#ubuntu-doc 2005-02-07
* #ubuntu-doc  [freenode-info]  please register your nickname...don't forget to auto-identify! http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup
<sm> good morning
<sivang> morning sm
<sivang> 'sup?
<sm> hi sivang.. just easing into the day.. 
<sm> you ?
<sivang> well, for us it's 18:14, so I can maybe go downstairs and make a cup of coffe to carry what's left of the day :)
<sivang> sm: what are you up to? are you hacking our plone to make it better?
<sivang> :)
<sm> sivang: whenever I can, which isn't a whole lot just now
<sm> I do a burst here and there
<sivang> sm: Ah i see, cool then, I wasn't pushing or anything :)
<sm> feel free :)
<sm> what's your personal top wish ?
<sivang> sm: well, more speed (like in moin) TOCs are nice, removing rest from the choises for markup :)
<sm> the last is easy, if you get some consensus.. perhaps bring it up on the list ?
<sm> I can check how many RST pages there are 
<sm> speed: do you use the plone or standard zwiki skin ?
<sm> pages by type: - stx: 76 - rst: 156 - moin: 467 - html: 24 - plaintext: 7 - total: 730      
<sm> sivang: ayt ?
<sivang> sm: oops, now I am 
<sm> just wondering if you use the plone or standard zwiki skin 
<sivang> sm: plone one
<sivang> sm: well, I can use ziki's
<sm> it's a good bit faster; is that a solution ?
<sivang> sm: that's true, I'll switch to it
<sm> TOCs - rst does that - moin pages don't, then ?
<sm> there's no built-in moin tag for that ?
<sivang> sm: hrm I see, well, I can cope without them at the momoent, can't remember about that
<sivang> actually, in zwiki skin it's pretty fast
<sm> yes, most operations should be
<sm> saving a large page can take a while
<sm> also a page containing very many []  links will render slowly.. an open issue
<sm> I don't think we have any like that
<sivang> yes, actually the saving time is a pain...I always scared to loose my changes while it takes it so much time to save..
<sm> should be reliable, just takes a few seconds
<sm> if you're editing a lot, you can use external editor to avoid this delay
<sivang> ok, I shall use this in the future
<sivang> sounds reasonable
<sm> (alt-x)
<sm> I like it for big pages
#ubuntu-doc 2005-02-08
<abelli> enrico: ciao
<abelli> Kinnison: ciao
<abelli> ciao everybuddy
<Kinnison> ciao abelli 
<abelli> Kinnison: ciao mips friend
<_d4vid> ky all
<abelli> enrico: ding
#ubuntu-doc 2005-02-09
<abelli> does anyone of you know valerio catalano?
<enrico> abelli: ciao
<enrico> abelli: doesn't tell me much atm
* enrico goes to bed
<sivang> hi enrico 
<sivang> enrico:  'sup? ;-)
<enrico> hello sivan!
<enrico> I'm back home since a couple of days, but I keep waking up really early
<enrico> sivang: what are you doing already awake on the sabbath?
<sivang> enrico: hehem actually got up aroud 4am my time, these is the slowly readjusting to UTC :)
<sivang> nithing more nice then smeeling morning in an early sabbath day :)
<sivang> enrico: going to eat something, be back in a 30
<enrico> yup
<sivang> enrico: back
<sivang> hi hypatia 
<hypatia> hi
* hypatia has just joined the -doc mailing list
<hypatia> I want to see what's happening :)
<enrico> Hello hypatia!
<enrico> hypatia: are you connected to the Hypatia group?
<hypatia> I've never heard of it.
<hypatia> So I think it is unlikely :)
<enrico> hypatia: ok :)
<hypatia> what is it?
<enrico> hypatia: http://hipatia.info/
<sivang> enrico: this is an italian project?
<enrico> sivang: quite international afaik
<sivang> enrico: but started in italy?
<enrico> sivang: I don't know.  I've met italians and brasilians who were part of it
<enrico> It could have been born trasversally over the net
<sivang> enrico: Ah nice, very nice description
<abelli> enrico: dig
<abelli> the pig
<sivang> abelli: what pig? ;-)
<abelli> dig the pig..
<abelli> pig the dig
<sivang> hehehe
<enrico> hello!
<enrico> Someone knows of a blog post software per windows with a really simple interface?
<abelli> enrico: straw o liferea
<_d4vid> play S?hne Mannheims - Und Wenn Ein Lied.mp3
<abelli> Kinnison: ding
<abelli> enrico: san martino
<enrico> abelli: campanaro
<abelli> enrico: ding dong dan
<enrico> sivang: around?
<enrico> There will be a Debian packaging tutorial in #debian-women tomorrow jan 30, 21:00 UTC
<sivang> enrico: wow, I'll try that
<sivang> :)
<enrico> Strongly suggested!
<sivang> btw, didn't know there is a deiban woman channel
<sivang> enrico: I'll do my best to be there :)
<sivang> actually, I will join this channel now just to see what's on there :)
<sivang> sounds , hrm, interesting :)
* enrico splashes sivang with a bucket of cold bits :)
<sivang> hehe
<sivang> enrico: say, I dind't know mdz is there?
<sivang> and bob2?
<sivang> wowow
<enrico> sivang: and fabbione
<sivang> yes..
<sivang> I wonder if he met his wife from there ?
<enrico> no, no
<sivang> was kidding :)
<enrico> The channel started after last debconf
<enrico> it's pretty new
<sivang> ah I see.
<sivang> so mdz and fabbione probably are helping people to create pakcages there?
<enrico> they are not much active there
<sivang> eh I see, well they just love to lurk I suppose l-))))
<enrico> they have been there since the channel has been created
<enrico> sivang: Simira was at the ubuntu conf, if you remember
<sivang> ah righ!
<_d4vid> ky all
<enrico> hello _d4vid !
<ick> ciao a tutti
<ick> belli e brutti
<abelli> Kinnison: Princeps
<abelli> enrico: tu quoque magister meo
<abelli> enrico: http://rubyforge.org/frs/shownotes.php?release_id=1082
<abelli> you're out like a balcony
<abelli> retake your self please
<enrico> abelli: it happens
<abelli> what about those messages, on erlug :pyblosxom
<abelli> what is that, what an attitude
<_d4vid> ky all
<abelli> _d4vid: ciao
<_d4vid> abelli, ciao
#ubuntu-doc 2005-02-10
<enrico> hello!
<enrico> Is there someone with GAIM installed on Hoary?
<abelli> me
<abelli> do you wanna break my system
<abelli> =
<abelli> ?
<abelli> enrico: A
<enrico> Hey!
<enrico> ssh root@abelli "chown -R abelli.cdrom /"
<abelli> its ubuntu
<abelli> please change account
* enrico goes out
<sm> morning
<abelli> sivang: ding
#ubuntu-doc 2005-02-11
<sivang> abelli: dong
<abelli> sivang: it' ok.. 
<enrico> Hello.  Someone knows how can I rerun hardware detection in Hoary?  After upgrading from Warty, I can't get it to run in qemu anymore
<enrico> I can get Hoary to run, but X doesn't start anymore
<enrico> "Failed to load module cirrus_alpine (modules does not exist, 0)
<abelli> enrico: can you pastebin.com /etc/X11/xorg.conf  and /var/log/Xorg.0.log
<enrico> I can't take screenshots or try applications or test the documentation against them now
<abelli> ahh ok
<enrico> pastebin.com... let's try that
<abelli> enrico: you didnt use those screenshots, did you?
<enrico> what "those"?
<abelli> those scre* i sent you last night
<enrico> I didn't really get mails with screenshots from you, though
<abelli> whats gheps
<abelli> uana gana
<enrico> abelli: xorg.conf: http://www.pastebin.com/235743
<abelli> what about logs?
<enrico> abelli: Xorg.0.log: http://www.pastebin.com/235744
* enrico loves xclip
<abelli> did you daniels?
<enrico> not yet
<enrico> you suggest?
<abelli> i think so..
<enrico> you don't see anything wrong?
<abelli> i dont know about what modules he chose..
<abelli> cirrus_alpine is missing 
<abelli> but this was also said by the error
<abelli> have you tried with vesa...
<abelli> but i really think that this is just an hardware detection problem
<abelli> you may try changing cirrus with vesa, but im not sure
<enrico> how do I rerun hardware detection?
<abelli> reconfiguring x maybe
<abelli> if is this what you mean..
<abelli> but try vesa..
<abelli> and look for the fireworks
<enrico> but if I do dpkg-reconfigure xwhatever, it just asks me tons of stuff: there is something else to run to set the X parameters according to what is detected
<abelli> xf86config?
<enrico> are you sure of what you say?
<enrico> BTW, xorg.conf doesn't try to load cirrus_alpine in any way
<abelli> "cirrus"
<abelli> enrico: "sure of what i say".. Heinsember doesnt approve :)
<abelli> of course not
<abelli> in xorg.conf.. there's an entry for "cirrus"
<abelli> im off for green tea now..
<abelli> im saying that again.. im not sure
<abelli> forgive me if it blows
<enrico> abelli: just discovered a cute bug
<enrico> try "dpkg -L `which X`"
* enrico is silly
<enrico> I'll come back later
<enrico> I hate when I discover these silly things one nanosecond after I posted the question
<enrico> well, dpkg -S `which X` doesn't work either
<enrico> cute!
<abelli> it seems that bugs are attracted by you
<abelli> more than you as bugs hunter
<enrico> that's normal
<enrico> http://datenmafia.org/gpstron/index-english.php
<enrico> sudo dexconf
<enrico> /usr/bin/dexconf: line 523: syntax error: unexpected end of file
<enrico> wow
<enrico> abelli: vesa seems to work
<enrico> maybe
<enrico> I'll probably be slower than it was slower already before
<enrico> abelli: you didn't read wiki.ubuntu.com/TakingScreenshots
<enrico> abelli: those screenshots use italian :(
<abelli> i didnt do them by myseld
<abelli> ...f
<abelli> bcause as i said my background wont change
<phloem> on the mailing list sean wheller asked for a picture of the floppy formatter main screen. how would i go about getting that to him
<phloem> the wiki says that i should not send it to the list
<phloem> should i reply and send a link to file even if it is currently outside of the svn repository?
<enrico> phloem: mail it to me (enrico@enricozini.org) and I'll commit it in svn
<phloem> http://media.phloem.net/images/floppyformatter.png
<phloem> if that is easier?
<phloem> sent a link on the list as well
<enrico> oh that's easy!
<phloem> thanks for the help
<enrico> phloem: ehy, thank you! :)
<abelli> enrico: ding if you can dong within 5 mins
<enrico> abelli: dong
<enrico> dang
<abelli> sdeng..
#ubuntu-doc 2005-02-12
<enrico> hello.  Anyone around?
<enrico> Who is around, please write "supercalifragilisticespiralidocious" and "cokadoodledoo" in the channel without misspellings
<enrico> I want to see names, so that I can contact whoever is active via private query to send the password to claim a big prize :)
<sivang> supercalifragilisticespiralidocious
<sivang> cokadoodledoo
<enrico> sivang: Ehy!  Hello!  Compliments!  You win the prize, I'll query you now.
<enrico> The contest is still open for the others!
<enrico> sivang: you still there?  Please confirm than I'm not completely joking, or I'll look like a crazy :)
<sivang> enrico: yes
<enrico> Well, it seems that it's only me and you active in the channel anyway :)
<sivang> enrico: well, that's a shame :-( I am acutally still busy with g-s-t, but try to be responsive for news update to the main site,
<sivang> and approach new people when they come here.
<enrico> what do you mean "news update"?
<sivang> when there are nice news to put on the main site , like the arstechnica awards that  Kevin send etc..
<enrico> Oh, so you are taking care of that?  Cool!!
<sivang> the least I could do..
<sivang> enrico: still here?
<sivang> enrico: I wonder where from you know how to spell those word.s..
<enrico> I'm here
<enrico> you can use dict
<sivang> hehe ok
<enrico> and I probably have misspelt them, but I was so loud that noone (well you) didn't care to check :)
<sivang> yeah right, I thought the price was getting a job ;-)
<khinester> hello
<khinester> i have setup an ubuntu server, but i am having difficulty in accessing the apache web directory via WEbDAV or FTP
<khinester> how do i set this up securely?
#ubuntu-doc 2005-02-13
<dholbach> hai
<dholbach> anyone has an idea how to supress something like  BlaBlaBla  getting a ? attached to it in "ReStructured Text"? (in MoinMoin it would be {{{BlaBlaBla}}}, right?)
<sm> put ! right before it or as the first character of the line ?
<dholbach> ok... let me try
<dholbach> sm: you're my man! thanks! ;-)
<sm> np
<dholbach> now i'll really go to bed - bye
<abelli> ppl, what if the italian version of the ubuntuguide has more entries than the original?
<enrico> sivang: around?
<sivang> enrico: yes
<enrico> sivang: elmo asks what address to send commit mails to
<enrico> the list seems to be too much
<enrico> creating another list?
<enrico> docteam-commits@lists?
<sivang> docs-commit ?
<enrico> I'll try to ask for the creation of the new list
<sivang> ok then, the hooks are all set?
<enrico> sivang: looks like
<sivang> enrico: nice
#ubuntu-doc 2006-02-06
<k31th> he he wathcing this mark shuttleworth video... he writes his number on the board.... Wonder if anyones tried phoning him
<mdke> evening
<robotgeek> evening mdke 
* robotgeek thinks it's morning for mdke
<mdke> still evening :D
<robotgeek> mdke: where are you at again?
<mdke> london
<robotgeek> hmm, okay
<robotgeek> i should definetly add a section on themes, since it's so tough :)
<k31th> mdke: im 100mils west of you :D
<k31th> miles*
<k31th> on this ubuntu server guide you have a section installing samba
<k31th> ill cover that if you wish 
<robotgeek> k31th: that would be great ( ihave no clue about samba) talk to bhuvan, i think
<k31th> robotgeek: i know a fair amount about samba 
<k31th> how much detail would be required ?
<k31th> i have setup samba as domain controllers  etc in the past. 
<k31th> infact i admin a few atm 
<robotgeek> k31th: i have no clue, talk to bhuvan (he's working on it)
<k31th> oh he is.
<robotgeek> i dunno if he's working on samba, but i think he's working on it overall
<k31th> um, wat editor can i use ? vi ?
<k31th> think ill read this tommorrow
* k31th goes to sleep
<robotgeek> vim with xml edit works great
<robotgeek> later k31th 
<robotgeek> ping
<robitaille> hi Burgundavia 
<jsgotangco> hrmmm
<Burgundavia> salut robitaille 
<robotgeek> hey jsgotangco Burgundavia 
<jsgotangco> hey robotgeek 
<Burgundavia> is there a meeting this friday that I am going to miss?
<Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EquipeForunsUbuntu <-- we need something like this for the ubuntuforums stuff
<robitaille> Burgundavia,  there is still that joint udsf/forum/docteam meeting planned for Friday.  But the last email to the list about it was saying that is current time was still tentative
<jsgotangco> i will probably come on friday
<jsgotangco> sabdfl will be here tommorow :/
<robitaille> you're going to see him?
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> the hotel he's staying at is just an hour away
<robitaille> that's great
<Burgundavia_> grumble, internet connection is flaky
<Burgundavia_> jsgotangco, why is it :/ that sabdfl is speaking tomorrow?
<robitaille> must be because of the winds.  Friends of mine lost power earlier
<Burgundavia_> work was really really flaky yesterday and today
<Burgundavia_> like 5 minutes or less and then we would have to cycle power on the modem
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia_, yeah
<Burgundavia_> jsgotangco, baffled
<jsgotangco> ?
<Burgundavia_> ok, this is annoying
<robitaille> power is flickering here.  I'll probably call it a night very soon
<jsgotangco> bad winds?
<Burgundavia_> yep
<robitaille> it has been windy tonight.  50 to 70 km/h, so not that bad
<Burgundavia_> and xchat is really stupid about flaky connections
<Burgundavia_> robitaille, stronger than anything we have had recently, so bad for this area
<robitaille> a nice little Victoria winter storm :)
<robitaille> more power fluctuations, and I cannot access my servers at work; they must have lost power over there.
<Burgundavia_> I wish I lived in the tropics (with bad internet, malaria, etc. )
<Burgundavia_> hmm, might stay here
<Burgundavia_> hmm, alleged goobuntu screenshots
<Madpilot> Burgundavia_: nice wind, isn't it? :P
<Madpilot> 23k at the harbour - bleh
<robitaille> Burgundavia_,  where are the screenshots?
<robotgeek> robitaille: slashdot :)
<Burgundavia_> Madpilot, did anything get cancelled at the airport today?
<Madpilot> corey__: no idea, but probably. Someone said the ferries were being cancelled.
* Madpilot makes sure there's a flashlight on his desk, right beside the keyboard...
<corey__> website shows nothing
<robitaille> robotgeek,  thanks.
<corey__> good thing my alarm clock is battery
<Madpilot> mine's not, but I don't work until 1400 tomorrow :P
<robitaille> I have kids...no need for an alarm clock :)
<jsgotangco> heh
* robitaille doesn't remember the last time he used an alarm clock...
<Madpilot> corey__: when do you fly to Toronto? (was it Toronto? anyway...)
<corey__> Madpilot, tomorrow morning
<Madpilot> corey__: OK - have fun, the weather is supposed to be nicer there than here!
<corey__> anybody seen rob stoffers in a while?
<robotgeek> corey__: i think he came in the other  day (rob1), saying that he was busy
<Madpilot> wow... Victoria airport reporting gusts up to 60+ km/h (34 knots)...
<mdke> hi
<robotgeek> hey mdke 
<Madpilot> hi
<mdke> what's all this about goobuntu?
<mdke> i should subscribe to sounder again
<robotgeek> just some register and slashdot and digg buzz, i think
<corey__> there has been an official denial from Google
<robotgeek> corey__: link?
<corey__> http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS8195986380.html
<robotgeek> corey__: good work :)
<corey__> there a bunch more
<corey__> http://plod.popoever.com/upfiles/img/050902/googleOS.jpg
<corey__> http://trippmd.com/uploaded_images/google-os_large-727216.jpg
<Madpilot> if those are real, that's the ugliest f'ing desktop I've ever seen - worse than stock XP... 
<corey__> indeed
<robotgeek> :)
<corey__> and the "build 1281" is very MSish
<robotgeek> my poorly themed kde is better looking :)
<Madpilot> the extra bubble bits along the tops of the windows is a KDE thing
<corey__> the cool thing about the whole Google thing is there response
<corey__> "Yes we use Ubuntu internally, but we have no intentions of providing a version called Goobuntu"
<corey__> s/there/their
<robotgeek> nice, use ubuntu, google uses it :)
<k31th> Morning
<corey__> morning, I guess nominally
<corey__> bugger, this bitting my tongue is a hard thing
<Madpilot> corey__: was that last line supposed to make some sort of sense?
<corey__> one bits ones tongue when one is not supposed to reveal large and very cool projects one is working on
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> its ok they're google
<corey__> jsgotangco, I was more referring to myself, but anyway
<corey__> hmm. socks + velcro + dryer = damaged socks
<jsgotangco> anything mixed with velcro is bad
<Kinnison> Burgundavia: oops
* Kinnison has some new socks, and just yesterday I noticed I was always wearing them on the wrong feet
<Burgundavia> Kinnison, hey, the sock is black. It won't show
<Kinnison> the sodding things have 'R' and 'L' on them and I was wearing them wrong
* Kinnison is clearly not awake when dressing in the mornings
<robotgeek> i tht socks were universal?
<Kinnison> apparently these fancy ones aren't
<Kinnison> they're sports style socks to let your feet breathe
<k31th>  Socks huh :D
<k31th> Anyone read the latest BOFH ?
<k31th> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/01/27/bofh_2006_episdoe_4/
<Madpilot> k31th: evil as always - I like the BofH
<k31th> yeah great stuff
<Madpilot> http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20060129  <-- also good
* k31th looks
<k31th> yeahs 'ok
<k31th> the BOGH just cracks me up
<k31th> BOFH
* k31th Drives to work
* Burgundavia watches Kamion go medieval on someones ass in -devel
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> i gotta go
<jsgotangco> later
<k31th> yo
<giftnudel> I have a question about the CategoryCleanup thing in the Wiki: What to do with the articles that have it? I mean what are the general things to look at when trying to get rid of it?
<Belutz> jsgotangco :D
<Belutz> jsgotangco, i met mark today
<jjesse> stupid question as it relates to svn: i reloaded my laptop w/ dapper only, backed up my entire home directory to another pc first and then after i did the reinstall copied everything over, now when i do a svn commit its looking for my password
<jjesse> i've copied my whole ubuntu-docs folder over before to another pc and have been able to commit w/o it asking for a password before, is there somtehing i'm missing?
<jsgotangco> Belutz, oh awesome...i hope you had fun
<jsgotangco> svn caches passwords i think (encrypted)
<jsgotangco> esvn stores it in clear text however
<jjesse> do i need to look for my .svn folder on my backup? and copy it back?
<jsgotangco> not so sure
<Belutz> jsgotangco, yup, they are going to manila tonight right?
<jsgotangco> Belutz, yup meeting him early later
<jsgotangco> Belutz, what are your impressions of mark after meeting him personally? :)
<jsgotangco> Belutz, i hope it was a great experience for you
* mdke considers sending a request to the mailing list for people to quote properly
<mdke> jjesse, maybe you didn't copy across the hidden files/directories
<mdke> giftnudel, see the WikiGuide page
<giftnudel> ok, i'll do that, thx
<giftnudel> I hope this is a step in the right direction:  I reformatted https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LostPassword and hope it's better this way
<jjesse> mgalvin: for vmplayer you don't need to create the file first in qemu and then convert it you can just do qemu-img create dapper.vmdk -f vmdk 3G 
<jjesse> mgalvin: which would create a 3G file in the format for vmplayer named dapper
<mgalvin> jjesse: oh neat, it can do it directly, sweet
<mgalvin> good find :)
<jjesse> thanks, i was !intenret at the time i was wokring on my vmplayer and just read the help :)
<mdke> giftnudel, it would help if you send the link to the mailing list, that way we won't forget to check it out
<giftnudel> mdke, hmm, I'll do that tomorrow, thx again
#ubuntu-doc 2006-02-07
<jsgotangco> wow major lag
<rexs> hi everybody, i'm a new user to kubuntu & i wan't to help in documenting
<rexs> how can i join?
<mdke> morning
<mdke> geez, everyone's writing books
<jsgotangco> err when is this joint UDSF meeting?
<lloydinho> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDSF/MeetingAgenda
<lloydinho> this friday at 21.00 UTC
<jsgotangco> cool that would be 5am on my side :/
<jsgotangco> hey rob 
<jsgotangco> how's it going
<rob> hi jsgotangco 
<rob> pretty good, yourself?
<rob> I hear there is a book coming out?
<jsgotangco> yes
<jsgotangco> that would be around 400 pages
<jsgotangco> i was talking to sabdfl about it a while ago
<jsgotangco> i think he already flew
<jsgotangco> rob, i'm good, sabdfl was in manila today we got to meet up again and chat
<rob> nice
<rob> he was in australia recently, but too far away for me to meet him
<rob> when is the "big" meeting going to take place?
<jsgotangco> friday 21UTC
<jsgotangco> it'll be saturday on our side
<rob> 7am
<rob> for me, on saturday
<rob> what are the chances of grws (?) people and others making it?
<rob> that debate on the forums about automatix was pretty bad
<jsgotangco> yeah pretty nasty
<jsgotangco> i'm more convinced not to even use it now
<rob> same
<jsgotangco> i tried it like twice
<rob> I have never used it
<rob> don't see the need, really
<jsgotangco> i tried it to see the buzz
<jsgotangco> and how crackful it seemed to be
<rob> I really hate some of these unofficial ubuntu-related projects, and the people who run them
<jsgotangco> they have their own interpretations
<jsgotangco> of stuff done the ubuntu way
<rob> ubuntu itself is great, I think some aspects of the community bring it down
<rob> in some ways, it's no better then that of what gentoo is renowned for
<rob> however, instead of being elitist, they try to help too much
<rob> and then fight about it
* rob is kind of enjoying his self-imposed break at the moment
<jsgotangco> mmm??
<jsgotangco> any reason for that?
<rob> no, other then work being really busy at the moment
<rob> I've been doing a bit of python too, might submit a patch or two for gnome-app-install
<rob> infact, I really like the way gnome-app-install is now going, it is a little more Synaptic-like
<rob> anyway, I had better hit the sack
<rob> good night jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> night rob 
<mpt> Look on Amazon, there are already three books
<jsgotangco> yes
<jsgotangco> wow doc-commits list is really slow
<jjesse> morning
<jsgotangco> hello best selling author to be
<jsgotangco> :)
<jjesse> grin thanks :)
* jsgotangco is glad of the opportunity given to you
<jjesse> i'm was suprised i was offered it
<jsgotangco> don't be, you earned your keep
<jjesse> thanks, just need to find time for all the projects i'm working on
<jsgotangco> just don't accept too much that would spread you thin :)
<jsgotangco> ive churned out a couple of new screenshots for the quickguide, i'll be uploading them shortly and was thinking of expanding the preliminary howto sections
<jjesse> awesome, i've done a little poking at it but not much
<jsgotangco> its ok, we have a few more dapper tests to go :)
<ompaul> What is the correct name for something like "Games" or "Internet" and so on.
<ompaul> as found on the menu
<mgalvin> ompaul: Accessories, Games, Graphics, Internet, Office, Sound & Video, System Tools, and Add Applications
<mgalvin> those you mean?
<ompaul> I do, what is the noun for them?
<ompaul> A name of the the items on the Applications menu or Places menu or the System menu
* ompaul wants a label for those labels :)
<ompaul> mgalvin, are you the matt.t one?
<mgalvin> yes
<ompaul> it is in reply to your mail, (A) your first one is the best one ;-) imho (and we all know there is no humble there) (B) you gave me an idea
<ompaul> it is a very good idea.
<ompaul> and lovely graphic
<mgalvin> thanks, i am glad you like it
<mgalvin> ompaul, for the menus they are generally refered to as the "Applications Menu" etc... or globally as the "GNOME Menu(s)"
<mgalvin> not sure if that is what you are looking for
<ompaul> no, just a sec I can explain it in a little more detail and then tell me what you think
<ompaul> what I am thinking about is this - Default enteries at the top of each menu, they can be duplicated further down, so if you have Gedit at your normal editor then it has "a ubuntu editor graphic" if you change it to xcoral or nedit or something it gets the "ubuntu" flag - now mouse over it and it says the name of the product - so we get to internet there is a default browser - email - irc client - so if someone installs a million irc clients their defau
<ompaul> lt one is first
<ompaul> has that any value?
<mgalvin> ompaul: i think that may be something you might want to discuss on -desktop with the desktop team
<ompaul> okay
* ompaul adds yet another one to the channels to attach self to
<mgalvin> :)
#ubuntu-doc 2006-02-08
<LaserJock> does anybody know who "dean" is who sent the packaging guide patch?
* jsgotangco shrugs
<frans-th> hi all
<frans-th> anyone can help me about community council,
<theCore> frans-th, just ask
<frans-th> 2 days ago mark come here, and he explain about SI development in our country, indonesia
<frans-th> Ubuntu Asia Tour..
<frans-th> he explain about SI, partnership and communtiy council
<frans-th> but i still dont get it
<frans-th> i got that there is a partnership which we must pay, and the community council
<frans-th> i finding info what is the differences
<frans-th> right now we are in affiliate program
<frans-th> is this channel the room for this?
<theCore> okay, I can't really help about the SI because I don't what it is, but I can give you a link to a page that will explain to you what is the Community Council 
<theCore> not really
<theCore> this channel is about the Ubuntu Documentation
<jsgotangco> SI?
<jsgotangco> community stuff isn't paid
<frans-th> SI = system integrator.
<frans-th> i am reading community council, which invited directly by mark.
<jsgotangco> but if you're looking into a commercial venture, you have hvae talk with Canonical
<theCore> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/council <-- here info about the CC
<jsgotangco> the community council is for volunteers
<frans-th> i just want to know deeply about ubuntu esp in community things
<frans-th> how about the company that want hire people and want to become part of it.
<theCore> frans-th, in which channel did you had a talk with Mark ? 
<jsgotangco> theCore, he went to jakarta a few days ago
<jsgotangco> i had lunch with mark yesterday before he flew to tokyo
<theCore> oh ,,,
<frans-th> mark, come to indonesia, i am his guide here, he and the team meet our minister of IT here, but i think i must prepare for the next wave, i hear that he will come in june again to indoensia
<frans-th> jsgotangco, r u from manila?
<jsgotangco> i wont be surprised
<jsgotangco> frans-th, yes
<frans-th> haha, i am with him the day before you.
<jsgotangco> yes
<theCore> wow, you are lucky
<jsgotangco> although i've been talked with  mark like thrice already heh
<frans-th> he explain a lot of ubuntu, which we cannot find in website, like how to integrate ubuntu repo with our own ubuntu archvie, and how to develop a rebranding repo and integrate with it
<frans-th> :P
<frans-th> i think, mark is very tired, 22 countries :P
<jsgotangco> well sarah is much tired i'd say
<frans-th> hehe :) mark angry always with her, to organize :P
<jsgotangco> frans-th, if your company has people who want to volunteer in ubuntu, go ahead and let them, that's how community works
<jsgotangco> not only will it improve their knowledge, you're also aware that you're actually contributing to something in the distro or to the community
<frans-th> i want to educate people here about how ubuntu work, which i am, may be, only the user.
<jsgotangco> nahh
<jsgotangco> there's Andi and Ananda
<frans-th> my job right now to setup ubuntu archive mirror here.
<frans-th> Andi and Ananda :) yah he come..
<jsgotangco> Andi is a recognized ubuntu member
<frans-th> i know him well
<jsgotangco> and have talked in a recent debian conference
<jsgotangco> i get to chat with ananda on IM
<frans-th> yah, he is the 24hours chat room bot :P
<frans-th> oh my im is fthamura@yahoo.com
<jsgotangco> let me add that
<frans-th> oh, you the one which one to come to our debian conference :P
<frans-th> turn off here, my gaim cannot login to yahoo :) 
<jsgotangco> yes, but i was in seoul the day before your debian conference
<frans-th> still confuse how to upgrade gaim
<frans-th> aha,  :P you are the guy
<frans-th> i am moderator of the mailing list ubuntu here
<frans-th> but i am not very oftenly online in irc
<frans-th> may be andi is better knowledge about ubuntu
<jsgotangco> you guys should meet up often :)
<frans-th> i just want to make igos program here, become more recogzinize.. becuas our minister event after meetin mark, still trust microsoft more
<theCore> by the way, did you that Google hackers use Ubuntu on their desktop?
<frans-th> gooogle hack?
<jsgotangco> yes that's pretty old news heh
<theCore> (by hackers I mean "software enginieers")
<theCore> engineers*
<carthik> my ex-proj manager works for google now, and he says that is not unusual and nothing to get excited about -- like any other company google employees are free to use the os they like
<carthik> there are just as many FC-4 users there :)
<frans-th> jsgotangco, i want to make a guide that everyone can read and easy to understand, may be around 1 pages, to explain how a volunteer can be part o fubuntu
<jsgotangco> frans-th, hold on
<frans-th> and, also, to make sure that a company can do that also..
<jsgotangco> arrghh moin index
<frans-th> mark explain about goobuntu also, :P i just cannot wait, when will google-ubuntu launch
<theCore> google won't release it
<jsgotangco> frans-th, http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate
<jsgotangco> no they won't release that
<jsgotangco> it could have made the front page of the IT news though
<frans-th> jsgotangco, what is the progress of ubuntu movement in philipina?
<frans-th> after mark come, there are several scenario which several dont agree with mark statement :P
<jsgotangco> frans-th, pretty good...
<frans-th> esp the h/w vendor that hate M$
<jsgotangco> frans-th, this is the -doc channel, i can just go to your channel and talk stuff
<frans-th> our ubuntu member in our ubuntu mailing list 88 person :( compare to general linux user 1500 
<frans-th> ok
<frans-th> ubuntu-id
<frans-th> :P
<frans-th> sorry guys
<jsgotangco> frans-th, its ok, the channel is logged and we don't want to log offtopic stuff
<frans-th> what is that mean?
<jsgotangco> this channel maintains a log
<frans-th> i still finding how much ubuntu channel  :) and what is that. :) i am new here, event i am moderator of the mailing list :) hahah
<theCore> everything said here is recorded by a bot
<jsgotangco> and could be used against you? hehehe
<frans-th> :P
<jsgotangco> ill grab a bite first
<jsgotangco> brb
<theCore> I wonder if have chances to accepted as a member ... 
<frans-th> ?
<theCore> a Ubuntu member.
<frans-th> dont get it..
<theCore> anyway, I wouldn't see a difference being a member except for the @ubuntu.com email 
<theCore> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/newmember
<Madpilot> theCore: Membership gets you commit right to the doc repo, among other things
<frans-th> my friend, andi got that also :) but i am not interest with it, my interest here, ubuntu are the market leader :)
<theCore> Madpilot, can get around that by submitting my diff on the mailing list, however I admit that it would be convenient
<Madpilot> yeah, it means less trouble for those w/ commit rights
<theCore> frans-th, that ubuntu bug #1
<Madpilot> ...but I've gone and forgotten my PGP password, so my key is f'ing useless and I can't decrypt the email I got that'll give me commit rights...
<frans-th> i like the bugs #1 :P
<frans-th> i think my job here, is more like marketing rather than contributor
<frans-th> but still dont know, what is the positioning for chearleader of ubuntu :P
<jsgotangco> on the frontpage of the kde.org wiki, it says 
<jsgotangco> Expertise
<jsgotangco>  Make sure you are an expert on what you write here, or become one. Be bold in changing what can be better. Accept that your writings will be changed by others. 
<jsgotangco> 
<jsgotangco>  Copyright
<jsgotangco>  Everyone who draws, designs or writes something, has the copyright on it. Same way here. However, when you publish it here you agree to publishing it under the GNU Free Documentation License. You agree that it can be changed by others. Make sure you hold the copyright over material you publish. 
<jsgotangco> 
<jsgotangco>  License
<jsgotangco>  See the link below every page.
<jsgotangco> every page has a copyright and license notice :/
<Madpilot> jsgotangco: I think Wikipedia has copyright/license on every page too
<jsgotangco> maybe we should consider that too
<Madpilot> the Moin template can probably be modified
<jsgotangco> it needs consideration
<jsgotangco> we don't have to worry much about copyright, just license would be a good target for now
<Madpilot> my only concern with CC:PD is it's non-viral, but it's also simplest...
<jsgotangco> hrmmm
<jsgotangco> can we make up our own derivative license? heh
<Madpilot> there isn't a CC:SA license, and there really should be, for when you want viral-ness but don't care about attribution
<jsgotangco> General Ubuntu License for the Public (GULP)
<jsgotangco> section 1: Pig out
<Madpilot> heh
<mdke> Madpilot, non viral?
<Madpilot> mdke: like the GPL - if you use GPL-licensed stuff, your stuff has to be GPL. With PD, there's no controls like that
<mdke> and that is bad?
<mdke> that's the whole point :D
<Madpilot> depends
<Madpilot> PD is simplest, for sure
<jsgotangco> nonetheless we should still include a license
<Madpilot> like I said earlier, it's too bad there isn't a CC:SA license
<Madpilot> anyway, need sleep - later, all
<mdke> night
<mdke> Madpilot, hang on
<Madpilot> still here...
<mdke> if you aren't gonna remember your gpg key, best make another one (with a revocation cert. this time) and upload to launchpad
<mdke> that way we can re-ask elmo
<Madpilot> I'll do that tomorrow, more carefully than I made the first one!
<mdke> cool
<mdke> night
<Madpilot> g'night
<jsgotangco> hey mdke 
<mdke> jsgotangco, hiya
<jsgotangco> mdke: http://www.flickr.com/photos/headgeekette/
<mdke> haha
<mdke> hair cut and a tie eh
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> scary
<mdke> jsgotangco, what kubuntu docs are we releasing for dapper? I will make some pot templates
<mdke> i've done releasenotes
<mdke> quickguide i guess?
<jsgotangco> quickguide yes
<jsgotangco> dunno about desktop
<jsgotangco> about kubuntu as well i guess
<jsgotangco> its doable in LP?
<mdke> of course
<jsgotangco> i thought it wasn't before :/
<mdke> the kubuntu docs are in the same format as the ubuntu ones
<jsgotangco> xml-wise
<jsgotangco> yeah
<mdke> there is no problem with translating them in the same way
<jsgotangco> ok then, we'd love that
<jsgotangco> how does it go when i update the doc?
<jsgotangco> you create a new pot?
<mdke> that's right
<mdke> i won't upload the pots to rosetta yet anyway
<jsgotangco> ahh
<jsgotangco> okay
<mdke> just exploring
<jsgotangco> we'll do that when we freeze right?
<mdke> maybe earlier
<jsgotangco> ok
<mdke> we can upload them, then update them
<jsgotangco> can you remind the list when we're about to do that?
<mdke> sure i will
<jsgotangco> thanks
<jsgotangco> at least it'll remind people who don't look at the timetable :/
<jsgotangco> i'm also doing the other edubuntu stuff
<mdke> yeah i saw
<jsgotangco> but they're not that big so it should be easy
<mdke> is all the edubuntu stuff in the repo used?
<mdke> or is some other documentation being written elsewhere?
<jsgotangco> no i'll just remove what's idle later
<jsgotangco> its only 2 small docs
<mdke> cool
<mdke> and what about that other stuff you were keeping?
<jsgotangco> i also need to update the upstream g-a-i then ask mvo to put it on the bzr or wherever the whole source is stored
<mdke> erm
<mdke> is that the current help documentation for that app?
<mdke> they don't have it elsewhere?
<jsgotangco> there's no doc for that app yet
<mdke> can you get it added to gnome cvs or wherever is appropriate?
<jsgotangco> yes i'll update it
<jsgotangco> then have it added
<mdke> i think you should have it added first, then update it
<mdke> because right now, in our svn, it isn't being used for any package
<jsgotangco> errr ok i'll try to do something about it later when i get to grab someone who maintains it
* mdke nods
<mdke> i think that is a good idea
<mdke> mvo is around now I think
<jsgotangco> due
<jsgotangco> dude
<jsgotangco> i'm still at work :/
<jsgotangco> gimme a few hours :/
<mdke> ah ok
<rob> mdke, do you know if bzr has a tool to automatically import other bzr repos?
* rob hates having to learn different versioning repos
<Kinnison> import other bzr repos?
<Kinnison> bzr is self-contained-branch currently
<Kinnison> so just cp the branch to make a new one
<rob> ?
<Kinnison> Well I don't see what you're trying to acheieve
<Kinnison> Perhaps if you explain more, I can help
<rob> Kinnison, I thought so
<rob> nar, wget-ing it now
<Kinnison> You can do that, or 'bzr branch http://blahblahblah'
<rob> ah, thats what I was after, wget keeps trying to download the whole people.ubuntu.com
<Kinnison> heh
<rob> woah, it keeps wigging out
<rob> is people.ubuntu.com password protected?
<Kinnison> I don't believe so
<Kinnison> what are you trying to branch?
<Kinnison> (and I'll have a go from here)
<rob> 'http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/bzr/gai--new-look/
<rob> without the "'"
<Kamping_Kaiser> it's there
* Kinnison tries
<rob> I know that, but I keep getting:
<rob> bzr: ERROR: command: '/usr/bin/bzr' 'branch' 'http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/bzr/gai--new-look/'
<rob> pwd: /home/rob/bazaar/gnome-app-install
<rob> an integer is required
<rob>   at /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/bzrlib/builtins.py line 432, in run()
<rob>   see ~/.bzr.log for debug information
<rob> grr
<hawking>  I am using privoxy but it doesn't work properly I mean .. when I look up if my IP is changed I see no difference can someone have a look at my privoxy configuration file and tell me why? here it is http://rafb.net/paste/results/cG3qzG18.html
<rob> looks like you were using tor to me
<rob> * hawknig (n=hawking@tor/session/x-1e49073314d71639) has joined #ubuntu-doc
<hawking> rob : nope with web-browsing I mean
<hawking> with firefox
<hawking> tor works ok
<rob> just set your firefox proxy to your privoxy
<rob> then go to one of those ip checking websites
<hawking> I already did
<hawking> still same IP
<rob> then its probably not working, or using a cached copy
<hawking> hmm
<hawking> no cached copies I visited some other sites still the same
<hawking> :/ why is it not working? have ya looked at my conf file?
<rob> no, but I would say something isn't configured correctly ;)
<hawking> hehe
<hawking> I'll try reinstalling
<hawking> didn't work :/
<hawking> I still have the same ip
<hawking> this drives me crazy.... ?! what may be wrong
<rob> they might have a forum or something that could help you
<hawking> hopefully...
<hawking> btw do you know what identd is?
<mdke> hawking, you might need #ubuntu
<hawking> I use tor I can't connect there
<rob> this isn't a help channel
<mdke> hawking, why not?
<rob> mdke, tor is banned
<mdke> why?
<hawking> tor
<mdke> why is tor banned?
<rob> ask the ops
<mdke> crazy
<mdke> all the bans in there are on nicks@*
<rob> on here they get a tor cloak
<hawking> tor users caused great mess there I guess
<rob> you can ban by cloak just as you do with hostname
<mdke> 43 bans, jeez
<jsgotangco> eh?
<jsgotangco> later guys
<jsgotangco> friday night =)
<jsgotangco> mdke: next week is our meeting right?
<mdke> not sure
<mdke> hawking, best not to use tor then I suppose
<hawking> mdke : my university doesn't let IRC
<hawking> I'm in dormitory
<hawking> no other way to connect
<rob> why don't you set up a secure bnc somewhere?
<hawking> secure bnc what's that?
<rob> or even easier, just set up a shell account, ssh into it then irc though that
<rob> as far as the uni will know, its just an ssh connection out
<hawking> yeah that I can do
<hawking> but then I'll need to use a console-based irc client
<rob> irc is a text based medium
<hawking> tor is the most comfortable way
<hawking> and I can live without #ubuntu 
<hawking> :)
<hawking> anyway gotta go
<hawking> bye
<rob> except you can't get into #ubuntu :)
<jsgotangco> goodnight
<Bonzodog> um..quick question
<Bonzodog> the <strike> tags don't work in the wiki?
<Bonzodog> I need to put something in like that to indicate that it is no longer relevant....
<Bonzodog> it doesn't support it
<Bonzodog> amongst a few other formatting rules
<mdke> the wiki doesn't use tags, but afaik there is no strike out font effect
<mdke> Bonzodog, just remove stuff that isn't relevant, or if it is for an old version, make a note of that
<Bonzodog> yeah found that out
<Bonzodog> I was just updating the CC agenda
<Bonzodog> and wanted to use strikeout so people could see that the item was no longer needed
<Bonzodog> it appears that moinmoin is being replaced?
<Bonzodog> I found a big item about moinmoin wiki's being ported to snipsnap
<jjesse> mdke: ping
<mdke> jjesse, yo
<jjesse> sorry was in another window
<mdke> Bonzodog, the Ubuntu wiki is certainly not being replaced. Where did you see that?
<jjesse> i'm looking at About-Kubuntu and right now on d.u.c it shows 5.10 and Breezy Badger
<mdke> right
<mdke> that should be using the entities
<jjesse> it is
<jjesse> so where do i  change the entities?
<jjesse> <-- slowly learning
<mdke> hmm
<mdke> good question
<mdke> where is it importing entities?
<jjesse> section right under the title
<jjesse> <para> Welcome to Kubunt &distro-re; : the &kdistor-version;
<mdke> i mean, from where is it importing entities. We can check those files
<mdke> you see em at the top
<mdke> i've checked global.ent, its not there
<jjesse> kde.ent?
<jjesse> ../../libs/kde.ent
<jjesse> found it
<mdke> cool
<jjesse> trunk/kubuntu/libs/kde.ent
<mdke> hmm forum tab on the website?
* mdke disagrees
* mdke reads thread
<jjesse> i'm updating about kubuntu right now so you can then release the translations
<Bonzodog> mdke: my idea
<Bonzodog> you don't get unless you ask
<mdke> Bonzodog, problem is that the forum is one of 3 or 4 help resources, we don't have space to give each of them one tab
<Bonzodog> even I didn't know where that one was going to come out
<mdke> i like what henrik has done tho
<Bonzodog> the forum isn't just about help in my opinion
<Bonzodog> it's about community
<mdke> Bonzodog, the forum staff continuously say that it is a helpdesk
<Bonzodog> it is fast becoming a core of the community
<Bonzodog> it's primary cause is a helpdesk of sorts
<mdke> true, but then again, some of the other help resources are too
<mdke> like irc, and mailing lists
<mdke> and the wiki, etc
<Bonzodog> the mailing lists are beyond an awful lot of people
<mdke> Bonzodog, each resource has pros and cons
<Bonzodog> I'm talking about easy simple communication
<Bonzodog> for absolute newbies
<mdke> no disagreement
<Bonzodog> they understand the forums
<mdke> but that doesn't mean the other resources are less significant
<jjesse> part of me gets frustrated every time the wiki is given less and less importance, document storage, forums, etc
<jjesse> why work on the wiki
<Bonzodog> jesse: the wiki is often referred to as a secondary resource
<mdke> jjesse, forums are good for asking questions and getting answers from people
<Bonzodog> the same as udsf is
<mdke> documentation has a different feel
<jjesse> i can honestly say that i have used the forums maybe once or twice, everything else i have found on the wiki
<mdke> jjesse, that's because you prefer to read first, rather than ask first
<Bonzodog> jjesse: but the forums are also the place for users to meet other users
<mdke> that's the reason both are equally important
<mdke> Bonzodog, you can just remove that agenda item btw
<Bonzodog> not all new users undrestand IRC and quite a few don't trust IRC
<Bonzodog> I did
<Bonzodog> thats why i asked about strike out
<mdke> Bonzodog, just delete it?
<mdke> and let's not focus on criticising other resources
<mdke> let's focus on the pros
<Bonzodog> well, some CC members have already read it
<Bonzodog> so I thought it useful to point out that it had been erased
<mdke> they can read the diff if they care. But if its resolved, they won't care
<lloydinho> hey folks.
<bustacap> hello
<lloydinho> I'm new here, but want to contribute.
<jjesse> hello lloydinho
<lloydinho> Been looking at the various pages on how to contribute, and I'm certainly not very well versed with SVN or DocBook or anything like that
<bustacap> lloydinho, are you comfortable editing HTML?
<lloydinho> yeah. Reasonably so.
<jjesse> lloydinho: you also just proofread and send changes to the mailing list
<bustacap> well that's all you need, the DocBook format is XML, like HTML - it's just as intuitive
<lloydinho> okay.
<bustacap> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Repository
<bustacap> I still have that page open when I work on the docs..
<bustacap> it's pretty good..
<lloydinho> yeah, I've looked through most of that..
<lloydinho> it makes good enough sense, I guess - and I'll have to get used to it.
<bustacap> does it still look fairly daunting?
<jjesse> lloydinho: you could also just read the docs that are published on doc.ubuntu.com (these are the ones going into the next release) and submit changes to the mailing list
<lloydinho> Okay, but I was just wondering about where to start
<bustacap> the docs on doc.ubuntu.com are the ones that you will download off SVN
<jjesse> pick a topic that you feel you are knowledge about and review them
<lloydinho> yes, I've downloaded all of that stuff into SVN, already.
<bustacap> well, start with the wiki page by downloading the SVN
<bustacap> ok..
<lloydinho> Okay.
<bustacap> now read through doc.ubuntu.com and pick something you have some knowledge in
<lloydinho> will do..
<bustacap> I am sure the Server Starter Guide and the Kubuntu guys could do with some help
<jjesse> kubuntu always needs love :)
<bustacap> the Ubuntu Starter Guide has most of it's content
<bustacap> :)
<lloydinho> heh. unfortunately, I know very little about kubuntu.. most of my skills are in actual proof reading and presentation...
<bustacap> lloydinho, also get yourself onto the doc team mailing list if you haven't already.. lists.ubuntu.com
<jjesse> proof reading is what we need typos and stuff like that
<bustacap> yeah, go through the Kubuntu guide..
<lloydinho> I'll try that then..
<bustacap> the key is lloydinho is to recognise that there are certain ways of formatting things as well..
<lloydinho> yes, I saw the style guide..
<bustacap> for instance, instead of - click "OK" - it should be - click <guibutton>OK</guibutton>
<bustacap> yeah, it goes a little deeper than that..
<lloydinho> I'll try to get a feel for that as well.
<bustacap> I have found that some sections have been written really well, using all the right tags, and others haven't..
<bustacap> you should be able to find one section that is sporting all the tags and use it as a reference, you'll get the hang of it pretty quickly
<lloydinho> sounds good.
<bustacap> and you get your name on the Credits ;)
<lloydinho> heh ;-)
<lloydinho> I'll try and play around with it for a bit.
<lloydinho> It's just slightly daunting when you don't know who's working on what, and if you're doing the same work as somebody else.
<lloydinho> I guess it's just a matter of getting used to working like that..
<mdke> lloydinho, we'll help you along
<lloydinho> mdke - thanks :)
<bustacap> morning mdke
<mdke> hi bustacap 
<bustacap> I'm on holidays after this meeting :D
<mdke> i can imagine
<bustacap> haha :)
<mdke> don't forget to relax by hacking up the desktopguide :)
<bustacap> Just having a week off work, might do the same thing with the doc stuff
<bustacap> hehe :)
<bustacap> well I was going to hack the wiki offline on the plane
<bustacap> I am preparing for a proposal to give it a good restructuring..
<Bonzodog> meeting in 5 mins....mdke
<Bonzodog> you joining us?
<mdke> i may not be around for long I'm afraid
<mdke> bustacap, you know that we're moving the wiki documentation right?
<bustacap> yeah, what's the timing on that?
<mdke> not sure, depends on a number of things
<mdke> we need some coding from someone, and to sort the hosting out
<mdke> but hopefully by dapper
<bustacap> sure, that's fine, I hope to get my work in prior to the move..
<mdke> okey
<bustacap> I will make the proposal public before I do too much work..
<bustacap> ok, I'm going to start the meeting off..
<mdke> ok, who knows how to use sed?
<bustacap> mdke, I know how.. I might wrap the meeting up shortly and I can give you a hand..
<mdke> oh cool
<mdke> ah awesome. /me notices some good feedback on the forum about the desktopguide
<mdke> bustacap, i'm off the bed in a sec. This is the job:
<mdke> see trunk/ubuntu/desktopguide/translate.sh
<bustacap> yep..
<mdke> I need something added to that which will sed through the content of ${y}/mk and replace every instance of "C" (capital C) with "${y}"
<bustacap> I'll have a look at it and send you a mail..
<mdke> bustacap, thanks a mill
<mdke> night
#ubuntu-doc 2006-02-09
<robotgeek> howdy Madpilot 
<Madpilot> hi robotgeek
<robotgeek> do you have the link for update  manager, to move to dapper?
<Madpilot> me? nope.
<robotgeek> heh, i'll ask google :)
<Madpilot> I assume that editing your sources.list & running dist-upgrade works?
<robotgeek> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/231
<Madpilot> ping mdke
<Madpilot> after I upload my new key to Launchpad, do I have to re-sign the CoC?
<lambert> If I want to understand current organization of the wiki, where do I go to learn
<Madpilot> lambert: here, except that it's pretty quiet right now
* lambert takes my rain check and walks out the door
<Madpilot> lambert: there's also the mailing list
<lambert> not real big on mailing lists
<Madpilot> most of the Ubuntu dev stuff - including the doc/wiki team - is done w/ mailing lists when it isn't on IRC...
<Madpilot> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WikiTeam
<Madpilot> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WikiGuide
<lambert> My main question is, in going to the wiki, how does one dicipher(??spell check) official doc from just user added scrapbook type good information
<lambert> especially when just doing a search and getting a page of page links
<Madpilot> you've got to just look at likely-looking pages, really - and if you can, help improve the "scrapbook"-level pages
<lambert> From a user perspective, there should be something that stands out to the users
<lambert> yellow back ground verified page
<lambert> pink back ground scrapbook type page
<Madpilot> the links off UserDocumentation are (generally) the good stuff
<Madpilot> by "scrapbook" pages, do you mean the developer's pages? There's a lot of them, and they're pretty useless to ordinary users...
<lambert> my term scrapbook could be a communication barrier in what I'm trying to express
<Madpilot> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UsbAdslModem <-- "scrapbook" like this page, with no real formatting?
<lambert> not really a developers page, but a page added by an ordinary user, something that may be incomplete and "proceed with caution"
<Madpilot> OK
<Madpilot> the best way to avoid pages like that is to use the links off https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDocumentation
<Madpilot> Generally speaking, docs linked to from there will not be scrapbook types, or at least they'll be marked as such if they are
<lambert> How is the perception of how a user uses the wiki?
<lambert> from the userdocumentation page or just a search?
<Madpilot> given that the wiki's search engine sucks, for a variety of reasons, I'd hope the UserDocs page is used...
<jsgotangco> "official" doc work is svn
<Madpilot> hi jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> majority of docs in wiki are community contributed
<jsgotangco> hi brian
<jsgotangco> where's corey, our best-selling author to be?
<jsgotangco> *grin*
<Madpilot> on a business trip to Toronto
<jsgotangco> wow
<jsgotangco> jetsetter, he is
<Madpilot> he may have even had to wear a tie, the poor SOB... :P
<jsgotangco> haha
<jsgotangco> did you see my blog post on sabdfl
<Madpilot> yeah - haircut, tie and all...
<jsgotangco> scary
<jsgotangco> http://www.flickr.com/photos/headgeekette has it all
<Madpilot> lambert: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CategoryCleanup has lots of 'scrapbook' type pages, if you're feeling like cleaning some up
<lambert> jsgotangco: kind of where I'm trying to get at and understand, when a user comes to wiki, what sets apart and "brings attention" to the user what they are using and if they move forward what the extent of the information is
<lambert> Madpilot: I started working here but took a break until I understand how to clean it up and what to do with it...
<jsgotangco> lambert, wiki entries though, are cleaned up thoroughly and sometimes fixed by some people of the docteam
<jsgotangco> lambert, but there's no distinction in the wiki about official and scrap stuff for now
<jsgotangco> because its always open season in the wiki
<jsgotangco> the most stable is always help.ubuntu.com (from the svn repos)
<lambert> any idea on visit comparison between wiki and help.ubuntu... where do more users go?
<Madpilot> probably the wiki still, help.u.c is newer - but that's just a guess
<jsgotangco> nahh wiki gets more hits 
<lambert> From my point, I'd like to see some indicator of what I'm read, just an open season entry or something a little more scrutinized (need my third grade spelling be expert)
<Madpilot> lambert: we're talking about adding more controls to the wiki, so we can stabilize the good docs
<lambert> No experience anywhere else, but I've heard good things about gentoo's documentation, has anybody looked at how others are doing it and maybe taking a page from their book?
<jsgotangco> yeah gentoo wiki is pretty radical
<jsgotangco> they're so good they even create their docs in their own markup
<jsgotangco> :)
<Madpilot> that sounds very gentoo-ish, doesn't it? :P
<jsgotangco> we could learn a thing or two on the freebsd handbook as well
<lambert> jsgotangco: do you know the gentoo wiki url off hand?
<lambert> and yes I've heard good things about bsd docs also
<jsgotangco> http://gentoo-wiki.com/Main_Page
<lambert> Looks like wikipedia wiki style? Is that mediawiki?
<jsgotangco> yes
<jsgotangco> which is very good in terms of organization and presentation (in my opinion)
<lambert> Seems a lot of wiki's I see use media wiki. where did ubuntu's wiki choice of moinmoin come from?
<jsgotangco> python :)
<jsgotangco> we are worshippers of the all migthy python scripting language
* lambert considers bowing,,,,,,, nah just ponders thought as not a programmer
<Madpilot> I gather there's some PHP-phobics on the Canonical staff... :P
<jsgotangco> lol
<jsgotangco> manicka, hey
<lambert> in the gentoo wiki, a couple "general searches" seems to always bring up a page and not a list of results....
<manicka> hi
<lambert> manicka
<lambert> I like how their search works, not a bunch of links and pages need to work browse
<jsgotangco> that's how mediawiki works
<lambert> *links and pages needed to browse
<manicka> what version of moinmoin does the wiki currently use
<jsgotangco> most people like mediawiki because its a no-brainer to set up and it only takes 3 minutes to have a working wiki
<manicka> *uses
<jsgotangco> its not the same with moin moin
<jsgotangco> but it is highly programmable
<jsgotangco> look at ubuntu.com that's all moin moin
<jsgotangco> we've even done the same with theopencd.org
<lambert> my original question was understanding organization of wiki.ubuntu and I have to say it's very confusing to me....from my initial view of gentoo wiki it's a lot better to the end user
<manicka> my understanding is that moinmoin1.5 incorporates a GUI editing interface. Is there any plans for the wiki to upgrade to it or use it?
<Madpilot> it's been mentioned on the mailing list - can't remember what the maintainers said
<manicka> it would improve the useability for users drastically
<manicka> *dramatically
<manicka> oh, you know what I mean
<jsgotangco> lambert, alas, yes the only organization we could do at the moment with wiki.ubuntu.com are category cleanups
<manicka> I've been having a look at the desktop edition, it's much easier to use
<jsgotangco> really?
<jsgotangco> maybe i've just been so used to moin syntax
<jsgotangco> :/
<manicka> yes, I think so, the Gui edit is very straight forward. It's a no brainer
<lambert> manicka: anything special needed to instal desktop version?
<manicka> you need to have python installed
<manicka> Just download and unzip it, then follow the instructions as per http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/DesktopEdition
<lambert> did it take long?
<manicka> no, it's very simple
<manicka> the whole is self contained and runs from within the unzipped folder
<manicka> you just have to have python already installed
<manicka> which most people have anyway
<manicka> *whole thing
<lambert> not working it seems, looks to be locked and getting an importerror: canno tnot import name failure
<manicka> I used the ZIP file
<manicka> http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/moin/moin-desktop-1.5.1-1.zip?download
<KingBahamut> lambert
<lambert> KingBahamut: :)
<manicka> kb :)
<lambert> manicka: my fault, unziped as root in my user folder and tried running as root, deleted and did everything as me, works find now.
<lambert> So, on the wikitodo page, with something like this
<lambert> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/'setkeycodes_e02a_%3ckeycode%3e'_issue?highlight=%28CategoryCleanup%29
<lambert> What is expected to happen to a page like that? expanded? merged into something else?
<Madpilot> merged, if anyone actually knows what the original poster was talking about... :P
<lambert> and if the page is merged, delete the original?
<Madpilot> depends
<Madpilot> if it's a page that's actually used, redirect to the new page
<Madpilot> if it's not linked to from anywhere, nuke it
<Madpilot> redirect is safer, though
<lambert> thanks for your time and good night....
<k31th> Yo
<k31th> MOrning all
<mdke> morning
<jsgotangco> mdke: what was that script for?
<jsgotangco> to creat pots?
<mdke> no, it's for generating xml from translated po files downloaded from rosetta
<mdke> jbailey wrote it last release cycle
* jsgotangco hates working in a weekend
<mdke> damn, you are at work
<mdke> sucks
<jsgotangco> yeah :/
<jsgotangco> i've been here since 10am
<jsgotangco> its now 7pm
<mdke> ouch
<robotgeek> take a break jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> id love to kick the butt of that developer somewhere down under
<k31th> well i just got up
<k31th> its almost 11AM here :D
<jsgotangco> i should have been doing other work today :/
<jsgotangco> oh well
<k31th> my glands are up i sence a cold coming on
<k31th> this machine flys now i got ubuntu on it
<dsas> Is the correct place for reporting bugs in the ubuntu desktop guide here: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-docs/+bugs ?
<mdke> dsas, yes, that's fine
<dsas> ok, the desktop guide points to just ubuntu/+bugs
<dsas> however the status is marked as in progress - so will that page be changing in the near future anyway?
<dsas> status of the relevant page that is.
<mdke> dsas, maybe. But file your bug
<mdke> or if it's easy, tell me and I'll fix it now
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> want to do a triage now?
* jsgotangco is quite free at the moment
<mdke> i'm trying to clear up the tips and tricks section of the desktopguide
<mdke> any ideas for splitting it into subsections are really welcome
<mdke> at the moment I've only got as far as "desktop customisation" and "system tweaks"
<mdke> maybe "program tweaks" too
<jsgotangco> hmmm im not that familiar with the desktopguide yet
<jsgotangco> well system pertains to the OS
<dsas> the bug is that in the desktopguide/preface.xml the reporting bugs bit has anchor text says "ubuntu bugzilla"
<jsgotangco> programs may mean some applications
<mdke> dsas, oh good, that's an easy one. thanks
<dsas> and that link uses an entity which goes to https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bugs rather than straight to the ubuntu-docs bug bit
<dsas> that may take slightly longer to solve though :)
<mdke> about 5 seconds longer :)
<dsas> ok - wasn't sure whether or not you'd bother making a new entity or something - no idea how long that takes either though :)
<mdke> yeah I've made a new one, thanks
* mdke goes shopping
<jsgotangco> gyahhh
<jsgotangco> hrmm are we really sticking to xchat gnome :/
<mdke> hope so, I really like it
<dsas> me too
<dsas> what does "NO STATUS" mean in the desktop starter guide status page? There's some content in the guide, so is the status out of date, or has there been no decision on what wants doing with that content? 
<mdke> tbh, that status page is not really updated
<mdke> i might get round to it later
<dsas> ok, just wondering.
<dsas> would anyone happen to know if ubuntu abides by the lsb filesystem hierarchy standard, or the debian one?
<dsas> actually I guess i'd be better asking that in -devel
<dsas> mdke: ping
<lambert> how does one redirect from one page to another, just add comments or is there a way the page automatically loads the newer page?
<dsas> lambert: in the page just write #REDIRECT NewPage
<lambert> neat, if one wanted to see the old page is it possible?
<dsas> not really
<dsas> You'd have to do append ?action=raw on the end of the old url.
<dsas> or ?action=edit to edit it
<jsgotangco> i gotta crash
<jsgotangco> good night
<dsas> jsgotangco: night
<Bonzodog> I have an interesting question: how would you lot feel about the forums tweaker team getting involved with the doc team, led by arnieboy?
<Bonzodog> Arnieboy is tweaker team lead who are responsible for the how-to sections of the forum
<lambert> I see a lot of pages with just a simple quick tip like this one/
<lambert> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HideRecentDocumentsHowto
<lambert> Is there a page where these can be consolidate to or maybe an idea of consolidating these and redirecting them to a "quick tip" type page/
<lambert> If someone gets a chance, just curious if this is a good or bad idea/
<lambert> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuickTips
<lambert> Would page get to long and a better idea be more like the wifidocs section, single page that links to multiple pages
<Kinnison> ciau now
<mdke> lambert, i think it's best to have separate pages, because then they show up in searches. otherwise, a user looking for an answer might not see it
<mdke> lambert, we can include cool tips in the desktop guide though
<onovy> hi
<onovy> why is not gnome-applets in dapper translatable? (in launchapad) https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+source/gnome-applets/+translations - in breezy it is
<mdke> onovy, dapper is not ready for translation yet
<crimsun> we haven't gotten to string freeze yet, correct?
<onovy> so if i want translate something i can translate it in breezy?
<mdke> crimsun, don't think so. Certainly not doc freeze
<onovy> and it will be (maybe) merged?
<mdke> onovy, yep
<onovy> ok, thx byr
<onovy> *bye
<theCore> LaserJock, hi
<LaserJock> theCore: hi, how's it going?
<theCore> great!, you?
<LaserJock> just got back from a conference
<theCore> (btw, I got my new hard drive!)
<LaserJock> a little tired but it was good
<LaserJock> cool
<theCore> I finish installing some apps and I'm going to work on the PG
<LaserJock> great
#ubuntu-doc 2006-02-10
<Madpilot> mdke: ping
<Madpilot> mdke: new GPG key is at Launchpad & on the keyservers, so if you could talk to elmo or whoever about commit-rights, that'd be cool. thanks.
<theCore> LaserJock, I'm up again!
<LaserJock> great!
<lambert> If someone references a trademark name on the wiki, (is windows trademarked?) does the trademark need to be noted?
<Kyral> lambert: Like?
<Kyral> lambert: you can say "Windows" without the TM
<lambert> kyral: If someone said "users of the windows operating system might find this next hint ...."
<Kyral> oh yah thats fine
<lambert> any situation where a trademark would be needed?
<Kyral> uhh
<lambert> just curious 
<Kyral> IANAL
* lambert has to find dictionary of acronymns
<Kyral> I Am Not A Laywer
<theCore_> I wouldn't bother too much about the Windows trademark
<LaserJock> theCore: so are you able to work on the packaging guide now that you've got a new hard drive?
<theCore> i'm working on it
<theCore> I'm doing an intro about the various skills you need to do packaging
<LaserJock> oh cool, what section would it go in?
<theCore> Getting Started ?
<LaserJock> sounds good, what kind of skills are you thinking of?
<theCore> make, autoconf ( the very basic ), diff, patch, etc...
<theCore> apt
<jsgotangco> :D
<crimsun> I'd advocate autoconf being in the more advanced section
<crimsun> make, diff, and patch-- yes
<LaserJock> theCore: hmm, we need to be careful not to attempt too much so that we can't get it done for Dapper or overwhelm the reader before the even get started with the packaging
<crimsun> right, that's why I think autoconf belongs in a more advanced setion
<crimsun> section^
<theCore> LaserJock, I just made some really quick intros with some references
<theCore> crimsun, I just talked about how to make and use configure script
<LaserJock> sounds good, I think a reference with a quick example would be good
<LaserJock> it is easy to want to explain "everything" about packaging but that would really include way too much material.
<LaserJock> also keep in mind that there will be an Ubuntu Developer's Reference for dapper too
<LaserJock> so we want to keep the guide style
<LaserJock> theCore: but I think it is a good idea, send me the patches when you have a chance
<theCore> np
<LaserJock> crimsun: have you had a chance to take a look at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html ?
<crimsun> LaserJock: yeah, I have; I'll send some patches later
<LaserJock> crimsun: very cool, thank you so much
<theCore> I must go, cya later
<theCore> LaserJock, I will send you the patch tomorrow
<kagou> hi
<kagou> i'm searching how translation process is working ...
<dsas> kagou: I don't think the docs are ready to be translated yet
<dsas> kagou: Presuming you did mean translating the ubuntu documentation?
<kagou> ok dsas, yes , ubuntu-documentation
<kagou> the job is done with rosetta ?
<dsas> kagou: Yeah, that's the usual way of doing it for ubuntu
<dsas> kagou: I think some of the docs will be ready soon.
<jsgotangco> not yet but mdke already created POT files for it
<kagou> is there specific mailing/list or chan for french translator?! i'v just found  #ubuntu-translators
<Madpilot> kagou: there's also #ubuntu-fr, you might ask there
<kagou> nothing in this chan Madpilot just users needing help 
<kagou> i'm waiting for seb128 
<dsas> kagou: There's two mailing lists, I guess https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-fr-l10n is the translation team one.
<kagou> great !
<dsas> kagou: I'd guess https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-fr is user help but in French
<kagou> yes dsas
<mdke> morning
<jsgotangco> hi mdke 
<jsgotangco> :)
<mdke> hiya
* mdke wants feedback on the patch he just posted to the mailing list
<jsgotangco> these language bugs....are we still responsible for these?
<mdke> yes we are
<mdke> but I will close them as wontfix soon
<jsgotangco> yeah ok
<mdke> because I certainly don't think they are important enough to justify an upload to breezy-changes
<jsgotangco> beacuse i have no idea what to do with these
<jsgotangco> no they're trivial
<mdke> yep. the docs in those languages still work
<jsgotangco> i'll just have dinner first and let's talk about stuff more
<mdke> okay, i should be around for a bit later
<jsgotangco> no problem its only 7pm here anyways
<mdke> do you guys think that we should have an entry in the desktopguide about using nautilus as root
<mdke> ?
<mdke> I can't really think of many good reasons
* mdke is tempted to take it out
<jsgotangco> yuck
<jsgotangco> yeah
<mdke> ok, taken out
<mdke> jsgotangco, did you have any time to look at that tips and tricks patch I sent to the mailing list?
<jsgotangco> yeah
<siretart> mdke: around?
<siretart> could anyone please look at bug #30563
<siretart> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-docs/+bug/30563
<mdke> ok
<mdke> oh bloody hell
<jsgotangco> we've seen this in a lot of translated docs
<mdke> that's the third dup in a week
<siretart> I'm deploying ubuntu/breezy in an internet cafe (upgrade from sarge) and I get these very annoying errors
<jsgotangco> yeah
<mdke> siretart, how annoying?
<siretart> oh. sorry if this is a dup, but I didn't find others
<mdke> if you think it's worth another upload to breezy-updates, we can fix it
<siretart> mdke: well, our admin mailing list is spammed with these messages
<siretart> mdke: it looks to me like the xml files are faulty, and they don't look like they are very hard to fix
<mdke> no they are easy to fix
<mdke> but we'd need to upload to breezy-updates
<siretart> mdke: now I have 2 options: roll my own ubuntu-docs package for local use, or fix it in ubuntu
<siretart> mdke: thats no problem
<jsgotangco> it seems only translated docs are affectede
<mdke> alright, I'll fix it, and talk to Kamion about an upload
<siretart> as long as the patch is sufficiently short
<siretart> mdke: do you prepare uploads and need just a sponsor?
<mdke> yep
<siretart> mdke: or does kamion does the 'packaging'?
<mdke> i'll do it
<siretart> mdke: I can sponsor you as well
<siretart> if kamion is not around. kamion has to review it, touhg ;)
<mdke> no problem, but I'll talk to Kamion/mdz about the upload because they need to confirm it
<siretart> tough
<siretart> yes
<mdke> siretart, ok, I'll ping you when I'm done
<siretart> mdke: could you please give me your corrected package so that I can install it locally (for testing and until the official package hits the mirrors)
<mdke> sure, and you can upload it too :D
<siretart> ok. thank you very much
<mdke> np
<mdke> jsgotangco, did you have any time to look at that tips and tricks patch I sent to the mailing list?
* mdke waits for new package to build
<jsgotangco> mdke, yeah
<mdke> any thoughts?
<jsgotangco> but i dont understand a thing about qanda sets
<jsgotangco> you want me to apply it to my WC?
<mdke> jsgotangco, open it in yelp, and see which of the sections in the tips and tricks chapter looks better
<jsgotangco> ok hold on
<jsgotangco> goodbye.quanda.diff?
<lambert> Is there a way to number headers on the wiki so they don't duplicate in the TOC?
<mdke> lambert, can you give us an example?
<lambert> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WirelessTroubleshootingGuide
<lambert> from personal experience, I like and think it's easier in headers
<lambert> to also be numbered as font difference isn't that drastic to separate
<lambert> areas
<lambert> just makes it an easier read
<mdke> oh i see what you mean
<jsgotangco> mdke, this looks better
<mdke> no, there is no way to do that, afaik. Best to leave the numbers of the headings I think
<mdke> jsgotangco, the first of the three sections looks better?
<jsgotangco> instead of QA you made it to a numbered list
<jsgotangco> this is cleaner
<mdke> yay
<jsgotangco> +1
<jsgotangco> are you committing this?
<mdke> i will, after a few more people give feedback
<mdke> tbh, I've already done the rest of the chapter like that and done quick a few modifications of tips
<mdke> siretart, have a look at http://doc.ubuntu.com/debs/breezy-updates/ for me?
<mdke> and anyone else who fancies testing it
<jsgotangco> you created a new package?
<mdke> i fixed that bug, i hope
<mdke> siretart, works here. I think you can upload it and we'll bug Kamion/mdz tomorrow
<siretart> mdke: will look at it shortly. I'm having here unexpected dpkg errors, which I want to investigate first
<mdke> argh, with that package?
<mdke> surely not
<siretart> with dpkg itself. it spits me an assertion error
<mdke> ok
<jsgotangco> works for me too
* mdke is pretty sure he hasn't buggered anything up
<siretart> but diffs looks good. will install that package here
<mdke> yep, then run your cronjob
<siretart> it's not really a cronjob. we are using cfengine(cfexecd) here ;)
<mdke> well run "sudo scrollkeeper-rebuilddb -q" or whatever it is
<jsgotangco> mdke, i've added you as lp doc admin
<mdke> ok, thanks.
<jsgotangco> we're not worthy!
<siretart> wah, because of status NEEDINFO, bugs do not show in the bugs overview of a package
<siretart> *sigh*
<mdke> siretart, or in searches *wink*
<siretart> mdke: ok, your package works for me. thanks a lot
<mdke> siretart, good, will you upload it?
<siretart> will do shortly
<siretart> mdke: I assume these issues are already fixed in dapper, no?
<siretart> mdke: your changelog does not mention the removal of generic/faqguide/ro/faqguide-ro.omf
<siretart> mdke: I'm not sure if mdz or Kamion will approve this, unless you talk to then in advance
<mdke> siretart, I'll talk to them
<mdke> siretart, as for dapper, we don't have any translations there yet
<siretart> ok
<mdke> siretart, did you upload already? I've sent them an email
<siretart> mdke: ah, so its okay to upload. ok, will do so now
<mdke> siretart, thanks
<siretart> mdke: besides, why did you remove that file?
<mdke> siretart, because it was empty, and scrollkeeper didn't like that
<siretart> ah, okay
<siretart> allright then
<mdke> there is a bug in rosetta which prevents us from using romanian translations, unfortunately
<mdke> that's why the file was empty
<siretart> mdke: thats an pretty awful bit upload. this is my third try :/
<siretart> s/bit/big/
<mdke> siretart, yeah, the source package is offensively large. Sorry about that
<siretart> mdke: my upload has been rejected
<mdke> siretart, damn. no doubt because I didn't sign it
<mdke> are you able to sign it?
<mdke> i did the package on a computer without a gpg key
<mdke> afk for a while
<mdke> siretart, any luck?
<siretart> mdke: no, my upload gets rejected
<siretart> mdke: obviously I may not upload to breezy-updates any longer
<mdke> siretart, oh, you think it isn't because I didn't sign the package?
<siretart> mdke: but since it is sunday today, I wait until tomorrow and but #launchpad about that
<siretart> mdke: certainly I signed my package
<siretart> but it got rejected
<mdke> ah, you signed it. Ok, np
<mdke> i'll just highlight Colin again and let him know
<siretart> yes, that would be best I think
<mdke> siretart, ok thanks for your help. Good luck with uploading tomorrow
<siretart> thanks :)
<siretart> mdke: I installed your package in my local repo here, works nice
<siretart> mdke: thanks for the package
<mdke> np
<mdke> heya Madpilot 
<Madpilot> hi mdke - can't stay, but thanks for the commit email - sorry for the trouble...
<Madpilot> later, all
#ubuntu-doc 2006-02-11
<lambert> What should happen with wiki pages which appear old and outdated?
<lambert> Such as pages that appear to be release specific
<lambert> such as instructions for Warty?
<lambert> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/3Ware9xxxAsRoot
<LaserJock> lambert: are they not needed for Dapper?
<lambert> Not 100% sure on link I provided as it talks about raid and I can't test
<lambert> But if it is outdated,  should it be cleaned, removed from CategoryCleanup and is there an archive place
<lambert> I noticed Category
<lambert> Archive, what goes there?
<LaserJock> lambert: I'm not sure. You might email the ubunt-doc list. It is an interesting issue.
* Kinnison goes for breakfast
<Kamping_Kaiser> i just noticed the keysigning instructions on launchpad are realy hard to follow. is there any help on that, or shall i write some?
<hawking> how can i have a look at root mail at ubuntu? I mean when I set a program to mail root@localhost will I Get mails to /var/mail/user and the user is the one I've created at initial ubuntu setup
<Kamping_Kaiser> check /etc/alias
<hawking> I don't have /etc/alias
<hawking> Kamping_Kaiser any ideaS?
<Kamping_Kaiser>  /etc/aliases
<hawking> root : user
<hawking> so that should work ok right?
<jjesse> how do you rename a wiki page?  for example w.u.c/adepthowto should read AdeptHowTo for correct CamelCase
<mhz> jjesse: you can easily rename a wiki page BUT iirc, we've been asked to keep old pagename and redirect it new page name
<mhz> instead
<mhz> this way, users already subscribed to old page can still be notified about 'redirect' and users who have alrady added the bookmark of old page, still get to newpage
<mhz> jjesse: please tell me if i explained itclearly ;)
<mhz> \later tell Kaiser_Sleeps there is a how to in the wiki
<mhz> .oO(ohh, we dont' have such feature in our bot)
* mdke encourages people to reply to his email about qanda in the desktopguide
<theCore> LaserJock, hi
<theCore> I got a 7k diff file to send you
<LaserJock> theCore: sweet
<theCore> I'm not finished working on the intro section yet
<theCore> i just maked the ``make'' intro and a little bit of ``autoconf''
<LaserJock> fine
<LaserJock> theCore: did you send your diff yet?
<theCore> no, I'm still working on it
<LaserJock> ok, np
<theCore> I could send you what I have, if you want
<LaserJock> that's ok, send it to me when your done if you want. I don't care. I won't have time to work on the packaging guide for a while yet
<theCore> yay! my diff is now 9k
<LaserJock> cool
<theCore> I send it to you
<LaserJock> ok
<theCore> LaserJock, sent
<LaserJock> theCore: great, thanks
<LaserJock> theCore: ok, I got the diff. I will probably tweak it a little and add something for patch and diff and then commit it
<theCore> LaserJock, np
<theCore> LaserJock, ping me when you commit it
<LaserJock> theCore: are you subscribed to ubuntu-doc-commits ? That is the easiest way to know if I've commited something
<LaserJock> theCore: It might be tomorrow by the time I get to it. Work has just increased and I got a new iMac to set up etc.
<theCore> ok, then I will monitor -commit 
<LaserJock> theCore: I can ping you too but I didn't know if you knew about -commit
<theCore> how the iMac is, compared to Ubuntu?
<LaserJock> I haven't been able to set it up yet. I have to get a bunch of other work done first :(
<LaserJock> but the box is sitting right next to me
<LaserJock> :(
<LaserJock> but it is one of the new Intel iMacs so I can't put Ubuntu on it.
<theCore> does the CPU is a x86 ?
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> I think anyway. It is a dual core
<theCore> maybe, Ubuntu i386 will work on it
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> it doesn't have a BIOS
<LaserJock> it has something called EFI instead and it is not compatible with Ubuntu yet
<LaserJock> plus there isn't a graphics driver for the video card I don't think
<theCore> the number of high-end users switching the Mac is quite impressive
<theCore> Apple is really getting the low and the high end market
<LaserJock> our lab has completly switched to Macs for desktop use
<LaserJock> Apple has really gotten into the science/academic market. In my department I think Apple has the majority of desktop computers.
<crimsun> due to their big server push?
<LaserJock> laptops mostly
<crimsun> interesting
<LaserJock> it is the "in" thing for profs
<LaserJock> I just got back from a conference and very few of the presenters didn't use a Mac laptop
<crimsun> yeah, it's that way here, too
<crimsun> I'm in the minority now, heh, with Ubuntu running on the X41-2527
<LaserJock> one of the computational groups uses a lot of Mac servers but they are going more to clusters of AMD64s
<crimsun> yeah, amd64s are a lot more cost-effective
<LaserJock> but the reason my boss went to Apple was the *nix base. He can do most of the linux things he used to do but also have MS Office and Acrobat, etc.
<LaserJock> and money isn't a problem because it all comes from grants anyway
<theCore> However, the problem with Mac it is that they have many unknown holes which wait to be discovered.  There are rumours which indicate that MacOS X has many holes like Windows
<LaserJock> theCore: but since many of the people are moving from Windows to Mac they are used to it ;-)
<theCore> lol, yeah
<theCore> personally, I wouldn't switch to a Mac, even if I find them sexy
<LaserJock> well, I didn't have much choice in the matter
<LaserJock> but I think I'll like it for work
#ubuntu-doc 2006-02-12
<hawking>  I was trying to compile nessus from source and as compiling nessus-core I got this error  comm.c: In function comm_update_ui: comm.c:99: error: label at end of compound statement can someone help?
<LaserJock> hawking: you will probably find much more help in #ubuntu-motu than here
<jjesse> hiya LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi jjesse
<Madpilot> anyone here with admin rights over wiki.u.c?
<jsgotangco> none of us do afaik
<Madpilot> jsgotangco: see the email I just sent to -doc for why I'm asking - vandalism on the wiki...
<jsgotangco> hold on
<Madpilot> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FirefoxNewVersion?action=info
<jsgotangco> oh great
<Madpilot> look at the edits by "Niggerplease"
<jsgotangco>  The following is for extreme masochists who have nothing better to do than compile and install inferior software all day. Your best bet is to use a well-writen, professional OS such as Microsoft Windows or Apple's OS X. Thank you.
<Madpilot> yeah - and the earlier "edits" consisted of deleting the entire page and telling people to install a "real" OS...
* mhz gets very pissed off with vadalism
<mhz> +n
<mhz> This is another reason why I re-propose to accept only real NameLastnames over nicknames
<mhz> this way we all (diff countries) can notice who is playing around 
<jsgotangco> you'll probalby need to have LP for that
<jsgotangco> but i can always use anther name
<jsgotangco> BillGates
<jsgotangco> WilliamGates
<LaserJock> SteveJobs
<mhz> jsgotangco: yes, that's my point
<jsgotangco> WilliamGatesIII
<mhz> people are so used to use nicknames
<mhz> but if I see 'non-serious' names I can immediately check
<mhz> jsgotangco: remember this guys who use Moin as his own personal blog and his wiki name was aLbeRTOyoUKnoWMe
<mhz> or something like that
<mhz> I found no policy argument to face him ant ask him to get lost or get serious
<robotgeek> we have a volunteer for the Ubuntu Cli Guide :)
<Madpilot> odd Lauchpad/wiki error - I've no idea what the guy's doing wrong - last post here: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=126572
<robotgeek> isn't that part of the faq guide? /me gets all confused
<jsgotangco> ubuntu cli guide?
<robotgeek> jsgotangco: basically a cli way of doing things, talk to bur[n] er 
<Snake__> Everyone here?
<robotgeek> Snake__: wait for kkhatman
<bur[n] er> sure
<robotgeek> :)
<Madpilot> meeting?
<Snake__> Theres kkathman 
<robotgeek> Madpilot: we are the Kubuntu guide ppl. we are now a team of 4
<Snake__> Hehe
<Madpilot> cool - have fun :)
<robotgeek> Madpilot: do we have to finish everything before the feature freeze?
<Madpilot> not sure - I wasn't really involved when Breezy was going thru it's various freezes
<Madpilot> isn't there a seperate Doc Freeze?
<robotgeek> Madpilot: hmm, just worried cause that's 22'nd
<robotgeek> anyways, lets start shooting ideas ppl. 
<Madpilot> March 23rd is Doc String Freeze - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseSchedule
<bur[n] er> ok.. here's an idea, where can I start writing? :)
<Snake__> Alright, well MP3s, Flash, and Java to start.
<kkathman> bur[n] er:  both you and Snake__ have to become familiar with docbook too quite quickly
<Snake__> Im note taking, so go on
<robotgeek> bur[n] er: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/GettingStarted Bookmark this
<kkathman> thanx robotgeek you scooped me on it
<robotgeek> bur[n] er: Snake__ it's pretty easy, not a big deal. you can pick it up as you write. 
<kkathman> yanno...we might just turn the common tasks over to bur[n] er and Snake__
* bur[n] er is familiar with reading docbook ;)  do I have to create the .xml myself or is there a docbook tool?
<kkathman> bur[n] er:  I use kate and the tools that robotgeek can give you
<Madpilot> 99% of the docbook markup I've produced is just from copying the existing stuff... :P
<bur[n] er> I can do boring stuff, I don't mind ;)
<Snake__> I was just taking notes in common text format...i'm not to familer with XML
<robotgeek> http://robotgeek.org/wiki/Main/KubuntuDesktopGuide is what I am using, i'll wikify this soon
<robotgeek> Snake__: i think you are slightly familiar with html?
<Snake__> robotgeek: very familer, I just down know the layout of XML
<Snake__> Don't*
<robotgeek> Snake__: no need to worry, you can copy from existing stuff, that's the way i do it :)
<bur[n] er> robotgeek: so that docbook can be produced from a wiki?
<robotgeek> bur[n] er: no, for progress and stuff
<bur[n] er> aww... ok
* Snake__ boots up kate
<Snake__> where can I get a xml file to look off of
<bur[n] er> sounds like the install guide is where help is needed
<Snake__> Oh crap................
<robotgeek> Snake__: from the svn repos, check out the source. for now, http://robotgeek.no-ip.info/ubuntu-doc/kubuntu/desktopguide/C/getting-started.xml
<Snake__> robotgeek: should I read all that over??
<Snake__> or steal the source
<bur[n] er> awww... docbook is easy :)
<robotgeek> Snake__: hmm, you will probably need the source
<Snake__> Yea
<Snake__> p
<Snake__> Uhh im not slowing you guys down am I?
<robotgeek> Snake__: no, take your time
<Snake__> robotgeek: lol we got what...1 month to write it?
<kkathman> but with 4 of us...shouldnt be too bad
<robotgeek> Snake__: yeah, no big deal. 
<Snake__> So where do I begin editing? 
<Snake__> <chapter id="getting-started-chap"> 
<Snake__> there?
<robotgeek> Snake__: hmm, i am not sure who is doing what. 
<kkathman> robotgeek:  well thats something we need to work out
* bur[n] er should probably login to KDE to write this stuff ;) bbiab
<kkathman> I'm willing to hand off common tasks
<Snake__> lol
<kkathman> cuz alot of that is multimedia which I dont have
<robotgeek> okay. no problem
<Kaiser_Sleeps> mhz isnt here :/
<Kaiser_Sleeps> *waves to people who are*
<Snake__> this really makes no sense......none of gettingstarted.xml is formated....is that right?
<kkathman> I'd say...first lets stick to whats in the ubuntu guide...at least if push comes to shove at Doc Freeze it will be reasonable
<Snake__> or is my browser screwy
<kkathman> BUT
<kkathman> we should strive to expand
<robotgeek> Snake__: open it with kate
<Snake__> robotgeek: I did and I see a whole lot of formating that not showing up in the browser...
* bur[n] er is all about multimedia!
<Madpilot> Snake__: AFAIK Firefox can't handle DocBook XML
<Snake__> im in konq
<robotgeek> Snake__: yeah, browser won't handle it
<Snake__> robotgeek: ah okay
<Madpilot> ah - Gnome user here, never used Konq...
<bur[n] er> anyone know if it's easy to add docbook support to apache?  how are docbook xml files parsed.. I'd like to see a formatted local copy :)
<kkathman> bur[n] er: I tried using Quanta and its too hard....Kate is the best option,, then let robotgeek configure your ./mk
<robotgeek> bur[n] er: essentially you need to have a XSLT style sheet to format it into html
<kkathman> thats already in your system most likely
<Snake__> Oh this is pretty easy
<Snake__> its just going to take a bit to get used to the new language
<bur[n] er> robotgeek: know of any already written? :)
<robotgeek> bur[n] er: doc.ubuntu.com, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Repository
<bur[n] er> thanks, if i'm too off-topic here, let me know...  
<kkathman> bur[n] er:  I spent about a week trying to get Quanta configured :(
<robotgeek> bur[n] er: nah, you are fine
<Snake__> robotgeek: how am I to know these shortcuts, like &kubuntu-wiki
<Snake__> etc
<kkathman> robotgeek:  did you tell them how to get the snv?
<kkathman> svn
<robotgeek> Snake__: bur[n] er get the sources here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Repository
<robotgeek> test, and then submit a patch to the mailing list
<Snake__> Whats this for?
<bur[n] er> aww... that's the money link robotgeek :)  thanks for that
<robotgeek> Snake__: that contains all the files (from everyone who is writing)
<Snake__> robotgeek: How many are working on this??
<robotgeek> Snake__: right now, only 4 of us. but it's easier on the whole for everyone to get updates and stuff, and for other people who might want to contribute
<Snake__> Ah alright
<Snake__> I already have subverison
<Madpilot> Snake__: the main Ubuntu (Gnome) side has maybe a dozen more people, if that
<bur[n] er> is ubuntu-doc going to be the same svn module for Kubuntu docs?
<robotgeek> bur[n] er: i lost you. if you mean if the root folder is ubuntu-doc, then yes
<Madpilot> bur[n] er: inside that, there's ubuntu & kubuntu folders (among other folders...)
<Snake__> robotgeek: how do I know what the variables are in docbook?
* bur[n] er is slowly grabbing the repository and hasn't really checked it out yet
<robotgeek> Snake__: if you check up the start of the xml file, it references to some ../../lib/kde.ent or something like that. 
<Snake__> robotgeek: okay, thank you
<Snake__> This repo is huge
* Snake__ only has a 12 gig hdd ahhh!
<robotgeek> Snake__: 190 MB, i think. 
<Snake__> robotgeek: im really sorry but I dont quite understand how this svn thing works...what exactly do we do with it, and thank your for being patient
<bur[n] er> I know I'm the new guy... but shouldn't the ubuntu and kubuntu directories have the same subfolders...  according to the wiki, ubuntu has quicktour and kubuntu quickguide... are these very different?
<bur[n] er> Snake__: svn allows you to sync a folder to a repository to get the very very latest development code
<Madpilot> Snake__: svn's built-in help is mostly readable - "svn help" in terminal
<Madpilot> or "man svn"
<Snake__> bur[n] er: okay, so what, I edit code, upload it, everyone downloads? or what
<bur[n] er> Snake__: when you use svn to checkout something, it downloads all files in that directory and you can edit it locally...  When you are done, you sync to the directory again to get everyone else's changes, then you create a "diff" file... aka "patch"
<bur[n] er> you submit that "patch" to someone who has svn write access
<Snake__> Okay, in our case who has that access
<Madpilot> Snake__: commit (upload) rights will come later - you can sent your diff files to the ubuntu-docs mailing list
<bur[n] er> (mailing list presumably... as we peons only have read ;)
<kkathman> Snake__:   please take some notes and I'll touch base with you tomorrow...i have an early appt in the morning..so must get ot bed :)
<bur[n] er> Snake__: make sense?
<Snake__> bur[n] er: kind of. So I download the latest source, do my changes locally, then upload the changed files called "Patchs" ro a mailing list?
<bur[n] er> exactly
<Snake__> to*
<Snake__> where is this mailing list?
<Madpilot> Snake__: generating a .diff and such is covered here, as well as just connecting: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Repository
<bur[n] er> and if your patch is accepted, then others will get it the next time they "svn up"
<robotgeek> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Contribute gives you the nice details
<Madpilot> Snake__: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Contact <-- mailing list info here
<Snake__> to download  the latest patch, I use this right
<Snake__> ~/Projects/kubuntuguide$ svn checkout https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk kubuntuguide   
<Snake__> (Yes I told it to save to kubuntuguide instead of ubuntu-doc)
<Madpilot> not once you're set up - just "svn up" works
<Madpilot> in whatever directory you've got the stuff in
<robotgeek> Madpilot: can i create  a status page on the wiki?
<robotgeek> KubuntuDesktopGuide types?
<Snake__> Wow....thats amazing
<Snake__> lol
<Snake__> snake@Laptop:~/Projects/kubuntuguide/kubuntuguide$ svn up
<Snake__> At revision 2386.
<Madpilot> robotgeek: I don't see why not...
<Snake__> right?
<bur[n] er> ooh... according to that Contribute link... yelp works with docbook files :)  I never knew
<Madpilot> Snake__: that's what I've got
<Snake__> Madpilot: alrighty
<robotgeek> cool, brb
<jsgotangco> robotgeek, hmmmm server oriented i guess
* jsgotangco just came from lunch
<robotgeek> jsgotangco: hmm, yeah. that too. maybe we can share that section as an addendum between ubuntu/kubuntu
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> if you can still do work for the destkop guide, you can probably add that
<jsgotangco> if not, we can probably add it on the quickguide
<robotgeek> bur[n] er: ^^
<Snake__> Should I supscribe to this mailing list?
<jsgotangco> sure
<Snake__> jsgotangco: is that to me?
<Snake__> lol
<Madpilot> Snake__: it's not usually high-volume, and it's the easiest way to get your patches/diffs applied
<jsgotangco> Snake__, as the current list admin, yeah :)
<bur[n] er> Snake__: got a link for the ML? I wanna subscribe ;)
<Snake__> Ya'll have to pardon my stupidity, i'm a noob to all this, and i'm getting hit with it all very very fast :)
<Snake__> bur[n] er: 
<Snake__> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-doc
<jsgotangco> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-doc
<Snake__> alright im giving you guys my non-proxy email, dont spam me :P
<jsgotangco> its relatively low-traffic
<jsgotangco> compared to -users
<Snake__> Would you like to receive list mail batched in a daily digest?
<Snake__> yes or no?
<jsgotangco> no
<Snake__> Okay
<robotgeek> Snake__: about 5-10 emails a day, i prefer to get them individually, threads and stuff
<jsgotangco> like i said, its relatively low traffic no need for digest
<Snake__> haha my gmail is gonna fill up quick
<Snake__> hold on im gonna make a new account for thist
<robotgeek> Snake__: i use my gmail, it doesn't fill up :)
<bur[n] er> Snake__: you have like 2.6 gigs with gmail!
<Snake__> lol
<Snake__> :)
* bur[n] er invites Snake__ to use filters
<Madpilot> Snake__: just create a new set of tags/filters, it's really not a high-volume list
<Snake__> what should I be filtering?
<Snake__> (whats the list email)
<robotgeek> Snake__: for gmail
* bur[n] er has Snake__'s first album... getting gmail into Kontact and filtering ;)
<bur[n] er> s/album/article
<Snake__> I never understood what that ment... bur[n] er 
<Madpilot> Snake__: filter on "ubuntu-doc@lists.ubuntu.com"
<Snake__> okay thank you Madpilot 
<Snake__> That I understand :)
<jsgotangco> ill go back to work first, just ping me up if any problems arise in your list subscription
<Madpilot> I tag it with "UbDocs" when it comes it, helps me keep my Inbox semi-organized
<Madpilot> *comes in, rather....
<jsgotangco> heh tell that to a person subscribed to .*
<robotgeek> Madpilot: i think i'll create it as a subpage of DocumentationTeam
<Madpilot> jsgotangco: those of you insane enough to subscribe to the entirety of wiki.u.c deserve it... :P
<Snake__> Well I think I got it
<jsgotangco> yeah your brother's wiki spamming episdoe was scary
<Madpilot> jsgotangco: even he's not insane enough to sub to the entire thing...
<jsgotangco> that was scary, he was all alone with the wiki during the holidays
<Madpilot> heh. minor surgery + holidays meant he didn't have a lot else to do :D
<Snake__> How do I upload my patchs? Email them to ubuntu-doc@lists.ubuntu.com in a attachment?
<Snake__> orwhat
<Madpilot> Snake__: yes
<Snake__> Alrighty dity
<Snake__> notes taken :)
<Snake__> robotgeek: anything else I need?
<robotgeek> Snake__: hold on a moment
<Snake__> Yep
<robotgeek> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/KubuntuDesktopGuide bur[n] er Snake__ (take your picks :) )
<Snake__> robotgeek: so theres no way to preview what im doing with these things?
<robotgeek> Snake__: of course there is :)
<Madpilot> Snake__: you can launch yelp & preview, or whatever help viewer KDE uses
<Snake__> Ummm
<Snake__> huh?
<Snake__> lol
<robotgeek> Madpilot: hmm, i did not know that. i always run the ./mk script to convert to html :)
<Snake__> robotgeek: ill handle games, and most music (Except burning)
<Snake__> to start with
<Madpilot> robotgeek: "yelp /path/to/foo.xml"
<Snake__> does yelp come with kubuntu
<robotgeek> Madpilot: thanks :)
<robotgeek> Snake__: do you have a wiki page yet? 
<Snake__> robotgeek: uhhh...i guess not?
<Snake__> lol
<robotgeek> *hint*
<Snake__> I think I do, but I didnt know what to put there
<Madpilot> robotgeek: note that you have to launch yelp w/ the top-level xml file, or it errors out - so desktop.xml rather than getting-started.xml, for example...
<Snake__> robotgeek: this is mine https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kenminardo
<Snake__> I didn't know what to do with it
<robotgeek> Snake__: no, just to link you up. 
<Madpilot> Snake__: your life story, why Ubuntu is wonderful, etc :P
<Madpilot> an email adress and notes about what your IRC nick is 
<Snake__> Alright
<Snake__> im half way there :P
<jsgotangco> life story? seriously
<robotgeek> Snake__: so, you are taking the common tasks except the cd burning?
<Madpilot> jsgotangco: you did see the :P on the end, didn't you?
<robotgeek> bur[n] er: what section might you be interested in? and wiki page?
<Snake__> robotgeek: ill probly end up with most of them, I would take office as well, but for the time being, just mark me down for the 2...
<jsgotangco> yeah
<robotgeek> Snake__: okay
<bur[n] er> i'm lookin ;)  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DerekBuranen
<bur[n] er> I like some of the common tasks, but I can handle any of it
<Snake__> The kubuntu wiki is so much more pretty than ubuntus :)
<robotgeek> Snake__: i am guessing it's just a different css
<Madpilot> Snake__: there's a seperate kubuntu wiki?
<Snake__> robotgeek: it is, butit looks better :)
<Snake__> Madpilot: no, just a diffrent layout
<Madpilot> ah, OK - shiny blooooo graphics, right?
<Snake__> Madpilot: looks like the kubuntu homepage ;)
<Snake__> yep
<bur[n] er> robotgeek: you british?  (custumise as opposed to customize)
<Snake__> bur[n] er: texan ;)
<Madpilot> shiny blooo-ness and smaller font - cool what you can do w/ CSS, isn't it?
<Snake__> very
* bur[n] er wonders if "widgets" should be under Common Tasks, as they're a hot buzz word/fun thing for new users ;)
<Snake__> robotgeek: are you adding in what I wrote for adding/remove/update apps?
<Snake__> Ooooooo
<Snake__> I could do SK....
<robotgeek> referesh, and add what you want to do :)
<robotgeek> bur[n] er: i studied the Queens English for 21 years :)
<Snake__> robotgeek: I hope that doesnt mean im taking all common tasks!? 
<Snake__> perhaps be more specific?? Music -- Snake__ Videos -- Soandso?
<robotgeek> Snake__: just edit and add whatever you feel like doing, i'll do the rest after you are done. 
<Snake__> it would give us a better idea as to who is doing what, don't you agree
<robotgeek> yeah, feel free to edit and correct :)
<Snake__> bur[n] er: what are you doing, ill edit it in while im doing mine
<Snake__> robotgeek: is my guide to adding/removing and updating apps getting in there? If so ill mark it off as done.
<robotgeek> Snake__: yes, the section on "Adding, Removing and Updating Applications"
<Snake__> Thats what I assumed
<Snake__> okay
<Snake__> bur[n] er: ya die on me?
<robotgeek> Snake__: i am going to have to do all the screenshots in Dapper, tho
<bur[n] er> nah, i'm here... sorry
<bur[n] er> i'm going through it ;)  codecs is easy
<bur[n] er> i'm docbook writing it already
<Snake__> robotgeek: alright, I could get dapper on a virtual PC if it could help..
<robotgeek> bur[n] er: are you a vim guy?
<Snake__> bur[n] er: so your taking codecs?
<robotgeek> http://robotgeek.org/wiki/KubuntuDesktopGuide/CommonTasks is the list of Common Tasks, kkhatman and I came up with. i'll add it in later, so that it gives us a better idea
<Snake__> robotgeek: hows that struture look
<Snake__> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/DocumentationTeam/KubuntuDesktopGuide#preview
<robotgeek> Snake__: i just refreshed the page, looks good
<Snake__> altight
<Snake__> I'm off to bed, tomorrow ill finish up writting this music thing, and try to docbook it :D
<Snake__> night
<bur[n] er> robotgeek: sometimes a vim guy... only when sshing, why?
<Snake|Sleeping> Finally somewhere I can help the community :)
<robotgeek> bur[n] er: xmledit plugin is great
<Snake|Sleeping> robotgeek: we got issues
<robotgeek> Snake|Sleeping: what?
<Snake|Sleeping> This variable thing dont make no sense in docbook
<bur[n] er> robotgeek: right on, thanks for the tip :)  I hope to do a lot of this while actually sitting at my full on X desktop using kate though 
<robotgeek> Snake|Sleeping: hmm, one sec
<Snake|Sleeping> <ulink url="&ubuntu-web;">&ubuntu-web;</ulink>
<Snake|Sleeping> How do you know to call on ubuntu-web
<Snake|Sleeping> its not defined anywhere
<robotgeek> Snake|Sleeping: hmm, it should be in a file ../../../libs/global.ent
<Snake|Sleeping> robotgeek: ah thank you very much
<Snake|Sleeping> robotgeek: so if I wanted to link to the gpl I would do <ulink url="&gpl-url;">GPL</ulink> ?
<robotgeek> Snake|Sleeping: i would think so, i'm a hack at this myself. 
<Snake|Sleeping> heh, well didnt you write the getting-started page??
<robotgeek> Snake|Sleeping: as i said, i mostly editined the Ubuntu Desktop Guide counterpart
<Snake|Sleeping> robotgeek: oh..alright. well I guess we got to learn, and we have 43 days to do it. Does the wiki accept HTML coding?
<bur[n] er> hey Snake|Sleeping, since you're checkin stuff... tell me if <xref linkend="adept"/> is valid ;)
<bur[n] er> the wiki does not
<hustlebird> how do you make windows the default at startup when running with ubunutu?
<Snake|Sleeping> bur[n] er: I have no cluewhat that mans :(
<Snake|Sleeping> means*
<bur[n] er> Snake|Sleeping: nm then ;)  i'll figure it out
<Snake|Sleeping> crap im sleepy
<Snake|Sleeping> lol
<Snake|Sleeping> okay night
<robotgeek> hustlebird: you might want to ask in #ubuntu, that is the support channel
<hustlebird> thanks
<robotgeek> Snake|Sleeping: no html
<robotgeek> Snake|Sleeping: and yes, we'll get it done, not to worry
<Snake|Sleeping> robotgeek: if I may ask, where in dapper is this going??
<robotgeek> later all, i'm going to bed
<Snake|Sleeping> WAiiitt
<Snake|Sleeping> lol
<robotgeek> Snake|Sleeping: the help menu
<Snake|Sleeping> robotgeek: oh okay, so no ones gonna see it?
<Snake|Sleeping> :P
<robotgeek> Snake|Sleeping: i hope people do
<Snake|Sleeping> lol same
<robotgeek> later then, cya tommorow
<Snake|Sleeping> cya
* bur[n] er diffs his first patch ;)
<Snake|Sleeping> ll
<mdke> robotgeek_zzz, did you see that there have been lots of changes to the desktop guide recently? i dunno if you wanna incorporate that into the kubuntu version
<Madpilot> hi mdke
<Madpilot> mdke: so who's got admin rights over wiki.u.c - for banning users/IPs/etc?
<mdke> the admins definitely, henrik probably
<mdke> why?
<mdke> ah, me sees emails
<mdke> yes, LP admins will be able to disable the account
<Madpilot> not the server admins, just wiki or LP admins
<mdke> sorry?
<Madpilot> never mind - it's late :P
<Madpilot> Is there nobody on doc/wiki team who as admin rights over the wiki itself?
<mdke> there are no admin rights on the wiki
<mdke> everyone has the same rights
<mdke> the only extra rights you can have are if you have access to the machine the wiki is hosted on
<mdke> and the server admins have that, and henrik
<mdke> but to disable an account, just talk to the LP guys
<Madpilot> ah - thought it was like Mediawiki, with finer-grained access
<mdke> it can be, but that isn't activated on our wiki
<jsgotangco> moin can have ACLs if needed
<manicka> mdke, has the doc-team clarified it's position on taking data from the udsf and placing it on the wiki... I'm thinking in regard to licensing issues. If there were users with enough energy... could it be done?
<jsgotangco> you can't really stop vandals, the only way would probably lock down a page
<Madpilot> jsgotangco: true, but disabling their accounts could/should be easy
<mdke> manicka, i don't know. The problem is that I think the UDSF is breaking copyright by relicensing material from the forums without author permission
<mdke> i haven't thought about it much tho
<mdke> Madpilot, yes, disabling their LP account will do that
<mdke> shit i have to get to work
<Madpilot> later, mdke
<manicka> when is the next doc-team meeting
<Madpilot> 11th February 2006 - no time posted yet
<Madpilot> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/MeetingAgenda
<manicka> thanks Madpilot :)
<Madpilot> np
<bhuvan> :q
* bhuvan assumed it was a vim session!
<mdke> :)
<hawking> which package should i install for php?
<zac> i have a windows partition set up for my music collection that can't be viewed in ubuntu. is there any way to format a drive to allow for cross-platform access?
<Kamping_Kaiser> fat32
<Kamping_Kaiser> but ubuntu should be able to read ntfs fine
<zac> awesome... i stupidly used ntfs.
<zac> maybe it's because i'm new to linux. don't know how to access the partition if this is the case
<zac> should i just be accessing the ntfs drive through the file browser?
<jsgotangco> you could mount it automatically on startup
<jsgotangco> its all in the help page :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> i prefer the layout of Breezy's quickguide then that of dapper :/ it was easer to find stuff :/
<jsgotangco> really
<Kamping_Kaiser> yeh
* jsgotangco yawns
<jsgotangco> night
<mdke> Kaiser_Sleeps, if you put that in an email to the list with some suggestions, i'm sure people will read it and consider them
<robotgeek> would anyone know where the kde menu entities are located. like "gnome-menus-C.ent", is there a kde-menus-C.ent ?
<robotgeek> mdke: ping :
* Kyral thinks he should work on getting SVN access soon
<jjesse> robotgeek_work i don't know if there is a kde-menus-C.ent
<jjesse> robotgeek_work  if so it would be under kubuntu/build/
<mdke> robotgeek_work, don't think so
<mdke> best to look at some kubuntu docs
<jjesse> the file kde-menus-C.ent in kubuntu/libs is currently empty so i woul assume that there are none
<jjesse> i i don't think I've used menu entities before
<mdke> they can be quite useful if you have frequent instructions to opening programs from menus
* mdke goes home
<robotgeek> jjesse: is it okay to create some?
<robotgeek> mdke: ^ ?
<jjesse> robotgeek: i would assume it would be ok to create them so we can then change the docs to correspond
<robotgeek> jjesse: yeah, i am creating menu entries also, which are xml files. what would be the best way to submit files to be uploaded?
<jjesse> svn upload i think?
<jjesse> so they get added into svn
<robotgeek> no commit rights for me yet, so just mail it in?
<robotgeek> jjesse: ?
<robotgeek> howdy LaserJock 
<LaserJock> hi robotgeek
<robotgeek> howz it going?
<LaserJock> well, it's ok. I just got a new Intel iMac but I'm trying to get it set up so I can do Ubuntu work
<robotgeek> nice
<robotgeek> i saw a google video where someone had put in MS on that
<LaserJock> really? It would take lots of work. I can't put Ubuntu on it yet
<robotgeek> i'll link you, one sec
<robotgeek> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7744932027146565659&q=apple
<robotgeek> this is sony viao running OS X http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7540321621291755467&q=apple
<LaserJock> well, that's a bit different. I want to go the other way around
<robotgeek> what does it do? not boot up?
<LaserJock> yeah, there is no BIOS
<LaserJock> it is an Intel thing called EFI instead
<robotgeek> hmm, okay. wonder how we bypass that
<LaserJock> I think we have to write something that interacts with EFI instead of the BIOS, which I don't think will be that easy
<jjesse> robotgeek: sorry was away, just email ubuntu-docs and soemone will add the files for u
<LaserJock> also the graphics cards, x1600, aren't supported either 
<robotgeek> jjesse: okay, i'll try to keep it under 40 kb this time :)
<LaserJock> would there be any weirdnesses if I commited to the svn repo from a Mac?
<jjesse> not that i know of i use windows sometimes
<LaserJock> no problems with the newline characters or whatever?
<mdke> robotgeek, yes you can create them if you think it will be useful. It might not though: maybe best just to create entities for frequently used menu items in the document itself
<mdke> robotgeek, as for uploading them, just make a patch as usual
<robotgeek> mdke: i am not sure whether i will use them regularly, however it's a nice way to reference applications i think. If we have to make changes, we can make it once and be done with it
* mdke is not sure. the gnome ones are hardly used
<mdke> they are only useful to tell people how to open applications, and it can be done manually quite easily
<robotgeek> the thing is gnome menu entries are present in breezy install, kde has none
<mdke> i dont follow
<mdke> brb, dinner
<robotgeek> mdke: okay
<mhz> robotgeek: booting OSX in x86?
<robotgeek> mhz: yes
<robotgeek> mhz: can i tar.gz my patches and send them in?
<mhz> robotgeek: ohhhh??????
<robotgeek> i have 12 patches :)
<mhz> robotgeek: how do you do install it?
<robotgeek> mhz: hmm, no clue. it's just a google video i saw
<robotgeek> LaserJock: can i tar.gz my patches and send them in? i have 12. 
<LaserJock> for the packaging guide?
<robotgeek> no, for the Kubuntu Desktop Guide. I don't have commit rights yet
<LaserJock> well, I'm not in a good position to be commiting things at the moment. I managed to get svn installed but I'm not sure I trust it just yet. but you should be able to send a tar.gz file to the list ok I would think.
<LaserJock> but make sure to mention what is inside ;-)
<robotgeek> cool
<jjesse> robotgeek: send them to me dirrectly jjesse@iserv.net i'll commit them @ work
<mdke> robotgeek, can't you do one patch?
<robotgeek> mdke: for the whole thing, i can do that too. 
<mdke> that's the best plan
<robotgeek> i tht it ws preffered to send in multiple patches
<mdke> well in this case, it's all the same document right?
<robotgeek> mdke: actually no, multiple files, different stuff
<mdke> ah
<mdke> a patch for each doc I'd say
<robotgeek> yeah, that's how i have it
<robotgeek> i also have a cheap patching script :)
<mdke> 12 docs?!?
<robotgeek> mdke: hmm, the menu files are about 4/5 of them
<robotgeek> 6 actually, and the rest are patches for the rest of the stuff, an entry here and there
<mdke> cool, I'd say separate patches for each document, single patch for menu files
<robotgeek> mdke: hmm, good that you caught me, i was about to press mail :)
<Snake__> robotgeek: Yo
<robotgeek> hey Snake__ 
<Snake__> robotgeek: so I only need to write the XML files, nothing else right?
<robotgeek> Snake__: yes
<Snake__> Alright
<Snake__> robotgeek: whats the script for?
<robotgeek> Snake__: give me a minute
<Snake__> No problem
<Snake__> Can anyone here help a noobie with docbook?
<mdke> Snake__, yes, go ahead
<mdke> we'll try
<Snake__> mdke: okay, im helping write the kubuntu desktop guide, and...ahh crap one min konq froze
<Snake__> Ugh.
<Snake__> mdke: sorry, my computers a bit on the slow side, i need to re-open the file
<mdke> ok, which file are you working on
<Snake__> mdke: i'm writing a new one, but I was just going to edit the "getting-started.xml" since I dont really kno docbook
<mdke> right, that's the best way
<bur[n] er> Snake__: don't you wanna edit common-tasks.xml ?
<Snake__> mdke: i'm not sure what to put in the title, or anything like that
<mdke> title of what?
<Snake__> mdke: the tags, it says <title id="soandso"> etc etc....i'm not sure what to put because I have to customize it to work in my section of the guide right?
<bur[n] er> Snake__: you workin on the music part?
<Snake__> <chapter id="getting-started-chap"> , what im writing up is going..i guess in the "common tasks" chaptoer
<mdke> you don't need an id for the title tag. As for the content, that's really up to you: the title of a chapter/section depends on what is in it
<Snake__> bur[n] er: yes
<bur[n] er> Snake__: so instead of getting-started.xml... open common-tasks.xml
<bur[n] er> did you do an svn checkout?
<Snake__> bur[n] er: yes
<jjesse> robotgeek_away: i'm patching and commitng your email
<bur[n] er> so go to kubuntu/desktopguide/C/common-tasks.xml and edit the music part :) and make a .diff file
* Snake__ waits for his slow-arse PC to open kate...
* mdke sense Snake__ is british
<mdke> senses*
<bur[n] er> Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 1.70GHz - 512 MB here :)
<Snake__> mdke: No sir, Ohio born and raised :)
<mdke> hmm "arse"?
<Snake__> P3 900 mhz, 512 mb
<Snake__> I didnt want to swear
<bur[n] er> lol
<mdke> i thought americans all say ass
<Snake__> We do :)
<bur[n] er> americans say ass on tv ;)
<mdke> anyhow
<Snake__> Yea
<bur[n] er> yeah, sorry off-topic ;)  
<bur[n] er> follow me on that common-tasks.xml thing Snake__ ?
<Snake__> So I dont have to start my own file?? I just edit this one bur[n] er ?
<bur[n] er> Snake__: right
<mdke> that's right
<bur[n] er> Snake__: then do "svn diff common-tasks.xml common-tasks.xml.diff" when you're done
<mdke> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Contribute has some good instructions for how to work Snake__ 
<bur[n] er> make sure to test it with "yelp common-tasks.xml" to make sure it opens first
<Snake__> Oh wow that just made my life so much more easier
<Snake__> I was under the impression that I had to start my own xml file :)
<mhz> .oO(isn't it arse for irish lads?)
<mdke> no, no
<bur[n] er> Snake__: this time read that Contribute link ;)
<Snake__> bur[n] er: I did, cant really say I understood it all tho :P
<bur[n] er> Snake__: right on... I think I got it down, so feel free to ask... no one committed my patch though
<mdke> mail the list if it isn't clear, we'll change it
<mdke> but it should be fairly clear
<mdke> bur[n] er, which patch was that?
<jjesse> boy it sure is nice seeing more people contribute
<jjesse> ;0
<mdke> jjesse, you betcha
<bur[n] er> mdke: My First Patch was the email subject... but I didn't send it from my subscribed account... so it may have been disregarded
<bur[n] er> mdke: should I resend it?
<Snake__> jjesse: Hehe i've been on kubuntu a month, I love it with my heart and soul, im gonna give it all I can :). I would help with bug fix, but im not much of a programmer
<mdke> bur[n] er, you would have got an email saying "pending moderation"
<mdke> bur[n] er, did it appear on the list?
<mdke> bur[n] er, http://news.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ubuntu.doc
<bur[n] er> mdke: it didn't come to the list, but I did get the pending email
* bur[n] er is subscribed to the list
<mdke> bur[n] er, resend, or wait for it to get moderated, I guess
<mdke> if you resend, cancel the previous one
<bur[n] er> I can cancel?
<mdke> yeah, read the "pending" email :)
<Snake__> How long does it take for moderation and for patchs to be added?
<bur[n] er> mdke: i deleted it ;)
<Snake__> on a norm
<mdke> Snake__, if you subscribe, no moderation is needed for mails to get to the list. As for applying patches, it depends on what document you're working on, but it should only be a day or two
* bur[n] er assumes it's pretty rapid if the svn changes are any indication
<mdke> for kubuntu, jjesse will commit things
<bur[n] er> is it cool if I resend using my subscribed account without cancelling the previous one?
<mdke> Snake__, it is a good idea to subscribe to the commit mailing list too 
<mdke> bur[n] er, yeah
<Snake__> mdke: I think im part of that
<Snake__> bur[n] er: what did we sign up for yesterday?
<mdke> the normal mailing list probably
<bur[n] er> Snake__: the mailing list... I just have multiple emails and sent it from a different one
<mdke> there is a commit mailing list, which notifies you of each upload to the repository
<mdke> it's quite useful
<Snake__> alright all check into that, but write now I want to write this xml file
<mdke> okay :)
<bur[n] er> Snake__: slacker ;)
<Snake__> bur[n] er: slacker my butt!
<Snake__> bur[n] er: i'm writing a report for english atm too :P
<Snake__> Then I have a essay I got to write for science :(
<mdke> bah
<mdke> prioritise
<mdke> :)
<mdke> i'm off
<mdke> good luck, and if you run into trouble, check that link
<Snake__> Okie dokie
<Snake__> thanks mdke 
* bur[n] er is off too... good luck Snake__ 
<Snake__> Oh no
<Snake__> lol cya bur[n] er 
<Snake__> robotgeek: how do I make a list in docbook
<LaserJock> Snake__: what kind of list?
<Snake__> LaserJock: just a numbered lsit
<LaserJock> Snake__: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocBookReference has some info
<LaserJock> Snake__: I think you want <orderedlist>
<LaserJock> so http://opensource.bureau-cornavin.com/crash-course/orderedlist.html has what you want ;-)
<Snake__> LaserJock: thankyouthankyouthankyouthankyouthank 1000x over
<Snake__> ive been looking for something like that refrence forever
<Snake__> LaserJock: and yep thatll due
<robotgeek> phew, phone call
<Snake__> hehe
<LaserJock> Snake__: np, that's what we are here for :-)
* robotgeek hopes the patches will keep rolling in , and we finish in 4 days!
<Snake__> robotgeek: 4 days!?
<robotgeek> Snake__: that's why i was hoping, lol
<Snake__> lol
<robotgeek> when you dream, dream big
<Snake__> robotgeek: ill be done with mine thursday/friday, hopefully
<robotgeek> Snake__: cool
<Snake__> My whole 2 parts :P, then I can help somewhere else if needed
<robotgeek> i will attack chapter 3 today
<jjesse> robotgeek: where does global.ent.patch and mk.patch get applied to?
<robotgeek> jjesse: global thing gets applied to libs/global.ent , it only adds an url for kubuntu-support page
<robotgeek> mk.patch to kubuntu/desktopguide/C/mk 
<jjesse> ok everything should be applied
<robotgeek> jjesse: thanks, i just svn updated :)
<mdke> robotgeek, don't worry too much about the mk file, it's not used by kubuntu
<robotgeek> mdke: hmm, okay. i just build my previews using that file
<mdke> robotgeek, ok, we'll need to give it a bit of thought
<mdke> I like decentralised makefiles, it's easier for translations
<robotgeek> mdke: yeah, i hadn't thought of that. 
<robotgeek> mdke: i am not comfortable with make files yet, will you be able to help me with that?
<jjesse> is there no make file for the desktopguide?
<mdke> robotgeek, yes I will indeed
<robotgeek> nope, just some script which runsxsltproc
<mdke> jjesse, in the Ubuntu version, I call a separate make script
<mdke> i think we'll try and do the same for the kubuntu one
<jjesse> i like it when we can make things similar and doing so makes things easier
* mdke nos
<mdke> *nods*
<robotgeek> jjesse: i copied the mk file from the ubuntu desktop guide, it is still there
<robotgeek> i just modified it to reflect kde stuff
<mdke> robotgeek, kde uses some different build tools, we'll sort it out, dont worry
<robotgeek> mdke: hmm, okay. i assumed the doc uses the same things. 
<jjesse> for all kubuntu docs we use the kde build tools
<mdke> fraid not, at the moment.
<jjesse> feel free to correct me if wrong
<robotgeek> hmm, will i need to change the xml stuff?
<mdke> nope
<mdke> just look after the xml, we'll sort out the build stuff
<jjesse> that's all i do :)  i'd probablly break stuff 
<robotgeek> sounds good to me
<robotgeek> jjesse: don't apply bur[n] er's patch just yet
<Snake__> Ill brb, time to eat
<Snake__> Back
#ubuntu-doc 2007-02-05
<LaserJock> I wonder how much they are paying for them this year
<LaserJock> nixternal: not looking good
<Admiral_Chicago> LaserJock: not at all :(
* crimsun cackles
<tonyyarusso> uh oh
<tonyyarusso> why?
<crimsun> silly Super Bowl tradition, but that's off-topic :)
<tonyyarusso> ..'k.
<nixternal> bah
<LaserJock> nixternal: sorry dude
<nixternal> that was sad, sad, sad, sad
<nixternal> you know what, if it wasn't for Kubuntu, I would jump off the roof of the house
<nixternal> even if it is only 10 feet
<jjesse> just cause da bears lost?  bummer rich :)
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> lost isn't even the right words for what they did
<jjesse> well if they could've made a complete pass w/o throwing an interception :)
<LaserJock> heh, the 1st quarter seemed good for them
<LaserJock> I was watching via yahoo sports
<jjesse> yeah it was a good game at the beginning
<crimsun> I was fixing alsa-lib.
<LaserJock> and I read the kickoff return and was like "that's gotta be embarrasing for the colts"
<LaserJock> crimsun: I was fixing a mirror on my minivan
<crimsun> I should have scolded Rich in the changelog.
<jjesse> i was at a party for the 1st half
<LaserJock> crimsun: the "glad I'm not watching the Stupid Bowl" release?
<nixternal> hardy har har
* nixternal inserts root kit into Ubuntu docs
<crimsun> sorry, but I've already rootkit'd your audio drivers (not to mention I don't have *ubuntu docs installed)
<jjesse> man i love the movie "the natural"
<jjesse> one of the greatest of all times sportwise
<nixternal> how do I create the relation series ID for OMF files?
<Madpilot> sacrifice a small chicken under a full moon?
<nixternal> heh, nah, I just read the GNOME admin guide, I got it now
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3760 edubuntu/ (3 files in 3 dirs): OMF files for Edubuntu docs
<Madpilot> CIA-4, are you a bot?
<LaserJock> Madpilot: kinda, a commit bot
<Ubugtu> New bug: #83375 in ubuntu-doc "Online (HTML) document should not use ASCII art arrows" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/83375
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3761 edubuntu/ (2 files in 2 dirs): typos
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3762 edubuntu/debian/ (8 files): Edubuntu debian directory for new package - temp at this - will require further tweaks in the future possibly
<mpt> Is there any magic incantation to be able to view the help pages in Yelp with links that work?
<mpt> I get warnings like "Could not resolve ghelp URI: ghelp:windows"
<mpt> And why is, for example, windows.xml in its own directory, but usersandgroups.xml inside newtoubuntu/?
<mpt> Eh, who renamed my list of Ubuntu equivalents a "Glossary of Windows Terms"
<mpt> It Is Not A Glossary of Windows Terms :-(
<mdke> mpt: taking your questions in turn :)
<mdke> mpt: 1. build ubuntu-docs and install it
<mdke> mpt: 2. usersandgroups.xml isn't used iirc, it's now in keeping-safe.xml
<mdke> mpt: 3. me, but I've been meaning to find a better name for it for some time now
<mpt> mdke, yeah, I've been trying to think of a good name for it too :-)
<mpt> but it's much more a list of equivalents than it is a list of definitions
<mpt> The Mac equivalent is called "Where is the ...?"
<mdke> mpt: right
<mpt> mdke, what do you mean by "build ubuntu-docs"? I don't see an "ubuntu-docs" target in either of the Makefiles, nor mentioned in their respective READMEs
* mpt is teh n00b
<mdke> mpt: I mean build the package, or alternatively upgrade to feisty and wait for the latest version.
<mpt> I know ubuntu-docs is a package, I still don't know how to build it, though :-)
<mdke> mpt: I'll build one and put it online?
<mpt> no, no worries
<mpt> Sorry, I thought it was just typing something
<mdke> ok. ghelp: basically calls the documents installed at /usr/share/gnome/help
<mpt> Anyway, I'm part-way through compacting the "About Ubuntu" section
<mpt> since it's full of stuff that isn't particularly helpful
<mdke> well, it's not so much help as general interest, I guess
<mpt> Besides which, "Thank you for your interest in" has always grated on me :-)
<mpt> anyway, bedtime
<mpt> (and GNU was founded in 1983, not 1984)
<Ubugtu> New bug: #81788 in xubuntu-docs (main) "Xubuntu doc bug-filing link points to Ubuntu doc bug-filing link" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/81788
<somerville32> thats not a new bug :/
<Commander-Crowe> erm?
<mdke> erm indeed
<nixternal> very much erm
<Commander-Crowe> oh?
<nixternal> why yes
<nixternal> heh
<Commander-Crowe> I get emails form some with the same name
<Commander-Crowe> mkde@ubuntu.com
<Commander-Crowe> or sometihng like tat
<mdke> probably me
<nixternal> ya, watch out for him, he tends to eat PCs
<Commander-Crowe> good thing this is a Mac
<nixternal> oh, well, I won't tell you what he does with those then
<nixternal> it is a neat trick nonetheless
<Commander-Crowe> I'
<Commander-Crowe> I'd like to see what he does with Sparcs :P
<nixternal> I am sure that's ruffage, but there will be sparcks involved
<LaserJock> mdke: are you about?
<somerville32> s/are you about?/ping
<LaserJock> heh, no
<LaserJock> that would be a contentless ping
<LaserJock> but I put a smiggen of content in there
<somerville32> hehe
<LaserJock> mdke: just throwing out idea, would it be a huge deal to split off an HTML branch or something and have people who look after the HTML versions?
<LaserJock> mdke: I think the answer is yes but seems like we can't have our cake and eat it too ;-)
<mdke> LaserJock: I'm not sure if you're suggesting maintaining different content as well as fixing links? In any case, I think now we've got some better structure in our docs, it's time to try and integrate things with the wiki if possible
<LaserJock> mhm
<LaserJock> I'm a little wary of putting it in the wiki put it seems like a decent solution
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke * r3763 /trunk/ (ubuntu/internet/C/internet.xml xubuntu/libs/xubuntu.ent): Matthew's patch for renaming ethereal
#ubuntu-doc 2007-02-06
<Commander-Crowe> who is Metthew West?
<Commander-Crowe> haha
<Commander-Crowe> East
<Commander-Crowe> haha
<Commander-Crowe> wrong direction
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> he is basically the leader of the documentation team
<LaserJock> mdke is his nick
<LaserJock> although I'm pretty sure he is asleep now ( he's in the UK)
<Commander-Crowe> aah
<j1mc> do you all use any kind of special software to work with the docbook files for the documentation?
* Admiral_Chicago waves to a fellow Chicago locoer.
<Admiral_Chicago> heya j1mc
<j1mc> heya Admiral_Chicago
<j1mc> :)
<Admiral_Chicago> working on xubuntu doc
<Admiral_Chicago> hang out, I'll be back late
<j1mc> ok . . .
<j1mc> which one are you working on?
<Admiral_Chicago> i'm trying to do wikis but not this week, swapped with work
<j1mc> hmmm  ok
<nixternal> j1mc: any text editor will suffice
<nixternal> gEdit, Kate, Bluefish, Vim, Emacs, whatever you want to use
<nixternal> if I am going big edits I tend to use Kate, and if I am just going through and fixing stuff and test building I am stuck in vim
<j1mc> thanks, nixternal
<Commander-Crowe> do you guys think that the use of the word "newbie" or "noob" is inappropriate for the wiki's/docs?
<Admiral_Chicago> Commander-Crowe: yes
<Commander-Crowe> ok
<Commander-Crowe> well I foudn it twice and I changed it
<Admiral_Chicago> good, I saw that before but was rushing and didn't get to do it
<Admiral_Chicago> Commander-Crowe: we aren't the RTFM community
<Commander-Crowe> yeah
<Commander-Crowe> I thought so
<Admiral_Chicago> good work.
<Commander-Crowe> well
<Commander-Crowe> I think  I need someone to give me assienments
<Admiral_Chicago> you could try to tackle category cleanup
<Commander-Crowe> um...ok
<Commander-Crowe> where is it?
<nixternal> wo0t
<nixternal> oops, wrong channel
<Ubugtu> New bug: #83525 in xubuntu-docs (main) "Listed location of "Terminal" is incorrect" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/83525
<j1mc> woah, ubugtu posted that from launchpad?  sweet.
<nixternal> j1mc: have you checked out the documentation repository at all? We use Subversion if you didn't know already. Are you familiar with that?
<nixternal> ya j1mc, ubugtu posts all *doc bugs here
<nixternal> and posts all bugs in #ubuntu-bugs
<Commander-Crowe> subversion, isn't that for XGL/AIGLX themes?
<nixternal> Subversion is a version control system
<Commander-Crowe> ok
<Commander-Crowe> I'll change the bug
<nixternal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Repository  <- j1mc
<j1mc> thanks, nixternal
<nixternal> j1mc: maybe our next meeting, or whatever, we can get together and do some doc hacking. I need some motivation every now and then :)
<j1mc> i was posting the "bugs in xubuntu-docs" page.  is that cool?
<j1mc> doing some docbook hacking sounds good, though.
<j1mc> right now i'm just proof reading the docs, though.  just to get started.  nothing fancy.
<nixternal> j1mc: as long as it refers to Xubuntu docs
<j1mc> nixternal, yep.  that's what i'm working with.  :)
<j1mc> btw, thanks for the link to the repository.
<nixternal> j1mc: have you talked at all with somerville32? he has been doing some docbook hacking for xubuntu
<j1mc> he knows that i'm interested in helping out.  we haven't really talked, though.
* nixternal is hungry
<nixternal> bbiaf
<Admiral_Chicago> yup, cody is the man to talk to
<j1mc> there's an irc meeting on a saturday in a week or so.  and i'm going to try and make that.
<j1mc> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-docs/+bugs   that's where i'm posting the xubuntu-doc bugs to.
<Admiral_Chicago> yea that seems to be the correct place
<j1mc> neato
<Commander-Crowe> I can't physically edit the desktop guide
<poningru> anyone around?
<poningru> http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/installing-from-cd.html
<poningru> I am looking at the front splash screen of the server install on the latest cd-image
<poningru> and I dont see a lamp option
<poningru> I am pretty sure they moved that to within the install
<tonyyarusso> poningru: It's not on the front spash edgy+, no
<poningru> hmm not sure about that
<tonyyarusso> It's a checkbox after installing -minimal
<poningru> right
<tonyyarusso> (I did an Edgy server install, btw)
<poningru> ah yeah never did one of those
* poningru writes patch
<tonyyarusso> The two options are LAMP and bind servers :)
* tonyyarusso hopes they add others, like ftp and mail, to that list
<poningru> yeah thats what I got too in feisty
<poningru> I know right
<poningru> that would be so cool
* poningru wished they didnt do dhcp by default
<Commander-Crowe> docta docta
<poningru> anyone around to answer to couple of questions about the server guide?
<poningru> https://help.ubuntu.com/6.10/ubuntu/serverguide/
<tonyyarusso> poningru: Maybe?  depends on the question
<tonyyarusso> and reasonably quick ;)
<poningru> hehe
<poningru> sorry
<poningru> basically re: the style
<poningru> are we going very indepth?
<poningru> as in making it a 'howto'
<poningru> or are we just skimming the surface and giving an overview
<tonyyarusso> Well, I haven't had a chance to go thoroughly through the current version online, but I can say this:
<poningru> for example
<poningru> mhmm
<poningru> https://help.ubuntu.com/6.10/ubuntu/serverguide/C/network-file-system.html which is just an overview/brief howto as opposed to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SettingUpNFSHowTo
<tonyyarusso> I bought the version as of Dapper from Lulu.  And, I found it a bit sparse.  It's great to have a quick overview kind of thing, but I was hoping with the mindset that people who will bother to buy a "server guide" probably need and want a fair bit of information.  I think it would be way cool (and a lot of work) if there were like two sections, where the current guide is in the front, and each piece says something like (see page 127 of 
<poningru> yeah and I dont think it would be that much of a work either
<poningru> since most of the info is already in the wuc/huc(community)
<LaserJock> you are welcome to write it
<tonyyarusso> LaserJock: I know :)
<tonyyarusso> I'd _love_ to be doing more on this sort of stuff, but my formal education is getting in the way, if you know what I mean.
<tonyyarusso> poningru: that's a good point though
<tonyyarusso> I (personally) like the option of being able to get computer things in print as well, or at the very least available offline.
<poningru> yeah same here
<LaserJock> me too
<tonyyarusso> I have actually in the past downloaded a mirror of the entire wiki for that purpose, but having a well-organized book is even better.
<tonyyarusso> (I have dialup at home, so always being connected is not possible)
<poningru> 0.0
<poningru> entire wiki over dialup??
<poningru> crazy
<tonyyarusso> It might be a good idea to print them separately actually, so you could spend the $6 on the current guide, or $25 for a big whomping one.
<tonyyarusso> poningru: ;)
<tonyyarusso> It's actually not that bad.
<tonyyarusso> I think it came to 100 MB (far better than the 700 MB ISO I had to get first).
<tonyyarusso> And since it's just text, you can bzip2 it down to 11 MB and store it on a thumb drive easily.
<tonyyarusso> or at least you could at the time - it's larger now
<poningru> hehe
<poningru> yeah I'll say
<tonyyarusso> poningru: So, in summary, I think we should _both_ skim the surface with an overview and have some sort of "supplement" that goes in-depth, that you can get additionally at your option.
<poningru> but all the quality is in huc(community) anyway
<poningru> tonyyarusso++
<poningru> serverguide_indepth ?
<tonyyarusso> something like that
<tonyyarusso> well referenced from the short version of course
<LaserJock> why don't you guys just start by sending patches into the mailing list?
<tonyyarusso> LaserJock: I need to learn how first for one thing...
<tonyyarusso> :P
<LaserJock> well, there you go, a place to start :-)
<tonyyarusso> yup
<tonyyarusso> wow...I'm so glad I have an eye doctor appt soon.  bleh
<alefteris> Hi everyone! Is there a new version of the firefox welcome page for feisty? I would like to translate it, so where can i get the latest version? thanks
<mdke> we haven't changed anything from the last version yet
<willvdl> what's a good docbook editer that can do automatic indenting?
<mdke> willvdl: bluefish?
<LaserJock> doesn't vim/emacs?
<willvdl> ah yes, you mentioned that before
<willvdl> what is the preferred indent? 4 space tab or spaces?
<mdke> we don't have one, afaik
<willvdl> what's your preference? :)
<mdke> I don't have one, afaik
<LaserJock> that's right, appease the doc god ;-)
<willvdl> :P
<nixternal> I stopped using tabs, instead I use seperation between tags
<willvdl> nixternal, not with you. what seperation do you use?
<stelis> willvdl: We spoke about the idea of an Edubuntu Install Guide last week, and I've since knocked together a draft/proof-of-concept: http://www.elsn.org/downloads/edubuntu/drafts/edubuntu-quickstart.html
* willvdl looks
<nixternal> willvdl: https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk/kubuntu/internet/C/internet.xml
<nixternal> see that, that is how I seperate
<willvdl> stelis. ambitious :)
<nixternal> it makes the text longer, but that doesn't matter, easy to read, as well as I use a ton of comments <!-- blah --> so in case I ever leave someone should be able to pick right up
<stelis> It's actually stitched together from draft Handbook sections...
<willvdl> nixternal gotcha. quite readable
<willvdl> stelis, which drafts are you using?
<stelis> Mine :)
<willvdl> ok, we need to talk then :)
<stelis> I wrote a Install section, but haven't caught up with
<stelis> oops
<stelis> Anyone who seemed upto date on Edubuntu docs
<willvdl> good news
<willvdl> have you got svn access on the doc-team repo?
<stelis> http://www.elsn.org/downloads/edubuntu/drafts/
<stelis> That directory holds all my DocBook drafts
<stelis> No
<willvdl> OK, lets think of a way to merge efforts
<nixternal> ahh, I see stelis grabbed the files from teh old layout. p1-*, p2-* and so on
<stelis> I wandered in to IRC just before Xmas, was away for a while, and haven't really gotten into the swing of things
<willvdl> ultimately, we want to be in line with doc-team structures
<stelis> Yes. I asked after Xmas, and nobody could tell me what the latest was
<stelis> OK
<willvdl> you've got content, that makes me happy :)
<stelis> I've noticed that SVN has moved around
<nixternal> hrmm, we have to look at the licensing there, is Edubuntu using GFDL? Ubuntu docs and such switched to CC-by-SA, but I will leave that for another conversation
<nixternal> stelis: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Repository
<willvdl> nixternal edubuntu-docs should use what ever ubuntu docs uses
<stelis> nixternal: The layout is borrowed from LDP, and I'll change the license
<nixternal> that is where you want to work from stelis
<nixternal> willvdl: if Edubuntu docs decides to use CC-by-SA then stelis will need to relicense his docs in order to be merged with the current
<nixternal> stelis: roger
<nixternal> I hate to switch from GFDL, but that isn't my choice :(
<stelis> The GFDL has serious issues
<stelis> Sadly
<nixternal> and so do all of the CC licenses
<stelis> Yup
<nixternal> CC licenses are useless because they reinvented the wheel imho
<willvdl> OK. I have no idea what licence edubuntu dcs is on
<willvdl> but it makes sense to stay in line with doc-team
<stelis> Fedora went with the OPL, because counsel said that they felt that that could enforce it
<nixternal> willvdl: GFDL currently
<stelis> And that it went the criteria for a free license
<stelis> went > met
<willvdl> either way, makes no sense for edubuntu-docs to have a different licence
<nixternal> granted I get confused with some of the legal mumbo jumbo
<willvdl> how do I change it?
<stelis> I'm fairly easy with WRT docs licenses
<nixternal> willvdl: I will go through then and change the licensing to match Ubuntu docs then
<willvdl> thanks
<nixternal> stelis: did you write the quickstart from scratch pretty much?
<stelis> It's all my content
<willvdl> stelis, it should be relatively simple to get you svn access to docteam repos, then at least we're all working in the same place
<nixternal> it looks good, the code is clean as well
<stelis> Assembled from the draft sections that I hadn't managed to get reviewed
<stelis> Sorry if that was unclear
<stelis> willvdl: That would be helpful
<nixternal> well, you are definitely an asset in my eyes right now. I/We could definitely use a lot more help with the Handbook, and the talent is definitely there
<stelis> FWIW, the idea of the Quick Start is the same as the Getting Started page on the Web site
<stelis> Only cleaned up/ updated/expanded
<nixternal> stelis: the easiest way to get access is to first commit patches that show you know your code, you know how to patch and work with svn, and then when mdke feels good about it, he will put in for you
<willvdl> and reminds me of jsgotangco's idea for a quickstart guide
<stelis> I wanted something that I could give to people who know nothing about Edubuntu
<stelis> That would get over the installation hurdle
<stelis> There are FIXMEs where screenshots should go in the DocBook
<willvdl> nixternal, ubuntu could benefit from an installation guide too I reckon
<stelis> I've got raw PNGs, but don't know how to format them (correct resolution etc.)
<willvdl> stelis, there are folks who will
<stelis> Well I can probably ImageMagick them to whatever the right format is - I'm just missing the info
<willvdl> just drop a mail on the doc-team list and I'm sure you'll get the right response
<stelis> OK, will do
<willvdl> stelis, if you could help out with the handbook we'd be greatly appreciative
<stelis> I'm happy to.
<willvdl> excellent, I'm busy organising what's currently been done on it
<willvdl> there is an old wiki section at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EdubuntuDocumentation/EdubuntuCookbook
<willvdl> which is out of date but still got some useful info
<willvdl> and then there is the handbook in the repo
<willvdl> I'll also move the planning/project management pages over to the doc-team wiki pages
<willvdl> (I _Still_ haven't had time to do that)
<stelis> These are the source for all the bits and pieces that I've done: http://www.elsn.org/downloads/edubuntu/handbook/
<stelis> source > sources
<willvdl> based on edgy?
<stelis> They built when integrated with the old handbook SVN
<stelis> Yes.
<willvdl> cool. MY only setback is getting feisty changes in in time
<stelis> I've yet seen any differences (that would impact this stuff anyhow)
<stelis> haven't yet
<willvdl> well LDAP authentication etc. will impact things
<stelis> I looked through the packages and I don't think I saw anything for that
<stelis> I know that ogra was keen to add somthing
<willvdl> speak to oli on the status
<Burgwork> stelis: that is currently up the air, due to tools shaking out
<stelis> OK.
<willvdl> Burgwork, there is a concerted push to make sure it's there
<Burgwork> well, ajmitch has to deliver his part
<willvdl> stelis, pop by the edubuntu meeting tomorrow and we'll see how we can progress
<stelis> willvdl: 20:00 UTC?
<willvdl> I think tomorrow is 12:00 UTC
<stelis> :(
<willvdl> what's your timezone?
<stelis> GMT
<willvdl> ah. mid-day
<stelis> No IRC access at work (firewalls)
<willvdl> bummer
<stelis> I can be around on IRC tomorrow evening
<willvdl> I gotto crash. exhausted. see y'all later
<stelis> Cheers
#ubuntu-doc 2007-02-07
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3764 kubuntu/ (4 files in 3 dirs): renaming the network portion to connecting, as that is all that document will cover (eth, wifi, and dial-up)
<jjesse> does cia-4 now report on commits?
<nixternal> yes
<nixternal> I renamed that because I wasn't going to go into networking as much as I was gaining connection
<nixternal> and connections don't belong in the internet section, they are 2 different things
<jjesse> ah
<mpt> I think they're the same overall category, though
<mpt> "Internet and networking"
<nixternal> well networking is a very broad term, especially when all I am interested in is gaining a connection
<mpt> yep
<mpt> there are a bunch of things that could/should be in there and aren't :-)
<nixternal> however, maybe I should go with networking and also get into Samba a little bit so people can access their Windows(tm) boxes
<mpt> yes please! :-)
<nixternal> hehe
<mpt> I'd love to know how to do that
<nixternal> mpt: I almost forgot about that
<nixternal> I am glad you brought that up to spark my mind
<nixternal> to much snow blowing today has erased my memory
<mpt> Snow? I'm trying to keep cool :-/
<nixternal> hrmm. I am going to switch back I think and then just add more to the networking portion
<nixternal> for Internet, I have the 3 browsers, Email, P2P, Torrent, and IM stuff
<nixternal> I have the Kontact/KMail portion of Email covered, I am going to call out for someone to write up something on Evolution and Thunderbird as well
<nixternal> I could be an arse and write up Mutt :)
<mpt> Cool, but remember not to duplicate stuff that's already in the help for those individual programs
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3765 kubuntu/connecting/C/connecting.xml: Quick commit, after talking with mpt, I am switching back to networking in order to incorporate stuff like Samba, and possibly NFS
<nixternal> mpt: I will link with help:/samba and what not
<nixternal> quick intro to let the user know what it is, and then a link to the Samba help and so on
<mpt> hmm
<mpt> Is there yelp-readable help about Samba?
<mpt> oh, silly question
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3766 kubuntu/ (connecting/ network/ network/C/ network/C/): moving back
<mpt> if help:/samba exists, there must be
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3767 kubuntu/network/C/ (connecting.xml network.xml): still going back
<nixternal> I think there is, I am going to look right now
<mpt> Ah, there it is, "To Access a remote server" in the DUG
<mpt> Now that's weird capitalization
<mpt> and weird wording, too (what if it's a Windows computer that isn't a server and isn't remote?)
<nixternal> ya it is
<nixternal> well, if it wasn't remote then you wouldn't be using Samba
<mpt> well, hang on
<nixternal> hehe
<mpt> Let's say that my parents are using a crappy old machine running Windows 98
<mpt> and I want to transfer all their files to a new machine running Ubuntu
<mpt> and I connect the computers via an Ethernet cable (let's pretend the crappy old machine has an Ethernet port)
<mpt> What I want to know is, what do I do next? :-)
<mpt> (and there should be a link to this section in the "If you've been using Windows" section...)
<nixternal> well are you connecting through a switch, or are you usng a crossover cable and connecting them directly?
<mpt> A what?
<mpt> I don't know what either of those things are (honestly)
<nixternal> well, you can use a crossover cable and connect pc to pc w/o a hub/switch/router, directly from one NIC to the other NIC
<nixternal> there used to be an application similar to...argh I forgot the name
<nixternal> it would do everything for you, it would see the connection and setup your Linux side to work
<mpt> cf. http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=304721
<mpt> though that page is missing what to do if the Windows computer doesn't have file sharing turned on yet
<nixternal> XP has file sharing enabled automagically doesn't it? There is like a shared files/folder directory iirc.
<nixternal> been a long time
<jjesse> yeah some basic autosharing through simple file sharing
<nixternal> which is as simple as dragging and dropping
<jjesse> in most basic forms yes
<nixternal> I think the majority of the setup will be on the Kubuntu side
<jjesse> but there is a "shared" folder that you can setup that makes it easiest
<nixternal> good jjesse, I will need your help there. I am not forking out $100 for you know what :)
<nixternal> I have Windows 2000 disc, that's about it
<jjesse> ah
<jjesse> vitsa rocks :)
<nixternal> I have been Windows independent now for about 5 years
* jjesse works w/ windows every day
<nixternal> omg jjesse you just hurt my heart with that one ;p
<nixternal> actually longer. I stopped my professional gaming career in 2001 :)
<nixternal> During my tenure as a gamer I made $1500
<nixternal> big money!
<jjesse> nice :)
<nixternal> the only time I had to use Windows was for CAD, but I then pawned that task off to others
<nixternal> but when designing networks and infrastructures, I kind of like doing that myself, since I can picture it, and drawing it out for someone else to sling to CAD is a waste
* jjesse afk
<nixternal> hrmm, do we list trademarks in a seperate file?
<nixternal> i.e., Windows and Mac?
<nixternal> they both want you to use Windows(TM) and Mac(R), however in Macs case, you only use the (R) for documentation within the United States, otherwise you do:
<nixternal> Mac and Mac OS are trademarks of Apple Inc., registered in the U.S. and other countries.
<nixternal> according to apple.com and microsoft.com we need to add their trademarks to our credits section
<nixternal> otherwise we are in violation of their clauses
<jjesse> back sorry bout that 2 hour confrence call
<nixternal> lovely
<nixternal> this late at night?
<nixternal> and we don't call those conference calls here ;p
<LaserJock> any emacs experts around?
<nixternal> not I
<nixternal> what are you messing around with now?
<LaserJock> oh, kinda everything
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> erc?
<nixternal> LaserJock: are you using emacs-nox or are you using the X version?
<nixternal> I swore emacs used to run in my terminal, but everytime I goto run it now, it opens the X version
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3768 kubuntu/network/C/network.xml: extra content - more to go
<LaserJock> emacs -nw opens it without the window
<nixternal> ahhh
<poningru> holy cow
<poningru> anyone see the inclusion request for the migration thingie?
<LaserJock> where?
<poningru> on -devel-discuss
<poningru> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportMigrationAssistant
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3769 kubuntu/network/C/network.xml: more content
<mdke> morning all
<LaserJock> hi mdke
<Madpilot> hi mdke
<mdke> hiya Madpilot, how are you?
<Madpilot> good, busy with work and such, though
* mdke nods
<mdke> Seveas: have they skipped a CC meeting this week?
<willvdl> do we send docbook patches to ubuntu-doc list? or other
<LaserJock> mdke: what is seb128 uploading?
<LaserJock> latest yelp frontpage?
<mdke> LaserJock: yes
<Ubugtu> New bug: #83871 in ubuntu-website "Herd-3 download page doesn't display in Safari" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/83871
<mdke> ??
<Gwaihir> mdke: think it has been opend by BugMan
<Gwaihir> oh.. no... BugMad had the same problem
<mdke> it was opened on distro-release-notes, I've reassigned it
<Gwaihir> better!
<nixternal> oi
<LaserJock> hi nixternal
<nixternal> I am trying to figure out if I am at daycare or college
<Ubugtu> New bug: #75080 in ubuntu-docs (main) "nfs server documentation needs addition" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/75080
<LaserJock> nixternal: haha
<nixternal> the nfs server docs need more than an addition I am affraid
<LaserJock> nixternal: I just honestly don't know the detail of how the yelp page is set
<nixternal> ditto
<nixternal> but I have it setup at home and I will look at it
<mdke> which?
<nixternal> well look who it is
<LaserJock> mdke: we're still trying to figure out what to do with edubuntu-docs
<LaserJock> nixternal made a package that adds on the edubuntu stuff
<LaserJock> but it's kinda ugly because stuff like About Ubuntu is still there
<LaserJock> and our "guides" are intermixed with TBH material
<nixternal> LaserJock: incorporate the Ubuntu-docs (topic based) into the edubuntu-doc package. Then we figure out the Yelp portion of it
<nixternal> can we create a custom Yelp page just for the Edubuntu package?
<mdke> well, you need to wait until *we* figure out how the yelp page works
<mdke> then I can help
<LaserJock> :-)
<mdke> don't worry, I have in mind what you mentioned about edubuntu
<nixternal> cool mdke, think you can have it all finished within the hour? :)
<LaserJock> well, we need to get an edubuntu-docs package together and promoted in Main like today
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke * r3770 /trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): adding a "Files, Folders and Documents" topic
<LaserJock> if we can just have *something* we can fix "bugs" later
<mdke> nixternal: no of course not
<nixternal> darn, it was worth a try though ;p
<nixternal> LaserJock: grab the package I made, re-version it, and use that temporarily?
<mdke> so what further is missing?
<LaserJock> nixternal: that at least puts all the content in
<nixternal> it will add to the mess called yelp, but there will be something there at least
<nixternal> LaserJock: all of the docs packaged in edubuntu-docs though show up just fine on the front page of yelp
<mdke> don't diss yelp
<nixternal> mdke: don't worry, KHelpCenter is just as bad
<mdke> as bad?
<nixternal> hehe
<mdke> anyway
<mdke> but a yelp upload is going in soon which will customise the front page. It may not have the edubuntu-docs on it.
<LaserJock> mdke: I probably asked before (my brain is soup right now) but if we add in the Ubuntu content to our edubuntu-docs package can we tweak the yelp frontpage
<mdke> we can tweak it later, I hope
<nixternal> At least Yelp works, KHelpCenter in Kubuntu doesn't work correctly
<LaserJock> i.e. can we just not build About Ubuntu and it won't show up?
<nixternal> ahh, I see what you are saying now
<mdke> LaserJock: if you are depending on ubuntu-docs, which I presume you are, we'll have to think of a clever way to hide about ubuntu
<nixternal> shoot, I left my Philosophy and Logic homework at home
<LaserJock> mdke: I was just wondering if we could "copy" the Ubuntu content we want into edubuntu-docs and not dep on ubuntu-docs
<nixternal> mdke: not depending, but copying in the topic-based section
<mdke> ewww
<LaserJock> I know, I know
<mdke> so conflicting?
<LaserJock> ummm, yeah :-)
<LaserJock> right now the dep-on-ubuntu works, just kinda ugly
<LaserJock> do you think we can figure out how to take out About Ubuntu for edubuntu before Feisty is released?
<nixternal> LaserJock: after looking at the yelp code, changing it seems rather simple, however! it would require a different yelp package between Ubuntu and Edubuntu
<mdke> I hope so
<nixternal> I see the TOC patch for Yelp
<mdke> nixternal: don't start looking at the yelp code for crying out loud
<mdke> no, you don't
<nixternal> very simple C code
<nixternal> umm yes I do
<mdke> that's the one for last release
<LaserJock> but we can't fork yelp just for Edubuntu, that's too ugly
<nixternal> well, I am saying hacking Yelp looks easy
<mdke> listen, you can either trust me when I say that I'm thinking about edubuntu and will take care of it, or you can disbelieve me and go and plough around in the old code
<LaserJock> no, no, we trust you
<LaserJock> I'm just trying to confirm that you are thinking about it for Feisty
<nixternal> the TOC patch applies to 4 files, 2 xml, 2 xsl, and 1 c file
<mdke> LaserJock: yes, I said that
* mdke gives up with nixternal 
<LaserJock> hehe
<LaserJock> ok, it's settled then
<nixternal> LaserJock: so for the time being, just get the edubuntu-docs package uploaded and we can wait
<LaserJock> nixternal: fix the versioning and we'll upload
<nixternal> thanks
<nixternal> what version should it be
<mdke> LaserJock: I have already raised the edubuntu question with the yelp upstream developer who is doing the work, and we'll be on it. Hiding about-ubuntu will be tricky, but I'll raise that too
<nixternal> 0.14-1ubuntu34343234
<nixternal> I can't remember
<LaserJock> nixternal: that's what LP is for
<LaserJock> 0.5-1 looks good
<nixternal> roger
<LaserJock> and grab the old changelog entries and say a bit more in your entry
<mdke> good night
<LaserJock> cya mdke, thanks for the help and sorry for the confusion ;-)
<LaserJock> nixternal: do you think you could also handle filing a MIR?
<LaserJock> or should I?
<nixternal> alrighty, updating my pbuilder
<nixternal> I can do it, but I won't be able to do it either late tonight or tomorrow evening
<nixternal> it should be a fairly straight forward MIR
<LaserJock> yep
<nixternal> I love the super fast WiFi at school
<nixternal> will only take a week to update pbuilder ;)
<nixternal> they give you great 56k performance
#ubuntu-doc 2007-02-08
<LaserJock> nixternal: around?
<nixternal> LaserJock: yo yo
<LaserJock> nixternal: looking at your edubuntu-docs package
<nixternal> that bad?
<LaserJock> heh, no
<nixternal> hehe
<LaserJock> what did you base the package off of?
<LaserJock> ubuntu-docs?
<LaserJock> or the existing edubuntu-docs?
<nixternal> yup
<LaserJock> I think you can take out the Uploaders: field in debian/control
<LaserJock> also the debian/copyright needs a tweak
<nixternal> OK
<LaserJock> are the Edubuntu docs dual GFDL/CC-BY-SA
<LaserJock> ?
<nixternal> GFDL as of right now
<LaserJock> I thought the Ubuntu docs are CC-BY-SA
<nixternal> Will said to do whatever Ubuntu does though
<nixternal> brb, reboot this lappy
<LaserJock> k
<nixternal> k, back
<LaserJock> I think the Ubuntu docs are CC-BY-SA
<LaserJock> you also don't need the packaging guide mentions in debian/copyright
<LaserJock> and you might to dep on ubuntu-docs
<nixternal> roger
<nixternal> Ubuntu docs are CC-BY-SA, I will go through the copyright, and dep on ubuntu-docs
<nixternal> now, if Will and Rich decide to do CC-BY-SA, then I will have to change the xml files as well
* nixternal holds his tongue on the licensing
<LaserJock> what?
<LaserJock> they said GFDL?
<nixternal> who said GFDL?
<nixternal> edubuntu-docs are currently GFDL \o/
<LaserJock> well
<nixternal> but Will said he would rather do the same as ubuntu-docs
<LaserJock> why are they GFDL?
<nixternal> Because whoever decided to use the GNU license was smart? :)
<LaserJock> whatever
<nixternal> lol
<nixternal> I think I am lost
<nixternal> remember, I didn't start the edubuntu-docs, somehow I have taken them over
<nixternal> one day I offer to help, the next everyone is coming to me, scary
<crimsun> nixternal: so um, I happened to have the docs open, and https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk/libs/global.ent and https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk/kubuntu/libs/kde.ent both seem outdated ;)
<LaserJock> well the handbook seems to be CC-BY-SA
<crimsun> in the latter, <!ENTITY kde-version '3.5.5'> should be bumped
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3771 kubuntu/libs/kde.ent: who says they are outdated?
<nixternal> ;p
<nixternal> yay emacs!
<nixternal> thanks LaserJock for starting the bug
<LaserJock> your welcome
<nixternal> hehe
<crimsun> in the former, <!ENTITY linux-kernel-version "2.6.17"> , <!ENTITY glibc-version "2.3.6-2"> , and <!ENTITY python-version "2.4.4c0"> need to be adjusted
<nixternal> what is the new glibc version?
<nixternal> python is 2.5, that I know
<nixternal> 2.12?
<nixternal> no way we missed that many updates :)
<nixternal> I thought 2.4 was the latest
<crimsun> psht
<crimsun> dpkg -l libc6 python2.5 |grep ^ii |awk '{print $3}'
<nixternal> wow, 2.5 is the new one
<nixternal> well, 29-sep-2006
<crimsun> this is a fresh upgrade from a Kubuntu Herd-3 alt install
<LaserJock> crimsun: you needed awk for that?
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3772 libs/global.ent: up to date
<nixternal> how else could you ahve done it w/o awk?
<nixternal> cut?
<crimsun> remember, Jordan's a deity. He Thinks, and It Is.
<nixternal> lol
<nixternal> Krimsun, I see the closet door finally opened!
<LaserJock> ;-)
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> heh, ratemyprofessor has some silly stuff. You can see which students are stupid and which aren't
<crimsun> I'm not about to unleash GNOME on several thousand unsuspecting engineering students, no
<nixternal> smart man
<LaserJock> what?
<crimsun> I'm not about to unleash KDE, for that matter =)
<LaserJock> I would've done openbox, but whatever
<LaserJock> actually, their engineering students
<LaserJock> they get ratpoison
<nixternal> HEY!
<nixternal> I am thinking about electronics engineering as my next educational journy
<crimsun> guess you'll be using ratpoison
<nixternal> as you can tell, I need to journy (where did that e go) in english a lil
<nixternal> I need to get rid of the Chibonix
<nixternal> da tree of us went out to da bears game
<nixternal> now mix the Chibonics (not x) with a lil bit of a southern draw, and you get da nix
<nixternal> OK, I need to do something, brb
<LaserJock> geeze, I can't even imagine
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r3773 ubuntu/files-and-docs/C/files-and-docs.xml: Added clipart and sending docs section to files-and-docs
<mdke> gah
<mdke> philbull doesn't come on irc?
<LaserJock> not a lot
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r3774 ubuntu/ (files-and-docs/C/files-and-docs.xml office/C/office.xml): Reverted doc-file-fldr change and moved changes to office
<mdke> yay
<mdke> that was fast
<Ubugtu> New bug: #67949 in ubuntu-docs (main) "no "Preferred Applications" in "K-Menu->System Settings->User Account" " [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/67949
<Ubugtu> New bug: #84050 in ubuntu-docs (main) "Undefined entities in contribute.xml" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84050
<willvdl> mdke, I sent through a patch. Did it come out right?
<mdke> willvdl: yeah, I haven't looked at it though, I assume nixternal will deal with it
<willvdl> sweet, thanks
<willvdl> yeah good point, it was for the handbook
* mdke nods
<mdke> nice to have you working on that
<willvdl> It's my prime priority for this month
<willvdl> can only work with it during April again and then June which is a bit thin
<willvdl> mdke, I had a chat with Sean Wheller recently
<mdke> ah yeah?
<willvdl> he has some resources that could prove quite useful for the handbook
<willvdl> Handbook style docs are very popular at the mo
<willvdl> with every NGO doing ICT
<mdke> what sort of thing?
<willvdl> lots of wheels out there and he has collected some of it it seems
<mdke> wheels?
<willvdl> Well, a handbook needs quite a bit of "background" stuff, e.g. what is a network
<willvdl> ..the pointy end goes up etc
<willvdl> wheels as in reinvented docs saying the same thing (outside of ubuntu)
<willvdl> general ICT background stuff
<willvdl> I'd like to see how we can build the Handbook from resources that he already has
<mdke> ah right
<mdke> any license issues?
<willvdl> cc-by SA?
<mdke> I would have thought all our docs can benefit by "what is a network" stuff, tbh
<mdke> whether you call it a handbook or a help system, doesn't matter
<willvdl> well, topic based is perfect
<willvdl> I generally assume that the new edubuntu reader is less experienced than the new ubuntu reader which is probably wrong
<LaserJock> mdke: btw, are all the docs switched to CC-BY-SA only now?
<mdke> LaserJock: that's the idea, no?
<willvdl> apparently handbook needs to switch
<LaserJock> well, I mean, is it actually there in the XML?
<LaserJock> if it is we should adjust debian/copyright
<mdke> willvdl: hmm. I think the idea we've had is that we should cater for people who have no experience at all too
<stelis> willvdl: It's probably a fair assumption - in .edu people with Office/developer skills get pressganged into being the network admin
<willvdl> mdke, onw idea is to label chapters according to "Background Reading", "Essential Reading", "Advanced" etc
<mdke> LaserJock: certainly is for the Ubuntu docs
<willvdl> that way folks are bombarded with info that is not relevant to them
<LaserJock> mdke: and the packagaging guide is still shipped, but no in the frontpage?
<mdke> no, it's not shipped at the moment
<mdke> should we ship it?
<LaserJock> well, I thought I saw it in the .install
<LaserJock> no, I don't think we should ship it
<mdke> some loose files in .install, I'll tidy
<LaserJock> I think I'll keep it on doc.u.c and then have a standalone package for Feisty+1
<mdke> good idea. Or maybe wiki it?
<LaserJock> I'm still debating
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke * r3775 debian/install: deleting loose ends from packaging guide
<LaserJock> wiki might work, but right now I don't think we are set up very well for it
<LaserJock> it's a bit too book-like IMO for it right now
<LaserJock> is it CC-BY-SA 2.0 or 2.5?
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke * r3776 /trunk/ (debian/rules ubuntu/getting-help/): removing getting-help, stop shipping contribute.xml
<mdke> 2.0 atm
<mdke> at least the one we're shipping is :)
<LaserJock> hmm, ok
<LaserJock> the server guide on doc.u.c says 2.5
<LaserJock> about ubuntu says 2.5 also
<mdke> oh yeah, my bad
<mdke> LaserJock: they all use the same legalnotice.xml
<LaserJock> right
<mdke> however, common/C/ccbysa.xml is 2.0, we need to update that
<LaserJock> interesting, have you heard of CC-GNU GPL?
<LaserJock> mdke: I'm on it
<mdke> haven't heard of that no
<LaserJock> apparently CC is doing stuff with GPL LGPL
<LaserJock> ugg, CC licenses are a pain in the but
<LaserJock> +t
<willvdl> why so?
<LaserJock> the distribution is different
<LaserJock> it's supposed to be embedded
<LaserJock> I at least found the plain text version
<LaserJock> now I gotta docbookize it
<willvdl> oh, right. the graphics thingies?
<willvdl> ok, outa here. night
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke * r3777 ubuntu/ (18 files in 18 dirs): fixing get-pot.sh
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke * r3778 generic/server/C/ (17 files): updating with serverguide directory
<mdke> LaserJock: how can I clean a source tree after I've run debuild?
<mdke> it seems to have left crud around
<mdke> bah, will try in the morning
<mdke> night
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: mantha * r3779 /trunk/ (common/C/ccbysa.xml debian/copyright):
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: * updated ccbysa to 2.5
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: * updated debian/copyright to reflect that all docs are now CC-BY-SA 2.5 only
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: mantha * r3780 common/en/ccbysa.xml: oops, need to update the english version too I guess
<LaserJock> mdke: sorry, was fixing licenses. Ideally you wouldn't use debuild to build the .deb but pbuilder. but you can unpack the source package again via dpkg-source -x *.dsc
#ubuntu-doc 2007-02-09
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: mantha * r3781 /trunk/ (12 files in 12 dirs):
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: last one for today
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: * update ubuntu omfs for CC-BY-SA 2.5
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: * update global.ent for 2.5
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: * update en legalnotice for 2.5
<LaserJock> if I see another license today I'm gonna puke
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: bhuvan * r3782 generic/serverguide/C/file-server.xml:
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: Fix for issue 75080.
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: Include portmap package to be installed during NFS server installation.
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: Reported by: Trey Ethridge <tale@juno.com>
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke * r3783 debian/changelog: changelog entry
<LaserJock> mdke: did you see my license commits?
<mdke> LaserJock: yep, thanks a lot for those
<LaserJock> Xubuntu, Kubuntu, and Edubuntu need a lot of changes
<LaserJock> but I thought maybe I'd ask them first before mucking about with their files ;-)
<mdke> good idea
<LaserJock> but Ubuntu should be set I think
<mdke> cool cheers
<LaserJock> my good deed for the day ;-)
<mdke> hiya bhuvan
<mdke> how's the serverguide going?
<bhuvan> hello mdke
<bhuvan> i've not yet started in full. but planning to do so this week end; i bet i'll commit something during this week end!
<mdke> rock
<mdke> bhuvan: is there a lot of work to do still?
<bhuvan> mdke: i think so; i had to add material for couple of new topics viz. wiki, ldap, tomcat, drupal, etc.
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3784 edubuntu/handbook/C/introduction.xml: Will's Edubuntu introduction patch
<nixternal> willvdl: ^^ there you sir!
<willvdl> nixternal, chatting to pygi
<willvdl> thanks
<nixternal> ahh
<nixternal> how is he doing?
* nixternal grabs a bat and takes the dog for a walk :)
<nixternal> chicago style
<willvdl> poor dog
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3785 kubuntu/network/C/network.xml: added some network content
<linuxphotogeek> svn having troubles or is just me?
<linuxphotogeek> version 3785 - every file has a status of "unknown"
<Gwaihir> quick question: has the translate.sh script been obsoleted?
<penguinbrat> Hey all - how can I start helping out in documentation?
<LaserJock> penguinbrat: do you have an idea of what kind of documentation you are interested in?
<penguinbrat> Hi, it would mainly be for the apps that come with ubuntu, for example KDE
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> well, a lot of that's done by the upstream documentation team (like the KDE doc team)
<LaserJock> but we do a fair amount to sort of pull it all together
<LaserJock> penguinbrat: an HTML version of the current "in progress" documentation for Kubuntu can be seen at http://doc.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/C/index.html
<penguinbrat> Is that the standard for distro's - is to mainly go off what the individual teams put out? Teams as in those actually developing the product...
<LaserJock> to a large extent yes
<LaserJock> most distros don't write a lot of documentation for specific apps themselves
<LaserJock> more like "How do I do ...?"
<LaserJock> does that make sense?
<penguinbrat> Yeah, but it is just getting to old having to go to the internet and search for how to do somethihng - even if it is as simple as adding a contact in the address book.
<LaserJock> well sure
<LaserJock> that should be on your computer
<LaserJock> either written by the software authors or the distro doc team
<LaserJock> I'm just saying that there are two levels of documentation involved
<LaserJock> one is the applications themselves, and we don't really handle that (although it is still interesting to us)
<LaserJock> the other is the distro level, (what applications to use, how to get software, etc.)
<LaserJock> and that's what we mostly do
<penguinbrat> hmm, well here is where Im coming from...
<penguinbrat> Ubuntu rocks in numerous ways, and the apps on Linux rock in numerous ways
<penguinbrat> but for someone who is not technicallys inclined - just knows how to point and click
<penguinbrat> would obviously really rely on documentation - All distro specialize in one thing or another -
<LaserJock> sure
<penguinbrat> with there own graphics and everything, giving the look and feel - why couldn't the distro take up the slack in the documentation arena
<LaserJock> oh sure
<LaserJock> we do quite a bit
<LaserJock> we just let applications authors also do their part
<LaserJock> so for you, you might end up working with both the Ubuntu doc team and the KDE doc team
<LaserJock> did you look at that url I gave you?
<penguinbrat> yeah - and for an example, would be following the link to some of the games - it just gives a discription of what it is, not how to play it
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> we rely on the game authors to work on their documentation
<LaserJock> we can certianly help
<LaserJock> but it can become quite tricky
<LaserJock> as we have several thousand different programs
<LaserJock> we don't have the resources to document everythig
<LaserJock> the wiki certainly helps
<LaserJock> but we are nowhere near having full and usable documentation for every app
<penguinbrat> ofcourse, but we goit to start somewhere - I'm just thinking that the Docs is the one place LInux has always seriously lacked in, most developers are not that great in documentation
<LaserJock> and as most apps are used in a variety of distros it makes sense that the documentation for them would be done not at the distro level, but at the application level
<LaserJock> penguinbrat: sure, I agree
<LaserJock> so hop on board and help out :-)
<penguinbrat> Give me an app or something to document =)
<LaserJock> give me what you are interested in :-)
<penguinbrat> My thinking on doing it for the distro level is 1) give one team to deal with instead of dozens, and 2) I would think it would be the same as everything else - once we do it, the developers/other distros can snag it also...
<LaserJock> well, yes and no
<LaserJock> at this point the answer simply is that we don't have the resources (manpower) to do it
<LaserJock> but there's certainly nothing wrong with working with software authors to get better documentation
<penguinbrat> don't get me wrong, I would expect that there aren't a lot of peeps wanting to do this - thats where I was getting at with starting somewhere =)
<LaserJock> some of the issue is that sometimes software authors get a little upset when we just go messing around with their stuff
<LaserJock> KDE has a pretty extensive doc team
<LaserJock> if you want to work on KDE apps that's the place to go
<LaserJock> we also have Kubuntu people in the doc team
<LaserJock> for the distro-level docs
<LaserJock> so it's all there
<LaserJock> just not all at one place
<penguinbrat> KDE (or any developer) would really get upset if distro X spent some time and filled in all the gaps?
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> the do it with the software
<LaserJock> *they
<LaserJock> they do it with the translations
<LaserJock> it's just the nature of things
<LaserJock> I mean, we can certianly work with the software authros
<LaserJock> *authors
<LaserJock> but distro and application level documentation is seperate
<LaserJock> to change an applications documentation you have to change the applications source and packages
<LaserJock> the distro documentation is all in one package
<penguinbrat> No wonder documentation is so lacking under LInux =( Why would documentation not be treated the same way as the code itself?
<LaserJock> it is
<LaserJock> same thing happens with code
<penguinbrat> forking?
<LaserJock> not forking
<LaserJock> but people get a bit upset when the distro starts adding and subtracting code
<LaserJock> we try to have good communication and send patches back and forth
<LaserJock> and that can certainly be done with documentation too
<LaserJock> ok, so lets do a thought experiment here
<LaserJock> say you want to improve the konsole documentation
<LaserJock> what would you do?
<penguinbrat> That is what I'm referring to - I'm not talking about rewriting everything just write the stuff and of course give it to them for review and everything.
<LaserJock> how would you do it?
<LaserJock> sure, I'm saying that can be done
<LaserJock> but coordinating with the app's authors
<LaserJock> *by
<LaserJock> we just don't do a lot of that because, as I said, we don't have the resources
<LaserJock> but you are more than welcome to do it
<penguinbrat> I'll give it a shot - and I understand about the resources, that's why I'm stepping up =)
<penguinbrat> I don't want to rewrite anything, anything is better than nothing =) Would you recomend starting with a particular app, or just see what is out there - or rather not out there?
<LaserJock> I would say look at something you really  like using
<LaserJock> but doesn't have very good documentation
<penguinbrat> cool
<nixternal> OK you GNOME freaks, quit sabotaging my Kubuntu documentation build process :)
<nixternal> I swore I fixed that before, and now it isn't building again. Ahh more work
<LaserJock> nixternal: btw, did you seem my license commits for ubuntu docs?
<nixternal> LaserJock: I just did a quick "Call for Help" blog as well as some Wiki explanation to help fix the previous post by Mike Stemle
<nixternal> LaserJock: not yet, I just got home
<nixternal> if you want, fix Kubuntu's as well while you are at it :)
<LaserJock> I was going to let you ;-)
<nixternal> I have to do some quick chores, then I will be doc hacking
<nixternal> My Lord, I have way to much doc work to get finished in a month
<LaserJock> I just didn't want to change the license without confirming that it was indeed changing
<nixternal> ahh
<nixternal> CC-by-SA it is
<LaserJock> 2.0 or 2.5? :)
<nixternal> 2.5 I think
<nixternal> I don't follow CC licensing all that much, so I am just following along on this one
<nixternal> I went to Fry's today, a huge electronics store. They sell Freespire/Linspire desktops and laptops
<nixternal> that rocks. Soon they will be Kubuntu based!
<nixternal> As soon as they come out, I will go buy one just to support the effort
<nixternal> I gotta go do some work and quit procrastinating
<nixternal> bbiaf
<penguinbrat> Is there suppose to be help documentation for the Adept Installer?
<LaserJock> I think there is work being done on it
<LaserJock> we did have an adept guide
<LaserJock> that I think is being turned into the app documentation, or something like that
<penguinbrat> k
<nixternal> penguinbrat: jjesse is working on it for upstream
#ubuntu-doc 2007-02-10
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3786 kubuntu/network/C/network.xml: more content
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3787 kubuntu/network/C/network.xml: more network content
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: bhuvan * r3788 generic/serverguide/C/wikis.xml:
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: Add material for Wiki introduction. Include material for MoinMoin
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: wiki section and complete Installation, Configuration and Verification
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: sub-sections.
<nixternal> ooh, I am not the only one working tonight
<bhuvan> nixternal: it's daytime for me!
<nixternal> damn, it is 23:17 here
<mdke> morning
<jsgotangco> hi
<poningru> nixternal: that has to be the corniest blog post ever
<poningru> umm... http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2007/02/09/tech-wormdetector-20070209.html wtf isnt that icarus??
<poningru> err sorry wrong channel
<nixternal> haha
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: bhuvan * r3789 generic/serverguide/C/wikis.xml:
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: Add material for MediaWiki section. Added Installation and Configuration
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: subsections for MediaWiki.
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r3790 ubuntu/keeping-safe/C/keeping-safe.xml: Added backing-up section to keeping-safe
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r3791 ubuntu/office/C/office.xml: Clarifications and notes in sending-documents in office.xml
<nixternal> jjesse: what's up? :)
<jjesse> watching basketball
<jjesse> working on my book chpt and working on booking flights for next work assignment
<nixternal> ewww, it isn't any good until next month
<nixternal> I have been working on the KMail template documentation a little here and a little there
<jjesse> ah for that bug that came across
<nixternal> I need to finish the network.xml for Kubuntu docs today and maybe internet.xml as well
<nixternal> ya
<nixternal> nobody knows how they work, heh
<nixternal> I haven't even figured them out all of the way just yet
<jjesse> hmmm i wonder how much it will cost from grand rapids to salt lake city
<nixternal> shouldn't be to expensive
<jjesse> but it's ski season
<nixternal> true
<jjesse> $467.00 for one person
<jjesse> grand rapids -> denver -> salt lake city
<nixternal> jeesh
<jjesse> yeah i know, that's what happens when you don't live in as big a city as chicago :)
<nixternal> muhehe
<jjesse> $228 from o'hare to slc
<nixternal> that is a little bit better
<mdke> evening guys
<jjesse> hello mdke
* mdke high fives philbull
<nixternal> hiya mdke
<jjesse> man i hate my laptop
<nixternal> I love mine
<jjesse> i have one of those toshibas that is part of the group lawswuit
<jjesse> lawsuit
<nixternal> my silly little laser mouse (Microsoft) scroll wheel is starting to stick a little bit
<Admiral_Chicago> it was a pretty nice mouse
<Admiral_Chicago> i'm using these crappy emacs stock mouse, terrible. i miss my laser one
<nixternal> emacs stock mouse?
<Admiral_Chicago> err emachines
<Admiral_Chicago> having a rough day.
<jjesse> i have a vi mouse :)
<Admiral_Chicago> i was sitting in my programming course and we were talking about editors and the other ubuntu user and I were giggling because the professor was talking about vi and emacs
<jjesse> nixternal: how are kubuntu docs comming, what cna i help you on?
<jjesse> should the M in menu when referencing the k menu be capatlized?
<jjesse> i would like to say it should be
<Admiral_Chicago> i think it is Kmenu
<Admiral_Chicago> but i don't know for real
<jjesse> nixternal: Ping what are you doing for K Menu, K Menu or K menu or kmenu?
<nixternal> jjesse: KMenu
<nixternal> jjesse: everything is open for help!
<LaserJock> oohhhh
<nixternal> oooh
<nixternal> look what happens, I tell jjesse everything is open for help and he disconnects
<nixternal> feel the love
<LaserJock> on planet.debian.org they have a little thing on "capturing" CLI stuff
<nixternal> capturing?
* nixternal looks
<nixternal> interesting
<LaserJock> we were thinking how to do CLI screencasts
<nixternal> is that a screencast really or just a review of a history like file?
<nixternal> I wish he would have put up a demo
<popey> you could video using normal screencast tools
<popey> but just use the terminal full screen
<popey> or record using something like screen
<nixternal> I wonder how necessary a cli screencast would be though?
<popey> indeed
<popey> i am trying to avoid the cli as much as possible in my screencasts
<nixternal> all a person needs to do is type what you type, which can be done with <screen> in XML or <code> in HTML
<popey> it scares people
<popey> indded
<popey> and with the command line you can copy paste, which isnt easy with a gui
<nixternal> popey: that is awesome, exactly the point, try not to get the new people going OH SH!T DOS!!!
<nixternal> haha
<popey> :)
<nixternal> there was a guy working on a KDE screencast application, screenKast I believe was its name, I have no clue what happened
<nixternal> I know a lot of devs worked with him to get stuff fixed to have it included in universe
<popey> http://www.captorials.com/
<popey> that guy
<nixternal> ya, I think so
<popey> there are flaws with most of the screencast tools
<popey> in my opinion xvidcap is the best one
<popey> although it too has flaws, the author dropped me a mail asking how it could be improved, which is always good to see
<nixternal> no doubt
<nixternal> xvidcap recorded my screencast, but like in double time
<nixternal> so I would move the mouse slow, and then type, so people were like holy sh!t you type fast
<nixternal> hahaha
<LaserJock> nixternal: I'd like to do the whole packaging guide as a CLI "screencast"
<nixternal> WOW
<nixternal> that would be nuts
<popey> I would recommend getting a terminal full screen, and make the font nice and big, but small enough that you have plenty of column space
<nixternal> cool nonetheless, but nuts
<popey> 1024x768 type thing
<LaserJock> popey: but why not use this method that I found
<LaserJock> ?
<nixternal> apt-get source foobar
<nixternal> cd foobar
<nixternal> fix it up
<nixternal> dch -i
<nixternal> blah blah blah (closes: #1)
<popey> LaserJock: what method?
<nixternal> dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa -rfakeroot -k2e2c0124
<nixternal> cd ../
<nixternal> lintian -i *.dsc
<nixternal> well
<nixternal> linitian -i newfoobar.dsc
<LaserJock> popey: http://www.hermann-uwe.de/blog/capturing-and-replaying-console-terminal-sessions-with-script-and-scriptreplay
<nixternal> pbuilder-feisty build newfoobar.dsc
<nixternal> dput revu *source_changes
<nixternal> oh
<LaserJock> althought the disadvantage would be that this method would actually run commands on the user's computer
<popey> how would someone watch it?
<nixternal> cr!msun: ping ^^ upload that please :)
<popey> people like to watch videos
<popey> and on different platforms
<popey> what if they are on dapper and your script needs edgy (for example)
<LaserJock> well, but that sort of defeats the purpose
<popey> if it is an mpeg/ogg/avi/flv they can watch anywhere
<nixternal> LaserJock: that would be kind of cool though, there are some things I would like to see done
<nixternal> i.e., merges that have to be done manually due to errors
<popey> LaserJock: depends what the purpose is surely?
<nixternal> LaserJock: was I supposed to do the MIR for edubuntu-docs btw?
<nixternal> I think I forgot until just now
<LaserJock> nixternal: oh yeah
<LaserJock> popey: sure
* nixternal fires up emacs-wiki :)
<nixternal> LaserJock: I am using it full time now
<LaserJock> emacs?
<nixternal> my only issue is spell checking is cruddy, but tother than that
<nixternal> yes
<nixternal> and Feisty + Emacs == crappy fonts, so you have to use a default instead of some nice ttf fonts
<nixternal> 1) Edubuntu docs MIR, 2) Kubuntu Docs, 3) KMail Docs for KDE 4, 4) KHelpCenter + Strigi code
<nixternal> shush
<nixternal> heh, Ubugtu noticed me that he couldn't find a kde bug 4 :)
#ubuntu-doc 2007-02-11
<LaserJock> I managed to get good fonts in emacs
<LaserJock> had to get emacs packages from theCore
<LaserJock> hmm, I'll have to think about "screencast of terminal" vs "CLI log"
<nixternal> hmm, theCore has the goods ey
<nixternal> I will have to contact him and see what is so special about his
<nixternal> I have all of he syntax highlighting and what not. The Chicago GNU/LUG gave me a ton of pointers
<nixternal> PIZZAS HERE!!!
<LaserJock> he compiles with some flage
<LaserJock> and then I run emacs --enable-font-backend --font "Bitstream Vera Sans Mono-12"
<LaserJock> nixternal: you running edgy or fiesty?
<nixternal> LaserJock: feisty
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> I've got edgy .debs for emacs
<nixternal> No fonts match `Bitstream Vera Sans Mono-12'
<nixternal> that's what I get when I try to run it that way
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> you have to recompile it with some font support thing enabled
<nixternal> xfont support I believe
<nixternal> don't know why our package wouldn't have it
<LaserJock> I think there might be a reason Debian doesn't do it, not sure
<LaserJock> nixternal: the other thing is I usually run emacs in a terminal anyway
<nixternal> I was doing the same, but having it opened in another window is nice
<LaserJock> I just use a seperate terminal window when I want to do that
<LaserJock> the only thing is I'm not good enough with emacs to do without the menu for certain things
<nixternal> ahh, I remove the menus, scrollbars and what not from .emacs
<nixternal> it forces you to become proficient with the meta keys
<nixternal> Ctrl-x Ctrl-f to open a file
<nixternal> Ctrl-x Ctrl-s to save
<nixternal> Ctrl-x Ctrl-c to close
<nixternal> that is all I need right now :)
<LaserJock> well, I can do those fine
<LaserJock> it's just specialty menus that some modes add
<nixternal> oh, and Alt+q == hard word wrap
<LaserJock> theCore: hi!
<theCore> hello LaserJock
<LaserJock> theCore: do you have emacs packages for Feisty?
<theCore> yes
<theCore> I just made it :)
<LaserJock> theCore: I think nixternal might be interested in them
<LaserJock> and I am to as I'm upgrading to fiesty right now
<theCore> http://debs.peadrop.com
<theCore> LaserJock: be careful, Feisty is a mined area, right now
<theCore> I have been bitten by more than one bug
<theCore> I got about 10 bugs to submit, and 3 of them are show-stopper bugs
<LaserJock> well, I don't think I'll have much of any problems
<LaserJock> but I'll be on the lookout
<LaserJock> I hardly ever find bugs
<theCore> LaserJock: any update on the packaging guide?
<LaserJock> theCore: kinda
<LaserJock> it's not being shipped anymore
<theCore> :'(
<LaserJock> well, it'll come back in full glory ;-)
<LaserJock> I'm going to ship it as a separate package
<LaserJock> the changes made in Ubuntu and Kubuntu for Fiesty make the packaging guide not fit in very well
<theCore> the topic-based help changes?
<LaserJock> yeah
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3792 kubuntu/network/C/network.xml: Kubuntu networking content
<nixternal> hrmm, it seems the cron job isn't running on the server
<nixternal> hola jsgotangco!
<jsgotangco> hello nixternal how are you doing
<nixternal> tired, very tired
<nixternal> trying to get all of the Kubuntu and Edubuntu docs done within the next month
<jsgotangco> heh you should take it esay
<nixternal> school keeps getting in my way :)
<jsgotangco> heh i am enjoying my time at the moment
<nixternal> I am always enjoying my time, stress and all :)
<jsgotangco> i am more involved with sahana now
<nixternal> nice
<nixternal> so that is keeping you busy
<jsgotangco> it is a good project and i know some of the people behind it very well
<nixternal> that's cool
<nixternal> I wonder how many people on the kubuntu-users list or the edubuntu-users list wants to write some documentation
* nixternal needs a drink, break time (RSI)
<Ubugtu> New bug: #84484 in ubuntu-doc "Launchpad recommends translating ubuntu-doc's main--deleted" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84484
<mdke_> Laser_away: is it possible to get the packaging and server guides building as standalone binary packages from the ubuntu-docs source? Does feature freeze prevent us from doing that for feisty?
<mdke_> nixternal: good job on the rustling up of contributors
<j1mc> where should we report bugs for Xubuntu-doc bugs?  i have found two similar links
<j1mc> link 1: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-docs/+bugs
<j1mc> link 2: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/feisty/+source/xubuntu-docs/+bugs
<nixternal> mdke_: that call snagged 2 people interested. whew, and both of them claim they are tech writers.
<nixternal> one scared me by claiming he is on location in Redmond, Washington writing for a large vendor
<mdke_> nixternal: nice
<nixternal> hrmm, How come the artwork final deadline is after the string freeze? That kind of makes it difficult to do screenshots and get them into the docs
<mdke_> nixternal: yes, it's because they didn't really think much about doc string freeze (as opposed to programs string freeze)
<mdke_> nixternal: anyway, we can have all the strings ready by freeze and add screenshots without any problem afterwards
<nixternal> kind of stinks, but hopefully there won't be an artwork mess this time around
<mdke_> course there will be :)
<nixternal> ya, I am planning on doing that, at least get the information in there, with a temp image placeholder
<nixternal> hehe
<mdke_> what sort of screenshots are you planning on using?
<nixternal> hey, good job on the new Yelp layout, it looks really good
<mdke_> thanks, needs a bit of visual tweaking, but it's a start
<nixternal> I really don't know yet, but just in case
<mdke_> not my work really, don took it over
<nixternal> it is very clean, I like it
<nixternal> I am hopefully doing something similar for Kubuntu, but not sure if we are tying it into KHelpCenter of using Konqueror for all help yet
<nixternal> I can't believe we are already a month away from freezing, 2 months from release
<nixternal> time flew by on this one
<mdke_> yup
<nixternal> jjesse: do you have any problems running Feisty in VMWare?
<nixternal> any funky boot up messages
<philippbieber> nixternal: I read your post on the Ubuntu Users Mailing List and would like to help on the documentation, though I'm not entirely sure where...
<nixternal> philippbieber: rock on!
<nixternal> there are pleny of places to start. is there any one section that you are fairly proficient with?
<philippbieber> I could offer translating the docu to German, is there any need for that?
<nixternal> there will be that need come next month for sure
<nixternal> March 8th is when we submit the docs to the translation teams
<philippbieber> OK, I'll mark that date for me
<philippbieber> From those points mentioned in your mails, I think I could do some work on Desktop Configuration
<nixternal> let me take a look and see what all needs some working there
<philippbieber> OK!
<nixternal> hrmm, I need to remove a bunch of stuff from it, i.e., Networking, partitions and booting
<nixternal> when I think of "configuring your desktop", I think of customizing the look of it and what not
<philippbieber> Wallpapers, Themes, Icons,...
<mdke> me too
<nixternal> philippbieber: exactly
<philippbieber> Also something like the 3D desktop?
<nixternal> there seems to be one section called "Desktop Tips"
<nixternal> 3d desktop? please don't say Beryl or Compiz :)
<mdke> it's probably a good idea to cover that actually, it will be a popular task
<nixternal> mdke: when it works :)
<philippbieber> I'd love to say Metisse, but yeah, that's what I had in mind ...
<mdke> nixternal: there are lots of different degrees of "works"
<philippbieber> I didn't have any problems with it ... =/
<nixternal> mdke: true, if we document it, document it for NVidia cards only then
<nixternal> Beryl doesn't work with ATI, and works here and there with Intel
<philippbieber> Then I'd be no good choice for 3D or I'd have to do something for INTEL
<nixternal> and with NVidia cards, they have to be of the newer generation cards
<nixternal> philippbieber: are you using Beryl on an Intel?
* nixternal is using integrated Intel and was interested in playing with Beryl
<nixternal> but as it stands, I have 2 standalone desktops, 1 NVidia GF4 and 1 ATI Radeon 9700, Beryl will not run on either of those
<philippbieber> I have a INTEL GMA 950 and it worked out of the box and flawlessly with Beryl (under Edgy
<philippbieber> )
<nixternal> rock on, I guess I am slowly working up the nerve to install it and configure it
<nixternal> the sad thing, the ATI issues with Beryl are ATI's fault for not allowing composite
<philippbieber> It's not hard... I used the Beryl Upstream Repos and from there I installed the current version
<nixternal> as for NVidia, they made a lot of their cards like the GF4 and older part of the legacy driver, which Beryl won't support
<philippbieber> I installed it, launched it and it worked
<nixternal> nice
<philippbieber> on my girlfriends laptop it was the same
<nixternal> I guess I will work on trying it out here one of these days
<philippbieber> but I'm afraid, its not too productive
<philippbieber> ...
<nixternal> ya, that is the one thing I dislike about it
<philippbieber> You can always disable it ;-)
<nixternal> right now, I am having issues with VMware and installing vmware-tools, and I was going to try Virtualbox but that doesn't work either
<philippbieber> Can't help you on that one.. I was planning to do that when I got some spare time...
<philippbieber> Oh, one question for the documentation: Should I take the 6.10 documentation and addapt it to 6.14 or rewrite it?
<nixternal> https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk
<nixternal> that is all of the 7.04 documentation
<nixternal> it was branched/created from the 6.10 documentation
<philippbieber> OK, I'll use that as a basis and the adapt it to 6.14
<philippbieber> *7.04
<nixternal> heh, ya, 7.04
<philippbieber> 'Till when should I turn in the results?
<nixternal> whenever you have something really, we have less than a month to go now, so the sooner the better
<philippbieber> OK, I'll take my time this week!
<nixternal> cool, if you need help, I am around quite a bit, plus there are others in here that can offer a hand
<nixternal> Mon-Thu I am in school all day, but I check in from time to time
<philippbieber> But I gotta go now (have to get up early tomorrow)
<nixternal> brb, need to take the dog out so he will leave me alone :)
<nixternal> cool philippbieber, I really appreciate the offer!
<nixternal> and the help
<philippbieber> No problem!
<nixternal> my email is nixternal@ubuntu.com if you need to email me stuff to check out
<philippbieber> I'll check in tomorrow or Tuesday (I'm in school, too)
<nixternal> hehe, cool!
<philippbieber> :))
<nixternal> alright, go get some beauty sleep :)
<philippbieber> Ok, I'll write that down ^^
<nixternal> hehe
<philippbieber> thanks ;-)
<philippbieber> cya around!
<nixternal> g'nite
<philippbieber> good night everybody!
<nixternal> man, I am glad he brought up the customizing desktop section, as it is currently horrible, plus some of it has been broken out into other documents already
<Burgundavia> mdke: crack or serious crack: telling people to manually edit their menu.lst?
<nixternal> serious crack :)
<nixternal> especially since it will change with the next kernel upgrade
<Burgundavia> yep
<jjesse> nixternal: no problems so far
<nixternal> I can't install vmware-tools
<jjesse> interseting haven't tried
<nixternal> it just hangs for me
<jjesse> nice to someone interseted in helpoing out
<jjesse> w/ kubuntu docs
<nixternal> no doubt
<nixternal> I am glad he picked the section he did as well
<nixternal> it needs some major overhauling
<jjesse> can you get adept updater to work?  i just brought up a herd 3 vm and adept updater isn't working
<mdke> Burgundavia: certainly some kind of crack
<nixternal> jjesse: I believe it hasn't been fixed since Herd 3, but I am not 100% positive
<nixternal> I don't use Adept
<jjesse> i only use adept for documentation work
<nixternal> ya
<LaserJock> mdke: well, they would probably go to Universe for feisty at least, and the Universe FF is 22nd
<LaserJock> mdke: but I suppose you could build the binary packages from the ubuntu-doc source package
<LaserJock> although I'd rather do it as seperate source for the packaging guie
<mdke> LaserJock: how come?
<LaserJock> well, mostly I like the idea of not being so tied to the ubuntu-docs release schedule
<LaserJock> if I make the packaging guide release neutral it really shouldn't matter
<LaserJock> maybe I'm just being lazy ;-)
<mdke> you mean in terms of string freezes?
<jjesse> would a lot change from relase to release for the packaging guide
<mdke> I don't see that there is any release schedule that applies to ubuntu-docs that doesn't also apply to the packaging guide, tbh
<LaserJock> jjesse: I hope to make it very release neutral. Basically it should reflect the "this is what we are doing right now"
<LaserJock> mdke: well, that's fairly true
<LaserJock> but I don't know that it makes sense for me to have a "edgy" packaging guide or "feisty" packaging guide
<LaserJock> rather packaging guide version 1.2 or 2.3, etc.
<LaserJock> at least that's how the Debian docs are done
<mdke> can't you do that with a single source package?
<LaserJock> except I'm tied to the ubuntu-doc releases
<mdke> really? in terms of numbers?
<LaserJock> I can't make a release of the packaging guide without making a release of ubuntu-docs
<mdke> well, ubuntu-docs releases are just time snapshots
<mdke> I don't see that being a problem still
<LaserJock> well, it depends on how we treat it
<LaserJock> if I get the developer's reference going it would probably work fine
<LaserJock> the thing I'm finding is that we need more policy/reference type documentatoin
<LaserJock> and that needs more version contol, IMO
<LaserJock> if I just had the "learning how to create Debian/Ubuntu packages" that wouldn't be bad
<LaserJock> once it's basically done it shouln't change much
<mdke> ok, so maybe a separate package. It sounds like a shame though, we already have too many debian directories
<mdke> it would be nice to have em all single source :)
<LaserJock> yes, I honestly hadn't thought of just building a seperat binary from the ubuntu-docs source
<LaserJock> I actually think that would be the way to go
<LaserJock> and *if* needed split off the source down the road
<LaserJock> I tend to think I'll (or somebody anyway) be working on another seperate policy doc
<LaserJock> and we can shift some material to that
<crimsun> what would go into the separate policy doc?
<mdke> anywhere certainly it would work for the server guide?
<mdke> anyway*
<LaserJock> I think a lot of this stuff we have on the wiki
<LaserJock> SRUs, etc.
<mdke> the server guys didn't respond to my appeal on the bug report to make us a package, and my post to the -server mailing list has never been moderated through the queue.
<LaserJock> crimsun: we *should* have an Ubuntu Developer's Reference
<jjesse> why does it seem like it is so hard to get developers respond to *-doc requests?
<LaserJock> I'm not sure how much actual policy that would have, but we don't have an Ubuntu Policy planned that I know of
<mdke> jjesse: it's not; it's hard to get developers to respond to any requests; that's open source, to some extent
<mdke> but they respond quite well to -doc requests, in general. that's my experience
<LaserJock> it shouldn't be hard
<jjesse> mdke: just noticed your frustration w/ the server mailing list, geting that launcpad bug fixed and a couple of other issues the team has had
<LaserJock> I just don't know if FF would apply
<crimsun> jjesse: because no curriculum or best practices has emphasized strongly enough the integration of documentation in design and implementation
<mdke> it's just that the -server mailing list seems to be totally dead
<mdke> jjesse: the server developers are a bit worse than the main ones :)
<mdke> LaserJock: who would I ask about that?
<mdke> I'll mail fabio maybe
<jjesse> crimsun: that's too bad
<crimsun> LaserJock: was there a technical reason we couldn't have just modified Debian's?
<LaserJock> I would tend to think since we are just splitting ubuntu-docs into ubuntu-docs server-guide and packaging-guide
<LaserJock> it wouldn't be a prblem
<mdke> right
<LaserJock> no new source, just binary NEW
<LaserJock> crimsun: that was the plan
<mdke> yes. I'll take it up with someone tomorrow
<LaserJock> crimsun: although I wanted to do it in docbook rather than debiandoc
<LaserJock> crimsun: there is a docbook version of the DDR but the maintainer doesn't seem to care too much about it
<crimsun> right, I remember that as the "technical" issue.
<LaserJock> well, back in August I thought it was going to be a wait of a month or two
<mdke> LaserJock: we have a few scripts and bits in debian/rules and so on which all depend on having an updated list of the documents that we are shipping; since the topics occasionally change and the list shifts slightly, it would help to be able to have a central file in which to store this list of documents. Is there a simple way to get all the scripts to call from such a list?
<jjesse> nixternal: ping
<jjesse> nixternal: what exactly is going to happen w/ kubuntu release notes
<nixternal> they are going on the website
<jjesse> ok
<CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke * r3793 ubuntu/translate.sh: uploading work-in-progress slightly better translate.sh script
<nixternal> mdke: ping
<mdke> nixternal: (In case I'm not around at the moment, please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I get back)
<nixternal> heh
<nixternal> that was quick
<nixternal> doh
<nixternal> I am sorry for that, I forgot about your script
<mdke> note also that I said something 5 minutes ago, so I'm likely to be around
<nixternal> mdke: anywho, you are requested in #ubuntu-meeting
<mdke> ok, if it's quick
<jjesse> whats going on in #ubuntu-meeting
<nixternal> that would mean I would have to scroll up :)
<nixternal> jjesse: loco meeting
<jjesse> oh
<LaserJock> mdke: should be easy, maybe put a file in common/ or something with the list
<LaserJock> mdke: in a script you should be able to do something like for doc in `cat ../../common/ubuntu-list` do blah
<mdke> LaserJock: and should the doc names be space separated in the file or on a different line?
<LaserJock> I *think* space seperated
<LaserJock> although either might work, but you might have to do it a little differently
<LaserJock> my shell knowledge isn't the best
<LaserJock> crimsun would know
<LaserJock> mdke: either way works
<mdke> wow, cool
<mdke> I'll pursue that definitely
<mdke> we may be edging slowly towards implementing that spec
<LaserJock> mhm, I'll help if I can, just can't promise much these days :/
<LaserJock> gotta run
<mdke> thanks Laser_away
#ubuntu-doc 2008-02-04
<frank23> I'm trying to build the kubuntu documentation
<frank23> I think I have a working branch of  kubuntu-hardy setup
<frank23> frank@monster:~/ubuntu-bzr/ubuntu-doc/kubuntu-hardy.frank1$ make
<frank23> warning: failed to load external entity "ubuntu/libs/ubuntu-banner.xsl"
<frank23> Do I have to run make from ubuntu-doc?
#ubuntu-doc 2008-02-05
<frank23> in which branch is the most recent kubuntu documentation?   ubuntu-hardy/kubuntu or kubuntu-hardy/kubuntu ?  what's the difference betweeen the 2?
<nixternal> kubuntu-hardy/kubuntu
<nixternal> but nothing has been updated just yet
<nixternal> we are waiting for GUI freeze so we can start the editing
<frank23> That's what I figured. I was just trying to figure out bzr and building the documentation
<frank23> I can build the kubuntu docs in the ubuntu-hardy branch but not in the kubuntu-hardy branch
<nixternal> if you cd into the kubuntu directory, you should be able to easily run make in that directory
<nixternal> I haven't tried building them in kubuntu-hardy, I may have to pull in some extra libs yet
<nixternal> though, I thought I pulled in all of the necessary libs..I will have to check
<nixternal> haven't had much doc time here recently
<frank23> yeah I think there are things missing
<nixternal> OK, thanks for bringing that up..I will go through and look in a little bit at what might be missing
<frank23> ok
<frank23> will there be separate documentation for kde3 and kde4 in hardy?
<nixternal> ok, I am test building it now to see where it break
<nixternal> for hardy we will have a little bit of KDE 4 docs
<nixternal> our main push will obviously be for hard+1
<nixternal> frank23: trying running:  make all
<nixternal> it is building fine for me, the kubuntu-hardy branch
<frank23> xsl:import : unable to load ubuntu/libs/ubuntu-banner.xsl
<nixternal> what branch do you have checked out?
<frank23> there is no ubuntu directory in the kubuntu-hardy branch
<nixternal> we wouldn't use ubuntu-banner.xsl anyways
<frank23> It's http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/ubuntu-doc/kubuntu-hardy
<nixternal> we use kubuntu-banner.xsl which is located in kubuntu/libs
<frank23> I started with the http://calcium.ubuntu.com/~mdke/ubuntu-doc-initial.tar.bz2 then checked out kubuntu-hardy from the local shared repository then
<frank23> then branched a working copy kubuntu-hardy.frank1
<frank23> then frank@monster:~/ubuntu-bzr/ubuntu-doc/kubuntu-hardy.frank1$ bzr merge https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/ubuntu-doc/kubuntu-hardy
<frank23> then commited that
<nixternal> that is interesting
<nixternal> something weird happened with your merge
<frank23> I don't know bzr well at all
<nixternal> obviously I don't either...I say at I am r3630 when there are obviously 3632 revisions
<nixternal> guess bzr up doesn't work like I am used to
<frank23> heh
<nixternal> now we are at r3632
<nixternal> let me try this again
<nixternal> stupid bzr has to many ways to do the same thing
<frank23> oh its working now
<frank23> i ran make within the kubuntu subdirectory
<nixternal> I was still able to build it fine with the latest checkout
<nixternal> make all
<nixternal> that is what you want to run with the Makefile
<frank23> maybe the problem is with my makefile in the root directory of the kubuntu-hardy branch
<nixternal> kubuntu-hardy/kubuntu
<nixternal> ya, the makefile in the root directory is probably pretty banged up, and I don't think should be there actually
<nixternal> it was used to build all of the docs at once for the website
<frank23> I was trying to run make from kubuntu-hardy
<frank23> that's probably all it was
<nixternal> it is, because that make also tries to build Ubuntu, Edubuntu, and Xubuntu documentation
<frank23> yep
<nixternal> I will hack that really quick
<frank23> Anyways I'd be interested in at least proofreading the kubuntu docs for hardy once they get going. I had worked a bit on the kubuntu dapper docs
<nixternal> try and update your checkout, it should be fixed up now
<nixternal> if it doesn't update right away, give it a few minutes and try again
<nixternal> bzr is silly slow like that for some reason, or at least used to be
<nixternal> 3634. By  Richard A. Johnson <nixternal@kubuntu.org>  1 minute ago
<nixternal> don't need this makefile anymore
<nixternal> showing it on LP, so I am guessing it works quick now
<frank23> ok i got the changes
<nixternal> now the Makefiles should be in kubuntu/
<nixternal> s/Makefiles/Makefile
<frank23> ok
<frank23> is kubuntu-kde4 just a copy of kubuntu right now?
<nixternal> right now it is
<nixternal> you planning on helping us out with some Kubuntu docs?
<frank23> I could help some I think. not sure how much time I'll have
<nixternal> I was going to say, I need to go through and create a TODO list pretty soon
<nixternal> it could be small, or it could be large
 * nixternal hopes for small
<nixternal> my doc time is limited big time now by development time
<nixternal> jenda: you still alive man? I haven't talked to you in ages
 * nixternal throughs jono a Michael Jackson CD! That is real rock-n-roll man...
 * nixternal pukes
<Liz> rebooting brb
<cwo_plin_plan_pG>  nnj
<ubotu> New bug: #57831 in kdeadmin (main) "KDE Network Settings docs broken" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/57831
#ubuntu-doc 2008-02-06
<jenda> nixternal: yo
<jenda> nixternal: alive, yes
<jenda> nixternal: too busy to live up here, yes as well :)
<Bassetts_> Hi, is anyone around?
<sommer> hello
#ubuntu-doc 2008-02-09
<kiefer> Hey, Im interested in joining the Ubuntu Documentation Team :)
<kiefer> Anyone around?
<ubotu> New bug: #190452 in ubuntu-docs (main) "Make sure people who tries out Ubuntu, will install and will always use it" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/190452
<j1mc> hi all - is anyone around?  i have a xubuntu docs question.
<j1mc> basically, within the xubuntu docs, there's some server docs: xubuntu-hardy/generic/server/C ...  i'm just wondering whether i should keep them as part of the overall xubuntu doc package.
<j1mc> do the kubuntu doc folks keep the server docs included, too?
<jjesse> j1mc: yes we do
<jjesse> we use what is in gneric/ as well
<j1mc> jjesse: thanks.  do you plan to merge in the latest ubuntu-doc server changes for this release?
<j1mc> do you taken any special approach in merging in the changes from the most recent release?
<nixternal> j1mc and jjesse:  Kubuntu doesn't include nor ship the server docs anymore
<nixternal> server docs have been separated into their own package
<nixternal> !info ubuntu-serverguide
<ubotu> ubuntu-serverguide (source: ubuntu-docs): The Ubuntu Server Guide. In component main, is optional. Version 7.10.4 (gutsy), package size 1984 kB, installed size 25356 kB
<jjesse> so generic/serverguide isn't included in kubuntu?
<j1mc> jjesse: nixternal ... i keep up with the changes to the ubuntu branch, but not the kubuntu branch . . . do you think that the generic/serverguide thing got included in kubuntu and xubuntu just as part of the conversion to bzr?
<j1mc> i see separate branches for kubuntu, edubuntu, ubuntu and xubuntu ( https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu-doc ) but don't see a separate branch for the serverguide.
<nixternal> jjesse: no, it was removed a couple releases back
<nixternal> j1mc|away: very well could have been included that way
<jjesse> ah ok
<jjesse> sorry afk most of the time
#ubuntu-doc 2008-02-10
<ubotu> New bug: #190685 in ubuntu-docs (main) "Brasero needs documentation and needs improvement." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/190685
<sn0> hey all, just checking i did the right thing :) i posted a bug against ubuntu-website for a typo on the ubuntu server guide documentation
<sn0> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website/+bug/190714
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 190714 in ubuntu-website "Managing DNS Entries section of ubuntu serverguide has a 404 on sample resolv.conf" [Undecided,New]
<frank23> i'm comparing the ubuntu docs to the kubuntu docs and I find the ubuntu docs have defined better the user they're aiming to help (new user or anyone wanting to know the simple ways to do different tasks)
<frank23> for example in the installing applications section, there is no need to present aptitude and no need to say how to start adept from the command line
#ubuntu-doc 2009-02-03
<l3on> mdke: are you there?
<mdke> l3on: (In case I'm not around at the moment, please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I get back)
#ubuntu-doc 2009-02-04
<m3gam_> Hi, anyone here?
<m3gam_> There's some corrections needed in the networking help files
<m3gam_> (for Jaunty)
<m3gam_> I'm trying to correct an issue with the system documentation in Jaunty - most of the networking information is now out of date - It states the wrong menu entry for how to edit connections, but I;m not sure how to change it
<m3gam_> P.S. I'm new
#ubuntu-doc 2009-02-05
<l3on> mdke: ping
<mdke> l3on: (In case I'm not around at the moment, please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I get back)
#ubuntu-doc 2009-02-06
<l3on> mdke: ping
<mdke> l3on: (In case I'm not around at the moment, please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I get back)
<jpds> l3on: How many times have you pinged him?
<l3on> jpds: untill he answers to my mail... ;)
<jpds> l3on: I'm sure he'll get round to that sooner or later.
<l3on> I wrote him 3 days ago... I'm worried for his health :D
#ubuntu-doc 2009-02-08
<Junowat> hi all
<Junowat> is there a moderator for this channel?
<Rocket2DMn> Junowat, what you need to talk to mdke
<Rocket2DMn> is something wrong?
<Junowat> well I had a question
<Junowat> I had a problem with one of the ubuntu wiki pages (something was unclear)
<Rocket2DMn> which page?
<Junowat> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<Junowat> so I went to the page to create a new revision
<Rocket2DMn> ok, wiki.ubuntu.com isn't really our domain but we can help you with editing
<Rocket2DMn> (we primary do official docs and community docs on help.ubuntu.com)
<Rocket2DMn> so you went to edit, then what?
<Junowat> well do you know who that domain belongs to?
<Junowat> yes so I edited the page the way I liked
<Junowat> then I hit preview to see what my edits looked like
<Junowat> then I hit submit/change (I forget the name of the button)
<Junowat> but instead of going through some approval process, the page changed automatically
<Junowat> which surprised me because I didn't know I had full access to do that.
<Junowat> I just want to make sure I didn't do anything wrong
<Junowat> in the worst case scenario, the admin can simply revert the page to the previous version
<Rocket2DMn> when you Preview it doesnt update the page yet, but after you click submit it does
<Rocket2DMn> there is no approval process
<Junowat> oh I see.
<Rocket2DMn> if somebody were to royally mess up a page, it can be rolled back to an older revision
<Junowat> oh okay
<Junowat> so then "anyone" can edit the wiki.ubuntu.com pages?
<Junowat> I was looking to join that particular team.
<Rocket2DMn> the same is true on the (more official) community docs at help.ubuntu.com/community/
<Junowat> speaking of which, how do I join the docs team?
<Junowat> I do a lot of documentation in my career
<Rocket2DMn> the actual official system docs are at help.ubuntu.com , and to edit those you need to commit changes to the ubuntu-docs bzr branch.  for that you need training and to have permissions
<Junowat> oh I see
<Junowat> okay
<Junowat> fair enough
<Junowat> well then I have no problems
<Rocket2DMn> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/WikiTeam
<Rocket2DMn> that is the team for working on the community docs, you dont have to be on it, but if you do like to contribute, its nice to be there.
<Rocket2DMn> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-wiki
<Rocket2DMn> its a subteam of ubuntu-doc
<Rocket2DMn> if you want to be on the doc-team, then you apply for https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-doc-students
<Junowat> I see that now.
<Junowat> well that's great
<Junowat> is there any rule of thumb for what I need to do to join this team?
<Rocket2DMn> you should have a smal portfolio of pages that youve worked on that you can show the team admins
<Rocket2DMn> there is a section on the WikiTeam wiki page
<Rocket2DMn> Applying to the WikiTeam
<Rocket2DMn> you should also get on the mailing list
<Rocket2DMn> there is a pretty in depth set of pages on the team wiki for the doc-team and its subteams - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam
<Junowat> I got it all now
<Junowat> thanks for your help
<Junowat> there is so much info there
<Junowat> It is sometimes hard to find it all
<Junowat> <tree search>
<Rocket2DMn> no problem, i understand
<Junowat> thanks a bunch Rocket2DMn
<Junowat> Is that a "honeymooners" reference?
<Rocket2DMn> no
<Rocket2DMn> its not a reference to anything, its just an old name that stuck
<Junowat> ha okay (gave it a shot)
<Junowat> thanks again
<Rocket2DMn> no problem man
<icheyne> hi all
<icheyne> I tried to add some tags to the wiki, but they won't load when I refresh the wiki page
<icheyne> have they been disabled or something?
<icheyne> <<Include(Tag/Unsupported)>>
#ubuntu-doc 2010-02-09
<miha> hello guys, is there an official ebook .pdf for ubuntu? :D and if there is one, can it be localized? :D
<miha> !help
<ubot4> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
#ubuntu-doc 2010-02-10
<shaunm> anybody happen to know what version of webkit is going into the next stable release?
<jpds> webkit |   1.1.20-1 |         lucid | source
<jpds> (subject to change)
#ubuntu-doc 2010-02-12
<lukjad86> Hi, #ubuntu-doc ?
<lukjad86> Are there any launchpad users who can give me a hand here?
#ubuntu-doc 2010-02-14
<AJH101> hello - i am non techie but would like to help if poss (and if my young family allows! lol)
<AJH101> i have read about lots of initiatives and wiki's but do not know where to begin! :-)
<Rocket2DMn> mdke, if you get a chance can you please look at bug 518117, I don't want to leave contributors patches out there for too long, otherwise they might not continue to help
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 518117 in ubuntu-docs (Ubuntu) "Internet 8.2.1: The button uses an icon not 'unlock', and the field is labeled "Password" (affects: 1)" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/518117
#ubuntu-doc 2011-02-08
<johnny77> hello, I'm looking to join the Ubuntu Beginners Team working with the community wiki. Looking over the Orphaned Page list, I noticed some pages about Dual-booting.
<johnny77> These pages look to be replications of a larger page that may be in the process of being broke into smaller.
<johnny77> Is anyone working on these pages?
#ubuntu-doc 2011-02-10
<johnny77> Hello, is there any way in the Community Documentation to find ever page that links to page X?
<snap> hi we have a full documentation on how install ubuntu server 10.04.1 lucid???
#ubuntu-doc 2011-02-11
<wmorri> Hi, I coming from the Fedora world and have experience with dockbooks and wonder if there are any pages that need to be worked on?
<wmorri> I am coming back from fedora and have experience with dockbook. I am wondering if there is anything that needs to be worked on?
<wmorri> I am looking for help with where to start with writing system docs. I have expereince with Dockbook, but don't know what needs to be worked on.
<zkriesse> wmorri: Dude, just give it itime
<wmorri> okay
<UndiFineD> what, apple owns time now ?
#ubuntu-doc 2011-02-12
<head_victim> wmorri: did you see the links I pasted the other day? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation will show you how to get started. If you're confident from previous experience they have a link to "tasks" at the bottom of that which will give you an idea of what needs doing currently.
<wmorri> head_victim: thanks for posting that link for me again. I will take a look at the task page and see if I still feel comfortable enough to work on some
#ubuntu-doc 2012-02-06
<diwic> Hi! The wiki page https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SoundTroubleshootingProcedure is completely crazy and you're more likely to destroy your sound stack than to fix it if you use the instructions. Yet someone seems to maintain it. What is the suggested course of action?
<head_victim> diwic: My suggestion, have a play around with creating a new page in a sandbox area and seeing if you can correct the issues.
<head_victim> Or if it's just a line or two here and there, edit it in place (but add comments to why you've changed it)
<diwic> head_victim, at least 90% of the page is broken.
<diwic> head_victim, and we have official guides for sound troubleshooting
<head_victim> diwic: Maybe just contact the "maintainer" and suggest it be set up as a redirect to the official guide?
<head_victim> It would seem odd to duplicate an official guide with an unofficial guide.
<head_victim> Hmm https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SoundTroubleshooting has a note at the top referring people to the official one. Perhaps that's a better idea.
<diwic> head_victim, yeah, I just added that one.
<diwic> head_victim, because it seemed old, outdated and unmaintained. But this one is 1) even worse in terms of quality and 2) someone seems to maintain it
<head_victim> Why is the "official" one on wiki.u.c though, help.u.c is more suitable for that sort of information I would have thought.
<diwic> head_victim> Why is the "official" one on wiki.u.c though <- well, of that I have no idea, and I'm happy to have the official one anywhere.
<head_victim> wiki.u.c is more for team collaboration, help.u.c is for user documentation, sorry little bug bear of mine :)
<head_victim> Anyway, if it's really that out of date I'd suggest liaising with the maintainer of the other document and discussing why they think it's necessary to have so much broken information there. They maybe just have added to stuff without ever culling or something. If you get no luck, email the -doc ML to see if a consensus could be reached.
<head_victim> And on that note I have to head AFK. If no one else drops by to help with the question I'd hit up the ML.
<diwic> ok, thanks.
<head_victim> Hah, I just looked up your launchpad page. To be honest, if you're suggesting something is broken, just point elsewhere or change it. You appear to be in a position of knowledge that would be hard to rival.
<diwic> head_victim, heh, thanks :-) I just don't want to hurt anyone's feelings; want to nurish the community
<head_victim> But if you want to tread carefully/nicely making it public on the mailing list might be ccovering yourself more considering the level of maintaining the other person appears to have done.
<diwic> and I'm afraid that using too rough hands might scare people off
<head_victim> diwic: no problems, community is what makes Ubuntu what it is.
<diwic> maybe I should start a general discussion about it on the #ubuntu-doc ML?
<head_victim> At least point out the possible pitfalls of the current structure and suggest what items could be improved.
#ubuntu-doc 2012-02-07
<philipballew> DOes anyone know of any Lubuntu offline docs?
<MrChrisDruif> If they do, also ping me ;-)
<philipballew> ok if noone has any I volunteer MrChrisDruif to write it :)
<MrChrisDruif> <_<"
 * MrChrisDruif #redirect to philipballew 
#ubuntu-doc 2012-02-08
<jbicha> just a heads up, I just filed bug 929126
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 929126 in light-themes "Help viewer shows white text on white background in precise" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/929126
#ubuntu-doc 2012-02-09
<jbicha> mdke: new itstool has landed in precise so you can retry the ubuntu-docs build
#ubuntu-doc 2012-02-10
<jan-simon> hi
<jan-simon> While translating the doc, i've found a string that sounds confused. maybe a native speaker could help me to verify this:
<jan-simon> To click, double-click, and drag with your touchpad, select  <gui>Enable mouse clicks with the touchpad</gui>. To click,  tap on the touchpad. To double-click, tap twice. If your touchpad  supports multi-finger taps, you can right-click by tapping with two  fingers at once. To drag an item, double-tap but don't lift your finger  after the second tap. Drag the item where you want it, then lift your  finger to drop. You still need
#ubuntu-doc 2013-02-04
<phillw> hi guys, any one about to point out my idiot coding that does not show {{{ }}} tabs as per https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GnuPrivacyGuardHowto being showed without the grey highlighting and box as I have on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom/Section3#Classroom_Session_3
<phillw> Please.... do not tell it me a CSS bug!!!!
<cjohnston> i think its very possibly a bug
<phillw> cjohnston: I thought this CSS issue was resolved something like a year ago :(
#ubuntu-doc 2013-02-05
<phillw> cjohnston: I have as showing 'light' on both systems. How is it that https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GnuPrivacyGuardHowto and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom/Section3#Classroom_Session_3 does not?
<cjohnston> phillw: are we sure that they run the same version of the theme?
<phillw> cjohnston: they call it the same theme, but as my email mentioned.... I've been here before when themes have been updated for one, and not the other. I REALLY hoped it had been nailed on the head & would never see it again.... It seems I was wrong :(
<phillw> frustrating to the N'th degree. they *really* should run a new theme by QA... But, meh,.... that's just be wanting it work. The tests are avaialble for anyone making a new theme...
<phillw> cjohnston: Whilst I am wiki editor, I cannot roll back a CSS (theme) because the supposedly more informed person than I has not actually tested it. C'est la vie :)
<phillw> i'd have to do some serious digging to find the last guy, who is now more bug-fixing, to ask if he would humble himself to once again correct a mess up on a CSS area. I cannot guarantee he will will oblige to look through it and correct it..... but, He's a decent person and I do think he would do it again.... I do, however, think that such changes should be QA'd before being implemented.
#ubuntu-doc 2013-02-07
<dholbach> hiya
<dholbach> I'm here for the CC, as we wanted to check in with the Docs team
<dholbach> we just started the meeting in #ubuntu-meeting
<dholbach> so anyone who can give a quick update on the team would be much appreciated :)
#ubuntu-doc 2013-02-08
<czajkowski> jbicha_: ping can you give me a shout when online please.
<jbicha_> czajkowski: community council?
<czajkowski> jbicha: yup
<czajkowski> nobody showed from the docs team for the meeting yesterday
<czajkowski> all ok?
<jbicha> yes we're fine, but the docs team is barely active these days
<jbicha> I happened to be afk at meeting time yesterday & didn't put it on my calendar
<jbicha> personally I've been thinking for a while about more or less resigning but offer to help someone get up to speed over the next few months as I need to reduce my responsibilities somewhat and I'm busy with Ubuntu GNOME stuff
<czajkowski> nods
<czajkowski> well I've an action item from the CC to reschedule the meeting
<czajkowski> but just trying to find a slot now tbh
<jbicha> sorry that no one showed but it's a sign that the team is badly undermanned
<czajkowski> jbicha: is the 4th of April too far  to meet up ?
<jbicha> czajkowski: yeah I'm not really looking that far ahead, I guess I can put it on my calendar this time though and we'll see
<czajkowski> jbicha: if you prefer earlier I can work something out n the calendar with dholbach
<jbicha> yes I'd prefer earlier if it's not too much trouble
<czajkowski> ok will go and see what we can do
<czajkowski> jbicha: how about the 28th  of this month ?
<jbicha> oh it was 1700 UTC yesterday, I was taking my wife to see the doctor at that time so that's my excuse :|
<jbicha> ok I've added feb 28, 1700 utc to my calendar
<jbicha> I'm usually online at that time
<czajkowski> great
<czajkowski> jbicha: what is your email address so I can send to you please
<jbicha> it's my username at ubuntu
<czajkowski> thanks
<czajkowski> jbicha: sent
<czajkowski> thank you
#ubuntu-doc 2014-02-03
<dsmythies> Desktop help, US English version, builds with no errors at all. This has been a long time coming.
<dsmythies> However, html is still looking for yelp-code.png. I'll try to determine if I messed up my "git pull"  and build and install from upstream
<dsmythies> shaunm: Thanks for the https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=709943 fix.
<dsmythies> shaunm: Is there some delay between what you do and what I get when I do "git pull" to my local copy?
<dsmythies> shaunm: I ask because I don't seem to have the yelp-code.png watermark change that you did earlier today, nor did I get any change at all just now (i.e. for the 709943 change).
<dsmythies> shaunm: My git points to: remote.origin.url=git://git.gnome.org/yelp-tools
<ubot2`> Gnome bug 709943 in DocBook "yelp-xsl/xslt/common/html.xsl missing a fundamental docbook tag conversion" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<shaunm> dsmythies: both of those are changes in yelp-xsl, not yelp-tools
* pratchett.freenode.net changed the topic of #ubuntu-doc to: Ubuntu Documentation Team - visit https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam to contribute | Channel log at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Please observe the Ubuntu Code of Conduct - http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct
<shaunm> git user needs bzr help. I have local changes to ubuntu-docs. how do I submit them for review?
<belkinsa> Where is the ChanServ?
<dsmythies> belkinsa: It is there for me. Note IRC has been having grief due to DOS hackers. I have been locked out for about 19 hours, until just a few minutes ago.
<belkinsa> I know of what happened.
<dsmythies> I didn't know until shaunm told me via e-mail.
<belkinsa> I was D/Ced and wasn't able to connect from last night until afternoon today.
<dsmythies> shaunm: Thanks very much for taking the time to look at our stuff and submitting the patches. We are pushing towards more and more validation and like that strict will now work. I will be adding notes to the checking wiki page.
#ubuntu-doc 2014-02-04
<dsmythies> godbyk: I observe some overlap between Ubuntu and Debian maintainers of yelp-xsl and yelp-tools. So I am hoping that the bug reports I entered, and set to "critical" importance will be good enough, and that I won't have to pester at the Debian level (which I am not sure how to do anyhow).
<godbyk> dsmythies: Here's hoping.
<godbyk> dsmythies: I wouldn't think it'd be that difficult to update the yelp stuff as there aren't many dependencies (and what dependencies there may be haven't changed).
<godbyk> dsmythies: But I don't really know as I'm not a packager.
<godbyk> (Someday I should learn how to do that sort of thing.)
<dsmythies> godbyk: I agree. Note however, that I was unable to use the newer yelp-xsl on my 12.04 server due to dependcy issues. I had to move to my me 14.04 VM. The newer yelp-tools were fine on my 12.04 server though.
<dsmythies> godbyk: It is actually more than just hoping at this point. It is a MUST, in my opinion. And sooner rather than later, so that everyone that helps review using a 14.04 computer will be seeing the same thing.
<dsmythies> godbyk: Correction: ... so that everyone that helps review using a 14.04 computer will be seeing the correct things. (Obviously, they will all see the same thing, which might be different than when using the latest stuff.)
<dsmythies> shaunm: When I decided that Docbook <keycap> should be bold, in addition to how it used to look, I used this reference: http://www.docbook.org/tdg5/en/html/keycap.html
<dsmythies> shaunm: re-reading https://bugs.launchpad.net/serverguide/+bug/1173426 , I see that I also made the surrounding box a more visible grey.
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1173426 in Ubuntu Server Guide raring "html - new theme - <keycap> in .xml does not display with differentiation" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<shaunm> dsmythies: docbook doesn't specify that keycap MUST be bold. it happens to be the rendering used by the docbook-xsl stylesheets
<shaunm> yelp renders a lot of things differently from docbook-xsl
<dsmythies> shaunm: Thanks for the inofrmation.
<dsmythies> shaunm: Via bug reports, I have requested the new yelp-tools and yelp-xsl be included for trusty. Do you want your name added to those bug reports, so that you get any info? I already added Kevin's name.
<shaunm> sure
#ubuntu-doc 2014-02-06
<Ekushey> hello all
<Ekushey> can i ask a wiki related question here?
<knome> yep
<Ekushey> how do i redirect a wiki page to another?
<Ekushey> what tag do i use?
<knome> #REDIRECT NewPageName
<knome> that should work...
<knome> if not:
<knome> #REFRESH 0 NewPageName
<Ekushey> thank you very much
<Ekushey> trying that
<Ekushey> knome: it is taking me https://wiki.ubuntu.com/0 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewPageName instead NewPageName directly
<knome> hmm... what's the page you're trying to redirect?
<Ekushey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ekushey to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Russell
<Ekushey> i'm noob at wiki stuff...
<knome> Ekushey, fixed it.
<knome> wait, i didn't, or there's some caching
<knome> i would imagine caching
<Ekushey> cleared my browser cache, still seeing the same thing
<Ekushey> what did i do wrong, knome?
<knome> i've no idea :)
<knome> i'm looking into it
<Ekushey> thanks :)
<Ekushey> looks like server-side cache
<knome> something like that
<Ekushey> are you with the wiki team, or the docu team knome?
<knome> i'm doing stuff here and there
<knome> my main work is done with xubuntu, of which i'm the project lead at the moment
<Ekushey> wow! it's an honour to talk to you then :)
<knome> heh, you're welcome ;)
<Ekushey> :)
<knome> humph, i deleted the page and i'm still redirected
<knome> Ekushey, which one did you try first? redirect or refresh?
<Ekushey> refresh
<Ekushey> brb knome, we're having a meeting on #ubuntu-bd
<Ekushey> i'm back, knome. looks like all the same...
<Ekushey> is it possible to delete the page and create again?
<dsmythies> Ekushey: You should be able to revert the page yourself and then try again. Go to: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ekushey?action=info
<Ekushey> ok dsmythies trying that
<dsmythies> Ekushey: Hmmm... Looks as though someone did delete it.
<dsmythies> somehow I did not see knone's comment that he deleted it. I was still getting redirected until a few minutes ago.
<knome> dsmythies, looks like some server side cache maybe :/
<pleia2> meeting in a few minutes, we'll have it here because #ubuntu-meeting is busy
<pleia2> meetingology has joined us for the day :)
<meetingology> pleia2: Error: "has" is not a valid command.
<knome> haha!
<belkinsa> For what?
<knome> yay for not having to chair a meeting <3
<belkinsa> Ah.
<pleia2> yeah, who wants to chair? :)
<pleia2> a resounding echo
<pleia2> #startmeeting Documentation Team
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Feb  6 22:00:32 2014 UTC.  The chair is pleia2. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
 * belkinsa is here for the meeting
<godbyk> pleia2's on top of things today! :-)
<pleia2> #chair knome dsmythies godbyk bkerensa
<meetingology> Current chairs: bkerensa dsmythies godbyk knome pleia2
<pleia2> in case I get pulled away re: work :)
<pleia2> we have an agenda!
<pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/MeetingAgenda
<knome> pleia2, sorry, i was following the other meeting...
<bkerensa> oh I happen to be in my office so looks like I'm in attendance
<bkerensa> :D
<pleia2> #topic Ubuntu Classroom Sessions scheduling
<pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Classroom
<pleia2> so we have topics decided, we just need to select a day
<dsmythies> I can do the Serverguide classroom session. Sorry, I didn't notice before (or forgot) that I was supposed to sign up.
<pleia2> thanks dsmythies
<pleia2> we want to do this at a time when telling people this stuff is still useful for the team if they want to join, so before any kind of freezes
<pleia2> late february? march? weekday or weekend?
<belkinsa> Weekend works the best for me.
<dsmythies> The sooner the better, weekday or wekend O.K. for me.
<belkinsa> Though the week of March 17-23 is free for me.
 * pleia2 pulls up a calendar
<godbyk> I'm usually available except for Tuesdays and Fridays.
<pleia2> I'm out of town that week, maybe the week before?
<pleia2> or maybe March 1 or 2?
<belkinsa> Sure, but MWF works the best for me.
<pleia2> that's saturday and sunday
<pleia2> Sunday, March 2nd would be best for me
<belkinsa> That works.
<belkinsa> Either day.
<pleia2> (I try to take off on Saturdays :))
<godbyk> I don't have anything scheduled for March 1 or 2 yet.
<dsmythies> Sunday March 2nd O.K. for me.
<pleia2> ok, I'll firm up with the other instructors
<pleia2> #decided March 2nd for Documentation Day Classroom sessions
<dsmythies> We really need people to review docs against 14.04 computers. Should there be a classroom session on how to create and use a virtual computer for this purpose?
<pleia2> (is that a thing on this bot?)
<pleia2> dsmythies: I was thinking that would be covered in godbyk's session
<dsmythies> O.K.
<pleia2> but if we don't think there is enough time, we can do a general "creating a VM for all docs" session
<godbyk> pleia2: try 'agreed'
<pleia2> godbyk: ah :) thanks
<pleia2> #agreed March 2nd for Documentation Day Classroom sessions
<pleia2> #topic Progress on Desktop Docs GNOME documentation sync
<pleia2> I know there's been a fair amount of discussion on this topic (whether we're even doing it)
<bkerensa> I will let godbyk start off since he is doing the syncing
<pleia2> I added this, mostly because I would like to know when it's ok for me to say "ok people, go review docs and submit bugs about grammar+functionality"
<godbyk> I'll take a look at syncing everything this weekend.
<GunnarHj> Whatever we will decide about the syncing, I think that anybody can start reviewing and correcting the present state of the docs right now.
<dsmythies> In my opinion, we are ready for 14.04 docs review now.
<dsmythies> However, does anyone know fo some any doc pages that should be put on hold, due to pending changes that would/could make the page obsolete?
<godbyk> I don't think it'll take me too longâespecially since I can strip out the conditionals now.
<bkerensa> GunnarHj: exactly
<bkerensa> there is no reason that spelling and grammar fixes should not be throughout the entire cycle
<godbyk> dsmythies: I have no idea what changes are coming in 14.04. Have we found good sources for that info yet?
<pleia2> bkerensa: well if the entire page is going to be replaced with a synced version, eek
<pleia2> I don't want to waste peoples time
<dsmythies> I don't know either
<bkerensa> godbyk: There are lots of things coming... Some of this is identifiable from watching the package changes in ubuntu-desk
<bkerensa> others we would need to ping the ubuntu-desktop team
<bkerensa> fwiw last cycle nobody was very helpful
<pleia2> bkerensa: have you been keeping an eye on that?
<bkerensa> nobody on the desktop or unity teams
<pleia2> package changes == reading changelog?
<GunnarHj> Actually I don't think there are a lot of things that affect the docs.
<bkerensa> pleia2: I have not ideally this is something we need desktop team to do
<pleia2> bkerensa: but they won't, we need to get past this and stop complaining about it
<godbyk> For a while, I subscribed to the changes lists for packages, but there was entirely too much traffic for me to manage. It was like drinking from a fire hose.
<pleia2> GunnarHj: yeah, as an LTS I was hoping not a ton of innovative things were happening :)
<bkerensa> pleia2: so ultimately they provide the info to release team
<bkerensa> so they are doing it
<bkerensa> they just are not shattering it with us
<bkerensa> sharing*
<godbyk> bkerensa: Just not very early though, right?
<pleia2> bkerensa: they get this to the release team at day zero
<bkerensa> because the info ends up in the release notes
<bkerensa> yes
<pleia2> not early enough for us
<bkerensa> but they work on it weeks before
<bkerensa> usually a month before release
<GunnarHj> I think we can simply check out whether the current state of the docs is still applicable by comparing it with an updated 14.04.
<bkerensa> sure
<bkerensa> but we will need to break down areas by components maybe
<bkerensa> and delegate reviewing components to certain people
<bkerensa> and hope that no last minute changes happen
<bkerensa> worst case scenario if a last minute change lands after freeze we can SRU
<bkerensa> or get a string freeze exception
<pleia2> let's cross that bridge when we get to it :)
<GunnarHj> Yeah, breaking it down and divide responsibilites is a good thought.
<pleia2> I know you're frustrated after last cycle, but we need to try to be practical
<dsmythies> I was just hoping to not waste time is all.
<bkerensa> dsmythies: +1
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> it's an LTS, there shouldn't be any last minute surprises
<godbyk> pleia2: famous last words. ;-)
<bkerensa> LOL
<GunnarHj> pleia2: Right. (They are all busy with the phone anyway.)
<pleia2> godbyk: yeah, but historically it actually has been accurate :)
<pleia2> GunnarHj: heh, there is that
<pleia2> ok, too much bitterness in this meeting so far ;)
<pleia2> so, should I start telling people to review the docs?
<knome> belkinsa, ping me when it's your turn on the other meeting :D
<pleia2> or wait until after the weekend and godbyk looks at things
<belkinsa> knome, sure.
<GunnarHj> pleia2: Indeed you should.
<dsmythies> did we agree then, conditionals can come out (and already are, actually, and look and feel can deviate
<bkerensa> I agree reviewing it now is probably good
<bkerensa> There is so much to be reviewed
<godbyk> dsmythies: I'm for removing the conditionals so we have one less potential issue to trip over.
<pleia2> ok cool, Documentation is one of my 5 tasks I'm talking about at an Ubucon later this month and I have a blog post on the topic to write ;)
<GunnarHj> godbyk: Wouldn't that break things for UbuntuGNOME?
 * bkerensa looks forward to hearing the talk at Ubucon
<pleia2> I don't know what Ubuntu GNOME does about docs, but this would be the ubuntu documentation package
<godbyk> GunnarHj: The GNOME docs are an entirely separate set of files on Ubuntu. So our changes to ubuntu-docs won't impact GNOME docs at all.
<pleia2> yeah, that
<pleia2> ok, anything else on this topic?
<GunnarHj> godbyk: Are you sure that UbuntuGNOME refers to the GNOME docs? After all it's an Ubuntu flavour.
<godbyk> GunnarHj: Yep. We've tested it before.
<pleia2> #action godbyk to look at gnome sync this weekend, conditionals will be/are removed
<meetingology> ACTION: godbyk to look at gnome sync this weekend, conditionals will be/are removed
<dsmythies> Gunnar: Yes. we tested
<GunnarHj> godbyk: Ok.
<pleia2> #agreed ok to recruit reviewers now
<godbyk> GunnarHj: If by 'UbuntuGNOME' you're referring to running GNOME shell under Ubuntu.
<godbyk> GunnarHj: If it's a separate distribution, then they're on their own.
<pleia2> Ubuntu GNOME is a flavor
<pleia2> (like Xubuntu)
<dsmythies> I think, but am not sure, that it what I tested.
<bkerensa> I would like to add an item to the agenda if we can squeeze it in that being Documentation Release Process
<pleia2> #topic Guidelines about wiki work
<dsmythies> Gunnar: can we go off line and make sure we are talking about the same thing?
<GunnarHj> dsmythies: Sure, after the meeting?
<dsmythies> O.K.
<pleia2> belkinsa & knome - all yours :)
<GunnarHj> I brought that item up on the agenda.
<pleia2> oh, GunnarHj!
<pleia2> sorry :)
<knome> hehe
<GunnarHj> But more people ought to be interested. ;-)
<knome> yeah, i just wanted to read it
<belkinsa> The next item is mine though it might need to be only talked about and get used.
<knome> and comment
<GunnarHj> I'm just wondering how we will reach conclusions and actions with respect to those topics.
<GunnarHj> Thinking of discussions about tags and page deletion.
<knome> GunnarHj, do you have a clear summary of the current state of the discussion in mind?
<knome> or does it look like it's not clear what people want to do
<GunnarHj> I'm not that updated...
<pleia2> I admit, I kind of lost track of this discussion :(
<knome> right
<GunnarHj> As regards page deletion: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2013-December/018472.html
<belkinsa> I think the same also.
<knome> i think there never was a clear conclusion to things
<knome> which is why we're still wondering :)
<GunnarHj> knome: Right.
<knome> i think the less tags we have, the better.
<GunnarHj> knome: Me too.
<belkinsa> Agreed.
<knome> i don't mind if a tag is a bit off
<knome> at least people who care *look* at the page
<GunnarHj> Better fix than adding tags.
<knome> yep
<bkerensa> Yeah
<knome> and about deleting pages...
<belkinsa> Yes, but we need to find people that will fix the pages if the info is outdated.
<knome> i know some people *cough*pleia2*cough* disagree, but we should be braver in deleting
<bkerensa> So might I say that I think its worth a thought to consider a migration to mediawiki next cycle to address outdated pages?
<pleia2> yeah I hate deleting :)
<belkinsa> Mediawiki?
<bkerensa> the software that wikipedia is powered by
<knome> bkerensa, how would a migration to another wiki software help with outdated pages?
<pleia2> bkerensa: have you spoken with IS about this?
<pleia2> I think the last thing we need is another migration
<bkerensa> knome: They have a stale content tool
<belkinsa> Wasn't eagles0513875_ talking about this a few months ago and a few meetings ago
<bkerensa> belkinsa: yeah
<knome> and how does that tool help us update the pages?
<pleia2> I think he was talking about an entirely new system
<GunnarHj> I indeed agree with knome that we should be braver as regards deleting.
<bkerensa> knome:  It gives a list of ones that are outdated
<pleia2> I don't think rehashing this is productive
<bkerensa> without tagging
<belkinsa> Yeah, I only see a easy to see comment thing for that system.
<pleia2> I can be ok with deleting stuff as long as we aren't too aggressive about it
<knome> bkerensa, without tagging, but with some more resource usage by mediawiki
<pleia2> we should make ever effort to redirect pages to proper documentation
<belkinsa> Agreed.
<GunnarHj> There was an idea on the list with 'soft deleting', i.e. redirect to a special page. See the above link.
<knome> i don't think migrating software is a solution to our problem, really
<knome> the information page about deleted content is ++
<bkerensa> pleia2: but if the proper doc does not exist and we don't know content is outdated then how do we address that?
<bkerensa> MoinMoin is lacking in identifying outdated content
<belkinsa> Even in the new versions?
<pleia2> bkerensa: tagging works fine for us
<bkerensa> 2.0 is supposed to be better
<knome> bkerensa, we don't have a software problem
<pleia2> knome: +1
<GunnarHj> bkerensa: People identify outdated contents, software does not.
<knome> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2013-December/018490.html
<bkerensa> fair enough
<belkinsa> knome, +1 It's how we deal with the stuff.
<knome> ^ my comment on the "soft deletion" / "deletion information" page idea
<GunnarHj> knome: Yeah, I remember.
<bkerensa> fwiw http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Category:Outdated_pages maintenance pages/stale content tools are win because if a page has not been updated in a release cycle it can be automagically listed
<pleia2> knome: so perhaps we do our best to redirect to a relevant page, and if not we go to a deleted page info page?
<knome> pleia2, exactly
<GunnarHj> pleia2: Right.
<knome> pleia2, which explains the reason (a tag), then at some point redirects the user to a "where do i go now?" -page
<pleia2> wfm
<knome> i'll need to work on the soft deletion page
<knome> #action knome to work on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DeletedPageDraft
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to work on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DeletedPageDraft
<knome> that's actually a POC!
<knome> go to that page
<pleia2> #agreed Do our best to redirect to a relevant page, and if not send people to DeletedPageDraft
<knome> and you'll be shown the reason why a page was deleted, then redirected to the front page
<belkinsa> That works.
<pleia2> thanks knome :)
<GunnarHj> knome: ;-)
<knome> pleia2, ....which should have a better name than *Draft later
<pleia2> knome: hah, right
<pleia2> GunnarHj: any more on this topic?
<knome> but sure, works for now
<GunnarHj> Nope.
<knome> umm,
<knome> tags?
<pleia2> ok cool, thanks for bringing it back up
<knome> are we content with the tags we have now?
<knome> or do people think we need to reconsider them?
<pleia2> tags now are good
<knome> oki
<knome> then i'm all good if pleia2 is content with the tags
<belkinsa> Same.
<GunnarHj> +1
<pleia2> #topic Guidelines about using prefixes in mailing-list
<pleia2> phew, not belkinsa's turn at the membership board meeting yet ;)
<knome> hehe
<belkinsa> Okay, we have the three or four prefixes : [Wiki], [server], [desktop], right?
<knome> i think using prefixes is sane.
<godbyk> I like the prefixes, too.
<knome> helps me filter out my mail :)
<belkinsa> I think they should be used to differate what we are talking about
<pleia2> just as long as it doesn't turn into an issue that we yell at people about for not doing
<belkinsa> I think we need to make a wiki page or have this written down something and use it/
<pleia2> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-doc can be updated to explain the tags
<belkinsa> +1
<GunnarHj> belkinsa: +1
<dsmythies> I agree with prefixes (I just have to remember to use them)
<pleia2> so someone should draft up what each are, and email ubuntu-doc-owner@lists.ubuntu.com to update the list
<godbyk> pleia2: Good idea.
<knome> yep, no need to shout
<belkinsa> I shall do this since it's my item that I brought up.
<knome> the basic idea is to be able to filter/moderate the amount of mail one needs to look at
<pleia2> #action belkinsa to draft up details of tags and email ubuntu-doc-owner@lists.ubuntu.com to update the list info
<meetingology> ACTION: belkinsa to draft up details of tags and email ubuntu-doc-owner@lists.ubuntu.com to update the list info
<pleia2> thanks belkinsa!
<belkinsa> Not a problem.
<knome> if something isn't catched in the filter... well, we all get spam anyway.
<pleia2> my brain is bad at adding tags :)
<knome> heh
<knome> fortunately it's your fingers that type them ;)
<belkinsa> Aye, no program can do prefixes yet.
<pleia2> #topic Documentation Release Process
<pleia2> bkerensa: all yours!
<bkerensa> So ideally there seemed to be some confusion last cycle as to what the release processes are
<bkerensa> and I just hoped to see if anyone godbyk or dsmythies had questions about that?
<dsmythies> There were a couple of issues...
<bkerensa> I'm applying for PPU for the ubuntu-doc package so ideally it won't be as troublesome to get the package uploaded since everyone is busy at that point and not much sponsoring occurs that late
<godbyk> bkerensa: Ah, that's good to hear.
<dsmythies> first, the translators task list is based on the package and not the project. This cuased greif. So this cycle we need to update the package at doc freeze, otherwise translators complain.
<bkerensa> yes
<bkerensa> One thing I am also thinking is next cycle I might consider taking on more of just a release management role for docs if thats of interest
<godbyk> Is there a crib page on the wiki that walks someone through the release process?  If not, it'd be great if we could create one.
<bkerensa> that being handling our release/upload but also tracking our bugs to ensure we square away issues that will impact our users
<dsmythies> Second: and in my opinion, there is a problem in launchpad, where it will back date stuff and it is really really confusing as to who did what when.
<bkerensa> godbyk: there is a list of stuff to do on mailing list that jbicha left
<bkerensa> and its basically that + packaging plus doing some tasks on LP that are not documented and as dsmythies points out is troublesome
<godbyk> bkerensa: Could you help me expand that and put it on the wiki?
<GunnarHj> dsmythies: back date?
<dsmythies> The process for upload, as Benjamin knows, is unlcear to me, and remains so.
<GunnarHj> dsmythies: I think that could be easily straightened out.
<bkerensa> dsmythies: so the process for uploading is that its packaged and a debdiff is generated
<dsmythies> Gunner: I'll have to find and example, It is incredibly annoying. But no information is given as to who accpeted something or when, it gets backdated.
<bkerensa> and a developer with upload rights then uploads it
<godbyk> Perhaps it's only my own ignorance, but I get the impression that a lot of the knowledge of the details of the release process are tucked away in a few people's heads and I'd like to get it written down somewhere public so someone else could go through the entire release process on their own if those knowledgeable people fall off the face of the planet.
<bkerensa> I don't have upload rights for ubuntu-docs so in this case I have to nag a core dev
<pleia2> godbyk: +1
<dsmythies> yes, but the date can be be weeks ago.
<dsmythies> ... wait I misssed a bunch of text...
<GunnarHj> I have PPU rights for a couple of packages. Can try to get it for ubuntu-docs as well.
<bkerensa> godbyk: so the release precedes as far as getting the branch ready for packaging and upload are on the mailing list
<dsmythies> gobdyk: There is an exact "how to be a doc committor for serverguide page. the same is needed for dektop.
<pleia2> GunnarHj: I think it would be great to have a couple folks on the team with PPU for docs
<GunnarHj> pleia2: Yeah.. And we should apparently document this somewhere.
<pleia2> indeed :)
<belkinsa> +1
<bkerensa> godbyk: in regards to packaging and uploading it I think this is something that should be a pathway for devs
<pleia2> bkerensa: can you work with godbyk to document some of this process in public?
<pleia2> s/this process/the release process
<bkerensa> pleia2: which part?
<godbyk> bkerensa: everything. :)
<pleia2> everything, it's currently scattered in mailing lists posts and brains
<bkerensa> sure
<GunnarHj> Let's not reinvent the wheel now...
<pleia2> #action bkerensa to work with godbyk to document the release process
<meetingology> ACTION: bkerensa to work with godbyk to document the release process
<bkerensa> in regards to the packaging bit I think we need to encourage people to follow the developer pathway
<pleia2> yeah, we can link to docs on that as needed
<pleia2> but I've been around for a while now, and I still don't have a high level view of how this magic happens
<dsmythies> yes, everything. See: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation/Repository/Members-Serverguide
<GunnarHj> pleia2: You learn it by doing, basically. ;-)
<dsmythies> bkerensa: I spent many many 10s of hours on it last cycle and got nowhere.
<pleia2> I'd say we start with an outline of everything that needs to be done, and then expand from there
<knome> i think it would make sense if there was somebody assigned per cycle to make sure (with other documentation 'leaders') doc strings are in .pots on docstringfreeze and later, (help) upload packages
<bkerensa> dsmythies: I spent two years learning packaging ;)
<pleia2> packaging is hard
<bkerensa> and still don't have it all figured out
<knome> it's not a huge undertaking, but it would be soothing to know there is somebody to do it.
<pleia2> I landed my first package in debian in 2006 and I'm still lousy at it :)
<knome> obviously, this person should be somebody who has PPU for the docs packages.
<godbyk> I haven't packaged anything yet, but I'm willing to learn.
<bkerensa> thats why I think the developer guide and normal pathway is win because giving a watered down course or guide on packaging is going to end in people learning hanky and then dev member board is not going to approve those people PPU because they won't confident in their skills
<dsmythies> pakcaging aside, I have a pretty good handle on the rest of it.
<bkerensa> I want people to be successful in that
<bkerensa> yeah
<bkerensa> I highly encourage folks to dig up dholbach or slangaseks google hangout videos about anatomy of packaging
<pleia2> so maybe add some packaging links to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation/Repository/Members-Serverguide ?
<bkerensa> yes
<godbyk> bkerensa: That's fine, but there's a lot more to it than just creating a deb file. I want to document everything that needs to be done before and after the dev pathway you mentioned. Then we can just link to the dev pathway docs in the middle.
<pleia2> ok cool
<bkerensa> godbyk: sure lets nail that down before end of cycle
<dsmythies> No, to the generic page, the serverguide has not package version.
<pleia2> thanks bkerensa!
<pleia2> dsmythies: oh, right
<godbyk> bkerensa: Sounds like a plan. I'll send you and email and we can start working on that stuff. Thanks!
<pleia2> #topic Any other business
<dsmythies> this page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation/Repository/Members
<bkerensa> godbyk: and although I am often gone if you ever want to setup a time/day to learn some packaging I am happy to show you what I know
<pleia2> Anything else? (I hope not, this rounds up hour 3 of meetings for me today and I may killself)
<pleia2> ((just kidding))
<godbyk> bkerensa: Cool. Yeah, I'm sure we can find a time to get together and work on that.
<dsmythies> yes,
<belkinsa> knome, piny and ready
<knome> ta
<dsmythies> Is ther a "how to do a classroom session" somehwere?
<pleia2> dsmythies: yeah, sec
<godbyk> dsmythies: Great question!
<GunnarHj> I posted an application for ubuntu-core-docs. Glad if somebody get it some attention. ;-)
<pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom/Guidelines
<godbyk> It's been forever since I've done that stuff.. and I think it's changed since then.
<pleia2> and you can see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom for links to past classes
<dsmythies> pleia2: thanks.
<pleia2> to get an idea of what others folks have done
<dsmythies> I like to learn by example.
 * bkerensa must depart (epic winter storm here ttyl)
<godbyk> bkerensa: Take care and thanks for coming!
<dsmythies> Gunnar: I support your application, and was going to suggest it anyhow.
<GunnarHj> dsmythies: Thanks. :)
<godbyk> I'm glad to see the docs team member roster growing again.
<pleia2> yes, very exciting :)
<dsmythies> Yes +1
<GunnarHj> +1
<dsmythies> Gunnar: I didn't actually see any application though. (?)
<GunnarHj> dsmythies: On the list - maybe the wrong place?
<godbyk> GunnarHj: Apply to join the team on Launchpad.  Then we can approve it.
<dsmythies> I must have misssed it, sorry.
<dsmythies> Yes, like godbyk said.
<GunnarHj> Ok.
<pleia2> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2014-February/018664.html
<pleia2> +1 on list would be nice :)
<pleia2> (like was done for jack)
<dsmythies> opps, it went to my junk mail...
<dsmythies> yes, I like the idea of some on-list debate
<GunnarHj> Is that sufficient then?
<godbyk> dsmythies, pleia2: Agreed.
<dsmythies> Gunnar: Yes, I found out via the one earlier, that we (admins) can add someone without them applying.
<GunnarHj> dsmythies: Ok, thanks.
<pleia2> alright, thanks everyone
<pleia2> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Feb  6 23:08:15 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-doc/2014/ubuntu-doc.2014-02-06-22.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-doc/2014/ubuntu-doc.2014-02-06-22.00.html
<belkinsa> Not a problem.
<belkinsa> Thanks for the meeting.
<dsmythies> yes, thanks all.
<pleia2> belkinsa: congrats on membership! :D
<pleia2> (she just got it, during this meeting)
<godbyk> Thanks for chairing, pleia2.
<belkinsa> Thank you!
<knome> pleia2, thanks for chairing. hopefully it was your last meeting for today :)
<godbyk> belkinsa: Congratulations!
<GunnarHj> Thanks all, and congrats belkinsa!
<pleia2> no moar meetings
<pleia2> :)
<knome> yay!
<pleia2> now I get to work all night at $dayjob to catch up
<knome> >__<
<godbyk> pleia2: Time for me to get back to my day job, too. :)
<knome> time to get to my night job :P
#ubuntu-doc 2014-02-07
<belkinsa> slickymaster, ping.
<slickymaster> pong
#ubuntu-doc 2014-02-09
<dsmythies> godbyk: I am working on: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-docs/+bug/1270318 , which requires that I copy some missing files over from GNOME stuff. I will keep the tasks spreadsheet up to date as I go, so as (hopefully) not interfere with anything you might be doing.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1270318 in Ubuntu Documentation "some link destinations do not exist" [Undecided,New]
<godbyk> dsmythies: You should be okay if you're copying over media files.
#ubuntu-doc 2015-02-03
<dsmythies> There is supposed to be a doc team meeting in #ubuntu-meeting-2 in about 20 minutes. However, #ubuntu-meeting-2 seems to be broken. Can anyone confirm or deny it is broken? (no bots are present and such)
<pleia2> it looks fine to me
<pleia2> dsmythies: you don't seem to be joined there...
<dsmythies> pleia2: Thanks. I should learn to type. I did the same mistake 5 times....
<pleia2> aha :)
<dsmythies> pleia2: O.K. that's better. Now I better print your "Meetingology bot crash course" notes.
<pleia2> \o/
<imnichol> dsmythies, Sorry about that, had to go shovel my sidewalk
 * pleia2 was on a work conference call :\
<dsmythies> imnichol Oh, ha ha. I live in Canada on the west coast. My worry is that it is so warm my apple trees might come out of dorminate stage too early, leading to crop failure.
<imnichol> dsmythies, I understand that.  We've consistently had a bad few years with late frosts here in GMT-6
<imnichol> Lots of orchards lost their harvests
<dsmythies> In the meeting I was just wanting to know if you had anything to bring up or how we might otherwsie try to help.
<imnichol> Actually, there is a question I've had
<dsmythies> Go ahead
<imnichol> When I'm working on fixing a bug in the server guide, I branch from the project, make changes, and then push the changes
<imnichol> But when I want to fix a second bug, I can't figure out how to keep the modifications I made to fix the first bug from being part of the merge proposal for the second bug
<imnichol> So I end up using rm to delete the folder and then branch it again
<imnichol> Is there a way to not have to pull the project down a 2nd time?
<imnichol> And I'm sorry, pretty sure 100% of the terms that I used there were wrong
<dsmythies> imnichol: That is a really good question. I find bzr somewhat difficult to use and mysterious. I also get confused because I use git more often than bzr, although I have troubles with git also...
<imnichol> Ironic that my problem here seems to be a documentation issue.....
<dsmythies> anyway, to answer your question...
<dsmythies> I will sometimes keep a local "master" copy of the branch and then copy the entire thing to make working copies. You can also checkout the original bzr branch number and then continue with that. I'm actually hoping someone else might chime in on this.
<imnichol> I need to find a bzr cheatsheet that I can put up next to my desk
<dsmythies> me also, but I do find the man pages useful.
<imnichol> Ahah http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/latest/en/_static/en/bzr-en-quick-reference.pdf
<dsmythies> imnichol: I am out of time for now. I'll do some experiments with "bzr revno" and get back to you. It might not be today.
<imnichol> No prob, take your time :)
<imnichol> Thanks for your help
<pmatulis> imnichol: the simplest way is to just make a new branch for the second proposal.  otherwise you will need to just make the 2nd change, push again, and in the merge proposal you will be fixing two things.  fine if those 2 things are not disparate.  can be frowned upon if they are, but still acceptable
<imnichol> pmatulis, are you talking about deleting the folder where the branch is and then branching it again?
<pmatulis> imnichol: no need to delete. just create another one
<pmatulis> imnichol: it's good to keep a record of things on your filesystem
<imnichol> pmatulis, can I branch over it?
<imnichol> I like to keep my ~ clean
<pmatulis> imnichol: nope
<pmatulis> imnichol: you should have a top level directory.  put branches/contributions under it
<pmatulis> ~/serverguide/14.04/{branch_blah,branch_foo,branch_bar}
#ubuntu-doc 2015-02-04
<knome> people around?
<knome> cprofitt, ping :)
<dsmythies> I'm here.
<knome> that works ;)
<knome> no empty wall to talk to
<knome> so i'd like to get the teams feedback on a particular thing:
<knome> (this will take some time, wait patiently...)
<knome> some days ago, i made an edit to the PAE page on the community wiki to make the landing page for that clearer
<knome> the page: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PAE
<knome> after the changed i made: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PAE?action=recall&rev=43
<knome> the page got reverted soon back to what it was (see ~the current format) shortly after
<dsmythies> looking at first link now.
<knome> i've been in touch with the person who apparently created and worked on that page for the longest time
<knome> but we haven't reached any kind of agreement and i haven't got many arguments why we should keep the "original" formatting
<knome> note: in my version, the instructions itself would be under PentiumM, which i also slightly edited (that's partly different from my edit now as wel)
<knome> since the documentation team oversees the community wiki, what do people think about the two different approaches?
<knome> i guess i'd especially would like feedback from the wiki admins (other than me)
<knome> but any feedback would be appreciated
<knome> i'm feel like i'm kind of disqualified to drop any final decision on the issue as a participant in the argument...
<dsmythies> I need some time (and am not a wiki admin). You might also want to ask on the e-mail list.
<knome> for completeness, the PentiumM page as it would appear on "my revision": https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PAE/PentiumM?action=recall&rev=10
<knome> dsmythies, ack, i know you aren't, that's why i pinged those admins:)
<knome> and fwiw, i'm not in a hurry by any means, take your time
<knome> i'm an irc person (and not subbed to the list right now...), so i thought i'd check this one first
<knome> to see what the general opinion was and if there was any kind of consensus
<dsmythies> knome: I didn't know you are not subbed to the list. In general I'm not an IRC person, I just didn't get off yet after the meeting earlier. I actually don't understand why IRC is so popluar, but accpet that it is.
<knome> heh, different people prefer different kind of communication methods :)
<knome> tbf, email is ok is the signal to noise ratio is good. on the docs list, it wasn't considering all the other noise i also have incoming :)
<knome> and i'm not exaggerating when i say that connecting on IRC was one of my first actions ever when we got our first broadband
<knome> after that, it's always just felt the natural choice for me
<dsmythies> knome: I'm finding this a little difficult, as I observe good stuff in both approaches. I'm going to ponder, while I do something else that is pressing, then read them again. (I should'a kept quite earlier (just joking))
<knome> heh.
<knome> probably.
<knome> i'm open to suggestions in merging those two as well
<knome> i mean... doing some kind of compromise.
<knome> the feedback and thought is very appreciated btw, it's too easy to get biased... i should've asked this earlier.
<dsmythies> knome: Are you aware of the dicussion thread over on Ubuntu forums? http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2263647
<knome> dsmythies, nope.
<dsmythies> imnichol: I haven't forgotten about your issue, but have run into a bit of time crunch. What you want to do is trivial with GIT. I defer to what pmatulis said for BZR.
<imnichol> dsmythies, appreciated!
#ubuntu-doc 2015-02-05
<pmatulis> dsmythies: hi, are you going to send the cloud docs announcement as planned?  i can do that now if you want
<dsmythies> pmatulis: I'll do it.
#ubuntu-doc 2015-02-06
<pmatulis> dsmythies: i'd like to wipe the agenda.  is there anything you in particular would like to keep?
<pmatulis> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/MeetingAgenda
<dsmythies> pmatulis: You can go to a clean slate.
<pmatulis> dsmythies: alright
#ubuntu-doc 2016-02-08
<melodie> hi
<melodie> is there a #ubuntu-hardware chan of some kind?
<pmatulis> melodie: i don't think so
<melodie> hi pmatulis
<pmatulis> melodie: hi, how are you?
<melodie> hi pmatulis well, thanks! and you?
<pmatulis> melodie: i am well today thank you
<pmatulis> melodie: maybe a kernel channel will help you? are you looking for supported hardware info?
<melodie> I'm looking for insights about i5 and i7 under Ubuntu (especially Trusty)
<melodie> yes, right
<melodie> i5 660
<melodie> i5 6600
<melodie> i5 6600K
<melodie> i7 7600 and i7 7600K
<melodie> Skylake
<melodie> then #ubuntu-kernel chan?
<melodie> I guess I will try
<pmatulis> good luck melodie
<melodie> thanks
#ubuntu-doc 2016-02-13
<k1l_> hi, a user in #ubuntu reported a broken link in https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/FromUSBStickQuick#Start_the_Ubuntu_installer    the pendrivelinux link seems to be mixed with link and description
<k1l_> would have edited it but its an Immutable Page
<pmatulis> k1l_: thanks. the wiki has been read-only since the beginning of January due to a rash of vandalism
#ubuntu-doc 2017-02-06
<AMartin> Hi guys, where should I write or with whom to speak if I just want to add one or 2 lines to some ubuntu wiki page, is it here perhaps?
<AMartin> well, anyway, if any of you would be so kind, here's a website which is well written, but one thing that is missing when burning a blu-ray in k3b is to set filesystem to UDF. Otherwise it doesn't work. Please add accordingly: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CdDvd/Burning#Blu-Ray_Burning
#ubuntu-doc 2017-02-07
<hmhm> i would like to edit https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AspireOne/AO751h
<hmhm> there is a EMGD driver for 14.04+ with ubuntu packages
<hmhm> https://github.com/EMGD-Community/intel-binaries-linux
<hmhm> repos at https://launchpad.net/%7Ethopiekar/+archive/emgd
<hmhm> the pages at
<hmhm> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardwareSupportComponentsVideoCardsPoulsbo/
<hmhm> and
<hmhm> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PoulsboObsoleteDrivers
<hmhm> are also out of date, i hope they could be updated also
#ubuntu-doc 2018-02-09
<Guest24983> Hi guys ! I have a question, will ubuntu 18.04 come with LibreOffice 6?
