlos> SteveA: not sure if daf is arround, I will ask as soon as he's back
<carlos> SteveA: If we can talk tonight, it's doable
<daf> carlos: I'm discussing it with Steve now
<carlos> oh
<carlos> ok :-)
<carlos> BradB: :-)
<carlos> BradB: I need to read more, it's already reported: https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/21
<carlos> BradB: ok, I found why I had to create the test database by hand
<carlos> BradB: you are catching psycopg.ProgrammingError
<carlos> but I'm getting: DatabaseException: FATAL:  database "launchpad_ftest" does not exist
<carlos> is it ok to change it?
<carlos> the problem is with the DROP DATABASE
<carlos> if the database does not exists the first time
<kiko-afk> just add a "-" before that line perhaps?
<BradB> ah /hah/. i see now why page test output gets chopped sometimes. e.g. sometimes the recorded http looks like:
<carlos> kiko-afk: it's inside python code
<BradB>           </fieldset>
<BradB>   <BLANKLINE>
<BradB>           <div class="separator"></div
<BradB> (randomly truncated)
<BradB> it's because of 303's
<carlos> kiko-afk:  not sure if that will work there
<BradB> carlos: that's not the problem dude.
<BradB> look at the except clause. it only propogates the exception if it was something *other* than the db not existing. :)
<BradB> otherwise it goes on to create the db further down
<carlos> BradB: but you are not getting the correct exception
<carlos> psycopg.ProgrammingError vs DatabaseException
<spiv> zope.app.rdb.interfaces.DatabaseException, I guess?
<BradB> >>> import psycopg
<BradB> >>> conn = psycopg.connect("dbname=template1")
<BradB> >>> cur = conn.cursor()
<BradB> >>> cur.execute("drop database alsjdfsd")
<BradB> Traceback (most recent call last):
<BradB>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
<BradB> psycopg.ProgrammingError: ERROR:  DROP DATABASE cannot run inside a transaction block
<BradB> drop database alsjdfsd
<BradB> heh
<carlos> spiv: yes, seems like it's that one
<BradB> >>> psycopg.__version__
<BradB> '1.1.15'
<carlos> Traceback (most recent call last):
<carlos>   File "./lib/canonical/rosetta/ftests/test_poexport.py", line 157, in testPoExportAdapter
<carlos>     project = Project.selectBy(name = 'gnome')[0] 
<carlos>   File "/home/carlos/Work/dists/launchpad/lib/sqlobject/main.py", line 958, in selectBy
<carlos>     cls._connection._SO_columnClause(cls, kw),
<carlos>   File "/home/carlos/Work/dists/launchpad/lib/sqlos/connection.py", line 45, in __get__
<carlos>     return getConnection(context, name)
<carlos>   File "/home/carlos/Work/dists/launchpad/lib/sqlos/connection.py", line 93, in getConnection
<carlos>     connCache[key]  = IZopeSQLConnection(newconn()).transaction()
<carlos>   File "/home/carlos/Work/dists/launchpad/sourcecode/zope/src/zope/app/rdb/__init__.py", line 153, in __call__
<carlos>     self.connect()
<carlos>   File "/home/carlos/Work/dists/launchpad/sourcecode/zope/src/zope/app/rdb/__init__.py", line 140, in connect
<carlos>     raise DatabaseException, str(error)
<carlos> DatabaseException: FATAL:  database "launchpad_ftest" does not exist
<carlos> ok
<carlos> sorry
<carlos> my fault
<carlos> the test queries the database
<carlos> but how could I force it to create it first?
<carlos> I thought it was done before the test run
<spiv> carlos: I think you need to use PgTestCase from canonical.ftests.pgsql?
<carlos> spiv: I'm doing it already
<carlos> class POExportTestCase(LaunchpadFunctionalTestCase):
<spiv> Hmm.
<carlos> it works as soon as the database exists the first time
<carlos> and after the functional tests pass I get:
<carlos> Exception exceptions.TypeError: <exceptions.TypeError instance at 0x30bef210> in <bound method Transaction.__del__ of <sqlobject.dbconnection.Transaction object at 0x30d42c90>> ignored
<spiv> carlos: Are you overriding setUp?
<carlos> no
<carlos> I have only a method
<carlos> def testPoExportAdapter(self):
<carlos> It's still a unittest not a doctest
<carlos> def test_suite():
<carlos>     loader = unittest.TestLoader()
<carlos>     return loader.loadTestsFromTestCase(POExportTestCase)
<carlos> if __name__ == '__main__':
<carlos>     unittest.main()
<kiko-afk> erhm
<spiv> carlos: I'm out of ideas.
<BradB> carlos: there's already a bug filed for SQLObject relying on __del__. you can ignore that.
<carlos> BradB: ok, what about the exception I get if the database does not exists? any idea?
<carlos> spiv: don't worry, I'm also out of ideas 
<BradB> carlos: debug it
<BradB> override setup, import pdb; pdb.set_trace()
<BradB> make sure to call super's setup, of course
<carlos> ok
<kiko-afk> where's stuberoola
<BradB> carlos: er, you may want to try simply inheriting from LaunchpadTestCase
<BradB> carlos: maybe LPFTC is out-of-date (even though i suggested inheriting from that one)
<BradB> er, no, i'd stick with debugging it first
<carlos> BradB: I think the problem is there (not sure)
<carlos> BradB: LaunchpadFunctionalTestCase is not calling the LaunchpadTestCase overrided methods
<carlos> BradB: I need a functional Zope3 instance so I think I need to inheriting from that class (or that's what the comment says)
<BradB> yeah
<spiv> carlos: Yeah, that looks like that could be the problem.
<daf> BradB: any objections to me adding bug IDs to Malone notification email subjects
<daf> BradB: ?
<carlos> BradB, spiv: Ok, thanks for the help, I will fix it now
<BradB> daf: i can do that. i'm still eliding my way through this new page test to prove that owners get subscribed to bugs they add though.
<daf> BradB: I've already started :)
<BradB> okie doke :)
<daf> in fact, I've got it working
<daf> I have one question, though
<daf> I could either have each caller of send_edit_notification put the ID in the subject themselves, or pass the ID (or the object, or the event) to send_edit_notification so that it adds the IDs to each one
<daf> preference?
<carlos> yeah, that was the problem, functional tests are working now without creating the database by hand
<BradB> daf: what did you do for adds?
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: autofocus first input element on translation page load (patch-753)
<sabdfl> BradB: yes, i agree, not having a test for your new feature means you can't cry when someone else checks in a change that breaks your feature
<daf> BradB: haven't done adds yet
<sabdfl> BradB: yes, also agree, selection widgets for person, package and product are top priority to get malone more widely useful
<daf> BradB: it could either be "new bug #123": blah blah blah" or "#123: new bug 'blah blah blah'"
<daf> BradB: or something along those lines
<sabdfl> daf: how does dilys work?
<sabdfl> can we get launchpad notifications to ping irc channels too?
<BradB> daf: i'd make send_edit_notification do it, wrap simple_send with a send_add_notification and have it automatically do it too (well, after passing in the bug as a param)
<daf> sabdfl: that's what I'm working on :)
<sabdfl> rock
<sabdfl> can you make it slightly general?
<daf> it's totally general
<sabdfl> ok
<daf> dilys is a really simple bot written in twisted
<daf> she listens on a socket for events
<daf> so any program can tell her to say stuff
<sabdfl> can we add ircchannel to Project, and send notifications accordingly?
<daf> at the moment, she's triggered by programs run from my .procmailrc
<sabdfl> for example, when a new bug is assigned to that product, send a message to that IRC channel
<daf> that's an interesting idea
<sabdfl> same with a bounty
<daf> launchpad would need to know how to communicate with dilys
<sabdfl> how about if we had a dilys of our own?
<sabdfl> part of the infrastructure?
<daf> sure, but you need to make sure she's running
<sabdfl> part of launchpad
<elmo> IRC bots are a freaking security  nightmare
<carlos> hmm, perhaps that could be extended to send jabber messages? :-)
<carlos> GForge does that
<elmo> any IRC bot running on our machines would have to run chrooted, as an unpriviledged user etc.
<elmo> and I'd REALLY like someone with a security slant to audit the code
* carlos sees elmo scared
<carlos> :-)
<daf> elmo: the code is 95 lines long
<elmo> carlos: I'm paid to be scared :P
<sabdfl> elmo: even for a bot that just sends messages, doesn't listen to the channel?
<elmo> daf: the code to dchroot is a couple of hundred lines - mdz found at least two security bugs in it.  what's your point?
<spiv> elmo: Well, it's implemented entirely in python, if that helps.
<daf> elmo: that the code would be quick to audit
<elmo> sabdfl: from what little I understand of IRC, you can't be a send only client - you have to listen to the server
<sabdfl> ok
<daf> elmo: I know, your job is to be paranoid
<elmo> spiv: yeah, it does
<sabdfl> ok, we'll find a way to implement this that elmo will like
<sabdfl> but in general, the idea is to allow project/product/package to have some contact info associated with them
<sabdfl> like jabber and irc channels
<sabdfl> email addresses perhaps
<sabdfl> and to have notifications sent to them
<sabdfl> i think it would be awesome if guys could say "this is our project irc channel"
<Kinnison> elmo: any word on when the archive on mawson will update regularly
<sabdfl> and then automatically get an irc ping when a new bug is filed against that product
<sabdfl> or when a new translation is added
<sabdfl> or a new bounty created
<elmo> Kinnison: that's still not working??
<Kinnison> dsilvers@rosetta:/srv/archive.ubuntu.com $ ls -l
<Kinnison> -rw-r--r--    1 archvsync archvsync 14981300 Nov  2 10:41 projectb.dump
<elmo> #$!&^"*
<Kinnison> I'd say not :-(
<daf> BradB: ping
* elmo tatoos "join is a string method" to his forehead
<BradB> daf: pong
<daf> BradB: gah, sorry
<daf> BradB: wasn't paying attention
<daf> BradB: yeah, that's the way I'd like to do it
<BradB> sounds good
<carlos> spiv: From the old functional test, I have this: self.ztm.commit()
<carlos> spiv: how could I do it with the new way to do the functional tests?
<carlos> or is not needed anymore?
<sabdfl> night all
<kiko-afk> night mark
<carlos> sabdfl: night
<daf> BradB: it seems to me that notify_bug_added only sends mail if the bug has an owner
<BradB> it always will. it's just a crap special case that i'm in the midst of fixing (eliding a second page test currently to prove it works)
<BradB> what should really be happening is that the owner gets added to the Cc list when they add a bug. then that crap special case gets ripped out.
<BradB> (which i can do in this checkin)
#launchpad 2004-11-21
<daf> I'm talking about global notifications
<daf> i.e. no global notification will get sent for new bugs that don't have owners
<BradB> as i say, all bugs do have owners currently
<BradB> in any case, there's no point thinking much about this, it's a bug of a sort (e.g. that it shouldn't be special-cased) and i'm fixing it with my next checkin.
<daf> ok :)
<daf> next question:
<daf> notify_bug_added seems to get called with a MaloneBugAddForm rather than a bug as the first parameter
<BradB> yep
<daf> so how do I get the bug itself?
<BradB> hence all that context.context.bug crap
<BradB> ("crap" i.e. in several places in the codebase)
<daf> does the bug exist when the notification is called?
<BradB> yes
<daf> is there some way of getting hold of it?
<daf> MaloneBugAddForm has no attribute 'id', y'see
<BradB> at worst, you can do event.object
<daf> that doesn't sound too bad
<BradB> the first param'll have to be renamed to describe whatever it is
<daf> why does the notification get the form rather than the object itself?
<daf> (Pdb) event.object
<daf> <canonical.launchpad.database.bug.MaloneBugAddForm object at 0xb37e020c>
<spiv> carlos: I suspect it's not needed, but I'm not usre.
<spiv> sure, rather.
<carlos> spiv: also, I'm having problems with a test class with two tests, the second one gives me an error because the connection is already closed
<carlos> spiv: the tests seems to be working (after commenting the commits, so seems like they are not needed, but I will activate the postgres debug info to be sure)
<BradB> daf: dunno.
<BradB> you'd have to debug AddView to get the exact answer
<daf> scary
<daf> perhaps I should leave the new bug notifications unchanged for now, then
<BradB> :)
<BradB> i can do it. possibly tonight.
<daf> where does AddView live?
<BradB> M-.
<BradB> AddView<RET>
<BradB> :P
<daf> I'm not familiar with all this notification stuff
<BradB> zope.app.form.browser.add
<daf> oh, you mean :tag AddView<RET> :)
<BradB> heh
<daf> hmm, the relevant line seems to be: notify(ObjectCreatedEvent(content))
<BradB> yep
<BradB> events are dead simple, to be honest
<BradB> looks like it's the fault of the custom factory someone wrote
<BradB> BugContainer.add
<BradB> last line is "return ob", but i think "return bug" would behave more sanely
<daf> groovy, shall I change it?
<BradB> you can see if it works. there's a chance all hell'll break loose too (but i'm kind of doubting that :P)
<daf> hmmmm
<daf>         return ob # Return this rather than the bug we created from it,
<daf>                   # as the return value must be adaptable to the interface
<daf>                   # used to generate the form.
<daf> that doesn't mean much to me
<BradB> eh, a bug should be adaptable to that interface, since the generated form is *for* a bug.
<daf> yeah, that would make sense
<daf> hmm, that didn't seem to change anything
<daf> where's the view for creating a bug kept?
<BradB> it would be that MaloneBugAddForm
<daf> interesting
<daf> the tal calls view/update
<BradB> that's canonical
<daf> which MaloneBugAddForm doesn't appear to have
<daf> it's mixed in from somewhere?
<BradB> no, but AddView does
<BradB> hm, the ZCML says this addform is for schema="canonical.launchpad.interfaces.IMaloneBugAddForm", which I find bizarre
<daf> why's that?
<BradB> I would have thought it'd be for schema IBug :)
<BradB> if instead it were for IBug, you'd be getting an IBug surely (for the params)
<daf> I'll try that
<BradB> and return bug would be The Right Thing
<daf> hmm, expolosion
<daf> zope.configuration.xmlconfig.ZopeXMLConfigurationError: File "/home/daf/src/canonical/dists/launchpad/site.zcml", line 5.4-5.35
<daf>     ZopeXMLConfigurationError: File "/home/daf/src/canonical/dists/launchpad/lib/canonical/configure.zcml", line 78.4-78.45
<daf>     ZopeXMLConfigurationError: File "/home/daf/src/canonical/dists/launchpad/lib/canonical/launchpad/configure.zcml", line 4.2-4.48
<daf>     ZopeXMLConfigurationError: File "/home/daf/src/canonical/dists/launchpad/lib/canonical/launchpad/zcml/configure.zcml", line 18.4-18.31
<daf>     ZopeXMLConfigurationError: File "/home/daf/src/canonical/dists/launchpad/lib/canonical/launchpad/zcml/bug.zcml", line 118.4
<daf>     ValueError: ('Field name is not in schema', u'sourcepackage', <InterfaceClass canonical.launchpad.interfaces.bug.IBug>)
* daf -> workrave
* BradB gets back from making a sandwich
<BradB> ah yeah, now i know why they did that
<BradB> because there's stuff on the add form that isn't part of IBug (e.g. package and product assignments)
<daf> right
<daf> it wouldn't be a problem if you could get the bug from the view class, but it doesn't seem possible
<carlos> spiv: ping
<spiv> pong
<carlos> spiv: seems like the current functional test status does not let you execute two tests inside the same class
<carlos> a class with two tests fails because the second one tries to drop the database but it's already open 
<spiv> That's bizarre.
<carlos> then the tests fails
<spiv> setUp and tearDown are supposed to be run for each test method.
<daf> BradB: any ideas, or shall I just leave it for now?
<spiv> You've tried running the second one alone (e.g. by commenting out the first)?
<carlos> no, let me try it
<carlos> it will take sometime...
<carlos> spiv: it's running and it was able to drop and recreate the database
<carlos> hmm, wait, I think I got the problem..
<carlos>  def tearDown(self):
<carlos>         super(LaunchpadFunctionalTestCase, self).tearDown()
<carlos>         FunctionalTestSetup().tearDown()
<carlos> Should I call the super method after the FunctionalTestSetup()tearDown()?
* carlos tests it
<carlos> daf: should we talk about the rosetta alpha move to the dogfood server?
* carlos is going to leave soon
<BradB> daf: i'd say leave it for now. if you tla undo i'll look at it, but more likely tomorrow.
<carlos> spiv: no that's not the problem, same error
<elmo> is there some way to get screen width in python without resorting to ncurses?
<elmo> num of chars I mean by width, not pixels or anything
<carlos> the postgres log shows lots of messages like: 
<carlos> 2004-11-10 01:04:27 [9019]  LOG:  statement: BEGIN; SET TRANSACTION ISOLATION LEVEL SERIALIZABLE
<carlos> 2004-11-10 01:04:27 [9019]  LOG:  statement: ABORT TRANSACTION
<carlos> 2004-11-10 01:04:27 [9019]  LOG:  statement: DROP DATABASE launchpad_ftest
<carlos> 2004-11-10 01:04:27 [9019]  ERROR:  database "launchpad_ftest" is being accessed
<carlos> by other users
<carlos> 2004-11-10 01:04:27 [9019]  LOG:  statement: ABORT
<carlos> 2004-11-10 01:04:27 [9019]  WARNING:  there is no transaction in progress
<daf> BradB: I'll leave new bugs using simple_sendmail now, and finish off the others tonight, I think
<carlos> and the second test fails with this trace:
<carlos> Traceback (most recent call last):
<carlos>   File "./lib/canonical/rosetta/ftests/test_poimport.py", line 28, in testTemplateImporter
<carlos>     project = Project.selectBy(name = 'gnome')[0] 
<carlos>   File "/home/carlos/Work/dists/launchpad/lib/sqlobject/main.py", line 1238, in __getitem__
<carlos>     return list(self.clone(start=start, end=start+1))[0] 
<carlos>   File "/home/carlos/Work/dists/launchpad/lib/sqlobject/main.py", line 1242, in __iter__
<carlos>     return conn.iterSelect(self)
<carlos>   File "/home/carlos/Work/dists/launchpad/lib/sqlobject/dbconnection.py", line 516, in iterSelect
<carlos>     select, keepConnection=True)))
<carlos>   File "/home/carlos/Work/dists/launchpad/lib/sqlobject/dbconnection.py", line 444, in __init__
<daf> elmo: $COLUMNS?
<carlos>     self.cursor = rawconn.cursor()
<carlos>   File "/home/carlos/Work/dists/launchpad/sourcecode/zope/src/zope/app/rdb/__init__.py", line 308, in cursor
<carlos>     return ZopeCursor(self.conn.cursor(), self)
<carlos> InterfaceError: already closed
<elmo> daf: hmm, I remembered that but env(1) didn't show it.. I guess it's a shell variable
<elmo> anyway, thanks
<daf> yeah, I'm not sure what sets it
<daf> probably the shell
<elmo> yeah, and it doesn't work in any spawned process, like python, :(
<elmo> >>> os.getenv("COLUMNS")
<elmo> >>> 
<daf> suck
<spiv> carlos: Hmm :/
<spiv> carlos: So I guess that means the other test isn't related (which is good)
<carlos> hmmm
* carlos is tired and does not read correctly...
<carlos> spiv: that error is from the first test :-O
<carlos> but it makes no sense 
<carlos> the line where it fails is the start of the test
<carlos> and it executes lots of queries...
<carlos> is it possible that they are executed in reversed order?
<carlos> hmm, that sucks, that functional test is not working as it should
<spiv> They're executed in an arbitrary order.
<carlos> but that's not a justification for the error
<spiv> Most likely dependent on the order they pop out of the dict of the test case.
<carlos> I mean, the functional test is not running as it was wrote, but it should not fail
<carlos> so I will care about it later, when the error is gone (the first should be executed first)
<spiv> Sorry, you mean the tests depend on being run in a certain order?
<carlos> spiv: that was the way it was designed, yes. Don't ask :-), those tests suck and needs  lot of love
<spiv> Ok :)
<carlos> one imports a file into the database (a .pot file) and the second one imports another file (a po file) related to the first
<carlos> with the current test database the functional tests have changed the objective of this functional test
<carlos> spiv: if you can tell me for sure that multiple functional tests should work, I could disable those test for now and write new ones that really work
<carlos> and forget this error
<spiv> Well, they *should* work, yeah :)
<carlos> ok, I believe you :-)
<carlos> I will "poke" you if the problem appears again :-P
<spiv> And, I think they even do work ;)
<spiv> A quick grep shows other places run them too.
<spiv> (canonical.mail, canonical.lp.placelessauth, canonical.ftests.test_sqlos)
<carlos> perhaps the problem is with LaunchpadFunctionalTestCase
<carlos> I didn't found a functional tests that uses it
<carlos> I will review tomorrow If I really need the Utilities and Adapters from Zope or I could move to LaunchpadTestCase
<spiv> A grep finds a couple of places that use it for me...
<spiv> (as mentioned above)
<carlos> hmm
* carlos needs to improve his grep command...
<BradB> daf: ok (re: doing id's for all but bug adding)
<carlos> spiv: could you point me to a concrete file, please?
<spiv> "grep -Irn class.*LaunchpadFunc"
<carlos> ok
<spiv> lib/canonical/ftests/test_sqlos.py
<stub> LaunchpadFunctionalTestCase was going to be first used in the page test stuff, but I found it wasn't needed - so it may be broken.
<BradB> tags? :)
<spiv> lib/canonical/lp/placelessauth/ftests/test_launchpadloginsource.py
<spiv> :)
<spiv> BradB: Ok, so my full command line is actually "grep -Irn class.*LaunchpadFunc . | grep -v tags:" :P
<BradB> heh
<stub> test_sqlos is a decoy, currently disabled
<carlos> spiv: then I don't have an example that works :-)
<stub> and test_launchpadlogingsource is doing its own provideUtility so might work just as well wth LaunchpadTestCase
<carlos> spiv: the test_launchpadloginsource.py only have a test inside the class
<carlos> stub: I'm having problems with LaunchpadFunctionalTestCase and a class with more than a test
<carlos> the second one fails
<daf> carlos: I'll write an email to the mailing list tonight
<carlos> daf: ok
<stub> carlos: That is not surprising - LaunchpadFunctionalTestCase does not appear to be calling its superclass' setUp and tearDown methods :-P
<carlos> stub: I fixed it already
<carlos> it's in my local archive
<carlos> will merge it tonight :-)
<carlos> grr
<carlos> spiv: I'm not able to commit my changes
<carlos> Ran 57 tests in 74.651s
<carlos> FAILED (errors=1)
<carlos> Exception psycopg.InterfaceError: 'already closed' in <bound method Transaction.__del__ of <sqlobject.dbconnection.Transaction object at 0x41c8c6cc>> ignored
<carlos> ---- end test stderr ----
<carlos> make: *** [check]  Error 1
<carlos> pqm rejects them because that
<stub> carlos: I didn't think make check was looking at stderr to see if things succeeded or failed? That bug needs to be fixed upstream, and I thought existing tests were already triggering it
<carlos> stub: seems like I'm getting an error in any tests but I'm not sure about which one is it:
<carlos>   File "/home/pqm/arch/queue/workdir/rocketfuel@canonical.com/rocketfuel@canonical.com---launchpad--devel--0/launchpad/lib/zope/app/rdb/__init__.py", line 308, in cursor
<carlos>     return ZopeCursor(self.conn.cursor(), self)
<carlos> InterfaceError: already closed
<carlos> it's not too much descriptive
<stub> ok. I think that was the area I tried fixing and I thought BradB had finally nailed ;-(
<carlos> I know the functional test I'm chaning are broken, but they were already broken before any change from my part, so I don't understand why the system is complaning now about it
<carlos>  /s/chaning/changing/
<stub> You might be able to get better output running 'python test.py canonical' instead of 'make check'
<stub> fwiw, you might find the test runs happily standalone (python test.py test_powhatever), but fails if run in a batch. If this is the case, it is a bug in the setup/teardown stuff because a previous test is leaving the system in a bad state.
<carlos> ok, I will look at it tomorrow then, 3:00AM is too late to deal with them 
<carlos> thanks
<carlos> and night!!
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: added bug submitter to Cc list when new bug is added (patch-754)
<stub> sabdfl: Do teams have karma?
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Database updates (patch-755)
<sabdfl> stub: hmm.... good question
<sabdfl> nothing in the data model to prevent that
<sabdfl> but since teams can't log in, i guess we want to collect karma around the individual
<sabdfl> lifeless: around?
<Kinnison> Morning
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Make subject lines in Malone notification emails contain bug IDs (patch-756)
<Kinnison> Morning cprov
<cprov> Kinnison: morning 
* Kinnison loads the archive mirror elmo did yesterday and prepares to run gina
<Kinnison> so we have nice up-to-date dogfood for today
<Kinnison> gina running...
<cprov> Kinnison: great !
<Kinnison> Meeting is in 55 minutes yes?
<SteveA> yes
<Kinnison> cool
* Kinnison wonders if daf will show up this time :-)
<stub> Dogfood was updated yesterday. Do another drop now?
<Kinnison> codebase drop?
<Kinnison> can it wait until gina has finished running?
<stub> Sure
<Kinnison> otherwise you'll be stuck unable to frobble the db or the librarian codebase :-)
<Kinnison> spiv: ping?
<Kinnison> spiv: this is why I thought we were multithreaded:
<Kinnison> 2004/11/10 11:02 GMT [FileUploadProtocol,0,127.0.0.1]  Enabling Multithreading.
<sabdfl> stub: i'm seeing odd test failures where the "bounty" table cannot be found
<sabdfl> but it seems very much integrated in patch 4-05
<sabdfl> any idea what i'm doing wrong?
<stub> have you restarted launchpad after applying the patch?
<sabdfl> i'm just running make in database/schema
<sabdfl> then running make check at the top level
<stub> that should be fine... hmm...
<sabdfl> launchpad_dev=# select * from launchpaddatabaserevision;
<sabdfl>  major | minor | patch
<sabdfl> -------+-------+-------
<sabdfl>      4 |     5 |     0
<sabdfl> (1 row)
<stub> Urgh... bad patch. Made two mistakes! (with the first masking the second!)
<sabdfl> ok
<spiv> Kinnison: Hmm.
<Kinnison> cprov: gina is up to openoffice
<spiv> Kinnison: storing files is properly threaded, 
<Kinnison> spiv: including writing to the db?
<spiv> Well, only writing to the db :)
<spiv> The writing to a temp file isn't threaded, because it doesn't need to be.
<Kinnison> So if upload is threaded; why would it be hard to thread download?
<spiv> It's not hard.
<Kinnison> aah
<elmo> is there a more idiomatic way to split the last work off a string than: ' '.join(s.split()[:-1] )
<Kinnison> I got the impression you had decided it was
<spiv> It just a Simple Matter Of Programming :)
<elmo> +?
<spiv> Well, it's annoying more than anything else.
<elmo> s/work/word/
<SteveA> elmo: no
<cprov> Kinnison: fine, I'm trying to set a small librarian upload_client locally, librarian starts ok, but when I try to upload some file I get: canonical.librarian.client.UploadFailed: Server said: 500 Internal server error, any idea ?  do I need to create the DB entires for sourcepackagereleasefile by hand ?
<spiv> cprov: Look in the log file.
<spiv> (For the server)
<Kinnison> cprov: yeah; the log file should contain a traceback
<Kinnison> cprov: you most likely haven't given it a dir to write the files into
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Fix bad database patch (patch-757)
<SteveA> elmo: you could make it very explicit, like this:
<SteveA> >>> s = "foo bar baz"
<SteveA> >>> words = s.split()
<SteveA> >>> words.pop()
<SteveA> 'baz'
<SteveA> >>> s = ' '.join(words)
<SteveA> >>> s
<SteveA> 'foo bar'
<SteveA> >>>
<cprov> spiv: yep, sqlobject/dbconnect.py lineline 507, in iterSelect | select, keepConnection=True)) | exceptions.TypeError: iteration over non-sequence
<ddaa> SteveA: is there a particular policy that all "make check" test should be run with a PYTHONPATH which include launchpad/lib?
<elmo> SteveA: hmm, ok, thanks
<SteveA> ddaa: the stuff that I have added to make check arranges its own sys.path
<ddaa> SteveA: that is forcing an annoyingly trivial delta between the canonical and public versions of PyArch, which does not depend on anything else in launchpad.
<SteveA> in general, stuff that you run as a script, or that is invoked directly by a makefile, can set sys.path properly
<SteveA> what exactly is forcing the difference?
<spiv> cprov: Do you have the latest SQLObject? (rocketfuel@canonical.com/sqlobject--test--0.6--patch-4)
<ddaa> -PYTHONPATH=$(PWD)/../../lib:$(PWD)
<ddaa> +PYTHONPATH=$(PWD)
<ddaa> That's the delta between Canonical and public.
<ddaa> I am not too sure why I added in the first place, but there might have been a good reaon.
<SteveA> ddaa: running make check from the 'launchpad' directory does not need a special pythonpath to be set
<cprov> spiv: I must verify, maybe not, just a minute
<ddaa> SteveA: actually, that's to run make check from the sourcecode/pyarch directory
<spiv> cprov: Otherwise, I'll need to see more of the traceback...
<ddaa> But that's needless, since it does not depend on anything there...
<ddaa> Just want to be sure removing that would not break some policy.
<SteveA> I don't see why we should be using a separate version of pyarch, seeing as it lives in launchpad/sourcecode/
<stub> 'make check' shouldn't need python path manipulation being done, because I hacked test.py  to add lib into the path
* ddaa happily syncs canonical pyarch with the public version
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/pyarch--devel--0.5: merge test suite refactoring (still incomplete) (patch-52)
<SteveA> hi carlos
<carlos> hi
<SteveA> carlos: there is still a stub.{py,zcml} in rosetta
<SteveA> and comments refering to sql in configure.zcml
<carlos> should stub.* files be removed?
<cprov> spiv: my tree (sourcecode/sqlobject) is up to date, please look in http://jeffsblog.info/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=240
<SteveA> and various obselete crap in the Makefile
<SteveA> absolutely
<carlos> I think daf wanted to preserve them (not sure if it's still valid after the big movement of files...)
<SteveA> let's get rid of them
<carlos> ok
<SteveA> if stuff isn't being used, we should remove it
<SteveA> if stuff isn't being tested, we should write tests for it, or remove it.
<SteveA> it will always be available in the archive's history
<Kinnison> elmo: can you refresh the archive on mawson?
<Kinnison> elmo: I think you caught it mid-xorg upload
<SteveA> it is important to have clean code, clean source directories, and up to date comments
<carlos> ok
<Kinnison> IOError: [Errno 2]  No such file or directory: '/srv/archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu//pool/main/x/xorg/xfree86-common_6.8.1-1ubuntu1_all.deb'
<SteveA> did you and daf look at the i18n information I sent to you before I went on vacation?
<spiv> cprov: Hmm, there's something funny going on.
<carlos> SteveA: daf was looking on it, not sure its current status at this moment
<cprov> spiv: what :)
<elmo> Kinnison: nah, the archive probably was actually like that
<spiv> cprov: line 507 of lib/sqlobject/dbconnection.py seems to wrong.  Are you *sure* it's up to date? :)
<elmo> but i'll update it anyway
<Kinnison> elmo: thanks dude.
<SteveA> carlos: we need to move along with this.  rosetta needs to lead the way in being internationalized
<SteveA> then, we'll be able to dogfood on rosetta as well as alpha testing it with a few volunteers
* SteveA will bbiab
* Kinnison heads to grab lunch before the meeting starts
<cprov> spiv: not sure, tla update in sourcecode/sqlobject says that
<spiv> cprov: What's the tree-version?
<cprov> rocketfuel@canonical.com/sqlobject--test--0.5.1
<spiv> That's not up to date?
<spiv> I mean,
<spiv> That's not up to date :)
<carlos> SteveA: hmm, something is going really bad in the alpha server
<spiv> We're using --0.6 now.
<carlos> I get system error with every url I try to visit
<cprov> spiv: ehe, so can you drive me to update it ...
<spiv> cprov: Do you have baz installed?
<cprov> spiv: no yet
<spiv> cprov: If so, you should just be able to run "baz switch rocketfuel@canonical.com/sqlobject--test--0.6" in sourcecode/sqlobject
<spiv> cprov: I recommend it :)
<spiv> "baz diff" is much easier to type than "tla changes --diffs" :)
<SteveA> is baz in hoary?
<carlos> SteveA: not yet (or I don't see it)
<cprov> spiv: ok, I will install it, then do "switch" to --0.6 ... just some minutes :)
<SteveA> meeting time folks!
<spiv> SteveA: I use deb http://bazaar.canonical.com/packages/debs ./
* Kinnison waves. I'm here
<SteveA> all not present say "nay!"
<carlos> nay!
<spiv> n-- oh. :)
<SteveA> I can see you here, carlos
<SteveA> ok, all present, please say something
<carlos> X-)
* SteveA says something
<carlos> I didn't saw the "not" :-P
<spiv> Damn trick questions :)
<BradB> meep
<cprov> here
* Kinnison waves. I'm still here :-)
<cprov> spiv: we can talk briefly about the sqlobject update after meeting, ok ?
<SteveA> stub: ?
<SteveA> daf: ?
<SteveA> sabdfl: ?
<sabdfl> im here
<spiv> cprov: Sure.
<stub> Greetings
<SteveA> let's get started
<SteveA> item 1: UI widgets that cope with people and projects etc.
<SteveA> what should we do about this?
<SteveA> there are a couple of different options.
<sabdfl> this is now critical to get malone usable
<sabdfl> bradb, would you agree?
<BradB> yes
<sabdfl> we have a couple of options
<sabdfl> on the people front, we could use a well-sorted dropdown listbox that only lists people with passwords
<sabdfl> so you could only assign a bug to someone with a password in the system
<sabdfl> that would reduce the list dramatically
<sabdfl> and make a dropdown sufficient
<SteveA> this will still be an interim measure, as we expect to grow a lot
<sabdfl> can anyone think of cases where such a measure would fail us?
<sabdfl> for example, where you want to assign a bug to someone who is NOT a canonical user?
<BradB> yeah
<stub> Product bug assignments will get assigned to the developers
<stub> I think we need to cope with thousands of options, just like the other problem widgets
<SteveA> isn't it a bit rude to assign someone a bug when they can't log into the system?
<BradB> SteveA: it's a bit practical
<BradB> it doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility to me
<carlos> SteveA: but they will be able to log into it if they activate their account, right?
<sabdfl> stub: sure, we need t be able to handle the full case, i'm just trying to find a way to get malone usable by the warty team asap
<sabdfl> hoary team, really
<sabdfl> for packages and products, i don't thnk a straight dd-listbox would be workable
<SteveA> what are our options?  1. reduce the number of people we need to select from (as an interim measure)  2. use a cached javascript datastructure (slightly longer term interim measure)  3. fancy javascript HTTP stuff to dynamically search people on a single page
<stub> sabdfl: Short term the dropdown should be fine then.
<sabdfl> for people, yes
<SteveA> 4. type in thing like in bugzilla
<carlos> I like the current Bugzilla solution
<Kinnison> is that not a cached javascript thing?
<sabdfl> stevea: limi did some tests on the current bugzilla code
<sabdfl> it doesn't scale beyond about 2,000 items
<BradB> sabdfl: surely it can be made to be though.
<sabdfl> it also does not really allow you to search for anything other than a flat namespace
<sabdfl> BradB: not easily
<sabdfl> you end up downloading a huge page (which takes time) and then get---a---very-----jerky-----typing----experience
!lilo:*! Hi all.  Reminder, if you're in the US and you want to attend the second day of the FTC's email authentication summit by phone, it begins in about 45 minutes, and the conference info is here: http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/workshops/e-authentication/ .... thanks!
<carlos> I'm talking about the entry that is submitted and then in a new form shows you the people that match that name, not the product thing
<BradB> depending on the definition of "not easily" a good combo box is definitely something that would be music to users' ears
<sabdfl> i would really like to have something slick using lucene client side, but we dont have the skills inhouse to tackle that
<kiko> carlos, that's user matching, and it works in a quite ingenious fashion.
<elmo> [it doesn't scale as it is now - reporting a bug is painful - it loads > 500kb of crap just so you can enter the component field] 
<stub> 4. Use popup search dialogs
!lilo:*! And please feel free to join us on ##ftc-summit (please note the two #'s).... thanks!
<stub> c/4/5
<SteveA> I think for the people field, we've agreed that limiting people to those who can log in is sufficient for right now.
<sabdfl> limi's recommendation was to do an xmlrpc query in javascript
<sabdfl> SteveA: agreed
<spiv> carlos: Yes, I like that too.
<sabdfl> who knows JavaScript around here?
<SteveA> (technical issue: easier to do an HTTP GET, better for authentication and sessions, requires less javascript, and achieves the same end.)
<sabdfl> spiv, carlos, where can i see the bugzilla example?
<spiv> carlos: Although it's not very discoverable :/
<SteveA> I know a bit.  It is a bit rusty, but I've done this kind of dynamic stuff before.
<sabdfl> stevea: so the JS does an HTTP GET or POST, to a known URL?
<carlos> sabdfl: add someone to the CC field of any bug
<SteveA> the bugger is always in the cross-browser testing
<spiv> sabdfl: Add "Daniel" as an assignment or CC, it should then prompt on the next page.
<carlos> sabdfl: and type just "Mark" 
<carlos> sabdfl: it will give you a list of users with that name
<spiv> (Or any ambiguous name.  If there's only one match, it'll pick it automatically though)
<SteveA> sabdfl: yes, that's right.  and it returns something the js can handle.  either an xml doc, or some text, or some js. 
<SteveA> the known url might be relative to the current one, for example.
<sabdfl> this sounds quite manageable
<sabdfl> need to design the query interface
<sabdfl> and the response data structure
<sabdfl> and then make it look relatively good
<sabdfl> would xml be the best structured data format for JS to parse?
<kiko> not really.
<kiko> the best structured data format would be, well, a JS array.
<sabdfl> what would you recommend, kiko?
<sabdfl> ok, so we can send back an actual JS datastructure?
<SteveA> depends.  if it is just a list of names, or names and email addresses, then some js or space delimited text is best
<kiko> sure, we could just return a .js file and eval it.
<sabdfl> for people, would be browsername, name and email addresses
<sabdfl> eval... is that how you would return a JS array?
<SteveA> that's how you get returned JS from the server incorporated into the JS runtime of the page
<SteveA> so that you can use it in the page
<sabdfl> ok
<SteveA> then you need to do some DOM stuff to make the UI display change
<sabdfl> right
<Kinnison> I take it that we're not able to wait for hoaryconf for implementing this? Otherwise I'd offer to bring my javascript and dhtml references to the conference
<sabdfl> so, should we divide this problem up between us, or assign it all to one person
<SteveA> it is pretty straightforward, so long as you don't try to do asynchronous stuff
<sabdfl> this is something we really need asap
* Kinnison nods
<sabdfl> SteveA: how do you want to organise this to get it done
* SteveA considers
<SteveA> let's make a one-page prototype of it, to prove the concept in launchpad
<sabdfl> ok
<SteveA> if no-one else feels particularly attracted to the task, I'll take it on.  Volunteers who know some javascript welcome, though.
<sabdfl> ok
* SteveA waits for calls of "no wait, I'll do it"
<sabdfl> bradb, can you make the "person" dropdown limit itself to people with passwords?
<SteveA> ok, I'll do it.
<carlos> SteveA: I need to learn javascript first, long ago since last time I used it
<BradB> sabdfl: yes
<sabdfl> great
<SteveA> how many different browsers do we have available to test this with? 
<sabdfl> firefox and ie
<carlos> SteveA: I can test it with explorer for mac, safari
<stub> I've got a Windows partition
<carlos> and also explorer 5 and 6
<carlos> and of course firefox/mozilla :-)
<SteveA> I don't know whether the HTTP stuff in javascript works outside of mozilla and IE-based browsers
<SteveA> it didn't a while ago.
!lilo:*! l-fy tells us that after 5 months of hard work, YATE 0.8.4 is now out.... YATE is Yet Another Telephony Engine .... for more information, see http://yate.null.ro/pmwiki/ .... thanks!
<kiko> there is indeed a client-side concern
<sabdfl> kiko: what's that?
<Kinnison> what if they user has javascript disabled?
<Kinnison> or set to disallow outgoing javascript connections?
<stub> Safari doesn't have xml/xmlrpc stuff. I think it is fine for HTTP stuff.
<SteveA> they'd have to type in email addresses from memory, perhaps
<kiko> whether the browser supports the JS we want to use. we can sniff and disable it, but we need to take into account that some people won't be able to use it (lynx users, anyone?)
<kiko> that's fine if it works. just need to ensure it does.
<sabdfl> the other way to do this would be with wizards
<sabdfl> where the form has to be submitted several times to get what you want
<stub> I think fallback to no-js browsers should be a secondary consideration - we need a system *some* people can use at least, and can work on a system *everyone* can use later.
<sabdfl> has anybody got experience with zope3 wizards?
<SteveA> there will always be the HCT-style tools for non-JS folks
<SteveA> who really want to use the command line
<stub> I wrote the Z3 wizard code, which may still work, but I don't think it is what you want in this situation.
<sabdfl> ok
<SteveA> Are we done on large-collections-of-things-selectors?
<BradB> SteveA: will your demo include multi-selection?
<SteveA> I'll do a proof-of-concept dynamic JS thing, Brad can make a list of people who can log in
<stub> SteveA: Let me know if it is going to be a slow job. I can rip out the 'popup search' logic from Roundup if necessary.
<stub> (which is a suckier UI, but simpler to implement)
<SteveA> BradB: is this stuff a reasonable target for what you want?  http://plone.org/Members/limi/tests/ubersearchwidget
<sabdfl> should we just use popup for the moment, if it's much simpler?
<sabdfl> we have longer to get it right, need to get it out there sooner
<BradB> SteveA: i commented on that to the list last week. i'm not a huge fan of the way it's described in that page. it seems that what we've just discussed is a different, more usable approach.
<sabdfl> that early draft looked crap. alex did a lot of work on it while he was here
<SteveA> where is alex's latest work on that?
<sabdfl> BradB: you mean, the http get approach?
<BradB> sabdfl: no, the layout and selection of the results is really cumbersome.
<kiko> it's a lot of real estate.
<SteveA> stub: can you get the pop-up stuff working soon?
<stub> sabdfl: I'll try knocking something up quickly tomorrow - if it works happily the popup idea man be useful in the future even after the JS version replaces it for the product/sourcepackage selects
<sabdfl> BradB: i agree if you are saying the ubersearchwidget looks cumbersome
<BradB> yep, that's what i'm saying :)
<SteveA> I think if we get something like what alex proposed, we can mess around with the UI of it later.  it is the "workflow" if it that I'm most concerned about getting to work.
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> would this all be inside a form field in the actual form?
<SteveA> the dynamic stuff?  yes, although the JS for it would probably live in a file included in the standard page header
<kiko> this is precisely my and Brad's point -- do we need to redesign the pages to accomodate for this search form?
<kiko> oh. that's something else :)
<SteveA> the search form to select a person ought to be just one rather large widget
<SteveA> as far as zope forms are concerned
<sabdfl> did we establish if there's a way to pass information to widgets to help them display themselves?
<BradB> SteveA: eeg, i hope not :) that takes way too much effort.
<sabdfl> canyou have forms within forms?
<sabdfl> that sounds nasty
<Kinnison> sabdfl: IIRC no you can't nest <form>s
<SteveA> BradB: that doesn't mean that you *have* to use it that way.  But, that it can be used that way.
<BradB> SteveA: considering that when you add a bug you currently have three values that need choosing from large lists.
<kiko> Kinnison, you are indeed correct.
<sabdfl> BradB: so, do you think it should be a wizard?
<BradB> sabdfl: no. wizards are meant for things that are done rarely enough that one needs handholding to complete the process. they hurt power users.
<BradB> i like the popup idea for this.
<sabdfl> so...
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> popups are going to be hated on principle
<SteveA> browsers handle this kind of pop up fairly well -- they are directly initiated from a mouse click
<kiko> well, unless we get the w3c to speed up and the feature implemented in at least FF...
<BradB> it seems to take the silver medal to a combo box
<SteveA> so mozilla knows they are legitimate
<stub> We implemented the popup stuff for Roundup at Common Ground - seems to be quite well accepted. People are aware that there might be slicker ways of doing it, but are happy using the popups.
<sabdfl> ok, let's go with popups for the first round
<spiv> I've never had the roundup one break due to mozilla's popup blocking.
<sabdfl> that at least keeps the form tight
<kiko> I think it's the only realy solution that is cheap on real estate and familiar enough to use.
<sabdfl> because it doesn't take a log of space to display the person, product or package that has been selected
<SteveA> does gmail have any tricks we can "borrow" ?
<sabdfl> i shudder at thinking about bending zope3 auto-form widgetry to our will on this
<sabdfl> is it not better to have some Python code that generates the HTML that we can call?
<SteveA> the HTML of the pop-up?
<BradB> sabdfl: the deliverable should be a new kind of Z3 widget. once we've figured out how to solve this in a prototype, it should be easy to genericize as a Z3 widgete.
<BradB> widget, even
<sabdfl> then have a <div tal:replace="structure view/makeWidget">
<SteveA> that would be a separate view altogether, as it is a page on its own
<SteveA> sabdfl: we can do that, if it is easier.
<BradB> it'll be the same as any other Z3 widget really (except it'll take different init params, of course)
<SteveA> I'd like us to review what we have decided about people and package selectors, and then move on.
<sabdfl> i'm talking about the forms that have these selectors on them
<sabdfl> are we going to try to make them work well with the autogenerated forms?
<BradB> sabdfl: yeah, that's what i'm saying. this'll be a widget like any other. (why wouldn't it be, afterall?)
<SteveA> it isn't hard -- they take the same input from a browser as any other widget that handles the same kind of data
<SteveA> this is just overriding the presentation of the data
<SteveA> as far as the code is concerned
<BradB> yep
<sabdfl> hello?
<sabdfl> SteveA: let's pick up the pace of this meeting
<SteveA> the complex icky parts of a widget are those that handle form data sent by the browser
<SteveA> I'd like us to review what we have decided about people and package selectors, and then move on.  (restated)
<SteveA> 1. brad will make a people-who-can-log-in selection
<SteveA> 2. stub will work on a pop-up people/packages selector
<sabdfl> ok, some net weirdness, y'all disappeared
<SteveA> 3. steve will do a proof-of-concept-js thing
<SteveA> all done?
<stub> yup
<BradB> yes
<kiko> right
<sabdfl> ok
<SteveA> dogfood:  how is it going?
<SteveA> all new bugs shoudl be filed in dogfood malone now, right Brad?
<Kinnison> can dogfood malone email people now?
<BradB> SteveA: *have* to be :) i got jdub to disable the lp product in bugzilla
<BradB> Kinnison: yes
<SteveA> yay
<carlos> kiko: yes, I got already some mails
<kiko> nice
<Kinnison> Excellent.
<kiko> are we migrating bugs from bz?
<BradB> dilys integration should happen todayish
<sabdfl> do we have the bug watch updater running on mawson?
<BradB> kiko: i filed a bug for that. it's probably a topic for the next or next-next meeting
<sabdfl> so we can set watches on bugzilla bugs?
* BradB doesn't know anything about that. stub?
<stub> No - I pinged elmo about basic auth but didn't chase it through.
<stub> Watches are up and running, but our own bugzilla is problematic because of security (erm... not basic auth... SSL certificate I think?)
<SteveA> can we not allow things based on ip address in this case?
<elmo> stub: huh?
<SteveA> mawson has an "intranet" ip address wrt the bugzilla
<BradB> bugzilla watching is of very low priority to be honest. we're dogfooding, so even if it worked perfectly, you wouldn't know.
<stub> elmo: mawson needs to access the canonical bugzilla without a client certificate or basic auth.
<BradB> of high priority is bug resolution workflow, because people are going to go in and fix bugs that i've already fixed.
<stub> SteveA: Oh - if "intranet" access means no cert or basic auth required, it should be working right now.
<elmo> stub: it doesn't use client cert or basic auth (via apache), the auth is done on the bugzilla side?
<SteveA> stub: I'm making a suggestion that mandatory authentication in bugzilla could be turned off for requests originating at mawson.
<BradB> are we sure we want to discuss bugzilla watching in this meeting? :)
<SteveA> yes.  can we have bugzilla watching soon?
<sabdfl> watching is a neat way to transition to malone
<SteveA> I'm not really too bothered about the details
<stub> elmo: bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com is publicly available?
<kiko> AFAIK it is
<SteveA> how about stub and elmo and brad can sort out bugzilla watching after the meeting?
<sabdfl> elmo: the goal is for malone on mawson to be able to check the status of bugzilla bugs without needting to do client cert or basic auth
<sabdfl> next?
<SteveA> daf: ping
<elmo> stub: yes - but bugzilla won't let you see anything until you login
<daf> SteveA: pong
<sabdfl> hiya daf
<stub> eek.... how embarassing... all those bugs are open to the world ;)
<daf> sabdfl: hi
<BradB> SteveA: it was something i wasn't planning to think about until a week from now. my time is probably better spent making it possible to resolve bugs, right? :)
<stub> ok. Watches should be available right now on our internal bugzillas, and if it don't work it is a bug and should be reported!
<SteveA> daf and carlos: would you talk about getting rosetta to use the dogfood system?
<sabdfl> bradb - can you not resolve a bug by editing the assignment to mark it "closed"?
<Kinnison> <interjection style="prof. farnsworth">Good news people! Gina just completed an update to today's hoary</interjection>
<daf> SteveA: sure
<sabdfl> Kinnison: rock
<carlos> yep
<BradB> sabdfl: kind of...there's no filtering though, so it doesn't buy you a heck of a lot (the amount of effort to actually find if something you're about to report has already been reported, and then from there already been resolved is enough to call it unusable.)
<elmo> stub: eh, which bugzilla are you looking at?
<BradB> sabdfl: and also, what if the bug is "closed", but there's still two package infestations saying "affected"? do we still show the package maintainer those in the bug listing?
<SteveA> BradB: I wasn't clear.  By "sort out bugzilla watching", I meant "sort out how we're going to go about it, and write a message to that effect to the mailing list"
<sabdfl> bradb good point
<BradB> SteveA: ok
<SteveA> I'd like to defer discussion particular to malone to a malone meeting sometime after this meeting
<SteveA> as we are rather dragging on today
<sabdfl> BradB: mdz wanted a "pending upload" state
<sabdfl> for the assignment
<sabdfl> maybe we should change "closed" to "pending upload"
<BradB> SteveA: the sanity of bug workflow though depends on the people that are using it, so we need input not only "also", but rather "especially" from not-malone people. :)
<sabdfl> then add a field to point at the "fixed" package
<sabdfl> so "pending upload" is basically "closed" without a fixing package
<sabdfl> SteveA: ok
<BradB> sabdfl: we need closed though.
<sabdfl> yes
<SteveA> BradB: sure, but we can continue that after the other stuff in this meeting
<SteveA> daf and carlos
<BradB> SteveA: sure
<sabdfl> but you're right, there is a problem with a bug marked "closed" without a package that closes it
<SteveA> what are you going to do to get rosetta on the dogfood system?
<SteveA> what help do you need from others?
<SteveA> how long will it take?
<carlos> after the launchpad's mails we can assume then that our alpha testers will use the dogfood sytem, right?
<SteveA> when you're done movingn it, yes
<SteveA> although, the domain name they use will be the same as it is now
<sabdfl> same db, same code, different domain
<carlos> ok
<sabdfl> need to (a) move user accounts, (b) move PO/POT files
<SteveA> I need a list of the things that are "particular" to the rosetta alpha system
<daf> the trickiest bit as far as I can see, is hiding Malone and Soyuz from the testers
<daf> perhaps we can do this using layers
<SteveA> such as having a custom front page, or whatever
<sabdfl> we need to solve that problem anyhow
<sabdfl> maybe we should solve it properly now
<stub> Can we just run multiple launchpad instances talking to the same database?
<SteveA> daf: I think that should be as simple as using the correct virtual hosting proxy rule
<SteveA> stub: we can, but I'd rather not do so if they are to have different code on them.
<SteveA> the code should be exactly the same
<daf> SteveA: really?
<daf> SteveA: how will it know to hide the tabs?
<stub> SteveA: Sure. A code drop would mean updating two codebases rather than one.
<SteveA> daf: get me the list of what is significantly "forked" in the code, and we'll work through it
<daf> I think it's mainly the main template
<SteveA> stub: we'd need to start thinking about ZEO if there was a round-robin/load balancing involved.  For different domains, no problem with our current use of ZODB.
<SteveA> daf: ok, we can fix that with layers.
<sabdfl> would it be easier if we just publish everything at launchpad.ubuntu.com?
<SteveA> then fix it properly when I've done the context stuff discussed yesterday
<carlos> sabdfl: then all alpha testers will have access to all applications, is that what we want?
<SteveA> sabdfl: that doesn't make anything easier
<sabdfl> use some sort of client-cert bsaed filtering to block access to directories other than /rosetta/ for the rosetta testers
<sabdfl> SteveA: ok, will leave it in your hands
<SteveA> daf: so, as a matter of priority, make the appropriate change on the rosetta layer of the main launchpad code
<sabdfl> i'm wondering whether we want to have people think of them each as distinct, or as a single system
<SteveA> daf: is there anything else in the code that needs changing ?
<daf> SteveA: other than that, it's changing the database and the ports used, I think
<sabdfl> for example, for an upstream project foo.org, do we want them to just setup launchpad.foo.org and get bugs/bounties/translations/packages/support all in one
<sabdfl> or do we want them to setup rosetta.foo.org and malone.foo.org etc.
<SteveA> daf: ok.  Can you do the template change today, and start working on the moving of user accounts and product imports and po/pot export-import ?
<SteveA> daf: please stick up a wiki page with the list of tasks for getting rosetta using the dogfood system, estimate them, then start them
<carlos> SteveA: do we have a cron jobs policy?
<carlos> SteveA: we will need something like that to feed the database
<carlos> with updated translations
<daf> carlos: but we don't need that yet, do we?
<carlos> launchpad dogfood server has lots of products already
<SteveA> do you have that on rosetta alpha already?
<carlos> and if we want to add their translations.. I hope we don't do it by hand
<carlos> not yet
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<SteveA> so it is a separate task, after getting rosetta alpha running on the dogfood system
!lilo:*! Actually, the conference has started now, please check the url for information on how to connect
<carlos> but the script is almost ready (need to do some code refactoring)
<kiko> sabdfl, launchpad.foo.org makes things a lot easier, IMO, and preserves the "launchpad brand"
<SteveA> it should not delay getting rosetta to use the dogfood system
<stub> sabdfl: If they have malone.foo.org and rosetta.foo.org, they will also need foaf.foo.org (or else foaf would have to be available under both malone.foo.org and rosetta.foo.org)
<carlos> ok
<kiko> I would love not having a soyuz virtualhost.
<kiko> (because that means a virtualhost for each service)
<daf> carlos: well, updating translations by cron job is not the same as importing
<SteveA> daf: let me know when the wiki page is done, okay?
<kiko> virtualhosts could be used to redirect into lp.../soyuz/ if the client wanted so
<carlos> daf: the update can also do the import automatically
<sabdfl> ok, and launchpad.foo.org we could get working a LOT sooner
<sabdfl> also simplifies URL's, since everything is then in a fixed structure
<kiko> YES!
<sabdfl> and if we needed the separate virtual host thing, we can develop it later
<kiko> well
<daf> SteveA: sure
<SteveA> so long as there is an easy API to get the public URL of something, it should be easy to change our minds later
<kiko> as I said, it complicates URLs significantly; I'd rather soyuz.launchpad.org -> www.launchpad.org/soyuz automagically. and *that* be sold as the vhosting solution.
<daf> carlos: hmm, is an update really the same as the import?
<carlos> sabdfl: what happens with our current alpha test domain? a forward to launchpad.shuttleworthfoundation.org/ ?
<Kinnison> kiko: I agree
<SteveA> I suggest to keep the rosetta alpha as it is, from the outside
<kiko> because you also need to consider
<kiko> what if the person doesn't want a foaf.foo.org?
<carlos> daf: as we are not creating new products/projects and we use soyuz information, yes
<kiko> or rosetta.foo.org?
<sabdfl> kiko: what complicates url's?
<kiko> virtualhosting projects independently, sabdfl
<kiko> (even if it is in the future)
<daf> carlos: we still need to create PO templates
<sabdfl> projects being.... rosetta, malone, or projects being the upstream domains?
<kiko> rosetta, malone and soyuz and foaf and doap and ... (you get the picture :)
* SteveA wonders about calling them "launchplatforms"
<sabdfl> but you are ok with an upstream project being able to create launchpad.upstream.org and have us handle that
* SteveA thinks he's being silly
<kiko> sabdfl, yes, definitely, that's perfect.
<sabdfl> the answer seems to be different for soyuz
<carlos> daf: true, is it a problem to create it if needed on update time?, a module could add a new domain so we will need to create a new template for an old product
<sabdfl> i mean, soyuz WANTS to have a distro context
<stub> sabdfl: It means that if someone jumps from launchpad.upstream.org to  launchpad.ubuntu.com, they will need to login a second time since the cookies cannot be shared cross domains.
<kiko> sabdfl, but soyuz links to rosetta and malone internally. and then?
<dilys> Bug 1949 resolved: first input field should be focused when translation page loads
<dilys> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1949
<SteveA> stub: the single-sign-on stuff can fix that easily enough.  it would be a couple of instant re-directs on going to the new site.
<sabdfl> stub: we do have a solution to that, i think
<sabdfl> nice work daf
<stub> sabdfl: It also complicates the issue of what URL to put in emails - launchpad.upsteam.org/malone/bug/65 or launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bug/65
<daf> sabdfl: the code will work for any form that uses tabindexes correctly
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> stub: good point
<daf> carlos: I'm not sure -- is there any extra information needed?
<stub> SteveA: Sucky because you have to use javascript redirects
<SteveA> stub: no, not javascript redirects
<stub> SteveA: Also doesn't scale if we end up with a few hundred virtual hosted launchpads.
<carlos> daf: don't think so, we could use names like "main-1, main-2, main-3...." and rename it later by hand and get them based on their path inside the source code
<SteveA> stub: don't see why not.  but, I think we're talking about different things.
<carlos> daf: or we could even try to get the domain name for that po directory
<SteveA> do we have a decision on what to do about choosing virtual hosts for the present?
<daf> carlos: hmm, that's a bit smelly
<daf> carlos: let's add a form for creating new templates, and use that
<carlos> daf: I know it's not perfect
<sabdfl> SteveA: lets discuss it, you and i, after this meeting
<SteveA> k
<SteveA> I'd like to move on to karma
<carlos> will you add by hand all templates we have in hoary/warty?
<SteveA> there was a discussion about karma yesterday
<carlos> that's a huge work load...
<SteveA> and adding this kind of thing to the database
<SteveA> how's that all going?
<sabdfl> carlos: we can't try to scale up rosetta till we can automate large amounts of it
<sabdfl> the arch guys have made some good progress with getting code syncing
<sabdfl> in december we can plan how to hook that automatically into rosetta
<sabdfl> so once an upstream is syncing to arch, we can easily add it to rosetta
<carlos> sabdfl: I have solved (more or less) the lack of arch archives
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> how?
<carlos> so that's not the problem
<carlos> with python-apt (or whatever it's called)
<sabdfl> que?
<carlos> and now, using soyuz data
<carlos> I get the information from where I can download the orig.tar.gz + diffs + .dsc 
<carlos> I download it and extract it
<carlos> and I'm ready to find the .po/.pot directories 
<carlos> and import them into rosetta
<SteveA> I'm hoping for an email to the list outlining the plan for karma stuff, as this will touch various parts of launchpad in due course.
<sabdfl> neat
<Kinnison> carlos: are you extracting those from the librarian?
<carlos> It needs to add the distribution archives by hand, but more or lees it's a help until we finish the arch part
<SteveA> Cookie auth should be working by tomorrow.  I'm not wholy sure how this will affect page tests, so for now, page tests will continue to use basic auth.
<SteveA> Any other things to discuss at this launchpad meeting? 
<carlos> Kinnison: not yet, in fact I'm starting moving from apt-get to soyuz
<SteveA> If not, let's finish.
<Kinnison> carlos: when you want to use the librarian; let me know
<carlos> Kinnison: is there any documentation about it? :-P
<Kinnison> SteveA: I just want to ask if elmo could open port 8000 up to the outside world for us?
<Kinnison> carlos: Not yet :-)
<sabdfl> spiv: whats the current position on having a status field on project / product?
<Kinnison> carlos: If I can gather some use-cases from you and the others; I could write some
<daf> SteveA: so cookie auth will work in addition to basic auth rather than replacing it?
<SteveA> daf: yes, at least for now
<Kinnison> SteveA: so soyuz can provide links directly to the librarian instead of having to act as a proxy to download from it
<carlos> Kinnison: ok
<daf> carlos: for now, I think you'll just have to probe Kinnison's brain
<Kinnison> mmmm cranial probage
<SteveA> Kinnison: can we do a proxy pass thing so that /downloads/... on the server is for the librarian?
<Kinnison> SteveA: yes; but then soyuz will have to manipulate the URLs it gets from the FileDownloadClient instance
<carlos> sabdfl: ouside the meeting scope, I have some questions about launchpad, I will give a speech tomorrow that will mention it and I'm not sure what should be said and what should not 
<SteveA> I expect it will have to do so anyway, in reality
<carlos> daf: :-)
<Kinnison> SteveA: in that case; it'd be fine to do it proxy_pass
<sabdfl> carlos: go ahead and make your own judgement
<SteveA> Kinnison: I think that's the kind of url we'd want to present to the outside world, rather than a port 8000 thing
<sabdfl> carlos: you can speak freely
<Kinnison> SteveA: ack.
<carlos> sabdfl: ok, and about the "prize" of it? I mean, I don't know if it will be free of charge for all people or only to the community, etc... 
<Kinnison> SteveA: Should I add a getURIForAlias() method then? To only return the URI
<Kinnison> SteveA: then soyuz can composite that with its url to form the full url for download
<carlos> there will be many people working on local distributions in Spain
<SteveA> Kinnison: you mean the path?
<sabdfl> rosetta, malone will be free of charge for any project to use
<Kinnison> SteveA: yes
<SteveA> getPathForAlias or getURLPathForAlias ?
<Kinnison> The former I think I prefer
* Kinnison will code that
<SteveA> k
<Kinnison> It'll be very short
<carlos> sabdfl: ok
<SteveA> and we can have a convention that it will always be /downloads/... on any virtual host
<SteveA> or /files/ or whatever you think is best
<Kinnison> that's up to the web-app guys :-)
<SteveA> wrapping up the meeting?  Same time next week -- wednesday 12:30 UTC ?
<sabdfl> ok
<carlos> SteveA: ok
<Kinnison> ack.
<daf> yep
<SteveA> thanks everyone.  I'll send a mail about the next meeting.
<daf> thanks, Steve
<carlos> daf: do we need to talk about anything urgent now?
<daf> carlos: we need to talk about the move, but it can wait for a few hours
<carlos> ok
<carlos> I need to have lunch and go out for a while
<carlos> as soon as I'm back I will ping you, ok?
<carlos> (I think that will be in about 2 hours or so)
<daf> ok
<Kinnison> Well; this patch to the librarian compiles
<Kinnison> (which is always a good start)
<carlos> ok, later
<Kinnison> >>> fdc = FileDownloadClient("launchpad.ubuntu.com", 8000)
<Kinnison> >>> fdc.getPathForAlias(1)
<Kinnison> '/1/1/3dchess_0.8.1-11.dsc'
<Kinnison> SteveA: would that do?
<Kinnison> SteveA: then the webapp can put 'https://....../download' on the front of that as appropriate and we can proxypass the result
<elmo> uh
<elmo> maybe I misunderstanding something, but you realise you're going to have to present a traditional archive layout too, right ?
<Kinnison> elmo: that's an entirely separate thing
<elmo> ok - what's this for then?
<SteveA> the webapp can just make the url an abs url as <a href="/downloads/1/1/3dchess_0.8.1-11.dsc">3dchess_0.8.1-11.dsc</a>
<elmo> 'cos serving up an archive via https makes me want to run into a wall
<Kinnison> elmo: this is to allow the soyuz webapp to generate urls to specific files in the librarian
<Kinnison> elmo: It is not a generic archive-exposing thing
<Kinnison> SteveA: yeah; that's do
<Kinnison> elmo: remember the librarian will also have build-logs and stuff in it
<SteveA> and, if the url scheme is https, then apache can perm redir to http same url under /downloads/
<SteveA> if we want to save https stuff.  hmm, I guess that involves the same set-up cost, though
<SteveA> do clients generally do pipelining of requests for https ?
<elmo> for stuff in an archive, shouldn't the webapp generate to the URL to the archive, not a librarian-specific URL ?
<stub> Why are we trying to munge the URL's the librarian is giving us? It should be returning the one  true URL for that file.
<Kinnison> stub: for dogfood we don't want to expose the librarian directly
<Kinnison> elmo: When we have a useful place to put the archive; then yes it should
<stub> Kinnison: Then the librarian should be returning the correct URL rather than localhost:8080 or some port that is internal only
<daf> Kinnison: it should expose itself to the public?
<elmo> we don't want to expose the librarian URLs period, IMO
* Kinnison has no strong preference either way
<daf> oh, a prudish librarian
<Kinnison> I was just supplying a solution as asked :-)
<Kinnison> SteveA: dunno; but they can do session-restart to save the asymmetric crypto
<Kinnison> Should I commit this patch or not then?
<daf> SteveA: https://wiki.canonical.com/RosettaToDogfood
* kiko-fud needs to run off
<SteveA> daf: write the main template layer first
<SteveA> that way the code is ready
<SteveA> and you just need to get the data transfered
<SteveA> it shouldn't be "write a layer that overrides the main template", but "override the main template for the rosetta layer"
<daf> hmm
<daf> don't we want the layer only to be used by testers?
<SteveA> do it for the whole of rosetta now
<SteveA> when we have the context code done (fairly soon), we'll be able to be more selective
<daf> context?
<daf> what's "context" in this context?
<SteveA> object that allows you to see what applicaiton, package, product, whatever you're in
<SteveA> and allows you to get an appropriate URL to present for a given object
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Add getPathForAlias to librarian client (patch-758)
<Kinnison> thanks babe.
<sabdfl> dilys rocks
<Kinnison> She's certainly very handy
<Kinnison> sabdfl: What's your favourite backup media format?
<sabdfl> why?
<Kinnison> Trying to choose a backup method for ca. 200 gigs of data
<Kinnison> (for home)
<Kinnison> I can't choose between tape or disk for a start
<Kinnison> I figured since I remembered some mumbling about your backups at home you might have a preference :-)
* ddaa grumbles..
<ddaa> The Warty python does not seem to have the guts to get a traceback out of gdb...
* ddaa looks for python 2.4 in hoary
* ddaa wonders where to look for hoary
!lilo:*! Reminder, if you're in the US and you want to attend the second day of the FTC's email authentication summit by phone, it's in progress and the conference info is here: http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/workshops/e-authentication/ .... and please stop by ##ftc-summit (note two #'s).... thanks!
<sabdfl> Kinnison: a second hard drive :-)
<Kinnison> sabdfl: feh; I already have RAID-1 going on :-)
* Kinnison was just being taken-aback at the cost of tape hardware
<Kinnison> sabdfl: Will the timings i put in that mail be okay for next wednesday?
<sabdfl> yup
<ddaa> Mh... python 2.4 does not seem to be in hoary yet...
<Kinnison> sabdfl: excellent
<sabdfl> daf, carlos, is the alpha testing system supposed to be giving errors all over the show?
<Kinnison> rehi debonzi 
<debonzi> Kinnison, yo
<cprov> spiv: librarian works w/ sqlo--0.6, thanks
<cprov> Kinnison: do you have any dump of dogfood db ? those stored in mawson look a bit strange, they have binary code inside or were corrupted .. am I missing something about dumps ?
<Kinnison> cprov: erm; you want a dump of the dogfood db? just make one yourself. (you have sudo right?)
<Kinnison> cprov: sudo -u launchpad pg_dump launchpad_dogfood | bzip2 -c > ~/lp-dump.bz2
<stub> The nightly dumps are in pg_dump's custom format, which can be used by pg_restore to reload. Lets you do partial loads and reordering load order and stuff (because pg_dump is TOO STUPID to get the dump order correct).
<Kinnison> yeah
<Kinnison> I guess
* stub goes to bed before he gets grumpier
<Kinnison> nighty stub
<stub> Have to work on these late nights - I've started ranting on mailing lists. Never a good sign ;)
<cprov> stub: thanks, I'll try this on with pg_restore
<sabdfl> stub: i'd NEVER be  one to suggest beauty sleep
<sabdfl> however, you shouldn't have accepted that patch from me without comments
<sabdfl> will commit a comments fragment now
* BradB wonders if there's a pgsql option that prevents adding db objects without comments
<BradB> meta constraints, as it were
<Kinnison> we'd get piles of crap comments if we enforced that
<BradB> Kinnison: which would mean piles of scolding email, i guess :P
<Kinnison> hehe
<Kinnison> seems easier to persuade stub to not accept poorly commented patches
<BradB> SteveA: ping
<BradB> Anyone know offhand if the test runner is smart enough to treat .txt files as documentation/test code (i.e. doctests :)?
<BradB> I want to test code in dir foo/, and so I want demonstration in foo/README.txt to get run as doc tests.
<BradB> s/demonstration/demonstration code/
<carlos> sabdfl: no, I saw it this morning but I don't understand why it does it if the code is not changing nor the database... daf is looking at it already
<sabdfl> ok
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: bring bounty tests on stream (patch-759)
<SteveA> BradB|lunch: no, it isn't.  you have to explicitly say in a test_something.py module that a particular text file is a test.  There is a test_pages.py module that does that for all .txt files in canonical/launchpad/pagetests/
<SteveA> I wouldn't like to have just any .txt file treated as a test
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Rosetta functional tests disabled, they were not working and we should improve them (patch-760)
<kiko-afk> BradB|lunch, question for you in bug 2167.
<BradB> SteveA: I want to test that my changes to the PersonVocabulary work. I started writing this as doctest, then realized I sort of need the zope machinery running (e.g. to register an IZopeDatabaseAdapter) to test this. How would you recommend I write a simple test like that? (I could shoehorn it as a page test, but it's nothing near a functional test; all I'm testing is that PersonVocabulary returns the terms I expect.)
<BradB> kiko-afk: ?
<kiko-afk> yes BradB?
<BradB> 	<kiko-afk>	BradB|lunch, question for you in bug 2167.
<kiko-afk> BradB, right, there's a question -- two actually -- for you, in bug 2167. 
<kiko-afk> :)
<BradB> heh
<BradB> ok, /me reads
<SteveA> BradB: why do you need to register an IZopeDatabaseAdapter?  Can't you just register an IPeople or IPersons utility?
<SteveA> that's half the point of using utilities here -- to make this kind of test more straightforward
<BradB> SteveA: It's a vocab that hits the DB.
<BradB> SteveA: this test is only effective if it proves that noone broke the change i made to only return people who have passwords
<SteveA> if the vocab were to use IPersonSet...
<SteveA> then you'd just need to test that it uses the correct IPersonSet api
<BradB> yeah
<SteveA> otherwise, you need to write a functional test
<SteveA> to live in .../ftests
<BradB> darn
<BradB> oh well
<SteveA> daf: can you add time estimates to here https://wiki.canonical.com/RosettaToDogfood   or link to malone bugs, if there are any ?
<daf> sure
<SteveA> thank you
<daf> carlos: what's the ETA on that SQL script?
<carlos> work in progress
<daf> estimated time?
<carlos> phone
<daf> >>> int("phone")
<daf> ValueError: invalid literal for int(): phone
<carlos> :-P
<carlos> daf: I think it will take about 1:30
<carlos> ideally, only one hour
<daf> ok
<daf> thanks
<BradB> kiko-afk: i replied. that should give you enough to get started, i think.
<carlos> daf: we only have 4 people doing alphatesting...
<carlos> the others don't have selected a language...
<daf> carlos: hmm, that explains why everyone has been quiet
<carlos>  Philipp von Weitershausen, Dwayne Bailey, Dinu Gherman and Denis Jacquerye
<carlos> ok, my friends suck a lot :-(
<carlos> none tested it
<daf> heh
<SteveA> did you mail godefroid?
<daf> I ahven't
<daf> I have two people to add to the testers
<daf> I'm now planning to add them after we make the move
<SteveA> godefroid was keen to have a look.  it is good to respond promptly to keen people
<SteveA> otherwise their keenness tends to evaporate
<daf> true
<sabdfl> daf: how difficult is it to get a new POT and set of PO files into rosetta?
<daf> sabdfl: not very
<sabdfl> can it be user driven at this stage?
<daf> no
<sabdfl> hmmm.... 
<daf> that would be useful
<daf> the current model is "you ask for a project and the admins create it for you"
<sabdfl> how long does it take you to do it currently?
<sabdfl> how many projects have been asked for?
<daf> perhaps we should move towards a "you can do it and the admins will fix it if you mess it up"
<daf> nobody has explicitly asked for projects
* daf -> food
<sabdfl> right, then let's stick with that till it becomes too much of a bottleneck
<SteveA> is zope3 in there yet?
<SteveA> I asked for that
<SteveA> is plone in there yet?
<sabdfl> in where?
<SteveA> in rosetta
<SteveA> in the alpha
<SteveA> in reply to "nobody has explicitly asked for projects"
<sabdfl> ah, right
<sabdfl> ok, how do i jump to the *next* matching tag
<sabdfl> ctrl-} gets me to the first
<sabdfl> but that's not the one I want
<sabdfl> ] 
<sabdfl> sorry
<sabdfl> i want another one
<sabdfl> how do I get the next one?
<SteveA> I just use tjump, and select from there
<SteveA> I've never needed anything more fancy for long enough to find out how
<sabdfl> tjump?
<SteveA>  while on a tag, :tjump
<spiv> sabdfl: :ts  (for tag select)
<sabdfl> thanks guys
<sabdfl> spiv: is there such a thing as an IntervalCol?
<sabdfl> DateTimeCol *sort of* works
<sabdfl> if you don't push it
<spiv> Hmm, I think I had some work on this somewhere.
<spiv> Ah, it's already integrated.
<spiv> sabdfl: Sadly, no, although it would be nice to fix it.
<sabdfl> so using DateTimeCol and restricting it to days hours minutes seconds works best?
<sabdfl> oh bugger that doesn't work either
<sabdfl> unless you also limit it to a value less than one month
<sabdfl> because as soon as the interval is greater than one month, datetimecol freaks out
<carlos> spiv: I'm having some problems using initZopeless from an script
<carlos> spiv: It's does all work but it's never committed to the database
<carlos> spiv: If I don't use begin/commit explicity I get:
<carlos> /home/carlos/Work/launchpad/lib/canonical/database/sqlbase.py:85: UserWarning: Something tried to set a _connection.  Ignored.
<carlos>   warnings.warn("Something tried to set a _connection.  Ignored.")
<spiv> carlos: Are you calling .commit on the transaction manager?
<carlos> and if I add the begin/commit I get an error
<carlos> same warning and then:
<carlos> Traceback (most recent call last):
<carlos>   File "./import_users.py", line 168, in ?
<carlos>     ztm.commit()
<carlos>   File "/home/carlos/Work/dists/launchpad/lib/canonical/database/sqlbase.py", line 214, in commit
<carlos>     self.manager.get().commit(sub)
<carlos>   File "/home/carlos/Work/dists/launchpad/sourcecode/zope/src/transaction/_transaction.py", line 293, in commit
<spiv> I should probably turn that warning off, it never seems to be a real problem.
<carlos>     self._commitResources(subtransaction)
<carlos>   File "/home/carlos/Work/dists/launchpad/sourcecode/zope/src/transaction/_transaction.py", line 340, in _commitResources
<carlos>     rm.tpc_vote(self)
<carlos>   File "/home/carlos/Work/dists/launchpad/sourcecode/zope/src/transaction/_transaction.py", line 629, in tpc_vote
<carlos>     self._datamanager.prepare(transaction)
<carlos>   File "/home/carlos/Work/dists/launchpad/lib/sqlos/transaction/__init__.py", line 146, in prepare
<carlos>     raise TypeError('Already prepared')
<carlos> TypeError: Already prepared
<spiv> Oh!
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: still doing soyuz/people improve and preparing for debonzi's soyuz cleanup (patch-761)
<spiv> Can I look at the script, please? :)
<carlos> sure
<spiv> I tried to pin down this problem for lifeless earlier, but it disappeared before I could.
<spiv> And I can't figure out how to reproduce it intentionally :0
<carlos> sent by mail
<sabdfl> spiv: who does psycopgda?
<carlos> daf: the script is ready
<spiv> sabdfl: I'm not sure.  It lives in Zope's repo somewhere, I think.
<carlos> but with the problem I'm asking spiv
<spiv> carlos: Great, thank you :)
<carlos> spiv: another thing I was not able to do is use lanchpad_dev directly without using the external env var: LP_DBNAME=launchpad_dev 
<daf> carlos: ok, cool
<carlos> the dbname='launchpad_dev' seems like it's ignored
<carlos> daf: and just in time :-) 1:30 minutes
<daf> carlos: I suppose we need to send it to whoever's maintaining the dogfood server
<carlos> daf: you don't have access to the database?
<carlos> hmm
<carlos> ok
<daf> carlos: care to update the wiki?
<carlos> makes sense
<carlos> forget that
<daf> carlos: I'm not sure
<carlos> :-)
<sabdfl> spiv: ok, the bug appears to be in psycopgda.adapter
<carlos> daf: will do it now, I will commit the script also inside rosetta/scripts is that ok for you?
<daf> carlos: I'm not sure
<sabdfl> line 195
<daf> carlos: if it's a general script, sure
<carlos> not really
<carlos> it has the data inside the script
<carlos> it's specific for this task
<sabdfl> who can i get to commit a fix there?
* BradB finds out the hard way that eliding just a <BLANKLINE> causes the test to fail, thinking there are differences.
<carlos> I will send you it by mail now so you can review it
<carlos> spiv: do you need me in the next 30 minutes?
<sabdfl> bradb: banged my head on that one too
<BradB> heh
* carlos wants to go to have dinner
<spiv> carlos: Don't think so.
<carlos> spiv: ok, thanks
<daf> BradB: I think I might have filed a bug on that
<sabdfl> spiv: is there a way to get postgres to report a month as "month" instead of "mon"?
<sabdfl> psycopgda is expecting "month" or "months" from the interval, and postgres is delivering "mon" or "mons"
<sabdfl> why, i don't know
<sabdfl> everything else is sane: day(s), week(s), mon(s), year(s)
<daf> making it mon(th)(s) would fix it
<dilys> Bug 2159 resolved: Remove soyuz/projects
<dilys> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=2159
<spiv> sabdfl: maybe it can be changed with "set datestyle", I'm looking at the docs now.
<carlos> daf: I have a question inside the script about what should we do if the user already exists, should we change the password or leave it as it's now?
<carlos> daf: sent by mail
<carlos> grrrr
<dilys> Bug 2074 resolved: Create the Postgresql Views for Soyuz App
<dilys> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=2074
<carlos> I should stop using Jabber
<daf> carlos: print a warning and do nothng, I think
<dilys> Bug 2090 resolved: Add Brad's nickname.py lib and CreatePerson() method to FOAF
<dilys> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=2090
<carlos> ok
<carlos> will fix it and update the wiki after dinner
<carlos> later
<daf> later
<daf> carlos: you can probably remove Limi also
<carlos> ok
<daf> other than that, it looks good
<spiv> sabdfl: I can't seem to find a setting to change that :/
<sabdfl> ok, so it's a bug
<sabdfl> works fine for me if i change the code
<sabdfl> but i cant commit to psycopgda
<daf> I think we should fix it locally and send a patch upstream
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Big soyuz clean up and organization. Everything seems to be very cleaner now. (patch-762)
* debonzi -> dinner
<cprov> night all
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: temp fix for the person vocab, reducing the people returned to only those that can login (i.e. have passwords) (patch-763)
<carlos> ok, I'm back
<daf> carlos: great
<daf> carlos: I'm going to leave soon to give a talk
<carlos> daf: I'm going to leave soon to sleep
<carlos> I should wake up in less than 6 hours to drive to Madrid...
<carlos> ok, good night
<daf> night
<carlos> daf: If you need anything from me next days, just send me an email and I will try to be online as soon as possible
<daf> carlos: sure
<carlos> night!
#launchpad 2005-11-21
<bradb> I don't think a normal human being would differentiate U/C/A. But U/C/IP could be worthwhile
<mpt> yeah
* LarstiQ chalks himself down as not normal
<mpt> whichever is done, it's wrong for someone else to be able to mark a bug as Accepted when it's assigned to me
<mpt> because I might think the bug is complete crack
<mpt> or something I don't know how to fix
<bradb> yeah. LP doesn't really have workflows, ATM. at least not enforced programatically
<mpt> LarstiQ, well, you and I understand it, but many don't, apparently including one or two of my managers :-)
<mpt> bradb, would you be happy with "Being Fixed" instead of "In Progress"? (In Progress is possibly a little too similar to PendingUpload)
<bradb> Being Fixed is even better
<mpt> ok, cool
<mpt> In other news, bradb, we seem to be getting a mountain of duplicate bug reports
<mpt> from which I conclude that priority #2 is making searching work better :-)
<bradb> our search is not very useful, sadly, but I don't think it's been a priority yet for stub to look into ispell integration and such. We're working on it though. For example, we added sourcepackage name to the bug searching during UBZ, but it doesn't appear to have been rolled out yet.
<bradb> but yes, i'd fully agree on it being priority #2.
* bradb has to leave now, later all
<mpt> 'night
<mpt> jordi, you may want to subscribe to bug 3954
<Ubugtu`> Malone bug #3954: Tamazigh needs adding to Rosetta Fix req. for: rosetta (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/3954
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> brown.freenode.net
<SteveA> good morning!
<jblack> HI!
<SteveA> ddaa: good morning
<ddaa> Hello SteveA
<carlos> morning
<SteveA> hi carlos
<SteveA> oh, carlos, i had a question for you
<carlos> SteveA, tell me
* SteveA looks up email
<SteveA> carlos: okay, i have just forwarded you a mail that was on the schooltool mailing list, but also kind of a debian debbugs mail
<carlos> ok
<SteveA> there is a complaint about rosetta there which i think has been addressed
<SteveA> so, i want to check what a proper reply to that is, and then to make the reply, so that the record is set straight
<carlos> SteveA, ok, it was a side effect of our old codebase when we showed all those fr_FR, es_ES, etc... locales by default
<carlos> Mark said that we should not expend time implementing a way to merge .po files
<carlos> so the old ones remain there
<carlos> but it's not easy to create new ones
<SteveA> to create new translations in fr_FR you mean?
<carlos> right
<SteveA> okay.  so, what should the schooltool people do given the current situation?
<carlos> ask for a merge of the fr_FR into fr by a French translator
<carlos> downloading the .po file and uploading the merged one into the fr locale
<carlos> and then ping me so I ask stub to remove that POFile from the database
<carlos> it's the only way to fix it
<SteveA> hmm... i can't describe that so well in an email.  so, i'll ask them to come here and talk with you about it.
<carlos> of course, they should remove the fr_FR.po from the release
<carlos> or Rosetta will add it again
<carlos> SteveA, ok
<SteveA> https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/fileiifGVM.html
<SteveA> carlos: does that read correctly?
<carlos> SteveA, "so translators are not offered these language variants..." I think it implies that there is no way to create them anymore
<carlos> and that's not true, if someone wants to do that, it's still possible
<SteveA> ok
<carlos> but you are not "invited" to do it, you should request it being explicit (uploading a fr_FR.po file or typing the URL by hand)
<SteveA> okay
<ddaa> SteveA: what is the recommended format for epydoc entries in launchpad docstrings? ReST or epydoc syntax? (or something else?)
<SteveA> ddaa: i have no specific recommendation, because i don't use that style.  i can look into it and form an opinion if this is blocking you.
<SteveA> carlos: sent the mail.
<ddaa> I use ReST format generally, as it's the more likely to become "standard" in the future.
<carlos> SteveA, ok, thanks
<SteveA> jinty: hi.  you just missed carlos and me talking about how the schooltool po files / country-specific-language-variant translations can be fixed up in rosetta
<SteveA> ddaa: can you get me URLs with examples of each of the alternatives?
<SteveA> or examples in Kinnison's pastebin?
<ddaa> SteveA: http://epydoc.sourceforge.net/fields.html
<carlos> stub, hi, could you give me a patch number for the DB patch you reviewed yesterday? (The TranslationUploads branch)
<stub> eh? oh. patch-40-04-0.sql
<carlos> stub, thanks
<SteveA> ddaa: i like this best: http://epydoc.sourceforge.net/fields.html#rst
<ddaa> I do not like it because it does not allow putting types and descriptions side by side.
<ddaa> When  i want to put types and descriptions or params I usually write:
<SteveA> ddaa: what do you prefer?
<ddaa> :param foo: The foo to froboize.
<ddaa> :type foo: `IFoo`
<ddaa> :param bar: The bar to have beer at.
<ddaa> :return: Froboized foo with a pint.
<ddaa> It's reasonably efficient in vertical space.
<SteveA> hmm...
<SteveA> why is it so important to have a separate :type: line for arguments, but not for the return value?
<ddaa> There's :rtype: as well
<ddaa> it's just that sometimes I give only a description, and sometimes only a type, sometimes both, sometimes none.
<SteveA> okay.
<SteveA> so, i can say this: if you want to use a structured docstring, use one of the rst formats, and not the javadoc or epytext format
<ddaa> perfectly happy with that.
<carlos> is there anyway to execute just one pagetest that uses librarian? ./test.py --test=... does not work
<ddaa> I suggest "./test.py -v . name_of_the_test"
<ddaa> the little dot in the middle is important
<ddaa> where name is the filename for a doctest/pagetest or the method name for a unitttest
<carlos> ddaa, will that execute librarian?
<ddaa> mh...
<ddaa> nah, don't think so... would have to start it by hand...
<carlos> ok
* ddaa -> lunch
<matsubara> good morning!
<cprov> good morning hackers
<Nafallo> morning :-)
<niemeyer> Morning Celso
<niemeyer> cprov: I'd like to setup the build system here as we discussed at UBZ.. would you be able to talk about it today?
<cprov> niemeyer: hi niemeyer, sure ... join ##soyuz 
<cprov> niemeyer: I mean, when you have time.
<niemeyer> cprov: I'm there :)
<niemeyer> Alone.. :(
<niemeyer> ;)
<cprov> niemeyer: he, it wasn't a typo, double hash .
<niemeyer> cprov: I'm there, really
<cprov> niemeyer: sorry, ##soyuz1.0, which is totally out of context, whatever 
<niemeyer> np :)
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> brown.freenode.net
<ddaa> Hey niemeyer
<niemeyer> Hiho
<niemeyer> What's up?
<niemeyer> :)
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> brown.freenode.net
<ddaa> niemeyer: I've done lifeless' part of the review comments
<ddaa> I've delayed doing yours until you could tell me whether I can expect it from you today.
<niemeyer> ddaa: Yes, you may expect it for today
<niemeyer> ddaa: What's the lifeless part that you've done?
<ddaa> The "Robert blamed" bit. See new message in the launchpad-reviews mailing list.
<Kinnison> SteveA: sorry, I felt so bad this morning I slept in 'til now
<Kinnison> SteveA: I still have a sore throat but at least my head isn't spinning
<SteveA> hello Kinnison 
<LarstiQ> Kinnison: too much whooping yesterday?
<Kinnison> LarstiQ: not quite :-)
<SteveA> launchpad developers: make sure you're subscribed to https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/LaunchpadHackingFAQ
<SteveA> ddaa: i added a note about docstrings to https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/LaunchpadHackingFAQ
<ddaa> Thanks.
<niemeyer> ddaa: Have you changed your branch (.../launchpad/branches) in any strange way?
<ddaa> not that I'm aware of
<niemeyer> ddaa: I did a pull and bzr removed *everything*
<ddaa> mh
* ddaa checks
<ddaa> You mean /home/warthogs/archives/david/launchpad/branches right?
<niemeyer> Yes
<niemeyer> bzr status shows a remove list with the whole launchpad.. :)
<niemeyer> I'm updating bzr, and will try again
<niemeyer> If it doesn't work, I'll have to resync everything.
<ddaa> It looks sane on chinstrap, waiting for bzr status there
<mhz> ji ther
<mhz> hi
<mhz> there
<mhz> :)
<niemeyer> ddaa: Yes, it looks fine indeed
<niemeyer> ddaa: Which is even worse.. :(
<mhz> Any chances LaunchPad assigns Karma for IRC and Wiki contributions?
<mhz> and also for Talks and Evangelisation?
* niemeyer will have lunch and brb
<carlos> mhz, how would we track that?
<mhz> carlos: no idea yet.
* mhz is not a developer
* mhz is an edubuntu evangeliser only
<mhz> :)
<carlos> mhz, the only way to track those contributions is manually....
<mhz> maybe manually
<mhz> hehehe
<mhz> indeed
<mhz> carlos: hablas castellano?
<carlos> mhz, si
<mhz> que bueno!
<mhz> where are u from?
<carlos> mhz, Spain
<carlos> and you?
<mhz> Spain is probably THE largest spanish speakers voice for free as in freedom community 
<mhz> Chile
<carlos> and the number country with the highest number of Debian based distributions in the world.... :-(
<carlos> s/number country/country/
<mhz> why sad?
<carlos> mhz, we should not create that amount of distributions but contribute each other to improve a common base. At least now seems like some of them are moving to use Ubuntu as their base without forking it
<mhz> carlos: really? to ubuntu? cool
<mhz> I have been so much into the project that I loose outside perception
<mhz> :)
<mhz> AFAIK, ubuntu is a good base
<mhz> so is Knoppix :D
<mhz> morphix was close
<mhz> IMHO, Ubuntu will become what RedHat meant to be (rpm's though) and Debian couldn't (not a company)
<mhz> carlos: re-Karma/ so? how can it be manually?
<carlos> mhz, no atm
<carlos> mhz, we would need to figure a way to do it
<mhz> carlos: do you understand why I ask?
<carlos> mhz, please, file a bug against launchpad with that suggestion
<mhz> ok
<carlos> mhz, yeah, I understand your concerns as the karma is being used as a way to know your Ubuntu contributions
<mhz> carlos: is there a 'why we use karma' doc or definition?
<mhz> maybe karma is meant for 'developers' (code stuff)
<carlos> mhz, we have a document that describes a bit how it's implemented
<mhz> ok
<mhz> thx
<carlos> mhz, you get it translating or working with bug reports
<carlos> so it's not a developer 'thing'
<carlos> everyone can get it
<mhz> ok, cool then
<mhz> deserves a bug
<mhz> deserves a bug filing
<carlos> mhz, thanks
<mhz> np
<mhz> thank you all for LP
<mhz> LP + Moin would rock!
<JaneW> mhz: you always manage to get a punt in for moin :P
<mhz> hehehehe
<mhz> that's the idea
<mhz> yesterday I was ina 3 hour meeting and I must have mentioned edubuntu at least 30 times
* JaneW gives mhz a virtual gold star (tm)
<mhz> JaneW: the thing is that I tried trac once (very cool wiki + devel tools) and I noticed Moin was cooler. So now I see LP + Moin like a pretty cool idea
<mhz> JaneW: hehehe
<ddaa> This bzr transition puts me in a funny situation wrt to pybaz...
<SteveA> ddaa: have many users been in contact about it?
<ddaa> hard to tell... I have the impression that only a few intrepid devels ever used it, most of them are now on bzr...
<ddaa> but I was sometimes surprised
<SteveA> i know... put a release out there with obvious errors in the packaging, and see how many complain ;-)
<LarstiQ> that works :)
<ddaa> I have not put a release out in ages
<LarstiQ> mhz_cooking: the wiki in trac is Moin based
<ddaa> my release management sucks too much for that, people just get it from the baz archive
<LarstiQ> cripple the baz archive? ;)
<ddaa> I'll just do something horribly crippled and wrong for mirroring, so I get proper verbosity. Instead of added the right feature to pybaz.
<SteveA> convert the baz archive of pybaz to bzr...
<ddaa> * instead of adding
<ddaa> SteveA: that sort of defeats the point of pybaz...
<ddaa> well... I guess that would be a way of putting out a statement as well...
<SteveA> maybe throw an email at mpool and lifeless and see what they suggest
<ddaa> would be faster for me just to code the feature I need... on a bzr hosted branch.
<ddaa> If anybody appear to care about pybaz in the future, I'll think about backporting.
<ddaa> Thanks for talking. That helped me take a decision.
<mhz> LarstiQ: yup, indeed
<mhz> hence I say Moin+LP is cooler
<mhz> .oO(my non english-thinking plays tricks on me, usually)
<ddaa> SteveA: please review sftp://chinstrap/home/warthogs/archives/david/pybaz/iter_mirror ASAP
<SteveA> ddaa: is it on the pending reviews page?
<ddaa> just added :)
<LarstiQ> mhz: I do miss some trac features in lp atm
<mhz> which ones?
* mhz still does not use LP so much
<ddaa> LarstiQ: if you say "subversion integration" I'll go nasy ;)
<mhz> nasy?
<Nafallo> lol
<ddaa> hu... "nasty"
<mhz> oh, ok
<LarstiQ> ddaa: no, afaics the timeline and source view
<ddaa> mh... tell me more about the source view
<ddaa> that might be part of the stuff I'm responsible for.
<LarstiQ> ddaa: http://wiki.powerdns.com/projects/trac/browser/trunk/pdns/
<ddaa> do you use the changeset view much?
<ddaa> got to say that trac viewsource is quite nice, compared to the usual viewsvn nonsense
<LarstiQ> ddaa: frequently enough, yes
<ddaa> Would be a great feature to have in launchpad for bzr branches.
<ddaa> (AND rcs imports!)
<ddaa> look like a lot of work though.
<LarstiQ> the timeline bit might already be solved
<ddaa> What's the timeline thing?
<LarstiQ> looks like the Moin recentchanges, for wiki edits/bug changes/changesets
<LarstiQ> http://wiki.powerdns.com/projects/trac/timeline
<LarstiQ> and it has an rss feed ;)
<ddaa> mhhh
<LarstiQ> malone has this for bugs via mail at least
<LarstiQ> so it's mostly an integration question?
<ddaa> not sure how that would work with a few dozen random community branches registered for a product... you'd probably not want community branches in the timeline.
<ddaa> Maybe only branches associated to a series.
<mhz> LarstiQ: http://projects.edgewall.com/trac/wiki/TracOnUbuntu
<mhz> had you seen it?
<ddaa> Wel... except for the linking to the viewsource, it looks like it would be reasonably easy to implement.
<ddaa> well... once the branch migration to bzr is done, that is...
<LarstiQ> ddaa: I'm mainly looking at it from my project point of view, our own trac is now nicer than lp
<ddaa> Of course.
<LarstiQ> mhz: that doesn't look that special?
<LarstiQ> mhz: trac+bzr is more interesting for me :)
<mhz> i know it is not special. it's good they are taking care of it (packaging it)
<mhz> I know moin is packaged but not trac
<ddaa> LarstiQ: It's not clear who should take time from other objectives to implement that feature. It will probably not be implemented unless your file a bug and talk sabdfl into it. Should not be difficult though.
<LarstiQ> trac has been packaged for a loooong time
<mhz> trac+bzr? excellent. I have heard a lot about bzr but nevere tasted it yet, only sbv.
<ddaa> For bzr integration, it's going to take some time, if only because bzr integration is quite embryonic and I have a larg data migration (from baz) task in my pipe.
<mhz> subversion, I meant
<ddaa> That would be quite a shiny feature to have.
* LarstiQ trots off for training
<bradb> BjornT_: replied to X-Malone-Bug review
<niemeyer> ddaa: Ouch.. you've sent bzrsync.py to the revision "as-is"..
<niemeyer> ddaa: Including a print in the constructor. 8)
<slomo> hi... is it possible to get the po files from rosetta with name and email adress and copyright of the author filled in?
<ddaa> well, as far as your code works, I'm happy with it, it's the reviewer job to be picky about things like that ;)
<bradb> BjornT_: ping
<niemeyer> ddaa: Considering that you introduced the prints in the first place, I'm not surprised that you're happy with it. :)
<niemeyer> ddaa: But using print inside a constructor is.. erm.. awful. :)
<ddaa> Sounds a bit sloppy indeed.
* ddaa -> dishes
<niemeyer> SteveA: I'm not subscribed to launchpad-reviews, and the subscription seems to be moderated. Would you be able to approve it, please?
<mpt> Does anyone know when the import of Ubuntu packages into Launchpad is happening?
<bradb> BjornT_: ping
<cprov> mpt: not really, it depends of the gina results in staging ... lot of timeouts atm.
<SteveA> niemeyer: sure
<SteveA> niemeyer: nope, i can't.  i think kiko is the manager of that list
<niemeyer> SteveA: Ok, thanks for trying it
<ddaa> jblack: ping
<SteveA> ddaa: reviewing the pybaz code now
<jblack> pong
<ddaa> jblack: I've been reading CreatingBranchesOnSupermirror
<ddaa> the spec says that autocreated branches should not be displayed in launchpad until title and description have been set.
<ddaa> is that still what is intended?
<niemeyer> ddaa: That was not the idea when we talked about it in UBZ
<ddaa> niemeyer: that's why I'm asking, there's apparently a discrepancy.
* jblack gives niemeyer an odd look
<jblack> ddaa: Publically displayed, you mean? 
<ddaa> yes
* niemeyer runs scared
<niemeyer> :)
<jblack> I think that there should be two options. A user level option to set a default, for which the default is to hide new branches.
<jblack> That way, the branches list for someone doesn't get spammed up with throwaway branches.
<ddaa> Mh... I see the motivation...
<jblack> The question comes down whether the saner default is marking stuff thats good to talk about, or marking stuff that's not.
<jblack> I expect that with the way that its trivial and encouraged to branch early and often, there will be a lot more stuff that's not pertinant enough to list.
<jblack> Also, it prevents a problem with people pushing 30 branches and having a list of 30 things that say "undescribed branch in the some_branch" dir.
<ddaa> My gut feeling is to rather display everything up front and then think about way to automatically show what is still relevent...
<ddaa> jblack: that's not how I would make them appear.
<jblack> We may be desynced. I'm thinking about pushsftp branches. are you thinking about import branches? 
<ddaa> I'm just thinking that non-described branches could be listed, but less prominently (smaller font), with no rude nagging text and an obvious link to edit the description.
<ddaa> jblack: we're talking about pushftp.
<ddaa> Import branches are all important.
<ddaa> Ideally, we could guess a likely landing target and put the merged branches away once they are merged.
<ddaa> (and if they have no description)
<jblack> I suppose with good seperation hiding isn't strictly necessary.
<ddaa> Let's clarify assumptions:
<jblack> But imagine looking at Aaron's page. He could easily have hundreds of branches a year from now, of which ony 10 may still be pertinant.
<jblack> Sure. 
<ddaa> I think it would be very sexy to have stuff publicly visible once pushed. It can give a nice "here's what is going on in the bazaar" view of a product.
<jblack> Ok. That's a fair reasoning.
<ddaa> to get there we cannot expect people to go out of their way and put descriptions. I expect that 95% of branches will have no description. Just because people do not care.
<jblack> Exactly.
<jblack> And for me personally, that would reduce the value of the 5% that were described. I would be less likely to look at somebody's branch page, knowing that 95% of that cruft is unidentifiable stuff.
<jblack> To be clear, I'm not arguing a community consensus. That's strictly my own opinion.
<ddaa> Sure. But I think it's reasonable to assume that, for a given person, described branches are likely the few important ones.
<ddaa> Your opinion is important.
<ddaa> But thanks for clarifying.
<jblack> But no, its not a requirement.
<ddaa> I'd like to get something real simple and with as few restrictions as possible at first, and get the bzr folks to use it.
<jblack> Its a preference issue
<ddaa> Then we can have real user feedback.
<niemeyer> jblack: Wouldn't you like to know that there's a branch of bzr called bzr.wowfeature by mpool?
<jblack> I would like to make a more general point.
<ddaa> however, the way branches are currently listed is almost certainly not right.
<mdz> carlos: around?
<SteveA> ddaa: you're approved
<carlos> mdz, yes
<jblack> niemeyer: Not if he hadn't cared about it enough to approve it, no.
<ddaa> SteveA: come on, you can do better than that!
<carlos> mdz, hi
<jblack> wowfeature could not be complete, or could have been a half-baked idea he abandoned.
<ddaa> SteveA: maybe I should put some pep8 violations in to make it more interesting? ;)
<niemeyer> jblack: He may have approved, but just not cared to get into launchpad and put title/description.
<SteveA> ddaa: i made comments
<ddaa> ha :)
<jblack> If martin meant for wowfeature to be known about by the public, he'd describe why it gets a name like "wowfeature"
<ddaa> SteveA: thanks
<niemeyer> jblack: He may do that in the mailing list, rather than in launchpad..
<jblack> When I say hide, I mean from browsing, not from direct access.
<niemeyer> jblack: I understood what you meant.. and I'm just saying that if we give users the chance to create branches without providing title/description like we're doing, most users will not care to get into launchpad just to give it a title and description.
<niemeyer> jblack: Even though these branches are interesting for other peopl
<niemeyer> e
<ddaa> Here's an idea...
<jblack> niemeyer: Sure. 
<ddaa> A person's branch listing should prominently show the 5 branches that had commits most recently, regardless of the presence of a description.
<jblack> But if it displayed undescribed branches by default, if it wren't done well, I probably wouldn't go browsing for branches at launchpad unless I had to.
<jblack> The signal-to-noise ratio would be too low for me to have personal use for it.
<ddaa> Described branches that are neither MERGED or ABANDONED would be displayed as well, regardless of freshness.
<jblack> Yeah, if you have FRESHNESS, thats useful to me.
<jblack> automatically hide anything either not FRESH or not described, and I'd be a happy camper indeed
<niemeyer> ddaa: Tests for bzrsync are exploding because I'm using getUtility without first calling execute_zcml_for_scripts().
<ddaa> Then the less-active and non-described branches could be on a "show other branches" page.
<niemeyer> ddaa: Any standard way to fix it?
<jblack> ddaa: Sure, with checkboxes to hide/show undescribed, hide/show merged. 
<ddaa> jblack: I'm not thinking of setting an explicit freshness, just computing it from the metadata in the db.
<jblack> I'd have a lot of uses for that.
<ddaa> niemeyer: I've been told to look at dyson for that.
<jblack> However the backend figures out freshness... <shrug> same difference to me as the likely first enduser. =)
<niemeyer> jblack: If the "signal" is too low, having no noise doesn't help. ;)
<ddaa> ha, right, you mean as end user, I though you meant as developer.
<ddaa> jblack: now, an interesting problem, is can we guess a likely landing target for automatic hiding of merged branches?
<niemeyer> jblack: I have no idea about what would be the right way to do it, for sure. But I wouldn't care about hidding branches before it actually becomes a problem.
<jblack> niemeyer: Yes, but displaying garbage just because you don't have enough non-garbage doesn't turn the garbage into non-garbage, no? 
<ddaa> well, let's just show the lesser garbage :)
<ddaa> garbageness is relative, you know
<jblack> I agree.
<jblack> So, how fresh is fresh? I think a month
<ddaa> Ha... that way...
<niemeyer> jblack: Whatever..
<jblack> a branch with no description and a month with no commits is probably not valuable to me.
<ddaa> I think it's better to to show a fixed absolute number of branches.
<jblack> and people should be able to mark branches stale too.
<jblack> I don't agree.
<jblack> Here's why: That makes somebody that works very fast difficult to track.
<jblack> That also makes the garbage ratio go up for sporadic developers.
<jblack> I think it should be time based.
<jblack> for example, I get to work on about half a dozen branches a month for work.
<niemeyer> ddaa: Dyson doesn't seem to have anything interesting..
<jblack> aaron probably does many multiples of that.
<niemeyer> SteveA: Do you know anything about that issue?
<niemeyer> <niemeyer> ddaa: Tests for bzrsync are exploding because I'm using getUtility without first calling execute_zcml_for_scripts().
<jblack> So a dozen things on aaron's list would only list the last 3 days of his activity. 
<jblack> but a dozen things on my list would show the last two months of mine.
<ddaa> Two things... 1. fixed number is not a problem for sporadic if it's low enough to glance at (less than 10), and date limit will cause the page to go empty with only a stupid "more branch" link
<niemeyer> SteveA: Any standard way to fix it, besides calling the zcml loader on constructor, which could potentially break the test when used as a suite from somewhere else?
<ddaa> 2. very active... mh... maybe time limit would be better for those, as there can be many (say up to twenty) interesting branches for a person.
<ddaa> jblack: so, I'd suggest the initial listing should show max(fixed number, commited in last month)
<SteveA> um... don't use getUtility without first calling execute_zcml_for_scripts().
<SteveA> it is the zcml that registers the utilities#
<ddaa> jblack: how does that sound?
<niemeyer> jblack: A branch with 10 commits per-day which is just merging from mpool is not really interesting.. measurement of branch interest rate is a non-trivial task, IMO.
<jblack> niemeyer: it is to me. It tells me which branches to track for activity. :) 
<niemeyer> SteveA: Yes, that part is already implied in the above comment :)
<jblack> It also tells me which branch to branch off of. :)
<SteveA> any test that needs to use getUtility is by definition not a unit test.  it is a functional test.  so it needs a functional test set-up.
<SteveA> in the latest zope3 test runner, there's the concept of 'layers' to deal with this kind of requirement.
<SteveA> meanwhile...
<jblack> but still, I did mention the ability to mark something stale, right? 
<ddaa> niemeyer: it would not be very difficult to measure the amount of real new stuff on a branch, but it would be CPU intensive.
<SteveA> if it doesn't already, execute_zcml_for_scripts() should have a flag to ensure it is run only once per process.
<niemeyer> SteveA: The getUtility is not being used in the test, but inside the BzrSync class.
<SteveA> right
<niemeyer> (if it matters at all)
<SteveA> so, it is a functional test
<SteveA> so, either...
<jblack> ddaa: I think that your solution is basically right. Automatically decide what stuff is stale, and give the user to override on a per branch basis any individual one. 
<SteveA> treat it as a (potentially) full system functional test
<SteveA> and run zcml for scripts
<SteveA> OR
<SteveA> treat it as a slightly larger unit test
<SteveA> and register the appropriate utilities in the unit test
<SteveA> as stubs
<carlos> SteveA, tomorrow morning I will be offline to do some legal papers things. I will be back before the meeting and will have my phone with me just in case someone needs something from me
<ddaa> jblack: i'm not sure how I'm going to make that fit with the existing lifecycle-centred listing... but I'll try to come up with something.
<SteveA> carlos: okay.  will you be around after the meeting?
<ddaa> jblack: in the short term, we need to agree on whether we want to hide auto-registered branches with no description...
<carlos> SteveA, yes, I will work as usual when I'm back
<jblack> ddaa: This particular approach doesn't have to be the one. But please, please, don't make me sift through 9838383 of aaron's branch to find the one that I want. :) 
<niemeyer> SteveA: Ouch.. this is getting too complex.
<niemeyer> SteveA: Everything needed is getting the admin user..
<SteveA> what is the BzrSync class?
<SteveA> is it a database class?
<niemeyer>     """
<niemeyer>     The purpose of this class is to import data from a bzr branch
<niemeyer>     into the Launchpad database.
<niemeyer>     """
<niemeyer> No, it's a "loader"
* SteveA throws PEP-8 at niemeyer ;-)
<ddaa> jblack: related question, should the person pushing a branch to sftp be assumed the author of the branch?
<niemeyer> !?
<SteveA> so, this class needs to use something
<SteveA> something that appears like a part of the database
<SteveA>     """The purpose of this class is to import data from a bzr branch into the Launchpad database."""
<SteveA> except that's rather a long line
<SteveA> so...
<SteveA> options are:
<SteveA> 1. use the real database
<ddaa> niemeyer: first paragraph of a docstring should be a single line. And fit in the 79 cols constraint.
<SteveA> 2. use something that provides the API that BzrSync needs
<SteveA> the former is a full-system test.  the latter, a unit test
<SteveA> the plug-point is getUtility().  That's one of the things getUtility() is for.
<ddaa> jblack: ping?
<SteveA> So, you need to choose whether to write a full-system test, or a unit test.  If you want the full system test, you need to pay the price in setting up the utilities using zcml.
<jblack> ddaa: sorry. Talking to somone on #bzr as well
<SteveA> If you want a unit test, you need to add the appropriate stub.
<SteveA> to isolate this unit from the rest of the system.
<jblack> ddaa: Hmmm.
<jblack> ddaa: They're the author after the first commit. prior to that, its just a mirror.
* SteveA gets rude and cranky due to lack of sleep and fast-fading jetlag
<jblack> They're the owner of the branch, though.
<SteveA> (so i'll have no excuse next week...)
<ddaa> jblack: okay, then we won't auto-set author.
<jblack> the concept of author in the bzr context is a rather shaky concept, imho.
<ddaa> jblack: agreed
<jblack> A revision certainly has an owner though
<ddaa> nope
<ddaa> don't!
<ddaa> A revision has a committer
<ddaa> which may or may not be an email launchpad knows about.
<ddaa> and may have signatures
<jblack> Fair enough.
<jblack> a revision has a committer, which to me is synonymous with author.
<jblack> a branch is a collection of revisions, which independantly have auth^wcommitters
<ddaa> owner/author is something very specific in launchpad, that's why you should avoid conflating terms. I'm happy we talked sabdfl out of Revision.owner.
<jblack> I suppose you could argue that the person that assembles revisions is an author of a sort, in that "he assembles" the individual works.
<jblack> I can imagine why the two definitions need to remain discrete. Author it is
<ddaa> So, the "related branches" and "registered branches" listing could have, at first, an additional section with non-described branches (which should all have lifecycle=NEW), listed in a compact way.
<ddaa> jblack: well, there's Branch.author now, IMO it's a bug because we do not have the ability to transfer ownership yet.
<jblack> sure, though I'm not sure what the value is of browsing a marked up directory listing in which the only apparent difference is the part after the last / for the branch location.
<SteveA> niemeyer: from zope.app.tests import ztapi; from zope.app.tests.placeslesssetup import setUp, tearDown; setUp(); ztapi.provideUtility(IWhatever, object_that_provides_IWhatever, '')  ; tearDown()
<ddaa> jblack: at first, because described branches will appear differently.
<SteveA> niemeyer: for examples, see sourcecode/zope/src/zope/app/container/browser/tests/test_adding.py
<ddaa> jblack: later, because I'll add a freshness feature.
<niemeyer> SteveA: Thanks, I was looking for that
<ddaa> jblack: then, there's the listing for a product...
<jblack> That's where BAV comes in.
<jblack> I think that its solvable with some sort of karma measurement on a per-project basis, but does that exist? 
* ddaa goes off IRC to properly read the spec, as skimming does not give much.
<niemeyer> SteveA: Looking at the implementation, the word "boilerplate" suddenly comes into my mind. :-)
<niemeyer> ... implementation of LaunchpadCelebrities ...
<ddaa> jblack: the definition of "activity" in that spec seems missing.
<jblack> ddaa: It defines how to measure activity, but not what activity is? 
<ddaa> number of commits, number of commiters etc. is irrelevant, as it's preserved by simple branching and pulling.
<ddaa> jblack: AFAICT it defines neither.
<jblack> It is a pretty old spec. It may predate bzr
<ddaa> Yeah... absolutely...
<ddaa> it has one or two interesting items though...
<ddaa> It's suggesting the use of a ProductBranchRelationship
<ddaa> (anointment of branch by product owners)
<ddaa> otherwise, it's mostly wishful thinking and handwaving AFAICT
<SteveA> niemeyer: yes.  although, if you derive your test case class from the right thing, you don't need the boilerplate.
<SteveA> although, you still need to hook up your chosen object to be that utility.
<SteveA> ah... implementation of the celebs.  yeah, that could be made less repetitive.  hasn't seemed worth the effort so far.
<niemeyer> SteveA: Yes, that's what I meant.. but anyway, no big deal.
* SteveA finishes for the day, and goes to watch yet another episode of Firefly
<SteveA> niemeyer: be my guest if it irritates you enough to refactor it ;-)
<SteveA> or, file a bug on the infrastructure team
<SteveA> lines of repetition saved are fewer lines to maintain, after all
<niemeyer> SteveA: Thanks. Let's see how many times I'll stumble on it.. :)
<SteveA> hmm... we could have a standard unit-testing thing
<SteveA> that makes it easy to plug in alternative implementations of various utilities that we expect to be replaced for unit testing
<SteveA> without actually having to do the provide-a-new-utility dance
* SteveA really goes...
<niemeyer> SteveA: Thanks for your support
<niemeyer> ddaa: Tests are passing! Go! Go! Go!
<niemeyer> :-)
<bradb> BjornT_: ping
<carlos> mdz, hmmm, not sure if I missed your question... please, could you repeat it if you send me it already?
<mdz> carlos: I wanted to ask about gettext-kde
<ddaa> niemeyer: cool, is that pushed?
<mdz> carlos: if it's not reasonable to bring the patches forward, what other options do we have?  change the .po files?  change the code?
<niemeyer> ddaa: Not yet.. I'll do a "full blown" test (importing something real), and will push it.
<ddaa> rad!
<carlos> mdz, the main problem with that is that I don't understand the patch at first sight and I don't have the time to study it and port it to the new gettext
<ddaa> In the meantime I'll look at Steve's review comments for the pybaz patch (incremental mirror output, remember?)
<carlos> mdz, the thing is that KDE 4 will not require that special gettext anymore
<carlos> mdz, so perhaps the patch migration is not needed in a year or so
<carlos> mdz, if you find someone that has time to port the patches, that's a good solution too
<mdz> carlos: is the special gettext needed to support a different .po file format, or different API?
<carlos> but there is no other way to add full KDE support (either port the patch to latest gettext or adding gettext-kde), at least that we are aware of...
<carlos> mdz, no, the .po file is the same
<carlos> mdz, they use the msgid string to add the extra information
<carlos> so it's still a valid .po file 
<carlos> so instead of having: msgid "foo" you have msgid "_: Some context\nfoo"
<carlos> mdz: or for this concrete case, the plural forms, msgid "foo" -> msgid "_n: foo\nfoos"
<mdz> carlos: ok, so it's a change in how gettext interprets the po file
<carlos> mdz, no, it's a change in how gettext extracts the strings from the source code
<mdz> hmm
<carlos> gettext returns the string as usual, without chanes and KDE then parses it to get the plural forms
<mdz> carlos: so the reason to package it separately is for the benefit of rosetta?
<carlos> s/chanes/changes/
<carlos> mdz, yes
<mdz> carlos: ok, thanks
<carlos> mdz, to be able to handle KDE translations with Rosetta
<elmo> jamesh: !
<carlos> mdz, because the .pot generation is done on build time
<niemeyer> ddaa: Tested. Preparing to push
<lifeless> morning y'all
<gneuman> mornig
<niemeyer> Morning Robert!
* carlos -> dinner
<cprov> lifeless: morning 
<lifeless> how are you cprov, niemeyer ?
<niemeyer> Everything aligned.. :)
<cprov> lifeless: I'm fine, recovering slowly from UBZ :) and you ?
<lifeless> jetlagged :P otherwise just dandy :)
<niemeyer> Oh my! THere are huge ice stones being thrown in the window..
<lifeless> ?
<lifeless> hail ?
<cprov> lifeless: btw, I think PQM is lost due one of my branches, could you check ,please ?
<elmo> jamesh: I've kill -STOP'ed whatever you were doing on macquarie, please ping when you're awake
* cprov is almost leaving 
<lifeless> spiv: around ?
<lifeless> cprov: its hung in the librarian
<lifeless> cprov: I'm going to debug with spiv.
<lifeless> may take a bit, but would like to prevent recurrence.
<jblack> I think we're going to get drupal into bzr.
<jblack> It's not sold, but I have someone who sees the light, and about 4 developers who are sold but don't realize it yet
<LarstiQ> jblack: talked to walkah yet?
<jblack> Yeah.
<jblack> He's interested too
<Nafallo> yay! :-)
<Nafallo> good for them :-)
<jblack> Yup. :) 
<ddaa> lifeless: pqm appears hung... the first item in the queue dates from more than 3 hours
<ddaa> (and the queue has grown ridiculously large, too)
<spiv> lifeless: yeah.
<LarstiQ> jblack: nice
<lifeless> spiv: the librarian is not responding to kill
<lifeless> ddaa: I know, read the scrollback please.
<ddaa> ack
<lifeless> spiv: what can I do to it to help you correct this ?
<spiv> lifeless: can you get a backtrace out of it with gdb + pystack?
<lifeless> I dunno
* spiv finds the relevant gdb macro
<spiv> lifeless: http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/python/python/dist/src/Misc/gdbinit?rev=1.11&view=auto
<spiv> lifeless: Or I guess http://svn.python.org/view/*checkout*/python/trunk/Misc/gdbinit?rev=39492  ;)
<lifeless> ok, thats setup
<lifeless> gdb attached
<spiv> Even a plain bt from gdb may help, but pystack would be better :)
<lifeless> pystack
<lifeless> No symbol "co" in current context.
<lifeless> hmm
<spiv> (don't run pystack in a non-main thread though, it seems to crash gdb)
<spiv> Just keep going up.
<spiv> Until it works.
<spiv> I should learn enough gdb-fu one day to make it work better.
<lifeless> wheres our pastebin >
<spiv> lifeless: https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/
<lifeless> going up killed the process
<lifeless> https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/file7511Dq.html
<spiv> Whee.
<lifeless> still canot pystack
<ddaa> goodnight guys
<lifeless> its not a python debug build AFAIK
<lifeless> does that matter
<spiv> lifeless: the python2.4-dbg package is all that's needed...
<spiv> I wonder if that's installed.
<lifeless> elmo: ping
<lifeless> so that has killed it
<lifeless> its gone now. but lets get setup for the next one
<spiv> (python2.4-dbg includes both a debug build, *and* detached debugging symbols for the normal build)
<lifeless> mailed rt
<spiv> lifeless: thanks
<lifeless> did you land those test runner changes you worked on ?
<spiv> Hmm, no, I meant to ask you about that -- I don't have permission to merge into the zope branch.
<spiv> They passed review, though.
<lifeless> you do now
<lifeless> SteveA: ping regarding new zope snapshot.
<spiv> Ta :)
#launchpad 2005-11-22
<mpt> grrrrr freenode
<mpt> anyone: What's the bzr equivalent of baz diff rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0?
<mpt> http://bazaar.canonical.com/IntroductionToBzr doesn't have an example of diffing against another branch, and "bzr diff -r ../archives/rocketfuel/launchpad" returns an error
<bradb> mpt: bzr diff -r branch:/path/to/branch. It's a hidden feature, as best I can tell.
<mpt> hmm, that doesn't return an error, but it doesn't return anything else either
<mpt> I thought I made some changes ...
<bradb> I haven't yet managed to sell the bzr developers on bzr diff behaving like svn diff is not a feature.
<mpt> thanks bradb, I'll try fixing a bug and see if it works :-)
<bradb> np
<bradb> (or that if it doesn't behave like svn diff, there should at least be some other zero-thought-required way of finding out what you've changed on a branch.)
<bradb> s/doesn't/does/
* bradb heads off
<lifeless> beb0s: I'm not sure
<lifeless> url ?
<beb0s> https://launchpad.net/products/gcc/+series/head
<beb0s> i've inadveritely linked to gcc-4.0 ... :-/
<beb0s> now i've linked to gcc-snapshot package
<lifeless> I see a 3.3 and 3.4 and snapshot links
<lifeless> beb0s: is that wwhat you see ?
<beb0s> yes, in this form https://launchpad.net/products/gcc/+series/head/+ubuntupkg i can't set empty package
<beb0s> yes, I see gcc-3.3 gcc-3.4 and gcc-snapshot links
<lifeless> ok
<lifeless> the 3.3 and 3.4 ones are historical. AFAICT
<lifeless> is the gcc-snapshot one correct ?
<beb0s> I think so, gcc-snapshot_20051112-1 is in univese, so it's quite updated
<lifeless> then I think its fine
<beb0s> ok
<beb0s> what will happen if I link a product release series (which does not correspond to any ubuntu source package) to a wrong source package ? can I remove that link ?
<lifeless> does not look like it ;0. Could you file a bug ?
<beb0s> ok, I'll do.
<lifeless> thanks!
<beb0s> another question : in this form https://launchpad.net/products/gcc/+series/4.0/+addrelease where should i put the url to tar.gz ?
<beb0s> it's Bug #4556
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #4556: can't remove link beetween products and source package Fix req. for: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4556
<HiddenWolf> Guys, I don't want to file a bug, but really, yellow on white isn't a good plan for anything.
<HiddenWolf> please don't make people use it in specs or so. :P
<jblack> heh. Hi. I have an anouncement: announce. Kthx bye
<jbailey> I can't imagine why (s)he wouldn't want to file a bug.
<jbailey> Filing a bug raises karma. =)
<lifeless> jamesh: ping
<jamesh> lifeless: pong
<lifeless> can you kick off a review run?
<lifeless> and did you see elmos message about SIGSTOPing your processes on macquarie ?
<jamesh> there is a pending-reviews run going right now
<lifeless> cool
<jamesh> https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~jamesh/pending-reviews.new/robertc/launchpad/tests/ <- is that what you're looking for?
<lifeless> :)
<jamesh> (it'll go from pending-reviews.new/ to pending-reviews/ once the run is finished)
<lifeless> yes, I know ;)
<jamesh> lifeless: btw, here's a hack I wrote to get bzr to use openssh for sftp connections: http://people.ubuntu.com/~jamesh/bzr-openssh-plugin/
<lifeless> -> #bzr dude
<jordi> I have a msg here highlighted, but it's not in my buffer
<jordi> can anyone tell me what was it?
<lifeless> not I
<jblack> I put my ubz pics up. http://gallery.linuxguru.net/ubz
<jblack> Jordi! You live!
<jordi> I do!
<jordi> jblack: many, many, many thanks for all you did
<jordi> I wish I could have said good bye
<jordi> but you did right fleeing when you could
<jblack> It was my pleasure, and I'd do it again in a heartbeat.
<jblack> That was Paul's suggestion.
<jordi> have you replaced the wheel tire?
<jblack> Well, oddly, the tire has been fine since then.
<jblack> I have a can of tire-inflater if it goes flat again.
<jordi> jblack: tyre, anyway.
<jordi> jblack: good
<jordi> hmm. tire is valid too
<jordi> strange
<jblack> Tired as we were though, I've had a great story here at home about how I smuggled a spaniard and a brit across the US border. :)
<jordi> jblack: haha, yes.
<jordi> jblack: the tour was crazy since you left. mako being involved doesn't help :)
<jblack> How's he doing?
<jordi> jblack: as always :)
<jordi> ok
<jordi> 7AM
<jordi> let's pretend I'm adapted to the TZ and go to work as normal
<jordi> my brain will be fried in a few hours tho
<jblack> jordi: You have to be up in 5.8 hours for the lp meeting anyways.
<jordi> jblack: I'll be here at office :)
<jordi> want it or not :)
<stub> jamesh spiv: Ping
<jamesh> stub: pong
<stub> jamesh: What have you got on your plate after the bugzilla migration?
<jamesh> stub: I'm looking at ErrorReportManagement right now
<stub> Cool. 
<stub> SteveA has asked me to coordinate infrastructure stuff while he concentrates on UI work, so I need to keep tabs on outstanding tasks, priorities, blockers etc. and to help out as needed.
<jamesh> spiv posted to the list that he was sick today
<stub> Ahh.. I see. Ta.
<stub> I suspect he has his hands full with supermirror stuff
<sivang> does anyone know if Martin Pool should come online sometime? 
<jamesh> sivang: try #bzr
<sivang> jamesh: k, thx
<cprov> morning guys
<Nafallo> morning Celso :-)
<cprov> Nafallo: did I miss something ? or worst, did I do something wrong ?  I have this feeling when people reffer to me by my name and not my nick, in fact I remember my mother ;)
<matsubara> good morning!
<Nafallo> cprov: hehe. nope. I just like names from time to time :-).
<Nafallo> also, with me there is no difference ;-)
<cprov> Nafallo: right, I don't mind too ... just a thought 
<Nafallo> :-)
<SteveA> meeting in about 13 minutes
<sivang> SteveA: in this channel right?
<SteveA> yes
<spiv> stub: pong
<spiv> stub: Yeah, my main focus is supermirror stuff atm.
<spiv> That, and to stop catching plagues...
<SteveA> MEETING TIME
<SteveA> who is present today?
<jblack> moan
<SteveA> good moaning to you too
<jamesh> me
<BjornT> me
<ddaa> them
<spiv> I'm here, surprisingly...
<niemeyer> Here
<matsubara> here
<salgado> me
<SteveA> kiko is on vacation
<mpt_> me
<lifeless> SteveA: hi
<lifeless> SteveA: isn't this 45 minutes early ?
<SteveA> steve@einheit:~$ date -u
<SteveA> Thu Nov 17 12:02:12 UTC 2005
<lifeless> oh, no its not, my bad.
<jamesh> lifeless: you're on DST now
<lifeless>     *
<lifeless>       Thursday 17 November 1200 UTC - 1245 UTC
<lifeless> I read that as starting at 1245UTC
<SteveA> hi brad
<bradb> hih
<bradb> s/h$//
<lifeless> anyway, I'd like to beg off and go crash, my eyelids are falling down
<SteveA> == Agenda ==
<SteveA>  - Roll call
<SteveA>  - Agenda
<SteveA>  - Next meeting
<SteveA>  - Activity reports
<SteveA>  - Production / staging (stub)
<SteveA>  - Production gina run (stub)
<SteveA>  - Robert's new role (lifeless)
<SteveA>  - Importing stuff unofficially into rosetta. (mpt)
<lifeless> $jetlag
<SteveA>  - Keep, Bag, Change (Kinnison)
<SteveA>  - Three sentences
<SteveA> 
<SteveA> lifeless: okay, but can you say a few words about your new role first?
<lifeless> 1/2 time project helping/improving the quality of what we do - test frameworks, coding techniques, review processes etc. Cross-team launchpad/bazaar/distro.
<stub> Yo
<jordi> sorry guys, I am here
<SteveA> hi jordi
<lifeless> I have a short list of 15 odd things that should make development easier.
<sivang> lifeless: what are you going to work on distro-team wise?
<lifeless> once they are knocked over, I'll start looking at the broader picture stuff
<SteveA> okay.  so lifeless is the new testing and quality czar
<lifeless> sivang: on my plate is to read up the test plans, automated-testing and testing-server-hardware specs.
<SteveA> lifeless: please (later on) schedule a meeting where we can talk about things to do with testing in launchpad
<lifeless> sivang: related to that is making point-n-click review stuff for mdz to review changes to packages.
<sivang> wow, cool
<lifeless> SteveA: it can be part of next weeks lp meeting if you like, or are you saying one with me and you ?
<SteveA> me + you + other interested people.  although it could be part of the development meeting, if it will not take long
<lifeless> well, lets you and I have a small one tomorrow, 0800UTC ?
<SteveA> ok
<lifeless> anyone else thats wants to be around is cool. And we can take the output of that -> next weeks lp meeting.
<SteveA> okay, great.
<niemeyer> That's 6AM here.. :(
* sivang is interested as welll
<SteveA> there's also the meeting on thursday, niemeyer 
<sivang> s/l$//
<ddaa> Early bird takes the patch.
<SteveA> so, you won't be missing anything. 
<lifeless> its not a small topic, nor one that one meeting will finish.
<niemeyer> SteveA: Huh?
<lifeless> so there is plenty of time to put input in and discuss etc etc.
<niemeyer> SteveA: Ah, sorry..
<lifeless> ok, thanks, night.
<SteveA> niemeyer: some people will talk about it tomorrow.  everyone can also talk about it next thursday
<niemeyer> SteveA: I've read one word wrongly.. :)
<niemeyer> Ok
<SteveA> == Agenda ==
<SteveA>  - Roll call
<SteveA>  - Robert's new role (lifeless)
<SteveA>  - Agenda
<SteveA>  - Next meeting
<SteveA>  - Activity reports
<SteveA>  - Production / staging (stub)
<niemeyer> Save the logs somewhere, please
<SteveA>  - Production gina run (stub)
<SteveA>  - Importing stuff unofficially into rosetta. (mpt)
<SteveA>  - Keep, Bag, Change (Kinnison)
<SteveA>  - Three sentences
<SteveA> 
<SteveA> sure.  fabionne's logging bot does it
<SteveA> next meeting: thursday 1200 UTC? 
<stub> fine here
<SteveA> all not in favour, shout loudly in the next 10 seconds
<bradb> LOUDLY
<jordi> but, are we continuing with this one?
<bradb> er, n/m
<bradb> that works for me
<SteveA> jordi: pardon
<SteveA> ?
<lifeless> SteveA: EARLIER
<jblack> lifeless: you sould die
<lifeless> its an 11pm start. Which is why this one has me beat.
<SteveA> bradb: what time is it now for you?
<bradb> 7:11
<jordi> SteveA: hmm. I dunno, I thought this was being postponed until next week
<bradb> (AM)
<SteveA> jblack: for you?
<jblack> Its 7am right now. earlier than that, and I get whiny. :)
<lifeless> I'm typically up at 6am.
<SteveA> jordi: you're getting confused with the distro meeting, i think
<sivang> lifeless: is anything of what you're going to do is at the direction of https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+spec/launchpad-qa-management ?
<SteveA> okay.  next week, 1200 UTC thursday.  with an agenda item to talk about moving 1 hr earlier.
<lifeless> given that the northern hemisphere just went off daylight savings, and the southern onto, why dont we move it 12 hours ?
<SteveA> next, activity reports
* lifeless waves
<jblack> up to date
<mpt> up to date except for yesterday's
* salgado is up to date
<SteveA> who is up to date (in the three or so days since the conference)
* BjornT is up to date
* niemeyer is up to date as well
<ddaa> up to date (but date who?
<sivang> hehe
* jamesh is not up to date
* SteveA has one ready to send for yesterday.  was flaky with recording monday and tuesday.
* bradb is up to date since UBZ
<spiv> behind (already!).  Have sparse notes for the three days, though...
<stub> I might have missed one - jetlag has made for strage hours
<SteveA> one suggestion from jbailey is to pick a local time, say 5pm.  and then always send an activity report at that time.
<jordi> not up to date since a week before ubz
<SteveA> don't worry if you do stuff after that time.  put that into the next day's report
<jblack> I do it each night to celebrate going off the clock
<bradb> same here
<ddaa> I do it last thing when I call it a day.
<SteveA> to all those who are bang up to date, very well done.  i am impressed.
<SteveA> to all those who are reasonably up to day, well done indeed.
<SteveA> to all others (myself included), let's see if we can do better for next week's meeting
<SteveA>  - Production / staging (stub)
<stub> I'll roll our HEAD as of now next Tuesday to production, unless others scream
<niemeyer> ddaa: Have you managed to merged the branch changes?
<niemeyer> to merge
<ddaa> niemeyer: check your inbox
<ddaa> niemeyer: not yet pushed
<stub> I will kick start the automatic staging updates again if people can confirm that it is no longer needed for testing bugzilla/gina/publishing
<stub> (tomorrow)
<ddaa> stub: I would really like to get the BranchDataStorage patch in prod by monday
<jamesh> so a gina run is going to be done on Production?
<SteveA> i noticed a thread going by about bugzilla -> malone.  not read it yet.  any show stoppers?  do we need to keep testing it on staging?
<stub> jamesh: I have no idea - it is a meeting point for that reason ;)
<SteveA> jamesh: next agenda point
<ddaa> stub: but it's not merged yet, though it's should be ready for merge about just now
<stub> SteveA: It has triggered Timout errors on pages that neglected to implement batching, and maybe some other timeouts not related to batching
<SteveA> stub: can we get  those pages made into bugs?
<stub> ddaa: By monday? On Monday is doable if it lands soon.
<stub> SteveA: The one I'm aware of has been
<SteveA> bradb, BjornT, jamesh: any other bugzilla migration issues that mean we'll want to do another run on staging shortly?
<bradb> dunno. I haven't been able to check.
* cprov is late, here and up to date , sorry 
<ddaa> stub: it'll land as soon as I can get pqm to listen to me...
<jamesh> SteveA: after the gina run on production, it might be worth doing another run on staging with a copy of the gina data
<BjornT> SteveA: none that i know of, but i haven't checked closely yet. i'll check today, though
<jamesh> SteveA: but I'm fairly happy with the current output
<bradb> The RequestExpired problems on some key pages are making it hard to verify. That's one of the things I plan to try and sort out today.
<jamesh> bradb: the "/malone/bugtrackers/ubuntu-bugzilla" page isn't really a key page
<SteveA> moving along...
<stub> Ok. So to update..
<stub> I will rollout HEAD as of ddaa's landing on Monday
<bradb> stub: Can you wait until my X-Malone-Bug patch lands please? It's been dragging through code review for the last few days, but should be landed today.
* ddaa hugs stub
<stub> I will update staging code tomorrow to help with Bugzilla migration confirmation, but not nuke the database
<stub> bradb: If it lands before or near Davids
<stub> bradb: Is it blocking anything?
<bradb> only blocking me from doing more work on InitialBugContacts on that branch. but it'd be a big favour to the users to get it in there ASAP
<SteveA> it's a nice cosmetic change.
<bradb> BjornT: can you have a look at that today please?
<SteveA> not critical, but very nice to have
<BjornT> bradb: it's not hard to create a new branch. but yeah, i'll look at it today.
<SteveA>  - Production gina run (stub)
<stub> We are going to try to stick to a more regimented schedule for rollouts - weekly rollouts may be delayed, making a fourtnightly rollout, if nothing considered urgent is landed.
<stub> Also no cherry picks unless deemed 'urgent' either.
<stub> I don't want to define urgent so we can maintain some flexibility
<jordi> we all love the cherries
<stub> Ok. As for Gina. I want to know what is currently blocking a production run.
<stub> I'm aware of landing basic Librarian garbage collection, or more disk space on Macaroni.
<stub> I'm not aware of anything else. I think I need Kiko to answer that though.
<stub> Gina is blocking a number of other things, including Bugzilla bug migration, Debbugs migration, I believe some Rosetta stuff (?).
<SteveA> making dapper open on launchpad...
<ddaa> duck dissection?
<SteveA> who says it is a duck?
<mpt> the Fridge majority
<SteveA> okay.  no decision on gina today.  i'll check with mdz, elmo and others later today.
<stub> ok.
<SteveA>  - Importing stuff unofficially into rosetta. (mpt)
* ddaa just shove BranchDataStorage into pqm... everybody please burn a candle.
<mpt> (though, majorities can be wrong)
<mpt> So, I saw on rosetta-users a couple of people independently wanting to translate apt
<jordi> mpt: did you have something prepared for this one, or should I explain what's going on?
* SteveA burns the candle at both ends
<jordi> oh ok
<mpt> I asked jordi about it and he said he wasn't sure what to do about debian stuff
<mpt> where nobody from debian has approached Rosetta
<mpt> is that a fair summary jordi?
<jordi> I talked to SteveA, Kiko and Mark about unofficial stuff (ie, import requests which are not done by the upstream authors, or against upstream author's will)
<SteveA> carlos appears not to be here 
<jordi> for now, I had been trying to get them contact upstream to see if they were ok, but that normally ends up in they not coming back
<SteveA> i think we want carlos here to discuss this
<jordi> yeah... hm. Should I explain the rest so it's in the log?
<SteveA> ok
<ddaa> Mh... that's interesting, with bzr we can abuse pqm to merge between arbitrary branches, and so make it run test suites for us...
<jordi> SteveA and kiko were ok with this approach. If there was no agreement from upstream, not import it (to avoid stale, rotting products owned by some random dude)
<jordi> when I asked mark, he said we should import it, but mark them as "not official" prominently, so people can know that the work might or might not be used upstream
<jordi> for Debian requests, that's another story
<jordi> people want to import apt into a product translation
<jordi> I think they should be assigned to a "Debian translators" group. APT translations are very well managed by bubulle@debian.org, for example
<jordi> so stomping on this resource is wasting time in this case, and many others where bubulle is involved (d-i, dpkg...)
<jordi> and that's it.
<SteveA> jordi: please make a page on the wiki for RosettaNewTranslationPolicy (or some such name), and write the policy and the reasons for it there.  then, our next discussion on this is about improving or changing the policy on that page.  and it saves you from repeating yourself.
<SteveA> thanks for making the explanation
<jordi> SteveA: okie dokie
<SteveA> time marches on...
<SteveA>  - Keep, Bag, Change (Kinnison)
<salgado> ddaa, I don't think that's optimal when chinstrap is pretty overloaded. :-(
<SteveA> in the distro team meeting at UBZ, jeff bailey ran a session where people could bring up a topic, and say if it is something they want to Keep (a good thing we're doing)
<ddaa> salgado: never said it was a good thing to do. Just that it was an interesting side effect.
<SteveA> something they want to Bag (a thing we're doing that we shouldn't be), or something we want to Change (here's a better way of doing something)
<SteveA> in future development meetings, bring a list of anything you want to Keep, Bag or Change, and bring them up during the meeting.  You may have nothing to bring up, which is fine.
<SteveA> Kinnison: anything you want to say about this
<SteveA> ?
<SteveA>  - Three sentences
<SteveA> fire your sentences into the channel!
<salgado> DONE: Code review and wrote the new +packages page (after learning how SP, SPR, DRSPR & others work together)
<salgado> TODO: Finish the new +packages and start with ShipItReporting
<salgado> BLOCKED: No
<ddaa> DONE: BranchDataStorage through review and final fixes
<ddaa> TODO: get it merged and rolled out, rollout importd, bzrsync cronjobbing, update TheBazaar, BazaarTaskList
<ddaa> BLOCKED: Nope
<jblack> DONE: documents, advocacy
<mpt> DONE: Lots of Launchpad bug report cleanup, getting to know bzr
<mpt> TODO: preparatory fixes for new page layout, week's holiday
<mpt> BLOCKED: no
<jblack> TODO: same
<jblack> BLOCKED: none
<BjornT> DONE: UBZ. review. started on implementing DefaultAffectsTarget
<BjornT> TODO: reviews. finish implementing DefaultAffectsTarget. finish implementing ticket-tracker-outgoing-email.
<BjornT> BLOCKED: no
<spiv> DONE: jet lag, flu, figure out temporary work environment until I get new laptop...
<spiv> TODO: main focus is supermirror push server.
<niemeyer_> DONE: Synchronizing since UBZ, polishment on bzrsync, starting local deployment
<niemeyer_> TODO: Finish soyuz setup, continue the plan of world domination.
<niemeyer_> BLOCKED: Nope
<spiv> BLOCKED: not exactly, but it would be nice to get a new laptop, which depends on insurance money.
<stub> DONE: Jetlag, LibrarianGarbageCollection
<stub> TODO: Jetlag, LibrarianGarbageCollection
<stub> BLOCKED: No
<jamesh> DONE: jetlag / get bzr env setup on desktop / some bugzilla import fixes / start on ErrorReportManagement
<jamesh> TODO: more work on ErrorReportManagement / code reviews
<jamesh> BLOCKED: no
<jordi> DONE: potemplatename reviews, email, ubz
<jordi> TODO: imports for pending (mostly non-official) stuff, docs
<jordi> BLOCKED: launchpad-experts
<SteveA> lifeless: DONE - pqm ready to move to bellany, pqm community patch merging, sourcerer & hct fixes for pybaz usage.
<SteveA> lifeless: TODO: wheeeooo. long list.
<SteveA> lifeless: BLOCKED: elmo to get a i386 chroot for pqm to use when it moves to balleny
<SteveA> DONE: various management things.
<SteveA> TODO: convert website to moin (with henrik).  fix Vary header stuff.
<cprov> DONE: soyuz UI, richer and faster pages
<cprov> TODO: more soyuz UI (batching, urls, etc)
<cprov> BLOCKED: none
<SteveA> BLOCKED: no
<matsubara> DONE: fixed bugs, migrate from baz to bzr, reported bugs.
<bradb> DONE: (holiday 11/11), X-Malone-Bug, added some feedback messages to the Malone UI, partly landed. Lots of bugmail exchanges and exchanges with Nexenta.
<matsubara> TODO: fix bugs
<bradb> TODO: Finish InitialBugContacts and add many more feedback messages.
<matsubara> BLOCKED: no.
<bradb> BLOCKED: Not really.
<SteveA> jordi: what does "BLOCKED: launchpad-experts" mean?
<jordi> SteveA: I need launchpad-experts to be landed (kiko's patch) so I can tweak product details
<SteveA> jordi: let's talk about that after the meeting
<jordi> SteveA: ok
<SteveA> same for your blockers, cprov 
<SteveA> that's all folks.
<SteveA> END OF MEETING
<cprov> SteveA: sure
<cprov> SteveA: uhm .. BLOCKED: None ?
<SteveA> jordi: do you know what branch this is on?
<jordi> SteveA: nope
<SteveA> cprov: oh!  i read it wrong.  i read that you were blocked on : more soyuz UI (batching, urls, etc)
<jordi> SteveA: it's not high priority
<SteveA> jordi: can it wait until kiko is back from vacation?
<cprov> SteveA: ehe kind of, but not really, plenty time to work on soyuz UI this week, let's rearrange the binaries path as I did for sources
<jordi> SteveA: toally
* SteveA notes that a few people didn't offer three sentences.  
* SteveA will write a meeting summary...
<SteveA> i'm off to get some lunch.  back later.
<niemeyer_> SteveA: There was a missing "of soyuz" in my DONE sentence, if you're going to use it.
* ddaa -> lunch
<carlos> hmmm
<carlos> SteveA, dude, sorry!! I forgot that the meeting was moved one hour before....
* carlos reads the log
<stub> jamesh's pending reviews script seems to be having issues
<carlos> ok, it's a bit late but...
<carlos> SteveA, I'm lacking the activity reports since a week before UBZ
<carlos> SteveA, and my three sentences:
<carlos> DONE: TranslationUploads
<carlos> TODO: fix, small problem with a test on TranslationUploads, Rosetta bugs triage, language packs from Rosetta at 100%
<carlos> BLOCKED: no
* carlos notes the time change for the meeting...
<Nafallo> jbailey: rock on! :-)
<jbailey> Nafallo: eh?
<Nafallo> jbailey: "autobuilt package on commit"
<jbailey> Nafallo: Oh, sorry.  That's not accurate. =)
<jbailey> It's going to be, and I'm getting ready for it.
* jbailey changes the message to say "Almost autobuilt package on commit" for now.
<Nafallo> hehe
<Nafallo> oki
<jbailey> Nafallo: Part of it was moving to minutes precision on the timestamp.
<jbailey> Which means I can now update this again with no problems. =)
<Nafallo> :-)
<DeCenT_DuDe> hello people
<DeCenT_DuDe> anybody out there 
<niemeyer> Anyone here knows what is an "overbroad except"?
<niemeyer> ddaa: Besides you.. :)
<stub> niemeyer: I haven't heard the term before, but I can understand its meaning
* niemeyer couldn't..
<bradb> BjornT: are you sure about this being-able-to-break-expected-output-on-whitespace thing?
<stub> I don't think 'overbroad' is actually an English word
<stub> 'overly broad exception handler' would be correct
<bradb> BjornT: e.g. related to this, it is expected that if >>> foo(bar) should return [1, 2] , writing the doctest output accidentally as "[1,2] " will fail.
<BjornT> bradb: yes, pretty sure, i use it all the time. the example you just gave doesn't break at a whitespace.
<bradb> BjornT: no but, as i say, it's related. i.e. the output must be literally exact, IME.
<BjornT> bradb: not if NORMALIZE_WHITESPACE is used, which is the default in our tests. [1,    2]  would match [1, 2] 
<bradb> hm, i may have gotten it to work this time, though i'm not sure why
<bradb> wow, even:
<bradb>     ['product=firefox; status=New; priority=None; assignee=None;',
<bradb>      'distribution=debian; sourcepackage=mozilla-firefox;\n\tcomponent=None;       status=New; priority=None; assignee=None; '] 
<bradb> works
<bradb> er, there was a linebreak there before status=New in the example I copied
<carlos> SteveA, hi
<carlos> SteveA, did you see my messages this afternoon?
<SteveA> carlos: no.  my computer crashed :-(
<SteveA> it always goes flaky after an acpi package upgrade
<SteveA> so, what's up?
<ddaa> lifeless: if you are here, please authorise me to commit to rocketfuel/pybaz/devel
<carlos> SteveA, I forgot the time change....
<carlos> SteveA, so I was late for the meeting, sorry
<SteveA> i saw about the time thing
<SteveA> i keep a UTC clock around on my desktop as well as a local time one
<SteveA> i find that helps with international meetings
<carlos> SteveA, I added my report status and my three sentences bingo, let me look for them and send you it again
<carlos> SteveA, well, evolution warns me, the problem is that I forgot to change the timezone for it 
<carlos> SteveA, so I got the warning when I woke up (at .ca time) and didn't pay attentition...
<carlos> carlos ok, it's a bit late but...
<carlos> carlos SteveA, I'm lacking the activity reports since a week before UBZ
<carlos> carlos SteveA, and my three sentences:
<carlos> carlos DONE: TranslationUploads
<carlos> carlos TODO: fix, small problem with a test on TranslationUploads, Rosetta bugs triage, language packs from Rosetta at 100%
<carlos> carlos BLOCKED: no
<carlos> SteveA, about "- Importing stuff unofficially into rosetta. (mpt)"
<carlos> what should we do? have an specific meeting? wait for next Thursdays' meeting?
<SteveA> okay.  i'll add those details into the meeting summary.
<carlos> SteveA, thanks
<salgado> hey SteveA, might you have some time for a quick review today?
<SteveA> salgado: sure
<salgado> SteveA, should I mail you the diff?
<SteveA> okay, unless it is on the pending reviews page
<salgado> no, it's not there yet
<salgado> SteveA, sent
<SteveA> carlos: so, what do you think about the issue of importing stuff into rosetta?
<carlos> SteveA, I agree that it's a problem
<SteveA> let's examine the problem
<bradb> BjornT: I'm about to reply. Do you want the whole diff or just the diff of the changes made for my reply?
<carlos> SteveA, and I don't know the best solution for that...
<SteveA> here's an example of the issue
<SteveA> some folks in lithuania want to translate roundup into lithuanian
<carlos> SteveA, the idea of creating a Debian translation team is more or less how we are solving that issue with GNOME and KDE
<SteveA> roundup doesn't have its pot or po files in rosetta yet, although it does have a product in launchpad
<SteveA> so one of the lithuanian translators comes to jordi and says "can we have this in rosetta"
<BjornT> bradb: diff of the changes will be fine
* niemeyer has some stuff to put in the mail, regarding pending stuff due to UBZ and forms for Canonical.
<niemeyer> Will be back in 1h or so..
<SteveA> if jordi says "yes, fine" and does it, what bad things can happen?
<carlos> SteveA, that there are other translations for other languages that other Rosetta users add
<carlos> and upstream never get them or they have a conflict there with the official translator for roundup
<carlos> we try to prevent the missing languages asking for all .po files
<carlos> but that will end with an out of sync after sometime because we don't care about updates, only for the initial import
<bradb> BjornT: reply sent
<SteveA> carlos: okay, so we get some translations happening in rosetta.  and meanwhile, there are other translations happening upstream.
<carlos> righ
<carlos> right
<SteveA> can't that just be fixed by re-uploading the official ones, and letting rosetta merge?
<carlos> SteveA, yes, but who will do it?
<carlos> also, that only solves the upstream -> Rosetta path. We still lack the Rosetta -> upstream one
<carlos> SteveA, with bazaar integration we would do the updates automatically
<SteveA> so, is it a problem with expectations?  translators using rosetta are doing this work, and they expect it to be used upstream.  but often in this case, it won't be used.
<SteveA> so people will be disappointed.
<carlos> right
<carlos> Mark added a tag to note that upstream is not using Rosetta officially
<carlos> but I don't think it's good enough
<SteveA> okay.  disappointment is a problem, because it makes people wary of using rosetta.
<Nova> hey can anyone hel me 
<carlos> SteveA, and upstream angry because we are duplicating their work
<SteveA> tell me about how our policy solves this problem.
<Nova> im newbie from here
<carlos> Nova, hi
<SteveA> hello Nova 
<carlos> Nova, just ask what you need and we will try to answer you
<SteveA> "Nova" means "newbie" doesn't it? ;-)
<carlos> SteveA, the problem is our lack of policy here... that's what jordi/mpt want to solve
<carlos> SteveA, in Spanish: 'it doesn't work' ;-)
<carlos> well, 'No va' not 'Nova'
<SteveA> i asked jordi to write a wiki page giving the current policy, and explaining why
<SteveA> i think that's important, so we can point people at that page, and also change the page if we change the policy
<carlos> ok
<SteveA> what is a good policy for now?
<SteveA> if the upstream agree, then fine
<SteveA> we need things there if there are ubuntu packages
<carlos> The best one is a conservative approach, only import what upstream maintainers ask to import
<salgado> SteveA, how much work is it, to have custom error messages for each vocabulary. I mean, customize that "Invalid value" message you get when you try to file a bug on a package that doesn't exist, for instance
<carlos> SteveA, ubuntu packages are unrelated to this issue, at least IMHO
<SteveA> i think the localization teams need ubuntu packages in order to localize ubuntu 
<SteveA> salgado: talk with stub.  he's done work in that area
<carlos> SteveA, but those are not products, and we are directly upstream in that case
<salgado> stub, still around?
<carlos> SteveA, of course, we still have the problem of not sending back the updates from Ubuntu
<SteveA> carlos: is having po files for packages very different from having po files for products?  is the issue that these are changes being made just for ubuntu (although the translated strings are available in the general pool) 
<SteveA> salgado: it sounds like a fine idea, although maybe it should be per field and not per vocabulary.
<salgado> SteveA, yeah, that would be even better
<carlos> SteveA, the main thing is that ubuntu packages are sync automatically into Rosetta and exported to upstream "Ubuntu" also automatically
<carlos> SteveA, with products, we do all manually 
<SteveA> so product maintainers don't get much direct benefit from people translating on ubuntu packages.
<carlos> SteveA, no, only if the translation team sends their changes directly to upstream or upstream uses Rosetta too
<SteveA> i want us to be able to explain this to upstreams and translators
<SteveA> i think this is tricky to understand, at first
<carlos> I suppose we could add that to the same page that Jordi is writting at the moment
* SteveA draws a diagram
<carlos> and add references to it from the Rosetta's about page
<SteveA> okay.  i think i understand the issue
<SteveA> i drew a diagram on a piece of paper.  i'll convert it into a picture, then we can talk about it and see if i understand right.
<SteveA> carlos: will you be here in 45 mins / 1 hour?
<carlos> SteveA, yes, I will be working 3 or 4 hours more
<SteveA> okay
<stub> salgado: Yo
<carlos> stub, dude... which one is your current timezone?
<salgado> stub, https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/fileVuX5R7.html
<carlos> stub, shouldn't you be sleeping atm? ;-)
<stub> carlos: Yes, I should be sleeping. I actually got three hours before waking up again. Bloody jet lag.
<stub> carlos: I'm currently on utc+7
<salgado> stub, does that means we're having changes reverted in rocketfuel?
<carlos> oh, still jet lagged? poor stub :-(
<stub> salgado: Looks like it :-(
<salgado> why aren't these reverted changes shown in the commit message?
<stub> salgado: I'm not sure how to make a distinct validation message per vocabulary - I've only created custom validation messages with custom validators. You might be able to do it by applying a custom validator to the choice field, but that will only work if your custom validator is called before the builtin choice validator (is this item in this set)
<stub> salgado: No idea. Maybe that tree just isn't updating. I'm checking.
<stub> salgado: Oh - that is actually 'normal'.
<stub> salgado: When pqm merges stuff, the working tree appears to be stuffed.
<stub> salgado: However if you copy it and run 'bzr revert' in it, it is fine.
<salgado> eh?
* salgado is lost
<stub> salgado: The tree at chinstrap:/home/warthogs/archives/rocketfuel-built/launchpad/ is fine
<stub> salgado: The 'archive' is all in the .bzr directory, and is fine. The other files are all messed up.
<stub> salgado: If you rsync that tree somewhere, and run 'bzr revert' in the copy it will be 'fixed'.
<stub> salgado: It is possible to just rsync the .bzr directory and run 'bzr revert' and the working tree will all be built
<stub> I think it is a bug
<salgado> this sounds too evil to me. I'd expect that the contents of the files inside chinstrap:/home/warthogs/archives/rocketfuel/launchpad/devel would be the real content I'll see if I branch or merge from there
<stub> salgado: Indeed.
* niemeyer is back..
<salgado> stub, matsubara just tried adding a custom validator to the choice field, but it's called after the builtin one
<ddaa> gah... conflict during merge...
<ddaa> I have to leave for a family appointement... will try to make the merge work when I come back.
<ddaa> niemeyer: feel free to resolve the conflict and submit the merge with [r=SteveA]  :)
<ddaa> feel free not to, if you're busy
<niemeyer> ddaa: I'll do that
<niemeyer> ddaa: Will be nice to go through all the path
<niemeyer> ddaa: Is it pushed in the std location?
<ddaa> warthogs/archives/david/launchpad/branches
<niemeyer> Cool, thanks
<stub> salgado: There is a chance the choice field already supports what you want, although it would involve wading through the Z3 source to discover it. Otherwise, doing this will require upstream work (adding a custom error message to a Choice field if the value is rejected by the given vocabulary)
<shawarma> Is there any way to browse specifications? The spec tab only lists the 10 most recent ones..
<SteveA> carlos: http://people.ubuntu.com/~stevea/rosetta-flow.png
* carlos sees it...
<carlos> and looks at it ;-)
<carlos> SteveA, I think that diagram is more or less what we talked about, yes
<carlos> thanks for it!
* bradb leaves cafe to get lunch, bbl
<SteveA> carlos: okay.  so, the "source" openoffice doc for that is in the same directory
<SteveA> i think the important thing is to make sure we get a feedback loop happening at the top of the diagram
<SteveA> we should import stuff into rosetta, and encourage its use, only if it looks likely we'll get a feedback look happening
<carlos> SteveA, ok, will tell jordi it so he can add the image to the wiki page
<carlos> SteveA, ok, I think that's what jordi was thinking on 
<carlos> and I think it's the more 'polite' solution with upstream
<SteveA> so, practically speaking, we can offer keen translators to translate anything we have an ubuntu package that we build
<SteveA> and any upstream product where the upstream is okay with it
<SteveA> the upstream doesn't have to use rosetta primarily, and doesn't have to use rosetta exclusively
<SteveA> but they must be aware that people are using rosetta to translate their product, and be agreeable to this, and to taking work from rosetta and using it in their product
<SteveA> any specific policy is based on these principles.
<SteveA> does that all sound good, carlos ?
<carlos> SteveA, yeah
<carlos> I think it's a good plan
<SteveA> okay.  please make sure all this gets written on the wiki.  There are three points of view here that we need to take care of -- three kinds of people.
<SteveA> we have upstream product maintainers.  we have package maintainers and language pack builders.  we have translators.
<SteveA> to upstream product maintainers, we can say that we want to help people to translate their products.  we often want to do this anyway for ubuntu, so that we get good translations in ubuntu releases.
<SteveA> but, we'd like to improve the translations that everyone else who uses their product gets too.
<SteveA> if they want to do that, they need to accept translations contributed via rosetta.  here's how....
<niemeyer> SteveA: I think Rosetta is one of the parts that may get easy adoption by upstreams..
<carlos> SteveA, ok
<SteveA> some projects have chosen to make rosetta their main way of managing the translation effort for a product.  if you want to do this, here's how...
<niemeyer> Maintaining .po files by hand is a boring task..
<carlos> niemeyer, specially when we are able to do the integration with bazaar so they just need to merge from a branch.
<SteveA> to translators: if you want to translate something that does not have pot files in rosetta, then if there's an ubuntu package, you can translate that, and have your work get into the next language pack.
<niemeyer> carlos: Uh.. that's a dream..
<carlos> niemeyer, it's planned but not in the next months
<SteveA> to translators: also, you may want to translate "upstream", meaning to translate the latest strings for a particular software product.  To do that, and make the work count, we need to get agreement from the maintainers of the software product that they want to get translations from rosetta.  So, contact the maintainers and say... (supply an example email).  then, if the product maintainers agree, tell the rosetta admins that they can add those pot files 
<SteveA> and po files by doing...
<SteveA> niemeyer: yes, you're right.  it does help a lot.
<SteveA> carlos: let's lay this out, separately for each kind of user, and get an example of what the email could look like to help people with this.
<carlos> ok
<carlos> sounds like a plan
<SteveA> once you and jordi have put this together, let me know and we'll go through it and see how it all hangs together.
<SteveA> as i said at UBZ, i'm making UI and user-facing stuff my main focus now.  this kind of documentation is important, as it helps people see what we're offering, and understand how they can best interact with what we're offering.
<carlos> SteveA, I'm planning to request elmo to create lists.launchpad.net so we can move the launchpad related mailing lists there (rosetta and malone ones)
<carlos> SteveA, and perhaps we should move too wiki.launchpad.canonical.com to wiki.launchpad.net
<carlos> and add those pages there
<carlos> instead of use wiki.ubuntu.com
<salgado> stub, actually, the custom validator is called before the builtin one (value in vocab). the problem is that the call to SimpleInputWidget.getInputValue() will end up calling vocab.getTermByToken(value), and it will then raise a ConversionError("Invalid value", e)
<carlos> SteveA, would that be part of your 'UI and user-facing stuff' ?
<SteveA> carlos: i think we need a place for launchpad user documentation.  this is not the same thing as having the development-related docs.
<carlos> SteveA, so wiki.launchpad.canonical.com and wiki.launchpad.net ?
<carlos> instead of move it?
<SteveA> maybe.  i want to think about this, and discuss it with others
<carlos> ok, I will wait then
<salgado> hey SteveA. any news on that code review?
<SteveA> salgado: i have a problem -- can't read my email
<salgado> ouch. :-(
<SteveA> there's some networking broken, which means the mail server isn't on the network right now
<salgado> SteveA, https://chinstrap.warthogs.hbd.com/~salgado/person-packages.diff :)
<SteveA> okay
<SteveA> what does it do?
<niemeyer> SteveA: .../archives/rocketfuel/launchpad/devel is the one considered the development trunk?
<niemeyer> SteveA: In other words, is that the one we should merge if we want to get code in production?
<salgado> SteveA, put something useful in the person/+packages page. 
<salgado> niemeyer, yes, for both questions
<niemeyer> salgado: Thanks! :)
* niemeyer closes his eyes and asks bzr to merge..
<salgado> niemeyer, you're asking bzr or pqm?
<niemeyer> salgado: bzr.. there are known conflicts.. must fix them first.
<Aiste> hi, I want to translate roundup into lithuanian
<Aiste> or rather I'm more than halway through doing that
<Aiste> s/halway/halfway/
<Aiste> how do I get that translation up into Rosetta?
<matsubara> Aiste: Have you tried https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RosettaFAQ ?
<Aiste> i did in fact
<Aiste> the problem is , that roundup is not there
<Aiste> so I need as your software helpfully explain, to contact someone from rosetta admins and get them to put the relevant po files up there
<Aiste> that is the reason I am here
<salgado> carlos, ^^
<carlos> Aiste, the RosettaFAQ describes the procedure to request an upload
<carlos> salgado, thanks for the ping
<carlos> Aiste, the problem is that we are moving into a policy that we will not add new products unless the maintainers want to use Rosetta so we are sure that the translations are used
<Aiste> carlos: thanks, missed taht bit :)
<Aiste> yeah, i will email Richard Jones about that too
<Aiste> don't worry :)
<carlos> Aiste, ok, thanks!
<Aiste> carlos: an interesting thing is that when I go to launchpad, find roundup there and click on translation
<Aiste> i get a message suggesting that I should ask the Rosetta team to set it up by sending an email to the Rosetta mailing list. You should give them the URL to the Roundup Issue Tracker.pot and .po files. You will be able to start translating once they are imported.
<Aiste> there is no link to the relevant portion of FAQ or anything like  that
<Aiste> quite confusing
<carlos> Aiste, yeah, I will update that page soon, don't worry
<Aiste> ok :)
<Aiste> that is why i did not see the relevant bit of FAQ
<lifeless> ddaa: 
<lifeless> [/home/pqm/archives/rocketfuel/pybaz/devel] 
<lifeless> published_at=sftp://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/home/warthogs/archives/rocketfuel/pybaz/devel
<lifeless> commiters=canonical
<lifeless> ddaa: you are already authorised.
<salgado> SteveA, around?
<carlos> SteveA, hi, around?
<SteveA> carlos:hi
<carlos> SteveA, don't worry I got some problems with tests but I fixed it already. Thanks
<SteveA> ok
<lifeless> SteveA: hows the z3 snapshot progress ?
<SteveA> not started yet
<lifeless> I'm hesitant about ripping up the test runner until thats done. Is there an eta on it? Or is it something I can get the ball rolling on ?
<SteveA> i'll need some help making bzr work for me, unless paramiko / other sftp stuff is up to it.  other than that, it won't take me all that long to do.
<lifeless> ok. so if you can do it at a time that has me awake, we can collaborate on any issues.
<SteveA> okay
* SteveA --> sleep
<lifeless> we should ensure we forward port our bugfixes at the same time
<lifeless> I can definately help with that
<lifeless> night
#launchpad 2005-11-23
<mhz> hi all
<mhz> I have seen some pages and still can't find the place to file a bug
<mhz> https://launchpad.net/malone
<mhz> I want to file a bug related to LaunchPad
<mhz> not to other aps.
<mhz> any hint?
<sivang> mhz: you mean, you want to find a "prodct" per rosetta/malone/etc ?
<sivang> mhz: currently I think, you have to file it just against "launchpad" and assign it to the person who's responsible to the piece of module you are opening the bug against
<mhz> ooooh, ok
<mhz> sivang: when choosong package name, i ge to 'select SourcePackageName'
<mhz> and I get launchpad-integration
<mhz> not just launchpad
<mhz> is it the same?
<sivang> mhz: can you send me a link?
<mhz> sure
<mhz> w8
<mhz> sivang: 1st) https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/+package
<mhz> there, I press choose at Source Package Name
<mhz> and if i understand correctly, I type launchpad
<mhz> then, I only get launchpad-integration
<lifeless> right
<lifeless> launchpad is not packaged.
<mhz> I imagined
<lifeless> so you can't file bugs against it from there.
<mhz> then how do I file a bug related to it?
<lifeless> https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bugs
<mhz> lifeless: yhx
<mhz> thx
<ddaa> lifeless: I sent merge request for sftp://chinstrap.warthogs.hbd.com
<mhz> i was getting dizzy 
<mhz> :)
<ddaa> That has apparently worked for launchpad.
<ddaa> (though there were conflicts)
<lifeless> ddaa: that wont work. it has to be chinstrap.ubuntu.com
<ddaa> Why should it fail for pybaz?
<ddaa> Mh
<ddaa> right, the address for launchpad was on ubunt.com
<sivang> mdz: " Report a bug about A set of Bugs" ?
<sivang> oops
<sivang> that was for mhz 
<sivang> mhz: what's that gotta do with launchpad-integration?
<mhz> sivang: 
<mhz> nothing to do with it
<mhz> sivang:  launchpad-integration
<mhz> sorry
<mhz> sivang:  Bug #4586
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #4586: Many ubuntu related actions/work are not being tracked Fix req. for: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4586
<mhz> LOL!!! Ubugtu
<mhz> good work
<ddaa> bug #1000
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #1000: There are too many bug reports in Malone Fix req. for: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: Rejected http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/1000
<niemeyer> ddaa: Hey
<niemeyer> ddaa: The branch is merged
<niemeyer> ddaa: Just have to send to pqm now
<ddaa> niemeyer: cool what was it?
<ddaa> I'm waiting for the merge here as well, as I just came back (and about to go to deb)
<niemeyer> ddaa: Just simple stuff.. .bzrignore, and harness.py was changed in both places.
<niemeyer> But not in an incompatible way..
<Nafallo> hehe, deb ;-)
* carlos -> bed
<niemeyer> ddaa: How to submit that for pqm?
* niemeyer looks in the launchpad wiki
<ddaa> https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/PQMSetup
<ddaa> the .bzr/parent must be sftp://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/path/to/landing/target and the .bzr/x-pull-data must be set properly to the rsync target (what to merge from).
<ddaa> niemeyer: I must go to bed now.
<ddaa> Thanks. In case you do not manage to do the pqm thing, I'll do it tomorrow first thing.
<ddaa> the postfix configuration is very important
<ddaa> because pqm is so stupid
<ddaa> I set the mail host name here to "allouche.net", and since my login on my workstation is "david", and the authorized user to pqm is david@allouche.net, it works.
* ddaa leaves
<lifeless> heh
<lifeless> I so love ignorance-is-bliss
<bob2> beats a pie in the face
<lifeless> the authorised user comes out of the gpg signature, has nothing to do with the mail config
<lifeless> the mail config is solely for sending the feedback emails.
<lifeless> bob2: :)
* bob2 had problems with feedback from pqm until he realised Sender: really should be able to receive mail
<lifeless> yup
<lifeless> the spec does say that.
<niemeyer> lifeless: Is there any other document explaining the PQM interface?
<niemeyer> lifeless: Also, am I allowed to request merges?
<lifeless> have you completed the PQMSetup instructions ?
* niemeyer is a PQM virgin..
<niemeyer> :-)
<lifeless> if not, then no.
<niemeyer> lifeless: Yes, I did.. but long ago
<lifeless> there is the pqm manual, and source at http://people.ubuntu.com/~robertc/pqm/trunk
<niemeyer> lifeless: And never received an answer from you about my gpg key
<niemeyer> lifeless: So I guess not.
<niemeyer> Heh.. I just removed an old PQM arch tree I had around, thinking "Humm.. at that point Robert must have it under bzr"
<niemeyer> I'm glad to have guessed right :)
<niemeyer> lifeless: So, have you register my gpg key as allowed for submissions?
<niemeyer> registered
<niemeyer> lifeless: Should I resend it?
<lifeless> una momento
<lifeless> whats your key id ?
* Nafallo goes to bed, goodnight all! :-)
<lifeless> niemeyer: you did not include that in your email
<lifeless> nor your fingerprint. tsk.
<niemeyer> lifeless: Well, I included the key itself..
<lifeless> niemeyer: so, what is the key id ?
<niemeyer> 66643A0C
<lifeless> thanks
<lifeless> ok
<lifeless> you are now in the canonical group
<niemeyer> Thanks!
<niemeyer> So, what the merge request URL looks like? sftp://...?
<niemeyer> lifeless: ^
<lifeless> the script should generate it correctly, if your parent is set (to sftp://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/home/w...), and your public copy is set correctly (via x-push-)
<niemeyer> lifeless: I'll create the email by hand..
<lifeless> why ?
<niemeyer> lifeless: I'm not using push (rsync).. my postfix has its own custom configuration..
<lifeless> uhm,. So the push we use is rsync ;). 
<niemeyer> lifeless: And it's more interesting to see how things work by starting that way.
<lifeless> any good postfix config will work correctly, its only broken ones where sender: cannot recieve replies that are problematic.
<lifeless> but up to you.
<lifeless> if you want to fiddle, just use the script 'submit-bzr-merge 'test' gustavo@niemeyer.net'
<niemeyer> lifeless: Will bzr push rsync://... work correctly if there are nested trees?
<lifeless> it onyl pushes the current tree
<lifeless> i.e. it ignores the nested trees.
<niemeyer> Nice
<Burgundavia> how can I delete items on the calendar?
<Burgundavia> and more importantly, should the admin of a group not have complete access over the calendar? (I am getting an permissions error on the doc team calendar)
<lifeless> SteveA: ping
<SteveA> lifeless: hi
<SteveA> lifeless: around?
<carlos> morning
<carlos> SteveA, hi, morning
<carlos> SteveA, I need that someone reviews TranslationUploads implementation
<carlos> SteveA, we need it for dapper import into launchpad
<SteveA> carlos: mail me, and i will do it later today
<carlos> SteveA, ok, thanks
<SteveA> ddaa: hello
<ddaa> Hey SteveA
<SteveA> ddaa: i want to arrange a meeting to talk about bzr launchpad branch stuff, with you and lifeless.  can we do monday morning?
<ddaa> For a relatively late value of morning.
<SteveA> the times available are monday morning or wednesday morning
<ddaa> I'd prefer early afternoon, say 2pm.
<ddaa> That... 1300 UTC
<SteveA> that won't work for lifeless
<ddaa> Then, I can arrange to be there.
<ddaa> monday morning, say, 0900 UTC?
<SteveA> i think 1000 UTC would be okay
<SteveA> shall we say monday, 1000 UTC?
<ddaa> Deal.
<SteveA> okay. i'll mail.
<ddaa> BTW, any news on the asterix-at-DC front?
<ddaa> I'm still for comfortable with chat, but voice as an addition could be nice for this sort of meeting.
<ddaa> * still more comfortable
<SteveA> no news
<ddaa> SteveA: do you have an agenda for the meeting?
<ddaa> I'd like to be able to think a bit about it in advance.
<SteveA> talk about the launchpad / supermirror / bzr end of things
<SteveA> and establish how all the moving parts fit together, and who is responsible for what
<ddaa> Mh... I guess I will figure out what this kind of meeting is about :)
<ddaa> lifeless, SteveA: PQM appears frozen again
<ddaa> Please kick it up or something, that's blocking BranchDataStorage :(
<matsubara> good morning!
<ddaa> Hey matsubara
<ddaa> I saw that you have a merge request in PQM
<ddaa> unfortunately, it has gone catatonic again.
<Wellark> Hi
<matsubara> ddaa: salgado will take care of it, I hope. :)
<ddaa> Apparently Znarl will do. At least he acked my request on #canonical
<Wellark> translation tool for breezy is missing some projects
<Wellark> libgksu and libgksuui
<Wellark> they are included for hoary but not for breezy
<carlos> Wellark, hi
<Wellark> who has the power to add projects to distributions in launchpad?
<carlos> Wellark, I'm a Rosetta developer
<carlos> let me check
<Wellark> thanks!
<carlos> Wellark, is https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+sources/gksu/+translations what you are looking for?
<Wellark> no, it is not
<Wellark> to fully translate the dialog that is shown for example when you launc synaptic you also need libgksuui package to be translated
<carlos> Wellark, sorry, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+source/libgksu1.2/+translations
<Wellark> yeah, and that too :)
<Wellark> so breezy is missing 'libgksuui' and 'libgksu'
<carlos> Wellark, ?
<carlos> Wellark, I gave you already libgksu, right?
<Wellark> oh yeah
<Wellark> that's right
<carlos> Wellark, and the other: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+sources/libgksuui1.0/+translations
<carlos> I will fix the 'review' templates now.
<Wellark> carlos: thank you very much :)
<Wellark> if notice that something else is missing should I just come bugging you here or what?
<carlos> Wellark, file a bug or ping me here
<carlos> anyway, those were not missing, it's just that the navigation is not as good as it should...
<\sh> hmmm...
<Wellark> ok. thanks.
<\sh> did canonical trandmarked launchpad? (the Name?)
<\sh> i'm asking because of launchpad.com ;)
<carlos> \sh, I think they were there before us
<\sh> carlos: I just stumbled across while I was using the wrong tld for launchpad ... but ok
<BjornT> is there any bzr equivalent to 'baz diff $rocketfuel'? i.e only comparing up to the rf revision that is merged into my branch?
<ddaa> BjornT: I do not think so
<ddaa> I can imagine what would be the syntax though
<ddaa> something like "bzr diff --merged $upstream"
<BjornT> ddaa: ok. do you know if i can specify a specific revno when using -r branch:... ? i seem to recall some syntax to specify a revno, but the bzr documentation is somewhat lacking....
<ddaa> Right now, you can examine the log, get the revid of the first nested revision in the latest merge, and do "bzr diff -r revid:$REVID"
<ddaa> oh yes
<ddaa> for a revno, it's just "bzr diff -r $REVNO"
<ddaa> hu... shit it appears that the current packaged bzr cannot specify a branch in diff...
<BjornT> but will that work if i: branch -> hack some -> merge -> hack some more? i.e, i want to see both the 'hack some' and 'hack some more' changes
<ddaa> I think the "bzr diff -r revid:$REVID" thing would work right. The annoyance is that you have to find the revid by hand.
<ddaa> That could be automated, with a "--merged $BRANCH" option that find the latest entry of $BRANCH's revision-history which is an ancestor of the current revision.
<ddaa> Feel free to bounce that idea to the bzr folks.
<ddaa> That should not be a very difficult feature to implement. Probably an afternoon's hack for somebody not familiar with the code.
<BjornT> yeah, i'll do that later, i used it quite often with baz. thanks
<BjornT> yeah, if i'm bored this weekend i might try to implement it myself. it'd be a good way of learning more how bzr works
<gino> hello good morning 
* carlos -> lunch
<stub> That pqm kill doesn't seem to have taken... I'll have a look
<ddaa> stub: thanks
<stub> ddaa: I've run out of things to try. arch-pqm --run appears to be silently doing nothing. Perhaps a lock file somewhere, so it thinks things are still running. But I don't know where it would be.
<stub> ddaa: I think that has clear it (found the log file and a lock file)
<stub> c/clear/cleared
<stub> Or maybe not :-(
<salgado> I can't merge from rocketfuel. always get an "bzr: ERROR: exceptions.IndexError: string index out of range". can this be related to the bzr version?
<ddaa> stub: at least niemeyer's merge request is now off the queue
<ddaa> so, if you hear a huge grinding noise, don't worry, it's just bzr merging the branches patch :)
<bradb> wow
<bradb> it's amazing how re-installing gnome-panel can fix really arcane gnome problems
<bradb> my power cord wasn't properly plugged in last night, so my computer ran out of juice during the night
<bradb> tried logging into gdm, and all i saw was brown
<bradb> lynx'ing to google.ca would give a 400, bad request
<bradb> couldn't even connect to IRC (i.e. trying this through a failsafe gnome term)
<bradb> reinstall gnome-panel, and i am reborn
<zyga_> since launchpad is written in python I'll ask this here
<zyga_> I've installed libapache-mod-python2.4 and I cannot really get past the hello-world test, is this a bug or should I keep googling
<carlos> zyga_, launchpad is not using libapache-mod-python2.4
<carlos> zyga_, we use zope
<carlos> zyga_, anyway, I have a friend that is using Ubuntu's mod-python2.4 without problems
<zyga_> on apache 1.3 or 2 ?
<carlos> so it's not a bug (at least I don't think so)
<carlos> 2
<zyga_> hmm I'm trying this on 1
<zyga_> I keep getting  python_handler: make_obcallback returned no obCallBack!
<bradb> stub: TestRequest doesn't appear to work with browser notifications (e.g. self.request.response.addNotification == AttributeError...this happens in bugattachments.txt, for example, because it tests views). any quick suggestions on a simple way to fix this?
<stub> bradb: We will need to extend it in the same way we needed to extend HTTPRequest to implement the notifications
<bradb> ok
<zyga_> carlos: I also noticed this in my logs
<zyga_> make_obcallback(): could not import mod_python.apache.
<zyga_> make_obcallback(): could not call init.
<stub> bradb: webapp/tests/test_notification might be a help (or not...)
<stub> bradb: In fact, we just might need to make TestRequest adaptable to INotificationRequest
<stub> The MockSession and adapters in test_notification.py can be reused
<salgado> hey SteveA. I replied to your code review, have you seen it?
<salgado-lunch> brb
<SteveA> salgado-lunch: ok.  there's a shipit issue i want to talk about
* salgado delays his lunch
<salgado> SteveA, wanna talk now?
<bradb> stub: thanks for the pointers, I'm looking around the code a bit. elsewhere, will X-Malone-Bug get rolled out on tuesday? it's revno 2835.
<SteveA> bradb: i think it should be X-Launchpad-Bug
<stub> bradb: Yes
<SteveA> when we have the issue tracker with email support, will we have X-IssueTracker-Issue ?
<SteveA> it is silly.  so, we should have X-Launchpad-KindOfThing as the header names to use
* bradb thinks the apps need names, personally :)
<SteveA> i don't disagree
<SteveA> but this way, when the app names change on various whims, we have less software to update
<bradb> i'd hesitate slight to make a change to X-Malone-Bug. it's in an approved spec already, and we don't have any other X- headers for other apps yet, AFAIK.
<bradb> s/slight/slightly/
<SteveA> salgado: do we still have this issue that when people come to shipit they get directed to get a launchpad account, and then don't get guided back to shipit?
<SteveA> bradb: sorry i didn't read the spec sooner
<SteveA> i don't want to have to change this later, when people already have mail filters set
<bradb> SteveA: it's in https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/InitialBugContacts
<salgado> SteveA, yes, we still have this issue
<SteveA> bradb: the header will often contain distro and people and product details.  it should be called X-Launchpad-Bug
<salgado> SteveA, I tried to get you to review https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/ProperSignUpWorkflow at UBZ, but I couldn't as I wrote it in the last days. IIRC, kiko reviewed it
<SteveA> salgado: there's a spec!  that's great.  let me read it...
<SteveA> although, i'll do that code review for carlos first
<bradb> SteveA: ok, i'll change it
<carlos> SteveA, thanks!
<SteveA> salgado: i'd say don't use the referer header.  make it an explicit query string parameter.  i need to think about this a little more though.
<SteveA> can we talk about this a bit later?
<SteveA> bradb: thank you.
<salgado> SteveA, sure
<SteveA> jamesh: what happened to the diffs on https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~jamesh/pending-reviews/ ?
<salgado> SteveA, I can't merge from rocketfuel since this morning. maybe this is not a problem only with me..
<SteveA> carlos: can you get me a diff to review?
<carlos> SteveA, yes
<carlos> just a second...
<bradb> salgado: i have no problem merging from rocketfuel
<bradb> i rsync down the pre-built tree and do a local merge
<salgado> bradb, would you try a merge from sftp://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/home/warthogs/archives/rocketfuel/launchpad/devel?
* salgado will do that on rocketfuel
<salgado> chinstrap, I mean
<bradb> salgado: I'd strongly recommend the pre-built tree option, tbh.
<bradb> i've just sync'd up my two current working trees to my local copy of rf
<carlos> SteveA, sent to your mailbox
<SteveA> thanks carlos
<bradb> salgado: 
<bradb> bradb@oxygen:~/canonical/malone-feedback-messages $ bzr merge sftp://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/home/warthogs/archives/rocketfuel/launchpad/devel
<bradb> SSH id_dsa password:
<bradb> bzr: ERROR: Channel request for unknown channel 1
<bradb> Nothing to do.
<BjornT> bradb: do you know how often the pre-built tree get rebuilt? it doesn't seem to contain the latest patch, which was commited more than 10 hours ago
<bradb> every half hour
<bradb> by the way, by "pre-built" i meant that it has all the dep trees inside it, not that it's "pre-built" with make
<salgado> bradb, are you using bzr from jbailey's repo?
<bradb> yeah
<bradb> just updated
<bradb> about an hour ago
<SteveA> the launchpad team should generally be using the "integration" packages from jbailey
<BjornT> so, who can check what's wrong with the launchpad tree?
<salgado> BjornT, I guess the same person that can check what's wrong with pqm. lifeless 
* BjornT sends an email to lifeless 
<salgado> aha. it failed in rocketfuel too
<salgado> BjornT, https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/file53b1Kj.html
<salgado> BjornT, would you add that to your email too? :)
<BjornT> salgado: yeah, branch fails as well
<BjornT> and pull
<salgado> really? I branched (on chinstrap) this morning and it worked fine. this is weird...
<BjornT> yeah. it could be ddaa's branch that caused this (ddaa: wasn't it something strange with your branch?). branch fails with HistoryMissing
<jbailey> SteveA: The -integration branch isn't tested with abently's bzrtools.  Dunno if that's a concern for you or not.
<SteveA> lifeless has asked that the launchpad team use the integration branch
<SteveA> so we test the latest fixes
<ddaa> BjornT: what with my branch?
<ddaa> It's not landed yet in rocketfuel
<SteveA> can you set it up to run the tests before making the packages, and not make them if tests fail?
<ddaa> AFAIK it's currently the chunk clogging PQM
<ddaa> oh, right everybody is complaining about that ATM
<ddaa> was working for me yesterday... not tried since then.
<BjornT> ddaa: will "Rev 2836: [r=SteveA]  Merging bzr branch support in.." did land, which seems to include your branch
<BjornT> s/will/well/
<ddaa> BjornT: really?
<BjornT> ddaa: yeah
<jbailey> SteveA: That already happens.
<jbailey> SteveA: The only cases where the selftests don't really catch things are when things are compiled on install.
<jbailey> SteveA: A bit of code in something that's not used as part of the build/selftest can kill it at install time.
<SteveA> that's fine then.  thank you
<SteveA> lifeless has a "very conservative" bzr branch that can be used for recovering things if the integration branch screws up
<jbailey> Is it called "releases"? =)
<SteveA> it is releases + special launchpadding love
<jbailey> The dapper archive now has 0.6.2 in it, and I plan to keep it quite up to date.  We could probably ask the backports folks to make sure that it's available for breezy if y'all aren't crazy enough to run dapper. =)
<SteveA> the launchpad folks have a special line in sources.list.  i think that's fine for now.
<SteveA> but, having a recent bzr in backports would be good for getting other folks to try out the recent improvements
<ddaa> BjornT: apparently it has not made it into the rocketfuel-built tree...
<BjornT> ddaa: yeah, which might be because merging/pulling/branching from the rocketfuel tree doesn't work...
<ddaa> Well, bzr log on archives/rocketfuel/launchpad/devel gives that funny IndexError after the log for 2835, and bzr revno there says 2835
<ddaa> I have no idea where your 2836 comes from.
<BjornT> hmm
* BjornT checks again
<BjornT> although, arch-commits says it was merged
<stub> The launchpad tree issue would explain PQM being blocked.
<ddaa> arch-commits?
<ddaa> what's that?
<salgado> ddaa, http://rince.africaninspace.com/mailman/private/arch-commits/
* ddaa has no clue what the email and password should be
<BjornT> ddaa: the arch-commits mailing list
<ddaa> Thanks, I see... I do not think I heard of it before...
<elmo> Kinnison: around?
<Kinnison> elmo: Yes, barely
* Kinnison isn't meant to be working
<Kinnison> but lying in bed is boring
* BjornT heads out for a while
<elmo> Kinnison: ok, it's not urgent, but fyi mawson is down to 5G
<Kinnison> elmo: thanks
* Kinnison wonders what it's up to which is chewwwing disk, it hasn't been doing stuff since UBZ
<elmo> it's got 272G in it's librarian dir
<stub> I can clean that out if nobody needs to access the files in the Librarian
<Kinnison> on mawson? leave the librarian please
<Kinnison> I'll look into it
<Kinnison> stub: I'd rather you used mawson as a test-bed for the librarian GC
<stub> Oh - assumed asuka. Sorry.
<SteveA> Kinnison: and you say "has signed coc" doesn't sound rude!
<bradb> looks like a typo
<bradb> DO YOU ACCEPT THE COC
<Kinnison> SteveA: Not when it's CoC
* Kinnison gets out the tatoo gun and approaches stevea menacingly
* Kinnison has a minor coughing fit halfway and collapses :-(
<SteveA> you threatening to vandalize my existing coc tattoo ?
<Kinnison> naah, just sign it :-)
* SteveA has the entire coc text tattooed...
<bradb> hm, it looks like pqm isn't even accepting new merge requests (i.e. i submitted one a while ago and it's not showing up in the queue)
<bradb> heh
* bradb tries to restrain himself in the cafe
<bradb> only partly successfully
<elmo> argh
<elmo> bradb: pretty please with a cherry on top could malone explain WHY it's mailing me?
<elmo> or bjornt or whoever
<bradb> elmo: because you confirmed your email address and are in some way involved in one or more bugs somewhere.
<bradb> elmo: if you want to delete them, you can filter on the Reply-To
<elmo> bradb: no, dude, I want malone to be useful
<elmo> even bugzilla manages this, AFAICR
<bradb> elmo: the mail you received, what's it about?
<bradb> and to whom is it addressed?
<elmo> http://people.ubuntu.com/~james/tmp/mail.txt
<elmo> (reload, updated)
<elmo> even a simple "You received this email because you're the assignee" or "the maintainer" or "in the CC list" or whatever, would help
<elmo> these mails as they are just make me go "huh? wtf?" every time
* Kinnison agrees with elmo
<bradb> elmo: right, so what appears to be happening is this:
<bradb> Launchpad Admins are subscribed to #1458
<bradb> you are a launchpad admin
<bradb> the lp admin team doesn't have an email address
<bradb> so each member of that team receives a mail individually
<bradb> that's why you get the mail
<bradb> there are various ways we can make this suck less, of course.
<bradb> like, tell you why you're getting the email.
<bradb> elmo: given the context above, how would you prefer launchpad to behave when a change is made on that bug?
<bradb> i'll add the explanation of why you're getting the mail right now
<elmo> b
<elmo> Changed in: Launchpad (upstream) Status: New => Accepted
<elmo> (err, with a newline before Status)
<elmo> I don't know how, but I feel that could be improved.  It's not obvious what "Changed in" refers to, for a start
<elmo> but my main gripe is the "WTH am I getting this", if you're fix that, I'd be happy :)
<elmo> would it be sane to maybe add the short description (or summary or whatever it's called) to the mail?  it'd mean I wouldn't have to fire up a web browser to work out what it's talking about
<elmo> OTOH, maybe some people would find that redundant/annoying
<bradb> the bug "summary" is usually empty for bugs, but i'd agree that the bugmails generally don't contain enough context to figure out how what's going on
<bradb> so, when a comment is made (particularly on an older bug, where one has already removed that thread from their Inbox), one often has to click on the URL in the mail to get enough context to make sense of things
<SteveA> carlos: i send you the first part of the code review.
* SteveA goes to the gym for exercise.
<carlos> SteveA, ok, thanks
<bradb> BjornT: can you think of any reason to not add a signature to every bugmail? (i.e. "-- \nYou are receiving this email because...")
<jblack> Gabriel Neuman: ping
<bradb> aka, gneuman 
<ddaa> SteveA: it looks very much like my branches borked rocketfuel and pqm somehow
<niemeyer> ddaa: Weren't they borked before?
<niemeyer> ddaa: I mean, wasn't it borked before?
<ddaa> before, pqm was borked like a cow with a leg missing
<ddaa> now it's borked like a cow whose brains were shot out using an elephant gun
<niemeyer> Oh, that's quite borked indeed..
<niemeyer> :-)
<ddaa> it's also very untidy
<bradb> at least you have some control over a cow with a leg missing
<gneuman> bradb
<gneuman> sorry
<gneuman> was out
<gneuman> j black
<gneuman> pong
<gneuman> jblack, 
<gneuman> time out..
<jblack> gneuman: I'm here. You're here. Life is good. :)
<gneuman> =] 
<jblack> gneuman: We need to figure out which bzr you're using
<jblack> can you run bzr --version for me?
<gneuman> yes
<gneuman> bzr (bazaar-ng) 0.7pre
* carlos -> out
<carlos> see you
<jblack> Mind if I attach that to your bug, or you attach it?
<gneuman> wahtever
<BjornT> bradb: i think it's a good idea to add signatures to bugmail, i've already started adding signatures to the error messages that the incoming email interface produces
<bradb> ok, i'll do that then on my malone-bugmail-why-the-heck-am-i-getting-this branch
<bradb> BjornT: Is there some doctestumentation I can read that demos what those sigs look like?
<BjornT> bradb: you can look at emailtemplates/no-affects-target-on-submit.txt. but i'm not sure it will be useful, since that is an email you get when actively sending one yourself. general bugmail is different, since you can get it without doing anything.
<bradb> I just wanted to make sure that our footers are consistent
<BjornT> bradb: yeah. feel free to change that footer if you need to.
<niemeyer> Hey, anyone knows who has write access to the shipit FAQ?
<matsubara> niemeyer: maybe salgado
<niemeyer> (ubuntulinux.org/support/...)
<gneuman> niemeyer, perhaps salgado, but he is out
<niemeyer> Ok.. thanks
<salgado> niemeyer, I guess silbs has, and maybe hno73 too
<salgado> (but I'm just guessing)
<niemeyer> salgado: I've mailed Jane.. thanks!
* niemeyer must leave..
<niemeyer> See ya
<thierry> is it normal that I can't request fix upstream for some packages?
<thierry> and I'd like to find every bug filed for lbreakout2 package... where do i go?
<salgado> thierry, why you can't request a fix upstream?
<thierry> salgado : because the package is not in the search list
<thierry> salgado : example here https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/ghextris/+bug/4618
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #4618: [PATCH]  ghextris absolute icon path problem Fix req. for: ghextris (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4618
<thierry> I'd like to get a upstream fix for that but when I want to choose ghextris as upstream package, it's not in the search list
<bradb> thierry: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/lbreakout2/+bugs to answer your second question
<thierry> bradb : thanks
<bradb> thierry: what's "upstream" to you?
<thierry> bradb : well the next release like dapper but if it doesn't make dapper, it will make the next one... you know, the most recent changed package
<bradb> thierry: that's how bugs work by default. i.e. they "slip" between releases if they don't get fixed.
<bradb> when a bug is opened, it can optionally be targeted to be fixed in specific releases of a distribution
<bradb> mainly for things like backporting
<bradb> there's also a forward-looking targeting mechanism: milestones. but before i get ahead of myself, IIUC, the default bug report behaviour does what you're asking.
<thierry> bradb : k but seb128 told me that I should ask for a upstream fix in about all of the bugs I send about absolute icon path
<bradb> thierry: what page are you using to try and request the upstream fix?
<bradb> i.e. what URL
<thierry> the choose menu of this one https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/ghextris/+bug/4618/+upstreamtask
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #4618: [PATCH]  ghextris absolute icon path problem Fix req. for: ghextris (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4618
<bradb> thierry: right, so not every project uses Malone.
<bradb> thierry: if the upstream you're interested in isn't using Malone, you won't be able to request the fix upstream inside Malone.
<bradb> if you don't find the upstream you're interested in on that page, that project is probably not using Launchpad
<thierry> bradb : but it's only about a file in the package... what do I do then? ask a fix in dapper?
<bradb> thierry: you don't have to do anything extra. by default bugs are reported in "the current release". if the developers don't get around to fixing them in the current release, the bugs will "slip" to the next release automatically.
<thierry> cool
<thierry> thanks
<bradb> no prob
<ddaa> Apparently, the problem with rocketfuel ATM is not caused by my data.
<ddaa> I merged my patch into rocketfuel, then pulled on top of the previous revision, and it works.
<ddaa> Or maybe the bug only appears in more convoluted cases.
<ddaa> at least, it's clear that the archives/rocketfuel/launchpad/devel is corrupt.
<bradb> elmo: I have a fix that adds a useful (I hope) footer to the bugmail so I'll merge it the next time a window of time opens up where pqm is accepting patches. The fix will probably not make the cut for this Tuesday's rollout, but next Tuesday's it'll be in prod.
<lifeless> somehow we've got a historymissing exception in lp
<lifeless> fixing
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> brown.freenode.net
<mpt> lifeless, got a minute?
<lifeless> mpt: sure
<mpt> lifeless, I was trying to work out the bzr equivalent of baz diff rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0
<mpt> bradb said it was bzr diff -r branch:/path/to/branch
<lifeless> thats right
<lifeless> except its not
<mpt> but bzr diff -r branch:../archives/rocketfuel/launchpad produces a "no namespace registered" error
<lifeless> :)
<lifeless> branch: gets the tip of the branch
<lifeless> ancestry: is more like what 'baz diff' does, it takes the current merge point instead.
<lifeless> try
<lifeless> bzr diff -r ancestry:/home/mpt/archives/rocketfuel/launchpad
<mpt> lifeless: same again: "bzr: ERROR: No namespace registered for string: u'ancestry:/home/mpt/hacking/archives/rocketfuel/launchpad'"
<lifeless> ancestor sorry
<lifeless> not ancestry
<mpt> ah, that looks like it's doing something
<mpt> perhaps a couple more examples in the diff section of http://bazaar.canonical.com/IntroductionToBzr ?
* mpt gets a null diff
<mpt> thanks lifeless 
<mpt> Now I just need to work out why psycopg is crashing on startup
<CosmoDad> I've just created a launchpad account to contribute to Ubuntu's wiki. My username/password are not accepted, however, although I've finished the account creation process and both inputs are correct
<CosmoDad> the wiki login says "incorrect password", but I'm 100% sure it's correct
<mpt> CosmoDad, so you can log in to Launchpad itself using the same password?
<CosmoDad> mpt: yes I can. launchpad expects email address instead of user name, however.
<mpt> hmmm
<CosmoDad> mpt: I just realized ubuntu wiki wants email as well but labels it "name"
<mpt> yyyyyeah
<mpt> that could be better labelled
<mpt> does it work with your e-mail address? :-)
<CosmoDad> mpt: it does
<mpt> so that's a bug in the design of our wiki installation, then
<mpt> unfortunately I don't know where such a bug should be reported
<CosmoDad> mpt: Me neither. I'll check on that..
<sivang> funny, I got used to calling "name" for the email address :)
<CosmoDad> mpt: thanks for asking me for working launchpad logon. That made me try the email address at the Ubuntu wiki
<CosmoDad> sivang: what do you say for name then? :)
#launchpad 2005-11-24
<sivang> CosmoDad: hehe, well, in real life my name, but around the ubuntu websites, it's always the email :)
<CosmoDad> ;)
<mpt> It's Launchpad, it infects things with awkward-terminology-disease
<mpt> hmm
<mpt> "bzr: ERROR: Local branch is not a newer version of remote branch."
<jamesh> something seems weird: https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~jamesh/pending-reviews/log
<jamesh> HistoryMissing: _Branch(u'/home/warthogs/archives/rocketfuel/launchpad/devel') is missing inventory {pqm@pqm.ubuntu.com-20051117235800-9dcf601f2e4bb0d3}
<mpt> jamesh, I think that's what lifeless was talking about 1h40m ago
<jamesh> looks like ddaa's evil takes-25-minutes-to-merge branch has been merged
<mpt> lifeless, sorry to bother you again, but do you know why I'd be getting the "Local branch is not a newer version of remote branch" error?
<mpt> Does bzr commit automatically push?
<jamesh> mpt: ssh over to chinstrap and run "bzr log | less" in the directory you are pushing to
<jamesh> see if that gives you some ideas
<jamesh> (and check to make sure you are pushing to where you think you are)
<mpt> jamesh, it contains nothing from me
<mpt> the most recent stuff in it is from November 10
<jamesh> mpt: okay.  Does the revision number for the latest log entry in the remote branch exist in your local branch, and have the same log message?
<jamesh> the remote branch needs to be a strict subset of the local branch for the push to succeed
<mpt> jamesh, no, they're different
<mpt> In the remote one, revno 2821 is Kinnison fixing a bug. In the local one, 2821 is me merging rocketfuel.
<jamesh> so how did you push to the remote branch last time?
<mpt> I haven't successfully yet
<jamesh> where are you pushing to?
<mpt> /home/warthogs/mpt/launchpad/smallfixes
<jamesh> so how did /home/warthogs/mpt/launchpad/smallfixes get it's current content if you haven't been able to push to it?
<mpt> because lifeless successfully demoed a push on my machine
<mpt> iirc
<jamesh> you can either (a) push to a different location, or (b) use "bzr push --overwrite" to ignore any changes in the remote copy
<jamesh> if you do (b), make sure there isn't anything that needs to be kept in the remote branch.
<mpt> ok, thanks
<mpt> jamesh, the next problem is right up your alley, it's about gpg
<mpt> when I send to pqm, gnome-gpg crashes with 2 * "gpg: [stdout] : write error: Broken pipe", followed by "iobuf_flush failed on close: file write error"
<jamesh> no idea there, sorry
<jamesh> actually, is the "mail" program installed?
<mpt> ... no
<jamesh> sudo apt-get install mailx then
<mpt> hurrah, that works
<mpt> thanks jamesh
* mpt updates PQMSetup
<mdz> is it normal for a bzr pull to take 2 hours?
<jamesh> mdz: unfortunately yes.
<jamesh> mdz: I usually rsync the checked out rocketfuel tree, and use it to make local working copies or perform merges
<jamesh> http://blogs.gnome.org/view/jamesh/2005/11/17/0 <- this may also help.  The default sftp transport in bzr doesn't do compression
<mdz> jamesh: thanks
<mdz> I don't suppose I should abort my ongoing pull to restart it with openssh-ftp though
<mdz> [============================                  ]  fetch revision 504/819 0:53:59
<jblack> yeah, that first pull is quite expensive. If you keep a branches dir, you can update that pristine version when you like much more efficiently and branch that.
<Kinnison> g/night all
<mdz> jblack: this isn't my first; it's updating a branch I pulled down during UBZ
<beluche> hi folks
<beluche> hello...
<munzir> hi gurs! this is the first time I am here so let me first thank you for this great piece of software
<munzir> now I would like to know how rosetta compares to other tools like pootle or karoutche or ...
<munzir> Hi sirs! I would like to know how rosetta compares to other tools like pootle or kartouche or ...? which one should I choose and depending on what?
<sivang> munzir: personally, I think Rosetta is more comfortable to use then Pootle (Not familiar with kartouch). BUt that's probably a matter of taste.
<munzir> sivang: ok I respect your taste since I have tried none to this minute.
<sivang> munzir: ah :)
<munzir> sivang: now from where do rosetta get the translations and how do they coordinate it with people translating directly upstream?!
<munzir> say I want to translate drupal now to my language which is Arabic what shall I do?
<sivang> munzir: let's see
<sivang> munzir: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RosettaFAQ
<sivang> munzir: let me know if this helps :)
<sivang> munzir: also, https://launchpad.net/products/drupal/+translations
<sivang> munzir: regarding cordinations with upstream, all the translations availabel through rosetta can be xported and reused by uptream people
#launchpad 2005-11-25
<Scorpio> hallo
<Scorpio> I am from Russia
<Scorpio> Tell me about Ubuntu Linux
<Scorpio> please
<Scorpio> m?
<SteveA> Scorpio: try #ubuntu
<SteveA> http://ubuntu.ru/Wiki has stuff on.  i can't read any of it, though
<Scorpio> Thanks
<ddaa> Hi SteveA, doing overtime are you?
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> brown.freenode.net
* mpt wonders why he's not getting tracebacks for production errors
* mpt wonders why he's here when he should be on holiday
* fabbione suddenly notes gpg key 0xF0B27113 and looks at pjc
<fabbione> ops
<fabbione> echan
<Scorpio> hi
<_off> hi
<Edgardoweb> quiero live cd 
<Edgardoweb> dand, ??
<Blejdfizt> No habla Espaol
<munzir> hi gurus, is rosetta open-source? where can I download it?
<munzir> is this question soo difficult? ;)
<Kinnison> We're mostly asleep I think
<Kinnison> Rosetta is not open-source
<Kinnison> It's part of the Launchpad application
* Kinnison -> shopping
<munzir> Kinnison: aha! where can I find how does it compare to other free software like pootle or kartouche?
<munzir> Kinnison: I mean what would convince me to go and buy if I would find similar software that is free?
* munzir wonders ubuntu seems to be the most generous distro and the only one that sends CD's for free and yet they release such a tool for money!!
<munzir> mostly I am missing some history
<sivang> munzir: hi there, did you read the links I sent you last time?
<sivang> munzir: it's all explained there
<munzir> sivang: really? please give it to me again
<munzir> sivang: all I remember I asked you how you compare solutions like pootle to rosetta and you told me you are more comfortable with the later and I decided to try it. but when I go to download i didn't find it. so I am sorry I didn't notice those links you gave me
<munzir> sivang: don't think that i didn't care about your tips ;)
<munzir> sivang: can you just give a hint? maybe I have read it but forgot!
<sivang> munzir: ofcourse :)
<sivang> munzir: all the answers are there
<sivang> a sec
<sivang> munzir: 1) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RosettaFAQ
<sivang> munzir: 2) https://launchpad.net/products/drupal/+translations (for drupal translations)
<sivang> munzir: you might want to pay attention to Question #1 :)
<munzir> sivang: ok thanks I am reading it all carefully now ...
<sivang> munzir: pootle also feels very disoranized to me, but again this is maybe because of a certain way I got used to think 
<sivang> munzir: np :) if you have any questions let me knw, I'd be happy to answer if I CAN
<sivang> s/CAN/can/
<munzir> sivang: still reading but lots of things are clear now. If you have time, I would like if you can take a look at http://www.dotmon.com/kartouche/ and give me how you see it
<munzir> sivang: it's strange that both kartouche and rosetta has a name related to Egyptian hieroglyphic but I love it really
<mahangu> has anybody written a gtk frontend for launchpad?
<sivang> munzir: :)
<sivang> mahangu: I've thought about it, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/launchpad-login-app
<mahangu> sivang, ive written the skeleton of a live support application in perl
<mahangu> irc backend
<mahangu> i thought that launchpad might be a better backend though
<mahangu> i would love to help you on it, if you're open to that
<sivang> mahangu: well, as you can see it's not even a goal for the time being (deferred) maybe for dapper+1 :)
<sivang> mahangu: what's live support application?
<sivang> mahangu: and how does it relate to irc?
<mahangu> sivang, we could release it as a launchpad extension
<mahangu> so other distros that use launchpad can use it
<mahangu> sivang, are you on ubuntu-devel?
<mahangu> mailing list I mean
<sivang> mahangu: yes, I am
<mahangu> sivang, im just sending out an email now
<sivang> mahangu: ok, cool . please include links so I can see that thingy you've done in perl, if it's related :)
<mahangu> sivang, my perl is crappy
<mahangu> im rather embarrased to link that to a list of hardcore devs
<mahangu> :S
<sivang> mahangu: no prob, I Just wanted to try and better understand what you wrote :)
<sivang> mahangu: I don't think my perl is better either :) I am now concetrated on python
<mahangu> sivang, http://cvs.taprobane.org/viewcvs.py/taprobane/hermes/hermes.pl?rev=1.7&view=log
<mahangu> sivang, brb
<mahangu> back
<mahangu_> in rosetta, how can I choose font to translate with?
<sivang> font?
<sivang> you mean, the font which is used to display input text boxes?
<mahangu_> sorry
<mahangu_> i think i missed anything i was told
<mahangu_> stupid wifi timed out
<Bulb> Can I have a little question? I'd like to know if I can somehow specify the priority when reporting a bug. What I want is to create a wishlist item so it does not generate the second email about severity being set to wishlist.
<SteveA> Bulb: you can't do it.  Please file a bug on the 'malone' product, saying that you want to be able to do this.
<Bulb> Ok. Will do.
<Bulb> There seems to be a bug about it already, but it's a bit confusing about what is the desired resolution. So I will file a new one clearly saying "It should be possible to set severity on bug reporting page" and refer to the other one.
<SteveA> ok
<SteveA> although...
<SteveA> is what you want that you can set the priority on the same page, or is the more important thing receiving only a single email notification?
<Bulb> Making it obvious that the severity can be set and indeed should be set. So really setting it on the same page.
<SteveA> ok
<Nafallo> anyone Rosetta here? :-)
<Nafallo> or rather anyone with enough privilegies to nuke a language for me? ;-)
<lifeless> morning
<sivang> morning lifeless , how are you ?
<lifeless> not bad, not bad at all
<sivang> lifeless: did you have any written report of the mini meeting you and SteveA had about testing and stuff? (I recall it was scheduled for Fri 08:00UTC)
<lifeless> no
<lifeless> due to various reasons we ended up just having a phone call
<lifeless> hmm, I might blog some of the salient points today
<lifeless> a thumbnail sketch though..
<sivang> ok
<lifeless> so steve has a number of things bugging him about testing in launchpad
<lifeless> some of which are easier to articulate than others
<lifeless> those are, roughly in order...
<lifeless> its hard to encourage TDD when running the tests is complex, and takes upwards of twenty minutes
<lifeless> it would be nice to have *some* metrics for how well tested we are
<sivang> (sorry, TDD=?)
<lifeless> and would be nice to have a really simple way of writing granular tests that test just one layer of behaviour, which will result in faster execution too.
<lifeless> test driven development
<lifeless> also it seems very hard to get the knack of TDD for programmers.
<lifeless> we need better ways of educating people to do it, and that (again) needs a test suite that is a joy to operate, not an enema.
<sivang> lifeless: Are you in any way  following the paradigm of desining tests first, writing test input, writing code, then write tests - currently?
<lifeless> got a name for that workflow ?
<sivang> lifeless: erm, some would say that it's borrowed off XP ;-) But I'm not sure. That is how we used to do it in one of my previous workplaces :)
<lifeless> (and no, I'm not, nor are we talking about doing that, as it appears to be a slightly broken form of TDD.)
<sivang> well I guess it's more suited at testing XML db datasources which is what I used it against..
<lifeless> the current workflow we *like* people to follow is 'write a test that fails, alter the code so it passes, remove duplication).
<lifeless> which in comparison to your design test, write test input write code, write tests - switches the last two steps.
<lifeless> which is the important thing.
<lifeless> this is important because gives you some nice properties:
<lifeless> your tests define the codes requirements:- actual code can vary wildly and not break.
<lifeless> your tests mean that if code somewhere else in the system changes, any impact on your code is noticed. (as long as you have contract tests too).
<lifeless> and when you have many 10K LOC systems, they are too big to hold in your head. So being able to rely on the system flagging issues is really nice.
<sivang> Granted. As I now see from you that's a deformed way of TDD, it did help us find the most "major" issues (mostly segfaults) right away after a developer gave us his code. We had input ready to stress it, which we carefully crafted months before the actual code was done. This allowed to acutally test each and every code path that the developer had to supply. And that was done by first, feeding the test xml input by hand to the parser, before any automated
<lifeless> that cut off at 'before any automated'
<sivang> testing was done. But I can't say that project was as big as launchpad is :)
<sivang> (I pasted in)
<lifeless> right
<lifeless> so to make that work (months between tests and code), you need a really long pipeline, and no design changes going on
<lifeless> TDD is at the heart of many XP methodologies.
<lifeless> its very agile, because you can literally change the spec on the fly, while writing the code, but you still get solid test coverage.
<sivang> true. Indeed that project was a special case. The documentation was also produced long before the actual spec was implemented. So any changes had to be minor, or deferred for next version which dependend on a new version of the docs. I would routinely design my tests from the already made documentation, which was second stop basing off the spec.
<lifeless> right
<lifeless> I'm not criticing here, just pointing out corollaries.
<lifeless> a common theme that XP methodologies have is that the 'spec' should be very small, lightweight and written by the customer within a couple of weeks of the code being written
<lifeless> that sort of process does not give you the long pipeline that you were working with, which is why the testing methodologies have to be different too
<lifeless> mdz: so hows dapper ?
<mdz> lifeless: tame
<lifeless> mdz: I'd like to run dapper all the way through, to give you good feedback ..
<mdz> we haven't dropped any big bombs yet
<lifeless> do we have any planned ?
<mdz> yes
<sivang> mdz: what like?
<sivang> (I'm upgrading as we speak)
<mdz> sivang: hardware-detection, hardware-activation, network-magic, etc.
<mdz> you were there at UBZ
<sivang> hardware-activation will be interesting :)
<lifeless> yah, but did not get to those bofs ;)
<lifeless> mdz: so am I crusing for a world of pain if I run dapper all the way through? how rough a ride will it be do you think?
<mdz> lifeless: it'll be a cakewalk compared to breezy
<mdz> but the usual development branch caveats apply
<lifeless> well
<sivang> well, those are usually manageable unless it's some X breaker issues, or kernel patches that had gone bad I guess
<lifeless> I'm used to run sid ;)
<lifeless> but breezy was scarey
<sivang> lifeless: I also used sid for some time before I switched to Ubuntu, and yes, even by my experience, ubuntu seemed (mostly in hoary) comapred to what I Had known with sid.
#launchpad 2005-11-26
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> brown.freenode.net
<Alinux> hello, someone who speaks italian?
<Alinux> or can help me :)
<jamesh> I don't speak italian, but may be able to help you
<Alinux> ;)
<jamesh> what is the problem?
<Alinux> jamesh, I'm georgian translation team administrator... but I can't understan why I can't validate a translation... from rose ---> to green color
<jamesh> Alinux: that's one area I'm not so familiar with :(
<Alinux> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+lang/ka
<jamesh> Alinux: if you wait a while, carlos and jordi should come online
<jamesh> alternatively you could ask on the rosetta mailing list
<Alinux> and some breezy applications, are not checkable in dapper translation list...
<jamesh> Alinux: iirc, the green colour is stuff that gets imported from the packages
<Alinux> jamesh, do you know what's initial ubuntu installer package name?
<jamesh> Alinux: the colour should change automatically once the translations get rolled out in language packs
<jamesh> debian-installer, maybe?
<Alinux> mmm
<Alinux> I don't know from where I can import this application.
<Alinux> launchpad is quite confused for me :)
<Alinux> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+source/nautilus/+pots/nautilus/ --- here for example....all translations are green...and georgian is not included...
<Alinux> I can't understand the reason.
<jamesh> Alinux: do you have georgian selected as one of your preferred languages?
<Alinux> yes of course
<jamesh> https://launchpad.net/rosetta/prefs <- if you have it selected here, Georgian will always be displayed in the list of translations, even if there are zero translations
<jamesh> e.g. on the URL you listed, "English (Australian)" is listed for me, even though there are no translations
<Alinux> I know this I have 3 prefered languages...
<Alinux> I'm talking about general translations... I can't see general resultats... almost 98% of translations are colored green.
<Alinux> but georgian is not. :(
<Alinux> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+translations here for example
<Alinux> http://l10n-status.gnome.org/gnome-2.14/ and what's about this? should I translate here too?
<Alinux> jamesh, by the way tnak you for replying :)
<stub> spiv: You back on board or still sick?
<spiv> stub: I'm back.  Hmm, I guess I should've mailed about that.
* stub shrugs
<spiv> I see you've got more LibrarianGarbageCollection code, and a librarian bug/feature for me :)
<spiv> (updating last accessed)
<stub> Yup ;)
<jamesh> spiv: if you have some time, could you look at my ValidatingSignOnlyGpgKeys branch?
<jamesh> spiv: the large line count on the pending-reviews/ page is due to deleting unneeded copies of some PGP keys
<spiv> jamesh: Ah :)
<spiv> jamesh: Is there any particular reason your bugzilla-import branch is unreviewed, btw?
<jamesh> spiv: no.
<jamesh> no one has reviewed it
<jamesh> spiv: I added diffstat output to the tops of the diffs too, btw
<spiv> Oh, nice.
<spiv> That was a good idea!
<jamesh> I'll add the "diff -p" output once https://launchpad.net/products/bzr/+bug/4047 gets fixed
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #4047: bzrlib.diff.show_diff() can't send output to a file when using external diff Fix req. for: bzr (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4047
<zerokarmaleft> hello
<jamesh> spiv: thanks for the review
<jamesh> hi zerokarmaleft 
<zerokarmaleft> wow, rosetta looks like an awesome for translations
<jordi> meh
<jordi> missed the georgian guy.
<lifeless> SteveA: meeting time ?
<SteveA> lifeless: not sure... my appointment .txt file is on my laptop, which i'm currently having some problems with
<lifeless> ah
<lifeless> 1000 UTC I thought
<SteveA> for... ?
<lifeless> you me and ddaa
<lifeless> re bzr pipeline
<SteveA> ah, yeah
<SteveA> i'll check my email
<lifeless> what happens on your laptop ?
<ddaa> Thought it was in 1h as well.
<SteveA> i wake it up from sleeping.  i've changed physical location, so i reconfigure the wireless: iwconfig eth1 essid any
<SteveA> then i say dhclient eth1
<SteveA> then it suspends
<lifeless> rotfl
<SteveA> it was doing it at UBZ too
<lifeless> dmesg have anything interesting ?
<SteveA> it happens only sometimes, so i'm trying to keep it in that state until someone turns up who can help debug it
<lifeless> (and why do you not use ifup/ifdown ?
<SteveA> no, nothing interesting in dmesg
<lifeless> what about daemon.log ?
<SteveA> haven't checked daemon.log
<ddaa> "User try to use me. Oh No! Going back to sleep."
<lifeless> SteveA: have a look now ?
<SteveA> ifup / ifdown means i'd need to edit /etc/network/interfaces
<ddaa> "to disable this feature, run 'echo 0 > /proc/sys/acpi/lazy_lemming'"
<SteveA> yeah, if i can get it to remain awake long enough :-)
<lifeless> SteveA: no it does not
<lifeless> for example, this is my config from interfaces for TELUS:
<lifeless> -----
<SteveA> in any case, i'm pretty sure that ifup / ifdown has the same effect
<lifeless> iface telus inet dhcp
<lifeless>         wireless-mode managed
<lifeless>         wireless-essid TELUS
<lifeless> -----
<lifeless> then after sleep when we were there I did:
<SteveA> how does it know that's eth1?
<lifeless> 'sudo ifdown eth1 && sudo ifup eth1=telus'
<SteveA> aha
<lifeless> so, anything interesting in daemon.log ?
<SteveA> i need to be in a meeting now...
<SteveA> so, i'll look a little later
<lifeless> yes, with me - is it not 1010UTC ?
<lifeless> oh
<lifeless> right, 50 minutes
<ddaa> I think it's 0910UTC
<lifeless> see you both then :0
<carlos> morning
<SteveA_> lifeless, ddaa: i'll be with you in 5 mins, just concluding this meeting
<lifeless> k
<SteveA_> ddaa, lifeless: i'm ready
<ddaa> here or #canonical-meeting?
<lifeless> the latter I think
<SteveA_> think marius may have worked what's up with the laptop, at least vaguely
<ddaa> join #canonical-meeting
<ddaa> gr
<SteveA_> i still had pitti's 0telus connection script in the if-up scripts
<lifeless> heh
<SteveA_> it is possible that was running synchronously with acpi stuff
<SteveA_> and acpi scripts got confused about it timing out etc.
<zkl|laptop> what's the distinction b/w "used elsewhere" and "suggested elsewhere" on rosetta?
<carlos> zkl|laptop, used meand that the string is being used already as a valid translation
<carlos> zkl|laptop, suggested is that someone added it as a suggestion but that someone should review it before it's used
<SteveA_> to the FAQ with that!
<carlos> so the 'used' one would be better
<carlos> I think we have it already...
<SteveA_> even better ;-)
* carlos checks
<jordi> hmm
<jordi> we don't
<jordi> ?
<jordi> I will DO IT
<carlos> no, it's not
<carlos> jordi, cool ;-)
<carlos> jordi, are you already back at home?
<jordi> yes
<jordi> SteveA_: where are logs of lp meetings?
<zkl|laptop> thanks carlos 
<jordi> carlos: even better
<jordi> I actually have ADSL at home
<jordi> dude, I can do work at home.
<SteveA_> jordi: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/launchpad-current.html
<jordi> I feel useful at nights again
<SteveA_> are launchpad logs in general
<SteveA_> i mailed a summary of the last launchpad meeting out to the launchpad list last week
<carlos> jordi, ;-)
<SteveA_> and i'll take corrections, and post it on the wiki later today
<WaterSevenUb> hey
<WaterSevenUb> is it possible to get a list of all the teams in one page? with summary info of pages like https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-l10n-pt/
<WaterSevenUb> ?
<zkl|laptop> carlos, if used elsewhere translations are valid, then why aren't they showing up as messages that have already been translated on launchpad?
<carlos> WaterSevenUb, https://launchpad.net/rosetta/groups/ubuntu-translators
<carlos> zkl|laptop, because are valid in another package, that does not means that will be always valid for other packages
<WaterSevenUb> thanks
<jordi> SteveA_: oh, I see the summary now
<matsubara> good morning!
<jordi> After the meeting, Steve and Carlos talked through the issue in detail, and
<jordi> came up with an explanatory diagram and a policy explained from the point of
<jordi> view of each of the main actors: translators, upstream maintainers, package
<jordi> maintainers.
<jordi> I need this diagram to write the wiki page
<zkl|laptop> carlos, ok i see, these xchat2 translations i'm looking at are also used in xchat-gnome
<carlos> jordi, didn't I send you it??
<carlos> hmmm
<carlos> sorry, I thought I did
<zkl|laptop> and all i have to do is verify that the translation is still valid
<carlos> jordi, people.ubuntu.com/~stevea/rosetta-flow.png
<carlos> jordi, in the same directory you have also the oo.org2 document that SteveA did to generate that image
<jordi> hmm
<jordi> I think this deosn't help me establish a policy regarding non-ubuntu translations
<jordi> I'll draft and ping you two so you have a look
<lifeless> jamesh: ping
<jamesh> lifeless: pong
<lifeless> calendar foo
<lifeless> did the urls move ?
<jamesh> no
<lifeless> also, why does it ask me if I want to subscribe to my own calendar ?
<carlos> jordi, ok
<jamesh> that's a bug I need to fix
<lifeless> jamesh: is there a bug # or should I file one ?
<SteveA_> jordi: there was the diagram, which helped me understand the whole system.  but then, there was some policy that carlos and i discussed.
<jamesh> lifeless: there is a bug #, but I don't have it handy
<lifeless> jamesh: webcal://launchpad.net/people/lifeless/+calendar/+icalendar <- is that right ?
<jamesh> that should work
<SteveA_> jordi: the policy is quite conservative.  what we should do is to take that policy, and then work out how we can improve it in order to get more upstream stuff imported without annoying translators or upstreams.
<SteveA_> carlos / jordi: do you have a copy of what carlos and i discussed last week?
<carlos> SteveA, I do
<SteveA_> has jordi seen it?
<carlos> not yet, I'm preparing it to send it, I thought I did it already....
<lifeless> night all
<jamesh> /me wonders where his pqm success/failure message is
<carlos> jordi, sent
<lifeless> jamesh: its still running
<jamesh> lifeless: ah.  I saw it had disappeared from http://pqm.ubuntu.com/
<lifeless> it'll be mirroring I think
<lifeless> mmm. dapper has ssh NICE - the auto controlmaster stuff
<lifeless> ok, really gone. Night
<SteveA_> hi niemeyer 
<niemeyer> Morning!
<SteveA_> lifeless, ddaa and i had a chat this morning about the bzr / imports related stuff
<SteveA_> i want to go for lunch shortly.  can you, ddaa and i meet up later, in a few hours, to talk about the same stuff?
<niemeyer> Of course
<niemeyer> Would be very nice
<SteveA_> that's great
<niemeyer> What time?
<SteveA_> it is 1144 UTC now
<SteveA_> ddaa is off getting a train ticket or something
<SteveA_> i think he'll be back soon.  so, shall we say 1400 UTC?
<SteveA_> 2h15 from now
<niemeyer> That's 12h here..
<niemeyer> Ok, deal. :)
<SteveA_> ok, great
* SteveA_ --> lunch
<jordi> carlos, SteveA_: got it
<cprov> jordi: hi, have you looked at CodeOfConductTranslation ? are you happy with that ?
<jordi> cprov: haven't had time yet. Let me have a look
<cprov> jordi: right
<jordi> cprov: for the outstanding bits, I meant if signing the Brazilian version has the same value as signing the original, English version
<jordi> jdub said it should, IIRC.
<cprov> jordi: yes, so do I, apart of the technical issues, do you think that organizing CoC by version and available/official translation would be fine ?
<jordi> yes
<jordi> I'm wondering if it should be extended for other possible docs though
<sivang> jordi: I have a translated version of the CoC to hebrew, let me know when and where to put it
<jordi> imagine we end up with a document like the CoC, but launchpad oriented, not ubuntu oriented.
<jordi> sivang: ok
<jordi> sivang: so it looks like the labour party could even win the elections
<jordi> that would rock a lot
<sivang> jordi: in here? :)
<jordi> sivang: in .il, yes
<cprov> jordi: uhm, I don't know, personally I think it will be scary to convince the spec approver 
<sivang> jordi: unimanginably nice, Prim Minister is leaving his original party to join the labour :)
<jordi> cprov: my second concern in the spec comes from translation teams consisting of 1 or2 persons
<jordi> which might produce a really bad translation
<jordi> cprov: so maybe, you should have a revision for translations
<jordi> ie, CoC 1.0
<jordi> and Coc-ES 1.0-1
<jordi> sivang: Sharon? No, he's creating his own party
<jordi> I hope he's not joining the labour party at least :)
<siretart> is gina the girl who is importing bugzilla bugs to malone or katie sourcepackages to soyuz?
<cprov> jordi: could be, both produce the same practical result, isn't it ?
<jordi> siretart: gina is katie's young sister.
<siretart> jordi: oh. who is she doing? ;)
<jordi> siretart: katie was doing archive work
<sivang> jordi: he's going to have his own party, but probably would "join" or go together with the labour, or for sure with same goals. He already has many followers and surprised his original party with steps he tooks towards stablilization
<jordi> now it's going to be gina. :)
<siretart> jordi: I had a look at the source of dak ;)
<jordi> cprov: if revision 1 of CoC-ES has a horrid mistake nobody noticed, you can do 1.0-2 without bumping the real version number
<jordi> so the version number stays in sync with the English CoC
<cprov> jordi: siretart: gina is a simple dak -> launchpad  model importer
<jordi> siretart: oh. good.
<jordi> You found elmo's harem
<sivang> jordi: He gets less and less accepted in the right wings due to what he did, but the amount of resistance seems to be dropping which is nice :-) he belives he has enough supporters to go alone
<jordi> cprov: I thought it was like a rewrite of dak/katie
<jordi> nod
<cprov> jordi: the 'official' field (workflow) should avoid horrid mistakes like that, but your idea might be worth, let me think 
<jamesh> siretart: bugzilla-import.py is the one that will be importing bugzilla bugs ;)
* jamesh obviously has no imagination
<sivang> cprov: from what I understood from kiko, it's a mere source tar.gz's imported that just arranges it nicely for launchpad to consume ? 
<jordi> cprov: in some cases, only one person or two will do the translation and correct it, if it's a samll team. If a few months later someone a lot more clued finds there's a horrid translation and it's set on stone, it'd be quite bad not to be able to change it.
<cprov> jordi: not really, it's more like part of LP model is a rewrite of dak (they are not the same, it's not official, it's an analogy) and gina handle the differences  
<cprov> jordi: right, I will think about this use-case, you're right we should be able to handle later fix in the workflow 
<jordi> cprov: ok
<cprov> sivang: true, you have a simpler and nicer understanding
<sivang> cprov:  If I didn't have the power of reduction at my disposal, I would have been so lost .... and launchpad is a big thing :)
<cprov> sivang: gina allows LP data model to offer similar functionality we have in dak
<cprov> sivang: indeed 
<sivang> cprov: are source pkgs stored as blobs in the db?
<cprov> sivang: no, we have Librarian for that 
<cprov> sivang: https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/Librarian
<sivang> cprov: server.tac is the Librarian code right?
<cprov> sivang: Librarian Server code, pretty much 'yes'
<cprov> sivang: twisted based web server associated with a customized uploader server (RD/WR solution)
<sivang> cprov: RD/WR?
<Kinnison> read/write
<cprov> sivang: sorry, no abreviations, I suck ... read/write
<sivang> cprov: oh, you could then use R/W
<cprov> cprov: yes, old electronic world vicious, hope it's clarified    
* carlos -> lunch
<sivang> cprov: lol -> http://librarian.launchpad.net/
<sivang> cprov: droids?
<Kinnison> sivang: it's a star-wars quote
<sivang> Kinnison: ah, suck to be on the douglas adam's camp on not on Lucas's :)
* Kinnison grins
<sivang> the latter seems to gain so much popularity lately
<sivang> Kinnison: how are you?
<Kinnison> tired but not so ill :-)
* Kinnison is back at work today
<Keybuk> sivang: ?!  what's dna got to do with anything?
<Kinnison> Keybuk: if all your cultural references are dna based, then you won't recognise lucas quotes
<Keybuk> such a person would be very worrying indeed
<sivang> Keybuk: I think it would be nice if that page would say "I can tell you the answer, but you're not going to like it" :)
<cprov> sivang: aha, the depressed robot 
<sivang> and besides, dna was british, doesn't that give him any favor over Lucas ? ;=)
<Kinnison> Nope, because the librarian was written by australians :-)
<Keybuk> the Star Wars movies were filmed in Britain too
<sivang> cprov: deep thoughts as well :)
<jordi> Keybuk: if I have bind removed, conffiles remain, and bind9 installed, I assume purging bind will leave my precious conffiles alone, even if they are shared, right? :)
<cprov> sivang: yes, yes ;)
<Keybuk> jordi: those conffiles that are owned by bind9 will be purged
<Keybuk> there's no such thing as "shared" conffiles
<jordi> Keybuk: how do I purge bind without losing my bind9 files then?
<Keybuk> "don't"
<sivang> hehe
<jordi> sucks
<Nafallo> purge != remove :-)
<Keybuk> purge = remove conffiles
<Keybuk> if you want to remove bind9 without removing conffiles, use "remove"
<jordi> Keybuk: but there's another package installed which also has those same conffiles registered
<Keybuk> no there isn't
<jordi> Keybuk: I want to remove bind
<jordi> not bind9
<jordi> bind is removed, bind9 is installed
<Keybuk> ah, ok
<Keybuk> sorry, misread that
<Keybuk> bind9 should own its conffiles
<Keybuk> so purging bind should work fine
<jordi> ok
<jordi> that was scary
<Keybuk> there used to be a bug eons ago where bind9 wouldn't own most of them
<Keybuk> so depending _when_ you installed bind9, it may not work ;)
<jordi> and you sounded so confident it should get blown up
<jordi> 1 week ago :)
<Keybuk> ok, that's fine
<Keybuk> for some reason, I read that you wanted to purge bind9 and have bind's conffiles that it also owned remain
<jordi> hehe, no
<Keybuk> if bind9 replaces bind, then bind9 will own the conffiles
<Keybuk> (you can check with dpkg -S)
<jordi> it went ok
* sivang is playing with zope's HEAD
* Nafallo hits the shower
<SteveA_> ddaa: hello
<SteveA_> niemeyer: hello
<niemeyer> SteveA: Pong
<ddaa> SteveA_: pong
<SteveA_>  #canonical-meeting please
<buntux> hi folks :)
<buntux> are ubuntu cds really free?
<SteveA_> yes
<SteveA_> you can get them sent to you from shipit.ubuntu.com
<SteveA_> and you can copy and modify them as you wish
<buntux> free? no money?
<SteveA_> it is possible that your countries customs office will charge some money for you to receive the CDs
<buntux> u-n-b-l-i-e-v-ab-l-e !!!
<SteveA_> but there is no charge from canonical to send you ubuntu CDs
<SteveA_> just to to shipit.ubuntu.com and ask for some
<buntux> got some friends and family, would my asking for 40CDs be satisfied?
<SteveA_> i expect so, if you know 40 people who could use the CDs
* Kinnison got 20 CDs
* Kinnison gets 20 CDs each time
<Kinnison> and regardless of how much I try to give them away, I always end up with a few spare
<Kinnison> so be careful ordering 40
<buntux> ok, anyway, i'll order 20 and tell'em to burn copies for themselves :)
<Kinnison> buntux: good idea
<stu1> That was fun - laptop would wake up and immediately sleep again :-(
<SteveA_> mine did that 
<SteveA_> do you still have the 0telus connection script from UBZ in there?
<stu1> Nope - never used it
<stu1> Had to power cycle the thing
<stu1> Ahh.... there appears to be an acpi update today
<stu1> Might fix it
<SteveA_> every time i do an acpi update, the next suspend is screwed
<bradb> lifeless: my bzr merge (now trying it on two different local branches) has been sitting like this:
<bradb> bradb@oxygen:~/canonical/malone-initial-bug-contacts $ bzr merge ../launchpad-upstream/
<bradb> [=                                             ]  fetch revision   4/188 0:02:41
<bradb> for the last 10-15 minutes. is that normal?
<bradb> 28415 bradb     25   0  123m 115m 2908 R 49.9  9.2  10:27.06 bzr                                                  
<bradb> 28514 bradb     25   0  100m  93m 2908 R 49.9  7.4   4:21.57 bzr 
<ddaa> bradb: you're just feeling the love from my branch
<ddaa> it's a nasty one, because it fills a bunch of ghosts.
<ddaa> bad news: you will just have to wait
<ddaa> good news: it's a one off
<bradb> ddaa: ok, thanks
* bradb feels the love
<ddaa> Brutal Love.
<ddaa> Red Red Love?
<cprov> does anyone know how to fix this error in LP + pgsql-8.0 : 14:46:55 WARNING No permissions specified for [u'"public"."plpgsql_validator"(oid)']  ?
<niemeyer> cprov: Adding a line for it on security.cfg?
<cprov> niemeyer: I'm affraid it isn't that simple. Anyway if it's a LP issue I will bug stub, then he can decide
<cprov> niemeyer: tks 
<cprov> stub: ohh, you couldn't arrive in better time. I was talking about you
<stub> I was crashing my laptop :-(
<cprov> stub: hope you have time & hardware to take a look at bug # 4697 about pgsql-8.0 warning 
<cprov> stub: not that urgent, anyway
<stub> That is just a one line fix to security.cfg
<bradb> hm, I've been waiting on bzr for an hour so far
<ddaa> bradb: that does sound like too long...
<cprov> stub: niemeyer suggested the same, if you think it's sane I'm happy you fix it when you have time, as I said, it's not urgent.
<ddaa> bradb: are you pulling through sftp?
<SteveA_> bradb: when you're having problems with bzr, mail robert, and be as detailed as possible about what you are doing.  cc me.
<bradb> ddaa: it is making progress though (at 140/188 and 66/188, respectively)
<stub> cprov: I'll land it
<bradb> ddaa: nope, locally
<ddaa> bradb: here, when I merged my branch into rocketfuel, locally, it took about 40 mins.
<cprov> stub: thanks
<ddaa> On my fearsome Mobility 1.7GHz
<bradb> right, that sounds about right then, because i'm doing two at once
<bradb> the only get 50% CPU each!
<ddaa> reweaving is slow
<SteveA_> and you're splitting your disk cache in half
<ddaa> that kind of stuff ought not be written python
<SteveA_> you might be a lot better running them serially
<ddaa> SteveA_: that's not really i/o intensive, I think.
<SteveA_> pyrex... ?
<ddaa> I think that would help, yes.
<SteveA_> would be interesting to see some profiler output
* SteveA_ --> exercise
<bradb> presumably bzr merge knows how to resume if I Ctrl-C? I'm afraid to learn this lesson the hard way.
<ddaa> but OTOH, reweaving is not something that occurs normally. It's largely a artefact of baz2bzr.
<ddaa> bradb: yes, SIGINTing _should_ be safe.
<bradb> ok :)
<ddaa> but you can also SIGSTOP :)
<bradb> ah right, /me brainfarts
<ddaa> just be if you do that, that will hold the branch lock.
<ddaa> * just be aware
<bradb> yeah
<bradb> seemed to resume ok after a Ctrl-C, but i restarted the proc and ctrl-z'd just to feel a bit more fuzzy
* ddaa does vulcan eyebrow
<carlos> ddaa, is there any plan to improve the 'bzr push' performance?
<ddaa> carlos: well, AFAIK the current bzr push is a rsync hack...
<carlos> ddaa, usually, I'm using rsync because is much more faster...
<ddaa> it's not even a real push
<carlos> ddaa, but takes ages!
<carlos> rsync is much more faster
<ddaa> ha, looks like real push has landed then :)
<ddaa> well, all the network pain is planned to be fixed yes
<ddaa> but i'm not following bzr devel closely nowadays, as you can see.
<carlos> ddaa, I'm not talking about network push....
<carlos> las Thursday I did a local push
<carlos> s/las/last/
<ddaa> ha, never did that :)
<carlos> and it took more than 30 minutes
<ddaa> all I can say, is "if it's painful, they probably plan to fix it".
<carlos> ;-)
<bradb> Did somebody (attempt to) remove the the lib/canonical/arch directory?
<bradb> https://launchpad.net/products/bzr/+bug/4700
<ddaa> bradb: It might have been removed as part of my branch.
<bradb> ddaa: is there a lib/canonical/arch dir in your working tree?
<ddaa> nope
<bradb> ok
<ddaa> I zapped it.
<ddaa> Bunch of cruft.
<ddaa> Was nice to rm it to oblivion :)
<ddaa> mh... I guess you had some .pyc left there...
<ddaa> The output indeed looks confusing
<carlos> bradb, I did
<carlos> bradb, I got some conflicts because the .pyc prevented to remove it
<carlos> but that's all
<elmo> lifeless: ?
<carlos> mental note... read the answers before write anything....
<bradb> carlos: i was just asking who actually bzr rm'ed it, just to confirm before i blew it away.
<carlos> bradb, anyway, the history has it so it should not be a problem ;-)
* bradb & # lunch
<Alinux> hello, why my "rose" translation don't become green?
<carlos> Alinux, because the maintainer needs to download it and include with his/her package so Rosetta detects that it was included upstream
<carlos> jordi, a new entry for our FAQ....
<Alinux> thank you carlos...
<Alinux> and how often he do this?
<Alinux> and where I can find the list of basic gnome packages, to translate firs the main things... interface etc...
<Alinux> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+lang/ka
<Alinux> and the best way to import .po files from breezy to dapper?
<WaterSevenUb> carlos, some translators would like to see indication of which package comes from main, universe, etc... is that feature planned?
<WaterSevenUb> carlos, also they would like to see if some work is being reused upstream or not... (remember, just in a user perspective)
<carlos> Alinux, unfortunatelly, that depends on the Ubuntu maintainers so it's not automated at all
<carlos> Alinux, about breezy -> dapper... we were planning to do the import automatically, but we had a small bug that added new translations to dapper before we had it ready....
<Alinux> so I ust import everything automatically?
<Alinux> manualy
<carlos> WaterSevenUb, if it comes from main, universe, etc... will be noted as soon as we start using launchpad to handle Ubuntu developement
<Alinux> i mean.
<WaterSevenUb> carlos, also... 2 and 3 points in http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/rosetta-users/2005-November/001032.html
<jordi> carlos: yeah
<carlos> WaterSevenUb, usually, if it's gree, is because upstream are using the translations (either upstream like GNOME, Debian or directly the Ubuntu source packages)
<jordi> I want to write this stuff in an hour ro so
<carlos> jordi, ok, thanks
<carlos> Alinux, what ever is best for you. Anyway, in the next three months we will have an easy way to reuse the translations from other releases with a specific review interface
<Alinux> carlos, so there will be a new version of rosetta in the future? more intuitive and flaxible?
<carlos> Alinux, Rosetta is a moving system, we are adding new features all time
<carlos> but sometimes are internal features and you don't see them
<carlos> but I work full time on Rosetta
<Alinux> carlos, and where can I find some howtos, guides and this sort of stuff?
<carlos> Alinux, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Rosetta and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RosettaFAQ
<carlos> Alinux, if you don't find your answer there
<carlos> ask me or jordi and we will add it 
<WaterSevenUb> carlos, in breezy it was a madness to notice that templates were changing without warning for translators worried with that specific  template
<Alinux> and a very stupid question :) Who is Rosetta? Someones girlfriend's name?
<carlos> is better if you ask jordi, but if he's not around, ping me
<jordi> see the FAQ :)
<WaterSevenUb> carlos, so a subscription service would be great.... no?
<carlos> WaterSevenUb, we have a spec for the subscription feature, but not implemented yet and I don't think it will be implemented in next three months...
<carlos> WaterSevenUb, https://launchpad.net/products/rosetta/+spec/translation-subscriptions
<WaterSevenUb> carlos, subscription feature for template changes and also translation changes?
<WaterSevenUb> ok
<carlos> Alinux, https://launchpad.net/products/rosetta/+specs <--- There you have many documentation about the way Rosetta works
<carlos> but it's too technical
<Alinux> ;)
<WaterSevenUb> carlos, template changes.... so how about if a product is 100% translated and someone goes there and by accident changes something... the other translator will not be allowed to subscribe to that kind of changes...
<carlos> WaterSevenUb, if the spec does not fits your requirements, please, file a bug report and we will try to improve the spec
<Alinux> and where I can find a basic gnome-ubuntu packages list... the main packages I mean... to work with them fist of all.
<carlos> WaterSevenUb, anyway, let me read the spec, I don't remember all the details
<WaterSevenUb> carlos, hhmm I'm confused. This Use Case Paul is the French Ubuntu translator for Evolution. seems to be what I was talking about, isn't it?
<carlos> Alinux, we don't have such list yet...
<carlos> WaterSevenUb, yes, please, file a bug report referencing the spec and noting that is lacking a solution for that use case
<Alinux> carlos, but I think it will be very useful, to know what is more or less important package....
<Alinux> and what about initial terminal installer? I can't find packages name to translate is...
<carlos> Alinux, If we don't have it, it doesn't mean we will not implement it ;-)
<carlos> Alinux, https://launchpad.net/products/rosetta/+specs notes also what are we working on
<Alinux> ;)
<carlos> the High priority and approved are the ones we will implement soon
<Alinux> and what about installer?
<Alinux> hehe I found you mini foto carlos :) Spanish brother :)
<Alinux> thank you for your work :)
<Alinux> and sorry for my sometimes silly questions :)
<Alinux> can you tell me , where I can find installer's package template?
<carlos> Alinux, I talked with Kamion about a plan for the Debian installer 
<carlos> but I cannot give you a date when will be implemented...
<carlos> Alinux, it's not yet imported for dapper
<Alinux> and for breezy? I can start with breezy...no probs.
<carlos> It makes no sense to translate breezy's or hoary's installer, it's not going to change
<lifeless> elmo: around?
<Alinux> so what can I do  to implement Georgian language in installer too?
<carlos> Alinux, for breezy?
<carlos> I don't think you can do anything there, sorry
<Alinux> for breezy :) or future dapper :) for me is the same
<elmo> lifeless: yes
<carlos> Alinux, I think you only need to translate it. Kamion will get the translations directly from Rosetta
<lifeless> elmo: I was pinging you about two things. The asterix project and the i386 chroot
<elmo> lifeless: read your email; the i386 chroot is done
<Alinux> Kamion? Ca you tell me the packages name...or link, something...
<elmo> lifeless: what about the asterix?
<lifeless> mark asked if you'd negotiate the contract foo, AIUI.
<lifeless> ahha, 5am for the chroot - thanks!
<elmo> meh, ok
<lifeless> nov 13, 're: Pictures & Asterisk'
<lifeless> coordinate a proposal.
<lifeless> anyway, I'm not clear whose meant to talk money to the guy, and the current outstanding questions he has are on hardware.
<elmo> yeah, I've been watching the exchange, I'll see about replying
<lifeless> that would be great
<lifeless> I think he wants to do more than we do ;). 
<lifeless> let me check my understanding with yours: we are aiming for a internal PBX facility - voip between any two staff members - and thats it.
<carlos> Alinux, the installer is not yet imported
<carlos> Alinux, it will be as part of 'debian-installer' package
<carlos> time to leave
<carlos> see you tomorrow!
<Alinux> ;) ah ok... thank you :)
<lifeless> night carlos 
* carlos -> out
<lifeless> elmo: ^^
<elmo> lifeless: that's the basic requirement yes; tho I imagine if we do this, we ought to be able to do conferences if they're not much more effort
<lifeless> ah right.
<lifeless> point to point and conferencing between staff
<elmo> yeah
<lifeless> but we don't care (in the first implementation) to have external connections
<lifeless> I'm trying to rule out things like voice cards and connections to other voip exchanges, which asterix folk love, but add to the complexity
<elmo> well, I dunno, if we don't do external, we can only do conference with people on voip?
<lifeless> if we rule those out, then it should be very simple, and give us the primary benefits. We can always come back and setup a connection to BT later, or to the outside world.
<elmo> OTOH, conference is definitely second stage
<lifeless> I suspect most of our conferences are within the group of folk we're getting voip for anyway.
<lifeless> so how about I reply back with requirements in two steps - step one is 'conference and normal calls within the staff and anyone else we give an 'extension number' to.'
<lifeless> step two is 'external connectivity via either landlines or other voip switches or both.'
<lifeless> ok with you ?
<elmo> lifeless: sounds fine, yeah
<lifeless> thanks!
<lifeless> done
<niemeyer> Anyone knows about a script which may be considered as "the right way to do cronjobing in Launchpad" to be used as a model?
<mdz> anyone seen kiko?
<niemeyer> mdz: He's still on leave, I guess..
<ddaa> niemeyer: did you look at launchpad/cronscripts?
<WaterSevenUb> I had a translator asking how is the karma measured... 
<WaterSevenUb> is that written somewhere?
<niemeyer> ddaa: Doesn't look like there's anything special about these..
<niemeyer> ddaa: I mean, where are the mentioned tests for instance?
<OgMaciel> I think Rosetta is going nuts... my karma keeps going down no matter what I do
<ddaa> hum...
<OgMaciel> anyone know why by any chance?
<ddaa> niemeyer: there's also lib/canonical/launchpad/scripts
<niemeyer> ddaa: Yes, that looks like a bunch of utilities for scripts..
<ddaa> but the tests do not seem very relevant to the cronscripts...
<niemeyer> ddaa: bzrsync even imports some functions from there already.
* ddaa is puzzled
<ddaa> the annoying thing is also that the various people SteveA suggest to ask to are all .au folks
<ddaa> mh... except stub who is now in thailand... but that does not fix the tz
<ddaa> I think we ought to displace one of them to canada or something
<ddaa> niemeyer: I do not see much specific stuff, except the _pythonpath, logging, lockfile, execute_zcml_for_scripts and initZopeless.
<ddaa> ha, there's also the launchpad.config integration
<ddaa> * launchpad.conf
<niemeyer> ddaa: We're already using most of it..
<niemeyer> (in bzrsync)
<ddaa> that much less to do
<ddaa> the specific dbuser for each script... that would mean some changes in the security.cfg to separate what is needed for cscvs and what is needed for bzrsync
<ddaa> also, there should probably be some sort of email reporting
<niemeyer> ddaa: Understood
<ddaa> I'll drill the .au guys tomorrow
<ddaa> morning, before you wake up
<niemeyer> ddaa: Ok, thanks
<ddaa> about the way cronscripts are handled in prod, and about testing practices
<ddaa> It looks like somebody intended to make a consistent framework, but stopped at mid-course...
<niemeyer> ddaa: Meanwhile, I'll make bzrsync do what it's not yet doing (lockfile)
<ddaa> niemeyer: might be good to use the canonical.launchpad.scripts logging stuff. I do not know if and how it differs from the existing logging, but it appears to be consistently used in existing cronscripts.
<niemeyer> ddaa: Indeed.. that's a one liner, since we're already using logger.
<niemeyer> ddaa: We must also implement option parsing..
<ddaa> right, I'm not sure how much is actually needed for bzrsync...
<ddaa> ...
<ddaa> ha, here's the thing... this cronscript thing is not bzrsync itself
<ddaa> bzrsync does one branch, right?
<ddaa> the cronscript should do all branches on the public area of the supermirror
<ddaa> configuration data will include the sftp root of the public supermirror.
<ddaa> dbuser to use
<ddaa> mh... I cannot think of anything else
<niemeyer> ddaa: Well, this is bzrsync, but with additional changes.
<niemeyer> ddaa: Or you mean we'll need the current bzrsync for something else?
<ddaa> I'd be inclined toward leaving the doing-business part of bzrsync, with tests in importd, and only putting the cronscript machinery in cronscripts.
<ddaa> But that's a matter of taste.
<niemeyer> I see
<ddaa> Eventually, I think we'll want bzrsync not be a cronscript.
<ddaa> When we have importd->push-sftp->xmlrpc->supermirror->public area->xmlrpc->bzrsync.
<ddaa> So latency between rcs imports and new data displayed in launchpad will be minimised.
<ddaa> But we're nowhere near there yet.
<niemeyer> ddaa: We need the branch-id -> supermirror-url method in Branch objects.
<ddaa> nah
<niemeyer> ddaa: This is something that will change with nullable urls in the near future
<niemeyer> ddaa: nah?
<ddaa> you should sftp to the supermirror and use the backend, id-based, file system hierarchy.
<ddaa> Already talked that bit through with spiv and jblack.
<ddaa> Given a Branch in the DB, you get the id, then you can find the branch directly on the SM. No need to use the Branch.url at all.
<niemeyer> Is there a reason for it, given that the supermirror has http access to these branches anyway?
<niemeyer> and that we need to know the supermirror url inside Launchpad anyway
<ddaa> Robustness against concurrent renames.
<ddaa> not a big deal, but it's the more correct and simplest way of doing it
<ddaa> do you there's a problem with that approach?
<ddaa> * do you think
<niemeyer> ddaa: Agreed
<niemeyer> ddaa: Not at all.. was just wondering why the extra effort
<ddaa> obviously, if the id-based fs hierachy is not there... it would be saner to use http and add (dunno where) the logic to compute SM public urls for branches.
<ddaa> you're caught in a maze of interlocking subsystems, all different
<ddaa> it's getting dark in there
<ddaa> you might be eaten by a grue
<niemeyer> :-)
<niemeyer> ddaa: Do you know if the "backend" of SupermirrorFSH is in place already?
<ddaa> I don't.
<niemeyer> ddaa: I mean, if we have a directory structure with ids inside the server already
<ddaa> I understand.
<niemeyer> Ok
<ddaa> lifeless said something about jblack's script, so I think he would be the guy to sync with about that.
<ddaa> he=lifeless
<ddaa> lifeless: ping
#launchpad 2005-11-27
<lifeless> one minute
<ddaa> too late, I'm going to bed. Staying connected for the scrollback.
<lifeless> ok
<lifeless> anyway, I'll have answers tomorrow
<lifeless> but as your scripts do not write to the sm directly, it should not matter to you or niemeyer
<lifeless> ditto for reading, the ids are not exposed outside the SM machine
<ddaa> lifeless: it would be simpler for us to read directly from the id-based FS.
<ddaa> and more robust as well
<spiv> niemeyer: No, that internal structure isn't in place yet.
<lifeless> then we should change the specs
<lifeless> we do not want the id based FS to leak
<ddaa> it's not leaking... bzrsync is an internal system.
<lifeless> in fact, we should not use the real id based FS to read, it would make to tight coupling
<lifeless> we should use a flat structure exposing the ids for internal use
<ddaa> lifeless: this is niemeyer
<ddaa> niemeyer: this is lifeless
<ddaa> spiv: would it be feasible for you to hack something to give us that flat id namespace on an internal http?
<ddaa> I mean, before next week.
<lifeless> spiv: so, did you lose the sm sftp stuff with your laptop ?
<spiv> ddaa: So, that's easy... assuming the internal storage is flat ids, just run a private httpd, e.g. plain apache, on a private port serving them.
<spiv> lifeless: Almost none, the vast bulk of it was mirrorred.  The larger setback was the change to use just branch ids rather than person-id/product-id/branch-name ;)
<lifeless> spiv: re flat id space - right, but if the internal ids get path-shuffled, we'd want a mapping to keep them flat
<lifeless> so that the logical access and physical storage are not conflated
<spiv> lifeless: So, the SFH spec currently says that an ID of abcdef12 would be stored on disk in a directory ab/cd/ef/12.
<ddaa> spiv: niemeyer is working on making bzrsync a good citizen of launchpad/cronscripts, and make it scan the public supermirror. For rollout monday next week at the latest. I'd like that code to to use branch id to access the bzr branches on SM regardless of what the backend FS looks like.
<spiv> So the apache would need a simple mod_rewrite.
<lifeless> spiv: right. 
<spiv> If we ever change that scheme, we'd obviously need to update the mod_rewrite config in that httpd.
<lifeless> spiv: right.
<lifeless> spiv: so I'd like that published as 'http://internal/+ids/abcdef12
<spiv> i.e. I'd expect it to be serving from http://foo/bar/abcdef12 not http://foo/bar/ab/cd/ef/12.
<ddaa> that said, I'm heading away, thanks guys
<spiv> Sorry, I'm obviously not awake enough, I assumed you read my mind and thought that was obvious ;)
<spiv> ddaa: Good night.
<lifeless> night ddaa
<spiv> I'm not sure that the branches on the supermirror currently have branch records in Launchpad...
<ddaa> spiv: lifeless: btw, while you are around with niemeyer, can you fill him with the specific testing requirements for cronscripts, if any?
<lifeless> spiv:  they do not
<niemeyer> spiv: abcdef12?
<ddaa> spiv: if they don't they bzrsync do not care.
<niemeyer> spiv: Isn't it just 12?
<lifeless> niemeyer: we are defining a new publishing address for branches on the supermirror
<ddaa> Hu, I mean bzrsync do not care abotu branch that are not in launchpad.
<niemeyer> lifeless: Yeah, I got that part.. ;)
<lifeless> niemeyer: if the database id was 'abcdef12'
<niemeyer> lifeless: Ah, ok.. database ids are numbers always.
<lifeless> then the url would be 'http://internal/+ids/abcdef12'
<lifeless> niemeyer: this is true, and thus confusing as an example ;)
<spiv> niemeyer: abcdef12 is a number in base 16 ;)
<niemeyer> spiv: Ah, of course. My fault.. :)
<spiv> (the librarian's on-disk storage uses that scheme, also with hex)
<lifeless> spiv: I think to http publish decimal is easier to debug
<niemeyer> spiv: Yes, but they're hashes, while database ids are not (as we're talking in the other window :)
<spiv> niemeyer: No, they're not, as I'm saying in the other window :)
<niemeyer> <spiv> It won't be fantastic, but it'll be good enough.
<niemeyer> <spiv> Each directory will have a maximum of 256 entries at any level.
<niemeyer> <spiv> So while the existing entries won't be evenly distributed, it will avoid the major suckage of having thousands of entries in a single directory.
<niemeyer> <spiv> I guess a cheap way to improve that would be to reverse the segments:
<niemeyer> <spiv> 12/ef/cd/ab
<niemeyer> spiv: Interesting
<lifeless> hmm
<spiv> lifeless: I don't see how it would be easier to debug -- it's just a number either way.  Converting to and from hex isn't hard: python -c "print 0xabcdef12, hex(12345678)"  ;)
<lifeless> spiv: one has to do that
* niemeyer leaves for some food, bbiab..
<lifeless> spiv: postgres gives you decimal output
<spiv> lifeless: How about this.
<spiv> lifeless: You figure out how to write the rewrite rule to do the conversion, and I won't care ;)
<lifeless> heh
<lifeless> well, lets do hex then
<lifeless> as I don't care *that* much
<jamesh> postgres has a to_hex() function, if that helps
<spiv> jamesh: Beat me to it :)
<Alinux> hello
<Alinux> can tell me someone, if .po files translated in lauchpad are syncronized with original .po files?
<lifeless> perhaps /+hexids/abcdef12
<lifeless> so its clear to someone debugging
<jamesh> Alinux: if the upstream maintainers export them from rosetta and include them, yes
<jamesh> Alinux: for Ubuntu, the rosetta data is also exported as language packs
<spiv> lifeless: That's a good idea.
<Alinux> yes I know... but it measn that for example "nautilus" translated in Georgian in Ubuntu will never appear in "nautilus" of Debian or SuSE etc...
<Alinux> =
<mdke> Alinux, it depends on the georgian gnome translating team
<jamesh> Alinux: you could request an export and then ask someone on the gnome-i18n list to commit it
<mdke> if they export them, then they will be included
<jamesh> Alinux: if you are part of the gnome translation project, you could commit updated PO files easily too
<Alinux> gnome gnome, or ubuntu gnome?
<mdke> gnome gnome
<Alinux> I'm in Ubuntu Georgian translators team
<mdke> Alinux, here is how it works
<Alinux> not in gnome.
<jamesh> GTP
<mdke> Gnome translators have their own procedure about which translations/translators they accept
<mdke> so Ubuntu can't force them to use its translations
<mdke> if they want to, they can
<mdke> they generally will, if they think they are good enough, and are aware that they exist
<Alinux> mdke, sei tu ? :)
<mdke> yes
<Alinux> ciao bro :)
<mdke> hi
<jamesh> looks like ddaa's branch added a patch-25-99-0.sql
<jamesh> which doesn't look like an approved patch number
<Kinnison> jamesh: shouldn't be a problem, we're on a -40- baseline now?
* Kinnison beds
<Kinnison> ciau
<jamesh> Kinnison: it still gets applied by "make schema", without any errors
<jamesh> just makes me think it hasn't been approved
<jamesh> (not that it wouldn't get approved)
<jblack> spiv: around? 
<spiv> jblack: Yeah.
<jblack> Remember that config class we made back at UBZ? 
<jblack> we replaced Config.get() with a __getattr__(self, var) 
<spiv> Hmm, I don't remember that at all.
<spiv> Perhaps you're thinking of someone else, or perhaps you just need to jog my memory more :)
<jblack> Never mind. I figured it out. 
<jblack> THanks for the help. :)
<spiv> Excellent :)
<jamesh> jblack: I think I was the one helping you out then.
<jblack> Oh, yes. That's right.
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> brown.freenode.net
<SteveA_> morning everyone
<ajmitch> hi
<stub> yo
<SteveA_> jamesh: how's the error reporting stuff looking?
<Kinnison> jamesh: bizarre, I didn't think we applied patches except within the baseline.
<jamesh> SteveA_: okay.  I've got the hooks in place, just need to finish off the code that writes out the exception files
<jamesh> Kinnison: maybe that's a bug too ...
<Kinnison> jamesh: perhaps. I'd mail stub if I were you
<jamesh> Kinnison: no need: see item 3 on http://pqm.ubuntu.com/
<Kinnison> aha
<Kinnison> coolio
<sivang> Morning all
<Kinnison> hi sivan
<sivang> Kinnison: Hey Daniel, what's cooking?
<Kinnison> sivang: not much, just sorting through my TODO
<Kinnison> Had to get up early today to take the car in for its MOT
<sivang> Kinnison: ah, good
<Kinnison> so I'm still under-caffeinated
<sivang> Kinnison: MOT ?
<Kinnison> sivang: it's a test which all cars over a certain age take each year to ensure they're road-worthy
<ajmitch> something that has to be done every 6 or 12 months here, for every car
* Kinnison nods
* Kinnison expects something will need fixing
<Kinnison> maybe a tyre or two will need replacing
<sivang> Kinnison: oh, right. we have this here as well
<sivang> Kinnison: what brand of car is that?
<Kinnison> sivang: I have a Daewoo
<Kinnison> s'not brilliant, but it works
<carlos> morning
<ddaa> Maybe they should do the same for politicians.
<Kinnison> ddaa: what, check every year that their brake pressure is high enough and that their tyres have enough tread?
<ddaa> In substance.
<jamesh> ddaa: for politicians, it's called an election
<ddaa> jamesh: nah, an election is like crossing an intersection.
<ddaa> That a car crosses an intersection means neither that the driver is awake (i.e. crossing when the traffic light is green) nor that the car is able to turn or brake (it just needs to go straight ahead).
<ddaa> Occasionally, a policitician crashes when crossing an election. That's called a Watergate.
<ddaa> or it crosses all right but then roll over a few pedestrians.
<ddaa> That's called Dubia.
<ddaa> Or Tony Blair if you want.
<ddaa> Oh BTW, apparently the fellow was caught having a phone conversation where he suggested bombing Al-Gesira :)
<ddaa> more practically
<sivang> ddaa: LOL
<ddaa> jamesh: I have few questions for you about the where and whys of launchpda cronscripts.
<ddaa> jamesh: got a few minutes?
<jamesh> ddaa: sure.
<ddaa> So context: we need to have a new cronscript for bzr branch scanning. niemeyer is the guy that's going to work on actually doing it.
<ddaa> What are the requirements for new cronscripts, in terms of integration with launchpad, testing, deployments, etc. ?
<ddaa> Actually, It's just one big sweeping question ATM. I have more pointed ones, but I'd like if you could generally, "tell me what you know".
<jamesh> ddaa: best practice is to put the meat of the script in lib/canonical/launchpad/scripts as a module, and write it in a form where it can be tested
<jamesh> ddaa: then make the actual script in cronscripts/ a small program that uses the above module
<SteveA_> i think niemeyer talked with spiv yesterday about this also
<ddaa> did not see much relevent talk in the backlog... maybe it was a private discussion?
<SteveA_> dunno.  i just read it on gustavo's activity report.
<ddaa> The public log has much talk about SMFSH, which is orthogonal to the cronscripting.
<ddaa> SteveA_: I also wonder what's the purpose of the ./cronscript/tests directory
<ddaa> it's empty here
<ddaa> jamesh: is there a cronscript template somewhere? In the current collection of scripts, it hard to tell what's best practice and what's this way just because it's the way it is. 
<jamesh> ddaa: scripts/bugzilla-import.py in https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~jamesh/pending-reviews/jamesh/launchpad/bugzilla-import/full-diff isn't too bad
<ddaa> Mh... I guess that means the bzrsync should move out of lib/importd and become a good citizen of the launchpad testing framework...
<ddaa> jamesh: is there a set of required command line options?
<jamesh> ddaa: not really.
<jamesh> ddaa: if you are producing log messages, it is good to use canonical.launchpad.scripts.logger_options() and c.l.s.logger() to set up logging
<jamesh> ddaa: that'll give consistent handling of --verbose and --quiet args
<ddaa> Wel... if you remove mysql and and optparse, there's not much left of your script...
<ddaa> mh... ok
<ddaa> Is there anything tricky I should now about launchpad.conf integration?
<ddaa> * I should know
<jamesh> not really
<jamesh> edit lib/canonical/config/schema.xml to define new keys, set appropriate values in the various configs under configs/
<ddaa> well, separate db user, so will probably need a rework of security.cfg, I figured out.
<ddaa> Has schema.xml, thanks!
<ddaa> Did not notice that before.
<ddaa> Mh.... I think that completes the integration questions. Now, the deployment questions :)
<ddaa> Who is in charge of rolling out a cronscript and setting up the cronjob?
<ddaa> I mean, is that centralised (stub/elmo/etc. does them all), or is that everybody does its own? And on which system?
<spiv> ddaa: Talk with stub, I think.
<ddaa> stub: ping!
<spiv> ddaa: Even if it's something that doesn't run on the same machines as the production webapps, it's still likely he'll need to know about it for rollouts and planned outages.
<ddaa> spiv: well, ATM I'm try to figure out what's the general policy and whether there's any policy.
<ddaa> one question related to that, is what is the recommended procedure for cronscript feedback? Email? And then to who, configured in which way?
<ddaa> I can imagine many combinations there, but I'd like to know what's currently being done before asking niemeyer to do something that will waste his time in review.
<spiv> The other cron scripts mail to the launchpad error reports list.
<jamesh> ddaa: assuming you are using the standard logging framework, setting the log level to the appropriate level should result in only errors getting printed
<jamesh> ddaa: so if you run the script at that logging level, cron will mail out the output
<spiv> I think this is done by making the cron jobs themselves look for output on stderr, and mail if appropriate.
<ddaa> jamesh: mail the output to the launchpad-error-reports mailing list?
<jamesh> ddaa: I think that's how it works
<ddaa> SteveA: can you approve my subscription to launchpad-error-reports, please?
<SteveA_> ddaa: no
<SteveA_> ddaa: i'm not manager of that list
<SteveA_> oh, aparently i am
<SteveA_> how odd
<SteveA_> ddaa: you're approved
<stub> ddaa: Pong
<stub> (had the sound down sorry)
<stub> ddaa: I'm generally the person who turns on the various cron stuff, and am the point of contact for that.
<stub> ddaa: cronscripts generally just spit their output to stdout/stderr and cron takes it from there (sending the output to launchpad-error-reports)
<stub> ddaa: Which makes the scripts testable. Ideally your script will not produce any output if run with '-q' to avoid needless spamming, unless it is important for people to be aware that it actually *did* run (such as backups or critical stuff)
<ddaa> Hu... define critical?
<stub> ddaa: Stuff you will be explicitly checking for in your in tray every day.
<ddaa> In my specific case, the task is scanning bzr branches to populate the database. I expect that sooner or later we'll want to be able to see what has been done during the last few runs (for diagnostic, in case something smells fishy). What would be the way of handling this sort of logging?
<stub> ddaa: I can't think of any of our existing systems that are like that, except for possibly the shipit exports (and marileze gets that status through another mechanism anyway)
<stub> ddaa: Sure. Just output overview stuff using log.info(), verbose debugging noise using log.notice()
<stub> ddaa: Then we roll it out and, when we are happy with how it is performing, we can add the '-q' option to reduce the daily noise. Or add the '-v' option if things are screwing up and we need the debug noise.
<stub> ddaa: So just use the launchpad.scripts.logger stuff jamesh mentioned above
<stub> Which gives you nice timestamps and stuff in your output, which is very useful for stuff running as a cronjob
<stub> ddaa: Will your script run happily on the standard production servers, or need to run on a specific server or a dedicated server?
<ddaa> Do you usually run jobs as a specific user on a specific system? I'm used to having a lot of control over the bazaar-related subsystem so I can do rollout or tweak this kind of diagnostic knobs myself.
<stub> ddaa: No, but we should be ;)
<ddaa> I do not expect that specific script is going to have exotic requirements. It's mostly running bzrlib over sanitised branches to extract metadata (so I do not expect high CPU or memory usage) and fill the database.
<stub> ddaa: If you want to run it yourself, that is fine. I just need to give DB access to the relevant accounts and possibly do test runs for you on the staging server.
<ddaa> Though, it can potentially run a large number of transactions when new branches are published.
<WaterSevenUb> carlos, quick question... dapper translations will change a lot soon? i.e., something like breezy imports? or is more or less stable by now?
<carlos> WaterSevenUb, will change a lot soon
<WaterSevenUb> carlos, ok:-) thanks. How about saying those things on Rosetta-users?:) I'm afraid translators get mad loosing their work...
<carlos> no work will be lost
<WaterSevenUb> ok, great ;)
<ddaa> stub: oh BTW, somebody pointed out that I merged my patch as patch-(something)-99.sql :)
<stub> ddaa: I noticed ;) There is a patch in PQM to fix that (failed to land it yesterday)
<ddaa> Should I fix that myself or leave you make it dbadmin kosher?
<ddaa> nice, thanks
<stub> ddaa: It is running on staging if you want to confirm the new schema works with launchpad happily
<ddaa> I fully expect there will be no problems.
<ddaa> Had a quick look though.
<ddaa> The code is very thouroughly tested.
<ddaa> stub: is there a rollout policy for cronscripts?
<ddaa> I mean, is that bound to the launchpad rollout schedule, or can we nag you randomly to update or rollout new cronscripts?
<stub> ddaa: I like to be nagged. Just because the script has landed doesn't mean it should be turned on yet, as there may still be outstanding dependancies (eg. debbugs syncing waiting on Gina)
<stub> ddaa: Turning them on isn't bound to the launchpad rollout schedule, and if you are maintaining the codebase that runs it it doesn't even have to be the production branch you are running (which could cause issues with our mutating database schema, but if you want the rope you can have it)
<ddaa> Thinking of which. I think I'd like to to be able, at least, to kick the script by hand now and then. For example when an interesting community member just registered a branch I'd like to be able to cause an immediate scan.
<jamesh> ddaa: interesting choice of sample data, btw ;)
<ddaa> I'm pretty much in control of the db schema bits relating to this. And I'm used to having massive version skew with production on importd...
<ddaa> For example, I'm about to rollout the new importd, and it's expectd to work seamlessly with the old and new schemas.
<ddaa> stub: So, I think it would be nice to have a new user we can both login into for controlling bzrsync.
<ddaa> sounds reasonable?
<stub> ddaa: Sure. Macquarie would be a good choice then since we both already have accounts there and it already has other connections to the production db.
<ddaa> jamesh: well, gnome-terminal was one of the few sampledata products that were not already "polluted" by hct sampledata :)
<stub> ddaa: Just stick an issue into rt for elmo/znarl
<ddaa> oh, BTW I need to go scream because it (and the importd systems) do not have bzr yet :(
<stub> ddaa: We are building it from source to avoid having to keep rolling out the dailies (with is a pita, and blocked me updating staging yesterday and production today :-( )
<ddaa> that does not sound that much a PITA...
<stub> ddaa: rollout.py in the main config tree is what I'm using
<stub> ddaa: It is a pita when the current version we are supposed to use doesn't work with our archives ;)
<ddaa> Cannot use that.
<stub> Robert seemed happy with installing 0.7 though when it is released
<ddaa> The importd stuff requires some uncommitted changes (builbot's private.py) and some non-source files to be preserved (though it could be argued that's a bug).
<ddaa> Mh... I guess I could w/o bzr...
<ddaa> I can move the critical data "by hand".
<stub> Sounds like a bug - I would say private.py and the non-source files needing preservation should not be in the tree. Makes rollouts and the corresponding documentation much easier
<matsubara> good morning!
<ddaa> stub: IMO using buildbot at all is a bug.
<stub> We already do this for the main production launchpad instances (there is a ZCML script that lives outside of the tree that contains the IMAP password)
<ddaa> And I'm not sure at all we can move the private.py away.
<ddaa> mh... yes we can...
<ddaa> hey niemeyer
<niemeyer> ddaa: Hello
<cprov> good morning 
<WaterSevenUb> a translator asked me if his work was being lost somehow since his "karma" was going down... how is Karma measured ?
<Kinnison> Karma decays over time
<Kinnison> So you have to keep doing work in order to keep it up
<WaterSevenUb> yeah.. that's what I thought...
<WaterSevenUb> .)
<WaterSevenUb> kinnison, ok thx
<Kinnison> No problem
<WaterSevenUb> kinnison, see bottom https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewTranslatorQuestions - answer to the karma question. More or less fine?:)
<Kinnison> seems fine
<Kinnison> salgado: does it look right to you?
<salgado> yep, it's okay
<sivang> hmm, can anyone tell me why I am getting "orry, you don't have permission to access this page." on https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/dapper-desktop-plan/+status? It wsa suggested as an example in an email to u-d sent by JaneW
<sivang> oh, and another question - why is my Karma dropping in launchpad? :)
<carlos> lifeless, Is there any trick to do a bzr mirroring fast?
<Kinnison> carlos: use bzrtools and its rsync push rather than sftp:// push
<carlos> Kinnison, tried a local mirror and then direct rsync but the local mirror is still slow
<carlos> Kinnison, what should I use? rsync:// ?
<carlos> bzr push rsync://.... ?
<Kinnison> bzr push chinstrap.ubuntu.com:/home/warthogs.....
* carlos tries it..
<carlos> Kinnison, seems to work as I wanted. Thank you!
<Kinnison> carlos: You're welcome
<Kinnison> bzr: ERROR: bzrlib.errors.NoSuchRevision: Branch BzrBranch(u'/home/dsilvers/dev-canonical/rocketfuel-mirror-of-launchpad/launchpad') has no revision pqm@pqm.ubuntu.com-20051122113309-82dcc8325c5c0d19
<Kinnison> urgh :-(
<carlos> sounds bad...
<Kinnison> I *think* this is a known issue with bzr
* Kinnison tries to remember how to fix it
<salgado> stub, around?
<jamesh> Kinnison: I think lifeless fixed it last time
<Kinnison> jamesh: hmm
<sivang> jamesh: Is it easy to have the same remedey you suggested for #3600 be applied to the whiteboard text handleing of the specification tracker? :-)
<Keybuk> funny, googling for "introduction to quilt" gave me a document with exactly the title I was looking for, but not the content
* Kinnison grins and goes to prep lunch
<sivang> Kinnison: bon appetite!
* carlos -> lunch
<stub> salgado: yes
<salgado> stub, is it possible to optimize this: https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/file6sINHz.html
<salgado> ?
<stub> salgado: Nothing obvious. I'll have a closer look later
* stub buggers of for an hour
<salgado> stub, ok, thanks. :)
<niemeyer> ddaa: Great job on the document
<SteveA> carlos: ping
<Kinnison> brb, gotta reconnect the router
<stub> salgado: https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/filewrXAog.html
<stub> salgado: The way you have is only taking 3 or 4 seconds to execute though, so perhaps there is another query on that page that is causing the time to be chewed up?
<kiko> hello guys
<kiko> how is everybody?
<kiko> Kinnison?
<SteveA> hi carlos 
<SteveA> we have a few code things to talk through.  and i have another 2/3 of the review to do
<carlos> SteveA, pong
<carlos> hi
<Kinnison> kiko: hey
<Kinnison> kiko: what can I do for you today?
<kiko> Kinnison, let's talk soyuz some, shall we?
<Kinnison> kiko: sure, can I have a few mins to finish up this function?
<kiko> yeah sure
<kiko> take off the tuxedo etc
<Kinnison> what?
<carlos> SteveA, ?
<SteveA> carlos: can we talk in 30 mins or so?
<carlos> SteveA, sure
<kiko> Kinnison, the function you're finishing.
* Kinnison is confused
<Kinnison> Okay, what do you want to talk about?
<kiko> Kinnison, guess and win 5$? I think elmo would be helpful here as well -- elmo, are you available?
<kiko> Kinnison, well, let's try again in 1h. can you please try and get hold of elmo? I'd like to see if we are moving to drescher.
<niemeyer> kiko!
<niemeyer> Welcome back
<Kinnison> stub suggested we shouldn't
<kiko> hey niemeyer 
<Kinnison> did you not see that mail?
<kiko> Kinnison, not yesterday. I know he suggested that -- he said so at UBZ as well. I was wondering if he had reconsidered
<kiko> he's suggesting living without staging then?
<Kinnison> Seems to be what he's advocating
* kiko scratches head
<kiko> well, if that's the case.
<kiko> Kinnison, at any rate, we should talk status and see how I can help you
<Kinnison> Okay, give me 2 mins and we'll talk status
<kiko> Kinnison, 1h is better, I need lunch
<Kinnison> kiko: okay, one sec... 17:00 UTC? 1h13m from now
<kiko> that's perfect
<kiko> thanks
<salgado> hmmmm. is pqm borked again?
<bradb> salgado: I think it's due to the load on chinstrap. But it's not always easy to tell if pqm is down or just unbelievably slow.
* Kinnison takes advantage of this gap to retrieve his car from the garage
<Kinnison> ciao
<bradb> jamesh: around?
* bradb writes email instead
<carlos> hmm
<carlos> someone added a wrong db patch to launchpad...
<carlos> carlos@aragorn:~/Work/Canonical/trivial/database/schema$ ls patch-*
<carlos> patch-25-99-0.sql  patch-40-00-0.sql  patch-40-02-0.sql
<SteveA> carlos: shall we talk about the translation queue stuff now?
<carlos> ddaa, I think it's about your work on launchpad, not sure who added them...
<carlos> SteveA, sure
<SteveA> 'lib/canonical/launchpad/browser/translationimportqueue.py'
<SteveA> carlos: can we look at that first?
<carlos> sur
<carlos> sure
<SteveA> so, i made some comments about this set of 4 methods
<SteveA>  has_things_to_import, has_pending_reviews, readyToImport, pendingReview
<SteveA> first two are properties, actually
<carlos> right
<carlos> I don't see why a raw SQL query should be used there...
<SteveA> raw sql?
<carlos> "Maybe this should go to an SQL query?" isn't it what you are suggesting?
<SteveA> no
<SteveA> first of all, the code to has_things_to_import looks almost the same as readyToImport
<SteveA>   @property
<SteveA>    def has_things_to_import(self):
<SteveA>        """Return whether there are things ready to import or not."""
<SteveA>        for entry in self.context.getEntries():
<SteveA>            if entry.import_into is not None:
<SteveA>                return True
<SteveA>        return False
<SteveA>    def readyToImport(self):
<SteveA>        """Iterate the entries that can be imported directly."""
<SteveA>        for entry in self.context.getEntries():
<SteveA>            if entry.import_into is not None:
<SteveA>                yield entry
<SteveA> 
<carlos> yes is the same
<SteveA> so, why not write has_things_to_import in terms of readyToImport ?
<carlos> I thought it was easier to understand that way
<SteveA> maybe.  it will also make people wonder if they've missed something, seeing the repeated code
<carlos> SteveA, well, it's not exactly the same, but it's quite similar
<carlos> the returned value is different
<SteveA> you could do this:
<SteveA>   @property
<SteveA>    def has_things_to_import(self):
<SteveA>        """Return whether there are things ready to import or not."""
<SteveA>        for entry in self.readyToImport():
<SteveA>            return True
<SteveA>        return False
<carlos> ok
<SteveA> there are other ways of doing it too
<SteveA> but i think this is not too bad
<carlos> ok, next point?
<carlos> hmm wait
<carlos> what did you mean with the SQL query?
<SteveA> where did i say that?
<YuLin> Hi there
<YuLin> ;)
<SteveA> hello YuLin 
<YuLin> may I ask a question?
<carlos> That is a lot.  The code is already iterating over many of the database
<carlos> records.  Maybe this should go to an SQL query?
<YuLin> (well, that was already one, actually)
<SteveA> ah, right
<carlos> SteveA, that's what you said for has_things_to_import
<Kinnison> YuLin: go ahead
<YuLin> Kinnison: thank you :)
<SteveA> carlos: you were saying that you want to use iteration there, in order to cope with having a lot in the database
<carlos> right
<SteveA> carlos: the query to get self.context.getEntries() is made 4 times the way the view is currently written, it looks like
<SteveA> i'm not sure if these are all on the same page
<YuLin> so, here's my question: why Swiss French is not represented as one of the languages Ubuntu can be translated in?
<ddaa> carlos: the patch-25-99.sql is mine.
<SteveA> if they are, then it would be better to use self.context.getEntries() once, iterate over it once, getting the required information from it
<ddaa> I was a bad boy.
<ddaa> stub said he has a fix pending upload
<SteveA> or, not iterating over it to find a case when import_into is None or not None, and instead adding a database API for this
<SteveA> so that you don't potentially iterate over all of them
<carlos> SteveA, well, we don't iterate over all the records...
<SteveA> you might
<SteveA> it depends on the data in the records
<carlos> we do the query but we get only the first entry
<SteveA> you get as many queries as needed
<carlos> hmmm, that's true
<SteveA> to find one with import_into is NULL
<SteveA> or not NULL
<SteveA> so, if this can get big
<SteveA> it needs to be a query of its own
<carlos> ok
<YuLin> so? ;)
<SteveA> carlos: let's take a break, so you can talk with YuLin 
<carlos> SteveA, oh, right!
<carlos> YuLin, sorry, I didn't see your question...
<YuLin> that's so nice
<carlos> YuLin, what's the difference between Swiss French and just French?
<YuLin> well, there are many
<mdke> accent, the occasional word here and there
<YuLin> of course "many" isn't really relevant ;)
<carlos> YuLin, by default, we hide those kind of languages
<YuLin> linguistically, there are many differences, especially due to german influence
<mdke> i suspect that the answer is that swiss french people understand french french very well
<YuLin> they do
<YuLin> but is this legitimate to have Old English represented while no one can speak it?
<carlos> but you still can translate into them building the URL by hand to create the first transaltion, later it will appear in all listings for that product or sourcepackage
<mdke> no, in my opinion
<mdke> equally, French (France) should go, and Italian (Italy) etc
<carlos> YuLin, do you think the Swiss French should be always available for all modules to translate?
<carlos> or are we talking only about small differences?
<YuLin> I think so, yes
<SteveA> another thing to ask is, would swiss french speakers join in a wider french translation effort
<YuLin> well, you see, I'm French and I live in Switzerland
<SteveA> or would they consider their language different, so they would want to focus on their own language, and not on french in general
<YuLin> and since I've moved here (a few years), I'm getting aware of more and more differences
<YuLin> well
<YuLin> there's an idea of identity
<YuLin> Swiss French people are very friendly
<mdke> one of the leaders of the Ubuntu french translating team is swiss :)
<YuLin> however, they don't like to be assimilated to French people
<SteveA> of course, people must work on those things that they want to.  but, i'd be concerned about encouraging a split in the volunteer efforts between two goals without so much difference between them
<carlos> the key question is if you or someone else will create a Swiss French team
<carlos> YuLin, for instance, es_ES and es_MX have differences
<YuLin> I guess so
<carlos> YuLin, but we try to reach a common translation so we just translate for 'es'
<YuLin> I see
<carlos> so we join efforts and have just one team
<mdke> that is nice
<YuLin> well, I suppose you're right
<mdke> that way, people get more translations in the end
<YuLin> there's no real need for fr_CH, after all
<YuLin> I just thought of suggesting this because I know the French Team is rather big and efficient
<mdke> it should be the same for english, without all this en_AU en_GB stuff
<YuLin> I think, in general, it's nice to preserve differences :)
<carlos> YuLin, from the Spanish point of view, we try first to get a 100% and with good quality translation into Spanish and then, we will try to improve the specific parts for every country
<YuLin> but of course, if it goes against functionality, that's a problem
<SteveA> it can be a big deal for educational software, software used in schools
<mdke> carlos, i think that is the right approach
<SteveA> because when teachers are trying to teach good en_GB, it is more difficult when the software kids are using is in en_US
<mdke> that is a good point. But where it is a question of prioritising scarse resources, I think the spanish approach is the best
<carlos> YuLin, the thing is... you can translate into Swiss French if you want, but you need to create the URL manually
<YuLin> alright
<carlos> YuLin, if you decide that a new team should be created, request us to enable your language by default and we will do it
<mdke> carlos, are the fr_FR things going to hang around?
<carlos> mdke, the old ones will remain until a French translator merge them into 'fr' and request us to remove them we are not going to implement a way to merge them in the near future (if that's your question)
<carlos> mdz, hi, around?
<mdz> carlos: yep
<carlos> mdz, why launchpad-database-dependencies depends on postgresql 8.1?
<mdz> carlos: because postgresql 8.0 says "DON'T USE ME"
<carlos> mdz, 8.1 does not work with launchpad
<mdke> carlos, yes i think that answers my question. I wasn't really just asking about fr_FR but all languages which have the duplicate. It is quite confusing for users
<mdz> carlos: I see.  is that expected to be true in the long term?
<carlos> mdke, we prevent to create new ones, but the old ones remain there
<carlos> mdz, I don't think so, I suppose it's a matter of stub or any postgres expert to fix it...
<carlos> I started to fix it, but got an error that I'm not sure how to solve
<mdke> carlos, i see. So if I went about merging the it_IT ones into it, you'd remove it_IT afterwards?
<mdz> carlos: should I revert it, or just wait?
<carlos> mdke, yes
<jordi> carlos, SteveA: saw my draft?
<carlos> mdz, I don't know. 
<carlos> SteveA, ?
<carlos> jordi, not yet, sorry
<jordi> k
<mdke> carlos, ok. Would I have to merge just dapper, or all versions of Ubuntu?
<carlos> mdke, does dapper have an it_IT?
<carlos> mdke, if that's the case... you need to fix it upstream
<SteveA> jordi: not yet
<carlos> mdke, or it will appear again
<mdke> carlos, yes it does
<mdke> carlos, ditto de_DE and fr_FR etc
<mdke> but the source packages in there are a bit odd
<mdke> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+lang/it_IT
<SteveA> carlos: the part of my review where i said something probably didn't have test coverage, and had totally duplicated code, was me not reading a "not" in one version of the methods, by the way.
<carlos> mdke, those upstream products should be fixed, anyway, with the new system I developed, we can implement a workaround...
<mdke> ooh
<carlos> SteveA, ok
<salgado> ddaa, that fix stub had to rename patch-25-99.sql was being processed when pqm got stuck, so it didn't get merged
<ddaa> ack, but when asked stub if I should fix the problem myself, he told me he had this patch.
<ddaa> so I'm not sure what you are suggesting.
<carlos> SteveA, "We still have three largely identical methods.  This is not the best thing.
<carlos> Let's talk on irc about how to use less code here."
<carlos> SteveA, could we talk about that?
<salgado> I wasn't suggesting anything, actually. it was just so you know why it wasn't renamed yet
<SteveA> yes. let me get another cup of tea.  5 mins
* carlos workraves
* SteveA tearaves
<SteveA> carlos: ?
<carlos> SteveA, I'm back
<SteveA> ok
<SteveA> so, we have these methods like def block(self):
<ddaa> yay... importd is coming back online, at last...
<carlos> SteveA, right
<SteveA> > +                entry = self.context.get(id)
<SteveA> where does id come from?
<ddaa> that was starting to feel like one of those dreams where the more you run, the more backwards you go
<carlos> SteveA, from the form, the names of the checkboxes have it
<jordi> carlos: we have a few pending plural form requests
<jordi> and some "languages in my country" requests
<carlos> jordi, will try to handle them tomorrow..
<SteveA> look at the method def block
<SteveA> where does 'id' come from?
<jordi> should I mail launchpad@, or you?
<jordi> ok
<carlos> I have some pending mails from rosetta-users
<jordi> me too
<jordi> gotta go, I'm at uni trying to fix the server
<jordi> processor seems very dead though :(
<kiko> jordi!
<carlos> SteveA, ok, when I applied your iniitial review, I didn't execute the tests and forgot to update the for clause to use 'id' instead of 'item'
<carlos> jordi, I will do it, I need to update also the sampledata
<SteveA> carlos: okay
<SteveA> so, the overall pattern of block() is like this: 
<SteveA>   - set counter to 0
<SteveA>   - get the launchpad celebrities
<SteveA>   - loop over the ids in form_entries
<SteveA>   - check that the user is allowed (not sure why this is done each time through the loop, and not sure why this isn't handled by the normal security systems)
<SteveA>   - if user is allowed, get the entry, and block it.  increment counter
<carlos> SteveA, because we check if it's allowed with that concrete entry
<SteveA> not according to the code, it seems to me
<SteveA>   - then notify according to how big the count it
<SteveA> 
<SteveA> this is the same pattern for three different operations
<SteveA> all that changes is the action, like entry.block(False) or whatever
<carlos> right, I was looking at remove()
<SteveA> and the notification message
<carlos> remove depends on the entry
<SteveA> okay, so remove is a little different.  but, that should also be handled by the general security 
<carlos> block and unblock does not depend on the entry
<SteveA> so, try: self.context.remove(entry) except: ForbiddenAttributeError  do stuff
<SteveA> or just allow the forbidden error to occur
<SteveA> but let's look at this as two separate issues
<SteveA> the first is that you can abstract out the pattern of these three methods
<SteveA> into a do_stuff_across_entries(self, action_callable, notify_callable)
<SteveA> where action_callable is a method that does the work like actually blocking / removing, given an entry
<SteveA> and notify_callable is a method that does the appropriate notification
<SteveA> or maybe just a notification string is enough
<SteveA> don't worry about getting the 1 thing 2 things wording right
<carlos> the string should be enough, yes
<SteveA> this will come automatically later, when we do launchpad l10n
<carlos> ok
<SteveA> the security stuff is a separate issue.  you can go with what you have, but file a bug about it, that it should use the standard security system rather than checking the details of the user
<carlos> SteveA, how can I use the security system if we don't have a specific web page for that object...
<carlos> I think I don't know the .zcml code for that, could you give me a hint, please?
<carlos> I prefer to fix it now if it's possible
<SteveA> i don't want you work on that now.  go with what you've got.  i think it might be a tricky change from where you're at now.
<carlos> ok
<SteveA> we'll tidy that part up once this is landed properly
<SteveA> so, i'll get on with the rest of the review.  thanks for going through these parts with me, carlos.
<carlos> SteveA, thanks to you for the input
<carlos> SteveA, do you need anything else? 
<carlos> I need to go out
* carlos -> out
<YuLin> sorry for my being away for a very long time
<YuLin> so, the idea is (if I get the point):
<YuLin> 1 -  I check whether there are relevant differences between fr_FR and fr_CH
<YuLin> 2 - I create the URL manually regarding the distro I want to translate in fr_CH (in the case I've found relevant differences with fr_FR)
<YuLin> 3 - I ask for the creation / create a Swiss French team
<YuLin> right ?
<SteveA> YuLin: check whether there are significant differences.  then, we have two ways to go.
<mdke> do you guys want bug reports for broken links in LP?
<kiko> mdke, YES :)
<SteveA> what i'd recommend is that you look for packages to translate where it makes a difference in this case
<SteveA> and translate those by using the URL
<mdke> kiko, k
<SteveA> if you find some other people who are also interested, and there are enough differences to make it worthwhile, then talk with us again about making a team and making the language more visiable. 
<YuLin> alright guys
<YuLin> thanks for everything =)
<YuLin> have a nice evening
<YuLin> ;)
<bradb_> When do we get the dedicated pqm server?
<bradb_> Landing is misery,  peine possible, without.
<ether3> hi I'm one of the admins of the openssi-team, but I can't add a calendar event on the project page.  Is there a bug for this already?
<ddaa> bradb_: you're defacing French...
<ddaa> " peine possible"
<ddaa> we do not have this twiddly diacritical the spaniard are so fond of.
<bradb_> we do here
<bradb_> c'est  dire, icitte
<ddaa> mh
<bradb_> :)
<ddaa> looks like an encoding problem
<bradb_> indeed
<bradb_> i see boxes when you type. do you see boxes when i type?
<ddaa> Na, I see "Atilde"
<ddaa> except the symbol
<bradb_> ew
<ddaa> looks like my gaim thinks it's using latin1... weird my locale is en_GB.UTF-8
<kiko-afk> hey niemeyer 
<niemeyer> Hiho
<SteveA> bradb: i see A+tilde when you type that.  like .  I'm pretty sure i'm using utf-8.
<mdke> triangular boxes?
<mdke> s/triangular/diamond
<kiko-afk> so am I
<mdke> i see diamond boxes, in irssi
<SteveA> kiko-afk: do you see e with a dot on top:  
<bradb_> hmph
<kiko-afk> SteveA, yes, though the char is very faint!
<bradb_>  -- better?
<mdke> i get the diamond box there
<mdke> but i think that is a well known issue with irssi
<SteveAirssi> tries to write 
<SteveA> aha
<SteveA> that was supposed to be 
<bradb_> madness
<bradb_> normally I use Colloquy on OS X so that I don't have to think about such things
* bradb_ waves to bradb
<SteveAirssi> testing 
<SteveAirssi> aha
<SteveA>  /set term_charset UTF-8 in irssi
<SteveA> bradb: there you go
<kiko-afk> 
<bradb_> SteveA: i already tried that
<mdke> :)
<sivang> SteveA: never worked for me as well, irssi problem?
<bradb_> an my gnome terminal is set to UTF-8
<bradb_> s/an/and/
<Seveas> Is there a way to remove people from the inactive members list in a group?
<salgado> Seveas, not yet, but there'll be one
<Seveas> salgado, gracias
<Seveas> any ETA on that already?
<Seveas> or is it just in the list of features-to-come? :)
<bradb_> SteveA: when do we get a new version of Zope 3, btw? I'm anxious to write a lot of tests for a lot of untested things.
<salgado> Seveas, it was speced during UBZ, but I haven't started implementing it yet
<Seveas> salgado, thanks again, good to know that it'll be implemented :)
<salgado> Seveas, you're welcome. :)
<SteveA> bradb_: as soon as i can.
<bradb_> ok :)
<niemeyer> ddaa: Where are you currently working on? branches branch?
<ddaa> I just started working on importd2bzr.
<ddaa> Not yet done my first commit.
<ddaa> The branches branch is merged.
<ddaa> I do not plan to commit anything new there.
<ddaa> Up to now, was busy gathering info for you and putting the importd deployment into the bzr brave new world.
<niemeyer> ddaa: Is it pushed already?
* niemeyer will branch from rocketfuel
<ddaa> Since I've not done my first commit, you can consider it's published at rocketfuel/launchpad/devel :)
<ddaa> I think we should not merge one another. These branches can land independently. That will make smaller reviews.
<niemeyer> ddaa: Was there a commit on rocketfuel though? ;)
<ddaa> niemeyer: many, but I don't claim all the credit :)
<niemeyer> ddaa: Yes, you're right.. even though depending on what you're doing we can break each other. But that's what bzr is for, right? :)
<niemeyer> ddaa: What I meant is that if we wanted to work on similar branches, I wouldn't be able to branch from rocketfuel since I could get something else. But no big deal..
<ddaa> yeah, since I'm making a new launchpad/script, there's a significant risk we step on one another's toes, but the smoother review is worth taking the risk.
<niemeyer> ddaa: launchpad/script?
<niemeyer> Are you changing bzrsync?
<ddaa> I mean launchpad/scripts
<ddaa> No, that's the driver for the custom baz2bzr lifeless promised for this week.
<ddaa> Entirely new code.
<niemeyer> Ack
<ddaa> Will be my first venture alone into bzrlib :)
<niemeyer> ddaa: Don't forget your towel..
<niemeyer> ddaa: And more importantly, don't panic.. :)
<ddaa> Not this week. I plan on panicking mid-january :)
<niemeyer> ddaa: You may panic when you discover that .remove() is in WorkingTree, and .add() is in Branch, for instance. :)
<ddaa> *gasp*
<niemeyer> ddaa: That's the kind of thing that a pie makes to a man..
* niemeyer looks to kiko..
<ddaa> I just need to do sftp pull and push, and some checking around that.
<ddaa> and calling baz2bzr
* ddaa wrap his towel round his face, just in case
* bradb_ loves this question: Shelve these changes, or restart? [yrsiq?]  (y)
<ddaa> hint: press "?"
<bradb_> "Are you happy with these changes, or do you want to erase your entire hard drive? [Yn] "
<ddaa> I find that a reasonably intuitive interface
<niemeyer> bradb: Is it a question? "You're sick?"
<ddaa> bradb_: bad faith, the shelve question accepts a "yes" answer.
<bradb_> ddaa: the point is this: to me "y" means yes. If the question is "did you like it or did you hate it?" what does the answeer "yes" mean?
<bradb_> s/answeer/answer/
<ddaa> bradb_: it's "do this, or do something else"
<niemeyer> "no"
<ddaa> "no" does not work
<ddaa> but "yes, do this" works
<ddaa> the alternative is "please do something else"
* bradb_ files a bug
<ddaa> maybe I have been exposed to Vorlon rethoric for too long...
<bradb_> ddaa: you too close to the source dude :)
<bradb_> s/you/you're/
<bradb_> or the legacy of it, in any case
<ddaa> Mh... in Vorlon rethoric, when one is close to the source, the thing to say is "Jump".
* niemeyer leaves..
<niemeyer> See ya
<tristee> alguien habla espaol?
<kiko> si hombre
<kiko> que pasa
<tristee> al cuanto tiempo
<tristee> llega los cd de ubuntu
<tristee> kiko ?
<kiko> tristee, entre 4 e 12 semanas
<kiko> y 12 
<tristee> mas no?
* sivang tries to parse :)
<lifeless> morning
<lifeless> ddaa: we have fields in the db for that diagnostic
<dsas> Hi people, I've got a quick rosetta question: What's the typical criteria for joining a translation team ?
<dsas> (for a ubuntu team) or is that a question for another channel?
<sivang> dsas: well, I guess that depends on the lanugage you want to join translating in, and maybe on past translation work that you do. At least that's how I filter my translation team approvals. (I tend to try and see how many good translations were done by each requester)
<sivang> dsas: since approved translator can actually overide others work, it's important to gain trsut in them before approving them
<dsas> ahh, only en_GB, I made 25ish "suggestions", but then thought maybe I should join the team first...So I applied and haven't heard anything back - so thought I'd misread some criteria or something....
<sivang> dsas: well, bnetter ask the administrator for that team
<sivang> dsas: I mean, directly. Basically if he's happy with you, he would probably go ahead and approve you.
<dsas> Yeah I dropped him an email a few days ago...there's been about 6 other people apply via launchpad who haven't been accepted too.
<dsas> or rejected.
<dsas> although the guy (mez) is a ubuntu developer and admins a bunch of other groups.. he's probably got a lot of other stuff on, i may just be being impatient :)
<sivang> dsas: interesting. he hasn't come online for a few days, IIRC
<sivang> dsas: (I know him)
<dsas> sivang: ahh ok, that probably explains things...I'll drop him a mail in a week to see what's happening.
<sivang> dsas: yes, that was going to be my next suggestion :) cool then, let me know if you didn't get anything sorted by next week ok?
<dsas> Wouldn't it be useful for a group to have more than one administrator wherever possible? That way if one person is busy another can pick up the slack?
<dsas> sivang: will do :)
<sivang> dsas: that is a great idea, you can bring this up on today's CC meeting (roghly 50 minutes from now, #ubuntu-meeting)
<sivang> dsas: 10:00UTC to be more precise
<dsas> sivang: Thanks, that gives me plenty of time to get some toast :) I'll come along.
<sivang> dsas: cool
<ddaa> lifeless: what diagnostic?
<lifeless> ddaa: 'what branches were mirrored today'
<ddaa> gn?
<ddaa> what are you answering to?
<lifeless> you and stub about cron job output
<ddaa> that was not about mirorring
<lifeless> it was about bzrsync right ?
<ddaa> yes
<lifeless> which is (in my head) the second step of mirroring
<lifeless> its what I meant anyway ;0
<ddaa> you can see it that way, but it's done by a different subsystem, asynchronously
<lifeless> indeed
<ddaa> BTW, I think bzrsync is indeed abusing the the mirroring status field.
<ddaa> But that's for the supermirror, not bzrsync.
<lifeless> probably. Maybe we should have two fields ?
<ddaa> I think it would indeed make sense to have a set of fields for driving and monitoring bzrsync.
<ddaa> BTW, I'd like this bazaar scanning thing to be called bazaard.
<ddaa> parallel to importd
<lifeless> well
<lifeless> if we have a smart server
<lifeless> bazaard should be that
<lifeless> so, I think bazaard for bzrsync would be squatting
<ddaa> couple of thoughts about that: 
<ddaa> bazaard does not squat, in the context of launchpad
<ddaa> and I'd think about the smart server as bazaarserv or something like that.
<lifeless> sure it does, as a smart server running on the supermirror is maintained by the same folk
<lifeless> httpd; smtpd; ftpd; there is a long history of 'the thing that implements the server protocol being PROTOCOL+d'
<ddaa> buildd
<ddaa> importd
<lifeless> right
<lifeless> importd does imports
<lifeless> buildd does builds
<lifeless> bazaard should do bazaar. And we have multiple bazaar things in play
<ddaa> bazaard does bazaar, that is the branch view in launchpad
<lifeless> bzrsyncd
<ddaa> That's starting to be too long an argument for its own sake. But I'd like to say that this "sync" concept makes me uncomfortable.
<ddaa> It's not syncing anything, it's scanning, scraping, importing...
<ddaa> btw I already sent a rt for creating a bazaard user.
<lifeless> cool
<lifeless> ish
<lifeless> so, find a name++. using bazaard for this--.
<ddaa> so, backto previous topic
<ddaa> I think it would indeed be useful to have a set of field to drive whateverd
<ddaa> and monitor
<lifeless> agreed
<ddaa> last successful sync time, last success status, whether an immediate sync is requested, maybe last attempt timestamp.
<ddaa> But it's not for right now.
<lifeless> right.
<lifeless> bzrscand perhaps ?
<lifeless> anyway, please consider the name heavily, I'm very uncomfortable with bazaard for this task.
<ddaa> okay, I'll pick some other name
<ddaa> i need to leave now, tomorrow I'd like to have a chat with you about the security implications of the stuff I have drafted this weekend to become the actual daemon.
<lifeless> ok
<ddaa> you know, my replacing-buildbot pet peeve :)
<lifeless> I suggest you email me
<lifeless> because I have slug and acs this week
<ddaa> good idea, I'll CC niemeyer and Kinnison, as we'll be looking for opportunities to consolidate with buildd.
<lifeless> given the various moving parts, I'm not at all sure replacing is the right thing, so I'd really like to see a gap analysis
<ddaa> The gap is simple: buildbot cannot do non-trivial scheduling.
<lifeless> email
<ddaa> ok
<ddaa> cya
<lifeless> night
<jordi> kiko-afk: man, you made it back
<kiko-afk> jordi, so I did, so I did
<jordi> kiko-afk: how did the adventure end?
<kiko-afk> in new york a few days later
<kiko-afk> I ended up rushing to the airport too, can you believe it?
<jordi> heh
<jordi> was it at direct flight?
<kiko-afk> yes, nyc to so paulo 
#launchpad 2006-11-20
<poolie> hello?
<Spads> hello poolie 
<BjornT> good morning
<jordi> hey
<jordi> how was the week in SF?
<Spads> exhausting
<jordi> I can believe that :)
<jordi> did kiko rent a bike?
<Spads> he must have, as some mornings he had clearly just been biking
* jordi envious
<niemeyer> Is there a XML-RPC interface in Malone yet?
<cprov> niemeyer: check https://xmlrpc.launchpad.net/malone/
<niemeyer> cprov!
<niemeyer> cprov: Will check it out, thanks
<cprov> niemeyer: np
<radix> there doesn't appear to be a way to search for all tickets that don't have a milestone
<radix> (that is to say, is there a way to search for tickets that don't have a milestone?)
<BjornT> radix: no, that's not possible at the moment.
<radix> ok
<radix> is there a way to get a list of tickets with a milestone column?
<BjornT> no, that's not possible either. milestone searching isn't that good, since we haven't used milestones much.
<radix> OK, I will deal :)
<BjornT> feel free to file bugs about the features you want, though :)
<radix> hmm
<radix> BjornT: I have now learned that apparently Release Management is going to obsolete using milestones for release management
<radix> I am not sure whether what I want to do is release management or milestones
* radix reads the spec
<radix> it seems rather distro-oriented
<LarstiQ> iirc, it should help with bzr release management too?
<BjornT> radix: ah, right. it could be that milestones will be obsolete, but maybe not, it depends on how the release managment works out.
<BjornT> the spec is distro-oriented, but it's meant to work for upstream products as well; targeting bugs to release series
<mpt> Gooooooooooooooooood afternoon Launchpadders!
* flacoste high fives mpt
* mpt hugs flacoste like they're best friends meeting for the first time in five years
<flacoste> yeah! I feel pumped (a little), good when a cold is starting
#launchpad 2006-11-21
<Ubugtu> New bug: #72648 in launchpad-support-tracker "Combine "Link Existing Bug" and "Create Bug Report"" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72648
<Ubugtu> New bug: #72658 in malone "Can't move a bug from product X to Y even if I'm a Y bug contact" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72658
<Ubugtu> New bug: #72669 in blueprint "No way of marking duplicate specifications" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72669
<jamesh> mpt: you left your USB headset in the hotel room when you left
<mpt> jamesh, oops
<mpt> Do you have it now?
<jamesh> mpt: yeah
<mpt> I brought it in the hope that I'd get some help in getting Ekiga working :-)
<mpt> I don't particularly need it though, so feel free to keep it
<jamesh> I can try and post it back if you want
<jamesh> I don't need a second headset, and it is yours
<mpt> I have a non-USB headset
<mpt> jamesh, so thanks, but it can wait until the next LP meeting :-)
<Ubugtu> New bug: #72282 in Ubuntu "After configuring my internet broadband connection to connect Ubuntu, it is not booting." [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72282
<sabdfl> dobra utra lunchpadders
<mpt> Haere mai!
<danilo_> sabdfl:   ;)
<sabdfl> hey danilos... think i need a refresher course
<danilos> sabdfl: nah, this is just Serbian, so not entirely the same, but similar enough to be understandablewe use "j" instead of "" for the same sound :) 
<danilos> also, check slovio.com: esperanto for Slavic people ;)
<laxer> is there anyone here?
<laxer> i've requested original CDs of older ubuntu version
<jamesh> laxer: currently the only version being shipped via shipit.ubuntu.com is dapper
<laxer> on the manual displays that the CDs will arrive from six to six weeks
<laxer> six to ten weeks*
<laxer> yes, i don't mind
<laxer> whether the CDs will arrive earlier than six weeks
<laxer> i'm from Bulgaria
<laxer> and I really want to install ubuntu on my pc :-0
<jamesh> laxer: the delivery time can be quite variable, which is why such a large range is given
<laxer> jamesh, okay
<laxer> and where the CD's come from?
<jamesh> laxer: if you want to get Ubuntu quicker, you could download an ISO image (maybe find a local mirror) and burn it to CD
<stub> They are shipped from Amsterdam, so they could well get to you quicker 
<laxer> it's great
<laxer> i'm from bulgaria as I already said
<laxer> amsterdam is comparatively near :>
<laxer> jamesh, my download speed is very slow
<laxer> 10 kb/sec
<laxer> if i download it with that speed it's better to wait the CDs
<laxer> because they'll arrive, but the downloading will be not finished :D
<laxer> OK, I'll wait for the CDs
<stub> You might be able to order a DVD from amazon.de too - not sure if the European amazon stocks the DVDs or if it is only the US store that does.
<laxer> where are you from?
<stub> http://www.ubuntu.com/products/GetUbuntu#localdistrib has some other distributers
<stub> Me? Bangkok.
<laxer> nice ;)
<jamesh> that's where you are, rather than where you're from :)
<laxer> :)
<stub> I'm too jetlagged to worry about metaphysics. Where are you from? Why are you here?
<laxer> :)
<laxer> so.. thanks guys
<laxer> i'll wait for that cds
<laxer> bye ;-)
<jonh_wendell> good morning. LP today started to show SSL-related warnings. Did it happen with you too?
<cprov> jonh_wendell: yes, it did
<Znarl> Sorry, that's my fault.  Corrected now.
<jonh_wendell> great
<cprov> Znarl: great, thank you
<stub> SteveA: What do we use now instead of config.launchpad.root_url ?
<stub> found it I think
<kiko> hello there boys and girls
<LarstiQ> heya kiko 
<kiko> how's it going LarstiQ 
<kiko> hey SteveA 
<kiko> back already?
<LarstiQ> kiko: busy :)
<SteveA> hi kiko 
<SteveA> stub: mainsite in the vhosts
<stub> Now need to use canonical_url(getUtility(ILaunchpadRoot), as mainsite.rooturl is often empty
<SteveA> use it for what?
<SteveA> that sounds a bit circular to me
<SteveA> as canonical_url will look to use mainsite.rooturl, and if that isn't found, use the URL of the current request
<SteveA> stub: your downtime announcement only just reached my mailbox
<radix> SteveA: I have been wondering if canonical mail is super laggy lately
<radix> I have been getting some notifications from launchpad up to 5 hours late, and some mailing list posts
<stub> SteveA: For doing redirects of /pillar/name to /name
<kiko> hey j-a-meinel: good discussion with the mozilla folks, eh?
<flacoste> kiko-fud, stub: is the plan tomorrow to do a production update? which revision is going to be rolled out?
<slytherin> jamesh: ping
<flacoste> BjornT, jamesh: ping
<kiko> flacoste, from stub's text it appears it's not a full rollout
<kiko> just downtime
<flacoste> ok
<flacoste> so it's not tomorrow that the new support^W answer tracker is rolled out
<kiko> hey SteveA?
<newz2000> could someone tell me what the userid (that moin would see) is for this user: https://launchpad.net/people/francisco-padilla-garcia
<newz2000> I need to find their user information in moin and it maps to an integer
<newz2000> anyone able to help? ^^
<j-a-meinel> kiko: Yeah, it is going pretty well. I'm not sure how things will progress with Thanksgiving being the next few days...
<kiko> j-a-meinel, I'll try and follow up to one of the emails to get a sense of the schedule
<kiko> j-a-meinel, has ddaa helped out in the import at all yet?
<j-a-meinel> thanks
<j-a-meinel> I haven't heard anything from ddaa
<kiko> mmmm
<j-a-meinel> I talked to Martin yesterday, and he thinks ddaa is taking some vacation time
<kiko> I see.
<j-a-meinel> But we haven't seen any actual comments from him.
<kiko> j-a-meinel, did the messages from the mozilla team sound positive?
<j-a-meinel> I think so. They at least sounded like they were following up on it.
<j-a-meinel> Rather than just ignoring it.
<kiko> yeah, was my impression as well
<kiko> I will see what I can do; pinging vlad and jst on irc
<j-a-meinel> thanks
<Ubugtu> New bug: #72730 in launchpad "Needs a way to use HTML in widget/hint" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72730
<kiko> newz2000, ping?
<newz2000> kiko: pong
<kiko> newz2000, so what can I do to help you?
<newz2000> kiko: this person is having trouble with the wiki: https://launchpad.net/people/francisco-padilla-garcia
<newz2000> I need to find out his uerid, an integer that moin gets from launchpad for relating userids to users
<kiko> newz2000, I wonder if it's Person.id. let's see.
<kiko> newz2000, try 925675
<newz2000> That looks right
<newz2000> Thanks kiko
<kiko> newz2000, enjoy.
<kiko> SteveA, ping?
<BjornT> flacoste: pong
<flacoste> BjornT: it's fine, i had a question about a point you raised in your review, but I've finally decided to file a bug about it
<flacoste> the widget/hint question, it didn't even work anymore because of the implementation of FormLayout
<flacoste> i'll comment on it at length in your review's reply which should arrive pretty soon
<BjornT> ok
<fdoving> can one delete a branch somehow? 
<fdoving> I have https://launchpad.net/people/frode/+branch/kio-apt/deleteme - i want that removed.
<kiko> fdoving, you can't at the moment -- it's a known bug
<fdoving> ok. can i somehow request it's removal, by an admin or something? 
<SteveA> kiko: hi
<niemeyer> Hey folks
<niemeyer> SteveA: What do you do when you cherrypick a change in production?
<niemeyer> SteveA: Is every production code effectively a separate branch which is kept alive forever for reference sake?
<niemeyer> SteveA: I mean, being replaced by a new branch based on trunk on each deployment
<niemeyer> And having cherrypicks effectively applied on the branched branch :)
<niemeyer> Hmm.. anyone here? :-)
<salgado> hey niemeyer 
<salgado> yes, that's how it works. we have a launchpad-production branch, IIRC
<salgado> actually, we create a new branch whenever we do a new rollout
<niemeyer> salgado: Heya
<niemeyer> salgado: Ah, cool
<SteveA> fdoving: hi.  Did you get your question about that branch answered?
<niemeyer> salgado: That makes sense
<fdoving> SteveA: yes, the initial question, but not the second one: 'can i somehow request it's removal, by an admin or something?' - thanks for asking :)
<niemeyer> salgado: I wonder how the branching evolves
<niemeyer> salgado: If each rollout branch is rebranched from trunk, and cherrypicks are redone each time
<niemeyer> salgado: Or if the new rollout branch is branched from the last rollout branch, and trunk is merged in
<niemeyer> stub might be the right one to ask about it
<salgado> niemeyer, I think it's branched from trunk, but I've never heard of a case in which it was branched from a revision that would still require cherry picks to be made
<SteveA> each production branch is branched from mainline
<niemeyer> salgado: I see
<salgado> but since I don't follow the roll outs closely enough, it may have happened
<kiko> hey SteveA 
<salgado> BjornT, around?
<newz2000> SteveA: I must have been prophetic when I was discussing the hypothetical authentication between the art-site and launchpad. I had no idea it was going to get bumped up on the priority list like that.
<newz2000> spiv: ping - msg me when you're online, I need to schedule a phone call at your earliest convenience.
<BjornT> salgado: yeah. i'm on the phone atm, though.
<salgado> BjornT, nevermind, actually. just found http://www.zope.org/Collectors/Zope3-dev/710
<SteveA> newz2000: there is going to be extra work involved in connecting it up to launchpad before we're ready with the new infrastructure
<newz2000> what are your concerns?
<SteveA> newz2000: I have no idea how important this is to us over the next few months.  This will take peoples' time.
<newz2000> I agree
<SteveA> it's a matter of finding out how important this is compared to other things folks could be doing
<SteveA> so, the first step is quite short -- finding out what would need doing
<newz2000> that's what I talk to spiv about, right?
<SteveA> then next week, you and I both report back with our findings, and we come to a decision about whether it is worth the extra work
<SteveA> newz2000: yes -- work out exactly what is involved and rougly how long it will take.  Andrew has done the work for the wikis before, so he'll have some idea.
<newz2000> ok
<SteveA> I'll also note that Andrew is likely to be about 10 hours jetlagged
<lifeless> hes likely to be awake in about 5 hours
<newz2000> ok
<lifeless> SteveA: the time diff is 5 hours from SF to here, but hes not a morning person when at home :)
<newz2000> wow, I'm about equidistant (timezone) from Steve and the Syndey folks.
<newz2000> I'll be gentle on him... hopefully we can get it figured out today though, as I'm off for the rest of the week.
<lifeless> newz2000: I suggest you email him to get him to schedule the call with you
<newz2000> lifeless: done, just duplicating it here, to cover both bases
<lifeless> kk
<SteveA> kiko: ping
<kiko> SteveA, ping
<newz2000> is it ok to set a mailing list as the contact address for a team?
<flacoste> newz2000: yeah, that's a common use case
<flacoste> it means that mail to this team should be sent to the mailing list
<newz2000> My list is subscriber post only... how do I find out what e-mail address to subscribe to the list so that launchpad can send to it?
<flacoste> hmm, it will depends of what application the mail come from
<flacoste> for example, notification mail from the support^W answer tracker comes from ticketXX@support.launchpad.net
<flacoste> bug mail notifications will come from bugXX@bugs.launchpad.net (or something like that)
<newz2000> tricky
<flacoste> if you want the team to receive mail from launchpad you might be better to simply not set any email address
<flacoste> individual team members will be mailed directly in that case
<flacoste> but, this only works if all team members are registered in launchpad...
<newz2000> that might take a little thinking to figure out the best way to handle then
<newz2000> Thanks for the info flacoste
<flacoste> my pleasure :-)
<newz2000> spiv: how are you today?
#launchpad 2006-11-22
<kiko> SteveA, will there be a rollout with that update?
<SteveA> kiko: I'm missing the context of your question
<kiko> SteveA, launchpadproductionstatus
<SteveA> I expect so
<kiko> SteveA, but you do not know so
<kiko> ?
<SteveA> kiko: I do not know so.  The usual procedure is that Stuart announces the expected revision to be rolled out in the launchpad meeting.  There was no launchpad meeting.
<kiko> true, true.
<SteveA> Nonetheless, I expect stuart will choose a suitable revision to roll out.
<kiko> hopefully
<SteveA> we should have a "minimal things to do in the absence of a launchpad meeting" list
<SteveA> added some notes to the MeetingAgenda page
<kiko> or alternatively stub could tell us his plans in more detail :)
<LarstiQ> :)
<SteveA> yes.  the point of the section "what do we need to do when we don't have a meeting" is so that Stuart is given this clear expectation
<SteveA> we expect him to publish his plans whether or not we have a meeting.
<kiko> agreed.
<spiv> newz2000: not too bad, but still not totally healthy.
<spiv> newz2000: I picked up a bit of a cold in SF
<poolie_> SteveA: hello?
<SteveA> hi poolie_ 
<SteveA> how's it going?
<poolie_> good, how about a quick call?
<jml> poolie_, SteveA: hello
<SteveA> hi jml 
<SteveA> poolie_: sure, in 10 mins?
<poolie_> ok, just call me on skype when you're ready
<SteveA> ok
<newz2000> spiv: I'm going to put my son go bed in about 30 min, would you have time after that to do a telephone call about launchpad auth related stuff?
<mpt> Gooooooooooooooooood afternoon Launchpadders!
<newz2000> which one is right, ubuntu or ubuntuweb?
<newz2000> oops
<spiv> newz2000: sorry, was at lunch.
<spiv> newz2000: we can do the call now if you like.
<newz2000> cool
<newz2000> spiv: what's your number? (and country code if you know it)
<spiv> newz2000: the one in the email was correct.
<spiv> newz2000: I can also do skype if you prefer.
<newz2000> I don't have a good mic
<spiv> Fair enough.
<newz2000> I use vonage so phone calls to au are only $0.05/min
<newz2000> ok, calling now
<jml> poolie_: around?
<poolie_> jml: hello
<newz2000> lifeless: fixed the bazaar link on canonical.com, fyi
<Ubugtu> New bug: #72815 in launchpad "Stop "rebalancing" karma, and base it on effort instead" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72815
<stub> What was the Launchpad help wiki again?
<jamesh> stub: help.launchpad.net
<mpt> heh
<mpt> poor unloved help.launchpad.net
<stub> I've moved https://help.launchpad.net/KarmaCalculation there from the private wiki
<stub> malcc: Remind me what happens again if I kill the publisher?
<malcc> stub: It's possible for it to cause confusion, as it forgets which suites need index files regenerated
<stub> malcc: Do you recall approximately how long runs are taking these days?
<malcc> stub: Last I checked they were mostly done by half past. I'm just re-checking now in case it's changed, I haven't looked at it for two weeks
<stub> Half past will be fine
<malcc> stub: Looks like death row just started, which means two things: It'll be about ten minutes more, and also killing it now is much less worrying if you need to
<stub> malcc: ok. Thanks.
<stub> malcc: Can I roll out the new production launchpad branch to drescher? It is HEAD-1.
<malcc> stub: I know of no reason why not. cprov?
<cprov> malcc: no, we can rollout soyuz as well
<malcc> stub, cprov: Hmm, looks from LaunchpadProductionStatus like there's still a local patch to disable b-f-n
<malcc> cprov: Do we definitely not need that anymore, is it being switched on, or in rocketfuel now?
<cprov> malcc: it wasn't discussed yet, I would simple re-apply it for now and sort details with distro-team later
<cprov> malcc: we have enough b-f-n emails to investigate, though
<stub> I have pushed out the new branch to codelines/soyuz-production. I'll let you guys decide if it needs patching and bring it all back up after the rollout is finished
<stub> Erm... still pushing...
<malcc> stub: Ok cool
<malcc> cprov: Sounds like we just need to apply r4164 from the current codeline to the new one before switching over
<stub> r4257 of rocketfuel is what was rolled out if that makes a difference
<cprov> malcc: correct
<malcc> stub: Done pushing?
<stub> malcc: All done and the db is back up. Go for it.
<Spads> atomic batteries to power
<Spads> turbines to speed
<malcc> stub: So I did my merge and ran make, but there seem to be some problems
<malcc> stub: <Keybuk> AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'use_https'
<malcc> Hmm, it's a config reading problem
<stub> Yup
<stub> Which config file is used?
<malcc> ftpmaster
<stub> Need to copy the <virtual_hosts> section from production/launchpad.conf to ftpmasters
<stub> I'll update rocketfuel - there are other configs with the same problem that need updating - but you might as well fix it live now.
<jamesh> stub: we don't seem to get the revno displayed in the page footer for production
<jamesh> hmm.  Looks like the bzr-version-info.py file only gets generated by "make run"
<jamesh> not "make start"
<stub> jamesh: I'm landing a fix with the config file updates
<jamesh> of course, the revno shown on production can't be directly correlated to the rocketfuel version ...
<snail> is bug reporting dead? or have i broken something on my end?
<jamesh> snail: there was a rollout a little while ago.  Could you be more specific about the problem you ran into?
<jamesh> did you get an error page with an OOPS number on it?
<snail> the problem is "Firefox can't find the server at bugs.launchpad.net."
<SteveA> good morning
<stub> looking into it
<SteveA> malcc: looks like a lack of testing problem, maybe
<SteveA> hmm, maybe just a lack of "functional testing" though
<SteveA> we don't do so well at testing different live-style configs -- in other words, the test configuration is fuller than it ought to be in many cases
<stub> Testing the configs is a pita, as loading the config can cause code to be executed (such as listening for HTTP requests on ports)
<jamesh> stub: here, code.launchpad.net, blueprints.launchpad.net, translations.launchpad.net and answers.launchpad.net point to 82.211.81.244
<jamesh> while launchpad.net points to 82.211.81.179
<jamesh> and I don't see an A record for bugs.launchpad.net
<stub> yup. already talking to admins. the existing mx overrides the wildcard A record.
<jamesh> snail: try changing the URL from "bugs.launchpad.net" to "launchpad.net"
<snail> jamesh that works
<jamesh> stub: is it correct that the wildcard record points to a different IP to launchpad.net?
<snail> but there are still broken links on pages such as https://launchpad.net/products/emacs
* Fujitsu notes some big inconsistencies with this rollout.
<jamesh> Fujitsu: anything specific?
<Fujitsu> jamesh: The menu-thingy on the left (Code, Bugs, Translations, etc.) is different on launchpad.net and launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu
<Fujitsu> (Blueprints and Answers on the root, Specifications and Support on the distro)
<jamesh> Fujitsu: yep.  that's a bug.
<Znarl> jamesh : It is correct the wildcard points to a different IP to launchpad.net
<Fujitsu> jamesh: A known one?
<jamesh> Fujitsu: please file a bug report
<Fujitsu> jamesh: That's what I was wondering.
<jamesh> Znarl: okay.  I was getting connection refused before.
<jamesh> seems to be working now though
<kiko> wow
<SteveA> hey kiko
<kiko> SteveA, jamesh, Znarl: I just got a 500 error posting to launchpad
<kiko> expected?
<kiko> i reloaded and it worked
<kiko> not the launchpad oops page
<kiko> a page that said 500 error
<highvoltage> hi. I'm getting..
<highvoltage> oh.
<highvoltage> what kiko said.
<kiko> highvoltage, not consistently, right?
<highvoltage> kiko: yep
<highvoltage> kiko: but there are places where I can reproduce it
<SteveA> kiko: I don't see any 500
<kiko> SteveA, it's not consistent.
<highvoltage> kiko: go to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ and enter usplash in 'jump to product'
<highvoltage> that does it consistently for me.
<kiko> that URL does not load for me at all
<kiko> SteveA, pretty severe outage in one of the appservers?
<SteveA> aha
<SteveA> I get it on bugs.
<stub> I've just switched the live systems to using bugz.launchpad.net instead of bugs.launchpad.net until peoples DNS caches have had a chance to flush
<SteveA> kiko: not an app server issue.  DNS/vhosting
<kiko> SteveA, I think it's a pound or apache error page, yeah, now that I think of it.
<highvoltage> looks like an apache error page to me.
<stub> As far as I'm aware, the rollout is now done. Ping me if not and I'll have a look after a shower
<SteveA> meeting time
<SteveA> Welcome to the first post-canonical-all-hands Launchpad development meeting
<malcc> Is it Thursday already?
<SteveA> oh?
<SteveA> it's wednesdaty still
<SteveA> wow! jetlag!
<SteveA> see, I was up until 4am, wide awake with SF timezones
<malcc> Well on the bright side, you've made me feel a lot better about my own jetlag ;)
<SteveA> and so I think it's thursday today
<jordi> meeting time?
<jordi> oh ok
<jordi> crazy :)
<SteveA> jordi: you have plenty of notice for tomorrow's meeting now :-)
<jamesh> stub: the cached DNS for bugs.launchpad.net has probably expired by now
<jamesh> or maybe another 10 minutes or so
<jordi> SteveA: :)
<salgado> BjornT, around?
<BjornT> hi salgado 
<salgado> hi BjornT. on your review you asked me to use an absolute URL on the Location header of my test of a page redirect. any specific reason for that?
<BjornT> salgado: iirc, the http specification specifies that it should be an absolute URL. don't bother with it if it's too much work doing it, though, i think all browsers can cope with relative URLs on redirects.
<salgado> BjornT, it's not much work, but I need to figure out where to get the old config.root_url from
<BjornT> salgado: canonical_url(getUtility(ILaunchpadRoot)) might work.
<salgado> BjornT, that doesn't work because the call to getUtility() would be in the class definition, outside of a method
<salgado> I have a redirect('/prefs', '%s/+editmylanguages' % canonical_url(getUtility(...)))
<BjornT> salgado: ah, right. i'd say redirect() should make sure that the URL is an absolute URL then. it's probably better to simply file a bug about it and fix it later, though.
<salgado> ahhh, redirection can be a descriptor
<salgado> that doesn't make any difference, actually
<salgado> will file a bug
<BjornT> kiko: ping
<kiko> BjornT!!!
<BjornT> hi kiko. i've updated the malone guided filebug ui to be more like the answer tracker's. do you want to take a look at it?
<kiko> yes!
<kiko> I need some minutes
<BjornT> ok, cool. i'll set up a demo instance.
<BjornT> kiko: http://84.32.240.183:12345/
<kiko> good man
<kiko> BjornT, SteveA: I should point out sometime how hard the launchpad.dev thing makes it to test people's remote sites. is there something I could do to help this apart from manually editing etc hosts every time?
<kiko> BjornT, the port is bustage?
* kiko needs to restart firefox
<BjornT> kiko: it doesn't work? does http://lp.grammatista.org/ work better?
<kiko> DNS!
<kiko> BjornT, with :12345 yes
<kiko> BjornT, oh, but the URLs are still launchpad.dev
<kiko> BjornT, would a stunnel work I wonder
<kiko> like ssh -R or something
<BjornT> kiko: try again
<kiko> perfecto
<BjornT> cool. we definitely should try to make these kind of things easier, though...
<kiko> BjornT, okay, and +package needs to be removed at some point
<kiko> is there a bug on that?
<BjornT> there should be, i'll look for one
<kiko> BjornT, can we say "Most common bugs reported"?
<kiko> or "Bugs most frequently reported"?
<kiko> BjornT, is it worth labelling the first field as Summary, given that's what it is?
<kiko> BjornT, also the <title> for that page is complete crack
<kiko> it says "Is..." here
<BjornT> kiko: what's the first field labeled as now?
<kiko> it says nothing
<kiko> it says [          ]  Continue
<BjornT> kiko: right. it'd be worth putting a "Summary" label there.
<BjornT> kiko: "Bugs most frequently reported" sounds good
<kiko> BjornT, just to hint to the guy that this will be used as a summary
<BjornT> yeah
<kiko> BjornT, could you prefix the "You may prefer the ..." text with "This guided form will try and locate bugs related to yours" or something like that?
<BjornT> sure
<SteveA> jamesh: ping
<jamesh> SteveA: pong
<kiko> bugs related or similar to yours perhaps BjornT 
<kiko> BjornT, the center-alignment of the summary is a bit weird, until you realize it's a two-column table
<BjornT> kiko: how about "This guided form will try to help you find out whether your bug has already been reported."?
<kiko> BjornT, that's excellent
<kiko> BjornT, any reason not to use the listing view for the bugs instead of a table?
<kiko> BjornT, I really liked your work there
<BjornT> kiko: i wonder whether we still have a listing view that works? a listing view might be nicer, since it can contain more information, and we should display only a short list of bugs.
<kiko> BjornT, it should still work
<BjornT> i can try using it and see how it works.
<kiko> BjornT, good job
<kiko> BjornT, did you note the <title> issue I pointed out?
<flacoste> kiko: i'll try writing today the blurbs relating to rolled-out changes to the support^W answer tracker for your Launchpad report. i'm not too late i hope?
<kiko> flacoste, not at all! I'm expecting you
<kiko> flacoste, how's your gf btw?
<flacoste> great
<flacoste> kiko: she's fine, really pleased that I'm back. we are now preparing mentally for The Event
<kiko> flacoste, thank god she's pleased! the event will be fun. mid-dec is it?
<flacoste> about that yes, in 3-4 weeks
<BjornT> kiko: yeah, i'll fix the <title> issue as well.
<kiko> BjornT, wonderfu
<salgado> hey kiko. is it okay to merge my mirror-reassignment-and-others branch? 
<kiko> salgado, did I finish reviewwing it?
<kiko> (I can't remember)
<salgado> on your review you asked one question and I answered it
<kiko> what was the question?
<salgado> kiko, just bounced my reply
<kiko> thanks
<kiko> salgado, it wasn't clear by your answer if you were going to do that now or later
<flacoste> what is the rationale for using bugz.launchpad.net instead of bugs.launchpad.net?
<kiko> flacoste, the DNS was hosed apparently 
<kiko> because some people already had dns.launchpad.net in their caches
<flacoste> so this is transient?
<kiko> yes
<salgado> kiko, I'll do it later
<kiko> salgado, mmmm. ok I guess. your test was not very nice
<salgado> was not very nice? that's the opposite of what you said on your review!
<kiko> well
<iwj> Hi.  I just got a `500 Internal Server Error' from LP.
<iwj> https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/unified-login-unlock-screen
<salgado-lunch> iwj, looks like a problem with the features domain
<salgado-lunch> try https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/unified-login-unlock-screen
<salgado> SteveA, known problem ^?
<iwj> Thanks.
<iwj> Yes, that worked.
<snail> iwj: that feature seems related to my bug-du-jure https://bugz.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/libpam-openafs-session/+bug/68361
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 68361 in libpam-openafs-session "pam authenticate " [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
<SteveA> iwj: was that a bookmarked page?
<SteveA> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/unified-login-unlock-screen
<SteveA> that's the link you get from within launchpad
<SteveA> hmm, I guess many links on the wiki will point to "features"
<salgado> yeah, I thought we'd keep the old URLs working for some time
<SteveA> I asked that in the rollout:
<SteveA> Also, we should ask the admins to do a permanent redirect in apache from `features.launchpad.net/.*` to `blueprints.launchpad.net/\1` so that we don't break links. || 
<SteveA> I guess that hasn't happened  :-(
<SteveA> I'll talk with the admins...
<iwj> SteveA: I got that URL from some wiki page.
<SteveA> iwj: ok. thanks.  soon, it will do a perm. redirect.
<SteveA> thanks for mentioning the issue here.
<iwj> I've edited the pages I'm tripping over to have non-features... url's.
<iwj> NP.
<iwj> Thanks for getting me unblocked.
<SteveA> we'd planned to avoid the broken links, but the plan was not carried out to completion.
<kiko> hello hello loverboys and girls
<SteveA> Spads: yes, great now.  thanks
* Spads nods
<cprov> Znarl: ping
<Znarl> cprov : Pong?
<cprov> Znarl: hi, can you, please, check the RT 23633 ?
<cprov> Znarl: the problem still happen and I have no idea about what is causing it.
<kiko> Znarl, if you help cprov out of this train-wreck he will share his firefighting helmet with you
<Znarl> cprov : Interesting.  Jubany was upgraded this morning to dapper.  Do you know when it started happening?
<cprov> kiko: aha, we can buy another one for him, I got myself emotionally attached to this one.
<kiko> Znarl, it's been happening since sunday.
<cprov> Znarl: monday, I guess, let me check
<kiko> Znarl, and we think it's a networking issue; at least the last times something similar happened it was
<kiko> cprov, oh, monday, not sunday?
<cprov> kiko: 17th 5 occurences;  20th, 1; 21th a lot ...today, 9
<Znarl> We've had no major changes or down time on the LAN in the DC for some time now.
<kiko> cprov, can you run a ping to jubany?
<cprov> kiko: Znarl: then I guess it can only be explained by high usage in drescher
<cprov> kiko: sure, 0.131/0.133/0.137/0.013 ms
<Znarl> That's possible, we've got a failed disk in drescher today - which will cause the system to go slower than normal.
<Znarl> Drescher and jubany are on the same switch too, nothing in between to cause problems.
<cprov> Znarl: the problem is more like to be in jubany, as you can see in the error message
<cprov> Znarl: it must have been requested too often by drescher monster queries, can we look on jubany psql logs for something suspect ?
<Znarl> fiera@launchpad_prod/14591 2006-11-22 11:28:07 GMT LOG:  unexpected EOF on client connection
<Znarl> That appears 1542 times today.
<cprov> Znarl: ehe, nice dialog: drescher: wot about this conn? / jubany: dunno  / drescher: me neither / *boom*
<cprov> Znarl: do you think this disk problem in drescher might be causing it indirectly ?
<Znarl> A failed disk should cause only slower IO, nothing else.
<Znarl> ...and it failed this morning too.
<cprov> Znarl: yes, very unlikely to be it. So, no idea and no expectation to have any during the next few days, let's keep just watching.
<Znarl> This may be a case for stub to have a look at.  
<cprov> Znarl: good idea, will send an email to the list, thanks
<dholbach> hello, where can i ask for voodoo like renaming a product from "feisty-session-splashesv" to "feisty-session-splashes"? :-/
<flacoste> dholbach: https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+addticket
<dholbach> flacoste: thank you very much
<pirast> My subscription to a team is expired. What can I do when I want to rejoin?
<salgado> pirast, right now the only thing you can do is talk to the team admins and ask them to renew
<pirast> salgado, k thanks
<salgado> in the future it'll be possible to either renew your own subscription or tell the admins (through launchpad) that you want to have it renewed
<salgado> lifeless, are you awake already? :)
<salgado> or maybe SteveA?
* salgado is looking for somebody to have a pre-implementation phone call with
<SteveA> salgado: I'm around but I need to take a break for a while.  I'll be around later.
<salgado> SteveA, that's fine. will you have some time for a pre-implementation call tomorrow? I can try to discuss it with kiko if you don't, so it's no big deal
<salgado> actually, he just came back; I'll bother him
<kiko> sure I can help
<kiko> SteveA, I helped salgado
<flacoste> kiko: can the blurbs for the report wait until tomorrow?
<kiko> flacoste, flacoste, flacoste!
<flacoste> kiko: I would have liked to finish tt-search-localized-requests before starting the blurb, but I can postpone that if you are waiting on me
<kiko> flacoste, it's okay. I can wait.
<flacoste> you'll have it tomorrow, i promise :-)
<kiko> flacoste, I know I will. :-)
#launchpad 2006-11-23
<mpt> Goooooooooooooooooood afternoon Launchpadders!
<jamesh> stub: I haven't received any bug mail since the rollout
<kiko-zzz> stub, same here.
<jamesh> stub: also, it should be safe to switch bugz.launchpad.net back to bugs.launchpad.net -- the TTL on the record was just 1 hour
<mpt> kiko-zzz, check out https://launchpad.net/products/shan
<jamesh> mpt: is that better or worse than using the spec tracker to submit uuencoded patches?
<jamesh> mpt: the text is a copy of https://launchpad.net/products/malone/+bug/1922/comments/2
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 1922 in malone "Unhelpful "Invalid value" error when requesting fix for non-existent package/product" [Critical,Confirmed]  
<poningru> is it possible to create a team under another team?
<poningru> like I want to create a press team under the marketing team
<mpt> jamesh, I know, I was pointing it out to kiko because in bug 1922 he thought it was sivang, but I'm pretty sure it's not
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 1922 in malone "Unhelpful "Invalid value" error when requesting fix for non-existent package/product" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/1922
<poningru> so anyone?
<jamesh> poningru: yes.  A team can be a member of another team
<poningru> ok cool thanks
<jamesh> so if team A is a member of team B, then all of team A's members are effectively members of team B
<jamesh> (for purposes of security, notification, etc)
<poningru> so there is no way to do tree style team management?
<jamesh> I thought I just said that it is possible.
<poningru> but thats not exactly the same though...
<poningru> meh this is good enough
<jamesh> poningru: can you describe what you want exactly?
<jamesh> you might be thinking about the membership in the wrong direction
<poningru> yeah probably... I didnt really think this through
<poningru> just was wondering why there is no ... "create team under this team" link...
<jamesh> if the press team is meant to be composed of the marketing team plus some other people, then just make the marketing team a member of the press team
<poningru> but your way makes sense
<poningru> no the former
<jamesh> so all press team members should be marketing team members?
<jamesh> in that case, make the press team a member of marketing team
<poningru> yes
<poningru> yeah thats what I am gonna do
<poningru> thanks
<poningru> :)
<SteveA> good morning
<jml> morning
<SteveA> stub: got sometime to chat about beta.lp.net ?
<SteveA> hi jml 
<SteveA> jml: how long are you around for today?
<jml> SteveA: another four or five hours probably.
<SteveA> ok, how about we have a call in 3.5 hrs?
<jml> SteveA: sounds good
<lifeless> SteveA: I'd like to have a voice call about the TBR proposal
<SteveA> lifeless: sure.  nowish or later?
<SteveA> jml: deal.
<lifeless> SteveA: Nowish would be better
<SteveA> lifeless: I can do 10 mins time
<lifeless> ok
<SteveA> at 15 mins past hr
<lifeless> ok, skype
<lifeless> ?
<SteveA> ok
<stub> SteveA: ok
<lifeless> SteveA: your skype is offline apparently
<stub> SteveA: ok
<mpt> hi SteveA 
<ajmitch> has a bug been filed about the lack of bug mail (at least for ubuntu)
<mpt> no
<mpt> (Or if it has, it's not in the malone product)
<crimsun> right, I see James has mentioned it in passing at least: 21:52 < jamesh> stub: I haven't received any bug mail since the rollout
<stub> Its currently blocked on someone with root on the relevant boxes having a look at the logs.
<mpt> Ah, but it's a pleasure to be able to modifier+click on the location bar links now, and for them not to jump around on every page load
<mpt> Well done SteveA 
<stub> I've just sent in an rt request so it won't get dropped (by our end at least)
<spiv> mpt: ooh, finally
<mpt> wha!
<mpt> jamesh, you landed FormLayout on mainline?
<mpt> Mainline's page layout isn't wide enough to handle it :-)
<mpt> (that was supposed to be ":-(" )
<jamesh> mpt: just make your browser window a bit wider
<jamesh> mpt: in the long run, we should revise the labels we're using for the form widgets
* mpt buys another monitor and sellotapes it alongside
<jamesh> it looks fine with a 2560 pixel wide browser window
<mpt> heh
<mpt> Sorry, I mistakenly assumed you were going to land it on ui-one-zero only
<jamesh> actually, it looks a bit weird if I stretch it that wide :)
<jamesh> maximising a 2560 pixel wide window makes it smaller with metacity ...
<SteveA> can we make the form layout choices a config option?
<SteveA> or some kind of in-code option
<SteveA> so we can turn it on only on the 1.0 branch?
<jamesh> mpt: are there particular forms/page sizes that cause problems?
<jamesh> things looked okay when I was testing it
<jamesh> mpt: currently launchpad.css has "label { white-space: nowrap; }" which exacerbates the problem on smaller screens
<SteveA> mpt: I shall fix bug 72831
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 72831 in launchpad "Left-hand menu is inconsistent with the latest roll-out" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72831
<SteveA> weird... police cars here sound like a fairground ride
<mpt> jamesh, I was looking at the bug edit page in particular
<mpt> SteveA, are you sure they're not ice cream trucks?
<mpt> jamesh, the "separated by whitespace" could go in a hint underneath
<jamesh> mpt: yeah.  That does look a lot better
<mpt> SteveA, do you have time to explain a little about TALES?
<mpt> I've read the relevant part of the specification and it doesn't help
<mpt> I want to set a class on an element if some other attribute has been defined in an ancestor element
<mpt> <tal:layout define="columns1 default">
<mpt>    ...
<mpt>       <div tal:attributes="something if columns1 is set, and something else if it's not">
<jamesh> mpt: with python 2.4, the closes you can do is tal:attributes="class python:columns1 and value_if_true or value_if_false"
<jamesh> python 2.5 lets you write it as "value_if_true if condition else value_if_false", but that is not an option for LP at the moment
<mpt> ah, nifty
<mpt> jamesh, that works when the variable is set, but it gives "NameError: name 'columns1' is not defined' if it isn't
<jamesh> yep.
<jamesh> are you using macros or something?
<jamesh> where the tal:attributes may be evaluated with or without columns1 set?
<mpt> main-template.pt contains conditional stuff based on whether columns1 is set
<mpt> tal:condition="columns1|nothing"
<mpt> Then other templates have <tal:layout define="columns1 default"> as their first line
<jamesh> mpt: okay.  Just do something like this then:
<mpt> But in this case, I don't want a section that's there or not there, I just want it to have a different class=
<jamesh> <div tal:define="columns1_or_none columns1|nothing" tal:attributes="class ...">
<jamesh> using columns_1_or_none
<mpt> ooh, magic
<mpt> thank you jamesh
<Ubugtu> New bug: #72933 in rosetta "d4x translation template missing" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72933
<Ubugtu> New bug: #72939 in malone "Missing newline in bug details box if bug is flagged as security" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72939
<Ubugtu> New bug: #72831 in launchpad "Left-hand menu is inconsistent with the latest roll-out" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72831
<Ubugtu> New bug: #72838 in launchpad "testbrowser sets HTTP_REFERER to the string 'localhost'" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72838
<Ubugtu> New bug: #72848 in soyuz "Description field format features are probably destroyed when we parse the control file" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72848
<Ubugtu> New bug: #72849 in launchpad "redirection should redirect to an absolute URL even when called with a relative one" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72849
<Ubugtu> New bug: #72866 in launchpad-support-tracker "My Requests report OOPses" [Critical,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72866
<mpt> heh
<Ubugtu> New bug: #72977 in launchpad-bazaar "Instructions for hosting branches should be on product Code page" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72977
<Keybuk> stub: so I have bug mail from yesterday
<Keybuk> and from this morning
<Keybuk> but appear to be missing any from overnight
<stub> Keybuk: It should all be in a queue somewhere.
<Keybuk> ok, so it's not a fifo?
<stub> Keybuk: we had about 24 hours worth backed up
<stub> I don't know if our end is a fifo, and the relays between Launchpad and you are probably not fifos.
<carlos> morning!
<SteveA> jml: be with you shortly
<seb128> hi
<seb128> what is the way to open a backport task now?
<seb128> there used to be an option to the left column of the bug page for that
<seb128> seems it has been dropped
<BjornT> seb128: which bug are you looking at? i can see the link for opening a backport task.
<seb128> I can see it too now
<seb128> in fact I was browsing https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gnome-vfs2/+bug/71586
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 71586 in gnome-vfs "Spontaneous SJ Death" [Unknown,Unknown]  
<seb128> I added an upstream task
<seb128> that moved me to the upstream product context
<seb128> which don't have the option
<seb128> it's pretty confusing
<seb128> s/it/that
<BjornT> ah, right. yes, we probably should display the backport link no matter what context you're in.
<seb128> I would say you should not silently change the context when somebody add an upstream task
<seb128> should I open a bug about that?
<BjornT> yeah, that'd be good. i agree that we shouldn't change the context when adding new tasks.
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> BjornT: https://bugs.launchpad.net/products/malone/+bug/72981
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 72981 in malone "adding a task should not change the context" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
<BjornT> thanks seb128 
<seb128> np
<Ubugtu> New bug: #72981 in malone "adding a task should not change the context" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72981
* Keybuk spots a "MiB" on Launchpad
<Keybuk> who do I need to speak to about that, and where do they live? :p
<spiv> Keybuk: bzr annotate blames kiko
<Keybuk> MiB is fucking stupid
<malcc> Take it up with the IEEE
<Keybuk> MB is well understood, and only irritates hard drive manufacturers
<malcc> It doesn't irritate them - they *love* how the general use and the official one are different, allowing them to claim larger drives without getting into trouble
<SteveA> Men in black...
<SteveA> Keybuk: I already lost point on bzr, as documented in some bug somewhere
<Keybuk> "lost point" ?
<SteveA> lost that point
<SteveA> bzr uses MiB etc.
<SteveA> which I found odd
<SteveA> seeing as gnome appeared not to at the time
<SteveA> and gnome is my benchmark of open source usability thinking etc.
<jamesh> "bzr info"'s display of repository size
<SteveA> jamesh: did you get any further with seeing if there's a way to get a brazilian visa fast?
<jamesh> SteveA: no.  kiko didn't have any ideas other than including a letter asking them to handle it quickly.
<SteveA> I'm not confident about that.
<SteveA> So, we should delay that meeting for a time we can be sure you can get a visa.
<jamesh> SteveA: last time I got a visa it took about the quoted length of time, which is why I am not confident it would make a difference
<jamesh> most likely the Canbera consulate is one or two people working part time
<jamesh> (for visa matters and the like)
<SteveA> niemeyer: so, we need to look at dates next year for your meeting with jamesh.
<SteveA> I don't think we should consider a different location.
<niemeyer> SteveA: Right
<niemeyer> jamesh: Since you need the visa anyway, it might be interesting to try getting it ASAP
<niemeyer> If for some miracle they handle it quickly, we can do it soonish
<jamesh> niemeyer: I need an itinerary before I can apply for the visa
<niemeyer> jamesh: You can get an itinerary before confirming you're going to travel
<jamesh> iirc, Brazil generally makes the entrance requirements roughly equivalent to what the other country requires for Brazilian citizens
<jamesh> niemeyer: I'd prefer if we could organise a time when I know I'll be able to get a visa
<niemeyer> jamesh: Of course
<niemeyer> jamesh: Februrary 5th-9th?
<mhb> hi everyone
<jamesh> that'd be fine.  The week before would also be fine.
<mhb> I'd like to know if there has been some progress on bug 68014
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 68014 in rosetta "Rosetta reverts translation fixes to old faulty values" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/68014
<mhb> Carlos posted on the ML that it's going to take days, but it's been a month now
<SteveA> mhb: have you seen a problem with reverting translations recently?
<mhb> SteveA: IIRC this is why the upload is disabled in Rosetta
<mhb> completely
<mhb> isn't it?
<carlos> mhb: we are in the process, the fact that we had the UDS and another conference in the middle didn't help to finish it, but we are already showing who approved translations, so the only missing part is to enable again the upload form (and it's blocked on me finishing a better merge algorithm that will detect conflicts)
<mhb> carlos: I'm glad to hear that
<SteveA> mhb: you can also request from a rosetta admin to do an upload
<SteveA> hi matthewrevell 
<matthewrevell> SteveA: Hi!
<mpt> Hello Mr Revell!
<mhb> carlos: upload is the best way to correct mistakes in complex translations (because there is no search) so that's why I'd like it ASAP
<matthewrevell> mpt: Howdy :)
<carlos> mhb: agreed, It's my top priority now that I'm back at the office.
<mpt> and welcome to Canonical's Matthew Brigade
<mhb> carlos: so it's going to be possible before December?
<carlos> mhb: well, I hope it will be possible next week, it's not too complex what's missing, it was just that I hadn't time to do it
<matthewrevell> mpt: Yeah, I've heard that I'm about to become one of an increasing number of Matthews at the company.
<SteveA> matthewrevell: we should arrange to meet up sometime
<carlos> mhb: that planning includes our usual QA checks before rolling out it on production
<mhb> carlos: I'd be really happy if you managed to enable it next week
<carlos> mhb: anyway, as SteveA pointed, you can request us to do an upload for you if you have anything ready
<mhb> carlos: I can do most of it by hand
<carlos> ok
<kiko-zzz> heeeeeellllo
<mhb> carlos: I'm counting on you. 
<kiko-zzz> hello
<SteveA> sleeptalker!
<kiko-zzz> I had my drugs
<kiko-zzz> I rode my bike
<kiko-zzz> I am ready for the world-famous
<kiko-zzz> LAUNCHPAD MEETING
<carlos> mhb: ok, thanks
<carlos> kiko: just wait 1 minute ;-)
<SteveA> Launchpad Meeting time
<kiko> so it is
<kiko> welcome flacoste 
<SteveA> welcome to the launchpad development meeting
<kiko> first off: are you pumped?
<SteveA> who is here today?
<mpt> me
<carlos> me
<kiko> me
<cprov> me
<danilos> me
<jamesh> me
<salgado> me
<malcc> me
<flacoste> me
<BjornT> me
<SteveA> we are *so* pimped.
<malcc> Many a true word
<spiv> me
<SteveA> ddaa is on vac
<SteveA> stub sends apologies.
* raraavis is observing but will not participate
<mpt> Welcome raraavis 
* matthewrevell I'm observing too
<matthewrevell> :)
<mpt> When do you start, matthewrevell?
<danilos> jordi: ping
<matthewrevell> mpt: Next Thursday.
<SteveA> let's hope this doesn't turn into a UN sanctioned war zone
<mpt> cool
<matthewrevell> 29th
<kiko> raraavis, a toast to observers <wink>
<raraavis> :D
<SteveA> ok
<SteveA> == Agenda ==
<SteveA> * Roll call * Agenda
<SteveA>  * Next meeting
<SteveA>  * Activity reports
<SteveA>  * Actions from last meeting
<SteveA>  * Oops report (Matsubara)
<SteveA>  * Bug report report (mpt)
<SteveA>  * Production and staging (Stuart)
<SteveA>  * Launchpad 1.0 status reports
<jordi> pong, hello
<SteveA>  * Sysadmin requests
<SteveA>  * Time-based releases (Steve)
<SteveA>  * (other items)
<SteveA>  * Keep, Bag, Change
<SteveA>  * Three sentences
<SteveA> 
<SteveA> next meeting -- same time next thursday?
<SteveA> any objections, speak now
<SteveA> 5
<SteveA> 4
<SteveA> 3
<SteveA> 2
<SteveA> 1
<SteveA> thanks
<salgado> SteveA, matsubara is on vacation too
<mpt> (usual grumble)
<SteveA> someone with irc-fu please update the channel title
* ..[topic/#launchpad:malcc] : Developer meeting: Thu 30 Nov, 1200UTC (wiki:MeetingAgenda) | launchpad-users@lists.canonical.com (wiki:MailingLists) | Channel logs: http://tinyurl.com/72w39
<SteveA> thanks malcc 
<SteveA>  * Activity reports
<SteveA> who's hot and who's merely lukewarm?
<mpt> cold
<malcc> I'm positively chilly
<salgado> I'm hot
<mpt> but I will be up to date by tomorrow
<jamesh> cold
<flacoste> hot
<SteveA> cold
<cprov> cold (1 week behind)
<jordi> I have sent many of my pending reports, some old ones are missing, but generally better now
<danilos> cold myself
<BjornT> hot
<kiko> freezing
<kiko> but getting warmer
<kiko> I am waiting for niemeyer's new version of gtimelog packages.
<carlos> cold (I think I owe the ones from the week before UDS)
<danilos> kiko: does it do the timelogs without any intervention? :)
<spiv> warm -- I just sent the days since allhands, but I have stuff missing from before then.
<kiko> danilos, no, but it flashes what you are doing in the OSD!
<SteveA> all done?
<SteveA>  * Actions from last meeting
<SteveA>  * spiv to finish the damn `__eq__` for database objects action item
<SteveA>  * ddaa to propose updating of our wikis to the shiny new moin, somewhere his request won't be forgotten
<spiv> sqlobject __eq__: kiko reviewed my branch, thanks!
<spiv> I realised the proposed branch does not trap invalid cross-transaction comparisions, which was the original problem that brought this mess to our attention,
<spiv> but at the moment I have only failing tests rather than a fix.  I haven't looked at this since before allhands, so I don't remember more details atm.
<SteveA> I don't recall ddaa doing this.  this should remain on the agenda until next week when ddaa is here.
<kiko> spiv, most welcome.
<kiko> SteveA, that request should go to RT.
<kiko> (ddaa's)
<SteveA> kiko: do we want it?
<spiv> kiko: well, upgrading moin isn't exactly trivial
<spiv> kiko: it involves porting the authserver hackery to the new version.
<kiko> spiv, catching cross-xn comparisons shouldn't be too difficult if we can inspect the object's conn.
<SteveA> I don't find it important.  I think we should wait for openid stuff.
<spiv> I hear that newer versions of moin are more modular in this respect, but it's still non-trivial work to assess and then do.
<kiko> SteveA, well, I was commenting more on the process. I don't care much about moin myself but if developers think the new version will be more efficient, it should be considered
<spiv> kiko: that's what I thought, and yet my obvious attempts are still failing tests.
<SteveA> kiko: I agree, but I think we should *consider* it before getting an RT request put in for it.
<kiko> spiv, if you want to walk me through the tests and code I might be able to help
<SteveA> I want ddaa to be here to consider it with us, as he proposed it.
<SteveA> so, deferred until next week.
<kiko> SteveA, right -- if it's still up for grabs then it needs discussion before anything else. I have seen no launchpad email on this topic.
<jamesh> spiv: if only we could use a third party auth module for moin :)
<SteveA>  * reviewers to discuss ideas and principles for keeping branch review quick
<SteveA> did this happen?
<flacoste> not to my knowledge
<jamesh> I don't think we ended up discussing this at allhands
<SteveA> I don't think so either.
<SteveA> so, it stays until next week, and someone should add it to the review meeting agenda.
<SteveA> jamesh: would you do that please?
<SteveA>  * Oops report (Matsubara)
<jamesh> SteveA: okay
<SteveA> matsubara isnt' here
<SteveA> did he provide an oops report to anyone?
<salgado> not that I know of
<kiko> SteveA, I don't think allhands left him time for that. I can do an impromptu one
<SteveA> I noticed more than usual exceptions
<SteveA> so, I'm concerned
<kiko> ok.
<kiko> let's look at the oopses.
<kiko> first one I've never seen before:
<kiko>    8 AssertionError: badly formed entity: u'&amp'
<kiko>        3 https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/flashplugin-nonfree/+bug/66873/+index
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 66873 in Baltix "Flash 9 beta" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
<kiko> BjornT, does this look like something you've seen? If not, can you report a bug on it?
<kiko> -------------------------------------
<kiko> next up is 8 search_text oopses that flacoste fixed yesterday, but stub's questioning if it is worth cherrypicking
<jamesh> kiko: that's probably from the new word break code.
<kiko> I think it's worth it.
<kiko> jamesh, hmmmm. can you look into it, if you think you're a better eye for it?
* flacoste thinks too
<kiko> flacoste, it is a trivial patch
<kiko> and we will be oopsing for the next forseeable weeks
<flacoste> very so
<kiko> so stub (grrr where is stub) please roll it out.
<kiko> flacoste, I'll email to request this explicitly.
<kiko> moving on
<kiko> -------------------------------------
<SteveA> kiko: we have a procedure for this.  I want to check we're following it, or not following it for a good reason.
<kiko> we have an odd instantiation of selectresults in rosetta-index
<SteveA> Is there a critical bug related to the oopses + cherrypick request?
<flacoste> SteveA: there is
<kiko> SteveA, yes.
<SteveA> does the rollout involve a database patch?
<flacoste> bug 72866
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 72866 in launchpad-support-tracker "My Requests report OOPses" [Critical,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72866
<flacoste> SteveA: no database patch
<SteveA> then I support a cherrypick asap
<SteveA> I shall comment so in the bug
<kiko> SteveA, thanks. I think emailing stub directly will do the job -- do you want to take the matter in your hands? :)
<kiko> I was ready to do it.
<carlos> kiko: what's the problem with Rosetta? do you have an OOPS?
<kiko> so moving on once again
<kiko> -------------------------------------
<kiko>    6 ForbiddenAttribute: ('__call__', <sqlobject.main.SelectResults object at INSTANCE-ID>)
<kiko>     0% from search bots, 100% referred from local sites
<kiko>        4 https://translations.launchpad.net/projects/ddtp-packages/+rosetta-index
<kiko>         OOPS-326A859, OOPS-326C867, OOPS-326C868, OOPS-326C869
<Ubugtu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/326A859
<Ubugtu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/326C867
<Ubugtu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/326C868
<Ubugtu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/326C869
<SteveA> kiko / flacoste: is that request on the LaunchpadProductionStatus page?
<kiko> carlos, can you please check this issue, find an existing bug, report one if not, and get a fix cherry-pick-requested?
<flacoste> SteveA: it is
<kiko> SteveA, YES
<SteveA> awesome
<kiko> SteveA, maybe ask us out of bound on this, you are on a late train :-P
<SteveA> I'll talk with stub + mail him
<kiko> jamesh, BjornT: confirm above?
<SteveA> kiko: I want to demonstrate the new procedure, which was discussed last meeting
<kiko> carlos, confirm above?
<kiko> SteveA, you can do that as a separate topic. this is the oops report. :)
* flacoste took much care in following the new cherrypick procedure :-)
<SteveA> thank you flacoste 
<carlos> kiko: sure
<kiko> the remaining oopses are trivial ones (1 oops each)
<carlos> +rosetta-index?
<carlos> what's that?
<kiko> carlos, I'm not sure what that is -- requires investigation
<kiko> moving on.
<kiko> -------------------------------------
<carlos> ok
<BjornT> kiko: i suggest jamesh to fix it, since he wrote the code
<kiko> in terms of timeouts, +translations has dropped from our second-topmost oopser to an occasional oopser
<kiko> thanks to stub for producing the DB work that led to this
<jamesh> kiko: I think I know what is causing it, and how to reproduce.  I'll look at fixing it tomorrow.
<SteveA> eturn len(list(self.context.products())) > 0
<SteveA> aha
<kiko> jamesh, thank you very much
<SteveA> it looks like a method converted to a property
<kiko> right
<SteveA> or a property being incorrectly treated as a method.  with no pagetest!
<kiko> +translate continues timing out. I will do work on this but not in the next 15 days.
<jamesh> kiko: I think it affects URLs ending in &
<spiv> Worse, that code has a comment saying:     # XXX: this code is broken -- see bug 47769
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 47769 in rosetta "The /rosetta/projects/ubuntu page is hopelessly busted" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/47769
<kiko> the other pages that do time out do so in a much smaller proportion
<SteveA> also, I don't understand why we're doing a len(list(...)) there.  but I'll save that until later.
<SteveA> kiko: yay for +translate fixes
<kiko> SteveA, it's old code.
<SteveA> or rather +translations fixes
<kiko> just for some background
<kiko> +translate now oopses 230 times a day
<kiko> the second most frequent oopser, which is the distro page, oopsed 9 times yesterday.
<kiko> so if we fix +translate (finally) we will have a much more manageable performance challenge
<kiko> one thing that I am asking myself is whether it is worth putting work into optimizing +translate before implementing the rosetta DB refactorings stub and carlos and danilos the tall one discussed at the allhands
<SteveA> any more oops report?
<kiko> that should be discussed further
<kiko> one sec
<danilos> kiko: it depends on our timeframe for db optimizations, imo
<kiko> SteveA, and others:
<SteveA> danilos: perhaps schedule an irc meeting specifically on this issue
<kiko> for some perspective, we served 535471 hits yesterday
<kiko> of those, exactly 300 oopsed
<danilos> SteveA: ok, makes sense, and we'd probably like to have you there as well
<kiko> that means we have an oops ration of 0.05%
<kiko> ratio, sorry
<danilos> wow kiko, that's pretty good success rate!
<mpt> 99.943% successful hits
<kiko> which I think is pretty enviable.
<mpt> but successful page loads would be more interesting
<mpt> because non-oopsing icons aren't difficult
<kiko> we served 366770 pages
<kiko> which means 0.08% oops rate
<kiko> again, fabulous, so congratulations to our great team
<kiko> -------- end of impromptu oops report --------
<SteveA> thank you kiko
<danilos> (no high-fiving, pumping up, or hugging allowed in celebrations ;))
<kiko> you can hug your.. err.. keyboard
<SteveA> that's three nines, I think.  next, let's go for four nines :-)
* carlos looks for his best friend ever!
* mpt hugs carlos
<SteveA> carlos: that'll be mpt with the bugs report
<carlos> ;-)
<SteveA>  * Bug report report (mpt)
<mpt> There are 14 known Critical bugs in Launchpad recorded as being without released fixes. They are:
<mpt>  * Bug #1922 (Unhelpful "Invalid value" error when requesting fix for non-existent package/product), Critical, Confirmed, unassigned
<mpt> This bug has been around for months, and Launchpad has many less helpful instructions. Why is this one suddenly Critical?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 1922 in malone "Unhelpful "Invalid value" error when requesting fix for non-existent package/product" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/1922
<danilos> ok carlos, that was a good joke... and this is a bad joke... ok, a good joke... and a bad joke...
<mpt>  * Bug #2497 (/people/*/+translations times out for prolific translators), Critical, Fix Committed, kiko
<mpt> kiko, should there be a new bug report on further reducing the number of timeouts?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 2497 in rosetta "/people/*/+translations times out for prolific translators" [Critical,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/2497
<carlos> ;-)
<kiko> mpt, well, I'm not sure. what do you think?
<mpt>  * Bug #44214 (We need to add code to prevent POFiles being in the same path), Critical, In Progress, carlos
<mpt>  * Bug #46982 (Need to support KDE like plural forms), Critical, Confirmed, carlos
<mpt>  * Bug #68014 (Rosetta reverts translation fixes to old faulty values), Critical, In Progress, carlos
<mpt> carlos, just before the meeting you were saying 44214 should be a few days away. Tell us about the others. :-)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 44214 in rosetta "We need to add code to prevent POFiles being in the same path" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/44214
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 46982 in rosetta "Need to support KDE like plural forms" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46982
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 68014 in rosetta "Rosetta reverts translation fixes to old faulty values" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/68014
<mpt> kiko, I think it's nasty, but not Critical
<kiko> mpt, about the first bug, I think it's our most-duped bug
<kiko> mpt, I'll reduce it to high. I just wish it got done.
<mpt> Only four duplicates?
<carlos> mpt: bug #44214 has a failing test that prevented me to send the answer to the review email, but should be finished today and I hope I will get the final OK to merge
<mpt> interesting
<danilos> mpt: bug 46982 is still blocked on me
<jordi> blocked on what?
<jordi> err
<carlos> mpt: bug #68014 will be finished between today and tomorrow
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 68014 in rosetta "Rosetta reverts translation fixes to old faulty values" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/68014
* jordi back to his cave.
<kiko> BjornT, if I reduce bug 1922 to high, will you still do it? :-)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 1922 in malone "Unhelpful "Invalid value" error when requesting fix for non-existent package/product" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/1922
<carlos> jordi: Firefox support adds some infrastructure required for KDE plural forms
<jordi> oh I see
<BjornT> kiko: sure :) it should be quite easy to fix
<kiko> BjornT, thanks, I'd appreciate that. 
<SteveA> maybe mpt is having network issues.
<jordi> re: fixing translation reverting, woot!
<danilos> and I sucked at finishing that up this week so far, though made some good progress yesterday
<SteveA> so, when the current discussion is done, we'll move on, and come back to this if mpt is able to return
<SteveA>  * Production and staging (Stuart)
<SteveA> I have notes from stu
<danilos> carlos: have we at least confirmed the cause for 68014 to be the import by users?
<SteveA> All remaining production systems running breezy where upgraded to dapper
<SteveA> yesterday except arctowski. Whoever maintains stuff on that box should
<SteveA> coordinate with the admins to get it upgraded too.
<SteveA> New launchpad was rolled out at the same time, and all post rollout data
<SteveA> migration has been completed.
<kiko> danilos, very pertinent question, my own as well
<SteveA> There where too glitches with the rollout:
<SteveA> - I switched some cronjobs off I normally wouldn't during the rollout, but
<SteveA> neglected to switch them back on. This caused bugmail to not be sent out
<SteveA> until it was noticed and fixed the next day.
<SteveA> - A redirect was not setup from features.launchpad.net to
<SteveA> blueprints.launchpad.net, breaking old links.
<carlos> danilos: at least, I think there are no reports about this happening again since we disabled the upload form
<SteveA> Everything I'm aware of has been resolved. If something is still broken, I
<SteveA> am not aware of it.
<SteveA> The staging update procedure has been tweaked so there is now much less
<SteveA> downtime (just a few minutes plus however long it takes to apply the
<SteveA> outstanding database patches).
<SteveA> beta.launchpad.net is operational. Code updates are currently being handled
<SteveA> manually by SteveA (the automated code update was running, but disabled as
<SteveA> SteveA wanted to be able to manually update to arbitrary branches rather
<SteveA> than just the rocketfuel/lauchpad/ui-one-zero branch.
<SteveA> edge.launchpad.net is ready to go at short notice, but we are deferring that as (IIRC) Steve wants people to start doing most work on the 1.0 UI branch.
<SteveA> 
<carlos> so I think it's a good sign that we are handling the right problem
<SteveA>  that completes stu's production and staging report
<kiko> very very nice
<danilos> SteveA: so, should we start merging our stuff with 1.0 UI branch, if I got this correctly?
<danilos> carlos: ok, lets hope that's fine
<SteveA> danilos: I need to do some planning with stuart first.
<mpt> So, I hit the wrong button
<mpt> Sorry about that
<SteveA> mpt: anything else on your bug report report?
<mpt> Do we have time for more?
<mpt>  * Bug #30602 (Timeout errors in +translate), Critical, In Progress, kiko, who discussed this a couple of minutes ago
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 30602 in rosetta "Timeout errors in +translate" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30602
<mpt>  * Bug #48948 (dapper indices files still being regenerated but shouldn't be), Critical, Confirmed, malcc
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 48948 in soyuz "dapper indices files still being regenerated but shouldn't be" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/48948
<mpt> malcc, any progress?
<SteveA> mpt: maybe a couple more.
<mpt>  * Bug #56618 (Milestone restrictions are too restrictive for Ubuntu), Critical, Fix Committed, bradb
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 56618 in malone "Milestone restrictions are too restrictive for Ubuntu" [Critical,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/56618
<mpt>  * Bug #64017 (Setting a bug confidential after its creation creates a ghost bug), Critical, Fix Committed, bradb
<mpt>  * Bug #66562 (BugSubscriberPortletView.getSubscribersFromDupes seems to cause timeouts), Critical, Fix Committed, bradb
<mpt> BjornT, I guess all of those have been rolled out?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 64017 in launchpad "Setting a bug confidential after its creation creates a ghost bug" [Critical,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/64017
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 66562 in malone "BugSubscriberPortletView.getSubscribersFromDupes seems to cause timeouts" [Critical,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/66562
<mpt> ok, one more important one
<mpt>  * Bug #44238 (Bugs with Unknown status are not included in the bug listings), Critical, Confirmed, kiko
<mpt> kiko, why is this Critical?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 44238 in malone "Bugs with Unknown status are not included in the bug listings" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/44238
<kiko> because I abuse critical?
<mpt> ah
* kiko bumps down
<danilos> haha
<malcc> mpt: Nothing to report on that one; we've still worked around it for feisty and still have a way forward to fix it but haven't done it yet.
<jamesh> 66562 is probably released
<kiko> malcc, drop it to high with that justification please.
<mpt> So *that's* why ancient RFEs suddenly become Critical
<mpt> I don't mind it
<BjornT> mpt: they should have been rolled out, yes, i'll check to make sure.
<jamesh> same for 64017
<mpt> as long as it's being done more or less evenly
<kiko> mpt, I'm doing it based on people actually complaining
<mpt> ok, that's all, thanks SteveA 
<SteveA> ok
<kiko> on the rationale that that's the tip of the iceberg
<SteveA>  * Launchpad 1.0 status reports
<kiko> but I'll drop that one since it's assigned to me
<SteveA> no time for discussion here, just reporting please
<BjornT> Malone 1.0:
<BjornT> upstream-forwarding-workflow: final part has been merged to RF. it could still need a UI review, though.
<danilos> Rosetta 1.0 (not really) weekly report:
<danilos> - opening edgy for translation: DONE
<danilos> - firefox import/export: done, resolving conflicts/cleaning up (I broke regular PO import, now fixing that: some changes due to discussions on UDS, such as alt-msgid usage), putting up for review
<danilos> - oo import/export: tests, import implemented, export in progress
<danilos> - translation review: in review queue (with the same UI for reviewers
<danilos>   and translators, once that's merged, the review specific UI will be
<BjornT> series-and-distrorelease-mgmt: the distribution part is implemented (pending code review and testing). the product part was totally broken, but it has been fixed, and is also pending review.
<danilos>   implemented)
<danilos> - essential docs: no progress this week
<BjornT> guided-filebug-form: the UI has been modified as discussed, and it's now pending code review.
<BjornT> removing-duplicate-comments: No news, still implemented.
<danilos> - search: DB schema changes discussed at UDS
<BjornT> malone-essential-docs: No news, still not started.
<danilos> - checks not to upload wrong language PO file using "too many changes" check: not started
<danilos> - ui fixes: DONE
<BjornT> simple-bug-keywords: No news, still implemented.
<flacoste> Support^W Answer Tracker 1.0 Status Report
<flacoste> ------------------------------------------
<flacoste> SupportTrackerWorkflow: in production.
<flacoste> SupportTrackerViews: in production. Missing the 'Needs Attention' report.
<flacoste> SupportTrackerHelp: 75% completed. Missing Highlights, help on native language support and polish.
<flacoste> LocalizedSupportRequests: 1/3 reviewed, 2/3 in review.
<flacoste> SupportTrackerRenaming: pending
<carlos> kiko: I thought that Critical are the ones that makes you lose data...
<kiko> carlos, *shrug* 
<salgado> Random Things 1.0
<salgado> -------------------------------
<salgado> - DirectPersonRegistration: ready to land.
<salgado> - SearchingProjects: started
<salgado> - PillarGotchis: not started
<danilos> carlos: we've got a new definition: critical are those which you want cherry picked ;)
<carlos> ;-)
<mpt> danilos, no no no
<cprov> = Soyuz-1.0 Report =                                                            
<cprov> 
<cprov>  * PPA: ppa-build-support & ppa-poppy & ppa-publish (cprov, w-i-p)              
<cprov>  * Archive Rework: pending review (malcc)                                       
<cprov>  * NoMoreAptFtparchive: almost there, pending 3nd step review (cprov)           
<cprov>  * Code quality:                                                                
<mpt> We went through that last week :-)
<cprov>    * NascentUpload first refactoring (kiko, under development)
<SteveA> please focus on the current agenda item mpt, carlos
<SteveA> danilos and kiko
<SteveA> any more 1.0 reports?
<SteveA> thanks
<SteveA>  * Sysadmin requests
<kiko> SteveA, let us argue in peace!
<SteveA>  /join #launchpad-argument ;-)
<kiko> the world needs more peace
<kiko> I have no sysadmin requests pending
<SteveA> 3
<SteveA> 2
<SteveA> 1
<kiko> and kudos to the sysadmin team for dealing with the ones we had open
<SteveA> thanks
<kiko> SteveA, is stub on vacation?
<kiko> there is a critical issue affecting soyuz in production
<SteveA> and for handling the missing redirects from the last rollout quickly
<kiko> that needs him looking into
<SteveA> stub is unwell this evening
<kiko> or lifeless I guess
<SteveA> should be around tomorrow morning
<SteveA>  * Time-based releases (Steve)
<kiko> SteveA, I said /critical production issue/ btw
<kiko> SteveA, what's the process for getting help
<SteveA> I mailed the launchpad list with a draft spec on time-based releases for launchpad.
<SteveA> I had voice calls with mpool and lifeless today about it, and I'll incorporate their comments.
<SteveA> Please everyone read it and offer your comments and suggestions.
<danilos> ok, this is interesting one, SteveA: will we manage to have clear plans with 10-week schedule?
<SteveA> kiko: can it wait until after this meeting?
<danilos> or you don't want this discussed right now, I guess; ok, I'll email my comments
<SteveA> danilos: no time for discussion now.  thanks
<SteveA> skipping  * Keep, Bag, Change
<SteveA>  * Three sentences
<SteveA> please go ahead
<danilos> DONE: UDS--Rosetta DB spec, Translation Licensing spec; AllHands, got jetlagged
<danilos> TODO: ff for review, OOo export, search, bug fixing
<danilos> BLOCKED: no
<malcc> DONE: UDS, Allhands, resigned.
<malcc> TODO: PPA, handover.
<malcc> BLOCKED: No.
<BjornT> DONE: UDS, AllHands, finished off malone-guided-filebug and malone-release-management. code reviews.
<BjornT> TODO: test malone-release-management properly to ensure it's not broken. code reviews. malone documentation.
<BjornT> BLOCKED: no
<mpt> DONE: more 1.0 work
<mpt> TODO: Finish 1.0
<mpt> BLOCKED: not at the moment
<salgado> 2006-11-23
<salgado> DONE: UDS/AllHands, email catch-up, started the new 1.0 specs that were assigned to me before UDS.
<salgado> TODO: Work on the 1.0 specs and other random things
<salgado> BLOCKED: No
<flacoste> danilos: comments should be appended to the wiki page
<jamesh> DONE: allhands, some work on url-utils and bug-import
<jamesh> TODO: code review, text-to-html OOPS fix, bug-import work.
<jamesh> BLOCKED: no
<carlos> DONE: UDS/AllHands/Holidays
<flacoste> DONE: AllHands, finish tt-search-localized-requests, got tt-add-localized-requests accepted
<flacoste> TODO: Get *-localized-requests reviewed and land them, rename the support tracker, documentation
<flacoste> BLOCKED: reviews of 3 branches
<spiv> DONE: AllHands, mostly recovered from SFO flu, some smart server work (starting to build high-level operations!)
<cprov> DONE: NoMoreAptFtparchive improvements, ppa-binary-support, ppa-publish         
<spiv> TODO: reviews, smart server + supermirror integration
<cprov> TODO: ppa-publish, help texts                                    
<cprov> BLOCKED: no
<spiv> BLOCKED: no
<SteveA> DONE: allhands meeting, travel, management
<SteveA> TODO: arrange beta ui 1.0 server process
<SteveA> BLOCKED: no
<SteveA> 
<carlos> TODO: bug 68014, TranslationReview, mail
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 68014 in rosetta "Rosetta reverts translation fixes to old faulty values" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/68014
<carlos> BLOCKED: No
<kiko> DONE: flying back, catching up with email, perf reviews
<SteveA> spiv: please prepare your sentences in advance, and paste them together into the channel
<kiko> TODO: perf reviews, launchpad report, land various patches
<kiko> BLOCKED: no
<spiv> SteveA: ?
<spiv> SteveA: I did.
<SteveA> spiv: oh okay
<SteveA> they came out very delayed from each other
<spiv> Weird.  Not my fault, afaict :)
<SteveA> ok, thanks for preparing them
<mpt> It doesn't matter if your sentences are delayed, I am quite quick at sorting them now
<mpt> (well, doesn't matter for wiki notes purposes)
<SteveA> flacoste: you're blocked on code review
<SteveA> flacoste: do you have reviewers assigned yet?
<SteveA> flacoste: have you been blocked on this for long?
<spiv> 2/3 of his are assigned.
<jordi> aww
<mpt> flacoste's blockedness last meeting was what inspired the "how can we quicken the review queue" MeetingAction
<flacoste> SteveA: blocked may be too strong a word, but i have two branches that are in review for more than 2 weeks
<jordi> DONE: imports email, TODO: more imports, prepare Jono's sessions for next week
<jordi> BLOCKED: no
<flacoste> and one is unassigned for more than 10 days
<SteveA> flacoste: I think the all-hands meeting is a lot of the cause.
<SteveA> jamesh: as a proxy for lifeless, can you help get flacoste's reviews better assigned?
<jamesh> SteveA: okay.  I'll also look at clearing out my queue tomorrow (one of flacoste's branches is assigned to me)
<SteveA> thanks jamesh 
<SteveA> okay, that's the end of this week's meeting.
<SteveA> thanks for being here, and being involved in the meeting!
<kiko> good job SteveA 
<kiko> thanks jamesh 
* carlos -> lunch
<SteveA> so, kiko, there's an urgent soyuz issue?
<kiko> SteveA, yeah. we're getting dropped connections to the database
<kiko> and we don't know why
<danilos> and mpt, thanks for keeping track of it week in and out!
<kiko> cprov, is the issue still happening?
<SteveA> right, after the upgrade to dapper
<cprov> SteveA: yes, it's just happened again
<kiko> SteveA, no, since monday
<jamesh> kiko: I summarised that first OOPS in bug 72998
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 72998 in launchpad "fmt:text-to-html causes OOPSs for URLs ending in "&"" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72998
<SteveA> kiko: was it happening before the upgrade to dapper?
<kiko> jamesh, many thanks, will confirm.
<kiko> SteveA, yes, since monday.
<jamesh> kiko: please don't confirm by adding such a URL to that bug :)
<kiko> jamesh, heh
<kiko> SteveA, the issue here is that this at times causes the publisher to stop running.
<cprov> kiko: publisher connection died and cause the cron.daily to skip domination and a-f run for dapper-proposed suite
<kiko> SteveA, when it aborts, it can leave the DB and pool in an inconsistent state
<kiko> SteveA, we understand that the transactionality of this process needs to be fixed, but more urgently, when this does happen now, cprov needs to go in and do surgery
<SteveA> jamesh: does that mean it's a lack of re.escaping?
<kiko> and by surgery I mean open heart DB surgery
<kiko> SteveA, this is very distressing and causes cprov's work to be dropped on the floor
<kiko> SteveA, and it's been going on for 4  days now
<SteveA> kiko: have cprov and stub spoken, using their voices, about it?
<kiko> SteveA, they have not. cprov pinged the admins, but took a while to email the list, and stub has not replied.
<cprov> SteveA: not yet
<kiko> cprov, in the future, email the list /as soon as the issue occurs/
<kiko> cprov, do not wait for a day or three
<SteveA> ok.  if something is causing problems like this, arrange a voice call asap
<kiko> cprov, in terms of process, I mean.
<SteveA> a sense of urgency transfers much better by voice
<cprov> kiko: I did, stub is aware. But I should be quicker next time
<kiko> SteveA, specially at 2am
<SteveA> stub has replied on the list
<SteveA> he replied earlier today
<Ubugtu> New bug: #72998 in launchpad "fmt:text-to-html causes OOPSs for URLs ending in "&"" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72998
<kiko> ah I didn't see that
<SteveA> and explained something he would try to remedy the situation, and what he'll do to look into it further
<cprov> SteveA: which clearly didn't work as expected
<kiko> cprov, SteveA: this is the sort of thing that requires some coordinated looking at. can we book some time for a thailand-brazil call to go over this asap?
<SteveA> mpt: from stub:
<SteveA> DONE: travel, uds, allhands, travel, top level pillar name urls
<SteveA> TODO: fix all the tests broken by pillar name url changes, recover from this
<SteveA> virus
<SteveA> BLOCKED: ears and a fuzzy throat.
<SteveA> I'm up to date on activity reports.
<SteveA> ---
<cprov> kiko: anytime, I can also go to the office if you want
<kiko> cprov, I'm not sure I can be of much help :-(
<mpt> ok
<SteveA> kiko, cprov: I just had a call with stub
<SteveA> he'll pop onto irc in 4 or 5 hours.  however, there isn't anything he can actually do about the problems we're seeing, as they are outside his domain of influence.
<SteveA> he managed to reproduce the problem once
<SteveA> or at least a very similar situation, by running the publisher and using psql
<SteveA> the problem was solved when the publisher quit.  so it seems to be a load related issue, to do with the publisher causing a lot of load
<SteveA> so, load on the machine from publisher is stu's top guess as to the cause, secondary would be network problems
<SteveA> next, I want to find out, what sysadmins are involved so far
* SteveA waits for an answer from kiko and cprov 
<cprov> SteveA: I can't really see how high load would cause the socket to be dropped
<kiko> apologies, SteveA, was on the phone.
<kiko> SteveA, cprov: strawman idea: run the publisher niced to 5?
<cprov> SteveA: but I believe it is our best guess, since it what changed compared to the last week (apart of breezy-->dapper migration)
* kiko waits to be lambasted
<SteveA> maybe introduce delays into the publisher?
<kiko> it has ENOUGH delays as it is :-)
<kiko> jamesh, ping
<SteveA> we could do with some sysadmin help to diagnose the situation on drescher
<SteveA> cprov, kiko: what sysadmins are already involved?
<cprov> SteveA: Znarl looked on it yesterday
<kiko> SteveA, cprov knows, because I forgot
<Znarl> stevea : I'm looking at drescher right now.
<SteveA> hi Znarl 
<SteveA> let's move this over to the sysadmin channel
<cprov> publisher is running for 4 minutes
<jordi> carlos: ping?
<salgado> BjornT, have you seen my last reply to your review of my direct-person-creation branch?
<carlos> jordi: pong
<jordi> carlos: want to talk now? I have 5 mins before I leave
<kiko> mpt, jamesh or SteveA around?
<Ubugtu> New bug: #73006 in launchpad "Launchpad mirror content checker fail" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73006
<kiko> salgado, "checker fail"?
<salgado> kiko, already answered. the mirror's base url was wrong
<kiko> salgado, you rock
<Ubugtu> New bug: #73009 in launchpad-support-tracker "Insufficient contrast on class 'highlighted'" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73009
<BjornT> salgado: yeah, i saw your reply, but forgot to answer. i'll reply now.
<salgado> BjornT, great, thanks
<Ubugtu> New bug: #73013 in launchpad-support-tracker "Unicode character names appear in succesful linked bug message" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73013
<Ubugtu> New bug: #73020 in launchpad-support-tracker "Non-optional Message field marked as (Optional)" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73020
<mhb> hi launchpad devs and friends
<mhb> does anyone know if it's possible for a LoCo administrator to change the importance of bugs in language-pack-* ?
<soneca> helo!
<jordi> mhb: probably not
<soneca> I was registering in launchpad site at https://answers.launchpad.net/people/ricardo-conectiva/+claim, but i do not have anymore the email address that i put there. How i can fix the email?
<mhb> jordi: hmm, it was possible in the past (see: https://bugs.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/language-pack-cs/+bug/48900 has "Medium" importance)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 48900 in language-pack-cs "Poloka "vlastnosti softwaru" - GNOME Systm->Sprva" [Medium,Confirmed]  
<jordi> mhb: probably because it's assigned to the team
<carlos> mhb: as far as I know, some time ago, we restricted that field to the developers in charge of the package
<jordi> ah
<carlos> but that's not a recent change
<mhb> carlos: probably not, but since the actual loco team coordinators are going to fix those bugs, they should be able to change that
<mhb> carlos: it's probably a good thing in general, but the developers in charge of the package won't fix these bugs
<carlos> mhb: Perhaps the translation teams should be on charge of those bugs... (I guess the loco team coordinators are members of those teams already)
<carlos> not sure about the best setup for it
<mhb> carlos: yes
<carlos> BjornT_: could you help us with this? ^^^
<mhb> carlos: I'm one of the admins in that team, that's why I am concerned
<mhb> it's not actually that much of a problem, but it would be great if it worked
<carlos> I think it's more a setup problem than other thing
<carlos> by default the package is owned an Ubuntu team, and it's just a matter of taking this special case in consideration, although you still need to wait for a new language pack update done by an Ubuntu developer (usually Martin Pitt)
<mhb> carlos: so when the language-pack-* gets updated we will be able to change the importance? Do I understand it correctly?
<carlos> Well, I was not talking about change the packages, but the information we have in launchpad
<carlos> and I need BjornT_ here, he's a Malone developer and knows the details that control that permission
<salgado> BjornT_, around?
<mhb> ok, I'll wait
<kiko> what's up carlos, mhb?
<carlos> kiko: mhb asks whether would be possible to give access to the importance field of language-pack-* packages to the ubuntu translation teams
<carlos> kiko: they are the ones that will fix those bugs
<carlos> so they should be able to decide the importance
<BjornT_> carlos, mhb: hmm, it's a bit tricky. at the moment only the distribution bug contact may change the importance.
<BjornT_> carlos, mhb: so only members of ubuntu-bugs may change it.
<Ubugtu> New bug: #73027 in launchpad-support-tracker "Add 'Last owner reply' sort order" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73027
<BjornT_> salgado: i'm around now
<salgado> BjornT, do you have a minute to discuss the last issues with my direct-person-creation branch?
<mhb> BjornT: it's not a good solution since almost very few translators are members of that team
<BjornT> salgado: sure
<salgado> BjornT, so, you suggested writing a base validator, but the problem is that it would have to fetch an email address from the database, and if one was found, pass it to their callsites, 
<BjornT> mhb: yeah. having one team for a whole distribution is not optimal, there should be some more fine-grained permission control. unfortunately there's no plan for fixing it at the moment.
<mhb> sigh
<mhb> ok
<BjornT> sorry
<BjornT> mhb: but please file a bug about it
<flacoste> kiko-afk: support tracker highlights for the Launchpad Report sent your way
<mhb> BjornT: as a workaround - if I joined ubuntu-bugs would I be able to change the permissions?
<BjornT> mhb: yes, that would work. you have to have someone in ubuntu-qa to approve your membership, though.
<salgado> BjornT, I'd either have to turn the validator into something that returns an email address if it exists, None if it doesn't exists or fail if the email is not valid
<salgado> would that be okay?
<BjornT> salgado: why do you need to return the email address? it's the same that you pass to the validator, isn't it?
<salgado> BjornT, no, I pass a string to the validtor, but I need the EmailAddress object because I use the owner in the error message
<mhb> BjornT: hmm, I guess they won't allow it just for the sake of a workaround
<salgado> BjornT, the code I'm talking about is at interfaces/validation.py:355
<BjornT> mhb: they might allow it, it doesn't hurt to ask
<BjornT> salgado: well, you could use IPersonSet.getByEmail instead to construct the error message
<BjornT> salgado: although i guess you could have something like get_registered_email as well
<salgado> BjornT, so, it'd be something like https://devpad.canonical.com/~andrew/paste/fileG3WxwS.html ?
<BjornT> salgado: yeah, something like that. it's such a small and simple function, so it's not worth trying to factor out code.
<salgado> BjornT, right. the only concern I have is that all validate functions will either raise an exception or return False, but never both of them are used in the same function
<salgado> that is, they use either one or another to indicate an error, but not one to indicate one type of error and another to indicate other type of error.
<BjornT> i'm not sure that's something to care about. but if that's a concern, that maybe it's better to have something like get_registered_email() instead, which would either return an IEmailAddress or None, and raise an error if the email is malformed.
<salgado> I don't like any of these options, to be honest, but if you're not worried about using a return value and raising an exception to indicate different errors, then I'll do it, since I dislike the other even more
<salgado> BjornT, is that okay with you?
<BjornT> salgado: yeah, i'm ok with it. returning True or raising an error isn't that good either, actually. it should be either True or False, or 'no exception'/exception.
<salgado> agreed
<salgado> but although we do return True or raise an exception in most of our validator functions, I don't think the callsites actually care about the return value
<BjornT> another option would be to have a validate_email() which would only check whether valid_email(email) is True. then you would simply if IEmailAddressSet.getByEmail() is None/'not None'
<salgado> we have that
<salgado> but then I'd duplicate the raise LaunchpadValidationError("%s isn't a valid email address.") in both functions
<salgado> I thought about that, but I have something that blocks my fingers when I think about code duplication, so I couldn't even suggest that here
<BjornT> salgado: i was thinking that validate_email() should raise that error, and then you would call validate_email() from within the different validators.
<salgado> ah, no
<salgado> now I see what you mean
<salgado> yeah, that's better. I'll do that
<BjornT> cool, i like that better as well
<salgado> BjornT, so, is it okay to land that branch with this change and the template renaming?
<BjornT> salgado: sure, that's ok
* carlos -> out
<Ubugtu> New bug: #73042 in malone "Rather too hard to convert old Bugzilla bug number to LP URL" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73042
<SteveA> kiko-afk: ping
<BenC> hey lp'ers
<SteveA> hoi BenC, whats up?
<BenC> I'm interested in the nifty beta lp stuff that I saw at AllHands :)
<SteveA> we still don't have it running against production data
<SteveA> I expect to announce it, and make it available to people next week, once we have that aspect of it smoothed out
<BenC> I'm writing a new bit of software for one of the specs I have, and I'd love to make the bzr plunge with it using the new code
<SteveA> you can use bzr independently of the new UI
<BenC> I guess I can start with that and move to the lp project when you let it loose
<SteveA> all the same features are present in launchpad in production now
<SteveA> all the new ui gets you is the new ui
<BenC> I didn't see a straight forward way of doing a sourceforge like project on lp
<BenC> I guess it's the new UI that makes it more obvious and consistent...I'll get things on there now
<SteveA> ddaa is back from vac next week, so definitely talk with him about it too.
<SteveA> you can host your bzr branches on launchpad right now
<LarstiQ> hmm?
<BenC> what's a standard branch name for "HEAD" in bzr?
<SteveA> in launchpad, we have an informal standard of "devel"
<SteveA> other projects use "devo" which sounds very australian server dude to me
<BenC> ok
<SteveA> "mainline" is not a bad choice either imo
<SteveA> BenC: have you read the weblog articles linked from the bzr-vcs site on using bzr with launchpad?
<BenC> I started reading it
* LarstiQ uses dev mostly
<LarstiQ> BenC: trunk is also used
<BenC> here's a stupid question, how do I create a new product?
<BenC> nm, found it
<BenC> 1 revision(s) pushed.
<BenC> w00t
<fdoving> where do i post feature requests to launchpad (support part)? 
<SteveA> fdoving: a good place to start is to discuss it on the launchpad-users mailing list
<fdoving> SteveA: ok. it's just about the colors for Answered/Solved in the recent change. both green is not user friendly imho.
<SteveA> so, you can file a bug or discuss on launchpad-users
<SteveA> up to you
<fdoving> ok. thanks, i'll file a bug. :)
<SteveA> https://bugs.launchpad.net/products/launchpad-support-tracker
#launchpad 2006-11-24
<Ubugtu> New bug: #73060 in launchpad-support-tracker "Usability, Colors: Answered and Solved are both green." [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73060
<SteveA> LarstiQ: still around?
<SteveA> hi mpt 
<SteveA> mpt: I've mailed stub with a list of what we need to do to get beta.lp.net running against production.
<SteveA> did you merge from mainline recently?  if not, please don't.  I'm going to merge up to the last revision rolled out,
<SteveA> so that we can start running beta without an additional mainline rollout
<SteveA> I've asked lifeless to turn off the auto-merge to ui-one-zero from mainline
<SteveA> we'll turn it back on later, with an edge-style merge, to ensure we don't get database-related code
<LarstiQ> SteveA: yes
<SteveA> I'm having a housewarming on the evening of saturday 2 dec, in amsterdam.  Consider youself invited.
<radix> can I come?
<LarstiQ> SteveA: cool! what's the address? And do you know what the best way to reach it by public transport is yet? :)
<SteveA> radix: sure.
<radix> Thanks for inviting me, but I don't think I'll be able to make it.
<SteveA> morning stub
<SteveA> radix: I'm disappointed.
<SteveA> I'd reserved a place for you and *everything*
<somerville32> Can I come?
<somerville32> ...
* somerville32 feels rejectd.
<SteveA> somerville32: have we met?  you need to have met me before being invited to my parties
<somerville32> Ok. <g>
* somerville32 introduces himself.
<somerville32> My names Cody. :)
<somerville32> _o/
<SteveA> commander cody?
<somerville32> Commander Cody, Doctor Cody, Loner Cody... it all fits. : )
<SteveA> cool.  you live anywhere near amsterdam?
<somerville32> Not at all :)
<somerville32> I live in Canada.
<SteveA> that's near!
<SteveA> it's in the same hemisphere.  can't get much nearer than that.
* somerville32 tries to think of another excuse.
<stub> Morning
<somerville32> Hi Stuby :] 
<stub> SteveA: Still jetlagged, eh?
<lifeless> did we just change some part of the url mapping yesterday ?
<lifeless> 404 error count just tripled overnight
<SteveA> stub: just a tad
<SteveA> I went back east to the netherlands.  My bodyclock just kept going west
<SteveA> I think it's in tibet now
<SteveA> we'll be happily reunited sometime next week
<SteveA> stub: thanks for the email about beta.lp.net.  I asked lifeless to turn off the automated merges.  I'll do them manually for a couple of weeks before we turn on something automated.
<SteveA> the rest looks fine.  elmo said we could have a new box for it, but maybe it would be as easy to use gandwana
<lifeless> SteveA: is that in email ?
<SteveA> is what in email?
<lifeless> I asked lifeless to turn off the automated merges
<SteveA> yes
<SteveA> I emailed you
<lifeless> thanks
<lifeless> SteveA: done
<SteveA> thanks
* SteveA -> sleep
<poolie> hello hackers
<poolie> it would be nice if old releases faded from the product page
<lifeless> file a spec or bug ?
<mpt> Goooooooooooooood afternoon Launchpadders!
<LarstiQ> good night mpt :)
<ajmitch> evening mpt 
<Ubugtu> New bug: #73079 in launchpad "Launchpad: Membership status change on team  messages should list who performed the change" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73079
<Ubugtu> New bug: #73080 in malone "Can't search for public/private/security/non-security bug reports" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73080
<Ubugtu> New bug: #73083 in malone "E-mail notification does not include any setting of milestones" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73083
<Ubugtu> New bug: #73093 in launchpad "Oldest of many series should not be on product page" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73093
<Ubugtu> New bug: #73094 in launchpad "Product page should order series by importance, releases in order" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73094
<SteveA> morning
<carlos> morning
<glatzor> morning carlos.
<carlos> glatzor: hi
<glatzor> carlos: I feel sorry to only contact you in the case of problems :)
<glatzor> But the the German GNOM upstream translators complained about Rosetta recently
<carlos> about?
<glatzor> They changed all ellipses to the unicode character.
<glatzor> But you can still find the old three points in edgy. So there seem to be some import errors.
<glatzor> could this also be related to the po upload issue?
<carlos> glatzor: well, it depends on when did they change it
<carlos> if it's post release, it's "correct"
<glatzor> post release of edgy?
<glatzor> no. it was done some months ago.
<carlos> hmm
<carlos> could I get a reference to a template with the issue?
<glatzor> in epiphany-browser there should be "Lesezeichen hinzufgen " but it is "Lesezeichen hinzufgen..."
<carlos> ok
<carlos> let me check
<mpt> hi SteveA 
<SteveA> morning mpt and carlos 
<carlos> SteveA: morning
<mpt> SteveA, were you able to fix the brilliant server?
<glatzor> carlos: it seems that gtk+ missed all changes. 
<SteveA> mpt: I have access to it now.
<SteveA> mpt: I need to do various update and conflict resolution things, then I can get latest code on there
<SteveA> mpt: what branch are you working on?
<carlos> glatzor: the .po file has that change
<carlos> glatzor: next language pack generation should include it
<glatzor> carlos: could there be some other issues, too? the ... issue was a visible one.
<carlos> I didn't fix it
<SteveA> stub: hypothetically, if the "edge" pqm rules that reject database changes allow a database change to slip through, would the breakage be confined to the edge server?  I want to check that a database update script won't be accidentally applied to production.  I'm expecting not, as these aren't ever run automatically on production.
<carlos> I mean that Rosetta already had the change you told me
<carlos> I guess we got it late
<stub> SteveA: The breakage would be confined to the edge server.
<carlos> so any other missing change should also be deployed
<carlos> glatzor: wait.. it makes no sense
<glatzor> carlos: but some apps of the gnome 2.16.2 release include the changes
<carlos> glatzor: last change in that file should be already in final Edgy....
<carlos> glatzor: Rosetta has the right data, so seems to be an issue with language packs
<carlos> glatzor: I will investigate it
<glatzor> carlos: e.g. evolution doesn't seem to have this issue
<glatzor> thanks carlos.
<carlos> glatzor: thanks for warn me about it
<glatzor> carlos: i have to leave for work. so long!
<carlos> glatzor: cheers!
<mpt> SteveA, 2006-08-ui
<SteveA> mpt: ok, I'm putting that on brilliant now
<mpt> What should I merge into it? Your ui branch?
<SteveA> mpt: did you get my comments about not merging from RF devel head?
<mpt> yes
<mpt> That's why I'm asking
<mpt> or maybe I didn't read them thoroughly
<SteveA> ok.  I'm keeping my ui branch merged with the correct revision of rocketfuel
<SteveA> so, you can merge from my ui branch safely
<SteveA> there have been no conflicts lately, although there are some tests that need fixing to be more specific on mainline
<SteveA> I'll be doing that today, as that's a precondition for getting beta automated
<mpt> ok
<SteveA> mpt: your latest code, and code up to the correct revision in RF, is on brilliant now
<mpt> great, thanks
<mpt> Did you look at the other problem at all?
<SteveA> I have many problems.
<mpt> The one where Usman couldn't access the site
<SteveA> well...
<SteveA> that one would be caused by brilliant's move to a new office
<SteveA> and unplugging the server in the process, I think
<SteveA> we'll have to see about that when they move teh server to their new offices next week
<mpt> ok
<SteveA> so, the move is scheduled for monday
<mpt> And a final question for this evening
<SteveA> when elmo is back at work
<mpt> Did you intend the Launchpad build number to appear in Launchpad's footer on production?
<SteveA> yes, I did
<mpt> well, either way, it's not working :-)
<SteveA> please be more specific
<mpt> It says "build unknown"
<SteveA> that would be something for stub to look into
<SteveA> please file a bug
<stub> It is already fixed in HEAD
<mpt> okie dokie
<SteveA> stub: what had gone wrong?
<stub> The code that generated the version .py file was only being executed from 'make run', and we use 'make start' on production to run as a daemon.
<SteveA> I see
<stub> I suspect that the current display will give us ambiguous results. It reports just the revision number. That revision number is incremented on every cherry pick. So it it fairly meaningless without checking the actual branch, and if you are checking the actual branch then you can get the information from that source instead - doesn't need to be displayed on every web page.
<SteveA> kiko wanted this number for some QA function, so we should ask kiko what it's used for.
<stub> If it is just for kiko, it might be best to render it as an HTML comment instead of visible on every page.
<stub> Appending the branch nickname or date (both of which bzr version-info gives us) would be more correct if we have a real use case.
<SteveA> python test.py -f canonical.launchpad.ftests.test_system_documentation
<SteveA> when I do that, I get an error:
<SteveA> canonical.testing.layers.LayerInvariantError: Component architecture should not be available
<SteveA> how do I fix this?
<stub> Its an open bug
<SteveA> and...
<SteveA> a bug in zope or in launchpad?
<stub> there isn't a fix yet. A bug in our test layers, or maybe Zope3's test runner (the bit I added)
<SteveA> any workaround?
<stub> You can work around it by being more explicit in selecting what tests to run in most cases I think
<SteveA> I'm being very explicit
<stub> You are selecting over a dozen tests using almost every layer we have
<stub> --test=canonical_url.txt would be explicit
<stub> Also, --layer= would workaround the bug
<stub> Just run once for each Layer being used.
<stub> (which assumes you know what they are...)
<SteveA> can't I just say "screw this invariant" ?
<stub> You can try removing it and seeing what happens. I suspect your tests will still fail though, just more mysteriously
<stub> I don't know if I have tried that particular invariant though
<SteveA> where does fixing this appear in your list of things to do?
<SteveA> do any of our infrastructure team have knowledge to fix this?
<stub> Its my highest priority bug. I want to finish pillar name urls first, and land the two branches of mine in the review queue first if that doesn't cause great hardship.
<SteveA> sounds good
<stub> Anyone can look into wtf is going on - the layer stuff is well documented. I'm most familiar with the code though since I wrote most of our end and the Z3 end.
<stub> So the bug is almost certainly my fault ;)
<SteveA> I'm pretty clueless about the details of layers.  I *think* I know what they are for.
<Keybuk> I so read that as "lawyers"
<stub> There is some nice documentation and doctests
<stub> lib/zope/testing/testrunner-layers-api.txtlib/zope/testing/testrunner-layers-api.txt
<stub> Plenty of other doctests in there too, but I don't think it is particularly good documentation in the most part
<stub> (which is why I wrote that file)
<cprov> morning
<SteveA> hi cprov !
<cprov> hi SteveA !
<cprov> stub: hi, can you check another RT for me ?  https://rt.admin.canonical.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=24173, this one is related to a Zope Mail system error, non-critical, though
<Ubugtu> New bug: #73116 in soyuz "Source package pages don't describe what the package is for" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73116
<stub> SteveA: We did decide on /+code and not /code didn't we?
<SteveA> for what exactly?
<SteveA> for the root, really code.lp.net, but at /+code as an implementation detail
<SteveA> I don't think we want products called "code" though
<SteveA> that would be like having a breakfast cereal called "food"
<stub> I've already added code to the name blacklist. Just I managed to use both /code and /+code on this branch (which the tests are now telling me about) and I was wondering which was correct.
<SteveA> go for +code
<SteveA> people should never see it in practice though
<stub> It is visible if you are using xmlrpc
* stub wonders htf his changes broke gina tests
<salgado> mpt, around?
<Ubugtu> New bug: #73123 in malone "The generic "Report a bug in a package" page should go away" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73123
<kiko> that's a dupe. 
<kiko> BjornT, was that you?
<SteveA> see, I want an irc bot
<SteveA> where you can say "ircbot: that's a dupe"
<SteveA> and it'll do the right thing
<salgado> without you even telling it what's the bug it's a dupe of?
<BjornT> kiko: yeah. i couldn't find a bug for it, so i reported a new one. was there already one reported?
<mpt> salgado, I really should be asleep, but ... sure :-)
<mpt> What's up?
<salgado> mpt, I left two easy questions for you on PillarGotchis; have you seem them?
<salgado> (I think I even emailed you about them)
<kiko> BjornT, hmmm. IIRC bradb had filed one!
<mpt> Ah, I'm not subscribed to that spec
<mpt> salgado, so the answer to the second question probably would be "mugshot" for people, and "icon" for everything else
<mpt> (including teams)
<kiko> mpt, mugshot?!
<mpt> salgado, and the answer to the first question is bug 2422
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 2422 in launchpad "A (non-team) person can still set an emblem" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/2422
<mpt> and bug 6491
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 6491 in launchpad "No direct way of editing hackergotchi of a team" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/6491
<mpt> kiko, this is assuming that the term "hackergotchi" isn't well-known outside Gnome
<mpt> I might be wrong about that
<salgado> mpt, ah, cool. thanks for that. I'll upload the spec to say that we'll use mugshot in the UI and wait for somebody to complain before we consider changing it
<mpt> ok
<mpt> Time for me to stop reporting bugs and go to sleep
<mpt> salgado, so data-migration-wise: person.hackergotchi -> person.mugshot, team.emblem -> team.icon, person.emblem -> /dev/null, team.hackergotchi -> /dev/null
<mpt> Does that make sense?
<mpt> (actually maybe they should all be called "icon" under the hood, so main-template.pt can use "context/icon")
<salgado> I think we want to keep team.emblem
<salgado> or at least we need a smaller version of the team's icon
<mpt> It won't be used anywhere, that I can think of
<salgado> it's not used on a person's page, when that person is a member of the team?
<kiko> mugshot means nothing to non-native english speakers IMO
<salgado> today it is
<mpt> Today it is
<salgado> but it won't be anymore?
<kiko> why not snapshot? photo? image? 
<mpt> salgado, oh, yes, it will be
<mpt> https://launchpad.canonical.com/OneZeroPersonPage
<mpt> in place of the orange orbs, I guess
<mpt> or maybe that's supposed to be a scaled-down version of the full icon
* mpt notes that that page refers explicitly to "mugshots"
<SteveA> salgado / mpt: data point, dick from sxip found the term "hackergotchi" foreign
<SteveA> I had to spell it out, as he hadn't heard of tamagotchis
<Spads> it doesn't help that "tamagotchi" is already a combination word in japanese
<Spads> it's the word "egg" and "friend" smooshed together
<kiko> I hadn't heard of hackergotchis either
<SteveA> Spads: which part exactly is "egg"
<Spads> SteveA: tamago = egg, tomodachi = friend
<SteveA> I see.  So hackerachi would be a more morphologically correct composite
<Spads>  + 
<Spads> SteveA: if you wanted to just keep the 'friend' part and ditch the egg-nature
<kiko> or hackerdachi
<Spads> yeah
<Spads> probably best to leave the japanese/english hybrid neologisms to someone fluent in both languages, though
<Spads> heh, this dictionary has an interesting secondary definition for tamago:    (n) (1) egg(s); spawn; roe; (n) (2) (an expert) in the making; (P); EP
<Spads> must be a hatching metaphor
<SteveA> that doesn't appear in my uft-8 challenged combination of screen, terminals and irssi
<Keybuk> why isn't the blueprints milestone list for a product filtered to only that product's milestones?
<SteveA> kiko: 
<SteveA> carlos: ping
<carlos> SteveA: pong
<SteveA> hi carlos
<SteveA> where's danilo?
<carlos> hmm, I don't know. I didn't talk with him today
<carlos> yesterday, he was still a bit jet lagged
<carlos> not sure whether it's the cause he's not online
<SteveA> he's having lunch, will be around in under 1 hr
<SteveA> so, we should all talk (you, danilo, kiko, me) when danilo is back
<carlos> ok
<carlos> I just had lunch so I'm available at any time
<SteveA> ok, great
<salgado> so, our production/staging librarian answers https requests. can we get our test librarian to do the same?
<carlos> SteveA: btw, what will we talk about?
<carlos> Rosetta DB changes?
<SteveA> carlos: work in progress, blockers, etc.
<carlos> ok
<SteveA> carlos: kiko and I are going out to get lunch.  back in a short while.
<carlos> ok
<danilos> kiko-fud, SteveA: ping
<carlos> danilos: they left to have lunch
<SteveA> I'm back now
<carlos> SteveA: that was fast
<SteveA> let's talk on #launchpad-meeting
<danilos> carlos, SteveA: ok, so only kiko missing :)
<kiko-fud> I am here
<kiko-fud> what's this about missing?
<danilos> kiko: I was just expressing some emotions ;)
<flacoste> salgado: ping
<salgado> flacoste, pong
<flacoste> salgado: you have bug 53292 assigned, do you still plan to work on that?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 53292 in launchpad-support-tracker "Create/follow support requests through a mailing list" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/53292
<salgado> flacoste, is it assigned to me?
<flacoste> (i just remove the assignment, but thought about asking you in case there is something i don't know)
<flacoste> it was
<flacoste> btw, the user who requested that feature finally won't be using Launchpad for support handling (hplip product), management decided otherwise
<salgado> ah, now I remember
<salgado> exactly
<salgado> I'm not sure that is actually something we should be working on, since the requester doesn't plan to use it anymore
<salgado> what do you think?
<flacoste> i agree, though i wouldn't reject the bug per se since the idea is interesting
<flacoste> i'll change the priority to Wishlist though
<salgado> yeah, that's what I was going to suggest
<carlos> this is weird....
<carlos> danilos: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+source/epiphany-browser/+pots/epiphany/de/+upload
<carlos> danilos: are you able to reach that upload form?
<salgado> kiko, what do you think of the question I left at https://launchpad.canonical.com/PillarGotchis ?
<kiko> salgado, resizing an image to become an emblem is not very easy
<kiko> it requires a lot of manual tweaking
<salgado> really? why?
<kiko> because 150px is very different to 20
<kiko> look at our favicon for launchpad
<kiko> or even better our favicon for async
<kiko> and the async logo
<kiko> the favicon is not the logo reduced
<kiko> was that the question, btw? :-)
<kiko> carlos, I am.
<kiko> but I'm an admin
<kiko> carlos, do you want me to check as a random luser?
<carlos> kiko: yeah, seems like I should change sample data...
<kiko> ah
<carlos> kiko: I did a mistake with tests and only Launchpad admins are able to reach it
<carlos> so neither danilo or I are able to do uploads
<kiko> ha ha
<carlos> because I'm and admin in sample data but not on production
<carlos> grr
<kiko> well I can upload if you like
<kiko> just give me the file.
<kiko> my +translations will get fubared though
<carlos> fubared?
<kiko> I would rather that form allowed admins to upload on other people's behalf.
<kiko> well will include stuff in german
<kiko> even though I can only say "it is a love story" in german
<carlos> kiko: don't worry, I have a 'workaround' (only available to Rosetta admins)
<carlos> so I can handle it
<kiko> ah, ok.
<kiko> carlos, what about the "import on other people's behalf" idea?
<carlos> well, you can do it already
<carlos> if the .po header has a last translator field with a different person name than the one uploading it
<carlos> the one in .po header will get the credit
<kiko> I see.
<kiko> that's a bit controversial
<carlos> why?
<carlos> it's metadata, and translators should update that metadata
<LarstiQ> akin to the debian/ubuntu maintainer situation I suppose
<carlos> we do it when the files are exported
<kiko> well
<kiko> the file may have been translated by many people
<carlos> LarstiQ: not really, the credit is only for the changes over what we have in our database
<carlos> not for the whole content
<kiko> you only know who the last person updating it
<LarstiQ> carlos: supposedly, the same would be true for debian changelogs
<LarstiQ> carlos: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/feisty/+source/kommando/+changelog however is different from http://librarian.launchpad.net/3280119/kommando_0.4.1-2ubuntu1.diff.gz
<cprov> LarstiQ: +changelog is busted :(
<kiko> +changelog /is/ busted
<kiko> yes
<LarstiQ> cprov: what are it's prospects?
<kiko> LarstiQ, fixing it is non-trivial
<kiko> and there's a long stack of stuff that is on u
<kiko> s
* LarstiQ is thinking of bug 55795 
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 55795 in soyuz "+changelog includes misleading information related to package versions and authors" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/55795
<LarstiQ> kiko: is there anything I could do to facilitate it's solvedness?
<cprov> LarstiQ: afaics, changes field in changesfiles is not correct, it's collapses changes versions
<kiko> LarstiQ, hmmm
<kiko> carlos, so I think it's worth considering setting translator to NULL and setting approver to the uploader
<kiko> that still leaves the question of what to attribute to the person who uploads the file as suggestions.
<kiko> but miscrediting suggestions that way is hardly a big deal.
<LarstiQ> cprov: iirc, it gets the entries from .dsc files on upload
<cprov> LarstiQ: no, it doesn't, the information presented in +changelog comes from the changesfile, which is the wrong approach, indeed.
<LarstiQ> what is the next step?
<cprov> LarstiQ: we should build the source based on orig + diff and then get the correspondent (last) changelog entry
<LarstiQ> what does that do with in between changelog entries of versions that only got uploaded to debian?
<cprov> LarstiQ: noting the debian version as they were ubuntu versions in the changesfile is, IMO, the mistake 
<LarstiQ> cprov: right, it looks like those entries of kommando were done by Sarah Hobbs, whilst in actuality it was Sune Vuorela (who pointed me at it ftr)
<cprov> LarstiQ: and the changes was signed by Stephan Hermann, wtf ?
<cprov> LarstiQ: well, it's a mess, this feature cause a lot of trouble and misunderstandings with developers, despite the fact it generates broken links. 
* LarstiQ nods
<cprov> LarstiQ: but the worst thing is that I don't know what is the right thing to do.
<cprov> LarstiQ: the source release authoring belongs to Sarah, and we can't easily find the authors of the inner (debian) changes
* LarstiQ noticed a kommando_0.4.1-2ubuntu1_source.changes
<LarstiQ> not something I'm familiar with
<cprov> LarstiQ: a simplistic approach would be blaming Sarah by writing the confusing changesfile :(
<LarstiQ> cprov: what does that thing add over debian/changelog?
<cprov> LarstiQ: you can found the changesfile in https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+queue?queue_state=3&queue_text=kommando
<LarstiQ> I mean, I'm familiar with generating a changes file during package build, but not with it ending up in the diff
<cprov> LarstiQ: well, it doesn't add anything to the changelog, we simply assume the Changes: would contain the last changelog entry
<LarstiQ> it's clear to me the ubuntu packaging/upload process is different enough from Debian that I'll need to study it before digging deeper
<cprov> LarstiQ: uhm, I'm not sure if the changesfile should be part of the diff or not, probably not.
<cprov> LarstiQ: yeah, it's generated outside the source tree, it should no be part of the diff.
<LarstiQ> ok, at least my understanding was correct there then :0
<cprov> LarstiQ: you are absolutely right in all the aspects, the +changelog is horrible and leads to mistakes.
<cprov> LarstiQ: but, as I said, I'm not sure if the last entry of the debian/changelog would describe this package appropriately.
<LarstiQ> why not include the entire debian/changelog?
<cprov> LarstiQ: well, changelog info is incremental we don't want to end up with o lot of duplicated text in DB
<cprov> LarstiQ: but a feasible solution would be to store the whole chunk between 0.3.0-1ubuntu1 & 0.4.1-2ubuntu1 in that case
<LarstiQ> good point. How do you deal with diverging changelogs?
<cprov> LarstiQ: what do you mean by "diverging" ? the ubuntu developer deal with them creating proper description associated with the version suffix (-ubuntu[IDX] )
<cprov> s\developer\developers
<LarstiQ> cprov: the changelog of a package in a given upload is not a strict superset of what is already there
<LarstiQ> entries can be rolled back, or some be different
<LarstiQ> or even the entry for a given version can change between uploads
<cprov> LarstiQ: well, it would be a big mess, I'm not sure if the debian policy allows that.
<cprov> LarstiQ: the versions must be unique
<LarstiQ> it happens for sure
<LarstiQ> perhaps not that often, since it _is_ frowned upon
<cprov> LarstiQ: uhm, them we are more wrong than I though, because the we assume version integrity for sure
<LarstiQ> but different lines of development for experimental and sid do happen more often
<cprov> LarstiQ: awful, can you add a comment about this in the mentioned bug ? then we can ask for distro team help ...
<cprov> LarstiQ: if it's true, maybe we should just stick the changelog file in librarian and let people deal with it ("eliminating problem" phase, you know ...)
* LarstiQ nods
* LarstiQ mails himself to get more solid evidence for cprov
<cprov> LarstiQ: good, thank you very much for discussing it with us, looking forward to see your comments/evidences in the bug.
<kiko> salgado, ping?
<salgado> kiko, pong
<kiko> salgado, so, I was reading through
<kiko> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DynamicMirrorDecisions
<kiko> salgado, is RSS only offered for cd mirrors or for both types?
<salgado> kiko, both, as of last roll out
<kiko> salgado, we should probably update that spec. Can you give me the two sample URLs for Ubuntu so I can?
<salgado> apt is not going to use the RSSs
<salgado> kiko, bug 72110 and bug 72237
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 72110 in launchpad "Need to provide a way for anonymous users to get a list of archive mirrors on their country (or continent, if there's none in their country)" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72110
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 72237 in launchpad "Store failure reports sent by apt about mirrors" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72237
<kiko> salgado, can you read the first two paragraphs of DMD?
<salgado> I talked with elmo at AllHands and we agreed that this is what is going to be implemented for the first iteration of DMD
<salgado> they're not going to implement the full spec at once
<cprov> kiko: do you have time for phone call ?
<kiko> salgado, sure, I'm just intending to leave the spec accurate
<kiko> cprov, yes, in a bit
<cprov> kiko: sure
<salgado> kiko, the rss URLs are at the bottom of the page, btw
<kiko> salgado, is the second paragraph wrong or not?
<salgado> I don't see anything wrong with the first two paragraphs
<kiko> well it says
<kiko> Currently Launchpad only offers mirror information as a web page.
<kiko> which I don't think is true as of the last rollout
<salgado> well, that's not the second paragraph that I have here
<salgado> In order to keep an Ubuntu system up to date...
<salgado> this is the second paragraph
<kiko> salgado, of the Design section.
<kiko> sorry, I didn't say that though I thought I did
<salgado> I guess we could leave just the part that says that launchpad will have to present the data in a standard/parseable way
<salgado> it already provides RSS, but it's very likely that we're not going to use it
<salgado> maybe link to bug 72110 from there...
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 72110 in launchpad "Need to provide a way for anonymous users to get a list of archive mirrors on their country (or continent, if there's none in their country)" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72110
<kiko> ok.
<flacoste> kiko, salgado: any idea why I would get   File "/home/francis/Launchpad/trivial/lib/canonical/testing/layers.py", line 170, in setUp
<flacoste>     LibrarianTestSetup().setUp()
<flacoste>   File "/home/francis/Launchpad/trivial/lib/canonical/launchpad/daemons/tachandler.py", line 61, in setUp
<flacoste>     raise TacException('Unable to start %s' % (self.tacfile,))
<flacoste> canonical.launchpad.daemons.tachandler.TacException: Unable to start /home/francis/Launchpad/trivial/daemons/librarian.tac
<flacoste> when running ./test.py ?
<kiko> flacoste, is a librarian already running?
<flacoste> ps ax|grep python doesn't show anything
<flacoste> could it be a lock file left lying around?
<flacoste> lingering socket?
<salgado> maybe. have you checked /var/tmp/fatsam.test/ ?
<kiko> right. that's the other potential issue.
<carlos> flacoste: Edgy?
<flacoste> carlos: no way!
<flacoste> ls /var/tmp/fatsam.test gives:
<flacoste> incoming  librarian.log  librarian.pid
<flacoste> but there is no process with the PID in librarian.pid
<salgado> remove the .pid?
<flacoste> should I rm -fr that directory
<salgado> I'd expect it to remove the .pid file if there was no process with that pid running, no?
<flacoste> I rm -fr the thing and ran the test again with the same results
<salgado> just the .pid should be enough
<flacoste> the log gives:
<flacoste> 2006/11/25 01:44 IST [-]  twisted.internet.error.CannotListenError: Couldn't listen on any:58000: (98, 'Address already in use').
<salgado> do you have the .pid back there?
<flacoste> lingering socket it seems
<salgado> yeah
<salgado> gotta go
<flacoste> bummer, another application had opened a socket on that port :-(
<flacoste> not even a listening socket for that matter
<kiko> that's odd.
<flacoste> well, 58000 is a number that can be used for that
<flacoste> [francis@Huxley trivial] $ cat /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_local_port_range
<flacoste> 32768   61000
<flacoste> so 28000 would be a better default port
<flacoste> btw, what fatsam means?
<flacoste> as in /var/tmp/fatsam.test ?
<kiko> now THAT is a good question
<carlos> Sam aka 'the fat', the one that eats all our files!
<carlos> ;-)
<LarstiQ> flotsam/
<kiko> that too
<flacoste> carlos: is this for real?
<carlos> flacoste: that's my guess
<flacoste> wow
* flacoste is flabbergasted
<carlos> I guess spiv would be the one answering that
<flacoste> The Librarian aka Fat Sam
<somerville32> Heu
<somerville32> Who should I talk to about changing the translation contact for a language?
<kiko> somerville32, hmm. can you be more specific?
<somerville32> Sure :)
<somerville32> Andrew Hunter is the owner of Ubuntu English (Canada) Translation Team
<somerville32> But Andrew Hunter is the translator for English (CA) instead of Ubuntu English (Canada) Translation Team
<kiko> what's English (CA) versus English (Canada)? Is that california?
<kiko> who would the right owner be?
<somerville32> English (Canada)
<somerville32> CA is short for Canada
<somerville32> Sorry
<carlos> somerville32: then, I'm lost...
<kiko> indeed.
<somerville32> English (Canada)  	Andrew Hunter   	Change   	2006-07-19
<kiko> either I or you have had too much mescaline today.
<somerville32> Andrew Hunter is the English (Canada) Translator.
<kiko> so far so good.
<carlos> unless you want to be the coordinator/owner of that team or you are and he was just faster than you creating it...
<somerville32> And I'd like to change that to the  Ubuntu English (Canada) Translation Team
<somerville32> No no
<somerville32> He created that team
<carlos> aah
<somerville32> So I assume it is just an oversight
<carlos> sorry, I missed the 'Ubuntu' word
<carlos> ;-)
<kiko> carlos, do you know what needs to be done?
* kiko doesn't!
<carlos> I think so, yes
<carlos> kiko: atm, Andrew is a single translator for en_CA
<carlos> kiko: somerville32 is asking us to change that to allow more than one member
<kiko> oh
<kiko> gotcha
<kiko> carlos, wanna do it?
<carlos> kiko: yes, Mark asked us to create teams only when there is more than one person interested on that language
<carlos> that's why we didn't do it in the first place
<carlos> somerville32: there is no ubuntu-l10n-en-ca team
<somerville32> canadian-english
<carlos> somerville32: to be able to do what you request, you need to talk with Andrew and create that team first
<kiko> or standardize the name
<carlos> oh, wrong name, yes, please, rename it to ubuntu-l10n-en-ca
<somerville32> I can't, haha. Andrew is the owner of that team.
<carlos> ok
<carlos> I'm doing the change now
<carlos> but
<carlos> either Andrew or kiko (is a launchpad admin) should do the rename
<kiko> I can do it
<carlos> kiko: thanks
<carlos> somerville32: the team is now set
<kiko> somerville32, how much will you pay me to fix it?
<somerville32> haha
<kiko> hmm, I guess you won't fall for that one
<somerville32> :] 
<kiko> done, then
<carlos> anyone knows what's English (US Fargo)  ?
<kiko> lol
<carlos> https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-l10n-en-us-fargo
<somerville32> :] 
<somerville32> So, is anyone working on that karma graph thingie I inspired? haha
<kiko> remind me all about it
<somerville32> Someone filed a bug report.
<somerville32> Let me go get it
<flacoste> about the US Fargo translation team: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-au/2006-August/000515.html
<somerville32> Bug #71020
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 71020 in launchpad "Tell people where they are on the karma scale" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/71020
<somerville32> What language(s) is Launchpad coded in?
<lifeless> python
<somerville32> Oh really?
<somerville32> Cool.
<somerville32> Can anyone help with lp development or do you need to be "special"? haha :] 
<kiko> well..
<kiko> anyone that is willing to sign an NDA can help.
* carlos -> dinner
<lifeless> the source for lp is not released - its a proprietary code base, delivered as a service. Community folk that are genuinely interested in helping have been granted access under an NDA 
<somerville32> Would there be an expectations to do regular work?
<somerville32> *any
<kiko> well, there are some expectations that you put enough effort to do at least some valuable work
<carlos> somerville32: well, at least something, just having access to the code without contributing anything... is useless for both parts (Canonical and you)
<somerville32> Would I be expected to attend developer meetings?
<lifeless> no
<kiko> but if you did good work you might be invited!
<somerville32> lol
<lifeless> its an NDA, not an employment contract :). 
<somerville32> hehe
<somerville32> I don't think I'm really qualified. I mean, I have lots of experience with programming but I only taught myself Python earlier this month... I'd be scarred I'd screw something up or that I'd be a disappointment.
<somerville32> I just wouldn't want to waste anybody's time signing an NDA and then finding out that I wouldn't be much help anyhow.
<somerville32> :] 
<Mez> lp down ?
<Ubugtu> New bug: #73186 in malone "Duplicate bugs retain milestone" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73186
<spiv> carlos, flacoste: actually, Steve is responsible for the name "fatsam", although I'm responsible for not entirely excising the old name when we started calling it the librarian...
#launchpad 2006-11-25
<carlos> ;-)
<flacoste> and do you know what it stands for?
<kiko> it stands for pancakes and maple syrup!
<khermans_> i would like to report a launchpad issue
<somerville32> khermans_: Feel free to file a bug.
<khermans_> somerville32, i am right now :-)
<somerville32> :)
<khermans_> when you attach a file to a bug report, it uploads the file and then checks ot see if you added a description
<khermans_> this sucks if you just spent 10 minutes uploading a crash report to see that you had "no description" :-(
<khermans_> gotta send again...
<kiko> khermans_, hard to fix that without fixing html forms in general...
<khermans_> kiko, javascript can tell if the field is empty, right?
<khermans_> that runs client side
<kiko> yeah!
<khermans_> kiko, is that not a valid solution?
<kiko> yeah, it's a decent enough solution.
<kiko> file the bug
<khermans_> kiko, already did :-)
<kiko> heh
<kiko> okay, out for a bit
<Ubugtu> New bug: #73196 in launchpad "Including an attachment with no description to a bug report should fail before file upload is attempted" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73196
<kiko-zzz> time to catch those zs!
<kiko-zzz> night guys
<yankees26> question: How can I find the date for when a goal is supposed to be met? ( I set a goal for version 1.0 for some time in December, but I can't remember what date :P)
<mpt> yankees26, what kind of goal?
<mpt> Is this a milestone?
<mpt> or a product release?
<mpt> or something else?
<yankees26> mpt: i think it would be considered a Feature Specification attached to a Milestone Target
<mpt> yankees26, what's the URL of this feature specification?
<kiko-zzz> mpt, what's special about bug 73077 that's causing it to time out?
<yankees26> mpt: do you mean this: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/products/nirvana/+spec/1.0-release or the actual specification URL that that link asks for?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 73077 in xawtv "When running scantv I get a segmentation fault (core dumped) when ut gets to channel 77" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73077
<kiko-zzz> mpt, ping?
<mpt> kiko-zzz, I don't know, I don't have access to the database
<mpt> but my guess is
<kiko-zzz> mpt, can you load the bug? 
<mpt> that its description contains a core dump
<mpt> and text-to-html takes too long to convert this core dump to HTML
<mpt> That's what the traceback suggests, anyway
<mpt> and no I can't load the bug report
<kiko-zzz> okay.
<kiko-zzz> hey stub 
<mpt> yankees26, if you click on the "1.0 release" link you arrive at a page that says, among other things, "Date expected: 2007-01-01"
<mpt> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/products/nirvana/+milestone/1.0-release
<mpt> Have you seen that page before?
<yankees26> thanks mpt i cant believe i didnt see that on the left
<yankees26> :O, it even says it at the top of the browser
<yankees26> excuse me while i go feel dumb.....
<mpt> yankees26, that's ok, people usually don't see the stuff in the little boxes
<yankees26> heh
<mpt> Or I should say "often", not "usually"
<mpt> Same goes for <title> because of the way most Web browsers are designed
<yankees26> heh, well know I have an actual html file that has a more detailed spec (worked on it while i waited here :P)
<yankees26> http://fhatsoft.googlepages.com/1.0-spec.html
<yankees26> sadly its on a googlepages thing (would run my own server but god damn optimum online doesnt allow servers :( )
* mpt wonders if googlepages is the new geocities
<yankees26> well its free
<yankees26> 100 MB of space
<yankees26> upload space*
<yankees26> but doesn't have any real html editing
<yankees26> i probably could have used berlios or sf for nirvana though 
<yankees26> oh well
<kiko-zzz> yankees26, why is html editing a desireable thing?
<kiko-zzz> I mean, isn't it easier to just edit locally and push changes?
<yankees26> 'cause the "html" and templates googlepages offers isn't very good
<yankees26> IMO
<kiko-zzz> oh they offer templates?
<kiko-zzz> and you can't put your own templates/content?
<yankees26> another annoying thing is that you could use your own html files and upload them, but its impossible to make one of htem your homepage
<yankees26> kiko-zzz: no
<kiko-zzz> that is ridiculous
<yankees26> but you can upload your own html files
<yankees26> but you'd still have to have a googlepages one for your home page
<kiko-zzz> but not in the homepage?
<kiko-zzz> gah
<yankees26> i've even tried uploading an index.html and i still get googlepages homepage :p
<yankees26> so basically, my base of operations for nirvana is what launchpad gives me and http://randomthinktank.wordpress.com/nirvana-package-manager/
<yankees26> hm, berlios is looking promising to use as a website hoster and tarballs (of course i'll continue to use launchpad for malone and bazaar, etc.)
<kiko-zzz> yankees26, cool to hear. we should offer web hosting at some point, though we're bottlenecked for developer time right now
<kiko-zzz> yankees26, so what do you like about launchpad's malone and bazaar?
<yankees26> kiko-zzz: idk, i just like bzr a lot and malone looks better than the bug tracking provided by berlios and f
<yankees26> sf*
<yankees26> web-hosting would be a nice feature though :p, although I'd rather see less downtime between a bzr push and it actually being able to be pulled
<kiko-zzz> yankees26, so we're working to increase the frequency at which we mirror
<kiko-zzz> yankees26, how much is it nowadays?
<yankees26> idk, i've usually done bzr push's at night
<yankees26> and i dont check back till the next day
<yankees26> maybe tomorrow, i'll do a bzr push and set a cron job or something for bzr pull and see how long it takes :p
<kiko-zzz> I'd be interested in knowing
<yankees26> ok
<yankees26> i'll try getting that done tomorrow
<yankees26> im just waiting to hear from a guy i know who uses berlios and ask a few questions
<yankees26> then i'll have a nice berlios+launchpad combo going :D
<Ubugtu> New bug: #73204 in blueprint "Sorting a list of specifications doesn't work" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73204
<mpt> Reporting bugs about Launchpad is addictive :-/
<yankees26> orly? :p
<mpt> ya rly
<yankees26> oh, ok
<yankees26> NO!!!!, nirvana.berlios.de is taken!
<yankees26> bye all and thanks
<kiko-zzz> SteveA, ping!
<SteveA> kiko: mr kiko!
<kiko> that's him
<kiko> in the flesh
<SteveA> so... I can access that site
<kiko> and I can'
<kiko> t
<SteveA> it is indeed curious that you cannot
<kiko> I can ping it
<SteveA> but we have seen it before
<kiko> SteveA, ping
<mc__> what do you guys think about launchpad intergration with oter revison controll systems?
<mc__> wouldn't it be great to have for instance svn/darcs support?
<yankees26> cant "import" a svn or cvs branch?
<kiko> mc__, we do have some svn "support" in the form of code imports.
<kiko> mc__, there is a proposal for furthering svn support but there haven't been resources to throw at that lately
<mc__> kiko: i do not use  cvs/svn,personally i would enjoy darcs support
<kiko> mc__, there has never been a single request for darcs importing!
<mc__> kiko: till now :)
<kiko> heh
<kiko> it's unfortunate that imports are such complicated things
<mc__> but why no "really" support for other rcs'es,i mean,i dont want my darcs rep to be imported into bazaar
<kiko> it's hard to build a system that is all to everybody
<kiko> we need to focus on the tools we have found to work best, and bzr is definitely the best RCS platform, in our evaluation 
<kiko> supporting another RCS natively would be a gargantuan task, additionally
<kiko> so it's not an easy decision for a limited-resource enterprise
<yankees26> isnt there also the fact that bazaar is another canocial (spelt that wrong) project?
<kiko> yankees26, well, we didn't, originally
<kiko> have bazaar
<yankees26> ah
<mc__> yankees26: its sponsored by canonical
<kiko> the idea was to use an existing RCS
<kiko> but at the time the only "viable" distributed RCS was arch
<kiko> and after a year or so of work on arch we found it utterly unworkable
<kiko> and in shopping for alternatives found mpool and his prospect for a greater distributed RCS
<mc__> kiko: is launchpad oss atm?
<kiko> I believe from the bottom of my heart that bzr is the best platform available out there, but I am considering things from many perspectives, not just the binary/tool itself.
<mc__> kiko: have you ever tried darcs?
<kiko> mc__, not yet. that's a long story! we operate as openly as we can, and we do want to release as OSS, but we're Not There Yet
<kiko> yeah, back in the days
<kiko> maybe a year and a bit ago
<mc__> and you didnt like it?
<kiko> I did, actually
<mc__> whad advantages does bzr have to darcs? maybe ill try it again
<kiko> mc__, in a checklist sort of way I can't say because my experience with darcs is way more limited
<kiko> but bzr is really easy to use. mpool's main desire was to make something that felt right, but without all the policy dictating that arch and git seem to love doing
<kiko> bzr's also an awesome community to work with; they have people 24/7 on #bzr, and help is easy to find
<kiko> the tool is fast for our pretty large tree already, and performance has increased in leaps over the past months
<kiko> bzr do monthly releases, strictly, so it's easy to see the progress
<kiko> and ultimately, bzr has a clear roadmap, community involvement and commitment by its leadership to be in for the long haul
<mc__> but darcs does all you say as well,except for the performance thing,darcs is quite slow 
<kiko> mc__, which is a problem if we wanted to get  darcs used for the kernel or mozilla
<kiko> which is what we want bzr to be used for
<kiko> and which we are very close to now
<kiko> (after almost two years of hard work!)
<mc__> kiko: you are a developer of launchpad/bzr?
<kiko> mc__, of launchpad. I'm just a bzr user
<kiko> but I love it <wink>
<mc__> kiko: you guys do great work!
<kiko> wow, thanks for saying that
<yankees26> i'd say sub par ;P
<yankees26> (just joking)
<kiko> yankees26, at least we keep trying harder!
<yankees26> :P
<mc__> kiko: i've got one last question,when do you think will launchpad be oss?
<mc__> and what problems are keeping launchpad form beeing oss?
<kiko> I personally think we still have a lot to improve before I think Launchpad is actually enough for me to call "good"
<kiko> but it's a big system and there are lots of areas of goodness
<kiko> mc__, there are a few issues that block us there
<kiko> one is that we'd hate fragmentation to happen, because there is a lot of value in having a single launchpad
<kiko> and at this point I honestly think that there a risk of making the platform fail because of fragmentation
<kiko> there's also the issue that a lot of launchpad is still really pre-alpha 
<kiko> a lot of string and wire in parts
<kiko> and running it requires an array of servers and admins
<kiko> the setup documentation would require a lot of effort on our part
<kiko> it's not a simple project, and we didn't really design it to be easily downloaded and installed by end-users (and that shows ;)
<mc__> kiko: i think that would not keep new developers from joining
<kiko> yeah, people have said that before
<yankees26> launchpad uses plone right? (i cant remember)
<kiko> it uses zope3
<yankees26> ah
<kiko> it used to use some plone templates
<kiko> but no longer
<mc__> kiko: but i think you would need something like a plugin architecture
<kiko> the OSSness point is the one point we are thinking about all the time
<kiko> yeah
<kiko> mc__, it may be that a rich xmlrpc API may be enough for a start
<kiko> but we're Not There Yet (heard that before?)
<mc__> kiko: yes :)
<kiko> what day of the week is this anyway, and why am I still working?!
<mc__> kiko: its saturday
<kiko> in some countries people don't have to work on saturdays
<kiko> but in launchpaddia we only get 4 weekends a year
<kiko> and this is not one of them ;-)
<mc__> kiko: not only in launchpaddia,ist like that in whole developia ;)
<kiko> so I hear
<mc__> kiko: may i treat our talk as an interview and  publish some parts on a austrian blog?
<yankees26> heh
<kiko> mc__, sure
<kiko> I might even be able to keep my job once it's published <wink
<kiko> >
<mc__> ^^
<mc__> i'll go  bed now,have a nice day!
<kiko> thanks, rest well
<yankees26> kiko: time to start the bazaar push/pull test
<kiko> ai ai
<kiko> o/~ tv on the radio o/~
<yankees26> ...?
<kiko> it's a most interesting band. and so offtopic. :)
<yankees26> what band?
<kiko> tv on the radio
<kiko> TVOTR
<yankees26> oh
<yankees26> mercurial looks nice
<kiko> i would enjoy seeing them live; they are a bunch of weirdos
<yankees26> hehe
<kiko> mercurial is indeed nice
<kiko> not as weird as The Mars Volta, but, well, everything has its limits
<yankees26> im looking its Importing patches section of Quickstart guide, its very nice feature
<kiko> so
<kiko> bzr has the same feature
<kiko> what bzr doesn't have yet
<kiko> is as good documentation as hg
<yankees26> really? what's the command?
<kiko> mmmm
<yankees26> bzr mmmm? :p
<kiko> so bundle-revisions produces bundles
<yankees26> like a clean .tar.gz?
<kiko> mmmm
<yankees26> these mmmm's arent very specific....
<kiko> okay the feature may not be entirely compatible
<kiko> argh, somebody at the door. 
<yankees26> haha
<yankees26> ok to revisions have been pushed
<yankees26> now to setup the cron job on my mac
<yankees26> ok now to make the bash script that'll do that stuff
<yankees26> ok its setup
<yankees26> bzr pull | grep 2 && touch "../`date`"
<yankees26> that should work
<yankees26> :O
<yankees26> i just did a manual pull ('cause i was just testing something again) and it pulled the 2 revisions.....
<yankees26> :O
<yankees26> that was faster than usual
<kiko> hah!
<kiko> yankees26, bundles are basically portable changesets (with metadata)
<yankees26> ah
<yankees26> im gonna do another trial
<yankees26> and push another revision
<yankees26> and not do any manual pullings
<yankees26> ok the revision has been pushed
<yankees26> if cron does its job, it'll execute at the half hour of every hour
<yankees26> or every 30 minutes
<yankees26> i can't remember what the first column does exaclty :P
<kiko> cron has been known to do its job occasionally
<yankees26> hehe
<kiko> the first column is minutes
<yankees26> so it'll do it every 30 minutes
<kiko> well, depending on the cron
<yankees26> or every half hour?
<kiko> */30 ?
<yankees26> */30 does it every 30 minutes
<kiko> right.
* yankees26 goes to change the cron file
<yankees26> ok changed
<kiko> */30 * * * *^I^I/sbin/rmmod -a
<yankees26> next test will be 10:00 AM
<kiko> tries to remove modules every 30 minutes
<yankees26> hehe
<yankees26> not gonna do that (plus im doing the cron part from my mac)
<kiko> well, it only unloads unused modules
<yankees26> hm
<yankees26> /sbin/rmmod --help doesnt mention a -a
<yankees26> you ever used bzr register-branch? :P
<kiko> yeah, I have
<yankees26> kiko: whats the difference between bzr update and bzr pull?
<kiko> yankees26, I think for branches they are the same thing
<kiko> I think pull doesn't work for checkouts
<yankees26> ah
<kiko> I asked Martin the exact same thing a while back. we may see the commands consolidated a bit
<yankees26> ah
<yankees26> who is martin?
<kiko> martin pool
<yankees26> ok im giving up the testing, i just did a bzr branch on my linux machine and it was fully up to date, why is launchpad being fast today??
<kiko> yankees26, it ate dessert yesterday and has more calories to burn now I guess
<yankees26> ah
<yankees26> ok this is odd
<yankees26> i do bzr up and it says its up to date
<yankees26> bzr pull takes down another revision
<yankees26> obviously they dont do the same thing
<kiko> yankees26, so bzr up probably doesn't work for branches. it's been a while since I've developed directly on branches
<yankees26> ah
<careyo> hello
<careyo> are there rules that determine what products can be registered on launchpad?
<kiko> not really
<yankees26> just register and voila!
<yankees26> i saw one that didn't even describe what it was :P, the description was just (possibly not totally correct): "I'll fill this out when I have something to put." 
<careyo> interesting. 
<careyo> i am trying to understand the whole launchpad concept right now.
<careyo> So far my understanding is something like this "gather all projects/code/bugs/etc together into one spot for better collaboration"...
<kiko> careyo, that's a pretty good description!
<careyo> good, maybe I'm not as confused as I thought :)
<somerville32> :] 
<Ubugtu> New bug: #73253 in malone "Page to edit a bug's title/description looks awful" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73253
<yankees26> heh: using malone to report a bug about malone
<yankees26> that amuses me
<yankees26> hey kiko: berlios approved my project, now I can have an actual website (as opposed to using a blog/googlepages :P)
<kiko> that's a metabug
<kiko> and this googlepages template nonsense is, well, nonsense!
<yankees26> metabug?
<yankees26> and yes it is
<yankees26> oh, the bug. ignore the 
<yankees26> "metabug?"
<kiko> yeah
<kiko> I am into deep meaningless words
<yankees26> eh
<yankees26> but now ihave to wait about 6 hours before actually accessing it
#launchpad 2006-11-26
<careyo> what is HCT?
* mode/#launchpad [-s]  by ChanServ
<somerville32> Anyone around?
<Hobbsee> hey guys, can we get an account on launchpad shut down?
<Hobbsee> https://launchpad.net/people/spymac-sucks is messing with the bugtracker
<Hobbsee> thanks!
<Fujitsu> Poor bug #1...
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 1 in Ubuntu Dapper "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,Rejected]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<somerville32> "NOTABUG: Functionality works as intended."
<somerville32> haha
<somerville32> I wonder if this was done by an OpenSUSE member
* somerville32 ponders.
* Starting logfile irclogs/launchpad.log
(somerville32/#launchpad) I was just going to ask the same question
(somerville32/#launchpad) pirast volunteered
(somerville32/#launchpad) <g>
<somerville32> Are lp admins around? LP is being trolled.
<danilos> somerville32: what do you mean?
<somerville32> Bug #1 was vandalized
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 1 in Ubuntu Dapper "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<somerville32> <Hobbsee> hey guys, can we get an account on launchpad shut down?
<somerville32> <Hobbsee> https://launchpad.net/people/spymac-sucks is messing with the bugtracker
<somerville32> <Hobbsee> thanks!
<pirast> hi, where can I post suggestions to rosetta (which ml)?
<danilos> pirast: rosetta-users
<pirast> danilos, thanks.. :-)
<danilos> stu1: if you're around, can you help with disabling https://launchpad.net/people/spymac-sucks?
<Hobbsee> danilos: thanks for some action
<finek> hi
<finek> i get an email from You
<finek> and i don't know why
<finek> ?
<LarstiQ> could you be more specific?
<yankees26> much more
<finek> i don't know how
<yankees26> whats in it?
<finek> Thank you for registering at Launchpad. To complete your registration,
<finek> please follow the instructions here:
<LarstiQ> finek: I get all kinds of mail from the launchpad system since I have an account I actively use. What is in your mail?
<finek> i don't regiseter
<yankees26> then someone used your email address probably
<finek> is it spa,m?
<yankees26> or you have amnesia and dont remember registering
<finek> no
<finek> nothing like this
<LarstiQ> finek: possibly someone else registered your email, or it is the result from some conversion (from old ubuntu bugzilla, python sf.net tracker, etc)
<LarstiQ> finek: I doubt it's spam.
<yankees26> its probably what LarstiQ said
<yankees26> in the FAQ there is something about not registering an account but having one anyway
<finek> strange
<yankees26> https://launchpad.net/faq
<yankees26> third question
<finek> thx
<finek> what is launchpad-integration 
<LarstiQ> finek: iirc, an ubuntu package to make integration with launchpad easier
<LarstiQ> finek: ie, when an app on ubuntu crashes, file a bug report directly, or go to the translations, etc
<finek> ok
<finek> thx
<finek> bye
<LarstiQ> Next time I should ask if it is an ubuntu user
<yankees26> why?
<yankees26> LarstiQ: ^
<yankees26> o wait i see, never mind
<yankees26> and fyi: im not an ubuntu user :P
<LarstiQ> yankees26: exactly :)
* LarstiQ is mostly a Debianite himself
* yankees26 is an Archer and soon (if LFS and my package manager succeed) a Funnyhatite too
<ryanakca> does someone want to reset the topic? 
<ryanakca> last it was (from what I see) is: "Developer meeting: Thu 30 Nov, 1200UTC (wiki:MeetingAgenda) | launchpad-users@lists.canonical.com (wiki:MailingLists) | Channel logs: http://tinyurl.com/72w39"
<LarstiQ> yankees26: update makes sure the working tree is at the same version as the branch. If you are working in a checkout, the consequence is to make it up to date with the master branch.
<yankees26> whoa....
<LarstiQ> yankees26: whereas a pull gets revisions from the parent branch (and as a side effect updates the working tree, hmm)
<yankees26> completely forgot i asked that (yesterday i think)
* LarstiQ grins
<yankees26> thanks
<LarstiQ> so yes, I do read backlog on occassion ;)
<yankees26> heh
<yankees26> i currently work on the pull/push branch method as opposed to checkout
<yankees26> which is better if you are the only dev?
<LarstiQ> it's not necessarily along the axis of number of devs :)
<yankees26> ok
<yankees26> which is better from development point of view?
<LarstiQ> For some of my branches I'm the only dev on, I keep a checkout on my laptop/desktop, with the master on my server
<LarstiQ> but for things only going on on my laptop, I just branch
<yankees26> ah
<yankees26> my current setup is i do most of my work from my linux comp and push 
<LarstiQ> yankees26: if you want to make sure a 'public' branch has the same revisions as what you are working on, using a checkout is a good idea
<yankees26> to the launchpad server
<yankees26> LarstiQ: the user checksout or i use a checkout?
<LarstiQ> yankees26: that is what I used to do. But I've forgotten to push a couple of times, and wouldn't have the most up to date version when I was elsewhere
<LarstiQ> yankees26: the developer
<yankees26> LarstiQ: ok
<yankees26> i think i've switched to a checkout on the mac yesterday
<yankees26> now for linux
<LarstiQ> it all depends on your workflow
<yankees26> i do like that bzr commit also pushs it when you use a checkout
* LarstiQ nods
<LarstiQ> yankees26: if you are on a slow link however, the network connection for every commit can be a pain
<yankees26> im on broadband so i feel safe
<yankees26> for that
<LarstiQ> you could use commit --local if you weren't :)
<yankees26> (even though my god damn ISP doesn't allow servers)
* LarstiQ usually has that issue when away from home, flakey wifi networks and such
<yankees26> ah
<yankees26> and now i have a checkout :D
<yankees26> (on linux)
* YoussefAssad reads the topic
<YoussefAssad> oh, wait...
* ..[topic/#launchpad:LarstiQ] : Developer meeting: Thu 30 Nov, 1200UTC (wiki:MeetingAgenda) |  launchpad-users@lists.canonical.com (wiki:MailingLists) | Channel logs: http://tinyurl.com/72w39
<LarstiQ> and I'm off, ciao!
<yankees26> bye
<rawler> am I the only one with terrible response-times from launchpad.net right now? (in the several minutes magnitude)
<rawler> probably not since I ended up in a proxy error...
<mpt> Gooooooooooooooooooooood morning Launchpadders!
<Brushy> Hello
<Brushy> Is the server down or something, because I finish my registeration
<rawler> seems likely, yes.. :)
<Brushy> :/
<mpt> It's working for me
<rawler> it kicked back in for me as well now.. :)
<Brushy> yeah, seems so
<Brushy> seems to be down again :/
<rawler> yeppers.. :S
<rawler> entirely dead this time.. :S
* mdke kicks lp
<mpt> bother
<yankees26> its working for me?
<yankees26> (if you mean the website, and ignore that question mark)
<mdke> not for everyone, though
<mdke> ah, that's better
#launchpad 2007-11-19
<thumper> Ubulette: why do you think that lp needs to sync it?
<Ubulette> thumper, i don't know. so far so good. maybe there's no need
<thumper> Ubulette: I don't think it needs to know
<thumper> the public key yes
<thumper> but all the signed emails, no AFAIK
<mpt> heh
<mpt> https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-devel-discuss
<mpt> "Ubuntu Core Developers does not use Launchpad."
 * mpt wonders how we could fix that
<mpt> Rename the profile, I guess
<ajmitch> yet another automatically created person?
<mpt> yes
<mpt> (Asked as <https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/18173>)
 * ajmitch remebers the same thing happening with motu
 * Hobbsee waves
<sargento> Hello!
<Hobbsee> greetings!
<sargento> Is anybody there?
<Hobbsee> no
<stdin> i'm not there, i'm here
<Hobbsee> sargento: only the autoanswer script is here.
<sargento> Hi, Hobbsee, how are you?
 * Hobbsee is an autoanswer script
 * Hobbsee is slowly eating up more memory
<Hobbsee> :)
 * thumper waves
 * ajmitch waves to thumper 
<thumper> sargento: do you have a question or just curious?
<sargento> both of them
 * thumper waves at ajmitch
<sargento> I'd never used IRC before
<sargento> I'm not native English speaker by the way, so be patient with me, please.
<sargento> I'm also new at Linux, I have requested a translation file for amarok but I don't know what to do with de PO file. Â¿Can someone give me a tip of how to translate an application?
<thumper> sargento: unfortunately I don't know too much about the translations stuff
<sargento> Thanks any way
<sargento> What is this IRC used for?
<thumper> sargento: ok, just checked
<thumper> but amarok isn't using launchpad for translations
<thumper> I believe that it is all done through the kde.org website
<thumper> sargento: IRC is used for immediate converstations between (sometimes) like minded people
<sargento> thumper: Where are you from?
<thumper> sargento: New Zealand
<sargento> thumper: Greetings form MÃ©xico!
 * thumper waves at all Mexicans
<thumper> sargento: IRC also allows aids in distributed development where the people are not co-located
<sargento> thumper: Thanks a lot, I gotta go, It's been a thrill chating with you. Bye.
<thumper> sargento: bye for now
 * thumper likes giving thrills...
<ubotu> New bug: #163694 in malone "Fix Committed/Released distinction is inconsistent and unproductive" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163694
<Hobbsee> mpt: updated bug, sorry for being unclear.
<ubotu> New bug: #163696 in malone "Launchpad doesn't help in listing bugs fixed in a release" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163696
<Hobbsee> ...uh, yes it does
<Hobbsee> oh, i cant read.
<ajmitch> need glasses?
<Hobbsee> got em
<Hobbsee> actualyl, the title could go both ways.
<mdomsch> to enable a team PPA, must you be a team Administrator?
<Hobbsee> i think so, yes.
<mdomsch> cool - I'll bug my guy then
<Hobbsee> mdomsch: be aware, unless you get an email address set, it will send all build failures, etc, to all members of the team.
<mdomsch> excellent :-)
<Hobbsee> depends how many people you have on your team :P
<mdomsch> hmm, that's probably recursive (there are other teams included in mine)
<mdomsch> dell-team has ~15 people, plus the Ubuntu Kernel team
<mdomsch> the latter probably won't want to see those emails
<Hobbsee> no idea if it's recursive, tbh.
<mdomsch> but the other named people, sure
<Hobbsee> havent tried that :)
<Hobbsee> ahhhh, i see.
 * Hobbsee wonders if lp will let her mangle teams, when she's only the maintainer of one of them, and not on the other :P
 * Hobbsee wonders if that constitutes an abuse of power.
<mdomsch> Hobbsee, don't do anything on my behalf pls
<Hobbsee> mdomsch: no, not you :)
<mdomsch> :-)
<Hobbsee> mdomsch: this is about a team ppa that has ~60 members, and everyone got spammed with all build failures until i blackholed the address.
<Hobbsee> however, i've blackholed it to my personal email, so....
<Hobbsee> it would be good to change it, so that it goes to the list instead.
<Hobbsee> which it cant, as another team has that address.  *sigh*.
<mdomsch> oh lovely - if it is recursive, I'll spam 21 people plus canonical-kernel-team and canonical-xorg
<Hobbsee> you might want to wait for cprov-away and such, then.
 * Hobbsee is no LP admin
<mdomsch> no rush, was just something I was looking into
<Hobbsee> mdomsch: you cant sign ppa packages yet, btw
<mdomsch> Hobbsee, makes sense
<mdomsch> I was just wanting to get some pacakges out for people to play with
<mdomsch> which I can do w/o a PPA too
<Hobbsee> mdomsch: you can use your personal ppa if you wihs, too.
<Hobbsee> er, but you might need to be in the beta team.
<mdomsch> but sabdfl was here last week and reminded me of PPAs and was curious if we were using them
<mdomsch> which got me started
<Hobbsee> neat :)
<Hobbsee> so get going
<mdomsch> I requested beta team access
<Hobbsee> oh, mrevell's on leave.  i doubt it's gotten processed yet, then.
<mdomsch> yep - and that's fine.  I'm still learning
<Hobbsee> dear launchpad, please don't switch the menu options around.  Thanks, Hobbsee.
<mpt> Hobbsee, which menu options?
 * mpt gets a headache reading https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/18067
<Hobbsee> mpt: *sigh*
<Hobbsee> mpt: show all team members, and show team participation
<Hobbsee> show all team members used to be the second hyperlink.
<Hobbsee> https://edge.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-team for eg
<ajmitch> that's an interesting question there, mpt 
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: oh, maybe that's why I keep hitting the wrong one
<Hobbsee> mpt: that's quite...impressive.
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: yes, i think so.  i'm not sure how long ago they changed it, but every single time i hit the wrong one.
 * ajmitch does as well
<ajmitch> I figured it was just me being slow & confused
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: i think it doesnt help that they sound like the same sort of thing - it sounds like a rename, instead of a new option moved around.
<mpt> I'm sorry, I haven't being paying any attention to the order of menu items
<Hobbsee> mpt: clearly you dont use that section of LP enough :)
<ajmitch> 'show team participation' does sound somewhat like show who participates in this team
<mpt> (it's just been one of those dull throbbing issues that I need to get around to investigating one day)
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: ah, so that's why i'm getting confused.
<mpt> We have a plan to fix this
<Hobbsee> how soon?  before we go mad?  :)
<mpt> Hmm, perhaps not
<mpt> Might be too late for that already ;-)
 * mpt flees
<Hobbsee> haha
<LaserJock> hehe
 * Hobbsee attacks mpt with the Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! â¢
<LaserJock> certainly too late for Hobbsee 
<mpt> Yeah, Exhibit A
<Hobbsee> haha :)
<Hobbsee> mpt: who's doing the beta team approvals in mrevell's absense?  did you know?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: just give her a padded cell & some ponies
<ajmitch> speaking of which....
<mpt> Hobbsee, no-one, afaik
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: poniez plz.
<Hobbsee> mpt: when does he get back?
<mpt> Today, I think
<Hobbsee> woot :)
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: I think we scared LaserJock off
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: we'll find him at the next UDS.
<ajmitch> you may
<LaserJock> sorry
<Hobbsee> greetings, lamont 
<Hobbsee> lamont: how goes the fishing?
 * ajmitch is seeing a distinct lack of golden ponies announced
<LaserJock> busy listening to the sound of my silent laptop
<LaserJock> ajmitch: yeah, I actually haven't been on the computer much for my birthday
<Hobbsee> mpt: btw, https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/18173
<lamont> evening
<Hobbsee> (seeing as you filed it)
<lamont> Hobbsee: I went looking for your build failure, found only successes...
<ajmitch> LaserJock: well, happy birthday
<Hobbsee> lamont: for kdebase-runtime?
<lamont> I think that was it.  not being told _which_ ppa to look in may have complicated things...
<Hobbsee> lamont: if that's the case, then why does it still fail?
<lamont> I eventually checked the kubuntu-members ppa, since y our's didn't have it
<Hobbsee> lamont: this is all kubuntu-members
<Hobbsee> this has nothing to do with my ppa of miscellanea
<Hobbsee> lamont: i thought it checked it's own ppa
<sabdfl> mdomsch: it would be recursive, if i understand what you are referring to, yes
<lamont> kdebase-runtime 4:3.95.0a-1ubuntu1~ppa1 is built, no?
<sabdfl> if you have team X as a member of Team A, and A has a PPA, and there is a notification for that PPA, then everyone in X will get it
<mdomsch> sabdfl, ok, thanks.
<sabdfl> unless you set a notification address for X
<sabdfl> the recursive thing is rather neat, though :-)
<sabdfl> was fun to meet up and see your labs, thank muchly btw
<mdomsch> I can see the need for both recursive and non-recursive
<lamont> Hobbsee: maybe if you uploaded kdebase-workspace to _hardy_ instead of gutsy, it'd find the kdebase-runtime that is in _hardy_
<Hobbsee> lamont: first three of https://edge.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/+archive/+builds?build_text=&build_state=all ?
<mdomsch> indeed, it was a productive day, thanks for coming down
<Hobbsee> lamont: oh, there's a thought.
<Hobbsee> that's the *one* thing i forgot to check :)
<lamont> Hobbsee: that'd be the issue for all 3.
<Hobbsee> sabdfl!
<lamont> and kde4network...
<lamont> morning sabdfl 
<mdomsch> I'm pretty sure we'll want a way to limit who gets PPA notifications, but not limit who gets other notifications
<mdomsch> maybe by setting up another team just for the PPA
<Hobbsee> lamont: uh, and why https://edge.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/+archive/+build/428961 ?
<Hobbsee> lamont: that would appear to target gutsy.
<lamont> that's kdepimlibs
<Hobbsee> lamont: sorry, https://edge.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/+archive/+builds?build_text=kdebase-runtime&build_state=all
<Hobbsee> lamont: that's kdebase-runtime in gutsy, not hardy at all.
<Hobbsee> which is dying over kdepimlibs, which also appears to be in hardy.
<Hobbsee> *unless* the thing is saying gutsy, when it's actually hardy
<lamont> ah.
<lamont> kdebase-runtime in gutsy is dep-wait kdepimlibs5-derv
<Hobbsee> lamont: yes, but why.
<Hobbsee> lamont: that's in the ppa.
<Hobbsee> for gutsy, unless it's naming is on crack.
<lamont> hrm.  dear launchpad, when a package becomes new enough to clear a depwait in ppa, please clear the depwait. kthxbye
<Hobbsee> i gave it back - it just doesnt seem to be finding the package.
<lamont> runtime doesn't?
 * lamont just gave-back kdebase-runtime and rescored it.  I'll stick around long enough to see it at least building
<Hobbsee> no, but i'll try it again on !lpia if you like
<Hobbsee> oh, yeah, you may as well do that, as you can rescore too
<lamont> rescored
<lamont> I see you gave them back though.
<lamont> and it looks like queue-builder is running, so we may get to wait a bit
<Hobbsee> yeah.  was already there, and figured it was less clicks for you
<lamont> 'heh. thanks
 * Hobbsee wants the mighty give back powers :)
<lamont> you have give-back powers, no?
<Hobbsee> i have givebacks for ppa
<Hobbsee> but not globally
<Hobbsee> and i dont have rescore powers
<lamont> ah, yes.  that makes sense
<Hobbsee> need a member of the tech board (hint, sabdfl) around long enough to give them out :)
<lamont> hrm... tech board does own the team
<Hobbsee> seems odd, for something not only for ubuntu.
<lamont> someone has to own it.
<Hobbsee> i guess it's that or the LP admins.
<lamont> yeah
<lamont> and no one wants to be owned by a rubber duck
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> change it to a llama or something.  problem solved.
<lamont> they'd revolt
 * Hobbsee . o O { here's a llama, there's a llama, and another little llama, fuzzy llama funny llama, llama llama duck }
<lamont> all three building, it'll be interesting to see who finishes first
<Hobbsee> i'll bet a lolly pop on i386
<Hobbsee> i win!
<Hobbsee> lamont: i was right then.  depwait.
<Hobbsee> lamont: in fact, it's not even piciking up the latest kdelibs
<lamont> http://ppa.launchpad.net/kubuntu-members/ubuntu/dists/gutsy/main/binary-i386/Packages.gz
<lamont> double-U  Tee  Eff
<lamont> I imagine that if your PPA had the package in the packages file, that apt would use it...
<lamont> not a buildd-fixable bug.
<Hobbsee> lamont: ahhh!
<Hobbsee> no, i think i've found it
<Hobbsee> lamont: this is likely due to component up mangling, that never got fully done.
<lamont> ??
<Hobbsee> cprov-away: when did you do the component mangling?  what was the date?
<lamont> heh.  iz universe?
<Hobbsee> lamont: with the old system, yes
<Hobbsee> lamont: until they blew away components.
<Hobbsee> http://ppa.launchpad.net/kubuntu-members/ubuntu/dists/gutsy/universe/binary-i386/Packages
<lamont> yeah - saw it
<Hobbsee> although, i guess the non-component system would only have taken effect with the new rollout.
<lamont> anyway, have a nice day. :-0)
<Hobbsee> lamont: right, i'll bug cprov.
<Hobbsee> lamont: thanks for your help
<lamont> yeah - it's beyond my powers
<sabdfl> lamont, Hobbsee, i think they will enable full component support for PPAs as an option
<sabdfl> for sovvistikated users
<Hobbsee> sabdfl: i bet that'll confuse the hell out of people, even mroe than this lot does now.
<sabdfl> well, no
<lamont> sabdfl: with the ability for the ppa owner to move things around and manage the overrides file, one would hope.
<sabdfl> the problem is that most people grab an existing package, from ubuntu or debian, and then hammer on it
<sabdfl> then upload it to their PPA
<Hobbsee> oh, i see the point for blowing aawy components entirely
<lamont> Hobbsee: I expect it'll be behind a "I HAVE A CLUE DAMMIT" button.
<Hobbsee> lamont: ROFL!
 * Hobbsee want.
<sabdfl> and the specific rules about build dependencies between main and universe just add friction for them
<lamont> lots of friction, I expect
 * Hobbsee is surprised that the current stuff in components didn't all get copied into main, so that we dont lose great subsections of it.
 * lamont decides that it's bedtime
<Hobbsee> cprov-away: bug done.  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+bug/163716
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 163716 in soyuz "[regression] ppa does not find packages that were published to !main components, before the component combining" [Undecided,New] 
<Hobbsee> oh, how clever.  LP realises that there are words in there, and tags it with ppa and ui
<ubotu> New bug: #163716 in soyuz "[regression] ppa does not find packages that were published to !main components, before the component combining" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163716
<TiMiDo> anyone here?
<Hobbsee> no
<Hobbsee> these are 90 skelletons.
<Hobbsee> they're not actually here.
<jamesh> TiMiDo: if you have a question, it is usually best to go ahead and ask
<jamesh> (then wait around for an answer rather than quitting immediately)
<jamesh> we'll do our best to help
 * Hobbsee waves to jamesh
<jamesh> afternoon Hobbsee 
<TiMiDo> jamesh: when i try downloading the files mo archives, and suppostly, i'll get an email with the mo file
<TiMiDo> but nothing yet?
<Hobbsee> jamesh: didnt realise you were australian...
<TiMiDo> is there another way, of downloading it?
<jamesh> TiMiDo: there is a queue for translations exports.  Let me take a look
<jamesh> Hobbsee: still am :)
<Hobbsee> jamesh: where are you then?
<jamesh> Hobbsee: Perth
<ubotu> New bug: #163718 in launchpad "Should use the openid.sreg module to implement Simple Registration Extension" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163718
<Hobbsee> jamesh: ahhh.  pity.
<jamesh> TiMiDo: hmm.  I guess I don't have an easy way to check the status of the translation export queue
<jamesh> TiMiDo: how long have you been waiting so far?
<TiMiDo> Hmm for a while
<TiMiDo> maybe more than a few hours,
<jamesh> TiMiDo: the people who can check for sure (carlos, danilos, jtv) won't be up for a few more hours yet as they are on European time
<jamesh> TiMiDo: so the most I can say is to be patient
<jamesh> we do have a number of performance improvements pending for the next LP release, so things should improve in the future
<TiMiDo> oh ic,
<TiMiDo> well Nice chating with ya'll i have to go to sleep, tomorrow i've have school
<blober> hi, i need an online svn repository that has to be accessible only for some 4-5 persons for some weeks, than we plan to open it. is launchpad ok for that?
<LaserJock> blober: I wouldn't think so until you open it and launchpad I don't think Launchpad hosts svn, but bazaar
<LaserJock> but I'm just an Launchpad users so you might want to ask somebody more official than me
<mpt> Hobbsee, I'm sure ogra will be delighted to know you described him as a model
<blober> LaserJock: how? you mean a mailing list?
<LaserJock> blober: launchpad-users mailing list, which you can find on http://lists.ubuntu.com, would probably be a good place
<LaserJock> I'm not sure if many Launchpad people are awake yet
<Hobbsee> mpt: hehe, yeah :)
<Hobbsee> mpt: that got pointed out to me, and fixed.
<Hobbsee> mpt: maybe he wanted a model named after him.
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: ?
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: ? ?
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: (what?)
<blober> LaserJock: Thanks
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: what did you say about ogra?
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: https://launchpad.net/bugs/163716
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 163716 in soyuz "[regression] ppa does not find packages that were published to !main components, before the component combining" [Undecided,New] 
<Hobbsee> typo in the bug.
<Hobbsee> said the ogra model, not the ogre model.
<LaserJock> hahaha
<mpt> Why is it called the ogre model, anyway?
<mpt> Is it because it's like an onion?
<LaserJock> I can't remember
<LaserJock> cprov told me once I think
<Hobbsee> goodness only knows.  i didnt even know it had a name, until a few months ago.
<mpt> Smells like an implementation detail to me
<Hobbsee> mpt: hm?
<Hobbsee> ah, bugger, blender still doesn't work.
<LaserJock> mpt: very appropriate comment btw, as I'm watching Shrek the Third at the moment
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: should i upload the "still doesnt work, but merged version", or keep the "doesn't work" version in there? (which is old)
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: seems like we have quite a bit of time left to wait to get it merged right
<Hobbsee> this is true
<thumper> blober: launchpad doesn't host SVN
<thumper> blober: just bazaar branches
<thumper> blober: which are really good if I do say so myself
<carlos> morning
<Hobbsee> morning carlos!
<Hobbsee> mrevell!
<mrevell> hi Hobbsee :)
<mrevell> hello everyone else
<Hobbsee> mrevell: how was your hoilday?
<mrevell> Hobbsee: Not bad thanks.
<LaserJock> \o/ mrevell returns!
<mrevell> hi LaserJock :)
<ubotu> New bug: #163769 in launchpad "AssertionError when clicking "I'm Someone Else" twice" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163769
<ubotu> New bug: #163783 in rosetta "Automatically translated msgid "translator-credits" does not include year" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163783
<Hobbsee> carlos: ping
<carlos> Hobbsee: pong
<Hobbsee> carlos: got some time?
<carlos> sure
<Hobbsee> or are you busy?
 * Hobbsee queries
 * Hobbsee waves to cprov
<cprov> Hobbsee: hey
<Hobbsee> cprov: found the kdebase-workspace ppa problem :D
<cprov> Hobbsee: ta, I will move the old packages to main in a bit
<Hobbsee> cprov: ppa doc updated.  \o/
<cprov> Hobbsee: thanks.
<Hobbsee> cprov-lunch: no problem
<\sh> moins ppl :)
<\sh> can someone explain, why sometimes some ubuntu *-security uploads are generating a *-changes  mail and some not? 
<mrevell> \sh cprov-lunch could answer that when he's back from lunch
<\sh> mrevell, kk
<ubotu> New bug: #163857 in launchpad "Safari footer links" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163857
<afflux> Is there any way to override the distribution setting from debian/changelog when uploading to PPA? I.e. some sort of switch to dput to upload a single source-package to multiple distributions?
<cprov-lunch> afflux: you can't have the same version uploaded to multiple distributions in PPA (neither in ubuntu primary archive).
<Ubulette> is bazaar.lp broken ?
<Ubulette> I get No handlers could be found for logger "bzr" when i push, and it stays like that
<Ubulette> bzr: ERROR: Could not acquire lock "(remote lock)"
<gmb> Ubulette: did you get that error on a launchpad-hosted branch?
<Ubulette> yes
<gmb> Sorry... would've seen that, didn't read scrollback
<gmb> Have you tried bzr break-lock on the remote url?
<Ubulette> ix:~/bzr/prism$ bzr break-lock
<Ubulette> ix:~/bzr/prism$ bzr push
<Ubulette> Using saved location: bzr+ssh://fta@bazaar.launchpad.net/~mozillateam/prism/prism/
<Ubulette> No handlers could be found for logger "bzr"
<Ubulette> then nothing
<gmb> Okay. Let me see if I have any joy...
<thumper> Ubulette: that is a known bug, and I'm trying to remember the work around
<gmb> Or thumper could save the day :)
<Ubulette> i've pushed/pulled/merges/clones zillions of time before, 1st time it occurs
<thumper> Ubulette: see bug 152746
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 152746 in bzr "bzr commit to bzr+ssh hangs on 'No handlers could be found for logger "bzr"'" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/152746
<thumper> Ubulette: I think there is still an issue with break-lock and bzr+ssh for Launchpad, so try breaking the lock over sftp
<thumper> Ubulette: so `bzr break-lock sftp://fta@bazaar.launchpad.net/~mozillateam/prism/prism/`
<Ubulette> $ bzr break-lock sftp://fta@bazaar.launchpad.net/~mozillateam/prism/prism/
<Ubulette> Break lock sftp://fta@bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Emozillateam/prism/prism/.bzr/branch/lock
<Ubulette> held by fta@bazaar.launchpad.net on host vostok [process #16908]
<Ubulette> locked 2 hours, 59 minutes ago? [y/n]: y
<Ubulette> Break lock sftp://fta@bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Emozillateam/prism/prism/.bzr/repository/lock
<Ubulette> held by fta@bazaar.launchpad.net on host vostok [process #16908]
<Ubulette> locked 2 hours, 59 minutes ago? [y/n]: y
<Ubulette> $ bzr push
<Ubulette> Using saved location: bzr+ssh://fta@bazaar.launchpad.net/~mozillateam/prism/prism/
<Ubulette> No handlers could be found for logger "bzr"
<Ubulette> no change
<thumper> hmm...
<thumper> jml: ping
<thumper> Ubulette: what do you get if you push to sftp instead?
<Ubulette> $ bzr push sftp://fta@bazaar.launchpad.net/~mozillateam/prism/prism/
<Ubulette> bzr: ERROR: Can't rename /srv/sm-ng/push-branches/00/00/16/8b/.bzr/repository/lock/548gbgv38o.tmp to /srv/sm-ng/push-branches/00/00/16/8b/.bzr/repository/lock/held: /srv/sm-ng/push-branches/00/00/16/8b/.bzr/repository/lock/held already exists
<Ubulette> i did another break-lock, and pushed to sftp, it worked.
<Ubulette> well, thanks :)
<Ubulette> another push on bzr+ssh says nothing to push, so it looks fixed
<thumper> Ubulette: weird
<thumper> Ubulette: you can be assured that this bug will get fixed ASAP
<Ubulette> excellent :)
<jml> thumper: pong
<thumper> jml: what's the status with bug  152746?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 152746 in bzr "bzr commit to bzr+ssh hangs on 'No handlers could be found for logger "bzr"'" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/152746
<thumper> jml: you have something in review
<jml> thumper: is this the logging branch?
<thumper> jml: yeah
<jml> thumper: mwhudson was going to do it, but he felt that it would be best to wait for me to get back.
<jml> thumper: any particular questions?
<thumper> jml: I was trying to help Ubulette above with the problem
<jml> ah, I see
<LaserJock> thumper: is kiko on holiday do you know?
<thumper> LaserJock: yes he is
<LaserJock> bugger
<thumper> what's up?
<LaserJock> he was working on bug 130158 for me and I got some testing done for him
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 130158 in soyuz "Launchpad should provide dgettable URLs" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/130158 - Assigned to Christian Reis (kiko)
<LaserJock> so I was hoping to get some feedback from him on an ETA
<LaserJock> I guess the soonest would be the next rollout
<thumper> LaserJock: sorry, I don't know the status of this work
<LaserJock> yeah, it's np
<LaserJock> I just finally got around to getting the info he wanted and wanted to chat with him about it
<thumper> :)
<LaserJock> seems like everybody is on vacation when I want to talk to them
<LaserJock> :-)
<mpt> Goooooooooooooooooood morning Launchpadders!
<ubotu> New bug: #163921 in malone "+text date format is inconsistent" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163921
<ubotu> New bug: #163923 in rosetta "Download all translations does not include Turkish po file" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163923
<mpt> And good morning ubotu!
<Ubulette> how come firefox3 (1st pkg on https://edge.launchpad.net/~fta/+packages) is marked as "Not yet built" while it has been for days ?
#launchpad 2007-11-20
<jamesh> thumper: ping?
<thumper> jamesh: pong
<jamesh> thumper: I'm getting timeouts trying to access Launchpad at the moment.  I was wondering if it is just my connection or something further upstream
<thumper> jamesh: edge?
<jamesh> yeah
<thumper> seems ok to me
<thumper> what sort of things are you doing?
<thumper> I just went to the bzr overview and code page
<thumper> no problems
<jamesh> I'm also timing out on the Canonical IRC server
<thumper> jamesh: I think it is just you
<thumper> or your connection to the UK
<jamesh> thumper: thanks.  I guess I'll check with my ISP
<thumper> jamesh: ok
<aleka> What is the average lag time between requesting a translation .po file and receiving it via email on LP?
<Hobbsee> sabdfl: :D  thanks!
<ubotu> New bug: #163968 in malone "Problems with drop down list on incorrect team name" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163968
<sabdfl> sure Hobbsee
 * Hobbsee throws more stuff at ppa
 * Hobbsee pokes launchpad
<Hobbsee> error ID  OOPS-689EA15
<Hobbsee> mpt: do you want a bug for a broken URL, or do you want to just fix it?
<Hobbsee> +editemail != +contactaddress
<Hobbsee> bwah?
<Hobbsee> it appears these are 2 separate sections now.
<mpt> Hobbsee, I can use grep :-)
<Hobbsee> what happened to the old manage email addresses page, where you could select the default?
<Hobbsee> and why do we have this duplication?
<Hobbsee> mpt: https://edge.launchpad.net/%7Ekubuntu-members/+editemail is a 404, but apparently shouldn't point to https://edge.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/+contactaddress
<Hobbsee> because the dialog is different
 * Hobbsee wonders how one is supposed to set the default email address now.
<Hobbsee> or remove them.
 * Fujitsu guesses it's due to the new mailinglist crack.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: would be odd...
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: you used to be able to manage addresses for people and teams, and set the default
<Hobbsee> but i like this "notify the email, or notify everyone on the team" bit.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: It's like that on production too, so it's not a particularly new thing.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: how weird!
 * Fujitsu wonders how the upgrade can manage to take 3.5 hours.
<Hobbsee> mpt: i think i'll file a bug on this - because they're not the same dialog
<Fujitsu> Some translation schema changes, I guess...
<Hobbsee> and hey, one of my bugs got fixed in a day, so maybe it's worth reporting them :P
<Fujitsu> Nice.
<Hobbsee> was a soyuz regression bug, but still :)
<mpt> Hobbsee, yeah, it's a mistake that has its own typo
<Hobbsee> mpt: ah, goody :)
<Hobbsee> mpt: can i ask why we have 2 dialogs for essentially the same thing?
<mpt> Because barry needs more coffee
<Hobbsee> a logical enough reason, i guess :)
<stdin> do ppa's look in ${release}-backports ?
<mpt> It should be one page that shows different stuff depending on whether it's yourself or a team you're dealing with
<mpt> not two pages with one of them hidden by a typo
<Hobbsee> mpt: got it :)
<stdin> or can they?
<mpt> thanks Hobbsee 
<Fujitsu> stdin: They do not.
<Hobbsee> mpt: you're welcome, thanks for fixing it.
 * thumper checks for reviewer meeting
 * thumper notices it isn't on just yet, and heads back to the BBQ
 * Hobbsee heads off to work
 * thumper wishes he had a little program to send an SMS when pinged...
<jamesh> I think it is time for the review meeting
<jamesh> who is here?
<thumper> me
<thumper> sort of
<thumper> BBQ is cooking dinner
<thumper> :)
<jamesh> spiv, lifeless: ping for review meeting?
<jamesh> I guess jml and jtv won't be available
<thumper> nah, jml won't be making it today
 * thumper smells good food, garlic mushrooms I think...
<thumper> jamesh: it might just be you and me
<jamesh> I don't think there is much to discuss, so it'll be short
<thumper> there seems to be quite a few branches that didn't make it all the way through the review process for 1.1.11
<jamesh> any problem holding next weeks meeting at the same time?
<thumper> but the current queue is short
<thumper> same time is fine for me
<jamesh> I wonder how many of those branches were submitted for merge?
<thumper> I'm going to propose that they decide in the US/EU meeting that we implement the slots
<thumper> and suggest people no longer use the general queue
<thumper> not sure about the number submitted
<jamesh> given that there aren't many people here it is probably best to do the review process discussion on list
<thumper> it seems that quite a few got stuck in needs-reply
<thumper> jamesh: fair enough
<thumper> I think that almost everyone agrees anyway
 * thumper smells burning
<thumper> jamesh: I don't have anything else particular to bring up
<thumper> jamesh: do you?
<jamesh> nope.
<thumper> ok, it looks like we're done then
<thumper> thanks jamesh
 * thumper heads back to food and the BBQ
<lifeless> thanks jamesh; 
<lifeless> I started at 5am; finished earlier and was awol at the meeting time.
<ubotu> New bug: #163991 in malone "Attachments for initial comment are not displayed" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163991
<ubotu> New bug: #163997 in soyuz "Subject of Soyuz binaryful acceptance emails, emails, emails, emails, emails, emails stutter" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163997
<carlos> morning
<Fujitsu> Morning carlos.
<mrevell> morning
<Fujitsu> Hmm... Am I missing something, or are security uploads no longer being announced to *-changes?
<Fujitsu> That seems to be a fairly nasty regression.
<slytherin> Hi. Has anyone else noticed this. Changing the ownership of a bzr branch doesn't change the url in branch/bound i.e. target branch
<Fujitsu> Right, there have been no security uploads announced to -changes since they day before 1.1.10.
 * Fujitsu files a bug.
<ubotu> New bug: #164027 in soyuz "As of 1.1.10, security uploads no longer generate announcements to <distroseries>-changes" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164027
<ubotu> New bug: #164029 in launchpad-bazaar "Changing owner of a branch does not change target url in branch/bound" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164029
<Fujitsu> slytherin: Erm, how is Launchpad going to modify your local branch?
<slytherin> Fujitsu: no. this is not about modifying local branch. I synced/pulled from launchpad from scratch.
<Fujitsu> slytherin: Which URL did you pull from?
<slytherin> Fujitsu: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~apt-offline/apt-offline/dev
<Fujitsu> slytherin: Works fine for me.
<Fujitsu> It would be the local bzr setting that URL, anyway.
<slytherin> Fujitsu: works fine as in? what did you try?
<Fujitsu> slytherin: I bzr got it.
<Fujitsu> Then bzr upped and bzr infoed it.
<slytherin> let me try pull from scratch once again
<Fujitsu> I suspect you were using an old branch (accidentally or otherwise), as I don't see where it could get that URL otherwise.
<slytherin> Fujitsu: hmm. looks like it is not a bug. my bad. I will try a few things first and then close it as invalid
 * Hobbsee waves
<stdin> hmm, is there a limit (quota) for ppa's?
<Hobbsee> stdin: 1gb, but not yet
<Hobbsee> not until you can remove packages
<stdin> Hobbsee: good, because apparently I'm using 4.4GB
<mrevell> The 1gb quote will almost certainly be negotiable
<mrevell> s/quote/quota
 * Hobbsee waves to mrevell and carlos
<mrevell> yo Hobbsee
<mrevell> Hmm, I'm gonna take a lunch break. biab
 * Hobbsee waves to Spads
 * Spads waves in return
<gnomefreak> are the buildds for ppa hardy messed up by chance?
<Hobbsee> gnomefreak: which in particular?
<gnomefreak> not sure atm but it was 386 64 and the other arch all failed, said failed to apply or remove patch but builds fine locally
<gnomefreak> let me see if i can find it
<gnomefreak> its a bunch of them
<Hobbsee> gnomefreak: if you've got a build log, that would be handy
<gnomefreak> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10478174/buildlog_ubuntu-hardy-i386.nss_3.12.0%7Ecvs20071118t2115-0ubuntu1%7Eppa1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz  failed during make not patches
<gnomefreak> all nss failed that way
<gnomefreak> nspr failed with http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10478117/buildlog_ubuntu-hardy-i386.nspr_4.7.0%7Ecvs20071106t1834-0ubuntu1%7Eppa1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<Hobbsee> gnomefreak: how's that a failed to apply or remove patch?
<gnomefreak> nspr is the failed patch Applying patch 30_config_64bits.patch
<gnomefreak> patching file mozilla/nsprpub/configure.in
<gnomefreak> Hunk #1 FAILED at 52.
<gnomefreak> Hunk #2 FAILED at 218.
<gnomefreak> 2 out of 2 hunks FAILED -- rejects in file mozilla/nsprpub/configure.in
<gnomefreak> Patch 30_config_64bits.patch can be reverse-applied
<gnomefreak> nss is glibc errors
<Hobbsee> i'd only looked at the first one
<Hobbsee> that would be...rather odd for that to build locally
<gnomefreak> nss (the first one) is glibc errors and come to think of it i have a bug on that, but why would it build cleanly here
<gnomefreak> i built and have it installed
<Hobbsee> what are you building in?
<gnomefreak> http://pastebin.mozilla.org/246174
<gnomefreak> that is build dir for nss
<gnomefreak> im building it in hardy system
<gnomefreak> no chroot no pbuilder just system
<Hobbsee> head-->desk.
<Hobbsee> try it in a proper builder (sbuild or pbuilder), and see if it still breaks.
<gnomefreak> nspr xulrunner and ff3 also built fine here
 * gnomefreak doesnt know how to use pbuilder thats why i use chroots
<Hobbsee> asked for help?
<Hobbsee> followed !pbuilder?
<gnomefreak> i didnt think there was a need since it built fine here
<Hobbsee> you need a clean source, and a clean build place, how else do you expect it to work fine on others systems?
 * Hobbsee wonders if the patch is already applied or something, so that's why it's bailing.
<gnomefreak> i didnt add patches i just renamed already built sources and re tared the dir up and changelog edit
<Fujitsu> pbuilders are easier to use than plain chroots, and actually do sane things.
 * Hobbsee tries it here
<gnomefreak> Hobbsee: nspr needs to be first build
<gnomefreak> cant remember what version of nspr and nss are in hardy but since i was building it for ppa nsor than nss than xulrunner than ff3
<Hobbsee> gnomefreak: OK, so it doesnt apply here
<gnomefreak> it does here :(
 * gnomefreak wonders why
<Hobbsee> gnomefreak: debian/patches/30_config_64bits.patch is already applied to your source.
 * Hobbsee thinks you screwed over your source, and didn't rebuild in a clean place
<Hobbsee> gnomefreak: in fact, both 30_'s have been applied, adn it's bad to have 2 patches starting with the same #
<Hobbsee> methinks you applied the patches to the source, *then* built the source.
<gnomefreak> Hobbsee: i didnt make the patches i only took already built sources from someones archive to build for ppa
<gnomefreak> might have i will try cleaning it up and trying again
<Hobbsee> yup, they're all already applied.
<Hobbsee> gnomefreak: who was the someone, and do you trust their packaging skills to be sane?  :)
<gnomefreak> yes i trust them
<gnomefreak> they started on 3.0 right after alpha1
<Hobbsee> then either their source was wrong...or yours is :)
<gnomefreak> i think i know what happened its my fault if im right
<Hobbsee> the patches got applied manually, it appears, and then the source got built.
<AnMaster> hey is there a way to get new commits in a branch hosted on launchpad as rss, subscribing seems to be email only, right?
<AnMaster> I just want rss with the commit message of new commits
<gmb> AnMaster: At the moment that functionality isn't available. However, it is being worked on :)
<AnMaster> ah I see
<cavedon> hi all!
<cavedon> mrevell, SteveA: what about launchapd-beta-testers membership approvation?
<mrevell> cavedon: Hi, have you have applied for membership?
<cavedon> I made a resquest a couple of days ago
<cavedon> on 17th
<mrevell> cavedon: I've approved your membership. welcome to the team
<cavedon> mrevell: thank you!
<mrevell> np :)
<lamont> cprov: could I talk you into a mass-give-back on lpia/hardy?
<lamont> I get tired of clicking
<ubotu> New bug: #164065 in launchpad-bazaar "more revision properties" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164065
<Hobbsee> lamont: another greasemonkey script required?
<lamont> that's more than a script...
<Hobbsee> ooh, more interesting options here
<Hobbsee> oh i know :)
<Hobbsee> lamont: it's yours that does the build rescores in a click, isnt it?
<lamont> mithrandir is more to blame for it - I just use it.
<lamont> otoh, the version I have is currently broken (claims to work, doesn't change anything)
<cprov> lamont: I'm about to leave for lunch, can we talk when I come back or is it urgent ?
<Hobbsee> lamont: the one i'm using works fine
 * lamont wishes those LP guys would quit breaking greasemonkey scripts with their changes...
<lamont> cprov: no hurry
<lamont> there are a bunch of failures and I'm too lazy to figure out which ones
<lamont> :-)
<cprov> lamont: ok, talk to you in bit.
<lamont> Hobbsee: hrm... could be that retry works, and rescore is b0rked.  dunno
<Hobbsee> lamont: although, it appears to just say it's worked, show the correct increment, but not go back to the previous page
<Hobbsee> which should be simple to fix, but i dont speak greasemonkeyesque.
<lamont> I don't mind it not going back a page... what I was seeing was that when I went back to the build queue and hit shift-reload, I didn't see the new scores.
<lamont> which is, um, strange
<Hobbsee> weird.  i'd say yours is borken
<lamont> cprov-lunch: actually, the bigger question is why lpia isn't doing anything with the 300+ builds it has in needs-build...
<Hobbsee> lamont: i was wondering that earlier.
<lamont> hppa is back below 2600 needs-builds... :-(
<Hobbsee> mrevell: u-d mail unmoderated btw.
<mrevell> Hobbsee: Thanks. I thought I was a member. I'll have to rejoin.
<Hobbsee> mrevell: for non-developers, it's moderated.
<Hobbsee> and as you're not a part of ~ubuntu-dev...
<mrevell> Hobbsee: Ah right...
<Hobbsee> :)
<lamont> cprov-lunch: and ~lamont/chroot-fresh has freshened hardy chroots to help speed the build process along a little
 * lamont heads officewards
<ubotu> New bug: #164071 in malone "The comments in +text are difficult to read" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164071
<ubotu> New bug: #164136 in rosetta "+translate page triggering a ShortListTimeOutError" [Critical,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164136
<ubotu> New bug: #164144 in launchpad "oops tools should categorize ProtocolErrorException in a different section" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164144
<crevette> hello
<crevette> is there people here which can help me with liblaunchpad-integration APIs ?
<glatzor> Hello, I would need to remove some file from a PPA, since I made a versioning error
<crevette> how can I integrate liblaunchpad-integration with glade ?
<crevette> gcalctool migrates to glade
<crevette> migrated even
<carlos> crevette: you mean to get the extra entries in the Help menu?
<glatzor> crevette: take a look at synaptic
<glatzor> crevette: basically a three line patch:
<glatzor> +#include <launchpad-integration.h>+   widget = glade_xml_get_widget (_gladeXML, "help1_menu");
<glatzor> +   launchpad_integration_add_items (widget, -1, TRUE, TRUE);
<crevette> thanks glatzor
<jelmer> is there some XML/RPC that can be used to obtain the list of branches registered on launchpad?
<ubotu> New bug: #164162 in launchpad "OOPS when requesting a non-existent host" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164162
<thumper> morning lunch padders
<mpt> Gooooooooooooooood morning Launchpadders!
<thumper> morning mpt
<cr3> is there a plan to make code.launchpad.net support private branches?
<thumper> cr3: yes, why?
<cr3> thumper: I would very much like that for my own projects :) is there any scheduled date for this feature?
<thumper> cr3: yes, see priv msg
<ubotu> New bug: #164196 in malone "Quickly-undone actions shouldn't send mail notifications" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164196
<stdin> are the any PPA admins about, I need some packages removed from my PPA
#launchpad 2007-11-21
<Hobbsee> heya Rinchen!
<Rinchen> hi there Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> lamont: you're right, btw.  the script is not working.
<lamont> Hobbsee: cool.
<lamont> I guess.
<lamont> I mean, that means it's not just me.
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> yeah
<Hobbsee> lamont: any idea on how to go about fixing lpia, btw?
<lamont> I think it was fixed..
<lamont> so now I'm waiting to see if I'm right
<Hobbsee> it's still not taken any builds
<Hobbsee> so, unless you've just fixed it, i'd say it's still borken
<lamont> iz b0rked
<lamont> and on the list for me to work with cprov on tomorrow.
<lamont> someohow
<lamont> dealing with an escalation at the day job... that just requires 100% of my time
<Hobbsee> hehe :)
<Hobbsee> fair enough
<lamont> I really want to have serious progress tomorrow, so that I can take thur/fri off for that national holiday thing we have this week
<lamont> lifeless: you around?
<lamont> bzr: ERROR: bzrlib.errors.BzrCheckError: Internal check failed: file u'/etc/init.d/stop-bootlogd' entered as kind 'symlink' id 'stopbootlogd-20071119183925-bf194164ecf5c346', now of kind 'file'
<lamont> how do I make that go away?
<Hobbsee> lamont: sheesh, how many did you bork?  :)
<lamont> Hobbsee: nah - that's something different
<lamont> and I fixed that with 'dpkg --purge bzr'
<Hobbsee> wasnt meaning that :)
<Hobbsee> lamont: palmer appears to have stalled, too.
<lamont> heh.  elmo sounds different when he's asleep.
<baijum> hi
<baijum> when I push my changes to bzr, I am getting an error like this:
<baijum> No handlers could be found for logger "bzr
<Ubulette> got that yesterday too
<lifeless> lamont: yes
<lifeless> lamont: get a bzr released this century
<lamont> lifeless: it's a buildd machine... iz running edgy
<lamont> which it will continue to run.
<lamont> I fixed it by nuking bzr
<lamont> E: Problem executing scripts DPkg::Post-Invoke 'if [ -d /etc/.bzr ]; then LANG=C /usr/bin/bzr st /etc; fi'
<lamont> where does that come from anyway?
<Hobbsee> must be time for an upgrade.  i'm surprised it's not running dapper.
<lamont> lpia buildds run edgy.  everything else runs dapper
<Hobbsee> ahhh
<lamont> hppa runs dapper with a gutsy kernel.  go us.
<lamont> sadly, nuking bzr wasn't enough: I had to mv /etc/.bzr :)
<lamont> and no, you should never run a gutsy kernel on dapper.  there are udev issues.
<Fujitsu> Why would the lpia buildds be running edgy? Didn't they only appear post-Feisty?
<lamont> the hardware for some of them aren't supported by dapper
<lamont> (they run x86 bits outside the chroot)
<lamont> oops.  hadn't realized the lpia buildds were blocking slave-scanner
<lamont> and fixing the first bug didn't do squat for the overall success of the program
<Fujitsu> lamont: That slave-scanner-destroying bug is meant to be fixed tomorrow, right?
<lamont> Fujitsu: that requires some cprov/lamont time on the machines, so yeah, it's a tomorrow thing.
<Fujitsu> lamont: I mean in 1.1.11.
<lamont> and yes, modulo the fact that I have no time, I'll see how much time I can create to work with him on fixing it, and get lpia back in the running
<Fujitsu> I saw something targetted along those lines, IIRC.
<lamont> oh, no clue on that
<lamont> I know that as of today, lpia buildd's were not building anything (they're dying with an exception).  No clue as to root cause of that, etc.
<lamont> I have a hotsite that I'm working on (day job) tomorrow that will seriously affect my availability, though.
<lamont> it may even affect my thanksgiving holiday
<lifeless> lamont: for old bzr you can 'bzr rm foo; bzr add foo'
<lamont> lifeless: ah, cool
<lifeless> ciao
 * Hobbsee wishes for blackholing ubuntu-core-dev
<jamesh> Hobbsee: we're working on it
<Hobbsee> jamesh: \o/
 * Hobbsee is tired of getting unrelated bugmail to her, because some nutter has assigned ubuntu-core-dev, or ubuntu-dev.
<jamesh> it won't be in this week's release though
<Hobbsee> pity.  ah well.
<gnomefreak> are the admins able to remove packages from PPA yet? i need to beable to overwerite a package since hte orig.tar.gz is borked and with the fixed one it has diff. md5sums so its kind of blocking me from doing anything atm
<lifeless> when does the 0.92 support rollout on lp ?
<jamesh> lifeless: presumably with the rest of the code this week
<lifeless> cool
<carlos> morning
<Hobbsee> damn, mrevell isnt here yet.
<carlos> Hobbsee: he should come soon
<ubotu> New bug: #164304 in rosetta "Duplicate empty translations" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164304
<Ubulette> https://edge.launchpad.net/+builds/palmer  	 Started 22 hours ago
<Hobbsee> mrevell: ping
<mrevell> hello Hobbsee!
<Hobbsee> :D
 * Hobbsee --> query
<lamont> morning Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> heya lamont!
<Hobbsee> lamont: how goes it?
<lamont> Hobbsee: showered, shaved, dressed, and heading to work in about 20 seconds
<Hobbsee> lamont: well done :)
<lamont> :-D
<lamont> and a conf call in about 5 hours on the escalation, for which I have much to get done.
<lamont> :(
<lamont> anyway, out the door
<ubotu> New bug: #164340 in rosetta "Do not fetch suggestions for read-only messages like translator credits" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164340
 * Hobbsee ponders the idea of team sub-ppa's.
<soren> sub-ppa's?
<Hobbsee> as in, a team owns a ppa - that there's one for production stuff, and one for random testing stuff
<Hobbsee> mpt: you said https://edge.launchpad.net/%7Ekubuntu-members/+editemail was a typo - what's the correct address supposed to be?
<Hobbsee> +2 more bugs for me to file.
<soren> Hobbsee: Teams can have ppa's already.
<Hobbsee> launchpad doesnt deal with big numbers, and dialogs that are mandatory to continue should *not* be marked (optional)
<soren> Hobbsee: ...so the issue is a production vs. testing repo?
<soren> Hobbsee: Why should that only apply for team ppa's?
<Hobbsee> soren: yeah.  figured out the way around it, though
<Hobbsee> well, users too if they want it, i guess
<soren> Yes?
<Hobbsee> register another team, make the first team members of it.
<Hobbsee> make the admin the same.  no more problem.
<soren> Ngh..
<soren> Well, yes. That... works.
<Hobbsee> except that the address of it is already published, and it relies on someone copying over a whole bunch of stuff
<Hobbsee> well, this is true.  it's a bad and nasty workaround, but it works.
<Hobbsee> soren: i never said it was elegant :)
<soren> Indeed you didn't :)
<gmb> Meeting time?
<barry> welcome everybody to this week's ameu launchpad code reviewer's meeting
<flacoste> hi barry!
<sinzui> me, before keyboard locks me out
<barry> who's here to day?
<gmb> me
<bac> me
<intellectronica> me
<flacoste> me
<barry> mwhudson sends his apologies
<barry> ddaa: ping?
<bac> statik is still on holiday
<intellectronica> BjornT is on holiday, afaik
<barry> == Agenda ==
<barry>  * Roll call
<barry>  * Next meeting
<barry>  * Action items
<barry>  * Queue status
<barry>  * Mentoring update
<barry>  * Review process changes
<ddaa> pong
<barry>    * On-call reviewer (sole responsibility?)
<barry>    * 1-2 day branches
<barry>    * 24h reviews
<barry>    * Cover letter
<barry>    * Death to [trivial] (non-reviewers can review?)
<barry>    * Partial reviews
<barry> salgado-lunch: ping?
<barry> SteveA_: ping
<barry> oh actually, i think SteveA_ is away
<ddaa> me
<barry>  * Next meeting
<barry> same time and place?  anybody know they will not be able to make it?
<barry> cool
<barry>  * Action items
<barry> both are jml's and i think he's away so we'll skip those
<barry> i removed a few action items that i think are overtaken by other events (e.g. the reviewer tool mwhudson and gmb are working on)
<barry>  * Queue status
<barry> it looks pretty good to me
<barry> stub and SteveA_ win the stale branch awards for today :)
<barry>  * Mentoring update
<barry> anything new to discuss here?
<barry> 5
<barry> 4
<barry> 3
<barry> 2
<barry> 1
<barry>  * Review process changes
<barry> so i've read through the thread so far and i think a couple of things are emerging
<barry> there seems to be consensus about having on-call reviewers, but not banning them from coding on review days
<barry> does anybody /not/ like this idea?
<flacoste> no
 * barry encourages everyone to pick a slot, first come first serve: https://launchpad.canonical.com/OnCallReviewers
<flacoste> i think coding is fine, and the on-call reviewer will be responsible to shelve his coding activity as soon as review duty
<flacoste> is needed
<barry> flacoste: yep, let's try that. i'll update that wiki page after this meeting
<barry> hopefully we can get good timezone coverage, and i'll pass this on to AsiaPac
<barry>    * 1-2 day branches
<barry> the feedback so far seemed to think this should be a goal but not a requirement
<barry> any comments?
<barry> ok
<flacoste> i have
<barry> flacoste: the floor is yours
<flacoste> this is something which is really a development process issue
<flacoste> not a review process issue
<flacoste> altough it does have an impact on the review process
<flacoste> but still, i don't think it should be part of the review process improvement discussion
<barry> flacoste: fair enough.  i think the artifact of such branches that reviewers see is the branch size.  i can't say for sure, but my intuition is that 1-2 day branches will be far below the 2k size limit
<barry> for the most part
<flacoste> right
<flacoste> so, from the review process
<flacoste> what we should say is: lower branch size
<flacoste> if you want to get a review larger than 1k
<flacoste> you have to take special arrangement with a reviewer first
<flacoste> no, automatic allocation, etc.
<flacoste> or even 800k
<flacoste> 800 lines i mean
<flacoste> so reviewers can expect a regular flow
<flacoste> and interruption in that flow have to be negotiated
<flacoste> so no surprise of coming one morning and having 2k lines to review
<bac> francis has a good point.  reviewers don't care how long a branch was crafted, just the resulting size.
<barry> flacoste, bac i completely agree
<flacoste> ok, i'll reply to the thread with the above argument
<flacoste> and suggests a new improvement
<barry> we already have that policy, but the limit is 2k lines.  i'm all in favor of lowering that limit
 * flacoste has an action item and is done
<barry> flacoste: thanks!
<barry>    * Cover letter
<flacoste> i would suggest 800 lines
<barry> flacoste: sure. include that in your email
<barry> i think there's no disagreement that a cover letter should now be required.  right?
<gmb> +1
<barry> we'll eventually get tool support for this, but for now i don't much care how it's done.  someone pastebin'd me a cover letter and that worked fine
<gmb> (As much from a developer POV as a reviewer one).
 * barry can't wait for gmb and mwhudson 's tool :)
<barry>    * Death to [trivial] (non-reviewers can review?)
<barry> there's a bit of controversy around this one, but i'm still in favor of it
<barry> i really liked bigjools-afk 's suggestion that non-reviewers can get involved in eyeballing trivial changes
<barry> any thoughts on that?
<flacoste> i agree
 * bigjools is not really afk :)
<barry> howdy bigjools !
<bigjools> hey :)
<sinzui> I think that is a good way to get everyone involoved
<gmb> +1 on that, too.
<bac> +1 on bigjools' suggestion
 * bigjools feels the love
<barry> with the caveat that if the changes really don't appear trivial, kick it back into the normal review process
<ddaa> -1 on bigjools'
<barry> ddaa: but bigjools is such a likeable guy!
<ddaa> one of the things the reviewers are responsible for is keeping the longish reviewchecklist and coding style guide in mind
<ddaa> In my experience, trivial changes (and changes done after merge-conditional) are easy avenues for things that would not go past a trained reviewer
<bigjools> it depends on how you define trivial
<flacoste> ddaa has a point
<ddaa> silly things like column wrapping, make lint, etc.
<ddaa> or missing tests
<flacoste> missing test isn't really trivial
<bigjools> anything requiring a test is not trivial
<ddaa> right, that was not a good point to make here
<barry> so for this to work, we need a narrow and precise definition of what trivial is
<ddaa> I'm all in favor of growing the review team as fast as possible, but I do not feel comfortable about this "anybody can review trivial" idea.
<barry> ddaa: would it be enough to say trivial changes can only happen in comments and docstrings?
<ddaa> is there a lot of those? There's still a risk there: getting comments that contradicts the code is bad
<ddaa> but I guess a code should always know better than a reviewer about this sort of issue
<ddaa> So: Is there a lot of those, worthy of this exception?
 * ddaa apologize for his habit of thinking aloud
<barry> ddaa: i don't know
<intellectronica> how about formatting?
<flacoste> trivial is used for many non-trivial things
<flacoste> that's the problem we are trying to address
<flacoste> i would argue that more than 50% of trivial aren't trivial at all
<flacoste> and that trivial formatting/style/narrative/cleanup are the minority
<flacoste> we could gather data about this
<ddaa> flacoste: right, in the end either we forbid trivial, or we need some post-landing review to ensure that trivial is used properly.
<flacoste> let's sample the last month of trivial landing
<intellectronica> i think the definition is pretty clear - a trivial branch doesn't change the behaviour of the application at all
<bigjools> the point of the second set of eyeballs is that they knock it back if it's not really trivial
<flacoste> intellectronica: well, that's already the case
<flacoste> the problem is that this definition isn't respected
<flacoste> so ddaa is right: forbid it or post-review each one fo them
<barry> flacoste: can we reasonably expect non-reviewers to know when something is not trivial?
<flacoste> we had a process about the former
<flacoste> but we haven't kept with it
<ddaa> barry: experience shows we can't
<salgado> in the last 30 days we had 30 trivial landings out of 131 landings in total, ftr
<flacoste> i say death to trivial
<flacoste> salgado: and how much of those were trivial by the current definitions
 * sinzui made excellent use of trivial
<flacoste> all of stubs aren't :-)
<flacoste> sinzui is exceptional :-!
<barry> the flip side is whether on-call reviewers make death to trivial (alone) manageable
<bigjools> I would like to point out that death to trivial makes it less likely that people will feel inclined to fix trivial issues
<ddaa> death to trivial + on-call reviewers +1
<intellectronica> my concern is that in many cases this will either discourage people from making trivial changes or slow people down while they try to sort out a review (even if it's easy), before starting on the 'real' branch
<salgado> flacoste, that's not very easy to find out.  I'll be able to tell in a few minutes
<barry> bigjools: maybe the opposite though.  if you could make a trivial change, get an approval over irc in 5 minutes, and land it in 10, it might be okay
<gmb> Won't on-call reviewers help to make death-to-trivial easier to swallow though?
<flacoste> i think the discouraging idea is bogus
<bigjools> barry: that's more effort than it is right now though
<flacoste> let's see some real data before hand
<bigjools> but I would suggest killing it for now and see how it goes
<ddaa> Personally, I find that "making a new branch, and getting it through pqm" is the dominating overhead for trivial fixes.
<bigjools> thxbye
<flacoste> intellectronica: there is no need to wait before starting the real change
<barry> meta-point: i think this idea clearly needs more baking and data.  let's move it back to the mailing list
<flacoste> i mean just merge it in your new one
<barry> salgado: if you could spend a few minutes gathering some data and post it to the list, that would be great
<intellectronica> flacoste: i suppose you're right, you can always depend on the trivial branch
<flacoste> you can merge again later
<sinzui> I do a trivial commit for almost every assigned task I have to keep my diff smaller.
<barry> ddaa: maybe you could follow up to that thread with your concerns
<intellectronica> fair enough, maybe losing trivial is not so bad after all
<ddaa> barry: I'm hopelessly behind the lp ML. Anyway, my point is nothing new.
<sinzui> Regardless of what it is called, the 'trivial' branches will continue because of the need to keep branches focused.
<ddaa> barry: agreed, empirical data can help sort it out.
<barry> ddaa: k
<ddaa> Let's move on.
<barry> agreed
<barry>    * Partial reviews
<barry> there seems to be some support for this, but also reservations
<barry> really, i think it's mostly to get into the 24h sla
<barry> the idea being that /some/ response within 24h is better than silence
<barry> thoughts?
 * ddaa raises hand
<barry> ddaa: go ahead
<ddaa> Did only a couple of reviews so far
<gmb> Again, from a developer standpoint as much as owt else I'm +1
<ddaa> but I found that sometimes issues raised at the start of the review are resolved by the reviewer itself later in the review.
<ddaa> partial reviews risk causing needless discussion about things that the reviewer would have resolved himself by finishing the review.
<ddaa> Whether this risk is worth discarding the benefit of faster response time, I do not know.
<barry> ddaa: this can sometimes happen, yes.  another thing that can happen is that systemic problems become more apparent later in the review
<gmb> I think that partial reviews are good in circumstances where events beyond the reviewer's control prevent them from completing the review.
<gmb> Such as conflicts in a branch.
<ddaa> barry: "new problems found later" is not an issue for partial reviews. What's an issue is "non-issues that cause needless discussion".
<flacoste> i think that partial reviews should be exceptional
<flacoste> if we have many partial reviews, something else is broken in our process
<flacoste> so i think that partial reviews are fine
<barry> flacoste: i agree
<intellectronica> i think it would be best to limit this to cases where the review can't continue for some reason - conflicts, timing, dependencies, etc'...
<flacoste> but we should monitor how many we do
<ddaa> flacoste+1
<barry> small branches should make this rare
<flacoste> and raise an alert if we have many of them
<ddaa> partial reviews is a better way to degrade than late reviews
<barry> flacoste: do we need a way to flag partial reviews, e.g. in the subject heading, review status, wiki page?
<flacoste> that would make it easier to track
<flacoste> so that's a good idea
<flacoste> PARTIAL REVIEW:
<flacoste> insted of REVIEW:
<ddaa> I vote for adopting partial reviews as a degraded mode of operation.
<flacoste> we can then easily count how many PARTIAL REVIEWS were done in a cycle
<barry> yeah, that would be easy to add to utilities/review :)
<intellectronica> the problem with the title is that if you read your mail in threads your review material will end up in two threads
<intellectronica> i really like having the complete story in one thread when finalizing a branch
<barry> intellectronica: yeah, the review script doesn't help here.  you'd have to do the follow up in response to the original message
<ddaa> intellectronica: That's okay I think. The important point is "partial review is not the normal mode of operation".
<barry> yep. okay, i'll write this up.  is there anything else on this topic?
<barry> 5
<barry> 4
<barry> 3
<barry> 2
<barry> 1
<flacoste> intellectronica: that's what threading should be done based on Reference header,not subject :-)
<barry> cool that's it for me.  raise your hand if you have anything not on the agenda
<ddaa> flacoste: the "review.py" script does not know how to set this header :)
<barry> 5
<barry> 4
<barry> 3
<barry> 2
<flacoste> well, the initial message doesn't need one
<flacoste> and you can't use that script for follow-up?
<barry> 1
<barry> flacoste: not currently
<barry> MEETING ENDS
<barry> (and on time this week :)
<barry> thanks everybody!
<bac> thx barry
<eaqua> hello, can anyone tell me how to use the launchpad translation service with java .properties files ? I remember trying converting the .properties files to .pot (there's an option with gettext) and I submitted a tar that was rejected (as I never saw a result)
<carlos> eaqua: hi, for which project did you upload it?
<eaqua> carlos: netbeans
<carlos> eaqua: hmm I don't see any rejection nor pending file to be imported for it
<eaqua> carlos: https://translations.launchpad.net/netbeans
<carlos> eaqua: where did you submitted that tarball ?
<eaqua> carlos: well, I had a tar in there ages ago, sat in the queue a lot then I forgot about it. never got some email of rejection or something.
<carlos> did you change the entries status to 'Delete' or something like that?
<eaqua> carlos: I uploaded it in my project page. The interface was a bit different back then(15th March or so). but I do remember the queue having tons of pending files to aprove.
<eaqua> carlos: no, i didn't change to delete.
<carlos> hmm, then the only chance is that, for some reason, we rejected it... let me try to see whether I see anything in my outbox...
<eaqua> carlos: it was a big tar with lots of .pot files converted from .properties with msginit. maybe the format was wrong or something.
<carlos> it's a manual process to accept/reject the initial upload so we should give you an answer...
<carlos> found it (I think)
<carlos> eaqua: I rejected it and sent you an email
<carlos> eaqua: I rejected it because at that time, the project said that it was 'Romanian Translation of NetBeans IDE'
<eaqua> carlos: yes, that's what I was planning to use it for.
<carlos> and that's against our policy
<carlos> let me resend you the email
<eaqua> carlos: I didn't want to start an official netbeans project on launchpad 
<eaqua> carlos: aha, I was just trying to use the translation service, nothing else.
<eaqua> carlos: you need a full package so to speak :)
<carlos> eaqua: well, the problem is that we don't have yet a way to restrict a project translation to a single team
<carlos> so that will produce that other language translators start translating netbeans too in Launchpad
<carlos> but those translations will be completely wasted and never used
<eaqua> carlos: makes sense. so was the tar file ok. that is, may I re-create the tar and re-submit it ?
<carlos> well, I didn't see anything wrong with the tarball itself, but what you want to do is still against our policy, unless you get the approval of netbeans developers to use Launchpad for translations and you or any of the core developer team agreed on update those .pot file and .po files from time to time
<eaqua> carlos: do I need to guarantee somehow that any translation will go upstream ?
<carlos> in both ways
<carlos> either update Launchpad with any update done in their source tree or update their tree with any update done in Launchpad
<carlos> eaqua: yeah
<carlos> eaqua: we have more details in our policy page (you have it in the email I forwarded to you)
<carlos> well, you have it here too, just in case you don't get the email: https://help.launchpad.net/TranslationsImportPolicy
<eaqua> carlos: hm, this is almost impossible. if my team will show launchpad is usable others might join, but right now people are using desktop-only tools with local files. it would be kinda hard to convince a full migration to launchpad.
<carlos> eaqua: you don't really need a full migration, although the offline use case also work from Launchpad because they could download / upload the files in Launchpad
<carlos> eaqua: we only require that the developers are aware of that Launchpad usage and that someone take care of the sync in both ways
<carlos> if they use Launchpad directly, the sync only needs to be done for the .pot files and they will get all translations from time to time from Launchpad, but that's not a must
<eaqua> carlos: well, i don't get it. so I will upload the .pot files and start translating in my language. the upstream owners will know about this. I will also notify other teams about this in case some "unaproved" translations in other languages start but it will be their job to use that if they want. where exactly am I breaking the launchpad policy ?
<carlos> eaqua: will you upload any other existing translation for other languages?
<carlos> if you don't do that, and there is, for instance a full one for Spanish, someone would start another one in Launchpad
<carlos> and that's one of the things we want to avoid
<carlos> when you send your translations to netbeans developers, will you include any other update for other languages in Launchpad?
<eaqua> well, right now the project isn't call "romanian" anymore. so in theory people would just need to upload the spanish .po files.
<carlos> if you don't do that we have again some lose efforts
<carlos> so what we require is that someone takes the responsibility of preventing this to happen and to do the sync
<eaqua> it's a cyclic problem: obviously not all teams want/need to use launchpad. but due to the launchpad policy nobody is allowed ?
<eaqua> i can upload the .po files for other languages from time to time. but they won't be used.
<carlos> why they will not be used?
<eaqua> and the upstream teams for other languages will probably disregard the input unless it's massive (many contributions).
<eaqua> well, no spanish translator will use launchpad that is.
<eaqua> as they have their own mailing list and own little set of tools, etc.
<carlos> you mean from current Spanish translation team for netbeans I guess
<carlos> ok
<eaqua> yes, as an example.
<carlos> what about new languages not available in netbeans?
<eaqua> oh, I'm fine with that.
<carlos> will you send those translations?
<eaqua> of course, I can do that, or other people will take charge of their own (native) language.
<carlos> sure, if you delegate that to someone else
<carlos> that's fine
<carlos> as long as those translations are not stalled in Launchpad
<eaqua> i see.
<carlos> ok, so I guess the best solution for this is
<carlos> hmm, let me check something first
<carlos> and I will be back with a proposal 
<eaqua> the point is this would be a way to "pitch" launchpad (as well to see if it's useful). I don't see a point in submitting the existing translations as these have existing teams in place and people will be just confused seing stuff in launchpad. but for new teams it's good start to see the "popular" demand. in the end maybe the existing ones will migrate too.
<carlos> eaqua: well, if you import everything each time you sync the templates, it helps them to see how it works for them and even to get new contributors for their language
<eaqua> can I put a message saying that language X has a separate mailing list and that they might want to join that before submitting to launchpad ? (as the X team doesn't actually us launchpad ?)
<eaqua> s/us/use/
<carlos> eaqua: yes
<carlos> I just discussed this with danilos, another Launchpad Translations admin
<carlos> and we agreed that we could setup a Translation group for netbeans
<carlos> where we will add a team per existing language that will block it for translation changes
<eaqua> read-only basically ?
<carlos> yeah
<carlos> anyone will still be able to add suggestions
<carlos> but will not be approved, it's not ideal, but not so bad...
<carlos> in those teams, you could add such warning
<eaqua> great. so I just have to re-create the .pot from the .properties files in english and upload them. this will bootstrap the other languages read-write.
<carlos> and when other team decides to start using Launchpad is a matter of give them the ownership of that team and they will get access to do translations just like you will be doing since first day
<eaqua> I'll also upload at some point the current languages, but these will be read-only.
<carlos> eaqua: well, we still want to get all existing languages imported, even if they are not edited in launchpad
<carlos> sure
<carlos> right
<carlos> then you only need to care about your languages and other new languages appearing due to the use of Launchpad (it's an effect we have seen before, once it's available in Launchpad, you get new translations without even ask for them :-P
<carlos> eaqua: also, we would like to give you the control of the netbeans translation group so you can add there new teams to block when they appear in netbeans
<eaqua> do you know of some other Java-based tool that uses rosetta? I'm not certain msginit is enough as I haven't used .pot / .po files that much (I see them as an intermediary form or .properties :) ).
<carlos> or give them the control of that language to the official teams if they decide to move to Launchpad
<carlos> eaqua: not that I'm aware of... are those .pot files using IDs instead of English strings ?
<eaqua> sounds good. let me first import something so I have a demo for them. then I'll tell the other teams I'll also import their stuff. I don't want to step on any toes there.
<carlos> eaqua: we added something for Firefox support that improves that situation, although is not yet ready for .po file to be used...
<carlos> so you have:
<carlos> msgid "foo-id"
<eaqua> carlos: no, .properties are key=value, where key=english string. these are transformed into .po by msginit.
<carlos> msgstr "lalala"
<carlos> so to see the English string you need something like en.po to compare
<carlos> that's not going to be easy neither with Launchpad or any other .po editor
<carlos> eaqua: although we plan to add something to deal with that soon
<carlos> maybe you prefer to wait until then...
<eaqua> how soon ? should I just wait ?
<carlos> anyway, whatever you do now, will be compatible with our final 'fix'
<carlos> so no need to do any reimport or migration
<carlos> eaqua: I don't know, we don't have it scheduled yet
<carlos> but seems like we will need it too for Ubuntu mobile, so maybe, in next 4-5 months, but don't take that as a promise, as said, we didn't schedule it yet
<eaqua> ok, I'll just start importing things and will see in the future how we migrate.
<carlos> ok
<eaqua> does rosetta have support to translate whole .html files for example ?
<carlos> eaqua: not in a native way
<eaqua> or should I create a fake .po with a really long string.
<carlos> you can use other tools to get a .pot file though
<carlos> eaqua: if it's an xhtml file you can use xml2po -m html
<carlos> eaqua: I need to leave right now
<eaqua> ok, it seems I'll also have to create some scripts.
<eaqua> thanks for the help.
<carlos> you are welcome
<xenru> Hi there
<xenru> I'm adding new project to launchpad
<xenru> and want to add translations 
<xenru> but I can't find how to do it
<xenru> can you help me?
<towolf> hi,for joining beta-testers, do i poke someone, or just wait?
<stdin> could send an email to launchpad-users@lists.canonical.com
<mwhudson> towolf: mrevell is the man you need to get the attention of
<mwhudson> he works uk time
<towolf> mwhudson: thanks
<mpt_> LongPointyStick, +emails
<mpt> carlos, is language-by-language use of Translations (as desired for NetBeans) filed as something that needs implementing? Should it be?
<carlos> mpt: yeah, Danilo raised that feature a while ago
<carlos> to link pofiles or potemplates with persons or teams
<carlos> instead of products or sourcepackages
<mpt> carlos, I mean, does it have a bug number or a blueprint
<carlos> hmm, not sure, let me check
<carlos> mpt: no I think we don't have any bug or blueprint for it
<mpt> ok, I shall report it
<carlos> mpt: sure, thanks
<mpt> carlos, eaqua: reported as bug 164420
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 164420 in rosetta "Let projects choose which languages are translatable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164420
<carlos> mpt: ok, thanks
<ubotu> New bug: #164420 in rosetta "Let projects choose which languages are translatable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164420
<mpt> hmm,
<mpt> Quite often (about once a week, perhaps) someone asks a question about using Launchpad Translations with a particular language
<mpt> And they mark the question as being in that language, when it's not, it's in English
<mpt> Probably not knowing English very well makes it hard for them to understand the meaning of the language choice
<emilian> ok, anyone here I can harass with questions regarding .pot and po files ?
<mpt> emilian, carlos or danilos 
<emilian> my limited knowledge tells me the pot are the templates while the po are the translated files.
<emilian> with msginit -i $file -P I can convert java .properties files to .po files.
<emilian> are the .pot files any different ? can I just rename .po to .pot ?
<carlos> emilian: you are right about what's a template and a translation file
<carlos> pot is a po without translations
<carlos> in theory, you could rename a .po file as .pot
<emilian> but as I start with .properties files I basically have a translations - english.
<carlos> but why do you want to do it?
<emilian> well, I'm not sure if a .po is enough to get translations working for other languages.
<emilian> I assumed you need a .pot for that.
<carlos> the  problem with properties files
<emilian> does rosetta take the keys from .po files and expose them to any translator regardless of the language ?
<carlos> is that they use an id instead of an English string...
<carlos> ok, so I just realised what you mean
<carlos> yeah
<carlos> we plan to add a feature 
<emilian> oh, alrighty then, I guess I'm set :)
<carlos> to use en.po or en_US.po or en_GB.po as the base of strings to show to the users
<carlos> so they know what to translate
<emilian> i just generated and uploaded a whole bunch of en.po files.
<emilian> do I need to re-upload those as ro.po files for example ?
<emilian> (since you see you're just planning this feature).
<carlos> well, you need an empty .po file as the .pot file
<carlos> if en.po has English strings, you shouldn't rename it as ro.po
<emilian> so I need to write some script to clean the en.po file in order to bootstrap any other language ? (ie. make the .pot)
<carlos> emilian: there is a gettext command for that already
<carlos> danilos: do you remember the command to do it?
<danilos> emilian: you can try playing with msgattrib, msgmerge, and msgfilter
<danilos> emilian: though, for generating POT file, you should use xgettext instead
<emilian> xgettext seems to extract strings from source files (?). I already have the strings in java .properties files.
<ubotu> New bug: #164424 in launchpad-answers "Confusing for "Project:" to have "Distribution" and "Project" choices" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164424
<emilian> it seems msgfilter can produce a barebone po which kinda looks like a pot (empty translation strings - ""). I've submitted everything. Let's see how rosetta feels about the files...
<emilian> carlos: if you aren't busy and have the appropriate privileges could you take a look here ( https://translations.launchpad.net/netbeans/+imports ) and approve / reject the uploads. I would like to see the results before I go to sleep :O
<carlos> emilian: sorry, those are a lot of files to approve and is past midnight here..
<emilian> carlos: dang, 1:12 am here :( oh well, I'll check again next week.
<carlos> emilian: you will get email notifications with each import
<emilian> heh, hope they don't end up in the spam again :) thanks for your help and good night !
<carlos> np, good night!
<ubotu> New bug: #164430 in soyuz "PPA takes too long to build packages" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164430
#launchpad 2007-11-22
<jkakar> Do all Launchpad Blog entries get aggregated on Ubuntu Planet... can I remove Launchpad Blog from my reader?
 * Fujitsu wonders if it is a coincidence that most of the projects properly using Launchpad (jokosher, inkscape) are run by Canonical employees.
<Fujitsu> schooltool...
<jkakar> Fujitsu: What do you mean by "properly"?  Zope and Zope 3 use Launchpad, which are projects not run by Canonical employees.
<Fujitsu> Hm, I guess.
<lifeless> Fujitsu: When you say most, did you survey? Or is it just a random figure?
<lifeless> I'd add paramiko to the list of non-canonical using-launchpad, offhand.
<Fujitsu> lifeless: I did not survey, but the ones I know of largely seem to be (I didn't know that paramiko did)
 * Fujitsu looks further.
<lifeless> you can check the 'uses launchpad for XXX' settings
<lifeless> eg. translations or bugs or packaging
<Fujitsu> You can't actually search by them, though, can you?
<lifeless> google probably can :)
<Fujitsu> Haha.
<jamesh> Fujitsu: Inkscape will be using Launchpad for bug tracking soon.  Does that count as properly?
<jamesh> oops.  that's by a canonical employee :)
<Fujitsu> jamesh: Bryce Harringotn.
<Fujitsu> Yes.
<Fujitsu> Er, spelt properly.
<jamesh> Fujitsu: one of the other larger ones is the Silva CMS
<jamesh> (yet another CMS built on top of Zope)
<elmo> Fujitsu: the schooltool people are not Canonical employees
<Fujitsu> elmo: True, but they're quite related.
<elmo> Fujitsu: no, they're really not.  Mark's involved in schooltool, but that's a different thing
<elmo> (maybe not pertinent to your point/argument, but it's an important distinction outside of that)
<jamesh> Fujitsu: https://launchpad.net/moblin is another
<Fujitsu> jamesh: A Google shows quite a number, but I've never heard of most of them.
 * Fujitsu returns to his cave.
<jamesh> and Intel is most definitely a separate company :)
<jkakar> I think something might be wrong with PPAs buildds: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10505500/buildlog_ubuntu-feisty-i386.landscape-client_0.16.0-feisty1-michel2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<jkakar> dh_testdir and lsb_release should definitely be available.  And, prior builds with no significant changes to packaging files were successful.
* mthaddon changed the topic of #launchpad to: Launchpad is going down for maintenance from 02:00 UTC to approx 06:00 UTC - Next developer meeting: Thu 29 Nov 2007, 1400UTC | List: launchpad-users@lists.canonical.com | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad | Help: https://help.launchpad.net | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Join the beta team: https://help.launchpad.net/JoiningLaunchpadBetaTesters
<Hobbsee> jkakar: you're not build-depending on debhelper.
<Hobbsee> jkakar: you're also not build-depending on lsb-release
<Hobbsee> jkakar: therefore, your build will fail.  they're not in build-essential.
<Hobbsee> jkakar: so, it's not the buildd that has the problem - i'm afraid it's your package
<Hobbsee> morning cprov 
<cprov> Hobbsee: hey
<cprov> well, the night will be very boring w/o LP, let me have some sleep, g'night folks
<Hobbsee> cprov-ZzZ: oops, you broke it :)
<Hobbsee> grah!!!!  forgot about the upgrade.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Upgrade Extra Long Edition, too.
<Hobbsee> yup
<jkakar> Hobbsee: Hmm.  I wonder if someone changed something; those Build-Depends are in the code I'm looking at. :)
<Hobbsee> jkakar: they're not in the version that got uploaded to launchpad.  mind pastign your debian/control file somewhere?
<jkakar> Hobbsee: Uh.  Crap.  Somethings going wrong somewhere.  This thing is b0rked.
<jkakar> Hobbsee: Thanks for looking and mentioning that. :)
<Hobbsee> jkakar: no problem.  i thought it was.
<Hobbsee> jkakar: it'd be *awful* odd to get an error like that on a buildd.
<Hobbsee> jkakar: btw, some crazy people do do their packaging entirely without debhelper, so it's not quite mandatory.
<jkakar> Hobbsee: Right.  We use AutoPPA which I wrote to make the developer-side of PPA mostly a single-command deal.
<Hobbsee> jkakar: also, the buildds build for multiple releases - so depending on the lsb-release on the system wouldn't be  ahelp
<jkakar> Hobbsee: It uses a template file to generate the control file; I'm wondering if there's a bug there.
<Hobbsee> ahhh, so that's where you're nick is familiar from
<jkakar> Yeah, I guess.
<Hobbsee> ....why would you need it to write your control file?
<ajmitch> differing build depends on various ubuntu releases
<jkakar> Hobbsee: We need to produce packages for dapper->hardy.
<jkakar> So yeah.
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: anything that does build-depends on the fly makes me shudder.
<jkakar> AutoPPA detects files that end in .autoppa and processes them to generate the final output; so, a debian/control.autoppa will generate debian/control.
<Hobbsee> jkakar: right, yes, different build-depends.  i see.
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: I know, I'm not a big fan either :)
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: it sounds *awfully* like checkinstall, by another name.
<ajmitch> it's not, thankfully
<jkakar> I wish it wasn't necessary.
<ajmitch> since it's only selecting from a predefined set, not generating them magically
<ajmitch> (afaik)
<Hobbsee> oh godo
<ajmitch> I hope that's the case, I can't remember the details :)
<fabbione> morning guys
<ajmitch> hi fabbione 
<fabbione> how is the upgrade coming along?
<Hobbsee> hiya fabbione 
<Hobbsee> fabbione: we're mere people, not LP deities.
<fabbione> Hobbsee: i didn't expect an answer from mere mortals.. i talk to Gods only
<jkakar> LOL
<Hobbsee> hahha
<Hobbsee> excuse us for responding, then :P
<fabbione> Hobbsee: you did ask for it :P
<Hobbsee> hehe
<jkakar> Hobbsee, ajmitch: It's not magical.  It's very explicit.  Lines in the .autoppa file that start with AUTOPPA_INCLUDE(<release,[...]>): are conditionally included, depending on the release AutoPPA is building for.
 * Hobbsee dumps a containers-worth of spiders down fabbione's back
<ajmitch> jkakar: that's what I thought, from when you were working on it for storm
<jkakar> ajmitch: Yep.
<Hobbsee> jkakar: oh right, so it picks the build deps based on what is in each release, and waht's in that file.
 * fabbione eats the spiders as they come out of the container
<jkakar> Hobbsee: Right.  You specify the build deps you want for each release and put them in that file.  Then AutoPPA generates the right output as it iterates through releases to build.
<Hobbsee> ah, okay.  that doesnt sound quite so fragile.
<ajmitch> told you it wasn't as bad as checkinstall :)
<Hobbsee> that evne sounds snae :P
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: i was thinking where you put the general build-deps in, and then it guessed which was in the release, or something
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: i mean, that's not quite as bad as checkinstall either - but still highly fragile.
<ajmitch> or guess build dependencies by analysing debian/rules or configure.*
<Hobbsee> or that
<Hobbsee> sheesh, you trying to send me away by saying all this crack or something?  :P
<jkakar> Hobbsee: I'm pretty happy with AutoPPA from a user perspective.  I basically generate uploads for 5 Ubuntu releases in 2 minutes now and it mostly works.  Obviously something bad has happened here which I will work out, but other than that it's a great improvement over trying to do all that stuff by hand.
 * Hobbsee nods
<jkakar> Hobbsee: If you decide to try it out and have questions feel free to ping.
<Hobbsee> jkakar: i'd be interested in seeing an .autoppa file, i fyou have one handy
<jkakar> Hobbsee: Here's the debian/control.autoppa for Storm: http://rafb.net/p/CsJNjc69.html
<jkakar> Hobbsee: With the following snippet in my ~/.autoppa.conf: http://rafb.net/p/eEP3NS34.html
<jkakar> The 'ppa = jkakar-ppa' is a reference to a PPA configured in ~/.dput.cf
<jkakar> There's one more magical symbol that can be used (anywhere, not just .autoppa files) which is the AUTOPPA_VERSION(<version>) symbol.  It replaces <version>with whatever the current build version is.
<jkakar> Oh. Phew.  Yay.
<jkakar> I forgot to add "hardy" to the AUTOPPA_INCLUDE() symbols. :)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<jkakar> The bug is usually between the keyboard and the chair.  It's nice when that's a Good Thing(tm). ;)
<ajmitch> yay for simple bugs
<jkakar> cprov-ZzZ: Oddly, and I haven't investigated this too closely, the autoppa package (from ppa.launchpad.net/autoppa) does not install (package not found) on gutsy.  I haven't tried on any other release.
<jkakar> cprov-ZzZ: I have looked and verified that the relevant .deb files are present.  Any ideas?
<Hobbsee> jkakar: when did you try to install ti?
<DShepherd> can you guys just ping me to let me know when launchpad is up and running again? thanks
<Hobbsee> DShepherd: read ubuntu-devel@l.u.c
<Hobbsee> DShepherd: oh, /topic's good too
<DShepherd> Hobbsee, ok
<jamesh> DShepherd: this rollout is taking a bit longer than usual due to a redesign of some of the tables used by translations.launchpad.net
<jamesh> (which should improve performance/reduce timeouts)
<baijum> Can anyone update maintenance time here: http://news.launchpad.net/maintenance
<DShepherd> jamesh, ok.. oh well. I guess I can wait.. or just google.. I have a gdm crashing here =)
 * baijum just checked that page and came here to ask why Launchpad is not yet up...then found the IRC topic
<fabbione> guys please let the developers work in quietness instead of asking all the time. it's distracting for them
<jamesh> baijum: I'm just checking if anyone is around who can update the page.
<DShepherd> fabbione, sorry man. didn't mean not to help 
 * DShepherd keeps quiet
<baijum> sorry guys...please continue your work
* mpt changed the topic of #launchpad to: Launchpad is down for maintenance, perhaps another hour or two - Next developer meeting: Thu 29 Nov 2007, 1400UTC | List: launchpad-users@lists.canonical.com | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad | Help: https://help.launchpad.net | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Join the beta team: https://help.launchpad.net/JoiningLaunchpadBetaTesters
<mthaddon> baijum, thx, have updated that page
<baijum> mthaddon, np
* mthaddon changed the topic of #launchpad to: Next developer meeting: Thu 29 Nov 2007, 1400UTC | List: launchpad-users@lists.canonical.com | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad | Help: https://help.launchpad.net | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Join the beta team: https://help.launchpad.net/JoiningLaunchpadBetaTesters
<mpt> yay
<jamesh> yay?
<mpt> yay, as in, Launchpad is back
<carlos> morning
<Hobbsee> dear kde, why must you be a ruddy pain to build.
<Hobbsee> mpt: ping
<Hobbsee> mpt: thanks for hte +editemails link.  when would it be worth filing bugs on the way that page is working (or breaking)?
 * carlos -> lunch
<Hobbsee> lamont: damn you, why do we need hppa?
<jamesh> Hobbsee: look on the bright side.  At least we don't have an amiga port
<Hobbsee> jamesh: *snort*
<Hobbsee> jamesh: yeah well.  there is that
<ubotu> New bug: #164499 in launchpad "+karma page is confusing when all karma has expired" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164499
<PriceChild> I requested my ppa be cleared a little ago so i could upload a different source archive. I was told I had to wait for a cron at 03:00 but several days later it still hasn't been cleared and there's no response :/ https://edge.launchpad.net/~pricechild/+archive
<PriceChild> whoops, https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/17826
<mpt> Hobbsee, I thought you had already :-)
<Hobbsee> mpt: oh, i still need to file those bugs.  but i found another couple of bugs.
<Hobbsee> mpt: was thinking i'd wait till after the rollout, although i guess i'm using edge, so it should be recent
<danilos> carlos: you?
<carlos> yes, me!
<carlos> :-P
<danilos> carlos: a shame, no meeting today :)
<carlos> danilos: there is no meeting this week
<carlos> danilos: X-)
 * Hobbsee ponders an email filter to automatically delete anything assigned to ubuntu-core-dev
<Hobbsee> before you black hole it
<Hobbsee> right, done.
<Hobbsee> saves myself a bit of spam.
<lamont> Hobbsee: hppa?  huh?
<Hobbsee> lamont: it's behind :)
<lamont> it's catching up
<Hobbsee> lamont: walking kde4 thru
<Hobbsee> indeed.
<Hobbsee> because i want it in a couple of days, not next week :P
<lamont> oh.  so you're giving back kde packages, and you want me to bump priority on them??
<lamont> hrm.. gaining about 1%/day on graph2 --> 4 weeks we should be current. :))
<Hobbsee> lamont: nah.  i can do both givebacks and reprio's now.
<lamont> oh.  Hobbsee powerful.
 * lamont bows
<Hobbsee> yup
<Hobbsee>  /nick QueenHobbsee
<Hobbsee> :P
<lamont> and hppa is down to < 2500 packages.  
<lamont> we're gonna have a party when it cracks 2000
<Hobbsee> lamont: oh, classy.  it's segfaulting on build, too
<lamont> yeah.
<lamont> sigsegv or sigbus?
<lamont> sigbus is unaligned load/store, which either means you're being bad, or there's a bug somewhere
<lamont> which could just be previously compiled stuff
<Hobbsee> doesn't say
<lamont> sure it does.
<lamont> log?
<Hobbsee> kdelibs, hardy archive, if you wanted to see
<Hobbsee> don't have hte URL on me
<lamont> kdelibs in hardy built on hppa
<lamont> or do you mean kubuntu-members PPA?
<Hobbsee> oh, hardy *main* archive, sorry
<lamont> which wouldn't be built on hppa. doh
<Hobbsee> it's main archive, unless i specify otherwise :)
<lamont> 4:3.5.8-3ubuntu3 built successfully on hppa...
<Hobbsee> kde4libs, sorry.
<Hobbsee> this numbers-in-packages thing keeps throwing me.
<lamont> ah
<lamont> esp since it delivers kdelibs5-dev.
<lamont> Segmentation fault
<lamont> that's SIGSEGV
<lamont> SIGBUS == 'Bus Error' :-)
<Hobbsee> ah
<Hobbsee> yeah, exactly
<Hobbsee> lamont: any great objection if i shove all the kde stuff thru, now that it should all build?
<Hobbsee> that way hopefully it'llb e done when i wake up, and i can ignore it again.]
 * lamont looks at the _other_ log, assuming it's still there
<lamont> shove away
<lamont> just don't get in the way of main building promptly. :-)
<Hobbsee> heh, of course :)
<lamont> Nov 22 14:29:41 kohnen kernel: [260212.304000] do_page_fault() pid=5322 command='kde4automoc' type=6 address=0x00000003
<lamont> please refrain from branching to NULL function pointers.
<lamont> Nov 22 13:59:03 kohnen kernel: [258374.660000] qmake(32487): unaligned access to 0x003ef284 at ip=0x002f6a7b
<lamont> Nov 22 13:59:03 kohnen kernel: [258374.660000] qmake(32487): unaligned access to 0x003ef264 at ip=0x002f6a2b
<lamont> Nov 22 13:59:03 kohnen kernel: [258374.660000] qmake(32487): unaligned access to 0x003ef264 at ip=0x002f6a2b
<lamont> Nov 22 13:59:03 kohnen kernel: [258374.668000] qmake(32487): unaligned access to 0x003ef284 at ip=0x002f6a7b
<lamont> bad qmake
<lamont> hrm.
<lamont> ubuntu is building on hppa with unaligned loads supported.
<lamont> that's gonna make a mess out of Camm's packages
<lamont> make[1]: Entering directory `/build/buildd/acl2-3.2/books'
<lamont> Mon Nov 19 21:32:18 UTC 2007
<lamont> /bin/sh: time: not found
<lamont> make[1]: *** [all] Error 127
<lamont> yeah for bashisms!
 * lamont takes that discussion to #-motu
<Hobbsee> heh
<lamont> #u-motu went away?
<Hobbsee> no, it's that you've been drinking too much
<lamont> works better with a # in front of it.
<Hobbsee> indeed.
<Hobbsee> some clients just work when you dont have a # in front of it.
<Hobbsee> much simpler
<lamont> and yet so wrong.
<lamont> doko: I take it back.  ubuntu does build hppa with unaligned traps enabled
<lamont> even on the security builds. :-)
<towolf_> mrevell: could you admit me into the launchpad-beta-testers team?
<mrevell> towolf_: Sure, what's your LP username?
<towolf_> mrevell: it's towolf
<mrevell> towolf_: I'll look at it ASAP. I'm in the middle of something at the moment.
<towolf_> mrevell: alright, gracie mille.
<ubotu> New bug: #164530 in rosetta "Translation import queue showing broken links" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164530
<LaserJock> hi mrevell 
<mrevell> hi LaserJock, sorry, was on a phone call
<LaserJock> mrevell: when time are you thinking for a PPA101?
<LaserJock> *what
<mrevell> LaserJock: Late afternoon/early evening UTC I imagine, but obviously your availability would have a great affect on that.
<LaserJock> mrevell: looks like Hobbsee's good from 12:00-16:00UTC
<mrevell> LaserJock: 15.00 UTC would be 10.00 local time for you, right?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> 08.00
<LaserJock> that might work ok for me
<LaserJock> I could do it before going to work
<LaserJock> I would say 15:00 UTC would be the earliest I could go
<LaserJock> I can try getting up earlier but the odds of me accidentally sleeping in and missing it increase ;-)
<mrevell> What's the latest you could do?
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> it'd be nice if it wasn't during my work hours
<LaserJock> as at any moment I might need to be AFK
<LaserJock> 19:00UTC would be my "lunch break"
<LaserJock> and then I'm available from 23:00 UTC on
<LaserJock> oh, wait, not 23:00, but 01:00UTC
<LaserJock> it's bad when I run into the next day
<mrevell> So, would you prefer 15.00 UTC?
<LaserJock> I think that might be the best for everybody
<LaserJock> it's during the day for Europe and eastern US, not as great for Australian time zones though
<ubotu> New bug: #164543 in launchpad "Shouldn't be possible to register two mirrors with two identical URLs by swapping the case in one of them" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164543
<LaserJock> mrevell: do you remember when it was last time?
<mrevell> LaserJock: I'll check
<LaserJock> it'd be good if we rotated some
<mrevell> Ideally I'd like to do a few of these. If next Wednesday is no good for you, we can put it back.
<LaserJock> Wednesday isn't bad actually
<LaserJock> but you shouldn't depend on me much either
<LaserJock> :-)
<mrevell> LaserJock: I expect cprov will lead the session but it'd be handy to have you around for some of the questions that might come up, if you're able.
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> 15:00 UTC sounds good to me
<mrevell> woo
<mrevell> :)
<towolf_> mrevell: may i annoy you again with wanting to become a beta-testers member?
<mrevell> towolf_: Of course. I can check your membership now.
<mrevell> towolf_: Welcome to the team :)
<towolf_> mrevell: thanks much :)
<mrevell> towolf_: np :)
* mrevell changed the topic of #launchpad to: Launchpad unavailable 03.00 - 11.00 UTC 25th Nov for 1.1.11 roll-out | Next developer meeting: Thu 29 Nov 2007, 1400UTC | List: launchpad-users@lists.canonical.com | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad | Help: https://help.launchpad.net | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Join the beta team: https://help.launchpad.net/JoiningLaunchpadBetaTesters
<ubotu> New bug: #164555 in launchpad "Search for Firstname Lastname does not find FirnameLastname" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164555
<blueyed> Hi
<blueyed> Do I have to change bug 141516 from "Fix released" before the SRU nomination appears on the radars?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 141516 in gparted "[MASTER] Gparted crashes when refreshing devices" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/141516
<blueyed> This is _the_ top crasher in gparted, but nobody seems to care (I've pinged #ubuntu-devel twice already)
<Kmos> blueyed: only when it hits the archive
<pochu> blueyed: yes, if you reopen it then it will appear in searches and +bugs lists
<Kmos> archive i mean.. buildd 
<pochu> otherwise it won't, even if a gutsy task is created
<blueyed> pochu: no, if the gutsy task would be there, it appears in the relevant lists, e.g. the ubuntu-sru subscription list.
<blueyed> But as long as the gutsy task is not approved, it gets hidden all around.
<blueyed> I've just pinged pitti, but feel free to confirm it yourself, if you are allowed to.
<pochu> I meant it would be hidden in ubuntu/+source/gparted/+bugs, not sure about the rest...
<pochu> blueyed: I'd do it if I could...
<blueyed> It's getting really frustrating: patches/fixes tend to hang around for a month and nothing happens (this is my experience from the OOo top crasher, where I've also provided/packaged the patch).
<pochu> I don't know why, since creating the gutsy task doesn't mean approving it... so that should be really easy...
<blueyed> yes, _should_. I'm getting bitter, sorry.
<LaserJock> blueyed: you might try emailing ubuntu-devel{-discuss} if nothing seems to get done
<LaserJock> things seem to easily get lost/overlooked
<blueyed> LaserJock: ok, thanks for the hint. This particular bug is "only" two days around with the patch. But the OOo top crasher is already there for ~1 month.
<LaserJock> blueyed: as long as you write with a positive (i.e. Can somebody please have a look at this bug? not You guys suck, wtf?)
<LaserJock> I think the devs generally appreciate problems being broght up up
<blueyed> LaserJock: sure.. :) Therefor I won't write it now..
<blueyed> The main reason why I'm ranting about this here in #launchpad is, that the whole SRU workflow needs to get improved IMHO.
<LaserJock> blueyed: how so?
<blueyed> e.g. that nominations don't get lost. There might be a view with pending nominations for example.
<LaserJock> does it matter much?
<LaserJock> I'm not sure how that exactly is a problem. the nomination should get done in a reasonable time for sure
<LaserJock> but I don't see how it would be a real workflow problem
<blueyed> LaserJock: that's not my experience. IMHO I should not have to poke #ubuntu-devel, pitti or ubuntu-devel ML.
<LaserJock> well sure
<LaserJock> it takes an Ubuntu Driver to accept the nomination
<LaserJock> and there aren't that many Ubuntu Drivers
<LaserJock> that's why perhaps an email might be helpful
<LaserJock> although I see where having the nomination done *before* the Ubuntu SRU team has a look at it would be helpful
<blueyed> Sure, but my whole point is that there should be a view for it in LP / it should appear on the radars of ubuntu-sru, even if it's "Fix released" for hardy.
<blueyed> LaserJock: I've done the nomination right away. But ubuntu-sru won't see it anymore, because it's fix released.
<LaserJock> well, I'm not sure how they do it
<LaserJock> but I suppose so yeah
<LaserJock> but in general I've always been in contact with Ubuntu SRU anyway to discuss the SRU
<blueyed> pitti just approved the nomination, so all is well regarding this - for the moment.. ;)
<LaserJock> well, so your basic complaint is that it takes human interaction to get the SRU nominated?
<pochu> LaserJock: the problem is that until a driver creates the gutsy/feisty... bug task, the bug won't be shown in the ubuntu-sru bug list, so they don't check/approve it (providing the main task is already closed)
<LaserJock> pochu: well, but that seems sane
<LaserJock> as an escalation
<LaserJock> but if it's hard to get a bug nomination accepted then that would be a workflow problem
<pochu> but the problem is that it gets lost unless you poke a driver...
<LaserJock> right, but it's not that there actually a nomination process that is the problem
<LaserJock> but that it's difficult to get the nominations accepted if there is not queue to look at or something
<pochu> LaserJock: right
<LaserJock> ok, so I asked in -devel (if you didn't see it) and there is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+nominations
<LaserJock> so there is a queue
<jkakar> Any PPA hackers around?
<jkakar> I can't install a package that appears to be in my archive.  apt-get reports it as being missing or obsoleted.
<blueyed> LaserJock: yes, that's the view I've asked about. cjwatson has added links to wiki.ubuntu.com/SRU - hopefully this will improve the SRU workflow
<pochu> jkakar: have you updated the cache? apt-get update
<blueyed> jkakar: have you tried "apt-cache madison <package>"?
<jkakar> pochu: Yep.
<blueyed> or "apt-cache policy <package>"?
<jkakar> blueyed: What does 'madison' do?  I've tried 'apt-cache search <package>'.
<jkakar> blueyed: 'apt-cache madison <package>' yield nothing useful.
<blueyed> but apt-cache search displays your package?
<blueyed> Have you added your ppa to your sources.list?
<jkakar> Looks like I have the correct deb lines in my sources.list, too.
<jkakar> blueyed: apt-cache doesn't display the package, no.  But I see the .deb file sitting in my PPA archive.
<blueyed> jkakar: what's the package?
<blueyed> https://edge.launchpad.net/~jkakar/+archive - right?
<jkakar> blueyed: autoppa from https://edge.launchpad.net/~autoppa/+archive.
<blueyed> jkakar: after adding it to my sources.list it does not appear there, too.
<blueyed> neither with "apt-cache search" nor "apt-cache madison/policy"
<jkakar> blueyed: Cool.  Thanks for checking.
<blueyed> wait..
<jkakar> blueyed: And it's weird that the package is here: http://ppa.launchpad.net/autoppa/ubuntu/pool/universe/a/autoppa/
<blueyed> I've added the "hardy" line, but it's released for gutsy..
<jkakar> I'm testing on a gutsy machine.  I haven't produced hardy builds yet.
<jkakar> Hmm.
<blueyed> jkakar: use "deb  http://ppa.launchpad.net/jkakar/ubuntu gutsy main", then it should work.
<jkakar> I wonder if that's related.
<jkakar> blueyed: well, s/jkakar/autoppa/ in that URL, but yes, that's what I'm using and it doesn't work.
<blueyed> yes, it is.. :)
<jkakar> Well, why do you think that?  I'm not running hardy nor using a hardy URL.
 * jkakar files a bug
<blueyed> jkakar: sorry, I've been using jkakar from the beginning, but now have "deb  http://ppa.launchpad.net/autoppa/ubuntu gutsy main" and it shows up.
<blueyed> jkakar: "apt-cache policy autoppa" outputs nothing?
<jkakar> blueyed: Huh, interesting.
<jkakar> blueyed: I've been using universe not main.
<jkakar> from the control file: Section: universe/devel
<jkakar> The weird thing is that I see the same set of packages in both the main and universe parts of the archive.
 * jkakar tries main
<jkakar> blueyed: Thanks, that was it.  s/universe/main/ on that URL in my sources.list and it shows up.
 * jkakar files the *right* bug
<blueyed> jkakar: ok :)
<jkakar> Filed: bug #164571
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 164571 in soyuz "Packages are not published to the right section" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164571
<jkakar> I guess my report is a dupe of #157561.
<jkakar> It seems strangely magical that packages are being auto-moved to main.
<kiko> jkakar, it's a feature, not a bug.
<kiko> components are irrelevant for PPAs.
<kiko> WONTFIX
<ubotu> New bug: #164571 in soyuz "Packages are not published to the right section" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164571
<jkakar> kiko: Fair enough.  Seems like weird behaviour, but whatever.
<kiko> jkakar, the alternative causes problems that are very hard to detect and debug, which raises the barrier to new users. I wished there was a way to make this clearer
<jkakar> kiko: It would be nice if the universe URL worked as well.  ie: publish to whatever the package specifies AND main.
<jkakar> kiko: Though, that's pretty sucky too.  Having one way to get at things is a Good Thing(tm).
<kiko> that would be weird. :)
<jkakar> kiko: It would be nice if packages were not published to the wrong section in the archive.  That would make the "I see it in the universe section of the archive, why can't I install it?" line of thought less plausible. :)
<jkakar> Though I know that will break my apt-mirror script, and likely others, too.
<dennda> Hi. I want to delete a branch that has been assigned to a blueprint (until 2 minutes ago) but I can't
<dennda> The blueprint doesn't exist anymore, but the branch still claims it is assigned to it and therefore (i think) I cannot delete it
<dennda> Any ideas?
<kiko> dennda, file a request as per /topic
<mpt> Goooooooooooooooooood morning Launchpadders!
<kiko> morning mpt 
#launchpad 2007-11-23
<mpt> Hi kiko
<jjesse> question: how do i go about resolving a bzr branch that has divereged if i have already done the bzr merge and bzr push?
<Odd_Bloke> jjesse: Could you be more specific about the branches on which the operations are being performed?
<jjesse> Odd_Bloke:  sure its a branch of the ubuntu-desktop-training-course that i'm working on... i've created my branch and made changes
<jjesse> when i go to push my changes to my branch it says it has divereged and to use bzr merge and bzr push
<jjesse> i ran thebzr merge and have no conflicts
<jjesse> as far as i can tell
<Odd_Bloke> jjesse: You need to commit merges.
<Odd_Bloke> i.e. If you run ``bzr status`` you should have a list of pending merges.
<jjesse> Odd_Bloke: hmm ok let me check, thanks
<jjesse> i think that worked sorry for bothering
<Odd_Bloke> jjesse: No worries. :)
<jjesse> ok another question, looking at: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/110210/ i see a note next to the bug # that "Bug #110210 is not in Ubuntu" what does that mean?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 110210 in hal "Unable to mount external USB hard drives" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/110210
<Odd_Bloke> jjesse: That's because you're accessing it under Ubuntu.  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/hal/+bug/110210 is probably what you want.
<Odd_Bloke> Ack, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/hal/+bug/110210 even.
<jjesse> oh i understand the difference, first time i saw it
<kiko-zzz> jjesse, Odd_Bloke: that does suggest the displayis kind of buggy though.
<kiko-zzz> I mean, the bug /is/ in Ubuntu
<kiko-zzz> and more specifically, in a specific source package
<kiko-zzz> is there a bug filed for that?
<mpt> kiko-zzz, I think so
<mpt> one moment
<mpt> Actually, I don't get the bug on edge
<mpt> oh, wait, I do
 * mpt didn't even notice the first heading :-]
<mpt> And Launchpad doesn't let me search for a phrase such as "is not in"
 * mpt gives up and reports it
<mpt> Ah, I was remembering bug 36286
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 36286 in malone "Don't show "not reported here" message at distro if bug is on a distro package" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/36286 - Assigned to Brad Bollenbach (bradb)
<mpt> reported
<ubotu> New bug: #164621 in malone "Bug "is not in" distribution when it's in a package of that distribution" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164621
<ubotu> New bug: #164624 in launchpad "staging.launchpad.net subhosts have bad certificate" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164624
<Seq> Is anybody able to help me with an upload problem I'm having with dput and my PPA?
<Hobbsee> probably.  more info?
<Seq> I'm uploading a modified kernel source, but it seems to just stop after a while. I have gnome system monitor open, and network activity is decent for a good while
<Seq> it just stops, and dput does not give any output
<Hobbsee> odd.
<Seq> Indeed. when I tried with dupload, it actually gave me an error after doing the same sort of thing (transferring at 60+ kb/s for a while)
<Seq> dupload fatal error: Can't upload linux-source-2.6.22_2.6.22.orig.tar.gz: Opening Binary connection for /~chrisirwin/ubuntu/linux-source-2.6.22_2.6.22.orig.tar.gz
<Seq> but it uploads for about ten minutes or so before that, with constant network activity..
<ubotu> New bug: #164625 in malone "Pressing "Enter" in Summary on first bug-reporting page doesn't work in IE7" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164625
<Hobbsee> i don't know, then.  you just tried this?
<Seq> I've been trying for a few days. I don't get much time to look at it
<Hobbsee> right, so you wouldn't have hit the rollout time
<Hobbsee> which would have stoppe duploads
<Seq> I had initially tried before I knew I had to join the beta team, and then again after being added. I was added last weekend I believe
<Seq> so this is about a week or so I have been unable to do this.
<Seq> I guess I could try from another computer to try and rule out some network problem on this one..
<Seq> Hobbsee: I just started an upload from my other machine. It is going at 88KB/s (Bytes??) according to system monitor. The kernel source package is 54 MB. I'll let you know when it stops
<Hobbsee> ok
<Seq> Is there a capacity limit with the PPA?
<Hobbsee> it will be 1gb, but not until you can delete things.  it's in the ppa quickstart
<Seq> Alright, it looks like it completed. System Monitor's Total for sent data has increased by slightly more than the kernel source size. dput has not continued, however..
<Seq> yeah, it looks like dput is not continuing with the rest of the required files..
<Hobbsee> strange
<ubotu> New bug: #164637 in malone "hpss data_stream from pack repository has deltas out of order, fails with KnitCorrupt exception" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164637
<somerville33> Hi, I renamed a branch while uploading and I blew things up, lol
<jamesh> that does not sound like a laughing matter
<carlos> morning
<somerville33> jamesh: lol
<jamesh> somerville33: if you'd like some help with the issue, you'll need to provide some more information
 * Hobbsee notes that somerville33 should know better, too.
<somerville33> I'm sorry, it is 4:02am and I'm trying to do a billion things at once. I'm just waiting to see if the lock clears up on it's own before I ask for assistance.
<jamesh> somerville33: if it is a bzr lock, you may need to run "bzr break-lock bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~user/project/branch"
<somerville33> Ok, thanks.
<ubotu> New bug: #164646 in launchpad-bazaar ""Product $foo does not exist" error message is wrong" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164646
<somerville33> Does branding really have to be 192x192?
<mrevell> somerville33: Hi - for the larger image, yes.
<somerville33> But it makes my logo look... squished.
<mrevell> somerville33: Could you add white space to make it into a square?
<somerville33> Interesting idea
<somerville33> Bamm, thanks
<ubotu> New bug: #164679 in soyuz "Binary upload archive consistency check became obsolete for source copied across or to PPAs" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164679
<Diije> Plop
<Ubulette> "since we now allow sources to be copied across PPAs and/or to PRIMARY archive". does that mean it's now automatic ?
<kiko> no, it's not automatic, but it can be done using a tool
<Ubulette> so you're not rejecting uploads in ppa if the same tarball is already in main, correct ?
<Ubulette> I mean, an upload with a tarball in it
<kiko> I am pretty sure we don't
<Ubulette> ok, goof
<Ubulette> good
<kiko> we actually require tarballs to be uploaded -- we don't look them up in the primary archive yet.
<kiko> (but we should, there's a bug open etc)
<Ubulette> it will be a problem for me otherwise
 * Hobbsee waves to kik
 * Hobbsee waves to kiko
<Hobbsee> . o O { who switched my tab and enter keys around temporarily? }
<kiko> hey Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> kiko: how were the holidays?
<kiko> Hobbsee, whew.. beautiful. hard to believe how great they were
<Hobbsee> kiko: heh :)
<Hobbsee> kiko: i don't think they exist, myself
<Hobbsee> someday i'll have to be enlightened or something
<kiko> the galapagos? or holidays as a concept?
<Hobbsee> the latter
<Hobbsee> the galapagos...as in the island variety?
<kiko> right
<kiko> I tell you
<kiko> it is very hard to be there and not be on vacation
<Hobbsee> kiko: i don't suppose you'd have any pictures from it?
<kiko> Hobbsee, I have many; I'll post them when I have some more time
<Hobbsee> kiko: cool :)
<LaserRock> kiko: still around?
<kiko> Rock on lazer!
<LaserRock> heh
<ubotu> New bug: #164737 in rosetta "error ID  OOPS-692EA106 " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164737
<rav3> i need some free ubuntu cd's ..how do i get it soon
<kiko> rav3, shipit.ubuntu.com
<pumpichank> quick codehosting question.  we don't support tags for lp hosted branches yet, do we?
<chx> hi http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/drupal/main gives me The requested URL /00/00/0a/af was not found on this server.
<Ttech> Hello, someone was sayipng there is a way that you can mirror a SVN reop with BZR using somehting in Launchpad? How do I do this?
<Ttech> And second part of that question, which is kinda stupid, how do I check if I'm admin?
<Ttech> *not admin but dev
<chx> it broke 43 hours ago :(
<Ttech> ???
<chx> Ttech: neh
<chx> Ttech: I am talking aobut my problem, sorry
<Ttech> np 
<Ttech> Just thought that was to me. :D 
<Ubulette> pumpichank: what do you mean, i've just tested, it works
<Ubulette> pumpichank, i've added two tags to a clone of an existing bzr branch of mine (i had to migrate it 1st), i've pushed it to lp, it's there. I've branched it from somewhere else, still mo problem and my 2 tags are still there.
<pumpichank> Ubulette: i think i need bzr upgrade --dirstate-tags but i'm wondering what will happen when i push that to lp
<chx> anyone could help me please?
<chx> I can't work on Drupal w/o a bzr mirror from here
<Ubulette> pumpichank, if it's with a new name for that branch, it will just work. if it's the same, you may have to push --overwrite, but you'd better test 1st.
<Ttech> anyone on my q?
<pumpichank> Ubulette: thanks.  i'm actually trying bzr upgrade --dirstate-tags lp-branch-url.   i can't tell what it's doing but it hasn't complained yet ;)
<Ttech> Anyone?
<kiko> Ttech, sure
<kiko> Ttech, what SVN repository, and which project?
<chx> me too, please, please! :)
<Ubulette> Ttech, https://help.launchpad.net/VcsImports
<kiko> isn't drupal already available?
<Ttech> Ok, cool. Its a SF repo.
<chx> kiko: please click http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/drupal/main
<chx> kiko: it's not really availbe.
<kiko> Ttech, so far so good. what project?
<chx> kiko: according to the project page, it broke 43 hours ago.
<Ttech> Custom project? Its not a big one, but I need it to sync with BZR
<kiko> how annoying.
<kiko> Ttech, what's the project's name?
<Ttech> Me?
<Ttech> fcm-colab
<kiko> chx, http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/drupal/main/files
<kiko> chx, I think you may be confused.
<kiko> chx, https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/drupal/main\
<kiko> err
<kiko> chx, https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/drupal/main
<chx> kiko: http://drupal.org/project/cvs/3060
<kiko> Ttech, okay. you need to first register the project in launchpad. once you've done that I can guide you to getting the import going.
<Ttech> its reg, but I''am not admin
<kiko> Ttech, what's the URL? launchpad.net/fcm-colab doesn't exist.
<kiko> chx, ah, what you're saying is that the branch is out of date.
<Ttech> one sec
<chx> kiko: the mirroring broke 46 hours ago, yes.
<kiko> chx, mwhudson is the person to ask about that
<kiko> chx, why do you say it broke?
<kiko> Import status:  	Online
<kiko> Last run: 	Success 43 hours ago
<chx> kiko: because i get a 404 http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/drupal/main here.
<kiko> it just seems to not have run since 43h ago
<chx> kiko: I might be confused.
<chx> kiko: ah.
<chx> kiko: and only mwhudson can run the script?
<kiko> chx, mwhudson takes care of imports
<Ttech> kiko: ok, catfacts is admin, I'm  just dev. the project is https://launchpad.net/fcmcolab/
<chx> mwhudson: ping.
<kiko> chx, fwiw bzr branch http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/drupal/main works but indeed gets you a branch missing the recent revisions
<chx> kiko: OK, thanks.
<Ttech> kiko: how do you add a nothe admin to a project on Launchpad?
<kiko> Ttech, so, catfacts has stated that the project uses bzr and that that's the main branch for it, but that branch has nothing published to it.
<chx> kiko: We are between beta3 and beta4 (due Dec 1) with Drupal and I travel and where I am , most ports are filtered, so I can't really do cvs from here and I am hosed w/o the bzr mirror. And http://www.slideshare.net/drumm/maintaining-your-own-branch-of-drupal-core if you check slide 13, that's quite a bit of trouble.
<kiko> Ttech, you create a team, add yourself to it, and make the team the owner of the project.
<Ttech> ok
<catfacts> ok
<Ttech> We need to get the syncing going between the SVN on SF and the BZR on LAunchpad.
<Ttech> So no there are no files on the BZR
<kiko> sure.
<kiko> gotcha.
<kiko> so first things first.
<Ttech> catfacts: get that message?
<kiko> you can create the team, say "FCMColab Maintainers"
<kiko> add both of you to the team
<kiko> and then catfacts can change the owner to point to the team.
<Ttech> ok
<Ttech> on that
<kiko> to create a team go to launchpad.net/people/+newteam
<chx> kiko: is the script you guys use available? I might start my own bzr mirror on some server :(
<kiko> chx, we use launchpad.net/cscvs to do the conversion
<Ttech> Wait? where do go do add a group?
<kiko> sorry
<Ttech> * team
<kiko> chx, we use launchpad.net/launchpad-cscvs to do the conversion
<kiko> to create a team go to launchpad.net/people/+newteam
<kiko> Ttech, as for the SVN import, I can update the branch information for you. what's the SVN URL?
<Ttech> catfacts: SVN url? 
<catfacts> https://fcm-colab.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/fcm-colab
<kiko> okidok.
<imbrandon> where can one request removal of package(s) from a PPA ? is there an official way pre-UI change ?
<kiko> imbrandon, yes, add a question (see /topic)
<imbrandon> kiko: thanks
<kiko> catfacts, I'll need mwhudson to actually make the change in the backend. the backend is slightly voodoo and you need shell access to trigger changes like this, but it should be done over the weekend.
<kiko> catfacts, Ttech: if you want you can also convert the SVN repo using tailor or other tools. here: http://bazaar-vcs.org/BzrMigration
<catfacts> ttech
<catfacts> you said you wanted to keep using sf.net but mrmonday wants launchpad tracking
<catfacts> so we dont want to move the repo but more so mirror it i guess
<chx> kiko: is there any way I can help this in the future? become part of some team? I have a launchpad registration, I believe.
<catfacts> at least that was my impression
<kiko> catfacts, okay. if it's an up to date mirror you need then launchpad is really the way to go.
<kiko> chx, it's not actually possible because IS controls who has access to the engine room and mwhudson and ddaa are the only ones with that clearance
<chx> I see.
<chx> ddaa sounds familiar :)
<catfacts> ok so what do i need to set this up?
<catfacts> and sorry if i respond sloly kiko but im wrinting an essay that is due today for school so yea :P
<kiko> catfacts, no probs. right now you don't need to do anything but we need to wait for ddaa or mwhudson
<catfacts> timeframe? cuz i will need to leave in about half an hour :)
<kiko> catfacts, probably not today.
<catfacts> oh
<catfacts> so i wont wait around then :P
<kiko> :)
<Seq> Hello. I'm trying to use dput to upload a package, but it seems to stop working after uploading the orig source file -- it appears to upload it all, but fails to continue with other files. Has anybody encountered this before?
<Seq> This is to my ppa by the way. I've been trying to upload the package for several days.
<frenchy> Seq:  I'm new to packaging so I probably won't be any help but no one else seems to be answering.  How did you build the package?
<frenchy> Seq: BTW, I do have my PPA working.
<Seq> `debuild -S -sa` so it would be source-only, and include orig source
<Seq> It is a patched kernel. I got the source with apt-get, I applied a patch, appended .cwi1 (my initials and revision) to version with dch, then ran `debuild -S -sa`
<frenchy> Seq: Does the dsc file mention the diff? Once again, I'm new at this.
<frenchy> s/diff/*.diff.gz/
<Seq> yes. It lists the orig.tar.gz, and the diff.gz
<frenchy> Seq: When you say it "fails to continue with other files", do you get an error message?
<Seq> no. I even left it running overnight. Network activity stops after 55 MB (the size of the orig file), but it does not continue to the next file. No error.
<kiko> Seq, that's weird.
<frenchy> Seq: sorry mate, no idea.  What's your LP id?
<kiko> Seq, is it particularly large?
<kiko> Seq, have you tried uploading directly using ftp?
<Seq> frenchy: 55mb orig.tar.gz. It is the kernel source
<ubotu> New bug: #164765 in launchpad-bazaar "can't delete codehosted tags" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164765
<Seq> kiko, no I have not. Do all four files go (.dsc and .changes plus orig and diff)?
<kiko> Seq, yes.
<Seq> frenchy: ~chrisirwin
<frenchy> Seq: That's funny http://ppa.launchpad.net/chrisirwin/ubuntu gives 404.  Are you a member of beta-testers?
<frenchy> Seq: Yes you are.
<Seq> frenchy: I was not when I created the PPA though, but I would think that would either allow me to not upload at all, or it would hang on the first file (it successfully uploads the dsc)
<kiko> Seq, did you rename your user?
<Seq> I just tested dput on my local repository and it uploaded fine (i usually use dupload)
<kiko> Seq, if you did, oh-oh
<Seq> kiko: as in recently, or ever. I have not recently, but I had two accounts at some point when the ubuntu bugzilla migration occurred
<kiko> Seq, ah, that's not meant to be a problem.
<kiko> unless you merged in the wrong direction after creating your PPA. :)
<Seq> well the account merge was over a year ago. I set up the PPA last week
<kiko> but there are no packages published so it's understandable that it's 404ing I think.
<kiko> anyway.
<kiko> Seq, try doing a straight ftp upload.
<Seq> no account changes have occurred since the migration
<Seq> I'm just trying now
<Seq> I'm just going to use plain-old `ftp` from the command line. I've turned 'hash' on, so I should be able to see when it stops
<frenchy> kiko: I thought that the directory was created when I joined beta-testers.  I could be wrong.
<kiko> frenchy, nope.
<Seq> frenchy: this is my first package
<frenchy> Seq: I also was not a member of beta-testers when I created my PPA.
<Seq> first package for my ppa, i should clarify.
<Seq> frenchy: good to hear, that hopefully crosses one thing of the list
<frenchy> Seq: But if it's been uploading the orig.tar.gz (assumption) then where's it going?
<kiko> frenchy, things are not what they seem.
<kiko> frenchy, you upload to a virtual directory
<Seq> I did "cd ~chrisirwin/ubuntu" as that is the path that it indicates to put in .dput.cf in the quickstart guide
<kiko> yep
<kiko> good job.
<frenchy> When I FTP in I get nothing?  ftp ppa.launchpad.net, used michael-lamothe user and cd ~michael-lamothe/ubuntu and nothing is listed.
<kiko> that's right
<frenchy> The files are transferred to librarian.
<kiko> it's a virtual, one-shot directory.
<Seq> Okay, ftp just stopped
<Seq> no more hash marks, and no prompt
<kiko> sounds like a fun problem to debug.
<kiko> does this happen ftping from anywhere?
<Seq> not on my internal network. I have not tried external... Any ideas where I could try to upload a file to?
<Fujitsu> Oh, so after all that, it wasn't actually rolled out? Nice.
 * kiko rolls eyes
<kiko> Seq, hmmm. 
<frenchy> I might turn into a spectator and learn some things from you guys.  Hope you get it solved Seq.
<kiko> Seq, if you have shell access somewhere you could try uploading from there.
<Seq> I don't have shell access anywhere
<kiko> I just want to make sure that it's something with the upload itself and not a networking thingy.
<kiko> hmmm
<kiko> that's not fun
<Seq> I could take my laptop to my work, and try from there
<kiko> the thing is that there are a number of people who have uploaded the kernel before
<kiko> Seq, did you manage to upload the smaller files?
<Seq> kiko: I did mput *.* (only had the neccessary files) and it did the source first
<kiko> yeah. 
<kiko> I'd try uploading the smaller files and then closing the connection
<Seq> i stand corrected. it uploaded the changes, build, dsc, and diff.gz
<kiko> okay.
<kiko> try uploading everything but the orig and then closing the connection.
<kiko> it should fail and you should get emailed.
<Seq> this ftp is still "active" in that it hasnt actually killed or timed out the client. Did you want me to kill it and see if I get a failure?
<kiko> yeah, kill it.
<Seq> I guess i would have to anyway.. nevermind
<Seq> this is interesting:
<Seq> ctrl-c in ftp: 56913972 bytes sent in 1273.92 secs (43.6 kB/s)
<Seq> and from ls: -rw-r--r--  1 chris chris 56913972 2007-07-10 06:03 linux-source-2.6.22_2.6.22.orig.tar.gz
<Seq> so it looks like it actually uploaded the entire file
<kiko> so it hung when closing the upload. weird.
<Seq> I just got a package accepted email, which is the first time I have gotten one. it lists everything but the orig source
<kiko> package acceptede
<kiko> ?
<Seq> Subject: 	[PPA chrisirwin] Accepted: linux-source-2.6.22 2.6.22-14.46.cwi2 (source)
<kiko> well!
<Seq> but it does not list the orig source file in the file list. I would imagine it would encounter a build error relatively immediately...
<Seq> if I look at "all states" for my ppa, it lists no matching builds..
<kiko> you need to wait for it to be published.
<kiko> hang on for a few minutes
<Fujitsu> The Accepted mail will include the .orig.tar.gz if it was mentioned in the .changes... If it's not there, it wasn't necessary.
<Seq> Fujitsu: it is indeed not listed in the changes
<Fujitsu> kiko: Do you recall offhand if PPA fetches .orig.tar.gzs from the primary archive yet?
<Seq> according to the quickstart guide, it does not
<Fujitsu> I thought it was targetted for this release or next. So what you're seeing is fairly strange.
<Seq> it suggests building with `debuild -S -sa` to make a source-only build and include the source file.
<Seq> when I used dput, it tries to upload the .orig.tar.gz as well
<Fujitsu> Er... that's strange.
<Fujitsu> dput looks at the .changes to see which files to upload.
<Seq> ...okay, it is listed... sorry
<Fujitsu> Ah,
<Seq> I didn't search for it, I just scrolled to the bottom
<Fujitsu> That makes more sense.
<Seq> Fujitsu: you entered after I outlined my problem. would you like to see a log of the discussion?
<Fujitsu> Seq: I should have logs elsewhere. I'll look.
<Fujitsu> Seq: Have you tried multiple FTP clients?
<Fujitsu> It seems that it's either a client or poppy problem, if the file transfer is fine...
<Seq> Fujitsu: I've tried dput on two machines, and manually used `ftp` on one of those as well
<Seq> I will stop by my work tomorrow and try from a different network connection as well if I don't figure anything else out tonight
#launchpad 2007-11-24
<Seq> I have to depart. I will read over the channel log and pop back in tomorrow to update based on uploading from elsewhere
<kiko> Fujitsu, no, it doesn't fetch orig's from the primary archive yet AFAIK. and yet..
<kiko> http://ppa.launchpad.net/chrisirwin/ubuntu/
<Ubulette> hm, tiny bug in the ppa page. there's no "1st/Prev/Next/last" anymore in ~user/+archive/
<Seq> kiko: it uploaded everything when I used manual ftp. it still hung after uploading the orig.tar.gz, but it did upload the correct number of bits
<Fujitsu> kiko: Yeah, I noticed that bug (#139619) is targetted for 1.1.12, which is good.
<Seq> when I used dput, it hung after the .orig.tar.gz as well, but it was the second file (not the last) and thus never uploaded enough to build the project at the point it got stuck..
<Fujitsu> Ubulette: Click Search.
<Fujitsu> That's bug... I forget which.
<Fujitsu> Bug #158574
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 158574 in soyuz "+archive doesn't show all packages" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/158574 - Assigned to Celso Providelo (cprov)
<Ubulette> ok, if it's known, i don't need to worry :)
<kiko> Seq, so... it's weird but it did work.
<kiko> http://ppa.launchpad.net/chrisirwin/ubuntu/pool/main/l/linux-source-2.6.22/
<kiko> now we need to wait for the build sequencer to run
<Fujitsu> kiko: It's not that weird. It *was* listed in the .changes.
<kiko> and then for the actual build
<Fujitsu> Just that file seems to do bad things to both ftplib and ftp, or poppy.
<kiko> Fujitsu, well it's weird that it hung and yet still worked. I think our ftp server really makes an effort not to drop files.
<kiko> right :)
<kiko> oh, is it the actual file?
<Fujitsu> Maybe it's just that it's massive.
<kiko> did you try uploading yourself? i won't offer because my uplink is 128kb/s
 * Fujitsu tries.
<kiko> so it'd take a year and a quarter
<Seq> Fujitsu: I'd imagine other people have uploaded kernel source before
<Fujitsu> Mine is 256k, but I have faster links elsewhere, and am used to uploading massive things.
<Fujitsu> Seq: Which file did it upload before the .orig.tar.gz when you dput it?
<Seq> just the .dsc I believe
<kiko> so no .changes. that's terrible.
<kiko> :)
<Fujitsu> Seq: How fast is your upstream?
<Seq> kiko: well it didn't get to the .diff.gz either, so it may have done the changes after
<Fujitsu> .changes is always done last by dput.
<Fujitsu> Because that's what queue dameons process.
<Fujitsu> s/dameons/daemons/
<Fujitsu> Although I suppose poppy is slightly odd and works by connection, rather than looking for the .changes.
<Seq> 800 kbits/s. Gnome System Monitor reports that I was uploading at 80 to 90 KB/s
<kiko> Fujitsu, so, the way poppy works is that it just takes the whole set of files and then trigger process-upload.
<kiko> Fujitsu, now process-upload itself builds a data structure based on what it finds in the .changes file, and in the .dsc file 
<Fujitsu> kiko: That's what I thought. Other queue daemons don't touch anything until they see a .changes, the try to find the associated files.
<kiko> if there's no .changes file then process-upload gets pretty upset
<Fujitsu> s/the/then/
<Fujitsu> Aha.
<kiko> it's put in a directory which is inspectable manually
 * Fujitsu uploads at 500KB/s
<kiko> so we can see what happened to every upload that failed
<kiko> show-off
<Fujitsu> That's good.
<Fujitsu> Heh, it's actually a Canonical ServerPronto machine.
<Seq> Fujitsu: :(
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i hate you.
<Fujitsu> Uploaded fine for me.
<Hobbsee> :)
<Fujitsu> Seq: If you could try it on another 'net connection, it will probably work.
<Fujitsu> That is really odd.
<kiko> Fujitsu, well, hang on. that's a DC-internal machine, is it not?
<Seq> Fujitsu: I don't see why that would make a difference? It _did_ upload the complete file.. I will try anyway
<Fujitsu> kiko: No.
<Fujitsu> ServerPronto != DC
<Fujitsu> Not all of those machines were decomissioned and replaced in the DC.
<Seq> I will also try with a smaller package on my connection, and a different large file on the other connection
<Fujitsu> It might be advisable to watch the upload with wireshark, and see what it tries to do at the end.
<Seq> Fujitsu: When do you expect to be around here again? I've really got to run
<Fujitsu> Seq: I'm normally around here from about 2100 to 1300 UTC, though I'll be gone for a couple of hours in a couple of hours.
<Seq> Fujitsu: I don't expect to be on again until tomorrow.
<kiko> ah.
<Seq> Fujitsu: I'll try to get back on in four or five hours (0500 UTC). I'll drop you a line if I see you.
<Seq> kiko, Fujitsu, frenchy, Hobbsee: thanks!
<Fujitsu> Seq: I'm glad it worked eventually, but it would be nice to work out what actually went wrong.
<Seq> Fujitsu: well I'll try a small and a different large file here, as well as trying this one on another connection. if you have any other ideas, please mention them. I'll check the logs when I return
<Seq> build started, anyway. woohoo.
<frenchy> Seq: don't thank me, I just distracted you 'till the real pros turned up. 
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: so how does one get access to fast uploads?
<Hobbsee> oh, i guess you'd need to be part fo the loco or something
<kiko> heh
<Hobbsee> kiko: i love uploading at puny speeds, can't you tell?  :)
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: At least you don't maintain lrm.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: true. but KDE is also fairly big.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: http://rafb.net/p/vILuff60.html :P
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: don't turn out like these crazy people, when going for DD
<Hobbsee> (that was in #debian-qt-kde)
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Oh dear.
 * Hobbsee idly wonders about work's secret mission
<frenchy> Is it just me or is there something wrong with codebrowse.launchpad.net
<frenchy> ?
<frenchy> Proxy Error The proxy server received an invalid response from an upstream server.
<frenchy> The proxy server could not handle the request GETÂ /~michael-lamothe/me-tv/development/files. Reason: Error reading from remote server
<Hobbsee> drat.  can someone approve my lp-users ML post please?
 * Hobbsee posted it from the wrong address
 * Hobbsee cancels it, writes it again
<kiko> sure.
 * Hobbsee smites her wifi card.
<ubotu> New bug: #164790 in launchpad "Launchpad should run a Bazaar server and advertise bzr:// URLs." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164790
<LaserJock> that's kinda interesting
<frenchy> Hobbsee: I posted a comment about codebrowse.launchpad.net not being available before.  Did you get that?
<Hobbsee> frenchy: yeah, i saw it
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: yeah, i thought so.
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: you konw...seeing as it does for most of the URLs now
<Hobbsee> would be nice to do them all, though
<frenchy> Hobbsee: Do you know if there's something wrong?
<Hobbsee> frenchy: i dont play with bzr much, sorry
<Hobbsee> frenchy: apart from saying something on the remote server is broken...no idea
<frenchy> Hobbsee: Ok, thanks, thanks also for responding to my email about uploading me-tv.
<Hobbsee> no problem
<Seq> hello folks. It looks like that package built fine. Thanks for the help earlier
<Hobbsee> frenchy: no idea when it will happen.  soonish, though.
<Hobbsee> fsvo soon :)
<frenchy> Hooray, it's back online.  Took about 3 hours.
<Hobbsee> next LP task:  invent a stab-via-email protocol.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: I'd like an implementation of SIGECUTE.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: would that be short for SIGELECTROCUTE?
<Hobbsee> > This is already planned.  Not sure how soon it will happen, though.
<Hobbsee> Qtr 3 2009
<Hobbsee> -- Scott http://angrykeyboarder.com
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Right, see man xkill (after installing funny-manpages), IIRC.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Where's this?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: private mail
<Hobbsee> or at least, it appears to be private
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: hehe, there's some nice stuff in this
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: `this'?
<Hobbsee> funny-manpages
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<Fujitsu> Yes.
<Hobbsee> sigh.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Just X again?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: no, gutsy akregator.  X seems to freeze, just sometimes when attempting to delete articles.
<Fujitsu> Nice one.
 * Fujitsu uses Liferea, which doesn't generally get along well with regularly restarts.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: do you delete articles at all?
<chx> Hi. Seems the import script stopped to import Drupal. yesterday I asked but seems there are few people who remedy this -- is there a place where i can file a ticket or something?
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: I do not.
<ubotu> New bug: #164806 in blueprint "Search for "about" doesn't find "About This Computer" blueprint" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164806
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: right, that's probalby how you can use it then
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: we havent crashed yet.  *crosses fingers*
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Famous last words...
<Hobbsee> yeah well.
 * Fujitsu watches his local Liberal MP lose miserably.
<Hobbsee> do you want lib anyway?
<Fujitsu> Ergh, no.
<Hobbsee> so, a good thing :)
<Hobbsee> down with the evil workchoices!  down!
<Fujitsu> We presumed he'd stay around, but it's quite a significant swing in the opposite direction.
<Hobbsee> heh
 * Hobbsee notes that bennelong appears to be an "in doubt" seat :P
<Hobbsee> ("oh, how tragic")
<Fujitsu> Yep.
<Fujitsu> The swing against the Greens there is massive.
<Fujitsu> How devastating it will be to lose Howard.
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Fujitsu> The PM has only lost their seat on one prior occasion, so...
<Hobbsee> what'd they do the last time?
<Fujitsu> Not sure; it was in 1920 or so.
<Hobbsee> ah
 * Hobbsee --> dinner
<stdin> hmm, are the PPA buildd's ok? I've has a package pending for about an hour now and all the PPA buildd's say they are idle
<Fujitsu> stdin: It seems that things have been dead for several hours now.
<stdin> hmm, ok
<imbrandon> hrm ok strange ( to me atleaste ) my PPA says the files are status "deleted" ( as requested ) but they are still in the /pool , is this normal ?
<imbrandon> LP-ID ~imbrandon 
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: When were they deleted?
<imbrandon> few hours ago
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: ^
<Fujitsu> The actual removals are only performed nightly.
<imbrandon> ahh ok
<TABASCO> Hi
<TABASCO> Is this the support channel for launchpad here?
<Hobbsee> yes
<TABASCO> Great
<TABASCO> Well first of all, "Yes, I tried the tutorials and I searched for a solution on help.launchpad" but I still do not know how to manage it
<TABASCO> I want to upload files to my project
<TABASCO> So I created a bazaar branch
<TABASCO> https://code.launchpad.net/geograph/
<TABASCO> I choose "hosted" as the branch type
<TABASCO> I registered a SSH Key and all the stuff 
<TABASCO> But I haven't worked with SSH and Bazaar before, so I do not really understand how to upload something, now.
<pochu> do you want to have a bzr branch, or to upload files such as tarballs?
<TABASCO> I want to upload testfiles
<TABASCO> .blend files
<TABASCO> Because I use the blender interface to develope
<TABASCO> But tarballs would be okay, too.
 * Hobbsee would suggest www.wiki.ubuntu.com/Bzr is rather useful
<Hobbsee> (although it's ubuntu specific, the concepts are the same)
<TABASCO> Well, I use Ubuntu so that would be no problem.
<Hobbsee> er, no www
<TABASCO> But this page doesn't exist
<Hobbsee> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bzr
<TABASCO> Okay..
<Hobbsee> yes, hence the no www. in front
<TABASCO> Okay, I have it
<TABASCO> But generally, it IS possible to upload files to Launchpad, is it?
<Hobbsee> of course
<pochu> TABASCO: yes, and you can upload files directly, but that's used for releases and that stuff...
<Hobbsee> pochu: which he's probably planning to eventually do
<Hobbsee> TABASCO: bzr's like svn or something, concept-wise.  so yes, you can upload a whole bunch of files into a directory
<TABASCO> What I want is uploading .blend files so that I can use them on other computers very easy and share them with other people who want to contribute on my project
<TABASCO> I have to admit that I never used SVN before..
<Hobbsee> sure, but do you understand the concept of svn?
<Hobbsee> like, the fact that it's revision control, so you can upload new versions of some files, change files, etc.
<TABASCO> Well, as far as I know someone is uploading files and if they are updatet I can get these files very easy
<Hobbsee> and can revert if you screw it up, etc
<Hobbsee> right, so read the wiki page, then come back with questions - it's a pretty good guide
<TABASCO> The Ubuntu Wiki or the Wikipedia article
<Hobbsee> ubuntu wiki
<TABASCO> Okay, thank you
<TABASCO> Hobbsee: I worked through the bzr wiki article but the point at "push" doesn't work
<TABASCO> Lot of cryptical outputs and a "please send this report to bazaar@lists.ubuntu.com" and the end
<Hobbsee> TABASCO: then id' suggest sending as much of the backscroll that you can, up to and including that error message, to the address suggested, and see what happens :)
<Hobbsee> also, a pastebin of the same info would be good (pastebin.ca), in case someone can figure it out now
<TABASCO> I already sent a mail
<TABASCO> http://pastebin.ca/795723
<TABASCO> That's it
<Hobbsee> TABASCO: for a start, you wanted bzr push ftp://daniel-rentzsch@bazaar.launchpad.net/~daniel-rentzsch/geograph/examples - and i think you want to change "ftp" with "bzr+ssh"
<Hobbsee> as it's faster
<Hobbsee> and hopefully won't time out on you
<mwhudson> oh yikes, ftp ?
<mwhudson> something got misread there :)
<TABASCO> mwhudson: Well, the wiki said sftp, but this didn't worked
<mwhudson> sftp is much much more likely to work than ftp, i promise :)
<mwhudson> i could take to IS about having ftp get refused, rather than timing out
 * Fujitsu thinks that mwhudson might possibly know what he's doing.
<Fujitsu> s/doing/talking about/
<TABASCO> Well, with bzr+ssh everything worked fine
<TABASCO> Now, how can I delete files?
<mwhudson> TABASCO: great
<mwhudson> TABASCO: files?
<mwhudson> you can delete branches in the web ui
<pochu> bzr remove ?
<mwhudson> files inside your branch, that's a bazaar question
<mwhudson> (but an easy one)
<TABASCO> So I should go to #bazaar?
<TABASCO> And yes, I want to delete files inside my branch
<TABASCO> Respectively delete my branch
<mwhudson> the channel is #bzr
 * mwhudson afk, have fun
<TABASCO> Thank you
<TABASCO> Okay, I got it :)
<TABASCO> I uploaded a file into the branch
<TABASCO> Great - thank you for your help
<TABASCO> Now to delete branches - is it possible to do this from the launchpad?
<kiko> yes
<Hobbsee> morning kiko 
 * Hobbsee just marks them as obsolete / abandoned.  there's a better way to do it?
<kiko> yes
<TABASCO> So how is the better way?
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: The feature only appeared a couple of releases back.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: ahhh.  that's why i've not tried.
<Fujitsu> TABASCO: If you find the branch page on code.launchpad.net/~username/project/branch, there should be a link to delete it.
<TABASCO> Fujitsu: I have a look on it
<chx> mwhudson: hi
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: dude, arent you supposed to have some form of weekend
<Hobbsee> ?
<chx> mwhudson: I am told you are the one who could make the Drupal main branch update again
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: What do you mean?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: havent you been on irc all day or so?
<Fujitsu> For about 15 hours now, yeah. As normal.
<Fujitsu> Though I did vanish for a couple of hours, which is bad.
<Hobbsee> oh.  i thought weekends were supposed to be different.
<Fujitsu> Never!
<TABASCO> Well, I do not really see a button to delete a branch
<Fujitsu> TABASCO: Not in the Actions portlet on the left?
<TABASCO> No, not really.
<TABASCO> I am now on https://code.launchpad.net/~daniel-rentzsch/geograph/examples
<TABASCO> This is the project: https://code.launchpad.net/geograph
<Hobbsee> dear launchpad, please don't timeout.  we were getting along *so* well, when you hadn't timed out in a couple of weeks.
<Hobbsee> bloody murphy.
<TABASCO> :)
<chx> Hobbsee: Is there a place to file a ticket to get Drupal main branch updated again ? chasing mwhudson here is not easy
<TABASCO> I'm getting always troubles when I browse through rosetta
<Hobbsee> chx: no idea, sorry.  i guess a question on the relevant component of launchpad.  kiko-phone might be able to tell you
 * Hobbsee does not work on launchpad
<chx> Hobbsee: ah ok. well kiko-phone told me yestrday that only mwhudson can do this :(
<TABASCO> Does anyone else know how to delete a branch in Launchpad?
<mwhudson> chx: ask a question in the launchpad-bazaar project
<mwhudson> chx: i'm in the uk and work uk hours, i'm not _that_ hard to find
<mwhudson> !weekend
<ubotu> It's a weekend.  Often on weekends, the paid developers, and a lot of the community, may not be around to answer your question.  Please be patient, wait longer than you normally would, or try again during the working week.
<mwhudson> etc
<mwhudson> TABASCO: go to the branch view in the webapp, click "delete this branch"
 * mwhudson afk again
<TABASCO> I really have no idea where to click "delete this branch"
<TABASCO> Am I blind?
<Fujitsu> TABASCO: Should be near the `Subscribe someone else' button.
<TABASCO> Fujitsu: In "Actions" there is "Browse code", "Browse revisions", "Change registrant", "Edit subscription", Subscribe someone else", "View branch associations", "Register merge proposal" and "Link to bug report"...
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, hi :)
<Hobbsee> hey bluekuja!
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, a question...is secure to upload a package to PPA using a key enabled for uploading inside the archive?
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, I mean... changes files are available for download 
 * Hobbsee reads that again, and hopes to parse it the second time.
<Fujitsu> bluekuja: There is a private bug on that.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: did it get fixed though?
<Hobbsee> cprov-away: any idea?
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: I don't know; it's private.
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, that's a great problem actually
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: then i'll ask mithrandir.
<Fujitsu> TABASCO: That is strange. You didn't link it to any bugs or anything?
<TABASCO> Fujitsu: No, I didn't
<Fujitsu> bluekuja: It is a significant risk at the moment, unless it has been fixed.
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: hopefully i'll find out in a couple of days.  
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, great :)
<TABASCO> I am very new to the Launchpad processes
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: currently, you would have to only upload to ppa what you're happy to go to the ubuntu archive.  or use 2 keys.
<bluekuja> Fujitsu, yep, in fact anyone can get the package and push it into the archive
<Fujitsu> bluekuja: Correct, but most people hopefully don't know that.
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, using 2 keys won't solve the issue
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, as far as PPA uses the same key to upload to the archive
<Fujitsu> bluekuja: Right, you'd need to use a separate LP account.
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: oh, you'd also need 2 LP accounts.
<Hobbsee> gotcha.
<bluekuja> Fujitsu, exactly
 * Hobbsee only uploads to ppa as a testing ground, on that basis.
<Hobbsee> not worth having people compromise my reputation for uploading sane stuff, when sending random crack that was supposed to go to the ppa into the main archive.
<bluekuja> it would be nice to have a division between PPA keys and Archive keys
<Fujitsu> bluekuja: Setting key permissions, right.
<bluekuja> like two different keyrings
<Hobbsee> actually...
<Hobbsee> we can check if it's fixed or not
<bluekuja> it would fix the issue definitely
<TABASCO> Fujitsu: And here https://code.launchpad.net/geograph/ I am only able to register a new branch
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, yep^^
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: True.
<Fujitsu> TABASCO: You probably want to bug mwhudson about it, but he is gone
<TABASCO> Fujitsu: Yes.. well I will ask him later. It is not that important, now.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: bluekuja no, it's not fixed.
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, damn :/
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Terrific.
 * Fujitsu uploads crack to main.
<bluekuja> lol
 * Hobbsee beats Fujitsu
<TABASCO> Do you know how to edit the timeline? Because at the moment he only shows me "trunk Current developement focus"
<Fujitsu> TABASCO: You need to add further release series.
 * Fujitsu is beaten.
<bluekuja> Fujitsu, Hobbsee: we are lucky that not a lot of ppl know that
<TABASCO> ..er.. what?
 * Hobbsee hopes no one feels vindictive and uploads that k3b to main.
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: yeah well.  it cant be that long before someone else figures it out
<bluekuja> yep....true
<TABASCO> I think I stay with this status now - I will come back later :)
 * Hobbsee would assume it just gets fixed with a small amount of sed'ery
<Hobbsee> odd, gpg doesnt seem to have a way to *unsign* things.
<kiko-phone> chx, you can file tickets, yes -- see /topic
<kiko-phone> did someone else ask me something?
<kiko-phone> Hobbsee, you mean stripping signatures?
<Hobbsee> kiko: yes
<Fujitsu> Hey kiko.
<kiko> hey Fujitsu 
<jamesh> hi kiko
<Hobbsee> kiko: tbh, i dont understand why it's been fixed yet.  it's been filed for at least a couple of weeks :\
<Hobbsee> (and has an easy solution)
<kiko> Hobbsee, what are you talking about?
<kiko> jamesh!
<jamesh> we've finally gotten rid of John Howard
<Hobbsee> kiko: ah, you don't know the ppa security bug?
<kiko> well that took some time
<Hobbsee> jamesh: ROCK ON!
<Fujitsu> jamesh: Yep
<kiko> Hobbsee, it's not a true security bug. it's only mailed out to the uploader himself.
<Fujitsu> I liked Costello's speech.
<Hobbsee> kiko: incorrect.  it's actually on https://edge.launchpad.net/~hobbsee/+archive too
<kiko> Hobbsee, that will be fixed with the rollout.
<Hobbsee> kiko: see the "changes" section of each of those
<Fujitsu> Every second word was `er'
<kiko> yes.
<Hobbsee> ah, good.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: did you know that we get people pretending to be others, in ubuntu?  (on revu, in particular?)
<kiko> it's kind of a pity that this needed to be done, but it's kinda hard to solve the problem the right way.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: I've seen a couple of instances of it, yes.
<Fujitsu> Using odd names in changelogs and the like.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: not even that.  changed nothing, just resigned and uploaded
<Fujitsu> Oh, even better.
<Hobbsee> wouldn't have caught it, except that they uploaded an i386.changes...
<Hobbsee> well, i'm assuming they changed nothing.
<Hobbsee> changelog was the same
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: made bluekuja get an unfortunate roasting, before i thought to check the sig, anyway.  poor bluekuja 
 * Fujitsu remembers that.
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, lol, are you talking about that REVU issue?
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: yeah
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, that guy was simply crazy....he just took my package from the archive, resigned and uploaded with binaries as well :/
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: has he attempted any other crack?
<Fujitsu> Did you get a chance to roast said other guy?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i didn't, actually.
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, actually he said "I'm really really sorry" and he promised to talk with you
<bluekuja> as far as you pinged me about that on -motu
 * Hobbsee tries to remember
<mwhudson> TABASCO: oh, it's because the branch has a subscriber
<bluekuja> Fujitsu, yes, I was a bit angry with him
<mwhudson> TABASCO: unusually for launchpad, this is actually explained in the help tab
<bluekuja> Fujitsu, and he was keeping hiding
<bluekuja> without talking to me
<bluekuja> e.g not answering to pms and so on
<Fujitsu> mwhudson: Ah, never thought to look there, sorry.
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, did he talk with you?
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: not to my knowledge. but without a nick, i may well have forgotten.
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, ember was the nick, I guess
 * Hobbsee gets lots of random people poking her about random things that she doesn't know about, where tehy expect her to
<Hobbsee> nope.  no backlog of it
<bluekuja> damn him then
 * Hobbsee wonders if LP has the capability of blacklisting a person from a certain team
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: well, i'll just blast him for the next piece of crack he does.  *shrug*
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, agreed
<Hobbsee> speaking of which...
 * Hobbsee looks at revu, to see who's next uploaded crack
<TABASCO> So thank you for your help - see you later 
 * Hobbsee hopes revu has zsh.
 * Fujitsu ponders going to bed.
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, lol
<cprov-away> Hobbsee: it is kind of  problem right now, but it won't be within 12 hours (LP 1.1.11 goes out).
<Hobbsee> dealt with busybox.  removed.  ooh, another one to blast.
<Hobbsee> Changed-By: LI Daobing <lidaobing@gmail.com>
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, which package?
<Hobbsee> right, who's up for @larting, for not reading any of the documentation.
<Hobbsee>  yac163 (0.3.0-1) unstable; urgency=low
<Hobbsee> cprov-lunch: great, thanks :)
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, true, just check the key and archive that
<cprov-lunch> Hobbsee: you are welcome. Btw, we have to talk at some point during the weekend to sort some didactic material I have for the next PPA 101/classroom. I will email you, no worries. KTHXBYE.
<Hobbsee> cprov-lunch: great.  looking forward to it!
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: any idea why we're losing source.changes file off revu, but keepign the other files?
<Hobbsee> it's not in rejected either
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Maybe somebody has already cleared rejected?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: it'd be odd that they dont clear hte rest of the source, though
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Right, but you never know.
 * Fujitsu checks the code.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: true dat.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: I don't see how it could delete the .changes.
<Hobbsee> Changed-By: Maksim Surkiz <m.surkiz@gmail.com>
<Fujitsu> Maybe the uploader just didn't upload the .changes.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: it doesn't, it's manual removal
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: yeah, but how would it *get* there?
<Hobbsee> oh, i guess if you used manual ftp or something
<Fujitsu> Right. Or killed the dput.
<Hobbsee> dput will barf, iirc.
<Hobbsee> true, true
<Hobbsee> id' not thought of that
 * Hobbsee smashes something.  don't move my options, launchpad!
 * Hobbsee pokes revu furtively.  please don't fall over.
<frenchy> Hi All, if I've uploaded a version of my app to my PPA for hardy and now I want to upload one for gutsy, is there some way I can do this?  I keep getting rejected even though I'm using the same orig.tar.gz.
<Fujitsu> frenchy: The same .orig.tar.gz shouldn't be uploaded more than once; try building without -sa.
<frenchy> Fujitsu: Thanks for the answer.  But will my PPA allow unsigned code?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: same version number for hardy & gutsy problem.
<Hobbsee> frenchy: no.
<Fujitsu> frenchy: Wait, what is the exact error?
<frenchy> Ok, I got a different error message this time,
<frenchy> Rejected:
<frenchy> Signer has no upload rights at all to this distribution.
<frenchy> Not permitted to upload to the RELEASE pocket in a series in the 'CURRENT' state.
<Fujitsu> frenchy: Don't upload to upload.ubuntu.com
<Fujitsu> Make sure you're using the correct dput target.
<frenchy> Shit!!!
<frenchy> Sorry!
<frenchy> Might set ppa as the default ... I'm such a dumbass.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i wonder how hard it would be to change those mails to be clearer.  i wonder where they're set.
<PriceChild> Hey, a week or so ago I requested my ppa be cleared so I could upload new orig.tar.gzs etc. It was half done immediately, then I was informed I'd have to wait for a daily cron at 03:00... It didn't happen and no-one is answering my question - https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/17826 Any chance someone could help? Pricey
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Deep in Soyuz's guts, I presume.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i wonder if mrevell would fix it, if given some words..
<Fujitsu> cprov-lunch: ^^ (PriceChild's removals)
<PriceChild> Thanks Fujitsu.
<frenchy> Ok ... after that little faux pas we're back to  ....
<frenchy> Rejected:
<frenchy> MD5 sum of uploaded file does not match existing file in archive
<Fujitsu> frenchy: To which file does it refer?
<frenchy> Files specified in DSC are broken or missing, skipping package unpack verification.
<Fujitsu> frenchy: Before that md5sum line it should mention the .orig.tar.gz, .diff.gz or .dsc.
<frenchy> Â e5c414770d11bcf2c3a7cf58eed7f01c 795 graphics optional me-tv_0.4.5-0ubuntu1.dsc
<frenchy> Â 484b401d6f757313249476ab1fa5cddb 498497 graphics optional me-tv_0.4.5.orig.tar.gz
<frenchy> Â 3f7e1c12e0d93f58c4b4fb98ff255236 27067 graphics optional me-tv_0.4.5-0ubuntu1.diff.gz
<Fujitsu> frenchy: What's your Launchpad username?
<frenchy> michael-lamothe
<Hobbsee> frenchy: this is the same issue as what was on lp-users
<Hobbsee> Have you perhaps accidentally changed the .orig.tar.gz file in some
<Hobbsee> way? If the md5sum of the .orig.tar.gz of your new upload (seen in the
<Hobbsee> .dsc and .changes file) is not the same as for the one already in the
<Hobbsee> PPA I think you will get that error.
<Fujitsu> frenchy: Right, you need to increment the version number.
<Fujitsu> And not build with -sa.
<Hobbsee> or at least, i think it is
<Fujitsu> Soyuz should really give version-ratchet errors before checking MD5sums, but apparently not.
<frenchy> Hobbsee: I'm quite sure (but not 100%) that it is the same file based on the email you sent.
<frenchy> Because I started storing it.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i've missed the part of whyyou're saying to increment the build #, but nto to build with -sa
<Hobbsee> in particular, the latter half
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: 0.4.5-0ubuntu1 already exists in the PPA.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: ah.
<Fujitsu> It should be -0ubuntu2 (although it should probably have a ~ppa1 or sso attached), and needs to not have the .orig.tar.gz attached.
<Hobbsee> yup, i see.
<Hobbsee> this is what you get for not checking the LP page before speaking.
<frenchy> Fujitsu: I was hoping not to have to increment the version number because the orig.tar.gz hasn't changed.  Or do you just mean the package version 0ubuntu2/
<Fujitsu> The next would be 0.4.5-0ubuntu2, 0.4.5-0ubuntu3, etc.
<frenchy> Sorry, just read that.
<stdin> you can also just add ~gutsy1 to the end to get it to build for another release
<Fujitsu> If that is this use case, that would probably be a better idea.
<Hobbsee> stdin: not with the current version # in there.  0ubuntu1~gutsy1 will be lower than what's already there
<stdin> Hobbsee: doesn't matter as long as it's in a different release (afaik)
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: IIRC, Soyuz doesn't version-ratchet at all, or at least not between distroseries.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i'm sure that got fixed.  i remember cheering.  between distroseries, correct.
<Hobbsee> oh, the starting version was hardy, not gutsy.  gotcha.  <sigh, check the page next time>
<frenchy> yep
<frenchy> I'm also on #ubuntu-motu doing my best cheerleader dance.
<frenchy> Trying to get it into Hardy that is ... hence the tangled mess I'm in.
<Hobbsee> heya mrevell!
<mrevell> hey Hobbsee :) How's Australia under Paul Rudd?
<Fujitsu> mrevell: Keven Rudd?
<Fujitsu> *Kevin
<gmb> That would be Kevin...
<Fujitsu> Bah.
<mrevell> Damn you all :)
 * Hobbsee idly wonders when we finally get remove
<frenchy> Thank god he wasn't here when I was uploading to Ubuntu.  He'd kick my ass.
<Hobbsee> mrevell: he made a nice speech, so far.  *shrug*
 * Hobbsee did her good voting duty
<Fujitsu> Costello's speech was mostly `er's, though Howard's was admirable.
<Hobbsee> mrevell: looking forward to being rid of workchoices, and other IR crap.
<mrevell> Yeah, I watched Howards' speech. Seemed like a good way to gout.
<mrevell> s/gout/go out
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Oh, but now we're ruled by Evil Union BossesÂ®
<mrevell> Hobbsee: workchoices? IR crap?
<Hobbsee> mrevell: some highly unpopular stuff that howard shoved in over a year ago.
<Fujitsu> mrevell: See Wikipedia's WorkChoices article.
<mrevell> I'll take a look, at some point :)
<Fujitsu> The most evil and thorough industrial relations reforms in a long time.
<frenchy> Fujitsu: So I still don't get why no -sa.  Won't LP reject?
<Fujitsu> frenchy: The .orig.tar.gz is only permitted to be uploaded once.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: erm.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: it's permitted to upload again, as long as the new tarball has the same md5sum as the previous, iirc.
<Hobbsee> unless it's changed recently -  i always used to use -sa
<Hobbsee> frenchy: it's basically because you don't want to upload big packages more than you have to.  and if it's already in the ppa, with the correct sum, it'll just use that.
<stdin> The ^same .orig.tar.gz is only permitted to be uploaded once.   :)
<frenchy> I'll MD5 it and checkk ... Oh stuff that, I'll just download it.
<frenchy> That'll sort it out.
<Hobbsee> frenchy: it doesnt matter for little stuff...but if you're uploading a 100mb tarball, you *don't* want to upload that more times than you have to.
<Hobbsee> especially if you're australian
<frenchy> Hobbsee: Fujitsu: But what's that got to do with -sa?  I'm confused.  -sa just signs right?
<frenchy> Checking ...
<Fujitsu> frenchy: No, -sa is `source all' or so.
<stdin> debuild always signs
<Fujitsu> stdin: Unless you -us -uc
<Hobbsee> no, -sa is not signing, neither is -S.  contrary to what people on crack tell you.
<frenchy> Sorry .... my bad.
<stdin> Fujitsu: was just about to say "* by default" 
 * Hobbsee wonders if she's going to get to do another "REVERT CRACK" commit message on the lp docs.
<frenchy> Woo hoo accepted ... thanks lots.  The only issue is that hardy and gutsy have different revision numbers.  Is there a better way to do what I've done so this doesn't happen?  I've read that AutoPPA might be what I'm looking for.
<frenchy> Hobbsee:  why don't I want to upload large files if I'm Australian?  Is that 'cause of the awesome, super-quick, you-beaut broadband infrastructure we've got here in Australia?
<Hobbsee> frenchy: 'xactly.
<welterde> hi
<tristanb> Hi guys
<tristanb> how long should it take between requesting to download translations and being sent an e-mail?
<LaserJock> tristanb: hmm, any time I've requested one it's been pretty quick
<tristanb> LaserJock: Okay, I'll try requesting it again in case the first one got lost or something. 
<tristanb> (I don't understand why I have to request it rather than just clicking on a download link, but...)
<LaserJock> cause it has to make it I guess
<LaserJock> it builds a tarball
<LaserJock> but yeah, I thought that was kinda wierd at first too
<mpt> Gooooooooooooooooood morning Launchpadders!
<LaserJock> hi mpt!
<LaserJock> oh, I have a possible UI bug for you
<LaserJock> mpt: I'm having problems with the +nominations page with my laptop
<LaserJock> mpt: it's only 1024x768 and the "Accept" "Deny" "No Change" radio buttons end up in two rows
<LaserJock> and I have a hard time figuring out what goes with what
 * Fujitsu always thought that interface was a bit iffy.
<mpt> LaserJock, this is probably a page I don't have access to, so I'll need a screenshot :-)
<mpt> LongPointyStick, did you report a bug (or find a bug report) about making the soyuz rejection message clearer?
<Fujitsu> mpt: She was talking to mrevell and co. about it, but I'm not sure what exactly came of it.
<mpt> LaserJock?
<LaserJock> mpt: sorry was afk
<StevenHarperUK> How long does a translation po take to get processed? Mine has been queued for ages https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/easycrypt/trunk/+imports
<LaserJock> mpt_: http://laserjock.us/files/LP_nomination_bug.png
#launchpad 2007-11-25
<mpt_> LaserJock, ewww
<LaserJock> mpt_: yeah, that's kinda what I thought
<LaserJock> mpt_: want me to file a bug?
<LaserJock> or do you know of an existing one?
<mpt_> LaserJock, just reported it
<LaserJock> mpt_: ok, thanks
 * Fujitsu notes that they appear similarly badly here.
<Fujitsu> (Epiphany too)
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: what resolution?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: 1280x800.
<mpt> As long as that page includes a bug with the summary "systemsettings doesn't load Display. Disk and Filesystems control module", Gecko will give the "Summary" column as much width as it can, to the detriment of the radio buttons
<Fujitsu> Same as Firefox too.
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<Fujitsu> I guess that makes sense.
<ubotu> New bug: #164936 in malone "Radio button alignment is awful on nominations review page (+nominations)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164936
<LaserJock> ahh
<LaserJock> well, I went through all 5 pages of gutsy and it's the same so I'm guessing you're going to always to have a long summary
<alecwh> I'm not sure about the timezones and how it applies to my timezone, so, how many hours until launchpad is back up?
<LaserJock> 5 hrs or so
<alecwh> =(
<alecwh> mmk. Thanks LaserJock.
<LaserJock> np
<alecwh> Is there any way to access brands (images) for certain projects? I'm in desperate need... =P
<LaserJock> nope
<alecwh> ok.
<LaserJock> oh wait
<LaserJock> how old would it be?
<LaserJock> staging.launchpad.net might work for you
<alecwh> 15 days or later? It's in the Google Cache (the page, not the images)
<alecwh> i'll try
<alecwh> https://staging.launchpad.net/phpns
<alecwh> I don't see images though.
<LaserJock> hmm, no, doesn't look like it
<alecwh> too bad, I'll just have to wait. thanks again.
<Fujitsu> Yeah, librarian is down with the rest of production.
<LaserJock> ah, right
<thegodfather> hi guys
<thegodfather> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10502720/buildlog_ubuntu-hardy-lpia.ocfs2-tools_1.3.9-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<thegodfather> i am getting a "Bad Gateway" response
<thegodfather> oh nevermind :)
* mpt_ changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net/ | Next developer meeting: Thu 29 Nov 2007, 1400UTC | List: launchpad-users@lists.canonical.com | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad | Help: https://help.launchpad.net | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Join the beta team: https://help.launchpad.net/JoiningLaunchpadBetaTesters
<Lure> when is LP expected to come back?
<Hobbsee> ...it's back
<Lure> Hobbsee: it was not couple of minutes back
<Lure> or edge redirect did not work
<Hobbsee> Lure: it appears to be there, at least in parts
<Lure> Hobbsee: it works for me now
<Hobbsee> cool
<Kmos> cool, it's back
<frenchy> Is there some way to kick off the PPA builds again?  It says that it's built my latest but the pool is missing some files.
<Fujitsu> frenchy: If it has successfully built, it is probably just yet to be published. Wait an hour or so and look again.
<frenchy> ok
<jamesh> frenchy: things are still being brought back up after the upgrade
<frenchy> jamesh: Fujitsu: Oh sure, I understand that things aren't going to properly working yet as things start up.  But I think that my build got half cut off ... it says that it's published.  Will it do it again automatically?
<frenchy> *to be 
<jamesh> frenchy: what build?
<frenchy> jamesh: PPA build, are you asking for the package?
<jamesh> yes.  The URL for the build
<frenchy> https://edge.launchpad.net/%7Emichael-lamothe/+archive
<frenchy> jamesh: Is that the one you want?
<jamesh> https://edge.launchpad.net/~michael-lamothe/+archive/+build/455033 <- there is a build record for it, so it might just be a case of waiting for the next publishing run (as Fujitsu said)
<frenchy> jamesh: Thanks for looking into that.  I'll wait 'till tomorrow.
<Fujitsu> frenchy: That will be it; it was built very shortly before it was all taken down, so publisher won't have run since.
<Fujitsu> ... except perhaps for the one a minute ago, if it has been started yet.
<frenchy> Fujitsu: So what does a status of Published mean?  "Source published" or "Build complete and binary packages published"?
<JenFraggle> getting nothing but oops when trying to translate
<Fujitsu> frenchy: The table on +archive refers solely to sources.
<Fujitsu> (other than the file listings, which can be used to work out if the binaries are published too)
<frenchy> Fujitsu: Nice, thanks for the answer.
<Fujitsu> frenchy: Bug #161245
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 161245 in soyuz "ppa archive page should not report package as published until build is successful" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/161245
<frenchy> Thanks both of you ... I'll 'ave a dekko.
<JenFraggle> gone offline again
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: it's patched-up-but-they're-calling-it-a-workaround-fixed.
<Fujitsu> cprov: Around?
<cprov> Fujitsu: yup
<Fujitsu> cprov: May I PM?
<cprov> ?
<Fujitsu> cprov: I am requesting permission to initiate a PM with you, for a reason which probably shouldn't be disclosed here.
<cprov> Fujitsu: sure
<Hobbsee> kiko: we've got a rogue spammer.  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bug/51991/comments/71
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 51991 in xorg "Xorg process freezes, uses 100% of CPU. Can be killed by remote terminal." [Critical,Confirmed]  - Assigned to Bryce Harrington (bryceharrington)
<kiko> Hobbsee, gar.
<Hobbsee> kiko: yeah...
<kiko> how annoying.
<kiko> Hobbsee, I'm not even sure what to do in this case.
<Hobbsee> kiko: well, it's an abuse of the bugtracker.
<Hobbsee> it's not the right way to go about raising the issue
<kiko> this is one of the few cases where I think physical violence would be appropriate
<Hobbsee> yeah well.
<mwhudson> ~ubuntu-hitmen
<kiko> how far has be spammed?
<Hobbsee> kiko: based on how he will continue to spam launchpad.
 * Hobbsee could just mark the bloody thing as critical anyway, then ignore it :P
<kiko> I can't actually deactivate his account though.
<kiko> I'll write to him.
<Hobbsee> why not?
<kiko> no privs.
<Hobbsee> oh.  arent you a LP admin?
<kiko> I am, but LP admins can't disable accounts. Only IS can.
<Hobbsee> ahhh....
<kiko> wrote to him
 * thegodfather delegates some extra powers to his consigliere
<kiko> I hope he will stop 
<thegodfather> kiko: do you need me to ship a dead horse head?
<thegodfather> (or two..)
<kiko> I'd ask santa clause for 5 minutes in a boxing ring with him if I hadn't already asked for 5 minutes with the president.
<kiko> santa clause is such a freudian
<thegodfather> ahah
 * thegodfather goes for a little walk
<thegodfather> later
<JenFraggle> are the translations supposed to be broken or should they  be up now?  still can't get anything but oops
<bluekuja> kiko, there?
<kiko> hey bluekuja 
<kiko> I'm very busy today though :-/
<bluekuja> kiko, don't worry, just a fast question... is the PPA security bug fixed now?
<kiko> bluekuja, should be.
<bluekuja> kiko, great then :)
<Ubulette> "Please use the Homepage header in debian/control, rather than setting it in the description ". where is that described ? can't find it in the debian policy..
<Ubulette> oops
<Ubulette> bad channel
<pochu> Ubulette: it was recently added to dpkg
<pochu> I don't think the policy has already been updated ;)
<Ubulette> how packagers are supposed to know then ?
<Ubulette> is it just an URL ? "Homepage: http://blabla" ?
<pochu> yes
<pochu> Ubulette: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2007/11/msg00006.html
<Ubulette> thx
<Ubulette> oh, Vcs-* too
<Ubulette> damn, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BzrMaintainerHowto needs to be updated then
<pochu> Ubulette: but Ubuntu's dpkg haven't merged yet though, so it doesn't support it.
<pochu> Although it will just throw a warning, so no worries ;)
<Ubulette> i've been asked to change both in a package I've pushed to REVU
<pochu> Yeah, so when dpkg is merged it will be already there
<Ubulette> dpkg-gencontrol: warning: unknown information field 'C Homepage' in input data in general section of control info file
<Ubulette> dpkg-gencontrol: warning: unknown information field 'C Vcs-Bzr' in input data in general section of control info file
<Ubulette> pochu: indeed :) ^^
<LucidFox> How do I remove packages from PPA?
<jelmer> LucidFox: afaik you can't yet
<LucidFox> then what do I do when I run out of space?
<pochu> Ubulette: but you can safely ignore those :-)
<Ubulette> sure
<lamont> cprov-away: palmer was throwing exceptions looking for 'buildlog' in its cache.  I cleaned it up and restarted it... will check it in a little bit to make sure it's happy
 * lamont ponders the new +builds page, and wonders just what the sort order is.
<lamont> cprov-away: palmer seems happy now, fwiw
<RainCT> Hi
<RainCT> why does Launchpad gunzip .tar.gz files I upload to the downloads section of a project?
<RainCT> https://edge.launchpad.net/freevial/gresca/1.0
<RainCT> I uploaded that one three times, and the file gets updated (I changed some of the contents and the changes are there when I download it) but the downloaded file is only a tar :S
<LaserJock> weird
<ubotu> New bug: #165041 in soyuz "Please allow manually marking packages 'failed'" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/165041
<ausimage> Hey gotta question how did make someone and admin on a team?
<ausimage> ahh found it .... :/
<ausimage> Anyone available???
<LaserJock> for what?
<ausimage> We are having trouble making someone an admin
<ausimage> ubuntu-newyork....
<ausimage> I accidently dropped my membership which had admin status....
<LaserJock> I think the owner needs to do that
<ausimage> ahhh the owner is no longer :S
<LaserJock> then you need to get ahold of LP admins
<ausimage> OK... which are they?
<LaserJock> and it should still be the weekend for them so I'm not sure if you'd get anything until Monday
<LaserJock> kiko would be able to probably help
<LaserJock> not sure if mrevell has those powers
<mwhudson> ausimage: if you don't get a response now, ask a question in the launchpad project
<ausimage> ah kiko
<ausimage> thanks...
<cbx33> why am I getting unsupported protocol for url when I try to push my initial import to launchpad?
<cbx33> bzr+ssh://username@bazaar.launchpad.net/~username/product/branch
<cbx33> I don't need to create it first do I?
<cbx33> I never have before
<thumper> what exactly is the error?
<cbx33> unsupported protocol for url <then the url?
 * thumper goes to try
<lifeless> cbx33: unsupported protocol - do you have paramiko installed ?
<lifeless> cbx33: what OS are you on?
<LaserJock> cbx33 is probably on Vista ;-)
<cbx33> i can push my other branch fine
<cbx33> hahahah
<lifeless> cbx33: what url is the other branch on ?
<cbx33> almost the same
<thumper> hmm worked for me
<cbx33> trailing slash
<cbx33> oh
<cbx33> no
<cbx33> sorry thought that was it
<cbx33> bzr+ssh://petesavage@bazaar.launchpad.net/~petesavage/memaker/cbx33-bf/
<cbx33> that works
<cbx33> I just createda new peoduct
<cbx33> called tigla
<cbx33> bzr+ssh://petesavage@bazaar.launchpad.net/~petesavage/tigla/cbx33-dev
<cbx33> that doesn't work
<lifeless> new products take effect immediately
<cbx33> do or don't
<lifeless> do
<cbx33> well
<cbx33> it's not working
<cbx33> :(
<lifeless> wow thats strange
<cbx33> I'm not dumb am i?
<cbx33> LaserJock, kkep quiet
 * Nafallo smiles
<LaserJock> cbx33: took all my self control
<cbx33> I bet it did
<lifeless> and you tried with a trailing /
<cbx33> yup
<cbx33> same issue
<cbx33> bzr: ERROR: Unsupported .....
<lifeless> ok, lets assume there is a cache or something
<cbx33> ok
<lifeless> don't change anything for 15 minutes
<lifeless> then try again
<cbx33> will do
<lifeless> if it works, file a bug
<cbx33> thanks lifeless 
<lifeless> if it doesn't we'll start digging inside python
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> lifeless, no dice
<cbx33> still same error
<lifeless> cbx33: ok. can you look in ~/.bzr.log and see if there is a backtrace
<lifeless> cbx33: I'd like a pastebin of the log for the failed push, which will start up a few lines from the backtrace
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> hang on
<cbx33> fixed it
<cbx33> the log fixed it for me
<cbx33> there was an unsupported character
<cbx33> which in my terminal was not showing up
<cbx33> x/89
<cbx33> thanks lifeless 
<cbx33> funny cos i retyped it several times
<mpt_> bug 12345
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 12345 in isdnutils "isdn does not work, fritz avm (pnp?)" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/12345 - Assigned to Matthias Klose (doko)
<kiko> man I am hungry
<LaserJock> kiko: need some fud?
<kiko> yes
<kiko> I might just have to go out, as much as I dread the idea
#launchpad 2008-11-17
<lifeless> I wonder if 'https://edge.launchpad.net/+search?field.text=launchpad' is worth a bug report :P
<swegner> Whenever I install package version from my own PPA, I am prompted with a "this package cannot be authenticated" warning. Is there a signature file I can add to Software Sources to avoid this warning?
<lifeless> no
<lifeless> there is a bug open on this
<swegner> gotcha-- thanks
<lifeless> bug 125103
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 125103 in soyuz "ppa archives are not signed" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/125103
<swegner> ahh, thanks, was just searching for it.
<lifeless> cute
<lifeless> http://www.powerset.com/
<lifeless> are there docs on using launchpad apis?
<jml> yes. lots.
<jml> I've even emailed the URL to you :)
<jml> lifeless: https://help.launchpad.net/API is a good starting place.
<lifeless> jml: I was google searching etc, utter fail
<Hobbsee> who are the bug launchpad guys now?
<Hobbsee> or do nominations fall into someone else's territory?
<jml> Hobbsee: not sure.
 * Hobbsee discovered an interesting bug there yesterday.
<Hobbsee> You can have a simultaneously approved & declined nomination, and once you get to that point, can't either de-approve it, or de-decline it.
<jml> two cheers for state machines
<Hobbsee> actually, maybe you can de-approve it, but i've forgotten how one tries to do that.
<Hobbsee> yup
<Hobbsee> and LP oopses if you try to de-decline it.
<jml> Hobbsee: well, file a bug *somewhere*, and if it's in the wrong place, it's not that hard for someone who knows better to change it.
<Hobbsee> that's true
 * jml quite likes that trait of Launchpad's
<spiv> Yes, making mistakes cheap to correct is a good thing.
<Hobbsee> i look forward to when it works for project/distro-type-mistakes :)
<Hobbsee> although it does for questions now
<spm> spiv: remind me to show you how "cheap" some of those mistakes are to correct from our perspective... ;-)
<spiv> spm: buying you a beer is still pretty cheap ;)
<spm> spiv: LOl. especially when I don't drink beer and would just give it straight back. :-P
<lifeless> spm: spirits?
<spm> lifeless: coke, fanta, OJ et al
<spm> *coffee*!!!
<lifeless> harder to downcast
<lifeless> but it is doable
<spm> "buy you a slab of coffee" just doesn't have the same... ring to it
<spiv> spm: that's great, because I get a favour done *and* I get a beer :)
 * spm goes to install anti-spiv filter....
<spiv> A "case of coffee" doesn't sound much better.
<jml> cake
<spm> indeed - totally OT - spiv - how goes the mo?
<jml> First there will be logs, then there will be cake.
<spiv> Well!  I'll post another update pic to the mospace thingy tonight.
<spiv> I'm looking more like a spiv each day.
 * spm has horrified visions of spiv doing a full Boonie mo....
<spiv> I'm can't look at a mirror without thinking I look ridiculous, but happily I don't generally look at myself in mirrors all that much.
<spm> :-)
<spiv> I think you need special Tasmanian genes to achieve a full, luxurious Boonie mo.
<spm> hmm. jml?
<jml> spm: buying you a beer isn't all that useful, so perhaps cake can be the substitute.
<spm> jml: no, the line spiv gave: "<spiv> I think you need special Tasmanian genes to achieve a full, luxurious Boonie mo."
<jml> oh, I have no Tasmanian genes.
<spm> A poor assumption on my part then. Apologies.
<RAOF> You don't pick them up just by passing through :)
<jml> a mere decade isn't quite enough to become Tasmanian.
<RAOF> Certainly not genetically so :P
<spm> heh.I can relate. 18 years in canberra and still consider myself a Qlder. :-)
<jml> Queenslanders are funny like that.
<jml> actually, I think a disproportionate number of Canonical .au folk are originally from QLD.
<spm> "parochial" is the word....
<jml> :)
<Hobbsee> they must need to hire some more southerners to balance that trend.
<jml> well, most of us live in NSW :)
<jml> or geometrically inside, in spm's case.
<spm> Hobbsee! You missed the perfect line! "You only need a sole southerner to balance X qlder's. Simply better doncha know."
<spm> jml: No. Comment. :-P
<Hobbsee> spm: haha
<spiv> jml: You could say he only ACTs like a NSW resident.  *ba dum tish*
<spm> damn. MUST put that anti-spiv filter on.....
<spiv> :)
<maco> i can't submit bugs.  i'm using https://bugs.launchpad.net/gwibber/+filebug  I've had on edge where a +filebug won't do anything when I hit the Continue button, but I tried +filebug-advanced (which has always worked for me on edge) and tried disabling redirection and not using edge, and whatever I try, the Sumit and Continue buttons just don't do anything
<Hobbsee> noscript?
<maco> actually, it looks like the launchpad greasemonkey scripts...
<maco> false alarm
<enurien> hy everybody
<enurien> do anyone know, where can I find MrKanister?
<enurien> :O:O:O
<enurien> ...
<mtaylor> kiko: morning... you around?
<mtaylor> or any other PPA people - I've got a very odd build error on x86 that doesn't happen on 64bit - except it's not anything that makes sense as to why it's only happening on x86
<mtaylor> so I thought it _might_ possibly be a PPA bug?
<mtaylor> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/19713425/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-i386.protobuf_2.0.2-4intrepid1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<wgrant> It could be a race.
<Hobbsee> mtaylor: what arch:all packages are you building there?
<wgrant> Note how it removes debian/tmp a few lines before it fails to copy something into it...
<persia> That, or as it's in Java bindings, perhaps related to arch:all vs. arch:any
<mtaylor> hrm.
<wgrant> That too.
<wgrant> Does it happen on lpia?
<mtaylor> Hobbsee: arch: all is just libprotobuf-java and python-protobuf
<Hobbsee> sorry, i meant to ask about arch:any, iirc.
<mtaylor> nope. lpia builds fine
<wgrant> Hmm.
<mtaylor> Hobbsee: any: libprotobuf0 libprotobuf-dev  and protobuf-compiler (which has the problem file)
<mtaylor> oh, and I re-did the build and got the same error :(
<mtaylor> seriously though - what's up with the interleaved dh_clean during the install?
<Hobbsee> errr...
<Hobbsee> +install: install-indep install-arch
<Hobbsee> +install-indep:
<Hobbsee> +	dh_testdir
<Hobbsee> +	dh_testroot
<Hobbsee> +	dh_clean -k -i
<Hobbsee> +	dh_installdirs -i
<Hobbsee> probably because you didn't put dh_clean last, no?
<wgrant> Ehem.
<wgrant> Hmm.
<Hobbsee> (which would explain why it only happens on i386)
<wgrant> dh_clean -k isn't dh_clean at all.
<Hobbsee> mtaylor: my guess would be that you'd find switching them worked.
<Hobbsee> oh, isn't it?
<wgrant> No, confusingly enough,
<wgrant>        -k, --keep
<wgrant>            This causes dh_prep(1) to be run instead of dh_clean, for backwards compatibility.
<mtaylor> sigh
<mtaylor> that sounds like a wonderful flag
<Hobbsee> but it removes debian/tmp.
<Hobbsee> dh_prep is a debhelper program that performs some file cleanups in
<Hobbsee>        preparation for building a package. (This is what dh_clean -k used to
<Hobbsee>        do.)  It removes the package build directories, debian/tmp, and some
<Hobbsee>        temp files that are generated during the build. Putting this at the
<Hobbsee>        start of the build process makes the build process idempotent.
<wgrant> Oh.
<Hobbsee> which will cause the build to blow up
<wgrant> Hmmm.
<mtaylor> awesome
 * Hobbsee looks up what the hell idempotent is
<wgrant> So binary-indep depends on stuff installed in binary-arch, or something?
<mtaylor> that'll teach me to try to adapt someone else's packaging
<jamesh> Hobbsee: it means doing it twice is the same as doing it once
<Hobbsee> ah, right.
<mtaylor> how about I take dh_clean -k -i out of the install rules
<jamesh> not quite the same as "side effect free", since it can have side effects as long as they don't affect output for subsequent calls
<mtaylor> and instead stick it up in configure or something
<Hobbsee> err, doesn't clean get run after all the installs?
<mtaylor> does it?
<persia> Why would it be run?
<Hobbsee> well, as in, rather than before the installs actually get run.
<persia> (unless it's in debian/rules, it probably doesn't happen (ignoring include directives)
<Hobbsee> persia: as in, at all?
<persia> Hobbsee, Right.  There's a call to debian/rules clean at the beginning of the build, but that doesn't guarantee anything specific.
 * Hobbsee tries to remember how this all works
<Hobbsee> oh, i thought that got automatically called at hte end, or something.
<mtaylor> Hobbsee: wgrant: took out the dh_clean -k  - all worked fine
<mtaylor> thanks!
<Hobbsee> mtaylor: you're welcome :)
<wgrant> Hmmm.
<SpunkMeYeR> hi all
<SpunkMeYeR> anybody here ever try install nav?
 * Hobbsee thinks you want #ubuntu
<pygi> SpunkMeYeR, what does this channel has with NAV?
<pygi> hi Hobbsee
<SpunkMeYeR> because i see this website https://launchpad.net/nav
<SpunkMeYeR> so i'm in wrong channel?
<pygi> yup yup :)
<pygi> it's just being developed on Launchpad
<pygi> SpunkMeYeR, #nav
<pygi> ;)
<SpunkMeYeR> thanks pygi, but i already try that <-- no body can help :(
<Hobbsee> hey pygi
<Hobbsee> oh, right
 * Hobbsee assumed nav was an ubuntu package or something
<pygi> Hobbsee, long time no see :)
<Hobbsee> pygi: indeed!
<pygi> Hobbsee, I assumed it was that Microsoft thingy :)
<Hobbsee> heh
<pygi> well, it's more known then this thingy xD
<pygi> SpunkMeYeR, heh
<pygi> SpunkMeYeR, well, I guess wait there, devs might come sooner or later :)
<SpunkMeYeR> yup.. maybe they are busy or something :)
<StFS> hello, I'm wondering whether launchpad is a "service" type of thing only or whether it's possible (easy) for me to set up my own instance of launchpad? I know there is a project for the launchpad code (on launchpad) but I haven't found much documentation about how to deploy it in my own infrastructure.
<mwhudson> it's a service type thing
<StFS> ok, thanks
<wB3> Sorry, there was a problem connecting to the Launchpad server.  -- http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~bzr/bzr/trunk/files
<spiv> wB3: try again, sometimes loggerhead (the software for browsing inside bzr branches) is a bit slow.
<wB3> ok, up
<wB3> thank you
<voland> Good day to you all. Could anyone help me to setup my ppa?
<bigjools> voland: how can I help?
<cprov> voland: sure, did you follow https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA ?
<voland> i cannot upload my packages using dput
<voland> i've recived e-mail titled "rejected"
<voland> and yes, i followed url above
<Hobbsee> did it say why?
<voland> yes, it says: Rejected:
<voland> Unable to find distroseries: interpid
<voland> Further error processing not possible because of a critical previous error.
<Hobbsee> voland: well, that should be fairly obvious.   you've mispelt 'intrepid'
<Hobbsee> in debian/changelog
<Hobbsee> fortunately, it's simple to fix!
<voland> oh Lord! Thank you very much. By the way, in my profile in Launchpad it said that my ppa is for jaunty
<voland> can i change it to 'intrepid'
<Hobbsee> :)
<Hobbsee> it will automatically change to intrepid when you upload something for intrepid
<Hobbsee> iirc
<bigjools> yes
<voland> thank you again
<Hobbsee> you're welcome!
<voland> now it says: Section 'office' is not valid
<voland> which section shoul i use for office application?
<persia> voland, From what do you get that message?
<persia> The reject mail from the PPA?
<voland> it was e-mailed to me after dput upload
<voland> section 'offie' is in debian/control
<cprov> voland: 'office' is not a valid intrepid section. The fact that we don't publish the valid sections for a distroseries in LP is a bug
<persia> Interesting.  That might be a bug.  It might mean you have to use something listed in debian-policy.  I'm not sure if PPAs follow the same policy, but it's likely they do: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-archive.html#s-subsections
<voland> so what shoul i do? leave it blank?
<cprov> persia: do you know if there is a easy way to list them all using dpkg/apt ?
<persia> cprov, I don't.  How do you determine if they are valid?
 * persia checks how lintian does it
<cprov> voland: if you omit Section:  it will default to 'misc'
<voland> i'll take a try
<cprov> persia: it's a manually defined collection in LP. I was thinking more like 'Mr dpkg, return all unique sections in my archive index cache, please.'
<voland> thank you
<persia> cprov, It's hardcoded in lintian, so I'm guessing there's no easy way to extract it from dpkg.
<cprov> persia: okay, a stronger reason to list them in LP, I guess.
<persia> cprov, Hrm.  I don't think dpkg can do that, but it shouldn't be hard to extract from a set of Packages files.
<persia> On the other hand, you probably don't want a section becoming valid just because a stray package got in somehow.
<persia> Debian hardcodes to enforce policy control by ftp-masters.  For Ubuntu, the equivalent is roughly archive-admins.  If you made it settable, they'd probably be the group that would want to be able to adjust it.
<voland> so there is no page in LP where theese sections listed?
<cprov> persia: yes, good point.
<persia> voland, No, which is the bug.
<voland> sad :(
<persia> cprov, Especially if LP ever grows even more distribution-neutral (I think all the imported distros have the same Section policy currently), this could be important.
<cprov> file a bug, I don't remember of seen it before.
<persia> voland, Do you want to file the bug, or shall I?
<persia> cprov, Which component?  Soyuz?
<voland> persia, I'm afraid I have no such expirience to decribe it :) so please do it
<cprov> persia: yes, please.
<voland> persia, sorry for mispell
<voland> another one question from ppa newbie :) how can i add my deb into ppa?
<cprov> voland: golden question
<cprov> voland: you don't .. PPA is a build service, you upload sources and it will build the binaries for you.
<voland> :) it's a miracle! :) i'm dumbest person in the world :)
<cprov> voland: does it make sense ?
<cprov> voland: no worries, it's a very common doubt, people don't believe in such a coolest service when they first see it ;)
<Ng> http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=242653
<cprov> persia: great bug report, thank you.
<persia> cprov, Thanks for the feedback :)
<voland> i've uploaded files to LP, but build fails: checking for pkg-config... no
<voland> checking for PACKAGE... configure: error: The pkg-config script could not be found or is too old.  Make sure it
<voland> is in your PATH or set the PKG_CONFIG environment variable to the full
<voland> path to pkg-config.
<voland> but it works on my machine
<persia> voland, Check your Build-Depends.  Your local environment is probably dirty.
<voland> ok
<voland> persia, and where i can check them
<voland> sorry for dusturbing you
<persia> voland, It's in debian/control.
<persia> Also, while this is a great channel to discuss issues with a PPA, it's not really a great channel to learn packaging.
<voland> persia, sorry :)
<persia> voland, It's not a big issue, it's just that it distracts the LP developers.  I'd recommend setting up a local sbuild if you want to investigate things in depth: saves uploading and trying to decode the output.
* abentley changed the topic of #launchpad to: ï»¿https://launchpad.net/ | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Need help? Community help contact: - abentley
<Odd_Bloke> Is there a publically-accessible roadmap for Launchpad becoming free software?
<kiko> Odd_Bloke, not yet, but I think it will be publicized in december.
<kiko> that's my plan
<Odd_Bloke> kiko: OK, that's pretty cool.  Thanks. :)
<beuno> Hobbsee, kirkland, https://bugs.staging.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/139202
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 139202 in bzr ""Could not acquire lock" error doesn't tell you how to fix it" [Medium,Fix released]
<kirkland> beuno: awesome ;-)
<kirkland> beuno: works for me ;-)
<beuno> fantastic, that's just waiting there to roll out to production
<beuno> so it's out of my hands now
<tgm4883_laptop> I received a rejected email when uploading a package to my PPA.  The email stated the reason was "Unable to find distroseries: hardy intrepid".  According to debian-policy http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-source.html#s-dpkgchangelog  I should be able to have a space separated list of distributions in my changelog.  My changelog line looks like "mythnettv-gui (1.0~bzr32-0ubuntu1) hardy intrepid; urgency=low"  Is th
<tgm4883_laptop> ere a reason Soyuz doesn't allow this?
<beuno> tgm4883_laptop, I don't think you can do that with PPAs
<beuno> you probably have to upload twice to different series
<tgm4883_laptop> yes I can see that, but my question is why?
<tgm4883_laptop> was there a conscious reason for Soyuz to not allow that or was it an overlook of debian-policy?
 * beuno pokes cprov-lunch or bigjools 
<beuno> kiko, ^  do you know?
<vvinet> tgm4883_laptop: from what I've seen, you must upload it to a single distro
<vvinet> then from launchpad you can copy it to other distros
<cprov-lunch> tgm4883_laptop: simple answer is: because it's not implemented.
<cprov-lunch> tgm4883_laptop: see https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+bug/235064
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 235064 in soyuz "Implement multi-release support for packages" [Undecided,New]
<hunk4ths> sorry ,  in launchpad i public my projects ??
<hunk4ths> projects in PHP
<jml> abentley: should I take over the topic now?
<abentley> jml: Please do.
* jml changed the topic of #launchpad to: ï»¿https://launchpad.net/ | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Need help? Community help contact: - jml
<fta> i'm still suffering from several "FATAL: kernel too old" with my ppa :( any progress on that?
<CarlFK> lp.net is an Open ID provider, right ?
<cprov-lunch> fta: no, sorry.
<thumper> CarlFK: AFAIK
<CarlFK> https://launchpad.net/~carl-personnelware  thats 'me' - so what do I put in http://www.ustream.tv/login-signup  "Open ID Login"  ?
<CarlFK> hmm.. maybe I have to create an account there first.  i am still confused by OID things
<jml> CarlFK: your user page on edge should have an openid url. not sure about launchpad.net -- lemme check
<CarlFK> jml: what is  "on edge" ?
<jml> CarlFK: https://edge.launchpad.net/~carl-personnelware
<jml> CarlFK: it's a version of Launchpad for beta testers.
<jml> CarlFK: but, I can see my openid login on https://launchpad.net/~jml
<jml> CarlFK: on other websites that support openid, I've just pasted it in on the registration form
<CarlFK> you pasted ï»¿ https://launchpad.net/~jml ?
<jml> CarlFK: no, there's a URL that's displayed on that page, next to a label saying "OpenID login"
<jml> CarlFK: if you can't see it, it might be an "only for beta testers" thing -- in which case, would you like to be a beta tester?
<CarlFK> sure
<CarlFK> that's about all I do :)
<jml> CarlFK: :)
<jml> CarlFK: ok, I haven't done this before so give me a minute.
<CarlFK> beta beta...
<jml> CarlFK: ok. try reloading your LP home page.
<CarlFK> "               Launchpad Beta Testers                 Joined       29 seconds ago     "
<CarlFK> but still no open id
<jml> hmm.
<jml> nothing that says "id.launchpad.net"?
<CarlFK> wait... im not logged into lp..
<CarlFK> er,, not loged into edge...
<kiko> CarlFK, jml: note that we're going with launchpad.net/~foo as the sekrit plan
<jml> kiko: cool.
<kiko> the numbers thing just.. was too much for too little
<CarlFK> OpenID login ... yay.
<CarlFK> kiko: mum's the word
<Hobbsee> i wish launchpad would provide some information about not assigning bugs to big teams.
<Hobbsee> or at least, forbid certain teams being assigned to bugs, controllable by the drivers of each project.
<jml> Hobbsee: the actual problem being unwanted bug mail?
<Hobbsee> jml: yes
<Hobbsee> jml: and the fact that it's useless to assign certain teams to bugs
<Hobbsee> (unless they have a specific workflow that way)
<Hobbsee> beuno: er, i think you meant that link for persia?
<jml> Hobbsee: actually, I didn't even know you could assign bugs to teams :)
<Hobbsee> jml: oh, you can.  Including ones with 80 people :P
<Hobbsee> i think it's 80, anyway
<jml> Hobbsee: who's assigning these bugs anyway?
<Hobbsee> jml: clueless users, i think.  The main case seems to be "look up the maintainer, file the bug, assign the bug to the maintainer"
<Hobbsee> unfortunately, the maintainer is a team of ~80 people.
<Hobbsee> as we do group maintainership
<jml> *nod*
<jml> Hobbsee: these are users who are forbidden from setting the priority, right?
<Hobbsee> jml: i expect so.  No one would manage to make it thru to -quality if they consistently made errors like that.
<jml> (do you see where I'm going with this?)
<Hobbsee> ah.  Yes.
<Hobbsee> for teams, or for assigning anyone?
<jml> Well, I'd start with assigning anyone, because it's a simpler idea.
<Hobbsee> well, being able to assign an individual to a bug, as anyone, is useful.
<Hobbsee> a lot of -quality hopefuls do that, as they're taking responsibility to track down a bug
<Hobbsee> so, i don't think it's overly helpful to drop that use case, even though it's simpler
<jml> assigning a bug to yourself is different from assigning it to someone else though
<Hobbsee> that's true, but there are certainly use cases of "oh, file a bug on launchpad, and assign or subscribe me, please"
<Hobbsee> i don't think the annoyance factor for sending mail to one person is that high, either.  Usually they'll have had something to do with it, for the user to think of assigning them at all.
<Hobbsee> either because they've modified it recently, or asked them to file it, or whatever
<Hobbsee> in which case, the assignment is likely to be valid - or they'll already receive the bug mail anyway
<Hobbsee> (if they're subscribed to the project, for eg)
<Hobbsee> 55 active (ubuntu-core-dev) and 112 active (ubuntu-dev).  it's gone up!
<beuno> Hobbsee, I don't think so
<beuno> it's the onw where you can copy n paste bug #
<Hobbsee> beuno: right.  Then Ithink you got the wrong number, as ubottu agrees with me - it's a bug about bzr lock.
<Hobbsee> beuno: but, cool :)
<beuno> Hobbsee, right, it's the first bug I had in my history  :)
<Hobbsee> ah :)
<Hobbsee> no wonder i couldn't guess the context, then :P
<jml> Hobbsee: I've filed https://bugs.launchpad.net/malone/+bug/299257
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 299257 in malone "Too easy to spam a team by assigning a bug to them" [Undecided,New]
<Hobbsee> jml: ah, cool
<jml> Hobbsee: it's *almost* a dupe.
<Hobbsee> jml: yes, almost.  It's two ways to go about solving the same problem.
<jml> Hobbsee: well, "subscribe" and "assign" are different features and could arguably have different workflows.
<Hobbsee> jml: that's true
<Hobbsee> and some teams are legitimately supposed to be subscribed.
 * Hobbsee isn't quite sure why ubuntu-dev, ubuntu-core-dev, etc, have no /dev/null mailing list, either.
<Hobbsee> jml: do you know what happened to fix it friday?
<jml> Hobbsee: yes. it died.
<Hobbsee> jml: why?
<jml> Hobbsee: quite a few reasons.
<jml> Hobbsee: many of which require extensive narration to fully explain.
<jml> Hobbsee: we need a thing *like* the old fix-it-friday though.
<Hobbsee> ahhh
<Hobbsee> yes
* jml changed the topic of #launchpad to: ï»¿https://launchpad.net/ | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Need help? Community help contact: - jml (afk)
* jml changed the topic of #launchpad to: ï»¿https://launchpad.net/ | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Need help? Community help contact: - jml
#launchpad 2008-11-18
<jml> Hobbsee: is https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/50248 being tracked in the bug? does the question need to stay open?
<Hobbsee> jml: Pass.  I don't do translation stuff at all
<jml> sorry, wrong URL
<jml> https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/50893
<jml> Hobbsee: ^^ that one
 * jml needs a global kill-ring
<Hobbsee> jml: i'm not sure.  I guess not, as long as something actually happens with the bug.
<jml> Hobbsee: ok. I've closed the question. Re-open it if you reckon it'll help.
<Hobbsee> jml: ok, thanks
<mwhudson> is Fabien Tassin here?
<Hobbsee> mwhudson: fta?
<mwhudson> ah yes
<mwhudson> fta: hello
<jml> is there an equivalent of https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/<bug_id> for questions?
<fta> mwhudson, hi
<mwhudson> fta: so about the google chrome import
<fta> mwhudson, the import is broken, and now the project is was tied to has been removed too. I can reask for an import but i assume it will fail too for the same reason
<mwhudson> fta: i'm not sure that's a good assumption
<mwhudson> fta: in other words, i think it's worth a try
<fta> the svn url will be the same
<fta> i don't see how it will be different from ~1 hour ago when the old project was still alive
<mwhudson> won't the url be http://src.chromium.org/svn/trunk/src rather than http://src.chromium.org/svn/trunk/src/chrome ?
<fta> yes, but one is a subset of the other, but should import just fine
<fta> -but+both
<fta> btw, this one is broken too https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/v8/trunk
<fta> v8 is part of the chromium project too
<mwhudson> the two-bit summary of the v8 failure is that google code sucks
<mwhudson> i guess i can try to use svnsync to get a local copy of the repository and import from that
<mwhudson> <fta> yes, but one is a subset of the other, but should import just fine
<mwhudson> fta: when you've worked in the crufty business of vcs imports for as long as me, you stop making assumptions :)
<fta> i have local import of both in bzr, it's just fine, i also made a git import to compare with bzr, fine too
<mwhudson> i bet you didn't do the imports with cscvs
<fta> indeed
<mwhudson> where as the vcs imports service on launchpad does
<mwhudson> fta: what is it you actually trying to achieve here?
<mwhudson> +are
<fta> those imports were not from me, but i'm using them to monitor the status of the project. I recently created my local imports because the ones on lp were broken, and also because i'm creating packages
* jml changed the topic of #launchpad to: ï»¿https://launchpad.net/ | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Need help? Community help contact: - jml (afk)
<fta> mwhudson, if it's too complicated, nm. i'll setup a real local sync when i have time.
<mwhudson> it's not necessarily complicated
<mwhudson> basically, i would invite you to set up the imports you want, as you want them
<mwhudson> and ignore/have deleted the broken ones
<fta> ok, will do. thanks for your time
<fta> 3am here. 'night all.
<mwhudson> night
<CarlFK> who is respncible for "2) The version of the package you are using, via 'apt-cache policy packagename' or by checking in Synaptic."
<CarlFK> it would be nice if ï»¿'packagename' was the name of the package I am reporting on
<CarlFK> so that I can cut/paste that, and cut/paste the results
<Hobbsee> CarlFK: instead of the source package it belongs to?
<jml> CarlFK: where does that text appear?
<CarlFK> whats the difference?
<CarlFK> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xawtv/+filebug#form-start
<CarlFK> may need to fill in a summary: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xawtv/+filebug "x" enter, "No, I'd like to report a new" bug" scroll down
<Hobbsee> CarlFK: some sources contain many binaries.  launchpad is organised by source packages
<CarlFK> oh... I think I kinda get it.  ï»¿"In what package did you find this bug?"  is on the same page.  so it would have to do ajaxy validation then replace ï»¿packagename with something
* jml changed the topic of #launchpad to: ï»¿https://launchpad.net/ | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Need help? Community help contact: - jml
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<jml> the truth is I never left you.
<Ryan52> Why is the "Importance" for bugs read only? how do I get the ability to change them?
<Ryan52> (if this is the wrong place to ask this, then sorry, please point me to the correct place)
<persia> Ryan52, You need to be a member of the right bug team for the project against which the bug is filed.
<Ryan52> "Ubuntu Bugs" is the only team listed in the "Also Notified". Does that mean that's the team I need to be a part of?
<persia> Oh, for bugs in Ubuntu, you need to be in ubuntu-bugcontrol
<persia> But for bugs in #ubuntu, #ubuntu-bugs is a better place to ask.
<Ryan52> ok, thanks
<Ow1> hi.
<Ow1> were the unlicences translations removed from Launchpad ?
<kiko-zzz> Ow1, not sure they were done yet, but they are scheduled for today
<Ow1> do you know how should I format the URL to point to a translation
<Ow1> and to be valid for all users
<Ow1> I know there is something with +me
<kiko-zzz> visit the translation page for the string and use that URL?
<Ow1> but tha url contains my username
<kiko-zzz> Ow1, does it? can you give me an answer?
<Ow1> yes
<Ow1> I can see it
<kiko-zzz> sorry s/answer/example/
<Ow1> a
<Ow1> https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/~adiroiban/+licensing
<Ow1> this is for my account
<kiko-zzz> Ow1, well.. that's not a URL for a translation. can you explain what you want to give people?
<Ow1> I want to ask them to accet the BSD licence
<Ow1> accept
<kiko-zzz> Ow1, gotcha! that's not the same as you asked before :)
<kiko-zzz> Ow1, translations.launchpad.net/+me/+licensing
<kiko-zzz> sorry
<kiko-zzz> https://translations.launchpad.net/people/+me/+licensing
<Ow1> many thanks!
 * wgrant thinks that /+me should work.
<Ow1> so for any further usage i should replace "~adiroiban" with "people/+me"
<Ow1> it is working
<kiko-zzz> yep
<Ow1> Right now if someone has not accepted the BSD licence, his/her translations will be removed from Launchpad.
<kiko-zzz> right
<Ow1> What happens if he/she accept the licence tomorrow?
<kiko-zzz> it will be too late
<Ow1> is there a way to recover them?
<kiko-zzz> danilo-afk, ping
<wgrant> Hm.
<kiko-zzz> I don't believe so
<wgrant> I thought I saw an email saying they wouldn't be removed due to non-answering.
 * wgrant finds it.
<kiko-zzz> really?
<Ow1> yes. mee to. I also saw that email from Danilo
<wgrant> What about people who haven't answered the question yet.. is there
<wgrant> > going to be a mail-out to those translators, or the administrators of
<wgrant> > the projects concerned?
<wgrant> "Those translations will be kept."
<wgrant> From danilos himself.
<wgrant> What an awful paste.
 * wgrant kicks Thunderbird.
<oojah> Where did this email get sent?
<Ow1> ubuntu translators lists
<wgrant> oojah: launchpad-users
<oojah> Right, ok.
<wgrant> And ubuntu-translators, it seems.
<oojah> I must've missed it.
<wgrant> Re: Important Launchpad news: removal of non-BSD licenced translations
<wgrant> On 2008/11/15
<kiko-zzz> Ow1: william's right and I stand corrected; there's a point that I hadn't noticed originally
<wgrant> Actually, probably 2008/11/14 unless you're in Australia or NZ...
<oojah> :)
<wgrant> I cannot understand how somebody behind Sun's NAT can drop out so frequently.
<persia> wgrant, Awkward placement of WiFi transmitters?  When attending Sun-sponsored events, I've often found I had short drops.
<oojah> I don't really follow l-u so it's a good job I noticed this conversation. I wonder what percentage of translators have/haven't responded yet.
<luisbg_> I want to change the status of this spec https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntu-studio to done, can I do it or does it have to be pete savage (the registerer)?
<cody-somerville> luisbg_, either a launchpad admin, ubuntu driver, or Pete will have to change it
<luisbg_> cody-somerville, thanks! long time no see
<luisbg_> any launchpad admin in the house? :P
 * paolettopn e' away (ciao a tutti!)
 * paolettopn e' away (ciao a tutti!)
 * paolettopn e' away (ciao a tutti!)
<Hobbsee> paolettopn_zzz: any chance you can get rid of that script?
<kalila> danilos: urgent - please check your email (Djihed)
<mrevell> Hey, does anyone here speak Turkish?
<vvinet> hey, is it normal that I get "edit upstream link association" and "delete upstream link association" links on a project overview page
<vvinet> even though I should not have any permissions on that project
<vvinet> (I didn't try the links - dont want to )
<persia> vvinet, It's normal for things not yet associated, in the hopes that people would only use them if they have the correct data.
<persia> delete upstream link association sounds odd.  I suspect it would take you to an error.  If not, hrm.
<vvinet> I see it here: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdebase-workspace
<vvinet> I have not clicked the delete button, as it is a POST form and could therefore have an effect
<vvinet> (in theory)
<persia> Better not to click it then.
<CoMp4c7> i have an app which uses openid. I can login with all providers I have tested (myopenid, claimid, verisign) but not with launchpad, any ideas?
<RainCT> kiko: can you help CoMp4c7? :)
<kiko> CoMp4c7, hmmm. well, it's a problem for sinzui and flacoste. what's the problem you're having?
<CoMp4c7> i am getting the errror:  Server denied check_authentication
<sinzui> CoMp4c7: This may relate to OAuth. My own scripts (launchpad API) require an Authorization token
 * sinzui thinks
<CoMp4c7> i can login succesfully with the same app running in local
<sinzui> CoMp4c7: what do you mean by local? Your localhost? Your home directory?
<CoMp4c7> sorry, localhost
<sinzui> oh CoMp4c7 by openid, do you mean your Launchpad OpenID url?
<CoMp4c7> i am trying to log in with http://login.launchpad.net
 * sinzui wonders if this is borked because Launchpad does not use OpenID for its own logins
<CoMp4c7> sorry, i don't understand what are you saying
<flacoste> CoMp4c7: are you a beta test users?
<CoMp4c7> yes
<sinzui> Since this works on localhost, I wonder if this is a cookie issue. Launchpad knows you are login by the cookie in the request
<CoMp4c7> if I remove all cookies in browser it should not happen?
<flacoste> CoMp4c7: where are you trying to log in?
<CoMp4c7> http://db.freevial.org
<flacoste> CoMp4c7: when I enter https://login.launchpad.net in there, i get the 'Authenticate to http://db.freevial.org' screen on Launchpad
<flacoste> which allows me to click 'Sign In'
<flacoste> ok,
<flacoste> it seems to fail for me also after that
<CoMp4c7> do you have any ideas about what could be the problem?
<flacoste> CoMp4c7: not really, i'd say a problem in Freevial openid implementation
<flacoste> CoMp4c7: well
<flacoste> i think what is happening is that its trying to use check_immediate/check_authentication to validate the just provided credentials
<flacoste> and we don't support that mode
<flacoste> and the spec allows us to do this
<flacoste> check_immediate/check_authentication is for validating credentials without user intervention, a valid response is 'I cannot do this without user intervention' which it seems they decide to fail
<flacoste> but this is a valid return code
<CoMp4c7> and why do you think it is not a problem on localhost?
<flacoste> what do you mean localhost?
<RainCT> flacoste: (He's the author. The source is available at http://tinyurl.com/freevial-db-edit, btw)
<CoMp4c7> when app is running in localhost
<flacoste> hmm
<flacoste> ok
<flacoste> actually, i just checked check_authentication spec
<flacoste> and what i was just saying is incorrect
<flacoste> check_authentication is used by a consumer to valide the signature
<flacoste> if we say it's invalid, it's because probably of a request parameter
<CoMp4c7> but if the problem is with the request, it also had to fail when the app is runnig in localhost
<flacoste> CoMp4c7: what is Auth/OpenID ?
<CoMp4c7> flacoste: sorry, i don't understand what you are asking for
<flacoste> CoMp4c7: what OpenID library are you using?%
<CoMp4c7> flacoste: PHPÂ OpenIDÂ libraryÂ byÂ JanRain
<flacoste> CoMp4c7: version?
<CoMp4c7> flacoste: 2.1.2
<flacoste> CoMp4c7: ok, i'm trying to see if I can find a record of that error on my side
<flacoste> CoMp4c7: from the top of my head, I'd suspect difference some of the parameters that change from one request to the next one
<flacoste> on the live site, but not on localhost
<flacoste> but this is really hand-wavy
<flacoste> CoMp4c7: in particular, make sure that getReturnto() returns an identical value from within the two requests
<flacoste> CoMp4c7: when mode='try' and when mode='continue'
<flacoste> CoMp4c7: other things to consider, is /tmp configuration in both instances?
<flacoste> CoMp4c7: and is apache configured similarly in both instances
<flacoste> i'm thinking about configuration which makes that the store isn't really used
<flacoste> and so means that it falls back to the check_authentication dumb mode
<flacoste> which is an error if the request started by a valid association (saved to the store, but lost when the reply comes back)
<flacoste> thus going down the check_authentication route (which fails, because a shared secret was used initially)
<CoMp4c7> flacoste: but if store is not working fine, it would fail with other providers
<flacoste> CoMp4c7: maybe
<flacoste> depends on the implementation of the other providers
<flacoste> which protocol they are using
<flacoste> 1.x or 2.x
<CoMp4c7> about apache, I don't think both servers are configured similary, db.freevial.org is in a shared hosting
<CoMp4c7> but I checked the problem is not a mod_encoding problem, as many people say in Google
<CoMp4c7> flacoste: i have manually typed returnTo to be sure it doesn't change and i get the same error
<flacoste> CoMp4c7: ok, i'll have to look at my logs, but first i need some lunch, will you be around later?
<CoMp4c7> i will be here next 3 hours i think
<CoMp4c7> thank you very much for your help!
 * paolettopn e' away (ciao a tutti!)
 * paolettopn e' away (ciao a tutti!)
<ahasenack> so, my use case of PPA is to build packages for me. I only use PPA because I need these packages for older distros (dapper, for example), otherwise I would be building them on my machine only (hardy).
<ahasenack> so I tend to upload packages, build, tweak, upload again, etc
<ahasenack> the problem is that PPA checks the versions, and I can't just delete a package and upload it again, PPA wants me to bump the version all the tame
<ahasenack> time
<ahasenack> so isn't PPA for me?
<persia> ahasenack, Probably not.  You might be interested in a local installation of pbuilder or sbuild.
<cprov-lunch> ahasenack: why the version suffix bother you ?
<ahasenack> cprov-lunch: I use my ppa for build tests, and once I'm satisfied I use the landscape's ppa "for real"
<beuno> ahasenack, that's the nature of apt
<ahasenack> so, basically I only want a build machine for the older distros
<ahasenack> I don't mean to use my PPA to publish these builds
<cprov-lunch> ahasenack: it very hard for use to guess that.
<ahasenack> use?
<ahasenack> cprov-lunch: if you mean "users", well, that's it, I don't want users for my ppa
<cprov-lunch> ahasenack: you can workaround that easily by working on $real_version~ppaN
<cprov-lunch> ahasenack: I meant 'us', but nevermind
<ahasenack> cprov-lunch: unless the problem I was debugging and testing involved the versioning itself... :(
<ahasenack> cprov-lunch: which is what it does, so I can't mangle the version-release part because I actually need to test an upgrade path
<persia> beuno, Hrm?  How is it apt?  apt doesn't mind if you upgrade, downgrade, crossgrade, etc. (although things might break).  I thought it was for repo sanity.
<cprov-lunch> ahasenack: apart from being more difficult and confusing the version tilde suffix should allow you to test upgrade paths as well
<cprov-lunch> ahasenack: but I understand it might become inconvenient in certain cases.
<ahasenack> cprov-lunch: can I have more than one ppa attached to the same account?
<cprov-lunch> ahasenack: no
<ahasenack> I read somewhere about private ppa
<ahasenack> ok
<cprov-lunch> ahasenack: I don't know exactly what to suggest, usually people go for PPA because they want history and a coherent repository, if you only care about building in a pristine area you can use pbuilder
<cprov-lunch> ahasenack: play as much as you want locally and upload the 'final' version to PPA
<ahasenack> cprov-lunch: can I use pbuilder to build for older distros? Like dapper? Just install a dapper chroot, etc?
<cprov-lunch> ahasenack: bear in mind that there is always a safe way around version (either using ~ or + as suffix), unless you use epoch :(
<ahasenack> cprov-lunch: the package is already using ~
<ahasenack> so I can't mangle it twice
<cprov-lunch> ahasenack: yes, you can have multiple chroots with pbuilder
<ahasenack> even the landscape ppa, we don't use its publishing capabilities in landscape, we have another repository elsewhere that is the official one
<ahasenack> we basically use ppa as a build mechanism, that's all
 * ahasenack searches for space on his laptop for 3+ more distros
<cprov-lunch> ahasenack: you have the history on PPA
<ahasenack> cprov-lunch: we have it in bzr branches
<ahasenack> cprov-lunch: we don't grab the previous source build to build a new version, our debian/* structure is in bzr
<cprov-lunch> ahasenack: not the binary as it was built originally, I suppose
<ahasenack> cprov-lunch: no, those we archive elsewhere too
<cprov-lunch> ahasenack: it's just a little frustrate, on both sides, we could publish stuff with not checks what so ever, but if you look to the ubuntu history all 300k sources have coherent versions. Why is that hard to get on a project basis ?
<ahasenack> cprov-lunch: I understand your side, believe me
<ahasenack> cprov-lunch: my biggest problem is with builds for older distros, which I don't have at hand to test and "practice"
<ahasenack> cprov-lunch: so PPA is basically unforgiving regarding any mistakes
<cprov-lunch> ahasenack: note that I'm not blaming you, it's a general problem, bzr gets this too.
<ahasenack> cprov-lunch: even if the mistakes were never "released"
<ahasenack> cprov-lunch: again, it's because I use it as a build bot and have no intention of publishing the packages until they are fine
<cprov-lunch> ahasenack: it's very fascist in this aspect
<ahasenack> cprov-lunch: hmm, am I wrong in thinking that even failed builds get blacklisted? I vaguely remember something about that
<cprov-lunch> yes, even FTBFS versions get blacklisted.
<persia> ahasenack, You can use ~~ to further mangle ~, but you *really* want a local build service for your use case.
<cprov-lunch> persia: really ? ehe
<ahasenack> cprov-lunch: so, if people use ppa to build+publish, wouldn't they probably have a local build service anyway to test first?
<ahasenack> cprov-lunch: if failed builds get blacklisted, that would waste a version/release
<ahasenack> cprov-lunch: anyway, sorry, it's another topic
<cprov-lunch> `dpkg --compare-versions '1.0~1' 'lt' '1.0~~1' || echo 'it is'`
<persia> cprov-lunch, '~' isn't magic.  It's just a character.  It happens to sort beneath null.
<persia> So ~~ sorts before ~
<ahasenack> thanks for the tips all, I will try to get some linodes as build bots for my use case
<cprov-lunch> persia: I didn't assume it to be magic, just restrict to a single use in debian versions. But you are right, it's smaller and pass the validation regexp.
<persia> ahasenack, You might be interested in deb-o-matic, which is a framework to have multiple pbuilders running against multiple targets on a remote (controlled) host for build-testing.
<persia> cprov-lunch, That's just convention.
<persia> (and in Debian, if you need more than one, you've already shot yourself in the foot)
<cprov-lunch> great, let's applaud !
<persia> cprov-lunch, This brings back the debate as to use cases for PPAs :)  Has there been any discussion on the topic in the past couple months?
<NCommander> persia, oooh, that sounds cool, where can I find this deb-o-matic?
<cprov-lunch> persia: no, just this project-based ppa thing hitting us harder and harder.
<persia> cprov-lunch, Ran into that one with the Japanese team today as well.  I suspect that's probably a more important priority than sorting individuals.
<cprov-lunch> persia: but do you understand why is it hard for teams to follow a safe versioning path ?
<persia> Yes.
<cprov-lunch> persia: is it a social problem cause by the lack of "queue"  (review) ?
<persia> I wrote it up in a bug once.  I'll go try to find it.
<cprov-lunch> s/cause/caused
<persia> No.
<persia> It's the use of PPAs for distribution vs. the use of PPAs for test-building/review.
<persia> I personally believe PPAs are currently positioned somewhere between the two, and not quite optimal for either, but I want to find my rant again.
<cprov-lunch> persia: right, I see your point
<persia> bug #263301 is different, but my comment there sums up the two use cases.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 263301 in soyuz "Can't re-upload a package with a different src tarball after deletion in PPA" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/263301
<persia> There's a couple other related bugs, but I don't see them right now.
<cprov-lunch> persia: let me check.
<persia> I have seen bug reports from users wishing each of the two use cases, so it's not clear-cut how to fix it.
<cprov-lunch> persia: right, your comment on that bug tends to agree with the current behaviour, towards orig.tar.gz coherency with ubuntu
<cprov-lunch> persia: that I think is consensus, right ?
<persia> I don't think there is consensus.
<cprov-lunch> persia: the version blacklisting is the part that causes disagreement, IMHO
<persia> Well, there's people who complain about the version blacklisting, and then there's people who complain about e.g. package signing.
<ahasenack> any particular reason why a failed build also gets blacklisted? It's not like it was ever downloaded and installed: it didn't even build
<persia> I don't think it's best fixed on a per-bug level.  I think it needs a philosophical decision as to which use case to support, or to continue to straddle this boundary.
<persia> ahasenack, The source package was published.
<ahasenack> persia: does it have to be published in this case?
<cprov-lunch> persia: we agree on this, it's way wider the fixing each isolated bug.
<persia> ahasenack, Yes, because it needs to be published to be passed to the buildds.  It's part of the architecture of Soyuz.
<ahasenack> ok
<cprov-lunch> persia: oops, not literally, the source doesn't have to be in the repository to be built.
<persia> Right.  Last time we discussed this (Maybe August or early September), you thought it might come up in some of the LP meetings scheduled.  If it hasn't, that's fine.  I mostly just wanted to check :)
<persia> ahasenack, Trust cprov.  He actually knows this stuff.  I'm just a user.
<ahasenack> persia: :)
<cprov-lunch> persia: it was discussed many times since PPA are out, no decision was made, because it seems to run fine for the vast majority of weekend-users
<cprov-lunch> persia: we have only few problematic project-based PPA which suffer from this problem.
<persia> cprov-lunch, Right.  It's "good enough" for most things, but annoying for anyone who wants to use it heavily.
<cprov-lunch> persia: yes, we can say that.
<persia> cprov-lunch, Personally, I don't think that's necessarily bad, as long as it's by design.
<cprov-lunch> tacking the problem w/o disrupting the rest of the users is mandatory at this point
<persia> It's like getting a mid-range digital camera.  Not as light and portable as a pocket camera.  Not as featurefull as an SLR.  Still, the most popular range.
<persia> On the other hand, if that is the decision, it would be good to determine that, and intentionally wontfix the bugs for users who want a review system or want a real publishing system for their own distro.
<cprov-lunch> persia: good example, but kind of depreciate what we want to be the best/easiest/fastest pkg management system out there, right ?
<persia> cprov-lunch, Well, it's a matter of picking segment.  If you want to be good for test-build/review stuff, you need to be flexible enough that you're unsafe for repository work.  If you want to offer repos that people can trust, you're unsuitable for test-build/review.  Currently, it's somewhere in-between.
<persia> For the same reason you can't put a dSLR in your pocket easily.
<cprov-lunch> :)
<cprov-lunch> persia: well, currently PPA have very consistent repositories & history (versions are blacklisted and the repo is never ovewritten)
<persia> One option we discussed previously was letting users select signed/strict vs. unsigned/loose for each PPA, but it was suggested that this option would be confusing, and that there would be no way to safely change it later.
<flacoste> CoMp4c7: how would i recognize your localhost instance using referer in my log
<flacoste> CoMp4c7: also i find it very strange, i don't seem to see any connections for the check_authentication call
<cprov-lunch> persia: once we release per-PPA repo signatures it will be state-of-art for the latter use-case
<persia> For hosting a derivative distro?
<CoMp4c7> flacoste: http://localhost/~arnau/freevial
<flacoste> CoMp4c7: if I grep for "http://db.freevial.org" referral on login.launchpad.net,  I only see requests for the initial +openid page
<cprov-lunch> persia: yes, why not ?
<flacoste> CoMp4c7: did you made any requests today from it?
<CoMp4c7> yes
<persia> cprov-lunch, I thought there were a few other bugs around that, but if that's the plan, it's a sensible direction.
<CoMp4c7> i discovered that there are the same problem with claimid.com
<CoMp4c7> i think it is a problem of the server
<persia> cprov-lunch, Fixing the remaining little bits will probably even more annoy the test-build users, but they ought be using local build farms anyway (it's annoying when three people upload OOo at once, for example).
<flacoste> CoMp4c7: ok, I cannot see anything interesting in the logs, unfortunately
<persia> cprov-lunch, Also, it will probably end up being slightly more "complex" due to the key management systems, etc., although with good docs this shouldn't matter too much.
<cprov-lunch> persia: one key per PPA, makes the whole dance simpler.
<persia> Anything else is madness.
<flacoste> CoMp4c7: ok, this is very weird
<cprov-lunch> persia: extra signatures can be made on top of the signing key to increase trust.
<persia> cprov-lunch, Is the plan to use the user's email, or a constructed email for signing?
<cprov-lunch> persia: if the user really cares about sane distribution of his packages
<persia> So if I do a keyserver search for "Emmet Hikory", would I find my PPA key?
<CoMp4c7> flacoste: do you have any idea about where could be the problem?
<flacoste> CoMp4c7: i just tried again and the URL of the page returned by launchpad - that displays the error - do contain a succesful auth reply
<flacoste> CoMp4c7:
<flacoste> http://db.freevial.org/auth.php?mode=continue&janrain_nonce=2008-11-18T19%3A35%3A42ZbAvTGr&openid.assoc_handle=%7BHMAC-SHA1%7D%7B49231912%7D%7BTpfGdQ%3D%3D%7D&openid.claimed_id=https%3A%2F%2Flogin.launchpad.net%2F%2Bid%2FcDYAwTe&openid.identity=https%3A%2F%2Flogin.launchpad.net%2F%2Bid%2FcDYAwTe&openid.mode=id_res&openid.ns=http%3A%2F%2Fspecs.openid.net%2Fauth%2F2.0&openid.ns.sreg=http%3A%2F%2Fopenid.net%2Fextensions%2Fsreg%2F1.1&openid.
<flacoste> op_endpoint=https%3A%2F%2Flogin.launchpad.net%2F%2Bopenid&openid.response_nonce=2008-11-18T19%3A35%3A46Z7Hj4Ht&openid.return_to=http%3A%2F%2Fdb.freevial.org%3A80%2Fauth.php%3Fmode%3Dcontinue%26janrain_nonce%3D2008-11-18T19%253A35%253A42ZbAvTGr&openid.sig=bC03e6utz%2FsL0gNQJyJdKvNDTro%3D&openid.signed=assoc_handle%2Cclaimed_id%2Cidentity%2Cmode%2Cns%2Cns.sreg%2Cop_endpoint%2Cresponse_nonce%2Creturn_to%2Csigned%2Csreg.nickname&openid.sreg.
<cprov-lunch> persia: key email & comment will be deliberately blank
<flacoste> nickname=flacoste
<persia> cprov-lunch, And name?
<flacoste> CoMp4c7: so it's in the processing of that URL that the error message is generated
<cprov-lunch> persia: name will be the ppa title + 'signing key'
<persia> So something like "Emmet Hikory's PPA signing key" ?
<flacoste> CoMp4c7: the error message talks about check_authentication failing, but I know for sure that no such request has been made to Launchpad
<cprov-lunch> persia: yup
<flacoste> CoMp4c7: since only request is ever made (check_authentication implies that your server would send another request to Launchpad to validate the signature provided in the above URL)
<flacoste> only one request, i mean
<CoMp4c7> flacoste: it could be a encoding problem, but I double check that...
<flacoste> CoMp4c7: what encoding problem?
<CoMp4c7> flacoste: when apache sends parameters to php, i read about a problem with mod_encoding, for example
<persia> cprov-lunch, In that case, it sounds like you've made the decision, which is good.  I'd recommend going through and wontfixing bugs like 263301 with a note that PPAs are designed for distribution, and while they can be used to test-build or for review, it is the user's responsiblity to take appropriate care with versioning, package names, etc.
<flacoste> CoMp4c7: could be a session problem
<flacoste> CoMp4c7: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~freevial/freevial/php-db-edit/annotate/74?file_id=consumer.php-20080707143651-baxjp2psoha1dy4y-10 line 425
<cprov-lunch> persia: thanks for the encouragement, let me find my "hit-me" helmet and go on with that.
<lamalex> hey guys, can anyone tell me how to make a member an administrator of a team/project?
<CoMp4c7> flacoste: what I haven't tested yet if the store is set up correctly
<CoMp4c7> and could be related with this
<persia> cprov-lunch, No problem.  As I said before, it's not important to me which was chosen, but I thought the fence-straddling while leaving all the bugs open was a bad course to follow.
<beuno> lamalex, go to the team's page, go to "Show all members", and edit him to being an admin
<cprov-lunch> persia: thinking for a sometime, while fixing other problems, might have helped.
<persia> cprov-lunch, Understood :)  It's great that you've gotten to the point where this becomes a sensible decision.
<lamalex> beuno: edit them how?
<lamalex> i dont see the option anywhere
<flacoste> CoMp4c7: in the file I pointed you at, look at 964
<lamalex> ah nevermind
<flacoste> CoMp4c7: that's where it's failing, for some reasons it seems that it doesn't know about the association
<flacoste> CoMp4c7: do you have a database available? you could change store implementation
<beuno> lamalex, do you have permissions to do so?
<lamalex> yah, i found it, thanks
<flacoste> CoMp4c7: there is a MySQL/PostgreSQL store implementation provided
<cprov-lunch> persia: I can only thank you for the help in make is 'sensible'.
<flacoste> CoMp4c7: or SQLiteStore
<persia> cprov-lunch, Feel free to ask me for a rant anytime.  If I don't have one stored up, I'll generate one.
<flacoste> CoMp4c7: do you know if your server is a single host or a server farm?
<CoMp4c7> flacoste: app uses a mysql database
<flacoste> CoMp4c7: I suggest you switch to the MySQLStore implementation, that should be safer
<flacoste> just in case, /tmp isn't shared across the different servers
<CoMp4c7> flacoste: and faster
<CoMp4c7> i will try that
<flacoste> CoMp4c7: let me know if this solves your problem
<CoMp4c7> php also saves Sessions to tmp
<persia> NCommander, https://launchpad.net/debomatic
<persia> ahasenack, Actually, you might find that link useful as well.
<ahasenack> persia: hehe, was just checking it out, you mentioned deb-o-matic just a little time ago
<ahasenack> persia: have you used it?
<persia> ahasenack, I've used it, but not hosted it.  No idea about the administration.  As a user, you just upload stuff, and it gets built, which is handy.
<ahasenack> ok
<cprov-lunch> persia: ehe, you are a priceless resource to us. We should send you LP t-shirts ;)
<persia> cprov-lunch, I'm priceless when I recommend competing build-farm software?  I should start promoting trac here: I bet I'd get a tie pin :)
<kiko> cprov-lunch, and we can; just talk to marianna and she'll arrange. that is as soon as he stops promoting trac!!
 * persia stops promoting trac
<cprov-lunch> persia: see, you were doing well until you mentioned trac :)
<cprov-lunch> persia: btw, suggesting pbuilder to users is the right thing to do, ubuntu developers do use it extensively before uploading sources, it's ideal for learning. I don't see any problem with that.
<beuno> cprov-lunch, I've been thinking if there's anything we can do on the UI that will make it more clearly that even after deleting a package, that "namespace" is used.
<persia> actually, many of us use sbuild, for closer similarity to the buildds.
<beuno> maybe saying very clearly that the user has to upload a version above X?
<persia> If the buildd chroots were easily available for download, we'd be based off those.
<cprov-lunch> beuno: deleted/superseded packages are listed with the appropriate filter. Are you thinking in something else ?
<beuno> cprov-lunch, do you have a quick link to where I can see how that looks now?
<cprov-lunch> beuno: source and binaries (if any) are available from librarian, all the metadata is listed, etc.
<cprov-lunch> beuno: go to a heavy PPA, let me find one.
<beuno> cprov-lunch, I'm thinking more along the lines of visually displaying to the owner of the PPA above *what* version they can upload from
<beuno> so you don't have to dig into history, it's something that's right there on the main page
<cprov-lunch> beuno: uhm, ISWYM, interesting
<cprov-lunch> beuno: try https://edge.launchpad.net/~fta/+archive
<persia> It's probably worth having a link to a precise description of the ordering of versions, so that users aren't confused by things like the odd behaviour of ~ or issues with things to the left or right of the final -
<cprov-lunch> beuno: https://edge.launchpad.net/~fta/+archive?field.name_filter=&field.status_filter=any results grouped by distroseries and sourcepackagename, possibly
<beuno> cprov-lunch, so, if a user deletes a package, it wouldn't show up on that list anymore, right?
 * fta ?
<beuno> on +archive
<beuno> fta, nevermind, you're just a good example  :)
<cprov-lunch> beuno: it does, with 'any' or 'superseded' filter
<cprov-lunch> beuno: it's 'all there', literally.
<beuno> cprov-lunch, so if you upload a package, and then delete it, it still shows up?
<cprov-lunch> beuno: yes, as 'deleted'.
<beuno> cprov-lunch, so maybe we could show, just to the owner, greater than what versions of the packages they have to upload
<beuno> does that sound reasonable, or an overkill?
<cprov-lunch> beuno: sounded overkill
<persia> beuno, Do you think most users understand the rules well enough to benefit from greater highlighting?  I think most of the complaints are from folk who aren't using PPAs for distribution.
<cprov-lunch> beuno: which problem would we be solving in this case ?
<beuno> cprov-lunch, the bug where poeple have to hit their heads against re-uploading the same version after deleting it
<beuno> making it clearer that they can't in advance
<cprov-lunch> beuno: I'm afraid about trying to get too much information in a single page, the hidden area below each row is already a mystery for most users.
<beuno> persia, well, they kinda ahve to know about versions, don't they?  As they specify them everywhere on the packaging
<beuno> this may be just rambling on my part
<persia> beuno, Well, if they use dh_make or follow one of the many guides blindly, they probably don't understand why they are using -1, or why that might not be the best choice.
<cprov-lunch> beuno: the solution is the search for 'foo' in 'any' status, making that somehow intuitive
<persia> beuno, Also, I think most people don't necessarily understand that they are distributing something in a formal way, or that it's different from uploading to some web space.  The concept of "upload to replace" is fairly widespread.
<beuno> yeah, that's kinda what I want to solve I think
<beuno> try and convey that more clearly on the UI
<beuno> that they're actually distributing it
<cprov-lunch> good point, but which UI artifact would make it clearer ?
<beuno> quite a few
<persia> That might be part of the activate-PPA interface.  Notify the user that they are creating an distribution archive for delivery to end-users, etc.
<beuno> I think we should have a few beers at UDS  :)
<beuno> all 3 of us
<cprov-lunch> beuno: :)
<CoMp4c7> flacoste: i think i know why I get that error
<flacoste> CoMp4c7: do tell me!
<CoMp4c7> flacoste: no association file is created
<flacoste> and why is that?
<flacoste> i thought FileStore should handle that
<CoMp4c7> I don't know
<CoMp4c7> when I login to claimid, the file is set up
<CoMp4c7> but when login to launchpad not
<cprov-lunch> beuno, persia: maybe showing how many users have downloaded PPA packages might make that clear. "if you screw 1000 users will bug you."
<cprov-lunch> also, not in that negative way.
<persia> cprov-lunch, No, because then the person who has a count of zero will want to know why they can't have an exception.
<flacoste> CoMp4c7: are you sure you are hitting the same host everytime?
<flacoste> CoMp4c7: there might be multiple /tmp
<cprov-lunch> persia: zero users is very likely to be a temporary status.
<flacoste> that's why I suggested using MySQLStore
<CoMp4c7> now i have set up the filestore in home
<CoMp4c7> there was a problem with mysql, that is why i didnt test it
<CoMp4c7> I have to go out
<cprov-lunch> persia: they will also see other PPAs heavily used and will want to reach the same status.
<CoMp4c7> thank you very much
<persia> cprov-lunch, Sure, but it probably makes sense to provide a counter once it's hit some threshold (e.g. 100).  Before that, just providing a generic warning avoids the case where people want exceptions.
<cprov-lunch> persia: right, false impression of unimportance. Anyway, just a crazy idea, we are not near the PPA-statistic task :(
<persia> cprov-lunch, Yeah well.  Next month.
<RainCT> btw, can you guys remove feedback requests from blueprints? (https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-live-chat-support/+spec/ubuntu-live-chat-support got several support requests :P)
<lamalex> hey guys, anyone around? i've got a question.  I'm trying to make a subproject, but my parent project isn't showing up in the list. Do I need to do anything special to flag a parent project?
<lamalex> ahh just saw this https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/149338
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 149338 in launchpad-registry "Project Group field and search widget on project registration page need to be better explained" [Undecided,Triaged]
<lamalex> is there anyone here who can create a project group?
 * paolettopn e' away (ciao a tutti!)
<Rocket2DMn> Are there any LP admins available?  The user maurizio-live filed a bunch of garbage bugs which I have closed.  Further action may need to be taken to ban the user.
<beuno> Rocket2DMn, his account as already been suspended
<beuno> thanks for letting us know
<Rocket2DMn> cool, thank you beuno
<wgrant> Ah, it's good to see the Launchpad dev becoming a real wiki, with the clutter and inconsistent namespacing that normally plagues them...
<lamalex> ha
<lamalex> any LP admins around can help me with https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/51810
<jml> lamalex: not right now. kiko's the one who needs to deal with that.
<lamalex> ok np, that bug should be dealt with though, it's very unclear that LP needs to make a project group
 * wgrant checks the new bug page UI on staging, and wonders why it is offering a link to mark this bug as a duplicate when the next bit of text on the page shows that it can't be done.
<wgrant> beuno: ^^
<beuno> wgrant, the short answer is "it's complicated"
<beuno> and we're working on a deeper solution
<wgrant> beuno: And why does the security flag hide behind a link which doesn't mention security?
<wgrant> And people continue to break the actions menus...
<wgrant> Bug actions menus on staging now have an item labelled 'change', and another labelled ''. Lovely.
#launchpad 2008-11-19
<meoblast001> hi
<meoblast001> how do you delete a project
<spm> meoblast001: ask nicely? Preferably with the project named :-)
<spiv> meoblast001: File a question at https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad I think
<NCommander> second question
<spiv> Or ask spm :)
<NCommander> What voodoo do I need to do to make something leave the Failed to Upload status?
<meoblast001> i created a project but never had the resources to complete it
<meoblast001> so im ending it
<NCommander> oh
<NCommander> Crap
<NCommander> I see why this is failing to upload
<spm> NCommander: ? any clues for assisting others, you'd be willing to share? :-)
<NCommander> Well
<NCommander> The upshot is I broke Soyuz
<NCommander> 2008-11-18 23:52:01 WARNING 	libfbclient2_2.0.4.13130-1.ds1-4ubuntu1_amd64.deb: Version older than that in the archive. 2.0.4.13130-1.ds1-4ubuntu1 <= 2.1.0.17798-0.ds2-1
<NCommander> :-)
<spm> Impressive. Most Impressive. :-)
<NCommander> Man, when I break something, I do it in style :-)
<spm> NCommander: ??? I didn't know you were a windows sysadmin? :-P
<Ursinha> lol
 * NCommander remembers when he broke the exchange server
<NCommander> It's not my fault the contracters built such a shoddy rack
<NCommander> :-/
 * spm accuses - you tried to send email via exchange didn't you. tsk tsk tsk.
<NCommander> No
<NCommander> I put the server on a new rack
<NCommander> WHich didn't support the wait
<NCommander> weight
<NCommander> and the server crashed
<NCommander> To the ground
<spm> WaHooo
<NCommander> Yeah
<NCommander> I think we ended up install Exchange on an old P2 until we could get a replacement server ....
<spm> used to "loosely" support an exchange box running on dec alpha - that was... different.
<NCommander> I have a IBM RS/6000 that runs Windows NT PowerPC 4
<NCommander> With Exchange 4.0
<spm> masochist?
<NCommander> yeah
<NCommander> It's running AIX now
<spm> meoblast001: is removed
<meoblast001> k thanx
<meoblast001> who is spm? a mod?
<meoblast001> or is it mark shuttleworth =P
<wgrant> A god.
<wgrant> ie. a LOSA
<spm> meoblast001: No not mark. Launchpad sysadmin.
<meoblast001> whats a sysadmin
<spm> wgrant: :-)
<Ursinha> meoblast001, spm is our ultraintelligent bot
<meoblast001> oh lol
<meoblast001> i dont know who to believe
<spm> Ursinha: when I tink I something suitably rude to respond with I shall. :-P
<meoblast001> spm or Ursinha
<meoblast001> quit playing mind games on me
<Ursinha> spm, lol
<spm> Ursinha: she's nicer
<meoblast001> spm: bot
<Ursinha> meoblast001, sorry :) spm is a Launchpad admin
<meoblast001> hes not a ot
<wgrant> But spm is Australian...
<meoblast001> he would have responded by now
<spm> meoblast001: I have a random delay loop built in to mess with folks heads - and bad spellingerer as well
 * wgrant SIGTERMs spm.
<spm> And a trained army of Drop Bears
 * meoblast001 segfaults
<wgrant> Ooh, harsh.
<spm> I am impervious to sigterms - for i am the PID 1
<meoblast001> wgrant: your pipe connected to the wrong app.. me
<meoblast001> spm: kernel?
 * meoblast001 forces spm to kernel panic
<wgrant> spm: One can kill init fine!
<meoblast001> ahh
<meoblast001> init
<meoblast001> sudo cp /init.rd /dev/dsp
<spm> wgrant: we had this discussion elsewhere earlier today - my background is more solaris - and on solaris, you can't :-)
<wgrant> spm: Ah. Solaris. Ew. At least IRIX is now gone from uni, but Solaris still abounds...
<meoblast001> spm: did you delete my ssh key?
<spm> meoblast001: ? No
<meoblast001> ok lol
<meoblast001> i figured out the problem
<lamalex> can I push to a personal branch that's not associated with a project?
<beuno> lamalex, sure, that's what +junk is for
<lamalex> how do I do that?
<lamalex> bzr push lp:~alexlauni/junk doesn't work
<Ursinha> lamalex, it's +junk
<Ursinha> :)
<jml> lamalex: bzr push lp:~foo/+junk/branch-name
<lamalex> thanks
<lamalex> thanks a lot!
<Ursinha> :D
<mrooney> Are there any statistics kept on release download counts for LP projects?
<mrooney> It seems potentially really useful to see if a project is becoming more or less popular over releases, as well as which release format is most popular if there are multiple for each version
<Ryan52> does launchpad support any way of me personally sorting bugs? so, like categorizing them in my own way? or marking certain bugs as ones I am interested in, but not subscribing and not assigning them?
<persia> Ryan52, subscribing is the best way to mark bugs in which you have an interest.  Doing so is best handled with mail filters.
<persia> There's also a facility to subscribe to bugs for a project, for a distro (generally a bad idea), or for a package in a distro.
<persia> I don't know if that might help.
<Ryan52> okay, thanks.
<mwhudson> no, and there is a bug for it
<wgrant> Ermmm.
<wgrant> Disabling that account didn't work.
<wgrant> He's filing lots and lots of bugs filled with crap.
<wgrant> And then marking them all private.
<wgrant> WTF
<persia> Well, private bugs can't be closed by annoying busybodies, you see...
<wgrant> spm: Kill maurizio-live again, pllllease.
<spm> wgrant: was just logging in to do so....
<wgrant> persia: Except that they were made private after the filing, so have hundreds of people subscribed.
<wgrant> spm: Thanks.
<persia> wgrant, Ah.
<wgrant> I can only see them against Ubuntu, but I saw some against Malone earlier; they're private now.
<spm> wgrant: launchpad bugs & Ubuntu
<wgrant> spm: aha.
<wgrant> He seems to be staying dead.
<spm> One prefers the use of the light touch. Sometimes, the sledgehammer is more appropriate. One guess.
<spm> Either way I also sent an email asking to 'Please stop'
<wgrant> I'm still unable to make sense of those bugs.
<spm> they look like spam to me
<spm> rather... a failed attempt at spamming
<wgrant> Perhaps.
<Hobbsee> i wish projects could be removed from bugs.
<Hobbsee> or this ranting guy would go away.
<Hobbsee> either wya
<binarymutant> why doesn't the ubuntu bug tracking system automatically email debian's bug tracking system?
<Hobbsee> binarymutant: have you *seen* the quality of a lot of ubuntu bugs lately?
<Hobbsee> binarymutant: debian would go nuts (and justifiably so) at being asked to support something that is based on their stuff, but has a whole lot of changes, and where users can't even file decent bugs,and can't refrain from ranting on the bug tracker.
<binarymutant> Hobbsee: don't they already have that though?
<Hobbsee> binarymutant: have which?  oh, the ranting on the bugtracker?
<Hobbsee> yes, but that's usually technical ranting - not "this hasn't been fixed.  ZOMG UBUNTU SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!ELEVENTYONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" ranting
<binarymutant> Ubuntu could add a ubuntu header to it
<Hobbsee> a lot of debian people seem to look at launchpad anyway
<Hobbsee> and stuff does get manually filed back
<Hobbsee> i do think they're planning something in regard to it, that you'll be able to sanely send bugs upstream.
<binarymutant> well that's good, I was just wondering since it looks like utnuubu looks deserted
<Hobbsee> i think that itself is, yes
<binarymutant> thanks for the info Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> binarymutant: you're welcome
<cjwatson> I tried to register a rootskel-gtk project (matching a Debian package by the same name for which I want to get a code import) and got this message: "The name 'rootskel-gtk' has been blocked by the Launchpad administrators".
<cjwatson> Can somebody tell me why, please?
<Spads> cjwatson: don't launchpad as root, you HACKER
<cjwatson> hah
<ia> hello, everybody. if i create my own branch in launchpad, it have bzr address: lp:~name/+junk/projectname. But how can i create project with address lp:projectname?
<cjwatson> ia: push it to lp:~name/projectname/branchname and then visit code.launchpad.net/projectname where there should be a link to select a branch to be the development focus, assuming that you have appropriate privileges in projectname (e.g. you created the project)
<ia> cjwatson: oh, thanks you. i'll try.
* gmb changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net/ | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Need help? Community help contact: gmb
<fta2> hi, still no fix for the kernel too old bug in PPA/jaunty ?
<fta2> i'm stuck because of this, an ETA would be nice
<cprov-lunch> fta2: have you talks to elmo or infinity already ?
<fta2> i asked here a few times already
<fta2> elmo, ^^ ?
<soren> I noticed a glibc upload that should fix it, but it probably needs special love and care to get it installed in the jaunty ppa buildd's.
* gmb changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net/ | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Need help? Community help contact: -#
* gmb changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net/ | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Need help? Community help contact: -
<gmb> I fail at IRC.
 * cody-somerville pets gmb.
<NCommander> Bug #300000 been filed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 300000 in libgtk2-perl "FTBFS fix for libgtk2-perl" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/300000
<Ursinha> hahahaha
<Ursinha> just announced that in another channel
 * NCommander is proud
<NCommander> I got it :-)
<fta> is https://edge.launchpad.net/chromium-project supposed to be a super project ?? i can't attach sub projects to it... lp says it's invalid
<fta> nm, i thought my https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/51556 was already solved, it's not
<fta> kiko-fud, ^^
<andrea-bs> fta: chromium-project is not a superproject: it has series and milestones
<fta> andrea-bs, i requested it to be turned into a super project. see the question above. what should i do then ?
<andrea-bs> fta: project groups are created from scratch, see https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+faq/210
<andrea-bs> fta: you should ask to rename chromium-project and then ask to create a project group with this name
<fta> hm; ok. i didn't create it initially. will do what you just said. thanks.
<fta> andrea-bs, once the old project is gone, should i do anything special when i create the new one ?
<andrea-bs> fta: no, you shouldn't
<andrea-bs> fta: when the new super project will be set up you'll be able to link sub project by yourself
<fta> andrea-bs, yep, i've already linked a few other projects to the mozilla super-project. I'm not sure i understand what is wrong with current one then... just series and milestones?
<andrea-bs> fta: do you want to link a project to more than one super project?
<fta> andrea-bs, i have a bunch of chromium-* that i want to link to chromium-project
<andrea-bs> fta: do you want to link them both to chromium-project and mozilla or just to chromium?
<fta> andrea-bs, no, sorry, mozilla is unrelated, forget about it ;)
<andrea-bs> fta: thanks; the problem is that chromium-project is currently a "simple" project and not a super project
<andrea-bs> fta: and simple projects can't be converted to project groups
<andrea-bs> fta: because project groups are created only from scratch
<fta> andrea-bs, i can't recreate it myself then ?
<andrea-bs> fta: unfortunately no: project groups can be created only by launchpad admins
<andrea-bs> fta: this is why you should file a new question
<fta> andrea-bs, ok, clear,
<fta> andrea-bs, i've updated https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/51556
<andrea-bs> fta: I'm sorry but now I have to go :(
<fta> andrea-bs, np
<fta> too late
<Flimm> The build of my package failed, I uploaded a fixed source package and nothing has happened
<Flimm> Do I have to click retry build?
<Flimm> (I clicked it, see what happens, I hope it doesn't try to rebuild the flawed source package)
<geser> Flimm: no, the new upload should build automatically
<beuno> Flimm, how long ago was this?
<beuno> minutes?
<beuno> it can take a bit
<Flimm> Got a rejection email, because the source package was different.
<Flimm> "File epidermis_0.2-0ubuntu0.tar.gz already exists in PPA for David D Lowe, but uploaded version has different contents"
<Flimm> Do I have to delete the package to rebuild from a fixed source package?
 * beuno pokes cprov-lunch 
<geser> Flimm: have you increased the version/revision?
<cprov> Flimm: you have repackaged the orig.tar.gz
<cprov> Flimm: is that a ubuntu package ?
<Flimm> No, I didn't change the version number, I just changed the source package
<Flimm> Package for a project not in Ubuntu
<cprov> Flimm: what's your PPA ?
<cprov> url, I mean
<Flimm> https://launchpad.net/~flimm/+archive
<Flimm> http://ppa.launchpad.net/flimm/ubuntu
<cprov> Flimm: oh, it's not a orig, I'm going blind.
<cprov> Flimm: you already have that version published in your PPA.
<Flimm> Not 0.2, the build failed
<cprov> Flimm: the rejection message is somewhat misleading for native packages.
<cprov> Flimm: doesn't matter, the source version is blacklisted.
<cprov> Flimm: you have to increase the version again.
<Flimm> 0.2-0ubuntu1 ?
<cprov> Flimm: yes, that will work.
<Flimm> OK, thanks
<cprov> Flimm: and it's also sane according the ubuntu/debian policy, btw.
<Flimm> I'm new to packaging, is the .orig.tar.gz called the source package, or is the _source.changes called that?
<Flimm> Well it built, but I can't find the deb
<beuno> Flimm, give it a bit  :)
<Flimm> beuno: :) I can wait.
<Flimm> it just seems strange that it's marked as built and published, but still no deb.
<beuno> Flimm, I have a bug filed for the impacient, bug 283960
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 283960 in soyuz "PPA page should re-assure the user that their binary packages are being published" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/283960
<Flimm> Aha! It's there now!
<Flimm> Thanks ubottu, I'll go mark myself as affected.
<beuno> yeah, you know what they say, a watched pot...
* spm changed the topic of #launchpad to: Launchpad is going down from 22:00 UTC until 23:59 UTC for a code update | https://launchpad.net/ | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Need help? Community help contact: -
<JontheEchidna> This user seems to be spamming LP: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~rutadeevacuacion
<JontheEchidna> maybe LP going down for maintainence will make him stop ;-)
<beuno> JontheEchidna, if not, mthaddon will  :)
<JontheEchidna> hehe
<JontheEchidna> anyway, keep on rocking!
* beuno changed the topic of #launchpad to: Launchpad is down from until 23:59 UTC for a code update | https://launchpad.net/ | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Need help? Community help contact: -
<savvas> darn, and I was about to mark a bug that has an upstream fix
<LarstiQ> beuno: from what?
<LarstiQ> beuno: stil 22:00?
<beuno> LarstiQ, from a while ago  ;)
<LarstiQ> beuno: the topic reads weirdly :P
<beuno> LarstiQ,
<beuno> ah
* beuno changed the topic of #launchpad to: Launchpad is down until 23:59 UTC for a code update | https://launchpad.net/ | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Need help? Community help contact: -
<beuno> thanks :)
<pygi> anyone who's not sleeping here? :)
<beuno> nobody sleeps in the launchpad team
<beuno> ever
<spm> beuno: I suspect you're just projecting yourself and Ursinha :-P
<beuno> spm, probably. But I have everyone's phone #, so I just make that assumption  :)
<pygi> beuno, I had a question then :)
<pygi> could I pm?
<beuno> pygi, sure
<spm> beuno: ... I see.... /me goes to add a block on all calls from South America
<beuno> :)
<epsy> what just happened at the launchpad code atom feeds?
<beuno> epsy, launchpad is down
<epsy> :o
<beuno> and the feeds went with it
<beuno> upgrading
<beuno> new shiny things
<epsy> hehe
<savvas> hm.. perhaps the feeds should be available when the code is updated :p
<epsy> any info on the "nw shiny" things?
<beuno> epsy, soon enough
<beuno> mrevell will unleash those
<epsy> oh, OpenID, i see
 * epsy would have liked to see Global ID, but well, nvm :)
<epsy> how is the opensourcing roadway going?
<savvas> hm?
<epsy> cannonical has promised to release launchpad by feb. 2009 or so, if i remember correctly
<epsy> i'm seeing many people keeping themselves away from lp just because it's not free software
<Hobbsee> epsy: july - oscon, iirc.
<jkakar> FYI, https://launchpad.net just took ~2 minutes to load.
<Hobbsee> and i believe they're open sourcing their private wiki currently, as a starting point.
<epsy> Hobbsee, ty!
<Hobbsee> jkakar: it's supposed to be down.
<epsy> their private wiki?
<epsy> didn't they use moinmoin?
<jkakar> Hobbsee: edge is responding.
<jkakar> https://edge.launchpad.net/bzr just took 59s to load here.
<Hobbsee> jkakar: /topic.  It's in the middle of an upgrade.
<jkakar> Hobbsee: Yes, I understand that.
<Hobbsee> epsy: they do, but they have help.launchpad.net, then another internal one, which is private.
<epsy> oh yeah, right
<jkakar> Hobbsee: It's supposed to display a static, "Hey, we're upgrading, come back later please." message.  I'm reporting that that isn't happening in case it's an issue that mthaddon or someone else might care about.
<Hobbsee> jkakar: oh, right.
<epsy> we're talking about the software to run it, not the actual content up there already?
<Hobbsee> epsy: for which?  the wiki, or launchpad itself?
<epsy> wiki
<jkakar> epsy: Content is being migrated from the private wiki to a public one.
<spm> jkakar: I'm just finishing up the final parts of the release now - so stuff should be coming back
<jkakar> spm: Okay, cool.
<mthaddon> should be back now
<jkakar> spm: Looks like https://edge.launchpad.net/bzr is loading faster here (~15s), so perhaps my timing was just "perfect". :)
<mthaddon> at least, the webapp servers
<savvas> jkakar: try it again tomorrow, when people start crawling launchpad again ;)
<cjwatson> epsy: Hobbsee means the content previously on a private wiki
<Hobbsee> yes, that, thanks :)
* spm changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net/ | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Need help? Community help contact: -
#launchpad 2008-11-20
<kalosaurusrex1> Can someone please either tell me how to remove a bug watch, or remove the bug watch for this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/hplip/+bug/49102 thanks.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 49102 in ubuntu "all not-HP-hpijs printers missing" [Medium,Fix released]
<kalosaurusrex1> it wont let me close it, which I'd like to do.
<Hobbsee> hmm.  You can change it
<Hobbsee> i don't think you can close it though
<beuno> kalosaurusrex1, have you tried clicking on the edit button on the right portlet?
<beuno> and maybe leaving the UR: blank?
<Hobbsee> beuno: doesn't work.
<kalosaurusrex1> yeah i tried that, and it gave me an error.
<beuno> ah
<kalosaurusrex1> darn thing. lol
<beuno> sounds like a bug to me
<Hobbsee> beuno: that would be https://bugs.launchpad.net/malone/+bug/91768
<kalosaurusrex1> okay I'll file a bug then?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 91768 in malone "It's not possible to remove a bugwatch from a product that started using Launchpad as its bugtracker." [Undecided,Confirmed]
<kalosaurusrex1> oh
<Hobbsee> and bug 3140, which shows how long it's been around.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 3140 in malone "Bug watches can't be removed" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/3140
<kiko-zzz> it's not bug 3140.
<kiko-zzz> it's a different bug.
<Hobbsee> oh, hmm.  maybe it isn't
<beuno> ah
 * Hobbsee wonders how it's a different bug.
<kiko-zzz> the bug is that hplip was marked as not-using-LP, the bug watch was added, and then it was marked as using-LP-officially.
<Hobbsee> oh, right
<Hobbsee> oh, that bugwatch.  I guessed it was the other bugwatch, for some reason.
<kiko-zzz> and you can remove bugwatches
<Hobbsee> how?
<kiko-zzz> by editing them and saying "delete"
<kiko-zzz> kalosaurusrex1, beuno: it's fixed.
<kalosaurusrex1> so should I do something more? lol
<kalosaurusrex1> okay great thanks guys :)
<kiko-zzz> kalosaurusrex1, you can file a bug, though it's a corner case that might not be worth considering since it's so easy to work around.
<Hobbsee> ah.  'delete'.  I didn't guess that.
<kiko-zzz> Hobbsee, it needs to be unlinked from a bugtask though. that is mysterious.
<kiko-zzz> anyway, truly zzzing.
<Hobbsee> kiko-zzz: ahhh.
<kalosaurusrex1> kiko-zzz: okay that's cool
<beuno> kiko-zzz, night
<kiko-zzz> kalosaurusrex1, you can mark the HPLIP bug as invalid or whatever now, too since it's not really your bug, right :)
<kalosaurusrex1> yeah thanks :)
<kalosaurusrex1> thanks you guys!
<wgrant> spm: That guy from yesterday seems to have another account now...
<spm> wgrant: which account this time? I was zotting another late last night
<wgrant> spm: rutadeevacuacion
<wgrant> Note the display name is the same email address.
<wgrant> Though I'm not sure how the old account had its display name changed, when it was deactivated...
<spm> wgrant: is a different account - same person by implication
<wgrant> spm: I mean the old maurizio-live account now has an email address as the display name. It didn't 24 hours ago.
<spm> wgrant: Now if *I* was karma whoring; I'd insist you create a Question before I disabled anything ;-)
<wgrant> Heh.
<spm> Ah I see what you mean. Interesting.
<wgrant> At least it's not as bad as that time where the account wouldn't stay dead.
<spm> :-)
<NCommander> hey wgrant
<NCommander> So who can I complain about openid to
<persia> NCommander, Currently, nobody is at the complaints reception desk.  You'd do better to either describe the specific issue here, in which case there may be discussion, to ask a question on answers.launchpad.net, or if you're sure, file a bug.
<NCommander> persia, no, its a complaint about their blog post
<NCommander> any system that is properly implementing OpenID customer can handle system changes
<NCommander> REVU explicately handles them and even updates its cache of data when it does
<persia> NCommander, You mean the "system name"?
<NCommander> yeah
<NCommander> OpenID states that the only thing promised to be static is the openid identifor
<persia> Well, the other end will get another name, so identity continuity is likely lost.
<NCommander> *identifier
<NCommander> No
<NCommander> OpenID senses a unqiue UID along with any other session records requests
<persia> When you change your LP account, the URL changes.  Isn't the URL the "openid identifier"?
<NCommander> That changes?
<NCommander> ....
 * NCommander facepalms
<NCommander> It didn't used to
<persia> Yep.  lpnet/~sonicmctails -> lpnet/~ncommander for example.
 * NCommander sighs
<NCommander> Oh well
 * persia doesn't know much about OpenID or LP internals, so may be mistaken
<NCommander> I guess ~sonicmctails will be a long lasting legacy
<persia> Well, it can change, but you'd need to change the expected identifier for the foreign systems.
<persia> Note "shouldn't" rather than "can't".  It's just a lot of work to change the name on *every* consumer.
<NCommander> I'll probably reduce LP to a miserable pile of exceptions if I tried it
<NCommander> I only ever used it with REVU :_)
<NCommander> I'm curious if the email addresses will properly change
<NCommander> Or if I need to beg elmo
<persia> Right, and REVU doesn't set permissions based on groups very cleanly, so you'd need to merge the accounts.
 * NCommander can just fix the permissions
<NCommander> <- *REVU Admin*
<persia> Well, that's Ubuntu-specific, but they can change on request.
<NCommander> Now the question is what do I change my ID to
<persia> Right, but as general advice, it's best not to change if you're using OpenID.
<NCommander> ok fair enough
<NCommander> It didn't used to do that
<NCommander> When I coded the openid glue for REVU, it didn't
<persia> That was beta :)
<NCommander> Aren't finals supposed to be less buggy than the final :-)
 * NCommander hears a gunshot
<persia> Well, it's debateable whether it's a bug.
<persia> I'd personally rather send "persia" than d395a060729ca9a1094a43bff603ee34 as an identity token.
<persia> However, in order to support me changing that (unlikely as it might be), and someone else then using "persia", I can't have both.
<persia> (leaving aside the frequency of md5sum hash collisions)
<Hobbsee> how long does https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/awn/+spec/awn-settings-must-die take for people to load, here?
<persia> By rough count, 23 seconds here.
<Hobbsee> ouch?
 * persia tries the same test with https://launchpad.net/
<persia> 8 seconds there, so I guess that counts as "ouch".
<Hobbsee> 3.564s?
<Hobbsee> persia: tried a dns query cacher?
 * persia should probably look into one of those
<persia> I have a local DNS server (about 3 meters away) that is supposed to do that though.
<Hobbsee> persia: I just did, and i'm getting it doubly fast, or so.  I've got a guide for it, if you do decide you want to (it's easy to set up)
<Hobbsee> ahh
 * Hobbsee keeps browsing around, marvelling at the fast launchpad.
 * persia is slow enough at doing anything that nearly any page load time in the 15-30s range is sufficient
<Hobbsee> heh
<wgrant> stub: Maybe you can convince people that Malone needs version tracking, so the Janitor *can* know that.
<stub> There has been discussion on that sort of thing for years (bug infestations and other terms) where a bug is linked to a version and we infer all the dependant distributions and packages that have that bug. But always vague and ends up in the too hard basket.
<wgrant> I recall discussions about it years ago being shot down, yes...
<persia> Which bug is this?  I'd like to subscribe.
<Mez> ew @ the new font...
<Mez> and er... how do I find out why I'm subscribed to a bug?
<wgrant> Mez: Find the bug. Check where you appear in the subscribers list.
<wgrant> If you're directly subscribed, hover over.
<wgrant> Actually...
<wgrant> Just check the footer of the bugmail.
<Mez> Apparently I subscribed myself? I know I didnt though.
<Mez> The new font is HORRID
<wgrant> Which new font?
<wgrant> Mez: If the subscription is older than about January, that data will be wrong.
<Mez> the bug was reported in november...
<wgrant> Which bug?
<Mez> for some reason, the new "sans-serif" font is made to a sorta courier-esque font
<Mez> bug 292850
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 292850 in launchpad-foundations "openid URL not shown on profile page" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/292850
<wgrant> Hmmm.
<Mez> I don't know - unless I'm being subscribed cause it's soemthing to do with openID and I expressed a major interest...
<wgrant> I still don't see a new font.
<jamesh_> Mez: if it is an indirect subscription, it would be under "Also notified"
<Mez> wgrant... *shrugs* might have been a system font change)
<Mez> jamesh: true :(
<wgrant> jamesh: Unless somebody made it private and public again.
<Mez> I know I didn't subscribe myself though.
<jamesh> wgrant: nothing about that in the log
<wgrant> Which they didn't.
<wgrant> Right.
 * Mez goes and checks mail log for first reply to this I got
<Mez> nope, the first email I got from the bug was 10 hours ago...
<Mez> I've never seen the bug before... and to be fair, I think this has happend on a couple of other bugs ... (they've been related to things I do though, KDE etc, so it could have been an auto-subscribe and I've just deleted)
<Mez> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/k3b/+bug/31768 <-- one of them that it says I subscribed to...
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 31768 in brasero "Ignores manually set burn speed" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<Mez> er, Launchpad OpenID should be available to LP Beta Testers - right?
<Mez> it seems that there is no longer OpenID for me :(
<jamesh> Mez: you mean https://login.launchpad.net/ doesn't work for you?
<kiko-zzz> Mez, have you tried using ~mez again? :)
<Mez> jamesh: I mean going to http://edge.launchpad.net/~mez doesn't give me an openid login link on my page.
<Mez> BUT, www.launchpad.net does
<wgrant> Mez: Logged in?
<Mez> yup
<Mez> one sec
<Mez> http://files.sourceguru.net/lp.png
<wgrant>   status confirmed
<wgrant> I see that too.
<wgrant> Could be deliberate, though.
<wgrant> Given that the new ID page is /people/+me...
<kiko-zzz> hmmm nooo
<kiko-zzz> weird.
<kiko-zzz> Mez, the openid URL does work regardless though in openid, right?
<Mez> kiko-zzz: probably... lol
<Mez> wgrant: you dont show it etiher?
<wgrant> Mez: Correct.
<jamesh> Mez: so, you can't use http://openidenabled.com/python-openid/trunk/examples/consumer/ ?
<jamesh> that one is a pretty good test for OpenID servers
<Mez> jamesh: I haven't tried the ID :D I was just checking whether the delgation was there (fixed in 7303, the one on edge is higher than that)
<wgrant> edge isn't delegating person pages.
<wgrant> So maybe OpenID is somewhat turned off there...
<Mez> jamesh: the delegated page I have setup works...
<Mez> wgrant: possibly... dunno... I just went to have a looksie to see that the bug I'd got my way with had been done right ;)
<Mez> jamesh, mind if I PM you ?
<Mez> or one of the other LP devvies who has some spare time on his/her hands
<kiko-zzz> Mez, I'm gonna send this in email to flacoste so he can read it and consider a fix as soon as he's up as there is a window for an update today
<jamesh> Mez: go for it
<wgrant> kiko-zzz: Doesn't edge track RF for the first half of the cycle anyway?
<jamesh> Mez: although I'm not on the LP team thest days, so wouldn't be the one to fix any problems
<kiko-zzz> wgrant, it does, but there can be "if edge" in the code
<Mez> what are you doing these days then james?
 * wgrant runs away.
<wgrant> dev.launchpad.net has *content*! Yay!
<kiko-zzz> wgrant, when you said "the new ID page is /people/+me" what did you mean?
<Hobbsee> ooh, content!
<e-jat> can administrator in launchpad team add another administrator in their launchpad team ?
<wgrant> e-jat: No, only the owner.
<e-jat> or must be the owner of the team ?
<e-jat> wgrant: thanks ..
 * Hobbsee wonders if the typos are on the internal wiki, too :P
<wgrant> kiko-zzz: Isn't the new standard OpenID 1.0 URL http://launchpad.net/~username?
<kiko-zzz> it is, but it isn't /people/+me (which redirects to that) :)
<wgrant> I meant people to be understanding and resolving /people/+me, sorry.
<Hobbsee> oh, openID's broken, it seems
<Hobbsee> is this intentional?
<wgrant> Hobbsee: What about it is broken?
<Hobbsee> oh, hmm, worked the second time
<Hobbsee> it looked like it had worked the first time, and logged me in, but then said something, which, unfortuantely, i don't remember what it was.
<Hobbsee> and are addresses like https://login.launchpad.net/+id/w4sdKwx supposed to be public?
<kiko-zzz> they are kinda irrelevant now
<Hobbsee> and who they belong to (matt revell)?
<kiko-zzz> we will announce the change today
<Hobbsee> oh, right
<Hobbsee> good :)
<wgrant> kiko-zzz: I already saw it on Planet.
<jamesh> kiko-zzz: those addresses are relevant to SSO clients
<kiko-zzz> jamesh, under the hood, yes
<jamesh> places where identity is important
 * Hobbsee wonders if it's supposed to be public where the page was edited, and their IP address, too.
<wgrant> How are pockets for sourcepackage branches meant to be referenced? I note they're in the schema, but not the branch paths...
<wgrant> Oh.
<kiko-zzz> right
<wgrant> distroseries-pocket further up the page, I see.
<wgrant> I see even non-LP-people can spam remote bug trackers through LP now. Excellent.
<wgrant> Huh? I got a result pointing to bugs.staging.edge.launchpad.net using the global search...
<wgrant> It it blindly replacing launchpad.net in the results with edge.launchpad.net?
<BUGabundo> hi
<BUGabundo> I'm receiving emails from ubuntu-desktop team bugmail
<BUGabundo> I don't remember subscribing to it
<wgrant> BUGabundo: What does the message say at the bottom?
<BUGabundo> where can I see to which bugmails am I subscribed?
 * BUGabundo fechs email
<BUGabundo> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/297230
<BUGabundo> You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop, which is a bug assignee.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 297230 in dictd "jaunty debian/control typos" [Low,Fix released]
<wgrant> BUGabundo: Erm, but you're not... to which address was it sent? The ML, perhaps?
<BUGabundo> let me check
<wgrant> LP is definitely lieing, anyway..
<BUGabundo> From: Joe Smith <Yasumoto7@gmail.com>
<BUGabundo>  To: ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com
<wgrant> Right, you're subscribed to the mailing list.
<kiko-zzz> yeah, and in this case team != mailing list
<wgrant> Yep.
<wgrant> But the rationale needs improvement for that case.
<BUGabundo> http://paste.ubuntu.com/74695/
<BUGabundo> here is the source!
<BUGabundo> but it looks like a LP email!
<BUGabundo> even on the headers!
<wgrant> It is an LP email.
<wgrant> It just came through the ubuntu-desktop mailing list.
<BUGabundo> that's why my LP filter caught it and not the UDdesktop ML
<wgrant> Because that is set as the contact address for ubuntu-desktop.
<BUGabundo> Subject: [Bug 297230] Re: jaunty debian/control typos
<BUGabundo>  X-Launchpad-Bug: distribution=ubuntu; sourcepackage=dictd; component=main;
<BUGabundo>  Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â status=Confirmed; importance=Low; assignee=None;
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 297230 in dictd "jaunty debian/control typos" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/297230
<BUGabundo> ahhhhhhhh that's why
<BUGabundo> it is quite confusing to look at!
<BUGabundo> should a team ML be used also for bugmail?
<wgrant> Yes.
<wgrant> No problem with that.
<BUGabundo> how does one distiguish both then?
<wgrant> What do you mean?
<wgrant> I mean, what do you actually want to do?
<BUGabundo> well if some devs want to discuss stuff on the ML
<BUGabundo> and still have to process all the bug mail, it gets confusing
<BUGabundo> I don't want to do
<wgrant> Filter the bugmail from ubuntu-desktop into another folder, maybe.
<BUGabundo> I'm used to be on separete ML and bugmail lists!
<wgrant> That's what I do for my lists.
<BUGabundo> its the 1st time I got that!
<BUGabundo> I'm subscribed to UD ML so I can keep up with the desktop subjects
<BUGabundo> found strange to get this mail there
<BUGabundo> and now you explained it to me!
<wgrant> I do that.
<BUGabundo> plus wgrant the team doesn't even show up on this bug ticket
<BUGabundo> lol
<wgrant> BUGabundo: It probably got unassigned.
<wgrant> ** Changed in: dictd (Ubuntu)
<wgrant>      Assignee: Ubuntu Desktop (ubuntu-desktop) => (unassigned)
<wgrant>        Status: Triaged => Confirmed
<wgrant> Yes, it did.
<BUGabundo> ha thanks for the heads up
<Paavo> What is launchpad's policy regarding closed source supporting components shipped with an otherwise free software project?
<DarkKnight> hey i always wanted to know how i can learn the coding and fix bugs to improve launchpad....can anyone tell me where to start from
<Hobbsee> DarkKnight: it's closed source, so currently, you can't, really.  It is supposed to be open sourced by July 2009 though.
<persia> Paavo, From my reading of the official policy, it's forbidden.  For an official answer and possible options, you want to file a question on answers.launchpad.net
<Hobbsee> persia: you can get an NDA for it, if you really beg, iirc.
<Paavo> https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/40633
<Paavo> "Yes closed-source projects can now be hosted on Launchpad by purchasing a one-year subscription for US$250/project (+ applicable VAT if in the EU)."
<Paavo> that could be an option, but I'll post a question.
<persia> Ah, nice to see there's already an official answer there.
<DarkKnight> Hobbsee; i m not talking about improving launchpad...but okkk... i meant to fix bugs....learn the coding for fixing bugs of various releases
<Hobbsee> DarkKnight: oh, of ubuntu ones?
<Hobbsee> DarkKnight: then you want something like #ubuntu-bugs
<Paavo> SourceForge seems to be less flexible about that, and $250/year isn't very much.
<DarkKnight> Hobbsee; ya....
<DarkKnight> Hobbsee; want in the sense??
<Hobbsee> DarkKnight: you want to join #ubuntu-bugs, on thsi network, and ask there, instead of this channel :)
<DarkKnight> Hobbsee; thanq
* BjornT changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net/ | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Need help? Community help contact: BjornT
<vadi2> Hi. I'm seeing "/>                           />       " right on top of my page with the recent update
<kiko> vadi2, I heard about this. can you give me a) an HTML dump of the page b) a screenshot c) a browser user-agent line?
<kiko> vadi2, if you can then please attach them to a bug matsubara will give you in a second
<kiko> matsubara, let vadi2 in on the secret of this />/> bug number?
<kiko> or Ursinha the clairvoyant
<matsubara> bug 300126
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 300126 in launchpad "I>I> on top of lp: profile pages" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/300126
<vadi2> ok
<kiko> flacoste, sinzui: I'll want an RC for the above.
<vadi2> done
<vadi2> uh
<flacoste> kiko: ok, i'll fix it
<fta2> sorry to ask again but any progress on the kernel too old issue /w ppa ?
<kiko> cprov, bigjools: what's the story with this kernel too old stuff fta2's raising since yesterday?
<soren> I think it needs buildd admin love.
<bigjools> kiko: it's a buildd admin job, we're waiting on them
<soren> IIRC slangasek uploaded a fixed glibc, but it needs an admin to install.
<kiko> bigjools, meaning infinity only?
<bigjools> kiko: 9/10 yes
<persia> Aren't there 3 buildd admins with access?
<kiko> persia, if you wanna chase that down for us I'll owe you a t-shirt and beer at UDS
<persia> lamont, Would you be able to install the new glibc for the launchpad crew?
<kiko> for the crew of the PPA pirate ship
<lamont> persia: install where?
<persia> kiko, ?
<persia> bigjools, ?
<soren> lamont: The ppa buildds
<soren> lamont: For Jaunty, in particular.
<lamont> soren: real root, or build chroot?
<soren> lamont: build chroot, I imagine.
<elmo> or you can leave it
<lamont> well, given that the sequence is: untar, upgrade, build
<elmo> we should be able to upgrade the remaining buildds today
<lamont> ...
<elmo> and that's probably a better solution
<kiko> elmo, okay, thanks a lot for chiming in.
<persia> elmo, That does sound better.  Thanks.
<persia> kiko, So, does 5 minutes earn me a T-shirt?
<kiko> persia, if it gets done by today then yes :)
<kiko> (I give t-shirts out for actual solutions not plans)
 * persia likes the new launchpad bribe system
<joshuablount-afk> I'm having some trouble with a remote lock, and I'm unsure how to remove it.
<joshuablount-afk> I'm trying to push to a lp branch, my last push was stopped by a network connection fail.
<beuno> joshuablount-afk, bzr break-lock BRANCH
<kiko> faq faq faq
<joshuablount> ah! fantastic.
<beuno> don't mind kiko, it's release week
<kiko> or maybe I'm saying it's faqtastic :)
<cjwatson> BjornT: (as help contact) can you tell me why I'm not allowed to create a product called "rootskel-gtk"?
<kiko> maybe it's the root prefixing there. we can rename it for you.
<cjwatson> from another dummy name, you mean?
 * beuno looks up Launchpad FAQs
<kiko> yes
<BjornT> cjwatson: i think kiko is right, but i could look it up to confirm
<kiko> bootskel-gtk should work
<cjwatson> seems a kind of silly restriction :)
<kiko> it's a blacklist and it indeed contains silly things
<cjwatson> created bootskel-gtk
<BjornT> cjwatson: what's the error message, btw?
<cjwatson> would appreciate a rename, or should I file a question?
<BjornT> kiko: can you rename the project?
<cjwatson> BjornT: "The name 'rootskel-gtk' has been blocked by the Launchpad administrators"
<kiko> I can't
<kiko> but cjwatson can file the question and then we sort it out
<kiko> herb can but I think it's EOD for him
<BjornT> cjwatson: ok. that's due to the blacklist.
<cjwatson> https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/52038, thanks
<kiko> thanks cjwatson
<cjwatson> you want a bug on the dodgy blacklist too?
<kiko> nah, that I can do at the same time, clearing up an entry
<cjwatson> mkay, ta
* BjornT changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net/ | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Need help? Community help contact: -
* spm changed the topic of #launchpad to: Launchpad is going down from 0300 UTC for ~ 30-60mins for a code update | https://launchpad.net/ | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Need help? Community help contact: -
#launchpad 2008-11-21
<hggdh> ping for LP operator
<wgrant> hggdh: You might do better to just ask your question now.
<wgrant> Then people can ping the appropriate people if necessary..
<hggdh> please block launchpad user rutadeevacuacion@msn.com -- opening a series of non-sensical bugs
<wgrant> Again!?
<hggdh> yes...
<wgrant> spm: Didn't you kill two instances of him already?
<wgrant> hggdh: What's the username?
<hggdh> rutadeevacuacion@msn.com
<wgrant> That's not a Launchpad username.
<wgrant> The bit in the URL.
<Hobbsee> username, not email.
<spm> wgrant: whackamole.....
<hggdh> damn!
<wgrant> There are at least two accounts i know of with that display name.
<hggdh> rutadeevacuacion
<wgrant> Hmmmm
<wgrant> So these accounts are coming back to life? Wonderful.
<hggdh> it actually looks like an automation gone bad
<wgrant> Ooh.
<wgrant> Creative.
<wgrant> Linking to blueprints now.
<hggdh> yes... and subcribing other ppl
<wgrant> Oh dear.
<angusthefuzz> ironically some are linked to spamassassin and clamav blueprints
<wgrant> Hmmmm.
<spm> hggdh: can you shoot me a link to one of the bugs - verify I've zapped the right accounts again
<wgrant> Bug #299331 is one of his that I can't see.
<ubottu> Bug 299331 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/299331 is private
<wgrant> At least, I presume it's his.
<hggdh> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/300479
<wgrant> Because it's on his pet blueprint.
<ubottu> Error: This bug is private
<wgrant> Bug #300475
<ubottu> Bug 300475 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/300475 is private
<wgrant> That's one of his that I *can* see.
<hggdh> darn. wgrant, are you not in bug-control?
<wgrant> hggdh: I am.
<spm> wgrant: hggdh: ta - that's them
<hggdh> we have to give him/her at least a bit of credit for being creative
<persia> Or at least persistent
<wgrant> What's that other project that he's filing things like #299331 on?
<wgrant> persia: No, there's a few different types of spam produced by that user.
<persia> wgrant, Yes.  I see that.  The persistent comment was about account creation.
<hggdh> someone should tell her/him we are already over 300,000 bugs, so the bet (of when) is gone
<wgrant> persia: I only know of 2 accounts... but they come back to life after spm kills them.
<wgrant> LP doesn't kill accounts hard enough, it would seem,
<persia> Hrm.  Frustrating that.
<wgrant> https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/51951
<wgrant> What the.
<Hobbsee> can't you just block his IPs or something?
<wgrant> spm: You might want to remove the bugs links that I can't from https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/3g-networking-intrepid
<spiv> Possibly they're using unique strings so they can try them in search engines later, to see how useful LP as a place to spam?
<wgrant> spiv: But then they make them private...
<wgrant> After they file them.
<hggdh> should we remove the links from the blueprint?
<spiv> But bug notification emails get sent first?
<wgrant> Hmm, some of them are after an hour or two.
<wgrant> Good ppoint.
<spiv> And publically archived...
<wgrant> hggdh: I've done those I can, but spm will have to do the rest.
<wgrant> Kill kill kill.
<spm> wgrant: if only it was that easy.....
<hggdh> yes, I see...
<wgrant> spm: You're in ~admins, so you can surely see all of them...
<spm> see != delete :-(
<wgrant> Huh?
<wgrant> Why not?
<wgrant> I can delete any links I see.
<spm> wgrant: then clearly I am being UI challenged. :-) Where/how?
<wgrant> spm:
<wgrant> Gah.
<wgrant> 'Remove bug link' or similar in the actions menu on the blueprint.
<spm> ah *insert rude words*
<spm> ta
<wgrant> You'll then get checkboxes for the links to all the bugs you can see.
<Ursinha> want to see too
<wgrant> Blueprint has needed some love for too many years.
<spm> wgrant: much appreciated - abolsute power doesn't equal cleverness :-)
<Ursinha> or you mean just the remove bug link
<Ursinha> oh, ok
<spm> wgrant: right -how's that look?
<wgrant> spm: That blueprint looks much better. But there might be others around.
<hggdh> well. I guess I found a boring way to improve my karma
<wgrant> Did the discussion about bug deletion overnight that branched from the dev meeting come to a reasonable conclusion?
<wgrant> hggdh: I think spm should be about to make those bugs invisible by removing all subscribers.
<hggdh> ah, even better. Thank you, I was getting tired
<hggdh> (but if they are kept open they will pollute the stats)
<wgrant> hggdh: No they won't, because the user generating stats isn't in ~admins, so won't be able to see that they exist.
<hggdh> k, thanks
<spm> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/clamav-spamassassin-in-main - cleanedup
<wgrant> spm: Thanks.
<hggdh> pfui
<hggdh> thanks, folks
<jml> Depressing fact: Gobby is one of the most useful tools I have.
<lszyba1> hello,
<lszyba1> mysql source browsing doesn't work:  http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mysql/mysql-server/mysql-5.0/files
<lszyba1> Sorry, there was a problem connecting to the Launchpad server.
<Hobbsee> what, again?
<Hobbsee> spm: do you know why?
<spiv> mwhudson: ^
<Hobbsee> oh
<spm> usually means codebrowse needs bouncing
<spm> lszyba1: give it a few minutes and should be ok again
<lszyba1> k
 * spm switches from Jean Michel Jarre, to Wolfmother as I begin the rollout prep :-)
 * Hobbsee wonders if a queue fix got rolled out in the latest release.
<jml> wolfmother
<jml> of coures
<jml> that's what I've been missing :)
<spm> jml: it was that or creed - and I'm feeling more.. wolfmotherish today :-)
<spm> Led Zepplin just doesn't work for release prep work
 * wgrant was amused to see lots of the 'now playing' in RF commit messages.
<spm> likewise - I tend to leave it on DI Trace - less "distracting", but some tasks need "loud and rock" :-)
<jml> I'm not a huge fan of that habit...
<jml> we should store that information in revision properties.
<wgrant> Hahah.
<wgrant> Yes, abusing commit messages for metadata... tsk tsk.
<jml> wgrant: so, where can you see the RF commit messages?
<wgrant> jml: On the testing pages on dev.launchpad.net
<jml> ahh, that makes sense.
<thumper> abentley: back
<thumper> hmm
<thumper> not the channel I thought I was on
<abentley> thumper: Hee.
<spm> FYI All, running a bit slow on the release - be delayed rolling out by ~15 minutes - hopefully
 * Hobbsee turns spm's music up
<spm> Van Halen. 1984. Hobbsee - thank you :-)
<Hobbsee> :)
<spm> FYI All, release is postponed - to when is currently undetermined.
* spm changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net/ | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Need help? Community help contact: -
<Hobbsee> ouch?
 * thumper raises hand
<thumper> my fault
<wgrant> spm: Does edge's proxy need its icing reverted?
<spm> wgrant: chasing atm
<wgrant> spm: Thanks.
<spm> wgrant: should be fixored
<wgrant> spm: It would appear so. Thanks.
<nomed> hi all
<nomed> a quick question
<nomed> is there any way to download trasnlations from launchpad
<nomed> i'd need to create a cronjob
<gouki> Hi everyone. Just a quick question ... PPAs or only given to teams, and not projects, correct?
<wgrant> gouki: Teams and people, yes.
<gouki> wgrant, thank you.
<persia> fta, About?
<oldman> I had a weird "Your message was rejected" e-mail from launchpad-bugs-owner about my vcs-imports request
<oldman> https://code.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/zquake/trunk
<oldman> but it still says 'Pending review' on the page
<oldman> any idea what's up?
<kiko> oldman, can you put the message in a paste?
<oldman> Your message was rejected
<oldman> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
<oldman> From: oldman <oldmanuk@gmail.com>
<oldman> To: launchpad-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com
<oldman> Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 13:46:51 -0000
<oldman> Subject: New code import: zquake/trunk
<oldman> A new code import has been requested by oldman: https://code.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/zquake/trunk
<oldman> --
<oldman> You are getting this email because you are a member of the vcs-imports team.
<oldman> ^ literally just that :)
<kiko> that's weird.
<kiko> you're sure you didn't mis-send that yourself?
<oldman> heh
<oldman> Received: from chlorine.canonical.com (chlorine.canonical.com [91.189.94.204])
<oldman> *shrug*
<kiko> that's kinda what I was looking for in the paste, but ok
<kiko> I'll forward this to mwh and thumper
<kiko> actually
<kiko> oldman, can I ask you to ask a question up on answers.launchpad.net/launchpad-bazaar and stick the message in there?
<oldman> i can paste the full headers if you want
<oldman> ok sure
<kiko> oldman, that way it gets tracked properly and you get notified that we fixed it
<kiko> thanks really appreciate your effort bringing it to my attention
<oldman> kiko-fud: seems like someone has already asked
<oldman> kiko-fud: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad-bazaar/+question/51619
<oldman> :)
<kiko-fud> oldman, dupefinder strikes again! thanks twice
<oldman> :)
<oldman> feel free to do the review for my vcs-import though :)
<kiko-fud> oldman, done
<oldman> wow thanks
<oldman> btw off topic, but bazaar plugins, do they need to be python?
<kiko-fud> oldman, practically speaking yes, though you can get creating with the C python API and bust out of that..
<oldman> I currently have some bash --> cmdline stuff do push changes to CMVC
<oldman> but i'd need to learn python better to write it up as a proper plugin
<kiko-fud> but python is so easy, and bzrlib is /really/ easy
<oldman> :-
<kiko-fud> oldman, so I don't think it's that hard a project
<oldman> :)
<kiko-fud> okay, afk for a few hours!
<oldman> unfortunately some of the code base I work with has a silly 'top of the file' changelog
<oldman> and that always conflicts during merge
<kiko-afk> hmm. you might be actually able to write a plugin to handle that better
 * kiko-afk thought such a thing actually existed
<kiko-afk> oldman, can you give me a URL with the full email with headers of that weird email response you got?
<oldman> kiko-afk: sure, give me 1 minute
<kiko_> oldman, can you give me a URL with the full email with headers of that weird email response you got?
<oldman> kiko_: sure, give me 1 minute :)
<kiko_> thanks
* EdwinGrubbs changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net/ | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Need help? Community help contact: EdwinGrubbs
<mrooney> Is there a way to have one username forward to another?
<mrooney> In an incredibly longstanding issue with Canonical-Sysadmins, I have to change my LP username to get an @ubuntu email forward, but if I lose the old one it will be rather invasive to my identity and projects and thus far.
<matsubara_> why do you have to change your LP username to get an @ubuntu email?
<matsubara_> mrooney: ^
<mrooney> matsubara_: someone already has the forward that corresponds to my LP username
<mrooney> and apparently there is no way for me to get a non-matching forward
<mrooney> so the only way to get one is to change my LP username to something for which a forward doesn't exist
<matsubara_> yeah, I think that's the only way then. It'd be quite suprising for people emailing foo@ubuntu expecting those emails to arrive to foo, when in fact they arrive to you.
<matsubara_> what's your concern in changing your current LP username to something that the sysadmins can generate an @ubuntu email for you?
<mrooney> Because I already have been using it for over a year on wiki pages, emails, logged chats, and released code.
<mrooney> ...blueprints, etc.
<mrooney> now all those links will be broken
<matsubara_> mrooney: I see, and yeah, that's unfortunate.
<mrooney> matsubara_: so you don't know of any way to accomplish a 'forward'?
<matsubara_> mrooney: nope. I'm thinking of a way to help you
<mrooney> Okay :)
<matsubara_> mrooney: only way I can think of is for you to create a new profile. rename your existing one to something else that's an acceptable @ubuntu email, and then rename the new profile to your current profile and add a notice there pointing to your new nick.
<matsubara_> that way you keep your karma, bug reports, etc attached to your new nickname, and people following links outside of LP will know how to reach you
<matsubara_> after some time you can merge the two
<mrooney> that makes sense
<matsubara_> mrooney: and yes, that's quite a horrible workaround, but...
<mrooney> But why make a new profile then rename it once I rename my current one? Can't I just make a new one with the old name, once I rename my current one?
<matsubara_> mrooney: yeah, as long nobody registers it in the mean time :-)
<mrooney> Hm, renaming works faster then creating a new account?
<matsubara_> well, when you rename, you're freeing up the old name. if someone register a new account in the mean time and take that name, you lose it.
<mrooney> Right
<synic> is there a way to delete a project?
<mwhudson> synic: ask a question at answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<synic> k
<bmm> Yeah! I joined the channel to ask wether and when Jaunty would be available to build to in my PPA, but it looks like it's already there. So anyway, loving that PPA!
#launchpad 2008-11-22
<oldman> vcs-import keeps failing on sourceforge svn import
<oldman> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/zquake/trunk
<oldman> known bug?
<oldman> I wondered if it might be related to this
<oldman> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-cscvs/+bug/120992
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 120992 in launchpad-cscvs "use persistent svn_ra sessions and reconnect on failure" [High,In progress]
<Rocket2DMn> If not already done, can a LP admin please disable this user's account, they spammed bugs (similar to what i saw a few days ago) - rutadeevacuacion
<jml> Rocket2DMn: I don't think there are any LP admins around at the moment. You should ask a question on Launchpad: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+addquestion
<Rocket2DMn> uhhhh
<Rocket2DMn> I've closed the spam bugs, we had something like this a few days ago occur, by the time i showed up to close the bugs, the user was already banned
<jml> ok.
<jml> well, my point is that if you want to be certain that an LP admin sees your request, the best thing to do is ask a question at that URL.
 * jml goes away for lunch.
<Rocket2DMn> thanks jml , ill see if i get a response in here for now
<jml> ok.
<PrivateVoid> I am getting an error when I try to change my name on launchpad because I have used my identifier... it says I can continue by hitting save again, but that just gives me the error again
<wgrant> jml: Argh, that account has been disabled by spm at least twice already.
<wgrant> And his other account which has been disabled a couple of times is back too.
<wgrant> Can somebody please fix LP to make account death less temporary!?
<PrivateVoid> I am getting an error when I try to change my name on launchpad because I have used my identifier... it says I can continue by hitting save again, but that just gives me the error again
<Rocket2DMn> wgrant, are you talking to me?
<wgrant> Rocket2DMn: I'm referring to the account you mentioned, but was talking to jml.
<Rocket2DMn> ah ok, just making sure it was the same
<Rocket2DMn> has the account been re-banned?
<wgrant> Not AFAICT.
<wgrant> It is a weekend.
<Rocket2DMn> /headdesk
<wgrant> I fail to see how LP can be so useless at killing accounts.
<Rocket2DMn> does LP suport openid? or is that just the wiki?
<wgrant> LP is a provider, but not a consumer.
<Rocket2DMn> ok
<PrivateVoid> wgrant any idea how to kill a 'link' from LP to a consumer of openID
<PrivateVoid> it is stopping me from changing my LP name
<PrivateVoid> which Rocket2DMn has suggested I do
<wgrant> PrivateVoid: Ah, you meant that kind of identifier. I'm not sure if you can.
<wgrant> PrivateVoid: Ask a question at http://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+addquestion
<PrivateVoid> so there is no way to change the LP name?
<wgrant> You could do whatever you wanted with it until 3 days ago, I suspect.
<wgrant> Let me try on staging.
<Rocket2DMn> PrivateVoid, i didnt suggest it, someone else did
<PrivateVoid> nhandler then... sorry Rocket2DMn
<Rocket2DMn> love you too PV
<wgrant> PrivateVoid: It works for me on staging if I click save after getting the warning.
<PrivateVoid> how do I use staging?
<wgrant> Ah.
<wgrant> I just found the problem.
<PrivateVoid> is that edge?
<wgrant> staging and edge are separate.
<wgrant> staging runs on a copy of the DB that is erased nightly.
<wgrant> So it's no good.
<PrivateVoid> ok
<wgrant> Have you tried changing it on edge?
<wgrant> Oh.
<wgrant> Damn.
<wgrant> That revision has a DB patch, so it might well not even be on edge.
<wgrant> There's an RC fix for this bug, which should have been rolled out yesterday, but that rollout has been delayed by a couple of days...
<PrivateVoid> I will wait then...
<PrivateVoid> not an issue
<PrivateVoid> or perhaps I will go Milton
<PrivateVoid> and burn the building down
 * PrivateVoid laughs
<james_w> Hi, please take a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/~rutadeevacuacion
<james_w> they reported a bunch of nonsense bugs
<james_w> and they just made bug 137526 private, with apparently no reason
<ubottu> Bug 137526 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/137526 is private
<james_w> my guess is that they are testing the API, but not in a very sensible way
<Rocket2DMn> james_w, i reversed the private setting
<james_w> Rocket2DMn: I wasn't going to do that, as I wasn't entirely sure it was wrong
<Rocket2DMn> that person is a spammer
<Rocket2DMn> apparently did stuff to some other bugs, too, ill go reverse the changes
<Ryan52> Rocket2DMn, thanks.
<Rocket2DMn> apparently they are having problems keeping users banned, its not sticking
<Rocket2DMn> gotta go close more of his bugs, too
<Rocket2DMn> what a stupid thing to have to do
<Rocket2DMn> OK the user rutadeevacuacion@msn.com really needs to be banned, the spam bugs are coming full speed
 * Hobbsee wonders if that srot of thing happens on weekends.
<Hobbsee> especially with their apparent lack of success during the week
<Rocket2DMn> ok, well im finished closing those stupid bugs, im going to bed
<Rocket2DMn> if somebody wants to check up on him, close the garbage bugs (the first 2 listsings are legit, i reversed his changes)
<Rocket2DMn> https://bugs.launchpad.net/~rutadeevacuacion
<Rocket2DMn> gotta be in bugcontrol since tho, since the bugs are private
<Rocket2DMn> bleh english, thats why i need to go to bed, have fun
<wgrant> james_w: spm has already disabled both of his accounts twice.
<wgrant> And it's a weekend, so it's not likely to happen again soon.
<Hobbsee> sounds like they need a more effective bug spray
<wgrant> Unless spm_ is bad and is sitting at his computer.
<wgrant> It would probably be a good idea to go through the notification logs and revert every action either of his accounts have performed over the last week... there's quite a few.
<Hobbsee> I presume they can do that themselves?
<wgrant> 'they' being LOSAs? I'd hope so.
<Hobbsee> yes, sorry
<wgrant> Although given that they can't stop dead accounts from becoming undead, I have my doubts.
<wgrant> I mean, what the fsck is with that? How does an account that has been doubly killed come back again!?
<Hobbsee> register a new account with the same email?
<wgrant> No.
<wgrant> The account was still there.
<wgrant> With the email and username.
<wgrant> Just deactivated.
<wgrant> Somehow they manage to reactivate it.
 * Hobbsee expects there's a launchpad bug with reactivations.
<Hobbsee> staging doesn't do mail, does it?
<beuno_> spm_, herb, ^
<wgrant> Hobbsee: No.
<beuno_> kiko_, ^
<beuno> off to bed now!
 * wgrant suspects somebody will need to use the magic of screen and a while loop.
<wgrant> Night beuno.
<Hobbsee> oh, i think i know what's happened.
 * Hobbsee wonders if the LOSA deactivations are the same as normal deactivations
<Hobbsee> or end up behaving the same way.
<wgrant> Hobbsee: You mean you think somebody can just claim them?
<Hobbsee> wgrant: no, you have to get an email back to the same account to reactivate them.
<Hobbsee> but that's simple, if you own the account in question.
<wgrant> I'm unfortunately not too well versed in having my account banned.
<Hobbsee> launchpad supports reactivating a normal account, if you've closed it.  I expect that it doesn't show up differently to a LOSA closing someone's account.
<Hobbsee> wgrant: i created a test account, then deactivated it.  Then reactivated it.
<Hobbsee> if you try logging in with the credentials, it tells you to hit "forgot your password" because it's a deactivated account, to reactivate it.
<wgrant> Maybe they could win by removing or altering the email address on the account. But then I guess that just lets them reregister.
<Hobbsee> it sends you an email, you click the link, it says "welcome back"
<Hobbsee> etc
 * Hobbsee wonders if 'banned' just means deactivated - or if it's supposed to be something else, but isn't.
<wgrant> I don't quite know.
<Hobbsee> i didn't think we've actually been able to deactivate our own accounts for that long
<wgrant> Bug #gbcw has been closed for 15 months now.
 * Hobbsee notes that a buildd building a private build is not deactivated, incidently ,too.
<wgrant> Hobbsee: Give it a couple of days...
<wgrant> Oh, you're in your test account?
<wgrant> Aha.
<wgrant> yes, I thought that a little odd.
<Hobbsee> yes
<Hobbsee> i wasn't willing to try all the above with my normal account.  sheesh ;)
<Hobbsee> i don't trust LP *quite* that much.
<wgrant> Heh.
<zonderbroodje> hi there, any launchpad admins online?
 * Hobbsee blinks.
 * Hobbsee found a bug....
<spiv> Hobbsee: a bug?  In software?  Never!
<Hobbsee> spiv: heh
<Hobbsee> spiv: points for making private builds private.  Negative points for then making the entire history of whichever buildd that is building the private build also private.
<Hobbsee> what's weirder is that this was working earlier, even while it was building something private.
<Hobbsee> https://edge.launchpad.net/+builds/artigas/+history == now 403'd.
<spiv> Hobbsee: not for me, but I'm probably part of some special team.
<Hobbsee> spiv: likely, yes
<Hobbsee> spiv: you probably have a goose or something that lets you see it.
<wgrant> Hobbsee: No, it's because you're a buildd-admin. It's the same reason you can see the private builders building things.
<wgrant> You can see that the builds exist, but you can't see them, so you die.
<wgrant> us unprivileged people are actually more privileged here.
<Hobbsee> ah
<Flimm> Hello, I've uploaded a modified ubuntu package to my ppa, it fixes a big, how should I report that on the bug report?
<Flimm> A simple comment?
<Flimm> I guess I'll with a comment
<Flimm> Should I change the status of the bug report to fix commited?
<Flimm> "#Fix Committed is not to be used when a patch is attached to a bug " I guess not, then
<savvas> PPA question: If I want to provide three packages in different sections (devel, libs and libdevel), what section do I use for the source?
<savvas> hm.. more like a motu question I guess
<leefmc> beuno: (moving the discussion here): Does that super-tracker do anything else in terms of grouping bug reports, or anything? (Not that it needs to, just wondering). I recall reading about the ability for one project to submit a bug report and share it with another, in the case of plugin software this is very helpful. I'm just curious if more things like that exist, and in any way aided by the super-project idea.
<beuno> leefmc, you can link a bug to 2 different projects
<beuno> and track it's status seperatly
<beuno> without the need of a super-project at all
<leefmc> beuno: yea
<leefmc> beuno: But are there any more tricks like that for super-project .. projects?
<beuno> well, I think super-projects are just for grouping currently
<beuno> I don't think they inherit many things to their groupees
<leefmc> beuno: And on the same note, is there a better way to browse the super-project related projects? Ie, that list of bzr-plugins is rather long and unorganized, is there a page dedicated that lets you see activity, etc?
<leefmc> beuno: K
<beuno> leefmc, not currently, BUT, we're actively working on improving the UI of Launchpad, so something like that will happen soon
<beuno> feel encouraged to file bugs with the features that Launchpad lacks
<beuno> that'll help it get implemented  ;)
<leefmc> :)
<leefmc> Yea i'll be sure to do that, but for now the only thing that matters is what is there _now_, if you know what i mean hehe.
<beuno> absolutely
<leefmc> Im happy with most of Launchpad, i just hope we use it hehe
<leefmc> My main problem in the past was the horribly slow servers heh
<leefmc> currently its nice and snappy, so i hope it stays that way.
<leefmc> beuno: Any idea why the servers were so slow in the past?
<beuno> leefmc, it's a big project and growing fast, so "growing pains"
<beuno> it should get faster as we go
<leefmc> beuno: Any idea what you would say is the next coming feature? Are you guys working on UI improvements first, or .. ?
<beuno> leefmc, we're over 30 developers working on Launchpad, so a lot of features are coming down the pipe
<beuno> there is a major focus on UI and speed improvements
<beuno> which I think will be the biggest things
<leefmc> beuno: K, thanks for all the questions :)
<leefmc> well.. answers, heh
<beuno> leefmc, happy to help
<leefmc> beuno: Hopefully i'll get word this weekend which project host were going with.. waiting is driving me nuts. (Hes been on vacation for the past week :o)
<leefmc> anyway, thanks again. Gatta jet for a bit, bbl
<geser> which Ubuntu releases are supported in PPAs? does building for dapper with in a PPA?
<beuno> geser, all supported releases
<beuno> dapper, feisty, gutsy, hardy, intrepid, and, soon, jaunty
<james_w> jaunty is enabled isn't it?
<james_w> at least I thought I was uploading a jaunty in my PPA earlier
<beuno> james_w, maybe recently?
<beuno> ah, it looks like we do
 * beuno learns something new today
<NCommander> Can someone look at why the armel builders are ignoring P-a-s. i.e. https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+source/libx86/1.1+ds1-2
<Hobbsee> yeah, jaunty is there for ppa
<et3> ls
<et3> I'm having problems getting using bazaar
#launchpad 2008-11-23
<MTecknology> You know what..... Somebody should come up with a way to have editing a wiki add karma
<MTecknology> I think I'd have over a few thousand karma by now :P
<kiko-afk> I'd want to join that club too iykwim
 * Hobbsee proposes converting karma for cash, or something ;)
<Hobbsee> or a frequent flyer points-style thing.
<MTecknology> Hobbsee: I've been editing my teams wiki for ~5+hr/day average for the last month or two
<MTecknology> Hobbsee: Hey... can you do me a favor??
<Hobbsee> MTecknology: probably not, but ask anyway
<MTecknology> Hobbsee: here's a hint - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MTecknology#Testimonials
<Hobbsee> ah.  shoot me a mail
 * Hobbsee is heading out the door
<MTecknology> addy?
<Hobbsee> hobbsee@ubuntu.com?
<Hobbsee> kiko-afk: oh, if you're around still, can you kill the account test12345 please?
 * Hobbsee wants to do some testing on it.
<MTecknology> eh - lp has it too :P
<MTecknology> ty
<Hobbsee> (yes, it's one of mine)
<MTecknology> Hobbsee: nice butterfly pic
<Hobbsee> MTecknology: thanks :)
<MTecknology> Hobbsee: Is it fine if I just use your primary on LP?
<Hobbsee> MTecknology: sure.  it all goes to the smae place.
<MTecknology> aight - ty
<MTecknology> Hobbsee: How does that work?
<MTecknology> Does your ubuntu email go to your own server? or the other way?
<Hobbsee> MTecknology: the first way.
<MTecknology> ubuntu dloaded with pop?
<Hobbsee> nah - it forwards
<MTecknology> oh
<Hobbsee> automatically
<MTecknology> Can you send with that addy too?
<Hobbsee> you can send and receive mail with it, but there's no "hobbsee@ubuntu.com" account to log into somewhere.
<MTecknology> ?
<Hobbsee> well, there's no mail.ubuntu.com that you can use hobbsee@ubuntu.com to log in with, or whatever.
<MTecknology> oh - just no web ui pretty much?
<Hobbsee> er, yes.  I think so.
<MTecknology> do they offer imap?
<MTecknology> sorry - so many questions ...
<MTecknology> I'll let ya go :)
<Hobbsee> no, it's just a forward
<Hobbsee> and yeah, i'm gone :)
<Hobbsee> MTecknology: argh.  You sent it to the black hole!
 * Hobbsee forgot that she'd redirected all the launchpad mail, the filtered out the bits she actually wanted to keep
 * Hobbsee only checks the black hole infrequently
<MTecknology> Hobbsee: ??
<MTecknology> Hobbsee: How's this thing look? :D https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SouthDakotaTeam/Events
<MTecknology> crap - tables aren't building right...
<MTecknology> There - all fixed - once page saves
<MTecknology> Hobbsee: ping
<MTecknology> D:
<Hobbsee> MTecknology: contentless pong?
<et3> I found something stupid in bazaar indeed
<et3> bazaar won't know about the ssh key you made unless it's named "id_rsa"
<et3> I did not find a configuration option for the ssh key path either.  It just assumes it's named id_rsa
 * cjwatson marks another bunch of rutadeevacuacion's bugs as invalid
<cjwatson> et3: that depends on which ssh implementation it's using. The only place where id_rsa is hardcoded in bzr is in the paramiko implementation, and that also tries id_dsa for DSA keys
<cjwatson> et3: if it's using the openssh implementation, it'll just be whatever ssh's default is, which you can tweak on a per-host basis in ~/.ssh/config; see the ssh_config(5) manual page
<LarstiQ> or use ssh-add to let it know about your keys
<LarstiQ> (or an ssh agent)
<cjwatson> LarstiQ: ssh still needs to know which key you actually want to use
<LarstiQ> et3: in my case, bzr + openssh use my authentication key off of my openpgp smartcard
<cjwatson> LarstiQ: simply adding it to ssh-agent makes no difference to which key it'll try
<LarstiQ> cjwatson: hmm, I'm under the impression it will enumerate them.
<LarstiQ> or find a matching fingerprint maybe
<LarstiQ> cjwatson: but your ~/.ssh/config advice will work whatever the case (with openssh of course)
<cjwatson> LarstiQ: oh, you may be right, sorry
<cjwatson>  * try keys in the following order:
<cjwatson>  *      1. agent keys that are found in the config file
<cjwatson>  *      2. other agent keys
<cjwatson>  *      3. keys that are only listed in the config file
<cjwatson> saith sshconnect2.c
<LarstiQ> cjwatson: ok :)
<LarstiQ> et3: so, are you using openssh?
<mdke> hi all. I've been trying to get a revision page out of bazaar.launchpad.net for a while now, it won't load and says to report it here
<devil> Help
<devil> Can anybody tell me why I cannot connect to launchpad.net all the time. THX
<Peng_> What version of bzr will LP 2.1.11 use?
<epsy> is loggerhead working fro you?
<mib_4m2itd> The bazaar.launchpad.net seems broken
<mib_4m2itd> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~gezakovacs/lvpm/devel/files
<epsy> same here
<mib_4m2itd> No announcement about it in the topic though :\
<andrea-bs> !weekend
<ubottu> It's a weekend.  Often on weekends, the paid developers, and a lot of the community, may not be around to answer your question.  Please be patient, wait longer than you normally would, or try again during the working week.
<andrea-bs> mib_4m2itd, epsy: I think it's because of bug 156453
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 156453 in loggerhead "production loggerhead branch leaks memory" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/156453
<epsy> heh
<epsy> one would guess so :S
<mib_4m2itd> andrea-bs: ah ok. Also, could you edit the topic and remove EdwinGrubbs? he seems not to be here heh.
* andrea-bs changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net/ | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Need help? Community help contact: -
<mib_4m2itd> cheers!
<andrea-bs> you're welcome :)
<mib_4m2itd> well.. I'm off to enjoy my weekend too :P
<epsy> while I'm at it, the error page looks messed up
<epsy> the <p>s should have no max-width
<dhruv_1884> hello
<dhruv_1884> i am having trouble viewing the source code files of my branches in launch pad. I get the following message "           Sorry, there was a problem connecting to the Launchpad server.                             Try reloading this page in a minute or two.           If the problem persists, let us know in           the #launchpad IRC channel on Freenode.                  Thanks for your patience."
<persia> dhruv_1884, Backscroll speculates this is bug 156453
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 156453 in loggerhead "production loggerhead branch leaks memory" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/156453
<andrea-bs> dhruv_1884: unfortunately on Sunday there are no Launchpad admins around :(
<dhruv_1884> andrea-bs: thanks, hope this bug gets fixed soon
<persia> andrea-bs, Well, depends on the Sunday, but at least not today.
<andrea-bs> persia: mh.. you're right :)
<janjokela> Hello, any guesses as to why browsing code in launchpad is ass slow?
<persia> Launchpad bug 156453
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 156453 in loggerhead "production loggerhead branch leaks memory" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/156453
<janjokela> good luck then on that bug!
<pkern> OOPS-1058EA105, any comment to those trac-launchpad interaction stuff?  I tried to delete the bug watcher in https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bugs/296707/ which messes with our Trac a bit.
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 296707 in malone ""Updating Launchpad bug reference" comment is redundant" [Low,Triaged]
<epsy> uhm..does anyone here know what to do when you forget your PGP passphrase?
<persia> epsy, check your safety deposit box.  If it's not there, use the revocation certificate that is there to revoke the key, and make a new one.
<persia> Alternately, try another few hundred times until you get it right.
<epsy> revoking it requires the passphrase
<epsy> or it's just enigmail bugging on me
<persia> No.  Revoking it *without* the preprepared revocation certificate requires a passphrase: this is why you want to prepare one of these when you create the key, print it out, and put it in your safety deposit box.
<epsy> oh right
<persia> It's annoying to have to type in later, but it's also annoying to have an active key out there that you can't use, with no way to tell others not to use it.
<epsy> yeah
<epsy> trough I don't see how to revoke it with gpg
<epsy> I only see --gen-revoke in gpg --help
<stgraber> IIRC you can simply write your revocation certificate in a text file then: gpg --import <file> and then gpg --send-key <key id>
<stgraber> but I never had to do it so ...
 * persia suspects stgraber is correct, but shares the lack of experience
<geser> as far as I know, a revokation certificate is like signature, so gpg --import should do it (and don't forget to upload it to the keyservers)
<geser> so keep your revocation certificate safe, else somebody else might revoke your key
<epsy> --import apparently revoked these
<epsy> so I send the revoked pub key right? :)
<epsy> right, let's see how launchpad likes it
<epsy> yup, it says it was revoked
<persia> epsy, Now you can generate a new key, prepare a new revocation certificate, and pick a new passphrase.
<epsy> let's how the next passphrase will not be forgotten :S
<epsy> let's hope*
<epsy> and not as in "it gets on IRC"
<epsy> thank you very much
<andresj> btw, bazaar.launchpad.net is down. :)
<MTecknology> Hobbsee: ping
<MTecknology> Hobbsee: I got a pong from ya, idk when
<MTecknology> How does a person add openid to their accounts?
<MTecknology> It's been a long time ago since I did it and now I'm having somebody ask me
<persia> MTecknology, By signing up to launchpad (yes, this is a change from the previous behaviour)
<MTecknology> persia: It's just default now?
<persia> Yep/
<MTecknology> wow - nice change :P
<MTecknology> what if they signed up before that?
<persia> Then they already have it.
 * persia didn't sign up for OpenID, or do anything special, but uses LP OpenID daily
<MTecknology> persia: I don't see any openid info listed on their page
<MTecknology> or is that not public?
<MTecknology> nope
<persia> Do they see it on their page?
<MTecknology> I'm trying to find out
<persia> https://help.launchpad.net/YourAccount/OpenID might be a good resource
<MTecknology> persia: where is it supposed to be - I'm not seeing it on mine either :P
<persia> It's in the same section as email, irc nick, etc. for me.
<persia> (I have no idea if this is where it is "supposed" to be)
<MTecknology> Email, Wiki, IRC, OpenPGP, SSH
<MTecknology> That's all I see for mine
<MTecknology> persia: I'm confused.... I know I always used to be able to see it. I can still log in with it, but I don't see it listed.
<persia> MTecknology, I don't have any information beyond what I've provided, and I'm not sufficiently special to have any means to collect information that aren't available to you.
<MTecknology> alrighty
<MTecknology> thanks for the info
<MTecknology> it's weird :P
<epsy> is it possible to set a release to anotherr date as today ?
<et3> I can never reach this place on my account:  http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~codeshiftster/codeshift-wallpapers/main/files
<spm_> et3: should be fine now
<et3> spm_: I'll check it out
<et3> I built a .deb
<et3> I don't know how to upload it
<et3> thanks spm_
 * NCommander wonders what would happen if I fed LP a 3.0 quilt source package
<wgrant> NCommander: It's not supported yet, but I believe it's scheduled.
<NCommander> wgrant, its silently dropped
<NCommander> :-/
<Lea> spm, are you here?
<NCommander> wgrant, no, wait
<NCommander> nm
<NCommander> It accepted it
<NCommander> and then rejected it because I forgot to change the distro to jaunty :-)
 * paolettopn e' away (ciao a tutti!)
<spm> Lea: I re-am now
<Lea> RE: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/51949
<Lea> I'm no longer to log in with the email address I had on the new account, and indeed, it appears to not exist at all from the forgotten password page
<Lea> *no longer able
<Lea> presumably only the old inaccessible email address is attached to the account
<spm> Lea: the email address to that account is the ...@...mine.nu one - if that helps?
<Lea> it confirms my suspicions, but that email address no longer exists - hence the original request for a merge
 * Lea was hoping to have the leachim@leachim.info address attached to the account
<spm> Ah your request implied it was the other way around. NP, I'll fix - one sec.
<Lea> sorry for the confusion
<spm> oki - should be getting a confirm email (possibly twice - I may have double clicked) - see if that works
<vadi2> Hi. I've created a new milestone in my project, however I'm not seeing the option to assign a bug to a milestone in the individual bugs reports.
<vadi2> Am I missing something? I didn't find clear instructions how to how work with milestones properly besides an overview of them
<vadi2> Found it. It had a rather unexpected method for setting it
<Lea> spm, Application error.  Unauthenticated user POSTing to page that requires authentication.
<Lea> I can't log in because i need the email added to the account. I can't add the email to the account because I need to log in. hmmm
<Lea> Auth link was: https://edge.launchpad.net/token/fP6NGdHRH0sDFgfrcbGq
<spm> Lea: heh - that doesn't help does it - ok. Give me about 15-20 minutes - in the middle of debuggerering something else. ping/nag :-) me if I still haven't got back to you by then.
<spm> Lea: this is a tad frustrating. I suspect the best bet may be the long way around. Can you createa  new account with your proper email address, and we'll do the merge/rename fandango onto the new account.
<Lea> k
<Lea> spm, working account with correct email: https://launchpad.net/~leachim-leachim
<spm> Lea: ta, ok, I'll merege the old account onto that for starters...
<spm> Lea: ok, the merge is done - lets confirm that's still working for you, before I rename?
<Lea> yep, still working
<spm> cool, now to break with the rename then... ;-)
<Lea> :P
<spm> Lea: https://edge.launchpad.net/~leachim  should be all systems go?
<Lea> yes, works spm. Thanks for the help. sorry it took so long
<spm> Lea: excellent - is np. Poop happens.
<Hobbsee> oh, spm!  You're here :)
<spm> Hobbsee: yessss..... ;-)
<Hobbsee> spm: can you kill off the account test12345 please?
 * Hobbsee would like to test something.
<spm> Hobbsee: deactive as in?
<Hobbsee> spm: as in do wahtever you did to that other spammer.
<Hobbsee> s/other//
<spm> right - was just asking that exact question. sure. one sec.
<Hobbsee> thanks
<spm> Hobbsee: iz done
<Hobbsee> spm: thanks!
<savvas> is the bazaar.launchpad.net fixed?
<savvas> wait, let me try
<spm> savvas: thrice this morning
<Hobbsee> spm: reactivated.
<Hobbsee> spm: let me spam you!!!
<savvas> mm.. spam.. food
<Hobbsee> That's the bug, then.
#launchpad 2009-11-16
<intellectronica> sladen: i've removed all subscriptions from the top-level bug
<intellectronica> sladen: would you mind pasting or forwarding to me a few example emails, so that i can see from their headers why they're being sent?
<sladen> intellectronica: http://www.paul.sladen.org/ubuntu/bugs/seahorse-apport-and-unsubscribes.mbox.txt  120-odd received messages since your "it's fixed post"
<intellectronica> sladen: thanks!
<sladen> intellectronica: and another one this second
<intellectronica> sladen: i think i know what's going on. our idea of just nuking the subscriptions to that bug was way too naive. you are, of course, an 'also notified' subscriber now :(
<wgrant> intellectronica: You didn't nuke the dupe subscriptions?
<intellectronica> wgrant: no, because, at least in theory, users should be able to kill those subscriptions themselves (those bugs don't time out)
<intellectronica> but i may have to, as a service to the public
<wgrant> intellectronica: Users cannot get to the dupe bugs.
<wgrant> intellectronica: Unless they formulate a link themselves.
<wgrant> The normal story to opt out of dupe-spam is to go to the master and click the Unsubscribe link.
<wgrant> Not go to the dupe and do that, since there is no link to the dupe in the email.
<sladen> intellectronica: for each of those messages, 1 person is receiving it directly and 1,999 receiving it via the dupe
<intellectronica> wgrant: right, but the information is in the headers, so it's not impossible, just hard
<wgrant> intellectronica: They have to know what they are doing.
<wgrant> intellectronica: And I bet 1950 of them don't.
<intellectronica> indeed
<sladen> intellectronica: people who "know what they are doing" don't reply to a message saying asking to be unsubscribed
<ajmitch> it's so easy to file a bug & get subscribed, just a little harder for that person to unsubscribe
<sladen> intellectronica: could I politely, respectively, hopefully, enquire strongly about kludging the out-going mail script
<intellectronica> sladen: that's a good point. and i'm not rejecting the idea of using a heavier hammer in this particular case, b.t.w
<intellectronica> sladen: yes, i am know seriously considering doing exactly that
<ajmitch> parsing an 'unsubscribe' request could be useful too, but prone to failure
<wgrant> ajmitch: And prone to hiding bugs.
<intellectronica> ajmitch: i think that's taking it a bit too far :)
<wgrant> ajmitch: eg. I forge an unsubscribe request.
<ajmitch> wgrant: that requires some minimal level of knowledge, and it wasn't an entirely serious suggestion
<sladen> long-term I suspect Launchpad is going to have to append email-specific unsubscribe links that "do the right thing" based on how the particular message was receieved (eg. change the "this was generated as a result of..." to be that and/or a link
<ajmitch> partly because it's too much to expect gpg-signed mails to be able to unsubscribe from a bug :)
<intellectronica> sladen: tbh long term i think we should re-consider indirect subscriptions from dupes. i'm not convinced that they are really that useful
<sladen> ajmitch: the background to this is a frequently-occuring bug, apport enabled beyond release, auto-duping, launchpad timing out over X,000 dupe subscribers and then apport interating over all of the report, sending N backtraces to N subscribers  (were N is approximately 2,000)
<wgrant> Mainly because of an update-manager bug.
<ajmitch> sladen: Yes I know, it's something that's far too easy to subscribe to (by way of apport)
<ajmitch> those people must be getting a lot of email
<sladen> intellectronica: yup;  but I'd encourage doing something $now...  in 24 hours there will be another 100 messages, another 10 unsubscribe requests (and the same everyday going back a week or so)
<sladen> ajmitch: uh huh
<intellectronica> sladen: we're on it. sorry, once again, for the inconvenience
<sladen> ajmitch: and it's even more monotonous because they're all identical;  people will have started backlisting them in gmail as spam by now, and that isn't going to bode well
<ajmitch> I'm surprised that there's not been a big outcry over such things yet
<intellectronica> sladen: using spam filtering is not necessarily a bad idea. the filter is most-likely statistical, and will do the right thing
<sladen> intellectronica: not for adelie.canonical.com's reputation
<intellectronica> that is, after some training, it will identify the bug number as the offending token and distinguish these emails from other bug mail
<sladen> ...and notice the other 1,000,000 that have passed via gmail as being identical, and identify the same source
<intellectronica> i don't think that's a risk, but admittedly, i don't care to find out :-/
<sladen> ajmitch: I think for most of the people, this bug is the only one they've reported, and possibly their only contact with Launchpad---eg. people have referred saying "i think this linux bug reporter thing has issues and needs to be improved as i cannot unsub"  etc
<intellectronica> sladen: i am going to nuke the subscriptions for all duplicates (as soon as i can get an administrator's help). i realise that won't solve the problem completely, but we can look at a more heavy-handed solution tomorrow (eu/us) morning.
<sladen> intellectronica: yeah, it will need an administrator...
<sladen> intellectronica: it would be good to have a record of who was affected so that a final email can be sent to them apologising/explaining (I'm happy to assist with that)
<intellectronica> sladen: yes, we keep a record of all of it
<intellectronica> sladen: subscriptions to duplicates nuked. this will continue to be a problem as new dupes and subscriptions are created all the time, but i hope it will make things manageable until we come up with a longer-term solution tomorrow
<intellectronica> sladen: thanks a lot for the help diagnosing and solving this problem. feel free to update me with any new information you have
<sladen> intellectronica: I just got one at  Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 02:17:16 -0000
<sladen> oops, mis-read that as 02:27
<intellectronica> sladen: that may have been just before removing the additional subscriptions. also, you may be 'also notified' for other reasons (other than dupes)
<intellectronica> and there's nothing we can reasonably do about that
<intellectronica> let's watch for new emails coming in the following hours. you should get none, or a lot less
<esr> gmb: Here?
<jml> esr, gmb is generally around during UK working hours.
<esr> Noted, thanks.
<jml> np.
<esr> I wanted to nudge him again about ForgePlucker's Launchpad handler.
<lifeless> jml: yo
<jml> lifeless, hi
<poolie1> hello jml, lifeless
<RAOF> james_w: How did you set up your daily-builds launchpad persona?  Did you register a new account with a different email address, or what?
<lifeless> RAOF: james_w will be asleep before UDS, I wager
<RAOF> Stupid timezones.
<RAOF> Oh, well.
<wgrant> RAOF: But yes, he did.
<RAOF> Hm.  That's annoying.
<wgrant> Indeed.
<wgrant> It would be handy to be able to restrict SSH keys, OpenPGP keys, OAuth tokens, and perhaps even browser login sessions to certain subsets of Launchpad.
<RAOF> Time to crank out the ancient hotmail account, then.
<wgrant> RAOF: No + addressing with your email provider?
<RAOF> I don't know.  Does gmail?
<wgrant> I presume so, but I haven't used it in a loooooooong time.l
<RAOF> Answer: yes.
<wgrant> A quick Google suggests yes.
<maxb> To what extent is the "ubuntu distributed development" stuff part of Launchpad? Is there anyone other than james_w who can answer why a particular import hasn't happened?
<wgrant> maxb: It's not part of LP at all.
* allenap changed the topic of #launchpad to: #482382 is still spamming | codehosting is back -- branch updates are catching up | Read https://help.launchpad.net for help | Help contact: allenap | Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Launchpad is open source: see channel #launchpad-dev
<[reed]> gmb: ping
<gmb> [reed]: Hi
<[reed]> gmb: hey, bugzilla.mozilla.org just upgraded to Bugzilla 3.4. Launchpad has already started pulling down comments, but we want to get the reverse set up. I assume you need some type of account to use for it?
<[reed]> so it can set see_also and add comments
<gmb> [reed]: We already have an account, it's just not enabled yet on our side, because we're having some problems with our syncing script at the moment.
<gmb> [reed]: Basically, we track so many bugs on b.g.o that if we switched it on right now there'd be a very good chance that we'd DOS the Bugzilla, which would be Bad.
<[reed]> what's the account?
<[reed]> no
<[reed]> b.m.o
<[reed]> not b.g.o
<[reed]> bugzilla.mozilla.org
<gmb> [reed]: Ahhh. Fail.
<gmb> Sorry.
<gmb> Right, hang on then. Confusing you with Gnome isn't going to make matters easier...
<[reed]> ;)
<[reed]> been a year since we talked in MV about this, but now it's finally doable
<[reed]> hehe
<gmb> :)
<gmb> [reed]: Okay, so we need an account, yes. I'll take care of setting that up, though it'll may take a couple of days to start syncing both ways because of the way that configuration works on our side (basically, we need SA intervention at the moment; fixing that is on our to-do list).
<gmb> [reed]: Thanks for letting us know, though.
<gmb> We'll get it up and running ASAP.
<[reed]> gmb: you'll need to get that account granted privs
<[reed]> you can drop me an e-mail with the account name
<[reed]> or find me on IRC
<[reed]> and I can do that for you
<gmb> [reed]: Okay. I'll let you know when it's set up. Thanks.
<[reed]> https://launchpad.net/~reed has my contact info
<[reed]> thanks again!
* allenap changed the topic of #launchpad to: #482382 is still spamming | codehosting is back -- branch updates are catching up | Read https://help.launchpad.net for help | Help contact: - | Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Launchpad is open source: see channel #launchpad-dev
<anj> Do the lp code pages have a way to view the tags on a branch without scrolling through all of the revisions - i.e. the output from 'bzr tags'?
<hit^> hi, something wrong with lp servers?
<stevesmith1983> hi, I haven't signed into lunchpad for over a year, and I can't fathom out my email address, could someone help please?
<stevesmith1983> ping allenap - the website says you're on help rotation ^
<stevesmith1983> I've found my page, could someone log in and tell me my email addres, please https://launchpad.net/~stevesmith
<tsimpson> stevesmith1983: it's publicly viewable it seems, do you want me to post it here or /msg you
<tsimpson> ?
<stevesmith1983> thanks tsimpson :) could you msg it to me please
<tsimpson> there you go
<stevesmith1983> thanks!  problem - I do't have that doain any mroe, how can I get my password reset?
<stevesmith1983> I'll try some comon passwords I use first :P
<stevesmith1983> I'm in, thanks very much, tsimpson :)
<tsimpson> no problem :)
<stevesmith1983> am I being blind? I can't find where to change my email address
<stevesmith1983> ah, being blind, got it :P
<tsimpson> LP is all web 2.0 these days ;)
<stevesmith1983> well tell mr web 2.0 that his edit pencil icon looks like a funny ! symbol :P
<l3on> Hi all... I've a question: How can I get indirectly members from a group ?
<l3on> For example, here: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-it/+members
<l3on> there are 87 member through other team memberships.
<l3on> How can I get a list of them?
<tsimpson> via the web interface or the launchpad API?
<l3on> I prefer via web...
<l3on> But API's way could be interesting :)
<tsimpson> I don't think there is a way other than running through all the teams in a team
<tsimpson> with the launchpad API (launchpadlib) you can just iterate over all the users and, if it's a team, iterate over that (in a big loop)
<tsimpson> but there's no way to get "one big list" directly
<l3on> mmm... so API is the only way?
<tsimpson> without manually clicking on all the links, yeah
<l3on> damn, ok. I'm going to read the doc. Thank you :).
<tsimpson> people and teams are generally the same object to launchpad, it's just that teams can have sub-members
<fta> hmm.. duplicate key value violates unique constraint "binarypackagerelease_binarypackagename_key"
<fta> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/35755024/upload_1347942_log.txt
<barefoot> anyone else having problems with the url for getting launchpad via https://dev.launchpad.net/Getting?
<thumper> barefoot: which url are you having problems with?
<barefoot> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~launchpad-pqm/launchpad/devel/utilities/rocketfuel-setup
<thumper> barefoot: try http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~launchpad-pqm/launchpad/devel/annotate/head%3A/utilities/rocketfuel-setup
<thumper> barefoot: no
<thumper> not that one
<thumper> this one
<thumper> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Elaunchpad-pqm/launchpad/devel/download/head%3A/rocketfuelsetup-20070604080655-qvg2xintg0bed61s-1/rocketfuel-setup
<barefoot> ty thumper
<geser> did someone seen a misalignment in the subscribers list of a bug? looks like there is too much space between the person icon and the name so a line break gets inserted
<Rocha> hi
<Rocha> i'm having some trouble with launchpad
<Rocha> how can i branch two branches i have in a project registered in launchpad?
<Rocha> i have a trunk and stable branches
<Rocha> i want to merge trunk into stable
<Rocha> i did propose for merging which asks for a review
<Rocha> i changed the status of the review to approved
<RAOF> Rocha: The "propose for merging" button doesn't actually do the merging for you.
<Rocha> i know
<RAOF> It's a review interface.
<Rocha> but where is the button to actually do the merge
<exarkun> Rocha: 'bzr merge ...'
<RAOF> There isn't one.  You need to merge trunk into stable :)
<RAOF> cd stable; bzr merge ../trunk
<Rocha> so i have to branch trunk in a directory on my laptop and merge it with the launchpad url for the stable branch?
<ajmitch> though a per-project PQM could be interesting :)
<RAOF> Rocha: More the other way around; you want to merge trunk _into_ stable, so you need to start with stable.
<Rocha> hmm, ok
<Rocha> branch the stable on my laptop, merge with trunk and pull the changes to the stable branch in launchpad?
<RAOF> Rocha: There is actually a project to make this automated; it's on launchpad and called "tarmac", I think.  It monitors your merge requests and automatically merges the "accepted" ones.
<RAOF> Yes.  Although we'd say "push the changes to the stable branch on launchpad".
<RAOF> ajmitch: Yes; that would be cool.  I seem to remember someone actually talking about making it happen, too.
<thumper> Rocha: we're thinking about adding a "merge it" button, but there isn't one yet
<RAOF> ajmitch: Although that was some time ago, so it would appear to have not :)
<ajmitch> yeah, I think it came up when talking to thumper
<exarkun> s/window 12
<ajmitch> thumper: I'm guessing it could be done with the jobs system that was talked about, running a separate process?
<thumper> ajmitch: yes
<thumper> ajmitch: in fact, it is a trivial job to do
<thumper> ajmitch: it just isn't a priority for us right now
<thumper> we have got like a million other things on our plate
<ajmitch> it sounds useful, I might have to ask you about how to go about it
<thumper> ajmitch: I'd mentor the change if you want to do it :)
<ajmitch> if you have time for it, that is
<wgrant> Can I retarget a merge proposal from devel to db-devel?
<thumper> wgrant: not yet
<thumper> wgrant: I want to add it?
<thumper> wgrant: I want to add it.
<thumper> wgrant: right now, delete and try again
<wgrant> thumper: I'd prefer not to delete, as it's an approved review.
<thumper> wgrant: in which case, no you can't change the target
<wgrant> But I need to retarget at and merge db-devel.
<thumper> wgrant: hmm...
<thumper> wgrant: it just isn't possible right now, sorry
<Rocha> RAOF: done
<Rocha> RAOF: thanks for the help =)
<ari-tczew> question, how can I clean up my +related-software? It shows packages which have been removed from my ppa.
<wgrant> ari-tczew: You can't. Those are there forever.
<wgrant> It is a permanent record.
<ari-tczew> mess :P
<geser> did someone else seen a misalignment in the subscribers list of a bug? looks like there is too much space between the person icon and the name so a line break gets inserted
<wgrant> geser: +1
<wgrant> geser: It was slightly misaligned last week, but yesterday I noticed there's a complete linebreak.
<wgrant> Changing the icon's display from inline-block to inline fixes it.
<geser> I see it only for "normal" persons, teams look ok. till around a browser width of 1700px it looks like a line break, but on fullscreen I see on bug 179684 the "P" of "P Stahlmann" on the same line as the icon
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 179684 in unace "*** stack smashing detected ***: /usr/bin/unace terminated" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/179684
<huayra> Anyone here knows what data the launchpad-drupal module can give?
<huayra> I am keen in using browser autodetection for a site (SpreadUbuntu) based in the Launchpad language settings
<huayra> and have the original browser autodetection as a fallback
<huayra> SpreadUbuntu uses Drupal 6.x and the drupal-Launchpad OpenID and Teams module for authentication
#launchpad 2009-11-17
<mathepic> Is the recommended setup for mailing lists to have an open PROJECT-users team for the main mailing list?
<mathepic> I wanted to have it hosted in the "dev" team, but that didn't work because its moderated, and thus all the emails have to be moderated.
<poolie> mathepic: i don't know if that's officially recommended but it makes sense to me
<poolie> yes it should be separate from the actual dev team
<flacoste> mwhudson: around?
<jml> flacoste, he just went for lunch
<ajuonline> how do I copy code/bugs etc from a different project/series to a branch of other project?
<jml> ajuonline, for bugs, you can just change the project that they affect
<jml> ajuonline, for code, you need to either re-push the branches or use the API, IIRC.
<ajuonline> jml: repushing saves all commit history from the team?
<ajuonline> s/saves/retains
<jml> ajuonline, yep.
<dtchen_> hi, folks, I have a brief (and hopefully elementary question): I'm trying to fix https://edge.launchpad.net/pulseaudio/trunk so that git imports work correctly. Either I'm suffering a senior moment, because I can't easily find how to change the git:// uri, or I'm up a creek.
<ajuonline> jml: is there a document on this I can look?
<jml> ajuonline, https://help.launchpad.net/ is your best bet.
<jml> dtchen_, you can't (for various boring reasons). you can ask us to, IIRC.
<jml> dtchen_, if you are using edge, you should be able to delete the import and create a new one
<lifeless> dtchen_: so if you click on the branch (with the signpost icon), then there is a link on the right hand side
<jml> (maybe. I just added the feature and haven't actually verified it on edge yet)
<lifeless> dtchen_: I'd like to know if you have access to edit the code import
<lifeless> (you probably don't)
<lifeless> dtchen_: what should the git url be?
<jml> dtchen_, hmm. that's an svn import.
<wgrant> Altering the URL, especially to anothre type, sounds like everything will die.
<lifeless> snap, I just noted
<lifeless> definitely needs a fresh import
<dtchen_> url = git://git.0pointer.de/pulseaudio.git
<dtchen_> lifeless: I don't appear to have access; there's nothing on the trailing vertical edge that leads me to believe that I have such access
<lifeless> so we can rename the trunk to trunk-svn
<lifeless> and let you make a new one for the git import
<lifeless> dtchen_: [re access] - on https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/pulseaudio/trunk ?
<dtchen_> lifeless: correct
<lifeless> kk
<jml> dtchen_, is there an option there to let you delete the branch?
<lifeless> dtchen_: I've renamed it to trunk-svn
<dtchen_> jml: only "delete series"
<lifeless> dtchen_: please request a new import
<wgrant> jml: Why would there be? He doesn't own it.
<lifeless> then we can link it into the series
<lifeless> wgrant: vcs-imports doesn't want responsibility
<jml> wgrant, I recently patched Launchpad so that you can delete vcs-imports owned branches if you registered the import.
<mwhudson> flacoste: here now, but still munching
<flacoste> mwhudson: ok, i'm uploading the minimal zconfig file you need to the bug you reported
<wgrant> jml: Won't new ones just be owned by the registrant?
<dtchen_> jml: interesting. I suppose it's worth nothing that I did *not* register the import; the previous owner (Bogdan) did.
<flacoste> mwhudson: i'll file a merge-proposal, ideally we shouldn't require such a file
<flacoste> mwhudson: but that should unblock you
<mwhudson> flacoste: not my bug, but thanks :)
<wgrant> Or the commit message is misleading.
<dtchen_> The previous owner no longer wished to maintain the LP bits, so he turned it over to ~ubuntu-audio-dev upon my request.
<jml> dtchen_, ahh ok. that makes me happy then :)
<jml> wgrant, yes.
<jml> wgrant, I did both.
<wgrant> jml: Ahh, handy.
<jml> wgrant, thanks.
<jml> flacoste, is this the launchpad.conf bug? it's blocking bazaar.edge.launchpad.net
<flacoste> jml: yes
<spm> jml: to be fair - blocking is harsh - I'm still trying to get the apache configs setup as well. for such simple files ther's a mass of Aaaaaa moments in there. :-)
<jml> spm, oh, I see.
 * jml apologises for the unnecessary emphasis
<jml> btw
<jml> is the topic still relevant?
<wgrant> The first isn't.
<wgrant> Not sure about the second.
<lifeless> spm: is it metaprogrammable?
<lifeless> that is, can we write something to generate staging, edge, production apache stuff correctly, from one source & a listof machines?
<spm> lifeless: the apache config? doubt it. it's subtle and interesting gotchas between multiple IPs, SSL and varying domains.
<spm> eg. I'm splitting bazaar.launchpad.net to get baz.edge; but this ALSO impacts on codebrowse.launchpad.net
<lifeless> spm: Well, you're the one with the problem :). I will note that I got openswan configs fully automated some while back :)
<spm> heh
<spm> lifeless: tho this is an issue for us across the board - we've been looking at eg cfengine, puppet etc. time....
<spm> need more time.
<dtchen_> lifeless: forgive me for being dense, but which link should I be using?
<lifeless> up front vs chipping away
<dtchen_> lifeless: e.g., https://edge.launchpad.net/pulseaudio/+addseries ?
<mwhudson> i would still like to make the security of private branches less dependent on rewritecond
<lifeless> dtchen_: I don't know :) There is a help page about it.
<lifeless> dtchen_: We want to use the existing trunk series, don't we?
<spm> wgrant: I believe the first is still relevant; just that we've done some evilness to reduce the impact. "delete from table where...." I'm personally happy to leave that not in the topic till resolved. fwiw.
<wgrant> spm: The person who put it there has closed the bug.
<spm> hah. leave that *note*.
<spm> srsly?
<dtchen_> lifeless: I don't know if it much matters. (I think I found the url -- https://code.edge.launchpad.net/+code-imports/+new ?)
<dtchen_> ok, submitted. Many thanks!
<mwhudson> branch updates are thoroughly caught up afaict
<lifeless> dtchen_: on this url - https://edge.launchpad.net/pulseaudio/trunk
<lifeless> there should be an edit link somewhere, to let you change the branch
<lifeless> you should select the new pulseaudio trunk import
<dtchen_> lifeless: yep, done. Thanks!
* jml changed the topic of #launchpad to: Read https://help.launchpad.net for help | Help contact: - | Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Launchpad is open source: see channel #launchpad-dev
* allenap changed the topic of #launchpad to: Read https://help.launchpad.net for help | Help contact: allenap | Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Launchpad is open source: see channel #launchpad-dev
<allenap> henninge: Hi there, can I prod you to take a look at https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/rosetta/+question/90080 please?
<henninge> allenap: sure
<allenap> henninge: Thanks!
<henninge> strange, I did that this morning but must have forgotten to reply.
<henninge> allenap: thanks for reminding me ... ;-)
<allenap> henninge: Oh brilliant :)
<rowinggolfer_> greetings.
<rowinggolfer_> I am astonished at the speed with with packages in my ppa are being built at the moment. From upload of source packages to working deb is taking <15 mins at the moment.
<philip_stoev> hello, do you know how I can get notification for new blueprints and the status changes for all existing blueprints for a particular project? I am a member of two projects, and for one I do get all notifications, and for the other I get none, and I can not seem to find where the magic toggle button is.
<allenap> rowinggolfer_: That's great to hear :) What was your experience like before?
<allenap> philip_stoev: I'll see if I can figure that one out...
<rowinggolfer_> allenap, when karmic was being released, >24 hours.
<rowinggolfer_> it was getting to the point where I was going to ask my beta testers to run the latest bzr rather than wait for the ppa.
<allenap> rowinggolfer_: I heard something about lots of machines from the build farm being re-purposed to hosting the release ISOs or something similar. Sounds like they're back in the farm :)
<philip_stoev> allenap: thank you!
<allenap> philip_stoev: Looks like there's a very old bug asking for notification of new blueprints: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/blueprint/+bug/3765
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 3765 in blueprint "We need new spec notification" [Low,Triaged]
<allenap> philip_stoev: And I would imagine that you can only get updates for blueprints you're subscribed to.
<rowinggolfer_> allenap, makes sense.
<maxb> allenap: LP seems to have failed to process my push to this branch: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~svn/ubuntu/hardy/subversion/ppa - is someone likely to want to debug it, or should I just delete and re-push?
<maxb> meh, and now I *say* that, it goes and does it
<allenap> maxb: Heh, cool.
<philip_stoev> allenap: thanks for the information. The weird part is that I am getting blueprint status notification changes on blueprints I never visited in my life , so I did not subscribe to them.
<maxb> it looks like re-pushing, even though bzr said "No revisions to push" was enough to tickle LP to rescan
<allenap> philip_stoev: How odd. Do you have a link or two? I'll see if I can work it out.
<philip_stoev> allenap: this is the project I get blueprint emails from https://launchpad.net/mysql-sandbox
<philip_stoev> allenap: and this is the project I don't - https://launchpad.net/randgen
<philip_stoev> allenap: maybe it is that if the entire team is put into the Asignee field of the blueprint as it is created, then people would start getting notifications?
<allenap> philip_stoev: Do you have a link to a specific blueprint? I think it'll help if I start from something specific.
<allenap> philip_stoev: I would think so, yes.
<philip_stoev> allenap: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/randgen/+spec/simplifier-use-config-files
<allenap> philip_stoev: Ah, I meant a specific blueprint that you do get emails for.
<philip_stoev> allenap: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/mysql-sandbox/+spec/add-status-script-to-sandboxes
<allenap> philip_stoev: Yes, like you say, it looks like it's just because of the assignee. I can't find any other reason. Sorry to not have better news.
<philip_stoev> allenap: no problem, that would be good enough.
<allenap> sinzui: Thanks, you rock.
<soren> I'm confused.. Say I'm looking at https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~txaws-dev/txaws/trunk and want to see what r43 (lifeless' PEP-8 changes) is all about.. I click on it, and what loggerhead shows me is something completely different. How does that make sense?
<exarkun> Many of those links do seem bogus.
<allenap> abentley: soren noticed that links to revisions in loggerhead are on crack above. Do you have a few minutes to take a look?
<abentley> soren, allenap: The branch data is buggy-- if you run bzr log lp:~txaws-dev/txaws/trunk, you'
<abentley> soren, allenap: ll see it has a revision -1.
<abentley> soren, allenap: If you run reconcile on the branch, I expect you'll get consistent behaviour between loggerhead and launchpad.
<allenap> abentley: If the reconciled branch is pushed, do you think it'll break other people's branches, or stacking?
<allenap> abentley: The branch owner is an open team, so I could fix this myself, but I don't want to break the branch for others.
<abentley> allenap: It won't break stacking.  It's possible that people will need to pull --overwrite before they can push again.
<allenap> abentley: Okay, I'll get in touch with the team before I do anything then. Thanks.
<sinzui> henninge: My IRC went belly up.
<sinzui> I lost your last message or two
<exarkun> How do branches end up with buggy data?
<allenap> exarkun: I'm emailing txaws-dev about it, would you like me to CC you?
<exarkun> Sure, thanks.  exarkun@twistedmatrix.com
<allenap> exarkun: Cool, done.
<doctormo> intellectronica, flacoste: hello, are either of you at UDS atm?
<intellectronica> doctormo: i am
<doctormo> intellectronica: Are you in a session currently?
<intellectronica> doctormo: currently hacking downstairs in the bar
<doctormo> intellectronica: Be down to pick brains
<intellectronica> look forward
<doctormo> intellectronica: what do you look like
<intellectronica> doctormo: i look awful. don't get your hopes up
<doctormo> tshirt?
<intellectronica> doctormo: more helpfully, i am wearing a grey stripy long sleeve and hacking on a netbook
<intellectronica> and sitting next deryck who's hacking on a giant mac
<fab1_> Hello, is a mailing list admin here?
<fab1_> I would like to change some options for my list, especially the reply-to field
<fab1_> It's seems it's not possible on the LP admin pages, but can an admin change that?
<_koshi_> Hi. I deleted an unused series of my project springlobby earlier today, unaware that this would mean losing the translation setup/as of then unsynchronized new translations. Is there any way to get those back?
<thumper> _koshi_: I don't think so, but the person to check with would be sinzui, danilo or jtv
<sinzui> _koshi_ no there is not
<sinzui> There is some irony here though
<sinzui> _koshi_: your series was really assigned to junk project because we cannot really delete any series that has translation information. I have no idea how we could locate your lost series and move it back your your project
<sinzui> hence we say that deletion is permanent. The feature was added because users were creating series by accident. once a series has had actual work done on it, it is much better to mark it obsolete. You can then reactivate it later
<_koshi_> ah well, thanks for the swift answer anyways
<_koshi_> hmm, alright. i learned that much then
<_koshi_> should it have been obvious to me that i was deleting the translations alongside? aka how big of a fool have i been?
<sinzui> No, it is not obvious because the delete screen should have explained that would be deleted. It will say that about milestones. I will report a bug about this
<_koshi_> ok, my explaining of this will not need the 'i was a really big idiot' prefix then, only the 'i was a tad careless' one ;-)
<_koshi_> thx
<pkern> Hi, could some admin please process libinfinity's translation import queue?  I.e. https://translations.launchpad.net/libinfinity/trunk/+imports
<h00k> Greetings, I have a question regarding Mailing Lists for a LoCo team.
<beuno> h00k, shoot
<h00k> Well, the Wisconsin LoCo (http://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-us-wisconsin) does have a mailing list (https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-us-wi) but it is not listed under Mailing List
<beuno> h00k, listed in Launchpad?
<h00k> beuno: I am now the Lead Contact for the Wisconsin LoCo, I'm trying to get things organized properly:)
<h00k> beuno: correct, it isn't listed in Launchpad
<beuno> Launchpad deson't model mailing lists outside of launchpad
<beuno> (yet)
<beuno> so you just need to addd it to the descrption or something
<h00k> so the lists.ubuntu.com/etc mailing list is handled by Ubuntu, not Launchpad, correct?
<beuno> h00k, correct
<h00k> beuno: is this something to be implemented in the future?
<h00k> I did notice (yet)
<beuno> h00k, yes
<beuno> it's in our plans
<h00k> alright, noted.  I'll keep my eye out, then.
<h00k> Thanks for the help
<beuno> welcome
<sproaty> how can I get debuild -S to produce a .deb for me without waiting on uploading/buildng on LP?
<wgrant> sproaty: Omit the -S.
<wgrant> sproaty: -S means 'source only'
<sproaty> whoops
<sproaty> thank you, you've helped me many times here :)
<wgrant> lamont: Any issues with my lp-buildd branch?
<lamont> wgrant: only with pushing it back to pqm....
<lamont> working with bigjools on dealing with that
<wgrant> lamont: Great, thanks.
<wgrant> Now I just need to finish the Soyuz bits.
<wgrant> Stupid exams.
<lamont> though I suppose I should actually review it, too.
<wgrant> Probably.
<wgrant> The pkg-create-dbgsym bits were merged last week.
<lamont> wgrant: +1
<wgrant> lamont: Thanks.
<wgrant> lamont: Any progress on the 3.0 format front?
#launchpad 2009-11-18
<lamont> not sure - I need to check on one other thing tonight, and then I think I'll be dealing with it.  plan is "real soon" :(
<lamont> wgrant: was it you that was looking like an epoch-to-current sbuild diff?
<wgrant> lamont: I was looking for one of those, yes.
<wgrant> I hope I don't look like one of them, though.
<wgrant> That sounds messy.
<lamont> wgrant: heh.  s/like/for/
<lamont> wgrant: found it
<wgrant> lamont: Awesome.
<lamont> wgrant: I'll push it somewhere sometime soonish
<wgrant> lamont: Thanks.
<lifeless> is there a way to do a bug search over many products at once?
<wgrant> lifeless: Only over all targets, or a project group.
<lifeless> 'all targets' ?
<wgrant> lifeless: All bugs in Launchpad.
<lifeless> ugh
<lifeless> wgrant: do you recall if there is a bug for same?
<wgrant> lifeless: I don't know, sorry.
<mwhudson> clearly there should just be a box somewhere where you type in the sql of the query
<wgrant> mwhudson: YES!
<wgrant> Patches welcome? :P
<ajmitch> mwhudson: +1, it's allow so much flexibility
<mwhudson> "if ';' not in input" makes it safe, right?
 * ajmitch is glad that lp developers understand the true needs of the common person
<fmarier> i think i might be able to work with that and solve my problem too :D
<fmarier> when can we expect that fix? ;-)
<fmarier> i'm running into a weird repo signing error with my launchpad PPA and I'm not sure how to trace it through
<fmarier> i can "apt-get update" without errors on one karmic box but i get GPG BADSIG on another (same distro, same architecture)
<wgrant> fmarier: The broken one has a bad (possibly transparent) proxy in front of it.
<fmarier> ah, crap, that's quite possible, i switched ISPs recently :(
<lifeless> fmarier: hi, you should have gotten my gpg sigs
<lifeless> I did them last night
<fmarier> lifeless, yeah got them, thanks!
<fale> hi
<fale> Is possible to compile with soyuz for some distro out of ubuntu?
<wgrant> fale: Not at this time.
<fale> wgrant: I see, and is already planned?
<wgrant> fale: Nothing concrete.
<fale> wgrant: I see.. another question: would be possible, being a company, to help out with some servers for soyuz?
<wgrant> fale: I don't know. I'm just a user.
<micahg> wgrant: what do you think of limiting bug summaries to 200 chars?
<micahg> or 300
<wgrant> micahg: I bet that would make apport unhappy in some cases.
<micahg> ugh
<micahg> stuff like bug 484660 is ridiculous
<fale> wgrant: oh, I see ;). thank you for the info :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 484660 in ubuntuone-client "Ubuntu one simply doesn't work. I have tried unsubscribing and resubscribing. Sync occasionaly occurs, but only the folders appear to be updated. As far as I can tell, no files have been uploaded. This is a Karmic update over Jaunty. I have uninstalled and reinstalled and followed all of the miracle cures on the forum. Unfortunately AFIAC this system is not fit for purpose. I'm unimpressed with 9.10 in genera
<micahg> summary is a summary
<wgrant> micahg: There has been much worse than that :P
<mwhudson> fale: there are trust issues in having other people provide server time to soyuz
<fale> mwhudson: I can see this, but even with a company-to-company agreement with canonical?
<mwhudson> fale: i'm not the person to say, but i think the limit on capacity is more around sysadmin time for configuration and so on
<mwhudson> fale: but you could try asking 'bigjools' if you see him around
<fale> mwhudson: I see, thank you :) I'll do it :)
<switchgirl1> **launchpad staff** there is a bug with your server - wont support lucid
<lifeless> switchgirl1: what do you mean?
<switchgirl1> it times out when i try  to log a bug in lucid lynx 10.04
<switchgirl1> i upgraded
<lifeless> are you using 'ubuntu-bug' ?
<wgrant> switchgirl1: That's nothing to do with Lucid in particular.
<switchgirl1> yup
<wgrant> switchgirl1: Try entering a shorter summary to start with.
<lifeless> the bug page that offers suggestions can time out sadly, if you're searching across all of ubuntu
<lifeless> wgrant: shorter, not longer ?
<wgrant> lifeless: Longer just results in more FTI time.
<lifeless> wgrant: odd, most text indexes are more selective the more you give it
<switchgirl1> dont you mean tmfi?
<wgrant> lifeless: Reducing the number of terms makes it work more reliably.
<wgrant> I presume because it has to compare significantly less.
<switchgirl1> never happend on other distro's
<wgrant> It has been an increasing problem for some months now.
<MvG> Hi! Trying to push a bzr branch failed at fist try ("different serializers") but succeeded at second try: http://pastebin.com/m27e603bb
<MvG> Is this a bzr issue or a launchpad issue?
<thumper> MvG: this is a bug in the interoperability and choice of stacked branches
<thumper> MvG: it tried to stack on trunk, which is in an old format
<thumper> MvG: your branch is in 2a format
<thumper> MvG: the first attempt creates the branch but doesn't push (and doesn't set the stacked on)
<MvG> I see.
<thumper> MvG: the second push actually pushes the branch unstacked to launchpad
<thumper> MvG: there should be nicer fallback
<MvG> So it's all in bzr, right?
<MvG> Peng over at #bzr has given me a similar explanation. I'm writing a bug report against bzr right now.
<glen> why the launchpad translation discards the fuzzy items if i export the .po?
<glen> i.e if i add automatic merge back to branch then all the fuzzy items be lost that were previously present in bzr?
<henninge> glen: what would you expect to happen?
<henninge> instead
<henninge> glen: i.e. "fuzzy" translations are basically "wrong" translations. Since all translations may be used as suggestions elsewhere, rosetta discards these or else it might present wrong translations.
<glen> henninge: well i expect them not to get lost, but #fuzzy flag kepg
<glen> in import/export state
<glen> and what about the "let somebody to review" is that shared as suggestions too?
<glen> i'd relate "let somebody to review" with fuzzy flag
<henninge> glen: yes, suggestions are shared but are marked as such. It says "suggested in ... by ..."
<henninge> glen: suggestions may be "bad" but usually are not "wrong".
<henninge> glen: fuzzy strings occur when the original english text changes but the translation is kept. In that case, the translation is really "wrong", not just "bad" ... ;-)
<glen> well if i changed formatting in .pot, then all translations get lost. i'd rather see them as "wait somebody to review" so translator could easily unfuzz them
<glen> so i should save last .po files i have somewhere so translators could pick translations from there?
<henninge> glen: that would be a nice extra feature, I agree, but rosttas data model does not support that.
<glen> i.e before i let LP take control of the .po files by enabling to way syncing of .po
<glen> (and put that tarball somewhere on my personal homepage?)
<henninge> glen: probably.
<henninge> glen: I don't have a better suggestion to this atm.
<henninge> glen: see bug 312476
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 312476 in rosetta "Fuzzy strings lost after import" [Undecided,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/312476
<glen> i don't understaand what should be filled for branch name here to export translations to: https://translations.launchpad.net/eventum/trunk/+link-translations-branch
<glen> "trunk" it did not like
<glen> lp:eventum, lp:eventum/trunk not accepted either
<tim> hi, i uploaded a package to my ppa, which depends on another package from the same ppa ... the build fails, because of a missing dependency for this package, though ... is there a workaround for this?
<kapil__> is it possible to merge two launchpad accounts
<kapil__> that are both owned by the same 'real' person
<salgado> kapil__, launchpad.net/people/+requestmerge
<kapil__> salgado, thanks!
 * maxb looks askance at mozilla/chromium monopolizing the build farm. Again.
<[reed]> maxb: would you rather not have a browser?
<maxb> I don't use the dailies, and do use the Launchpad build farm
<lantash1> QUESTION: Can somebody tell me why no contributors are associated with translations, when the translations from the trunk series are uploaded to another series? While new translations are shared as expected among series, https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/lottanzb/0.5 only lists those people who have contributed since the upload, preventing me from making a maintenance release in the 0.5 series.
<lantash1> may be I should file a bug against rosetta
<SiDi> Hi there.
<SiDi> Mailing lists on Launchpad can be created per team, right?
<wgrant> SiDi: Yes.
<SiDi> Alright
<SiDi> How long does it usually last for a ML request to be approved? :P
<wgrant> No idea.
<exarkun> Will Launchpad ever support user lists?
<wgrant> exarkun: What do you mean?
<exarkun> Mailing lists that are user-oriented instead of developer-oriented
<wgrant> How does it not support them now?
<wgrant> eg. ~launchpad-users is one
<exarkun> I have the impression that lists are always closely tied to teams
<johnjosephbachir> I can't figure out how to download code from a project over the web. I'm pretty sure there used to be a way to do this....
<tsimpson> exarkun: a team is just a collection of users, they don't have to be developers
<johnjosephbachir> i'm trying to get this project in particular https://code.launchpad.net/~bzr/bzr.webdav/webdav
<tsimpson> johnjosephbachir: what's the issue you're having?
<johnjosephbachir> i want to download a tarball of the trunk, via the web, which i'm fairly certain i've done before on launchpad
<tsimpson> not from a bzr branch
<tsimpson> you need to use bzr to get the branch
<johnjosephbachir> okay. maybe i found it on another site (i do have a tarball of a previous version here)
<johnjosephbachir> tsimpson: thanks
<wgrant> exarkun: As tsimpson said, a team is just some collection of people.
<tsimpson> I think gitorious.org can generate tarballs of branches or tags or whatever git uses ;)
<tsimpson> that's the only place I've seen downloading a tar of a branch
<exarkun> Okay.  Thanks.
<johnjosephbachir> tsimpson: trac also does this
<tsimpson> trac does everything :p
<lamalex> Hi I'm getting an error when I try and assign a bug to myself
<lamalex> UnicodeDecodeError
<thumper> :(
<thumper> lamalex: can you please file a bug about it?
<wgrant> A bug exists already.
<wgrant> And IIRC it's fixed on edge.
<thumper> wgrant: ah, excellent
<thumper> lamalex: try using edge :)
<thumper> lamalex: so change the url to use "bugs.edge.launchpad.net"
<lamalex> thumper: thanks
<sproaty_> is there a way to see download counts for PPAs?
<wgrant> sproaty_: Not yet, although most of the code is tehre.
<sproaty_> cool. so it's counting current downloads?
<wgrant> sproaty_: No, although some amount of historical data might be possible.
<sproaty_> no big deal anyway
<sproaty_> I find myself obsessing over silly stats
#launchpad 2009-11-19
<micahg> I remembered a bug about making project/distro bug tasks interchangeable, is it bug 1334
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1334 in malone ""Also affects:" "Projectâ¦" and "Distribution/Packageâ¦" links should be merged" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1334
<micahg> or is there another
<wgrant> There is a specific bug for it.
<micahg> wgrant: would you happen to have the number?
<wgrant> micahg: Bug #80902
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 80902 in malone "Can't refile bug report from project to distribution, or vice versa" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/80902
<micahg> thanks wgrant
<micahg> oh, I was looking in malone, that's why I couldn't find it :)
<wgrant> micahg: It is in malone.
<wgrant> But I couldn't find it directly either.
<wgrant> I only found it from a reference in another bug.
<micahg> hmm
<micahg> now it comes up
<micahg> maybe it was there before
<micahg> I was searching for 'project distribution'
<wgrant> I couldn't find it because my queries included 'task'
<micahg> yeah, that was my first few searches
<fmarier> so I complained to my ISP that Launchpad PPAs are not working through their transparent proxy and here's what their response was: "Its due to the administrators of those hosts not using cache control headers. I will try to get int touch with them and apply a LART, it may take some time as its low priority. Best thing you can do, is suggest to them that they use cache controls like everyone else."
<Ursinha> spm: ^
<spm> wget -Sv ppa ==> Cache-Control: max-age=31536000, public
<spm> fmarier: which ppa in question?
<fmarier> spm, my own: deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/fmarier/ppa/ubuntu karmic main
<spm> intresting. my file in the test above came from the librarian; yours from the ppa server. most interesting....
<fmarier> (just realised that i should probably include the trailing slash in my sources.list to avoid the unnecessary 301...)
<spm> fmarier: what's the issue you're seeing - it simply takes ages for you ppa files to be notcied as refreshed - the main dexy ones as in?
<spm> indexy*
<fmarier> spm, i get a GPG BADSIG when I run "apt-get update"
<spm> awesome
<delfick> Hello, how do choose "won't fix" for the status of a bug report ? for me, it's blanked out and unclickable...
<Ursinha> delfick: I think you can only choose this if you're a bug supervisor of the project
<delfick> I am
<delfick> actually... I own the project
<delfick> how does one become a bug supervisor?
<fmarier> spm, I'm also getting the same error from http://nz.archive.ubuntu.com now (and my PPA seems to be fine today)
<Ursinha> delfick: you go to the main project page, and click on the yellow ! in the right side of Bug Supervisor (I guess)
<Ursinha> now not sure if it's the main page or the bugs page
<wgrant> It's on the Bugs page.
<mwhudson> don't see Cache-Control headers on say http://ppa.launchpad.net/fmarier/ppa/ubuntu/dists/karmic/Release
<spm> fmarier: urgness. sounds to me like the transparent proxy is being too aggressive in caching. holding stuff for too long; our fix would just enforce a faster timeout of same.
<spm> mwhudson: agreed.
<mwhudson> do see Last-Modified and Etag thoguh
<delfick> wgrant, Ursinha : hmm, can't see a yellow ! :(
<mwhudson> my brain is incompatible with the bits of the http rfc do with this
<spm> mwhudson: I've managed to purge it. used to have a copy of the 1.1 rfc dog eared on my desk @ $job-1. horrible stuff.
<delfick> except for "Edit bug mail subscription'
<fmarier> mwhudson, what arguments are you passing to wget to see those?
<spm> fmarier: -Sv
<mwhudson> fmarier: what spm said, -Sv
<fmarier> i'm using "wget -Sv -O /dev/null http://ppa.launchpad.net/fmarier/ppa/ubuntu/" and i don't get any of these headers
<mwhudson>   Last-Modified: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 01:11:23 GMT
<mwhudson>   ETag: "93fc132-1019c-4789aebc9a4c0"
<mwhudson> fmarier: well i guess we know whose fault that is!
<mwhudson> fmarier: i also don't see headers on that directory
<Ursinha> delfick: are you logged in?
<delfick> yeap
<spm> I suspect a bug vs soyuz at this point is in order. I'm not familiar enough with the intricacies of debs and apt and transparent proxies to just make the change
<fmarier> spm, should I file a bug?
<lifeless> spm: transparent proxies are just plain bad
<fmarier> lifeless, +1
<spm> fmarier: please  - I'll subscribe the losas to same
<spm> lifeless: +111
<lifeless> spm: there is one in NZ run by clear that fucks ubuntu dist-upgrades
<fmarier> that's the one :)
<wgrant> lifeless: +10000
<spm> I was about to ask... :-D
<fmarier> TelstraClear ftw
<lifeless> s/w/l
<lifeless> fmarier: so a TODO I have
<lifeless> is to whip up a squid config to add no-cache to the cache-control headers
<lifeless> then point folk @ that squid
<fmarier> spm, so I should file a bug against soyuz, right?
<lifeless> (many intercepting proxies honour cache busting headers)
<spm> fmarier: yup
<wgrant> So there is actually an ISP in NZ that has a transparent proxy?
<fmarier> yes and it doesn't make the interwebs go any faster :(
<mwhudson> i'd be surprised if there was one that doesn't
<sproaty> is it me or the little yellow circle "edit" button misleading in places?
<mwhudson> fmarier: who are you with?
<fmarier> TelstraClear
<mwhudson> oh you said just above
<sproaty> sometimes it opens ajax request boxes, other times it opens a URL -- always hard to tell which
<wgrant> sproaty: Yes. Some of the links are green, others are blue. But there's no text in those cases, so the colour doesn't show :(
<mwhudson> fmarier: is that the cable lot, or adsl?
<lifeless> wgrant: all of NZ
<sproaty> https://launchpad.net/whyteboard/0.39  - like here (probably can't see it since I'm the owner) - but there's many edit icons next to things like "No Release Manager" that opens a new URL, whereas the icons for say, editing a bug status is ajax'd
<lifeless> wgrant: for all intents and purposes
<lifeless> mind you telstra are just cheap, the southern cross cable should have capacity ;)
<ajmitch> you could say that about all NZ ISPs, being cheap
<fmarier> mwhudson, it's on cable
<mwhudson> fmarier: how is it, apart from the terrible proxy?
<fmarier> spm, i've just filed https://bugs.launchpad.net/soyuz/+bug/485151
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 485151 in soyuz "PPA GPG signatures broken when accessing launchpad via transparent proxy" [Undecided,New]
<fmarier> mwhudson, it's a bit early to say (i only started using it a few days ago) but so far i'm not too impressed
<mwhudson> oh dear
<spm> fmarier: ta; have subscribed the losas; so we shall see.
<fmarier> i'm glad i'm not on a contract though, i might be going back to DSL
<fmarier> spm, thanks!
<mwhudson> we were thinking of switching to cable when we move to welly
* spm changed the topic of #launchpad to: LP Codehosting offline for H/W update 0800-1200 UTC | Read https://help.launchpad.net for help | Help contact: allenap | Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Launchpad is open source: see channel #launchpad-dev
<mwhudson> maxb: hey, i build launchpad dependencies 0.57 for karmic
<mwhudson> maxb: does it still need to be rebuilt for hardy?
 * mwhudson is not here fwiw
<maxb> yup, and let's take the opportunity to fix the version too
<maxb> ah
<maxb> It would be great if someone could reassign the branches to ~launchpad-committers so I can push too
<maxb> By fix the version, I mean, call it 0.57~hardy1 such that the hardy version is less than the later series, as it should be
<RenatoSilva> can't we delete groups?
<maxb> groups?
<RenatoSilva> sorry, teams
<maxb> You can ask an admin for a team to be deactivated, which hides it
<RenatoSilva> we were talking about creating a group and we ended up creating two groups at the same time
<henninge> maxb: afaiu it is actually deleted (for all that it's worth).
<henninge> RenatoSilva: If you are the group owner, please add a request to the answer tracker.
<dreimark> how can I change my Contact Address in launchpad?
<henninge> *team owner* !!!
<henninge> ;-)
<henninge> dreimark: https://launchpad.net/people/+me/+editemails
<henninge> RenatoSilva: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+addquestion
<dreimark> henninge: thx
<dreimark> aha a I should have done a reload, thought it didn't changed
<RenatoSilva> henninge: thanks https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/90830
<RenatoSilva> code hosting offline in LP?
<RenatoSilva> how long?
<spm> RenatoSilva: per topic. ~ 4 hours in total; hopefully less. but.
<RenatoSilva> weird, I just branched a project now
<RenatoSilva> it's 6:30am here, and 8:30 UTC
<spm> RenatoSilva: that'd be a nice trick. the server in question is shutdown. :-)
<RenatoSilva> hmm, dir created at  05:57:25
<thekorn> hi,
<thekorn> wasn't there a nice error page on http://bazaar.launchpad.net in the past
<thekorn> all i get is this generic browser page
<wgrant> thekorn: The server is actually offline this time.
<thekorn> ah ok
<maxb> Would have been nice to have brought something else up on the IP address to display a notice
<thekorn> and as a super bonus, it would be nice if the same kind of message could be shown when running bzr instead of "[...]Please check connectivity and permissions, and report a bug if problems persist.[...]"
<maxb> It would be a bit trickier to make that happen for ssh
<rowinggolfer_> getting an error message with bzr push. ssh: connect to host bazaar.launchpad.net port 22: Connection refused
<rowinggolfer_> is the problem at my end?
<noodles775> rowinggolfer_: Codehosting is temporarily offline (see topic)
<rowinggolfer_> noodles775, thanks.
<RenatoSilva> from #bzr:
<RenatoSilva> RenatoSilva: bialix: in LP there's a section in the branch "Repository format:  Packs 6 (uses btree indexes, requires bzr 1.9)"
<RenatoSilva> bialix: it's eq to 1.9 format
<RenatoSilva> RenatoSilva: wouldn't one be interested in the "storage formats" like displayed in bzr help current-formats, rather than this specific internal info?
* mthaddon changed the topic of #launchpad to: Read https://help.launchpad.net for help | Help contact: allenap | Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Launchpad is open source: see channel #launchpad-dev
<gioele> hello
<gioele> I proposed to merge a branch of mine into bzr. I got some comments, changed the code and pushed the updated branch. What should I do now to make to tell the reviewers (and launchpad) that I updated the branch?
<gioele> Should I use the "Request another review"?
<gioele> or should I use "Propose for merging" again?
<noodles775> gioele: Launchpad will automatically update the diff displayed on your merge proposal, so no need to resubmit...
<noodles775> gioele: but it is worth replying to the comments on the MP (this will email anyone who has reviewed the MP already).
<gioele> noodles775: how long does it take usually? seconds/minutes/hours?
<noodles775> My general approach is to reply to a comment with my responses inline, and if it's worthwhile, include a link to a paste of the incremental.
<noodles775> gioele: normally within 10 minutes (afaik, but someone from codehosting can confirm), but codehosting was down for an upgrade for the past 4 hours.
<gioele> noodles775: ah, OK, I'll wait then. I don't want reviewers to see the old version when they receive the email
<noodles775> gioele: great. losa: do you know if the process that updates diffs on MP's back up and running since the upgrade?
<noodles775> s/MP's/MP's is
<maxb> RenatoSilva: That string comes from bzr itself, it's not an invention of Launchpad. Though I agree the command-line terse alias would be more useful
<RenatoSilva>  maxb: ok, hope someone change than in the future :)
<maxb> RenatoSilva: Looks to me like the bzr code doesn't make it easy to do the lookup from format object to command-line name. Which is probably why LP is set up to show the description, which is retrievable easily
<RenatoSilva> maxb: bzr xmlinfo
<maxb> bzr: ERROR: unknown command "xmlinfo"
<RenatoSilva> maxb: it's a plugin shipped with bzr 2, you may want the dev version: bzr branch lp:bzr-xmloutput $plugins/xmloutput
<maxb> RenatoSilva: It doesn't work very well. It tells me 'unnamed' in most of my non-2a branches
<RenatoSilva> maxb: #bzr told me it is a mix of formats
<maxb> Not xmloutput's fault, given plain 'bzr info' does too
<RenatoSilva> maxb: bzr info -v, will display the metadata that LP currently uses, but they told me that data are internal
<RenatoSilva> maxb: btw, do you parse the raw output of bzr info -v to get that info there in LP?
<maxb> heh, "I" don't.
<RenatoSilva> but do you know how is it done?
<RenatoSilva> maxb: I think if the storage format is unnamed, then that's what LP should display
<maxb> I have not found the code in LP, but based on grepping for the string in the bzr source, it looks like it's a simple matter of calling get_description() on the repository format object
<maxb> RenatoSilva: No, because that would be useless
<RenatoSilva> maxb: why?
<maxb> If I tell you the format is unnamed, you have no useful information
<RenatoSilva> maxb: why is internal data more useful than that?
<RenatoSilva> if unnamed is useful info or not, it is a bzr issue I think, not LP's
<maxb> Why do you think it's internal? It's a human-readable description. That's pretty external
<RenatoSilva> I prefer 'unnamed' storage format than cool internal data that sounds absolutely random and doesn't matter for the end user
<RenatoSilva> maxb: one from LP told the formats 1 2 3 4 5 etc way displayed in bzr info -v is internal information
<RenatoSilva> maxb: for example, if you use an old bzr version, and you look at a branch in LP
<RenatoSilva> maxb: and you see the format is 2a, you may know your old bzr can't work with that branch
<RenatoSilva> maxb: it's like a bzr info in LP
<RenatoSilva> maxb: current behavior is like a bzr info -v, (where verbose is not usually default in any tool, but it is in LP currently)
<RenatoSilva> maxb: I think at a 1st look you could see the overall format (2a, 0.92 etc) (I think it was that way in LP 2?), then in some other page we would have "detailed info" (-v)
<RenatoSilva> well, ideas :)
<RenatoSilva> when you cerate a merge proposal to trunk where you branch contains a merge from trunk, shouldn't that revision be hidden in the "unmerged revisions" section?
<maxb> No
<maxb> Because it's a revision in your branch which isn't in trunk
<RenatoSilva> ok, it won't get merged anyway, so no problem
<wgrant> Why won't it get merged?
<maxb> Or rather, it will get merged, why do you think otherwise? :-)
<wgrant> That too.
<RenatoSilva> the merge from trunk won't get merged into trunk
<wgrant> It will.
<RenatoSilva> why? trunk already contains the merged revisions
<maxb> But it doesn't contain conflict resolution you may have done as part of the merge
<RenatoSilva> ok you mean it will go in the history?
<RenatoSilva> maxb: oh I see, the history with merges is still veru hard to understand to me
<RenatoSilva> *very
<RenatoSilva> for example
<RenatoSilva> o.O http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/3403/65098324.png
<RenatoSilva> there are cases with dashed lines too
<maxb> RenatoSilva: dashed lines are not complicated. They just mean there is more history there than is currently being displayed.
<RenatoSilva> ok, all this is hard to get, hopefully the only thing I need to know is that when I merge and branch, things get working
<RenatoSilva> maybe someday I stop to understand that well
<sproaty> so how do I get my application into ubuntu's repository?
<sproaty> I think I accidently linked my project to Jaunty, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+source/whyteboard
<tsimpson> sproaty: if you want to get a package into Ubuntu, you should start with the MOTU at #ubuntu-motu
<sproaty> cheers
<cyberix> I'm trying to do "this bug also affects Debian"
<cyberix> What should I use as the bug tracker url?
<cyberix> I know the bug number, but Debian uses a mailing list for bug reporting
<tsimpson> the URL from the debian bug tracker
<cyberix> oh
<cyberix> didn't know about that existing
<tsimpson> bugs.debian.org
<cyberix> thank you
<jldupont> hi - I have a bunch of .deb repositories.  Is there an easy way just to "dput" those .deb in a PPA?
<jldupont> ... just a link would be great!
<maxb> jldupont: You can't upload pre-built .debs to PPAs, only debian *source* packages
<jldupont> so no binary packages then?
<maxb> All binary packages must be built by the launchpad build farm, not uploaded directly
<jldupont> @maxb: Oh I see.... if my package contains Erlang source file, is this supported?
<LarstiQ> jldupont: sure
<jldupont> cool!
<LarstiQ> jldupont: your package will need to declare the correct Build-Dependencies of course
<jldupont> so the debian/rules file is used to buld the package?
<LarstiQ> jldupont: yeah
<jldupont> Thanks guys!
<LarstiQ> jldupont: it's built as a Debian package, so everything that applies to building those applies
<jldupont> I never had to worry about debian/rules before... I built my own apt repositories without those before...
<jldupont> any pointers to a good debian/rules tutorial?
<jldupont> let's just say that http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/ch-dreq.en.html is thin on details...
<maxb> It is quite strange to build .debs without using debian/rules
<jldupont> @maxb: probably... but I pretty much figured out how to build one using bits & pieces of web pages...
<LarstiQ> ehm, so how _do_ you build one?
<jldupont> I am using a combination of Scons / make
<jldupont> with tools such as dpkg-scanpackages etc.
<LarstiQ> wow
<maxb> None of those actually build .deb files
<jldupont> @maxb: I don't have all the details OTH
<jldupont> I just know I've got it working: http://erlang-dbus.googlecode.com/
<LarstiQ> jldupont: apt-get install devscripts
<jldupont> now I need to add signing and so I decided to revisit my whole process.
<LarstiQ> jldupont: and invoke `debuild`
<LarstiQ> jldupont: from the base of an unpacked debian source package
<LarstiQ> jldupont: that will build your .deb
<jldupont> ... assuming I've got a good debian/rules file I guess.
<LarstiQ> jldupont: if it doesn't, it's a hint it needs work :)
<jldupont> ;-)
<jldupont> where do I drop my makefile?
<LarstiQ> jldupont: depending on how far from a good rules file it is, the lintian errors are helpful
<LarstiQ> jldupont: which makefile
<LarstiQ> ?
<LarstiQ> the upstream package one?
<jldupont> upstream package??
<LarstiQ> jldupont: what does your makefile do, exactly?
<jldupont> let's say I have a bunch of .cc files and .erl files I need to compile
<LarstiQ> right
<jldupont> you said "sources package"
<jldupont> and not binary packages... so I suspect launchpad will want my makefile to build stuff, no?
<LarstiQ> jldupont: yes
<jldupont> so, where do I drop my makefile in the folder hierarchy?
<LarstiQ> same place it is now?
<LarstiQ> jldupont: `apt-get source hello` might be helpful as an example?
<jldupont> hmmm... let me check this out.
<LarstiQ> jldupont: everything in debian/ is debian specific, and everything outside of debian/ is Debian orthogonal
<jldupont> right. cool.
<LarstiQ> so normally, you would have package/Makefile that just takes care of building the program
<LarstiQ> and then package/debian/ which takes care of packaging it up
<LarstiQ> specifically debian/rules for driving it, but debian/control is at least as important
<LarstiQ> jldupont: debhelper(7) is a tool that does a lot of the heavy lifting
<jldupont> I am missing a bit here...
<LarstiQ> jldupont: which bit?
<LarstiQ> jldupont: ( http://kitenet.net/~joey/blog/entry/ten_years_of_free_software_--_part_5_debhelper/ for a relevant blogpost by the author)
<jldupont> so Launchpad is only concerned with .tar.gz file, right?
<LarstiQ> jldupont: no
<jldupont> the .dsc also maybe
<jldupont> (sorry I am backtracking cos I am missing a bit here)
<LarstiQ> jldupont: and the diff.gz
<LarstiQ> (certainly the .dsc, if my reply wasn't clear)
<jldupont> ok.
<jldupont> I have peeked inside the hello stuff you pointed me to.
<jldupont> I see .diff.gz, .dsc, .orig.tar.gz
 * LarstiQ nods
<jldupont> in the .orig, I see no /debian folder
<LarstiQ> jldupont: correct
<jldupont> then I am utterly confused now.
<LarstiQ> jldupont: you'll find that in the .diff.gz
<jldupont> ah!
<glatzor> danilos, hello
<glatzor> danilos, could you join the user contributed data in software-center session?
<jldupont> .diff is a tar?
<glatzor> danilos, it is a double session.
<LarstiQ> jldupont: the orig being what one, as a Debian packager, would download from an upstream project. All the packaging bits go in the diff.gz and orig is left untouched
<LarstiQ> jldupont: no, a gzipped diff
<jldupont> makes sense.  You are being VERY helpful.
<LarstiQ> jldupont: note that 'apt-get source hello' will have combined the various bits into a hello-version/ directory
<LarstiQ> jldupont: in case you got a .dsc, orig and diff via other methods, dpkg-source -x .dsc will do the unpacking and assembling
<LarstiQ> jldupont: you might want to make use of http://mentors.debian.net/ or the irc channel/mailinglist
<jldupont> I am getting it now.
<LarstiQ> jldupont: or Ubuntu MOTU for the Ubuntu side of things
<jldupont> @LarstiQ: you are making my day!
<jldupont> ok now,
<LarstiQ> jldupont: gladly :)
<jldupont> my makefile will reside in /package
<danilos> glatzor, sure, in about 15 minutes, is that fine?
<glatzor> danilos, great
<jldupont> along with the rest of my source files etc
<LarstiQ> jldupont: yup
<jldupont> in /package/debian, the usual CONTROL files etc.
 * LarstiQ nods
<jldupont> along with the rules file
<jldupont> I use debuild to package it up
<jldupont> and then dput to upload it
<LarstiQ> jldupont: yup, that's it
<jldupont> on the other side,
<LarstiQ> and then the launchpad build machines will process it, produce a package or an error
<jldupont> Launchpad will build the package and inform me of any errors, wardning etc.
<jldupont> ... how do I get notified of errors?
<jldupont> snail email?
<LarstiQ> jldupont: yeah, do take care to sign the package with a key that is registered in launchpad
<LarstiQ> jldupont: email
<jldupont> ok
<LarstiQ> the email is sent to the account the key is attached to
<jldupont> Is there a way to know in advance IF there will be errors?
<jldupont> i.e. test run on my side AS Lanchpad would do it?
<LarstiQ> jldupont: not a 100% guarantee
<jldupont> hmmm.
<jldupont> so, how long is the full cycle?
<LarstiQ> jldupont: the kind of errors you won't notice locally are for example: forgetting to specify a necessary dependency you happen to have installed
<jldupont> check
<jldupont> so, turn around time is.... as fast as the web site ;-)
<LarstiQ> jldupont: you could set up pbuilder locally to guard against such things
<jldupont> launchpad.net is slow... at least on my side
<jldupont> pbuilder??
<LarstiQ> jldupont: pbuilder builds packages in a chroot
<LarstiQ> (or other isolated enviroment)
<LarstiQ> jldupont: it's the `pbuilder` package in Debian
<jldupont> ... a sort of VirtualEnv like in Python?
<LarstiQ> right
<jldupont> cool !
<LarstiQ> jldupont: the package provides the command 'pdebuild' which you call the same way as 'debuild'
<jldupont> ... and I'll catch missing dependencies...
<LarstiQ> but it copies your source over and does a build in a cleaner environment
<LarstiQ> yes
<LarstiQ> launchpad is like pbuilder, but remote, and higher latency ;)
<jldupont> it will create another enviroment... but where?
<LarstiQ> usually with more processing power than a lone laptop though
<LarstiQ> jldupont: /var/cache/pbuilder iirc, but that is part of setting up pbuilder
<LarstiQ> jldupont: for now, I wouldn't bother with it if I were you
<jldupont> got it.
<jldupont> let me get cracking and see how it goes!
<LarstiQ> ok :)
<jldupont> THANKS FOR ALL THE ALL !
<jldupont> FOR ALL THE HELP i meant
<jldupont> YOU ROCK!
<LarstiQ> np, hope it helps
<jldupont> I am sure it will!  I got by with MUCH less before!
<jldupont> @larstiq: Wouter van Heyst ?
<LarstiQ> that's me, yes
<jldupont> (of course... sorry)... I'll shut up now. ciao
<LarstiQ> jldupont: (in case you didn't know, irc clients have a /whois command that would, in my case, have told you that too)
<jldupont> I was just checking the Launpad site to see if there was a correlation with larstiq... but of course there was.... silly me.
<LarstiQ> :)
<jldupont> I am new on Launchpad... been using GoogleCode for long.
<LarstiQ> ah
<jldupont> @LarstiQ: usually, in a .deb file, the "layout" in the filesystem is all done... I guess I'll need to cp files accordingly in debian/rules ?
<LarstiQ> jldupont: usually, the upstream makefile has an 'install' target
<LarstiQ> jldupont: debian/rules calls that install target, with DESTDIR set (often to debian/tmp/)
<jldupont> got it. thanks
<jldupont> in debian/tmp ?
<LarstiQ> jldupont: a temporary area to gather files before packing them up
<jldupont> So I have to respect DESTDIR in rules file then...
<jldupont> important to know :-)
<LarstiQ> jldupont: well, you provide it ;)
<jldupont> ?
<LarstiQ> jldupont: debian/rules sets DESTDIR, package/Makefile should respect it
<LarstiQ> jldupont: if you have a simpler build process, you could do something like hello-2.2 does with `install`
<tsimpson> would this discussion not be better in #ubuntu-motu ?
<LarstiQ> tsimpson: probably
<jldupont> ... but Larstiq is SO helpful.
<tsimpson> well, you can _both_ join there ;)
<LarstiQ> jldupont: other people can be helpful too :)
 * LarstiQ is at his channel max, so that won't happen
<tsimpson> register and get +e from staff
<jldupont> what's "+e" ?
 * tsimpson is in nearly 50 channels on freenode
<maxb> +u, no?
<tsimpson> erm, yes
<tsimpson> +e is identified
<LarstiQ> tsimpson: irc costs me enough time as is ;P
<LarstiQ> but thanks for the hint, it's useful to know that is possible (nowadays?)
<tsimpson> it's a feature of freenode, has been for quite a while
<jldupont> I do not know what "+e" or "+u" are
<tsimpson> jldupont: ignore +e for now, +u is a mode set which lets you join more channels. see the output of "/mode jldupont"  to see your modes
 * LarstiQ gets back to his homework
<oly_> errk, can anyone tell me how to resolve different rich-root support
<oly_> bzr kept telling me i should upgrade my repository so i did but now seems to have stopped me uploading to launchpad :/
<oly_> does that mean the remote copy should be updated as well some how ?
<thumper> oly_: yes
<oly_> i tried doing an upgrade and it said that backup.bzr already exists :p
<oly_> is there a way i can remove that some how ?
<oly_> hum, can you ssh in to edit the files direct ?
<mwhudson> oly_: not ssh but sftp works
<mwhudson> don't use the openssh sftp client though
<mwhudson> as it doesn't have rm -rf
<mwhudson> lftp works
<oly_> okay what about filezilla as i am familiar with that
<oly_> ah the gnome client seems to work
<oly_> cheers for that, never realised i could do that
<mwhudson> oly_: np
<mwhudson> oly_: it's a bit weird until you get past the ~user/project/name part as that's a completely virtual filesystem
<oly_> yeah, well i am deleting those bzr upgrade files will try upgrading my remote branch and then see if i can upload my local changes
 * oly_ crosses his fingers
<mwhudson> cool
<mwhudson> bzr/launchpad should handle this better, somehow...
<oly_> especially for those who are not that familiar with version control
<oly_> its quite a steep learning curve i have found
<oly_> know how to deal with situations that arise
<mwhudson> yeah
<mwhudson> well
<mwhudson> everyone should just use the 2a format now
<mwhudson> and likely for the next year or so
<mwhudson> so this problem will actually fade a bit
<oly_> yeah, but i just mean things in general like bringing branchs back in sec
<oly_> s/sec/sync :p
<oly_> i am getting there though
<mwhudson> cool
#launchpad 2009-11-20
<mkanat> Does launchpad have any charting for bug-tracking?
<mwhudson> no, groan
<mwhudson> patches welcome
<mwhudson> jml might be working on it
<mkanat> Well, I was mostly going to mine somebody's mind as to how they were implemented, if they existed.
<mkanat> It's quite a thorny area, really.
<AnAnt> Hello
<kblin> hi folks
<AnAnt> I have removed tex-common_2.00 from a PPA, now, I try to upload it but it still gets rejected.
<kblin> the main source tree of a project I otherwise host in launchpad is kept in git. is there any benefit of importing that git tree into launchpad if I want to continue using git as VCS anyway?
<noodles775> AnAnt: you still need to bump the version - there is still a history of the previous publishing.
<AnAnt> no other way ?
<maxb> kblin: Some people find allowing people to post changes in bzr branches and use launchpad's merge proposal facility in a sort of semi-working fashion to be useful
<maxb> This is however frustrated by launchpad only supporting imports from the git masters
<maxb> * master branch
<kblin> maxb: I see. probably not worth the possible extra confusuin
<kblin> *confusion
<sraps> HI! I need help on several things regarding launchpad
<tsimpson> start by asking your questions :)
<sraps> Thank you :)
<sraps> Problem #1: we have several projects, which would be convenient to move under one "hat" project, how to do that?
<tsimpson> hmm, I can't see a way to do that
<tsimpson> sraps: I think you need a lp admin to set that up for you, you can ask at https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<wgrant> sraps: As tsimpson suggests, an admin can create a project group for you.
<sraps> OK, I see - here goes next one...
<sraps> How to set up project for translation if there is no supervising team for my language
<sraps> I have tried to follow the guedelines, but the translation file just lies down in the import queue for couple of weeks without attention, after that it just dissapears...
<tsimpson> I've never used the translations part of LP, so I don't know about it
<noodles775> henninge: ^^^ :)
<sraps> sad :(
<sraps> I could create supervising team by myself, but I do not feel so strong to help other people in managing entire language
<noodles775> sraps: It would be worth connecting with one of the LP translation people - henninge_ should be around at some point soon.
<sraps> I see, thank you! Do you know the time?
<dpm> sraps, what was your question? Perhaps I could give you a hand in the meantime
<sraps> I tried to configure my projects for translations, but as I have figured out, there is no supervising translation team for my language (Latvian), so there is noone to check the pot files. They just lie down in import queue for couple of wheeks and then dissapear...
<dpm> sraps, could you please point me out to the URL of your project in Launchpad?
<sraps> for example (I have several) - https://launchpad.net/transport
<dpm> sraps, looking at https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/transport/+imports I see that there is no POT template in the import queue. You will first have to upload a POT template before translations can be exposed in the web UI
<dpm> sraps, it might be worth reading https://help.launchpad.net/Translations/YourProject/ImportingTemplates for more information
<sraps> Have tried it for two or three times, it is there for some week or two, but then disappears without any action...
<sraps> have read that, I am not sure if I have understood everything completely, but as to me it should be there until someone from translation team confirms it
<sraps> but as there is no team, noone performs it... After some time system just drops it (?)
<henninge> sraps: Hi!
<sraps> <henninge>:
<sraps> hi
<dpm> sraps, the POT templates need to be reviewed once before the first time they are imported. This is a one-off process, and it is performed by the Launchpad Translations administrators, not the language teams. I'd suggest uploading the POT template again and pinging henninge
<dpm> hey henninge! :)
<henninge> sraps: I see that you have a file called en_US.po in the queue for transport.
<henninge> sraps: if that is supposed to be the template, it should be called something.pot
<henninge> sraps: We only look at pot files during queue review and that would explain why your upload went unnoticed.
<henninge> Hi dpm! ;)
<henninge> sraps: I can rename it for you to, say, "transport.pot" and set it up as a template.
<sraps> I do not remember exactly, but I have tried to import one named "*.pot" before, and again nothing happened
<henninge> sraps: once the template has been imported, the translations can start.
<rowinggolfer> sraps - are you going to volunteer for the supervising translation team ?
<henninge> sraps: I am sorry to hear that, I don't know what might have happened
<sraps> I am not so familiar with work in LP, but I can not see the problem if nothing just happens
<henninge> sraps: please tell me, if the file that is currently in the queue for transport is your correct template. Then I will rename and approve it.
<sraps> rowinggolfer: the proble is that I am not so familiar with LP and I do not know if I am able to do it...
<sraps> I am sorry, had a IRC client crash...
<rowinggolfer> sraps, do hang in there with the translations though... Launchpad is fanstatic for this.
<rowinggolfer> and there seems to be a really good group of volunteer translators
<sraps> Yes it is.
<sraps> henninge: please do it, and tell mee if there is something wrong with it :)
<sraps> as this is done asynchronous I am not able to check it by myself
<rowinggolfer> sraps - where do you host the code for "transport"
<henninge> sraps: the file looks good. Your are the author of the software, right?
<henninge> rowinggolfer: it is on LP
<sraps> henninge: yes
<rowinggolfer> henninge, not for code hosting AFAICS
<henninge> rowinggolfer: there are branches, though
<rowinggolfer> ok.
<henninge> sraps: if you host your source code on LP, you should go here https://edge.launchpad.net/transport/+edit and check "Code for this project is published in Bazaar branches on Launchpad" so everybody know about it.
<henninge> *knows*
<sraps> probably yes, I considered the option I have checked, because we do our development inhouse and push the code to bazaar from time to time
<sraps> although it is "main" repository
<sraps> We do all the dev by ourselves, and there are no external contributors by now
<henninge> sraps: for it to be hosted free on launchpad, it needs to be open source, though. It does not matter if you accept outside contributions or not ;)
<henninge> sraps: I approved the import, btw.
<sraps> I try to set up our pojects step by step, in order not to create many mistekes
<henninge> sraps: Now wait for the import cronscript to import it within the next hour or so.
<sraps> thanks for the import
<sraps> it is FOSS... GPL licensed
<henninge> sraps: cool
<henninge> I saw that ;)
<henninge> sraps: were there other projects that you had tried to upload translations to?
<sraps> no, I considered starting with the most simple one ;)
<sraps> will try to get familiar with the surrondings, and then set others too ...
<rowinggolfer> !question 91003
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about question 91003
<henninge> sraps: please remember to call the file "transport.pot" when you upload it again (for updates), that way it will be approved automatically within 30 min or so.
<rowinggolfer> https://answers.launchpad.net/soyuz/+question/91003
<sraps> ok, I will note that, thank you
<sraps> It would be great, if system would warn "not readers" like me, if we try to do something against rules
<sraps> henninge: I see you have translated several strings to German, that's nice :)
<henninge> sraps: what's "Driving Categories" referring to?
<rowinggolfer> so has "launchpod" stopped?
<jml> mwhudson, I'm working on it in my spare time.
<sraps> henninge: "Driving Categories" - the same as "driving licence categories" this is name of table which holds all the options
<rowinggolfer> who names the build machines at Launchpad? clearly someone with a sense of humour.
<rowinggolfer> "nannyberry"
<jpds> rowinggolfer: It's a fruit.
<jpds> rowinggolfer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nannyberry
<beuno> rowinggolfer, they name servers in themes
<rockstar> beuno, are you home?
<beuno> rockstar, yes  :)
<rockstar> beuno, HOORAY!  :)
<beuno> rockstar, hooray indeed. How's the last day of UDS?
<rockstar> beuno, quiet so far.
<vadi2> I can't assign a bug to ~turl. It says UnicodeDecodeError
<vadi2> Think he has some spanish characters in his name
<tsimpson> I think someone said it is fixed on edge
<vadi2> Yes, thanks. I was able to assign him now
<vadi2> Nice that the data is shared
<sraps> henninge: had another question - how should I name and import translation template files for several separate modules developed under one project, in order to be able to get separate po files as the result?
<henninge> sraps: usually these will have different translation domains. Use one pot file per translation domain and name the file like thatl "translationdomain1.pot, translationdomain2.pot, etc."
<sraps> ok, I see... Thank you!
<henninge> sraps: it is best to only use lower case letters and dashes (-) for the name,
<sraps> henninge: I will include your translation in next distribution, thank you for your quick action :)
<henninge> sraps: np, it was fun
<sraps> yeas, the module is pretty straight forward...
<sraps> I took a look at your LP profile, do you really know/use Esperanto?
<henninge> sraps: I can read it much better than write, talk or listen ...
<sraps> henninge: You are the first one, I have talked to, who knows one of those syntetic languages... I have always wondered  how people come to the idea of learnong one. Great!
<henninge> sraps: The internet made it very easy to get material ...
<henninge> sraps: you'll find a bunch of us here: ;-) https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-l10n-eo
<sraps> henninge: I was thinking of learning another language... was not sure which to choose... :) Esperanto was not on top of my list, actually it was not on my list at all...
* allenap changed the topic of #launchpad to: Read https://help.launchpad.net for help | Help contact: - | Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Launchpad is open source: see channel #launchpad-dev
<Flare183> How can I register a project to a team?
<Flare183> How can I register a project to a certain team?
<Flare183> nevermind I found it
<bjsnider> why are ppa builds being put off for multiple hours?
<maxb> bjsnider: Because there are so many of them
<maxb> demand exceeds supply of available builders
<maxb> Principally because the mozilla and chromium daily builds are currently using more than their fair share
<bjsnider> well you tell them for me that i don't appreciate it
<lifeless> maxb: We will be addressing this over the coming cycle
<bjsnider> you will be addressing the ppa build times?
<lifeless> bjsnider: what do you mean?
<bjsnider> lifeless, i just thought you were responding to what that person had said to me regarding the mozilla/chromium builds and ppa build times
<bjsnider> otherwise i'm sot sure what your last comment means
<bjsnider> addressing what over the coming cycle?
<lifeless> I was talking queue times
<lifeless> we'd need faster individual machines to change build times
<bjsnider> right, well that's what i was talking about
<bjsnider> i'm talking about queue times
<bjsnider> build time, queue time, whatever
<lifeless> so yes. I don't mean 'no more queues', but they should get a bit better
<bjsnider> they used to be very good untila  few months ago
<bjsnider> then things started to get pushed back for many hours
<lifeless> well there was a full Ubuntu archive rebuild
<lifeless> that hammers everything
<lifeless> for weeks
<lifeless> bigjools: you rang?
<bjsnider> what's that mean, you rebuilt old bsolete packages?
<lifeless> yes to find out what ones no longer build because newer libraries that are meant to be compatible are not
<lifeless> ditto gcc changes
<bjsnider> is it still going on?
<lifeless> I don't think there is one atm
<lifeless> you can look at the builders page to see
<maxb> Although rebuilds happen at low priority, (score=4) so they don't in practice have that much of an effect on normal PPA builds (other than making the overall queue time look huge)
<maxb> james_w: Hi - regarding the binutils-avr UDD import - you responded in the thread, but the import doesn't seem to have occurred yet?
<wgrant> maxb: Minor nitpick: rebuilds are -10, so they score below retried builds.
<maxb> oh, they moved? I'm sure they used to be 4
<wgrant> They were initially,
<wgrant> But after the first test, they were shifted to -10.
 * cody-somerville wonders if that bug he found the other day affects rebuilds too.
<wgrant> cody-somerville: No.
<cody-somerville> wgrant, because the ArchivePurpose is COPY?
<wgrant> cody-somerville: Right, which bypasses the main code path.
 * cody-somerville nods.
<wgrant> There is a slight bug at the moment where langpacks always come first in the rebuild, but that's not much of a problem.
#launchpad 2009-11-21
<jldupont> for building a package with a different revision # (package revision #), where do we put htis information ?
<jldupont> launchpad doesn't let me re-upload under the same version #...
<jldupont> I'd rather not bump my version #...
<mwhudson> jldupont: the version number is specified in debian/changelog
<jldupont> PLEASE help!
<maxb> he just did
<jldupont> mwhudson: ok, I'll try. thanks
<mwhudson> jldupont: if you changed something, you have to change the version number, them's the rules
<wgrant> It's not the same version, so it should not have the same version number.
<mwhudson> jldupont: if you just changed the packaging info though, you'd usually change the part after the '-' in the version number
<jldupont> I just need to re-package because I screwed up something.
<jldupont> the codebase is the same.
<mwhudson> or add a part after the '-'
<jldupont> I just messed up the package... not the source.
<mwhudson> right
<mwhudson> so make the new package 1.0-1jldupont1 or something
<jldupont> mwhudson: I give it a try. thanks
<jldupont> great.
<mwhudson> wgrant and maxb know far more than me about good taste in version numbers though :-)
<jldupont> :-)
<wgrant> jldupont: Also, they're not NMUs.
<maxb> jldupont: It looks like you are erroneously building 'native' packages
<wgrant> And you really do wnat to make them non-nativ.e
<jldupont> How do I fix that?
<jldupont> tintian was complaining about not seeing NMU
<jldupont> so I just stuck NMU
<maxb> So you've got your http://erlang-dbus.googlecode.com/files/erlang-dbus-0.3.zip ... now it's slightly more complicated as it's not a tarball
<jldupont> maxb: no no
<maxb> So first you repack it into erlang-dbus-0.3.tar.gz, since upstream don't give you one of those
<jldupont> the stuff on GC is not up to date
<jldupont> I am building locally ... no upload to GC
<bronger> For manual review of translations, is a waiting time of one week worrying?  The docs say "few days" so it may be okay and I wouldn't pester the admins.
<jldupont> I can do the full cycle to Launchpad with no issue
<maxb> ....yet you are using the same version number as that
<jldupont> yes
<jldupont> I mean the codebase is 0.3
<maxb> Right
<jldupont> just I messed up the packaging part
<maxb> So you take your erlang-dbus-0.3.tar.gz
<jldupont> yes
<maxb> and you rename it to erlang-dbus_0.3.orig.tar.gz, following dpkg conventions for an upstream tarball
<jldupont> well, no
<jldupont> I needed to change debian/changelog
<maxb> and then you set the version number in debian/changelog to 0.3-something
<jldupont> I am going thourhg a cycle now... I'll update you guys in a sec
<maxb> 0jldupont1 is a good value for something
<wgrant> This issue comes up to frequently that I think we need to stick an FAQ somewhere.
<maxb> And then, when you build the debian source package, you get a erlang-dbus_0.3-0jldupont1.diff.gz containing the packaging changes relative to the .orig.tar.gz
<jldupont> did all that... waiting for accept/reject from Launchpad now...
<jldupont> BTW, I am packaging another project... a dependency to erlang-dbus... epapi
<jldupont> http://epapi.googlecode.com/
<jldupont> "Within Temptation"... those guys ROCK!
<jldupont> accepted !! thanks guys!!
<maxb> err.... except you've not done what I said at all
<maxb> You've just made a native package with a dash in its version
<maxb> I wish dpkg didn't allow that
<jldupont> maxb: not sure what you mean.
<jldupont> newbie here... please explain.
<maxb> You haven't done what I said about using an .orig.tar.gz
<jldupont> I just execute "debuild -S -sa"
<jldupont> like @cyphermox told me
<jldupont> I get epapi_0.7-2_source.changes
<mwhudson> jldupont: do you know what a 'native package' is?
<jldupont> epapi_0.702.tar.gz
<jldupont> no I do not know what a "native package" is.
<jldupont> newbie here,,, sorry
<mwhudson> jldupont: debian packaging is not simple
<mwhudson> for better or for worse
<jldupont> (and I thought that Python PyPi packaging was tricky)
<mwhudson> trying to pretend it is doesn't really work
<mwhudson> but it's not that bad either
<jldupont> (thank god packaging extension for Google CHrome is much simpler)
<mwhudson> jldupont: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide is probably a good place to start
<jldupont> so, what's a native package and why can't I do one?
<mwhudson> the idea of debian packaging is to take an upstream release
<mwhudson> this is the orig.tar.gz
<jldupont> ok
<mwhudson> and produce a diff that adds the packagingn information
<mwhudson> (the .diff.gz)
<jldupont> ... but I am the "upstream"... that's my stuff
<mwhudson> if you don't do this, if the packaging is in the upstream tarball, then it's a native packaging
<mwhudson> jldupont: it's still the debian way to separate upstream and packaging information
<jldupont> hmm... I am closer to understanding... but not quite.
<jldupont> the sutff in epapi.googlecode.com
<jldupont> is my stuff. I am just trying to package it
<jldupont> for easier distribution.
<mwhudson> i'm not really an expert
<wgrant> It's still cleaner to separate the upstream code and packaging. Plus it makes for better version numbers.
<maxb> The point is: either the package is being built for Debian/Ubuntu itself *only* - in which case there is no separation between upstream and distro - and this is a native package - e.g. dpkg itself
<maxb> Or it's a piece of software that just happens to be being packaged for Debian/Ubuntu
<jldupont> maxb: right.
<jldupont> of course I'll consider packaging for Fedora.
<maxb> In which case, one upstream version, 0.7, may very well be packaged many times - e.g. for hardy, jaunty, karmic etc.
<jldupont> oh
<jldupont> I think I understand now.
<jldupont> what you are suggesting is that I name my pakacge better:
<jldupont> epapi_0.7-2_jaunty
<maxb> Hence a dash has a special meaning in a debian version number: it separates the upstream part of the version from the packaging part of the version
<jldupont> or something like it?
<jldupont> I am strating to grok it
<maxb> uhoh, no, an underscore is a separator for other things, you don't want one of those in a version number
<jldupont> so, epapi_0.7-2jaunty then?
<maxb> Reasonable
<jldupont> and when I get to karmic, I do epapi_0.7-2karmic
<wgrant> -2 sounds like a lie, however.
<jldupont> ??
<jldupont> oh
<wgrant> It should probably be -0, since -1 would be the first Debian version.
<jldupont> don't be too picky... newbie here
<maxb> -2 conventionally implies it's derived from an official debian package
<jldupont> ah!
<wgrant> But with the current proliferation of repositories, sane versioning is becoming harder.
<jldupont> there is convention there too... I get it.
<jldupont> point me in the right direction.
<jldupont> and I am happy to oblige
<maxb> Basically, it should start with a zero after the dash unless it's derived from a version in Debian
<wgrant> And ideally should be less than -0ubuntu1
<jldupont> epapi_0.7-0jldupont-jaunty
<wgrant> So that if you get the package into Ubuntu, the official version will supersede the one in your PPA.
<jldupont> ok
<wgrant> So you could do 0.7-0jldupont1~jaunty1
<maxb> Fortunately, 'U' is late in the alphabet
<wgrant> I normally do -0ppa1, because 'wgrant' > 'ubuntu' :(
<jldupont> I see
<jldupont> I get it now... you guys rock!!
<maxb> epapi_0.7-0jldupont-jaunty  <-- but dashes are special, so that one would not do what you wanted it to
<jldupont> let me resubmit to Launchpad now...
<maxb> jldupont: Your next problem is to deal with all the binary build artifacts that are messily included in the upstream tarball, and are not cleaned
<jldupont> yeah, I'll do epapi_0.7-0jldupont~jaunty1
<jldupont> ? mess in the tarball ?
<jldupont> from where are you taking this??? the source tarball is not on GoogleCode...
<jldupont> it is only on my machine... at least the tarball I use for packaging to Launchpad that is.
<jldupont> the one you may probably see contains the right source code... but that's not the one I am working from to package here.
<wgrant> Having multiple tarballs with the same version number but different contents is a very bad idea.
<jldupont> granted... I am trying to move away from GC.
<jldupont> I'll clean up.
<jldupont> I'll point the main page on GC to the one on Launchpad.
<maxb> Your hosting provider is irrelevant - there's still the concept of "the upstream tarball" which then gets packaged
<jldupont> maxb: yes
<jldupont> ok now... changes applied... shipped to launchpad... waiting.
<maxb> What exact version did you upload?
<jldupont> epapi_0.7-0jldupont1~jaunty1
<jldupont> I'll cancel the other one.
<maxb> will be rejected because it's a lower version than the current publication
<jldupont> !@&#*!(@#&
<jldupont> so then, how about epapi_0.7-3jldupont1~jaunty1) ?
<maxb> Launchpad should accept epapi_0.7-0jldupont1~jaunty1 if you delete the 0.7-2 first
<jldupont> I tried deleting stuff before... it seems there is a lag of many minutes... not fast enough... I want to get to bed at some point!
<maxb> There won't be a problem here
<maxb> As soon as you've done the deletion in the UI, it'll be happy to accept the new upload
<jldupont> maxb: are you working for Launchpad?
<maxb> Even if the files don't disappear from disk until some time later
<maxb> No. Just a contributor
<jldupont> I delete 0.7-2 ... can I dput now?
<maxb> yes
<jldupont> done
<jldupont> ... will it go through now?
<mrooney> Is there a delay for ppa dependencies taking effect?
<FFEMTcJ> I'm a little confused and I'm hoping someone can help me out.. During UDS it was mentioned about LoCo teams creating and using roadmaps...
<maxb> I don't believe so. It should take effect from the next build started after you reconfigure
<FFEMTcJ> In order to create a roadmap, am I correct that you need to create a project?
<mrooney> I've added some ppa deps to a ppa, uploaded a new package, I see the new package but it says it can't resolve
<mrooney> maxb: hm maybe the build started before, I could check
<jldupont> maxb: accepted!
<mrooney> I'll do anew upload but I'm pretty sure I had the deps before
<maxb> mrooney: You can see the actual apt lines used for a particular build in the buildlog
<mrooney> I don't need to do anything special with the deps in debian/control right, just the package name I need from whatever archive ends up satisfying it?
<maxb> yes
<maxb> What's the package?
<maxb> FFEMTcJ: 'roadmap'? What's one of those?
<FFEMTcJ> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/encouraging-team-roadmaps-and-planning maxb look at that
<mrooney> When the build machine builds, would it pull in an old cache or not?
<FFEMTcJ> sorry.. not roadmap.. blueprint
<FFEMTcJ> sorry maxb
<mrooney> The specific ppa is ppa:elementaryart/elementarydesktop
<FFEMTcJ> wrote what i was looking at not what i was thinkin about
<maxb> Right... a blueprint is a Launchpad thing, which may point at an arbitrary URL, which might be a roadmap
<maxb> And yes, blueprints need to be associated with a project or distro
<mrooney> Hm I see the ppas listed in http://launchpadlibrarian.net/35903735/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-i386.elementary-desktop_0.1-0ubuntu1~ppa4_FULLYBUILT.txt.gz
<FFEMTcJ> ok maxb.. thanks
<jldupont> maxb: Synaptic complains that my package can't be authenticated... what should I do?
<jldupont> maxb: I thought Launchpad was taking care of all the authentication bits.
<maxb> mrooney: yes, that's where to look
<maxb> jldupont: I guess you haven't trusted your own ppa then
<jldupont> where do I get the key file?
<jldupont> I mean, this must be made public, no?
<jldupont> sorry again for the newbie questions...
<jldupont> ok... got it I think: http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?search=0xEC7AE4B5E4179E846B8AE0CF1A1E287CA6E4A2FB&op=index
<jldupont> maxb: am I responsible for displaying this info to the public?
<jldupont> or does Launchpad somehow exposes this?
<wzssyqa> i have used dput to upload a package,and sucess.then i can't see it on my ppa.why
<wgrant> wzssyqa: You'll receive an email of acceptance or rejection within five minutes, as long as you've signed the package with a key attached to your Launchpad account.
<wzssyqa> wgrant: o ,i have not attatched my key to launchpad
<wgrant> wzssyqa: You'd best do that and upload again.
<wzssyqa> wgrant: o ,thx
<wzssyqa> wgrant: Launchpad could not import your OpenPGP key   why?
<mwhudson> have you uploaded your key to a key server?
<wzssyqa> i don't know
<mwhudson> wzssyqa: 'gpg --send-key'
<wgrant> gpg --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com --send-key YOURKEYID
<mwhudson> argl
<wzssyqa> argl?
<wzssyqa> upload sucess
<mwhudson> https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/UploadErrors -> "# The signing key that you used is not known to Launchpad, you need to add it to your account" -> links to https://edge.launchpad.net/+me/+editsshkeys
<mwhudson> which is actually wrong in two ways
<mwhudson> still, yay for wikis
<wzssyqa> mwhudson: if i want to make it for several distro ,how to edit changlog?
<mwhudson> wzssyqa: you can't
<mwhudson> the usual practice is to upload it to the oldest appropriate distroseries and then copy it to the newer ones
<wzssyqa> mwhudson: thx
<wzssyqa> mwhudson: Unable to find distroseries: Karmic why?
<mwhudson> wzssyqa: maybe it's case sensitive?
<mwhudson> karmic
<wzssyqa> mwhudson: PPA uploads must be signed by an Ubuntu Code of Conduct signer.  omg
<mwhudson> yep
<mwhudson> only nice people pls
<wzssyqa> mwhudson: i can't understand
<mwhudson> sorry
<mwhudson> you have to sign the ubuntu code of conduct before you can use a ppa
<mwhudson> the ubuntu code of conduct very roughly says "don't be a nasty person"
<mwhudson> wzssyqa: https://edge.launchpad.net/codeofconduct
<[BIOS]dnivra> i tried opening launchpad.net and i keep getting server is down
<[BIOS]dnivra> i tried doing this again after 5 minutes and same problem
<[BIOS]dnivra> is the server down or something else is wrong?
<[BIOS]dnivra> the page asked me to inform on this channel
<[BIOS]dnivra> is the server down?
<raziel420> it seems down
<wgrant> spm: ^^
<raziel420> getting 503 errors on ubuntu one login even
<[BIOS]dnivra> does this happen often?
<wgrant> [BIOS]dnivra: No. I haven't seen it broken like this in a very long time.
<raziel420> woulden't know, i just got back on linux yesterday after being away for almost a year
<[BIOS]dnivra> ok
<[BIOS]dnivra> raziel420: :O
<[BIOS]dnivra> hey I am able to ping the server, doesn't it mean the server is still up
<raziel420> i'm surprised myself, it took a year for xp to finnaly die on this machine, either i'm getting better at anti-internet or the other people who use my computer are finnnaly listening, plus tiny xp was actually the best xp i've ever used
<raziel420> i don't think your actually pinging the server, i think your pinging a backup server, which seems to only have the offline message
<raziel420> and yes the ip is probably the same, but the mac addy is probably different
<[BIOS]dnivra> hmmm ok
<Tanoshii> i couldn't get launchpad to work either, i gave up for now
<dailystruggle> Is it maintenance?
<[BIOS]dnivra> it's up again
<raziel420> [BIOS]dnivra: i'm not completely certain, but a load balancing cluster is likely for launchpad
<wgrant> There are a lot of machines behind the scenes, yes.
<Tanoshii> it's back
<[BIOS]dnivra> true
<[BIOS]dnivra> lot of machines drive these servers
<Tanoshii> i was trying the PPA Search works ok now
<raziel420> of course sadly, it's also likely that someone tripped over a power cord, and they all managed to go down at once, except the dns and backup "offline" page
<[BIOS]dnivra> raziel420: he he he
<raziel420> i know i'd have those either at a completely different location, or at least with a ups and a seperate plug
<[BIOS]dnivra> i think a completely different location should be the ideal one: no chance of it going down unless someone went with that intention
<raziel420> but it was probably maintnance, since it was just a few minutes
<raziel420> the problem with a different location is response time for the balancing dns
<raziel420> well i'm out
<wzssyqa> mwhudson: if have change my file ,how to re-upload?
<bronger> For manual review of translations, is a waiting time of one week worrying?  The docs say "few days" so it may be okay and I wouldn't pester the admins.
<qense> This week was the UDS, so a substantial amount of the devs were in Dallas discussing, rather than developing.
<qense> That could explain your delay.
<fcuk112> i just added my ssh key to launchpad, however when i try to get some source i get the following: http://www.pastie.org/708981
<mrooney> Hey, anyone around familiar with PPA dependencies on other PPAs? I added some last night, did two rebuilds, and this morning I still have unsatisfiable deps
<mrooney> which go away if I add the PPA deps myself to my machine
<mrooney> I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong
<qense> mrooney: I don't know much, but maybe you have to add the -dev packages as well? Maybe you already did that, just the only thing I can come up with.
<mrooney> hm, I don't think, it builds fine on LP
<mrooney> are those only the deps for building the package? does the user manually have to add the required PPAs?
<mrooney> I think that might be how it works
<mrooney> anyway if someone reads this and knows, please ping to me to confirm or deny
<geser> mrooney: if your PPA need packages from other PPAs, the user needs to have both enabled on his system
<mrooney> geser: ah okay, I was really confused, I thought PPA dependencies handled that, it took me two days banging my head against this to realize that only works for launchpad builds
<magcius> Does Launchpad have Code Review?
<magcius> That's based around patches and not Code Hosting?
<magcius> Because some of us actually like to use Git or Mercurial.
<jldupont> is it possible to publish the same package for more than 1 distribution? (provided it works of course)  e.g. Package X for jaunty & Karmic
<jldupont> anyone??
<geser> jldupont: you can copy a package between series
<jldupont> I guess I need to change debian/changelog and go through all the cycle with Launchpad anyhow, right?
<geser> only if you want to do a proper upload
<geser> for copying packages between series you can use the webinterface
<jldupont> geser: thanks.
<jldupont> Do I need a separate PPA per serie? i.e. PPA X1 for Jaunty, PPA X2 for Karmic?
<tsimpson> no
<jldupont> @tsimpson: I guess debian/changelog suffice to Launchpad then./
<jldupont> right?
<tsimpson> yeah
<jldupont> tsimpson: cool. thanks.
<tsimpson> you can also upload to a specific series
<jldupont> hmmm... checking dput options...
<tsimpson> you use "incoming = ~<lp_name>/ppa/ubuntu/<a ubuntu suite>"
<tsimpson> you can call it something like [my-ppa-<release>]
<tsimpson> then just: dput my-ppa-jaunty file.changes
<jldupont> in dput.conf I guess
<jldupont> right?
<tsimpson> yeah
<jldupont> ok, thanks for bearing with me... newbie to PPA here.
<tsimpson> but the changelog way is probably better anyway, as you can't upload the same version of a package to different releases
<jldupont> got it.
<jldupont> right now, in my dput.cf, I've got "www.wampserver.com/en/"
<jldupont> sorry...
<jldupont> incoming = ~jldupont/jldupont/ubuntu/
<jldupont> is this even remotely correct??
<jldupont> I think I have just cut&pasted from a tutorial ....
<tsimpson> it's ~<lp ID>/<ppa name>/ubuntu/
<jldupont> ok, check.
<jldupont> ... and the series is specified in debian/changelog
<jldupont> I get it now.
<tsimpson> yes
<jldupont> Now, let's say I want to pbuild for different series,
<tsimpson> but if you upload to "~jldupont/jldupont/ubuntu/karmic/" that will override what's in the changelog
<jldupont> ok, got it.
<jldupont> then I am not forced to go through a full build cycle...
<jldupont> except I have to a package name more generic...
<jldupont> i.e. not with the series in the filename...
<jldupont> right?
<jldupont> right now, I've got "epapi_0.7-0jldupont1~jaunty2
<jldupont> wait, I thought the "series" parameter needs to appear in debian/changelog...
<tsimpson> it does, you're just changing the version of the package so the binaries (.debs) don't conflict with each other
<tsimpson> you'll have to build for each series you want unfortunately, so you'd need to change the version to "epapi_0.7-0jldupont1~karmic1" for example, then debuild -S and dput the changes
<jldupont> ... but once I fiddle with debian/changelog, I have to go through the full pbuilder cycle, no??
<tsimpson> you don't pbuild anything
<tsimpson> launchpad does the building
<tsimpson> you just upload the source (the .orig.tar.gz, .dsc, .diff.gz and .changes)
<jldupont> I know pbuild isn't stricly required... I just want to make sure it builds on my side
<jldupont> before waiting many hours for Launchpad...
<jldupont> I guess if I am confident enough, I skip the pbuild step...
<tsimpson> unless you want to test build on every release, let LP do it for you :)
<jldupont> right.
<jldupont> I just need to be patient I guess.
<jldupont> for pbuilder, I need to use a separate VM per series I guess... right?
<tsimpson> a separate chroot, yeah
<jldupont> separate chroot... hmmm... how do I do that...?
<jldupont> I followed https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<tsimpson> you need to create each one with something like "pbuilder --create [--basetgz karmic-base.tgz --distribution karmic"
<jldupont> oh yes... sorry... makes sense.
<jldupont> cool... thanks again.
<tsimpson> :)
<jldupont> and when I do "pbuilder build",
<jldupont> pbuilder will switch to the appropriate chroot environment?
<tsimpson> no, you have to do that manually ;)
<jldupont> based on what is in the .dsc file?
<tsimpson> pbuilder --build --basetgz karmic-base.tgz --distribution karmic <file.dsc>
<tsimpson> it's a pain
<jldupont> that's my line in my makefile: @cd "/tmp/$(PRJ)/" && sudo pbuilder build *.dsc
<jldupont> I don't see a reference to a series...
<jldupont> tsimpson: are you sure you need the "--distribution" switch?
<tsimpson> this is my ~/.pbuilderrc: http://paste.ubuntu.com/324756/
<tsimpson> you may not, but I tend to use it for the above
<tsimpson> then I don't need to worry about the --basetgz part
<tsimpson> or I can just do "sudo pbuilder --build ../<file>.dsc" and it'll figure out the distribution for me
<tsimpson> (from inside the source dir)
<jldupont> that means that when I do "pbuilder create", I have to specify a $DIST-base.tgz, right?
<tsimpson> with that .pbuilderrc you should just have to do "sudo pbuilder --create --distribution <dist>" and it'll do the rest
<tsimpson> the name of the basetgz is figured out from the distribution
<jldupont> yes right... unlike what they say in the tutorial then....
<jldupont> sudo pbuilder create --debootstrapopts --variant=buildd
<tsimpson> yeah, if you don't specify a distribution, it'll use your current one (the output from "lsb_release --short --codename")
<jldupont> right.
<tsimpson> it just makes my life that little bit easier :)
<jldupont> cool.
<jldupont> I want that too ;-)
<jldupont> oopppsss... just doing "sudo pbuilder --create --distribution karmic" on my jaunty machine doesn't work...
<jldupont> help !
<jldupont> E: No such script: /usr/share/debootstrap/scripts/karmic
<jldupont> help!
<tsimpson> install debootstrap from -backports
<tsimpson> or just add a symlink manually
<tsimpson> they all point to /usr/share/debootstrap/scripts/gutsy
<jldupont> nice to know !
<jldupont> is that what you do, just symlink?
<tsimpson> ls -l /usr/share/debootstrap/scripts/karmic
<tsimpson> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 5 2009-10-30 02:42 /usr/share/debootstrap/scripts/karmic -> gutsy
<tsimpson> so just "sudo -i" then "cd  /usr/share/debootstrap/scripts/; ln -s gutsy karmic"
<tsimpson> done
<jldupont> done... cool!
<Gandalfar> when creating own PPA, I don't see a button to "activate" it? Do I have to wait for the first build? Is there a way to see a status of the build?
<jldupont> it activates itself when it is built correctly.
<Gandalfar> can I see any progress on the build or ETA until build starts?
<jldupont> tsimpson: don't you have a typo in your .pbuilderrc?  DISTROBUTION ?
<jldupont> @Gandalfar: there is a link through your PPA homepage somewhere.
<tsimpson> jldupont: ohh, thanks
<Gandalfar> ah
<Gandalfar> it showed up now!
<Gandalfar> excited :)
<Gandalfar> >>  Pending (2505) , what does the number mean?
<jldupont> it is a "score"... there is a man page somewhere on LP.
<jldupont> i.e. package pending build.
<Gandalfar> ah
<tsimpson> https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/BuildScores
<Gandalfar> I thought it's ETA :)
<jldupont> funny!
<tsimpson> the higher the score, the earlier it'll build
<Gandalfar> maybe I should just do a binary upload
<jldupont> you can't
<Gandalfar> ahh, found the ETA :)
<jldupont> is there a robot for the common questions?
<Lostinspace_46> I am setting up a PPA.  All has gone well until launchpad sends me the code of conduct I have to sign and send back.  If I sign it and send it back I get a message that says the text is not the same as the code of conduct.  If I send it unsigned I get a message that says contains no data.  How might I fix this?
<jldupont> seems like a cut&paste error...
<Lostinspace_46> I have checked the text word for word in the pasted area before I submit
<Gandalfar> Lostinspace_46, did you paste the signature part also?
<Lostinspace_46> Gandalfar,  Yes I did, that's when I get the "text is not the same" message
<Gandalfar> hmm, I wgeted the code .txt file and then ran the signature, cat-ed the result and copy/pasted using firefox
<Gandalfar> s/signature/gpg signing
<tsimpson> have you imported your gpg signature?
<tsimpson> and make sure you download from: https://launchpad.net/codeofconduct/1.0.1/+download
<tsimpson> rather than copy + paste
<Lostinspace_46> Gandalfar, I did notice there is a begin and an end for the signature but only a begin for begin signed message.  also the acs file won't open with "verify sigmature"
<Lostinspace_46> Yes i imported the sig
<Gandalfar> it looks there is a problem with your signature process
<Gandalfar> like you're missing last line or something
<Gandalfar> fun, my build failed
<Lostinspace_46> I used the email that was sent, I will try the download. thanks and I will be back in a few.  Also the missing line crossed my mind.
<jldupont> Gandalfar: ... time to setup a "pbuilder" environement ;-)
<Gandalfar> jay
<Gandalfar> do you have doc handy? :)
<jldupont> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<Gandalfar> thanks :)
<jldupont> I am documenting on my end as I go along.
<Lostinspace_46> Understand that most of this is a bit beyond me.  But I know a working openoffice 3.1.1 is available at launchpad.  That is the reason I am doing this.
<Lostinspace_46> I assume I need a PPA to access a PPA
<Gandalfar> Lostinspace_46, you don't need PPA
<Gandalfar> Lostinspace_46, you can grab PPA as anonymous user
<Gandalfar> you need PPA env only if you want to make your own PPA repository, as in .. you're a developer
<Lostinspace_46> Gandalfar,  AARRRGGHHH!!  I spent hours trying to get this to work
<Gandalfar> well, the good news is .. you can stop now :)
<Gandalfar> Lostinspace_46, https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA/InstallingSoftware
<Gandalfar> even though, this guide looks a bit unfriendly
<Lostinspace_46> Gandalfar,  Thanks I am checking that now. Back in a few, and thanks
<Gandalfar> hmm, I guess I created a bad pbuilder repository
<Gandalfar> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<Gandalfar>   pbuilder-satisfydepends-dummy: Depends: libplot-dev which is a virtual package.
<Gandalfar> The following actions will resolve these dependencies:
<jldupont> where is "libplot-dev" located?
<jldupont> maybe you need OTHERMIRROR ?
<Gandalfar> universe
<jldupont> then, .pbuilderrc COMPONENTS is missing.
<Gandalfar> I see
<Gandalfar> found it in the faq now :)
<jldupont> cyphermox: is there a robot sitting around here?
<jldupont> for common queries etc.
<Lostinspace_46> Copy the first line from the apt sources.list entries section of the PPA overview page.  I can't find that page :(  No laughing at the noob, now..lol
<Gandalfar> Lostinspace_46, which ppa are you trying to install?
<Lostinspace_46> Openoffice 3.1.1
<Gandalfar> url?
<Lostinspace_46> Gandalfar,  LOL..I think that is what I am trying to find
<Gandalfar> PPA repositories are very specific
<Gandalfar> you need to get a link to one first
<Gandalfar> go to the source of your ifnormation about this OOo 3.1.1 and they should have it
<Lostinspace_46> Gandalfar,  OK let me see what I can do.
<jldupont> To whoever cares: http://docs.google.com/View?id=dgstxrxv_443fx3845cr
<jldupont> I'll be documenting the LP process (to some extent)
<Gandalfar> jldupont, turn around first part
<jldupont> ?
<Gandalfar> jldupont, introduce correct .builderrc first and then sudo command
<jldupont> oh , ic
<jldupont> better?
<Gandalfar> yep :)
<Gandalfar> can I kill a build?
<wgrant> No.
<Gandalfar> I hope it doesn't recurse but just dies
<Gandalfar> err, fails
<Gandalfar> wgrant, who can kill it?
<Gandalfar> it's this one - https://launchpad.net/~gandalf/+archive/pspp/+build/1358375
<wgrant> Gandalfar: Only a sysadmin, none of whom are likely to be around at the moment.
<Gandalfar> will the system autokill it after a while?
<wgrant> If it stops producing output for a couple of hours, yes.
<wgrant> Otherwise somebody will notice it has been going for ages and kill it manually.
<Gandalfar> it's recursing in the ./configure part
<Gandalfar> so the output will keep going
<wgrant> Ah.
<Gandalfar> maybe there is an admin channel or something where it's possible to raise this before it kills buildd for a couple of hours
<mwhudson> unlikely to get a response on a sunday
<Gandalfar> :(
<Gandalfar> at least I learned how to test my builds prior to upload in pbuilder
<mwhudson> i mentioned it in the company sysadmin channel anyway in case someone with permissions happens to see it
<Gandalfar> k, thanks :)
<wgrant> I really should fix the abort feature.
<wgrant> I know why the backend of it is broken now.
<Gandalfar> wgrant, would uploading a newer version kill the current job?
<wgrant> Gandalfar: No.
<wgrant> Gandalfar: It probably should, but that hasn't been implemented.
<wgrant> Gandalfar: The queue will clear in a couple of hours, at which point a single builder out of action will not matter much.
<Gandalfar> ok :)
<fta> this build seems stuck since yesterday: https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozilla-daily/+archive/ppa/+build/1354329
<wgrant> bohrium again.
<wgrant> It likes doing that.
#launchpad 2009-11-22
<Lostinspace_46> I had to leave for a while. How do I search for a PPA on the launchpad site?
<wgrant> Lostinspace_46: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas
<Lostinspace_46> wgrant, Thank you sir!
<dhart> which issue tracker does launchpad import from most easily? e.g. bugzilla, etc.
<Lostinspace_46> wgrant,  I think this is the page I need to D/L from.  Is this url what I need to put in my software sources?  And if so, is the 846550 the key>
<Lostinspace_46> https://launchpad.net/~bugbear5/+archive/ooo-jaunty/+sourcepub/846550/+listing-archive-extra
<Gandalfar> are you running jaunty?
<Lostinspace_46> yes I am
<wgrant> Lostinspace_46: How did you get to that page?
<Lostinspace_46> By searching at the page you gave me.
<wgrant> That didn't take you directly there.
<Gandalfar> https://launchpad.net/~bugbear5/+archive/ooo-jaunty
<Gandalfar> try this
<Gandalfar> Lostinspace_46, or just upgrade to karmic
<Lostinspace_46> wgrant,  sorry, first it took me to https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas?name_filter=openoffice
<Lostinspace_46> wgrant,  and I clicked on theopen office file and that took me to the page I gave you
<Lostinspace_46> Gandalfar,  I did that and my wi.fi was like going back to dial-up...well worse actually
<wgrant> Lostinspace_46: No, it didn't. There was a page in between those two, which is the one with the relevant instructions.
<Lostinspace_46> wgrant,  One sec while I retrace my steps
<dhart> whois AndyHempel
<Lostinspace_46> wgrant,  first the page you sent me to, there I did a search for open office, which took me here https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas?name_filter=openoffice, where I clicked on OpenOffice 3.1.1.org for Jaunty, which took me here https://launchpad.net/~bugbear5/+archive/ooo-jaunty, where I clicked on view package details, which took me to https://launchpad.net/~bugbear5/+archive/ooo-jaunty/+packages where I clicked on  openof
<Lostinspace_46> fice.org - 1:3.1.1-1ubuntu1~jaunty1  which showed me a drop down with details, and for the life of me I can't remember how I got from there to https://launchpad.net/~bugbear5/+archive/ooo-jaunty/+sourcepub/846550/+listing-archive-extra.
<wgrant> Lostinspace_46: Go back to that second page.
<Lostinspace_46> wgrant,  one sec
<wgrant> Lostinspace_46: It has installation instructions.
<Lostinspace_46> wgrant,  This page,https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas?name_filter=openoffice or the next one?
<wgrant> Lostinspace_46: https://launchpad.net/~bugbear5/+archive/ooo-jaunty
<Lostinspace_46> wgrant,  AHA, when I clicked on the "not using karmic?" the drop down gave me the URL and key
<wgrant> Lostinspace_46: Exactly.
<Lostinspace_46> wgrant,  I simply didn't notice that the first time around. I knew what to put where, but couldn't find the what...lol
<wgrant> Lostinspace_46: Yep.
<Lostinspace_46> wgrant,  Thank you so much. From here I think I have it now...you're a life saver!
<wgrant> Lostinspace_46: No problem.
<Lostinspace_46> wgrant, I have put the URL and the key into my "software sources"  Will there be a wait before it shows up under the "origin" tab in Synaptic?
<Lostinspace_46> wgrant, I have put the URL and the key into my "software sources"  Will there be a wait before it shows up under the "origin" tab in Synaptic?  I noticed you got D/C so I figured you might not have seen this the first time.
<micahg> there's a builder stuck...https://edge.launchpad.net/builders/bohrium
<wgrant> micahg: Yeah, bohrium often gets stuck while downloading build-depends.
<micahg> wgrant: is this the place to report stuff like that or is there a new channel for it?
<wgrant> micahg: This is probably as good as any.
<wgrant> But it is the weekend.
<micahg> ok
<pkern> Hi, are the translation import queues processed at all?  Could one get clearance to just upload files for a project?  https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/libinfinity/trunk/+imports is waiting for a week.
<LarstiQ> is anyone else having trouble logging into identi.ca with launcpad openid?
<hakaishi> Hi folks, I don't kow what to do anymore... I just want to upload my sources to launchpad... but nothing happens, no errors no email no upload...  https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/91123 can't anybody help me?
<rigolo> good afternoon ...
<rigolo> I am trying to view this file: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Emythbuntu/mythbuntu/mythbuntu-weekly-build/annotate/head%3A/build_trunk.sh
<rigolo> but then I get an error ... tried a couple of times .. and the followed to advice of the error page to come here :-)
<hakaishi> @all is there any support / help channel for launchpad?
<LarstiQ> hakaishi: I think this would be it
<LarstiQ> hakaishi: have you signed the upload with a gpg key attached to your launchpad account?
<hakaishi> yes, I did
<hakaishi> LarstiQ: could you take a look at https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/91123 ?
 * LarstiQ did
<LarstiQ> I can think of 3 reasons why you would not see any change
<LarstiQ> 1) gpg key 2) uploaded to somewhere else 3) processing being slow
<hakaishi> I guess it's 2) but, what could I have done wrong there?
<LarstiQ> your dput config looks fine to me
<hakaishi> LarstiQ: It can't possibly be my sourcecode or sourcetree?
<LarstiQ> hakaishi: I don't think that would be possible, no :)
<hakaishi> okay, that's a relief ^^
<LarstiQ> hakaishi: I'm afraid you'll need help from an LP person
 * LarstiQ can't troubleshoot it further
<hakaishi> oops
<hakaishi> LarstiQ: sorry my computer just went off... Do you know somebody, who could help me further?
<LarstiQ> hakaishi: staff, but it's sunday in most parts of the world
<hakaishi> LarstiQ: -.- okay... then I'll try tomorrow again. Thankyou.
<LarstiQ> hakaishi: (and specifically cprov isn't online atm)
<ricli85> does the launchpad translation service show gettext comments?
<jldupont> I am a bit confused with https://code.launchpad.net/
<jldupont> I am coming from GoogleCode and I'd like to register a project on LP
<jldupont> I only see "Register a branch" and "Import your project".
<jldupont> How do I register & host a project on LP ??
<jldupont> I don't want to import from another SVN/
<jldupont> anyone?
<mok0> jldupont: You can register a new project from Launchpad's main page
<jldupont> https://launchpad.net/ ... I see now... strange there isn't such a shortcut on code.lp ...
<mok0> jldupont: https://launchpad.net/projects/+new
<jldupont> mok0: thanks.
<jldupont> still, strange that it isn't also present on code.launchpad.net , no?
<pkern> jldupont: When your project is registered you can name a branch as the trunk series.
<pkern> jldupont: The branch needs a user or team to host it.
<jldupont> pkern: thanks!
<jldupont> I already have a user there (jldupont) and a PPA with packages already.
<jldupont> Is that sufficient?
<jldupont> I guess from your note, I'll need to "attach"/bind a "branch"
<jldupont> to a project afterwards,... no?
<pkern> jldupont: Yep.  You need to create it in your account first.
<jldupont> ok, cheers.
<pkern> jldupont: I think you can name the project when registering, though.  And then afterwards you can make it special.
<jldupont> special?
<jldupont> special: is that a specific LP thingie ?
<jldupont> (newbie at LP here)
<thumper> jldupont: If you file a bug about there not being a link to register a project, I'll try to get it done (otherwise it tends to get forgotten behind all the others)
<toddyhb> Launchpad is not available at the moment?
<thumper> toddyhb: is for me?
<thumper> toddyhb: which bit?
<porthose_> is launchpad currently down for maintenance or is it my connection?
<toddyhb> I write in the firefox http://launchpad.net and get "Sorry, there was a problem connecting to the Launchpad server. " and so on
<proDOOMman> The same problem
<toddyhb> I think it is down porthose_
<cellofellow> I'm getting the "sorry, there was a problem connecting to the Launchpad server" error, said to check in here.
<porthose_> yea that's what I thought :(
<faheem_> i'm getting https://launchpad.net/offline.html
<thumper> oh crap
<thumper> edge is working
<thumper> but not prod
<jono> hi all
<jono> LP seems to be down
<thumper> jono: hi
<bognarandras> hi
 * porthose_ waves 
<thumper> jono: yeah, just checking
<jono> :)
<stx_UK> Er, same here (LP down). But also have a suggestion/request, if I may?
<thumper> it is being looked at right now
<thumper> edge.launchpad.net appears fine
<thumper> so you could try that
<jjmarin> I suppose everybody knows that launchpad.net is done, doesn't it ?
<mwhudson> jjmarin: yes
<mwhudson> jjmarin: edge is ok
<jjmarin> g/done/down/
<toddyhb> no, edge.launchpad.net works not for me. only the start site. I have add something in the search field and than the same error
<stx_UK> Oh, wiki.ubuntu.com times out for me too, which room to mention that in? :)
<seangarner> toddyhb It's only teh global search that's broken afaict
<seangarner> Either browse or use the search for each section of LP.
<toddyhb> jeah, thanks seangarner
<seangarner> np
<thumper> lp appears up again
<AlbertDS> LP seems to be down. Any news?
<toddyhb> tahnks thumper
<toddyhb> thanks thumper
<toddyhb> It works
<AlbertDS> Any idea when Launchpad will be back up?
<thumper> AlbertDS: try again?
<thumper> AlbertDS: it should be up now
<AlbertDS> Brilliant - it is thanks. What happened to it?
<thumper> AlbertDS: we don't know yet
<thumper> AlbertDS: we are investigating
<jtniehof> looks functional here, too. Thanks.
<seangarner> everything except the global search is working from here
<nhandler> It might be worth updating the /topic in here until LP is back up. @launchpadstatus (identi.ca) should also be updated
<thumper> nhandler: LP is back up
<c_korn> does LP currently have a downtime ?
<nhandler> thumper: Ok, I missed your post (and am on edge). But updating those 2 places is a good way to avoid a million questions ;)
<mwhudson> c_korn: should be back now
<thumper> nhandler: yes, I'll send out a dent
<ajmitch> the problem seems to be persisting
<mwhudson> ajmitch: have you been redirected to /offline.html?
<ajmitch> mwhudson: I'd hit refresh on https://launchpad.net, it just came right after a couple of tries there
<c_korn> mwhudson: it is. thanks.
<ajmitch> there was no offline.html in the url, though it looked like the normal offline page :)
<mwhudson> hm
<stx_UK> The redirect did seem a bit on/off to me too. Sometimes not apparent in uri
<ajmitch> I've got to the front page & disabled edge redirection now, seeing if things still break
<toddyhb> https://launchpad.net is down again by me
<ajmitch> right, it looks to be intermittent/slow
<toddyhb> the same error without a redirect to the /offline.html in the url
 * thumper wonders what is going on...
<thumper> ajmitch: force refresh help? Ctrl F5
<ajmitch> trying again on bugs.lp.net, it sits & waits for a long time
<ajmitch> getting the offline message after maybe 20-30 seconds
<toddyhb> me too ajmitch
* thumper changed the topic of #launchpad to: Launchpad is experiencing some technical difficulties, we are investigating | Read https://help.launchpad.net for help | Help contact: - | Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Launchpad is open source: see channel #launchpad-dev
<toddyhb> now it works fine by me
<dhart> i'm about to dive into a private install of launchpad. what are monthly upgrade rollouts like?
<dhart> oh, hi
<lifeless> spm: ping
<spm> lifeless: yo!
<lifeless> I'm getting 'no public key' errors from  lp
<lifeless> in response to bugmail
<lifeless> and the bounced mail has a valid signature ;)
<lifeless> I am suspecting something is wrong ;)
<wgrant> I get those from PQM sometimes.
<lifeless> pqm maintains a manually updated keyring
<mwhudson> lesson of the day: _always_ have a timeout on any network request
<spm> lifeless: that sounds related to the h/w error we're chasing atm
<lifeless> tcp has one; 30 minutes long :)
<lifeless> spm: ok
<lifeless> I'll retry after you've bounced stuff
<spm> ta
<mwhudson> i think stuff has been bounced actually
<mwhudson> you know, i wouldn't have thought launchpad would make so many requests to the keyserver in 30 minutes that it would tie up all appserver threads, but what do i know
<lifeless> mwhudson: mail validation, and the keyserver can be very very very slow at responding
<mwhudson> lifeless: appservers don't do the mail validation
<mwhudson> unless i'm misunderstanding what you mean
<lifeless> hmm, so why would appservers talk to the keyserver at all then?
<wgrant> Adding keys.
<wgrant> That all I can think of.
<intellectronica> mwhudson: care to look at a failing git import for me?
<mwhudson> intellectronica: ok
<mwhudson> intellectronica: but probably i'll just throw you on jelmer's tender mercies
<intellectronica> mwhudson: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~intellectronica/nodejs/trunk
<intellectronica> mwhudson: also, is there a way to make an imported branch owned by a team?
<mwhudson> intellectronica: you should be able to reassign the import branch to any team you're a member of
<mwhudson> intellectronica: the failure message seems pretty clear?
<mwhudson> basically you're SOL for now :(
<intellectronica> mwhudson: SOL?
<mwhudson> short of luck
<intellectronica> mwhudson: known limitation?
<mwhudson> yep
<intellectronica> :(
<intellectronica> mwhudson: do you know if there's a bug i can subscribe to?
<mwhudson> intellectronica: surprisingly, i don't
<mwhudson> intellectronica: this is a conversation to have in #bzr really in some ways
<thumper> intellectronica: there is a bug you can subscribe to
<thumper> intellectronica: it is on bzr-git
<thumper> intellectronica: at least I thought there was
<intellectronica> i can't find anything that looks like it might be it
<mwhudson> yeah me neither
<mwhudson> maybe it got reassigned to bzr
#launchpad 2010-11-22
<ries> Hello, is there the right place to ask about PPA?
<spiv> ries: this channel is a good place
<ries> spiv: People ask me to create a PPA, I am trying to understand what sort of work is needed... currently I setup the applicaiton to be run-in-place after compilation
<ries> should I make a dep package and just upload?
<spiv> ries: https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA may help you
<spiv> ries: you can upload source deb packages to your PPA, and Launchpad will build them for you, and people can install those.
<ries> Ahh ok.. so when I make a deb that works on Debian, then launchpad can pick that up...
<ries> I will read how to make a dep first then...
<ries> deb...
<spiv> ries: I think https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide is the recommended starting point for that.
<ries> spiv: very helpfull... I will give this : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/QtApplication a shot
<mtaylor> I'm guessing that if an upstream branch autoimport fails I don't need to inform anyone
<lifeless> it depends
<lifeless> do you want it fixed?
<Devil505> hello
<Devil505> I'm looking for a Registry Administrator
<jtv> Devil505: what is it you need done?
<Devil505> jtv, I've registered frugalware linux project https://launchpad.net/frugalware but i just want a page like https://launchpad.net/debian or https://launchpad.net/fedora or https://launchpad.net/gentoo
<jtv> Devil505: let me find one for youâ¦
<Devil505> ok thx:)
<jtv> bac: is that something you could help with perhaps?
<Devil505> I just need the window with CD mirrors, Builds...
<wgrant> Devil505: Those are only supported for Ubuntu. They're empty for all other distributions at the moment.
<Devil505> ok and how to change the page to have the same thing as the debian one for example ?
<wgrant> What about it do you want?
<Devil505> just want to have Frugalware registered like that https://launchpad.net/gentoo :)
<wgrant> Devil505: What difference does it make?
<wgrant> There is extra awkwardness around distros.
<Devil505> oh ok
<jtv> hi henninge!
<jtv> You have mail.
<henninge> jtv: Hi!
<henninge> Yes, let me read it. ;)
<jtv> henninge: it's well past mumble
<henninge> jtv: yes, sorry
<jtv> henninge: I got a patch number for recife, so am about to push that change.
<BlackZ> any launchpad buildd around? http://launchpadlibrarian.net/59451168/buildlog_ubuntu-natty-i386.apr_1.4.2-6_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<BlackZ> launchpad buildd admin*
<geser> BlackZ: you probably need to talk to lamont about this
<BlackZ> lamont: ^
<Andphe> hey guys, I'm having problems with gpg keys on mi PPAs, I had a key 2082CDED, but I lost that one, I created a new one 6AE14EF2, and my packages are signed with this one and everything is ok uploading packages, the problem is that when I try to use this PPA as a dependencie for another PPA, the build bot gets the old key  and shows the error NO_PUBKEY 2F9D58B92082CDED
<Andphe> any clue ?
<bigjools> Andphe: do your packages build?
<Andphe> yes, the ones that doesn't require a PPA as dependency to build
<Andphe> bigjools, ââ
<bigjools> Andphe: do the other builds fail?  NO_PUBKEY is just a warning.
<bigjools> BlackZ: file a bug on launchpad-buildd please
<geser> BlackZ, bigjools: there should already be one about it
<bigjools> ok thanks
<bigjools> do you know the number?
<geser> bigjools: bug 671441 (the title could use an update)
<Andphe> bigjools, not sure, this is what I get W: GPG error: http://ppa.launchpad.net maverick Release: The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY 2F9D58B92082CDED
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 671441 in joblib (Ubuntu) "joblib FTBFS in Natty (affected: 1, heat: 289)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/671441
<bigjools> Andphe: that's just a warning and appears for all builds
<Andphe> bigjools, hmmm
<BlackZ> bigjools: I confirmed it
<Andphe> bigjools, ok thanks, at least now I know it's no the keys
<bigjools> np
<BlackZ> geser: and I updated the title with one more better than the precedent one
<nerd_bloke> I asked the papercut team about the following bug, as it is the start of a new development cycle... but they said it wasn't desktop so not appropriate. It seems like basic functionality and has been open a while, does it deserve a look?
<nerd_bloke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/68277
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 68277 in Launchpad Bugs ""newest first" doesn't sort bugs correctly (affected: 1, heat: 0)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<Andphe> Can I pin a package for the build proccess ? I'm trying to build something whose dependencies an older than official release
<geser> unless I misunderstood your questions, only the latest version is published for a specific archive (PPA, official archive, etc.)
<Andphe> geser, I'm building a extension for PHP 5.2.14 but the official one is 5.3.3, the php5-dev 5.2.14 package is on my ppa, but the build is getting 5.3.3, so what I'm looking is to fix the build to use mine instead the official one
<bigjools> Andphe: set a build dependency on an explict version
<Andphe> bigjools,  what I currently have is Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 5), libmcrypt-dev, php5-dev (= 5.2.14) and the package php5_5.2.14.dfsg.1-0ubuntu0ppa3~maverick. is already on my PPA
<bigjools> I don't know whats up then
<Andphe> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/59451010/buildlog_ubuntu-maverick-amd64.php-mcrypt_5.2.14-0ubuntu0ppa1~maverick_MANUALDEPWAIT.txt.gz
<Andphe> this is the log
<SpamapS> anybody have ideas what might cause the error about tar here:  http://launchpadlibrarian.net/58855548/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-i386.mongodb_1:1.2.2-1ubuntu1.1~ppa1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz ?
<SpamapS> dpkg-deb: building package `mongodb' in `../mongodb_1.2.2-1ubuntu1.1~ppa1_i386.deb'.
<SpamapS> tar: ./usr/bin/mongo: file changed as we read it
<SpamapS> The build works fine in lucid pbuilder and using sbuild
<lamont> BlackZ: yeah - we don't have /dev/shm mounted in the build chroots - I'm looking into if we care enough
<BlackZ> lamont: will it be mounted? otherwise seems like we will have to fix all packages using that to not mount it
<lamont> BlackZ: that's what I'm looking at figuring out this week
<flacoste> rockstar: call?
<rockstar> flacoste, now?  I thought it wasn't for a while.
<flacoste> rockstar: my calendar says now
<flacoste> rockstar: if you aren't available, we can reschedule
<rockstar> flacoste, hm, I probably got my UTC math wrong.  I can do it now.  Mumble?
<flacoste> rockstar: sure, Code 1-1
#launchpad 2010-11-23
<jderose> Hello, I'm trying to setup source package recipe dailies for PiTiVi from upstream git repo....
<jderose> There is a stale/broken vcs-import here: https://code.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/pitivi/trunk-git
<jderose> I was wondering if someone in ~vcs-imports could delete it so I can setup a new (hopefully working) import?
<jderose> rockstar: I see you're in ~vcs-imports, could you help me with ^^^
<jderose> lifeless: could you remove this broken/stale vcs-import so i can setup a working one? https://code.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/pitivi/trunk-git
<lifeless> you can make a new one anytime
<lifeless> see help.launchpad.net
<lifeless> for removing the old one, file a question on https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad-code/
<jderose> lifeless: when i try to create a new import, launchpad gave me an error: This foreign branch URL is already specified for                     the imported branch ~vcs-imports/pitivi/trunk-git.
<lifeless> ah
<lifeless> in which case setting up a new one at the same place wouldn't work any better.
<jderose> lifeless: but after looking around a bit more, seems like the problem is git submodules: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/402814
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 402814 in Launchpad Bazaar Integration "Importing revisions with submodules is not supported (affected: 10, heat: 74)" [Wishlist,Triaged]
<lifeless> yes
<jderose> :)
<jderose> lifeless: would be really great if this bug were fixed. after rockstar helped me get recipes working for dmedia, i'm telling everyone how awesome recipes are, trying to help other projects set them up
<lifeless> its important, but its not simple.
 * jderose guess as much
 * jderose guessed as much... not simple, or it would already work :)
<jderose> lifeless: so is the issue bzr <=> git semantics that are hard to map into each other?
<lifeless> bzr doesn't support submodules in an analagous way [yet]
<lifeless> so mapping that is very hard
<jderose> i see
<wildintellect> I'm trying to figure out how to copy https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+source/gpsprune into a lucid ppa - the author of the software claims that it should be able to build on lucid
<wildintellect> since it's in the main distro and not a ppa, there doesn't seem to be a copy page?
<SpamapS> wildintellect: download the source package, add a changelog entry that mentions something like 'no source change backport to lucid' and upload it to the ppa
<SpamapS> wildintellect: actually you might not even need to add that changelog entry
<micahg> wildintellect: or request a backport: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports (this is OT though)
<wildintellect> SpamapS, I guess I was disappointed that the +copy-packages isn't available (this isn't the 1st time I've tried this), thanks for the tips
<wildintellect> I'm confused, once I push a package up to a ppa is there anything I need to do to make sure it gets built for i386 and amd64 - in this case it's a java app so the binary might be the same?
<micahg> wildintellect: arch independent packages only build on i386
<wildintellect> ah ok, thanks for confirming
<micahg> wildintellect: but they should be available on all archs
<wildintellect> guess I could add my own ppa on my amd64 to check
<wildintellect> lucid/main/binary-amd64/Packages.gz  404  Not Found <- guess that's not the whole story
<micahg> wildintellect: which PPA?
<wildintellect> https://launchpad.net/~wildintellect/+archive/wildintellect
<micahg> wildintellect: not published yet
<wildintellect> ah ya, just saw that
<wildintellect> any idea what the normal wait time on that is? an hour?
<micahg> wildintellect: actually that package will cause upgrade troubel with maverick
<micahg> wildintellect: care to hop into #ubuntu-packaging?
<wildintellect> did I name it wrong?
<wildintellect> sure
<alf_> Hi! How can I completely remove a PPA from the PPA list in my account? When I delete a PPA it remains there (although greyed-out).
<bigjools> alf_: that's all you can do
<bigjools> nobody else sees it though
<alf_> bigjools: thanks, although I'd rather not see it either :)
<bigjools> well history is retained so we need to keep a link around
<bigjools> at some point we'll do something to blow history away too but that's much harder
<soren> When does the PPA publisher run these days?
<bigjools> every 5-10 minutes
<soren> Oh, it's not a set interval?
<bigjools> yes, but sometimes it takes longer and crosses the next interval
<soren> bigjools: Ah, I see.
<soren> bigjools: Great, thanks!
<bigjools> np
<soren> bigjools: https://launchpad.net/~nova-core/+archive/trunk/+build/2058949    No build log?
<bigjools> soren: it happens if it fails to dispatch
<bigjools> retry is safe
<soren> bigjools: Alright. Thanks again :)
<Ddorda> âhey, how do i push code to trunk if it's a new project?
<bilalakhtar> Ddorda: first push the code to something like lp:~ddorda/PROJECTNAME/trunk and then later (in LP) set that as main branch
<bilalakhtar> then after that onwards you can use lp:PROHECTNAME
<Ddorda> âbilalakhtar: i see. thanks :)
<dpm> hey henninge and jtv (if you're still around), fta tells me: "i've dropped two templates a few days ago, they are still in lp (while they are supposed to disappear): https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/chromium-browser/translations/+lang/es"
<dpm> Any ideas what could be happening?
<jtv> dpm: there's no such thing as dropping a template either, and they stay in lp.  You can deactivate them, in which case someone with the right privileges will still see them (but in a different colour).
<dpm> fta, can you give us more details? Can we just disable the templates in LP, or does this have something to do with that bug re: obsole templates causing problems in LP?
<fta> dropped = removed from the branch imported by lp
<fta> and i'm also ignoring those templates/strings when i convert back the exported branch
<fta> so i'm just concerned about not exposing those to translators anymore so they don't waste their time translating stuff we don't need
<dpm> fta, we can disable them from LP, as we've already discussed in the past. But IIRC that created problems? I can disable them right now and we can test
<dpm> which ones are they? devtools-strings and inspector-strings?
<fta> dpm, yep, i'd prefer not to (as the bug is still there). i've been told it's supposed to disappear after 3 days or something like that, hence my initial report
<fta> devtools-* and google-chrome-*
<fta> devtools because it's been merged into inspector-*, and google-chrome-* because upstream doesn't want our contribs *and* we have no use for it ourselves
<dpm> fta, ok so I better not touch them then. Do you remember the bug no., btw? jtv, henninge, any comments on templates removed from source branches disappearing after a few days? I'm not familiar with this myself
<dpm> I think fta has discussed this with danilo and henninge on this channel in the past
<jtv> dpm: the only way they could really disappear is if you remove one from a branch and then add another.
<jtv> The branch import approver may interpret that as a rename.
<jtv> But we're in a bit of a crunch right now.
<jtv> Got a deadline that we're struggling to meet, I'm EOD and facing an increasingly dangerous return journey, and Henning's already being distracted with other requests.
<dpm> jtv, no worries, thanks for letting us know and your help!
<jtv> np
 * jtv runs
<maxb> Well that's novel, I have one of the surrogate KDE imports I'm running until LP's bzr-svn is new enough failing with 'Conflicting tags'
<dholbach> hello!
<ari-tczew> hi dholbach
<dholbach> can somebody explain why I get http://paste.ubuntu.com/535521/ even though https://launchpad.net/~jonathan/+participation shows that jonathan is part of ubuntu-dev?
<dholbach> (through the motu team, but team.participants should take care of that, right?)
<maxb> API doc says yes, but also recommends IPerson.inTeam()
<dholbach> maxb, I can't find inTeam() anywhere in the docs
<dholbach> (other than in that recommendation)
<wgrant> inTeam isn't exported.
<maxb> Oh this is the lameness of autogenerated apidoc :-/
<wgrant> Yes.
<dholbach> so is there anything I'm doing wrong?
<mfraz74> how does the launchpad website determine the version of ubuntu i'm running?
<wgrant> mfraz74: Which part of Launchpad?
<mfraz74> the ppas
<wgrant> mfraz74: It checks your browser's User-Agent string.
<mfraz74> hmm, i've just upgraded to 10.10 and it is showing me lucid
<wgrant> mfraz74: Are you sure the PPA has Maverick packages?
<mfraz74> yes
<wgrant> dholbach: I'm not sure what's going on. The code seems to do what you expect. Yet the results are not.
<dholbach> wgrant, a bug in registry?
<wgrant> dholbach: Yes.
<dholbach> thanks
<dholbach> bug 680461
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 680461 in Launchpad Registry "team.participants lies! (affected: 1, heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/680461
<dholbach> thanks again
<mfraz74> looks like in firefox general.useragen.vendorSub is still showing 10.04
<Ddorda> âbilalakhtar: when i do bzr branch lp:~ddorda/.... i get an error
<bilalakhtar> Ddorda: I am busy
<Ddorda> âbilalakhtar: okay. thanks anyway :)
<Ddorda> âanyone else around can help?
<dholbach> Ddorda, I'm not sure I can help, but maybe you can put the full output at http://paste.ubuntu.com
<Ddorda> âdholbach: http://paste.ubuntu.com/535566/
<jelmer> Ddorda: there doesn't appear to be such a branch on Launchpad: https://code.launchpad.net/~ddorda/rtlplo0x/trunk
<dholbach> https://code.launchpad.net/rtlplo0x
<dholbach> There are no branches for RTLplo0x in Launchpad.
<dholbach> Ddorda, if you want to push your changes to LP, you might want to do       bzr push lp:~ddorda/rtlplo0x/trunk
<Ddorda> âdholbach: i know. i want to add the first branch
<dholbach> (use --remember the first time, so you just do   'bzr push'   the next times)
<Ddorda> âbut how do i push something that isn't even a branch yet?
<dholbach> http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/bzr.2.2/en/mini-tutorial/index.html
<dholbach> Bazaar in 5 minutes
<Ddorda> âdholbach: i guess that's what i wss looking for. thanks
<dholbach> rock on
<Ddorda> âdholbach: :)
<lool> Hey
<lool> I'm looking for a package importer admin
<lool> to kick the qmeu-kvm import
<lool> qemu-kvm*
<smoser> hey all, maybe i'm being dense, but i sweare that i used to be able to see build logs of a failed build: https://launchpad.net/~awstools-dev/+archive/awstools/+build/2060035
<soren> smoser: You did.
<soren> smoser: That one is the build failing to dispatch.
<soren> smoser: Just retry it.
<soren> smoser: In other words, the actual build was never attempted.
<smoser> soren, so how do you know ?
<soren> smoser: So may be fine.
<soren> smoser: How do I know what?
<smoser> yes
<smoser> how did you know that it failed in dispatch
<soren> BEcause there's no build log :)
<soren> 09:36 < soren> bigjools: https://launchpad.net/~nova-core/+archive/trunk/+build/2058949    No build log?
<soren> 09:37 < bigjools> soren: it happens if it fails to dispatch
<SpamapS> smoser: are you working on the "extra" ec2 tools that erichammond asked for?
<soren> 09:37 < bigjools> retry is safe
<smoser> fair enough.
<bigjools> we have problems with the build farm again, it should be okay now
<smoser> SpamapS, yeah, that is what https://launchpad.net/~awstools-dev/+archive/awstools is. but really, its just iamcli and ec2-api-tools backports at this point.
<bdmurray> lifeless: has any progress been made on accessing attachments of private bugs via the api yet?
<serfus> hey, i'm having some issues recovering my account password. is anyone from the launchpad team available?
<lifeless> bdmurray: yes
<lifeless> bdmurray: we turned on the publicrestricted librarian, but turned it off because of an interaction with build logs
<lifeless> with it on there is a pending patch to revert the workaround for apport that will let everyone use the API to access such things.
<mgp> Hi all, I created a launchpad login about two years ago. Unfortunately, I have forgot my password. Using the tool facilitated on the webpage to get my password doesn't deem to work. I waited 24h and never got an email sent. Who should I address to solve this problem?
<lifeless> mgp: so our login system has moved
<lifeless> its now maintained by the login.ubuntu.com team
<lifeless> mgp: I don't remember the url offhand
<lifeless> :(
<mgp> lifeless: thanks for the awnser, so I should contact them on the matter?
<lifeless> yes
<lifeless> they have a help form, I'm just trying to figure out where that is :(
<mgp> you mean I should use their password recovery system to get my password. Let me investigate, see what I find. Thanks again
<mgp> lifeless: Dunno if it's the same login but I tried here: http://ubuntuforums.org/login.php?do=lostpw . Told me it sent me the email. I'll wait and see if I receive it. Thanks for your help.
<lifeless> no, thats rather different
<mgp> Ok sorry, there was an option to login with the launchpad option so I thought I'd give it a try. No email as for the moment. I'll keep searching for the page.
<lifeless> mgp: join #canonical-isd
<mgp> thanks lifeless I'll go over to see if they can help
<alex88> hi guys, if i respond to a question, is normal that it marked as solved by the asker?
<alex88> i mean in aswers.launchpad.net
<alex88> is there a way to report an user?
<cody-somerville> alex88, What do you mean?
<kiko> alex88, if you answer the question, it's set as answered. if the person who asked the question is happy, it's considered solved
<alex88> kiko, sorry for the delay... but if someone ask a question, i give the answer, he should set solved by me right?
<alex88> for example, this question: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/134178
<alex88> he's getting karma for this right?
<popey> alex88: yeah, but not much
<alex88> ok..thank you..
<alex88> how often the karma is calculated?
<wgrant> Every 24 hours.
<alex88> thank you
<Daviey> Hmm
<Daviey> In what situation would launchpad generate a soyuz diff from the wrong previous package?
<maxb> Daviey: What do you mean by wrong? Soyuz diffs are often not against the package version I'd like them to be, but I've not seen one be inconsistent
<lifeless> Daviey: it wouldn't.
#launchpad 2010-11-24
<Daviey> lifeless / maxb: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/dpkg/1.15.5.6ubuntu4.4
<Daviey> The diff LP has generated is: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/57004735/dpkg_1.15.5.6ubuntu4.2_1.15.5.6ubuntu4.4.diff.gz
<Daviey> which is against *4.2
<Daviey> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dpkg/1.15.5.6ubuntu4.2/+publishinghistory  <--- is odd
<Daviey> *.1 is marked Superseded by 4.3 !
<Daviey> *.2 isn't marked superseeded, just deleted with the comment "moved to -updates"
<Daviey> The debian/changelog for 4.3 doesn't mention 4.1 (oddly)
<Daviey> In any case, LP is giving an incorrect diff to me.... :/
<Daviey> (if you debdiff 4.3 and 4.4, you get the diff i expected.
<Daviey> ^^ Downloading the .dsc's from launchpad.
<lifeless> Daviey: File a bug?
<Daviey> lifeless: wilco
<maxb> Daviey: 4.3 was a security update
<maxb> Therefore, at the time 4.4 was uploaded to proposed, it's possibly that 4.2 was still the latest in the updates pocket?
 * maxb curses at the difficulty of finding a link to https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dpkg/+publishinghistory, and manually composes the URL
<maxb> hmm, apparently not, 4.3 was copied to updates long before 4.4 hit proposed
<maxb> oh, gah, I bet LP saw that there was an earlier dpkg in lucid-proposed, and didn't check other pockets
<maxb> Daviey: seen the above ^
<maxb> ?
<micahg> maxb: the link is on the package page on the top right
<maxb> Ah, I failed to look to the portlet
 * achiang is looking for some help with recipes
<achiang> i created one for my package here - https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~achiang/+recipe/abby
<achiang> 1st question - my latest lucid build failed, but looking at the build log, it looks like it wasn't my fault
<achiang> (dangerous thing to say, yes...)
<achiang> but i want to just try and rebuild that if i can, and  i don't see any way to do that
<maxb> heh, good timing, I was about to raise the same issue :-)
<achiang> Aborting on failed virtualization check:
<achiang> xen-detect is not installed
<maxb> Looks like terranova is broken, at least for recipe builds?
<mwhudson> laaaaaaaaaaaaaamont
<mwhudson> ?
<achiang> mwhudson: i live in the same time zone as lamont and it's 1830 here
<mwhudson> ah
<achiang> s/time zone/town/ :)
<maxb> https://code.launchpad.net/builders/terranova/+history  <---- all recipe builds fail
<achiang> ok, so it's not just me then
<achiang> 2nd question then, is -- shouldn't my maverick package (which built successfully) have been uploaded to my ppa?
<achiang> yet, apt-get update ; apt-cache policy <foo> doesn't seem to show the new version. and it built quite a while ago
<achiang> i have a build from 2010-11-11 whose icon says, "build uploading". perhaps that is bollixed up?
<maxb> yeah, there's a bug for that already
<achiang> maxb: pointer?
<lamont> mwhudson: otoh, I work somewhat mid-atlantic timezone hours
<lamont> terranova, you say?
 * lamont goes looking
<lamont> terranova has the right launchpad-buildd in it..
<lamont> gah
<achiang> lamont: lessee... GMT-2 is exactly in the middle of the atlantic. meaning you're working at 2330? ;)
<lamont> I am now roughly 4 hours past my EOD
<lamont> OTOH, my day starts at 0500 local
 * achiang is a slacker at only EOD+2
<micahg> lamont: that might explain why I thought you were in the UK
 * lamont is feeling post-EOD laziness... any other machines that have "xen-detect is not installed" as a recipe build failure, please let me know about it.
<lamont> micahg: understandable
<lamont> note that I am  not a morning person.  I just really value my afternoons
<lamont> terranova is fixe
<lamont> d
<lamont> meh.  /me checks the others, TSA-style
<achiang> lamont: any hints on packages not uploading to PPAs? or is that outside your bailiwick?
<lamont> describe this "not uploading" thing of which you spea,
<lamont> k
<achiang> here's my recipe page - https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~achiang/+recipe/abby
<achiang> lamont: from that, i would have assumed that the builds from 1 hour ago would have been uploaded by now
<achiang> hm.
 * achiang goes to double check and ensure he pushed the "push to ppa" option
<wgrant> They have uploaded.
<achiang> lamont: yes, i did have an archive selected when i requested the build
<wgrant> Apart from the one from two weeks, which was caught in a bug that has since been fixed.
<lamont> 6 of the 16 had xen-detect installed. :(
<maxb> Huh. I just skimmed all the i386 builders history pages and didn't spot any others broken
<wgrant> achiang: Which build seems to still be uploading?
<lamont> achiang: that'd be "why don't my recipe builds seem to upload to my ppa", which would be in the land of "not familiar with that yet"
<lamont> maxb: to be fair, the 16 include many amd64 and lpia buildds
<achiang> wgrant: hm, i don't see it uploaded? http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/535739/
<lamont> and it's quite likely that the ones that were already correct were the rest of the i386 family
<wgrant> achiang: Which build?
<achiang> wgrant: this one claims to still be uploading, but note i do not really care about it. the packages i built today supersede it - https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~achiang/+recipe/abby/+build/7286
<wgrant> achiang: That apt-cache policy checks that the binaries are all built and published.
 * lamont leaves achiang in wgrant's very capable hands
<achiang> wgrant: the package i care about is either https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~achiang/+recipe/abby/+build/8665 or this one https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~achiang/+recipe/abby/+build/8667
<achiang> lamont: thanks
<wgrant> achiang: 8667's binary build (https://code.launchpad.net/~achiang/+archive/laika/+build/2060780) finished not long ago and isn't yet published.
<wgrant> Also, is there a reason you're still using edge?
<wgrant> edge is deprecated now.
<achiang> wgrant: so you're saying apt-cache policy isn't a good check? apt-get dist-upgrade doesn't show me laika as a candidate for install then
<wgrant> achiang: The source is uploaded and published, but the binaries aren't published yet.
<maxb> wgrant: Do you happen to know if someone is doing to do some sql to fix up all the spuriously "uploading build" build records?
<wgrant> maxb: I don't know. You'd have to ask Code.
<achiang> wgrant: i don't know why i'm still on edge. one reason is because i don't see an option for recipes on !edge
<achiang> wgrant: but i am pretty incompetent, so highly likely to be PEBCAK
<wgrant> achiang: Ah, you're not in the beta testers team?
<achiang> wgrant: i never asked to be part of that team, so if it was an explicit opt-in, then no, i am not on that team
<wgrant> achiang: You might want to join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-recipe-beta.
<lamont> wgrant: I find I still use edge because tab completion in firefox still only knows edge
<achiang> wgrant: ah, now i see that 8667 superseded 8665, which is why 8665's binaries were never published
<wgrant> achiang: (recipes were previously exposed to everyone on edge, since we didn't have a way to restrict a feature to a particular team)
<lifeless> lamont: is that history or something else?
<wgrant> lamont: Yeah, that's almost fixed for me.
<lifeless> achiang: the recipe beta team includes launchpad-beta
<wgrant> lamont: But some little-used pages still want to go to edge :(
 * achiang joins launchpad-recipe-beta
<lamont> lifeless: history
<lamont> that and not caring enough to correct history
<achiang> ah, now i see the recipe link on !edge, thank you
<achiang> if a recipe package builds in one distro series, but not another, do the successful build's binaries still get published?
<wgrant> achiang: yes.
<wgrant> They're pretty much independent.
<achiang> ok
<maxb> Oh, hmm, good point about edge and firefox
 * maxb fires up sqlite3 on firefox places.sqlite ;-)
<achiang> last dumb question -- is there a way to request a rebuild on a failed recipe build, the way that i [think] i can on a normal package in a PPA?
 * lamont wanders off with family
<wgrant> achiang: No, you have to request a new build. It was decided that there was no benefit allowing an existing build to be retried.
<wgrant> achiang: But perhaps we could add a retry link which automatically populates the build request form.
<achiang> wgrant: ok, fair enough. i just think it is a little confusing that i can request a rebuild sometimes, but not all the time
<wgrant> (normal PPA binary build retrying is a hack from 5 or so years ago, and we haven't managed to find the time to fix it yet)
<mwhudson> i think that might be a slight exaggeration
<mwhudson> as ppas are only about 3 years old...
<wgrant> mwhudson: But the binary build retry button came years before PPAs.
<mwhudson> ah ok
<walterheck> how do i delete/edit a comment with accidental sensitive information in it?
<lifeless> someone will be with you soon to help
<walterheck> lifeless: thanks, you a bot or a person? :)
<lifeless> A person I hope
<walterheck> sorry, that nick in correspondence with that answer made me think that there might be a bot that says that if noone responds within a certain timeframe (not even a bad idea actually ;) )
<lifeless> I suspect the nearest sysadmin is having lunch
<lifeless> you may need to wait here a bit
<walterheck> yeah, no worries
<walterheck> the sooner I get it removed, the happier my customer will be :)
<spm> walterheck: heyo, sorry, yes was at lunch.
<walterheck> spm: no worries
<walterheck> spm: thanks for teh quick and great help!
<spm> anytime
<jderose> when i do a release, is there an easy way to have the status of all bugs targeted to that milestone change to "Fix Released"?
<lifeless> there are scripts around that can do that
<lifeless> there is one in the lp source tree
<jderose> lifeless: ah, that brings me to another question: what are the current best practices for automating launchpad releases, what tools do you recommend?
<lifeless> theres some stuff in ubuntu-dev-tools
<lifeless> or in lptools
<lifeless> I use the lptools ones myself
<jderose> okay, thank you!
<lifeless> lp-milestones release foo/bar
<jderose> lifeless: maybe just *one* more question: is there a way to test release automation in a sandbox? to make sure stuff is working with launchpad how i want, but not actually make a release
 * jderose installs lptools
<StevenK> jderose: Use staging.launchpad.net
<jderose> StevenK: awesome, thanks.
<lifeless> there's an environment variable you can set to do that
<lifeless> aaron has some now 'thekraken' thing, but I haven't looked into that yet.
<micahg> lifeless: I've got a new oops timeout for bug 575450 that's marked pg83
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 575450 in Soyuz "+copy-packages nearly unusable due to timeouts (affected: 5, heat: 17)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/575450
<lifeless> micahg: great
<micahg> lifeless: do you want it here or in a comment on teh bug?
<lifeless> either
<micahg> lifeless: OOPS-1789EA420
<ubot5> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1789EA420
<lifeless> micahg: s/edge// !
<micahg> lifeless: I can try it :)
<lifeless> it won't be better
<micahg> was an old bookmark
<lifeless> but the cluster has more resources
<micahg> lifeless: is it worth a shot for a cleaner oops?
<lifeless> micahg: its the same code
<lifeless> won't make a difference
<micahg> ok, thanks
<micahg> lifeless: should I try one package at a time (this was 3)
<lifeless> may help
<lifeless> its doing BESERK query counts
<lifeless> 1218
<micahg> wow, ok, do you need me to keep anything for a test case?
<lifeless> StevenK: hey
<StevenK> lifeless: ?
<lifeless> https://bugs.launchpad.net/soyuz/+bug/575450 has you assigned to it
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 575450 in Soyuz "+copy-packages nearly unusable due to timeouts (affected: 5, heat: 28)" [High,Triaged]
<lifeless> is that accurate?
<StevenK> I thought that was a regression I introduced and then fixed
<StevenK> r10847
<lifeless> StevenK: introduced maybe.
<lifeless> Fixed, no.
<StevenK> (of devel)
<lifeless> StevenK: I just want to know if you're looking at it
<StevenK> No
<lifeless> or if the assignee is stale
<StevenK> This could be an unrelated change
<StevenK> Because I did fix the root cause I introduced
<lifeless> sure
<lifeless> I'm not one for blame anyhow
<StevenK> lifeless: The bug as reported by Max can be closed; I'm not sure what micahg's issue is
<lifeless> StevenK: I've taken over the bug
<micahg> StevenK: I found it based on tag and title
<lifeless> as it wasn't marked closed
<lifeless> shrug, Making a new one would be needless ffort at this point I think.
<StevenK> That OOPS is old, do we have a new one?
<lifeless> the oops is new, 5 minutes old
<StevenK> OOPS-1789EA420 is new?
<ubot5> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1789EA420
<spm> 15 surely?
<lifeless> $new
<StevenK> Bleh
<StevenK> Editing the first comment of a bug just confuses people
<lifeless> good practice for keeping things understandable
<StevenK> No, it doesn't help at all. Since the first comment doesn't show a time it was updated, you corrlate that with the reported date
<StevenK> Which leads to confusion
<lifeless> erm
<lifeless> you may
<lifeless> but its the description
<StevenK> Okay, let me clarify. It confuses *me*
<lifeless> nearly everyone edits it when things change
<micahg> that brings up the issue of hijacked bugs, if the bug's not hijacked, it keeps the important information in one place
<lifeless> its not the first comment, its the description. Iz Different.
<StevenK> Okay, so it's an UI bug, then
<wgrant> But it's comment #0 :(
<StevenK> Which could be read as the first comment
<lifeless> StevenK: that there's no timestamp on the description ?
<micahg> wgrant: comment #0 is the original description link
<StevenK> Right
<StevenK> Anyway, I'm not interested in arguing semantics
<lifeless> StevenK: its clearly not the first comment because there are fields between it and the others.
<lifeless> sure.
<lifeless> lets see if there is a bug fo rthat
<StevenK> Ah, ~ubuntu-mozilla-security
<StevenK> That PPA is *large*
<micahg> StevenK: not much in it ATM though
<lifeless> copying three packages though... doing 1218 queries for a 3 package copy is nuts
<StevenK> micahg: Where are you copying to?
<wgrant> lifeless: Nuts? This. Is. Soyuz. :/
<micahg> StevenK: ppa:mozillateam/thunderbird-stable
<lifeless> wgrant: Nuts is as Nuts Do
<lifeless> wgrant: that should be 40 queries, tops.
<lifeless> maybe 50 if you put me over a barrel
<micahg> sorry, that's pretty unhelpful: https://edge.launchpad.net/~mozillateam/+archive/thunderbird-stable
<StevenK> Yeah, I found it
<StevenK> Not sure what's going on there
<lifeless> https://bugs.launchpad.net/malone/+bug/680808
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 680808 in Launchpad Bugs "edit time of description should be shown near the descripton (affected: 1, heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]
<lifeless> StevenK: single object based code
<lifeless> StevenK: I sent mail about those idioms again today :)
 * StevenK tries to swap in how the packing copier works
<StevenK> s/ing/age/
<micahg> that gives me the idea for a feature request -- Dehijack bugs
<micahg> ah, bug 279370
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 279370 in Launchpad Bugs "Method for splitting one bug report into two (affected: 3, heat: 6)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/279370
<RenatoSilva> anyone involved with purple-plugins-pack?
<RenatoSilva> there's a typo bug which leads to a plugin not being included
<lifeless> uhm
<lifeless> you might want #ubuntu-devel or something for that
<seife> hi, I have a problem with merging an old account of mine. I don't have access to the old email anymore, but I can "prove" pretty well that i'm the person ;) Whom to contact?
<kiko> seife?
<kiko> bah, gone
<kiko> no patience
<Daviey> Hmm... the builders seem to be plentiful, but https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openvswitch/1.1.0~pre2-5ubuntu1 hasn't been built yet - is there something wrong?
<Daviey> (published 20hrs ago)
<wgrant> There are no builds.
<wgrant> The architecture string is 'all linux-any', which may be confusing things.
<wgrant> I'm not even sure that makes sense.
<wgrant> Debian Policy seems OK with it :(
<wgrant> It doesn't make much sense to me, though.
<jelmer> wgrant: what does the policy say it means?
<wgrant> jelmer: It doesn't.
<jelmer> ah. fun.
<wgrant> But we should treat it the same as linux-any.
<jelmer> I'
<jelmer> m pretty sure we don't have any tests for that sort of thing at the moment.
<wgrant> I believe I added some when I added linux-any support in the first place.
 * wgrant looks.
<wgrant> Yeah, package-arch-specific.txt is not too bad.
<wgrant> Bug #680889
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 680889 in Soyuz "Needs to handle "all linux-any" like "linux-any" (affected: 1, heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/680889
<bigjools> that upload should have been rejected if it doesn't have any builds
<wgrant> bigjools: Not for the primary archive.
<bigjools> !
<wgrant> Ah, actually, I missed the bit of Policy which specifies this behaviour:
<wgrant> "Specifying a list of architectures or architecture wildcards indicates that the source will build an architecture-dependent package, and will only work correctly on the listed or matching architectures. If the source package also builds at least one architecture-independent package, all will also be included in the list."
<bigjools> I don't understand how that's remotely useful
<wgrant> bigjools: Distro people asked for it.
<soren> wgrant: Which section is that?
<wgrant> soren: 5.6.8
<wgrant> bigjools: I believe the specific case was that they didn't want to blacklist ARM-specific stuff, since ARM was to be introduced soon.
<wgrant> bigjools: But if they tried to sync it, LP rejected.
<wgrant> The same thing applies to bootloaders for various archs now.
<bigjools> do our server kernels have CONFIG_SECURITY_CAPABILITIES ?
<wgrant> bigjools: You're not trying that mlockall thing, are you?
<bigjools> yes
<wgrant> :(
<bigjools> any better ideas?
<wgrant> Do we actually know that that's the problem? :/
<bigjools> no
<bigjools> the problem is that the SYN packets are not acked
<bigjools> which triggers the 30 second kernel timeout
<bigjools> not a lot we can do about that
<wgrant> bigjools: Concerning.
<wgrant> From the Lucid -server config:
<wgrant> CONFIG_SECURITY_FILE_CAPABILITIES=y
<bigjools> not quite the same.... unless it changed?
<soren> wgrant: "In the main debian/control file in the source package, this field may contain the special value all, the special architecture wildcard any, or a list of specific and wildcard architectures separated by spaces. If all or any appears, that value must be the entire contents of the field. Most packages will use either all or any."
<wgrant> soren: ... so I wasn't crazy to implement it like that.
<soren> wgrant: I think the section you quoted refers to what will land in the binary .changes file.
<wgrant> Policy contradicts itself, yay.
<wgrant> Oh.
<wgrant> That line you quoted refers to debian/control.
<wgrant> Which isn't relevant here.
<soren> wgrant: which explains the phrasing: "..*will* also be included.." (emphasis mine)
<wgrant> soren: It says that the .dsc can include a list of architectures, architecture wildcards and 'all'.
<wgrant> This should really be three or four subsections.
<soren> wgrant: You're absolutely right. My bad.
<Daviey> wgrant: sorry, just seen your reply - and your LP bug, thanks
<Daviey> wgrant: short term fix is to revert the linux-any ?
<wgrant> Daviey: Right.
<Daviey> wgrant: thanks.
<Daviey> wgrant: if i comment the LP: # of the bug you raised in the changelog of that package, it won't mark that one fix released - right?
<wgrant> Daviey: Right.
<Daviey> groovy
<maxb> Daviey: Hi, did you see my remarks on soyuz diff generation yesterday?
<Daviey> maxb: I did, thanks - i copied them onto the package bug
<maxb> great
<Daviey> maxb: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dpkg/+bug/633015/comments/6
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 633015 in dpkg (Ubuntu Lucid) "debian/source/include-binaries doesn't allow for inclusion of modified binaries (affected: 1, heat: 49)" [Undecided,Fix committed]
 * Daviey notes he is having bad luck finding LP bugs atm :)
<maxb> Did you file a Soyuz bug on it?
<Daviey> maxb: yes... :)
<Daviey> bug #680911
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 680911 in Soyuz "Soyuz doesn't reliably use the correct previous package version, when calculating supersedes and diffs. (affected: 1, heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/680911
<maxb> what's wrong with the supersedes?
<Daviey> <Daviey> *.2 isn't marked superseeded, just deleted with the comment "moved to -updates"
<Daviey> ??
<wgrant> We don't supersede deleted things, because they don't exist to be supersedd.
<wgrant> So .2 was deleted, then later .4 was uploaded.
<wgrant> There was nothing left to supersede.
<Daviey> hmm
<bigjools> Daviey: can you please not post IRC logs in bug descriptions
<Daviey> bigjools: oh, why is that?
<bigjools> it's much easier for people if you can post the actual problem, the logs are quite raw to read
<bigjools> or you can post the irc log underneath a summary, that's fine
<Daviey> bigjools: Hmm.. Have others made a similar point?
<Daviey> I've never heard that as an objection before, that is all.
<maxb> Daviey: It's common sense really: don't make every person reading the bug re-derive the problem from the IRC log
<bigjools> Daviey: it's been mentioned in passing that it makes it harder to go into a bug and .... what maxb says
<Daviey> maxb: Regarding the superseded stuff - https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/dpkg/1.15.5.6ubuntu4.1 <-- confuses me
<Daviey> states it was superseded by .3
<maxb> Yes, something is odd there - it looks like 4.2 was not actually ever moved to updates, despite the comment on the deletion from proposed implying that
<Daviey> bigjools: perhaps guidance on what the Soyuz project wants in bug reports would be helpful :)
<wgrant> .1 was in -proposed, then copied to -updates and deleted from -proposed.
<wgrant> .2 was deleted from -proposed, but never copied to -updates.
<wgrant> Then .3 was deleted from -proposed and copied to -updates.
<maxb> Daviey: This is not Soyuz specific. It's just general optimization of use of people's time
<bigjools> Daviey: what maxb said :)
<Daviey> fair comment.
<bigjools> Daviey: I'm not singling you out or anything, it's just that as you can imagine I get a *lot* of bugs on Soyuz and when I read ones like yours I'm far less likely to deal with it right away
 * maxb retitles: Diff generation in the proposed pocket should consider the updates pocket even when there are previous proposed publications. 
<Daviey> bigjools: It is somewhat frustrating to discover two Soyuz bugs in under 24 hours, which is slowing me down also... :)
<bigjools> Daviey: I understand.  We're working hard to fix them all, honest :)
<Daviey> bigjools: Thanks... I can reform the description if you want.
<bigjools> Daviey: that'd be awesome
<wgrant> bigjools: There's only 150 each. We should be able to knock them all off during the bugjam... right? :P
<bigjools> hahaha
<maxb> Daviey: I just rewrite the description
<bigjools> it's also highly likely this is a dupe bug, I need to check
<Daviey> wgrant: you should fix 150 bugs before breakfast! :)
<bigjools> so it looks like it should ignore the pocket really
<wgrant> Except for security and backports :/
<wgrant> proposed should look at the latest from {updates, proposed, security}
<wgrant> security should just look at security.
<wgrant> Although I guess security never has direct uploads at the moment.
<bigjools> well it can use the pocket dependency guff
<bilalakhtar> Could someone see what's the matter with https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnat-gps/4.3-5ubuntu3/+build/2061206 ?
<bilalakhtar> Terminate it please
<bilalakhtar> it has been running since 5 hours
 * bilalakhtar got to go
<vila> despite dput telling the upload was successful, I can't find any trace of it on lp, is there some lag currently ?
<vila> I did the upload ~20 mins ago
<vila> bah, nvm, here it is
<lag> How do I make a mailing list private on LP?
<bigjools> vila: it should always email within 5 minutes
 * vila cheks
<vila> bigjools: the mail arrived, but almost at the time I found it on lp, no big deal, that could indicate a lag in the mail transport instead
<bigjools> it could
<vila> rhaa, I mean a lag on the mail from me to lp
<bigjools> yeah, I read it as that :)
<vila> ok :D
<vila> the 5 mins is a good tip anyway, I'll add that before complaining next time ;)
 * vila notes: always wait 5 mins more before complaining
<vila> Won't the world be a better place if this was applied recursively...
<bigjools> :D
<ScottK> Is soyuz OK?  I'm getting "Connection failed, aborting. Check your network [Errno 111] Connection refused"
<ScottK> (when trying to upload to a PPA)
<bigjools> ScottK: I'll check
<ScottK> Thanks.
<ScottK> Also the last two uploads I did have failed to appear.
<bigjools> vila said his were slow too
<bigjools> hmmm
<bigjools> ScottK: ftp server is up again
<bigjools> it had died
<ScottK> Thanks.
<bigjools> you beat nagios :)
<ScottK> bigjools: Can you check on if an upload made it for a private PPA?
<bigjools> I can, PM me details
<ScottK> OK
<bigjools> ScottK: you can blame pitti, he's uploaded what looks like a million language packs to  ~ubuntu-langpack
<ScottK> OK.
<bigjools> it's anywhere from 5 seconds to 15 seconds to process each upload
<ScottK> It might be nice if the queue were visible like the build queue.
<bigjools> I agree
<ScottK> bigjools: Maybe you could speak to a soyuz developer about the idea?
<ScottK> ;-)
 * bigjools blinks.  Did ScottK just crack a joke?
<lag> Does anyone here know about LP mailing lists?
<mars> mrevell, ping, if you have a moment, I have a question about the feedback@ mail auto-reply text.
<mrevell> Hi mars
<jml> how long should I expect to wait until my package is no longer "i386 - Pending publication"
<geser> PPA or main archive?
<jml> PPA
<bigjools> jml: 5-15 minutes depending on load
<bigjools> given that pitti just uploaded a million langpacks the system is quite busy right now :(
<jml> ahh
<jcsackett> back
<fta> what's the ETA for the next launchpad update? i need rev11953 (so one more than the current)
<lifeless> fta: we're green now, I'll schedule a deploy
<fta> excellent
<lifeless> requested
<zyga> lifeless, I wrote something that relates to testscenarios, would you like to have a look?
<lifeless> sure
<zyga> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~zkrynicki/django-restricted-resource/devel/annotate/head%3A/django_restricted_resource/tests.py#L139
<zyga> and the core class
<zyga> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~zkrynicki/django-restricted-resource/devel/annotate/head%3A/django_restricted_resource/test_utils.py#L33
<zyga> the idea is to allow you to specify the invariants of a tests
<zyga> and generate a complete set of scenarios that cover all the possible combinations
<zyga> and test that
<zyga> in the test I linked to the class contributes 2* 5* 2 different test cases per test function
<zyga> the code looks nice when running
<lifeless> cool
<lifeless> in bzrlib there are multiply_scenarios helpers
<lifeless> which are used to do that there
<lifeless> they operate on the scenarios directly rather than being in the test case hierarchy.
<zyga> are they specific to bzr?
<lifeless> not really
<lifeless> not an exact match for what you've done
<lifeless> but similar - they generate permutations
<lifeless> dimensions X, Y, Z - combine!
<zyga> lifeless, run log from those tests: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/536021/
<zyga> lifeless, how do you define parameters?
<lifeless> you just define separate scenarios
<lifeless> the multiplier generates the cross product and updates the scenario name
<lifeless>     tests.multiply_tests(process_entry_tests,
<lifeless>                          tests.multiply_scenarios(dir_reader_scenarios,
<lifeless>                                                   ue_scenarios),
<lifeless>                          suite)
<zyga> lifeless, interesting
<lifeless> this line is the one - tests.multiply_scenarios(dir_reader_scenarios, ue_scenarios)
<zyga> lifeless, can you do that on a per-test-function basis?
<zyga> or in the suite loader?
<lifeless> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~bzr-pqm/bzr/bzr.dev/annotate/head:/bzrlib/tests/test_http.py
<lifeless> zyga: sure, both.
<lifeless> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~bzr-pqm/bzr/bzr.dev/annotate/head:/bzrlib/tests/test_http.py#L429
<lifeless> tests all our http clients, against all http server versions.
<zyga> cool
<zyga> interesting
<lifeless> we need to move some more of the guts out into testscenarios
<zyga> more tools like that should
<zyga> right
<zyga> :D
<zyga> my thoughts exactly
<zyga> so I was curious if you'd be interested in having invariants code alongside other testscenarios modules?
<lifeless> in principle yes
<lifeless> I think theres lots of overlap with multiply_scenarios
<lifeless> and we should get that into testscenarios if it isn't first.
<zyga> if you'd have multiply_scenarios in testscenarios then I could simplify invariants just to keep compatibility with my existing code
<lifeless> lets start with that
<zyga> but if you don't plan on doing that perhaps you could adopt the invariants class
<lifeless> rev 18 has it
<lifeless> in trunk
<zyga> cool!, will you release this?
<lifeless> sure
<lifeless> probably not till the weekend
<lifeless> -very- busy days today and tomorrow
<zyga> great, I'll subscribe to that branch to keep track of updates
<zyga> thanks
<blackxored> hello guys
<blackxored> LP is down, any planned maintenance???
<zyga> blackxored, it just worked for me
<zyga> blackxored, what failed for you?
<blackxored> https://launchpad.net
<blackxored> no response, less than a minute ago
<zyga> WFM
<zyga> I'm not saying it's not broken but it might be something else
<blackxored> that url works for you???
<zyga> blackxored, yes
<blackxored> odd
<blackxored> I get the favicon
<blackxored> and only the favicon, probably from cache
<lifeless> http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/launchpad.net
<blackxored> yes I know about that link ;)
<blackxored> lifeless, nevertheless thanks
<lifeless> hmm, http only
<lifeless> anyhow
<blackxored> BTW guys It now opens, odd ;) some temporary failure I believe
<lifeless> lp is up
<blackxored> thanks and sorry about the annoyance ;)
<lifeless> no probs
<blackxored> BTW in the past few days I've got problem cloning from lp: branches
<ari-tczew> every touched branch gives me: bzr: ERROR: These branches have diverged.  See "bzr help diverged-branches" for more information.
<ari-tczew> wtf?
<spiv> ari-tczew: when you try to pull?
<ari-tczew> spiv: when I do bzr commit
<ari-tczew> spiv: no I resolved this one by fresh bzr branch, update files then commit and pull again
<spiv> Hmm, that's an odd message to get on bzr commit.  I would have expected a message telling you to run "bzr update".
<thumper> ari-tczew: are you working with a checkout from Launchpad?
<thumper> ari-tczew: if someone else commits to the branch before you, then you will see this
<ari-tczew> thumper: no, it's my branch owned
<thumper> ari-tczew: do you have translations committing to it?
<ari-tczew> thumper: nope
<thumper> ari-tczew: which branch?
<thumper> ari-tczew: did you uncommit?
<ari-tczew> thumper: lp:~ari-tczew/ubuntu/karmic/php-htmlpurifier/security
<ari-tczew> no I didn't uncommit. as I wrote, I get branch from LP and did changes again. it works
<thumper> ari-tczew: that is pretty weird
<thumper> ari-tczew: if it happens again, plese get in touch
<ari-tczew> thumper: I run natty. maybe there is a problem?
<thumper> I'm not sure
<thumper> I'd be surprised
<micahg> natty has a bzr beta ATM
<thumper> hmm...
<thumper> that shouldn't be giving false diverged messages though
<thumper> if it happens again, well take a look at the actual revisions before you change them
<geser> lamont: are all buildds update to the same launchpad-buildd version? I'm wondering why http://launchpadlibrarian.net/59569029/buildlog_ubuntu-natty-amd64.drizzle_2010.11.04-0ubuntu1_MANUALDEPWAIT.txt.gz is correctly in DEPWAIT while
<geser> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/59577684/buildlog_ubuntu-natty-armel.drizzle_2010.11.04-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz is marked as FAILED
#launchpad 2010-11-25
<ChrisMorgan> Does Launchpad support hooks of some sort, to send a request to a web page upon being pushed to?  (In hg it'd be a changegroup hook)
<ChrisMorgan> I ask, because a quick look for bzr hooks shows only supports code-registered hooks, while with hg it's in the repository's hgrc and so easy to do.
<thumper> no we don't have any web hooks at this stage
<thumper> the closest is an email
<ChrisMorgan> Which could work but would be more messy.
<ChrisMorgan> OK, thanks.
<thumper> ChrisMorgan: we have a plan to have webhooks one day
<thumper> it isn't that hard
<thumper> but it is a feature that isn't done
<rockingwing> one of the ubuntu audio dev team here?
<lamont> geser: I'd much prefer the URL for the build record, which gets me places, than the URL for the buildlog, which gets me nothing but a text file
<lamont> geser: and satinash would be one of the machines that's not quite current yet - there are about 4 armel buildds where that's the case
<fta> dpm, too bad rosetta reports "X-Generator: Launchpad (build Unknown)", i have no idea if the last export got the fix or not (lp jumped from r11952 to r11965 and the fix is in r11953)
<lamont> geser: hubbard and gourd are the last hold outs, that's why they're on manual
<henninge> fta: the fix for the export-to-branch feature won't be available until after the roll-out on the 8th, I am sorry.
<henninge> If that is what you were asking about.
<jussi> heya all, any launchpadders about?
<jussi> Ive a real quick papercut bug, however, Ill go file a bug for it if no one is about to fix it.
<jussi> simply, on this page: https://help.launchpad.net/ReadingOpenPgpMail - the gmail section mentions firegpg, which has been discontinued/isnt available anyemore. http://blog.getfiregpg.org/2010/06/07/firegpg-discontinued/
<jussi> hrm, it appears to be a wiki, but I dont see how to edit it
<geser> bigjools: should I just ask for a give-back for https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libgphoto2/2.4.10.1-2ubuntu1/+build/2059754? Failed to upload with no upload log :(
<bigjools> geser: you want me to retry it?
<bigjools> it's a result of the bug about leaving builds stuck as uploading
<bigjools> they got fixed but the upload log is missing
<geser> if you want, else I would ask a core-dev to do it (if it's the right action for solving it)
<bigjools> geser: I can do it
<bigjools> done
<bigjools> you'll get a proper failure next time
<geser> bigjools: is this http://launchpadlibrarian.net/59617004/upload_2044918_log.txt a package error or LP being to strict? I remember seeing that problem in the past but forgot what the "solution" was.
<jelmer> geser: that's a package error. there shouldn't be a reason for the package to have timestamps that far in the past.
<geser> ok
<kees-jan> Hi,
<kees-jan> Is this the right place for a ppa related question?
<LetoThe2nd> heya! I just reported a bug via apport, which got marked as duplicate. the message said i shall lookup the original and see if i can provide additional information. i think i can (workaround), but the original bug is marked private. therefore, the mail i received is kind of pointless - i can't access and comment the original bug :-(
<micahg> LetoThe2nd: you might want to ask in #ubuntu-devel if it was the retracer that made the comment
<maxb> losa ping: codebrowse appears to need kicking. All access is timing out.
<spm> maxb: yeah, looks like swap death.
<spm> maxb: should be groovy now
<maxb> much better, thanks :-)
<ibbo> I'm trying to upload a .deb I created using the python packaging guide, but I can't upload the signature file as it's 4K, what should I be doing to upload my package?
<micahg> ibbo: you can't, you have to upload a source package
<ibbo> oh right, so my project on launchpad can't have a ppa?
<micahg> ibbo: no, PPAs have source packages uploaded to them
<micahg> ibbo: https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA/Uploading
<ibbo> ok thanks, I'm clearly misunderstanding something
<ibbo> ok I'm confused, I have created a new package and I want to put it somewhere people can download, ideally http://launchpad.net/pyspy which is my project's launchpad page
<ibbo> the Packaging/PPA/Uploading page says to upload the changes file, but this is a new package
<micahg> ibbo: the changes file isn't a diff, but a listing of the changelog with other items
<ibbo> ok, I've uploaded it to my personal ppa, can I associate a ppa with my project?
<micahg> ibbo: no, not at this time, PPAs are team owned, but you can add a note in the project description where the PPA is
#launchpad 2010-11-26
<ibbo> micahg: ok, thanks for your help
<ibbo> how long does it usually take for a package to show up in your ppa after uploading it?
<micahg> ibbo: a few minutes
<ibbo> ok, it's not shown up yet, I'll leave it until the morning
<aroman> Hey, I'm using Quickly to upload to a PPA (for the first time). I get an email saying that it was rejected because my PPA is disabled. I deleted the PPA a while ago. Why isn't Quickly/Launchpad using a working PPA? What's special about the first one I made?
<wgrant> aroman: You'll need to ask the Quickly developers.
<soren> Err... Any idea why I'm getting *hundreds* of e-mail about updates to https://code.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/glusterfs/trunk ?
<soren> I just unsubscribed now, but they're still pouring in.
<soren> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/59656210/vcs-imports-glusterfs-trunk.log <- Most recent import log... Should I expect 775 e-mails?
<jelmer> soren: you shouldn't get those emails on an initial import, but if somebody just pushed 775 revisions onto that branch it might happen.
<soren> jelmer: I guess they might have. It just seems a bit extreme.
<soren> I mean.. They seem to push these things in bulk, but never this volume.
<soren> They've done perhaps 40-50 before.
<soren> jelmer: You're probably right. Sorry about the noise.
<bigjools> sounds like they should be aggregated
<soren> It's a bit of an odd case. In general, I do actually prefer individual e-mails per commit. I'm used to scanning through the headers looking for interesting things.
<soren> This was a bit overwhelming :)
<soren> When they've done the 40-50 commits at a time, it's been fine.
<jelmer> Yeah, perhaps Launchpad should notice when it's about to send more than say 50 emails to a single person with this sort of notification.
<jelmer> I received more than a thousand for a single branch one time, my mail server was not happy :-)
<kostja_osipov> Hello. I have a special email address that I use in a git trigger to send patches whenever there is a push to a tree. The trigger executes successfully and I see that a mail has been sent successfully to tarantool-developers@lists.launchpad.net in the trigger log.
<kostja_osipov> However, the mail never arrives to the list.
<kostja_osipov> Does a sender need to be subscribed to a list to be able to send emails?
<kostja_osipov> There were no talk back either, seems that the mail is simply lost.
<jml> kostja_osipov: yes, it needs to be subscribed
<kostja_osipov> okay. thanks!
<kostja_osipov> jml: i started looking at tarantool-developers archive more closely, and discovered that launchpad doesn't deliver some emails that are in the archive to all of the team members. Some of my team members have never received a few emails that are present in the archive. They did, however, receive other email. What can be an explanation of that? These problematic emails came from a email address that is registered on launchpad, but is not the primary
<kostja_osipov> it seems that auto-subscription to the team mailing lists that is used when a member joins the team doesn't work
<Mez> o_O Mr Revell is not here?
<kostja_osipov> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/681813
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 681813 in Launchpad itself "Team mailing list feature simply doesn't work (affected: 1, heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]
<soren> kostja_osipov: Just curious.. Your e-mail address wouldn't happen to be a gmail one, would it?
<kostja_osipov> i send from osipov at corp.mail.ru. my recipients are also at corp.mail.ru
<soren> Ok.
<kostja_osipov> the funny thing is that I do get email. my list subscribers don't
<kostja_osipov> also, email from launchpad itself does go through. and email does show up in the archive
<kostja_osipov> most of the time it's delivery that's broken.
<soren> I've just seen GMail silently discard e-mail with a @gmail.com sender address, not originating from one of their mail servers.
<soren> kostja_osipov: Do you control the mail server in question?
<kostja_osipov> in what way?
<soren> kostja_osipov: Can you look at its logs?
<soren> I mean... Do you actually know for sure that Launchpad doesn't attempt delivery?
<soren> I'm not saying it does. It's just good to know for whoever's going to work on it.
<kostja_osipov> soren: no, I am  not 100% sure. But it would be a very weird behavior on behalf of the receiving server: to accept some mails, but not others
<kostja_osipov> i.e. the issue is that say, email from 681813@bugs.launchpad.net sent to the list got delivered to all
<kostja_osipov> but this mail:
<soren> kostja_osipov: It would also be very weird if Launchpad only sent some of the e-mails on the mailing list :)
<kostja_osipov> https://lists.launchpad.net/tarantool-developers/msg00029.html
<soren> kostja_osipov: It's just not completely clear where the weirdness is.
<kostja_osipov> did not get delivered to the send and a few others
<kostja_osipov> yes, it's unclear, i agree.
<kostja_osipov> s/to the send/to the sender/
<kostja_osipov> soren: hm..
<kostja_osipov> there is a chance you were right.
<kostja_osipov> i came to our corporate antispam department, and it turns out their DKIM configuration had issues
<kostja_osipov> I'm waiting for results.
<kostja_osipov> soren: there was a bug in our anti-spam system. it's resolved now. thank you so much for the insight!
<kostja_osipov> (and I closed the bug as invalid)
<soren> kostja_osipov: No problem :)
<hazmat> is ther any way via the launchpad api to resolve the projects a person has contributed to.. or at least is a member of the driving team?
<aroman> How come staging.launchpad.net is out of sync with launchpad.net?
<beuno> aroman, define out of sync?
<jml> aroman: we deploy new code to staging so people can test it. however, it runs against an old copy of the data.
<aroman> jml, Well, does it _ever_ resync?
<jml> aroman: yes, about once a week, I think
<aroman> jml, Oh boy.
<jml> aroman: why does it matter?
<aroman> jml, I'll explain my situation.
<aroman> jml, So I'm using Quickly, and I tried to publish my project to my PPA on launchpad. Because of some issues, I had to create a second launchpad account, and delete/deactivate the first one. This all went basically fine. In order to get quickly to work with my launchpad account, I need to tell Launchpad to allow quickly to access it. This is done via the launchpad staging system. However, my account was deleted just yesterday, and
<aroman> staging doesn't know about it.
<jml> aroman: why are you using staging at all?
<aroman> aroman, That's what quickly uses. I assumed it was because the functionality to allow desktop applications to work with launchpad on my behalf wasn't availible in launchpad proper.
<jml> hmm.
<jml> I'm fairly certain that's not the case
<beuno> quickly probably defaults to staging for development purposes
<aroman> actually,
<jml> aroman: were I you, I'd ask about this on #quickly, see if they can help you point it at the real Launchpad
<aroman> now that I think about it, you're right.
<aroman> I did this via the --staging argument, which I found by digging into the code of quickly itself.
<jml> ah :)
<aroman> the reason i did this was because it seemed to be the only way to get quickly to switch from my old account to my new account
<aroman> and sadly --purge remove'ing it didn't reset its prefs.
<jml> oh, you might have to do something irritatingly tedious like look in ~/.launchpadlib and delete some credentials
<aroman> that's the sort of thing I was hoping to hear about :)
<jml> it varies based on the client app
<aroman> by the way, quickly share --staging even says: WARNING: you are using staging and not launchpad real production server
<aroman> I need to read better
<aroman> :)
<jml> if humans paid attention to warnings, the world would be a strange place indeed
<aroman> Do you know where I can find the prefs to nuke to reset my connection with launchpad?
<aroman> YES!
<aroman> $ locate is _the_ most useful command. Found the actual module that manages launchpad integration, and found where it's reading settings from
<aroman> ~/.cache/lp_credentials/lp-cache/
<aroman> got the launchpad thing straightened out. I quickly share'd my app, got the accepted email, and trying to apt-add-repository, but it gives me Error: can't find signing_key_fingerprint at https://launchpad.net/api/1.0/~aroman/+archive/purple
<aroman> nevermind, it fixed itself.
<ibbo> I tried to upload a package I made to my ppa yesterday, but it failed due to it being mixed binary and source. It is a game, so there are media files as well as source. I guess I'll have to split my package in to parts, but I'm struggling to find info on how to do that, can someone point me in the right direction?
<lifeless> ibbo: I htink the message has confused you
<lifeless> ibbo: when you prepare it for upload you need the -S switch to debuild
<ibbo> that doesn't surprise me
<lifeless> packages have (at the highest level) two components - a Source package and a Binary package.
<lifeless> we only accept Source packages
<lifeless> but the content of a Source package can be binary files
<lifeless> the -S option to debuild/dpkg-buildpackage tells it that you want a source package only.
<ibbo> right, ok
<ibbo> I think because my project is pure python it makes less sense for there to be a binary/source distinction
<ibbo> which I guess is what was confusing me
<lifeless> indeed
<ibbo> well source package has uploaded, just have to wait for it to appear, thanks for the help
<maxb> When does PPA support for Jaunty get turned off?
#launchpad 2010-11-27
<bdrung> hi, someone added SPAM to bug #603656 - how can i get it removed?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 603656 in eclipse (Ubuntu) "[maverick] Package "eclipse" has broken dependencies. (affected: 8, heat: 43)" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/603656
<ari-tczew> could someone check whether this branch does work? lp:~pavolzetor/ubuntu/natty/liferea/liferea-test
<maxb> ari-tczew: What about it?
<ari-tczew> maxb: when I try to show via http://LP, I got an error 'ooops!..
<maxb> ari-tczew: It seems to be working for me, what is the *exact* URL that oopses?
<ari-tczew> maxb: https://code.launchpad.net/~pavolzetor/ubuntu/natty/liferea/liferea-test/+merge/41469
<maxb> ari-tczew: So, it is the merge proposal, not the branch, that oopses
<ari-tczew> bdrung: could you look at it in sponsors overview? ^^
<bdrung> ari-tczew: it oopses for me too
<ari-tczew> bdrung: where is the problem? in sponsors overview or launchpad?
<bdrung> ari-tczew: launchpad
<ari-tczew> maxb: ^^
<tonyyarusso> Hi, I'm trying to figure out how to set up my bazaar branches with Launchpad to split at certain milestones.  Could someone tell me how to make it so the generated series graph looks something like this?  http://files.tonyyarusso.com/launchpad-code-question.png
<lifeless> I don't think the series code references the bazaar branch content
<tonyyarusso> lifeless: I'm not sure I'm using the right terminology for what I mean, but I want the generated thing shown on pages like https://launchpad.net/gwibber/+series to look like that graph I linked.
<lifeless> I've no idea how to achieve that
<tonyyarusso> Basically to show that the major releases are not developed in parallel, but all lie on the trunk series, with splits to allow for post-release updates.
<wgrant> tonyyarusso: You can't. I filed a bug about it years ago, and was told that it wasn't intended for that sort of thing.
<wgrant> Although it certainly looks like it...
<lifeless> wgrant: I don't see why we couldn't, but making it pretty in that fashion would count as wishlist for staff time, at least at the moment
<tonyyarusso> wgrant: Really?  Well that's rather silly.  :(
<tonyyarusso> I thought the point of that graph was to convey information about how the series related to each other, but apparently it's just to take up space?
<tonyyarusso> lifeless: I don't even need the color coding - that was just to make it more obvious.  The shape is the important part for now.
<lifeless> we don't model a graph though
<lifeless> as I say, if someone wanted to develop what you want, I'm pretty sure the patches would be welcomed
<tonyyarusso> What do you model?  I'm unclear on what the current intended purpose for that graphic on the Gwibber page is if it can't do this.
<lifeless> its a pithy way to show the series and releases
<wgrant> tonyyarusso: Bug #386628 is what I was remembering.
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 386628 in Launchpad Registry "Project timeline doesn't show relative release dates in different series (affected: 1, heat: 0)" [Undecided,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/386628
<wgrant> Pretty relevant.
<wgrant> Doesn't quite cover the branch point, but it was a similar idea.
<lifeless> neither series nor milestones(releases) have a parent relation
<lifeless> the lines are just guesswork
<tonyyarusso> guesswork attempting to represent what lifeless ?
<lifeless> a pretty displau
<tonyyarusso> Of *what*?
<lifeless> the series and milestones
<wgrant> IMO it should look like the non-LP graphic that you linked, centered on the last milestone.
<wgrant> s/last/latest/
<tonyyarusso> ie, what is the added value of the current display over a picture of a kitten with milestone names randomly attached to body parts?
 * tonyyarusso is confused :P
<lifeless> tonyyarusso: I don't know that there is any added value
<tonyyarusso> lifeless: There we go :)
<lifeless> beyond showing the sort order of the names
<tonyyarusso> All righty then.  Well, feel free to distribute that graphic I made to anyone who might be interested in pursuing such a thing as an explanation.
<maco> the value added on the kitten would be in Cute Currency though
<wgrant> maco: I'm sure Curtis would welcome kitten-bearing branches.
<lifeless> april is coming up
 * tonyyarusso files a new bug
<tonyyarusso> wgrant, lifeless: You'll have a new bug notification in your mailbox if you care to follow up sometime.
<Lcawte> yay, I finally remembered my password for Launchpad :|
<bdrung> hi, are some launchpad css hacker around? the sponsors overview uses an old launchpad.css file. i want to use a newer version of it and need some advice.
<nigelb> bdrung: You'd have better luck on a working day
<bdrung> with the old launchpad.css the page look like this: http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/ With the current launchpad css file it look like this: http://people.ubuntu.com/~bdrung/sponsoring/
<bdrung> nigelb: yes
 * nigelb hacks on css, but not LP css
<nigelb> I can take a look
<nigelb> bdrung: why is the table taking the whole space? It looks so odd visually ;)
<nigelb> OH, new is waaay better than old :-)
<bdrung> nigelb: make sure that adblock-plus doesn't block the css file
<nigelb> bdrung: no, I don't use adblock plus, unfortunately I help make a lot of stuff that adblock blocks
<nigelb> bdrung: What's goign wrong, what do you need help with?
<bdrung> nigelb: everything is centered with the new css file and the title of the table isn't bold
<nigelb> bdrung: are you okay with modifying the css file?
<nigelb> I can tell you what to add
<nigelb> or you can create a new file and include it as a second css file
<bdrung> nigelb: i am not sure, if it would be better to use classes from the css or add a second css file for it
<nigelb> bdrung: you don't use classes
<nigelb> just use th {font-weight:bold;} and table tr td {text-align: left;}
<bdrung> nigelb: we use some classes
<nigelb> bdrung: well, there is only 1 table
<nigelb> you can give it as a generic css
<nigelb> bdrung: Also, the classes used are not for styles, its for the sorting
<bdrung> nigelb: my question was: does launchpad.css provides some classes that we want to use?
<nigelb> bdrung: Ah, my mistake.
<nigelb> Let me look at the css file
<nigelb> bdrung: can you give me path to css file?
<bdrung> nigelb: same directory
<bdrung> nigelb: http://people.ubuntu.com/~bdrung/sponsoring/launchpad.css
<nigelb> bdrung: Nope.  I checked the old css, they've done what I suggested :D
<nigelb> then lp classes are more or less lp specefic from what I can see
<nigelb> s/then/the
<bdrung> ok
<bdrung> then let's add a second css file
<bdrung> nigelb: just make it look good :)
<nigelb> bdrung: lol, let me get you an etherpad or pastebin
<nigelb> bdrung: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/sponsoringcss
<bdrung> nigelb: do you have a link to the exported version of the pad (for direct testing)?
<nigelb> bdrung: don't think you can hot link yet
<nigelb> bdrung: but I put it in firebug and tested
<bdrung> nigelb: ok, then it takes two steps to update http://people.ubuntu.com/~bdrung/sponsoring/
<nigelb> yeah
<bdrung> nigelb: the text below the table could be better aligned (looks very weird at the moment)
 * nigelb refreshes
<nigelb> bdrung: align left?
<bdrung> nigelb: that how it was done before
<nigelb> bdrung: okay, adding it in
<bdrung> nigelb: maybe we could restructure it even more
<nigelb> bdrung: yeah, that bit looks messed up
<nigelb> let me save the page and do it locally
<bdrung> nigelb: maybe use some columns
<nigelb> bdrung: that bit isn't tables
<nigelb> its just unordered lsits
<nigelb> *lists
<bdrung> nigelb: yes, every list put into one column like http://www.ubuntu.com/ at the bottom
<nigelb> bdrung: that means you'll need to put them in divs and float them
<bdrung> nigelb: i am open to changes
<nigelb> bdrung: let me try them out :)
<bdrung> nigelb: are you in the ubuntu-dev team?
<nigelb> bdrung: nope
<nigelb> bdrung: gah, this one's tricky ;)
<bdrung> nigelb: here you have the source: bzr branch lp:~bdrung/ubuntu-sponsoring/new-look
<nigelb> bdrung: oh thank you!
<nigelb> I've been doing this by hand with chromium, painful
<bdrung> nigelb: running ./sponsors-page.py will update the index.html file
<nigelb> awesome, thanks
<bdrung> nigelb: any progress?
<nigelb> I hate css ;p
<nigelb> If I get $a working $b isn't :/
<nigelb> bdrung: can I take till Monday
<nigelb> I can talk to a colleague and ask for help
<bdrung> nigelb: yes
<nigelb> \o/
<nigelb> I will do that then :-)
<bdrung> nigelb: do you have a quick fix for getting the text below the table left-aligned?
<nigelb> yeah
<nigelb> bdrung: let me fix it in the actual code and push
<nigelb> bdrung: ugh, there isn't a one-line fix
<nigelb> my oneline fix isn't fixing anything :p
<Muscovy> Is there a way I can import one bzr branch to another, to keep all the revision history?
<lifeless> push ?
#launchpad 2010-11-28
<RenatoSilva> is there ANY way to recover an overwritten branch. I have no idea why but I noticed that I overwrote an important branch
<micahg> RenatoSilva: find someone with an old copy?
<RenatoSilva> micahg: it's personal, certaintly no one has
<RenatoSilva> does Launchpad have backups?
<micahg> RenatoSilva: ah, idk, someone else might know
<RenatoSilva> I'd really appreciate if I could get it again, actually one file of that branch would be enougth
<RenatoSilva> *enough
<RenatoSilva> brb
<Peng> Disconnecting when I want to tell you something should totally be against the rules. :P
<wgrant> Indeed.
<wgrant> Hopefully it's all still in the repo?
<Peng> Yeah, that's what I wanted to say.
 * wgrant guesses lp:~renatosilva/+junk/trf
<Peng> snoop :P
<micahg> Peng: it's all public :P
<Peng> So's urmom.
<Peng> Wait, do we do stupid urmom jokes here?
<lifeless> no :)
<Peng> :(
<lifeless> we do classy ones instead.
 * RenatoSilva back
<lifeless> RenatoSilva: bzr heads can show you your old branch tip
<wgrant> RenatoSilva: Which branch? lp:~renatosilva/+junk/trf?
<RenatoSilva> does LP have branch backups?
<lifeless> bzr push never destroys revision history
<RenatoSilva> wgrant: yes, how do you know??
<wgrant> RenatoSilva: I am magical.
<RenatoSilva> heh
<lifeless> RenatoSilva: your branches, sorted by activity
<Peng> lifeless: Thinking wgrant was a witch was much better. Don't ruin it. :(
<wgrant> Well, I actually looked for recently modified branches at r1, with a creation date of ages ago.
<RenatoSilva> bzr heads can show you your old branch tip?
<Peng> RenatoSilva: Yes.
<wgrant> RenatoSilva: What was the last commit? "Graphical interface" on Nov 1?
<Peng> RenatoSilva: Do you still have a copy of this branch locally? You can just push up again.
<RenatoSilva> wgrant: likely that one
<RenatoSilva> Peng: unfortunately no :(
<wgrant> RenatoSilva: bzr co -rrenato_silva-20101101201138-bs1ddn3vk4c6hyg4 lp:~renatosilva/+junk/trf
 * RenatoSilva just noticed it was overwritten after 4 days, and has no idea how he could get so distracted to do that
 * RenatoSilva will never more use --overwrite pushes
<Peng> It's like with rm -rf -- useful at times, but be very careful. (But unlike rm -rf, bzr push --overwrite is fixable, as demonstrated here.)
<RenatoSilva> I should not be in my own body when I overwrote it with my colors fun script, I don't really remember it
<RenatoSilva> lifeless: sorry lifeless I don't get what you mean. Is 'bzr heads' a command? Not found here
<wgrant> It's probably in bzrtools.
<RenatoSilva> wgrant: oh got it here! thanks SO MUCH
<RenatoSilva> wgrant: would you tell me what you did for getting that cmd line? bzr heads?
<wgrant> RenatoSilva: bzr heads --dead lp:~renatosilva/+junk/trf
<wgrant> Then found the latest dead head.
<wgrant> And grabbed its revid.
<RenatoSilva> so when you overwrite a branch in bzr, it still keeps the old branch like just moving up the "pointer" to first commit?
 * RenatoSilva installs bzrtools
<wgrant> RenatoSilva: A branch is pretty much just a pointer to a revision ID in a repository.
<wgrant> When you push to a branch, you add the revisions to the repository, and update the pointer.
<wgrant> Repositories are pretty much append-only.
<RenatoSilva> top and bottom pointers right
<wgrant> Hm?
<RenatoSilva> a pointer to last commit and first commit
<wgrant> Just the last.
<wgrant> The first can be found by traversing the parents all the way up the three.
<wgrant> s/three/tree/
<RenatoSilva> there it is: https://code.launchpad.net/~renatosilva/+junk/trf
<RenatoSilva> wgrant, Peng, lifeless: thank you so much!!!
<grof002ax> Is there any way I can export all translations .po files from Rosetta for a project with bash file? Like using wget command or something. I don't want to use bzr, I only use Launchpad for translations. I also know that I can make a manual request to download all .po files, but is there a way I can automate this process using bash script. The project I am involved in is using weekly unstable releases and would be nice if weekly export woul
#launchpad 2011-11-21
<ianm_> I have a project with auto-pot-file-finding setup.  if I commit with the pot file gone (from root directory) and now in locate/templates and with many more strings for translation, will everything work OK?
<ianm_> (I downloaded a package of all .mo files from launchpad into locale/ and that included the .pot, and then I overwrote it with a newly generated one, and did not do 'bzr mv'.)
<sagaci> looks like it's down
<wgrant> sagaci: It's back now. http://blog.launchpad.net/notifications/fast-down-time
<sagaci> yep
<mrevell> Morning
<danhg> huwshimi
<dpm> hi launchpad folks. Could someone tell me if a translation template (e.g. po/mytemplate.pot) will be imported by automatic imports if the .pot file is a symlink?
<dpm> hey, anyone there who could help me with the question? "will a translation template (e.g. po/mytemplate.pot) be imported by automatic imports if the .pot file is a symlink?" thanks!
<Gwaihir> any launchpad dev out there? I have a "simple" question: is Launchpad sending notifications about team expiration? More than one person reported that they have never received a notification email... this is happening also for Ubuntu Membership renewals...
<nigelb> Is this very recent?
<nigelb> I was complaining about too much email about expiration like 2 to 3 weeks ago :)
<Gwaihir> nigelb, kind of... they told me yesterday, but the expiration was like one month ago
<nigelb> There was a bug a while back. I don't know if that's this.
<Gwaihir> also, other people never received a notification around the beginning of november
<nigelb> Let me quickly check, which week I had the email.
<Gwaihir> thx nigelb
<nigelb> Hrm, I had expiration emails in the first week of Nov.
<nigelb> Nov 7th was the last I had the email.
<Gwaihir> the person who didn't get the notification was set to expire on the 10th November
<Gwaihir> the other one was around the 9 of October...
<nigelb> Hrm, I don't know who's help contact for today.
<Corey> This may be better asked elsewhere, but: I'm digging into repackaging lighttpd for a one line patch that's been outstanding since 2005.  Rather than re-inventing the wheel, is there a straightforward way to grab the preexisting dsc files so I can tweak accordingly?  Not too interested in redoing it all just because I know best. ;-)
<tumbleweed> Corey: yes, it is better asked elsewhere, e.g. #ubuntu-packaging. But you want pull-lp-source in ubuntu-dev-tools
<Corey> tumbleweed: Thanks!
<mgariepy> hello, I have an account on launchpad and i cant find a way to change my password... on my detail page it doesn't show anything about password change
<nigelb> mgariepy: login.launchpad.net should get you to such a page.
<nigelb> launchpad doesn't store your credentials.
<nigelb> login.launchpad.net is the Single-Sign On which is under the same domain, but isn't actually part of launchpad.
<mgariepy> would it be possible to add a link in detail page of my account ?
<mgariepy> or any account..
<nigelb> Like I said, its not really launchpad which does this.
<nigelb> So, it doesn't belong in launchpad.
<mgariepy> ok thanks for you time
<xaprb> I want to add a new status to my bug tracker, so I can close bugs as CantReproduce. I can't find this in Launchpad or through Google. Can someone point me to the right place?
<xaprb> s/to my bug tracker/to my project's bug tracker/
<Chipaca> hi all. I'd like to create a sub-team, but can't seem to find what to click :)
<Corey> I've added (successfully!) a package to my PPA, but now when I try to add the PPA, I'm getting Error: can't find signing_key_fingerprint at https://launchpad.net/api/1.0/~kb1jwq/+archive/ppa.  The notes say that generating the key after the first package upload can take several hours, but how do I verify that that's the actual issue, and not "I screwed something up?"
<tumbleweed> that's almost certainly the issue
<Corey> tumbleweed: How will I know when the key has been generated?  Is there a flag that gets set in Launchpad somewhere?
<tumbleweed> Corey: under "Technical details about this PPA" you'll se a "Signing key" listed
<Corey> Ahhh.
<Corey> That's blank.
<Corey> That'd do it. :-)
<Corey> Ah, now the key is generated, but hasn't made its way to the keyserver yet.  So many moving parts!
<thopiekar> Hi
<thopiekar> Could you please remove "maliit-plugins - 0.80.8~stable~r1526~pkg10~oneiric1" fully from ppa:maliit-team/ppa, so a package with the version 0.80.8~releasepkg1526+10~oneiric1  can be uploaded? thanks
<tumbleweed> thopiekar: it doesn't work like that
<thopiekar> I know removing packages will leave something on the PPA and a lower version won't be uploadable like before.. tumbleweed, how can it be done?
<tumbleweed> thopiekar: why the change in version format?, looks like the same revision
<thopiekar> sure but changes on the source won't be uploaded by the recipe now.. while s is higher than r
<tumbleweed> thopiekar: then why di dyou change the recipe?
<danhg> mrevell
<tumbleweed> thopiekar: even if you could make the ppa accept a lower version, which you can't, nobody would upgrade any more, because apt won't upgrade to a lower version (that's why the PPA won't let you upload a lower version)
<thopiekar> well our coding team decided to call the packages an other way.. I were thinking about stable, but the software isn't really stable still the latest release..
<thopiekar> sure..
<tumbleweed> how about unstable, then, u comes after s :)
<thopiekar> thats why I wish this package would be remove again..
<thopiekar> tumbleweed: unstable is placed in a daily ppa
<tumbleweed> and 0.80.8 > 0.80.8~unstble123+45~whatever
<thopiekar> there are the nightly builds
<thopiekar> is a + or - higher than ~?
<thopiekar> or better: what is higher than ~?
<tumbleweed> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html#s-f-Version
<tumbleweed> ~ is special
<thopiekar> would be 0.80.8.0~ higher than 0.80.8~?
<tumbleweed> $ dpkg --compare-versions '0.80.8.0~' '>>' '0.80.8~' && echo Yes || echo No
<thopiekar> thanks!
<thopiekar> btw. whats up with the builders?
<tumbleweed> https://launchpad.net/builders
<Corey> Who do I bribe and what does it cost to boost the priority on an i386 build for my personal PPA? :-)
<cjohnston> Is it possible to have an alias for a team as it is for a project?
<lifeless> no
<cjohnston> ty lifeless
* flacoste changed the topic of #launchpad to: Mailing lists service is degraded: investigation under way | https://launchpad.net/ | Help contact: - | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<dobey> you guys know what would be awesome?
<dobey> private attachments on public bugs
<EvilResistance> but if they're public bugs the attachments should be public as well
<EvilResistance> hence the name "PUBLIC bugs"
<dobey> not necessarily
<EvilResistance> well then i ask you
<EvilResistance> what would be the usefulness of this feature?
<EvilResistance> because the public sometimes submits bug fixes
<EvilResistance> for projects they may not even be a member of
<EvilResistance> (case in point: me and a few projects)
<dobey> for users to attach logs, that only the project owners can see, but which regular people cannot
<dobey> i didn't say all attachments should be private
<EvilResistance> therefore you are invalidating the entire concept of public bugs
<EvilResistance> when a bug is posted publicly
<EvilResistance> the intent is so that the public can assit with it
<EvilResistance> perhaps even fix it
<dobey> sigh
<EvilResistance> by posting logs detailing an issue...
<EvilResistance> but hiding that from the public
<EvilResistance> you therefore prevent the public collaboration which Ubuntu and other projects are so familiar with
<dobey> well if you want to post your own potentially private data in public view, then go ahead.
<dobey> also, who are you, since your /whois provides no useful information at all
<EvilResistance> i'm a member of the ubuntu community ;P
<EvilResistance> you can ascertain that by the end part of the host name
<EvilResistance> ubuntu.resistance
<EvilResistance> where resistance is my nickname
<EvilResistance> and ubuntu is the project
<EvilResistance> if you'd like, feel free to scan my launchpad: https://launchpad.net/~trekcaptainusa-tw
<cjohnston> whats the difference between having a public bug with private attachements vs a private bug with private attachments?
<EvilResistance> ^
<EvilResistance> that
<cjohnston> either way you are as you say 'preventing the public collaboration'
<dobey> cjohnston: because people who aren't subscribed to private bugs cannot see anything about the bug at all
<dobey> and the only reason it's private, is because someone has an attachment of logs or something, with possibly private data
<cjohnston> dobey: im trying to support your opinion :-P
 * EvilResistance can interpret cjohnston's original question as working in favor of EvilResistance's opinion
<EvilResistance> cjohnston:  your question was worded like an expert attorney :P
<dobey> cjohnston: your comments are worded against it, rather :)
<EvilResistance> depending on the answer of course
<EvilResistance> :P
<cjohnston> EvilResistance: yes. i do agree.. so basically.. why not
<cjohnston> if i can see the bug, and the description, and i say, oh wait.. i have that problem too...
<cjohnston> but i just cant see the OPs logs
<EvilResistance> but consider
<EvilResistance> someone not having this problem
<EvilResistance> but is willing to attempt to fix it
<EvilResistance> or rather
<dobey> probably doesn't care to fix it
<EvilResistance> someone having this problem
<EvilResistance> but is willing to fix it
<dobey> because you can't fix soemthing you can't see yourself, unless it's a very obvious thing
<dobey> which it usually is not
<EvilResistance> without the logs we cant fix it
<EvilResistance> that's the issue
<cjohnston> but that is no different than someone not having this problem and not being able to see the bug anyway
<EvilResistance> ^
<EvilResistance> but the issue is ***why*** people provide logs of issues
<cjohnston> EvilResistance: not necesarally
<EvilResistance> they provide it so people can ***find*** whats wrong and fix it
<cjohnston> many times, yes.. not all times relevant tho
<EvilResistance> consider the Ubuntu packages.  Not every package is actively checked
<dobey> EvilResistance: please stop arguing just for the sake of disagreeing
<EvilResistance> dobey:  i dont see a launchpad staff nick on you, nor do i see you in the ops list, nor do i see freenode staff cloaks on you
<EvilResistance> so you're not in an opinion to stop me from voicing my opinions
<EvilResistance> grah
<EvilResistance> you're not in a position, even
<lifeless> dobey: I think it would be very easy for folk to copy and paste from a private attachment into the bug body thus disclosing private info
<lifeless> dobey: so it would be a pretty effective foot-gun situation to setup
<dobey> lifeless: it's already easy to do that; but if only the reporter, and the bug team (?) can see the attachment, then that doesn't really seem like an issue does it?
<maxb> Whilst occasionally there's a genuine need to communicate debug info privately, most times logs should be fine to make available publically, such that any community member can assist
<lifeless> EvilResistance: hi; dobey's question was a pretty good one - we support private bugs already, precisely so that private content can be analysed without public disclosure of personally identifying information.
<EvilResistance> lifeless:  his question isnt about private bugs
<EvilResistance> its about allowing attachments to be private on public bugs
<dobey> maxb: but that's not true for certain projects
<lifeless> EvilResistance: there was no need to esclate your response so much
<EvilResistance> lifeless:  which therefore defeats the purpose of public bugs
<EvilResistance> lifeless:  sorry, kind of part of my nature... its gotten me in some trouble with freenode staff in the past
<lifeless> EvilResistance: actually, his question is about allowing currently private bugs to be public by keeping just some attachments private
<EvilResistance> lifeless:  i interpret the initial statement differently.
<EvilResistance> <dobey> you guys know what would be awesome?
<EvilResistance> <dobey> private attachments on public bugs
<lifeless> EvilResistance: he wants to *increase* publicness, not *decrease* it.
<EvilResistance> ^  that is the opposite of what you just stated.
<EvilResistance> save for that last line
<lifeless> EvilResistance: with the greatest respect, its not.
<tumbleweed> EvilResistance: we currently have lots of private bugs, this would let us have less of them
<lifeless> EvilResistance: his question asks about a situation that doesn't exist today, it makes no declaration of intent or path-to-that-situation
<lifeless> EvilResistance: assigning motivation, and speculating about cause and effect requires asking questions, not stating conclusions
<lifeless> maxb: indeed, and I don't think dobey will disagree with that.
<lifeless> maxb: however, the UK DPA and similar legislation elsewhere in the world is pretty clear about the obligation to protect personal (and personally identifying) information.
<lifeless> dobey: I believe it has been considered in the past and concluded to be an unacceptably high risk; tech wise we could quite easily do it.
<lifeless> dobey: I think we would want some rather rigorous user testing around such a feature, because the consequences can be pretty bad
<dobey> lifeless: i wonder if perhaps with some of the refactoring that has been happening, or will happen, in LP, if it's less of a risk now?
<dobey> lifeless: agreed
<maxb> It feels like the sort of thing that would be a UI nightmare to ensure first-time reporters used it right
<lifeless> dobey: I don't think we'd have an issue in making it happen in LP; the issue is in whether users make mistakes using it :)
<lifeless> maxb: yes, exactly.
<dobey> lifeless: hence suggestion of only reporter and bug driver/security team/whatever for the project, being able to see private bits
<dobey> lifeless: in which case, it wouldn't really be any more of a risk than the current situation, would it?
<maxb> Also would probably want to be opt-in on a project basis so that people only use it where there is a sufficient population of active bug triagers
<lifeless> dobey: sure it would - how many first time bug reporters would understand it such that when someone asks 'can you attach your dmidecode info' they don't copy and paste it into the bug directly?
<dobey> lifeless: well, assuming they aren't "file and forget" type of users, i don't know. but we should probably also work on those cases more specifically, such that we don't have people saying "can you run this command and paste it here?" in bugs, but instead such commands do the legwork for the users
<dobey> but it's a tough balancing act that, because the same situation exists if the bug isn't already private, anyway :-/
<lifeless> dobey: yes, I can see that. However this is why apport defaults to private bugs, no ? Open-after-processing-and-human-review.
<maxb> What's the use-case being aimed at here? attachments in an initial apport-filing, or ones created by a user?
<dobey> maxb: well, in this specific instance, from the user
<dobey> lifeless: does it for all bugs, or only some?
<maxb> And what's the content? Something the user understands is private, or something they need to be told might leak info?
<lifeless> dobey: crash reports I believe
<maxb> In apport's case, it's about protecting core-dumps, mainly, IIUC?
<lifeless> anyhow, since this is now cosntructive discussion, I'm going to leave you folk to it :)
<dobey> lifeless: right; but ubuntu-bug foo doesn't i guess?
<dobey> lifeless: actualy, on +filebug, i don't see any way to make it private by default, other than to say "this is a security problem"
<dobey> lifeless: so i'd have to file, then mark it private, then upload attachments
<dobey> anyway; just suggesting it would be an awesome feature, because (LP: #PRIVATE) in debian/changelog is no fun :)
<maxb> It does seem to make a lot of sense, *if* the restricted material can actually be constrained to the attachments
<dobey> maxb: it makes sense to me anyway, and i think it's not really any worse than the current situation; assuming people are never going to make silly mistakes, is a silly mistake. :)
<maxb> ooi, what project / particular restricted material were you thinking of?
<dobey> maxb: ubuntone stuff. ubuntuone-client logs have filenames/paths in them
<dobey> so basically we just let the user decide whether or not that is private to them right now, and just have the bug be private
<dobey> also, the new "just 404 on private bugs" behavior is really annoying with irc bots :(
* gary_poster changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net/ | Help contact: - | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<thopiekar> Could you please abort https://code.launchpad.net/~thopiekar/+archive/plasma-dev/+recipebuild/123034 and https://code.launchpad.net/~thopiekar/+archive/plasma-dev/+recipebuild/123033 ?
<dupondje> somebody alive in here atm ? :)
<wgrant> No.
<dupondje> :)
<dupondje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/papyon/+bug/887349
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 887349 in papyon (Ubuntu Lucid) "Can't login in Windows live acount using empathy" [High,Triaged]
<dupondje> seems to be a bug in Launchpad I guess
<dupondje> it doesn't show 'Show all comments' at the bottom
<lifeless> dupondje: we load them all always now
<wgrant> lifeless: No, something's borked here.
<wgrant> Look at the bug.
<wgrant> There are at least two large gaps in the comments.
<dupondje> they are not all displayed for sure
<wgrant> Ah
<lifeless> ah 41-65
<wgrant> In fact, all the comments are there.
<wgrant> They're just loaded in the wrong place.
<wgrant> 41-65 are loaded between 14 and 15
<lifeless> yay regression
<dupondje> and there are more comments also
<dupondje> #105 etc exists also :)
<dupondje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/papyon/+bug/887349/comments/105
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 887349 in papyon (Ubuntu Lucid) "Can't login in Windows live acount using empathy" [High,Triaged]
<wgrant> s/etc//
<lifeless> off by one error
<lifeless> two bugs
<lifeless> gmb!
<dupondje> btw, if you refresh, you get 'Click here to view all 105 comments'
<dupondje> but it gets removed with some ajax load
<lifeless> yes
<lifeless> so comment 0 is the initial description
<lifeless> I think there is a fencepost error hiding the last bug, and something else affecting the comment orders
<lifeless> the comment numbers are assigned once on receipt, but comments are sorted by date (IIRC), so it could be wacky dates - but the dates on that block of comments look sane
<dupondje> seems to be a cool one ;)
<lifeless> dupondje: would you do us a favour and file a bug for this?
<dupondje> ofc :)
<dupondje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad here I guess?
<dupondje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/893375
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 893375 in Launchpad itself "Comment order wrong and not all comments shown" [Undecided,New]
<StevenK> But it's wrong.
<StevenK> All comments are shown, they're just mis-ordered
<dupondje> Where do you see comment 105 ? :)
<StevenK> Neat
<dupondje> :)
#launchpad 2011-11-22
<mrevell> Hallo
* rvba changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net/ | Help contact: rvba | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
* wgrant changed the topic of #launchpad to: Translations unavailable from 10:00-12:00UTC | https://launchpad.net/ | Help contact: rvba | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
* wgrant changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net/ | Help contact: rvba | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<Laney> could someone very kindly rescore a recipe build? https://code.launchpad.net/~meebey/+archive/smuxi-daily/+recipebuild/123206
<wgrant> Laney: Done.
<Laney> wgrant: thank you!
<czajkowski> aloha
<czajkowski> mrevell: you're busy blogging lately, well done :p
<mrevell> I am?
<mrevell> czajkowski, sinzui and poolie have blogged; I've done little more than status updates. danhg is about to make his first blog post, though :)
<mrevell> but thanks czajkowski :)
<czajkowski> mrevell: not complainign I like the advance notice of stuff for schedueled maintenance
<czajkowski> tis nice
<mrevell> ah, I thought we'd always done that :) But yes, glad it's doing the trick.
<dpm> hi rvba (or anyone else), could you help me with a question? I'm trying to find out if automatic translation imports will import a template in a branch if the template is a symlink to a .pot file instead of a plain .pot file?
<rvba> dpm: Hi, let me try to find the answer to your question.
<dpm> thanks :)
<Oleg|percona> Hi guys
<Oleg|percona> Hi guys
<rvba> dpm: I think symlinks are excluded  when the branch is scanned to avoid uploading a file  twice.
<Oleg|percona> oleg.tsarev (0) /storage/dev/percona/19557$ bzr branch lp:percona-server/5.1
<Oleg|percona> ssh_exchange_identification: Connection closed by remote host
<Oleg|percona> I change nothing, I double-check my ssh key on laucnhpad, but all is ok
<Oleg|percona> oleg.tsarev (0) /storage/dev/percona/19557$ bzr branch lp:percona-server/5.1
<Oleg|percona> ssh_exchange_identification: Connection closed by remote host
<Oleg|percona> bzr: ERROR: Connection closed: Unexpected end of message. Please check connectivity and permissions, and report a bug if problems persist.
<Oleg|percona> This is a bug?
<rvba> Oleg|percona: this might be a temporary network problemâ¦ is the problem reproductible?
<Oleg|percona> I have good connection, ping and traceroute wokrs ok
<Oleg|percona> But problem reproductible
<Oleg|percona> rvba: Ooops
<rvba> Let me try on my machineâ¦
<rvba> All ok here.
<rvba> Oleg|percona: ?
<Oleg|percona> oleg.tsarev (0) /storage/dev/percona/19557$ traceroute bazaar.launchpad.net
<Oleg|percona> traceroute to bazaar.launchpad.net (91.189.90.11), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
<Oleg|percona>  1  DD-WRT (192.168.1.1)  1.205 ms  1.264 ms  1.602 ms
<Oleg|percona>  2  176.36.118.1 (176.36.118.1)  5.076 ms  5.326 ms  6.031 ms
<Oleg|percona>  3  10.255.255.242 (10.255.255.242)  3.296 ms  3.374 ms  3.607 ms
<Oleg|percona>  4  prime.lanet (10.255.0.44)  4.446 ms  5.539 ms  5.524 ms
<Oleg|percona>  5  core.la.net.ua (194.50.85.241)  4.048 ms  4.455 ms  4.706 ms
<Oleg|percona>  6  77.222.135.65 (77.222.135.65)  5.921 ms  3.368 ms  2.437 ms
<Oleg|percona>  7  64.211.193.21 (64.211.193.21)  34.960 ms  35.715 ms  35.692 ms
<Oleg|percona>  8  xe-9-1-0.edge4.frankfurt1.level3.net (4.68.62.249)  35.674 ms  35.648 ms  35.960 ms
<Oleg|percona>  9  vlan70.csw2.Frankfurt1.Level3.net (4.69.154.126)  35.922 ms vlan90.csw4.Frankfurt1.Level3.net (4.69.154.254)  35.884 ms vlan80.csw3.Frankfurt1.Level3.net (4.69.154.190)  35.855 ms
<Oleg|percona> 10  ae-62-62.ebr2.Frankfurt1.Level3.net (4.69.140.17)  36.977 ms ae-82-82.ebr2.Frankfurt1.Level3.net (4.69.140.25)  36.944 ms  36.897 ms
<Oleg|percona> 11  ae-22-22.ebr2.London1.Level3.net (4.69.148.189)  46.037 ms  45.615 ms  45.935 ms
<Oleg|percona> 12  vlan103.ebr1.London1.Level3.net (4.69.143.93)  44.394 ms vlan104.ebr1.London1.Level3.net (4.69.143.97)  43.402 ms vlan102.ebr1.London1.Level3.net (4.69.143.89)  43.495 ms
<Oleg|percona> 13  ae-3-3.ebr2.London2.Level3.net (4.69.141.190)  51.545 ms  51.894 ms  51.863 ms
<Oleg|percona> 14  ae-2-56.edge4.London2.Level3.net (4.68.117.180)  44.542 ms ae-2-54.edge4.London2.Level3.net (4.68.117.116)  45.090 ms ae-2-52.edge4.London2.Level3.net (4.68.117.52)  45.408 ms
<Oleg|percona> 15  * DATAHOP-LTD.edge4.London2.Level3.net (212.187.192.178)  45.793 ms  45.770 ms
<Oleg|percona> 16  eth0.peumo.canonical.com (91.189.88.10)  45.726 ms  44.252 ms  44.899 ms
<Oleg|percona> 17  * * *
<Oleg|percona> 18  * * *
<Oleg|percona> 19  * * *
<Oleg|percona> 20  * * *
<Oleg|percona> 21  * * *
<Oleg|percona> 22  * * *
<Oleg|percona> 23  * * *
<Oleg|percona> 24  * * *
<Oleg|percona> 25  * * *
<Oleg|percona> 26  * * *
<Oleg|percona> 27  * * *
<Oleg|percona> 28  * * *
<Oleg|percona> 29  * * *
<Oleg|percona> 30  * * *
<Oleg|percona> rvba: Looks like canonical broke the route
<Oleg|percona> rvba: Do I right? Network problem on canonical side?
<dpm> ok, thanks rvba
<rvba> Oleg|percona: Not that I know ofâ¦ and I can branch your branch without problem.
<Oleg|percona> rvba: Can you show me your traceroute to bazaar.launchpad.net?
<Oleg|percona> rvba: Hm, now all ok
<rvba> Oleg|percona: http://paste.ubuntu.com/745982/
<rvba> Oleg|percona: ok, so this was a temporary glitch.
<Oleg|percona> rvba: I wait ten minutes before ask, sorry.
<rvba> Oleg|percona: no problem man.
<Oleg|percona> rvba: Anycase, now all right. Thank you very much!
<rvba> Welcome.
<graingert> there seems to be an odd bug in the +editpgpkeys page
<graingert> when sending a key it claims it will be encrypted with the key sizeR/ID
<graingert> however that's my signing key not the encryption key
<graingert> I then get a new key encrypted with my encryption subkey
<graingert> sorry message*
<rvba> graingert: I'm not sure I understand your problem here, do you mind filling a bug with a more precise description of the issue? (https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+filebug)
<graingert> rvba: I submit 4cfcc785e7e9294a84a55160991c1a9f5f6eec4f to the editpgpkeys page
<graingert> and get a message saying that I will recieve an encrypted email encrypted with 4096R/5F6EEC4F
<rvba> Ok so far.
<graingert> when I actually get a message encrypted with 4096R/B6D51144
<graingert> because 4096R/5F6EEC4F is sign only
<graingert> and  4096R/B6D51144 is my encryption subkey
<rvba> Ok, now I get it.
<rvba> So, it's worth filling a bug still ;)
<graingert> although now I'm getting a worse bug
<graingert> http://paste.ubuntu.com/746042/
<graingert> is that a crc error on the message
<graingert> rvba: https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/893660
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 893660 in Launchpad itself "incorrect key ID is declared in help message" [Undecided,New]
<rvba> Thanks for filling a bug graingert!
<graingert> np
<graingert> any idea about the CRC issue?
<graingert> do you get it with that message?
<graingert> rvba: ^
<rvba> Let me check.
<rvba> I get the same message you get graingert.
<graingert> okay so launchpad is sending invalid keys
<graingert> messages*
<graingert> *sigh*
<rvba> I think this calls for another bug if you don't mind filling another one.
<graingert> it might be because I only have revoked keys in ubuntu's key store
<graingert> it may not have picked up the new key
<rvba> Did you do that recently?
<graingert> yes
<graingert> but it should not send invalid messages
<graingert> it should check the output to see if the CRC is valid
<graingert> I'm now pushing explicitly to ubuntu keyserver
<graingert> nope
<graingert> still bad
<graingert> I'll wait a couple of days
<rvba> Good idea, one day should be enough.
<_ros_> Hi, I want to know if launchpad has mirrors, at least for the file download and if there is an officia list
<cjohnston> How do I add a project to a project group that I am the maintainer of
<cjohnston> Not create a new project though, add an already existing project
<mansson_> Hi. Is there any launchpadlib example collection anywhere? I'd like to understand how to do a basic search.
<jelmer> mansson_: the lptools project has lots of small tools that should be good examples
<mansson_> jelmer, thanks.
<EvilResistance> who do i bug to remove a project that i own which i want to discontinue?
<jelmer> EvilResistance: create a question on the launchpad project https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
* EvilResistance changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net/ | Help contact: rvba | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpadok
<EvilResistance> bah
<EvilResistance> wtf
* EvilResistance changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net/ | Help contact: rvba | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<EvilResistance> glitchy evil computer
 * EvilResistance punts his netbook out the window
<jelmer> no you didn't, you're still here :)
<EvilResistance> jelmer, ZNC ;P
<EvilResistance> not even on this system ;P
<SpamapS> Hmm, php5 hasn't been package-imported since early in the natty cycle.. http://package-import.ubuntu.com/status/php5.html#2011-10-26 07:51:59.623317 ..
<SpamapS> I'm guessing though that this isn't the actual problem..
<james_w> SpamapS, I retried it, but it hit another bug that hasn't been root caused yet unfortunately
<SpamapS> bzrlib.errors.RevisionNotPresent: Revision {kees@outflux.net-20101206211654-u8pyqg00wf55i2g9} not present in "Graph(StackedParentsProvider(bzrlib.repository._LazyListJoin(([CachingParentsProvider(None)], []))))".
<SpamapS> ?
<SpamapS> Thats what I hit when I run it locally
<james_w> that's the one
<Daviey> SpamapS: bug 888615 ?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 888615 in Bazaar "UDD branch freshness checker breaks on incomplete history" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/888615
<james_w> more https://bugs.launchpad.net/udd/+bug/848064
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 848064 in Ubuntu Distributed Development "Revision not present branching from udd-imported branches on lp" [Critical,Confirmed]
<james_w> though it's the same error in both, granted
<SpamapS> So..
<SpamapS> If I can find that revision and push a branch w/ that rev restored.. the importer might be able to catch up?
<james_w> SpamapS, indeed
<james_w> I don't know if bzr will fill it in though
<det> Is it typical for the build queue to be 17 hours ?
<dobey> typical? no
<flacoste> det, we are down by 17 builders, they should be back tomorrow
<flacoste> a queue builds up whenever this happens
<flacoste> some ppa builders are actually "on loan" from hardware enablement
<det> Thanks
<det> Sucks that this coincides with of this software project :)
<det> release of*
<jelmer> flacoste: hi
<jelmer> flacoste: I'd like to propose a configuration change - but I'm not sure where to do so, and who to discuss it with.
<jelmer> urgh, just noticed this isn't #launchpad-dev
<flacoste> hi jelmer
<Daviey> Hey, i386 PPA buildd's really has an estimated 47 hour queue?
<micahg> Daviey: see scrollback from an hour ago
<Daviey> micahg: thanks.
<Daviey> Really frustrating when we try to use it as a development resource for validation. :)
<RainCT> Hey
<RainCT> I think I already reported it some time ago, but https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/zeitgeist/+bug/807950 times out all the time here.
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 807950 in zeitgeist (Ubuntu Oneiric) "zeitgeist-daemon crashed with LookupError in remove_from_connection(): <_zeitgeist.engine.remote.RemoteInterface at /org/gnome/zeitgeist/log/activity at 0xb74ee2cc> is not exported at a location matching (None,None)" [High,Triaged]
<Laney> When did Soyuz come into existence?
<wgrant> Laney: Ubuntu migrated to it in Feb 2006
<Laney> We've written a script to pull down all Ubuntu SPPHs from LP and there is a huge number in 2005-12 â was it then?
<Laney> alternatively, what are they? :-)
<wgrant> eg.?
<Laney> 28568 entries
<Laney> was that some kind of preparatory import?
<wgrant> Ah, datecreated might be earlier, let me see..
<wgrant> It looks like 2005-12-21 was the initial import, and 2006-02-21 was the migration.
<Laney> so I should use the SPPH data after that date
<wgrant> As part of the migration, all Dapper publications were duplicated for reasons that are to me unknown.
<wgrant> Right.
 * Laney finds https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2006-February/000072.html
<wgrant> Everything from before 2006-02-21 is imported from dak.
<wgrant> Hmm
<wgrant> That is interesting.
<wgrant> Bah, yes, misread.
<tumbleweed> Laney: hrm, when we see 2005-12-21 we could defer to the .changes files
<Laney> I think the changesfiles /were/ the canonical source prior to the migration
<Laney> so we should just use them up until that date, and the SPPHs thereafter
<tumbleweed> even better :)
<tumbleweed> although, bug 885541 means we can't see many changes files
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 885541 in Launchpad itself "Badly named .changes files aren't traversable" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/885541
<wgrant> s/many/some for old security uploads and where people have lied/ but yes.
<Laney> mbox ones should be ok though
<tumbleweed> ah, actually I think all of those come after that date
<wgrant> Right.
<tumbleweed> wgrant: turns out it was pretty common for security uploads
<wgrant> The imported uploads probably don't have changes file.
<wgrant> tumbleweed: Oh yes, almost universal until 2008, I expect.
 * tumbleweed sees 569 such uploads
<Laney> we could write a script to merge the foo-changes.mbox generated data with the lp stuff
<tumbleweed> Laney: we still want lp stuff for breezy and early dapper, for syncs.
<Laney> yes, /merge/
<mansson_> Hi. Beginner's Question: Why are collections represented by an URL in launchpadlib? I don't get it.  bug.users_affected_collection_link[0].is_team doesn't work. The manual says that I get a person collection. If it is a collection, why cant I index it? What I really want is the importance of a bug, but what is importance an attribute of? It ought to be the list of affected things i.e. a Team - but a Team is a person and p
<mansson_> ersons din't have importance ?
<wgrant> mansson_: launchpadlib applies a layer of magic on top of the raw API
<wgrant> bug.users_affected[0]
<wgrant> Drop the _collection_link
<wgrant> _collection_link is the link to the collection, not the collection itself.
<mansson_> Ah. How ingenious.
<wgrant> launchpadlib dereferences foo_collection_link to a collection named 'foo', and bar_link to an object reference named 'bar'.
<wgrant> importance is an attribute of bug_task.
<wgrant> Bugtasks are the things that are presented in the Affects table on the bug page.
<wgrant> They have a target (eg. project, package, or series), status, importance, assignee, milestone
<mansson_> Thanks. I think that is all what I needed. Brilliant!
<wgrant> You get tasks from bug.bug_tasks
#launchpad 2011-11-23
<buzz_> argh! - builders - i386 	26 	1167 jobs (12 hours)
<buzz_> how did the queue get that big! :)
<wgrant> buzz_: An issue with a kernel security update took out most of the builders for a day or so. They're back now and catching up.
<buzz_> i see. good it is fixed anyway
<buzz_> thanks for the info.
<psusi> did I recently see the ability to remove a task from a bug was finally added?  how is this done?  I don't see a new command documented on https://help.launchpad.net/Bugs/EmailInterface
<wgrant> psusi: It's not exposed through the email interface.
<wgrant> Only the API and web UI.
<psusi> wgrant, wait, it's exposed through the web ui?  where?
<wgrant> psusi: Are you in launchpad-beta-testers?
<psusi> I forget ;)
<psusi> doesn't look like it atm
<wgrant> http://blog.launchpad.net/bug-tracking/removing-a-project-from-a-shared-bug-report
<wgrant> You need to be a beta tester.
<wgrant> And also have either created the task, or be the bug supervisor for the project/distro.
<psusi> wgrant, does that mean ubuntu-bugcontrol for ubuntu package tasks?
<wgrant> psusi: Right.
<psusi> k... can clean up those at least...
<psusi> say wait a second... can't I just reassign tasks to other projects back to Ubuntu, and then delete them anyhow?
<wgrant> Shhhhh
<psusi> ;)
<psusi> well, it's better than the NULL Project
<wgrant> Yup.
<psusi> any plans to add it to the email interface? ;)
<wgrant> psusi: No, but patches welcome :)
* jtv changed the topic of #launchpad to:  https://launchpad.net/ | Help contact: jtv | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<rousskov> Hello. Does anybody know how to mark a private branch as "private"? Yes, we paid Canonical to allow private branch hosting, but the freshly uploaded branch defaulted to public and I do not see a knob to change that. The "Change branch details" page does not have a "make private" option.
<wgrant> rousskov: Did you request private branches to be set up for your project?
<rousskov> How do I request that?
<lifeless> rousskov: hi, we need to do two things; toggle that branch to private, and setup a rule so new branches are private.
<wgrant> Best to ask at https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+addquestion
<lifeless> the former is probably time sensitive - can you msg me the branch name ?
<rousskov> https://code.launchpad.net/~measurement-factory/squid-future/bump-server-first
<lifeless> [more time sensitive]
<rousskov> It is not so secret, fortunately.
<lifeless> rousskov: we are right now overhauling this to make it much better
<rousskov> I hope so :-)
<lifeless> wgrant is one of the folk doing that ;)
<rousskov> I can delete that branch and start from scratch if it makes things easier.
<rousskov> wgrant, FWIW, I kind of expected "private" to be the default for paid-for projects because there is probably no reason to pay for a project if you do not need "privacy".
<spm> rousskov: that branch; and defaults against that project should be set to private now; have at it
<wgrant> Yeah, it's all a little bit odd at the moment.
<rousskov> spm, thank you.
<rousskov> What do I do when we are ready to make the branch public? Ask on https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+addquestion?
<lifeless> spm: did you set the policy to private-by-default (vs private-only) ?
<spm> just private, yes.
<lifeless> spm: can you make it private-by-default? That should permit rousskov to open them himself
<spm> sure
<lifeless> thanks
<spm> hang on. that's what I did set it to. :-) private, not provate-only. /confusion
<lifeless> rousskov: you should see a pen icon in the top right of the branch page. Click that to toggle/change privacy
<rousskov> Cool, thank you.
<rousskov> lifeless, I got "Sorry, something just went wrong in Launchpad." error while trying to specify a trunk branch for this project. Is it useful to discuss it here?
<rousskov> (it does not bother me much, but if it helps others, I can discuss details)
<det> When you upload a package that provides packages for "all" architecture, are those built separately from the i386/amd64/etc ?
<det> I uploaded a package that has been built/published for amd64 (and is currently building for i386), but the -common package (which is for architecture "all") has not been published
<wgrant> det: all packages are built in the i386 build.
<det> Thanks.
<jtv> det: the "all" builds are currently built as if they were i386, and then published in multiple architectures.
<jtv> det: I believe an "arch-all" package has to be published in all its architectures at once; maybe that's holding it up somehow.
<danhg> Morning
<oojah> Hello
<oojah> I'm getting an error when trying to dput to my ppa: 550 Changes file must be signed with a valid GPG signature: Verification failed 3 times: ['General error', 'General error', 'General error']: Permission denied.
<oojah> It is signed.
<oojah> Hmm, but I have just received an "upload accepted" email.
<geser> oojah: bug #798957
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 798957 in Launchpad itself "PPA Uploads are seemingly (but not actually) rejected" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/798957
<oojah> geser: Ok, thanks.
* jtv changed the topic of #launchpad to:  https://launchpad.net/ | Help contact: - | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<falstaff> Hi, I renamed the wrong .orig.tar.gz and uploaded it. Now I wanted to upload the correct one, but launchpad keeps rejecting my package. Yes I deleted the whole package from the Web UI
<falstaff> Is there a way to complete vanish an orig.tar.gz?
<lag> How do I view more than one changelog item when viewing packages in a PPA?
<christoph_debian> anything wrong with ppa upload atm? failing with a gpg verification message in dput when uploading the *.changes but it is signed and the key (including the used subkey) seems to be known to launchpad
<geser> did you got an email that it got rejected or accepted?
<christoph_debian> noticed dput failing and didn't expect mails in that case but indeed there are some
<christoph_debian> seems `Changes file must be signed with a valid GPG signature: Verification failed 3 times: ['General error', 'General error', 'General error'] : Permission denied.` does stand for `you use the wrong distribution`
<geser> there are 2 gpg checks: one at upload time (likes to fail) and a second one when the upload is processed. A failure at the first check is ignored, but the second check must pass.
<geser> christoph_debian: see bug #798957
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 798957 in Launchpad itself "PPA Uploads are seemingly (but not actually) rejected" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/798957
<eLBati> ciao
<eLBati> how bugs are decided to be displayed by default on bug tracker?
<eLBati> in other words, why this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/openobject-italia/+bug/890108
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 890108 in OpenERP Italia "l10n_it_account - il check delle date delle fatture non dovrebbe usare SQL" [Medium,New]
<eLBati> doesn't appear here https://bugs.launchpad.net/openobject-italia
<eLBati> ?
<cjohnston> How do I add a project to a project group? does it have to be done by a question?
<EvilResistance> i take it there's no launchpad admins watching the answers queue?
<EvilResistance> >=24 hours and no response to my answer/request
<lifeless> cjohnston: just set it as 'part of' in the project edit page
<lifeless> EvilResistance: there is a maintenance squad watching the launchpad-project answers queue
<cjohnston> lifeless: thanks
<nook> Is it possible that the global menu of Unity allways show the menu items? I dont want to hover the menu to see the items... That makes me crazy :(
<dobey> nook: i think this is the wrong channel for that question; you might want to try #ayatana or #ubuntu (or #unity if there is one)
<nook> ok thanks
<thopiekar> hi.. can you help getting this problem solved? We are using these packaging files lp:~maliit-team/+junk/maliit-framework-debian to package lp:~maliit-team/maliit/maliit-framework and we want to make them compatible to oneiric and natty while oneiric has multi-arch support and paths for the install files differ.. how can I make the debian files work on both releases?
<lifeless> thopiekar: hi; the #ubuntu-packaging channel is more likely to be able to help with that
<lifeless> thopiekar: they support folk doing packaging on Launchpad PPAs and Ubuntu itself
<thopiekar> lifeless: thanks!
<danielinux> sorry I got disconnected so I don't know if my question was answered...
<danielinux> my project has two branches, a "trunk" with last release 0.4 and a 0.5 branch for maintaining this version. I just released a 0.5, but on the download box the latest suggested file is still 0.4 is there a way to configure the download box on the overview page to show the latest released file (tarball for 0.5)?
<flacoste> danielinux: i think this portlet is cached...
<flacoste> let me confirm
<flacoste> danielinux: i'm wrong, it's not cached
<flacoste> danielinux: unfortunately, it's not configurable, and it's likely that we think release from trunk should sort higher than anything else
<danielinux> Ok, thanks flacoste. I would suggest to consider to sort them by date (this seems more logical to me, since the box description clearly states "latest")
<danielinux> anyway, thanks for looking into that
<danielinux> I luv launchpad.
<danielinux> goodnight
<marcoceppi> So, this is'
<marcoceppi> n't a support channel?
<lifeless> marcoceppi: why do you say that ?
<marcoceppi> The message I got from the room to seek support elsewhere, I've got hopefully a quick question
<lifeless> what message?
<lifeless> marcoceppi: if you mean 'Need help with Launchpad? Visit https://help.launchpad.net for the user guide. Still stuck or need to report spam? Go to https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad'
<lifeless> marcoceppi: that offers additional places for help, for when noone answers
<marcoceppi> Ah, thanks
<lifeless> marcoceppi: you are totally welcome to ask anything here
<marcoceppi> So I have a team setup in LaunchPad, since it's setup Launchpad has shown all of my commits as coming from that team
<marcoceppi> despite me not using that email in bzr whoami. How can I stop masquerading as the team?
<lifeless> whats the branch ?
<marcoceppi> whoami: Marco Ceppi <marco@ceppi.net>, bzr log: http://paste.ubuntu.com/747601/, Offense: https://code.launchpad.net/~charmers/charm-tools/trunk
<lifeless> are you talking about ~ondina?
<lifeless> brb, ELOCAL
<marcoceppi> lifeless: Yeah, It shows as ~ondina though I'd like it to come from ~marcoceppi
<poolie> hi marcoceppi
<marcoceppi> Hey poolie
<lifeless> marcoceppi: can you do
<lifeless> bzr log -n0 -r 83
<marcoceppi> Sure thing lifeless! http://paste.ubuntu.com/747605/
<lifeless> interesting
<lifeless> I have no idea whats up here
<lifeless> thumper: hey, do you happen to remember ^
<thumper> hi
<lifeless> thumper: wrong email address being associated w/commits
<thumper> whats up?
<poolie> i wonder if the bot has the same address or something
<marcoceppi> If it helps, my account and the ondina account once shared an email address, I changed the Ondina address to resolve this but it seems to have remembered>
<poolie> :)
<marcoceppi> (marco@ceppi.net)
<poolie> did you change that after 2011-11-20?
<thumper> is this linking revision authors to people?
<marcoceppi> I changed it about two weeks ago
<poolie> yes
 * marcoceppi looks for lp email
<thumper> ok... what happens is as follows
<marcoceppi> Sat, 19 Nov 2011 21:15:24 -0000 (11/19/2011 04:15:24 PM)
<thumper> when a new revision author is found
<thumper> the email address is looked up internally
<thumper> and the person with that email address is linked to that revision author
<thumper> once a person is linked, it is never looked at again
<thumper> if a person isn't found at that time
<thumper> it is looked up periodically
<thumper> and if found, linked
<poolie> right
<poolie> i wonder if it could be matching against a disabled address
<maxb> The hugely non-obvious bit is that the linkage is between *full revision author string* and LP person
<poolie> hi maxb
<maxb> Not between extracted email address and LP person
<thumper> well, the email part is extracted
<poolie> really?
<thumper> each full revision author string has a separate row in the revision author table
<thumper> there can be multiple rows containing the same extracted email address
<thumper> and depending on a point in time, these could potentially link to different actual LP people
<marcoceppi> So, how can I fix this?
<lifeless> thumper: thanks
<lifeless> so there are two things here I think
<lifeless> a) we shouldn't ever link to teams; teams don't do commits.
<lifeless> thats a bug, if its not filed already.
<lifeless> b) we can update the reference in the DB to not point at the team.
<lifeless> for that, please open a ticket at answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<marcoceppi> lifeless: Will this be retoactive? IE: Fix all previous commits?
<lifeless> marcoceppi: IIRC, yres.
<marcoceppi> Awesome, I can keep committing then :)
<lifeless> thumper: do you agree that (a) is a defect?
<thumper> if (a) happens, yes I'd agree it is a defect
<poolie> so if on the 20th
<poolie> that email address was no longer associated with the team
<poolie> why would revisions pushed on the 20th still get linked to the team?
<wgrant> poolie: BranchAuthor is forever.
<wgrant> Er, RevisionAuthor
<poolie> yes i know
<poolie> but how can new revisionauthor records be created, for new revisions, chasing a no-longer-existing user-email mapping?
<wgrant> No no.
<wgrant> Revision references a RevisionAuthor
<wgrant> RevisionAuthor is a (id, name, email, person)
<marcoceppi> Thanks everyone! https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/179802
<andy_js> Hi, I'm trying to install an instance of Launchpad but I'm encountering "OpenID Provider Is Unavailable at This Time" when I attempt to login.
#launchpad 2011-11-24
<det> Does this error make any sense?
<det> Changes file must be signed with a valid GPG signature: Verification failed 3 times: ['General error', 'General error', 'General error'] : Permission denied.
<det> I am sure I am signing with "debuild -S"
<det> Also the command says there are good signatures on the dsc and changes before it uploads
<det> And now I get email from launchpad saying the upload was Accepted ...
<mwhudson> is that the thing were /tmp gets cleaned up on the server every $N days?
<mwhudson> wgrant: ^ ?
<lifeless> we thought it was
<lifeless> now we're totally flummoxed
<lifeless> bug 798957
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 798957 in Launchpad itself "PPA Uploads are seemingly (but not actually) rejected" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/798957
<danhg> huwshimi
<mrevell> Morning
<pitti> hello everyone
<pitti> any idea when https://staging.launchpad.net/ will come back? it's down since at least yesterday
<wgrant> pitti: It's been down for a couple of days, but will hopefully be back in a few hours. Let me check.
<pitti> ah, thanks; the apport test suite runs against that, and I don't really want to make large changes without running it
<wgrant> Can you run it against qastaging instead?
<tumbleweed> on a related topic, can we have a non-production launchpad that's vaguely up to date? (qastaging pre-dates precise, and dogfood thinks we are on "rusty robot")
<tumbleweed> testing any package-related API client on non-production is impossible
<wgrant> tumbleweed: staging is normally refreshed every week. The last three months have been exceptional and it's gone 6 weeks without updating, but as of last weekend it should be updating weekly again.
<tumbleweed> ok, awesome, that's what I remembered
<pitti> wgrant: sure, if that's better; I just don't want to run it against production
<wgrant> pitti: Either is fine.
<wgrant> But only one is up right now :)
<wgrant> Hopefully staging will find its DB backup and the update will work in an hour or so.
<pitti> wgrant: is that also reset every day and synced to the real LP, or a separate DB like dogfood?
<pitti> test suite running, let's see how far it gets
<wgrant> pitti: It's reset every couple of months, normally.
<wgrant> Manually.
<wgrant> dogfood every 6 months, very manually.
<wgrant> staging automatically weekly, unless things are broken.
<pitti> it seems to hang eternally on uploading a crash, though
<pitti> perhaps this doesn't have a cronjob for processing blobc?
<pitti> blobs even
<wgrant> Ah, that's a good point.
<wgrant> I've just asked for staging to be brought up manually.
<wgrant> Hopefully it will be with us in a minute or so.
<pitti> wgrant: ok, cheers!
<wgrant> pitti: It's not that easy, unfortunately. The last update failed in a place that's less easily recoverable. Will have to wait a couple of hours for the update to rerun.
<andy_js> How do I get launchpad to really use OpenID instead of testopenid.dev???
* allenap changed the topic of #launchpad to:  https://launchpad.net/ | Help contact: allenap | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<brendand> i uploaded a package to the wrong series and then deleted it. now i can't re-upload it to the correct series because it say the tar.gz file already exists
<mrevell> We've just enabled our new customisable bug listings : http://blog.launchpad.net/?p=3005
<dobey> brendand: you need to change the version in debian/changelog. it should look something like $UPSTREAMVERSION-$UBUNTUVERSION~$SERIES[0-9+]
<brendand> dobey - doh. i really should have thought of that
<dobey> brendand: it's on the PPA help page I believe :)
<brendand> dobey - it doesn't say that actually. it suggests something more complicated
* allenap changed the topic of #launchpad to:  https://launchpad.net/ | Help contact: - | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<soren> Is there a bug about mailing lists being slow?
<dobey> also, the series obviously has to be correct in debian/changelog
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, is ppa.launchpad.net broken?
<chrisccoulson> i can't do any PPA uploads
<chrisccoulson> oh, ok, it seems to be working now
<aber> hmmâ¦ Repository size: 2.9 GiB (100.00%) of 2.0 GiBâ¦ Could I get a little more space? :D
<aber> https://launchpad.net/~widelands-dev/+archive/widelands-daily
<jelmer> aber: please file a question against the launchpad project, https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<lag> A little help
<lag> I get this:
<lag> Uploading linux-image-linaro-lt-ux500_3.0.0-1000.11_source.changes: 2k/3k550 Changes file must be signed with a valid GPG signature: Verification failed 3 times: ['General error', 'General error', 'General error'] : Permission denied.
<lag> Then the package appears in my PPA?
<Daviey> lag: Known issue, it's a false warning
<nailora> about that  Dynamic bug listings thing: currently it is a waste of screen real estate. i can see like 20% as much bugs as i could before.
<lifeless> hi
<lifeless> there is a thread about that. I think its on the launchpad-dev mailing list, but it might be launchpad-users.
<lifeless> or was it a bug, let me see
<lifeless> nailora: bug 894442
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 894442 in Launchpad itself "New bug list is much too sparse" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/894442
<nailora> thanks
<ajmitch> lifeless: any particular tags we should using when filing bugs about the dynamic listing?
<lifeless> abentley will know for sure, but IIRC bug-columns is th eone
<ajmitch> ok, thanks
<abentley> lifeless: correct.
<lag> Daviey: Ta
<ajmitch> oh that's a new error, "Unexpected form data"
 * ajmitch files another bug
<ajmitch> bug 894536
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 894536 in Launchpad itself ""Unexpected form data" error on https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ajmitch/+packagebugs" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/894536
<nailora> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs gets timeout errrors now
<flacoste> nailora: yeah, that's bug 892820 i think
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 892820 in Launchpad itself "Timeout on Distribution:+bugs" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/892820
<tumbleweed> OOPS-7c3f92710e2e281b7bf768d44f2527cb timeout on dynamic bug listings
<ubot5> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=7c3f92710e2e281b7bf768d44f2527cb
#launchpad 2011-11-25
<dpm> good morning. Could a losa help me with giving ownership of the https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-l10n-shn/+members team to 'kokoye2007'?
<gnuoy> dpm, let me take a look
<dpm> thanks gnuoy!
<gnuoy> np
<rvba> dpm: Hey David (nice to meet you btw), thanks for taking care of the Tai/Shan question ;).  If it's any help, Jeroen mentioned that he knows (as IRL) the guy so he might be able to help out if you have trouble communicating with the guy.
<dpm> rvba, nice to meet you too! :-) yeah, jtv got in touch with me already, thanks. Jeroen, as it seems he had interest in translating into Shan, I thought I'd make things easier for him and requested to make him the owner of the ubuntu-l10n-shn team.
<dpm> which has already happened
<rvba> Cool.
<jtv> Great.
<ubuntu-baltix> Hi all
<ubuntu-baltix> Maybe someone can help us to import Supertuxkart stable release code from SourceForge SVN?
<ubuntu-baltix> Import fails every time, see https://code.launchpad.net/~stk/stk/0.7.3
<ubuntu-baltix> jelmer told me "Unfortunately this is SourceForge hanging up on us on Launchpad while it is doing the import", see https://launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/179080
<ubuntu-baltix> Please tell us if there is a way to import just last revision of
<ubuntu-baltix> http://supertuxkart.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/supertuxkart/main/branches/0.7.3/
<ubuntu-baltix> We don't need full history of commits in this branch, we need just
<ubuntu-baltix> last code and, if this possible, a possibility to get new revisions from
<ubuntu-baltix> http://supertuxkart.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/supertuxkart/main/branches/0.7.3/
<dpm> Could someone help me with Precise translations? We'd like to open them in a couple of weeks time, and it seems copying the oneiric translations to precise failed (look at all the missing translations on https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+lang/ca - that page should have all stats in green). There was some info on launchpad-users about a failed copy operation, but could someone give me an update?
<dpm> jtv, ^^ ?
<rvba> allenap: jtv ^^
<jtv> dpm: we're on the phone about it _right now_
<dpm> ah, excellent :)
<jtv> It failed.
<jtv> So we had to delete data.
<jtv> Which failed.
<jtv> Because there were some unexpected references to the database rows we were deleting.
<jtv> Some of those were built without our personal involvement, so we had to get advice on what to do about them.
<jtv> Gavin's getting ready for new test runs.
<jtv> But failures to update the staging dbs have been causing us some pain here.
<allenap> dpm: We were thinking of opening translations on Monday. Is that too soon?
<jtv> We can't announce it until we're pretty confident that it's going to work this time, though.
<dpm> allenap, generally the ubuntu-translations-coordinators team decides when to open translations (as in making them visible to everyone) and are able to do so, as we've got permissions to change the translations status. I think you might be thinking of opening the imports queue, which should be ok to do on Monday if the current issue is sorted by then
<jtv> dpm: since we're in a call I'll just explain the details verbally.
<dpm> jtv, no worries, I'm happy to wait for a summary when you're done with the call
<jtv> dpm, plan: test the updated scripts today, and if successful, announce partial translations downtime for Monday so we can do a new production run.  After that, opening P translations is your call (depending on the state of the import queue, as usual).
<dpm> jtv, sounds like a good plan, thanks for the update
<jtv> Sorry for the chaos; the changes on our side have really diluted our focus on this.  I'm the only surviving Rosetta member.
<lifeless> jtv: isn't curtis ex rosetta too ?
<jtv> Never technically a member.
<jtv> Ursula was, actually, so this breaks down in all sorts of ways.  But I'm the only surviving long-term member.
<lifeless> :
<lifeless> )
<jelmer> ubuntu-baltix: you could do the import yourself manually, and then push that to launchpad
* rvba changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net/ | Help contact: rvba | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<ubuntu-baltix> jelmer: how I can import manually ?
<jelmer> ubuntu-baltix: using bzr-svn, run "bzr init import"; "bzr pull -d import URL -r500"; "bzr pull -d import URL -r1000"; etc
<ubuntu-baltix> jelmer: can I import just last revision of
<ubuntu-baltix> http://supertuxkart.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/supertuxkart/main/branches/0.7.3/  ??
<jelmer> ubuntu-baltix: you should be able to do that too, by just using "svn export" and then versioning that with bzr
<ubuntu-baltix> jelmer: if I import just last revision in this way, would it have a possibility to get new revisions from
<ubuntu-baltix> http://supertuxkart.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/supertuxkart/main/branches/0.7.3/ with launchpad.net web interface?
<jelmer> ubuntu-baltix: no, launchpad won't update the branch if you do a manual import
<ubuntu-baltix> jelmer: even if I import with bzr-svn commands "bzr init import"; "bzr pull -d import URL -r500"; etc
<ubuntu-baltix> ?
<jelmer> ubuntu-baltix: yes, launchpad doesn't import into user-managed branches
<TeslaFuture> how do i clone a repo?
<TeslaFuture> vm
<TeslaFuture> nvm*
<jelmer> ubuntu-baltix: we're going to change the batch size to 500 revisions, perhaps that will help
<popey> having real trouble with launchpad at the moment, possibly related to beta 'dynamic bug lists'
<ubuntu-baltix> jelmer: it would be nice, when you will change batch size to 500 revs?
<popey> I know someone has filed a bug because it shows up in his karma, but I can't find it
<popey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/~robinc
<popey> also clicking "Subscribed packages" gives "Unexpected form data" "Launchpad doesn't understand the form data submitted in this request."
<rvba> popey: that's indeed related to the new 'dynamic bug lists'.  It's a known bug.
<popey> can I opt out?
<rvba> popey: on second thought, maybe this one is new, I was thinking about bug 887214.
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 887214 in Launchpad itself "+packagebugs returns an unexpected form data error with new bug listing" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/887214
<rvba> popey: I suppose you can simply leave https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-beta-testers.
<popey> ok, left that team and now I still can't see any bugs relating to that user
<rvba> Let me try.
<popey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/~robinc turns up empty, but https://launchpad.net/~robinc/+karma
<popey> shows a bug filed
<rvba> Is the bug still open?
<popey> i used advanced search to tick all states
<popey> (I dont know, I cant find the bug) :D
<popey> https://launchpad.net/~robinc/+karma should IMO link to the bugs that it referrs to
<rvba> popey: do you still see the beta header after leaving the beta testers team?
<popey> no
<popey> and the subscribed packages page works now
<rvba> Good. And "Subscribed packages" works now?
<rvba> ?
<rvba> nm :)
<ubuntu-baltix> jelmer: when you will change batch size to 500 revs?
<rvba> popey: you bug was indded bug 887214. It's marked critical and should be fixed soon.
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 887214 in Launchpad itself "+packagebugs returns an unexpected form data error with new bug listing" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/887214
<rvba> popey: maybe the bug in question is private.
<popey> hmm, perhaps, yes.
<rvba> popey: I'll check with an admin, hang on.
<wgrant> popey: It's a private bug.
<popey> ok, thanks
<wgrant> Hmmm.
<wgrant> What.
<wgrant> It's not private, so why can nobody see it.
<wgrant> Ah, it's a dupe.
<wgrant> Bug #883093
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 872711 in linux (Ubuntu Oneiric) "duplicate for #883093 Kernel does not report some USB printers correctly, making them not being detected by CUPS" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/872711
<wgrant> It appears on his +reportedbugs if you select all statuses and uncheck "Hide duplicate bugs"
<popey> ah
<popey> why on earth would we hide dupes?
<wgrant> They're hidden from normal bug listings because they're not active bugs.
<wgrant> +reportedbugs uses the default settings.
<popey> ok
<cemc> hi. If I upload a package to build to my PPA, I get the confirmation email, and the package appears on the page, pending build, what happens if I change the ppa dependencies?
<cemc> which dependencies are used, those during upload time, or those that are selected when the package starts building?
<hyperair> probably when the package starts building.
<cemc> hyperair: thanks
<cemc> I started getting this since yesterday: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/749514/ . but the package still uploads and builds just fine. I found this: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/152715 . any way I can help track this problem down?
<gnuoy> Renegade15, the bug import you requested is done
<Renegade15> awesome!
<Renegade15> thank you :)
<lifeless> cemc: its all server side, sorry
<cemc> lifeless: oh, ok. no problem
<emgent> hello guys, someone here ?
<emgent> launchpad password reset function is fucked :-\
<lifeless> It actually not part of LP
<lifeless> login.launchpad.net is a skin on login.ubuntu.com
<lifeless> emgent: you may get some help in #canonical-isd
<Phantomas> Hello, if I have a moderated team in launchpad and a mailing list for this team, is it possible to allow subscriptions for everyone - not just team members?
#launchpad 2011-11-26
* rvba changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net/ | Help contact: - | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<eLBati> ciao
<eLBati> can anybody tell me why this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/openobject-italia/+bug/890108 doesn't appear here https://bugs.launchpad.net/openobject-italia ?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 890108 in OpenERP Italia "l10n_it_account - il check delle date delle fatture non dovrebbe usare SQL" [Medium,New]
<wgrant> eLBati: That only shows the 10 "hottest" bugs. There are 12 bugs open in that project -- you can see the full list by clicking "Search"
<wgrant> Or the "12 Open bugs" link on the right.
<eLBati> thank you wgrant
<ojwb> i get what looks like an error uploading to a ppa, but the uploads seem to succeed
<ojwb> seems to be repeatable
<ojwb> http://paste.debian.net/147064/
<ojwb> I used "dput -u", as I don't have a keyring on the machine I'm uploading from
<wgrant> ojwb: That's a known bug. You can ignore the error.
<wgrant> I'll get someone to restart it, which should make the error go away.
<wgrant> Hmmm
<wgrant> Actually, that's a different error.
<wgrant> That looks more like your changes file is not signed.
<wgrant> Do you get an Accepted email?
<ojwb> wgrant: i haven't for that one actually, but I saw an error which was either the same or very similar for the last few uploads which did succeed
<ojwb> looks like I failed to sign that one in fact
<ojwb> ah, typo in one of the paths I passed to debsign, and I missed the error message
<ojwb> with it signed, I don't get any error now
<emgent> hello guys
<emgent> someone around? login password recovery seems not work.
<exarkun> What is the expectation for https://code.launchpad.net/~gary/twisted/setuptoolsbug/+merge/7298 ?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 7298 in Ubuntu "pango's update of defoma is very noisy" [Low,Fix released]
<andi3> hi, how can I link/tag the bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/gdb-linaro/+bug/891970 to/with https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdb-msp430 ?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 891970 in mspgcc "msp430-gdb segmentation fault with target remote" [Undecided,New]
<enrico> Someone decided to subscribe me to a launchpad bug (655831) and it happened without any confirmation on my side. 1. WTF?  2. How do I ubsubscribe without logging into launchpad?  3. Can I report the thing as abuse, and how?
<czajkowski> enrico: it's not abuse
<czajkowski> someone A) may have done it by mistake B) thought the bug may of being relevant to you
<enrico> czajkowski: I consider it abuse if I'm not asked first
<czajkowski> enrico: viewing the page you should be able to hit the - symbol and remove yourself from it
<enrico> czajkowski: I appreciate my concept of abuse may be different than yours, though, but I'm uncomfortable in being forced to abide to yours by launchpad. If there is no way to do otherwise, I'll be closing my account.
<czajkowski> enrico: I'm not sure
<czajkowski> as far as I know, anyone can someone to a bug
<czajkowski> but one of the lp admins would know than me tbh
<czajkowski> enrico: maybe a bug should be filed if someone subs you to a bug you should be able to say yes or no
<czajkowski> never really occured to me before as I get added to a lot so I then follow up on them
<exarkun> czajkowski: imagine that someone wanted to bother you
<exarkun> czajkowski: and went from bug to bug, subscribing you
<exarkun> it can certainly be abuse.
<czajkowski> yup then it'd be abuse you're right. however I've never seen that happen
<czajkowski> perhaps that's the projects I'm on
<exarkun> czajkowski: I don't think I'm "on" any of the projects you're on
<czajkowski> enrico: does have a point
<exarkun> czajkowski: But I could just as easily do this to you as anyone else :)
<czajkowski> exarkun: you could, indeed as I said enrico does have a point, but I've never heard of massive abuse of subing someone to bugs tbh
<enrico> I am not active in ubuntu, my launchpad account exists for historical reasons and as a contact point for bugs that I submitted over the years and are still open. Since I do not have the time to follow the ubuntu side of software in which I am involved, people subscribing me to bugs such as 655831 force me to waste the time to deal with it, go and unsubscribe.
<enrico> A setting such as "prevent people to subscribe me to things" or just "I'm not an active Ubuntu developer" would be a valid alternative to deactivating the account
<dobey> exarkun: my manager does that all the time. really annoying! :)
<czajkowski> possibly the former would make mor sense than the later
<czajkowski> dobey: hah!
<Ampelbein> enrico: I agree with you about the "ask before being subscribed thing". About having to login to LP: You can just reply to the mail you received with a line containing" unsubscribe". (Notice the leading space). So no need to login.
<czajkowski> enrico: if you want file the bug and I'll follow up on it on MOnday if you like
<dobey> i don't agree with the ask before subscribing; i think the "you have been subscribed" mail should give you the option to say "this was a mistake" and should tell you who did it, so that if it is actually abuse, then it can be reported and dealt with, better
<enrico> Ampelbein: the mail I received saying "You have been subscribed to a public bug by â¦" does not contain instructions on how to unsubscribe
<Ampelbein> dobey: It should work like confirmed opt-in on mailing lists. If you are subscribed you get a mail "If you want to recieve updates click here - if not do nothing".
<dobey> Ampelbein: i don't think so. that is infinitely more work for when the subscription is not a mistake (most of the time)
<Ampelbein> dobey: Only for those bugs you are being subscribed to by others. Of course the bugs you yourself subscribe to should not send a confirmation.
<geser> would it be less "abuse" if LP 'spams' a person who doesn't want to be subscribed to any bug with those mails asking for confirmation?
<dobey> Ampelbein: i rarely subscribe myself to bugs; and that idea totally breaks for teams
<enrico> I reckon the current system works well for active Ubuntu developers, and fails miserably for people who are not. Fair enough, it's two completely different use cases. I would be quite satisfied with a checkbox in my personal settings that allows me to pick which of the two use cases I fit in
<Ampelbein> dobey: Teams are a different matter. But individuals should be able to say "I don't want to be subscribed to bugs unless I agree".
<dobey> Ampelbein: a setting that says "Send me confirmation, only if i have this box checked" is better than always sending confirmation, sure; the suggestion sort of implied the latter solution though
<nonix4> http 301 that loops to itself is bad, right? bazaar.launchpad.net does that sometimes for me - for example 'http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/gnome-disk-utility/master/view/head:/src/gdu/gdu-linux-md-drive.c?start_revid=930&file_id=src/gdu' does so.
<wgrant> enrico: All Launchpad bug notifications should have a link at the bottom to unsubscribe. "To manage notifications about this bug go to:"
<wgrant> I'm not sure how it's massively different to Ccing someone on a debbugs email, except that it's impossible to remove yourself in the debbugs case.
<enrico> wgrant: the diference is that it's not an accepted or welcome practice, in the Debtags instance of debbugs at least, to subscribe people to bugs without their consent.
<enrico> wgrant: and no, the bottom of that debtags mail had no link to unsubscribe
<enrico> wgrant: http://paste.debian.net/147118/ was the footer
<wgrant> enrico: Huh. Normally there's also this:
<wgrant> To manage notifications about this bug go to:
<wgrant> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/138545/+subscriptions
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 138545 in Launchpad itself "Option for project bug listing to include bugs in project's packages" [Low,Triaged]
 * wgrant hunts.
<enrico> wgrant: it wasn't in mine. I can forward you the full email if you'd like
<wgrant> enrico: That would be good, thanks. wgrant@canonical.com
<enrico> wgrant: done
<wgrant> enrico: Thanks.
<wgrant> enrico: Ah, the "You have been subscribed" notifications use a different template, to which the subscription link was never added.
<wgrant> Any other email from the bug should have it.
<wgrant> There's even an XXX saying the footer code is duplicated :(
<wgrant> Bug #896701
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 896701 in Launchpad itself "Footers generated by lp.bugs.mail.newbug don't include unsubscription link" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/896701
<george_e> OOPS-0d7e0dd50d2b83435032d05138724940
<ubot5> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=0d7e0dd50d2b83435032d05138724940
<george_e> Ran into a problem searching.
<george_e> Can anyone please look at the OOPS?
<wgrant> george_e: Let me see.
<george_e> Thank you.
<czajkowski> enrico: nicely spotted
<wgrant> george_e: Hmmm, it looks like we might have some DB issues affecting searches at the moment. Were you looking for https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus?
<george_e> Yes, thank you.
<exarkun> What is the expectation for https://code.launchpad.net/~gary/twisted/setuptoolsbug/+merge/7298 ?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 7298 in Ubuntu "pango's update of defoma is very noisy" [Low,Fix released]
#launchpad 2011-11-27
<broder> bah. is there any way to get a forgotten password notice from staging.lp.net?
<broder> actually, is the staging import working? i can't login with a known good password (i was trying to reset the password for a bot account)
<wgrant> broder: login.staging.launchpad.net is managed by ISD, and it's on a completely separate database from the rest of staging. I don't know what its restore schedule is like.
<broder> :-/
<nigelb> broder: The good news is you can ping people in #canonical-isd, the bad news is, they're probably away.
<broder> nigelb: ok, we'll see what happens
<nigelb> :)
<bfreis> Hello, I've found a bug on Oneiric's x64 cloud image (it simply doesn't work, it is completely broken). I'm trying to report it but https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug redirects me to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs
<bfreis> All I want is a text area to enter all the information I got (what the problem is, and how to solve it)
<bfreis> Can I have it?
<wgrant> bfreis: Read the page.
<wgrant> It tells you how to do it.
<wgrant> Ubuntu requested that people be forced to read the page first, because otherwise a lot of people file them improperly.
<bfreis> wgrant, that page tells me how to report a bug against an specific package. It will collect info about my system, etc. The problem here is something else: it is the CLOUD IMAGE that is buggy. There's absolutely nothing to do with my system. That "ubuntu-bug" thing will scan my system, etc, it is not the case here
<wgrant> bfreis: Scroll further down.
<wgrant> "Filing bugs at Launchpad.net"
<wgrant> It is deliberately difficult to find.
<bfreis> Damn
<bfreis> This is really stupid
<bfreis> I just lost about 8 hours tracking down a bug
<bfreis> Solving it
<bfreis> And now it is REALLY HARD to report it
<wgrant> Ubuntu had a huge problem with people filing bugs without sufficient information, so they requested that we redirect to that page. If you want to suggest improvements to it, you might want to try talking to #ubuntu-bugs.
<bfreis> wgrant, well, they certainly solved it the wrong way. I lost at least 1 hour *looking for the form*, being sent from channel to channel in IRC, and I can assure you I have lots of good information about this bug. Maybe they reduced the bad reports, but you can be sure that they are making people who can write good reports very, very disgusted.
<bfreis> I can imagine the amount of bad reports they were getting
<bfreis> But I still think it'd be better for them not to get helpful people disgusted by their system :/
<bfreis> They are certainly losing lots of good, important reports because of it.
<wgrant> Probably. #ubuntu-bugs is probably the best place to argue your case; Launchpad has nothing to do with that wiki page, apart from redirecting to it because Ubuntu said so :)
<bfreis> wgrant, well, thanks. I finally managed to report the bug (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/896772), then I went to #ubuntu-bugs to talk about the difficulty of reporting bugs, but people just ignored me. Damn, this is not how you deal with people who want to help!
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 896772 in Ubuntu "Oneiric's x64 cloud image [20111124] won't boot (wrong kernel, buggy /etc/fstab, buggy /etc/network/interfaces)" [Undecided,New]
<broder> bfreis: it's late night on a holiday weekend. your timing isn't really ideal. might have a better change of reaching people on monday
<bfreis> I'm sure if I call Amazon about a problem on AWS they will answer immediatly, and try to help and solve any problems... Bad timing is not an excuse. Oh, and note that I'm not the one asking for help, I'm the one who had trouble, who solved the problem and providing help here. It doesn't look very professional.
<sagaci> the majority of people in ubuntu-bugs are volunteers
<broder> bfreis: i think that's both unfair and inaccurate and i would hope that you know that. i don't know who is responsible for the cloud images or how to fix them, but i can tell you from experience that coming in with a bad attitude won't make the people in these chatrooms likely to help you
<wgrant> It's a weekend, so full-time developers won't be around. The Americas and Europe are hopefully asleep, and the US is on holiday, so volunteer community members are less likely to be around.
<wgrant> And sure, AWS will probably support you 24x7 if you pay them.
<wgrant> As will Canonical.
<broder> though even if you're paying them, you only get 24x7 support above their first 2 tiers of support, which are themselves on top of the fees for the services themselves
<broder> (amazon, that is, not canonical)
<bfreis> Well, all I have to say is: I'm a (non-paying) Canonical consumer, who tries to help (and puts lots of effort on it -- hours and hours fixing the problem that was blocking my work) and loses well over 1 hour trying to find a form to report a bug. It gets me extremelly disgusted, and then all I find is people defending the system. This is really not how Canonical should treat its consumers (specially those who, voluntarily, lost many hours just to help th
<bfreis> em).
<broder> but you're not talking to canonical representatives. you're talking to volunteers, who are here trying to improve the distribution they care about, but not interested in people who come in looking for a fight
<bfreis> broder, please, come on, take a look at my first message in this channel: I asked, as directly as possible, for a link with a form to report a bug. What I get? "Oh, you gotta read a huge, useless page, and then find a link which is purposely hidden". And this after hours of hard working. Wouldn't you be disgusted in my place?
<sagaci> well now you should know where to file a bug, correct?
<wgrant> I told you how to do it 2.5 minutes after you asked, too.
<wgrant> how disgusting :(
<bfreis> wgrant, yeah, you guided me through the huge wiki page, thanks. Just don't forget the 8 (?) hours solving the bug and the over 1 hour looking for that form before you helped me find it (which should be trivial to find).
<broder> bfreis: none of the people here can directly change the process that is causing you problems, so we're trying to do the next best thing by being informative. to have that responded to so negatively is discouraging
<bfreis> sagaci, sure! Now I know it. However, I sure that more people who would write good bug reports will simply drop it. I doubt everyone is as persistent as I have been.
<bfreis> broder, true. Who can change this process? Since the last thing that was causing me trouble was launchpad.net, I assumed here would be a good place to solve it.
<broder> bfreis: wgrant has told you that already. the people in #ubuntu-bugs are the best place to start, and we can't help you that they're not there, because it's late at night, on a weekend, during a holiday
<broder> but i'm going to head out now, because i was only in here because of another question, and only stuck around because i was trying to be helpful, and clearly you don't see me as being helpful
<bfreis> It is a pity Canonical treats us, people who try to help in one way or the other, like that.
<bfreis> @broder (if you ever see a log): I don't see you helpful at all, sorry.
<micahg> bfreis: IIRC, this was something decided at a community bug squad meeting, this isn't Canonical treating anyone in a certain way
<bfreis> interesting, it is the community making it hard for the community to report bugs
<micahg> anyways, Ubuntu bug procedures are off topic here, so let's move to #ubuntu-bugs
<Laibsch> OOPS-8bd384eebeb2268cbb39ffe1831abf8e
<ubot5> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=8bd384eebeb2268cbb39ffe1831abf8e
<Laibsch> launchpad is oopsing left and right recently.  It would be really nice if things became more stable.
<s0cialc0d3r> If there is a launchpad admin or canonical support rep here, I've been having a string of login issues for quite some months now, and I still can't log in. Is there anybody here who could help?
<lifeless> s0cialc0d3r: hi
<lifeless> s0cialc0d3r: what happens when you try, and whats your lp userid ?
<exarkun> What is the expectation for https://code.launchpad.net/~gary/twisted/setuptoolsbug/+merge/7298 ?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 7298 in Ubuntu "pango's update of defoma is very noisy" [Low,Fix released]
<lifeless> in what sense?
<lifeless> exarkun: I think its obsolete. Have commented to that effect.
<exarkun> lifeless: Thanks.  I hope that means it will disappear from https://code.launchpad.net/twisted/+activereviews soon.
<exarkun> On another subject entirely, how will I know when lp:twisted has been re-imported using a new version of bzr-svn?
<lifeless> exarkun: I think the answer to that depends on how you are arranging for the re-import ?
<exarkun> I heard third-hand that it would be re-imported so that it would be possible to dpush revisions from a branch of it into the upstream svn repository (which is not currently possible, or at least not currently easy).
<lifeless> so, one way to reimport is to delete the old branch and request a new import
<lifeless> another is to ask for the lp branch content to be deleted
<lifeless> a third is to reimport it yourself and ask for the lp branch content to be replaced
<lifeless> I'm not aware of any other routes; which one was selected? If you don't know, who might?
<exarkun> maybe jelmer or glyph
<lifeless> jelmer: ^ ?
<jelmer> hi exarkun, lifeless
<jelmer> glyph and I talked about this the other day
<jelmer> 1) is probably the simplest/q\uickest, but will mean people have to resubscribe if they are subscribed to the current branch
<jelmer> 2) is probably easier than 3), but both of those will require LOSA assistance
<jelmer> actually, it might be a good idea to get the svn cache removed on the code importers, just to be sure.
<exarkun> fwiw, there is apparently only one subscriber, and I think he can resubscribe without much difficulty.
<jelmer> hmm, I wished 'bzr info lp:twisted' would show me the Launchpad metadata (such as subscribers/VCS URL)
<jelmer> exarkun: in that case, let's see if we can get the svn cache for that SVN repo removed and then recreate the imports
<jelmer> exarkun: is this just for the twisted SVN repo (bbbe8e31-12d6-0310-92fd-ac37d47ddeeb), or others as well ?
<exarkun> The Twisted SVN repo is the only one that I'm interested in (as far as I know :)
<revoof> hi. i get "Rejected: Unable to find distroseries: oneric" when i try to upload files with dput. what could be wrong?
<mwhudson> revoof: it's spelt oneiric ? :)
<revoof> mwhudson: thanks. could have barely been more trivial ;)
<mwhudson> revoof: a downside of using such a funny word i guess
<mwhudson> at least 'precise' shouldn't have this problem...
<tumbleweed> you have great faith in peoples spelling ability
<exarkun> people's
<tumbleweed> :)
 * mwhudson starts campaining for quetzalcoatlish quagga
<mwhudson> and, sigh
<revoof> now my first package is uploaded: https://launchpad.net/~niklas-fiekas/+archive/ppa - but i am getting 404's when trying to apt-get update after adding the deb line. equally trivial?
<revoof> or must i upload a binary instead of the source package?
<wgrant> It's not published yet.
<mwhudson> revoof: it takes a while
<wgrant> Packages are only published to ppa.launchpad.net every 5 minutes.
<wgrant> And your binaries are still building, so there won't be anything there until they're done.
<wgrant> https://launchpad.net/~niklas-fiekas/+archive/ppa/+build/2957525
<s0cialc0d3r> lifeless: Apparently the canonical SSO open ids are messed up, and and they became unassociated
<s0cialc0d3r> lifeless: I can PM you details
<revoof> mwhudson, wgrant: thanks again. could have seen that: "1 package building"
<revoof> good night
#launchpad 2012-11-19
<simplew> glebihan: hi
<simplew> glebihan: do you how is possible to see the package version/release that was deleted in launchpad?
<didrocks> hey
<didrocks> czajkowski: I'm getting a lot of fail to upload recently on ~unity-team/staging ppa. Did anything change? The fail to upload seems to happen because there is another more recent version waiting to build. However, it's the case for a year now that we have this high rate of upload and I never noticed that it was failing to upload because of it before.
<mitya57> hi, can anybody please change lp:nose to point to lp:~mitya57/nose/trunk?
<mitya57> (upstream moved development from bitbucket to github, so the current branch is out-of-date).
<wgrant> didrocks: Nothing's changed there in several years
<didrocks> wgrant: ok, I'm a little bit confused by the fact the upload is rejected though. We do have another source waiting to build, but what happens if it fails? We could have a more recent version published
<wgrant> mitya57: Done, thanks for letting us know
<didrocks> wgrant: maybe I just start to notice because our uploader (after a local build) is faster nowdays
<mitya57> wgrant, thanks
<wgrant> didrocks: Superseded builds have their uploads rejected for ancient, complicated, and messy reasons. It isn't usually a problem because the time between uploads is almost always greater than the build time, except when someone uploads a quick fix, in which case you usually don't want to be publishing the old one anyway
<didrocks> wgrant: right, but for continous integration, every commit is published on a ppa, so the number of builds can be high. I'm just surprised I didn't turn into it that much until recently (and the development is lower than what it was)
<didrocks> but ok, if nothing changed in your side, that's all I wanted to ensure :)
<wgrant> Ah, so that's why our build queues are so huge :)
<wgrant> But yeah, nothing's changed on our end
<didrocks> wgrant: thanks! I think I'll just filter those emails
<wgrant> It's not ideal, but it's a bit difficult and probably not worth it right now to make LP cope
<wgrant> So filtering may indeed be best for now
<os_> hi
<os_> i am planing to make a dict dictionary
<os_> and i wonder if launchpad primt dictionary databases to be hosted
<os_> amy ideas pls ?
<czajkowski> os_: what do you mean?
<os_> i am planing to make a "dict" database
<os_> czajkowski: it is dictionary database
<czajkowski> ah
<os_> i want to host the database (it is not programming  project) in launchpad
<czajkowski> not sure let me go and ask
<czajkowski> wgrant: any ideas
<mapreri> I've just add a new gpg key to my launchpad account, and today was release the new CoC. I'm looking for resignin (also with the new key) the CoC, but at https://launchpad.net/~mapreri/+codesofconduct I don't find any links that allow this. So, what have I to do? Or what do you suggest to do?
<maxb> mapreri: The last CoC that I can see was released in 2005
<czajkowski> maxb: version 2.0 was release earlier on today
<czajkowski> https://launchpad.net/codeofconduct/2.0
<maxb> lp is lying to me then
<maxb> "The current version is 2.0, released 2005-04-12"
<mapreri> czajkowski: I've just see those page is outdated... http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2012/11/19/coc-version-2-0-has-been-released/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=coc-version-2-0-has-been-released
<mapreri> the last release was today
<czajkowski> sinzui: why does the CoC say latest version is 2.0 released 2005-04-12 ?
<czajkowski> was that when version 1 was released?
<sinzui> czajkowski, Lp does not really support CoC versioning
<sinzui> There might gs a hack, but since it is not in the db, Lp really does not know
 * sinzui looks for hack
<mapreri> sinzui: are you a lp developer?
<mapreri> czajkowski: in 2005-04-12 was released the 10.
<mapreri> 1.0.1 *
<sinzui> czajkowski, CodeOfConductConf can be changed to use the current data...changing invalidates all previous CoC signings
<sinzui> mapreri, I am a Lp developer
<mapreri> sinzui: imho make a sense invalidate all previous coc signings... but i think this is not a shared opinion :P
<sinzui> czajkowski, The choice are to invalidate everyone's signing, rewrite the code to avoid showing the dates in the UI, add a hack to the conf to have another date. Maybe there is a third option to implement agreements and checkboxes (no file signing)
<czajkowski> sinzui: would you like the CC to give you a definate answer
<czajkowski> I can't speak for sabdfl or the others on what way it would be done
<sinzui> czajkowski, This is a question and an implementation for the Ubuntu community...
<czajkowski> sinzui: which is the CC in this case to make the call
<czajkowski> let me go and talk to them
<sinzui> you are seeing dholbach changes
<czajkowski> yup
<czajkowski> that's what we;ve been working on for the last 6+ months
<bobweaver> Hello there I am trying to upload a package and I am not reciving any emails about a fail. But when I ran dput ppa:myppa/myrepo this.sources.changes . Everything uploaded. You can view the package and also the upload out put ect located here.
<bobweaver> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~josephjamesmills/ubuntutv/mockup-ppa-branch/files/head:/Unity-2d/
<bigjools> did you sign the upload?
<bigjools> https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+faq/227
<bobweaver> with gpg ?
<bobweaver> Oo at faq page thansk
<bobweaver> No I def have uploaded and signed key to Ubuntu server
<bobweaver> I will try on this computer that is also signed and sent to Ubuntu server
<bigjools> you may have another problem in the package that causes the upload processing software to crash, in which case you need someone to look at the logs
<wgrant> That key is not on the keyserver
<bobweaver> Oo
<wgrant> You have 6 gpg keys associated with your Launchpad account (probably a little excessive), but the one you used to sign that .changes file is not one of them
<bobweaver> er thanks wgrant  yeah one or two where for virtual and one or two are on partitions that I use not so often . Thanks for looking into that.
 * bobweaver feels silly 
<wgrant> You'd generally only have one key active at a time
<bobweaver> Oh I see what you are saying you can do that on your account
<bobweaver> thanks wgrant
#launchpad 2012-11-20
<l3iggs> hi all. I'm trying to upload to my newly created ppa
<l3iggs> so I issue the following command:
<l3iggs> $ dput ppa:l3iggs/ppa btrfs-tools_0.20-rc1-1ubuntu1_source.changes
<l3iggs> Checking signature on .changes
<l3iggs> gpg: Signature made Mon 19 Nov 2012 04:38:22 PM PST using RSA key ID BF8AD303
<l3iggs> gpg: Good signature from "l3iggs <l3@0x3.ca>"
<l3iggs> Good signature on /home/greyson/src/btrfs-progs/btrfs-tools_0.20-rc1-1ubuntu1_source.changes.
<l3iggs> Checking signature on .dsc
<l3iggs> gpg: Signature made Mon 19 Nov 2012 04:38:22 PM PST using RSA key ID BF8AD303
<l3iggs> gpg: Good signature from "l3iggs <l3@0x3.ca>"
<l3iggs> Good signature on /home/greyson/src/btrfs-progs/btrfs-tools_0.20-rc1-1ubuntu1.dsc.
<l3iggs> Uploading to ppa (via ftp to ppa.launchpad.net):
<l3iggs>   Uploading btrfs-tools_0.20-rc1-1ubuntu1.dsc: done.
<l3iggs>   Uploading btrfs-tools_0.20-rc1-1ubuntu1.debian.tar.gz: done.
<l3iggs>   Uploading btrfs-tools_0.20-rc1-1ubuntu1_source.changes: done.
<l3iggs> Successfully uploaded packages.
<l3iggs> everything looks great
<bigjools> l3iggs: please use pastebin.ubuntu.com
<bigjools> instead of pasting here
<l3iggs> until i get an email that says: Rejected:
<l3iggs> Unable to find btrfs-tools_0.20-rc1.orig.tar.gz in upload or distribution.
<l3iggs> Files specified in DSC are broken or missing, skipping package unpack verification.
<l3iggs> sorry, i though this might be short enough
<l3iggs> i'm done
<bigjools> ok
<bigjools> it's looking for the orig tarball you built your source with
<bigjools> and unable to do so
<bigjools> so you need to include it in the build
<l3iggs> why can't it find it? the dput command clearly shows that it goes through
<bigjools> no it doesn't :)
<l3iggs> ohoh
<l3iggs> :-)
<l3iggs> no it doesn;t
<l3iggs> i build the source with $ debuild -S -kl3@0x3.ca
<l3iggs> can you advise me on how to change that so the source tarball is included?
<wgrant> l3iggs: -sa
<bigjools> what he said
<wgrant> -sa tells debuild to always include the orig tarball
<l3iggs> great, thank you!
<james_w> -sa
<james_w> debuild -S -kl3@0x3.ca -sa
* wgrant changed the topic of #launchpad to: Help contact: - | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
* czajkowski changed the topic of #launchpad to: Help contact: czajkowski | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
* czajkowski changed the topic of #launchpad to: Help contact:- | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<tumbleweed> erm, something wrong with codehosting?
 * ScottK was about to ask the same.
<ScottK> czajkowski: ^^^?
<ScottK> bzr: ERROR: Connection closed: Unexpected end of message. Please check connectivity and permissions, and report a bug if problems persist.
<czajkowski> lemie go and poke
<diogobaeder> Hi guys, are we having some kind of maintenance that might affect LP users permissions? https://pastebin.canonical.com/78780/
<czajkowski> diogobaeder: just looking into it
<diogobaeder> czajkowski, nice, thanks :-)
<czajkowski> tumbleweed: ScottK diogobaeder shall be back shortly
<ScottK> czajkowski: Thanks.
<diogobaeder> czajkowski, awesome, thanks for the heads up :-)
<ScottK> Yes.  It's back.
<slank> 34
#launchpad 2012-11-21
<karni> Is there a way to search mail archive on launchpad?
<gmb> Does anyone remember how to prevent a branch from being directly committed to in LP (i.e. I only want to allow merges)? I know wgrant told me once...
<mgz> gmb: you make it owned by a specific person and pipe all landings through them
<mgz> that's often an auto-landing bot as per pqm and tarmac
<mgz> eg, lp:bzr is really lp:~bzr-pqm/bzr/bzr.dev
<gmb> mgz: That's one way, but ISTR that there was some sftp-some-bzr-settings-file-into-lp dance that one could do.
<gmb> But your suggestion is easier to remember and easier to execute.
<mgz> there's append_revisions_only which you can set on the branch to stop people pushing and rearranging the graph
<mgz> but that doesn't stop normal pushes
<gmb> Ah, right.
<gmb> mgz:  Screw it, then, I'll do your thing :)
<wgrant> gmb: what mgz said
<gmb> Righto.
<diogobaeder> Hi guys, LP stopped processing source diff in one of my merge proposals: https://code.launchpad.net/~diogobaeder/ubuntuone-amqp/update-sourcedeps/+merge/135418
<diogobaeder> Any ideas?
<czajkowski> sinzui: any idea
<sinzui> cursed branch maybe
<diogobaeder> So... what should I do to bless it again? :D
<sinzui> diogobaeder, I will ask the web ops to unscan you branch to see if that addresses the issue
<diogobaeder> sinzui, thanks
<sinzui> diogobaeder, did you uncommit in that branch or are you using pipes?
<diogobaeder> sinzui, neither. It's a 1-commit-only branch, just committed, pushed, proposed, and that's all. I don't use the pipeline plugin.
<sinzui> :/
<diogobaeder> sinzui, it's back, diff is there :-)
<sinzui> oh, we didn't compete the unscan. so it was just slow
<jo-erlend> Is it possible to setup a general welcome message that is sent by email when people are accepted into a project/team? We have a project for our Norwegian LoCo. I'd like everyone who is accepted to receive a welcome message containing links to all our stuff, such as our loco-u-c page, wiki, etc.
<czajkowski> jo-erlend: no just add the information to the team description
<jo-erlend> czajkowski, ok. Thanks.
<jamesf> hi - I'm looking for assistance.  I can't access my launchpad account (~jamesf).  I recently left Canonical, but before I did I changed my associated email address to be my personal email address.  Now I can't log in using that address and my old password, and if I try to recover the password for my new email address it says it has no record of that address...  (even though I'm getting bugmail on it)
<czajkowski> jamesf: you'll need to ask in #canonical-isd on freenode sounds like the SS / 2fa issue we get from people leaving
<jamesf> czajkowski: thanks
<ScottK> How do I remove a branch from lp?  I typo'ed when I pushed the first time, so I've got a misnamed one that needs to go?
<mgz> ScottK: there's a delete option on the branch's webpage
<czajkowski> what mgz said
<ScottK> Thanks
<czajkowski> but there will always be a reference to it
<ScottK> Way to easy.
<ScottK> That's not a problem.  I see it's gone from the U/I, so people won't be confused.
<czajkowski> grand job
<czajkowski> see lP can be easy :)
<ScottK> Well, my opinion of the U/I has improved now that it's not changing every few months.
 * ScottK actually has time to get adjusted to it.
<SpamapS> Hi, I'm trying to use the django python openid auth module to provide access for only certain launchpad teams to a django app...
<SpamapS> I get sent to login.launchpad.net, but the redirect back to my app results in an 'Unknown User' error.. even though the user is created in the db (as per OPENID_CREATE_USERS)
<SpamapS> anybody have experience with using the team extension and django openid in general can maybe take a look at what I'm trying to do at lp:~clint-fewbar/+junk/team-content
<SpamapS> aha! was missing AUTHENTICATION_BACKENDS
<mspencer> Hi, where can I get icons for Bazaar, Translations, and Bugs? I need them for a program I'm working on in Ubuntu.
<mspencer> Here's the spec for what I'm working on: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributorConsole
<czajkowski> mspencer: cant you just taken them off their sites http://bazaar.canonical.com/en/
<czajkowski> cant really see an icon for translations https://translations.launchpad.net/
<mspencer> czajkowski: that helps with the bazaar icon.
#launchpad 2012-11-22
<czajkowski> mspencer: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~launchpad-pqm/launchpad/devel/view/head:/LICENSE second paragraph
<czajkowski> LP icons are propoetary and only used for development and test usage
<mspencer> czajkowski: Thanks, i didn't know that.
<doko> spam at https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/478071
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 478071 in system-config-printer (Ubuntu) "applet.py crashed with SIGSEGV in PyDict_SetItem()" [Medium,Invalid]
<xnox> http://www.cmake.org/Bug/bug_relationship_graph.php?bug_id=13691&graph=relation
<xnox> trying to add as a bug watch and I get
<xnox> Launchpad does not recognize the bug tracker at this URL.
<xnox> anybody knows correct url's for mantis style bug reports?
<czajkowski> wgrant: any ideas?
<xnox> czajkowski: wgrant: this worked http://www.cmake.org/Bug/view.php?id=13691
<xnox> \0/
<xnox> after using launchpad, all other bug trackers suck....
<mgz> to be fair, mantis always sucked
<xnox> mgz: czajkowski: wgrant: thanks to launchpad bug dupe search it just found a fix for a bug in unity because of a similar problem & fix in maya project =)))) and reported to cmake upstream as a regression ;-)
<mgz> wow.
<mgz> that's like, how this stuff is meant to work.
<xnox> =)))))
<ScottK> If LP down?
<ScottK> If/Is
<ScottK> I can't seem to connect to several different pages at the moment.
<bigjools> working for me
 * ScottK tries again
#launchpad 2012-11-23
<ScottK> No luck with two different browsers.
<bigjools> what page?
<ScottK> Working now.
<bigjools> ah the heisentimeout :)
<ScottK> Yeah
<lifeless> ScottK: next time get a tcpping to port 443
<lifeless> or a tcppath
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> How is tcpping different than ping?
<lifeless> TCP probe vs ICMP
<lifeless> specifically you want
<lifeless> sudo tcptraceroute launchpad.net -p 443
<czajkowski> morning
<vibhav> DOes anybody know how @ubuntu.com email ddresses are created?
<vibhav> Does*
<czajkowski> vibhav: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuEmail
<vibhav> thanks czajkowski!
<tsimpson> it's your <lp username>@ubuntu.com, it forwards to whatever you chose as your primary email address in your lp account
<tsimpson> so don't, whatever you do, set the @ubuntu.com address as your primary email in lp ;)
<lifeless> wcpgw
<Geochr> Hi all, i have report a bug, but i don't see any action on it. The bug is the following :
<Geochr> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/975970
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 975970 in Launchpad itself "Messages reviewed in translator mode if you don't check manually "Someone should review this translation"" [Low,Triaged]
<Geochr> Is the bug reported on correct project ?
<Geochr> Is the bug reported on correct project ?
<apw> hi i am trying to add a further task to a bug (bug #1075181) as it also affects linux-meta-lts-quantal, it allows me to add a raring task, but the precise task does not appear and there is no way to target it to P (as it already is) ...
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1075181 in linux-meta-lts-quantal (Ubuntu) "Backport UEFI Secure Boot support for Ubuntu 12.04.2" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1075181
<apw> anyone any idea how one asks for this in the interface?  or if its just broken
<xnox> if precise task was there at one point, and was deleted with the minus, there is no way to get it back again.
<xnox> if I remember correctly, there was a bug about it somewhere...
<apw> xnox, this new task has never had one, other tasks do have them
<apw> this package task does not have one and has never existed for this package before, other package tasks have precise tasks on the same bug (to be clearer)
<mgz> ...does something called linux-meta-lts-quantal actually make sense to target at precise?
<apw> mgz, yep, its an lts-quantal backport
<mgz> the project is weird, at any rate, which is likely the problem
<mgz> you need someone with ubuntu superpowers on launchpad to work out what's up.
<czajkowski> we're minus a sinuzi today due to USA hols
<TheLordOfTime> you mean administrator godpowers :P
<TheLordOfTime> :P
<czajkowski> apw: have you asked cjwatson
<apw> czajkowski, indeed, he has no input on it
<czajkowski> just wondering if he was able to and you're not.
<czajkowski> jcsackett: ping
<xnox> apw: the package only exists in precise, so why are multiple bug tasks needed? Are the sru reports not picking it up otherwise?
<apw> xnox, to be consistent with the other 20 packages on the bug where that is not true
<mspencer> Hi, I've created a new project in launchpad which will be based on a specification on wiki.ubuntu.com. Should I set myself as the bug supervisor? I'm new to launchpad.
#launchpad 2012-11-24
<mspencer> Hi, I've created a new project in launchpad which will be based on a specification on wiki.ubuntu.com. Should I set myself as the bug supervisor? I'm new to launchpad.
<ebergen> who else would be the bug supervisor?
<mspencer> ebergen: In the configure bugtracker page, the bug supervisor is listed as optional.
<ebergen> ok
<ebergen> then maybe don't worry about it
<mspencer> ebergen: What are the benefits of doing so?
<ebergen> probably if someone else other than the project owner will manager bugs
<mspencer> ebergen: According to https://help.launchpad.net/Bugs/YourProject, "You may want to give some people extra bug editing privileges: The bug supervisor's role is to manage the planning of bug work and the triage of newly reported bugs. "
<ebergen> makes sense
<mspencer> ebergen: I plan to work on as many bugs as I can handle, so should I set this to myself or leave it blank?
<ebergen> if you are the project owner just leave it blank
<mspencer> ebergen: Okay, thanks.
<mspencer> Can I directly upload code to a launchpad project? I'm using quickly but it won't let me use the share command telling me something about configuring a PPA.
<ebergen> did you configure a PPA?
<ebergen> I don't know what quickly is
<ebergen> I just bazaar
<mspencer> ebergen: No, I have not.
<mspencer> ebergen: I've tried asking in the quickly channel but haven't gotten an answer, so I thought trying here might work. I'll ask again there later.
<mspencer> ebergen: So is it possible to upload code directly to a launchpad project versus to a PPA first and then linking it to the project?
<mspencer> ebergen: https://launchpad.net/contributor-console/trunk/+setbranch says "You can push the branch directly to Launchpad with the command: bzr push lp:~mdspencer/contributor-console/trunk"
<mspencer> ebergen: Does this mean that I'm just doing something wrong with the program I use to upload my project?
<mspencer> ebergen: 'the program' meaning quickly.
<ebergen> I have no idea what quickly is or how to use it
<ebergen> I use bazaar which provides the command bzr to push directly to launchpad
<wgrant> mspencer: Branches store source code, PPAs store installable Ubuntu packages
<wgrant> Branches are associated with a project, but PPAs aren't directly.
<mspencer> My question doesn't matter on what quickly is, I'm just wondering if I can directly load code to the project. I'm new to launchpad and not very familiar with how it works.
<wgrant> Well, it depends what quickly means
<wgrant> PPAs and branches are for separate things, and it sounds like quickly might conceal the real terms
<mspencer> wgrant: quickly is a tool for creating programs and allows changes to be saved to bazaar and launchpad.
<wgrant> I suspect that "quickly share" wants to upload to a PPA, which means you'll need to create a PPA (probably at https://launchpad.net/~/+activate-ppa, if it's just you working on the project for now)
<wgrant> I know
<wgrant> I know what it is, but I've never used it so I don't know its terminology well
<mspencer> wgrant: Yes, that is the command I'm trying to use  and that is what it wants to do.
<wgrant> Right
<wgrant> Personal Package Archives are, as the name suggests, personal -- they're not directly affiliated with a project.
<wgrant> You'll need to create one, or have it do it for you
<wgrant> Projects don't come with one
<mspencer> wgrant: I'm not very familiar with projects, so I don't need to use a PPA except when using quickly? I can just use 'bzr push' to upload directly to my project?
<wgrant> mspencer: "bzr push" is used to upload your code to a branch on Launchpad. "quickly share" builds your code into an Ubuntu package and uploads it to a PPA, where users can easily install it.
<wgrant> PPAs are most frequently used without quickly
<wgrant> quickly just provides a sometimes convenient shortcut to build and upload packages to them
<mspencer> wgrant: I meant for me, I only need to use a PPA when I use quickly? Otherwise I can just use 'bzr push' to upload directly to my project?
<mspencer> wgrant: I understand that a PPA can be used without using quickly.
<wgrant> You only want to use a PPA when you want to make your project apt-get'able.
<wgrant> You can use quickly without using 'quickly share'
<wgrant> The point of 'quickly share' is to upload it to a PPA so users can easily install it
<wgrant> You don't need to use a PPA with quickly unless you actually want to use a PPA
<wgrant> Normally when you're developing you'd just bzr push
<mspencer> wgrant: Okay, that helps me understand PPAs better, thanks!
<wgrant> I'm not sure if quickly has a shortcut for that
<wgrant> But yeah, PPAs are generally for distribution to end-users.
<mspencer> And that answers my main question of how to upload code, thank you guys so much for all your help!
<mspencer> One more question, how often should I load code to my project? Is it okay to upload code that is in progress or should I wait until everything works?
<wgrant> Different projects have different branch policies. Many decide that the trunk branch on Launchpad should always contain finished, stable, releasable code; in that case developers usually develop features or fixes on a separate branch, then merge them into trunk when they're done. Others, particularly small, immature projects, don't care too much about trunk stability, and develop incomplete features straight on trunk.
<wgrant> The latter tends to be common on young projects, as there's no real need to keep trunk stable
<wgrant> And not much point if it's all under heavy development anyway
<wgrant> But in the end it doesn't really matter; you can do whatever works for your project's development strategy.
<mspencer> wgrant: Mine is new, so should I upload right away and then upload in-progress work for a while until it's ready for general use then only complete code?
<mspencer> wgrant: I realize than there is no definite rule, I'm just looking for good advise.
<wgrant> mspencer: Sounds reasonable. When you're working on the early stages of a project you usually end up touching code all over the place, and there might not be a logical way to break it up into separate, stable iterations.
<mspencer> wgrant: Thanks!
<wgrant> But for a large project like Launchpad, we only ever land finished work to trunk. We ensure that trunk always passes tests, and unless something goes wrong we can deploy any revision of trunk to production at any time without a problem.
<wgrant> So all developers work in branches dedicate to a particular feature or bugfix, push them up to Launchpad, and propose them for merging into trunk. One of the other developers reviews the changes, and if they approve then the change can land to trunk in one piece.
<wgrant> But that's because Launchpad has a lot of developers, is a very large codebase, and we deploy once or twice a day so it must *always* be stable
<wgrant> You probably have none of those constraints, so a different process will suit you better :)
<mspencer> wgrant: Considering this is a small project with only me so far, I don't think I have any of those constraints :)
<mspencer> I've ran the command suggested on my project's page when no code was found in it: " You can push the branch directly to Launchpad with the command: bzr push lp:~mdspencer/contributor-console/trunk" but it isn't showing up in my project. Do I still need to link it to the project?
<wgrant> mspencer: You'll see it if you click the "Code" tab, where you'll also see a suggestion that you might want to set it as your project's trunk branch
<mspencer> wgrant: I checked the code tab, do you mean "A development focus branch hasn't been specified, set it now."?
<wgrant> Yeah
<mspencer> wgrant: Do I need to do this every time I upload code?
<mspencer> wgrant: Do I type it with or without the 'lp:' part?
<wgrant> mspencer: Just the first time you set up a new project
<wgrant> I think both should work, but without the lp: will certainly work
<mspencer> wgrant: Okay. So I can continue pushing to my branch because it's linked, not copied?
<wgrant> mspencer: Right. All branches have a "lp:~user/project/branch" name, but as the project owner you can define a branch as having the alias "lp:project" -- the main trunk branch for the project. It still exists under the old name, and there's still only one branch, but it has that shortcut as an additional alias.
<wgrant> You'll see that the branch is now shown on the web as "lp:contributor-console"
<mspencer> wgrant: That makes sense because when I mouse over the links it still shows up as my branch.
<wgrant> And I can just say "bzr branch lp:contributor-console" without having to worry about the branch's full name
<wgrant> Yep
<mspencer> wgrant: Yes, I notice that that shows up.
<mspencer> wgrant: Thanks for you help!
<wgrant> np
<mspencer> Should I set myself as the project's driver and/or bug supervisor? I asked before about bug supervisor and was told that there was no need, but it doesn't seem right seeing 'None set'.
<mspencer> Also, I'm writing my program based off of a specification. Should I create a blueprint based on that spec?
<thopiekar> hi, is there a way only to import tagged git commits?
<thopiekar> I also found out that tags are not correctly imported.. see https://github.com/kivy/kivy/tags and http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kivy-team/kivy/master/files the last 2 tags (1.4.0 and 1.4.1) have not been imported according to the web UI..
<mspencer> I've created a new project in launchpad that will be based off an specification at wiki.ubuntu.com. Should I set myself as the project's driver and/or bug supervisor? I asked before about bug supervisor and was told that there was no need, but it doesn't seem right seeing 'None set'.
<mspencer> I've created a new project in launchpad that will be based off an specification at wiki.ubuntu.com. Should I set myself as the project's driver and/or bug supervisor? I asked before about bug supervisor and was told that there was no need, but it doesn't seem right seeing 'None set'.
<ebergen> you must be joking
<mspencer> ebergen: I'm also asking about project driver.
<ebergen> I know
<ebergen> because it's the same question from yesterday
<ebergen> why don't you try using the project for while then make adjustments as needed
<mspencer> I just don't understand why there is any reason to leave either blank. I'm new to this and don't understand launchpad very well.
<ebergen> fine then
<ebergen> don't leave it blank
<ebergen> put your name there
<mspencer> But why is there a reason to leave it blank?
<ebergen> because you already own the project
<ebergen> you already have all the privileges
<mspencer> ebergen: That makes sense, then why doesn't it say that it is defaulting to the project owner?
<ebergen> I don't know
<mspencer> ebergen: Thanks for your help, I'll leave it blank
<mspencer> Sorry for asking again, I just didn't understand why it would be left blank.
<mspencer> How do I get other people to help on the project? I'd like someone else to create the icons since I'm not good at it.
<ebergen> what project is this?
<mspencer> ebergen: https://launchpad.net/contributor-console, based off of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributorConsole
<mspencer> ebergen: Also, I will probably want someone else to code a part of it that I'm not familiar with.
<ebergen> it either has to be an interesting project or you have to pay
<mspencer> ebergen: when I asked the author of the spec if this was something a beginner could handle, he say I could work on as much as I could do and others could help on the rest. Should I try asking on one of the ubuntu development channels for advice on how to get help?
#launchpad 2012-11-25
<ActionParsnip> https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/+question/215168
<ActionParsnip> https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/+question/215169
<ActionParsnip> Can you please address this
<IdleOne> ActionParsnip: Did you report those two links in here?
<ActionParsnip> yes, idleone. Yo yo yo :D
<IdleOne> cook :)
<IdleOne> cool also
<ActionParsnip> old school
<ActionParsnip> Can he be contacted please, something needs to happen
<IdleOne> I'm sure someone will get to it soonish
<susahsebut> hi
<susahsebut> anybody here?
#launchpad 2013-11-18
<rootB> is this
<rootB> the MSP430 llaunchpad
<rootB> chatroom?
<lifeless> no
<lifeless> see /topic
<cjwatson> maxb: The epoch isn't in the filename because colons in filenames cause some tools to misbehave unless you take great care.
<cjwatson> (e.g. the bit before the colon is often interpreted as a host name)
<AlanBell> hi, is there API access to launchpad mailing lists?
 * apw is getting "Sorry, there was a problem connecting to the Launchpad server." reports, which seems to be coming from in the middle of launchpad, not the normal oopsen, is she ailing?
<czajkowski> apw: best to ask webops none of the lp admins will be up at this hour
<apw> ok
#launchpad 2013-11-19
<stokachu> has there been any discussion on porting launchpadlib to python3?
<wgrant> stokachu: It's mostly awkward because the lazr.restfulclient tests depend on bits of Zope that aren't yet quite ported.
<stokachu> ah ok
<mgedmin> question about linking launchpad bugs with upstream bugs:
<mgedmin> why must I specify a "project" (what even is a project)?  why can't I just paste the URL to the upstream bug and have Launchpad figure out everything else automatically?
<mgedmin> e.g. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/postgrey/+bug/981789
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 981789 in postgrey (Ubuntu) "Postgrey does not stop" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<mgedmin> I gave up trying to link things because it asked me for a project, and 'postgrey' is apparently not a project
<mgedmin> also 'debian' doesn't appear to be a project either
<wgrant> Debian's a distribution
<wgrant> You'd need to register a placeholder project for postgrey in order to create a second task referencing the upstream bug.
<mgedmin> that's actually a good point
<mgedmin> thanks
<wgrant> If you mention the upstream bug URL in a comment, Launchpad will link to it and track its status in the sidebar, but it's not possible to add another row to the task table without having the project or distribution registered in Launchpad.
<mgedmin> oh, cool!
<wgrant> The Debian task has synced now, I see.
<mgedmin> linking/status tracking is the important part; I just didn't know Launchpad could do that without displaying a row in the task table
<mgedmin> I added the Debian task when you told me it was a distro and not a project :)
<facundobatista> hi all!
<dobey> hi facundobatista
<facundobatista> hola dobey :)
<dobey> que paso? :)
<facundobatista> dobey, I'm sending mails to a LP private mail list, nobody is receiving it and I'm not seeing it in the list archive... however I still not sure if this is the proper place to ask :)
<dobey> facundobatista: is it a new list?
<dobey> i don't know if anyone is around that could help with that. it might be best to ping a webops person
<facundobatista> dobey, thanks
<linuxtech> The DPL talked about a how-can-i-help package at http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2013/11/msg00000.html and it uses a Debian bug tag gift, and stores the data in a little json file, to ask for help with particular packages.  Does Ubuntu and Launchpad have an appropriate tag that could be used for something similar in Ubuntu?  Does something like it already exist in Ubuntu?
#launchpad 2013-11-20
<joce> hi
<joce> I've an issue with a launchpad mailinglist. I'm a member of the mailing, but my email sent never reach the list. Any idea ?
<wgrant> joce: Are you sure you sent it from an address associated with your Launchpad account?
<joce> wgrant : damn, just understand what's wrong. My email client is configured to send from @googlemail.com, and my launchpad account have the @gmail.com addressâ¦
<wgrant> joce: You can add the @googlemail.com address as well, or just send from the other one :)
<joce> yup, I will update my launchpad account :)
<cjwatson> linuxtech: There's a "bitesize" tag used in various places, which is similar.
<alesage> hi, I'm doing some bug investigation with the launchpadapi in Python--quick q: are there field length limits?  e.g. for the bug title, I'm finding some very long apport-reported ones
<alesage> and where can I learn about such :)
<dobey> alesage: i don't think there is a reasonable limit on the lenght of summary or description, no
<alesage> dobey thanks that helps
<dobey> alesage: the limit is probably the length limit of the type in postgres. i think it might be a UNICODE or something, not sure what the limit is for that. surely > 255 though
<alesage> dobey right so it appears
#launchpad 2013-11-21
<PaoloRotolo> Hi all!
<PaoloRotolo> I've a problem with my recipe
<PaoloRotolo> everything worked fine until yesterday. The problem is that I havan't changed anything in /debian.
<PaoloRotolo> So I don't know what happened...
<PaoloRotolo> My build fails only on Trusty (all work with Precise, Quantal and Saucy)
<PaoloRotolo> This is the build log: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/157045444/buildlog.txt.gz
<PaoloRotolo> The specific error is "dpkg-source: error: can't build with source format '3.0 (native)': native package version may not have a revision"
<Ampelbein> PaoloRotolo: The dpkg-source version in trusty doesn't accept "wrong" versioning for native packages anymore, see debian bug 700177
<ubot5> Debian bug 700177 in dpkg-dev "dpkg-dev: please reject native/non-native version when building native/non-native source packages" [Wishlist,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/700177
<PaoloRotolo> Ampelbein, thanks! The format of my package is 3.0 (quilt), I don't know why Launchpad build it with '3.0 (native)'...
<PaoloRotolo> Anyway, what is the difference?
<Ampelbein> PaoloRotolo: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianMentorsFaq#What_is_the_difference_between_a_native_Debian_package_and_a_non-native_package.3F
<cjwatson> Launchpad is building it that way because there's no pristine-tar information in your branch so it doesn't know how to reconstruct an .orig.tar.gz
<cjwatson> Which was probably always an issue but it was masked by dpkg-source being tolerant
<PaoloRotolo> Ampelbein, cjwatson, thanks! So, the fix is upload an .orig.tar.gz in my branch?
<cjwatson> Well, pristine-tar information for one
<cjwatson> bzr merge-upstream does that, I think, but I don't have information on how to push one otherwise
<PaoloRotolo> cjwatson, thanks a lot!
<PaoloRotolo> cjwatson, so, how can I integrate pristine-tar to Launchpad's recipes?
<cjwatson> I can't help any more than this I'm afraid; I just thought that giving you some more keywords to search on might be helpful
<PaoloRotolo> I only  found how to use it locally...
<cjwatson> It's not a recipe-specific thing though; you should be able to reproduce it with bzr bd or bzr-builder or something like that locally if you don't have the .orig.tar.gz in the parent directory
<cjwatson> but I should concentrate on this meeting ...
<PaoloRotolo> Thanks anyway :)
<Noskcaj> Can someone please make https://launchpad.net/~noskcaj/+archive/build/+sourcepub/3674799/+listing-archive-extra build on armhf and arm64?
<wgrant> Noskcaj: There is no arm64 support for PPAs yet. Why do you want armhf support?
#launchpad 2013-11-22
<codygarver> hey guys, I'm getting this error on a few trusty builds. Anyone know what's up? "dpkg-source: error: can't build with source format '3.0 (native)': native package version may not have a revision" https://launchpadlibrarian.net/157057722/buildlog.txt.gz
<dobey> codygarver: fix your debian/source/format file, or your version string. you are using an invalid version string in debian/changelog for the native format
<codygarver> dobey, are you sure? It used to build and still builds for saucy and precise. Nothing has changed and it was working for Trusty until a few days ago https://code.launchpad.net/~elementary-os/+recipe/granite-daily
<codygarver> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~elementary-os/granite/deb-packaging/view/head:/debian/changelog and the format is not native http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~elementary-os/granite/deb-packaging/view/head:/debian/source/format
<StevenK> codygarver: Nothing has changed except trusty itself, it's the new dpkg in trusty.
<StevenK> Ah, a recipe. bzr-builder will override the format to 3.0 (native) if you don't have pristine-tar information.
<codygarver> StevenK, so the version string is the problem?
<StevenK> codygarver: You have a solution, which is to use pristine-tar with your orig tarball which will stop bzr-builder overriding the format to 3.0 (native). A workaround is to drop the - from the version string.
<codygarver> StevenK, how can I provie a pristine-tar with a recipe build? It's also happening with this recipe that's changelog doesn't contain a - https://code.launchpad.net/~elementary-os/+recipe/noise-daily
<codygarver> provide a pristine-tar*
<StevenK> codygarver: A version of 0.2.4 should be 3.0 (native), not 3.0 (quilt)
<StevenK> And that is what is the error is trying to point out.
<codygarver> ok so that one is not liking that it was expecting patches and didn't find them, got it
<StevenK> No, it is purely a comparsion of the version, files and format. 3.0 (quilt) is for non-native packages, ie: 1.0-1; 0.2.4 is a native version
<codygarver> StevenK, oh ok, thanks a lot!
<codygarver> StevenK, but what about this one https://code.launchpad.net/~elementary-os/+recipe/noise-daily it is not a native version and is quilt with patches?
<StevenK> noise-daily is the native version
<StevenK> 0.2.4 is a native version
<codygarver> StevenK, oh it's complaining about the - in the recipe header?
<codygarver> {debversion}+r{revno}-0+pkg{revno:packaging}
<StevenK> Oh, yeah, exactly.
<dobey> codygarver: you need to change the version in debian/changelog in the packaging branches to be 0.2.4-0elementary1 or something
<StevenK> Sorry, I was comparing the version in debian/changelog, which the recipe machinery doesn't use.
<codygarver> now it really all makes sense, thanks dobey and StevenK
<StevenK> dobey: Still contains a -
<StevenK> Try again? :-P
<dobey> StevenK: yes, it should be fine as long as debian/changelog has the thing. dpkg is looking at what's already in debian/changelog
<StevenK> bzr-builder adds an entry first, no?
<StevenK> So fix the recipe text and retry
<dobey> hrmm
<dobey> StevenK: then it shouldn't matter, since source/format has 3.0 (quilt)
<dobey> but having the - in debian/changelog apparently doesn't fix it either
<StevenK> dobey: But bzr-builder overrides the format to 3.0 (native) with no pristine-tar information, which I said earlier.
<codygarver> I have modified the recipe versioning and requested a build, so we'll see in a few minutes
<StevenK> codygarver: If it's not already building, link it to me and I'll make it build.
<codygarver> stgraber, I used a recipe that's not in a somewhat-production environment yet https://code.launchpad.net/~codygarver/+recipe/midori-elementary-daily
<codygarver> StevenK, ^
<dobey> then i guess bzr-builder needs fixing
<StevenK> Or use pristine-tar, and it won't override.
<StevenK> It wants to make the exact same orig from just bzr history, it needs something more.
<dobey> what does it even mean to provide pristine-tar in a source recipe?
<StevenK> dobey: pristine-tar takes an orig tarball and the repoistory information and creates a diff and commits it. Then you can always reconstruct the *exact same* orig using only bzr history
<StevenK> dobey: 'man pristine-tar' ?
<dobey> that doesn't actually tell me anything. nor does it work for sources that have never actually made a tarball release, and seems like it would be unusable for git imports
<StevenK> dobey: Sorry for not explaining it well -- the DESCRIPTION in the pristine-tar manual page should help, then.
<dobey> doesn't really help either. it tells me it is not a usable solution, though.
<wgrant> dobey: Sources that have never made a tarball release have to be native.
<wgrant> Because non-native implies release tarball.
<dobey> native implies the package information is part of the source tree; it doesn't necessarily imply tarball
<StevenK> native also implies a format and version
<codygarver> it looks like removing the - from the recipe version resolved the issue https://code.launchpad.net/~codygarver/+recipe/midori-elementary-daily
<codygarver> thanks for your help again
<wgrant> dobey: Non-native necessarily implies release tarball
<wgrant> A package is non-native iff it has at least one orig.tar.*
<dobey> does "debuild -S -sa" in the tree of a non-native package without an orig.tar in the parent directory, fail completely, or ask you to continue anyway, with the new dpkg?
<StevenK> It will fail completly, I think.
<wgrant> dobey: If you've specified '3.0 (quilt)' as the format it will fail
<wgrant> I don't know the behaviour of format 1.0 in the new dpkg
<dobey> :(
<wgrant> But it previously would fall back to native, as there was no way to distinguish.
<wgrant> 3.0 (quilt) without an orig.tar.gz has failed since almost day 1
<dobey> since day 1?
<wgrant> 3.0 (native) with a non-native version has only failed since last week.
<wgrant> day 1 of the 3.0 formats.
<dobey> no, it doesn't fail. it asks if you want to make the source anyway
<wgrant> dpkg-source: error: can't build with source format '3.0 (quilt)': no upstream tarball found at ../hello_2.8+fake.orig.tar.{bz2,gz,lzma,xz}
<wgrant> It asks, but still fails.
<dobey> oh, ok
<dobey> can't bzr-builder export the tree to the orig.tar.gz if format is 3.0 (quilt)?
<dobey> seems like it should do
<StevenK> It will do so, given pristine-tar information is in the branch.
<dobey> and generate a giant diff for all changes made since that tarball release? that is silly
<wgrant> Silly?
<wgrant> What else can it do?
<dobey> export the current revision of the tree to the orig.tar?
<wgrant> That would be the original tarball, though.
<wgrant> s/would/wouldn't/
<dobey> yes it would be
<wgrant> How?
<dobey> it would be the original tarball for that revision of the branch.
<dobey> and it would avoid many other potential failures as a result of not doing that
<wgrant> What potential failures?
<dobey> such as binary files in the tree having changed since the last "tarbsll release"
<wgrant> There shouldn't be binary files in a source tree in the first place :P
<dobey> yeah, well, good luck with that
<wgrant> What version would the orig.tar.gz have?
<wgrant> How do we ensure that it's bit-identical each time?
<dobey> the same version as the recipe
<wgrant> 3.0 (quilt) handles changed binaries anyway.
<wgrant> If it's the same version as the recipe, what value does it provide over a native non-orig.tar.gz/
<wgrant> orig.tar.gzs are useful because they can be shared.
<dobey> making versions strings that are correct for things that aren't native sources
<dobey> well if you are getting orig.tar.gzs from a PPA to use as "official original tarballs" you've already failed
<wgrant> There may be some value in being able to construct a bit-identical tarball from just the upstream branch with a version like 1.0+bzr20131122, but it's not entirely clear how that would work, and it's significantly more complicated.
<dobey> for official archive, sure; for PPAs, many of them aren't maintained by debian developers
<dobey> "bzr export" isn't complicated
<wgrant> Daily builds today should either produce a native package with a native version, or produce a non-native package based on some real release tarball for which the branch has pristine-tar metadata, and include changes since the tarball in the debian.tar.gz.
<dobey> recipes can't use real release tarballs
<wgrant> dobey: Recipes would need to specify how to construct the upstream tree and then separately how to apply the Debian changes.
<wgrant> dobey: Why can't they?
<wgrant> Lots of recipes do.
<dobey> because people making recipe builds of things don't necessarily have commit priveleges to the things they are packaging to add pristine-tar info to them, even if it made sense to do so
<wgrant> They could include the pristine-tar metadata in the packaging branch.
<wgrant> Anyway, those are the two ways it works today.
<wgrant> If you want to implement the separate upstream branch functionality, by all means.
<dobey> and pristine-tar doesn't make sense in the recipes; the thing i am packaging isn't the last released tarball with a signficant number of changes in a giant diff. it's trunk.
<dobey> anyway, i am not in .au time zone, so i should go get some sleep :)
<wgrant> pristine-tar makes sense in recipes.
<wgrant> One could argue it makes less sense in *daily build* recipes.
<wgrant> That's up for debate.
<dobey> sure, if those recipes are packaging a specific revision of a branch that is exactly the same as the tarball in question :)
<wgrant> Or recipes composing upstream releases and a Debian branch.l
<wgrant> Not all recipes are of an ever-changing trunk.
<dobey> all the ones i care about are :)
<wgrant> But they are not all the recipes in the world.
<dobey> no, but they are the ones that are broken by these changes
<wgrant> Recipes that are daily builds of trunk must today use one of the two solutions I described.
<dobey> while the others aren't, and wouldn't be broken by changing bzr-builder to deal with the changes in a better way for these sorts of recipes
<wgrant> If someone wants to implement the third, they can.
<wgrant> bzr-builder can't simply be magically changed.
<wgrant> It would require an extension of the recipe format, for example.
<wgrant> If someone wants to do that, that'd be great.
<dobey> anyway, sleep for now
<dobey> later :)
<wgrant> Night
<Noskcaj> wgrant, To test if the package builds. If so, it can be synced to ubuntu
<czajkowski> aloha
<philsf> I need help with a recipe for building packages in LP. When I test locally (bzr dailydeb recipe wd), the source package is built. When I request a build in LP, I get the following error: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/157361878/buildlog.txt.gz
<philsf> how come LP is complaining I didn't set my LP-id, if I'm doing it while logged in?
<dobey> that has nothing to do with your lp id; you aren't running the recipe, launchpad is, on a build server in a chroot somewhere. it doesn't have your credentials to access or write to things
<dobey> what is the url for the recipe?
<philsf> https://code.launchpad.net/~philsf/+recipe/philsf-likes-workstation
<dobey> so, some stuff in format 0.4 doesn't work on launchpad yet. format 0.3 works fine though. so you need to use something like "{debupstream}+r{revno}" for the version instead of {latest-tag}
<philsf> dobey, hmm, but this way I can't use a single recipe to track releases from tags, right? that is, unless I request a build whenever I push the revision of a release, am I correct?
<dobey> what do you mean? {latest-tag} also isn't really a good version number. the tag could be "foo" which isn't a number at all. version numbers have to begin with a digit
<dobey> philsf: also, the version string in the recipe doesn't control what revision is being checked out in the build
<philsf> dobey, I always use tags like "0.1.0", or something like that. I thought it was the simplest way to manage releases in LP
<philsf> dobey, yay, it built now. thanks! I think I'll only use {debversion}, since I don't need a daily build
<dobey> well, the binary build will fail
<philsf> why?
<dobey> because your branch doesn't contain anything but the debian/ directory; so nothing to build or install
<philsf> I meant {debupstream}, not {debversion}.
<philsf> debuild builds the binary package fine. what should I do to create a metapackage that makes LP happy, then?
<dobey> you are trying to make a metapackage?
<philsf> yup
<philsf> btw, is there a way NOT to include ~ubuntu13.10.1 or similar in the uploaded package version?
<dobey> it might work as-is. you'll have to wait 5+ hours to see
<dobey> no, there isn't
<dobey> the ubuntu release version is automatically appended to all recipe builds
<dobey> if you are going to build on multiple versions of ubuntu, it is very necessary
<philsf> If I want the kind of versioning that is usual in official packages (say, for another project),  would I need to use the likes of dput instead of using a recipe?
<dobey> i'm not sure what you're asking exactly
<philsf> lol, sorry. say I have a serious project I'm releasing, and want the package version to be 0.1, or 0.1-1, instead of 0.1~ubuntu13.10. How can I accomplish that in LP?
<philsf> (for an example, I'm working on launchpad.net/~mmrrsim, but that packaging is not finished yet)
<dobey> well, in a PPA you should always append the ~ubuntu13.10.1 for example
<dobey> whether it is via dput or a recipe
<philsf> for this ~mmrrsim project, I intend to ask debian to include it there, then ask ubuntu to include. but I'm using LP as upstream, for both coding and packaging, bugs, questions, etc.
<dobey> if you want 0.1 (because you're a native package), or 0.1-1 (because you're a non-native package with an orig.tar.gz), or 0.1-0ubuntu1 (because you want it in ubuntu) you should do the requisite work to get it included in debian or ubuntu
<dobey> PPAs are not the place official debian/ubuntu packages
<dobey> recipes are easier because they automatically append the ~ubuntu13.10.1 bit
<dobey> so they are great for making use of PPAs easier
<philsf> dobey, cool. thanks for clarifying that. I'll do exactly that for my work project. the one I bothered you about is just a little thing to help me keep updated in all my boxes.
<dobey> philsf: maybe you should look at using oneconf in software-center, instead of a meta package
<dobey> philsf: it's a feature that allows you to install the same packages as you have installed on another computer on your network
<philsf> dobey, thanks for the pointer. I was curious about metapackaging, though ;)
<philsf> it's also a simple way of sharing my base workstation install with coworkers. the rant about the ~ubuntu13.10 is irrelevant, and as you said, useful
<slackner> wgrant: Hiho. You probably remember our questions recently about moving PPAs to a different user/groups, where we didn't find a good solution. Is it probably possible to put just a symlink / redirection at the original location of the PPA, and reuse the same signing key for a new one, without breaking the installation of our current users? Or alternatively that all packages are copied automatically from one location to the other one?
<maxb> Automatic copying could be done with a cronjob calling the lp web api
<wgrant> slackner: Neither of those are possible within Launchpad, but as maxb suggests you could use an API script and cron to keep two PPAs in sync.
<slackner> wgrant: is it technically not possible, or just not implemented?
<wgrant> Aliasing PPAs is not supported and difficult to support in the current implementation. We could probably work out a way to transfer a PPA key if you have a good reason to request it.
<wgrant> slackner: ^^
<slackner> wgrant: well, what we would like to have is one central PPA for all package, unfortunately we started with several ones, and we cannot just change it with >10k users
<slackner> wgrant: transfering PPA keys itself would not be sufficient, as users will need some time to figure out that the old PPA is deprecated
<slackner> wgrant: does it make sense to fill out feature requests for this (which could be implemented in the next time)? or do we have to use something like the cronjob approach?
<slackner> wgrant: not sure how everything works internally, but in principle a http redirect and a new ppa with same key should already do the trick (if i don't miss anything)
<wgrant> slackner: We'd transfer the PPA key manually by hacking the database, but it's unlikely that we'd be able implement PPA redirects within say a year. I'd suggest that using an API cronjob would be your best bet for now.
<slackner> wgrant: hm, okay.. well, the cronjob method also seems a bit hacky too me, but if there isn't any better solution we'll implement it ^^ thanks!
<wgrant> slackner: Yeah, it's not ideal, but it should work fine for now.
<maxb> slackner: there's a script you can use already written, look for lp-promote-ppa in lp:hydrazine
<slackner> maxb: ah, nice :)
#launchpad 2013-11-23
<excalibr> Hello. I've just finished installing openid extension into my mediawiki and now I'm trying to integrate launchpad openid into the wiki. Can someone point me into the right direction how to do it?
<wgrant> excalibr: Have you tried http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:OpenID?
<excalibr> wgrant, that's the guide I used but I'm already done with that openid installation part
<excalibr> now just need to figure how to add launchpad single signon into the openid
<wgrant> As you'd configure the plugin for any other OpenID provider.
<wgrant> login.launchpad.net isn't particularly special.
 * excalibr facepalms
<excalibr> didn't know it was that easy
<shadeslayer> hi
<shadeslayer> could someone manually run the janitor for https://launchpad.net/~rohangarg/+archive/firefox/+packages
<wgrant> It doesn't quite work like that.
<wgrant> I've increased the quota instead.
<shadeslayer> wgrant: thanks!
#launchpad 2013-11-24
<alkisg> Hi, how can I prevent launchpad from doing daily translation commits, when the only things that are changed are the headers that launchpad itself inserts, like "X-Launchpad-Export-Date:Â 2013-11-24Â 04:30+0000\n"?
<alkisg> E.g. http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ldm-trunk/revision/1532
<wgrant> alkisg: Hmm
<wgrant> alkisg: It decides it has to rewrite all the POs because the POT has changed.
<wgrant> But I think the only change in the POT is this:
<wgrant> "POT-Creation-Date: 2013-11-24 04:34+0000\n"
<alkisg> wgrant: could you please also read my latest comment in https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/220460 ?
<alkisg> I think the problem is us, we don't know how to tell intltool to not change/delete ldm.pot when there are no changes at all
<alkisg> I think that intltool should be clever enough to not change even the header, when there are no changes, but we don't know how to do that
<wgrant> I wonder if Launchpad needs to detect that nothing has changed.
<wgrant> Otherwise intltool will regenerate the same POT each time and not notice.
<wgrant> Because the old one isn't stored in the branch, so intltool can't see it to know that there are no updates.
<alkisg> That would be the ideal solution, yes, but gtv said in my launchpad question that it's hard to implement
<alkisg> So, maybe us putting back ldm.pot in the source tree and having intltool not update it when there are no changes, could be a good solution at least for this project...
 * alkisg unfortunately doesn't know how to do that :)
<wgrant> So, I have no idea how intltool works, I'm afraid.
<wgrant> I don't know too much about translations stuff.
<wgrant> It's possible that you can fix it in your code.
<wgrant> Ideally Launchpad would let you tell it to not attempt template generation, and just go with whatever's in the branch, but there's no way to do that today.
<alkisg> Hmm... I think that the ldm.pot that we had in the trunk was outdated, I wonder if committing a recent one would fix the issue
<alkisg> I.e. it even had wrong source code lines for some translations there
<alkisg> Not just its headers....
<wgrant> Hm, possibly.
<wgrant> It still leaves the issue that once it *does* diverge it'll resume committing every day, but it might fix it for now...
<wgrant> But again, I have no idea how intltool does things :(
<alkisg> I think that if we leave ldm.pot in the branch, and manage to tell intltool to not remove it after build, then problem solved,
<alkisg> i.e. launchpad will commit an updated ldm.pot on our source tree when there are actual changes, and stop committing both .pot and .po when there aren't any changes
#launchpad 2014-11-17
<mpt> dobey, yes, it works fine now
<ScottK> Could someone with access see where the latest sddm upload went?  It was uploaded over 10 minutes ago and didn't make it to vivid New yet.
<cjwatson> 16:45 -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: rejected sddm [source] (vivid-proposed) [0.10.0+dfsg1-0ubuntu1]
<cjwatson> Not that one?
<ScottK> No.
<cjwatson> One moment then.
<ScottK> That's when I rejected the first try.
<ScottK> It got reuploaded after that.
<cjwatson> 2014-11-17 17:44:30 INFO    Failed to parse changes file '/srv/launchpad.net/ubuntu-queue/incoming/upload-ftp-20141117-174344-029466/ubuntu/sddm_0.10.0+dfsg1-0ubuntu1_source.changes': GPG verification of /srv/launchpad.net/ubuntu-queue/incoming/upload-ftp-20141117-1
<cjwatson> 74344-029466/ubuntu/sddm_0.10.0+dfsg1-0ubuntu1_source.changes failed: Verification failed 3 times: ["(7, 9, u'No public key')", "(7, 9, u'No public key')", "(7, 9, u'No public key')"]
<cjwatson> Unsigned?
<ScottK> Heh.
<cjwatson> Hmm, that's quite a lot of rejections for the same reason around the same time.
<cjwatson> There may have been a keyserver glitch.
<ScottK> Don't sweat it over that one, I'd have had to reject it again anyway.
<cjwatson> Only one for the primary archive, but eight for PPAs, all timestamped 17:44:33.
<ScottK> I do think that's likely however, since the copy he posted on his web server was signed.
<cjwatson> We've accepted stuff since then though.
<ScottK> We used to have keyserver glitch rejections all the time, but it got better.
<ScottK> I wonder if the design has regressed?
#launchpad 2014-11-18
<Laibsch> Launchpad API newbie here. When I look at https://api.launchpad.net/1.0/ubuntu/karmic/+source/samba/+bug/513727 for example, it has a field named bug_link which points to bugs.launchpad.net server
<Laibsch> the URL is in the variable in task in a python script but when I try to get the value of task.bug_link I get an URL pointing to the api.launchpad.net server
<Laibsch> where is my misunderstanding?
<dobey> Laibsch: most any _link item in the API, points to the location of that item in the API. you need to get that item, and then get its web_link item, if you want the link to the web
<cjwatson> Laibsch: The application/xhtml+xml version of that resource turns at least some links into web links (I don't know the precise details), but the application/json version is what real API clients use and that has URLs on api.launchpad.net.
<cjwatson> Laibsch: But it's unusual to care about this detail.
<cjwatson> Laibsch: Clients would usually just use task.bug rather than task.bug_link, and work with the materialised version of that object.
<cjwatson> (Except in some performance-sensitive cases where you want to avoid the cost of that.)
<Laibsch> thanks, guys. web_link did it
<cjwatson> Ah, right, if you actually want the web URL then yes.
<cjwatson> For display or for passing to a browser or something?
<Laibsch> I want to check with the browser what's behind some stuff that I am fiddling with over API
<cjwatson> OK
<brianhogg> Hello all - Iâm getting a 404 after adding ppa:builds/sphinxsearch-stable then apt-get update, would that be a temporary issue or something incorrect with the particular ppa?
<teward> brianhogg: probably the wrong place to ask, but question: which Ubuntu release are you on?
<brianhogg> teward: 14.04
<teward> brianhogg: that PPA doesn't provide packages for Trusty
<teward> https://launchpad.net/~builds/+archive/ubuntu/sphinxsearch-stable/+packages
<teward> brianhogg: you need to reach out to that team and have them update the PPA to include Trusty builds.  Alternatively, you can specify it a custom string for accessing the PPAs precise builds, but there's a lot of good reasons NOT to do that
<brianhogg> teward: for sure.  I started a thread and will update, on their docs page http://sphinxsearch.com/docs/current.html#installing-debian they point to sphinxsearch-daily, but same lack of trusty builds issue there.
<brianhogg> will update the forum thread and let them know.  thanks!
#launchpad 2014-11-19
<olli> hiya
<olli> someone around who can point me to documentation how to setup a meta project (e.g. like /zeitgeist-project)
<cjwatson> olli: https://help.launchpad.net/ProjectGroups
<olli> hah, /me waves at cjwatson ;)
<olli> thx
#launchpad 2014-11-21
<sergio-br2> hi
<Laibsch> How can I gain the necessary privs to accept or decline nominations for a release pocket?  Currently, as a member of bug-control I can only nominate but not accept or decline nominations.
<dobey> Laibsch: you need upload privileges for the package in question
<Laibsch> I see
<dobey> iow, you need to be a maintainer of the package
<Laibsch> Hopefully, I will get some of those for at least a few packages
<Laibsch> dobey: Is there a way to list only nominations for the packages I have upload rights to?
<Laibsch> IOW, those needing acceptance or rejections
<dobey> on the web page? no, not really afaik
<ScottK> dobey: We don't have maintainers in Debian.
<dobey> ScottK: nobody said anything about debian
<ScottK> Sorry.
<ScottK> Ubuntu
<ScottK> Debian very definitely has maintainers
<Laibsch> What I am interested in is to limit https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/trusty/+nominations to those tickets affecting packages where I *can* make accept/reject decisions
<Laibsch> I am in the process of hopefully getting PPU upload rights soonish
<dobey> ScottK: whether we generally use the word "maintainer" to refer to the people who maintain things in ubuntu, or not, is a separate argument
<dobey> Laibsch: there is no user-based nominations page, that i know of on launchpad. you could probably write a script using the API to only get nominations for packages you have privileges to upload for
#launchpad 2014-11-22
<FailBit> can I use launchpadlib to grab a commit message from a specified revno of a bazaar branch?
<shadeslayer> out of curiousity, how does launchpad deal with incoming uploads over ftp? Does it react when it detects new .changes files ( in which case, what happens if the .changes file is uploaded first, and the orig is uploaded at the end, and the processing might happen before the orig gets fully uploaded )
<shadeslayer> or is it a cron job?
<shadeslayer> wgrant: cjwatson ^^ ideas?
<shadeslayer> wgrant: cjwatson ah ah, nvm
<FailBit> Anyone get my question from yesterday?
<cjwatson> FailBit: Not directly.  You can use launchpadlib to get the branch URL, but you'd then need to use bzr or bzrlib to get individual commit messages.  launchpadlib doesn't wrap bzrlib.
<FailBit> Ok
<cjwatson> shadeslayer: It's a cron job; but the FTP upload server is a custom one that moves the whole upload into place in one go at the end of the upload transaction.
<shadeslayer> roger
<shadeslayer> cjwatson: it's just that I was using the rsync/scp backend
<shadeslayer> and that does fancy chmod stuff at the end
<shadeslayer> and inotincoming had already triggered reprepro and reprepro had already deleted the files, so chmod failed
<shadeslayer> hurray for things being too fast
<shadeslayer> :P
<shadeslayer> anyway, lunch :)
<cjwatson> shadeslayer: Right, the upload server has to be quite careful if it wants to avoid that class of problem.  On the other hand it's a trade-off; it means that you can't resume an incomplete upload if it fails, and other similar problems (https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/30415)
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 30415 in Launchpad itself "soyuz upload system pays attention to ftp sessions" [Low,Triaged]
<FailBit> oops.
<FailBit> how do I get a information about a revno with bzrlib
<FailBit> ?
<FailBit> bzr log --line -c <revno> <branch>
<shadeslayer> cjwatson: mmm fun
<shadeslayer> anyway, I'm writing my own solution with ruby inotify now
<shadeslayer> because for some reason sftp + inotincoming doesn't work
<FailBit> what's "GhostRevisionsHaveNoRevno" ?
<FailBit> $ bzr log --line -r 13337 lp:inkscape/experimental
<FailBit> bzr: ERROR: Server sent an unexpected error: ('error', 'GhostRevisionsHaveNoRevno'â¦
<FailBit> what does it mean?
<FailBit> please, I'm so impatientâ¦
<FailBit> anyone?
<wgrant> FailBit: That's bug #1049124. What exactly are you trying to do?
<ubot5> bug 1049124 in Bazaar "bzr log -rxxx crashes out with 'ghost' in branch, but not in trunk" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1049124
<FailBit> wgrant: I was able to use nosmart+branchurl to get my bot to work
<wgrant> It specifically affects asking a stacked branch for a revision that isn't in the branch itself, so it's often simple to work around.
<wgrant> Right, that works too.
<wgrant> The smartserver revision_id_to_revno method doesn't know to look at the stacked-on repository.
<FailBit> The only problem is that bzr is slow =/
<FailBit> 10 seconds after the request, usually it finds it
<wgrant> Well, at least you can perform remote operations at all :)
<wgrant> With eg. git you have to clone the repository locally to get the log.
<FailBit> Compare
<FailBit> /msg InkBot !bug 12345
<FailBit> /msg InkBot !revno 12345
<ubot5> bug 12345 in isdnutils (Ubuntu) "isdn does not work, fritz avm (pnp?)" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/12345
<wgrant> Sure. If you want quick, regular access, just keep a copy of the branch locally.
<FailBit> !revno takes another (optional) argument
<ubot5> FailBit: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<FailBit> /msg InkBot !revno 1234,lp:lib2geom
<FailBit> You can't have every branch always up to date locally unless you are the server :P
<FailBit> taotie or something like that.
<wgrant> That's the one.
<wgrant> The current codehosting infrastructure doesn't let us provide direct access like that in an efficient manner. Upcoming changes should improve that, but it's all at least a year off.
<FailBit> wgrant: the launchpad automailer is kinda odd â for example, comments in merge proposals have a mail sent instantly, while branch revision emails take a few minutes
#launchpad 2014-11-23
<psusi> the user "Redwolfe" has now posted spam to bug #1268412 twice... can we get a cleanup and banhammer please?
<ubot5> bug 1268412 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "13.10 amd64 install DVD crashes on "repair/enable=true"" [Undecided,Expired] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1268412
<wgrant> FailBit: Same sort of case there. Revision emails require a lot more work to calculate the content and recipients, plus they're still run from a cronjob. MP emails just send out pretty boring text, and have been ported to our new RabbitMQ-based low-latency job infrastructure.
<FailBit> wgrant: a cronjob!?
<FailBit> for that?
<FailBit> I lol'd
<wgrant> We didn't have a proper message queue when that was written a good many years ago.
<FailBit> what is going on Spads
<FailBit> wgrant: will branch notification emails ever be ported as well?
<wgrant> FailBit: All part of the rework that we're doing next year.
<FailBit> cool
<FailBit> I'll update my bot to start reading my email :D
<wgrant> We should have webhooks at that point, too.
<FailBit> oh, nice
<RahulAN> hii all i am using tiva C series TMC123gxl processor with stelleris  library
<RahulAN> i am not able to print float values
<RahulAN> please help
<cjwatson> RahulAN: Wrong Launchpad; this channel is about launchpad.net, not the TI Launchpad kits
<RahulAN> cjwatson, Ohkk.. sorry :D
<gothic1> Hello
<gothic1> I need help with reporting a horrible font for a certain language in Ubuntu, which makes it impossible for me to read the language clearly.
<teward> gothic1: you might want to start in #ubuntu.  this channel is for Launchpad specific support, and ubuntu bugs are best filed with ubuntu-bug
<gothic1> teward: Yes, but the people there can't help me neither.
<teward> gothic1: well this channel still won't help much, either, what you need to do is find the package that provides the specific font and file the bug with `ubuntu-bug <package>`
<gothic1> teward: Yes, I already tried that, but I can't find the font nowhere at my system. So I also don't know which package to report.
<teward> gothic1: mind a PM?
<gothic1> teward: no problem.
#launchpad 2015-11-16
<retrojeff> how do I view the build logs of a package inside a PPA?
<retrojeff> I know its possible I just forgot how
<retrojeff> what I want to find out is what git revision got built
<wgrant> retrojeff: Visit the PPA, click "View package details", click the relevant package row, then select the architecture that you're interested in.
<retrojeff> thanks
<retrojeff> ok I found the build logs
<retrojeff> what its not showing is where its getting the .tar.gz from
<wgrant> retrojeff: Which PPA and package?
<retrojeff> https://launchpad.net/~libretro/+archive/ubuntu/testing/+build/8302184
<wgrant> retrojeff: That package was built from a recipe, so you can find the details of the source build under "Source package recipe build" on the right.
<retrojeff> it was built fine and everything works I just wish to know which github revision it is
<retrojeff> so I need to check the build log from
<retrojeff> https://launchpad.net/~libretro/+archive/ubuntu/testing/+recipebuild/1020450
<wgrant> Yes.
<alkisg> Hi guys, the "assignee" entry in launchpad is often mis-interpreted by not-native english speakers as "the person that reported this bug", so they frequently assign it to themselves
<alkisg> I wonder if a different word could be used there
<alkisg> They usually know what "assign" means, but the "-ee" part is a bit harder to get, they're interpreting it more like "assigner" than "assignee".
<maxb> The only other word frequently used in this context is owner, but that's not really any better
<alkisg> Maybe a notice could help then, in the box where they're trying to change it... "This is the first time that you've assigned a bug to yourself, are you sure that you are planning to solve this bug yourself and that you want to notify others to stop working on it?"
<guest123456> Hello. I accidentally changed the information type on a bug. Is there a way to undo that/delete that from the bug's history?
<guest123456> I'm talking about this bug report: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sssd/+bug/1317949
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1317949 in sssd (Ubuntu) "Unable to see secondary groups in `id` listing" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<faenil> morning :)
<faenil> is it possible to add ssh keys to a team account?
<wgrant> guest123456: You can set the information type back, but it's not possible to remove items from the history.
<wgrant> faenil: That's not possible. What are you trying to do?
<guest123456> wgrant: I see. Thank you!
<faenil> wgrant: the usecase is, you have a laptop which can be access by many users, and you want to be able to allow branching repos from that laptop without having everyone copying their private ssh keys to it
<wgrant> faenil: You'll need to create an account that represents that shared laptop.
<wgrant> It's not possible to authenticate directly as a team.
<faenil> wgrant: that means having a shared account though, which is a security risk
<wgrant> faenil: How's that more of a security risk than having a shared key on the team?
<faenil> wgrant: I don't know, I'm just looking for ways to do this. Having everything handled as team could mean that when people leave the team they lose access
<wgrant> faenil: Couldn't they just take the shared SSH key from the laptop?
<faenil> wgrant: yes
<wgrant> That's the problem with sharing creds.
<wgrant> You can't revoke just one person's access.
<wgrant> Whether or not it's a shared user or a team.
<faenil> wgrant: that's why I'm asking here, I hoped there was a more clever way of doing it using launchpad features
<faenil> :)
<wgrant> It's a fundamental aspect of shared creds, unfortunately.
<wgrant> Not much LP can do about it.
<faenil> wgrant: we just want to download repos, there should be a way of downloading public stuff without the need of any authentication, shouldn't there?
<faenil> I understand uploading/committing..
<wgrant> faenil: Oh, sure, anonymous access to public stuff is fine.
<wgrant> Doesn't require any keys.
<faenil> wgrant: cool!
<faenil> wgrant: so for private data the only alternative is the shared account, right?
<wgrant> faenil: Well, shared accounts are bad and everyone should really have their own, but if that's not an option for you for some reason then you probably no choice.
<faenil> wgrant: how is copying private keys to a machine which can be accessed by anyone any better?
<wgrant> faenil: It's worse.
<faenil> :)
<wgrant> But you haven't described your use-case thoroughly; it's difficult to advise on better solutions.
<faenil> wgrant: I don't think I can add any detail :/
<faenil> wgrant: but hey, as long as downloading with anonymous user is fine, I guess we can handle the other cases separately with different security measures
<wgrant> faenil: If you just need to branch private code, you'd probably want a separate LP account with an SSH key and read-only access to the code in question.
<wgrant> We use that for deployments of private code, for example.
<wgrant> But someone copying the key to retain access to the code after they leave the company is always a risk
<faenil> wgrant: yeah, so the shared account
<faenil> wgrant: alright, thanks for the help :)
<faenil> wgrant: yeah, there doesn't seem to be an ideal solution :/
<faenil> wgrant: how can I disable ssh in launchpad config? it seems it forces ssh if it finds ssh keys in the default folder
<wgrant> faenil: Remove the username config from ~/.bazaar/bazaar.conf and ~/.bazaar/authentication.conf
<faenil> wgrant: I renamed the folder, but it still expects a username
<faenil> as in, it uses the system login as username
<wgrant> faenil: What are you running?
<faenil> 15.10
<wgrant> I mean the command.
<faenil> bzr merge
<wgrant> bzr merge what?
<wgrant> If there's no username configured, lp: will use HTTP
<faenil> the parent repo
<wgrant> If there is a username, it will use bzr+ssh
<faenil> there's no .bazaar folder atm, I renamed it
<wgrant> Right, but what's the URL you're trying to merge?
<wgrant> If it starts with bzr+ssh://, it will require an SSH key.
<faenil> wgrant: I see ...> "Merging from remembered parent location bzr+ssh://"
<wgrant> The http:// equivalent supports anonymous access.
<faenil> the cached value is ssh, that's why
<faenil> I'll change that
<faenil> wgrant: done and working, thanks o/
 * israelplanaguma la_juyis
<israelplanaguma> ukelele
<dobey> uhm ok
<israelplanaguma> hello
 * israelplanaguma la_juyis
<israelplanaguma> ukelele
<dobey> why do you keep saying that?
<la_juyis> hi israelplanaguma - please try now
#launchpad 2015-11-17
<slackner> hiho. i've been wondering, if there is any way for the wine project to acquire the launchpad user/group name ~wine, which seems to be reserved
<slackner> when clicking on "Are you Wine?" it send an email with instructions to someone, but its noone of the wine team. maybe some random user who registered it back then? is there any other way to get that name, or is it better to register something else?
<slackner> wgrant: ^
<wgrant> slackner: I've freed up the name.
<slackner> wgrant: thx :)
<tsv> hi, is this the right channel to get help for launchpad multi-factor auth issues ?
<cjwatson> tsv: Despite the hostname, login.launchpad.net isn't actually operated by us.  #canonical-sysadmin is probably best-placed to help.
<tsv> thanks cjwatson, will do
<pmjdebruijn> I have a package that seems to depend on trusty-backports
<pmjdebruijn> can I enable that for my package build
<pmjdebruijn> or do I have to locally backport it to my PPA myself?
<pmjdebruijn> ibosmgpsmap-1.0-dev and friends in particular
<pmjdebruijn> l*
<dobey> you can change the PPA dependencies to include backports
<dobey> using the "Edit dependencies" link in the top right on the page for your PPA
<pmjdebruijn> ok thanks
<pmjdebruijn> how does that work for general users though?
<pmjdebruijn> will apt-add-repository tell them about it?
<pmjdebruijn> or enable backports automatically?
<dobey> i don't know about add-apt-repository. anyone wishing to use the PPA at that point would indeed need to have backports enabled on their system
<pmjdebruijn> ok
<dobey> if you don't want to require users to have backports enabled, you can copy the package from the archive to your PPA
<pmjdebruijn> copy?
<pmjdebruijn> you mean rebuild the sources right?
<dobey> the binaries can be copied over, or you can rebuild the sources
<pmjdebruijn> how does copying work?
<dobey> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archive/primary/+copy-packages?field.name_filter=osm-gps-map&field.status_filter=published&field.series_filter=trusty
<dobey> you can copy the binaries from there
<dobey> there's a command line tool to do it as well, iirc, but i don't recall what it's called
<pmjdebruijn> ah thanks
<mapreri> the CLI tool is called "copy-packages" :P
<mapreri> "copy-package" (sorry)
<pmjdebruijn> thanks!
<cjwatson> indeed, it's in lp:ubuntu-archive-tools
<pmjdebruijn> tnx
<smoser> anyone able to help
<smoser> $ bzr push lp:ubuntu/xenial/cloud-init
<smoser> bzr: ERROR: Server sent an unexpected error: ('error', 'xmlrpclib.Fault', '<Fault -1: "Unexpected Zope exception: TypeError: (\'Could not adapt\', <SuiteSourcePackage ubuntu/xenial/cloud-init>, <InterfaceClass lp.code.interfaces.branchtarget.IBranchTarget>)">')
<su_v> cjwatson: ping
<cjwatson> su_v: Please tell me what you want and I'll reply when I'm around.
<su_v> oops - good timing ;-)
<su_v> just wanted to ask for another round of cleanup ...
<su_v> https://answers.launchpad.net/inkscape
<Mc-> hi all, we got another massive spam posting at https://answers.launchpad.net/inkscape
<blr> Mc-: spam seems to be escalating at the moment, although it looks like we have already suspended that account. Hopefully we can get that cleaned up today.
<Mc-> ok, thanks
<Mc-> how can a suspended account still be posting ?
<blr> Mc-: that's an excellent question :|
<su_v> afaict different accounts ( the last three has been posted later, by a different user )
<su_v> "dgjkkjl" vs "dsfkljk" (both now suspended)
<Mc-> yeah but dsfkljk was already suspended 6 minuets ago
<Mc-> (i think)
<su_v> when I checked, the account was not suspended yet
<Mc-> ok
<su_v> (of the last three postings)
<su_v> now it is
<Mc-> i'll look more carefully at the name
<cjwatson> I'll feed it to my despam script
<blr> Mc-: it appears they _were_ suspended after their last post (suspension is working as expected).
<Mc-> ok
<cjwatson> dealt with the current run
<Mc-> thx
<cjwatson> it's all more technical support phone number spam, if wgrant is wondering
<lifeless> cjwatson: blr has a find_links issue
<lifeless> cjwatson: I'm guessing this is a buildout replacement approach - but find_links is basically dead :)
<wgrant> lifeless: It's the only way to prevent setuptools from being stupid.
<wgrant> lifeless: We need to prevent setuptools from ever hitting the Internet, even accidentally.
<lifeless> wgrant: you don't need find_links for that
<lifeless> wgrant: override the index location
<cjwatson> do you have a specific suggestion for options to pass?
<cjwatson> and yes, it's to some extent buildout replacement, but also "this is the best that seemed to actually work" :-)
<lifeless> cjwatson: so yes
<lifeless> cjwatson: step 1, create a local index; step 2 for pip pass -i <local index url>, for setuptools - sec while I look up the incantation
<lifeless> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/15014180/setuptools-easy-install-and-a-custom-pypi-server
<lifeless> cjwatson: ^
<lifeless> first answer there is sane
<blr> thanks lifeless
<lifeless> de nada
#launchpad 2015-11-18
<morphis> is that known that launchpad git repositories loose all tags?
<morphis> wgrant: any idea?
<wgrant> morphis: Can you provide an example?
<wgrant> Tags work fine in general.
<morphis> wgrant: I pushed a bunch of tags to https://code.launchpad.net/~libhybris-maintainers/libhybris/+git/libhybris
<morphis> but when I clone that repo again they are all lost
<morphis> also cgit doesn't show any
<morphis> https://git.launchpad.net/~libhybris-maintainers/libhybris/+git/libhybris/refs/
<seb128> hey there
<seb128> does launchpad has records of who changed translation domains?
<seb128> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-rtm/15.04/+source/unity8/+pots/unity8/+admin got changed to unity89280
<wgrant> morphis: There's nothing magical about LP git pushes. Are you sure you pushed them in the first place?
<wgrant> Can you try pushing them again?
<wgrant> seb128: Any idea when?
<morphis> wgrant: sure
<seb128> wgrant, between 11-04 and 11-11
<morphis> wgrant: http://paste.ubuntu.com/13326374/
<morphis> wgrant: I pushed all tags now, before I pushed a single one
<morphis> but that didn't help
<wgrant> morphis: Wrong URL
<wgrant> ~libhybris-maintainers/+git/libhybris vs ~libhybris-maintainers/libhybris/+git/libhybris
<morphis> ah damn it
<morphis> ahh
<morphis> wgrant: sorry for the noise :)
<wgrant> morphis: Should that repo be https://git.launchpad.net/libhybris? If so, set it in the git section on https://code.launchpad.net/libhybris/+configure-code
<wgrant> Makes the URL a bit simpler!
<morphis> yeah
<seb128> wgrant, do you have any log of those changes?
<wgrant> seb128: Hadn't changed between 2015-10-28 and today AFAICS
<wgrant> But all I have is web server request logs.
<seb128> hum, k
<cjwatson> lifeless: so step 1 there seems like a non-trivial amount of work to set up (bearing in mind that this is being compared against "no work").  can you explain why "local index plus --index-url=foo" is better than "--no-index --find-links=foo", at least for a smallish directory where it doesn't take long for pip to work things out on the fly?
<cjwatson> lifeless: blr does have some problem with --find-links that we haven't sorted out yet, but it is working fine for other deployments; https://github.com/wolever/pip2pi seems to be a plausible thing for building a local index but it does seem like more work than not doing it :-)
<katyafervent_> Hi all!
<katyafervent_> If blueprint has 'Related bug' section filled, will all that bugs change status after blueprint will be implemented?
<cjwatson> katyafervent_: No, they're linked for information but that doesn't imply particular workflows such as closing bugs
<katyafervent_> cjwatson: ok, thanks
<mapreri> #1517510 \o/
<mapreri> seems like that as soon as canonical chose to invest in lp once again, suddenly a whole lot of new feature has come to ubuntu (or neighborhood) :)
<cjwatson> That one is kind of me off my own bat ;-)
<cjwatson> Though prompted by looking into what's needed for by-hash support
<mapreri> cjwatson: by-hash you mean that new thing in experimental's apt?
<cjwatson> mapreri: Yeah
<mapreri> cool
<lifeless> cjwatson: he's putting find links into setup.py
<lifeless> cjwatson: which pip won't honour unless you also turn it on
<cjwatson> lifeless: not in the code of his that I'm looking at he isn't :)
<lifeless> cjwatson: secondly IIRC setuptools doesn't have a cli find-links equiv, so when dealing with setup_requires you need to take the replacement index approach
<cjwatson> lifeless: he's using it on the pip install command line, and also in .pydistutils.cfg just in case setuptools accidentally gets invoked
<cjwatson> lifeless: find_links works fine in .pydistutils.cfg IME
<cjwatson> lifeless: we're using it successfully in another project.  haven't yet worked out why blr's superficially similar case is failing (because I haven't yet reproduced it myself, because something else is failing first ...)
<cjwatson> what we're doing right now in lp:turnip is:
<lifeless> cjwatson: ah, so I got looped in when he said he *was* using it in setup.py
<lifeless> so, confused wires
<cjwatson> pip install --no-index --find-links=file://blah/
<cjwatson> and in env/.pydistutils.cfg:
<cjwatson> [easy_install]
<cjwatson> allow_hosts = ''
<cjwatson> find_links = file://blah/
<lifeless> ok sure
<cjwatson> so I'm happy to switch to index-url if there's a concrete reason it's better, but the "build local index" step seems a bit more complicated than just letting pip.index work it out
<lifeless> -f on the pip cli is fine
<lifeless> its the find links metadata thats deprecated
<cjwatson> right, cool - yeah, that makes sense
<lifeless> terrible having the same name
<cjwatson> suspect wires got crossed between setup.py and setuptools [metadata] too
<lifeless> cjwatson: certainly somewhere :)
<cjwatson> yay bazaar.launchpad.net has SHA-2 now
<cjwatson> one down, three to go ...
<sarnold> woo :)
<clivejo> Can anyone give me a brief overview of what Upstream project means in LP?
<dobey> clivejo: in what context?
<dobey> the "upstream link" in ubuntu packages in the archive?
<clivejo> well https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdeconnect-plasma is a KDE project and part of Kubuntu
<dobey> yes
<clivejo> its project page is https://community.kde.org/KDEConnect
<dobey> the "upstream link" is to link to a series in launchpad on a project in launchpad, if one exists
<smoser> help
<smoser> $ bzr push --overwrite lp:ubuntu/xenial/cloud-init
<smoser> bzr: ERROR: Server sent an unexpected error: ('error', 'xmlrpclib.Fault', '<Fault -1: "Unexpected Zope exception: TypeError: (\'Could not adapt\', <SuiteSourcePackage ubuntu/xenial/cloud-init>, <InterfaceClass lp.code.interfaces.branchtarget.IBranchTarget>)">')
<smoser> is this  known issue ?
<dobey> bzr branch lp:ubuntu/xenial/cloud-init
<dobey> bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: "bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/+branch/ubuntu/xenial/cloud-init/".
<dobey> not sure if that matters
<smoser> dobey, well, i had added the --overwrite when it failed without it
<smoser> which is probably what confused you.
<smoser> but basically i want to create that thing
<dobey> smoser: i don't think there are any UDD branches for xenial
<dobey> cjwatson: ^^ is that right?
<smoser> what am i supposed to do then ? use a team other than 'ubuntu' ?
<mgz> yeah, I suspect the thing just didn't get run
<mgz> the last few releases either I did it or more recently dimitri
<mgz> there's a thread on ubuntu-devel about this
<dobey> ubuntu isn't a team
<dobey> the "team" that owns the branches is ~ubuntu-branches i think
<mgz> ah, there's a new informative mail from colin
<mgz> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2015-November/039010.html
<dobey> right
<cjwatson> dobey: indeed, not right now
<cjwatson> smoser: you can push to lp:~some-team-you-are-a-member-of/ubuntu/xenial/cloud-init/xenial
<smoser> cjwatson, your're right, i can do that. and i suppose i can probably push to lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/....
<smoser> which gets me the same team that could push as before
<su_v> cjwatson: would you mind running your despam script again on https://answers.launchpad.net/inkscape ? (currently 10 messages from 9 suspended and 1 active spam account) - thx
<cjwatson> su_v: sorry, it'll have to wait, need to give children some attention
<su_v> cjwatson: np
<wgrant> su_v: Done.
<su_v> wgrant: thanks a lot
<ki7mt> Hello, can someone have a look at this build error log and  help me determine what's gone wrong? It was building before, now it's failing amd64: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/226933083/buildlog_ubuntu-trusty-amd64.wsjtx_1.7.0-r6126-1~ki7mt~trusty_BUILDING.txt.gz
<ki7mt> FWIW, i386 and ppc64el built OK, and its now building on armhf
<wgrant> ki7mt: Have you retried the build? That looks like a temporary network issue.
<ki7mt> wgrant, No sir, I have not. But I can do now.
<ki7mt> wgrant, OK trying the rebuild now.
<ki7mt> wgrant, It appears that was the problem, as the build is in the Cmake phase, which I don't think it would have made it that far without the required builds deps.
<ki7mt> It finished OK: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/226935530/buildlog_ubuntu-trusty-amd64.wsjtx_1.7.0-r6126-1~ki7mt~trusty_BUILDING.txt.gz
<ki7mt> Thanks for the help.
#launchpad 2015-11-19
<rbasak> It seems that if I push only git tags to Launchpad, cgit seems to think that the repository is empty. Workaround is to push a branch, any branch, and everything appears.
<rbasak> I don't know if that's a cgit thing or a Launchpad thing, but I thought I'd mention it.
<cjwatson> rbasak: That's a cgit thing.  It happens if it can't find a default branch.
<cjwatson> rbasak: I guess the message is *slightly* misleading but I find it hard to argue with cgit very much here ...
<dobey> is there something in launchpad builder config that somehow lets golang-go pull stuff off the network to build?
<cjwatson> dobey: no - it gets to pull from the archive and that's all
<dobey> ok
<teward> so, I take it the bzr merges coming from Debian aren't working?  (I.e. where code for Debian packages would exist)
<dobey> teward: if you mean UDD branches for xenial packages, they aren't running now
<teward> dobey: i know they're not running, and i know i'm annoyed at that.  talking about lp:debian/PackageNameHere
<teward> and whether those are still pulling in from Debian
<teward> but if they fall under the same umbrella, then that answers the question
<dobey> afaik they were UDD branches just the same
<teward> ok
#launchpad 2015-11-20
<hanno> I have uploaded a source package and then found out that my key was missing. A day later, I have uploaded the key now.
<hanno> On https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/UploadErrors it says there is a "PPA build status page" but I cannot find it for my ppa.
<hanno> dput says the package is already there, but I don't know where to look for the build status.
<hanno> Oh, never mind. I think I found the problem.
<cjwatson> hanno: If LP rejected your upload due to a missing key, it won't automatically reprocess the upload once the key appears - you'll need to reupload for it.
<hanno> Yes, thank you. I fixed it by now.
<hanno> Now I'm with a different problem. Is it okay to ask packaging questions here or is there a better channel?
 * hanno is fighting with .deb
<cjwatson> hanno: I think there's #ubuntu-packaging or some such
<cjwatson> It's not dreadful to ask here, but there may be better places.
<hanno> ok, thx.
<hanno> cjwatson: nobody in ubuntu-packaging. Dead channel?
<cjwatson> hanno: I don't know, sorry
<cjwatson> I did say "or some such", not remembering exactly
<cjwatson> hanno: Feel free to ask, anyway, we can find somewhere to redirect you if it ends up being too much
<hanno> What I'm looking for is a good tutorial on how to populate the debian/patches directory.
<hanno> I can get a simple package ready by now, but don't know how to patch the original source tree.
<cjwatson> hanno: perhaps https://wiki.debian.org/UsingQuilt will help
<cjwatson> or https://raphaelhertzog.com/2012/08/08/how-to-use-quilt-to-manage-patches-in-debian-packages/
<hanno> thx.
<sergio-br2> "source has expired binaries"
<sergio-br2> what's this?
<cjwatson> sergio-br2: Context is a helpful thing
<cjwatson> sergio-br2: But you're probably trying to copy a package that hasn't been published anywhere for a while and so has had its binaries garbage-collected.
<sergio-br2> hey cjwatson
<sergio-br2> yup, I was trying to copy
<sergio-br2> from toolchain PPA
<sergio-br2> gcc 4.9.3 from trusty
<cjwatson> sergio-br2: I haven't managed to pick out the exact cause, but my bet is that, although most of it is still published, one of the gazillion binaries produced by gcc-4.9 has been superseded by one of the other gcc-* source packages in that same PPA
<cjwatson> sergio-br2: and as a result LP no longer has all the binaries from that source and so can't do a copy-with-binaries
<cjwatson> sergio-br2: if you need that specific version then the only thing you can do is to copy-without-binaries and rebuild it
<sergio-br2> weird, I can see the binaries...
<sergio-br2> there's gcc-4.9 and gcc 5.0
<sergio-br2> different packages
<cjwatson> Right, but one of the many individual binaries probably has the same name in a higher-versioned source package and thus was taken over by it
<sergio-br2> ok, let's try to build then
<sergio-br2> will take a day heh
<sigmavirus24> I'm reading the documentation for https://help.launchpad.net/API/Webhooks and it looks like I cannot use webhooks unless I'm in a special group and the event is a VCS push? Is that still correct?
<cjwatson> sigmavirus24: we just lifted the team restriction today - I've edited the docs to remove that bit
<cjwatson> sigmavirus24: VCS push and merge proposal changes
<sigmavirus24> cjwatson: okay, I was hoping for issue event changes on a project
<sigmavirus24> Thanks for the info though cjwatson
<cjwatson> sigmavirus24: please do file bugs for specific other use cases you have
<cjwatson> sigmavirus24: it's not too difficult for us to extend webhooks to more objects now that we've done the hard work of building the infrastructure for it
<sigmavirus24> cjwatson: bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad is the right place for that, correct? (My first time filing a bug against Launchpad)
<cjwatson> sigmavirus24: yep
<sigmavirus24> thanks cjwatson!
#launchpad 2015-11-22
<_Ridgewing> How do I add bug tracking to this project ? Should I just add code, and take it from there ?
<_Ridgewing> https://launchpad.net/xbox360
<Mc-> https://help.launchpad.net/Bugs/YourProject#Getting_started ?
<_Ridgewing> opening...
<_Ridgewing> dont get it . this page doesnot work. https://help.launchpad.net/Teams/Register
<Mc-> i don't know where you got that url. My understanding of the apge i linked is that if you are the project's owner, you should have a "change details" link on the project overview page that allows you to tells lp that you want to use lp's bugtracker
<wgrant> _Ridgewing: Click Bugs at the top of the page.
<dobey> _Ridgewing: i think the problem is you created a project but you wanted to create a team
<dobey> at least, reading the description on the project page, that is what it sounds like
<dobey> and i presume you probably are wondering how to subscribe that team to bugs in ubuntu?
#launchpad 2016-11-21
<socomm> when running 'apt-get update I get " STDERR: W: Failed to fetch http://ppa.launchpad.net/ondrej/php5-5.6/ubuntu/dists/trusty/main/binary-amd64/Packages  404  Not Found
<socomm> when I visit the url it appears as if it is indeed 404, any ideas how to resolve this?
<cjwatson> socomm: PPAs are generally maintained by their owner (in this case https://launchpad.net/~ondrej), not by us
<cjwatson> Looking at that I guess perhaps https://launchpad.net/~ondrej/+archive/ubuntu/php might be of some use, but I don't really know
<socomm> cjwatson: thank you
<teward> socomm: that PPA you are looking at i think was replaced, by the one cjwatson points at, but you may need some package reinstalls.
<socomm> teward: ah gotcha, thank you
<teward> (I keep a bit of an eye on the PHP PPA every once in a while lol)
<iliv> hi cjwatson. last time we chatted you said I should be using git refs in order to import code for several program versions all located in one git repo. so, I looked around and read up on git refs (not a git expert) and I am wondering which ref type you meant exactly. those are ranging from heads to remotes to tags.
<cjwatson> iliv: heads
<cjwatson> iliv: or just "branches" colloquially (which I maybe should have said in the first place)
<iliv> thought so (it is explicitly mentioned in notes under Repo URL field)
<iliv> okay
<iliv> so if I have multiple versions of the same app in one repo each version has to be in its own branch
<iliv> hmm
<cjwatson> yes
<iliv> is this the only way to do it?
<iliv> oh, and it only applies to bazaar
<cjwatson> given that snapcraft only looks at snapcraft.yaml and doesn't take an option to look at a different file, it's not clear how we would do otherwise really
<cjwatson> and I'm not sure what you mean by "and it only applies to bazaar"
<iliv> I'm reading this: "For imports to Bazaar, the HEAD branch will be imported by default, but you can import different branches by appending ',branch=$name' to the URL. For imports to Git, the entire repository will be imported."
<cjwatson> imports are a red herring
<cjwatson> the exact same properties about branches vs. snapcraft would hold if you were pushing your git repository directly to Launchpad rather than going through code imports
<cjwatson> the description you quote from our UI is about how git and bzr are mapped to each other, but doesn't really have any bearing on how either one interacts with building snaps
<cjwatson> different stages of the process
<cjwatson> iliv: the source URL for your postgresql-snap git-to-git import should literally just be "https://github.com/iliv/postgresql-snap"
<cjwatson> forget all the ,branch= stuff for an import that targets git
<cjwatson> iliv: and definitely don't include /tree/blah on the end
<iliv> I think I tried that first. It didn't work then, it doesn't work now :) I gather because of what you said about branches above. If it's git-to-git  a remote git repo is expected to host just one app (snapcraft.yaml), right?
<cjwatson> No
<iliv> And if it's multiple snapcraft.yaml files, as is true in my case, it has to be git-to-bzr
<cjwatson> Please try it again and then leave it there so I can look at it
<cjwatson> No, that's entirely wrong, sorry
<iliv> oh boy
<iliv> okay
<cjwatson> I've obviously confused you in some way
<cjwatson> It has to be multiple branches, yes, but those multiple branches can reside within a single git repository
<cjwatson> And there is no reason why going via bzr would help matters
<iliv> it worked this time (as you pointed out it should be set up)
<iliv> perhaps I did it differently, after all
<cjwatson> right, so that import is fine, and you can create a snap from either https://code.launchpad.net/~commandpromptinc/postgresql-93/+git/9.3.14/+ref/master or https://code.launchpad.net/~commandpromptinc/postgresql-93/+git/9.3.14/+ref/9.3.14
<cjwatson> though it's oddly named, I'd have called the repository "postgresql-snap" rather than "9.3.14" to match the github repository name
<cjwatson> we need some better defaults here
<iliv> I'm just figuring out how this thing works
<iliv> I'll make sure it is more meaningful when I get a handle on the entire process
#launchpad 2016-11-22
<free> wgrant, cjwatson: hey there, some of you around?
<cjwatson> free: what's up?
<free> cjwatson: hey there
<free> cjwatson: I pushed this MP for the txfixtures package (used by LP two, I guess): https://code.launchpad.net/~free.ekanayaka/txfixtures/sphinx-docs/+merge/311472
<free> cjwatson: there is a few narrative in the MP description, but in short we (Landscape) would like to push a few new features there, that won't affect the existing ones at all. I'm wondering if we could make Landscape (or me) part of the project, to have commit rights
<cjwatson> I think it should be ~lazr-developers
<cjwatson> would that suit you?
<free> cjwatson: sure, thanks
<free> cjwatson: there's also the issue that there's no one in Canonical left with PyPI access to publish txfixtures releases (the owners are Robert Collins, Francis Lacoste and Martin Pool), but I'll get in touch with them for this
<cjwatson> free: done, feel free to land your thing
<cjwatson> free: hm, wgrant went through a big effort to reclaim PyPI access for a bunch of packages but maybe missed that one
<cjwatson> free: Robert has generally been helpful there IIRC
<free> cjwatson: cheers! cool, I'll get in touch with him. We're already in contact for other testing-related things
<cjwatson> free: one minor thing, once you've landed that sphinx MP I'd suggest setting up a webhook to poke RTD to update (assuming RTD is configured to point to the right branch)
<free> cjwatson: yeah we'll need that
<cjwatson> free: it's very easy, go to https://code.launchpad.net/+branch/txfixtures, Manage webhooks, Add webhook, tell it to deliver to https://readthedocs.org/build/txfixtures on Bazaar push
<free> cjwatson: unrelated, but JFY if you recall that old "issue" with txlongpoll, where I introduced a dependency on some yet-to-be-merged txamqp branch, that's going to be solved too, since I finally got a hang on txamqp (maintainership was transferred to me, since the original author can't work on it anymore)
<cjwatson> ah, good
<cjwatson> I still haven't had a chance to sort out the txlongpoll deployment issues we have :-/
<free> cjwatson: yeah, iirc pbr was a problem for LP?
<cjwatson> pbr is a headache
<cjwatson> due to buildout
<free> cjwatson: the two don't play nice together or what?
<cjwatson> buildout doesn't like setup_requires
<free> ah
<cjwatson> the plan is to ditch buildout, but converting 12 years of build system complexity /o\
<free> cjwatson: can't we teach buildout about setup_requires instead? or is that involved?
<cjwatson> appears pretty involved, and converting to modern buildout is nearly as big a change as converting to pip anyway
<free> cjwatson: I see, makes sense
<cjwatson> so might as well convert to pip instead and be on the same tooling as the rest of the modern webdev space
<cjwatson> but I keep inconsiderately having urgent new feature development dropped on me instead ;-)
<free> cjwatson: :/
<free> cjwatson: fwiw I believe a considerable part of Launchpad dependencies is in Debian and relatively well-maintained (and I just submitted an ITP for txfixtures plus uploaded it to NEW)
<cjwatson> we mostly don't use packages
<free> yeah
<cjwatson> but I agree that those parts that are in Debian for whatever reason generally seem to be fairly well-maintained
<sigmavirus> cjwatson: heh, I know that feeling of inconsiderately having new features dropped on you
 * sigmavirus wishes he had free time to help improve launchpad's packaging
<jgdx> hey, I'm getting NOPUBKEY when building https://code.launchpad.net/~jonas-drange/+snap/silo-2194 â anything I can do?\
<phako> hi - looking for help with a PPA that is in dependency wait which I don't understand
<olly> hi, a recent ppa upload for precise i made resulted in an email with "Rejected:" / "Cannot build any of the architectures requested: any all" - the previous upload i made a few months ago doesn't seem to have anything notably different in the _source.changes or .dsc (in particular, the same "any all" arch list) and worked
<olly> and https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas lists precise as supported still
<sarnold> olly: just out of curiosity, what does "any all" mean? I thought one meant "build on amd64 and use for all" and the other meant "build on all architectures"
<olly> the subject line of the reject email seems to provide all the useful details: [~xapian-backports/ubuntu/ppa/precise] xapian-core 1.4.1-1.99precise (Rejected)
<olly> a source package which builds both arch dependent and arch independent binary packages
<sarnold> (back in precise days, the one that meant 'build once and use for all' may still have used i386?)
<sarnold> aha
<olly> not sure "build on X and use everywhere" is the best way to think of "all"
<phako> https://launchpad.net/~yg-jensge/+archive/ubuntu/shotwell-unstable - it waits for libgexiv2-dev 0.10.4 which is also in that PPA - which I don't understand
<sarnold> olly: heh, the debian policy doc is kind of all over the place on it :) no wonder I never understood it: " If all or any appears, that value must be the entire contents of the field" but six paragraphs later "Specifying any all indicates that the source package isn't dependent on any particular architecture."
<sarnold> olly: thanks :)
<olly> i suspect that this change at some point and the first reflects the old state of affairs
<olly> changed
<olly> *changed
<sarnold> yeah
<sarnold> that sounds about right
<olly> indeed, in "Version 3.9.3.0" "Released February, 2012"
<olly> https://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/upgrading-checklist.txt
<olly> and precise is 12.04...
<olly> but this worked in the previous upload
<olly> well, i'll wait and see for now, but might try adjust that and reuploading later
<sarnold> oh cool, I haven't seent his upgrading-checklist.txt before.
<sarnold> pity it doesn't spell out whatever it was that it replaced :)
<olly> fairly sure it used to be "any" for that case (so you couldn't tell as easily if such a source package would built arch all binary packages)
<olly> i've filed a bug against policy
<cjwatson> jgdx: that's https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/1626739, we need to sort that out at our end I'm afraid
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1626739 in Launchpad itself "Snapcraft build failing in Yakkety for unauthenticated stage-packages" [Undecided,New]
<cjwatson> olly: "any all" in a .dsc should be fine - give me a minute
<jgdx> cjwatson, fine, thanks. Subscribed.
<cjwatson> (you wouldn't see that in debian/control, but it's perfectly normal in .dsc files where the source builds a mixture of arch-dep and arch-indep packages)
<cjwatson> olly: could you upload the .dsc somewhere for me?  this should definitely work
<cjwatson> olly: never mind
<cjwatson> olly: this is a super-confusing error message but it's actually because that same version is already in that PPA
<cjwatson> olly: you must have uploaded the bitwise-exact same source package again I guess, which for some reason caused LP to go "I know, I'll just try to create any missing builds for that source package"
<cjwatson> olly: it's weird that there wasn't an earlier and clearer rejection, but the "any all" thing is a red herring
<cjwatson> phako: $ dpkg --compare-versions 0.10.4-0~jensge1~xenial4 ge 0.10.4 && echo yes || echo no
<cjwatson> no
<cjwatson> phako: ^- i.e. the version of libgexiv2-dev you have is not in fact >= 0.10.4 by Debian version comparison rules
<cjwatson> phako: consider using 0.10.4-0jensge1~xenial4 instead (i.e. dropping the first ~)
<cjwatson> iliv: out of curiosity, any reason you keep creating https://code.launchpad.net/~commandpromptinc/postgresql-93/+git/postgresql-snap afresh over and over?
<phako> cjwatson: meh
<phako> thanks
<phako> now that you write that I remember falling in that trap some time ago
<cjwatson> olly,sarnold: FYI the current policy text is correct and does not need to be amended regarding Architecture in debian/control, although the reason for the different specification is maybe a bit subtle.  I followed up to https://bugs.debian.org/845369 explaining why (should appear there shortly)
<ubot5`> Debian bug 845369 in debian-policy "debian-policy: [5.6.8] Not fully updated for "any all"" [Minor,Open]
<cjwatson> sarnold: and yes, the architecture-independent builder for Ubuntu changed from i386 to amd64 in vivid, though that's an implementation detail rather than anything that should be specified in policy
<sarnold> cjwatson: thanks
#launchpad 2016-11-23
<olly> cjwatson: ah "In the main `debian/control' file in the source package" rather than "in the .dsc"
<cjwatson> yep
<olly> agreed then, will follow up shortly and close that
<olly> i don't see in my command history where I uploaded it before, though dput doesn't generate an ".upload" file thanks to the "/" in the "ppa:foo/bar" so it's hard to know for sure from my end
<olly> but the ppa doesn't have the package I tried to upload in it: https://launchpad.net/~xapian-backports/+archive/ubuntu/ppa/+packages
<olly> cjwatson: do you want the dsc to look at?
<cjwatson> olly: no, it was clearish from the log that it was just due to the identical version number
<cjwatson> olly: there's a 1.4.0-4.99precise there, which AFAICS is the one you tried to upload
<cjwatson> grep xapiancjwatson@carob:~$ grep xapian-backports /srv/launchpad.net-logs/production/haetae/lp_queue/process-upload.log
<cjwatson> 2016-11-22 19:10:14 DEBUG   Considering changefile ~xapian-backports/ppa/ubuntu/xapian-core_1.4.1-1.99precise_source.changes
<cjwatson> 2016-11-22 19:10:19 DEBUG     Subject: [~xapian-backports/ubuntu/ppa/precise] xapian-core 1.4.1-1.99precise (Rejected)
<olly> reject message was for:  [~xapian-backports/ubuntu/ppa/precise] xapian-core 1.4.1-1.99precise (Rejected)
<cjwatson> oh, I can't read
<cjwatson> yeah, in that case I'd like to see .changes and .dsc
<cjwatson> (though I may be falling over into bed soon)
<olly> cjwatson: https://survex.com/~olly/xapian-core_1.4.1-1.99precise.dsc https://survex.com/~olly/xapian-core_1.4.1-1.99precise_source.changes
<olly> (i also uploaded for some other codenames in the same command, but those seem to have disappeared without a sound)
<cjwatson> olly: somehow that PPA has ended up being configured to only build for lpia
<cjwatson> which isn't a thing any more
<olly> odd, I'm sure I didn't deliberately do that, and struggle to think how I might have by accident
<cjwatson> olly: go to https://launchpad.net/~xapian-backports/+archive/ubuntu/ppa/+edit, check amd64 and i386, save, try the upload again
<cjwatson> it might have happened if you were editing something else about the PPA and had an accident with keyboard navigation, maybe?
<cjwatson> (at least conceivable)
<cjwatson> it looks like several previous uploads have been accepted but ended up with no builds
<olly> oh i wonder if the last upload was actually built in another ppa and then I copied it here
<olly> so it could have been like this for a while
<olly> anyway, thanks for spotting what's up
<cjwatson> yeah, that could be
<cjwatson> https://launchpad.net/~ojwb/+archive/ubuntu/xapian-1.3
<cjwatson> sorry that took a while to spot due to my misreading of the log entry!
<olly> yeah, then someone pointed out that the 1.3 was confusing
<olly> cjwatson: so should I be able to reupload?  or do I need an upload with different bits, or a new version number?
<cjwatson> you can reupload with the same version in this case, since it was rejected
<olly> cool, thanks
<cjwatson> the version is only burned if it's accepted
<zhipengh> hello, could someone with admin power help me with https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/404209
<cjwatson> zhipengh: done; please update the display name and description and such yourself
<zhipengh> thx cjwatson !
<om26er> Hello! Can I have armhf builds enabled for this ppa please: https://launchpad.net/~autopilot/+archive/ubuntu/1.7
<om26er> cjwatson: ^
<cjwatson> om26er: you can do that yourself, just go to +edit
<om26er> cjwatson: that was simple. Is that a new feature ?
<cjwatson> om26er: some months ago
<nacc> I noticed recently that 'vivid', 'wily' are still 'active' in launchpad's API? Is 'active' the right flag to look at for current development releases (this is for the importer, to determine which -devel refs to create, e.g., trusty-devel, xenial-devel, to help with SRUs)
<iliv> cjwatson, > iliv: out of curiosity, any reason you keep creating ... afresh over and over? // I still can't get it to build a snap package so I tried importing repo with branches and without branches, renamed repo to be more meaningful and such.
<iliv> oh i see
<iliv> I have to request builds
<cjwatson> nacc: it's the right flag; vivid and wily are trailing in terms of being EOLed due to phone and such
<nacc> cjwatson: oh right, thanks!
<cjwatson> nacc: (it might not be completely stupid to special-case them for now ...)
<nacc> cjwatson: yeah, i was considering that, it's probably the right thing to do just to keep it less confusing (it's not wrong, per se, to have -devel branches for them, they'll just go unused)
#launchpad 2016-11-24
<flexiondotorg> cjwatson, I realise opening network access during the snap build phase is a little way out.
<flexiondotorg> Bit here is a bug I raised which you'll be able to close when the time comes.
<flexiondotorg> https://bugs.launchpad.net/snapcraft/+bug/1642281
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1642281 in Snapcraft "Unable to build python based snap on Launchpad" [Undecided,New]
<cjwatson> flexiondotorg: moved to the right place
<mitya57> cjwatson, hi, is it by design that Git recipes do not clone submodules, or that's a bug?
<cjwatson> mitya57: not sure
<cjwatson> possibly a bug
<mitya57> In my case the submodule is on a 3rdparty site (git.gnome.org), not on Launchpad
<mitya57> So if the recipe builders have limited access to outside world, then maybe my chances on getting support for that are low :)
<rbasak> I wonder if you could mirror in the submodule trees, and then somehow tell the recipe where your replacement is.
<caraka> they trip over submodues and gpg sigs at the moment
<mitya57> Yes, I'm thinking of using nest-part as a workaround
<cjwatson> caraka: that's git-to-bzr imports; git-to-git imports don't suffer from that
<cjwatson> caraka: hence also not git recipes
<cjwatson> mitya57: yeah, I think that may actually be the right answer
<mitya57> Ack!
<mitya57> cjwatson, while trying to work around missing submodule support we ran into bug 1644640. I hope *that* is a bug :)
<ubot5`> bug 1644640 in git-build-recipe "Cannot nest-part into an existing directory" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1644640
<mitya57> Can somebody please respond to https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/404131 ? It's upstream developer asking for rights for his projects on LP.
<cjwatson> mitya57: done
<mitya57> Thanks a lot!
<cjwatson> and yes, that git-build-recipe thing seems like a bug though can't look hard now
<mitya57> We have a workaround for now, but in a longer term it would be nice to have a fix
#launchpad 2016-11-25
<cjwatson> mitya57: git-build-recipe isn't that hard to hack on *hint* :-)
<cjwatson> slightly oddly structured mainly just because it's an almost direct translation of bzr-builder
<cjwatson> if it's what I think it is you can probably take the existing "assert not os.path.exists(target_subdir)" and also permit an empty directory
<cjwatson> well, you might need to adjust a couple of things below that; add a case to the test suite
<muktupavels> cjwatson, mitya57: can not git recipe do something like this - https://paste.ubuntu.com/23531161/? at least testing locally works.
<muktupavels> cjwatson, mitya57: https://code.launchpad.net/~albertsmuktupavels/git-build-recipe/+git/git-build-recipe/+merge/311797
<cjwatson> muktupavels: I don't think there's much point; see my comment
<t4nk629> sup
<muktupavels> cjwatson: https://paste.ubuntu.com/23532210/
<cjwatson> muktupavels: something along those lines should work, but it'll need changes in a couple of places - I strongly advise a TDD approach in this case, simulate the failure in the test case first
<kyrofa> The new git mirroring functionality-- how often does it check for updates?
<kyrofa> Ah, 5 hours, got it
#launchpad 2016-11-26
<ProfessorKaos64> I try to enter my fingerprint,but it just rejects it. I have it uploaded to sks-keyservers and just uploaded to ubuntu. It gives an error that it can't import the fingerprint
<ProfessorKaos64> http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=vindex&search=libregeek&fingerprint=on
<ProfessorKaos64> wait nevermind, just took. silly me
#launchpad 2017-11-20
<QwertyChouskie> uh
<QwertyChouskie> INFO Upload was rejected:
<QwertyChouskie> INFO  supertuxkart_0.9.3~build1~ubuntu14.04.1.dsc: Version older than that in the archive. 0.9.3~build1~ubuntu14.04.1 <= 0.9.3-rc1.2~build1~ubuntu14.04.1
<QwertyChouskie> INFO Committing the transaction and any mails associated with this upload.
<QwertyChouskie> How do I convince LP that it actually is a newer version?
<QwertyChouskie> "0.9.3-final~build1"?
<wgrant> QwertyChouskie: "-" is a very special character in Debian package versions; see https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/#s-f-version
<wgrant> Bah
<alkisg> Is there any way to have debhelper 10 in a xenial launchpad ppa build? It's in xenial-backports, but I don't know how to tell the builder to use the backports...
<alkisg> Ah. Maybe if I copy debhelper to my ppa first?
<rbasak> alkisg: you can go to eg. https://launchpad.net/~racb/+archive/ubuntu/experimental/+edit-dependencies but for your own PPA.
<rbasak> and set backports in there.
<alkisg> Ah, thank you rbasak
<oSoMoN> is it possible to transfer ownership of a PPA?
<oSoMoN> (IÂ think not, just wanted to check)
<cjwatson> oSoMoN: no, but you can create a new one and copy everything in from the old one
<oSoMoN> cjwatson, ok, that's what I thought I would do, thanks
<cjwatson> (remember to copy existing binaries)
<rbasak> cjwatson or wgrant: could I have your opinion on bug 1733388 please? I've identified what's going on, but am not sure which component is making the wrong assumption.
<ubot5> bug 1733388 in usd-importer "py.test-3 test discovery hangs when importing ubuntutools.lp.lpapicache Launchpad object" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1733388
 * rbasak will be EOD in the next few minutes though, so no rush.
<cjwatson> rbasak: Well, um, I guess my opinion is that ubuntutools is distressingly and excessively magical.  We don't maintain it though ...
<cjwatson> I mean pytest also contains a lot of magic.  (I prefer less magical test runners.)
 * rbasak isn't entirely sure what benefit use of this gives us over launchpadlib.launchpad. Presumably caching
<cjwatson> I guess it must be.
<cjwatson> I normally only use ubuntutools for its handy question-asking thing in my code.
<cjwatson> One perhaps reasonable fix would be to cause ubuntutools to not do the login thing for attributes that begin with '_'?
<rbasak> I suppose. I'm not very keen on this auto-login-on-getattr behaviour. But perhaps that's fundamental to the module.
<rbasak> OTOH it leads to side-effects such as UI prompts, so perhaps it's bad and it should be explicit.
<rbasak> It seems that I can work around it by not importing the Launchpad object into the module namespace.
<rbasak> So I could just leave the bug open against python3-ubuntutools for now I suppose.
 * rbasak EODs
<cjwatson> Yeah, to me this sort of thing makes it not suitable for general-purpose use.
<pivotal> Are there any existing examples to monitor the PPA build status through a script?
<cjwatson> lp:bileto is the first thing that comes to mind, although it does rather a lot more
<acheronuk> monitor in what sense?
<QwertyChouskie> Help!
<QwertyChouskie> "fatal: ambiguous argument '0.9.3': unknown revision or path not in the working tree."
<wxl> QwertyChouskie: some additional information is going to be useful here.
<QwertyChouskie> It works just fine on a fresh checkout from LP
<QwertyChouskie> But the recipe builder doesn't seem to like it
<QwertyChouskie> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/346497437/buildlog.txt.gz
<QwertyChouskie> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/346499090/buildlog.txt.gz
#launchpad 2017-11-21
<pivotal> Thanks, cjwatson. acheronuk, we'd like to consume the build success/failure with a script in our CI system (green/red). Both success and failure could be scraped from the PPA web site, I suppose.
<wgrant> pivotal: No need to screenscrape. There are APIs for what you need.
<wgrant> eg:
<wgrant> In [5]: [b.title for b in lp.archives.getByReference(reference='~launchpad/ubuntu/ppa').getBuildRecords(build_state='Failed to build')[:2]]
<wgrant> Out[5]:
<wgrant> [u'amd64 build of pg-repack 1.4.2-1~ubuntu16.04.1~ppa1 in ubuntu xenial RELEASE',
<wgrant>  u'i386 build of pg-repack 1.4.2-1~ubuntu16.04.1~ppa1 in ubuntu xenial RELEASE']
<wgrant> Those are the two most recent failed builds in the PPA for Launchpad itself.
<acheronuk> pivotal: yes, but as above. for example Kubuntu uses the API to get build status/logs etc for our QA status pages such as http://qa.kubuntu.co.uk/ppa-status/applications/build_status_17.08.3_bionic.html
<acheronuk> or our CI does it for our development builds
<pivotal> Cool, thanks, looks like that python helper is at https://help.launchpad.net/API/launchpadlib , wgrant?
<wgrant> pivotal: Yep. If you're on Ubuntu, you can install lptools and ipython and run "lp-shell production devel" to fiddle around with it
#launchpad 2017-11-22
<Saviq> hi all, could we please have ppa:mir-team/{dev,rc,release} devirtualized? we'd like to run the dpkg checks on all arches and they fail under qemu
<Saviq> release and rc won't have much traffic, dev will probably be built once or twice a day
<cjwatson> Saviq: Err, qemu isn't involved in any Launchpad builds.
<cjwatson> Saviq: Hasn't been for a year or two now.
<Saviq> cjwatson: oh ok so is there a notion of virtualized and devirt PPAs at all?
<Saviq> or is this just us remembering the olden days?
<cjwatson> Saviq: There is, but it's only relevant for the couple of architectures that aren't yet quite supported in scalingstack (powerpc and s390x)
<cjwatson> We have staging s390x builders up in scalingstack, so shouldn't be too desperately long.  Do you need s390x?
<Saviq> cjwatson: no, I think we can do away with the defaults then
<Saviq> cjwatson: thanks, will report back if we need it after all
<xnox> Saviq, note you do need to self-toggle on the other optinal arches, arm64 armhf ppc64el, unless not enabled already in the ppa settings.
 * xnox ponders if you mean xen builders with old kernels -> all of that got ripped out eons ago /pre-alphabet wrap/
<Saviq> xnox: ack, thanks
 * tsimonq2 is excited for s390x to come to PPAs, will make my life easier...
<tsimonq2> cjwatson: Are we talking a matter of days, weeks, months? ;))
#launchpad 2017-11-23
<acheronuk> x86 builders don't look well again. lots of 'cleaning'
<cjwatson> acheronuk: no time to investigate properly, but stabbed
<Ionic> hum, I'm having strange build errors
<Ionic> https://code.launchpad.net/~x2go/+archive/ubuntu/ppa/+recipebuild/1488778 (more specifically https://code.launchpad.net/~x2go/+archive/ubuntu/ppa/+recipebuild/1488778/+files/buildlog.txt.gz - but affecting all Ubuntu series anyway) seems to want to checkout a git revision out of the bzr branch that doesn't exist and I have no idea where this might be coming from
<cjwatson> It's probably a ghost revision - i.e. something that's listed as the parent of some revision, but that doesn't itself exist
<cjwatson> Can't seem to reproduce it by branching it locally though
<Ionic> the builders all run into that though; I made sure to re-run an import and check the upstream git repository for the commit SHA (which doesn't exist), so no idea what's going on there
<cjwatson> The reason it's talking about git is that this branch was constructed using bzr-git
<Ionic> right, I know that
<cjwatson> I'm pretty confused too.  But is it worth just converting this to a git recipe build rather than wrestling with it?
<Ionic> probably, since the upstream repository is a git repo anyway, though I guess there's no easy way to convert an existing repository to a different type (short of adding a new one + removing the old bzr branch)
<cjwatson> no, just push/import it
<cjwatson> the namespaces (mostly) don't overlap
<Ionic> then again, I can't seem to find any link to import a new repository, hum
<cjwatson> Ionic: https://help.launchpad.net/Code/Git#Mirroring_repositories_from_other_sites
<Ionic> yes... it looks like the only option is to request an import (no 2)
<cjwatson> if you want to push a new repository that only exists on LP, then you can just git push to an appropriate URL
<cjwatson> but if it already exists somewhere else, then an import is more appropriate
<Ionic> given that it's a clone of our upstream repository, an import makes most sense
<Ionic> hum, it looks like git repository imports are not working like bazaar branches, but instead... are global to a project or team
<cjwatson> Ionic: I think you misunderstand something, but I'm not exactly sure what.  Do you have an example?
<Ionic> well, I seem to only be able to set the repository as backing a project... and that's not something I'd like to do with a code from a different project we're merely using as a dependency
<Ionic> c.f., there's a "configure code" link on https://code.launchpad.net/x2go - but that's global for the whole project
<cjwatson> Ionic: Looks like you only read half of the link that I gave you above.
<cjwatson> Ionic: "2. This method is useful for other cases, such as importing repositories that are not the primary upstream repository for a project"
<cjwatson> Ionic: Imports created in that way are not set to be the project default repository
<cjwatson> Ionic: The "Configure code" link is option 1 on that page.
<Ionic> right, I was confused because the code import page essentially queries the same data as the configure code page, I was probably wrong to assume it's doing the same thing
<cjwatson> It indeed does not.
<cjwatson> (not exactly; it's similar)
<cjwatson> Looks like you created https://code.launchpad.net/~x2go/x2go/+git/python-wsgilog_master but then deleted it?
<cjwatson> Oh, just renamed.
<cjwatson> https://code.launchpad.net/~x2go/x2go/+git/python-wsgilog looks reasonable.
<Ionic> yep, I created that, then deleted it, and now re-created as a proper import
<Ionic> yep
<Ionic> thanks, I'll have to see how the recipe takes it after the initial import :)
<Saviq> hey guys, is it possible to prune PPAs up? say, https://launchpad.net/~mir-team/+archive/ubuntu/release/+packages has 7 source packages at 8MB, but almost 1k binaries at 6GB (for a 2GB-limited PPA that's quite a bit...), or should we ignore the size warning?
<cjwatson> Saviq: Most of it's mir-test-tools-dbgsym I suspect
<cjwatson> Saviq: I've bumped your quota a bit
<Ionic> yeah, and it looks like a build directly from this newly imported git repository worked fine
<Ionic> I guess I'll just drop the bzr branch for good
<cjwatson> good good
<Ionic> thank you again :)
<cjwatson> np
<Saviq> cjwatson: well, we'll fill it up soon enough anyway, are superseded binaries never pruned from PPAs?
<cjwatson> Saviq: They're pruned roughly nightly
<cjwatson> Saviq: Since just one instance of mir-test-tools-dbgsym is ~300MB, multiplying that by series and architectures accounts for most of the size you mentioned without having to theorise a pruning bug
<Saviq> aha
<Saviq> cjwatson: can you bump ppa:mir-team/dev and /rc, too, then? thanks
<cjwatson> (actually every six hours I think)
<cjwatson> Saviq: done
<Saviq> thanks
<rbasak> Does Launchpad use celery or something else? ISTR a different task runner name but I don't remember what it was.
<cjwatson> rbasak: celery, with a variety of other bits and pieces glued above and below and on the side
<rbasak> OK, thanks
<cjwatson> rbasak: things you might be thinking of include ampoule and lazr.jobrunner
<rbasak> Those don't ring a bell. But I may be mistaken entirely.
<rbasak> But celery is the answer I was looking for, thanks.
<rbasak> (though I might still try to avoid it as I don't want more infrastructure dependencies)
#launchpad 2017-11-26
<LyzardKing> Hi! I have an issue with the launchpad build. It was supposed to finish in 10 minutes, but it's been three hours...
<LyzardKing> Is the delay only because of the build score? The time goes from 11 to 9 minutes, then back to 11
<LyzardKing> Now it's back at 15 minutes...
<LyzardKing> This is the repo: https://code.launchpad.net/~lyzardking/+recipe/ubuntu-make-daily
<cjwatson> LyzardKing: Looks like a fair percentage of our build farm got stuck at some point over the weekend.  I've poked it, so it should clear the queue soon.
<LyzardKing> cjwatson: Thanks! I couldn't figure out what the issue is... It went back up to 20 minutes...Now it seems to be back down...
<cjwatson> You'll get that sort of effect when the build farm isn't keeping up.
<LyzardKing> Now the build was processed, but it failed with: FileNotFoundError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/sbuild-nonexistent/.profile'
<cjwatson> The times are estimates based on guesses at how long each build job is likely to take and how many builders Launchpad thinks are running; one of the ways in which it can be grossly inaccurate is if some builders have got into a state where LP thinks they're in the process of resetting between jobs but they're actually stuck.
<LyzardKing> It failed running a test...Do I have to do something particular to get a .profile file in the build?
<cjwatson> That sounds like something in your build is assuming that $HOME exists.  You mustn't assume that in a build.
<LyzardKing> cjwatson: good to know
<cjwatson> Need to fix the code, perhaps by having the test in question create a temporary directory and temporarily set HOME to point to that.
<cjwatson> That's a good thing to do, because it isolates your tests from whatever might happen to be in the home directory of the person running the tests.
<cjwatson> People don't generally want the process of running some package's tests to fiddle with their dotfiles ...
<LyzardKing> Ah, ok... It was done like this by the previous maintainer (And it hasn't been changed since)...But maybe he did something in the build recipe(?)
<LyzardKing> I'll have to check that...
<cjwatson> LyzardKing: It's probably always been a bug in this package, but we only changed the builders to set HOME to a nonexistent directory in late August / early September or so.
<cjwatson> LyzardKing: ... intentionally in order to catch this kind of bug.
<LyzardKing> Ah ok! (Is it possible to simulate a launchpad build on my system? So I can test this before triggering another build?
<cjwatson> LyzardKing: Using sbuild will be pretty close
<cjwatson> LyzardKing: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SimpleSbuild
<LyzardKing> cjwatson: Thanks! The ubuntu-make ppa is live now!
<cjwatson> LyzardKing: oh good
<KeithW> Hi folks -- Imports from Git seem to be failing if the repository contains signed commits. (See https://code.launchpad.net/~keithw/mosh/trunk)
<KeithW> Is this a known issue? Is there a mitigation we should try?
<hloeung> importing from Git to Bzr?
<KeithW> Yeah.
<hloeung> yeah, it's known
<hloeung> LP also has the ability to import from Git to Git
<KeithW> It does now -- we haven't touched this import since 2011.
<hloeung> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bzr-git/+bug/1084403
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1084403 in bzr-git (Ubuntu) "no support for gpgsig tags" [High,Triaged]
<KeithW> It looks like the best approach for us is just to move the Launchpad repository from Bzr to Git and then regenerate all of the recipes so they continue to supply the same PPAs. :-(
<wgrant> The recipe is just a single line, isn't it?
<wgrant> So should be nice and easy to port.
<wgrant> The biggest issue will be the version template.
<KeithW> Yeah, and we have two recipes (each feeding one PPA) that I don't want to screw up.
<wgrant> Hm, I only see one recipe on that branch.
<wgrant> Oh, a stable branch too.
<KeithW> Right now the recipe is # bzr-builder format 0.3 deb-version {debupstream}+{revno}-0ppa
<KeithW> I wonder if we can get that {revno} from a Git repository? Obviously I want to make sure the new version numbers are > the old version numbers.
<hloeung> maybe something like 'git rev-list --all | wc -l' ?
<hloeung> not sure how that'll be done in a recipe though
<KeithW> While I'm here, is it possible to redirect a PPA? We have a lot of subscribers to ppa:keithw/mosh, and it would be nice to start hosting the packages at ppa:mosh/mosh or something like that.
<wgrant> KeithW: There's no way to redirect a PPA. As for the version, see https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/SourceBuilds/Recipes#Version_numbers_and_substitution_variables: we've implemented revno for git just like it works for bzr, but it's not really a concept that exists in git so you might want to consider changing your template.
<wgrant> (even if redirection was allowed, it would get pretty complicated because of keys etc.)
<KeithW> Thanks much. I'm a bit nervous about changing the template (especially for an "emergency" fix), given the consequences of a mistake, but let us think about it...
#launchpad 2018-11-19
<dcoles> Is there any way to check the PPA upload status. I pushed to ppa:dcoles/gentoo-openssh about an hour ago -- dput reports it uploaded, but nothing on https://launchpad.net/~dcoles/+archive/ubuntu/gentoo-openssh and no email in inbox or spam.
<hloeung> dcoles: hmm, you sure you uploaded it there?
<hloeung> dcoles: there's nothing about building or built, so either it was uploaded wrong place or was rejected (ssh key used to sign?)
<hloeung> err s/ssh/gpg/
<dcoles> `dput ppa:dcoles/gentoo-openssh gentoo-openssh_7.9p1-0ubuntu1_amd64.changes`
<dcoles> It's possible I uploaded my gpg key after the dput, but the key is registered now.
<dcoles> I tried to repush, but get told "Package has already been uploaded to ppa on ppa.launchpad.net".
<hloeung> yeah, I htink it got rejected due to wrong key
<hloeung> remove the local .uploaded file
<hloeung> and it should have sent you an e-mail about it being rejected... either it's caught in some spam filter or being deferred due to mail volume
<dcoles> hloeung: Thanks! Didn't know about the .upload file.
<hloeung> np
<dcoles> Great! Just got a rejection email for that attempt (mixed upload). Thanks for your help.
<hloeung> ah ha
<hloeung> oh look, it's there now
<dcoles> hloeung: Yup! Just needed to push the source-only package. :)
<mvo> hey, can I help with https://code.launchpad.net/~mvo/ubuntu-archive-publishing/sync-cnf-metadata/+merge/356117 in some way?  I guess we should limit it (initially?) to disco only but I would love to see this moving forward
#launchpad 2018-11-21
<andyrock> hey all! why is ubuntu/cosmic branch listed here https://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/log/?h=ubuntu/cosmic but not here: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/+git/gnome-control-center
<cjwatson> https://wiki.canonical.com/InformationInfrastructure/OSA/LPHowTo/RescanBranchesAndRefreshDiffs
<cjwatson> (internal, sorry)
<cjwatson> repository owners can do the "rescanning branches" bit of that
<andyrock> thx
<ssbarnea|bkp2> does anyone know if launchpad supports custom fields for bugs? i am wondering if I can use a field for saving  log-matching-expression (like a regex).
<rbasak> It does not.
<rbasak> You can edit the bug description though, which is free form text.
#launchpad 2018-11-22
<acheronuk> looks like builder status on https://launchpad.net/builders/ has stopped updating? in that should have finished are just stuck at showing finished at end of the build log but are not going on to completing/uploading and doing another build
<cjwatson> Yeah, just got a similar report on an internal channel
<cjwatson> Sorting it out
<cjwatson> Should be unstuck now
<ahasenack> hi, can an launchpad-op remove the ubuntu-server review slot from https://code.launchpad.net/~ahasenack/ubuntu/+source/symfony/+git/symfony/+merge/359137 ?
<ahasenack> it was added by mistake, and now every comment in that mp is spamming ubuntu-server-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com
<cjwatson> I can't
<cjwatson> you either need to resubmit the MP, or somebody in the ubuntu-server team can claim the review for that slot
#launchpad 2018-11-25
<mhsabbagh> Hello, I am interested in the download stats for my PPA on launchpad. Googleing led me to many Python scripts besides the official Launchpad API, however, there's a problem that the download counts are the same for all the different distros.
<mhsabbagh> For example, I am getting: bionic: 8354, trusty: 8644, artful: 8644
<mhsabbagh> But these numbers don't make sense. It sounds to me like there's a bug
<mhsabbagh> Converted it to a question, if anybody answers later: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/676360
